# Lectures Part 2

LECTURES  PART 2 OF 2



741215SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.3

-

Bombay, December 15, 1974



*Nitāi: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Soul, and He has no beginning. He is transcendental to the material modes of nature and beyond the existence of this material world. He is perceivable everywhere because He is self*-effulgent, and by His self-effulgent luster the entire creation is maintained."



Prabhupāda:



anādir ātmā puruṣo

nirguṇaḥ prakṛteḥ paraḥ

*pratyag*-dhāmā svayaṁ-jyotir

viśvaṁ yena samanvitam

[SB 3.26.3]



*In the previous verse we had already discussed, jñānaṁ puruṣasya ātma*-darśanam. Puruṣasya, the living entity is also called puruṣa, and the Supreme Lord is also called puruṣa. So real puruṣa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are not puruṣa; *we are prakṛti, living entities. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. After explaining this jaḍa-prakṛti, or the dull matter... That is called jaḍa-prakṛti-bhūmi, earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and ego. These are all jaḍa-prakṛti, material. Sometimes it is misunderstood, "Mind is spiritual." No, mind is material. Intelligence, that is also material. And this false ego with designation, that is, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," so many designations, "I am cat," "I am dog," "I am human being," this is also material conception. I am neither dog, neither cat, neither demigod, nor human being. I am ātmā. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.



*So there are two kinds of puruṣa: one puruṣa in the material world, as we are... We are artificially claiming to be puruṣa. Puruṣa means enjoyer. The karmīs, they are trying to enjoy this material world. They are working day and night very hard to enjoy. That is means puruṣābhimāna. Actually, we are not puruṣa. We are prakṛti, as it is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "Above this material prakṛti-earth, water, air, fire-there is another prakṛti," Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "which is parā-prakṛti." And what is that? Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. Jīva-bhūta, that living entity, that is superior prakṛti. This is inferior prakṛti, matter, and jīva is superior prakṛti. But the jīva, under false ego, he is trying to enjoy this material prakṛti. Yayā, "by the superior prakṛti," yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat.

This jagat, this material world, is existing on the spiritual prakṛti. You can calculate what is your this body. This body is existing on the spiritual body. Just like your shirt. The shirt is existing on your actual hand. The shirt has got a hand because you have got hand. So matter is impersonal. But because the superior prakṛti, jīva, he is person, therefore the matter appears like a person. Because I have got hands and legs, therefore this cloth has got hands and legs. Otherwise the cloth has no hands and legs; *it is impersonal. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. This body is just like dress. Just like your coat has got hand, your pant has got leg, but either the pant or coat has no leg, no hand. Because you have got leg and hand, therefore the coat has got leg and hand. You can... Everyone can understand. It is very easy. So the original, the spirit soul, has got form. Therefore the cloth has been cut into form. It is very easy to understand. Otherwise how you get the form? And in this form the spirit soul is trying to enjoy this material world. But it is not puruṣa. It cannot enjoy. That is false. That is illusion. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8].

*So by our desire we get a particular type of form. It may be human being, it may be demigod, it may be elephant, it may be cat, it may be dog, it may be tree*-in this way, in different forms, 8,400,000 different forms, we are trying to enjoy this material world. This is called material conditional life. Because we are failing to understand ātma-darśana. Because the purpose is ātma-darśana. Jñānaṁ niḥśreyasārthāya puruṣasya ātma-darśanam. Ātmā, one should see his real identification: "What I am?" That is the inquiry of a human being. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That when I understand that "I am not this body; *I am Brahman," then we should go on inquiring about further about Brahman: "What is the form of Brahman? What is Parabrahman? What is the relationship between Parabrahman and the Brahman? Why Brahman has come to this material world and he has got this material body? This material body is finishable, temporary, and Brahman is eternal. Why this conjunction?" These are brahma*-jijñāsā. This is Vedānta-sūtra, brahma-jijñāsā.

*So this is jñāna. But we are wasting our time*-this jñāna, that jñāna. But real jñāna, there is no. We are being educated, so-called scientific education. Just like one is studying the earth, soil expert. One is studying the water. One is, chemical-"What are the chemicals composition of water? What is the chemical composition...?" In this way we are acquiring jñāna; *but that is not jñāna. That is called technology, śilpa*-naipuṇya. In Sanskrit it is called śilpa-naipuṇya. That is not jñāna. Real jñāna is ātma-darśanam. That is jñāna. So... But we are wasting our time temporary, śilpa-darśanam. But ātma-darśanam we want. That is real jñāna.

*So that ātma*-darśanam is described here, everywhere, in all the Vedic literatures. The first ātma-darśana is anādi, anādi. There is no beginning. We have got experience, beginning. Every one of us, we have got experience that this body has a beginning. From the father and mother we got this body in a small pealike form. And the first, after the sex, the two secretion emulsified, and it forms into a pealike body. And that pealike body develops. And as first there becomes nine holes, these nine holes... That is not manifested, but first of all there are holes: the nostrils, the ear, the mouth, the rectum, genital. In this way a body is formed. So body is formed upon the spirit soul, not that automatically forms. Unless there is spirit... A seed... A seed fructifies in suitable condition into big tree because the soul takes shelter within the seed. If you fry the seed, no tree will come out. Similarly, the matter is grown up on the spirit. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it says, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat: [Bg. 7.5] "The jagat, the material world, is existing on the spirit soul." Similarly, this spirit soul, as our body, your body, that is also..., this body is resting in the spirit soul. Similarly, this gigantic body of this universe, that is also resting on the gigantic spirit. That is Kṛṣṇa. Not that equal. We are very small, and God is great.

*So the great body, this universal body, as Kṛṣṇa showed universal body to Arjuna, so it is possible for Kṛṣṇa to show the universal body, virāḍ*-rūpa. You cannot show. You cannot show. It was Arjuna's request to exhibit the virāḍ-rūpa because Arjuna knew it that "Because I am accepting Kṛṣṇa God, so many God will be there later on. A man will claim to become God. But as I am requesting Kṛṣṇa to show the virāḍ-rūpa, similarly, if some fool accepted the another fool as God, he should request him, 'Please show your virāḍ-rūpa.' Then accept him. Otherwise don't accept." So God has virāḍ-rūpa. So both God and we are, living entity, are of the same quality. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi means so 'ham. These words, Vedic words, are there to indicate that "Qualitatively, I am as good as God. He is spirit soul; I am also spirit soul. He has got creative power; I have got creative power. He has got senses; I have got senses." Everything just similar, facsimile. In the Bible it is said, "Man is made after God." Is it not said like that? That means God has exactly the same form. And therefore man is made also, the same form. So in this way both God and the living entities, they are anādi. Anādi, there is no beginning.

*Then in the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said, na jāyate. Na jāyate means anything which is born, it has got beginning. But living entity or Kṛṣṇa, or God, they have no beginning. Kṛṣṇa is also beginningless, and we are also beginningless. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is combination of small particles or molecules of bright substance. So, so long the sun is there, the sunshine is there. Sunshine means the combination of the bright molecules, molecular part. Similarly, we are parts of the brahmajyoti. Brahmajyoti means combination of unlimited living entities. Svayaṁ-jyotiḥ, it is said. Svayaṁ-jyotir viśvam. Svayaṁ-jyotir viśvaṁ yena samanvitam. That jyoti is spread all over the universe, all over the universe. So the living entities are there just like sunshine is spread all over the universe. And what is the sunshine? A combination of small bright particles. Similarly, we are also bright, jyoti. And that is realization, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that "I am also small particle jyoti, and the Supreme Brahman is also jyoti..." Yasya prabhā [Bs. 5.40]. And what is this prabhā, this prabhā, this jyoti? It is Kṛṣṇa's bodily rays.

*Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The jyoti is coming, brahmajyoti is coming, from Kṛṣṇa's body. Therefore you will find in the picture of Kṛṣṇa there is some jyoti on His face. That is expanded. That is brahmajyoti. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. On account of that jyoti, brahmajyoti... Just like on account of the sunshine all the planets are resting and rotating. That is scientific. Due to the heat of the sunshine, all the planets in the sky, they are rotating. It is due to sunshine. Similarly, this brahmāṇḍa, this universe, not only one universe, but millions of universes, they are also rotating in the brahmajyoti. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. And what is that jagad-aṇḍa? Koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. In each brahmāṇḍa, in each universe, there are unlimited number of planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhā [Bs. 5.40]. Vasudhā means planets or globes. This earthy planet is called vasudhā. Aśeṣa, not one, but aśeṣa, unlimited. Aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti. Vibhūti means each planet is saturated with different types of atmosphere. Just like the moon planet. The scientist says that it is below zero, two hundred degrees. It is very cold. That's a fact. Because it is very cold, therefore the shining from so much distance in the evening*-we feel very comfortable. Not in the sunshine. God's arrangement is so nice. You require both. The sunshine also you require, and the moonshine also you require. If simply there is sunshine, then you die. And if there will be simply moonshine, then you will also die. Both.

*But there is another planetary system. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na tad bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ [Bg. 15.6]. There is another..., paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20], another nature where, yatra, na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ, there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonshine. Because the each planet is svayaṁ-jyoti. Here we have got one planet, the sun planet, jyoti. But there, in the Vaikuṇṭha, all the planets, Vaikuṇṭha planets... Vaikuṇṭha means vigata-kuṇṭha. Kuṇṭha means anxiety. Here, in this planet, you are full of anxiety. And if you are transferred to the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, there is no anxiety. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12) simply ānanda, no anxiety. Here you must suffer anxiety, asad-grahāt, on account of accepting this asat. Asat means untruth or temporary, which will not exist. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction, that this materialistic individuality, on account of accepting this asad-grahāt, asat, not permanent, not true, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Always full of anxiety. So in the material world you are trying to be free of anxiety. That is not possible. That is not... Therefore it is required, ātma-darśanam. Jñānam ātma-darśanam. Jñānaṁ niḥśreyasārthāya puruṣasya ātma-darśanam. First of all you know what is your position. Just like when one man is diseased. The physician first of all diagnose that what is the disease; then he gives medicine. Similarly, first of all you ascertain what is your constitutional position. You try to understand. That is the beginning everywhere. That is Vedic literature.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the beginning, the first instruction is that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara... [Bg. 2.13]. Asmin dehe, there is dehī, the proprietor of the... So we do not understand that, and we become very expert in reading Bhagavad-gītā. This is the first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Therefore ātma-darśanam. First of all, you try to understand what you are. You are this body or something else? That is ātma-darśanam. I am not body. That's a fact. I am spirit soul. But I have become bodily conscious on account of loss of knowledge, ajñāna, ajñāna. Therefore guru means,

*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*It is the guru's business to operate the blind cataractic eye..., eyeball, giving eyesight. So how it is done? Now, jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Just like in the darkness you cannot see. But if there is lamp, you can see. So jñāna means knowledge. You must know what is your position. There are śāstra. You read Bhagavad*-gītā, try to understand your position. That is ātma-darśanam. Ātma-darśanam. Everything is there. Ātma-darśanam.



*So first ātma*-darśanam is that anādir ātmā. Ātmā. The soul and the Supersoul, both of them. We must always know that soul and Supersoul, īśvara and Parameśvara... So ātmā... Ātmā means Bhagavān; *ātmā means this individual ātmā. So both of them are anādi. But we have got experience ādi, birth and death. So that is not ātma-darśanam. You have to understand that there is no ādi, there is no beginning. Anādir ātmā puruṣaḥ. Puruṣa, that, either the soul or the Supersoul, both of them are puruṣa. Puruṣa means having form and having the desire to enjoy, enjoy blissful life. That is called puruṣa. Puruṣa is always desiring to enjoy. And prakṛti is enjoyable. That is the distinction between puruṣa and prakṛti. But ātmā-Paramātmā is puruṣa, and the jīvātmā is prakṛti. Then nirguṇaḥ, nirguṇaḥ. Therefore Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa, traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna: "My dear Arjuna, you try to be nirguṇa." This all Vedic knowledge or any knowledge-Veda means knowledge*-that is traiguṇya, of this material world, having...

*Material world means the three guṇas, sattva, rajo, tamo*-guṇa. So one has to become above these three guṇas. That is ātma-darśanam, above three guṇa. How to become above traiguṇya? Very easy. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that,

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Guṇān, these guṇa, samatītya, samyag-rūpeṇa atītya perfectly overcoming. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Immediately he is situated in the Brahman platform. So ātmā is nirguṇa. Nirguṇa stage means when you are engaged in devotional service, that is your nirguṇa stage. Devotional service is nirguṇa. All other services or activities... We are rendering service. Either you are rendering service in office, or to your family, or to your cat, or to your dog, or to your government, or to your society*-you must be giving some service. There is no escape. But that is saguṇa service, under these material laws. So you have to give nirguṇa service. If you give nirguṇa, then you become nirguṇa.



Then what is that nirguṇa? When you render service to Kṛṣṇa.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*It is not difficult at all. You can become immediately nirguṇa as soon as you engage in the service of the Lord. And so long you keep yourself in that position, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you remain nirguṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Saguṇa means māyā. Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante: "One who surrenders to Me," māyām etāṁ taranti, "no māyā touching, no in contamination of māyā." Māyām etāṁ taranti. There is nirguṇa. Nirguṇa means be engaged in the devotional, loving devotional service of Kṛṣṇa. That is... Then you are svarūpa*-darśana, ātma-darśanam. That is your ātma-darśanam, nirguṇa. Prakṛteḥ paraḥ. As Kṛṣṇa is prakṛteḥ paraḥ... Prakṛteḥ... Prakṛti means this material world, and paraḥ means transcendental. So prakṛteḥ paraḥ. You cannot serve Kṛṣṇa unless you also become prakṛteḥ paraḥ, not within this material world.



*So to accept your service, to make you nirguṇa, prakṛteḥ paraḥ, Kṛṣṇa accepts this arcā*-vigraha to accept your service. Kṛṣṇa is standing here, you offering, and He is ready to accept your service. "No, I am very poor man." No, the poor, rich, He doesn't concern. Ahaituky apratihatā. Service rendering to Kṛṣṇa cannot be checked in any material circumstance. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means it cannot be checked. Any position, you can do. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Even if you are born in the low-grade family, pāpa-yoni, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyās te 'pi yānti parām, everyone is delivered. These things are there.

*So this is ātma*-darśana, that how to become nirguṇa, how to become transcendental, prakṛteḥ paraḥ. Pratyag-dhāmā, pratyag-dhāmā, all-pervading. Of course, we cannot become all-pervading. But we are limited all-pervading. Kṛṣṇa is actual all-pervading. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]. In the chapter "Kṣetra and Kṣetra-jña," "The Body and the Proprietor of the Body," Kṛṣṇa say that the soul is kṣetra-jña and the body is kṣetra. Actually, you are doing. Kṣetra means just like you work in the field. If you have got one acre of land, you do your tilling, agricultural work, in that. If you have got 100 acres of land... So similarly, we have got a particular type of field of activities, this body. I can do something; *you can do something else. So this is kṣetra*-kṣetra-jña. But this is... So far individual living entity, soul, is concerned, he is also all-pervading. All-pervading means within this limited body. So long I am present within this body, anywhere of the body I feel, I am present here. You pinch; you feel, "Yes, there is pain." That means I am present there. I am present there. This is called consciousness.

*But there is another consciousness. So don't mix it up, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That consciousness*-sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: that Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. Sarva-kṣetreṣu. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ ca aham: "I am also kṣetra-jña. I am also soul, but I am Supersoul." How? Now, sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "I am present in everyone's body." I am not present in your body. You are not present in my body. I am present in my body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. But Kṛṣṇa is present, everyone's body. That is the distinction between Kṛṣṇa and me. You don't make one. How? You cannot understand what is going on pains and plea..., in my body. I can understand. Then how you are present in me? How you have become Kṛṣṇa? How you have become God? This is the God's qualification. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu [Bg. 13.3]. If you can understand everyone's pains and pleasure, then you are God. If you cannot say what is my pains and pleasure and you come as God, then I am not going to accept. What kind of God you are? God must be present everywhere. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. That is God. That is one of the God's feature. Māṁ ca kaścit... There is another verse, that "I know everyone's position, but nobody knows Me." That is the distinction between living entity and God. God knows everything, but we do not know God. We do not know God.

*So we must always know. So when it is said, pratyag*-dhāmā svayaṁ-jyotiḥ, it is described the Paramātmā, or Supersoul. Kṛṣṇa is Paramātmā. Paramātmā's business is to witness, witness, to see our activities, because He is within our body. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. So He is, He is so kind, He is... That is described in Upaniṣad, that the two birds are sitting in one tree. One bird is eating the fruit of the tree, and the other bird is simply witnessing. That witness bird is God, Kṛṣṇa, and the eating bird is ātmā. So He is giving chance, as we want. Actually, Kṛṣṇa wants that "You don't try to eat forbidden apple, the, this apple tree, but You give up this. You come to Me." That Kṛṣṇa wants. But because we want to eat, we want to enjoy this material world, He is so kind, He is sitting along with us and giving us... Just like you sometimes take your dog, and whatever the dog wants, you allow him to do, out of love; *similarly, whatever we wanting to do, Kṛṣṇa is allowing, "All right." Kṛṣṇa's real desire is "You rascal. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]," but I'll not do. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is giving me all chances: "Do whatever you like. But if... You reap the result. If you hear My word, then you give up this. You come again. Because your position is prakṛteḥ paraḥ. Your position, My position, is prakṛteḥ paraḥ. Your position is prakṛteḥ paraḥ. Why you are rotting in this, within this material world?" In this way, if we understand our position and God's position and our relationship with God, in this way, if we become enlightened, jñānam, then ātma-darśanam. Ātma-darśanam, that means self-realization.

*So this human life is meant for self*-realization, not simply wasting time like cats and dogs, eating, sleeping, mating, and... No. That is not human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Everyone should be interested himself, God, and his relationship. Then the life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



741216SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.4

-

Bombay, December 16, 1974



Nitāi: "(As His pastimes, that Supreme Personality of Godhead, the greatest of the great,) accepted the subtle material energy, which is invested with the three material modes of nature and which is related with Viṣṇu."



Prabhupāda:



sa eṣa prakṛtiṁ sūkṣmāṁ

daivīṁ guṇamayīṁ vibhuḥ

yadṛcchayaivopagatām

abhyapadyata līlayā

[SB 3.26.4]



*So Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as He says that sambhavāmy ātma*-māyayā... [Bg. 4.6]. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. Kṛṣṇa and the living entities, both of them are the same quality, but when the living entities come in this material world, he is forced by the prakṛti, by the material nature. But when Kṛṣṇa comes, He is not forced, but by His free will, yadṛcchayā upagatām... Yadṛcchayaivopagatām abhyapadyata līlayā.



Sometimes the Māyāvādī philosophers, they also take the living entities within this material world as līlā. That is not līlā. Līlā refers to the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Never... Nobody says that the living entity has come in this material world for līlā. At least, the Vaiṣṇava philosophers do not agree that. It is contradictory. Kṛṣṇa said that "When I come..."

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya...

[Bg. 4.7]



We should not accept Kṛṣṇa's coming within this material world and our coming in this material world as the same process. Kṛṣṇa comes as He is. He does not change. And because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, almighty, even if He comes within this material world, the material qualities do not affect Him. That is īśanam, īśanam.



Just like a physician, a doctor, medical man. He goes to the hospital to treat the infected patients. So he is not affected by the infection. He has got such precautionary measures, or he is so equipped with, that he is not infected with the disease. Those who are weak... That is stated in the *Bhāgavatam*: etad īśanam īśasya. That is īśa. Īśa means the controller. Rather, if something infectious come in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it becomes purified. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya [SB 10.33.29], it is said. Another example can be given: just like the sun. The sunshine absorbs water even from urine or any infectious place. Any filthy place, the sun absorbs the water. But the sun is not infected, because it is very powerful. Similarly, if you try to absorb water from the urine, then you will be infected. That is called etad īśasya īśanam.

*Even those who are devotees, they are not infected by the three modes of material nature. We have many times repeated this verse of Bhagavad*-gītā:

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



So even ordinary living entities, those who are devotees, they are not infected by the three modes of material nature. How we can expect the Supreme Lord can be infected by the three modes of material nature? That is not possible. This is not... Even from ordinary argument, it cannot be accepted.



Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's incarnation... There are hundred and thousands of incarnation:

*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa has innumerable expansions, rāmādi. Rāma, Lord Rāmacandra, is also Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā. Kalā means expansion of the expansion. Just like... I have given this example many times: the original candle, and you ignite another candle. That is second candle, and from the second, from the third; *from the third, the fourth. In this way, all the candles, although you say, "This is first candle, second candle, third candle, fourth candle," but they are all equally powerful. So far candle*-power is concerned, they are equally the same. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, Kṛṣṇa is the origin, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], the origin, person, ādi-puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Still, the expansion of Kṛṣṇa... Just like the first expansion is Balarāma. Then Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha. Then Nārāyaṇa. Then again Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha. Then Mahā-Viṣṇu. Then, from Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. From Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu to Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. From Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu there are innumerable expansions, Paramātmā expansion. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So in this way there is... The Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says, "Expansion of Kṛṣṇa are so many, just like incessant waves in the river or in the ocean."



*So that is one status of expansion. And another expansion is the jīva*-tattva. We are also expansion. In the Varāha Purāṇa it is said, svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. The vibhinnāṁśa expansion, they are also innumerable, jīvas. We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. But svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. So the vibhinnāṁśa expansion, they are minute, and the svāṁśa expansion, they are vibhu, unlimited. So in this way we have to understand the distinction between svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. When svāṁśa expansion comes within this material world, He remains vibhu, or prabhu, and the vibhinnāṁśa expansion is always aṇu, very small, or servant. One is prabhu, and the other is servant. One is vibhu and the other is aṇu.

*So the aṇu, vibhinnāṁśa jīva, when he comes within this material world, he becomes entrapped or his that jyoti... In the previous verse you have studied jyoti. Vibhinnāṁśa living entity, we are also jyoti. Just like spark. The original fire is also fire, and the spark fire, that is also fire. Quality, the same, but a spark, when falls down on your cloth, it can burn a little portion. Similarly, if the whole fire comes, then you become burned into pieces. The same example again: the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is combination small particle of shining molecules. Similarly, we are also the same spark. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate [Bs. 5.46]. So Kṛṣṇa and His expansion, They are all the same. And we, vibhinnāṁśa jīva, we are very small. Therefore our condition is different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not infected by the material qualities but, we become infected. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma*-phale spṛhā [Bg. 4.14], it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā. The activities in this material world, Kṛṣṇa remains unaffected, but we, being a small particle, we become infected by the qualities: tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ.

*So those who are too much infected by these material qualities, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. They think that "Kṛṣṇa and we are the same." But that is not the fact. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because Kṛṣṇa comes as human being, we may think that "Kṛṣṇa is as good as I am." No, that should not be... Kṛṣṇa is vibhu, and we are aṇu. Kṛṣṇa is master, and we are servant. That is our eternal relationship. We should not forget that. And sa eṣa prakṛtiṁ sūkṣmāṁ daivīṁ guṇamayīṁ vibhuḥ. Prakṛti, prakṛti, this prakṛti is also Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa, the supreme powerful, He can utilize the prakṛti as He likes. He is not controlled by prakṛti. But we are controlled by prakṛti. Because He is vibhu... Vibhu means the great. So you cannot say great māyā, or prakṛti is greater than Kṛṣṇa. You cannot say. Then your God is not great. If something is greater than God, then you cannot say God is great. If you accept this, that there is no more greater identity than Kṛṣṇa, then you can say, "Kṛṣṇa is great, or..." Kṛṣṇa cannot be entrapped. Nūnaṁ mahatān tatra. If you are smaller, then you can be overpowered by the great. If your strength is lesser than another man... Say, two wrestler. If one wrestler is more powerful, he can defeat the other wrestler.

*So therefore, here it is said that vibhuḥ... Kṛṣṇa is vibhuḥ, and if He is covered by māyā... As the Māyāvādī philosopher thinks, that "When God comes within this material world, He is also covered by māyā..." He is not covered by māyā. If māyā is greater than Kṛṣṇa, then māyā can cover Kṛṣṇa. But that is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means... Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. If one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, then he becomes free from the clutches of māyā. So how Kṛṣṇa can be caught by māyā? This is contradictory. If anyone surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he becomes free from the influence of māyā, simply by surrendering. Then how Kṛṣṇa can be influenced by māyā? It is common sense. By surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, by becoming a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you become free from the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante. Simply by surrendering. Māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. So never think that Kṛṣṇa... The Māyāvādī thinks like that, that "We are one, Kṛṣṇa and we. We are one." Yes, we are one*-in quality. The same thing: just like the fire and the spark, one in burning capacity. Even a small spark of the fire, it can burn. So we are one in the spiritual quality, but in quantity, we are different. Same example: vibhu and aṇu. This is very nice verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14].

In another verse is there,

*bhakti*-yogena manasi

samyak praṇihite 'male

apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ

*māyāṁ ca tad*-apāśrayam

[SB 1.7.4]



*Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva, when he was instructed by his spiritual master Nārada Muni to write Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, at that time, by bhakti-yoga meditation, he could see the Supreme Personality of Godhead and this māyā also. But it is said, māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam. Māyā is situated in the back side, back side, without any influence upon Kṛṣṇa, apāśrayam, under the control. So māyā is always controlled. Kṛṣṇa is the controller of māyā.



*In another place, in the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā is the material energy, and she has got immense power. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktiḥ. She is controlling this creation or this whole universe, sṛṣṭi, and sthiti, its maintenance, and pralaya. Three things she is controlling. She is so powerful. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. The durgā-śakti, material energy, she is so powerful, but it is working chāyeva, just like shadow. Shadow has no independent capacity; *it is dependent on the substance. Substance and shadow. So Kṛṣṇa is the substance, and the power derived from Kṛṣṇa, partially exhibited by the durgā-śakti. In the Upaniṣad also it is said, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of God, He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaḥ. Nobody is equal to Him. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcit: [Bg. 7.7] "There is nothing superior than Me, the Supreme." In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. That is the Supreme Truth.

*So all the śāstras will say that Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He has got different expansions unlimited. Although Kṛṣṇa is one, but He can expand Himself into many, many millions. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam. And each rūpam is acting in some universe. Just like at this time, here, you find darkness in Bombay, but the sun is present in all his different phases all over the world. Sun rises in the morning at, say, seven o'clock. So this seven o'clock to next seven o'clock, in the evening seven o'clock, you will find, if you immediately take information, somewhere it is seven o'clock, somewhere it is twelve o'clock, somewhere it is six o'clock, somewhere it is... All the time formula of the sun is present, although we are seeing there is no sun. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is present throughout the whole universe in some feature. In one universe you will find Kṛṣṇa is taking birth, Janmāṣṭamī. In some universe you will see Kṛṣṇa is playing with the cowherd boys. Somewhere... In this way. Therefore it is called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā means the janmāṣṭamī-līlā is going on permanently somewhere or other. Therefore it is called līlayā, yadṛcchayā.

*So this is a great science, Kṛṣṇa science, kṛṣṇa*-tattva. So we have to learn from the authorized Vedic literature about Kṛṣṇa. And that is required in human life. Because if we simply understand the truth about Kṛṣṇa, janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9], which are divine transcendental, yo jānāti tattvataḥ, if you try to understand and if you become fortunate to understand the divine nature of Kṛṣṇa's līlā, then you become liberated, immediately: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. The Sāṅkhya philosophy of Kapiladeva is explained in this way to understand Kṛṣṇa.

*So Kṛṣṇa, yadṛcchayaivopagatām abhyapadyata līlayā. Kṛṣṇa is līlā, and our coming here is not līlā. We are forced. We are forced. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Kṛṣṇa's body is not material. Even if we think it is material, still, it is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Just like one can argue that "Here is Kṛṣṇa's form. It is made of stone. How it is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha?" But if you know the nature of Kṛṣṇa, even He appears as stone, still He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. How? Because the stone is also energy of Kṛṣṇa. That is said in the Upaniṣad:

na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate

*na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate...

[Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]



*So the stone is also another energy of Kṛṣṇa, another energy of Kṛṣṇa. And Śrī Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. He can utilize His energy in anyway. He can utilize His energy in any way. Just like an electrician*-he knows how to utilize electricity for the refrigerator and the heater, although the heating process is just opposite of the cooling process. We see opposite. Similarly, material nature and spiritual nature, just opposite, but the same way: the electricity utilize for heating and electricity utilized for cooling. The energy is the same, but it is the manipulation of the engineer which can turn heat into cold and cold into heat. So therefore, for Kṛṣṇa there is no material nature. Everything is spiritual nature. Even Kṛṣṇa appears as material form, as stone, as matter, still, one who knows Kṛṣṇa, he can derive Kṛṣṇa's favor from any form. Otherwise the devotees are recommended to worship the Deity in the temple.



*So do you think that the ācāryas and the śāstra have advised them to waste their time by worshiping a stone? It is all recommended by the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas. Just like Rāmānujācārya. He established hundreds of temples all over India, Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa temple especially, the Rāmānuja-sampradāya. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya established hundreds of temples of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Big, big ācārya. Do you mean to say they did mistake? As some people of our India, they say, "There is no need of worshiping in the temple." No. Why not need? Ācāryopāsanam, that is recommended, jñāna. Ācārya... Ācāryas, they have established temples, many hundreds of thousands of temples, of Viṣṇu mandira.

So this should be worshiped. Otherwise you cannot... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you do not follow ācāryas, then...

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*The ācāryas are tattva*-darśī. They know how to make you devotee. Therefore they have prescribed, and Kṛṣṇa in His any condition, life, He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Unless Kṛṣṇa becomes available to your service, then how you can serve? We have, at the present moment, no eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy, He has appeared in His original form just to receive or accept service from you. You cannot serve Kṛṣṇa in His virāḍ*-rūpa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has come to you to accept your service in this metal or stone form. But He is not metal or stone. This is called kṛṣṇa-tattva-jñāna.



*Arcye viṣṇau śilā*-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. These things are forbidden. You cannot... Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīḥ. Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, the same thing-if you think that this mūrti is made of stone, śilā-dhīḥ, or Śālagrāma-śilā, if you think it is śilā or stone, this is nārakī-buddhiḥ. This is not recommended. It is... Don't think. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. And those who are guru, spiritual master, Vaiṣṇava, if you think of them that he is ordinary human being, that is forbidden. Gāṅga-jala or caraṇāmṛta, if you think ordinary water, that is forbidden. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. Vaiṣṇava, who has become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, if you think that he belongs to this caste, he belongs to that caste, that is also forbidden. Nārakī-buddhiḥ. These things are nārakī-buddhiḥ. At least, those who do not know how Kṛṣṇa can be transcendental in all His features... Therefore we are forbidden, "Don't take like that." It is a fact that this Kṛṣṇa in this temple is the same origin Kṛṣṇa who is in the Vaikuṇṭha, but because we have no eyes to see, because we are not mature to see Kṛṣṇa, therefore we should accept this, I mean to say, negation, that "Don't think like that." Then we will be able to understand.

*So that janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. Nothing is Kṛṣṇa's anything material. Everything is spiritual. But by His līlayā, to manifest different līlā, He accept different types of body. But they are all Kṛṣṇa, the same original person. Advaitam acyutam... Acyuta, He does not fall down. Therefore His name is Acyuta. Acyuta means never falls down, never deviates. He is always in His sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Not that because He has appeared for my convenience to accept my service in this form which I am seeing or the atheist is seeing, that it is stone. No. He is not stone. Advaitam acyutam. He doesn't fall. He does not deviate. Otherwise, there are many stories. That, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Sākṣi-gopāla. Sākṣi-gopāla temple is there in Jagannātha Purī. Just one station before Purī there is Sākṣi-gopāla station. And there is a temple. Sākṣi, sākṣi means the witness. That vigraha, that Deity, was in Vṛndāvana. He came to give evidence for His devotee. Therefore He is known as Sākṣi-gopāla. So devotee talks. Even if you think, "This is stone," or "This is metal," but devotee can talk, and Kṛṣṇa talks with him. There are many instances. That requires advancement of spiritual life.

*So this is called tattva, to know about Kṛṣṇa perfectly. And the informations are there in the śāstras. And simply to understand it, we require a little qualification. We require little qualification. Otherwise, everything is there. That qualification is to increase the temper of your devotion, or increase the quality of your love for Kṛṣṇa. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilo... [Bs. 5.38]. And that love can be increased by the process:

*ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā

*tato 'nartha*-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ

athāsaktis tato bhāvas tataḥ premābhyudañcati

sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]



This is step by step.



*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving, educating people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, how to know the science of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā. And anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa perfectly well... That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu approves that it doesn't matter what he is, a scientist. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya: [Cc. Madhya 8.128] "Anyone who knows perfectly well the science of Kṛṣṇa," kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, "in truth, he is guru." Nobody can become guru unless he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said in the śāstra that ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipraḥ. Vipra means brāhmaṇa.

*Brāhmaṇa, he is supposed to know six kind of activities, ṣaṭ*-karma. Ṣaṭ means six. What is that six kinds of? Paṭhana pāṭhana. Brāhmaṇa must be very learned, very expert, expertly learned in Vedic knowledge. That is called paṭhana. And pāṭhana: and he must teach others. He must be teacher, not that "I know and keep all the knowledge in my belly." No. Therefore formerly all the brāhmaṇas they had catuṣpāṭhī. The brāhmaṇa will sit down anywhere and begin teaching others. The student will come. That is brāhmaṇa's business. Paṭhana... But unless he is himself learned, how he can teach? So therefore, first of all he must be learned, paṭhana, and then pāṭhana, then he can teach others. Paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana. He must worship the Supreme Lord, and he must teach others how to worship the Supreme.

*That... What is this, Viśvanātha Cakravartī's verse? Niyuñjato 'pi. Śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā **. One of the symptoms of guru is described by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, śrī-vigraha ārādhana: "He knows how to worship the Deity." Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Dressing the Deity and tan-mandira-mārjanādau, and cleansing the temple, keeping everything fit in the temple. So the guru knows it, how to do it, and he teaches his disciple.

*śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-

*śṛṅgāra*-tan-mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi... **



*He is personally engaged, and he engages disciples. Not that you make a disciple and you keep him aside, "You cannot touch." This is going on. How? Then how he has become your disciple? If you have accepted him as disciple, how you can keep him aloof? No. "You are śūdra. You are mleccha." Therefore vaiṣṇave jāti*-buddhiḥ. You cannot make Vaiṣṇava... As soon as he becomes Vaiṣṇava, no more jāti. He is transcendental. Sa guṇān sama...



*Jāti-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra*-that is within this material world, not in the spiritual world. Spiritual world, everyone is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. There is no more jāti, no more distinction. Everything serving. That one. The master is also spiritual, and the servant is also spiritual, and there is no other relationship. Here in the material world we artificially want to become..., we want to become God. But in the spiritual world there is no such conception. In the spiritual world there are also living entities. They are called nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha means eternally perfect. There are two kinds of living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha, eternally conditioned. Yesterday we were reading that nitya-supta-buddhiḥ. Here in this material world, however we may be acting, we are sleeping. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānām. They are sleeping. We may show very good activities everywhere, but a saintly person will see that "All these rascals are sleeping." And these rascals will see the devotee is sleeping. Because they will see that "These rascals, they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, doing nothing for their bodily comfort and sense gratification. They are sleeping. They are misusing this life." And the devotees are seeing that "These rascal, those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are sleeping." So yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī.

*So this is going on, opposite of... Actually, the conditioned soul in this material world, they are sleeping. Therefore Vedas says, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata, that "You rascal, you are why sleeping?" They are not sleeping. They are thinking, "I'm so busy." But that busy*-ness is also dream, just like a man sleeping and dreaming that he is very busy. So this kind of life is condemned. Therefore the Veda says, "Get up! Get up! Now you have got this..." Prāpya varān nibodhata: "You have got this human form of life. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa. You try to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Try to understand your relationship and act accordingly. Then your life will be successful. Otherwise you are wasting your time."

Thank you very much. (end)



741217SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.5

-

Bombay, December 17, 1974



*Nitāi: "Divided into varieties by her threefold modes, material nature creates the forms of the living entities, and the living entities, seeing this, are illusioned by the knowledge*-covering feature of the illusory energy."



Prabhupāda:



guṇair vicitrāḥ sṛjatīṁ

*sa*-rūpāḥ prakṛtiṁ prajāḥ

vilokya mumuhe sadyaḥ

*sa iha jñāna*-gūhayā

[SB 3.26.5]



*Living entities, they have knowledge. That is the difference between matter and living entities. Living entities, they have got knowledge. The dull matter still requires to be developed. They are also covered knowledge. There is knowledge, but it is covered. Just like the tree: it is also a living entity, but the knowledge is more covered than the moving living entities. There are two kinds of living entities: moving and not moving, sthāvara*-jaṅgama. Sthāvara means standing, cannot move. And jaṅgama means moving. So jaṅgama is better than this sthāvara. And amongst the sthāvara, there are varieties. The insects, ants, reptiles, serpents, they are also jaṅgama. But one is better than the other, one is better than the other, and finally we come to this position, human being, moving, but better than all the lower animals, insects. Development, development of consciousness. But originally we are all pure living entities. We are contaminated by the modes of material nature. The more we are contaminated, our consciousness is covered. Therefore it is said, guṇair vicitrāḥ.



*Vicitrāḥ means varieties. Why there are varieties? The varieties are because according to our association with the different material modes of nature, therefore there are varieties. There are 8,400,000 varieties of forms simply on account of different type of association. Bhagavad*-gītā also says, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. So many varieties of living entities in this material world, they are due to guṇair vicitrāḥ, by the different qualities, mixture of qualities. So on the gross estimation the mixture is sattva, rajas, tamas, the first mixture. So this mixture has to be analyzed and separated. Just like in printing there is color separation process. It is also like that, color separation process. The sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, now mixed up by expert management, by expert process they can be separated, and we can come purely on the sattva-guṇa platform. And as soon as we come to the sattva-guṇa platform, then we can see things as they are. Chindanti sarva-saṁśayaḥ. When we are in the mixed-up qualities, then mumuhe, then we are bewildered.

*Just like at the present moment the human society cannot understand what is God, cannot understand. Mumuhe. It is the chance, human form of life, to understand God, and therefore śāstra, Vedānta, says atha, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now you inquire about Brahman." Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata: "Why you are sleeping again? This is a chance." There is a very good example, that some people, they keep that kit*-kit(?) bird, and they are trained up to walk on the field and again come in the cage. So the master gives him the chance, "Now, get out. Come in the free field." So if he likes, he can go away, fly away. But his attraction is so acute that after sometimes, walking on the field, again the master says, "Kit, kit, kit, kit." Again he enters. He could fly away. This is a chance.

*Similarly, the mother material nature, or Durgā*-devī... Durgā means the superintendent of this prison house, material, Durgā. Dur-gā: "You cannot go out." That is called durgā. Durgā means fort also. Very difficult, dur-gā, to go out. So the superintendent is called Durgā. The mother Durgā is the superintendent of this material world. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā [Bs. 5.44]. Very powerful, she has got ten hands. Ten hands means ten direction: east, west, and north, south, and the four corners, eight, and up and down, ten direction, dik, daśa-dik. So she is watching all sides: "You cannot get out." Therefore she is called Durgā-devī. Or this material world is called Devī-dhāma, "the place where the Devī, mother Durgā, is the superintendent." Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī, māyā [Bg. 7.14]. She is called also Māyā, Daivī-māyā.

*Māyā..., whose māyā? It is Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Māyā means something wonderful, mystic. Or māyā means illusion. So many, there are meaning. Māyā means affection also. So some way or other, this Durgā*-devī, Māyā, is Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Just like prison house. Prison house is also government house, but it is not as good as the government house. It is government... The proprietor is the government. It is looked after by the government. You can call it government house, but government house is different, rāja-bhavan. Similarly, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. Mama māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. That is creation of Kṛṣṇa. It is necessary.

*Somebody... The question is asked, "Why Kṛṣṇa created this material energy which is so miserable condition?" Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. So it is not Kṛṣṇa willingly created. But He gave the chance to the living entities who forgot Kṛṣṇa. He forgot Kṛṣṇa's service and wanted to enjoy this material world. Indriya*-tarpaṇa(?) Indriya-prītaye. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Here they are doing just against the law, kurute vikarma. Karma, vikarma, and akarma. So we have very good experience, especially in big, big cities. People, just to get money they are doing so many unlawful activities, vikarma. That is vikarma. They know that "If I do this, it is punishable by law," but still, for getting money they do that. That is the nature of this material world. For sense gratification one can do anything, risking life also. The thief is stealing stealthily, hiding and risking life to get some money. Why money? The money will supply his sense gratification.

*Therefore, when one is after sense gratification, he is mad, he becomes mad. Balavān indriya*-grāma durdānta. Indriya-grāma, these are the adjectives. Durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. These are the description. Indriya, the senses, are just like snakes, kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. As the snake, as soon as it bites, immediately there is death, so similarly, our indriyas, the material senses, are like durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī, and we are using it. These sense are being used in this material world. Therefore it is said, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. They have become mad, mad after sense gratification. The sublime sense gratification is sex. Therefore it is advised that,

mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā

nāviviktāsano bhavet

*balavān indriya*-grāmo

vidvāṁsam api karṣati

[SB 9.19.17]



*So we shall be very much careful about the senses. The whole yogic process means to control the senses. Yoga indriya*-saṁyamaḥ. Indriyas are so powerful that it drags us to the hellish condition of life. It is very difficult. So this material world means all crazy, mad fellow after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Why they are acting unlawful things, either stately unlawful or according to scripture unlawful? Yad indriya-prītaye, only for sense gratification. Yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti.



So śāstra says... It is the statement of Ṛṣabhadeva. He says, na sādhu manye: "No, no. It is not good." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. Ātmanaḥ, the soul. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. The ātmā is covered by this material body, although it is temporary. Sometimes it is for ten years or sometimes twenty years, sometimes hundred years, sometimes millions of years, but it is limited. Either you get the body of Lord Brahmā or the body of the poor ant, they are all temporary. It will be finished. So although it is finishable...

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



Asann api. Asann means "will not"; *it is temporary. But so long you have got this body, kleśada, it is painful always, miserable. Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika*-some kinds of miserable condition must be going on.



*So this is our position. Therefore ātma*-darśana, one must know what he is. He is spiritual being. Spiritual being, he has nothing to do with this material world, but somehow or other, we have fallen in this material world. Anādi karama-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale. It is just like ocean. So just like if you fall down from the boat or the ship, then it is struggle for existence. You may be very nice swimmer, but that does not mean in the water you will be comfortable. That is not possible. Similarly, we living entities, part and parcel of God, we are as pure as God. Kṛṣṇa, God, is pure. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Pavitra. So similarly... Pavitra means without material contamination. That is pavitra.

So the...

apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ



*This is the process, that you may be pure or impure. Material condition means impure, contaminated, conditioned. So to get out of this contaminated condition, the śāstra says, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam: "If you always constantly think of Puṇḍarīkākṣa, the lotus*-eyed Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu," yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ, "he becomes externally and internally śuci, purified."



So at the present moment our position is contaminated position by the contact of the three modes of material nature. Guṇair vicitrāḥ. Guṇair vicitrāḥ. You see so many varieties of life, different varieties of life. Uccāvaca. Some of them are higher, in higher position; *some of them are lower position. But this vicitra, soul, is pure. That is one quality. But this vicitra quality, why? Vicitra means variety. Because guṇaiḥ. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. Why one has become dog and one has become god? God means demigod. They are also living entities within this material world, but they live in higher planetary system. Just like here also we see some of them are living in high skyscraper building, very comfortable apartment, and some are living in the huts, jhupaṛi. In Bombay you can see. Both things are there. Similarly, these demigods-Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, and many others*-they are also living very comfortably in higher planets. They are also living entities. But they are in the, mostly in the sattva-guṇa. And here, in this planet or lower than this planet, they are mostly in rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa.

*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. If you develop sattva-guṇa, then gradually you can be elevated to the higher planetary system where the demigods live. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. If you are affected by the rajo-guṇa, then the middle planetary system, means bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ... Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya. So..., and lower planet, then Tala, Atala, Vitala, Pātāla, Rasātala, Talātala-there are so many down planetary system. There are fourteen planetary system, seven down, seven up.

*So this is going on. This is going on. Therefore it is called guṇair vicitrāḥ. All these living entities and their living condition, their mode of life, standard of life, everything, they are simply contamination of the three guṇas: tri*-guṇair vicitrāḥ. Sṛjatīṁ sa-rūpāḥ prakṛtiṁ prajāḥ. Sa-rūpāḥ prakṛtim. They are getting this form according to the tendency of the mind, sa-rūpāḥ. If I contaminate tamo-guṇa, then I get lower-grade life. If I contaminate rajo-guṇa, then middle-grade life. And if we contaminate... That is also contamination, but it is better than the other two.

*So all of them are material qualities, and that is unwanted association of the living entity. That is not required, because in the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ: "The living entity has nothing to do with these material qualities." But somehow or other, he has come in contact. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, anādi karama*-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale. And the Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that, ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau. "My dear Lord, Nanda-tanuja, the son Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa, I am Your eternal servant." Ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ mām: "I am... Somehow or other, I have fallen in this ocean of material existence. Kindly pick me up and make me the dust of Your lotus feet." Just like if you are in the ocean, somehow or other, if you are taken one inch above the water, you immediately feel relief. So we have to become at least one inch above these material qualities. Then you are liberated, immediately.

*So who can do that? That is done by Kṛṣṇa. Not the demigods can do that. It is not possible. Only Kṛṣṇa can give. Just like if you..., one is condemned to death, nobody can save him. Only the king can save him, the president can save him. Nobody can save him. It is not... By law, nobody can save him, one who is condemned to death. Everyone knows that. By king's mercy, by president's mercy... So similarly, we are here in this material world just like condemned to death. Condemned... That's a practical, condemned to death. Who is not condemned to death here? Who can say, "No, I am not condemned to death." Can anyone say? Everyone is condemned to death. "As sure as death." That is condemned to death. Why shall I die? If my nature, constitutional position, is na jāyate na mriyate*-I do not take birth; *I do not die*-then why I am dying? That is condemned to death.

*So condemned to death, we are acting in such a way. That is nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. We have got one life, and there is... According to the body, the dog is working in a certain way, the cat is working in a certain way, the man is working in a certain way, the brāhmaṇa is working in a certain way, the śūdra is working in certain way, according to the body. The child is working in a certain way. The grown-up young man is doing in certain way. So according to body, we are working in different way, vicitrāḥ, but they are all contaminated activities. Therefore we have go take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ mām: "I understand that I am Your eternal servant. My position is Your servant. But I prefer to become the servant of māyā. Therefore this is my fallen position. If You kindly take me again." And He is ready. Kṛṣṇa is ready. Therefore He comes personally to canvass, that "Why you are rotting in this material world?" Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Just like fathers, sane father, request the bewildered son, "Why, my dear son, you are suffering in this way? Why don't you come back to home, and live peacefully and blissfully?" But no, we are determined. We are determined. Although Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, His devotees are canvassing, "No. No, sir. We shall enjoy here." What is enjoyment? Birth and death, disease and old age*-is that enjoyment? But they have no brain to understand. Dull, mūḍhāḥ, duṣkṛtina. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me. I give you protection." But they will not do. Why? Because duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. That is the position.

*So because we are duṣkṛtinaḥ, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, therefore there are so many varieties of life. Guṇair vicitrāḥ sṛjatīm. And that is being done by the material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti, nature's law, it does not... It is so perfect machine... One... We have several times said. Just like there is perfect machinery: if you have contaminated the germs of cholera or smallpox, venereal disease, then you must suffer from that disease. The machine is working. Machine is working. Similarly, the machine of the prakṛti is working very finely. As soon as you contaminate one kind of sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, then you become contaminated, and your activities and your body and your mode of life-everything according to that contamination.

So in order to save ourself from this contamination, the only process is, as Kṛṣṇa says,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*Here the so*-called pious activities, that is also sinful activities. That is our mental concoction. We have made, "This is pious and this is impious." But to remain in this material world is itself impious, because it is contamination. So when you are diseased, contaminated, so where is the difference of pious activities and impious activities? It is simply imagination. In the material world there cannot be any pious activities-because the result is suffering birth and death and old age. Then where is your pious activities? So it is simply concoction.



*So when Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], sarva means "all." What is that "all"? Because we have created something pious and impious, something good, something bad, so Kṛṣṇa says, "You rascal, give up all this bad and good. Your so-called bad and good has no value. The only value is that you surrender unto Me." And then that is value. Otherwise you concoct, "This is very good; *this is very bad." In the prison house, if you think a first*-class prison is very nice, but after all, it is prison house. Your independence is cut down. So you may think that if it is actually first-class prison... Politicians, they are given first-class classification of prison house. Does it mean the politician want to remain there for good? Why they want to come out? So similarly, here in this material world it is simply vicitra, varieties. We call, "This is first class. This is second class. This is third class." It is simply varieties. Actually, it is all third class. There is no first class, second class. Guṇair vicitrāḥ. Just like you like some color. Somebody likes red color, somebody likes blue color, sometimes yellow color. But after all, it is color, you like this or that. Similarly, sattva-guṇa is yellow color, and tamo-guṇa is blue color, and rajo-guṇa is red color. So you may like this color or that color-after all, it is material color.

*So you should become free from all this colorful life of material existence and you become pure. But how you can become pure? That is also given in the Bhagavad... Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Guṇān. Here it is said, guṇair vicitrāḥ: "By the colorful mixture of these modes of material nature, there are so many varieties, varieties of the modes of nature." But if you want to be out of this colorful material life and you realize yourself, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am Brahman, and I am the same quality as God," then you have to engage yourself in devotional service.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So try to come to the platform of sattva*-guṇa. Not sattva-guṇa-brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20], transcendental, spiritual platform. Come to this brahma-bhūta; *then your life will be successful. And if you want to live this colorful life-sometimes Brahmā, sometimes dog, sometimes cat, sometimes human being, sometimes king, sometimes worm of the stool*-in this way, if you like this colorful life... The colorful life is going by the modes of material nature. As we are contaminating different colorful life, we are having this body. So in order to... The Buddha philosophy gives little hint only, nirvāṇa: "You just finish this colorful life." But it does not give further enlightenment. Simply it gives the hint that "You finish, nirvāṇa." Nirvāṇa means "Finish this colorful life. Become zero." He said zero, śūnyavādi. But actually, we cannot be zero. Because we are eternal, how we can be zero? We have to enter another colorful life. That is spiritual life. That is spiritual life. Simply if you make zero, that is not... That is little better, that you understand that this colorful life of material existence is not good. But what is your positive engagement? Unless you are positively engaged in another superior colorful life, you cannot give up this base colorful life.



*And that engagement into superior colorful life is devotional life. Just see superior. Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, susukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. Susukham. Su means very nice, and sukham means happy. The devotional service is so nice and happy. You see this devotional service. You always engage..., you are always engaged in the Deity worship, bring nice cloth. Instead of dressing yourself with nice cloth, dress Kṛṣṇa with nice cloth. Then your desire for dressing nicely will vanish. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. Bhakta is satisfied when Kṛṣṇa is very nicely dressed. He doesn't care for his own dress. Therefore this colorful life is diminishing. Here we are trying to become very nicely dressed, to be attractive by others. But when one becomes a Vaiṣṇava, he is no more interested in this colorful life. But he is interested in the colorful life of Kṛṣṇa. He is interested, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. He is satisfied. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. When he, the devotee, sees that Kṛṣṇa is very nicely dressed, Kṛṣṇa is very nicely ornamented with garland, with jewels, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā **, daily changing, and the temple is very cleansed, and Kṛṣṇa is offered, catur-vidha-śrī-bhagavat-prasāda, carvya, coṣya, lehya, peya, varieties of prasādam, his life becomes happy in that way, not by enjoying them, but offering to Kṛṣṇa. This is another colorful life.

So if you change your colorful life of this material existence and if you take to the colorful life... If you simply make zero, then it will not be fruitful, because we cannot become zero. It is not possible. People say that you become desireless. That is impossible. How we can become desireless? That is the life, to desire. The desire has to be purified. That is wanted. That purified means in spite..., instead of desiring a very nice dress for yourself, when you desire the nice dress for Kṛṣṇa, this is purified. This is purified. Instead of desiring yourself to eat very nice palatable dishes, if you offer Kṛṣṇa nice palatable dishes, then you become desireless. This is desireless.

*So you will not be bereft of the prasāda. Whatever you offering to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He will eat, and He will leave it again, the same, very tasteful. And you will eat it, and you become spiritualized. Kṛṣṇa is not hungry, that because you will give Him very palatable dishes, He will eat everything. He is self*-sufficient. He is being offered such nice dishes by many thousands of goddess of fortune, including Rādhārāṇī, and so He has no need for your nicely prepared foodstuff. But He is so kind that He comes to accept it just to deliver you. Take it like that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



741218SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.6

-

Bombay, December 18, 1974



Nitāi: (leads chanting)



Prabhupāda: (corrects pronunciation) Kartṛtvam, kartṛtvam.



Nitāi: (leads chanting, etc.) "Due to his forgetfulness, the transcendental living entity accepts the influence of material energy as his field of activities, and thus actuated, he wrongly applies the activities to himself."



Prabhupāda: (aside:) He'll fall down.



evaṁ parābhidhyānena

kartṛtvaṁ prakṛteḥ pumān

karmasu kriyamāṇeṣu

guṇair ātmani manyate

[SB 3.26.6]



*Being influenced by... (aside:) It is not working? Being influenced by the modes of material nature, he is, the living entity, is identifying himself with the particular type of material nature, particular modes of material nature. We are getting different types of bodies according to the modes of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is also said. Whatever we are doing, we are doing under the spell of material nature. Just like a madman. A madman is insulting his father. Why? Naturally a man is not supposed to insult his father, but being maddened, sometimes we have seen that insults his father. I... One friend... I went to the Poona lunatic asylum with the father of the patient. The complaint was that the son who is mad was kept in Poona at the lunatic asylum. He would attack his father immediately he sees. His only anger was with his father. So similarly, nature is the father, son is respectful to the father. But sometimes, in madness, he is not only disrespectful, but he want to insult actually.



*As this is quite happening in our daily experience, similarly, we are sons of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is a fact. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ: [Bg. 14.4] "All different types of bodies, they are born of the mother, material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." This is the fact. We living entities... Just like father gives the seed within the womb of the mother, and then the son develops a body from the ingredients supplied by mother's body, and when the body is completely developed, the child comes out with a particular type of body given by the mother, in the same way, we living entities, we are part and parcel of God.

*So sa aikṣata. The Vedic information is... Sa asṛjata. We gives seeds with a particular part of the body, but Mahā*-Viṣṇu, simply by glancing over the material nature, mahat-tattva, He impregnates the material nature with so many living entities. Sa asṛjata, sa aikṣata. These are the information. The Supreme Personality can give birth through His eyesight. He doesn't require to use it, genital. Because we get information from Brahma-saṁhitā, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti, ānanda-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala [Bs. 5.32]. These are description in the Brahma-saṁhitā. We can see only with our eyes, but the Brahman, Parabrahman, Viṣṇu, He can beget children also with eyesight. We can eat with our mouth, tongue, but Kṛṣṇa can eat by seeing. Sometimes the argument is put forward by the atheist class of men that "You are offering foodstuff to the Deity, but when He has eaten? The foodstuff is still lying there." (aside:) The children may be taken away. So he does not know, the atheist class man, that Kṛṣṇa can eat simply by seeing. He has eaten everything, and again He has left everything. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. This is Kṛṣṇa's eating. He can eat the whole foodstuff, and it still remains as prasādam for distribution to the devotee as it is. So the atheists cannot see it. They think that it is lying there. It is lying there, but no, that is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa has eaten. And Kṛṣṇa, simply seeing by the eyes, He has eaten. It is a great science. One has to learn.

*So we are all sons of God. This is a fact, either I am human being or demigod or cats or dog or tree or plants or insect, anything, all living entities. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu. Sarva-yoniṣu mean "All different forms or species of life, as many living entities there are, they are all My sons." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father," or "They are all My sons." This is our relationship. Actually, this is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And as the father and son relationship means the son may live at the cost of the father... Father has got immense property. They can enjoy. But they must remain very obedient to the father*-very natural-then he is happy. If the father is very rich man, he has got all the resources, and if the son is obedient, then where is trouble? Is there any trouble? Father wants simply... Father is ready to give all the property to the sons. That is natural inclination. And the son's duty is just to become obedient to the father.

*But that we have rebelled: "No, why shall I be obedient?" Therefore it is said, evaṁ parābhidhyānena kartṛtvaṁ prakṛteḥ pumān. All the living entities in this material world, they are thinking that "I am proprietor. I am supreme. I can do anything, whatever I like. There is no question of accepting any authority of God. These are primitive thoughts. We are self-sufficient." That means he is speaking all nonsense under the influence of prakṛti. He is a rascal number one. Just like a madman speaks so many things full of rascaldom-nobody cares for-similarly, when a devotee sees that a nondevotee atheist is claiming so many things for himself without giving credit... Even big, big swamis, they are teaching that "Why you are giving credit to God?" The communists also. There are big swamis, they also say like that, that "You are working hard. You have got some good result. Why you are giving credit to God?" These things are being taught. And the atheist also says, "I have worked hard. I have achieved this nice result. It is due to my labor." And..., but when he is in loss, then the credit goes to God. Bhagavān ki chaya chalagiya(?) (laughter) When he gets something, that is his credit. And he loses something*-that goes to the responsibility of God: "Why God has created so much trouble? Why God has...," so many things.

So this is foolishness. Tvayā abhihita. This is called spell of māyā. So under the spell of māyā, para, para abhidhyānena kartṛtvam, he becomes independent and talks all nonsense.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Actually, he is being pulled by the material nature. Just like dog, chained, he has to do according to the master desire, similarly, we are also chained by the prakṛti, material nature, and we are being forced to act according to the dictation of the material nature. But ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā. Because he is bewildered, he is thinking... You will find in the beach so many dogs. They are very proudly jumping and thinking that "I have got full independence," but actually he is dependent.



*So every one of us, we are dependent on prakṛti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu described the constitutional position of the living entity. When Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired that "What is the constitutional position of us?" He ex... It is a fact. This is intelligence. It is a fact that we are under the control of the material nature, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14], and we are acting under the control of material nature. However great scientist I may be, however great politician, prime minister I may be, but when nature will say, "Please get out," we have to do it. You cannot, by your so*-called scientific method, you can say, "No, no, I shall remain. Who can drive me away?" That is not possible. So this is a fact, that they are defying the authority of God. They say that "What is the use of accepting God?" because foolish. They...

*Just like the communist class men, they say, "The religion is the cause of all falldown of the human society, religion." Therefore they are very much against religion. When I was in Moscow, in the airport, my custom checking was being done. So they found out one Bhagavad-gītā. So immediately the custom officer called police. So I thought, "Now my destiny is finished, because... (laughter) Because I know that these people send anyone to some unknown place. You cannot question." In our country that is also coming very soon. Anyone government can send anywhere. So the policeman, two policemen came. So they saw the Bhagavad-gītā. Of course, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, they said, "Oh, no, there is nothing dangerous. They can go." This is the country, Moscow. I have got practical experience in going there. And always suspicious. And the people in general, they are very unhappy, very unhappy, because they have no freedom. A young man cannot go out of the country. So they may advertise so much, but so far I have got experience*-the most wretched country. Everyone is fearful. And they are not very prosperous, not rich or... Comparing to the other cities of Europe or America, Moscow is a very poor city.

Anyway, this defying the authority of God, this is the our main material disease. That is explained, evaṁ parābhidhyānena kartṛtvam. It is foolishness. Kartṛtvam. He is completely under the control of material nature; *still, he is thinking, "I am free. I am the master. I can do anything, whatever I like. There is no need of accepting the authority of God." This is called māyā. Māyā*-mohita. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair mohitaṁ nābhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. These rascals, they are bewildered by the three kinds of material modes of nature. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair mohitaṁ nābhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ param. They cannot understand that in the background of everything there is the supreme authority of God. This is called atheism. Although they are being kicked every moment by the modes of material nature, they are feeling that "I am under the control of some power, superior power..." That is appreciating. Just like I gave you the example: the death, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. They are trying to stop, the birth control, but still, the statistics is that every second or every moment, every three minutes, there is one population increased. So this is janma. Similarly, mṛtyu. Mṛtyu means death. So there are so much scientific improvement, medicine and technology and so many things, but who can check mṛtyu, death? Even the scientist cannot. Big, big scientist, why do they not manufacture something that "As soon as I am dead, please inject this medicine. I will come out again." No, that is not possible.

So you cannot solve the problem of janma, or you cannot solve the problem of mṛtyu. You cannot solve the problem of being old, invalid, disease. Then where is your solution of problems? But still, they are proud, "We are advancing." What you have advanced? The real problem are there. Nobody could solve. Try the history of the whole world. There have been so many big, big empires: the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Mogul Empire. But where are those empires, and where are those emperors? When I go to Agra, I pass through the fort, and they show, "Here the emperor Shah Jahan lived. Here the emperor..." Where is that Shah Jahan now? The place is there. Similarly, in France, in a park there is Napoleon's statue: "Napoleon and France, the identity." And I asked them that "Your France is here, but where is your Napoleon?" (laughter)

*So this is going on, foolishness, so many foolish persons, full of... And they are controlling this material world. Therefore it is very precarious condition. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Īśa-tantryām. Just like if your hands and legs are tied very fast with some rope, and if you say, "I am independent," what is the meaning of it? If your hands and legs are tied up by a strong rope and still you think that you are independent, has it got any meaning? Similarly, we are tied up by the stringent rules and regulation of the material nature so fast, and still if we think that we are independent, is that very sanity conjecture? No. Even in your eating process, you are so much tied up by the rules and regulation that if you eat little more than you can digest, then there will be some disease immediately. Immediately there will be indigestion, diarrhea. You will have to suffer. If you enjoy when you are youthful too much sex life, then after a few days you will be impotent, no more sex life. In this way we are simply tied up by the rules and regulation of the material nature, and still, we are defying the authority and thinking, "I am independent." This is called rascaldom, mūḍha. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha, all rascals. You cannot control the laws of material nature and you are thinking you are independent? And the laws of material nature means material nature is the agent. Real conductor is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says,

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



So behind the material nature there is God. Under His direction material nature is working. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā, the material nature power, is working just like chāya, shadow. So in this way... There is a Bengali verse,



*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya



*Piśācī, ghost, witch. There is some haunting of ghost, and when a man is ghostly haunted, he speaks so many nonsense. Māyā*-grasta. Piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya. Similarly, under the spell of māyā we defy everything, "Where is God? Can you show me God?" He is seeing every step God. God is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, how you can see God in every step, if you learn how to see God. That is taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. God is teaching that "You try to see Me in this way." What is that? "When you taste the water of, the taste of the liquid, water or anything," raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, "that taste is I am." So you want to see God, but you are tasting so many liquid thing. Why don't you think that "Here is God. The taste is God"? God is teaching. You learn how to see God. Your this blunt eyes, how you can see God now? You try to see God in this way, as God says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8].



Now, if actually a philosophical minded man is there, if he simply makes research, "Wherefrom this nice taste came in the water?" he can see God because ultimately he has to come to God. If he researches, make research, "Wherefrom the sunshine came...?" You can say the sunshine is coming from the sun globe, but for further research work, you cannot go even there. But if you are actually student, philosophical minded, if you make darśana... Philosophy means darśana. Darśana means seeing. See more, see more, see more. In this way you will ultimately come. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ... Then he will come to this conclusion: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. If you are actually serious student, research worker, then after executing research work for many, many birth, when you are actually wise, jñānavān, then you will surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19].

So this is the way. But these rascals, infatuated by false ego and under the spell of material nature, being kicked by material nature, thinking that he is kartṛ, kartā... Kartāham iti manyate. Kartṛtvam: "I am doing. I am... We have made so much advance in research, so much scientific advancement, this and that, so many things." No. It is not possible. Without God's hand, you cannot do anything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. A scientist working very hard to find out some chemical or some physical thing, but there are many others working. But unless Kṛṣṇa from within gives his proper intelligence, he cannot invent the particular thing. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa gives him intelligence. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. One... Two scientists working: one has become successful, and one is not successful. Why? Both are working very hard. The one is favored by Kṛṣṇa, and the other is not favored. Otherwise how you can explain? If material knowledge is sufficient, both of them working hard to find out the truth of a scientific discovery, but one is able to find out, another is not able, then how you can explain these discrepancies? The only explanation is that one is favored by Kṛṣṇa, and the other is not favored.

*Actually, it so happened. You know this Marconi's invention of wireless telegram. So Marconi and many other scientist were working on this line. One of them was Sir Jagadish Candra Bose. So this was explained by Sir Jagadish Candra Bose in a meeting-I was a boy at that time, in Calcutta*-that they were discussing, Marconi and Dr. Bose, Sir Jagadish Candra Bose, about these waves, and so actually Dr. Bose discovered this wireless. The Marconi heard it from Bose, and immediately he published in the paper. And the British government gave him preference that he became the inventor of this wireless telegram, but actually it was Dr. Bose. So that means he was favored. Kṛṣṇa gave him intelligence, "Now you take this opportunities, takes this theory explained by Dr. Bose, and you publish it. You get the name." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. This is the explanation. One is working very hard day and night, and another is enjoying the result. Why? That is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra [Bg. 3.27]. You may think that you are doing, but you are under the control of the material nature, and the material nature is controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So therefore, ultimately, you are controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

But being spelled by the material nature, he is thinking that...

evaṁ parābhidhyānena

kartṛtvaṁ prakṛteḥ pumān

karmasu kriyamāṇeṣu

guṇair ātmani manyate



*Ātmani, guṇaiḥ. So we have contacted, we have infected some prakṛti, some guṇa, some quality of the material nature. We are acting in that way. So at the present moment the material life means we are all working under the spell of this material nature, guṇaiḥ, guṇaiḥ. So I have got this body, Indian body. I am thinking, "I am Indian. My duty is like this, like that." One is born in America. He is thinking like that. One is born in dog family. He is thinking like that. One is born in cat's family... In this way, different varieties of body and different varieties of thinking. Different varieties of body. It is due to the body. So karmasu kriyamāṇeṣu. We do actually according to the body or according to the temperament. Karmasu kriyamāṇeṣu guṇaiḥ. And that is spelled by this material nature. And I am identifying myself in that way: "I am this," "I am that," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am American," "I am Christian," like that. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. So this is our conditional life. Because Kapiladeva is speaking on the subject matter of ātma*-darśana. So if we identify like that, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," or "I am cat," "I am dog," then we shall continue this life, this conditional life by the material nature. We shall continue forever. Nitya-baddha. Forever. "Forever" means we cannot calculate how long we shall continue. That is... It is not nitya actually, but because I do not know from whence it has begun, neither I know when it will end, therefore it is called nitya-baddha. Nitya-baddha.



*So we are nitya*-baddha, eternally bound up, by these laws of material nature, and we are wandering throughout the universe according to karma. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. If we work on the sattva-guṇa... Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi... We... Vicitra: there are so many varieties. So we may go sometimes up to Brahmaloka. That is not very difficult. But ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Either you go to Brahmaloka or Pātālaloka or any loka, this form or that body, you will have to go through these four principles of material condition: birth, death, old age and disease. That is not possible to overcome. That you can overcome only-mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Therefore the conclusion is that instead of serving under the spell of material nature, let us immediately transfer our position to become the original. Original means eternal servant of God, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our constitutional position. We are eternal servant of God, Kṛṣṇa. So if we take to it immediately... Kṛṣṇa says also, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. The spell of māyā we can overcome if we immediately take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, that He says, "You surrender unto Me, and I shall give you all protection from the sinful reaction of your life."

*So that is our business, immediately. But we do not know. There is no such education. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know what should be the aim of education, aim of life. They do not know it. They..., because they are bewildered. Yayā sammohito jīva ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakaṁ manute [SB 1.7.5]. Ātmānaṁ sammohito jīvaḥ, being bewildered, being captivated, yayā sammohito jīvaḥ, with the māyā, the material nature, being captured and bewildered by her, yayā sammohito jīva ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakam, he is thinking that "I am identified with the three guṇas." Somebody is thinking that "I am brāhmaṇa. I am brāhmaṇa, the most pure, most exalted person in the human society." This is sattva-guṇa. Tri-guṇātmakam. Somebody is think..., identifying himself with the sattva-guṇa, somebody is identifying himself with the rajo-guṇa, somebody is identifying himself in the tamo-guṇa, or somebody is identifying with the mixed up. So in this way going on. Yayā sammohito jīvaḥ.

*Vyāsadeva said, yayā sammohito jīva ātmānaṁ tri*-guṇātmakam, manute anartham. So anartham, some useless purpose of life, anartham.

*So the Vyāsadeva recommended, or Sūta Gosvāmī said, anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje. If you want to get out of this anartham, unwanted and purposeless life of material existence... That one should first of all understand, that this material existence is anartham. Anartham means purposeless life. There is no purpose. Real purpose should be how to get out of the spell of material nature. That is real purpose. They do not know. They do not know. They are taking very seriously some temporary purpose of life, which will be changed with the change of body. Now, as human being, I am manufacturing so many purposes of life, but as soon as the body is changed and I get the body of a cat or dog or tree, the whole purpose is changed. Therefore it is purposeless life, anartham. There is no meaning of this purpose. Because everything will be changed with the change of your body. Therefore they do not... They shudder to think of, that "We have got next life." They therefore deny, "No, there is no next life. This life is finished." A foolish life. That is not.

*So anartha upa... In order to get out of this anartham, purposeless life, anartha upaśamam... Upaśamam means curbing down or finish it, upaśamam, finishing. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje. The... If you want to be free from this purposeless, useless life, then you have to engage yourself in the bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, to the Supreme. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. Sākṣāt, directly. Yo may have many other means to become free from this useless, purposeless life. There may be karma, jñāna, yoga. But that is indirect. That is not actually factual. Suppose a poor man is trying to get out of this condition, poor condition. He becomes a rich man. So that is also purposeless. From poor man to become rich man, it is also purposeless. Because today you are rich man; *again you will become poor man. Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed, sometimes poor man, sometimes... Practically we see a man in our presence. He was very poor man; *he became rich man. And again his everything, business, failed. He again became a poor man. So this kind of poor man, rich man, sometimes Brahmā, sometimes ant, sometimes cats, dogs*-this is all purposeless life. Purpose... Real life is eternal blissful life, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. That should be our aim of life.

*So if you want that life and if you want to get free from this purposeless life, anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje, then you have to take to bhakti-yogam, transcendental loving service to the Lord. That is called bhakti-yogam. People do not know. Therefore Sūta Gosvāmī says, lokasya ajānataḥ: "These people, they do not know it, how to get out of this purposeless life." Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The people, general people, they do not know it; *neither they are interested, because they are so fool. So lokasya ajānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata*-saṁhitām [SB 1.7.6]. Vidvān, Vyāsadeva, the vidvān, he compiled this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. If you read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... (end)



741219SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.7

-

Bombay, December 19, 1974



Nitāi: "Material consciousness is the cause of one's conditional life. Conditions are enforced upon the living entity by the material energy. Although he does not do anything and is transcendental to such activities, the spirit soul is thus affected by conditional life."



Prabhupāda:



tad asya saṁsṛtir bandhaḥ

*pāra*-tantryaṁ ca tat-kṛtam

bhavaty akartur īśasya

sākṣiṇo nirvṛtātmanaḥ

[SB 3.26.7]



*So karmasu kriyamāṇeṣu guṇair ātmani manyate. The conditioned soul... We say "conditioned." It was not conditioned, but now it has become conditioned, pāra*-tantrya.



*kṛṣṇa bhuli' sei jīva anādi*-bahirmukha

*ataeva māyā tāre deya saṁsāra*-duḥkha

[Cc. Madhya 20.117]



*This is a statement in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Kṛṣṇa bhuliyā, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, jīva, the living entity, anādi-bahirmukha... Anādi... Ādi means the beginning of the creation, and anādi means before the creation. Anādi. Nobody knows when it has began. The creation... There are many creations. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Just like this body: it is created, everyone knows. It is created by the father and mother. And it will be annihilated in due course of time by nature's way. Similarly, anything material... This whole universe, cosmic manifestation, is also created. This is a bigger body, that's all, virāṭ body. And it stays for millions and millions of years during the lifetime of Brahmā. We have got information, Brahmā's one day: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. We cannot calculate even one Brahmā's day. Such one day means daytime, twelve hours; *then night, twelve hours. In this one day, such month, such year, such hundred years, Brahmā lives. So this cosmic manifestation, brahmāṇḍa, universe, will stay up to that time. So there is no difference in the manipulation with this body and the Brahmā. It is the same principle. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. So this is saṁsṛtiḥ, anādi*-bahirmukha.



So this creation... Not only this creation... We are in this material world, maybe. "Maybe" not; *it is a fact that we have been in many other creations. Therefore our this forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa is called anādi. Anādi means before creation. This creation is going on. Before that, there was another creation. The same thing was going on. Now, this is called saṁsṛtiḥ, saṁsāra, saṁsāra*-bandhana, bound up by saṁsṛtiḥ. Anādi karama-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, "On account of my fruitive result before the beginning of the creation, I am now in this material ocean." Anādi karma-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale taribāre nā dekhi upāy: "I do not find any means how to get out of it." This is knowledge. When one becomes very anxious, very serious to get out of this saṁsṛtiḥ, continually going on, birth and death, birth and death, birth... People have no knowledge. So tad asya saṁsṛtir bandhaḥ. This is bondage.

The previous verse, it has been described,

evaṁ parābhidhyānena

kartṛtvaṁ prakṛteḥ pumān

karmasu kriyamāṇeṣu

guṇair ātmani manyate



*Dictated by the material nature, we are acting in some way and thereby creating another resultant action, means another body. In this way it is going on. That is called saṁsṛtiḥ. Tad asya saṁsṛtir bandhaḥ pāra*-tantryam. Svātantrya, and just the opposite word is pāra-tantrya, under the direction of somebody else, pāra-tantrya. Just like dog and the master. The dog is pāra-tantrya, dependent on the master. Similarly, we are now dogs of material nature, pāra-tantrya. We cannot go beyond the rules and regulation, condition, of material nature. That is called pāra-tantrya, not svātantrya. Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet, but because they are under condition of material nature, not that they can go very easily. It is not possible. They are coming back again and again trying to go there. This is also material world. Even in this material world we are so much dependent on the rules and regulation of the nature. And what to speak of going to the spiritual world? Pāra-tantrya is there. We admit or not admit. We are not svātantrya, or independent. We are dependent. Bhavaty akartur īśasya sākṣiṇo nirvṛtātmanaḥ.



So we are conditioned soul, but the Supersoul... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not admit the existence of Supersoul. They think there is one soul. We are... They speak of our conditioned life as līlā. This is not very good philosophy. One has got the body of a hog, and he is eating stool, and the Māyāvādī philosopher says that it is līlā. God is eating stool; *it is līlā. Just see the philosophy! Because we say kṛṣṇa*-līlā... Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is dancing with the gopīs or playing with the cowherds boy or becoming the child of mother Yaśodā. We say it is līlā. The Māyāvādī philosopher says... Because they do not two, make two. Their philosophy is one. So the pig or the hog eating the stool, they say it is also līlā. Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs, that is also līlā, and because they do not make two, therefore... We cannot say, of course. They say that God is also, has become pig and they, eating stool, that is also līlā. This is the grossest offense on the feet of the Lord, to bring Him to the status of ordinary living being who is not independent. Dependent, it is clearly said. Therefore they manufacture these words, "daridra-nārāyaṇa," "this Nārāyaṇa," "that Nārāyaṇa," because they do not make any difference between Nārāyaṇa and the ordinary living entity. This is their philosophy.

*But that is not the fact. Here it is said, tad asya saṁsṛtir bandhaḥ pāra*-tantryaṁ ca tat-kṛtam. Pāra-tantrya, under the grip of the laws of material nature. How God can be under the grip of material nature? They explain, "It is līlā." But that is not. Here it is said, pāra-tantrya: "He is forced to accept a certain type of body." That is called pāra-tantrya. Saṁsṛtiḥ. This is punishment, saṁsṛtiḥ. Why saṁsṛtiḥ? On account of... (aside:) What is that? Sit down. Saṁsṛtiḥ. Saṁsṛtiḥ means punishment. Samyak rūpeṇa sṛtiḥ, going, progress, one after another, one after another, one after another, saṁsṛtiḥ, saṁsāra. So saṁsāra is not very palatable thing. Our Vaiṣṇava ācāryas say that saṁsāra is just like blazing fire. It is not a very nice... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. So does it mean that the Supreme Lord, the Absolute Personality of Godhead, He has come to suffer? And by force everyone in this material world is suffering saṁsṛtiḥ, and he is the Supreme Personality of Godhead? How wrong philosophy it is. No.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is not possible to make the one. No. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "Jīva is My aṁśa, part, particle, very small particle." And Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, He is vibhu. We have discussed all this. Vibhu, greater than the greatest, and smaller than the smallest. The smaller than the smallest... Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Mahato mahīyān is the Supreme Lord, and we are aṇu, very small particle, although we are the same expansion of the Supreme. But both, we are individual, not that today we are differentiated, and when we are liberated, we become one. No. That is not. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātanaḥ means eternally we are vibhinnāṁśa.

*So our this pāra-tantrya, dependence on material nature, is pāra-tantryaṁ ca tat-kṛtam. Tat-kṛtam. And we wanted this separation. Therefore it is our conditioned life here. That is our selection. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. When we wanted to enjoy life independently, so-called ind..., because we cannot be independent... We have to become dependent. Either this material nature or the spiritual nature, it is not possible. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. You have to take āśraya, shelter, of either of the prakṛtis, parā-prakṛti or aparā-prakṛti. Aparā-prakṛti is this material nature, and parā-prakṛti is the spiritual nature. So therefore jīva-śakti is called taṭastha. Taṭastha. Antaraṅga, bahiraṅga, taṭastha. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport], the Absolute Truth has got multi-potencies. They have been summarized into three. First is parā-prakṛti, spiritual nature, and then the material nature, and another nature, prakṛti*-we are also prakṛti-between the two, taṭastha. Just like the beach is between the land and water. Beach is sometimes covered with water, and sometimes it is uncovered; *the water is far away. When it is not covered, we call it beach, and it is covered, we call it sea. So similarly, our position is like that, living entities. Although by nature we are parā*-prakṛti, spirit, spirit, but because we have got the tendency to enjoy material nature, therefore we come to this material nature. Therefore our position is in between the spiritual nature and the material nature, taṭastha. Taṭastha means in between.

*So because we have selected this pāra*-tantrya, to be conditioned by the material nature, in any condition we are dependent, either dependent on spiritual nature or on material nature. So if we prefer to be under the control of material nature, then it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. And if we are under spiritual nature, then... Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Raso vai saḥ, labdhānandī. Then we get blissful life, eternal blissful life. That is our selection. Either you be under spiritual nature or you be under material nature. That we have got, little independence, as you like. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Kṛṣṇa said. Kṛṣṇa is very kind. If you want to remain in the material nature and enjoy so-called material sense gratification, then you can have it.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is explained,

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*If you want to remain in this material world, bhūtejyā, worshiper of the material energy... Just like we are at present engaged: we are worshiper of the material energy, or Durgā. Worshiper of the material energy. In the Durgā*-pūjā, in the Caṇḍi, the direction is that you ask material opulence, dhanaṁ dehi, rūpaṁ dehi, rūpavatī-bhāryāṁ dehi, yaśo dehi. That you can do. And we all living entities within this material world, we are worshiper of the material nature. The scientist also trying to find out means how to exploit the resources of material nature. That is also one kind of worshiping. Because if they are successful in discovering some material energy, new kind of material energy, they get money. Then, by money, they get full advantage of sense gratification. So this is called conditioned life, conditioned by the material..., illusioned by the material... They are trying, discover material advances, and becoming happy by such advancement. This is called material life. This is pāra-tantrya. This is not svātantrya. Pāra-tantrya. Although constitutionally the living entity is svātantrya, asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ, but because we accepted to be satisfied under the control of material nature, that is called pāra-tantrya, and that is called saṁsṛtiḥ. Saṁsṛtiḥ means continuously repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. That is called saṁsāra.



*Therefore Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, he says, saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. This saṁsṛtiḥ, this repetition of birth and death and different standard of material happiness... Everybody has got some material happiness. The man has got a standard of material happiness. The dog has got a standard of material happiness. The demigods, they have got a standard of material happiness. Everyone has got. So... But actually, it is not happiness. It is simply miserable condition. And because we do not appreciate this miserable condition, we still think that we are happy. That is called māyā, illusion. This is called saṁsṛtiḥ. Although we are in a miserable condition, continually, every moment, every second... This place is like that. Kṛṣṇa says, not that we are saying. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam. Continually you have to suffer. But we are, we have become so much habituated in this suffering, we do not accept it as suffering. We take it as very pleasing, because we have no idea what is actually happiness. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. Real happiness, what is real happiness? Sukhaṁ yat. Then what is sukham? That is not to be appreciated by these material senses. Sukham ātyantikam. Ātyantikam means supreme. This is not... Whatever so-called happiness we derive in this material world, that is dependent on so many conditions. That is not ātyantikam. Ātyantikam means the supreme happiness. That is different from this material happiness, but we have no information or taste because we have been conditioned for many many creation, anādi. Just like a man suffering from disease from many, many years. He becomes accustomed. He does not take any more that this suffering is suffering. He thinks this is natural.

*So we have been accustomed to this habit of material disadvantages. We have no information of spiritual life. Therefore śāstra says that we should try... This life, human life, is not meant for suffering but to make endeavor to end suffering. That is human life. Human life is not meant for suffering like the animals. Just like the life of pig. Is that very good life? Whole day and night they are searching after stool, "Where is stool? Where is stool?" because that is their enjoyment. Actually, if you give a pig halavā and, side by side, stool, he would prefer to accept the stool than the halavā because he is habituated to that kind of food. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says that human life... He was instructing to His sons, "My dear sons, don't be like pigs. You just become like human being." Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "My dear sons, don't try to get happiness like the pigs, dogs, hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān. With hard labor, you get some food, and then you enjoy sex life. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Material life means to work very hard day and night and get some money and then eat sumptuously. Eat, drink, be merry and then enjoy sex life. That's all. So Ṛṣabhadeva said, "My dear sons, this kind of standard of life is available in the life of pigs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate ye viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means stool-eaters.

Then what is human life? If this is not life, then what is real life? That, He recommends, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Sattva, your sattva, your existence, is now impure. It is covered by this material nature; *therefore it is impure. So you have to purify. That is real life. And to purify means tapasya. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. That is the way. That is Vedic civilization. That is Vedic civilization, or you may call Indian civilization or Hindu civilization. Actually, it is Vedic civilization. Therefore you will find in India, in the history of India, Mahābhārata, greater India, that many people, they are engaged in tapasya. A part of life must be engaged for tapasya. The Bharata Mahārāja, Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa... So you will find in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam his life. He enjoyed his kingdom, then voluntarily he left. After the end of his material way of life, he divided the property to his sons and left. And he was living alone at Pulahāśrama near Haridwar, and undergoing severe tapasya. That is human life, to accept tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. You are searching after happiness, but why don't you see that in this material life your happiness is conditioned? That is not easily going or flowing. There are so many conditions. If you have to become a millionaire, before becoming millionaire there are so many condition. So this is not happiness, after going through so many conditions, and which we get, that is also not for good.

*So to come to the so*-called conditional happiness we have to undergo so many difficulties, and when we come to that position... Suppose after working very, very hard I get one millions dollars, so I will not be allowed to enjoy this one million dollar for all the days. Aśāśvatam. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Kṛṣṇa says that this place is full of miseries. To get that one million dollar you have to undergo so many miserable condition of life. And even if you get it... Perhaps you may not get it. Everyone is trying, but they cannot. Everyone is not getting. Who is destined to get, he will get it, not that everyone, because he, one is trying very hard, it is guaranteed that he will get one millions dollars. That is not possible. That one who is to get by destiny... This is the śāstra. Actually, this is the fact.

*Therefore Vedic civilization does not recommend that you waste your valuable life simply for so*-called happiness or economic..., improvement of economic condition. Because it is not possible that everyone trying for improving economic condition and everyone is becoming millionaire. No. That is not possible. You cannot get more or less what you are destined to get. Otherwise everyone would have been millionaires-everyone. In Bombay there are so many. People are trying, working very hard day and night. Still, somebody is living in a very nice, palatial building and somebody is living in the Jappara, or what is that? Most abominable condition. In Bombay city. Why? Because one is destined.

*Therefore śāstra says that don't bother about these thing. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. For that reason, one should work, which is not obtainable by wandering, bhramatām upary adhaḥ. Upary adhaḥ. What is that? That thing is that purifying your existence. Tasyaiva hetoḥ, for that reason. Purifying means, as we have discussed many ślokas, we are now covered by this material nature, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, and our endeavor should be how to purify. Tapo divyam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Just to purify our existence. And as soon as we purify our existence, yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Brahma-sukha. Brahman means the largest or eternal. Here the sukha, or happiness, is not brahma-sukha; *that is material sukha. Therefore, in another place it is said, ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. The yogis, those who are yogis... Yogi especially means bhakta*-yogī. They also enjoy. Ramante yoginaḥ anante. That is unlimited enjoyment, without any stoppage. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Simply increasing, increasing. There is no decrease. That is called ananta. It is increasing. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs, they are also in pleasure. Gopīs are expansion of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. So they are increasing their pleasure. There is no decrease. In the material world there is no question of increasing; it is decreased. That is the difference.

*Therefore, those who are yogis, they are also enjoying. Ramante yoginaḥ anante satyānande. That is real happiness which increases. Which decreases, that is not real happiness. That is illusion. Ramante yoginaḥ anante satyānande cid-ātmani. Cit, that is spiritual, spiritual ānanda. Really we want ānanda, happiness, blissfulness. That is our natural instinct. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). So... But we are searching after ānanda in this material world, and that is described here that saṁsṛtir bandhaḥ pāra-tantrya, under material condition and changing this body one after another. This is not ānanda. Satyānande cid-ātmani. Ānanda is available on the spiritual platform. Satyānande cid-ātmani. Ramante... Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahma abhidhīyate. Therefore the yogis, they enjoy, ramaṇa, in the spiritual world. That ānanda is called Rāma, Hare Rāma. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is also attractive, and Rāma is enjoyment. So when we dovetail our activities with Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, then our life becomes happy. Before that there is saṁsṛtiḥ.

*Therefore in order to understand the science, one has to go... That is the Vedic injunction, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "One should approach a proper bona fide spiritual master." And the spiritual master will save him from this blazing fire of repetition of birth and death. Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura sings,

*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇārṇavasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*It is the business of the guru to deliver this disciple, śiṣya, from this blazing fire of saṁsāra, saṁsṛti, bandha, conditioned life, to save him from that position and give him the eternal happiness, brahma*-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1].



Thank you very much. (end)



741220SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.8

-

Bombay, December 20, 1974



Nitāi: "The cause of the conditioned soul's material body and senses, and the senses' presiding deities, the demigods, is the material nature. This is understood by learned men. The feelings of happiness and distress of the soul, who is transcendental by nature, are caused by the spirit soul himself."



Prabhupāda:



*kārya*-kāraṇa-kartṛtve

kāraṇaṁ prakṛtiṁ viduḥ

*bhoktṛtve sukha*-duḥkhānāṁ

puruṣaṁ prakṛteḥ param

[SB 3.26.8]



*Puruṣam. We are also prakṛti, but here it has been said, puruṣa. Living entity is prakṛti. Original position is prakṛti. Prakṛti means subordinate. We have got experience in this material world also: prakṛti, strī, and puruṣa, husband and wife. Natural position is that the wife is under or subordinate to the husband. At least that is the Vedic conception. Therefore woman places herself in the position of dāsī. Dāsī, maidservant. Even the queens of Kṛṣṇa, when... You will find in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, when there was talking between the queens and Draupadī at Kurukṣetra on some festival, that, as women, mixing together, they talk about their marriage, about their family, about their husband, so they were also talking. So Draupadī was asking the queens of Kṛṣṇa how they are married. Because in each time Kṛṣṇa had to fight to get the wife. That is the kṣatriya principle. Without fight, there is no marriage. There must be some fight. And after killing the opposing party, their blood is taken and smeared over it. This is red vermillion. Now it can be purchased. (laughter) There is no fight. You can purchase, two paisa, that's all. But formerly a kṣatriya must fight, and there were many opposing princes, and the victorious prince must kill or at least get some blood from the body, and as victorious, the wife will be smeared.



*Anyway, so the point is that even the queens of Kṛṣṇa, they are not ordinary woman, very exalted. So they were giving their acquaintances to Draupadī, "In this way I became a maidservant of Kṛṣṇa." You will find this in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Even the queens... Every queen possessed a big palatial building, and all the palaces were made of first-class marble, and the furnitures were made of ivory, and the beddings, and the within the room, there was no need of electrical bulb. They are set up with jewels, and they would throw the focus of light. And there was garden, pārijāta flower. You will find all these things in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And each queen had ten sons. And the sons were also married. They had sons. In this way, very, very opulent. But still, they were placing themself in the position of maidservant. They were also king's daughter, not ordinary being. So that is the Vedic conception. Of course, I do not know what is the practice here. But in Bengal this is the practice. When the son goes to marry to the bride's house, it is a custom. The mother asks the son, "My dear son, where you are going?" So the bridegroom answers, "I am going to bring one maidservant for you." This is the system.

*So the Vedic, according to the Vedic system, there is no equal right of the man and woman. The woman is always subordinate. That is the Manu-saṁhitā law. Na strī svātantryam arhati. A woman does not require, does not deserve, to get independence. That is good for them. If the woman remains under the protection*-in young age under father, when he (she) is child; when he (she) is young, under the protection of husband; *and when she is old, under the protection of elderly children*-that is their very safe position. Just like Kuntī. Kuntī was not ordinary woman. Still, she kept herself under the protection of the five sons. The sons were going to forest. Kuntī was not asked to go to the forest, but because she took it, to be protected by the sons, she also went to the forest. Just like Sītā-devī. Sītā, she was also king's daughter. When Rāmacandra was going to the forest, Rāmacandra did not ask also; *neither Sītā was asked by her father*-in-law to go to the forest. But she preferred to go with Rāmacandra just to be protected by Him. This is the system.

*Anyway, the living entities, they are described as prakṛti in the Bhagavad*-gītā, strī, not puruṣa. But here it is said, puruṣam, puruṣam, because in the material world we have given up the idea that constitutionally we are prakṛti, subordinate. We want to declare independence, not under the protection of Kṛṣṇa, or God. This is our position in this material world. Therefore the mentality is not to become prakṛti but to become puruṣa, the mentality. In the material world constitutionally the living entity is prakṛti. It is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho [Bg. 7.5]. The jīva-bhūta, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], prakṛti. But artificially, we are trying to become puruṣa. Ultimately, the same spirit is going on. As puruṣa is the enjoyer, we try to become independent enjoyer of this material world and baffled one after another, one after another, one after another, baffled, and at last, finally baffled still, he wants to become the supreme puruṣa, "I am God." This is māyā. Those who are claiming to become "I am God," they're still in māyā. Because he is prakṛti by nature, but he is still trying in the, first in the karma field as karmī, working day and night hard. But the purpose is that "I shall become the enjoyer. I shall become the Supreme."

*So on account of this puruṣa mentality the jīva is described here as puruṣa, puruṣam. And this puruṣa's position is prakṛteḥ param. Puruṣaṁ prakṛteḥ param. We do not belong to this material world. Prakṛteḥ param, transcendental. Because we are spirit soul, we belong to the spiritual world. Prakṛteḥ... This prakṛti is material. This prakṛti is material, but we are falsely identifying ourself as something made of this matter. The whole scientific world is going on under this misconception of life, that we belong to this material world. This is called illusion. Anyway, there are three things: kārya*-kāraṇa-kartṛtva kāraṇaṁ prakṛtiṁ viduḥ. We are doing something according to our position, kārya, kāraṇa, and kartā, so according to circumstances, according to different causes, and we are placed to execute different types of business, and we are obliged to do that. As soon as kāraṇam, kārya-kāraṇa-kartṛtve kāraṇaṁ puruṣa... kāraṇaṁ prakṛtim. Kārya-kāraṇa-kartṛtve kāraṇaṁ prakṛtim. Prakṛti. We accept this prakṛti because as soon as we develop this mentality, that "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I serve God? I shall become independent," so immediately we are placed in this material world.

*There is a verse in the Bhagavad*-gītā, icchā-dveṣa samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. Sarge means in creation. This is the creation, created world. The spiritual world is not created. That is eternal. How it is created? Just like the sky is eternal, but the cloud is created. That we have got experience. That is in the clear sky, clear sky is always there, but at some time, seasonal changes, the cloud is created. The water is taken from the..., the stock is already there, taken from the sea, ocean, and it is made into gas, and that appears as cloud. And it covers the sun. The sun is the cause of cloud, but the cloud covers the sun and we cannot see the sun. Similarly, everything-creator is the Supreme Lord. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This material world is also created by God, and the work is going on. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10].

*So everything is going on under the direction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, but according to our position, we are enjoying different result. Not enjoying-suffering. Here there is no question of enjoyment. It is suffering. So this prakṛti, this material nature, is creating the situation*-we have discussed already many times-according to our... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. As we are associating with different modes of material nature or infecting different modes of material nature, so we are getting different situation, different body, different activities. The original cause is the material nature. Then we can say, "Then why we are suffering? Everything is given by the material nature. Why?" No. That is stated here, that bhoktṛtve sukha-duḥkhānāṁ puruṣaṁ prakṛteḥ param. The material nature is creating the situation for your suffering, so she is not responsible. You have to suffer. This is our position. You cannot say that "Material nature is creating. Why I shall suffer?" No. Just like if you say, "I did not know when I infected this disease, so why shall I suffer from it?" No. Because you have, somehow or other you have infected some type of disease, you must suffer. This is our position. Because you have come to this material nature and you have infected a certain quality or modes of material nature, the resultant action you have to suffer. Although the body is given to you by material nature, the bodily pains and pleasure, that you have to suffer. This is our position.

*That means because we have come to this material nature... How we have come to material nature? That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that icchā-dveṣa samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. Icchā-dveṣa. There are two things: hatred and desire. Something we desire and something we hate, icchā-dveṣa. Two kinds of propensities there are. So when we want to enjoy this material world, that is called icchā, and when we want to disobey God, that is called dveṣa. So that icchā and dveṣa, there can be. That is two opposing elements. There are. So icchā-dveṣa samutthena. When we think... That is not very difficult to understand. Everyone is thinking, "Why shall I worship God? These are all bogus things, they are going to the temple. No." That propensity is there, dveṣa. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu [Bg. 16.19], Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān. These persons who are envious of God and krūrān... Krūra means, krūra also, envious, very, very atheistic. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. This is āsuri-bhāva. When we become envious, atheist, godless, without any God consciousness, that is called atheism. That is dveṣa.

*You will find... All the demons*-we have got description in the śāstra-their only business is to become envious of God, that's all. This is the business. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa, as soon as he heard one omen that this eighth son of his sister, Devakī, would kill him, immediately he became furious: "Oh, let me finish my sister so that there will be no eighth or first or second son. Finish the origin of..." So anyway, Vasudeva saved her. It is the duty of the husband to save, give protection to the wife. So some way or other... It was a family matter. But he promised that "I shall bring all the children to you." So this is Kaṁsa. And actually, Vasudeva, to keep his word, brought all the issues before him, and he killed. Only in case of Kṛṣṇa, he violated the promise: "No, no, I cannot allow this child to be killed." So he transferred the child from Devakī's protection to Mother Yaśodā's protection. So anyway...

So the Kaṁsa was thinking of killing Kṛṣṇa always. He was also Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of, but how to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between the demon and the devotee. The demons are also Kṛṣṇa conscious, but they are Kṛṣṇa conscious in the opposite way, how to kill Kṛṣṇa. And devotees, they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, but not like the demon. They are always thinking how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Both of them are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore, this is... Because these demons are also Kṛṣṇa conscious, they cannot be called devotee. They cannot be called devotee. But they get the good result of Kṛṣṇa consciousness because by thinking of Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa..." And when they are killed by Kṛṣṇa, they get immediately liberation. That is the absolute position of Kṛṣṇa. Either you go to Him as enemy or you go to Him as friend, your result is the same. So somehow or other, come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the demonic Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not bhakti. That is not bhakti.

*So liberation is achievable even by the nondevotees because these demons... They are nondevotees. They are getting also liberation because thinking of Kṛṣṇa always. So why the devotees also get the same type of liberation? No, for them, better type of liberation. Sāyujya, sārūpya, sārṣṭi... [Cc. Madhya 6.266]. There are five kinds of liberations, and the sāyujya-mukti, to become one with the Supreme, that is obtainable even by the enemies, demons. The devotees, they do not want that kind of liberation. They want to keep their identity eternally and serve Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect. So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Therefore bhakti is described, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Anuśīlanam means cultivating the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. The demons are also cultivating, but that is not ānukūlyena. That is prātikūlyena, how to kill Kṛṣṇa. So that is not bhakti. When we cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness ānukūlyena-anukūla means favorable*-that is called bhakti.

So here it is said that,

*kārya*-kāraṇa-kartṛtve

kāraṇaṁ prakṛtiṁ viduḥ

*bhoktṛtve sukha*-duḥkhānāṁ

puruṣaṁ prakṛteḥ param



*Puruṣa, we living entities, because we have developed this consciousness somehow or other, that we don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa, but we want to become Kṛṣṇa, this prātikūlya, this icchā, and not to serve Kṛṣṇa, this dveṣa, two things combined... Icchā-dveṣa samutthena sarge yānti parantapa. They cannot... Just like I will give you very small example: just like the criminals. The criminals, they have got two things: icchā, dveṣa. Dveṣa: "Why shall I abide by the government law? I can do anything, what I like." This is dveṣa. And icchā means, "I shall work independently, without the law." So just like this icchā-dveṣa, the result is they are put into the jail. On account of these two things-icchā, that "I shall live independently without the control of the government. Whatever I like, I shall do," this icchā, and dveṣa, "I don't like to carry out the orders of law," dveṣa-this is very nice example*-the result is that he will be arrested, and he will be put into the jail.



So it is exactly like that. We are in this material world on account of this icchā and dveṣa. We wanted to satisfy the senses, material senses, independently. And we wanted to disobey the orders of the Supreme Lord. These are the two causes for which we are put into this material world. So we have to rectify this mentality, that "I am independent. I am God. I can do whatever we like." This mentality has to be rectified. For that rectification we are in this material world, and we are undergoing different types of miserable condition of life to become rectified so that we may come to the senses, that "I want to be happy. I want to enjoy life. Why I am put into this unfavorable circumstances? The most unfavorable circumstance is that I do not want to die. Still, I have to die." This is common sense. So in order to... On account of this puruṣa mentality... Just like I have already explained the strī can enjoy happy life along with the husband, not independently, similarly, we, being prakṛti, our business is to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Then we will be happy. Otherwise we will not be happy. It is not possible.

And the whole material world, whole Vedic śāstra, whole Vedic culture is meant for rectifying this mentality, that "I am not independent. I am dependent on Kṛṣṇa. So I have forgotten Kṛṣṇa somehow or other, and I have taken this mentality of puruṣa, enjoying this material world. I have to rectify this." So if I rectify that, then I become free from the clutches of māyā. Otherwise, since I have put myself under the clutches of this material energy, she is giving me different types of body, different types of situation, to fulfill my desire. But because she has given a different type of body, a different type situation, she is not responsible; I am responsible. Therefore I will have to suffer or enjoy of the sequence or the resultant action made by the material nature.

*Therefore it is said that kārya*-kāraṇa-kartṛtve kāraṇaṁ prakṛtiṁ viduḥ. One should understand the... I have got this body. This is given by material nature. I have got a different type of mentality. That is also given by prakṛti, na... I am suffering. That is also given. There is circumstances created. But prakṛti, material nature, is not responsible, nor she will suffer, but you will suffer. Just try to understand. This is the position. Kārya-kāraṇa-kartṛtve bhoktṛtve. Kartṛtve is material nature. But bhoktṛtve I am, bhoktṛtve. I am put into that. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, anādi karama-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale: "Somehow or other, I have fallen in this ocean of birth and death." Taribāre nā dekhi upāy: "I do not find how to get out of it." But we can get out of it very easily. That is advised by Kṛṣṇa: mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Otherwise you cannot. Here it is a great struggle. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Karṣati, great hard struggle going on. We are trying to be happy, but that is not possible. Just like if you are put into the ocean, you may be very good swimmer, you may struggle very nicely, but you are under the control of the prakṛti. You cannot be happy in the water. But if somebody helps you to get out of the water, then you will be happy.

*So our business is to pray to Kṛṣṇa to get me out of this struggling, hard struggle for existence in this material world. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaching us this prayer, no other prayer. Ayi nanda*-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau. "O Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa is very pleased when we address Him with His devotee. Nanda Mahārāja is devotee playing as the father of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is addressing Kṛṣṇa, ayi nanda-tanuja: "Kṛṣṇa, You are born out of the body of Mahārāja Nanda." This is very pleasing to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is addressing, ayi nanda-tanuja, patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame. Patitaṁ kiṅkaram. Kiṅkaram means servant. "I am Your eternal servant, but somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean of nescience, repeated birth and death." Patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau. Kṛpayā: "By Your causeless mercy, because I am servant... I have somehow or other fallen." Kṛpayā tava pāda-paṅkaja-sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśaṁ vicintaya: "Kindly fix me again as one of the dust particle in Your lotus feet." This prayer has been tak...

*So we cannot be happy in this puruṣa mentality to enjoy this material world. We can never be happy. Ābrahma*-bhuvanāl lokāḥ. Even if you are... Now, just like they are trying to go to the moon planet... But what this moon planet? It is very near. Even if you go to the topmost planet, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16], the struggle will go on. You cannot be happy. Either you go to the heavenly planet or the moon planet or the Brahmā planet, anywhere in this material world, the four things-birth, death, old age, and disease-will go on. You cannot stop it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Don't try to be elevated to the higher planetary system, to the moon planet or sun planet or heavenly planet. Try to come to Me." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6].

*This should be our endeavor. Don't try to elevate yourself materially. That will not make you happy. Just try to get out of these material clutches and begin your spiritual life. That will make you happy. That is the only source of happiness. Otherwise it is not. The same example, that if you are put into the ocean, you may be very good swimmer*-it will be great struggle. You can keep yourself floating, but that is not happiness. Happiness is different thing. If you want happiness, then you have to give up the association of prakṛti. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. Because as so long you will be in the material world, you will have to associate with some of the modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. By association with the sattva-guṇa material modes of nature, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18], you can be elevated to the higher planetary system, or by jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, by associate in the tamo-guṇa, you will be put downwards either in the animal forms of life or lower planetary system. In this way you are wandering up and down. Give up this business. Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



741221SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.9

-

Bombay, December 21, 1974



Nitāi: "Devahūti said: O Supreme Personality of Godhead, kindly explain the characteristics of the Supreme Person and His energies, because both of these are the causes of this manifest and unmanifest creation."



Prabhupāda:



prakṛteḥ puruṣasyāpi

lakṣaṇaṁ puruṣottama

brūhi kāraṇayor asya

*sad*-asac ca yad-ātmakam

[SB 3.26.9]



*So Kapiladeva is addressed here as Puruṣottama. Puruṣottama. The living entities, the Supersoul, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Living entities are sometimes called puruṣa because puruṣa means enjoyer. So the living entities wants to enjoy this material world although he is not enjoyer. We have explained many times. The living entities, that is also prakṛti, but he also wants to enjoy. That is called illusion. So in his enjoying temperament he may be called puruṣa, illusory puruṣa. Real puruṣa is Bhagavān. Puruṣa means bhoktā. The bhoktā, real bhoktā, enjoyer, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29].



*So Devahūti wants elucidation of the characteristics of puruṣa and prakṛti. So puruṣa is one, but prakṛti, there are many, energies. Prakṛti, energy. Just like we have got practical experience that husband and wife, the wife is supposed to be the energy. The husband works day and night very hard, but when he comes home, the wife gives him comfort, eating, sleeping, mating, in so many ways. He gets fresh energy. Especially the karmīs, they get energy by the behavior and service of the wife. Otherwise the karmīs cannot work. Anyway, the energy principle is there. Similarly, the Supreme Lord, He has got also energy. In the Vedānta*-sūtra we understand that Supreme Personality of Godhead, the original source of everything, Brahman... athāto brahma jijñāsā. That Brahman... In one code Vyāsadeva describes that janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The Brahman, Supreme Absolute Truth, is that from whom everything comes." So unless this principle is there, that Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is also energized or worked with His energies; otherwise why this conception comes within this material world? The material world is shadow reflection of the spiritual world. Unless the original thing is there in the spiritual world, it cannot be reflected in the material world.

So puruṣa is accompanied by varieties of energies. In the Upaniṣad it is stated,

na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate

*na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate...

[Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]



*Para, the Supreme Lord, Absolute Truth, has multi-energy. So the multi-energy is divided into three division. That is called antaraṅga-śakti, internal energy, external energy, and the marginal energy. All of them are energies, or prakṛti. So in the Sāṅkhya philosophical discussion, Devahūti-she is also the mother of Kapiladeva*-she asked this intelligent question: "What are the characteristic of the prakṛti, and what are the characteristic of the puruṣa?" Prakṛteḥ puruṣasyāpi lakṣaṇaṁ puruṣottama. He (she) is addressing his (her) son, Kapiladeva, God, as Puruṣottama. Uttama puruṣa. Uttam a, madhyama, and adhama. There is a comparative. So uttama puruṣa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, or His incarnation like Kapiladeva, Ṛṣabhadeva. There are many incarnations. So they are all Puruṣottama.



*So, so far in this material conception of life there are two puruṣas, one, the living entity, and the other is the Supersoul. So above this... Living entity is the adhama*-puruṣa, and the Supersoul is the madhyama-puruṣa, and Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is uttama-puruṣa, the Supreme. And in this material world the adhama-puruṣa is called also nitya-baddha. Similarly, there are other living entities in the spiritual world, they are called nitya-mukta or nitya-siddha. They never come in this material world. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. In his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, he describes some comparison, that the sea fishes, they never come to the river. The river fishes sometimes go to the sea, but the sea fishes, they never come to the river. Similarly, there are living entities in the spiritual world. They never come in this material world. Their number is greater, at least three times greater than all the living entities within this material world. And the Supersoul, He is also living entity, but superior, Supersoul. Soul and Supersoul.

*So the Supersoul is also living with the..., along with this ordinary living entities as friends. That is described in the Upaniṣad, that two birds are sitting on one tree. One bird is eating the fruit and the other bird is simply witness. Paramātmā, upadraṣṭā anumantā. That is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Paramātmā is existing within our heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He is simply upadraṣṭā. He is not enjoying. He has no interest to enjoy this material world. But the other bird, the living entity, he is trying to enjoy this material world. And according to his karma, upadraṣṭā... I wanted to do something or I have done something. The resultant action, I will have to enjoy or suffer in the next life. The witness is the Paramātmā, sākṣī, upadraṣṭā anumantā, antaryāmī, sākṣī. We cannot do anything without the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His Paramātmā feature. He is fulfilling our desires and waiting for the opportunity when the living entity will give up this business of eating the fruit of this body, of the tree, and simply become engaged, again come back to the Supersoul. That opportunity He is looking after. So the Christian philosophers, they do not believe in the Paramātmā feature, and they say that "If I am punished for my past deeds, then who is the witness?" Because in the court, if somebody is charged with criminality, there must be some witnesses. So we heard a Christian professor in our college. They did not believe in this witness of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is witness within the heart. Witness must be. This is very intelligent, that without witness, how my charges, charges upon me, can be substantiated? The witness is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Upadraṣṭā anumantā. He is seeing everything. So that is puruṣa also, and we are also puruṣa. And above these two puruṣas, the Supreme Puruṣa is Kṛṣṇa, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eighth Chapter, puruṣottama-yogam.

*So brūhi kāraṇayor asya sad*-asac ca yad-ātmakam. So the uttama-puruṣa, Puruṣottama, just like Kṛṣṇa or Kapiladeva, They come within this material world, but they are not affected. But we are affected. We are, according to our desire, conditioned. We are affected by the different modes of material nature. It is described in the Vedic literature just like the fire and the spark. The fire is always blazing, but the sparks coming out of the fire, they sometime fall down. And this falling down is described that if the spark falls on some dry grass, then immediately the grass is also ignited into fire. That is sattva-guṇa. And rajo-guṇa means on the ground. It gradually, the ignition, the fire of the spark, becomes finished. And if the spark falls down on some water, then immediately it is extinguished. Similarly, when we come down from the spiritual world on account of desire, icchā-dveṣa samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27], by our icchā, Kṛṣṇa gives us to fulfill our desires. So as we contact with the different modes of material nature, we are situated either in sattva-guṇa or rajo-guṇa or tamo-guṇa, and our different characteristics are visible.

But the Puruṣottama, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is never become affected by the material nature. This is the general description of the puruṣa and puruṣottama. And further description will be given from the verse number ten. If you like, you can read that. Or you can read this purport of the ninth verse.

Nitāi: "Prakṛti, or material nature, is connected with both the Supreme Lord and the living entities, just as a woman is connected with her husband as a wife and with her children as a mother."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very nice example. This prakṛti, the mother... Just like mother is woman, prakṛti, but her relationship with the husband is different from the relationship with her children. So both of them are puruṣa*-living entities and the Supersoul, or the Supreme Lord. They come to this material world. But the relationship is that the Supreme Lord is the controller, controller of the material world, and the living entities, they are controlled. This is difference. One is controller, and the other is controlled. The same woman, mother, she is working under the direction of the husband. That is one relationship. And she is taking care of the children and controlling the children. The... Although the medium is the same, but the relationship is different.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, it is said, mama māyā: "Under My control."

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*We should understand this relationship. The material nature has got relationship with both God and the living entities, but the activities of the two living entities, namely the aṇu and vibhu... God is Vibhu or Prabhu, and living entity is aṇu or servant, and the via media is the material nature. So we cannot control material nature. That is not possible. We are controlled. We are being controlled. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair mohitam, nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. We are always being controlled. And... But the prakṛti, material nature, is being controlled by the Supreme Lord. This is the difference. Unfortunately, sometimes we claim that we can control over. Just like the scientists, they are trying to control over the material nature. That is not possible. You cannot control. Therefore, in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot control. You shall be controlled, but you cannot control. The controller is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa [Bg. 9.10].



*This is the relation. This is the characteristic, two puruṣas: one living entity and the Supreme Soul, parama*-puruṣa or puruṣottama. The puruṣottama is the controller, and we ordinary living entities, we are controlled. Then how the living entities can be on the equal level with the Supreme Lord? That is not possible. Anyone who thinks like that, they are imperfect knowledge. That is not perfect knowledge. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. They have been described as aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Imperfect knowledge. Buddhi means intelligence. They have no intelligence. We cannot say no intelligence, but aviśuddha. Aviśuddha, means it is not purified. Anyone who is claiming to be on the equal level with the Supreme, their intelligence is not yet purified. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because these Māyāvādī philosophers, they have no knowledge of the Supreme Personality of... They cannot believe that the Absolute Truth can be a person. They cannot believe it. Their knowledge is so poor, they cannot accommodate. Because as soon as they think of one person, they think that "That person is equal with me." Otherwise, they cannot think of person.

*So this is poor fund of knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. He does not become manifest or visible to everyone. Then who..., unto whom He is visible? And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. So unless you take to this process of bhakti-yoga, you cannot understand what is God. Then you will be misguided. So if you take... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. You cannot, understand God. But if you take to the devotional service submissively, if you become submissive, surrendered, and you render service to the Lord, then, by His causeless mercy, He becomes revealed, "Here I am. See Me." He talks.

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ tam...

[Bg. 10.10]



*Then He gives intelligence. What kind of intelligence? Yena mām upayānti te: "By which one can approach Me." This intelligence is given to him. To whom? Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānām. Twenty-four hours engaged in the service of the Lord. How? Prīti-pūrvakam: "With love and faith," not that officially. Just like if I want a glass of water, one can give me, "Here is. Take it!" And one brings the same glass of water with love and devotion. So there is two different. Kṛṣṇa is not in want of anything from us. He is pūrṇa. But if we offer Him something with love and faith and devotion, then He accepts. That is the difference. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. That is the real thing, bhakti. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is not hankering after your patraṁ puṣpam. He has created patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, He can enjoy. Why He should ask from you? But the real thing is bhaktyā. It is insignificant thing, but if you offer Him bhaktyā, with bhakti, devotion, faith, and love, that He accepts. And if He continues to accept, then you can realize Him. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Otherwise you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



*So we have come to this material world. Kṛṣṇa is always anxious to get us back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore He comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. What is that dharma? That dharma is not this dharma, Hindu dharma, Mussulman dharma. No. That dharma is sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That's... So in this way, our position, although we are both in this material world, one is the controller; *one is the controlled. And the one who is controlled by the prakṛti, by the material nature, if he accepts to be controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then his controlling by the material nature upon him, that is finished, no more control. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. This is perfection of life. At the present moment we are being controlled every second, every step. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. Every step there is danger. This control means punishment. You cannot expect very good treatment in the prison life. So this is prison life, conditioned life. So you cannot expect any good treatment by the material nature because her business is to punish us. That is the business so that we can enquire that "Why I am being punished?" That is required. That "why" philosophy is very important. That is the beginning of human life. But we are so dull, in spite of being kicked every moment by material nature, that "why" question is not coming, so dull*-headed. And we are advanced in designation.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



741222SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.10

-

Bombay, December 22, 1974



Nitāi: "The unmanifested eternal combination of the three modes is the cause of the manifested state and is called pradhāna. It is called prakṛti when in the manifested stage of existence."



Prabhupāda:



*yat tat tri*-guṇam avyaktaṁ

*nityaṁ sad*-asad-ātmakam

pradhānaṁ prakṛtiṁ prāhur

aviśeṣaṁ viśeṣavat

[SB 3.26.10]



Viśeṣa means varieties, and aviśeṣa means without variety. Just like we have got experience: the earth is there. Now, if... From the earth, you can make so many other things. You can make doll. You can make pot. You can make balls. You can make bricks. You can make house. So many things you can make. So this transformation into forms, that is called viśeṣa, varieties. And when the transformation is not there, that is called aviśeṣa or nirviśeṣa.



*So viśeṣavat. The word is used here, viśeṣavat. It appears like viśeṣa, variety, but actually it has no variety. It is the material element. In another place it is said, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayo yatra tri-sargaḥ amṛṣā. Somebody says, amṛṣā. It is created. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said this creation is going on, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It is created at a certain time, and then again it is annihilated. And when annihilated, mixed together, that is avyaktam. And when they are again created into forms, that is called vyaktam. Just like you take a lump of gold and prepare many ornaments. You can make bangles, you can make necklace, earring, and so many things. And again melt it*-it becomes lump of gold. So that is the distinction between vyaktam and avyaktam. When they are made into varieties, that is called vyaktam, and when it is again mixed together, then it is called avyaktam.

*So śrī*-bhagavān uvāca. Kapiladeva is speaking, He is Bhagavān. The word Bhagavān we have explained several times. Bhagavān is person. Uvāca. Bhagavān said... "Bhagavān said" means Bhagavān is person. Unless one is person, he cannot say, he cannot speak. So the source of knowledge is Bhagavān. Bhagavān is the origin. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, aham evāsam agre: "Before the creation, I was there." And when Bhagavān speaks "I was there," that means He was not alone. Just like here is Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, He is not alone. He is with Rādhārāṇī and the gopīs and the cowherds boy and His friends. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Bhagavān is not alone.

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



*ālola*-candraka-lasad-vanamālya-vaṁśī-

*ratnāṅgadaṁ praṇaya*-keli-kalā-vilāsam

*śyāmaṁ tribhaṅga*-lalitaṁ niyata-prakāśaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.31]



There are hundreds of verses like this.



*So Kṛṣṇa is not alone. Kṛṣṇa is always in varieties. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). He is ānandamaya.

*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*He is ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa is not nirviśeṣa; *He is saviśeṣa. But this material world is actually nirviśeṣa, but it appears something like varieties. The same thing, the example, I have already given: a lump of matter-either you take earth or water or gold or silver*-and you can make varieties of things, cause and effect. But that is nirviśeṣa. But the spiritual world, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], as it is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, the origin of everything, the cause of all causes, that is full of spiritual varieties. That is not nirviśeṣa. Here in this material world we are seeing these varieties. We have got these planets. On the planets there are so many mountains, so many trees, so many plants, so many houses, in each and every planet. Don't think the other planets, that is void. No. They are also full of varieties. Full of varieties.



*We get information: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Vibhūti-bhinnam, different varieties. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's creation, they are full of varieties, anywhere you go. Vibhūti-bhinnam. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi [Bs. 5.40]. Vasudhā means planet. Vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam. In every vasudhā, in every planet, there are different atmosphere. Just like we get information from here by the scientists that the moon planet, the temperature is two hundred degrees below zero. So that is another variety. Similarly, on the sun planet many thousand times temperature, thousand times the temperature is very, very high. Fire, it is almost fire. So vibhūti-bhinnam. Different planets, different.

*So these varieties are material varieties. Material varieties means when it is nonmanifested, it is called pradhāna, and when it is manifested, it is called prakṛti, or nature, material nature. But these varieties, the material pradhāna... Pradhāna is nityam, but the prakṛti is not nityam. Nityam means eternal. But there is another world, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. That is sanātanaḥ. That is eternal. We have got this experience of this material world. This is not eternal. This is... Just we have got experience of this body. This body is created at a certain stage, and it will stay for some time, and it will transform into many other forms from this body, and then it will dwindle, and then it will vanish. Similarly, the whole material creation is like that. It is created by the interaction of the three modes of material nature. First of all it is a lump of matter, mahat*-tattva. It is called mahat-tattva. That mahat-tattva is above this universe, above the sky. Above the sky there are seven layers. Each layer is ten times more than the other layer. In this way, that is called mahat-tattva. Total material elements, they are stocked there. And then these varieties take place. And above that mahat-tattva, there is spiritual world, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20], another material nature. That is called Brahmaloka or Vaikuṇṭhaloka. There are also spiritual planets. And above all such planets...

*Just like in this material world there are millions of planets and the topmost planet is called Brahmaloka, where Brahmā lives. From Brahmā, all other things are created. So beyond that... This is manifested, prakṛti. Beyond that, there is nonmanifested, total stock. That is called avyakta or pradhāna. And beyond that, there is the spiritual world. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another bhāva, or nature. Bhāva, svabhāva, or nature*-the same word. So that is sanātana. When everything will be annihilated in this material world... Because material world... Anything in this material world, it will be annihilated at a certain stage. Just like my body will be annihilated. Anything. This table will be annihilated. This microphone will be annihilated. Anything will be annihilated. But there, the same things are there, but they are eternal and spiritual. They are eternal; *they are never to be... Even after annihilation of this whole cosmic manifestation, the spiritual varieties will not be annihilated. This information we get from Bhagavad*-gītā and other Vedic literature.

So Kapiladeva, the Personality of Godhead, He is person. We should always know that Bhagavān, Bhagavān is person, full of six opulences. And because He is full of six opulences, therefore He has got His form.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*His vigraha, His form, is not like our form. And because we do not know that Kṛṣṇa has got His spiritual form, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, therefore ordinary man thinks that "Kṛṣṇa is also a man like me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum aśritam [Bg. 9.11]. One who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, he says, "Kṛṣṇa is also a man like me. Kṛṣṇa also gets a body like me." But that is not the fact. Those who do not know about Kṛṣṇa... Because to know Kṛṣṇa, that is not ordinary thing.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*"Out of many persons, they are trying for self*-realization, siddhi." That is called siddhi. "And out of many thousands and millions of siddhas"-siddhas means one who is self-realized; they are called siddhas-"out of them, one may know what is Kṛṣṇa." So Kṛṣṇa cannot be known by ordinary human being. One must be first of all siddha; then, out of the siddhas, the most topmost siddha, he can understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He comes personally and manifests Himself. Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham.

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



"When I appear..." There is time. In one day of Brahmā, Kṛṣṇa appears. Everything is there in the śāstra. That means some millions of years after, once Kṛṣṇa comes within this universe. And when He comes, He comes on this planet and in Vṛndāvana. Therefore Vṛndāvana is so important. This Vṛndāvana is replica of the original Vṛndāvana. There is Kṛṣṇa's place.



*goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya

*devī*-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu

*te te prabhāva*-nicayā vihitāś ca yena

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.43]



*There is the topmost planet in the spiritual world which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. So below the Goloka Vṛndāvana... Goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya [Bs. 5.43]. Everything is below the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. And all of them are called devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu [Bs. 5.43]. Devī-dhāma, the devī-dhāma means this material world. This is controlled by Devī, Durgā.



*sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.44]



*The Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Govinda is ādi-puruṣa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the original source of all, everything." So the devī-dhāma, the maheśa-dhāma, and the hari-dhāma, they are all expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. The whole spiritual world and the material world is manifestation of the energy of Kṛṣṇa.



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



One who understands this science... Iti matvā bhajante mām. Who? Now, budha, one who has understood very perfectly well through the śāstra, through sādhu. Sādhu, śāstra, guru. The source of information is sādhu, śāstra, guru.



*That is also recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*So we have to approach to a guru, tattva*-darśī. Tattva-darśī. Tattva-darśī means... What is tattva? Tattva means truth. One who has seen the truth. We have to approach such tattva-darśī. And what is that tattva?



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*Tattva means the tattva*-vastu, the Absolute Truth, is manifested in three features: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. They are actually the same thing, but different realization.



*I have given several times this example: Just like the sunshine, the sun globe, and the sun-god, Nārāyaṇa, within the sun globe, that is one thing. One thing means that Nārāyaṇa within the sun globe, his bodily effulgence is so glowing and bright. This is called sun's blazing effulgence. So the sunshine is also expansion of that glowing effulgence. So they are one thing. Just like fire. Fire, direct fire, temperature, and just outside the fire, temperature, and the heat of the fire outside-although they are one, but the temperature different. Similarly, the sun-god and the sun globe and the sunshine, they are one, but different temperature. So one who knows this... That means one who knows that the Brahman effulgence is just like the sunshine outside, and the Paramātmā feature is the expansion of the Supreme Lord everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu. He is everywhere, even within the atom. That is Paramātmā feature. And ultimately it is coming from Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. So one has to understand. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Budha. Budha means one who knows. So such person we have to... Tattva-darśī, one who knows what is tattva, what is Brahman, what is Paramātmā, what is Bhagavān*-we have to approach such person. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12].

*So in this way, as Devahūti... Devahūti is the mother of Kapiladeva, but she is taken instruction from his (her) son. His (her) son is... Kapiladeva is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So it doesn't matter whether God appears as my son or guru or father. God is there always. So we have to take knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is perfect knowledge. Because He is the origin of everything. Govindam ādi*-puruṣam. Ādi-puru... The original person. So if we take lessons from the original person, that is perfect knowledge. Otherwise it is imperfect knowledge. So that... Somebody was asking about the paramparā. So that paramparā is very necessary, to know the knowledge by the paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Paramparā is very important thing. Therefore, unless we take to the paramparā system, which is, in another word, it is called sampradāya... Sampradāya.

*So to understand the Absolute Truth, there are four recognized sampradāyas: the Brahma*-sampradāya, the Rudra-sampradāya, the Kumāra-sampradāya, and the Śrī-sampradāya. Śrī-sampradāya mean one sampradāya is coming from directly from the goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī. That is called Śrī-sampradāya. And one sampradāya is coming from Lord Brahmā. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. The ādi-kavi is Lord Brahmā. He learned from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Tene brahma hṛdā. The Supreme Personality of Godhead instructed Lord Brahmā from within the heart: tene brahma hṛdā. Hṛdā means within the heart. So in this way, instruction is received from Lord Brahmā, from Lord Śiva, from Lakṣmījī the goddess of fortune, and the Kumāras, Sanat-kumāra, Sanaka, Sanātana, Sananda Kumāra. They have got a sampradāya. So we have to approach the sampradāya. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Abhigacchet: "must approach the sampradāya," either of the sampradāya. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ: "If you don't take your instruction, mantra, from the sampradāya, then it is useless." It has no meaning, because they do not know. Therefore we have to take sampradāya, accept sampradāya.

*So there are four sampradāyas of the Vaiṣṇavas. At the present moment they are known as Madhva*-sampradāya, or Madhva-Gauḍīya-sampradāya; *or Rāmānuja*-sampradāya; *or Viṣṇu Svāmī*-sampradāya; *and Nimbārka*-sampradāya. Here in Bombay, Vallabha-sampradāya, they belong to the Viṣṇu Svāmī-sampradāya. So we have to approach the sampradāya. Without sampradāya, whatever we learn, that is not perfect. Sampradāya-vihīnās ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ. Just like we have got very nice example that in political field there are parties: "This is Congress party," "This is Communist party," "This is..." So these parties are recognized. Unless you belong to some party, you cannot stand for election. As it is there in the political field, sampradāya-vihīnā ye, they cannot stand, similarly, if one person who desires to advance in spiritual life, he must take initiation from the sampradāya.

*So we belong to the Gauḍīya*-sampradāya. Gauḍīya means, Gauḍīya... Gauḍa-deśa is called Bengal. There are pañca-gauḍa. Punjab is also called Gauḍa-deśa. There are five gauḍa and five draviḍa. In southern India, they are called draviḍa, and in the north India, they are called gauḍa-deśa. So Gauḍa, Bengal is also Gauḍa, and the Vaiṣṇavas belonging to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult, they are called Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇava, Bengali Vaiṣṇava. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu happened to be a Bengali, but He belonged to the Madhva-sampradāya. His guru was Īśvara Purī, and his guru, Īśvara Purī's guru, was Mādhavendra Purī. And Mādhavendra Purī belonged to Madhvācārya-sampradāya. The Gopāla, the Nāthadvāra Gopāla, that belonged to... Originally it was owned by Mādhavendra Purī. Then it was delivered, the Deity was delivered, to the Viṣṇu Svāmī-sampradāya.

*So anyway, if we require knowledge, factual knowledge, we must receive it directly from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is perfect knowledge. Therefore Devahūti is receiving knowledge. Although Kapiladeva is his (her) son, but because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he (she) is taking knowledge from Him. And if we take knowledge from Him also-everything is there in the book-then that is perfect knowledge. Therefore it is said, bhagavān uvāca. As Bhagavān is complete, pūrṇa, pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate*-He is pūrṇa, sampūrṇa, complete-so that knowledge is perfect.

*So Kapiladeva is giving knowledge, beginning how the creation, the material creation, is begun. He is beginning from that point of view. Pradhānaṁ prakṛtiṁ sad*-asat and yat tat tri-guṇātmakam. This material world is tri-guṇamayī, tri-guṇātmakam, or tri-guṇamayī, the same thing. As Kṛṣṇa said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī, guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. Guṇa. This material world, this prakṛti, is guṇamayī; *there are three modes of material nature. So we are controlled by these tri*-guṇamayī, and we have to become guṇātītam. As Kṛṣṇa advises to Arjuna, traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna: "You just try to become above the three guṇas." That is human life. Human life is not meant for remaining within the category of these three guṇas and struggle for existence. That is not human life. That is animal life.

*mamaivāṁśo jīva*-loke

*jīva*-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

*prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati

[Bg. 15.7]



*Kṛṣṇa said that "The living entities, they are My part and parcel. They are as good as I am." But because the part and parcel of gold is also gold... It is nothing else. It may be small gold, but it is gold. Similarly, we may be very small fragmental part of the Supreme Person, Brahman, but we are Brahman. This is Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is Brahman realization. It is not very difficult. If you simply understand that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa," that is Brahma*-jñāna. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. It does not take very much time, but it requires little brain, that "If I am part and parcel of God, then I must be qualitatively the same." Part of gold is also gold.



*So that self*-realization is not very difficult. But it requires a little fortune and intelligence. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. These big, big saintly person, they are undergoing severe penances and austerities to understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi. But if you believe in the Bhagavad-gītā statement, Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "The living entities are My part and parcel." So if Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman... Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. This is accepted by Arjuna when he heard Bhagavad-gītā. At the end, he is accepting, "Kṛṣṇa, You are Parabrahman." So if we are part and parcel of Parabrahman, then we must be Brahman. Where is the difficulty? So this brahmāham, brahmāsmi, this Brahman realization, can be understood in a moment if you believe Bhagavad-gītā as it is. But if you foolishly interpret in this way and that way, then it will take millions of years. You will not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, what is God, what is... But if you take it as it is, then immediately you can understand that you are Brahman. There is no difficulty.

*So what is the duty of the part and parcel? That is also very easy to understand. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. So what is the duty of the finger? I ask the finger, "Please come here." It comes immediately. I ask the finger, "Come here." So that means service. Therefore part and parcel's duty is... Just like in a office, if I say, "This man is one of our part," or "one of my partner," a partner means he is working for the same interest. That is partner. So similarly, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa*-that means we must be partner of Kṛṣṇa. And what Kṛṣṇa wants? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. He wants. So as partner of Kṛṣṇa, you should preach that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is your business.

Thank you very much. (end)



741223SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.11-14

-

Bombay, December 23, 1974



Nitāi: "The aggregate elements, namely the five gross elements, the five subtle elements, the four internal senses, the five senses for gathering knowledge, and the five outward organs of action, are known as the pradhāna."



Prabhupāda:



pañcabhiḥ pañcabhir brahma

caturbhir daśabhis tathā

*etac catur*-viṁśatikaṁ

gaṇaṁ prādhānikaṁ viduḥ

[SB 3.26.11]



*Pradhāna. Prakṛti, puruṣa, pradhāna. So pradhāna is the total material energy, which is called mahat*-tattva. We have discussed this subject matter last night, mahat-tattva. So mahat-tattva is the original total energy for material creation. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, Mukunda, is sometime described as mahat-padam. Mahat-padam. Mahat-padam means "under whose lotus feet this whole total material energy is resting." Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Samāśritāḥ. Therefore we have to take shelter of the Supreme, under whose lotus feet this mahat-tattva is also resting. Mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Puṇya-yaśaḥ. If you glorify Kṛṣṇa, then we become pious. Therefore there are so many prayers to be offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, vandanam [SB 7.5.23]. Vandanam means offering prayer. This is also bhakti-mārga.



*So the total energy of material creation is called mahat*-tattva or pradhāna. Then, when the mahat-tattva is agitated by the three guṇas, then they become divided into twenty-four elements, catur-viṁśatikaṁ gaṇam-originally one, but agitated by the guṇas. Because material existence means the three guṇas. When there is interaction of the three guṇas, then this one mahat-tattva becomes divided into twenty-four catur-viṁśati tattva. This is called Sāṅkhya philosophy, to analyze and to study the twenty-four elements which is controlling the activities of the whole material world. That is called catur-viṁśati tattva. What are they? Pañcabhiḥ . First the five elements, namely earth, water, fire, air, sky. This is pañcabhiḥ . Then next pañcabhiḥ , tan-mātra, means rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśa. Form, rūpa. Rūpa means form; rasa means taste; śabda means sound; *rūpa, rasa, śabda*-sparśa means touch; and rūpa, rasa, śabda, sparśa, and...? Gandha.

*So the sky is known by śabda, sound. This is tan*-mātra. This is... By sound, you can understand there is sky. If you clap, there is sound (claps). You understand there is sky. Sky is understood by the śabda. Then air is understood by sparśa. Just like electric fan is running, but even if I do not see it is running, because the air is touching my body, I can understand the air is there. Sparśa. Rūpa, rasa, śabda. Śabda, sky, and rūpa, fire. From the fire, rūpa begins, form. Rasa. Rasa is in the taste in the water. And gandha is in the earth. So five gross elements and five subtle elements. The gross elements is understood by the subtle elements. Subtle means we cannot see it directly, but we can perceive it. So pañcabhiḥ pañcabhiḥ . And then daśabhiḥ , ten senses, knowledge-acquiring, cakṣuḥ, karṇa, nāsikā: eyes, ear and nose and tongue, hands, in this way. And karmabhiḥ . We work with hands, legs, genital. In this way, there are five working sense organs and five senses to gather knowledge. So five, five, and ten, twenty-four. And the subtle senses, mano buddhir ahaṅkāraś cittam-four.

*So these four, twenty*-four elements is covering the spirit soul. This body is made of these twenty-four elements. But above this, there is the soul. And above that, there is the Supersoul. So the atheists, they do not believe in the soul or Supersoul. But they have to believe in these twenty-four elements. Therefore European philosophers, they like this Sāṅkhya philosophy of another Kapila. Here is Kapiladeva. He is the incarnation of God. But another, there is imitation Kapila. He is atheist Kapila. The Sāṅkhya-kārikā, that is very much liked by the European philosophers, because in that Sāṅkhya-kārikā these twenty-four elements are studied very minutely, without any reference to the soul and the Supersoul. That is the difference between two, Sāṅkhya philosophy, atheist Sāṅkhya philosophy, and theist Sāṅkhya philosophy.

*So etac catur*-viṁśatikaṁ gaṇaṁ prādhānikaṁ viduḥ. Then, by their interaction, so many other things. But the dividing principle is the three guṇas. Three guṇas. Originally these twenty-four element; *then they are acting with the three guṇas, and they are creating so many varieties. As I have explained many times, that three into three equal to nine, and nine into nine equal to eighty-one. So at least eighty*-one varieties of living entities there should be. But actually, there are eighty-four. Eight million four hundred... Curāśī-lakṣa. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva, jīva-jātiṣu. That evolutionary process is there in the Padma-Purāṇa, in the Vedic literature. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ, then pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam, paśavaḥ triṁśal-lakṣāṇi mānuṣāḥ catur-lak... Everything is there, evolution. So this is the creation, material creation. They are working by the material nature. But behind the material nature there is Kṛṣṇa. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ, mohitaṁ nābhijānāti.

*So the living entities, being enamored or illusioned by the activities of this material nature, they are studying the material nature as Sāṅkhya philosopher, as scientist, as mathematician, as chemist, as physist. They are all studying only these twenty*-four elements, not beyond that. Beyond that is the soul, and beyond that is the Supersoul. When one can understand not only to study the material composition of the body but the moving spirit of the body, that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson, beginning, that "Don't be simply misled by studying the material elements of the body, but within the body there is the living force, living entity." Just try to understand that. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. These twenty-four elements is changing the body from kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Our body is being developed. It is not development; it is changing. But because the, from one body to another... In medical science they also admit change of, what is called, blood corpuscle. It is changing every moment. But how it is changing and coming into different body, that we cannot understand. But it is changing. Actually, it is changing from one body to another. That boy, the same boy, when he is grown up, he speaks differently than childish way because the body has changed. The body has changed. That is understood. But because we have no very nice brain, we cannot understand that the body is changing. We say, "It is growing." You can say it is growing, but growing is also changing. The original form is changed. That is called growing.

*So these elementary principles are there, but they are growing into, or changing into different body by the interaction of the guṇas. That is going on. That is called prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Whatever is being done, that is by the interaction of the three modes of material nature. Actually, it is the prakṛti, or pradhāna. Pradhāna change, come into manifestation. That is called prakṛti. And there are twenty-four elements, and they are changing or growing, whatever you say. This is Sāṅkhya philosophy. Unfortunately, people are not given lesson about the Sāṅkhya philosophy in universities, in... If they are given in some philosophical classes*-that atheistic philosophy of Kapila, Sāṅkhya philosophy, but not this Sāṅkhya philosophy, theistic Sāṅkhya philosophy.

*So etac catur*-viṁśatikaṁ gaṇaṁ prādhānikaṁ viduḥ. So these are the description of the twenty-four elements. Then you can go to the next verse.

Nitāi: (leads chanting, etc.)



*mahā*-bhūtāni pañcaiva

bhūr āpo 'gnir marun nabhaḥ

*tan*-mātrāṇi ca tāvanti

gandhādīni matāni me

[SB 3.26.12]



Prabhupāda: Next also. Read. Indriyāṇi daśa śrotram.



Nitāi: (leads chanting, etc.)



indriyāṇi daśa śrotraṁ

*tvag dṛg rasana*-nāsikāḥ

vāk karau caraṇau meḍhraṁ

pāyur daśama ucyate

[SB 3.26.13]



Prabhupāda: Next, mano buddhiḥ.



Nitāi: (leads chanting, etc.)



mano buddhir ahaṅkāraś

cittam ity antar-ātmakam

caturdhā lakṣyate bhedo

*vṛttyā lakṣaṇa*-rūpayā

[SB 3.26.14]



*Prabhupāda: That's all. Catur*-viṁśati tattva is finished.



Nitāi: (reading) "There are five gross elements, namely earth, water, fire, air and ether. There are also five subtle elements: smell, taste, color, touch and sound. The senses for acquiring knowledge and the organs for action number ten, namely the auditory sense, the sense of taste, the tactile sense, the sense of sight, the sense of smell, the active organ for speaking, the active organs for working, those for traveling, generating and evacuating. The internal, subtle senses are experienced as having four aspects, in the shape of the mind, intelligence, ego and contaminated consciousness. Distinctions between them can be made only by different functions, since they represent different characteristics."



*Prabhupāda: So this is the analysis of the whole bodily construction. And beyond this bodily construction there is the soul. And when you study the characteristic of the soul, that is called spiritual knowledge. So long you are engaged with the characteristics of the bodily different elements, that is material study. So generally, people they are interested the medical science. Medical science is also interested with this body. The physical science... The physical science interest will be bhūmir āpaḥ analo vāyuḥ, mahā*-bhūtāni. And psychology, they are interested with the internal senses, mind: thinking, feeling, and willing.



*So all this material scientific knowledge, they are simply interested with this body. But spiritual knowledge begins when you actually take seriously what Bhagavad*-gītā says or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says or what the Vedas says. Vedas says everything, both the material and the spiritual. But for human being we are not only, we should not only be interested with the material science, but we should be interested... That is our main interest. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Material science is going on. But you study or not study, the nature is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. Nature's work will go on, you study or not study. But because we are now entrapped with this material body, vāsāṁsi... We are just now dressed. Just like I am now covered with this dress, cotton dress, similarly, I am now covered by these twenty-four elements. And I am working under this conception, that "I am these twenty-four elements" or "I am this body." So if I continue in that way, then I remain in the animal kingdom. Because the dog is also thinking like that, that "I am this body." He may not be able to analyze the bodily construction. He may not be a medical man or psychologist. That doesn't matter. But he thinks that "I am this body," and he is working like that. So we human being, if I study all the science, physics, chemistry, psychology, and other material science, soil expert... Soil expert means studying the earth, that's all. There are so many. So in spite of all these things, if we remain in the darkness of my spiritual identity, then I am no better than the cats and dogs. This is conclusion.

*So this so*-called advancement of material science means that we are kept in the darkness of spiritual knowledge. We are still in the platform of animal concept of life. Therefore śāstra says,

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go*-khara. Go-khara. Go means cow, and khara means ass. So in spite of all our educational advancement, if we remain in the darkness of bodily concept of life, then we are no better than go-khara. Go, go means cow, and... So we should not remain that. The human life is meant for above this. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is for inquiring about the soul. And the knowledge of the soul begins... That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that don't be simply enwrapped or encumbered with these twenty-four elements, bodily ele..., material, but you should understand that asmin dehe, there is the possessor, or occupier, of the body. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin... What is that verse?



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ

[Bg. 2.13]



Dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means the possessor, the possessor of this body. I am the possessor. You are the possessor.



*That is also another chapter explained very nicely, kṣetra*-kṣetrajña. This body is kṣetra. Every one of us, we have got a particular body, and we are working with this body. That is called kṣetra. Just like the cultivator. He works in the field, tilling the field, and getting the desired result, as much he has got nice fertile field or not fertile field. According to the field, he is getting different result. Similarly we, the living entity or the soul, we have got a field of activities, this body. And by... (pause) (someone shouts) (Aside:) What is that? ...working on this body, we are getting different result. That is called karma. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. So according to different karma, we are getting different body. In this way, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], we are getting one body, and then again this body is annihilated, and we get another body. And there are 8,400,000 types of bodies. In this way our life is going on in this material world.

*But our real business is that "Why we are put into the cycle of birth and death, and according to the body we are suffering different types of miserable condition of life?" Actually, we are trying to enjoy life, sukham, but it is a struggle for existence. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati. We are having great struggle for existence. Therefore we should study philosophically and scientifically, analyze what is this body and what is beyond the body, soul, and what is the soul's function, where is the soul's place, ultimately what is the end goal of the activities of the soul. This is human life. And all this knowledge can be had from the Vedic literature, and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the essence of Vedic literature. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam [SB 1.1.3].

*Vyāsadeva, after writing all the Vedic literature, he was not satisfied. He wrote the four Vedas, then the Purāṇas-Purāṇas means supplementary to the Vedas*-and then Vedānta-sūtra, the last word of the Vedic knowledge, Vedānta-sūtra. But he was not satisfied. So Nārada Muni, his spiritual master, he inquired that "Why you are feeling dissatisfaction after writing so many books, giving knowledge to the human society?" He said, "Sir, yes, I know that I have written... But I am not getting satisfaction. I do not know what is the reason." Then Nārada Muni said, "The dissatisfaction is due to your not describing the activities of the Supreme Lord. Therefore you are not satisfied. You have simply discussed the external elements, but the internal elements, you have not discussed. Therefore you are dissatisfied. Now you do it." So under the instruction of Vyāsadeva..., er, Nārada Muni, his spiritual master, Vyāsadeva, his last mature contribution is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇaṁ yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Therefore the Vaiṣṇava, they regard the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as amalaṁ purāṇam. Amalaṁ purāṇam means... Amalam means without any contamination. These all other purāṇas, they are dealing with karma, jñāna, yoga. Therefore they are samalam, with material contamination. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, simply dealing with bhakti; therefore it is amalam. Bhakti means directly in connection with the Supreme Lord, bhakta and Bhagavān, and the transaction is bhakti. There is Bhagavān, and there is bhakta, just like master and the servant. And the relationship between the master and servant, the transaction, is service.

So service we have to... That is our natural, natural instinct. We are giving service. But being contaminated, that consciousness, citta, being contaminated by these material elements, we are trying to give service in different way. Somebody is interested in giving service to the family, to the community, to the society, to the nation, to the humanity, to the more and more, but all these services, they are contaminated. But when you begin your service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is perfect service. That is perfect life. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to raise the human society to the perfect platform of rendering service.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



741224SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.15

-

Bombay, December 24, 1974



*Prabhupāda: This chanting is chanting of the veda*-mantra. Go on.



*Nitāi: "All these are considered the qualified Brahman. The mixing element, which is known as time, is counted as the twenty*-fifth element."



Prabhupāda:



etāvān eva saṅkhyāto

brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha

sanniveśo mayā prokto

*yaḥ kālaḥ pañca*-viṁśakaḥ

[SB 3.26.15]



So saṅkhyāta, saṅkhyāyati iti sāṅkhya. This is Sāṅkhya philosophy, to know analytical study of the whole cosmic manifestation. That is called Sāṅkhya philosophy. It is physical. And the kāla is via media. And then the soul and the Supersoul. So if we understand thoroughly this analytical study of the whole thing, then we know Sāṅkhya philosophy, saṅkhyāta, Sāṅkhya, in its numerical count.



*So twenty-four elements we have discussed yesterday: the five gross elements, and the five sense objects, and five knowledge gathering senses, and five working senses-twenty-and four internal senses-twenty-four*-and then again, all under the control of time, the fifth, or twenty-fifth. And above these there is the soul and Supersoul. That is spiritual. These are all material, analytical study of the material composition of this cosmic manifestation. This is called Sāṅkhya philosophy.

*So here there is one word, brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya. These twenty*-four or twenty-five material elements is covering the Brahman, and therefore he is called saguṇa. There are two words generally used, saguṇa and nirguṇa. Saguṇa means material, and nirguṇa means spiritual. So in the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna is advised to come to the platform of nirguṇa. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. That is the aim of life. We are also Brahman. We are part and parcel of Brahman, Supreme Brahman; *therefore we are also Brahman. Brahman realization is not very difficult thing, provided we want to realize. And how we want? You take instruction from the Bhagavad*-gītā, and if you accept it, then immediately your Brahman realization is there. Kṛṣṇa says that "These jīvas, they are My part and parcel." So if Kṛṣṇa is Brahman, Parabrahman, then we are Brahman. If we accept this... We have to accept because that is the constitutional position. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

So we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is our constitutional position to live with Kṛṣṇa. Just like the part and parcel of my body, this finger. Finger is the part and parcel of my body. It must live with the body; then it is active. And if you cut the finger and throw on the ground, you may call, "It is finger," but it is useless. Unless it is in contact with the body, acting with the body... Then it is valuable. Take any example, any machine, the screw in the machine, a very insignificant part, but so long it is attached with the whole machine, it has got value. If one screw is lost, if you have to purchase from the market, you will have to pay some value. But the same screw, if it is not attached to the machine, it has no value. Similarly, we are very insignificant spiritual spark. We are, by quality, the same because we are spirit, eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. So we also do not die, we do not take birth. And Kṛṣṇa is also: ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. He is also aja; we are also aja. But He is bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. Bhūtānām, all the living entities, He is the Supreme. Nityo nityānām. Nityo nityānām. He is the chief, leader.

*We require a leader. Any field of activities, we require a leader. Suppose for getting independence, we had to follow one leader, Mahatma Gandhi. Therefore for guidance we require a leader. And the supreme leader is Kṛṣṇa. So if we follow Kṛṣṇa, the supreme leader, then our life is successful. And if we do not follow... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You rascal, you fool, mūḍha, you just follow Me." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the whole story of spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme leader. He is also a living being, He is also person like you and me, but He is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. Therefore He is called Bhagavān. We cannot be called Bhagavān because our power is very limited, not pūrṇa. Therefore we become saguṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not become saguṇa. The Māyāvāda theory, that God, when He incarnates, He becomes saguṇa, that is wrong theory. Here it is said that brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha. Saguṇasya brahmaṇaḥ, these twenty-five elements, they cover him, that means the living entity who has come in this material world. But Kapiladeva or Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, He is not saguṇa; *He is always nirguṇa. Nirguṇa guṇa ca. In... The Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, "Although He is nirguṇa, but He is the controller of the guṇas." Kṛṣṇa is not controlled. Mama māyā guṇamayī. Kṛṣṇa says, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. Mama māyā: "This māyā, this energy, is My energy." So energy is controlled by the energetic. Suppose if you have got some energy, you can control it. Suppose if you have got very good energy to kill anyone or to hurt one or to beat anyone, good strength, but that strength is not beyond you. The strength is under your control. When you like, you can use it; when you do not like, you cannot use it, you do not use it.

*Therefore this māyā, this material world, saguṇa, that is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. Kṛṣṇa is not māyā's, but māyā is Kṛṣṇa's. We have to understand that way, not that Kṛṣṇa becomes enveloped or overpowered by māyā. That is wrong theory. The Māyāvādī theory is like that, that "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am God. Now I am overpowered by māyā, and as soon as I become free from māyā, again I become Kṛṣṇa." But the question is that "If you are Kṛṣṇa, if you are God, then why you became under the control of māyā? What kind of God you are?" Just like in the English Constitution it is said that "The king can do no wrong." So you cannot bring king under any law. Others will come*-even if he is minister, he will come under the law-but the king cannot come under the law. This is the English Constitution. Similarly, God cannot be under māyā. Others, everyone under the...

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Everyone is under the control of māyā. Nobody is free. But there are two māyā, yoga*-māyā and mahā-māyā. Mahā-māyā, this material world, and yoga-m āyā the spiritual world. If you agree to be under the yoga-māyā, then you are happy. Just like there are two kinds of laws: civil laws and criminal laws. You have to remain under one of these laws. But if you live under criminal law, then you go to the jail, and if you live under civil law, then you are free. But in either condition, you cannot say that "I am free of law." That is foolishness. That is foolishness. The atheist class of men, they say that "We do not believe in God." But that is craziness. You may believe God or may not believe, but you are under the stringent laws of God. That you cannot say, that "I am free." No. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You may be very big scientist, very big man, very big prime minister and whatever you may be. You are under the control of these criminal laws: janma, birth; mṛtyu, death; old age, and disease. Then how you are independent? Where is your independence? How we can say that "You are free. You don't require to obey the laws, or dharma"?



*Dharma means the laws of God. This is the simple definition of dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. So when we defy the religious principles... Religious principle means that dharma, not your created dharma. You cannot create law at home. It is given already. What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. All other dharmas, so-called dharmas, they are all cheating. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra: "All cheating type of religious system is kicked out, rejected." Actually, it is not required. It is simply bogus. Real dharma is here, to abide by the laws of God. That is real dharma. Then if you have no conception of God, if you have no knowledge what is the laws of God, then you are adharmika, you are simply transgressing the laws of dharma. And to transgress the laws of dharma, you are sinful, you are punishable. And that is going on. Material life means that. Material life means defying the laws of God, denying the existence of God. And one wants to become himself God. These are the material activities. So we may do so, may defy, but the laws will act. Laws will act.

*So the saguṇa Brahman means the living entities. Saguṇa Brahman does not mean the God, Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, because even if you become servant of God... Just like there are so many nice example, that if an ordinary man beats another man, slap, he immediately becomes criminal. Law is there, "You cannot do that." But the policeman gives you a slap*-it is not criminal. If you kill somebody, then you become criminal. But when a soldier kills hundreds of men, he is not criminal. The process is the same, but because one is acting on behalf of the supreme lawgiver, he is immune. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*"Anyone who is engaged in the service of the Lord, he becomes immediately nirguṇa." Sa guṇān samatītya etān, plural number, etān guṇān, the sattva*-rajas-tamo-guṇa, samatītya. Samyak-rūpeṇa atītya.



*So if a devotee becomes nirguṇa immediately, as soon as he is engaged in devotional service of the Lord, how the Supreme Lord can become saguṇa? Just try to understand. Use your logic. If one becomes a devotee of the nirguṇa, he becomes nirguṇa, so why the nirguṇa God can be saguṇa? This Māyāvādī theory is not very logical, that when God comes He is saguṇa, He accepts this material body. No. That is not possible. Why He should accept body? He is all*-powerful. He cannot be affected by the material laws. A man is suffering from some disease, infected. That does not mean when the physician comes to treat him he is also infected. He knows how to protect himself, disinfectant.

*So saguṇa, this word... The Māyāvādī theory is saguṇa worship and nirguṇa worship. Saguṇa worship means when you worship a deity, in form, that is called saguṇa worship. And when you meditate upon impersonal, that is nirguṇa. That is their theory. But meditation is not possible unless there is form. Without form, meditation means... That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām: "One who is trying to meditate upon the impersonal Brahman," kleśaḥ, "it is very troublesome," because we are not accustomed to concentrate our mind, meditate upon anything which is impersonal. That is not possible. We simply try to do that under labor, under trouble, kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām, whereas devotee, he immediately sees Kṛṣṇa in the temple: "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is Rādhārāṇī.' Arcā-vigraha. Kṛṣṇa has appeared to be visible. We cannot see Kṛṣṇa or God by these material eyes, but as we can be seeing, as we can appreciate, as we can touch, Kṛṣṇa has accepted the form to be touched by us, to be seen by us, to be served by us. This is called arcā-vigraha. It is not idol worship. The Māyāvādī says it is imagination. No, not it is imagination. Arcā-vigraha. Vigraha. Kṛṣṇa is vigraha, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], His form.

So we should always remember, when we speak of saguṇa, saguṇa means saguṇa Brahman. Saguṇa Brahman means we, the living entities, not Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavān. He is not saguṇa. He is always nirguṇa. Etat īśasya īśanam. This is the supremacy of the Supreme Person, that although He comes within this material world, incarnates as incarnation, He is not affected by the material qualities. That is īśanam. Otherwise how He is īśvara? Īśvara means controller. If, when He comes in the material world, if He becomes controlled by the material nature, then how He is controller? He is not controller. Then He becomes controlled. We are controlled. Kṛṣṇa is never controlled. He is always the controller. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara means controller. So He is the supreme controller. He is the controller of these energies also, māyā. So how He can be under māyā? This is mistaken theory. Kṛṣṇa is always supreme, Adhokṣaja. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Adhokṣaja.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*Adhokṣaja means beyond, avan manasa*-gocaraḥ, beyond the reach of our thinking, speculation.



*So Kṛṣṇa is always nirguṇa in any condition, any circumstances. But those who are mūḍhas, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. But because Kṛṣṇa incarnates or comes, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, He comes, we think, because we are foolish person, mūḍha, we think that "Kṛṣṇa is also one of us." That is not the fact. Saguṇa Brahman, nirguṇa Brahman, we should distinguish, that Kṛṣṇa is always nirguṇa Brahman, but we are saguṇa Brahman. We are Brahman, but because we are not Parabrahman or Supreme Brahman, we are subjected, we are prone to be covered by these material qualities. Therefore our business is again to recover ourself from these twenty*-five elements, material elements. And that is only possible, as it is prescribed by Kṛṣṇa, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. What is that? Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. You just engage yourself in bhakti-yoga process, mām avyabhicāreṇa, without any mixture, without any deviation. And how it can be, deviation? Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], without any material desire, without any motive. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], not mixed up with fruitive activities or speculative knowledge-pure, simple.

*You cannot bring Kṛṣṇa under your speculative knowledge, avan manasa-gocaraḥ, because He is beyond the scope of the activities of the mind, Adhokṣaja. Therefore don't try to bring Kṛṣṇa within your speculative knowledge. Speculative knowledge, how can you go? That is Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog cannot... Frog is in the well, three-feet well, and how he can imagine about the Atlantic Ocean? It is not possible. Avan manasa-gocaraḥ. So don't try to speculate upon God. You will never find God. If you want to go by the speculative knowledge, trying to find out what is God just like the theosophist and many other societies-they do that, speculating*-you cannot reach God by speculation. That is not. Because your senses are limited. How you can reach God, the unlimited, by speculative knowledge? That is not possible.

*athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-

*prasāda*-leśānugṛhīta eva hi

*jānāti tattvaṁ bhagavan*-mahimno

na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan

[SB 10.14.29]



*Ciraṁ vicinvan: "For millions and millions of years, if you simply speculate, you cannot reach what is God." It is not possible. But athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva: "One who has received a little mercy, causeless mercy, my Lord, he can understand." Little mercy.



*So how the little mercy can be obtained? That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. "You can get mercy of the Supreme Lord simply by devotional service, bhaktyā." He doesn't say by knowledge, jñānena, or karmeṇa. He never says. Or yogena. No. These are not the process to understand the Absolute Truth. You can make little advance, but it is... Avan manasa-gocaraḥ. What advance you can make with your limited senses? That is not possible. He is beyond the scope of my mental activities. So you cannot reach that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has recommended that "If you want to know Me, then you have to adopt this process, bhakti-yoga." And Kṛṣṇa accepts everything through bhakti. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Not these karmīs, jñānīs. He doesn't accept anything from the hands of karmīs and jñānīs. Karmīs and jñānīs cannot approach Him, what to speak of accepting their offering. That is not possible. They cannot approach Him.

*Therefore bhakti means karma*-jñāna-anāvṛtam. Anyābhilaṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Don't try to approach God with your so-called speculative knowledge and fruitive activities, as people are trying to do. It is not possible. You may, by such activities, you can come to the platform of this sattva-guṇa, sattva-guṇa. But that is also guṇa. You remain saguṇa. You are not nirguṇa. But you require to be nirguṇa. That is bhakti. If you remain saguṇa, you may come to the platform of sattva-guṇa, the brahminical platform-satyaṁ śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam [Bg. 18.42]. That is better platform to understand. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. You can understand, you can get light of the spiritual world, by sattva-guṇa. But you have to surpass the sattva-guṇa. That is called śuddha-sattva, untinted, without any tinge of these rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. In the material world you may be situated on the brahminical qualification, sattva-guṇa, but there is chance of being infected by the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Therefore it is not śuddha-sattva, pure sattva. So you have to come to the platform of pure sattva-guṇa. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. That pure sattva, pure sattva-guṇa, mode of goodness, is called vasudeva, and Vasudeva he gives birth to Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. So when you come to that platform, then you will be able to give birth to Vāsudeva. That means you will meet Vāsudeva. śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. This is the process.

*So saguṇa, saguṇa Brahman, brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya, here it is said. Brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha etāvān eva saṅkhyātaḥ. The living entity is entrapped. This body is the combination of these twenty*-five elements. So that is for the living entity, saguṇa Brahman. Saguṇa Brahman means living entity. But it is not for Kṛṣṇa. And again, sanniveśo mayā proktaḥ. So mayā proktaḥ means Bhagavān is speaking. Bhagavān is not saguṇa. Here Kapiladeva says, mayā proktaḥ: "I have described it." He knows everything. Mayā proktaḥ. We have to take knowledge from Bhagavān, not from any saguṇa Brahman. We have to take knowledge from nirguṇa Brahman. Nirguṇa Brahman is Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, Kapiladeva. Mayā proktaḥ. Yaḥ kālaḥ pañca-viṁśakaḥ. And now He gives another element, kāla, because everything is going on under the influence of kāla. The past, present, and future, the kāla, is eternal. Time is eternal, but we are creating our past and present and future according to our existence. The past, present, future of an ant is not the past, present of an elephant. The past present of our is not the past present of Brahmā. It is relative. This kāla is working relatively. Therefore this is called relative world. So this prime factor of relativity is kāla. That is the twenty-fifth element. And beyond that, there is the soul, there is the Supersoul, and above everything, Puruṣottama, the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa.

So in this way, if we understand, then we become a student of Sāṅkhya philosophy. That is being taught by Kapiladeva.

Thank you very much. (end)



741225SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.16

-

Bombay, December 25, 1974



Nitāi: "The influence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is felt in the time factor, which causes fear of death due to the false ego of the deluded soul who has contacted material nature."



Prabhupāda:



prabhāvaṁ pauruṣaṁ prāhuḥ

kālam eke yato bhayam

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhasya

kartuḥ prakṛtim īyuṣaḥ

[SB 3.26.16]



*So the time factor is the representation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa manifested His viśva-rūpa, Arjuna became very afraid of and inquired, "Who are You?" So at that time Kṛṣṇa said, "I am kāla. I have appeared to destroy." So kāla is representation, time. We have discussed twenty-five elements. The five mahā-bhūta and five sūkṣma-bhūta, ten senses, twenty-four internal senses, these twenty-four elements, and above that, the kāla, time factor. That's all. So kāla is destructive factor.



*We may, however, defy the existence of God. Atheist class of men, demons, they always defy, "Who is God? I am God." But everyone is under the control of time factor. The time factor, in due course, will bring him death. So at that time, how one can deny the existence of God? Mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am death, and My business is to take away everything." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. So time factor will take away everything, what we create with these twenty-four elements. So time is very strong, kāla. However we may defy the existence of God, the time factor is there. We have to accept it. And it is said, kālam eke yato bhayam. And because we are under the control of the time at the present moment in material existence, therefore there is bhayam. Bhayam means ultimately death. Bhayam. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ.

*The description of bhayam is given in the Bhāgavatam. What is this bhayam, fearfulness? Bhayam, īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ: "Those who have forgotten the Supreme Lord and have identified themselves with this material world, for them, the fearfulness is there." But those who are not in the material existence but in the spiritual existence or spiritual life or spiritual activities, for them, there is no bhayam. Abhayaṁ sattva*-saṁśuddhiḥ, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. Bhayam is there, fearfulness is there, so long our existence is not purified. Then there is bhayam. And when existence is purified, then there is no bhayam, no fearfulness. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja was put to so many trials or tribulation by his father, but he was never afraid of. This is the sign of spiritual advancement, because so long I identify myself with this matter, there will be bhayam, and when I am out of this conception of material existence, when I understand that "I am spirit soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then there is no more bhayam, no fearfulness.

*Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. This is the symptom of abhayam. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet are described, abhaya-caraṇāravinda re. Bhajahuṅ re mana śrī-nanda-nandana-abhaya-caraṇāravinda re. If we take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, which is called abhaya-caraṇa, no more bhayam. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ. When, so long we think that "I am something of this material existence," there will be bhayam. And when we realize that "This material existence is superficial. I have nothing to do with it," asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ, "I have no connection with it," then there is no bhaya, no fearfulness.

*So this kāla, past, present, and future, tri*-kāla... Kāla is exhibited in three features: past, present, and future. That is in the material existence. And if one becomes above the three kālas, in the eternal time... Time is eternal, but in the material existence there is past, present, and future. In the spiritual existence there is no past, no future, only present. Only present. Everything are fresh, present, nitya-navayamāna, only feelings, new, new. That is spiritual existence, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, only present-no future, no past. That we cannot realize now, but we can get the knowledge from Vedic literature. The time factor... In the material world there is past, present, and future. Otherwise, time factor is eternal.

So prabhāvaṁ pauruṣaṁ prāhuḥ kālam. So we have to feel the influence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this time factor. We cannot deny it. Because in due course of time, according to the time factor, everything will be finished. Everything will be finished. The present existence will be finished, and then we will have to accept another existence. This is all due to the time. Time is over; then one body is changed into another. So this is the influence of time. Nature is working under the influence of time, and that time factor is enforcing the influence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore it is called prabhāvaṁ pauruṣaṁ prāhuḥ kālam. This is the influence. You have to abide by the influence of time. That means influence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However you deny... Just like crazy fellow. They think that "I have nothing to do with government laws." But the influence of government must be felt when he is arrested and put into the jail. Similarly, by time factor we may do something now without any fear, but time factor will place me in the fearful condition without any fail.

*So ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhasya. We are now vimūḍha. Now when you say that "These mūḍhas," they become angry. But actually, this is the verdict of the śāstra. So long you are within the time factor, within the material nature, you are vimūḍha. We are all vimūḍha. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhasya. And the same thing is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. Nobody is kartā. Here the prakṛti is kartā. Just like when you are under the influence of some contaminated disease, at that time, that disease infection is kartā. You are not kartā. That is our practical experience. When you are in high fever, then your so-called mastership is gone. You are under the mastership of the feverish condition. Similarly, we spirit soul, although we are better in quality than the material element... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtām: "The jīva, living entities, they are better quality than the material elements." But still, on account of his viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ, forgetting God*-we are leading a different type of civilization or different type of life-therefore we have been subjected to the influence of time. This is Kṛṣṇa's, or God's, influence.

*Just like in the prison life we are subjected to the rules and regulation of the prison house on account of disobeying the government laws, similarly, when we are disobedient to the laws of God, at that time, we are put into this material existence under the influence of time, and therefore our conditional life is always fearful. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. Everyone is thinking differently, all living entities. Somebody is thinking, "I am Indian." Somebody is thinking, "I am American," "Hindu," "Muslim," "Christian," "black," "white." So many ways we are thinking. Viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. Our real identity is when we understand that "I am not Hindu, not Muslim, not Christian, nor American, nor Indian, but I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." Then there is no more fear. That is fear... Bhajahuṅ re mana, śrī*-nanda-nandana-abhaya-caraṇāra...

*Therefore the Vaiṣṇava poet advises that "You take to the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." Abhaya-caraṇāravinda re: "Just be engaged in the devotional service of the abhaya-caraṇa, Kṛṣṇa's..." Then your existence will be purified and you will have no more fear. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. You will be... This material life, so long we are conscious of this material existence, we are always fearful, full of anxieties. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. The more we possess asat-vastu-asat-vastu means the material things-there will be more anxiety. Therefore, according to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava principle, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life and His next disciples', the Gosvāmīs', life is to completely get free from any material possession. Vairāgya. Vairāgya-vidyā. This spiritual life... Therefore in Bhāratavarṣa, in India, you will see big, big kings, they give up their kingdom, their opulent life, wife, children, and become a mendicant, a beggar*-not beggar, but renounced everything. This Bhāratavarṣa is under the name of Mahārāja Bhārata. His life is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto, how he gave up his wife, children, kingdom, everything, and he lived alone in the forest, Pulastya, Pulaha-āśrama. But still, māyā is so strong, he became attached to a small deer. And for that reason, he had to wait for his liberation three lives.

*So the spiritual life is very delicate. We have to conduct the spiritual life very cautiously. Little deviation may create great havoc. Great havoc means again material life. And material life means suffering, bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ, always in fearfulness. So long we are in this material life, there must be fearfulness. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. That is described here. Kālam eke yato bhayam. So long you are wrapped up within these twenty*-four elements, under the influence of time factor, then you will have to feel fearfulness, although actually by constitutional position, you have no fear. Every one of us, we know... Not everyone. At least, those who are little advanced in understanding Bhagavad-gītā, the A-B-C-D of spiritual knowledge, at least theoretically, one knows that he is not this body. But still, when the body is in danger, we become fearful because we are existing in this material environment. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. So in order to get out of this fearful situation of life... That is material life. If we take shelter of the lotus feet of abhaya-caraṇāravinda re, Kṛṣṇa, then this bhayam element, fearfulness element, will be completely nil.

*So ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā kartāham... [Bg. 3.27]. Our identification, false identification... The four subtle senses: mana, buddhi, ahaṅkāra, citta, consciousness... So when the consciousness is materially absorbed, then there is fear, and when the consciousness is pure-"consciousness pure" means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa"-then there is no bhaya. The more we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the more we become free from fearfulness. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advises hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. The real position of fearlessness is harim āśrayeta, take shelter of Hari. Hari means who takes away all subjective things of fearfulness. That is Hari. He takes away all our miserable condition of life, Hari. Harim āśrayeta. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt.

*We have accepted the asat, these twenty*-four elements as described before, as identification with me. Asat: they are not permanent: temporary situation, changing one after another. So asad-grahāt, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, always full of anxiety, "What will happen next? What will happen next?" You will see even a small insect, birds, beasts, human being, animal, even elephants, tiger, lions-everyone is fearful. There cannot be any fearlessness in this material existence. Even big nation, American nation, they are also fearful of the Russian. And the Russians are fearful of the Americans. You can see. The whole political field... Our Indians are fearful of Pakistan. Pakistan is fearful... This is material existence. You cannot avoid it unless you take shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.

*Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. He gives shelter and assurance that "Don't be afraid of. When you have taken shelter of Me, then there is no cause of fear."

*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



*This material world is padaṁ padaṁ vipadām, only danger. Every step there is danger. That's a fact. So if we take shelter of that abhaya*-caraṇāravinda, then we have no fear. This is a fact. Abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ. Sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ. Our existence, when it is purified... So this bhakti-mārga, or devotional service, is the process of purifying, purifying process.



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

*hṛdy antaḥ*-stho abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*Satām, those who are devotees, they are simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins: śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Simply these centers are created to give chance to the people in general to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Because as soon as we hear about Kṛṣṇa attentively and try to assimilate it, then the purification of the heart begins.



*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*So śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam is so nice. It has no expenditure, no loss, simply gain. If you kindly hear śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana, if you cannot chant Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, you are so reluctant, or if you cannot because to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that also requires little fortune... Aho bata śva-paco 'to garīyān yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam. Anyone who is chanting on the top of his tongue, where there is name, holy name, he is garīyān śva-paco 'taḥ. Even though he is born in low-grade family, the dog-eaters, it is still garīyān. Aho bata śva-paco 'to garīyān yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam. So in this Kali-yuga, if you simply chant or even if you cannot chant-because that requires little fortune-if we simply hear, that will also help us. So these centers are meant for chanting and hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Simply this process, chanting and hearing, will purify our existence. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. It will increase piety of life. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Anyone who is hearing and one who is chanting, both of them, śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ... This is the beginning.



*So śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. We become purified. This is purificatory process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam means purification. On account of impure life, we are embarrassed with so many designation, impure life. So we have to become designationless, no designation, sarvopādhi... "I am not Hindu. I am not Mussalman. I am not Christian. I am not brāhmaṇa." This is designation. Even sannyāsī... Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore, nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir yatir vā, He described Himself, "No, I am not kṣatriya. I am not brāhmaṇa. I am not sannyāsī. I am not gṛhastha. I am not vaiśya." simply negation. He simply said, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 13.80] "I am the servant of servant of servant of the gopī-bhartuḥ, the maintainer of the gopīs, Kṛṣṇa."

So that is pure life, when we think like that, that "We are no more servant." Nāyaṁ kiṅkaram, that is, what is called, indemnifying this contaminated existence of material life. "Simply I identify as servant of the Supreme Lord." Then you become purified, designationless.

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



Bhakti means when you are designationless, purified in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, when your senses are purified, the senses are no more material. In our contaminated state, our senses are acting in designation. "I am Indian. I have to work for India. The others must go out of India." Or others are thinking, "Now your visa is finished. Now you can go out. You cannot stay here." This is all due to designation. But real life is designationless. The United Nations is working, but there is not... They are not working on the platform of becoming designationless. They want to keep the designations. They are struggling there to become united for the last twenty years. And the... We have seen in New York the United Nations center. Only the flags are increasing, because unless one becomes designationless, no designation, there cannot be any unity.



Unity is possible on the spiritual platform, not on the material platform. Material platform means "I am envious of you; *you are envious of me." Mātsaratā. Mātsaratā means mātsaratā para utkarṣaḥ asahanam:(?) When I cannot tolerate other increasing in opulence, I become envious. This is material life. The spiritual life is different. Spiritual life means if somebody has advanced in spiritual life, and somebody, one, he is still in the neophyte stage, he will eulogize, "Oh, how fortunate he is. He has advanced. He is serving Kṛṣṇa in such a nice way. When I can get that position." There is no enviousness. That is glorifying. That is the distinction between material life and spiritual life. Spiritual (material) life means enviousness: "How to kill you, how to stop you." But spiritual life means to see you advancing, one becomes happy, "Oh, how fortunate he is." This is spiritual life. Therefore spiritual life is meant for a person who is completely not envious. That is spiritual life. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra. Dharmaḥ projjhita*-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. This Bhāgavata-dharma is meant for the person, paramo nirmatsara, paramahaṁsa. He is not envious of anyone. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām [SB 3.25.21].

*We have discussed this word in Kapiladeva's Sāṅkhya philosophy: sādhu. Sādhu is suhṛdaḥ sarva*-dehinām. Sarva-dehinām means all living entities in all forms of life. That is called sarva-dehinām. "I am for Indians and not for the Englishmen or Americans," or "I am for the human being. I am not for the cows and goats. They should be sent to the slaughterhouse"-these things are happening on account of no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, limited, crippled ideas. And it is going on in the name of philanthropism, nationalism, communism, this "ism" and that "ism." These "isms" will not help us unless you come to the platform of Kṛṣṇa-ism, that "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Practically. If we accept... The United Nations, is working so hard, but they cannot make that the whole world belongs to all living being. Then immediately it will be... All questions will be solved. I was discussing this evening: there is so much land still uncultivated. And if the overpopulated people are allowed to go there and cultivate and grow their food grains, ten times of the living entities on this face of the globe can be fed without any difficulty. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14].

*So everything is there, but we don't accept. Under designation, we are fighting, that's all. Under designation, under ignorance, we are fighting. We are forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Therefore our miserable condition, bhaya, fearfulness. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. Viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ means just opposite understanding. Everything belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. That's a fact. But I am thinking, "It is my land." Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti. Nothing belongs to us. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. If we accept Kṛṣṇa, the center, and we work under His direction, as it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, our life is successful, our whole program is peaceful. All tranquility, everything is there.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



741226SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.17

-

Bombay, December 26, 1974



Nitāi: "O My dear mother, O daughter of Svāyambhuva Manu, the time factor, as I have explained, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, from whom the creation begins as a result of the agitation of the neutral, unmanifested nature."



Prabhupāda:



*prakṛter guṇa*-sāmyasya

nirviśeṣasya mānavi

ceṣṭā yataḥ sa bhagavān

kāla ity upalakṣitaḥ

[SB 3.26.17]



*Now Bhagavān Kapiladeva is describing what is the kāla, time factor. Time factor is another manifestation or feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kāla... The beginning of creation, that is the beginning of kāla. So that beginning is started by the Supreme Personality of Godhead: sa aikṣata. These are the Vedic information. "The Lord glanced over the mahat*-tattva." Sa asṛjata. "And in this way creation began."



*Creation is not without the touch of the Supreme Puruṣa, Person. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam [Bg. 10.12]. There is puruṣa. The prakṛti, woman, strī, if she is not in contact with a puruṣa, then there is no creation. There is... Sāmyasya. Prakṛter guṇa*-sāmyasya. Without the touch of puruṣa, prakṛti remains guṇa-sāmya, no manifestation of the three guṇas. Prakṛter guṇa-sāmyasya nirviśeṣasya. At the time of nirviśeṣa... Nirviśeṣa means without variety, without varieties. Nirviśeṣasya mānavi, addressing His mother, Devahūti. Devahūti is the daughter of Svāyambhuva Manu, and Svāyambhuva Manu brought the daughter before... What is Kapiladeva's father's name?

Devotees: Kardama Muni.



*Prabhupāda: Kardama Muni. Kardama Muni was a great mystic yogi, but he desired to marry, and immediately Svāyambhuva Manu... The Svāyambhuva Manu is also paramparā, is the son of sun*-god, Svāyambhuva Manu. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha [Bg. 4.1]. So this Manu is one of our predecessor guru. Vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So the spiritual science was spoken to Vivasvān, the sun-god. Therefore the kṣatriyas... There are two families: one from the sun-god, one from the moon-god. So Sūrya-vaṁśa, Candra-vaṁśa. So those who are kṣatriyas coming from the Sūrya-vaṁśa... Lord Rāmacandra also appeared in the Sūrya-vaṁśa. So prakṛter guṇa-sāmyasya.



*So Manu... Manu belonged to the Sūrya*-vaṁśa, and the daughter of Manu is Devahūti. Therefore the son is addressing the mother, mānavi. Mānavi. The manuṣya, the word, has come from manu. Mānuṣya. Mānuṣya means "coming from Manu." The human race, they are coming from Manu. So therefore the human society is controlled by the Manu-saṁhitā. There is a book, Manu-saṁhitā, the law-giving. Manu has given law. That law... At least the Hindus or the followers of the Vedic principle, their law is Manu..., Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti is also translated in Russian language. Professor Kotovsky told me. In my statement there is. He has admitted that "We have translated the Manu-smṛti." So the mānava, the human race, has come from Manu. Therefore it is called mānuṣya, mānava. And the Manu's direct daughter, Devahūti, is addressed here by his (her) son, Kapiladeva, mānavi.

*Prakṛter guṇa*-sāmyasya nirviśeṣasya. Guṇa-sāmya. When the three modes of material nature is not agitated, it is in the neutral stage, guṇa-sāmya. The guṇa-sāmya... The Buddha philosophy is... The highest goal is guṇa-sāmya, where there is no manifestation by the agitation of the guṇas. That is their ultimate goal, guṇa-sāmya, nirvāṇa. On account of agitation of the three guṇas, these manifestations are there, and that is called viśeṣa. Viśeṣa means varieties. And nirviśeṣa or nirvāṇa-practically the same thing: "Finish these varieties and again become nirviśeṣa, no variety, neutral stage." That is the highest perfection of Buddha philosophy, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi. There are two kinds of atheistic philosophers. One is nirviśeṣa, and the other is śūnyavādi. So my students, therefore, they address, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. So whole world is nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi. Some of them are advocates of zero. There are many big, big philosophers writing on zero. They believe in zero, but they write volumes of books. Why you are wasting time writing volumes of books on zero? After all, if you are going to be zero, remain zero. So zero means disgust. Even Mahatma Gandhi, we have also heard in the paper, in the morning, the day when he was killed, the morning, he was disgusted with so many different opposing elements, letters, and news. So he said that "I don't want to live anymore. It is too much disgusting to me." And the same evening he was killed.

*So this zero, void philosophy, when one becomes very much disgusted, they want to make it zero, finish everything. So this nirviśeṣa or zero is undeveloped stage. Just like a girl, unmarried girl, is undeveloped stage. But when she comes in contact with a puruṣa, then she develops with so many children. So that beginning of motherly life is called time. The time is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Puruṣa. Now, prakṛti herself cannot produce anything. This material manifestation which we see, so beautiful cosmic manifestation, that is not alone by the prakṛti, as the materialistic scientists think, that "There was a chunk, and there became manifested." These are foolish theories. Real is that in contact... Sa aikṣata. That is the Vedic information. When the Supreme Personality of Godhead glanced over the prakṛti, mahat*-tattva, then the three guṇas agitated, and she begins to give birth in so many varieties of the twenty-four elements. We have already discussed the twenty-four elements. The ingredients are there. That is prakṛti. And pradhāna means when they are not manifest, and prakṛti means when they are manifest. And prakṛti, pradhāna, and above them, there is the Puruṣa. That Puruṣa is Bhagavān, sa bhagavān. Ceṣṭā yataḥ sa bhagavān. Wherefrom the prakṛti begins to manifest, that is with the touch of Bhagavān. How touch? Sa aikṣata: by simply glancing over, the prakṛti becomes pregnant.

*Now we cannot understand how one can make his wife pregnant simply by glancing. That is possible by Bhagavān. Therefore He is called almighty. We have got experience. If we want to make pregnant my wife, then we have to use certain sense. That particular sense can make pregnancy. But the Supreme Personality of Godhead, being all*-powerful, He can do anything from anywhere from any sense. That is almighty. We speak of almighty-"God is almighty"-but we do not understand what is the almighty. This is almighty. The almighty Lord, simply by glancing over prakṛti, He makes the prakṛti pregnant, and the prakṛti produces so many varieties of life. Ceṣṭā. Ceṣṭā yataḥ sa bhagavān.

*So the prakṛti cannot give birth to the varieties. That is wrong theory. That is wrong theory. The real variety begins when the prakṛti is in touch with the Puruṣa. That is our experience also. How we can say that prakṛti can give birth or woman can give birth to a child or many children without being touch with man? Where is our experience? There is no such thing. Therefore we should not take prakṛti as everything. We must find out the Puruṣa. Therefore the puruṣa who gives birth to these material varieties, that is Lord Śiva, and the prakṛti which gives birth to these varieties, that is Durgā. Therefore the original prakṛti and puruṣa is represented by śiva*-liṅga, and devī-patha(?). Those who are worshiper of śiva-liṅga, they know the devī-patha(?) and the śiva-liṅga, they are worshiped. The original father, Kṛṣṇa, says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "I am the seed-giving father." Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ [Bg. 14.4]. There are varieties of forms of life. How they are being begotten? Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. That pitā, father, is Lord Śiva.

*So when Kṛṣṇa comes in touch with prakṛti for giving birth of these varieties of forms of life, that is Śiva. That is Śiva. Śiva is not different from Kṛṣṇa, but still, Śiva is not Kṛṣṇa. This is called inconceivable one and different. Inconceivable one and different. The example is given: just like milk and yogurt, dahi. Dahi is not different from milk. It is milk*-it is milk, everyone knows-but it is not milk at the same time. You cannot get the benefit of milk by drinking dahi, or yogurt. Milk is used for different purpose, and dahi is different purpose. When you take too much milk, you get dysentery, and if you go to the physician, he gives you some medicine to take with yogurt, dahi. So dahi or yogurt, is not different from milk, but it is not milk. Similarly, all these demigods, especially Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā... They are the original chief demigods from Viṣṇu.

*So these demigods or even we... We are also the same principle, the living entities. Brahmā is also in the category of living entities, and Lord Śiva is between the living entities and the Supreme Lord, in between. Therefore you cannot keep Lord Śiva as living entity category, neither Viṣṇu category. Via media. Kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi vikāra*-viśeṣa-yogāt [Bs. 5.45]. The Supreme Personality of Godhead does not come directly in touch with this prakṛti, but the form by which He touches this prakṛti, that is Lord Śiva. Therefore Lord Śiva is not different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead; *at the same time, he is not the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the conclusion. So that ceṣṭā... Ceṣṭā yataḥ sa bhagavān. Therefore Lord Śiva's another name is Kāla*-bhairava. Kāla-bhairava. And he is the master of the annihilation. When this whole material creation will be required to be destroyed, it will be done by Lord Śiva. It is created by Lord Brahmā, it is maintained by Lord Viṣṇu, and when it will be destroyed, it will be done by Lord Śiva. Therefore there are three original demigods. So Kāla-bhairava, ceṣṭā yataḥ sa bhagavān kāla ity upalakṣitaḥ. So kāla, time factor, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is above these twenty-four ingredients of material elements. It is in between the spiritual element and the material element, via media, that kāla. This is the description of kāla.

*So we should not think... The real purport of this verse should be understood that if we are misled by thinking that prakṛti is working alone and is giving birth of varieties of things, saviśeṣa, that is wrong theory. It is examplified like*-in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta-just like in goats you will find on the neck, on the... It is called neck, or throat? There are some nipples. Have you seen it? So if somebody thinks that "There is nipple; *there will be milk also," no. There is no milk. That is different thing. Similarly, if some person foolishly think that material nature, prakṛti, is the cause of varieties of manifestation, that is wrong. That is wrong. It is done by the Puruṣa, the Supreme Person, through the agency of prakṛti. Just like a man begets children through the agency of woman, similarly, the varieties of this material world is due to the Supreme Person, Puruṣa. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam, original, eternal Puruṣa. That is accepted by Arjuna in the Bhagavad*-gītā: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Bhavān: "You are puruṣaṁ śāśvatam."

*So God is always puruṣa. Puruṣa means the enjoyer, the male part. Male and female*-two parts required, negative and positive. So the male part is Bhagavān, and the female part is the prakṛti, and combination of puruṣa and prakṛti is the varieties of creation. This is Sāṅkhya philosophy. So you should not be misled that prakṛti itself has given so varieties of manifestation, cosmic manifestation. That is not possible. You have to accept the puruṣa theory by your practical experience, that without puruṣa, no prakṛti can give birth anything. Similarly, these varieties of manifestation in the world, in the material world, it is due to the combination of prakṛti and puruṣa.

*So the atheistic philosopher, they think that this combination of prakṛti and puruṣa is without any aim, without any idea, just like a man and woman meets and they may have sex. There was no idea, but they have sex. They give this example. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Sixteenth Chapter. There is no aim, and that puruṣa becomes subdued by the prakṛti, and the manifestation comes. But this Kapiladeva, you will find, and we Vaiṣṇava philosophers, we do not admit this, that "without any aim." There is aim. Why Kṛṣṇa says that this material world, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]? Bhūtvā bhūtvā. There is aim. The manifestation of prakṛti, cosmic manifestation, is there to give the living entities another chance for liberation. One chance is given. Just like we have got. Śrī Prakṛti is now manifested, and we are living entities. We are here, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ [Bg. 14.4], in many varieties. So what is the aim? The aim is God realization. By evolutionary process, gradually, we come to the human form of life. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva jīva-jātiṣu, jīva-jāti. Jīva, under different species of life, they are evolving.

*jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi

*sthāvarā lakṣa*-viṁśati

*kṛmayo rudra*-saṅkhyakāḥ

*pakṣiṇāṁ daśa*-lakṣaṇam



*In this way, the evolution is coming*-from aquatics to plants life, the insect, reptiles, then birds, then beast, then human life.



*So this human life, civilized human life, followers of the Vedic principle... That is the civilized life, Aryans. Ārya. Therefore the followers of Vedic principles, they are called ārya, advanced. Because those who are follower... Just like Manu*-saṁhitā. It is Aryan literature, Vedic literature. So Aryan means advanced. Advanced means civilized. So if we civilized people, we give up this Aryan literature or Vedic literature and take to Jasoushi(?) literature to waste our time, sex literature, then we are committing suicide. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli' gelā. That Kṛṣṇa is the original father, we have forgotten. Anādi. Anādi means before the creation. Ādi means the creation. So this is a chance. This creation is there to give us chance to come to our original position, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So there is aim. It is not without aim. There is aim. And when there is creation, when there is civilized human being, and still they are not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa comes personally to teach them.

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata...

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*So this civilized nation should take advantage of this Vedic literature. The Kardama Muni is teaching Sāṅkhya philosophy, Kṛṣṇa is teaching Bhagavad*-gītā, and if we do not take advantage of these thing, then again we are in the oblivion. Again this cosmic manifestation will be annihilated, and we will remain in slumbering state for many millions and millions of years. Again there will be creation: bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is the mode of creation. So we should take advantage of this Vedic literature. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One, everyone, should approach the bona fide spiritual master and take lessons from the Vedic literature. Then this life will be successful. We are rotting in this material world. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Getting one short type of body, live there for some time, again it is annihilated, again another body. And we do not know what kind of body. That will depend on our karma. So... But you have to accept. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13].



*So this is going on under the influence of kāla. So people should be enlightened that "Don't remain asleep." Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. "Now you are civilized human being. You can read and write. You can understand." So jāgrata: "Now get up, be awakened. Study this Vedic literature, especially the essence of Vedic literature, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam." Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam [SB 1.1.3]. Nigama means Vedic literature, Vedic knowledge. And it is its ripened fruit, nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and be successful in your life.

Thank you very much. (end)



741227SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.18

-

Bombay, December 27, 1974



Nitāi: "By exhibiting His potencies, the Supreme Personality of Godhead adjusts all these different elements, keeping Himself within as the Supersoul and without as time."



Prabhupāda:



*antaḥ puruṣa*-rūpeṇa

*kāla*-rūpeṇa yo bahiḥ

samanvety eṣa sattvānāṁ

*bhagavān ātma*-māyayā

[SB 3.26.18]



Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is exhibiting Himself in so many ways. That is summarized in the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*. Just like the heat and light. Just like in the material world, we have got experience. The whole system of the material world is going on under the heat and light. The sunshine is diffusing unlimited quantity of heat and light, and on this heat and light the whole material existence is there. That is scientific estimate. Because the sunlight is there, the heat and light is there, the whole planetary system is rotating, there is vegetation and varieties of fruits, flowers, varieties of manifestation. This is heat and light.



Similarly, the example is given in the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*,

*eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis

tathedam akhilaṁ jagat



*Just like agni, fire, eka*-deśa-sthita, is there is one place, localized. Agni does not move, but heat moves. That you have got experience. You have big fire in one place. The fire does not move, but you can feel the existence of fire by heat and light. Similarly, Bhagavān does not move. He has got immense power. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He moves by His energy. That is the difference between the Māyāvāda philosopher and Vaiṣṇava philosopher. Vaiṣṇava philosopher says the Bhagavān is staying in one place. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. He is staying. In the śāstra we understand that Kṛṣṇa... Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ gacchati: "Kṛṣṇa does not leave even by a step Vṛndāvana." He always remains there. So in the Brahma-saṁhitā also, it is stated that goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. He is always living in Goloka Vṛndāvana. He does not require to move. That is His inconceivable potency. Suppose I am sitting here. Suppose I have got to do something in my apartment. So unless I go there, that business cannot be performed. This is my position. But Kṛṣṇa, although He does not leave even by a step Goloka Vṛndāvana... He is always enjoying in company with Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī: ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). His only business is ānanda, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1].



But He has got so many other businesses, so many. He has to... Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am situated in everyone's heart." And mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: [Bg. 15.15] "And through Me the living entity is getting intelligence, remembrance." So just see how much busy He is. Everyone's heart, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ... Īśvaraḥ sarva...

*Devotees: Sarva*-bhūtānām.



*Prabhupāda: ...sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. Īśvara, the Supersoul, it is said here, antaḥ puruṣa-rūpeṇa, the Supersoul. And the Bhagavad-gītā also confirms, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. He is situated in everyone's heart. In the Upaniṣads also, it is said that two birds are sitting in one tree. So one bird is eating the fruit, and the other bird is simply observing as witness. Anumantā upadraṣṭā*-in the Bhagavad-gītā. So just imagine. There is no limit of the living entities. Sa anantyāya kalpate. Anantyāya means there is no numerical count. Innumerable. Nityo nityānām. Nityānām, bahuvacana, plural number... So there is no limit of these living entities. And still, Kṛṣṇa has to live within the heart of every living entity. Just see. And every living entity has different business. And He has to sanction and witness.



*There is a common saying that "Not a blade of grass can move without the sanction of God." Actually, that is the fact. Everyone has got different propensities, and he cannot do it without the sanction of God. This is God's business. Just see. Ananta*-koṭi, innumerable jīva, and He has to give sanction and see his business and witness, also give the result. He is witness, and He has to give the result also. Because he is doing independently, he must enjoy or suffer the activities. That is going on. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa. He has to give different types of body. Suppose I want to eat everything-never mind how much nonsense and nuisance it is. There are so many men, they eat everything. So he has to be offered the body of a pig, no discrimination, even stool accepted. So who is giving this body? Daiva-netreṇa, by superior observation. Kṛṣṇa is seeing that "This living entity wants a body so that he can eat anything up to stool." So He has to judge; *He has to give. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1].

*So we are getting different types of body according to the... Kṛṣṇa does not give directly, but He is the Supreme Lord. He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is the Vedic information. He has nothing to do. Simply His order is sufficient. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*So Kṛṣṇa orders only māyā that "Give this living entity a body like a demigod, or a dog, or a pig, or a tree." So there are 8,400,000 varieties of body. He has to manage all these. How He is managing? Is He managing personally? No. He is managing through His potency, ātma*-māyayā. Here it is said, ātma-māyayā. Samanvety eṣa sattvānāṁ bhagavān ātma-māyayā. Māyā means energy, energy, tricks. This is called māyā. So everything is being done by His potency. So the Māyāvādī philosopher, they says, "When Bhagavān is everywhere-His action is visible in every step, every atom, everywhere-then the original..., where is the original form of Bhagavān? Everything is Bhagavān." That is called nirviśeṣavādi, nirākāravādi, "Bhagavān has no ākāra. He is finished. Because He is everywhere, therefore there cannot be any particular form of God." This is nirviśeṣavādi. That is material conception. Just like if we take something and make into pieces and throw it everywhere, the original form of that particular thing is finished. This is material conception.



*But spiritual conception is different. Spiritual conception is stated in the Vedas, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. Kṛṣṇa is pūrṇa, and He has expanded Himself in so many ways, so many potencies, so many forms, but still, He is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot think that "Because Kṛṣṇa is expanded in so many forms and so many ways, therefore He is finished. There is no more Kṛṣṇa. This form of Kṛṣṇa is māyā." No. That is Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself... Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam: you cannot count even. We are also forms of Kṛṣṇa, vibhinnāṁśa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's form. That pantheism, they take it that "Kṛṣṇa's... Everything is Kṛṣṇa's form. Then where is Kṛṣṇa?" No. Kṛṣṇa is still Kṛṣṇa. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. He's still ādyam, puruṣam ādyam. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. He still remains ādi. So how He has expanded? That is stated here, bhagavān ātma-māyayā: by His internal potency. Bhagavān ātma-māyayā. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport].

The example is given: just that the sun is localized in one place, but he is managing the whole universal affair by his heat and light. That is potency. That does not mean... For time immemorial, sun is supplying unlimited quantity of heat and light all over the universe day and night. There is no stoppage. It is not that sun's heat and light has been stopped because it is night. It is night for us, but his heat and light is being distributed. It is distributed. But still, has the sun has diminished by a small quantity? If it is possible even for the material thing... Sun is nothing but an insignificant material thing. There are millions of suns, millions and trillions of suns. That is admitted even by modern science. So this sun is only an insignificant portion of the sun category. This universe is the smallest. There are many big, big universes, and each and every universe, there is sun, there is moon, there is other things. And all these universes combined together is one fourth energy of Kṛṣṇa. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat.

When Arjuna wanted to know about Kṛṣṇa's potencies, vibhūti... He said... He says in so many ways. Then, at last, He summarized,

athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*"You just try to understand My potency in this way, that the whole material creation, cosmic manifestation, innumerable universes..." What are these universes? Yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. In each and every universe there is a prime lord or the creator, Lord Brahmā. So there are innumerable universes, and there are innumerable Lord Brahmā, innumerable Lord Śivas, everything innumerable. So yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. And these innumerable universes are coming out from the breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu. That Mahā-Viṣṇu is partial expansion of Kṛṣṇa.



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣaḥ...

[Bs. 5.48]



*Kalā*-viśeṣa means kalā, and aṁśa... Aṁśa is directly, and kalā is aṁśa of the aṁśa.



*There are so many things to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. There are many siddhas. We are not siddhas. We are trying to be siddhas. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Not all. Just like here the bhakti*-yoga is going on, how to become siddha. But who is interested? In Bombay there are millions of people, but who is interested? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: "There are millions and millions of human beings, but out of them, one may be interested to become siddha." And if one is siddha... Yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. And although siddhas, those who are actually siddhas, they are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa, kaścit, out of... Some. Out of them, somebody may be knowing Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa science is not so easy. It is not so easy. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. Any person who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru, not others. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya.

kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



When Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Rāmānanda Rāya was talking about spiritual realization, so Rāmānanda Rāya was from a śūdra family and he was householder and governor of Madras, politician also. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asking question from him and... This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's līlā: mūkaṁ karoti vācālam, how He is making a śūdra, gṛhastha, politician, His guru, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's guru. So nobody can become Caitanya Mahāprabhu's guru, but He was playing the part. He was questioning, and Rāmānanda Rāya was replying. So just imagine how his position was exalted. So he was little hesitating, and when very intricate questions were put before him... He was quite able to answer. He was answering. So he was feeling little hesitation, "Sir, You are coming out of a very high brāhmaṇa family and the most learned personality, and now You have taken sannyāsa, the supermost position in the human society."



*Sannyāsa is very respectable position. Still it is honored in India. Anyone where a sannyāsī goes, at least in the villages, they offer respectful obeisances and gives all kinds of comforts, still now. According to śāstra, it is said if a sannyāsī is not offered respect or duly honored, the punishment is the man should fast at least one day. This is Vedic system. But there are many sannyāsīs taking advantage of this, so we are not concerned. Neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a false sannyāsī. He was real sannyāsī. And he was also real gṛhastha, Rāmānanda Rāya. So he was feeling little hesitation. To encourage him, Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, "No, no. Why you are feeling hesitation? Why you are feeling inferior? You are guru." "Now, how I am guru?" "Yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]." Because to become a knower of Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary position. Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3]. One who has known Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary man. Yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. He is above all the siddhas even. "So why you are hesitating? You know kṛṣṇa-tattva; therefore I am asking from you." So this is the position.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that training the people who come to us to make him far, far above than the siddhas, far, far above than the siddhas. And it is very easily one can become. One can hold this position of guru, who is... Guru means who is above the siddhas. Kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One cannot become guru unless he knows kṛṣṇa-tattva. Not ordinary man. The yogis, the karmīs, the jñānīs, they cannot become guru. That is not sanctioned, because even one is jñānī, he has to learn Kṛṣṇa after many, many births; not in one life, but many, many life. If he persists to understand what is the Absolute Truth by his jñāna method, by his speculative method, then still he will have to change many, many births. Then one day he may be fortunate. If he comes in contact with a devotee, then it may be possible for him to understand Kṛṣṇa.

*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Who is prapadyate? Who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Unless one understands Kṛṣṇa perfectly, why one should surrender? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Big, big scholars they, "It is too much," they say. "It is too much. Kṛṣṇa is demanding, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is too much." This is not too much; this is the real position. If he is actually advanced in his knowledge... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. That is not attainable in one life. If he persists in knowledge, understanding of the Absolute Truth, then, after many, many births, when he is actually in knowledge, then he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That kind of mahātmā... You will find so many mahātmās simply by changing the dress. Not that kind of mahātmā. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. It is very difficult to find out such mahātmās, but there are. If one is fortunate, he can meet such mahātmā, and his life becomes successful. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made the thing very easy, very, very easy. Therefore His name is Patita*-pāvana. Patita-pāvana. Patita means fallen, and pāvana means purify. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Therefore we follow Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We first of all sing or chant,

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



*We beg mercy from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His associates. That is the way of worship in this age. You cannot approach Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be sudurlabhaḥ. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. If you try to approach Kṛṣṇa... Actually we are seeing that. The Bhagavad-gītā is being read by so many scholars, so many theosophists and theist, but they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. You will find it practically. So many big, big scholar, so many men, they say, "I read Bhagavad-gītā thrice in a day." And ask him about Kṛṣṇa-he does not know anything. You will find it practically. He will be very proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā. The politicians, they take photograph, taking a Bhagavad-gītā in his hand, but ask him about Kṛṣṇa*-he does not know anything. Ṣaṭ-khaṇḍa rāmāyaṇa paṛe 'sītā kāhār bābā': "He has read all the Rāmāyaṇa, and he is asking, 'Well, can you say me whose father is Sītā?' " He does not know whether Sītā is mother or father.



*So this is the position. Because he does not know who is guru and how to learn Bhagavad*-gītā, therefore he is frustrated. Kṛṣṇa says,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



Even Kṛṣṇa, He is friend of Arjuna; *still, Arjuna says, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Kṛṣṇa says..., Arjuna says that "Kṛṣṇa, no more friendly talking. I agree to become Your disciple." So when he agreed to become disciple of Kṛṣṇa, then He explained Bhagavad*-gītā. Actually, one should not explain Bhagavad-gītā or any Vedic śāstra unless one has agreed to become a disciple. But devotees are so kind that they preach even amongst the nondisciples just to take them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, according to law, one should not speak beyond the jurisdiction of his disciple because they will not understand. They will not follow the rules and regulations. How they will understand? Kṛṣṇa says, yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpam: "One who is completely free from all kinds of sinful activities." That is the primary qualification to understand Kṛṣṇa or understand Bhagavad-gītā.



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



Unless one comes to this position, there is no possibility of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So how outsiders will accept? If the outsider is requested, "Sir, you do not smoke," very small thing, then "Swamiji is not very good. He puts so many restriction." And if somebody says, "No, no, you can drink, you can eat anything. It does not...," then he is very liberal. He is very liberal. So we are first of all putting these restriction: no illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. Intoxication up to drinking tea and smoking cigarette, you have to give up. Anyone who comes to become my disciple, this is my first proposal, that "If you agree, then you come." It is not that you can do anything nonsense you like, and you become my disciple. No. Because one cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless he is restricted from the sinful activities. And these are the basic principle of sinful activities: illicit sex, and meat-eating, gambling, and intoxication. These are the four pillars of sinful life. And the whole world is addicted to these four things.

*So we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness with great difficulty. When I went to America, I went by ship. So it stopped at the, what is that, Commonwealth Pier in Boston. So I was thinking that if "I say that 'No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, and no intoxication, and no gambling,' so these people will immediately say, 'Please go home.' " (laughter) Yes. That is the position. It is... These are their daily affairs. These are their daily affairs in Western countries. And if you want to make them stop these things, they will think that "This man is lunatic." But by Kṛṣṇa's grace these boys, these girls, they agreed. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. I did not expect that they will agree. In India they do not agree, and they are accustomed from childhood, from boyhood. So how they will... But Kṛṣṇa's grace is so nice, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy is so great, that they agreed, and they are pushing on this movement on this principle.

*So why? This is due to the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Patita*-pāvana. He can deliver the Jagāi-Mādhāi. And what is the process? The process is:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*If people are simply induced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... Just see. Even a child, he is taking part. It is natural. There is no distinction between black and white, no question of language, nothing. You see practically. There is white child, black child. They do not know how to speak, tut they are dancing and chanting. So this movement is so important. Somehow or other if you can engage them in chanting and dancing, the whole world will be united. What the United Nations has failed, this movement can do*-if it is not checked by the rascals. But the rascals are ready to check this movement. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, God, Kṛṣṇa, is always ready to help us. How? Here it is said, antaḥ puruṣa-rūpeṇa kāla-rūpeṇa yo bahiḥ. He is inside and outside. Antaḥ, antaryāmī. Caitya-guru. He is acting as caitya-guru.



*Kṛṣṇa is very much anxious because we are suffering and we are sons of Kṛṣṇa. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. He is unhappy to see that you are suffering. That is natural. If the son is suffering from ailment, the father also suffers: "How the son will be cured?" The son may not know it, but the father is suffering without having that ailment. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the..., He is the father of all living entities. Ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā. Kṛṣṇa says. It is not my word, but Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: [Bg. 14.4] "All different forms of life." Sambhavanti, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. So Kṛṣṇa is the father of everyone, and He is very much anxious for us, to get us back. Therefore He is ordering, "You rascal, why you have created so many isms? Just surrender to Me. I will give you protection. Just surrender." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. For this purpose He comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Dharma-glāni, discrepancies in the matter of religious principle, glāni... What is that glāni? The glāni is forgetfulness of God: "No God. I am God. You are God." This is glāni. But this is going on as dharma. This is Kali-yuga. What is not dharma, that is going on as dharma. Dharma means to understand God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. What is dharma? Dharma means the laws and instruction given by God. But at the present moment, what is God? "There is no God." Then where is dharma? Where is dharma?

*So there is no dharma in the Kali*-yuga. They are simply cheating. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra, atra śrīmad bhāgavate: "In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam all cheating type of religious system is kicked out." What is that cheating type? "There is no God." Then where is dharma? "Dharma means you become honest." But they do not know that nobody can become honest without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone who is devoid of God consciousness, he cannot be gentleman. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ.

yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā

sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ

harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad...

[SB 5.18.12]



*This is the test. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*So this is the test. Na māṁ prapadyante. Kṛṣṇa says, "Who does not surrender to Me? They are these classes of men." What is that? Duṣkṛtinaḥ:"Always engaged in sinful activities." Kṛti means meritorious. But they are engaged in manufacturing atom bomb, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Atom bomb means killing. But discover something by which man will not die. That they are dying-so you have discovered some instrument to die quickly. So that is duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit, he has got merit, but misuse the merit. The death is there. He would have lived for, say, sixty years, and you drop atom bomb*-in ten years or twenty years finished. You cannot increase the duration of life. Therefore the so-called scientific advancement, what is that? Duṣkṛtinaḥ,no benefit for the human society.



*The real problem is, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Our real miserable condition of life is birth, death, old age, and disease. Where is scientific help to mitigate these miseries? There is no stoppage of birth; there is no stoppage of death; *there is no stoppage of disease. You can manufacture very good medicine for disease, but you stop disease. That is not possible. So our so*-called meritorious activities in scientific research and education, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as duṣkṛtinaḥ, mischievous activities. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. They are not actually beneficial, but they are mischievous. And why, mischievous, they are engaged, they are wasting their so much time in mischievous? Because mūḍhāḥ: they do not know what is the purpose of life. They are mūḍhas. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. They do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa because they are narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. Why lowest of the mankind? Because this human life was given to him for understanding Kṛṣṇa, and he is wasting in other way. Therefore narādhamaḥ. "But they are so educated, university degree..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: "Their knowledge has no meaning. It is taken away by māyā." Because he does not understand Kṛṣṇa, what is the use of such knowledge? Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Veda means knowledge. So if you actually advances knowledge, you must know what is Kṛṣṇa. But they do not know Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they are defying Kṛṣṇa.

So this is going on. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very important. Those who are intelligent, they will take to it and make his life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



741228SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.19

-

Bombay, December 28, 1974



Prabhupāda: So the modern theory that life is made possible by chemical evolution is not correct. Or the Darwin's Theory, evolution of matter. No. The... They are missing the soul. That is their mistake. They are simply observing the material cover. That is the basic mistake of modern civilization. They have no information that within the body there is the spirit soul. That is the basic principle of material development. Matter is coming out of spirit, not that spirit is coming out of matter. They think by combination of matter there is a stage when living symptoms are visible. That is not the fact. The fact is that spirit soul is there, and therefore matter is developing.



*Matter is external, and spirit soul is internal. So this internal spirit soul is coming from the Supreme Soul. Therefore it is said, daivāt kṣubhita*-dharmiṇyāṁ svasyāṁ yonau paraḥ pumān [SB 3.26.19]. Paraḥ pumān, the Supreme Person, the supreme living entity... Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The supreme living entity is Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. He is the origin of living entities. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. The supreme living entity is the source of both matter and spirit, not that spirit has come out of matter at a certain condition. That is not the fact. So this material nature is impregnated just like a female is impregnated by the male. Otherwise the female cannot give birth to any child. Similarly, this material nature cannot produce anything without being agitated and impregnated by the Supreme Soul. This is the fact. So you can read the purport.

*Nitāi: "This impregnation of material nature is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Fourteenth Chapter, third verse. Material nature's primal factor is the mahat-tattva, or breeding source of all varieties. This part of material nature, which is called pradhāna as well as Brahman, is impregnated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and delivers varieties of living entities. Material nature in this connection is called Brahman because it is a perverted reflection of the spiritual nature."



*Prabhupāda: These varieties... According to the Western Darwin's theory, they do not give any nice description of the varieties. But the varieties of living entities are there before creation. They become manifest in next creation. Just like in this creation one is dying as demigod, I mean to say, at the last dissolution, and one is dying as dog, or one is dying as a fish. So when the next creation will come out, they also will come out in that way, again as fish, because his activities in the form of fish was not completed. So one has to complete the term of one particular type of body. That is the law of nature. So they remain in dormant stage in the body of Mahā*-Viṣṇu at the time of dissolution. Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikām, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmi... Then, at the time of creation, they come out again in the same body as it was in the last creation. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anādi karama-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale. Of course, the evolution takes place, but at the time of creation the particular type of body which I inherited in my last birth or millennium I get again, and again begin evolution. This is the process, going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. The dissolution takes place.



*So varieties are already there, not that in this creation it begins. Otherwise how Brahmā is created first? Brahmā is the most intelligent creature, so intelligent that he is given the power of creating this universe. So not that in the beginning there was no intelligence. The first*-class intelligence is there in the beginning of the creation. Read.

*Nitāi: "It is described in the Viṣṇu*-Purāṇa that the living entities belong to spiritual nature."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. In the Viṣṇu*-Purāṇa it is said that viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā. Parā means spiritual. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. And kṣetrajña means the living entity. That is also parā, spiritual. Avidyā-karma-saṁjña anya tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. Avidyā-karma-saṁjña anya: "Another śakti is there, means this material energy. It is full of avidyā." Avidyā-karma-saṁjña. And here karma is very prominent. Everyone is trying work, trying to work very hard to get some profit out of it just to become happy. So in the modern civilization especially, they are being trained up to work very hard and, to get strength, eat meat, and to digest meat drink wine, and then become infuriated and work very hard. This is the modern type of civilization. But Vedic civilization is different. Vedic civilization is not meant for working so hard. The human being should be very peaceful and sober and intelligent and cultivate spiritual knowledge, become brāhmaṇa, brahminical culture. Satyaṁ śaucaṁ śamo damas titikṣā. This is Vedic culture.



*So Vedic culture or the representative of Vedic culture, Mahārāja King Ṛṣabhadeva, He advised His sons, "My dear sons, this human life, human form of life, is not meant for working hard like the animals. This is not." Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Kaṣṭān kāmān. Kāmān means we require some necessities of life, but civilization should not be made in such a way that one has to live at the cost of sacrificing everything. This is not human civilization. Kaṣṭān kāmān. Everyone wants something. That is required. So long the body is there, we must have to eat, we must have to sleep, we require sense gratification and protection or security. This is required. But the Vedic civilization was very simplified, simplified. A class of ideal men, the brāhmaṇa, they are ideal. They are simply assimilating the Vedic knowledge and guiding others-kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-how to live peacefully. The kṣatriya, they are meant for giving protection to the people, security. And the vaiśya is meant for producing food. And śūdra, because they cannot do anything independently, they must serve these three masters: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. So this is very scientific.

So if there is no ideal class of men, who will guide? If everyone is engaged as śūdra to work hard for technology, then who will give the guidance? A brainless society.

*mukha*-bāhūru-pādebhyaḥ

puruṣasyāśramaiḥ saha

catvāro jajñire varṇā

guṇair viprādayaḥ pṛthak



*This is the division. The brāhmaṇa is to be considered the mouth of the Virāḍ*-rūpa Bhagavān, the universal form of the Lord; kṣatriya, the bāhu, the arms; and vaiśya, the belly; and śūdra, the leg. So they are meant for cooperation, not that simply falsely becoming proud that "I am brāhmaṇa. You are śūdra." No. The brāhmaṇa is equally important than the śūdra, though both of them are required. But comparatively, because brāhmaṇa is considered to be the brain, he's very important. So the brain must be there. Otherwise, simply possessing hands and legs, what is the meaning if there is no brain?



*So at the present moment there is practically no brain, simply hands and legs and belly. Not even hands, simply belly and legs. Rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas, rajas means belly, filling up. And tamas, ignorance, ordered. The leg is ordered, "Go there"; *it goes. They cannot do anything independently. So rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ, at the present moment the rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ, is very prominent. But therefore society is imperfect. There must be a section of people, sattva-guṇa, and..., sattva-guṇa especially, to guide. Otherwise they will be simply engaged-rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ means kāma and lobha. Lusty desires and greediness, that's all.

*tadā rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ

*kāma*-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

[SB 1.2.19]



*If you go on simply with rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ... Therefore the competition is going on always-greediness. There is no end of ambition. "More money, more money, more money." Nobody is satisfied.



*Recently one of our life members-he is a big industrialist*-he has jumped from the, what is called, that Daksinasvara(?) Bridge, down to the Ganges. No, Wellington Bridge, I think. So committed suicide. In Western countries also, because there is no end of greediness: "More, more, more, more, more." Ask him that "What will be satisfaction for you?" Oh, there is no such limit. This is rajas and tamas. And some people, they are śūdras. So some political party, by agitation, by propaganda, makes them convinced to accept some way, and they do it. Another party will do another... They have no their own discretion. They elect some president, and again they want to dethrone the president. Because they are śūdras, they have no intelligence. They do not know how to elect the president, who should be the governor, who should be the executive head. They commit mistake. They again cry.

*So rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ, it is going on, very strong. Therefore human life is not meant for this purpose. It is very difficult to convince the present society. Still, we are trying our bit, that "This is not the right type of civilization, godless civilization, no sattva-guṇa, only rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, mostly tamo-guṇa. This thing will not improve your situation, neither solve your problem. The problem... Human life is meant for solving the problem." Therefore creation is made. The living entities within this material world, daivāt kṣubhita-dharmiṇyām, this material energy, they are given chance, again creation. Daivāt. Daivāt kṣubhita-dharmiṇyāṁ svasyāṁ yonau. This material energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. That I was trying to explain last night. Just like the heat and light. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. The light and heat. Similarly, spiritual energy and material energy. Take the spiritual energy as heat and material energy as the light. There is some idea of fire. Heat, if somewhere is very hot, you can make an idea, "There must be some fire." That is... The material world is like that. We have got some heat of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Things are going on so nicely. So we can at least imagine that there is some management. Otherwise how the sun is rising exactly in time every day, according to the calculation, almanac? The moon is rising, the ocean is flowing, and the breeze is blowing. Everything is doing its own duty. Unless there is some superior brain, arrangement... This is common sense, because in the material world we have no direct connection with the Supreme Lord. But in the spiritual world there is direct connection. That is exactly like heat.

*So either material world or spiritual world, they are two different energies of the Supreme Lord: parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. They are śakti. Parasya. Just like here it is said, paraḥ pumān. Parasya. Parasya means beyond this material world. That is paraḥ. Śaṅkarācārya also, he admits, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: "Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, He is paraḥ. He is beyond this material world." So paraḥ pumān. So Kṛṣṇa is paraḥ pumān. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Paramaḥ or paraḥ, the same thing. Paramaḥ, the Supreme or beyond this material world. Here there are īśvaras. They are... Up to Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Indra, Candra, there are many īśvaras. But Kṛṣṇa does not belong to this material world. Kṛṣṇa is paraḥ pumān. He is also puruṣa, He is also controller, but not the controller like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, Indra, Candra, or president this, president that. We are... There are so many controller. And even in this planet there are so many controller: the president of India, president of America, and so on, so on. Similarly, there are many presidents in innumerable planets. The president of the sun planet, that is also mentioned in the śāstra. His name is there: Vivasvān. The president of the sun planet, his name is Vivasvān. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. The Candra is the president of the moon planet. Sūrya, Sūrya is Vivasvān. So everywhere there is a president or predominating deity. But above all of them is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is called paraḥ pumān, param, not within this material world. So He is controlling everything, and His two energies, material energy and spiritual energy, is acting like the heat and light of the fire.

*eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis

tathedam akhilaṁ jagat



So in the material world we can perceive only if we are intelligent. But in the spiritual world there is directly. Now here it is said that ādhatta vīryaṁ sāsūta, vīryam. So the living entities, they are also coming from the paraḥ pumān. He is impregnating this material energy with these living entities, and according to their desires, different desires, they are getting different types of bodies. And he is thinking that he is enjoying. Just like the pig. He is also thinking he is enjoying stool. He is also thinking. Similarly, you will find also, human society. They are eating different types of foodstuff. "One man's poison... One man's food is another man's poison." Suppose one man is eating something. Another man will say, "Eh! What he is eating?" But he is also enjoying. He is also.



*So this is going on. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. And they are worshiping also different types of deities. Śrī*-aiśvarya-prajepsavaḥ. Generally, in the material world they are after śrī, śrī, meaning beauty; aiśvarya, opulence, money; *śriyaḥ, aiśvarya, and prajā, children, or good generation, dynasty, family. They want to create family. In the Western world there is "lord" family. In this, our Eastern, there are many big, big families. So śrī*-aiśvarya-prajepsavaḥ. The materialistic, they are after this. They want to see very beautiful woman in the family, the man's wife, his son's wife, his grandson's wife, very beautifully dressed, ornamented. Śrī, that is called śrī, beauty. And they must have money to enjoy. Śriyaḥ aiśvarya, and prajā. So they are after the worshiping of demigods. But those who are intelligent, those who know that this śrī-aiśvarya-prajā, they are temporary... But these men, they do not see it although they know it is temporary. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said paśyann api na paśyati. Teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. He knows that "These things will be destroyed. This will not exist," but still, he is after them, śrī-aiśvarya-prajepsavaḥ.

Paśyann api na...

*dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣv

*ātma*-sainyeṣv asatsv api

teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*Dehāpatya. Apatya means children, family, and deha means this body. Deha apatya. Kalatra, kalatra means wife. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣu. He is struggling for existence and thinking that "My wife, my children, my relative, my friend, my countrymen*-they are my soldiers. They will give me protection whenever I am in danger." Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. But he knows also that they will not stay. Asatsu api. But still, they are depending on them. So teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. This is our position.



So this position is going on, beginning from one date of creation, millennium, and goes up to the end, kalpānta. The asuric determination is kalpānta. Up to the end of the creation they have no sense that "Again I am going to in the oblivion. Again I am to remain for millions of years in darkness. Then again there will be creation. And again I shall get body." And in one millennium we are changing so many bodies. This is our problem. But there is no education; *there is no knowledge. But we find this education, this knowledge, from Vedic literature. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes Himself, He teaches Himself Bhagavad*-gītā personally, and He asks, mūḍha, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], but still, we are so dull, we cannot take His words, take His instruction, and bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], and going on, one after another, birth and death. This is going on.

*So these vīrya, these living entities, seed*-giving father is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are in quality as good as Kṛṣṇa, as good as Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśa. The living entities, they are, Kṛṣṇa claims, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "And they are My part and parcel." So why we should be other than Kṛṣṇa? We are exactly of the same quality. If Kṛṣṇa is spirit, then we are spirit. He is complete spirit; we are partial spirit. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kṛṣṇa is living force; we are also living force. Kṛṣṇa has got creative power; we have got also creative power. Exactly all the qualities. Kṛṣṇa has got loving propensity; we have got loving propensity. Wherefrom this love has come? Because Kṛṣṇa loves Rādhārāṇī, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore we have learned how to love. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the Vedānta*-sūtra: "Everything is born out of the Supreme Person, everything, what we see." We are sample Kṛṣṇa, sample Kṛṣṇa. All the propensities, that we have inherited from our supreme father. Everything is there. Kṛṣṇa has got the same propensities. So why Kṛṣṇa should be imperson? That is not complete knowledge.

*Complete knowledge is one who understands that "If I have got so many propensities, so the origin of me, the supreme father, why He should be without any propensities? What is this logic?" "Like father, like son." It is... The son has got so many propensities. Wherefrom it has come? It must be in Kṛṣṇa. This is intelligence. Everything is there is Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter. That means Kṛṣṇa has stealing propensity. But the difference is that Kṛṣṇa's stealing butter is worshiped, and my stealing is beaten with shoes. (laughter) That is the difference. So we should not imitate Kṛṣṇa, but we should understand that janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] everything... Here it is said, bījam ādhatta. So just like father impregnates the child or the son within the womb of the mother, and he comes, "Like father, like son," generally, similarly, we are. We have got the same propensities, vīryam, but it is being misused in the material connection. Therefore we are not getting pleasure. Otherwise, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12) All these propensities, varieties of qualities, will give us ānanda.

*These varieties are for deriving pleasure, pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti. The Rādhārāṇī is hlādinī-śakti. Rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. This is the display of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. So this pleasure potency is there. So how? Then pleasure potency, we can enjoy in cooperation with Kṛṣṇa, in conjunction with Kṛṣṇa. The same thing: just like this body, the finger. The finger is part of the body. The finger can enjoy pleasure so long attached with the body. If the finger is cut off from the body, there is no more pleasure. Similarly, we are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Because we are now detached from Kṛṣṇa, therefore our position is manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Detached from Kṛṣṇa, we are in this prakṛti, material nature, and our business is struggle for existence for the same pleasure, which is never obtainable in this material world. Therefore the intelligence is that we should again go back to home, go back to Kṛṣṇa, and dance with Him in His rāsa dance. That will be our pleasure.

Thank you very much. (end)



741229SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.20

-

Bombay, December 29, 1974



*Nitāi: "Thus, after manifesting variegatedness, the effulgent mahat*-tattva, which contains all the universes within itself, which is the root of all cosmic manifestations and which is not destroyed at the time of annihilation, swallows up the darkness that covered the effulgence at the time of dissolution."



Prabhupāda:



*viśvam ātma*-gataṁ vyañjan

*kūṭa*-stho jagad-aṅkuraḥ

*sva*-tejasāpibat tīvram

*ātma*-prasvāpanaṁ tamaḥ

[SB 3.26.20]



*Viśvam ātma*-gatam. This body, everyone's body, is also a small universe. Whatever the arrangement is there in this body, the similar arrangement is there in the whole universe. The principle is the same. The same arrangement is within the seed of a banyan tree. We have got practical experience that a small seed of banyan tree, very small, but the potency within the seed is there, a big tree.



*So these universes are also coming like a small seed. Therefore innumerable universes: yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. From the breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu, the small particles are coming, and they are developing into big manifestation of universal form. Similarly, our desire is also very small. We are very small, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Still, we have got desires and everything. And according to the desire, as soon as there is creation, everything fructifies, everything comes out. It is called suptotthita-nyāya. Suptotthita-nyāya means just like one man is sleeping, and in the morning, when he is awakened... In the sleeping stage he forgot himself. He is wandering in dream, some other part of the world. He forgot this body and the bodily circumstances, everything. But as soon as he is awakened, he remembers everything. That darkness of ignorance, covering, is immediately gone, and he remembers that "I will have to do this. I will have to do that. I will have to go to my office or my business place." But when sleeping, he forgot everything. Similarly, in the dormant stage after annihilation, we living entities, we forget everything. Just like at night we are forgetting everything of this bodily activities, and again, during daytime, we are forgetting everything of the night dream. This is going on. Similarly, at the time of annihilation, prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikām. Kalpa-kṣaye. When this millennium will be ended, at the end of Brahmā's life, at that time the living entities will stay in the body of the Mahā-Viṣṇu. (aside:) What is that sound? And again, when we are let loose from the deha, and there is creation, our old remembrances all come in, and we begin our life. This is the process of going... Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Sva-tejasā apibat tīvram ātma-prasvāpanaṁ tamaḥ.

*So the darkness is there, and the light is also there. Simply we have to be awakened. Therefore Vedas, they instruct us that "Don't sleep! Get up!" Uttiṣṭhata prāpya varān nibodhata jāgrata. Similarly, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also sings, kota nidrā jāo māyā*-piśācīra kole. Jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo, gauracānda bole. Gauracānda means Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says, "O the living entities, you get up! Be awakened!" We may say, "Now we are awakened." This is not awakened. This is also slumber in darkness of ignorance. Real awakening is when we come to our spiritual consciousness. That is real awakened. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. This is not, this awakening stage, this is not real awakening. Real awakening comes when we understand, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. At the present moment we are not awakened, still sleeping, because we are thinking, every one of us, "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." In this way we are conscious of the designation. So we have to get out of the designation, and when we shall understand our real identity, not this bodily identity but spiritual soul identity, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Otherwise we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. So long we are identifying with this body, we are still sleeping. Kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. Just like a child sleeps on the lap of the mother, similarly, we are sleeping on the lap of mother material nature. This is our position.

*So we have got the power to be awakened. Sva-tejasā. That power we have got, but we have to awaken it by good association, by sādhu, sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Sādhu-saṅga is good association. Then we are awakened. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. If we have little faith that we require awakening of spiritual consciousness, we should not sleep under the spell of this material consciousness... A little faith will help us. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Mahato bhayāt. There is great dangerous position. That we do not know because we are sleeping. If a man is sleeping and somebody is coming to kill him, he does not know that "Somebody is coming to kill me. Immediately I will be dead." There are so many cases of murder while a man is sleeping. Similarly, in this sleeping state of ignorance, that "I am this body," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," there is greatest danger. So somebody required. A man is sleeping, and another man is coming to kill him. A third person is required to awaken: "Mr. such and such, get up, get up, get up! The man is coming to kill you." So the ear is open, although the man is sleeping, all other parts of the body, limbs of the body are inactive. So the ear is open. So therefore the Vedic mantras are called śruti. We have to hear the mantra, Vedic mantra. Just like if a man is bitten by snake, he is caused to hear the snake charmer's mantra-still there are-so that he can become awakened. And it is said in the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita śloka, mantrauṣadhi-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ. Mantra is powerful still*-by mantra, a snake-bitten person can be brought into life. There are still some snake charmers in the villages. In our Māyāpura there is a Muhammadan, he can cure the snake-bitten case by mantra still.

*So this mantra is required, the Vedic mantra, to hear mantra. This chanting of these verses is also hearing the Vedic mantra. So we should take chance, and the most important mantra is mahā*-mantra. Mahā-mantra. We are sleeping, but this mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, if we hear somehow or other... Therefore the greatest beneficial activity or welfare activity is to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra so that others can hear. But unfortunately, when we chant loudly, others they think, "It is nuisance." That is the difficulty. But actually it is the process of awakening: "Get up, get up, get up, get up." Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. If we hear this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then the mistaken ideas... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam: [Cc. Antya 20.12] cleansing the mirror of the heart.

Everything, whatever we are thinking, doing, imagining, making plan, etcetera, the heart is so nice, it keeps a stock, photographic stock. Sometimes we have got experience: all of a sudden a thought comes which has no connection with my present activities. Still, all of a sudden comes. So in the heart there are so many stocks of different lives because I am passing through different lives. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. So stock is there. It comes like bubble. Just like we will find in some reservoir of water, big, all of a sudden some bubble comes. Similarly, the heart is the stock of so many dirty things. Dirty things means this experience of this material world. That is called dirty things. Because we are covered. We are spirit soul; *we are now covered by these material dirty things. So it can be removed. Sva*-tejasā. There is such potency of the spirit soul that it can come out. Simply the attempt should be made, assisted by or guided by a superior person. That is called spiritual master. He can guide, and we can come out of this slumber, sleeping in ignorance.

*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us a very easy process, this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*There is no other method for our spiritual progress. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And there is no loss on our part. And if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, there is no loss. You can chant, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ: "There is no hard and fast rule for chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Everyone can attempt. Even the children, they are also chanting. There is no loss, but gain is very much. That is the greatest gain, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Ceto-dar... That requires. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Just like in the mirror, if it is covered with dust, you cannot see your face, but if you cleanse the mirror very nicely, then you can see your actual face. Similarly, when our this heart is cleansed... And within the heart, Kṛṣṇa is there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. If we try to cleanse our heart, then-Kṛṣṇa is already there*-He will help immediately.



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

*hṛdy antaḥ*-stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*Abhadrāṇi, the same dirty thing. Kṛṣṇa is always ready to help us provided if we take His help. Kṛṣṇa is so nice. As Paramātmā, He is living within the heart, and He is always ready to give us good advice and guide us. Caitya*-guru, the guru within the heart. And this external spiritual master, he is Kṛṣṇa's representative. When He sees that "This living entity is little serious. He wants to know Me. He wants to come to Me," so He helps from within, and He sends His representative from without.



*So from within and from without, Kṛṣṇa is ready to help us provided we become little anxious. Śraddhā. To create this śraddhā, little faith, we are trying to open these branches all over the world, and people who are taking advantage of this..., little inclination will help. But there must be inclination. We are not dull stone that we have no power. We have got little power. That little independence is there because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent, and we, being minute part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got also little independence. You don't forget this. And misuse of this independence is the cause of our material existence, misuse. So still, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He comes. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma*-saṁsthāpanārthāya [Bg. 4.8]. If we simply become little inclined, svalpam apy asya dharmasya, little inclined, then Kṛṣṇa will help us. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17]. If somebody is little inclined and out of sentiment or understanding he gives up everything, sva-dharmam, that is the primary requisition.

*Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. This sarva-dharmān means everyone has got a particular type of occupational duty. That is called sva-dharma. Generally, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they have got particular type of duties. And as Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up your brāhmaṇa-dharma, or kṣatriya-dharma, or vaiśya-dharma or śūdra-dharma, or Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, this dharma, that dharma." Sarva-dharma means everything. Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. If we are little inclined, that is called..., that is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ [SB 1.5.17]. He gives up all other duties: "I am no more any followers of any dharma. I am followers of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet." If this determination is there, then everything is possible.

*There is a verse, ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim: [Nārada*-pañcarātra] "If you take the shelter of the lotus feet of Hari, Kṛṣṇa," ārādhitaḥ, "and worship it," ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, "then there is no more necessity of austerities, penances, and so many other things. Simply this is required." Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim... Nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim: "And after undergoing your religious principles and ritualistic ceremonies and austerities, penances, fully executing the occupational duty, everything done," but nārādhito hariḥ, "but you could not understand how to worship Hari," so tapasā tataḥ kim, "then what is the use of your this tapasya?" There is no use. It is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. This is confirmed everywhere. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*You are executing your occupational duty very nicely. Suppose if you are, from material point of view, you are big businessman or big medical practitioner, big engineer, or anything. Everyone has got some occupational duty. So if you are doing your duties very nicely, dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ, very nicely you are doing, puṁsām, but you have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Your, you are functioning your duties, occupational duties, very nicely, but you do not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ [SB 1.2.8]. Viṣvaksena. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Viṣvaksena. So if we do not become interested in hearing about Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, or there are so many names of Kṛṣṇa-Govinda, Nārāyaṇa. He has got many forms. So Kṛṣṇa means including all these forms. So viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ, notpādayed ratiṁ yadi: "If you do not get interested to hear about the Supreme Lord, then," śrama eva hi kevalam, "your discharging very faithfully your occupational duty is simply labor of love. It has no meaning."



*So this is the point. Therefore Bhāgavata's instruction is that you must be careful of being successful by discharging your duties. That should be your point of view. You do not remain blind. You see that you are successful. So how it is successful? That is also given indication in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām [SB 1.2.8]. This is also there. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ. There was a big meeting of very, very learned brāhmaṇas at Naimiṣāraṇya. Perhaps you know Naimiṣāraṇya, there is a place. In Uttar Pradesh near Lucknow, there is a place, Naimiṣāraṇya. So long, long ago, say, four thousand, five thousand years ago, there was a big meeting of learned brāhmaṇas. In that conference this resolution was passed. What is that resolution? Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ: "Now we are assembled here, guided by the learned brāhmaṇas." There were kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, and śūdras also. So the resolution was passed. The president was Sūta Gosvāmī.

*So ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ. They addressed the learned brāhmaṇas, dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ. Dvija means twice*-born, twice-born: one birth by the father and mother, and the other birth by the spiritual master and spiritual knowledge. Mother, Gāyatrī or Veda, Veda-mātā, and the father, the spiritual master. This is another birth. So the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśyas, they are allowed, especially the brāhmaṇas. Therefore the brāhmaṇas are called dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ: "Amongst the twice-born, the best, the best of the twice-born." So it was addressed to the best of the twice-born. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. They have got different occupational duties as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, as vaiśya and śūdra, so how they can become successful by discharging their duties? Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. You never mind whether you are a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra. It doesn't matter. See that by your activities, by your occupational duty, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied. Then your occupational duty is successful. Otherwise śrama eva hi kevalam, simply wasting time and energy.

*So this uttiṣṭhata jāgrata is... Sva*-tejasāpibat tīvram. Sva-tejasā, we have got that potency to come to the light. Everyone, we have got that potency. Simply we must be willing. That independence is there. I may not like it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You do it." Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful; He can force you to accept this principle; *but that He will not do. He will not touch your independence. He will ask you to do it, but He will not force you to do it. If you do not take it, that is your choice. But this is the assurance. To become illuminated, to become awakened to spiritual consciousness*-we can do it at any moment if we want to accept it. Sva-tejasā, we have got that potency. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for giving enlightenment to the people that "If you like, you can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then your life is successful." Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada-pañcarātra]. That is the most welfare activities.

*So tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ [SB 1.5.17]. If by sentiment also, you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Because in the beginning nobody is very serious. Sometimes by sentiment they take it. Even at... This is also good, by sentiment. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujam. And one who takes by sentiment, he may fall down. It doesn't matter. Because in that sentiment... Just like here we find the children*-they are dancing, they are chanting, they are playing the cymbal. All these activities are taken into account. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. We collect all these effects of pious activities. This devotional service is so nice that whatever you do, little bit, that is pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Even if you do not do anything, simply if you hear, that is also puṇya. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. And if I speak just like a parrot, if I do not know anything about, it doesn't matter; *still, it is pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ. Someway or other... The children, what do they know about Kṛṣṇa consciousness? But they are becoming pious, purified.

*Therefore, in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11].

*itthaṁ satāṁ brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nara*-dārakeṇa

*sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



*Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing when the cowherd boys were playing with Kṛṣṇa, that description. He says that "These cowherd boys, they are not ordinary human being." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ: "They have accumulated many, many births' pious activities, as the result of which, they are now playing with Kṛṣṇa." And who is Kṛṣṇa? Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā: "Big, big ṛṣis and yogis, those who are interested in brahma-sukha or to merge in the Brahman effulgence*-the source of Brahman effulgence is here playing: Kṛṣṇa." Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa [Bs. 5.40].



*So this little, little accumulation of puṇya, very easy. No expenditure, no experience, no education, nothing. Simply come here and join this chanting and dancing. Even a child. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Little, little, little*-one day he will be able to play with Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (end)



741230SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.21

-

Bombay, December 30, 1974



Prabhupāda:



*yat tat sattva*-guṇaṁ svacchaṁ

śāntaṁ bhagavataḥ padam

yad āhur vāsudevākhyaṁ

cittaṁ tan mahad-ātmakam

[SB 3.26.21]



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*This state, vāsudevākhyam or cittam, always filled up with Vāsudeva consciousness... Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa... Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. So our present position of consciousness is polluted by the three modes of material nature: sattva*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. Here sattva-guṇa, the mode of goodness, the brahminical qualification... Satyaṁ śamo damaḥ śaucam ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Still it has to be purified. That is called svaccham. Svaccham means completely crystallike clear. Just like we have got experience: If you go into the mid-ocean, you can see within the water very deep, twenty feet, thirty feet, very clear. Those who have gone through a sea, they have experienced. Very clear. So the citta, consciousness, must be clear. Vāsudevākhyam: when one can clearly see Vāsudeva or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is possible. Simply we have to purify the citta.



*That is the process given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how to cleanse the citta, consciousness. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Mārjanam means cleansing, polishing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And as soon as the citta, or consciousness, you perfectly cleanse, then bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, this bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... The material existence is compared with blazing forest fire. This is the right comparison because in the forest nobody goes to set fire, but it takes place. You cannot stop it. And when the forest fire is there, you cannot stop the fire also by your so many counteracting method, namely getting the fire brigade or buckets of water. That is also not possible. Therefore Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has compared this material life as blazing forest fire, saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **.

*This material world is blazing fire. Blazing fire means the forest fire. The forest fire... The example is very typical, because nobody goes to set fire in the forest, neither it is possible to extinguish the fire in the forest by your so many counteractive methods. This is very appropriate example. Similarly, in the material existence nobody wants any trouble, but automatically the trouble comes. Everyone has got experience: everyone is trying for happiness*-nobody wants for distress-but distress comes here. You cannot stop it. Therefore those who are advanced in knowledge, they take it for granted that "I do not want distress. So the distress cannot be checked. It comes upon me. Then why shall I try for happiness? It will also come." This is very right conclusion. If without my endeavor distress comes upon me, so there are two things, distress and happiness, two counterparts. So if distress can come upon me without any endeavor, so the happiness also will come without any endeavor because this is another counterpart. So why shall I waste my time for this material distress and happiness?

That is the injunction of the śāstra:

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

*kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasā

[SB 1.5.18]



*Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Just like distress comes upon me without endeavor, similarly, according to my destiny... Destiny means to some extent we suffer, and to some extent we enjoy. Actually, there is no enjoyment, but we take it for enjoyment. The struggle for existence, the struggle for mitigating suffering, we take it as happiness. Actually there is no happiness in this material world. So anyway, even there is happiness and distress, two relative terms, the one can come without any endeavor*-the other also will come without any endeavor. That is a fact. Everyone is trying to become happy according to his own mental concoction or endeavor, but there cannot be any unalloyed happiness. That is the nature of this material world. The conclusion should be, therefore, "We are destined to suffer a certain extent of so-called happiness and certain extent of so-called distress." The distress is also so-called, and the happiness is also so-called. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, āgamāpāyinaḥ anityāḥ tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "The happiness and distress which comes and goes, they are anityaḥ. They will not stay."



*The example is given, śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. The winter season and the summer season, they come and go. To somebody, winter season is very nice, and to somebody, summer season is very nice. In the Western countries they like summer season very much, and in this tropical country they like winter season very much. So actually, summer and winter, they are neither distress nor happiness. It is due to the touch of the skin. Mātrā-sparśās tu. Mātrā-sparśāḥ means it is due to the touching of the skin we feel like that, distress and happiness. Actually this material world, as certified by Kṛṣṇa, it is place of distress. There is no happiness. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It has been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, "This place is place for miserable condition." Duḥkha ālayam. Ālayam, so long you are not annihilated, this place is duḥkhālayam. It is miserable condition. We have several times explained.

*So we have to purify the consciousness. Then we shall be without any touch of this so*-called distress and happiness. That is prescribed here: yat tat sattva-guṇaṁ svaccham. Here there is little happiness in the sattva-guṇa. But still, that sattva-guṇa can be contaminated by rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa-directly distress. And sattva-guṇa, there is little taste of happiness, but that is not complete happiness. The complete happiness is that sattva-guṇa without any touch of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. That is transcendental. So here it is described that yat tat sattva-guṇam... sattva-guṇam does... Not this sattva-guṇam: rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa, but svaccham. Svaccham means cleansed, completely cleansed, without any tinge of material quality. Yat tat sattva-guṇaṁ svacchaṁ śāntam. Śāntam. Everyone is seeking peace of mind. People come to spiritual societies or some other way. Everyone is searching after some peace, śāntam. Śānti. The śānti can be attained when this sattva-guṇaṁ svaccham, when the sattva-guṇa, your status will be on the sattva-guṇa and completely cleansed. Then you can get śānti. Completely cleansed means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "There is no lamentation, and there is no hankering." Then it is śānti. As soon as there is some hankering, you cannot have śānti. That is not possible. And as soon as there is some possession, you cannot be without lamentation. The two things material, they are ruling over us. We are hankering after something which we do not possess, and what we possess, if it is lost, then we are lamenting. So śānti means no hankering, no lamenting. That is called śānti.

*So generally, whatever we may possess, but the hankering is there. That is rajo*-guṇa. That is rajo-guṇa, always hankering, even up to the stage of so-called perfection. Just like the karmīs. Karmīs, they think that perfection of life is very, very high standard of life, very happy, comfortable. Just like in the Western countries, they think that to have nice roads, nice motorcar, and very high skyscraper building, and facilities, modern comforts... What is called? So that is the standard of happiness. And we Eastern people, we are also imitating them. But actually, ask them, who possesses all them, that "Whether you have attained the position of no hankering?" No, that is not possible. The hankering is there. What to think of possessing these material facilities, even one goes to the heavenly planet, that is also included within the happiness of the karmīs. They want happiness in this world as well as after this world. After death also, they want to go to the heavenly planet, Svargaloka, where the duration of life is many, many thousands of years, and the standard of happiness is very, very high. There the place is very beautiful, the women are very beautiful, the gardens there... These descriptions are there. Nandana-kānana and apsarās there are. So this is also another higher standard of life, duration of life. That is the position of the karmīs.

*And the jñānīs, they are hankering after to become one with the Supreme. They have experienced that even the standard of material happiness available in the heavenly planets, that also did not give them complete satisfaction. So they aspire to become one with the Supreme, that "That will give me happiness. I become one with..." Monist. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am one with Brahman." So that is also hankering. Mukti. Mukti means liberation from this material unhappiness and come to the spiritual happiness, "I am Brahman. I am the same Supreme," thinking, concoction, like that. So there is also hankering. And siddhi, yogis, they want many perfection: aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti*-siddhi, prākāmya, īśitā, vaśitā. There are eight kinds of yogic siddhi. You can become smaller than the smallest, you can become bigger than the biggest, you can become lighter than the lightest, you can get anything you like immediately. These are some of the yoga-siddhis. But this is also hankering. This is also hankering, not śānta. Either karmī... What to speak of ordinary being? They are simply hankering. Even the so-called perfect karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they are also not śānta. They are hankering.

*Therefore Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kaṛacā says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-sakali 'aśānta.' Kāmī. Kāmī means one who desires. So either you desire comforts of this material body in different standard of life, either in this planet or other planet... Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet for getting higher standard of life. Unfortunately, they are not allowed to stay there. They come back. So you cannot go in the higher planets in that way. You must be fit for going there. I have several times discussed this matter. Just like American standard of life is better than our Indian standard of life, but you cannot enter America or the Americans cannot enter India without required visa permission; *similarly, it is not that by your whims you can enter into the higher planetary system. That is not possible. Anyway, these are the field of activities of the karmīs, those who want to become happy by their active execution. "I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in this way, and make my plan like that." These are karmīs. They are making simply plans to become happy, but they forget that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This material world is the place for suffering. They forget that. The scientists, the physists, they are all trying to make this life very comfortable. They are called durāśayā. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum... [SB 7.5.31]. What is that? Durāśayā. They are thinking that "By material adjustment, we can be happy." Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These karmīs, they have got a hope which will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśā. Āśā means hope, and durāśā means which will never be successful.

*So these materialistic persons, the karmīs, they are trying to be happy by material adjustment. That has been described in the Bhāgavata, durāśayā: "This kind of hope is never to be fulfilled. It will never be successful." But the karmīs, they think they will be successful. They are struggling very hard. So durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. How? Now, bahir-artha. Bahiḥ, bahiḥ prajñā, or external energy, or the material energy. The material energy is called external energy. So that is called bahiḥ. Bahiḥ means external.

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



Because they are thinking so, tied up by the rules and regulation of the stringent laws of material nature. But they are thinking... They are called karmīs.



*So they cannot be śānta. By material activities you cannot be happy or peaceful. That is not possible. That is being explained here, that yat tat sattva*-guṇaṁ svacchaṁ śāntam. Sattva-guṇa. You have to come to the platform of the mode of goodness, and still it is to be purified. That is called vasudeva platform, or transcendental platform. As it is explained in the Bhagava..., vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. That time, when you come to that platform, you will see everything godly. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything God conscious. That is the platform of śānti. Beyond that or before that, you cannot have. Either you become karmī, or you become jñānī, or you become yogi, there is no question of śānti. That is not possible. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaṛacā says that kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta' [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. "A kṛṣṇa-bhakta, a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, a person who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no such desire." He has no such desire. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says in His prayer, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. This is the position of devotee. Generally karmīs, they want something from God. They go to temple, they go to church, for begging something: "I am distressed. I have no money. Kindly give me some money." "I am hungry, give me my daily bread." "Give me," something "give me." So this so long we are on the platform of "give me," you will never be happy. You will get it. If you go to God and ask Him, "God, give me my daily bread," so it is not very difficult for God to give you bread. He is giving bread to everyone. Why not to you? He is giving bread to the elephants, He is giving bread to the ants, and what you can eat? That is not very difficult thing. But you should go to God not for begging something but for giving something. That is Vāsudeva stage. Then you will get śānti, when you will go to God not for begging material happiness or material liberation, mukti, bhukti-mukti, and not for any jugglery, magic things, just like yogis show some magic.

So if you want all these things, then you will never get happiness. You will be troubled. Therefore a devotee... Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's standard of devotion: nothing to possess. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. Nothing to possess.

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



*Bhakti. Bhakti means our relationship with God is bhakti, giving service. God is great, and we are most insignificant servant of God. Our business is to give service to God. When you come to this stage, then there will be śānti. Otherwise there is no possibility of śānti. Bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-sakali 'aśānta,' kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta' [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta has no desire. Why he shall desire? He knows, "Kṛṣṇa is there. Whatever I need, He will supply." And Kṛṣṇa said, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham, teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānām: [Bg. 9.22] "Those who are constantly engaged in My service, I take care how to supply their necessities of life." Then why shall I disbelieve Kṛṣṇa if I am Kṛṣṇa conscious? Let me do my duty as servant of Kṛṣṇa, and whatever necessities are required, He will arrange for them. If you become confident about this thing and completely engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the stage of śānta. That is the stage of śānta. Completely dependent. Avaśya rakhibe kṛṣṇa viśvāsa pālana. "I surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66], so I give up everything. Even my livelihood, I give up. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān.



So if I give up everything that I may be doubtful, "Then how things will go on? How I shall live if give it?" No, you shall live if you believe in Kṛṣṇa. Rakṣiṣyati iti viśvāsa pālanam. If Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall give you protection," so why shall I not believe it? This is called surrender, full surrender, that "Kṛṣṇa, let me engage myself in Kṛṣṇa's service as Kṛṣṇa orders."

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*If we take this assurance from Kṛṣṇa, then there is śānti. Otherwise there is no śānti. That is called sattva*-guṇaṁ svaccham. "So I am taking to this worship of Deity, but at the same time let me have something privately so that in case of my distress, if Kṛṣṇa fails to help me, this money will help me." That is not svaccham. Svaccham means clear. That is not... Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises,



*niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad*-bhajanonmukhasya

*pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava*-sāgarasya

sandarśanaṁ viṣayiṇām atha yoṣitāṁ ca

*hā hanta hanta viṣa*-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu

[Cc. Madhya 11.8]



*So we, of course, we are not so advanced, but we have got many examples of advanced devotees. Still there are in India. You will find in Vṛndāvana and other places. Actually, they have no means*-simply depending. They take their bath in the Yamunā and sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are still such devotees. But everything is going on. So that is śānta, completely depending on God. That is the highest stage of devotional life. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. There are many stories and many incidences. And that's a fact, that, as it is said by Bhagavān,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām

[Bg. 5.29]



*Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām. He is well-wisher, friend, of everyone. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. If we actually believe in Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, that "He is friend of everyone. And why He is not my friend?" Everyone means I am included also. So this kind of faith, when there is this faith, then bhagavad-bhakti begins. When we take up this instruction of Kṛṣṇa very seriously,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

[Bg. 18.66]



vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



This is the beginning of mahātmā. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ.



*So mahātmā's business is: ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate. A mahātmā has no other business than devotional service, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, always hearing about the Supreme Lord, always glorifying the Supreme Lord, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But that we do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. That we do not know. And because people, they do not know it, therefore this mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is there, just to make people enlightened, "Know it now. Know it now. In the other previous lives, cats, dogs, trees, and fishes and insects and all so many other-there are eight million, four hundred...*-you could not know it. Now you have got this human form of body. Take advantage of this knowledge. Take advantage of the information given in the Vedic literature." Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. "You have got so much advantages. Now learn them. And you have got developed consciousness, human being. Try to understand them. And then your life will be successful."

*To come to that state, here it is stated that you have to purify your citta, consciousness, svaccham, crystallike, crystallike, transparent, svaccham. And that śāntaṁ bhagavataḥ padam, that is the stage of understanding Bhagavān. Evaṁ prasanna*-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ [SB 1.2.20]. This stage can be attained by bhagavad-bhakti, by devotional service. This devotional service begins simply by hearing and chanting. We have got all these books. Anyone can take advantage of these books. Now it is translated into English. Of course, we are getting very, very good, encouraging reports from Western countries. Our books are selling very nicely, beyond our capacity of supply, all over Europe, America especially. Especially in America, all libraries, colleges, professors, educationists, they are very with great respect receiving these books.

*So these books are there to remind us: ataeva kṛṣṇa veda*-purāṇa paḍilā. Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, because we have forgotten God on account of restless mind, so we have to make it śānta, calm and peaceful. Without becoming calm and peaceful, you cannot understand what is God. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. When our heart will be no more attacked by the sattva-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, we come into the platform..., er, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa... Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. This class is held for understanding Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why? Just to cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Not that we are almost free from all the contamination, but even little washed away... It begins immediately. As soon as you begin hearing and chanting of these literatures or chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, immediately the cleansing method begins. And naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. Almost cleansed, not that properly, cent percent clean. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Daily. Not this Bhāgavata-saptāha, official. No. Nityam. There is no such thing as Bhāgavata-saptāha in any Vedic literature. This is another manufacture, concoction. The Bhāgavata says, nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā: "You have to twenty-four hours engaged in bhāgavata, in the service of bhāgavata, the person bhāgavata or the book Bhāgavata." Bhāgavata, there are two kinds of bhāgavata. Person bhāgavata is the spiritual master, and the book Bhāgavata. So there is no difference, because the person bhāgavata advises you read Bhāgavata. And by reading Bhāgavata, you understand what is Bhagavān, what is spiritual master.

So in this way,

*naṣṭa*-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu

*nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā

bhagavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

[SB 1.2.18]



This is the process to make the heart cleansed and gradually attain the perfection of complete peacefulness. And that complete peacefulness is the stage for understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



Thank you very much. (end)



741231SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.22

-

Bombay, December 31, 1974



*Nitāi: "After the manifestation of the mahat*-tattva, these features appear simultaneously. As water in its natural state, before coming in contact with earth, is clear, sweet and unruffled, so the characteristic traits of pure consciousness are complete serenity, clarity, and freedom from distraction."



Prabhupāda:



svacchatvam avikāritvaṁ

śāntatvam iti cetasaḥ

vṛttibhir lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ

yathāpāṁ prakṛtiḥ parā

[SB 3.26.22]



*In the previous verse we have discussed that yat tat sattva*-guṇaṁ svaccham. Svaccham means transparent, clear. Now that svacchatvam is explained, what is the meaning of clarity, clear-uncontaminated. These are the symptoms: svacchatvam avikāritvam, without any change. "Freedom from all distraction." Just like here there are many mothers sitting, and the natural affection for the child and the child's complete dependence on the mother's mercy is visible. There is no need of explanation. That is natural. If the mother is taking care of the child, it is not artificial. And if the child is feeling uncomfort without being on the lap of the mother, that is also natural. This is called avikāritvam, natural affection between the mother and the son. Similarly, we have got our natural affection for Kṛṣṇa.



*That is explained in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta:

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



Just like sex impulse. It doesn't require to, how to awaken sex impulse, natural; *similarly, kṛṣṇa*-bhakti is our natural inheritance because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or sons of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. It is the same example, that as the mother and the child has got natural affection, similarly, with Bhagavān we have got natural affection. Bhagavān has got natural affection for us, and we have got also natural affection for Bhagavān. And the external covering which checks this natural affection, this is called māyā. Just like touch... What is called, magnetic stone? Magnetic stone naturally attracts the iron, and iron is naturally attracted by the magnetic stone. Similarly, kṛṣṇa-bhakti is not something which is unnaturally taught or unnaturally gained, artificial. This...



*Another vivid example is this: These foreigners, Western boys and girls, how they became attracted with Kṛṣṇa consciousness unless it is natural? Their forefathers or they also, even four, five, six years ago, they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, neither they cared to know. But now they are almost mad after Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, why they are coming here? They have not come here in India to see your skyscraper building or industry. They are not at all interested. They have seen all these things in their own country. They have enough. So why they have come here? They are after Vṛndāvana. They are after Māyāpura. They are after me. What is the attraction? The attraction is Kṛṣṇa. They are not interested with anything else. They do not go to see your skyscraper building in New Delhi or in Bombay. They have seen it enough. So why it is so? Because it is natural. Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is natural. That is the original consciousness.

*The example is given here: yathā apāṁ prakṛtiḥ parā. Just like the water, rains, fall from the sky. If you do not allow to touch the water, the ground, you take it in the middle, you will find crystal, distilled water. You will find. And as soon as it comes down on the ground, it becomes muddy, the purity lost. Muddy, opaque, you cannot see, agitated. Similarly, our original consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is svaccha, svacchatvam avikāritvam. In the original consciousness we do not know anything else than Kṛṣṇa. Avikāritvam. There is no change. Therefore in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, especially in the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, that is exhibited. When Kṛṣṇa comes to show His dhāma-goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni*-that is His own abode. So Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa comes, He brings everything with Him: His dhāma, His qualities, His place, His paraphernalia, His associates, His father, His mother, His friend, His consort, His trees, His water-everything He brings. That is Vṛndāvana. You will find in Vṛndāvana still-still you will find-people are all automatically Kṛṣṇa conscious. Eighty-four, curāśī crores, about 160 miles' area. So they are Kṛṣṇa conscious naturally. And if you go to Vṛndāvana, this area, wherever you go, you will feel Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the example of purity is still there. And what to speak of in the original Vṛndāvana?

*So from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you will find the vṛndāvana-līlā*-the cowherds boys and the cows, the calves, the trees, the plants, the flowers, the water. The description is there that everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. They do not know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They do not know it; *neither they care to know it. What is Supreme Personality of Godhead, what is Brahman, what is Paramātmā, they do not care to know these things. But they have unalloyed, unflinching love for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yaśodāmāyi is seeing wonderful things in Kṛṣṇa, but she never thinks that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa." She thinks that "Kṛṣṇa is my child. This wonderful thing has happened due to providence." She thinks that "The Supreme Lord or the Absolute Truth is different, and here Kṛṣṇa is my child." So as I have already said, the love for the child of the mother is natural. So that is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. Everyone loves Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is overwhelmed with love of Kṛṣṇa. When they cannot find Kṛṣṇa, they become mad. Although they do not know that Kṛṣṇa... When they see some wonderful activities of Kṛṣṇa, they think, "Some demigod might have come here. Otherwise, how this wonderful thing is possible?" So this is pure love. This is pure love, without any knowledge of the supreme powerful, almighty. That is svacchatvam, no contamination*-pure love.

So the mission of human life should be how to clarify this consciousness again into that pure consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the mission of human life. The consciousness is impure; *therefore there are so many varieties, material varieties, and we are captivated by these material varieties. But that is not giving us any happiness. We are especially very much unhappy on account of janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. So if we want to get relief from the miserable condition of this material life... This place is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: [Bg. 8.15] "This place is meant for miseries." Do not try to become happy here. That is foolishness, mūḍha. Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. "The mūḍhas, these rascals, they do not know that here he cannot be..., one cannot be happy, because real happiness is when he comes back to Me." Mām ebhyaḥ param... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is real happiness. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So everyone is very, working very hard, struggling for existence, but they do not know how they can actually become happy. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. That they do not know. So it is our humble attempt only, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. At least, we inform people that "This is the way of happiness." Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tat [Bg. 6.21]. "Don't be carried away by temporary so-called happiness. That is not happiness. This is called māyā." Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Kṛṣṇa says, mūḍha, and Prahlāda Mahārāja says, vimūḍhān*-not only mūḍha, but again added with word vi, viśiṣṭa. Viśiṣṭa-prakāreṇa mūḍha. Vi, therefore vimūḍha.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. That is the thankless task of the devotees, to turn these vimūḍhān from this māyā-sukha to real sukha. This is the business of the devotees. They have no other business. Their business is not for making money. Money, they have got enough, and Kṛṣṇa supplies all their money. So there is no such problem for a devotee of how to secure money. Their only problem is how to turn these rascals to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all rascals, vimūḍhān. We say clearly, "If you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you are rascal number one." "No, I am M.A. Ph.D." "Still, you are rascal." That is our verdict. "We don't care for your Ph.D. I know that you are a rascal because you do not know Kṛṣṇa." Just a few minutes before, one gentleman came to see me, and he advertised himself that "I have read Vedas, I have read the Purāṇas, I have seen Dr. Radhakrishnan, but I do not get peace of mind." So I asked him, "You have studied so many literatures. Do you know who is God?" And the God who has created this, what is His name, what is the address-that he does not know. Yes. This is going on. Vimūḍhān. They are proud of education, proud of learning, advancement, everything, all right, complete. But real knowledge-"Do you know God?"*-that he cannot explain. That he cannot explain. He will explain something hodgepodge. This is the disease. Therefore they are vimūḍhān.

Real knowledge means to understand God. That is real knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. What is the Veda, Vedānta? To know Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa and God, the same. If one knows God but does not know Kṛṣṇa, his knowledge of God is incomplete. His knowledge of God is incomplete. When he knows that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, then his knowledge is perfect.

*ete cāṁśa*-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ

kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam

*indrāri*-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ

mṛḍayanti yuge yuge

[SB 1.3.28]



*And Kṛṣṇa said that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. The Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "God, or Absolute Truth, means the source of everything." And the source of everything is coming down before you and in His original form, Kṛṣṇa. Dvi*-bhuja-muralīdhara, Kṛṣṇa. Here He is standing, and He is preaching, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: "I am the source of everything." Mūḍho nābhijānāti. But the rascals, they do not understand that God is speaking in everyone's presence, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ, "I am," aham "like this," aham. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Still, the rascal will not. Just see how much rascals we are.



*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that vimūḍhān, māyā*-sukhāya. They are trying to be happy within this material existence-māyā-sukhāya bharam. Bharam means gorgeous arrangement, very gorgeous arrangement, very big, big road, big, big skyscraper building, and big machine, big industry, and so many big, big things, big, big words, big, big politician, and big, big political activities. But so mūḍha that he does not think for a moment, "How long these big, big things will be enjoyed by me? I have... Certainly there is credit for creating all these big, big things, but māyā will not allow me to enjoy these things. At any moment I shall be kicked out. And what insurance and guarantee I have made, just I can enjoy this?" Therefore it is called māyā-sukhāya: wasting time making gorgeous arrangement. Not only the sukha, but this whole thing can be finished within a second. If there is a big earthquake, everything will be finished. We have got experience many times-anything will be finished. This Bombay can be turned into sea, and the Bombay can be pushed in an island within the sea. Material nature is so strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. And under her spell we are trying to become happy. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43].

*And the devotees, the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they know that this is all false*-not false: temporary, simply bewildering. On account of contaminated consciousness, people are trying to be happy in this way, but devotees know that this kind of endeavor is simply bewildering, simply waste of time. Real business is how to purify my consciousness, come to the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real business. Svacchatvam avikāritvam. That is our real business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching is that our only business is how to revive our original consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Without this, whatever we are doing, in the words of Śrīla Prahlāda Mahārāja, "It is all māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, māyā-sukhāya [SB 7.9.43]."

*Therefore these are the symptoms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness: svacchatvam, avikāritvam, śāntatvam. Śānta I have already explained last night several times also, that śāntatvam, śānti... Just like I told you that many people coming: "Oh, I do not get any peace of mind." How you will get peace of mind? Here in the material world you cannot be endowed with the peace of mind. It is not possible. Why? Because here everything is māyā. Bharam udvahato vimūḍhān. Asad*-grahāt, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Asat. Asat means that which will not stand. The material nature is like that. It will not stand. This body we have got at a certain date, and it will continue up to certain date, then it will vanish. You will get never again this body, finished. So this is called asat. Asato mā sad gama. This is Vedic instruction: "Don't remain in the asat, temporary." Sad gama: "Come to the platform of eternity." Asato mā sad gama.

*So śānti cannot be attained so long we are attached to this asat. Asad*-grahāt sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. We are... All people in this material world, we are always samyag udvigna, samudvigna. Udvigna means anxiety, always full of anxieties. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Why samudvigna-dhiyām? Kṛṣṇa consciousness means this, svacchatvam avikāritvaṁ śāntatvam, these three things, Kṛṣṇa consciousness: clear understanding; no change, no change from Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *and śāntatvam, peaceful. Just like a man-ordinarily we perceive-a gentleman, after working very hard, if he gets some bank balance and nice house, nice wife, and some children, he thinks, "I am very happy." This is also māyā. He thinks, "But I am happy." What kind of māyā? Pramattaḥ teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. He is in māyā, mad, illusion, pramatta. He does not see that these things will be also finished. Teṣāṁ nidhanam. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api [SB 2.1.4]. Asatsu api. He knows that this position, nice position, very good atmosphere, nice children, nice wife, nice house, nice bank balance, nice relative, nice position, everything, prime minister and everything*-very all right. But it will be finished in no time. But he, although knows, he does not care for it. This is called vimūḍhān. He knows that "This will finished. It will not stay, I will not stay, these things will not stay. I will have to change. They will have to change." It is just like straws gathered together by the whims of the waves, and again it is scattered.

*So we are going on the waves of māyā. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, therefore, says, māyār bośe, jāccho bhese': "You rascal, you are going, floating under the spell of māyā." Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi: "And sometimes you are drowned and sometimes in the up by the tricks of the waves. Why you are leading such life?" Jīv kṛṣṇa*-dās, e biśwās, korle to' ār duḥkho nāi: "You come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and try to understand that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa; *you are being carried away by the whims of māyā. So that will make you happy." Therefore Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, er, Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches us, patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau: "My Lord," ayi nanda-tanuja, "O the son of Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa, I am Your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean of nescience." Patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau. Bhava ambudhau. Ambudhi means sea, ocean. "So how to save myself?" Kṛpayā tava pāda-paṅkaja-sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśaṁ vicintaya.

*This is our only business. This Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "O Kṛṣṇa, O Harā, Kṛṣṇa's energy, Rādhārāṇī, Harā..." Hari Harā. So this addressing, "O Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa's internal potency..." Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, chanting, addressing: "O Lord Kṛṣṇa, O the internal energy of Kṛṣṇa." So They will respond that "Why you are calling Me, or Us?" You have to submit, "Please again accept me as Your eternal servant." This is the only prayer, not that "Give me this money, this me that, this me that. Give me that." No. That is not pure devotion. That is devotion, but it is mixed. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. That is pious life. When we ask from Kṛṣṇa anything other than devotional service, that is pious activities. That is not devotional activities. Devotional activity is different from pious activity. By pious activities you can get material, so-called happiness, Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. You can get birth in very nice family, rich family, brāhmaṇa family, janma, and you can get immense wealth, born with silver spoon, and aiśvarya-śruta, education, nice education, material education, and śrī, beauty. Generally, you will find in aristocratic family, rich family, they are very beautiful, they have got education, they have got wealth and good family, aristocratic family. So these are result of pious activities.

*So we should utilize the result of pious activities to become more pure. That is called svaccha. We have discussed this verse, svaccha. Yat tat sattva*-guṇaṁ svaccham. That is... Just like you have got by, on account of pious activities you have got very nice surroundings, aristocratic family, wealth, beauty, education, but it may be polluted again by the other two qualities, means tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. Then you are finished again. Naturally they become polluted. But they do not know that "By dint of pious activities, I have got this position" and misuse the position by tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, and therefore they again go to hell. This way we are wandering all over the universes, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. We are sometimes rich man, sometimes poor man, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog, sometimes this, sometimes that. This is going on. That is called māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. They do not know the ultimate happiness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but wandering in this way.

So therefore this is the best welfare activity to the human society, to awaken them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that they will again revive their original svaccha consciousness, and they will be śānta. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he was pious, born in a very pious family, and by family quarrel he went to worship the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu in the forest, aspiring material opulence. He was a child. He thought that "My stepmother has insulted. I shall go to God and take from Him such opulence which is many, many millions times better than my father's." That was his ambition. But when he actually saw Lord Viṣṇu standing... He was meditating Viṣṇu. All of a sudden he saw the Viṣṇu is missing within the heart. Then his meditation broke, and he saw Lord Viṣṇu is present before him. So this is not very difficult for Lord Viṣṇu. He is always within your heart, and if He likes, He can come outside and become visible by you. That is not very difficult. So when he saw Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu offered, "My dear boy, what do you want? Take benediction," so he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce.

*This is perfection: "I am fully satisfied." Svaccha, śānta, no demand. No demand. That is position, no demand. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce. This is the highest perfection. That is called svacchatvam avikāritvaṁ śāntatvam. And this śāntatvam cannot be attained unless you become pure devotee and fully dependent on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the standard of śāntatvam or vasudeva-śabditam. Svacchatvam śāntatvam. Everyone is hankering after śāntatvam, the whole world, because in the material world you cannot be on the platform of śāntatvam. Only on the spiritual platform and when you are engaged in the service of the Lord, then you will get this position, svacchatvam avikāritvaṁ śāntatvam. Iti cetasaḥ vṛttibhir lakṣaṇaṁ proktam. How one has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there are, these are the symptoms, the brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na... [Bg. 18.54]. We have to understand by the symptoms. If somebody says, "I am very rich man," so generally we want to see the symptoms: "Oh, he is very rich man. Oh, he has got this car. He has got this house. He has got this..." Then we can understand he is rich man. But if these symptoms are not there, how we can understand that he is rich man? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means these are the symptoms: svacchatvam avikāritvaṁ śāntatvam. When you attain these three stages, these symptom, then you are perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Thank you very much. (end)



750101SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.23-4

-

Bombay, January 1, 1975



*Nitāi: "The material energy springs up from the mahat*-tattva, which evolved from the Lord's own energy. The material ego is endowed predominantly with active power of three kinds-good, passionate and ignorant. From these three types of material ego the mind, the senses of perception, and the organs of action, and the gross elements evolve."



Prabhupāda:



*mahat*-tattvād vikurvāṇād

*bhagavad*-vīrya-sambhavāt

kriyā-śaktir ahaṅkāras

*tri*-vidhaḥ samapadyata



vaikārikas taijasaś ca

tāmasaś ca yato bhavaḥ

manasaś cendriyāṇāṁ ca

bhūtānāṁ mahatām api

[SB 3.26.23-24]



*So the process of creation, how, one after another, it takes place, that is described here. So the total energy, mahat-tattva, by interaction, the begins... The moving, the pushing, begins from the bhagavad-vīryatā. Bhagavad-vīrya-sambhavāt. Vīrya means energy. We understand vīrya sometimes*-the semina. It is something like that; not exactly the material semina, but potency or energy, spiritual energy. That is the beginning of creation.



*So wherefrom the creative energy begins? That is... In the Vedic literature we understand, sa aikṣata: "Simply by glancing." Not... When there is the word vīrya, it does not mean that, as in the material world, we discharge semina by sex intercourse. It is not like that. That vīrya, that energy, can be emanated from the Supreme Personality of Godhead any way. Therefore bhagavad*-vīrya-sambhavāt. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Vīryatā we can understand as semina discharged from the genital. It is not like that. Vīryatā, that vīrya or that energy, can be emanated from any part of the body, of the transcendental spiritual body, everywhere. That is called omnipotency. So just like Lord Brahmā was born not from the womb of Lakṣmī Nārāyaṇa... Nārāyaṇa was lying down, and Lakṣmī was present. To beget Lord Brahmā, there was no necessity of taking the help of Lakṣmījī. He sprouted a lotus flower from His navel, and there was Brahmā. So everything is possible from every part of the body, transcendental body. That is spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], omnipotent. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. The limbs and the parts of the body has got the potency of any other limb. Just like we can beget child, we can impregnate by the genital, but it is not required for the Supreme Personality of God. In the Vedas it is said, sa aikṣata: "Simply by glancing the same." The same. "He glanced over the total material energy, and the material energy, total mahat-tattva, became agitated." Then, one after another, the creation was there.

*So kriyā-śaktir ahaṅkāras tri*-vidhaḥ. Kriyā-śakti, the creative energy, kriyā-śakti. God is not impotent. He is fully potent, and His energies are acting. We can experience in our daily life. So this kriyā-śakti begins in three different categories, tri-vidhaḥ. Kriyā-śaktir ahaṅkāras tri-vidhaḥ samapadyata. Ahaṅkāra, ego, identification, "I am." Everyone is conscious of his activities, ego: "I am doing this." But this ego, this is called false ego. This material, under the material energy, this ego, is called another way upādhi, designation. The real ego is ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." But on account of being in touch, being born in this material world, my kriyā-śakti, my activities, are being done under different designation, under tri-vidhaḥ. Why under different designation. Because immediately there is creation, the guṇamayī, the three kinds of modes of material nature, they also become manifest, and on account of this, our ego, false ego, association with a particular type of material modes of nature, I am thinking, "I am like this" or "I am this." Just like in this body, I am thinking, "I am a human being" or "I am Indian" or "I am brāhmaṇa" or "I am sannyāsī," or this or that, so many things. Similarly, when I am in the dog's body, so I think, "I am dog. My business is barking and give service to the master." In different bodies different ego. This is called upādhi, upādhi, three kinds of upādhi: sāttvika-upādhi, rājasika-upādhi, tāmasika-upādhi. But originally there was no upādhi. The upādhi begins when the sṛṣṭi, creation, begins under different ego.

*So originally it is svacchatvam avikāritvaṁ śāntatvam iti cetasaḥ. The consciousness is pure. The same example, as we have explained yesterday, that the water is coming from the sky. Before touching the ground it is pure, crystal, distilled water. So before touching this material energy... Icchā*-dveṣa samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. Before our material body creation, in spiritual consciousness, it is clear, crystal clear. But when it is agitated by the material desires... In Bengali there is that poetry, kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. What is that? That desire is that "I can independently enjoy." The example... There are many such examples. Just like a man is honest, but if he becomes polluted by the desire that "If I can get that money by fair or unfair means, I will become rich, so let me take this money," so immediately mind becomes agitated, and it becomes under the spell of criminality. Then gradually, under superior judgment, I am put into the prison house.

*So similarly, originally we are all pure, Kṛṣṇa conscious, but as we have got little independence... Because we are part and parcel of God, therefore*-God has got full independence-so we have got independence according to the quantity. Just like a small drop of ocean water has got a little quantity of salt also, similarly, we are aṇu, and God is vibhu; He is Prabhu, and we are servant; He is master, we are servant. The master has got independence, and the servant has also independence, not that because one is servant, he has no independence. He has got independence. If he likes, he can give up the service of the master and live independently. This is crude example. Similarly, our material contamination means that, when we desire to live without Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "Why we shall be subservient to Kṛṣṇa? We shall live independently..." That is going on.

*Material life means everyone is trying to become victorious in the struggle of existence without God consciousness. That is our material disease. Kṛṣṇa*-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. We may revolt. That independence we have got, little independence, and we can misuse it, that "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Let me serve myself." "Let me serve myself" means "Let me serve my different propensities, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya," like that. My independence means "I will not serve God; *I will serve my lusty desires." You cannot become independent. This is a concoction only, that "I will not serve Kṛṣṇa." But you have to serve. What is that? "Then I serve my lusty desires." Indriya*-tṛpti, indriya-tṛpti. Yad indriya-prītaye. Simply to satisfy... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means there is no such thing as indriya-tṛpti, or sense gratification. Everything for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hṛṣīka means the indriya, or the senses. That is stated here also, manasaś cendriyāṇāṁ ca bhūtānāṁ mahatām api, that different types of indriya for sense gratification, we develop. This is the creation, every one of us developing, and it is become complicated with so many other desires. Each life is full of desires.

*Therefore in the Guru*-stotra in the morning we recite, ār nā koriho mane āśā. Is it not? What is that?

Devotee: Ār nā koriho mane āśā.



*Prabhupāda: Ār nā koriho mane āśā. So that is required. Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya... **?



Devotee: Cittete koriyā aikya.



*Prabhupāda: Cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā. That is liberation. Otherwise we shall be implicated. And what guru says? Guru says the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says. That is guru. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Kṛṣṇa also... Guru also says the same thing. That is guru's business, that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and fully be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service." So therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura advises, "Take this very seriously." Ār nā koriho mane āśā: "No more. Stop any other desires." Then your life is successful. Ār nā koriho mane āśā.



vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

*ekeha kuru*-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

[Bg. 2.41]



Buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām. Vyavasāyātmikā, niścayātmikā. "Now, my life will be successful when I accept very seriously the instruction given by Kṛṣṇa and it is delivered to me through the transparent via media of guru. Then it will be successful." Ār nā koriho mane āśā.



*So some way or other, originally, we are all Kṛṣṇa conscious, pure, svaccha. Svacchatvam avikāritvam. Now vikurvāṇāt, now, being transformed or agitated somehow or other... Anādi karama-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale. We cannot ascertain when this transformation took place. There is no necessity of making research how we fell in this material contamination or envelopment. But we should be intelligent enough to understand that we are fallen now. That is... How we fell*-you can trace out the history, but it is very difficult because anādi karama-phale, nobody can ascertain. Just like when a man is diseased he goes to doctor. So when he goes to the doctor, the doctor gives him medicine according to the symptoms and the diagnosis. There is no necessity of find out the history, how he fell diseased. There is history, but that is not possible to trace out. Therefore it is said, anādi karama-phale. Anādi. Anādi means... Ādi means the creation. Creation... Before creation, I contaminated this desire, icchā-dveṣa samutthena [Bg. 7.27]. I became revolting to the desires. Kṛṣṇa says... Every one of us revolting now also. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], but we are revolting, "Why? Why shall I surrender to You? This is too much You are demanding." This is going on. This is going on. This is the disease. And to cure the disease Kṛṣṇa Himself comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmi [Bg. 4.7]. But we are so stubborn that we won't, do not like to be cured.

*So what Kṛṣṇa will do? How Kṛṣṇa will help? He is coming. He is sending His devotee. He is leaving behind Him the śāstras. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda*-purāṇa karila. The Vedic literature, Veda, Purāṇa... "So I elaborately explained the Vedic ideals in the Purāṇas." Purāṇa means supplementary. They are not to be neglected, the history. Then Mahābhārata, then Vedānta Purāṇa, er, Vedānta philosophy, then explanation of Vedānta philosophy, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Mahābhārata means which contains Bhagavad-gītā. So many literatures there are. And who has made it? Made it, Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva is Kṛṣṇa's incarnation. Vyāsāvatāra. That is stated in the śāstras. So Vyāsadeva made all this literature. That means Kṛṣṇa made through His incarnation. Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta we find this verse: anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli' gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila.(?)

*So some way or other, we are fallen in this material condition of life, making a... Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. This manasaś cendriyāṇi, as it is stated here, manasaś ca indriyāṇāṁ ca bhūtānāṁ mahatām api. Mahā-bhūta, mahā-bhūta, these five elements, kṣitir āp tejo marud vyoma, and mind. So in this way we are entrapped, and there is struggle. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati, mamaivāṁśa: [Bg. 15.7] "They are My part and parcel. They can live as good as I am, but unfortunately, they are undergoing a struggle for existence on account of this polluted mind." What is that pollution? Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. He thinks that "What is the use of..." this is, what is called, "service mentality, slave mentality." They say, "This bhakti-mārga is slave mentality. Instead of becoming God, they want to become servant or slave of God. So this is slave mentality." No, this is not slave mentality. This is actual liberation, because our constitutional position is to remain. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. But somehow or other, we revolted. Still we are revolting. Although Kṛṣṇa coming and canvassing, "Just surrender unto Me," but still we are revolting. This is our disease. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7].

*So if we want to be cured again and come to our original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is svacchatvam avikāritvam śāntatvam iti cetasaḥ, then we have to take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only way. There is no other way to become peaceful. Śāntatvam avikār..., without any change, fixed-up mind*-that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, śānti. If you want... Everyone is hankering after śānti. The śānti formula is given everywhere in the śāstra. And the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is personally saying, "This is śānti." What is this?

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā mām śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām-who? Not these political leaders. We are taking these political leaders as our friend and carried away by their dictation. Some political leader says, "You do like this," another political leader, "Do like that." So we are not, no. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka..., suhṛdaṁ. If we want to take advice of real well-wisher, so suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Similarly, a sādhu, he is also suhṛdaṁ sarva-dehinām, the same thing. As Kṛṣṇa is the supreme friend, well-wisher, suhṛt... Suhṛt means good heart. Friend, mitra, it is little different from suhṛt. Mitra means I make friendship with you with some motive. But a father, he is suhṛt, mother is suhṛt, always well-wishing. Or there may be some friend also, always well-wishing. But the best example, that the father is always well-wishing: "How my son will be well situated? How he will be happy?" Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is... Kṛṣṇa says that "When one can understand Me as suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām," then śāntim ṛcchati, "then he will get śānti, śāntatvam." When we accept it, firmly convinced that "Kṛṣṇa is my father, Kṛṣṇa is my friend, Kṛṣṇa is my well-wisher..." And Kṛṣṇa says. Where is the difficulty? Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. He takes charge. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. He is giving assurance.



māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



Everything is there.



*So on account of this dirty position of material contamination, we cannot accept Kṛṣṇa as the real friend. Therefore we cannot get śānti. So if we want really śānti, then we must accept the formula, suhṛdaṁ sarva*-dehināṁ jñātvā mām, not this political leader, that political leader, no. They do not know what is the actually path of śānti. They cannot. They do not have śānti in themselves. How they can...? "Physician heal thyself." The physician himself is a diseased person, māyā-mohita, so how they can help us? So this is not possible. We have to accept Kṛṣṇa as suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā: [Bg. 5.29] He is the proprietor of everything. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Maheśvaram. Īśvara, maheśvaram. Parameśvaram. Maheśvaram or parameśvaram. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. In this way, if we can understand that "Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is my supreme friend," then śāntatvam, we can get śānti. Otherwise this material envelopment will always create disturbances and... Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. Then we will be always in fearful condition, in anxiety. But if we accept this formula, then no more we are in this, I mean to say, hodgepodge of this material existence. We will live clearly, svacchatvam. That is called svacchatvam avikāritvam.

*So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is not agitated by the material action and reaction. He remains fixed*-up, naiṣṭhikī-bhakti. This is called naiṣṭhikī-bhakti, niṣṭhā, firmly convinced. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ [SB 1.2.19]. Naiṣṭhikī-bhakti. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. This is abhadra, this material contamination, kriyā-śaktir ahaṅkāras tri-vidhaḥ, three kinds of kriyā-śakti: working in the modes of ignorance, working in the modes of passion... These are the moha, that when these two things, kriyā-śakti, this kriyā-śakti under the spell of passion and spell of ignorance, is almost gone... Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā.

*So this is the only process. Let us hear from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, not these professional. But just like here Kapiladeva is explaining Sāṅkhya philosophy. Every word of Bhāgavatam, sublime. And this is given to us by Vyāsadeva, because we do not know how to get out of this entanglement of material envelopment. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣāt, anartha. On account of being entangled in this material modes of nature, we have accumulated so many unwanted things, anartha. That is called anartha. Artha means substance, and anartha means illusory things. So many things. So that is our material condition of life, and the only remedy is become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and that is... How we can become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Viṣṇu means Kṛṣṇa. Simply hear and speak about Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



750102SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.25

-

Bombay, January 2, 1975



Nitāi: "The threefold ahaṅkāra, the source of the gross elements, the senses and the mind, is hence identical with them because it is their cause. It is known by the same of Saṅkarṣaṇa, who is directly Lord Ananta with a thousand heads."



Prabhupāda:



sahasra-śirasaṁ sākṣād

yam anantaṁ pracakṣate

saṅkarṣaṇākhyaṁ puruṣaṁ

*bhūtendriya*-manomayam

[SB 3.26.25]



*So this is the description of quadruple expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Advaitam acyutam anādir ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. How ananta-rūpam of Kṛṣṇa is expanded, now this is the beginning of such description. The first expansion is Balarāma, Baladeva. Nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. It is... In the Upaniṣad it is said, "Ātmā, the Supreme Soul, cannot be understood without being favored by Balarāma." This Balarāma sometimes misunderstood as the bodily strength, that "Without physical strength, nobody can attain the Supreme Personality of Godhead." But that is not the fact. Bala-hīnena means one who is not favored by Balarāma or Nityānanda, he cannot make any progress to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the real meaning, bala-hīnena: "without the favor of Balarāma." Balarāma is guru-tattva, and Balarāma is present in this age as Nityānanda. So bala-hīnena labhyaḥ does not mean "without any physical strength." One has to get favor of Nityānanda Prabhu. Nityānanda Prabhu, katiya mohan, avadhya karuna sindhu katiya mohan, durlabha kṛṣṇa-prema kare jare tare jana.(?) There is a song like that.



*So this first expansion is Balarāma. And from Balarāma, then catur-vyūha, Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha... Pradyumna, Aniruddha. So the Saṅkarṣaṇa feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the controller of bhūtendriya-manomayam. These five elements, bhūta, indriya, and the ten senses, and the mind. They are, similarly... Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha*-they are different controlling Deities of the different functions of the mind, intelligence, ego. So saṅkarṣaṇākhyaṁ puruṣaṁ sahasra-śirasam anantam. Ananta. You will find the picture of Nārāyaṇa lying down on Ananta-śayana(?). That Ananta caturdaśī-vrata. As there is Nṛsiṁha caturdaśī... A Vaiṣṇava, they have got different functions of appearance and disappearance days of Vaiṣṇava and Viṣṇu. Āvirbhāva, tirobhāva. Just the rising sun and the setting sun. When the sun sets, it does not mean the sun is finished. Of course, some of the former theosophists and scientists, they used to think that this is..., at night the sun is dead. That is not fact. The sun is not visible to our limited eyes. Similarly, appearance and disappearance of incarnation of Godhead is like that. They are going on just like the, a horse is running in due course, but when it comes in front of your door or window, you can see. But that does not mean the running of horse is stopped when you cannot see. Similarly, these incarnation of Godhead, ananta, unlimited, they are from this sahasra-śirasam Ananta, Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu.

*There are description in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. It is not possible to describe all the incarnation, how they are being manifest. But they are recorded in Vedic literature and especially in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. We have published our Caitanya-caritāmṛta. You have have reference, Ananta. There are so many different types of incarnation. Manvavatāra, manu-avatāra, there are five lakhs, 400,000..., four hundred. Five lakhs and four hundred manu-avatāra. So in the Bhāgavatam it is stated that the avatāras are constantly coming just like the waves of the ocean or waves of the river. You cannot count them. Only the most important avatāras are counted, and we offer our prayers. Just like Matsya avatāra, Kūrma avatāra, Varāha avatāra, Nṛsiṁha avatāra, Vāmana avatāra, then Paraśurāma avatāra, Lord Rāmacandra avatāra, Balarāma avatāra, Buddha avatāra. Buddha is also one of the incarnation. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. Śrīla Jayadeva Gosvāmī has offered his prayer to the ten avatāra, principal avatāra. Keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare.

*pralaya*-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedaṁ

*vihita*-vahitra-caritram akhedam

*keśava dhṛta*-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare **



Similarly, tortoise avatāra, Kūrma avatāra, Varāha avatāra. Nṛsiṁhadeva:



*tava kara*-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgaṁ

*dalita*-hiraṇyakaśipu-tanu-bhṛṅgam

*keśava dhṛta*-narahari-rūpa jaya jagadīśa hare



Similarly, Vāmana avatāra.



*So origin of all these avatāra is the Saṅkarṣaṇa, this Saṅkarṣaṇa. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanam [Bs. 5.33]. Kṛṣṇa is the ādyam. Purāṇa-puruṣam, the origin. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. All the avatāras... Kṛṣṇa is avatāri, the source of all avatāras. There are ananta, unlimited number of incarnation constantly coming like the waves of the river or the sea, but the original person is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa says, confirms it that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "All avatāra, everything, is all emanations from Me." So iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. So if we simply worship Kṛṣṇa*-Kṛṣṇa also demands that, mām ekam-then all the avatāras, all the demigods, everything, is worshiped.

*yathā taror mūla*-niṣecanena

*tṛpyanti tat*-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ

prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ

tathaiva sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā

[SB 4.31.14]



Acyuta ijyā. Acyuta is Kṛṣṇa. By worshiping Kṛṣṇa, you can worship all the incarnations, all the demigods. The example is given: just like watering the root of the tree, you can pour water to the branches, to the twigs, to the flowers, to the fruits, or by supplying food to the stomach you can energize all the different parts and limbs of the body, similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, by simply surrendering to Kṛṣṇa your obligation to all other incarnations, demigods, is fulfilled.



*It is not possible to worship all the incarnations, all the demigods, all the parts and limbs and parts of the body of the Kṛṣṇa, but simply by surrendering to Him, the origin of Saṅkarṣaṇa, you can worship everyone. And it is very easy. It is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He can accept the surrendering and service even of the poorest of the poorest. Ahaituky apratihatā. If you want to become devotee of God, Kṛṣṇa, no material things can check. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without any impediment. Any condition of life... Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te, pāpa*-yonayaḥ, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone. Everyone can worship. Kṛṣṇa is not monopolized by any section or any religion or any nation, any country. No. Kṛṣṇa claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ [Bg. 14.4]. All the species of life, as many forms of life as there are, Kṛṣṇa claims, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "I am the original seed-giving father." So Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone. And by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, you worship everything. If you have got a mentality to worship different demigods, different incarnation, that is not possible. Therefore you can concen... Sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā, by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everyone is worshiped. You have no more obligation.

*Actually, you have got obligation, so many obligation. All the demigods, they are supplying different energies, and we are maintained by that energy. Every part of our body is controlled by some particular demigod. Even the eyelids, the twinkling of the eyelids, that is also being controlled. We are supremely under control. So therefore we have got certain obligation. Just like we are controlled by the government. So we have got some obligation also, to pay tax to the government, the income tax. So similarly, we have got obligation to the devatās, the demigods, the ṛṣis, the saintly sages, because we are receiving knowledge from them. Just like Vyāsadeva. He has given us this Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. We are reading. We are getting knowledge, perfect knowledge. Then we are obliged to our surrounding living entities, neighbors, countrymen, and others. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta, the animals also. We are taking service from the animals. The cow is giving milk. The camel is carrying our load. The ass is carrying our load. So many animals... Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇām, general, people in general, we are obliged. So obligations, there are so many. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝṇām [SB 11.5.41]. Pitṛs, our forefathers, the dynasty or the family in which we have taken birth.

*So Vedic injunction is that we are obliged to so many living entities, and we have to satisfy them. Just like you are obliged to the government for supplying so many amenities, and you have to pay tax just to fulfill your obligation. If you don't pay tax, then you are liable to criminality. Similarly, we are receiving so many benefits from the Indra, Candra. We are getting rains from Indra, the moonshine from the Candra or the moon*-god, and the sunshine from the sun-god. These are essential things, heat and light. So we are obliged, certainly. But if you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, then you are free from all obligation. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. If you don't pay tax, then you are liable to be punished. That is pāpa. Similarly, we are obliged to so many living entities, demigods, saintly persons. Certainly we are obliged. We are receiving so much benefit from them. But if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa... Śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ gato mukundam. Śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam. Giving aside all other duties, if we simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then we are no more obliged. Nāyaṁ kiṅkaro na ca ṛṇī ca rājan. We are indebted, and we must give service to all of them, but if you surrender to Mukunda...

*devarṣi*-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝṇāṁ

na kiṅkaro nāyam ṛṇī ca rājan

sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ

gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam

[SB 11.5.41]



We have got so many obligations, but if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa...



*Kṛṣṇa's another name is Mukunda. Gato mukundam, śaraṇam, parihṛtya kartam, gataḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ mukundam. Mukunda... Muk means mukti, liberation, ānanda. After liberation, you become... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That original ānanda, your feature of jubilation... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. We are, by nature, ānandamaya. Not only Kṛṣṇa, God, but we, being part and parcel... The ānanda is not self-centered. Kṛṣṇa, when He takes ānanda, hlādinī-śakti, when He dances with the gopīs, when He plays with the cowherd boys, when He plays as a child of Yaśodāmāyi, and in every way Kṛṣṇa is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. So to take this ānanda, to enjoy this ānanda, He has expanded Himself in so many forms. The svāṁśa, or the incarnation, and the vibhinnāṁśa, we are, jīvas. So to become really ānandamaya, Kṛṣṇa has-ekaṁ bahu syām*-He has become many. So don't try to close up this business, "One." That is not very good intelligence. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they want to become one. "One" means you agree to the Supreme. That is oneness. Just like we are conducting this international society. We have got many workers, many disciples, but we are one. "One" means they are carrying their spiritual master's order. Therefore they are one. "One" means one is agreement, not that they have become amalgamated, no more individuality. Individuality is there always, but they are one, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's devotees. The devotees are simply trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is trying to maintain His devotees. This is oneness, not that we lose our individuality.

*Individual... Without individuality, there is no ānanda. If we are sitting together, the oneness is the process of service, that's all. But there are joking. They are cutting jokes. There are some varieties of food. That is ānanda. Varieties are there. That is ānanda. But they are for one purpose: satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness, not that we have become amalgamated. Amalgamation... We are amalgamated in one purpose, but not that the... It cannot be, because we are separated energy eternally. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7], sanātana. Sanātana means eternal. It is not that by chance we have become separated individuals. No. This word is used, sanātana. Sanātana means eternal. Eternally we are separated energy, and that is the beginning of Saṅkarṣaṇa. Saṅkarṣaṇaḥ kāraṇa-toya-śāyī. That Saṅkarṣaṇa, before this material creation, He lies down in the Kāraṇa Ocean, kāraṇa-toya-śāyī. Then... Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. He is lying in the Kāraṇa Ocean in the sleeping mood, and then, from His breathing, innumerable universes are coming out. That is the origin of material creation. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48].

*So from spiritual existence, how material existence come into being, that is being explained in the Sāṅkhya philosophy of Kapiladeva. So saṅkarṣaṇa-rūpaṁ puruṣam. Everywhere the puruṣa, person, puruṣa, or the enjoyer. Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ puruṣam. Lord is puruṣa, a personality. He is not impersonal. His energies are prakṛtis. So prakṛti-puruṣa is there. That is the spiritual world. That is also parā-prakṛti, and this material world is aparā-prakṛti. But the puruṣa is always there. Puruṣa is always puruṣa. And we are marginal prakṛti. We are also prakṛti. So ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa. So only one puruṣa, īśvara, enjoyer, controller, is Kṛṣṇa. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. All others, even incarnations, even demigods, even we are*-we are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. And what to speak of ourself, even the expansion of Kṛṣṇa, viṣṇu-tattva, They are also serving Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so exalted. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. Even the incarnation Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, demigods, and others-nobody is greater than Kṛṣṇa. Asamordhva, asama, nobody is equal to Him; *nobody is greater than Him. Everyone is lower than Him. Therefore He is described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta,

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya

yāre yaiche nācāya, se taiche kare nṛtya

[Cc. Ādi 5.142]



*By the desire of Kṛṣṇa we are doing different parts, but Kṛṣṇa is the original master, and He is also origin of the Saṅkarṣaṇa. And Saṅkarṣaṇa origin is of the puruṣa*-avatāra, Mahā-Viṣṇu. And Mahā-Viṣṇu is the avatāra, is the origin, of these universes. In this way, if you try to find out the original cause, the cause of all causes, then you come to Kṛṣṇa: sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], cause of all causes.



That's all right if you want to read next verse. Time?

*Nitāi: Twenty*-five to five.



Prabhupāda: No, that's all right, finished. (end)





750103SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.26

-

Bombay, January 3, 1975



Nitāi: "This false ego is characterized as the doer, as an instrument and as an effect. It is further characterized as serene, active or dull according to how it is influenced by the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance."



Prabhupāda:



kartṛtvaṁ karaṇatvaṁ ca

kāryatvaṁ ceti lakṣaṇam

*śānta*-ghora-vimūḍhatvam

iti vā syād ahaṅkṛteḥ

[SB 3.26.26]



So last night we discussed Saṅkarṣaṇa. Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha. Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha. Four expansion are there for taking charge of four kinds of different activities. So this false ego and the material world, "I am this body," they are also divided into three, śānta, ghora, and mūḍhatvam, according to the modes of material nature. Śānta means sober, serene. Persons who are in the modes of goodness, for them, this material world is manifest in the matter of its constituency. And those who are in modes of goodness, they can see things as they are. And the ghora, those who are in the modes of passion, they are unnecessarily going on, making plan and full of activities without any aim of life. And mūḍhatvam, that is like animal, do not know what is the aim of life, what for he is working, what is the value of life, nothing of the sort.



*So this false ego, "I am this material body. I belong to this material world, I belong to this community, sect, or nation," so many, they are all based on ahaṅkāra. Ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. Actually, every one of us who are in this material world, they are, we are all under the full control of this illusory energy and working differently according to the influence of the different modes of material nature. I am not real kartā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. I am under the influence of different guṇas, and still, falsely, I am thinking that "I am the doer. I have got the capacity of acting. And the effect, whatever I have produced, it is due to my labor." This is called illusion, moha. Mohaḥ ayam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This conception of life is moha. Moha, delusion or illusion, just like a person in feverish convulsion is lying unconscious, thinking something else. This is our position. Moho 'yam. So our real business is how to get out of this moha.

*So Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, They are controlling by different senses and the sense controller, different demigod. It is a very complicated situation, but we can get out of it by controlling the senses. That is also very difficult. At the present moment, especially in the Kali*-yuga, that is also very difficult. The easiest way, as suggested by śāstras and great personality, is bhaja vāsudevam. Yat-pāda-paṅkaja-palāśa-vilāsa-bhaktyā karmāśayaṁ grathitam udgrathayanti santaḥ.

*yat*-pāda-paṅkaja-palāśa-vilāsa-bhaktyā

karmāśayaṁ grathitam udgrathayanti santaḥ

*tadvan na rikta*-matayo yatayo 'pi ruddha-

*sroto*-gaṇās tam araṇaṁ bhaja vāsudevam



*Karmāśayam, this false ego*-we are creating different hopes of activity: "I shall do this. I shall do that." Grathitam, they are very deep-rooted, grathitam. So we have to pluck out this karmāśayam, the root of karma. Kūṭa-stha, then phalonmukha, and phala-prāpti. There are three stages, karmāśayam: kūṭa-stha, in the seed form, kūṭa-stha; then phalonmukham, sprouting; *then prāpta, prārabdha. In the beginning it is aprārabdha, not yet manifest, and prārabdha means manifest. The same example, as we have given several times, infection. We have infect... Suppose I have infected some chronic disease or infectious disease. It is not yet manifest, but it is kūṭa*-stha. It is... In the seed form there is. Then, all of a sudden, we get some feverish condition. That is called phalonmukha. And when it is high fever and quite manifest, the delusion and so many other things, that is called prārabdha.



*So we are all undergoing prārabdha*-phalam, manifest phala, for our past deeds. So they are very deep-rooted. It is very difficult to uproot them. But there is one process. That is recommended: bhaja vāsudevam. Bhaja... The others... There are many yogis, jñānīs, they are trying to get out of the situation, kūṭa-stha, phalonmukha, prārabdha situation of our life. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that the devotees, they can very easily uproot the causes of our material miserable condition of life. Yat-pāda-paṅkaja-palāśa-vilāsa-bhaktyā. Vilāsa. Vilāsa means enjoying, and bhaktyā means devotees. They are always attached to the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. The devotees are always engaged, they are always attached, padāravindayoḥ. Aravinda, lotus flower and the lotus feet. So devotees, they are concerned, always seeing the lotus feet of the Lord. They do not try to see even the face. Beginning with the lotus feet. The devotee begins offering tulasī leaves with sandalwood pulp and offering to the lotus feet of the Lord. That is their vilāsa, enjoyment. Yad-pāda-paṅkaja-palāśa-vilāsa. They enjoy. That is transcendental bliss, offering a little sandalwood pulp and tulasī leaves on the lotus feet of the Lord. Yat-pāda-palāśa-vilāsa...paṅkaja-palāśa-vilāsa, vilāsa. That is their vilāsa.

*Vilāsa means enjoyment. Bhoga*-vilāsa. Devotees, they have no bhoga. They have vilāsa, enjoyment. And indirectly, this is also bhoga, transcendental bliss, ecstasy. Sometimes they are crying. Sometimes they are shivering. Sometimes they are laughing. There are eight kinds of sāttvika transformation. So when one is completely pure devotee, these symptoms are visible. That is called vilāsa, enjoyment. Yat-pāda-paṅkaja-palāśa-vilāsa-bhaktyā karmāśayam. When one is engaged in that vilāsa, enjoyment, spiritual blissful life, then the root cause of karma becomes vanished. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said. They are no more interested with the attraction of fruitive activities. Karmāśayaṁ grathitam, very deep-rooted. Yat-pāda-paṅkaja-palāśa-vilāsa-bhaktyā karmāśayaṁ grathitam udgrathayanti. Very easily they can uproot. Tadvan na rikta-matayaḥ. Rikta-matayaḥ, those who are attached to live in the forest, in the mountain, in the cave, alone in a secluded place, and with great endeavor trying to stop the agitation of the senses... Tadvan na rikta-matayo yatayo 'pi ruddha-sroto-gaṇāḥ. Ruddha means controlled. The yogis especially, they do that. And jñānīs also, they read philosophy, discuss philosophy. The yogis control the senses. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. In this way they are trying to get out of this chain of fruitive activities. Karmāśayaṁ grathitam.

*But devotees, being attracted to the flavor of the lotus flower of Kṛṣṇa's feet, lotus flower... Kṛṣṇa, His face is called also lotus*-eyed, His navel is called padma-nābha, His feet is called lotus feet, pāda-padma, and His garland is also padma. He is very much fond of padma. So when a devotee is attached to the lotus flower of Kṛṣṇa's feet, automatically they forget the all such material activities. They haven't got to endeavor separately. The jñānīs and the yogis, they are trying to, by their endeavor, by their different endeavors, they are trying to get out of this entanglement, but the devotees, simply by engaging himself in the vāsudeva-bhakti, vāsudeva-parāyaṇa, simply by bhakti, they come out of the entanglement without any difficulty. That is stated in this verse. Tadvan na rikta-matayo yatayo 'pi ruddha-sroto-gaṇās tam araṇam. Sroto-gaṇās tam, stop functioning, they cannot do so nicely.

Therefore araṇaṁ bhaja vāsudevam. Vāsudeva is the ultimate araṇam, ultimate shelter. Bhaja vāsudevam. In other place also, it is said,

vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*Janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. One cannot understand what is the cause of a vāsudeva-bhakta to become so much renounced. Just like in India these young men from America and Europe... They are surprised, "How they have become so much aloof from material activities?" It is surprising. That is... It is not surprising, because bhaja vāsudevam: they have taken to the shelter of Vāsudeva. If you do also, you shall become. But we are not inclined. In India, "Oh, Vāsudeva, we have... We know everything of Vāsudeva. Hare Kṛṣṇa, oh, this is... What you can teach? We know everything." This is the Indian disease. Because familiarity breeds contempt. Because Indians are familiar with the name of Vāsudeva, with the name of Hare Kṛṣṇa, they think... Just like in European and American cities these boys and girls, they go for saṅkīrtana, and the Indian people, they say, "Oh, we know everything about it. We have now come here to learn how to eat meat, how to drink wine." You see? This is the condition. Bhaja vāsudevam*-this is not very much appealing. But this is the only way to become out of entanglement. Otherwise, this śānta-ghora-vimūḍhatvam iti vā syād ahaṅkṛteḥ. We shall always remain in this false ego that "I am this body. I am of this material world," no information of the spiritual world.



*Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They have no information. They do not know the svārtha-gatim. Everyone is declaring, "I have my self-interest." But they do not know what is self-interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Durāśā, the hope which will never be fulfilled. What is that hope? They are trying to adjust this material world to become happy. This is durāśā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Andha, and the leaders, they are also leading in that way. "Give up this Vedic culture. Throw away." The leaders say openly that "Throw away your śāstras in the water. No more śāstra. Now you take to industry, technology, if you want to become happy just like the Americans, like the Europeans." So the leaders, such leaders, have been described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, andha. Andha means blind. They do not know how to lead people, what is the aim of life. The aim of life is not to understand or learn some technical knowledge by which we can make some bodily comforts. That is not aim of life. The aim of life is different. We are part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Now we are separated. Not separated; just like a criminal is not separated from the state. He is in the state, but in a different condition. Similarly, we cannot be separated from God. That is not possible. We are part and parcel of God, but we can be separated by diseased condition. Just like my finger cannot be separated, or can be separated, but in the diseased condition it cannot work. It cannot work in its original, constitutional position. Similarly, due to our this material disease, we cannot properly serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead, our, the whole. We are part, and He is the whole. The complete. We are not... Some way or other we are detached. So we cannot be separated. But under certain conditions it appears that we are separated. This is forgetfulness, more or less.

*So we have to revive this old consti... That is the whole subject matter of the Sāṅkhya philosophy, Kapiladeva, how we are becoming degraded from the original state of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So our only business is how to revive again. That revival is possible only by this process, bhaja vāsudevam. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Sudurlabhaḥ mahātmā, not ordinary mahātmā. Mahātmā, mahān ātmā yasya iti mahātmā. Not cripple ātmā: "This is my community. This is my nation. This is my family. I have to maintain it. I have to make them..." This is not mahātmā. Mahātmā means one who is broader, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarva*-yoniṣu. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father of all living entities, and they are suffering. Tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "I am simply anxious, perplexed only for these persons who are bereft of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I am thinking of them." This man is mahātmā. He is thinking of all living entities who are bereft of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and making plan how to again take them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Because this is the cause of all unhappiness, they are suffering, and they are making plan. Māyā*-sukhāya. Māyā-sukhāya means the happiness which has no standing, false, illusory. For this purpose, bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, big, big adventure, big, big things, they are contemplating, planning. That is called ghora, ghora-rūpa. Here it is called ghora. Śānta-ghora. If you go to some industrial place in a factory, iron factory like Tata's, you will see how they are engaged in ghora activities, horrible activities-after all, you have to eat something-but they have planned a ghora activity, very fierceful, ugra-karma. By nature's way, Kṛṣṇa has given us everything. You can simply work little. You get food grains. Kṛṣṇa says like that. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You open big, big fierceful, horrible industries." You will never find in Bhagavad-gītā. For your livelihood, Kṛṣṇa says very simple method. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. Annād. Anna, you produce anna. Why you are planning big, big industries? The oil will come from America through the channel, and the Arabia will refuse to supply oil. There will be power problem, so many things, one after another, one after another. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that do all these things, ghora. No. He says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: "You just produce food grain." And bhavanti bhūtāni. Bhūtāni means all living entities, they will be stout and strong by eating. What you want more? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. And if there is sufficient rain, then automatically, then it will be very easy to grow food grains. Parjanyād anna... If there is no parjanya, rain, then your so-called tractor will not help you, or knowledge, agricultural knowledge, will not help you. You will have to depend on Kṛṣṇa for rains. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ [Bg. 3.14]. If you perform yajña, then there will be regular rainfalls.

*In the Kali*-yuga there is no yajña. Therefore there is anāvṛṣṭi, anāvṛṣṭi. The Kali-yuga people will forget performing yajña. They will be busy in ghora-rūpa activities, horrible and fierceful activities, not yajña. They will neglect yajña. So then how your these bolts and nuts and rubber tires will help you? Therefore there is scarcity of anna. That will increase more and more. It will so increase that now you are getting anna by paying high price, but time will come when even if you are prepared to pay price, there will be no more anna. That time is coming. Naturally, what people will eat? They will eat māṁsa and roots and seeds. No milk. No sugar. No wheat. These things will be stopped. As we are becoming entangled in ghora-rūpa activities or mūḍha activities, then the more we shall be entangled with sufferings of material existence. They do not know what is the actually interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31].

*So therefore this planning, real planning, is this varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama means a regulative, regulative life. So we have come to this world. There will be no difficulty for our maintenance. Peacefully let us live and save time for spiritual consciousness, for advancement of. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. We have to rectify, purify our existence. This present existence is not purified. Otherwise, why we are accepting death? Because the existence is not purified. But we don't care for it. We are so dull, mūḍha. Mūḍhatvam. Mūḍhatvam. There are so many big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know the first lessons of Bhagavad-gītā, first lessons of Bhagavad-gītā. First lesson of Bhagavad-gītā is there. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. Who is thinking of this, that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], if after the destruction of this body, I am not annihilated*-that is a fact-but who is making research about it? And still, they are big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, and they do not know even the ABCD of Bhagavad-gītā.

*This is the first lesson of Bhagavad*-gītā:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, na hanyate hanya... They do... These things do not strike even their dull brain, that "If ātmā... I am ātmā. I am the soul. I do not die even after the annihilation of this body. But that means I will have to accept another body. But is this very good job? Why not seek after our original position, when there is no more change of body?" This question does not arise even. But it is very easy. For that reason, Bhagavad*-gītā is there. Everyone can avoid this birth and death. That is the business of human life, how to stop... Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya. Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhaḥ [Bg. 2.56]. Everything is there. This is the aim of life. But not... We are under this false ego, "I am this body." And some of us in the modes of goodness... That is also another kind of bondage: "I am brāhmaṇa. I am very learned scholar." But... That's all right, but still you have to go further, above the brahminical stage, not simply become proud of having nice birth, full of knowledge and learning. That is not sufficient. The learning should be perfect. What is that perfect learning? That vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. If you are actually learned, if you are proud of becoming vedāntī or knowledge in Vedānta, then you must be aware of Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Otherwise śrama eva hi kevalam.



dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*Either you become śānta or ghora or mūḍha, three kinds of position in this material world... śānta. Śānta means in the brahminical qualification, and ghora means activities, material activities, fruitive activities, and mūḍha, just like animal, neither śānta nor ghora, simply animal. Udaram bharitaḥ. Svārtham udaraṁ bharitaḥ. Svārtham, interest, means if one somehow or other fulfills his belly, then he thinks, "Now all my mission is fulfilled." This is called mūḍhatvam. Svārtham udaraṁ bharitaḥ. Dākṣyaṁ kuṭumba*-bharaṇam. Generally in this age, people will be interested to fulfill his own belly. Because that is also very difficult task nowadays. To get sufficient food daily, that is also a problem. And if one can maintain his family in these hard days-family means husband, wife, and a few children-then dākṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam, then he is just like Mahārāja Dakṣa. Dakṣa, dakṣa means very expert. Those who are maintaining big family, working very nicely, many business, they are called dakṣa. So in the Kali-yuga, if one can maintain a family, small family, then he will be considered dakṣa. Dākṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam. Otherwise, if one can fulfill his belly only, his all interest is fulfilled. This will be the condition of this age. That means mūḍhatvam, mostly mūḍhatvam. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31].



*So this is the position, mūḍhatvam, at least in this age. Rajas tamas. Mūḍhatvam, some of them are busy in ghora activities, and some of them are mūḍhas. Generally, they are mūḍhas. The so*-called active persons, they are also mūḍhas. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So unless you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, unless you become a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then our life is unsuccessful. It has begun since we have come to this material world. Under different influence, we have come to this condition of śānta, ghora, mūḍha. But we have to become above this condition-even above this śānta condition. This conception that "I have become now brahminically qualified. I have got knowledge. I can see things," jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, that is not sufficient. You have to stop your birth and death. This process you have to stop. Then your life is successful.

*And that can be easily done if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Bhaja vāsudevam. You have to become devotee of Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ [SB 1.2.7]. You have to take the shelter of bhakti-yoga, Vāsudeva. Then your life will be successful. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā [Bg. 7.19]. You have to become sudurlabhaḥ mahātmā, not cheap mahātmā. A cheap mahātmā will not help you. You have to become real mahātmā. What is real mahātmā? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ [Bg. 9.13]. That is mahātmā.

Thank you very much. (end)



750104SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.27

-

Bombay, January 4, 1975



Nitāi: "From the false ego of goodness, another transformation takes place. From this evolves the mind, whose thoughts and reflections give rise to desire."



Prabhupāda:



vaikārikād vikurvāṇān

*manas*-tattvam ajāyata

*yat*-saṅkalpa-vikalpābhyāṁ

*vartate kāma*-sambhavaḥ

[SB 3.26.27]



*So this mind is material because it is the product of transformation of the modes of goodness. Then, gradually, being contaminated by different kinds of material desires, it becomes degraded. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. When it is deteriorated, then, from the standard of goodness, it comes to rajo-guṇa. And rajo-guṇa means lusty desires, unending desires. And if desires are not fulfilled, then there is krodha, anger. In this way, kāma krodha lobha moha mātsarya-everything becomes very prominent, and we become servant of these propensities, kāma, krodha, moha, mātsarya, mada, lobha. This is called illusion, gradually degraded mind. And the business of the mind is saṅkalpa and vikalpa. Saṅkalpa means decide to do something, and vikalpa means again to reject it. That is the business of mind. Everyone desires the peacefulness of mind, but the material mind*-the nature is saṅkalpa and vikalpa, restlessness. You cannot fix up.



*So if you can control the senses by the yogic, mystic yogic process, this mechanical endeavor, how to control the mind, then you can again be placed in the original spiritual status. That is the yoga system. The yoga system is recommended to persons whose mind is very restless. Everyone's mind is restless-not a particular man mind is restless. Everyone's. But it is very difficult, also, to bring the mind into peaceful status. So long the desires are there, it is not possible to bring the mind in complete peace and tranquillity. It is not possible because the saṅkalpa-vikalpa... Vartate-kāma-sambhavaḥ. So long there is desire, so it is not possible to bring the mind under control. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, that even the pious actors, those who are acting very piously... Those who are acting impiously, sinfully, there is no question of peace of the mind. That is not possible. Even those who are acting very piously, that is also not possible. You cannot control even the mind in that way. Then those who are desiring to stop these material activities completely, pious or impious, they also cannot control the mind. And then the yogis... The first group, who are interested in pious activities, they are karmīs. And those who are neither interested in pious activities or impious activities*-they want to stop all kinds of activities... Just like the Buddha philosophy says, nirvāṇa: "Stop the activities of the mind or desires." On that status also, it is not possible to control the mind, meditation. And... These mukti-kāmī. And then siddhi-kāmī, the yogis, they also cannot control the mind, what to speak of ordinary man who are neither interested in pious activities or in mukti or yogic perfection?

*So when Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna to practice yoga for controlling the mind in the Sixth Chapter of the Bhagavad*-gītā, Arjuna refused. Arjuna said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are advising me to control the mind by practicing yoga, but I have no such opportunity because I am a family man. I am also politician, royal family. I have to see things, administration of the kingdom. And besides that, in family life I have to seek for my material interest. So how it is possible for me to control the mind?" So he flatly said,

cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa

pramāthi balavad dṛḍham

tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye

vāyor iva suduṣkaram

[Bg. 6.34]



"My dear Kṛṣṇa, I think the mind is very, very restless." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa. Pramāthi: "as madman." As madman is always restless... "And very strong. I want to control the mind, but it does not come under control. So this is the position. Therefore, You are asking me to control the mind..." Tasya ahaṁ nigrahaṁ manye vāyor iva suduṣkaram: "I think it is more difficult than controlling the wind." Suppose there is very strong wind, and if you want to stop it, you see, it is not possible. There is cyclone. Similarly, Arjuna has compared the mind with the speed of cyclone. How it is to be controlled? So completely denied. But Kṛṣṇa said, just to encourage Arjuna, that he should not be disappointed because he could not control the mind. But still, because his mind was always engaged in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he is the best of all the yogis.



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He encouraged Arjuna that "Don't be disappointed because your mind is always engaged in Me." Arjuna might be anything, but he was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. He was always associating with Kṛṣṇa. He did not know anything else, Kṛṣṇa. That is the position of first*-class yogi. Otherwise, if you try to control the mind from kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, that is not possible. You have to change the position of such activities.



*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura... Here it is said that kāma-sambhavaḥ. Kāma, kāma means desire. So mind is restless, always desiring something, desiring something. So the best policy to control the mind is to desire how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the best. Kāmaḥ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has said that you cannot be free from desire. That is not possible. This is useless attempt. They say that "You become desireless." No, that is not possible. How can I...? If I become desireless, I become dead. So long I am living entity, I must desire. I cannot check it. Therefore kāma means desire. So at the present moment, we are desiring how to become happy in this material world, how to acquire so much money, how to acquire this, how to acquire this, how to get this, how to get that. This is kāma. So this brain taxation, if you engage in Kṛṣṇa's service-how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to convince people about Kṛṣṇa, how to take them to the Kṛṣṇa's desire, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]*-and in this way, if you go on making plan for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then your mind is controlled.

*You cannot stop desire. That is not possible. The kāma-sambhavaḥ... Saṅkalpa-vikalpābhyāṁ vartate kāma-sambhavaḥ. This is the mind's position. I am desiring something, and if it is not very palatable, then I reject it. I accept another desire. This is. You cannot keep the mind vacant even for a single moment. Nobody has got this experience, that mind is vacant. If, by force, you are trying to do that, it is simply laboring. It is not possible. Just like to concentrate one's mind in the vacant... Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām [Bg. 12.5]. Kleśaḥ, kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām. Impersonal and void. If you want to engage your mind in the impersonality or voidness of variegatedness, it is simply very, very difficult. The best, easy way of controlling the mind... Because Kṛṣṇa has said that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā [Bg. 6.47], antar-ātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām. This is the way. Anyone who is making plan, the plan-making... Kāma-sambhavaḥ means plan-making. You see the whole world, the big, big politicians. In our government, central government, there is a planning commission. Perhaps every one of you know it, planning commission. From, for the last twenty years they are making simply plans, and no plan has become successful. Every plan (chuckling) is unsuccessful, and the result is eight rupees kilo rice, your staple food. The plan has come successfully to bring rice eight rupees per kilo. That is not possible. So long the, you are materially affected and making plan how to get out of it, the material nature is so strong that it will baffle all your plans, and therefore you will have to remain perpetually restless. One plan you make, and it is baffled by the material nature, stringent laws of nature. And at last, making plan, making plan, making plan*-one day the time comes and immediately orders, "Please vacate your presidency, your prime ministership." Although I am trying to make plan, successful plans, up to the point of death... Pralayānta, pralayānta, asuric plan, up to the end of life... And then he entrusts. He says, "My dear son, my dear daughter, I could not fulfill this plan, so you do it. Now I hand it over to you." And the son also going on, making plan, plan, plan. It will never be fulfilled.

*That is the verdict of the śāstra. Durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā. It is impossible. Therefore this saṅkalpa-vikalpa, accepting some plan and rejecting again, this is going on perpetually. It is never fulfilled; *neither it will be fulfilled at any time. And for making this plan, saṅkalpa*-vikalpa, perpetually I am giving up one kind of body; I am accepting another body. I am giving up the residence of one planet. I am going to the heavenly planet:

*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*Plan in the modes of goodness and passion, in ignorance. So different plans, different kinds of body, different residential quarter in different planets, different... You see? We have got experience even in Bombay. If one body is living here in Bombay for fifty years, how many plans he has had made and how many apartments he has changed and still, the plan*-making business is going on. Everyone has got this experience. It is not very difficult.



*So as it is going on in this life, in this span of life, similarly, it is going on life after life, this plan-making business. So the intelligent persons, they should understand that how to stop this unlimited plan*-making business. Still there is no solution. That is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is life, athāto brahma-jijñāsā, when one is inquisitive to know the broader plan, Brahman plan. Brahman means the biggest, bṛhatva, the biggest. The biggest plan, if anyone wants to understand, becomes inquisitive, then his life, real life, begins. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So wherefrom brahma-jijñāsā? Brahma-jijñāsā... This ordinary jijñāsā, inquiry, "What is the price of rice today?" or "What is the situation of strike? What is the situation of this, that?" that you can ask from the newspaper or from anyone, friend. But so far brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry of Brahman, then where shall you inquire? Will you go to the exchange market or in the other market? No. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Sa gurum evābhigacchet. That is the injunction of the Vedas, that you must find out guru. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Guru means brahma-niṣṭham. Brahma-niṣṭham. That is the guru's qualification. And śrotriyam, one who has heard from the disciplic succession, he is guru, not anyone, magician, no. Guru, as Kṛṣṇa said...

*Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. He is Brahmā's guru. Then who can be better guru than Kṛṣṇa? Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. He instructed Brahmā. Brahmā instructed Nārada, and Nārada instructed Vyāsadeva, and Vyāsadeva has given us so many literatures. This is called paramparā system. Vedavyāsa. Vyāsadeva has given us four Vedas: Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva; *then explained them in the 108 Purāṇas. Then again, he has summarized them in Vedānta*-sūtra. Then again, he has explained the Vedānta-sūtra by Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Brahma-sūtra-bhāṣya. In every chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you will find this statement by Vyāsadeva, brahma-sūtra-bhāṣya. Brahma-sūtra-bhāṣya is not that Śaṅkara's bhāṣya, Śārīraka-bhāṣya. That is artificial. Here the brahma-sūtra-bhāṣya. Brahma-sūtra is written by Vyāsadeva, and because he knew that in future so many rascals will misinterpret this Brahma-sūtra, therefore he compiled personally the bhāṣya of Brahma-sūtra. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇāṁ vedārtha-paribṛṁhitam **: "The meaning of the Vedas is completely described, and it is the original comment on Brahma-sūtra." Therefore you will see Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins from the words of Brahma-sūtra: jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. As it is said in the Brahma-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā, the Bhāgavata says that jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā: "The living entity's only business is to inquire about the Absolute Truth." Na yaś ceha karmabhiḥ: "No other business." Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41].

*So dharma... generally, people think that "Becoming religious, we shall be economically developed." Dharma artha. "We shall get artha. We shall be..." That is... Automatically it comes. If you are actually following the religious principle, artha will come. There is no doubt. And... But we do not know what is dharma. That is the difficulty. That you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa, athāto brahma jijñāsā, from the guru. And what guru says, Kṛṣṇa says? sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. Anything else, that is all cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra. Kaitava. Kaitava means cheating. And Śrīdhara Svāmī says, "This mokṣa is also another cheating." Mokṣa is another... "I shall make me void. I shall finish my existence, individual existence. I shall merge into the existence of the Absolute," this conception, mokṣa, mukti, is also commented by Śrīdhara Svāmī, "This is another cheating, another cheating." Because there cannot be mokṣa. You cannot become one with the Supreme. How you can be? As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātanaḥ. You are part and parcel of the Supreme. How you can become one? So this kind of attempt is also cheating. You cannot become one. Because eternally, sanātana, eternally, you are different. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "Myself, My dear Arjuna, yourself, and all the soldiers and kings who have assembled in this battlefield, they were the same individual in the past, and they are individual now, and they will continue to remain individual." So where there is oneness? In the past, present, future the individuality is there.

*So it is a concoction, to finish the individuality. It is called spiritual suicide. Just like if a man becomes disappointed and he cuts his own throat or hangs him, some way or other, eats some poison, to finish, does it mean that he is finished? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. He is rascal. He does not know. By finishing this body he is finished*-no, that is not possible. The result is, because he violated the rules of nature, he becomes a ghost. That is his life. One who commits suicide, he becomes a ghost. Ghost means he does not get this material body. He remains in the subtle body, mind, intelligence. Therefore ghost can go because he is in the mind. Mind speed is very strong. If you have got this material body, you cannot go immediately hundred miles off. But if you are in the mental body, you can go immediately, thousand miles immediately, within a second. So the ghost, they can play something wonderful because... But they are not happy because they have no gross body. They want to enjoy. He's materialist. He has committed suicide for some material want. So he is want of material..., fulfilling material desire. He could not fulfill in this body; therefore commits suicide, but the desire is there. The desire is there, and he cannot fulfill it. He becomes perplexed. Therefore the ghost create disturbance sometimes.

*So in this way desires cannot be finished. That is not possible. Kāma*-sambhavaḥ. It is not possible. Therefore the best thing is that fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be happy, the mind always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business, planning how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That you are, require. That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa wants everyone to surrender unto Him. When Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], He does not say only to Arjuna; *He says to everyone. So that is Kṛṣṇa's desire, and if you want to serve Kṛṣṇa, to fulfill His desire, that means you canvass everyone to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is preaching. Kṛṣṇa wants it. It is declared. So your business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. So do it. Why don't you do it? Why you are aspiring after mukti, siddhi, and bhukti? These are all personal. Anyone who is executing pious activities, acquiring puṇya, what is the result? Puṇya means he will go to the heavenly planet. That is sense gratification. Heavenly planet, you go to the heavenly planet. You live for many thousands of years, many millions of years, and get the association of apsarās, very nice standard of life, and so on, so on. These are all personal comforts, bhukti, a better standard of material enjoyment. To go to the heavenly planet means a better standard of, thousand times better, millions times better than this planet. As you go up and up... This is Bhūrloka. Then Bhuvarloka, Svarloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapoloka, Brahmaloka, so many lokas. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. If you increase your modes of goodness, then you gradually promoted more and more comfortable situation. If you go to the Siddhaloka, immediately you become a perfect yogi. The yogis are trying to get some power, material power, aṇimā laghimā prāpti-siddhi. If one gets this prāpti... Prāpti-siddhi means whatever he likes he can get immediately. That is cal... And people become after him, "Oh, here is God. He is creating rasagullā." (laughter) You see? Yes. One yogi in Benares, he... Anyone who would come to him, immediately he will present two rasagullā in a pot. He will give, and immediately rasagullā will be there. And big, big men, they become surprised, "Oh, here is God." He does not say, "What is the price of these rasagullā?" Say, four annas? So by jugglery of four annas, he became God. This is going on. This rascaldom is going on. By jugglery of four annas, eight annas, or four hundred or four thousand, if one can make some jugglery, then he becomes God. This is foolishness. This is going on.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that this kind of yoga practice is simply cheating. The first-class yogi is he... Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. One who is thinking of always Kṛṣṇa, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," he is first-class yogi. And they are all cheaters. Some foolish people are cheated by this yogic jugglery and he gets some position, some material position. So material positions there are many. Even a politician, if he talks, many millions people gather to hear him. But what is the benefit of such hearing? First of all we have to see what is the benefit. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. If you are interested of hearing lectures, then śāstra says that "Hear of Viṣṇu," not of any rascal. Hear from Vaiṣṇava. Then you will be benefited. Otherwise you will not be benefited. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt. This is the injunction of the śāstra. One who is avaiṣṇava, he cannot become guru. Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. A brāhmaṇa, and he is very expert in ṣaṭ-karma... Ṣaṭ-karma means six kinds of occupational duties. What is that? Paṭhana. A brāhmaṇa must be very, very learned scholar by reading Vedic literature, and pāṭhana, and teach others of the Vedic literature. Therefore it was the custom of the brāhmaṇas-they would not accept anyone's service. They will sit down anywhere and open a school for teaching Vedic literature. Paṭhana pāṭhana. He will personally become learned, and he will teach others. And the students, they will go from door to..., brahmacārī, door to door for begging, "Mother, give me some alms," and they will give because their students are there in the gurukula or catuṣpāṭhī. So whatever they will bring, that will be cooked and offered to Kṛṣṇa, and the prasādam will be distributed amongst themselves. This was the process, not twenty rupees' fee and give some bribe to enter into the school, and that is also all rascal education, no. First-class education, without any fee, from the realized soul*-that was educational system, varṇāśrama-dharma.

*So we have to find out such guru, Vaiṣṇava. Śāstra says, ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. Not only expert in six kinds of occupational..., paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigraha, but mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ: "Vedic mantra or tantra-everything he knows perfectly well." Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra..., avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt: "But if he has got one disqualification*-he is faithless; he does not believe in the Supreme Personality of Godhead or Viṣṇu; *he is believer in other demigods and other process, even Lord Śiva or Lord Brahmā, the best of all the demigods*-then he becomes avaiṣṇava." Just like Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa was very learned scholar, son of a brāhmaṇa, very good scholar, and economically developed, but only fault was avaiṣṇava: he did not care for Rāma. So he is designated as rākṣasa. So avaiṣṇava, who is not devotee of Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, gurur na sa syāt, he cannot become guru. That is not possible. And vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ. Śva-paca. Śva-paca means the dog-eaters, the lowest of the mankind, dog-eaters, caṇḍāla. Caṇḍālo 'pi dvija-śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ. If somehow or other he has become Vaiṣṇava, then he can become guru, not this brāhmaṇa, ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. Because that one disqualification is there, that he is not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot become guru. But a person born in the lowest of the human society, pāpa-yoni, which is called pāpa-yoni... Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who takes shelter of Me, even he belongs to the pāpa-yoni..." Pāpa-yoni means the caṇḍālas, less than the śūdras. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ... Again He mentions. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. So they are eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. There are so many instances. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpāḥ: [SB 2.4.18] "Lower than them, still more sinful," śudhyanti, "they can be purified," prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ, "if he becomes a Vaiṣṇava."

*So vaiṣṇave jāti*-buddhiḥ is nārakī-buddhiḥ. One should not consider a Vaiṣṇava, whether he is born of low family, he is not born of brāhmaṇa family. This kinds of consideration is nārakī-buddhi. So there are many instances. Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī says that avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. If a avaiṣṇava, if a Māyāvādī, he speaks about Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, one should not hear it. He should avoid it because it will create some misimpression. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden strongly, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] "If one hears from a Māyāvādī about Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then that person is doomed." So this is, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This injunction means one should approach a Vaiṣṇava to accept him as guru and then take lessons from him and make his life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750105SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.28

-

Bombay, January 5, 1975



Prabhupāda:



yad vidur hy aniruddhākhyaṁ

hṛṣīkāṇām adhīśvaram

śāradendīvara-śyāmaṁ

saṁrādhyaṁ yogibhiḥ śanaiḥ

[SB 3.26.28]



*yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra*-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair

*vedaiḥ sāṅga*-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ

*dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino

*yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura*-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ

[SB 12.13.1]



*This is a mantra, Vedic mantra: "The Supreme Lord is worshiped by all the demigods." Yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra*-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ. Varuṇa, Indra, and other demigods, even Lord Śiva or Lord Brahmā... Śiva-viriñci-nutam: [SB 11.5.33] "He is worshiped by Śiva and Viriñci." Viriñci means Lord Brahmā. So the only Lord, master, is Kṛṣṇa. I have explained, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. Īśvara, the supreme īśvara, controller, is Kṛṣṇa. And He is worshiped by... Yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ. He is the objective of worshiping.



*So dhyānāvasthita*-manasā..., dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā yaṁ paśyanti yoginaḥ. Yogis, they are desirous of mystic power, eight kinds of mystic power. They also meditate on the Supreme Lord. And the feature of the Supreme Lord on which the yogis meditate by concentrating their mind is called Aniruddha. Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha..., Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, Pradyumna. So this is described. Aniruddha is the Deity of the mind, and mind is the central sense of all senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ [Bg. 3.42]. In the material conception of life the senses are very prominent. So long we are under the bodily concept of life, our objective is to satisfy the senses. But the master of the senses is the mind, and the controlling Deity of the mind is Aniruddha. Therefore God's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa. And bhakti means to serve Hṛṣīkeśa, because He is the proprietor of the senses.

*Here it is said, yad vidur hy aniruddhākhyaṁ hṛṣīkāṇām adhīśvaram. Hṛṣīka. Hṛṣīka means senses. And another name of God or Kṛṣṇa or Aniruddha is Hṛṣīkeśa. Senayor ubhayor madhye... The Hṛṣīkeśa name is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Hṛṣīkeśa means hṛṣīkāṇām adhīśvaram. So practically, the senses which you are using, the real proprietor is Aniruddha, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You can utilize the instrument. Just like you hire some instrument to use it for some purpose, but the instrument belongs to somebody else, similarly, our the instrument, the karaṇa, the means of working, or instrument, as you say*-the proprietor is Hṛṣīkeśa, or Aniruddha. So we are now utilizing instruments without fulfilling the desire of Aniruddha, or the Hṛṣīkeśa. That means we are using it for sense gratification unlawfully. Therefore we are becoming implicated in sinful activities. (aside:) Who is talking this side? Stop them. So, therefore, bhakti means that when you don't use the hṛṣīka, or the senses, for any other purpose than to serve the Hṛṣīkeśa, that is called bhakti. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hṛṣīkāṇām adhīśvaram.

Actually, the proprietor of the senses is Aniruddha, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His expansion.

*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā we understand that the Lord is one, but He can expand Himself into multiforms. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. This is... This expansion is going on from time immemorial. Still, the Lord is nava-yauvanam, very young, sixteen to twenty years old, that's all. Purāṇa. Although He is the ādi, origin of all living entities, still He is young. And although He has expanded Himself into multiforms, still He is one. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Advaita. Advaita is one, not that because He has expanded Himself into many forms, therefore He has got many, He has become many. No. He is one still. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. That is absolute knowledge, that the Supreme Lord, if He expands Himself into supreme for..., er, unlimited forms, unlimited supreme forms, still He remains supreme. It is not material; material is supreme. If you take one lakh of rupees, if you take one lakh of rupees, then it becomes zero. But in the spiritual world the Absolute means you take the Supreme, the Supreme may expand Himself into many millions of Supreme form; still, the original Supreme remains. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate. These things are spiritual understanding.



*So this Aniruddha is the objective of meditation for the yogis. Nowadays they have manufactured so many objective, but that is not authorized. The authorized is that you have to concentrate your mind upon the form of Viṣṇu known as Aniruddha. That is the real meditation. Viṣṇu has got many forms. "Many forms" means the Viṣṇu forms are all catur*-bhuja, four-handed, and the symbolic representation of each hand is śaṅkha-cakra-gadā-padma: the conchshell, the disc, śaṅkha-cakra, gadā, the club, and the lotus flower. Now the Lord is differently named... Ordinarily, there are twenty-four names. So those names are there according to the situation of the symbolic representation. It begins from the right lower hand, and then it comes to the left lower hand, this śaṅkha-cakra-gadā-padma, differently situated. Just like begin, śaṅkha, then cakra, then gadā, then padma. Then begins cakra, gadā, lotus flower, and conchshell. In this way there are different positions of the śaṅkha-cakra-gadā-padma, and according to that different position, the name is changed: Nṛsiṁha, Vāmana, Padmanābha, Nārāyaṇa, like that.

*So there are innumerable forms and innumerable names, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33], but they are all one. There is no difference, advaita. This is the conception of spiritual understanding, because these forms, each form, has got a separate planet. Just like here in this material world, each demigod has got a separate planet. The demigod Candradeva... He is also demigod. So he has got a separate planet which is called Candraloka. Similarly Sūryaloka, Varuṇaloka, Vāyuloka, Indraloka, many. There are hundreds and thousands of demigods, and they have got their different planets. Similarly, the Lord in the spiritual world has got multiforms, and the each and every form is the predominating Deity of the Vaikuṇṭha planets. The spiritual planets are called Vaikuṇṭha planets. The material planets, they are not Vaikuṇṭha; *they are kuṇṭha. Here, in these planets, anyone living, he is always full of anxiety, kuṇṭha. In the Vaikuṇṭha planets there is no such thing as anxiety. That is the difference between the spiritual and material planets. Vaikuṇṭha planets means without any anxiety. Here everyone is full of anxiety, whatever he may be. He may be Lord Brahmā or he may be Mr. Ant, small, very insignificant. Everyone is full of kuṇṭha. Sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām. Samudvigna, fully anxious, "What will happen next? What will happen next? How things will go on?" This anxiety. He may be very rich man or very poor man. The anxiety must be there. Why? Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt: [SB 7.5.5] "Because they have accepted this material body."

*So Aniruddha, Pradyumna, Saṅkarṣaṇa, or other Viṣṇu form, or the living entities who are living there in those Vaikuṇṭha planets, they have no anxiety. There is no anxiety, neither there is influence of this māyā, neither there are the activities of the three modes of material nature. That is called spiritual world, Vaikuṇṭhaloka. They are free. Neither there is birth, death, old age, and disease. These things are absent. Everyone is full of transcendental bliss. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature they are ānandamaya, always jolly. And here also, in this material world, when we become free from this material concept of life, bodily concept of life, when we are fully aware of the thing that "I am not this material body; *I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi," he also becomes jolly because he acquires the spiritual quality. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. That is the sign. Prasannātmā. Na śoc... Prasannātmā. What does it mean, prasannātmā? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: [Bg. 18.54] "There is no hankering, and there is no lamentation." Then it is possible to see everyone on the equal level. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

*This is the preliminary condition of becoming a devotee, when one has attained this stage, prasanna-manasaḥ. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ [SB 1.2.20]. This stage can be attained by bhakti-yoga, the simple method. Bhakti-yoga means hearing and chanting: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That's all. Sit down together, all the family members, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read some passages from Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is bhakti-yoga. If possible, install Deity, worship it properly. There is no need of going to cinema, restaurant, eating all nonsense. This will be automatically finished. Anartha. These are anartha, unwanted things. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. If you take to this devotional service, bhakti-yoga, the anarthas, unnecessarily nonsense things-smoking biḍi, cigarette, drinking tea, going to the cinema, restaurant, and so many other-they are not required. What is the necessity of these things? If you say there is some ānanda, that is not ānanda. Ānanda is here, to hear about the Supreme Lord. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]*-that is ānanda. This is not ānanda. This is false ānanda. But we are accustomed to this. That is our misfortune. Anartha. So (to) come to the bhakti platform, one has to become free form the anarthas. Otherwise bhakti will not be substantial. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Tato niṣṭhā. When anarthas are finished, no more attraction... Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. If one is really devotee, then he will be detached to the anarthas, unwanted things. That is the test of bhakti. And "I am devotee; also I am devotee of biḍi," that is not devotee. "I am smoking, also chanting." In the Bengal it is said, āmi dugha khai tamogha khai.(?) No, not like that.

So that is the test who is a devotee. Simply by advertising himself, advertisements will not do. How much you are freed from the anarthas. Viraktir anyatra syāt. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. The example is given: just like if you are hungry, you are hankering after food, but when sufficient food is supplied to you, then the next stage will be: "No, no, I don't want any more. That's all right." "No, no, take more." "No, no, no, no. I am not..." He is satisfied, fully satisfied. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja: he took advantage of bhakti for some material... Not Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja. I am sorry. So when actually saw Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, who came to satisfy him, being pleased upon his austerities, little boy of five years, at that time, when he saw Kṛṣṇa, he said, "No, no, I don't want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "Svāmin, my Lord, I am fully satisfied. I have no more demand."

*That is the bhakti stage*-no more demand. The karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis, they have got demand. They want something. The karmīs, they want promotion to the higher planets for sensual satisfaction, for higher standard of material living condition, karmīs. The more you are karmīs, you can live very high standard of life just like Europeans, Americans. They are big, big karmīs, big, big manufacture of machine, wonderful machine, and they get money-cost one dollar and they are charging five hundred dollars. You get money and good opportunity for sense gratification. So that is the idea of karmīs. They want higher standard of sense gratification, scientific method of sense gratification. They have got machine even for shaving, even for tooth brushing. So everything machine. The idea is sense gratification. This is karmī. And jñānīs, they have also demand: "I shall become one with God." Ekatvena. But the bhaktas, they don't want ekatvam. That is jñānī. And yogis, they want mystic powers. Because if they can manifest some mystic power, immediately so many foolish person will be followers, and they will get some material reputation, position. So there is demand. And when there will be no demand, that is bhakta stage. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "No more varam, Sir. I have taken much varam."

*What is that varam? Everything is supplied by Kṛṣṇa. Why the devotee should be anxious for varam, for benediction? Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānām. Those who are constantly engaged in the service of the Lord, all that is required by him, that is carried by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself to supply him. He says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. What you have got, He will give protection, and what you have not got, He will supply you*-for the devotees. The devotees do not want, but Kṛṣṇa... Just like a child, dependent on the parents. He does not want anything, but the parents are very much anxious, "What my child needs?" The bhakta, devotee, wants how to keep satisfied the Lord, how to keep Him in comfortable position. Just like here the devotees, they are always dressing and giving flower garland and sandalwood pulp and tulasī and cleansing the... Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. What is the idea? That Kṛṣṇa may sit down here very pleasingly. This is bhakta's activity. And Kṛṣṇa's anxiety is "How My devotees will remain without any want." This business is going on, without any difficulty. So the bhaktas, they will not want anything. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4].

*So the Aniruddha, He is the master of the senses, as it is stated here, hṛṣīkāṇām adhīśvaram, adhīśvaram, master, proprietor. So the common sense is that if my hand is the property of Kṛṣṇa, why it should be used for me? It should be used for Kṛṣṇa. This is good sense. Suppose something belongs to somebody else. If you use it for your purpose, that is illegal, not lawful. This is my watch. If you take away this watch and use for your purpose, then it is criminal. You cannot say the watch is being used either by him or by... It is being used, that's all. No. You cannot use it. You can use it only by the permission of the proprietor. Without permission of the proprietor, if you use it, then you are criminal or you are sinful. Similarly, we have got all the senses. The senses are meant for working. The eyes are meant for seeing, the ears are meant for hearing, the nose is meant for smelling, the hand is meant for touching, the leg is meant for going, the stomach is meant for eating*-so many, we have got, different senses. They are meant for different purpose. But if the purpose is for your sense gratification, then you are criminal because you are not proprietor. This is to understand bhakti. If you do not use all the senses for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, then it is criminal. That is called pāpa.

*So you are doing that. Every one of us, who is doing for Kṛṣṇa? Nobody is doing for Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is doing for his own purpose. He is taking one flower. The devotee is bringing the flower: "Oh, very nice flower. Let me take it to the temple and offer it to Kṛṣṇa." That is devotion. The same flower, "Oh, it is very nice flower. Oh, let me pin it on my bunch of hair." That is pāpa. The same thing. You must know how to utilize it. That is called bhakti. Everything can be utilized. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. That art we have to learn. Anāsaktasya viṣayān. Viṣayān means objectives for sense gratification, viṣayān. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. These are called viṣaya-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. Viṣaya.

*So we are viṣaya. Everyone are. We are eating. Everyone is eating. Who can say, "I am not eating"? So viṣaya. So our business should be not to be attached for eating. Then shall I starve and die? No, you eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Eating is not stopped. Eating is not stopped. Eating means as you are cooking for yourself at home, the same cooking, do it for Kṛṣṇa and offer it to Kṛṣṇa and eat it. That's all. The mode of life should be changed. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that you shall give up eating. No, how can I give you that? No, it is not possible. Neither Kṛṣṇa says, "Just give up eating." Never you will find in the Bhagavad... Yuktāhāra*-vihārasya. You must eat what you need. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. Kṛṣṇa never says that "Unnecessarily you starve." You never find in the Bhagavad-gītā; *neither any ācārya will say. Rather, you offer to Kṛṣṇa first*-class foodstuff because He is the enjoyer, and Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He will leave everything for you for taking prasādam. So automatically you can satisfy your tongue. You offer to Kṛṣṇa first-class food, and Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He will eat; at the same time, He will keep it for you. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. Kṛṣṇa's eating is not like that: because you have given Him very nice foodstuff, He will eat everything and nothing for you. (laughter) That is not Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa eats everything, He accepts your service, and keeps everything for you.

*So this is bhakti*-mārga. It is very nice. Simply you have to learn how to engage your senses. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Your senses are property of Hṛṣīkeśa. As it is said here, hṛṣīkeśa adhīśvaram. Hṛṣīkeśa adhīśvaram. He is adhīśvaram. He is the proprietor. So you must use it. It is not that you stop your senses. That is not required. That is not bhakti. Bhakti means you must engage your senses fully with more enthusiasm, but it should be for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you want to do business, do it very nicely, but give the profit to Kṛṣṇa. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give it to Me." That is bhakti. Nothing is stopped, but you cannot do any unlawful. Bhakti does not mean you can do anything unlawful. But ultimate issue: whatever you do, if it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is rightful. Just like materially, Arjuna was trying to become very gentleman, nonviolent, Arjuna: "Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight." People very much appreciate, "Just see, Arjuna is so gentle, he is trying to become nonviolent, and Kṛṣṇa is inducing him to become violent." This is the vision of the demons. They do not know, whatever Kṛṣṇa desires, that is rightful. Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna to fight. That is rightful. And Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent. That is not rightful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "Why you are talking like anārya?" Anārya-juṣṭam: "This kind of talking... You are kṣatriya, and you are not willing to fight. What is this? This kind of proposal is made by the anārya, uncivilized. You are a kṣatriya. Your duty is to fight, and you are trying to refrain from the fight? You have become so ignorant? Oh, this is not good." Then, when Arjuna understood that he was not in the right point, declining the fight, kārpaṇya-doṣa upahata-svabhāvaḥ, kārpaṇya-doṣa. "I am not doing my duty. I can understand. All right. But I am perplexed. Therefore I become Your student." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I surrender unto You as śiṣya, as Your disciple. Now correct me." And he was, when he was corrected, the same Arjuna said, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]: "Yes, I will fight."

*This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have to act by the desires of Kṛṣṇa. That is the proper use of your senses. You cannot use for your purpose. Anything... Just like you are working in some establishment. Anything in that establishment, you can use for the proprietor's business. You cannot use it. Just like in hospital there are blankets. It is written there, "Hospital Property." So long you are in the hospital, you can use it. But you cannot take it outside. Then you are criminal. Similarly, everything... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to God, and you can use it for the service of God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. This is the instruction, Vedic instruction. You can use it as prasādam, but everything should be offered to the Supreme. Yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ loko 'yaṁ karma*-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. If you do not do that, if you engage yourself always in good activities, as the karmīs they do, and earn money and use it for your own sense gratification, that is pāpa activity.

yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo

*mucyante sarva*-kilbiṣaiḥ

bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā

*ye pacanty ātma*-kāraṇāt

[Bg. 3.13]



*"Those who are cooking in the kitchen very palatable dishes for satisfying the tongue, they are simply eating sinful things." Ye pacanty ātma*-kāraṇāt.



So therefore, if we become sinful every moment, how we can become happy? It is not possible. If you want to become happy, you have to become pious. And the standard of piety is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



750106SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.29

-

Bombay, January 6, 1975



Nitāi: "By the transformation of the false ego in passion, intelligence takes birth, O virtuous lady. The functions of the intelligence are to help in ascertaining the nature of objects when they come into view, and to help the senses."



Prabhupāda:



taijasāt tu vikurvāṇād

*buddhi*-tattvam abhūt sati

*dravya*-sphuraṇa-vijñānam

indriyāṇām anugrahaḥ

[SB 3.26.29]



*So these things are taking place daily within the womb of the mother*-how the child is developing from the day of union of the father and the mother, and, on the first day, it is like a pealike form by the semina of father and mother, and then everything develops. Different types of body, different types of intelligence, different types of brain-how it takes place? If it is simply material, then all children would have come out of the same quality. But it does not so come. Every child, baby born, has got everything separate from the others. How subtle laws of nature is working, we can just imagine. It is not possible to understand by our these material senses even this material formation of the body, what to speak of spiritual understanding.



*Therefore, in the śāstras it is advised, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvāḥ. Things which are beyond your perception, sense perception, acintya, mental speculation, not cintanīya... Acintya. Acintya means mentally speculating. Beyond that, acintya, you cannot think of how this pealike form develops into such a big brain or small brain. The hands, legs, and the mechanical process of different body... This is a machine. In the material world we manufacture machine, manufacturing different parts and assembling them. (aside:) The child may be... But this machine is automatically developing. There is no question of manufacturing each part and then assembling. It is yantra. This body is yantra, machine. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*Īśvara, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is situated in everyone's heart. He is supervising what kind of yantra, or machine, this living entity requires for fulfilling his desires. That is karma. He is engaged in such karma, and he is manufacturing by his karma another body. Everything is going on by the laws of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Guṇaiḥ. By different guṇas-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, goodness, passion, and ignorance*-very subtle machineries are going on. They are all material.



*So here it is said, therefore, dravya*-sphuraṇa-vijñānam. Dravya means physical. Dravya-jñāna. Dravya-jñāna means physical knowledge. And brahma-jñāna means spiritual knowledge. So here it is said, dravya-sphuraṇa. The material, physical, phenomenal atmosphere is developing one after another. The medical science, they are trying to study different cells; *but wherefrom the cells came into action? That is by the influence or by the manipulation of prakṛti. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. And prakṛti is working under the direction of Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ [Bg. 9.10]. Therefore, ultimately, by the superintendence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead everything is going on. But how it is going on, that we cannot explain. We have got limited knowledge. Therefore śāstra says, "Don't try to speculate, because you are imperfect, but things are going on like this." Try to understand. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yo... Simply by your so*-called argument and logic you cannot understand. You have to hear from the authorities that "Things are going on like this."

*This is called śruti, Veda*-jñāna. Śruti, Veda, perfect knowledge is called śruti. Śrutibhiḥ pratipanna, pratipanna. What is established by the śruti, by the Vedic knowledge, that we have to accept. Otherwise there is no other way. So this is even in the material field of activities, and what to speak of the spiritual. Therefore we have to hear from the authorities of śruti. Authorities of śruti... Kṛṣṇa is the original speaker of śruti, or Veda knowledge. Therefore Vedic knowledge is called apauruṣeya. It is not manufactured or concocted by some mental speculator. It is coming from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it was imparted first of all to Lord Brahmā, not by personal presentation, but through the heart. Brahmā is the original person to understand Vedic knowledge. So after his birth he meditated for hundreds of years, and by meditation, through his heart the knowledge of Vedas, śruti, became revealed. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Ādi-kavi means Brahmā. And Brahman means Vedic knowledge. So we have to accept in that way. There is no physical science which can ascertain all this, how the things are taking place. But they are coming. In this way we have to learn from the śruti. Dravya-sphuraṇa-vijñānam indriyāṇām anugrahaḥ.

*So dravya, the physical body, that is influenced by the taijasāt vikurvāṇāt . This physical body is developed by the mode of passion, the ego. The false ego of the spirit soul, when it is influenced by the mode of passion, then these indriyas, different indriyas, senses-eyes, ear, nose, tongue, hands, legs, genital, rectum*-all these things-nine chidras, holes in the body-develop. And they ultimately come to become the different parts and limbs of the senses of the body.

taijasāt tu vikurvāṇād

*buddhi*-tattvam abhūt sati

*dravya*-sphuraṇa-vijñānam

indriyāṇām anugrahaḥ



*In this way the senses came into being. And we have discussed last night the all this controlling is going on under the supervision of Aniruddha. Aniruddha is in charge of development of these indriya also. Indriyāṇām adhīśvaram. Yad vidur hy aniruddha-ākhyaṁ hṛṣīkāṇām adhīśvaram. Hṛṣīka means the indriya, or the senses. So actually we have discussed already. We are simply under some machine. Bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni [Bg. 18.61]. A machine is manufactured immediately. Just like your medical men. They also manufacture some skeleton according to the requirement of the patient. So this body is manufactured by the supervision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the ingredients given by material nature, and I am put into the machine. This is my position. As I desire to enjoy... Actually, I haven't got to enjoy or reject anything. I am put into a certain type of machine, and I have to go or work. Actually, I do not also work. The work is also going on by different agents. I am simply put into it just to satisfy my desires as I wanted. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has given us the chance of enjoying.



*The same example as I have already spoken several times, that a gentleman takes his dog chained, and the dog passes urine, and the gentleman also stands. He passes. He wants to go there, this and there, gives the facility*-but under the control of the chain. Similarly, we, after forgetting our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, when we want to enjoy independently, the chance is given. This chance is given. That is material world. We get a material body, and we are given chance to enjoy as we like. But that is not very fruitful for our satisfaction. After all, we are part and parcel of sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Sat, cit, ānanda. Sat means eternal, cit means knowledge, and ānanda means bliss. So we, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, we have got also the same type or same quality of constitutional position. But because we wanted independently, therefore we are in a position or in a circumstance which is neither sat nor cit nor ānanda. Asat acit nirānanda.

*This body, material body, is asat. Everyone knows. It will not stay: temporary. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. This body is vināśi, and the dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13], the dehinaḥ, the proprietor of the body, he is avināśi. He is sat, but this body is asat. Asad-grahāt. The śāstra says that sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. This living entity, although part and parcel of the Supreme Being, Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, so why, instead of ānanda, we have got anxieties? Instead of ānanda... Actually, we should have been in ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Just like Kṛṣṇa is before us. He is ānanda, He is enjoying, He is playing on His flute, and Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is serving Him, and all the gopīs serving Him. And those who are devotees, they are also trying to assist Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and the gopīs to give Kṛṣṇa pleasure. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. All the expansion, Kṛṣṇa-Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and the gopīs*-they are expansion of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa; *they are not material. They are all ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. They are also Kṛṣṇa's. Everything is Kṛṣṇa, separated and personal. So these are personal expansion. We are also Kṛṣṇa's. We are separated now in this material... Therefore we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa.

*So ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], by expanding His ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, transcendental bliss and spiritual, cinmaya, not material. And so unless we do not know the difference between the material and spiritual, we should not try to understand Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. If we try to understand Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potencies, then we will misunderstand that "Kṛṣṇa is also like us. He is enjoying amongst the young girls. Let us imitate it." That is falldown. Yes. That is called sahajiyā. But Kṛṣṇa's this enjoyment is not material. They are all spiritual. They are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that when the gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa, they came in their spiritual body. The material body was lying down with their husband. The husband could not know that "My wife has gone to Kṛṣṇa." These are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*So this is all spiritual. Ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa, rasa means mellow, the juice. There is juice, but that is not material juice. Material juice is different. That is temporary, asat. That is not sat. So if we want to taste this material juice, then we must be put into always in anxiety. Material life is anxiety. Therefore in this material world we..., I may love somebody, but it is full with anxieties. "My lover may not cheat. She may not go away" or "He may not go away." Because we are not in the spiritual platform, asad-grahāt, we are simply trying to love the external feature which is asat, which will not exist. Just like if you try to love a doll made of earth, dirt, very nicely painted as they are exhibited in the window of the tailor's shop. Who is going to love that? Nobody is going to. Everyone knows that this is imitation. Similarly, this body is imitation. It is a layer on the spiritual body. The spiritual body, when gives up this body, it has no value. A dead body of a beautiful man or beautiful woman, nobody likes because the spiritual essence is gone. Therefore love is actually on the spiritual platform. Material love is simply superficial, and it will cheat you. We must know this. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5].

*So on the sat existence, this material existence develops, and the process of development is described here. And the development of the body is described here, dravya*-sphuraṇa-vijñānam. Dravya-sphuraṇa. Dravya means physical, development of physical body. Vijñāna, this is the vijñāna, how things are developing one after another, one after another. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. This is all by the material nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*So dravya*-sphuraṇa-vijñānam indriyāṇām anugrahaḥ. So our senses follow, and we enjoy these false senses, and that is material existence. So the endeavor should be how to become free from this material existence and come to our spiritual platform. That should be the endeavor of human life. The cats and dogs, they have no such advanced consciousness. They cannot try for it. They are satisfied with this material body and material senses. But in the human-form body there is chance to understand that these senses, this physical formation of the body, is false or temporary. Or false in this sense that it is not my original body. Original body is within this material body. That is spiritual body. Asmin dehe dehinaḥ. Dehino 'smin, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], asmin dehinaḥ. So the spiritual body is actually the body, and this material body is covering. It is explained in different way in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. This material body is just like dress. The dress... I am putting on the shirt, you are putting on the shirt and coat. That is not very important thing. The important thing is the body within the shirt. Similarly, this material body is simply outward covering of the spiritual body by physical atmosphere, but real body is within. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. This external, physical body is called deha, and the owner of this deha is called dehī, "one who possesses this deha." That you have to und... This is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā.



So one should be inquisitive to know "How this physical body has come into existence, covering myself, the spiritual body?" Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So to understand this science, Kapiladeva is explaining the physical Sāṅkhya philosophy, how things are developing. To understand that... The same thing: to understand the simple thing, that "I am not this body. The body has developed from the soul." Therefore we challenge the material scientists. They say that the soul has developed from the body. No. Soul has not developed from the body, but the body has developed from the soul. Just the opposite. The material scientists, they think that combination of these physical elements creates a situation where is..., when there is living, life symptoms. No. That is not. The real is that, fact is, that the spirit soul is there. They are wandering all over the universe. Brahmāṇḍa brahman. Brahmāṇḍa means all over the universe. The spirit soul is sometimes in one species of life; sometimes he's another species of life. Sometimes he is in this planet; *sometimes another planet. In this way, according to his karma, he is wandering. That is his material life. So ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. He is loitering, wandering without any aim. "What is the aim of life? Why I have put into this condition, accepting this material body, the source of all miseries?"*-these questions should be asked. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. And that should be answered properly. Then our life will be successful. Otherwise it is as useless as the body of a cat or a dog-no understanding, mūḍha. Mūḍha.

*So the cats' and dogs' life or the cats and dogs in two legs... Any human being who has no spiritual knowledge, he is no better than the cats and dogs, but difference is: the cats and dogs have got four legs, and this animal has got two legs, that's all. Dvipāda*-paśu. They have been described as dvipāda-paśu. Dvi means two, and pāda means leg. So anyone who has no knowledge of the spiritual existence-how this material body has developed, how we are put into different conditions life-without this knowledge he is two-legged animal, that's all. So don't remain as two-legged animal. You may develop from two-legged animal another body-four-legged animal-but that is not our business. Our business is athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is our life. Now this human form of life should be inquisitive: jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. That is life. You must be very much inquisitive to understand what is your ultimate goal of life. Śreya uttamam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21].

*Therefore Bhāgavata says that in order to understand the Supreme goal of life, śreya uttamam... Śreya means the best. Śreya and preya. Preya means immediately palatable, and śreya means ultimately beneficial. That is called śreya. Just like for a child, playing is priya, preya. He likes to play. But he is by force, by the parents, he is studied books. That is called preya. But because without education, his future life will be dark. So parents know it. Therefore, although the child likes to play-that is preya-the parents engages them into śreya, into education. So that is the Vaiṣṇava's duty. These rascals and fools, they are busy in material sense gratification, and it has become the duty of the devotee. Because the devotees means the servant of the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa. So they have been engaged. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So devotees are so confidential servant of the Supreme Lord. Therefore they are engaged in preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have no business for themself*-they are completely perfect as soon as they have accepted Kṛṣṇa-but they are working on behalf of Kṛṣṇa to turn these two-legged animals to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



750107SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.30

-

Bombay, January 7, 1975



Nitāi: "Doubt, misapprehension, correct apprehension, memory and sleep, as determined by their different functions, are said to be the distinct characteristics of intelligence."



Prabhupāda:



saṁśayo 'tha viparyāso

niścayaḥ smṛtir eva ca

svāpa ity ucyate buddher

lakṣaṇaṁ vṛttitaḥ pṛthak

[SB 3.26.30]



So the modern psychologists, they have divided the function of the mind: thinking, feeling, willing, and then other subdivisions. That is known as the science of psychology. But intelligence... Above mind there is intelligence. I don't think in the modern science there is any analytical study of the intelligence function. But in the Vedic literature there is analysis of the intelligence. They are described here: saṁśaya, doubtfulness. The saṁśaya, saṁśayātmā vinaśyati.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā there is a statement: "Those who are doubtful about the existence of God," vinaśyati, "they are finished." Their progress is finished. Saṁśayātmā vinaśyati. That niścayātmā, that is very good, to believe, to have faith, niścaya, by full assertion. Just like Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if by your intelligence you become doubtful, "Whether Kṛṣṇa is able to give me protection?" then you are finished. Saṁśayātmā vinaśyati. But if you have faith in Kṛṣṇa's words, niścaya, "When Kṛṣṇa says that if I surrender unto Him, He will give me protection, there is no doubt about it," that is called faith. Niścayātmikā. Vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ. Buddhi, intelligence, vyavasāyātmikā, niścayātmikā, that is very good.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

*ekeha kuru*-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

[Bg. 2.41]



Avyavasāyinām, those who have no faith, doubtful, they have got different branches of activities. But one who has got faith, niścayātmikā, "Yes, here Kṛṣṇa says that He will give me protection. Let me surrender," then his life becomes successful.



*This is beginning of successful life. Ādau śraddhā, this śraddhā, or this niścayātmikā buddhi, or vyavasāyātmikā buddhi, is the beginning of spiritual life. If one has no faith in the words of the authorities, then he has no hope. Saṁśayātmā vinaśyati. Vinaśyati means he does not get any chance to enter into spiritual life. We are in the material world. We are... Vinaśyatsu. We are in an atmosphere of being finished. That everyone, we know. This body... I am concerned with this body, and the body is to be finished. But the soul is not finished. Therefore our bhakti*-mārga... How one can make progress in bhakti-mārga? If we have got faith in the words of Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], if we apply our intelligence, niścayātmikā, then our spiritual life begins. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. These are the different methods to make advance in spiritual life, especially in bhakti-yoga, devotional life.

*So ādau śraddhā. Kṛṣṇa says these are on the intellectual platform. Sometimes intellectual platform is taken as sentimental. But if it is rightly taken, somebody believes, even Kṛṣṇa..., Kṛṣṇa's statement, they are not sentimental. They are vijñāna*-sahitam. Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitam. Yaj jñātvā mokṣyase aśubhāt, jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ pravakṣyāmy anasūyave, yaj jñātvā mokṣyase aśubhāt. This is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ [Bg. 7.2]. Pravakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ, yaj jñātvā mokṣyase aśubhāt. That aśubha, inauspicious, we do not understand. We have taken inauspicious thing as auspicious. This is called māyā. We accept something māyā, or illusion, or vivarta. We accept something for something. The example is given: there is a rope, and due to my ignorance or insufficient knowledge, I take it as a snake. This is my insufficient knowledge. The snake is fact, and the rope is fact. But when we take the rope as snake, that is ignorance, or the snake as rope, that is ignorance. The Māyāvādī philosopher says that "We are accepting snake..., er, rope as a snake. But there is no snake." But we, Vaiṣṇava philosopher, we say, "No, there is snake, and there is rope. But when we accept the rope as snake, that is māyā." Similarly, there is spiritual world and there is material world. But when we accept the material world as everything, that is māyā. That is illusion.

*There is spiritual world. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ: [Bg. 8.20] "There is another bhāva, nature." What is the nature? Sarveṣu naśyatsu na vinaśyati: "When the material world, this cosmic manifestation, the phenomenal world, will be finished, that will stay. That will not be finished." There are many example. Just like mirage in the desert. Sometimes you see there is vast mass of water in the desert. The animal runs after the water, being thirsty, but there is no water. Therefore the animal dies. But human being should not be like the animal. They should raise their standard. They have got special consciousness. They can raise their standard of understanding by these literatures, Vedic literatures given by God. Vyāsadeva is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so he has given us the Vedic literature. Therefore his name is Vedavyāsa, incarnation of God, Vedavyāsa. Mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā paraiḥ. There is no need of speculating. Just follow Vyāsadeva in the disciplic succession. Vyāsadeva's disciple is Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni's disciple is Vyāsadeva. So in this paramparā system: if we receive knowledge, then that is perfect knowledge. So we have to accept it. Niścayātmikā.

*Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says that spiritual life can be advanced, the first principle is utsāha. Utsāhāt. Utsāha means enthusiasm: "Yes, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I will accept it and work enthusiastically on the principle, as Kṛṣṇa says." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], and we have to do it, execute it enthusiastically: "Yes, I shall always think of Kṛṣṇa." Man-manāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says directly. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "You just become My devotee." So we have to be enthusiastic, "Yes, I shall become Kṛṣṇa's devotee." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. Kṛṣṇa says, "Worship Me," so we should be very much enthusiastic to worship Kṛṣṇa, offer maṅgala-ārātrika, rise early in the morning. These are all enthusiasm, utsāha. Those who are not enthusiastic, lazy, lethargetic, they cannot advance in spiritual life. Simply sleeping, they cannot make. One must be very, very enthusiastic, positive. Utsāhād dhairyāt. Dhairya means patience, not that "Because I have begun devotional service with great enthusiasm..." So you are already on the perfectional platform, but if you become impatient that "Why I am not becoming perfect? Sometimes why māyā is kicking me?" Yes. That is habitual. That will go on. It will stop. Niścayāt. Dhairyāt, niścayāt, that "When Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], now I have given up everything. I have no other occupational duties. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. So when I have taken to it, then niścaya, Kṛṣṇa will surely give me protection." That is called niścaya. Don't be disappointed. Kṛṣṇa is not a false speaker. He says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi.

So we should have firm faith, niścaya. Niścayāt..., utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt. But niścayāt; *at the same time, you should not sit idly. You should work according to the direction of the spiritual master. Tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. "Now Kṛṣṇa has given me assurance. Now let me sleep. Everything will come automatically." No. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. The spiritual master says, "You must do this. You must do that." That is called tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Not that "Now I am initiated and..." That is going on in so many places. The guru says, "You think of me. Everything will be all right." I do not wish to name, but a very big ashram, they simply sit idly, and the guru has advised that "Think of me," that's all. This is not Vaiṣṇava principle. Vaiṣṇava principle is you must act according to the order of spiritual master. That is also an order. But the Vaiṣṇava spiritual master orders according to the śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā **. This is the instruction of our ācārya.

*So this is called vyavasāyātmikā buddhi. Vyavasāyātmikā buddhi, niścayātmikā buddhi means, with good faith, that "I must execute it. That is my life and soul." If we take that, then our life is successful. Sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Guru is accepted identical with Kṛṣṇa. Haritvena. It is accepted in all the śāstras, Vedic literature, tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ. And those who are devotees, pure devotees, they accept like that. So why they accept? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Guru is very dear to Kṛṣṇa because under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, by the paramparā system, he is training, "You do like this. This is paramparā system. Do not deviate." Because he is training people according to the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is desiring that everyone should surrender unto Him. That is His desire. So guru's business is to train people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, not to become Kṛṣṇa. That is foolishness. You cannot become Kṛṣṇa. Your respect is as Kṛṣṇa because you are doing the most confidential service of Kṛṣṇa, but if you think that you have become Kṛṣṇa, then you are not guru. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya.

*sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair

uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya **



*This sākṣād*-dharitvena, equal to Kṛṣṇa, why? Priya eva tasya. Because he is very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa.



Now, how he has become dear to Kṛṣṇa? Because he is preaching the same principle as Kṛṣṇa wanted.

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

*mad*-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati

[Bg 18.68]



na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu

*kaścin me priya*-kṛttamaḥ

[Bg. 18.69]



*Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who is preaching this confidential cult..." Mad-bhakteṣu abhidhāsyati. Bhakteṣu means "amongst the devotee." Who will understand Kṛṣṇa? And who will surrender to Kṛṣṇa unless he is bhakta? Therefore, guru's business is first of all to make him bhakta. Then he will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa and surrender to Him. He has got very double business. Kṛṣṇa says, mad-bhakteṣu abhidhāsyati. "This cult, who preaches, anyone who preaches this cult of bhakti-yoga amongst My devotees..." He is selecting, "devotees." He never says the jñānīs, yogis. The jñānīs, yogis, will not be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. From the very beginning they think they have become Kṛṣṇa. Vimukta-māninaḥ. They think like that. Actually it is not. Kṛṣṇa is not so cheap thing that one can become Kṛṣṇa. One can become Kṛṣṇa's most confidential servant*-that is possible. But one cannot become Kṛṣṇa. That is another illusion, māyā.



*Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This cult, who will understand unless he is devotee? A jñānī, yogi cannot understand. It is not possible. Because they are not bhakta, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Kṛṣṇa never says, "By jñāna or by yoga, by karma one can understand Me." No, that is not possible. Therefore jñānī, yogi, karmī, they cannot understand. Therefore they are misled. Māyā-mohita. Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Nābhijānāti, they cannot understand. Mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, "Preach this cult amongst the devotees." He never said that "Preach this cult amongst the karmīs, amongst the jñānīs, amongst the yogis." Because they are very unfortunate, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. One who comes in touch with the Māyāvādī... Māyāvādī means one who thinks Kṛṣṇa is also in māyā. That is called Māyāvādī. "Kṛṣṇa's body is also māyā." They are called Māyāvādī.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu warns that māyāvādi*-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Anyone who listens to the commentary of the Māyāvādī philosopher, then his fate is doomed. He is finished. He will never be able to understand bhakti philosophy. It is so poisonous. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī has warned not to hear from avaiṣṇava about Kṛṣṇa. There is a very famous Bhāgavata reader in Bombay. He is a pakka avaiṣṇava. But he is going on, and he is infusing poison-means those who are hearing him, they will never be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. They will never be able. It is so poisonous. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī says, avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam: "Avaiṣṇava, who is not Vaiṣṇava, who is not devotee, if he speaks about Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, nonsense..." He will speak nonsense. So it is not good. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam: "You should never hear." On principle you should avoid hearing from such rascals. This is the injunction of Sanātana Gosvāmī. "Why? He is speaking Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why one should not hear? Bhagavad-gītā is very nice." That's all right. He gives the example, sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Milk... Everyone knows milk is very good food. But if it is touched by the lip of a serpent, then it is finished. Then it is finished. He will die. If you take such milk, then your destiny is to death.

*That is very important point, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, he advised... Many person used to come to see Caitanya Mahāprabhu, but he was first of all examined by His secretary whether he is actually fit for talking with Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Otherwise he will simply waste His time. So one brāhmaṇa from East Bengal came with some literature. Many people used to write something. So when it was examined by Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, he said, "No." Then he explained how the literature was defective. He pointed out. These are described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Then he saw the person was submissive. He did not protest. Then Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī advised him that "You..." Bhāgavata paḍā giya bhāgavata sthāne: "You go to a Bhāgavata, person Bhāgavata, and read or hear Bhāgavata from him. Otherwise you will be misled, doubtful."

*So saṁśayātmā vinaśyati. So it is our business to be very, very careful from understanding spiritual life or devotional life from nondevotee class of men. Nondevotee means one who does not accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is nondevotee. Kṛṣṇa abhakta āra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asked by His one devotee, gṛhastha devotee, that "What is the primary function of a devotee?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said in two lines: asat*-saṅga-tyāga, ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra [Cc. Madhya 22.87]. Asat. Asat means those who are nondevotees. They are asat. They are asat. Why asat? Because they will remain in this material world. Therefore they are asat. And those who will go to the spiritual, who will be promoted to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead, they are sat, oṁ tat sat, because they are being promoted to the eternal kingdom. That is sat. This is the distinction between asat and sat. Those who will perpetually remain within this material world, they are called asat. The karmīs, jñānīs, and yogis. Yogis, they... Just like... What is that big yogis? That ṛṣi, great ṛṣi?

Devotee: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi? Swami Tuk?



Prabhupāda: No, no, not this swāmī. He was very angry.



Devotee: Durvāsā.



*Prabhupāda: Durvāsā, yes. Durvāsā Muni, he was a very, very big yogi. He was such a big yogi that he could go anywhere, even the spiritual world. The yogis can go, travel. There is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. These are called siddhis, yoga*-siddhi: aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti. Nowadays there are so many yogis, but they are not siddhas. They cannot display all these yoga-siddhis. Simply by some exercise, gymnastic, they become yogi. That is... Gymnastic is required in the beginning for controlling the mind. But the yoga-siddhi is different. That require perfect yoga practice. Aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti-siddhi, īśitā, vaśitā.



*So there is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. In that Siddhaloka, the inhabitants are by nature siddhas. They can fly in the sky. From one planet to another planet they can go. There is siddhi, there is laghimā*-siddhi, to become lighter than the air. So they can fly in the air without any burden. These are Siddhaloka. So even these Siddhalokas, the inhabitants who are by nature born perfect in yoga-siddhis, they also could not enter into the Vaikuṇṭhaloka. And karmīs, they go up to the heavenly planet. And jñānīs, they may go up to Brahman effulgence. Paraṁ padam. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. Āruhya kṛcch... They elevate themself very high, so much so that they enter the spiritual world, paraṁ padam. Paraṁ padam, the spiritual world. Really paraṁ padam means the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. But paraṁ padam, because this Brahman effulgence is also bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, the Brahman effulgence is also called sometimes paraṁ padam. But those who are aspiring to merge into that paraṁ padam, Brahman, they are actually not vimukta, vimukta-māninaḥ. They are thinking, "Now we have become liberated." Māninaḥ. Māninaḥ means the position is different, but he is thinking that "I have become now perfect."

*So why if they have gone to the spiritual world and stays in the Brahman effulgence and still they are māninaḥ, not certain? Yes. Why? Because they cannot stay there. This is very logical argument and statement of the Vedic literature. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They fall down because they do not get ānanda. Spiritual effulgence is simply eternity. So suppose if you live eternally without any ānanda, how long you will like to live like that? Is it possible? That you cannot do. Suppose somebody lives eternally in the sky without any death. Rather, he will try to commit suicide. It is not possible. It is not possible. Just like we have got experience. If you remain for very long time-I have got experience*-in the sea or in the air, you feel very uncomfortable. You want to land down, land down, another air station, another port, and feel very uncomfortable. The airplane men, they come down and they take rest on the ground. It is not our nature because it is impersonal. In the air there is no variety, simply air. Similarly, in the sea there is no variety, simply water. So it becomes suffocating. Similarly, those who are aspiring to go to the Brahman effulgence... Brahman effulgence is spiritual world, certainly, but there is no variety. There is no Kṛṣṇa's enjoying with the cowherds boys or Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. You cannot find there. You simply remain in the Brahman effulgence.

*But because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa wants enjoyment, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12), ānandamaya, so we part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we also want ānanda. So to remain in the Brahman effulgence is not ānanda. It is eternity only. It is not ānanda. Therefore on account of absence of ānanda, they come down again to enjoy this material ānanda. We have got many experience of persons. The Māyāvādī sannyāsī, they take sannyāsa, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but after some time they come to take parts in politics. Why? Is (If) jagan mithyā, why you are taking to politics? Because they could not get ānanda. Nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-simply philosophizing, but there was no ānanda. "Therefore let me go to the jail by political activities. There is ānanda." (laughter) Yes, they do practically, yes. So they will take ānanda in the jail, not with Kṛṣṇa.

*Therefore, śāstra says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. This class of men, although after severe penance and austerities, āruhya kṛcchreṇa, very severe penance and austerities performing... The Māyāvādī sannyāsī, those who are really following the principles, their life is very strict, stricter than the Vaiṣṇavas'. So in spite of such strict observance of rules and regulation and rising up to the Brahman effulgence, because they do not get ānanda... Ānanda is there with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇaloka. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, expanding Himself in so many gopīs, so many cowherds boys, so many trees, plants, water, land-everything Kṛṣṇa's expands. Here also it is Kṛṣṇa's expansion, this material world. Bhūmir āpaḥ analo vāyuḥ. That is bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. That is separated energy. Apareyam, this is inferior. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. That information is there. There is another prakṛti, parā-prakṛti. And what is that parā-prakṛti? What is the sample? Jīva-bhūta, living entities. That prakṛti is living, and this prakṛti is dead. That is the difference. Anyone can understand. There also, the trees, they are living tree. Here also living tree, but covered by the material body, his life is not manifested. Just like why we cannot go to other planet? Because I am covered by these material elements. But when I am not covered by the material elements, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], then I can go everywhere automatically. Just like Nārada Muni goes everywhere. He has no impediment.

*So everyone can possess that status of life. So this is niścaya. If we understand Kṛṣṇa philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, rightly, then there will be no doubt by intelligence. Without intelligence, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa philosophy. Dull*-headed, poor fund of knowledge, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Actually, those who are thinking they are jñānīs, they are not jñānīs. They are still in māyā, darkness, because they think that they have finished their business; *now they have become liberated. They have become Nārāyaṇa. Instead of separate Nārāyaṇa, each, every one them, is Nārāyaṇa. They address amongst themselves, "Nārāyaṇa." That is their foolishness. At least you must show the four hands of Nārāyaṇa. Where is your four hand? You are begging, and you are Nārāyaṇa? What kind of Nārāyaṇa you are? Now daridra*-nārāyaṇa they have manufactured. "Yes, I am Nārāyaṇa, but daridra-nārāyaṇa." But we do not know daridra-nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa is Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. He is the husband of Lakṣmī.

*So they manufacture all these concocted ideas. Therefore it is called māninaḥ. They are thinking they have become liberated. Vimukta-māninaḥ. They are ordinary living being, but they can befool some foolish persons. But they are not liberated. They are under the spell of māyā. Māyā is dictating. Just like in the material world, māyā is dictating, "Now you are prime minister. Now you are president. Now you are very rich man, so your life is..." [break] Then you can surrender. Yes. Mattaḥ... Actually, He is na mattaḥ paratara... That is fact. Even Śaṅkarācārya accepts: nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: "Nārāyaṇa is not a living being of this world," but his followers, they are thinking, "I am Nārāyaṇa." You see? They do not know even their original philosophy. It is clearly written by Śaṅkarācārya, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. So... And in the śāstra it is said, yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ, ekatvena or samatvenaiva vīkṣeta sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam [Cc. Madhya 18.116]. Pāṣaṇḍī. Unbeliever, atheist, infidel, faithless*-they are called pāṣaṇḍī. So anyone who thinks Nārāyaṇa on the same level with such exalted demigods like Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā, brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ samatvenaiva vīkṣeta, if he puts Nārāyaṇa on the same level, sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam, he is pāṣaṇḍī.

*So these pāṣaṇḍīs are flourishing in this Kali*-yuga on account of our these doubts. What is that? Saṁśaya, this saṁśaya. So the first business of spiritual life is to become free from saṁśaya. Because saṁśayātmā vinaśyati. We should accept the statement of the śāstra, we should accept the statement of authorities and make our life following. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. That is actually paramparā system, as Kṛṣṇa says, as Kṛṣṇa's devotee says, His authorized agent says. Then our life will be successful. Otherwise saṁśayātmā vinaśyati.

Thank you very much. (end)



750108SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.31

-

Bombay, January 8, 1975



*Nitāi: "Egoism in the mode of passion produces two kinds of senses*-the senses for acquiring knowledge and the senses of action. The senses of action depend upon the vital energy, and the senses for acquiring knowledge depend upon intelligence."



Prabhupāda:



taijasānīndriyāṇy eva

*kriyā*-jñāna-vibhāgaśaḥ

prāṇasya hi kriyā-śaktir

buddher vijñāna-śaktitā

[SB 3.26.31]



*We have to see how wonderfully the subtle actions are described in Sāṅkhya philosophy by Kapiladeva. There are many modern psychologist, scientist, physicist, but they cannot analyze the subtle function that is going on, creating things as they are. Superficially we can see, but how things are taking place, that can be described in the Vedic literatures, not any other book. Therefore it is said, vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ: "One who has studied Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam thoroughly, he has seen the end of knowledge." And actually, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the commentary or explanation on the Vedānta-sūtra. Vyāsadeva made Vedānta-sūtra, the ultimate knowledge, and he made his comment also, natural commentary. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. At the end of every chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you will find, brahma-sūtrasya bhāṣya: "It is the natural comment of Brahma-sūtra." So if we study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam very thoroughly and specifically from a person bhāgavata, then our life is successful. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. That is the instruction, nityam.



*Just like here we are having Bhāgavata class. This is not ordinary Bhāgavata class, not jumping over Kṛṣṇa's rāsa*-līlā. It is not like that. It is step by step studying what is Kṛṣṇa, what is this material world, what is the sambandha, or relationship with Kṛṣṇa-so many things-how this body has developed, how we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, how to revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things must be studied first of all. Then we can understand what is Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with the gopīs. But these professional Bhāgavata preachers, they go, jump over at once. Because it appears like the dealings of young boys and girls, so that is the... Here in this material world, sex impulse... Here in this material world, sex impulse is the center of all activity. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham [SB 7.9.45]. People are working so hard day and night. What is their happiness? The happiness is sex. That's all. That has been described as tuccham, most abominable. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8].

*So we are not aware what is the aim of life. So Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He therefore comes. He came just before the beginning of this Kali*-yuga, the most fallen age, and left for us the Bhagavad-gītā. And then, after Him, after His departure... It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, "After departure of Kṛṣṇa from this planet to His own abode, the principle of religion and knowledge, where it is kept?" So the answer is: "It is kept in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." Adhunā udita. So Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent from Bhagavad-gītā as it is spoken by Him personally, and He is also represented by Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sound representation. So we should take the advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They are kṛṣṇa-kathā, kṛṣṇa-kathā. Kṛṣṇa-kathā means news or words about Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa's kathā, the words given by Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa's words. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means words for Kṛṣṇa. Both of them are kṛṣṇa-kathā, or kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, instruction by Kṛṣṇa.

So here is... Kapiladeva is giving instruction, how things have developed one after another from Kṛṣṇa, from Kapiladeva. Kapiladeva and Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. You read the purport.

Nitāi: "It has been explained in the previous verses that mind is the product of ego in goodness and that the function of the mind is acceptance and rejection according to desire. But here intelligence is said to be the product of ego in passion. That is the distinction between mind and intelligence; mind is a product of egoism in goodness, and intelligence is a product of egoism in passion. The desire to accept something and reject something is a very important factor of the mind. Since the mind is a product of the mode of goodness, if it is fixed upon the Lord of the mind, Aniruddha, then the mind can be changed to Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, here is the secret of training the mind. The whole yoga system, aṣṭāṅga-yoga system-dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, prāṇāyāma, like that*-they are meant for only controlling the mind. Mind is the center of sensual activities. The purpose of aṣṭāṅga-yoga is to train up the mind because the mind is very restless. Arjuna, five hundred years ago, he also appreciated, the mind is very restless. So he declined to practice the haṭha-yoga system. He said clearly that "Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me to control the mind." In another place in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "The mind is the most dearmost friend, and mind is the bitterest enemy." Everyone's bitterest enemy and dearest friend is there. That is the mind. It requires little training.



*For training the mind, this yoga system is. Those who are too much engrossed in the bodily concept of life, for them, this yoga system, aṣṭāṅga*-yoga system, is recommended by practicing a certain type of āsana and making a type of exercise of the breathing, in this way, prāṇāyāma, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, prāṇāyāma. But there is another simple method that is recommended in the śāstra. You can train up your mind if you simply keep your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is here, and you see Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, and if you practice to meditate upon Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, Kṛṣṇa's bodily feature, then immediately your mind becomes controlled. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he was the emperor of the world. He had to manage many political affairs. But he was one of the topmost devotees at the same time. Why? Because... About him it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that he practiced this yoga system, the topmost yoga system. What is that? Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ: "He kept always his mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." And his legs engaged for going... He was king, emperor. He had no business to go. But still, he was using his legs to go to the temple. This is this yoga system. You employ your senses. Instead of going to the cinema and standing there for three hours for a ticket, if you engage your legs to come to this temple, it is yoga system, so simple thing. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ. Instead of thinking some beautiful woman or beautiful man, if you think of Kṛṣṇa, the most beautiful person, then it is yoga system, so simple.

*So every senses you can engage in Kṛṣṇa's service. Just we have got senses, ten senses, and the mind. So mind engaged in Kṛṣṇa, legs engaged for going to the temple, hands engaged for cleansing the temple, nose engaged for smelling the flower offered to Kṛṣṇa or tulasī offered to Kṛṣṇa, tongue to taste Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra*-in this way, you can engage all the senses. There is no need of education. There is no need of passing M.A., Ph.D. You practice this simple yoga system. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. Ambarīṣa Mahārāja used to do that. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. You have to talk, but don't talk nonsense. But you engage your talking about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha means without any kuṇṭha, without any anxiety. Other talking, you will have so many anxieties because that is not vaikuṇṭha talking. But if you engage your talking on the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is talking. Kṛṣṇa is not dumb, deaf and dumb, nirākāra. No. He is talking before Kṛṣṇa, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2], aham: "Here I am. I am the origin of all the devas." So Kṛṣṇa is talking like that. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. He is talking. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Just think of Me, become My devotee." He is stressing everywhere, a person, mama, "unto Me," "My," "I," the first person, everywhere. Aham ādir hi devānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. So these are the talking of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is talking. So you take up this message from Kṛṣṇa directly and engage like that, vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Don't talk nonsense. Or if you talk of Kṛṣṇa, then nonsense talking will stop automatically.

*Now you know that in our institution there are so many European boys and girls. In their own country they are very, very much fond of newspaper. If there is no newspaper, they think life is horrible. But you won't find a piece of newspaper in our temple, because they have stopped talking all nonsense. Only this Bhagavad*-gītā, Bhāgavata. This is called vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. They are no more interested with this nonsense talking of the newspaper. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. This is advancement of spiritual life. I have heard one story from a gentleman, how newspaper is important in Western country. We have seen also big, big bunch of newspaper thrown in every door. They subscribe. So one priest was preaching among the miners in Sheffield, where there are many coal mines, in England. So he was speaking that "You become devotee, followers of Jesus Christ," and in this way he's preaching Bible. So one of the miners, he never heard of Bible nor Jesus Christ. So he inquired, "What is his number?" That means he thought Christ may be one of the miners, and they have got specific number. So he said, "No, you are mistaking. Jesus Christ is Lord. He is not one of you, like worker, no. He's Lord. So if you don't appreciate him, don't worship him, then you will go to hell." Then another man asked, "What is hell?" And he described that "Hell is very dark. It is very moist," and so on. "There is no air there, no light, and..." So they are living always in the mine. There was no response, because they are habituated with this hellish life. (laughing) So the description of hell did not appeal. Then the priest was intelligent, said, "You know, there is no newspaper." Then they said, "Oh, horrible!" (laughter) "It is horrible."

*So that newspaper is so important in the Western countries. Even the miners and the most fallen people, they also read newspaper. And these boys and girls who you are seeing, not only here, there also, they don't care any more for any newspaper, any magazine, except Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. This is a fact. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18].

*So this is... If we simply do these things, that vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha*-guṇānuvarṇane, this Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, description of Vaikuṇṭha, the transcendental life where there is no anxiety... That is Vaikuṇṭha. So Vaikuṇṭha... God's name is also Vaikuṇṭha. In southern India they say, Veṅkateśvara. That is apabhraṁśa of Vaikuṇṭheśvara. They say Veṅkateśvara. But Vaikuṇṭheśvara. Vaikuṇṭha, the spiritual world, and the master of the Vaikuṇṭha, He is called Veṅkateśvara or Vaikuṇṭheśvara. So in this way we can train up ourself. Keep your mind always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Then you become gradually the first-class yogi. You don't require to make any exercise. The everything will be done automatically. Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. As you concentrate your mind on Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, immediately you become qualified to talk with Kṛṣṇa immediately. That is said by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam [Bg. 10.10]. So Kṛṣṇa is there within your heart, and as soon as you engage yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, beginning with sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18] concentrating your mind, that is the yoga system.

*Meditation means to concentrate the mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, not something fictitious, but this is tangible. Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. That is the yoga practice of meditation, but not that he, the yogi, does not know what he is thinking. That is not yoga. This is simply show. Real yoga is to meditate upon the lotus feel of Kṛṣṇa. That is real yoga. Dhyānāvasthita. Dhyāna. Dhyāna means meditation. So they sit down in dhyāna. What is the subject matter of dhyāna? The subject matter of dhyāna is the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. That is dhyāna, dhyāna-yoga. That is... Then you get yogic perfection. And Kṛṣṇa recommends in the Bhagavad-gītā how first-class yoga is thinking of Kṛṣṇa:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*The first*-class yogi is...



*So actually it is so. As soon as you contact the Supreme, yoga... Yoga means contact, and another meaning, everyone knows, in mathematics, yoga: one plus one equal to two. And viyoga: one minus one equal to zero. Viyoga, vi*-yoga, discontact, and contact. So we are now separated. Separated superficially . "What is God? I don't care for God. I am God, this, that." Therefore, yoga system is required to connect again your relation, reestablish. It is not broken. It is exactly like that: a boy is away from home for many, many years, so he is now separated or discontact. But immediately he can contact by remembering his father, mother, family, immediately. Immediately the relationship is revived. So yoga system means from time immemorial we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, or God. This is our position. Kṛṣṇa bhuli' sei jīva anādi-bahirmukha [Cc. Madhya 20.117]. Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, anādi, before creation, therefore I am looking after external things for my happiness. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ.

*Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum, bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ, those who have been captured by this external energy, māyā, material world, they do not know what is their actual interest. The interest is to revive again his relationship with the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. And,

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*Andha, the leaders of this class of man, they are also blind. We are blind, and the leaders, so*-called leaders, he also does not know what is the aim of life. And they are misleading us in so many ways by so-called political emancipation, this party, that party, but they do not know actually what is the aim of life. Therefore they are andhas. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. And we are also andhas. So andha leading andha. So how there can be any peace and prosperity? Therefore the whole world is unhappy, chaotic condition, and everyone is manufacturing his own way of life to become happy. But they are not becoming happy because they do not know what is the aim of life. This is the position.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is at least trying to give the people what is the aim of life, how he can be happy, how he can regain his eternal position of blissful life. These are the things. And they are authorized. What we are presenting, that is nothing manufactured by concoction of the brain. No. It is all authorized, all authorized. So if we take advantage of this movement, then we become happy, we become in the perfect knowledge, blissful life, even in this life, and next life you go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



750109SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.32

-

Bombay, January 9, 1975



Nitāi: "When egoism in ignorance is agitated by the sex energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the subtle element sound is manifested, and from sound comes the ethereal sky and the sense of hearing."



Prabhupāda:



tāmasāc ca vikurvāṇād

*bhagavad*-vīrya-coditāt

*śabda*-mātram abhūt tasmān

nabhaḥ śrotraṁ tu śabdagam

[SB 3.26.32]



So this creation... The beginning of the creation is the sound. The modern physicist, they also agree. Sound and light, according to their theory... But the sound is the origin of creation, mixed with these modes of ignorance. Everything here in the material world is spiritual reflection covered by the material elements. So when this sound is purified or you catch up the spiritual sound, then your spiritual life begins. As from the material sound this material creation has begun from first of all the sky, nabha, or ether; and from ether, air is created, wind; *and from air, then fire is created, electricity... You see. From the sound, there is immediately electricity in the sky, the fire. Electricity means fire. So from sky, the sound is created. From the sound, air is created. By the friction of air, the electricity, or fire, is created. Then, within the fire, there is water. And after water, there is land. This is pañca*-bhūta, five gross elements. It is coming from the subtle elements. From the subtle elements, the gross elements gradually develop.



*So in the ether there is sound, śabdagam. And from the sound the instrument of hearing is created, śrotram. Similarly, our subtle senses*-rūpa, rasa, śabda, sparśa, gandha... So śabda, sparśa..., then sparśa. Sparśa means touching. When there is air, there is touching. Touching sensation is created. And when there is fire, then form sensation is created. When there is water, then rasa, taste sensation, is created. And from rasa, water, when there is earth, then gandha, gandha sensation, or smell, is created. How scientifically it is described: rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśa. They are the sense perception. The sense perception is created from the five elements: earth, water, air, fire, and ether. And above that, there is still finer materials: mind, intelligence, ego. And then, behind that, the soul is there. As the material creation, behind everything, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is there, bhagavat-coditāt... It is not automatically taking place. Vikurvāṇād bhagavad-vīrya-coditāt. Just like the sex. When the semina is discharged by the man, then there is pregnancy, not automatically. Similarly, here also, the same thing: bhagavad-vīrya-coditāt, in the tamo-guṇa. That means the origin of this creation is tamo-guṇa, tamas. The whole creation is tamas, ignorance. Every one of us in ignorance. We do not know. Therefore Vedas says, tamasi mā: "Don't stay in this tamasi." Jyotir gama. Jyoti is Brahman. "Try to come out there." And the whole Vedic knowledge is based on this principle, how to again give up this association of tāmasika-guṇa and come to the sattva-guṇa, and then surpass sattva-guṇa, come to the transcendental position of brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20]. This is the position.

*So as this material creation has begun from material sound under the agitating, impelling method by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, similarly, by spiritual sound, you can get out of it, because sound is the central point. When it is mixed with tamas, tamo*-guṇa, then the material creation begins. So similarly, if you directly catch up that sound... The sound is śabda-brahma. Sound is actually spiritual, the Vedic sound om, oṁkāra. Oṁkārāsmi sarva-vedeṣu. So Vedic sound begins: om. So that is a sound. So if we capture that sound and make further progress, śabdād anāvṛtti... In the Vedānta-sūtra it is there, anāvṛtti, no more repetition of birth and death, oṁkāra. If one can chant oṁkāra at the time of death, immediately transferred to the spiritual world, impersonal spiritual effulgence. But if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you go to the spiritual planet. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Anta-kāle, at the time of death, if you can capture this sound, oṁkāra or Hare Kṛṣṇa... If you capture oṁkāra, then you are transferred to the spiritual sky. As it is said, the sky. Śabdāt... Śabda-mātram abhūt tasmān nabhaḥ. Nabha is sky. So there is a point wherefrom the sky, the material sky, begins and there is spiritual sky. The sky is spiritual wherefrom the śabda is resounded. Because there is sky, therefore there is sound. Because there is sound, therefore the instrument of hearing sound, the ear, is there.

*So our material position and spiritual position*-the ultimate point is sound. And this sound is presented in its original spiritual form. That is called Veda, śabda-brahma. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. This brahma means śabda-brahma. The śabda-brahma was imparted or vibrated by Kṛṣṇa in the heart of Brahmā. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. And then he could realize what is his position. Then, after hearing the sound, he compiled this Brahma-saṁhitā. That Brahma-saṁhitā we have recited many times. The Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, by personal realization through the mercy of Kṛṣṇa on account of this sound, transcendental, being injected within heart, he could see the whole spiritual world as it is. And that is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*He is offering... He is not claiming himself that "I am the first person for creation," although in this material world, Brahmā is the first person, then Lord Śiva, Rudra. And before Brahmā, there is Viṣṇu. Therefore it is said, aham evāsam agre. Agre, "Before the creation, there was only Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa. There was no Brahmā, no Śiva." These are Vedic statement. In the beginning Lord Viṣṇu was there. And we know the method of creation. There was water, and from that, in that water, Mahā*-Viṣṇu is lying there. From Mahā-Viṣṇu in His sleeping condition, there are so many... Universes are created in the exhaling breathing process. And when He inhaling, the whole thing is annihilated. In this way this material creation is coming and going. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].



*So we have to understand that the creation actually begins in the tamo*-guṇa by agitated impelled by the Bhagavat, Bhagavān. Here it is stated, vikurvāṇād bhagavad-vīrya-coditāt. Not that automatically. Just like if you take two chemicals, soda bicarb and citric acid, and mix together, make two solution, soda bicarb and citric acid, and mix together, there will be, what is called? Bubbles. Huh?

Devotee: Effervescence.



*Prabhupāda: Effervescence, yes. There is effervescence. So that effervescent takes place not due to this chemical but due to the chemist who mixes together. Then effervescence takes place, and then the action comes in contact. So modern scientists, they are being unable to see that who is mixing the chemical. Because Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25], therefore the scientist cannot see bhagavad-vīrya-coditāt. They cannot see. They are seeing simply two mixture and mixed together. It is mixing by certain person, but who is mixing, that they cannot see. But that is bhagavad-vīrya-coditāt. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Prakṛti is working, interaction of two chemicals or many chemicals. They are accepting it that the chemicals were already there. But wherefrom the chemicals came? They say that hydrogen and oxygen mixed together, and the water... Now you see the vast water, not only here, but there are so many other oceans, Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean. And not only in this planet, but there are innumerable planets, and innumerable Pacific Oceans are floating in the air. Where you got so much chemical? Who supplied it? If the hydrogen-oxygen is the cause of water, then wherefrom so much chemical came into existence? Of course, they came in existence the same process, as it is stated here. It is coming from the sky, and the sky is generated by bhagavad-vīrya in the tamo-guṇa.



*So originally everything is coming from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, simplifying the matter and informing us-"You fools, you try to understand." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin." And Vedānta*-sūtra says that janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. "Janma ādi, from whom, that is Brahman." That is Kṛṣṇa. Janma, this janma or the creation of this material cosmic manifestation, phenomenal world, who is the cause of janma? The cause is Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Then He is the cause of Brahmā, devānām, Śiva. Padma-palāśa-locana, padma, padma-nābha. Therefore Viṣṇu's another name is Padmanābha. Padmanābha, He causes the lotus flower from His navel, and there is Brahmā. And then Brahmā creates whole universe. The original creator is bhagavad-vīrya-coditāt, not this material. The material, there was no existence of the material. The materials are created by the Supreme Living Being. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is to be understood. So the modern theory that the phenomenal world or this cosmic manifestation is due to chemical combination... They have written books, Chemical Evolution. The same example, that a solution of soda bicarb and solution of citric acid, mixed together, there is effervescence. But who is mixing? The mixture is bhagavad-vīrya-coditāt. This is to be understood.

So the creation, beginning of creation, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. That is to be understood. And the beginning of creation is śabda, the ether and the sky. I think modern science also admits the beginning of creation is sound. There are so many sound theories. Sound and light, they have written so many books, chemical composition. Here also this is... That sound... From the sound, the sky is created, and then air, and then fire, then water, and at last, this land. So in the land there are five perception: rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśa. Five perception. In the earth you will find the form, and there is taste. You will have some taste. If you taste earth, dirt, you will find some salty taste, because earth containing sixty percent soda. That is chemical analysis. So you will find taste, rasa. And rūpa, rasa, śabda you will find also. Any metal you strike together, there will be śabda. Rūpa, rasa, gandha. There is smell. You see so many plants are growing, flowers. Wherefrom they are getting this scent? You see? You getting from the earth. The bad smells and good smell, everything is coming from the earth. And where is the chemist that they can take out rose scent from earth? That is not possible. But there is. There is no doubt about it. Otherwise wherefrom the scent is coming? The rose flower, you are smelling so nicely, but where it has got this smell? From the earth. The earth is there. Rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, and sparśa. Then, in the water, one thing is minus. And then, in the fire, two things are minus. And from the air, three things are minus. And from the sound, four things are minus. Only sound is there. The sound is the original cause of this creation where we are materially bound up.

*Because I am spirit soul, I have nothing to do with this material atmosphere. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ: "This spirit soul has nothing to do." But on account of his material association by different processes, we have grown this body, material body, and we are now... That is entangled. Just like a fish becomes entangled within the network, similarly, we are, we living entities, we are entangled with the network of this fabrication of this material elements. So very difficult position. Just like the fish caught up in the net of the fisherman, or māyā, similarly, we are now caught up within the network created by the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... [Bg. 3.27]. Because we associated the particular type of material modes of nature, then we are now entangled. Like the fish is entangled, similarly, we are also entangled. This material world is supposed to be like a big ocean, bhavārṇava. Arṇava means ocean, and bhava means the situation where repetition of birth and death takes place. This is called bhavārṇava. Anādi karama*-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale. Anādi karma-phale: "Before creation I had my resultant action of my activities, and somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean of bhavārṇava, repetition of birth and death." So as the fish, being entangled, he struggles for existence, how to get out of the net... He's not peaceful. You will find. As soon as caught he's up in the net, "Fut! Fut! Fut! Fut! Fut!" He wants to get out. So that is our struggle for existence, how to get out. We do not know.

*So to get out of this, only the mercy of Kṛṣṇa... He can do everything. He can immediately take out from this entanglement. Otherwise how he is Almighty? I cannot get out. The fish cannot get out, but the, if the fisherman wants, he can get him out immediately and throw in the water. Then he gets life again. Similarly, if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, He can get out immediately. And He says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. You simply surrender. As the fisherman is seeing, "Fut! Fut! Fut!" but if the fish surrenders... He wants to surrender, but he does not know the language. Therefore he remains within the network. But if the fisherman likes, he can take it out and throw in the water. Similarly, if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa... For that surrendering process this human life is meant. In other life, the fish cannot, but I can. That is the difference between the life of the fish and my life. The fish entangled in the network, he has no power. He is doomed. So doomed, doomed, in this way, by nature's mercy, he gets evolution. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. The living entity is entangled in the network of this material nature. He has to go through nine lakhs' species of this aquatic life. There are nine lakh species of fish in the water. Who knows it? The śāstra says. One who has seen. Who has seen how many varieties of fishes are there? But there are many, many varieties. From the śāstra we get information of the whale fish, timi. And there is another fish which is called timiṅgila. Timiṅgila means he is so big that he swallows up this timi, whale fish, like a small... (makes gulping sound) Finished. (laughter) They are called timiṅgila. So you have not seen. We have not seen. But the śāstra says.

*Therefore we have seen because śāstra-cakṣuṣā. You should see through the śāstra. Otherwise what can you see with your tiny eyes? You cannot see, say, three yards more than that. Imperfect. Every senses, all sense, they are imperfect. You cannot see. You are seeing the sun, but what you are seeing? You are seeing just like a disc. But it is fourteen thousand times bigger than this planet. So your this naked sense perception has no value. Don't try to gather knowledge through these naked senses. Try to gather knowledge just like how creation is made. And that is stated here by the authorities, Kapiladeva. And if you take it, then your knowledge is perfect. And if you imagine, "Perhaps there was a chunk, and there was this, there was that"*-all nonsense. At least we, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we don't accept this nonsensical proposition. Our knowledge is derived-tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is Vedic injunction. "If you want to know perfectly, if you want to have perfect knowledge," tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva, "you must approach guru." Here is guru, Kapiladeva, or Kṛṣṇa, God. God is guru, original guru. God gave lessons to Brahmā. Brahmā gave lessons to Nārada. Nārada gave lessons to Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva gave lessons to us. This is Vyāsadeva's contribution. And if you follow this disciplic succession, then you get perfect knowledge. Otherwise, if you speculate, then you are in darkness, tamasi. What power you have got? All your senses are imperfect. How you can get perfect knowledge? That is not possible. Therefore the injunction is, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "You must go to guru." And who is guru? This paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2].

*So this is the process. If you want perfect knowledge, you must approach guru. And who is guru? Guru means the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. "Ācārya," Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ vijānīyāt: "he is Myself. I am. Because he is My perfect representative*-he won't speak anything nonsense; *he will speak something or everything which he has heard from Me-therefore he is ācārya." Ācārya means one who knows the śāstra and practically uses in his life, and the same thing, he teaches to his disciple. That is called ācārya. Ācārya is not a self-made man. No. Ācārya means ācinoti yaḥ śāstrāṇi. One who understand the śāstra, the Vedic śāstra, and practices in life and teaches the same thing to his student*-that is called ācārya. So ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit, na asūyeta martya-buddhyā [SB 11.17.27]. So ācārya should not be considered as ordinary man, because he is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, "All the śāstras..." The śāstra is the basic strength, platform. So all the śāstra says the ācārya: "He is representative of the Supreme Lord." So sākṣād-dharitvena. Sākṣāt, not indirectly, supposingly. No. Directly, sākṣāt. Sākṣāt means directly. So how he is directly representative? Suppose Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago or millions of years ago, because Kṛṣṇa first spoke to Vivasvān. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "This yoga system, I first of all explained to Vivasvān, the sun-god." That means millions and millions of years. Later on, again, He explained. So He says that "That very old thing, again I am explaining to you, Arjuna. There is no change."

*So Bhagavad*-gītā, the lessons of Bhagavad-gītā, cannot be changed by the whims of rascals. This is not possible. Aham avyayam. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Avyayam. This yoga is avyayam, not that with the change of time, the meaning would be changed. That is not possible. The meaning would remain the same thing. The millions of years ago Kṛṣṇa said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. That does not mean that the meaning has changed. "Because it has become old, now I can change." The speaker can say that "When Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, so Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone. Now I am incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. You think of me." This is going on. This rascaldom is going on. "Kṛṣṇa is now dead and gone. Now I am avatāra." Then the answer is: "Then you will be dead and gone, then somebody will come." Just like the meaning of "my head." One child, one boy, was reading "my head," and the teacher is explained, " 'My head' means my head." So the child thought teacher said... When he explained the meaning " 'My head,' it is my head," so the child thought, "The teacher says 'my head.' Therefore 'my head' means teacher's head." (laughter) Another person came: "No, no. It is not teacher head. It is 'my head.' " Then he thought brother's head, then father's head. In this way he became puzzled.

*So due to this nonsensical meaning, people are puzzled, that "Whom to surrender? Because Kṛṣṇa I do not see." No. Kṛṣṇa is always existing. So you can... Kṛṣṇa is existing, and to be perceivable by you, Kṛṣṇa has appeared before you. Here is the arcā*-mūrti. The arcā-mūrti we are serving. It is not that... Don't think. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīḥ. If you are rascal, they will think that "These people are serving a stone statue." The rascals will think like that, but that is not the fact. Here, practical serving of Kṛṣṇa. The same ācārya has taught that here is Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Śrī-vigraha. This arcā-mūrti, śrī-vigraha, ārādhanam, you should worship. This is the ācārya-panthā. This is the paramparā.

*So this worship is going on under this paramparā system. It is not manufactured. Ācāryaṁ mām... What the ācārya says, if you follow, then you become perfect. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. If you follow the instruction of ācārya, then you understand perfectly everything. Tad viddhi praṇi... But you have to understand by praṇipātena, by submission, not by challenging. If you challenge, then you will never be able to understand. This whole process is submission. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If you are not prepared to submit, then you will never understand. You will remain in this tamas, tamas. Tamasi mā. But don't remain in tamas. Come to the light.

Thank you very much. (end)



750111SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.34

-

Bombay, January 11, 1975



Nitāi: "The activities and characteristics of the ethereal element can be observed as the accommodation for the room for the external and internal existences of all living entities, namely the field of activities of the vital air, the senses and the mind."



Prabhupāda:



*bhūtānāṁ chidra*-dātṛtvaṁ

bahir antaram eva ca

*prāṇendriyātma*-dhiṣṇyatvaṁ

*nabhaso vṛtti*-lakṣaṇam

[SB 3.26.34]



Space, accommodating space, this is the function of the ether. So this is technical description. There is nothing very much philosophy. Technical composition. So you can read the purport.



*Nitāi: The mind, the senses and the vital force, or living entity, have forms, although they are not visible to the naked eye. Form rests in subtle existence in the sky, and internally it is perceived as the veins within the body and the circulation of the vital air. Externally there are invisible forms of sense objects. The production of the invisible sense objects is the external activity of the ethereal element, and the circulation of vital air and blood is its internal activity. That subtle forms exist in the ether has been proven by modern science by transmission of television, by which forms or photographs of one place are transmitted to another place by the action of the ethereal element. That is very nicely explained here. This verse is the potential basis of great scientific research work, for it explains how subtle forms are generated from the ethereal element, what their characteristics and actions are, and how the tangible elements, namely air, fire, water and earth, are manifested from the subtle form. Mental activities, or psychological actions of thinking, feeling and willing, are also activities on the platform of ethereal existence. The statement in Bhagavad*-gītā that the mental situation at the time of death is the basis of the next birth is also corroborated in this verse. Mental existence transforms into tangible form as soon as there is an opportunity due to contamination or development of the gross elements from subtle form.





*Prabhupāda: So one important thing, that "The statement in the Bhagavad*-gītā that the mental situation at the time of death is the basis of the next birth is also corroborated in this verse." Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Generally, with our these material eyes, material senses, gross vision, we do not see how a person dying and he is being transformed to another body. The gross material scientists, scholars, because they cannot see with the eyes, they do not believe in, that there is soul and soul transmigrates from one body to another. Big, big scientists, big, big scholars, they do not believe. They think that life is nothing but a mixture of these material elements and at a time the vitality is finished; *therefore everything is finished. But that is not the fact. The fact is the gross body is finished, but the subtle body-mind, intelligence, and ego*-that remains with the soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The... Just like in dream we do not work with this gross body, but we work in dream with mind, intelligence and ego. We create another atmosphere, and in dream we see or we place ourself in a different atmosphere, although the gross body is resting on the bed. So this we experience every night, that because the gross body stops working, it does not mean the soul stops working. The soul works with his mind, intelligence and ego. So when this body becomes incapable of working further, then the mind, intelligence and ego carries me to another body, means another process of formation of the body into the womb of the mother, and when the body is formed and in working capacity, even as a child or baby, then the body comes out and the living entity's another chapter of life begins. This is the process of transmigration of the soul.



*So mind is the basic principle of another form of body. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is training the mind how to remain Kṛṣṇa conscious at the time of death, because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam [Bg. 8.6]. Therefore in Bengali poetry there is a saying, bhajan kara sādhan kara mate janle haya,(?) means "You are doing everything in spiritual life, but everything will be examined at the time of death. How you have practiced your bhajana, sādhana, this will be examined at the time of death." If at the time of death you remember Kṛṣṇa, that will be the examination. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, training the mind. So at the time of death, if you think of Kṛṣṇa, then your examination is passed. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam [Bg. 8.6]. That kṛṣṇa-bhāva immediately will carry you to the Kṛṣṇaloka.

*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Mad*-yājinaḥ, Kṛṣṇa says. "Those who are worshiping Me," yājana... Yājana means worshiping. So Kṛṣṇa therefore advises, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So Kṛṣṇa worship, mad-yājī, worshiping Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says, "Worship Me." What is that? Māṁ namaskuru. If you simply come in this temple and offer little obeisances, daṇḍavat... Daṇḍa, daṇḍa means "rod"; *vat means "like." Just like one stick falls straight on the ground, similarly, if we fall straight before the Deity, that is called daṇḍavat, "like the stick." Daṇḍavat*-praṇāma. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa namratā. Namratā is required. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Namanta. Be submissive. So this daṇḍavat is the symbolic presentation of submission. And Kṛṣṇa wants that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], submission. The bhakti process is simply submission. So mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. If you do not study or if you have no education to study Vedic literatures, you simply... The temple is installed for this purpose, that if somebody comes, simply offers his obeisances before the Deity, before the spiritual master, simply by doing that, he will become perfect. Just like these children. A small child is offering obeisances. It may be said that they are imitating, but not all child imitates. There are many children. So there are fortunate children who comes here, offers obeisances, dances with kīrtana, and... So these are not in vain. They are taken into account, and he also becomes developed in spiritual consciousness. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt.



*Mahato bhayāt. Bhaya, or fearfulness, is of our next life. That is bhaya. Everyone is afraid of dying. Why? There is fearfulness that after this body, after death, nobody knows where he is going. That is bhaya. Everyone should be afraid of that. Suppose you are pushed somewhere. You do not know whether..., where you are going. So that is very dangerous. One must know "Where I am going." But they do not believe in the next life. Due to lack of knowledge, poor fund of knowledge, they... There is no question of disbelieving. It is quite logical, as Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. As you are changing body... Everyone is changing. Everyone knows, "I was a child. Then I became a baby, I became a boy, I became a young man. Now I am old man." So these, one after an..., change, one body after another, that is going on simply... Similarly, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, after this body is finished, I must get another body. So I am transformed to one body to another by mind, intelligence and ego. That has to be trained, mind. If you train up your mind where to go... We decide even in this life. We first of all decide in the mind, "Where I shall go?" We purchase ticket. We make arrangement. Similarly, the mind should be trained up how to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is called bhajana-sādhana, to train up the mind. If the mind becomes disturbed at the time of death, then... Even Bharata Mahārāja, such an exalted person, he became very much affectionate with a deer calf, and he had to take birth as a deer. Such an exalted person, so much advanced in spiritual life, but at the time... Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam [Bg. 8.6]. He was absorbed in the thought of the small deer whom he loved very much, so he had to take the body of a deer.

*So there is such chance. So how much careful we should be, training our mind so that at the end of life we can think of Kṛṣṇa. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, training the mind to think of Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This should be trained up. And the... That is also practical. We can understand. Just like some air is passing before us, and there is some good smell, rose smell. We can understand that the air is carrying the flavor of this rose because it is passing through the rose garden. So you cannot see the mind or the air*-it does not mean that subtle things are not there. Don't believe your eyes in that way. You have to know things as it is stated here. The space, the air, they are acting. Prāṇa-vāyu. The yoga system is controlling the vāyu, the air within the body. That is called prāṇāyāma, prāṇa, prāṇa, vāyu, control the prāṇa-vāyu. So perfect yogi, they control the prāṇa-vāyu in such a way that by their sweet will they can transfer themselves through the prāṇa-vāyu in different planets. They can do that when they are fixed up, that "Now I am completely able to transfer myself," so they can transfer to any planet, or if he wants, he can transfer himself to the spiritual world. That is the perfection. We have given this picture in our Perfection of Yoga book: a yogi is transferring himself to another planet. So if you want to go to the planets of the demigods... They are trying to go to the moon planet, but by yoga system, you can transfer yourself to any planet by yoga practice perfection. Therefore we have written that book Easy Journey to Other Planets. You can go to any other planet by bhakti-yoga or the aṣṭāṅga-yoga. Aṣṭāṅga-yoga, by practicing and becoming perfect, you can transfer to any planet yourself within this material world. But by bhakti-yoga, you can transfer yourself immediately to this spiritual Vaikuṇṭhaloka or Goloka Vṛndāvana. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām.

*So the yoga system is meant for that purpose, that you practice yoga, and when you are mature, you can select an auspicious time and transfer yourself to certain planet, as you like. Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. If you want to go to the demigod's planet, so you can transfer there. And if you want to transfer yourself to Kṛṣṇaloka-mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām*-that is the best way. Because here, even if you transfer yourself to the Brahmaloka, the topmost planet, where duration of life is millions and millions of years... You can transfer in that planet, but that is not very good bargain. Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna: [Bg. 8.16] "Even if you transfer yourself to the Brahmaloka, where the duration of life is very, very long, still, you have to come back again." Kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. So long your pious balance is there, you can stay there. But after that, you have to come back again in this material world. So śāstra says, "So if you have to prepare yourself, then why don't you prepare for going back to home, back to Godhead?" Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Kṛṣṇa says, "If you go to the spiritual planet, Vaikuṇṭhaloka or Goloka Vṛndāvana, then you haven't got to return. That is eternal." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Mām eti. If you go to Kṛṣṇa, then your complete success is...

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



Saṁsiddhim, that is the highest perfection, paramam. Therefore we should try, we should endeavor, for that purpose, how to go back to home, back to Godhead.



*So simply you have to train your mind. Man*-manā bhava..., this, the prescription. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśaya. Kṛṣṇa says that "You, this practice," mām evaiṣyasi, "you will come to Me." Asaṁśaya. Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no doubt about it." So why don't you do that? Train your mind, always Kṛṣṇa conscious, and the method is simple. You do not require much education or university degree-nothing of the sort. Simply man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: you just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa and always think of Him. Where is the difficulty? You can walk on the street and remember Kṛṣṇa. Is there any tax? No, the government will not ask you for any income tax, sales tax, that "You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." They may do so. The time is coming. (laughter) They may say, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa people must be taxed three times because they are chanting and doing nothing." The Communist government will do that. So never mind. The tax will be sent by Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) You haven't got to bother. Still, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22], Kṛṣṇa says. You believe in Kṛṣṇa. Then every problem is solved. We have no problem if we simply follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 10.10]. Even they tax for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will bring the money. We are getting that practically. So you know the history, how this land was purchased. There was no money, but Kṛṣṇa sent money and everything was done nicely. So there is no anxiety, provided we are purely Kṛṣṇa conscious, without any other desire.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*No other desire. Simply... Desire will not come. Kṛṣṇa is so strong and nice. As soon as you allow Him to sit down within your heart... He is there already. Simply you have to see. Then the strength is already there. There is no need of acquiring external strength for acquiring Kṛṣṇa. The simple thing is that you follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65].



*So this is very natural. This temple worship is meant for that purpose. Actually, when we see the Deity, immediately our mind become Kṛṣṇa conscious. At least, we think of Kṛṣṇa: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." So that is man*-manāḥ. Chanting also, chanting, that is kṛṣṇa-manāḥ, man-manāḥ. In this way you become bhakta. Regularly chanting, you become bhakta. Without becoming bhakta, nobody can chant. So man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. And worship Deity. He has come very kindly to accept your service. You just dress Him, just bathe Him, just decorate Him with ornaments, with garland, with nice thing. So He is ready. Just like a child is ready to accept the service of the mother. The mother dresses the child nicely, and the child accepts. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that... You cannot capture Kṛṣṇa in His virāḍ-mūrti. You can capture Kṛṣṇa in your capacity. So Kṛṣṇa has agreed. So take this chance. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. Worship Him. Why you are denying? It is not difficult, not expensive at all. And in this way, if you follow the process, then your bhāva, your nature, will be changed. You will become a complete devotee.

*So at the time of death, if you can maintain this bhāva, Kṛṣṇa conscious bhāva... The bhāva is the perfection. Bhāva is attained after much practice of devotional service. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Āsakti, when there is āsakti, attraction, attraction... Now, recently I have received one letter. One boy, he was engaged in worshiping the Deity in our Hyderabad center, and he was transferred to Madras. So he became madlike. He has come back. He could not stay there without serving. He has written me letter. So that is bhāva. He cannot stay without worshiping the Deity. That stage comes. You have to simply adopt it. Tato bhāvaḥ. Tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Anartha. Anartha means we are accustomed to this material condition of life, so many anarthas. Just like there are so many people, they are going to the cinema in the evening. But those who have attained bhāva, his anartha nivṛtti is already done. He is not attracted any more by the cinema. He is attracted, bhāva, in the worship of the Deity. That is called bhāva. That bhāva means prema. Only thinking of Kṛṣṇa, serving Kṛṣṇa, simply busy in Kṛṣṇa's service*-that is the perfection of life. And if we can maintain that bhāva, that situation, mentality, then yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6], and at the time of death, if that bhāva is maintained, that is saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. That is the highest perfection of life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness practice, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are trying to... We are not trying to give others. We are trying ourself also, how to get that bhāva. That is the perfection of life.

*So human life is meant for that purpose, not to practice how to imitate barking like the dog, no. That is not human life. Human life is meant for acquiring this bhāva. Budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ. In another place in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, budhāḥ...

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Bhāva*-samanvitāḥ. Budhāḥ. Those who are actually learned, actually advanced, such persons-budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ, bhajante mām. That is perfection of life. So take this opportunity, human life. Don't miss. You may be very proud of your intelligence, but this intelligence is not very good intelligence if you are devoid of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you are a mūḍha. If, by your intelligence, you learn how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and worship Him with bhāva, that is real intelligence. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. And if you try to become intelligent, some tricks, material trick, to get some money or cheat others, that is not very good intelligence. These cats and dogs that... They have also such intelligence. How to steal food from the room, the cat knows very well. So that is not intelligence. That intelligence can be found, even birds, beasts, everywhere. Real intelligence is how to regain your Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be promoted to the stage of bhāva, and at the time of death maintain that bhāva, and then your life is successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9].



Thank you very much. (end)



750112SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.35-36

-

Bombay, January 12, 1975



Nitāi: "From ethereal existence, which evolves from sound, the next transformation takes place under the impulse of time, and thus the subtle element touch and thence air and sense of touch become prominent."



Prabhupāda:



*nabhasaḥ śabda*-tanmātrāt

*kāla*-gatyā vikurvataḥ

sparśo 'bhavat tato vāyus

tvak sparśasya ca saṅgrahaḥ

[SB 3.26.35]



So everything is explained there one after another, subtle things, how changing from ether, this sound, sense perception. There is ether. In the space also, there is ether, and we can understand the presence of ether by sound. The sound is being produced on account of ether. And when it is further developed, it creates the sense perception of touch. Śabda, sparśa, then rūpa, rūpa, then gandha. In this way the material existence becoming tangible or visible... Rūpa is the last stage. Gandha, not rūpa, gandha. Rūpa, rasa, rasa. Then, when after sparśa there will be manifestation of rūpa, form, and after form there is taste, and after taste there is gandha. This will be explained one after another. You can read the purport also.



Nitāi: "In the course of time, when the subtle forms are transformed into gross forms, they become the objects of touch. The objects of touch and the tactile sense also develop after this evolution in time. Sound is the first sense object to exhibit material existence, and from the perception of sound, touch perception evolves, and from touch perception the perception of sight. That is the way of the gradual evolution of our perceptive objects."



Prabhupāda: You can read the next purport. Mṛdutvaṁ kaṭhinatvaṁ ca.



Nitāi: (leads chanting, etc. of verse 36) Translation: "Softness and hardness and cold and heat are the distinguishing attributes of touch, which is characterized as the subtle form of air."



Prabhupāda:



mṛdutvaṁ kaṭhinatvaṁ ca

śaityam uṣṇatvam eva ca

etat sparśasya sparśatvaṁ

*tan*-mātratvaṁ nabhasvataḥ

[SB 3.26.36]



*These are all different transformation of the ethereal existence. So in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. So our, these material pains and pleasure, are felt on account of this sparśa and arrangement of the ether and transformation of ethereal activities. Actually, it has nothing to do with the spirit soul. Spirit soul is untouched by all these thing. It requires simply realization. Great devotees like Bharata Mahārāja or Prahlāda Mahārāja, Haridāsa Ṭhākura, because they were very, very much advanced in spiritual consciousness, these ethereal activities on the external body did not touch them. Even in our Western world, Lord Jesus Christ, he was also crucified, but it did not touch him.



*So this is to be practiced, that we should not be disturbed by the ethereal transformation in touch with the skin and be disturbed in our regular activities in devotional service. That is called sthita*-prajña. In the... The word is used in the Bhagavad-gītā, sthita-prajña. So a devotee is sthita-prajña. He should not be disturbed by this material condition, or change of ethereal activities. We should be fixed up, ātma-stha, ātma-stha. And then our progress in spiritual life will be unhampered. Actually, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, ahaituky apratihatā.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



When we are firmly fixed up in devotional service, that is the highest transcendental form of religion.



*There are so many religious system*-Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion-but they are all material conception of religion. Material conception means that we are in this material world, and through a process or system we are trying to understand what is God. That is called religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. The attempt to understand God and His laws, that is religion. So it doesn't matter whether it is executed through a system called Hindu religion or a system called Muslim religion or a system called Christian religion. If the objective is the same, Adhokṣaja, then that process is first-class religion. If we simply stick to a system without making any progress towards the goal of understanding the Adhokṣaja, then it is śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*Don't be stuck up in a system. The system is required provided if you make progress towards the realization of the Supreme. But if you simply follow a system but do not make advance in the matter of realizing the Supreme, then, according to Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam or according to the Vedic version, it is simply labor of love. It has no value. Therefore Bhāgavata says, "That is first-class religion system." It doesn't matter you call it Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha. "That is first-class religion which helps you progressing in realization of the Adhokṣaja." Adhokṣaja, another name of Kṛṣṇa. Adhokṣaja means the subject matter which you cannot understand simply by mental speculation or by empiric knowledge, by exercising and empiric knowledge. That is called Adhokṣaja. Adhah-kṛtaṁ akṣa-jaṁ indriya-jñānaṁ yena.



*So adhok... We have to approach that Adhokṣaja. There are different stages of knowledge: pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprākṛta. So we have to approach the aprākṛta, transcendental, above the material nature. Adhokṣaja is almost nearer than the lower grade of knowledge, pratyakṣa, parokṣāparokṣa. They are in the kaniṣṭha*-adhikāra.

arcāyām eva haraye

pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ

[SB 11.2.47]



*So prākṛta stage is pratyakṣa knowledge, direct perception, and knowledge received from paramparā. Pratyakṣa, parokṣa, then aparokṣa, self*-realization, then adhokṣaja, aprākṛta. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is aprākṛta knowledge. It is the topmost platform of knowing Kṛṣṇa, aprākṛta knowledge. So, so long we are up to the adhokṣaja knowledge, that is regulative principles. We have to follow the regulative principles strictly. And aprākṛta knowledge is for the paramahaṁsa. There is... That is called rāga-bhakta. In these stages, pratyakṣa, parokṣa, they are called viddhi-bhakti. But without viddhi-bhakti, you cannot reach to the platform of rāga-bhakti, although that is our aim. Rāgānugā, rāga-bhakti is executed following the footprints of the devotees in Vṛndāvana. That is called rāga-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa's personal associates. Not to become directly Kṛṣṇa's personal associate, but following the footprints of Kṛṣṇa's eternal associates, we can come to the stage of rāga-bhakti. That is called parā-bhakti. That parā-bhakti is required.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is gradually developing up to the stage of rāga*-bhakti or parā-bhakti. Then life is successful. In that way we should not be disturbed by these ethereal interactions. As it is stated here, mṛdutvaṁ kaṭhinatvaṁ ca śaityam uṣṇatvam eva ca. We are disturbed by these things. Suppose we are lying on the floor. It is kaṭhinatvam: it is very hard. But if we given a cushion or a nice mattress, that is mṛdutvam. Similarly, śītoṣṇa. Water, sometimes it is felt very chilly, cold, and sometimes it is very hot. The water is the same; according to the change of ethereal arrangement, it is becoming in different position, different condition. And it is the source of pains and pleasure on account of this touch, the skin. The skin is touch. So if we understand fully that "I am not this body," that requires realization, ātmānubhūti.



*The more we become advanced in spiritual consciousness, the more we become situated in ātma*-stha. That is called sthita-prajña. Then we shall not be disturbed. And we should practice not to be disturbed by these conditional or ethereal transformation. We should. Because we do not belong, as spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I do not belong to this material arrangement, but I have been accustomed to this, so by practice I have to come to the spiritual status. And during practice it requires tolerance. That is called bhajana, sādhana, or tapasya, austerity, penance, tolerance. The things which we are not, but somehow or other, we have identified with such material things, and to practice again, come to the spiritual platform, that tolerance is called tapasya. This is the meaning of tapasya. Tapaḥ means pain, to voluntarily accepting some pain. Just like sannyāsa, kali-kara(?). In this age it is very difficult. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave us the example that He was lying down on the floor. His devotee wanted to give Him a quilt, a soft bedding, but He refused. He did not take it.

*So He is teaching us. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the teacher. Āpani ācari' prabhu jīvere śikhaila. But still, it is very difficult to strictly follow. But we must try to follow as far as possible. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore taught us, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. We must be tolerant like the trees or more than the tree. The trees, they are standing in the open air, and there are so many disturbances, storms, scorching heat, and somebody is taking the leaf, somebody cutting. It doesn't protest. Tolerance. This is very good example of tolerance. So in order to execute our spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we shall learn tolerance. Tolerance, that is advised in Bhagavad*-gītā, that tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "Don't be disturbed." Just like a brāhmaṇa or a sannyāsī has to take three times bath. And if it is very chilly cold, it does not mean that he will give up that taking bath three times, early in the morning. He must take. That is called tolerance. This is one of the example of tolerance. There is severe cold, chilly cold, but my duty is to take bath in the morning. So we must tolerate. I must tolerate that chilly cold, and still, I take my bath. This is called tapasya, not that "It is very chilly cold. I will not take my bath." No, that is not allowed. Then you are lagging behind. You must take. Of course, if it is very serious, somebody is seriously ill, that is different thing. Generally, Kṛṣṇa advises, tāṁs titikṣa... Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ, anityāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. Anitya. Anitya means they are not permanent. Āgamāpāyino 'nityāḥ. They are seasonal changes. They will come, and they will go. Simply ethereal arrangement only, we must know, external arrangement. It is, rather, illusion.

*External arrangement means illusion. We have nothing to do with it. But due to this Kali*-yuga especially, we are very much affected by these external disturbances. And that disturbances sometimes make us forced to forget our relationship with the Supreme, and that is called illusion. That is called māyā. But if we become very strictly adherent to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... That is very easily done at the Kali-yuga. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51]. If you strictly chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... That... It is especially prescribed for the men in this age. Then we become mukta-saṅga. Mukta-saṅga means although we are in this material world, we are not in touch with it. That is called mukta-saṅga. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. We remain untouched by the material contamination and gradually becoming perfect. Then we can be transferred to the spiritual world.

Our this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is pursuing, following the footstep of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*These are all according to Vedic injunction. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is not a manufactured way. This is actually following the Vedic principle. This is Agni*-Purāṇa, Brahmāṇḍa-Purāṇa, Brahma-vaivarta-Purāṇa, and Kali-santaraṇa-Upaniṣad. There are many Vedic literatures, they are recommended, this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Sometime it is said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare"; *sometime it is "Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare." So people become puzzled, which one should be first vibrated. So any one you can vibrate. Either you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Hare Rāma in the beginning, it doesn't matter. There is no difference between the holy name of Kṛṣṇa and Rāma. But still, there is some distinction. In the śāstra it is said that "If you chant one thousand times Lord Viṣṇu's name, that is equal to chanting one name of Lord Rāma." Sahasra, sahasra, Viṣṇu*-sahasra-nāma. And if you chant three times Lord Rāma's name, it is equal to one time chanting Kṛṣṇa's name. This is the shastric injunction.



So either you chant Viṣṇu name or Lord Rāma name or Lord Kṛṣṇa's name, there is no difference, as you are, because different people become devotee to different forms. Sometimes they are devotee of Lord Rāmacandra; *they want to worship Sītā*-Rāma. That is also good. Sometimes they want to worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. That is also good. And sometimes they want to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. That is also the same. There is no difference. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat [Bs. 5.39]. There are many manifestation of Viṣṇu-advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]-but the original manifestation or original Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Really, when we speak of Bhagavān, that is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa's expansion, they are also Bhagavān. And those who are very, very powerful like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, Nārada, and many other devotees and sages, they are also sometimes addressed as Bhagavān in the śāstra, but not ordinary men. Ordinary men cannot become Bhagavān. That is not possible. But everyone can become exalted devotee. Just like Nārada Muni. In his previous birth he was a maidservant's son, not even born in the brāhmaṇa family. But by good association of devotees he became next birth Nārada Muni, the spiritual master of so many exalted devotees. Nārada Muni's name we hear in connection with Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja, and many other devotees. And so everyone has the potency, just like Nārada Muni. So it doesn't matter where you were born. Nārada Muni was born as a maidservant's son, but by good association... Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. By good association, next life he became Nārada.

*So the sat*-saṅga is very important, association. Therefore we have named this, "Kṛṣṇa conscious society." Anyone can join it. It doesn't matter what he is. And actually, it is... Practically we are doing. We are collecting, recruiting members, from all parts of the world without any distinction. The distinction is there in the material platform. In the spiritual platform there is no such distinction. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. That is the vision of the devotees. They see only the spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Their sympathy is for the spirit soul, that "Here is a spirit soul, and he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. He is now bound up by this material bondage. Let me try to rescue him." Prahlāda Mahārāja said, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. They have become foolish. They are thinking that in material bondage he will be happy. That is not possible. Therefore Vaiṣṇavas like Prahlāda Mahārāja and his followers, they very seriously think of these fallen conditioned souls and try to rescue them, and in this Kali-yuga it is very easy. As I have already explained, kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ: "In this Kali-yuga it is a ocean of fault. So many faults are there, one after another, one after another. But there is one benefit," doṣa-nidhe asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ, "very great quality." What is that? Now, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet: "He hasn't got to do anything else. If he simply chants the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra," kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51], "then he becomes free from this material bondage and goes back to home, back to Godhead."

*So our only request is to everyone present here to chant this mahā*-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. Chant. (end)



750114SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.39

-

Bombay, January 14, 1975



Nitāi: "My dear mother, the characteristics of form are understood by dimension, quality and individuality. The form of fire is appreciated by its effulgence."



Prabhupāda:



dravyākṛtitvaṁ guṇatā

*vyakti*-saṁsthātvam eva ca

tejastvaṁ tejasaḥ sādhvi

*rūpa*-mātrasya vṛttayaḥ

[SB 3.26.39]



So little explanation is there. This is the transformation of the elements, how from sky, the air; from air, the fire; *fire, water. Everything in that proportion is explained by Sāṅkhya philosophy, how one after another, the form, taste, smell, touch are appreciated in different objects differently. Just like some eatable things-the form is appreciated by taste. The flower*-the form is estimated by its smelling, aroma. So that is being explained. You can read the purport.



Nitāi: "Every form that we appreciate has its particular dimensions and characteristics. The quality of a particular object is appreciated by its utility. But the form of sound is independent. Forms which are invisible can be understood only by touch; that is the independent appreciation of invisible form."



Prabhupāda: Just like the air. We cannot see, but we can touch. The air passes. It touches our body. We can understand, "Now the air is passing." Then?



Nitāi: "Visible forms are understood by analytical study of their constitution. The constitution of a certain object is appreciated by its internal action. For example, the form of salt is appreciated by the interaction of salty tastes, and the form of sugar is appreciated by the interaction of sweet tastes. Tastes and the qualitative constitution are the basic principles in understanding the form of an object."



*Prabhupāda: So actually, everything has got form, and there is-why not?*-the form of God also. He has got virāḍ-rūpa, and He has got small, also, rūpa. We have got experience of the virāḍ-rūpa in the Bhagavad-gītā. But that is not permanent rūpa. Permanent rūpa of Kṛṣṇa: Dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara. He has got two hands and playing on flute. That is permanent rūpa. Virāḍ-rūpa, as it was shown to Arjuna, it is called naimittika, "under certain conditions." That is not eternal rūpa. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta... Anādi, eternal.



The eternal rūpa is described in the śāstra,

*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



*The eternal form is veṇuṁ kvaṇantam. Kṛṣṇa is always playing on His flute. That is eternal form. His eternal pastimes and eternal form is in Vṛndāvana. He does not go anywhere personally, leaving Vṛndāvana. Padam ekaṁ na gacchati. He is always in Vṛndāvana, but at the same time, He is everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūtaḥ: [Bs. 5.37] "Although He is always in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, still, He is present everywhere." How He is present? Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.35]. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "He is situated in everyone's heart." He is situated in each and every universe. The universe is created by His breathing.



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*So the eternal form is Kṛṣṇa, but Viṣṇu, Mahā*-Viṣṇu, who is the origin of material creation, kalā-viśeṣa, He is the expansion of the plenary expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, Pradyumna. In this way He is present everywhere. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He is bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. Relativity. Now here we are small stature. So Kṛṣṇa is present in a stature so that we can touch Him, we can dress Him, we can decorate Him. Similarly, in other planets... It is relative. The law of relativity is going on everywhere. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān.



*So we have several times explained, bhakti means to engage all our senses in the service of the Lord. Our sense of seeing, eyes, nose, ears, tongue, hands, legs*-everything should be engaged for Kṛṣṇa's service. All different parts of the body can be engaged. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Kṛṣṇa can be served by all our senses according to the direction of the śāstra and guru-sādhu, śāstra, guru. Just like Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. He is devotee. We have to follow. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. The senses... The mind is the chief of the senses, and immediately under the mind, ten senses are working, ten: five knowledge-gathering senses, jñānendriya, and five working senses, karmendriya. And they have got different types of activities-hands, legs, tongue, ear, eyes. And above these, there is ahaṅkāra, false ego in the material world. The eleven senses, and the twelfth is the false ego. The false ego means I am thinking, "I am this body. I am body." Then expansion of body: "I belong to this family"; "I am the husband of this body"; "I am the father of this body"; "I am the brother of this body." Or "I belong to this nation"; "I belong to this species." This is called twelfth conception. It is different consciousness according to different body. And then "It is mine." With all these eleven senses, I form an idea of "I" and then my possession, "mine." Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Janasya moho 'yam. This is called illusion, māyā.

*So mind, it is expansion of the mind, different way. Mānasa*-vṛtti. This is called the characteristic of the mind. Then subtle action of mind: thinking, feeling, willing. And the mind is expanding in hundreds, thousands, millions of ideas. In this way I am becoming entangled. So when this mind is controlled... The yoga system is for that purpose. Those who are too much bodily concept of life, bodily consciousness, they should practice this yoga, haṭha-yoga, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, so that the mind can be purified. As soon as the mind is purified, then all this expansion into thousands and millions of ideas will be controlled, and the only idea will be Kṛṣṇa. This is called yoga system, concentrating. Dhyānāvasthita yogena paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. Dhyānāvasthita-manasā: "The mind is controlled, and the focus of the mind is on Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu." Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Then we can see the effulgence, and the localized, and then the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*So any system of yoga, either haṭha*-yoga, jñāna-yoga, or... Karma-yoga is in the lowest standard. And above all, bhakti-yoga. Then, when you come to the bhakti-yoga, that is the perfection of life. Bhakti-yogena manasi samyak praṇihite amale [SB 1.7.4]. Bhakti-yogena amala: "The mind becomes cleansed." Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is the effect of..., direct effect of bhakti-yoga, because the mind is now contaminated, and under the creation of senses and sense activities, we are making millions and trillions of ideas and become entangled in that idea. We have to accept millions and trillions of body and then go on in the cycle of birth, death, old age and disease. This is implication. So purify the mind. That is the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. When our mind is cleansed... This is mahā-dāvāgni. This expansion of mental ideas, thousands and millions, that is mahā..., bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. So it is the duty of guru to get out his disciple from the bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. Kāruṇya, kāruṇya.

So what is the guru? Guru has received the kāruṇya. Kāruṇya means just like the cloud has received water from the sea, similarly, a guru, spiritual master, receives the cloud of mercy from the ocean of kindness of Kṛṣṇa. Ghanāghanatvam. And it is only the cloud that can extinguish the forest fire, saṁsāra. No other watering system will be helpful. If there is fire in the forest, your fire brigade or buckets of water will not help. It is impossible. Neither you can go there; *neither you can render any service by your fire brigade and bucket. Then how the fire can be extinguished? Now, ghanāghanatvam. If there is cloud in the sky and if there is rainfall, then the expansive forest fire can immediately be extinguished. So that cloud is supposed to be the spiritual master. He pours water. He pours water. Śravaṇa*-kīrtana-jale karaye secana [Cc. Madhya 19.152]. What is that water? The water is this śravaṇa-kīrtana. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni, the fire, the forest fire of material existence, is blazing continually. So you have to extinguish it by the rainfall from cloud, and that rainfall means śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇa means hearing, and kīrtana means chanting. This is the only way. Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana.

*In this way Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised that harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. In this age, Kali-yuga, it is very difficult to perform the yoga system. This is also yoga, bhakti-yoga. Other yoga system is very difficult to execute. It is not possible. Even if it is possible*-it may be possible for one or two persons-but bhakti-yoga is so nice that even a small child can practice it. We see practically, the small children. They also taking part in it without any education, without any culture, without any knowledge, automatically chanting, dancing, taking caraṇāmṛta, offering respect to the Vaiṣṇava. Automatically it is becoming. And that makes his life successful. Bhakti-yoga is so nice. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even little bit practiced, it will never go in vain. It will be an asset. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. In this way... Just like if you put a one single paisa in the bank deposit, that is your money. It will be never lost. And when it becomes a lump sum, the bank asks you to... Credit you get, one hundred rupees or similar... Similarly, bhakti-yoga is so nice that whatever you acquire, intentionally or unintentionally, even if you neglectfully chant Hare Kṛṣṇa by imitating others, by joking others, it will have effect.

*There is a verse in Nṛsiṁha*-Purāṇa that one Muhammadan died calling hārāma. They say hārāma. Anything against their religion is called hārāma. So he was trapped by a boar, and the boars, the pigs, they... The Muhammadans, they call it hārāma. So when he was attacked, he said, hārāma. So hārāma. But it was taken as "Hā Rāma," "O Rāma," and he was liberated. So it is so nice. Some way or other, practice "Hā Kṛṣṇa, Hā Rāma." Then your life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750115SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.40

-

Bombay, January 15, 1975



Nitāi: "Fire is appreciated by its light and by its capacity to cook, to digest, to destroy cold, to evaporate, and to give rise to hunger, thirst, eating and drinking."



Prabhupāda:



dyotanaṁ pacanaṁ pānam

*adanaṁ hima*-mardanam

tejaso vṛttayas tv etāḥ

śoṣaṇaṁ kṣut tṛḍ eva ca

[SB 3.26.40]



*So people may be astonished, that "They are reading Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Why they are discussing the action and reaction of fire?" Generally, they think Bhāgavata reading means rāsa-pañcādhyāya, bas, immediately jump over to the rāsa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa. Actually to know God means to know everything in detail. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. That is the Vedic injunction. If we understand Kṛṣṇa, then we must understand also how Kṛṣṇa's different energies are working. That is called tattvataḥ. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. The other day I was reading Gandhi's discourses on Bhagavad-gītā. He said that "I can imagine any way Kṛṣṇa. I do not accept the historical Kṛṣṇa." In this way, so many things. He was a big man. He can say like that. But we cannot imagine or manufacture Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. That is not Kṛṣṇa. God is never imagined or speculated or manufactured by my limited knowledge and limited senses. That is not Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is everything. But if we want to know tattvataḥ Kṛṣṇa, in truth, how Kṛṣṇa has created the pañca-bhūta and how each bhūta or each material element is working, that is being discussed. This is perfect knowledge, tattvataḥ.



*So because they do not want to know Kṛṣṇa in tattvataḥ, factually, therefore they mistake Kṛṣṇa. Especially they attack Kṛṣṇa, that "He killed so many demons. He had rāsa*-līlā with so many gopīs. He married so many wives," misunderstand Kṛṣṇa. But if Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful, almighty, then what is difficulty for Him to marry 16,108 wife? Kṛṣṇa has many, many millions and millions of devotees. Some of them desiring to Kṛṣṇa..., to serve Kṛṣṇa as servant. Some of them are desiring Kṛṣṇa, to serve Him as friend or as father, as mother, as lover, as wife. So there are many devotees, ananta devotees, only not one or two. So Kṛṣṇa has to satisfy every one of them. That is not difficult for Him. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. There are so many millions and trillions of devotees. They are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa and desiring to serve Him in his different propensity, and Kṛṣṇa fulfills everyone's desire.

*So to understand Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa, to know about Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is like that. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. If you study just like here, analytical study of fire... Dyotanam, illumination; pacanam, digesting; *pānam, increasing thirst. If you don't feel thirsty, that means the agni, or the fire element within the stomach, is not working. Agni*-māndya. Māndya, the word comes from manda. Manda means slow. So the Ayurvedic treatment, they say it, agni-māndya. So when there is agni-māndya, there is medicine how to ignite the fire again. There is fire within the stomach, within the abdomen. Everything is there. So according to Ayurveda treatment, this kapha, pitta, vāyu. Vāyu... About the air we have discussed something in the previous verses. Now agni and then kapha, mucus. Mucus, bile, and fire.

*So to know Kṛṣṇa means know everything, because Kṛṣṇa is everything. How Kṛṣṇa is working in everything, even in different parts of our limbs, represented by demigods, they are all described. Even our eyelids moving under the direction of some demigod. And demigods, they are different parts and parcels, bodily limbs of whole Kṛṣṇa. So do not mind, "Why Bhāgavata is studying Kṛṣṇa so analytically?" That is required. If we understand Kṛṣṇa by analytical study, how His divine power is working throughout the whole universe, within the atom, within myself, within the movable, immovable, everywhere, antaryāmī... Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭim [Bs. 5.35]. Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. This universe, that is not one universe. We are in one of the universes. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described, "As there are many multimillions of mustard seed within a bag..." Just imagine. If you bring one bag of mustard seed, round, round. So that round, round seed, that each and every universe. So one devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Vāsudeva Datta, he prayed to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Sir, You have come. You deliver all these fallen souls, conditioned souls within the universe. Your kindness can do that. And if You think they are so sinful they cannot be delivered, then I am prepared to take all their sins. I shall remain here alone to suffer. You kindly deliver them." This is Vaiṣṇava desire. Vaiṣṇava is not selfish. He is... Vaiṣṇava's real qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī: he is unhappy by seeing others unhappy." Personally he has no unhappiness. Why he should be unhappy? He has got Kṛṣṇa. But as he has become happy by getting Kṛṣṇa, so he wants others also to become happy, and therefore he tries to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is called para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He knows that all these conditioned souls, they are, I mean to say, rotting in this material world and suffering. And the only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's a fact. Only remedy is. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra mano-'bhirāmāt.

*This was recommended by Śrīla Parīkṣit Mahārāja, the king. He said that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is bhavauṣadhi. Bhavauṣadhi means bhava. Bhava means this repeated birth and death. Bhava means you be and again you not be, not be for few months. Our death means a sleeping for seven months. That is the description we get from the śāstras. Just like you go on sleep every night, so death means to sleep for seven months, unconsciousness, very deep sleep, in the womb of the mother. Then, as soon as another body is grown up by the ingredients supplied by mother's body or nature, then we get back again consciousness. Just like when we sleep deeply, there is no consciousness. There is consciousness*-this is called suṣupti, unconscious. So again, as soon as the body is complete, then we get back our consciousness. Then we become in sleepy condition. Then again, when we come out of the mother's abdomen, that is awakening state. There are three states of conditions: jāgara, suṣupti, and svapna-dreaming condition, awakening condition, and unconscious or deep... Actually, we do not die. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. There is no question of death. It is simply sleeping or deep sleeping, like that.

*So if we keep Kṛṣṇa consciousness very active always, that means try to understand Kṛṣṇa from different angles of vision. Here also, as we are studying analytically the functions of agni, but what is this agni? This is also Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Anala. Anala means agni. Bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. They are not different from Kṛṣṇa. Just like sunshine: sunshine is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Whenever there is sun, wherever there is sun, there is sunshine. Similarly, wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa's energies are also there. Therefore Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu means all-pervading. So Kṛṣṇa's energies are spread everywhere, just like the illumination, dyotanam. It is called dyotanam, illumination. If the fire is there, there must be illumination. And you have seen in the morning-as soon as the sun, before the sun rising actually, before we can see the sun, immediately there is illumination, dyotanam. So the energy, sunshine, is the energy of the sun. it is always there. Sunshine is not differentiated from the sun. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's energy is not differentiated from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore fire is Kṛṣṇa's energy, air is Kṛṣṇa's energy, water is Kṛṣṇa's energy, land is Kṛṣṇa's energy, the sky is Kṛṣṇa's energy. This is Kṛṣṇa's all-pervasiveness or God's all-pervasiveness. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat: "Akhilam, the entire universe, is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy."

*Therefore in the advanced stage of devotional life a devotee does not see fire. He sees Kṛṣṇa. A devotee does not see air, but he sees Kṛṣṇa. A devotee does not see sky, but he sees Kṛṣṇa. Sarvatra haya nija iṣṭa*-deva-sphūrti. Iṣṭa-deva. Kṛṣṇa is the worshipable Deity of the devotee. So immediately, he sees anything, because he knows it is Kṛṣṇa's energy... Just like we, generally, as soon as we see in the morning light, we can understand there is sun, immediately. There is no delay. "Now there is sun." The sun may not be visible immediately, but because the darkness is gone and there is light, although glimpse light, now we understand this is morning, and now there is sun. Similarly, a advanced devotee, because he knows everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy... So this is energy study. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: [Bg. 7.8] "Apsu, in the water, the taste I am," because every one of us becomes thirsty and we take water. And actually it is so; the taste of water is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise who can give taste unless Kṛṣṇa is there? Now take. There are big, vast water in front of Bombay. Now change the taste. Then there is no need of acquiring water from here and there, bringing big, big pipes. No. You take and change the taste, salty taste, and making drinkable. No. That you cannot unless Kṛṣṇa does it. Therefore the taste is Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult to understand.

*So if we study in this way, analytically, everything, Kṛṣṇa's energy... Śaśi*-sūryayoḥ. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the illumination of the sun and the moon." So you can create by... Scientists, they say the sun is combination of so many chemicals. Now you create one sun and illuminate the whole universe. That you cannot do because that is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot create Kṛṣṇa. You cannot imagine Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Foolish persons, they may say, "Kṛṣṇa is my imagination." No, He's not imagination. He's fact. Simply one has to know how Kṛṣṇa is present in everything. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.

raso 'ham apsu kaunteya

*prabhāsmi śaśi*-sūryayoḥ

*praṇavaḥ sarva*-vedeṣu

śabdaḥ khe pauruṣaṁ nṛṣu

[Bg. 7.8]



*So there is list of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Don't say that "We have not seen God. Can you show me God?" Why don't you see? The God says, "I am here," but why don't you see? God says, "I am the taste of water." So when you drink water, why don't you see God in the taste? He is visible in every step. Every working of this nature, He is doing that. Simply we have to make our eyes to see. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything is there, present. Kṛṣṇa, God, is present everywhere. Aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Kṛṣṇa is present here. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. But when you learn the art to see Him within your heart, that is called mystic yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1].

*The yogic process is to see Kṛṣṇa within the heart. That is real yoga. That is real yoga system. Try to see Kṛṣṇa within the heart. Then you first*-class yogi. That is the perfection of topmost yogic process.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*If you can learn how to see Kṛṣṇa within the heart always, twenty*-four hours, then your life is successful. That is perfection of life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how you can learn to see Kṛṣṇa within your heart, within other's heart, and everywhere. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. This is wanted.



So this is possible by increasing our love for Kṛṣṇa. Simply we have to increase our love. Just like in practical life also, we begin to love somebody, one after another, gradually, not all of a sudden, similarly, we have to increase our love for Kṛṣṇa. That love for Kṛṣṇa is the devotional process.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*Then surrender. That is the ultimate state of loving affairs, surrender. Why one should surrender to another person unless there is love? Just like wife surrenders to husband and husband protects the wife. This is general duty. So why one man is interested with one woman for giving her all protection, and why one man is surrendered to..., one woman is surrendered to one man? What is the basic principle? The basic principle is love. So similarly, our full surrender, full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can be achieved when we develop our love for Kṛṣṇa little by little, little by little, and then come to the perfection. When we come to the perfection, then we cannot live without Kṛṣṇa. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us. In the last stage of His life He exhibited such manifestation of love that He was dying without Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda*-viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitam. Śūnyāyitam, everything is vacant. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. "Without Govinda, I see everything vacant." Sometimes we have got experience. If we lose a friend, a son, at that time, everything becomes vacant without my son, without my lover. That is practical. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was exhibiting that type of love for Kṛṣṇa, that He was feeling that "Without Kṛṣṇa, everything is void." Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. This He taught personally, how to raise oneself to the topmost stage of love for Kṛṣṇa. That is the ultimate aim and object of life. Premāñ... [break] ...yaṁ śyāma-sundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. To see Kṛṣṇa within the heart always, how... (end)





750116SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.41

-

Bombay, January 16, 1975



Nitāi: "By the interaction of fire and the visual sensation, the subtle element taste evolves under a superior arrangement. From taste, water is produced, and the tongue, which perceives taste, is also manifested."



Prabhupāda:



*rūpa*-mātrād vikurvāṇāt

*tejaso daiva*-coditāt

*rasa*-mātram abhūt tasmād

*ambho jihvā rasa*-grahaḥ

[SB 3.26.41]



*How water is manufactured, that is explained here. The modern scientists, they speak of manufacturing water by combination of two gases: hydrogen, oxygen. May be true to certain extent. But from Vedic literature we understand that by the interaction of form and touch through the agency of fire maybe there is perspiration. Just like when our body becomes too much heated, there is perspiration, the water comes out, similarly, the same process we get the water, ambu. And as soon as there is water there is jihvā, the sense of touch, rasa*-graha, which can taste. Jihvā is meant for tasting. So this is the way of physical manifestation of different ways. But on the background there is daiva-codita. Everything is coming into existence on account of superior management or superior impelling. That is the main proposition, that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ [Bg. 9.10]. These things we..., physical transformation, different ways, we experience. That is the phenomenal world. But these things are taking place not automatically but daiva-coditāt, by superior intervention, impelled by the superior Personality of Godhead.



*So as we explained last night, every action and reaction is being completed by the superior person, Kṛṣṇa. But He has got so multi*-energies that He does not require... Just like we have to see so many things personally. Just like in this management of our institution sometimes we have to take personal care: "How this is being managed?" Because we have to see there may not be any discrepancies in the service of the Lord. That is our duty. But entirely, if we depend on Kṛṣṇa, things will go on. But we have to depend in that way. He has got such fine machinery. The first thing is that He is seated in everyone's heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. So He can give instruction to perform the respective duties-but provided there is another thing, personal consideration. The chance is given to the personal living being to take this chance but not misuse your little independence. Chance is given everyone. And Kṛṣṇa's another business is: He does not interfere with the little independence given to the living being. So he must voluntarily surrender his little independence. Does not..., Kṛṣṇa does not force; *Kṛṣṇa desires, He orders, that "You do this." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But He does not interfere with the little independence. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy, how He can do that. Kṛṣṇa is not like us, that I give you something and again I ask you to return it. No. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has given to us, that is permanent.

*So He has given us little independence because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. He does not depend on anyone. But although we have got independence to a certain extent, but under the control of māyā. In the spiritual life there is also māyā. That is called yoga*-māyā. And in the material life there is also māyā. That is called mahā-māyā, Durgā. So we, being very little... Just like small children. He is given either to the mother for taking care or to the nurse for taking care. The little child must be taken care of, either by the mother or an appointed nurse, maidservant. Similarly, we being very tiny, small, fragmental, atomic part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, although we have got all the ingredients of Kṛṣṇa, still, we require protection. Just like the child and the father. The child possesses all the chemical composition of the father's body. Even if the father is diseased, the child inherits the disease also. This is a fact. Similarly, we have got all the ingredients or qualities of God in us. But in many..., in very, very small fragmental portions. Therefore, although we have got Kṛṣṇa's qualities, still, we sometimes fall down. Because is very, very minute, fragmental, there is chance of being covered by something else.

*So we require protection. Therefore, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. The mahātmā, they are also given protection by daivī*-prakṛti, Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Therefore we chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa," not alone "Kṛṣṇa." Harā is Kṛṣṇa's energy, so we first of all take the shelter of Kṛṣṇa's energy, daivī-māyā, Rādhārāṇī. In Vṛndāvana they chant "Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa," "Jaya Rādhe." The general addressing is "Rādhe," like that. So to take shelter of the daivī-māyā... Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. If we take shelter of the daivī-māyā, Rādhārāṇī, then She will give us intelligence in such a way that we can take shelter of Kṛṣṇa perfectly. So daivī-māyā āśritāḥ, as soon as we become under the shelter of daivī-māyā, then our business becomes bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ, simply serving Kṛṣṇa, no other business. And in the material world so long we are under the protection of mahā-māyā we have got many things to serve. Bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām. When we are under the care of daivī-māyā, then our only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our original constitutional position, Kṛṣṇa-dāsa. As we have several times given this example, the part and parcel of my body, the finger, it is always serving the whole body according to the order, similarly, as part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa, our only business is to serve Him. Whatever we have got in possession...

*Now it is explained by Kapiladeva, how things are developing, everything. This evening we were discussing. Here it is said that jihvā ambhaḥ. They are coming out by interaction of touch sensation, the fire. In this way everything is emanating. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. This is the real science. Everything is coming from Him. So whatever we possess, the physical transformation, the gross body and the subtle mind, intelligence, everything is produced from the original source, Kṛṣṇa. So same thing, when it is utilized by clear understanding, that "Everything is emanation from Kṛṣṇa. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So let us utilize it for Kṛṣṇa's service," then we are situated in the daivī*-māyā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. This is daivī-prakṛti. And the result is bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ: "Without any deviation they are engaged, the devotees are engaged, in Kṛṣṇa's service." That is the perfection of life. And in this life, so long we are in material condition, we are practicing how to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service twenty-four hours. And when it is perfection... Tataḥ, tattvato jñātvā.

*Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa or if anyone wants to understand Kṛṣṇa perfectly, tattvataḥ, in truth, then he has to understand it through bhakti, not any other process, although there are many other processes, different ways. Some so-called philosophers, they say that "We can adopt any process. It leads to the same goal." That's all right, provided you make progress. Then you'll reach to the same goal. But if you become stuck up with the process only, you do not make progress, then it does not lead to the same goal. Just like one staircase going to the fourth floor. So you cross, say, twenty-five steps. You are in a certain position. If you cross fifty steps, you are in a certain position. If you cross sixty steps... In this way, the final may be hundred steps. So unless you go to the hundredth step, the final position is not attained, although it is leading to the same goal. Therefore we have to make progress. From karma-kāṇḍa we have to learn what is the actual position of karma-kāṇḍa, why we are engaged in karma-kāṇḍa. That is called jñāna. Then, coming to the jñāna-kāṇḍa, then you come to the upāsanā-kāṇḍa. Then upāsanā-kāṇḍa, when you reach the highest, topmost upāsanā... Upāsanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param. When you become Vaiṣṇava, when you worship Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, that is the perfectional stage.

*So mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ. Everyone is going to the same goal, but he has to make further progress. Don't think, "By karma*-kāṇḍa we have come to the final stage," or "By jñāna-kāṇḍa, we can, we have come to the final stage," or "By upāsanā-kāṇḍa, by worshiping demigods, we have come to the final stage." No. The final stage, you can come directly by bhakti, the topmost upāsanā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says directly, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. So bhakti process is śravaṇam beginning. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. So we have to hear these subject matters described in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then we will understand how Kṛṣṇa is conducting this phenomenal world. That you have to learn by hearing. Why this Bhāgavatam is there? For... Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyaḥ. The Vaiṣṇava will enjoy, will learn from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam how Kṛṣṇa is working in everything. That will enlighten the devotee that how Kṛṣṇa is great, by His different energies how He is working in every field of activities. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He is present here, Kṛṣṇa. He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Everything is ready. Either automatically or in order to accept service from the devotee, He is assuming that "I am dependent on you. If you dress Me, then I can be dressed." But actually that is not the fact. He is dressing Himself by giving you intelligence. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. Those who are desirous to serve Him, then Kṛṣṇa gives him intelligence how to serve Him. He does not depend on your service. He's quite self-sufficient. But He assumes that "I am a statue of stone. I cannot dress Myself. Please dress Me." This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy, to give you chance. He does not depend on you. Na tasya kār... There are many energies. Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by many, many goddess of fortune. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. So He doesn't require our service. But He agrees. He is so kind that He agrees to come here to accept our service. Therefore we must be very careful, that "Kṛṣṇa has kindly consented to come here to accept our service. Now we may not do something which is not satisfactory to Him." That is devotion. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Always full of veneration. Don't think that "Here is a statue." Here is Kṛṣṇa.

*So Kṛṣṇa is ready to accept our service in so many ways. Either if you cannot establish Deity, then you simply hear about Him. That is the most important thing. We do not require to establish temple everywhere. If there is possible to establish temple and serve Kṛṣṇa properly according to the regulation mentioned in the śāstras or instructed by the spiritual master, that is called vaidhī-bhakti. Vaidhī-bhakti. Vaidhī-bhakti means discharging devotional service under regulative principles. So without vaidhī-bhakti, you cannot jump to the rāga-bhakti. Rāga-bhakti is spontaneous. That does not require any regulative principles. Out of love, out of feeling anyone wants to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is called..., that is gopīs. All the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they did not undergo any regulative principles. But spontaneously, they are always ready to serve God, Kṛṣṇa. That is called rāga-bhakti. Just like to... The example... There are examples. Just like a mother, as soon as there is child, baby, she takes care. She takes care. Although she does not go to a school how to take care of a child, but automatically. Automatically she takes care. Similarly, this automatically serving Kṛṣṇa, that is called rāga-bhakti. That is reached by vaidhī-bhakti, by practicing. Just like formerly there was marriage, child marriage*-a small boy, a small girl. But simply by association the girl understands how to serve the husband and the husband also understand how to give protection to the wife, and mostly, the life was very pleasing, happy. From the very beginning she knows, "Here is my husband," and he knows, "Here is my wife." At least we have seen in our India. There is no question of separation. There is no question of divorce. The love is there from the very beginning. The propensity was there and immediately the object of love is there. A girl has got husband; a husband has got a wife. So the love continues spontaneously.

*So from the very beginning of our life we should try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love Kṛṣṇa. Then automatically it becomes manifest. That is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. Kaumāra. Kaumāra means up to tenth year, five to tenth year. According to somebody, even up to fifteenth year. Anyway, during this period of life one should learn how to develop this devotional cult, dharmān bhāgavatān. Dharma means the laws and the instruction given by God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. And when that is actually executed directly between, transaction between God and the devotee, that is real dharma. Dharmān bhāgavatān. They have different types of dharmas, but real dharma is bhāgavata-dharma, what we learn from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, to deal with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavān. That is called bhāgavatān. So children should be instructed from the very beginning of their life this bhāgavata-dharma. We are attempting to do that in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got an institution, Gurukula, at Dallas, Texas, and they are learning very nicely. Just like this child. From the very beginning he is learning bhāgavata-dharma. He is offering obeisances, he is chanting, he is dancing, he is offering a flower to the spiritual master, and he is offering to the Vaiṣṇavas. In his childish way, while playing, he is becoming accustomed to dharmān bhāgavatān. This is really, really human civilization, from the very beginning of life. Because if we want, we can learn like cats and dog, jumping and eating and sleeping and mating. No. That is not the business of the human life.

*Prahlāda Mahārāja therefore says, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. "Why? Why bhāgavata*-dharma so important that I have to learn from the beginning of my life?" Now, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam: "This human life is very rarely obtained, durlabham." Dur means "very difficult." After many, many births, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], this human form, after evolution, we have got. Durlabham, with great difficulty we have got it. That, why it is important? Now it is arthadam. Arthadam. Artha means meaningful or riches or something wealth. Arthadam, you can achieve arthadam. So that arthadam, although adhruvam... You can say, "What is the difference between human life and dog's life? They are all temporary. Why you are giving so much stress on human life, the same business: eating, sleeping, sex life, and defense? So why you are giving more importance to the human life?" Now, arthadam. Yad apy adhruvam, nonpermanent, it is arthadam. Arthadam means to achieve the goal of your life. So we should not misuse it. We should teach our children to become bhāgavatam, person bhāgavatam, by reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*So we are teaching from the very beginning Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and they are learning. That is the way. If you simply learn Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you get so much knowledge how things are developing, how tongue is developing, how the taste is developing, how touch is developing, how fire is working, how heat is working; *from the interaction of heat and touch, how things are devel... Everything is explained there. Physical and spiritual, everything is there. So this is bhāgavata*-dharma, to study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam very carefully. Everything is... Every knowledge is there. Kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ. There is no need of reading any other book. Kiṁ vā paraiḥ, in the beginning it is said. Why? Sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate īśvaraḥ. The perfection of life is to understand God. So by reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sadyaḥ, immediately, hṛdy avarudhyate īśvaraḥ: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, by simply reading Bhāgavatam... He is already there, but immediately He is realized." That is perfection of life.

*So Bhāgavata is so powerful that nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā: we have to read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam daily and twenty-four hours. That is the injunction: nityam. Nityam means always. So our members especially, I mean to say, those who are inmates, they, and those who are becoming members, ordinary member or patron member, we are giving them books. Please read them carefully. Don't take books that "I am member. It is my duty to take books and keep it in the almirah." No. Read it thoroughly. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. By regular reading of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then our this material contamination becomes vanquished. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. As soon as it begins to diminish, then it will diminish finally, and then you will be situated in your pure, original constitutional position, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhakti-yogataḥ. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ [SB 1.2.20]. By cleansing the heart we become prasanna-manasaḥ, very jubilant. Bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ. Therefore this bhāgavata-dharma should be practiced from the very beginning of life, and it should be studied. We have got so many books. One can read... Whatever already we have got, books, one can read for fifty years continually and get new enlightenment one after another.

*So bhāgavata means the complete knowledge. Bhāgavata, from bhagavān it is called bhāgavata. From bhagavat-śabda it is called bhāgavata. So in the association of bhāgavata, devotees, if we read Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam... Sajātīya snigdhasya. Sajātīya means people thinking in the same way. So that means devotees who are interested in bhagavad-bhakti, to understand Bhagavān, they should read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the association. We should have regular classes. Just like school and colleges, eight hour, six hour. Be engaged always in reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, discussing amongst yourself. Then you'll make progress. Otherwise, if you take it as an official routine work... You should take as routine work, but with consciousness that "We have to learn something," not simply attending the class, but to learn something. In this way make your life successful. Because after all, everything is being done, daiva-coditāt, impelled by the Supreme Person. The Supreme Person is behind everything. So in the association of devotees, if we read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam regularly, then your, our, material contamination will be dissolved, and our spiritual consciousness will come out, and that will make our life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750117SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.42

-

Bombay, January 17, 1975



Nitāi: "Although originally one, taste becomes manifold as astringent, sweet, bitter, pungent, sour and salty due to contact with other substances."



Prabhupāda:



kaṣāyo madhuras tiktaḥ

kaṭv amla iti naikadhā

bhautikānāṁ vikāreṇa

rasa eko vibhidyate

[SB 3.26.42]



*Rasa, taste, is one, but it becomes varieties by different combination of bhautikānām, material elements. This is chemistry. Chemistry means mixing of different chemicals and produce another element. Just like soap. Soap is mixture of fat and soda. So fat, oil, is something else, and soda is another thing, but if you carefully mix them together, it becomes soap. So the whole world is the mixture of these five elements: kṣitir āp... Fire, water... Tejo*-vāri-mṛd-vinimayaḥ. The Sanskrit word is tejo-vāri-mṛd-vinimayaḥ. Mṛd means this earth, and tejas means fire, and vāri means water. You take earth mixed with water and put it into the fire; it becomes brick. Then you take another mixture; that becomes cement. And take the help of cement and take the help of brick; then construct a house.



*So whole material world is nothing but tejo-vāri-mṛd-vinimayaḥ, exchange of, elementary, this earth, water, and fire. The same principle here also: taste. Just like we cook the same oil, ghee, and salt and turmeric, but we prepare different preparations, hundred, two hundred preparation, simply by the process of mixing earth. So that is going on. Now, by Kṛṣṇa's energy... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. His energy is working in such subtle way, mysterious way. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is known as Yogeśvara. The same earth, same water, but the seed different. So one tree is coming to produce chili, another tree is coming out to produce tomato, another tree is coming out to produce mango. Different taste. Mango is sweet, tomato is sour, chili is pungent. But these things are required, varieties. Although the source is one. Source is one*-the earth-but the earth contains all other five elements. Kṣitir āp tejo vāri mṛd vyoma. Everything is there in the earth. Everything is there, and by the expert handling of the prakṛti and behind the prakṛti, Kṛṣṇa, varieties of things are coming. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how things are coming by the handling, expert handling of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10].

The blunt scientists, they are seeing, simply prakṛti is the cause of these varieties. But that is not the fact. The fact is it is the Kṛṣṇa's manipulation, mixture, mixing of the elements, and different varieties are coming out. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Śrūyate. You cannot see how Kṛṣṇa is handling, but śrūyate, you can understand from the śruti, by the Vedic literature, as it is said here.

kaṣāyo madhuras tiktaḥ

kaṭv amla iti naikadhā

bhautikānāṁ vikāreṇa

raso eko vibhidyate



*Bhautikānāṁ vikāreṇa. Just like earth, water, fire, air, they are bhautika. But they are not mixing together. The original, I mean to say, manipulator is Kṛṣṇa. Just like we have got experience, I have given just now experience, that oil is there. Suppose oil is acid, and soda is called alkali. The acid is there, alkali is there, but when a person comes, mix it proportionately, it becomes another product: soap. Similarly, everything is being manufactured like that, but how it is done? That is the expert handling of the Supreme Lord. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He has got multi*-energies, subtle laws, and He is working. But still, He has nothing to do Himself. That is God. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Although He is handling... He is doing everything. Otherwise how it is possible? We have got experience. There is oil, and there is alkali, or soda, but they are not mixing together. For mixing together, you require another, living energy. Otherwise, automatically, there cannot be soap. The soap factory is there, but the manufacturer is also there.



*So we have to understand in that way, that so many varieties, natural varieties, are coming out not automatically. The blind scientists, they say they are coming automatically. That is not very good sense. Nothing can come automatically. Matter cannot come together automatically. There is some machine or handling. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva. He is doing that, and still, He is doing nothing. That is... Just like if I have to make soap, I have to do it or I can ask my servant to do it. I can give instruction to my assistant, servant, that "Do like this." So anyway, the background is myself. The background is neither the servant nor the ingredients. There is another example: the potter's wheel. Potter's wheel is producing earthen pots. So what is the cause? Somebody will say that "The dirt, earth, is the cause of this pot because it is made of earth." Another will say, "No, the cause is the wheel. Because the wheel is going around, therefore it is coming out." But these two causes, prakṛti and pradhāna, ingredients and the instrument, they are not causes. The cause is the potter. Cause is the potter. The potter is giving force going around. You have seen it. With the rod it moves like that. When the wheel is in motion, then the earth is brought into a shape of different shape of pots. Therefore material cause, remote cause, efficient cause*-they are not cause. Real cause is Kṛṣṇa, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So that is confirmed in the Vedic literature, Upaniṣad. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. His energy is working-the same earth, the same seed, ingredient of the seed. There is variety of the seed also. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām: [Bg 7.10] "I am the seed, seedling." The same process: there is a seed of rose tree, you put into the earth and pour water*-a rose tree will come out. And similarly, looking another, chili seed, but it will come chili. The earth is the same; *water is the same. Just like on the riverside there are many trees. Their eatable is the same water, standing in the same earth, but different trees are coming out. Different taste fruit, different flower, different, all different. So therefore, the difference is there in the seed. So you cannot understand. You cannot chemically analyze the seed, small seed, but the potency is so strong, so you cannot study by your so*-called physical or chemical science.



*So we have to understand, as Kṛṣṇa says, bījo 'haṁ sarva*-bhūtānām: "I am the seed." Such subtle things, how it is coming out? In the small seed what is the chemical composition? You put the seed, sow the seed, anywhere and put little water, that tejo-vāri-mṛd-vinimayaḥ, but the things are coming out differently. How the variety is possible? Therefore we cannot mix up. There is rose scent within the earth. Otherwise wherefrom the rose is getting its scent? There is. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. Pṛthivyām, on this earth, there are potency of different flavor, different taste. Now let the chemist come and take the earth and make different taste. That is not possible. That is not... Therefore you cannot simply say that prakṛti is the cause of everything, no. Prakṛti is there, the same water. Prakṛti means earth, water, air, fire. The same water is there, the same fire is there, same water is there, and same earth is there. So why varieties are coming? You take from the water, from the earth, varieties of smell, varieties of taste. So that you cannot do. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa, as He says, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām: [Bg 7.10] "I am the cause." And the śāstra confirms it, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam: [Bs. 5.1] "He is the original cause of everything."

*So in this way we have to study everything, and ultimately, if we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa, then our knowledge is perfect. Otherwise it is imperfect. Kavibhir nirūpito yad*-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

*sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi*-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

*yad*-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

[SB 1.5.22]



You are scientist, very good. You are botanist, you are physist, and so many, mathematist, and so on, so on. Because these things, laws are going on. People are studying the laws of mathematics, laws of physics, laws of chemistry, laws of botany, biology. Divide into different departmental scientific knowledge. So that, do that, very good. Become, very big scientist, very big botanist. Similarly, from other point of view, pious activities, you become very noble, a man of charity or tapasya or austerities, penance, so many things in the spiritual line, jñāna, yoga, karma. That's all right. As you deal with material science, you become big mathematician, chemist, physician, or lawyer, or so many, naturalist. Similarly, spiritually, you become karmī, jñānī, yogī. Do that. That is not discouraged. But what for you are trying? Why you are trying to become a chemist or physist or a man of charitable disposition, educationist? Why? If I ask... If anybody asks, "Why you try to become a scientist? What is the aim of your life?" What will be the answer, possible answer? The materialist will say, "For developing civilization." Developing civilization means to, in their view, developing the process of sense gratification. That's all. But śāstra says, "No, not that. That is not the aim. You become a great scientist. There is no harm. But why you should become a scientist?"



*Now, śāstra says that avicyutaḥ arthaḥ. Arthaḥ means purpose. If somebody asks, "What is the purpose of becoming scientist? What is the purpose of becoming physicist?" so different men will give different answers: "It is meant for this purpose. It is meant for this purpose." But kavibhiḥ, those who are actually learned, advanced learning, they have said that avicyuta. Avicyuta means without any failure, without any contradiction. You say that chemistry is required for this purpose. I say chemistry is required for this purpose. Another man says chemistry is required for this purpose. But difference of opinion. That is not accepted. Avicyuta, infallible purpose. What is that infallible purpose? Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. Nirūpita means it is already settled. You haven't got to make research anymore. Nirūpita means it is already concluded. What is that? Yad*-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. If you can explain the activities of Kṛṣṇa, Uttamaśloka, how He is acting, how is the chemical process is going on under His direction, if you can write a thesis on this subject matter, that ultimately Kṛṣṇa is behind that, then your this study of chemistry is perfect. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. Nirūpita means it is concluded. No more argument. That is the purpose. That means if you are intelligent enough actually, then through any source of knowledge you come ultimately to Kṛṣṇa. That mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. The Kṛṣṇa says. But if by your education, if you come to the same point, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is in the background, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], cause of all causes," then that education is perfect. Otherwise it is śrama eva hi kevalam. Otherwise it is simply laboring for nothing, waste of time. This is the purpose. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam.

*So parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Very, very big chemistry, physical laws, mathematics*-everything is required to understand the potency of God, how He is working. Actually, everything is being done by His potency. Here the different tastes, the material is the same, but the method of mixing the material and different tastes are coming out in existence-so how that expertly management of mixing is going on, if we can explain by our chemistry, by our mathematics, then our studying of chemistry is perfect. Then we are perfect. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā [SB 1.5.22]. Another place,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*Hari*-toṣaṇam is the ultimate goal. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ vindati mānavaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. You become a chemist; *it doesn't matter. You become physicist, mathematician. It doesn't matter. Unfortunately, due to the Kali*-yuga, as soon as one become a big chemist, doctor of chemistry, he says, "I am God. There is no need of God." As soon as the little... Svapari jala-matrena phala phariyate.(?) You'll see the small fishes. They are practically on the edge of the water and making, "fut, fut, fut." The big fishes, they are down the water. So these so-called material chemists, they are nothing, a small fish. Those who are big chemist, big scientist... Just like Professor Einstein. He used to accept how God's brain is working. He appreciated. He was a great scientist. And the ordinary scientist also, they think that "Now we are able to do everything without God. Therefore we are bigger than God." That is not fact. You are greater scientist when by your scientific knowledge you prove the existence of God and how He is working so finely that varieties of things are coming out of material nature. That is the perfection of knowledge. Otherwise svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Hari-toṣaṇam. Unless Kṛṣṇa sees that you are trying to glorify Him by your knowledge... Then He becomes satisfied, that "I have given him some knowledge, and he is utilizing this knowledge for My glorification. He is My devotee."



Devotee's business is to glorify. He doesn't take any credit for himself. Actually, there is nothing to be taken credit. The all credit goes to Kṛṣṇa. A devotee neither claims; *neither it is possible. Even he may be very, very big devotee, he will never claim any credit for his glorious activities. His glorious activities means to make Kṛṣṇa glorious. That is his glorious activities, not that like the so*-called materialist, he takes, wants to take the credit. No. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ vindati mānavaḥ [Bg. 18.46]. Sva-karmaṇā. You may be engaged in any pattern of work, any department of work. But by dint of your work you establish the existence of God, Kṛṣṇa, and whatever is being done, it is being done by the expert management of Kṛṣṇa. The sun is rising exactly in the time, and it is setting exactly in the time. And the temperature, according to the different season, the movement, uttarāyaṇa, dakṣiṇāyana-everything is managed so expertly under the order of the Supreme. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ [Bg. 9.10]. Don't think the sun is working so nicely automatically. No automatically. The master is there, Kṛṣṇa. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. The sun is so powerful substance within this universe. There are many millions of suns. This is one sun only-but it is carrying out the order of Kṛṣṇa. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited light, unlimited fire, unlimited heat. Aśeṣa. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ. There is no comparison with the sunlight, sun's heat. There is no comparison within this universe. Unlimited. For millions and millions of years it is, from the sun the light and heat is coming out, but there is no diminution. It is the same as it was millions of years ago, and after giving you light and heat for millions of years, the same quantity of light and heat is still there.

So if it is possible for a material thing that after giving unlimited heat and light it remains the same, similarly, the Supreme Lord, by expanding His potency, by His energy, He remains the same. He does not diminish. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. So if we can see even a material object that the heat being emanated for many millions and millions..., it remains the same heat, it maintains the same heat, same light, why it is not possible for the Supreme? Therefore *Īśopaniṣad* informs us that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate. If you take the whole energy of Kṛṣṇa from Kṛṣṇa, then still, the whole energy is there. But you will be surprised nowadays. Modern Gods... There are so many modern Gods; I do not wish to name. But one modern God, he gave his power to his disciple, and the, when he came into consciousness, then he was crying. The disciple inquired from the guru, "Why you are crying, sir?" "Now I have finished everything. I have given you everything. I have given you everything; therefore I am now finished." That is not spiritual. That is material. I have got hundred rupees. If I pay you hundred rupees, then my pocket is empty. But Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Kṛṣṇa can make hundreds of thousands and millions of Kṛṣṇa; still, He is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. The potency is never exhausted. That is called pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation].

So this imitation God will not help us. The real God. Real God,

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam, He never exhausts. He is never exhausted. It is said that,



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*The millions of universes are coming out within His breathing period, and again they are annihilated when the breathing is taken inside. In this way the universes are coming out. Jagad*-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Jagad-aṇḍa means the universe, and nātha, the Lord of the universe, means Lord Brahmā. So he has got a duration of life. And what is that duration of life? The breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu.



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*That is God, that by breathing, unlimited number of universes are coming out and going in. And the duration of existence of each and every universe is the duration of life of Brahmā. That we cannot calculate. Even we cannot calculate his twelve hours. So that is God. We accept such kind of God, not a little magician. No. That is not possible. We cannot accept such cheap gods. We accept Kṛṣṇa, the sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], and we want to be eternal servant. That is our actual position. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. By His unlimited potency, energy, unlimited universes are coming out with unlimited number of varieties of planet, and each planet is differently situated, different atmosphere, different temperature. So in this way varieties. That is ānanda. Kṛṣṇa has created these varieties because He is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānandamaya. Unless there is variety...



*So we are part and parcel of that variety*-maker. We are also one of the varieties, jīva-śakti. We are also one of the varieties. So how we can become variety-less, nirviśeṣa? That is not possible. Even artificially we try to become nirviśeṣa, variety-less, our constitutional position is that we want variety. How it can be stopped? Therefore in the śāstra it is said, the so-called Māyāvādī, impersonalist, monist, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32], although they get up to the position of oneness, monist, but from that position they fall down. Why? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because they have no information of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, where to enjoy ānanda, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), and they are by nature seeking after ānanda, this so-called oneness, monism, that will not please them. They will require again ānanda. But because anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, they have not worshiped Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, they come down again in this material world and worship the feet of māyā. That is their position. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. And as soon as you are engaged in the service of māyā, that is your adhaḥ patanti. Adhaḥ patanti. As we, all these materialistic person who are within this material, you are serving māyā... Everyone is serving. Nobody is without serving. But they are serving māyā. So you have to transfer your service from māyā to Kṛṣṇa. Then your life will be successful and you will taste different varieties of prasādam perpetually and enjoy life eternally and blissfully.

Thank you very much. (end)



750118SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.43

-

Bombay, January 18, 1975



Nitāi: "The characteristics of water are exhibited by its moistening other substances, coagulating various mixtures, causing satisfaction, maintaining life, softening things, driving away heat, incessantly supplying itself to reservoirs of water, and refreshing by slaking thirst."



Prabhupāda:



kledanaṁ piṇḍanaṁ tṛptiḥ

prāṇanāpyāyanondanam

tāpāpanodo bhūyastvam

ambhaso vṛttayas tu imāḥ

[SB 3.26.43]



*So this is analysis of water. So many things can be performed by water. Everything is being analytically studied. Kṣitir āp tejo marud vyoma. So... But one thing important in this verse is that tāpa apanodaḥ, refreshing, refreshing. When you are thirsty, you drink water. Immediately your thirst is satiated and you feel a fresh pleasure. So in the Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa says that this qualification of the water, tāpa apanodaḥ... What is that verse? Āpo 'ham...



Devotees: Raso 'ham...



*Prabhupāda: Raso 'ham. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi*-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. So this satisfaction... Actually, our satisfaction can be revived only with relationship of Kṛṣṇa, revival of our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is śānti. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, when he came in contact with the Supreme Personality of Godhead... He was hankering after material opulence, kingdom, a better kingdom than his father, than his grandfather. That was his ambition. As a child, he was insulted by his stepmother. So actually when he saw Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, he was so satisfied that he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "Now I have no more hankering."



*So this is also one tāpa. In this material world we are suffering so many varieties of tāpa. Tāpan vindanti maithunyam agaram ajhaḥ.(?) It is simply full of tāpa. Tāpa means heat, and tāpa means unbearable, miserable condition. Therefore from tāpa... It comes from tāpa, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some unfavorable condition. Of course, the soul is not affected by any favorable or unfavorable condition. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, it has no connection with the favorable, unfavorable condition. It is simply abhiniveśa. The mind being affected by the material contamination, we are suffering so*-called miserable condition of life. It is due to the mind. Otherwise, as it is said, one man is satisfied in a very poor condition of life, and another man is not satisfied even in the best opulent condition of life. Why? It is due to the mind. It is due to the mind.

*So therefore whole process of spiritual life or peaceful life... Spiritual life is peaceful life. Material life is not peaceful life. Ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā. There are so many varieties of desires in material life. Therefore one cannot be peaceful. That is not possible. But when one enters into spiritual life... Spiritual life means to revive our spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then we can become happy. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Three things, if we learn... What are those three things?

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*Śānti. If we learn these three things, then we'll get śānti. Śānti, that is clearly explained in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta also. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, jñātvā mām. "Me," Kṛṣṇa says-person. Just like "Give me."



*So Kṛṣṇa says, jñātvā mām. What is that? So we have to know Kṛṣṇa, that He is actually enjoyer. Master and servant. If the servant knows that "In this house my master is the proprietor. He is the enjoyer. I am simply servant," then he is peaceful. But if he artificially tries to become the master although he is servant there, then there is all disturbance. So here our miserable conditions are caused by our thinking that "I am the proprietor. I am the owner. I am the enjoyer." One becomes to owner, proprietor, because he wants to enjoy. So this is our disease. Actually, we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya*-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is our original position. We are servant, even in this condition. But we are servant of māyā, illusion-means we are servant of our lusty desires, kāma, krodha, anger, lobha, greediness, moha, illusion, so many, mada, madness. We are servant of these propensities. We are not master. When you become master of these sense gratification processes, then you are svāmī.

That is the position of svāmī. Svāmī means master. Gosvāmī. Gosvāmī means this controller of the senses. Go means senses. So svāmī or gosvāmī means one who has control over the senses or one who has control over the mind. The mind is very restless. The whole yogic process is meant for controlling the mind because unless you control the mind, the mind will volumes and volumes of desires, hundreds, thousands, millions. And you have to satisfy them. Then where is śānti? You have to satisfy the master. Who has become your master? Mind. Then you are disturbed. There cannot be any peace. And mind has got many millions of desires. Therefore, when you can control over the mind, that mind desires something and you have to control, "No, you cannot do it," then you become a svāmī. Svāmī, these sannyāsīs, they are given the title "svāmī" or "gosvāmī" because the sannyāsīs are supposed to control over the mind, over the senses. Therefore they are called svāmī. Otherwise, not svāmī but servant. If you are controlled by the mind, then you are servant, and if you are controller of the mind, then you are svāmī, the same person.

*So how you can become svāmī? Because we are falsely thinking that "I am the proprietor. I am the enjoyer. I am the leader. I am the friend of my family, my society, my nation," so many ways, you have to convert these things. Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the friend of everyone." But we are taking the place of Kṛṣṇa, leadership. I am declaring to my countrymen, to my follower, that "I am your friend." So actually, I cannot be friend because I do not know what is the goal of life. I cannot lead them properly. Some immediate convenience we can offer, and people, being less intelligent, they are after immediate profit. It is called preyas. Just like if you say to a small child, "Don't go to school. Please come and play with me," he would like to play with his friend. That is immediate profit. But if you ask him to go to the school, that is remote profit. That is called śreyas. And preyas. Preyas me ans immediate profit. Two young men, if one friend says to the other friend, "Oh, let us go to the cinema," that is very palatable. And if he says, "Let us go to this meeting in Hare Kṛṣṇa Land," that is not very palatable. This is the distinction between śreyas and preyas. Niḥśreyasāya. Niḥśreyasāya means ultimate goal of life, ultimate profit of life.

*So ultimate profit of life is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Because we are suffering on account of separation from God. This is our cause of suffering. Instead of becoming servant of God we have become the servant of senses. That is the cause of our suffering. Therefore three things, if we can understand thoroughly, that Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the proprietor and enjoyer of the whole universe or creation and... Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor of all universal planets, and suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, and He is the real friend of everyone. Jñātvā, "One who knows," Kṛṣṇa says, mām, "Me, then he gets śānti." Otherwise, there cannot be any śānti. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also it is confirmed that

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta'

*bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-sakali 'aśānta'

[Cc. Madhya 19.149]



*Kṛṣṇa*-bhakta, one who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is śānta. He is fully confident. Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, he is fully confident that "Kṛṣṇa, I have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. I have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, and He has promised, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Then where is the cause of my anxiety?" Therefore he can become... He has understood Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality, almighty, all-powerful, full of all opulences. "So if he has taken my charge, then where is my anxiety?" That is śānti. That is śānti. And so long we are taking shelter of māyā, asat, which will not stay...



*Suppose we are taking shelter, child is taking shelter of the father, mother, or the citizens is taking shelter of the state, of the government. So one has to to take shelter of something else for protection, for security. But they are not actually security. Therefore we are always full of anxiety. You may be a citizen of a great state like United States of America. But you are not without any anxiety because that shelter is not sufficient. That will not stay. Just like recently in America they had to dethrone Mr. Nixon because they were not free from anxiety. So you cannot become free from anxiety by taking shelter of anything material. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Asat and sat. Sat means eternal, and asat means temporary. So we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We are not annihilated after the annihilation or destruction of this body. Therefore we have to take shelter of the eternal. Then we'll be happy. And so long we shall take shelter of the temporary thing, asat, this material world, material society, friendship, love, state, community, nation-anything you take, they are not permanent-so you cannot be happy. But if you take shelter for security at the lotus feet of the Supreme, then you are actually secure.

*Sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt. Asad-grahāt. Asad means this material world. It will not stay. Just like this material body. It will not stay-everyone knows; *it has a beginning, birth*-it stays for some time, it transforms some other bodies as children, then it becomes old, dwindling, and then finished. These are six different transformation of the material world. But it is temporary, asat. But there is another life, where there is no transformation: eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. That is spiritual world. So that spiritual world, we have no information, but we have got little experience. Spiritual world means complete peaceful, śānti. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati [Bg. 5.29]. Therefore it is compulsory business of our life to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa, if you want śānti. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. If you want śānti, then you have to know God, what is God, not vague idea, actually. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. You have to know.

*Now, the position is how to know God. How to know God. So God know, it is very easy. If you don't chant... Suppose if I say that "By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you will know God," you may think that "Why shall I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra? I belong to different religion. Why shall I chant this Hindus' Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?" Then all right, you do not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, but you try to understand God in your daily life. What is that? That satisfaction by drinking water. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. Everyone drinks water. Either you become Hindu, Muslim, Christian, you have to drink water. And after drinking water, when you feel satisfaction, as it is said, tāpa apanodaḥ, the tiresomeness immediately annihilated, immediately diminished, satisfies, so that satisfaction is Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa says. So you haven't got to search out Kṛṣṇa anywhere. Kṛṣṇa is within you, God is within you, but still if you are doubtful, then God says, Kṛṣṇa says, "You try to understand Me in this way, tāpa apanodaḥ, the water." Everyone drinks water, very easy. So raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. Then the beginning, if you do not do anything... Just I am trying to convince you about the easy process of bhakti*-yoga. Anyone, everyone, at any place, any condition of life, he can become a bhakta. Ahaituky apratihatā. This is first-class religion, to become devotee of God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. Bhakti... When you... Bhakti means loving service. When you develop your dormant love for Kṛṣṇa and you begin to serve Him, that is called bhakti.

*So this bhakti is the first*-class religion, Paro dharma. All other different kinds of religious systems, they are material. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Buddhist"-these are all material designation. Actually, it is not dharma. Just like gold. Gold cannot be Hindu gold, Christian gold, Muslim gold. Gold is gold. There is no question of Hindu gold or Muslim gold. Similarly, dharma, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means relationship with God. So human being in any society, any part of the world, there is a consciousness or sense of understanding God. The method may be different; *that is another thing. But the idea is how to know God. Just like Christians, they say, "O God, give us our daily bread." So there is relationship. Muslim they say, allah akbar, "God is great." So in Hindu*-conception generally say, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So any sense you say, there is relationship with God. So unless you revive your relationship with God which is dormant, there is no śānti. There cannot be any śānti. So try to understand God.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa is canvassing that "If you do not take this process, that process, you simply, while drinking water, you think of Me: 'Here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is Kṛṣṇa.' " As it is said here, tāpa apanodaḥ. Everyone drinks water, so everyone can remember Kṛṣṇa, or God, if you simply learn this art, that "While drinking water, while I feel satisfaction, I must know, 'Here is God.' " Your devotional life immediately begins, without any education, without any enlightenment. Even a child can... If you teach the child that "When you drink water, you think of God..." Of course, one must have some knowledge what is God. So that according to different status of life... So here from Bhagavad-gītā or Bhāgavata we understand, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. So Kṛṣṇa is here in the temple. Kṛṣṇa is in my room in picture. So that is also not difficult. How easy it is, just try to understand, that if drinking water and if I think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa," and I have seen Kṛṣṇa in the temple, I have seen Kṛṣṇa in my room, my father has shown me, "Here is Kṛṣṇa," then where is the difficulty? And if you think Kṛṣṇa like that-"Here is Kṛṣṇa"*-that is the beginning of spiritual life. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23], memorizing.

*So we request everyone to come to the temple because he will have the impression what is Kṛṣṇa, how He looks. Here is Kṛṣṇa. It is not imagination. Don't think it is imagination, we have imagined some form. Just like the Māyāvādīs say, "It is imagination." No. It is fact. Because this Kṛṣṇa, this form of Kṛṣṇa, the our forefathers or ācāryas they have seen when Kṛṣṇa was present on this planet. And there are many, many old temples. The same feature of Kṛṣṇa, two hands, playing on the flute, and anywhere you will see Kṛṣṇa He has got this flute. Because that is His most beloved, favorite instrument. That is stated in the śāstra, not imagination. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asita... [Bs. 5.30]. In the Vedic language it is said that Kṛṣṇa, He has got a flute in His hand. He likes to play on flute. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam [Bs. 5.30]. Barhāvataṁsa means the peacock. He likes peacock feather. These symptoms are described in the Vedic literature, and when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, the same feature was there. So this picture, this photo, or this statue of Kṛṣṇa, this arcā-mūrti, is not different from the original Kṛṣṇa.

*So if you simply come here, take the impression of Kṛṣṇa and think of Kṛṣṇa while drinking water, you become a devotee. Is it very difficult job? Very easy. Anyone can do. Anyone can do. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Then, if you develop... This is śānta rasa. Then, when you develop your śānta*-rasa, then there is dāsya-rasa. Dāsya-rasa means that you want to serve Him. That is further development. "Here is God. No, why not...?" Therefore, according to the Vedic principle, whoever comes to the temple, he brings something to offer to Kṛṣṇa. Not that He requires huge amount of money. No. You must offer something. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. Kṛṣṇa is not in want, but if you give something to Kṛṣṇa, that is for your benefit. If Kṛṣṇa accepts something from you, then your life becomes successful. So... "But I have no money. What can I offer to Kṛṣṇa?" Oh, that is not the fact. We have got money for going to cinema, and you have no money to bring one flower for Kṛṣṇa. This is denial. This is denial. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "You bring one thousand dollars." No. He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati.

*So anywhere within this universe, you can get all these things, however poor man you may be. Patram, a little leaf, better tulasī leaf, or any leaf. Patraṁ puṣpam a little flower. Phalam, little fruit, and little water, that's all. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. Kṛṣṇa, He is the bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka... [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor of the all universes. So why He is asking this patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam? He is so poor? He is not poor. He is the most opulent. But if you begin to give something to Kṛṣṇa, you become opulent. That is wanted. Therefore He is canvassing that "Give Me something." Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. Because you have forgotten to give to Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa comes down. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. He canvasses, "Please give Me something," as if He is in great need of it. He is not need of it. But if you hear Kṛṣṇa and if you give something to Kṛṣṇa, then it is for your benefit. You will understand gradually what is your relationship with Kṛṣṇa and gradually develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your life is successful. Then your life becomes peaceful.

*Otherwise there is no possibility. Otherwise there is no possibility. Everyone is hankering after peace, but this is the way of attaining peace, to revive your relationship with Kṛṣṇa, to engage your mind fully in the service of Kṛṣṇa in the matter of understanding Kṛṣṇa. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa... The books are there. Bhagavad*-gītā is there. Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is there. You have got your reason. You have got your knowledge. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Simply you try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then, from this asat, this temporary life which you are changing one after another, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya... [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this body... This is also temporary body, asat, the asat. Asat means it will not stay. So after giving up this body, if you get another body... That is compulsory. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ there is. Just like we are getting different bodies in this life, similarly, when this body is finished, we get another body. But another body or this body, because this material body, asat. Asad-grahāt, because we accept this material, temporary body, there must be suffering, kleśada. Or whatever we feel pains and pleasure, that is due to this body.

*So the best achievement of life is the how to stop this getting material body again. Spiritual body. That is happiness. Then you will get eternal happiness, blissful life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. That you go to the spiritual world. There is spiritual world, as this, here, is material world. You have got material body. So if you are fit for going to the spiritual world, then you get spiritual body, same way. And spiritual body means sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], spiritual body. Vigraha means body, and sac-cid-ānanda... Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda, blissful. That we want. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to try to understand Kṛṣṇa, very easy. If you drink water as Kṛṣṇa advises, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, that satisfaction by drinking water, that is Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You think, "This is Kṛṣṇa." You think that "I am drinking Kṛṣṇa." Then twice, thrice, "Kṛṣṇa," means you become purified. Kṛṣṇa... Eka kṛṣṇa-nāme yato pāpa hare, pāpī haya tato pāpa kari bare nare(?). Eka kṛṣṇa, one, once chanting of Kṛṣṇa, it can kill so many reaction of sinful life that you cannot do so many sinful life. A sinful man can do large amount of sinful activities. But you cannot do even.

*So this process, if you adopt... Very easy. It is authenticated. We have not manufactured this. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8], "That rasa, that satisfaction by drinking water, that is I am." So why not think of Kṛṣṇa like that? You drink so many times water, especially in India. You drink water and think of Kṛṣṇa, you become perfect.

Thank you very much. (end)



750119SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.44

-

Bombay, January 19, 1975



Nitāi: "Due to the interaction of water with the taste perception, the subtle element odor evolves under superior arrangement. Thence the earth and the olfactory sense, by which we can variously experience the aroma of the earth, become manifest."



Prabhupāda:



*rasa*-mātrād vikurvāṇād

*ambhaso daiva*-coditāt

*gandha*-mātram abhūt tasmāt

pṛthvī ghrāṇas tu gandhagaḥ

[SB 3.26.44]



*So further analytical study of water is mentioned here by Kapiladeva. So the rasa, taste. Taste changes into gandha, smell. So the taste is created by daiva-coditāt. Taste of everything... Everything is being done, daiva-coditāt, the beginning. But the taste creates the different kinds of fragrance, gandha, smell, within the earth. There is water, there is taste, and taste and formation-either you say chemical or physical changes*-it becomes smell. So different kinds of smell there are already within the earth. Simply it brings out by different methods. The scientist does not know. That we have already explained several times, that the different gandha, or smell, or fragrance, or aroma, whatever you call, there are already within the earth. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, puṇyo gandhaḥ and pāpo gandhaḥ. In the material world, everywhere, there are two things: pious and impious. So the pāpo gandhaḥ, bad smell, when it passes, so you close your nose, nostrils, not to accept it. But when there is puṇyo gandhaḥ, you feel fresh: "Oh, it is very nice."



*So Kṛṣṇa says, puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. When you smell something very fragrant... Just like in the flower. There are different varieties of flower, and they are exacting different varieties of aroma from the earth. So the good smell of the flower... In some other place it is said in the Bhāgavatam that the..., when you see flower, you see Kṛṣṇa smiling. That is the seeing of Kṛṣṇa smiling. Therefore the flower should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. Because these flowers, everything, is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. So specifically good fragrance of flower, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am that." Kṛṣṇa's particular presence is there. So we can remember Kṛṣṇa immediately. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that you remember always Kṛṣṇa. Always Kṛṣṇa. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa did. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. He engaged his mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa simply by engaging the mind. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. If we utilize our senses always in the service of the Lord, that is bhakti. At the present moment we are utilizing our senses for material objectives. That is to be purified. It should be used for Kṛṣṇa's service. We are using our senses for the service of society, friendship, and love. But that service should be transferred to Kṛṣṇa. Then it is bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means... This flower, we are smelling; we are enjoying. That is sense gratification. Similarly, this same flower, if it is offered to Kṛṣṇa as garland, that He will smell it and feel pleasure, that is bhakti.

*So to come to the bhakti*-mārga, or devotional service, it is not very difficult. The smell is creation of God, or Kṛṣṇa, puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. Therefore the smell should be used for Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. This is bhakti, not for my pleasure. This is called tyāga. Tyāga means that actually it should be used for Kṛṣṇa, who has produced it. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Our senses are also Kṛṣṇa's senses. He is Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīka-īśa, iti hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīka means senses. Unfortunately, our senses are being used for sense satisfaction, neither for our use. It is for sense gratification. So bhakti means this practice of using the senses for sense gratification should be rectified, should be purified. Then the same senses will be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, and then you become a bhakta. Kṛṣṇa's things may be used for Kṛṣṇa. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

*The Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kaṛacā, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he has distinguished between kāma and prema. Kāma means lusty desires or sex desires. Generally, it is meant, sex desires. So he has very simplified the matter very much. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā-dhare... nāma dhare... prema... tāre... bali dhare...nāma kāma [Cc. Ādi 4.165], like that. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-vāñchā dhare nāma prema, and ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā-dhare nāma kāma. They... Actually, senses are there for satisfaction. That's a fact. Otherwise, why the senses are there? Just like the smell is there, and the nose is there. So smell is there for satisfaction of the senses. For the smell, for the nose, nostril, the beautiful flower is there, or beautiful, anything beautiful... To the man, woman is beautiful; *to the woman, man is beautiful. So the eyes are there, and the beautiful things are there. That is arrangement. That is development of this nature. As soon as... It is... It is coming from the fire. The... That we have already described. The fire is the origin of beauty and the fire is the origin of eyesight. The loss of eyesight means there is less fiery element. Loss of appetite means there is less of fiery elements. In the Ayurvedic treatment it is called agni*-māndyam. So these are transformation of the fire. Similarly, the smell is transformation of the rasa, taste.

*How subtle things are going on, that is described in the Sāṅkhya philosophy presented by Kapiladeva, but we do not understand practically how things are going on. We are simply accepting the words, that "By transformation of this thing, this thing is coming out so much." Neither it is possible to make experiment. Maybe, but scientists can take advantage of this Sāṅkhya philosophy. So you may experiment or not. That doesn't matter. Things are going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā manyate... [Bg. 3.27]. What is called? Kartāham iti manyate. Actually, these rules of transformation as ordained by daiva-coditāt, by the supreme design, that is going on. But we, under the name of so-called scientist, we are trying to take the credit. Just like they are testing now*-in the test tube they are making life. But the substance, the semina, male and female, that you cannot create. That you have to take from the male, from the female, then put together in the test tube. Then it may come. They are very much proud that "Now in the laboratory we are making life by chemical combination." But the actual chemical coming from by this transformation under the supervision of the daiva, daiva-coditāt. Daiva is the principle cause. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. That they do not accept. And people are giving credit to these artificial scientist.

In our Delhi program... There was lecture of a big scientist in Delhi, I forgot his name. He gave very good example, that if a man learns how to bark like dog and if he makes a show, many thousands of people will purchase ticket and go and see how he is barking. But by nature's arrangement, so many dogs are barking; nobody takes care. You see? So similarly, in the laboratory, if a scientist can produce a life some way or other, so they will go and see and give him clap. Just like this airplane is flying in the air. Little discrepancy is immediately crash down. So he is getting so much credit, and the scientists also saying, "There is no need of God. Now we have solved all the questions." But nobody is giving credit to Kṛṣṇa who is floating millions and trillions of stars and planets in the air. So by taking Kṛṣṇa's stock, the petroleum or gas, we become scientist and fly the airplane, and Kṛṣṇa has given the petrol, and He has no credit. He has no credit. That is the difference between demons and bhakta. A bhakta sees in everything presence of Kṛṣṇa. "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa's energy is there. Here is nice taste. Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8].

*So Kṛṣṇa has manifested Himself in so many ways by His different energies. We have to learn simply to know or see how Kṛṣṇa is working. So here it is stated that rasa*-mātrād vikurvāṇād ambhaso daiva-coditāt. Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa is working there. Vikur..., transformation, does not take place automatically. Just like the other day I gave you the example: there is oil and there is soda, but you can transform into soap by mixing together. That mixing process does not take place automatically. There is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel, the living entity. We are also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. So scientist is working. A devotee sees that Kṛṣṇa is working. That is the difference between nondevotee and devotee. A nondevotee will give credit to the scientist, who is working subordinately under the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā: sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. In everyone's heart Kṛṣṇa is there.

So one man is working very nicely. He is taking the credit of becoming a scientist. Why the other man cannot do it? Another man is also working in the laboratory. Just like this airless telegram, radio. Many scientists were working, and in our childhood we have... I was present in a meeting. Sir Jagadish Candra Bose was speaking. So Marconi and Sir Jagadish Candra Bose and many other physicists, they were working to study the waves of air and how to establish wireless telegram. So actually Jagadish Candra Bose, he found out the means, and they were talking, Marconi and Jagadish Candra Bose. Marconi took the hint and immediately he published in the paper. And in those British ruling, British government, they wanted to give credit all to the Englishmen. Actually, this wireless telegram was established by Sir Jagadish Candra Bose. He spoke in a meeting. So anyway... Just like two scientists are working to find out something, to invent something, but the wireless telegram is in the credit of Mr. Marconi. Why not Jagadish Candra Bose? There is the hand of Kṛṣṇa. They are... So many people are working for inventing something, but one man takes the credit; *other men cannot. Why? Why this discrimination? There must be some cause of this discrimination. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am situated in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Mattaḥ, "From Me, if I give you the intelligence, 'Now mix this chemical with this chemical, your product will come.' " Others, they have got the chemical, and the laboratory man also there. But one takes the credit; *one cannot take the credit. That is due to Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa gives the intelligence, then he gets the intelligence, and he takes the credit. Nimitta*-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin.

*Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "This plan of Battle of Kurukṣetra is already there. I have caused assembly of all the demonic persons here." Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām: [Bg. 4.8] "This is My plan. So Arjuna, I am flattering you so much that you fight. Fight. But don't think if you do not fight, they will go home. They will have to die here, because it is My plan already." Nimitta*-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin: "Because you are My devotee, you take the credit. You take the credit." So actually a devotee, because he is very sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa wants to give credit to His devotee, although He is doing everything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. So always think like that, that... Do not try to take credit yourself. We should always remember that it is Kṛṣṇa's credit. He wants to do something at a certain time, and some of his servant is authorized to do that. That's all. Otherwise, whole credit goes to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Govindam ādi-puruṣam.

*Just like Brahmā. Brahmā has created this universe, but he knows that he is not the creator. When Nārada Muni inquired from Brahmā that "We know that we are creator, you are the creator," Brahmā said, "My dear son, you are wrongly impressed. I am not creator. The creator is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Brahmā was given inspiration or lesson from within the heart. Kṛṣṇa is therefore called caitya-guru, "the guru from the heart." So He gives intelligence for doing particular thing when He is satisfied with the service. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam [Bg. 10.10]. Kṛṣṇa is ready to give intelligence to everyone because everyone is Kṛṣṇa's son. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4] So father is not particularly inclined to a particular son. No. But a son, if he is very obedient, then father discloses the most confidential things to that son. This is natural. This is not partiality. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ: [Bg. 9.29] "I am equal to..." Otherwise, how He can be God? If He is partial to somebody... Foolish people think, "Why God has made me poor? Why God has made so many poor men?" God has not made. They have made themselves poor. God has not made. He does not make any distinguish. He says the plain truth, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. He is saying to everyone. So if we do not do*-we have got little independence-then we are in this miserable condition of life.

*So these miseries of the society, that is not creation by God. God is very, very kind to everyone. Samo 'haṁ sarva*-bhūteṣu na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ [Bg. 9.29]. Nobody is Kṛṣṇa's, or God's, enemy; nobody is Kṛṣṇa's friend. But one who wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as friend, his consideration is different. "Oh, here is a willing servant." That is bhakti. Bhakti means willingness. Śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. These are the different development of bhakti. First of all, in the material stage, we are defying, "Oh, what is..." That is asuric. "What is God? We are doing everything." A big swami lectured in America, and he was advocating, "Why you are giving credit to God? You are laboring, you are working, you are getting the result. Why should you give credit to God?" This was the subject matter. That is demonic. All credit should go to God. That is bhakti. Actually, without Kṛṣṇa's help, without God's help, you cannot do anything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi... Kartāham iti manyate. In the demonic stage the living entity becomes a, what is called, play dog.

*Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Just like you have been in the beach. The dog is bound up by the chain, or the master says, "You come here." He has to come here. "You go there," like that. So we are enchained by these laws of material nature*-daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]-but we are claiming independent. There is no independence. There cannot be independence. You are the servant. We are all the servant of māyā, prakṛti, because we have given up the service of the Lord. Our constitutional position is to remain a servant. But if we defy God, Kṛṣṇa, and we want to become independent, that means we become servant of prakṛti. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. We associate with different modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. And under different association or being controlled by different modes of material nature, we are getting different varieties of body. Why one has got very good body, very brāhmaṇa body or rich man's body, and why one has got dog's body, cat's body, tree's body? Why? There is some arrangement. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa. This is the injunction, that you are working under the impulse of certain modes of material nature. That is being observed by the Supersoul, anumantā upadraṣṭā. He is seeing all your activities. So you wanted something to do, but you require certain body to do that. That is being arranged by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. This is the law. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Why one living entity is getting a better type of body, another a very low, abominable type of body? Daiva-netreṇa.

*Therefore this consciousness can be awakened in this human form of life. We can take education. We can understand from Vedic knowledge what is our position, what is our relationship with God, how we shall act in that relationship. These are the opportunities in this human form of life*-not in the form of cats and dogs. So in spite of getting this opportunity, if we do not understand God, if we do not understand what is our relationship with God, then according to śāstra it is called ātma-han. Ātma-han means suicide. If you cut your throat yourself, who can save you? So we should not become ātma-han and spoil this life. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. This human form life, durlabham. After many, many millions of evolution, we have got it. So it is very durlabha. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. We have got this opportunity by the grace of God, or the material nature has given us this opportunity. Now we should utilize it properly. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't spoil it.

And what is that? Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very childhood this dharmān bhāgavatān must be given lessons to the children. Therefore, from the very beginning we have opened this gurukula in Texas and in New Vrindaban, West Virginia. But here, practically, India, we don't get this opportunity. Before starting this movement, I approached many friends that "You have got four sons. Give me one. I will train him to become a Vaiṣṇava brāhmaṇa." Nobody agreed. You see? But in the European countries, in America... Of course, they are all children of my devotees. I got them married. They have got now children, and they are being taught in gurukula. That is strictly according to the Vedic science, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha, from the very beginning of life. So life should be utilized properly, and the children, not all... Some of them may become kṣatriya; some of them become śūdra or vaiśya. But an ideal class of brāhmaṇa must be there to guide the society. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



750120SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.45

-

Bombay, January 20, 1975



*Nitāi: "Odor, although one, becomes many*-as mixed, offensive, fragrant, mild, strong, acidic and so on-according to the proportions of associated substances."



Prabhupāda:



*karambha*-pūti-saurabhya-

śāntogrāmlādibhiḥ pṛthak

*dravyāvayava*-vai...

[SB 3.26.45]



What is that? Vaiṣamyād gandha eko vibhidyate. In the previous verse the gandha, from gandha, from smell, fragrance or smell, ghrāṇas tu gandhagaḥ. So in the smelling power, nostril, they perceive different varieties. Variety is there. Although the thing is one, one Kṛṣṇa, but even in His material energy, He is perceived in varieties of things. That is the purpose of this Sāṅkhya philosophy, how one has become many. Ekaṁ bahu syām.



*So intelligence is to know the one as well as the varieties. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they simply take one side, oneness. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. That is fact. Dvitī... There is no dvitīya. Dvitīyābhiniveśa means māyā. Everywhere, Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. The materialistic scientists, they take the ultimate cause of this material world: the atom. Now this atomic theory, paramāṇu. Paramāṇu. You have seen the paramāṇu. In your room, if there is a hole and sunshine is coming through that hole, you will find in that sunshine, sun rays, there are millions of small particles. That is called paramāṇu. Aṇu, paramāṇu. So then there is aṇu also, smaller than that. Six aṇus combined together becomes a paramāṇu. So the paramāṇuvāda... I forget the ṛṣi's name who propounded the philosophy of paramāṇuvāda, that the material creation is combination of these atomic particles, paramāṇuvāda. But now the scientists they are studying the paramāṇu, atom, also. They are finding still subtle elements. They say "proton and electron," like that, still finer. In this way you cannot go ultimately to the finest material being. And even if you go, still, there is no solution. You will find something else within it working.

*So that something else, ultimately if we can realize, that is Kṛṣṇa. Aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Kṛṣṇa is there even within the paramāṇu, electrons, protons. There is; *He is there. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Kṛṣṇa showed Arjuna the virāḍ*-rūpa, the gigantic universal form. So one side, He is universally represented, virāḍ-rūpa. And in another side He is within the aṇu paramāṇu, smaller than the aṇu, smaller than the paramāṇu. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. That is Kṛṣṇa. Mahīyān. But these are all material forms. In the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find in the Eleventh Chapter, Arjuna is requesting to come to His original form. So he was very much threatened, or frightened, and he requested, "This form is very much unbearable to see. Please come to Your original form." So Kṛṣṇa first of all came to His form, four-handed Viṣṇu form; *then again He came into His two*-handed Kṛṣṇa form, and that is the ultimate, real form of Kṛṣṇa.

*Kṛṣṇa has got many forms. Every form is Kṛṣṇa's form. That's a fact. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Some of the forms are personal, some of the forms are of His potencies, śakti, but all forms belong to Kṛṣṇa. So some of them are material forms, and whatever differentiation of forms we see in the material world, they are all Kṛṣṇa's form. But in the spiritual world there are also many forms-just like Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma, then Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, Pradyumna, Nārāyaṇa, and the puruṣa-avatāra. There are many. And there are innumerable planets also. In each and every planet there is one form. And when incarnation comes, one of the forms from Vaikuṇṭha, They come as incarnation. So many forms are called svāṁśa. In the Varāha Purāṇa you will find the description of the forms: svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. The forms exhibited in this material world as living being, they are vibhinnāṁśa. Bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. As there are separated energies, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], the five elements, material elements, mahā-bhūta, they are also forms of Kṛṣṇa. This big mountain, Himalayan mountain, that is also form of Kṛṣṇa. The big Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, that is also form of Kṛṣṇa. He says bhūmir āpaḥ. Āpaḥ. Āpaḥ means water. So not only water in this planet, but there are millions and trillions of Pacific Ocean bigger than that in other planets. So inconceivable. Therefore God is inconceivable, acintya. Acintya-guṇa. Acintya, inconceivable.

*So in this way Kṛṣṇa is existing. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. But the original form is Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. That is original form. That form is existing in Vṛndāvana. And other forms, they are distributed. Goloka eva nivasati. Actually, Kṛṣṇa is living in His original form in Goloka Vṛndāvana. This form, Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, this is the form in Goloka Vṛndāvana. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam [Bs. 5.30]. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as killing the Kaṁsa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. That is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa is in twelve different varieties of taste: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya, mādhurya, bhayānaka, bībhatsa, hāsya, the so many, twelve. In the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu it is..., Kṛṣṇa is worshiped there that akhila-rasāmṛta, akhila. There are many kinds of taste, and that taste are all combined together in Kṛṣṇa, akhila-rasāmṛta. In the Vedas it is said, raso vai saḥ. Rasa means mellow. So we have presented a little book, Kṛṣṇa is the Reservoir of All Pleasure. Rasa means pleasure, taste, pleasing taste, rasa, or humor. Everyone has got different taste. So all the taste are there in Kṛṣṇa. Raso vai saḥ, labdhvānandī. Anyone who has tasted Kṛṣṇa he gets real taste of pleasure, either in this rasa or that rasa.

*Just like Bhīṣma. Bhīṣma was fighting with Kṛṣṇa. He had no business fighting with Kṛṣṇa because He is charioteer. But sometimes the horses, the charioteer, are also killed by the opposing party. So when Arjuna was in a very dangerous position... Because Bhīṣma promised to Duryodhana. Duryodhana was criticizing his grandfather, that "You are not fighting wholeheartedly. Because your affection is there on the other side, your other grandsons, pañca*-pāṇḍava, therefore you are not fighting with your full strength." So this is a great insult for the kṣatriya. So he promised to kill the five Pāṇḍavas next day. That was a challenge to Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa promised that He will not fight in the battle, and Bhīṣma promised that "Unless Kṛṣṇa fights and protects His friend, Arjuna, he could not be saved. I will fight in that way." So he was fighting in that way, and Arjuna's chariot became broken into pieces, and he was in danger. And Kṛṣṇa could understand that "Bhīṣma wants Me to fight on account of Arjuna; otherwise he would not be saved."

*So to please Bhīṣma*-not that it was necessary to fight with Bhīṣma, but because Bhīṣma wanted that "Either Kṛṣṇa must fight or His friend Arjuna must die"-therefore Kṛṣṇa decided... Not to... He could save His friend Arjuna in any way. But in order to show Bhīṣma that "Yes, He is fighting. He has broken His promise..." He promised that He would not fight, but Bhīṣma promised that either He should fight or His friend would die. So therefore He prepared to fight. But superficially, He did not take His original disc. He took only one broken wheel of the chariot, and taking it, He was going to kill Bhīṣma just to show him, "You promised that I would fight, so now I have taken this fighting weapon. Now you can stop. Otherwise you will be killed." So he stopped. He could understand. But while Kṛṣṇa was coming to kill him with that broken piece of wheel, that was very pleasing to him, Bhīṣma. At that time Bhīṣma was piercing with sharpened arrow the body of Kṛṣṇa. So He was pleasing, He was feeling very pleasure, being pierced by the arrow of Bhīṣma. So bhakti transaction, there are many kinds of bhakti transaction. And at the time of Bhīṣma's death he was thinking of Kṛṣṇa: in His fighting spirit He was coming to kill him. That is in Bhīṣma's prayer. There is in the Bhāgavata. He was not thinking of Kṛṣṇa with flute. He was thinking of Kṛṣṇa with the broken chariot wheel and was coming to kill him. That form was very pleasing to him.

*So we can reciprocate all kinds of rasas, humor, because He is the reservoir of all rasas. So this is the rasa of chivalry, the fighting spirit. So everything is there. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Absolute Truth is that where all varieties are there, variety. Although He is one, but still, varieties are there. Otherwise wherefrom the varieties come? Everything, all varieties. You see in the material world how many varieties are there. You take one bunch of flower. You will find, if you study minutely, how many hundreds and thousands of varieties of thorns, varieties of twigs, and color, and everything is there, variety. How these varieties are coming? The Vedānta replies, "From the Absolute Truth, varieties." Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The Supreme Absolute Truth has got so many varieties of energies. For each and every variety, particular, finer craftsmanship, there is different energy. They are working. Just like we require to present some varieties a specialist, so Kṛṣṇa Himself has got all the special varieties of energy, and they are working in such a nice way as svābhāvikī. He hasn't got to learn it. Svābhāvikī. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Jñāna, knowledge. Suppose if you want to paint something, you must have the knowledge of painting, jñāna. And strength, and activity. Everything.

*So Kṛṣṇa, anything He is creator. Therefore He is perfect, all*-opulent. Anything that requires to be created... You can create. We have got the creative energy. Because we are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the creative energy is there, but not in fullness. Kṛṣṇa's variety of energy, that is full of potency.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*These are called bhaga, opulence. So all the opulences... For creating a nice flower, that is being manufactured by Kṛṣṇa. With His brain the seed of the flower is a chemical composition so nicely made. Svābhāvikī jñāna, He knows. Naturally He knows how to make the seed perfect so that from the seed, by sowing in the soil, by watering, the whole varieties will come. Is there any scientist to put in a small seed all the chemicals and it will come automatically, a motorcar? No. That is not possible. That is not possible. You have to create every car. And Kṛṣṇa's energy is so perfect that she has created one male body and one female body, and innumerable cars are coming. This is car, described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, this body. Yantra. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. This is yantra, but this yantra is coming by union of two yantras: one male yantra and female yantra. And millions of yantras are coming. Where is that capacity?



*So one gentleman, he challenged me. He's atheistic class. He said, "What is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence? It is just like an watch. If you wind the watch, it goes and gives time. Similarly, it is just like a machine*-the whole world is going on." That's all right. Still, you are lacking knowledge, because Kṛṣṇa hasn't got to prepare each and every watch. He has made two watches, male and female, and they are producing. That is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. Therefore even if you supposed to be very intelligent, still, you are lacking intelligence. You cannot be as intelligent as Kṛṣṇa. There must be some less quantity. Just like Yaśodāmāyi wanted to bind Kṛṣṇa with ropes, and as soon as she was going to knot it, there was little difference.

So we may be very intelligent scientifically or mathematically or physically, biologically. That's all right. But when we compare with the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa, it is less by two cubits. It is less. That we should always understand. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. We have to accept this, that we cannot excel the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. I may show varieties of magic and declare myself Kṛṣṇa, or God. But still, you cannot show as perfectly magical arts as Kṛṣṇa is showing. That is not possible. If we understand this fact and realize it, then we can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. There is little value like Kṛṣṇa. But we can never be equal with Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Asamordhva. Nobody can be equal with Kṛṣṇa; nobody can be greater than Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is lower than Kṛṣṇa. So this intelligence is real intelligence, and if we think that equal to Kṛṣṇa or greater than Kṛṣṇa, that is all māyā.

tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair

ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat

mohitaṁ nābhijānāti

mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam

[Bg. 7.13]



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to know that no more greater than Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is greater than Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is equal to Kṛṣṇa. If we understand this much perfectly... We cannot understand perfectly because that is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited. But as far as we have got our knowledge, if we understand this fact, that "I can never become equal with Kṛṣṇa; neither I can become greater than Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. I have to remain always subordinate to Kṛṣṇa," this is called mukti, liberation. We are entrapped in this material bondage by illusory understanding. So when we come to the right understanding, that "My position is always subordinate to Kṛṣṇa," that is called mukti. Anyone can become a mukta, liberated person, as soon as he agrees to this philosophy that he is always subordinate to Kṛṣṇa, or God; he is never equal to Him nor greater than Him. Asama-ūrdhva. And those who are thinking that they are equal with Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Māyā mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. They do not know their actual... But when he comes to the knowledge, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ... [Bg. 7.19]. That is required.



*If you want to become mahātmā really, then you have to come to this point, to understand the, originally, the Vāsudeva is the supreme cause of all causes. That is perfection of life. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to teach this knowledge to the world, the best welfare activities. They are all in illusion. Some of them are thinking there is no Kṛṣṇa, and some of them are thinking, "If there is Kṛṣṇa"*-Kṛṣṇa means God-"I am also God. I am equal." And some of them are thinking that "By meditation, by spiritual advancement, now I am greater than Kṛṣṇa." Yes. They are not, neither equal nor below, but they are thinking greater than Him. "With the progress of time the human being is advancing in knowledge. So by their meditational power, they can become greater than Kṛṣṇa." So that is foolishness. That is not possible. This is also māyā. Just like māyā is acting in so many ways. Sometimes we are thinking, "There is no Kṛṣṇa, no God. We are, every one of us are God." Similarly, to think of greater than Kṛṣṇa is another illusioning curtain of māyā. Māyā is not getting you out very easily. He will put so many impediments. Therefore bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births, when actually becomes wise, then he understands that 'I am nothing. Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, He is everything.' " Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Then that is not oneness, dual. "Vāsudeva, and I am." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā.

*So mahātmā and Vāsudeva, there are two. The mahātmā realizing Vāsudeva, and Vāsudeva is everywhere. That is perfection of life. A person who realizes Vāsudeva in that way... Vāsudeva means everything lives on somebody. Vāsudeva. So Kṛṣṇa says, mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ: [Bg. 9.4] "Everything is resting on Me, but still, it appears that I am not there." This is illusory energy. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], that's a fact. Vāsudeva is everywhere. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Simply we have to purify our senses to understand the presence of Vāsudeva. That is required. And that is possible if we increase our loving tendency to love Kṛṣṇa. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. If we increase our loving propensity... That is already there, but now it is intervened by the māyā cloud. So we have to get out of the cloud. Then we will find vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. So that is called purificatory process.

*So this purificatory process means this devotional service. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Vāsudeva reveals. You cannot... By your force, you cannot see Him. But He is pleased, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau, when you accept to serve Him by your tongue, beginning with tongue, kīrtanam. You glorify Kṛṣṇa. You taste Kṛṣṇa's prasādam with devotion and service. Then you realize Vāsudeva very easily. Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. These blunt senses, they cannot realize. But when the senses are purified, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the process by which you can purify, sanctify your senses. And then, when your senses are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, beginning with the tongue, then your life becomes perfect.

Thank you very much. (end)



750121SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.46

-

Bombay, January 21, 1975



Nitāi: "The characteristics of the functions of earth can be perceived by modeling forms of the Supreme Brahman, by constructing places of residence, by preparing pots to contain water, etc. In other words, the earth is the place of sustenance for all elements."



Prabhupāda:



bhāvanaṁ brahmaṇaḥ sthānaṁ

*dhāraṇaṁ sad*-viśeṣaṇam

*sarva*-sattva-guṇodbhedaḥ

*pṛthivī*-vṛtti-lakṣaṇam

[SB 3.26.46]



*So brahmaṇaḥ sthānam. This temple is brahmaṇaḥ sthānam, the residential place for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, brahmaṇaḥ. Brahmaṇaḥ means the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is understood in three different features: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So Supreme Brahman means Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as it was accepted by Arjuna after understanding Bhagavad*-gītā. He addressed Him, paraṁ brahma param dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "You are paraṁ brahma." Brahman and Paramātmā and Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate, the Absolute Truth. According to our different realization, the Absolute Truth is realized in three different features: impersonal Brahman; *and localized, all*-pervading antaryāmī, Viṣṇu or Paramātmā; and the last word of understanding is Bhagavān.



*So impersonal Brahman, nobody can construct any sthānam, place, of the impersonal Brahman, or Paramātmā. Paramātmā has got place everywhere. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ..., sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. So that is the worshipable Deity for the yogis. And impersonal Brahman for the jñānīs. And Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the shelter of both Parabrahman, I mean to say, impersonal Brahman, and Paramātmā... Yad advaita brahma upaniṣadi. Upaniṣadi, in the Upaniṣad, Vedic Upaniṣad, the impersonal Brahman is described. And the yogis, by meditation, they try to understand the Supreme Absolute Truth by seeing the Viṣṇu form, four-handed Viṣṇu. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1].

*So yogis, the jñānīs, they have got their function, to realize the Absolute Truth. Similarly, bhakta. Bhakta, they want to worship the Personality of Godhead in a temple just like we are trying to do, to have a temple here nice. We have got already. Our function is going on. But we want to make a very gorgeous place for the Lord. That is the utility of this land: to construct temple for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We have got a tendency to construct house. Ato gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ. This material world means first of all we have got desire of sex, mixing together, man and woman. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam [SB 5.5.8]. Mithunī-bhāva. Mithunī-bhāva means sex desires, impelled by sex. That is the central point of this material life. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. The central point of material happiness is maithunādi, sex impulse. Everyone. This morning was... Some devotee was discussing that the daily passengers, sometimes they go from home three to four hours, come to Bombay, and they work their eight hours. Then again three to four hours. So somebody was asking, "Why they should go? They can remain in the city." No. Their central point is there. Central point is sex. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ [SB 2.1.3]. The materialistic person's life is being spoiled in this way.

*That is described by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Nidrayā hriyate naktam: "At night they spoil the valuable time by sleeping." Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ [SB 2.1.3]. Vyavāya. Vyavāya means sex. "Either by sex or by sleeping." Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba*-bharaṇena vā: "And during daytime they are after money, 'Where is money? Where is money?' And if they get money, 'How to spend it for kuṭumba, for family members?' " This is material life. And as soon as we are united, mithunī-bhāva, then gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ [SB 5.5.8]. Then we want apartment or house, big, big house, gṛha, and kṣetra. Kṣetra means earning fee. Formerly there were agriculture. Now there are so many industries and other places. So this gṛha is the utilization of the earth. People want some gṛha. So this propensity can be utilized by constructing temple. That propensity, that "I must have a very high skyscraper building," that tendency is there, but if we utilize that tendency for constructing, as it is stated, bhāvanaṁ brahmaṇaḥ sthānam... Instead of thinking that "I will have such big building," if we transfer that thinking, that "I will construct such a nice big temple for establishing Deity worship," that is the proper utilization of this tendency. One is for sense gratification; *another, the same thing... If you construct a temple, you will have to labor in the same way, how to get municipal sanction, how to get cement, how to get stone, how to get this, that, so many things. But it is nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe: it has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Your capacity to construct something material, residential... So if we do it for Kṛṣṇa, then it is Kṛṣṇa consciousness; your life is successful.

*You are thinking of Kṛṣṇa always. Even Kaṁsa, he was enemy of Kṛṣṇa, enemy of Kṛṣṇa, and he was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. As Devakī was growing days, she was becoming very bright and beautiful, and Kaṁsa was waiting when his sister Devakī will give birth to Kṛṣṇa and he will kill Him. That was his purpose. He wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. He was first of all ready to kill his sister. When he heard that "Your sister's eighth son will kill you," so Kaṁsa thought, "Why waiting for the eighth son? Kill my sister." So she was saved by Vasudeva by some trick plan, that "After all, your sister is not going to kill you. Sister's son. Who knows that a son will be there and whether he will live or not live?" But Kaṁsa he would not hear anything. So it is the duty of the husband to give protection to the wife. So he made a plan, that "My dear Kaṁsa, brother*-in-law, I shall bring all child born of your sister, and if you like, you can kill." In this way the situation was saved.

*So Kaṁsa was always thinking how to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was thinking in a different way, how to kill Kṛṣṇa. A devotee thinks how to... [break] One is favorable, and the other is unfavorable. One is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how to kill Him, and the other is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how to serve Him. So this thinking, how to serve Him, is called bhakti, not the otherwise. As Kaṁsa was thinking how to kill Him, that is not bhakti. Bhakti means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Anukūla. Anukūla means favorable. If you think of Kṛṣṇa in various ways favorably-how to serve Kṛṣṇa, how to decorate Kṛṣṇa, how to give Kṛṣṇa a nice place for residential quarter, temple, how to preach Kṛṣṇa's glories*-in this way, if you think, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā. That is first-class bhakti, how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna he changed his all decision. (microphone rattling) (aside:) You can take it that side. Arjuna was thinking not to fight, but when he heard very minutely, listened Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he changed his decision. "No, Kṛṣṇa wants it. Kṛṣṇa wants this fight, so I shall do this." This is kṛṣṇānuśīlanam, cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not his decision. His decision was not to fight. A Vaiṣṇava does not want to kill anybody. That is natural tendency. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām: [SB 3.25.21] "A Vaiṣṇava is friend of everyone." So Arjuna was Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Naturally, he was not inclined to kill and gain the fight. So he declined, that "I will not fight." But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he decided that "Kṛṣṇa wants to fight. He wants me..." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. "He says so far that 'These people who have assembled here, they are already killed. That is My plan. You simply take the credit of becoming victorious over them.' "

*So this is kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Even though I have got one decision in my life, but if I understand that Kṛṣṇa wants me to do something contrary, I shall be ready to perform this. That is kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. If you favorably serve Kṛṣṇa, that is bhaktir uttamā, first*-class bhakti. Unfavorably, as Kaṁsa was thinking, that how to kill Kṛṣṇa... He got also salvation because always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but not the salvation of the devotees. The devotee's salvation is different from the salvation of the nondevotees, jñānīs. Jñānīs... We have already explained there are three features of the Absolute Truth. One is impersonal Brahman, the other is localized Paramātmā, or antaryāmī, Supersoul, and the supermost is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavān, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa-bhagavān. So impersonal Brahman is the destination of the jñānīs, and Paramātmā, localized antaryāmī, is the destination of the yogis, and the Supreme Person, Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is the destination of the pure devotees. Pure devotee means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. They have no other desire. Others, the jñānīs, they have desire to merge into the existence of the Lord. They want that. And the yogis, they, by the grace of the Supreme Paramātmā, they want to get some siddhis, aṣṭa-siddhi. But the bhaktas, they do not want mukti or siddhi; they simply want to serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is pure devotion.

*So in this life also, we can utilize these earthly things, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. We can utilize all these material elements in the service of the Lord. So with the earth, we can prepare the forms of the Lord, we can prepare the temple of the Lord, so many things. That is required. That is sāttvika. It is called here bhāvanaṁ brahmaṇaḥ sthānaṁ dhāraṇaṁ sad-viśeṣaṇam. Sad-viśeṣaṇam. Sad-viśeṣa and asad-viśeṣa. This is asad-viśeṣa. This is to be understood. Asato mā sad gama. That is the Vedic injunction. Asad-viśeṣa... Just like we have got this city, the roads, the cars, the buildings, and so many other things, transformation of the same earth, but they are asad-viśeṣa. They will not stay. Here anything-the house, the car, the road, the city, the body, the society, the friendship, the nation*-they are all asat. But the same thing can be done, sad-viśeṣa. Sad-viśeṣa. This temple is sad-viśeṣa. The Deity is sad-viśeṣa. Worshiping the Deity is sad-viśeṣa. So we can utilize. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate.

*That is the instruction of the Gosvāmīs. We are follower of the Gosvāmīs, six Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana. Śrī*-rūpa-sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha śrī-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha. Six Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana. Rūpa, Sanātana. Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. These are six Gosvāmīs. In Vṛndāvana they inaugurated the bhakti cult by the instruction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu sent His different devotees in different parts of India. And, of course, He desired that His devotees should go all the parts of the world. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. But He began in India. So their residential quarter was in Vṛndāvana, and they wrote innumerable books. And Nityānanda Prabhu went to Bengal. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally traveled all over India, especially South India. In this way, preaching was His main mission of life. He gave up His family life. Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ dharmiṣṭha ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam, māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayā [SB 11.5.34]. He wanted to show His mercy to the fallen souls of this yuga, Kali-yuga. Therefore, as just a young man, twenty-four years old, He gave up His family. Sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm. His family was very, very nice family, mother and wife, very affectionate mother, very beautiful wife, but He gave up everything. Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ dharmiṣṭha ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam [SB 11.5.34]. He went to forest. That means He accepted this sannyāsa order just to preach and to elevate the fallen souls. Māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayā.

*So this is Vaiṣṇava principle. Vaiṣṇava principle means everything accepted as Kṛṣṇa's. The Māyāvādīs, they say-at least they say-that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Mithyā: "This is false." But Vaiṣṇava says, "No, it is not false. It is the by-product of Kṛṣṇa's energy. If Kṛṣṇa is true, how it can be false?" So they do not take this world, material world, as false. It is temporary, but they know how to utilize this material world for devotional service. Bhāvanaṁ brahmaṇaḥ sthānam. You can utilize the same energy of constructing something out of bricks and stones and wood into a nice temple. That was the Vedic culture. Still in old cities you will find in lanes and streets, there are so many temples. I have seen, especially in Kanpur. Even within the lane there are so many temples, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temple, Viṣṇu temples, Śiva temple. So all over India you will find the temples. People were so spiritually advanced, even Muslim. They are also. They have constructed so many mosques. So that should be utilized. If we have got the tendency for making a house or construction of some building with stones and bricks, let it be utilized for constructing temple of the Supreme Brahman.

*Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. We do not give up anything; *everything Kṛṣṇa's. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Hari means God, the Supreme Lord. So He has got sambandha, relationship, because everything is His energy. Therefore it has got some relationship. Earth, water, air, fire, sky-these are all different energies of Kṛṣṇa. Bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. So it has got some relationship. So when it is utilized for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy is utilized for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. And when Kṛṣṇa's energy is utilized for our sense gratification, that is called demonism. The same thing. Same thing you utilize for Kṛṣṇa-that is bhakti. And same thing you utilize for your sense gratification*-that is demonism. You... Actually, you cannot do so. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Suppose something belongs to me, and if you do not utilize it for me, you utilize it for you, so I must be sorry, that "How is that? My things are being utilized for you." Of course, this is a crude example. But the philosophy is: everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Sarva... Kṛṣṇa said, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor. So because He is the proprietor, He is the proprietor of my body also. Therefore it should be-everything should be-utilized for Kṛṣṇa. This is bhakti. We should not give up. You cannot give up anything.

*Suppose you are nicely dressed, and if you give up everything and you take one kaupīna, but that is also a dress. So we have to utilize Kṛṣṇa's thing, but if we take it, accept it as prasādam after offering Kṛṣṇa... In the Vaiṣṇava philosophy, if somebody is going to use one new pair of cloth, first of all he offers to Kṛṣṇa. Then he utilizes. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. There is also eating, sleeping. We require residence. Everything we require. But we require it as Kṛṣṇa's prasāda. Prasāde sarva*-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. Simply we have to admit, "After all, Kṛṣṇa is giving us everything." So simply Kṛṣṇa wants, "Let us admit that you are getting from Me." That is necessary. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is supplying us everything, even to the nondevotees. But the nondevotee do not recognize that "It is Kṛṣṇa's prasādam; by mercy of Kṛṣṇa, I have got it." That is nondevotee. And a devotee recognizes. This is the distinction between devotee and nondevotee.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to turn the consciousness. Everyone is thinking in a different way, consciousness. We are just trying to transfer their consciousness into Kṛṣṇa. Then he will be happy. Sadā tad*-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. If we practice like that, then we become eligible to be transferred to the spiritual world. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram. We have to give up this body. But if we give up this body, at the time of death, if we can think of Kṛṣṇa, it is very difficult, but if we practice it... Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Sadā means always. If we practice this simple method: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma..., then it is possible. So where is the difficulty? Where is the loss? If we ask you to do something, if you think there will be loss, you may reject it. But if there is no loss and the gain is that you get Kṛṣṇa, then why don't you do it? Such is our, what is called, bigotry, "No, we shall not chant. We shall not do this." This is our misfortune. Therefore, those who have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they are the most fortunate persons in the world. Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam, the śāstra says. Aho bata śva-paco 'to garīyān: "Even one is born in the family of dog-eaters, but somehow or other, if he takes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he is garīyān, he is glorious. He is very glorious." Nāma tubhyam. Tepus tapas te: [SB 3.33.7] "It is to be understood in their previous life they undergone severe type of penances and austerities." Tepus tapas te sasnur āryāḥ: [SB 3.33.7] "They are really Aryan."

*So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is very authentic movement from the śāstra, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu practiced it, Nārada Muni practiced it. All the great sages, they practice it. The śāstra says, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. In this age, Kali-yuga, we are surrounded by so many faulty things checking our spiritual advancement of life. That is the only necessity of human being, the spiritual advancement of life. So far eating, sleeping, sex life, and defense, everyone is doing in his own capacity. That is not the business. That is there. Even the birds, beasts, they are doing that. The only business of human life: athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Supreme, the same Brahman. Brahmaṇaḥ sthānam, bhāvanaṁ brahmaṇaḥ sthānam. Always think of brahma. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. These thoughts, these activities, they are required. That is the only business. But we have manufactured so many other business and engagement, leaving aside the real business of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching all over the world the real business of life. Those who are fortunate, they will take advantage of this movement and make his life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750122SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.26.47

-

Bombay, January 22, 1975



Nitāi: "The sense whose object of perception is sound is called the auditory sense, and that whose object of perception is touch is called the tactile sense."



Prabhupāda:



*nabho*-guṇa-viśeṣo 'rtho

yasya tac chrotram ucyate

*vāyor guṇa*-viśeṣo 'rtho

yasya tat sparśanaṁ viduḥ

[SB 3.26.47]



*So ether, the sky, we cannot see, we cannot touch, we cannot smell. But we can hear the sound. As soon as there is sound, that, we know that there is ether or sky. The sound vibration... As we have got experience of this material sound and therefore the material sky, similarly, there is spiritual sound and there is spiritual sky. Without sky, there is no sound. So there is spiritual sky. We get information from śāstra: paravyoma. Vyoma is called sky, and there is another sky. This is material sky, what we have experience. There is spiritual sky. And about that spiritual realization, as this creation begins from the sky*-ether, then air, then fire, and then water, then land, kṣitir āp tejo marud vyoma-similarly, the spiritual world also begins from the spiritual sky. After this sky ends, then the spiritual sky begins.



*That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ: [Bg. 8.20] "There is another bhāva," means nature, "that is sanātana nature, eternal nature." This nature, this sky, is temporary. It has got a duration of life, maybe millions and trillions of years, but it is not permanent. It is emanating from the Supreme Lord's breathing period. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. So after this sky, there is another sky, and the sound produced from that sky is oṁkāra and Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is the sound vibration from the spiritual sky. Therefore it is effective immediately. Just like you contact thousands of miles away-somebody is speaking, and you can contact by the sound vibration you catch up with your machine, radio machine-similarly, the sound vibration from the spiritual sky you can also receive. That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

*Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has described this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, "not of this material sky." Golokera prema*-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. Hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, this is not a material sound. And in the Vedānta it is stated, śabdād anāvṛtti. By chanting the spiritual sound... The impersonalists, they chant oṁkāra. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. All Vedic mantras are preceded by the spiritual oṁkāra. That oṁkāra... Kṛṣṇa says, akṣarāṇām akāro 'smi. Vedeṣu, praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu, A, U, M, These are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So either you vibrate oṁkāra or Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they belong to the spiritual world. This sound does not belong to this material. Material sound, if you chant once, twice, thrice, you will feel disgusted. But spiritual sound, if you chant twenty-four hours, you will never feel disgusted, but you will feel more and more spiritual bliss. That is the difference. Actually, you see these boys and girls and others, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa practically from early in the morning, 5:00 till 10:00, daily, but nobody is feeling any disgust. They like to chant. That is the difference between material sound and spiritual sound.

*So we can enter into the spiritual world, the spiritual sky. The spiritual sky is there. Sanātana. That is eternal. Sanātana. Everything eternal there. In the material world they are, everything, temporary, asat. And everything in the spiritual world, that is called sat. Oṁ tat sat. That is spiritual world. So the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gama: "Try to transcend from this asat, material world, to go to the spiritual world, sat." Oṁ tat sat. That is actually our business. In the human form of life this is the only business: "How to transfer me to the spiritual world." Sanātana. "Because I am sanātana." Jīva*-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Jīva is sanātana, eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The jīva is never destroyed after the destruction or annihilation of this body. He is eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So this is our business, that "I am eternal. As Kṛṣṇa, God, is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and I am part and parcel of sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, so as Kṛṣṇa is eternal, so I am also eternal." The Vedic mantra says that nityo nityānām. Kṛṣṇa is nitya, eternal, and we are plural number, nityānām. Cetanaś cetanānām. Sat cit... So as Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, so we are also sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. The difference is: Kṛṣṇa is the maintainer, Viṣṇu is the maintainer, and we are maintained. We are not maintainer.

*There are millions and trillions of living entities, not only in this universe. There are millions and trillions of universes, and there are millions and trillions of planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Koṭiṣu, there are innumerable universes, and as you see, experience, within this universe, within this ball-like sky... In the even..., in the night at least, we can see so many twinkling stars. Similarly, there are innumerable universes. And there are innumerable... In each and every universe there are innumerable, these planets. This is called material world. You cannot estimate how many universes are there and how many planets are there. But this is only one-fourth manifestation of God's creation. All these universes taken together, ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]*-this is only one-fourth manifestation. Therefore the Vaikuṇṭha, spiritual world, is called tripāda-vibhūti, three-fourth. This is one fourth. So just imagine. We cannot have any estimation even the one-fourth manifestation of the one-fourth energy of God, and what to speak of the three-fourth energy manifestation, opulence, everything. In the spiritual world the number of living entities are far greater than the number of living entities here in this material world.

And there are also spiritual planets.

*goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya

*devī*-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu

*te te prabhāva*-nicayā vihitāś ca yena

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.43]



*This is Govinda. Govinda is one, and... Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. And ekaṁ bahu syām. And He has become so many. Just like from the seed, one seed, a small seed, when it is grown up, fructified, you will find big banyan tree and so many big, big branches, twigs, so many fruits. And each fruit contains again the seed, and each seed contains again millions of trees. This is creation. But the origin is one. Origin is one. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], Kṛṣṇa. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The Bhagavān is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. These are the shastric vacana.



*So here is also sound. Here is also sky. So as the beginning of this material world is from the sound vibration... I think the scientists also agree, the materialistic scientists, that from sound everything emanates. So similarly, the same sound, you can enter into the spiritual world by taking shelter of sound. That sound vibration is Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, by chanting this transcendental, eternal sound, you can approach. Just like by telephone... That is also sound: "Kring, kring, kring." Immediately you in touch with your friend thousands and thousands miles away. So sound is so important thing. So by spiritual sound, you can become immediately in touch with the spiritual world, and gradually you become in touch with the Supreme Lord. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51].

*Kṛṣṇa has got so many expansions. Rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, Kūrma, Vāmana, so many, hundreds of thousands. But Kṛṣṇa is the...

*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*The original person, the Supreme Lord-kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]*-He also comes. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, that is Kṛṣṇa's expansion, incarnation. They also come, and Kṛṣṇa also come. Kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yaḥ. He is the Supreme Person, pumān. Pumān means the puruṣa, the enjoyer, the proprietor. That is Kṛṣṇa. So immediately you can be in touch with Kṛṣṇa by vibrating this sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is so potent. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. The name of Kṛṣṇa is cintāmaṇi, transcendental. It is not this material sound, material name. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya. Living force, caitanya. It is not dead sound. If you want water, if you chant only "Water, water, water, water," you will not get water, because it is material sound. The water substance is different from the word water. Therefore, simply by chanting "water, water," you cannot quench your thirst. You must have the substance water. That is material sound. Anything you take, simply by chanting the name, you will not get the thing. That is material.



*But in the spiritual world, the name and the person or the substance is the same. There is no difference. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is the same. There is no difference. Therefore, those who are chanting "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," they are becoming more and more engladdened, enthusiastic to chant. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, the first installment of benefit is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam: [Cc. Antya 20.12] you become cleansed of your heart, cleansed of the contamination of your heart." There are many verses. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you don't get anything because there is nāma-aparādha, offenses in chanting... There are ten kinds of offenses. So if you can avoid the offenses... The name is pure, "Kṛṣṇa." But even though it is chanted offensive, by chanting, chanting, you become cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. It may take little time, but be sure that your consciousness will be cleansed, clear, transparent, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The... At the present moment we have got consciousness, but that is contaminated. "I am American conscious," "I am Indian conscious." Somebody is dog conscious, cat conscious, so many consciousness. But by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, this contamination of the consciousness will be cleansed, crystalized. It will be. Then you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*And as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are in direct touch. We are direct in touch with Kṛṣṇa, but it is covered by some cloud of ignorance. Otherwise, nothing can exist without Kṛṣṇa's touch. That is not possible. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4]. Kṛṣṇa is... One Kṛṣṇa is expanded all over the creation. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but due to the contamination of material modes of nature, we are thinking we are apart from Kṛṣṇa, separate from Kṛṣṇa, or we do not know Kṛṣṇa, although we are in touch. So that is to be cleansed. The via media impediment has to be cleansed. That is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. By chanting this transcendental vibration, your heart will be cleansed. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. The more you chant and hear, śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, then it becomes pious activities.

*Pious activities means becoming free from the impious, sinful reaction. That is the result. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa vibration, the sound, you gradually become cleansed. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Ceto-darpaṇa. Darpaṇa means mirror. Just like in the mirror there are dust covering. You cannot see your face clearly. But if it is very nicely cleansed, then you can see how beautiful is your face. So similarly, as soon as you begin chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, you gradually become self-realized, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, simply by chanting. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, you can understand. Then, gradually, what is the duty... Simply to understand ahaṁ brahma, so 'ham, "I am spirit soul..." So 'ham means "I am the same spirit soul as Kṛṣṇa is, as God is," not that "I become Kṛṣṇa." That is mistake. That means it is not cleansed. You can become qualitatively one with Kṛṣṇa, but if you think that you have become Kṛṣṇa, Māyāvāda philosophy, that means your heart is not yet cleansed. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Those who are thinking that... It is called ahaṅgrahopāsanā, ekatvena, to become one. One in quality, not in quantity. We cannot become God. That is not possible. But we can attain God's quality. Now we are... We have all God's quality because we are part and parcel of God, but it is covered by the material modes of nature. Tri-guṇa. Manyate tri-guṇātmakam. Yayā vimohito jīva manyate tri-guṇātmakam: "Being covered by this illusory energy, the jīva, the living being, although it is transcendental, as good as Kṛṣṇa, but," manyate tri-guṇātmakam, "he is thinking that 'I am one of the products of this material world.' " This is called māyā. This is called illusion. This is called ignorance.

*So ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12] means you will be freed from this ignorance, that "I am something of this material world." This is wanted. So long we are not realized, self-realized, then we are no better than these cats and dogs, because they do not know that he is not the body. So if we think that "I am this body," then we are no better than the cats and dogs. So if you want to become happy, first of all we must get this knowledge, that "I am not this body." Now we are busy with the bodily demands of life. We are not busy for spiritual demand of life. That is the business of the human being, that "I am not this material body. I am spirit soul. So my business is different from the business at the present moment we are engaged in." Everyone is engaged for satisfying the bodily necessities of life, everyone. The cats and dogs, animals, they are also busy how to fulfill the demands of the body. The demands of the body are four: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Āhāra means eating, and nidrā... Nidrā means sleeping, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya. Bhaya means to become fearful, to become anxious, full of anxieties. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya. And maithuna, and sexual intercourse. So these are the demands of the body. They are called viṣaya. Viṣaya means so-called enjoyable, viṣaya. But the Vaiṣṇava says that viṣaya chāḍiyā, se rase majiyā, mukhe bolo hari hari. The transcendental sound Hari, Hare Kṛṣṇa, should be chanted, viṣaya chāḍiyā, without any attraction for this viṣaya. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Then it will be perfect. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau **.

*The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over these things. Nidrāhāra-vihāra. That is required. That is spiritual life. If you are embarrassed with these four things, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca, then we are not making progress in spiritual life. It should be reduced. Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī did. All the Gosvāmīs*-they had no business. But that is very difficult. If one has to imitate the behavior of Rūpa Gosvāmī and all the Gosvāmīs, it is very difficult. Therefore yukta-vairāgya. We must eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam as much as it is needed for maintaining my body. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-mai... In this way, spiritual progress of life... But it will be very easy if we chant this transcendental vibration, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, offenselessly, niraparādhe. Then immediately you become advanced. Not only advanced, actually spiritual situated.

*So the sound is very important thing. The sound is the cause of our bondage in this material world. Just like in big, big cities they are attached to the sound vibrated by the cinema artist. And not only that, so many other things we are hearing through the radio message. Attachment for the sound. And because it is material sound, we are becoming materially entangled, entangled more and more. Some actress, some cinema artist, singing, and people are so fond of hearing that singing that the artist is paid fifteen thousand rupees for one song. There are many here in Bombay. So just see how much attraction we have got for the material sound vibration. Similarly, the same attachment, if we turn to hear about Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, then we become liberated, the same sound. One is material; one is spiritual. So you practice to be attached by this spiritual sound vibration. Then your life will be successful.

*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose, that "You have already attachment for sound. Now just transfer this attachment for spiritual sound. Then your life will be successful." This is Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, teaching people how to transfer the attachment from material sound to the spiritual sound. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore sings, golokera prema*-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy. This sound coming from the spiritual world, golokera prema-dhana, by chanting, by hearing this sound, we shall develop our original dormant love for God. That is wanted. Premā pum-artho mahān. In the material world we are accepting dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41] as very important. Puruṣārtha. Dharma, to become religious, and by becoming religious, we develop our economic development. Dhanaṁ dehi, rūpaṁ dehi, yaśo dehi, dehi dehi. Kāma. Why dehi dehi? Now, kāma, to fulfill our desires, lusty desires. Dharmārtha-kāma, and when we are disgusted or unable to fulfill desires, then we want mokṣa, to become one with God. This is the four kinds of material business. But spiritual business is premā pum-artho mahān. To achieve love of Godhead, that is the highest perfection. Premā pum-artho mahān.



*So to achieve this goal of life, premā pum*-artho mahān, in this age especially, in Kali-yuga, because we cannot do any other thing, it is very, very difficult. The time is very obstacle, full of obstacles. Therefore kalau... This is the method, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam: [Cc. Ādi 17.21] "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra," kevalam, "only." Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. In the Kali-yuga, because main business is how to get relief from this material bondage... Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. People do not understand even that what is really our distress. Kṛṣṇa says, the Supreme Personality of Godhead says personally, "These are your miseries." What? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: [Bg. 13.9] "Repetition of birth and death. This is your real misery of life." What you are thinking of this misery or that misery? They are all temporary. They are all under the laws of material nature. You cannot get out of it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti will force you to do something because you have contaminated the material modes of nature. Therefore you have to act under the direction of this prakṛti, material nature. And so long you are under this material nature, you have to accept this birth, death, old age and disease. This is your real misery. We are thinking temporary miserable condition. Śāstra says that "You don't require to adjust temporary material misery or happiness, because they will come and go. You are destined to certain type of miserable condition of life, certain type of so-called happy life. That will automatically come and go just like seasonal changes." Āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. We are very much happy when we are in a very good condition of life. But that will also not stay. That will also go away. Then miserable condition. Cakravat parivartante sukhāni ca duḥkhāni ca. Sometimes happy, sometimes miserable.

*So if you are actually interested to get out of miserable condition, then try to get out of these four miserable condition of life: janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. That is intelligence. Don't be bothered with the temporary miserable or happy. They will come and go. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. If you cannot bear, then try to tolerate. That is the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā, tolerance. We should not be disturbed, "Now I am in miserable condition." Tolerate. The miserable condition will come this material world. Don't be very much happy when you are in happy condition of life; neither you become mad in miserable condition of life. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and make your life success. That is required. This is the propaganda of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Canto 3.28: Lectures





750601SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.28.1

-

Honolulu, June 1, 1975



Prabhupāda: You have got book? [break]



Devotee: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees respond) [break]



Prabhupāda: Word meaning.



Devotee: (leads chanting of synonyms) "The Personality of Godhead said:. My dear mother, O daughter of the King, now I shall explain to you the system of yoga, the object of which is to concentrate the mind. By practicing this system one can become joyful and progressively advance towards the path of the Absolute Truth."



Prabhupāda:



śrī bhagavān uvāca

yogasya lakṣaṇaṁ vakṣye

sabījasya nṛpātmaje

mano yenaiva vidhinā

*prasannaṁ yāti sat*-patham

[SB 3.28.1]



*So this word yoga is very popular in the Western countries. Practically everyone knows the word at least, yoga. And many so*-called yogis come here, and I do not want to discuss. But yoga is a very nice process by which you can make your mind very peaceful, and then you can make progress towards spiritual life, sat-pathe. Our, there are two ways. One is called sat-patha, and one is called asat-patha. Asat-patha means..., asat means which will not exist. That is called asat. And sat means which will exist. The spirit will exist; matter will be finished. Now you have got this body. You have got this body. This body will be finished, everyone knows. But the spirit soul within the body, that will not finish. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. That is spiritual education in the beginning. We should understand what is spirit, sat. Asato mā sad gamaḥ. This is the Vedic instruction. "Don't make much progress on the path of nonpermanent things." This is Vedic injunction. Asato mā sad gamaḥ Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't keep yourself in darkness. Make progress towards the light."



*So here also the same thing is stated*-that yoga process is to keep the mind in peaceful condition, tranquillity, and then you can concentrate your mind towards the Supreme Absolute. This is yoga process, not a gymnastic, a gymnastic āsana: yāma, niyama, aṣṭāṅga-yoga. Aṣṭāṅga, eight kinds of practices, āsana. Āsana, the generally the yogis come here to show you the āsana, how to sit in different posture. That is mechanical. That is also very nice to bring the mind under control. But real business is after your mind is controlled. These processes which generally the yogis demonstrate, that is the process of controlling the mind. The real meaning of yoga: yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. The authorities of yoga practice, they say the yoga practice means to control the senses. That is the yoga practice.

*So here Kapiladeva... Kapiladeva is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān Kapila. There are twelve authorized persons who can give you real knowledge of spiritual life. So out of the twelve persons, Kapiladeva is one. It is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam,

svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kapila kumār manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



It was spoken by Yamarāja to the servants who went to take Ajāmila to hellish condition of life and he was saved by the Viṣṇudūta. Because at the end of his life he chanted "Nārāyaṇa." Actually, Nārāyaṇa was his youngest son, and he was very much attached to the little boy. So when Yamadūta in ferocious feature came to take him, he became too much afraid, and because he was accustomed to his son, Nārāyaṇa, so out of fear he chanted very loudly, "Nārāyaṇa, please come. Who are these men?" So simply by chanting "Nārāyaṇa," immediately from Vaikuṇṭha the servants of Nārāyaṇa came, and they saved him from the hands of Yamadūta. That will be explained in the Sixth Canto how simply by chanting the name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead at the end of life, ante nārāyaṇa smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6], that is the perfection of life. If at the end of life you can remember Nārāyaṇa, then life is successful. You go back to home, back to Godhead.



*So the real purpose is that we should give up this asat*-patha. You sit properly, it is not... Asat-patha and sat-patha. Here it is said sat-patham. Sat-patham means our permanent goal of life. We are now interested with nonpermanent goal of life. People are thinking, "If I get a nice car, a nice apartment, a nice wife, a nice bank balance, then I will be happy." But this is asat, because none of this will stay. The bank balance also will not stay, the wife also will not stay, and good position, that will not... As soon as the body is finished, everything is finished. Therefore they are called asat. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, sat-saṅga chāḍi'kainu asate vilāsa, te-kāraṇe lāgila mor karma-bandha-phāṅsa. Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means persons who are making progress towards the permanent life. They are called sat. Just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement means we are training our disciples how to make progress towards permanent life. And the material world means they are making progress towards nonpermanent life. So those who are intelligent, they are not interested in nonpermanent life. And those who are foolish, mūḍha, they are interested in this temporary life, and they do not know what is there after death, neither they have got any knowledge what is spirit, what is matter. Ignorance. In darkness.

*Therefore one is recommended to associate with sat. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya*-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. Satāṁ prasaṅgān. In the association of devotees the discussion on the matter of the Absolute Truth becomes very palatable. We have to hear about the Absolute Truth through the association of persons who are endeavoring to make progress towards eternal life, sat-patham. Yogasya lakṣaṇam. What are the symptoms of yoga? Kapiladeva, Kapiladeva is son of Devahūti. Devahūti is the mother of Kapiladeva. The mother is taking instruction from son. So it doesn't matter. One should not think, "Oh, he is my son. What instruction I shall take from him? I know better than him." No. Son or anyone, anyone, if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa he becomes guru. This is the Vedic system. It doesn't matter. Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born in a very respectable brāhmaṇa family. He was very advanced learned scholar, and after all He took sannyāsa. So when He was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha, householder and governor of Madras, means politician. A householder, politician, and he was born not in brāhmaṇa family; in kāraṇa, kāyastha family. They are considered as śūdras. So he had no position to instruct Caitanya Mahāprabhu. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him the place of instructor and He took the position of a listener. Just see Caitanya Mahāprabhu's pastimes. He gave him the position of instructor and He took the position of student, listener.

*So Rāmānanda Rāya was feeling a little agitation, that "How is that? I am a gṛhastha, householder, not even born in high family, brāhmaṇa family. And I am engaged in politics, I am governor, and He is a sannyāsī, renounced order of life. How is that that He is asking question and I am replying? The question is enquired by the student, and the answer is given by the spiritual master. So how is that?" He was feeling little agitation. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately encouraged him, "Don't hesitate." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's example. He is teaching everything by His personal example. His purpose was that in this Kali*-yuga the distinction between brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra will be almost finished. Then who will instruct? Because the instructor's position is brāhmaṇa. One must be brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa's business is paṭhan pāṭhan yajan yājan dāna pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa should be personally very highly learned scholar. Therefore brāhmaṇa is called paṇḍita. Even in India, still a brāhmaṇa is addressed, "paṇḍitji." He may be a fool number one, but he is addressed like that, "Paṇḍitji." So because without becoming a learned scholar nobody can become a brāhmaṇa... We are also giving our student position as brāhmaṇa, but if he remains a fool number one, then we are misusing our attempt. He should be very learned scholar. That should be the aim. And there is no difficulty to become a learned scholar because we have got so many books. You simply read and digest what we are speaking. Not that we are simply meant for selling books. We are reading. We must read. Then our position as brāhmaṇa will be fulfilled. Because brāhmaṇas are teacher. Anyone who can teach, he is brāhmaṇa. So unless you read thoroughly what you are going to speak to the world, how you can become a brāhmaṇa and paṇḍita? You should carefully note this.

*Anyway, Rāmānanda Rāya, he was very learned although he was not born in a brāhmaṇa family. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was taking lessons from him. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, kibā vipra, kibā śūdra, nyāsī kene naya yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā: "Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes a guru." So every one of you can become guru provided you understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. The science of Kṛṣṇa... (aside:) Who is spreading leg like that? He can sit back side. This is not the way. Science of Kṛṣṇa, first of all one must know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is being explained by Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā, and when he understands what is Kṛṣṇa, then he can hear further about Kṛṣṇa. The books are there, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Nectar of Devotion, Teachings of Lord Caitanya*-all we are teaching the science of Kṛṣṇa. So here also Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya: [Cc. Madhya 8.128] "Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become guru." That is our mission. That is not my mission; that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. So it doesn't matter you Europeans, Americans although not born in brāhmaṇa family. It doesn't matter. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's approval. If you try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa, then, and if you behave properly, you can teach about Kṛṣṇa all over your country, all over the world. That is my mission. And that is approved by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then you will be able to preach nicely and people will be benefited.

So here Devahūti (s)he is taking lesson from his (her) son. The son is given birth by the mother. She may think that "I have given birth to you. What you will teach me?" No. Because he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa. Or He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Therefore she is taking lesson from her son, exalted son. She is very fortunate lady, Devahūti. She is addressed here, nṛpātmaje. Nṛpa means king; *ātma*-ja means offspring. So she was the daughter of the emperor of the higher planetary system, Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. The Vaivasvata Manu's name you have heard in the Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāhuḥ [Bg. 4.1]. This Manu, Vaivasvata Manu, vivasvān manave prāhuḥ. The sun-god, whose name is Vivasvān, he spoke to his son, Manu. This Manu is the father of Devahūti. She is not ordinary girl. So how fortunate she was. She was the daughter of Vaivasvata Manu. She... Vaivasvata Manu was the emperor of the heavenly planet. And the wife of Kardama Muni. Kardama Muni was a great yogi. So while practicing yoga, he thought of marrying. That, it is natural among young men. So this Devahūti's father... The Devahūti proposed to her father, "My dear father, I wish to marry the Kardama Muni. He is practicing yoga in such and such place. If you will take me there then I shall be very pleased." So Manu, the king, he thought that "My daughter wants to marry this yogi. All right, let me take her there." And she was brought by the king, and Kardama Muni was said that "I have brought my daughter and you marry him (her)." And he thought that "I wanted to marry, so Kṛṣṇa has sent such a beautiful, exalted girl, daughter of the emperor of the..." So he accepted. And he left the daughter with Kardama Muni and he went away.

So this princess, means daughter of Manu, she began to serve Kardama Muni. And in the yoga āśrama, it was a cottage, and there was no good food, no maidservant, nothing of the sort. So became gradually very lean and thin, and she was very beautiful, king's daughter. So Kardama Muni thought that "Her father gave me, and she is becoming deteriorated in her health, in her beauty. So as husband, I have got to do something for her." So by yoga power he constructed a big city airplane. That is yogic power. Not 747. (laughter) A such a big city, there was lake, there was garden, there was maidservant, big, big palaces, and the whole thing was floating in the sky, and he made her see all the different planets. In this way... That is stated in the Fourth Chapter, you can read it. So as a yogi he satisfied her in every respect. And then she wanted children. So Kardama Muni begot in her nine daughters and one son, with the promise that "As soon as you get your children, then I will go away. I am not going to live forever with you." So she agreed. So after getting the children out of which this Kapiladeva was one, the son, and when He was grown up He also said, "My dear mother, My father has left home. I will also leave home. If you want to take some instruction from Me you can take. Then I shall go away." So before going away He is giving instruction to His mother.

*Now, this Devahūti's position is a perfect woman. She got good father, she got good husband, and she got excellent son. So woman has got three stages in life. Man has got ten stages. These three stages mean that when she is younger, she must live under the protection of father. Just like Devahūti when she was grown up, young, she proposed her father that "I want to marry that gentleman, that yogi." And the father also offered. So, so long she was not married she remained under the protection of the father. And when she was married she remained with the yogi husband. And she was troubled in so many ways because she was princess, daughter of king. And this yogi, he was in a cottage, no food, no shelter, nothing of the sort. So she had to suffer. She never said that "I am king's daughter. I was raised in so opulent condition of life. Now I have got a husband who cannot give me a nice apartment, nice food. Divorce him." No. That was never done. That is not the position. "Any way my husband may be, whatever he may be, because I have accepted some gentleman as my husband I must look to his comforts, and whatever his position, it doesn't matter." This is the duty of the woman. But that is Vedic instruction. Nowadays, as soon as there is little discrepancy, disagreement*-divorce. Find out another husband. No. She remained. And then she got the nicest child, Personality of Godhead, Kapila. So this is the three stages. Woman should aspire first of all, by his (her) karma one is given the place under a suitable father, and then under suitable husband, and then produce a nice child like Kapiladeva.

*So Kapiladeva is addressing His mother, nṛpātmaje: "My dear princess, the daughter of King..." He is not addressing her (His) mother as the wife of Kardama Muni. Because she would be little puffed up that "I am the daughter of king." So..., and Kapiladeva knew how to flatter woman. (chuckles) So he addressed her (His) mother, nṛpātmaje, "My dear daughter of king." She felt very much proud, "Yes, I am daughter of king." So "I will speak to you about the symptoms of yoga system." Yogasya lakṣaṇaṁ vakṣye sabījasya. With authorized statement. He is Bhagavān, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Whatever He speaks, that is authorized. You cannot argue, because for the..., for us, we are conditioned soul. We have got four defects*-means we commit mistake, we become illusioned or bewildered, our senses are imperfect, and, because everything is imperfect, still we want to become teacher, that is cheating. I am imperfect. How can I teach? That is going on. A imperfect person is teaching about transcendental knowledge. Therefore people are being cheated. Our process is to take lesson from the perfect person and distribute it, just we are doing. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are preaching what Kṛṣṇa has said, that's all. Not that we have manufactured something new. No. That is not our business. How I can manufacture? I am imperfect. How can I manufacture? But the spiritual master who follows the perfect teacher, he is perfect. He is perfect because whatever he is speaking, that is the statement of the perfect person.

*I have several times explained to you. One may be imperfect, just like a child, he is imperfect. But he has learned, he has asked his father, "My dear father, what is this?" The father has explained, "My dear child, this is microphone." So if he, if the child says, "This is microphone," then that is perfect, because he has learned it from his father, "This is microphone." So even though he is child, he is repeating the words of the father. He is fixed up, that "My father has told me this thing. It is perfect." He is convinced. So he says, "This is microphone." So, who will protest? Or how you can say, "How this child can say like..." Yes. He can say, provided he has taken the lesson from the father. This is the way. So our teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is perfect because we have taken the lesson from Kṛṣṇa. Just try to understand how perfect we are. We don't say anything as "I think," "maybe," "perhaps." No. We never say. We say definite. Definitive information. Just like they are speculating Darwin's theory of evolution. We have got perfect knowledge from the śāstras: jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Now, we say there are 900,000 forms of life within the water. We have not gone within the water; *neither as biologist we have studied. We have taken the perfect information from the perfect source. We say 900,000. This is called Vedic knowledge. This is perfect. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. This evolution theory is already mentioned. Darwin has taken this from this Vedic knowledge, and he has placed the whole thing in his imaginative way. Otherwise the evolutionary process is mentioned in the Vedic scripture. First of all aquatics, then plants and trees, then insect, then birds, then beasts, then human being. Now, in the human being form, because by gradual process of evolution we have got advance consciousness, the, I mean to say, subject matter is given to us. Now make your choice now again. Nature has given this opportunity whether you want to go the sat-patha or asat-patha; *whether you are again wish to go to the cycle of evolution or if you want to make further progress. Further progress means this human form of life you can go to the higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. Now you can make your choice. You are now civilized, very advanced intelligence. Now whether you want to go to the cycle of evolution again or whether you want to stop this and go to your original position. These two things are there: sat-patha and asat-patha. If you make further progress this asat-patha, asat-patha asat. Asat means it will not stay.

*So if you remain engaged in this bodily business, that is asat. Just try to understand what is asat. Asat means which will not stay. So everyone knows that this body will not stay. It will be ended today, tomorrow, or after years it will be finished. Therefore if you are simply engaged in the bodily concept of life, as people are generally engaged... People are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am cat," "I am dog." Every living entity is simply thinking in bodily. That is asat*-patha. If we remain on the bodily concept of life, then we are no better than the dogs and cats. But unfortunately modern civilization is going on on this bodily concept of life. That is asat-patha. But here the yoga system is being taught by Kapiladeva to His mother for... [break] The purpose is prasannaṁ yāti sat-patham. By the yoga practice, you have to make your mind very transparent, clean, and then you can go towards sat-patham, eternal life. That is being taught. So He will go on teaching.

Next verse is:

*sva*-dharmācaraṇaṁ śaktyā

vidharmāc ca nivartanam

daivāt labdhena santoṣa

*ātmavic*-caraṇārcanam



*The first step is given there, that sva*-dharmācaraṇam. Sva-dharmācaraṇaṁ śaktyā. As far as possible, be situated in your natural life. Natural life means there are three modes of material nature. So somebody is affected or infected by some modes of material nature-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So the śāstra has made the path so clear that in either of these infection, either sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, you can make progress spiritual life. Because we must be in either of these. Just like a train is going on: there is first class, second class, third class. So because the train is going, either you place yourself in the first-class compartment or second class, you will go. You will go. It is not that because you are situated in the third-class compartment the your train is not going. No, you can go. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā has taught that one can go back to home, back to Godhead, in any position, provided he knows how to tackle the situation.



*Sva*-dharma. Sva-dharma will be explained, and it is explained in the Bhagavad... Sva-dharma means one may be in goodness, one may be in passion, one may be in darkness, and one may be in mixture. So that is divided into four classes of men: the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So Bhagavad-gītā teaches us that anyone, if he worships the Supreme Personality of Godhead by sva-dharma, by his occupational duty, he also becomes perfect. For example, just like Arjuna. He was a military man, and his sva-dharma, his occupational duty, was to fight. So that fighting capacity he engaged himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, and he became a devotee. Kṛṣṇa certified, bhakto 'si. What did he do? He did not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Of course, he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra constantly because he was thinking of Kṛṣṇa. He had no other business than to think of Kṛṣṇa. But by formality he did not become a Vaiṣṇava or chanting. But he was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is certified as the foremost yogi. Yoginām api sarveṣām [Bg. 6.47].

*So that is the trick*-how we shall always think of Kṛṣṇa even we are engaged in our occupation duty. That will make us perfect. Actually, real sva-dharma is to be attached to Kṛṣṇa. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, but because we have got this material body, we have got this bodily concept of life. Therefore the Vedic injunction is divided that one class should be brāhmaṇa, one class should be kṣatriya, one class should be vaiśya, another should be śūdra. In this way they should cooperate for the ultimate benefit of life, just like in our body there is the head, there is the arm, there is the belly, and there is the leg. So we are all cooperating for upkeep of the body. Similarly, if either as a brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or as a śūdra we keep up in mind that we have to serve Kṛṣṇa, then in either position we can become perfect. That is confirmed in many places.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*In whichever position you may be, if you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa according to your capacity, sva*-dharmācaraṇa śaktyā, here it is said. Sva-dharmācaraṇaṁ śaktyā vidharmāc ca nivartanam. Vidharma vidharma means anti. Anti-occupational duty. Ultimately our occupational duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Anything which does not help me in serving Kṛṣṇa, if we give it up, and anything which helps me to serve Kṛṣṇa, if we accept, in that way if we live, then gradually we become situated in our original constitutional position, eternal servant of God. And that is the perfection of life. It will be taught gradually.



Thank you very much. (end)



751026SB.NAI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.28.17

-

Nairobi, October 26, 1975



Harikeśa: "The Lord is eternally very beautiful, and He is worshipable by all the inhabitants of every planet. He is ever youthful and always eager to bestow His blessing upon His devotees."



Prabhupāda:



*apīcya*-darśanaṁ śaśvat

*sarva*-loka-namaskṛtam

santaṁ vayasi kaiśore

*bhṛtyānugraha*-kātaram

[SB 3.28.17]



*This word is very important, bhṛtyānugraha*-kātaram. Anugraha. Anugraha means favor. Just like the father wants to favor the son always. Father wants that "My son may become very fit, competent to take all my favors." This is father's wish. Every father, even in this material world, if father is very big man, great man, he wants that "My son also, let him become bigger than me." Is it not practical? So if God, Kṛṣṇa, is the original father... Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4], Kṛṣṇa says. It is not concoction or contemplation. No. It is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says,



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

*sambhavanti mūrtayo*-yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*"I am the seed*-giving father of all living entities." It doesn't matter in different forms. He does not say that "I am the father only of the white, not of the black." He never says. He has no such distinction: white, black, European, American, or poor, rich, bird, beast, human being. No. He does not make any discrimination. He is always ready to bestow favor as the original father. That is God.



*Therefore this very word, bhṛtyānugraha*-kātaram. "How this rascal will give up this material job and come to Me and take all My favors?" This is God's desire. And we are so obstinate, we want to take some favor from this minister, that minister, this person, that person this... Failure. Kṛṣṇa says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: [Bg. 5.29] "I am friend of everyone." And here is the word, bhṛtyānugraha-kātaram. And He's very, very eager to give all His favors, and still people are not becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just see how rascal they are. So we say, anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. Is he not a rascal? He is claiming that "I am the seed-giving father of everyone," sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4], "in all species of life." He does not make any discrimination, that "I am the seed-giving father of this class of men or this species of men or for the human being." No. He says, sarva-yoniṣu. Yoni means the form. Just like you have got your different forms. But that form doesn't matter. Form is external. But the internal is the same, spirit soul. Therefore you are seeing now a new thing in the history of the world, that the Africans and Indians and the Americans and the Europeans are dancing-Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just understand. Don't be rascal and fools, that you do not understand what is the potency of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. If you become so rascal and fool, if you do not understand, then you are animal. Here is a practical example. How it has become possible that the white Americans, Europeans, and other colors and the black African, they have forgotten everything? When they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance, do they remember that "I am African," "I am American," "I am Indian"? No. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. (devotee laughs) (aside:) Why you are laughing? It is so important thing.

*So this is brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*This is brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage, practical, not that "I am Brahman. I am the same God." These rascals have spoiled the whole thing. Here is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, when you forget your material identification and you become one in connection with Kṛṣṇa, that "We are all devotees, servants of Kṛṣṇa. Let us enjoy, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance." This is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, not that artificially smoking cigarette and he has become brahma-bhūtaḥ. He is cigarette-bhutaḥ. Bhuta and cigarette smoker. How he is brahma-bhūtaḥ? These rascals say like that, table talks, "I am Brahman." Brahman. Doing all nonsense and he has become Brahman. Brahman he is. Everyone is Brahman, but there is no realization, neither they do know the method of realization. Brahman... Everyone is Brahman. There is no doubt about it. Because we are all minute part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore if Kṛṣṇa is Brahman, Parabrahman, we are also minute particle of Brahman. There is no doubt about it. Gold..., gold mine, big gold and a small particle of gold, they are qualitatively one-gold. But the gold mine is different from the gold particle. These rascals, they do not understand it. The gold particle is claiming to become the gold mine. This is Māyāvāda. And they are making people atheist. So 'ham. So 'ham, it is Vedic version. That is all right. "What is God, I am also the same thing." But not... "The same thing" does not mean that as God is powerful, I am also powerful. No. You are qualitatively the same thing. That's all right. But if you claim quantitatively that you are the same powerful as Kṛṣṇa, then you are mistaken. Kṛṣṇa can lift, when He is seven years' old boy, the whole mountain. And a seven years' boy, when he is here, he cannot even seven kilo. So you cannot compare with Kṛṣṇa potencies your potency. But as Kṛṣṇa, when you are out of this material conception of life, bodily concept of life, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], when you become purified by giving up these all designation...



*Designation... What is that designation? "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am African," "I am Indian," "I am European," "I am woman," "I am man," so many designations. So you have to give up these designation. You have to give up these designation. "Then, if I'll not remain African, then I'll become Indian?" No. That is also designation. "I am Hindu. I become Muslim?" No, that is also designation. You have to become purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. All kinds of designations. (child cries) (aside:) This child may be... All kind of designations. You have to give up this designation that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am African." No, no designation. Simply become pure Brahman, then pratijāne. That is called pratijāne, not that "I remain a Christian," "I remain a Hindu," "I remain black," "I am white," and "I am Brahman." No, not that. You have to give up your designation. That requires practice. And that practice means this, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Simply by chanting, you'll be purified. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And the beginning will be ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, because we have got our heart. Everyone-we are living entity*-we have got heart that is full with dirty things. That dirty things is "I am this, I am that, I am that, I am that," that dirty things. So we have to cleanse these dirty things, that "I am European," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." These are all dirty things. You have to simply think, "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. When you think like that, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then all these dirty things will automatically vanish.

*That is brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you become realized soul, that "My position is that I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." I am nobody's servant. But if one becomes Kṛṣṇa's servant, he becomes everyone's servant. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are trying to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world? Because we have accepted this principle, that "I am Kṛṣṇa's servant. Kṛṣṇa wants to deliver these rascals from this misconception of life, so let me do something for Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you are servant of Kṛṣṇa, if you actually realize, then you have to do something on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa wants. The first-class servant of he when he serves the master without asking for it. If he understands that "Master is now in need of this thing," if he brings it, oh, first-class servant. He's first-class servant because he knows the master wants it.

*So Kṛṣṇa wanted as Kṛṣṇa that "All these rascals may give up their so foolish engagements and surrender unto Me." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. That was Kṛṣṇa's last word in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa wants this, that "These rascals they are suffering in this material condition of life, three miserable condition, and still, they are so rascal, they do not come to their senses. Still, they want to remain servant of māyā. So let Me directly say, 'You rascal, give up all this engagement. Surrender unto Me.' " That is Kṛṣṇa. But they will not do it. "Why shall I surrender? I have got so many things. I have got my nation, I have got my family, I have got my this, I have got Why shall I surrender to You? Give up everything?" Such a rascal, cannot be convinced any way. Whole world is servant of somebody, but he declines to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the disease, material disease. He will remain servant of thousands and millions of establishment and person, but he will disagree. As soon as Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up. You become My servant," "No, no. Why can I? Why shall I do?" This is materialist.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa came as Kṛṣṇa's servant. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Rūpa Gosvāmī understood. When he first saw Caitanya Mahāprabhu he offered his respect in this way, namo mahā-vadānyāya: "the most munificent, charitably disposed incarnation." Why? Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "People cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, but You are so merciful, You are giving direct love of Kṛṣṇa." When there is question of love? Unless I understand you fully-what kind of man you are, what is your position*-you also understand, when we find of the same category or same..., then there is question of love. So people do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa. How they will love Kṛṣṇa? It is not possible. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many, many millions of persons, somebody may try to become perfect. They do not know how to become perfect. They remain cats and dogs, simply engaged in eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They are cats and dogs. They are not human being. What is the difference between cats and dogs and human being? Human being is also interested. So long this body is there, we are interested in eating, sleeping, mating or de... But that is not our main business. Our main business is how to understand God and love Him. That is our main business.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*This is the business. We are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, this, that. They are all third class, cheating religion. What is real religion? That is religion which teaches how to love God. That is religion. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is first*-class religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion or Christian religion. If it teaches how to become lover of God, then it is first-class. And what for this love? Ahaituki: "without any cause." People love somebody else to get some return. No. Ahaituki: "without any expectation of return." Anyābhilāṣitā-śūṇyam [Brs. 1.1.11].



*Just like these European, American or African boys. They have joined this Kṛṣṇa con... They have not come here for some material progress. No. They have not come here. Others may come. You can say, "The Africans are poor. They have come." No. Nobody has come for material profit. What about the Europeans, Americans? They are not poor. They have got enough money. Why they are after Kṛṣṇa consciousness, after me? I am not rich man. No. That is called ahaituki, without any motive. Nobody. "Kṛṣṇa is my lovable, worshipable. I shall worship Kṛṣṇa." This is wanted. Ahaituky apratihatā. And if you have got this intention, that "Kṛṣṇa is my Lord. I must love Kṛṣṇa. I must learn how to love Him," then apratihatā*-no material condition can check it. Either you become American or African, black and white or this or that, nothing can check you. You can go on-if it is motiveless. This is wanted.

*So I am very glad that you are trying to capture what is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And this is the only process. Think always... Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām [Bg. 18.65]. Think always, "Kṛṣṇa is my Lord." That is thinking. This thinking should be always. It doesn't cost anything. If you think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is my Lord," what does it cost? And where is the loss? There is no loss, but the gain is enormous if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. And who will engage his mind in Kṛṣṇa unless he is a devotee? How you become devotee? Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda... [SB 7.5.23]. This śravanaṁ kīrtanam. Simply hear about Kṛṣṇa, chant about Kṛṣṇa. Then you become automatically. You don't require any education. Simply sit down and hear about Kṛṣṇa. Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Not other subject matter. Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you do not understand, if you simply hear the chanting, you become pious. You become pious.

*So this is the simplest method how to make life sublime and superb, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And here it is said that apīcya*-darśanaṁ śaśvat sarva-loka-namaskṛtam. Sarva-loka-namaskṛtam. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is worshipable by the devotees. He is worshipable by the nondevotees also. But how the nondevotees are worship How Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by the nondevotees? They do not want to worship Kṛṣṇa. How he makes...? He doesn't want. That's all right. But nature will oblige him to worship. How he can escape the laws of nature? Kṛṣṇa will come before you as death, and you have to worship Him. Kṛṣṇa says, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. If you do not take advantage of worshiping Kṛṣṇa within your lifetime, Kṛṣṇa will come, just like Nṛsiṁhadeva came to Hiraṇyakaśipu: "You rascal, now do you think that you are independent? Do you think?" Immediately finished, within a second.

*So if you don't worship Kṛṣṇa during your lifetime, then you have to worship at the time of your death, and He will take away all your possession. Therefore He is worshipable by everyone, devotee and nondevotee. The devotee take advantage of this life and worship Him, and the rascal, fools, demons, they are forced to worship Kṛṣṇa at the time of death. Therefore it is called sarva-loka-namaskṛtam. You have to worship Him. You cannot escape, you rascal. If you escape, then the time will come*-He will take you, He'll take everything, all your possession, and the nature will give you the body of a dog. Just go on, barking, for so many years. This is the law of nature. You cannot stop it. It is not possible. You better take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and worship as sane man, as nice gentleman. Then your life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



751027SB.NAI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.28.18

-

Nairobi, October 27, 1975



Harikeśa: "The glory of the Lord is always worth singing, for His glories enhance the glories of His devotees. One should therefore meditate upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead and upon His devotees. One should meditate on the eternal form of the Lord until the mind becomes fixed."



Prabhupāda:



*kīrtanya*-tīrtha-yaśasaṁ

*puṇya-śloka*-yaśaskaram

dhyāyed devaṁ samagrāṅgaṁ

yāvan na cyavate manaḥ

[SB 3.28.18]



*This is called meditation. Yāvan, so long the mind is disturbed and deviates from our subject of meditation, one should practice this kīrtana. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises that the devotee should chant always, twenty*-four hours, kīrtanya: "It is worth singing." It is worth singing, why? Puṇya ślokasya, puṇya ślokasya. Puṇya śloka yaśaskaram. Even if you do not fix up your mind... Kīrtana means fix up your mind, but even if you do not fix up your mind, then you are still gainer. The more you glorify the Lord, you become pious simply by kīrtana. It is not necessary that you understand, but if you go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then you become pious. Puṇya-śloka. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Puṇya-śloka, Uttama-śloka. Simply by chanting "Kṛṣṇa," you become pious.



*So dhyāyed devaṁ samagrāṅgam. The dhyāna, the meditation, should begin from the lotus feet. As soon as you begin kīrtana, first of all concentrate your mind on the lotus feet, not all of a sudden jump over the face. Be practiced to think over the lotus feet, then still higher, the knees, then the thighs, then the belly, then the chest. In this way, at last go to the face. This is the process. It is described in the Second Canto. The process is how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. This is meditation. So this... By kīrtana it becomes very easy. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra twenty-four hours like Haridāsa Ṭhākura... That is not possible. So as much as possible... Tīrtha-yaśasa. Kīrtana, this is also kīrtana. We are talking about Kṛṣṇa, reading about Kṛṣṇa, reading Kṛṣṇa's instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā or reading Kṛṣṇa's glories in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They are all kīrtana. It is not that simply when we sing with musical instruments, that is kīrtana. No. Anything you talk about Kṛṣṇa, that is kīrtan.

*Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31] means that... Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha*-guṇānuvarṇane. This is the character of Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, that whenever he would talk, he would talk about Kṛṣṇa. This is kīrtana. He won't talk anything else. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. Whenever he will think, he will think of Kṛṣṇa-His lotus feet, His body, His hands, His flute. This is meditation. Meditation means that... Trance means when your mind is so fixed up on Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu that not for a second your mind is deviated from the Kṛṣṇa's form. That is called trance. Not artificially. You can practice it. If you see Kṛṣṇa daily in the temple, if you worship, you offer your obeisances-man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]-naturally you will think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, and that will make you more pious, because without being pious, nobody can think of Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpam. Pious means there is no reaction of sinful life. It is all squared up. That you can do at any moment. Kṛṣṇa takes charge. Kṛṣṇa says, buddhiḥ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. He can do that. He can nullify the destiny. Karmṇnirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājāṁ. Everyone is bound up by the laws of karma. Yas tv indragopam athavendram aho sva-karma-bandhānurūpa-phala-bhājanam ātanoti [Bs. 5.54]. Everyone, beginning from that small microbe, indragopa, and up to the king of heaven-his name is also Indra. So from this Indra to that Indra, all different types of living entities, they are suffering, not enjoying; suffering the resultant action of their past sinful life. This is material existence. Everyone is suffering, but māyā is so kind that he (she) misleads the sufferer to understand the suffering is enjoying. This is māyā. Actually everyone is suffering, but he is misled to think that he is enjoying.

*So if we keep ourself always in contact with Kṛṣṇa, then we become pious more and more, and as soon as our sinful reaction of life is counteracted by these pious activities, we begin to understand Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpam. Without being sinless, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. So this process should be continued. Kīrtanya-tīrtha-yaśasaṁ puṇya-śloka-yaśaskaram dhyāyed devam. Devam. Devam means the Supreme Lord. Samagrangam. So if He has no form, how you can think of His whole body, samagra? Samagra means the whole; aṅgam means body. Samagrāṅgam. So if He has no body, if He is formless, if He is nirakara, then where is the question of aṅgam? He has aṅgam, samagrāṅgam, but He hasn't got a form like us. That is the meaning. When in the śāstra it is said that God has no form, it means that He has no material form. He has form; *otherwise how can I think of His form? This Kṛṣṇa's form is not like us. Just like if you take my statue or any other statue and if you pray or if you offer food, that does not go actually to the person. But Kṛṣṇa's His aṅga, His form, is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. Foolish people may say that "These men, they are offering food to a marble statue. Everyone knows." No. It is not the fact. The fact is Kṛṣṇa is omnipotent. He can accept your service, becoming a marble statue. Because I cannot see Kṛṣṇa by my present eyes, therefore He has appeared before you just like a marble statue. But He is not marble statue. We must know that. If you think, "Here is marble statue, and if I commit some offense, who is going to see?" this is wrong conclusion. He is, Kṛṣṇa, personally present here in a form which we can see. It is His mercy. It is called arcā*-vigraha. Kṛṣṇa is everything. This marble is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. So He can accept your service from any of His energy. The marble is also His energy, the water is also His energy, the air is also His energy-everything. Without Kṛṣṇa nothing can exist. So He is omniscient, all-powerful. He can accept your service through His energy. This is arcā-vigraha. Samagrāṅgam.

*So Kṛṣṇa has got form, aṅgam, but His aṅga is different. Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. His aṅga is sac-cid-ānanda, not like...Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Kṛṣṇa and His expansion-ananda-cinmāyā. Just like Kṛṣṇa is in the rasa dance. These gopīs are also expansion of His energy. And you will find, therefore, with each and every gopī, Kṛṣṇa is there. That is another expansion. So we should not take Kṛṣṇa's dancing like our ball dance. No, that is mistake. If we understand Kṛṣṇa's dancing, then we become liberated. It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that instead of reading some books of this ball dance, if you read about Kṛṣṇa's dancing, then what will be the result? The result will be hṛd-roga-kāmam apahinoty āśv acireṇa dhīraḥ. Everyone, we have got these lusty desires, but if actually one is advanced and he hears from a realized person what is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance, then the result will be hṛd-roga-kāmam. We have got a heart disease. Heart disease means lusty desire. Hṛd-roga-kāmam apahinoti: "It becomes vanquished." If one actually hears Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā, then no more material lusty desires, this is the result.

*But unless we are so advanced spiritually, we should not indulge in hearing about rasa*-līlā. Then we shall commit offense. We shall think that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing like us." How He, Kṛṣṇa is dancing? Kṛṣṇa is dancing with each and every gopī. Can you do that? Then how you can say that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing like us"? If you see the picture, you will find that each and every... Every gopī is thinking that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing with me." How it is possible? If you dance with imitation... There are many rascals. They imitate that, that "I am Kṛṣṇa, and I can dance also like that." No. It is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. This manifestation, demonstration, is not of this material world. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa. When Kṛṣṇa was dancing, all the gopīs, they left their material body by the side of the husband, but they went to dance. That is spiritual body. That is not material body. So don't indulge in such a way, that "Kṛṣṇa's dancing and our dancing is the same." Then you will be mistaken. That will be offense.

*So we have to become advanced in spiritual understanding. And people, the so*-called artists, they indulge in Kṛṣṇa's pictures, His dealings with the gopīs. That is not very good. That is misleading. People may think, and actually that happens. If without being mature, without being advanced in spiritual consciousness, if one tries to understand or see Kṛṣṇa-līlā with the gopīs, then he will be misled. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you will find, rigidly He discussed this Kṛṣṇa-līlā with very confidential devotee, Rāmānanda Rāya, not with others. He never discussed with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya or Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He discussed on philosophy of Māyāvāda, but not on Kṛṣṇa-līlā. Kṛṣṇa-līlā He discussed with Rāmānanda Rāya, most confidential devotee. And to understand Kṛṣṇa, Vyāsadeva has devoted nine chapter, nine cantos. And then, from Tenth Canto, he begins Kṛṣṇa-līlā.

*So Kṛṣṇa*-līlā is the face of Kṛṣṇa, smiling of Kṛṣṇa. So here we have to practice to see the different parts of the body gradually from down. We first of all see His lotus feet, then gradually... So that is described. The two feet, they are called the first chapter, in the First Canto, Second Canto. In this way we must go. Everything is very scientifically arranged. If we take it in chronologically, according to the instruction of the śāstra, then it will be very easy. Otherwise,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti mam (tattvataḥ)

[Bg. 7.3]



We should understand tattvataḥ. That tattvataḥ means... Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Again tattvataḥ. Only through devotional service.



*So devotion What is devotional service? Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda*-seva... [SB 7.5.23]. We have to follow these nine principles of devotional service, especially this śravanam, kīrtanam and arcanam, arcanam, worshiping the Deity, and śravanaṁ kīrtanam. Even if you follow one, that is sufficient, but there are nine different processes. As far as possible, we shall execute everything, and, at least, śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam, arcanam. Arcana is very important. For kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, devotee in the lower stage, arcana is very, very important. Although the devotee in the higher stage, he also offers worship, but Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. For a neophyte devotee Just like some people say that "Why you should go to the temple? Kṛṣṇa is everywhere." Who was asking that question? "Kṛṣṇa cannot be served..." Here, last night. I think those girls, svarṇa(?) girls. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, that is a fact, but that is for the paramhaṁsa, one who is very very advanced. For the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he cannot He, like parrot, he can say, "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere." He must be educated, "Here is Kṛṣṇa in the temple." Otherwise it is simply blaspheme, that "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere." That's a fact, but where is your realization? Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Have you got that realization? Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Have you got that realization, that Kṛṣṇa is within your heart? Can you talk with Kṛṣṇa? He says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I talk." Buddhi yogaṁ-dadāmi tam. Kṛṣṇa gives intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving, but have you got that realization?

*So these are all facts, that Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, Kṛṣṇa is within your heart, Kṛṣṇa is within the atom. Aṇḍāntara stha*-paramāṇu-cayāntara-tham. That's a fact, but where is your realization? Therefore you have to begin realization by arcana. That is very essential. Then more you become expert in arcana, ye yathā mām prapadyante [Bg. 4.11], the more you become realized, then more you become advanced. So therefore, for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he has to raise himself.

arcāyām eva haraye

yaḥ pūjāṁ śraddhayehate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ



*By executing this arca*-vigraha, arcanam, gradually you advance. But if you simply remain in the arcana-viddhi or arcana process, and you cannot understand who is a bhakta and what to do with others... That is also a bhakta's duty, not that simply we shall remain engaged in arcana. We must know how to respect devotee, how to do some service to others also. That is madhyama-adhikārī. Simply if you become satisfied, that "Now I am initiated and I am offering arcana. I have become perfect," no, the perfection is still awaiting. You have to understand who is a devotee. You have to understand how to give service to the innocent. If you do not know that, then if you simply become packed up by arca-vigraha-seva, arcana, then you will remain in the material platform. Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Prakṛtaḥ means material. He is trying to go to the spiritual platform, but if he simply remains in the arcana and does not preach, this is na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu. Anyeṣu. Anyeṣu means those who are innocent. That is madhyama-adhikārī, middle stage.



*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpopekṣa

yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ



*Īśvara. Then, by arca*-vigraha worship, by śravana-kīrtana, by making your properly advanced you will understand what is the position of Kṛṣṇa, īśvara. And īśvare tad-adhīneṣu. And adhīna. Adhīna means those who are working for Kṛṣṇa. They are called tad-adhīna. Adhīna means subordinate.



*So every devotee is subordinate. Nobody is equal to Kṛṣṇa. If we do that, then it is mistake. Devotee... A devotee never says. Dāsa. Dāsa means servant. Servant is always the subordinate. Therefore Vaiṣṇava says "dāsa." He never says "master." Vaiṣṇava, dāsa, subordinate, tad-adhīna, under the..., under Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can be superior to Kṛṣṇa or equal to Kṛṣṇa. That is mistake. These Māyāvādī philosophers, they think, "Now I have become equal to Kṛṣṇa. I am also Kṛṣṇa." That is rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa, God, is never equal to anyone. Asamaurdhva. Asama means "not equal," and urdha, "always the top." Asamaurdhva. That is described in the Bhagavad... So we should remain tad-adhīna, always under Kṛṣṇa. That is our perfection. If we remain just like in Western countries*-they rebel. If a woman is advised to remain under the control of the husband, that is insult to them. They cannot tolerate it. But actually we see in India that a wife who remains under the guidance of the husband, she is happy. That's a practical fact. That is a practical fact. And therefore in the Manu-saṁhitā it is advised, na striyam svatantram arhati. Women should be always protected. That is... Protection does not mean negligence, no. Protection means to give him (her) all facilities. That is protection. Just like father gives protection to the chil... That does not mean neglecting. Similarly, a woman should be protected. It is not that neglecting. They misunderstand. In the Western countries maybe there is misbehavior, but actually we have seen, still going on in India, the woman is... That is the ideal given by Lord Rāmacandra, how woman is given protection by the husband. Sītādevī was kidnapped. Rāmacandra is the Supreme Lord. He could have married many thousands of Sītā, but as the dutiful husband, to rescue one wife He killed the whole family of Rāvaṇa. This is protection. He killed the whole family of him. He became... This is. So woman requires protection, and the husband is responsible to give protection, the father is responsible to give protection, and the elderly children, they are responsible to give protection.

*So we are prakṛti. Prakṛti puruṣa. So Kṛṣṇa is the puruṣa. He is the protector of all living entities. Yesterday, bhṛtyānugraha*-kātaram. Just like a father is always anxious to see his children are well protected, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also always anxious to give protection to His subordinates. But if the subordinate denounce Kṛṣṇa, "I don't want Your protection," then suffer your karma. That you are doing. Those who are in the material world, they are suffering. Why? They have given up the protection of Kṛṣṇa. They are thinking that "We can protect ourself. What is the use of Kṛṣṇa?" So this is called dharmasya glāniḥ. This is deviation from the natural way of life, when you give up the protection. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is: again go back to that protection, go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...paripraśnena. To understand the subject matter submissively, to question, is one of the paraphernalia.



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



Devotee (1): You said that if we made a marble image of you and offered food to it, you would not accept it. So...



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Brahmānanda: In your lecture you said that someone who offers food to a statue of yourself...



Prabhupāda: He is not statue, but people think statue. He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. But because we cannot see Kṛṣṇa at the present moment, therefore He appears like a statue.



Brahmānanda: His question... You stated that a statue of yourself is not the same as you, and yet in some of our temples, such as Vṛndāvana, the mūrti of Your Divine Grace has been installed and they are offering prasādam. So is it the same, that the prasādam is accepted by the guru?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Guru is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. That is accepted by all the śāstra. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta śāstraiḥ. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ: ** "It is said," tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, "and those who are advanced devotees, they accept it like that." Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "But the guru's position is the most confidential servant." So guru is the servant God, and Kṛṣṇa is the master God. Both of them are God, servant God and master God. Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. So we have to serve both the servant and the master. Through the servant, we go to the master. Any other question? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





751029SB.NAI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.28.19

-

Nairobi, October 29, 1975



Harikeśa: "Thus always merged in devotional service, the yogi visualizes the Lord standing, moving, lying down or sitting within him, for the pastimes of the Supreme Lord are always beautiful and attractive."



Prabhupāda:



sthitaṁ vrajantam āsīnaṁ

śayānaṁ vā guhāśayam

prekṣaṇīyehitaṁ dhyāyec

*chuddha*-bhāvena cetasā

[SB 3.28.19]



*This is meditation. These haṭha*-yogis, they meditate in their impersonal feature, but our meditation, Vaiṣṇava, devotees' meditation is very easy. For the haṭha-yogis, they have to select place, āsana. Dhyāna, dhāraṅā, āsana... Āsana is also one of the activities. But here, in Vaiṣṇava philosophy, you are seeing the Deity always, at least daily, so you have got some impression that "Our temple Deity is like this." That impression, either you are sitting in one place without any activities, sthitaṁ vrajantam... While walking on the street also, you can think of this Deity. There is no difficulty, either you are sitting or you are walking or you are standing, any way. Because the mind is there in Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa's form. Therefore Deity worship is so essential for the neophyte. He can have always the opportunity to think of the Supreme Lord by the impression of the Deity within the mind. Śayānam. Even in lying down, even talking.



*So this is our process. This is the perfect process. You don't require any artificial method to think of God. It is natural. If you simply come to the temple daily, chant in the front of the Deity, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, then you become advanced immediately. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. Now there are books. Either you chant, sit down in the Deity room in front of the Deity, see how āratrika is going on, how Deity is nicely dressed with flower, ornaments, so if you constantly be engaged in thinking of the Deity, that is first-class meditation, not artificially going to That is not possible at the present moment, that, as it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, you have to select a very solitary place and you have to sit down under certain posture, looking half-opened eyes on the tip of the nose so that you may not sleep in the name of meditation. There are so many. And you have to follow brahmacārya. All these rules and regulations are there: dhyāna, dhāraṅā, āsana, prāṇāyāma. Prāṇāyāma. Then? What is called? Pratyāhāra. Pratyāhāra means you have to completely withdraw the senses from sense gratification. That is called pratyāhāra. Then there is samādhi. So this yoga system is recommended, but that it is very, very difficult. Five thousand years ago, when Kṛṣṇa explained this haṭha-yoga system in the Sixth Chapter to Arjuna Arjuna was honest man. He flatly denied, "Kṛṣṇa, these things cannot be done by me." Because in those days, especially a person like Arjuna, why he should speak lies? This meditation is not possible. It was only possible in the Satya-yuga when people were very peaceful, long duration of life, there was no artificial necessities of life. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. At that time, to meditate upon Viṣṇu and for years Just like Vālmīki Muni. He practiced meditation for sixty thousands of years. Then he got perfection. At that time people used to live for 100,000.

So this meditation is very difficult to execute at the present moment. That is the verdict of the Vedic literature.

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyaṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*The meditation which was possible in the kṛte, in the Satya*-yuga... Satya-yuga continued for twelve lakhs of years; *then Treta*-yuga, eight lakhs of years... No, Satya-yuga, eighteen lakhs; *then Treta*-yuga, twelve lakhs; *then Dvāpara*-yuga, eight lakhs; *and Kali*-yuga, four lakhs. Altogether forty-three. So bhakti-yoga includes everything. So this process, this arcanā process. If we... Everyone alternately they should learn how to worship. That will give the impression of the Lord within the heart, and then, either you are walking or you are sitting or you are lying or you are eating or you are talking, you'll always think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. It will be automatically done. Sthitaṁ vrajantam āsīnaṁ śayānaṁ vā guhāśayam. Generally the yogis, they try to find out the Viṣṇu mūrti within the core of the heart, but this is as good. When you are walking on the street, then, if you are thinking, there will be no hindrance to your activities, but you can think of Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Just like Mahārāja Ambarish. He was emperor. He had many responsibilities, but he practiced how to think of Kṛṣṇa always.



*Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. You engage your senses. So this is practice. First of all think of the Deity. First of all think of the lotus feet, then the knees, then the eyes, then the belly, then the chest. In this way, as you become practiced, then go further, advance. In this way, when you become fully practiced, then automatically, in whatever condition you are, you will be able to meditate upon Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection of life. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām [Bg. 9.14]. Satataṁ cintayanto mām. If you always think of Kṛṣṇa, always chant... Chanting is also meditation. As soon as you chant, you immediately remember Kṛṣṇa, His form, His name, His quality, His pastimes. So where is difficulty? The Gosvāmīs practiced it.

*kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



The six Gosvāmīs, they were always engaged, kṛṣṇotkīrtana, loudly chanting. The same process we are following: loudly chant always; be engaged in arcanā. Always there is possibility of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The facilities are there. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Then prekṣanīya, "He is worth seeing." We are accustomed to see so many things. That is our bondage. Akṣnoḥ phalaṁ. If by the eyes you see the Deity, the Vaiṣṇavas... The Vaiṣṇavas, with tilaka, with kunti, with chanting beads, as soon as you see... And practically you know. As soon as they see these Hare Kṛṣṇa movement people, they also chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," giving a chance to the others. The dress is also required. You should be always equipped with tilaka, kunti, and śikhā, sūtra. Then, as soon as a common man sees, "Oh, here is a Hare Kṛṣṇa man. Hare Kṛṣṇa," he'll chant. Automatically you give a chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*So this is required. The foolish rascals, they say that "What is the necessity of this, that?" No. This is necessity. You must always remain dressed like a Vaiṣṇava. That is necessity. So prekṣaṇīya: "is very beautiful to see." Otherwise how they became impressed? Immediately they become so pious that they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. The chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is not so easy. So many people come here, but when there is chanting, they do not chant because it is not easy. Yaj*-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam. In the śāstra it is said, aho bata śva-pacato 'pi garīyān yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam. Anyone who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, jihvāgre, with the tongue, even if he is born in a family of dog-eaters he is glorious. He is glorious. Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam. So we give this chance. As soon as he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes glorious. Immediately become glorious. Aho bata śva-pacato 'pi garīyān yaj-jihvāgre nā..., tepus tapas te [SB 3.33.7]. That means in his previous life he has already performed many sacrifices. Therefore he has got this qualification of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tepus tapas te jihuvuḥ sasnur āryā [SB 3.33.7]. They are really Āryā, Āryan, who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

So we should practice ourself to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ, Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*Hari*-nāma, this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one should practice always. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So prekṣaṇīya ihitaṁ dhyāyet. This is meditation. Dhyāyet chuddha-bhāvena, śuddha-bhāvena. Not artificial. But even if you do artificially, you will be purified by chanting. Artificially, if we do... That is in the śāstra. Still, the chanting of the holy name is so powerful that it will make you... Because it is directly associating with God. Dhyāyet. So as soon as chant, immediately there will be meditation, śuddha-bhāvena cetasā, by consciousness, by the mind, by intelligence. So this is the recommendation.



*(reads purport) "The process of meditating on the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead within oneself and the process of chanting the glories or pastimes of the Lord are the same." There is no difference. This is called advaya-jñāna: no difference, absolute. Either you chant, hear, or you try to see within your heart the Supreme Lord*-the same thing. "The only difference is that hearing and fixing the mind on the pastimes of the Lord is easier than visualizing the form of the Lord within one's heart, because as soon as one begins to think of the Lord, especially in this age, the mind becomes disturbed, and due to so much agitation, the process of seeing the Lord within the mind is interrupted." Suppose one is big businessman. He is always thinking of his business, how to sell this, how to purchase this. This is... His mind is absorbed with these things. So if he sits down to meditate upon the Lord, it will not be possible. It will not be possible. His mind will be disturbed, and he will think of his business transaction. So that is natural. But if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa loudly, you will be forced to hear "Kṛṣṇa," and that Kṛṣṇa immediately comes within your mind by force. So it is better process than sit down and think of Kṛṣṇa.

*"When there is sound vibrated passing the transcendental pastimes of the Lord, however, one is forced to hear. That hearing process enters into the mind, and the practice of yoga is automatically performed. For example, even a child can hear and derive the benefit of meditating on the pastimes of the Lord simply..." Now, just like these children. They do not understand English, they do not understand language, but when there will be chanting, they will stand up and dance. See how this process is easy. There is no question of language understanding, no question of being young or child. Anyone who will hear the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa Mantra, he will be enthused immediately, and that is natural. Unless he is covered with sinful activities very much, he will be enthused. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. But even if he is covered with sinful activities, by chanting, immediately the process of cleansing begins. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Simply by hearing and chanting, he becomes pious. And the more he becomes pious, he understands what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Without being pious, nobody can understand. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmanām, te dvandva-moha-nir...

*So the puṇya*-karma means yajña-dāna-tapasya... That is called puṇya-karma, pious activities. So in this age who is going to perform yajña? Where is that capacity? It is not possible. And who has got money to give in charity? Everyone is poverty-stricken. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. Everyone is unfortunate, everyone in this age. So how he can give in charity? Any country you go-maybe in some special-otherwise you will find poverty-stricken men, hungry men, without any culture, without any education. They are majority. Manda-bhāgyāḥ. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. And mostly, cent percent Why? Cent percent men, they are mandāḥ, bad men. They won't hear about their real necessities of life. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. And if they are at all interested for progress of life, they will accept some so-called system, sumanda-matayo. It has no meaning, simply bluff. They will accept that. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. Why? Manda-bhāgyāḥ, unfortunate. Unfortunate. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. And always disturbed. This is the description of the men in this Kali-yuga. And beyond that, they are short-living. The duration of life is very short. Under the circumstances, the general process is impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



So this should be taken.



*So, "Hearing includes applying the mind. In this age of Kali*-yuga, Lord Caitanya has recommended that one should always engage in chanting and hearing Bhagavad-gītā." Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128].' Kṛṣṇa also said... Somebody questioned me, that "Where is chanting is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā?" That is there: satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. And they say, "Where is chanting in the word?" Here is chanting. Mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām [Bg. 9.14]. Mām-Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana, not this kīrtana, that kīrtana. They have imitated. No. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam means of the, by the name of Viṣṇu. The Māyāvādīs, they have invented. In Calcutta, in Bengal, they have invented Kali-kīrtana, Kali-kīrtana. The Ramakrishna Mission, they have invented Kali-kīrtana. "Why Hari-kīrtana? Kali-kīrtana." They have got a party. As we say... Because they are rival, if we say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," they will say "Kali, Kali, Kali," like that. This is going on. Kīrtana does not mean any other demigod. Kīrtana means of Viṣṇu. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, clearly state. But these bogus, so-called swamis and yogis, they cheat people, bluff people by their own concoction. That is the difficulty. Even if you speak the right truth, they are unable to receive it because they have been deceived by so many rascals. So kīrtana means... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., satataṁ kīrtayanto mām [Bg. 9.14], Kṛṣṇa. He doesn't say that "Any kīrtana will do." No. He doesn't say. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14].

*So everything is there. Stick to Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra and see the Deity always and have impression of the Deity. In whichever position you are, you'll be meditating and your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



751030SB.NAI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.28.20

-

Nairobi, October 30, 1975



Harikeśa: "In fixing his mind on the eternal form of the Lord, the yogi should not take a collective view of all His limbs, but should fix the mind on each individual limb of the Lord."



Prabhupāda:



*tasmiḹ labdha*-padaṁ cittaṁ

*sarvāvayava*-saṁsthitam

vilakṣyaikatra saṁyujyād

aṇge bhagavato muniḥ

[SB 3.28.20]



*So as we have explained many times, that this arca*-mūrti... The rascal class of men, they cannot understand arca-mūrti. They think that "They are worshiping idol." Even amongst the Hindus there are so-called followers of Vedas. They also say that "What is the necessity of worshiping Deity in the temple?" They made very vigorous propaganda in India to stop temple worship. For a short time it has got some reaction, but now it is finished. That rascal propaganda not to worship the Deity in the temple is finished. Nobody cares for that. They think that God is everywhere-except in the temple. (laughter) That is their view. And God is everywhere; why not in the temple? No. That is their poor fund of knowledge. They cannot accommodate. No. God is everywhere but not in the temple. This is their intelligence, rascals. So we have to follow therefore ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: one who has accepted ācārya... One who knows the śāstra and practically behaves according to the regulation of śāstra, he is called ācārya. Acinoti śāstrārthaḥ.



*So all the ācāryas... In India there are many thousands and thousands of temples, very, very big temples, especially in South India. Some of them you have seen. Each temple is like a big fort. So all these temples were established by the ācāryas, not that the people whimsically established. No. Still there is very prominent temple, Balaji temple, Tirupati, Tirumalai. People are going, and the daily collection is more than one lakh of rupees still. Although they have been propagated so vigorously not to visit temples, but people... That is the birthright in India*-they are automatically Kṛṣṇa conscious, automatically. Therefore all the demigods, they also desire to take birth in India. Automatically.

So the temple worship is essential. So those who are against temple worship, Deity worship, they are not very intelligent class of men, foolish, mūḍha. Again, the same word.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*Māyayāpahṛta jñānāḥ. They are talking very big, big words, that "God is everywhere," but they are forbidding temple worship. Apahṛta*-jñānā. The knowledge is imperfect. A common man can say, "If God is everywhere, why not in the temple?" And if we have to worship God, why not in His original form? The original form, Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, the original form so many people have seen. They have got photograph..., not photograph, paintings. And it is confirmed in the śāstras, in the Brahma-saṁhitā, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam [Bs. 5.30]. Kṛṣṇa is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā from so millions and millions of years ago described by Lord Brahma, that veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ. He is always playing His flute, veṇuṁ. Venu means flute. Kvaṇantam. And eyes are like the petals of lotus flower. Venum kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam [Bs. 5.30]. And on the head He has got the plume of peacock feather. In this way the description is there in the śāstra. And when Kṛṣṇa came... (aside:) Let him... Why do you disturb? Let him do that. Sit down. So śāstra says Kṛṣṇa is like this. And when Kṛṣṇa appeared on this planet the exactly the same description was there in His form.



*So we have to accept the form of the Lord as confirmed in the śāstra and as confirmed by the ācārya. Then it is perfect. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya tinete kariyā aikya. We have to understand something very rigidly by three things, the... It must be confirmed by the śāstra, and it must be confirmed by the ācāryas and by the spiritual master. Very simple thing. We have description of Kṛṣṇa in the śāstra, Brahma*-saṁhitā, the treatise given by Lord Brahma. And this Brahma-saṁhitā was collected from South India in handwriting by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and He delivered to His devotees. So the sādhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. Still, He is playing the part of a sādhu. Sādhu and śāstra, Brahma-saṁhitā, and because we have received from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we are delivering to our disciples: "Here is Kṛṣṇa's form." The sādhu, śāstra, guru. It must be confirmed. Then we can accept, not that whimsically if some rascal comes and becomes God by concoction. We cannot accept. It must be confirmed by... (aside:) Why do you bother? Let them. No, no. As he likes. That's all.

*So sādhu śāstra guru. This is the way. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was instructing Sanātana Gosvāmī in various subject matter, and He also described the incarnation in Kali*-yuga from śāstra that,

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇam tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*He quoted from Bhāgavatam, "This is the incarnation of Kali*-yuga." So He is Himself yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ-prāyaiḥ. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was prime minister, very intelligent man. So he had inquired from Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "How we can accept the avatāra?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, "From the śāstra." And Sanātana Gosvāmī got it confirmed that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was... He stopped, of course. When he inquired that "Shall I accept this personality who is now preaching saṅkīrtana movement and along with His associates, He is the Supreme Lord?" Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Let us go on further. We don't..."



*So this is the way, not whimsically accept any rascal as avatāra. No. That is not the process. Or any rascal as God. This rascaldom has killed the whole human society to become atheist. You should be very, very careful of these rascals. As soon as somebody says that "I am God," you shall immediately take him as dog, not God. So God is not so cheap. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā the description of God, Kṛṣṇa, is given, and it is said there,

*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-bilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*Govinda, the ādi*-puruṣa, His plenary representation is Mahā-Viṣṇu. And what is the description of Mahā-Viṣṇu? Yasya eka niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya. From one exhaling of the breath, then... Yasyaika niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48], all these innumerable universes. We are seeing... We are in one universe. There are many millions of universes. That we cannot see. We are within this universe compact. We can see it is packed up, just like a ball. But there are many such. So all these different universes controlled by one Lord Brahma, they are coming during the exhaling period of Mahā-Viṣṇu's breathing. That is God. Who can imagine Him? Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. And universes are coming from the, what is called? Hole?



Devotee: Pores.



*Prabhupāda: Pores. Pores of the body. From breathing in this way. Then just imagine how many pores are there in the Mahā*-Viṣṇu's body and how many universes are coming. And this is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā:



athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*"This material manifestation is one fourth-part of My energy, so many innumerable universes." And this is the plenary portion of God, Govinda*-not full, but plenary, one part only. And do you think God is so cheap, anyone can become God? You don't take so cheaply that "Here is a God, incarnation. Here is a God." All bogus. Immediately reject them. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya.



*So this arca-vigraha which you are worshiping, it is recommended by sādhu, by ācārya, by śāstra. It is not poetic imagination. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa's form has been carved by the sculptor by some poetic imagination. No. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya. It is confirmed by the sādhu, by śāstra, by ācārya. So why? To give us facility. Give us facility. We cannot see God by this blunt, materialistic eyes. Materialistic eyes means everything we think in the, with reference to our sense gratification. That is materialistic eyes. "Everything belongs to God"*-that we cannot believe or neither we have got the power to understand it. Kṛṣṇa says, God says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "Everything belongs to Me." Still, we are fighting: "No, this Africa is mine," "This America is mine," or "This India is mine." They are simply fighting, simply fighting on this misconception. It is clearly said, and is a fact. How this land becomes yours? It does not belong to you. You have come for the time being, for, say, fifty years, hundred years. But the land is lying for millions and millions of years. So before your coming the land was there, and after your going away the land will be there. How it becomes yours? But they have no common sense, these rascals. They have no common sense. They are fighting-"nationalism." Therefore they are described as go-khara, go-khara, animals, cows and asses. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Bhauma-idya-dhīḥ, this is nationalism, worshiping the land of birth. This is called nationalism.

*So everyone is becoming very great personality by bhauma*-ijya-dhīḥ. The land in which he has taken birth is worshipable, not this Deity. Deity is impersonal, but the land is personal. This is their intelligence. Therefore in śāstra it is said, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. The mistake begins from this misunderstanding that "I am this body." Therefore all other mistakes What are those? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke..., svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu: family. "My wife. This is my wife. This is my children. This is my father. This is my mother. We are in a family." Svā-dhīḥ: "They are my kith and kin. Others, they are all my enemies." So this crippled thought Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu [SB 10.84.13]. Because they have no knowledge that "Nobody is my father. Nobody is my mother. I am nobody's son. We are simply assembled together under certain condition, just like some straws gathered together by the waves of the river, and again, by the same river, it is tossed here and there and then the straw remains one." So we can study our history of life, that someone was born in India; someone was born in America; *someone was born in Africa, Canada. So we have come together. There was no idea that we shall have to give up our family relationship and come into this society of Kṛṣṇa conscious. So similarly, we mix together, intermingle, by chance. Not by chance-by the arrangement of the Supreme, by providence. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. So we play the part of the son, the father, the wife, the children, but it is exactly the same*-a straw gathering by the waves of the river. So just like sometimes in a foreign country we make some relationship, brother, father, but that is not actually the fact. The real father is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayoyaḥ [Bg. 14.4].

*So this is understanding. So we have to return to that understanding. Therefore it is advised how to make our relationship stronger with Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended here. Tasmiḹ labdha*-padaṁ cittaṁ sarvāvayava-saṁsthitam. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa or God has no head, no tail. No. Sarvāvayava saṁsthitam. Virāṭa-mūrti. They are repeatedly said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But His avayava, different parts of the body, they are different from our, this material, at the present moment the material conception. That is different. He... Just like we can pick up our foodstuff by this hand. This hand is not just like Kṛṣṇa's hand. Kṛṣṇa's hand appears to be nonmoving. I think my hand is moving, but Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that even He has got the so-called statue hand, a metal hand or a stone hand, He can capture food which you offer. That you have to understand. When Kṛṣṇa is described as "He has no hand," that means He has no that limited hand as we have got. He has got... He appears before us just like a stone idol or statue, but He has got all the capacity of the limbs of the body, sarvāvayava. He has kindly appeared before us so that we can see. Here it is recommended that saṁyujyād aṅge. You have to see each and every part of the body, limb of Kṛṣṇa. That is meditation.

*This arca*-vigraha... By offering worship to the Deity, you see the lotus feet is there, the ankle is there, the mark in the sole is there. Everything is there. So each and every part you study and understand, "Kṛṣṇa is here. Kṛṣṇa is there." This is meditation. It is not that the rascal's theory that God is everywhere except in the temple. No. It is not like that. He is everywhere. Now He has appeared in this temple specifically to show His mercy how we can study very analytically: "Here is feet. Here is hand. The feet is marked with these symptoms. His hand is like this. His flute is like this. His hair is like this. Eyes are..." Study everything minutely. Then that is meditation, and this will help you to think of Kṛṣṇa constantly, and that will be trance, samādhi, samādhi, practical. It is not to be imaginary. The Māyāvādīs, they think that it is imagination. No, it is not imagination. It is confirmed by the śāstras, sādhu śāstra guru vākya.

*So don't be misled by the Māyāvādīs. As we have got our ācāryas, they are instructing, as Bhāgavata is instructing, Bhagavad*-gītā is instructing, we have to follow. And if we cannot follow, then we should see the ācāryas, how they are doing. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. In this way we have to make our life perfect.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...on this subject matter, not bring the whole list of questions.



Girl devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that the demigods, they want to take birth in India, but is there not the same Vedic culture in the heavenly planets? Why do they want to...



*Prabhupāda: They are missing the opportunity. That is their misfortune. They do not take advantage of the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā, Bhāgavatam. They are taking to technology. What can be done?



Brahmānanda: Her question was of the demigods, that you said that they wanted to take their birth in India, but is not the Vedic culture in the heavenly planets?



*Prabhupāda: No, heavenly, they... By pious activities they go to the heavenly planets, but they find there inconvenience in God consciousness. Therefore they desire that "By our pious activities we have come to this higher planetary system, and as soon as our reaction, or the resultant action of pious activities will be finished, we shall have to go again to the material, or this Bhūrloka. So if remaining little balance of our pious activities, instead of going anywhere, let us take birth in India." They desire like that. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, janmāobi more iccha yadi tora kīṭa*-janma ha-u..., dāsa tuara, like that. He is praying, "My Lord, I do not know whether I am sufficiently fit to go back to home, to back to Godhead, but my only prayer is that if You think that I have to take birth again, so kindly give me this opportunity that I may take birth in a place..." Kīṭa janma hau yathā dāsa tuyā: "Let me become an insignificant ant in the house of a devotee. If I am going to take birth at all, so give me this concession, that let me take birth as an ant even in the house of a devotee." So Bhāratvarṣa, the devatās, the demigods, they desire to take birth in India because here is the opportunity. Still, so much broken, you will find, you have seen, that when we hold this Hare Kṛṣṇa festival, twenty thousand, fifty thousand men come automatically. You will find never in any other country. Still in India you will find that. Why? Because they have taken birth in India the facility is there. So it is very unfortunate that Indians are trying to forget Kṛṣṇa. Very unfortunate. Kṛpaṇa. If you have got money, if you don't utilize is properly, that is your misfortune. Similarly, in India, those who have taken birth, they have got the opportunity. Bhagavad-gītā was spoken in India, but they are reluctant. They're reluctant. This is their misfortune.



*Jñāna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it sometimes more appropriate to worship arca*-mūrti of Śrī Śrī Gaura-Nitāi than Śrī Śrī Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: That will be recommended to you by your spiritual master according to your position. There is no stereotyped idea. That you have to take, instruction from your spiritual master, or you have to do according to the instruction of spiritual master. That will be nice.



*Girl devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we chant japa in front of arca*-mūrti, do we then therefore, by this verse, meditate on Kṛṣṇa limb by limb?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Brahmānanda: When we chant japa in front of the Deity, does that correspond to this verse of meditating on the Lord limb by limb?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You can see. The Lord is everywhere. You can... Anyone can think. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





751101SB.NAI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 3.28.21

-

Nairobi, November 1, 1975



Harikeśa: "The devotee should first concentrate his mind on the Lord's lotus feet, which are adorned with the marks of a thunderbolt, a goad, a banner and a lotus. The splendor of their beautiful ruby nails resembles the orb of the moon and dispels the thick gloom of one's heart." [SB 3.28.21]



Prabhupāda: Sañcintayed bhagavataś caraṇāravindam. This is the beginning of meditation, sañcintayet. It is not nirviśeṣa, nirakara meditation. What is that meditation? Here it is, direction, sañcintayet. Sañcintayet means meditation. What about, meditation? Sañcintayed bhagavataś caraṇāravindam. First of all meditate on the lotus feet, caraṇāravindam, lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. And if you minutely see, then you will find the symptoms are there. Our feet and Kṛṣṇa's feet, there is difference. Why difference? Because on the sole these marks are there. What is that? Vajra aṅkuśa, dhvaja, saroruha. Four things are there: thunderbolt, mark of thunderbolt; and kuśa, the mark of... What is that instrument which controls the elephant?



Harikeśa: Driving rod?



Prabhupāda: No. It is called aṅkuśa in Sanskrit. It is like this.



Harikeśa: Hook.



Prabhupāda: Maybe, whatever. So aṅkuśa; vajra, thunderbolt; then aṅkuśa; then dhvaja, flag; *and saroruha, lotus*-these four things are there. You have seen. Sometimes Viṣṇu lotus feet is painted and these signs are there. So sañcintayet. What about, sañcintayet? These things, minutely, that "Here is the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and on the sole, upon the sole, these marks are painted." Lāñchanāḍhyam, deriving. It is very brilliant, beautiful. Kṛṣṇa's everything is beautiful. Uttuṅga-rakta-vilasan-nakha-cakravāla. This is the special significance of Kṛṣṇa's hand, that these nails are raised and reddish, uttuṅga-rakta-vilasan-nakha-cakravāla. It is just like cakravāla bird. Jyotsnābhiḥ. And from the effulgence of the nails, jyotsnābhiḥ, āhata, if you see the brilliance and effulgence of the nails of Kṛṣṇa, nails in the finger of Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be that āhata-mahad-dhṛdayāndhakāram.



*This material world, we are living in darkness, hṛdayāndhakāram. Our heart is dark. We do not know what is what. So if you simply concentrate on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa as it is described*-there are marks-then, in contact with such vision, your hṛdayāndhakāram, the dirty things, andhakāram... Andhakāram means darkness or dirty things. That will be āhata, off, attacked: "Get out!" Āhata. Jyotsnābhir āhata-mahad-dhṛdayāndhakāram. Mahat means very great. This is our material condition, that we are covered, absorbed in so many darkness, and still we want to show some intelligence. This is material existence. Therefore we always say "fools and rascals." He is... He does not know anything clearly, and simply he wants to see with imperfect eyes, imperfect instrument, microscope, telescope. What is the value of this? It is simply andhakāra. The whole world is... This is called darkness. We can... We experience every moment. If there was no sun, then what is the value of this world? We have got good experience. In the Western countries where there is no sun, it is hell, simply hell, simply hell without sun. All the condemned countries are devoid of sunlight. This morning we were speaking that London, it is without sunlight practically throughout the whole year. Long ago, in 1969, in the television, the television man asked me that "Where is hell?" and "It is here in London." (laughter) That was published in the paper. There is such a... And always dark and always moist and always so cold. So this is hell. Why you have to search out hell? Here is hell. Simply you bring money from outside, exploiting others, and construct big, big building. It is little attractive. People come here as tourist. Otherwise who comes here to see the hell? So actually that is the...

*So anyone's heart is always clouded with ignorance and rubbish knowledge. If you want to drive away this knowledge... Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. This ignorance... This material world is tama. A Vedic injunction is tamasi mā: "Don't remain in this darkness." If there is light, why we shall remain in the darkness? That is intelligence. If there is light, why should we rot in the darkness? So there is light. Jyotir gamaḥ, brahmajyoti. Jyotir gamaḥ, Brahman. That Brahman world go, not this material world. Yasya prabhā [Bs. 5.40]. What is that Brahman world? The Brahman world means where there is complete effulgence, bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. That is Brahman world. Just like here the bodily rays of the sun makes it clear, so brilliant, what we can see. Then what is the sunshine? It is the bodily rays of the sun. Why don't you believe that? The example is there, you learn. If a material thing like the sun globe or the sun-god, he has got so much bodily effulgence that it is keeping lighted all over the universe, just imagine what is the bodily brilliance of Kṛṣṇa.

*That is described in the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koti [Bs. 5.40]. Kṛṣṇa's body is bluish or blackish; *therefore you see the sky bluish because the rays in the spiritual world is effulgence, bluish effulgence, and that is being reflected through the sky. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koti [Bs. 5.40]. His bodily light is being reflected in millions and trillions of universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koti. Jagad-aṇḍa [Bs. 5.40]. Jagad-aṇḍa means... Aṇḍa, it is round. Aṇḍa means egg shape. We don't say it is flat. Śāstra never says, "Flat." Then you correct, "No, no, it is not flat. It is round." This is śāstra. Long, long years, in the beginning, it was called round, aṇḍa. Goloka, go, Goloka, Bhurloka. Goloka means round. Goloka Vṛndāvana. Everything is round. So jagad-aṇḍa. Aṇḍa, aṇḍa means egg shape. Jagad-aṇḍa-koti. The each and every universe is egg shape; *it is covered. So yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koti koṭiṣu [Bs. 5.40]. And each and every universe, koṭiṣu... In each, not that in one universe. We see so many universes, one universe, but there are many millions of universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koti koṭiṣu aśeṣa-vasudhādi bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. And in each and every universe there are so many planets, aśeṣa, you cannot count-unlimited*-in one universe, and there are millions of universes. What is your material knowledge? What do you know? You are trying to go to the moon planet. That is also you committing mistake. And what about the millions of universes?

*Therefore our knowledge is very, very limited, poor. Poor fund of knowledge, and still we are proud. Sapari phora*-phorayate.(?) Just like a small fish, you have seen in the pond. Little water, say one feet-(makes sound) "phor, phor, phor, phor." But the big fishes, they are in the deep in the water, big fish. So we take knowledge from the big fish, not from the small fish, "phor, phor, phor, phor." So phora-phorayate(?), this kind of knowledge will not satisfy us. We take from the big fish, one who knows. Then who knows? Kṛṣṇa knows. And one who knows from Kṛṣṇa, he knows. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is ācāryavān, who has taken shelter of ācārya, he knows. Why? Because ācārya receives knowledge from Kṛṣṇa and he distributes knowledge to his disciple. That is perfect knowledge. Ācāryavān puruṣaḥ. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. These are the instruction.

*So actually we are in the darkness. This whole world is dark. It is... It requires, therefore, the sunlight, the moonlight, the electric light, the fire, the lamp, because it is dark. Because it is dark. But there is a spiritual world where here is no need of. Na yatra bhāsyate sūryo na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, na yatra bhāsyate sūryaḥ. There is no need of this sūrya. There is no need of sūrya. Sūrya is required, the sun is required, because this world, material world, is dark, very, very dark, dense darkness. And we are born in this darkness. Our heart is full of darkness. Simply by the Kṛṣṇa's grace there is sun, there is moon, there is fire, there is electric... Therefore we can see. Otherwise you remain in the darkness. But if you go to the spiritual world... Tamasi mā: "You don't keep yourself in this darkness; *come to the light." "What is that? There is also the sun, moon?" No. There is no need. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. These are there. Where is Bhagavad*-gītā? Find out. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryaḥ. Who will find out? This is spiritual world. There is no need of sun, moon, electricity, fire. We are inviting, or, rather, trying to go to that world where there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity. And somehow or other, if we can go there, yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6], then you'll haven't got to come back again in this darkness. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

So at least one life try to going back to that place. Then your whole problem will be solved. Here we are paying so much electricity bill, and if there is no sun, we are rotten place. So why do you suffer in this way? Come here. There is no need of sun; there is no need of electricity. And the prime gain is that if you can go there, there is no need of coming back again. So those who have no information of the spiritual world, they stick to this material world as everything is here. But those who have got knowledge, mahātmā, whose ātmā is very great, who can understand the greatness of God and His great knowledge and take knowledge from Him, he is perfect. So here is the knowledge. Everything is there. He is giving... We... Not that back to home, back to Godhead, is our imagination. No, not imagination. Just like if somebody gives you information of America, that "America is very rich city. There are so many big, big bridges and road and motor cars." So naturally you become inclined: "Why not see once America, how it is?" So similarly, here is the information about the spiritual world, and why don't you try to go back to home, back to Godhead?

*What is this foolishness? Why should you pay the electric bill? Go there and live there. There is no need of... Na yatra... Na tad bhāsayate. It is... The spiritual world is not lighted by the sun, moon. Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. Because everyone is effulgent, every planet is effulgent, so therefore there is no need of these things. There is no ignorance. There is no scarcity. There is no miserable condition. That is called Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha means vigata kuṇṭha yasmād iti vaikuṇṭha. Kuṇṭha, anxiety. Here every man, even the richest man is full of anxiety. Your president, he is the richest person in this country, and he is the third richest man in the world, somebody. But do you think he is without anxiety? No. That is not possible. That is not possible. He is full of anxiety: "The other party may not take." (aside:) You sit down properly. Other party may not take his position. This is all politicians' anxiety. Even the king of heaven, Indra, he is also full of anxiety. There are Hiraṇyakaśipus. So sometimes they drive away that Indra, King Indra, and he enjoys there. This is going on, not only in this planet. In all planet, wherever you go, the same condition prevails. Ābrahma*-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. Don't think that by going to the heavenly planet you'll be happy there. No. There is no possibility. Either you go to the heavenly planet or you go to the hell, you will have to undergo the threefold miserable conditions.

*Therefore inviting. Kṛṣṇa is coming, inviting. We are also, on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, inviting. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryaḥ. So you come to that spiritual life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. And what is? How you can go there? Very simple. Very simple. Kṛṣṇa has given you the simple program. What is that? Manmanā bhava mad*-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. If you simply follow these four principles without arguing foolishly and rascally, manmanā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65], these four principles. "Always think of Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Not I am saying, but Kṛṣṇa personally saying, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto: "Just become My devotee," and māṁ namaskuru, "worship Me." So it doesn't require any M.A., Ph.D. degrees. It doesn't require that Apratihatā. Bhakti is apratihatā, without any hindrance. Nobody can say that "Because I am poor," "Because I am uneducated," "Because I am black," "Because I am white"-no "because." Any condition of life, you can become a devotee and go back to home, back to This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. No material condition can check you. This is our movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]



Prabhupāda: Yes, begin by seeing the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is advised here. Tat caraṇāravindam. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravinda. If you worship the Deity, always see the lotus feet, then gradually you will understand.



Devotee (1): Should we not gaze...?



*Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, gradually. No, no. First of all see the lotus feet and meditate. When you are fully practiced to see the lotus feet simply by thinking of Kṛṣṇa, then that business is finished. Then go up, then go up, then go up, then go up. Then see the face. This is the process of meditation. Not... Therefore I said, "Not jumping over the face, rasa*-līlā." What do you know about Kṛṣṇa's līlā, rāsa-līlā? First of all study what is Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā. Any other?



Jñāna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, will you please explain the phrase, I mean, "serving the lotus feet of the spiritual master," "serving the lotus feet."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Give little water and tulasī and flower. That's all. It is very difficult job? Then everyone can do it. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. No. Simply... Just as Advaita Prabhu, He simply offered Gaṅgā*-jala and tulasī to please the Lord to come. Caitanya Mahāprabhu came. This is... There is no difficulty at all. Because we simply use..., misuse our intelligence, misuse our opportunity, there is trouble. Otherwise there is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? Tulasī-patra you can have, and little water, offer to the, on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and pray, "Give me intelligence so that I can serve You nicely." And he gives intelligence. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām [Bg. 10.10]. If you are continually giving tulasī flower and water and praying, "Kṛṣṇa, give me intelligence how can I serve You nice," then Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes." Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānām: "One who is engaged in this way, teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānām... What is that?



*Brahmānanda: Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānām.



*Prabhupāda: Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. When Kṛṣṇa sees that "He is worshiping Me with faith and reverence and love," then buddhi-yogam dadāmi tam. He'll give you intelligence. He is within you. Therefore I was saying, "First of all become fit. First of all deserve. Then desire." Why foolishly you desire something for which you do not deserve? That is your fault. That is misuse. Don't desire something without being deserving. So these are the process given how to think, how to meditate upon Kṛṣṇa. So practice it. Become qualified. Then you'll see everything. Without being qualified, why you want to see? This devotional service means practicing how to become qualified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. You have to become fully cleansed. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. Sarva... What is that? Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. We have to become completely zero about material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Then you become qualified. So long you have got any pinch of material desires, you are disqualified. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Parityajya means giving up completely, cent percent, no reservation. In this way, surrendered, that is the qualification. Everything is there. No reservation. And Kṛṣṇa will give you chance: "All right, if you have got still desire for material enjoyment, do it." "I want to become a king." "All right, become a king." Then "I want to become a dog." "All right, become a dog." He gives you both opportunity. And we are doing that. We're doing that. We are rotating throughout the whole universe in different types of bodies just to fulfill our damned desires, that's all. Therefore your first qualification is no desire. Simply desire to worship Kṛṣṇa. That is qualification. Then everything will be revealed. Buddhi yogaṁ dadāmi tam. Then everything will come from Him. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)





*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Canto 4: Lectures



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 4.14.14

--

November 16, 1971, Delhi

711116SB.DEL



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 4.14.14

-

November 16, 1971, Delhi



Prabhupāda:



śrī munaya ūcuḥ

*nṛpa*-varya nibodhaitad

yat te vijñāpayāma bhoḥ

*āyuḥ-śrī*-bala-kīrtīnāṁ

tava tāta vivardhanam



*(aside:) You can close this door. So irresponsible government. It is not now*-such things happened in long, long days ago also. That is the nature of this material world, that everything deteriorates. Whatever good thing you may prepare, in due course of time, it will deteriorate. That is the nature of material nature, that something is produced which in the beginning it goes on nicely, then gradually it deteriorates. Influence of time, and then vanish. So even in religious movement, if there is materialistic motive, then it will deteriorate. It will not stand. So beginning of religious life should be without any material motive. Pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Brs. 1.1.11], no material motive. Generally, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, people go to the temple and the churches or any religious..., synagogue, with a material motive. Ārto arthārthī. Generally they are in need of money or they are unhappy somehow or other, and they go to God, Kṛṣṇa, or according to their religious principle, and pray for material benefit. But that is also accepted as good, because they are approaching Kṛṣṇa, or God. But that is not pure devotion. If such material motive continues, then he will fall down from that devotional service. Because as soon as his distress is mitigated, he will think that there is no more need of worshiping. Naturally he forgets. Just like rich man. A rich man becomes rich not very easily, with great austerity either in this life or in the past. But when he gets money, he becomes extravagant and again falls down. Similarly, we may go to Kṛṣṇa in times of distress, but as soon as the distress is gone, we forget Kṛṣṇa.

There is a very nice verse in Hindi that duhk se sab hari bhaje, sukh se bhaje (?), sukh se agar hari bhaje, dukh ahan se hoi (?). Generally people take to devotional service when they are in materially distressed condition. The rich men, they do not care for it. But if a rich man takes care that "I have got this money by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. I must use it for Kṛṣṇa," then he will never be unhappy. He will never be unhappy. Because after all, whatever we get, it is by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So by His favor we get opulence, riches, but when we are opulent we forget Kṛṣṇa, because māyā is very strong. Māyā will detect, "Oh, you have got so much money, why don't you enjoy wine and woman?" As it is going on in European and American countries, anyone who gets money, he utilizes it for wine and woman. He has no other engagement. He does not know how to utilize money. Therefore, now the British Empire, we have seen it practically, how opulent British Empire was and now how they are coming down. Recently we have seen in London that people are lying down on bench. So this is the nature. Luxury leads to poverty. So we should be very much careful. Don't think that "Because I am now initiated, I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, now everything is guaranteed. Now I shall do whatever I like." No. Then it will deteriorate. We should not utilize this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement for any material purpose. Then it will fall down. Either the man will fall down or the status will fall down. As it has become in India. Practically they have lost all spiritual interest, although India is the country for spiritual advancement of life. So either individually, collectively, socially, or politically, if we forget God, Kṛṣṇa, then it is sure to deteriorate. But foolish people, they do not know this. They think that "Our good days will go on like this," as the Britishers thought. I give the example of the Britishers because I have seen in my life how opulent were these Britishers, and I have seen now in London how they are dwindling. Everywhere.

*So such thing happened some long, long years ago in the family of Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja was a great devotee, and his family members also were great devotees, but gradually they deteriorated. And one king, whose name is Mahārāja Vena, he was so extravagant just like demon. This also happened due to his mother. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. His mother was born not of a very good father, so she inherited the nature of this bad father, and her son also inherited the nature of his mother. But the king, the father, was very pious, as it should be. So with his son's behavior, he became so much disgusted that he left home without any notice. So the king's son, Vena, Mahārāja Vena, he was installed on the throne, but he behaved very badly, and the prajā, or the citizens, were very much unhappy. So the great sages and saintly persons approached the king, because the king is supposed to be directed by saintly persons. And they are advising, nṛpa-varya nibodha etad yat te vijñāpayāma bhoḥ. "My dear King, whatever we are speaking to you, kindly hear it with attention." Āyuḥ-śrī-bala-kīrtīnāṁ tava tāta vivardhanam: "If you kindly hear our advice, then you will live long." A pious man lives long. Impious man dies very soon. Even one who is pure devotee, he can prolong his duration of life more than what is destined for him. Everyone has got a destination that "This person will live for so many years, this person will live for so many years." But a pure devotee as a yogi can increase the duration of his life. Similarly, a pure devotee, although he does not artificially try to increase the duration of life, by God's grace his duration of life is increased. He is... A pure devotee is no longer within the rules and regulation of material nature. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Anyone who engages himself in pure devotional service, avyabhicāreṇa, he is no longer under the rules and regulation of this material nature. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate.

*So the sages address the king that "Kindly hear our instruction and your duration of life will be increased." Not only duration of life, śrī*-bala-kīrtīnāṁ. Śrī means beauty. Unless you are healthy, there will be no beauty of your body. So duration of life increased means he is healthy and, therefore, he should look bright and beautiful. Śrī-bala, strength, and kīrtīnāṁ. And if one is actually advanced in spiritual life or if one is actually religious, then his fame also increases. He doesn't require to advertise himself, but if he is pious, if he is devotee, automatically his fame will be expanded. Just like there is one very nice example, Śrī Mādhavendra Purī. Mādhavendra Purī was going to..., from this Vṛndāvana. Mādhavendra Purī. Perhaps you do not know the story of Mādhavendra Purī. Mādhavendra Purī was a great devotee in this Gauḍīya-sampradāya, and in this Govardhana, there was Gopāla covered by dirty and jungles and trees. So the Gopāla... When Mādhavendra Purī was in Vṛndāvana, the Gopāla in dream expressed Himself, "Mādhavendra Purī, I am very much suffocated. I am covered by this dirt and jungles. Please re-excavate Me from this condition and install Me in the temple." So Mādhavendra Purī, with the help of villagers, he excavated the earth and found this Gopāla mūrti. And this Gopāla mūrti was installed by the help of the villagers very luxuriantly. For so many days there was festival. That is the way of installing Deity. At least for seven days there must be festival. So after some days, Mādhavendra Purī was informed in dream that "Since I was long within the earth, My body is very much heated. So you kindly bring some sandalwood from Jagannātha Purī and smear all over the body the pulp of sandalwood, then I shall be happy."

*So Mādhavendra Purī was very old man at that time, and it is order of Gopālajī, so he started for Jagannātha Purī. On the way there is a Gopīnātha temple in Orissa, on the border of Orissa and Bengal in the district of Dantarn(?), that is called Danta(?). So he stayed there overnight and he saw that the Gopāla..., Gopīnāthajī was offered kṣīra, seven pots of kṣīra. So Mādhavendra Purī thought within himself, "If I could taste a little kṣīra, then I would also make such kṣīra to offer my Gopāla in Vṛndāvana." Then again he thought that "Oh, I am so stupid that before offering to the Deity I am thinking of eating it." He thought himself to be very much culprit, and he immediately left the temple, "No, I shall not. I am committing offense." It is an offense. Therefore, when you bring bhoga for the Deity, it should be covered so that we greedy men may not see it and try to taste it. Kaniṣṭha*-adhikārīs, they sometimes do that. Sometimes they take away something before offering to the Deity. These are great offenses. So Mādhavendra Purī thought it that he was a great offender; *he should not live in this temple, he should go outside. So he went outside, and underneath a tree he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, just to pass over the night, then proceed toward Jagannātha Purī. So at night the Deity, Gopīnātha, was asking the pūjārī, the priest, that "I have kept one pot of kṣīra behind My back garment," pitavastra(?) "So you take this pot of kṣīra, condensed milk, to Mādhavendra Purī-he is sitting underneath a tree*-and offer him." So the pūjārī wake up, and actually when he opened the door of the Deity room, he found that pot of kṣīra. So he could understand that "This Mādhavendra Purī is not an ordinary devotee, he is a great devotee; *otherwise how the Lord has stolen this pot for him?" Since then, that Gopīnātha is famous as Kṣīra*-corā Gopīnātha. Kṣīra-corā Gopīnātha, the Gopīnātha who stole the kṣīra for His devotee.

*So He is known as thief, Kṣīra*-corā. He is famous as a great thief. Still people go to see Him, how nice this thief is. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. When we are thief, we are beaten by shoes. And when Kṛṣṇa is thief, He is worshiped by devotees. Just like Kṛṣṇa is worshiped as Raṇacora, who left the war field. When a man leaves the war field, he is called coward. But Kṛṣṇa, everyone knows for pastimes He left the war field. It was in the Gujarat province. Kṛṣṇa as the Raṇacora who left the war field. That is cowardice; *still He is worshiped. That is absolutism. Kṛṣṇa in any condition, He is Kṛṣṇa. Either as Kṣīra-corā Gopīnātha, or as a taunter to the gopīs, or any way in the material world which is abominable. But when Kṛṣṇa does it, because He is absolute, it is good. That is absolutism. You cannot accuse Kṛṣṇa that "Oh, You have done like this." Whatever He has done, it is right. So just last evening one boy was criticizing Kṛṣṇa that "Why Kṛṣṇa makes this distinction stri-śūdra-vaiśya as pāpa-yoni?" So this is Godlessness, that we dare to criticize Kṛṣṇa. We should not criticize Kṛṣṇa. But those who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa's position, they do, we have to inform them rightly what is the right thing. So actually Kṛṣṇa says that even the stri-śūdra-vaiśya, they are also elevated to the highest position if they take the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. The pāpa-yoni, the pious man or impious man, that is consideration of this material world. So long we are in this material world, there must be "this is good" and "this is bad." Although there is nothing good in this material world-everything is bad-but we have concocted some formulas that "This is good and this is bad." Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja says, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna. In the material world, bhadra-abhadra, anything bhadra and abhadra, good and bad, they are simply mental concoctions. There cannot be anything good. Just like a man suffering from some disease lying on the bed, a friend goes and ask him, "My dear friend, how you are feeling today?" He can say, "Yes, I am feeling today all right." What is that all right? He is lying on the bed and he is taking medicine, and so many discomfitures are there, and still he says, "I am all right." So in the material world, this prosperity, so-called prosperity, is not prosperity, because the next life I do not know what is going to happen. And the next life is there. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Therefore learned man, he sees always that "My happiness..., what is the value of this happiness? I will have to die, I will have to accept old age, I will have to suffer from disease. And as soon as I die, again I will have to enter into the womb of a particular mother to take birth again." So where is the happiness? In the womb of the mother to live for ten months in a very awkward position-we have forgotten*-that is not very happiness.

So our point was that this Mādhavendra Purī, when he got that pot of condensed milk, kṣīra, and the priest praised him, "Oh, you are such a great devotee that Kṛṣṇa has stolen for you this earthen, I mean to say, the condensed milk. So you take it." And he bowed down before him, took his dust of the lotus feet. Then Mādhavendra thought that "Now I have got this pot of condensed milk, next morning it will be advertised, and people will come in throng to congratulate me. So better leave this place immediately." That means he did not want to be advertised as a great devotee. He left, but immediately as he reached Jagannātha Purī, the news was already there, and every man came to congratulate him, "Oh, Mādhavendra Purī, you are so great devotee that Kṛṣṇa has stolen this condensed milk. We have heard it." So the point is that a devotee, even he does not know, does not want advertisement, Kṛṣṇa advertises him. Kṛṣṇa advertises him without his intention. Kṛṣṇa wants to see that his devotee is very much advertised as a devotee. Therefore, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya that "Who is the most famous man?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired, asked this question from Rāmānanda Rāya. He answered, "He is the most famous man who is known as a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He is the most famous man."

*So here, kīrti, fame, reputation. If one is religious, one is devotee, his reputation also increases, his strength of body also increases, his beauty increases, his duration of life increases. This is the purport. Āyuḥ-śrī*-bala-kīrtīnāṁ tava tāta vivardhanam. "The saintly persons said, 'My dear King, if you kindly follow our instruction, then these things will increase: your duration of life, your beauty of body, your strength, and your reputation.'" So what is that instruction? He says,

dharma ācaritaḥ puṁsāṁ

*vāṅ*-manaḥ-kāya-buddhibhiḥ

lokān viśokān vitaraty

athānantyam asaṅginām



*He said that every man should execute his particular duty of life. That is called dharma. Now, we manufacture our duty, that is another thing, but according to śāstra, just like Kṛṣṇa says, cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Duty means according to this cātur-varṇyaṁ, four varṇas and four āśramas. That is called dharma, sādharma. The brāhmaṇa must execute his brahminical duties, a kṣatriya must execute his kṣatriya duties, similarly vaiśya, a śūdra, a brahmacārī, a gṛhastha, a vānaprastha, sannyāsī. That is called dharma. This is material dharma, this is not spiritual dharma. Material dharma means so long we are under the concept of this body, there are certain duties. That is called material dharma. Just like we eat, this is also one of the duty, because if I don't eat, then I shall die. But what kind of food I shall eat, that is described in the śāstra, that sattvic, rajasic, tamasic bhojana. So if we follow the instruction of the śāstra, dharma-śāstra ... They are called dharma-śāstra, the regulative principles. There are twenty kinds of dharma-śāstra, just to regulate because every one of us come to enjoy this world. Just like government rules and regulation. Suppose you are selling liquor. The thing is bad, but because people want it, government gives license that you can sell for the drunkard but under these rules and regulations, not freely. Similarly, the living entities, all the conditioned souls who have come here in this material world, their real purpose is how to enjoy this material world. They have no other purpose. Because a living entity is not enjoyer, he is servitor. But when he wants to enjoy, he is sent into this material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our only duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. There is no other duty. Therefore Kṛṣṇa demands, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We have no other duty, just to serve Kṛṣṇa. But when we forget our position, constitutional position, and we try to enjoy this material world, that is called materialistic way of life or conditioned life. So just like drinking. Drinking is not good. Nobody supports. But when a drunkard is persistent to drink, the government gives him some concession, "All right, this man will die without drinking. All right. You can take your liquor from that shop, licensed shop, and you can purchase under such a condition, 'You do not do this, do not do this,' " there are so many regulations. But there is no such restriction for eating rice or dahl, because that is not bad. The bad thing... Just like slaughterhouse. Slaughterhouse is not open to the public. It is done in a secret place so that people may not see. It is ghastly. So anything bad, that is licensed, licensed. Just like sex life. Sex life is also not very good thing. Therefore, the license is marriage. If you want to enjoy sex life, all right, take this license, marriage, not beyond that. Then you will be criminal.

*That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā hi jantor na hi tatra codanā. These things-to be intoxicated, to enjoy sex life, to eat meat*-a natural propensity is there in everyone. When śāstra says that "You do it like this," that means that is restriction. Just like according to Vedic civilization, those who are meat-eaters, for them it is allowed that you can kill..., not kill, you can sacrifice one goat before Goddess Kali on the amāvasyā night under such-and-such restriction. That means indirectly it is discouraging, "Don't do it. But if you do it, you do in this way." But people even do not do that. The meat-eaters, without undergoing the process of meat-eating as it is described in the dharma-śāstra, they directly purchase from the slaughterhouse and, therefore, so many slaughterhouses are maintained in this world. So everything is becoming against the religious principle. Therefore, the world is unhappy. The munaya, the great sages, therefore, advising the king, dharma ācaritaḥ puṁsāṁ vāṅ-manaḥ-kāya-buddhibhiḥ. [break] (Hindi)

Indian Man: (Hindi)

*Prabhupāda: The spiritual world, there are also so many planets as we have got planets in this material world. Beyond the sky, there is another spiritual sky. That information is there in the Bhagavad*-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakto'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another sky, which is eternal, it is beyond this manifested and nonmanifested material cosmic world. So in that world, nothing is vanquished. Everything is permanent, eternal. The jīva, the living entity, is eternal, and Kṛṣṇa is also eternal, and His abode, Vaikuṇṭha-dhāma or Goloka Vṛndāvana-dhāma, that is also eternal. This Vṛndāvana is replica of that Vṛndāvana. When Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet, he comes here in this Vṛndāvana land. Therefore, it is so..., it is transcendental, because it is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, pastimeous place. Therefore it is transcendental. It is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. As much as Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, similarly this Vṛndāvana is also worshipable. Therefore Vaiṣṇavas, especially Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas... Because this Vṛndāvana was established by the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas. The Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas under the order of Lord Caitanya, Sanātana Gosvāmī first of all came here. You have seen his old temple at Madana-Mohana. He was..., because he was ordered by his master, he came here, but it was a field only, there was no building, no nothing, nobody knew. But under the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this Vṛndāvana city was established by Sanātana Gosvāmī. And later on, when Sanātana Gosvāmī first of all established the Madana-Mohana temple and then after Rūpa Gosvāmī established Govindaji's temple, then all other temples gradually developed. Many kings and princes came here. That is the history of this Vṛndāvana city. Of course, Vṛndāvana was existing because Kṛṣṇa had His pastimes here. But because it is five thousand years ago, so many things happened. The relics were lost practically, but by the endeavor of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His devotees, this Vṛndāvana is in the present condition.

*So Vṛndāvana is viśokān, vigata-śoka. There is no anxiety. If anyone comes to the Vṛndāvana and chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he will have no disturbance. Still thousands and thousands of people are here, they do not like to go away from Vṛndāvana because it is so pleasing and anxiety*-less, viśokān. But if you have got another, ulterior motive, then that is a different... Then māyā will capture even in Vṛndāvana. That is also going on. That is also going on. There are... We do not wish to criticize them, but that is also going on. So bhakti, therefore, should be without any material intention.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*First*-class devotion without any motive.

So the sages said that if you execute the prescribed duties of the humankind, then ultimately you will be elevated to the planet where there is no anxiety and you will be liberated, provided you keep yourself without any contamination of this material world. That can be done. That is also given by Rūpa Gosvāmī.

anāsaktasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

*nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe

*yukta*-vairāgyam ucyate



If we want to be aloof from the contamination of this material world, then everything, whatever we use, whatever we need, it must be in relation with Kṛṣṇa. Then we can keep ourself aloof from the contamination. That is the liberated condition. That means you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. If you always be engaged in the service of the Kṛṣṇa, then you are above this material world, uncontaminated. But if you have got any material intention, then again you are under the clutches of māyā. We should always remember it.

Thank you very much. (end)





*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Canto 5.5: Lectures



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

--

Los Angeles, January 20, 1969

690120SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

-

Los Angeles, January 20, 19



*Prabhupāda: (aside:) Where is that table light? Table light? (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) In the last meeting we are discussing about the life of a fallen brāhmaṇa, Ajāmila. He was addicted to prostitute. Therefore his high standard of life became degraded. This morning also we were reading in the Īśopaniṣad that God is apāpa*-viddham. "A" means not, and pāpa means sin, and viddham, infected. The God is never infected by sin, sinful activities. Common sense. Just like a king orders somebody to be killed, "This man should be killed." This killing is sinful for the ordinary citizen, but killing by the order of the supreme executive head, the president or the king, that is not criminal. If you say that "Killing by me is criminal. Why it is not criminal for you, you, the president or the king?" I am giving a crude example. Similarly, if you go higher and higher, when you come to God...



*First of all, what is the conception of God? Conception of God is "God is great. Nobody is greater than Him, and nobody is equal to Him." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. The exact Sanskrit word is asama-ūrdhva. Asama means "not equal." Nobody can be equal to God. This is analyzed by great ācāryas. They have analyzed the characteristics of God. They have characterized the characteristic are sixty*-four. And out of that sixty-four, we have, we living entities, we have got fifty only. And that is also in very minute quantity. Fifty qualities of God we have got, but that is in minute quantity. Take, for example, just like God has got also the tendency to love young girl. Take it for a crude example. Just like God is dancing with young girls. But we have also the same tendency. We also want to be surrounded by young girls and dance, we enjoy. But the thing is that you can enjoy in the company of a few girls. That is minute quantity. But God can dance with unlimited number of girls. That you cannot. These are crude examples.

*So these sixty*-four qualities, they have analyzed that we living entities, we have got in minute quantities. And amongst the living entities, the highest perfection is to be seen in the life of Brahmā, who is the chief living entity within this universe. So similarly, Lord Śiva has got fifty-five. Lord Nārāyaṇa has got sixty. But Kṛṣṇa has got in full sixty-four. Cent percent, hundred percent all the qualities. Therefore either Lord Śiva or Lord Brahmā or the living entities, nobody can be equal to Him. This is the conception of God. Asamordhva. And in the Bhagavad-gītā you have seen that Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Dhanañjaya, My dear Arjuna, there is nobody superior to Me." So just like some heating agent. You have got several heating agent. You have got heater in your apartment, oven in your apartment. There are so many different varieties of heater. But the heat of the sun cannot be compared with any other heat. You cannot say that "Because I have got little heat, I have become sun." (laughs) This is ludicrous; it is not possible. So those who are claiming that "I am God," "Everyone is God," they are simply, what can I say? Less intelligent persons. (laughter) They have no conception what is God. They do not know what is God. This claim that "I am God," that means he has no idea what is God. Therefore he is falsely claiming. You may have minute quantity of God's quality, but that does not mean you are God. Just like the same example. You may have a minute quantity of the total heat of the sun, but that does not mean you are sun. So qualitatively we are one, everyone has got some temperature, 98 degrees. But not that a million degree. That is not possible. Why the million? If you rise your temperature to 107 degrees, then finished your life. These are practical.

*So because Lord Kṛṣṇa is all*-powerful, you cannot compare with Kṛṣṇa. He's apāpa-viddham. No contamination can touch Him. But for that reason you cannot say, you cannot imitate Kṛṣṇa and you cannot say that "No contamination can touch me." No. That is not possible. Therefore the whole life, our this human form of life, is a chance to purify so that we may approach. At least, if we get that fifty-five, fifty degrees, fifty parts or fifty fractional portions of God's quality, even in minute quantity, then we can approach God. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that pavitraṁ paramam [Bg. 10.12]. Pavitra, pavitra means purity. So "You are, Kṛṣṇa, You are the supreme pure." So because we are trying by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are trying to approach Kṛṣṇa... Just like if you want to approach the sun, the same example can be given. Everything is there in the nature. If you study minutely, you become learned philosopher. But if we want to enter the sun planet, then you must equip yourself. Just like you are trying to go to the moon planet by artificially dressing, but still, you cannot stay there more than a few hours-if we suppose that somebody has gone there. So this is the position. If you want to enter into the sun planet also... That is also a planet. That is also possible. If it is possible to enter into the moon planet, then it is also possible to enter into the sun planet. Why not? And there are living entities. We get information from Vedic literature. But you have to raise your temperature so that you can exist there. Similarly, God is Supreme Pure. If you want to go back home, back to home, back to Godhead, then you have to become pure, without any contamination of this material world.

The contamination of material world is called seed. That is seed. Just like you infect some disease, germ, you become diseased. I have got some infection, so I am diseased. You may know it or not know it, that doesn't matter. If you infect, knowingly or unknowingly, you will be diseased. So what is that infection? That infection, that is stated in the *Īśopaniṣad*, we read every morning, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. This everything what we see, either in the sky or in the water or outside our vision, everything belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. So everything God's property. You cannot, even you are son of God, you cannot take anything without God's permission. Just like even your father's property. You'll inherit your father's... That's a fact. But suppose a father has got on the table one thousand dollars. If you take it without his permission, if you think that "It is my father's money," but by law you become a criminal. Your father can prosecute you criminally. That is the state law. Even it is your father's money, even your father is very kind, but if you take your father's money without his permission, then you are a criminal. And what to speak of others?

Similarly, we are all sons of God. That's a fact. Kṛṣṇa says,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*Aham. Kṛṣṇa says that "All these living entities in 8,400,000's of species..." He doesn't mean that only human being. The animals, the birds, beasts, trees, everything-all living entities*-they are all sons of God. He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ. The material nature is the mother. Just like in ordinary way, the father and mother requires to give a birth to a child. Similarly, this material nature is the mother. We have got this body from the mother, material nature. Just like we get the body from the mother's womb. Father gives the seed and mother gives the body. In the combination we get out. Similarly, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4], Kṛṣṇa impregnates this material nature with the living entities, and when there is creation they come out. This is the process.



So we are fallen in this material condition of life, and because we have disobeyed without the permission of father, we have misused our independence, therefore we are condemned within this material world. The īśāvāsya, the *Īśopaniṣad* teaches us, therefore reminds us, that "My dear human being..." The śāstras, the scriptures, the *Vedas*, they're meant for human being, not for the dogs, cats. Those who are not taking advantage of these scriptures of Vedic literatures, they are no more than animals. Because animals, they cannot take advantage of this knowledge. But human being can take. Therefore it is said, indicated in the śāstras, that this body is very suitable boat for crossing over this ocean of nescience. We are in the ocean, this outer space, the big space within this universe. It is to be considered just like a big ocean, and all the planets, they're just like islands. Therefore in the Vedic literature sometimes these planets are called dvīpa. Dvīpa means island. Śvetadvīpa. This planet is called Jambūdvīpa. Just like in the ocean, there are many hundreds of small, big island. Similarly, the ocean of air or outer space, there are so many planets. They are called dvīpas. So īśāvāsyam... So all this belongs to God. And we, we are, because we are His sons, we have got the right to use our father's property, but not illegally. What is allotted to us by our father we can accept, that's all. One who lives... That is stated in the *Īśopaniṣad*, that kurvann eveha karmāṇi jijīviṣec chataṁ samāḥ. If you accept this principle, then you can live for hundreds of years without any sin. Otherwise you become complicated in the laws of material nature. And so long we are complicated, entangled by the laws of material nature, then we shall have to transmigrate from this one kind of body to another kind of body, and our material existence will be prolonged.

*So here, I shall try to explain the teachings of Ṛṣabhadeva, His teachings to His sons. "My dear son," nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke, "My dear sons, this body," nṛloke... He has particularly mentioned: nṛloke, this body in the human society. Ayaṁ dehaḥ, this body, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha-bhājām means anyone who is embodied. So the cats, dogs, trees, birds, beasts, insects, reptiles, they have all body. But He's specifically mentioning nṛloke, the body in the human society. Ayaṁ dehaḥ, "This body in the human society," nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1], "it is not meant for working very hard to satisfy the senses." Why you are working so hard? What is the principle? What is the aim? Everyone is working very hard. What is the...? Sense gratification. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Simply for sense gratification we should not work so hard."

*That is the verdict of Vedic literature. If you say that we have got senses, so in order to keep the body fit, we have to give something for the enjoyment of the senses. That is accepted, yes. But don't aggravate it. The śāstra says that do not increase artificially the demands of the senses. Then you will be entangled. Just like eating. We have got tongue, we have got belly. We require to eat something for maintaining the body. That's right*-you maintain. But do not try to satisfy the senses, tongue or belly or any other senses, unreasonably. Why? That is unreasonable. What is that unreasonable? Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ [Īśo mantra 1]. What is ordained to you, what is allotted to you, you eat. Just like for human being. Human being-Kṛṣṇa, or God, has given so many nice things. God has given us grains, rice, pulses, vegetables, and fruits, flowers, so many, milk. Are they not sufficient for maintaining our body and soul together? Yes, why not? Those who are vegetarians... Simply you take, for example, we, all the members in the temple. We live simply on these things, fruits, vegetables, grains, milk, that's all. So are we dying for want of food? Then why should we eat meat? What is the reason? Simply for satisfaction of the tongue? If I can live peacefully, otherwise which is allotted to me by God, why shall I give trouble to another animal for satisfaction of my tongue? What is the reason? If you have no food... Of course, in the deserted country, just he has to find out "Where is stool, where is stool?" You see?

*So there are different grades of life. So does it mean that we shall live a life like a hog while we have got this human form of body? Just try to understand. The hog is eating stool, which is rejected by everyone. And still, he is searching that out, where is that stool. And it is called research work. So we should not make our life complicated like the hog. And what is the aim of his life, the hog? The aim of his life is sex. The hogs and, especially hogs and goats, they're very sexually influenced. The hog does not discriminate. The monkeys, they do not discriminate-mother, sister, or anyone*-they must have sex. So especially mentioned here, not like hog, don't live like hog. This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva. This human form of life is not meant for living like a hog. Then what it is for? That is stated in the next line, tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. "My dear boys, this life is meant for tapasya." Tapasya means restraining your senses. That is. That is human life. That is human civilization. The more you restrain your senses from its activities, the more you're advanced, civilized, advanced human life. Tapasya. Tapasya means, tapa, tapa, from tap, tapa comes. Tapa means temperature.

*So if I restrain my senses, because we are, from time immemorial, we have been practiced to indulge our senses for gratification, and in the human form of life, because we have to control the senses, it sometimes gives us some pains. I am accustomed to do something, but my spiritual master said... Just like in this country I say that you cannot take meat, you cannot smoke. So all my students, they were accustomed to this habit, but by my order they have restrained. In the beginning there is plot of land and a cow*-your whole economic question is solved. Why you should work so hard day and night? So we have created a civilization simply working hard day and night, and the purpose is sense gratification. That's all. That is prohibited. Make your life simplified. Save your time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the program. Don't be implicated with sinful activities. Simple life. Just like your father says, "My dear boy, you take your food just in time, and you do this work, and I'll be satisfied." If you do that, then father is satisfied. But if you take from the pocket of your father or from the cash box without his permission, then you are criminal.

*So by God's arrangement, everything is there. Everything. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. Everything is complete in this world. There is no scarcity. We have simply created scarcity by our mismanagement. But if we take up the laws as they are prescribed in the scriptures and live peacefully, there is no scarcity. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that in this world there is no scarcity by the arrangement of God. But the only scarcity is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. They're materially conscious. They're sensually conscious. That has to be changed. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that to satisfy our senses, that is also available in the life of a hog. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujam, a animal who eats stool, viḍ-bhujam. That means the hog. The hog is also an animal, a living entity, and you'll find that it is working whole day, wherever there is stool, simply searching out. Research work-where there is stool. Because he has been made into that abominable condition of life that he is eating stool, he, still... Like Arabia, simply desert, sand. So for them, they can kill some animal and eat, because they cannot die for want of food. But here, in America, you have got sufficient foodstuff. Why should you kill animals? You have got sufficient grains, sufficient fruit, sufficient milk, and is it very nice thing that you take milk from the cow, who is your mother, and kill at the same time? Is that very good reason?

*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, He says this human form of body is not meant for mismanaging the whole thing for the satisfaction of the senses. That is not meant for human beings. Ayaṁ nṛloke, nṛloke. The human society, He is speaking to the human society. We are speaking to the human society. We are not calling cats and dogs, "Come here, please hear Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam." That is not possible. They cannot. But we are inviting those who are enlightened human beings, "Please come, just try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be happy." That's all. We want to see every human being to be happy. That is our program.

So Ṛṣabhadeva says, kaṣṭān kāmān. Just try to under... We are not criticizing the modern method of living. Of course, automatically it becomes criticized. But we are speaking from the śāstras. He says, Ṛṣabhadeva says, kaṣṭān kāmān. For your sense gratification do not arrange something very dangerous or very tiresome, laborsome. Make your life simplified. That is allotted by Kṛṣṇa. We have got a place, New Vrindaban, in West Virginia. With little effort, they produce so much vegetables that they cannot eat, they cannot finish. They cannot finish. So God has given us land, God has given us producing experience. So wherever you live, it doesn't matter, if you have got a little some pain. So that pain is called tapasya. Voluntarily accepting little pain. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. And what for that pains taking? Divyam, for realizing the Absolute Truth. Not for that... Just like a student is working very hard to find out the possibilities of nuclear weapon. That is also tapasya. But what is that? For finding out some means to kill the human society. That sort of tapasya is not required. Tapo divyam.

*So you may answer that "Why shall I take so much pains for realizing the Absolute? I can take some pains here for material acquisition, I shall be happy here. I do not..." That answer is also given. Tapo divyam... Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. "My dear boys, you just take to this austerity, life of austerity, for realizing the Absolute, by which your existence will be purified." We began... Because we require this human form of life is meant for being purified. So just like a diabetic patient is advised by the physician not to take so many things-not to take sugar, not to take this, not to take this-that prohibition is meant for his curing. Similarly, here also, if we accept some voluntary pains in giving up our sense gratificatory process, then our existence will be purified. Tapo divyam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Sattvam means your existence. Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet. Śuddhyet means becomes purified. Then you may ask "What is the result?" "Suppose if I purify by your prescription." Śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Because if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited pleasure. Your life is, you are finding out where is pleasure. That is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Every living entities is fit for enjoying because he's part and parcel of God. Because he part and parcel, he's also enjoyer, although in the minute quantity. But he can enjoy in association with God. So in order to enter into the association of God, he has to purify himself. Yasmād brahma-sau... Brahma, brahma-saukhyam. Brahma means the unlimited or spiritual. Spiritual means unlimited, unending, eternal*-the greatest. These are some of the meanings of brahma.

*So you are searching after pleasure, that is your prerogative. That is your right. You must be. But you are searching in this sense gratificatory platform, you'll never get it. If you purify your this existence, then you get unlimited pleasure in your spiritual existence. Unlimited pleasure. Brahma*-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Anantam means unlimited. So this life we should utilize for purifying, not for extravagancy in sense gratification. You'll not suffer at... You'll... This is māyā. Actually, just like a child, a boy, wants to play, and the father prescribes him, "My dear boy, do not play so long. Please read." So he's thinking that "My father is prescribing something which is very troublesome." But actually this tapasya, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness regulated life, is not for trouble. It is for your progress of life to the spiritual understanding, where you get unlimited eternal life, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. God is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Sat, cit, ānanda. Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda, full of pleasure. So as soon as you become purified from this material existence, then you enter into the spiritual kingdom, and you get your body sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha and live there eternally in full knowledge and full bliss.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

Devotee: Should we do kīrtana?



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you have any questions you can ask. All right, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) (end)





690912SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

-

Tittenhurst, London, September 1



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)



*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*This is a verse instructed by Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva to his sons. Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva was incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, long, long years ago. And He was the emperor of the whole world. Formerly there was only one king on this planet. In every planet there is a predominating personality. In every... Not only this planet, all other planets also. And the predominating deity, or you may call the king or emperor... In the moon planet he is called Candra. Similarly, the predominating deity or the emperor of the sun planet, at the present moment he is called Vivasvān. So the predominating deity or the emperor in each and every important planet, they are mentioned in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. That means the author of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam has complete knowledge not only of this universe, but also beyond the universe.



Beyond the universe, there is spiritual sky. There are also different planets. But in those planets the predominating deity is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. And in this material world, in each and every planet, the predominating deity or the person is a very pious human being or living being. Generally, human being. In other higher planetary system they are also like human being. Their features are exactly like us: two hands, two legs, one head, like that. But they are very pious. They are God conscious. Every, in every planet the living entities or human being, they are of different grades. Just like in this planet also, in some portion of this world there are savages, uncivilized persons, and in some portion of the world there are civilized persons, intelligent persons, God conscious persons, as there are different grades of persons in this planet, similarly, there are different grades of beings, living beings or human beings, in different other planets. The higher and lower grades are calculated in terms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Consciousness is there everywhere, every living entity. Not only human being but also animals, the consciousness is there. But the difference is, consciousness without Kṛṣṇa is lower grade, and consciousness of Kṛṣṇa in different degrees, they are higher grade. And when the consciousness is completely Kṛṣṇa, that is the highest position, or that is the real position of the living entity.

*So this human form of life... Mahārāja Bharata is instructing to His sons. He had one hundred sons. So all of them assembled together, and the king, before retirement, was instructing. (aside:) Let him come in. (pause) So, instructing His sons. It is the duty of the father that before retirement... Now, here is one significant point. Why the king was retiring? That is the system, Vedic system. Either one is king or one is ordinary human being, at a certain age he must retire. That is Vedic system. Not that because one is king and one has ample opportunities for sense enjoyment, therefore he should indulge in sense enjoyment without retiring from family life. That is not Vedic system. The Vedic system is, the aim is, how to elevate oneself to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Vedic system. You have read Bhagavad*-gītā. In the Fifteenth Chapter, fifteenth verse, you'll find, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. The whole Vedic system is designed or planned how to know Kṛṣṇa. So if you follow Vedic system, then the ultimate objective should be to know Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vedic version and corroborated by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself. He is the original compiler of Vedas; therefore His version should be accepted, that the objective of studying Vedas means to know Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15].

*Therefore the king, Ṛṣabhadeva, is advising, instructing His sons... He was retiring. Why He was retiring? He could enjoy His kingdom. Just like at the present moment, either a king or a family man does not retire. Even a poor man living in with family with great difficulties, but if you ask him to retire, he'll not be agreeable. We have asked many old men. He's suffering, he's not happy within his family members, but if I say, "Why you are taking so much trouble with the family? Why not come and live with us in Kṛṣṇa consciousness society?" he'll not agree. Because he has no Vedic training. Up to the end of this life he'll stick to the family life. Many, many politicians... In our country we have seen many old politicians, seventy*-five years old, eighty years old. Not only in our country, in other countries also. In your country, Great Britain, Mr. Churchill, unless he was forced to death, he would not give up politics. Our Gandhi, he was killed by another political group. Then he was forced to retire. When Gandhi attained independence, I requested him in a letter, "Mahatma Gandhi, now you started your struggle with the Britishers, that they should go and Indians should have their independence. Now you have attained independence and Britishers have gone. Now you preach Bhagavad-gītā. You have got some influence. You are known throughout the whole world a very great saintly person, and you also pose yourself that you are a great scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you take up Bhagavad-gītā and preach?" There was no reply. And he was still meddling with politics, so much so that his own assistants became disgusted. And it is said that he was planned to be killed. Just see how much intoxication of this materialistic way of life. He was considered a mahātmā, a great personality, and he got his svarājya. The Britishers left India. Still, he would not give up politics. Still, he would stick-unless he was forced to give up, he was killed. Similarly, Jawaharlal Nehru also. Nobody would retire voluntarily-unless he is killed by somebody or he is killed by the laws of material nature. This is the disease. He cannot give it up. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. The māyā is so strong that even an old man advertising to be very pious man, he cannot give up politics. Because māyā is so strong, he's thinking, "If I leave political field, my countrymen will suffer, and so many disaster will happen." He's thinking like that.

But actually, things will go on. Many politicians came and gone. In your country there were many, many great politicians; *they came and gone. But your country people are still living and they are going on. In Germany also, many Hitlers came and gone. Similarly, in India also many Gandhis came and gone. But things are going on. This is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Everything is being done by the laws of nature. You cannot change it. There is a plan, God's plan. It will go on. You don't have to bother yourself, that without you, everything will be topsy*-turvied. No. You cannot do anything. You are falsely thinking that your leadership is very much needed. No. I was thinking. When I was householder, several times there was indication given by my Guru Mahārāja that I should give up family life and become a sannyāsī and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. In several way there was hints from my spiritual master, but still, I was not willing. I was thinking, "If I go away, then my family, my sons, my daughters, they will suffer." But actually, I have left my family connection in 1950. Actually '54, but introductory in '50. For the last twenty years. But they are living; I am living. They are not dying in my absence, and I am not suffering without being in my family. On the other hand, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, I have got better family members. I have got nice children in a foreign country. They are taking so much care of me, I could not expect such care from my own children.



*So this is God's grace. We should depend on Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is kind, wherever we go, everyone will be pleased, everyone will be kind. And if Kṛṣṇa is unpleased, even in your family life you'll not be comfortable. Therefore, according to the Vedic system, at a certain age, it is indicated that one should retire from family life. So this Ṛṣabhadeva Mahārāja, He was retired. Although He had one hundred sons, all obedient sons, He was emperor, anything was at His command*-still, He was retiring. That is the Vedic system. He had no disadvantage. He was personally the incarnation of Godhead, an emperor, very obedient sons, and opulence, everything complete. There are many instances. His son, Bharata Mahārāja, he also retired. You have seen Parīkṣit Mahārāja. After his retirement, this Bhāgavata was recited before him. His grandfather, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, they voluntarily retired. So that is the system. In the early age, either you become a son of a king or you are son of an ordinary man, you must go to the āśrama of spiritual master and live there as servant. That is called brahmacārī. Brahmacārī's life means to serve the spiritual master as menial servant. Whatever he will ask, the brahmacārī will do. It is so much strict that brahmacārī, whatever he collects, he gives to the spiritual master, the spiritual master's property. It is not his property. And the spiritual master, if he forgets to call one disciple, "My dear son, come and take your prasādam," then he will not take prasādam even, without being called. He will starve. Of course, spiritual master does not forget, but these are the injunctions, that if he does not ask you, "Come and take your prasādam," then you should not touch, yourself. There are so many strictures.

*So this is the beginning of life, and these strictures are followed even if he is son of a king or even if he is Supreme Personality of Godhead. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also undergone this disciplinary action when He was a brahmacārī for some time. So this is the system. In the beginning of life one should become brahmacārī, and then he marries and lives with wife and children, at most twenty*-five years. Then he retires. The husband and wife goes from one pilgrimage to another, in this way travels. Because the children are grown up. And when the husband is completely free from all family attachment, he takes sannyāsa. This is the process. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So this Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva, before retirement it is the duty of the father to give instructions how to look after family affairs, their personal affair, their spiritual advancement, everything, so here Ṛṣabhadeva is instructing, "My dear sons, do not think that this particular body, human body, is equal to the body of the cats and dogs and hogs. Don't consider like that." He has particularly mentioned viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool-eater. As in the human society, the dog-eater human being is considered the lowest of the human society, similarly, in the animal society, the animal which eats stool is considered the lowest. So the gradation of human being is also calculated according to the eating process. This is... Modern thinker also says, in your country, Dr. Bernard Shaw? He has written one book. I think it is named You Are What You Eat. So eating is very important thing. If you eat like cats and dogs, then you'll become cats and dogs even in this human form of life. If you behave like cats and dogs, you become cats and dogs even in the human form of life. Similarly, if you work hard, very hard, like cats and dogs or hogs, then what is the value of your human life? Human life should be very sober, peaceful, full of knowledge, full of bliss, peaceful, devotee. These are the good signs of purity. Simply working hard like animal and eating like animal and... No.

*That particular thing is being instructed by Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons, "My dear sons, this human form of life..." Ayaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. "Everyone has got body, but the body in the human society is to be treated differently. It should not be just like the hogs." The hogs, whole day and night, they are after stool and sense gratification. Similarly, if human being, his whole day and night after eating and sense gratification, then he's missing the opportunity. That is the instruction. Human life should be regulated. You should eat this kind of foodstuff, you should have sex life in this way, you should sleep in this way, you should act in this way, you should think... They're all regulative principles. You cannot do unrestricted things. In the human society there are books of regulation*-not for the animal society. The lawbook is meant for the human society, not for the animal society. So the human society becomes free, without observing any social conveniences or social custom or abiding by the laws-no, that is not human body. That is exactly like animal body.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you should not spoil this body, human form of body, like the hogs." He has specifically mentioned the name of the hogs, viḍ*-bhujām. Then what it is meant for? He said, tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. This human form of life is meant for austerity, penance. You should voluntarily accept some regulative principles, even they are not very much liking to you. Just like our students. They are, from the very beginning of their life they are accustomed to certain habits, but we are restricting. We say, "You cannot do this," and they are accepting, following. This is called tapasya. Tapo. Tapasya. Tapasya means I am habituated to smoking, suppose, and the spiritual master says, "You cannot smoke." So if he gives up smoking, he feels some inconvenience, some uncomfortable position. But because the spiritual master has ordered, he gives it up. This is called tapasya. Even at his inconvenience, he abides by the order of the spiritual master, regulative principle. That is called tapasya. He feels some inconvenience, but what can be done? He has accepted one spiritual master. A spiritual master means voluntarily accepting a great personality whose rules and regulations he must abide by. This is accepting of spiritual master, voluntarily accepting somebody, "Yes, sir. Whatever you say, I'll accept." Śiṣya. Śiṣya means who abides by the rules. That is called śiṣya. Or English, "discipline." From discipline, disciplic, disciplic succession. From the discipline. So either you take English or Sanskrit, the same meaning. Śiṣya means who accepts the ruling of his spiritual master; and disciple means also the same thing, who becomes disciplined by the spiritual master.

*So tapasya means even at the inconvenience of my personal comforts, I must abide by the orders of my spiritual master. This is called tapasya. And who is spiritual master? He does not manufacture any rules and regulation. He refers to the śāstra. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, sādhu-śāstra*-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. If you want to know who is a spiritual master, if you know who is a saintly person, then you should keep in the middle the śāstra, the scriptures, and you will corroborate. The saintly person, the spiritual master, and the śāstra corroborate if they are abiding one another. Yes. If spiritual master says something which is not in śāstra or scripture, that is not good. Of course, sometimes we do not..., we cannot understand, but that is the principle. Similarly, a saintly person also, a mahātmā also, cannot disregard the regulative principles of śāstra. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya: "A person who gives up obedience to the ruling of the scriptures," vartate kāma-kārataḥ, "and he acts in his own way, by his whims," na siddhiṁ sāvāpnoti, "he cannot attain perfection." These are the versions of Bhagavad-gītā. Na siddhiṁ sāvāp..., na sukham: "And at the same time, he cannot be happy." Na parāṁ gatim: "And what to speak of liberation?"

So therefore this tapasya means voluntarily accepting the rulings of scriptures, spiritual master, saintly person, and mold your life in that way. So He is instructing His sons, "My dear sons, don't spoil your life, living like cats and dogs and hogs. Utilize your life by tapasya, by voluntarily accepting the rulings of śāstra, spiritual master, saintly person." The question may be that "Why this injunction? Why I shall not live like an animal? And why I have to live under the regulative principles of scriptures and saintly person and spiritual master?" The answer is also there: tapo divyam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā: [SB 5.5.1] "My dear sons, this form of life should be utilized for tapasya." Why? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet: "If you accept these principles of life, then your existential condition will be purified." At the present moment we are contaminated by the material nature, modes, mostly ignorance and passion. So He's advising that if you abide by the rulings of tapasya, then your existential condition will be purified. Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet.

*Then the question may be, "What is the use of purifying?" The answer is also there. Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam: [SB 5.5.1] "And when your existential condition will be purified, then you will be situated on the transcendental platform of blissful life." And one may question, "What is that?" Brahma-saukhyam anantam. You are hankering after happiness, pleasure. So when your existential condition will be purified and you will be placed in the transcendental platform, at that time you will enjoy eternal happiness. You are all... After all, you are after happiness. Why you are struggling so much hard in this material existence? For happiness. Why you are after sense gratification? For happiness. Why you want to possess? For happiness. Why you want to become beautiful? For happiness. Why you want to eat so many things? For happiness. You go on. The happiness, your ultimate goal. But the happiness which you are now deriving from the sources you have manufactured, that is temporary. If you want to become happy by intoxication, how long? That is temporary. Any way. If you want to be happy by sex indulgence, how long? That is also for a few minutes, few seconds. But if you want eternal, continued happiness, then you have to purify your existential condition, you have to place yourself in the transcendental position, and you will feel that happiness.

*Therefore in another place, there is a version by the yogi..., by the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, ramante yogino 'nante. The yogis, they are also having sense gratification. But where? Anante: "With the Supreme." They are also having sense gratification. Ramaṇa. Ramaṇa means sense gratification. Just like Kṛṣṇa's name is Rādhā-Ramaṇa. His sense gratification is with Rādhārāṇī. So the sense gratification is also there, but not this sense... Don't consider like this. Here it is only... Sense gratification is a perverted reflection of the spiritual sense gratification. The whole devotional line of service is also sense gratification. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hṛṣīka means senses, and Hṛṣīkeśa means the master of the senses. The master of the senses is Kṛṣṇa. So when your senses will be applied for the sense gratification of Kṛṣṇa, that is your transcendental position. And when your senses will be employed for your sense gratification, that is material. This is the difference. So when one is situated in the transcendental platform, when one's existential conditions are purified by tapasya, by voluntarily accepting austerity and penance under the guidance of spiritual master, śāstras, scriptures, saintly person, at that time it will be possible that you are in the platform of satisfying the senses of Kṛṣṇa and you are fully satisfied.

How it is? The practical example I have given several times that in this body there are different parts of the body. The different parts of the body cannot enjoy senses or satisfy independently. The different parts of the body will depend on the whole body. You can catch up an nice cake, foodstuff, but the fingers, the parts of the body, cannot enjoy it. But if the fingers catch it and puts into the mouth, it goes to the stomach. Then there is some secretion from the stomach, and it goes to the heart, it turns into blood, it is transfused in different parts of the body, and immediately your finger becomes red. This is the process. Tapo divyaṁ yena [SB 5.5.1]. Sense gratification is there, but through Kṛṣṇa. Then you feel complete sense gratification. Just like the gopīs, perfect. All devotees, but the gopīs are the supreme.

So this is the process of human life, that we have to purify our present existential condition by voluntarily accepting the regulative principle given by the spiritual master, śāstras. Then we become purified. At that time our senses are employed in the service of the Supreme and we actually enjoy our senses.

Thank you very much. (end)



710830SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

-

London, August 30, 1971



Prabhupāda:



*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*Many millions of years ago, King Ṛṣabhadeva... He was incarnation of God. Before His retirement He instructed His sons. He had one hundred sons. The eldest one was Bharata, and under, after his name, this planet was called Bhāratavarṣa. Bhāratavarṣa at the present moment, what we understand, that small piece of land, India, Bhāratavarṣa does not mean that piece of land. Bhāratavarṣa means this whole planet. So before that, before Emperor Bharata, this planet was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa, and after the reign of Mahārāja Bharata this planet is known as Bhāratavarṣa. Gradually, the Vedic culture being forgotten, the whole planet is now divided. The seven islands, as already existing, they are mentioned in the Vedic literature also, sapta*-dvīpa. Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Australia, and the Archipelago (Arctic level?). In this way this whole world is divided into seven lands, islands.



*So Mahārāja Pṛthu..., er, Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva, before retirement... Formerly, even one is king, he was to take leave of householder affairs. The Vedic culture means that the social order and the spiritual order of life. The social order of life is mentioned in the Bhagavad*-gītā: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. According to quality and according to work, the social order is divided into four. The most intelligent class of men are called the brāhmaṇas, and the next intelligent class of men, namely the politicians, or one who wants to take part in administration, they are called kṣatriyas. And the next intelligent class of men, those who are busy in production-because we want food-so the productive class of men is called vaiśya, mercantile. And the laborer class of men, namely one who is neither intelligent nor administrator nor trader, but wants to live at the shelter of somebody, master, they are called śūdras. The brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, and the vaiśyas, they would never accept subordination, service, under anyone. But the śūdras, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. By nature, a śūdra wants to take shelter of somebody else and live.

*So at the present moment, the Kali*-yuga, the śāstra says, almost everyone is a śūdra because nobody can live independently. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Kalau means in this age, this iron age, almost everyone is a śūdra. It is very difficult to find out really brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Vaiśyas maybe there are. But mostly śūdras. Because the other three orders of life are missing, therefore at the present moment there is no peace. In every step there is fight, there is quarrel. Kali means disagreement and quarrel. So this age is called Kali-yuga. This Kali-yuga has begun since the Battle of Kurukṣetra. You have heard in Mahābhārata or in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is within Mahābhārata. The Battle of Kurukṣetra between the two section of cousin-brothers, the Kauravas and the Pāṇḍavas, took place under the guidance of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago. And in that battlefield, Kṛṣṇa instructed Arjuna, His friend, the great book of knowledge, Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā.

*So human life must be divided into four orders, varṇāśrama*-dharma. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



*The aim of human life is to understand God. That is the main business of human life. Main... Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Viṣṇu is the Supreme Lord, Supreme Personality of Godhead. People, they do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. The ultimate goal of life is to understand the Lord, the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu means "all-pervading God." God is not localized. God is all-pervading. Just like it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā,



*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac*-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.35]



God... (aside:) That child is disturbing. One plenary portion of the Supreme Lord. The Lord... That is also described.



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*So God has innumerable expansions. By His one expansion, eko 'py asau racayitum, one expansion, Mahā*-Viṣṇu, is responsible for the cosmic manifestation. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim [Bs. 5.35]. Innumerable universes. The universe which we see generally, up to the sky cover, a round sky, this is only one universe. And there are innumerable universes. Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Koṭi means one hundred thousand multiplied by another hundred. So innumerable. And all the jagad-aṇḍas, or brahmāṇḍas, or universes, taken together is called the material world. The material world does not mean this tiny planet. This tiny planet on which we are living, it is very, very insignificant. There are millions of planets within, and it is one out of many. So similarly, there are this universe, and millions of universes also. So within all the universes, all these planets, there are living entities. We cannot understand why there is no living entity on the moon planet. According to our Vedic literature, the moon planet is one of the heavenly planets. So there is description that every planet has various types of living entities. Even in the sun planet there are living entities.



*So this planet-we are talking of this planet*-this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva was the emperor of this planet. Before retirement, He instructed his children, His one hundred sons, "My dear boys, this human form of life," na ayaṁ deha, "this body..." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha-bhājām means there are other living entities also. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Out of them, only 400,000 forms of bodies are human beings. Out of the 400,000 species of human beings, mostly they are uncivilized. And out of them, a very few men are civilized. And out of many civilized persons, a very few know what is Vedic knowledge. And out of many persons who know Vedic knowledge, they do not act according to the Vedic instructions. And out of many such persons, there are very few persons who act accordingly to the Vedic instruction. And those who act, they are attached to karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra, fruitive activities. Just like perform yajñas and be elevated to the heavenly planets. These are called karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra. Out of many thousands of these persons who are attached to karma-kāṇḍīya chapter of Vedas, one, somebody may be jñānī. Jñānī means "one who knows, one who is in perfect knowledge." Not perfect knowledge, but searching after knowledge, jñānī. And out of many thousands of jñānīs, one is mukta. Mukta means liberated, liberated from material body. And out of many thousands of muktas, there is very difficult to find out a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you analyze, it is very difficult to find out a person who is really... (In) the Bhagavad*-gītā also, the Lord says,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



"Out of many millions of men," manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, kaścid vetti..., kaścid yatati siddhaye. Generally, people are busy how to earn money, how to get money and satisfy senses. That's all. That is their end of life. Get money. Somehow or other, get money and expend for sense gratification. In America I have heard that people, they have got money. They spend fifty thousand dollars weekly for seeing naked dance. You see? So money is being misused in this way. Everyone wants sense gratification. And for sense gratification, they want money. And they are earning money somehow or other and applying that in sense gratification. But the result is confusion and frustration. That's all. Result is confusion and frustration. Therefore this is not new thing.



*Now, in this age, Kali*-yuga, this system of civilization is very much prominent. But in the material world, that is going on time, from time immemorial. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva is advising His sons, "My dear sons," ayaṁ deha. Na ayaṁ deha. "This body, this human form of body," deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke, "those who have taken, accepted this material body in this human society," nṛloke, kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate... Sense gratification is needed because we have got this body. So that is not denied. But He says that kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate: "For sense gratification, there is no need of working very hard." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This kind of labor, hard labor, day and night, and get some money, and then apply it for sense gratification, kaṣṭān kāmān... Kāma means sense gratification. So this is not very good. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Human form of life is not meant for this purpose. This type of working hard day and night to find out the necessities of life, that is the business of the hog. Hog. Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means "the animal who eats stool." That means hog. Or the animal who has no discrimination of eating. He's called hog. The hogs have no discrimination. He'll eat anything, up to the stool. So if you say that "We have to accept food," well, even stool is also food for a certain type of animals. And by eating that stool, it becomes very much fatty. And their sense power is so strong that daily, at least one dozen times, they are having sexual intercourse. And there is no discrimination whether it is mother or sister or any daughter. It doesn't matter. You'll find in hog's life, they have no discrimination.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva is warning, "My dear boys, this life, this human form of life, is not meant for gratifying the senses like the hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Then what it is mean? What for? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā. This life is meant for tapasya, austerity. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā. Why? Why we should accept austerity, penance? So He says that tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. Sattvam. Your existence. You are existing. Now your existence is not pure because we, all living entities, we are eternal soul, spirit soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The soul is never annihilated or destroyed after the annihilation of this body. Now, throughout the whole world we are traveling. There is not a single institution, neither any department of knowledge in the university, to understand that "After destruction of this body I am not destroyed. I exist." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Hanyamāne śarīre. After destruction of the body, the soul is not destroyed. Ajo nityaḥ śāśvato yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Aja. The soul never takes birth; the body changes. Just like I am soul, you are soul; we have changed so many bodies. I had a body, a small baby's body. That body is no longer existing. Everyone has seen... Where is that body? I possessed a small baby's body. Where is that body? That is gone. Then I possessed a boy's body. That body is also gone. Then I possessed a young man's body; *that is also gone. Now I am possessing one old man's body, seventy*-six years old. But I understand that I had a small body like this. I had a body like a boy, like a child, then young man. Therefore the conclusion should be that I, as I have passed so many bodies, similarly, when I shall pass this body, I shall exist. This is conclusion.

*Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Dhīra, one who is cool*-headed. Not a passionate(?), crazy fellow, but cool-headed. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. He can understand that as one passes through different bodies, baby's to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, then old age, similarly, this body, when it will be no more existing, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], the body may be destroyed, but the soul will continue to exist. This is the Vedic principle of knowledge. This is called spiritual knowledge. Spiritual knowledge does not mean anything else. To understand the spiritual, constitutional position of the living entity, that is called spiritual. And at the present moment, by constitution, my position is that I never die or I never take birth. But because I have accepted this material body, therefore I have to change. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. Just like we change our garments. I am putting on this garment. When it is old or not usable, I give it up. I accept another coat or shirt. Similarly, we have got coat and shirt over our position as soul. The shirt is the subtle body: mind, intelligence, and ego. And the gross coat is made of five elements: earth, water, fire, air, sky. In these two coverings, I, the soul, I am existing.



But Ṛṣabhadeva says that tapo divyaṁ putrakā [SB 5.5.1], "My dear boys, in order to get out of this diseased condition of life, kindly accept austerity." Just like when a man is diseased, the doctor says that "You cannot accept this. You cannot eat like this. You cannot go like this." So many "don'ts." Similarly, tapasya means "Don't. You do not do this." Because as living entity with animal propensities, the animal cannot accept "don'ts." If a tiger is requested, "My dear Mr. Tiger, don't eat meat," (laughter) he cannot accept it because it is animal. But if a human being is trained up in these "do's" and "don'ts," he can accept. That is human life. And when, in spite of his difficulty, he has..., he accepts something by the order of the śāstra, by the order of the guru, that is called tapasya. Just like we are instructing our students, "My dear boys, do not have illicit sex life; do not eat meat, fish, eggs; do not indulge in intoxication, up to drinking tea and smoking; *and do not indulge in gambling." Of course, it is very difficult, especially in the Western countries. Not now, some, about thirty years ago, in this city of London, one of my Godbrothers came to preach, and he met Lord Zetland. So Lord Zetland asked this Swamiji whether he can be turned into a brāhmaṇa. The Swamiji replied, "Yes, you can become a brāhmaṇa." "How?" "Now, you have to give up these four things: no illicit sex life, no meat*-eating, fish-eating, no gambling, no intoxication." He said, "It is impossible." He replied, "Impossible." So actually, in the Western countries, these things are ordinary things, so they do not take it as any bad thing or any sinful, but according to Vedic śāstra, these four principles are the basic principles or the four pillars of sinful life. Striya-sūnā-pāna-dyūta yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā [SB 1.17.38].

*So the real purpose of life, as it is advised by Ṛṣabhadeva: tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. "My dear boys, just accept austerity and penances for transcendental realization," divyam. Divyam means the platform where God can be understood. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. If we can understand God on the transcendental platform, not in this material platform by imagination or speculation*-that is not God. One has to understand God on the transcendental platform, śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. On the vasudeva platform we can understand Vāsudeva. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. So here it is advised: tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. The whole business is... Everyone is hankering after happiness. That's a fact. The karmīs, the ordinary workers, fruitive workers... Just like big, big city, they are whole day and night the motorcars going this way and that way, this way and that way... "Whoosh, woosh, woosh, woosh, woosh, woosh, woosh..." Why? For finding out, "Where is happiness? Where is happiness? Where is happiness?" Happiness. But happiness we are not receiving because in this contaminated world happiness is not possible; therefore we have to get out of this body, material body. Then there will be happiness.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. What is real happiness, that will be realized when you are on the transcendental sense gratification. At the present moment we are on the material sense gratification. So material sense gratification will not give us real happiness. Everyone is trying to get happiness; so therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Your exis... First of all, purify your existence; *then talk of happiness. Happiness, if you want to enter happiness with this covered material covering, you'll never find happiness. And that is actually experience of everyone. If you say that "Yes, I am enjoying this. I am enjoying this life very nicely. I don't require to give up this material body," no. It is foolishness. You are not enjoying. You may think so, but the real problem is there. What is that? Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You may enjoy very nicely because you are Englishman or American, you have got money, but what about the question of death? Do you enjoy death? If a body is... Of course, one who is frustrated, one who wants to commit suicide, that is a different thing. For a sane man, does he enjoy birth, death, old age and disease? Therefore Bhagavad-gītā points out that you may feel very happy with your so-called material senses, but you should see to the real problem of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: birth, death, old age and disease.

*So therefore, actual happiness is there when we surpass this process of repetition of birth and death, old age and disease. Because we are spirit soul. As God is spirit soul, we are also spirit soul. About God it is stated that advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. Purāṇa-puruṣa means the oldest living entity, but still, He's nava-yauvana, young. Just like Kṛṣṇa. You have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa. You'll find Him always a young boy, from sixteen to twenty years old. You have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. We have got the picture, Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa had at that time great-grandsons, but you see His picture just like a boy, young boy, very nice. So the spirit is never old. Never old. Always young. You'll find, those who are studying the Vedic literatures, that in the Vaikuṇṭhalokas the inhabitants are always young, exactly like God. God is always young, fifteen to twenty years old, just like boy. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that "You are wanting happiness..." And happiness... Death does not mean happiness, disease does not mean happiness, birth does not mean happiness, old age does not mean happiness. So when you are happy? If you are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease, then where is your happiness? That is called illusion, māyā. Actual happiness is not there. Therefore Vedic literature informs: ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. The yogis, they enjoy happiness unlimitedly. There is no end. Here in this material world you may enjoy anything, but it will have its end after a few minutes. That's all. You cannot enjoy perpetually. That is not possible. Therefore... But we are hankering after perpetual happiness, continued happiness. So Ṛṣabhadeva advised, "My dear boys, you take to austerity." Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. "After you are purified, then brahma-saukhyam anantam, then you get unlimited happiness."

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the whole human society the direction how he can enjoy unlimitedly. Yena śuddhyet sattvam. Ramante yoginaḥ anante. Really, those who are yogis, they enjoy. These Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, people, they are also yogis, bhakti*-yogīs. They are the best of the yogis. As we see in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the chapter in which Sāṅkhya yoga has been explained, the conclusion is, yoginām api sarveṣām: [Bg. 6.47] "Of all the yogis..." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā: "One who is thinking within himself about Me, Kṛṣṇa," mad-gaten... śraddhāvān, "with faith and love," bhajate mām, "engaged in My devotional service," sa me yuktatamo mataḥ, "he is the first-class yogi. He is the first-class yogi." So we are preaching in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, "Everyone should become a first-class yogi. And when one becomes a first-class yogi, perfect yogi, then ramante yoginaḥ anante, then they enjoy eternal, blissful life of knowledge. Ramante yoginaḥ satyānande, that is real happiness, satyānande. In this material world it is mithyānande. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagan mithyā. The material world, wherein you are trying to find out happiness, that is false, illusion. If you want real happiness, that is in the spiritual world. That is the verdict of Vedas. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. Don't try to be happy in this darkness. But real happiness is in the light, jyotir gama. Light. The spiritual world is light. The material world is dark. It is... Because this material world is dark, therefore we require sunlight, moonlight, electricity and so many things. In the spiritual world there is no need of this sunlight, moonlight or electricity. Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is no need of sun, moon, or electricity. These are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So therefore, this human form of life, as it is advised by Ṛṣabhadeva, is not meant for unnecessary sense gratification. This is not meant for. This is meant for the hogs and dogs, not for the human beings. This is division of life. The human life is to make a solution of all the problems of life. The real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. All other problems, they are secondary. So you can conquer over this birth and death and old age and disease. There is possibility. Here is a chance of human form of life. Here you take a chance. Don't lose it, don't spoil it like hogs and dogs. That is the propaganda of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't take it that it is a type of sectarian religion. No. It is a culture. It is meant for every human being. Therefore we are trying to propagate this movement all over the world, without any consideration of caste, creed and nation. Because we don't see, "This is Englishman, this is European, this is American." No. We have no such vision. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. One who is really learned, he sees everyone on the equal level: soul, spirit soul.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*One who is paṇḍita, he'll see equally a learned brāhmaṇa and a dog. Why? Because he knows, "Here is a brāhmaṇa and here is a dog. But a dog, by his karma, by his work, he has accepted this dog's body, and the brāhmaṇa has accepted by his karma the brāhmaṇa's body. The king has accepted a king's body. But these are..." Just like we are sitting here. We are not studying what kind of dress you have got. Now, you are also not studying what kind of dress I have got. We are concerned with philosophy, with knowledge. Similarly, we are not concerned whether you are American or Englishman or African or this or that, a cat or dog. We want to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because everyone is conscious. So that consciousness has to be changed. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become clear. Clear. First that clearing. So sarva-upādhi-vinirmuktam, upādhi. We have got these designations, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Hindu." These are all designations. So we have to become free from these designations, come to the spiritual platform. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmalam means without any... Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When you come to that purest form of spirit soul, you don't think that your indriyas, or senses, are lost. No. Senses are there. At that time, if you enjoy your senses in cooperation with the Supreme, that is called bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So it is not very difficult to become free from all designations. It is not very difficult. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us very simple method, supported by Vedic injunction. What is that? Paraṁ vijayate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam.

*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



If you kindly take this simple process, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, then you'll be purified gradually. You go on chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra; *then ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam, the dirty things which are there within our heart, it will be cleaned. And as soon as we are clean... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Just like if you want to see your face, how nice is your face, if you take a mirror and if it is covered with dirt, you cannot see. You just cleanse the dust covering on the mirror and you can see your beautiful face. Therefore it is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Darpaṇa means mirror. So it requires little cleansing. And that cleansing process is so simple, that simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it will be clean. Then you will understand what is your real position, what, how beautiful is your face. That is called self-realization, ātma-jñāna. Ātma-jñāna.



*So unless one will come to the platform of self*-realization, we are in the trouble, so long we are not self-realized. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Without self-realization, whatever we are acting, we are piling up the stones and woods and iron in such skyscraper building. So we may do that, but it is our defeat. It is not conquering; *it is defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. If we don't inquire about ourself, "What I am? Why I am put into this miserable condition of life, birth, death, old age, and there are so many other things...?" Unless you come to question why, your human life is not perfect.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is universal. It is meant for everyone, and the process is very simple. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. But if you think that "I am not satisfied by..., for accepting this simple process. I must go through science, philosophy, logic," yes, we have got dozens of books, four hundred pages each, at least. We have got twelve books. You can read them. Go through science, philosophy, logic, sociology, politics, anything. You will understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. [break]

Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda will accept some questions now. If anything you want to understand more clearly, just put up a hand and Śrīla Prabhupāda will answer these questions.



Haṁsadūta: Yes.



Indian Guest: Swamiji, do you believe in reincarnation?



Prabhupāda: I have already explained. Just like you are being incarnated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthhood body, this is reincarnation. There is no question of believing. It is a fact. If you do not know it, it is ignorance. But it is a fact.



English boy: I'm Christian, and lots of what you just said is completely disputed in the Bible. I'd like you to tell me, please, and tell the other people here about how the word "God," as defined in the Holy Bible, of which I, as a personal Christian, hold very sacred... I have witnessed here today more or less blasphemy against God, and you claim to come from God and... Or your disciples claim you come from God. And I'd like you to sort of classify your distinction of God and my distinction of God, please.



Revatīnandana:



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



So my spiritual master has requested that I answer this question. We are functioning in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on the basis of the Vedic literature, Vedic scriptures. Amongst these Vedic scriptures, we consider the Bible to be one. Lord Jesus Christ is teaching in the Bible that "You love first God with your whole heart and soul, and then you love your neighbor as yourself." My spiritual master is teaching that we are all part and parcel of God, and as part and parcel of God, our business is to render loving service to the Supreme Lord. You say that you are living love of God. But God says, then you will love your neighbor as yourself.



English boy: I do that.



Revatīnandana: If you love your neighbor as yourself, then why this civilization, which claims to be Christian, is slaughtering so many animals, and why they are constantly slaughtering each other in wars, in the streets? Killing, killing, killing. Jesus says you will not kill: "Thou shalt not kill," and you are killing, killing the animals, killing each other. This civilization is of dogs and cats fighting and killing, and my spiritual master is giving love of God, he is giving love of God to the world. And you can develop so simply. You just hallow the name of the Lord. Jesus says, "Hallowed be thy name, my Father." And we are hallowing the name of the Lord. We don't even demand you say "Kṛṣṇa." You can say "Jehovah." you can say "Yahweh." You can chant the names of God. You can purify your heart and develop love of God, and then you will stop killing and slaughtering each other.



That's enough. Now we'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause) (end)



750410QA.HYD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam

Questions & Answers

-

Hyderabad, April 10, 19



*Prabhupāda: It is already described in the Bhagavad*-gītā that kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. There are different forms of life, different species of life. What is the reason of these different gradations? A dog's life and a man's life is different. How it has so become? What is the scientist's reply? I don't think the scientists can reply this. Or they can reply, "Evolutionary process." How the evolutionary process is taking place? So that answer is also given in the Bhagavad-gītā,



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*That... The developed human life is obtained by karma. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1].



*We are working under the control of material nature, and we are infecting, contaminating different modes of material nature. Just like a person who has contaminated the smallpox infection, he must suffer from smallpox. That is medical science. Similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. There are three material modes of nature: goodness, passion, and ignorance. So if you associate with goodness, then your next body becomes manifest in the modes of goodness, just like highly intelligent class of men or the brāhmaṇa. If you infect the modes of passion, then you become passionate; you get passionate body. And ignorance also.

*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



Every reply is there. As we are associating or contaminating different modes of material nature, we are manufacturing or giving chance to get a certain type of body, exactly if I infect the smallpox disease, I must suffer from it. This is the law of nature.



*So when, after associating with the modes of goodness for many, many years*-or not many, many years but many, many lives-then one can become very intelligent brāhmaṇa.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*After many, many births of this kind of contaminated diseases and births and body, when by culture of knowledge, by austerities, by penances, by brahminical culture, one becomes very, very learned and wise, at that time he can understand what is God*-not before that. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Not the rascals and the fools can understand what is God. Only the jñānavān.



So as you are trying to become jñānavān for higher status of life, similarly, if you become jñānavān to understand God, then God consciousness will come. Not so easily.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



So not only ordinary human being. What they can understand about God? Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. What is the perfection of life? One must know. The perfection of life is to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is perfection of life, when one can understand.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So after becoming Brahman realized soul, when he is fully liberated from material contamination*-goodness passion or ignorance-prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, he has no material hankering, neither he laments for any material loss. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, when he visions all living entities as spirit soul, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54], at that time he is eligible to understand what is bhakti. And bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. If you become bhakta, if you have got the opportunity to come to that platform, then you can understand God. Otherwise, God is not so easy to understand. (break-questions and answers)



*Prabhupāda: What is your duty? That is the first thing. Do you know what is your duty? You manufacture your duty, but you do not know what is your duty. Duty is: sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is your duty. Anything you manufacture duty, that is not duty; That is cheating. (applause) First of all, you learn what is your duty; then talk of duty. In your office if you go, if you say, "Anything I do, it is my duty," no. You must know the particular work you are advised to act by the superintendent or the director, not that you can manufacture your duty. If you execute that duty, then you are dutiful. Otherwise, you are simply creating trouble. Just like a monkey. They create their duty, and wherever he goes, "Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out!" The monkey's duty is no duty. A man must know what is duty, and he should execute. That is duty.



Indian man (1): As you have explained, Lord Kṛṣṇa forbade(?) Arjuna to do this duty.



*Prabhupāda: Well, first of all you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, what He says. Then, if you are dutiful, then you can say who is the other dutiful. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If you come to that stage of life, then you are dutiful. Otherwise, if you create your duties as monkey, that is not duty. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Indian man (2): (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: So, our endeavor should be not to be implicated by the material modes of nature. Never mind what is the percentage. This material world is always mixed up*-some goodness, some passion, some ignorance. Here you cannot possess the material quality in full, cent percent purity. No. That is not possible. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. One quality is overlapping the other quality. Our business is how to become transcendental to all these qualities, not to be touched by any of the qualities of material nature. That is our business. That should be our aim. Nirguṇa. That is called nirguṇa, no more contaminated by the material qualities. That is called nirguṇa.



*And that is very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti*-yogena sevate. If one accepts this bhakti-yoga process-



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*These are the different, nine items of bhakti*-yoga. If you take all of them or some of them or at least one of them, you become transcendental to all these material qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān [Bg. 14.26]. All these material qualities one can transcend and remain in the Brahman platform. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. This is the process. It is not that we shall possess this quality, certain percentage, that quality, certain percentage. No. Above all qualities. That should be the aim of life. Then we shall be in the Brahman platform or in the spiritual platform, and then our life will be successful. Otherwise, struggle for existence... Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. We take one type of body according to the contamination of material modes of nature. We suffer or enjoy, then again we die, again we accept another body. In this way it continues, and we remain entangled in this material world.



Indian man (2): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is said in the śāstra,



*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



*The Kṛṣṇa, His form, His name, His quality, His pastimes, His paraphernalia cannot be experienced by these material senses. Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. He is beyond the indriyas. But if one is engaged in devotional service, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. That devotional service begins from jihvā, tongue. This tongue means can be utilized in devotional service in two ways, namely by chanting the holy name of God and by tasting prasādam. If first of all one engages his jihvā, means tongue, in devotional service by chanting the holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and tasting only kṛṣṇa-prasādam, not anything else, then Kṛṣṇa, being pleased by his devotional service, He manifests Himself, reveals Himself. That revelation is experienced, very highly advanced devotee.



*So for advanced devotee everything is possible, as described by this gentleman. But that is not for everyone. That is not a common thing. Exceptional. For the common person, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised and as He has practically shown in His life, that is devotional service in separation: "Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda*-viraheṇa me. "I am seeing everything vacant because I cannot see Kṛṣṇa." The same thing was followed by the Gosvāmīs. He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ: "Where you are? O Rādhārāṇī, O Kṛṣṇa, O the gopīs, where you are?" He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ śrī-govardhana-kalpa-pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ. Govardhana-kalpa-pādapa-tale: "Either on the valley of the Govardhana Hill or on the bank of the Ganges. Where you are, all?" Seeking. Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. One should be mad after seeking Kṛṣṇa-"Where You are? Where You are?" Not that "I have seen." That is not bhajana. Bhajana means how to become mad after Kṛṣṇa. One who has once heard the tinkling sound of His anklebell, He'll be mad after Him-"Where You are? Where You are? Where You are?" Not that hearing and becoming engaged in the family affairs. No. That is not possible. One who has seen, one who has heard, he'll become mad-no more interest in this material affairs. That is the sign. We can say. Of course, if you are experienced devotee... But so far we see of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His immediate successors, Gosvāmīs, they are mad after Kṛṣṇa. They never said that "We have seen Kṛṣṇa." This is called bhajana by separation, vipralambha-sevā.

*So if we become mad after Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection, not that "We have seen Kṛṣṇa." We may see, but so far the Gosvāmīs are concerned, they are simply seeking. Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja*-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. Vihvalau means mad-"Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" That is self-realization.

Thank you very much. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



751020SB.JOH

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

-

Johannesburg, October 20, 19



Prabhupāda:



śrī-ṛṣabha uvāca

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*This is a verse, verse number one, Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter, of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. We are publishing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, twelve cantos in sixty volumes, and this is the latest volume, just received today. Therefore I am taking advantage of this volume and reciting one verse. This is in connection with Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction to His sons. Ṛṣabhadeva was a king, and He had one hundred sons. Of all of them, the eldest was Mahārāja Bharata, under whose name India is called Bhāratavarṣa since the time of Mahārāja Bharata. So the instruction was being discussed amongst the royal family members. Formerly all Vedic instructions were discussed amongst the very topmost class of men. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21]. That is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. If the higher level class of men accepts something as truth, then the ordinary, common man follows that.



*So the problem of life is discussed here by Ṛṣabhadeva. He says, "My dear boys," nāyaṁ deha deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Ayam. Ayam means "this," this body, this human form of body. It is also a body, and the dog's body is also a body, material body. It is also made of blood and bone and urine and stool and so many other things. The dog's body is also made the same ingredients. But what is the difference between dog's body and this human body? He advises, ayam deha: "This human form of body..." Deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. And where this body is obtained? It is obtained in the human society. This intelligent brain and good form of body, it is to be found in the human society. In the human society you will find from this body, big, big professors, big, big philosophers, scientists, mathematicians and..., they are coming, not from the dog society. That is not possible. Therefore it should be properly utilized. Nāyam deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means in human society. So how it should be utilized? He says, kaṣṭān kāmān arhate, arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. Kaṣṭān. Kaṣṭān means very, very hard labor, kaṣṭān. And kāmān means necessities of life we require. The necessities of this body, that is required. We want to eat something, we must have a shelter to live, Bhāgavata.-bhaya, and we must defend from the enemies or from the attack of other living beings. Kaṣṭān kāmān. So we require all these things, but not very hard labor, working day and night. That is for the lower animal. Kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate viḍ bhujāṁ ye. As the animal is working very hard day and night for meeting their necessities of life, the human form of life is not meant for that purpose. This is the basic principle of instruction. Ayaṁ deha. This deha, this body, is meant for higher purposes, not for simply meeting the necessities of life. This is the basic principle of instruction. They have no other way. The cats and dogs and hogs, they are working day and night where to find out some stool and eat it, and as soon as the body is filled, then sense gratification, sex life This is going on in the lower class of animal life.

*So does it mean that human life also will be utilized only for this purpose? No. That is his advice. "This is not meant for wasting our time and living like the lower animals, cats and dogs and hogs." Then what it is meant for? He says, tapo divyaṁ: [SB 5.5.1] "My dear sons, this body is meant for tapo, austerity." Austerity. What is that austerity? Divyam, to realize God. That is the whole Vedic principle, that human body, human society should be trained intelligently in such a way that he can understand God. This is the goal of life. In the Vedānta*-sūtra... Those who are philosophically advanced, they might have studied the Vedānta-sūtra or Brahma-sūtra. So the first aphorism of the Brahma-sūtra is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now this human form of life is there..." We have got it by the material nature's grace. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, transmigration or evolution, as you say.

*jalajā nava*-lakṣāni

*sthāvarā lakṣa*-viṁśati

*kṛmayo rudra*-saṅkhyakāḥ

*pakṣiṇāṁ daśa*-lakṣaṇam



In this way there are aquatics, 900,000 different forms of life. And then, from aquatics to plants and trees, two million forms. Then insects, different insects, eleven..., 1,100,00. Then birds, ten..., one million different forms. Then beasts, three million different forms. In this way there are eight hundred millions. Hm? Eight?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: 8,400,000.



*Prabhupāda: Eight millions. And human being, 400,000 species form, there are. So out of that, the civilized man, the best form of human body, that is meant for this purpose, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1], that: "My dear boys, you should not waste your time simply for finding out the necessities of this body and work very hard day and night and forget your own business." What is that own business? Self*-realization, "What I am." This is called own business. "Am I this body or something else?" We can understand it that "I am not this body," because as soon as I, you, leave this body, the spirit soul, it is nothing but lump of matter. That we can understand. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson, to understand that "I am not this body." If we live under the conception that "I am this body," then, the śāstra, Vedic literatures, condemns, "Then you are no better than the cats and dogs, because they also live under the bodily concept of life." And if you do not understand that you are not this body, you are spirit soul and you are changing different forms of body for realization of the higher, the highest goal of life... That you should understand. That is called tapasya.



So if we do not become very sober... Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Then, to become sober, dhīra... Dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dhīra means sober. If we remain restless like animals, then we cannot achieve the goal of our life. We do not know how the laws of nature is working. We can experience how the laws of nature is working in our present life. Present life... Just like a young man, if he thinks that "I shall not become old man. I shall remain young man," will the nature's law allow it? No. You must become old man. There is no question of saying that "I don't want to become old man." So, no, nature's law will not allow you. You must become old man and suffer the old age's disadvantages. That you must. Similarly, if the old man says, "Never mind. I have become old man. I will not die," no. Nature's law will not allow. He must die. Similarly, after death, if you think foolishly that there is no more life, that is also wrong. Nature's law is that you must accept another body. This is nature's law. So we are dependent on nature's law. However foolishly we declare that "We are independent. We don't care for anything," that will not stay. We are under the clutches of material nature's law. In this law, by evolutionary process we have come to this human form of life, and if we don't utilize it properly, then we are missing the chance.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is reminding the whole human society that "Don't lose this chance of getting a human body." You must properly utilize it. And how it is to be utilized? That is stated here by Ṛṣabhadeva: tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. Sattvam, our existence, is now polluted. Therefore we are getting this material body and changing this material body. And as soon as we get a material body, then our miserable condition begins. In this material body nobody can say that there is no miserable condition. It is full of miserable condition. There are three kinds of miserable conditions: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Adhyātmika means pertaining to the body and pertaining to the mind. There are so many miseries. Otherwise... The other day Swami Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa was telling that in this country there is maximum number of suicide. Is it not? So, why one commits suicide unless he feels bodily position very uncomfortable, mental condition very disturbing? So this is called adhyātmika, pertaining to the body and mind. There are many troubles. Every one of us, we have got that experience, that there are troubles. I may be very rich, I may have immense wealth, but if my body and mind is not in order, I am in trouble. So simply material opulence, material wealth will not satisfy us. We require bodily comforts. And if I have got millions of dollars and if I am diseased man, I cannot enjoy; *I cannot be in happiness. So these are one type of miserable condition. Similarly, there are other types of miserable condition as adhibhautika. I do not wish to create any misunderstanding with a friend, but automatically there is some misunderstanding between friends, neighbors, nation, man to man, business friend. There are troubles. So this is called... And not only... If not human being, human being, but other, lower animals. Just like there are insects, there are cockroaches, there are so many other living bodies*-they are giving us trouble. That is called adhibhautika. And adhidaivika. Adhidaivika is nature's disturbance.

So there are three kinds of miserable condition in this material world, and either of them or all of them, they are always troubling us. This is our position. We have to understand that. We are suffering. That everyone knows. But by illusion we think that "This is not suffering. This is natural." No. It is not natural. Just like if you have got fever, it is disease. Don't think that it is natural. Why you should be suffering from all these troubles? That is not natural; *that is unnatural. Because we are part and parcel of God, we living entities, we should be as happy as God is. That is our position. Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. God is described īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac cid ānanda vigrahaḥ. Sat, cit, ānanda [Bs. 5.1]. This is three different features of God's body. What is that? Sat. Sat means eternal. Sat. And cit. Cit means knowledge, full of knowledge. And ānanda means full of bliss. That is ānanda. So this is God's body. And we are part and parcel of God. Just like gold and particle of gold. It may be very small particle, but one shall say it is gold. It is not anything else. Similarly, in quality we are same as God. Now we have got this body which is not eternal. God's body is eternal and my, this body is not eternal. And sat, cit... God is full of knowledge, omniscient, but my body is full of ignorance. Why these universities are there? Because we do not know what it what. Therefore we are being educated. So that means this body is not full of knowledge. It is full of ignorance. So And again, God's body is blissful, and our body is miserable.

*So the aim should be how again we come to the original position like God or the same type of body*-blissful, full of knowledge and eternal. That is the aim of human life. Therefore it is said, tapo divyam: [SB 5.5.1] "My dear son, don't become like cats and dogs and work hard for the bodily necessities of life. This human form of life is meant for austerity." "Why austerity? Let us enjoy." "No." Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet: "If you accept the path of austerity, then your existence will be purified." Now, at the present moment, the existence is not purified; *therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease. This is not our business. But because we have got this material body, the nature's law forces to accept all these things*-birth, death, old age and disease. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. We are trying to be happy fighting with unhappiness, but we do not know our real unhappiness are that we have to die, we have to take birth again, we have to become diseased and we have to accept old age. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is intelligence, that "I am trying to solve all the problems of life by advancement of civilization, education, scientific knowledge and so many things. That's all right. But what is the solution of my, these four principle of miserable condition: birth, death, old age and disease?" And because we cannot make any solution, we set aside these four problems. We go on with the temporary problems and become busy to solve it, and in this way we waste our, this valuable human form of life like the cats and dogs. This is the instruction.

*So we should not do that. We must be sober, and we must... And it is not very difficult. The knowledge is there in the Vedic literature. And it is... Everyone can accept it. It is not a sectarian, so*-called religious principle. It is scientific. Every human being should understand his position. Every human being should not waste his valuable time. So therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a great devotee and a great Vaiṣṇava ācārya, he has sung a nice song, that hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My dear Lord, I got this chance of human form of body. Unfortunately I have wasted my time without any self-realization." Hari hari biphale, janama goṅāinu. Manuṣya janama pāiyā, rādhā kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā: "I got this very valuable form of life, human form of life, but instead of understanding what is God, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu, "knowingly I have drunk poison." This is the opportunity to understand God and make solution of all different types of births and deaths and transmigration from one body to another.

*And as soon as I get a material body, immediately there are so many miserable condition. But I am... As spirit soul, part and parcel of God, I have nothing to do with all these things, but I have been forced to be working with these problems of life. This is human intelligence. Therefore he requires to live a saintly life. It is not possible, of course, that everyone should become saintly. That is not possible. Therefore in the Vedic civilization it is prescribed, varṇāśrama*-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇa means four classification of the society, and āśrama means four division of spiritual life. The society, it is not meant for any particular nation or particular community. It is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The human society should be divided into four groups. What is that? The first-class men. There are first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men. We have got our experience. Not that everyone is equally intelligent. No. There is difference of classification or intelligence or genuineness. There are so many things, division. So here also you have got division, classification. That is natural.

*So first*-class, the first-class men, means they should be trained as brāhmaṇa, at least one class of men. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. In order to realize the highest goal of life there must be division in the society and there must be division in spiritual life. The social life is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Brāhmaṇa means the most intelligent class of men, one who can understand God. That is brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. First-class man means not first-class dress. First-class man means he has got full knowledge: jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Full knowledge. He knows what is God. That is first-class man. So the second-class men means the kṣatriyas, the administrators, the administrative class of men, because government men, they must be very sober to rule over the citizens. There are varieties of men, and, to regulate them so that the state may go on very peacefully, so this is dependent on the kṣatriyas. And they must be prepared to fight to the enemies. Everything is described in the śāstra, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tejo śauryaṁ yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. The administrator should be so brave that whenever there is war they must first of all come forward to fight so that soldiers and others may follow him. So they are second-class men, and they should be instructed by the first-class men. Then their activities will be nice.

*Brāhmaṇa-kṣatriya-vaiśya. Vaiśya means the productive class of men. Their business is how to produce food for all the society and give protection to the cows. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg 18.44]. There must be sufficient milk in the human society. If you drink more milk and milk products, then your brain will be very sharp. You will understand things very nicely, corectly. Therefore milk is very important. In the Vedic śāstra cow protection is recommended. Why? Because milk is very, very important thing. Milk is... What about the meat-eaters? If there are meat-eaters, they can eat other animals, but especially they should not eat the cow. They should give them protection. So because the vaiśyas, the first class, second class, third class, they are meant for producing food for the society... So milk is very important. Therefore it is recommended, kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyam. And if there is excess, they can trade. And this is the first class, second class, third class. And those who cannot act as first-class men or as second-class men or third-class men-that means fourth-class men*-they are called laborer or worker class of men.

So it is not that because one person is belonging to the worker class and another person is becoming the first class, there is differentiation. No. Everyone is important. Just like in this body the head is very important. That is a fact. If the head is cut off, then whole body is finished. But that does not mean that head is simply required without leg. Leg is also required; the hand is also required; *the belly is also required. Similarly, the first-class man, the second-class man, the third-class man and the fourth-class man, all of them are equal provided they are adjusted for the higher aim of life, the higher aim of life*-the brain. The brain means... First-class brain means to realize self, to understand God, and do accordingly. This is required. This is called varṇāśrama-dharma. So unless one takes to the varṇāśrama-dharma as they are prescribed, it is not human society. It is cats' and dogs' society, and you cannot be happy, however you may adjust, in a society who is filled up with cats and dogs. That is not possible.

*So this Vedic instruction, it is not meant for any particular person, any community or any country. It is meant for everyone. So we should take advantage. We are therefore publishing in English so many books so that people may understand. English language is spoken practically all over the world, and we are selling also. These books are being appreciated by the professors in university and highly learned circles, and common men also. So I am lecturing for, say, half an hour or forty-five minutes*-it is not possible to explain all the Vedic intelligence-but we are distributing these books. I request you to read all these books as far as possible and take advantage of do not spoil your life simply for meeting the necessities of this body very hardly like cats and dogs. It is not required. The real business is to realize your self." That is Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. For which And actually we do not require very much to work for meeting the necessities of life, because from the śāstras we can understand that our necessities of life are already there. They are. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. The śāstra says that "Don't bother yourself about the necessities of life. This is already there, settled. You will get it. Depend on the supplier of the necessities of life. The supplier of necessities, life, is God." That is the description in the Vedic literature. Therefore we see practically that Christians, they go to church and they request God, "O God, father, give us our daily bread." Actually it is supplied by Him. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and God is the creator of them, and He is supplying all the necessities of them. We human being, we have got different enterprises, but what the enterprises have got the elephant in Africa? There are millions of elephants. Who is feeding them? And the ant also. There are trillions and millions of ant in your room. Who is feeding them? So we do not believe in God. That is our defect. Otherwise, if God is providing food for the lower animals, why not for us if we become God conscious?

*So there is no reason. We shall get. But we have been habituated for economic development. Let us do it. It doesn't matter. But don't forget God. That is wanted. If you forget God, then you are no better than dog. This is the movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that we are reminding everyone that "Don't remain like lower animals. You have got this opportunity of human life. You go, accept little austerity." So what we are prescribing, austerity? Just like these European, American boys. They are under training. Our first business is to take declaration that the devotee will not indulge in illicit sex life, not meat*-eating, no intoxication and no gambling. This is austerity. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy. It is not very difficult. Just like these boys, girls, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they are undergoing the austerity. So they have not died. Not they are unhealthy. You can see. They are living, and they will live. But they have become purified. Tapo divyaṁ yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. This is purifying our existence. Purifying existence means no more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. These are the information we get, that if we purify our existence, our existential position, then the result will be that... Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body. The cats and dogs also will give up, and I'll also give up. That's a fact. But the cats and dogs, they'll get another material body, but if you purify your existential position, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], you'll not to have, accept any more material body. You shall stay in your spiritual body. And when you stay in your spiritual body you become equal with God-sac-cid-ānanda: eternal, ānanda, blissful, and full of knowledge. That is the human form of life..., er, aim of human mission. Don't miss this. There is ample information. The practice is very easy. Anyone can do it.

So our only request is take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand it properly. It is not meant for any particular person, nation, or community. It is for every human being. So we request you to study this movement and take to it seriously. Then you will be all happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

*Yes. Creation means this material world. There are two worlds: material world and spiritual world. Spiritual world is eternal, and material world is created. We can experience. Anything material is created, it is maintained for some time, then it is annihilated. Nothing remains forever. So when... Creation means this material world, not the spiritual world. So when Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānāṁ [Bg 10.2], ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8], that means God is not within this material world, created being. He is the creator. So creator was there in the beginning, and then the created material world was in existence or is in existence. Therefore God is not one of these created things. He is beyond created. He is transcendental. If we accept God is also one of the created beings, that is our mistake. Because if God created this material world, He was existing before the creation. Therefore He is not one of the product of this creation. Therefore He is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. His body is eternal, full of bliss and full of knowledge. Creator means He must have full knowledge.

*How God creates this material world? That is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. This creator is well conversant directly and indirectly every details of the universe. Just like we are trying to study how this material world is going on, how the big, big planets are floating in the air. We cannot understand properly. There are so many scientists, but they do not understand what are these. There are innumerable universes. This is only one universe. So He must have full knowledge how He is maintaining this material world. Therefore He is called abhijña. He is not dull-headed. He has got full knowledge. That is God, omniscient. He has got full knowledge. We may not have because we are very tiny. A child may not have knowledge, but the father knows everything. Similarly, He is the supreme father. He knows everything. He has got full knowledge. Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu. There are things, indirect and direct. In both ways He is abhijña; He is well aware, everything. Then the next question is svarāṭ. Svarāṭ. Because we are thinking in our own way of life, that "If God has got so much knowledge, wherefrom He got it?" Because we have got experience that whenever we require knowledge we go to a superior person and take knowledge from him-"Then wherefrom God has got so much knowledge?" Therefore the answer is svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means He is fully independent. He is not dependent for knowledge to anyone else. So these things are there. We have to study very nicely.

*So your question about the creation, maintenance and annihilation... It is being done by the Supreme Lord. The material world is... Our body is also like that. It is created at a certain date, it exists for a certain time, and it is annihilated. This is being done by God. This is the law, nature. Nature means an instrument in the hands of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. This is the information. Don't think that material nature is working automatically. No. This is not possible. Behind this material nature, the big machine, there is the operator, God. That you should understand. [break] This is meditation. If you become sober and think of everything, that is meditation. Meditation means the subject matter must be very sober and you think over and find out the solution. That is meditation. (end)



751128SB.DEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

-

Delhi, November 28, 1975



Prabhupāda: What is that? Plain water bring.



śri-ṛṣabha uvāca

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*This is Fifth Chapter of the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the last contribution of Vyāsadeva. Śrīmad-bhāgavatam nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam [SB 1.1.3]. In the beginning, introduction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vyāsadeva giving the information that this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam. Nigama means Vedas. So he compared the Vedas as a tree where you can get many fruits. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is described as nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam [SB 1.1.3]. Kalpa-taru means desire tree. Desire tree, you can get any kind of fruit from that tree. In the material world there are many different types of trees, fruits, and flowers, but you can get one type of fruit or one type of flower from a particular type of tree. But there is another tree. That is in the spiritual world. That is called desire tree. Whatever you want from that tree you can get. Kalpa-taru. The spiritual world, description of the spiritual world is there in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29]. There the trees are kalpa-vṛkṣa, or nigama-kalpa-taru. Kalpa-taru or kalpa-vṛkṣa, the same thing.



*So Vedas means knowledge. So from the Vedas you can get all kinds of knowledge, both material and spiritual. Therefore it is called Veda, knowledge. So in that tree of knowledge the ripened fruit is Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is written by Vyāsadeva after writing four Vedas and the eighteen Purāṇas, the 108 Upaniṣads, then Vedānta-sūtra, and Mahābhārata, in which Bhagavad-gītā is set up. So after compiling all these Vedic literatures Vyāsadeva was not satisfied. Then his spiritual master advised him to describe the activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhagavāt. Bhagavān. The word Bhagavāt and... Bhāgavata is also in relationship with Bhagavāt or Bhagavān. So every śloka of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is full of spiritual information. If we take advantage of this great Vedic literature, then we become fully aware of Bhagavān and the devotees of Bhagavān. Therefore it is named Bhāgavatam. But this Bhāgavatam has to be studied from the very beginning and take the lessons from live bhāgavata. There are two kinds of Bhāgavatam-one, this grantha bhāgavatam, and the other is a person bhāgavatam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised that if you want to understand Bhāgavatam, then you must approach a person whose life is Bhāgavatam. He said, bhāgavata para-giya bhāgavata sthane, that "If we learn, listen, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the person bhāgavatam, then it is very easy to understand the spiritual knowledge given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."

*So here Ṛṣabhadeva... Ṛṣabhadeva was the father of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this land is called Bhāratavar\ sa. Bhāratavarṣa is derived from the name of Mahārāja Bhārata. So his father, Ṛṣabhadeva, He is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So He is giving instruction to His sons before retiring. In our Vedic culture there is compulsory retirement. There is compulsory retirement. That is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama*-dharma. What is going on... As we are going on in the name of Hindus, but Hindu is not mentioned in the Vedic literature. In the Vedic literature the principles or the institute followed by the inhabitants of Bhāratavarṣa is called varṇāśrama-dharma. That is real occupation.

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsam

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



*Whole Vedic civilization means: realize God. That is Vedic civilization. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. We are part and parcel of Viṣṇu, or the Supreme Lord. As it is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Jīva-bhūtaḥ, these living entities, not only human being but everyone, sarva yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4], in every form of life, the living entities are covered with the material dress. So Bhāgavata-dharma, or spiritual life, can be understood when one has understood his identification, what he is. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the first lesson given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna is to bring him to the spiritual platform. When Arjuna was lamenting on the body of his relatives on the other side, he was too much affected in the bodily conception of life: "How I shall fight with the other side? They are all my brothers, nephews, my teacher, my grandfather, and who has fought with such enemies in the history?" Everyone fights. There is fighting but not fighting with own men, even at the present moment, although there is sometimes civil war.



So Arjuna was too much affected by the bodily conception of life. That is the disease of this material world. We are thinking in terms of this body, but the śāstra says that,

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke

*svā*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*The bodily conception of life is animal life. If I think that "I am this body. I am Indian," and you think that you are this body, you are American or Englishman*-in so many ways we are designated-so, so long we think in these terms of knowledge, that "I am this body..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke. This is a bag of three elements: kapha, pitta, vayū. Or if we don't understand kapha pitta vāyu, we can understand that this body is made of flesh, bone, mucus. What you will find if we dissect this body? You'll find flesh, blood, bone, urine, stool, so many things, these material things. But if we think that "I am this body, a composition of blood, flesh, bone, and urine and stool," is that very good intelligence? No. Therefore śāstra says, "Anyone who is thinking this body combination of these elements"-combined together it is called tri-dhātuke-sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13], "such person is no better than the cows and the asses." Because I am not combination of this blood, bone, flesh, and urine and stool. I am not this combination. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul. This is really realization, knowledge.



*So unless one comes to that platform, that "I am beyond this blood, flesh, bone, urine, stool..." Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāḥ. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that "These material elements-earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, ego-these are eight separated energy of the Supreme Lord." And the Lord says, apareyam: "These elements are inferior energy." Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāḥ: "Beyond this, you try to understand, there is another nature, prakṛti." What is that another nature? Jīva-bhūto mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat: [Bg. 7.5] "That is jīva-bhūtaḥ." So mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "These living entities," Kṛṣṇa said, "they are My part and parcel." So we are now covered with these material energies although I am spiritual energy. This is our position. So this human form of life is a chance to understand that "I am not this body; I am spiritual energy," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This chance is given to the human form of life, not to the cats and dogs.

So the same principle is explained throughout all the Vedic literature in different way just to understand one's identity, that he is not this matter; *he is spirit soul. And when he understands, then the next stage will be: "Then what is my duty?" Because at the present moment we are acting on the bodily concept of life, how this body shall be kept in comfort, how the bodily relationship*-wife, children, family, community, society, nation... They are all expanded bodily concept of life. So in any conception of this material world, if we live, then you are living like cats and dogs. You are not living as human being. Otherwise where is the difference? When we see on the street two dogs are fighting, one dog is thinking, "This neighborhood is my jurisdiction, and why you have come from other jurisdiction in this neighborhood?" The fighting with the bodily concept of life. Or he is thinking, "This neighborhood belongs to me. Why you have come from other neighborhood here?" I say sometimes to my student, "This is immigration department. One dog is barking on other dog, 'Why you have come here?' " It is dog conception of life.

The spiritual conception of life is that everything belongs to God. That is the fact. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to God; *the land, water, sky. It is said, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ. This is expansion of the energy of God. So what is the use, claiming God's property as my property? That is mistaken. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape. This body is also God's property. Everything God's property because Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. This microphone, what it is? It is made of some earthly metal, wood, but the material belongs to God. I may have taken advantage of taking this material and manufactured something. That does not mean it is mine. If a carpenter makes a good furniture and the wood is supplied by somebody else and the carpenter is paid his wages, when the nice furniture is made, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the person who has supplied the ingredients? It is very commonsense question.

*So actually nothing belongs to us. We also do not belong independently. We are not independent. Kṛṣṇa says jīva*-bhūtaḥ, or mamaivāṁśo [Bg. 15.7]. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, so the finger has no separate existence. If this finger is cut off from my hand and it has a separate existence, it will fall down on the street, and it has no value. Others are trampling down; still nobody cares for it, although it is the same finger but cut off from this body. But so long this small finger is attached to this body it has value. If there is some disease or pain, I can spend thousands of dollars for curing it. And when it is cut off from my body it has no value. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, when we are forgetful or cut off It cannot be cut off, but still, when we forget God, then we have no value. The same example: When I ask my finger to come here and give me some itching sensation, then the finger is in normal condition. And if the finger cannot give me any service, that is useless. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, our business is to give service to God. That is our normal condition. And if we do not give service to the Lord, if we keep separately, then we have no value.

*This point is stressed here that nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Ṛṣabhādeva is advising to His sons, "My dear sons, this body specially," nāyaṁ deha nṛloke, "in the human society, it is not to be spoiled." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ..., kaṣṭān kāmān: "It is not be spoiled engaging it uselessly, very hard labor for satisfaction of the senses. Because this kind of business is there, viḍ-bhujām." Viḍ-bhujām means the stool-eater, hogs. The hogs are stool-eater, and they are working very hard day and night, and the business is kaṣṭān kāmān, to satisfy the senses, these two business: where to find out source of income, and eat anything without any discrimination. Just like the hog has no discrimination. It is prepared to eat even stool. So this kind of life, to work very hard and get foodstuff without any discrimination and then satisfy the senses without any discrimination of sex A hog, you will find, they have no discrimination of sex-mother, sister, or anyone. You will find. These are the natural instruction. So therefore, the example is given here, "My dear sons, don't live like hogs, toiling whole day and night and eating stool and without any sex discrimination you go on satisfying your senses." This is the first attack to the human civilization, that simply work very, very hard and then satisfy your senses and you take it as civilization.

*It is not civilization. If we think over these two lines, then we can find out that our modern civilization... It was formerly also the same, but not so extensively. At the present moment, in this age of Kali, the hog civilization is spread very widely. Therefore this instruction is very important. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Human life means very peaceful life, without any trouble. That is Vedic civilization. These books written by Vyāsadeva, he was writing these books, such exalted knowledge, in Hardwar, in a secluded place, very peacefully situated. And that knowledge was taken by the kṣatriyas, and they were distributing. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Vedic knowledge was first of all taken up by the kṣatriyas. Brāhmaṇas, they used to cultivate knowledge and they used to advise the kṣatriyas, rulers, and they took it and they distributed to the general mass of people for the elevation of the spiritual platform. This is civilization. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. This is creation of God, cātur-varṇyaṁ: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is called varṇa, and as spiritual cultivation, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our civilization, Vedic civilization, means varṇāśrama-dharma, following the four principles of varṇas and four principles of āśrama. The ultimate goal is God realization. That is the human civilization. If there is no God realization, simply working hard day and night for sense gratification, it is accepted as hog civilization, dog civilization. That is stated here: nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1].

*Then, if we give up this kind of civilization, then what is to be done? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet. The next engagement is tapasya, tapo. Tapasya means austerity, penances, voluntarily acceptance of something, some means of activity which may not be very palatable. But still, we have to do that. Just like a patient, if he is forbidden by the physician not to take a certain type of foodstuff, it may be pain... Just like typhoid fever. The doctor advises, "Don't take any solid food." But if we... I am accustomed to take paratha. So in typhoid to take paratha means death. Similarly, we have to follow the sastric injunction. If we really want to come out this material bondage... Material bondage means this body. Our real problem is this body. That we do not know. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. This will come, that "We have now become mad after sense gratification." Pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means prakṛṣṭa-rūpena mattaḥ. Mattaḥ means mad. And when this affix is there, prefix is there, that pra, pra means prakṛṣṭa-rūpena, sufficiently mad. So in this material world we have become sufficiently mad*-not only mad, but sufficiently mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And we are engaged in activities which are forbidden. Forbidden. Just like we are drinking. This is forbidden. We are eating meat. This is forbidden. We are having illicit sex. This is forbidden. We are having gambling. This is forbidden. This is called vikarma. But because we have become mad, we are, whole human civilization is meant for these four things: illicit sex, meat-eating, and intoxication, and gambling.

*So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. So we have become mad and we are engaged in these forbidden works. If we want to get out of these clutches of material bondage, then we must stop these forbidden activities, mad, the activities of a mad man. So if you go on like that, then we shall have to accept another material body. The problem is that we are suffering threefold miseries, every one of us. Maybe the degree different, but under being intoxicated, we do not take the sufferings as sufferings. That is another madness. But the sufferings are there. That is being pointed out by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You may be very perfect by arranging your material civilization to enjoy life but, you will not be allowed to live. That we do not see. There is no insurance. I am making very nice arrangement for my future enjoyment, having good bank balance, nice skyscraper building and other things, but where is the guarantee that you shall live and enjoy? That we do not see. Therefore we are madmen. If you are arranging something utopian for happiness, and if you understand that "I shall die tomorrow," then immediately my enthusiasm will decline. "Now, who is going to take so much trouble? I am going to die tomorrow."

*So tomorrow not, say hundred years after, you will have to die. You cannot escape this. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You are very scientifically advanced. There is no doubt about it. But what about your death? Why you shall accept death? You are eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. "You do not die after the destruction of this body." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. These informations are there, but you are not considering that. We are going on to establish ourself very tightly in this material world, but Kṛṣṇa says that you will not be allowed to live. These things are to be considered. Therefore they have been described as pramattaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. They are acting sinfully or they are committing so many sinful activities, and they are becoming entangled for another's body, who is the resultant action of our sinful activities. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says that na sādhu manye: "This is not good that you are wasting your time simply for sense gratification and you do not know that you have got a next life."

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



You are living entity; *you are not these flesh and bones. You are spirit soul and you are within this body. You are now entrapped with this material body, and so long you will act irresponsibly, you will get another material... Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ. You will get another body, and that body is not guaranteed. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. Although the spirit soul is there, but this particular body, the hog's body or the man's body or the demigod's body There are so many. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. There are 900,000 forms of body within the body. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And there are trees, plants, two million forms of body. So we have already gone through all this body, and we have got this human form of body after many, many millions of years by evolutionary process. Therefore Ṛṣabhādeva says, ayam deha. This body, don't think it is ordinarily received. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke: "In the human society you should not waste it like the hogs and dogs simply for sense gratification." This is the Bhāgavata instruction. You should soberly use it.



*So how soberly used? That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṛn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*You can utilize this body properly for higher standard of life. You can go to the higher planetary system. The higher planetary system begins from the sun. That is another subject matter. But so far we get information from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, there sun, then moon, according to Bhāgavatam. And I think... We were talking about these things, that whether the moon is the first planet or the sun is the first planet. So far we understand from Vedic literature, the moon is the second planet. The sun is the first planet. If we consider like that, then moon is beyond the sun planet. The estimation is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: 1,600,000 miles above the sun the moon is situated. Now, if we take consideration of the sun planet situated 93,000,000 miles from earth, then add 1,600,000 miles again, it comes to 15,000,000..., 95,000,000's miles away from the earthly planet. And how you can reach there in four days, 95,000,000 miles away? If we apply our common sense, then it appears they have never gone to the moon planet. It is all bogus propaganda. It is not possible.



*So śāstra*-cakṣuṣāt: our knowledge should be through the śāstra. That is practical. And our process of knowledge is this: we get knowledge from śāstra, like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedic knowledge. We do not claim to be very big scientists. That is not possible. But we get knowledge from the best scientific man or person, the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, later on the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Caitanya. Our process of knowledge is not any speculation: "It may be," "Perhaps." No. We don't accept this knowledge. "It may be," "Perhaps"-these are all foolishness. That means one who has no perfect knowledge, he will say, "It may be," "Perhaps." One who has definite knowledge, why he will say, "It may be"? It must be. That is knowledge. Just like we get knowledge from the śāstra, jalajā nava-lakṣāni: "There are nine hundred thousand species or forms of life in the water." So we have not gone into the water, but we get from the authorities, Padma Purāṇa, and we accept it. So our process of knowledge... You may say that "You have not practically experimented," but what you have experimented? You also hear from others. You believe that they have gone to moon planet. You have not gone. You have heard from somebody in the newspaper, that's all. That is your authority. So if you can believe in the newspaper, then I cannot believe in the śāstras?

*So it is a different source of knowledge, but one takes one source, another takes another source. Our source of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's disciples. That is our Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. This is the source of knowledge, avaroha-panthā, knowledge coming from higher authorities. Just like Ṛṣabhadeva is giving knowledge to His sons. That is natural. Sons take advice from the father. That is the beginning of knowledge. If a little child asks the father, "My dear father, what is this machine?" The father says, "My dear child, this is called microphone." So when the child says, after hearing from the father, that "It is microphone," that is perfect knowledge. The child may be a innocent child. He does not know. He is not a scientist. But when, after hearing from the authority, father, if he says, "It is microphone," that statement is correct. There is no mistake. Similarly, we may be fools and rascals. That's all right. But when we receive knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, who says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin, yat kaumāra yauvana, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ... [Bg. 2.13].

*When Kṛṣṇa says that within this body there is the living soul and the living soul is transmigrating... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As we are getting different bodies in this life also, from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to old body, then what is after old body? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: you get another body. But we do not know what kind of body we are getting. Where is that science? Where is that education, that there is dehāntara-prāptiḥ, there is transmigration of the soul, and there are so many different types of body? Suppose in this body I am very comfortably situated, I am a very big man, or very great minister, politician, everything is all right-but in the next life, if I am going to get the body of a dog, who can check it? Nature's law will go on. At that time, as minister or big man, if you dictate that "Give me a body like this," oh, that will not be heard. You will get a type of body according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. According to your karma, you will get a type of body. This is nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmani sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. We are completely under the grip of nature's law. We cannot change it. If we challenge that "There is no death," no, death will come. That is nature's law. And if you want to stop death, then that is another process. That is described here. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet: [SB 5.5.1] You have to accept this process of austerity by which you will purify your existence. Then you will get deathless life, eternal. Yat gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. Tyakvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya. This is the science. This Bhāgavata literature, this Vedic literature, is giving you information how you can revive your original, eternal life. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. That is the business of human life, not to become mad like hogs and dogs and simply work very hard-"Where is stool?"*-and eat it and get some strength, and then enjoy senses. This is not life. This is not civilization.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction is tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. Why it is necessary to purify my existence? Śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tu anantam. You are seeking after happiness, but your happiness is being checked. You have made very good arrangement for enjoying life, happiness, but it is being checked. You have to die. You make all nice arrangement, but you have to die. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Aham. Kṛṣṇa says that "Those persons who do not want Me, or persons who do not like to understand God, they will see God, Me." When? "At the time of death," as Hiraṇyakaśipu saw. He challenged always God. His son was devotee, and that was the misunderstanding between the father and the son...[break] This father said that "God is enemy. Viṣṇu is my enemy. You do not take the name of Viṣṇu." And the child, boy, will take. That is the cause of enmity. So at the end he saw Hiraṇyakaśipu Hiraṇyakaṣipu saw Nṛsiṁhadeva. Immediately finished everything. So that is the case of everyone, that one has to meet death. And at the time of death, whatever arrangement he has made for so-called happiness will be taken away. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. Then he will be offered another body. It may be a human body or he may be a dog's body or hog's body, and we have to accept it.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. The laws of nature is working, and he is infecting a particular type of the modes of material nature, he is preparing his next body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.



So in the human form of life if we do not purify our existence, if we do not realize God, if we do not understand what is my relationship with God, then we are simply wasting time living like cats and dogs. These things should be stopped. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for stopping this rascal civilization and giving you life.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] Yes?

*Guest (1): Your good sir, if you describe the following of Bhārata Mahārāja, Bhārata*-varṣa. I'd like to be enlightened on that, how the Bhārata-varṣa is derived.



Prabhupāda: Bhārata, Bhārata Mahārāja, yes.



Guest (1): You have very named... I couldn't get it. I feel, personally for myself, that the Bhārata was the new vision of the self as the fulfiller, and from that, it has been derived.



*Prabhupāda: There are two, three Bhāratas. So Śakuntalā's son was Bhārata, and Rāmacandra's brother was Bhārata, and the Ṛṣabhadeva's son was Bhārata. But from the sastric information we understand this Bhārata*-varṣa is meant from the name, from the name of Ṛṣabhadeva's son Bhārata.



Guest (1): Name of?



Prabhupāda: Bhārata.



Guest (1): And you say it has been derived from the twelfth son, Bhārata.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He had one hundred sons. The eldest son's name was Bhārata.



Guest (1): And what do you think about the factor in reincarnation? Do you think it has got any significance?



Prabhupāda: I do not think anything. I have already explained. We do not think, "Perhaps," "Maybe."



Guest (1): Do you think reincarnation is there...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the śāstra.



Guest (1): What is your opinion about it?



Prabhupāda: I have no opinion. I take śāstra as it is.



Guest (1): After all, you are writing...



Guest (2): My general difficulty, that the soul is not itself impossible to turn about, but...



Prabhupāda: [break] They train children as vyabhicāri, so how you can expect good civilization? So everything is there. It is very difficult, undoubtedly, but if you train from the very beginning of life... That is stated by Prahlāda Mahārāja:



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*He says... He was child, five years old. His other... In tiffin hours the other children of the demons, they were playing, and Prahlāda Mahārāja was asking to sit down and hear him. He was preaching, "My dear friends," kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān, "don't spoil your life by playing. Now this is the period of understanding bhāgavata*-dharma." Bhāgavata-dharma means to understand God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is called bhāgavata-dharma. So kaumāra ācaret prajñā dharmān bhāgavatān. If you want... We might have done mistakes in our life, but if we train our children in the brahmacārī system and gradually they understand the bhāgavata-dharma, at least their life becomes perfect. And in the Bhāgavata it is ordered that... You will find all this in this Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction. Pitā na sa syāt jananī na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syā..., guror na sa syāt: "One should not become guru... One should not become guru, one should not become kinsmen, one should not become father, one should not become mother"-na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum-"if one cannot give lesson to the children how to avoid death." This is the duty of the guardians, of the government, how to avoid death. Where is that education? So that is the defect of the modern education. There is no training. So, gardulika pravaha.(?) It is going on, very risky civilization.



Guest (2): Swamiji, I was asking point in a different way, that we are so helpless. We are born as human being with inherent weaknesses and shortcomings, like kāma, krodha, moha, lobha...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that I know. But you can rectify it provided you like. But if you don't like to rectify yourself, how it can be done? If you are thinking that you have got so many defects, you rectify your defects, just like these European, American boys. They were all illicit sex*-hunters and intoxicators and meat-eaters. That is their daily affair. How they have given up? They have decided that "We shall rectify ourself." You rectify yourself and you will be able to do. Are you prepared to rectify yourself?



Guest (2): That's why nature has given us to..., why nature...



Prabhupāda: Nature has made you a dog. Why should you remain a dog? You should become a human being. That is your duty.



Guest (3): My question: Do you think your quality to change... A person, if that sould becomes fate or lift...



Prabhupāda: No fate can be changed. I understand. These questions are generally put. Fate can be changed.



Guest (3): By name.



*Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti*-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. Others cannot change their fate, but only the devotees can change. How? Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I shall give you protection from all the resultant action of your sinful life." That is fate changed. If you don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then you have to suffer or enjoy the actions of your fruitive activities. But when you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, He takes charge of squaring up all your sinful activities and their reaction. That is... So you surrender to Kṛṣṇa; then your fate is changed. Otherwise it is not possible.



Guest (4): Your Divine Grace, on behalf of the residents of the Jorbhag Colony, I thank you most sincerely for coming here, taking the trouble of coming here and giving this learned discourse. In the inscrutable past and from the holy ages, this land of ours has thrown up great masters who have drunk deeply at the inexhaustible spiritual knowledge handed over to us... (end)





761023SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

-

Vṛndāvana, October 23, 197



Pradyumna:



ṛṣabha uvāca

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



"Lord Ṛṣabhadeva told His sons: My dear boys, of all the living entities who have accepted material bodies in this world, one who has been awarded this human form should not work hard day and night simply for sense gratification, which is available even for dogs and hogs that eat stool. One should engage in penance and austerity to attain the divine position of devotional service. By such activity, one's heart is purified, and when one attains this position, he attains eternal, blissful life, which is transcendental to material happiness and which continues forever."



Prabhupāda: So we have discussed this verse yesterday. It is very essential that this human form of body is meant for rectifying or purifying our existence. That they do not know, especially in the modern age, that this body is temporary and we living entities, we are eternal and this is our bondage. So long we are within this material body, it is our bondage. Real life is eternal life, without any birth, death, old age and disease. Where is that science? There is no such department of knowledge that how one can live eternally without any disease, without any old age and without any death and without any birth. If there is birth there is death. And between the two, birth and death, there is old age and disease. Where is that scientist who are trying to solve this problem?



*And Kṛṣṇa put this problem before us: janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. This is knowledge. They are making plans for so many things, but where is that plan to stop janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha? That is not so easy. Therefore they have avoided it. They do not touch this point. They are making arrangement for temporary so-called happiness. That attempt is done even by cats and dogs. That is not successful life. I have several times told you... This is Vedic civilization. When Visvamitra came to see Mahārāja Daśaratha... It is etiquette. Suppose a friend comes, we ask, "How are you, my friend? How things are going on?" So similarly, when Daśaratha Mahārāja inquired Viśvāmitra, "How are you?" that "How are you" was not ordinary question. He inquired, aihiṣṭaṁ yat punar janma jayāya. The great great saintly persons, sages, they are engaged in devotional service. What is the purpose? The purpose is not for some material gain. The purpose is different. That was inquired by Dāsaratha Mahārāja: aihiṣṭaṁ yat punar janma jayāya. "You are undergoing tapasya, austerities, for conquering over rebirth."

*Rebirth, that is very painful. But because we are mūḍhas, we have forgotten what is the painful condition is rebirth. We do not remember it. We do not remember. We had to pass through. We can simply imagine how it is painful to remain in the womb of the mother, packed up in an airtight bag and hands and legs you cannot move even. So this is the tribulations of taking birth. And similarly the tribulations of death. Sometimes one remains in coma for months and he suffers so much. Sometimes he cries. Actually tears come out. We cannot see, but within the body of the dying man is so much painful. This is called janma*-mṛtyu. And old man's, there are difficulties. And vyādhi. Everyone is subjected to some kind of disease. So we do not take account. So here Ṛṣabhadeva is stressing on this point. "My dear boys, do not spoil your life living like cats and dogs." Do not. This is not meant for this life. This human form of life is meant for different purposes. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. That we should always remember, that this human form of body is obtained after many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. Bahu sambhavante. Bahu sambhava. Sambhava means birth and death, birth and death. So we should not forget this. Everyone should be very serious. That is civilization. Not that to remain for sense gratification like cats and dogs fighting. This is not good.

So to achieve this highest goal of life, it requires tapasya, austerity. It is not easily obtainable. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Simply by... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended not whimsically. This is the prescription of this age: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. If you perfectly chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya*-not any other name but Kṛṣṇa-mukta-saṅgaḥ: you can become free from this material association, or the contamination due to material contact. That is the special advantage of this age. This age, Kali-yuga, is full of faulty things. Kaler doṣa-nidhe. It is an ocean of faulty things. It is very, very difficult. Sarvānge gha upaidha (?) mala. A man is suffering from itches or what is called..., sores, all over the body. So where he shall give ointment? He should be dipped in the ointment. This is the position. Similarly, how much you will find out, "This is faulty, this is faulty, this is faulty." The life in the Kali-yuga itself is faulty. Everything is faulty. So... But still, Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He has given an opportunity that by chanting His holy name one can become free from this faulty position. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅga paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. It is possible.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mahā*-vadānyāvatara, He is patita-pāvana. He is the deliverer of all the fallen souls. He has given us this much tapasya prescription. Tapasya must be there. And that is very easy to be done by us. It is not very difficult. One has to become very humble. That is the first qualification. Tṛṇād api sunīcena. Sunīcena means lower than the grass. Just like we trample over the grass; *they do not protest. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣnunā. And tolerant, humbler than the grass and tolerant than the tree. A tree gives us all benefit, but in return we give the tree so much trouble. We snatch away the twigs, we snatch away the leaves. Sometimes for our fuel we cut down. But there is no protest. So these things have been taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣnunā amāninā mānadena. Nobody should think himself that he is very prestigious person, falsely. Nobody is prestigious. Everyone should be humble. So these three, four things we should learn, and that is tapasya. And we should avoid the sinful activities, namely, no illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. These are some of the positive and negative formulas given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And if we follow this tapasya and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful.

*Life is successful means it is stated here, sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam [SB 5.5.1]. We are, every one of us, we are after happiness, sukham. From sukham it has come saukhyam. That happiness, if we want to continue our eternal life, then we require eternal happiness. Without happiness our life is not worth. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Everyone should be happy, ānandamaya. That is spiritual world. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. There is life, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Not jadānanda. This is jadānanda. In the material world, the material happiness is jada. There is no life. But there is a place which is full of eternal happiness. So this life should be engaged for that purpose, not to fight like cats and dogs. That is not very credit. Credit means ruining one's life. If one fights like cats and dogs, he becomes cats and dogs. Nature's law is very strict. Therefore we should be very careful not to become like cats and dogs but to become very humble-humbler than the grass and tolerant than the tree. Amāninā. Everyone wants that "I am very honorable man, prestigious man. And you should respect me." That is our material disease. "I do not want to respect you, but you should offer me respect." This is the position. Therefore our system is to call another Vaiṣṇava as prabhu. "Sir, you are prabhu, you are master." But we call prabhu, but I think, "No, you are not prabhu; I am prabhu. You are servant." This cheating process will not help us. Actually, we should believe that he is prabhu. "He is servant of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore he is my prabhu." This is Vaiṣṇava mentality. Gopī*-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsa. One who wants to become servant of the servant of the servant of the servant, he is actually prabhu [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. If falsely one thinks that "I am prabhu," then his life is spoiled. So this word we use amongst ourself, prabhu, means that "I am your servant, you are my master." But that should be practically exhibited. That is called tapasya, to learn all these things.

*Without tapasya, we cannot get out of this conditioned state. That is not possible. Those who are thinking that "Let us do whatever nonsense I can do, and at the same time I become free from this material condition..." No. That is not possible. One has to undergo tapasya. Just like if you are diseased you have to undergo some tapasya. Just like first of all you go to a medical man. Immediately he charges ten rupees, twenty rupees. In our country. In your country it is more. No doctor charges less than ten dollars. Ten dollars means in our exchange it is ninety rupees. So who can pay ninety rupees in this country? That is the minimum charge. Then there is medicine. So you have to pay it because you have got disease. And you have to earn this money with hard labor. So to cure your disease you have to undergo some penances, some austerities. This is an ordinary... And according to the gravity of the disease you have to pay more, which you may not have. You have to gather, you have to borrow, you have to beg. So these tribulations are called tapasya. So just for curing our ordinary disease we have to pay to the doctor, pay for the medicine, and then we have to starve also. We cannot take anything. So many things forbidden. So this austerity is called tapasya, denial, self*-denial. So we should learn it. If we want to utilize this body sane, like a sane man, then we should learn tapasya. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. And this tapa, what is the purpose of tapasya? Tapasya everyone knows. Just like a man walking on the street, pulling a thela. What is the purpose? He'll get five or ten rupees, whole day working like an ass. That is also tapasya. Tapasya means labor. So he's thinking, "I'll get ten rupees by working." He cannot pull it, the load is so heavy. Still, some way or other... That is also tapasya. A scientist discovering something, he has to work very hard, and make experiments So many things. That is also tapasya. But not that kind of tapasya. That kind of tapasya is not required. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. You are working hard for maintaining your body and soul together. You have to work hard. But here, that hard work should be for self-realization, divine contact. That is called divyam.

*Divyam is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply take little trouble to understand Kṛṣṇa... That tapasya required: to read Kṛṣṇa's instruction, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Because that tapasya, if you take little painful... It is not painful. It is very pleasing. But we avoid it. We think it is painful. "Ah! Who is going to read books? We are meant for selling books, not for reading books." This is not good. We should read also. That is tapasya. Saddhaya. That is tapasya. Don't think that simply our books are meant for selling. No. It is meant for reading also. If we read regularly, at least two hours, three hours, that is tapasya. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. To understand spiritual position, my spiritual position, Kṛṣṇa's spiritual... (aside:) Stop that. (child making noise) So that is tapasya. These are the tapasyas. To rise early in the morning, that is also tapasya. Not that every day we have to ring bell-dung, dung, dung, dung-"Get up! Get up!" "No, I am sleeping." No, you have to accept. These are the tapasyas. We cannot avoid. If we actually want to avoid this body, working like cats and dogs, like animals, then we have to undergo tapasya, a very simple tapasya.

*In this age, it is not possible that as big, big saintly persons they go to the forest and undergo meditation in Himalayan mountain under the snow and so many dif... No food, no shelter, secluded place, there are so many animals. That kind of tapasya is not possible in this age. You remain. We have constructed big, big nice building. But because the building is there, you simply come here as free guest and make life very easy for eating and sleeping, that is not tapasya. That is not tapasya. You must be very careful how to keep the temple very cleansed, yourself clean, worshiping the Deity. That is recommended. Śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan mandira-mārjanādau **. This is also tapasya. If you cannot read, if you cannot do any other thing, so try to keep the temple... Every corner of this temple is Kṛṣṇa. Don't think that only Kṛṣṇa is here in the temple room. No. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, especially this temple where Kṛṣṇa lives. Every part of this temple, every part of is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why it is recommended, tan-mandira-mārjanādiṣu? This is tapasya. You should always remain engaged doing something for Kṛṣṇa. Don't think, "This is very first class; *this is last class." No. Advaya*-jñāna. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's temple, the same thing. Don't think that "Oh, I am given this work to cleanse the temple, and that man is given this work to worship the Deity." There is no difference. Ārādhya bhagavān vrajeṣa tanaya tad dhāma vṛndāvanam. As vrajeṣa tanaya, Kṛṣṇa, is ārādhya, worshipable, similarly His dhāma, His place, this Vṛndāvana, is also worshipable, as good as Kṛṣṇa. What to speak of temple-whole Vṛndāvana. Whole Vṛndāvana. Just like Uddhava. Uddhava, when he came to take Kṛṣṇa to Mathurā, he immediately fell down on the grass of Vṛndāvana, that "These grasses are so fortunate that over this grass Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa's friends, they trample over." This is vaiṣṇava-vicara. Not that he's thinking grass is insignificant than Kṛṣṇa. No. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's fame, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's qualities, Kṛṣṇa's paraphernalia, Kṛṣṇa's associates-everything is Kṛṣṇa. And you should treat like that. That is tapasya. And following the footsteps, mahājana yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Sādhu mārgānugamanam. These things we should learn. Sādhu mārgānugamanam. Just like sādhu... Akrūra is a sādhu. How he respected even grass of Vṛndāvana. So unless we read books, literature, and follow their example, then how tapasya will be there? So things should not be neglected. Divya (?).

*So if we undergo this tapasya then our existence will be purified. This is... This method, this process, is devotional service. The devotional service, from the very beginning it is transcendental. Īhā yasya harer dāsye. If you simply desire to serve Kṛṣṇa, that's the beginning of existentional purification, immediately. Īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā vāca. Simply if you sincerely think that "How shall I serve Kṛṣṇa?" "Kṛṣṇa" does not mean simply Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa" means Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's quality, Kṛṣṇa's paraphernalia, Kṛṣṇa's association*-everything in connection. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha yukta vairāgyam ucyate. Everything.

*So in this way if we lead our life, then this life will be successful, and then the result will be yasmād brahma*-saukhyam [SB 5.5.1]. Brahma-saukhyam. Here brahma-saukhyam may be interpreted, as Māyāvādī says, brahma-sukha, brahma-lim. This is also brahma-lin, brahma-sukha, but it is not the Māyāvādī philosophy. Māyāvādī philosophy is to kill himself, to become one with Brahman. So if, suppose I have to eat something to enjoy. So I can eat. That is enjoyment. But if I lose my existence, I become the food, then where is the enjoyment? No. The enjoyment is: "The food is there, I am there, I shall eat and enjoy." That means dvaita. Monism is not enjoyment, and therefore they fall down: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32]. Brahma-sukha, do not think to become Brahman or to become one with Brahman... That is not sukha. That they do not know. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say, a poor fund of knowledge. By becoming one with the Brahman, Supreme Brahman, that is not actually sukha. If it is actually sukha, then why in the śāstra it is said, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32]? By very severe austerities they come to the Brahman platform, monism, to become one with the Supreme, but from there he falls down. Why falls down? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because they have no information of the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord. Unless you come to that point, then there is no possibility of eternal happiness.

*Therefore it is said, tapasya, tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. That is divyam. Kṛṣṇa has explained, janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. That means activities, transcendental activities. Not that Kṛṣṇa is a zero, full stop. No. Actual activities begins when there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These activities, they're my activities temporarily. They will not give us real happiness. Real happiness means when we come to the platform to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's activities. Tapo divyam putrakā yena [SB 5.5.1]. Then we will get eternal happiness. That is recommended here. Brahma*-sukha does not mean that, as ordinarily they think, that to become brahma-lin or merge into the existence of Brahman, no. That will be explained in the next verse: mahat-sevāṁ dvāram ahur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. It will be explained. We shall take up this subject tomorrow.

Thank you very much. (end)



761225SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1

-

Bombay, December 25, 197



Prabhupāda:



*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*This verse we were discussing yesterday. Portion of the verse was explained, and portion of the verse we shall try to explain this night. Tapo divyam. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear sons, this body, human body, nāyaṁ deha, this body is not for wasting life, dogs and hogs." They are not wasting. They are in the gradual evolution process. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. They are coming to the human form of body gradually, by nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. So long we are in the lower species of life, we are conducted by complete laws of nature, prakṛteḥ kriya-guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, according to the different guṇas.



There are three guṇas; *therefore the material nature is called guṇa*-mayī. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Kṛṣṇa says that this material energy... There are three different energies of the Supreme Lord. He has got multi-energies, parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. We can see activities are going on, different varieties of activities in this world, but they have been summarized into three divisions: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa... The animals, they are in the tamo-guṇa. Then gradually they are elevated by the evolutionary process to the rajo-guṇa, and then we are elevated to the sattva-guṇa. That is the brahminical qualification. And we have to surpass the sattva-guṇa also. Not that coming to the platform of sattva-guṇa we become perfect. No. There is chance of falling down from the sattva-guṇa. We have got practical experience in this age, Kali-yuga, many persons have fallen down from the platform of brahminical qualification. The brahminical qualification is the platform of sattva-guṇa: śamo damo titikṣava ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. This is the brahminical culture.

*So if by coming to the platform of brahminical culture, one is sure, that is not possible. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Sometimes sattva-guṇa is overpowered by rajo-guṇa or rajo-guṇa is overpowered by tamo-guṇa or sattva-guṇa is overpowered by tamo-guṇa. In this way, topsy-turvy it is going on. That is material world. But if you want to become above the material platform, then you have to take to the platform of devotional service. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā:

māṁ ca avyabhicārena

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*If you take to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we can overcome the jurisdiction of the guṇas. That is also advised by Lord Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna: traiguṇya*-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. This whole world is being conducted by the three guṇas, and if you want to go above the three guṇas, then you have to take to this platform, nistraiguṇya. Nirguṇa. Is called nirguṇa. Nirguṇa does not mean no quality. No. Nirguṇa means nirastaḥ yatra, material qualities. Do not think, as some philosophers think like that, that after being brahma-bhūtaḥ, as it is stated, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, then business is finished. No. Business is not finished.



*That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate param

[Bg. 18.54]



*When you come to this platform of transcendence, brahma*-bhūtaḥ... Because we are going on under the wrong impression that "I am this body." This is the most fallen condition of the present human society. They are taking this body... Of course, this bodily conception of life there was even five thousand years ago, when the Battle of Kurukṣetra took place. Arjuna was very much disturbed on the platform of this bodily conception of life, because he thought that he belonged to a particular family, and in that battle he was to fight with his family members. So he declined to fight. But Kṛṣṇa, to raise him from that platform, He chastised him, that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for a subject matter and at the same time you are talking just like a very learned man."



aśocyān anvaśocas tvam

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



*That means indirectly He accused Arjuna that "You are not paṇḍita. You're a fool because you are lamenting on the subject matter on which no paṇḍita laments." So what is that? This bodily conception, agatāsūṁś ca. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca. This body, dead or alive, is not the subject matter of study by learned scholars*-this is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā-dead or alive.



*So actually we are concerned at the present moment with the body*-either Indian, American, Hindu, Muslim, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are all bodily conception of life. But śāstra says that those who are on the bodily conception of life, they are no better than the animals.

yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijneṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*If on the bodily conception of life we take leadership, then the position is sa eva go*-kharaḥ. Go means cows, animal, and kharaḥ means ass. So he is no better than the animals go and kharaḥ. So how he can take leadership? This is the difficulty at the present moment, that we take leadership of the society although we remain on the bodily conception of life. They cannot take leadership. So another place it is condemned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. These are śāstric injunction, that when we elect some leader without any spiritual knowledge, then what is the position? The position is that the elected person is also one of us. And what is our position? Our position is without spiritual knowledge, without being beyond the bodily conception of life, we are no better than śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. Śva means dog, and viḍ-varāha means the stool-eater hogs, and uṣṭra means camel and ass. Ass means gadā, khara. Khara means ass. So this is a long definition. The summary is that without spiritual knowledge, with bodily conception of life, we are no better than the dogs, camels, and these hogs and asses. So we should not become like that. Therefore advises that tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed [SB 5.5.1].



*Now in the bodily conception of life we are so much contaminated that our existence is now polluted. Actually it is polluted, because Kṛṣṇa says, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is our position. Our position is we never take birth. We are not subjected to take birth because we are part and parcel of God, spirit soul. And na jāyate na mriyate vā: we do not die. How we are seeing... Every day we are dying. My father die, my brother die, my neighbor die. How is that? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is our position. We do not die, even the body is destroyed. So where is that knowledge throughout the whole world? There is no such... There is no university, no school, no college to impart this knowledge, that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], this simple word. This is fact. And who is speaking? The Supreme Personality of Godhead. He accepted. Arjuna accepted. Arjuna listened to Kṛṣṇa about Bhagavad*-gītā, and he understood that "Here is the Supreme Person." Not only that, he admitted that "Not that I'm Your friend." Just like it has become a fashion if I like somebody I make him God. Kṛṣṇa is not that type of God, by meditation or by votes. He is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Just like when He was only three months old on the lap of His mother, the Pūtanā came to kill Him. But He killed that Pūtanā rākṣasī. He was that time also God, when three months old. And He had not to undergo the austerities of meditation. He had no time. So from the very beginning up to the time of His departure from this world, He is God. That is God. God is not manufactured. God is always God. Neither God falls down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is addressed in the Bhagavad-gītā as Acyuta. Cyuta means falling down, and Kṛṣṇa is acyuta.

*So we are parts and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa admits, mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. We are sons of God, Kṛṣṇa. Not that by imagination; *God Himself says. And all śāstra says that jīva is equal in quality with God. That's a fact. Then why we are subjected to this birth and death, old age and disease? That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. We are trying to solve all problems of life, but real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Where is that scientist, where is that education to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease? They are trying to control: birth control, over-population. But that is not a problem. Birth control cannot be. That cannot be. The birth is increasing. That is not possible. And why birth control? That is also a long subject matter. There is no need of birth control, because Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the father." And Kṛṣṇa is not only ordinary father but He is the controller of nature:

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*So nature is producing our foodstuff, and He is the controller. And He is the father. So how there can be scarcity of food? This is a bogus propaganda: because the population is big therefore we cannot... This is our incapability. We cannot manage-we accuse that overpopulation. But actually if you study śāstra, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the father, the Supreme Lord, He is not a poor man. He knows. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. He knows past, present and future. So it is not that because there is overpopulation there is scarcity of food. No. That is not the cause. The cause is that as soon as people will become godless, the supply will be stopped. That time is coming. That time is coming. It is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that anāvṛṣṭi and kara-pīḍitāḥ. People gradually being godless, they will be suffering from these three principles. There will be no more rainfall. Therefore last time when I was in Europe*-I do not know what has happened now-there was scarcity of rain, and England was making plan to import water. So this is scientist's program. There is enough water in the sea, but they cannot use it. So that is hand of God. Unless God helps, Kṛṣṇa helps, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram... [Bg. 9.10]. The vast ocean, although the water is there, you cannot use one drop. You are so controlled.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



Ahaṅkāra, our false egotism, we are suffering by the punishment offered by nature.



*So the cause is godlessness. If we become godless, the prakṛti will restrict supply*-so much so there will be anāvṛṣṭi. How can control? Because you may be very great scientist, you may deny the existence of God, but when there is anāvṛṣṭi you are looking up in the sky, "When there will be cloud? When there will be rain?" Then taking this plea, our government will tax for relief fund. That is all mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Anāvṛṣṭi karo-pīḍita. People will be so much harassed. And ācchina-dāra-draviṇā giri-kānanam. They will be so much harassed by these three principles-no rainfall, scarcity of grains, and taxed heavily by the government... They will be so much harassed that ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā giri-kānanam, they will be forced to leave home, that "Now it is hopeless. I cannot manage. Let me go to the forest." And there will be... Now we are getting rice or wheat or sugar. But these things will be completely stopped. Now we are getting milk powder, but there will be no milk. It is not my imagination. They are described in the symptoms of Kali-yuga, that the end of Kali-yuga these things will happen. That means more and more suffering. More and more become godless, more and more suffering will be inflicted by the laws of nature.

Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says here that tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed [SB 5.5.1]. This human life is not meant for, I mean to say, spoiling by working hard like the animals, as we have said that, kaṣṭān kāmān. Kaṣṭān kāmān. We require something, some because we have got this body. Very easy solution is given by Lord Kṛṣṇa: annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. You produce foodgrains. Why you are going to produce tools and implements and... Of course, we do not condemn. But at the sacrifice of producing foodgrains, we simply open big, big tire factory. When I go to Delhi I see, from Vṛndāvana, hundreds and thousands persons are coming from the village on cycle to go to the tire factory, Goodyear tire factory. So now eat tire instead of getting food grains. So this is misdirected civilization. Kṛṣṇa does not say that you produce tire tube. Kṛṣṇa says annād bhavanti bhūtāni: "You produce anna." This is practical solution. We have therefore started in Europe and America farming. And they are very happy. In our latest Back to Godhead the description is published about our farm in France. We have got a very palatial building. We have named it New Māyāpur. What is the place?

Hari-śauri: Chateau d'Oublaise.



Prabhupāda: I cannot pronounce this French word. So anyway, our men, there are about three hundred men living there. Last time, four months, five months before I was there. It is very very nice place. We are getting our own fruits, own vegetables fresh, and we are getting fresh wheat and milk. It is so happy life.



*So government is also advertising "Go to the village." Actually that is life. Go to the village. Mahatma Gandhi also wanted to organize this life, but unfortunately you have changed. Now we have got place in Hyderabad about six hundred acres of land. We are also trying here. We have already done in Māyāpur. We are producing our own food, our own cloth, own milk, and we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the simplest life. This life is meant for not working like hogs and dogs. That is the instruction. Nayaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This is the business of the stool-eater hogs. But what is meant for human life? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed [SB 5.5.1]. Just rectify your existence. You are not to die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Why don't you take this formula seriously, that "I am not subject to die. I am not subjected to death. Why I am forced to take birth and die?" This one question, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now this life is meant for... "I am Brahman. Now I must inquire about my identity, about my constitutional position, how I can become happy, why I am put into this tribulation." Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Kṛṣṇa says; *I am not saying. This place, Kṛṣṇa says, this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. But we are trying to mitigate our distresses by material adjustment. But Kṛṣṇa says no, that is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Whatever plan you make, the nature will break it. You have to suffer here. Because you have preferred to come into this material world and want to become happy-you do not know what is the way of happiness*-you must suffer. Kṛṣṇa does not like, because you are His son, but it is a punishment under the control of the material nature.

*So if we want to avoid this punishment, duḥkhālayam, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-dosānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9], this polluted condition... This is polluted condition. I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So our question should be... [break] The human life is meant for inquiring about our permanent life. He requires a guru. Not a guru who can give me some so-called happiness by manufacturing some material things. No. The guru means, as it is described by Viśvanātha Cakravartī,

*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyana*-guṇārnavasya

vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāravindam **



*Guru means one who can deliver me from this duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Māyā... We are in the duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15], but under the influence of māyā we are thinking we are living very very happily, or we not trying to solve the question. No. This kind of solution will not help you, because you have to die. Whatever you make solution, Kṛṣṇa says, mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. If you don't agree to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, "All right, make your arrangement. But at the time of death I shall come and take away everything whatever you have got." Mrtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. Then your bank balance, your skyscraper building, your country, your family, your good name-everything will be taken away. And you have to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. Now whatever assessment we're given in this life, everything will be taken away, and we'll be forced to accept one body which you cannot deny.



*Karmanā daiva*-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. According to your karma you have to accept another body because you are under the laws of material nature.

puruṣaḥ prakṛti 'stho hi

*bhuṅkte prakṛti*-jān guṇān

*kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya

*sad*-asad-janma-yonisu

[Bg. 13.22]



*Puruṣaḥ. This living entity, he's puruṣaḥ. Factually he's not a puruṣaḥ, he's a prakṛti. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



apareyam itas tu viddhi

me prakṛtiṁ parām

*jīva*-bhutāṁ mahā-baho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*This material world is matter, bhūmir āpo 'nalo*-vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. They are described as prakṛti, prakṛti me bhinnā aṣṭadhā. And again He says that apareyam, "These are inferior prakṛti." But there is a superior prakṛti. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Who is that? Jīva-bhūtam, the jīvas, living entities.



*So we are prakṛti. We are trying to become puruṣaḥ. Puruṣaḥ means enjoyer. So our endeavor to become puruṣaḥ... Everyone is trying to be puruṣaḥ, enjoyer. And at last he wants to become the supreme puruṣaḥ: "I want to become God." When everything is baffled then he wants to become God. So this puruṣaḥ, when he's struggling, manaḥ ṣaṣṭānīndriyāṇi prakṛti sthāni karṣati, hard struggle for existence to become puruṣaḥ, but he cannot become puruṣaḥ. He's prakṛti. He's enjoyed. He's predominated, and the predominator is Kṛṣṇa. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the enjoyer; *we are enjoyed. We are not enjoyer. So that is mistake. That is our māyā. We are not enjoyer. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives us the direction, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa*-dāsa: [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109] don't try to become puruṣaḥ, enjoyer, artificially. Better instead of serving your senses you become servant of the Supreme Lord. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to convince people that "Don't try to become master artificially. You'll never be successful. Just agree to become servant of Kṛṣṇa." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. That is your perfection.

Thank you very much. (end)



690913SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1-2

-

London (Tittenhurst), September 1



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers then*-aside:) Where is my spectacle? (pause) Many thousands of years before, Ṛṣabhadeva... He is accepted as the incarnation of Godhead, king or emperor of the world. He instructed His sons. He had one hundred sons, and He was... Before retiring from His family life, He wanted to install His eldest son, Mahārāja Bharata, on the throne. And before retiring He was instructing His other sons as follows. Mahārāja Bharata was a great king, and after his name, India is called Bhāratavarṣa. This planet is..., was known before that as Ilāvṛtavarṣa, and after Mahārāja Bharata ruled, this planet was known as Bhāratavarṣa. Gradually, the planet was divided into so many other states. Now Bhāratavarṣa means a small piece of land known as India.



Anyway, the king of this planet, Ṛṣabhadeva, was instructing His sons as follows:

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*He's instructing, "My dear sons, this human form of body is not to be wasted like cats and dogs." What is that? How this body is wasted like cats and dogs? Now, kaṣṭān kāmān. Kāmān means sense gratification. So with hard labor, ultimate end of hard laboring is sense gratification. Now, not only in your country, but also in all other countries at the present moment, everyone is trying to make economic development. What is that economic development you have got very good idea: industrialization, high standard of living and so many other things. But the end is sense gratification. The purpose of economic development... It is wonderful for us. We are Indian. When we see... When I was in Los Angeles, there is a freeway. So eight lines of cars running in seventy miles speed this way, and eight miles of lines running cars on the opposite side. And unfortunately one day we had one car which was running at thirty*-five miles only, and our Gaurasundara was driving. (chuckling) Immediately he was arrested by the police. Not exactly arrested-stopped. That means you cannot run your car in this way, thirty-five miles speed. So now from impartial point of view, if we study why people are running in this way and that way... What is the ultimate goal? If we calculate very in cool head, the ultimate goal is sense gratification. That's all.



So however busy we may be, however intelligent we may be, however advanced we may be in material civilization, the real point is sense gratification. I have seen in the Times Square in New York, there are so many advertisements for sense gratification. Advertising, "Here you'll have nice girls. Come on," like that. Freely written, and some naked picture. And so many theaters. The whole idea is sense gratification. That's all. Ṛṣabhadeva... It is not new. This is very old fashioned. This sense gratificatory process is current in all other planets, even which we call the demigods' planet, heavenly planet, the moon planet, the sun planet, everywhere. From the highest planet, Brahmaloka, down to the, what is called, Pātālaloka... There are different Sanskrit names of different planets. Everywhere in this material world is, the ultimate point is sense gratification. That's all.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva is pointing out that this sense gratification problem or desire or propensity is there even in the hogs and dogs. Therefore He says, distinguishing the human form of life from the life of lowest class of animals, that He says ayaṁ deha, "this body." Na ayaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means in the human society. Everyone has got body. The dog has body, the cat has body, the tiger has body, the bird has body. Everyone has got body. Similarly we have also got body. Therefore He is warning, "My dear sons, in this body the aim of life should not be sense gratification after so much trouble." If the point is sense gratification, then why so much, I mean to say, manifestation of economic development? Do you think that those who are not fortunate to have these flyways or motorcars or a skyscraper building... Take for example the most aborigines, the most uncivilized nation somewhere in Africa or any other part of the world. Are they not sense gratifying? The dogs and hogs, they are not sense gratifying? So if the ultimate aim of life is simply sense gratification, then why should we take so much trouble?

*There is a very nice story*-these are very instructive story from Bhāgavata. There was a very nice prostitute. Her fee was, if anyone wants to visit that prostitute, she was charging one hundred thousands of, what is called, diamond pieces. Diamonds you can understand. One diamond piece is at least five hundred dollars. So she used to charge, "If somebody wants to visit my house, then he must pay one hundred thousand pieces of diamond." So there were rich men. For sense gratification she was being paid. But one poor man and diseased man, so he had his very faithful wife. Although he was very poor and diseased, his wife was serving him very nicely. The husband could not work because he was diseased, and the wife was working, and, I mean to say, maintaining her husband, herself. Fortunately she had no children. But the husband was always morose. Now the wife is asking, "My dear husband, I am trying to satisfy you in so many ways, working myself and cooking for you, giving you foodstuff, and I am getting you bathed and everything. Why you are so morose?"

So he was hesitating to disclose his mind. When she insisted that "You disclose. Why you are so sorry? Then I shall try to satisfy you..." (aside:) Come on. ...so he disclosed his mind. What is that? "I want to visit that prostitute." Just see. He is poor man and (chuckling) he is diseased. Just see how much this lust and sense gratification is strong. He was thinking of going to that prostitute, and he disclosed his mind to his wife. Wife was very faithful. She wanted to satisfy her husband. So she promised, "My dear husband, I shall try my best to take you to that prostitute." "Oh, where you'll get one hundred thousand pieces of diamond?" "All right. I shall see to it." Then she went to the prostitute's house, and without her permission she was washing her dishes, her clothes, and, I mean to say, sweeping the rooms and everything. The prostitute asked, "Who are you? You are coming. You are not charging anything. You are not asking anything. What do you want?" "I shall tell you." So in this way, when she was daily asking that "What is your mind. You tell me. You are very nice woman. You are, for nothing you are working for me. I must something do for you." Then she disclosed her mind: "My dear lady, I am very poor woman, but my husband, he is diseased and he has no money, but he wants to visit you." So the woman could understand. She said, "Yes. You can bring your husband on such and such date." So she was very glad and told her husband that "I have fixed up, appointed a date. You shall be able to go." Oh, he was very glad.

*Now when the man visited the prostitute's house, she received the man. In India it is system that when you receive a gentleman or lady you must give him sumptuously to eat. So there was many palatable dishes served to the man, and each vegetable and each preparation was put in two pots*-one in iron pots and one in golden pots. So he was eating. Now this man asked the prostitute, "Well, you have given me the same preparation in two pots: one in gold pot and one in iron pot. Why? What is the idea?" So she said that "First of all taste it. Then I shall disclose what is the idea." So he was tasting, eating. Then the prostitute asked him, "How do you like?" "Oh, it is very nice." "Then, is there any different taste in the golden pot?" "No. Same taste." "And the iron pot?" "Oh, the same taste." So she replied at that time that "You are so rascal that you want to gratify your senses, but you do not know that sense gratification in poor wife or rich wife is the same. There is no difference of taste, so why you are after a woman by paying this one hundred thousands of jewels?" The idea is... This story is very instructive, and it is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The idea is the same thing... [break] ...sense gratification is the ultimate aim of life, then why so much hard trouble for decorating the process of sense gratification? Why wasting so much time for decorating?

*So Ṛṣabhadeva is asking that sense gratification there is necessity, because we have got senses. But not with too much trouble, accepting too much trouble in the name of economic development. Because our time is very valuable. If we want to utilize our short duration of life which we have got at our disposal, we must utilize it for self*-realization, not for unnecessarily increasing the necessities of bodily wants. This is not a good type of civilization, simply wasting time for sense gratification. Time should be utilized for greater advantage. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ. You know... In your country I have seen many tabloids, "Time is money." Yes, actually time is very valuable, but we do not know how to utilize this time. That is the mistake of this present civilization. Time should not be, I mean to say, wasted simply for sense gratification. So far the problem of sense gratification is there, it should be minimized. It should not be increased. Minimized.

*Just like according to Vedic system there are brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa*-four divisions of the society. Brahmacārī, vānaprastha. Brahmacārī means student life, vānaprastha means retired life, and sannyāsa means renounced life. For them the minimum necessities of life is prescribed. And they should be automatically minimum because they are ordered to beg from door to door and live. The brahmacārī is meant for begging. Now, no beggar can live very luxuriantly. That is not possible. It is not possible. So if a beggar goes somebody's house, "Mother, give me some alms," so it is not that one is awarding some hundred thousands of rupees or dollars. So naturally, they have minimized their... Only little luxury or, I mean to say, high standard of life is allowed to the gṛhasthas, according to Vedic system, and the three other sections of the society, they should minimize. Why minimize? Because the idea is not to waste time unnecessarily. Unnecessarily.

*After all, either you live very high standard of life or low standard of life... There is no question of low standard of life. The proper upkeep of health is cleanliness. If you keep yourself clean, then your, I mean to say, problem of health is solved. Simply cleanliness. "Cleanliness is next to godliness." That is also an English proverb. And in Sanskrit literature also, bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ: "One should be cleansed within and without." So without, you can clean yourself simply by water. By the laws of nature you have got enough water so you can cleanse yourself outside by water. There is no necessity of soap. There is no necessity of anything. Simply if you wash your body with water sufficiently. Of course, in your country it is cold country. In India, common people they go to the river and take bath very nicely because it is a tropical climate. There is no trouble. So you can cleanse your body. There are many saintly persons residing on the bank of the river Ganges. Early in the morning they cleanse the body. They go to evacuate on the field. After evacuating they come to the river, cleanse the body very nicely, and smear the body with the clay received from the river, and they sit down at a place and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa*-whole day. They don't care for whether they have got to eat or not to eat. By God's grace somebody is coming, somebody is giving something, somebody is giving something. Just like in your country also you are offering, somebody is offering food, somebody is offering something. So there is arrangement by God's law, everyone shall eat. It is not that... You have never seen any animal or any bird has died for starvation. No. There is no starvation in the law of God. Everyone has food. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. By the laws of nature, by God's order, everyone has, I mean to say, provision for four things. What is that? Eating, shelter, and sense gratification, and defense. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. This is secure. Everyone. If you see a bird, bird's life. By nature, one bird has got another mate. A male and female, they are together. Anywhere you go: a tiger, a tigress; *a dog, a she*-dog; *a hog, a she*-hog. So these are not problems. Here also, anyone. A boy, a girl; a man, woman; there is. So the arrangement is there. That is not problem.

So we should be satisfied. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness means whatever is received through the mercy of God, we should be satisfied. That's all. Therefore we prescribe that our students should be married. Because that is a problem. Sex life is a problem. So this marriage in every society, either Hindu society or Christian society or Muhammadan, marriage is done under religious rituals. That means one should be satisfied. "Oh, God has sent me this man as my husband." And the man should think that "God has sent me this woman, this nice woman as my wife. Let us live peacefully." But if I want, "Oh, this wife is not good. That girl is nice," "This man is not good. That man is good," then the whole thing is spoiled. Whole thing is spoiled. Because these demands are there, sense gratification. On the basis of sense gratification, "I don't like this girl. I like that girl." "I don't like this boy. I like that boy." That means sense gratification. Otherwise, the sense gratification... As I have already cited the example, the prostitute gave two pots of vegetables, that "You are thinking that you shall enjoy this woman who is charging one million dollars, or like that, the sense pleasure from this woman will be greater than the other woman. It is mistake." The sense pleasure is the same either you derive it from this man or that man or this woman or that man.

*So if our Kṛṣṇa consciousness improves, then we may be satisfied whatever is kṛṣṇa*-prasāda. That's Kṛṣṇa cons... Whatever Kṛṣṇa has offered me, that is sufficient. No more. Then our problem of sense gratification is solved. Similarly, your bread problem is solved, your apartment problem is solved. If you make your life very simple and shortcut, then the balance time you can utilize for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the program. This is the program of Vedic civilization. You'll find great scholars, Vyāsadeva... There is no comparison of his scholarship, how many... Now, this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has written eighteen thousand verses. And not only Śrīmad-... He has written eighteen Purāṇas. Out of eighteen Purāṇas the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is one Purāṇa. And in one Purāṇa you find eighteen thousand verses, and each and every word is so meaningful that you study throughout your whole life, oh, still you'll find refreshed. Why this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam? There is Mahābhārata. And out of the Mahābhārata the Bhagavad-gītā is only one chapter, seven hundred verses. Such a great scholar was living in a cottage. You see. Not only that. He was, of course, brāhmaṇa, he was saintly... But he was family man. He had his wife, he had his children.

Similarly, you'll find the history of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. He was a great politician, prime minister of Emperor Candragupta. Those who have read history of India, they know it. The Candragupta was during the time of Alexander the Selkar(?) in Greece. He also visited India to conquer. That history is there. So at that time Candragupta was the emperor of India, and he had his prime minister Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And he was not charging a farthing. And he was vastly learned man. You see. His politics is studied in the M.A. class in India university. And those who are the students of politics, they might have known this gentleman's name, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And in India, New Delhi, there is a quarter where foreign ambassadors are supplied place. So that quarter is known as Cāṇakyapuri. Cāṇakyapuri. Because he was politician, under his name that place is ascertained Cāṇakyapuri. So the prime minister, the great scholar, the great scientist, they used to live in a cottage. They gave us so much contribution how to make scientific advancement. Because the brāhmaṇas, they were meant not for material enjoyment. Simply for... Therefore four classes. Only the kṣatriyas and vaiśyas were meant for economic development.

*So the whole idea here is expressed by Ṛṣabhadeva. "My dear sons," ayaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye, "you should distinguish yourself from the hogs and dogs, that simply for sense gratification, this life is not meant for working very hard." That is the modern civilization. Not only here... Now, the whole material world, history is like that. People are after sense gratification. (aside:) Come on. So Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, a great commentator on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, is explaining this verse that kaṣṭān, kaṣṭa-pradan kāmam yoṣit-darśana-sparśanadim na arhate naivarhati iti.(?) Kāmān. He has plainly explained that kāma, sense gratification, means to see woman with lust or to touch woman with lust. That is called kāma, or sense gratification. So this is natural. Materialistic life means wherever there is some beautiful woman or girl, it is natural. It is not... One sense, it is not bad because it is natural. There is a very nice verse written by Rūpa Gosvāmī. He is explaining, yuvatīnāṁ yathā yūni yūnāṁ yathā yuvatau.(?) Yuvatī means young girl, and yūna means young boy. So he is expressing his desire, "My dear Lord, as a young boy has got natural affection for a young girl, or a young girl has got a natural affection for a young boy..." Spontaneously. It is not to be taught or to be educated in the schools and colleges. Spontaneously the attraction is there. "...how my attraction for You will be like that, spontaneous?" It is a very nice example.

*So this attraction for man or woman is called kāma. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that this has to be controlled. This has to be controlled. That is the distinction between human life and animal life. Animal life, they are still controlled, but human life, being so*-called advanced in civilization, they have no control. You'll be surprised that lion... These examples are given in the śāstras. It is not that the animal-eaters or meat-eaters have got more passion than the vegetable-eaters. No. The example is given there is the śāstra, comparison between lion and the pigeons. The pigeons are vegetarian. They simply eat grains. And the lions, they eat only meat and flesh. So... But still, in spite the lion's eating flesh, he has got only one sex appetite, once in a year. But the vegetarian, the pigeon, although eating grains, oh, at least hundred times daily. You see? So it is not that the vegetarians are less passionate than the animal-eaters or flesh-eaters. Nature's codes are different. It can be controlled. But human consciousness, this control is, I mean to say, practiced from the brahmacārī life. Because the... Unless we control our sex life, there is very little possibility of advancing in spiritual consciousness.

Because spiritual perfection means to stop the transmigration of the soul from one body to another. That is real spiritual perfection. Stopping. Stopping the soul, the spirit soul, transmigrating. This process is going on. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Lord Caitanya says that each and every spirit soul is just wandering throughout the whole universe from one planet to another, one body to another. This business is going on. But the basic principle of that continued transmigration is sex life or sense gratification. Anyway, as long we have got a pinch of sense gratification we have to take birth in any form or any shape within this material world. That is the whole process. Therefore if we are at all interested... And that interest must be there in human life; *otherwise it is spoiling. That is the problem, that no more transmigration from one body to another. That problem can be solved in this human form of life. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva advises His sons, "My dear sons, to work very, very hard simply for sense gratification is not the business of human form of life." Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke.

*Then what it is meant for? The next line He says that tapaḥ. Tapaḥ means austerity. Austerity. What is that austerity? The austerity is to follow the rules and regulations by which one can elevate himself to the spiritual platform. That is required. In human... Either you practice yoga or haṭha*-yoga or jñāna-yoga or dhyāna-yoga or karma-yoga or... Everything is yoga. As I explained last night in the meeting in the church, that yoga is one staircase to reach to the perfection of spiritual realization, and there are many steps. Just like haṭha-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, there are many steps. But the perfectional stage is bhakti-yoga. The perfectional stage is bhakti-yoga. That should be the aim of life. But people do not know it that what is the aim of life. The aim of life is self-realization and to understand and to know and to reestablish our lost relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That should be the aim of life. Therefore it requires tapaḥ. Tapaḥ means voluntarily accepting some penances. Just like I am inclined for sense gratification, and tapasya means voluntarily avoid too much sense gratification. The śāstra does not stop sense gratification. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. If the nature law allows sense gratification to the lower animals, birds and beast, why not to the man? But it should be controlled. Tapasya.

*So this is also tapasya. Just like if one man is satisfied with one woman or one woman is satisfied with one man and live peacefully, that is tapasya. Because natural inclination is that "I want to enjoy that man or that woman." But if you can control, that you be satisfied with woman or with one woman, that is called tapasya. That is austerity. That is, voluntarily, you are restraining himself. Tapasya means voluntary restraint. In India, still, the system is followed in conservative families that a widow cannot marry. There is no widow marriage in India. They, the... Manu*-saṁhitā, the law-givers, the saintly persons, Manu-saṁhitā... Why widow marriage is prohibited? The idea is generally, everywhere, in all countries, the female population is greater than the male population. So the idea is that she has become widow. She was once married. Now if again she is married, another virgin girl, she does not get the chance of being married. Therefore there is no widow marriage according to Hindu scripture. And a man is allowed, if he is, I mean to say, able man, he can marry more than one wife. Not that simply marry. To get more than one wife does not mean sense enjoyment. The wife must be maintained very respectfully. She must have good house, good ornaments, good food, good servants, good children. Then one can marry. Not that simply for sense gratification.

*Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives. And sixteen thousand wives, sixteen thousand palaces. And each wife, ten children. And Nārada wanted to see how Kṛṣṇa is managing these sixteen thousand wives. He wanted to visit each and every palace, and he saw that everywhere Kṛṣṇa is present. That means not that He remained one and there were sixteen thousand. Because there were sixteen thousand wives, so with each and every wife He was present. That is God. He can expand Himself. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. He is all-pervading. Why sixteen thousand women? If He's omnipotent, all-powerful, then sixteen millions of wives also insufficient for Him.

*So the program of sense gratification should be minimized, and that is called tapasya. Tapaḥ. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Then, "Why I shall minimize my sense gratification? If I have got opportunity, I must utilize it to the best of my capacity. That is being done not only now. Every time." No. You have to do it: divyam, for self*-realization, for God-realization. You have to save your time. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā. And what is the purpose of that self-realization, or God-realization? That is yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet. Then your existence will be purified. What is the necessity of purifying my existence? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmāt... If you purify your existence, then yasmād brahma-saukhyam [SB 5.5.1], you'll relish unlimited pleasure. You are after now temporary pleasure by sense gratification, but in this life, in this human form of life, if you control your sense gratification and utilize the time for self-realization, so as soon as you are self-realized man or Brahman realized man then your happiness is unlimited. You are after happiness. Your sense gratification means you are after happiness, but this happiness is temporary. Any material happiness, it has no continuity. It has got limit. But if you want... But my desire is to have unlimited happiness, unlimited life, unlimited knowledge. If you want that, so try this life, this human form of life. Don't waste it simply after sense gratification, but practice austerity. Minimize your sense gratification. Be satisfied whatever is offered by nature or by God. We don't... Not complete abstinence, but regulate it, and the balance time utilized for self-realization. Then your perfection will be there by which you'll live eternally. You will enjoy eternally and your knowledge will be unlimited.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva instructed in this way. It is very instructive chapter. If you continue to understand this instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva... Now we have only read one verse. The next verse is that mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. Mahat-sevā. If you want this platform of self-realization, or spiritual life, then your engagement should be mahat-sevā, to serve a great soul, to associate with great soul. Then that will be possible. We shall discuss this next śloka. Mahat-sevā. Who is mahat, who is great soul, how to serve, everything we shall discuss next meeting.

*Thank you very much. Any questions? Any question? Try to understand this philosophy scrutinizingly. You have got intelligence, you have got brain. So if there is any doubt, whatever is spoken... It is not dogmatic, pushing, or thrashing something. No. It is scientific and reasonable, whatever is said in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Amalaṁ purāṇam. It is spotless. Nobody can find any fault. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. Amalam means spotless. Yes.

Devotee (1): You gave some diet that we should follow. We shouldn't have meat, eggs, fish, and chicken. Can we eat cheese? I mean, is everything else possible? Can we eat anything else that isn't fish..., meat, fish, eggs and chicken? Is there anything else we should not eat in our diet?



*Prabhupāda: Our program is to eat kṛṣṇa*-prasāda.



Devotee (1): I know, but I mean if we're not in a position, like we're away from... Like we're on the road at lunchtime or something.



Prabhupāda: Lunchtime you can eat bread, butter, fruit, milk. There are so many things. Dry fruits. So there are so many. God has supplied your country is, by God's grace, you have got sufficient foodstuff. You can use potato, vegetables.



Devotee (1): Cheese?



*Prabhupāda: Cheese also. Cheese is milk preparation. You can eat. And offer it to Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa, these things are supplied by You. Kindly You taste it, then I'll take." You can do that everywhere. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. At least we should acknowledge that everything is sent by Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is a fact. Kṛṣṇa's laws or nature's law is so nice that a cow is eating grass and producing milk. Now, if you think that grass is the cause of milk, then you are mistaken. It is the laws of Kṛṣṇa that transforms grass into milk. If you eat..., you eat grass, then you'll die. But the cow, she is eating grass... That also not supplied by your factory. The grass is produced by nature's way. And she is eating that grass and supplying the most nutritious food-milk*-and in exchange you are cutting throat. How you can be happy? Such an innocent animal. She is eating grass supplied by God, and instead of grass, if you think that "She is eating grass from the land, American land or my land. She must give me something," she's supplying milk. What reason there is?



*So if we human beings, if we forget even ordinary mercy, compassion and gratefulness, then what is that human life? And then from national point of view... National means one who is born in this land. The cow is also born in this land. So why the man should be given protection, not the cow? But according to Vedic civilization you see. You have read in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, I explained. Oh, one man was going to kill one cow. Immediately Mahārāja Parīkṣit took his sword, "Oh, you are trying to kill cow in my kingdom? I shall immediately kill you." The special protection, brāhmaṇas and cow. You know, we offer Kṛṣṇa obeisances, namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca: "Kṛṣṇa, You are the leader of brahminical civilization." The purest civilization. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. "You are the well-wisher of cows and the brāhmaṇas." Why special stress is given to the words go and brāhmaṇa, cows and brāhmaṇas? Then he said, jagad-dhitāya. "After being, first being well-wisher to the cows and brāhmaṇas, then You are well-wisher of this general world." Jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindāya namo namaḥ. This is the prayer, namo brahmaṇya-devāya.

*So why this specific stress has been given to the cows and brāhmaṇas? Just see Kṛṣṇa's picture, how He's loving the cow. You see? He is instructing by His practical life how He is compassionate with the cows. He played as a cowherd boy. Why? Because if in human society these two things are neglected, cows and the brāhmaṇa, that is animal society. Animal society. That is not human society. That is the idea. Because the brāhmaṇas, they will give you good information of spiritual life, and cows will give you the best food you can have within this material world. That is the real interpretation of go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. If you have simply a cow and... The great sages, just see. A child born, it lives simply on cow's milk. First of all, mother's milk. Milk for six months. Then when it is a little grown up, you simply give her sufficient milk, oh, she'll be very stout and strong. Then supply it little grains, fruits. That's all.

*So we have got many foodstuff in the vegetarian kingdom, and Kṛṣṇa asks you that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: [Bg. 9.26] "Anyone who is offering Me..." This is universal. Patram means a leaf. Just like a leaf. Puṣpam, a flower. And patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. Phalam means a fruit. And toyam means water. So any poor man can offer Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of, I mean to say, luxuriant foodstuff, but it is meant for the poorest man. The poorest of the poor men can secure these four things*-a little leaf, a little flower, a little fruit, and little water. Any part of the world. Therefore He is prescribing, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: "Anyone who offers Me with love and devotion..." Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam. "Because it is brought to Me with love and devotion," aśn āmi, "I eat." Kṛṣṇa is not hungry, neither He is poor. But the main thing is bhaktyā, devotion and love. So whatever you offer Kṛṣṇa with devotion and love within this group as prescribed by Him, Kṛṣṇa accepts it. So you can offer anywhere. It does not matter that you have to offer in temple. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. So you offer and eat that. This cauliflower is also flower. This is also flower. (chuckles) And potato is fruit. Fruit, flower. Yes.

So any other question? Yes?

Devotee (2): Swamiji? Why is it that in the mornings and the evenings we say bells before the Deity?



Prabhupāda: Bells?



Devotee (2): Prayers. Bells.



Prabhupāda: Oh, that is ceremonial. Yes. When you offer something to Kṛṣṇa in the temple, the system is that you offer with bell. That bell offering worship, even in Christian world there is bell, church bell. So that is system everywhere. Only in Muhammadan religion they don't allow any sound. Yes. But in Hindu religion or in other religion there is sound. Sound vibration. Our whole process is sound vibration. The Muhammadans, they offer silent prayer. That is also prescribed in devotional service.



Devotee (3): Did Kṛṣṇa invent Rādhā for His own pleasure?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Not invent. Kṛṣṇa has nothing to invent. Everything is there. Invent means what was not in Him.



Devotee (3): ...created?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No. It is not like that. It is always there(?), and when manifested. His energy manifested. It is for our understanding. Rādhā is always manifest constantly, but because we want to say that Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything, so He is also source of Rādhā. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. And another meaning is... That is explained by Gosvāmī, that Rādhā is not an ordinary woman. If somebody thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, They're side by side just like a boy and girl." No. If Kṛṣṇa is transcendental whole spirit, similarly the Rādhā or His expansion, Her expansion... It is explained in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. This is expansion of the quintessence of spiritual energy, ānanda-cinmaya. Ānanda means blissful, and cinmaya means spiritual. So all kṛṣṇa-līlā, all Kṛṣṇa's activities, they are manifestation of His spiritual internal potency. You understand this?



Devotee (3): Yes. But what I wanted within that... Did She have to become transcendence?



Prabhupāda: No. She is already transcendental.



Devotee (3): She's always transcendental.



*Prabhupāda: She hasn't got to become. Become means... Nobody become. Become means... Just like to become healthy. To become healthy is a thing... Not that the man was not healthy. He has fallen diseased. You understand? When I say to become healthy, to become healthy does not mean that he was not healthy. He was healthy. Somehow or other, he is now diseased. So the "become" is applicable to the diseased or to the condition. Not to the original. So Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa or His expansions, They're original spirit. We are also original spirit. In contact with matter we are now diseased; *therefore "to become" is applicable to the conditioned soul, not to the liberated. "To become," the past, present and future is applicable within this dual world. In the spiritual world there is no past, present, future. That is eternal. So "become" is applicable to us who are conditioned. Conditioned means by contamination of matter we are suffering. So we have to go to the healthy life, spiritual life. That is required. "To become" is not applicable to anything of Kṛṣṇa's name, fame, form, paraphernalia, expansion. They are all transcendental and eternal. And you can also become one of them as soon as you are freed from this material contamination. That is practice of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. If you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and at the end of life, if you continue, then next life you also become brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. You also associate with the same. And there will be no distinction at that time-either Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā or all expansions-because they are all spiritual. Oneness. That oneness. Your question was that the oneness. Because there is no disagreement, there is no dissension. Everything is in harmony, spiritual harmony; therefore one. Any other question? You have any question? No? All right. (pause)



Devotee (2): Swamiji? When we ring bells especially for the Deities at 6:30, does that put Them to sleep then?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Not six*-thirty. One and a half hour before sunrise.



Devotee (2): Oh. So we should say prayers in the morning at one hour and a half before sunrise?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the system.



Devotee (2): Oh.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. In Vṛndāvana you'll find just early in the morning before... Exactly one and a half hours before sunrise all temples will ding*-dong, ding-dong, like this. And people will automatically rise up and go to see the first ceremony. It is very nice. So that you'll be forced to rise early in the morning. If you practice you'll be practiced to... "Early to rise, early to..." "Early to bed, early to rise"?



Devotee (2): "...makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise."



Prabhupāda: Yes. You become automatically healthy, wealthy and wise. Yes. But here you are accustomed to sleep up to twelve o'clock. (laughs) No. That is not good. Yes?



Devotee (2): Can we chant a little while "Kṛṣṇa"?



Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. This chanting is nice program. Now chant. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) (end)





730812SB.PAR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1-2

-

Paris, August 12, 1973



*(This lecture was translated into French. Śrīla Prabhupāda speaks a few sentences, Jyotirmayī*-devī dāsī translates this, and then Śrīla Prabhupāda continues. Jyotirmayī-devī dāsī also translates the questions and answers at the end of the lecture)

Prabhupāda:



*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*This evening I shall explain to you some of the important verses from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest contribution of Vedic literature. In the Vedic literature we find a desire tree. Whatever knowledge you want to derive, there is in the Vedic literature, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is described as nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ [SB 1.1.3], the desire tree of Vedic literature, and a tree is eulogized on account of the fruit. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the ripened fruit of that desire tree. Just like, God has given our food, nice milk, fruits, food grains, sugar, rice, wheat, so many nice things. So we are not meant for eating stool. But at the present moment we have discovered a civilization that every man is work, is to work very, very hard day and night, and he is satisfied only in sex intercourse. This is the tendency of this material world. For sense gratification one is advised to work hard, day and night, like asses, dogs and hogs.



*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva advises His sons, "My dear sons, do not waste your valuable body, human form of body, like the dogs and hogs." Then what, what is the purpose of human life? If we are not meant for living like the dogs and hogs, then what is the standard of human life? The answer is tapo divyaṁ putrakā [SB 5.5.1]. "My dear son, this life is meant for tapaḥ." Tapaḥ means austerity. Tapaḥ another meaning is that temperature. Just like if we go in front of the fire, or if you go in the open sunlight, we get some temperature. That is called tapaḥ, or tāpaḥ, sometimes it is called tāpaḥ, temperature, Yes. So this tāpaḥ means some temperature. (aside:) Why it is not working? That means voluntarily we have to accept some tāpaḥ, or little temperature. So generally the animal, they are meant for sense gratification, but human life has to practice tapasya to control sense gratification. Just like we are prescribing to our disciples: no illicit sex life, no intoxicants, no meat*-eating, and no gambling. No illicit sex means, just like the dogs and hogs, they have no consideration with whom they're having sex intercourse. The hog especially, pig. He does not discriminate whether sister, mother, or anyone, you see. So tapaḥ means... We are accustomed to so many, I mean to say, sinful activities, so we have to restrain from them. So tapasya, accepting voluntarily some painful situation, that is required. Say for (example) I am accustomed to smoke or to drink wine. So, I have to give it up. This is meant for human life. I have to give it up. Although I shall feel some pain in the beginning, but still I have to tolerate it. This is called tapasya.

*In the western countries to give up these habit is little difficult, because about forty years ago, one of my brother, God*-brother, came to London and he had a talk with Marquis of Zetland, and the Lord inquired from him whether he can be converted into a brāhmaṇa. He inquired from my God-brother whether he can be made into a brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa. So our God-brother said, "Yes, you can be converted into a brāhmaṇa if you give up these habits, namely illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling." The gentleman's reply, Lord Zetland, "It is impossible." So that means he was not prepared to accept the tapasya. Voluntarily, abnegation. But here Ṛṣabhadeva says that the human life is meant for tapasya, and not for living like pigs, hogs, and dogs. Next he says tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1], because tapasya means to accept voluntarily some painful situation. It is not very much painful, but they consider. But we are undergoing already, some painful situation working day and night. To satisfy the senses that also requires tapasya, hard labor, but here Ṛṣabhadeva says that you accept some painful condition. It is not at all painful, but it appears. Tapo divyam, for God realization. [break] ...that everyone is working hard day and night, but that is for sense gratification. Similarly, if you take little trouble, if you accept voluntarily some painful condition for realizing God, divyam, that is the human mission. Now the question may be raised that both ways I have to accept some painful situation, so why shall I accept painful situation for realizing God? For material sense gratification, although I am working very hard, I am getting, immediately, some pleasure, sense pleasure. So why shall I work hard or accept some painful situation for realizing God which is unknown and fictitious to me? So the reply is, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1], "My dear boys, if you accept a little trouble for realizing God, then your existential condition will be purified."

*What is the use of purifying? There is need. If you purify, purify yourself, existentional condition, then you will be saved from the four kinds of troubles or miseries of life, namely birth, death, old age and disease. So God realization means spiritual realization. So Ṛṣabhadeva says tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed [SB 5.5.1], by purification of your existentional condition you enjoy brahma*-saukhyam. After all, we are searching after happiness, pleasure. So on account of our impure existential condition, our so-called happiness is temporary. Brahma-saukhyam means, here again, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed, when your existence is purified. Now we have got impure existence, this material body. When we get our spiritual body, that is called purified. So Ṛṣabhadeva says sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. As soon as you get your spiritual body, then there is unlimited happiness. We are, after all... In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that the living entity or God, both of them are for enjoying life, blissful life. Just like when you are diseased, you have got some fever. So, you cannot enjoy life. Similarly in this diseased condition of material existence we, actually, we cannot enjoy life. Therefore, if we purify our existential condition by tapasya, then we come into our spiritual existence and we can enjoy our life eternally. [break] ...therefore, that when we have got this human form of life, we shall not waste it simply for sense gratification like the dogs and hog. We should practice tapasya, restrain, and then we purify our existence and we are situated in a position wherein we can enjoy blissful life forever.

*Now the process is prescribed how to execute this tapasya life. Ṛṣabhadeva says, mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes, to get liberation, liberated from this entanglement of material life, one has to serve mahat, great saintly person. [break] Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2], vimukteḥ means for liberation. If you want to get liberation from this material bondage, repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease, and not only that, so long we live there are so many miserable conditions of life. This is called material existence. If we want to get out of this entanglement, then we must take to the service of great saintly personalities. So, that is the way for liberation, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. There are two, just like we are in the crossroad, which way we shall go? That can be understood in this human form of life. This human form of life, we have come to this point by evolution. Now we are on the, just on the crossroad, whether we shall go this way or that way. If we want to be free from the entanglement of material misery, then here it is recommended, mahat-sevām. We must render service to the holy, saintly person and if you want to go deeper and deeper in the darkest region of existence, then we should turn our face for sense gratification.

*So the instruction is very long, so (to) make it shorter I beg to inform you that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save person from going to the way of darkness. [break] ...go farther and farther on the path of darkness we become more and more entangled. More entanglement means: there are 8,400,000 forms of body. So after death we have to accept another body. [break] ...in the Bhagavad*-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13], as we are passing from one body to another in this life... I was a child, you were a child, everyone, but that child body is no more existing. I am existing in a different body, and I have to pass through many different bodies. So this is also dehāntara-prāptiḥ, changing the body. So similarly after death we shall change the body. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ means to accept another body. Now as I have already said, there are 8,400,000 forms of bodies. So we have to accept one of them at the time of death on the basis of our mental condition. So if we are accustomed to the beastly mentality like dogs and hog, then naturally we are going to get such body. But if we practice during this life, human form of life, while we are intelligent enough, godly life, then you are going back to home, back to Godhead. It is up to us to decide whether we are going to the dogly life or Godly life, that is our choice. According to the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, he says that this human form of life is a chance to practice Godly life and go back to home, back to Godhead. (aside:) What is the time now?

Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Devotee: Should we ask for questions?



*Prabhupāda: So we are in the juncture. Now it is up to us to decide whether we are going back again to the cycle of birth and death, from one body to another, or go back to home, back to Godhead, attain eternal body, blissful life. So the path is described very distinctly, mahat*-sevaṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. If you want to get out of this entanglement, then we must associate with saintly personalities. [break] ...to go back in the cycle of birth and death, then we may associate with person who are addicted to sense gratification. So now there are description, very long description, who is saintly person, who is not saintly persons, so it will take much time.



*We should request you, we have opened this branch of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement just to give chance to everyone to come here and associate with the saintly devotees, and make your life very successful. I shall finish this lecture by reading one line only. The symptoms of saintly person is given, mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye. Who is saintly personality? That is given here, mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ. Sama-cittāḥ means they are equipoised, means they're not agitated by the worldly activities. That means, it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. This, one of the qualification is sama-cittāḥ, not disturbed by worldly activities, because in the worldly activities either you make some profit or you make some loss. So our position is when we get some profit we are very jubilant, but when we are losing something we are very morose, unhappy. But a mahānta is equipoised. He is neither very happy when he makes profit, neither at all sorry when he makes losses. This is the first sign. Mahat-sevam, mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā. Praśāntā means very peaceful. This is another qualification. Mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā, vimanyavaḥ, he is never angry. Suhṛdaḥ, and he's a well-wisher. He's well-wisher not only for the human beings, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29], for all living entities. Like this person just, who are very friendly to the human being, but they sell the poor animals to the slaughter-house. Saintly person. Saintly person is suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, for all living entities he's friend. Suhṛdaḥ and sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ means well-behaved. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣanāḥ, well-behaved. The well-behavior is described in the śāstra, to become a devotee of the Lord. [break] ...of saintly person is to become devotee of the Lord. [break] ...finish this now. You can ask if you have got any questions.

Jyotirmayī: He's asking what does it mean to serve God?



Prabhupāda: Help what?



Jyotirmayī: What does it mean...



Yogeśvara: Serve God. What it means to serve Him.



Prabhupāda: You do not know the meaning of serving?



Jyotirmayī: So, he said, yeah I know what it means service. Service means that I must do something good...



Prabhupāda: Yes!



Jyotirmayī: ...to someone. But what does that mean to serve God? If you are not able to do it, what exactly, why do we have to do it?



*Prabhupāda: No, you can do it. As you are serving your country, your family, or your friend. You are serving already. It is not that you are not serving. Similarly, you can serve God. Just like, we find from Bhagavad*-gītā, Arjuna. Arjuna served God, Kṛṣṇa. He was a military man. So he was engaged in fighting. Kṛṣṇa wanted him to fight for His interest, so he fought. That is service to God. Every position, as you are serving your country, your family, your friend, you can serve God also. [break] ...show you the example in every center, what we are doing. We are glorifying the Lord. We are preaching God's glory. We are publishing book for understanding God. We are cooking for feeding God. So many, all our activities are meant for serving the Lord, that's all.



Jyotirmayī: So his question is, if we glorify God every day, all the time, then is God going to give us something back, something in return for our service?



Prabhupāda: God is already giving you everything. (laughter). Even if you do not serve. He is so kind that even those who are not serving, He is supplying all the necessities. So when you serve God, whatever you want you will get.



Jyotirmayī: He says, so the service that we offer now, are we going to get it back in another life?



Prabhupāda: No, in this life. Just like we, we are serving God, we have no profession, we have no business, we have no income, but Kṛṣṇa is supplying all the necessities of life. Paying for this house two thousand dollars per month. We have got one hundred such centers. We are spending about one million dollars per month (laughter), but we have no fixed income. Kṛṣṇa is supplying.



Jyotirmayī: He said, so I can understand that it's really God helps you.



Prabhupāda: Now you can understand by common sense that if you serve somebody here, in this material world, he pays you some money, salary, and God is all powerful. If you serve Him, He'll not pay you? No problem. God is paying everyone, one who is not serving even. If you serve, He'll pay you sufficiently, don't bother.



Jyotirmayī: She says she thinks that we are a little exploiting God...



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Jyotirmayī: Exploiting God.



Yogeśvara: Exploiting God, she thinks...



Prabhupāda: No, you should not approach for exploiting God. That is not good. But even if you go to God to exploit Him, that is also good. (laughter) Stop, stop. Because after all you are approaching God. Even with the purpose of exploitation, that is not good, but because you are reaching God that is very good. Just like in Christian religion we know that the prayer is "God, give us our daily bread." So God is supplying bread to everyone. It doesn't require to ask Him. But, he, because he is going to the church, and praying to the God, he is very good.



Jyotirmayī: She says that to ask like the Christian asking for their daily bread, it is something very difficult, very painful, so it is very tragical.



Prabhupāda: No, these things are done by innocent person. One who does not know that God, without asking, He's supplying. There is no need of asking from God. Simply we have to render our service. The definition of devotional service is given in the Vedic literature, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Brs. 1.1.11], without any material desire. Serve God as a matter of duty. We serve our father as a matter of duty and the father takes care of the son, automatically. [break] ...does not serve father, he gives all necessities of life and what to speak of that son who is rendering service. [break]



Guest: ...serve God for our own religion besides chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, besides becoming a devotee?



Prabhupāda: Yes, religion means to serve God. We are preaching that anyone who has learned how to serve God, how to love God, he belongs to first class religion. [break] ...care what is the name of that religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mohammedanism, it doesn't matter. We see, we want to see the follower, whether he has learned to serve God, and to love God. That's it.



Jyotirmayī: So the question is that there was, a man was working a house yesterday, and he was killed doing his work, and he left his wife and two children, and this man was praying God every day. So what is going to happen now to them?



Prabhupāda: His children will not die for want of her. [break] ...maintaining millions and millions of children, why not her?



Jyotirmayī: We saw that in India the people are not chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, now very poor, now dying of anger, oh, hunger, but there is those who are very rich, they are not religious at all. They do not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, but are very rich and they enjoy very much.



Prabhupāda: Yes, but those who are chanting, they are not dying (laughter). I am Indian. I am not dying.



Guest: I am Indian. I am coming from Calcutta, from the (indistinct). I am seeing every day. This is the first time...



Prabhupāda: But you do not know who are chanting.



Guest: Yes I know, I went...



Prabhupāda: No, that's not, that I cannot accept.



Guest: Yes, yes.



Prabhupāda: Those who are chanting, we have got branch in Calcutta, in Māyāpur, in Bombay, in Vṛndāvana. None of our devotees are dying.



Guest: But I regret to say that in Māyāpur, in Navadvīpa also I saw there poor people dying.



Prabhupāda: Uh huh. You...



Guest: ...myself constructing...



Prabhupāda: So you simply inspect all the persons who are dying. You do not see who are living. [break] ...were in India, I asked the people here, we have got so many devotees in Europe, who is dying? Nobody is dying. It is simply propaganda.



Guest: I know nothing about Europe. This is the first time I'm coming to Europe, I know the problem. I was always in...



Prabhupāda: But you are wrong informed. You are talking from Europe about India.



Guest: No, I was in India about one month ago and...



Prabhupāda: But what is one month's experience, you have simply seen persons who are dying, that's all.



Guest: I am from Calcutta. I teach in Calcutta. I live in Calcutta. I am always in Bengal.



Prabhupāda: So you have seen that all Calcutta men are dying?



Guest: Yes, poor people are dying.



Prabhupāda: Ah, this is all lying propaganda. I don't believe it. I am also there. I am born in Calcutta.



Guest: I am not saying anything to contradict you, just explain to me...



Prabhupāda: No, there is no contradiction. I am speaking that God is feeding even the animals, even the elephants, even the serpents, and why God will not feed the human kind. This is a wrong impression. Everyone has food fixed by God. Even if he is not serving God, God is supplying all the necessities, to the animals why not to the human being? This is wrong impression. [break] Yes? [break]



Jyotirmayī (translating for Guest): ...that at the beginning one, the word, and this word was God and this word was with God. So what is this word?



Prabhupāda: God, God and God's word. They're identical. God's, God and God's form, God's quality. God's, I mean to say, entourage, everything is God. That is called absolute. As, when I speak, my speaking is different from me, so that is not the case with God. God's words, the vibration of God, that is also God. [break]



Jyotirmayī: ...name of God, can the name of God be pronounced, uttered?



Prabhupāda: Yes, why not.



Jyotirmayī: God was existing before we could utter, we could pronounce, so how can you...



Prabhupāda: So God, because existing, His name was also existing. Therefore, His name is not material name. Because God was existing, His name was existing. So God was existing before creation, therefore His name, His form, is not material.



Jyotirmayī: (If the) name of God is not material, how is it possible to pronounce it materially, with our material tongue?



Prabhupāda: Yes, it is possible, when you are purified.



Guest: Has God put the suffering here for us to experience so that we will want to give up material lives and get closer to Him? Is it punishment?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Jyotirmayī: Is the God of love, does He punish man?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. God has got two business. Maintenance and punishment. That is stated in Bhagavad*-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. That the government has got the law to give protection to the obedient citizens, and to send the rascals to the prison house.



Jyotirmayī: She said that these laws, these laws are only laws which exist in the human world, but that God doesn't lave these lews.



*Prabhupāda: Human laws are imitation of God's laws. In the Vedānta*-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The absolute truth is that from where everything emanates. So this human law has come from God. It is only imitation, imperfectly presented, but the principle is the same. [break]



*Guest: Who is Guru Maharaj*-ji? (laughter)



Prabhupāda: I do not know him. (laughter). [break]



Jyotirmayī: ...chant Hare Kṛṣṇa with also Hare Rāma. Why are we talking about the Rāma in this mantra?



Prabhupāda: Rāma is also God, another name of God. Rāma means the "who enjoys." Kṛṣṇa means "who attracts." So God is the supreme enjoyer, therefore He is called Rāma. And God is the supreme attractor. He attracts everyone, therefore He is called Kṛṣṇa. So the names are on the quality of God. You have already questioned. Yes.



Devotee: There's a gentleman in the back, over there. [break]



Jyotirmayī: ...to know, that to explain exactly what is materialistic life, and how is it possible to be in the world of matter and the same time not be entangled by it?



Yogeśvara: What is material life and how can we live in this material...



Prabhupāda: Material life means no knowledge of God, no service of God. That is material life.



Yogeśvara: He wants to know how can we live in this material world without becoming entangled.



Prabhupāda: That he cannot know, God, by living here. You are trying to know so many things, why don't you try to know God? Material life means one who does not know God, one who does not serve God. These are the two things. So if you know God and if you serve God, that is not material life. So if you try to know God, and if you serve God, that is not material life. [break]



Guest: ...to know the will of God.



*Prabhupāda: You want to know? That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], you give up all other occupation, simply surrender unto Him. That's all. This is the way. (end)





730907SB.STO

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1-2

-

Stockholm, September 7, 197



Prabhupāda:



ṛṣabha uvāca

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



*So uktam evāha ṛṣabhām iti. We are discussing about the instruction of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. Tad uktam upayinona bhāgavata upāsanam upadeśa upadekṣamana vairāgyaṁ vinā upadeṣṭo 'pi bhakti*-yoga na samyak pratitiṣṭhati tad utpadaye kāmān nindati nāyam etad dvayam. This is a note given by Bhiraghavācārya. He belongs to the Rāmānuja sampradāya. We have got four disciplic succession: Madhvācārya's sampradāya or succession, Rāmānujācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and..., what is the other? Nimbārka. So Bhiraghavācārya belongs to the Rāmānuja disciplic succession. He was a very famous man, ācārya. So he says that bhāgavata upāsanam upadekṣyamāna vairāgyaṁ vinā upadiṣṭo 'pi bhakti-yoga na samyak pratitiṣṭhati. We may give instruction for many years, but unless one practices vairāgya, renunciation, vairāgya vinā...



*This bhakti*-yoga, another name is vairāgya-yoga. That is pointed out by Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. When he offered his prayer to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu he said,

*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*sri*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*He said that this Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the same Lord Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa advised, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This sarva-dharmān includes all our material activities. So, but people could not understand. The instruction is still standing, Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya, "Just simply surrender unto Me." But nobody is doing that. God says that, "You surrender unto Me; *I shall give you all protection." There is assurance. But we are so unfortunate that we cannot believe or cannot be assured on the words of God also. We do not believe. "Oh, God cannot give us protection. Let me try my own technology. I shall protect myself." This is the world(?). That means he's not detached with these material activities. Kṛṣṇa says also that "You give up..." Just like we are also saying. There are so many proposals. They come, philanthropists: "People are starving. We have to see first of all." The Communists say, "Then we can discuss about spiritual... There are so many people starving," as if they have taken contract for feeding them. But these are only simply big, big words. They cannot do anything. Neither they are willing. They are simply after their own sense gratification. Otherwise, why so many people all over the world, there is voluntary starving? Just like the hippies. Why they are lying down on the street, on the park, no fixed*-up program for eating, sleeping? They are not poor men's sons.



So, nature's way will work. You cannot stop them. But because they cannot give up attachment for these material activities, they put some manifesto, that "We are not working for this. After finishing this task, then we shall take to the consideration of spiritual life." So this is called will o' the wisp. What is that, will o' the wisp? There is a fire, and the fire goes ahead, and the man follows. It is something like that. They cannot do anything. Actually, they have got attachment for these material activities, and they put forward different types of manifesto. But if one is serious about going back to home, back to Godhead... First of all, they have no such information that there is a place where God lives. They think it is all fictitious. (So) why it is fictitious? If you accept there is God, why, what is the objection to accept a place for Him? We have got our place, we have got our residential quarter, and God has provided us all these facilities, and He has no facility? He is impersonal? He has no place? Just see.

*So, these things cannot be understood by the materialistic person. Therefore, one has to practice vairāgya, renunciation. That is pointed out here. Bhāgavata upāsanam upadekṣyamāna vairāgyaṁ vinā upadiṣṭo 'pi bhakti*-yoga na samyag pratitiṣṭhati iti. Side by side we have to practice, voluntarily, to be detached from material activities. Then we can make progress in devotional service. Tad utpataya kāmān mindati. This is our voluntary work. If we want to be detached... Because Kṛṣṇa is so kind, if you have got even a little pinch of attachment for this material world, you are not allowed to enter into the kingdom of God. You must be completely free. Therefore, bhakti-yoga is enunciated by Rūpa Goswami: anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Śūnyam means zero. All kinds of material desires should be made into zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jñāna, speculative method for understanding the Absolute Truth, as the Māyāvādīs, they are speculating, "This is not, this is not, this is not." Neti neti. This is jñāna.

And karma means they are not struggling hard to enjoy the fruitive result, as we see generally everywhere, they are working so hard. Big, big buildings, big, big factories, big, big roads, cities, so many things. They are trying to be happy by such advancement of material opulence. They are called karmī. Some of them are trying to be happy within this material, within this world or within this life, and there are others also, they are also performing big, big yajñas, charities, so that next life they may also take birth in very nice family or may be elevated to the higher planetary system where the standard of life is thousand times better than here. There is all arrangement. So they are trying for that. Not only to become very bodily happy in this life, but also next life. But as there is difficulty... Suppose if you want to be happy materially, then... You see how they are working very hard. They have no time. In the morning, at half past five, we go for morning walk, we see, workers are going. At night... You Europeans, you know better than me how they are working very, very hard. What is the idea? To become happy. To satisfy the senses. Similarly, there are others who know that there is life after death. So they are also preparing how "Next life also we'll be happy, we may take birth in very rich family, in higher planet, in heavenly planet."

So this hard labor is going on. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that this hard labor should be stopped. There is no need of so much hard labor. Why you should work so hard? This such kind of hard labor is seen amongst the animals. There are animals, just like we saw one jackal was passing on the street. So they come out in the night, some of the animals, especially ferocious animals. They come out at night for their food. Everyone is working hard; *they also come. So animals also, they (are) also working very hard. That is given example, the hogs and dogs. That is restricted. If you go on working for better standard of life, then you'll be attached to this work and your mind will be absorbed in such work. And if the mind continues to be absorbed in working so hard, then after giving up this body, you'll have to accept another body to fulfill such desires within the mind. Kṛṣṇa will give you full facility. Therefore it is said, deha*-bhṛtān madhye (ja) nṛ-loka manuṣyaḥ tasmin sattvāyaṁ manuṣyaḥ deha kaṣṭān kṛcchran sampādyamānam ata duḥkha-rūpaṁ kāmān yajñādini. Yajñādini prati na hati. Kāmān anubhāvituṁ nārhati ity artha.

Ṛṣabhadeva says that simply for sense gratification, don't work so much. Actually, we haven't got to work. Everything is there. We have repeatedly discussed. Just like in the morning the birds get up, they do not work very hard. They know that "We shall go in some, upon some tree, and there is food, there is some fruit, and we shall eat." There is no, no good prob..., very great problem. The animals also, they are assured, everyone is assured. And even human being, just like sannyāsīs, they are also assured. Just like when I came to your country, there was no friend, there was no relative, but assurance was there that "I am going for Kṛṣṇa's business. So there is some provision, never mind where it is." That much faith we must have. Actually, for even one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, one is not devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he has also provision. That provision is there. Why should we work so hard? Our business is to save time how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But people cannot understand this.

*Now, how to become detached from this habit of hard working, that is suggested here. It is said, mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. Mahat-sevā, saintly persons, if you associate with them, if you serve them, try to serve them, that practice is still in India. If a sannyāsī, you'll find from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is going from village to village, but any village he goes... Generally, the sannyāsī goes to a temple because temple is meant for the traveling sannyāsī. And as soon as one sannyāsī... Still this custom is prevalent in India, as soon as somebody sees a sannyāsī has come in a temple, somebody from the village, not somebody, but many will come, "Sir, you can take your lunch at my place." So there is no scarcity. Many people will come to invite you still. Therefore many pseudo or phony swamis, they have taken this profession because there is no difficulty getting food. So, mahat-sevā. The... What is the idea? The idea is the gṛhasthas, they know that "We are simply engaged in the matter of sense gratification. If we invite some saintly person at home, if he eats at my place, then, we commit so many sinful activities, we'll be saved." This is the process. Therefore, a sannyāsī is advised to accept prasādam in the house of a brāhmaṇa, because a brāhmaṇa is supposed to be, become very pious. If you take foodstuff from impious men, then that means you are taking share of his impious activities. But a saintly person, they can digest, but if (they) cannot digest, then you have to suffer. This is the process. Then he has to suffer. Therefore the safety principle is to accept luncheon in a pious family, where there is Vaiṣṇava family or brāhmaṇa family. Not that anywhere we can accept cooked food. Sometimes we have to do it, but that is against principle. We should not accept food anywhere and everywhere, unless he is pious. The brāhmaṇas are supposed to be pious; therefore, a sannyāsī is advised to accept food, luncheon in the brāhmaṇa family. And brāhmaṇa family, still, not all, a few families still in India, they worship regularly Nārāyaṇa-śilā, śalagrāma-śilā.

*Therefore one should be anxious to give some service to the saintly persons. Mahat*-sevā dvāram. If you engage yourself how to serve a saintly person, then your door for going back to Godhead will gradually become open. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. This human body is a junction. You can go this way or you can go that way. This way means mahat-sevā, liberation. But people do not understand what is liberation. They are so dull. They have been... Their education system is so rubbish that they do not know what is liberation. Just like cats and dogs, they do not know what is liberation. Liberation means to get out of this false conditional life. I'm thinking I'm this body, which I'm not, and therefore I'm acting on the bodily concept of life and becoming entangled more and more so that I have to accept another body, another body, another body. This is my conditional state of life, and there is so much risk to accept another body. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. You have to accept another body. And what kind of body I'm going to get, that I do not know. Now suppose if I get another body in the plant life, a tree. A tree can stand for thousands of years. And if we get that sort of life, how much risky it is to accept another body. It is also possible. Those who are performing big, big yajñas, charity, they can expect to be transferred to the heavenly planet. But those who are not doing anything, living like cats and dogs, oh, their life is very risky. Very risky. But they do not know. There is no such education. But here it is recommended, that, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur. If you associate with saintly persons then there is possibility of your door being opened for liberation. Dvāram āhur vimuktes.

*(So) we are opening many centers all over the world. Why? To give people chance of having this association of a Vaiṣṇava, mahat, mahātmā. Therefore those who are in charge of such centers, they must be ideal mahātmās. Mahātmā means devotees. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya*-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā means whose ātmā, whose soul is enaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. He's mahātmā. Otherwise kṣūdrātmā. God is all-pervading. So whose ātmā has become attached to the all-pervading Supersoul, he's called mahātmā. Otherwise, kṣūdrātmā. If we are, our heart is attached to limited circle of my friends, wife, children, home, country, then I am kṣūdrātmā, because that is limited. Kṣūdrātmā or durātmā. The opposite is mahātmā. Mahan, great. So we have to associate with mahātmā. Mahat-sevā. How associate? Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34], to associate. Therefore, it is the custom whenever one goes to see one saintly person, he gives something for service, either fruits or something presentation. That is necessary. Mahat-sevā it is said. Sevā means service. Maha-sevā. Not that I go to see one mahātmā, saintly person, and talk with him with all rascal proposal, and waste his time and his own time also. That is not association of the mahātmā. Mahat sevā. You must approach a saintly person to give him some service. This is the beginning. Spiritual advancement of life means you have to give some service. That service begins when we serve the representative of Kṛṣṇa, mahātmā. He's spiritual master or saintly person.

*So mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. And just the opposite number is, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Yoṣit. Yoṣit means enjoyable, female, or prakṛti. The nature has made in such a way that the male form, or female form, that attracts, that is called yosit. There are so many things for our attraction, not that simply woman is attractive. No. Woman is a form. Rūpa, rasa, śabda, gandha, sparśa, this is called the tāṇ-mātra, enjoying... We have got senses, so there must be object of enjoyment of the senses. The eyes, they have got also the object of sense gratification. The eyes want to see very beautiful forms. Eyes, rūpa. Rūpa means form. And the tongue, it wants to enjoy very good taste, tasty food. So that is also enjoyment. Not that simply woman is for enjoyment. Any palatable foodstuff which attracts my tongue, that is also enjoyment.(?) Mahat-sevāṁ tamo-dvāram yoṣitā... These are yoṣit. A nice beautiful woman or man which attracts, a nice foodstuff which attracts my tongue, rūpa, rasa, śabda, nice singing which attracts my ear... Rūpa, rasa, śabda, gandha, smelling, which attracts my nostril. Rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśa, touching. So these are all subject matter for my enjoyment, objectives. So tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Those who are attached only, the general public, they are attached to all these things. They are going to cinema, they are drinking wine, they are going to restaurant for satisfaction of the tongue, clubs, and talking, so many things. So those who are attached to all these things for sense gratification, if we associate with such persons, then our door for going to hell is open. Two doors. You have to make selection. Whether this door for becoming liberated from this entanglement of repetition of birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead, this is one door. Another door, for sense gratification. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram [SB 7.5.30]. The more we indulge in sense gratification, then more, more, more... Just like a drunkard. From the very beginning he's not a big drunkard. He takes little, then big, big bottles, big, big bottles. It is simply... Smoking, when the child learns from bad association to smoke, then he become a chain smoker, one after another, one after another, one after another.

*So if we indulge in sense gratification, then it will increase, it will increase. And more we increase the process of sense gratification, we go down, deeper, deeper, into the hellish condition of life. Just like the other day I was talking with Mr. Berman, he's a mining engineer. So I talked with him that "You have spent so much time being educated as mining engineer..." It is very good technology he has learned. "But do you ever consider that what is your position? After taking so much education, learning technology, your place is in the dark mines, your place. Whole day you have to work within this darkness. And you are considered to be very expert, and you are getting good salary, but your place is in the dark mine. Why don't you...?" Similarly, his wife, she's a qualified gynecologist. So what is her business? Her business is how to kill the child within the womb*-abortion. Just see. Both are experts. One expert is engaged in the hellish condition of the mine, in darkness; *another expert is engaged in killing small babies within the womb. You see? Therefore the result will be that they are going to hell. Adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Again doing the same thing, again going to the hellish condition of life. This is called tamo-dvāram, ignorance. Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam.

*Therefore, to make advancement in spiritual life one must be serious to practice vairāgya. Tapasya, that is tapasya. If you practice vairāgya, deny, "No, I shall not eat these things, I shall not drink these things, I shall not do like this," abnegation*-that we have to practice. That we have to practice. But although it is very difficult, so far we are concerned, we have made the things very concise. Simply, just observe the four regulative principles-no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, and no intoxication. This much we have to practice if we are actually serious to go..., advance in spiritual life. This is vairāgya, voluntarily. What is the difficulty? You want sex life, why don't you live, husband and wife, married? Sex life is not denied, but not outside the marriage. That is denied. A little vairāgya. But we have made such a civilization that no responsibility for marriage. Let the girls become prostitutes and enjoy and go away. Horrible civilization. They are going towards hell, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. But they do not know. Neither do they care. It is very serious situation of the present civilization. If we think... One who does not know, he's in darkness, that is a different thing. But especially in the Western countries I see that poor girls are being advertised for prostitution. What is that? Topless? Yes. Topless, bottomless and so many things. You see. Purposefully, poor girls are being utilized for sense gratification. So horrible condition. And when there is pregnancy, then abortion, then further entanglement, further...

*So this is the way to go to the darkest region of hellish condition of life. Sense gratification. So one has to avoid this. Mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes, and the tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Not only you directly make all these thing then you are condemned to go to the hellish condition; *if you associate with such person, then also you'll be liable. If you associate. Just like some rascals they say, "Yes, we are eating meat, but we are not directly killing. We purchase." They think that "Let me enjoy meat-eating. Those who are killing in the slaughterhouse, they will be responsible. I am free." No. Because you are associating with such persons, according to Manu-saṁhitā when an animal is killed, eight persons become condemned with murdering charges. Eight persons. One who kills, one who orders, one who purchases, one who cooks, one who eats-so many. That is the law. Just like one man is murdered. That murdering is committed by one man, but if has got many associates who has induced him, who has supplied him the weapon, or giving, so many assisted*-all of them are arrested. This is the law. As we have got law here, here we can escape man-made laws, but you cannot escape God-made laws. That is not possible. Man-made laws sometimes we escape because everything made by man, that is insufficient, imperfect. So you can escape sometimes. That is not escaping. But you cannot escape God's law. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. God is situated within your heart. He's seeing everything and recording. Anumantā upadraṣṭā, you cannot escape.

So these things are very important thing if we're actually serious about becoming disentangled with this material world and go back to home, back to..., then this instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva is very important. We shall discuss again.

Thank you very much. (end)



770325SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1-2

-

Bombay, March 25, 1977



Bhavānanda:



ṛṣabha uvāca

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



"Lord Ṛṣabhadeva told His sons: My dear boys, of all the living entities who have accepted material bodies in this world, one who has been awarded this human form should not work hard day and night simply for sense gratification, which is available even for dogs and hogs that eat stool. One should engage in penance and austerity to attain the divine position of devotional service. By such activity, one's heart is purified, and when one attains this position, he attains eternal, blissful life, which is transcendental to material happiness and which continues forever."



Prabhupāda: Next verse.



Bhavānanda:



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



"One can attain the path of liberation from material bondage only by rendering service to highly advanced spiritual personalities. These personalities are impersonalists and devotees. Whether one wants to merge into the Lord's existence or wants to associate with the Personality of Godhead, one should render service to the mahātmās. For those who are not interested in such activities, who associate with people fond of women and sex, the path to hell is wide open. The mahātmās are equipoised. They do not see any difference between one living entity and another. They are very peaceful and are fully engaged in devotional service. They are devoid of anger, and they work for the benefit of everyone. They do not behave in any abominable way. Such people are known as mahātmās."



*Prabhupāda: So Mr. Jyesthish(?) Gandhi, ladies and gentlemen, the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva is very important. Ṛṣabhadeva was the father of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. So before retirement, Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His one hundred sons about the aim of life. So this is Vedic civilization. So He says, "My dear boys, don't spoil your life by living like hogs." This very word has been used. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujāṁ. Viḍ-bhujāṁ means there are hogs who are very much enthusiastic to eat stool. So why this particular animal has been named? Because we can find especially in Indian villages, the hogs, day and night, they are working very hard to find out where there is stool. And as soon as he eats stool, the hog very easily become fatty and strong. Therefore a class of men, they like to eat the flesh of hog because it becomes easily fatty. And the hog's business is, as soon as he gets little strength, then next business is sex, without any discrimination. The hog has no discrimination who is sister, who is mother, who is daughter. So therefore this particular animal has been named, and Ṛṣabhadeva warns His sons that "Don't live the life of hogs. Live like human being."



That is wanted. And for that purpose you require to execute tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena va [SB 6.1.13]. These are the injunction of the śāstras. Human life is meant for tapasya, not to imitate the hogs and dogs. This is not human life. This is Vedic culture. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is tryng to give this Vedic culture all over the world, but they are after hogs and dogs. What can be done? This is very difficult job. But still we have to do, because we have placed ourself to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. Never mind we have to face so many dangerous positions; *still we have to do this thankless task. "My dear brothers, do not be hogs and dogs. Be a saintly person." This is our mission. That is India's culture. Bhagavad*-gītā, the same thing said: manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhi. Siddhi means perfection. Nobody is interested how to make this life perfect. Everyone is being carried away by the waves of material nature. This is not life. Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, a Bengali Vaiṣṇava poet, he has written one song, kena māyāra vaśe yāccha bhese kāccha hābu ḍubu bhāi. Jīva kṛṣṇadāsa ei viśvāsa korleto ār duḥkha nai. Māyāra vaśe. There is the laws of nature. We are under the grip of laws of nature. You cannot violate. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. If you have touched fire, it doesn't matter whether you are elderly person or a child, innocent or knowingly or unknowingly, the fire must burn. There is no excuse. Similarly, we are contaminating different types of modes of nature. There are three modes of material nature-sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Now mix it up, three into three equal to nine, nine into nine it becomes eighty-one. Again eighty-one... It increases. Those who are expert in mixing color, they know how to make different colors by mixing the original three colors: blue, yellow and red. Similarly, we are in this material world under the clutches of the modes of material nature, and according to different circumstances we are mixing with different modes of nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Because we are mixing with different types of material nature, next life we are preparing. Tatha dehāntara praptir. We have to accept another body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. This is our position. Don't be very happy that "Today I am such and such big person. It will continue." No, sir, it will not continue. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You have to change your body.

*So we have to understand this responsibility of life. That is human life*-not to enjoy senses by imitating the hogs and dogs. This is not human civilization. We have to learn from the śāstras how our life is being transformed from one form to another, and there are 8,400,000 different species of life. Once this human form of life missed and if you are put into these waves of birth and death, then the opportunity finished. We must always be alert that we have got this responsibility. The Ṛṣabhadeva says that tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1]. Sattva means existence. Your existence is eternal. That is the first information in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. This is the first instruction. There are so many commentator or instructor of Bhagavad-gītā, but they are missing the first instruction. They are not interested that "What is going to happen my next life?" They are not interested. Nobody takes care. They have concluded they have no life after death. This body is finished, everything is finished. Most irresponsible life. This is not to be carried on. Ṛṣabhadeva says that "My dear sons, don't live this irresponsible life like animals, hogs and dogs, but take the responsibility of human life. Undergo austerities, penances, as they ae recommended in the śāstras and make your life..." It is individual. If this movement cannot be taken massively, every individual can practice it. That is Indian culture. Every Indian was educated how to become a brāhmaṇa, for coming to this platform of austerity. And following the examples of brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya and the vaiśyas and the śūdras, they also benefited.

*So this is a very elaborate scientific subject matter, and we are trying to present all over the world. Why not our Indian brothers take it very seriously? Why we should be carried away by the waves of material nature? This is not very good idea. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1]. Sattva, my existence. At the present moment... Just like I am coughing. So because I am, for the present moment, I am diseased. So this is the symptom of coughing. Similarly, why I am dying? This should be the question. Ke āmi kena more jāpaṭiyā traya. I hear from Bhagavad*-gītā that I am eternal: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. Then why I am dying? This is intelligence. Why I am dying? This "why." Kena Upaniṣad. But this is not being educated. We are carried away by the temporary problems and missing the chance of human life. This is not very good, and Ṛṣabhadeva especially instructs that mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. If you actually want liberation from these clutches of māyā, vimukti, vimukti... Vimukti means liberation. What is liberation? Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa avasthitiḥ. We are living in a different way. This is not mukti. This is conditioned. I am living as Indian condition, I am living as European condition. This is not mukti. You must live in your original form. That is called mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpam. Now we are living anyathā rūpam. Somebody is living as Indian, somebody is living as European, somebody as cat, somebody as dog, somebody... This is anyathā rūpam. You must realize yourself,

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate param

[Bg. 18.54]



*So Dr. Jyestish(?) gave stress on bhakti. That is very good idea. So simply by becoming bhakta... Kevalayā... Kecid kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva*-parayaṇaḥ. Kevalayā bhakta. Simply if you take to the process of bhakti... That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā also. Bhaktyā mām abhijānanti. If you want to know God, if you want to know the relationship with God, if you know what is your business after understanding God, then bhakti. Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa, no... Although there are different ways of self-realization-karma, jñāna, yoga, bhakti, these are the principles. But Kṛṣṇa recommends that "If you want to know Me actually, then bhaktyā." Kṛṣṇa teaches Arjuna Bhagavad-gītā because Arjuna was a devotee. Bhakto 'si me priyo 'si: [Bg. 4.3] "Because you are My dear friend and bhakta, therefore I am teaching you."



*So bhakti*-mārga is not very difficult. Very easy. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Any child can do it. Any child, if he sees the form of Lord Kṛṣṇa in the temple, he remembers, and he continues to think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. And if you think of Kṛṣṇa always, automatically you become devotee. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. And then mad-yājī, little offering. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Where is the difficulty? Little flower, little fruit, little water. Kṛṣṇa is not poor person, (that) He wants something from you. But yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. He wants to revive your original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore He comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. So in India we have got this opportunity. Why should we miss this opportunity? It is a suicidal policy. Don't do it. Take to it very seriously.

Thank you very much.

Devotee: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda!



*Tamāla*-kṛṣṇa: If anyone has any questions, this is the time. The process of receiving knowledge is to place inquiry at the perfect person, the spiritual master. So if any of you have any questions, there will be a microphone up front, and you can come up and place your questions to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (no one responds)



Prabhupāda: All right. Don't try to agitate them. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, they are coming?



Guest (1): If God is everywhere, why His presence not felt by everybody?



Prabhupāda: Everybody is not intelligent. Mostly they are rascals.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



This is the statement by God, that "Out of millions and millions of persons, one tries to become perfect. And out of many millions of perfect persons, one may understand God." So God understanding is not so easy, but if we want to understand, God will help us. That is the point.



Guest (1): Thank you.



Guest (2): I want to ask two separate questions. One question is number one. What is the meaning of the giving up of the fruition of action?



*Prabhupāda: Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. This is the... Action and reaction, there are two things. But under both headings, action and reaction means you become bound up. Yajñārthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma*-bandhanam. This is the statement, that if you work if you work for yajña... Yajña means Viṣṇu. Then it is all right. Otherwise you become under the laws of karma, good or bad. You have to suffer or enjoy. There is no question of enjoyment; there is suffering. Therefore one should be taught not to accept the result of karma, but do it for Kṛṣṇa, yajñārthe. Then you are free.



Guest (2): When the fruit comes, should we give it up?



*Prabhupāda: No. The fruit you can take as prasādam. Prasāde sarve*-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. When you take as prasādam, then you are not bound up. But if you enjoy it as your fruitive result, then you have to suffer or enjoy. That is not good.



Guest (2): We have that difficult with us.



Prabhupāda: No difficulty.



Guest (2): Because when the fruit comes, we cannot distinguish whether it is ripened one or the wrong one. How to distinguish?



Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is said clearly, yajñārthe. You work for yajña. Kṛṣṇārthe. Yajña, another name of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Then it is all right. Otherwise you will have to suffer.



Guest (2): My next question is...



Prabhupāda: First of all, you understand this question, that you have to work for Yajña. Then you are free. Otherwise you will be entangled.



Guest (2): My next question is, I don't think God is opposed to sex. Seriously. I have heard many a lecture, and it is always stressed that as if the God is opposed to sex. But I don't think that's so. And from *Gītā*, Kṛṣṇa Himself says...



Prabhupāda: God is never opposed to sex. Who said? God said, dharmaviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi: "Sex which is not against the regulative principle of religious life, that I am." God never says that "Stop sex." Otherwise, why there is gṛhastha āśrama? Āśrama means that there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we say, "Here is an āśrama," we understand that there is consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. So brahmacārī āśrama, gṛhastha āśrama, vānaprastha āśrama, sannyāsa āśrama, make it āśrama and follow the rules and regulations of āśrama. Then it is all right. Otherwise you are bound up by the laws of nature.



Guest (2): As we heard in the beginning, one of the principal statements that a man goes on the motor train, stands there for two hours, reaches his place of business, and work there from nine o'clock in the morning to five o'clock in the evening, returns back, has his food and sex and all that. I found many a people who have worked very hard, raised children very nicely, have sex, but lead a good life. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.



Prabhupāda: Yes, if there is no wrong, it is all right. But this sort of life is not very palatable.



Guest (2): Because I find even the dogs...



Prabhupāda: If you like that life, it is very good. That is up to you. But I don't think this is a very nice way of life, to work so hard simply for bread.



Guest (2): No, I agree there.



Prabhupāda: Then agreed, agreed. Then why disagree? (laughter) That's all right, no more.



*Tamāla*-kṛṣṇa: Another question, Prabhupāda, a different man.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (3): Karma is the cause of also the cycle of death and birth. So virtuous karma of action, liberation of man are inclined to the supreme (?). If it is so, that is called mukta. If it is so, what is the first cause that should denial(?) me from the supreme or the action?



*Prabhupāda: Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. We have already mentioned. Kāraṇam, the first cause. Guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. As soon as you want to associate with the modes of material nature, then you are bound up, immediately, by the modes of material nature. Then your work begins. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. That is natural. Actually, every living entity is constitutionally the servant of Kṛṣṇa, but when he wants to enjoy without Kṛṣṇa, without becoming servant of Kṛṣṇa, he wants to enjoy independently this material nature, then he has to associate with the modes of material nature and he becomes bound up. Yajñārthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. So you have to know or study all these understanding. Then you will understand what is what. That's all.



Guest (3): No, when we are with the Kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda: Huh, what is that?



Guest (3): ...then we are in supreme bliss.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Guest (3): When we are with Kṛṣṇa, we are enjoying the supreme bliss there. As soon as we come to this material world we are in a miserable condition.



Prabhupāda: Well this is natural.



Guest (3): Why did we left Śrī Kṛṣṇa and came to this world? What was the cause? There was no action at all.



*Prabhupāda: There is cause: kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. There is master and servant. The servant sometimes desires, "Why not become a master?" That is natural. So...



Guest (3): No. When I was with Kṛṣṇa, I was, matter was (indistinct) that my master is served.



Prabhupāda: You are master? You are kicked by the material nature and you are master? Why you are so falsely proud? You are not master.



Guest (3): But you said that the mokṣa is I am, once...



Prabhupāda: Mokṣa means that when you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. When you desire to become master of the world, then you become bound up. And when you give up this artificial desire, that is mokṣa.



Guest (3): Thank you.



Guest (4): Would you agree that God is just a concept? If you do not, please give a logical reason for that.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Guest (4): Would you agree that God is just a concept? If you do not agree to that, please explain it logically.



Prabhupāda: Why shall I agree, God is only concept?



Guest (4): Because I want it logically.



Prabhupāda: You do not know logic. You have to learn logic.



Guest (4): But I still would like you to explain it logically.



Prabhupāda: Yes, but you have to learn how to know it. There is master. There is master. Just like you cannot prove logically that without father there is a child. This is no logic.



Guest (4): Not without logic.



Prabhupāda: This is no logic. There cannot be any child without father. Therefore if anyone thinks that without father there can be child, he is animal. He has no logic.



Guest (4): But still the question is unanswered. Would you agree that God is just a concept?



*Prabhupāda: No, no. There must be father. Just like you see everything is growing out of this earth. Sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya saṁbhavanti mūrtayaḥ yaḥ [Bg. 14.4]. So there is mother, there is child. Where is the father? This is logic. Unless you come to this point, that there is mother, there is child, there must be father, then there is no logic. Without father there cannot be child. Simply mother cannot give birth to a child. This is logic.



Guest (4): Thank you.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





730906S2.STO

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1-8

-

Stockholm, September 6, 1973



Pradyumna: (chants SB 5.5.1 responsively)



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Pradyumna: All verses?



Prabhupāda: Yes, eight verses.



*Pradyumna: (continues responsive chanting*-break)



*Prabhupāda: ...nice instruction by Ṛṣabhadeva. Ṛṣabhadeva was incarnation of God. He was instructing His sons before retirement. So he's instructing nāyaṁ dehaḥ, this body, deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha-bhājām means one who has accepted this material body. Actually this body has no existence. It is simply a covering, therefore it is called māyā. Everyone, we have got experience, that at night we forget this body. We act in a different body in dream. At night we feel there is no existence of this body, and at night, dreaming, we get another body, walking in a different place, creating in a different situation, acting in a different body. It is a fact, every day, every night, we see it like this. And during the daytime we forget that night body. So actually we are possessing the gross body and the subtle body. When we act on the subtle body, the gross body is no longer existing, and when we work in the gross body, the subtle body is not existing. But I am existing. I am existing both in the subtle body and gross body. This day's body is also a dream, but we are so foolish that we do not understand it. Mad, we are mad after. Therefore this subtle body and gross body, and their vanishing at daytime and night's time, the cats and dogs cannot understand. But a man, if he has got cool brain, he can understand.



*What is that sound? Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This daytime, or nighttime, we work so hard, but what is the aim. Aim is to satisfy senses. Ask these people all over the world, especially in the western country. They are making so many plans. Yesterday, when we were coming by the plane, the whole two hours one man was working, making some calculation. So everybody is busy, very, very busy, but if you ask him, "Why you are working so hard? What is the aim?" The aim, he has nothing to say except sense gratification, that's all. He has no more aim. He may think that "I have got a big family, I have to maintain them," or "I have got so much responsibility." But what is that? That is simply sense gratification. Even we manufacture so many "isms", philanthropism, humanitarianism, nationalism, socialism, so many. But what are these "isms"? That is also sense gratification. I satisfy my senses. I want to see that the senses of my brothers, senses of my sisters, senses of my friends, or senses of my society people, or my nation, countrymen, they are satisfied. The business is sense gratification. Just like in our country we got Mahātmā Gandhi. So he started, he is supposed to be father of the nation. There are many leaders in different countries. But if we, I mean to, take account of their business, it is sense gratification, that's all. Extended sense gratification. These are just like Marx, what is his name, full name?

Devotee: Karl Marx.



Prabhupāda: Karl Marx. He is thinking how the laborer, the worker, their senses will be gratified. That is his philosophy. Is it not?



Devotee: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: He's thinking that the capitalist, they are satisfying only their senses in luxuriously, why not the laborers who are actually working. That is his philosophy. The central point is sense gratification. Just try to understand. The whole world is busy in different labels, but the central point is sense gratification. That's all. Is anybody has anything to say against this, here present? But here Ṛṣabhadeva says nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate, na arhate. Na ayam deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Such kind of hard work, it is done by the dogs and hogs also. So does it mean that we shall have to work, we have got this human form of body, and we have to work just like dogs and hogs. Actually they're doing so. Nothing more than that. The dogs and hogs, they're busy all day and night for the same thing: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, how to defend. The man is also working in the same way, under different label only. Nationalism, socialism, this "ism" that "ism", but the action of the dog and hog and the human society, so-called civilized, the point is the same. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that the dogs and hogs they are working so hard for sense gratification, but this human form of body is not meant for that. It is for different path.



*That the modern civilization, they do not know that. Modern man, society, they do not know. They simply think that, "Yes, dog is sleeping on the street. We must have very nice building, very nice apartment, very nice bedstead. That is advancement of civilization. Otherwise it is primitive, if we remain in the same standard, sleeping anywhere, without any furniture, with..." But after all the subject matter is sleeping, nothing more than that. Similarly, you take eating also, or mating also. Then, the question will be, then what do you say the human life is meant for? The answer is tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed [SB 5.5.1]. Human life is meant for tapasya, tapasya. Tapasya means austerity. Denying this, denying. The cats and dogs are satisfied*-as they eat more, they think they're enjoying. Nowadays the human being also. They're using so many appetizer, drinking. We study this in the aeroplane. Before eating, they supply wine, make the appetite very strong, then eat so much, huge quantity. You have marked it?

Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes, so that is their enjoyment. But Ṛṣabhadeva says, or the śāstra says, "No, no, you should not eat at all. That is your perfection." Just see. These, these animal like men, they are eating so much, they are enjoying, but your business should be to decrease up to the point of need, no more eating. So are they prepared? No. It is very difficult. But that is the aim. Therefore, you will find, those who are for spiritual advan..., just like Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī. Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī belonged to a very rich man's, son. His father and uncle were very rich men in... Five hundred years ago, the income was twelve lakhs of rupees per annum. That one lakh, one hundred thousand of rupees, I think at the present moment, the value has increased one hundred thousand times.



Devotee: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Within our life we see in our childhood, our boyhood we have seen rice was selling at three rupees four annas, first class rice. My father used to purchase, fifteen mounds of rice at a time, and the cost was three rupees four annas. Just like cumin seeds, so fine. First*-class rice. Now that first-class rice, at least in India, no more available, because all first-class rice is exported. Indian government wants exchange, they want to get machine. So in exchange of machine, they are sending all nice foodstuff outside. Even killing the cows, they are sending meat, skin. With Russia, they have got agreement.



So Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī's father's income was one hundred thousand rupees per month. Now, I have heard that sometimes in one rupee, they were selling nine mounds of rice. So anyway, Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī, the point is, Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī was very, very rich man's son, only son, and had very beautiful wife. The father saw that this boy is a little restless, he's very much attracted with Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, he wants to join, so he'll go away from home. So let him have a very beautiful wife, so that he may not go away. So rich man, to get a beautiful wife is not a very difficult thing, he got, and a special house, garden house, and with guard, so that the son may not go away. This was the position of Raghanatha Dāsa Gosvāmī. So one day Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī's... At that time he was not Gosvāmī, Raghunātha, Raghunātha's mother was advising her husband or Raghunātha's father, "Why don't you shackle him?" As woman she was suggesting that better, just like in prison house they are locked up in iron chain, similarly you do for my son so that he'll not be able to go away. So the father was replying, "You mad woman, don't you see I have given such a nice wife, shackle, he's not attached at all. And what this iron shackle will do?" This was Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī.

After all, Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī, somehow or other, in spite of vigilance of the father and mother, he left home and joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Jagannātha Purī. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very glad that Raghunātha has come. So his father thought that "The boy has gone away, he's not inclined, so he may not suffer for want of money," so he sent four servants and four hundred rupees per month expenditure for Raghunātha. So Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī, in the beginning he was accepting that four hundred rupees, but what he was doing, he was spending by inviting all the sannyāsīs, including Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So gradually Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī said that all his men, father's men, "You better go home. I don't want your assistance. I don't want this money. You go away." The master..., so they went back. And there was no invitation. Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired his personal secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara. So Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī was entrusted for training to Svarūpa Dāmodara. He asked Svarūpa Dāmodara, "We don't receive any invitation from Raghunātha nowadays, what is that?" "No, he has refused his father's money. He doesn't take. These men have gone back." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu went, "Oh, that's very nice. He became a mendicant by taking help from home, it is not good. He has refused, that is very nice. But how he is eating nowadays?" "Now he is standing on the staircase at Jagannātha Temple. When the priests go home, they give him some contribution of the foodstuff. He is maintained."

Then after few days Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from Svarūpa Dāmodara, "Oh, nowadays I don't find Raghunātha standing there, what he is doing?" Svarūpa Dāmodara replied that "Raghunātha has given up that business standing on this. He thought that it is standing like prostitute. 'No, I don't want.' " Then, "How he's eating?" "No, he is collects some rice which is washed away from the kitchen, and he eats that." Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī was doing that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu one day went to his place and He was searching, just He was encouraging, He was searching. He saw that a small pot some rice is kept. So, "Raghunātha, what is this?" (He) began to eat, "Oh, (this) is very nice. You eat such nice things, you do not invite us?" (laughter). Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī said, "It is not for you, don't take it, don't..." "No, no, it is very nice!" In this way Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī increased, and later on, when after departure of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he went to live in Vṛndāvana with the six gosvāmīs, he is also one of the gosvāmīs, he was taking three times bathing, but not eating. Every alternate day, he will take a little buttermilk. That's all. This is called tapasya, austerity. Coming to the point of nil, no more eating. No more sleeping, no more sex life, no more defense. This is perfection. Who will accept this? (laughter)

*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke, to collect for eating, sleeping and mating, whole day and night working, this is not good. Then what is good? Tapaḥ. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed [SB 5.5.1]. Sattvam means your existence has to be purified. Our existence, this existence is not purified, therefore we have got this material body. Now what is the decitement (?). Let us have this material, we are enjoying very nicely. What is this bad? But these rascals, they have no idea that we can avoid the, I mean to say, miserable condition of this body. We can avoid. This, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudar... [Bg. 13.9], but they do not know that this is unhappiness, this is distaste.

They are so callous, just like animal. They cannot think that there is possibility of not being slaughtered. When they are taken in the slaughter house, they agree to go because they know there is no other way. We have been made, meant for being slaughtered. Actually that is the position. The poor animals, they have no power to protest, neither combinedly they can give you fighting, to the human being. You will see one hundred cows are being driven by one boy or one man. They are so helpless. If they combine, with their horns they can immediately kill that man, but they have no intelligence. They do not know how to fight. Sometimes they fight, but this is position of the rascals and fools. Take the example, one cow or one bull is quite strong enough to kill ten men. He has got so much strength. But because he has no intelligence, because he is animal, hundreds of cows and bulls are being driven by one man to the slaughterhouse.

*So the, this intelligence, that is difference between the animal and the man. If one hundred men was being taken away like that, immediately the man who was taking to kill them, immediate, why one hundred, ten men would have been sufficient, or two men would have been sufficiently stronger. They would not tolerate. Similarly we are also being driven by the laws of nature to accept these inconveniences, repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. But at the present moment, why at the present moment, always, these people, these rascal people, they do not know that we can be rescued from this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. They have no idea. And that is civilization. How to get out of this birth, death, old age, and disease, that is civilization. But no one, nobody knows, scientists no, philosopher no, politician. They can concede that there is such possibility. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, therefore it is said,

yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete

puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha

*sama*-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ

so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate



Amṛtatva, amṛtatva means no more births, no more death. No more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more old age. That is called amṛtatva. Amṛta means eternity or immortality. Hiraṇyakaśipu tried. Hiraṇyakaśipu, you know Prahlāda Mahārāja's father, he was defeated by the demigods. Therefore he left home and went for tapasya, to become immortal. So he was a demon, so he was undergoing tapasya, other demigods, not Kṛṣṇa, because he was against Kṛṣṇa. Demons means against God. They'll never go to God. They'll go to somebody else for power. So Hiraṇyakaśipu, when Brahmā visited, that, "Why you are undergoing so serious tapasya that the whole world is trembling by your tapasya? What do you want?" So he said, "I want to become immortal." Lord Brahmā said, "That is not in my power because myself is not also immortal? How can I give immortality?"



So he was a demon, he thought by cheating Brahmā, indirect way, he took all the benediction, that "I shall not die by any, killed by any man, any demigod, any animal, or any living being. I shall not die in daytime, I shall not die at night, I shall not die in the sky, I shall not die on the land, I shall not die in water." In this way, as much as possible, by the definition of negation, no this, not this, not this, he thought, "Now I have become immortal." But he was also killed by Nṛsiṁhadeva, keeping all the promises of Brahmā. He was not killed daytime, neither at night. He was not killed on water, he was not killed in the sky. He was killed on the lap of the Lord. So in this way... Actually even the demons in those days they were thinking that "Why should we be subjected to these laws of birth, death and disease. We must rescue (?)." But the demons cannot. But there is possibility. But who knows? Ask anybody, ask any scientist, philosopher that, "Have you any process by which we can become immortal?" What they will answer? "Up to date we have no such process, but we are trying. In future." They will say like that. But no question of future. Immediately, you can have.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Simply if somebody knows what I am, what is my activities, janma, why do I appear in this material world, janma karma." He appears like human being, not exactly, but it is supposed that He accepts one father and mother, and He appears. Devakī-vasudeva. But that is not ordinary thing. Here also it is said that "You undergo tapasya, but not like Hiraṇyakaśipu, for cheating Brahmā. Divyam, for understanding God." Just like Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyam, transcendental, yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa, His transcendental position. If you try to understand, then Kṛṣṇa says, "What is the result?" Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Where is that verse? Find out. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Find it, yes, yes, read it.

Devotee: Translation?



Prabhupāda: Yes. And one who does not take birth for him there is no old age, no disease. So here it is summarized that he does not take any more birth within this material world. What is the purport? Read.



Pradyumna: The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the sixth verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage, and therefore he returns to the Kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. [break]



*Prabhupāda: Janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. How Kṛṣṇa expands Himself, how He appears, what is the nature of His body, these things if you simply understand, then you become immortal. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just to give the people a chance to understand Kṛṣṇa then he becomes immortal. That is the mission of life. Not that to enjoy sense gratification in a polished way, but the business is the same as the dogs and hogs enjoy. That is being instructed here. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujām means the pigs who eat stool. They're also enjoying like that. They have got very free sex enjoyment. They do not care who is mother, who is sister, with anyone. We have seen, that is, nature has got example, everything, you can study. You'll find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that by studying nature you can get so many instruction, perfect. So one devotee made the nature his spiritual master, and studying nature and getting so much information. So if you study like that, here as it is given, the example, viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. So viḍ-bhujām means the pigs or the hog. They are also eating nicely, getting fat, and having sex intercourse very freely, so does it mean that human being is also meant for this business, like the hogs and dogs. This is the point. This is the instruction. This body is not meant for such enjoyment for the senses, but this body is meant for tapaḥ, austerity, as Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī showed example. He came to the point of neti. How to come to that point, tapasya. Why? By that process your existential position will be purified. And if you say, what is the use of purifying? There is use, because you want happiness, but your happiness is disturbed. You cannot have perpetual, uninterrupted happiness in this body. Therefore, if you really want happiness, then you purify your existence and you'll get continued eternal happiness of bliss and knowledge. This should be the aim of human life.



Thank you very much. (end)



730908SB.STO

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.1-8

-

Stockholm, September 8, 197



Prabhupāda: So this instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva is very, very important. Try to understand. Our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a protest to the modern way of civilization. The leaders of the modern society, they want that people should be engaged in working like dogs and hogs and asses. They should not understand what is the value of life, what is the object of life. Let them always remain intoxicated, and sense gratification, and produce more product for sense enjoyment. This is modern civilization. All these factories... I understand that in this country the farmers are taxed so heavily that they are forced to work in the factory. This is a policy of the government leaders to engage people. If anyone wants to live peacefully, save time for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the leaders of the society or the government will not allow him to do so. This is the position.



So you are all fortunate, or you are so kind that you have joined this movement despite all these obstacles in this country. Not in this, all over the world. So don't be disappointed. Go on preaching this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There are many innocent people; *they do not know what to do. There are four... For a preacher, there must be vigilance. A preacher will see four things: God, a devotee of God, innocent person, and envious, jealous persons. So a preacher should deal with these four items differently. So far God is concerned, we shall try to increase our love for God. This is one business. How? That is the arcanā*-vidhi, to always be cautious, to offer foodstuff, early to rise, offer maṅgala-ārātrika, keep the temple very cleansed, yourself also. Without being cleansed, without being brāhmaṇa, śaucam-śamo damaḥ śaucam... We should always remember. When you come to the temple, don't think that "Here is a picture of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." They are not picture. You should know that personally they are present. You'll realize the personal presence by the quality of your devotional service. If your devotional service quality is not first class, then it will take time to realize that here is personally Kṛṣṇa or Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu or the ācāryas are present here. It is a question of realization. The more you strictly follow the regulative principles, chant sixteen rounds regularly, the more you'll realize.

*Because God, Kṛṣṇa, is omnipotent. He can accept your service. He can bless you even from the picture. That is God's potency. If you think that this is just like ordinary picture... Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. You know the story of Sākṣi*-gopāla in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. The..., a atheist is thinking that "Here is a stone statue." And the devotee is thinking that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." It is a question of quality of advancement. The story, I may recite, that two brāhmaṇas, one young and one old, went to Vṛndāvana. So the younger brāhmaṇa, young man, he served this old man on the way. It is the duty, still in India, if there is any old man... It is not now decreasing. And if there is young man, the young man is always ready to help the old man. So at Vṛndāvana, after reaching, the young man and the old man, the old man felt very much obliged... (aside:) Why this sound? Huh? Felt obliged to the young man, and he said, "My dear boy, you have served me so nicely; without your help, I could not come. So I have got some obligation to you. I want to reward you." (aside:) Stop that sound. So (the) young man said, "Sir, why you are thinking like that? It is my duty. You are just like my father; whatever service possible, I have given you. There is no question of rewarding me." Actually, that is not service. If we serve somebody and with expectation of some reward, that is not service, that is business.

*So the old man said, "No, I feel myself." So he said that "My youngest daughter I'll give you." So he said, "Sir, don't say like that, because you are rich man. I am poor man." Because in India, still, the father, parents, they arrange for marriage. So they want equal status. If the father of the girl is rich man, then he must find out a son*-in-law who is coming also from rich family. If he's educated, he wants a son-in-law who must be educated. So this young man was neither very much educated, nor at all rich. But this old man was aristocrat, rich man, and educated, complete different. The young man said that "Why you are promising like this? You do not know you are talking before the Deity. You should not talk like that. Because it will not be possible. Even though you agree, your sons, your wife will not agree. So it will be failure and you are talking before the Deity, you should be careful." So the old insisted, "No, maybe they protest, but it is my daughter, I shall give you. Who can protest? I promise." So the young man said, "Now, it is up to you, but you are promising before the Deity. Mind that."

So in this way, when they returned home, one day the old man, before his wife and son, said, "My dear son, my dear wife, this girl should be offered to that young man." He was same village. "What is this? How this daughter can be offered to such poor man? He's not very educated." The old man said: "No, it doesn't matter. I have promised." The boy, his eldest son, said, "No, no, it cannot be." And the wife said that "If you give my daughter to that boy, then I shall commit suicide." He was perplexed. Now what to do? So he was thinking and praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Sir, I have promised before You. You kindly help me so that they may not commit suicide and I may also offer my daughter to that boy. You have to arrange for that." And Kṛṣṇa has got such contradictory duties. He has to protect the thief, as well as the man where theft is being done. You see. Because everyone is praying, "Sir, my things may not be stolen." And the thief is also praying, "Please give me some opportunity so that I can steal." And Kṛṣṇa has to satisfy both.

So in this way, the young man, he saw that this old man promised before Lord Kṛṣṇa, Gopālajī, and he's now silent. So one day he came, and the son of the old man, he was very politician, atheist class. So when the father said, "I have promised. How can I deny?" "No, when there will be some talk about this you simply say, 'I don't remember what I said,' that's all. Then I shall manage. I shall manage." So what can be done? Although he did not like to say like that, but he has to see both sides. So one day the young man came, "Sir, you promised, now you are silent, you do not do anything. What is in your mind?" So when he was talking with the old man like that, his son came out, "You rascal, you want to marry my sister? Are you fit for that?" So all ill names. And he brought a stick: "Get out; otherwise I shall beat you like that."

Then other neighborhood men said, "What is the trouble?" So he said that "This man, this young man, went with my father to Vṛndāvana. He took all his money by giving him intoxication. And now he's talking that my father has promised to give my sister to him. Do you think it is possible?" So all the neighborhood men said, "Yes, he's very rich man, How this poor man can be...? Maybe he has taken his money." So the young man said, "No, sir! He has promised before... I am not very much anxious to marry his daughter. But I'm simply anxious that he promised before the Deity. So how is that he can withdraw the promise? It is a great offense." He's thinking in that way. So in the meantime his son came out, "All right, if the Deity has become witness, if you can bring the Deity here and He gives witness: 'Yes, my father promised,' then I also promise that my sister will be married with you." Because he's atheist, he's thinking that "Deity is not going to come here. How He can come and from such a long distant place? This is impossible. This crazy man may say that Deity has become witness, but it is not possible." So he said, "All right, I'm going to Vṛndāvana to bring the witness."

So he went there again and... He knows that He is Supreme Personality of Godhead personally. He does not know that He is Deity. He's Deity, but He's Supreme Personality of Godhead. "Sir, if Your devotee... I know that old man is Your devotee, but he is now perplexed on account of his son and wife. So You have to go with me and say yes, this promise was made before You, to become witness." So Gopālajī said, "How I can go? Do you think a marble Deity can go anywhere?" So he was devotee, he said, "Yes, marble Deity, if He can speak, He can go also." Then He could not say anything. By logic, Kṛṣṇa was defeated. Yes. "Sir, if You can speak You can go also. So You have to go." "All right. So I'll go with you, but don't see back. I'll go, rest assured. And you'll hear the tinkling sound of My ankle bell, so you'll know I am coming. Daily you offer Me one kilo rice on the way. I shall go."

*So when the Deity reached almost, say, one mile away from the village, the ankle bell, tinkling of the ankle bell was not heard. So he was very much anxious, whether He has not come. He saw backside, he saw Deity is there. So he said, "Sir..." Now the Deity said, "Now I shall not go. Because I told you that don't see back side. So you have seen now backside. I am here, of course. But I cannot go any further." So he informed in the village that "My Gopālajī witness has come. You come here." So all the village people immediately came there and saw the big Deity, Gopālajī's there. So they could understand that it is not possible to carry this Deity from such a long distance. He has brought it. It was hundreds of, at least thousand miles. So they accepted: "Yes, Deity has come." And the marriage was performed. Then a temple was constructed by the king of that country. So again the mahārāja, king of Jagannātha Purī, conquered that country, and he was a devotee. He took away the Deity. The Deity is still there near Jagannātha Purī. He is know as Sākṣi*-gopāla, the witness Gopāla. Still people go and see.

*So the atheist class man will always think that Deity is a doll: "These people, crazy fellow, they are worshiping doll." But not for a devotee. For a devotee, the Deity is prepared to talk, and offer His blessings. So therefore, we should consider either the picture or the Deity not as such, but... This is very reasonable, because in the Bhagavad*-gītā we see Kṛṣṇa says that,

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca

ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me

bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



*"It is My energy, it is My energy. The earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, they are My separated energy." So it is emanation from Kṛṣṇa. Either you take the earth, water, fire, air, anything. It has come from Kṛṣṇa. So they are not different. The energy and energetic are not different: identical. And Kṛṣṇa, being omnipotent, He can do anything by His energy. That is the meaning of omnipotent. Even in ordinary things also. Just like a man has got enough money. That money is energy of the man, we can understand. So with that money he can do so many things. Although the money is in the bank and he's at home, by his order, so many things can be done. He can start a big factory, business, everything, although he's in the home. It is very easy to understand*-because the energy is there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa may be far away from us, even we think... Kṛṣṇa is not far away. Kṛṣṇa is within our heart. But even if we think that Kṛṣṇa is living in Goloka Vṛndāvana, which is unlimitedly far away from here...



Because this universe, you cannot estimate. You can see the border of the universe, the round sky, but nobody can reach there. There is no such means. The scientists calculate it will take forty thousands of years to reach there by the light year. So they are so much proud of material science. They see the sun, the moon. They cannot go there. Cannot go there. There are so many planets; we see at night. They are actually planets like this planet. But who can go there? You are so limited. So how you can go to the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives, Goloka Vṛndāvana? You cannot go even to reach these material planets, what to speak of the spiritual planets. The spiritual planets means crossing this wall, the sky, seven layers of wall. Earth, water, again. And each layer is ten times bigger than the other layer. This is the construction of the universe. So you have to penetrate through these layers. Then you come to the spiritual sky. And the spiritual sky, there are millions of planets, Vaikuṇṭha planets. And the topmost is Goloka Vṛndāvana. So just imagine how far it is, Kṛṣṇa's abode.

*Therefore, in the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is stated:

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'pyasti yat prapada*-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*You have got now airplane. That's nice. But you cannot reach even the material planets. So if you want to go to the spiritual planet, then you can make an airplane which has speed of the mind. Or the speed of the air. Those who are physicists, they know what is the speed of air, what is the speed of light. So above this speed, the speed of mind. Those who are physicists, they know how speedy is air and light. The mind is still more speedy. You have got experience. Now you are sitting here. Immediate, within a second, you can go to America, USA, India, immediately. You can go to your home. You can see things*-with mind, of course; *the mind speed. So the Brahma-saṁhitā says that even if you can manufacture one airplane which has the speed of the mind, which has the speed of the air-panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ*-and with that speed you go on for many millions of years, still you will not find where is Goloka Vṛndāvana. Still, you'll not find. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām [Bs. 5.34]. It is not that the previous ācāryas and others, they did not know what is airplane, what is speed, how to run. Don't think foolishly, as if they have manufactured. It is nothing, not even third-, not even fourth-class, tenth-class. There were so nice airplanes. Now here is the suggestion that you can manufacture an airplane which can run on the speed of mind. Now here is a suggestion-do it. You can manufacture an airplane which may run at the speed of the air. They are thinking that at the speed of the light, if we can manufacture one airplane, still, it will take forty thousands of years to reach the topmost planet. They're thinking, if it is possible.

*But so far we can see, those who are busy with bolts and nuts, how this dull brain, they can manufacture such things? That is not possible. It requires another brain. The yogīs can go, the yogīs can go. Just like Durvāsā Muni. He went to Vaikuṇṭha-loka, and he saw personally Lord Viṣṇu in the Vaikuṇṭha-loka for being excused because His disk was after him to kill. He insulted a vaisnava. That is another story, so in this way actually human life is meant for that purpose to understand God and His potencies and to revive our old relationship with Him. That is the main business. But unfortunately, they are being engaged in factories, in other work, to work like hogs and dogs, and their whole energy is being spoiled. Not only spoiled, but their characters, they are working so hard, so after working so hard they must drink intoxication. Then after drinking, they must eat meat. After this combination, they require sex. So in this way, they're kept in the darkness. And here, these verses of Ṛṣabhadeva, he says warning. He's warning, He's speaking to his sons, but we can take the lesson. That he says: nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Kāmān means the necessities of life. You can get your necessities of life very easily. By tilling the field, you get grains. And if there is cow, you get milk. That's all. That is sufficient. But the leaders are making plan, that if they are satisfied with their farming work, little grains and milk, then who will work in the factory? Therefore they are taxing so that you cannot live even simple life*-this is the position-even if you desire. The modern leaders will not allow you. They force you to work like dogs and hogs and asses. This is the position.

But still, we have to refrain from such unnecessary hard labor. It may be that government may take action against me because I'm speaking something revolutionary. Yes. But that is the fact. Why you should work? God has made provision for the birds, beasts, animals, ants, and if I'm devotee of God, He'll not give me food? What I've done wrong? So don't be agitated in that point. You will have all your necessities of life, but you remain fixed up in your determination in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't be agitated by this nonsense belief.

Thank you very much. (end)



690428SB.BOS

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.2

-

Boston, April 28, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



*Now, in the last meeting we have discussed that this life is meant for self*-realization. This human form of life especially... We must always remember that many, many years ago, not thousands-millions of years ago... In the modern civilization they have no history more than three thousand years. Some of the rascals, they say that ten thousand years before there was no human being. So this is going on, mental speculation. But we have got Vedic history, millions and millions of years. There are different species of life always. It is not that..., that only one species of life was existent and then gradually they have come to... This theory is not reasonable, neither acceptable. That is a long story.



*All different forms of species of life, as they are existing at the present moment*-you'll have aquatic animals, you'll have plant life, microbes, insects, birds, beasts, human beings, uncivilized human beings, civilized human beings-as they are presently existing, they existed even from the very beginning of creation. Not that in the creation there was no human being. From Vedic history we understand that in the creation, when everything was all water, at that time, a lotus flower grew out of the abdomen of Viṣṇu and there was creation of Brahmā. So Brahmā is supposed to be the most intellectual personality within this universe. My point is that in the beginning the creation was the most intelligent personality, not that in the creation there was lower animals, no. Lower animals were there. The... Just like at the present moment all kinds of living entities are there. If there is dissolution of this universe, everything will be destroyed, but again, when there will be creation, all the species of life, they'll take birth in the same way if they have not fulfilled their mission. The mission is that living entities are given chance to develop consciousness. They develop consciousness from the lowest form of life up to the brightest and the most intellectual form of life like Brahmā, and above that also, transcendental. That is called spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this chance is given to the living entities who are aspirant for material enjoyment. You should always remember that all living entities, 8,400,000 species of life, every one of them after material enjoyment. So they are given a chance. Vedic knowledge means that you have desire for material enjoyment, so therefore you can..., you are given the chance here for material enjoyment.

Material enjoyment means eating, sleeping, mating and defending. You can make these four principles in different varieties or different grades, but these are the principles of material enjoyment. A dog is eating; *you are also eating. So your eating and dog's eating, difference is that a dog can eat even stool, but you cannot. But you cannot. You have to arrange for palatable dishes just befitting human consumption. So there, there are different kinds of eating. But the eating principle is there, that's all. One is satisfied with stool*-eating, and one is satisfied by eating kṛṣṇa-prasādam. That is the difference. And between the stool and kṛṣṇa-prasādam there are many varieties and grades, according to different kinds of... Similarly, sleeping. Sleeping also, the dog is also sleeping on the side of a street without any difficulty. And the king is sleeping on the palace, very nice apartment. And a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he's also sleeping. But there are different grades. The Kṛṣṇa conscious person is sleeping, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This can be done. If you practice this Hare Kṛṣṇa, even in sleeping you'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything depends on practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā [Bg. 8.8]. Everything we acquire by spiritual practice. Now, this dancing, this dancing... There is another kind of dancing also in the hotels. The same boys and girls are dancing. Here the boys and girls are dancing. But that two different kinds of dancing, there is much difference.

So activities of the living entity within this material world, there are different kinds, not that one kind of activity, one kind of eating, one kind of sleeping, no. According to the different kinds of consciousness, there are different kinds of activities: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. The last meeting we discussed that we have all these demands because we have got this body, but the demands must be very nicely adjusted, not that, because I have got demand of this body, therefore I'll have to imitate like cats and dogs and hogs. No. That is not civilization. The dog has also got body, and the dog has got also bodily demands. Similarly, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he has got this body and he has got also bodily demands, but the, I mean to say, standard is different. That standard you have to change.

That is the instruction of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He says, "My dear sons, you cannot imitate your standard of demands of the body like cats and dogs and hogs. Oh, that is... Then you'll waste your time. You have got better opportunity." Just like there is very nice example. In this land of America, the Red Indians were living. Still they are living. But their standard of living, their standard of the same demands of the body, is different from the civilized nations who have come from Europe to this country. Therefore it is, America, is now so rich, because their standard of living and their standard of living is different. They could also develop this country very nicely, but their civilization, their standard of living, their consciousness, was different. So it is on the basis of different standard of consciousness the standard of living and existence is dependent.

So our process is to come to the standard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no denial; the demands of the body are to be supplied because without supply of the demands of the body, how can I live? That is not to be neglected. But Ṛṣabhadeva advised, "My dear sons, your demands of the body should not be like the demands of the body of the hog and cats and dogs. That is not..." So... Now what is the aim of the demands of the body? The demands of the body, the ultimate aim is pleasure. I want to be happy. But if we make our demands of the body flickering, temporary, changing, then we shall waste our time because pleasure is the ultimate goal of life. So Ṛṣabhadeva advised that "If you want eternal pleasure, eternal happiness, then you do not try to misuse your, this valuable body simply for meeting the demands like cats and dogs."

Just like we can give nice example that a diseased man and a healthy man... The diseased man, although doctor advises that you don't take this kind of food, but within himself he has got the desire. He has got the desire. The desire is there, but by the restriction of the physician, he does not eat. Just like for a diabetic patient, the doctor says, "You can eat so much quantity of food, not more than that," although he desires to eat more. So the desire is there, but because he wants to come to the healthy standard of life, he follows the restriction of the physician. The demand is there. A patient lying in the hospital, he wants whatever is very palatable for me, for him, he wants to eat that. But the medical practitioner has advised, "Oh, you cannot take it. You cannot take." So he's following, "All right, just to become..." But when he's healthy there is no such restriction. The doctor does not restrict the diet of a healthy person. The restriction is for the person who is suffering from certain type of disease.

So we do not understand that our materialistic way of life, our this material existence, every one of us, is diseased condition of life. It is not healthy condition of life. That we do not understand. We are thinking, "Oh, I am eating, sleeping and dancing, and then nice, so what is the disease? It is nice." But that your very body is a disease, this very body, because it is subjected to so many tribulations, so many sufferings. So we should try to understand that what is the cause of our suffering. The cause of our suffering is this body. The root cause of our... Either this body is American body, Indian body, cat's body, dog's body or prince body or demigod's body, because the body is material, therefore you have to undergo certain types of tribulations. At least, you'll have to die. You'll have to take birth. You'll have to suffer from diseases. You have to undergo the tribulation of old age. It does not mean that because I have got a princely body, therefore there will be no disease. No. The disease will be there. And the death will be there. And the sufferings of old age. Just like I am old man. I have got sometimes sufferings, backache, this ache... Old man, you see, rheumatic. So these things are to be suffered.

*Therefore all our sufferings are due to this body. And this human body is the junction, the crossing point, whether I want to cure myself completely from this disease of birth, death, old age and disease or I want to continue. That we must make a decision. If we think, "Oh, it is very nice. Let us have this body. Never mind. Sometimes we suffer from disease, suffer from old age, or birth, death. Never mind." But that is the general impression of the general public: "Oh, we don't care what is going to happen." That is irresponsible life. But if a human being is responsible, if he actually wants healthy life-healthy life means without birth, death, old age and disease... That is healthy life. Our conception of healthy life is not to become too much fatty, or robust body. Robust body or fatty body or any body, this body, everything will finish. Our proposition is that how to conquer death, birth, old age and disease. That is our proposition. So if one is serious to conquer over these four principles of life and desiring eternal nonstoppage happiness and pleasure*-the same thing, pleasure means there is... The same... Just like the pleasure in a hotel dancing, that is also pleasure. And here also, Hare Kṛṣṇa dancing, there is also pleasure. But the standard of pleasure is different. Standard of pleasure is different.

So this whole Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is nothing to stop, but to change the standard of pleasure, from the standard of temporary, flickering pleasure to the permanent, eternal pleasure. That is the program of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So anyone who's interested to be, to accept the standard of pleasure which is eternal and continual, for them this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice. And those who are interested, "Never mind, we have got a temporary life, temporary pleasure, we enjoy this materialistic way of life. No," so for them Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has no meaning. But those who are interested to attain that standard of pleasure which is eternal, for them this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. That is... That we have discussed in the last meeting, that "My dear..." Ṛṣabhadeva addressed His sons, sons, "My dear boys," that, "if you want perpetual, eternal happiness, nonbreaking happiness, then you try to purify your existence, and for that, you try to accept some austerity."

*The same example, just like the patient is accepting voluntarily some austerity. He has got the desire to take some kind of food. But because he wants to go the healthy condition of life, he's following the instruction of the physician, that he cannot take. Just try to understand. If you think that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is restricting so many things... Not so many things. That is very simple. Just like we don't allow illicit sex life. We don't allow intoxication. We don't allow meat-eating. We don't allow gambling. Of course, these four things don't mean very severe things for the present population. But if anyone is serious about attaining eternal happiness, just like this patient in the hospital is following the physician's instruction*-he has to follow it voluntarily. This is called austerity. Austerity means just like if I say, "Please don't smoke," but you are veteran smoker, and if you want to follow my instruction, "Don't smoke," you'll feel some difficulty in the beginning. That is called austerity. Austerity means accepting voluntarily some difficulties for higher development. The same principle. Just like a patient is accepting the physician direction under certain difficulty, but he is, because his aim is aiming at healthy condition of life, he voluntarily accepts.

So tapaḥ. Tapaḥ means just like sometimes we don't want scorching heat, but under certain conditions, we tolerate scorching heat for better purpose. Or very severe cold. Sometimes we do not like, but for some higher purpose we sometimes suffer. So these voluntary sufferings under the direction of superior authority is called tapasya. Tapasya. Tapasya means accepting voluntarily some suffering. That is the way of spiritual realization. That is not actually suffering. That is nectarean. But in the beginning it appears like suffering. So that is called austerity. Tapaḥ divyam. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear sons, you just voluntarily accept some austerities, divyam." Why? For transcendental realization. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. "If you accept this principle, then your existence will be purified."

*Just remember that the whole different grades of evolution of life means purifying the existence. The aquatic animals, when they are developed into plant life, that is little purified. Then from plant life, microbes, insects, that is still more purified. From microbes, insects, birds' life, different grades of birds' life, that is still more purified. And from birds' life to beasts' life, that is still more purified. And, from beast life to human form of life, that is still more purified. And from uncivilized human form of life to civilized human form of life, that is still more purified. In this way this purification process is still going on. From this human form of life there are other life in upper planetary systems. They are called demigods. Just like you are trying to go to the moon planet. You cannot go because your body is not purified to stay there. Just like in your American country you do not allow everyone*-there is check by the immigration department, what class of men you shall admit-similarly, you cannot enter in the moon planet by force unless you are purified. Or the temperature, the atmosphere, is so severe there, it is unfit. It is the statement of the scientists who are trying to go there that the temperature is below two hundred degrees zero. So how you can live there? Here, in your America, Canada, if the temperature is ten degrees below zero, you suffer so much. How you can live there? So you have to purify yourself before entering moon planet. Similarly, you have, if you want to enter into the sun planet, you have to purify a different way. Similarly, there are different heavenly planets. What do they know? There are millions and millions of high-grade planets, and they are... There is Siddhaloka, perfectional, according to this material conception. They are called Siddhaloka. Siddhaloka means the residents of that planet can fly in the space without any mechanical or any support, aeroplane or anything like that. They can, automatically can, travel in the space. Just like Nārada Muni, he can travel in the space. There are different grades of purificatory processes and purified life. And the highest purified life is Kṛṣṇaloka. So these are not imagination. We get all this knowledge from Vedic, I..., literature.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means, as we have read from the Bhagavad*-gītā, that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: [Bg. 4.9] "My dear Arjuna, Kaunteya..." Arjuna's another name is Kaunteya because he is, happens to be, the son of Kuntī. His mother was named Kuntī. So from Kuntī, he was Kaunteya. Kaunteya means "son of Kuntī." So Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, tyaktvā deham. Tyaktvā means quitting this body. Mind that always, that we are changing different types of body just like different types of dress. I am the spirit soul. So, so long you are not completely purified, you have to accept this kind of body, that kind of body, this body, that body, that body. That is going on. But one who comes to the perfectional stage of purification, for him, Kṛṣṇa says tyaktvā deham, by quitting this body, punar janma naiti... Punar janma means rebirth, reincarnation, within this material... No more. Finished. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punaḥ, mām eti: "He comes to My planet, or unto Me." Who? Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: [Bg. 4.9] "The person who can understand the science of Kṛṣṇa, that person." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply by understanding what is Kṛṣṇa, how He appears on this planet, how He disappears, what does He do, what does He instruct, what is the purpose, so many things... They are classified in two headings, janma karma: birth and activities. Kṛṣṇa has got activities. When Kṛṣṇa was present, He was full with activities. Simply by knowing this, janma karma, one, after quitting this body, does not accept any more this material body, but he's immediately transferred to the Kṛṣṇaloka.

*So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a training system, training system how to acquire, how to be transferred to that Kṛṣṇaloka, how to attain that most purified body where there is no more death, no more birth. There is another version in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Here it is said, mām eti: "He comes to Me." So in another verse it is stated... If somebody inquires that "What happens by going to Kṛṣṇa?" that is also answered: mām upetya kaunteya. This very same word is there, kaunteya: "My dear Kaunteya," mām upetya, "anyone who comes to Me..." Upetya. Upetya means "approaching Me." Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvataṁ nāpnuvanti: [Bg. 8.15] "He does not any more regain this place, this material world, which is full of miseries and temporary."

*The qualification of this material world are two. So long you live, it is always full of miseries. And if you try to make compromise-"All right, I shall live here. Never mind it is miserable"*-that is also temporary. You cannot live also. You cannot... Suppose you think that "All right, I have got this American body, American country. Never mind there are some sufferings due to this body. I shall live here." Oh, you cannot live. You cannot. You'll not be allowed to live also. How long? Therefore the qualifications of this material world are two. It is full of misery and it is temporary. But our demand is full of pleasure and eternal life. Just opposite. But the foolish persons, they do not understand. They think, "Oh, we are very much happy." Oh. How we are happy? Supposing you are feeling happy. How long you'll be happy? Any moment you'll have to give up this place. Take example, your President Kennedy. He approached to the most happiest position, president, young man, good wife, children. Within a second, everything finished. Within a second. He was going on car very nicely, protected, thinking protection, but just in a moment-finished. So that possibility is for everyone. Even the President of America, Mr. Kennedy, he could not save himself, in spite of so much power and opulence. And what of us? We have to think, you see, very with cool head that every arrangement here in this world, however nice you may think, however you may be free, they are all temporary, all temporary, backed up by full of misery. Unless one is not conversant with this principle of life, he cannot actually seriously take up what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Those who are very intelligent persons, those who can understand what is the situation of our life, "What I am..." These things are very intelligent questions. Unfortunately, in the educational system anywhere in the world there is no system for infusing a student to inquire about this. Simply they are being carried away by temporary so*-called happiness, concocted happiness. That is not very... That is the main principle of this instruction, that Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now if you be carried away by this unscientific way of life, then your human form of life is spoiled, simply spoiled. Don't try to spoil your life. You have got the opportunity." This is intelligence. Just like if you are posted in a nice position, you try to utilize that position very intelligently. Just like if you have, anyone, although any post here is temporary, but anyone tries... Similarly, we should try to utilize this human form of life very intelligently.

*There is another verse in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, labdhvā su*-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte... That is the way of Vedic instruction. Everywhere you'll find. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many births... Unfortunately, they do not believe in the next birth, or past birth-always in ignorance. But that is a fact, and we are repeatedly exemplified that I am living. Although I am changing my body, I am living. Therefore, when I change this body, I shall continue to live. This is the bare truth. Why you do not understand? Life is continuous. Simply you are changing bodies. Now how I am preparing for the next nice body which is eternal? That is the problem of human life, not that to be carried away by cats and dogs and meat and fish and everything. No. This is the main theme of this instruction, that tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena, yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Tapo divyaṁ putra, putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet. Just try to purify your existence. Just like I gave you the list of purification from lowest stage of life to the highest, so, I mean to say, as the change of body, just like change of dress, you like a nice dress, giving up the old dress, similarly, change of body is going on. You accept the first-class body next life, first-class body next life which is eternal, which is not subjected to the tribulations of this body. That should be the aim of human civilization, not that simply getting money and spending for sense gratification. That is cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not human civilization. One should utilize the opportunity.

*So next point is how you can do this? How you can purify your existence? That instruction is that mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you associate and serve mahat-mahat means the great, great personality-mahat-sevāṁ dvāram, then your door for purification will be open. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāram... And the opposite is, if you want to enter into the darkest region of ignorance, then you associate with persons who are simply meant for sense gratification. Two ways, this way or that way. If you want to approach to the perfectional point of purificatory birth, then you associate with mahat-sevā. Sevā means service. Service. Our whole process is service. This spiritual life can be attained simply by service, not by any other qualification. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is surrender. You cannot render service to a person unless you surrender. That is the first condition, mahat-sevā.

*Now, that surrender begins from mahat*-sevā, surrendering unto a great personality. And who is great personality? That will be also explained. Generally, mahat means the great. Now, how a man can become great? When he is in contact with the great, supreme great. God is great. God is great, and if you contact God, then you become great. That is the definition given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no use of rubber-stamp great. That is not greatness. Greatness, that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Oh, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Who are great? Mahātmās, great souls? Mahātmā, this title, cannot be given to any ordinary man. No. Mahātmā means... That is described very nicely, mahātmā. First, first verse is in the Bhagavad-gītā, that bahūnāṁ janmanām. Mahātmā, to become mahātmā, is not very easy thing. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. After purifying the body, after many, many births, many, many births, bahūnām. Bahūnām means many. Many, many births, purifying, trying to purify, trying to purify...

*So bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. Purification means full knowledge. What is the difference between dog and me? How I am purified? Because my knowledge is different than the dog. So purification means knowledge. Therefore the very word is used, jñānavān. Jñānavān, one who has advanced in knowledge, he is purified. Just like an ordinary man, he does not know how to keep hygienic principles, ignorant. But a person who knows the hygienic laws, how to keep the body, his body is purified due to knowledge. A man who does not know that "By eating this such and such kind of food I'll be diseased," he has no knowledge. Why so much, so much disease in the society? Due to ignorance. Due to ignorance, a dor... He goes to a man, a physician, who knows, who has the knowledge. Why do you go to the physician? Because you know that he has knowledge. He can give you direction how to keep body healthy. So nonpurification, impure body, means want of knowledge. Want of knowledge. So Bhagavad*-gītā says, mahātmānas tu, mahātmā. How one can become mahātmā? When he has got full knowledge. Then he has got purified body. Mahātmānas tu, this very word is used, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. One who has developed purified knowledge, purified body, he's no more under the control of this material world. (noise in background) (aside:) What is matter?

So mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha [Bg. 9.13], those who have become great, the great souls, they are not under this material nature. They are in the spiritual nature. To become mahātmā means one should be under spiritual nature. After many, many births, when he has attained perfect knowledge, that is the sign of mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. And what is the test that he has attained purified knowledge and purified body? The test is bhajanti, uh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. No. Bahūnāṁ janmanām a..., after many, many births, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Who? One who has attained perfect knowledge. Jñānavān means perfect knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: "He surrenders unto Me." That is the ultimate standard of knowledge, when one has fully surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa, or God. That means he has attained perfection. You have got very good instance like Lord Jesus Christ. He was fully surrendered unto God. Therefore he is so much worshiped. He is great. God is great. He is also great because he has fully surrendered. So this greatness means when you fully surrender unto the... [break]

*...from austerity. What is that austerity? The physician says, "My dear such and such, you are suffering from fever. You should not take this food, that food, that food," or "You should not do like this, you should not go to such and such..." So many restrictions. Something do and something do not. So this austerity means do not. That is meant for human society. The animals, they follow also do not, but by their natural intuition. But we have got developed consciousness. We have got also natural intuition, but because we have got developed consciousness, we sometimes misuse our opportunity and therefore we suffer. Just like... I'll give you another example. We require little salt with our food, but if you take more salt, the food becomes (indistinct), and if there is no salt, you cannot take it. Salt must be there, but to the point. Similarly, so far our sense gratification, we have got our senses. We have got our mouth, we have got our stomach. We require to eat. So we do not stop your eating, but we regulate your eating that if you eat like this, kṛṣṇa*-prasādam, then your life becomes full of austerity. If you have sex life in regulated married life, fixed-up husband and wife, then it is austerity. If you don't... Smoking or intoxicating, we never learned it from our childhood, from our birth. From childhood, we require milk to drink and live. But we have learned by bad association or good association. Similarly, we can give up also these habits by bad association or good association.

*So tapo divyam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet: [SB 5.5.1] "My dear boys," Ṛṣabhadeva says, "if you accept this austerity, the principles of austerity, then your existence will be purified." The same example, just a man is suffering from fever. If his fever is cured, then he gets healthy life. And, when he's in healthy life, he's free to eat, move, and everything of his business. But so long he's not in healthy life, he's restricted by the physician. Similarly, our present existence, conditional life, is due to this material body. I'll not expand my lecture, how we are suffering from this material body, but several times I have explained that this body is subjected to so many conditions. Just like adhyātmika we have got some bodily pains, mental inequilibrium and so many things. That is called adhyātmika, pertaining to the body and the mind, sufferings. Similarly, there are sufferings imposed by other living entities. Similarly, there are sufferings imposed by natural phenomena. So because we have got this body, we are subjected to threefold miseries of life. And we are hankering after eternal life, blissful life, life of knowledge. If you want to attain that perfectional stage of life, which is called brahma*-saukhyam-Brahman, Brahman means the greatest-then you have to follow some regulative principles of austerity so that your existence will be purified and, Ṛṣabhadeva says, then you'll be eligible to enjoy eternal life. Brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Anantam means unlimited. We are hankering after happiness, but due to our material condition, the happiness is not eternal, neither blissful. But there is life where happiness is eternal, never disturbed. Unlimited. There is life of full knowledge. There is life of full bliss. And there is life of eternal.

*So our whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is targeting to that eternal brahma*-saukhya, or the unlimited, great happiness. And for that, we have to prepare in this life by following a simple method, a regulative method of austerities. So this lecture I began in Buffalo, and I am continuing that. So my request is that... We have got many centers. This is also center, one of the centers. We are not meant for giving you any bluff, that "You give me some fee," or "I shall give you some mantra, and whatever you like you can do, and if you meditate or do that, then you'll become one with God." These things are not our business. We are following strictly the principles of Vedas, the principles laid down by great authorities, and if we accept them, then we'll get the required perfection of life. And they are not very difficult. They are not very difficult. Just like our process is simply to chant. Simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, gradually you'll develop your spiritual life without any pain.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys," mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2], "If you at all, if you are at all desirous or eager to attain that perfectional stage of life, then the path is mahat-sevā. You associate or you serve great personalities who are devotees of the Lord." Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. Mahat means great soul. Who is great soul? A great soul is a great devotee of the Lord. That is great soul who has captured the Supreme Soul. He's great soul. We are... We are very small. Our identity, magnitude, as stated in the Vedic literature, it is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. It is very small. You cannot even imagine. So we are very small, but we can become the greatest, almost as good as God, if we engage ourself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. You have got best example. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He, he's worshiped as good as God because he dedicated everything for God. Similarly, if you also dedicate your life, your intelligence, your money... Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. By four things you can attain greatness, almost greatness like God. How? By engaging your life, your wealth, prāṇair arthair dhiyā, your intelligence... If you have no money, then you can apply your intelligence. If you have no intelligence, you can simply carry the words of God. In that way you can achieve the greatest perfection of life. If somebody has money, all right, he can spend for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If he has no money, he can give his intelligence, how we can push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If he has no intelligence, simply carry this word and speak to the people, "My dear friend, you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." You see? So any way you can engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is called mahat-sevā, service of the Supreme, or service of the Supersoul. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram. If you accept this way of life, then your spiritual life will be open. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2].

Vimukteḥ means... Vimukti. Mukti means liberation, and, adding the word, vi... Vi means specifically liberation. There are five kinds of liberation. One liberation is to merge into the Supreme. Another liberation is to live with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the same planet. Another liberation is to achieve the status quo of life as good as God. Sārūpya, sāyujya, sālokya, sāmīpya. You can associate yourself with God. That is another liberation. In this way, there are five kinds of liberation. Generally the Māyāvādī philosophers, they want to merge into the existence of God. That also, one of the recommended process of liberation. But so far we are concerned, we don't want even to merge into the existence of God, but we want to become associated with God in friendship, in love, in servitude, in so many ways. We want to keep our existence, individual existence, and associate with God. That is the Vaiṣṇava philosophy.

*So mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram, if you associate with great souls... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to produce some great souls. If people get opportunity to associate with great souls, then automatically his path of liberation will be open. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. And tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. And if you associate with persons who are simply interested in sense gratification, then you must know that your door for going into the darkest region of ignorance is open. Two doors: one door to the path of liberation, and one door to the path of darkest region of ignorance. That means material existence. You know, in the material existence... Just like we are also living entities, and the cockroaches are also living entities. Do you know where they are living? Within the commode there are many germs, many worms, they are also living entities. They're stool. There are worms in the stool. They're also living entities. So we can fall down up to that point even. Don't think that because we have got this beautiful body, nice situation, this is guarantee of any falldown. No. We can fall down any moment, in any species of life. There are 8,400,000 species of life. You should know it. And utilize this opportunity for opening the door of liberation. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. And in order to reach to that door of liberation, you have to associate with persons who are devotees of Lord, mahat-sevā. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Yoṣitām. If I simply avoid, myself, the process of sense gratification, but if I associate with persons who are addicted to sense gratification, then that is also very dangerous. That is also very dangerous, because saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ-my desires and my propensities will develop according to the association I make. A man is known by his company.

So this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, this opening of different centers, is meant for giving association to the people in general for opening the door of liberation. That is a fact. You try to understand by all your arguments, reason and logic. And inquiry. That is a fact, because we are presenting authorized thing. So my request is that you take advantage. You have got good opportunity. You take this advantage of opening the door of liberation and don't misuse your life simply for sense gratification like cats and dogs. Then the people of your country, of your society or your family, they'll be all benefited, and because other nations, they are also imitating your procedures, they'll be benefited. And at least if one percent of the whole population becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, the whole world will be a different world. There will be..., uh... The world itself will become kingdom of God. Of course, we cannot expect that everyone will accept this philosophy, but we are trying. If some percentage of the population takes this movement seriously, the face of the world will be changed.

Thank you very much. Any question? No question? Then I understand that you accept my proposition without any difference of opinion. (laughs) That's nice. Unanimously accepted. That's nice. But if you have got any difficulty to understand, you can make questions. I shall try to convince you. Yes.

Student: What is the role of (indistinct) austerity. Is it (indistinct) or is it (indistinct) to religion?



*Prabhupāda: Of course, according to circumstances, there is variation. That concession is always there. But the main principle is there. Just like we are getting our boys and girls married. So according to Vedic rites, marriage is a very big program. But we are finishing, according to Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, simply by acceptance. Svīkāra eva ca udvāhe. In this age it is recommended that if a girl accepts somebody as husband or if a man accepts somebody as wife, that is final. That's all. They may not change it. There is no need of making a very gorgeous ceremony of marriage. There is no need of making... That is, of course, social function. Actually, thing is that one boy should accept one girl as his permanent friend in life. And one girl should accept one boy as her permanent friend in her life. The girl should be agreed to serve the boy for her comforts, and the boy should agree to accept the girl to maintain her throughout life. That's all. Finished. Simply we must have that good will. Then this process of opening the path of liberation will be very, I mean to say, favorable. You can open your path of liberation even without marriage, remaining brahmacārī, but for girls brahmacārī system is not recommended. Therefore girls are advised to get a husband. Or the parents take the responsibility, according to Vedic rites and according... Still, in India, the father, not the, I mean to say, modernized, educated Indians. In villages they are not very much educated. Oh, they must get their girl, I mean to say, daughter, married before fifteen years. Otherwise, it will be a social scandal. The father is responsible for that. So, of course, we cannot introduce that system in your country. It is not possible. But it is up to you, that if you want to utilize your, this very favorable situation of life, get yourself married, live peacefully and execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what is the difficulty there? There is no difficulty. There are so many boys and girls who are married and living very peacefully and executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (pause)



So far intoxication is concerned, oh, you can give up with the association of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are not smoking even. So you learn it, as you have learned from childhood, from your, from your birth. You never learned how to smoke. But you have learned it later on. Similarly, you can forget it also by good association. Everything is possible. Simply you have to agree to accept. Then... And, if you prosecute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is very easy, simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and follow the rules and regulations, your life is sublime. But at least come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa with these boys. Then later on, gradually, you'll also understand the value of this austerity, austerity life.

Student: I have a question.



Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?



Student: (indistinct) whether austerity is a (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: Not austerity. Austerity... Path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, preliminary, begins simply by chanting. There is no restriction for chanting. Anyone can come and join in this chanting. But if one is serious to prosecute the Kṛṣṇa consciousness life, then he has to follow strictly these regulative principles. And they are not very difficult, because others are following. They are enjoying life. Eh?



Student: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Student: If austerity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is (indistinct) ?



Prabhupāda: Do you know what is consciousness? What is that?



Student: Yes. (indistinct) an awareness of reality, reality, an awareness...



Prabhupāda: No. What is the general concept? You are conscious of something? Is it not?



Student: An awareness.



Prabhupāda: Oh. It may be different. Similarly, you become conscious of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is that clear?



Student: No.



Prabhupāda: Not yet?



Student: No.



Prabhupāda: Why? Why? Consciousness, you understand. If you have got some occupation... Consciousness there must be. You are conscious, but your consciousness is absorbed in some thought, particular type of thought. Is it not?



Student: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Similarly, when your consciousness will be absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Student: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. Yes. That you have to learn, how they are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, what is the process, how they're executing. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness means, as generally the consciousness is absorbed in a particular type of thought, similarly, when your consciousness will be absorbed in Kṛṣṇa's thought, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is your perfect consciousness. Yes.



Student: How do you...? Why do you have to reduce to the animal if the animal is, I mean, you made reference to the absorption that comes in sleep.



Prabhupāda: Yes...



Student: ...and that we should try to transcend it. But can we really transcend it by repressing? I mean, wouldn't it be better to transcend, perhaps, by...



Prabhupāda: There is no question of repression.



Student: ...by having your fill of sense gratification first and then seeing that sense gratification is (indistinct) try to find a fuller (indistinct) and then work beyond it, but not trying to repress your sense gratification before you have it?



Prabhupāda: There is no question of repression. We don't stop sense gratification. But we regulate. That is human life. Regulative principle is human life. What is the difference between animal and you? Because a man can follow the regulative principles. Just like in your streets there is regulative principle that "Keep to the right." That is not meant for the animals. They cannot keep it. But if you do not keep, then you are criminal. Why this? Because you are human being. You are expected. If a dog goes to the left, he's not prosecuted. But you will be prosecuted. Why? Why this law for you?



Student: (indistinct) artificial laws for mankind...



Prabhupāda: All right, artificial laws, but there is some meaning. You cannot violate. Similarly, all the laws, all the books, all the scriptures, all knowledge, everything is meant for the human being, not for the animals. That is the difference between animal and man. The man follows restriction; animal cannot. Because man has got developed consciousness. He should know what is the aim of life. Therefore he should not live just like animals. He should be just like human being. That is the crossing stage of devel... In the ordinary way, we have evolved our life from lower animals, lower species of animals, to this human form of life. No (?) where another junction to promote yourself still higher, higher, higher life, unto the liberation life. But if you don't follow the restrictions, then you again glide down to lower animals' life. If you like, you can do that. Here is a chance. You haven't got to work so hard like the animals. God has given you so many facilities. You can live very nicely, better than animals. Therefore you must be better habits, I say, better habits than the animals.



So anyway, all the scriptures, restrictions, laws, everything, they are meant for human beings, not for the animals. Therefore a human being must follow them for perfection. You cannot imitate the animals. The animals... The dog has sex life in the street. Can you do that? You'll be immediately criminal. Why? You can say, "Oh, I am free. I can do this." Why this restriction? That means restriction is meant for human life, and follow the restriction is the human life. That is the difference between animal life and human life. The animals are loitering in the street, naked. Can you loiter in the street, naked?

Student: No, but if we break down the artificial institutions...



Prabhupāda: No, that is not artificial. That is rebellion to the established law. That is not, I mean to say, freedom. There are so many things. Therefore you have to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You see? Not to... Not in an hour or in a minute you can understand. We are... We have got so many literatures, books, and you can study them. You can try to understand, if you are serious. But we... Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means, as our thoughts are always absorbed in some type of consciousness, we are absorbed in some type of thought, similarly, when our consciousness will be absorbed in Kṛṣṇa thought, that is the perfection of life. (pause) Yes?



Student: How can one inquire of you how to know Kṛṣṇa? What is the process? How does one inquire of the spiritual master when he is (indistinct)?



*Prabhupāda: When you feel that urge, when you feel that urge. And that urge is created by association. Just like a man, he was never drunkard, but if he associates with drunkards, he'll feel the urge of drinking. Similarly, the same process. Nobody is Kṛṣṇa conscious, but if he associates with the person Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll feel the urge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and that is your qualification. Then he'll urge, oh, then he'll inquire, "Oh, what is Kṛṣṇa? What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How to have it? How to prosecute it? How to execute...?" So many things will come. Ādau śraddhā. The processes I have explained many, many times. Ādau śraddhā. Śraddhā means... Actually, what is called śraddhā? Exact meaning? Some faith. Or some attraction. Not attraction. Some faith. Just like people come here that they have little faith what is Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa. Ādau śraddhā, that... If that faith is increased little more, then the association is also needed, sādhu*-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83], those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is second stage. Then he becomes initiated, follows the rules and regulations. Then all misgivings, misunderstandings, are over. Then attraction, then firm faith, then love, and that is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There are stages.



*So first stage is faith. Without faith, nobody can make progress. Just like you are going from here to New York, you are purchasing some travel ticket by aeroplane. So you must have faith that "This company will carry me to New York." Otherwise, there is no progress. If in the very beginning you have no faith-"Oh, I shall purchase ticket. What is guarantee that this plane will carry me to New York?"*-it may not carry you to New York, but you have to pinch(?) your faith in the beginning. Then you can go. Similarly, first of all faith is required. Without faith, therefore, faithlessness is no, I mean to say, position of making further progress. Little faith must be there. That faith must be increased by further advancement. In the beginning is the faith, and then the faith becomes firm faith. Then you shall make progress, further, further. You come to the perfect stage. (pause)

*So, any other questions? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa*-with faith. (kīrtana) (end)



690917SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.2

-

London, September 17, 196



Prabhupāda:



*...mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



In last meeting we had been discussing about the path of salvation. There are two paths. One path is to salvation. Salvation means liberation from this material bondage. People do not understand what is material bondage, but those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are educated what is bondage and what is liberation.



A spirit soul, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, he is by nature very powerful. We do not know how much spiritual power we have got, but that is being suppressed by the material covering. Just like this fire. This fire, if there are too many ashes, the heat of the fire is not properly felt. But you move the ashes and just fan it, and when it is blazing, then you get the proper heat and you can utilize it for so many purposes. Similarly, we, as spirit soul, we have immense power. And God is the supreme spirit soul, so we cannot imagine how much power God has got. But even we, who are a simply minute particle... Just like... Comparison is just like the fire and the sparks. The fire and the sparks, both of them are fire. The spark even, wherever the spark will fall, immediately it will burn. Similarly, we have got all the qualities in minute quantity of God. God has the creative force; therefore we are also creating so many things. The scientists are creating so many wonderful things. That is wonderful for persons like us, because we do not know how much wonderful one can play. That we do not know. We simply...

*Just like we are giving very much credit to the person who is going to the moon planet by some machine: "Oh, wonderful." But we do not see that who has created these planets, and they are floating in the air. And not only one planet, millions of planets, trillions of planets, each planet having different atmosphere, temperature, population, so many things, varieties. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is stated, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. Koṭiṣu vasudhādi [Bs. 5.40]. In each brahmāṇḍa, in each universe, there are innumerable universes. This universe in which we are living, that is only one. And how it is one? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given information, it is just like one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds. If you take a bag of mustard seeds, you can imagine how many... You cannot count how many there are, mustard seeds. Out of that, one mustard seed, if you take... Similarly, there are so many universes that you cannot count. Out of so many universes, this is one universe. And this one universe also containing so many planets. Koṭiṣu vasudhādi, vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. Vasudhā means planet. So they are of different qualities, vibhūti-bhinnam. Just like the sun planet is very hot, the moon planet is very cold. Similarly, other planets, they are watery, airy-variety. Just like even on this planet we have got varieties of climate. So we should know how much creative force God has, wonderful. So out of that wonderful creative force, we living entities, we have got a little particle, and therefore we can manufacture these wonderful machines, and we are struck with wonder, "Oh, we have done so great feat." No. We should try to understand still further, still further.

*So the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata says that if you want to be free... Free means just like you are trying to go to the moon planet by so many mechanical arrangements, but if you are free spiritually, then you can go any planet you like, immediately. The yogis, those who are perfect yogis... Not these nonsense yogis. Those who are perfect yogis, they can go at their will any planet they like. That is yogic perfection. When a yogi becomes perfect, he does... He does not die. "Die," this word is not actually applicable. When he leaves this body... Actually, nobody will die. We simply quit this body and accept another body. We are forced by the laws of nature according to karma. By practice of yoga system we can avoid the forcible nature's law, but we can leave this body according to our sweet will, not being forced by the nature's law. Just like Bhīṣmadeva. Bhīṣmadeva, he knew this yoga practice. Therefore he was not to be killed. Unless he desired to die, nobody could kill him. So yogis... Still there are many yogis in India, they are living for seven hundred years, or three hundred years, four hundred years. They consider not yet perfect. Not yet perfect. They are trying to make perfection of the yoga practice, and they look like young men, say, twenty-five years, thirty years old. But they are seven hundred years old, three hundred years old. There are still yogis. They are yogis. They have practiced yoga. Still they consider they are not perfect. The perfection will be when a yogi at his sweet will can leave this body and can go any planet he likes. Not only within this material universe, but also even, if he likes, he can go to the spiritual planet also. That is yoga.

*Just like Durvāsā Muni. Durvāsā Muni traveled within this universe and beyond this universe within one year. That statement is there in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. There was a misunderstanding between him and a devotee, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. So for that reason he had to travel. He was attacked, and out of the fear of his life he had to travel to go from one planet to another, one planet to another to save his life. Ultimately, he had to go to the Viṣṇu planet. He was so powerful. And it is said that this space travel covered by Durvāsā Muni took only one year. So yoga practice is so... That is also a kind of freedom. We do not know what is freedom. Liberation, I am speaking on the point of liberation. But he was also not liberated, that Durvāsā Muni, although he could travel from one planet to another, another, another, even up to Viṣṇuloka. He was not liberated. He had to come back. Liberation means that you go to the spiritual realm, the spiritual sky, and you do not come back again. It is not like that, that after spending many millions of dollars you go to the moon planet and touch it and bring some sand, and you are satisfied. You see? Don't waste in that. If you go, live there. (laughter) Just like I came to the Western country to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, now I am living. I am not after taking some money and bluffing and go away. No. I am standing here. I am facing, "Come on," any philosopher, any scientist, any religion, "Come on and see the beauty of Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Devotees: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: So that is going. Go in the moon planet. Don't come back. (laughter) Simply by touching, "Oh, we have done tremendous." What tremendous you have done? So that kind of freedom is not wanted. Freedom means wherever you like, you can go, you can stay, nobody can check. That is liberation. That is liberation.



*So here it is said that if you want that sort of liberation, then mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want that sort of liberation, then associate with mahātmās, great souls. And if you want to be stuck up in this material world, then you associate with persons who are addicted to sense gratification. That's all. Two processes. If you be addicted to the process of sense gratification... Like animals. They have no other information. They are simply engaged in sense gratification: eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That's all. Their business finished. They do not know anything else. If I call some animals... Why people are not taking part in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because they are animals. They are appearing with four hands and legs, but they have been trained to become animals. So they cannot take. But we are trying to train them from animalism to humanism by associating with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is to give chance to this animalistic civilization to associate with devotees and mahātmās so that they can also become devotee and mahātmā. You associate with mahātmā, you become mahātmā. You associate with debauch, you become debauch. Practical. We have taken from the debauchery condition all our disciples. But they are now mahātmās. It is possible. By this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we can turn debauch into mahātmā. That is possible. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is so nice.

*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, pāpī*-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that "Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His saṅkīrtana movement, has delivered all kinds of fallen souls," pāpī-tāpī. Pāpī means sinful and tāpī means suffering. If you become sinful, then you must suffer. If you... Just like if you contaminate some disease, you must suffer. Similarly, if you contaminate sinful activity, then you must suffer. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. They have been delivered. So how they have been delivered? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. The living example is Jagāi and Mādhāi. What was the Jagāi-Mādhāi's fault that he's considered pāpī-tāpī? They were addicted to these four principles: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. They were addicted to these principles. They were born in high brāhmaṇa family, but by bad association they became drunkard number one, womanhunters, meat-eaters and gamblers and guṇḍās, like anything. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's process was that He used to send daily His devotees to go and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and preach Hare Kṛṣṇa just like we are trying to do here. We are sending our devotees. (aside:) You are going?

Woman: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: All right. So you wanted to talk with me?



Woman: Yes. If you come little earlier for...



Indian lady: Yes, I stopped here long time ago, about hour and twenty minutes.



Prabhupāda: When you came here?



Indian lady: I was here a long time ago.



Prabhupāda: No, why did you not see me in my apartment?



Devotee: She arrived at seven.



Prabhupāda: Oh, you came at seven. That time I was preparing to come here. Yes. So would you like to come tomorrow?



Indian lady: It's such a long (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Oh, then you cannot wait also just now?



Indian lady: I can wait, but...



Prabhupāda: If you like you can stay here, night, with the girls. Yes.



Indian lady: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Thursday? Yes. You can arrange with them if they go. Yes. So you make arrangement.



Indian lady: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: So you are staying this night here? No. You are going? All right. So actually, Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered such persons. Pāpī*-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. So why they are called pāpī-tāpī? The pāpīs, the sinful men, they never enjoy. Just like in New York you have seen in Bowery Street, the drunkard... what is called? Alcoholic bumpers? What do they call? What is the name?



Devotee: Bums.



Prabhupāda: Bums. Yes. The bums. Just see how nasty they are. They were lying down on the street, and as soon as get some money, immediately go to the wine shop, purchase one bottle, and not eating nicely, no dress, nothing of the... Many of them. The Bowery Street is famous for that purpose. So they are not happy, but they are thinking they are happy. This is māyā. (laughter) This is māyā. The materialistic persons, by engaging themselves in sinful activities, they are not happy, but they are thinking that "We are happy." In this European portion of the world, they are... We have experienced two big wars, and still, the war cloud is always there. Not only here, everywhere. So this materialistic civilization, actually people are not very happy. And as I have told you that people are going to live underground next hundred years. That means they'll lose this freedom of living in the free air for fear of this atomic attack. That is predicted in the World Almanac. We have seen, that people are going to live under. They'll... Sometimes they will come out to have fresh air in the surface. Otherwise, they will have to live underground.



*So actually we are, by advancing this materialistic way of life, for the time being we may feel happy, but we do not know how much risk we are taking in our life. That science is not yet discussed. That science is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā that if you hear also, we have begun, that this life is not meant for simply sense gratification with hard labor. No. This life is meant for restraining. Restraining. Tapa. We have to restrain our business of sense gratification. Without restraining our business of sense gratification, it is not possible to make ourselves liberated. That is not possible. This is entanglement. Sat-saṅga chāḍi' kainu asate vilās. If people give up the association of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society and they simply indulge in the sense gratificatory process, then more and more they'll be entangled. Sat-saṅga chāḍi' kainu asate vilās, te-kāraṇe lāgila ye karma-bandha-phāṅs. People are now entangled in hard working. Actually, human life should be very easy, very easy. No hard work. Living very simple life and eating very healthy food, living in open space, no quarrel, no antagonism, everyone is happy, everyone is free. That is human civilization. Not to become entangled. But at the present moment we have become entangled. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If we actually want liberation from this entanglement, then we should associate with mahātmās, great souls. And who is a great soul? That is being described.

*We have discussed some of the symptoms of great soul. The great soul is sama*-citta, equal to everyone. Great soul is never angry; *they are friend to everyone. And sādhava. Sādhava means sadācāra, clean habits. A mahātmā cannot be implicated with those four principles of sinful life. That is the first test. No illicit sex life, no gambling, no meat-eating, and no intoxication. This is called sadācāra, clean habit. Anything beyond this: unclean habit. Here it is stated, sādhava. Sādhava means sadācāra, clean habit. Then it is said, ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthāḥ. Now this mahātmā is specifically indicated for a sannyāsa, a perfect sannyāsī, renounced order. Their characteristics is that. And another mahātmā... Suppose one is in household life. Question may be whether a mahātmā can be in the household life or not. That is being described: Yes. In household life also there can be mahātmā. Just like Advaita Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu even, Nityānanda Mahāprabhu. They were all householders. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was a householder. He married twice. His first wife died*-He married for the second time. Regular householder, although He left household life very early. He was only twenty-four years old; therefore He had no children. But Nityānanda Prabhu had one child, Vīrabhadra, and Advaita Prabhu had two, three children, of which buddhi was very highly elevated. Similarly, Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura, he had children. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not say that one has to become in the renounced order or sannyāsī, then he becomes a mahātmā. No. We also do not propagate such idea. At least, I am not doing that. I am creating householder, ideal householder. And my ideas are being fruitful. Here in London I sent six householders, and they are doing nice, sincerely they are working. Therefore I am very much proud of them.

*So here is also the statement that even... It's not required that sannyāsī is only mahātmā, but a gṛhastha can be, is also mahātmā. So gṛhastha*-mahātmā, his symptoms are described: ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthāḥ. Their only business is to please Kṛṣṇa. That is the first qualification. They have no other business. Ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthāḥ. Then how they deal with others? A gṛhastha has to live... A sannyāsī may live alone in forest or in Himalaya or in a secluded place in Vṛndāvana or somewhere, but a gṛhastha, he has to deal with ordinary persons, so many others, businessmen or ordinary people. So that is stated here, that a gṛhastha-mahātmā, his first symptom is that he has no other business than to please Kṛṣṇa. That is his first business. And so far dealing with others, that is janeṣu dehambhara-vārtikeṣu gṛheṣu jāyātmaja-rātimatsu na prīti-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke. Very nice. What does he say? That people who are simply interested in maintaining this body and sense gratification, dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. Deha means this body, and bhara means maintaining, and vārtika means occupation.

*Now you analyze everyone in this world. What is their business? Their business is how to maintain this body. That's all. If you ask somebody, "My dear sir, what you are doing?" "Oh, I am doing this business." "Why you are doing this business?" "Oh, I must get money. Otherwise how can I maintain myself?" This is called dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu. Their only engagement is how to maintain this body. This is their business. So janeṣu dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. And gṛheṣu, a householder has got home. And jāyā, jāyā means wife. Ātmaja, ātmaja means children. Rāti, some money, bank balance or some wealth, rāti. Or persons who are engaged simply for the business of maintaining this body, their only business is how to maintain a home, how to maintain a wife, how to maintain children, how to have good bank balance. In this way their life is like that. But a householder who is mahātmā, whose only business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, for him, these things are not prīti-yuktāḥ, not very pleasing. Not very pleasing. Na prīti-yuktāḥ.

*Then what is their dealing? Yāvad*-arthāś ca loke. They deal as much as required only. That's all. I have to deal with some gentleman who is completely out of our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but I have to deal with him. Then how I have to deal? As much as possible to avoid him, but so far the business is concerned, all right. This is all. Just like a businessman talks with another businessman so far profit is concerned. That's all. No more talk. A businessman, a lawyer, talks with his client so much... Especially in America, they cannot waste their time. Any businessman will not waste their time. They will talk. Similarly, a householder devotee whose only business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, they will deal with other persons... Other person means those who are simply interested for maintaining this body, wife, children, in this way. They have no other ideas. We should not have any very intimate relationship, but we shall have to deal with them only as far necessary. No more. That's all. We shall try to avoid them as far as possible. But because we are living with the human society we have to deal with such persons. So our dealings should be so far as required. Not more than that. Then, if one lives a householder life in this way, keeping his viewpoint only in Kṛṣṇa, in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and other dealings superfluous, he is also mahātmā. He's also mahātmā. Na prīti-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke. Mayi īśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthāḥ puruṣārtha yeṣām.

A householder mahātmā has only one aim: how to attain the perfectional stage of love of God. That is the aim. Generally, a householder in the modern civilization, they are simply trying to accumulate money, increase the bank balance and make the society, friendship and love as the aim and object of life, and they have no other business. But a person who is mahātmā, his aim is different. His aim is "How to make my life perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How to please Kṛṣṇa, how to make friendship with Kṛṣṇa." Everyone is seeking some friend. That is a fact. The businessmen or lawyers or politicians, everyone is seeking some friend. Without friend... Society, friendship and love, these things are required. But a mahātmā householder, he is seeking actual friendship with Kṛṣṇa. Īśe sauhṛdārthāḥ. Because he knows, "If Kṛṣṇa is my friend..." Just like Arjuna sought friendship with Kṛṣṇa; Duryodhana sought friendship with Kṛṣṇa's power. Kṛṣṇa divided Himself. Because it was a family warfare between two cousin brothers, and Kṛṣṇa was also related with both of them by family relationship, so He said, "How can I take part with one and not with the other? Then that will be partiality. So anyway, I divide Myself into two. I am alone, one side, and in which side I shall go, I shall not fight. I shall not touch even a weapon. And the other side, all My soldiers." Kṛṣṇa had many soldiers. So Duryodhana thought that "I shall take Kṛṣṇa's soldiers," and Arjuna thought, "I shall take Kṛṣṇa only, even He does not fight."

So this is the determination of mahātmās, that they want simply Kṛṣṇa's friendship. Mayi sauhṛdārthāḥ.

*ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā

*janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu

*gṛheṣu jāyātmaja*-rātimatsu

*na prīti*-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke



*Yāvad*-arthāś ca loke, just to deal with other persons as much as necessary, not more than that. But to keep friendship with devotees, that is necessary. Not that I shall not intimately mix, intermingle with the devotees. That is required. A devotee has got four business: īśvare prīti, love for God, Kṛṣṇa; friendship with devotees; and kindness to the neophyte; and rejection to the nondevotees. These four principles. A devotee's only lovable object is Kṛṣṇa. His only friend is devotee, another devotee.



*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā

yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ



*Iśvare means kṛṣṇa*-prema, love, to love Kṛṣṇa. Maitrī means friendship. Maitrī with whom? Tad-adhīneṣu, those who are under the control of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is under the control of Kṛṣṇa by this way or that way, but those who are given to Kṛṣṇa voluntarily, surrendered souls, I am speaking of them. Tad-adhīneṣu. Everyone is... Just like any citizen in the state are under the control of the state rules and regulation. But some of them, they say, "I don't care for the government." So they are forced to obey the government laws in the prisonhouse. And the free citizens means who are voluntarily abiding by the laws of the state. Similarly, any living entity is under the laws of God. There is no doubt about it. But those who are voluntarily accepting the laws of God and giving service to the Supreme Lord, they are called devotees. And those who have revolted, and being forced by māyā to abide by the laws of God, they are called nondevotees.



This is the difference between devotees and nondevotees. But both the devotees and nondevotees, they must obey the laws of Kṛṣṇa. There is no exception. There is no exception. This is māyā. He is being forced, the nondevotee is being forced to act. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. He's under the spell of the modes of material nature, and he's being forced to act under the spell of material nature, but he is thinking, "I am free. I don't care for God." This is called māyā. He is being kicked by māyā, but he'll not agree to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. He'll agree to be kicked by māyā. That is his business. That he will agree. "Yes, let me be kicked by māyā." So nobody is free. By constitutional position nobody is free from the laws of God. But those who are voluntarily accepting, they are devotees. And those who are not accepting, falsely declaring themselves independent, they are nondevotees. This is the difference. Any question? Uttamaśloka, you were not here? I did not see you.

Uttamaśloka: I was in town, kind of urgent.



Prabhupāda: Ācchā. So, any question on these topics? Question means on the topics. Not other things, outside.



Śyāmasundara: What is gambling?



Prabhupāda: Gambling you do not know? You never played gambling?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: They why do you...?



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes, gambling means betting. That is gambling. People are betting. You put one dollar, and if you gain, you get ten dollars. Otherwise, you lose this one dollar. This is gambling. They're gambling in Christian churches also, in the Western countries. So gambling is considered sinful activity. I do not know... One Mr. Bhattacarya, a barrister, he was educated in England. So he told there is some island, Monte Christo? There is gambling?



Devotee: Monte Carlo.



Prabhupāda: Monte Carlo, yes. He said that there are gamblers, and one gambler loses everything, he commits suicide, immediately, and he'll go on. That's all. Nobody cares for him. He told me. It is a fact? So just see the gambling. They bring all their fortunes to stake and they lose everything. And then, out of frustration, takes revolver and shots himself, dies, and it is thrown on the street or in somewhere. Nobody cares. Just like cats and dogs. So there is free gambling in Monte Carlo?



Devotee: Very, very wealthy people, they (indistinct) there.



Devotee: There is free gambling in London.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, everywhere. Any big city. In Calcutta, Bombay, everyone gambling. When you get money, then gambling. The horse race is also gambling. Horse race. This gambling, drinking, meat*-eating, these things were all unknown in India. They did not know how to drink. These Britishers introduced. There is still a lane, a street, Porterly Street. There was a woman of suspicious character. She was supplied big bottles of wine, and she used to canvass rich men's son to take wine, and it was distributed free. In this way wine was distributed, and people began to drink, gradually. And I have seen a tea set committee. They... Advertising tea, preparing tea nicely. "You take this tea, you'll not feel hungry, you'll be cured from malaria...," and so many things. And people come and take tea in this way. Now any man is taking tea. In the morning they'll gather in the tea stall. You see. So people, they did not know what is gambling, what is drinking, what is meat-eating. So these things were introduced gradually. Still, no rigid Hindu house will allow meat cooking in the house, still. No. If you want to if you want to eat meat, you can go to hotel, but at home you cannot cook, meat-eating.



Yamunā: Guru Mahārāja, in our missionary work, if we're forced to live with (indistinct), should we just talk about that same topic or should we avoid the (indistinct) at all?



Prabhupāda: No. If we can find out a suitable place; *but it is difficult nowadays. That we have to tolerate. What can be done? Let others do whatever they like. We can preach that "Do not do it," but you cannot force, because the whole world has gone in these four principles of life, this eating, meat*-eating, drinking, gambling. And so our regulation is very strict. You see? If we say that "You do whatever you like," then many people may come and join. (laughter) But we are not going to say that. We... Our principle is that better not to have any cow than to have a cow, disturb him. You see? Ekaś candras tamo hanti. If one person can understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness science, in future there is hope that he can make many other persons to this knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Although it is very difficult. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu [Bg. 7.3]. But if you can deliver even one man in your life, then you'll be doing a great service for Kṛṣṇa. It is not required that you have to deliver hundreds and hundreds of men, so-called. No. If you can train only one man, that's a great service to Kṛṣṇa. You saved one man from the clutches of māyā. It is so nice thing. So do it peacefully, and as far as possible. People may accept or not accept, but we shall do our duty. That's all. But why will not accept? You have accepted it. You were also addicted to these habits, but you have accepted it. Similarly others may accept. We have to do it. Yes, what is your question?



Devotee: Prabhupāda, I'm a devotee. So far myself, I got into a situation where I have to, where I work, where there are many people who are not devotees, but they are (indistinct) the minute they wouldn't listen I would tolerate māyā. (indistinct) Sometimes I thought that it is necessary to go out and...



Prabhupāda: Well, preaching work should be done in company. You..., alone you cannot make preaching work. It is not possible. You haven't got so much strength that alone you can do. Therefore whenever we send our preaching party, they go in company, in combination. Six, seven, eight..., at least two. That is the process. And so far mixing with other people, that I have already explained just now, that to talk with a person is not mixing. You see? Mixing means, intimate mixing, there are six symptoms. When you eat, when you call him to eat, when you give, when you take, when you talk your heart, when you hear his heart. These are called intimate mixing. Otherwise, simply talking or dealing, that is not mixing. That is not mixing. So you can mix with ordinary people in that way. As far as your business is concerned, as it is necessary, but not intimately. And do your own business, chanting, and following the rules and regulations. That's all. It is simple thing. Just like doctors. They also mix with infected persons, but they do not become infected. You see. So preaching is like that. Unless you preach among the fallen souls, then where is the question of preaching? So you should not become fallen. (laughs) You should deliver the fallen. That should be your strength. But if you are less powerful, then you will become fallen. So your power is, your strength is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, strong Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be powerful. You'll not fall. So we should be careful. All right. So little chanting? (devotees offer obeisances) Mukunda has not come back? Why he is so late? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nobody has come back from London? You are coming from the temple, Uttamaśloka? You are coming from the temple, Jim? Oh, you are living here. All right. (end)





750411SB.HYD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.2

-

Hyderabad, April 11, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



*Last night we had discussion on the first verse, Fifth Chapter, Fifth Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. We have to purify our existence. This is the mission of human life. At the present moment we are transmigrating from one body to another, and there are 8,400,000 species of life we are going through according to karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. How we develop a certain type of body, that is stated-everything is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam*-by our karma. I have explained last night, it is just like infection. We are associating with different types of the modes of material nature. Generally there are three types of material nature, three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now, you multiply these three by three: it becomes nine. And again you multiply nine by nine: it becomes eighty-one. It is mixture. Here these guṇas, the qualities, are not pure. They are mixed up. Just like color mixing. Originally there are three colors: red, yellow and blue. And you mix it... Those who are color expert, they can display many thousands of colors. So similarly, in the nature's way there are different colors or different guṇas, and every one of us, we have got a particular type of guṇa with different desires, different plans, different so many things. Now, in the human form of life, you have got the chance to discriminate yourself or separate yourself from these colorful different species of life. That is the main duty of human form of life. Labdhvā sudurlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte [SB 11.9.29]. We do not know, we have forgotten that how many species of life we have come through, transmigrating from one after another. Therefore this human form of life is called labdhvā sudurlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many births... We should not misuse it. Very responsible life. If you are misled, that is a dangerous civilization. That is going on. Dehātma-buddhi. As our chief guest Mr. Naidu(?) said, that deha means śarīra, mind, and then spirit. Yes.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is explained,

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



*First of all, we are interested with these senses. This body means the senses, different types of senses. Sense objects, the mind. They have twenty*-four elements analyzed by the Sāṅkhya philosophy. So when we think of our body, means we are interested with sense gratification. Then, a little forward, we are interested with the mind. First of all body, this gross body made of five, earth, air, fire, water, and ether. Then we become interested with the mental speculation, psychology-thinking, feeling, willing. So indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ [Bg. 3.42]. Mind. The mental speculators, the jñānīs, they are better than the karmīs. Karmīs means who are simply entrapped with this sensual gratification, that's all. So, jñānī, karmī, jñānī, and yogi, and then, when one is interested with the spirit soul and spirit soul's activities, then he is bhakta. That is... Actually the basic principle of activity is the soul. As soon as the soul is gone, there is no more activity, either mental activity or bodily activity. So if we want actually progress of life, then we must realize our constitutional position as the spirit soul, not as the mind, not as the body.



Therefore śāstra said,

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go*-khara. Go means cow, and khara means ass. If one is under the bodily concept of life, ātma-buddhi, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu... This body is made of three dhātus: kapha, pitta, vāyu. If we take this body, this bag made of bones and flesh and blood and urine and stool and so many other things, muscles... Kuṇape tri-dhātuke... This is a material bag. And if one takes this bag as he himself, then, according to that conception of life, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu... [SB 10.84.13]. Kalatra means wife, and through wife there are children, society, friendship and love and so many things. Sva-dhīḥ. And that is our own thing. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ. The nationalism is also like that. Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ: and the land of birth as worshipable. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. This bhauma ijya-dhīḥ is nationalism. Of course, there is no such thing in the Vedic literature as nationalism. This is modern product. But this word is there, bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, the land of birth... That is also explained in some other Vedic literature, jananī janma-bhūmiś ca svargād api garīyasi(?). People like it, but this is... All are on the bodily concept of life.



*So one has to go above. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ... [Bg. 3.42]. Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ manasas tu parā buddhiḥ. That intelligence required. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, one of the chief disciples of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was the chief minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah, and he was born in a very high-class brāhmaṇa family, sārasvata family, and he was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Urdu and Arabic, very learned scholar. So when he submitted himself after resigning his post as minister, submitted to Lord Caitanya, he put this question, that grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni. A brāhmaṇa... Still in our India, a brāhmaṇa is addressed as paṇḍita. Brāhmaṇa means paṇḍita. Brāhmaṇa-paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa-vaiṣṇava, that a... Learned scholar. So in the society he was addressed as "Paṇḍitajī." So he protested against it. He said to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, grāmya-vyavahāre: "In ordinary behavior they call me 'paṇḍita.' " Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni: "And I am such a fool that I accept myself also as a paṇḍita." It is his humbleness. He was paṇḍita, certainly. But he says, "Why I am not paṇḍita?" Because āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: "I am such a learned scholar that I do not know what is actually good for me. This is my learning. And I have become a leader. I do not know what is the aim of my life, what is my identification. People address me as paṇḍita, and I take it as fact. But actually I am not a paṇḍita. I do not know what I am. I am thinking I am this body. I am thinking I am this mind."

So that is our position.

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*We should know "What I am." That is Vedānta*-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is human life. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. These dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90], the Bhāgavata has rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. Atra, dharmādi-kāma-mokṣa-projjhitaḥ. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita-thrown away. Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī, the most authorized commentator of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said, atra mokṣa-vāñchā api nirastam(?). Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra, that is also kaitava. Kaitava means cheating. Above that, above mokṣa, that is spiritual platform. That is to be understood.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*After realizing Brahman identification, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is called brahma*-bhūta [SB 4.30.20]. And the symptom of that brahma-bhūta stage is na śocati na kāṅkṣati. There is no more lamentation. So long we are in the bodily platform, there are two things prominent, lamentation and aspiration, hankering, two things. We hanker after things which we do not possess, and what we possess, if we lose, then we cry. This is our position. So if actually he's Brahman realized, then he has no more hankering or lamentation. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Then samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then, from that platform, you can think of equality, not on the material platform. It is not possible.



*So long we are in this material platform, bodily concept of life, then there will be distinction: "I am Indian," "You are American," "You are Englishman," "You are this," "...that," so many things, so many designations. Therefore, if you want to rise up to the platform of spiritual realization, then the formula is sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That is the beginning. That means beginning is the brahma-bhūta platform. Brahma-bhūta... [SB 4.30.20]. Same thing. It is, Nārada-pañcarātra, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam, and brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], Bhagavad-gītā, the same thing. Wherever you find the Vedic literature, the same thing. Therefore it is authority. There is no contradiction. In the material platform you write one book, I write one book, then I disagree with you, and you disagree with me. That is material platform. But in the spiritual platform, there is self-realized platform. There is no mistake, there is no illusion, there is no imperfect senses and there is no cheating. That is spiritual platform. So the Bhagavad-gītā says, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. The same thing is confirmed in the Nārada-pañcarātra:

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



This is the platform we have to come, spiritual platform, wherein hṛṣīkeṇa...



Hṛṣīka means the senses, the material senses and the spiritual senses. So what is the spiritual senses? Spiritual sense is not senselessness. No. Purified senses. In the impurified senses I am thinking, "This body is Indian; therefore I am meant for serving India," "This body is American; *therefore I am meant for giving service to America." This is upādhi. But spiritual sense means the sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam-"I am no more Indian, no more American, no more brāhmaṇa, no more śūdra." Then what I am? As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, as Kṛṣṇa also said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... [Bg. 18.66]. That is spiritual platform, that "I am no more belonging to this dharma or that dharma. I am simply surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa." This is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If one can come to this platform of spiritual understanding, that "I am spirit soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am part and parcel of God..." Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Kṛṣṇa says, "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: [Bg. 15.7] "He is struggling for existence, being enwrapped by the mind and the body." This is the position.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "You are not this body, not this mind, not this intelligence, but above this. You are spirit soul." So Kṛṣṇa confirms that mamaivāṁśa. So if Kṛṣṇa is spirit, supreme spirit, then you are also supreme spirit. But the only difference is that He is the supreme; *we are subordinate. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti... (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This is Vedic injunction. He's also living entity, we are also living entity, but He is supreme and we are subordinate. That is the difference. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. This is our position. This is self*-realization. When you understand this, that "Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, or God, whatever you say, He's the whole spirit soul, and we are fragmental portion of that spirit soul, and He's the maintainer; we are maintained. He is the predominator; *we are predominated," So this is first realization. This is called brahma*-bhūta. And if you make more advance in brahma-bhūta stage, then maybe after many births you can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is the, ver... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. When one is perfectly jñānavān, wise, then his business is vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Then he can understand that Vāsudeva, the son of Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything. That realization required. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So this movement is very scientific, authorized, Vedic, and people are accepting them. Therefore I repeatedly request our Indian brothers, "Don't neglect. Take this movement very seriously." That is the only business of human life. Jīvasya tattva*-jijñāsā. That is...

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*Tattva-jijñāsā, that is the main business. Now, what is that tattva? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam: [SB 1.2.11] "Those who are aware of the tattva, they say that tattva means the Supreme Absolute Truth." Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. Jñānam, that knowledge, is advaya. Advaya means without any duality. But they are expressed in three different ways-Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān-brahmeti paramātmeti, according to the stage of understanding. Those who are in the lower stage-we cannot say lower*-in the beginning stage, that is Brahman realization. And one who has made further progress, that is Paramātmā realized. And one who has made further progress, that is Bhagavān realization. This is the verdict. So if you realize Bhagavān, then vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Then you'll understand that Vāsudeva, Bhagavān, He is Paramātmā. He's also Brahman. Rather, He is Parabrahman.



*That is confirmed by Arjuna after understanding Bhagavad*-gītā. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Parabrahman, Brahman realization; Paramātmā realization; *and above Brahman and Paramātmā there is Parabrahman. That is Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa... [Bg. 7.19]. Who can understand? One, if he... If one understands this, that Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman*-vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]-He's also Paramātmā, He's also impersonal Brahman-sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: "He becomes the great mahātmā." Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. That mahātmā is under the control of daivī-prakṛti, spiritual energy. He's no more under the material energy. As soon as he understands Kṛṣṇa-vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]-he's no more under material energy.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



This is the way.



*So this human form of life is very valuable, especially those who are born in India. Those who are born in India, it is automatically Kṛṣṇa conscious. Unfortunately, we are killing that consciousness. This is our advancement of civilization. So our only request is that "Don't kill yourself. Don't commit suicide. Take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness." It is explained very nicely in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. Why should we not understand Kṛṣṇa? Why? Why we are spoiling our life? Of course, Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. Practically everyone reads. But unfortunately they do not... Most of them, they do not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is the difficulty. If you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, you become self-realized liberated soul. But the misfortune is that we become more than Kṛṣṇa, and we want to comment Bhagavad-gītā in our own way. That is our misfortune. (applause) That is our misfortune.

*So don't be misfortunate. Be fortunate. Everything is there. Try to understand Bhagavad*-gītā. And here, in the Fifth Chapter, Fifth Canto, of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the same thing is recommended by Ṛṣabhadeva to his sons. The first paragraph we have discussed last night. The second paragraph, the Ṛṣabhadeva says, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want to be liberated from this entanglement of bodily concept of life and mental concept of life and become more and more entangled in the process of transmigration of the soul from one body to another... That is entanglement. And to come out of this entanglement is called mukti. That is mukti: no more material body, no more material mind-everything is spiritual. That is called mukti. So Ṛṣabhadeva recommends that if you want mukti, if you want to come out of the entanglement of bodily concept of life and mental concept of life, then mahat-sevā: associate with mahātmās. Mahat. Mahat means who are not crippled, who are broad-minded. Mahat-sevā. You have to serve him. In the... One Vaiṣṇava ācārya, he says, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā nistāra pāyeche kebā. If you do not agree to serve mahat... That is the Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. This is the injunction. So mahat-sevā, the same thing. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram. Dvāram means the way, the gate, the gateway. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want to be free from this entanglement...

*It is very great shackle, repetition of birth and death, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. One should understand this implication, how we are implicated. We are thinking, "Now I am very happy." No, next moment you can become a low*-graded body because karmaṇā daiva... If we are acting in a different way, the nature's way is to give you... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Guṇa-saṅga. As we are associating, infecting the different types of material modes of nature, the body is ready immediately. Everything is explained. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. At the time of death everything will be, I mean to say, the atmosphere of our death. So, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. If you have acted like devas or bhaktas, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: [Bg. 4.9] you can immediately transfer to the spiritual world, go to Kṛṣṇa, go to Vaikuṇṭha. Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. If you are thinking of some demigods whom you are worshiping, you can go there. Bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, then you go immediately. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Everything is there.

*So why should we waste our time? Why we should be entangled in this bodily concept of life and become subjected to the transmigration of the soul from one body to another? We should be disgusted, this repetition of birth and death. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. One should be intelligent enough to understand, "Why I should be subjected to birth and death?" Nobody wants to die. Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. Nobody wants the threefold miserable condition of this material life, but it is forced upon us, and we are thinking "Independent." That is foolishness. We are not independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. As you are associating with the different modes of material nature, the prakṛti, material nature, by pulling your ear, "You'll come on here. Take this body." "No, I don't want." "No, that is not your discretion. Now you have infected, you see. You must take this body." This risk is there. And just to forget ourself we sometimes say, "No, there is no life after death." Why there is no life after death? You were a child. The child became a boy, the boy became a young man, the young man became an old man, and what is the old man? He must have a body, next body. That is not simply mental speculation. This is confirmed by the most exalted authority, by Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. As you have changed your body in so many ways from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, then, similarly, dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

*Now, Kṛṣṇa does not say what kind of body you are going to get. That will depend on your work. Just like this is described as the dress. Now, if this dress is spoiled or torn, you have to purchase another dress. That will depend on your purchasing power. Similarly, after this dress is spoiled, no more usable, you have to purchase another body. That may be a dog's body or a god's body*-that depends on your purchasing power. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. There are deva-lokas, Indraloka, Candraloka, Brahmaloka, so many, millions of years' age, a thousand times better standard of life. That also you can get. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. And if you are in the karma-kāṇḍīya, then you can go to the pitṛ-loka. And bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni: and if you remain a materialistic person, you remain here. And mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām: and if you worship Kṛṣṇa, if you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then you go to Kṛṣṇaloka. So why should we waste our time? Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Even if you go, promoted to the Brahmaloka, still, you have to wander within these so many planets, so many bodies. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*In this way we are wandering, different 8,400,000 species of life in different planets. Out of many, many millions of living entities wandering in this way, if one is fortunate, he gets the seed of bhakti*-yoga. Then his life is successful.



*So that bhakti-yoga-Kṛṣṇa consciousness means bhakti-yoga*-by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu we are distributing. We are distributing not whimsically, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted it.

*bhārata*-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is injunction. This is also injunction of Kṛṣṇa. What Kṛṣṇa said, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said the same thing. The difference is that Kṛṣṇa commanded as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu*-He's also Kṛṣṇa-He's teaching as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. The same thing. Kṛṣṇa said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], and Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He never said that "Whatever I am saying, you say." No, this is not paramparā system. A guru or a preacher or an ācārya does not manufacture anything concocted. He says the same thing. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. That is the difference between ācārya and a bogus man. A bogus man says something, that "Now I say like this." No, who are you? No. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, Kṛṣṇa says. We have to accept that. So, therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says that mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want to be free from this entanglement, then mahat-sevā. Who is mahat, mahat-sevā? That is also stated in the śāstra:



svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



There are twelve mahājanas. Svayambhū, Lord Brahmā; Nārada Muni; *and Śambhu, Lord Śiva. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Kapila, Kapiladeva, who gave us the Sāṅkhya philosophy, Devahūti*-putra Kapiladeva, Devahūti-putra; and Kumāra, Catuḥsana Kumāra; Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. Manu... Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha [Bg. 4.1]. This Manu is mahājana. So we have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You cannot manufacture. Then you are going to hell. Follow these big, big personalities. Then you'll get.



*Therefore it is said, mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. Don't manufacture. That is not... Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. You cannot say, "Then any path will be easy." No. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then you have to accept bhakti, nothing else. Kṛṣṇa never says jñāna or yoga or karma will help you. No, that will not help. That will entangle you more and more-again repetition of birth and death. But if you take bhakti-yoga as Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]... He never says, Kṛṣṇa, that "By mental speculation or by fruitive activities or by gymnastic of the yoga system..." No. Yoginām api sarveṣām. Kṛṣṇa has explained yoga system in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. And He concludes,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*"He's first*-class yogi who is always thinking of Me within the heart." Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This is perfection. Thank you very much. [break]



*Guest (1): Brahma*-sūtra, as propounded by Vyāsa is one. It is only one. But after reading Brahma-sūtra, the bhāṣyas, Śaṅkara-bhāṣya, Madhva-bhāṣya, and Śrī-bhāṣya as written by Rāmānujācārya, all these things differ in many ways, and they leave us confused to know what is actually existing. Am I to follow this or that or this? Because "Jagat is mithyā," it is said by Śaṅkarācārya. Madhvācārya says, "It's not mithyā. It is realistic." It's contradiction. And Rāmānuja used another way of explanation, that he says, "It is that, and it is this." And in that way, tava dāsaḥ aham, Madhvācārya says, "I am your slave." Tava dāsaḥ aham, tava dāso 'ham. But Śaṅkarācārya says, "No. Ātmā itself is Paramātmā. There is no question of his saying, tava dāso 'ham." Like that, jagan mithyā, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. And then we see, as propounded by Śaṅkarācārya, as explained by Śaṅkarācārya, the same it is said by Madhvācārya as jagat satyam and brahma satyam: "Both are satya." And when Śaṅkarācārya says that jagan mithyā brahma satyam, the same Brahma-sūtra it is taken up by Madhvācārya in a different way. He says jagan mithyā, er, I'm sorry, jagat satyam and brahma satyam. And Rāmānuja says in a different way again, most confusing, he says at some stage, "It is realistic, and at a different stage it becomes unrealistic." So, in so many factors, I find that there are so many contradictions there. If you kindly clarify the matter in a very clear and straightforward manner, I will be and people will be much obliged to you. So Swamiji will have to say something about this, whether the world is temporary, or whether the world is unrealistic or not, or is it realistic. And if it is realistic, why Śaṅkarācārya has said that it is mithyā, and Rāmānujācārya says, "At one stage it is realistic, and after some stage it becomes unrealistic"? And therefore I want clarification so that I can understand.



Prabhupāda: The Śaṅkarācārya is accepted as Māyāvādī because these Māyāvādī philosophers, they think everything is māyā; *even Kṛṣṇa is māyā. So, our Caitanya Mahāprabhu... We belong to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu belongs to Madhvācārya*-sampradāya. As I have already explained, there are mahājanas. So all mahājanas, they have got different sampradāyas. Just like Lord Brahmā, he has got his sampradāya; *it is called Brahma*-sampradāya. Similarly, Lord Śiva has his sampradāya; *it is called Rudra*-sampradāya. Lakṣmījī has got his (her) sampradāya; *it is called Śrī*-sampradāya. So śāstra says that śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. You hear different types of philosophy from different sources. Na cāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. One cannot be accepted as a great saintly person unless he puts forward his own theory. Therefore mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to accept the mahājana. Now, apart from accepting mahājana, we have to use our senses also. Of course, unless we are advanced in our sensual speculation, that is also not possible. But one common sense is: if brahma-satyam, how jagat can be mithyā? It is a common sense. The brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā... This jagat is created by Brahman. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahman means... What is that Brahman? The original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Why jagat should be mithyā? Huh? Suppose somebody has created this microphone with hard labor, and if I say, "This is all mithyā," is it very good thing? If Kṛṣṇa has created...



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the origin of everything," the same answer. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Who is that person from whom everything has come into existence? So if Kṛṣṇa is fact, Brahman, then He says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ, "I am the origin of everything," how other things can be false? No. We do not accept this philosophy. If Kṛṣṇa is truth, then this world is also truth. It may be temporary*-bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]-but it is not untruth. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore has criticized Śaṅkarācārya, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] "If you accept Māyāvāda philosophy, then your progress is doomed, finished." This is the...



So we are follower of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We do not accept this Śaṅkara's philosophy, that the world is mithyā. No. It is fact. It is fact. Because unless it... But the vision is different. Vision is different. That is called māyā. What is the fact? The fact: this world is created by Kṛṣṇa, or God; therefore it is God's property. But we are thinking our property. That is false. That is the meaning of Śaṅkarācārya's..., that you are thinking that it is your country. No. It is Kṛṣṇa's country. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Why you are falsely claiming your and fighting yourself? This is false. Not the world is false, but the acceptance of the world falsely, that is false. Not the world is false. That is fact.

*So we must have common sense to understand and understand through other sources also. As Madhvācārya says, "No, jagat satyam, that is fact." How you can say this jagat is false? It is not false. Besides that, that Vyāsadeva, he's the compiler of Vedānta*-sūtra, and he has commented himself about Vedānta-sūtra. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. And at the end of each chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you'll find, brahma-sūtrasya bhāṣya. So, when the author is giving a commentary personally, we should accept that. Why others? So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural commentary given by Vyāsadeva. We should accept. And it begins... Because it is commentary on Brahma-sūtra, therefore it begins with the sūtra, Brahma-sūtra: janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. This is the explanation. So the conclusion is that we Vaiṣṇavas, we do not say that this jagat is mithyā. No. The jagat is satyam. Unless the jagat is satyam, how we are approaching God, the Absolute Truth through this material, I mean to say, world. How it is possible? You cannot approach the truth through false thing. That is not possible.

Therefore our Gosvāmīs' conclusion is that,

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

*hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

vairāgyaṁ phalgu kathyate



*This is the definition given by Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī. The prāpañcikatayā buddhyā... This world is material. Therefore it is false. So... But hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. But it has got connection with Hari. Hari has created. Kṛṣṇa has created. How...? It is not without... How you can say, "without any relationship"? If I have created something, it has got..., I have got intimate relationship. Therefore the Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "Any creation of the Lord, if we think it is material," prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ... Those who are... Because these Māyāvādīs, they are after mumukṣā, so mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ, if they are giving up, then phalgu-vairāgya. It is called phalgu-vairāgya, false renunciation. The world is not false, but the so-called renunciation is false. But the real fact is... Rūpa Gosvāmī says that,



anāsaktasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

*nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe

yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate



*Anāsaktasya viṣayān. We are after sense enjoyment. That is called viṣaya. Viṣaya means the object of sense gratification. So we should not be very much eager to enjoy. God's creation should be engaged for God's enjoyment, not for my enjoyment. If we are trained up in this way, anāsaktasya viṣayān, we can take prasādam. We have to eat also. But if we think that "These things are made for me. I have to eat," then that is mithyā. "This is given by God, given by Kṛṣṇa, so let me offer it to Kṛṣṇa: 'Kṛṣṇa, it is Your thing. You first of all taste. Then I'll take it.' " Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. "As it is. But Your thing should be offered to You, and then I shall take." That is yukta*-vairāgya. There are many other things that this kind of false identification...



*So many Māyāvādīs, they first of all say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but after few days, again they come to this jagat and become interested in so*-called material service because he could not realize Brahman. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They may rise up to the paraṁ padam, brahma-pada, but anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, because they could not take up the service of the lotus feet of the Lord, they fall down. There are many instances, many sannyāsīs. They give up this world as mithyā and again come to politics, again come to philanthropic work. Why? If jagat is mithyā, why you are coming to politics and philanthropic work? That is āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Again they fall down.

*So there are many controversial points. It may take long hours. But so far we are, Vaiṣṇava are, concerned, we don't accept that this world is false. No. Everything is meant for Kṛṣṇa's service. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor. And He is the bhoktā. So don't try to enjoy this world. That is false. Everything engaged for Kṛṣṇa's*-that is reality. So jagat is not unreal. Our attitude, our mentality, is unreal, that "The whole world is for my enjoyment." No. The creator says, bhoktā aham: "I am enjoyer." Why you are claiming you are enjoyer? That is your false claim. So jagat is not false, but our claim to enjoy the jagat, that is false. So we have to convert it, that it is enjoyable by Kṛṣṇa. Then you come to reality.

*Thank you very much. (applause) [break] All the poverty*-stricken people may come to us. We shall supply prasādam. That is the solution. Come on. We shall supply you.

Acyutānanda: (reading question) "After physical death, the soul will take birth as per the saṁskāras, or past deeds. So what made the soul take birth in the very beginning?"



Prabhupāda: What is that? Very beginning?



Acyutānanda: "After the physical death of the body, the soul will take birth as per the past deeds."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Acyutānanda: So what made the soul take birth in the first place?



Prabhupāda: In the first place?



Acyutānanda: What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Prema*-vivarta:



*kṛṣṇa*-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare

*nikaṭa*-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare

*(Prema*-vivarta)



*As soon as... We are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got independence. Because, Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]*-we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa-so Kṛṣṇa has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence. Our business is to serve Kṛṣṇa, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth.



Acyutānanda: "India is the motherland for Kṛṣṇa cult and needs no propaganda. You'll be doing more service for the Kṛṣṇa cult if you demonstrate against America for helping Christian missionaries in India. Please enlighten me."



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa never says, "I am for Indian" or "for American." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya. (applause)



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



Kṛṣṇa is father of all living entities in any form of life, not only human, but the cats, dogs, and everyone. He is the father of all living entities.



Acyutānanda: "Why doesn't the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement stop cow slaughter? Five thousand cows are slaughtered daily. Why?"



Prabhupāda: Then? Why?



Acyutānanda: Cows are slaughtered.



Prabhupāda: You are killing cows? Or what is that?



Guest (2): Why doesn't Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement stop cow slaughter? Every day five thousand cows are being slaughtered.



Prabhupāda: Yes, we are teaching don't eat meat. So don't eat meat means don't slaughter cows and goats and everyone. You are after stopping cow slaughter, but you are advocating goat slaughter. But we are not for any slaughter. Don't eat meat, that's all.



Acyutānanda: "If everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then how will they make a living?"



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, yoga*-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. He is... Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's supplying everyone. So we have got ten thousand disciples all over the world. Mostly they are Europeans and Americans and Australians. Their expenditure is very heavy. How Kṛṣṇa is supplying, you can see. We are spending ten lakhs of rupees per month, and Kṛṣṇa is supplying.



Acyutānanda: "Did you ever see the lotus Lord or feel His presence?"



Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?



Devotee: Do you ever feel Kṛṣṇa's presence, or see Him?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, you can feel also. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. This is the formula of seeing Kṛṣṇa:



*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*If you have developed your love of Kṛṣṇa, then you'll see Him twenty*-four hours. Just like you, if you love somebody, you'll always think of him. That is natural. So the first qualification is whether you have developed that love for Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll see twenty-four hours.



Acyutānanda: "What is the easiest method of attaining mokṣa while in family life?"



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Haṁsadūta: (repeats question)



Prabhupāda: That is not recommended in the Vedic śāstra (laughter). Especially Śaṅkarācārya, he would not accept anyone unless he accepts sannyāsa. He never accepts anybody.



Acyutānanda: "There are many religious movements, how does Kṛṣṇa consciousness take priority?"



Prabhupāda: Because it is Kṛṣṇa's movement. He is the topmost. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no more superior truth than Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the supreme truth. There is no more superior truth than Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Acyutānanda: "When a person dies, his soul will take another body? Then why is the population today increasing?"



*Prabhupāda: Because they are blocked*-up, bottle-necked. They are not going back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore it is crowded. (laughter)



Acyutānanda: "Why does Kṛṣṇa allow us to commit mistakes and later punishes us?"



*Prabhupāda: That is His mercy. You want to do something bad, Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't do it," but if you want to do it at your risk, Kṛṣṇa allows, "All right, do it, and suffer yourself." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He does not say anything. But if you want to do something else, do it at your risk. That's all right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





750412SB.HYD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.2

-

Hyderabad, April 12, 1975



(begins with short conversation before class)

*Prabhupāda: ...interpretation... First thing is that why interpretation if the meaning is straight? Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1], and somebody's interpreting dharmakṣetra means this body. Why this interpretation? Eh? The dharmakṣetra, Kurukṣetra, is still existing, the station is there, people are going as dharmakṣetra. Kurukṣetre dharmam ācaret, this is the Vedic instruction, that everyone should go to Kurukṣetra and perform ritualistic duties. That is being done, and it is written dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre, why interpretation? (exchange with a guest in Hindi) You are more than Kṛṣṇa? You are so... You have got capacity to speak more than Kṛṣṇa? (exchange in Hindi) Interpretation... (exchange in Hindi) We are discussing the same thing. We go or not go. (everyone laughs) You are a young man. Therefore I'm requesting you, "Don't be misled by these blind leaders. Take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and you'll be happy." (exchange in Hindi) The meaning is clear, very clear. No question of interpretation. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



*So the first proposal was that this human form of life is not to be wasted like cats and dogs. This is the first proposal by Ṛṣabha. He was advising His sons, "My dear boys, don't waste your, this valuable life like cats and dogs and hogs." This are the Actually, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness our life is no better than the dogs' and hogs'. That's a fact. That is the beginning of this instruction, nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujaṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. The dogs and hogs, they will try whole day and night for eating purposes and sense gratification. Why the human society should be like that? So these things can be learned by mahat-sevā. Therefore this Vedic civilization that first of all send the children for mahat-sevā, brahmacārī. Mahat-sevā, that is the essential part of human life. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. To make this human life successful, to understand the value of life, to understand what I am, one must approach, go to gurukula. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. This abhigacchet, this form of verb is used when it is called vidhi-liṅ, must! There is no option. I may go or I may not go. No. One must. That is human life. That is the instruction of Vedic śāstra.



*In Prahlāda Mahārāja's teaching also... At childhood he was five-years-old boy, and he was teaching to his class friend, "My dear friend, that kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]." He was teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness as soon as he was getting little opportunity. In the tiffin hour, when the teachers are gone, he'd immediately stand up and preach to his friends, "My dear friends, begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this point. Although you are very small boys, still we have to begin here." kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. "Why so quickly? Let us become old and feeble and I'll not be able to do anything. Then I'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." "No," he says no immediately. Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. "You do not know when you shall die. So before the next step comes, complete your Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This is the business. Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. Where is that education now? This is misleading civilization. They do not know the value of life. They are simply wasting time for sense gratification. That's all. No. This is not. The Bhāgavata-dharma means children should be taught from the very beginning of life. That is Vedic civilization. The children should go... Even Kṛṣṇa, although He's God, He was also sent to gurukula, and He was collecting dry wood from the forest for guru, learning how to serve guru. The guru must be also bona fide. Therefore it is recommended, mahat-sevā. mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. That is the Vedic civilization. One must approach a mahānta. Mahānta. This whole world is illusion and one who is above this illusion is called mahānta, one who has ended the illusion. Samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12], one should approach a guru who is brahma-niṣṭham. Brahma-niṣṭham means fully fixed up in Brahman understanding because life is meant for brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life, this human form of life, is meant for inquiring about Brahman, not for anything else. Anything else-Where is food? Where is shelter? Where is sex? Anybody's different?*-this is animal life. Above this, when we, in human life, our main business is brahma-jijñāsā. Not that "Where is food?" "Where is shelter?" "Where is sex?" and "Where is difference?" These are animal propensities, animal inquiries.

*So I've repeatedly saying the same thing*-that Indian civilization is different from others. We should stick to our own culture. That is the prerogative that I am repeatedly speaking, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message:

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Anyone who has taken birth in this holy land of Bhārata-varṣa, he has got special advantage. He has got special advantage in this, that he can learn all this Vedic literature, mahat-sevā. Then he makes his life perfect. He understands what is his life, what is the value of this life, why he's suffering, how to mitigate it. This is, these things are required, and when one is very versed and practiced by example, then let him preach all over the world, para-upakāra. Because they do not know. Actually that is happening. By one man's endeavor all these foreigners they're getting real life of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have sacrificed everything practically. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is required. That is human life. Otherwise, if we simply work very hard just like the stool-eater hogs, "Where is food? Where is food? Where is sex? Where is..." This is... Therefore this particular name has been mentioned here, viḍ-bhujām. It is very peculiar. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This is the business of the stool-eater hogs. Śāstra sometimes uses very strong language. That is required. Just like if you want to train your children, sometimes you have to slap, you have to chastise for his benefit. That is the... Therefore this very word is used, viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. These kind of engagements are there among the hogs and dogs. Are you hogs and dogs or human being? Your engagement is brahma-jijñāsā, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Inquire about Brahman. Learn about Brahman. Learn about yourself, that you are not this material body. If you are still thinking that you are this material body*-you are Indian, you are American, you are brāhmaṇa, you are śūdra, you are white, you are black-then you are in the dog's consciousness, not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is to be learned.



*So long we are in the bodily concept, that is going on all over the world. If we say people may not be happy... Now India, in your city it is going on, Andhra conference. How long you shall remain Andhra? You may remain Andhra for say twenty years or fifty years, utmost hundred years, then what you are doing? Andhra or something else? Where is the account for that? Because Kṛṣṇa says, the Supreme authority, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. So if you perpetually remain as Andhra, that is very good. "But that is not allowed, sir." You'll be kicked out of your, this Andhra concept of life by nature's law. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34], Kṛṣṇa says, "When death will come, 'Oh, my dear death, you cannot touch me. I am Andhra, I am Indian, I am American.' " No. "No, sir. Get out!" So where is that knowledge? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. This kind of civilization is the civilization of the cows and asses, go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. So we must understand what we are. Kṛṣṇa... Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught this. He said, "I am not brāhmaṇa. I am not kṣatriya. I am not vaiśya. I am not śūdra. I am not brahmacārī. I am not sannyāsī." "Not, not," neti, neti. "Then what you are?" Gopī-bhartuḥ pāda-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. This is self-realization. When we shall deny all this designation and we shall realize that I'm part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that is self-realization. And so long we identify with this body and mind and do not know what I am, that is go-kharaḥ civilization, cows and asses civilization.

*So especially in India we should be very careful not to follow the go*-kharaḥ civilization. We must follow real civilization, Brahman civilization. This is the land of brahma-jñāna. This is the land of brāhmaṇas, brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. We are losing that. Be careful. It is that we offer our respect to the Supreme Personality of Godhead that

*namo brahmanya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-hitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



*God's first business is go*-brāhmaṇa hitāya ca, brahmanya devāya. Kṛṣṇa is very, very eager to maintain the brahminical culture in the human society, brahma jānāti, understanding of Brahman and go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, go, cows, cow protection. Where is that civilization? Where is that brahminical culture? Where is that go-rakṣa? Very precarious condition. Therefore we should accept the standard of civilization. This is recommended here, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram ahur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want to become disentangled or free from this entanglement, conditioned soul one after another... We are forced. Our (indistinct) was saying about the change of body. The change of body is forced. You are young man. You cannot say, "I'll not accept old man's body." "No, sir. You'll have to accept." Forced. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. You cannot say "I will not accept this." Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. As you are forced to accept this body, old-age body-nobody wants to become old-similarly another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. These things are there. We are being forced by the laws of nature. Where is our independence? They're declaring resolution: "Now we are independent. Ah. Finished." Where is your independence? You are kicked out by the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You are not free. You are under supreme control. Nature, they will accept nature's control but not God's control. But the foolish person does not know that nature is also controlled by God. This you will have to learn from Vedic literature.



*Nature is described in the Brahma*-saṁhitā: sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Goddess Durga is accepted as the material energy or material prakṛti. So she's so powerful. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchanurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā [Bs. 5.44]. Sā Durga is not independent. Icchānurūpam api yasya, under who's direction she is working? Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. I am worshiping the Govinda, the ādi-puruṣa, the Supreme Person, ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. These are the information we get from the śāstra. Adyam, He is the original person. Ādyaṁ purāṇa puruṣam, the oldest person. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca, and at the same time always fresh youth. So how we shall learn all these things? Mahat-sevā. Go to mahat, mahānta, the guru. Serve him. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. You cannot challenge like a nonsense. You have to engage yourself to the service. That is the beginning. Brahmacārī is indicated, "Go to gurukula." And you may be a king's son or a very learned brāhmaṇa's son, it doesn't matter. You serve your guru just like a menial servant. This is the instruction. This is the first education. Go to gurukula and serve the mahat guru, the broad-minded guru, just like a menial servant. What is that? You go collect everything for guru, alms, and do not claim proprietorship. It is guru's property. Whatever you collect, that is not your property. That is guru's property. And go to gurukula, and when guru will ask you, "My dear boy, please come and take your prasādam," then you'll take. If guru forgets to call you, you should fast. This is gurukula. Not that "I am hungry. There is foodstuff. Let me eat." No. Without permission of guru you cannot touch anything. This is the injunction.

*Now how... Strenuous training was there to live in gurukula and sacrifice the whole life for guru's instruction. This is the Vedic culture, brahmacārī, and live at the place of guru just like a menial servant. Where is that education? Why you'll not expect these upstarts, Naxalites? Where is that training? Of course it is very difficult to bring back that mode of civilization at the present moment, kalau naṣṭa*-dṛśām, we have lost everything by the influence of this Kali-yuga. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised that you harer nāma, harer nāma, harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21], chant the name of Hari. Harer nāma, thrice He's stressing. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ kalau, in this age of Kali, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. This is simple method. Chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, harer nāma. Not other's name, harer nāma. There people also diverting their attention, "Any name will do." No. Not any name. Harer nāma. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. You have to hear and chant about Kṛṣṇa, not any other demigod. No. It is particularly mentioned, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. This is wanted. Very simple thing. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu has... It is from the śāstra, Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa, Agni-Purāṇa. A saintly person, mahānta, will not speak anything which is not mentioned in the śāstra. If somebody manufactures, he's a devil. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhāgavata, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. Anyone who goes against the śāstra and manufactures his own concoction, for him there is no siddhi, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti. Na sukham, neither any happiness. And what to speak of parāṁ gatim?

*So we should give up all these things. The all, the essence of all śāstra is Bhagavad*-gītā. All the (indistinct) Upaniṣad. All the Upaniṣad, Vedic śāstra is spoken in a very short, cream Bhagavad-gītā, and the Supreme Personality speaking Himself. So we should take it very seriously. Unfortunately, although Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in India, and there are many so-called students of Bhagavad-gītā, but they're interpreting in their own way, misleading people. Don't be misled in that way. Take Bhagavad-gītā as it is; *then it will automatically act. The medicine, as directed by the physician, you should take. You should not manufacture your own way of doses. Suppose physician says that "You take five drops of this medicine, mix with water and take it." You have to follow. If you say, "No, let me be cured immediately. Let me take hundred drops" or "one drop." No. That will not help you. Similarly, you should read Bhagavad*-gītā as it is prescribed by the physician, Kṛṣṇa. Then you will benefit. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says personally that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. This yoga system is avyaya, eternal. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, and Kṛṣṇa's words are eternal, and you are also eternal. This is our position. Kṛṣṇa is eternal and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], Kṛṣṇa says. Na jāyate na mriyate va kadācit, you are never born, never die. Kṛṣṇa also nityo nityānām. We are all nityas, eternal, but He's the supreme nitya, nityo nityānām. We are plural nitya; He is singular nitya. So what is the difference between this plural and singular? The singular maintains all these plural, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is the maintainer and we are maintained.

*So everything is mentioned in the Bhagavad*-gītā, and that is the essence of all Vedic literature. Our propaganda is that you read Bhagavad-gītā, try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any foolish commentary. As soon as you comment, that is foolishness. Don't do it. Read as it is. Then you'll get the enlightenment and you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is teaching to make you understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Why should we deviate? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Learn Bhagavad-gītā, the same instruction, mahat-sevā." Sevā. Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34], unless you are prepared to render service to your spiritual master... First of all you must find out the proper spiritual master. Then you must engage yourself to his service. Then you can question. Otherwise don't waste your time and your spiritual master's time. Tad viddhi, you must know. The first thing is praṇipātena, praṇipātena, prakṛṣṭa rūpeṇa nipāt, fully surrendered. Just like these boys, they have learned. They will see their spiritual master hundred time, and hundred time they'll fall flat and offer respect. This is called praṇipā. Hundred times. Not that I finished my praṇipā in the morning as an etiquette now. No. These boys are so good. They have learned that they'll meet me hundred times and they'll fall flat hundred times. This is called praṇipā. This is the injunction. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34], that is the Vedic injunction.

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]



This... The meaning of the Vedic literature is revealed. It is not by your mundane scholarship you can understand. That is not possible. Tasya ete kathitā arthāḥ prakāśante, it becomes revealed. To whom? Yasya deve parā bhaktir. One who has unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yathā deve tathā gurau, similar faith in guru. For them the meaning of this Vedic literature becomes revealed. It is not by mundane scholarship: "I think it is like that." Who are you? You are thinking like that? No. That is not the process. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā, two things must be there. First of all praṇipāta, and the other side, sevā, and the middle, paripraśna.



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



Who is jñānī? Who has seen the Truth. Not that supposing. "I supposedly like this." No. Whether you have seen. That is required.



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



Arjuna also made like that. In the beginning Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa on equal level like friends, but later on he said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Prapannam, this praṇipā, "I am surrendering to You."



*So find out guru. Who is guru? Guru means who's coming from the paramparā system. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Rajarṣaya, big, big, learned saintly kings. That means government. Now we are taking, accepting king by democracy, anyone by votes. No. Rājarṣaya. One must be governor, he must be as good as a ṛṣi, saintly person. Rājarṣaya. They must understand the purport of Bhagavad*-gītā, the aim of life. Then they will educate, the governor will educate the citizens how to make life successful. But if he does not understand what is the success of life, how he will govern? But it is going on. But Bhagavad-gītā says, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. The Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the rājarṣis, saintly kings, saintly governor. Because he has to govern, he must know how to govern: what is the aim of life, how they can be elevated. Just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, because he was a good governor, good king, so during his time, it is said that kāmaṁ parjanya vavarṣa. There is word I am just forgetting, that all the necessities of life were supplied through rain. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dugha-mahī: [SB 1.10.4] that we derive all necessities of life through the earth. Sarva-kāma-dugha-mahī. So if the king is pious, then the earth will give you production enough for your satisfaction. Now I've seen in your country so much land is lying vacant. Why it is not being produced? Because you do not know how to derive all benefits from earth. That you do not know. Therefore people are in scarcity. There is no question of scarcity. Kṛṣṇa has given everything. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam.. [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. There cannot be anything imperfect which is created by God. Everything is perfect. But if we become godless, the supply will be crippled. That is the secret we do not know. These things we have to learn from śāstra. As soon as people will become demonic, nature will restrict supply. "Now you become demonic. That's all right."

*So this is going on. Therefore it is recommended mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes, if you want to become free from all anxieties. First of all this material world means anxiety. We are put... We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Why we are sent to this material world? Icchā-dveṣa sammutthena, sarge yānti parantapa, because we wanted to enjoy life independent of God, or Kṛṣṇa. This is the disease. We are not independent. If there is no rain and there is no food grain, what your independence will do? No. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14], very practical. That if you want to be happy, either animal or man, bhūtāni, then you produce anna, food grains sumptuously. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. And there must be sufficient rain for producing sufficient food grains. Yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ, and you perform yajña, there will be regular rainfall. Yajñaḥ-karma samudbhavam. Who is following this principle? Yajñaḥ-karma samudbhavam. Kṛṣṇa never says that factories, by factories bhavanti bhūtāni. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, He says this is practical. We are not interested how to produce anna. We are now interested how to produce tire tubes. So eat tire tube.

So this is going on. Take Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. You'll be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a bogus thing, it is very scientific, authorized. Take it very seriously, especially those who are born Indians. They've got the advantage. Don't be misled. Thank you very much. So any questions?

Acyutānanda: If there are any questions, kindly print them on a piece of paper very clearly... (indistinct) (pause) Is there any result to chanting Kṛṣṇa's name mechanically? Or must it be uttered with complete devotion? If it is the latter, how (indistinct) Ajāmila, and how did he get mokṣa?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name is exactly, immediately associating with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. Kṛṣṇa... Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Nāmādi means name, then form, then quality, then entourage, so many things. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. So they're all absolute. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is not different. Identical. So when we chant Kṛṣṇa's name it means that we are directly associating with Kṛṣṇa. This is a fact. So as you, if you become nearer to, or touch fire, then you will get the resultant action. So if you chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that means immediately you are in touch with Kṛṣṇa. And the result will begin immediately. That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you will cleanse your dirty heart, because that is the beginning of our suffering. Misunderstanding. So there are other references in the śāstra. Just like:



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇa

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*Kṛṣṇa is sitting within your heart, īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa is with you, but you do not know. But as soon as you try to chant and hear, hear Kṛṣṇa's name, then immediately the cleansing of your heart begins, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Then bhava mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam, as soon as your heart is cleansed... Heart is cleansed means you understand that you are not this material body. That is cleansing of heart. Everything is going on on this misunderstanding that "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that." This is the grossest type of misunderstanding. So that becomes clear. Then you stand on your own position, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. There are so many things we'll gradually follow. Therefore if we chant Kṛṣṇa's name without any offense... There are ten kinds of offenses-but in the beginning, even there is offense, you go on chanting and gradually, as your heart will be cleansed... That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*(sarvātmā*-snapanaṁ) paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



So if you follow the instruction and if we chant, even though we do not understand in the beginning what is the effect of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, but it will show its effect if you go on chanting. Just like I began this movement in America. I did not ask them anything; I simply invited them, "Please come and chant with me." And just see the result. It is practical. I never bribed them, nor I showed any magic. I simply asked them, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And see the result. It is practical.



Guest (1): Why is Oṁ not figured in your play(?) ? All should come to the banner of Oṁ instead of praying to so many gods. By doing so there would be unity throughout the land.



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says praṇavaḥ sarva*-vedeṣu, "I am the oṁkāra in all Vedic mantras." Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti. Oṁkāra is as good. That is also Kṛṣṇa. So either you chant oṁkāra or "Kṛṣṇa," there is no difference. But in the śāstras it is recommended that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, not oṁkāra. So you have to accept śāstra. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu practically demonstrated. He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam, kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati, Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to follow the śāstra and the great saintly person. Otherwise there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. But because śāstra recommends harer nāma harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21], we have to accept it.



Mahāṁsa: There is a question here: please give brief resume of Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta's life. I would just like to make a note that we have printed our recent Hare Kṛṣṇa Explosion fortnightly. It is available at the book stall (indistinct). This issue had been dedicated to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Śrīla Prabhupāda, how he started the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and other achievements, books of Śrīla Prabhupāda. So if you would like to know, you can take one of these issues.



Acyutānanda: According to your observation, godlessness is responsible for scarcity. Then what about Communist countries compared with India?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Viṣṇujana: If godlessness is the cause of scarcity, why the Communist countries are so affluent?



Prabhupāda: They are asking food from America. (laughter)



Guest (2): Why is Kṛṣṇa consciousness not spread in China, Russia, Pakistan and Bangladesh? (laughter)



Prabhupāda: You come forward. I shall train you.



Acyutānanda: Does Śrīla Prabhupāda agree with the work of Ramakrishna Mission, Maharishi, meditation, and Divine Light Mission now working in America?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Pañcadraviḍa: Do you agree with the work of the Ramakrishna Mission, Mahesh Yogi, and Divine Light Society that are working in America?



*Prabhupāda: I do not study them. I simply study Bhagavad*-gītā, that's all. And Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I believe that. That's all.



Acyutānanda: What is meant by absolute surrender? How are we to satisfy ourselves having done so?



*Prabhupāda: Absolute surrender means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. I am surrendering to Kṛṣṇa to get this benefit-that is conditional surrender. I surrender to Kṛṣṇa without any motive*-that is absolute.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*No motive. That is required. If I think that I shall get some benefit*-that is business. That is not bhakti. That is taught by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*āśliṣya vā pāda*-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ

*marma*-hatāṁ karoty vā adarśanān

yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo

*mat*-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ

[Cc. Antya 20.47]



"You can treat me like anything. You can make me brokenhearted by Your absence. Still You are my Lord." That is unconditional surrender.



Acyutānanda: When I visited the Hare Kṛṣṇa center I thought that God had no form. In such case why should we garnish the idol of Kṛṣṇa with jewelry and adore the idol?



Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?



Pañcadraviḍa: Why should we adore the idol if God has no form?



*Prabhupāda: Who says God has no form? God is the supreme father. You know your father has form. What the supreme father has done that He'll not have form? Your father has got form. You're born of him. Then why the supreme father will not have form? What fault He has done? What is this logic? God is supposed to..., the supreme father. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. That is the Vedic information. The Supreme is that which is the source of everything. So we have got varieties of forms, and why the source should be formless? Why? What is the logic? We have got so many forms-8,400,000-and Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "Of all these forms of life, I am the seed-giving father." The seed-giving father, Kṛṣṇa, has form, and His sons have got form. Why the father should be formless? What is this logic? Eh? What is this logic-can anyone say?*-that because He's father, therefore He should be formless. What is this logic? The father must have form. Otherwise how many form... All these forms, wherefrom it is coming? Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja pradaḥ pitā. He is the father. If the sons have form, why the father will not have form? What is this logic? This is not logical conclusion. The real idea is... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "My dear Arjuna, you, Me, and all these kings and soldiers who have assembled here, they were in the past like this," that means they have forms, "and they're existing like this. And they'll continue to exist." Where is formless? You see the (indistinct) Bhagavad-gītā. He says in the past all of them existed like this, and we're existing now like this, past present, and in the future they'll continue. So where is formlessness? There is no question of formlessness. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). When there is such question, formlessness means that is not material form. But there is form. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], vigraha means form. But that is sat-cid-ānanda, eternal, full of bliss, and full of knowledge. This is not this form. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto: [Bg. 9.11] "These rascals, they do not know what I am. Therefore he's thinking that My form and his form is the same." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā, unless one is mūḍha, he cannot say that God is formless. God has form. But His form is different from our form, this material form. Sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha. So therefore, we have to learn all these things by mahat-sevā dvāraṁ vimukteḥ. We can get out of all this ignorance when we are engaged in mahat-sevā. Otherwise we shall remain in the darkness. Kṛṣṇa has form, but His form is different from our, this material form. That is (indistinct).



Acyutānanda: Is showing miracles to the people by some swamis the way to bring them back to spiritual life or not?



Viṣṇujana: Is showing miracles like some swamis do the way to bring people back to spiritual life?



Prabhupāda: Why should I show miracles? What is the business? I have to speak the truth. That's all. What is the use of miracle? When you go to college or school, we want to see miracles or you learn books and knowledge? Kṛṣṇa never said that you go to a guru who can perform miracles. He never said that. He said



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Go to a jñānī, and who has known the truth, not to a jugglers, magician. Science is not magic. Science is knowledge. That is the Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārtham: in order to understand that science, not to see jugglery and magic. The jugglery and magic is here present: all these meat*-eaters, drunkards, woman-hunters, now Vaiṣṇava. This is real magic. If you have got eyes to see, see the magic. If you are blind, then that is different question. This is magic.



Acyutānanda: Question: I believe in Kṛṣṇa but please clarify the following doubts. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so when Kṛṣṇa is the only God in the world, the creator of the whole universe, then why the existence of Jesus Christ and Allah? Why should not only one God for all? Why Christians and Muslims are not accepting Kṛṣṇa as God?



*Prabhupāda: They are accepting God, but they did not disclose the name of God because the people are unable to understand. "Kṛṣṇa" means "the all*-attractive." That is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa. So unless God is all-attractive, how He can be God? "Kṛṣṇa" means all-attractive.



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*When one understands Kṛṣṇa... To understand Kṛṣṇa it takes little time. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. So Kṛṣṇa revealed Himself in India before Arjuna, and what the others will understand about Kṛṣṇa unless he's advanced like Arjuna? So there are different persons, so different types of religion they have revealed. That is also Kṛṣṇa*-but, to some extent. The full extent they cannot understand. Just like Lord Jesus Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Just imagine what the audience were. They are killers. So what they'll understand about Kṛṣṇa? Let them first stop this killing. Then the stage will come he'll understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*One who is sinful, the first instruction should be, "You stop your sinful activities." Then the opportunity will come to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the... Yeṣāṁ tu anta*-gataṁ pāpam. One who is sinful, what he will understand about Kṛṣṇa? First of all, stop sinful activities. Then this stage will come, he'll understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Jesus Christ said, "You nonsense, stop killing." Then there will be time we'll understand one day Kṛṣṇa. So the first instruction is to stop sinful activities; then he'll be qualified.



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



So everything by step by step, not by jump. That is not possible.



*Acyutānanda: It is said, mānava*-sevā is mādhava-sevā, then why doesn't your mission serve man as in the incarnation of Lord Kṛṣṇa instead of chanting the name?



Viṣṇujana: Why don't we serve man instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: We are not going to follow your instruction. We have to follow the instruction of the śāstra. You cannot say that "Why you are..." Are we not serving the man? We are trying to give you the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not serving the man? The better service*-to give knowledge. If a man is hungry, he can give some food. That will give him some temporary benefit. But if you give him knowledge how to earn his livelihood, that is better gift. So people are suffering for want of knowledge. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving knowledge to the whole world. Not only that, we are giving prasādam also, hundreds and thousands of people. We are not that simply we are giving knowledge, but we are giving, we are inviting everyone, "Come, live with us peacefully, take Kṛṣṇa prasādam and be Kṛṣṇa conscious." This is our movement. That's all? One more.



Acyutānanda: What are the ways and means for controlling temptations and conquering desires?



Prabhupāda: Mm?



Devotee: What is the way for controlling our desires?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra eṣaḥ [SB 11.2.42], paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59], you have to give better engagement, then they will give up this inferior engagement. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate means if you get better engagement, then you can give up inferior engagement. You must have some engagement. Without engagements he will become mad. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give better engagement. So when he's engaged in better type of activities, he forgets all this inferior... That is explained bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra eṣaḥ [SB 11.2.42], as soon as one become devotee, he naturally becomes reluctant. Just like these American and European boys and girls, they are little advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have immediately given up all these inferior engagements of drinking and illicit sex and meat*-eating. They have given up. This is the way. You give them better engagement and they'll give up this inferior engagement. That is the pushing of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





750413SB.HYD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.2

-

Hyderabad, April 13, 1975





Prabhupāda:



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

[SB 5.5.2]



*For two days we have explained mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ. People have forgotten at the present moment what is the meaning of mukti. They do not know practically. Mukti means the..., to get out of the clutches of the stringent material laws. That is called mukti. We are at the present moment conditioned, so many conditions. So mukti means to live without condition. That is called mukti. The mukti definition is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: muktir sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ, muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. This is called mukti. We are not in the svarūpa. Svarūpa means spiritual form. That is called svarūpa. At the present moment, our material conditional body, that is not svarūpa. Last night I tried to explain, svarūpa means sac-cit-ānanda-rūpa. That is svarūpa, eternal, blissful life of knowledge. This is not svarūpa. This body is not eternal, neither it is blissful. It is full of miseries and without any knowledge. So this is not svarūpa. Svarūpa means eternal life, blissful life, and full of knowledge. That is called svarūpa.



*So we do not know that we are now living conditional life, virupa, which is not my svarūpa. This is the science that svarūpa can be perceived, can be realized. That is described in the Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā: brahma-bhūta. Brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20], spiritual realization, that is also not svarūpa. That is the beginning of self-realization.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*That is svarūpa. After Brahman realization, when one is perfectly free from all material anxieties, that is beginning of svarūpa. And then the conception of equality, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Those who are learned, they have no such distinction that "I am Indian," "You are American," "You are Bengali," "I am Andhra," and this... No. This is all virūpa, all virūpa. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. We have several times explained, we have to be free from all these designation. That is svarūpa, designationless.



*But we are now busy with designation and fighting. That means we are not yet completely educated. Kṛṣṇa also chastised Arjuna in the beginning, (sic:) asatyam anvaśocas tvam prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase, "You are talking like a very learned scholar, but you are lamenting only the body, bodily concept of life." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ [Bg. 2.11]. "So far the body is concerned, either it is dead or alive, a learned man does not care for it." That is svarūpa. Now we are simply concerned with this body; *therefore we are missing our svarūpa, therefore missing mukti. I have already explained, mukti means to be situated in his own original, spiritual life. That is called svarūpa. Svarūpanu bhuti (?). Svarūpa. There is, I think there is the word used in Bhagavad*-gītā that all the persons assembled in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, after death they attained svarūpa. Means liberated, all liberated and situated in spiritual life because they gave up their life in the presence of Kṛṣṇa. While dying they saw Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all of them after death attained svarūpa. So the mukti means sva-rūpena vyavasthitiḥ mukti hitva anyathā rūpam sva-rūpena vyavasthitiḥ. This is the meaning of mukti. So if we want that mukti, liberation, no more conditioned by the material nature, unconditional life, sa-guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. That is svarūpa.

*So virūpa means under the control of the three modes of material nature, sattva*-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Of course, in the material world the quality of brāhmaṇa, satya, śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42], this is the first-class quality within this material world. But that is also not svarūpa. That is also not svarūpa. One may become the topmost person within human society by acquiring brahminical qualification, but that is also not svarūpa. Real svarūpa is above that brahminical qualification. That is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava qualification means completely dedicated to the service of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Even if I consider myself that I am a learned brāhmaṇa, that is also misconception. That is also not svarūpa. When one understands that "I am not brāhmaṇa, not kṣatriya, not vaiśya, not śūdra, nor American, nor Indian, nor this, nor that; *simply I am spiritual part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and my only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa." Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam bhaktir uttamā [Cc. Madhya 19.167], that is first*-class life. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. Not pratikūlyena. Pratikūlyena means against the will of Kṛṣṇa. That is pratikūla. Bhakti means ānukūla. Just like Kamsa. He was also Kṛṣṇa conscious. He was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa: "Whether Kṛṣṇa is born? I have to kill Him. Whether this or that..." He was thinking of Kṛṣṇa. But pratikūlyena, not ānukūlyena. One Kṛṣṇa consciousness is always making plan how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and another Kṛṣṇa cons..., how to kill Kṛṣṇa.

So that to... Kṛṣṇa consciousness to kill Kṛṣṇa, that is not bhakti. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to serve Kṛṣṇa, how to spread Kṛṣṇa's glories all over the world, how to make the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is ānukūla. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇa..., cultivation of Kṛṣṇa knowledge, that is required. And when one is fully situated in that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean "Now I've got two hands; *I will have four hands," like that. No. Mukti means change of consciousness. At this time, the present moment, every one of us, we are thinking that "I am this body. This family is my kinsmen," yasyātma buddhiḥ kunape tri*-dhātuke svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. "This is my country. I have to worship it. I have to develop." All these consciousness is just the opposite number of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when we shall always think of Kṛṣṇa, satataṁ cintayanto mām: always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how to spread Kṛṣṇa's glories. How it is possible to adopt the means and ways and plans and always thinking. Just like Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu did and all the ācāryas, the Gosvāmīs. We have to follow mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186].

*That mahājana yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ is situat..., explained here, mahat*-sevā, mahat-sevā. Mahājana..., to follow the mahājana means to serve their mission.

*śrī*-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*We Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, we are known as rūpānuga. Rūpānuga means the followers of Rūpa Gosvāmī. So why we should become followers of Rūpa Gosvāmī? Because śrī*-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale. He wanted to establish the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Mano 'bhīṣṭam. Śrī Caitanya, mano 'bhīṣṭam, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same thing. This is called disciplic succession. Kṛṣṇa wanted that "Everyone be surrendered to Me." He personally therefore comes and He speaks Bhagavad-gītā aiming at Arjuna, who was perplexed in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and He explained karma, jñāna, yoga, so many things. But ultimately, He assured Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, you are very dear friend to Me; *therefore I am speaking to you the real purpose of life, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... [Bg. 18.66]. This is the real purpose of life." So Kṛṣṇa wanted that people should take shelter of His lotus feet, sarva-dharmān parityajya. But people misunderstood Him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came as a devotee, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Rūpa Gosvāmī could understand that. Therefore he offered his first prayer to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, namo mahā vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. "Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, You are the most munificent incarnation because You are not only giving the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, but You are giving the process how to love Him." Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te. So "You are Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇaya. I offer my humble obeisances to You, kṛṣṇaya, now appeared as kṛṣṇa-caitanya-namine, You have now appeared as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya."



*So Kṛṣṇa personally appeared as devotee to reestablish the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], and Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣa akṛṣṇa. This is a statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The real identification of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is in this age there was talk between Nimi Mahārāja and Navayogendra. So what is the duty of the people of Kali-yuga to worship the Supreme? In that connection, Karabhājana Muni, he said,

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*This is the method of worship. What is that? That Supreme Personality of Godhead who is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Kṛṣṇa varṇayati, kṛṣṇa varṇa tvīṣa akṛṣṇam. But His bodily complexion is not kṛṣṇa, not blackish, but yellowish, tvīṣa. Tvīṣa means by the complexion, akṛṣṇa, not Kṛṣṇa. And another symptom, sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam. He's associated with His most confidential devotees and expansions. Therefore we chant



*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



*This is sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam. This form of the Lord, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ, He's worshiped not by ritualistic ceremony, which is very expensive or performance of yajña. That is not possible in this age because there is no yajnic brāhmaṇa at the present moment.



*So this baivik*-yajña (?) is permitted in the..., prohibited in this Kali-yuga because they are not properly performed. It is not possible. Just like our Śrīman Pittieji was searching after a brāhmaṇa to recite the Rāmāyaṇa, Sundarakanda. He's not getting a proper brāhmaṇa. That is the difficulty. How you can perform yajña? There is no yajnic brāhmaṇa at the present moment. Therefore the yajña to be performed at this moment in this Kali-yuga is yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. Su-medhasaḥ means with good brain substance. Those who have no brain substance, they are called alpa-medhasaḥ. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad bhavati alpa-medhasaḥ. Alpa-medhasaḥ means there is no brain substance-filled up with cow dung. So one should be su-medhasaḥ. Su-medhasaḥ, nice brain substance. So those who are su-medhasaḥ means with good brain substance, they perform yajñair saṅkīrtanair by saṅkīrtana yajña, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see the effect of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This yajña being performed all over the world. How quickly they are capturing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just see the effect practically. Therefore those who are intelligent, having good brain substance, they should perform yajña saṅkīrtana, yajñaiḥ..., and worship Lord Caitanya.

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



*So these ideas can be had only if we follow the mahājana. Mahājana means that, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, he understood Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. About Rūpa Gosvāmī it is said... What is that? Vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Kīrtana... Uh?



Devotees: Kṛṣṇotkīrtana.



Prabhupāda:



*kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



This is the... The six Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana, they lived in Vṛndāvana by the order... The present Vṛndāvana, holy place, was made by Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī. These two brothers, they were ministers in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah. Practically they became Muhammadans; *their name were changed. Because in those days the brāhmaṇa community was very strict. Any brāhmaṇa accepting service, he'll be immediately excommunicated: "No, you are not brāhmaṇa." Brāhmaṇa's business is not to serve others. Brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam. They should remain... Everyone was independent. Brāhmaṇa independent, kṣatriya independent, vaiśya independent. Simply śūdra's dependent. So in those days, five hundred years ago, these two brothers were born of a very high class brāhmaṇa. They were learned scholar, but because they accepted the service of Nawab, they were excommunicated. So practically they become Muhammadans. Their names were changed: Dabira Khāsa, Sākara Mallika. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu made them gosvāmī. This is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They were rejected by the brāhmaṇa community, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu made them Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. The gosvāmī is not a caste title. Gosvāmī means who has control over the senses. Go means senses and svāmī means master. Those who are servant of the senses, they cannot become gosvāmī. That is not gosvāmī. Servant of senses, that is go-dāsa, not gosvāmī. So the Gosvāmī... Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau, the six Gosvāmīs, six Gosvāmīs, and if we follow their footprints, rūpānuga-varāya te, then he also becomes gosvāmī. This is the process.



*Therefore anywhere you go, it is required, mahat*-sevā. .vs

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*This is mahātmā, one who has fully surrendered to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa after mature experience and wisdom, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Many, many births we may go on philosophizing Brahman, neti, neti. But after many, many births, this is jñānavān. The jñānis, they are after Brahman realization. So Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. "After many, many births of this Brahman realization or Paramātmā realization, one may come to the platform of realizing the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Who is that Supreme Per...? Vāsudeva, the son of Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeva. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That is mahātmā. One who knows vāsudeva sarvam iti, that mahātmā is required. And if we can serve such mahātmā, then our path of liberation, mukti, will be open. That is stated here. mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. And the other way. One path to mukti, another path is bondage. Two things are there: bondage and mukti. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās te'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Baddhā means bound up. We are, in our material condition of life, we are bound up tight, hands and legs are bound up. We cannot do anything independently. It is not possible. That we must know. People are declaring independence. That is not possible. That is our foolishness. Baddhāḥ, uru-dāmni baddhāḥ, just like uru means this waste. If you are bound up by rope just like thieves are carried, handcuffed and bound up on the waist, what you can do? So we are uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Uru means very strong, and dāmni means rope, baddhāḥ. Just like the bulls are bound up in the nostril and the driver is moving like this, immediately he has to move this way, immediately. Although he's very strong bull, but uru-dāmni baddhāḥ.



*So therefore māyā's name is guṇamayī. Guṇa, guṇa means also rope, guṇa. Guṇamayī, tri*-guṇa-mayī, three ropes you bound together become very strong. Similarly, this māyā, the stringent laws of material nature, prakṛti, is very, very strong. You cannot declare independence. That is not possible. If you really want independence, then you mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. Then you have to take shelter of mahājana, mahat-sevā. That is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. First thing is that this... Mukti means you have to become surrendered either to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Otherwise there is no question of mukti. And if you do not do this, if you think that eat, drink, be merry and enjoy life, that is called yoṣi saṅga, yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. What is that? Tamo-dvāram. That means you are making progress towards darkness, tamo-dvāram, hellish condition of life.

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha māninaḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*These are the instructions Prahlāda Mahārāja gave. He wanted to teach his father, atheist father. So his father inquired, "Prahlāda, how you have developed this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" So Prahlāda began to smile and said to his father, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. He did not address his father "My dear father." He used to address him as "the best of the asuras," asura*-varya. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya. So he said, "My dear father," matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā, "to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is not so easy." Parataḥ svato vā, "Even if you hear instruction from others or if you speculate yourself, it is not possible." Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhi,"or making by assembly, conference." Why? Na gṛha-vratānām. "If you have this intention, that 'I shall live in this material world. I shall become happy in this material world,' then there is no question of becoming advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Why they are so much attached? Adānta-gobhiḥ, because they are not gosvāmīs. Adānta. Adānta means uncontrolled, go means senses. They have given freedom to the senses: "Whatever you like, you do." So the result is that if you let loose your horses-"Whatever you like, you can do"-then it will go and cause you to fall down in a ditch, adānta-gobhiḥ. Similarly, if we give freedom to the senses, adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram, we go to the darkest region of hellish condition of life. And what is that? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], again and again the same disease: birth, death, old age and disease. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], this life or that life, the birth, death, old age, disease will continue.



*So if you have got determination that "We shall continue this life of birth, death, old age and disease and let loose our senses, do whatever you like," then there is no question of liberation. There is no lib... Therefore it is said, tamo*-dvāram yoṣitaṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Yoṣitaṁ saṅgi-saṅgam, yoṣit means woman, generally. Woman is supposed to be the representative of māyā. So either you directly keep relation or you keep relation with persons who are very much fond of yoṣit, in both ways you have to go directly to the darkest region of hellish conditions. Tamo-dvāram. Therefore our Vedic civilization is... The first teaching is brahmacārī. First teaching, how to become brahmacārī. There are many saintly persons, they are akhanda brahmacārī, or avala (?) brahmacārī. They avoid. It is not only for men; it is meant for woman also, because here we are dressed like men and women. Otherwise the mentality is manly, to enjoy, puruṣa. Puruṣa means who wants to enjoy, and yoṣit means enjoy. So our relationship in this material world, that either in the dress of woman or man, the mentality is puruṣa, how to enjoy. The mentality is puruṣa.

So when we give up this mentality, enjoyer... Because we are not actually enjoyer. Enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says,

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ (śāntim ṛcchati)

[Bg. 5.29]



*And in the Bhagava... Arjuna also addresses Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam [Bg. 10.12]. You are the only puruṣa, śāśvata. So we are simply thinking of becoming puruṣa, enjoyer. But we are not puruṣa. We are all prakṛti. It is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, the jīva-bhūta. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Prakṛti, another prakṛti is there. This material prakṛti, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], they are My bhinnā prakṛti, bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. But besides that, there is another prakṛti. Prakṛti means, who is that prakṛti? Jīva-bhūta, the living entities. The living entity's prakṛti. He is not puruṣa. Constitutionally, prakṛti means the things which are enjoyed. That is called prakṛti. And the enjoyer is called puruṣa. So nobody of us, either men or women. We are not puruṣa. We are all prakṛti constitutionally. That is called hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. When you live as prakṛti, not as puruṣa, that is called mukti. This is the definition of mukti. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2], every one of us, we are thinking as puruṣa, enjoyer. That is the fight between, going on. Just like in Western countries, the prakṛti, the woman, they're also fighting, "We have equal rights with the man." So this is going on.



*So this is all conditional life, the so*-called puruṣa life, or so-called prakṛti life. Unless we have got real enlightenment, what is our real, constitutional position? That we can learn only by the association of mahat, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. That is the Vedic process, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. We must take shelter. Kṛṣṇa also says that

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Everywhere, in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also the same thing is explained, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. If you are inquisitive to understand transcendental truth, the Absolute Truth, the guru is... To have a guru is not a fashion. Now it has become a fashion. If somebody shows some jugglery, people become very much anxious to accept such guru. No. Guru means, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Who requires a guru? Jijñāsu śreya uttamam, one who is very much anxious to know about the ultimate benefit of life. For him guru is required. Not a fashion. Just like we keep a dog as a fashion. Nowadays it is a fashion to keep a dog. So don't keep a guru like a dog. And who will hear you? "Come on. Come on." Yes. Not like that. Guru require then where you can surrender. Not like a dog, but master, where you can surrender. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta, prapadyeta means you must surrender.



*And why you should surrender? Jijñāsu. If you are actually inquisitive, inquirer, what about? Śreya uttamam. Śreya means the ultimate benefit of life. And preya means immediate benefit of life. There are two things: śreya and preya. The human life is meant for sreya. And animal life is meant for preya, immediate benefit. That is called preya. And śreya means ultimate benefit of life. That one who is inquisitive to understand about the ultimate goal of life, for him there is need of guru, not a fashion. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Then what is that guru? That is also explained: śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Śābde means Vedic literature. Vedic He has drowned himself, he has bathed himself in the ocean of Vedas. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. Just like if you take bathing in a river, deep down you'll become refreshed. Similarly, one has to take śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. And what is the symptom? How I shall know that he has taken bathing fully in the ocean of Veda? Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam, he has finished all desires for material happiness or distress. He is brāhmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of Brahman*-the same thing, Parabrahman, Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], one who has taken fully shelter under the lotus feet of Parabrahman, Kṛṣṇa, you have to take shelter of such a guru. Otherwise you'll not be able to get out of these clutches of māyā. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21], every śāstra you go.

*So therefore here it is said that if you are actually anxious to become free from this material condition of life, then you must accept the service of mahat*-sevā. Mahat means one who has fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He's mahat. Vāsudeva sarvam iti. One who has taken this conclusion, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. These are the formulas. So mahātmā means the fully surrendered soul unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. He is the first-class mahātmā. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, not ordinary mahātmā, but su-durlabhaḥ. And what are the signs? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim, bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. He has no other business except worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Mām ekam. In this way if we find the opportunity, then there is possibility of mukti. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. And if we associate with the yoṣi saṅgi, those who are desirous of enjoying this material world under different pleas, you, if you associate with them, then you glide down to the darkest region of hellish condition of life.

*In the next verses it is said, mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ. Then what is the symptoms of mahātmā? He says, Ṛṣabhādeva says, sama-cittāḥ. Equilibrium, not disturbed by material conditions. Sama-cittāḥ, sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu. The same thing. Sama-cittāḥ praśāntā. Peaceful. Praśāntā. Pra means prakṛsta rūpena, fully blissful. And when one can become fully praśāntā, fully peaceful? When he has no more desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], no more desire. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Everything is described. So praśāntātmā. It is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, so long you will want something there is no question of praśāntā. So therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta says bhukti mukti siddhi kāmi-sakali aśānta. Bhukti means karmis. Karmis means those who are working very hard to get some material benefit. They are called karmīs, either in this world or the next world or heavenly planet, there are different types of karmīs. So the bhukti... Bhukti means bhoga, sense enjoyment. They are called karmīs. So bhukti or mukti. Mukti means liberation to get out of this material contamination. That is called mukti, sva-rūpena vyavasthitiḥ. But just like the jñānīs, they want mukti, sāyujya mukti, to become one with the Supreme. So mukti, bhukti, mukti and siddhi. Siddhi means yogic perfection. Aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, eight kinds of yoga-siddhi. So the yogis, the jñānīs, and the karmis, they want something. They want something. Therefore they are not praśāntā. As soon as, so long you'll want, you... There cannot be peacefulness. There is no question of peacefulness. Caitanya-caritam... Bhukti mukti siddhi kāmi-sakali aśānta, they are not praśāntā. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta' [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Kṛṣṇa bhakta, he does not want anything. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching that.

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



This is called śānti, "I don't want it." Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. This is bhukti. Karmīs, they want. They want many followers, many voters, so that "I can become minister or president."



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, I don't want many voters." Na janaṁ, na sundarīm kavitām, "Neither very beautiful wife." These are material demands, to get money or wealth, sumptuously, to get good a wife and many followers, many workers. Caitanya Mahāprabhu denies, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. Then what do you want? Mama janmani janmanīśvare [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4], He doesn't want mukti even. Otherwise how He says janmani, janmani? Mukti means no more janma. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says mama janmani janmani. It doesn't matter. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād ahaitukī bhakti. That's all. Therefore if you want to become praśāntā, fully satisfied... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest and underwent severe tapasya to see the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But when he actually saw Him, he said, svamin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I don't want any benediction." This is praśāntā, no one disturbing Kṛṣṇa for any personal, material benefits. That is called praśāntā. That is stated here, mahānta. This is mahānta, sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā vimanyavaḥ. Vimanyavaḥ, because a devotee has to suffer so many tribulations. That is the history of all devotees. But he's never angry. He's never angry. Then he falls down. Vimanyavaḥ. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was being crucified; He still, He was praying, "God, these people they do not know what they are doing." Vimanyavaḥ, never angry. If he becomes angry, then who He'll preach? He's criticized for...

*There is a description of sādhavaḥ in Kapiladeva's instruction that titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ [SB 3.25.21]. Sādhu means very tolerant. That is taught by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. So the first qualification of sādhu is titikṣavaḥ. And at the same time kāruṇikāḥ. There are many instances, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He tolerated so many tortures even by his father, titikṣavaḥ. And at the same time he was thinking, "How to deliver these persons who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious?" That is kāruṇikāḥ. He is personally being tortured, but at the same time he was thinking how to do good to others. This is sādhu. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ. Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29], he's friend, not only to the human society, but he's friend to the ant even. A devotee does not like that even an ant should be killed. No. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ, titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva, ajāta-śatravaḥ, he does not create any enemy, but unfortunately the demons becomes his enemy. What can be done? Suhṛdam sarva-bhūtānām, ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ. Again this same word, praśāntā, fully satisfied. He has nothing to hanker after because he has got Kṛṣṇa. Why he should hanker? Śāntā, praśāntā.

titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ

*suhṛdaḥ sarva*-bhūtānām

ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ

*sādhavaḥ sādhu*-bhūṣaṇaḥ

[SB 3.25.21]



*This is the sādhu. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā: api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30], he is sādhu. No more sādhu, this is sādhu. Therefore, here it is same thing, vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye. So we have to approach sādhu. We have to approach devotee. We have to approach praśāntā. And if we become fortunate to serve him, then the liberation, the path of liberation is open.



Thank you very much. Any question? Who is the in charge of microphone? Go on. What happen?

*Acyutānanda: (reading question) In the Vedas the mahā*-mantra is repeated Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare/ Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. What is the significance of changing the order?



Prabhupāda: There is no change of order. If you like you can begin with Hare Rāma. There is no harm.



Acyutānanda: (to audience) We request everyone to please print very clearly and make your questions brief to save time. (reading question) Many people say that Lord Kṛṣṇa is the King of romance. (indistinct) true?



Prabhupāda: King of...?



Devotees: Romance.



Prabhupāda: Romance?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Romantic. King of lovers.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa means the supreme lover and beloved. He attracts everyone. There is one Greek word, krista. The meaning is the same, "love." And from this krista the word Christ has come. So this word Christ also has connection with Kṛṣṇa.



Acyutānanda: How to see Lord Kṛṣṇa? Can anybody see Him by chanting the holy name Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra? Is it possible for a human being in his short period of life?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If he develops love for Kṛṣṇa. That I have explained the other day, premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. If you develop love for Kṛṣṇa, premā, premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu that dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90] is not the aim of life. Premā pum-artho mahān. After liberation...



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu (bhūteṣu)

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*When one is engaged in devotional service, loving devotional service, then he can increase his love for Kṛṣṇa. The love for Kṛṣṇa is there. In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it is said, kṛṣṇa...



*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya

[Cc. madhya 22.107]



*The love for Kṛṣṇa is there, everywhere. Just like the European, American boys. Why they are loving Kṛṣṇa? It is not foreign. It was there. It was there. Similarly, in everyone's heart there is love for Kṛṣṇa. By cultivation, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that love becomes developed. And when you develop that love for Kṛṣṇa, then you will see Kṛṣṇa twenty*-four hours. That is wanted. So ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu saṅga tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā tato bhakti... Tato niṣṭhā tathāśaktis tato bhava sādhakānām ayām premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. This is the ādau śraddhā. Just like you have come here in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement meeting because you have got little śraddhā, faith. This is called śraddhā. You have to increase this śraddhā. How? Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83], those who are Kṛṣṇa's devotees, you have to associate with them. You cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness by associating with drunkards and others. No. That is not possible. You have to associate with kṛṣṇa bhakta. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu saṅga [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15], sādhu means bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. I've already described the sādhu. If you want love of Kṛṣṇa, then you have associate with sādhu. Sādhu means kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo, tato bhajana-kriyā [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Association with sādhu means you'll learn, bhajana-kriyā. Just like many people come in our society, not in the beginning as devotee, as a matter of inquisitiveness. Then gradually he wants to become initiated. He approaches, "Kindly initiate me. Make me a disciple." Bhajana kriyā. This is called bhajana-kriyā. And if you actually perform bhajana-kriyā, then anartha nivṛttiḥ syāt. All these unwanted things which you have learned, you have become habituated, mainly illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling, that becomes finished. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. No more attachment for these things. Then niṣṭhā, firm conviction. Then ruci, taste. Then āsaktiḥ, attachment. Then bhāva, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so nice." Then prema. That requires... If you have developed your love for Kṛṣṇa, then you will see Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours.



*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*This is the process. So if by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa you practice this process, then you'll see Kṛṣṇa always. There is no... Kṛṣṇa is not concealed. He is prepared to be revealed. He comes Himself, "See Me. See My feature. Here I am. Here is my līlā, Vṛndāvana līlā." But you don't see, don't like to see. That is our defect. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is always ready to be revealed. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu [Bs. 5.38], sadaiva, twenty-four hours you'll see. So Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32], it doesn't matter you are born in a low-grade family. It doesn't matter. Still, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, you'll get the highest result of life by seeing Kṛṣṇa. So kṛṣṇa-bhakti is ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked by any material condition if you are serious about it. Then Kṛṣṇa will help you. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam [Bg. 10.10], "I'll give you intelligence how to see Me." These things are there. So if you are serious to see Kṛṣṇa then Kṛṣṇa is ready to be seen by you. It is not very difficult task.



Acyutānanda: Is there any difference between Śiva and Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no difference and difference also. Just like milk and yogurt, dahi. Dahi is nothing but milk, but still it is not milk. That is the example. That... What is dahi? Dahi is transformation of milk. But you cannot say it is milk. Will you accept dahi instead of milk? Or will it act the same way? No. So everything is like that. Acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva. Kṛṣṇa has explained this fact. What is that?



mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



"Everything is resting in Me." But if you'll see, if you say, "Then everything is Yourself..." No. Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ, Kṛṣṇa is everything; *at the same time everything is not Kṛṣṇa. This is called acintya*-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. So Lord Śiva is also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4], that form is Lord Śiva. So but, he said that dadhi vikāra. Dadhi. Dadhi means yogurt. Milk is transformed into yogurt, dahi. And when it is dahi, it is no more milk. This is the idea. If you require milk for some purpose and if I give you dahi, "That is same thing, sir. Why don't you take?" "No. It will be different effect."



Acyutānanda: Please clarify whether Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa or is He Himself avatāra?



*Prabhupāda: If you plug your ears then how can I explain? So many times we have said that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-nāmine gaura-tviṣe namaḥ. He has appeared in the name of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, but He's Kṛṣṇa Himself. We have to follow this.



*Acyutānanda: How can the world survive when people forget their karma and immerse themselves in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Won't it lead to inaction and a stand*-still condition?



Prabhupāda: What is that? (laughter)



Pancadravida: If they stop their karma and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everything will stand still.



*Prabhupāda: Nothing stands still. We are not karmīs. At least, we are not doing anything. We go and become guests of Pittieji and he does everything. We do not benefit. So you try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything will be done automatically. You don't have to worry. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga*-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Of course, you cannot stop karma. That is not possible. Not that everyone will become Kṛṣṇa conscious and your field of activities will be stopped. No. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to stop the activities-some group of lazy people. No. We are the most active people, touring all over the world. Who can become a karmī like us? In this old age I am traveling all over the world. Can any karmī do that? So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then karma, jñāna, yoga, everything becomes perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like if you get one lakh of rupees, ten rupees is there. You haven't got to separately to acquire ten rupees. Similarly, karma, jñāna, yoga, they are ten rupees, twenty rupees, fifty rupees, like that. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is one lakh of rupees. As soon as you get Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll get everything. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66], you'll get everything there. It is confirmed.



*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta puruṣaṁ param

[SB 2.3.10]



*Akāma. Akāma means bhakta. Praśāntā. He doesn't want anything. They are called akāma. Sarvakāma means karmī. He wants everything. Bring these dānaṁ dehi, rūpaṁ dehi, yaso (?) dehi, dehi, dehi, dehi. That is karmī. Akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāma [SB 2.3.10], mokṣa-kāma means those who are desiring after liberation. So whatever you may be, never mind. There are three classes of men, akāma, sarva-kāma, mokṣa-kāma, so whatever you may be, Kṛṣṇa is competent. He says, therefore, that tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa. The only method that Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya... [Bg. 18.66]. If you, even if you want to be karmī, even you want the karmī's desire, that you want everything, to enjoy, that will also be fulfilled if you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa. You haven't got to work separately for fulfilling your desire of karma or jñāna or yoga. Everything will be there. Kṛṣṇa is so powerful. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. If you want from Kṛṣṇa the result of your karma, good result, Kṛṣṇa will give you. Kṛṣṇa is not unable to award you this. So better you simply worship Kṛṣṇa. You get all your desires fulfilled. And the ultimate result will be that you will no more desire, because so long you'll desire, you'll never get peace. But by worshiping Kṛṣṇa for some material motive, you'll get that, (but) at the end you will not ask anything more. You'll be śāntā, praśāntā. This is the result. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to worship Kṛṣṇa for achieving greater kingdom than his father. That was his motive. But when he actually got perfection, he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ, when you get Kṛṣṇa, then you'll understand that there is no more anything more obtainable than Kṛṣṇa, fully satisfied. That is wanted. That's all? So many? All right. Go on.



*Acyutānanda: Cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā ṣṛṣṭaṁ: [Bg. 4.13] is it applicable to India alone, or the whole world?



Prabhupāda: Whole world. Kṛṣṇa, whatever Kṛṣṇa speaks, it is for the whole world. Therefore we are creating brāhmaṇas in the Western countries. You'll have to import brāhmaṇa from there. (laughter) As you are importing milk powder. All cows finished. So brāhmaṇa is finished. So you have to import brāhmaṇa from Europe and America.



Acyutānanda: If Kṛṣṇa has created the universe, then who has created Kṛṣṇa? How did He acquire such immense powers?



*Prabhupāda: Hmm. This is foolishness. (laughter) That is explained of course. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. This word is used. Kṛṣṇa means janmādy asya yataḥ. Kṛṣṇa also explains ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. He is the origin of everything. But He's svarāṭ, there is no more origin of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. That is said in the śāstra: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, anādi [Bs. 5.1]. He has no ādi. Anādi, ādi. He is the ādi origin of everything, but He has no ādi. That is God. That is God. Anādir ādir govindaṁ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. He is the cause of all causes. Just like I have got my father, you have got my (your) father. Your father has got father, his father, his father, his father, go on. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father, but He has no father. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not require any father. But he accepts a father amongst His devotees because the devotee wants Kṛṣṇa also as child. To fulfill the desire of the devotee He accepts Nanda Mahārāja as father, Vasudeva as father, just to give them pleasure. Kṛṣṇa as child, Yaśodā-mayī is enjoying the pleasure. Kṛṣṇa is playing as child. But he has no father, neither mother. He accepts the beloved devotee as father and mother. This is Kṛṣṇa.



Guest: Is Śiva milk or dahi? Just now you said something about dahi and milk. Is Śiva milk or dahi?



Prabhupāda: Dahi.



Guest: That is what I wanted to know.



*Prabhupāda: Śiva is dahi and Kṛṣṇa is milk. Dahi, the preparation of dahi that you take milk, pure milk, and mix it with little sour thing, then it becomes dahi. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is pure spirit, and when this pure spirit is mixed up with māyā, that is Śiva. Lord Śiva is the māyā*-adipati. There are many narrations. This was once inquired by Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja that Lord Śiva, he appears to be like a beggar. He does not possess even a house. He lives underneath a tree. And the devotee of Śiva becomes very rich, opulent materially, although he's a beggar, whereas Viṣṇu is lakṣmī-pati, vaikuṇṭha-pati, and the Vaiṣṇavas become beggar. Just opposite. By worshiping the beggar one becomes rich, and by worshiping the rich one becomes beggar. What is this contradiction? So this is answered by Kṛṣṇa, yasyāham anugrhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ [SB 10.88.8], "My first benediction to my devotee is that I take away all his riches. That's all. Then when he becomes helpless, he becomes firmly convinced and he has no other shelter." Then automatically he takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa demands, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām [Bg. 18.66]. When he has no other help, he fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa's special mercy. And so far Lord Śiva is concerned, he is the husband of mother Durgā, and Durgā is the supreme material power, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. So he gets all material benediction, and Vaiṣṇava, instead of material benediction, he gets all spiritual benediction. That is the difference.



Acyutānanda: The last question. What is the real meaning of religion?



*Prabhupāda: Religion means to abide by the laws of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma is the core. Just like the state gives you law. So you cannot manufacture law at home. That is not possible. Nobody will accept that. When it is given by the state government, that is law. Similarly, what is given by God, that is religion, and that is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is religion. And other things cheating. That's all. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2], all cheating type of religious system is rejected. In the Bhāga... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins, dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo atra. Śrīdhara Swami says, "Kaitava means cheating." Mokṣa vāñchā api nirasta, even desiring for liberation, that is also cheating type of religion. Simply to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that is religion. Otherwise no religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. This is religion. That's all right? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





751022SB.JOH

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.2

-

Johannesburg, October 22, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi*-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



In continuation of the last verse I recited day before yesterday, the second verse is suggesting how one can be liberated from this material bondage. In the first verse it was suggested that this human form of life is not meant for wasting uselesly like the animals, dogs and hogs. It should be properly utilized. The suggestion was tapa, tapasya. Tapasya means austerity, voluntarily accepting some inconvenience. This is called tapasya. Tapa, one meaning is "disturbances." Suppose I am practiced to some habit. If I am advised to give it up, it becomes little troublesome. For example, if I am habituated to smoke and somebody or higher authority says, "Don't smoke," to give up smoking is little difficult, those who are habituated to smoke. Similarly... But according to the doctor's advice if somebody has to give up smoking, he has to. Otherwise his disease may not be cured.



*Similarly, our, this present position, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. We are constantly, repeatedly changing body, transmigration of the soul. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. That means we are accepting death. Death means change of the, final change of the body. When this body is no more useful to continue, then by nature another body is offered. At the time of death, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]*-we create a mental situation. We have got two kinds of bodies-subtle body and gross body. This gross body is made of five gross material elements: earth, water, fire, air, ether. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. When we sleep, the gross body does not work but the subtle body works. We dream therefore. So the... At the time of death this gross body is finished, but the subtle body-mind, intelligence and ego-will carry me to another gross body. It will enter into the womb of another mother, and she will create another similar body like the mother, and when it is complete, then it will come out.

*So the spirit soul is in this way bound up by the material gross body and subtle body. This is our disease. This is... Material existence means we are suffering from this disease. So in the first verse it was suggested by Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons, "My dear sons," tapo putrakā. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma*-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Our position is... As I explained the other day, we are part and parcel of God. So God's existence is sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ: [Bs. 5.1] eternal, blissful, knowledge. So we are part and parcel. Our knowledge, our blissfulness, our eternity may be very small, but we possess the same quality. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that spirit soul or God... God is the supreme spirit, and we are minute. He is vibhu, unlimited; *we are aṇu, very small*-molecular or atomic. So quality is the same. So our seeking after eternity, seeking after full knowledge and to remain blissful, that is our nature because we are part and parcel of God.

*But on account of being covered by these material elements-earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, and ego*-we are suffering this disease-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Janma means birth, and mṛtyu means death. As soon as we take birth, it means we must be prepared for death. I am increasing my age means decreasing my age, not increasing. When a child is born, if some friends asks, "When this child is born?" "Now, one week before," that means the child has already died one week. From his duration of life, make one week minus. So we are dying every moment. Mṛtyu, death, is sure. "As sure as death." So... But we are not meant for death, neither we are meant for birth. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā: "The spirit soul is never born, neither he dies." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The spirit soul, nitya, eternal, śāśvata, inexhaustible... Na hanyate, clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So this death is artificial. Therefore we do not like to die. We do not like to be unhappy. We do not like to be without any knowledge. This is our nature. But because this nature is hampered on material condition, therefore the business of the human being is to cure this disease-birth, death, old age and disease. This is the mission of life, not to waste time, not to waste our life, duration of life, just simply jumping like dog and hog. That is not human life. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1].

Therefore we have to undergo tapasya. We should not indulge whimsically to anything. That is not human life. Therefore human life, there is need of education; there is need of regularities; there is need of following the instruction of the authorities. That is in human life. Law is meant for the human life, not for the cats and dogs. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva suggested that "You practice austerity." Means... Austerity means... I have already explained. I do not like to do anything, but for curing my, this material disease, I have to do that. This is called austerity. The same example: I am habituated to smoke. I don't like. If somebody said, "Don't smoke," it is difficult for me. But I have to do it if I want to cure my disease. This is called austerity.

*So according to Vedic system we should be sinless. Unless we become sinless, there is no possibility of understanding God. That is not possible. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*"A person who has completely finished the reaction of his sinful life..." Yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. So if we be engaged in puṇya karma, pious activities, then there is no chance of acting impiously. So puṇya-karmaṇām. Yajña dāna tapaḥ kriyaḥ. These are the activities of piety: yajña, performing sacrifice. There are different types of sacrifices mentioned, but in this age it is difficult. Therefore in this age the easiest sacrifice is chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. This, performing this yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña, you have to simply agree. Otherwise you have no loss. Simply you have gain. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are not asking anybody that "Give us some fee, some dollars. Then you chant." No. It is free. You can chant-if you like. This is yajña. This is the yajña of this age. Anyone can join. It doesn't matter that this class of men will join. No, anyone-poor, rich, white, black, illiterate, learned-everyone. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana means bahubhir militvā. Many people assembled together, when glorifying the Lord, that is called saṅkīrtana.



*So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra means... We are preaching all over the world. There is no difficulty. Everyone is joining. Everyone is chanting. So it is not very difficult task. And you can... This is yajña. And then dāna. Dāna means charity. So whatever you earn, at least some percentage of your money should be given in charity. The best charity is to give for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, God consciousness. Kṛṣṇa said, dadāsi yat kuruṣva tad mad-arpanam: "If you want to give in charity something, please give Me." Kṛṣṇa says, God says. So yajña-dāna-tapaḥ, again tapa, austerity. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyaḥ pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. We should not give up this practice, performing yajña, giving in charity and practicing tapasya. This is essential for the human being. This should be practiced as far as possible. So this is called pious activities. So one should be engaged in pious activities. Then there will be no chance of committing sinful activities. In this way, when you are nature, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam, no more sinful life, pure life, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, always practicing pious activities. Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā [Bg. 7.28], such person without any doubt, without any duality, can be engaged in the service of the Lord, such person.

*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, tapo divyaṁ putrakā [SB 5.5.1], putrakā. "My dear boys, My dear sons, don't waste your time like dogs and hogs. Just practice tapasya." Tapo divyam. Divyam. Divyam means for divine purpose, not for manufacturing some weapon for killing thousands of men at a time. This requires also tapasya, very great attention, labor and perseverance. Everything required. That is called tapasya. But not that kind of tapasya, for the inauspicious position of the human society. No. Tapo divyam, for divine understanding. So the benefit will be yena śuddhyet sattvam. Then our existence, the position, (sic:) existential position, will be purified. And what will be the result if it is purified? Yena brahma*-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after eternal life, we are seeking after happiness and we are seeking after full knowledge. That will be attained. So tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam... [SB 5.5.1]. That is success of life.

*Now, in the next verse, how we can practice tapasya, that is recommended here. Mahat-sevām. Mahat sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. Mahat, great soul. Mahat means great soul. Who is great soul? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Great soul means who has taken shelter of the spiritual nature. He is great soul. There are two natures: spiritual nature and the material nature. We can understand material nature, this body, and the spiritual nature, the soul. And there are two things within our, this existence: matter and spirit. Similarly, there are two energies of God. One energy is called material energy, and the other is called spiritual energy. God is appreciated. We can understand God-there is God*-by the presence of His energy, just like we can understand there is sun in the presence of the sunlight. Light is the energy of the sun. In the morning, as soon as you see through your door, open window, that there is now light, you can understand there is sunrise. So we can understand the existence of God by the presence of His energy. By the presence of His energy. Just like sun is appreciated by the presence of heat and light, similarly, whatever we see in this world There are two energies working: material energy and the spiritual energy. We can understand there is God. Otherwise wherefrom this energy is coming? As soon as we get heat and light, we understand there is the sun. Similarly, tathedam akhilaṁ jagat.

*eka*-deśa-sthitāsyagner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktis

tathedam akhilaṁ jagat



*What is this world? This world is distribution of the two energies of God: the material energy and the spiritual energy. So mahat means one who has taken shalter of the spiritual energy. He is called mahat, great soul. So far the material energy is concerned, they, generally all living entities who are in this material world, they have taken the shelter of the material energy, 8,400,000 forms of body. But the mahat means one who has taken the shelter of the spiritual energy. So mahat sevan: we have to approach such person who has taken the shelter of the spiritual energy of God. Mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. If you want liberation from this bondage-birth, death, old age and disease and so many other things-then you have to execute tapasya under the direction of a great soul. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want liberation. And tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Yoṣitām. Yoṣitām means Yoṣit mean woman.



*So this material energy is... Every energy is woman. The spiritual energy is also woman, material energy is woman. The material energy is tamo, darkness, and the other energy is the light. Therefore Vedic injunction is tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Don't remain under the darkness material energy. In the Caṇḍī, those who have read Caṇḍī, ya devī sarva*-bhūtānāṁ nidrā-rūpena samāsthitaḥ. The material energy's business is to keep us in slumber without any pure knowledge. This is material energy. So if we keep ourself within the material energy, that will lead us more and more in the darkest region of hellish condition of life. Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Those who are too much materially affected, to associate with such person means you remain within the material energy. And if you associate with persons who are great souls, who have taken the shelter of spiritual energy, your path of liberation will be open. This is the purport. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ.

*And how I can understand who is mahat, or great soul? So that description is given. Mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ: equilibrium. They are kind to everyone. There is no discrimination. Sama-cittāḥ. That means spiritual realization, to see everyone on equal level.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*In another place it is said, brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. This is sama-cittāḥ, equally disposed to everyone, not that "He is American, so I shall be kind to him," or "He is Indian. I shall be kind to him," "He is black, I shall be kind to him." No. Everyone. Pāṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Sama-cittāḥ. This is the qualification of great soul. There is no distinction that "He is such and such person. Therefore I have no business with him." No. The preaching Kṛṣṇa is preaching to everyone. Christ is preaching to everyone. They are called mahānta. Mahānta means great soul.



*So here it is said, mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā, always very peaceful. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa śāntā. There is no disturbance. Because he knows himself, he is not disturbed by any material conditions. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual advancement of life is never hindered by any material condition. It is not that "I am under such and such condition. I cannot make any advancement in spiritual life." No. Spiritual advancement is never checked by material condition. Therefore it is said praśāntā. Vimanyavaḥ: "He is never angry, never angry." Vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ. Su... And well-wisher for everyone. That is the vision of mahānta. He is seeing that "Without God consciousness, without his relationship with God, he is suffering." Suhṛdaḥ sādhavaḥ. Sādhava, sādhu. The sum and substance... Sādhu means saintly person. So who is saintly person? Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām [SB 3.25.21]. Sādhu means, saintly person means, titikṣava, tolerant, tolerant, without being disturbed. Now, in the Western countries Lord Jesus Christ, the tolerant. He is being crucified; *still, he is praying to God, "Please excuse them." So of course, his position is different. One should try to become sādhu. Sādhavaḥ. Titikṣava kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva*-bhūtānām. So the sum and substance of sādhu means being, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ ca vyabhi... Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. If one is staunchly adhered to the service of the Lord, he is called sādhu, saintly person, sādhava. Mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye. These are the qualification of mahātmā, great soul.

So we have to find out. The Vedic injunction is, "Try to find out such person." That you have to take... Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. You find out such person and associate with him. Try to serve him, praṇipātena, by fully surrender.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninaḥ...

[Bg. 4.34]



*So we have to approach such person. As it is described here, mahat*-sevām. I have to give my service to the great soul. And these are the symptoms of great soul. So as we are finding out so many things for our satisfaction, so our real business is how to get out of this material disease, and to get out of this material disease, the prescription is given here, mahat-sevām: "Just try to serve a great soul." And who is a great soul? That is described here. Mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye.



Then the next verse it is said... This is, this sādhu, this mahātmā, generally those who are in the renounced order of life. There are four grades of life: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. The description already given, it is meant for mendicant who have nothing to do with material affairs or household life, renounced order, sannyāsī. It, that is applicable to them. But another mahātmā also is recommended here:

*ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā

*janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu

*gṛheṣu jāyātmaja*-rātimatsu

*na prīti*-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke



*Another, that gṛhastha, householder... It is not that simply sannyāsī, renounced order, those who have renounced this material connection, they can become great soul. Not necessarily. Even those who are in family life, living with wife, children, friends, they can also become great soul. They can become great soul. So how they can become great soul? Ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā. They're Such gṛhastha, householder, is not exactly meant for "How to get money, how to get money." No. Their aim is how to get friendship of the Lord. That is their aim. It doesn't matter he lives with wife and children. That doesn't matter. But what is the aim of his life? The aim of his life Mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā. This instruction is given by Ṛṣabhadeva. He is incarnation of God. Therefore He said, "One who is seeking the friendship of Me," or God, kṛta-sauhṛdārthā, "his only business is how to keep friendship with Kṛṣṇa."



*Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is a householder, and he is a kṣatriya, royal family, and he was a warrior. He knew how to fight. But his friendship with Kṛṣṇa was very, very intense. Kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa instructed Arjuna that "Arjuna, I am instructing this mystery of Bhagavad-gītā unto you." Arjuna might have said that "Why you are giving me instruction? I am neither sannyāsī, nor a very learned scholar in Vedānta or... I am gṛhastha, householder, a politician, in royal family. So why You have selected me?" Bhakto 'si: "Because you are My devotee." So this is wanted. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si [Bg. 4.3]. Not only ordinary friend; *very dear friend. So if you become dear friend like Arjuna of Kṛṣṇa, or God, then in whatever position you remain, you are mahātmā, great soul. That is required. It is not that... In the Kali-yuga, in this age, it is very difficult to accept renounced order of life. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended that "You remain in your position*-it doesn't matter-but become a mahātmā, great soul." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's recommendation. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ manobhir prāyaśo jito ajita. The process is how to become mahātmā.

*That process is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not it is His manufactured process, but it is recommended in the Vedic śāstra. What is that? Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. The process is: don't try to speculate on God. Give up this process, this bad habit. You cannot speculate. No. Jñāne prayāsa. This is called jñāna. Jñāna means knowledge, acquired knowledge. Everyone is trying to... Nobody is interested now to understand what is God, but there are some. But they are trying to understand God by mental speculation. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "This practice should be given up, speculation." Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Just become submissive, namanta. Don't think that "I am very learned scholar. I can manufacture my own way how to find out God," or "I am God," and so on, so on. This practice should be given up. Just become humble and meek. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. "Then what shall I do, becoming humble and meek?" San*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. You try to understand about God from a God-realized person. That you do. That will help you. Sthāne sthitāḥ. There is no need of changing your position. You remain wherever you are. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ manobhiḥ. Just lend your, this aural reception and try to hear about God from the self-realized person, from mahātmā. Then one day it will become so, that although God is unconquerable, you will conquer Him. Prāyena ajita jito 'py asi. You'll conquer over God. You cannot conquer God, but God agrees to be conquered by His devotee. This is the indirect meaning, to become devotee. This is the way.

And what is the devotional way? śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Just try to hear about Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. śravanam. The first is that you have kindly come here; *you are trying to hear. This is very good. This is the beginning of process. Then kīrtanam, śravanaṁ kīrtanam. Whatever you hear, you discuss amongst yourselves. That is called kīrtana. Śravanaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam. Remember about the topics of God. śravanaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda*-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanam. There are nine methods. Arcanam, temple worship. So any one of these methods will help you. If you take the nine methods, that is very good. If not, take eight. If not, take seven. If not, take six. Take five, four, three, two. Take at least one. That one is very easy-śravanam. We are opening several centers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Not only we are... There are many other centers also to hear about God. That is very essential. śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. So this process can be practiced even at home. There is no necessity that you have to change your place, you have to give up your business, you have to..., occupation, or you have to give up your family relationship. No. You remain in your... But practice this śravanam. Just like you are hearing here in this hall, you can do it at home. These books are there. I am speaking from the book. You can speak also from the book, and sit down amongst your family members and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*So the aim should be how to become friend of God. It doesn't matter whether you remain at home or out of home. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, gṛhe bā vanete thāke, 'hā gaurāṅga' bale ḍāke. Either you remain at home or outside home, you chant śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. This is the process, very simple process. And Hare Kṛṣṇa. And if you want Of course, knowledge will come automatically. If your heart is purified by this śravanaṁ kīrtanam method, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], then the heart will be purified. And God is situated within your heart. Then, as soon as your heart is purified, you'll be able to see God within yourself, within your heart. That is called meditation. You see God within yourself and see constantly: "Here is God. Here is Kṛṣṇa." That is meditation.

*So premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Santaḥ, saintly persons, or mahātmā, they develop by hearing about God constantly. They develop love of God. That is the aim of life. That is the real purpose of human life. Premā pum-artho mahān. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended that what is the actual benefit of this human form of life? To develop our dormant love for God. That is wanted, not to accumulate money. Nothing will go with us. Everything will remain. The bank balance will remain in the bank, and we have to go, and there will be fight amongst the claimants. So that will be created. But nothing will go with you. Simply your consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will help you. At the time of death, if you remember Kṛṣṇa... Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Some way or other, if you remember at the time of death Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. So it doesn't matter whether you remain outside home or inside home, what is your occupation, but do not forget your real business. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*So ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā janeṣu dehambhara-vārtikeṣu gṛheṣu jāyātmaja-rātimatsu na prīti-yuktāḥ. The symptom of a mahātmā, great soul, is described here. What is that? That dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. Those who are simply planning how to keep this body comfortable, that is the material world. Everyone is busy how to keep this body very comfortable, although it is not possible. There are so many disturbances, so many miserable condition, that there is no possibility of keeping this body in comfortable position. That is not. That is a fact. But still, we are trying. There they are called deha, dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. Just to make gorgeous arrangement for keeping this body very comfortable, they are called dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. They are simply busy how to keep this body comfortable. To such person, janeṣu dehambhara... And gṛheṣu. Although he is at home, then Jāyā means wife. Jāyā, ātma-jā, the children, and rāti, money. These things are required, household. Wife required; children required; money required; *place required. So, na prīti*-yuktāh. His business is not how to increase money, how to please the, I mean to say, relatives, how to talk with the persons interested in keeping this body. Na prīti-yuktāh. He is not interested with them. Prīti-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke. Simply just be engaged with them as far as your duty. It does not mean that "I am not attached to my wife; *therefore I shall forget my duties to wife and children." It does not mean. Yāvad*-arthāś ca loke. "As it is my duty, I must execute, but my main business is how to secure friendship with Kṛṣṇa." Such kind of gṛhastha is mahātmā.

*So there are two kinds of mahātmā. One is renounced order. They are preaching all over the world for the benefit of the society. And the gṛhastha, he may not be preaching... He can preach. Amongst his relatives, member, children, he can also preach, friends. So preaching cannot be stopped. You do small scale or big scale*-the benefit will be śravanaṁ kīrtanam. Just we like are preaching. You are hearing also, and you are chanting also. So this chanting and hearing process should be increased. One should try to become sinless and try to make friendship with God. Then our life will be successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause)

*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: Questions, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Does anyone have any questions? [break]



*Guest (1): Your Divine Grace Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, I saw in the Bhagavad*-gītā where the Lord explains to the devotee Arjuna the yoga of His cosmic form. Arjuna, however, visualized an experience, this cosmic form of the Lord. I would like to know what divine grace impart unto Arjuna so that he could visualize the cosmic form of the Lord.



*Prabhupāda: God has His form. That I explained the other day. But His form is not like our form. His form is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His body is eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful. Our, this form is not eternal, neither full of knowledge, nor blissful. So it is not that God has no form. When it is described indirectly that "God has no form," means He has no form like us. Don't think that He has no form. He has no form, material form like us, which is not eternal, not full of knowledge, not blissful. So God has form. So God's form is realized in three different stages. It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*"That Absolute Truth is realized... They are one, but realized in three different phases." Just like the example is given, I have given several times, that the sun, the sun globe and the sun-god. There is... Within the sun globe there is sun-god. His name is Vivasvān. As you refer to Bhagavad-gītā, in the Bhagavad-gītā you will find the predominating deity or the president of the sun globe. His name is Vivasvān. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Kṛṣṇa says that many millions of years ago He went to the sun globe and He preached this Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god, the president of the sun globe, Vivasvān. So there are living entities. The sun*-god is the living entity. The difference is that the living entities there, the body is made of fire. As our body is made of earth, dirt, their body is made of fire. Therefore they are so glowing, everything. It is a fiery planet, airy planet, watery planet, earthly planet-five elements. So if we cannot imagine that "Because we have got earthly body, there cannot be fiery body." That is our lack of knowledge, poor fund of knowledge. In God's creation there are varieties. So just like we can see in the water there are living entities. Their body is made of different..., not different, but different proportion of the material elements so they can remain within the water. Similarly, different proportion in every planet... In the śāstra we see. It is not that, that all the planets are vacant only. This is not very good idea. Everywhere there are living entities. So all these living entities throughout the whole universe, they are possessing body of the material elements. But God has no such body. His body is different, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So that sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, spiritual body, can be expanded, reduced. Aṇor aṇīyāh mahato mahīyān. He can expand this body, spiritual body, bigger than the biggest, and He can reduce the body smaller than the smallest. That is God's body. You cannot do that. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-caya... God is within the atom. How He is within the atom? Then anor anīyāh. He can become smaller than the smallest. He can become the bigger than the biggest. So Arjuna, when he saw the viśvarūpa, He showed him the bigger-than-the-biggest form. But His usual form is two-handed and two leg. Just like it is said in the Bible, "Man is made after the image of God." So God has got two hands, two legs exactly. But He is the omnipotent, almighty. Our power is limited, His power is unlimited. Otherwise He has got form.



Woman: Your Grace, I would like to know why you call the body, the material world, "darkness" and "diseased." You refer to the..., to the body as diseased and darkness, is but one necessary(?), but a different form of energy as the light. And darkness and light are but one of many aspects of the supreme form of energy.



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: The question is why do you refer to the material world as darkness and as a disease?



Prabhupāda: Don't you see darkness? You require light.



Woman: Dark, yes, but darkness is but another form of light.



Prabhupāda: Yes, ignorance. Darkness means ignorance. Material life means we do not know things as they are. That is darkness.



Woman: You said it in a figurative sense.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The knowledge is not perfect; therefore everyone is in darkness.



Woman: But why do you call the body and the spirit...? The spirit and the body is the polemic of light, of being, the universes.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Woman: Polemic. The counterpoint. You have darkness on one side, light on the other. Ignorance, if you want, in this aspect, identify this ignorance as darkness.



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: I think the question is why do you consider the body as a disease?



Prabhupāda: Because there is birth, death and old age. This is disease.



Woman: But if it's only one form of energy, why, one certain level of energy, and energy never gets lost.



Prabhupāda: No, there are two...



Woman: Even people die. It surely, sir, is only a different level of energy, a different form of energy. Energy never...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, material energy and spiritual energy. In the material energy you have got all these birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual energy there is no such thing. So we have to go to the spiritual energy.



Woman: What do you call disease?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: You are eternal spirit soul, and you have to undergo birth and death. That's an unnatural condition, just like a fever is an unnatural condition for a healthy person. That's a disease.



Woman: But why should the supreme energy make it a disease? It's been ordained to have that, the form of the body...



Prabhupāda: Disease you contact. Nobody forces you to contact disease. When you become diseased, you contaminate some infection, not that anyone forces you to contaminate. So when you come to the material world, it is your own disease.



Woman: But it is a disease if you have to be reborn. It's reincarnation then, going to another form of disease again. But you haven't attained the spiritual, complete spiritual...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you'll be cured of this material disease. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: Any other questions?



Guest (2): You mentioned that one must not speculate about God and also you mentioned that one must try to be sinless. Wouldn't the idea of sinless be a speculation of God?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: Wouldn't the idea of sinless...?



Guest (2): Be a speculation of God, if you say that God is...



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: You said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that one should not speculate about God and that one should be sinless. To be sinless, is that a speculation of God?



Indian man: Isn't the idea of sinless... We are... We live in sin. We do not know what sin is. So wouldn't the idea of living without sin be speculation? I don't know what sin is or not sin.



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: We live in sin, so is it not speculation to consider a sinless state?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If you speculate, then also you will not be in position to understand what is sin and what is pious. Therefore you have to hear from the authority. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ kriya na tyājyam: "These four things should not be given up: performing sacrifices, giving in charity, and practicing tapasya." So you cannot speculate. You take the instruction from authority and try to do it. It is not speculation. It is receiving the instruction from the authority.



Guest (2): But because we do not know what sin is, wouldn't whatever the authority said be purely an idea to us?



Prabhupāda: So they do not know; therefore they must search out if he is serious.



Guest (2): But is there no way of finding out what is good and bad besides obeying guru, and the because to follow the guru would obviously be to create frustration.(?)



Prabhupāda: Hm?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: Is there some way to find out good without following the rules and regulations laid down by the authorities?



Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. You cannot violate the rules and regulation. That is not possible.



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: He says that to follow the rules is to be frustrated.



Prabhupāda: Why frustrated? So many people are following the rules and regulation. What is the frustration?



Guest (2): ...if you follow rules, then isn't it obvious that you must be frustrated? You want to do something, but the rule says, "No, you must not do it."



Prabhupāda: That is tapasya. I want to do something, but the rule says, "Do not do," so I'll have to do it. This is called tapasya. I have no intention to do it, but because it is ordered by the authority, I have to do it. Just like the law... In the street you find it convenient to go by one side of the road, but the law says, "Keep to the right." So you don't like it, still, you have to go.



Guest (2): (indistinct)



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: He says that to follow the rules and regulations... These rules and regulations, they have been forced upon us in our upbringing...



Guest (2): And also that are forced upon us in any religion.



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: And he says also in religion rules and regulations are forced upon us. And does this not bring frustration because we are doing something we may not like to do? Is that your question?



Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. This is called tapasya. You have to do something which you may not like to do. That is tapasya.



Guest (2): ...you do not like to do.



*Prabhupāda: That is advised: tapo divyaṁ putrakā. Yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ kriyaḥ [SB 5.5.1]. This is called tapasya. I do not like to do something, but I have to do it because I have accepted somebody as authority. This is tapasya. So this has to be practiced. But it will be easier by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. There will be no Just like these boys, European, American boys. They are strictly following the rules and regulation, but it has become not very difficult, very easy, because they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the only method.



Guest (2): But is not to accept authority, the authority of God, is that not to speculate about God? How can I accept authority without knowing what God is? As soon as I say, "I know God," then obviously I am speculating.



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: His question is, "Is it not speculation to say that one knows God? As soon as he thinks that he knows God..."



Prabhupāda: You know also God. You know also God.



Guest (2): No, I don't.



Prabhupāda: No, You are... Or do you think you are independent of God?



Guest (2): I don't know what God is.



Prabhupāda: No, no, you do not know. Why you do not know? You do not know that you are not independent?



Guest (2): No, I do not know God.



Prabhupāda: But are you not going to die? Can you check your death? You will be forced to die, so how do you say that you are independent?



Guest (2): I haven't died, so I don't know what it is to die.



Prabhupāda: He does not know what is the meaning of death?



Guest (2): No. For me, personally, I do not know what death is.



Prabhupāda: "For me" means you are a special person.



Guest (2): I don't know what death is.



Prabhupāda: Everyone knows what is death. Everyone is afraid of death. If you do not know, then I do not know whether you are human being or...



Guest (2): No, because speculation about God. If we do not know...



Prabhupāda: So you have to learn it; then you talk. You have to learn it. What you do not know, you have to learn it.



Guest (2): Then how you learn about God if you do not know what God is?



Prabhupāda: You have to learn it. That I have said. But everyone knows that he is not independent. He is dependent. Just like you are young man. If you say, "I will not become old man," that is false. You will have to become old man. Therefore you are dependent. Why don't you think like that?



Guest (2): I don't say that I won't be.



Prabhupāda: Nobody wants to become an old man, but he is forced to become old man. How do you know that you are independent? You are dependent.



Guest (2): I'm not afraid of becoming old.



Prabhupāda: You may not be, but others are. They do not like to be old man and suffer the old man's position. [break] He says that,



māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiṁ

[Bg. 9.32]



*Striya means woman. So there is no restriction for going back to home, back to Godhead, for anyone, and what to speak of man, woman, anyone. If he wants to go back, there is no restriction. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ. This is the difference. For God there is no discrimination. Women, men have equal rights to become godly and back to home, back to Godhead.



Guest (3): How you reconcile the void... God is infinite and He is all places, and you said just now that God has form. To have form would mean that He has..., He is finite... (indistinct) And how could you reconcile these two: He is formless, and He has form. He has form and yet infinite?



*Prabhupāda: The reconciliation I have explained several times. Just like the sun globe, the sun-god and the sunshine. They are one, the light and heat. But still, sunshine is not the sun globe, and sun globe is not the sun-god. This is reconciliation. Anyone can understand. The three things, they are one by heat and light, but at the same time when the sunshine is within your room it does not mean the sun globe is within your room or the sun*-god is within your room. This is the reconciliation.



Guest (4): Do you believe that Jesus and Buddha and Kṛṣṇa are manifestations of the same God? Or do you believe Kṛṣṇa is the only...?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: Do we believe that Jesus and Buddha and Kṛṣṇa are all manifestations of the same God, or do we believe that Kṛṣṇa is the only one?



*Prabhupāda: No. They are manifestation of God. That is all right. We say, keśava dhṛta*-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "O my Lord Buddha, now you have come as Buddha, but you are the same Kṛṣṇa." We pray like that.



Guest (5): I would like to ask this question. You said that Hare Kṛṣṇa helps us along with the path of God realization. Take a simple thing like assuming I was hungry and I said, "food, food, food." That will not necessarily fill me. I'll still be hungry. How could the mere repetition of words bring about God realization?



*Prabhupāda: "Food, food, food." (laughter) That is the difference between God's name and material name. In the material name the food, the name of food and actually food-rice, dahl, capati, food*-they are different. They are different. But in the spiritual world, God and His name is the same.



Guest (4): But the significance that we give to the word "food" is the creation of man's mind, the word "God" is the creation of man's mind. We attach spiritual significance to one word and not to the other. But if you speak of everything emanating from God, that ultimately means everything He is.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you become intelligent more, then you'll inquire, "Wherefrom the food comes?" At the present moment you may chant "food, food, food," and you get food. Then, if you are intelligent, you'll inquire, "Wherefrom the food came?" That is the next step.



Guest (5): And I understand food must come from the earth, but the...



Prabhupāda: Food is coming from God. That you do not know. You are simply interested with food, but you do not know wherefrom the food is coming. That is your innocence. If you are advanced student, then your next inquiry will be, "Wherefrom the food comes?" Then you'll come to God. At the lower stage you are interested with food, but in the higher stage you'll be interested wherefrom the food comes. That is intelligence.



Guest (5): I'm not denying that one has to go through that stage. The other question I'd like to ask you...



Prabhupāda: You want to stay in the food stage, that's all. (laughter) So we are advising go further, more. That is our advice.



Guest (5): ...in going further. I'd like to know...



Prabhupāda: No. This is intelligence. If you are interested in food, that's all right. Everyone is interested in food. The child, he is interested with food only. Anything he gets, he puts into the mouth. He is interested in food. But when he grows up he understand that the food is supplied by the father, by the mother. That is progress of life. If you don't want progress, if you want to remain in the childhood stage, that is another thing.



Guest (5): One other question I have. That is the question earlier... That is the question of authority. We have a spiritual master who takes it upon himself to tell us, the ignorant, what to do. What things makes the spiritual master realize that he is the one master to show the ignorant that this is the path?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: His question is that...



Prabhupāda: God is infinite?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: What is the special quality that makes one a spiritual master to describe the infinite when God is beyond speculation?



Prabhupāda: God is beyond speculation, that's it. But the spiritual master says what God says. He does not change. That is spiritual master. Just like a child, he asks his father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "My dear child, it is microphone." So when the child says, "It is microphone," this is correct, although he is child. So spiritual master means he says in toto what he hears from God. That's all. That is spiritual master. He does not make any speculation. That is the qualification of spiritual master. He speaks what he has heard from God. That's all.



Guest (5): But isn't that an assumption that he has heard from God, not acts from his own conditioning?



Prabhupāda: God cannot be all. God is one. God means He has no equal, He has no..., nobody above Him. That is God, asamaurdhva. Nobody is more than God; nobody is equal to God. Therefore God is one.



Guest (5): If we assume that the Vedic scriptures are the, well, the realizations of realized souls and that these come from God, we have to work with the assumption that these literatures are actually telling us about God. And if we have to read the literatures and experience these truths, it is not necessarily truth as such, but maybe the condition that we have been rendered to by listening to.(?)



*Prabhupāda: In the Vedic literature the father, the teacher, the king, they are advised to look upon them as God. This is for the common person. But when he is advanced, then he goes above, that there is God above father, above king, above teacher. So according to the stages, there are different literatures in the Vedic knowledge. Sometimes demigods are also accepted. So they have also got power, but... Controller, they are also controller, but the ultimate controller is fixed up-īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. "The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa." That is the verdict of the Vedas. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior controller or person than Me." So that is Absolute. Everywhere you will find. Suppose if you accept me God, but I am controlled by somebody else. So I am not absolute God. But if you can find out somebody*-he is not only controller, but he is not controlled by anyone-then he is absolute. That is Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





761024SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.2

-

Vṛndāvana, October 24, 197



Pradyumna: "Translation: One can attain the path of liberation from material bondage only by rendering service to highly advanced spiritual personalities. These personalities are impersonalists and devotees. Whether one wants to merge into the Lord's existence or wants to associate with the Personality of Godhead, one should render service to the mahātmās. For those who are not interested in such activities, who associate with people fond of women and sex, the path to hell is wide open. The mahātmās are equipoised. They do not see any difference between one living entity and another. They are very peaceful and are fully engaged in devotional service. They are devoid of anger, and they work for the benefit of everyone. They do not behave in any abominable way. Such people are known as mahātmās."



Prabhupāda:



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



So in the previous verse it was recommended, tapo: "Don't live the life of cats and dogs." This is the advice. But be tapasvi. Tapasya. Human life is meant for tapasya, and tapasya means beginning tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. This is tapasya. Tapasya begins with brahmacarya, celibacy. No sex life. That is tapasya.



tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena damena va

tyāgena sattva-śaucyābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*The whole yogic process means how to become free from sexual desire. Indriya saṁyama. Yogam indriya saṁyama. The yoga practice... Formerly, everyone was practicing this yoga, aṣṭāṅga*-yoga, dhyāna dhāraṇā asana praṇāyāma, just to become very stout and strong in the matter of sense gratification. Sense gratification is not at all good without any restriction. That is tapasya-tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. And the first-class tapasya is to cease from sex life, either man or woman. Then tapasya begins.



*So the real purpose is tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1], to purify our existence. Therefore tapasya we have explained already. Now how this tapasya can be practiced? Tapasya can be practiced in the association of mahat, mahat*-sevā. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. People do not know what is vimukti. They do not know it. The first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā is suggesting that "You are not this body. You are within this body." And vimukti means not to accept any more this material body. That is vimukti. And Bhāgavata says, mukti definition: mukti hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa avasthitiḥ. That is mukti. Mukti means when you are situated in your original position. That is mukti. My original position is that I am Brahman, I am spirit soul. I'm not Parabrahman. That is another māyā. I am Brahman, every one of us. But I am working not as Brahman, but I am working as this body. My responsibility..., I am thinking "I'm Indian," so I'm working for nationalism, for Indian welfare and so on, so on. You are working for America or another is working for England. So this is all bodily conception. So body, I'm not body. So therefore mukti means when I shall give up this bodily conception of life, that is mukti. And so long I shall be absorbed or captivated or conditioned by the bodily concept of life, there is no question of mukti. Mukti hitvānyathā rūpam. Anyathā rūpam means I'm acting at the present moment on the bodily conception of life.

*So Kṛṣṇa in the very beginning of Bhagavad*-gītā suggesting mukti. So, "Arjuna, you are lamenting for things which no paṇḍita, no learned man, laments." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ [Bg. 2.11]. "You are talking very high high words, ideas, that 'If my brothers are killed, my sister-in-laws will be widows and their character will be polluted, the varṇa-saṅkara...' These are all bodily conception of life. You come to the spiritual platform." And what is that spirit? That is dehi. Dehi means "one who has got this body, " not "this body." This is the first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. So deha and dehi. Dehi, in Sanskrit it is said if you possess something, then there is grammatical "in" pratyaya. Deha, dehin. Guṇa, guṇin. So when you possess something, then this in pratyaya is used. So I'm not deha, I'm dehin. Therefore this word is used, dehi. Dehi means "the possessor of the body." So asmin dehe, there is the proprietor. And everywhere... And in another place, Bhagavad-gītā, kṣetra kṣetrajñaḥ. Kṣetra means "this body," and kṣetrajñaḥ, one who knows that "It is my body." That is kṣetra-jñaḥ. Ksetra..., just like ordinarily, kṣetra means land. A cultivator knows, "This is my land," not that "I am land." A driver knows that "I am the driver. I am not the car. The car is different from me." So this knowledge is imparted immediately. Then as soon as you understand that you are not this deha but you are dehi, then naturally your inquiry will be, then "I am working on the platform of deha, then what is my work?" That is called brahma-jijñāsā. This is called athāto brahma jijñāsā.

*So this spiritual culture means first of all one must know. Sanātana Gosvāmī first of all inquired this question. He was a minister, and he's asking Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "These rascal friends," grāmya*-vyavahare. Grāmya-vyavahare. In our village life or anywhere we make some friendships. Sometimes we call another man chacha, old uncle, or brother, like that. So this is called grāmya-vyavahāre. Actually, neither one is my chacha, neither he's brother, but we address like that. So therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī said, grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita. So "They say that I am paṇḍita, I am learned." And because he was brāhmaṇa, so brāhmaṇas are addressed in India as paṇḍita. So grāmya-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita, satya kari māni. "But I am so foolish that I also accept that I am paṇḍita." "Why not? You are paṇḍita. You are educated." "No. Because," āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni, "I do not know what is my actual position, what is the goal of my life. So I'm not a paṇḍita. I'm mūrkhā, mūḍha." That is the presentation of Sanātana Gosvāmī.

*So one should approach the spiritual master understanding that he's a mūḍha. Not that "I know better than my spiritual master. I can challenge." Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. So if we want to know ourself, as Kṛṣṇa... Everywhere. This is the whole idea of cultivation, spiritual cultivation. First of all, I must know what I am, whether I am this body. Kṛṣṇa said, "No, you are not body. You are within this body. You are enwrapped in this body. You are packed up within this body. First of all, know this." That is Kṛṣṇa's first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara prāptir [Bg. 2.13]. Very simple thing-that we are changing body. This is first instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So as with the association of Kṛṣṇa, by instruction of Kṛṣṇa, I can understand my position... As Sanātana Goswāmī, by the association of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he could understand his position, similarly, we should approach such person wherefrom we can understand our position. Therefore it is recommended, mahat-sevām. You do not approach Kṛṣṇa or His representative to order him or to make him your servant: "Sir, give me this, give me that." "Yes, you can take it, you can..." Flattering. So that is not the position. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur. If you want to know First of all, you know what you are. Then the question is vimukti. The same thing, same proposal. In the Vedic instruction there is no difference. Everywhere we'll find the same thing. That is standard knowledge. Not that I am saying something, you are saying something. That is not Vedic knowledge. That is speculation. Vedic knowledge means wherever you take, it is the same thing. There is no difference. Either you read Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or the Cātur-Veda or Upaniṣad or Vedānta, you'll find the same conclusion. That is Vedic knowledge. They are instructed, they are arranged in such a way that according to the position of the person one can understand. This is the Vedic scheme. The Purāṇas and the Mahābhārata, they are meant for the less intelligent class of men who cannot understand directly the Vedic instruction. But gradually by reading historical fact and instances, they can understand. Trayī na śruti-gocarā. Strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocarā [SB 1.4.25]. Vyāsadeva worked very hard to awaken the human society to the Vedic knowledge. And what is that Vedic knowledge? To understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is Vedic knowledge. Otherwise you are a big Vedānti, big student of Upaniṣad, and so on, so on, but you do not know Kṛṣṇa, what He is*-it is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. That is simply wasting time.

*So we have to approach. So mahat*-sevā. This is sevā. Do not approach the mahātmā for challenging. That is not... Then you will be cheated. If you want to be... Just like one great, learned scholar, so-called scholar, he came to Vṛndāvana and he saw Rūpa Gosvāmī. So Rūpa Gosvāmī, he said, "Sir, I have come to you." "Now, what is the purpose?" "Now, I have traveled all over India, and I had a śāstra caca (?) and I have become victorious. They have accepted me. So I have come to you to discuss on Vedic knowledge." So then Rūpa Gosvāmī inquired from him, "Actually what do you want?" "I want also that you acknowledge me that I'm a great scholar. That I want." "All right. I acknowledge you are a great scholar." "No, then you give me in writing." So Rūpa Gosvāmī gave him in writing, "I met this man; *he's a great scholar and I am defeated." He gave in writing. Of course Jīva Gosvāmī took that paper very tactfully and defeated him. So this is not the method of meeting Rūpa Gosvāmī. One should go very humbly, mahat*-sevām. Rūpa Gosvāmī is mahat. You should not go there to challenge. Then you'll be cheated. You must go to Rūpa Gosvāmī and his representative with a humble... Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. When you want to learn, you must approach that person praṇipātena. Prakṛṣṭa rūpena seva. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā.

*That is also stated in... The same thing is recommended here, that mahat*-sevām. If you want the purpose of life and if you want to execute tapasya, if you want all these things, then you should approach a mahātmā, not durātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. That is mahātmā. Mahātmā is not made by stamping that "You are a mahātmā," "You are a harijana." It is not like that. Mahātmā is different person. Mahātmā means whose ātmā is very broad-broader ātmā, not crippled. All are durātmā. Everyone is thinking, "I am this Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that." But what mahātmā thinking? He's thinking, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I am not servant of these petty things. I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, Parabrahman." Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsa. That is mahat. "I am a servant of Kṛṣṇa's servant, servant, servants, hundred times servant." The lower my position is servant, then I am great mahātmā. Ordinarily they think mahātmā, that "I am on the top, on the topmost platform." That is not mahātmā. This is our Caitanya philosophy. Mahātmā is he...,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā...



*He's mahātmā. This is mahātmā. So you have to approach such mahātmā. That is recommendation in the Bhakti*-rāsamṛta-sindhu: ādau gurvāśrayam sadhu mārgānugamanam sad-dharma pṛcchāt. These are things wanted. So if you actually want to execute tapasya, then you must approach a person who has already executed tapasya, tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Then you'll get the things. Mahat-sevām. And there you have to render your service. In humbleness, service, sevayā. You can question mahātmā not by challenging but surrounded by praṇipāt and sevā. Otherwise, you have no right to question. Just like this man went to Rūpa Gosvāmī. He has no right to waste time. So actually this discussion, instructions, are to be executed amongst the guru and the disciples, where there is submission. Otherwise there is no need of. Nowadays we hold some meeting. Some ordinary people they come to hear. But that kind of discussion Caitanya Mahāprabhu never did. Never did. Because these outsiders, they are not submissive. They come to see the fun. They do not come to learn something. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu never made any big meeting. In big meeting He was present, but kīrtana, saṅkīrtana. He was meeting in big meeting daily in the evening for four hours in Jagannātha temple, but the whole period of time was engaged in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But when there was a person like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya or Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī or Rāmānanda Rāya, like such exalted person, He used to discuss. Otherwise, He was not discussing. There was no need of discussing, because they do not approach with that humbleness. They think... Just like Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. So long Arjuna was thinking that "Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I shall reply Him equally," then Kṛṣṇa was very gravely speaking. But when Arjuna understood that "This kind of talking there will be no benefit," then he became His disciple: śiṣyas te 'ham śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. "There is no more discussion. Now I accept You as my guru."



*Guru means whatever instruction he'll give, we have to accept without any argument. Vedic knowledge is like that. You cannot interpret. As it is, you have to accept. Similarly guru's word also you have to accept. No argument. That is Vedic knowledge. That is the Vedic system. This example we have given many times. Just like this cow dung. Cow dung is the stool of an animal. So the stool of an animal is most impure thing. As soon as you touch. Even your own stool. You may be very learned scholar or devotee, but that does not meant you can touch your own stool and remain purified. No. Immediately you have to take bath. Even his own, what to speak of others'. But in the Vedic instruction we see that the cow dung, it is the stool of an animal also, lower animal than the man, and it is pure, it is said. So you have to accept pure. No argument that "Such stool is impure, even my spiritual master's stool is also impure. How is that that animal cow dung is pure?" But because it is in the Vedas it is said pure, you have to accept. Similarly the conchshell, it is the bone of an animal. The bone, if you touch any dead body's bone, you'll have to take, immediately purify. But that, this bone is placed in the Deity room. We are daily blowing the conchshell*-because the Vedic instruction. So there is no argument. If you accept Vedic instruction, you have to accept it as it is.

*Therefore we are protesting to all these rascals who are making interpretation of Bhagavad*-gītā, "You rascals, you cannot do anything. You have to accept Kṛṣṇa's word. That is Vedic knowledge. And if, you rascal, if you interpret, then you are lost and everything is lost." Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. As Kṛṣṇa says,

*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



*As soon as you give up this paramparā system, immediately the whole thing is lost, sa kālaneha... Otherwise what was the use of Kṛṣṇa speaking again to Arjuna? Because Bhagavad-gītā was there current, but Kṛṣṇa said because the paramparā system is lost, every rascal is interpreting. This is the system always. As soon as some time goes away, so many rascals come and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in their own rascaldom way. That is lost. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Therefore I am advising you again. You take it. So if we take Bhagavad-gītā in that way*-or any śāstra-through the paramparā channel, then it is all right. Just like this example. This is Vedic instruction, Vedic order: "Yes, cow dung is pure." We have to take it. This is paramparā. "Yes, conchshell is pure. Although it is bone, never mind. It is pure." The order.



*So spiritual master's order, because we do not know, therefore we have to approach mahātmā who can give me right instruction. So mahat*-sevā. So if you go to spiritual master... Mahātmā and durātmā. Two words are there opposite: brāhmaṇa and a kṛpana. Brāhmaṇa mean one who has understood the Lord, the Supreme Brahman, Kṛṣṇa, Parambrahman. He is brāhmaṇa. And means one who is bhakta, he is brāhmaṇa. A bhakta is brāhmaṇa, and a brāhmaṇa is not a bhakta, not necessarily. Because if he does not know... A brāhmaṇa may know what is Brahman, but he may not know what is Kṛṣṇa. So a brāhmaṇa has to become a Vaiṣṇava Then he is perfect. Brāhmaṇa-Vaiṣṇava. Brāhmaṇa-paṇḍita. Otherwise, if he remains simply a brāhmaṇa, then he cannot become guru. That is the instruction.

*Ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇoḥ vipraḥ. Vipra means brāhmaṇa. And he knows everything, karma-kāṇḍīya. Ṣaṭ-karma. Paṭhan pāṭhan yajan yājan dāna pratigraha. Everything. Mantra-tantra-viśaṛada. He is very expert in karma-kāṇḍīya activities, ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇoḥ vipraḥ. And mantra-tantra-viśārana: and he knows how to chant very correctly the Vedic hymns, mantra-tantra, and the tantra śāstra-everything complete. But if he's not a Vaiṣṇava, ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇoḥ vipraḥ mantra-tantra-viśārana avaiṣṇava gurur na sa syāt. If he's not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot take the position of a spiritual master. No. One should not go there. He's not mahātmā. He's still durātmā, because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. His knowledge is not complete. His knowledge will be complete, as Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. If he continues to be very learned brāhmaṇa for many, many births, then if he comes to his senses, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante, then he becomes Vaiṣṇava, when he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Because by his cultivation of knowledge he can understand vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Then he is Vaiṣṇava. To such mahātmā we have to approach. Then our life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



680504SB.BOS

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.3

-

Boston, May 4, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Just like in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there are description of great..., twelve great souls. Twelve great souls. They are just like svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Svayambhū means Brahmā. But he was also family man. And Nārada, he was renounced. He was brahmacārī. So there are twelve different description of mahātmās. Out of that, about seven personalities were all householders, but still they are accepted as great souls. Just like Bali Mahārāja and Prahlāda Mahārāja and Svayambhū, Brahmā. So out of this list of twelve persons, seven persons are gṛhasthas, householders. It does not mean that one, because he is householder, he cannot become a mahātmā, great soul. Just like here we see the five pictures, associates of Lord Caitanya. They were all householders. Even Lord Caitanya, He was householder and His first wife died. He married for the second time. Nityānanda Prabhu, He was also householder. Advaita Prabhu was also householder. Similarly Śrīvāsa, he was also householder. So it does not mean that householders cannot be mahātmā. That is not restricted.



So how householder can be a mahātmā, that is also described here.

*ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā

*janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu

*gṛheṣu jāyātmaja*-rātimatsu

*na prīti*-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke

[SB 5.5.3]



*The gṛhastha..., householder mahātmās are that their aim of life is to revive their relationship with God. That is the first qualification. Ye vā mayi īśe, their aim of life. They are living with... All mahātmā means their idea is how to attain spiritual perfection. How to attain spiritual perfection. That is mahātmā. So a householder, a gentleman or a person living with family, wife and children, his real aim is how to achieve the lost relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthāḥ. His only aim is how to achieve that perfection. And for that, janeṣu dehambhara-vārtikeṣu na prīti-yuktāḥ. Ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā janeṣu dehambhara... Therefore he's not attached at all to persons who are simply interested in material advancement of life.



*There are two classes of persons. One is interested for developing material standard of life, and one is interested for spiritual development of life. So a householder, he can also become a mahātmā, provided he has got this tendency that he wants to develop his spiritual life. Then he is mahātmā. And not interested to increase economic development, or persons who are too much attached for enjoyment. Ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā janeṣu dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. Dehambhara-vārtikeṣu means persons here in the ordinary men, they are simply interested how to satisfy the bodily needs. That's all. They are called dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. The materialistic civilization means how to keep this body very comfortably. Not only in this life. From their thinking also they accept works of piety, just like charity, religion. How? So next life they may be elevated to the heavenly planets and they can enjoy very long duration of life, association of very beautiful girls, and drink so many beverages. Their only aim is like that, how to provide this material body with all comforts. They are called dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. Deha means this body, and bhara, just to maintain this body.

*So a mahātmā, a gṛhastha, a householder who is interested to reestablish his lost relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is not interested with the association of such persons who are simply, I mean to say, interested in bodily comforts. Dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu. And then what about his own family? He says gṛheṣu. Gṛheṣu means at his home. Jāyā. Jāyā means wife. Ātmaja means children. Jāyātmaja... Rāti means wealth or money. Na prīti-yuktāḥ. They're not very much, I mean to say, addicted. Just like ordinary man, he's very much fond of house, very much fond of wife, very much fond of children, very much fond of wealth. He is not like that. Yāvad arthaḥ prayojanam. They are fond of or they are interested with their relationship as much as is required. Therefore in the Vedic languages there are two kinds of householders. One is called gṛhamedhi, and the other is called gṛhastha. Gṛhastha means one who lives with family but his interest is realization of self and realization of God. And gṛhamedhi means he has no more interest. He has no interest what is spiritual life, what is God, but he's simply interested in developing the family standard of life. So there are two classes of men. But one who is simply interested with spiritual life, they can also be claimed as mahātmā even in the household life. But his interest is only for God realization and his symptom is described that his only aim is God and he's not attached with material comfort or he's not attached with persons who are simply engaged for the improvement of bodily happiness.

Yes. It is now quarter past eight. Now, if you have got any question, you can put before me. I shall try to answer. Yes.

Guest (1): Can you tell us what the program is for Hindu priests or Hindu holy man, swami.



Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Hindu. I say the description of great souls. Either he may be Hindu or Christian. It doesn't matter. Great soul, the description or the symptom of great souls... [break] ...one has to become Muhammadan, one has to become Christian. Just like if I say that "You speak truth. Don't speak lie." It is not that it is applicable to the Hindus or to the Christians. It is applicable to everyone.



Guest (1): But in the Hindu religion do they have a certain title for the holy man? Do they call the holy man swami?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Swami means, I have described, that who has conquered over the demands of the senses. That is swami. Swami means who has attained the perfection of not being dictated by the senses. He is called swami.



Guest (1): Is that the equivalent of a Hindu priest?



*Prabhupāda: Not Hindu priest. Hindu priest... There are many so*-called priests. They are dictated by so many sense gratification. And there are many others also in other parts of the world who are restrained. So as you inquire what is swami, swami means master. And master, what does it mean? Master of the senses. Generally people are driven by the dictation of the senses. So if you can control your senses, then you become a swami.



Guest (1): Do they have a period of training or a program for the training of the swamis?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly.



Guest (1): Can you tell me how long the program takes?



Prabhupāda: That depends on the student. Yes. If you can quickly can control... There are processes. Just like we are training here. They're American boys, but we are training them in that process. We don't allow our students to have illicit sex life. We don't allow our students to indulge in nonvegetarian diet. We don't allow our students for intoxication. And we don't allow our students for gambling. So these four principles they are practicing, they are chanting, and they are restraining. In this way, when one is trained as brahmacārī, then he can become a swami later on. Yes. The training is there.



Guest (1): Is there a process of training to become swami, a process of training?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The real aim is spiritual realization. But for realizing perfect spiritual life one has to undergo some training. Just like if one is serious of being cured of a certain type of disease he has to undergo certain type of training or regulation as prescribed by the physician. Then he gets cured. Similarly, we are all materially diseased at the present time. So spiritual life means completely freed from material disease. The material diseases are birth, death, old age, and bodily diseases. They are material disease. Because I am spirit soul, I am eternal. I have no death. I have no birth. But because I am contaminated with this material body, therefore with the birth and death of this body I am thinking that I am taking birth and dying. That is my material condition of life. Actually I am not subjected to birth and death. These things are very nicely described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So the immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul, everything is described there. So there are books of authority. If we learn, if we'll be trained, then our spiritual liberation is open. Therefore it is recommended here that one should associate with great souls. Without associating with great souls we don't get all this information.



Guest (1): Does the swami, once he has been installed in office, does he every..., wear a white long coat with a white hat?



Prabhupāda: Of course, the real meaning of swami is one who has got control over his senses. It does not mean that by wearing a different colored garments one becomes master of senses. Neither it does mean that one, a man in gentleman's dress with hat and coat, he cannot control his senses. Dress has nothing to do. But according to the Vedic system... Just like there is a particular uniform that this class of men, who have renounced this world, his robe or garment should be like this. That is simply... Just like policeman has got a particular type of uniform, but that does not mean that... That may be imitated even by a thief. So that is not very important thing, to dress. You can become a swami even with your this hats and coats. That doesn't matter. Yes.



Guest (2): Swami, I'm going to work to formulate this question. I don't know if I can speak it clearly. Now it's true that a soul must evolve through perhaps many lifetimes in order to reach the point at which he is ready to attempt renunciation. Right?



Prabhupāda: No. Renunciation, that depends on your understanding. If you understand that "This thing is not good," you can renounce it immediately.



Guest (2): Then in order to reach the level at which you can understand that...



Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no question. It is no question of understanding. If you understand in a minute... That depends on the student to understand. Something, "This is bad; this is good." Now if you understand it properly, that "This is not good, bad," so you can renounce it immediately. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. So that depends on your capacity to understand what is good, what is bad. If you think that this material existence, repeated birth and death and changing this body, is not good, then you can immediately renounce and you can prepare yourself for spiritual life. But if you think that "Oh, it doesn't matter I am repeating my birth and death. It is good," then you cannot renounce.



Guest (2): Well, let's take the situation of an individual who is very deeply addicted to the senses, such as sexual...



Prabhupāda: That is only practice. There are processes by which you can give up so much addiction to sex life. There are processes.



Guest (2): Processes which would not fall into the category of what a psychiatrist would call repression? Something that would cripple the mind in some other way?



Prabhupāda: No. Why? Therefore I say if you think it is good... First of all you have to decide whether sex life is good or bad. First of all you have to understand this. If you think that sex life is very nice, then how can you give it up? It is not possible.



Guest (2): You have to approach it with jñāna.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Jñāna. That is called knowledge. But it is a fact that sex life is not good because there are so many inebrieties. Just like modern civilization, they prescribe contraceptive method. Why? Why? Unless there is some bad result of sex life, why they are prescribing this medicine? Why? If it is good, then why the medicine counteractive? Therefore it is to be accepted it is not good. By reason. Why there are contraceptive methods? Let everyone enjoy sex life and let the result be there. Why contraceptive method? Therefore it is not good.



Guest (3): It's against the reproduction of human species.



Prabhupāda: That means that is not good. You think that is not good therefore. Therefore this process is not good. If the result is not good, then process is not good.



Guest (3): Well, if everybody remained celibate,



Prabhupāda: That you can voluntarily do. That is brahmacārī. That is restraint. That is mahātmā. That is recommended in Vedic life, that you can have sex life only for children. That's all. Therefore sex life without any desire of children is not good. Yes.



*Guest (2): Now, what is the situation of an individual who is double*-minded and split, who is perhaps convinced, okay, intellectually, but nonetheless is torn by very deep emotions and distractions, very deeply sunk in māyā. Are there ways of dealing with his kind of problem? Do we have to force him, or is there some...



Prabhupāda: First of all you have to understand that this material life... Material life means birth, death, old age and disease. Just try to understand. Do you like repeated birth, repeated death? Do you like?



Guest (2): I have to work for those now.(?)



Prabhupāda: Do you like? First of all answer. Do you like it?



Guest (2): No.



Prabhupāda: Do you like old age?



Guest (2): No.



Prabhupāda: Do you like disease?



Guest (1): Oh, no.



*Prabhupāda: That is materialistic life. As soon as we get this body, there is birth, there is death, there is old age and there is disease. Therefore if you want real happiness then you have to get free from all these four*-miserable life. That is spiritual life. You have to become free from birth, you have to become free from death, you have to become free from old age, and you have to become free from disease. That is real life. "I don't like this" means this is not real life. The real life is different. So if that real life you want, then you have to follow the process. That is being discussed here. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1].



Guest (4): Will the Swami give another service in the Arlington Street Church any time in the future?



Prabhupāda: Arlington?



Jadurāṇī: Are you going to be there again, he wants to know.



Prabhupāda: Arlington Church? Yes, I was there.



Guest (4): Will you be there again some time in the future?



*Prabhupāda: That, if you arrange, I can go. I am at your service. I have dedicated my life for this. Whenever you call me, whenever you invite me, I can go anywhere. Why Arlington Church? I can go to any place. Because it is my duty to give you, to deliver you this message of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. That is my duty.



Guest (5): Swami, what is om?



Prabhupāda: Om is the concentrated name of God.



Guest (5): Can one say om instead of "Kṛṣṇa" and gain the same benefit?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. But why instead of Kṛṣṇa? If one Kṛṣṇa is the same, why not Kṛṣṇa? Why stick to om? Om. Om is formless but Kṛṣṇa has got beautiful form, enjoying. And we are addicted to beautiful form. Why something (chuckling) which is not beautiful? Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, akṣarāṇām akāro 'smi: "Amongst the alphabets I am oṁkāra." So Kṛṣṇa says that "I am oṁkāra." So in one sense oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa the same. But I can see Kṛṣṇa very beautiful and so many things, but I do not see in oṁkāra that thing. Therefore my preference should be to Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I stick to om? Yes.



Guest (6): Swamiji, how... What kind of a capacity is knowledge?



Prabhupāda: Capacity of knowledge?



Guest (6): Yes. Does that depend on his..., the previous body of the soul?



*Prabhupāda: No. You can earn the capacity in this life also. You forget whatever was in your previous life. It doesn't matter. The śāstra is there and the spiritual master is there. The saintly persons are there. If you try to understand from right sources, then your knowledge is there. It is not that because in previous life you had been something, therefore you cannot understand. It is not like that. You, as human being, you have got the capacity to understand. Just like I am explaining that "Do you like death? Do you like birth? Do you like disease? Do you like old age?" Everybody will say, "No, I don't like." Then the next point is if you want to avoid it, if there is any process, do you like it? Certainly you'll say, "Yes. I like it." So this is commonsense affair. It doesn't require any great achievement or pre*-education. These are commonsense things.



Guest (4): What I... I was going to ask you, Swami, if the sacred cow was a symbol symbolizing compassion for all living creatures?



*Prabhupāda: Not only cow. Any animal, they should be object of our compassion. If we want to eat something and live, so if you have got sufficient foodstuff in other kingdom... We have got vegetables, we have got grains, we have got milk. So many things. Fruit, flower. So many things. Just like we are living on these things. We don't feel any inconvenience. And they are... According to medical science also, they are very rich in vitamins, food value. So why should we kill? Especially if we are human being, the cow is supplying us milk, the most important foodstuff. So instead of giving protection to the cow, if we kill, do you think that is very..., if you kill me, is that very good gratitude? So at least in the human life, these senses should be there. Cow protection is recommended in the Vedic literature because it is giving the most valuable foodstuff, milk. Apart from other sentiments, it is supplying, and in exchange of nothing. She simply eats some grasses from the ground. That's all. You don't have to provide cows with foodstuff. The things which you refuse, you take the grain and you supply the skin. You take the fruit pulp, you supply the skin. You take the, I mean to say, from paddy. You take the rice. You supply the straw and she delivers you a very nice foodstuff. And I have discussed all these points in my Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that human economic problem can be solved simply by having some land and some cows. That's all.



Guest (4): Cows would increase and multiply.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Every living entity will multiply. That is another thing. I mean to say from cow you get milk. From milk you get butter and so many milk products. And from the fields you get sufficient grains and fruits. So your economic question is solved immediately. If you have got some land, the land is..., immense land is still lying vacant all over the world. Yes. But they have diverted their energy in a different way. That is the miscalculation of the present civilization. They have forgotten that the aim of human life is to advance oneself in spiritual realization. So time should be saved as much as possible, and that time should be utilized for spiritual realization. But we have encumbered our civilization in such a way that we have lost all simple living thing. We have manufactured in so many ways encumbered ways of life. Therefore we have neglected spiritual life. And because we have neglected spiritual life there is no peace. If you want really peaceful life, then you have to make your material necessities simplified and engage your time for spiritual cultivation. Then you will have peace. And that is the best type of civilization. Plain living, high thinking. Now, in the modern days, the high living and plain thinking. Eating, sleeping, mating. This is plain thinking. This thinking also in the animals. They are also thinking what to eat, where to live, how to defend, how to have..., have semen or sex life. These are problems in animal life also. So if we keep that animal life problem, at the same time we claim that we are civilized, is it very nice? Civilization means how to get out of this material miseries*-birth, death, disease and old age. That is real advancement of civilization. If there is any way and means to get out of this problem, then we must adopt in this human form of life. And that is possible in this human form of life. In no other life.



Guest (7): Swamiji, are the Hindus essentially vegetarian in the sense of the Seventh Day Adventist...



Prabhupāda: Not necessarily all Hindus are vegetarian. Not necessarily. There are many Hindus who are worse than others. So it is not that because one is Hindu or one is Indian, he's vegetarian. No. But generally Hindu culture is based on this Vedic civilization. So those who are strictly following, they're following the rules and regulations. So any other questions? Yes, you can ask. We are very glad to discuss all this. This should be discussed.



Guest (2): Well, I don't feel that the issue I brought up before was entirely clarified... (noise)



Prabhupāda: They have no training, you see. These children, no training. So it is a risky civilization. We don't train our children and they are going to be future... Child is the father of man, or what is called?



Guest (4): Child is the father of man.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So if from the beginning there is no training, so how we can expect good father and good children?



Guest (4): They're the divine folk.



Prabhupāda: Divine folk? They don't require any training?



Guest (4): They're born divine; they have their own divine religion.



Prabhupāda: They don't require any training?



Guest (4): They have the religion. They have the one and only religion.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but religion does not mean that one should be not trained up. Does it mean?



Guest (4): They're supposed to be divine.



Prabhupāda: They're supposed. That's all right. Yes?



Guest (2): Let me try to delineate that a little more precisely. I have known people who have said, "Well, yes, you know I don't like birth, and I don't like death, and I don't like old age. But I have a tremendous driving need, and I don't know how to deal with it. You see, I must have sex. I must have sex. And I'm tormented. I'm stuck in the trap. I'm ensnared." You see? That is the individual I'm... Now if you can already reach the person through jñāna and convince him, and he can act on the decision of his will, then he's obviously already in a high state. But what do you do with the sort of person who is split, who is torn by his instinctual physical needs and they drive him? You see? And yet he wants to do something. How can you deal with such a person without forcing him to contain himself in such a way that he will resent it? Or must he be allowed to expend his energy until he is convinced by experience?



Prabhupāda: No. Just like amongst our students there are many married couples also, and there are brahmacārīs also. That I barred from this? He is not barred. Nobody is barred. Simply following some regulation. That will gradually train him. And the main principle is that as you go on hearing about this transcendental message, then you gradually become attached to these transcendental things. And the more you become attached to these transcendental things, the more you forget these material things.



Guest (2): So it's an evolutionary process, and one need not force.



Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of force. There is no question of force. We don't force. There is no question of force. Force cannot act. If I force you, then it will not act. You have to evolve yourself, from this platform to this platform. That is possible for everyone.



Guest (2): So if someone feels he has an overwhelming need, he shouldn't try to hold back to the point at which he suffers pain, but he should also chant or do something that will elevate him. And gradually he will...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. First thing is... Suppose a man is too much sexually addicted. If he hears that "This is impediment to my spiritual advancement," if he hears repeatedly, then he thinks of his weakness, that "This should not have been done, but I am so weak." So with this knowledge he can advance. You see. At least, he must know that "This is not good for my spiritual advancement." Then it will be... Then Kṛṣṇa, or God, will help him. There is an English proverb, "One who helps himself, God helps." Yes. God's help will come. So there is no question of despair. Anyone can begin, and the simple beginning is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So all our students, they were also addicted to such things, but by following this process they are also now free. So it is not impossible. There is no such program which is impossible to be performed. No. Practically this program is the simplest and the easiest process, and it can be adopted by anyone in any condition of life. That is the beauty of this process.



Guest (5): And how does yoga...?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not possible for us. Because yoga practice, if you really aim to the perfection of yoga, that is not possible in this age. If you are satisfied simply by some sitting posture and paying the fees, that is your business. You can do that. But it will never get you to the perfectional stage because you are completely unable to perform all the regulation and rules of yoga system. That is not possible. That I have described in many... Yes. So yoga system is very difficult for this age. But if you think that this fractional practice of yoga, a hundredth, one percent... That is not possible to reach to the perfectional stage. The perfectional stage is that if one is perfect in the yoga practice, he shall die at his will. Material laws cannot act upon him. He'll be practiced to control the inside air in such a way that whenever he thinks fit, that "Now I shall leave my body for such and such planet. I shall go to such and such planet," the yoga system will help him*-if he is perfect. But who is such perfect man in the yoga system? It is not possible.



Guest (2): But there have been yogis in India who have reached that...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. But they do not come out. Because the yoga system is to practice in a secluded place alone. It is not a business that you have to open some yoga class and practice it. No. It is... First principle is that he must be alone and in a secluded place, in a sacred place. You see that they are described in the standard yoga śāstra. So they do not come, those who are really achieving perfection. They do not come out to the human society.



Guest (4): How about... Do you know about Paramahaṁsa Yogānanda? Have you heard of Paramahaṁsa...?



Prabhupāda: Yes, I have heard about him. But I say the real yogis, they do not come out. Because that will fail. It is clearly stated that he must live in a secluded place alone. Then yoga practice perfection is possible.



Guest (2): In other words, he has no public ministry of any kind.



*Prabhupāda: No. It is not like that. He must be alone and in a secluded place and a sacred place, and the process is to sit... (aside:) Thank you very much. You should sit like this, you should eat like this, you should sleep like this. There are so many... They, they gave up... There were many yogis in the history. Just like Viśvāmitra. He was a great king. He gave up everything for practicing yoga. Why? He was king. He could practice yoga. Now, the yoga practice was recommended to Arjuna. He said, "Oh, it is not possible for me." So it is not possible... Even five thousand years ago a person like Arjuna, he refused: "Oh, it is not possible for me." How ordinary man who has not practiced even controlling the senses and other things? No. It is not possible. The yoga practice is accepted as a standard way of self*-realization. That is all right, provided it is cent percent properly executed. That is... Cent percent properly executed. Yes. But that is not possible in this age. Nobody can do that.



*Guest (1): Can the Bhagavad*-gītā be sung?



*Prabhupāda: Bhagavad*-gītā? Yes.



Guest (4): It is song of light?



Prabhupāda: Yes. All right. Now have saṅkīrtana. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Jāhnavā(?): Chant śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya?



*Prabhupāda: Śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda. Oh, yes. Chant. (kīrtana) (prema-dhvani) Distribute prasādam. The whole process is that we are aiming at the highest perfection of life. If there is little inconvenience by following the rules and regulation, we should accept it because aim is very high.



Guest (4): One of the big ideas is the idea of "All life is divine, and divine compassion for all life."



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Guest (4): It's one of these big ideas, that all life is divine, and therefore we should have divine compassion for all forms of life.



Prabhupāda: First of all you know what is divine life, then you will have...



Guest (4): Oh. But when we find out...



Prabhupāda: If you do not know what is divine life, then how you can distribute divine life to everyone? First of all you have to understand what is divine life.



Guest (4): The life which is of divine origin and therefore...



Prabhupāda: But what do you mean by divine?



Guest (4): A creator. A God creator. And therefore, since we are included, we are created by God and should have divine compassion.



Prabhupāda: There are so many creations, but which creation you have to accept? God is creator of so many things.



Guest (4): Well, He created us also.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is creator. He is creator of everything. But why divide everything "bad" and "good"? Now, why do you distinguish "This is good" and "bad"? If everything is created by God, but that does not mean that everything is divine. Do you follow? Yes. You have to learn what is divine. Not that because God... God is creator of everything.



Guest (4): But we should have divine love for life...



Prabhupāda: Therefore I say what is divine love?



Guest (4): What is divine love?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (4): Compassion.



Prabhupāda: That we have to know. Without knowing how to become compassionate... Just like I'll give you a practical example. This is my personal experience. One boy was suffering from some typhoid disease, and he asked his younger brother, "Please give me some biscuit." He is forbidden to take biscuit because he was suffering from... And he thought, "Oh, my brother is suffering for want of biscuit." So he supplied some biscuit. And the mother, when she learned that this young boy has supplied this diseased boy biscuit, she began to beat him like anything. So he thought that "I'm doing very divine service to my suffering brother." But the result was beating by the mother. Therefore one should know what is service. Otherwise he will suffer. Without knowing what is divine service, one cannot be divinely compassionate. First of all one should make his own life divine; then he can make divine compassion.



Guest (4): Isn't it a simple idea to love life?



Prabhupāda: The same thing. If you do not know how to love, then your love may produce bad result. Just like the same example. The boy, the younger boy thought that "I am loving my elder brother," and he supplied some biscuit, which was forbidden by the physician. And as soon as the mother heard that he has supplied him biscuit, he began to beat him like anything. Punishment. He thought, "It is very good service. He's in want of, in need of biscuit. So I am supplying him, stealing from the store. Mother will not know. So I am doing very good service." But the result was beating. Similarly, we may think something that it is divine, but who is judging that this is divine or not divine? Therefore you have to learn how to serve divinely, then you can serve. Without knowing, you cannot. That will be disastrous. Everything requires expert knowledge; otherwise it will be disastrous.



Guest (4): But isn't the general idea...



*Prabhupāda: General idea is very good, but the one who is going to bestow divine service, he must know what is divine service and how to become divine. Lord Caitanya says, āpani ācari prabhu jīvera śikhāya. One has to first of all exhibit himself that he is divine, then he can, I mean to say, serve others divinely. "Physician heal thyself." If a physician is diseased, a patient does not like to go to him. "Well, he is himself diseased." So divine love is very good, but one should understand what is divine love. One should not misunderstand what is divine love. Just like in the material world, lust is accepted as love. A boy is loving a girl, a girl is loving... But it is lust. That is not love. But is going on in the name of love. The boy wants to enjoy the girl, the girl wants to enjoy the boy, and that is going on in love. Love is not like that. Love means, "I enjoy or not enjoy, I love you." That is love. Just like Cowper said, "England, with all thy faults, I love you." That is love. There is no return. Just like Rādhārāṇī's love to Kṛṣṇa. She does not require any return. You see? Kṛṣṇa left Vṛndāvana, Rādhārāṇī, and their whole life remained simply crying for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa never returned. But still, they loved Kṛṣṇa. That is love. That love is being shown by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" That's Rādhārāṇī's separation, love in separation. So love means without any return, without any sense gratification, without any consideration. That is love. Āśliṣya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Āśliṣya vā pāda*-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām adarśanān marma-hatāṁ karotu vā [Cc. Antya 20.47]. The lover is saying to the beloved, "Either You embrace me with love or you kick me, trample me down under Your feet. And if You make me brokenhearted without meeting me, so whatever You like, You can do. Still I love You." That is love. That is only possible to love Kṛṣṇa. That is not materially possible. Here the so-called love means he or she wants some return for sense gratification. So there the so-called love is lust. It is going in the market in the name of love. There is no love.



Guest (4): Is this Kṛṣṇa in this painting here? Right here. No, no, the next one.



Prabhupāda: He is Kṛṣṇa. Yes. He's loving the calf.



Guest (4): It is a calf?



Prabhupāda: Yes. The calf has come to Kṛṣṇa like this, and He is embracing: "Yes, come on." You... Just see. The calf has no education, no knowledge... (end)





730909SB.STO

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.3

-

Stockholm, September 9, 1973



Prabhupāda: So,



*ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā

*janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu

*gṛheṣu jāyātmaja*-rātimatsu

*na prīti*-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke

[SB 5.5.3]



So it has been recommended... (aside:) It is not working?



Haṁsadūta: It's not working?



*Prabhupāda: What is the use of keeping big, big paraphernalia? Bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. Ārambha, arrangement is very big, but work is no, no work. What is the use of keeping useless machine? So that is going on. In the material world, everything is bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. That has been spoken by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Ajā yuddhe muni śrāddhe. Ajā yuddhe. Ajāḥ means goats. You have seen goat fighting? As if, though, two big, big heroes are fighting. But as soon as somebody comes: "Hut!" they'll go away. Have you seen, experienced? Goats and lambs, they'll fight: (makes sound:) "Onh, onnh." Like this. But, but as soon somebody comes: "Hut!" So this is one of the example of bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. Ārambha, as if something very serious going to happen. But actually it is nonsignificant. Ajā yuddhe muni śrāddhe. Muni, in the jungle, in the forest, there are munis. So they are arranging for some festivals to offer oblations to the forefathers, śrāddha. So what they have got? They have got some fruits and leaves. That's all. So the arrangement may be that "Tomorrow, we are going to have this festival." But the festival means some leaves and some water. That's all. No utensils, no gold, no jewels, nothing of the sort. So this is another bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. Arrangement is very big, but fact is nothing. And dāmpatya kalahe caiva. And fight between or quarrel between husband and wife. In India, there is no question of divorce. So nobody takes very serious care when there is fight between husband and wife. So there also: "I'm going to immediately leave you, going to kill you..." and so many things. But after an hour, everything is finished. No more quarrel. Dāmpatya kalahe caiva prabhāte megha*-garjane. And in the morning, if you see big cloud assembly and thundering sound, but you rest assured. There will be no rain in the morning. So these things are bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. Ārambha, beginning is very gorgeous. But end is nothing. So that is not good, bahvārambhe laghu kriyā.



*So here, it is suggested that in this human form of life, you have got two choices. Either you again go to hell or you go back to home, back to Godhead. Two choices, that in, by evolutionary process, you come to the human form of life after going through eight million forms of lower*-grade life. Then you come to this human form of life, when your consciousness is developed. You are not exactly like animals. The animal propensities are there, but it is decent. Because you have got good, advanced consciousness. The animals eat; *we also eat. But our eating process is more decent than the animals. We have got nice kitchen. We can prepare varieties of foodstuff by mixing so many eatables. Because we have got intelligence, we can do. The animals cannot do. So similarly, sleeping. There are animals. There are animals. They also sleep. We also sleep, but our apartment is very nice, we have got nice bed*-in a improved way.

So this life is, human life is the sum total of developed consciousness. That is to be understood. But we are not utilizing it. How this developed consciousness should be utilized, that education is lacking. The modern civilization, specially in this age, they are simply busy... Advancement of civilization means advancement of the process of eating, advancement of the process of sleeping, advancement of process of sex life, advancement of defense. That's all. But that will not help us. Just like there are thieves. There were some thieves. They have got very organized system of stealing. Very educated man, scientist, they can enter into the bank safety room. With scientific method, they can open the chest, treasury, and take, at a time, millions of dollars away. And there is another kind of thief, they simply pickpocket or burglar when they get opportunity, take away some goods from your house. In Hindi, it is called hīrā and kṣīrā. Somebody is stealing kṣīrā. Kṣīrā means cucumber. Just like we saw on the street. In so many houses, there are so many fruits, apples. If we like, we can take it. But if we take it beyond the fence of that private house, it is criminal. It is criminal. If you take one apple, it, it has no cost here practically. And somebody's stealing from your box hīrā. Hīrā means diamond. But if these two classes of thieves are arrested, according to law, they are punishable for six months imprisonment. The man cannot say, who has stolen one apple, "Oh, what is the price of this apple, sir? I have taken one apple. Why you are putting me into jail?" But law is there. Even it is apple, it has no value, because you have stolen, it is the property of a private person, so, as you have stolen, therefore you are punished. And similarly, another thief, who has stolen a diamond worth ten millions dollars, he's also punished. Because both of them are thieves. You cannot say that "I am thief, certainly, but I have taken which is practically has no worth." No.

Similarly, if you become a advanced, civilized man simply to make a gorgeous scheme, bahvārambhe, of this eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, you remain animal. These, these things they cannot understand. This rascal civilization, they think this is advancement of civilization. They cannot think that with this advancement of civilization of industry, big, big cities, electric light, big, big road, motorcars and... But what is the basic principle? The basic principle is eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Just like the basic principle being stealing, you are thieves. Either you are expert thief for stealing diamonds or you are not expert, but you can steal one apple or one peach, both of you are thieves. So you are punishable. You are punished. The gorgeous thief, scientifically stealing from the bank millions of dollars, he cannot say that "I am advanced thief. I am very civilized way, take. I take, at a time, millions of dollars. Therefore, my stealing is advancement of civilization." These rascals, they cannot understand this. Therefore we call all of them rascals. They may say that "We are so much advanced. You are crazy." Yes, but just see. The law is either you are advanced thief, or you are a crude thief, you are thief, and as soon as you are thief, you are punishable. This is the process.

*That is the defect of modern civilization. They are going to hell, and they're thinking they're advanced. This is the defect. Adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇā... Carvita-carvaṇa means chewing the chewed. Actually, we see. The advanced thieves, rascals... I heard. Who told me? In Paris, there are clubs, very, very big men, politician, businessmen, they go to night club. They pay fifty dollars for entering club, and they spend hundreds of dollars for wine and women. What is that term? Topless, bottomless. Yes. Just see the rascaldom. He has got wife. The same sex pleasure. Again, they are going to the night club. This is called carvita-carvaṇa, chewing the chewed. The rascal does not know, "What great pleasure I shall get there, in the nightclub?" The same thing. But they have no other ways of thinking. They have no information that there is another pleasure, which is transcendental pleasure, which is better than this material pleasure. They have no information. Therefore rascals. Old man, he's going also for the same thing. He cannot enjoy, but he'll spend, say five hundred dollars, thousand dollars, for nothing, and waste time. This is called carvita-carvaṇānām. And why do they do? Adānta-gobhiḥ. Go means senses. Cannot control the senses. This is the defect. Because these rascals cannot control the senses, remain the same cats and dogs. Just like the dogs, the cats, they cannot control their senses. On the street they have sex life. And human being also, in the Western country, I have seen. In the open street, open beach, they are having. How horrible it is. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30].

*Therefore, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is needed*-to give these rascals the chance of associating with devotees. This is this business, mission. Otherwise, they are going to hell. In spite of their so-called civilization, motor tire civilization, they'll go to hell. But they cannot understand. They're thinking, "Oh, these people are crazy. Let us enjoy. After this life, everything is finished. So long this life is there, better enjoy. Let us enjoy." That is explained: yad indriya-prītaye. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Oh, alas, these rascals, they have become mad, pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Mattaḥ means mad. And pra means prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa, still more, still more. A mad man, he's not so harmful. He is... Sometimes he becomes naked and goes to the street and talks nonsense. That much. But this man, although he's dressing like a gentleman, and talking of scientific and philosophy, but he is simply after this sex pleasure, pramattaḥ. He has no other... So therefore this word has been used-pramattaḥ. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa mattaḥ.

*Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Vikarma means forbidden, criminal activities. There are three kinds of activities: karma, vikarma, akarma. Karma means prescribed duties. That is karma. Just like sva*-karmaṇā. In the Bhagavad-gītā: sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. Everyone has got prescribed duties. Where is that scientific understanding? There must be... As I was talking the other day, scientific division of the human society. The most intelligent class, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Less, little less intelligent, they should be trained up as administrator. Less intelligent, they should be trained up as traders, agriculturalists and cow protector. The economic development requires cow protections, but these rascals do not know. The economic development's cow killing. Just see, rascal civilization. Don't be sorry. It is śāstra. Don't think that I am criticizing the Western civilization. It is śāstra says. Very experienced.

*So there are so many economic development advocates, but they do not know that cow protection is one of the items of economic development. These rascals, they do not know. They think cow killing is better. Just the opposite. Therefore kurute vikarma. Simply for little satisfaction of the tongue, the same benefit you can derive from the milk, but because they are rascals, madmen, they think that eating or drinking the blood of the cow is better than drinking milk. Milk is nothing but transformation of the blood, everyone knows. Everyone knows. Just like a human being, mother, as soon as the child is born, immediately... Before the child is born, you don't find in the breast of the mother any drop of milk. See. In a young girl, there is no milk in the breast. But as soon as the child is born, immediately there is milk. Immediately, spontaneously. This is God's arrangement. Because the child requires food. Just see how God's arrangement is there. Still, we are trying for economic development. If a child is born and God's economic program is so nice, nature's economic program, that immediately the mother is ready with the milk... This is economic development. So the same milk is supplied by the cow. She's actually mother, and this rascal civilization is killing mother. Mother*-killing civilization. Just see. You suck the breast of your mother from the beginning of your life, and when she's old if you think, "Mother is useless burden. Cut its throat," is that civilization?

*So these rascals are doing that. Taking milk as much as possible from the cows, and then as soon as... Milk is not stopped, it will again come if the cow is protected, given right nutritious food and protection, cow will supply you milk so long she lives. As long as she lives. But as soon as they see that the cow... "Now they were giving thirty kilos. Now it has decreased, twenty kilos or ten kilos. Oh, economic development. Cut its throat." Economic development. Just see how rascal civilization it is. Therefore, it is called nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Vikarma. Vikarma means criminalities. You cannot kill anyone. Just like in the state laws, if you kill somebody, then you'll be hanged. This is the law: life for life. That is sanctioned in the śāstras, Manu*-saṁhitā. When a person is a murderer, he should be killed. Why he should be killed? Because he'll be saved from so many dangerous conditions in his next life. That they do not know. They do not believe in the next life.

*So without knowing, without sufficient knowledge, they are declaring themselves as civilized. That is mentioned here, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And why they are doing that? Yad indriya*-prītaye, simply for the satisfaction of the tongue. That is also false. If you have got enough milk production, you can take, break the milk, and you get cheese. And from cheese, if you... We are daily doing that. You can make nice preparation, chānā. That is very nutritious, full of protein. And you can make rasagullā, sandeśa, so many other preparations from the casein of the cheese. But they do not know. Crude civilization, and take a lump of flesh and boil it and give little salt and black pepper and eat like animal. This is civilization. This is civilization. Just try to understand. You have to convince your countrymen that what is this civilization, nonsense civilization? Stop this kind of civilization. Learn how to become civilized. Don't claim yourself as civilized man and eating like tigers and dogs and cats. Is that civilization? But they are doing. That is stated here. It is not new. Always, there is a certain class of men, demons, who are not civilized, but declaring themselves as civilized. Otherwise, how it has come into Bhāgavata? There were also in that time. Now the number has increased on account of this age. But these two classes of men are always there.

*Therefore, those who are actually civilized, they are called Aryans, ārya, Aryans, advanced. Advanced in knowledge how to live, what is the purpose of life, what is goal of life, how to live, how to become peaceful, how to become, everything. That is civilization. And nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4], and blindly go on committing criminal activities under a nice dress, and nice motorcar, that is not civilization. Adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. They are going to hell under the good dress and good road. They are going to hell. Because they could not control the senses. So don't become victims of this civilization. Try to understand. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And what is the purpose? Yad indriya-prītaye. The same thing. Indriya-prītaye means satisfying the senses. So that already explained, that sense gratification process is already there in the animals. The hogs and dogs, they are also busy in sense gratification. Then why, why you are calling yourself civilized than these cats and dogs? They are also eating meat, just like tiger. And because you can cook it very nicely with spices, you become civilized? But they have taken, "No, we can cook very nicely." Because in the flesh, there is no taste. So it has to be added with garlic, it has to be added with onion, and somehow or other... Then it becomes little palatable. Otherwise, what is the taste of this dead flesh? Suppose if you... But those who are after this blood, they find taste. So that is tigers' and dogs' and cats' civilization; that is not human civilization; that is not human civilization.

*So simply for sense gratification, you are prepared to commit so many criminal activities, and you are passing on as civilization. Therefore it is said, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. Āpṛṇoti. Na sādhu manye, Ṛṣabhadeva says: "O My dear boys, it is not very good." Na sādhu manye. Sādhu means honest work, nice sādhu means saintly person or good. It is not good. Why it is not good? I am enjoying, enjoying. Enjoying means palate, very nice. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. You do not know that you have got this material body. And what is this material body? Material body means full of miserable condition. That's all. Who has got a material body, they do not understand what is spiritual body. So suppose material or spiritual, anyone who has got this body, can anyone here say, "I have no trouble, I am free from all trouble"? Is there anyone? Is it possible to say? What do you think? Can anyone say that "Yes, I've got this body, but I have no miserable condition, I'm always very happy"? Is there anyone? That rascal civilization, they cannot understand. They are trying to stop miserable condition, but he does not know that miserable condition is his body. Just see how much foolish (it) is. He does not know that this very body is the cause of your miserable condition. They do not know. They are trying to improve the condition. How you'll improve the condition? Just like in our Bengal there is a word, jadi jau bange kapala jabe sange (?). Just like people are going from this country to that to improve economic condition. But it is a common saying that "Wherever you rascal go, your fate will go with you." Either you go to England or India or here and there... Because people are struggling for economic development. But he does not know that I cannot make an inch of development beyond the destiny which is already fixed up. Already fixed up.

*Don't you see that two men, they are working day and night, very hard. One man has become all of a sudden millionaire, and another man, he has no employment. Why? Why this distinction? Both of them have worked hard to improve economic development, but one has become very quickly millionaire, another is still struggling. He does not know how to eat tomorrow. Why this arrangement? Who has made this arrangement? So this is actually study-that you cannot change your fate. Already fixed up. The material condition of life, as soon as you get a certain type of body, your pains and pleasure already fixed up within the body routine work. You cannot make any change. Just like the-I have given many times*-the pig, he's destined to eat stool. Therefore he has been awarded that type of body. So however you canvass this pig, "Why you are eating the stool? Take this halavā," he'll not take. It will not take. Because his destiny means he has got that particular type of body. So these are finer studies.

*So according to the body, everyone's happiness and distress is already fixed up. You cannot change it. That is called fate. That is called fate. But you can change your fate if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is possible. So far your body is concerned... Take for example, just all of you, you were accustomed to the Western way of life, eating meat or drinking or illicit sex or so many things. But because you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you have stopped. Nobody can stop. No government can do it. Is there any possibility? Not possible. Not possible. Therefore, if you want to change your lot, your destiny, then you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other way. This so*-called rascaldom, philanthropism this "ism," that "ism," that will not be able to change your lot. Just like these Communist countries. In 1917, I think, the revolution was there, Communist. And what is it today? Nineteen seventeen, and it is 1973, '74. How many years? How many years?

*Haṁsadūta: Fifty*-six.



*Prabhupāda: Fifty*-six years they are advocating this philosophy, Comm... What they have done? Now they are going to hold conferences, how peace. Why not peace by your philosophy, this Communist philosophy? What you could not attain working fifty-seven years, now they will attain by holding another conference. Just see. Just see the rascaldom. They could not improve anything. The same fearful of other countries. I went to Moscow. There, all people are unhappy. Their economic condition is not very developed. Simply advertisement. I was talking with that Professor Kotovsky, I asked him, "Please call for a taxi." So he was sorry, he said, "Swamiji, it is Moscow. it is very difficult to get a taxi." Just see what is the condition of the country. Then he came down personally up to the door, and he showed me one short cut, "Swamiji, if you go like this, in this way, then you'll get to your hotel." Because he was disappointed to give me immediately a taxi. Now we can understand. Either there is no demand for taxi... People cannot pay for it. That is the fact. Or the government arrange such that everyone is poor man. There is no possibility of thriving in taxi business or getting taxi. This is practical, I have seen. And actually in no other city in Europe and America I have seen so many people walking on the street. We can study. Just like there is rice cooking. You take one grain of rice and press it. If it is soft, then you know that now the rice is prepared. So it is intelligence required.



*So from this taxi affair, I could understand that these people are not happy. And another incident I saw that... Śyāmasundara was there. Even... He could not collect even nice rice, nice ḍāl, only milk was available. Milk and yogurt, that is very sufficiently available. No vegetable, no fruit, no grain, at least, men like us cannot live there happily. (indistinct) But they'll not get any food. Unless he's meat*-eater, he'll have to starve. The whole world is coming to like that. And it is said in the śāstra, gradually this condition of human civilization will deteriorate to such extent that no more rice will be available, no more wheat will be available, no more sugar will be available. Everything will be... No more milk will be available. Finished. Simply you have to eat the seeds of the... There is not fruit, only seed. Just like in the mango, there is one seed and pulp. The pulp will not be available, only seed will be available. These are already foretold. No fruits will be available, no grains will be available, no milk will be available.

*Therefore, if you are intelligent, within this short duration of life, you make your Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly done and go back to Kṛṣṇa. Don't live here, don't come here again. Take that philosophy. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then after leaving this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, punar janma naiti, no more birth in this material world. Then were does he go? So? Finished? No: mām eti, "He comes to Me." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important. Just try to understand. Don't waste your time. Finish your business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. Whatever little duration of life you have got... That is stated here: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti na sādhu manye [SB 5.5.4]. In this way, to waste time, is not at all good. Na sādhu manye. Why it is not good? Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ: Because we have got this miserable condition of life, this body... This is due to our past action. Now if you create again the same action, then you'll have to accept another body. Then your, this miserable condition of life will continue. Will continue. Just finish it.

*Therefore life, the..., whatever time we have got, whatever opportunity you have got, we have to prepare ourself. No more taking material body. That is only possible if you are transferred to the spiritual world. Then it is possible. And how it can be done? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: [Bg. 4.9] if you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Simply by this understanding. Otherwise, you'll have to accept this material body if you have got any desire to enjoy in this material world. Therefore, bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. If you take the path of jñāna-kāṇḍa karma-kāṇḍa, or without knowledge of... People do not know what is jñāna-kāṇḍa, karma-kāṇḍa. They are just like animals. So they are desiring like animals. Therefore anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Except becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, except this desire, no more other desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam: [Cc. Madhya 19.167] Simply cultivating the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness favorably, favorably, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not like Kaṁsa. Therefore, this word has been used, ānukūlyena, "favorably." Kaṁsa, he was afraid of Kṛṣṇa. He was always Kṛṣṇa conscious. Because he was thinking, "Kṛṣṇa may come, may come and kill me. Where He is now? How He's coming?" His consciousness was always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa, but it was not ānukūlyena; it was prātikūlyena. Prātikūlyena means adverse. He was thinking of Kṛṣṇa as enemy. So that was prātikūlyena. But still, he got salvation. He became merged into the effulgence. So the enemies of Kṛṣṇa get that position, merge into the Brahman effulgence. Is that a very good place for the devotees? No. Why the devotees should accept impersonal Brahman effulgence. They must go to Kṛṣṇa directly and play with Him and dance with Him.

Thank you very much. (end)



750415SB.HYD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.3

-

Hyderabad, April 15, 1975



*Prabhupāda: ...or gṛhastha or śūdra or brāhmaṇa, they are situated on the transcendental platform. So such person described here, because the recommendation is mahat*-sevā. So it does not mean mahat is only to be found in among the sannyāsīs, or fire circle, brāhmaṇas. No. Mahat can be found in other circle also, but what is the qualification? The qualification is ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā. His only business is to keep friendly relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is the first qualification.



*The first-class example is Arjuna. He was a military man, a politician, and gṛhastha, kṣatriya, not brāhmaṇa, not sannyāsī, but still Kṛṣṇa accepts him. Sakhā ceti, for you are my dear friend bhakto 'si sakhā ceti. "You are not only My devotee, you are My best friend," Kṛṣṇa says. Although he is gṛhastha, a military man, and as kṣatriya, still Kṛṣṇa accepts him that "I shall speak to you the mystery of Bhagavad-gītā, because you are My dear friend and bhakta." Bhakto 'si sakhā ceti rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam. Kṛṣṇa also wants somebody friendly. It doesn't matter whether he is a sannyāsī or gṛhastha. So any gṛhastha, whose only aim is how to keep friendship with Kṛṣṇa, he is also mahat, mahātmā. He also mahat, because the recommendation, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes [SB 5.5.2]. One has to take shelter of a mahātmā, and serve him with surrender, then his path of liberation will be open. So, if somebody says-I think the other day somebody was questioning*-that "If I cannot contact sannyāsī because I am gṛhastha, I am family man, so how my path of liberation will be open?" Yes, that is possible provided you find amongst your society a person like this, ye va mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā. If you can find out amongst your associate, a person who is only dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, you can associate with him. Then your path of liberation will be open. So that symptoms are described here janeṣu,

*ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā

*janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu

*gṛheṣu jāyātmaja*-rātimatsu

*na prīti*-yuktā...

[SB 5.5.3]



*Janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu. Generally people, they're interested how to maintain this body, because they are in bodily concept of life. Just like we pass through the streets, there are so many shopkeepers, and they're all decorating their shop to supply the needs of the body. Cloth shop, tailor shop, wine shop, this shop, that shop, but what are these shops? Dehambhara-vārtikeṣu, they are simply interested in maintaining this body, that's all. This is only business in the big, big cities, you'll find that business is going on, how to maintain this body. There is advertisement, as you look just like a human being, not some, something advertisement. So that is going on. We, our business at the present moment in conditioned life, nidrayā hriyate naktam. At night we sleep, and vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ. Vyavāyena means sex. At night our business is to sleep, and to indulge in sex. In this way we are wasting time, night. And daytime, divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā [SB 2.1.3]. And in the daytime, we are very busy going this side, that side. Why? To get some money, div ā ca artha ihayā. Desiring where I shall get money? Where I shall get money? Divā cārthehayā, and as soon as I get money, I spend it, kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā, to maintain our family. So where is time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness? There is no time sir.



*So one should not be interested in that way. Therefore it is said, that, dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu, those who are busy only for maintenance of this body, to such person, he is not interested, na prīti-yuktā. This is the sign. He, he may be a gṛhastha, it does not matter, but he is interested with Kṛṣṇa's business, not dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. Those who are interested with this body only, with them he has no interest. This is the sign. That is also mahātmā. Ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā, his only business is how to keep friendship with Kṛṣṇa. That is his only business. Then he is mahātmā. And so far janeṣu, people in general, who are simply interested how to maintain this body, janeṣu dehambhara-vārtikeṣu. And, then what about his family? Yes, gṛheṣu, at home. Jāyā, jāyā means wife. Jāyā ātma-ja, ātma-ja means children. Gṛheṣu jāyātmaja-rātimatsu, and business about earning money, na prīti-yuktā, he's not interested. Although he is at home, he is not interested at home. Therefore generally devotees, they become very reluctant in the interest of maintaining family, children, wife. Simply as far as possible, duty. So much interested, not any more. These are the signs. If you want to find out a gṛhastha mahātmā, then he has got his family, he has got his children, he has got his wife, he has got his business. He has got to meet so many other people, but they are, he's not at all interested. Simply behavior, official. "Yes, yes, it is all right. Yes, it is all right. What you say it is all right, but I am not interested." This is called disinterested. People are generally very much interested in these things.

So if you want to find out a mahātmā within the society, not as a renounced sannyāsī, then these are the symptoms. There are other symptoms. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4], that we shall describe later on. These are the general symptoms of a mahātmā gṛhastha. He is not interested in this bodily concept of life, or maintaining very opulently his family members, or talking very seriously with persons who are simply materially interested, dehambhara, just to maintain this body. Of course we require to maintain this body. He is not neglectful. There is no question of negligence. He takes care of his children, of his wife, everything, but without any attachment. That is recommended by the Gosvāmīs. That, anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. You give education to your children, that is required. You maintain your wife, that is also required, no negligence, but no attatchment at the same time. No attachment, that I shall sacrifice everything for my wife, and children, and home. That is not a mahātmā's business, because he knows that he cannot improve the destiny. Everybody has got his body with certain destiny already settled up. That you cannot change. Otherwise everyone is trying to become very rich, very important, there is no scarcity of endeavor, but not that everyone is becoming like that. That is called destiny.

*So those who are believer in the śāstras, believer in the Supreme Lord, they believe in destiny also. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. We should try for advancing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our main business. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido. Kovidaḥ means very expert. He should try for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for material advancement. This is civilization. That is, we have already discussed. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. If you think that, "If I work very hard, then I shall improve my position," that is not possible. Your position is already fixed up. Then shall I not try for my happiness? Yes. That is replied in the śāstra. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. You do not try for distress of life, why does it come? You do not ask God, "Please give me distress." Nobody asks, but why distress comes? Similarly, if you do not pray for happiness, if you have got happiness in your destiny, it will come, as the distress comes. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. So don't be misled by so-called happiness and distress. It is already fixed up. Simply try for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real business.

*Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. That business can be done very perfectly well when, mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes, when we associate with mahātmā. It doesn't matter whether he's a sannyāsī or gṛhastha, he must be mahātmā. Mahātmā means one who has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is described in the Bhagavad..., mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13], that is mahātmā. You cannot stamp anybody and become a mahātmā. No. Mahātmā's sign is, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. He has no other business. Simply he has only one business: how to please Kṛṣṇa. That is mahātmā. Ānukūlyena, just like Arjuna did. Arjuna did not like to fight. He completely denied, he set aside his arrows and bows, became very morose, and then he asked Kṛṣṇa, "I am now puzzled, you can give me instruction, what is my duty, because kārpaṇya doṣa upahata svabhāvaḥ. Actually my, it is duty, my duty, that uh I am kṣatriya, and there is fight, battlefield, I should take advantage of it, but still, kārpaṇya doṣa upahata svabhāvaḥ. I am going against my nature, so I do not know what to do, please instruct." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7].

*So, actually Arjuna was not willing to fight, because he is a Vaiṣṇava. He does not want to kill, even if he is, even if he was put into so many difficulties. That was his attitude. So his decision was that he would not fight, but for the sake of Kṛṣṇa, when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants this fight... Kṛṣṇa said finally, nimitta*-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin. "Don't think that these people who have come here will go back home. They will be killed here. That is my plan. You simply become an instrument, so that you may take the credit. I shall be happy. But they are already finished. This is my plan." So when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants me to fight, took the credit of becoming victorious. So he doesn't care for credit, but he understood that this is my duty, to please Kṛṣṇa. Then when Kṛṣṇa asked him, "What is your decision?" He said, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73], I shall fight," and he fought. This is called kṛta-sauhṛdārthā. For Kṛṣṇa's sake they can do anything.

*There are many other devotees also, just they, the gopīs, for Kṛṣṇa's sake they sacrificed everything, their reputation, their family, their husband, their father, their brother. "No, Kṛṣṇa is now playing on His flute. He wants to dance with us. Let us go." Father is asking, "Where are you going?" Brother is, "Where are you going?" "Oh, you are going to Kṛṣṇa." So this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā. One is not interested in anything else, he is only interested in Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], to serve Kṛṣṇa as He desires. So as He desires... If we have no relationship with Kṛṣṇa, no connection with Kṛṣṇa, how we can understand as He desires? Yes, that we will have. Kṛṣṇa is within you, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. As soon as you become sincere, if you are qualified to serve Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will dictate from within, "Do like this." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. To whom? Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. One who is engaged in loving service of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is very expert, He can understand how you want to serve Him, with a motive or without motive. When He understands, then He personally gives you dictation, "You do like this, you do like that." So that is Kṛṣṇa's friendship. Kṛṣṇa is always available. Kṛṣṇa can be seen twenty-four hours, provided you elevate to the position how to talk with Kṛṣṇa, how to see Kṛṣṇa, how to act toward Kṛṣṇa. It is not very difficult.

*So the symptom is described, how even a gṛhastha can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. The negative side is described that he's not interested with this worldly, so*-called advancement of social position, or advancement of economic problem. So many things they have created. These are described here. Gṛheṣu jāyātmaja-rātimatsu. Ātmaja-rātimatsu na prīti-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke. Neither neglectful as far as possible, yāvat-arthāḥ, not too much overwhelmed, because after all this is temporary. Our so-called society, friendship, love, in this material world, they are all, they are called illusory, phenomenal. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya said, jagan mithyā. He says little bluntly, but actually it has no meaning, because this social condition of life is existent so long this body is there. As soon as I change my body, even in this country We are very much fond of our country, janani janma-bhūmiś ca svargād api gariyasi, but the country is so ungrateful. Suppose There are many vivid examples. Mahatma Gandhi, he worked so much for his country. The result was that he was killed by his countrymen. So, just see the example. So, in this material life, you will never be able to make anyone happy by your activities. That is not possible. Neither you will be happy.

*Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. That is the intelligent, that I have served the so*-called society, friendship and love just to serve my own lusty desires, that's all. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās. Everyone is serving the so-called societies, and for his own satisfaction, sense gratification. Nobody wants to serve anyone. He wants to serve himself. That is the position, real position. So in this way, if we spoil, spoil our life We are serving, but serving our senses, lusty desires. We have to change this mood of service to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to serve. We cannot become master. That is not possible. As soon as you become master, you will be kicked. But that is also false position. We cannot become master, we are servant, but instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, we are serving māyā. That is our position. So we have to change this position. We, instead of serving māyā, we have to transfer our service to Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. Thank you very much. [break]

*That is explained in Bhagavad*-gītā, bhakto 'si priyo 'si [Bg. 4.3], "You are my dear friend, and friend, at the same time devotee." So rahasyam etad uttamam. Bhagavad-gītā is a mystery, rahasyam, and uttamam, transcendental. So without becoming a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can understand Bhagavad-gītā. The karmī, jñāni, yogi, they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa would have instructed Bhagavad-gītā to many karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. They are present, but He knows it well, these karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore He said to His devotee and friend, bhakto 'si, priyo 'si. So in order to understand Bhagavad-gītā, one has to come to this position to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. It is a business between Bhagavān and bhakta. Just like, if you go to the market place, if some merchant is talking with some broker or somebody about business, he is talking about that business, that is concluded. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Bhagavān, and it is heard by the bhakta. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā there is no other business than bhakti. There is no other business. Karma, jñāna, yoga. They are described, but with the aim to culminate in bhakti. Just like karma. Kṛṣṇa said, yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27], "Give it to Me." This is bhakti. So far jñānīs are concerned, Kṛṣṇa concludes bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Jñānīs, after many, many births, cultivation of knowledge, when he actually begins to become a bhakta, then his perfection is there.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



This is for the jñānīs, and for the karmīs, yat karoṣi. Yat karoṣi, "Whatever you do, the result you give it to me." That means, bhakti miśra karma, jñāna miśra bhakti. And for the yogis, he says,



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*The first class yogi is, who is always thinking of Me. He is first*-class. Yogi's business is to see God within the heart. That is real yogi. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino. Yogi's business is to see in meditation always Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu within the heart. That is real yogi. Dhyānāvasthita, by meditation one has to see continually. That is called samādhi.



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He is first*-class yogi. So everything is there ending in bhakti. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, the only talk is about bhakti, in a different way, either through karma-yoga, or jñāna-yoga, or haṭha-yoga. The point is how to become a devotee, and at the end He concludes, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the conclusion of, so these things cannot be understood by anyone who is not a devotee. Without being devotee, you cannot understand. Therefore there are so many, the politicians, the scholars, they are commenting Bhagavad-gītā in so many ways, but they are misled. Because they are not devotee of Kṛṣṇa. They cannot poke their nose in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is not possible. So Arjuna was bhakta, therefore Bhagavad-gītā was spoken to him. Not to a yogi, not to a karmī, not to a jñānī. This is the answer.



*Acyutānanda: (reads questions put by audience) Kṛṣṇa says in the end of the Gītā, sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], but in another place in the Gītā, twice it is mentioned śreyān sva-dharmo, para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ, one should perform his own duty rather than another's duty.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Acyutānanda: How can we...



*Prabhupāda: I may say many things to you, but when I say something directly, "Do it," your first duty is to do that. You cannot argue, "Sir, you said me like this before." No, that is not your duty. What I say now, you do it. That is obedience. You cannot argue. Of course, Kṛṣṇa never said anything contradictory, but if when one thinks foolishly that Kṛṣṇa said something contradictory, no, that is not to be. You could not understand. So even though you could not understand, you take My direct orders now. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām e... [Bg. 18.66], that is your business. The master says like that, and the servant's business is to accept it as it is, without any argument. That's all right.



Acyutānanda: Are not all the poor, and miserable, and the weak, God? Why not worship the living God first?



Prabhupāda: Who is living God? Who is living God? That he has not mentioned.



Devotee: The poor.



*Prabhupāda: Poor is God? Then why rich is not God? If you have so broad vision, that you see God everywhere, so why you make distinction between poor God and rich God? Why you make distinction? If poor is God, the rich is also God. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. If you have got so broader vision, then why you distinguish between poor and rich. A paṇḍita, a learned scholar,



*vidyā*-vinaya sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Sama*-darśī means he has no distinction. Why you should make distinction between poor and rich? That is sama-darśī. As soon as you make distinction, then your vision is imperfect. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, samata [Bg. 18.54]. Not that I distinguish between this particular class to another particular. That is not brahma-darśana, neither it is sama-darśana.



Acyutānanda: You said that Lord Kṛṣṇa has many opulences, but in Chapter Thirteen verse fifteen he says that He is nirguṇa. How to reconcile this statement?



*Prabhupāda: What did, does He mean by nirguṇa? That let him explain first of all. What is nirguṇa? What does he mean by nirguṇa? Nirguṇaṁ guṇa*-bhoktṛ ca. He is, Kṛṣṇa is described, nirguṇaṁ guṇa-bhoktṛ ca. He is nirguṇa, at the same time enjoyer of guṇas. What is that enjoyer of guṇa and nirguṇa? Can you explain? Nirguṇa means one who does not live under the condition of material guṇas, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Transcendental. That is called nirguṇa. But nirguṇa does not mean that He has no transcendental qualities. Just like Kṛṣṇa is bhakta-vatsala. That is His guṇa, but that is not material guṇa. That is spiritual guṇa. Kṛṣṇa is nirguṇa means, He is not controlled by the material qualities, but He has got innumerable spiritual qualities. That is called guṇavati. So unless we understand the distinction between matter and spirit, we cannot understand what is the meaning of nirguṇa. That is not possible.



Acyutānanda: In India, there are many swamis who claim to be Kṛṣṇa. How to detect them?



Prabhupāda: Hm? Many swamis?



Devotee: Claim to be Kṛṣṇa. How to detect them.



Prabhupāda: Let them prove that he is Kṛṣṇa. If you are foolish, then they will accept. If you are intelligent, then you'll ask him, first of all lift the Govardhana Hill, then you become Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you are rascal, I kick you on your face. (laughter) This is our version. We do not accept these rascals as Kṛṣṇa. We want to test, first of all, that you are Kṛṣṇa. Why should we accept a rascal as Kṛṣṇa unless he proves himself that he is Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa lifted Govardhana Hill when He was seven years old. What he has done that we shall accept him Kṛṣṇa? Don't be foolish. First of all let him prove that he's Kṛṣṇa. Test him. Then accept.



Acyutānanda: Why at the time of death, the name of God does not come to (indistinct)?



*Prabhupāda: Because you are not practiced. You practice to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, at the time of death it will come. Abhyāsa*-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā [Bg. 8.8]. That is advised. You practice it and you'll remember. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. If you practice twenty-four hours, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, then at the time you'll chant Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. So we have to practice. That is natural. If you always think of something, at the time of death you will think like that. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ nama... Therefore Kṛṣṇa adv..., mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. You simply add up these four principles, always think of Me, you become My devotee, and offer obeisances unto Me, man-manā bhava mad, mad-yājī, worship Me. You do these four things then mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65], without any doubt you are coming to Me. So why don't you do this? Four things, very easy things. Is it very difficult to constantly remember Kṛṣṇa? You can do it. You are remembering something. A mind is occupied always with something. Just practice to occupy the mind with Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Where is the difficulty? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namas... Everything is there. You practice it. Don't (indistinct). Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was a great emperor of this world, but his mind was fixed up on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padaravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. When you talk, you will talk about Kṛṣṇa only. You practice. You always see, you see Kṛṣṇa's picture, Kṛṣṇa's Deity. You hear Kṛṣṇa's topics, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In, in this way engage all your senses. Your seeing power, your hearing power, your talking power, your eating power, your sleeping power. Everything, if you make Kṛṣṇa conscious, then generally or automatically, you'll remember at the time of death Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remember Kṛṣṇa, ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6], then your life is perfect. There is no difficulty. Simply you have to practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā [Bg. 8.8]. Don't allow your mind to go astray, then everything is all right. Hm.



Acyutānanda: When you said that everyone is destined to a particular goal, then where is the question of preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: Therefore I said tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta ko... You should try only for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, other things are destined. That is my, you did not hear properly, that you should not try for anything else, because that is already destined. If you want success, then simply try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. We did not try in our other life. Other than human life, we did not try it. We simply tried for eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. Animal life. If you do the same thing again, and do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are losing your time. Therefore it is advised, you should try only for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for other things. They are already destined. This is the instruction.



Acyutānanda: What would be the result if all the people became devotees of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu?



*Prabhupāda: Very good result. He is lamenting, that He doesn't want this good result that everyone will become Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Eh? There is a story in this connection, that there was a haṭṭa, a fair or market. So many people came there, and one old lady began to cry. "Where shall I give them place? So many people have come here." She began to cry. Then her son said, "My mother, see in the evening. You don't worry about giving them place." So in the evening she saw everyone has gone. Similarly, in due course of nature's activities, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], everything will go nicely. You haven't got to be worried. You better be worried how to develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other things will go on. And what is the harm there? If all people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and go back to home, back to Godhead, what is the harm there? Do you mean to say, to remain here in this material existence and suffer three*-fold miseries, is that very good business? That will not happen. Don't be worried. Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is not so cheap. Only a few fortunate people will take it. Others will remain. Don't worry. (laughter)



Acyutānanda: How is that there are different types of religion in the world?



*Prabhupāda: There is no religion. This is manufactured religion. Real religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], therefore it is advised that you give up all these so-called religions, sarva-dharmān. You become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. That is real religion. All others, cheating religion, that's all. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like there may be so many laws, but the real law is what is given by the government. Similarly, there may be so many so-called religious system, but the real religious system is what is spoken by God Himself. That is real.



Acyutānanda: Do you think Kṛṣṇa consciousness will last forever? Some people accuse that you are hippies.



Prabhupāda: Some people says, "You are hippie." So you take that. What can be done? These are all nonsense questions. Any other question?



*Acyutānanda: Even after repeated chanting of Kṛṣṇa*-nāma, I could not get solace due to family worry. May I leave the family to bear faith and devote myself to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotee: He wants to know if he should leave his family and become a devotee, because...



*Prabhupāda: No, we never said that. Just now we explained. ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā, you keep your intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether you are in family or without family. It doesn't matter. Just like I have given already example. Arjuna, he is a family man, he is not a sannyāsī. Not only family man, a military man, and politician, but he was prepared to sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. If you do not become a family man, so what is the gain there? Or if you remain a sannyāsī, if you have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just like you said, "So many swamis they want to become Kṛṣṇa instead of becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa." So this kind of sannyāsī is also useless. Similarly, gṛhastha, if he's simply attached to family, that is also useless. Any condition of life, if you remain fixed-up with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is your perfection of life. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Anyone who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious and fixed-up in devotional service, knowing fully well what is Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. It doesn't matter whether he is a sannyāsī, or gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, and śūdra. It doesn't matter. Is that all right? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)





761025SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.3

-

Vṛndāvana, October 25, 197



Pradyumna: "Translation: Those who are interested in reviving Kṛṣṇa consciousness and increasing their love of Godhead do not like to do anything that is not related to Kṛṣṇa. They are not interested in mingling with people who are busy maintaining their bodies, eating, sleeping mating and defending. They are not attached to their homes, although they may be householders. Nor are they attached to wives, children, friends or wealth. At the same time, they are not indifferent to the execution of their duties. Such people are interested in collecting only enough money to keep the body and soul together."



Prabhupāda:



*ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā

*janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu

*gṛheṣu jāyātmaja*-rātimatsu

*na prīti*-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke

[SB 5.5.3]



*So the recommendation is that if you want to go back home, back to Godhead, divyam, so you have to practice austerities, penance. That austerity and penance is according to the age, deśa, kāla, patra. Not that... Just like in the common law also, if a grown*-up man commits some theft, he is punished more. And if a child or a boy commits theft, he is not so much punished. So there is consideration of deśa kāla patra. In the Kali-yuga people cannot undergo very severe austerities. That is impossible for them, because mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. They are already very much suppressed and suffering because they are all unfortunate, manda-bhāgyā. Mostly people, they have no provision for eating either today or tomorrow. Manda-bhāgyā. There is no sufficient grains. Formerly even in the villages you would see that a common man has very good stock of foodgrains and cows, dhanvena dhanavan, gavaya dhanavan. Formerly the standard of richness was considered how many morai, the bank, what is called? Where grain is stocked? Silo. So in India it is called morai, grain stock. And how many cows one has got in stock. Then he is rich man. Nowadays how much paper money he has got. Actually it has no value. Suppose you have got some papers. Each paper it is written there "one thousand dollars." But if there is no grain, what will this one-thousand-dollars paper will do? It actually so happened in the last war in Germany. Their money was thrown in the street. Nobody cared to take it, because it has no exchange. So long the paper money you can exchange, there is value. Otherwise it is paper only. But if you have got actual commodity-grains and cows-then you can eat in any circumstances. Never mind war is going on; you don't care. You get sufficient food. What you will do with the paper money? So this paper currency is useless. If the things are going on nicely it has value, but in times of crisis it has no value.



*So here it is description is given that we are recommended to make association with mahat*-sevā just to get liberation. Mahat-sevā. And who is mahātmā? That is being described. In the first... Mahāntas te. They are mahātmā. What is the symptom? In the śāstra we'll find not by one symptom, that one has got saffron cloth or big beard, then he is mahātmā. No. There are other symptoms. Just like brāhmaṇa. In the Kali-yuga brāhmaṇa means one two-paisa thread, that's all. But that is not brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means śamo damo titikṣva. These are the symptoms. Similarly, mahātmā does not mean a dress. But people have taken advantage of this dress, veśopajivibhiḥ (?). In India still, although poverty-stricken, if a person, simply by dressing in saffron cloth goes to a village, he has no problem. Everyone will call him, invite him, give him shelter, give him food. Still, (Hindi: "Sir, come here. Take prasada.") Everyone will ask. Poor people have taken advantage of it. Without any education, without any..., they take it for solving economic problems. Here also in Vṛndāvana you'll find so many people have come here because there are many chatras. You can get free capati, dahl. You'll find in the morning so many wretched class. They have come to Vṛndāvana just for this bread and dahl. And they collect and they exchange. They purchase bidi.

*So everything, in Kali*-yuga, everything is being misused. But śāstra has given us direction who is brāhmaṇa, who is mahātmā. So here one type of mahātmā is given: mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ. They are equal. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. That is mahātmā. He has realized, Brahman realized, so he has no discrimination, either man to man or man to animal. Even a...

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gave hastini

śuni caiva śvapāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Paṇḍita does not mean one who has got degree. Paṇḍita means sama*-cittāḥ. That is sama-cittāḥ. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has also said that,



*mātṛ*-vat para-dāreṣu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭra-vat

*ātma*-vat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



*He is paṇḍita. Otherwise a rascal. Mātṛ*-vat para-dāreṣu. As soon as you see one woman except your married wife, you immediately address her "mother." This is paṇḍita. This is paṇḍita. Not that talking phish-phish with other's woman. He's a rascal. So mātṛ-vat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭra-vat: not to touch other's property. Garbage nobody touches. But people are so unfortunate. I have seen in Hong Kong, they are picking out some food frome the garbage like dogs. I have seen. Somebody throws away some foodstuff and that is collecting. People are so unfortunate. So garbage nobody touches. But in Kali-yuga one has to pick out some papers, some pieces of cloth, to make some business in the garbage. Garbage is untouchable, but in the Kali-yuga the people are so unfortunate that they pick out from garbage also something valuable.



*So anyway, mahāntas, these are the symptoms. Sama*-cittāḥ: they have no such thing, "Oh, here is Hindu, here is Muslim, here is rich man, here is poor man." No. He's kind to everyone. That is godly qualification. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Sama-cittāḥ. This is explanation. Anyone who takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, he is te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. He's eligible to go back home, back to Godhead. So Kṛṣṇa gives this liberty, open to everyone. Now who will act it? Who will induce people, even though he's born in low-grade family... Māṁ hi pārtha..., ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yoni. Pāpa-yoni means one who is born in pāpa-yoni, in low-grade family. They say caṇḍāla yavana mleccha in the, there... But Kṛṣṇa is giving liberty to everyone. Ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Ye 'nye ca pāpa, Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. Then who will do it? You are a big sādhu, very learned sādhu, and if you sit down, "No, no. I shall not go out of India. As soon as I cross the sea, immediately I'll become fallen." Then who will do this business? Kṛṣṇa wants that te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Then who will deliver these pāpa-yoni? If "I am a big sannyāsī and big devotee, I do not go out side Vṛndāvana, I do not go outside India. I am jagat-guru..." "Have you seen jagat?" "No. I'm self-made jagat-guru." This is going on. Cheating. This cheating is going on. What is mahātmā they do not know; still, they are posing themselves mahātmā. Mahātmāji he (Hindi).

*So they are not mahātmā. Mahat, the first qualification is sama*-cittāḥ. Everyone must be delivered. Not "I am... I am undergoing severe austerities. I shall become brahmalina and my business is finished." No. Others should be. That is sama-cittāḥ. Others. Just as Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I do not wish to go alone to Vaikuṇṭha unless I take all these rascals with me." That is Vaiṣṇava. Māya sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. "These vimūḍhān who are so much entangled in this material world and trying to adjust things for peace and happiness, unnecessarily they do not know. So I want to take them." That is Vaiṣṇava. "Alone I don't want to go." Just like Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni is traveling all over the universe. He's going to hell, heaven, everywhere, and trying to make disciples who can become Kṛṣṇa's devotee. He does not stay anywhere for more than three minutes, like that. He's traveling always. This is sama-cittāḥ: always going everywhere: "You become devotee, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious so that your life will be successful." Preaching, that is wanted. Sama-cittāḥ. As soon as there is some facility, one should approach the fallen souls. People are suffering. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā [SB 1.1.10]. They are so unfortunate, they are suffering in this material world. Give them the information at least that "Why you are suffering? You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy." That is wanted. That is sama-cittāḥ.

*Prasannātmā. Praśāntā. Prakistho rūpeṇa santaḥ. Preaching is not very, I mean to say, pleasant. They have to meet so many difficulties. Still they are peaceful, not disturbed. Praśāntā. Not that... Just like Nityānanda Prabhu went to preach amongst Jagāi*-Mādhāi. And Jagāi-Mādhāi injured. "Why, You rascal, You have come here to disturb us?" And threw the piece of earthen pot, and Nityānanda Prabhu was injured. Still praśāntā. This is sādhu. Yes. "My dear Jagāi-Mādhāi, you have injured Me. It doesn't matter. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa please." This is praśāntā. He's not disturbed: "Oh, you have injured Me. I shall go to the police." No. Peaceful. "All right, never mind. You do not know how to behave; *you have injured Me. It doesn't matter. Please chant." When Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu heard it, He immediately came, and He was so angry, that "I shall kill these two men immediately. Bring My cakra." Nityānanda Prabhu said, "My Lord, You have promised not to take weapon in this incarnation, so kindly be merciful upon them." "No! They have insulted Vaiṣṇava!" This is another example. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching this humbleness: tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. But when Nityānanda Prabhu was injured, did He stop punishing them? No. At that time He became fire: "I shall kill them!" Tṛṇād api sunīcena does not mean that if a Vaiṣṇava is insulted or Viṣṇu is defamed, you remain silent, "I am tṛṇād api sunīcena." No. At that time you should become fire. That is the teaching of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Just like Hanumānjī, he's Vaiṣṇava. But when there was need for the service of Lord Rāmacandra, he set fire in the Lanka. So when there is viṣṇu*-vaiṣṇava-ninda, defamation, you should not remain tṛṇād api sunīcena. You should take steps. This is the instruction. Anyway, Vaiṣṇava is never angry, but that does not mean that you tolerate insult to Viṣṇu and Vaiṣṇava. No.

*So praśāntā. Praśāntā vimanyavaḥ. Without any anger. Vimanyavaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ. These are the examples. Just see. Suhṛdaḥ. Su*-hṛda means one who is actually wanting your welfare. That is called suhṛt. Just like father, mother. In spite of so many faults on the part of the son, still they are willing always, "How my sons will be happy." These are the examples of suhṛdaḥ. He's not ordinary friend. Ordinary friend, that is reciprocation: "If you do me, then I shall do to you. Otherwise not." But suhṛdaḥ means the other side does not do anything benefit, but one side is always willing. That is called suhṛdaḥ. Similarly, a mahātmā, he is not well received. He is criticized, insulted, sometimes injured. Still, he wants Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was so badly treated and still he was thinking, "Father, they do not know what they are doing. Please excuse." This is suhṛdaḥ. He is praying to God This is sādhu, mahātmā. Suhṛdaḥ praśāntā. Not that... In India there are examples like Haridasa Ṭhākura, Prahlāda Mahārāja. And the Western countries also, Lord Jesus Christ, he is śaktyāveśa-avatāra, God's son. And he tolerated so much. These are the examples of mahātmā. Don't misunderstand that we are preaching that mahātmās are only in India. No. By the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead there are mahātmās even amongst the birds, even amongst the beasts, even amongst the lower than animals. Because this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on in different places, in different circumstances. That is God's desire. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. So Kṛṣṇa wants this. Just like in your country there is welfare activities by the government. The welfare department is seeing that nobody is unhappy for want of money. Similarly, mahātmās, they are also in the welfare department of Kṛṣṇa. They are sent to different countries, different places, different species of life, so that the living entity may take advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ. Sādhu. Generally sādhu means devotee. Otherwise not sādhu. Sādhavaḥ sādhu*-bhūṣaṇāḥ. There is a description of sādhu also. That is suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām ajāta-śatru sādhava sadhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikām. These are the symptoms of sādhu. Very tolerant and kind, titikṣava-kāruṇikā. And suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām: and he's friend of all living entities, not that daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā and cow-nārāyaṇa killing. If you have got such vision that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why should you distinguish daridra-nārāyaṇa, dhani-nārāyaṇa, cow-nārāyaṇa, goat-nārāyaṇa? It is not that for the humankind Just like it is going on, nationality. What is this nonsense "nationality"? "Nationality" means one who is born in that country. This is the general definition. So why you are giving protection to the human being and killing the cows and goats? They are not national? This means short-sighted. Because they haven't got Kṛṣṇa consciousness they are always crippled. They do not know what is the meaning of nationalism, but they are pushing on nationalism. Rascalism.

*Here is nationalism, that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: [Īśo mantra 1] everything belongs to God. And Kṛṣṇa says bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He's the proprietor. He's the proprietor; *everyone is His subject. Everyone requires protection. That is nationalism. Not that crippled ideas: "I am good, my brother is good, and everyone is bad." That is not nationalism. This is going on. My nation, a few people Russia is thinking, "A few people in this area, they are our men." And America is thinking like that. India is thinking like that. But what is this nonsense nationalism? Because it is not perfect. Simply taking care of some human being. Otherwise there is no question of nationalism. Even according to their definition of nationalism, there are so many discriminations. Nowadays in your country, now the white and the black have been given the equal rights. But formerly, although the blacks were born, they were treated like animals. But one of your president has given them the right. But there are so many defects. Unless you become mahātmā. So unless you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this so-called nationalism, philanthropism, altruism, this "ism"*-that is all rascaldom. It has no value. Real value is here. Mahātmā vimanyavaḥ sādhavaḥ suhṛdaḥ.

*So these mahātmās, tyāgīs. Generally, they are sannyāsīs. And so far other mahātmās also, it does not mean only the sannyāsī can be mahātmā. No. Gṛhasthas also can be mahātmā. How gṛhasthas can be mahātmās, that is explained in the next verse: ye vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā. His only business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is... Otherwise, here it is said, jāyātmaja-rātimatsu gṛheṣu. He has no interest in so-called family life, wife, children, friends, and nationality. No. Ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā. Only interest is how to please Kṛṣṇa. Such person, he is also mahātmā. Not that only the mahātmās who are renounced order. There are gṛhasthas also. Just like Advaita Ācārya, He was gṛhastha. He became very, very sorry that people are so much suffering. "It is not in My power to elevate them. Unless Kṛṣṇa personally comes, it is not possible." Therefore He offered to Lord Viṣṇu Gaṅgā-jāl, tulasī, praying, "Please come. People are very much suffering. So if You come..." And on His request Kṛṣṇa came in the form of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So it is not that a gṛhastha cannot be mahātmā. There are many mahātmās.

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



*All gaura*-bhakta-vṛndas, they were gṛhasthas. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also gṛhastha. But their only business was to satisfy Kṛṣṇa: ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā janeṣu dehambhara-vārtikeṣu gṛheṣu jāyātmaja-rātimatsu na prīti. And the ordinary gṛhasthas, they are called gṛhamedhi, they are simply interested with family life, not for the people in general. So a gṛhastha can be a mahātmā also if he is broad-minded, how to do benefit to the mass of people by introducing Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Thank you very much. (end)



770329SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.3-4

-

Bombay, March 29, 1977



Acyutānanda:



*ya vā mayīśe kṛta*-sauhṛdārthā

*janeṣu dehambhara*-vārtikeṣu

*gṛheṣu jāyātmaja*-rātimatsu

*na prīti*-yuktā yāvad-arthāś ca loke

[SB 5.5.3]



"Those who are interested in reviving Kṛṣṇa consciousness and increasing their love of Godhead do not like to do anything that is not related to Kṛṣṇa. They are not interested in mingling with people who are busy maintaining their bodies, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. They are not attached to their homes, although they may be householders. Nor are they attached to wives, children, friends or wealth. At the same time, they are not indifferent to the execution of their duties. Such people are interested in collecting only enough money to keep body and soul together." (reads purport)



nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think it not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." (reads purport)



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

(asann api) kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



*The real problem of life is not to adjust things materially, change from one form of government to another form of government. These things are temporary things. It will not give relief. And this fighting between one party with another amongst the politicians or the kṣatriyas or the administrators, they are going on perpetually. That is not a very new thing. So we should not forget our real life. For ruling over to get political predominance, there may be fighting. That is natural. It is going on. Just like the Battle of Kurukṣetra*-it is a fighting between two sections of the same family, who will rule over. So there was fighting, but at the same time, they did not lose Kṛṣṇa culture. That is the important point. Similarly, India has got a great culture, background, Vedic culture or Kṛṣṇa culture. Vedic culture means Kṛṣṇa culture, and Kṛṣṇa culture means Vedic culture. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. So study Veda or Vedānta means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the purpose. Vedaiś ca sarvair. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. Vedānta. Vyāsadeva, Śrīla Vyāsadeva, he has given us the Vedānta philosophy. What is the purpose? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:



*sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi*-sanniviṣṭo

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ

*vedānta*-vid vedānta-kṛt (eva) ca aham

[Bg. 15.15]



*So we should take care of very seriously about this culture of Bhagavad*-gītā. This is India's property. This Vedic culture, instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, was spoken on the land of Bhārata-varṣa, although it is not meant for a particular class of men or a class of people or in a particular country. It is meant for everyone. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Especially for the human being. So our request is that we may fight amongst ourself for political predominance, but why should we forget our real culture, Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness? That is our request. All important men, leaders of the society, they should take this Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and not only preach in their own country, but all over the world. If you don't take it, there is a great risk. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:



aśradaddhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

māṁ aprāpya eva nivartante

*mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani

[Bg. 9.3]



Kṛṣṇa says personally... He comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7], for the benefit of the human society. Because dharmasya glānir. Dharma is meant for the human society. Dharma is not meant for the cats and dogs. They have no dharma. You cannot have any religious principle or institution in the cat society or dog society. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānam. Therefore when human society becomes devoid of dharma, then it is animal society. It is no longer human society.



*And what is that dharma? I have several times spoken. Dharmaṁ tu sāksād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the law or the words given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is dharma. That is the shortcut definition of dharma. "You should do this; *you should not do this." Just like the government gives us law, "Keep to the right." So that is law. Although it is very simple thing, "Keep to the right," but that is law. Similarly what Kṛṣṇa says... Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If we take it for proper utilization of our this great boon of life, human form of life, then we become dharmī, and our life is successful. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is not at all difficult. Even a child can perform. What Kṛṣṇa said? Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says, "Always think of Me." What is the difficulty? Even a child can think of Kṛṣṇa. If he goes to the temple and if he understands from his parents that "Here is the Deity, Kṛṣṇa," it impresses. He understands, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." Because he is simple. So he can also think of Kṛṣṇa: "I went to the temple, I saw Kṛṣṇa very nicely dressed, very nicely decorated. Very nice foodstuff was offered, and I got the prasādam." Where is the difficulty? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. If you go regularly to see Kṛṣṇa in the temple and to remember Him, then you become a bhakta. It doesn't require that you have to pass M.A. examination to become a knowledge... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, your all Vedic knowledge is perfect. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada-pañcarātra]. If you have understood Hari, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, tapasā tataḥ kim, then where is the necessity of tapasya? You have achieved the result of tapasya.

Because to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*To understand Kṛṣṇa he requires great tapasya. There is no doubt about it. But if some way or other you have understood Kṛṣṇa, then ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. There is no more need of tapasya. Your ultimate goal of life is already achieved. And nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And you have performed great austerities, penances, but you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa-then it is useless waste of time. Nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. What is the value of your tapasya? Real thing you do not understand. So ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, antar bahir yadi haris tataḥ kim. If you have learned these four principles as instructed by Bhagavān, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru... [Bg. 18.65]. Very simple thing. Antar bahir, within and without, if you have learned to think of Kṛṣṇa, antar bahir yadi haris tapasā, then where is the use of tapasya? It is already achieved. Because you are thinking always, externally and internally, Kṛṣṇa. And nārādhito yadi haris. Antar bahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. If you have not learned the art of thinking Kṛṣṇa externally and internally, then what is the use of your so-called tapasya?



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very easy. If it cannot be introduced, I mean to say, in large scale, collectively, individually anyone can learn and take the Vedic wisdom. Anyone, even a child. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakta. And what is the result? The result is mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. Anyone who is doing this, asaṁśaya, "Without any doubt, you are coming to Me." That is the aim of life, how to go back to hom, back to Godhead. Not to join here in the dog's race. That is not aim of life. It will not make me happy, anyone happy.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



The nature's law is working very stringently. You cannot avoid it.



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*So these things are there. I can quote many verses like that. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very easy, and everyone should become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. We are trying to adjust things externally, but that will never be fulfilled. Durāśayā. This is hope against hope. You cannot do anything independently because you are fully under the clutches of māyā. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa says, "My dear Arjuna, Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is situated in the core of everyone's heart." He is not far away. And He is observing. In the Upaniṣads it is said that there are two birds on one tree. One is eating the fruit, and the other is witnessing. The witnessing bird is Kṛṣṇa, and the eating bird is the jīvātmā.



*So Kṛṣṇa is so friendly that He always lives with us just to turn our face towards Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. What is His business? He is simply waiting for the time when we shall turn our face to Kṛṣṇa. That is His business. But unfortunately, we do not want Kṛṣṇa. We want something which is not Kṛṣṇa. That is our disease. Still, Kṛṣṇa is giving us facility. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa gives intelligence, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15], that "You are My part and parcel. Why you are struggling so hard in this material world? Come to Me. I will give you all protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. He is ready. But I'll not do. That's my obstinacy. At that time what Kṛṣṇa will do? He is affectionate father. "All right, what do you want to do?" "I want to do like this." "All right." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. He immediately orders prakṛti... Mayādhyakṣena prakṛteḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. "This living entity wants a body like this. So give him a body like that." Yantra. That is called yantra. It is a machine. This body is the machine. And therefore we are changing, one body to another, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is our business.

*So if I am now in a yantra, Mercedes car, and suppose next life I ride on another yantra which is four*-legged dog, then what is the benefit of this kind of struggle for existence? But that is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa warns, aśraddhadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyasya parantapa mām aprāpya. "The aim of life was to achieve Me," Kṛṣṇa says, "but the result is, because he does not hear what I say," mām aprāpya nivartante, "again goes back," mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. This material world means to take birth and die. That is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Now I am born as Indian or as brāhmaṇa or something like that. The next life, there is no guarantee. Kṛṣṇa does not say that there is guarantee. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You have to change your body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13].

*So our request is that such a great science of, for the human society, for understanding the problems of life, how to solve it, how to achieve the greatest success in life... We have got this in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why should we neglect it? What is the reason? Other things may go on*-this political fight or some fight. Fighting. This is a world of fighting. Āgamāpāyino 'nityaḥ tams titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. This is world of śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. You cannot avoid it. So tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Just try to tolerate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says the same thing:

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api suhiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*We have to become tolerant than the grass on the street and forbearing more than the trees. In this way we have to tolerate whatever is going on in this material world. Tolerate does not mean unnecessarily we shall suffer. As far as possible, let us struggle, but we should not forget our real business. That is human life. Real business is that I am part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. Some way or other, I am fallen in this material condition. There is a Bengali poet, he has sung, anādi-karama-phale paḍi, bhavārṇava-jale, tarivāre na dheki upāya. "Somehow or other I am fallen in this material ocean and struggling for existence." Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore prayed... He does not pray for any material benefit. He is teaching us, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye: [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4] "My Lord, Jagadīśa, I do not want any material happiness or wealth," na dhanaṁ na janam, "or great followers," na sundarīṁ kavitām, "or beautiful wife." These are the demands of the karmīs: "I must have wealth, I must have position, I must have beautiful home, beautiful wife." But Caitanya Mahāprabhu denies. He says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. He does not want even mukti. Because He says next line that mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. "Life after life simply let Me remain Your devotee."



*ayi nanda*-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ

māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau

*kṛpayā tava pāda*-paṅkaja-

*sthita*-dhūlī-sadṛṣaṁ vicintaya

[Cc. Antya 20.32, Śikṣāṣṭaka 5]



*So we have got such vast knowledge for achieving the goal of life. It is India. Why should we neglect? Why we should become so foolish that forget our real purpose of life and engage in will-o'-the-wisp struggle for existence, which will never be successful? Why this misconception of life? At least, there must be this institution of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in India so that not only the Indians, but all outside India, they should come and learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (applause) So it is already explained. We are trying to develop this institution in Bombay. Bombay is the best city in India, and people are also very advanced, enlightened. So let us combine together and develop this institution for the whole human society. That is our ambition. It is not for any sect or any creed or any particular class of men. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu [Bg. 7.3]. It is for the human society, and we have got this opportunity of human body. A Bengali poet sings, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. "My Lord, I have wasted my this valuable life, human form of life, because I did not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



So if you do not take Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously in this human form of life, then you must know that you are drinking poison knowingly. Don't neglect it. Try to understand. It is based on science, philosophy, śāstra, knowledge. It is not a blind faith. And we are prepared to answer you in any way. The method is very simple; *even a child can take advantage of it. Not that we are manufacturing. It is sanctioned in the śāstra. Kaler doṣa*-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. This is the statement by Śukadeva Gosvāmī to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. He describes the faults of this Kali-yuga. It is just like the ocean. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann hy asti eka mahān... But there is one very great advantage. He said What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then you become free from all contamination and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much.

*Tamāla*-kṛṣṇa: Some people have questions. Do you want to answer them?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



*Tamāla*-kṛṣṇa: No need? Kīrtana?



Prabhupāda: They do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. Jaya.



Girirāja: We're inviting all of you to remain for... [break] (end)





761026SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.4

-

Vṛndāvana, October 26, 197



Pradyumna: "When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think it not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another."



Prabhupāda:



nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



*So it is recommended that mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes [SB 5.5.2]. Mahat-sevā, we have described the symptoms of mahātmā. The sum and substance of mahātmā is mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. That is mahātmā. Otherwise durātmā. Simply putting on a saffron dress and having a big beard, he's not mahātmā. Mahātmā is he who is cent percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim [Bg. 9.13]. He's not in the control of this material nature. He's completely under the direction of spiritual nature. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. And what is the sign? What is the difference between a person under material nature and spiritual nature? The difference is that one who is under spiritual nature, he is cent percent engaged in the service of the Lord. This is the sign.



mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

bhajanty ananya manaso...

[Bg. 9.13]



*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

[Bg. 9.30]



These things are there. So bhajana wanted. Bhajana means these nine kinds of activities:



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*This is bhajan, bhajana*-kriyā. Atho bhajana-kriyā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. So mahat-sevā means sādhu-saṅga. If you associate with devotees, that is called sādhu-saṅga, mahat. Each devotee is mahātmā. And the signs are given there: mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā [SB 5.5.2], we have already discussed. And another mahātmā is also ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā.



*The main business is how far one is devoted to Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. It doesn't mean that one has to become a sannyāsī or one has to remain a gṛhastha. There are four āśramas. You should accept whichever is suitable for you, but the business is how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That's If you find that remaining as a gṛhastha, you can serve more Kṛṣṇa, that's all right. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has accepted this. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. Sthāne, sthāne means everyone has got some position. So it doesn't require that you have to change your position. But the real business is you have to see how far you are making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

kibā vipra, kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*He never says that only the sannyāsīs should be guru: kṛṣṇa bhajanete nāhi yāti*-ulādi-vicāra; or becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no such distinction of caste, creed, position. No.



yei bhaje sei baḍo abhakta hi cāra

*kṛṣṇa*-bhajanete nāhi yāti-kulādi-vicāra



Anyone who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is great. Sei baḍo. Āra saba car. And others, they are all rotten. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's division. Simply we have to see how one is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*The same thing as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is either duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyā*-pahṛta-jñānā, āsuriṁ bhāvam āśrita. This is the test. Take this simple test. Just like test tube. A chemical analyzer examines chemicals in the test tube, a small nozzle, and he tests what it is. You can also test. Just like a big pot of rice boiling, you can test. Take one grain of the rice and press it. If it is properly boiled, then you can understand the whole thing is boiled. Similarly, there are, everything a test tube. So for us, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, there is a test tube. What is that test tube? If one does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he should be rejected immediately. It is not sectarian. It is test tube. Kṛṣṇa says that if you do not find anyone fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then he must belong to these groups. What is that? Duṣkṛtina, simply sinful. That's all. Always engaged Because nobody can become Kṛṣṇa conscious cent percent unless he's free from sinful life. Kṛṣṇa said,



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



This is the test: if one has taken to Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is my only worshipable Deity..."



*Caitanya*-caritāmṛta-kaj says,

*'śraddhā' śabde*-visvasa sudṛḍha niścaya

*kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya



This is śraddhā. Ādau śraddhā. Beginning of spiritual life is śraddhā. Just like you have come here. It is based on śraddhā, a little faith. Otherwise, there are millions of people, why they are not coming? There is no śraddhā. But anyone who comes, it means there is ādau śraddhā. This śraddhā has been Śraddadhānāḥ. Kṛṣṇa said. So what is that verse? Aśraddadhānāḥ. Śraddhā, and the opposite word is aśraddhā. So what Kṛṣṇa said, if one has no faith, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa [Bg. 9.3]. What Kṛṣṇa said... Kṛṣṇa personally comes to enlighten us, that "This is your life. You should do like this. You should live like this. You should act like this. Why you are rotting in this material world?"



*So the same thing is repeated in different way in different places. Here also it is said, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. These rascals have become so mad, pramattaḥ. Prakṛṣṭha rūpena mattaḥ. Mattaḥ means mad, intoxicated. And one, another, pra. Pra means prakiṣṭha, sufficiently mad. So these materialistic persons, you will see everywhere. They're running here and there. Especially in the Western countries, from the early morning, from five o'clock or still earlier, the whole street is full of motorcars. They are going to their work. Those who have gone to foreign countries, you have seen. In every big, big city of the Western countries they are always busy. They work. Now we are also imitating them. Our leaders are advertising, "Work hard. Work hard. That you are pulling on rickshaw, that is not sufficient. Still you have to work hard. You are pulling on thela? That is not sufficient. You have to still..." "What I can do more?" This is going on. This is material civilization, Mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And what for they're doing? Yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti. The aim is how to satisfy senses. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. That's all. I get money, go to the restaurant, go to the liquor house, go to the prostitute house, and nightclub, and so on, so on, so on. Because they have no other business. They do not know anything more than that. Indriya-prītaya. A little sense gratification.

*So they are all mad. So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And they are implicating so many sinful activities. Legally and virtually, they are becoming implicated. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra lokāyaṁ karma*-bandhanaḥ. If you don't act only for yajña, then you become implicated. The evidence is, the proof is I am implicated that there are different varieties of life. You should know that "Why there are so many varieties of life." That is explained here. The varieties of life is na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. Here, and anyone who has got this material body Material body means kleśada, different degrees of kleśada. Somebody is millionaire-but don't think that his body is not kleśada. His body is also kleśada, giving some pain. Nobody is free from kleśa. There was a very big rich man in Calcutta. So he could not eat. His appetite, there was no appetite. So he's rich man. So he was given sufficient foodstuff, and simply show, he could not eat. But a big rich man. And one poor man was passing on the street, taking a fish and chanting very Not chanting; singing very jubilantly. So this gentleman saw. He said that "I have become so rich man, but I have no appetite inspite of so many nice foodstuff before me. And that poor man is carrying one fish. He's thinking that he'll go and cook it and eat it very nicely. He is so jubilant. So if I would have become a poor man like him I could have enjoyed some food." He was wishing that. Because real business is sense gratification. So in spite of his becoming so rich he could not gratify his senses. But he was

*So this is the position. Everyone has got a certain type of body on account of different types of sense gratification. Otherwise why there are so many varieties? Why one is human being? Why one is a pig? Why one is a demigod? Why one is a tree? Why one is a fish? Why...? So many-8,400,000. This is all due to our desire for sense gratification. These varieties. Otherwise, one variety would have been there, existing. Why there are so many varieties? And that is not my creation. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, Paramātmā, is situated in everyone's heart. And we are always praying. Even we do not pray, we are... "If I would have been like this, if I would have got this opportunity, then I would have eaten like this, I would have done like this." This is going on continually. Continually. Indriya-prītaya apṛṇoti. We are simply desiring one after... And it is God's business, thankless business, that He is noting down, "All right, I will give you facility like this."

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



So His business is that "This rascal wants like this," and still He's so merciful, He asks māyā, the material nature, "Give him a body like this. He wants like this." So therefore we have got varieties. Because we have got varieties of desires we have got varieties of bodies. This is the explanation. Otherwise who will explain why there are so many varieties of bodies? The varieties of bodies means varieties of desire.



*So if you want to stop these varieties of body, then you should give up all these nonsense desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. You are jñānī, you are karmī, you are yogi, but your desires are all different. One yogi wants that "I shall fly in the sky." One yogi wants, "I shall walk on the water." One yogi thinks, "I shall create gold and show magic to the rascal people that I am God." This is going on. One jñānī, he is speaking something, one karmī... This is going on. Therefore there are varieties, varieties of desires. You have to stop these nonsense desires. That is wanted. Otherwise, you are implicated. You are implicated. So, therefore you can stop your desires only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise, they will go on. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. This is Dhruva Mahārāja said. He had desires, very, very great desires that "I shall have, I shall possess a kingdom greater than Brahmā, greater than my father." He was insulted by his stepmother. This is desire. This is We are Action and reaction. So he desired that "I shall have a great kingdom-greater kingdom than my father." He went to the forest and he underwent very severe austerities, a five-years-old boy. He saw, Kṛṣṇa came. So when He wanted to give him, fulfill his desires, he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "No, no, no, no. I have nothing to ask from You." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No more desires. Otherwise, karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ [SB 2.3.10]. Mokṣa-kāma, the jñānīs they want mokṣa, to merge into the existence of Brahman. The yogis, they want siddhis, some perfection, material perfection, to show some magic. And the karmīs, they want sense gratification. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that karmī jñānī yogi sakali aśānta. Aśānta, they cannot be at peace because they are desiring. So long you want, you desire, there will be no peace. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta [Cc. Madhya 19.149].

*So this is the recommendation, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute*-vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. They are mad after sense gratification and doing everything nonsense which is forbidden in the śāstra. You know, those who are too much after fulfilling desires, they even kill his own men. He'll kill his own child. Because the mother desiring that "I have become pregnant. It is botheration. It will check my sense gratification. Kill." Vikarma. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. He doesn't see that what will be the result of it. Vikarma. Karma, vikarma, akarma. Karma means prescribed duties, according... Just like law. "You keep to the right," this is law. And as soon as you keep to the wrong side, left, it is vikarma. This is karma and vikarma. But for sense-gratification we execute vikarma. So therefore we are implicating and we are preparing for the next life. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram: [Bg. 8.6] at the time of death these desires become prominent. Even without desire we get so many ideas and dream at night. So at the time of death, on account of our vikarma, we shall create a situation, and the next life we get a similar body. That's all. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam.

*I have got already one body which is kleśada. Everyone has got experience. No one is here who can say that "My body is very nice. There is no kleśa. There is no pains and pleasure. I am very perfect." That is not possible. As soon as you get a material body, it must be subjected to so many sufferings: adhyātmika, adhibautika, adhidaivika. Tribulations there must be. Material body means kleśada. Therefore the Vedic civilization is to stop getting this material body. That is Vedic civilization. Not that increase. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Two things are there. You must accept, you must get the service of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you go on in this way. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartamani. Aśraddadhānān puruṣā dharmasyasya parantapa māṁ aprāpya. If you don't get Kṛṣṇa, then there is no other way. There is no other alternative. The only alternative is mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. You get one body and again you die, again get another body. This will go on. Therefore we should not Na sādhu manye. Ṛṣabhadeva, boys, said, "This is not good." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4].

*So this culture, this education, is practically nil. Especially in Kali*-yuga, it is very regrettable. But the informations are there, the science is there. If one is intelligent, he can take advantage of this science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and mold his life accordingly so that he can stop this process of accepting a body which is kleśada. Kleśada. That is the perfection of life. And that can be simply done very easily if you simply study Kṛṣṇa, if you come in this temple and see Kṛṣṇa. Very simple method. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. These are not our manufacture; *Kṛṣṇa says. You come here. The temple is meant for this purpose: that you come, see Kṛṣṇa, and be attached to Kṛṣṇa. The more you become attached to Kṛṣṇa, that is called bhakti*-yoga.

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi...

[Bg. 7.1]



Then what will be the benefit? Suppose I understand you very perfectly. Then what will be the result? The result is,



janma karma ca divyam

me yo janati tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti

[Bg. 4.9]



Simply. If you simply know Kṛṣṇa, then this business, repetition of birth and death, will stop. It is so simple thing. So we should take advantage of it and utilize our human form of life perfectly.



Thank you very much. (end)



710903SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.5

-

London, September 3, 197



*Prabhupāda: Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jātaḥ.



Pradyumna:



*parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto

*yāvan na jijñāsata ātma*-tattvam

yāvat kriyās tāvad idaṁ mano vai

*karmātmakaṁ yena śarīra*-bandhaḥ

[SB 5.5.5]



*Prabhupāda: This great science is unknown to the modern civilization. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. What is the next?



Pradyumna: Yāvat kriyās tāvad...



Prabhupāda: Yāvat kriyās tāvad...



Pradyumna: Idaṁ mano vai.



Prabhupāda: Karmātmakam...



*Pradyumna: Yena śarīra*-bandhaḥ.



*Prabhupāda: Yena śarīra*-bandhaḥ. People are working very hard, day and night. Karmātmakam. Karmātmakam means that "I shall work and make profit and enjoy." That is called karmātmakam, fruitive activities. Everyone is working for some profit. So in this way, according to different karma, or according to different association. Everyone is engaged in different karma, or activities. Just like disease. Disease means different type of contamination. This is disease. Doctors, they have got different..., they have to treat different types of diseases by different types of medicine. Why? Because the patient has contaminated a different type of infection.



So actually, spirit soul has nothing to do for livelihood. They are working so hard. That is māyā. Because everyone is working for economic development, this is māyā. Just like the newspaper reporter asked me, "the crisis." They created a situation that ultimately it has come to a crisis. The big, big oil tankers are now standing without any work, and they're feeling scarcity. Actually, we haven't got to work for our livelihood. There are 8,400,000 species of living entities. Out of that, only 400,000 species of life are human form. Other 8,000,000, they are bird, beast, trees, insect, aquatics, so many varieties. So they have no economic problem. The bird, beast, aquatic, they have no economic problem. They have sufficient... Our material necessities are to eat, to sleep, to have sex life, and to have protection from danger. These are our problems. So living entities less intelligent than the human being, they have no problem of this field of activities. They are eating. They have no problem for eating. They have no problem for sleeping. They have no problem for sex life. And neither they have problem for any defense. That is already there. A bird, early in the morning, chirps very nicely. He has no problem. He will go anywhere and get some fruits and eat and sleeping accommodation is there on top of the tree. And the sex: the male bird, the female bird, they take birth simultaneously. And defense, they know how to defend themselves. They are in danger on the ground; they live on the top of the tree. So they know how to defend, how to enjoy sex life, how to eat, how to sleep. So there is no problem.

*Now, why human society has created this problem? If 8,000,000 living entities can have no problem, why the 400,000 group, the human society, they will have problem? That is māyā. Actually, there is no problem. They have created problem. By their advanced intelligence they have created problem. Why? Because (the) advanced intelligence is not being properly used. They are being used for these lower*-grade activities: eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they should have used the advanced intelligence for self-realization. But that, they are... There is no such education in the universities. That... I raised this question in the Massachusetts Technical Institution when I was asked to speak, that "Where is your technical department where a man after death can be alive again, injecting some...?" Just like motor stops, so a mechanical technologist go and makes the, I mean to say, machine correctly. Then it again runs. That I understand that there is technology. But when a man stops running, where is the technology to give him again the energy to go on? Because it is Massachusetts Institute of Technology, this technology must be there. So I asked the university, "Where is your that department?" The rascal could not answer. (laughter) Yes. And they appreciated, the students. Later on, they surrounded me and they appreciated: "Actually, where is that technology in the university?" That is called parābhava.

*This verse is there: parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jātaḥ. These rascals, they are born fools and rascals, and they are working in rascaldom. Therefore, whatever they are doing, it is defeat. Therefore this crisis has come. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. They are rascals and fools, and there is no proper education to understand "What I am? What is my necessity?" That education is wanting. These rascals are accepting this body, "I am this body." And they are working for the bodily necessities of life. So that is being done by the lower animals, working day and night hard for the necessities of the body. That verse is here. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. These rascals do not inquire also that "I am working so hard for this body, but this body cannot be protected. And when the body is dead, nobody can help." They are technologists. When the motor stops, they can again run on by supplying something which is wanting. Why not this technology?

That means they do not know what is the need of the body. When the body dies they cry simply like child, "My father has gone." Why your father has gone? It is lying there. Where he has gone? It is lying on the floor or on the bed. "No, my father has gone." He has not seen his father; *he has seen the body. And now he says, "My father has gone." Body, you saw the father's body. The body is there. Why you are crying, "My father has gone"? He's lying there. This is called defeat. What you are seeing, his father or his son, that is lying there, but he does not know who is his father, who is his son. This is called defeat. Abodha*-jātaḥ. He remains the same fool and rascal as he was born. A born rascal. Otherwise why children are sent to school? To become intelligent, to become men of knowledge, wise men. But where is the wisdom? Your technology is not there. The whole world is working under this wrong impression, that "I am this body." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. That is the defeat. It is practical. And they are simply meeting crisis after crisis, because they're rascals and fools. This is a civilization of rascal and fools. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why rascal and fools? Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. There is no inquiry, "What I am? Why I am becoming befooled? I am trying so much. Why the problems are still there, or the problems are increasing?" These questions are not there. Simply blindly, like asses and cows, working and going to the slaughterhouse, cannot protest, cannot protect. Animal civilization.

*So this animal civilization will continue so long one does not inquire what he is. That is real intelligence, "What I am? Am I this body? If I am not this body, then I am not American, I am not Indian, I am not black, I am not white, I am not brāhmaṇa, I am not śūdra." So many things become "I am not." And when you understand what you are, if you work on that basis, then there is no crisis. You are working on the wrong basis of understanding, identifying with this body yourself. You are not this body. Therefore unless one comes to the standard of inquiring, "What I am? Why I am forced to suffer? I do not like to suffer. I do not like to die. Why there is death? I do not like to become old man. Why I become old man? I do not want any disease. Why there is disease?" they are not making solution of these problems. They are after these temporary problems. Therefore they are working hard. Working hard means simply contaminating another kind of infection, and therefore the śarīra*-bandha. Śarīra-bandha, different types of bodies I am transmigrating from one body to another. My problem remains the same: birth, death, old age and disease. And therefore whatever I am doing, it is all defeat. Parābhava.

So don't work for being defeated by the laws of material nature. Try to conquer over the laws of material nature. That you can do simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Mama māyā duratyayā. What is that verse?

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*Where is that Bhagavad*-gītā? Take Bhagavad-gītā. Find out this verse. Seventh Chapter. Mama māyā duratyayā. So read books profusely, and learn the problems of life and the solution of life. Everything is there. Read it.



Pradyumna:



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."



Prabhupāda: Purport.



Pradyumna: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy, their original superior power is covered."



*Prabhupāda: We have to work under some energy. This is our position. We are also energy. Just like two energies, the negative and positive, works on electricity, similarly... There are varieties of energies. We are also one of the energies of God. So our position is marginal energy. We can work under spiritual energy, we can work under material energy. We have to take shelter of another energy. Therefore our position is marginal. We can take shelter of the material energy or the spiritual energy, as we like. If we take the shelter of material energy, then we become entangled. Therefore it is called daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Without knowledge, without identification, if we take the shelter of material energy, then we become in darkness. Tṛtīya karma*-saṅga anya śaktir iṣyate. This third energy, material, I mean to say, human being, or living entity... Therefore at the present moment... There are different atmosphere. Just like here, in this house, in this temple, the spiritual energy is acting. Outside this house the material energy's acting. What is the difference between this house and the next house? Here the material energy is not working. The spiritual energy is working. The other house, the same pattern, no difference between this house and that house. The only difference is the other house, they are interested in material energy, and here, in this house, the inhabitants interested in spiritual energy. So that is explained here, that if we work under material energy, then there will be problems of life. And if we work under spiritual energy there will be no... All problems will be solved. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is the purport? Go on.



Pradyumna: "Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal. The living entities belong to the eternal, superior nature of the Lord. But due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal."



Prabhupāda: Just like a citizen is supposed to remain free, but sometimes is put into the jail because he has worked under different criminal energy. So therefore he is put into the jail. But when he becomes perfectly civil, so there is no jail for him, he is free to move. So we have preferred to act under material energy; therefore we are suffering, there are problems. And if we prefer to act under spiritual energy, then we'll be happy. This is the difference.



So what is difference between material energy and spiritual energy? Material energy means one works for his own sense gratification, and spiritual energy means one works for sense gratification of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. There must be some sense gratification, working. But when we work for our personal sense gratification, that is called māyā. He cannot personally be satisfied without Kṛṣṇa. Just like in this body, different parts of the body, they cannot enjoy independently. If you get nice cake, you have to put it to the stomach; then you'll get energy. And if you want... This finger caught the cake and want to utilize themself, that is not possible. It must give it here. And then the energy will be distributed. This is the difference. The materialistic persons, they are simply taking things for enjoying themselves. That is māyā. They cannot enjoy them. But if you take through Kṛṣṇa, then it is spiritual life. That is the difference between material and spiritual.

*ātmendriya*-prīti-vāñchā--tāre bali 'kāma'

*kṛṣṇendriya*-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma

[Cc. Ādi 4.165]



*When you try to satisfy your own senses, that is lust. And when you satisfy..., when you try to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, or God, that is called love. Here in this material world so*-called love is personal sense gratification. A girl loves a boy, she has got the intention for personal sense gratification. Or the boy loves the girl, he has also the same, personal sense gratification. But the gopīs' love for Kṛṣṇa is not for personal sense gratification, but for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That is the difference between gopī's love and people's lust.



So love cannot be possible within this material world because every one has got the intention to satisfy his senses. Therefore love is not possible in the material world. Love is possible only in the spiritual atmosphere. When we know how to love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then our life is... Yayātmā suprasīdati. By that love you'll be fully satisfied. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to train people how to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa. Then all problems will be solved.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730910SB.STO

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.5

-

Stockholm, September 10, 19



Prabhupāda: So,



*parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto

*yāvan na jijñāsata ātma*-tattvam

yāvat kriyās tāvad idaṁ mano vai

*karmātmakaṁ yena śarīra*-bandhaḥ

[SB 5.5.5]



So in the previous verse Ṛṣabhadeva has said that this madness after sense gratification, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute, and doing all kinds of sinful activities, this is not good. And actually we can see... (aside:) No, I daily say that during talking you should not cut, cut. So one may argue, especially those who are atheists, that "Suppose we get a material body and little miserable. What is the wrong there? It will be finished. Then there will be no more pains and pleasures." That is the Buddhist theory, that the body is combination of matter, and there is pains and pleasures, so make this body zero. Then there will be no more pains and pleasures, and you will have to accept another body. And so long you shall continue to accept one body after another, the miserable condition of material existence will continue. Therefore in the beginning it was said that "This body, human body, is not to be misused simply for sense gratification like the dogs and hogs." That was the beginning.



*So therefore, again he says, parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. These rascals, they do not know that for want of knowledge of the soul, ātma-tattvam, on the bodily concept of life, whatever they are doing, that is defeat. They are thinking, "Now, by scientific advancement, we are able to go to the moon planet." Of course, I do not know whether they can go. Till now they are not successful. Or at least attempting. So this is our achievement. But Ṛṣabhadeva says, "That is not your achievement. That is your defeat. It is your defeat." Why defeat? Because you cannot come to the moon planet or sun planet or any other planet like that. You are simply wasting your time. Just try to understand. Suppose you want to go to some foreign country, and if you think that by force... Just like in England some Indians, they come by some what is called? Smuggling method.

Haṁsadūta: From underground, smuggling.



*Prabhupāda: Ah. So that is not allowed. You cannot go. The moon planet, from the śāstra we understand that nobody can go there unless he is fit. Not only the moon planet, any other planet. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. These are higher planetary systems. The demigods live there. So unless you are fit to live with the demigods, you cannot go there. Just like Kṛṣṇaloka. Unless you make yourself fit to enter into the Kṛṣṇaloka, you cannot go by force. That is not possible. Just like to enter into some foreign country, you have to take visa, you have to take passport, immigration. Then you will be allowed. So such attempt to go there. And even if you go there, you will be driven away. So what is the use of such attempt?



*Therefore this so*-called, what is called, excursion, to attempt to go to some planet, you cannot stay there, neither you'll be allowed to enter. So this endeavor to go there by so-called scientific advancement is simply defeat, because you will not be allowed, neither you can go there. And actually it is happening. What they have achieved so far? Nothing. No tangible action made. But they have spent millions of dollars, Russia and America, to go to the moon planet. And even you go there, but after all, you will have to die, you have to give up this body, and after death, you do not know where you'll be placed. That is under the nature's hand. You cannot dictate that "After death, I shall go to that planet or this planet." No. You are completely under the nature's control. Prakṛteḥ kriyāmāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Unless you are qualified... Everyone is ambitious, but does it mean by becoming ambitious, one can become very rich man or very respectable man? That is not possible. One must qualify himself. So these are futile attempts. You have to act according to the... But they do not believe that there is higher authority, there is judgment and everything. They think that it is blind: "Whatever we like, we can do." That is not good. Parābhavaḥ. This is called defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata.

*So long one is not inquisitive to understand what he is, without understanding his identification, whatever he does, it is defeat. This is the condition. Nobody is interested to know his identity. This is the instruction we get from Sanātana Gosvāmī. Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he first approached Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his question was that ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. This is very nice question, that "Kindly tell me what I am, what I am, and why I am subjected to the threefold miseries of material existence. I do not want all these miserable conditions of life, but I am forced to accept them. Therefore what is my position? Why I am forced to accept?" This should be the question. This is called ātma-tattva-jijñāsā inquiry. "What I am?" Nobody knows what he is. Everyone thinks that "I am this body." Therefore he is abodha-jāta. From the very birth, he is a rascal. He does not know his identity. Somebody is thinking, "I am American," somebody is thinking, "I am Englishman," somebody is thinking, "I am an Indian." All these identifications are doggish identification. Just like a dog is thinking "I am this body," the cat is thinking "I am this body," similarly, if a human being thinks like that, that "I am this body," then he remains in ignorance, abodha-jāta. And if you remain in ignorance, whatever you are acting as your credit, but you are acting in ignorance.

Therefore the achievement is not achievement; *it is defeat. This is to be understood. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na... One should be inquisitive. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He asked, "Sir, let me know what I am." Grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita: "In ordinary behavior, people say that I am very learned man. They say, 'paṇḍitajī.' " The brāhmaṇa is addressed in India as "paṇḍitajī." Paṇḍitajī means very learned. So Sanātana Gosvāmī submitted that "The general people, they say that I am very learned, but actually I do not know what I am." He admitted. So ask anybody, so-called scholar, doctors, Ph.D., D.H.C Just like that Professor Kotovsky said, "After finishing this body, everything is finished." He does not know what he is. This is the position. Therefore the so-called scholars, learned men, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated because he does not know his identity. Unless you know your identity, then how can you work for the goal of life? If your identity is mistaken, then whatever you are doing, that is your defeat. Yāvat kriyās tāvad idaṁ mano vai karmātmakaṁ yena śarīra-bandhaḥ. Everyone has got different types of mentality. So karmātmakam means... That is general mentality, that "I shall work very nice and I shall get money and I shall enjoy life." This is called karmātmakam. Not only in this life, next life also, they are trying, those who are followers of Vedic ritualistic ceremony, by puṇya-karma. Puṇya-karma means pious activities. Pious activities, that is also activity. So according to our philosophy, we are not impressed even in pious activity. We are not interested in impious activities. We are not interested even in pious activities. This is our position.

*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, karma*-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa, amṛta baliyā jebā khāya, nānā joni sadā phire, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. By pious activities, you can get very nice birth. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrīḥ [SB 1.8.26], four kinds of material gain: to get birth in a very aristocratic family or rich family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very learned scholar, śruta, and śrī, very beautiful. Just like you American people or Western people, you are supposed to be very learned, advanced in material science, also good-looking and richer than other countries, janma aiśvarya, or birth in a very powerful nation or family. This can be accepted-due to your past pious activities. But suppose you have taken this opportunity for your pious activities and somebody has taken birth in Greenland, always with snow, and there are so many inconveniences. Or take your birth in Africa. There there is no such facilities, they are not very good-looking, not very learned scholars, not birth is very nice, not aristocratic, not riches, poor. So from spiritual point of view, both of these kinds of facilities or inconvenience are one, because when you take your birth, you have to enter within the womb of a mother and stay ten months in a packed-up condition. Not only ten months. Nowadays it is going on, killing the child within the womb. Even you cannot come out. Before your coming out from the womb of your mother, you might be killed by your very mother or father. Because that movement is going on, abortion. So either you are in a womb of a very rich mother or a poor mother or in the womb of a black mother or white mother or a learned mother or foolish mother, the pains of staying within the mother is the same. It is not that because you are in the womb of a rich mother, therefore there will be no pain of living within the womb. The same pain. So janma. Then again, as soon as you accept some material body, you will have to suffer the bodily pains and pleasure. Then, at the time of death, the same painful condition.

*So it doesn't matter whether one is rich, one is poor, the material condition, both of them will have to suffer. The material condition. So karmātmakam. If you continue to absorb your mind in fruitive activities, that "I shall work and I shall get the result and I shall enjoy," this is called karmātmakam. So if you do not fulfill your desire, then nature will give you next life another body to fulfill that desire. This is going on. So therefore it is parābhava. Your business is that to know that you are not this body, you are spirit soul, part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. So your real business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious fully and go back to home, back to Godhead, finish this business of repetition of birth and death. But who will understand this? Therefore it is said, kṛṣṇa yei bhaje, sei baḍa catura. One who has understood what is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he must be very intelligent man. Without being intelligent man, nobody can understand what is the purport, what is the basic principle of this movement. The basic principle of this movement is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. And the result will be, if you understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be that after giving up this body, you go to Kṛṣṇa. Yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām. [Bg. 9.25]

*This devotional service, the worshiping Kṛṣṇa in the temple, to dress Him, as I explained another... Śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **, all these occupational duties will help you to understand Kṛṣṇa. Although it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa, but if you engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service, then Kṛṣṇa reveals to you what He is. And that is wanted. That is the perfection of your life. As soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become fit to go back to home, back to Godhead, and finish this business of repeated birth and death. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvataṁ nāpnuvanti [Bg. 8.15]. This secret of success, people do not know, neither they can understand. They are not fortunate enough. But it is our duty to push on this movement by superior order. Anyone who will take advantage of this movement, he'll be saved from this repetition, birth and death.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva says that "So long one's mind is absorbed in the conception that 'I shall work...' " As people are doing here, industry, trade, or so many things... The real purpose is to gratify senses. So in this way, if people are engaged, then he is parābhava, he is being defeated. Without understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, if simply one wastes his time for these fruitive activities, then he is defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jātaḥ.

*evaṁ manaḥ karma*-vaśaṁ prayuṅkte

avidyayātmany upadhīyamāne

prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve

*na mucyate deha*-yogena tāvat



*So everyone is under this impression, wrong conception of life. But he can be saved if he somehow or other becomes a devotee of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve. Vāsudeve bhagavati. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said,



vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*Vāsudeva. Here are the same thing, mayi vāsudeve. Ṛṣabhadeva is incarnation of Vāsudeva. So in this entanglement of birth and death, if someone comes in contact with devotee, guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151], and gets the seed of devotional service, then that is the beginning of being saved from this repetition of birth and death.



Just like we are giving opportunities to the people in general. We are opening centers in different parts of the world. What is the purpose? The purpose is to give chance to every man how to become devotee of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Then he will be saved. Yāvan na prītir mayi vāsudeve. Because people are struggling hard in this way, by working hard and getting the result for sense gratification and repetition of birth and death. In this struggle for existence, if somehow or other one gets the seed of devotional service to Vāsudeva, then he is saved. Yāvan na prītir mayi vāsudeve.

*evaṁ manaḥ karma*-vaśaṁ prayuṅkte

avidyayātmany upadhīyamāne

prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve

*na mucyate deha*-yogena tāvat



Unless one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, his repetition of birth and death and contacting another body from one body to another, that will continue. This is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do not misunderstand Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a kind of religious faith. It is a science, how to get release from this repetition of birth and death. This is the science. It is not that as people accept a system of religion and another system of of religion. Because a human being is supposed to accept some type of religion. Somebody is a Hindu, somebody is Mussulman, somebody is Christian. It is not that. It is a science. It is a science. We are teaching that somehow or other you enhance your love for God. Then you are saved. This is a science.



And how to enhance that love of Godhead? That is our activities: to rise early in the morning, to offer maṅgala-ārātrika, to dress the Deity, to offer Him nice foodstuff, to observe festivals, writing books, distributing them. These are activities in devotional service that will save us from this repetition of birth and death. Otherwise we are doomed. We have to continue this repetition of birth and death. Avidyayā eva manuṣyadan.(?) This is avidyā. By avidyā, by misunderstanding, without knowledge, being in ignorance, manuṣya, sometimes we are human being, sometimes cat, sometimes dog, sometimes demigod. This is going on. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona: [Cc. Madhya 19.151] "We are wandering throughout the whole universe, from one body to another, one planet to another, but somehow or other, if we are fortunate..." This fortune is made in this way. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." If somebody comes to our contact, if he tries to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is fortunate. He is fortunate. Because he'll be saved from the repetition of birth and death.

*Vīrarāghavācārya says therefore, deva*-manusvadau paradika deva vasiṣṭha tena aha ahaṅkāra mama upādhīyamāne.(?) That "I am not American, I am not Englishman." This is ahaṅkāra, upādhīyamāne. Karma-vaśana mulaya samsitamane satyatani mana karma-vaśaṁ prayuṅkte vyaparayati puruṣam iti śeṣa, atha yāvad vāsudeve mayi prītir, prīti rūpa bhakti na syāt tāvad deha-yogena na mucyate.(?) Unless you become devotee of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa... Therefore Kṛṣṇa personally comes and He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is for your interest. Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." It is not Kṛṣṇa's interest. If you surrender, not interest, Kṛṣṇa does not lose anything. He is omnipotent. He can create millions of devotees like you by His desire. He doesn't canvass. He is not canvassing, that "You become My devotee and I shall be very rich." No. Not the purpose. It is for your interest. The same thing. If you become a devotee of Vāsudeva, then you are saved from this repetition of birth and death. It is not Kṛṣṇa's interest. It is Kṛṣṇa's interest in this way, that because you are part and parcel, you are son of Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is the ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā... [Bg. 14.4]. As the father, rich father, He does not like to see that His son will become a crazy, mad fellow and loiter in the street. He doesn't want it. But if you do not come back to home, there is no loss of the father. But if you back to home of a rich father, then it is your interest. It is your interest.

*So Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. It is for our interest. So those who are fortunate, they will accept this offer of Kṛṣṇa and... Atha yāvad vāsudeve mayi prītir prīti rūpa bhakti.(?) Prīti means bhakti. Prīti means love. So there is Prīti-sandarbha by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, how one can become lover of Kṛṣṇa. Ṣaṭ-sandarbha. He has written six theses. One of them is the Prīti-sandarbha, Bhāgavata-sandarbha, six sandarbha, very highly philosophical books. So this prīti means bhakti. Bhakti is not official transaction. Bhakti means prīti, real love. When I actually love Kṛṣṇa, that is called prīti. Just like we love our beloved, our child or husband or wife... That is also not love. That is a temporary sentiment. Actual love is possible with Kṛṣṇa. That is actual love. Once you love Kṛṣṇa, it cannot be broken at any time. It cannot be broken, any circumstances. So therefore somehow or other we have to... Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. Somehow or other you must engage yourself in loving Kṛṣṇa. That is the success of life. Na devalam deha-yoga-matram api tu anartham tora chityaha yadeti svārthe sasya puruṣārtha bhute svātmā paramātmā deha-sambandha-prayukte vipaścit vivekisan yadā sahasā na paśyati yadā supavan gataḥ smṛti.(?)

This is very important. Ṛṣabhadeva says, yadā na paśyaty ayathā guṇehāṁ svārthe pramattaḥ sahasā vipaścit. So we have to become intelligent that guṇehā... Guṇa, guṇa means these three guṇas, goodness, three modes of material nature. Everyone is trying to love one of these three guṇas: goodness, passion and ignorance. That is material existence. Somebody is trying to become brāhmaṇa, that is goodness. And somebody is trying to become a kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these are under the influence of different modes of material nature. So even one is brāhmaṇa, he is also under the grip of material nature. And what to speak of one who is a śūdra or less than a śūdra. Everyone is trying to improve himself under the influence of certain modes of material nature. So when one becomes vipaścit, viveki... Vipaścit means enlightened. These, my activities under the influence of different modes of material nature, this is waste of time. Even if I become a brāhmaṇa, that is also waste of time, and what to speak of if I become a kṣatriya, passionate. Passionate... This vaiśya, this mercantile class of men, they are passionate and ignorance mixture. They are very active: "I am very running, I am very busy," but running here and there in ignorance. Just like you will see the monkey. Monkey is always very busy, but what is the meaning of his business? He is in ignorance. As soon as a monkey comes... You have so such disturbance. In India, as soon as a monkey comes, everyone wants to drive him away. Because he has come to become business and to make some loss. That's all. That is his business. Wherever he sits, he will move like this. (makes sounds moving arms back and forth) He is not at all silent. He is always active. But because he is monkey, monkey is a symbol of... Ass, they are symbol of ignorance. Therefore such kind of business is useless. It is simply harmful.

*So when one comes to understand that "This is my business, this my goodness, everything, it is all useless. Unless I become attached, I am a devotee of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, all these attempts are simply futile attempts," that is enlightenment. When one understands, "Yes, my only business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, to love Kṛṣṇa," then he is to be understood, he is enlightened, educated. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. That is fortune. Yadā na paśyaty ayathā guṇehāṁ svārthe pramattaḥ. He does not know his interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that "My svārtha, my interest, my goal of life, is to love, to find out God and to love Him. That is my real interest." So, so long one is not enlightened to that standard of life, then he is defeated. Then how he is defeated? Gata-smṛtir, gata-smṛtir vindati tatra tāpān āsādya maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ. He remains a ajñaḥ, foolish. And what is his happiness? His happiness is sex life. That's all. That is his happiness. Maithunyam agāram. He is in the prison house of this material nature, but he does not know that "I am in prison." He is simply enjoying the three things. Udāram varitha.(?) Udāram varitha: the tongue, the belly and the genital. That is stated here. Gata-smṛtir vindati. And to enjoy this material, he has to undergo so much tribulation. Tāpān vindati.

*Therefore Govinda dāsa sings, śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa, e dina jāminī jāgi re, biphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana, capala sukha*-laba lāgi' re. In this country, there is snowfall. Still, people will have to go to work very hard, day and night. But why? Why they are accepting such hard labor? Somebody is coming from India in this country. The climate is not very suitable in comparison to India, but they have come here to work hard. Why? Sex pleasure. That's all. He will get money and he will have home and sex pleasure or tongue pleasure. So therefore it is said, gata-smṛtiḥ. Actual. Actually, he has forgotten. His own business, he has forgotten, but he is entrapped by a process of sense gratification. Although it is very great hardship and miserable condition, but he is satisfied because this sense gratification is there. Gata-smṛtiḥ tatra tāpān āsādya maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ. Because he is foolish, therefore he likes to be imprisoned simply for sense gratification.

*You know the elephant is captured for sense gratification. You know that? Elephant is captured. A big elephant, to capture, it is very difficult. But a female elephant goes there, and he comes for sex, and the female elephant goes forward. Then she brings in a place where there is a big pit and he falls down, the male elephant. Then he becomes captured. Yes. These are the nature's example, how for... And not only sex. Just like the bees. They enter into the lotus flower for eating honey, and they are enjoying. In the meantime, the lotus flower petals becomes closed. So he becomes entrapped, cannot come out, dies. The fish. The fish, how they tackle? You know? You have seen the, what is called, tackle? What is that? There is a small attractive foodstuff, and the fish comes, and as soon as he swallows, bas, he is captured. Similarly, the deers, they are also captured by the hunter. He plays nice flute, and the deers stand up. They are very much fond of music. So as soon as they stand up, entrapped. So one animal or lower than human being, they have got one sense very strong. Someone's the ear, someone's the nose, someone's the tongue, someone's the genital, in this way. But they have got one sense strong. And we, so*-called civilized man, our six senses are all strong. So what is the position?

*So unless one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is doomed. So many senses. Tongue is taking him to the hotel, ear is taking to the musical, and eyes is taking, the beautiful things to see. In this way we are embarrassed in so many ways. That is called maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ. He has forgotten his real business, but he is entrapped in a pot or in a place where sense gratification is going on. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī*-bhāvam etaṁ tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ [SB 5.5.8]. So this mithunī-bhāvam, the sense enjoyment is very strong. So there are two sexes, male and female. And each one of them are attracted by sense gratification, and when they are united, that... [break] In this way, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ, then they become attached to gṛha. Because they must live in an apartment, they must have some land, gṛha-kṣetra. Everywhere that is going on. In this way they become entrapped. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means... But those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, for them, it is not... They are vigilant that "My real business is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but it is a license given to me for sense gratification, for gṛhastha, but we should not forget our real business and entrapped in this material nature." That should be our business.

Thank you very much. (end)



761027SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.5

-

Vṛndāvana, October 27, 197



Pradyumna: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance. Be it sinful or pious, karma has its resultant actions. If a person is engaged in any kind of karma, his mind is called karmātmaka, colored with fruitive activity. As long as the mind is impure, consciousness is unclear, and as long as one is absorbed in fruitive activity, he has to accept a material body."



Prabhupāda:



*parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto

*yāvan na jijñāsata ātma*-tattvam

yāvat kriyās tāvad idaṁ mano vai

*karmātmakaṁ yena śarīra*-bandhaḥ

[SB 5.5.5]



*It is very quite natural, whatever you do, your mind will be absorbed in that business. Karmātmakam. Therefore our mind should be engaged always in Kṛṣṇa: sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padaravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. Then we can be relieved from this śarīra-bandhaḥ. Unfortunately, there is no education that it is a great hamper, impediment, to our progress of life, this material body. And in the Vedic civilization, this material body is condemned everywhere-material, śarīra-bandhaḥ. They do not understand.



*So in the bondage state, whatever you are doing in so*-called material progress, it is not progress. It is parābhavas, defeat. People are so busily engaged throughout day and night. They are making material progress, but it is not progress. It is regress. But they do not know it. Why? Abodha-jātaḥ, born rascal. Born rascal. If we say that "You are all born rascals," they'll fight. But actually that is the fact. Born rascals: abodha-jātaḥ. Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. That ātma-tattvam, brahma-jijñāsa. Where is that inquiry? Nobody inquires because they have no information. The cats and dogs, big, big professors, they are thinking so long this body is there, by chance, by accident, we have got this body, and as soon as the body is finished, everything is finished. That means they do not know ātma-tattvam. On this misconception of life they are inventing so many "isms."

*Just now in the morning we were talking that inventing some means for curing the leprosy. That is good, but why there should be leprosy? That they do not know. Why one man is suffering from leprosy, another man is not suffering? Is there no arrangement? Who is making this arrangement, that one man is suffering from leprosy, another is not suffering, he's quite in good health? So unless there is some arrangement, how it is happening? They do not question. Jijñāsu. That inquisitiveness is absent, dull. Just like trees. They cannot inquire even that "Why you are cutting?" The tree. "Why you are doing harm to..." No inquiry. Just like stone and trees. This is the modern human civilization. Therefore whatever plans they are making, it is becoming baffled, useless after some time, parābhavaḥ. Because they do not know what plan they should make. Just like children, they are thinking that "If I play like this, it will be very nice." So becomes engaged in one type of playing. And then again changing, another type of playing, because they do not know what kind of plan should be made so that Children. Abodha*-jātaḥ. Children's another name is abodha. So from abodha, one has to be brought to the platform of bodha. Bodhayantaṁ parasparam. This word is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is mahātmā. Bodhayantaṁ parasparam. Not the abodhayantam. The other rascals, they are abodha, those who are bodhayantaṁ parasparam. What is that verse? Mac-cittā mad-gata-prāṇā bodhayantaḥ parasparam [Bg. 10.9]. This is called sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga. People should be engaged always inquiring about progress of spiritual life. That is advancement. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam. There should be constantly discussion. Everything is there in the books. Just like this word abodha-jātaḥ. We can discuss on this point, abodha-jātaḥ.

*So this is jijñāsu. And to dissipate this ignorance, get out of this ignorance, one has to approach a person who is not abodha but bodha. Budhā. Budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ, one who knows what is the destination of life. That budhā... What is that? Bhajante ananya manaso budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ [Bg. 10.8]. So one has to approach a budhā. Therefore Lord Buddha's name is Buddha. From this bodha. He has understood everything. He was prince, and he never came out of the palace, and when he came out he saw one old man with a stick, with great difficulty walking. So inquired his servants, "What is this?" "This is old man. Everyone has to become like this." That was the inspiration of understanding. Why he should be like that? Why one should become old man? Why he should walk on sticks? So these inquiries made him Buddha, Lord Buddha, by meditation. That is his pastime. That means one should understand by nature study, why this man is diseased, why this man is old, why this man is suffering. Then bodhayantaḥ parasparam, then the inquisitiveness can lead him to the proper knowledge. And where to get that proper knowledge? That is guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. But if there is no inquiry, if one is dull like stone and tree, then how there will be inquiry?

*So our education at the present moment is given just dull like stone and trees. Trees standing, cutting. No inquiry, no... "Why you are cutting?" He cannot. So dull. But this inquisitiveness should be enthused. People should be enthused to inquire: ādau gurvāśrayaṁ sad*-dharma pṛcchāt. Sad-dharma pṛcchāt. That inquisitive must Guru means To accept guru means the disciple should be very very eager to know. Sad-dharma pṛcchāt. Ādau gurvāśrayam. Why you accept a guru? "It is a fashion." Fashion. Nowadays they accept a guru fashion. "Everyone has guru. Everyone has a dog. Well, let me keep a dog." Like that. A pet dog. So similarly, to keep a pet guru, that is not One should be very inquisitive: sad-dharma pṛcchāt. And everywhere the same thing. Paripraśna. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. But don't make inquiries cheap: "Here is my guru, and he's meant for answering all my questions. Let me go on questioning, questioning, questioning." No. Sevayā. You must serve. You must be ready to serve him. Then you have got right to make question. Otherwise not. Two things. First of all, you must find out a person where you can fully surrender, praṇipātena. And then you can inquire, and the inquiry should be compensated by seva. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasāda. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. The more you are inclined to render seva, the more the truth becomes revealed.

yasya deve parā bhaktir

*yathā*-deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakaśante (mahātmanaḥ)

[ŚU 6.23]



*It is a different science. The more you are inclined to render service, the more spiritual truth becomes revealed. And two things: if you are not inquisitive, don't bother yourself to have a guru. Useless. There is no need. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Tasmād. Therefore. What is therefore? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. If you are inquisitive about transcendental science, śreya uttamam... Śreya and preya*-two things are there. Śreya means ultimate good, and preya means immediate sense gratification, it is preya. And śreya means ultimate good. So if one is inquisitive to know what is the ultimate goal of life, for him, a guru is required. But if he wants immediate some sense gratification, he doesn't require a guru. For sense gratification there is no need of guru. Even these birds and beasts, they know how to gratify senses. There is no need of university or teacher. Say for sex life, nobody requires to go to the university. They know. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. These four things, there is no need of university education. But at the present moment to go to university means how to gratify the senses very scientifically. Scientifically. How to steal scientifically. Does it require any scientific knowledge how to cut throat and how to steal? No. They require education for spiritual understanding, tad-vijñānārtham, not this vijñānārtham, this material knowledge. It doesn't require. It is simply a waste of time. This modern university education is simply a waste of time.



There was no education for even the vaiśyas. There are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. But vaiśya and śūdra, there is no need of education. The brāhmaṇas, because they will guide the society, they require education. And the kṣatriya, they will give protection to the society; *therefore there was education guided by the brāhmaṇa. And for the vaiśyas, kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma... [Bg 18.44]. Where is the education? He can see, learn from his father how the field is to be cultivated with a plow. He doesn't require. He can see. And fifty years ago we have seen that those who were in the lower status of life, they never sent their children to school. I have seen it. Never sent. "Oh, what is the use of wasting time? Better admit him in some working shop or in some business." The Marwaris still do that: "Please keep my son in your firm." And small children, by seeing Just like our children, they are seeing this Deity worship, this kīrtana*-they will learn. Similarly, those who have to work to earn their livelihood, mechanical or some, they can go to What is the use of wasting time to the..., going to the university? Scientific education for hammering? Hammering you can see. You take a hammer and go on. (laughs) What is the use for... Technical nonsense, they have invented technical... Does it require any education? No. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] education required if you require to understand the value of life, tattva-jijñāsaḥ. Tattva-jijñāsu śreya uttamam. Jijñāsu tattva-jijñāsaḥ. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsaḥ. This is recommended in the... Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsaḥ na yaś ceha karmabhīḥ. Tattva-jijñāsa. Brahma-jijñāsa. This is life. Otherwise abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ.

*So this abodha-jātaḥ, this rascal civilization, whatever they are planning, whatever they are doing, that is simply defeat. He does not know what is the aim of life. They are being defeated. So this time, this life I have become prime minister, making so many plans and so many things and so many things. Next life I become a dog. That you cannot check. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. The God's law or nature's law, will not take account of your premiership, prime ministership. What you are actually-that is nature's law. Kṛṣṇa is there within your heart. Outwardly you become a very big man-minister, president and so on-and God is seeing within what you are. Within. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Within you are a dog, and outside if you are a president, that will not help you. That will not help you. Abodha-jātaḥ. Therefore whatever plan they are making, that's all defeat. Plan*-making is already there. Kṛṣṇa has given plan gradually. The last plan is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is real plan. This is Kṛṣṇa has given so many plans: karma-yogi, dhyāna-yogi, this yogi, that. But everywhere He has concluded that the real plan is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is real plan. Yoginām api sarveṣām mad-gatenāntarātmānā śraddhāvān... [Bg. 6.47]. You are trying to be yogi, that's all right. This is haṭha-yoga. Go to a secluded place, sit down in this way, looking. Not sleeping. Eyes half-open. See to the point of your nose. So on, so on. Complete celibacy. These things Kṛṣṇa has said everything, how to become a yogi, how to become a jñāni, how to become a karmi. But everywhere He has concluded about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Jñāni? All right: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 7.19]. "They're coming to Me." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi kuruṣva tat mad arpaṇam. The ultimate is Kṛṣṇa. That is real plan. And if you do not know this plan, śrama eva hi kevalam-simply waste of time.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvakṣena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



If you do not know ultimately that Kṛṣṇa is required, then all your jñāna, karma, yoga, tapasya, everything is simply waste of time. Simply waste of time.



*Therefore it is said parābhava. Whatever you are doing, simply defeat. Because you do not know ātma*-tattva. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2]. Very dangerous position. If we do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are defeated in every sphere of life. And then, after death, karmaṇā daiva netreṇa yantra dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. You have to change your body. And that will be selected not by you, not by your government, not by your father, not by your so-called guru. It will be decided by the laws of nature. That you cannot avoid. You should always remember that Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. These rascals, they do not know that his self-interest, ultimate goal of self-interest, is Viṣṇu. Duraśayā ye bahir-artha māninaḥ. Simply by the false hope, hope against hope, they are trying to adjust things materially or so-called spiritually, by this or that. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. These rascals, they are tied with the laws of material nature, hand and legs, and they are thinking they are free to do anything and everything without any consultation of śāstra.

*yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti

(na sukham na) parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



The same thing. No siddhi. If you do not get success, what is the use of your working so hard? Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti. Na sukhaṁ na parām.



*So without consulting śāstra, without consulting guru, without consulting Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He has given. He has come to help you because you are being misled by the so*-called leaders. Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. These rascals, these leaders, they will simply mislead you. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]. They are blind. They do not know how to live. They do not know. Therefore Kṛṣṇa personally comes: "All right. I shall lead you. Take My advice, take My instruction, and ultimately surrender unto Me. Then I'll lead you back to home, back to Godhead."

Thank you very much. (end)



761028SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.6

-

Vṛndāvana, October 28, 197



Pradyumna: "When the living entity is covered by the mode of ignorance, he does not understand the individual living being and the supreme living being, and his mind is subjugated to fruitive activity. Therefore, until one has love for Lord Vāsudeva, who is none other than Myself, he is certainly not delivered from having to accept a material body again and again."



Prabhupāda:



*evaṁ manaḥ karma*-vaśaṁ prayuṅkte

avidyayātmany upadhīyamāne

prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve

*na mucyate deha*-yogena tāvat

[SB 5.5.6]



*This is another important verse. The problem is presented, deha*-yogena. Deha-yogena, this body, contact with this material body, this is the problem. But nobody knows it. Especially in these days they cannot understand that "This material body is a foreign element, and somehow or other I am victimized, I am entrapped within this body." This problem is real problem. But they do not know. And this is called avidyā, ignorance.



*There are two kinds of strong avidyā, ignorance, unawareness. Sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa is covering. Tamo-guṇa is very densely covering, and rajo-guṇa little open, and sattva-guṇa means prakāśa, there is illumination, brahminical qualifications. When one is in the sattva-guṇa then he can understand that "I am not this body. I am different from this body." For them, those who are in the sattva-guṇa, for them it is easier. So therefore the process is Human civilization means not to drag somebody who is already in the sattva-guṇa or in the family of sattva-guṇa, to drag him down to the tamo-guṇa. The modern civilization is like that. The allurement of material civilization is so strong and so bad that those who are by pious activities born in brāhmaṇa family, they are being dragged to the tamo-guṇa behavior like śūdras. They are learning how to drink, how to eat meat, how to have illicit sex. These are the symptoms of tamo-guṇa, lowest type of tamo-guṇa. There are different degrees of guṇa. The degrees are so mixed up. Therefore three guṇas is manifested into 8,400,000 different forms of life, mixture. You can calculate. We have several times calculated. Three multiplied by three equals nine. Nine multiplied by nine, eighty-one. So therefore there are so many varieties. So human civilization should be so arranged that never mind, it is so mixed up, you have to gradually draw him again to the sattva-guṇa. That is human civilization. Not that drag him again to the tamo-guṇa. Somebody, by pious activities, by good work, he's already in the sattva-guṇa, but the arrangement The social, political, economical arrangement is so bad that one is dragged to the tamo-guṇa. This is not civilization. This is degradation. Civilization means elevation. The aim is how to become disconnected with this material body. This is civilization. Otherwise that is not civilization. It is animal life. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13].

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt to bring the human society into the proper platform of civilization. It is a very scientific movement. How it is done? Here it is said, prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve. Prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve na mucyate deha-yogena tāvat. This is the problem. So by gradual process, to bring one to the platform of vāsudeve prītir, that is bhakti. Prītir means love, how to love Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. That is civilization*-to bring one to the platform of loving Kṛṣṇa, prītir to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva sarvam iti. Just like if you love somebody, the intense love is that your lover or beloved is everything. That is love. Just like a mother loves her child. So she is always anxious to take care of the child. Whole attention is on the child. These are examples. These are not actually love, but a perverted reflection of love. We can understand what is love. This love does not stand, but nature dictates that you love your child like this, you love your husband like this, your wife like this, your country like this, your society like this. There are different grades of loving demonstration. That loving demonstration, when it will be concentrated on Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, that is the highest perfection of life.

Therefore it is said, prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve. One may have prītir... Because we do not know Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, we have got natural tendency to love, but we do not know where to place love. If we place our loving tendency unto Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, then that tendency becomes fruitful and perfection. That is wanted. Therefore it is said that,

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*If you place your loving tendency to Vāsudeva, then vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ. This can be done perfectly by bhakti-yoga, not by any other. There are different yoga systems. Everything is mixed up with little bhakti, but... Just like karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, there are different. But the real yoga means loving Vāsudeva, Bhagavān. Therefore Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yogināṁ api sarveṣāṁ [Bg. 6.47]. All other yoga systems there is little tinge of vāsudeva-bhakti, but not cent percent pure. It is mixed. Miśra-bhakti. Miśra-bhakti will not be immediately fruitful. It will take long, long time. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Everything, there is some bhakti-yoga, but if it is not pure, then it will take very, very, very, very long time, bahūnāṁ janmanām. One janma means hundreds of years. We are not talking of any other janma. Even human form of life. Because those who are advanced in spiritual life, there is every possibility for getting next life a human being. Otherwise nobody knows. Those who are ignorant, they do not know. There will be change of body-tathā dehāntara prāptir*-that is a fact. But those who are in the sattva-guṇa, they are sure to get next life in the human society. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. This śucīnāṁ, pure brāhmaṇa, and śrīmatāṁ, very rich vaiśya, or kṣatriya. Kings and mercantile community, they are rich, śrīmat. Śrī means opulence, and mat means one who has. Śrīmatām.



*So this is a chance that even if you are failure in this life, somehow or other, you get chance next life again human form of life, either in a very nice pure brāhmaṇa family or Vaiṣṇava family. Vaiṣṇava family is better than brāhmaṇa family. [break] ...ringing the karatālas, chanting, dancing, offering obeisances to the Lord, temple atmosphere. Don't think it is ordinary opportunity. It is very great opportunity. From the very beginning of life they are getting impression, bhakti*-yoga. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga. These are not going in vain. Even a child is playing karatāla, imitation. Not imitation. He's given the chance. He was previously Vaiṣṇava. Somehow or other, he could not make his life perfect. Therefore he is given again chance. So naturally he has got tendency to play the karatāla, to offer flower here, to offer obeisances. They take pleasure. It is due to previous life, yogas. But it was not perfectly done, so somehow or other they are getting chance from the very beginning of life. It does not mean that if somebody did not get the chance from the very beginning of life he cannot. He can be also.

*So..., but the ultimate aim is vāsudeve. Prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve. This is the ultimate goal. You have to come to this stage, vāsudeva sarvam iti, fully, firmly convinced that "Vāsudeva is my life. Vāsudeva is everything. Kṛṣṇa is my life." And the highest perfection is visible in the Vṛndāvana atmosphere, especially by the gopīs. Everyone in Vṛndāvana, even the trees and plants, even the grains of sand, everyone is attached to Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. So not all of a sudden we can get that highest stage of life of Vṛndāvana attachment, but still, wherever we stay, if we practice this bhakti*-yoga, as we are preaching... It is becoming successful. People are taking. Those who were so-called mlecchas and yavanas, they are also taking to Vāsudeva. Their love for Kṛṣṇa is increasing. That is natural. It is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. Nitya siddha. Just like I am, or you are, we are eternal. Nityo śāśvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We are not destroyed by the destruction of the body. We remain, continue to remain. Similarly, our devotion to Kṛṣṇa continues. It is simply covered. Avidyayātmāny upādhiyamāne. Avidya. This is avidya. We forget Kṛṣṇa, that is avidya. And as soon as we take Kṛṣṇa as our life and soul, that is vidya. You can do. Anyone can do very easily. Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, sarva dharmān parityajya mam ekam śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. Why? Any other so-called religious system, that is avidya-will keep you in ignorance. There is no light. And the Vedic injunction is that "Don't keep yourself in the darkness of ignorance." Tamasi mā jyoti gamaḥ.

*That jyotiḥ means to love Kṛṣṇa. And loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa is in the spiritual world. That is jyotiḥ, jyotirmāyā dhāma, self*-effulgent. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koti [Bs. 5.40]. There is no darkness. Just like in the sun there is no question of darkness. The examples are here. We can understand what is jyotiḥ. We can see that there is no darkness in the sun planet. It is all glowing effulgence. Similarly, in the spiritual world there is no ignorance. Everyone is śuddha-sattva. Not only sattva-guṇa, but śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva-śabditaḥ. Here, in this material world, there are three qualities, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So none of these guṇas are pure. There is a mixture. And because there is mixture, therefore we see so many varieties. But we have to come to the platform of sattva-guṇa. And that process is hearing. This is the best process. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you hear regularly Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... We are therefore stressing: "Always hear, always read, always hear." Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. Nitya. If you can constantly, twenty-four hours, if you hear and chant Hear means somebody chants or you chant yourself or hear, or some of your colleague may chant, you hear. Or he may hear, you may chant. This process must go on. This is śrāvaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. That is Bhāgavata. Not any other nonsense talks, gossiping. Simply hear and chant. Then śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇa. If you seriously hear and chant, seriously-"Yes, this life I shall engage only for increasing my love of Vāsudeva"-if you are determined, it can be done. There is no difficulty. And as soon as you do this, you increase fully your love for Vasudeva, then there is no more chance of contacting material body.

janma karma ca divyam

me yo janati tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti...

[Bg. 4.9]



That is the same thing.



*And if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, if you do not increase your natural love for Kṛṣṇa, then na mucyate deha*-yogena tāvat. There is no chance. They have no chance. You may take birth next life in a very rich family, in a brāhmaṇa family, yogo-bhraṣṭaḥ, but that is also not release. Again you may fall down. Just like we see there are so many... Just like you Americans, you are born in rich family, rich nation, but falling down, becoming hippies. Falling down. So there is chance. Not that it is guaranteed. "Because I am born in a rich family or brāhmaṇa family, that is guarantee." No guarantee. This māyā is so strong that it is only trying to drag you-drag you down, drag you down. So many influences. So therefore we sometimes see that these Americans, they are so fortunate they are born in a country where there is no poverty, there is no scarcity. But still, because the leaders are rascals, they have arranged for meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, and gambling. Advertise. Advertise naked woman and, what is called, beefeaters, and liquor. This is going on. Advertise cigarettes, just to pull them down again. Go to hell. Punar mūṣika bhava. They do not know what dangerous civilization this is dragging them. Therefore sometimes some saner section of the old men, they come to me, they offer their thanks: "Swamiji, it is a great fortune that you have come to our country." They acknowledge. Yes, that's a fact. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a great fortunate movement. And especially in the Western countries, that's a fact.

*So those who have taken, take it very seriously. Increase your love for Kṛṣṇa. Prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve na mucyate deha yogena... They do not know what is the actual problem of life. The actual problem of life is deha*-yoga, this foreign body. We are accepting one time Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], accepting one type of body. Therefore they have, these rascals, leaders in Europe and America, they have concluded there is no birth. That's all. Because if they accept there is life after death, then it is horrible for them. So they have dismissed: "No, there is no birth." Big big so-called professors, learned scholars, they talk foolishly: "Swamiji, after this body is finished, everything is finished." That is their conclusion. And the body comes by accident, kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8].

So, this kind of civilization is very dangerous. Very, very dangerous. So at least those who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should be very, very cautious about this dangerous type of civilization. People are suffering. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be happy and perfect.

Thank you very much. (end)



761029SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.7

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Vṛndāvana, October 29, 19



Pradyumna: "Even though one may be very learned and wise, he is mad if he does not understand that the endeavor for sense gratification is a useless waste of time. Being forgetful of his own interest, he tries to be happy in the material world, centering his interests around his home, which is based on sexual intercourse and which brings him all kinds of material miseries. In this way one is no better than a foolish animal."



Prabhupāda:



yadā na paśyaty ayathā guṇehāṁ

svārthe pramattaḥ sahasā vipaścit

*gata*-smṛtir vindati tatra tāpān

āsādya maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ

[SB 5.5.7]



*So, one has to be vipaścit, learned, to understand the interest of life, self*-interest. Everyone is working, especially the karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis, and mixed devotees, they are working for self-interest. The devotees also, so long there is self, there is self-interest also. So there is little difference, that the devotees, they work for Super-self-interest. There is self, but it is Super-self-interest. And the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis they work for individual self-interest. Self-interest there must be. That is the difference between lust and prema, or love. It has been defined in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, what is the difference between lust and love. It appears almost the same but Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī has given a definition very clear, ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā-tāre bali 'kāma' [Cc. Ādi 4.165]. When one is interested for his personal sense gratification, that is called kāma or lust, and kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma, and when one is interested for satisfying the senses of Kṛṣṇa, that is prema. And the concrete example is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that in the beginning Arjuna was thinking of interest of the family. How can I kill my brother, my nephews, my master, teacher, my grandfather, in terms of his family interest.



*There are, for the materialistic person, there are two varieties of self*-interest. One is concentrated interest and other is expanded interest. Just like a child, if you give him some foodstuff, a cake, he will immediately eat himself, and if he is little liberal, then his other friends also, he will give. First of all, first is, he wants to eat, and then the other friend, "Oh you are eating, give me something." Alright you also take. So, this is called extended interest and the beginning is self-interest, anna brahma(?), I shall... Self-preservation is the first law of nature. So in our ordinary activities we find the same thing. Suppose a big political leader, in the beginning he is interested with his family, with his family members, but sometimes he takes to national interest, for all members of the country, or the society, community. And then there is fight between one community to another community, one family to another family, one nation to another nation, because that extended self-interest does not make the thing perfect. That extended self-interest must be up to Viṣṇu. Then it will be perfect. But that they do not know, because they have no idea that there is Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord, or Kṛṣṇa. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know. They think that I have extended my self-interest to my country, to my family, I have become a big man. And people also give him honor. This we have practical experience but that is extended self-interest. That is not actually philanthropy.

*Philanthropy is when one becomes interested in Kṛṣṇa's interest, that is real philanthropy. Otherwise it is all kāma. There is no question of prema. It is going on as prema, deśa*-bhakti (?), love for humanity. Hm? The whole world is going on, but these are all imperfect things. The so-called philanthropism, altruism, humanitarianism, they are all, means imperfect, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. That is not self-interest. Self-interest... Just like this finger, pick up some nice cake, rasagullā, but if the fingers think that, "We have got it, we shall use it," all the fingers together, it will be spoiled. But if the fingers think that, "Give it to the stomach," then it will be everyone's interest. As soon as the rasagullā goes to the stomach the energy is distributed not only to these fingers of right hand, but left hand fingers also. This law they do not know. This law they do not know. Therefore it is yadā na paśyanti, paśyaty ayathā guṇehām. Everyone is trying communally, nationally, individually, for his or their interest, so that is not good svārthe pramattaḥ. They do not know what is real self-interest.

*Yadā na paśyaty ayathā guṇehāṁ svārthe. Everyone should be interested, but svārthe. This is svārthe, that if you get a nice food stuff, if you put to the stomach, then real svārthe. Not only the fingers which have picked up the foodstuff, not only his interested, tasmin tuṣṭe jagat tuṣṭaḥ. Yathā taror mūla, prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇām. If you put the foodstuff through this one way, not foolish way, that we have to put the foodstuff within the body. So there are nine holes in the body, this mouth, the eyes, the ears, the genital, the rectum the navel. There are nine holes. If some rascal says that any hole will do, you put the foodstuff through any hole. Sometimes it is done. When one cannot eat, the foodstuff is forced through the body, through the rectum, through the nose. That is very troublesome. But the real process is, one process, you put the foodstuff through the mouth. It must go to the stomach and then the energy will be distributed, everyone will be happy. Similarly, if we serve Kṛṣṇa, if we abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, and satisfy Him, as He says, Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], that is the perfection of life. If we work otherwise, forgetting Kṛṣṇa... Here it is said, gata-smṛtir vindati tatra tāpān. If we forget Kṛṣṇa, if we make our own plan to satisfy myself, community, society, nation, this is forgetfulness and the result will be, gata-smṛtir vindati tatra tāpān. You get simply trouble. That is being done, actually. The whole world is forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa, forgetfulness, and they are making so many plans to become happy but the result is vindati tāpān, simply suffering, simply suffering. It will never be successful.

*The same example, yathā taror mūla*-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ [SB 4.31.14], the process is that you have to pour water at the root of the tree, then the tree will luxuriantly grow. But if you do not know the process, if you begin watering leaf to leaf, branch to branch, twig to twig, it will be simply waste of time. You can say, "I am pouring water on this leaf, on that leaf, on that..." It will take... You cannot. There are so many leaves in the tree, it is not possible individually, you can do it. But if you put the water, pour the water on the root, it is very easy, and all the leaves, and twigs, and flowers, and fruits, they get nourishment. That is wanted. Yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ, prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇām [SB 4.31.14], and by offering food to the stomach, all the indriyas, senses, they become vigorous or strong. Similarly, sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā, if you satisfy Kṛṣṇa, acyuta ijyā, then the whole society, whole community, whole living beings, everyone will be satisfied. If you simply push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then all different activities of the human society will be very, very, nicely performed. Or if you do this nationalism, communism, it will never be perfect.

*So we have got example in our country, many countries, not only our country, your country also, that President Kennedy, he was killed. Many other presidents also*-in our country Gandhi was killed-because in that way, you cannot satisfy everyone. It is not possible. The so called socialism, communism, altruism, humanitarianism, will never be able to satisfy everyone. That is not possible. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ jātā mayi na karuṇā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. These different types of isms, that is simply satisfying different desires. It is not the program.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viṣvaksena kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*So, that is simply waste of time. The same thing is repeated, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Durāśayā, people are trying to be happy by so many bahir-artha, external desires. Artha, artha means actual interests. And anartha, anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje [SB 1.7.6]. Artha means how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, this is artha. It is said, arthadam, arthadam, you can get real interest in this life,



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*This human form of life, although adhruvam... Everybody, we cannot continue this body for all the time. It will be ended, dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], another body. So this is the general rule for all living entities, either dog's body, or hog's body, or man's body. It will not stay, it will not endure. You have to change. Therefore it is called adhruvam. But, the special advantage of this human form of life-Prahlāda Mahārāja says-although it is adhruvam, it will not stay, but arthadam, you can have your real interest fulfilled.



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



This we must understand, that although we have got also a body, and the dog has also a body, the same composition kṣitir āp marud vyoma, mind, intelligence, and ego. There is no difference. The dog has also mind, and I have got mind, you have got mind. The dog has also intelligence, we have got also intelligence. The dog also can eat, you can also eat. The dog can sleep, you can also sleep. So there is no difference so far the bodily constitution. And superficially, if you cut my body there will be blood, if you cut the body of an animal there will be blood. So, in every respect, so far the material body is concerned, it is the same, either of the human being, or of a small insect. The same construction, physiological and atomical, everything is the same. But the difference is, in other body there is no arthadam, but with the human body there will be arthadam. You can realize your position, you can act accordingly, you can make your life successful. That is the special advantage of this human form of life.



*Therefore it is said, yadā na paśyaty ayathā guṇehām. We are struggling, guṇe, in this material world. Guṇamayī. Māyā, māyā is called guṇamayī. Guṇe means in the māyā. Īhā, īhā means aspiration. So everyone is trying according to different modes of material nature. Everyone is working, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is, everything is guṇe īhā. So when one does not become conscious that I am working under the influence of material nature in different status of life, they're all useless. As soon as you see that it is all useless, sahasā vipaścit, that is actually enlightenment. So as soon as we find, by the guidance of spiritual master, bona fide spiritual master, by the guidance of Kṛṣṇa personally, as soon as we come to this understanding, that we are simply wasting our time. Simply wasting our time, śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. When, in the beginning, when I understood the one song of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, māyā-jāle baddha ho'ye ācho miche kāj lo'ye, Bhaktivinoda says, many times he has said,

māyār bośe jāccho bhese'

Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi

*jīv kṛṣṇa*-dās, ei viśvās,

korle to' ār duḥkho nāi



Very instructive, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's songs, very instructive simple, and Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's. So,



hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,

jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu



*Regretting, lamenting, my Lord I got this human form of life. Unfortunately I have simply wasted. Why? Rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā. It is exactly like drinking poison knowingly. Sometimes we become poisonous unknowingly. Sometimes food poison or something poison. But if one takes poison knowingly, that means he's killing himself. He knows it. Similarly, in this human form of life, if we do not come to this understanding sahasā vipaścit, that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I am simply taking poison, then his life is spoiled, gata-smṛtir vindati tatra tāpān. He will simply be put into miserable condition. That is the nature's way, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dur... [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot escape the stringent laws of material nature. You will go on suffering, suffering. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. You will suffer again and again this body and next body, next body. That is nature's way. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. These rascals, on account of false prestige, false knowledge, false education, he is thinking that I am independent, I can do what ever I like. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham [Bg. 3.27], we have to give up this, then vipaścit, sahasā vipaścit. Otherwise we have to continue the miserable condition of life. Gata-smṛtiḥ, because we have forgotten our real position.



*What is our position? Our position is as described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya*-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our real position is that I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. So gata-smṛtiḥ, I have forgotten that. And therefore, bhuliyā tomāre saṁsāre āsiyā peye nānā-vidha byathā. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song, "My Lord, forgetting You I came in this material world. I am simply suffering." Peye nānā-vidha byathā. These... The same thing is there in the Vedic literature, the same thing is instructed by the advanced, enlightened, liberated devotee. The same thing. This forgetfulness. We have forgotten what is our position. Temporarily, because I have got this body in India, I am thinking, "I am Indian, so my interest is Indian." And somebody is thinking, "My interest is American," "My interest is brāhmaṇa," "My interest is śūdra," "My interest is this, that." We have created so many interests. That has to be rectified.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

*ekeha kuru*-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

[Bg. 2.41]



*Be business*-like. People say talk business-like. Why you are talking nonsense? So Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes." For business man there is one interest, real businessman. Vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. One who is actually interested in business-like way to make some profit arthadam, then there is only interest is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise you will manufacture so many interests. Bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām. One who is not actually businessman, he is a rascal, he creates so many branches of different interests. The only one interest is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. This is our only business. But forgetting this business, gata-smṛtir vindati tatra tāpān. Whatever business we are doing, we are simply suffering. Tāpān āsādya, he is actually tasting miserable condition. Then how they are working? This is the conclusion of this verse, how they are being baffled in every stage, and how they are working so hard.



*We see people are working so hard, day and night. They go to business, or go to office, from morning 5:00 up to ten o'clock at night, they work. You will see in big, big cities, how they are going by the daily, passengers how they are hanging in the buses, going. Why? Why they are working so hard? It is not very simple thing. Why they are working so hard? The answer is maithuna, sex indulgence, that's all. They have no other happiness except that sex intercourse at night, he will enjoy. Therefore he is working so hard. Otherwise there is no other happiness. Everything is zero. The only positive happiness, he's thinking like that. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham [SB 7.9.45]. That is the only happiness, there is no secrecy. The people are working so hard, simply maithunyam agāram. It is a prison house, agāram. Agāram means packed up, shackled with iron chains, and the only happiness is maithunyam agāram. And this is only abominable, tuccham. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. So how he has accepted this lowest class of happiness as the aim of life? Ajñaḥ, rascal. The conclusion is ajñaḥ. So don't become ajñaḥ, be intelligent. And kṛṣṇa yei bhaje, sei baḍa catura. Don't be rascal, don't remain as... Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





761030SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.8

-

Vṛndāvana, October 30, 197



Pradyumna: "The attraction between male and female is the basic principle of material existence. On the basis of this misconception, which ties together the hearts of the male and female, one becomes attracted to his body, home, property, children, relatives and wealth. In this way one increases life's illusions and thinks in terms of "I" and "mine."



Prabhupāda:



*puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī*-bhāvam etaṁ

*tayor mitho hṛdaya*-granthim āhuḥ

*ato gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair

janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti

[SB 5.5.8]



*This is material world, ahaṁ mameti, "I am this," artho 'ham, balavān aham. "I am everything," aham, "and this is mine. This is my property. This is my country. This is my society. This is my nation." Mine, mine, mine. And I, I, I. This is material world. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. The Supreme Personality of Godhead declares clearly that "I am the proprietor." Śāstra says, Veda says, īśāvāsyam idam sarvam: [Īśo mantra 1] it is God's property, everything. We are claiming, our country, "This is my country," but as soon as you go on the beach of the sea, your country finishes, the land. Then whose, the water, whose water that is? But the foolish person: "No, it is in my throne(?), it is mine."



*So this is moha, illusion. We have heard so many times about illusion, this is illusion. Ahaṁ mameti: [SB 5.5.8] "I am this body and everything in my bodily relationship, that is mine." So how it begins? The begins, mithunī*-bhāvam etam, the unity of man and woman. Mithunī-bhāvam. A man is searching after woman, and woman is searching after man. How nature's arrangement to keep the conditioned soul under the laws of nature... Because the conditioned souls are put under the laws of nature, all he has come voluntarily under the laws of nature.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



As soon as we deny to serve Kṛṣṇa, immediately māyā. As soon as we deny to obey the state laws, immediately we are criminals and subjected to the criminal acts, "Go to the prison." This is, we have got practical experience. You cannot defy the laws of the state or the laws of the worlds of the government. If we cannot... You cannot do it. If you do it, then you are punished. That is the statement in every śāstra. Daṇḍaniya. Daṇḍaniya, this daṇḍa is going on, one after another. Daṇḍa means punishment. But we are, because we are in illusion, we are thinking this daṇḍa is advancement of civilization.



*So we should know, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam [SB 5.5.8], this material world is nothing but a false attraction between man and woman. Not only in human society*-in birds, beast, animal, aquatics, trees, plants, everywhere. You will find these pigeons, as soon as one female pigeon is there, and the male pigeon immediately wants to canvass, "Please come, let us unite." You have seen this is nature's way, sparrow. The same things: puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī. So, therefore in the human society, by Vedic knowledge, by education, you have to understand that we are bound up within this material world. What is the cause? The cause is that attraction between man and woman. This is the cause. Puṁsaḥ. Puṁsaḥ means the bhokta, the enjoyer. Here the male and female, both of them are puṁsaḥ, puruṣaḥ, because everyone has got that feeling that "I shall enjoy." Nobody is feeling that "I shall be enjoyed." Everyone is thinking, "I shall enjoy." Nobody wants to be predominated; everyone wants to be predominator. This is the illusion.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to learn how to be predominated, not to become predominator. Just the opposite. And Kṛṣṇa comes personally, and He says that "I am the predominator." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "I am predominator. Why you are trying to be predominator? That is not possible." So as soon as artificially we want to be predominator, immediately the māyā is there.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*Everybody is: "All right, come here." This is the human civilization, to learn that "Because I wanted to become predominator, 'I am the monarch of all I survey. Whatever I survey, that is my property...' " So this inclination, this false inclination, is the cause of our bondage within this material world. We should know that we are ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul." And we learn from Kṛṣṇa that na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin. "I cannot take birth, I cannot die, I am not subjected to sufferings of this material world, but why I am put into this condition?" That is called conditioned soul. That is called intelligence. I am not to be conditioned. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is free, I am also free, because I am His part and parcel. I may be small, very small. A gold particle is gold, that is not other. So all the qualities of gold is there, even it is part. So these things are to be considered, and this knowledge can be acquired. This is called brahma*-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā.



*So unless a civilized man is trained up to understand these problems of life, what is that life? That is animal life. If one is not jijñāsu, if one is not inquisitive about the miserable condition of his life, if he remains satisfied in miserable condition of life, then he is nothing but animal. Animal cannot understand. Animal is being taken to the slaughterhouse, and they are going very easily, and one animal enters the slaughterhouse shed, every animal will enter. In Hindi it is called bheriyagasa (?). One bheri enters, then all the bheris will enter, automatically. He does not know that "Where I am entering? I am entering in this way for being slaughtered." But he has no knowledge. This is going on. This is called illusion. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. We, in Hindi it is called (Hindi). When you are married in India, there is some band party, and the bride, bridegroom is decorated like king, and he is on the horseback and is taken. But one who knows, he says that "This rascal is becoming more rascal." (Hindi) So therefore to check him, not to become a (Hindi), gadā, ass, the first education is brahmacārī*-don't enter. Don't enter this puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam. That is education, that is called brahmacārī. Warning that "It is not good. Better remain brahmacārī," brahmecaratiti brahmacārī. "Remain with Brahman, celibacy. You will be happy." But... That is the first education, brahmacārī. Then one, if he is unable to remain brahmacārī, "All right, take wife, regulated, gṛhastha." Don't remain cats and dogs. That is not human civilization. First of all, education is, "Don't unite. Remain brahmacārī." But if you are not able, "All right, take a wife like a gentleman and live like a gentleman." Ekonari brahmacārī, that is also... If one is satisfied with one woman, then he is also brahmacārī. He is not vyabhicārī.

*So that is regulated, that you must have wife. Not must have, but if you cannot avoid, take one wife and remain as a gṛhastha. And there are so many rules and regulations of gṛhastha life. Gṛhastha life is not that "Whenever I like, we have sex." No, that is not. There is regulated. Once in a month. When there is menstruation, and if the wife is pregnant-then no more sex life. There are so many rules and regulations. Gṛhastha means one who follows the rules and regulation of sex life. That is gṛhastha. Not that simply united, man and woman, and live like animals. No, that is not gṛhastha. That is called gṛhamedhi. Gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha, there are two words. Gṛhamedhi means he does not know the rules and regulation. He thinks that this family, this husband and wife, children and home, that is everything. That is called gṛhamedhi. But gṛhastha means he is as good as a sannyāsī. Gṛhe tiṣṭhati 'pi gṛhastha (?). He is suitable..., he is not suitable to become a brahmacārī, because every facility is there, but regulated. And one who follows the regulative principles, he is āśrama. Either it is gṛhastha āśrama or sannyāsa āśrama, the same thing. Āśrama means-very easily understood in India, there is discussion*-the place where the spiritual culture is cultivated, that is called āśrama. What is the difference between the āśrama and ordinary home? Ordinary home means the..., without any regulative principles, and āśrama means real purpose is self-realization, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if one is unable to accept sannyāsa āśrama or brahmacārī āśrama, that is gṛhastha āśrama. Not that animal āśrama.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore He has said, "If we are eager for advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we can stay in any āśrama. It doesn't matter." Either gṛhastha āśrama or sannyāsa āśrama, it doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, says to Rāmaṇanda,

kibā vipra, kibā śūdra, nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*Sei guru. Who can become guru? Generally a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī, that is, that is, they are forced. Brāhmaṇa is the guru of other varṇas, and sannyāsī is the guru for all varṇāśrama. This is... But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that is social system. If there is a brāhmaṇa, if there is a sannyāsī, one should accept, give preference to him, to accept guru. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "That is not the criterion. One must be well expert, experienced, well aware of the science of Kṛṣṇa. He shall be guru." Not that particularly because one is born in a brāhmaṇa family or one has taken sannyāsa, he is immediately by the dress, or by birth, one can become guru. No. That is going on. Now it is diminishing. Formerly, in India it was the practice. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "It doesn't matter." Kibā vipra, kibā śūdra. Vipra means brāhmaṇa, and śūdra means the fourth class, less than the vaiśyas. So kibā vipra, kibā śūdra, nyāsī kene naya. Nyāsī means sannyāsī. Never mind nyāsī, or without nyāsī, because śūdra cannot be sannyāsī. Without becoming brāhmaṇa, there is no question of becoming sannyāsa. In the Śaṅkara*-sampradāya they are very strict. Unless one is born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is not awarded the sannyāsa. That is the stricture. But according to our Vaiṣṇava, according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, pāñcarātrikī-viddhi, if there is little tendency of the person to become devotee, he is given the chance. Never mind he's born in a śūdra family, a caṇḍāla family. That is sanctioned in the śāstra: kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā [SB 2.4.18]. Anyone. Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. So Nārada Muni, he is a great devotee, he has given allowance to everyone to become a brāhmaṇa, to become a sannyāsī. First of all he must be trained up to become a brāhmaṇa, then sannyāsī. This is a fact. Without becoming a brāhmaṇa, there is no question of sannyāsa.



*So these regulative principles are there. So what is, what is the big plan behind these regulative principles? The big plan is: here is the attraction, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam*-to cut down this attraction between male and female. This is the big plan. Otherwise there is no need of the varṇāśrama. Varnāśrama means to train the candidates gradually to become free from this entanglement of man and woman. This is the basic principle. Yoga system is also the same thing. Jñānī, that is also same. Karma also. The karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, that is also, one has to take sannyāsa at the ultimately, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13], gradually, if one cannot take it immediately.

*So this is the training of Bhagavad*-gītā. This is the training of Bhāgavata. Everywhere the Vedic principle, the first principle is that we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. In the previous verse we have already studied, gata-smṛtir vindati tatra tāpān, because we have forgotten what is our position. Gata-smṛti. Smṛti means memory. There is one word, alpa-medhasām, and there is another word, su-medhasam. These words are there, tad-bhavati alpa-medhasām, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are trying to be happy in this material world, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ... [Bg. 7.20]. They, people generally, they are kāma, this kāma, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī, this is kāma. This kāma is manifested in different ways. The actually the central point is kāma. So that when that kāma is fulfilled Because a man is searching after woman and woman is searching after man, when they unite, then the kāma becomes hard knot, very tightly. When they are separated, there is chance of not being tied, but as soon as they are tied by marriage or by some way or other, then tayor mitha hṛdaya-granthim āhur. Hṛdaya-granthim. We are already attracted to these things, and when it is united, then we see practically in our Indian families that when the boy is grown up and the girl is grown up, the father-mother unite them by marriage system. Everywhere. But India still going on. Why? Because unless he is married, he'll not get attracted to this material life.

*So the father and mother's duty is to unite them so that they may not be spoiled, they may not be like cats and dogs. At least there will be some regulative principles they will follow. But the bondage is, as soon as they are united, the economic development, ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair [SB 5.5.8], then searching after: "Now we must have an apartment, so to..." Either you construct a house or rent a house, anyway money is required, so you will be enthused to earn money. "I have got wife, I have to keep nicely, I have to eat nicely, I have to give her dress, and so on, so on." So first of all, get one apartment or house, ataḥ gṛha. Then how to maintain the house. Formerly there was no other business except that agriculture. Agriculture, that is the economic, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. We have to eat, so grow food grains. So where shall I grow my food grains? Not on the roof, but I must have some land, ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra, land is wanted, ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra. Then putra-hīnaṁ gṛhaṁ śūnyam, family life, married life, but there is no son. That is another troublesome There are so many married life, they haven't got son, children*-they are very unhappy. They spend so much money to get a children. They go to the saintly persons and beg blessing, "Give us one children, one child." There was one great big man long ago, he had no child, so he came to my Guru Mahārāja and he offered, "Guru Mahārāja, if I get a child, I can give you the whole estate." So these are natural demands. First of all husband and wife and child, then apartment, then land, then friends, then money, in this way we become entangled more, ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. So instead of sukhera lagiya ei ghara bandhun, I became a householder for happiness, agune puriya gela, now there is blazing fire. Sukhera lagiya ei ghara bandhun agune puriya gela. And there is another, ravana hoila ithe gatila janja: "I wanted to be happy in this way, but it has become an embarassment." So this is going on.

*So we should not be entangled as far as possible. It is not possible, very, very difficult, but if it is possible we can..., there is brahmacārī. This is tapasya. Because we have begun these verses, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Tapasya. That tapasya begins, tapasā brahmacāryeṇa, brahmacārī [SB 6.1.13]. That is tapasya. So if possible we should try to remain. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice if we accept Kṛṣṇa very seriously, with Kṛṣṇa anyone, either man or woman, we can remain very happy with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can become my friend, Kṛṣṇa can become my husband, Kṛṣṇa can become my son*-whatever you want. So in this way, if we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we can save ourselves, janasya moho 'yam. In this illusory galaxy of illusory, this material world, we may be saved, and that is wanted that we have to give up the attraction for this material world. Then there is possibility of spiritual advancement. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is canvassing personally that "You give up all these plans, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That will save you from this precarious position of material world, threefold miseries, suffering after suffering after suffering."

Thank you very much. (end)



761031SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.9

-

Vṛndāvana, October 31, 1976



Prabhupāda:



*yadā mano*-hṛdaya-granthir asya

karmānubaddho dṛḍha āślatheta

tadā janaḥ samparivartate 'smād

muktaḥ paraṁ yāty atihāya hetum

[SB 5.5.9]



So the conclusion is given here. One should be completely satiated from this attachment of sex. Then he is liberated. Liberation means no more material life, and the basic principle of material life is sex. Therefore whole Vedic civilization is based on to train people how he becomes free from sex desire. The great emperor Yāmunācārya, he gave his experience how he became liberated from sex desire,



*yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravinde

*nava*-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*Since, he gives his experience, "Since I have given my mind and heart in the service of yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravinde, at the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and I have increased my transcendental, blissful life by rendering such loving service, since then even if I think of sex life, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ, tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne, even sex life, thinking of it, it becomes so abominable that I spit on it." So this is the test of advancement of Kṛṣṇa conscious life.



*Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He delivered Jagāi*-Mādhāi... This Jagāi-Mādhāi was debauch, drinking, illicit sex, meat eating and these things, degradation. These four principles are the four pillars of degradation. Therefore we prohibit. That if you want to make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you must give up these four principles. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu made this condition, that if you promise that you will give up these four principles of sinful life, then I will accept you. Never mind whatever you have done in the past. Every man is sinful, there is no doubt about it, more or less. That is not disqualification. If he agrees to give up that, then immediately he becomes liberated. That is Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad..., ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Liberation is not very difficult. It can be obtained in one minute, provided you want to take it. Just like Kṛṣṇa says,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*So, if you are free from the resultant action of sinful life, then you are liberated. If you get shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and do not act in such a way that you again fall down, then you are liberated. Liberation means, we have several times discussed, hitvā anyathā*-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Our svarūpa means original, constitutional position is jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as we place ourselves in our original place, then you are liberated immediately. If we determine, decide finally, that we shall now continuously vehemently (?) fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very simple thing.



*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is described by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. That's all. Always think of Me, man-manāḥ, and bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, be ready always to serve Me. Bhakta means, where there is bhakti and Bhagavān. Then bhakta. If there is no Bhagavān, and there is no activities to serve Bhagavān, there is no bhakta also. They are demons. So bhakta means there must be Bhagavān. Sevya, sevaka, and sevā. Sevya sevaka sevā, three things. Sevya means who is to be served, the master, sevya. And sevaka means the servant. If there is master and servant then there is sevā. This sevā is called bhakti. So, here mano-hṛdaya-granthir asya karmānubaddho dṛḍha āślatheta. When he decides no more these things. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam. When we understand that I am becoming more and more implicated, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam [SB 5.5.8], by this sex desire I am becoming more and more implicated. This implication is engaging me more and more in karma, karmānubaddha. When we understand this, and try to get free from this business, then we become eligible for going back home back to Godhead. Tadā janaḥ samparivartate 'smād. Samparivartate, returns to his original position, asmāt. And when he turns back towards back home, back to Godhead, then he is mukta. That is liberation.

*Mukti is described here. It is not very difficult simply we have to decide that it is enough, no more. Then muktaḥ paraṁ yāty atihāya hetum. This is the hetu. We are baddha, conditioned. This is the ato gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam. So long we shall try, because people are after this gṛha apartment or home, kṣetra land, gṛha, kṣetra, suta children, āpta friends, vitta wealth, riches, the basic principle is that, maithunyam, agāram ajñaḥ vindati tāpān. This is very important point. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, one is trained up how to give up this ideas, concoction. That is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, ultimately sannyāsa. No more. And ultimately, sannyāsa also is not the perfectional stage. Sannyāsa is also practice, how to come to the perfectional stage. The perfectional stage is to be engaged practically, not theoretically, engaged in the service of the Lord, according to his capacity. Not that everyone will be able to do everything, that is not required.

*Kṛṣṇa is not stereotyped, that He has to be served in this way only. No, Kṛṣṇa can accept service in so many ways. There are dvādaśa*-rasa, akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Just like Kṛṣṇa is enjoying when Bhīṣmadeva was piercing His body with the arrows. He was enjoying. This is also rasa. Bhīṣma, purposefully, he knows Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, still, he is devotee, he was giving Him pleasure by throwing arrows on His body. So Kṛṣṇa takes pleasure in that. Kṛṣṇa does not take pleasure only when you throw rose flowers. He can take pleasure when you can pierce. If you are actually able to do that. So that is Kṛṣṇa.

*So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. You have to know how Kṛṣṇa will be pleased, then you are perfect. That you have to practice, first of all, in the vidhi*-mārga, according to śāstra, according to the instruction of guru. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya tinete koriyā aikya. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. Ādau gurvāśrayam. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. To accept guru means to be inquisitive. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu that, "I was minister. I was implicated in material activities. You have relieved me from this implication. Now please tell me what I have to do." Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī was given instruction for two months continually, what to do now. So that is called sad-dharma-pṛcchā. Not that a fashion, I have made guru, I have accepted guru, my business is finished. No, sad-dharma-pṛcchā, the disciple must be ready to ask. Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was a minister, he resigned the post. That does not mean he was silent, stopped all work. He was asking, "What I have to do?" This is sad-dharma-pṛcchā and Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered him to come to Vṛndāvana and renovate the vṛndāvana-līlā.

*This place, before Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advent, this city, or this whole Vṛndāvana area, Rādhā*-kuṇḍa it was all field only, agricultural field. Nobody knew where Kṛṣṇa had His pastimes. So it was the direction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu that this is Rādhā-kuṇḍa, this is this, this is this, and the Gosvāmīs they did it. That was it. Not that they came here... Although they were sitting underneath a tree (coughs). Raghunātha (?) Gosvāmī had no opportunity to come to a nice temple like this. They came when the whole thing was only agricultural field. But they constructed gradually the Madana-mohana's temple, the Govindajī's temple, the Rādhā-kuṇḍa. They engaged fully, writing books, and establishing temples. Then after them others, big, big...

*Just like first of all, Mahārāja Mansingh, he carried out the order of Rūpa Gosvāmī. He spent so much, in those days, lakhs and crores of rupees. You have seen the Govindajī's temple, broken. It is not possible to construct such a temple at the present moment. But is was done by the order of Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī. It is the system, if you want to see a saintly person, you must go there to serve him. Not that simply asking, "Give me your blessing." And, "Why, are you worthy for blessing?" Cheap blessing. And blessing also, they do not know what is blessing. Blessing, they think that "I have got some disease, if the saintly person gives me some blessing, I will be relieved from this disease." Now why don't you go to the doctor? But you go to saintly person for curing your disease. This is anyābhilāṣitā, that they do not know even how to approach a saintly person. So Mansingh was very important man, he was the commander*-in-chief of Akbar, and he approached Rūpa Gosvāmī, "What can I do for you." So, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he did not require that temple, but he wanted to engage this rich man to the service of the Lord and he asked him that, "You construct a temple like this." Rūpa Gosvāmī was living very humbly, you know at the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, his bhajanāśrama. He did not require a temple. But we are making members. Why? The idea is they'll spend the money for nothing in sense gratification. Take some money from them and engage in constructing temple. This is our conscious...

*Not that we want to live in big palatial building and take subscription from others. No, this is not our policy. He'll spoil the money in sense gratification, so try to engage him. This is the policy. And exactly following the footprints of Gosvāmīs, we do not require any money. We, we are quiet confident Kṛṣṇa will supply all the necessities. But to engage the whole world who are spending money in so many rascaldom way, if that money is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll get a chance. This is called ajñāta*-sukṛti. He does not know how he is making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ajñāta, it is unknown to him. But the person who is trying to induce him to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is his friend, real friend. They are misunderstanding that these people are exacting money by force. Even it is done by force, it is good for the person who is contributing. But you should not use any such means, people will misunderstand.

But the policy is that his money, which is accumulated for sense gratification... In Western countries they accumulate millions of dollars and at the last moment he gives to his dog. (laughter) There are many instances, you know better than me. He has no, nobody even, because they do not marry, no children, no friend, so the dog is the best friend in Western country. Every gentleman must have this best friend, pet dog. So ultimately, because there is nobody to give, he gives it to the dog. Makes a will that my dog will get it and they'll give him jewelry, ornaments and so on, so on, so on. We have got practical experience, the big palace which we have purchased in Detroit, the man did not marry, so ultimately he bequeathed the whole estate to the dog. (laughter) And there is a tomb of the dog. (laughter)

*So, one has to do it. If he does not do it for God, then he will have to do it ultimately to the dog. So better, so long you have got money, spend it for God. San*-nimitte varaṁ tyāgo vināśe niyate sati(?). This is the instruction of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, that whatever money you have got, it will be spent. You cannot keep it. Either the money will go from you, or you have to go from the money. You cannot keep together. That is not possible. If you don't spend the money for Kṛṣṇa, if you keep it, that "I shall see it. I shall lick up this money and become happy..." Kṛpaṇa, that those who are miser, they do not spend money for Kṛṣṇa but they see the money. Therefore it has become a problem for us, how to spend the money. How to spend the money for Kṛṣṇa, that is our policy. We do not want to keep money. We cannot keep, that is not possible. Somebody will take it. Ultimately the government will take. Better spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Spend it for Kṛṣṇa that is the right use. San-nimitte varaṁ tyāgo vināśe niya... Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he was great politician, he is advising that if you have got money, spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Don't keep it. Spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Why? It will be spoiled. Today or tomorrow it will be spoiled. Somebody will take and spoil it. Better, if you spend it for Kṛṣṇa, at least your service will be recognized. Kṛṣṇa will see that this man is spending his hard-earned money for Me. That is called ajñāta-sukṛti. This service to Kṛṣṇa, this inclination, does not arise unless one is very, very, good asset he has got.

*Catur*-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Who comes to kṛṣṇa-bhajana? Sukṛtina. Not ordinary man, sukṛtina. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. The duṣkṛtina, he will never come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15], lowest of the mankind, full of sinful activities. How they can come to Kṛṣṇa? It is not possible.

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



These are the qualification. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. So there are many authoritative statements. Na janma koṭibhiḥ sukṛti tatra laulyam ekalaṁ laulyaṁ na labhyate janma koṭibhiḥ sukṛti(?). This desire that I shall serve Kṛṣṇa, it is not ordinary thing. Na janma koṭibhiḥ sukṛtibhir labhyate. But it is possible if we accumulate this sukṛti, all right little service, little service, little service. Therefore the preacher's business is to engage these fools and rascals, who are very enthusiastic in the activities of sense gratification. If they are somehow or other engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, they accumulate sukṛti, sukṛti.



*Another place it is said that, kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Puṇya, sukṛti, little, little, little, when it is accumulated, then they get the chance of talking with Kṛṣṇa, playing with Kṛṣṇa, dancing with Kṛṣṇa. That is possible. It is not mythology. The rascals, they think it is mythology. It is not mythology, it is fact. But it is mythology or imagination for the non-devotees. For the devotees, it is practical. So this is the muktaḥ paraṁ yāty atihāya hetum. That bhaktiṁ parāṁ bhagavati pratilabhya kāmaṁ hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ. Bhaktiṁ parāṁ pratilabhya. That is conclusion of when Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired about Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā. Kṛṣ... Parīkṣit... Śukadeva Gosvāmī replied that "If one is actually qualified to hear about rasa, vikrīḍitam idaṁ ca vraja-vadhūbhir viṣṇoḥ. These activities with Lord Kṛṣṇa and the vraja-vadhūbhiḥ, if it is properly spoken and heard, then the result will be that hṛd-rogaṁ kāmam apahinoti. The material disease, kāma, lusty desire, will be finished, no more. And bhaktiṁ parāṁ bhagavati pratilabhya kāmaṁ hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ. Very soon he will be dhīra. No more kāma. This is the result. Not that after hearing rāsa-līlā, "Oh, let me imitate. Let me also dance with young girls and enjoy." This is going on. Rascal. Māyāvādīs they do that. Perhaps you know. There are so many instances. But actually, the result will be this hṛd-rogaṁ kāmam acireṇa dhīraḥ. No more desire. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. (end)





761101SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.10-13

-

Vṛndāvana, November 1, 1976



*Pradyumna: "O My sons, you should accept a highly elevated paramahaṁsa, a spiritually advanced spiritual master. In this way, you should place your faith and love in Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You should detest sense gratification and tolerate the duality of pleasure and pain, which are like the seasonal changes of summer and winter. Try to realize the miserable condition of living entities, who are miserable even in the higher planetary systems. Philosophically inquire about the truth. Then undergo all kinds of austerities and penances for the sake of devotional service. Give up the endeavor for sense enjoyment and engage in the service of the Lord. Listen to discussions about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and always associate with devotees. Chant about and glorify the Supreme Lord, and look upon everyone equally on the spiritual platform. Give up enmity and subdue anger and lamentation. Abandon identifying the self with the body and the home, and practice reading the revealed scriptures. Live in a secluded place and practice the process by which you can completely control your life air, mind and senses. Have full faith in the revealed scriptures, the Vedic literatures, and always observe celibacy. Perform your prescribed duties and avoid unnecessary talks. Always thinking of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, acquire knowledge from the right source. Thus practicing bhakti*-yoga, you will patiently and enthusiastically be elevated in knowledge and will be able to give up the false ego."



Prabhupāda:



haṁse gurau mayi bhaktyānuvṛtyā

*vitṛṣṇayā dvandva*-titikṣayā ca

sarvatra jantor vyasanāvagatyā

*jijñāsayā tapasehā*-nivṛttyā

[SB 5.5.10]



*So this is called regulative principle. In the previous verse, it was recommended that karmānubaddho dṛḍha āślatheta. This attachment, karmānubaddha, for this material world, everyone is busy*-we have discussed many times-from morning till late at night, and night also, they are busy. Big, big factories, they are working day and night, one shift, other shift. That has become the criterion of civilization. Formerly it was less, because this ugra-karma... These factories means ugra-karma, unnecessarily severe, hard work. Unnecessarily. We have seen in Detroit, they are manufacturing one Ford, manufacturing Ford, simply wheels of the motorcar. Huge stock wheels. And somebody is manufacturing tire, huge stock of tire, and they are giving estimate: "Up till now, so many millions of tire we have manufactured." Well, you know all this. It is in your country. And then there are so many motor parts, there are three thousand small parts. So big, big factories, they are working to manufacture the parts of the motorcar, different parts of the motorcar, day and night working. And ultimately, they are preparing one car, and people are using huge quantity of cars. This is called karmānubaddha, unnecessary, ugra-karma.



*Transportation is required, but we see from Kṛṣṇa books that the inhabitants of Gokula... There was a meeting headed by Nanda Mahārāja's young brother, Upananda, and all the villagers, they assembled together. They discussed that "Our Kṛṣṇa is being repeatedly attacked by the asuras, and it has become very troublesome. So let us leave this place." They are villagers. They thought it wise that "Because we are in this village, some of the demons, they are coming and disturbing." So they are villagers... Immediately Nanda Mahārāja agreed, "All right, let us leave this place." So immediately, they transferred the whole village with their possessions, cloth or something, everything, within one hour. And they transported by the bullock cart to Nandagrāma. That means, the idea is the whole village was transferred from one village to another within very short time. So the transport is required, the transport by bullock carts. The bulls are there. They can be used for transport. Or the asses, they can be used for transport. But... And the camels can be used for transport. There are so many animals. So advancement, and big, big kings, royal families, they have got their transport service by keeping elephants and horses. They can get on the back of the horses and get yourself there. So nature's arrangement, God's arrangement is there. Transport is required in the human society, but you can utilize so many animals for your purpose. But at the present moment, ugra*-karma. The transport is there, but they have manufactured big, big buses for transport, big, big cars, and the animals, they are now killed and eat. That's all. This is civilization. This is civilization. Not to reduce the labor, but increase the labor. Therefore they are called ugra-karma, jagataḥ hita, and that will create disastrous condition of the human society. This is discussed in Bhagavad-gītā.

*So our this simple living... We are introducing the simple living, that go to the village, have sufficient food grains and milk, and the experiment is successful in the Western countries, in New Vrindaban, in Philadelphia, in New Orleans. So now the leaders of European and American countries, they are threatened: "This kind of civilization, if it is advanced, then where he'll stand?" This simple living... In Australia, one psychiatrist, he remarked that "If this kind of simple living is introduced, then where you stand?" So they want ugra*-karma. They want to work day and night in the factories, and to pacify themselves, they immediately require drinking, illicit sex. Thence, by working on motorcars, they have no enough food, they want to eat meat, kill animals; and to digest the meat, he must drink. One after another. One after another.

*So this ugra*-karma, they have introduced, but they are not happy. Because they are fools, they do not know their happiness is different. It cannot be had from the ugra-karma. Therefore here it is said, sarvatra vyasana? What is that? Jantor vyasanāvagatyā, sarvatra jantor vyasanāvagatyā. Your material civilization, wherever you advance materially, there is trouble. Not only on this planet, but in other planets also, I mean higher planets, where they live for many millions of years and their standard of happiness... Of course, these rascals, they are finding only stones and rocks in other planets. They have got everything only in this planet. And you have to believe them. Wherever they are going, in the moon planet or in the Mars planet, what do they see? Simply rocks and sands. But that is not the fact. Each and every planet is full of living entities, janatā(?). That is the statement in the... Everywhere, every planet, there are different kinds of living entities. Just like we see in this planet also, the Europeans are of different features, the Americans have different features, India different features, Africa different features. So there are varieties of living continent, varieties of living entities, but no planet is vacant. That is not the fact. This is rascaldom. They are declaring the planets are vacant; only their father's property here, that is full of living entities. This is nonsense. This is nonsense.

*Therefore it is said, sarvatra jantor vyasanāvagatyā. Sarvatra, everywhere, there are living entities and there are sufferings. Not only living entities. As there are sufferings here, three kinds of miserable conditions, even that will continue. Ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. That is statement of Kṛṣṇa. Even you go to the Brahmaloka. Not that Brahmaloka is better. Why there are so many, ananta-koṭi, planets? Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi: [Bs. 5.40] not only one universe but many millions and trillions of universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Koṭiṣu. In each and every brahmāṇḍa, ananta-vasudhā. Vasudhā means the living places. Vibhinna, ananta yad... Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Bhinnam, the climatic, atmospheric position is different. Not that it is vacant. Bhinnam. Vasudhādi-bhinnam. Just as moon planet, that atmosphere is different. Otherwise how it is possible that the moon planet, it is so nice, soothing rays is coming? And why not from the sun? The sun is differently constructed, different rays. It is God's arrangement. In daytime you require sunshine, and you become tired, so at nighttime there is very soothing moonshine. You becomes pacified, cleansed, soothing. Why the sun and the moon, if they are vacant or something, like that...? They do not know vasudhādi-bhinnam. Each and every planet is differently constructed. They do not know. These rascals, they are passing as scientists and simply giving this conclusion, that "Every planet is full of dust and rocks." If dust and rocks, then why from the sunshine so much heat is coming, and why from the moonshine so soothing and pleasing shine is coming? These rascals, they do not know. And they are passing as scientists. I call them directly rascals, simply, set of rascals. They have never gone to the moon planet. They do not know what are the different position of the different planets. Simply they are, I mean to say, cheating people to get good salary. That's all. And in the name of scientist.

*But you should know from the Vedic literature the position. You should know that each and every planet is full of different types of living entities, and in the higher planetary system, the standard of living may be very... Not maybe. It is mentioned, thousands and thousands of times better than this planet. They... This is called Bhūrloka, then Bhuvarloka, then Svargaloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapoloka, Satyaloka, Brahmaloka-these are different higher planetary system*-and each loka, the standard of happiness is thousand times better than the earth. This is the position. And Kṛṣṇa says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ. And similarly down, there are different lokas-Tala, Atala, Talātala, Vitala, Sutala, like that. This is the constitution. But here Ṛṣabhadeva says that anywhere you go, the threefold miseries of material existence, that will continue. You cannot get free. Even Brahmaloka, the Brahmā, he is subjected to die. He is also undergo the principles of death, and what to speak of others. Nobody will exist here. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16].

*So we should know that, that we are trying to improve our material condition*-it doesn't matter you are now a poor man, and by doing something you get, I mean to say, great amount of wealth. That does not mean that you are free from dangerous condition of life. That is not. Sarvatra. Either in this planet, or in other planet, or this condition, that condition, the threefold miseries, adhyātmika, adhidaivika, and adhibhautika, and these miseries, and janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi... Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Kṛṣṇa never says that "Within this universe, if you go to the heavenly planet, then you can avoid janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi." Never says. Nobody says. Kṛṣṇa says, "Even you go to the heavenly planet," ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ, "the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, they are everywhere; you cannot avoid." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. "But if you come to Me," paraṁ dhāma, "then you can avoid."

Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Here, everywhere you'll find duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. Just like I was reading last night that Bṛhaspati's wife is kidnapped by Candra. The Bṛhaspati is the spiritual master of the demigods, and his wife was kidnapped by Candra. He is also one of the demigods. Just see: the sex and lusty desires are so strong, even in the higher planetary system. And that is the cause. That is the cause. Here it is said, liṅgaṁ vyapohet kuśalo 'ham-ākhyam. This false ego is the cause of our miserable condition in this material world. Material world is miserable, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15], this material world. One ant is living, say for one day, and I am living for hundred years, and Brahmā is living for millions of years. That does not mean any one of us is free is from the miserable condition of this material world. Nobody. Therefore this material world is called duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15].

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



That is saṁsiddhi, that if you become able how to become free from this encagement of material body, liṅgaṁ vyapohet. Therefore the endeavor should be how to give up this material body and be situated in our spiritual status, and that will give us...



*So for that there are so many practices, regulative principles, mentioned here. The first thing is haṁse gurau mayi bhaktyānuvṛtyā. This is religion. Ādau gurvāśrayam. If you do not get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus. If you, by good fortune, if you get the association of a guru, qualified haṁsa, paramahaṁsa... Paramahaṁsa guru means sannyāsī's last stage is paramahaṁsa. Kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājakācārya, and paramahaṁsa, these are the different stages. When one takes sannyāsa, he lives outside the village in a kuṭī, in a cottage, and the family members goes and delivers him the food, because he is not practiced. So in the beginning, he keeps up this association of neighborhood or family, but he is not practiced. He therefore lives outside the village, and if somebody gives some food, he eats. Then when he becomes experienced, then he does not accept food from one, either his own home or one home. He takes foodstuff from many homes: "Give me a little piece of cāpāṭi." So somebody gives half, because they are also not overburdened. If they have to deliver, so many sannyāsīs come, and sumptuous food, then how the gṛhastha will provide? Therefore though... They do not overburden. There may be other sannyāsīs, therefore little only. Madhupuri. The Gosvāmīs practiced this madhupuri in Vṛndāvana. They lived, but they would take little only from the house. This is called bahūdaka. Then when he has practiced more, he travels all over the world, parivrājakācārya. And when he is fully experienced, then, in spiritual life and everything, then he is paramahaṁsa. So one must find out a guru who is paramahaṁsa. Neither kuṭīcaka, nor bahūdaka, nor parivrājakācārya. Paramahaṁsa. So in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta also, Lord Caitanya says, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. This bhakti-latā-bīja can be obtained through the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. Here Ṛṣabhadeva, who is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, therefore He says mayi, haṁse gurau mayi. You cannot jump over Kṛṣṇa. "Well, I know Kṛṣṇa. I shall go to Kṛṣṇa directly, without guru." There are many rascals, they say like that. No, that is not possible. First of all guru, then Kṛṣṇa. Haṁse gurau mayi, bhaktyānuvṛtyā.

So these are description, this is the beginning. If we actually practice the description of the prescription given in the śāstra, then it will be possible that, as it is said, karmānubaddho dṛḍha āślatheta. Then our strong desire to enjoy this material world in different way, that will be slackened. That is wanted.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





761102SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.14

-

Vṛndāvana, November 2, 1976



Pradyumna: "As I have advised you, My dear sons, you should act accordingly. Be very careful. By these means you will be freed from the ignorance of the desire for fruitive activity, and the knot of bondage in the heart will be completely severed. For further advancement, you should also give up the means. That is, you should not become attached to the process of liberation itself."



Prabhupāda:



*karmāśayaṁ hṛdaya*-granthi-bandham

avidyayāsāditam apramattaḥ

anena yogena yathopadeśaṁ

samyag vyapohyoparameta yogāt

[SB 5.5.14]



*So, the bhakti*-yoga process is described in the previous verses. Real purport is, karmāśayam, how to be free from karmāśayam. So long our mind will be absorbed in karmāśayam, then there is no question of becoming free from this material body. Karmānubandhaṁ na mucyate deha-yogena tāvat. This is already advised, the whole purpose is how to make the spirit soul from the bondage of contamination of repetition of birth and death. That is the purpose of human life. Karmāśayam, everyone is trying to become happy by working hard and getting the result. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ, not only here, but also in other planets up to the Brahmaloka, this process is going on. And to counteract this process, in the previous three verses it has been explained how one can gradually become relieved. The first process is recommended, haṁse gurau mayi bhaktyānuvṛtyā.



*So this is the Vedic injunction. If we want to understand this science... It is science, it is not sentiment. Bhakti*-yoga is not sentiment, it is a science. Therefore we have to take it from authorized Vedic instruction. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has advised that science means you have to take it from the Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means there is no mistake, there is no cheating, there is no imperfect senses. Everything is perfect. So science means, which is perfect knowledge. Not perhaps, it may be, that is not science, theory. Theory is not science. Science, the most important items of science is observation and experiment. First of all to study the situation by observation, and then practically, when you are able to make an experiment, then it is science. Otherwise, theoretical knowledge has no meaning.

*So in order to know that science, one has to approach a perfect teacher. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Here also it is said, gurau haṁsa. Haṁse gurau mayi. The mayi is also significant. That means, paramahaṁsa guru means, he's as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because he does not deviate from the instructions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the symptom of guru. Guru does not deviate from the instruction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He does not manufacture something new, novel. No, the same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, although He is the speaker, millions of years ago He instructed the science to the Sun god, and again when He was instructed to Arjuna, He said that, "I am instructing the same thing." Sa evāyaṁ purātanaḥ. Not that on account of change of time, the instruction has been changed, no. (aside:) What is that exact verse? Sa evāyaṁ purātanaḥ?

Devotee: Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ.



*Prabhupāda: Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Purātanaḥ, not something new. This is nonsense. There cannot be something new. Everything established. Science means, scientific knowledge means, it is not something new. Just like the sun rises from the eastern horizon. So millions of years ago, the sun used to rise from the eastern horizon, and still it is going on. Not that because time has changed, the sun is rising from the western side or northern side, no. Knowledge means... That is Vedic knowledge. Established knowledge. It cannot be changed in any circumstance. That is Vedic knowledge. What was millions of years ago fact, it is fact now. So, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So in order to know that factual knowledge, one has to approach the bona fide spiritual master.



*We have several times explained this, who is bona fide spiritual master, confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā, "You become a guru on My instruction." So those who are affiliated with Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, he is guru. Not anyone else. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Then one may argue that if Caitanya Mahāprabhu is ordering, so anyone can order? No, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not ordering something new. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "Under My instruction you become guru." But the instruction is Kṛṣṇa's, the same instruction, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also does not deviate from kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, what to speak of others. And those rascals who are deviating from the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, how he can become guru? They are interpreting in a different way, how they can become guru? That is not guru. We should simply remember this fact, whether this person is speaking the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, as Rāmānujācārya says, even Śaṅkarācārya.

*He, superficially he might have said something which is not understandable, but he also followed the same thing, bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha. But due to unfavorable time, he had to say about impersonal feature. But ultimately he said, bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindam, bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha mate. You rascal, you just worship Govindam. And this jugglery of words, grammatical jugglery, will not help you at the time of death. Nahi nahi rakṣati dukṛn*-karaṇe(?). If you misinterpret that "With this grammatical addition or grammatical alteration this meaning can be derived." No. That is mal-interpretation. Real understanding is bhaja govindam. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Lord Brahmā, he also says, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. And Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, he is incarnation of Śaṅkara, he also saying, govindam, bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam. And we are following the same thing, so that is guru-paramparā, that is real knowledge. So don't approach a cheater, but actually approach a teacher, not a cheater. Then bhakti-yoga will be... That teacher is guru, and he is representative of Kṛṣṇa. He does not say anything else.

*So bhaktyā anuvṛtyā. Anuvṛtyā means following. Not that I have become more than my guru, I can invent something. No. Bhakti means, sādhu*-mārgānugamanam. You have to follow the sādhu, the ācārya. That is bhakti. Bhakti does not means that I am so learned I can manufacture something. That is rascal. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. That is bhakti. You have to become servant of the servant of the servant of the servant [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Not that at a point you become suddenly very learned scholar, and you do not remain a servant, but you want to become a master, to dictate the guru. That is rascal. That will not help us. Here it is said, bhaktyānuvṛtyā. Bhaktyā, bhaktyā, bhakti means sevā. Bhaja sevayā. When bhakti, bhajata sukti(?). Bhaja means sevayā. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. So we have to understand this bhakti-yoga by bhaktyānuvṛtyā, not otherwise. Not that I am very learned scholar, I can give a different interpretation and... No, that is not bhakti. Bhaktyānuvṛtyā vitṛṣṇayā dvandva-titikṣayā ca.

*Then mat*-karmabhir mat-kathayā ca nityam. This is a very important word nityam, mat-kathayā. The Bhagavān says, "My words," so kṛṣṇa-kathā mat-kathā. Kṛṣṇa says, mat-kathā. We can say, kṛṣṇa-kathā. So kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa is speaking personally Bhagavad-gītā, this is kṛṣṇa-kathā. Kṛṣṇa is speaking the words, that is kṛṣṇa-kathā. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also kṛṣṇa-kathā, it is spoken about Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi, that is paraṁ satyam, kṛṣṇa-kathā. Bhagavān is paraṁ satyam. Paraṁ Brahman. Not only Brahman, Paraṁ Brahman. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are concerned with the brahman-kathā but, we (are) very interested not only (in) brahman-kathā but parabrahman-kathā, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is wanted. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So kṛṣṇa-kathā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is guru. Kṛṣṇa-kathā. So here it is said that, mat-kathā, mat-karmabhir mat-kathayā ca. So..., and how? Mat-karmabhir mat-kathayā ca nityam, twenty-four hours. Nityam means always.

*Not that officially, I attend bhāgavata*-kathā for seven days or ten days in a year, and there are 365 days, and other 355 days, I go to the share market and simply inquire about the raise of this share and that share. That will not help you. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18], then it is bhakti-yoga. This manufacturing of seven days bhāgavata-kathā, it is business. It is not bhāgavata-kathā. In the Bhāgavata comments, there are so many authorized comments, just like Śrīdhara Svāmī, Vīrarāghavācārya, Vijayadhvaja, Viśvanātha Cakravartī, Jīva Gosvāmī, and Giridhārī Gosvāmī, so many. Nowhere it is stated that you hear bhāgavata-kathā for seven days. You will not find. Therefore this seven days bhāgavata-kathā, so far we can understand, it is not authorized. Here also it is said, nityam, mat-kathayā ca nityam. Never you will find seven days. In another place it is said, nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Nityam, you have to hear Bhāgavatam daily. Not that a prescribed method, formality, for seven days. No, that is not authorized. Here it is also said, mat-kathayā, bhāgavata-kathayā ca nityam. Mad-deva-saṅgāt, not in the association of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, no. That will not help us. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says,

*tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vās

janame janame hoy ei abhilāṣ



*To live with the devotees. If we associate with the karmīs or the jñānīs or the yogis, then it will not be possible. Then you will be mislead. Therefore it is said that mad*-deva-saṅgāt. Mad-deva-saṅgāt means one who has absolutely taken the shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, mad-deva. There are many others, of course nobody is deva, deva is Kṛṣṇa. But there are others, demigods. There are thirty-three millions of devas. But Kṛṣṇa especially, He says, mad-deva, one who has taken Kṛṣṇa as the only worshipable deity. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66], that is it. One who has taken such vow, that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], I shall take to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, that is not very easy thing. But, that is the ultimate point.



*Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. That mad*-deva, that Kṛṣṇa, is my worshipable deity only. This conclusion comes after many, many births of culturing knowledge, jñāna, yoga, karma, it is not so easy. Therefore we have to take shelter of such person who has taken Kṛṣṇa as the only shelter, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā [Bg. 7.19]. We have to take shelter of such mahātmā. Not others. Mad-deva these are the different items, mad-deva-saṅgād guṇa-kīrtanān me. Not that now they have invented that, why Hare Kṛṣṇa, we can chant śivo 'ham, śivo 'ham, om, om, kālī, kālī, durgā. They (are) all nonsense. They are all nonsense. Here bhakti-yoga means, here it is, guṇa-kīrtanān me. Not others. You cannot (indistinct), "This is also good, that is also good." No compromise, kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. Just like Gosvāmīs, they said, kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Not others. Utkīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. These are the instructions. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], not of Śiva, not of Durgā, not of any other demigod. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. Here (indistinct) says, guṇa-kīrtanān me.

*So these are the items we should, nirvaira*-sāmyopaśamena putrā jihāsayā deha-geha. This is also one of the important items, that I am executing devotional service, but I have no detachment from my family life. The bhakti-yoga means bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. That is bhakti-yoga. Everyone can test, "How much I have become detached from my, this worldly affection. This is my family, this is my country, this is my society, this is my son, this is my wife, this is my children." This is moha. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8], we have to give up this. If we have not been able to give up this attachment, worldly attachment, that means we are not making any progress. Therefore it is said clearly, deha-gehātmā. Eh? Buddheḥ. What is that? Jihāsayā deha-gehātma-buddheḥ. Ātma-buddheḥ. Deha-gehātma-buddheḥ. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "This is my country," nationalism. "This is my socialism." "I am brāhmaṇa, I belong to the brāhmaṇas," "I belong to the kṣatriyas." "I belong to America." "I belong to India." This is deha-gehātma-buddheḥ, and yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is thinking like that, deha-gehātmā, sa eva go-kharaḥ, he is no better than the cows and the asses, animal. Deha-gehātma-buddheḥ is animal conception. One has to come to understand that "I am not this body, I am not this mind or intelligence." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, Paraṁ Brahman. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7].

*So, in this way if we practice according to the prescription, śāstra*-vidhi, that is wanted. Not that without śāstra-vidhi, you can become liberated. That is not possible. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti [Bg. 16.23], Kṛṣṇa says. And if you give up, śāstra-vidhim, and act according to your whims, then there is no question of perfection. Na sa siddhim avāp..., na sukham, like that. The śāstra-vidhim (indistinct). Rūpa Gosvāmī also advised like that,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātra*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



There are so many they have invented. Just like Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is prescribed in the śāstras, and they have invented so many. Although there is the name of the Supreme Lord, still you have to follow the śāstra. If you say Rāma Rāma Rāma, Rādhe Rādhe Rādhe, Kṛṣṇa, there are so many mentioned. That is also name, but you have to follow the śāstra. Śāstra says:



Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare



*You have to take that. Not that you can say, nitāi*-gaura rādhe-śyāma, hare kṛṣṇa hare rāma, no. Why? Is there any in the śāstra? No, you have invented. What is the value of your invention? You are not perfect. But they like that "It is my guru, I have got some followers, I invent some type of chanting." This is nonsense. You must follow, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You cannot invent. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (break-end)





761103SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.15

-

Vṛndāvana, November 3, 1976



Pradyumna: "If one is serious about going back to home, back to Godhead, he must consider the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead the summum bonum and chief aim of life. If he is a father instructing his sons, a spiritual master instructing his disciples, or a king instructing his citizens, he must instruct them as I have advised. Without being angry, he should continue giving instructions, even if his disciple, son or citizen is sometimes unable to follow his order. Ignorant people who engage in pious and impious activities should be engaged in devotional service by all means. They should always avoid fruitive activity. If one puts into the bondage of karmic activity his disciple, son or citizen who is bereft of transcendental vision, how will one profit? It is like leading a blind man to a dark well and causing him to fall in."



Prabhupāda:



putrāṁś ca śiṣyāṁś ca nṛpo gurur vā

*mal*-loka-kāmo mad-anugrahārthaḥ

*itthaṁ vimanyur anuśiṣyād ataj*-jñān

*na yojayet karmasu karma*-mūḍhān

kaṁ yogayan manujo 'rthaṁ labheta

*nipātayan naṣṭa*-dṛśaṁ hi garte

[SB 5.5.15]



*So there are two kinds of ruler or controller. One is the government, and the other is the teacher. Or guru means spiritual master. Spiritual master can control. The disciples obey the order of the spiritual master out of love. Guror*-hitam. This is brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dānto guror hitam. What guru wants, the brahmacārī has to do, not for his hitam. Just like Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa: śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. So Arjuna, for his personal benefit he did not want to fight, but for Kṛṣṇa's sahitam, hitam, for benefit of Kṛṣṇa, he fought. This is the example. He did not like to kill his kinsmen for his hitam. "Oh, if I kill my kinsmen I'll go to hell, I'll be responsible, this, that..." So many arguments he put forward. That means he was considering his hitam, not Kṛṣṇa's hitam. But Kṛṣṇa wanted that fight, and when Arjuna agreed, "No, no more my hitam. Your hitam," oh, that is wanted. That is wanted. Guror-hitam.



*So there are two different, I mean to say, controller. One is guru and the other is the king or the government. When the... Now it is government. Government or the king, the same thing. Whatever government orders, you have to accept. There is no question of disobedience. So the aim... What is the... Why he should order and why one should accept the order? What is the purpose? The purpose is mal*-loka-kāmo mad-anugrahārthaḥ. This is the ideal life. One should seek the benediction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is the aim of life. Mad-anugrahārthaḥ. And what is the benefit of pleasing Kṛṣṇa? Now, mal-loka-kāmo. He comes back. He is suffering in this material world. The same thing is there in every book of Vedic knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, the same thing stated, aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Two things are there: either you get the mercy of Kṛṣṇa or go to hell. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Two things are there. Aśraddhadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa. Kṛṣṇa comes. Here is also Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, Ṛṣabhadeva. He is instructing. So Kṛṣṇa comes to instruct us. He becomes guru.

*So the aim of life is to go back home, back to Godhead. And we do not know what is the aim of life, why we are suffering. Ke āmi', 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya'. This was the question of Sanātana Gosvāmī. But people have become so animalistic, they cannot understand that they are suffering. They cannot un... The brain has become so dull, rascal, that they do not understand even that they are suffering. The suffering, tri-tāpa-yantraṇā... Now, just like this fan. We don't require it now. Now running of the fan is suffering. But in the summer season it is required. It is pleasing. That means either in the summer or in the winter we are always suffering, this way or that way. The same water, it is pleasing during summer and it is suffering during winter. The water is the same, but it is sometimes suffering, sometimes pleasing. So these things will go on. You cannot stop. That means suffering will go on. You cannot stop it. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. So long we have got this body, we must suffer. This is the truth. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. We are getting different types of bodies, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Each body is for a short period. It will not last forever. But so long it will last, it will be cause of suffering. That we do not understand. This is the ignorance, mūḍha. And this suffering can be ended only by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. The suffering is inflicted by māyā. Bhuṇkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. But there is no education, the people are so dull, rascal, they cannot understand that they are suffering, and the suffering they are accepting as enjoyment. In this way they are rotting in this material world.

*The whole purpose is therefore how to get out of this suffering. Vindate tāpān mūḍha. So the aim of life is how to stop this suffering. The guru or the government should rule over the dependents with this point, with this aim in view. Mal*-loka-kāmo mad-anugrahārthaḥ. These two things required: how to get the pleasure or the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and how to go back home, back to Godhead. This is the aim, not that we are making plan to be happy. Unless we go back home, back to Godhead, there is no question of peace or happiness. This place... We are trying to be happy within this material world by material adjustment. That is not possible. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. These things they do not... They say it is brainwash, brainwash. We are enforcing something by controlling the mind, some ideas, "There is God, and we have to go to back home, back to Godhead." They are accusing us of brainwash, "mental control." But this is the fact. We are not brainwashing; *we are clearing the brain. The rascal brain is full with cow dung. We are clearing. You see? That is our movement. But these rascals are understanding that we are enforcing some idea. What to speak of others, even in our country they do not believe that there is God. Nowadays, not formerly. We have become so rascal: "There is no God," "There is no...," "These are all," what is called, "mythology." "These are mythology ideas*-there is God and there is sin, there is pious activities." Big, big sannyāsīs, they are asking that "Don't care for all this, 'There is God, there is sinful, there is pious.' You can do whatever you like because you are yourself God. This is... There is no pāpa-puṇya. You are immune from pāpa-puṇya because you are God."

So this is going on. But that is not the fact. Fact is different. Therefore, putrāṁś ca śiṣyāṁś ca. Śiṣya... The citizen, they are also śiṣya. Śiṣya means one who is controlled. That is called śiṣya, who is disciplined, disciple. The same meaning. Disciple means one who is controlled, one who is disciplined. So controller is the teacher or spiritual master and the government. So the government rules and regulation, teacher's rules and regulations should be in such a way that the dependent, either the śiṣya or the citizen, they must know that this is not life. This material life is not life. Real life is in the spiritual world. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. That is real truth. And this is... This material world is illusion, illusion, the mirage. We are finding here happiness. Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, there is no happiness." Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: [Bg. 8.15] "Why you are finding out happiness here? It is not possible." Kṛṣṇa personally teaching. This is duḥkhālaym aśāśvatam. "If you don't want it, then come to Me." Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ [Bg. 8.15]. That is mahātmā.

One who is trying to be happy in this material world, he is durātmā; *he is not mahātmā. Durātmā. Durāśayā. Durāśayā or durātmā, the same thing. Durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. These rascals, durātmānam, they are trying to be happy. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. These rascals, they do not know that here there is no happiness. There cannot be any happiness, however you may be expert. Just like if you are thrown in the ocean, so you may be very expert swimmer, but that does not mean you are happy. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānī. This is struggle for existence. These things should come to our brain. It is not brainwash; *it is brain-clearing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you want to end this suffering, then you must wash your brain*-or heart, the same thing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. But they are taking it otherwise. Therefore either the government or the spiritual master, they should not give program, big, big program, plans. Nowadays in material world... In material world this is always. The plan is... There is planning commission by the government. Why? To engage them to work very hard. That is going on. So when you are ruling, controlling, there may be some disobedience. Therefore it is the duty of the spiritual master not to be angry because the disciples or the followers, they are fools. Sometimes they commit mistake; they do not obey. But the ruler, the spiritual master, the government, has to tolerate. And still, vimanyava, sādhava. That is sādhu, vimanyava.

*So itthaṁ vimanyur anuśiṣyād ataj*-jñān. But they are foolish. Ataj-jñān. There is no knowledge. So simply see. Na yojayet karmasu karma-mūḍhān. They have natural tendency to work and get the benefit and make a plan, "How I shall become very rich man. How I shall own so many houses and so many properties, so many lands, so many, and..." Therefore why these people are so busy? Karma-mūḍhān, day and night. Ataj-jñān. They do not know that such persons cannot improve their economic position simply by working hard. That is not possible. Then everyone would have been rich man. In big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, London, New York, everyone is working very hard. Not that in big cities one can get their food easily. No. Everyone has to work. And everyone is working hard. Do you think that everyone is on the same level of position? No. That is not possible. Destiny. Destiny. One man is working hard day and night, twenty-four hours; *simply he is getting two capātīs, that's all. We have seen in Bombay. They are living in such rotten condition that even in the daytime they'll have to a kerosene lamp. In such a place they are living, and so dirty condition. Does it mean that everyone in Bombay is living very luxuriantly? No. Similarly, every city. It is not possible. You cannot improve your economic position simply by working hard. That is not possible. You work hard or not work, whatever is destined to you, you'll get it. Therefore our energy should be utilized that mal*-loka-kāmo mad-anugrahārthaḥ. The energy should be utilized how to please Kṛṣṇa. That should be done. Energy should be utilized for that purpose, not waste energy simply for a false hope that "I shall become happy. I shall do this. I shall do that. I shall make money like this. I..."

*The story of the potter The potter is planning. He has got few pots and he is planning, "Now I have got these four pots and I will sell. I will make some profit. Then there will be ten pots. Then I'll sell ten pots, I'll make some profit. I'll get twenty pots and then thirty pots, forty pots. In this way I shall become millionaire. And at that time I shall marry, and I shall control my wife in this way and that way. And if she is disobedient, then I shall kick her like this." So when he kicked, he kicked the pots and all the pots broke. (laughter) So then his dream is gone. You see? Similarly, we are simply dreaming. With few pots we are simply dreaming that "These pots will be increased into so many pots, so many pots, so many pots," then finished. Don't make imagination, make plan. That is... The guru, the spiritual master and the government should be careful that "These rascals may not make plan. This rascal may not make plan to be happy." Na yojayet karmasu karma*-mūḍhān. This is karma-jagat, this world. This material world is that. They are already inclined, so what is the use? Loke vyayāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityāstu jantuḥ. Just like sex life. Sex life is natural. It does not require any university education how to enjoy sex. They will enjoy it. Nobody... "Nobody is taught how to cry or how to laugh or how to enjoy sex life." There is a Bengali saying. That is natural. You don't require any education for this karma. Now they are making big, big plans to educate people how to work hard. This is waste of time. Educational institution should be for teaching people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, not to become this or that. That is waste of time, because that program will never be successful. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. The nature's law is working Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Whatever...

*Therefore our Vedic civilization is that people are satisfied in his own position, a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Whatever by God's grace he got, he was satisfied. The real energy was utilized how to become eligible to receive mercy of Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted, how to learn how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. That was the end. In India we find not that... The great sages, ṛṣis, they wrote so many books, but they used to live in a cottage. Only the kings, the kṣatriya, because they had to rule over, they used to construct big, big palaces. No one else. They lived very simple life, very simple life. Not waste time for so-called economic development, skyscraper building, subways and so on, so on. This was not Vedic civilization. This is asuric civilization.

*So we have... People are becoming inclined to karma*-sukha(?). So it is a very difficult position to convince them that this is not needed. The real life is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and for that purpose one should undergo austerities, pen... Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. You have to purify your existence. You are suffering. You are not meant for birth and death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. You are not meant for that. Then you are undergoing birth and death and do not know what kind of life you are going to get next life. You have no information. Today you may be very big man and tomorrow you may be a dog. These things going on. They do not know. They simply working hard, making plan to be happy. That is not possible. Therefore it is forbidden. Na yojayet karmasu karma-mūḍhān. Engage them how to acquire Kṛṣṇa's favor. Kṛṣṇa's favor, mad-anugrahārthaḥ. Teach them like that, how. So Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased if you simply... Kṛṣṇa says... Here it is said that mal-loka-kāmaḥ. How one can go to Kṛṣṇaloka or Vaikuṇṭhaloka? Very easy. Very easy. Kṛṣṇa personally says. It is not our manufactured word. Kṛṣṇa said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Do these four things: "Always think of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Manmanā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Become My devotee. Worship Me and offer obeisances to Me," and asaṁśaya, "you'll come." Mal-loka. Very good. Very easy thing. Asaṁśaya. "Without any doubt you'll come to Me." Why do they not accept this proposal of Kṛṣṇa? It is not our manufacture. We are not washing brain. It is Kṛṣṇa's word, that simply by doing four things, manmanā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65], without any doubt. That is required. Kṛṣṇa will be pleased.

*So don't waste your time making material plan, big, big plan. "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." One European gentleman, he translated this Bengali proverb. Baro baro badare, baro baro pet, lanka dingake mata kare het.(?) There are many monkeys. The one monkey, he jumped over the Indian Ocean, went to the other side. So there were other monkeys also. They were asked, "Can you do it?" And mata kare het:(?) "He simply bowed down." So this plan is meant for how to, by chanting "Jaya Rāma,'' I'll jump over the other part of the material world. That is required. Not to work hard to improve your material condition. That will never be possible. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. You cannot get happiness within this material world. Bhramatām upary adhaḥ. Upary adhaḥ means, upari, in the higher planetary system, and down, lower planetary system. We are wandering like this, sometimes in the Svargaloka, sometimes in the Patalaloka, sometimes in naraka, sometimes in heaven. This is going on. Ei rupe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva, guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpa pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. So try to take bhakti-latā-bīja by the mercy of guru, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, and make your life successful. Don't engage yourself in the material fruitive activities for improving your material condition. That will never be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



761104SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.16

-

Vṛndāvana, November 4, 1976



*Pradyumna: Translation: "Due to ignorance, the materialistic person does not know anything about his real self*-interest, the auspicious path in life. He is simply bound to material enjoyment by lusty desires, and all his plans are made for this purpose. For temporary sense gratification, such a person creates a society of envy, and due to this mentality, he plunges into the ocean of suffering. Such a foolish person does not even know about this."



Prabhupāda:



*lokaḥ svayaṁ śreyasi naṣṭa*-dṛṣṭir

*yo 'rthān samīheta nikāma*-kāmaḥ

*anyonya*-vairaḥ sukha-leṣa-hetor

*ananta*-duḥkhaṁ ca na veda mūḍhaḥ

[SB 5.5.16]



*This is the description of the material world. Anyonya*-vairaḥ: simply envious of one another. This is material world: I am envious of you; *you are envious of me. You can extend this familywise, societywise, communitywise, nationalwise, but the basic principle is enviousness, nothing else. Therefore in the beginning of the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is explained that who are fit for accepting this Bhāgavata principle. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitava atra paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. This is meant for the persons who are no more envious, for them. Those who are envious, they have no entrance in the principles of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Paramo nirmat... Because the whole world is based on the principle of enviousness. Anyonya-vairaḥ. And what is the meaning of this enviousness? Sukha-leśa-hetu, temporary happiness. Temporary happiness.



*Now, especially in the modern world... Not only modern world, always. That is the nature of this material world. How much fighting is going on between nation to nation, person to person, community to community. There are so many codes, legal codes. The people go there, fight with one another. Then the United Nation... What is that United Nation? I have already explained many times, assembly of barking dogs. That's all. United Nation. They will never unite. They will go there and barking. Many times we have seen their enviousness. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva*-loka-maheśvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the proprietor of all planets." But we are claiming, "This is my country," "This is India, my country," "This is Pakistan," "This is America," "This is Russia," and fighting. And the proprietor is there; *he is claiming that "This is not yours. It is mine." Still they are. Because why? Ananta*-duḥkhaṁ ca na veda mūḍhaḥ. Rascals. He has no right. Unnecessarily he or they are claiming right and fighting.

You have to do it, because we are placed in a condition of suffering. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. I have given this example many times. Just like in the school the teacher engages two naughty boys to catch the ears of one another. And he is pulling the ear; *he is also pulling the ear. There is competition of pulling the ear. So nature engages them. Jagat ahita ugra*-karma. They have manufactured this ugra-karma world for the annihilation of this world. Russia has discovered the nuclear... What is that? Nuclear weapon? And the Americans, they are finding out the opportunity so, to drop the bomb here and there, and everything will be destroyed. They do not know what is the aim of life. Simply they are engaged in ugra-karma and creating enmity, anyonya-vairaḥ sukha-leśa-hetoḥ. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Prahlāda Mahārāja has also said that śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ: "I am simply thinking of these rascals," vimūḍhān. Here it is said, "mūḍha," and Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "vimūḍha," viśeṣa-rūpeṇa, "particularly mūḍha."

*Prahlāda Mahārāja, Vaiṣṇava, he has no problem. A Vaiṣṇava has no problem. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I have no problem, my Lord," to Nṛsiṁhadeva. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ [SB 7.9.43]. A devotee will be simply satisfied if he has got the opportunity of reading, reciting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam anywhere, any part of the world, sitting down underneath a tree. One who has got education, he can read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But even one has no education*-he cannot read-still he has no problem. He can chant: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. So he can enjoy anywhere. There is a practical example in this connection. While Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was touring in the southern India, in the Ranganātha temple He saw one brāhmaṇa. He was reading Bhagavad-gītā. So many persons were coming and criticizing him, "Well, brāhmaṇa, how you are reading Bhagavad-gītā?" So he did not reply. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu approached him and He saw the brāhmaṇa was reading Bhagavad-gītā and tears gliding down. So He could understand that "Here is a pure devotee." So He asked him, "Well, brāhmaṇa, what you are reading?" So he said, "Sir, I cannot read. I am illiterate. I am illiterate and I cannot read what is Bhagavad-gītā, especially Sanskrit." His neighbors were criticizing him. They knew that "This brāhmaṇa is illiterate, and he is making a show of reading Bhagavad-gītā." So they were criticizing. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He could understand that "Here is a pure devotee."

*So He asked him that "What you are reading?" He said frankly, "Sir, I cannot read. I have no education. Illiterate." "Then? It appears that you are reading something. And if you are illiterate, why you are reading Bhagavad*-gītā?" "No, my Guru Mahārāja said. He knew that I am illiterate, but still, my Guru Mahārāja said that 'You read every day the ślokas of Bhagavad-gītā.' So on account of his order, although I do not know anything what is written there, I am trying to read." "Oh, that's very nice. You are carrying the order of your Guru Mahārāja. But it appears that you are crying also. How you are crying if you cannot read?" "Yes, Sir, that's... Because as soon as I take this Bhagavad-gītā in my hand I see the picture that Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa to place his chariot in the warfield, and Kṛṣṇa is driving the chariot by his order. So this is creating some feeling in me: 'Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, so nice, that although He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is carrying the order of His devotee as servant.' When I feel this, I cry: 'Oh, how Kṛṣṇa is kind. How Kṛṣṇa is merciful.' " So immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu embraced him: "You are reading Bhagavad-gītā. It is not the literacy or education or knowing grammar and putting jugglery of words. That is not reading. If one feels what is the purport of Bhagavad-gītā, that is reading Bhagavad-gītā."

*So it does not depend on literary career. A devotee is simply satisfied if he can think of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants that. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Kṛṣṇa never said that "You become a great paṇḍita or grammarian to read Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." That, if you can, if you have, you can. Otherwise, anyone, even a child, can do this, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. One can come into this temple and offer obeisances. That will also do. Therefore a devotee can be satisfied in any condition of life, provided he can think of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. That's all. That much. So therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "I have no problem." Naivodvije para duratyaya. "I have no problem to cross over the ocean of nescience. That solution is already there. Wherever I am, I shall think of Your lotus feet. That's all." "But you appear to be unhappy." "Yes, I am unhappy." "Why?" Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ: "I am thinking of these rascals who have rejected Your instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā." Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. And they are busy. Like monkeys and dogs they are busy. You will see they are very busy, going here, going there, going there. Just like monkey, jumping from one tree to another, jumping. Wherever he is standing, he will move his arm, everything. But people know that "Here is a monkey." He may appear to be very busy, but people will immediately take a stick: "Go away! Go away! Go away!"

*So our business is like that. We are making big, big plans to be happy like the monkeys. Therefore here it is said that arthān samīheta nikāma*-kāmaḥ. So it is the duty of everyone to do something for his welfare. But here the beginning is lokaḥ svayaṁ śreyasi naṣṭa-dṛṣṭiḥ: "These rascals, they are blind to their real interest." Śreyas means real interest, and preyas means immediate profit. So nikāma-kāmaḥ, sense gratification, is very nice immediately. "I enjoy sex life. This is very nice. Why shall I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Let me enjoy sex." Śreyasi. And preyasi: "This is pleasure." And it is not pleasure; *therefore naṣṭa*-dṛṣṭiḥ. He does not know that this sense pleasure is not his actual pleasure. It is creating different types of miserable conditions. Naṣṭa-dṛṣṭiḥ. He has no eyes. Arthān samīheta nikāma-kāmaḥ. Based on... He does not know, either it is legal sex or illegal sex. There are two kinds of sex life, legal and illegal. Legal is married life sex. That is taken as legal. And without marriage, like cats and dogs in the street or here and there, that is illegal. So legal sex life is still allowed. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, dharmāviruddha-kāmo 'smi. If there is legal sex, one man and woman, married, and only for progeny they get into sex life, that is allowed in the śāstra. But illegal, illicit sex is most abominable. But either illicit or legal, there are so many sufferings. So many sufferings. Illegal-now they are giving opportunity, abortion, killing the child, and so on, go to the hospital. That is also. And behind that, the killing the child, a very sinful, he has to suffer. He does not know. Ananta-duḥkhaṁ ca na veda mūḍhaḥ. He's taking the risk of suffering life after life. Those who are killing the child within the womb, they will be punished. They will also enter within the womb of the mother, and somebody will kill, and again he will enter another mother's womb; *again he'll be killed. So as many child he has killed, he has to go to the womb of the mother to another womb, another. He will never see the light of the world. He'll be killed. This is the punishment. This is the punishment. But he does not know. Ananta*-duḥkhaṁ ca na veda mūḍhaḥ. He does not know how the laws of nature is working, life for life. You have no right to kill any life. Even an ant you cannot kill even. You cannot kill even. If you kill, then you have to suffer.

*These are not stories. These are not stories. There are many incidences in the śāstra. Just like Vidura. He was Yamarāja, incarnation of Yamarāja, but he was cursed by a muni to become a śūdra. Why? Now, one muni was brought in the court of Yamarāja, and he was to be punished by like punishment, sula, piercing the lancet through the rectum and it will come out. So the muni asked Yamarāja that "Why you have put me into this tribulation, this punishment? What is my fault?" The Yamarāja explained that "In your childhood you pierced with a nail through the rectum of an ant. Therefore you must be punished like this." Just see. In childhood playing he pierced. Sometimes we have seen, the children do that. That is also counted. You cannot do any harm to any animal, any living being. You cannot do. But these rascals are regularly killing. Although they have got this human form of body, although they have got intelligence, scientific intelligence, and so*-called, but they do not know how nature's law is working. They do not care to know. They say these are all mythology. But not mythology. It is not mythology. Na veda mūḍhaḥ. They do not know what is the law of nature, that ananta-duḥkham.

*So we should be very, very careful. We are implicating step by step. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. They do not know. This material world means at every step we are creating another difficulty. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. Samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padam. [break] Kṛṣṇa. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. For Him the great ocean of nescience becomes just like vatsa-padam, the water containing with the hoofprints of calves. That is called vatsa-padam. And this place, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. This material world, where there is danger in every step, it is not for them. It is not for them. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Anyone who is desirous of rendering service, dedicates life for the service of Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa demands that. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. For such person, one who has decided, "Yes, I shall fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa," for such person, niṣkiñcanasya... Surrender means he has finished his all material business. No more. No more business. That is called niṣkiñcana. Kiñcana means "something," and niṣkiñcana means that something also nothing. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. There are so many achievement by karma, jñāna, yoga, and so many things. But bhakti means finish this, all this nonsense business, karma, jñāna, yoga. Simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167].

*So for such persons... That is niṣkiñcana. Eta saba chāḍi, haya niṣkiñcana, ekanta bhave naya, kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇa.(?). In Caitanya*-caritāmṛta... So we have to become niṣkiñcana, no more material business, no more. That is called niṣkiñcanasya. Who can take this niṣkiñcana? Bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Unless one is eager to serve the Lord, nobody can be niṣkiñcana. Everyone is a kiñcana, "Something mine, something mine, something mine." So for such person, niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya... Why bhagavad-bhajana is required? Yes, it is most essential, śreya. Śreyasi naṣṭa-dṛṣṭiḥ. We do not know. Kṛṣṇa says that "If you do not come to Me, if you do not accept Me, then," nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, "you will continue the cycle of birth and death." And that means ananta-duḥkham, ananta-duḥkham, one life after one life, one life after one life. This will go on.

*So we should be very, very careful that this human form of life should not be wasted even for a moment. That is real life. There is, by, one śloka by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Avyartha*-kālatvam [Cc. Madhya 23.18-19]. A devotee should always be alert to see, "Whether this time, one moment passed, whether I have wasted it or I have utilized it?" That is, should be, the point. Āyūṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhya svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ. This is also material estimation, that one moment of our life cannot be returned in exchange of millions of dollars, even from material point of view. And those who are advancing in spiritual life, how much careful they should be. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī has given the formula, avyartha-kālatvam. Not a single moment may be wasted without chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (end)



761105SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.17

-

Vṛndāvana, November 5, 1976



Pradyumna: "If someone is ignorant and addicted to the path of saṁsāra, how can one who is actually learned, merciful and advanced in spiritual knowledge engage him in fruitive activity and thus further entangle him in material existence? If a blind man is walking down the wrong path, how can a gentleman allow him to continue on his way to danger? How can he approve this method? No wise or kind man can allow this."



Prabhupāda:



*kas taṁ svayaṁ tad*-abhijño vipaścid

avidyāyām antare vartamānam

dṛṣṭvā punas taṁ saghṛṇaḥ kubuddhiṁ

prayojayed utpathagaṁ yathāndham

[SB 5.5.17]



*So one person is utpathagam yathāndham, another person is vipaścid tad*-abhijñaḥ. Two classes of men generally: one who knows the things as they are and one who does not know what is the value of life, how to make progress. So one does not know and one knows. So naturally there must be two classes of men to make real social progress or any, anything. Actually we see that there are a class of men in the school, colleges, universities, who can teach, and class of men who are taught. So without these two classes of men, how society can make progress? But the modern theory is "classless society." Modern rascal theory is classless society: "There is no need of teacher, or there is no need of higher class, or there is no need of... One class." Therefore they fall down. Even in socialistic country like Russia, first of all they wanted to make classless society. Later on they have made a manager class and worker class, because this is not possible.



*If you want to manage things, there must be two classes of men, and two classes can be divided into so many other classes. Therefore the intelligent way of civilization is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā-sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. There must be four classes. In order to manage things very nicely, you cannot make classless society. Four classes. The most intelligent class, brāhmaṇa, and then next intelligent, the kṣatriyas, and the next intelligent, the vaiśyas, and the last one, who has no intelligence, śūdra. These four classes must be there. Without this division of classes, society, who will guide them? At the present moment, without any class the government has made adult vote. Anyone who is above certain age, say eighteen years or twenty years, he can vote. But there is no class, that "This class can vote; this class cannot vote." There is no such thing. Anyone who is above eighteen years old, he is competent to cast his vote. And people are not educated in this division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. They are all classless.

*Classless means fools, rascals, śūdra. If you classify... Classify means "Here is intelligent class, here is next class, here is next." If you don't classify, that means śūdras. So śūdras, they have got votes. Similarly, what they will elect? They will elect another rascal, that's all. Big rascal. A small rascal and big rascal, that's all. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said, śva*-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Here is our president. Here is our prime minister. But what is he? He is elected by the śūdras, so he is a big śūdra, that's all. How you can expect nice things? If you say, "Now he is elected President, he is so much honored and he's exalted post, His Excellency," so Bhāgavata says, "Yes. This is all good, but by whom he is praised?" Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Just like lion. Lion is very strong animal. He is considered to be the king of the forest. So all other small animals, they are very much afraid of, very respectful. But does it mean because he is lion he is not an animal? He is animal. He may be lion, very powerful, very strong, he can subdue others. But that does not mean he is any advanced intelligent person like brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya. This is going on. The Bhāgavata therefore says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The next line I just forget.

*So anyone, if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a paśuḥ, animal. Because human life is meant for that purpose. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1]. Otherwise he is animal. So this is going on at the present moment, that some small animal accepting one big animal as leader. So both of them, all of them, are animals. But this is not social system. The social system, as Kṛṣṇa says, cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam... [Bg. 4.13]. You cannot violate the laws given by Kṛṣṇa, God. You must have. You must make, train. Just like you are training some men as engineer, some men as medical men, some men as lawyer, some men as technologist. There are so many divisions in the society. Therefore, similarly, if you want to make the human society perfect, then you must have these four classes of men: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. Otherwise there is no possibility. If you make all classes one, very liberal-"Very good idea. There is no classification"-no, there must be classifi... But that classification is not by birth. That is not by birth. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Kṛṣṇa never said, "This classification should be by birth." No. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. By birth everyone is rascal, śūdra. That is to be accepted. Even if one is born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is to be accepted as śūdra, janmanā, by birth. Otherwise why, even a person is born in a brāhmaṇa family, he requires to be educated, he requires to be initiated, sacred thread? Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. There must be saṁskāra. If he is born brāhmaṇa, then where..., there is no need of saṁskāra. There is no need of education. Suppose a person is born the son of high-court judge. Does it mean that he is high-court judge? No. He requires education, he requires training. But he has a good chance to become a high-court judge. Because his father is high-court judge, he knows how to train his sons, how to educate him how to become a lawyer, and he has got influence in government society. He can recommend him. He has got the chance to become a high-court judge. But not that because he is born of a father who is high-court judge, therefore he is high-court judge. That is going on.

*A person born in brāhmaṇa family, if that family is strictly following the brahminical rules and regulation, in the śāstra it is said that in higher section, brāhmaṇa specially, if garbhḍhṇa saṁskāra is not observed the whole family immediately becomes śūdra. They cannot be called even brāhmaṇa family. That is the injunction of śāstra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Daśa*-vidhā-saṁskāra. That must be strictly observed; *otherwise he is śūdra. Śūdra has no saṁskāra. Śūdra has only one saṁskāra*-marriage. And the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they have got daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra. Before birth, when the child is in the womb, there is ceremony. Then when he is born there is ceremony. Then he's little more, little more... Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was born, immediately all the brāhmaṇas came. Jāta-karma ceremony. A child is born. There will be some pūjā, pāṭha, and then there will be horoscope made immediately, in what moment this child is born, what will be his feature. All the brāhmaṇas made immediately horoscope. You'll find in this Bhāgavata. This is called saṁskāra. Not that like cats and dogs they are born without any saṁskāra, and because he is born in a certain family he becomes brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. No.

*So there must be a first*-class man in the society. Śamo damo titikṣa. Where is that educational institution at the present moment that "Here is a school where education is given how to become a brāhmaṇa"? This is Kali-yuga. Nobody will go there. Nobody will go there. If you start a school... I was thinking that now... Just like we are starting this gurukula to train small children how to become brahmacārī. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror hitam. But I am very doubtful whether people will send their children here. Because before starting this movement I wanted some boys from respectable family, that "Give me your one son. I shall train him how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become preacher." Nobody gave me. They said, "Swamiji, what they will be by becom..." Because they have seen the so-called brāhmaṇa begging, no education, and if there is no begging, then stealing, then cheating. So a gentleman sees that "This is brāhmaṇa in the society." You will find in Vṛndāvana so-called brāhmaṇa, paṇḍita, paṇḍas-no education, and they do everything. It is known to everyone. So because there is no training... Paṇḍas, they were guiding the tourists or the visitors. They were trained up brāhmaṇa, paṇḍitas. Now practically higher section of the society, they do not come. One gentleman asked me in Delhi in the beginning that "Swamiji, why you have made Vṛndāvana as your headquarters?" Because they have got a very bad experience. So even the Vṛndāvana city, you see how they are neglected. We are a little far off from the city. You go. How they are neglected city, no up-to-date gentlemen can go there because the culture is lost. And from big, big Gosvāmīs' family they are becoming rogues and thieves because training is not there, training, the first-class man to train them.

*So therefore it is our little attempt that to train some boys to become first*-class character. Śamo damo titikṣa. That is required in the society. Simply all fourth-class, fifth-class men, how the society will improve? That is not possible. And therefore, kas taṁ svayaṁ tad-abhijño vipaścid avidyāyām antare vartamānam. And one who is actually educated in the Vedic knowledge, how he can say that "You are all right"? He cannot say. He gives chance for being trained to be free from the avidyā. Avidyāyām antare. Śarīra avidyā-jāl. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, śarīra avidyā-jāl. This material body is a network of avidyā, ignorance. Śarīra avidyā-jāl, jaḍendriya tāhe kāl. On account of this body of avidyā, ignorance, the blunt senses are simply... They have been described sometimes as kāla-sarpa. Kāla-sarpa indriya-paṭalī durdānta-indriya-kāla-sarpa paṭalī. So therefore yoga system is recommended to control this kāla-sarpa, the indriyas. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Real yoga, ordinary yoga Nobody is getting that yoga-siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi. Generally the so-called yogis, they show some āsana, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, praṇāyāma, but that is meant for controlling the senses. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Without sense control nobody can make any progress in human life. Tapasya. That is called tapasya. The yoga is also another tapasya. Tapo. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13].

So any path you take, the brahmacarya first thing. Without brahmacarya there is no question of tapasya.

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena damena vā

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



This is human life. This is human life, not that upstart, foolish, rascals, śūdras, that is human society. That is dog society. That is not human society. Human society must be intelligent class of men. They will train the other people. Everything is required. The kṣatriya is required, the vaiśya is required, the śūdra is also required. Just like it is given in the śāstra that to keep a fully equipped body there must be head, there must be arm, there must be belly, and there must be leg. Leg is also required, not that simply brain is required. Brain is required to direct the way: "Go this way; go that way." In that sense śūdra is also... Brain cannot walk; *the leg will walk. So the brain will give direction, the hand will give protection. Everything is required. Therefore we have named this "Kṛṣṇa conscious society." "Society" means all classes of men required. But we train them how to make life perfect. That is wanted, not that one*-sided, simply brāhmaṇa. That variety. This is called variety, not nirviśeṣa-vada, classless: "No brāhmaṇa required, no śūdra required." No, everything is required. Everything is required, but they should be properly trained up.



*So one class. First*-class man, first of all teacher, they require. Therefore the brāhmaṇa class must be there, I mean to say, the properly trained-up brāhmaṇa, not by caste brāhmaṇa or... Śamo damo titikṣa... Otherwise where is the ideal class who will teach? And it is the business of brāhmaṇa to teach. Those who are śūdras, avidyāyām antare vartamāna, how they can teach? They cannot teach. Therefore brāhmaṇa business is paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigrahaḥ. Six. Ṣat-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. Still, if he is not a Vaiṣṇava, avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt. If one is qualified brāhmaṇa but..., mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, everything is well equipped, but if he is not a Vaiṣṇava, if he is impersonalist, Māyāvādī, he cannot teach others. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt. He cannot be guru. Sad-vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ. And if a person born in a family of dog-eaters, śva-paca, means caṇḍāla... There are many kinds of meat-eaters. So the class of men who are dog-eaters, they are the lowest. They are the lowest, caṇḍāla. So if a person born in a dog-eaters' family, he can be also trained up. Sad-vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ. So guru does not mean a rascal. A śva-paca, a person born in the family of śva-paca, he can be also trained up to become Vaiṣṇava. That is also a claim by Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. This person who is born in the śva-paca family, caṇḍāla family, he is called pāpa-yoni. Yoni means mother, and bīja means father. Bīja may be nice, but if the yoni is not nice, that is called varṇa-saṅkara. These are the things. Yathā bījaṁ tathā yoni. Therefore they must be equally qualified. Anyway, so papa-yoni, born in the womb of a low-class yoni. But he can be trained. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he can be trained. There is no harm. Māṁ hi... Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya [Bg. 9.32].

*So if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, then we can become first*-class men. There is no doubt about it. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa says, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. So do you think parāṁ gatim is available for the third-class, fourth-class, last class men? No. Kṛṣṇa says in another place. These things are to be studied very minutely. Yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām te dvandva-moha... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So one who has become Vaiṣṇava, does it mean he is fool still? No. Training. Training is there. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa recommends, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim? To become high-court judge, does it mean it is ordinary qualification? If you say that "That man has become high-court judge and the other man who has seen him before, that he is not born 'No, no. How you can become high-court judge? No, he is born of a very low-class family. No.' " "No, no, he has become a high-court..." "No, no. I don't believe." "No, I have seen it." This is possible. It is not that because one is born in low-class family he cannot become high-court judge or he cannot become a Vaiṣṇava. Oh. He can be.

*So Sanātana Gosvāmī recommends, tathā dīkṣā*-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. Tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena. If dīkṣā-vidhāna, initiation process, is done nicely from the right person There are so many śāstric ref... Śuddhyanti yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ śuddhyanti [SB 2.4.18]. These things are there. So by the disciplic succession, by the instruction of the Gosvāmīs, everyone can be purified because they will properly train up. Avidyāyām antare vartamānam. They will not misguide. Dṛṣṭvā punas taṁ saghṛṇaḥ kubuddhim. Merciful: "Never mind." But there is no disqualification because one is low born and high born. Everyone can take. But he must follow the direction of the proper guide. Just like we say, "No meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex." If he follows the rules and regulation and chants Hare Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of proper spiritual master, then everything will be all right. He is no more śūdra or caṇḍāla. He will become... Caṇḍālo 'pi dvija-śreṣṭha hari-bhakti-parāyanaḥ. By advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness he can be raised to the highest plat... So it is the duty of the guide not to engage him in lower class of occupation. Therefore there must be a class of men first-class who can teach the society how to advance in human civilization.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





761106SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.18

-

Vṛndāvana, November 6, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "One who cannot deliver his dependents from the path of repeated birth and death should never become a spiritual master, a father, a husband, a mother or a worshipable demigod."



Prabhupāda:



*gurur na sa syāt sva*-jano na sa syāt

pitā na sa syāj jananī na sa syāt

daivaṁ na tat syān na patiś ca sa syān

*na mocayed yaḥ samupeta*-mṛtyum

[SB 5.5.18]



*So in the previous verse it has been described that kas taṁ svayaṁ tad*-abhijño vipaścid. The guardian should be abhijñaḥ, and vipaścit, very learned. The government, the father, the guru, the teacher, or even husband of... Because we are guided, everyone is guided by somebody else. That is society. Not cats and dogs. Just like the cats and dogs, they give birth to the children and then they have no responsibility. The dogs are loitering in the street; *nobody takes care. But human society should not be like that. There must be responsible guardians. The some of the responsible guardians are described here. First of all, guru. Either you take ordinary teacher in the school or colleges, they are also called guru, and the sublime guru is the spiritual master. Not only the spiritual master, but anyone who has taken the post of becoming guru to teach others, he must be very learned, very responsible, vipaścit, abhijñaḥ. Abhijñātaḥ, it is the qualification of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As it is said in the beginning of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, abhijñaḥ. Janmādy asya yataḥ 'nvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The controller must be abhijñaḥ. The same thing is here. Of course, we cannot be as abhijñaḥ as God*-that is not possible-but little quantity of that abhijñātaḥ must be there. Otherwise what is the use of becoming...?



*First of all, it is said about guru, anyone who takes care of his subordinate, he is guru. The first charge is that you should not become a guru unless you are completely in awareness how to save your dependent from the path of birth and death. That is the first question. Not that "I am your guru. I can cure some colic pain in your belly." They go to guru also for that purpose. People generally go to guru, rascals go to guru, to another rascal. What is that? "Sir, I have got some pain. Give me some acid bath (?) so that my pain may be cured." "But why you have come here, rascal, here for curing your pain? In the village you can go to some doctor, or you can take some tablet. Is it the purpose of coming to visit guru?" But generally they come to guru and ask for blessing for some material benefit. They are rascals, and therefore Kṛṣṇa also gives them a rascal guru. They want to be cheated. They do not know what is the purpose of going to guru. They do not know. They do not know what is the problem of my life and why shall I go to guru. They do not know. And the so*-called gurus also take advantage of this ignorance of the public, and they become a guru. This is going on. The guru does not know what is his responsibility, and the rascal public, they do not know what for one should go to guru. This is the difficulty.

Who requires a guru? Everything is there in the śāstra. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21].

*tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet

*samit*-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

*upadekṣyanti tad*-jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*This is qualification of guru, tattva*-darśi. What is that tattva?



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayaṁ

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*One who knows what is Paramātmā, what is Brahman, what is Bhagavān, he is tattva*-darśi. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. So these are the qualification of guru. Why one should go to a guru to see some magic? One who can make some gold, one who can make some... So many magicians who are becoming guru. This is going on. The public, they do not know what is the meaning of guru, and the cheaters, they get the opportunity of becoming false gurus. In the Western countries we are seeing so many so-called rascal gurus go there and cheat the public because the Europeans, Americans, they have got some conviction that India has got some spiritual knowledge, so anyone goes as a sannyāsī, as a swami, they expect to get something from them. So they gather round them. But these rascals cheat them. Somebody says, "I am incarnation of God, and I can make my secretary, woman, pregnant, and marry and get some money." This is going on. And somebody is Transcendental Meditation. What is the result of prāna...? He'll will get strong. He will get money. Your health will be right. These things are going on.



But śāstra says that you should not..., you are rascal. You should not become a guru because you have no power to save your disciple from the clutches of imminent death. We will not cheat others. Gurur na sa syāt, this is *Bhāgavatam*. You are rascal if you are not confident that you can save him from the clutches of birth and... This is my problem. But they do not know what is the problem. They think that little pain in my belly or in the head, if the guru can give me a little dust and it is cured. You will find that there are so many cheaters. In some..., about forty years ago, I know near Lucknow, some guru came, he was curing all disease by giving little dust. All cheating. Later on it was detected. Thousands, thousands men came to him, even big, big capitalists, they also. Everyone has got some disease, and they want to see the miracle by giving little dust, and he is curing disease: "Oh! Such a guru!" These things are going on. But Bhāgavata says that both the public must know what for one should go to guru. Not that it is a fashion to keep a guru, just like to keep a dog. No. He must know what is the purpose of guru.

The purpose of guru is described in the Bhāgavatam, that tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Guru to go, to surrender. Just like Arjuna, he surrendered, śiṣyas te 'ham śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Prapadye, tasmād guruṁ prapadye. You must find out guru where you can surrender. Not that keep your guru your order supply, "Give me some acid bath (?) and I may be benefited." He is not guru; *he is your order supplier, your servant. Guru means he must order it, "You must do this." If we agree, then he is a guru. Not that "I shall order my guru, and he will execute my order." No that. That will do the dog, not the guru. Then the... You have got a dog, and if you ask him, "Sit down here," a dog will sit. That kind of guru keeping has no value. But here is the responsibility of guru, first that he must save the disciple from the cycle of birth and death. Kṛṣṇa also said, "What is the problem of life?" Not that "I have got some pain here, I have some trouble or some..." These are not problems. This problem one should tolerate. Because destiny is there, one should āgamāpāyino nityā tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. We should not be disturbed for all these things. It is material world. You will have sometimes mātrā sparśās tu śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. The whole world is like that. There is sometimes distress, there is sometimes happiness. So to mitigate the worldly distress or getting some happiness, one should not go to guru. That is not the proper way.

*The proper way is that you should know the problem of life, and Kṛṣṇa personally says, "This is the real problem of your life." What is that? Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. This is problems. But they do not know. All rascals. Kṛṣṇa says, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. And don't they read? "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā, I am great politician and great leader. I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." What do you understand? Do you understand that the soul is immortal and it is transmigrating, tathā dehāntara-prāptir? Do you know all this problem? Then why you have become national leader? Today I am a Indian; tomorrow I may become a Chinaman. Then where is my nationality? Today I am human being; *tomorrow I may be a dog. Then where is my society? Where is my friendship? Where is my love? They do not disclose all these things. Cheat guru. If my soul is transmigrating, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], is it guarantee? Is there any guarantee that today I am Indian, and after my death I shall become Indian? No. There is no guarantee. Today I am American, and after death I shall become a...? No. That is not in your hand. After death your so*-called boastfulness, pride-everything finished. Then at the clutches of in the māyā's hand, in the nature's hand,

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*You are in the hands of the laws of prakṛti, even in this life. Even in this life. If you can eat one chatta, and if you will eat little more, immediately you will become diseased. Immediately. Nature will punish you, three days' starvation. You have taken more. So this is the law of nature. You cannot violate the... There is salt is required, little in the food. If it is a little more, you cannot take. If it is a little, you cannot take. So stricture, you cannot violate even a slightest degree the laws of nature. But these rascals are thinking that "I am independent." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. We should take guidance of the spiritual master or the guru or Kṛṣṇa. Guidance of guru means guidance of Kṛṣṇa, because ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. Ācāryaṁ mām, ācārya is as good as guru, as good as Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Not only Kṛṣṇa's mercy, but guru's mercy, both mercy required. Guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja.



*So by if you are sincere, actually, if we actually want Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is within your heart, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna [Bg. 18.61]. When Kṛṣṇa sees that "Here is a sincere soul, he wants Me," teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakaṁ, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam [Bg. 10.10]. As soon as sees, Kṛṣṇa, that "Here is a sincere person who wants Me," He'll give you nice guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādat. And if you have really a bona fide guru, then by pleasing him you will get the favor of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. If you have become more than your guru, then "Overcoming guru, I shall get Kṛṣṇa's prasāda, Kṛṣṇa's favor, I have learnt more, guru mara vidyā," that is also not good. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya **. This is the injunction of the ācārya, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He has described very nicely vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru nandana [Bg. 2.41]. The order of guru should be the life and soul of the disciple, without caring for his personal salvation. This is the qualification of śiṣya. Śiṣyas te 'ham śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7], fully surrendered. And guru's duty is to guide them, guide him how to overcome this cycle of birth of death. These are the relationship between guru and disciple or father and son, mother and son, friend and friend, devatā... There are so many devatās. In the śāstras there are thirty-three millions of devatā. They say, "Whatever you worship," the rascals say, not any intelligent man, that "whatever devatā. You worship Kali, that's all right. You worship Gaṇeśa, that's all right. You worship Sūrya, that's all right. Whatever you are doing is all right. It is the same thing." No. Kṛṣṇa does not say. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. That is wanted. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You are worshiping Goddess Kali, or Durga, or this, or that, that's all right." But these rascals said, "Oh, this is all right." And he has become guru. He does not know what is the path of salvation, how one can get out, can get rid of this problem of birth, death*-and still they preach.

*There are so many, you will find, rascal gurus, they are preaching like that, that "Whatever you do, it is all right." There is a big mission, they say also that yata mat tata patha. "Whatever you have manufactured, the way of salvation, that's all right." But Kṛṣṇa does not say, or the śāstra does not say. Śāstra says hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti: unless you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, Hari, there is no question of salvation. There is no question of salvation. Therefore bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. One who is bewildered, he thinks that "Whatever I do, it is all right." That is mistake. That is mistake. The jñānīs, they think that they will merge into the existence of the Supreme, that you can merge. That does not mean that you are delivered, you are liberated. Just like you will find one aeroplane is going up and up, up, up, and at a time you will find the aeroplane is no more seen (indistinct). That does not mean he has merged in the sky. He has got a separate existence, but you cannot see. Even one has got so high, it does not mean that he has merged into the sky. If he does not get another shelter, he will come back again. He will come back again. He has not merged. There is no question of merging. Brahmajyoti means the..., it is the combination of millions and trillions of sparks of living entities. That is brahmajyoti. They are not mixed up. They are just like the sunshine. The sunshine, it is not one homogeneous substance. There are millions and trillions of shining particles. Combination is called sunshine. It is not that they are merged. Similarly, every individual soul is individual. Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you, Me, and all these soldiers and kings, they were existing before, they are now existing now, and they will continue to exist in the future." So where is mixture? You, me, and all of you, we are different individuals, and Kṛṣṇa says-not ordinary person*-that "They were individuals in the past, they are individual now, and they will continue to become individual." So where is this question of merging? There is no question of merging. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loka sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7], eternally they are individuals, and eternally they will keep individual.

*So this is knowledge. Otherwise artificially if I think the same thing, that because I have gone very high in the sky, I have become mixed up with the sky... There is no question of mixing up. Therefore because it is not the question of mixing up, amalgamation, separate identity, but it is light, that is all right. But not that they have lost their individuality. Sanātana. Kṛṣṇa says, "They are individual parts sanātana, eternally." Not that now they are separated, and after liberation they will mix up. No. This is wrong conception. Therefore mixing up means... Just like we are here, mixed together. We have got individuality, but for a certain purpose we are sitting together very peacefully, and the real purpose is to learn how to serve Kṛṣṇa. So when we agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then that is mixing up of the devotees. Tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa, that is mixing up. When you assemble together with the same purpose... That's why we can understand nation. What is that nation? Everyone is individual, but the purpose is how to improve the condition of the politics, or the combination of men. Similarly when you agree... Here in the material world we are individual, and in spiritual world we are also individual, but what is the difference between material world and spiritual world? In the material world we are individual to serve my own senses. Therefore there is fight. Everyone is trying to satisfy his own senses. I am trying to satisfy my senses, you are trying... So there is clash. That is material world. And the spiritual world: when all of them agree to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa. There is like Vṛndāvana.

*What is Vṛndāvana? The devotees of Vṛndāvana, they are all individuals. The gopīs are individuals, the cowherd boys are individuals, the calves are individuals, the cows are individuals. Everyone is individual. But the purpose is how to love Kṛṣṇa. That is formless. There is no disagreement in that purpose. The gopīs are trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, the cowherd boys are satisfying, trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, mother Yaśodā is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. The whole center is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That oneness is required. Not that I become one with Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Therefore śāstra says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ: [SB 10.2.32] when they do not agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then they come back in this material world, again they begin to serve the society, to serve the country, to serve the daridra-nārāyaṇa, to serve this, that, that, that, that. So āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ, even they go to the Brahman effulgence, because they do not agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ they again come back to serve the society, friendship, and daridra-nārāyaṇa, so on, so on, so on.

So this is the Bhāgavata's instruction: one should not begin (to) become a guru, or to cheat the disciple, showing him wrong path. That is not good. That is instructed by Ṛṣabhādeva.

Thank you very much. (end)



761107SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.19

-

Vṛndāvana, November 7, 1976



*Pradyumna: "My transcendental body, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], looks exactly like a human form, but it is not a material human body. It is inconceivable. I am not forced by nature to accept a particular type of body; I take on a body by My own sweet will. My heart is also spiritual, and I always think of the welfare of My devotees. Therefore within My heart can be found the process of devotional service, which is meant for the devotees. Far from My heart have I abandoned irreligion, or adharma, and nondevotional activities. They do not appeal to Me. Due to all these transcendental qualities, people generally pray to Me as Ṛṣabhādeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the best of all living entities."



Prabhupāda:



idaṁ śarīraṁ mama durvibhāvyaṁ

sattvaṁ hi me hṛdayaṁ yatra dharmaḥ

pṛṣṭhe kṛto me yad adharma ārād

ato hi māṁ ṛṣabhaṁ prāhur āryāḥ

[SB 5.5.19]



So, God, whether impersonal or personal, that we cannot conclude by our speculation. It is not possible. Durvibhāvyam. Durvibhāvyam means beyond your conception, beyond your speculation. But He says that idaṁ śarīram. He has got His body; *He is not impersonal. He comes sometimes as incarnation. We can see Kṛṣṇa with two hands, two legs, one head. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam [Bs. 5.30]. This is described in the Vedic literature. He has two hands and He is playing on flute. He has got the peacock feather on His head. It is not imagination. The Kṛṣṇa arcā-mūrti, it is not imagination, as rascals think, that they have imaginated an idol. This is not idol worship. This is actually... I have several times explained that here is Kṛṣṇa, personally present. We should always think like that, not that it is idol worship. But durvibhāvyam means although He is present, the less intelligent class of men, they will think that "They are worshiping one statue." But that is not possible.



*You do not know what is the form of the Lord because your present senses are imperfect. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam idriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]*-the Lord's name, His form, His pastimes-na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ-our present senses are unable to conceive. Just like the soul is there within the body but nobody can see where is that soul, similarly, God is also within this body but nobody can see. It is specifically mentioned, īśvaraḥ sarva bhūtānām hṛd deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. The Lord is situated in everyone's heart, but find out the heart, where is God. There is, but you cannot see. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Present senses are unable to see. You have to prepare your eyes. Just like with cataract you cannot see anything. You have to undergo surgical operation. Then you will see. That surgical operation process is bhakti.

sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ

bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa sevanam. If God has no form, how He is Hṛṣīkeśa and how we can serve with our senses? Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa sevanam. That is bhakti.



*So God has form, but it is inconceivable by us. But from the śāstra we can understand what kind of body God has. Just like in the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is explained,

*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*ānanda*-sat-ujjvala-vigraha...

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*Now, it is inconceivable. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya vṛtti*-manti. Now, we have got this understanding, that we can see with our eyes, but God can not only see with His eyes; *He can eat with His eyes. This is inconceivable. We shall think, "How it is possible that one can eat with His eyes?" Therefore śāstra says, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya vṛtti*-manti [Bs. 5.32]. Just like we offer foodstuff to the Deity. The atheist will say, "Oh, you have offered this, so many nice foodstuff, but He has not eaten. It is there, lying there." But he does not know that God has His indriyas, sakalendriya vṛtti-manti. As soon as sees the foodstuff is offered, He has eaten. That they do not know. This is inconceivable. Unless we accept the inconceivable energy of the Lord, there is no question of God. So He can eat by seeing. Aggāni yasya sakalendriya vṛtti-manti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti [Bs. 5.32]. He can offer you blessing, everything, by one aṅga. By one part of the body He can do everything. This is inconceivable. Adhokṣaja. Therefore another name of God is called adhokṣaja. Akṣaja jñānam adhaḥ kṛta.



*Our knowledge is sense perception. Sense perception, akṣaja jñānam. That will not act there. Acintya. Therefore we have to accept in that way. Idaṁ śarīram, but He has His body. He has His body, and because we cannot conceive, He, out of His causeless mercy, He presents Himself in a form which we can see. That is arcā-vigraha, arcā-mūrti. A vigraha. Arcā means the form which we can worship. If God is impersonal Avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Kleśo adhikataras teṣām. If we accept God as impersonal He is not impersonal. He says idaṁ śarīram. He is personal. But our present senses cannot perceive. That is the difficulty. Therefore out of His causeless mercy He has appeared in a form which you can see, you can touch, you can dress, you can offer garland, you can offer food*-to accept your service. That is God's mercy. Don't think that "Because God mercifully has come before Me in a form which we can perceive, which we can see, with which we can serve," not that "He is not God." That is rascaldom. God is there. Otherwise Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as He entered the Jagannātha's temple, immediately He fainted. Does it mean He made a fun? No. He saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead present there.

*So it requires eyes to see God. That eyes you have to prepare. What is that eyes? Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. You have to apply eyes' ointment. Just like there is some medicine, eye ointment, which you apply*-you can see very distinctly-similarly, that ointment is premāñjana. If you develop love for God Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is in ecstasy, always in love. He can see. Similarly, if you develop your love for God, then you can see. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. This premāñjana, this ointment of love is bhakti. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Tattvataḥ, not superficially, actually what He is. That you can understand through bhakti, not any other process. Kṛṣṇa does not say that you can Bhakta, not bhakta but jñānam. There are jñānis. There are yogis. No. They cannot understand Bhagavān tattvataḥ. Therefore Bhagavān says,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



"Even persons who are already siddha, perfect jñānīs, yogis, they are also unable to see Me." If one, however, by good fortune, the yogis, the jñānīs, come in contact with a bhakta, then, by the mercy of the bhakta, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, he can see. Otherwise durvibhāvya, idaṁ śarīraṁ mama. The Supreme Personality says, mama: "Mine. My body. I have got My body," but durvibhāvyam.



So we have to understand God as He says. Don't imagine. Don't speculate. That is useless.

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṇgavānāṁ

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



Avicintya or durvibhāvyam, the same thing. Even if you try to understand God or want to go to God, vāyor athāpi, by your airplane at the speed of the mind, not ordinary speed... Mind's speed you can imagine. You are sitting here, and fifteen thousand miles away, New York, you can immediately see your room there. This is mind's speed. Immediately within a second. Just imagine how much the mind is speedy. Mind is subtle. Everyone, you have got mind, I have got mind, but I cannot see your mind; you cannot see my mind. Subtle. This is a material thing. Bhūmir āpo'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano, mano [Bg. 7.4]. The sky, ether, we cannot see but we can perceive. When you press the sky like this, (claps) there is sound. You can understand, "Here is sky." But mind you cannot see, still subtle.



indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu paro buddhir

buddhes para tu yaḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



So the soul is so subtle, you cannot see. You cannot see sky, and still finer is the mind, still finer is intelligence, and still finer, the soul. So how can you see? With your gross eyes it is not possible. Therefore they are bewildered, how the soul is being transferred from one body to another. They see the gross body. Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. But doctors, medical men, scientists, they cannot see that where is the soul, how the soul is transmigrating. These are all durvibhāvya, inconceivable.



Therefore we have to hear from the authorities, from Kṛṣṇa, that there is soul; there is ātmā; *there is transmigration. And everything, what is spoken in the śāstra, they are fact, but we do not consult śāstra. We become scientists. We become philosophers. With gross understanding, dull understanding, poor understanding, how you can understand yourself and God? So there is no question of self*-realization by your gross understanding. You have to understand by hearing. Therefore to get real knowledge is not by the eyes and senses but by the ear. Therefore Vedic knowledge is called śruti. You have to receive knowledge-śruti. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Why? The guru means who is fully aware of the śruti, śrotriyam, one who has perfectly listened to his guru. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. And by hearing only, he has become brahma-niṣṭham, without any doubt: "Yes, there is God. Yes." We have to approach such person who has perfectly listened to his... Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So by śruti, by hearing oral reception. Just like there is practical example. Suppose you are sleeping, and somebody is coming to do you some harm, to kill you. But another person is warning you, "Please get up! Get up! Somebody is coming to kill you." But it will act, because while other senses are practically dead, the ear is working. By hearing, you can get up. This is practical.

So at the present moment we are sleeping, sleeping in the darkness. Therefore to get knowledge we have to use our ears. Śravaṇam. Therefore to enter into the devotional service one has to use this ear, śravaṇam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda... And śravaṇam about whom? Śravaṇam about Viṣṇu, śravaṇaṁ kīrta..., śravaṇam. They say that "You can hear anything." No.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*This is the process. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma*-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. These are the injunction. Ādau gurvāśrayaṁ sad dharma pṛcchat sādhu mārganu gamanam. These are the process.



*So Ṛṣabhadeva said that "I have got My body," idaṁ śarīram, when He appears to solve our problem, whether God is personal or impersonal. Impersonal is there, there is no doubt, but what is that impersonal? Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4]. That is impersonal. No, He's Māyā: "By Me." That means His energy. His energy is distributed throughout the whole creation, cosmic manifestation. But He is still there. Māyā. Unless He is there Not that because He is spread everywhere-vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]*-it does not mean He is finished. That is material understanding. In the materially, if you take a piece of paper and make it a small pieces and throw it, then the original paper is no longer existing. That is material conception. But spiritual conception? Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. That is spiritual idea. If you take cent percent God from God, still He is cent percent. That is pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. Īśāvāsyam idam. So Kṛṣṇa says that māyā, "In My another feature, Vasudeva feature," mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Everything is God, but everything is not God. That is explained by God.

mayā tatam idam sarva

*jagat avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nahaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



*The Māyāvādīs, the poor fund knowledge, they say, "Why you are worshiping God here? He is everywhere." "He is everywhere? He is in the temple also." "No," they will say, "not in the temple. He is everywhere except in the temple. Don't go to the temple." This is rascaldom. If God is everywhere, why He is not in the temple? So this is their knowledge, poor fund of knowledge. Alpa*-medhasā. Alpa-medhasā. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11].



*So God has form, but He is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha. He is not... When it is said, the nirākāra, "no form," that does not mean that He has no ākāra. The ākāra, or the form which we understand, He hasn't got that form. He is sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Otherwise how He can accept your offerings? Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. He says, "I eat." So if He has no mouth, how He can eat? And therefore the Vedic literature informs us that paśyati acakṣuḥ: "He sees, but He has no eyes." When the Vedic literature says that He has no eyes, that means He has no eyes like us. But He has got eyes; otherwise how He sees? Paśyati acakṣuḥ śṛṇoti akarṇaḥ. He can hear; otherwise what is the use of offering prayer? Yes, He hears, but akarṇa, not that He has got ears like you. He is in the Vaikuṇṭha, many, many millions and trillions miles away, but still, you are offering here, "Govindam ādi puruṣam." He is hearing. He is here. Sarvatra pāṇi pādas tat. This thing should be understood.

*And because we do not understand-everything we try to test with our limited understanding-therefore we do not believe in the activities of the Lord, and we are deceived in that way. God is all-powerful, but when we hear that God at the age of seven years age, old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill, immediately we dismiss, "Oh, this is all mythology." Why? If He has got inconceivable power-He is all-powerful*-is it very difficult for Him to lift the Govardhana Hill? "No, we don't believe in God. Even if we believe, we want to believe in our own way." That is bhāvyam, conceivable. But He is durvibhāvyam. You cannot conceive. Two contradict things. Just like here Kṛṣṇa said, Ṛṣabhadeva, that sattvaṁ hi me hṛdayaṁ yatra dharmaḥ. The dharma and adharma, they are two contradictory thought. But He is the source of dharma and adharma both. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Adharma, which we hate, that is also coming from God. Janmādya asya yataḥ. Otherwise... That is explained here. Pṛṣṭhe. Pṛṣṭhe kṛto me yad adharma ārāt. So adharma is also there in God-on the back side. So is there any difference between back side and front side? Advaya-jñāna, absolute. No.

*So these things have to be understood, that both dharma and adharma, they are coming from... He is the original, so... Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. Everything is coming from Him. So dharma and adharma, that is duality, duality understanding within this material world. In the spiritual world there is no such thing. The dharma and adharma is the same thing because the same source. This to be understood from right sources, right person. Then we can understand. But He comes, Kṛṣṇa comes, out of His causeless mercy to inform us. Not only Kṛṣṇa*-many others incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Ṛṣabhadeva. He is also incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. He is explaining Himself. So we should take advantage of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, from the Absolute Truth. Don't speculate. Speculation has no meaning. So we have got this instruction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if we are serious about understanding about God, then we can hear from Him. And whatever He says, whatever He instructs, you take it. Then our life will be successful. And if we speculate, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampra...

*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



*So this is the process. We must be ready to surrender to Him. We must be ready to render service unto Him. Then our spiritual life will be revived. At the present moment we are covered by the material conception of life: "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya." These are all designations, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When you become free from these all these designation*-you become purified-then you can develop your love for God. Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate.



Thank you very much. (end)



761108SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.20

-

Vṛndāvana, November 8, 1976



Pradyumna: "My dear boys, you are all born of My heart, which is the seat of all spiritual qualities. Therefore you should not be like materialistic and envious men. You should accept your eldest brother, Bharata, who is exalted in devotional service. If you engage yourselves in Bharata's service, your service to him will include My service, and you will rule the citizens automatically."



Prabhupāda:



tasmād bhavanto hṛdayena jātāḥ

sarve mahīyāṁsam amuṁ sanābham

*akliṣṭa*-buddhyā bharatam bhajadhvaṁ

śuśrūṣaṇaṁ tad bharaṇaṁ prajānām

[SB 5.5.20]



*So Ṛṣabhadeva was retiring from the duty of royal position, and before that, He selected, out of His one hundred sons, Bharata as the king, next king. Bharata Mahārāja also very exalted. There is a long history of Bharata Mahārāja. Under his name this land or this earthly planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, on account of Bharata Mahārāja. This planet, the whole planet, was formerly known as Bhāratavarṣa. Before that, it was known as Ilāvṛta*-varṣa. After the reign of Bharata Mahārāja it was named Bhāratavarṣa. So the emperor of Bhāratavarṣa, of this, ruling all over the world, even up to the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit... And this New Delhi, Hastināpura, was the capital of the world, and there was only one flag, united. There was no need of hundreds of flags, United Nation. We have seen in New York the United Nation organization. The flags are increasing, not under one flag. The culture is lost. In India also the division. Everywhere the division is increasing. In Europe there is only one city. That is also another state. Luxembourg or...? So without the central point, certainly, gradually the division will increase, and in the name of nationalism, the strife and quarrel and fight will increase. Just like in India twenty years before or thirty years before, there was no Pakistan. Now they are divided, and already two big fights have been fought.



So this is the position, that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone will try to enjoy sense gratification independently. Either individually, collectively, socially, economically, politically, go on dividing, dividing, divide. There is no oneness; *simply division. So Ṛṣabhadeva is advising His other sons-He had one hundred sons*-that bharataṁ bhajadhvam: "You just be obedient to Bharata. Don't try to rule independently, because if you follow the principles of Bharata Mahārāja, that will satisfy the citizens, not ruling over independently." We have practical examples. At the present moment there are three dozen minister, four dozen secretaries, and two dozen governors and so on, so on. But there is no peace. There is no peace because they are missing the central point, the central point, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says personally He has come personally to inform us the real situation. He says, sarva-loka maheśvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the proprietor of all planets." So accept this principle, that "Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa claims. Kṛṣṇa never said that "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," or "I am Uttar Pradeshiya." No. He never says. He says,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayoyaḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*aham bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



"I am the father not only of the human society, but I am the father of other forms of life."



*There are different forms of life, 8,400,000 forms of life. They are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. It may be a small ant or he may be exalted personality like Lord Brahma. Everyone. So if we know the Kṛṣṇa science, then we can understand it. This universal brotherhood, that we all, in different forms of life we are all sons of the Supreme Lord, supreme father... He says in another place, mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "All the jīvas, they are My part and..." Just like the son is part and parcel of the body of the father, similarly, we are also sons, everyone, of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. And if you are really advanced in knowledge, then paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Then you are actually paṇḍita, not falsely to be called paṇḍita and number one fool. That is not paṇḍita. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. The defect of the modern civilization is that there is no paṇḍita. All rascals. All rascals. Therefore they have demarcated, "This is India," "This is America." No. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Then there will be peace. If in the United Nation they simply pass one resolution with determination, that "The whole planet belongs to Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we are all His sons," there is no trouble.

*There is no scarcity. Kṛṣṇa has created this world in such a way that there is no question of starvation in any part of the world. There is no question. Sufficient. Pūrṇam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. There is no question of starvation. But because we have rebelled against the principle of universal brotherhood we are all suffering. I have several times said that there are ample space. There is no question of scarcity. Ample space. I am traveling all over the world. So much space lying vacant in America, in Africa, Australia. Why the Chinese or the Indians should be congested, overpopulation? But they will not allow. "It is my country." "Have you got visa?" immigration. "Yes, I have got." "All right, three months. Then get out." This is going on. Because they are rascals, they are falsely claiming, "This is my country. This is my property. Nobody can come here." This is a dog's philosophy. Just like the dogs. They have selected one neighborhood, and three, four dogs, they live peacefully. Not peacefully*-they also fight amongst them. But if another dog comes, immediately the four, five dogs will attack: "Why you have come here? Why you have come here? Gow! Gow! Gow!"

*So this kind of so*-called immigration department means dog's department. They are maintained for checking the human life. Why there should be immigration? We are all brothers. Why you should stop? It is my father's property. It is your father's property. India was like that. The foreigners took advantage of India's simplicity, magnanimity. They came here, the Muhammadans and the Christians, to exploit it. But India was very much magnanimous. Anyone who comes-"Yes, come here. Learn Vedic literature." The India's philosophy is gṛhaṁ śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. That is India's philosophy. "Even the enemy comes to your place, you should receive him so nicely that he will forget that he is your enemy." That is India's philosophy. Gṛhaṁ śatrum api prāptam. What to speak of friend, even if you get your enemy, you shall receive him. That is India's hospitality. In the fight...

*We have got incidences in the history. There was fight, Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, but in the evening time they were friends. Evening time, there is no animosity. Just like Arjuna went to Duryodhana. Duryodhana criticized as grandfather. Grandfather is sometimes criticized by the grandsons. It is not an offense. You cannot criticize superiors, but between grandfather and grandchildren the relation is different. The grandfather also criticizes the grandchildren. So Duryodhana criticized Bhīṣmadeva, "My dear grandfather, you have got affection for the Pāṇḍavas. Then you are not fighting sincerely. You have been appointed the commander*-in-chief, but out of your affection you are neglecting your duty." Indirectly he said. So old grandfather became little angry. "What do you want?" "No, can finish them in one day. Why you are taking so much time?" "All right, I shall finish today. Tomorrow I shall do that. At least I shall finish Arjuna tomorrow. Either his intimate friend Kṛṣṇa will have to break His promise or His friend will die. You'll see tomorrow." Because Kṛṣṇa said, "Arjuna, I am joining you, but I shall not fight. Do you want Me?" Still, Arjuna said, "Yes, I want You. You don't fight." And Duryodhana saw Kṛṣṇa divided, one side Himself and another side His eighteen aksauhini military force. So Duryodhana thought that "Better let me take the forces. If Kṛṣṇa does not fight, what shall I do with Him? Better take His forces." So Duryodhana accepted the military force, and Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, with the promise that "I shall not fight. So I shall become your charioteer." So Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa, and Pitāmaha, the Grandfather Bhīṣmadeva, this is the scene.

*Now Bhīṣmadeva has promised. Bhīṣmadeva knew that "Arjuna cannot be killed. I will show Duryodhana that I am not partial. He is not to be killed." Yeṣāṁ paṣe janārdanaḥ. Jayas tu pāṇḍu*-putrāṇām yeṣāṁ pakṣe janārdanaḥ. "Nobody can kill them. But this rascal is criticizing me, so I shall show tomorrow." So he made five weapons to kill the five brothers, and he said that "I am keeping these five arrows to kill the five brothers tomorrow. Don't worry. Sleep nicely." So Kṛṣṇa could understand that "This arrangement has been done." So Kṛṣṇa reminded Arjuna that "Duryodhana wanted to give you some benediction, being pleased upon you. Now you go there and take the five weapons from him." So when My point is that how the fighting was in a sporting spirit. So Arjuna, when came to the camp of Duryodhana, Duryodhana well received him: "Yes, my dear brother, come. What do you want? Why you have come?" "Now, you promised something to give me. I have come to take that." "Yes, I will give you. You want without fight the kingdom? Take it immediately. You want that?" "No, no, no. I don't want that. Fighting must go on. That is not I have not come to beg you that. We shall I have come to take that weapons which you have kept." Immediately he delivered. He kept the safety for killing them, and because he has come to beg "A kṣatriya should not beg, but he is begging? All right, take it." This is India. This is India's civilization.

*And the next day also, Bhīṣmadeva fought so vigorously that Arjuna was going to be killed. His chariot broken, his everything was torn. Then Kṛṣṇa... You have seen the picture. Then Kṛṣṇa came with a broken wheel to kill Bhīṣmadeva, and Bhīṣmadeva immediately stopped: "Yes, my now promise is fulfilled. Yes, my dear Sir, You have broken Your promise. You promised not to fight, not to... Now, at the present moment, to give protection to Your friend, You have now broken. Yes." So Kṛṣṇa can do that. Kṛṣṇa, He can do everything to give protection to His friend and devotee. He can do, break His promise. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. He does not promise personally, because He might sometimes break His promise. He is asking Arjuna, "You promise so that your promise will be kept always. I shall see to that." This is the philosophy.

So if we actually formulate peace formula, then everything is possible. Simply we have to accept the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for this purpose. We are simply requesting to accept the Kṛṣṇa philosophy. Then the whole world will be peaceful. There is no doubt about it.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*These rascals, their mentality is like the dogs, and they are making United Nation. A dog can be united? Is it possible? No. You bring several dozens of best dog and ask them, "Please live peacefully. We shall give you food, everything." It is not in their capacity to live peacefully. So even there is already ample economic development, sufficiency, but because the mentality is doggish, the so*-called farce of United Nation, they are fighting with one another. It is not possible.



*So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everything will be failure. Therefore Bharata Mahārāja, er, Ṛṣabhadeva Mahārāja is advising that "You concentrate your service to Bharata." [break] ...it is advised to a brāhmaṇa that if, when that time comes, you can come to the position of a kṣatriya or even up to vaiśya, but never to the position of a śūdra. This is dog's business. They are... At the present moment everyone is being trained up to become śūdra, dogs. High education, big, big degrees, but if the dog is not appointed by a master, his all qualification useless. Therefore it is doggish civilization. And Aryan civilization means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Śūdra means one who cannot live independently-he has to depend on some master-he's a śūdra. That's all. The brāhmaṇa should live by education, by knowledge. Everyone will honor them. They will give advice to the śūdras, er, to the kṣatriyas. When Paraśurāma killed eleven..., twenty*-one times all the kṣatriyas, his father chastised him that "This is not the business of a brāhmaṇa. My dear son, you are so angry, you have killed all the kṣatriyas and you have killed Kārtavīryārjuna by anger. Oh, you have done great sinful activities. It is not the business of the brāhmaṇa. Therefore you should retire for some time and go to holy places to counteract your sinful activities." This was spoken to Paraśurāma by his father.

*So there must be division. A brāhmaṇa can kill anyone simply by words. He is so powerful. But he does not do that. When Viśvāmitra was disturbed by Taraka Rākṣasī in the forest, he came to Dasaratha Mahārāja for help. He could kill that Taraka Rākṣasī simply by his word, but he would not do that. This is not brāhmaṇa's business. He wanted to take the help of a kṣatriya and kill the rākṣasī. Kṣatriya can kill. Brāhmaṇa can take charity. A kṣatriya can exact taxes, and vaiśya be engaged in producing food grains. Kṛṣi gorakṣya*-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg 18.44]. This is civilization. Aryan civilization means the division must be there. Kṛṣṇa personally says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma [Bg. 4.13]. The varṇāśrama must be there because the whole aim is how to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because the Supreme Personality of Godhead has to be satisfied.

*On account of our rebellious attitude towards the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we are suffering in this material world. Just like any citizen rebellious to the laws of God or laws of the government, he is put into the prisonhouse. Similarly, we are all sons and subordinate to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and when we become rebellious, "Ah, what is God? What is Kṛṣṇa...?" Vimūḍhān kartāham iti manyate. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā [Bg. 3.27]. All these rascals who are godless, they are rebellious. They must suffer. The prakṛti is there. Prakrṭeḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ...

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



As soon as you become rebellious to Kṛṣṇa, immediately māyā is there, just like as soon as you become rebellious the government laws, immediately you are under the police custody.



*There are two things: government and the police. So you cannot escape. It is... When you think that "I can escape God's ruling. I can deny the existence of God," that is your foolishness. Mūḍhā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. These rascals, they are not only sinful but also lowest of the mankind, who denies the existence of God, godless, the so*-called, so many parties. They want to improve by becoming godless. Among the scientists it is a great sin to utter even the name of God. They will say, "Oh, you are talking of God. You are not scientist." Is it not? Yes. Scientist means you must be godless. This is going on. Therefore we are making so much propaganda against these rascal scientists. We are presenting... They are putting this theory that life is born out of chemicals. We are putting the counter theory: "No. Life is born of life, never from chemicals." Our scientist students, they are writing the book, you know. And so our proposition is: anyone against the authority of God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we must strongly criticize him and take to task. This is our business. Just like Hanumān, Vajrāṅgajī. He took very severely to punish Rāvaṇa. What was the fault? He was godless. He was against Rāma. Therefore he took it very seriously and set fire to his beautiful kingdom, Laṅkā.

So, of course, Hanumānjī never did it for his personal. They were monkeys, not even human being. They did not want. The monkeys did not want such nice city. But for Rāmacandra... Similarly, our principle should be that we can utilize everything, but not for our sense gratification, but for Kṛṣṇa. That should be the motive of Kṛṣṇa conscious people. And try to educate people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious so that actually they become happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



761109SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.21-22

-

Vṛndāvana, November 9, 1976



Pradyumna: "Of the two energies manifest, spirit and dull matter, beings possessing living force, that is vegetables, grass, trees and plants, are superior to dull matter, or stone, earth, etc. Superior to nonmoving plants and vegetables are worms and snakes, which can move. Superior to worms and snakes are animals that have developed intelligence. Superior to animals are human beings, and superior to human beings are ghosts because they have no material bodies. Superior to ghosts are the Gandharvas, and superior to them are the Siddhas. Superior to the Siddhas are the Kinnaras, and superior to them are the asuras. Superior to the asuras are the demigods, and of the demigods, Indra, the king of heaven, is supreme. Superior to Indra are the direct sons of Lord Brahmā, sons like King Dakṣa. And supreme among Brahmā's sons is Lord Śiva. Since Lord Śiva is the son of Lord Brahmā, Brahmā is considered superior, but Brahmā is also subordinate to Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because I am inclined to the brāhmaṇas, the brāhmaṇas are best of all." [break]



Prabhupāda: What is that?



...uduttamā ye

*sarīsṛpās teṣu sabodha*-niṣṭhāḥ

tato manuṣyāḥ pramathās tato 'pi

*gandharva*-siddhā vibudhānugā ye



*devāsurebhyo maghavat*-pradhānā

*dakṣādayo brahma*-sutās tu teṣāṁ

*bhavaḥ paraḥ so 'tha viriñca*-vīryaḥ

*sa mat*-paro ahaṁ dvija-deva-devaḥ

[SB 5.5.21-22]



So Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva analyzing the different grades of living entities. Bhūteṣu, anything which is generated. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Everything is generated from Kṛṣṇa, Parabrahman. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. From Kṛṣṇa everything is generated. But according to consciousness, they are divided into two energies: the superior energy and the inferior energy. The more the consciousness is developed, one comes to the platform of superior energy. So the dull stone, dull matter, they have no consciousness, but there is life.



*We learn from Brahma*-saṁhitā that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is within the atom. Atom is..., not that atom was not known, atomic energy was not known to the Vedic scholars. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣam [Bs. 5.35]. Anor anīyāṁ mahato mahīyān. The Supreme Lord can enter even within the atom. They are studying, modern scientists, the atomic energy, but still, they are perplexed. The smaller than proton, electron, and so many things, still, still, still... So there is life even within the atom. But scientists, because they are materialistic person, they cannot understand wherefrom the energy, the life energy, is emanating. Otherwise life energy is there even within the atom. So the life energy begins, vīrudbhya. The plants, the grass, there is life symptom. Gradually there are different grades.

*jalajā nava*-lakṣāni

*sthāvarā lakṣa*-viṁśati

*kṛmayo rudra*-saṅkhyakāḥ

*pakṣiṇāṁ daśa*-lakṣaṇam



In this way, this is evolutionary growth, one after another. The evolution takes place. Evolution means gradual evolution or manifestation of consciousness. That is evolution.



So the atheist class of men, because they cannot understand that there is soul, they cannot understand that evolution means evolution of consciousness. They do not understand. They are thinking that the, originally in the matter there was no life. and all of a sudden the life came. No. Life is completely different from the matter. Not completely different; *it is the same energy from the Supreme Lord. One is developed, the other is not developed. In this way, as Brahmā has defined, mat*-paro ahaṁ dvija-deva-devaḥ. So in this way, within this material world there are varieties of developed consciousness, and in the spiritual world, when we surpass, transcend the material world, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo anya [Bg. 8.20], when we are promoted to the other energy, other world, then our consciousness... Even when one is, I mean to say, transmitted to the spiritual world... The first is brahmajyoti. Their consciousness is also not developed, even one has gone to the spiritual world where everything is spiritual. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. That means consciousness is fully developed when he is a devotee, when one adores the lotus feet of the Lord. Yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. So those who are promoted even to the Brahmajyoti, they are also not fully conscious. Fully conscious means a devotee. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That is full consciousness. Without this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no question of full-fledged Just like a small bud of a flower. First of all the seed. The seed grows, then the buds come out, then gradually the buds develop, it becomes flower, then full-fledged flower, then fragrance, beauty. Everything is developed. That is real development. Similarly, this is the process of development. When one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is full-fledged flower with fragrance, beauty, and everything. That is the perfection.

*So there are so many description of different types of living entities within this material world. But these so*-called scientists, on account of their being mūḍha or rascals, they are studying that "Except in this planet, everywhere there is dust and rocks." This is their foolishness. No. Here it is stated that siddha Tato manuṣyāḥ pramathās tato 'pi gandharva-siddhā. So see development. Siddha. Siddha means those who have got yogic mystic power, siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi. Aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, īśitva, vaśitva, these are called siddhis. Nowadays so-called yogis, they show some gymnastic. That is not siddhi. Siddhi is different thing. One can become smaller than the smallest. That is called aṇimā. One can become bigger than the biggest, just like Hanumānji. He jumped over the sea. Jumped over sea... This is mahimā-siddhi. One can become as big as required. Just like there is water. A grown-up man can cross water by jumping, but a small child cannot do. So proportionately, if you increase your body by the mahimā-siddhi, you can jump over the sea. That is possible. So these are called siddhas. We have got description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the Siddhaloka. There the people can go from one planet to another in this body. That is called siddhi. Here we are trying to go to other planet with the machine, and still, we are failure. But in the Siddhaloka they can go very easily from one planet to another with this body. They are siddhas.

*So these descriptions are there. There are Gandharvalokas, Kinnaralokas, and the topmost is Brahmaloka, where Lord Brahmā lives. And other persons, many, everywhere... Not that simply the chief man lives. His assistant, his paraphernalia, everything, is there. Just like we understand from Bhagavad*-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. So Visvasvate, Vivasvān, is the sun-god. The sun-god, Kṛṣṇa instructed him this Bhagavad-gītā. He says personally, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. So do not think that simply there is sun. No. There are It is very, very big planet, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet. Don't think that there is vacant. No. We get information from Bhagavad-gītā that every planet is full of living entities. It is not vacant, but they have got different types of body. It is not vacant. Different types of body. In Brahma-samita we understand, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣu aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Aśeṣa-vasudhā vibhūti-bhinnam. There are in each universe Within the Brahmajyoti there are innumerable brahmāṇḍas, universes. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was requested by one of His devotee, "My Lord, You have come here to deliver the fallen souls, so kindly take them with You. And if You think that 'They are sinful. They cannot go with Me back to home, back to Godhead,' so You kindly transfer all their sinful life to me. I shall suffer here. Let them go with You." This is Vaiṣṇava, para duḥkha duḥkhi. Vaiṣṇava can accept all kinds of sufferings, provided others are benefited. This is Vaiṣṇava. Para duḥkha duḥkhi. This is the sample of Vaiṣṇava. He is requesting Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "My Lord, You have come to deliver the fallen souls. In the material world everyone is fallen. So You take them. And if You think they are so sinful they cannot go, then transfer their sins to me. I shall continue to suffer many lives, but You take." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very pleased by his statement. So He replied also. He said, "Suppose the whole universe I take with Me. Then what is the loss in this material world? There are millions of universes." He compared that "In a bag of mustard, if I take out one mustard, then where is the loss there?"

*So similarly, Kṛṣṇa's creation, God's creation, is unlimited. That they do not understand. They are the frogs in the well. They are thinking... Kupa*-manduka-nyāya. Everyone is thinking... The kupa-manduka is thinking that "This is the whole water, within this well, this three-feet span of water. That is final." And if you say to the kupa-manduka, "Oh, I have seen another vast water, Atlantic Ocean," he cannot imagine. So these rascals, those who are unaware of the potency of God, they think that "God may be like me. I am so little powerful. He may be little more powerful." Therefore they cannot understand what is God because they are thinking in their own terms. And somebody is thinking that "I am God." So this misconception should be given up. He is aṇor aṇīyāṁ mahato mahīyān.

*Manuṣyāḥ... These are gradual, pramathāḥ. Pramathāḥ, they are also living entities. We have heard, some of them, about the ghost. They have no material body. The advantage of material body... [break] ...they are covered with mind, intelligence, and ego, but their gross body-earth, water, air, fire*-that is not there. So one king, he also rejected the material body and remained, Videha. Videha king. So one can remain like that, without this gross body and subtle body, material. Just like in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, that is... But in the material world, when one is not covered by the gross body but subtle body, they are called ghosts or pramathās. Those who are good, not harmful, they are called pramathās. And those who are harmful... As in this material world there are good men and bad men, similarly, amongst the persons who has no this gross body, they are sometimes called ghosts and sometimes they are called pramathā.

*So in this way, varieties of life, beginning from the insects and the aquatics, animal, up to the point of Lord Brahmā. But they are all within this material world. It does not mean because the Gandharvas, Siddhas, they have got higher standard of life and power hundreds and thousands times more than our power, do not think that they are liberated persons. They are not liberated person. They are all conditioned soul. Ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino arjuna. All these conditioned soul, according to karma, they are getting different types of body. One has got the body of an ant, and one has got the body of Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. But that is not our aim. Our aim is how to avoid this material body. For that purpose, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that "I have got now the body of an ant. Let me get the body of Brahmā or Indra or in a Siddhaloka." This is not gain.

*Therefore those who are devotees, they do not care either for Brahmā or for the ant. They do not care. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa*-pūr ākāśa puṣpāyate, vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate. For a devotee... Vidhi means Lord Brahmā, and Mahendra means this maghavat-here it is said-means Indra. So for a devotee they treat equally either Brahmā or Indra kīṭāvat, just like an ant, because they know that he may be Brahmā, he may be Indra, but he has got this material body; one small insect, it has got material body.

*kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa*-pūr ākāśa puṣpāyate

*durdāntendriya kāla*-sarpa-paṭalī proṭkhāta-daṁstrāyate

*vidhi*-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate viśvaṁ pūrnaṁ-sukhāyate

*yat kārunya*-katākṣa vaibhavavātaṁ gauram eva stumaḥ



*This is a verse by Prabhodānanda Sarasvatī. He gives his opinion that if one is favored by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yat katākṣa vaibhavavātaṁ gauram eva stumaḥ: "I am offering my respectful obeisances to Lord Caitanya because little glance of His mercy creates this situation." What is that? Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. The people are very anxious to merge into kaivalya, brahmajyoti, only spirit. So for them that kaivalya is naraka, hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. And tridaśa*-pūr ākāśa puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pūr means the heavenly planets, where the demigods, as it is described, the Gandharvas, Kinnaras, Siddhas, they live. They are like flowers in the sky, will-o'-the-wisp, no factual happiness. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūr ākāśa puṣpāyate. And durdāntendriya kāla-sarpa-paālī proṭkhāta-daṁstrāyate. And indriya saṁyamaḥ, the yogis, they are trying to control the senses. Yoga indriya sam... That is the real purpose. Our indriyas are so disturbing, just like kāla-sarpa. You are sitting here. If one snake comes, immediately you'll be all disturbed, immediately. So to... Disturbing why? Because every one of us, we know, "Here is a kāla-sarpa." Kāla-sarpa means anyone it bites, immediately death. Immediately death. But this kāla-sarpa is dreadful, vicious, so long the fangs are there. Proṭkhāta daṁstrāyate. If the fangs, the poison fangs, are taken away, or if you know, "Here is a snake, but the snake's fangs have been taken away," you'll not be afraid. Visa hina sarpaḥ. Visa hina sarpaḥ.



*So for a devotee this kāla*-sarpa-paālī automatically subdued because they do not use the senses for sense gratification. They are engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. If our senses are engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, the poisonous fangs are taken away. It is no more dreadful. There is no need of practicing indriya saṁyamaḥ. Indriya saṁyamaḥ automatically. One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is not disturbed. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He did not go to control the senses, but because he was chanting... He practiced chanting. A beautiful prostitute at dead of night offered her body to be enjoyed. He said, "Yes, I shall satisfy you. Please sit down. Let me finish my chanting." This is kāla-sarpa-paālī proṭkhāta-daṁstrāyate. He was not even agitated. This is the benefit of becoming a favorite servant of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Thank you very much. (end)



761110SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.23

-

Vṛndāvana, November 10, 1976



Pradyumna: "O respectful brāhmaṇas, as far as I am concerned, no one is equal or superior to the brāhmaṇas in this world. I do not find anyone comparable to them. When people know My motive, after performing rituals according to the Vedic principles they offer food to Me with faith and love through the mouth of a brāhmaṇa. When food is thus offered unto Me, I eat it with full satisfaction. Indeed, I derive more pleasure from food offered in that way than from the food offered in the sacrificial fire."



Prabhupāda:



na brāhmaṇais tulaye bhūtam anyat

paśyāmi viprāḥ kim ataḥ paraṁ tu

yasmin nṛbhiḥ prahutaṁ śraddhayāham

*aṣnāmi kāmaṁ na tathāgni*-hotre

[SB 5.5.23]



*So Ṛṣabhadeva is teaching us what is the value of brahminical culture. Human society without brahminical culture is animal society. We offer our obeisances to the Lord, namo brāhmaṇya*-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Kṛṣṇa is first of all interested to see whether in the society the brāhmaṇa and the cow is properly respected. Namo brāhmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. His first business is to see that the brāhmaṇa and cow is being properly honored. Then jagad-dhitāya. Then automatically the whole world will be peaceful. This secret of success they do not know. Nobody is prepared to become brāhmaṇa, and so far cow protection is concerned, it is in the oblivion. This is the whole world position. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. It must be, because this is animal society. When these two things are neglected, it is animal society, and then other animal qualities and paraphernalia follow.



*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva personally speaking that na brāhmaṇais tulaye bhūtam anyat [SB 5.5.23]. There are 8,400,000 of living entities, and as we have studied yesterday, how gradually evolution comes, elevated. So here it is the conclusion, the evolution must come to the topmost platform of brahminical culture. Satya śamo dama titikṣa ārjavaṁ, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Now people are not at all interested. If you advertise that "We are opening one gurukula where brahminical culture will be instructed. Send your boys," nobody will send. They are not concerned anymore that "My son should be truthful, self-controlled, mind controlled," śama dama. Śama means mind-control, śamata, and dama means sense-control. Without controlling the mind, how you can control the senses? The yoga system is practiced to control the mind, to control the senses, because we have to evolve from animal platform to brāhmaṇa platform or spiritual platform, sattva-guṇa.

*tato rājas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ

*kāma*-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

[SB 1.2.19]



*Unless we control the base qualities, namely the modes of ignorance and passion, you cannot be happy. It is not possible. Tato rājas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rājas tamo-bhāvāḥ means kāma and lobhā. So long I have lusty desire and so long I have greediness to acquire more and more and more, to enjoy senses more and more That is greediness. One should be satisfied, the minimum possible.



*Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. Āhāra means eating. Āhāra, nidrā, sleeping, and fearing, and sense enjoyment. These are required, but not for increasing but decreasing. Just like when a person is diseased he should not eat as he likes. Because he is diseased, doctor prescribes that "You take little barley water or glucose, no solid food, if you want to be cured." Similarly, these things are necessity so long this body is there. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. But this should be decreased, not increased. That is human civilization, not to increase. Just like the Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana. They did not come here to increase āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. No. They came here to decrease. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. That is wanted. This is Vṛndāvana-vasi, not that to live in Vṛndāvana and increase this āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. This is not Vṛndāvana-vasa. The monkeys are also living in Vṛndāvana, and the dogs are also and hogs are living in Vṛndāvana. But they do not know how to decrease āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. You'll see the monkeys. They are also in Vṛndāvana. But you'll find one male monkey followed by three dozen female monkeys. That is not vṛndāvana-vāsa. Āhāra-nidrā. That means it requires brahminical culture, damo, śamo. That is wanted. That is brahminical culture.

Unfortunately the present civilization, they are not meant for decreasing. They are simply increasing. The Western civlization means increasing the means of sense gratification, "machine, machine, machine, machine." So, and the brahminical culture means śamo damo titikṣa. Titikṣa means without something I may suffer. Suffer. So one should be practiced to suffer. Suffer, that is tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryenā [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya begins from celibacy. We are practiced to sex life or sense gratification. Tapasya means first of all stop this. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. This is practice.

*So to become fit for going back to home, back to Godhead, it is not so easy. It is not so easily... We have to make our material life almost zero. Not almost zero*-practically zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. That is wanted, practice. Therefore this, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness center, is meant for practicing this śamo damo titikṣa. Therefore we want to see how far he is eligible to pratice the śamo damo titikṣa. So some new boy come, and as soon as they are given some work, not very good for sense gratification, they go away. That means they are not prepared. It is better they may go away. In Bengal it is said, dusta gorute sunya goaloa(?): "If there is troublesome cows, better keep the cowshed zero, without cow. Don't allow." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for elevating the animal class of men to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Therefore the sacred thread ceremony is given as second initiation, that "He has practiced now śamo damo titikṣa ārjava, and he has learned what is Kṛṣṇa, what he is, what is his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, now how to act for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa." These are brahminical qualification. If one is elevated to this platform This platform is called sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa.

*There are three guṇas*-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. If you remain in the lower platforms, tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa... Tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa means, as I have already explained, greediness and lust, desires. That is tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa. Tato rājas-tamo-bhava kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. What is that rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa? Now, kama, lusty desires, and greediness, not satisfied with the minimum necessities of life, want to increase more and more, more and more. That is called greediness. The Vedic civilization teaches that "Be satisfied with the minimum necessities of life. Don't increase unnecessary necessities of life, and then you have to work for it very hard like hogs and dogs." That's all. Then you have to work very... Modern world, they have increased their unnecessary necessities of life, and therefore you'll find how hard working. In European and American cities we have seen how people are working very hard, beginning from morning at five o'clock till four o'clock next night, for sense gratification. So this is not civilization. This is condemned civilization. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This is not civilization. This is animal civilization, working so hard day and night for eating. That is the business of the hogs and dogs. You will find the hogs and dog, they are loitering on the street whole day and night: "Where is food? Where is sex?" That is not civilization. They must be peaceful brāhmaṇa. Of course, not that everyone can be elevated to the position of a brāhmaṇa, but at least they must have the chance to see that "Here is a class of men, brāhmaṇa." That is wanted. Otherwise the civilization is failure.

*Therefore it is said, na brāhmaṇais tulaye bhūtam anyat [SB 5.5.23]. Actual brāhmaṇa, not the so*-called brāhmaṇa, that was the Vedic culture. Just like Kṛṣṇa Himself. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When He received Sudāmā Vipra, a brāhmaṇa, He immediately vacated His own seat: "My dear friend, sit down here." And Kṛṣṇa's first wife?

Devotee: Rukmiṇī.



*Prabhupāda: Rukmiṇī. He (she) took immediately the camara. He (she) said, "My husband is respecting." But he was dressed very poorly, lean and thin. Brāhmaṇa, because they refuse unnecessary necessities of life, sometimes they look very poor, poverty*-stricken. They are not poverty-stricken. They are the richest. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtiṁ śritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. Those who are engaged in bhajana never think of their poverty. No. They are not poor. Otherwise, if Sudāmā Vipra, externally he looked very poor, lean and thin, not very nice cloth... Kṛṣṇa is: "My dear friend, sit down here." He brought water, washed the feet, just respectable person, guru, brāhmaṇa. This is etiquette. Kṛṣṇa is showing personally. He is the king. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He also respects a brāhmaṇa. When Nārada used to come to Kṛṣṇa, immediately He would get down from the seat and offer obeisances, and Nārada was smiling, "Just see Kṛṣṇa's līlā."



So this is the way, brāhmaṇa. That brāhmaṇa, the India, the brāhmaṇas, their sons later on, later ages, taking advantage of the facility offered to the brāhmaṇas, so without qualification of brāhmaṇa, they wanted the facility for nothing, very cheap. Therefore the brahminical culture is failure now. They are... They should be real brāhmaṇas, śsamo damo. But nobody is prepared to practice śamo damo titikṣa, but he wants the respect of a brāhmaṇa. This is the cause of India's culture being failure at the present moment. They... "First deserve, then desire." So without deserving, they desired. Therefore whole thing is..., it became false. So that is not the purpose. Even somebody says that "Without culture one can remain a brāhmaṇa," but śāstra does not say that. Śāstra says culture is the first consideration.

yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ

varṇābhivyañjakam

yady anyatrāpi vinirdṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

[SB 7.11.35]



*So lakṣaṇam must be, lakṣaṇam, the symptom, what is brāhmaṇas' symptoms. So my request to you, the Europeans and American boys, you have been initiated as brāhmaṇa but you must practice the lakṣaṇa. Otherwise, if you think, puffed up, that "Now I have got the sacred thread. My business is finished. I can do whatever I like," no. That is not. Lakṣaṇam. Lakṣaṇam means symptoms. That you must observe, lakṣaṇam. Yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ proktam. Then nobody can check you. You will be very much dear of Kṛṣṇa. Namo brāhmaṇya*-devāya go brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. If you keep yourself in the platform of a true brāhmaṇa as you are expected... It is not difficult. We have selected the four principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, and no gambling. That's all. If you keep to these practices, then you remain. And if you chant, then above brāhmaṇa, you become Vaiṣṇava. Manmanā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Qualify yourself as a brāhmaṇa. Qualify yourself as a Vaiṣṇava. Then your position is guaranteed. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. Sure. Guranteed.



*Here also said, na brāhmaṇais tulaye bhūtam anyat [SB 5.5.23]. Namo brāhmaṇya*-devāya go brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. So when Kṛṣṇa takes care of you, He..., attention is on you. Then who can...? Māyā's... There is no strength of māyā to touch you. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā may be there. Police may be there. Police is there, so what business I have got with the police if I am honest? If I am properly observing the rules and regulation of the government, what business police has got to touch me? Māyā is there. Māyā must be there. Māyā... (aside:) Don't stop... Māyā is there, but it does not mean māyā can touch you if you are actually surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. So here it is (aside:) Sitting there. So Kṛṣṇa personally will take care. And to come to the brāhmaṇa stage, this is also Everything is described. Everything is prescribed. If you have to follow again and again We can come to the brāhmaṇa stage by a simple method, as we are practicing, that nityaṁ bhāgavata. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. Bhāgavata-sevayā. The book Bhāgavata and the person bhāgavata. Person bhāgavata, the guru, is the symbolic representation of person bhāgavata, whose life is bhāgavata and book Bhāgavata. So you have to serve two bhāgavata, nityaṁ bhāgavata, not the bhāgavata-saptāha. This is another cheating. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. There is no such thing as bhāgavata-saptāha in authoritative literature. They have manufactured as a business. But bhāgavata should be served nityam. Nityaṁ bhāgavata.

*Who can do that? Naṣṭa*-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. By developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness whose sinful life is almost nil, not completely nil but almost nil, prāyeṣu. How? Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. If you engage yourself to serve, to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and to serve the person bhāgavatam. Nityam bhāgavata-sevayā. Bhaktiḥ, uttama-śloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī. Then your bhakti will increase uttama-śloke, to the Supreme. Uttama-śloka means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And when you come to that stage, not that completely pure, almost pure, by nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18], and increasing your devotional service, then you immediately be situated in the brāhmaṇa qualification. As soon as you increase your devotional service by serving person Bhāgavatam and hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, immediately you become situated on the sattva-guṇa. Tato rājas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham [SB 1.2.19]. Then this rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, cannot touch your heart. The whole process is purification of the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Everything is there. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti is there. It is not an artificial thing. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. It is our natural relationship with Kṛṣṇa because we are part and parcel. Just like father and son. Son may be rebelled for some time but the affection between father... [break] ...return... (end)



761111SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.24

-

Vṛndāvana, November 11, 1976



*Pradyumna: "The Vedas are my eternal, transcendental sound incarnation. Therefore the Vedas are śabda*-brahma. In this world, the brāhmaṇas thoroughly study all the Vedas, and because they assimilate the Vedic conclusions, they are also to be considered the Vedas personified. The brāhmaṇas are situated in the supreme transcendental mode of nature, sattva-guṇa. Because of this they are fixed in mind control, or śama; sense control, dama; and truthfulness, or satya. They describe the Vedas in their original sense, and out of mercy, or anugraha, they preach the purpose of the Vedas to all conditioned souls. They practice penance, or tapasya, and tolerance, titikṣa, and they realize the position of the living entity and the Supreme Lord, anubhavaḥ. These are the eight qualifications of the brāhmaṇas. Therefore among all living entities no one is superior to the brāhmaṇas."



Prabhupāda:



dhṛtā tanūr uśatī me purāṇī

yeneha sattvaṁ paramaṁ pavitram

śamo damaḥ satyam anugrahaś ca

tapas titikṣānubhavaś ca yatra

[SB 5.5.24]



*So the meaning is clearly described in the translation. So the brāhmaṇas, why they are accepted as the supreme in the human society? On account of these qualities. We have discussed this point, that either brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, especially dvijottama... The brāhmaṇas are called dvijottama. Dvija-śreṣṭhā. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā. Dvija means twice*-born, one birth by the father and mother and the other birth by Vedic knowledge and spiritual master. Twice-born. So the daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra, purificatory processes... Saṁskarād bhaved dvijaḥ. Unless one undergoes the purificatory process, he cannot be called twice-born. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ: "By birth everyone is a śūdra, fourth-class man." Practically we see that children, they are sent to school. Why they are sent to school? Because by birth he is foolish, abodha-jātaḥ. There is no knowledge. Therefore he should be sent to school, as he makes progress, to colleges, to learn higher, higher. This is the material arrangement.



*The same arrangement for spiritual education... Not that by birth, because one is born of a brāhmaṇa family, he remains a brāhmaṇa although he becomes less than śūdra. No. There must be education. The twice*-born, he must approach the spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Just like the Sattva Satyakāma, Jabala-Satyakāma Upaniṣad. The boy approached Gautama Muni that "Kindly accept me, your disciple. Initiate me." Formerly, without becoming a brāhmaṇa specially, they were not initiated. So in those days all the families were very pure. Therefore born of a brāhmaṇa father is understood that he has got the training of a brāhmaṇa. That is a facility. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. By pious activities or by practice of bhakti-yoga, if one has not completed, yoga-bhraṣṭa, one who falls down from the yoga practice, such person is given another chance to take birth in a nice family, a brāhmaṇa family or a rich mercantile family. The brāhmaṇa family is rich in knowledge, and the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they are rich in opulence, wealth, material riches. And śūdras, they are not rich either in material wealth or in knowledge. Therefore they are called śūdras.

*So this bhakti*-yoga or any yoga... Real yoga, or the first-class class yoga, is bhakti-yoga. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. There are many yogis. Out of them, the bhakta-yogi... Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata āntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. Without becoming a bhakta-yogi, nobody can think of Kṛṣṇa always. That is not possible. Satataṁ kīrtanyanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ. The bhakti-yoga we are teaching in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement twenty-four hours' engagement. Superficially we engage from four o'clock in the morning till ten o'clock at night, and that is resting time. But when one is advanced in devotional service, while sleeping he also serves Kṛṣṇa. That means twenty-four hours, satatam. That depends on Because in sleeping you also dream, so what we do during daytime we dream at night. So if one is cent percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, naturally he'll dream also at night. I have seen one of our intimate relative. He was a businessman, selling cloth. So in dream also he was quoting price of cloth. So that is natural. That is not unnatural. Therefore we have to practice. At the time of death, somehow or other, if we quote the price of Kṛṣṇa, then our life are successful. Therefore we should practice: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. If we practice Kṛṣṇa, then naturally it is expected that at the time of death we remember Kṛṣṇa. Then immediately we are transferred to the Kṛṣṇaloka, immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately. There is no doubt about it. Simple thing, but it requires practice.

*Therefore, to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness we have to practice other things. That is the position of sattvaṁ paramaṁ pavitram. That is called śuddha*-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva-śabditam, there is a verse. Pure goodness. Pure goodness means there is only Vasudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. That is pure sattva, when there is no other conception, simply Vasudeva. Vasudeva is the platform. Just like Vasudeva was the father of Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa appeared, Vasudeva was the father. So śuddha-sattva is Vasudeva. Vasudeva means there is no contamination of ignorance or passion, simply sattva-guṇa. Tato rājas tamo bhāvā kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham. When your mind and consciousness will not be contaminated by the modes of ignorance and passion, that is śuddha-sattva. That is śuddha-sattva. That is spiritual platform, vasudeva. Then Vasudeva will beget Kṛṣṇa. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. So if we purify our existence, another Kṛṣṇa comes or Kṛṣṇa's devotees come. They come in śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ paramaṁ pavitram. Then naturally there is śamo damo titikṣa ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānaṁ āstikyam [Bg. 18.42]. Naturally there is brāhmaṇa behavior. And when one becomes brāhmaṇa, pure, no material contamination, then bhakti appears, after becoming brāhmaṇa or brahma-bhūtaḥ, not material platform. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. In the material platform, jīva-bhūtaḥ. But in the spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ.

*So ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "Yes, I am already Brahman because my constitutional position is part and parcel of Parabrahman." Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ [Bg. 10.12], pavitraṁ paramam, this same thing, pavitraṁ paramam. So naturally, because we are part and parcel of the pavitraṁ paramaṁ, Parabrahman, we are also the same thing, a small particle, aṁśa. Mama aṁśa. Aṁśa and aṁśi. A small grain of gold, by quality it is gold, not that because it is small, it is something else. It is the same thing. Similarly, we are also pavitram, pure, but that small can fall down sometimes and becomes apavitra. So we are just like sparks of fire, so so long we are in the fire, this quality of the spark is also fire. It is also illuminating. It is also has got the quality of burning power, small quantity. But when the spark falls down from the fire it becomes extinguished, the fiery quality. That is our position. We have fallen down from the quality, and we have to revive it. Just like a person becomes diseased. Diseased is not his permanent position. That is a temporary infection. But it can be cured. If one likes, he can cure his disease and again he can become healthy. Similarly, we are fallen somehow or other. "Somehow or other" means the reason is as soon as we become independent, we deny to serve Kṛṣṇa, but we deny to serve Kṛṣṇa*-we want to become independent. Then immediately we are forced by the illusory energy to come under her and work under her direction. We are born servant, jīvera svarūpa haya-nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It is made for the purpose of serving me. This is the purpose. But when it is diseased When it cannot serve the body, then it is diseased. Similarly, our constitutional position is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Jīvera svarūpa haya-nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa. That is real life. And when you don't serve Kṛṣṇa or deny to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is diseased condition. And that is called māyā. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare.

*So we have to cure our disease. This disease means... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means purification of our diseased condition, infectious condition. It is not anything artificial. Nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti śrādhya kabhu naya. Not that by artificial means, as they are making propaganda in Europe and America that we are brainwashing... It is not that by some means or by some artificial, what is called, hypnotism, we are making these European or American boys, girls kṛṣṇa-bhakta. No. It is there already, kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Otherwise why they should take to Kṛṣṇa? They have got their other, I mean to say, worshipable. There is Jesus, Jesus Christ, and others. Mostly they are coming from Christian family. Why they should agree to worship Kṛṣṇa? No, it is there already. It is not that because they are born in Europe and America they are different from Kṛṣṇa's relationship. No.

*Kṛṣṇa claims, ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā. Kṛṣṇa has relationship not only in the human society, in animal society, in bird society, in plant society, in insect society, in demigod society. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. He doesn't claim that "I am interested with the Indians," or "the Hindus" or "the brāhmaṇas," or "this." No. He claims all forms of body. So therefore these foreigners, so-called foreigners, they have got already relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Every living entity has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. How they can be separate? It is not possible. But they forgot it. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to revive their original consciousness. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye... "Oh, I am Kṛṣṇa's." As soon as this consciousness comes, he becomes perfect. It is already there. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti śrādhya kabhu naya, śravaṇādi.

*And this revival of original consciousness can be executed by hearing, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. It is possible. Therefore we stress on the point of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. And actually it is happening. When I went to New York there was no Kṛṣṇa*-bhakta at all, a single man. So how so many Kṛṣṇa-bhaktas have come out? By this same process,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nive...

[SB 7.5.23]



*This is bhakti process. So anywhere, in Africa also, in the village of Africa, when our Brahmānanda goes there, the big, big Africans with earrings, big, big earrings, very tall, almost naked, they also dance, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." So this is practical. Nitya*-yukta kṛṣṇa-bhakti.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this opportunity that simply by chanting... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not manufactured it. It is mentioned in the śāstra. No other... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He does not introduce anything by manufacturing, just like nowadays these rascals do. There is no question of manufacturing. Whatever is there already in the śāstra, indication, we have to follow. Yaḥ śāstra*-viddhim utsṛjya vartate... Otherwise there is no success. Kṛṣṇa also said śāstra. Kṛṣṇa is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He refers to the Brahma-sūtra. Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitam. So we cannot go beyond the śāstra. We must follow. So in the śāstra it is said, in the Kali-yuga people are so fallen, they cannot be persuaded to so many rules and regulation, but kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Simply that is special facility for these fallen... You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa regularly and you become liberated from the material contamination. And as soon as you become liberated, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. We have no distinction that "Here is American," "There is European," "Here is Indian," "Here is African." No. Samaḥ sarveṣu, even animals. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then bhakti begins. That is practical.

*So that is śuddha*-sattva. Śamo damo satyaṁ anugraha. The brāhmaṇa's business is anugraha, to be just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja is unhappy for others. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān: [SB 7.9.43] "I am thinking of these rascals. They are making so many gorgeous arrangements, big, big skyscraper, big, big roads, and thousands of motorcars." Māyā-sukhāya. "They will enjoy this life for fifty years, sixty years, thirty years, and making big, big arrangement." Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān: [SB 7.9.43] "I am thinking of these rascals, that they forget the real business, what is the problem of life. They are busy in erecting, constructing big, big skyscrapers." Not only now, formerly also the vimūḍhān, the rascals... Viśeṣa mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa says, mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍha. And Prahlāda Mahārāja stresses more, vimūḍhān, first-class mūḍhas. Yes. Vimūḍhān. So anyone who does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and is busy in other business, he's a vimūḍhān. Don't remain a vimūḍhān. Become intelligent. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje sei baḍa catur. Be the first-class intelligent man and be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Thank you very much. (end)



761112SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.25

-

Vṛndāvana, November 12, 1976



Pradyumna: "I am fully opulent, almighty, and superior to Lord Brahmā and Indra, the king of the heavenly planets. I am also the bestower of all happiness obtained in the heavenly kingdom and by liberation. Nonetheless, brāhmaṇas do not seek material comforts from Me. They are very pure and do not want to possess anything. They simply engage in My devotional service. What is the need of their asking for material benefits from anyone else?"



Prabhupāda:



matto 'py anantāt parataḥ parasmāt

svargāpavargādhipater na kiñcit

yeṣāṁ kim u syād itareṇa teṣām

*akiñcanānāṁ mayi bhakti*-bhājām

[SB 5.5.25]



*So devotional life, bhakti*-yoga, is so exalted that they do not care for heavenly planet, apavarga, mukti, liberation. They do not care. Insignificant. That śloka of Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he realized this, that kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. The liberation of becoming one with the Supreme is called kaivalyam, kevalādvaitam, oneness. So for a devotee it is as good as the hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. And then? What about heavenly planets, Svargaloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapoloka? Ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tri-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāya. In Bengal there is one word, ghorabdin (?), means "no value." Just like horse. Horse never give any egg, but it is said, "It is as good as the egg of horse." That means "There is no such thing, insignificant." So ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Ākāśa-puṣpāyate means it has no value. Simply imagination. Actually that is the fact. Suppose if you go to Svargaloka, become Indra. So that is not permanent by pious activities you can become Brahmā, Indra, and so many demigods. You can hold that post. But ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino arjuna. Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, what is the benefit? Again you have to come back. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. Similarly, even you go to the Brahman effulgence, brahmajyoti, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. That is called paraṁ padam. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. Again you fall down.



*Therefore for a devotee, akiñcanānām, they all neglect all these things. They don't care for all these things. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tri*-daśa pūr ākāśa puṣpāya. Durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī proṭkhāta-daṁstrāyate viṣvaṁ pūrna-sukhāyate. They are Karmī, jñānī, yogi, they are feeling that "This material world is full of distresses. Let us take relief from this and become one." Karmī is trying to go to the Svargaloka; jñānīs want to go to the brahmajyoti. The yogis also, they desire like that because they do not feel very comfortable within this material world. But a devotee, there is no such thing that in the material world they are uncomfortable. No. Why? Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, wherever there is Nārāyaṇa, that is all right. That is the view of the devotional service.

*nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

*svargāpavarga*-narakeṣv

*api tulyārtha*-darśinaḥ

[SB 6.17.28]



*Nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ, they are not anxious either to go to Svargaloka or to refrain from it. They are satisfied: "Wherever Kṛṣṇa keeps me, that is all right. Never mind whether it is heaven or hell." Because he has got Kṛṣṇa within him. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. He is concerned with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Premāñjana-cchurita.



*So wherever Supreme Personality of Godhead is there, that is Vaikuṇṭha. Just like īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is there in every living entity's heart. So the hog, dog, they have got also heart. There is also Kṛṣṇa. So does it mean that He is living with hog and dog? He is living in Vaikuṇṭha. Etad īśanam īśasya. This is called īśasya īśanam. Wherever He may live, He lives in Vaikuṇṭha. Similarly, the devotee, he lives with Nārāyaṇa, so there is no question of hell and heaven. He is in Vaikuṇṭha. If Kṛṣṇa is living in Vaikuṇṭha, the devotee is also living in Vai... He is concerned with Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa. Therefore they are not afraid. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. Nārada Muni, he is traveling everywhere. He is going to hell; he is going to heaven. He is going to Vaikuṇṭha to see Nārāyaṇa. And he's chanting, nārada muni bhājāy vīṇā rādhikā ramaṇa, that's all. Because he is chanting for... His business is to enlighten. If he goes to naraka, hell, he will advise them, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And if he goes to Indraloka he will advise the same thing. And if he goes to Svargaloka, or any loka, that is Nārada Muni's business. Similarly, those who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should not be afraid of this hell and heaven. Wherever they should go, they will simply preach, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is their business.

*Therefore, itareṇa teṣām akiñcanānāṁ mayi bhakti-bhājām. But one has to become akiñcana-nothing material, simply the lotus feet of the Lord. Just like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-yuta. He is praying, nanda-suta, "Kṛṣṇa," vṛṣabhānu-sutā-yuta, "along with Rādhārāṇī." Vṛṣabhānu-sutā is Rādhārāṇī. Karuṇa karaha ei-bāra: "Just be merciful upon me." Narottama-dāsa kahe, nā ṭheliho rāṅgā pāy: "I am fully surrendered unto You. You don't throw me away." Nā ṭheliho rāṅgā. Tomā bine ke āche āmāra. And this is wanted. "I have nothing except Your lotus feet." This is akiñcana, akiñcana, "no other thing except Your So how You can throw me away? Give me shelter." This is akiñcana bhakti-bhājām. If I think that "I have got another shelter except Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet," then I am not akiñcana. Kiñcana*-I have got some other hope. No. Akiñcana means only hope: Kṛṣṇa. That is full surrender. Akiñcanānāṁ bhakti-bhājām. Akiñcana-gocara. Kuntidevī in her prayer she has addressed Kṛṣṇa, akiñcana-gocara: "You are realized by such person who has no other thing to possess." Akiñcana-gocara. This very word is very And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, niṣkiñcanānām. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajana means niṣkiñcana. If we want to enjoy something material, oh, there is no question of bhagavad-bhajana, because even if you have little pinch of desire to enjoy material comforts, you'll not be admitted. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Fully. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Then Śūnya means zero. Unless you make material, ara nare bapa(?): "No more. Enough of this mateial enjoyment," then bhakti-yoga begins. Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Even brahma-bhūtaḥ, Brahman realization, that is also not akiñcana. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am in brahmajyoti. I have become something important." No. Even brahmajyoti also neglected. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. This is the position of the devotee, akiñcanānām. Akiñcanānāṁ mayi bhakti-bhājām.

*So bhakti, devotional service, is not easy, but at the same time very easy, one moment's business, one moment's. But I must be willing. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. If I do it, immediately... But that, I am not willing. We have seen so many persons. Kṛṣṇa says directly that "You surrender unto Me," sarva-dharmān parityajya. Still, he says, "When Kṛṣṇa will be merciful, then I shall do." What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa is directly asking you. Again He has to become merciful? What kind of mercy? These are all pleas, different pleas. Actually He doesn't want that "I shall not surrender unto You, sir. I shall place some pleas. That's all." In that way... When we become actually niṣkiñcana or akiñcana, then, as Caitanya Mahaprabhu advises, niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajanonmukha means niṣkiñcana. Param... What is that bhagavad-bhajana? Pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. Bhava-sāgara. This ocean. Sāgara means ocean, and bhava means take birth, again die. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. That is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, Kṛṣṇa says. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. This is bhagavad-bhajana. We do not know how many times we have taken birth and again died. That's a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Millions and millions, for years, we are doing that. Mṛtyu saṁsāra. Still, we are so shameless, we want to do again and again that thing. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30].

*This word is used, punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām. I have enjoyed this material life, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Eating, sleeping, sex, and bhaya is everywhere. A small insect up to Brahmā or Indra, this is the business. So people do not want to stop this business. They want to improve the business. "I am eating now without any plate, and if I can eat on the golden plate," they are thinking, "this is advancement of civilization." So the eating process... Eating means kṣut nivṛtti tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ. Tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ kṣut nivṛtti. When one is hungry, when he eats something, according to the taste... A gentleman is eating halavā, purī, and the hog is eating stool. So the taste and tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ kṣut nivṛtti is the same. Either you eat halavā, purī or stool, you are eating according to the taste. Just like in the airplane we sit down. They are asking, "Sir, what can I...?" We say, "We refuse." We don't touch anything in the airplane because we know what is that. And the next man, he is eating very nicely the intestine of hog. We have seen it. He is very nicely eating with spoon and fork, very enjoying. And we are saying, "Oh, what nasty thing he is eating." We don't, do not touch even what is offered. So why? We are taking whatever little things we have taken with us. But the result is the same, tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ kṣut nivṛtti. You are hungry, you take something, so your appetite will decrease and your satisfaction will increase. You will get strength. Tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ kṣut nivṛtti. So this is not improvement. Eating by the hog and eating by the human being, the result is the same. Tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ kṣut nivṛtti. But eating the intestines of the hog or eating halavā, puri, it does not make any difference. Ei bhāla, ei manda' saba 'manodharma'. In this material world, "This is good and this is bad," this is all mental concoction. 'Dvaite' bhadrābhadra-sakali samana.

*So we should not be attached. We should completely give up anything material. That is niṣkiñcana. We have no business with anything material, either in the golden plate or on the street, on the floor. It does not make any difference. Our business is how to accept the prasādam, what Kṛṣṇa has eaten, that is our concern. We are not interested with the intestine of hogs or halavā, puri. No. We are interested to eat which is already accepted by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa bara dayāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay, sva*-prasād-anna dilo bhāi. Our business is that "Kṛṣṇa is so kind..." The Kṛṣṇa prasāda, those who are eating Kṛṣṇa prasāda, they are enjoying everything. Kṛṣṇa bara dayāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay. We have got thousands of nice preparation. Why should we go to the hotel and restaurant? There are so many nice preparation offered to Kṛṣṇa. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ. Kṛṣṇa is ready to accept from a devotee whatever he offers, but within the limitation. Otherwise he will bring hog's intestine. That is not desired. If people say, "Whatever I eat, I can offer to Kṛṣṇa..." There is a class, they say, "Whatever I eat you can offer." But that is not the process. The process is you must offer to Kṛṣṇa what He wants. Just like you invite one gentleman. You ask him, "What can I offer you?" That is etiquette. Not that however rascal you bring, and one has to eat. No. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi: [Bg. 9.26] "I eat that." How He can eat? The atheist class will see: "Oh, you are offering so many nice foodstuff, but it is lying there. He is not eating." But he does not know the process of eating by Kṛṣṇa. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti paśyanti pānti kalayanti [Bs. 5.32]. He can eat by His eyes. He can eat by touching. And even if He eats the whole thing, again He can keep the whole thing. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. The atheist cannot see, but devotee, he can know that "Kṛṣṇa is eating, and the prasādam we shall take."

*So bhakti*-bhājām. So we have to learn what is bhakti. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. If actually we advance in devotional service, then naturally viraktir anyatra syāt. That is niṣkiñcana, no more taste with the material world. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. We must know why we shall take to devotional service, pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor, not to remain within this material world. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58]. Here in the material world, padaṁ padaṁ vipadām. Every step there is vipada; *there is danger. So don't think that "She is dying" or "He is dying, and I shall not die." Everyone will have to die. Every step, there is danger of dying. It is not that The bhute pare gobar hasi(?). Everyone has to die. So before that death we must become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious so that ante nārāyaṇa*-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. The end will come today or tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Nobody will live here. But the success is if we can remember Nārāyaṇa at the end of life. That is success. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ. We should practice that. Don't bother about that "I shall die tomorrow. You are dying today, so I am better than you." Nobody will live here. Everyone will die, and we must be prepared for death. And the devotee has no fear for dying because if he is completely surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then he is going back to him. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa.

*And what is that surrendering? Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. Without any doubt. He is giving assurance. Four things only. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. Anyone can do it. Everyone can offer Kṛṣṇa patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ [Bg. 9.26]. Everyone can hear from Kṛṣṇa what is Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we want enjoyment in this material world. That is the difficulty. Therefore it is recommended that akiñcanānāṁ mayi bhakti-bhājām. For a devotee there is no problem. He is not attracted by liberation or by Svargaloka, by yogic perfection. He is not at all interested. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmi-sakali 'aśānta'. Because they cannot get śānti because they want something The bhukti, the karmīs, they are working so hard. They want some material profit or go to the Svargaloka to enjoy more. This is bhukti. And mukti, they are also undergoing severe austerities, penance, tapasya, for becoming one. Kaivalya sukham. Kevalādvaita. They are also working. And the yogis, they also work very hard. Yoga practice is not so easy. Dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, samādhi. It requires And especially in this age it is not so easy. It was easier in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu [SB 12.3.52]. Samādhi, that was possible. And now it is not possible. Our bhakti-yoga is so easy, simply man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], very simple thing. So we should take to bhakti, devotional service, and reject everything. Niṣkiñcana. That will make your life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



761113SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.26

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Vṛndāvana, November 13, 1976



Pradyumna: "My dear sons, you should not envy any living entity, be he moving or nonmoving. Knowing that I am situated in them, you should offer resects to all of them at every moment. In this way you offer respect to Me." [SB 5.5.26]



Prabhupāda: You read the purport.



*Pradyumna: "In this verse the word vivikta*-dṛgbhiḥ, meaning "without envy," is used. [break] ...living entities are the abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His Paramātmā feature. As confirmed in Brahma-saṁhitā: aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. The Lord is situated in this universe as Garbhodakśayī Viṣṇu and Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. He is also situated within every atom. According to the Vedic statement, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. The Supreme Lord is situated everywhere, and wherever He is situated is His temple. We even offer respects to a temple from a distant place, and all living entites should similarly be offered respect. This is different from the theory of pantheism, which holds that everything is God. Everything has a relationship with God because God is situated everywhere. We should not make any particular distinction between the poor and the rich like the foolish worshipers of daridra-nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa is present in the rich as well as the poor. One should not simply think Nārāyaṇa is situated among the poor. He is everywhere. An advanced devotee will offer respects to everyone-even to cats and dogs.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śvapāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*"The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog*-eater or outcaste." (Bg 5.18) This sama-darśinaḥ, equal vision, should not be mistaken to mean that the individual is the same as the Supreme Lord. They are always distinct. Every individual person is different from the Supreme Lord. It is a mistake to equate the individual living entity with the Supreme Lord on the plea of vivikta-dṛk, sama-dṛk. The Lord is always in an exalted position, even though He agrees to live everywhere. Śrīla Madhvācārya, quoting Padma Purāṇa, states, vivikta-dṛṣṭi-jīvānāṁ dhiṣṇyatayā parameśvarasya bheda-dṛṣṭiḥ: "One who has clear vision and who is devoid of envy can see that the Supreme Lord is separate from all living entities, although He is sitauted in every living entity." Madhvācārya further quotes from Padma Purāṇa,



upapādayet parātmānaṁ

jīvebhyo yaḥ pade pade

bhedenaiva na caitasmāt

priyo viṣṇos tu kaścana



*"One who sees the living entity and the Supreme Lord as always distinct is very dear to the Lord." Padma Purāṇa also states, yo hareś caiva jīvānāṁ bheda*-vaktā hareḥ priyaḥ: "One who preaches that the living entities are separate from the Supreme Lord is very dear to Lord Viṣṇu."



Prabhupāda:



*sarvāṇi mad*-dhiṣṇyatayā bhavadbhiś

carāṇi bhūtāni sutā dhruvāṇi

sambhāvitavyāni pade pade vo

*vivikta*-dṛgbhis tad u hārhaṇaṁ me



*So premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. The atheist class men, they say that "I do not see God. How can I believe there is God?" But the advanced devotee, he sees every moment God's presence. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva [Bs. 5.38]. He doesn't say that "I do not see God." Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti yaṁ śyāmasundaram. And what is that God? It is not manufactured God. Śyāmasundaram, Kṛṣṇa. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram. It is particularly mentioned. God means śyāmasundaram. This is also..., appears to be contradictory. Śyāmasundaram. We have got idea: what is black is not beautiful. But here Kṛṣṇa, Śyāmasundaram. Although He is black, He is sundaram. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. Asitāmbuda, black cloud. Black cloud, like that, color, but He is very sundaram. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobham [Bs. 5.30]. He's so beautiful that if you compare with millions of Kandarpa, Cupid Cupid is supposed to be very beautiful. So if you bring together millions of Cupids, still, their combined beauty cannot be compared with Kṛṣṇa's beauty. But He's still Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgaṁ, kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.30].



So it is required that we develop our attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Then every moment you'll see Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of asking anybody, "Can you show me Kṛṣṇa? Can you show me God?" You will see automatically. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. You cannot ask Kṛṣṇa, "Please come here. I'll see You," just like you ask your dog or your servant. Kṛṣṇa is nobody's servant. Kṛṣṇa is the master. He may like you; *He may not like. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. He is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu cayān... But He is not visible to the nondevotees. That is the... Unless you are devotee, you cannot see. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. So that bhakti must be there.

*So Kṛṣṇa is present here in this temple. This temple is meant for this purpose, that you come here, see Kṛṣṇa, and become attached to Him. Then you will see Him twenty*-four hours. This is the process. Not that, I have several times explained, that this Kṛṣṇa is marble statue. No. This is nārakī-buddhiḥ. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti buddhir, nārakī buddhiḥ. Nārakī buddhiḥ. This is warned. Kṛṣṇa is here. Kṛṣṇa is here in the temple, but He has come mercifully to be seen by you. Otherwise you are blind; *you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. But He has appeared as arcā*-vigraha so that You are accustomed to see wood and stone, so He appears in your visible form, but He is Kṛṣṇa. You will understand He is Kṛṣṇa present when you have got enough love for Him.

*So as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that,

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*This is the way. You increase your attachment, see Kṛṣṇa in the temple, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65], think of Kṛṣṇa, and chant Kṛṣṇa's name and offer obeisances Kṛṣṇa. These things you can teach even to the small children. They can be practiced to see Kṛṣṇa and increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. But this bhakti-yoga should be practiced not from the nondevotees. Then it will be not possible. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogam..., mad-āśrayaḥ. Not jñānīs' āśraya or yogis' āśraya, no. Then you'll never be able to see. Mad-āśraya. Either you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa... You cannot take shelter of Kṛṣṇa directly, that is not possible, but one who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, you can take shelter of him. That is mad-āśrayaḥ, one, mat-āśrayaḥ: "a person who has taken shelter of Me." That means His devotee, a pure Vaiṣṇava, a Vaiṣṇava guru. You have to take shelter of. Then you can practice bhakti-yoga. Then never mind what you are. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ [SB 2.4.18]. If you take shelter of a devotee of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, then śuddhyanti-you'll be purified. Śuddhyanti. How it is possible that...? He's born in low-grade family, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā. How he became so purified that he can see? Now prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. This is Kṛṣṇa's influence. He can do that. If you take shelter, upāśrayāśrayāḥ, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased to reveal Himself. That is Kṛṣṇa's special power, Viṣṇu's special power. He can be seen even by the kirāta-hūṇāndhra andhra, and He cannot be seen even by the most purified brāhmaṇa. That is His option. He is not exposed to be seen by everyone. That is not possible.



*So we have to learn through bhakti*-yoga how to see Kṛṣṇa, how to understand Him. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. These are required. You cannot jump over Kṛṣṇa and see Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. So everything is sitting place of Kṛṣṇa. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He is even within the atom, so why not within yourself? He is everywhere. This vision should be developed. And vivikta-dṛgbhis tad ahārhaṇam. If you see in that way, that Kṛṣṇa is everywhere present But that presence can be experienced by love and devotion. There is no other way.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



761114SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.27

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Vṛndāvana, November 14, 1976



*Pradyumna: "The true activity of the sense organs-mind, sight, words and all the knowledge-gathering and working senses*-is to engage fully in My service. Unless his senses are thus engaged, a living entity cannot think of getting out of the great entanglement of material existence, which is exactly like Yamarāja's stringent rope."



Prabhupāda:



*mano*-vaco-dṛk-karaṇehitasya

*sākṣāt*-kṛtaṁ me paribarhaṇaṁ hi

*vinā pumān yena mahā*-vimohāt

*kṛtānta*-pāśān na vimoktum īśet

[SB 5.5.27]



*So the entanglement is made by the senses. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung that śarīra avidyā*-jāl, joḍendriya tāhe kāl, jīve phele viṣaya-sāgore. This body is covering of ignorance, śarīra avidyā-jāl. Everyone has got a material body, and according to the different proportion of ignorance (aside:) This child is so crying. From three miles we can hear. Balanaṁ rodanaṁ balam. This is strength of the children, crying. They can disturb the whole world (laughter) simply by crying. So just see. This is the body, immediately. You cannot cry like that. Even if you are aggrieved, you cannot cry so loudly that up to four miles one can hear. That is not possible. Why it is not possible? Because he has got a different body and you have got a different. Everything is going on according to the body. This is mahā-vimoha. This is going on, 8,400,000's of different forms of body according to mano, vaca, dṛk, karaṇa, etc. This body is the entanglement, and the senses are the instruments, and we are acting with the senses and we creating another type of body. This is going on. Śarīra avidyā-jāl, joḍendriya tāhe kāl.



*Therefore the first business is how to purify the senses. Bhakti means that. Bhakti, devotional service, means purifying the senses. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said... What is that verse, the body and the senses? I forget now.

Hari-śauri: Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ?



*Prabhupāda: Ah, very good. Thank you. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ [Bg. 3.42]. These are finer. This body means indriya, and finer than the indriyas is the mind. And finer than the mind is intelligence. And finer than the intelligence is the soul, very minute part and parcel of the Supersoul. That is also mentioned: keśāgra-śata*-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. So minute, you cannot imagine. Keṣa agra, the tip of the hair, it is a small point. Divide into ten thousand, then you can get an idea what is the measurement of the soul. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya, jīva bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Everything, measurement, is there. It is not that without body. It is. There is body. And the impetus is coming from there. Intelligence is working, then mind is producing the senses, and the senses are transforming into a gross body. This is material existence. How finely it is. Where is the science? The rascal do not know except this body. Dehātma buddhi.



*Therefore one who sticks to this body only, gross body, atheist class... Just like in our country the Carvaka, he says, bhasmī*-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "Why you are thinking of next birth? It is not possible. We see this gross body is burnt into ashes. And where is the soul? Who is coming back again? Don't care for all these things. Live happily. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." Yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. This philosophy is going on: "There is no mind, there is no intelligence, there is no soul, only this gross body, and so long we possess this gross body, let us enjoy the senses." But this is called, it is described, mahā-vimoha. This is the greatest bewilderment, mahā-vimoha. So because people have no education how we are existing in this material world, vimohana, vimūḍha, prakṛti, how nature is working Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā [Bg. 3.27]. Vimūḍhātmā. Mahā-vimoha. This rascal is thinking that there is no other life. That is not the fact. It is very great entanglement.

*So intelligent person, they will try to get out of this śarīra avidyā*-jāl, joḍendriya tāhe kāl, to get out of these gross senses. Senses are there. The spirit soul is a person. Person. As Kṛṣṇa is person... Just like the father is person, the child is also person. It cannot be otherwise. Or if the child is a person, the father must be a person. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. So all living entities, we experience it, that we are all persons. Even a small insect, a small ant, it is a person. An ant is going this way. If you stop, it will struggle: "Why you are stopping me?" That is person. It will try its best to go this way and this way to avoid your checking. You will find it by practical experience. Even a small ant, it has got all the propensities. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna, these propensities, eating, sleeping, sex, and fearing, you will find everywhere. Viṣayaḥ sarvataḥ puruṣya(?). Viṣaya. Viṣaya does not mean to become rich man. Viṣaya means enjoyment of the senses. That is called viṣaya. Viṣaya chāriyā, se rase majiyā, mukhe bolo hari hari. This is instruction, that we can chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, we can chant the holy name of the Lord, purely, without offense. Because if we can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra once only-if it is pure-then immediately you become liberated. Ekara hari name yata pāpa hare, pāpi haya tata pāpa karibāre nare. Hari-nāma is so powerful that once chanting, immediately vanquishes the accumulated sinful reaction of millions of lives. Pāpi haya tata pāpa karibāre. Every pāpi, sinful man, is very expert in committing sinful activities. But hari-nāma is so expert that once chanted, the pāpi, the sinful man, will be failure to commit sin anymore.

*But the difficulty is that we cannot come to the pure stage of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Due to our past habits our mind is disturbed. We cannot concentrate. Therefore we have fixed up the minimum. We cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. That is not possible. If somebody imitates Haridāsa Ṭhākura... We can see this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and smoking bidi. We can understand what is the position. The offense is going on. Therefore we should try to avoid the ten kinds of offenses. Of course, in the beginning the offenses will continue. But chanting, chanting, chanting, chanting, as soon as we become purified Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. By chanting, chanting, chanting repeatedly, when our, the core of heart will be cleansed, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, then immediately bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, this mahā-vimoha... This is mahā... This is bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. They do not know that what kind of position we are now passing through. Kṛṣṇa says the same thing, mṛtyu saṁsāra vartmani. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu saṁsāra vartmani [Bg. 9.3].

So we are rascals, we do not know what is that mṛtyu saṁsāra vartmani. We have dismissed everything, all instruction of the śāstra, all instruction of Kṛṣṇa, all instruction of guru. We have all dismissed, "Oh, these are all mythology. There is no life after death." This is going on, maha... Ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā. Vimudhātmā. This is the position. We should understand that what is our position. But they have become so dull, just like a stone or a tree. You cut it; *it does not respond, does nothing. But if there is life, little pinching*-immediately, "Why you are pinching?" That is the difference between life and dead body, or jada and cetana. So long one is not conscious, he's as good as the stone or the wood. Therefore sometimes Vaiṣṇava poets say that amāra lid pasanta bolo na, pasan hole bolo yato(?). We have created such a strong heart of material existence that it does not respond even after suffering so much. This is our position.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring him to the right position of consciousness. Consciousness we have got. The more it is covered, dull, it cannot respond. But it can be brought into the proper existence, and the process is hearing, hearing. Go on hearing, hearing. Kṛṣṇa has given us one chance, this ear. If we properly use it... Therefore Vedic knowledge is to be heard, hearing. Listen. It is therefore called śruti. The Vedic instruction has to be gotten from the right person through aural reception.

*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



So this is the process, that we should engage our ear to receive the knowledge, Vedic knowledge, very attentively. And therefore we have to approach to the proper person and inquire and hear. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Not to hear like animal, but paripraśnena sevaya. Then our knowledge will be developed. This is the process.



*So mano*-vaco-dṛk-karaṇehitasya sākṣāt-kṛtaṁ me paribarhaṇaṁ hi. So we can worship the Lord by mind, by words, by seeing, and all senses. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. (aside:) You sit down. Yes. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhakti ucyate. Bhakti means hṛṣīka. Hṛṣīka means the senses, karaṇa. Mano-vaca. Mind is the king of the senses. So mind is also one of the senses. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Mind and the indriyas combined together, we are trying to be happy in this material world, but there is no happiness, simply struggling. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho bhuṇkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. He is put into this prakṛti, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhi, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. So we are put into this prakṛti. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhi mano. These are material. There is also mana. Mind is subtle matter; it is not spirit. So in this way, separated energy and the jīva, the living entity, although he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, he wanted to enjoy life separately or independently without Kṛṣṇa, and that is called material world, struggle for existence. Without Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he has to come to Kṛṣṇa if he wants to stop his struggle for existence with mind and senses, then he must come to Kṛṣṇa. That is the natural position.

*But these rascals are not taught about Kṛṣṇa, but they are already in ignorance and they are kept into ignorance. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. The rascals, they do not know that his real self-interest is how to approach Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, therefore comes personally just to show His causeless mercy upon them, to exhibit Himself, how He can be friend to everyone. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntiṁ ṛcchati. If you want śānti, then you must accept Kṛṣṇa, suhṛdaḥ. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaraṁ, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. He is friend of everyone; *therefore He comes. He is not only friend of Arjuna. Arjuna is symbolic friend. He is instructing Arjuna, Bhagavad*-gītā, His friend, but He is friend of everyone. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām.

*So we must take advantage of the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā. It is not meant for... Arjuna is already liberated, but he is placing himself as one of us just to take the lessons of Kṛṣṇa for the benefit of the whole world. And Arjuna, who is living with Kṛṣṇa as friend not only in one life... Bahūni me janmāni vyatītāni tava cārjuna. So Arjuna is always with Kṛṣṇa. He cannot be in ignorance. Kṛṣṇa-sūrya-sama, māyā andhakāra, yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra [Cc. Madhya 22.31]. Who is constantly living with Kṛṣṇa, he has no ignorance, but he's putting himself as ignorant. Just like Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is asking question from Rāmānanda Rāya. Does it mean that Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not know, Rāmānanda Rāya No. Just to make a scene that how we can get knowledge from hearing from the authorities Similarly, Arjuna placed himself. It is a theatrical stage, that ignorant. But actually he is liberated. When Arjuna was advised to practice haṭha-yoga, he said, "Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me."

cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa

pramāthi balavad dṛḍhaṁ

tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye

vāyor iva suduṣkaram

[Bg. 6.34]



*"I cannot do this." He was frank enough. Or on behalf of us he said frankly that "It is impossible," at least in the Kali*-yuga, "to control the mind." Yoga indriya saṁyamaḥ. It is not possible. Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham [Bg. 6.34]. Five thousand years, Arjuna is denying to accept this yogic process. "It is not possible to give that. I am a politician. I am a military man. I have to fight. I have to see so many things. How can I control my mind? It is not possible."



So that is fact. This controlling the mind by the yogic process, by meditation, is impossible. [break] ...read so many śāstras, the essence of the śāstra. That is the duty of the ācārya. The essence of the śāstra should be presented to the fools and rascals so that, just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he presented himself before His guru that guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana: [Cc. Ādi 7.71] "My guru found Me a great rascal." Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a rascal, but He presented Himself as a rascal because we are rascals. These people of this age, they are all rascals. Therefore he presented Himself, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana: "My guru saw Me a great rascal; *therefore he has asked Me, chastised Me, that 'You rascal, You cannot understand Vedānta. You cannot read even.' " Mūrkha tumi nāhi tomāra vedānta adhikāra: "You cannot read Vedānta." That means the rascals of this age, what they will understand Vedānta? He will simply misrepresent. They will simply mislead the persons. You see so many big, big politicians, scholars, simply misleading people from Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken on the battlefield, and they want to prove that it is nonviolence. In this way people are being misled.

*Therefore avoid this rascal process, to read something and interpret in a different way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to do that. Guru more mūrkha dekhi karila śāsana. So we should not try to become very learned scholar by misreading the Vedic literature. Take the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not Caitanya Mahāprabhu*-the śāstra, the Bṛhad-nāradīya Purāṇa. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya. Sādhu will not speak anything which is not in the śāstra. That is sādhu. Sādhu cannot manufacture anything. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir...

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa as many times as possible and be liberated.



Thank you very much. (end)



761115SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.28

-

Vṛndāvana, November 15, 1976



*Pradyumna: "Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: Thus the great well*-wisher of everyone, the Supreme Lord, Ṛṣabhadeva, instructed His own sons. Although they were perfectly educated and cultured, He instructed them just to set an example of how a father should instruct his sons before retiring from family life. Sannyāsīs, who are no longer bound by fruitive activity and who have taken to devotional service after all their material desires have been vanquished, also learn by these instructions. Lord Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His one hundred sons, of whom the eldest, Bharata, was a very advanced devotee and a follower of Vaiṣṇavas. In order to rule the whole world, the Lord enthroned His eldest son on the royal seat. Thereafter, although still at home, Lord Ṛṣabhadeva lived like a madman, naked and with disheveled hair. Then the Lord took the sacrificial fire within Himself, and He left Brahmavarta to tour the whole world."



Prabhupāda:



*evam anuśāsyātmajān svayam anuśiṣṭān api loka*-anuśāsanārthaṁ mahānubhāvaḥ...

[SB 5.5.28]



*Here the important point is about monarchy. There are different types of government, of which monarchy is the most prominent style. Formerly everywhere, all over the world, the monarchy was prevalent. Even up to date some of the countries, they are maintaining monarchy but only in name actually. The monarch has no power. So monarchy is good so long the king is as ideal as Bharata Mahārāja, Ṛṣabhadeva, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Lord Rāmacandra. That is the perfect type of monarchy. We have description of Rāma*-rājya. We have got the word nowadays. They sometimes use Rāma-rājya party, but without Rāma. This is their policy. Where is that Rāma? When Lord Rāmacandra returned from the forest, His brother, Bharata, was ruling as a saintly person. But as soon as the eldest brother came back, He entreated that "Now You sit down on the throne." But He first of all tested what kind of people in generally there are in the Ayodhyā. So when He understood that all the citizens, they are strictly following the varṇāśrama-dharma, then He agreed to accept the throne.



*So both ways. The king should be ideal, as here it is, paramahaṁsa. Mahānubhāvaḥ. So, and the prajā should be also strictly following varṇāśrama dharma. Then this world will be happy. Otherwise it is not possible. Not one sided. "The king is not good. Dethrone him. Kill him," and some rascals and fools in the name of democracy, they occupy the seat. What benefit will be there? The whole thing has to be changed, the prajās and the king. The advantage of democracy is there. By votes you can elect somebody as president. One has to follow the principle, monarch, one man on the head of the government. It may be a monarch or it may be a president*-it doesn't matter-but there must be one chief executive officer on the head. That you cannot avoid. That is essential. Therefore if we do not have an ideal president or ideal king on the head and the prajās also, the citizens, they do not follow the varṇāśrama, then there cannot be any peace.

*The peace formula is given in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that,

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*This is the peace formula. People should know that who is ultimately the proprietor. We are claiming the proprietorship of this land, but we are not proprietor actually. Actually the proprietor is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He said, sarva*-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Unfortunately we are claiming God's property as our own. That means we are thieves. There is United Nation to formulate peace of the world, but truly speaking, it is an assembly of thieves and rogues. How there can be peace? The people must be trained up to know who is the proprietor. If the United Nation immediately accepts that this whole planet is the property of God and we are simply sons of God, not only human being but also the animals, the trees, the plants... There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities, and Kṛṣṇa claims, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father." And we, all living entities, we are sons of the supreme proprietor. Let us enjoy the father's property without encroaching upon other's share. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam.



*But they will not accept it. They will artificially create some assembly of rogues and thief and pass resolution for fifty years but no peace. They want to be united, but flags are increasing daily. We have seen in New York the flags are increasing. Actually, during Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time there was one flag only, and people were controlled by the Pāṇḍava kings all over the world, and they were peaceful. During the battle of Kurukṣetra, it was a family fight, so all the people of the world, they joined this side or that side. The Bhāratavarṣa means under the name of Bharata Mahārāja, who is mahānubhāvaḥ... He is not ordinary person. Bharataṁ parama*-bhāgavatam bhagavaj-jana-parāyaṇam. Bhagavaj-jana. He is the follower of devotees, bhagavaj-jana. Bhagavaj-jana and hari-jana, the same thing. Hari means Bhagavān, and here it is stated, bhagavaj-jana, and hari-jana, the same thing. But nowadays hari-jana means if somebody comes and presents himself as hari-jana, immediately we understand he must be a chamar or bhangi.

*So this is the position. Hari*-jana means persons like Nārada, Vyāsa, Asita, like that, the personal servant of Kṛṣṇa. By rubber-stamp-"hari-jana..." In Bengali it is said, kana chela nama padma locana (?): "One son is blind, and the father has given the name 'lotus-eyed.' " So that you can do out of affection. A blind child you can call "lotus-eyed," that is your business. But lotus-eyed means something else. Very beautiful eyes, then you can say "lotus-eyed." So this is going on. I want some political aims, so I stamp the chamars and bhangis as hari-jana. That's all. That you can call for your political purpose. But hari-jana does not mean that. Here it is, a example of hari-jana, parama bhāgavatan. Parama bhāgavata means the highest stage of devotees. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, and then uttama-adhikārī. He is parama-bhāgavata. He has no enemy. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he worships the Deity, but he does not know how to do good to others, neither he knows who is devotee. In the kaniṣṭha-adhikara, in the lower stage of devotional service, one cannot distinguish. But he should be engaged fully in Deity worship so that gradually he will develop his mahā-bhāgavata stage. And madhyama-adhikārī means he knows how to make others hari-jana, or devotee.

*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpa upekṣā

yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ



*He not only worships the Deity wholeheartedly... That is prema. Īśvare prema. But beyond that, tad adhīneṣu*-he knows how to respect the devotees, tad adhīneṣu, īśvara adhīneṣu. That means other devotees. Then he becomes madhyama-adhikārī. If he simply takes care of the Deity worship and if he does not offer respectful behavior to another devotee, he is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. He is in the lower stage. So īśvare tad adhīneṣu. He must see that "Here is a devotee." He must have power to see that "Here is a devotee."



So how to deal with devotee? Maitrī: to make friendship with him. Īśvare prema. And to the devotees, friendship; *not with others, friendship. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised. When He was asked by a gṛhastha devotee how to behave like a Vaiṣṇava, what is the behavior of a Vaiṣṇava, He immediately answered that the standard Vaisnavism is asat-saṅga-tyāga,-ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra: [Cc. Madhya 22.87] "He must give up the company of asat, nondevotees." Asato mā sad gamaḥ. Don't associate with nondevotee. If you want to make progress, don't associate. Associate does not mean to talk with a nondevotee is association. No. That we have to do. As gentlemen, as devotee, we can. But not intimately. Associate means dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva, guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca. These are intimate relationship, dealing: giving something to your friend, accepting something from your friend, feeding your friend, accept food from him, and disclose your mind to your friend, and understand his mind. Ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. So with devotee we should deal in six ways, ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti. Īśvare prema tad-adhīneṣu maitrī. This is friendly behavior. And kṛpa bāliśeṣu. Those who are innocent, does not know what is God or what is our relationship with Him, but they are not atheist-they do not know*-to such persons, kṛpa, daya. Īṣvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu. And there is a class, dviṣat, sura-dviṣat, simply atheist. As soon as they hear the name of God, Kṛṣṇa, they become angry. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Innocent child, five years old, Prahlāda Mahārāja, because he learned from Nārada Muni even from the womb of his mother how to become a devotee and from the birth he was a devotee and his father did not like, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Not only he did not like, he was prepared to kill his child in so many ways. That is atheism. Atheists are so much averse, sura-dviṣat. They are envious. So to such person the madhyama-adhikārī cannot preach because it is useless waste of time. If one is innocent but not envious we can preach there. That will be, I mean to say, fruitful. If we go to atheist and you go on speaking, he will never accept it. So don't waste your time in that way. That is nāma-aparādha. But because we have not so much power that we can convert an atheist to become theist or devotee of God That requires special power.

*So mahā*-bhāgavata means he is above the madhyama-adhikārī. He does not see anyone nondevotee. He sees everyone devotee. He sees all living entities existing in Kṛṣṇa, and he sees Kṛṣṇa is living within the heart of everyone. That is mahā-bhāgavata. What is that verse? Sarva... Mayi paśyati. Yo mām... He is mahā-bhāgavata. He is mahā-bhāgavata. He is broad-visioned. Everything. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. In everything He sees Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's hand, Kṛṣṇa's energy. Actually that is the fact. What is this microphone? This is also Kṛṣṇa because what is this? This is made of this material gross matter. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva [Bg. 7.4]. Bhūmi... From earth the iron comes, the aluminium comes, the wood comes. So this is combination of bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ, Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore it is Kṛṣṇa. Śakti śaktimatayor abheda. There is no difference between śakti and śaktimat. Śaktimat is Kṛṣṇa, and śakti, the manifestation of His energy, of, I mean to say, gross energy Prakṛtir me bhinnā aṣṭadhā. Bhinnā... Just like I am speaking, and this is recorded in the tape recorder, but when replayed, you will find that I am speaking. But I am not there. Bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. This is bhinnā, originally coming from Kṛṣṇa, but it is an energy where you cannot find Kṛṣṇa directly. But it is Kṛṣṇa's energy.

*The mahā*-bhāgavata knows that, that although this material world is a world of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa... Material world means when you forget Kṛṣṇa. Here you will find cent percent people, they have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. They do not care to know Kṛṣṇa, neither they have got any relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is material world. Here the nature is how to forget Kṛṣṇa. There is a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. That is called māyā. Māyā means viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. Everything is in relationship with God, but he, the rascal atheist, he'll say, jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8], there is no īśvaram. This is materially This is material world, forgetfulness. Viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ.

So the devotee's business is how to enlighten him to come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, real smṛti. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, means it is an endeavor to bring the rascals and fools and atheists to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the most, I mean to say, important welfare activities in the human society. So that Bharata Mahārāja was therefore... He had the power. He had the power to control how to bring the citizens to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore he was selected to become the king, not a rascal by vote and come to the become president and you become happy. That is impossible.

Thank you very much. (end)



761116SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.29

-

Vṛndāvana, November 16, 1976



Pradyumna: "After accepting the feature of avadhūta, a great saintly person without material cares, Lord Ṛṣabhadeva passed through human society like a blind, deaf and dumb man, an idle stone, a ghost or a madman. Although people called Him such names, He remained silent and did not speak to anyone."



Prabhupāda:



*Jaḍāndha*-mūka-badhira-piśāca unmādaka...



What is that other word?



*Avadhūta*-veṣo abhibhāśyamāṇo 'pi janānāṁ gṛhīta-mauna-vratas tūṣṇīṁ babhūva.

[SB 5.5.29]



So Ṛṣabhadeva, after giving charge of the government to Bharata Mahārāja, He Paraṁ bhāgavata. That we have explained yesterday, that the king should be paraṁ bhāgavata, not a debauch. That was the system in Vedic age, the ideal king, ideal person. If one person is educated sufficiently he can Being the executive head of the state, he can take care of the whole population because his order is supreme. That was the duty of the king, to see that things are going on nicely in order. The order is that everyone should be educated to the final goal of understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is education. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. This is education. Veda means knowledge.



*So there may be different types of sources of knowledge, but the means are justified by the end. What is the end of life? The end of life is to understand Kṛṣṇa. If you don't like to say "Kṛṣṇa"*-God. That is end of life. But these rascals, they do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. The general population, they do not know because they are not educated in that way. At the present moment, Kali-yuga... [break] We are educating people atheism, no God, "God is dead." In Europe, America, when I went there, the education was "God is dead." Here also, so many rascals, they have appeared as God. They are also saying, "Now, Kṛṣṇa was God, but He is now dead. I am now God." Yes. They are saying publicly. And they are being accepted.

So this is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has defined these rascals as rascals, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you can blindly classify him in four groups: duṣkṛtina, means most sinful; *mūḍhāḥ*-rascals; *narādhamāḥ-lowest of the mankind. "No, he is M.A., Ph.D." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "What is the fault?" Because he does not accept Kṛṣṇa-finish. So we are also like other fools and rascals, but we accept this Kṛṣṇa's word as final, that's all. Kṛṣṇa says that these are Those who have not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are four classes, means most sinful, and rascal, lowest of the mankind, and although he has got university degrees, his knowledge is taken away by māyā. Āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This is āsuriṁ bhāvam. And there are two classes of men*-the āsura and the deva. So deva means who accepts the authority of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is deva. Devata. Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Even those who are devotees of other demigods, they are also āsuras, what to speak of atheist. Even Just like Rāvaṇa. He was a great devotee of Lord Śiva-everyone knows-but he was called a rākṣasa. Rākṣasa and āsura, the same thing. Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was a great devotee of Lord Brahmā. He is also called rākṣasa.

*So one may be very educated, very good scholar in Vedic knowledge, but if he does not accept Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa the same. Viṣṇu*-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva means the category of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Out of false hopes, they are trying to become successful. That is not possible. Durāśayā. Such kind of hope is useless hope. It will never be... Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇaḥ. Leaving aside Viṣṇu and simply they are trying to become very highly learned, mogha-jñāna vicetasaḥ. So they are mogha, means their hopes will never be successful. They may go on.

*So this unsuccessful life, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3], life after life, when one actually comes on the platform of knowledge-bahūṇāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]-that is the sign that here is a jñānavān. Because he has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he has accepted Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva-vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā suḍurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]-he is mahātmā. Mahātmā does not mean that to dress like me or having a big beard and No. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam. One who has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme-paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]*-he is mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya manaso [Bg. 9.13]. He is mahātmā, not mahātmā by stamping or by changing the dress. No. Mahātmā means who is surrendered to the... Mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo-murāreḥ. Murāri, Kṛṣṇa's name is mahat-padam. He is mahātmā.

*So in this way, here is... Ṛṣabhadeva is teaching us how we should select. Now it is the time for democracy. So Lord Ṛṣabhadeva is teaching us that how you shall select the president or the king, Bharata Mahārāja, the ideal king, parama-bhāgavatam. And vairāgya-lakṣaṇaṁ pāramahaṁsya-dharmam, and bhagavaj-jana-parāyaṇam. These are. So democracy Sometimes I say to my American students that "Your country is opulent in every respect." Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26], four kinds of opulences, everyone is trying for. Now everyone is trying for money, because if you get money, then, although you are born in the lowest family, chamar, bhangi, if you have got money, you'll be respectful, everything. Now there is no question of caste because everyone is lost. Kalau śūdra-sambhavāḥ. So you cannot find out who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is vaiśya, who is śūdra. Everyone is the same. Now they are trying for classless society. Classless society means śūdra. So how a śūdra can be equal to the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya? But if you earn money, then you are more than brāhmaṇa, you are more than a sannyāsī. This is Kali-yuga. So therefore people are after money only.

*So we are being educated in that way, foolish education. And we shall select. When we come to the election we select a person like me. That has been described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. This election, we are selecting another person. He is also like me. I am a paśu. How can I select a person who is not paśu? Therefore if you want good government, then*-this is democratic age-then you must be good. You must know who is good. Then you can elect: "Here is good man." Otherwise, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has said that these so-called leaders, they are big paśu. I am paśu, and he's a big paśu. What can I select? I cannot find out Bharata Mahārāja, parama-bhāgavatam, bhagavaj-jana-priya. Hm? Bhagavaj-jana-parāyaṇam. Nobody likes bhagavaj-jana. "These people are always speaking of God. It is brainwash." This is the modern "It is brainwash." In Europe and America they are now combining to oppose this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, that we are brainwashing him, controlling the mind by hypnotism. That is the charge against us. We are placed in the court also in many cases. So this is "What is this nonsense, bhagavaj-jana-parāyaṇam, Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa? This is simply a sophistry," they say. Even a big scholar say. When Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], a big scholar, he has remarked, "This is sophistry."

*So this is the age. So everyone is trying to be happy. That happiness is not possible. That peace is not possible unless you have got a leader or king like Bharata Mahārāja, after whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, this Bharata Mahārāja. So we have to find out such leader. Then everything will be adjusted. It is the... Now we are speaking of secular state. Secular state does not mean people will become godless. No. Secular state means that no religious preference. "Because you are Hindu, therefore we shall give you more preference than the Muhammadan"*-no. Secular state means that the state should see that everyone is strictly following his religious principle. That is secular state. If you are Hindu or varṇāśrami, then you must follow the principles of how one is a brāhmaṇa, how one is a kṣatriya. Hinduism, this is a foreign word. Real principle is varṇāśrama-dharma. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur arādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. This is the aim of life, how to worship Viṣṇu. That is explained, and that is the training of this varṇāśrama-dharma.

*Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya quoted this when Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from him what is sādhya*-sādhana. "What is the business of the human society and what is the aim of human society?" This was the question put forward by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He first of all quoted varṇāśrama. The human society begins when there is varṇāśrama-dharma. Otherwise it is animal society. There is no human society. That is beginning of human society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. My Guru Mahārāja also wanted to establish daiva-varṇāśrama. Yes. There must be the human society, not this, daiva-varṇāśrama, not this āsuric varṇāśrama. Āsuric varṇāśrama... Just like Rāvaṇa. He was also son of a brāhmaṇa, but he was rejected, that "You are not brāhmaṇa; *you are rākṣasa because you do not care for Bhagavān Rāmacandra." So this is the verdict of the śāstra. So therefore daiva*-varṇāśrama. Varnāśrama should be established on the principles of devata, to make people devata. Devata means viṣṇu bhaktaḥ bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Unless one is not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot be a devata. He cannot be a civilized man.

*It is said in the śāstra that ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. The brāhmaṇa, he knows the brahminical business, sat-karma, means paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa must be very learned scholar, pathana, and he shall make others also good scholar. The brāhmaṇa is the teacher. That is brāhmaṇa's business. Paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana. He must be a good worshiper of the Supreme Lord, and he must teach others how to become brāhmaṇa, how to worship. Yajana yājana. And dāna pratigraha. Brāhmaṇa, Vaiṣṇava Still the world is going on. At least in India the brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇavas, they are given charities without any hesitation. Because that mentality is still existing in India, so somebody is taking advantage of it. Unnecessarily they are changing dress and begging and making money. No. So dāna pratigraha. Therefore a brāhmaṇa, as soon as there is excess money, he would immediately spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Dāna pratigraha. He will charity. He'll make charity. He'll distribute prasādam. He'll not keep money for future. No. Dāna pratigraha. So even one is perfect brāhmaṇa like that, yajana yājana paṭhana pāṭhana dāna pratigraha, and mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ... So if he is actually learned scholar, he must be very expert in quoting, chanting the Vedic mantra, Vedic hymns. That is the sign that he has read something. He has studied Vedas. So mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. So avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt. One disqualification: if he is not a Vaiṣṇava, then he cannot become guru. Forgive him, immediately. Ṣaḍ vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ. Śvapaca means dog-eaters. If one is coming from the family of dog-eaters In India the dog-eaters are considered the lowest of the society, caṇḍāla. But if he is a Vaiṣṇava, then he can become guru. It doesn't matter. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu also supports this.

*yei bhaje sei baḍa, abhakta*-hīna, chāra

*kṛṣṇa*-bhajane nāhi jati-kulādi-vicāra

[Cc. Antya 4.67]



This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to begin.



*So here are the examples in the śāstras, that Bharata Mahārāja, elected or selected, nominated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Ṛṣabhadeva... And He retired, avadhūta*-veṣa. Avadhūta-veṣa means He is no more within the social community. Just like the word nirgranthā... Kurvanty ahaitukīṁ bhaktim ittham-bhūta-guṇo hariḥ. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained this word nirgranthā. Nirgranthā means one who has no granthi, no tight knot with this material world. And the another meaning, one who has no connection with granthā, nirgranthā. So there are two classes of men. One is foolish rascal, no education. He is called also nirgranthā, and another person who has no connection with this material world, he is also nirgranthā. So here the sign of Ṛṣabhadeva, He became just like a madman, a deaf and dumb, a rascal, a fool, a ghost. But He is not madman. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is... Apparently it may look like that, but He is Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has no connection, either you call Him deaf and dumb, fool, rascal, whatever you call. You can call. Tṛṇād api sunīcena. He has no connection with this body. This is avadhūta-veṣa. When one, no more he has got any connection with this material body, he is avadhūta-veṣa.

Thank you very much. (end)



761117SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.30

-

Vṛndāvana, November 17, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



*Tatra tatra pura*-grāmākara-kheṭa-vāṭa-kharvaṭa-śibira-vraja-ghoṣa-sārtha-giri-vanāśramādiṣu anupatham avanicarāpasadaiḥparibhūyamāno makṣikābhir iva vana-gajas tarjana-tāḍanāvamehana-ṣṭhīvana-grāva-śakṛd-rajaḥ-prakṣepa-pūti-vāta-duruktais tad avigaṇayann evāsat-saṁsthāna etasmin dehopalakṣaṇe sad-apadeśa ubhayānubhava-svarūpena sva-mahimāvasthānenāsamāropitāhaṁ-mamābhimānatvād avikhaṇḍita-manāḥ pṛthivīm eka-caraḥ paribabhrāma.

[SB 5.5.30]



"Translation: Ṛṣabhadeva began to tour through cities, villages, mines, countrysides, valleys, gardens, military camps, cow pens, the homes of cowherd men, transient hotels, hills, forests and hermitages. Wherever He traveled, all bad elements surrounded Him, just as flies surround the body of an elephant coming from a forest. He was always being threatened, beaten, urinated upon and spat upon. Sometimes people threw stones, stool and dust at Him, and sometimes people passed foul air before Him. Thus people called Him many bad names and gave Him a great deal of trouble, but He did not care about this, for He understood that the body is simply meant for such an end. He was situated on the spiritual platform, and, being in His spiritual glory, He did not care for all these material insults. In other words, He completely understood that matter and spirit are separate, and He had no bodily conception. Thus, without being angry at anyone, He walked through the whole world alone."



*Prabhupāda: So tatra tatra pura-grāmākara-kheṭa-vāṭa-kharvaṭa and so on, so on. This is Sanskrit language. By combining words with the process of sandhi and samasa, one word can be as long as three miles. So for ordinary person it is very difficult to combine together. So it is for the learned scholars. But we must understand the purport. Ṛṣabhadeva is parivrājakācārya. This is called parivrājakācārya. We have heard this name, parivrājakācārya. Sannyāsī's third stage is parivrājakācārya, and the fourth stage is paramahaṁsa. Kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājakācārya, and then paramahaṁsa. So avadhūta. We have already understood, avadhūta: no conception, no bodily conception, completely. There is a song, deha-smṛti nāhi yāra, saṁsāra kāhāṅ tāra. If one is completely free from the bodily conception of life, as it is shown practically by Ṛṣabhadeva-people are spiting (spitting on him), calling him by ill names, and sometimes passing urine*-he doesn't care. This is the example. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikhāya. By imitation, it is not possible. We'll learn more and more about His body, how it was completely spiritual. Na jāyate na mriyate va. In other place the spiritual body is nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. The... No weapon can cut it, no fire can burn it. These descriptions are there.



*So what is that thing? It is definition by negation. We cannot understand in our present state what is that spirit soul. Although we can perceive that there is something*-in the absence of that something, this body is nothing but a lump of matter. That we get experience every day. But we cannot see what is that. Therefore atheist class or the persons with poor fund of knowledge, they deny the existence. They cannot see. But they cannot answer that why the body is no more working, what is that thing which is absent? They have tried to explain in so many ways how that something... But they could not practically explain. We have to understand it by the śruti process, Vedic knowledge. That is real understanding. And understanding from the right person, Kṛṣṇa or His representative. And it has to be understood simply by hearing. There is no other process. You cannot see; *it is so small particle. Keśāgra-śata*-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. So in these material eyes we cannot see even the spiritual spark within the body. How you can see the Supreme Spirit? It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. These blunt senses cannot see. But we can perceive. This much concession is there, and one can become completely free from bodily conception of life. That is...

*Here is the example by Ṛṣabhadeva. There are many. In the yogic process, aṇimā*-siddhi... Yogis, those who have attained some perfection in the yoga process, you can put him into locked room but he'll come out. That is called aṇimā-siddhi. Very small, the spirit soul, he'll come out. Aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, siddhi, there are eight kinds of... He can do that. There was one sannyāsī, Trailinga Swami in Benares. He was sitting on the road naked. The police objected. So several times he was taken and put into the police custody, but he came out. Again he was sitting. This is yoga-siddhi. Then he was allowed-"Hopeless." They cannot be locked up. That is yoga-siddhi, not merely showing some gymnastic process. No. One must be... That yoga-siddhi, it is not possible in this age because people are not expert to practice this yoga system. Therefore Arjuna denied, "No, no, no. Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me to practice this yoga system. It is impossible for me." So five thousand years ago he said, "Impossible," but we are daring to make it possible. That is not very good. Better, as Kṛṣṇa says... To encourage Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa said that "Don't be discouraged because you cannot practice this yoga system. Here is the best process." What is that? Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā: [Bg. 6.47] "If you simply think of Me, then you are the best yogi."

*So everything will be perfectly executed*-yoga, jñāna, karma, and many other processes-if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the real purpose. If you come to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then everything is perfect. Even if you cannot execute yoga, jñāna, karma perfectly, still you are perfect. Still you are perfect. But the central point is that we must be absorbed always in thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the core of our heart. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. Simply you should remain Kṛṣṇa conscious twenty-four hours, even in sleeping. That is the perfect stage. But we have to practice. It is not simply words. But it can be practiced; *it is not impossible. The practice Kṛṣṇa is recommending, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Always think of Me." Our, this temple worship... Mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. And "Always think of Me." This class, this kīrtana, this prasāda distribution and offering obeisances, worshiping, so many-śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]-take any one of them or all of them. Be perfect in that particular process. Try to become, at least. Kṛṣṇa will help you. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. If you try your best, Kṛṣṇa will give you strength. Kṛṣṇa is always ready to help you, provided you want to take his help. He is ready. He has come to help you. Otherwise what is the use of Kṛṣṇa's coming here and canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]? That is for our interest. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa or not surrender, it doesn't matter to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not depend on your service. He is completely perfect. He can create millions of servants like you in a moment. So why does He require your service? Why He should canvass for your service? His service is not suffering for want of you. But it is your interest to surrender to Him. It is your interest. This Kṛṣṇa wants to see, that you surrender to Him and become perfect and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the same mission: to canvass.

dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya

(sic) kāku-śatam kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi

he sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād

*caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam



*This is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Why Prabodhananda Sarasvatī is requesting, caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "You just become inclined to serve the lotus feet of Caitanya"? Because He's Kṛṣṇa personally, and He has come to teach us how to approach Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Kṛṣṇaya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-namne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, he understood. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, he understood.



*vairāgya vidyā*-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*If we understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You become guru." How? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Don't change, don't alter. You simply try to preach what Kṛṣṇa has said. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. If you follow this instruction... Don't make any addition and alteration of your so-called learned scholarship That will not help you. You must present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. There is everything, very easily done, provided we follow paramparā system.



So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be pushed on very humbly.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*Kīrtanīya. This preaching means kīrtana, not that simply with mṛdaṅga we can have musical kīrtana. No. Preaching is also kīrtana. Abhavad vaiyāsaki*-kīrtane. Vaiyāsaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he simply described Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and became perfect. Abhavad vaiyāsaki-kīrtane. Śrī-viṣṇu-śravaṇe parīkṣit. Parīkṣit Mahārāja simply listened; *he became perfect. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī simply described. That is also kīrtana. So this is also kīrtana. As Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī teaching us, he sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "You are sādhu, best person, noble, but this is my request." This is humbleness. If you say, "Oh, you are a karmī, you are a mūḍha..." Actually he's a mūḍha, but don't... In the beginning, if you say, then there will be no opportunity to speak. He is a mūḍha, that there is no... Working like hogs and dogs day and night for sense gratification, certainly he is mūḍha, karmī. Similarly, jñānī, they are simply speculating. That logic, kākā-taliya nyāya: "Whether the crow first of all sat down on the palm fruit; then the palm fruit fell down? Or the palm fruit fell down; *therefore the crow could not sit on the palm fruit?" Logic. One paṇḍita said, "No, no. First of all, the palm fruit fell down, and the crow wanted to sit down on it, so he could not." Now another paṇḍita says, "No, no. The palm fruit was there, and because the crow sat down on it, it fell down." Now this is logic. They are wasting time speculating. Kākā*-taliya nyāya. Kupa-manduka-nyāya. There are.



*So that will also not help. They are presenting themself as big scholar. No. Māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā. Simply wasting time. Simply wasting time. They are so-called jñānī, but māyayāpahṛta-jñānā-there is no knowledge, Vedānta. Big, big Vedānti. Kṛṣṇa said, the supreme authority, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ vedānta-kṛt vedānta-vid ca aham [Bg. 15.15]. Now they do not care for Kṛṣṇa, and they are Vedānti. What kind of Vedānti? Nonsense. So this will not help. We have to preach... But if we say directly that "You are all mūḍhas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, and duṣkṛtina," they will be angry. Because satyaṁ bruyad na bruyat satyam apriyam. You have to speak the truth very cautiously. Otherwise they will be angry. Murkhayopadeṣo hi prokapāya na śāntaye: "If you give good instruction to a rascal, he'll be angry." Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī is teaching us how we should present our case. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakam: "Sir, I have come to you, taking this grass in my teeth." This is a symbolic representation of becoming very humble in India. They take a grass. Dante nidhāya padayor nipatya: "And I am falling down on your feet." Kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā: "And I am flattering you. You are very grand. You are very nice. You are very learned. You are so on, so on." If you flatter, people become puffed-up. So, dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śatam kṛtvā cāham: "I have one submission." "What is that?" No... He sādhavaḥ: "You are a great learned sādhu. My one request is that whatever you have learned, please forget. Whatever nonsense you have learned, please forget. This is my submission." "I have learned so many things, and I have to forget? Then what I have to do?" He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "You just submit yourself to Caitanya-candra. Then everything will be perfect."

*So our preaching is like that. Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥv. This process is adopted not by rascals. Su-medhasaḥ, those who have got good brain, they will take it. So very simple thing, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu is approved by the ācāryas, by big, big scholars. So you have no fear of falling down. So take Caitanya Mahāprabhu's first mercy, and then preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll be successful. It is not possible nowadays to imitate Ṛṣabhadeva. Just like the Jains, they imitate that. What their imitation...? Not a single Jain up till now has become perfectly in the renounced order of life. So they say so. It was imitated by one king in the South India, and he is the originator, propounder of the Jainism. They say. But you cannot imitate Ṛṣabhadeva. That is not possible in this age. Better try to follow the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa. Your life will be perfect.

Thank you very much. (end)



761118SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.31

-

Vṛndāvana, November 18, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



*ati*-sukumāra-kara-caraṇoraḥ-sthala-vipula-bāhv-aṁsa-gala-vadanādy-avayava-vinyāsaḥ prakṛti-sundara-svabhāva-hāsa-sumukho nava-nalina-dalāyamāna-śiśira-tārāruṇāyata-nayana-ruciraḥ sadṛśa-subhaga-kapola-karṇa-kaṇṭha-nāso vigūḍha-smita-vadana-mahotsavena pura-vanitānāṁ manasi kusuma-śarāsanam upadadhānaḥ parāg-avalambamāna-kuṭila-jaṭila-kapiśa-keśa-bhūri-bhāro 'vadhūta-malina-nija-śarīreṇa graha-gṛhīta ivādrśyata

[SB 5.5.31]



"Translation: Lord Ṛṣabhadeva's hands, feet and chest were very long. His shoulders, face and limbs were all very delicate and symmetrically proportioned. His mouth was beautifully decorated with His natural smile, and He appeared all the more lovely with His eddish eyes spread wide like the petals of a newly grown lotus flower covered with dew in the early morning. The irises of His eyes were so pleasing that they removed all the troubles of everyone who saw Him. His forehead, ears, neck, nose and all His other features were very beautiful. His gentle smile always made His face beautiful, so much so that He even attracted the hearts of married women. It was as though they had been pierced by the arrows of Cupid. About His head was an abundance of curly, matted brown hair. His hair was disheveled because His body was dirty and not taken care of. He appeared as if He were haunted by a ghost."



*Prabhupāda: So God's body is not material. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, prākṛta kariyā māne viṣṇu*-kalevara aparādha nāhi ara inhāra para. Anyone considering the body of Viṣṇu or Viṣṇu-tattva, Kṛṣṇa, Ṛṣabhadeva... They are not material body. A further description will be there-even the stool and urine also transcendental.



*So we cannot conceive in our present stage what is the difference between prākṛta and aprākṛta. The description in the śāstras we have to accept. Just like practically Kṛṣṇa, when He was in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, He was great*-grandfather. His grandchildren also had sons. It is said that the whole family of Kṛṣṇa consisted of about one crore of living entities, Yadu-vaṁśa, very big family. So grandchildren, their children, their children, like that... But still, Kṛṣṇa was looking just like a boy of sixteen to twenty years. That is aprākṛta. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. This is the description. He is the oldest person because... Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Even Brahma, Lord Śiva, they also are born of Him. Prapitāmahā. Brahmā is called Pitā-mahā, and Kṛṣṇa is described, Prapitāmahā [Bg. 11.39]. So He is the father of Brahma; *still, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam [Bs. 5.33]*-the oldest. Because Brahmā is the first living being within this material world... First Brahmā was created in the lotus flower from Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, so Brahmā is the first creature, living creature, but he also is born of Viṣṇu. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Then Brahma, Lord Śiva was born, Rudra. In this way, Viṣṇu or Viṣṇu-tattva, that is original. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrti..., ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. Still, he is nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Nava-yauvanam means it begins from the sixteenth year. He looked like that, a boy of sixteen to twenty years old, and... This is only description of His transcendental body, sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1].

*This is the difference between material body and spiritual body. It doesn't matter. The Māyāvādīs, they cannot think of, that material body can be so beautiful, neither they can think of, that the Supreme to possess a body... But He possesses body. The description of the body is there. But it is not like our body. Therefore nirākāra means His body, ākāra, or form, is not like ours. That is to be understood. He is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Vigraha means body. He has got body, but not a body like ours. That is misunderstanding. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. And He expands His body into millions of other bodies. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was present upon this earth, He married sixteen thousand wives, and He expanded Himself also into sixteen thousand forms. And each and every form is differently engaged. Nārada was astonished when he heard that Kṛṣṇa has married sixteen thousand wives, and with each and every wife He is different engaged. That he saw. These descriptions are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Somewhere He's engaged some way; *in another place, in the..., Arjuna, Nārada saw that although He has expanded, but He is differently engaged. Another example is there. When Lord Brahmā stole away, moved all the cows, calves, cowherd boys, He immediately expanded Himself into so many cowherd boys, cows, calves. He's complete always. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. That is God. That is Kṛṣṇa, not that like ourself. He can expand Himself*-ananta-rūpam. Still, He is there; the body is not finished. We cannot conceive. Suppose my body is cut into pieces and thrown. Then where is my body? This is material conception. But spiritually, if my body is cut into thousands of pieces, still I'll remain.

*So we cannot understand what is a spiritual body at the present moment. We have to hear from the right source, Vedic knowledge. That is Vedic knowledge. Everything described about God, Kṛṣṇa, at the present moment is inconceivable. We cannot imagine. Long, long ago I was talking with one Ārya*-samajī friend. So he did not believe that a lotus stem can grow on the navel of Viṣṇu and there is Brahmā born. Everyone says like that, "mythology." It is not mythology; it is fact. So I asked him that "Here we see one coconut tree, and about sixty feet above, there is coconut and there is water, there is pulp, and it is being carried from the ground. Where is the pipe? Where is the pump? How the water is there within the coconut? Can you explain?" So he could not explain. And I said that "Even in material things which is front of you, you cannot explain. How you will explain the spiritual position? How the lotus grown from the navel of...?" Therefore it should be accepted as inconceivable. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Don't try to argue; it is foolishness. It is inconceivable.

*So, so many things, these rascals they do not believe, atheists. When things are described about God which is not conceivable by us, they say, "It is mythology, it is imagination." But that is not the fact. The fact is that Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, they have got spiritual expansion. Sambhavāmy ātma*-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. Ātma-māyā. Kṛṣṇa said, "I appear in My spiritual potency." We... Our body is not ātma-māyayā. It is given by māyā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*This is the fact. We have got this yantra, machine. This body is a machine. That's a fact. But this machine, we are accepting as self-"I am this machine." This whole world is accepting-"I am this body." "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am black," "I am white." No. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said in the beginning that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. This change of body is different. That is on the body. At different times we are accepting different body. So we are not this body. But that is not possible for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's body*-the same. These foolish persons, they do not know. Therefore avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. These mūḍhas, these rascals, they think that Kṛṣṇa has got a different body. No. Kṛṣṇa hasn't got different body. We are given this body by māyā. Māyayā. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. We are sometimes getting a human form of body, sometimes a tree's body, sometimes a demigod's body, sometimes an insect's body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor dehopapatti [SB 3.31.1]. By karma we are forced to accept a certain type of body. You cannot say, "No, I don't want." That is not possible. "You have behaved like a dog. You got this human form of life for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra; *instead of doing that, you have cheated. You have misused your opportunity like a dog and hog. You must accept." This is nature's law. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. We, by practice, we may be, appearance like a human body, but my mentality is just like a dog. I don't discriminate, yoni*-vicara (?). I don't discriminate about eating. I eat everything, even up to stool like... That is going on.



*So this is misuse of the human form of body, and as soon as we misuse, we are given by nature's law an opportunity. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. Suffering, suffering, suffering, 8,400,000 forms of body, and we get... Aśītiṁś caturamś caiva jīva-jatiṣu. That is stated in the śāstra. This is an opportunity to understand Kṛṣṇa. This is human form of body. And if we don't accept Kṛṣṇa or don't try to understand Kṛṣṇa We must try. This is our business. Then we are misusing. Then māyā is there. Māyā is there means the laws are so automatic, māyā's law, that as soon as you do something, immediately the next stage is ready. The māyā hasn't got to do anything. Just like if you infect some disease, the next stage-then you must suffer from that disease. It is automatic, not that māyā has to come, and he has to convince you, "Sir, you have infected smallpox. Now you suffer from this smallpox." No, automatically it takes. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everything is going on systematically. You cannot change. That is called destiny. Destiny means that so long we are under the laws of nature, that is to happen. You cannot change it. That is not possible. Only... Such law can be changed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. You cannot. That is not possible. Nobody can do it. If you have done something wrong, sinful, you must suffer. There is no escape. But He can do that. Just like if you are condemned by the law court to be hanged, nobody can change it. Even the judge who has given you the punishment, even if you appeal to him, "Sir, excuse me," no, he cannot excuse you by law. But if you file petition to the president or the king-that is called king's mercy*-he can change. Similarly, whatever we are doing, we must enjoy or suffer. There is no question of enjoyment. When there is birth, death, old age and disease, where is enjoyment? There is no enjoyment. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This is a world of suffering. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. You cannot There is no question of enjoyment. But because we are in māyā, suffering we are accepting as enjoyment. Suffering is accepted as enjoyment. This is called māyā.

*So forgetfulness. That is forgetfulness. We are suffering. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said-we have already studied that-na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśa-da āsa dehaḥ. The mode of life which we are leading, it is not good. It is foolishness that we simply wasting our life like the animals-āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca*-and for maithuna and sense gratification we are doing everything like a madman. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya apṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. Only for sense gratification we are acting like madmen. So Ṛṣabhadeva said... We have already... Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam: "This is not good behavior." The same thing, repeated by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura:

hari hari! viphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,

jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu



*"My Lord, I have wasted my human form of life for nothing, for no purpose." Why? "Now, I got it to understand Kṛṣṇa, but I did not do that." Manuṣya janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā jāniyā śuniyā. This kind of activities have been described as drinking poison knowingly. So we should not do that. We must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then our life is successful.



*So by trying to understand the śāstra, especially śrīmad*-bhāgavatam, amalaṁ purāṇam, we get ideas of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] we can understand Kṛṣṇa through this process of devotional service. Otherwise it is not possible. So Vyāsadeva has given us this book.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

*bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasyājānato vidvāṁś

*cakre sātvata*-saṁhitām

[SB 1.7.6]



*So you read this satvata*-saṁhitā very carefully, then anartha, this unnecessary changing of body, will be stopped.



Thank you very much. (end)



761119SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.32

-

Vṛndāvana, November 19, 1976



Pradyumna: "When Lord Ṛṣabhadeva saw that the general populace was very antagonistic to His execution of mystic yoga, He accepted the behavior of a python in order to counteract their opposition. Thus He stayed in one place and lay down. While lying down, He ate and drank, and He passed stool and urine and rolled in it. Indeed, He smeared His whole body with His own stool and urine so that opposing elements might not come and disturb Him."



*Prabhupāda: Yarhi vāva sa bhagavān lokam imaṁ yogasyāddhā. [SB 5.5.32] So this is another process of yoga*-siddhi, ājagara-vṛtti, ājagara, python, lying down in one place, eating and passing urine, stool, everything. Ājagara-vṛtti. Ājagara, the python, it lies down in one place, big, big python, sometimes covered by the earth, but still, he gets his food. Big, big animals enter into the home of the python. And the python can eat even a full horse, what to speak of other animals. But still, Kṛṣṇa supplies him food. He hasn't got to go anywhere. So sometimes saintly persons, they sit down in one place. If Kṛṣṇa sends him food he will eat; *otherwise he will starve. In our ācārya*-sampradāya, Mādhavendra Purī, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, they were doing that. In Vṛndāvana Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, he was blind. He was sitting in one place, and Kṛṣṇa used to come and supply him milk.



*So there is no anxiety for maintenance of the body. There is no anxiety. Śāstra therefore says that "Don't spoil your energy for the matter of maintenance of the body. That is already settled up." Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is the Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The Supreme Lord is nitya as we are nitya. Nitya means there is no birth and death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is our constitutional position. And what is the difference between the two nityas? One is plural number and the other is singular number. The singular number nitya, or Kṛṣṇa, He supplies food to everyone. Oh, whatever we require, that is already settled up. Therefore we should not spend our energy for maintenance of the body. That is not required. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad brahmatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. Our human energy should be utilized only for that purpose which was not fulfilled in other lives, in the 8,400,000 different species of life, and you are changing, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], by nature's law, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]. According to guṇa and karma, we are changing our body in 8,400,000's of species and forms. That is By nature's law it is going on, and the nature's law, according to the body, one has to eat, sleep, and sense gratification and protection. At night we see so many dogs. The whole day they could not get food. At night they are crying. And there are other bodies; they are eating nicely. Even the small birds, they have got food. But this dog, they cannot get food. This is God's arrangement. They are condemned life. Otherwise others are getting food; why this body is not getting food? The hogs, they are eating stool.

*So varieties of life and varieties of position, you cannot change them. That is not possible. So the theory is humanitarianism, daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva... Seva. It is not seva. A poor man, you can have mercy, dayā. That is allowed. Just like we distribute prasādam. That is bāliśeṣu Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca, prema-maitrī-kṛpa upekṣā. Kṛpā. Those who are suffering-innocent, they do not know how to get release from the suffering*-they are called bāliśa. Just like a child. A child is suffering, he does not know how to get relief; so one should take care. They should be given shelter, they should be given cloth, food. It is the duty of the parents. That is natural. So for the bāliśa, innocent, it is our duty to show them mercy, give them food, give them shelter, give them instruction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that he may understand why he is here in this material world, why he is suffering. Ke āmi kene amaya jape tāpa traya. Everyone is suffering threefold miserable condition of life, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for showing mercy to the innocent who are suffering in this material world. That is wanted. It is not daridra*-nārāyaṇa seva, that "I am very rich man. I am rich Nārāyaṇa, and therefore I can serve the daridra-nārāyaṇa." There is no question of serving. That is not. No. The fact is everyone is suffering. There is nobody... Because asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Anyone within this material..., he is suffering, full of anxieties. Even the birds and beasts, you'll find, they are full of anxiety. Why? Asad-grahāt. Because he accepted this material body, which is asat, which is temporary. Asato mā sad gamaḥ. Therefore Vedic injunction is, "Don't stay in this material existence. Come to the spiritual existence, sat." Oṁ tat sat. This is the civilization, not to keep the people in ignorance and flatter them that "You are making very good advance." There is no advance unless one is interested in spiritual life. There is no... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. In this way we are wandering within this universe in different forms of life, in different planets, in different social positions, in so many varieties.

*So this is not our life. Our life is to regain our spiritual consciousness, revive our spiritual existence. And for this purpose we must endeavor. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Kovidaḥ means one who is intelligent. Otherwise, those who are not intelligent, they think that "I have got this life. I shall enjoy sense gratification," and "There is no life after death." Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], but these rascals will say, "No, there is no life." So therefore Kṛṣṇa has said, "Mūḍhas, rascals, they do not accept what I am speaking in this Bhagavad-gītā." Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ [Bg. 7.15]. They got the chance of understanding Kṛṣṇa, but they do not know. And the so-called rascal leaders, they are also misleading them, that "There was no Battle of Kurukṣetra. There was no instruction like that. It is all mythology, and we can utilize it for our political purposes but it has no value. I can interpret in my own way; you can interpret in your own way. Actually, this instruction has no value." Yata mata tata patha. "You can interpret in your own way; I can interpret..." In this way things are going on. This is the position.

Therefore our movement is being checked in the Western countries that this is a brainwash movement. Brainwash movement, that we are injecting some ideas by psychology, mental control, and our people they are taking to it, and it is spreading like epidemic. How to check it? Therefore they are now taking action how to stop this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in Europe and America. They are trying. Of course, we are not afraid of this attempt. They will never be successful, rest assured, because we are pushing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed from the very beginning of His life. That is the nature of this material world, "How to kill God," "God is dead." This is their attempt. So from the life of Kṛṣṇa we can understand that so many attempts were made by the demons and the rākṣasas to kill Kṛṣṇa, but actually Kṛṣṇa killed them all. So if you are sincere, if you follow the principles and push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, nobody can kill you. You'll go forward, rest assured. We are not going to be killed. That they are perceiving, that this movement is spreading like epidemic, and the young men of Europe and America, they're taking seriously. Professor Stillson Judah already has given his conclusion that "This movement is not going to stop. It will go on." That's a fact. Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed, neither His movement cannot be killed. Rather, those who are attempting to kill, they will be killed. But we must be very sincere, serious, follow the regulative principle and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra as you have been taught. Follow this principle boldly, and there is no fear.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva is Kṛṣṇa. So He became disturbed while walking on the street. He is not disturbed, but it is instruction that "If you are disturbed, you feel disturbed in this way, so you adopt this way. You sit down." Similarly, if they are disturbing too much, so we can sit down in one place and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. And Kṛṣṇa will send you all necessities. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga*-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. He promises. Kṛṣṇa cannot say anything lie. He is perfect. So if there is actually impediments to push on this movement-people disturb too much-never mind. You sit down in one place and still go on preaching. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. People will come still in India. Why India? In your country also, if saintly person goes, they come. That is the practice in everywhere. So you can sit down and still preach. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa. Ei deśa means where you are sitting, where you are living, any place. And sit down. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. And But try to deliver these innocent persons who are suffering.

Everyone is suffering. That should be the motto. Do not sit idly, eat and sleep. No. Either loitering, wandering... I know, our men in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are bold enough. They have sometimes been, I mean to say, beaten in the airport. But still, they are so straightforward, suffering from the police, from the public. And Ṛṣabhadeva was sometimes bitten on his body, urine, pass urine on his body, so much. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Ṛṣabhadeva. So He is teaching us that for the ultimate benefit of life you prepare yourself to suffer all kinds of tribulations. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this instruction:

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā...



You should not give up your preaching work. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. If there are tribulations, as Ṛṣabhadeva He is Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vaikuṇṭha, and He has no suffering.



*Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was beaten in twenty*-one bazaars regular with cane because he was Muhammadan, and in those days the Muhammadan kingdom was going on, Pathan ruling. So the Kazi, he saw that one Muhammadan, he has become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So he called him so, that "With great fortune you became a Muhammadan, and now you are taking to Hinduism? You are so unfortunate?" So he could understand that "Here is a rascal. What I shall talk with him and argue with him?" He simply said, "Sir, it is... What is the fault there? Just like so many Hindus, they sometimes become Muhammadan, and suppose if I have become a Hindu, what is the wrong there?" So the Kazi took it very seriously: "Oh, you are answering? All right. Order him that you beat this man in twenty-one..., cane, caning." So Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in public market. The idea was that beating, he would die. But he did not die. Then the, I mean to say, men who were given in charge to beat him, they became afraid, that "If this man is not dead, then the Kazi will take us very seriously that we have not beaten him seriously." So they began to flatter him, "Sir, unless you die, we'll be dead. Our life is in great danger." So Haridāsa Ṭhākura made a show of death, and he was brought before the Kazi that "Here, the body is dead."

So sometimes this kind of tribulation are there. Jesus Christ, what was his fault? He was preaching about God, or Kṛṣṇa. That was his fault and he was crucified. So this is the world. This is the world. As soon as you become... This is māyā's arrangement. Māyā, as soon as she sees that "This man is going out of my hand," she'll put so many tribulations, and we have to tolerate them.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



But you cannot stop kīrtana. That is not possible.



So you should learn from the... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], learn from the mahājana. Mahājana means the devotees. Mahājana. Mahājana is also addressed in India to the baniers, means the mercantile class, mahājana. The brāhmaṇa is addressed as paṇḍita, and the kṣatriya is addressed as ṭhākura, and the vaiśyas are addressed as mahājana, and the śūdras are addressed as chaudhuri. This is Indian etiquette. So we are not talking of this banier mahājana. Mahājanas are described in the śāstra, twelve mahājana:

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



*So they are twelve mahājanas, and we have to follow these mahājanas. The Ṛṣabhadeva is also mahājana, and the greatest mahājana is Kṛṣṇa. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Jana, jana means life, and mahājana, the supreme person. So mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Don't argue unnecessarily. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. You cannot come to conclusion by this method or that method. Just try to follow. Sādhu*-mārga-anugamanam, ādau gurv-āśrayam sad-dharma-pṛcchā, sādhu-mārganugamanam. We have to follow the footprints of great saintly persons, devotees, mahājana. Here is Ṛṣabhadeva. But in the Kali-yuga it is not possible to imitate ājagara-vṛtti. It is not possible because we are already so weak. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. This is our position. We are very unfortunate. Every one of us, we are very bad, mandāḥ, bad habits. So it is not possible to imitate Ṛṣabhadeva or Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Don't imitate but try to follow. Anusaraṇa. Anukaraṇa is not good. Anukaraṇa means false imitation. That is called anukaraṇa. And anusaraṇa means to follow. Try to follow as far as possible.



*So we have got good opportunity to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is intelligence. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. There is no need of unnecessarily accepting tribulation which is impossible in this age, when we are so much disturbed. We are already dead, just like animals. Therefore it is a special concession:

*kaler doṣa*-nidhe rājann

hy asti eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

*mukta*-saṅgaḥ param...

[SB 12.3.51]



*Simply try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra very sincerely, without any offense. Then... It is not possible to imitate or even follow Ṛṣabhadeva's process of self*-realization. In the Kali-yuga it is not possible. But as it is recommended in the śāstra, as Ṛṣabhadeva in his another incarnation, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is teaching, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you will get perfection.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





761120SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.33

-

Vṛndāvana, November 20, 1976



Pradyumna: "Because Lord Ṛṣabhadeva remained in that condition, the public did not disturb Him, but no bad aroma emanated from His stool and urine. Quite the contrary, His stool and urine were so aromatic that they filled eighty miles of the countryside with a pleasant fragrance."



Prabhupāda:



*tasya ha yaḥ purīṣa*-surabhi-saugandhya-vāyus taṁ deśaṁ dāṣa-yojanaṁ samantāt surabhiṁ cakāra

[SB 5.5.33]



*So here is incarnation of God, Ṛṣabhadeva. Now there are so many rascal incarnation. Is it possible to pass stool and make it surabhi? Is it possible? So you can ask these rascals incarnation that "Pass your stool here. Let us see first of all. Then we shall accept you." Practical. "We are fools and rascals. We want practical test." So śāstra*-cakṣuṣaḥ. This is the injunction, śāstra. Here is śāstra, that the incarnation of God, even He passes stool, it is fragrant. He can do it. That is God. That practically you can see, that the cow dung... Cow dung, you can make a stack of cow dung here. It will never disturb you. You'll, rather, feel pleasure, passing through that portion of field where cow dung is stacked. You'll never feel any disturbance because it is pure. Cow dung... We have discussed this point many times. Where it is impure, that it makes pure. In Indian villages, still they use cow dung for smearing over the floor, and it becomes very nice, fresh, and purified. That is injunction of the śāstra, that cow dung is pure. So if by the will of Kṛṣṇa, by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, even an animal's stool can become so purified, what to speak of Kṛṣṇa's stool?



*But paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know it, what is transcendental body, aprakṛta, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and what is the difference between this body and that body. Muḍḥa, they do not know. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Therefore they consider that "The Kṛṣṇa's body and my body is the same. If He has become God, so why shall not I become God?" But that is not possible. His body is transcendental; *your body is not transcendental. Your body is this rotten earth, water, fire, pañnca*-bhautika. You cannot compare with that. In this way, as it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, His body is completely different from our body. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti, we sing every day in the morning. His body is so made that He can do everything and anything by any part of the body. There are many instances. Just like generally we find a person is born from the yoni. Therefore we call sarva-yoni. But Mahā-Viṣṇu or Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, He did not take any help from his wife to give birth to a son, Lord Brahmā. He generated from His navel. This is called aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. We have to see that. Where is that instance ordinarily that a child is born from the navel? But He can do that. A child is born from female. That is from the yoni. But here is, a living creature is born from the navel, and that is also puruṣa. So these things are there. And Kṛṣṇa, He exhibited, manifested, His virāṭa-rūpa. So He can do everything and anything because His body is not this body. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. That is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ.

*You cannot compare Kṛṣṇa's body with our body. If you do that, then you must be a mūḍha, rascal. Don't do that. Kṛṣṇa is always transcendental, divyam. Janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. This divya you should understand. Yo jānāti tattvataḥ. He is liberated person. Anyone who knows what is Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes liberated. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. It is not so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth. It requires time. He... Not all of a sudden you can understand. But if you stick to devotional service, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234], then He reveals. When you engage your tongue... It is also wonderful. To understand Kṛṣṇa, you require your tongue. Generally we understand by seeing or by hearing. Hearing is there, but here it is recommended tongue, especially. Why tongue is used? Because if you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa by your tongue and taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam, you will understand Kṛṣṇa. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. If you make it a promise that "I shall not talk anything except Kṛṣṇa's message," and if you promise that "I shall not take anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa," these two things, this prasādam and chanting, will make you perfect to understand Kṛṣṇa. In another place Kṛṣṇa says, mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. This is yoga, bhakti-yoga. How easy it is. There are so many yogas, but if you practice bhakti-yoga you become first-class yogi.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*So it is very easy, bhakti*-yoga. It is not at all difficult. You haven't got to strain your body as in other haṭha-yoga practice you have to very undergo hardship, to sit in a particular posture, in a particular place. These things are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Not that you become yogi in a fashionable city as you'll find nowadays, yoga-āśrama signboard in a fashionable house, and you show some gymnastic, you become a yogi and get some money. Not that. This is bhakti-yoga, begins from jihva. Exercise your jihva, tongue; then you become a perfect yogi.



*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayam samagram...



*Samagram. Kṛṣṇa you understand fully, not partially. Not partially means not simply understanding impersonal Brahman. That is partial understanding. And then localized Paramātmā, that is also partial understanding. But when you understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, that is full understanding. So you simply concentrate your mind unto the person of Kṛṣṇa, mayy āsakta*-manāḥ. Here is Kṛṣṇa. We can see Kṛṣṇa. So if we simply concentrate our mind, meditation Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. This was the practice done by Ambarīṣa Mahārāja.



*So Durvāsā Muni, he was a great yogi, and he became very much envious that "Here is a person who is a gṛhastha and a kṣatriya, he is not even a brāhmaṇa, and he does not practice anything. He is always engaged in his royal activities, and this man is so famous as a great person, great devotee. So I'll chastise him. I'll show." So he wanted to pick up some quarrel with Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, and on dvādaśī day he approached there with sixty thousand disciples and he said, "Mahārāja, arrange for our prasādam. We..." "Yes, welcome." But his purpose was different. So he went to take bath in the Ganges and Yamunā, and then he came late. In the meantime he had to observe dvādaśī*-pāraṇa. With the advice of the brāhmaṇas he took little water. The brāhmaṇas advised, "Mahārāja, water is food and no food. It has no actually food value. So your guest has not returned as yet. You can take little water and observe the completion of dvādaśī." So he did it, and Durvāsā came very angry, that "I am your guest, and you have taken food?" That is not food, little water. So he wanted to chastise him. He created a big giant to kill the Mahārāja.

*So immediately Kṛṣṇa's promise... Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. Immediately sudarśana*-cakra came and killed that demon immediately, and then he pursued Durvāsā Muni. Durvāsā Muni first of all approached Lord Śiva because he was devotee of Śiva: "Please give me protection." He said, "Oh, it is not possible for me. If sudarśana-cakra is after you, I cannot do anything." Then similarly, he approached Brahmā. So he also said, "No, this is not possible." Then he was so powerful that he approached Lord Viṣṇu even, personally, in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka. He refused to help him. He said, "Durvāsā Muni, unless you beg pardon from Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, there is no question of excusing you. The sudarśana-cakra will not excuse." Therefore Vaiṣṇava aparādha is very, very offensive. You should be very careful. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned vaiṣṇava aparādha, hātī mata. Vaiṣṇava aparādha, offense at the feet of Vaiṣṇava, is exactly like mad elephant. If a mad elephant enters your garden, then he spoils everything. This has been given. Vaiṣṇava aparādha means hātī mātā. Mātā means mad, and hātī means elephant. So we should be very, very careful not to commit any offense at the feet of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava does not take any offense. He does not care who is offender, but Kṛṣṇa takes care. Kṛṣṇa will never tolerate if a person is Vaiṣṇava aparādha. Mind that. Just like a big man. You can offend him, he doesn't mind. But if he does something harmful to his child, so he becomes very angry.

Similarly, here also, Lord Viṣṇu... Just see how much powerful was Durvāsā Muni that he could cross over the material universe and go to the Vaikuṇṭha universe and see the Lord personally. How much powerful yogi he was, just you can... There is no such yogi, at least at the present moment. He could see, but he was refused by Lord Viṣṇu, and he came back to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, and Ambarīṣa Mahārāja was standing without aking any food, that "This brāhmaṇa came at my place. Somehow or other, unnecessarily he became angry and he has left. So unless he comes back, I cannot take any food." So he took only one year. The modern scientists, they are estimating that to go to the topmost planet of this universe, it will take forty thousands of years. That is their estimation. Now, Durvāsā Muni, by his yogic power, he not only crossed over this material space and the material universe, but he went to the other space, paravyoma, where he saw Lord Viṣṇu, and he came back within a year. So that is yoga. One can reach even the sun planet by the beams. This is yoga practice. By touching the beams he can go to the sun planet. There are so many wonderful things. So Durvāsā Muni was a great yogi. He knew all these things. Still, he was defeated before a Vaiṣṇava. He had to come and immediately fall down, "Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, kindly excuse me. I have done offense." Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was so humble that "You are in trouble, brāhmaṇa, so whatever I have got, asset, whatever I have done austerity, penance, and..., you take immediately and be excused." This is Vaiṣṇava: "You take all my asset." So there was very friendly. Then both of them took prasādam, and then Durvāsā Muni could understand what is the power of devotee. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. So be very much careful to remain a spotless devotee. Then all success is there. There is no doubt about it. There are so many instances.

So this is transcendental body. It has nothing to compare with the material body. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Kṛṣṇa also says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. So one has to know Kṛṣṇa. But that tattvataḥ, in truth to understand Kṛṣṇa, is very difficult job.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Not to understand superficially but to understand tattvataḥ. Then you are liberated immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. One who has understood Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, he is immediately liberated person. He is fit for being transferred to the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Punar janma... One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he will have to repeat birth after birth. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa-hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti*-you cannot escape death, birth, death, old age and disease. It is not possible.



*So if you want actually your life successful, you must try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Then your life is successful. And to understand Kṛṣṇa, no other method will help you. Kṛṣṇa said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Never said that "I can be understood by yogic process or by karma, by jñāna." The modern politicians, they stress on karma because they want to work hard like hogs and dog. They think karma*-yoga... So karma-yoga is good, but karmīs are mūḍhas. Those who are simply working hard day and night for sense gratification, they are no better than the hogs and dogs. They are no good. But karma-yoga is different thing. Karma-yoga means one who has got attachment for producing something, working something. So Kṛṣṇa said that "Yes, you can do, but," yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad-ar... [Bg. 9.27], "the result you must give to Me." Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī [Bg. 6.1].

*So anyone who does not take the result of his karma, then he is sannyāsī. Suppose you earn... You are a businessman. You have earned two lakhs of rupees, but give it to Kṛṣṇa. Anāśritaḥ karma*-phalam. Otherwise what you will do with these two lakhs of rupees? If you don't take it, will you throw it away? "No, why shall I throw it? It should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa." So let them... People are very much enthusiastic to earn money in this material world. We can see practically, especially in the Western world. But if they engage their profit for pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then their money will no more be engaged in releasing atomic bomb. Otherwise it will be used for releasing atomic bomb. I shall break your head and you shall break my head. Both of them, we shall finish.

Thank you very much. (end)



761121SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.34

-

Vṛndāvana, November 21, 1976



Pradyumna: "In this way Lord Ṛṣabhadeva followed the behavior of cows, deer and crows. Sometimes He moved or walked, and sometimes He sat down in one place. Sometimes He lay down, behaving exactly like cows, deer and crows. In that way, He ate, drank, passed stool and urine and cheated the people in this way."



Prabhupāda:



*evaṁ go*-mṛga-kāka-caryayā vrajaṁs tiṣṭhann āsīnaḥ śayānaḥ kāka-mṛga-go-caritaḥ pibati khādaty avamehati sma

[SB 5.5.34]



A character, avadhūta, without any connection with human bodily activities, Ṛṣabhadeva remained lying down on the street just like animals. We see so many cows and birds and crows, they do not care for anything of this material world, but eating, sleeping, mating, that is there. As in the human society, so amongst the lower animals the same activities are there. There is no change. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Śāstra says viṣayaḥ, the objects of sense enjoyment, sarvataḥ syāt, everywhere. There is no difference. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. So viṣaya. Sometimes we say, viṣayī. Viṣayī, generally they mean a man having estates to manage. But actually viṣaya means this eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. These things are there. So He was callous: "Never mind." Although He was the emperor, but when He took the position of avadhūta, without any conception of body, He became like ordinary animals, exemplifying that the, so far the body is concerned, the activities of the body, there is no difference between the lower animals and the higher animals; *or, in other words, without spiritual conception of life, simply in the bodily conception of life we are equal with the animals. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ sāmānyam etad paśubhiḥ narāṇām.



*So our real life is spiritual life, not this bodily conception of life. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that anyone who is above the bodily conception of life, he is liberated person. Saṁsāra bandhana Deha*-smṛti nāhi yāra, saṁsāra-bandhana kāhāṅ tāra. Deha-smṛti: "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya." These are bodily conception of life. One who forgets this bodily conception of life, he is liberated. So how we can forget bodily conception of life? It can be forgotten. Just like one big person Sometimes we have seen practically. We have, of course, heard, we have not seen, that Mr. Stalin, the great Communist leader, he was to undergo a surgical operation of the intestine. So the physician, the doctor, surgeon, he wanted to give him anaesthetic, chloroform. He refused: "There is no need of. Let the operation go on. I shall see what is there within the belly." Strong-minded, here, even in material conception, he was, he undergo, underwent the surgical operation without any chloroform. So that is possible. If one is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has no more bodily conception of life. That is not to be imitated. It is on the highest stage it is possible to forget completely, and he is liberated. Deha-smṛti nāhi yāra saṁsāra bandhana kāhāṅ tāra. He is no more conditioned by the material nature.

So how it can be possible? It can be possible. I have given already one crude example. Similarly, why Mr. Stalin could tolerate without any trouble? Because he was a leader. He was always absorbed in the thought of how he could advance the Communist cause. This is the real reason. Similarly, if we take our cause very seriously, our... What is our cause? That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is explained by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī:

īhā yasya harer dāsye

karmaṇā manasā vacā

nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu

*jīvan*-muktaḥ sa ucyate



*If you become fully absorbed in the thought of serving Kṛṣṇa, īhā... Īhā means complete absorption in the thought, "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa?" What is serving Kṛṣṇa? That is explained by Kṛṣṇa, that He... We can see from his practical behavior, ācāraṇa. Not only His ācāraṇa, behavior, but later on, His incarnation, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's ācāraṇa, or behavior. What is that? To spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa also came for the same purpose, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad*-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati [Bg 18.68]. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also came for the same purpose, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we follow their footsteps and be fully engaged in spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately we become liberated.



This is the formula: īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā vacā. We act three ways: by our bodily activities, by the mind, and by words. So if we engage our body Body means senses. What is this body? So long the hand is working, the eyes are working, the legs are working, all these different karma and jñāna, indriyas, they are working, then it is body. Otherwise, if the indriyas do not work, then it is dead matter. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur [Bg. 3.42]. So these indriyas, so long the indriyas are working, that means my body is working, I am alive. Therefore if we engage our indriyas in the service of Kṛṣṇa, then this material..., not This is not material activities. To engage the senses in the matter of serving Kṛṣṇa, these are not material activities. These are all spiritual activities. And the difference between the Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy, that the Māyāvāda philosophy, they want to stop activities. They think stopping of all activities is perfection, śūnyam, śūnyavādi. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi. Simply stop material. But what is the positive engagement? That they do not know. That is the difference. Positive engagement means serving Kṛṣṇa. That positive engagement means, engagement means, acting means, the employment of the senses.

*So when we employ our senses in the positive activities, that is liberation. That is liberation. Just like a diseased man and a healthy man, what is the difference? The difference is that a healthy man is engaged in healthy activities, and the diseased man is engaged in diseased activities. The diseased man is also lying down, and the healthy man is also lying down. There is vast of difference. The diseased man is also eating, and the healthy man is eating. There is vast difference. So these activities, devotional activities, are not material activities. Material activities means sense gratification, and spiritual activities means to carry out the orders of Kṛṣṇa. This is the difference. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam means purified senses must be there. We are living entities. There must be senses. There must be desires. That is not possible because we are living entities. If our senses do not work, if we do not desire, then what is the difference between the stone and myself? The stone does not move, the stone does not act, the stone does not desire. So if I become like stone, then what is the benefit? No. The nirviśeṣavādi, śūnyavādi, they want to make oneself like stone. That is not curing. They give up everything. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā. They That is not mithyā but temporary. Anyway, they simply give up.

But real thing is to accept the positive life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is bhakti. Anukulyena...

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*So hṛṣīka means senses. Because I stop material activities, that does not mean my senses are also finished. No. Senses are there. That is purified senses. When I do not act for any material purpose, that means my sense activities are purified, and that is bhakti. That is bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This is little difference, not very great difference. People are One has to learn. Ādau gurvāśrayaṁ sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. Sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. To accept guru means to give up all material desires and be ready to ask from guru, "What shall I do?" Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he asked this question, that "By Your grace I am now released from my responsible activities." He was a minister of Nawab Hussain Shah, so he had many responsible activities, but he resigned from the post. And when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu he asked, "Now, by Your grace, I am now relieved from all material activities. Now kindly tell me what shall I do." So doing, it is not stopped. The Māyāvāda philosophy means stop doing. Jagat mithyā: there is no more activities. That cannot stay. That is artificial. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tathā patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. If you give up this world as material*-you have nothing to do-then you'll fall down again. Patanty adhaḥ. This is the śāstra injunction. So therefore our Gosvāmīs, under the śāstra..., that "Engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa activities; otherwise you will fall down." Īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā vacā.



*So here is Ṛṣabhadeva giving example. So far the body is concerned, it has nothing to do with the spiritual activities. The body is as good as that of the animals, the crows and the cows, birds, beasts. He is showing the same now, that so far body is concerned, it is the same thing. But when you come to the spiritual platform, that is... This is negation or equation with the material body. But real activities are ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama. Simply be ready to work for Kṛṣṇa, sad*-dharma-pṛcchāt, as Sanātana Gosvāmī exemplified. He came to Caitanya Maha Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. He was minister. His business was with the big, big men, maṇḍala-pati. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm sadā tucchavat: "It has no meaning. No more dealing with them." Tucchavat. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. And in order to give some benefit to the dīna-gaṇeśakau Gaṇa. Gaṇa means general public. To give them some benefit, that is Vaiṣṇava life. Stop material activities, and for the benefit of the mass of people, dīna. They are very dīna, very poor. Mahad-vicalanaṁ gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. Dīna-cetasām. They're very, very crippled, dīnasām. Gṛhiṇām. Those who are gṛhi, they are very dīna, very poor-hearted, because they do not know anything except to maintain the family.

*Especially in this age a person will be considered very expert if he can maintain his family. Dākṣyaṁ kuṭumba*-bharaṇam. The age is so fallen that if one can maintain one wife and a few children, oh, he is Dakṣa Mahārāja. Dakṣa Mahārāja is called Dakṣa means he was very expert in begetting children and maintaining them. That is Dakṣa Mahārāja. He was begetting children, many thousands, and Nārada used to visit and make them sannyāsī. That was Nārada's business. So, and Dakṣa in Kali-yuga, that is not very easy thing, to beget many thousands of children and maintain them and get them married and their children, their children. Because this is the happiness of home life. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. These gṛhamedhis' happiness is sexual intercourse, that's all. So he produces dozens of children by sexual intercourse, and when the children are grown-up, educated, then for him also another arrangement for sex, very pompously married. What is the purpose? The same sex. Therefore gṛhamedhi-sukham is sex. "I have enjoyed sex. I have got so many nice children, educated, now working. Now give him facility for sex. Then again, grandchildren."

*So anyone who can maintain like this himself, his children, with wife and eating, āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, then he is expert. And if he becomes a sannyāsī, brahmacārī, does not take part in these stereotyped activities, then he is useless, escaping from the world, escaping. They do not take the responsibility. But that is not the fact. If one can maintain himself as brahmacārī, he is escaping all the tribulations of this material world, escaping certainly, but he is escaping all the tribulations of the ma..., so much botheration. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham [SB 7.9.45]. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Duḥkha-duḥkham, misery after misery. So kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhajaḥ. So these dīna-cetasām, mahad-vicalanam... Those who are mahātmās, their, I mean to say, wandering here and there is to enlighten these poor-hearted gṛhi. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām [SB 2.1.2]. Gṛhamedhi, they have no interest in the spiritual advancement of life. They think that "This is meant for the useless person who could not improve in this materialistic way of life. They have taken this dress as a token for maintaining their body and soul together. Useless person." They think like that. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Because they think, "This is our only interest," gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ [SB 2.1.2].

Those who are gṛhamedhis, they have got many, many things to learn. Just like you see the newspaper, so many subject matter. You'll find different stock exchange report, and this municipal report, and the advertisement, wine advertisement, and meat advertisement. What is that? "Beefeater's" advertisement, and cigarette advertisement, and cinema advertisement, restaurant advertisement even. Gṛheṣu. Nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. Thousands and thousands subject matter you'll find. Here we don't have such newspaper in the Western country. Such a big bunch, at least ten kilos' weight. Is it not? Big, big bunch, throwing. Who will read? But they have the subject matter.

So we have to cease these activities, and we shall consider such activities are no better than the activities of the crows and the cows and the other animals are there. These activities have no value, as the crow or the hogs and the dogs, they are engaged the whole day, activities. But these activities have no value. The human form of life are not meant for these activities. Their purpose is to make these activities and the activities of the crows and cows and lower animals only Kṛṣṇa conscious activities, how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is bona fide. That is our life, real life.

Thank you very much. (end)



761122SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.5.35

-

Vṛndāvana, November 22, 1976



Pradyumna:



*iti nānā*-yoga-caryācaraṇo bhagavān kaivalya-patir ṛṣabho 'virata-parama-mahānandānubhava ātmani sarveṣāṁ bhūtānām ātma-bhūte bhagavati vāsudeva ātmano 'vyavadhānānanta-rodara-bhāvena siddha-samastārtha-paripūrṇo yogaiśvaryāṇi vaihāyasa-mano-javāntardhāna-parakāya-praveṣa-dūra-grahaṇādīni yadṛcchayopagatāni nāñjasā nṛpa hṛdayenābhyanandat

[SB 5.5.35]



"Translation: O King Parīkṣit, just to show all the yogis the mystic process, Lord Ṛṣabhadeva, the partial expansion of Lord Kṛṣṇa, performed wonderful activities. Actually He was the master of liberation and was fully absorbed in transcendental bliss, which increased a thousandfold. Lord Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, the son of Vasudeva, is the original source of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva. There is no difference in Their constitution, and consequently Lord Ṛṣabhadeva awakened the loving symptoms of crying, laughing and shivering. He was always absorbed in transcendental love. Due to this, all mystic powers automatically approached Him, such as the ability to travel in outer space at the speed of mind, to appear and disappear, to enter the bodies of others, and to see things far, far away. Although He could do all this, He did not exercise these powers."



*Prabhupāda: Iti nānā*-yoga-caryācaraṇo bhagavān. So Bhagavān's another name is mahat-pada. Mahat-pada means whatever wonderful things are there, that is resting at His lotus feet. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Samāśritā, if you take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, bhagavān, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] Kṛṣṇa is the origin of all manifestation of Bhagavān, Viṣṇu-tattva. Kṛṣṇa is the origin of Viṣṇu-tattva. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. Viṣṇu-tattva is also originated from Kṛṣṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. He's the ādi-puruṣa. And Kṛṣṇa was accepted in the Bhagavad-gītā, puruṣam ādyam. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12]. So everything is there in Kṛṣṇa. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. All this manifestation of cosmic creation, that is from the mahat-tattva. That mahat-tattva is resting within the dust of the lotus feet of mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. So if one takes shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then this bhava-samudra, the vast ocean of birth and death...



*This material world is called bhava*-samudra. Bhava means the repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is called bhava. And that is like a samudra, great ocean. We can see by practical experience this outer space, the sky. You cannot have any limitation where it is beginning, where is end. Although we can see within our experience, but still, we cannot calculate. In our childhood we used to present a problem before our friends, that eka tala sukuri gunte pare na vyapare (?). Now, one plateful of betel nuts, but nobody can count. The betel nut You can see the sky is within your experience, but how many stars and planets are there, till now nobody has been able to count. It is unlimited. This is only one universe. There are millions and millions, universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Within the brahmajyoti there are innumerable koṭi, jagadaṇḍa-koṭi. And some of the portion is called material; *some portion is called spiritual sky, paravyoma. But the whole spiritual and material sky is full of different planets, and each planet is full of living entities. Janakirna. This very word is used, janakirna, not vacant as these rascals are calculating that it is full of dust. (screeching noise*-aside:) What is that? It is full of dust and rocks. (sounds of children playing) (aside:) Ask them to be... Nothing is full of dust. Dust is there, as well as living entities are also there. Janakirna. This is God's creation.

*And this material world, ananta*-koṭi-brahmāṇḍa, that is material. And Kṛṣṇa says ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. This is only one part manifestation of the creation. Three-fourths part is this paravyoma.

*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*kotiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ...

[Bs. 5.40]



*So this is Kṛṣṇa's opulence. We do not know what is actually opulence. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya. What is Kṛṣṇa's opulence, it is impossible to calculate. It is said that Ananta, Anantadeva, Śeṣaśāyī Anantadeva, He has got thousands and thousands of hoods, and He is chanting, describing about Kṛṣṇa, in ananta, unlimited mouths, for unlimited time. It is still unable. Advaitam acyutam ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. This is yogic power. Therefore it is said, nānā-yoga-caryācaraṇam: "All yogic perfection is there."



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo...

[Bg. 6.47]



*That is first*-class yogi. You want yogic power, mystic power, but if you keep Kṛṣṇa within your core of heart, naturally by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you can perform all... Not the devotee can perform. Devotee is simply dependent on Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa can perform unlimited mystic powers through His devotee.



*This is Kṛṣṇa's activity. A devotee never takes the credit of any wonderful thing. But it is a fact. What wonderful thing we can play? Kṛṣṇa can do that. Therefore His name is nānā*-yoga-caryācaraṇo bhagavān kaivalya-patiḥ. Kaivalya-patiḥ. Kevaladvaitavādī, Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that kaivalya, to become one, one... Just like if you fly in the sky, after going long distance we cannot see you. It appears that you are no longer existing, you have mixed up, you have become one with the sky. But actually it is not the fact. That is not one with God. I cannot see you. The example is given: just like a green bird enters into a green tree. So it appears that the tree has become, the bird has become one with the tree, no more separate existence. No. It appears like that. Actually that is not the fact. The fact is that the bird, green bird, existing with the green tree, but due to my defect in the eyes I am seeing it has become one.

*Actually it is not so. Every individual living entity is always individual. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, we are individuals. In the past we were individuals, at the present we are individuals, and in the future we shall continue to be individuals." There is no question of oneness. Oneness means to agree to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness. There is no disobedience, "Whatever You say, I accept"*-that is oneness. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. That is oneness. At the present moment we differ. We make differences. "Here is the opinion of the American. Here is the opinion of Indian. Here is the opinion of the German. Here is the opinion of the śūdra, and so on, so on. So here means disagreement, always disagreement. Because I am envious of you, you are envious of me, so how there can be agreement? So wherefrom this enviousness has begun? Because we are envious of Kṛṣṇa. Because we are envious of Kṛṣṇa-"Why Kṛṣṇa become God? I am also God." This is the beginning of enviousness, this rascaldom, that "Why Kṛṣṇa shall become alone God?" He said, māṁ ekaṁ śaraṇam. "Why Kṛṣṇa alone?" They say, the rascal philosophers say, 'This is sophistry. It is demanding too much. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Why? Why shall I accept You as the Supreme?" This enviousness begins. This is the beginning of envy.

*So we become envious, each other. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for the envious persons. It is meant for very liberal, paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*One who has become sama*-darśinaḥ, he is perfectly learned. And that is very difficult. It is meant for them. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. It is not meant for such bhangi (?), one who thinks that "My Hinduism is better than your Muhammadanism," or he thinks, "My Muhammadanism is better than your Hinduism." The matsaratam, it is in religious platform... There is matsara. That matsaratā dharma, that kind of religious system... Just like there are everywhere the same thing. In Ireland the fighting is going on between the Protestants and the Catholics. Is it not? Going on continuously. Now it has become so dangerous that you cannot walk on the street. At any moment there will be bombs. Last time when I was in London I had the experience. All of a sudden our car was diverted. The police came: "There is bomb. You cannot go there." So this is going on. In London, in Germany, and other places it has become a terrible place. At any moment there can be bomb. And what is the bombing? The fight between the Catholics and the Roman Catholics and Protestants. Just like we have got experience, Pakistan and India, in 1947. Calcutta itself became divided into two, Pakistan and Hindustan. Nobody was going. There is one big road, Chitpoor Road. So up to Hanson Road, it is Hindustan, and after that, it is Pakistan. The Pakistanis did not dare to come to this side.



*So this is matsara. The matsaratā, enviousness, that is the nature of this material world. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness, kṛṣṇa*-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā-matiḥ, it is very, very rare. Rūpa Gosvāmī said, "This rare thing, if you can purchase, do it immediately wherever available." Kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā-matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate: "If it is available, if you can purchase it, you do it." "So purchase it? I can try, but what price I have to pay?" Tatra laulyam ekalam mulyam: "The price is simply you must be very, very eager to have it. That's all." "Oh, that I can do. It is not very difficult. I am so much eager after money, after woman, and so I shall transfer." So Kṛṣṇa..., Rūpa Gosvāmī says, "No, no. It is not so easy."

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ

krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate

tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam

*na labhyate janma*-koṭibhis sukṛtibhiḥ...



*Janma*-koṭi sukṛtibhiḥ. If you become pious... Because pious is the good position. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. So to become pious is good because there is hope of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you remain impious, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. If you remain sinful, then you'll remain always rascal. You'll never understand Kṛṣṇa. You'll never understand. Therefore we must try to become pious. And that pious means no sinful activities. Therefore we proscribe four sinful things, the pillars of sinful life: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling-four pillars. If you break these four pillars from the very beginning of your spiritual life, then you stand on the platform. But if your, these four pillars are there, you stand on a false platform, not on the spiritual platform. That is yogic siddhi. Yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām.



*So this eagerness to have Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa*-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā-matiḥ, that eagerness is even impossible-janma-koṭi-sukṛtibhiḥ. It is simply happened by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and His devotee. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Vedeṣu durlabham. Practical purpose of studying Vedas, vedānti... That vedānti means to understand Kṛṣṇa. But vedeṣu durlabham. At the same time, it is said "It is very, very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa by becoming so-called Vedānti." Actually Vedānta means Anta means the last word. The last work of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. So to understand Kṛṣṇa, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. But it can be done through the mercy of devotee. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Adurlabha. If you satisfy a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he can give you Kṛṣṇa like this, "Take it." Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Bhakta can do that. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. You come through bhakta or come through bhakti.

*So bhakti means unless you become an apprentice of a bhakta, how you can attain bhakti? That is not possible. Therefore the bhakti-mārga, it is instructed by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, ādau gurvāśrayam: "If you want bhakti, then you must accept bhakta as a guru." Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Bhakti means uttamam. Bhakti is not the activities of this material world. Uttamam. Urd-gata-tamo hy asmat. There is no material quality. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That is uttamam. Here, so long we are in the tama, tamasi mā. "Don't remain in tama, envious." Tamasi mā jyotir gama. So bhakti is uttama. When you are transcendental, above this darkness of material world, then you can accept the If you are actually interested in the uttama, something beyond this darkness of ignorance, then you accept one guru. Don't keep a guru as a fashion to satisfy your senses: "My dear guru, can you make some gold?" "Yes." "Oh, first-class guru." No. That is not guru. That is your flattery. You want something according to your order-"Guru, cure my disease," "Guru, give me some gold," "Guru, give me this. Show me some wonderful mystic power"*-that is order supplier. No, guru is not order supplier. Guru can give you the way how to have mercy of Kṛṣṇa. That is guru. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Bhagavat-prasāda. If you want mercy of Kṛṣṇa, then you have to satisfy the devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. "Never become envious of guru." Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā-deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23].

*So this is the process. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. If you are actually interested something which is beyond this tama, this darkness of material world, then you require a guru. Otherwise it is not for you. So what is the... "Yes, I am prepared that 'what is that guru?' " Tasmād... Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam, this is guru. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam: "He knows the Vedic conclusion. He knows the Vedic conclusion." Śābde pare. There are two kinds of sounds. Just like we are speaking. This is also sound, but this is para sound, uttama sound, para*-prakṛti. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not ordinary sound. It is para-prakṛti. Golokera prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. Hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana is not this material sound. If you think it is material sound, you are rascal. Therefore they are wonderful. The American people have become wonderful, astonished how simply by chanting they becoming brainwashed. That is the actual fact. The rascals, they do not know how these people are giving up illicit sex, meat-eating-their life and soul, all these things. How they are giving up unless they have become mad, hearing? The hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana can do that. Yes. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was chastised by His guru, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21], so He said that "You are rascal. You cannot read Vedānta. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said, "Yes, and chanting, I have become mad."

So this is actually the fact. But these rascals cannot calculate that how simply by chanting they are forever becoming out of home, no more return. "My dear son, come back. Take all these things." "No, sir. I am..." This was actually proved. Our Gargamuni, his father is very rich man. He wanted to take back the son from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. He was unable. Hardly! So many fathers. Our... So many... Not so many, few, they left this movement, but they could not stay outside. Again come. That is brainwash.

Thank you very much. (end)



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Canto 5.6: Lectures





761123SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.1

-

Vṛndāvana, November 23, 19



*Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: King Parīkṣit asked Śukadeva Gosvāmī: My dear Lord, for those who are completely pure in heart, knowledge is attained by the practice of bhakti*-yoga, and attachment for fruitive activity is completely burned to ashes. For such people, the powers of mystic yoga automatically arise. They do not cause distress. Why, then, did Ṛṣabhadeva neglect them?"



Prabhupāda:



*na nūnaṁ bhagava ātmārāmāṇāṁ yoga*-samīrita-jñānāvabharjita-karma-bījānām aiśvaryāṇi punaḥ kleśadāni bhavitum arhanti yadṛc-chayopagatāni

[SB 5.6.1]



*So ātmārāmāṇām, ātmārāmāṇām, self-satisfied. There are two kinds of men: ātmārāma and apaśyatām atmā-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]*-one who does not know what is the soul and what is the business of the soul. Apaśyatām atmā-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. Ātma-tattvam... First of all, one has to understand that "I am not this body. I am ātmā, soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi." Then we fix up our business. If I do not know what I am... Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu: grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, satya kari māni āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni. This is going on. So-called learned philosophers, scientist, educationist-people call them learned scholars. But Sanātana Gosvāmī refused to accept. He said, grāmya-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita satya kari māni. That is our nature. Just like a beggar comes, he gives his blessing, "Sir, you become king. You become opulent. You...," so on, so on. So he thinks, "Now this beggar is blessing me. I may be... It may be I become a king. 'All right, you take some rupees.' " So this is not... They do not know atmā-tattvam. They think that "This beggar's blessing will make me happy." No. One should know atmā-tattvam and act accordingly.



*That atmā*-tattva begins after being liberated.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate param

[Bg. 18.54]



*That is atmā*-tattvam. One should know simply understanding ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am not this body; *I am a spirit soul." That is also knowledge, at least, than the karmīs. Karmīs, they have been described by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura as mūḍhas, asses. They do not know what is the aim of life, simply working. Śva*-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. So in śāstra, the human being who has no knowledge of atmā-tattva, such person is compared with four kinds of animals. Śva, śva means dog. Viḍ-varāha, viḍ-varāha means the pig. You have seen in Vṛndāvana so many pigs are loitering, searching after stool. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra. Uṣṭra also you have seen. They are so foolish that the thorny herbs..., and the tongue is cut, and there is blood oozing out, and the blood is tasted with the thorns, and he thinks, "I am eating very palatable things." He's eating thorn, but because it is mixed up with his own blood, the foolish animal is thinking it is very tasteful. So these animals have been selected to compare with the human being if they are apaśyatām atmā-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām.



śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

*apaśyatām atmā*-tattvaṁ

*gṛheṣu gṛha*-medhinām

[SB 2.1.2]



*That is a person, one who does not know atmā*-tattva. And one who knows atmā-tattva and the business of atmā-tattva, they are called ātmārāma, ātmārāma, enjoying.



*Unless we become ātmārāma, there is no possibility of happiness. Just like these Gosvāmīs. They were very opulent ministers, but they were not happy. They resigned from the post. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. Because there was no happiness. And what they adopted? They adopted the life of a mendicant. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. For doing good to the others they accepted kaupīna-kanthāśritau. So it is not a business of imitation, that "I am following the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī." That is not so easy to become a Rūpa Gosvāmī, ātmārāma. They were busy, very busy in transcendental activities. Simply to give up the family life or big post and come to Vṛndāvana and live cheaply by begging some capati and become Rūpa Gosvāmī, that is not ideal. You should follow Rūpa Gosvāmī, their footprints. Tyaktvā tūrṇam-aśeṣa-maṇḍala. First of all, Rūpa Gosvāmī, their giving up family life was meaningful. But if somebody, out of poverty, he comes to Vṛndāvana to solve the capati problem, (laughter) that is not Rūpa Gosvāmī.

*Rūpa Gosvāmī, they were engaged*-nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. They were simply thinking, "How these rascals will be benefitted by Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" That is what, their business, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Prahlāda Mahārāja was anxious not for himself. Naivodvije para duratyayā-vaitaranyas tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ. "My Lord, personally I have no problem. It is finished." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. Dhruva Mahārāja also said the same thing. A devotee, for personal... Because they are ātmārāma. They have no business for personal satisfaction. They are completely satisfied, ātmārāma. But they have got another dissatisfaction: that seeing men like us engaged in sense gratification and working whole day and night like dogs and pigs, so they are very much anxious. Tato vimukha-cetasa. "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are working so hard day and night like asses and pigs and dogs." They are very much anxious for this, "How to stop this foolish person from this unnecessary trouble?" Unnecessary trouble. That Ṛṣabhādeva has already instructed us in the beginning, that "Don't spoil your life working so hard like hogs and dogs. No, this is not good." Na sādhu manye. "This is not good." But they are thinking... Now it is advertised that "Work hard. Work hard." And the people have come to the stage of pulling thela and rickshaw, and still, they have to work hard. This is the position. Because they do not know what is..., how to become ātmārāma. That is the difficulty.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to teach people how to become ātmārāma. When one becomes ātmārāma, then yoga*-samīrita-jñānam. Bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga, if one takes to bhakti-yoga, then automatically the atmā-jñāna, atmā-tattva jñāna, becomes developed. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ [SB 1.2.7]. Simply if you engage yourself in the devotional service of Vāsudeva... Vāsudeva means Kṛṣṇa, the son of Vasudeva. Another meaning of Vāsudeva: "who is all-pervading." Sarvatra vasate iti vāsudevaḥ. God is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham.

*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac*-chaktir asti-jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam aham...

[Bs. 5.35]



*That is Vasudeva feature of Kṛṣṇa. He is, as Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, aṇḍāntara*-stham, within this universe. And paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So this Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, if we engage ourself in devotional service, that is yoga. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, Kṛṣṇa says. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That is real yoga, mad-āśrayaḥ. "Under Me, or a person who has taken shelter in Me, mad-āśrayaḥ." Mad-āśrayaḥ means either...It is not possible to take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa directly. That is not possible. You have to take shelter of a person who has already taken shelter of the lotus feet of... That is mad-āśrayaḥ. So that yogam... So this ātmārāma. These Gosvāmīs, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they are ātmārāma. Their karma-bīja is fried. What is said? Ava-bharjitāni. Even if you pour water, no, it is finished.



*So those who are ātmā*-rama, those who have taken to the bhakti-yoga, their karma-phala is finished. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. They are not... The devotee may be observed that he's also engaged in ordinary work. He's also printing books and selling them and maintaining maṭhas and temples. "So he is also doing business." No, that is not business. That is bhakti. Sometimes bhakti appears to be like ordinary karma, but it is not karma. It is karma in this way, that the same peas, it looks like peas, but if you sow it, it will not produce anymore. Bharjitāni. Ava-bharjitāni. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. If you work for Kṛṣṇa, it appears to be ordinary work, but it is not ordinary work. It is not the cause of bandhanaḥ. But if you work for Kṛṣṇa, there is no more karma-bandhanaḥ. Karmāṇi nirdahati ca kintu ca bhakti-bhājām. All others... Yas tv indragopam mahā indra... There is a germ, it is called indragopa. From indragopa to that Indra the King of heaven, everyone is bound up by the laws of karma. Everyone is bound up. But a bhakta is not bound up. How he can be bound up? Because as soon as he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa gives him assurance, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarvapāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi; immediately finish...

*So we can become immediately liberated. Liberated means who has no karma*-bandhana, no resultant action. Ava-bharjitāni. That is liberation. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Devotee, he may seem, it may appear, that he is also dying, but his death and ordinary death is different. Here-tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]; *and others*-they are dying tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. There is a difference. Karmī... It appears that karmīs... People may say, "A karmī is dying, and bhakta is dying. What is benefit?" No. He's not dying, but he is dying or giving up this body for living forever. And the nondevotees, he is dying to accept another body. That is the difference. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you remain a minister, a president or some very big man, but if you are not a devotee, then you have to accept another body. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. You have to... Daiva-netreṇa, by superior management, superior administration, you'll be judged what kind of karma you have done. Although you are minister, but you have done, acted like a hog, like a dog, then you have to accept the body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor dehopapatti. But that we do not know. They do not believe. At the modern days they do not believe that there is next life and it is conducted by the laws of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ sarvaśaḥ... [Bg. 3.27]. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Why there are difference of birth? One is king, another is dog; *one is tree, another is worm. They are all living entities, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayoyaḥ [Bg. 14.4]. They are all part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "They are all My part and parcel." Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. They're struggling in this material nature because conducted by this mind and indriyas.

*So we have to give up this. Ātmārāma means we have to give up for good the dictation of the mind. Then you are liberated. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇanuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. This is Ambarīṣa Mahārāja's example. All devotees, they have no other desires. Vaikuṇṭha. Prahlāda Mahārāja also says, tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ: [SB 7.9.43] "I am simply engaged in describing the powerful activities of Your Lordship." That should be our life. If you stick to this point, then we shall not speak anything except glorifying the Supreme Lord. If we make that point fixed up, we shall not talk foolishly. Simply vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇanuvarṇane. We shall use our legs to go to the temples. We shall use our eyes to see the Deity, how nicely He is decorated, and appreciate. We shall use our hand in cleansing the temple, in playing the instruments, khol, karatāla, for chanting. So, ear for hearing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, nose for smelling the flower offered to Kṛṣṇa... In this way, hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When you engage your senses, hṛṣīkeśa sevanam... The senses are not yours, because this body is given by Kṛṣṇa through the agency of māyā. You wanted this thing. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He knows what you are wanting because He is constantly seeing you. He is sitting within your heart, the same tree, two birds. One bird is I am, the individual soul; another bird is Kṛṣṇa. So He knows, and He is giving us, giving me the facility.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānām

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmāyān sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



He knows what I am desiring, and He is asking māyā, "Give him this body."



*So in this way, if we remain entrapped in the laws of material nature, then it is not good. Na sādhu manye yata atmāno yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. This practice we should give up. Mano*-dharma. Mental concoction. We should immediately accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction and be situated in atmā-dharma. That is ātmārāma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekāṁ śaraṇam vraja [Bg. 18.66].

Thank you very much. (end)



761124SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.2

-

Vṛndāvana, November 24, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī replied: My dear King, you have spoken correctly. However, after capturing animals, a cunning hunter does not put faith in them for they might run away. Similarly, those who are advanced in spiritual life do not put faith in the mind. Indeed, they always remain vigilant and watch the mind's action."



Prabhupāda:



ṛṣir uvāca:

*satyam uktaṁ kintv iha vā eke na manaso 'ddhā viśrambham anavasthānasya śaṭha*-kirāta iva saṅgacchante.

[SB 5.6.2]





First of all, one must prove that he's trustworthy; *then we can accept him as trustworthy. Our mind is not fixed up, very restless. Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham [Bg. 6.34]. This is right example. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He was competent enough, mukta*-puruṣa, but still, he was chanting regularly 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Now you have become old man. You can reduce the number." Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau **. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī especially, he was very strict in the matter of following the regulative principles, Raghunātha dāsa Goswami. He was living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He was very rich man's son and practiced very rigidly vairāgya.



*Bhakti*-yoga means vairāgya, as far as possible to deny material necessities, that is vairāgya. It is called vairāgya-vidyā. Śrīla Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya has said, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Vairāgya-vidyā. Bhakti-yoga means vairāgya. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. This is bhakti-yoga, no more any necessity for material things. Niṣkiñcinasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. There are so many. Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were liberated persons. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's God Himself, but still, to teach us, He was observing the regulative principles of a sannyāsī very, very strictly. These things, to teach us... Similarly, Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he's called Brahma-Haridāsa. Sometimes he is called Yavana-Haridāsa. Yavana means Muslim or those who are not in the Vedic principles, yavana, mleccha. Just like we have seen some temples. Our foreign devotees are not allowed because they have got the rules that mlecchas and yavanas, because they are very unclean, they should not be allowed. But that should not be applicable to the devotees of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, because they have learned how to remain clean, how to follow the... At least, they are expected. They promised at the time of initiation, "Yes, I shall not do this. I shall not do this." So if he's actually following the rules and regulations, he is no more unclean-simply by chanting.

apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bāhyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ



He become... If we follow our promise... That is gentlemanly. If you have promised something, you must follow it. That is gentlemanly.



So because we may fail... There is chance; *we are prone to fail. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. But sometimes we forget. Not sometimes*-practically always we forget. That is material. When we forget that we are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is material life. Otherwise, if we remain servant of Kṛṣṇa, even in this material body, still, we are liberated.

īhā yasya harer dāsye

karmaṇā manasā vacā

nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu

*jīvan*-muktaḥ sa ucyate



*So we must follow the rules and regulation very... Therefore it is said that viśrambham anavasthānasya śaṭha*-kirāta iva saṅgacchante. We should not believe our mind, that we have become perfect. By mental dictation we should not be guided. That is a very bad practice, to think of, that "I have now become liberated, I don't require to follow the regulative principles." So we must be very careful.



Here we have quoted that,

*yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-karma

na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat

yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva

pāvanāni manīṣiṇām



*Yajña, dāna. Brahmacārī should offer yajña, gṛhastha should give in charity, and sannyāsī, vānaprastha, should undergo tapasya. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma. We should not give up this, these things. "Because I have become sannyāsī*-I have given up my family-therefore I give up also all other regulative principles." No. That you cannot. The sannyāsī means... Sannyāsī, they have got also rules and regulation. Caitanya Mahāprabhu very rigidly followed. He did not lie down even on a quilt, only one naked cloth. He did not use... And no woman should come to offer Him obeisances very near. They must do it from a distant place. He was so strict. One of His personal associates, Haridāsa, Junior Haridāsa, he simply glanced over a young woman with lusty desire. He immediately rejected him: "Ask Haridāsa not to come anymore." So He never excused him very strictly. And Haridāsa, being disappointed, he... On his behalf, very close devotees like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Rāmānanda Rāya, big, big devotees, Svarūpa Dāmodara and others, requested Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "He has committed mistake, but he is Your personal servant. Kindly excuse him." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right, then you can call him. You live with him. I shall go from here. You live with him; let Me go away." He was so strict. Then, when Haridāsa Ṭhākura Junior... The senior is another. Then he committed suicide-"Now it is hopeless. I cannot come to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He committed suicide. And when this information was given to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He did not regret. "Oh, this man has committed suicide? Yes, it is right." He said, "Yes, it is right." So He was so strict.



*Therefore in the śāstra it is forbidden that Kali*-yuga is very difficult to follow the rules and regulation of a sannyāsī; *therefore better not to accept sannyāsa. Kalau pañca vivarjayet. Sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam devareṇa sutotpattiṁ kalau pañca vivarjayet [Cc. Ādi 17.164]. Instead of becoming a false sannyāsī, do not accept sannyāsa. This is the injunction of the śāstra. But for preaching work we have to get the help of some sannyāsī, but we should remember that we are in Kali-yuga. We should not be sentimentally very much anxious-"Please give me sannyāsa, give me sannyāsa"*-and then fall down and go to hell. That is not good. That is not good. If one is able to strictly follow the sannyāsa rules and regulation, he should take. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa has said that sannyāsa, real sannyāsa, means one who does not take any remuneration for his service to Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ sa sannyāsī [Bg. 6.1]. "It is my duty. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. To serve Kṛṣṇa is my duty." Kāryam: "I must do it." Actually that mentality is sannyāsa. It doesn't matter whether we have changed the dress or not, but if we decide it, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa; my only duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa," that is sannyāsa.

*So better we should try to stay in this determination than to accept the sannyāsa order by changing the dress and then again we fall down. That is not very good. There are instances like that, but it is not at all good. We should not trust the mind. And even we take, we should be very, very vigilant on the mind. Viśvāso naiva kartavyam. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, (chuckles) viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja*-kuleṣu ca. "Never trust woman and politician." He was a politician, and his wife was kidnapped. He had very bad experience of these two things, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Therefore he gave this injunction, viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca: "Never trust woman and politician." So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was not inexperienced; *he was very experienced. All the ślokas of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita*-very useful for daily affairs. So similarly, we should not trust the mind, that "Now I have become liberated." Never think so. We should always remember that liberation is not so easy thing, but if we follow the rules and regulation, then there is every possibility of becoming liberated.

*But this is the business in the human...Tapaḥ. That is the instruction. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1]. You must purify your existence. This is the only business of human life, tapasya. So tapasya means brahmacārī. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya means brahmacaryeṇa, no sex life. That is tapasya, real tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena ca. Even if you practice yoga system, this regulation must be followed, celibacy, not that fashion yoga system. Now in your country there are so many transcendental yogis, and they say, "Yes, whatever you like, you can do. God has given you senses, you must enjoy." These are manufactured cheating processes. But actually yoga means indriya*-samyamaḥ. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Not gymnastic. That is not yoga. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Mind control. The same thing, mind control. So mind you cannot control unless your mind is fully engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. These are the examples.

*So Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī followed very strictly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also followed very strictly, and the Rūpa*-Sanātana Gosvāmī followed very strictly. Not that because one is living in Vṛndāvana with a short cut cloth and therefore he has become like Rūpa Gosvāmī... Rūpa Gosvāmī was fully engaged. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. They were in Vṛndāvana, but they were always thinking how to do good to the people, to this material world. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. Sādhu's concern is to think of the misled materialistic persons. They are always thinking, making plan how to elevate them, they are suffering. This is sādhu. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, sādhu, not that "I have changed my dress in such a way, and people out of sentiment will give me roti, and I shall eat and sleep." That is not sādhu. Sādhu... Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, says who is sādhu. Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. That is sādhu. Who has fully dedicated his life for Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu. Even he has got some bad habits... Bad habits? A sādhu cannot have bad habits because if one is sādhu, if in the beginning he has got some bad habit, that will be rectified. Śaṣvad bhavati dharmātmā. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. If he's actually sādhu, his bad habits will be rectified very soon, very soon, not that he's continuing his bad habits and also a sādhu. That cannot be. That is not sādhu. Maybe due to his past habits, he might have committed some mistake. That can be excused. But if he, in the name of sādhu and become a liberated person, he continues to do all nonsense, he's a cheater. He's not sādhu. Api cet su-durācāro. Cet, yadi, if, by chance, it is possible. But if he sticks to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. In the beginning there may be some mistake, but we must see that "Whether my mistakes are now correct?" That should be vigilance. Never trust the mind. That is the instruction here. Mind should not be trusted. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "After getting up from your sleep, you take your shoes and beat your mind hundred times. This is your first business. And while going to bed, you take a broomstick and beat your mind hundred times. Then you can control your mind. Otherwise it is very difficult."

*So this is... This beating with shoes and broomstick is also another tapasya. For men like us, who have no control over the mind, we should practice this tapasya, beating the mind with shoes and broomstick. Then it can be controlled. And swami means who has control over the mind. Vāco*-vegam, krodha-vegam, udara-vegam, upastha-vegam, manasa-vegam, krodha-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt [No I 1]. This is Rūpa Gosvāmī's instruction. When we can control vāco-vegam... (child crying, Prabhupāda pauses) This is krandana-vegam. (laughs) They cannot control. They cannot control. Therefore they are child. The child can be excused, but if a person who is in the spiritual life, he cannot control, then hopeless. Then he's hopeless. This should be controlled. Vaco-vegam, krodha-vegam, udara-vegam, upastha vegam. But the most important thing is udara-vegam and jihvā-vegam. Jihvā-vegam, it is very controlled. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said that "All the senses are there, but out of them, this jihvā is very dangerous." Tā'ra madhye jihvā ati lobhamoy sudurmati tā'ke jetā kaṭhina saṁsāre. It is very, very difficult to control the tongue.

*Just we can see. Practically I have seen that we... Our prohibited injunctions are that we should not eat meat. So I have seen when on the plane... Of course we never go to the hotel or restaurant, but on the plane we see so many European, American friends traveling. They are eating the meat, not very large quantity, very little quantity. Some of them are eating voraciously, no, but generally I see... But if they give up that little one piece of meat, say, one ounce or two ounce, immediately we can save ourself from so much sinful activities, so many slaughterhouses running on all over the world. If we simply control the tongue, what is that? You are eating a piece of meat. But they cannot. They cannot. Jihvā*-vegam. The tongue is dictating, "No, meat is very nice. Take it." A little. It is not much. He's not living on meat. There are loafs, there are vegetables. Actually he's living on that. Nobody takes two or three loaf, of the same weight meat. Meat, little quantity. But they take loaf, butter, rice, other things. Without vegetables, without food grains, you cannot live. It is simply for the tongue. Tā'ra madhye jihvā ati lobhamoy sudurmati. Simply for this tongue, little only. He cannot live simply on meat unless he's an animal exactly. He has to take vegetable, food grains, butter. These are milk products. Otherwise he has no chance to live. But for the tongue's sake he's taking little piece of meat, and for that reason, we have to maintain thousands and thousands of slaughterhouse. This is our position.

*Therefore tā'ra madhye jihvā ati. Simply for the tongue we are committing so much sinful activities and becoming implicated because implication means there is no God consciousness, no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Two things are there: one is God, and one is the repetition of birth and death. There is no third way. Either you take God... This chance... This is a chance. This human form of life is a chance. Either you go back to home, back to Godhead, or go to hell. I think Christians also, they say. Two things are there. And in our śāstra, Kṛṣṇa says, Bhagavad*-gītā, mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Two things are there. Either go this way or that way. Either go to hell or go to heaven. This is the general, yes. Asat-saṅga-tyaga,-ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra [Cc. Madhya 22.87].

So if you are serious about going back to home, back to Godhead, we must be educated how to control the senses, how to control the senses. Therefore while eating, we are reminded that this eating is... If you do not take it as prasādam, then eating is sense enjoyment.

*śarīra avidyā*-jāl joḍendriya tāhe kāl

*jīve phele viṣaya*-sāgore

tā'ra madhye jihvā ati lobhamoy sudurmati

tā'ke jetā kaṭhina saṁsāre

kṛṣṇa baro doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay

*swa*-prasād-anna dilo bhāi

*sei prasādānna pāo rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-guṇa gāo

*preme ḍāko caitanya*-nitāi



*We should be very cautious, always remembering Caitanya*-Nitāi and practicing the regulative principles, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then it will be all right.



Thank you very much. (end)



761125SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.3

-

Vṛndāvana, November 25, 1976



Pradyumna: "All the learned scholars have given their opinion. The mind is by nature very restless, and one should not make friends with it. If we place full confidence in the mind, it may cheat us at any moment. Even Lord Śiva became agitated upon seeing the Mohinī form of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and Saubhari Muni also fell down from the mature stage of yogic perfection."



Prabhupāda:



tathā coktam-

na kuryāt karhicit sākhyam

manasi hy anavasthite

*yad*-viśrambhāc cirāc cīrṇaṁ

caskanda tapa aiśvaram

[SB 5.6.3]



So it is advised herewith, tathā ca uktam. Although definitely from where it is quoted, it is not described, but it is heard by the paramparā system. That is also authority, not necessarily to know wherefrom it is quoted, but if it is current, it is also evidence. So it is is said by paramparā system, we can understand, that "Do not make any friendship or," what is called, "compromise with mind. Do not do this." As I was saying yesterday, my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "When you get up you beat your mind with shoes hundred times, and when you go to the bed you beat your mind with broomstick hundred times." Then there will be no compromise. If you simply beat your mind... That is required. This is Vedic system. Now, if you want to bring somebody under your control, then you must always chastise him; otherwise it is impossible. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, the moral instruction, he also says, lālane bahavo doṣās tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ: "If you pat your subordinate, then it will increase the faulty habits." Bahavo doṣaḥ. And tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ: "And if you chastise, then they will improve." Tasmāt śiṣyaṁ ca chatraṁ ca tāḍayen na tu lālayet. Therefore it is advised, "Either your son or disciple, you should always chastise them. Never give them lenience." So little leniency, immediately so many faults will grow.



*Now for our practical life we are known all over the world as shaven*-headed. Is it not? Now we are becoming hair-headed. We are forgetting shaving because there is little leniency. Immediately faulty things are creeping in. So we should be known as shaven-headed, not long-hair-headed. This is discrepancy. At least once in a month you must be clearly shaven-headed. In the bright fortnight on the day of pūrṇimā, four days after ekādaśī, once in a month in the bright fortnight, you must be shaved. It is not desirable that in grown-up ages also you should be chastised. That is not desirable. That is also difficult, because when the disciple or the son is grown up, if he is chastised, then he breaks. So before being chastised, you..., we should be conscious that "This is our rules and regulation. We must observe." Therefore it is advised by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe putraṁ mitra-vad ācaret: "After sixteenth year of the disciple or the son, he should be treated as friend." Because if you chastise when he's grown-up, then he'll break up. That is also another risk. So our request is that instead of chastising, with folded hands I request you, don't you become hippies again by growing hair. Keep your head cleansed at least once in a month. That is my request. Neither I can chastise you. I am also old man; you are young men.

*So here the same thing, na kuryāt karhicit sākhyam. To the subordinate never make compromise. We must keep always under control. Of course... Similarly, our mind... The mind is the cause of our material existence, mano-dharma. Why we are in this material world? On account of this change of mind. Our position is jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes the servant thinks, "Why shall I remain a servant? Let me become master." That is natural. A master is always in comfortable situation. Sometimes the servant becomes envious: "Oh, why this man should always remain in comfortable position and we shall serve? Why not we become also in comfortable position? Let me eat as he eats," or "Let me sleep now." These are so-called comforts. So they want to imitate. When the living being imitates the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he falls down. Kṛṣṇa bhuliyā jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare. As soon as he forgets his position-he wants to imitate*-that is the beginning of māyā, falldown. You should be very careful.

*Therefore the brahmacārī... We have to teach the brahmacārī... Brahmācāri gurukule vasan dānto guror hitam. This is brahmacārī, not for his personal benefit, but guror hitam. Then he is brahmacārī. Not that a brahmacārī has to become a very learned scholar in grammar and turīya... These are secondary things. First thing, he has to learn how to control the senses, dānta, how to control the mind. Śamo damaḥ. This is the beginning of brahminical life. If you cannot control your mind, if you cannot control your senses, there is no question of becoming brahmacārī. Brahmacārī, brahme cārati iti brahmacārī. And brāhmaṇa means brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. So these are the beginning, brahmacārī. Brahmacari means who is always in Brahman activities. That is brahmacārī. Or brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Supreme, Supreme Brahman, Parambrahman. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you are liberated. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then we are both brahmacārī or brāhmaṇa, brahma*-jñāna, brahma-bhūtaḥ. These words are there in the śāstra: athāto brahma jijñāsā. Therefore the real life is to inquire about Brahman. Inquiring, inquiring, when the conditioned soul... Now it is jīva-bhūtaḥ. So long we are conditioned by the material nature-prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], bhuṅkte prakṛtijān guṇān-then we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. Otherwise when we come to our real position, that is brahma-bhūtaḥ.

*So that brahma*-bhūtaḥ position can be attained. If we strictly follow the rules and regulation of brahmacārī or brāhmaṇa, then it is possible. Otherwise it will be simply formality. Practical life, brahma-bhūtaḥ. And how do I know that he has become brahma-bhūtaḥ? Prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], no more moroseness, always jolly in any condition of life. Not that "For want of this, one is suffering." There is no want. That, that mentality, that attitude, should be increased. And when it is fully increased, then he's fully satisfied, ātmārāma. That is called ātmārāma. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi, "Oh, I am fully satisfied." Naivodvije para duratyayā-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahā amṛta-magna. As Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "Now I am in the ocean of nectarean. I have no suffering." That is brahma-bhūtaḥ. So this brahma-bhūtaḥ... [break]

*Yoga indriya*-saṁyamaḥ. And the king, head of the indriyas is the mind. So manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. We are struggling in this material world, prakṛti-sthani, bhuṅkte prakṛtijān guṇan. Because we are in this material world-there are three modes of material nature-either of them controlling me. Prakṛtijān guṇan. Therefore you find three kinds of men. Practically we can see richer class, a middle class, and a poorer class. That is always existing. I thought before going to your country, USA, I thought that "The Americans, they are all rich." That's a fact. I don't say that you are poor. You are rich in comparison to India. But still, when I saw that on the Bowery Street so many drunkards are lying down on the footpath, then I thought, "Here is also third class." So either by drinking they are lying on footpath, or by becoming hippies they are lying in the park, and the police is kicking on their face. That means that three classes are always there, either you go to America, or hell or heaven-anywhere-because there are three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Prakṛtijān guṇān. You cannot escape it. There is no question of becoming poor. In the Western countries the government arrangement is so nice. And still, voluntarily they will become poor. That is hippies. Because nature is working. Most of these hippies, they are coming from very respectable family, rich family. I have seen. In Beverly Hills when I was walking in the morning I saw nice boy, there is car, he is coming from a very nice house, but he's a hippie. I have seen it. Why he has become hippie? Prakṛtijān guṇān. He might have taken his birth in a very rich family, respectable family. Because the mode of nature is working, voluntarily he has become hippie. This is going on all over the world. Therefore we have to come to the platform of sattva-guṇa, brāhmaṇa platform. Brāhmaṇa platform.

*So one endeavor is gradually to come to the brāhmaṇa platform. But if we take bhakti*-yogam, immediately you become on the brāhmaṇa platform. This is the advantage. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena... [SB 6.1.15]. What is that?

Pradyumna: Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.



Prabhupāda: What is that word?



Pradyumna: Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.



*Prabhupāda: No. I forget. Mist, what is the English? Nīhāram iva, yes. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Bhāskaraḥ means sun. So when there is mist, (Hindi) as soon as there is sunrise, immediately everything... Otherwise it is very difficult to drive away the fog. The railway train... I have seen it also. In the mid*-ocean immediately there is fog, and the ship immediately stops because there is danger of collision with other ship. At least the ship in which I was going to your country, Jaladuta, so the captain, Mr. Pandia, he immediately used to stop in the mid-ocean and giving horn, "Gaw, gaw," like that. So that was danger, very dangerous. When the sea is rough there is no fog. And as soon as the sea is not rough there is fog. So whether you will go this way or that way, there is misery. Therefore this world is called duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You subdue something and another problem is there. And you solve that problem-another problem... Problematic. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. Kṛṣṇa is recommending that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. How we'll subside this duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam? And we are... Our struggle is... Kṛṣṇa said, "This is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This place is for miseries," and these rascals are trying to adjust things. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These rascals, they are trying to bring peace by material arrangement, mūḍha. Therefore they are mūḍha. It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa has made it suffering. How you can become happy here? But these rascals will not understand. Within the suffering they will try to become happy. That is not possible. The toilet room he wants to make a Deity room. How it is possible? That is not possible.



*So it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15], and you have to practice tapasya if you want to get out of it. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1]. We are now accustomed to this miserable condition of life. If you want actual happiness, then you have to undergo austerity, tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet yasmād brahma*-saukhyam anantam. You are hankering after happiness. That happiness, brahma-sukha, eternal happiness, you will get by practicing tapasya. So don't believe, don't make friendship with your restless mind. This is the instruction. Don't make friendship. Simply beat the mind with shoes and broomstick; *otherwise cannot bring in control. And other alternative is kevalayā bhaktyā. So if you can engage your mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then it is possible. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. Then Kṛṣṇa will control. Kṛṣṇa means light. Darkness, you are suffering in the darkness. So somehow or other, if you bring a light there is no darkness.

*kṛṣṇa*-sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra



*If you keep always within your mind Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, you can see Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, Deity, Baladeva, Balarāma, how He is nicely standing... You can see the nice lotus feet. Don't try to see the face all of a sudden. Try, practice to see the lotus feet constantly. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāra... This is a chance. This temple means to practice how to think of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, Balarāma's lotus feet, always. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Immediately you become bhakta. And as soon as you become a bhakta, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, dhunvanti aghaṁ kṛtsnam: [SB 6.1.15] all kinds of disturbances will be subsided, dhunvanti. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. This is the śāstra injunction.



*So in this Kali*-yuga, to control the mind the yoga practice and this practice and..., this is all failure. It will never be possible. It was possible in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. Now they have manufactured so many meditation. The real meditation is dhyāyato viṣṇu, the Viṣṇu form, four-handed Viṣṇu form, and always try to see Him. That is wanted. These rascals have manufactured something, some light, some this, some that-yoga practice, sleeping. This will not help. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yogis' meditation means to see Viṣṇu mūrti. That is wanted. But they are impersonalists: "Viṣṇu is māyā. Why shall I think of Viṣṇu? Let me see some light." What is that nonsense light? That is also māyā. So what is the wrong there, instead of seeing the light if you see the Viṣṇu form? "No, the light is good. Oṁ is good." But when there is question of personal meditation, they protest.

*Therefore tad*-vijñānarthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In order to learn everything very clearly, he must have the shelter of a bona fide guru. Ādau gurvāśrayam. If we want release from all this disturbance of the material world, then the first and foremost thing is ādau gurvāśrayam. Then,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Guru means tattva-darśī. Tattva-darśī. Otherwise he's useless, waste of time. One has seen the tattva. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam, brahmeti paramātmeti [SB 1.2.11]. Guru means one who knows what is Brahman, what is Paramātmā, what is Bhagavān*-not partial knowledge. The jñānīs, the so-called jñānīs, they reach up to the brahmajyoti, that's all. But that is not complete knowledge. The yogis, they reach, utmost, Paramātmā. That is also not complete. Better than the jñānīs, but it is not complete. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti. When he comes to the platform to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then that is bhakti. That is bhakti. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntaratmānā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*So if you want to be first-class yogi, always think of Kṛṣṇa within your mind. Do not make friendship that you have become very much advanced: "Now my mind is controlled." It is not so easy, sir. Therefore it is warned, na kuryāt karhicit. Never trust your mind. Always distrust. In any moment it, the mind, can drag you. The example is given here, caskanda tapa aiśvaram. Yad-viśrambhāc cirāc cīrṇaṁ caskanda tapa aiśvaram. Even Lord Śiva*-he is called Mahadeva; *not only deva, but Mahādeva*-he became captivated by seeing the young woman's incarnation, Mohinī-mūrti, became so much captivated. The description is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But as soon as the Mohinī-mūrti demonstrated the features of the breast, immediately Lord Śiva became so mad that he forcibly went there and embraced, and there was discharge. Lord Śiva. And what to speak of us? What we are? (laughter) Therefore it is... Lord Śiva is all right, but by their example they are teaching us that "A personality like me become victimized by this māyā's influence. What you are?" Why you should trust and make friendship with your mind, that "I am now complete," artificially? Don't do that. Therefore it is warned, na kuryāt. Na kuryāt karhicit. Never trust your mind, always try to control. And the easiest method recomended in the śāstra and confirmed by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty... [Cc. Ādi 17.21].



Devotees: ...eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.



Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)





761126SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.4

-

Vṛndāvana, November 26, 1976



Pradyumna: "An unchaste woman is very easily carried away by paramours, and it sometimes happens that her husband is violently killed by her paramours. If the yogi gives his mind a chance and does not restrain it, his mind will give facility to enemies like lust, anger and greed, and they will doubtlessly kill the yogi." [SB 5.6.4]



Prabhupāda: Purport?



Pradyumna: "In this verse the word puṁścalī refers to a woman who is easily carried away by men. Such a woman is never to be trusted. Unfortunately, in the present age, women are never controlled. According to the directions of śāstras, women are never to be given freedom. When a child, a woman must be strictly controlled by her father. When she is young, she must be strictly controlled by her husband, and when she is old, she must be controlled by her elderly sons. If she is given independence and allowed to mingle unrestrictedly with men, she will be spoiled. A spoiled woman, being manipulated by paramours, might even kill her husband. This example is given here because a yogi desiring to get free from material conditions must always keep his mind under control. Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura used to say that in the morning our first business should be to beat the mind with shoes a hundred times, and, before going to bed, to beat the mind a hundred times with a broomstick. In this way one's mind can be kept under control. An uncontrolled mind and an unchaste wife are the same. An unchaste wife can kill her husband at any time, and an uncontrolled mind, followed by lust, anger, greed, madness, envy and illusion, can certainly kill the yogi. When the yogi is controlled by the mind, he falls down into the material condition. One should be very careful of the mind, just as a husband should be careful of an unchaste wife."



Prabhupāda:



nityaṁ dadāti kāmasya

cchidraṁ tam anu ye 'rayaḥ

*yoginaḥ kṛta*-maitrasya

patyur jāyeva puṁścalī



*So Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, everything threadbare discussed, very practical, and Absolute Truth. There are social, political, religious. Everything is discussed very scientifically. So here the example is given of the woman, puṁścalī. There are three kinds of woman: kāminī, svairendrī and puṁścalī, according to śāstra. So they become, because... Just like children. They are innocent, and if they are given freedom they will be spoiled. Everyone knows it. If you don't give proper training to the children and allow him to do independently whatever he likes, that means that child is spoiled. Prāpte tu ṣoḍaśa-varṣe...



Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has advised,

lālane bahavo doṣās

tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ

tasmāt putraṁ ca śiṣyam ca

tāḍayen na tu lālayet



*This is required. And Tulasī dāsa, he has also said... Tulasī dāsa is big poet in Hindi language. He has written the Rāma*-carita-manas. His opinion... Not only his opinion, that is the Vedic opinion, that... He says, dhol gamar strī śūdra, paśu śūdra nārī, ei ei sab śāsana ke adhikārī (?). So this statement will not be very palatable to the Western girls. They want independence. In Chicago, when I was there, they talked about independence of the woman. They asked me question. So I replied, "No, woman cannot be given independence." So there was a great agitation against me. In many papers I was very much criticized. But actually it is the fact, because they are innocent, not so intelligent and... These are all practical. We may avoid discussing, but Bhāgavata is very open for discussing all subject matter. That is fact. We should not hide anything artificially. We must discuss the fact. Not only here, the mention it is, the Manu-saṁhitā. Manu-saṁhitā recommends, "A woman should not be given independence." For their interest they must be protected by father, husband, and sons, because if they are polluted, they become very dangerous. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said that duṣṭā bhāryā.



*duṣṭā bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ bhṛtyaś cottara*-dāyakaḥ

*sa*-sarpe ca gṛhe vāso mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ



*"If the wife is not chaste and friend is cheater, or śaṭham..." Śaṭham means duplicity, not very sincere friend. Outwardly he's showing he's very good friend, but inwardly he has got some intention. Such friend, duplicity, and unchaste wife, duṣṭā bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ and bhṛtyaś cottara*-dāyakaḥ, and servant giving reply, and sa-sarpe ca grhe vasaḥ, and in your room if there is a snake... Of course in this big, big concrete building there is no question of snake, but in cottages, huts, made with mud, earth, there are sometimes snakes. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "If you live with a duṣṭā bhāryā and a duplicity friend and an answer-giving servant and a snake, then you are sure to die sometime. You'll be cheated."



So these things are there. The purpose is that our mind is like that, puṁścalī, unchaste wife. Not that everyone is unchaste. We have got many example, the character of woman. It is not that. It is not generalization. But there is chance. If they are not controlled, not properly educated, there is chance of becoming puṁścalī, and there have been many instances that woman, for being attracted by paramour, has killed even one's own son. There are cases. So Bhīṣmadeva also advised that the shyness of woman, lajja, is the control. If you break that shy, what is called, shyness, then there will be disaster. That is the control valve naturally given. And woman's shyness is one beauty, beauty. We have got practical experience. And command also. We have practical experience in our life. You have seen that my friend came, Dinanath Mishra. They were our neighbor. So one day we were sitting on the corridor of the house. One sweeper woman, she wanted to come within, but very shyful, and with a covering of the head, although with broomstick and bucket, she was waiting because we were sitting both side. So she was feeling little shy not to enter the house. So we decided to move so that she may come. This example is given. She is a sweeper, not very respectable, maidservant or sweeper, but on account of her shyness we had to welcome, "Yes, we are moving. You come in." Just see. This is psychology. Therefore Bhīṣmadeva, at his dying stage, he advised that woman's shyness is the valve to control. If their shyness is broken, then it will create disaster. Puṁścalī. This is the psychology. So things are changing nowadays everywhere, not only in India, in other countries also. But this is the psychology. So all these examples are given. Why? Just to control the mind. In Hindi there is a proverb that money and wife you should always keep in control. There are so many examples.

So the real purpose is... We are not talking of the sociology or politics. The example is given that we should not give freedom to the mind. That is the real purpose. If you give freedom to the mind, then mind will create so many ideas. I have practically seen in our society. As soon as one is in charge, immediately he invents something new: "This should be broken, and this should be done." Then another man comes. He breaks the same thing again. There are practical experience I have got. Unless there is control over the mind, it will dictate something new: "Do it like this." There was a Bengali poet. He also sung a song, ek ta nūtana kichu koro: "Do something new." This is mind's business. He is not satisfied with the old things. Nūtana kichu koro. So that's a very big song. Why change? The whole material world is like that. Ei nūtana kichu koro: "Do something new," and be implicated. We are not satisfied with old things. "Old order changes, yields to..." "Old order...," there is an English proverb like that, "yielding to the new."

*But the Vedic civilization is that "Do not try to invent some order. That will create disturbance. Be satisfied. Whatever you have got by nature's way, be satisfied. Don't spoil your time. Save your time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is Vedic civilization. That is the purpose of life, the valuable life. Bahūnāṁ saṁbhavānte. This life, human form of life, we have got bahu saṁbhavānte, after many, many years in the evolutionary process. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-sāṅkhyakāḥ. We are coming, one after another, from the lowest low-grade life in the water. Then plants, creepers, trees, then insect, then flies. In this way-then birds, then beasts-in this way, millions and millions years after, we have got this human form of life, especially those who are civilized. There are 400,000's forms of human life also*-not all the same: the uncivilized and civilized, the black and white, and so many different grades of men. They have different intelligence. In this way, one who has taken birth in India, he is the most fortunate. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

*bhārata*-bhumite manuṣya janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



So unfortunately we are forgetting our culture; *otherwise we have got a great mission, Indians, for the others, para*-upakāra. They require the information of this Vedic knowledge, and they are now getting. They are appreciating. Therefore there is movement against it, but it is actual civilization. The Vedic culture is actual civilization, varṇāśrama-dharma. That is the beginning of civilization. Without Vedic culture and varṇāśrama-dharma it is animal civilization. When Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking, Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the beginning of life?" Sādhya-sādhana."What is the object, objective of the ultimate goal of life, and how that objective of life is attained?" Sādhya-sādhyana. Sādhya means the objective thing, and sādhana means the process. Sādhya-sādhana. So Rāmānanda Rāya, he said, varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama. That is the beginning of life. Because varṇāśrama means... The life is... Human life is meant for understanding the Supreme Lord. That is human life. The cats' and dogs' life is not meant for understanding God; it is not possible either. They cannot understand. But the evolutionary process, when you come to the civilized form of life, especially the Vedic culture...



*There are many living entities. Out of them, some of them are cala, and some of them are acala. Cala means moving. Just like tree is not moving, but it is life. But a small insect, it is moving. Sthāvara jaṅgama, they are called in technical words. Sthāvara means standing in one place, and the vegetables, trees, plants, they are more condemned. They cannot move even. They'll have to stand up in a place for thousands of years. There is no possibility even to move. If there is storm, scorching heat, pinching cold, they cannot move. They'll have to suffer. So it is very condemned life to become tree and plant, sthāvara. Then jaṅgama. The jaṅgama means moving. So there are many varieties of moving animals. The insects, the birds, the beast, then human form. So how out of the human moving forms, the civilized form... Out of the civilized form, those who are in Vedic culture... Out of the Vedic culture, many are addicted to the fruitive activities, ritualistic ceremony, how to go to the heavenly planet, how to become members of rich family. They are working very hard, karmi. So out of many millions of karmīs, one jñānī... Jñānī means who understands, "What is the use of this karma, fruitive activities?" So out of many jñānīs, one is mukta, liberated. And out of many millions of mukta-koṭiṣv api mahā-mune*-one is a bhakta. This is the gradual development.

*So we should be very careful. We have got this opportunity of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We should not waste a single moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Avyartha*-kālatvam [Cc. Madhya 23.18-19]. That is advised by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Every moment we shall count, "Whether I have wasted it or utilized it?" This is life.

Thank you very much. (end)



761127SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.5

-

Vṛndāvana, November 27, 1976



Pradyumna: "The mind is the root cause of lust, anger, pride, greed, lamentation, illusion and fear. Combined, these constitute bondage to fruitive activity. What learned man would put faith in the mind?"



Prabhupāda:



kāmo manyur mado lobhaḥ

*śoka*-moha-bhayādayaḥ

*karma*-bandhaś ca yan-mūlaḥ

svīkuryāt ko nu tad budhaḥ

[SB 5.6.5]



*So budha means one who is aware of everything, jñānī. Budhā bhāva*-samanvitaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. Such budha, intelligent person, will not accept these base qualities. Kāma, manyur means greediness, lusty; *madaḥ*-madness; *lobha... Mada, mada? Kāmo manyur mada. What is mada? Madness? Mada*-pride, yes. Kāmo manyur mado lobhaḥ-greediness; *śoka*-lamentation; *moha*-illusion; *bhaya... Bhaya means when we are too much materially absorbed then there is bhaya. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. So long we are interested in bodily concept of life, these things are manifested. And when we are spiritually identified, so there is no more kāma-lobha-bhaya-śoka-bhayādayaḥ. Śoka-moha-bhaya apahaḥ. Spiritual means, advanced means śoka moha bhaya, these things are not existing. These are the symptoms of karma-bandha. But if we devote ourselves in the bhakti-yoga, in the service of the Lord, then the face of these things will change. The face of these things will change.



*Kāma, kṛṣṇa*-kāma-karmārpaṇe. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has advised that kāma and the desire will be transformed how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇārthe akhila-ceṣṭa, the same thing. Kāma means fruitive activities for sense gratification, but this kāma can be utilized in Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like we have constructed this temple with the enthusiasm, there must be a very nice temple for Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. The same desire, as somebody is willing that "I must have a very big skyscraper building," so the same desire. People may ask, "What is the difference between these two desires? Somebody is desiring to possess a very big house and another body is desiring to possess a very nice temple, expensive temple. So what is the difference?" Difference is one is kāma and the other is prema. That is difference. As soon as we desire, that is natural. We cannot be desireless. That is not possible. People say that you become desireless. That is not possible. I am living being. How I can be desireless? No. That is very difficult task. If we want to become desireless, that is not possible. Kleśo adhikāras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Desireless means your desires are suppressed by forced, "I shall not desire." That is not possible. You have got eyes, and if you want to suppress your eyesight, "I shall not see anything," is that possible? That is not possible. Yes, I have got my eyes, but I want to see Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. That is wanted. That is wanted. Not that "No, I shall not see." Even meditation, so-called meditation, that is also seeing. Real meditation, seeing within. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasaḥ paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. Paśyanti, this word is used. Paśyanti means sees, but within, not without. Meditation means seeing within. Not that without seeing. Concentrating the mind to see the form of Lord Viṣṇu, that is real meditation. And without seeing Lord Viṣṇu, that is (indistinct). If you want to fix up my mind into nothing, they say nothingness, that is not possible.

*So you cannot be desireless. Desireless means kāma. You cannot be. But desire has to be purified. That is wanted. Kāma, kāma kṛṣṇa*-karmātmane. Kāma should be utilized. The same desire should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. Then it is bhakti. Then it is prema. We sometimes mistake the activities of gopīs, it appears just like lusty affairs, but actually that is not. Gopīs used to dress themselves very nicely, attractively, so that Kṛṣṇa may be very pleased. That was gopīs' desire. Just like in the material world the woman dresses very nicely so that a man may be attracted upon her, and then both of them will fulfill their sex desire or sense gratification. That is material world. But in the spiritual world it appears that gopīs are dressed very nicely not for the purpose of her own satisfaction. They want to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that "If I dress nicely, Kṛṣṇa will be pleased." So that is prema. And as soon as... In the material nobody wants to please anyone. He wants to please himself, his senses. That is kāma. We should understand what is kāma and what is prema.

*So kāma, and the proof is because in the material world everyone wants to fulfill his own desire, therefore when the desire is not fulfilled he becomes angry, manyu. The next stage is manyu. Manyu means anger. And mada, then pride, then greediness, then śoka. These are different stages. Lamentation, bhaya. So many things. What is the cause? The root cause is karma*-bandha. Because I am bound up by the resultant action of my past karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa yantra-dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. By the superior arrangement, according to my karma I get a body with varieties of kāma, krodha, moha, like that. Kāma, because somebody has got the body of a human being, his kāma, desires, are different from the hogs and pigs because he has got a different body. He has got also kāma, and the human body, he has human being, he has got also kāma. But one is desiring to have a very palatable dish, and the other is desiring stool. The different..., according to the bodies the desires are (indistinct)-less. So conclusion is that when you get your spiritual body then the desire will be different. And that is prema. Desires are going on. Now the desires are designated. Designated. Because one has got a particular type of body, his desires are different from another because another person, he has got a particular type of body. But in the spiritual world, because there is no material body, only desire is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kāma kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. This is spiritual. Spiritual means when the center is Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. Otherwise it is material. That is material means to forget Kṛṣṇa and satisfy His own senses. That is material. Just like a flower, a nice flower. One is accepting this flower for satisfying his smelling power and another is accepting the same flower with the desire that "Here is a nice flower. Let me offer it to Kṛṣṇa." So according to different mentality. The Kṛṣṇa, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravindayor [SB 9.4.18], if we simply engage our mind to Kṛṣṇa, naturally the flower will be offered to Kṛṣṇa.

*In this way if we live, bhakti-yoga, then there is no such thing as to give up. Prapañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. To give up, renounce... Renounce means renounce the mentality of sense gratification. That is renounce. Otherwise nothing can be renounced. Everything can be properly utilized. Kāma kṛṣṇa karmārpaṇe krodha bhakta-dveśi-jane. This manyu-manyu means krodha, anger*-it can be also utilized. Bhakti-dveśi-jane, those who are envious of devotees... Just like they are making propaganda in Europe and America that "Why this Kṛṣṇa conscious persons should be allowed?" So bhakti-dveśi. So one should utilize his krodha, anger, upon these persons. That is wanted. Kāma kṛṣṇa karmārpaṇe krodha bhakta-dveśi-jane. And moha, without seeing a devotee, without seeing Kṛṣṇa... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaching, yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛsāyitaṁ śūnyāyitaṁ jagat-sarvam. This is illusion. Śūnyāyitam. Jagat is not śūnyaṁ. Just like we have got practical experience. If somebody's beloved has died, he sees everything zero. Nothing is appealing to him. Similarly, if we have developed our love for Kṛṣṇa and if we do not see Kṛṣṇa, that is śūnyāyitaṁ jagat-sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. But a devotee and ordinary person, if ordinary person wants to see something and if he cannot see, he becomes angry because that is kāma. But a devotee, he says that "Kṛṣṇa, although the whole world is vacant because I cannot see You, still I cannot change my mind to love You." That is... One side śūnyāyitaṁ jagat-sarvam, the other side, āśliṣya vā pādaratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanam. "You break my heart by not allowing me to see You, still You are my beloved, worshipable Lord." That is the difference. There is no manyu, no disappointment. Disappointment is there, but so much disappointed that broken heart, still he wants to love Kṛṣṇa. That is pure love. Not that "I have been disappointed, my heart is broken; therefore I give up Kṛṣṇa." No. Still Kṛṣṇa is good. That is pure love.

*So we have to learn in that way. Kāma kṛṣṇa. Otherwise karma*-bandhana. Yajñārthe karmaṇe anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Whatever you do, if it is for Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated. Otherwise karma-bandha, you are bound up by the laws of nature, karma-bandha. So karma-bandha yān mūlaḥ. If we act for our sense gratification, then this kāma-krodha is bondage. And if we don't accept this karma-bandha, then you are liberated. Very easy thing. So we have to purify our desires. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When we give up this conception of life that "I am Indian," "I am Christian," 'I am Hindu," "I am this and that," these are upādhis. So while serving Kṛṣṇa, don't come back to the upādhi platform, that "We are Indians and they are Europeans, so they are taking more advantage and we are not given advantage," or visa versa. This means coming back to the upādhi. That is not the stage of devotion. We have to become free from the upādhi. "I am neither Indian nor American. I am eternally Kṛṣṇa's servant." That's all. "Whatever Kṛṣṇa orders, in whichever position he keeps me, I am his eternal servant." This is upādhi-mukta-nirmalam, pure stage.

*Now, when we are in the pure stage, the same kāma, the same manyu, the same mado lobhaḥ śoka, śoka, lamentation... Just like the gopīs, they were lamenting, "Kṛṣṇa is going to Mathurā," and He has gone there, the lamentation is there. This lamentation and our lamentation not the same. Therefore in the beginning, the neophyte devotees they should not try to understand the dealings of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa. They should not try to understand. Unless one is free from the material concept, sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That means we have to execute devotional service in the regulative principle. "I cannot follow the regulative principle and I am trying to understand Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa prema," this is rascaldom. This is rascaldom. Only rascals will do that. He does not see his position, that "What is my position? I am still full of lusty desires. My mind is still disturbed by seeing a nice woman or nice man, and I am discussing Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa?" This is nonsense. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, rūpa-raghunātha pade haibe ākuti kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala-pīriti. Unless you are expert in devotional service, by practical application of the instruction of Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu... Rūpa-raghunātha pade haibe ākuti. Then if we are qualified, then some day we may be able to understand what is yugala-pīriti, love between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī. Not so sudden. That is sahajiyā. Not so sudden. We should not try to do that. First of all I must see how much I have become sarvopādhi vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], how much I am free from the designational position. Then we shall be able. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikrṭi ahlādinī śakti asmād.

*The Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa-praṇaya, loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, this is not ordinary thing. When you worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, we are not fit for that... [break] ...we shall think ourself as servant of Kṛṣṇa, eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, under the guidance, ādau gurvāśrayam. So if we want to do something, we must inquire from guru, sad dharma (indistinct). We must follow. We should not manufacture things, that "This way I shall be able to satisfy Kṛṣṇa." No. Sādhu (indistinct). If I discuss about Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā in my neophyte stage, Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. No. You must first of all purify yourself by the regulative principle. And when you are completely free, then from the material conception, then you understand what is Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa līlā.

Thank you very much. (end)



761128SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.6

-

Vṛndāvana, November 28, 1976



Pradyumna: "Lord Ṛṣabhadeva was the head of all kings and emperors within this universe, but assuming the dress and language of an avadhūta, He acted as if dull and materially bound. Consequently, no one could observe His divine opulence. He adopted this behavior just to teach yogis how to give up the body. Nonetheless, He maintained His original position as a plenary expansion of Lord Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Remaining always in that state, He gave up His pastimes as Lord Ṛṣabhadeva within the material world. If, following in the footsteps of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva, one can give up his subtle body, there is no chance that one will accept a material body again."



Prabhupāda:



*Athaivam akhila*-loka-pāla-lalāmo 'pi vilakṣaṇair jaḍavad avadhūta-veṣa.

[SB 5.6.6]



*So this is also opulence of Kṛṣṇa. Jaḍavad avadhūta*-veṣa. Although He is the proprietor, sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29], still, this is another opulence, how to become renounced. This is another opulence. It is as good as the other opulences. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya. All the op..., means property, money, wealth-these are aiśvarya. And He says, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Not only in one planet but all the universes, all the planets within the universes, they are all the properties of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. Strength... What is that? Eh?



*Indian man: Dharmasya hi... Jñāna*-vairāgya...



*Prabhupāda: Ah. So yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ jñāna*-vairāgya. This is vairāgya. Not that Kṛṣṇa is simply enjoying sixteen thousand palaces, sixteen thousand queens, and millions of descendants, yadu-vaṁśa. This is another side, and this is another side, vairāgya. Jñāna-vairāgya. Jñāna. We can understand a little piece of His contribution of jñāna, Bhagavad-gītā. That is a little piece of His stock of knowledge. Five thousand years He spoke, and still it is being continued, not only in India, but also all over the world. This is jñāna. So anyway-strength. When He was seven years old, Kṛṣṇa, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Jñāna-vairāgya, everything complete. That is God. Nothing less. Not that, that "I am rich man, but I cannot lie down on the street." Not that kind of vairāgya. He is complete, completely different from a rich person. Akhila-loka-pāla. He is the controller of the whole universe; still, you see His vairāgya.



*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means vairāgya*-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā nija bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā. We should under... That is teaching by His personal behavior. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He also taught us vairāgya-vidyā. He... When He was a gṛhastha, He was the most learned scholar in Navadvīpa. When He was sixteen years old He defeated a very great learned scholar, Keśava Kāśmīrī. He was requested by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to make some stanzas praying the Ganges. So he immediately made one hundred ślokas. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at that time sixteen years old, He was a student of grammar. So He pointed out on the sixty-fourth śloka so many defects. He was surprised that "This boy is a student of grammar, and He has picked up so many mistakes in my composition." One of the prominent mistake was bhavānī-bhartā. Bhavānī-bhartā. Bhavānī means the wife of Bhava, Lord Śiva. And He pointed out, "Who can be bhartā, he, her, again?" So both of them were paṇḍita, yes. And there were so many mistakes He pointed out. So that was His learning. He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. Of course, brāhmaṇas were all called paṇḍita. Still in India that is the practice. The brāhmaṇas are addressed as "paṇḍitjī" because brāhmaṇa cannot be mūrkha. That is possible. Then he's not a brāhmaṇa. He must be a scholar. At least he must know what is the ultimate goal of knowledge.

*So in the Kali*-yuga we do not expect everyone to be very great scholar. That is not possible. But if he knows what is the aim of education, what is the objective of education, then he is also scholar. Just like our Gaura-Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja. He was illiterate. He could not sign his name even. But he became the spiritual master of the best scholar of his time, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. So it is not the education, ABCD. In Bengal we say anguam(?). No. What is the purport of education? The purport of education is spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself: vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. If one understands Kṛṣṇa and takes to the shelter of His lotus feet, he is also the biggest scholar.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata antarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate...

sa me yuktatamo...

[Bg. 6.47]



So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. By His practical life, when Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī criticized Him that "You are a sannyāsī, and You do not read Vedānta and You simply chant and dance..." This was the question. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "My Guru Mahārāja found Me a great fool. Therefore he advised Me that 'You have no jurisdiction in studying *Vedas* because you are not a scholar. You are not a very highly learned. You are a mūrkha.' " Guru more mūrkha dekhi karilā śāsana [Cc. Ādi 7.71].



*So who will read Vedānta at the present moment? There is no education. But if we follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that Vedānta philosophy is not for ordinary person, simply if we chant*-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam-then you get the same result. What we get by studying Vedānta and Vedic literature, if we understand that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], and we sacrifice everything for achieving the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, then our Vedānta study is complete. That is the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*And pratically we see in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All you are young Westerners. You never study Vedānta, but you can surprise many so*-called Vedāntists how to understand Kṛṣṇa. How it has become possible? Simply by your firm faith in your spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. This is the Vedic process. If we have got firm faith in guru and firm faith in Kṛṣṇa-guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]-then you get the seedling of bhakti-latā. Some way or other, we have to come to this bhakti-latā, increasing or nourishing the bhakti creeper. That will be effective.



*So those who are jñānīs, very learned scholar, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedeṣu durlabhaṁ. It is not by academic education one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3]. So many mistakes they commit. They say it is kalpana(?), so many things. But here Kṛṣṇa as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa as Ṛṣabhadeva, Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa Himself, They are teaching us how to become pure devotee, because sva kalevaraṁ jihāsur ātmanaḥ. Before leaving your, this body, you must be self*-realized. That is the aim of life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. We have got this life, human form of life, and how to utilize this human form of life? How to achieve the vairāgya-vidyā? This is vairāgya-vidyā, no more interest in material things. That is vairāgya-vidyā. Even to the body. That is... Ṛṣabhadeva is teaching us. This is vairāgya-vidyā. Bhakti-yoga means vairāgya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also has spoken the same thing, niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad bhajanonmukhasya. Niṣkiñcanasya. If you actually want to become a pure devotee, then you have to make this material way of life completely zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Then it will be possible. If you have still a pinch of attraction for material life, then it will be stopped, your promotion to the other, spiritual world. Simply attachment to Kṛṣṇa, that will make you advanced. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā deham [Bg. 4.9]. He can, after giving up this body... Mām eti. He does not accept any more the material body. He is immediately promoted to the spiritual world and Goloka Vṛndāvana, Vaikuṇṭha. There are many millions of Vaikuṇṭha planets in the spiritual world.

*So if we become vairagī... Vairagī means no attachment for this material world. How to become completely free from all our attachment of this material world, that is being exemplified by Ṛṣabhadeva. He doesn't take care even of the body. Although He is Vaikuṇṭha*-puruṣa... How comfortably He lives in Vaikuṇṭha-loka. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ [Bs. 5.29]. We are expecting, "One woman or wife will look after my comforts," but there Kṛṣṇa is taken care of by hundreds and thousands of women. And who are they? Lakṣmī. They're all goddess of fortune, not ordinary women. Lakṣmī has two features: māyā and the goddess of fortune, the same Lakṣmī according to position. Just like a government has got two departments: criminal department and civil department. So the government is the same, but there are two departments. This māyā is criminal department, and Vaikuṇṭha is civil department. Vaikuṇṭha means there is no anxiety, and māyā means always anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Because we accepted the jurisdiction of māyā, they are asad-grahāt. Asato mā sad gamaḥ. Therefore the Vedic instruction is, "Don't remain in this asat." Oṁ tat sat. "Go to the real life." Jyotir gama. "Don't remain in the darkness." This is Vedic instruction.

So anyone who has accepted this material world as very comfortable... It is not comfortable; *it is simply suffering. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. And still, if we want to be happy in this material world, bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. These fools, they are trying to be happy within this material world. Material means external energy. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā [SB 7.5.31]. This is durāśayā, the hope which will never be fulfilled. But this we do not... Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. So unless there is vairāgya, there is no question of happiness. But we cannot attain vairāgya immediately; *therefore the vidhi*-mārga, vidhi-mārga-bhakti, to rise early in the morning, to attend maṅgala ārati, to offer Deity flowers, fruits, and in this way we shall be engaged twenty-four hours. Then vairāgya-vidyā will gradually develop. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje [SB 1.7.6]. Then the anartha... This material life is simply anartha, has no meaning, because we are creating another life. Without any spiritual knowledge, if we simply give ourself to the action and reaction of material nature, then we are making progress on the path of mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. And if we attain Kṛṣṇa, then mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti [Bg. 8.15]. The two ways.

*So our request is that you have taken to this vairāgya*-vidyā. So vairāgya-vidyā, we do not say that you starve, don't eat anything, don't sleep at all. No. It should be regulated. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārtham upayuñjataḥ. Don't be attached to eating, sleeping. That is not good. But you must eat, you must sleep as little as possible, and try to conquer over it. My mind dictating, "Sleep seventeen hours." No. That is tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Why shall you sleep more than four hours or five hours, or utmost six hours? That's all, not more than that. That is vairāgya-vidyā. We have to learn it. That is devotional service. Vairāgya-vidyā nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. He's teaching. Kṛṣṇa Himself is teaching. Here you see. Ṛṣabhadeva is Kṛṣṇa. Vairāgyā-vidyā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He taught vairāgya-vidyā. Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ dharmiṣṭha ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam, māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvad vande mahā-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam [SB 11.5.34].

*So opulence, even Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Kṛṣṇa appeared in a kṣatriya family, very opulent. Lord Rāmacandra appeared in a kṣatriya family, kingdom, opulence. He also accepted vairāgya*-vidyā. Father requested, "My dear son, Your mother likes that You should go to the forest." Immediately accept, "Yes." This śloka is applicable to Lord Rāmacandra. Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm [SB 11.5.34]. He was going to be coronated next day king, but immediately, by the order of His father, He left everything. Vairāgya... Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rāj... Is there any instance throughout the history of the whole world that a prince was going to be king tomorrow and on the order of father he left everything? This is vairāgya-vidyā. This is called vairāgya-vidyā. Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ dharmiṣṭha ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam [SB 11.5.34]. Ārya-vacasā. Elderly person is called ārya. Respectful person is called. Ārya means one who is advanced. Ārya does not mean meat-eaters, Āryan family. No. Āryan means one who is advanced in civilization, they are called Āryan, not these fool and rascals, Āryan. No. Ārya-vacasā. By a superior person... His father, Mahārāja Dāsaratha, said-immediately. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also...

*This śloka can be applicable to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life. He also became a sannyāsī, ārya*-vacasā. One brāhmaṇa cursed him. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to receive some blessings from the brāhmaṇas, when He was boy He was voluntarily trying to give some service to the brāhmaṇas who were engaged in bathing in the Ganges. He'll clear the place because the brāhmaṇa, after taking bath in the Ganges, would sit down, would chant mantra. So He'll cleanse and He'll wash the cloth, and in... Voluntarily He was doing that, service. So one brāhmaṇa blessed Him, "My dear boy, You'll be very happy in your family life. You'll have good wife, very opulent position." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu was blocking the ears. The brāhmaṇa said, "What is this?" "No, this is not blessing, sir." "Oh, it is not blessing? Then You'll never be happy in Your family life." "Yes, this is the..." (laughter) "This is all right." So therefore He took sannyāsa. Arya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam. Similarly, Lord Rāmacandra, ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam. These are the characteristic of the Personality of Godhead. Try to follow Them, not imitate, but follow them.

Thank you. (end)



761129SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.7

-

Vṛndāvana, November 29, 1976



Pradyumna: "Actually Lord Ṛṣabhadeva had no material body, but due to yogamāyā, He considered His body material, and therefore, because He played like an ordinary human being, He gave up the mentality of identifying with it. Following this principle, He began to wander all over the world. While traveling, He came to the province of Karṇāṭa in South India and passed through Koṇka, Veṅka and Kuṭaka. He had no plan to travel this way, but He arrived near Kuṭakācala and entered a forest there. He placed stones within His mouth and began to wander through the forest, naked and with His hair disheveled like a madman."



Prabhupāda:



*Tasya ha vā evaṁ mukta*-liṅgasya bhagavata ṛṣabhasya.

[SB 5.6.7]



*Bhagavān, in His any form, He is mukta*-liṅga. As we have got liṅga, deha, liṅga, this material body, and we have got our spiritual body also... The spiritual body is covered by the material coating. This is not our actual body. But in the case of Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no such difference. Deha, dehī. As we have got difference... Dehino 'smin yathā deha. Deha and dehī. Dehī means the owner of the body. Just like I say, "It is my body." I don't say, "It is I body." Everyone has got this experience. Even a child, ask him, pointing out to the finger. He will say, "It is my finger." Nobody says, "I finger," because there is difference between the body and the spirit soul. This is to be understood.



Spiritual education means, beginning is, to understand that "I am not this body." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am beyond this body." But in the case of Kṛṣṇa or His different expansion, plenary expansion, there is no such difference, deha dehī.

*prakṛta kariya mane viṣṇu*-kalevara

apārādha nāhi āra iṅhāra upara(?)



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, "Any rascal"*-of course, "rascal" he did not say; *I say*-that "Anyone who considers the body of Kṛṣṇa is prakṛta"-prakṛta means material-"that is the greatest offense." The Māyāvādīs, they say so. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They think that when... "God is impersonal, but when He becomes a person, He accepts the material body." That is wrong. Here it is said that mukta-liṅgasya bhagavata ṛṣabhasya. It is no difference. Even a big scholar, while writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], he warns the reader, "It is not to the person. The soul or the spirit within the person." Means he is thinking Kṛṣṇa as ordinary person, and he's a big scholar. This is going on.



*Kṛṣṇa condemns, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Anyone who thinks that Kṛṣṇa has a different soul... No. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's so*-called soul, the same thing. There is no difference. That is the... Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can lift, as a seven-years-old boy, Govardhana Hill? Is it possible by this material body? No. That is not possible. This is common sense. But they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, mūḍhā. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. They call, "It is mythology. Mythology. Everything mythology." First of all they cannot find out what is God, and when God comes, shows His opulences, these rascals say, "It is mythology." What God will do? He comes before you. He displays His mighty opulences. He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand form. "Mythology." So what can I do? What Kṛṣṇa can do? Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. Śāstra says He has got ananta-rūpam, but still one. There is no difference. They cannot understand the Absolute Truth, and they like to comment upon it foolishly.

*Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī says that don't hear anything from the Māyāvādī, avaiṣṇava. Māyāvādī means avaiṣṇava. Sanātana Gosvāmī says that śravaṇaṁ na kartavyaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam. Śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam: "Those who are not Vaiṣṇavas, from them do not hear the transcendental topics." Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-katham, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. He has warned, "Don't hear. Who is not a Vaiṣṇava, don't hear from him at least Gītā, Bhāgavatam. Or any śāstra, don't hear," because they do not know what is actually the position. Kṛṣṇa also says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samā... [Bg. 7.25]. Here it is said, yogamāyā-vāsanayā. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. These blunt senses, they cannot appreciate what is Kṛṣṇa. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. He's covered. To the nondevotees, He is covered. To the devotees-sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva*-He reveals: "Yes, I am here like this." So do not think... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, prakṛta kariya mane viṣṇu kalevara, aparādha nāhi āra iṅhāra upara(?). So long we are aparādhī, offender, there is no possibility of understanding Kṛṣṇa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore has warned, that "Don't hear about Kṛṣṇa or any transcendental subject matter from a Māyāvādī." Māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. If you hear from a Māyāvādī, then your advancement in devotional service is finished. Haya sarva-nāśa. You should be very, very careful.

*avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ

*pūtaṁ hari*-kathāmṛtam

śravaṇaṁ na kartavyaṁ

*sarpocchiṣṭa*-payo yathā



If one is not Vaiṣṇava, don't be liberal, that "Oh, what is the wrong? He is talking *Bhāgavatam*." But he does not know who can speak *Bhāgavatam*. Here in Vṛndāvana there is a big Māyāvādī sannyāsī. He speaks on *Bhāgavatam* and speaks all nonsense, but there is a big crowd go to hear him. Yes.



*So Māyāvādīs are attractive. They are very educated. They can put things in jugglery of words. That capacity they have got. So people become amazed, and almost everyone... So therefore they are not very much pleased with this movement, that "Kṛṣṇa is God." We are preaching, and all full of Māyāvādīs, they are thinking, "What this nonsense is doing? Kṛṣṇa..." They think Kṛṣṇa is māyā. Viṣṇu*-kalevara māyā. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Repeatedly He is saying what He is, and He is personally present and all the ācāryas confirming. Even Śaṅkarācārya, he also says sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. Don't bring Nārāyaṇa in this material world. So... Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha mate. "You rascal, you have studied so much grammar. Now give up all this. Bhaja govindam, govinda bhaja." Nahi nahi rakṣati dukṛn-karaṇe: "Your grammatical knowledge, du-pratyaya, kṛn-pratyaya, liṅ-pratyaya, din-pratyaya, oh, this will not do." Bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate, prāpte sannihite karaṇa, hita kāla-marane: "This is... Jugglery of words will not save you. This is my final instruction." Māyāvādam asac-chastraṁ pracchanaṁ bauddham ucyate. Kalau brahma-mūrtinā. He has some business to do that, but actually, we should not hear about..., especially Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya avoided to write any comments on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He has written comments on Bhagavad-gītā, but he has completely avoided to write any comment on Bhāgavata because he knew that "I am doing the wrong thing. How can I touch Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?" Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇaṁ yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. He has purposefully avoided. And the ācārya, other ācāryas like Śrī Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī and up to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, everyone has accepted, Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam.

*Amalam means there is no material contamination, pure description. Therefore Vyāsadeva, from the very beginning he says that dharmaḥ projjhita*-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām: [SB 1.1.2] "This book is not meant for the person who is envious." Envious... You begin enviousness from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. The envious person will say, "Oh, this is too much. Why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa? I am also Kṛṣṇa. I am also God. This is too much." This is rascaldom. The actual fact is that we are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, we have forgotten it, and therefore we have become servant of māyā. We are suffering, and Kṛṣṇa, out of His kindness, He comes to prove that the living entities are eternal servant and He is the eternal master. Still, because they are contaminated, contaminated by the yogamāyā, contaminated by māyā, mahāmāyā... Mahāmāyā. Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidrā-rūpeṇa saṁśritā(?). Mahāmāyā. This material energy is described in the Chandi, yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidrā-rūpeṇa saṁśritā(?). (S)he's keeping everyone in sleeping, more dozes. Utthiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta varān nibodhata. And therefore Veda says that "Don't sleep. Get up, rascal. Get up. This is the opportunity." But no. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. Yogamāyā is keeping him in sleeping condition. Nidrālasya. So we should be very careful. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also: jīv jago jīv jago gauracandra bole. The Gauracandra's mission is to awaken the conditioned soul. Jīv jago jīv jago gauracandra... Kota nidrā yāo māyā-piśācīra kole. How long we shall sleep? We are thinking that "I am sleeping at the lap of my beloved mother." Don't do this. Get up. The Vedic vācana: utthiṣṭhata jagrāta prāpta varān nibodhata. We should be very careful that we have got this body, human form of body, and we should not sleep. Sleeping means ignorance. Māyā andha-kara. Just like at night we sleep because it is darkness. But during daytime we do not sleep, generally. That is the way.

*So we must come to the light and may not sleep and lose the chance of human form of body. Here the instruction is that Kṛṣṇa, or Ṛṣabhadeva... Ṛṣabhadeva is bhagavata ṛṣabha*-devasya, rṣabhasya. Imāṁ jagatīm abhimāna, abhimāna ābhāsena. Abhimāna ābhāsena. He looks like ordinary human being, but you should be careful. No. He is not ordinary human being. Then... Therefore we must know. These are the knowledge given by... And if we understand it perfectly... Understanding means when we are uncontaminated, we can understand. So long we are contaminated-daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]-then you cannot. But you can get out of the clutches of this māyā. Then you can understand. How? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Just surrender. Surrender means to surrender... Mayy āsakta manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. This is surrender. Mad-āśrayaḥ. Take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, we cannot take shelter directly, mad-āśrayaḥ. But you can take shelter of a person who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa. If one is surcharged with electricity, if you touch him, then you will be also electrified. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo [Bg. 4.2]. Kṛṣṇa, five thousand years ago He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. How we can hear Him? Yes, you can hear Him by paramparā system. Kṛṣṇa says repeatedly that "I am this, I am this," and Arjuna understands Him, "Yes, You are this." Sarvam etān ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava. Then he understands. He is directly understanding. And you take the version of Arjuna. Arjuna says, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12]. Why you, rascal, interpret in a different way, rascal? What right you have got? "My Kṛṣṇa is like that. My Kṛṣṇa..." What right you hve got? Kṛṣṇa says like this; one who listen to Kṛṣṇa about Kṛṣṇa, he says like that. You rascal, why do you interpret in a different way? This is going on.

*So be careful of these rascals. Māyāvādī*-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva nāśa [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. Then you'll never be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. We should take the instruction of the śāstra that Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's soul, there are... Ekam evādvitiyaḥ. He is one, without any second. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśi..., niṣevataḥ syāt īśad apetasya. Īśad apetasya. So the more we forget Kṛṣṇa, then we are in the material stage. Material stage means bhayam, always fearful. "Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa as human being, as a person? Oh, it is... It is not. How He can be a person? How a person can produce such a vast sky?" He says, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva: [Bg. 7.4] "Yes, I have produced the sky." But these rascals will not believe how a person can do it. They'll comment in their own way. So avoid this.

Here Ṛṣabhadeva says about the Personality of Godhead. Accept them; believe them; take it. You understand or not understand, take it for granted. Then you will be able to make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



761130SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.8

-

Vṛndāvana, November 30, 1976



Pradyumna: "While He was wandering about, a wild forest fire began. This fire was caused by the friction of bamboos, which were being blown by the wind. In that fire, the entire forest near Kuṭakācala and the body of Lord Ṛṣabhādeva were burned to ashes."



Prabhupāda:



*atha samīra*-vega-vidhūta-veṇu-vikarṣaṇa-jāta dāvānalas tad

vanam ālelihānaḥ saha tena dadāha

[SB 5.6.8]



*So dāvānala. We have got some description of dāvānala in our daily prayer, saṁsāra dāvānala*-līḍha-loka **. The dāvānala is explained here, what is that dāvānala. Nobody goes to set anala, fire, in the forest. I saw dāvānala first in my experience at Nainital Station. Very high hill, and there was fire, blazing fire upon the hill. Nobody went there to set fire, but there was fire. So how that fire takes place, that is explained here, samīra-vega-vidhūta-veṇu-vikarṣaṇam. In the big jungles there are bamboo trees, and they are very densely situated. When there is wind, very forceful, the friction causes fire. So similarly, this material world is compared with this dāvānala. Saṁsāra dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Nobody wants that there will be trouble. In your country there is another kind of fire that is not dāvānala. In the city there is electric anala. And especially in New York, you know, twenty-four hours the fire brigade is working, "dung dung dung dung dung dung dung." Nobody wanted, but there is fire, just to prove that you people, you have avoided jungle life but you cannot avoid dāvānala. This is the proof. You can make arrangement, very large arrangement for living comfortably, but you cannot escape dāvānala. That is not possible.



*Therefore saṁsāra dāvānala*-līḍha-loka **. The whole material world is blazing fire. Saṁsāra dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. Now, this dāvānala... Just like in the forest, you cannot send your fire brigade. That is not possible. Neither you can go there to help the animals for extinguishing the fire by bucketful of waters. That is also not possible. Helpless. Similarly, this saṁsāra dāvānala, you cannot extinguish it. So how it will be extinguished? Saṁsāra dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. You have to beg for the mercy of Kṛṣṇa; *then this blazing fire can be extinguished, not by your arrangement. That is not possible. Trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam. That cloud is mercy cloud, not this ordinary cloud. Because dāvānala, the example, personal experience that on the hill of Nainital, some thousand feet high, how this fire will be extinguished? The extinguished it will be when there is cloud on the sky and there is rainfall. Otherwise it is not possible. Similarly, the mercy cloud, kāruṇya, kāruṇa, ghanāghanatvam... So just like ordinary cloud is made possible by evaporating water from the sea, similarly, Kṛṣṇa has the sea of mercy, kāruṇayamaya, kāruṇa-sāgara. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Kāruṇa-sāgara. So as the air evaporate or the heat evaporate from the sea, and the cloud is formed in the sky, similarly, one who has connection or the power to evaporate the mercy sea of Kṛṣṇa, he can extinguish the saṁsāra dāvānala. And that is guru. Guru is the cloud or he is the agent of drying water from the ocean of mercy of Kṛṣṇa and turn it into a mercy cloud and pour water on the saṁsāra dāvānala, and then it is extinguished. Saṁsāra dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya kalyāṇa **.

*Therefore guru must be authorized person, not that bhūmi*-phala-guru(?). No. "I am guru," no. You cannot become guru unless you are agent to draw out the mercy water from the ocean of mercy of Kṛṣṇa. That is guru. And therefore a guru is not an ordinary person. He is the representative, bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, kṛṣṇa se tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāra: "Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, Kṛṣṇa is your property. If you like, you can give." Vedeṣu durlabhaṁ adurlabhaṁ ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. You cannot get Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas. That is not possible. There is Kṛṣṇa in the Vedas, but you cannot pick up. It is not possible. But if you go to the Kṛṣṇa's favorite person... Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Kṛṣṇa's very dear servant, confidential servant, is guru. Nobody can become guru unless he is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa. Na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ. These things are there. Not that by magic one can become guru. No. He must be...

*Saṁsāra dāvānala*-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya kalyāṇa **. Everything is there in the śāstra. We have to see whether a person is actually bona fide agent of Kṛṣṇa. Then we accept him as guru. Otherwise useless waste of time. Gurur apy avaliptasya kāryākāryam ajānataḥ. Guru is very confidential serv... Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Guru is sākṣād hari; *there is no distinction between guru and Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you have got some business with a very big man, when his representative comes, you treat him as the same person because he is authorized agent. That is natural. Just like in India during British days, the governor general, viceroy*-his name was viceroy-so people treated him exactly like the king, viceroy, in place of the king. Although he was a servant, but still, the honor was given to him just like the king. His dress was like king. He was given honor like king. Wherever he would go, he was received like the king. But he is not king. He does not say that "I am king," but his honor is like the king. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair, uktaḥ **. It is said in our all..., that you sing always, vede gaya yahāra carita. You read this verse daily. Guru-mukha..., vede gaya yahāra car... What is that? Eh? Who can sing this?

*Gurudāsa: Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā... Vede gāya jāhāra carito **.



*Prabhupāda: Hm. Vede gāya jāhāra carito. This is according to, strictly according to the version of the Ve... Sākṣād*-dhari... You'll see. This is... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is singing, vede gāya yāhāra carita, and Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, he is also singing, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. So there is no difference. Not that one ācārya will say, "I have seen"-so-called ācārya, not real ācārya-"I have seen in dream." The other day the letter came? He has seen, realized in dream, nitāi-gaura rādhe-śyāma. This is not the process. Process is the śāstra, authority. That is... We have to... Not that jugglery: "I have seen in dream. I have to become guru." No. Whether you are actually in terms of the śāstra? Whether actually you are dear to Kṛṣṇa, you are most confidential servant? That we have to test.



*And what is the confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa? Everything is explained. Kṛṣṇa says, ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad*-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. This paramaṁ guhyam. What is that paramaṁ guhyam? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is paramaṁ guhyam, Kṛṣṇa said. Guhyād guhyatamam. What is that verse? Who can say? Just before saying, sarva-dharmān parityajya, Kṛṣṇa said that "You are My very dear friend. Therefore I am talking to you the most confidential part of knowledge." Is it not? What is that confidential part? Sarva-dharmān parityajya: "Give up everything. Simply surrender unto Me." This is confidential knowledge. Jñāna, karma, yoga, this will not help. It will take some time. You can waste your time in that way, you are at liberty, but real dharma is that "You fully surrender unto Me. Don't talk nonsense." Arjuna was talking so many nonsense things. So Kṛṣṇa ultimately said, "My dear Arjuna, you are My confidential friend. Therefore I am asking you. You do this. Don't waste your time. It will not help." It will help-bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. You can go on with your learning, with your study of Vedas, with your practice of yoga or ritualistic ceremonies, karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, but unless you come to this point-sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]-there is no happiness. That is not possible. This is the confidential...

*So if this confidential knowledge, one who preaches without any compromise, he is the confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. There is no compromise. This is real religion. The Kṛṣṇa says, na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya*-kṛttamaḥ. So this is the person who has received the authority to draw mercy water from the ocean of mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. And what Kṛṣṇa said five thousand years ago, the same thing Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, same thing. There was no change, as there was no change between the statement of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura and Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Sādhu śāstra. As śāstra, there is no change. Not that "Modernize. The śāstra should be changed." No. That is nonsense. That is not śāstra. Śāstra cannot be changed. "Circumstantially, it will be changed, seasonal changes." No. That is not śāstra. Śāstra means it is perpetual. What Kṛṣṇa said five thousand years ago or Kṛṣṇa said some forty millions of years ago to the sun god... Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. He says, "I am talking to you that purātanaṁ yogam." Not that "Because it has passed millions of years and now it is a different time, so I will have to change." No. He said, "I am talking to you that very old system." Is it not? Just see. The śāstra cannot be changed. God's word cannot be changed. Then what will be the difference between God and ourself? He is always perfect. He is always perfect. What He said forty millions of years ago, what He said five thousand years ago, that is also correct up to date. That is śāstra. Not that "So many years have passed and it has become old. Now let us reform it and put it into new way." No. You can put the same thing in a new way, but you cannot change the principle. Sādhu śāstra guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. Śāstra is never changed. And the sādhu... Sādhu means who follows the śāstras. He is sādhu. He also does not change. Sādhu, śāstra. And guru? Guru means who follows the śāstra and sādhu. So there are three, the same. A guru will not change, that "It was spoken five thousand years ago. That is not applicable now. Now I am giving you something new, jugglery." He is useless. Sādhu śāstra guru-vākya tinete kariyā aikya. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma kārataḥ, na siddhim avāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. These things are there.

*So the saṁsāra dāvānala*-līḍha-loka **, these eight stanzas of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura is very important. We sing daily. That's very good. This world is dāvānala. Just like Ṛṣabhadeva, He wanted fire, He did not require any matches. No. Fire can be... By His will there will be fire. Formerly yajña fire was also ignited. What is that wood? Araṇi, yes. Not with matches. So it is ordinary thing, the friction of the bamboo, electricity. It creates electricity by friction. The electricity is also friction. Similarly, fire is created and the dry leaves of bamboo tree, they set in fire. Then, gradually, the whole forest is in blazing fire. And especially the snakes, they are the first sufferers. Because they remain on the ground and there are dry leaves and it takes fire very quickly, so they cannot fly away. Other animals, they can... Nobody can escape, but they can try because they can go fast. But the snake... Similarly, when there is catastrophe in the world, the persons like snakes, cruel, envious, they suffer first like a snake. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said, sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ. There are two envious living entities, very dangerous. What are they? One is snake. And another? The man whose habit is like snake. Without any fault he will bite. Without any fault.

*So just like we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So what is our fault? That we are trying to make men-no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication, and they take it otherwise. They take: "It is very dangerous." Without any fault they are finding fault. This is snake. Sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ. No fault, but still fault-finding and giving us trouble. So you'll find so many persons, without any fault they'll bite. A snake, without any fault... You are passing, and you are taking some fruit from the tree. If there is snake, it will bite*-the krūraḥ. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "There are two, two kinds of krūraḥ, envious living entities. One is the snake; *another is the man*-snake, or a man habituated to the snake quality." So sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ. But Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "This man snake is more dangerous than the animal snake." Sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ. Why? Now, mantrauśādhi-vaṣaḥ sarpaḥ khalaḥ kena nivāryate: "You can subdue the snake by chanting a snake mantra or some drug, jadi-bhuti(?), but this man-snake cannot be subdued." It is very, very dangerous.

*So this is our position, and therefore a preacher devotee is so, I mean to say, favorite to Kṛṣṇa. They have to meet actually dangerous persons, krūraḥ persons. Just see. Jesus Christ, what fault he had? He was preaching about God, and he was crucified. Crucified. That is in your country, a very good example. Simply his fault was he was talking of God, that's all, and he was crucified. So we have to meet. Our Nityānanda Prabhu, He also met that Jagāi*-Mādhāi. Of course, He delivered them. Nityānanda Prabhu is so kind that in spite of being stroken and blood came out from His head, still, He continued to say, "My dear friends, never mind you have injured Me. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So the preaching is so difficult thing. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya kṛttamaḥ. It is not very sitting idly, comfortably, and discuss Vedānta. No. It is not like that. Preaching practically. Practically meeting dangerous position because sympathetic. Saṁsāra dāvānala. The whole world is in blazing fire. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. And that is his qualification. For him there is no difficulty. He's quite all right. He's under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. So he has no danger personally. What danger there is? There is Kṛṣṇa. He is confident, and Kṛṣṇa protects him in all danger. But he is unhappy. He meets Jagāi-Mādhāi class and faces all kinds of danger. Therefore he is the powerful, authorized agent of Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (end)



761228SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.10

-

Bombay, December 28, 1976



Prabhupāda: So, read it?



Hari-śauri: He doesn't have a book.



*Prabhupāda: "People who are lowest among men and bewildered by the illusory energy of the Supreme Lord will give up the original varṇāśrama*-dharma and its rules and regulations." [SB 5.6.10]



*The varṇāśrama*-dharma, that is beginning of human civilization. So in this age they have already given up. There is no varṇāśrama. In India it is simply in name. Actually, there is no varṇāśrama. The, most of the people, they are śūdras. But without varṇāśrama, there cannot be any human civilization, because the aim of human life is to understand God. That is the aim of human life. Unfortunately, they have given up this idea, the aim of life is to understand God. You inquire all over the world, 99.9% will deny God or they have no clear idea of God. Even the so-called religionists, they have also no clear idea. Maybe some power; *no clear idea. Neither they are interested to know. But so far we are concerned, we have got full description of the Lord and His pastimes, His activities. Everything is recorded in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and other Vedic literatures. And God says in the Bhagavad-gītā personally that "I was existing in the past and I shall continue to exist in the future." Similarly, the living entities, they also existed in the past and they will continue to exist in the future individually. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Second Chapter. It is not that we shall be finished in future or there was no existence in the past. No. We are, both of us, we are eternal. God, Kṛṣṇa, and we, living entities, we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Our destruction of this material body does not mean we, as spirit soul, we are destroyed. No.

*To understand this truth, the varṇāśrama system required. Without this varṇāśrama system nobody can understand that we are individual person, we existed in the past, and we shall exist in the future, and we are existing at present. Anyone can understand. There was no change in the past, neither there will be change in the future. Simply we change the dress: tathā dehāntara*-praptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. This is our self-realization. This is called ātma-tattva-jñāna. But people in the present day, they are not interested. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. Yāvan na jijñāsata krūraḥ ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Our activities, they are all defeat. The difference... Just like you are constructing this huge, gorgeous building and another person also constructing another huge skyscraper building. So what is the difference? The difference is here we are doing on the ātma-tattva, and they are doing for being defeated in the material world. That is the difference. You'll find the same activities, dealing with stones and bricks and workers, engineers. But one is based on ātma-tattva and the other is based on without any ātma-tattva. That is the difference.

Sometimes bhakti is observed as similar to the activities of the karmīs, but there is difference. One is bhakti, one is going back to home, back to Godhead; and the other is going forward to the hellish condition of life by the same activities. This is the technique. How it is possible? It is possible. By practical example, it is said in the śāstras... Just like if you take more quantity of milk preparation, you get diarrhea. But the same milk preparation, yogurt, is there. It will stop diarrhea. Both of them are milk preparation. One has created the disease diarrhea, and another is stopping diarrhea. So why? Cikirsitam. One is by medical process and the other is without any medical process. The medical process is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Here the building is being constructed to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. To satisfy Kṛṣṇa. And in other places the building is constructed to satisfy senses. This is the difference, material and spiritual.

*Material means to satisfy one's senses. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītayā āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. Karma means they are working very hard like dogs and hogs, but the purpose is indriya-prīti. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ: they are mad. They should not... And why mad? Because the karma means you are creating another body. And as soon as there is another body, dehāntara-prāptir, so long you have got this material body, you'll suffer. That is the law of nature. Karmānu bandhaḥ. Yāvan prīti mayi deve... tavat karmānu bandhanaḥ. The karmānu-bandha will continue. Therefore in the śāstra it is recommended, yajñārthe karma anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. Don't act anything except for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you do anything for your sense gratification, that means you are being bound up by the laws of karma. Laws of karma, it is very strict according to the modes of activities. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte karma-jān guṇān [Bg. 13.22].

*So we should be very much careful not to be afflicted by the karma. Karmānu bandha. This is very delicate task. Simply... [break] ...but they do not know what is the importance of the varṇāśrama*-dharma. They have broken it. They don't like. They want to say classless society. Classless society cannot be. Even in Russia, the Communist country, they wanted to break down the classless society, but they cannot manage. They have now created a manager class and the worker class. Why manager class? Make it classless. But that is not possible. Therefore in the society there must be managers and the workers. Without this you cannot work, you cannot make, keep any systematic... So managers... The varṇāśrama-dharma: the managers, the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas; *and the workers, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. And less than that, less than the śūdras, the caṇḍālas, they have to be fully controlled, kirata*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā [SB 2.4.18], because they do not know the regulative principles of life. They are called caṇḍālas. So they are described in the śāstra. So the kṣatriyas, they used to keep these caṇḍālas under full control. Otherwise the society would be lost.

Unfortunately, there is no kṣatriya, there is no brāhmaṇa, there is no control of the caṇḍālas, and the whole world is in chaotic condition. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt. Because the caṇḍālas are majority and we are very minority. But still little portion of good thing is still good, and large amount of bad thing, that is bad. That is not good.

*So here it is stated that people who are lowest amongst men and bewildered by the illusory energy... This is bewildered. What is that bewilderment? They are trying to be happy by material adjustment. Just this morning we were discussing of the air crash. It is very good to fly in the air, but at any moment the whole plane may be crashed and all of them finished. So this kind of material adjustment will not help us. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. This is illusory, or māyā sukha. Prahlāda Mahārāja regrets, tato vimukha*-cetasā māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Any moment everything will be crushed. This is called māyā-sukha. And still they are wasting time, that for māyā-sukhāya, illusion. They'll not be happy. Any moment everything can be crushed, and they are busy.

*Therefore this modern civilization is most dangerous civilization, soul*-killing civilization. The human being got the chance of understanding God, but they are being refused by the authorities to understand God. Rather, if somebody wants to understand, he is checked, he is harassed by the name of brain-washing and mind control. This is Kali-yuga.

Thank you very much. (end)



761229SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 5.6.11

-

Bombay, December 29, 1976



Pradyumna:



*te ca hy aravāktanayā nija*-loka-yātrayāndha paramparayāśvastās tamasy andhe svayam eva prapatiṣyanti

[SB 5.6.11]



*"Low*-class people, due to their gross ignorance, introduce a system of religion that deviates from the Vedic principles. Following their own mental concoctions they automatically fall down into the darkest regions of existence."



*Prabhupāda: "Low*-class people, due to their gross ignorance, introduce a system of religion that deviates from the Vedic principles." The other day I was speaking that system of religion can be given by God Himself. But they do not know who is God, where is God, what is His principle, why does He want to give us religion. They are so ignorant, especially in this age, they do not believe in these things at all. Very awkward position. So they deride at Vedic principles, nāstik. According to them, bhasmī bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet. The body, which is burned down into ashes, what is the meaning of talking about this body, that again it comes and takes birth in a different form of life? Nobody believes these things. And now everything, very precarious condition of this age. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10].



*So therefore the process of reviving their Kṛṣṇa consciousness is Kṛṣṇa's. No other process will help. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was Kṛṣṇa Himself. He advised, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. The only hope is if you go through the śāstras, Vedic literature, that is the way to understand. But at the present moment people are so engrossed with material affairs that they are not interested even to hear or to talk about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not a very good sign. It is the feverish condition of durbhikṣa. That is mentioned in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that people in general, when they come to the point of suffering from natural law, then they will revive their nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. So therefore, as I was speaking in this morning, we have to elevate the human civilization from a platform which is on equal level with hog civilization. We should very carefully study and try to know whether the advancement of civilization which we have accepted is genuine. No. It is not genuine. It is misleading. Our aim of life is not to get a comfortable life for few years. Actually, there is no comfortable life. Still, we consider and forget our real business, self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2].

*So these persons, māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. They have been described by Prahlāda Mahārāja as the most hated, foolish persons, vimūḍhān. Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has mentioned this class of men as mūḍha. And Prahlāda Mahārāja has described these classes of men, not only mūḍha but vimūḍha. Vimūḍha means particularly mūḍha. Pramattaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Same thing, vimūḍhān. It is very dangerous civilization. They are spoiling their human form of life. This human form of life is meant for different purpose, tapasya. But they have been engaged in the lives of hogs and dogs, work very hard, get some money, and enjoy for sense gratification. This is not human civilization. So following their own mental concoction they automatically fall down into the dark region of existence. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram [SB 7.5.30]. Here yesterday I went to Malad(?) to some friend's house. How they are living, middle-class men. In Bombay especially we see they are living very awkward position, not very comfortable life. Still, they stick to the city life, and if we call them, "Come to Hyderabad. We shall give you nice place, nice food, nice milk, nice cloth. That is your problem. We shall give you. Please come and live with us," "No." Therefore it is called hog civilization. Hog, they are living in a filthy place, eating stool. If you request the hog, "Please come with me. I shall give you nice place to live in. I shall give you halavā," they'll not come. So this is the position.

*Therefore they fall down. Fall down means from our spiritual identification we fall down to material identification, upādhi. Material identification, upādhi, designation. I am now speaking, "I am Indian," but "Indian," that is (not) my designation. I am neither Indian nor European. You are not Indian, European. We are giving more stress on the designation. That is the mistake of modern civlization. And in the śāstra such persons who designate himself with this body, they have been described as go*-kharaḥ, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. So we shall be very careful. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So next... (reading) "In this age of Kali people are overwhelmed by the modes of passion and ignorance. Lord Ṛṣabhadeva incarnated Himself to deliver them from the clutches of māyā." God has no business to come here. He is Vaikuṇṭha*-pati. Vaikuṇṭha means vigata-kuṇṭha-yasmād. Kuṇṭha means anxiety. In the spiritual world there is no anxiety,. and the material world, it is full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-gṛhāt. On account of accepting this false, temporary material world, we are always full of anxiety, and Vaikuṇṭha world, kingdom of God, is just opposite: no anxiety. Why there should be anxiety? Here we have got the fear of birth, death, old age and disease, and in the spiritual world there is no such thing, birth, death, old age and disease. And everything is complete there. There is no fight between one person to one person. In this way, the description is there. The summary is that there is no jurisdiction for the three modes of material nature. It is above the jurisdiction. That is Vaikuṇṭha world.

*So long we are in the jurisdiction of three modes of material nature, up to that time we shall disagree with one another and there will be trouble. Therefore the Vaiṣṇava religion is meant for the peaceful person. No trouble. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. Those who have come to the stage of seeing everyone on the equal terms... Equal terms means spiritually. That we invite everyone. There is no discrimination. We don't care for the designations. We invite everyone to leave aside the designation and come in your original form and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and be happy, for which we are prepared to take all kinds of incon... There is no inconvenience, but suppose in the old age I am traveling all over the world. People think that I have taken some hardship. But for Kṛṣṇa's sake, even it is hardship... Actually, there is no hardship. But even it is hardship, we should take it. Para-upakāra. People are in ignorance, they are suffering, and it is especially India's business to release them from this material suffering and give them information about the Vaikuṇṭha world, the world of no anxiety. And try to train them in different ways. That is the real welfare activity in the human society.

Thank you very much. (end)





*Śrīmad Bhāgavatam* 6.1: Lectures



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.1-4

--

Melbourne, May 20, 1975

750520SB.MEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.1-4

-

Melbourne, May 20, 1975



Prabhupāda: (devotees chant responsively)



rāja uvāca

*nivṛtti*-mārgaḥ kathita

ādau bhagavatā yathā

*krama*-yogopalabdhena

brahmaṇā yad asaṁsṛtiḥ

[SB 6.1.1]



*pravṛtti*-lakṣaṇaś caiva

*traiguṇya*-viṣayo mune

*yo 'sāv alīna*-prakṛter

*guṇa*-sargaḥ punaḥ punaḥ

[SB 6.1.2]



*adharma*-lakṣanā nānā

narakāś cānuvarṇitaḥ

manvantaraś ca vyākhyāta

ādyaḥ svāyambhuvaḥ yataḥ

[SB 6.1.3]



priyavratottānapador

*vaṁśas tat*-caritāni ca

*dvīpa*-varṣa-samudrādri

*nady*-udyāna-vanaspatīn

[SB 6.1.4]



So yesterday we talked about Parīkṣit Mahārāja. So he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy. So he prepared himself for death. What was the preparation? That he left immediately his kingdom and the kingdom was divided among his sons. He was young man, not very old, but he understood, "Now, within seven days, I will have to die." So immediately he left home and went to the bank of the Ganges. He was situated... His capital was what is now called New Delhi. Formerly it was known as Hastināpura. The another name of Hastinā..., New Delhi, is there still, and there is a very, very old fort. They say that this fort belonged to the Pāṇḍavas, Mahārāja Parīkṣit. They are keeping just like in Rome they are keeping old buildings. So apart from historical reference... So Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was king, emperor of the world. So he was preparing for dying. Many, many, from all over the world, saintly persons, kings, even some demigods from other planets, they came to see him.



*So what to do at the time of death? One has to change. Death means change of this body. The modern civilization, they do not know it. That is the first understanding of spiritual knowledge, that we change our body. I am spirit soul, every one of us, spirit soul, even the animals and the trees and plants and aquatics, any living being. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living being. Of all of them, the human form is considered the best. Best means it has got..., the human form has got developed consciousness. Developed consciousness means they can understand what is past, what is future, what is present. Especially to understand his position as spirit soul, to understand God, to understand what is His relation with God, and what he should do in that relationship*-these things are understandable in the human form of life, not otherwise. We cannot invite dogs and cats to come here and hear about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. No. That is not possible. But a human being, he can hear. He can understand.

*So this is our special opportunity after evolutionary process passing through eight million..., at least eight million different forms of life. The list is there in Padma Purāṇa. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni: "Nine lakhs' forms of life within the water." There is animal in the water which is called timiṅgila. It is so big that... We have got experience. The whale fish is very big. That whale fish is taken up by this timiṅgila fish just like a big fish swallows a small fish. Such big, big fishes are there within the... They do not come visible to the..., but there are. We get information. Timiṅgila. Many very big, big animals are there within the water, deep. So there are nine lakhs, 900,000 forms of life within the water. And then jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Then... Sthāvarā means "stand up." We have got experience. I do not know whether you have got. In our school days, if a boy is making trouble, the teacher will ask him, "Stand up on the bench." So the stand-up punishment... The trees, the plants, they are stand-up punishment. (laughter) "Stand up here for five thousand years." You see? There are many trees, they are standing up for five thousand years, seven thousand years. In California I have seen one tree, they say it is seven thousand years old. So just imagine. If the teacher punishes a boy to stand up for few minutes, how much troublesome it is, and if one is ordered to stand up for seven thousand years, so just imagine what is the punishment. So that is punishment. These trees and plants, because they committed very sinful activities, they... Naked, to become naked, is also another criminal activity. Therefore, by nature's law, the trees, the, they are standing up naked. They do not dress. Similarly, if a human being does not dress, does not cover, then what is the difference between the trees and the human being? It is the human being who requires to be properly dressed. That is the law of nature. If we violate, then the punishment is: "All right, you become tree and stand up naked for ten thousand years." This is the nature's law. You cannot violate the nature's law. And we are completely under the laws of nature. You cannot say that "I don't care for." No. You may say, foolishly, but you are, you are. Just like nature's law is that you must die. Can you say, "No, I shall not die"? Can you say boldly, "No, no, I shall not die. I am now scientific. I have got my science, I shall not die." The nature's law is: you must die.

*So in this way you should understand how strongly you are controlled by the nature's law. But foolishly we say, "No." That is not. Just like this Mahārāja Parīkṣit, such a powerful king, he is now somehow or other cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy that "You must die within seven days." So he is preparing. He has got time, seven days. But what we have got? We haven't got even seven minutes' warning. At any moment we can die. And what we are doing? That is the foolishness. One must be ready, that "I will have to die. And 'die' means I will have to accept another body." Now, there are so many forms of body. As I was explaining aquatics, 900,000, then trees. As the water dries, the vegetation comes. You have got experience. That is the nature's process. And after vegetation, then the flies, insects, moving, up to trees and plants, not moving. Then they move*-flies, grasshoppers. And they turn into birds again, very freely flying. And there are many, many big birds in the sky, eagles. Some of the eagles, you have got experience. There are monkey-eating eagles. They capture the monkey. And there are eagles elephant-eating. (laughter) We get all this information. Elephant, they will capture elephant and take it away. (laughter) Just imagine. It is no joking. This is a fact.

*So there are so many birds, eagle birds, they fly, and they go from one planet to another. They are resting... Just like a bird you see, they fly from one tree to another tree. So their resting place is one planet to another. Just see. You are trying to go to the moon planet bogusly. I'll say bogusly because you could not go there. The moon planet is far away from the sun planet. So it is not possible to go there by the so*-called jets plane. No. It is far, far away. It is sixteen hundred thousand miles away from the sun. The modern scientist calculation is ninety-three million miles, the sun is situated, and above that, sixteen hundred thousand miles up, there is moon planet. So by the Vedic calculation it is not possible to go there by the method we are attempting. That is not possible. And the proof is that why, if they are going to the moon planet, why they cannot stay there? Now, the argument is that "There is no vegetation. The atmosphere is different, where living being cannot stay." They say like that. But from the Vedic information we understand that moon planet influence the vegetation in all other planets. So if the moon planet helps vegetation in all other planets, how it is that there is no vegetation? So there are many thing, contradiction, and practically we see, they are going to the moon planet, but they cannot stay, uselessly going and coming. So let them do that, but we have got our other inform..., other sources of information, that we cannot go to the moon planet. It is not possible.

*So anyway, the nature's law is very strict. We cannot surpass. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mam māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



You cannot go, or you may go, but so far you have not gone or you have not been successful. But there are many, many other planets. That we see at night, many, many. But spiritual process is so made... Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā, the material nature, is very, very strict, but if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he surpasses the laws of material nature. That is possible. Māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. How? Just like we are trying to go to this planet or that planet, but we have been unsuccessful. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately after death you immediately go to the Kṛṣṇa planet, immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So we Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we believe in the statement of Kṛṣṇa and act accordingly. So we have no difficulty, because we are under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are assured, if we actually act according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then we are sure to go back to Kṛṣṇa, back to Godhead, without any difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says,



janma karma ca me divyam

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mam eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*So we believe. We blindly believe, blindly or knowingly. It is not possible knowingly, but if we accept Kṛṣṇa's argument, then we have to believe. Kṛṣṇa does not say anything without any reason. Nobody says. No authority says like that. So what to speak of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is the greatest authority. If we blindly accept His statement, that is also good, and if we apply our reason and argument, that also you can do. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*He is giving very practical example that because the soul is within this body, therefore bodily changes are taking place. Now, suppose if a child is born dead. That... You can keep it by some method, preservative method, but it will not grow. One can understand very easily. Because the soul is there, therefore the child from the womb of his mother grows gradually. Grows means changing body. Everything, information, is there in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. The man and woman, father and mother, after sex the two secretion is emulsified and it takes a form like a pea. And the small living entity, the measurement is also given. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 19.140] "One ten-thousandth part of the upper portion point of hair." You know the point of hair. Now divided into ten thousand part and take one part. That is the form of the soul. That little spark takes shelter into that emulsified pea, and because the soul is there within, it develops from the mother's womb. The child does not develop all of a sudden. Every mother knows that. It grows gradually, little by little, little by little. When it is seven months, then it is further..., it moves. So in this way the... Kṛṣṇa says that don't take this body as the living being. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body, the soul is there. So everyone can understand.



Now, because the soul is there, therefore the body is changing. Everyone knows that he was a child. I know, you know. I remember my childhood body or my boyhood body, my youthhood body. I am old man. I remember them, that "I was doing as a young man like this. I was doing as a boy like this. I was jumping. Now I cannot jump. Why? The body has changed." The body has changed. It is very good logic. The same "I" am there. I was a boy. I was jumping. Now I am old man. I have changed my body. I cannot do that. I will have to take the stick. Because the body has changed. So where is the fallacy of logic? It is very clearly... And the authority says... Kṛṣṇa says, not an ordinary person. He says, "Within this body there is the soul, and as on account of the soul, the body is changing shape from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old man's body. Similarly, when this body will be useless, he will accept another body." This simply truth one has to understand first of all before anything spiritual knowledge. If one cannot understand that the spirit soul is different from this body, then he is cat and dog. He is not human being.

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*svā*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. If anyone accepts this body... This body is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyuḥ: mucus, bile, and air. So if we accept this body, combination of bones and flesh and blood and urines and stool and kapha and mucus and so many things, if we consider this body as "I am, the soul," do you mean to say that is very good knowledge? No. That is go-kharaḥ. Go-kharaḥ means animal. Go means cow and kharaḥ means ass. So these animal think like that, "I am this body." And if a man thinks like that, he is no better than the animal. That is not possible. Do you mean to say by combination of this blood, flesh, bones, urine, and stool and so many other things, you can, by combination, make a person like big scientist, philosopher, mathematician, by combination of these ingredients? Is it possible? Then there are much quantity of blood and flesh and this in the slaughterhouse. You bring and mix with them stool and urine and make a Professor Einstein. (laughter) You are advanced scientist. You bring this ingredient and make a very intelligent man. So this is all foolishness. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who thinks this body as the self, then he is in the animal kingdom. One, if anyone wants spiritual knowledge, he first of all know what is spirit, then spiritual knowledge. If you have no idea of spirit, what is the value of your spiritual knowledge? There is no value. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving that enlightenment, that you are not this body. Not this movement; *it is there... in the statement of Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yau... [Bg. 2.13]. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase [Bg. 2.11]. When Arjuna was declining to fight... Other side was his kinsmen, his brother, nephews, his teacher, all very affectionate. So Arjuna declined, "Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight. They have usurped our kingdom. That's all right. They are also our own men. Let them enjoy. But I am not going to kill them." This is Vaiṣṇava. Because he is a devotee, in spite of being harrassed by the other party... Wife was insulted, then kingdom was taken by betting, by gambling. In this way they were put into so many troublesome position. Still, when there was actual fight, because Arjuna was a Vaiṣṇava, devotee, he said, "Let them enjoy. I am not going to fight." This is Vaiṣṇava. Ordinary man would have taken very seriously, "Oh, these people have insulted like that. They have taken our... Yes, we must fight." So Vaiṣṇava by naturally, by nature, is not violent. But if it requires, if Kṛṣṇa directs that "You must fight," they fight. That is Vaiṣṇava. When Arjuna declined to fight, and then Kṛṣṇa had to instruct him about the whole instruction of Bhagavad-gītā just to induce him to fight. And at last, Arjuna was asked by Kṛṣṇa, "Now what is your decision? I have told you everything. What do you decide? Whatever you decide, now you do. I have finished My instruction." He said, "Yes, I shall fight." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava, naṣṭo mohaḥ [Bg. 18.73]. "I was illusioned. Now it is my duty. Because You are ordering and I have heard You very patiently, so it is my duty to fight." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. This very word is there. "I shall act as you advise." This is the result of studying Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā, and when you agree to act by the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then your Bhagavad-gītā reading is success. Otherwise, if you act differently, then you may read Bhagavad-gītā for many thousands of years. There is no benefit.

*So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that aśocyān anvaśocan. In the beginning Arjuna was arguing with Kṛṣṇa to support his decision that he would not fight, but he could not convince Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That he understood, that "Although I am speaking so many things, Kṛṣṇa is not changing. He is fixed up." Then he surrendered himself: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, we are now talking as friends. No, we shall talk now as master and disciple. You I accept You as my master." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. He accepted Him as the master and he became disciple to understand Bhagavad-gītā. This is the way. If you have got your own opinion, you will never understand Bhagavad-gītā. You have to take lessons from the master. Although the book is there, for example I can give you. Suppose if you want to be a medical man, the books are available in the market. You can purchase and read and become a doctor. Is it possible? Is it possible that simply by reading books, purchasing from the market, I become a medical man? No. That is not possible. You have to learn it from a person who is a medical man. Then you will. You go to the medical college and learn the medical science from the practical medical man, and then you examine, put yourself in examination. When you pass... This is the way. So any śāstra, any book, even in the material world, it is not possible to read oneself and understand the real fact. That is not possible. Therefore Vedic injunction is that if you want to learn that spiritual science, tad-vijñāna. Tat. Tat-vijñāna means spiritual science. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is the instruction. If you want to learn that spiritual science, then you must approach a bona fide guru. Gurum evābhigacchet. There are many sastric injunction like that. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21].

*And who requires a guru? Guru is not a fashion. It is necessary. How it is necessary? Now, anyone who is inquisitive to understand the spiritual science, for him it is necessary. Jijñāsuḥ sreya uttamam. Even if you want to become an ordinary electrician, still, you require a teacher, and what to speak of spiritual science. So that is necessary. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. So Arjuna followed it, and he submitted himself to Kṛṣṇa to become His disciple, not to talk as friend. So when he accepted Him as the spiritual master, so... Teacher... The teacher has the right to chastise the student. That is accepted. So He immediately chastised him, Arjuna. Arjuna was chastised. What is that? Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like a very learned man, but you are lamenting on the subject matter on which no learned man laments. That means you are a fool." It is indirectly said. "No learned man laments on this subject." What was the subject? He was considering that "If I kill the other side, my brother or my nephew or my teacher, they will die." So that is the general impression in the whole world. Then He teaches, "No. On account of death of the body, the soul does not die. The soul simply changes another body. That's all." This is the first instruction. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. For that reason you cannot kill. It is not that Kṛṣṇa was encouraging killing. No. Duty. When there is fight, there is killing. You cannot avoid it. Just like the soldier. What is the duty of the soldier? Kill as many as possible the enemies. But the same soldier, if he comes back home and kills some of his men or countrymen and he is arrested and in the court, he is ordered to be hanged, and if he pleads that "I am a soldier. In the battlefield I have killed so many persons, and now I have killed one man. Why you are ordering me to be hanged?" What will be the answer of the court? The answer that "You cannot kill on principle. But you can kill on the superior order. You cannot kill by your whims." In the battlefield the commander-in-chief orders, "Yes, you kill and get gold medal." But if you think the, "I have killed so many persons in the battlefield. Here is my enemy. I kill him." No. That you cannot do. That you cannot do. This is the principle. When there is duty, that is another thing. But not whimsically. We cannot kill. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill." This is the order. "Thou shall not kill." But we are violating the order. We are killing so many animals. So this is not good. On the plea that "Lord Christ sometimes took some fish somewhere; therefore we will have to maintain a big slaughterhouse," this is not very good logic.

*So anyway, we have to act according to the superior order. And so far the spirit soul is concerned, that is the first lesson of spiritual knowledge. Unless you understand what is spirit... We are present here. The body is there and the spirit is there. Now we must analyze according to the direction given in authoritative books. That is very easy. Kṛṣṇa says that within this body there is the spirit soul. And we can experience that unless the spirit soul is there, the body does not change, and as soon as the spirit soul goes away, the body is a dead lump of matter. That's all. Very easy to understand. So we have to first understand this, then spiritual progress. If we remain like asses and dogs and cats, that "I am this body," there is no question of spiritual understanding. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. Read it and you will understand what is the difference between spirit and matter. In so many ways they have been described. Then if we understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," then my duty will be assigned, that "I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So I am acting for the body only? The body is perishable." Antavanta ime dehāḥ. Everything is there. Antavat means perishable. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ: "But the spirit soul is eternal." So I am working day and night so hard only for this body, how to eat, how to dress, how to have sex, how to defend. What I am doing for the spirit soul? That is knowledge. The spirit soul, I am the spirit soul, and because as spirit soul I am within this body, the body is working, moving, and I am simply taking care of the body. What care I am taking for myself, the spirit soul, who is going to change this body?

*Now, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. The spirit soul will change this body, as it has already changed from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood. That I already explained. So what type of body I am going to accept next life? I am not going to die. I am simply changing body. Just like we change dress. If one dress is torn or old, we change another dress. Exactly like that. This body we change when it is no more usable. We have got our spiritual body. And they say the spirit is formless. No. Now if this body is my dress, then how the body has got these hands and legs? Just like because you have got actually hands and legs, therefore your coat and pant has got hands and legs. If you have no form, then how the coat and pant is made? The coat, the pant has got legs because actually I have got leg. The coat has hands or body because actually I have got body. So the argument that the spirit is formless, that is bogus. Unless I have got form, how the dress body is made with hands and legs and heads and everything?

*So these are the subject matters to be considered. That is called brahma-jijñāsā, to understand about his spiritual life, spiritual knowledge. Then there will be question, "How the spirit soul-I am*-I have contacted this material body?" And it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that because I have accepted this material body, all miserable conditions are there. We are trying to get over miseries. That is called struggle for existence. Everyone is trying. He thinks, "One status of life is miserable. Let me avoid it and get better life." That is our struggle. In this way, from lower bodies we have come to this spiritual..., I mean to say, human form of body. Now it has to be decided what is our next body. Next body. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. You'll find:

*yānti deva vratā*-devān

*pitṛn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*If you want to go to the higher planetary system where the demigods live, you can go there. Therefore the karmīs, by performing Vedic ritualistic ceremonies, they want elevation to the higher planetary system where the life, prolongation of life is very, very big. As we have got day and night, in the higher planetary system the waxing and waning moon, then when the moon is present there and the sky is in light, that is the day of the higher planetary system. And when the moon is dark, that is the night. That means our fifteen days, in the higher planetary system*-twelve hours. Just imagine their year. And such ten thousands of years you can live if you can go to the moon planet. The day and night, fifteen days, your fifteen days, is equal to their one day. No, twelve hours. That means your one month is their one day. Now calculate one day, then thirty days, one month. Then twelve months equal to one year. Such ten thousands of years. Just imagine. You can go there and live like that, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25], if you like. But that is not eternal life. After that long period, you have to die. So Kṛṣṇa says janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You are trying to avoid all kinds of miserable condition, but your real miserable condition is your birth, death, old age, and disease. Try to avoid it. That is perfection. That is spiritual life.



So there are many things. If you kindly take advantage of our offering... We are presenting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very genuinely and authorizedly. The center is open now. Now it is up to you to take advantage of it and be benefited.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) [break]

Madhudviṣa: If there is any questions to present to His Divine Grace you can ask them now. Yes?



Guest: What is the purpose of the Deity worship?



Madhudviṣa: What is the purpose of Deity worship?



Prabhupāda: Deity means Kṛṣṇa's Deity. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's Deity is not different. The whole idea, spiritual knowledge, means to understand God. So vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is the purpose of Vedic knowledge. So just to favor you... You cannot see now God. So Kṛṣṇa has come in Deity form to accept your service. And we have to render service. Not that it is a doll or stone, no. He is Kṛṣṇa. Because you cannot see at the present moment except stone and wood, He has accepted this form like stone and wood so that you can see and render service. This is the purpose of Deity worship.



Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that because the body has arms and legs, then the coat has a similar shape. Then does the spirit soul that's within our body have arms and legs like that?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (1): Would the spirit soul that is within, say, a cow's body, is in a different shape?



Prabhupāda: Yes. It has got also legs. But the shape has taken according to his desire. Every animal has got these four things. Just like bird, it has got two wings, two legs. The animal has got four legs. And the man has got two hands, two legs. So the same parts of the body, they are appearing in a different type. But the four limbs of the body are there. Hm?



Devotee (2): Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?



Madhudviṣa: The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it...



Prabhupāda: Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Kṛṣṇa, two hands, two legs.



Hari-śauri: How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?



Prabhupāda: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul.



Hari-śauri: They are covered in the spiritual world?



Madhudviṣa: He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well.



Prabhupāda: Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as flower; *they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa," he becomes flower, voluntarily. And he can change his..., from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as cow, he serves Kṛṣṇa as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. Ye yathā mām prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. That is Kṛṣṇa's all*-powerfulness, spiritual life.



Guest: What is the first stage of transformation like in the consciousness after one discovers chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?



Prabhupāda: You understand what you are. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra when you are purified, then you can understand that you are not this body; *you are soul. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho abhadrāṇi [SB 1.2.17]. Abhadrāṇi means inauspicious things. That is the modes of ignorance and passion. So in the material world some of us, most of us, we are covered by these modes of passion and ignorance. That is abhadra. That is most inauspicious. We cannot understand. But gradually we have to come to the modes of goodness, sattva-guṇa. So rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa is covering us. So by śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ... If you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then these dirty things, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, will be cleansed. And even it is not completely cleansed, naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu [SB 1.2.18], even almost clean, then you come to the platform of sattva-guṇa. And as soon as you come to the platform of sattva-guṇa, the resultant action of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, namely kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. So long you are covered by the passion and ignorance... The ignorance means you do not know anything. Just like animals. And passion means although human being, they are after sense gratification. That is called passion. So both these qualities will keep you in darkness. By the resultant action of these modes, you will be simply greedy and lusty. So if you come to the platform of sattva-guṇa, then you become free from this greediness and lustiness. Then your life becomes settled. Then gradually you will understand what is God, what is your relationship. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. You can do that simply by cultivating this Bhāgavata life. That is required. What is that?



Devotee (3): Is Kṛṣṇa always seeking to engage us in His devotional service, and is He upset in some way if we reject His offer?



Madhudviṣa: Is Kṛṣṇa always anxious for us to engage in His devotional service, and does He become upset if we reject His offering?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are foolish. Kṛṣṇa, God, is coming to you to take you back to home, back to Godhead. If you reject, that is your foolishness. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. One who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God*-when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, it is God-then what class of man he is? That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Duṣkṛtinaḥ, mūḍhaḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, āsuri bhāvam āśr... Immediately you come to these categories. What is that? Duṣkṛtinaḥ, most sinful. Unless you are most sinful, you cannot reject Kṛṣṇa's offer. Or unless you are rascal number one, you cannot reject Kṛṣṇa's offer. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ. So as soon as you reject Kṛṣṇa's offer, that means you are most sinful, you are rascal number one, you are lowest of the mankind, and your knowledge has been taken by māyā. That's all. Thank you very much. (end)





750521SB.MEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.1

-

Melbourne, May 21, 1975



Prabhupāda: (devotees chant responsively:) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.



rajovaca

*pravṛtti*-mārgaḥ kathita

ādau bhagavatā yathā

*krama*-yogopālabdhena

brahmaṇā yad asaṁsṛtiḥ

[SB 6.1.1]



*So we have discussed the last two days what is the aim of life. So this whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is diverting the aim of life. There are two ways. Our present position, the aim of life is sense gratification. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Material life means sense gratification, as much as possible. And the central point of sense gratification is sex life. Yan maithunādi. Maithuna means sexual intercourse. This is the machine to keep the living entity bound up under the condition of material nature. We are conditioned by the material nature. We are thinking we are free. We are not free. That is not the fact. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You are thinking that you are free, whatever you like, can do, enjoy sense gratification-but under condition. You are not free."



So there are different grades of sense gratification, but the point is sense gratification. The cats and dogs, the animals, they are also satisfying their senses, and the human being also engaged in the same business. The cats and dogs, they are eating to their taste; *the human being is also eating to their taste. The standard may be different, but the taste is the same. Either you have sex intercourse with beautiful wife or husband or as sex intercourse between the she*-dog and he-dog, the enjoyment is the same. Just like if you have got a palatable food, either you put it into a golden pot or if you put it into iron pot, the taste is the same. The taste is not different. One may think that "I am eating in golden pot; *therefore I am advanced." But a learned man will say that "Whether you have changed the taste?" Either you drink something palatable in a golden pot or in iron pot or paper pot, the taste is the same. So this is called pravṛtti*-mārga. Pravṛtti-mārga means advancing in sense gratification.

So there are different grades. From the animal life we come to human life, and if we like, we can go to the higher planetary system, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapaloka. There are many planetary system above the sun. We have already discussed, above the sun... The moon planet is above the sun. The moon planet is not so near. So Kṛṣṇa says that even if you go to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka... That is many thousands years you can live and gratify your senses to higher standard than in this... Suppose you are drinking here in golden pot; there you will get in diamond pot. That will be the change, not that the taste will change. The taste, the same. The dog's pot and man's pot and demigod's pot, within the material world, the taste is the same, and ultimately, you have to die. That's all. That you cannot stop. Nobody wants to die. He wants to enjoy life perpetually. Now the scientists are trying to live more years. So what is the use of living more years? The śāstra says, taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti [SB 2.3.18] . The trees they live for five thousand years or more than that. So do they not live long years? So sane man will think that "What is the use of living for five hundred or five thousand years, standing in one place?"

*So this is not advancement. The advancement is that, as Kṛṣṇa says, that to solve the problem of birth, death, old age, and disease. That is advancement. So Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, that ābrahma*-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even if you go... Why to the moon planet? Even if you go to the topmost planet, which is called Brahmaloka... There you can live for many millions of years, but you have to die. As you have to die here, as the cats dies, dog dies... We human being, we also die. The demigods, they also die. The Brahmā will also die. Nobody can save himself from death. Death... Birth, death, old age, and disease. We have already discussed that we living beings, soul, we are eternal. We are eternal, we are simply changing the body, one body to another. In this way, material life means you can live for one minute or one hour or hundred years or millions of years. You get a particular type of body, and according to that body, you live. And therefore you have to die. Kṛṣṇa says that ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even if you go to the topmost planet, you can live for long, long years, but you will have to die and again come to this earthly planet and again begin your life. This is going on. So how it is going on? Pravṛtti-mārga. "I want to enjoy sense gratification." This is the basic principle. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that back to home, back to Godhead, not to make proceed or progress towards birth, death, old age, and disease, but make progress towards no birth, no death, no old age, no disease. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is called nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti means stop this type of progress.

*So there are indication in the śāstra that how to make progress towards the goal of nivṛtti-mārga. That is stated, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you associate with devotees, mahat, mahātmā, great soul... Who is great soul? Great soul means who has understood God. He is great soul. He is called mahātmā. That is stated, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ-prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā means he is not under the condition of this material nature. He is under the protection of the spiritual nature, he is mahātmā. You have to live under somebody. That is our position. You cannot say that "I am not living under somebody. I am independent." No. That is not possible. Nobody can say. Can anybody say that "I am independent"? No. Because our constitutional position is that, to serve. Either I serve my family or serve my community or serve my nation or serve my government*-in this way go on increasing-but your position is to serve. You... Here you will find, therefore, that the so-called master is also servant. Just like President Nixon. He was elected the master, president, but actually he was the servant of the popular vote. As soon as he became unpopular, he was immediately dismissed. So the president of a big state is the position that he is a servant. How you are not a servant? That is our nature. So people are engaged in service generally. "Generally" not. That is the law. If one hasn't got to serve anybody, no family, no children, no wife, then he keeps a dog, to serve him. Is it not a fact? I have seen in the Western countries, old man who has no family, his whole day he is keeping a dog and seeing the television. That's all. (laughter) Because nature is to serve. That you cannot... Therefore pravṛtti-mārga means that we are trying to become false master, sense gratification.

Actually, we are the servant of the senses. We are not master. When you become master of the senses, then this title is given, gosvāmī, svāmī. Svāmī means master. Master means master of your senses. Now we are being dictated by the senses, 'You do this," we do that. So our master is the senses, and the senses are six kinds of senses: Kāma, kāmādīnā, lusty desires; lobha, greediness; and mohaḥ, illusion; kāma, krodha, anger, mind... Mind is dictating something; *I am serving: "Yes, sir, I will do it." This is our position. Kāma, krodha, lobha, mohaḥ, mātsarya, in this way. So by good association, by saintly man's association... That is recommended: mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. Mahat-sevā. This human life is meant for rectification. We are serving somebody, and we are not happy. We have got very good example in our country, in many other countries. Just like our Mahātmā Gandhi, he served his country very well, but the result was that his countrymen killed him. This is the result of our service. Nobody will appreciate. We are serving our family. The wife is not satisfied; (s)he divorces the husband. The son is not satisfied; he goes out of home. So just analyze that we are serving to our best capacity, but nobody is satisfied. This is our position. Kāmādīnāṁ katidhā na katidhā pālitā durnideśā. Actually we are serving our senses. I love my wife because she satisfies my senses. I love my husband because he satisfies my senses. Actually, we are servant of our senses. As soon as the sense gratification is disturbed, then "No, no, I am not going to serve you." Or "I am not satisfied with your service. You go away. I go away." This is our position.

So senses are there. So one who is associating with the devotees... Devotees mean who is engaged in the service of the Lord. He is not engaged in the service of the senses. That is devotee. Devotion... The definition of devotion is given in the śāstra,

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalaṁ

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeṣa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*Sarva upādhi*-vinirmuktam. Upādhi means designation. I am spirit soul, but because I have accidentally..., or my result action, resultant action of my past karma, I am thinking, "I am Indian," somebody is thinking "I am American." So this is the designation of the soul. I am neither Indian, nor somebody is American, somebody is Australian. We are living soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is my position. But being designated in a different way, I have become a servant of that designation. So bhakti... Bhakti means nivṛtti-mārga, to become free from all these designations. That is called bhakti. The definition of mukti, or liberation, or becoming free from the designation, is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: Mukti means when we give up the service in designation and we are situated in our original constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation, or salvation, whatever you like. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa. What is my own constitutional position? I am eternal servant of God, Kṛṣṇa. This is my position. So when we give up all these designation service and engage myself in the real service of the real master, that is called mukti, liberation.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate men that "After all, you are servant. You have to serve somebody. You are now serving your senses. Now just divert your service to Kṛṣṇa, or God, and you will be happy. That's all." The service, constitutional position, will not change. That is my position. In Bengali there is a proverb, dheki svarge gelo dhana bhange.(?) The dheki, that's a wooden machine for husking grain. So I do not know whether it is used in your country. It is a big... It is peddled by the legs, and the grains are taken away the skin. So if this dheki, this machine, is sent to heavenly planet, what he will do? The same business: "Dag! Dag! Dag!" That's all. So either you go to the heavenly planet or you remain here or you remain in animal kingdom, your... Even the trees, they are standing*-they are giving service. They are giving you fruits, they are giving you flowers, and if you want his service, by the wood, by the body, you cut; *it will not protest. "All right, you take my body." So that is the way to understand that we must render service to somebody higher. So why not go to the Supreme, the great-"God is great"*-and render service? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then we'll be happy. You can go on giving service in this material world under so many designation, but you will never be happy, and the person to whom you are giving service, he will be not happy. This is material world. Try to understand.

*Therefore one devotee, he says, kāmādīnāṁ katidhā kathidāḥ na pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ, sāmprataṁ labdha*-buddhis tvām āyātaḥ niyuṅkṣvātma-dāsye. This is called good sense. The purport of this verse is, "My dear Lord, I have served my senses in the form of lusty desires and anger and so many things, kāma, krodha, lobha, greediness, and..." My senses are, means, these things. "So I have served life-long, but neither they are satisfied, neither I am satisfied." Teṣām. "And they are not merciful. I have served them up to the age of eighty years, but still they want service from me. If I want to retire, they will not agree." If somebody says to his wife that "I have served so much in the family. Now let me go to the Kṛṣṇa conscious temple. I serve there," the wife will disagree, "No. What service you have done? You have got duty, duty, this duty, that duty."

*So it will never end, even if you give lifelong service. Just like I have given the example: Gandhi gave lifelong service according to his own. Hitler gave lifelong service. Napoleon gave lifelong service. But their ultimate end was very, very regrettable. Nobody realized his service. He was punished. This is material world. We have to understand very clearly, and we have to take lesson from this verse that we may go on serving our lusty desire, greediness, anger, and so on, so on, but we will never come to the end and become happy. When one comes to the point that "I have rendered service in so many ways. So neither I am happy nor the person to whom I have served, they are happy. Then what is the remedy?" That is discussed in the Vedānta*-sūtra philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now inquire about your real master, Brahman, or the Supreme, the great, the Absolute Truth." That is required. So we should be prepared like that, that we have served our propensities, different propensities, lusty desire, greediness, anger, kāma, krodha, lobha, mohaḥ... Mohaḥ means illusion. I am doing something wrong, and I am thinking it is all right. This is called illusion, mohaḥ. Mātsarya. Mātsarya means envious, to become envious. Every one of us, either individually or socially or community-wise or nationally, we are all envious. The Russians, they are envious of the Americans, and the Americans, they are envious of the Russians. Similarly, everyone. That is the nature. So we are serving all these propensities. Now, this is called pravṛtti-mārga, progress towards sense gratification in different ways. And if we stop that and make progress to our real self-realization, real happiness, that is called nivṛtti-mārga.

*So this morning I was talking with one gentleman. He is in charge of the social welfare. So when I proposed that "Our nivṛtti*-mārga..., we recommend these processes: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, and no gambling, beginning," so he was not satisfied. He said that "Why you stop illicit sex? We get pleasure." So this is the understanding of the modern civilization. He is risking his life by all these processes, but if we request that "Stop this process. Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness," they will not agree. That is the difficulty. Therefore this line of action, nivṛtti-mārga, it is little difficult. But it is very easy. If one understands the philosophy, what is the meaning of pravṛtti-mārga and what is the meaning of nivṛtti-mārga, and if he is sane man, then he will accept, "Yes." Just like if you go to a physician and you are suffering from a disease, being... Say, just like nowadays there is prominent alcoholic treatment. People are too much addicted to alcohol, and there are so many departmental treatment, even for the priest also. I have seen one ad in a paper that in America there is a hospital where especially the priestly class drunkard, they are treated. (laughter) And five thousand patients are there. (laughter) So if the physician says, "No, no, you give up your drinking habit," then he will be angry. Then how he will be treated? That is the only medicine, that "You give up." It is not very difficult thing. Nobody learns drinking from the birth. Now, even one has learned drinking, now, all our students, you see practically. They are young men. They are not old men. Their senses are still strong. But they have given up. They have given up. They have given up illicit sex. They have given up intoxication. They do not take even tea, do not smoke cigarette. Neither they go to cinema, what to speak of going to other places. It is possible. But if we give up all these things, then our beginning to the nivṛtti-mārga, our progress towards back to home, back to Godhead, that is beginning.

*So if we accept the process, it is not difficult. So our life should be trained up in this way, nivṛtti*-mārga. Then we can make process for going back to home, back to Godhead. First of all we should understand that we are part and parcel of God. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and actually it is fact. What is God? God means what we are doing, He is also doing, because we are part and parcel. Just like your son, your daughter. They are your part and parcel of your body. So what is the difference? They are also acting, you are also acting. Similarly, God, Kṛṣṇa, is the supreme father. So so far the activities are concerned, the same. But the difference is that God is great; *we are small. That is the difference. God can create the so many planets. Just like the sun globe, it is... There are other globes also. They are bigger than sun. Anyway, the sun is very big. So God has created this big globe, means fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth*-or even this earth-floating in the air. You can float a big 747 airplane also floating in the air, but you cannot make a globe like sun and floating in the air. That is the difference between you and God. The creative power is there. Because we are part and parcel, the value is there. Just like gold mine and a small particle of gold. So small particle has... It will be called gold, and it has got some value. But not as good as the gold mine. This is the difference between God and ourself. We should understand. So if we give up this service to the senses and we engage ourself in the service of the great... Everyone wants to serve the great. That is natural. If one is serving ordinary mercantile firm, he is thinking of getting some service in the government office. That is very secure. So if we seek our service to the supreme government, Kṛṣṇa, or God, then we will be happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*If you actually want to be happy... Now you can see. These boys they are chanting, dancing. This is not artificial. Artificial dancing can be performed one day, two days, then finished. But they are doing twenty-four hours. How they are doing, unless they are feeling some happiness, transcendental happiness? They are not fools. They are not uneducated. They are educated. They are coming from a good family. But they have sacrificed everything, and they are enjoying this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting and dancing. Unless they feel... Even the girls, they are also dancing. So there is transcendental feeling of blissful life. Why? When one engages himself in the service of the Lord. This is the purport, very simple thing. And as soon as he will serve the designation, false service, he will spoil his time and will be under the condition of material nature. Material nature, we are all conditioned by material nature. Therefore we are changing body from one body to another. Now, by the nature's own process, evolution, we have come to this human form of body and we have got advanced consciousness, we have got direction like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Hari guru vaiṣṇava bhāgavata gītā. Bhāgavata-gītā. Just our Madhudviṣa Swami sung, we have got Kṛṣṇa, we have got spiritual master, we have got the books, Bhāgavata, we have got Gītā. Now let us take advantage of it. These transcendental literature, we have taken much pain to translate them into English so that you can understand. We have got fifty books. So take advantage. It is not meant for the cats and dogs. It is meant for the human being, not a particular class or nation. No. It is meant for all human being. So take advantage of this knowledge, understand the philosophy of life, that "I am eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. "I do not die after the annihilation of this body. I accept another body." We have got two bodies: this gross body and one subtle body. Just like you have got your coat, and within the coat there is shirt, similarly, within this gross body, there is another subtle body. This gross body is made of the material elements, earth, water, air, fire, ether, these five elements. Pañca. Pañca means five. Your body and my body, it is simply combination of these five material elements. This is the covering, coat. And within this, there is another body. What is that? Mind, intelligence, and ego. So everyone knows that you have got mind, I have got mind. Everyone knows that you have got intelligence, I have got intelligence. And everyone is puffed up with some identification, "I am this, I am that." These three conception, this is called subtle. Subtle body. So we simply see the gross body, but we do not see the subtle body. When death take place*-that means this gross body is finished-then the subtle body is there. And the subtle body carries the soul to another gross body. That we cannot see. Therefore we do not understand how this spirit soul is migrating, transmigrating from one body to another. We do not see. Therefore our seeing should be through knowledge, paśyati jñāna-cakṣuṣā, not this gross seeing. Gross seeing is imperfect. It has no value. We know. We should inquire that "This gross body is finished. Now what about the subtle body?"

So we have to understand from authoritative literature. The subtle body is working, just like when you sleep your gross body is not working, but the subtle body, the mind, intelligence and ego is working; *therefore you dream. Your subtle body is lying is some apartment, and you have gone to the seaside by the mental body. So, so long this gross body is able, you again come and enter into this gross body, but when it is not workable, then you have to find out another gross body in the womb of a certain type of mother. This is the law of transmigration of the soul. That subtle body will be carried by the laws of nature. According to the work you have done to your whims, then a certain type of body will be offered to you. You will be forced to enter into the womb of a certain type of mother, and the mother will give you the body. That we have got, everyone, experience. In the mother's body, after pregnancy, the body grows. Everyone knows it. So body grows why? Because the soul has entered, and according to his karma, either good mother or bad mother... So you are growing the same body or better body or lower body, and when it is mature, then you come out. You begin again your life. That is called pravṛtti*-mārga. In this way we have to accept birth, death, old age. As soon as you get this material body, there is birth, and as soon as there is birth, there is death. And as soon as the body is there, it is growing old. It is suffering disease.

*So if you want to avoid these four things... That is specially pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. You are solving your problems, but what, how you have solved your birth, death, old age, and disease? That is the question by Kṛṣṇa. Have you solved? Then what is the use of solving problems? The real problem is there. But if you want to solve this real problem, then you should take up this nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga means stop this way of sense gratification and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the way. If you continue your misbehavior, at the same time you want to cure your disease, that is not possible. Just like this alcoholic treatment. They go to the psychiatrist and so experienced... After all, if you do not give up this bad habit, then where is the question of treatment? Where is the question of treatment? That is called... That is explained in the śāstra, hasti-snāna. The example is very right. Hasti-snāna. Hasti, hasti means elephant. Elephant, they go into the water, in the lake, in the pond, and very nicely cleanse their body. Body very nicely cleansed, and after taking bath, as soon as it comes to the bank on the ground, he takes some dust and throw over the body. So atonement... Sometimes we make atonement. I have committed some sin. I go to church or go to temple. I make some atonement. Then after finishing that business, again I do that business. So this kind of habit will not help you. You must try to stop the bad habit. That you can do when you are in the association of devotees. Otherwise it is not possible.

*Sometimes there is some disagreement, that "Why one should not live outside the temple?" But that is little difficult, because in the temple you get good association. Everyone is trying to become free from this bondage of life. So there is some inspiration. But if you live outside the temple... We are making this temple commodious so that people may come here and live and learn the art, but if you do not live, there is risk. Because saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. If you live in certain association, drunkard association, then you will learn gradually how to drink. And if you live with the association of the devotees, then you will forget drinking. You will become devotee. So we are opening these centers, giving chance everyone. There is no discrimination. It is not a religious system. It is a cultural institution. Don't take as a religious. Religious is a kind of faith. You may accept that faith or not. That is your discretion. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a kind of faith. It is an cultural institution. If you, actually, you are serious that "I must stop these inconveniences of birth, death, and old age," then you must join this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is my request. That is called nivṛtti*-mārga. And gradually, you will be elevated to the topmost position, that you have no more attraction for these material things. That is possible. It is not that impossible. Simply one has got to follow the process.

*The process is generally ādau śraddhā. Ādau śraddhā, in the beginning... Just like you have come here with some honor or with some respect. That is called śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith: "All right, let us go there. What is this Kṛṣṇa conscious temple?" This is the beginning, that you come. This is called śraddhā. Then if you like it, "Now, here the people, they speak nicely from the books," then you come daily or weekly and associate with the... Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu*-saṅgaḥ. Sādhu-saṅgaḥ. This is the process. First of all one must get a little faith and then associate with the devotees. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā. Then, by associating with the devotees, we learn that "These devotees are worshiping the Deity, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and they are eating prasādam, and they are very happy. So why not engage me also in this way?" So therefore gradually they come and offer, "Now, sir, I shall join, and initiate me." In this way we are doing. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ tato bhajana-kriyā ādau anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. By execution of devotional service, whether you are making progress or not, that will be tested when anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, all the nonsense things which you have learned artificially, that will be finished. That is called anartha-nivṛttiḥ. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adho [SB 1.7.6].

*We have created so many anarthas, unwanted things, not required for me as spirit soul, but artificially, for this designation body. So when one is engaged in actual devotional service, then the result will be anartha*-nivṛttiḥ. Same nivṛtti. Nivṛtti means finished. It is not that all our students were free from this alcoholic habit or meat-eating or illicit sex, no. They were habituated. But because they have taken to the devotional service, this is all finished. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then spiritual life begins. Tato niṣṭha: "Yes, it is very nice. I shall continue." This is called niṣṭha, firm faith. The beginning was faith, and after anartha-nivṛtti, firm faith, "Yes, I shall continue." Tato niṣṭhā tato ruciḥ. How one can be firmly fixed up unless he has got a taste for it? He relishes, "Yes, this chanting and dancing is very nice." That is called relish. Tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathāsaktiḥ. Then he becomes attached. He cannot give it up. Āsaktiḥ. Āsaktiḥ means attachment. Just like we have got attachment for so many things. So these are the stages. Tathāsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. Then ecstasy. And then you come to the platform of loving God. Now we are loving cats and dogs. We shall love God. This is the way.

Thank you very much.

Madhudvīṣa: Are there any questions? Yes.



Devotee (1): At the point of death, the gross body returns back to the earth. Is there ever a time when the subtle body dies?



Madhudvīṣa: At the time of death the gross body returns to the earth. Is...?



Prabhupāda: The gross body is finished. Gross body becomes ash, stool, or earth. Those who are burying the gross body, it becomes after sometimes earth. And those who are giving this body to be eaten by other animals, it becomes stool. And those who are burning this body, the body becomes ash. So gross body there are three ultimate goal: either to become ash, or stool, or earth.



Madhudvīṣa: His question was "Is there a time when the subtle body ceases to exist?"



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is liberation. When... So long you are encircled by the subtle body, there is no question of liberation because the subtle body will take you to another gross body. When we are free from the subtle body, then we are liberated. We go back to home, back to Godhead. Yes?



Devotee (2): What's the subtle body like?



*Prabhupāda: I have already explained. Mind, intelligence, and ego-this is subtle body. Everyone has got his mind, everyone knows. But we cannot see. The intelligence... Everyone has got intelligence, but we cannot see. Similarly, subtle body is invisible. Ghost means when the living entity remains in the subtle body, do not get another gross body-they are very sinful*-they create disturbance. But we cannot see. That is ghost. Ghost means that those who are too much sinful, they do not get this gross body. They are punished with the position, to remain in the subtle body, at least for some time. That is ghostly life. Therefore you will see, ghostly-haunted places, something is being done, but how it is being done, you do not see because you cannot see the subtle body. But you will see something is being carried in the air. It is not something being carried. It is being carried by the subtle body. But I have no eyes to see the subtle body. That is practical. I do not see your mind, but you have got your mind. You do not see my mind. You can see my mind by the action. That's all. The subtle body is there. Gross body, subtle body. Death means finishing of this gross body, and liberation means no more association with the subtle body, only spiritual. That is called liberation.



Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? How does one become free from that ghostly body?



Prabhupāda: Ghostly body means he has to suffer for some time. Just like you are put into prison. After your term is finished, then you are liberated. Similarly, a most sinful man, he is given this term, "You remain for some years in the subtle body." Everything is like that. This is also. We have got this body, gross body, under certain condition. When that condition is finished, then I give up this body, I create another condition, and I enter another body. This is going on. Yes?



Woman: If we are all liberated in the end, and if we all reach Godhead, why is it necessary... [break]



Madhudvīṣa: ...reach Godhead in the end, why do we have to speed up the process? Why not we just let things take their natural course of events if everyone's going back to Godhead ultimately?



*Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is a good suggestion, but you rot for the time being. Suppose you are going somewhere, walking, and somebody gives you opportunity, "Come in my car," why don't you take advantage of it? You are... You will reach the destination by walking in six thousand years, (laughter) but if you get the opportunity... In your country there is good. There is staircase and there is elevator. So if you want to go, that "I shall go by the staircase and reach the upstair at the end of the day when office will be finished," (laughter) then you can do that. But if you are intelligent, you shall take the advantage of the elevator. Within a minute you go there. That is intelligence. "I am going. I shall reach at the end of the day when every office will be closed. Then I will come down again." If you see that, that you can do*-not very good intelligence. That is not intelligence. We have to take the speediest process. That is intelligence. Yes?



Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if a devotee fills his life with devotional service right from the time he is born, is that enough to attain the spiritual body? Will he necessarily be...



Prabhupāda: Yes, he is liking to serve me, that is the action of the spiritual body.



Devotee (3): Even though he might be...



Prabhupāda: Therefore, if you actually always remain in spiritual understanding, that means to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then Kṛṣṇa says, if you have understood what is God, that makes you qualified to go back to home, back to Godhead. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo janati tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. If you know what is God factually, then that is your qualification to go back to home, back to Godhead. But if you do not know, then your spiritual life has not begun. You must know what is God. That is knowledge.



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



The spiritual life means to understand yourself and understand God and understand your relationship with God and act accordingly. That is spiritual life. It is not difficult. How to understand God? You can understand just like you understand so many things from books. So there is book, God is explaining Himself, "I am like this." So you understand Him. Then you become qualified. Yes?



*Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bhagavad*-gītā it says that "Out of millions of men, only one may come to know Me, and of millions who know Me, only one can understand." What are ways...?



Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?



Madhudviṣa: He's speaking about the verse, "Out of millions of men who try for the path, only one may know Me, and out of those who know Me, only very few know Me in truth."



*Prabhupāda: That is stated in Bhagavad*-gītā also.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Where is Bhagavad*-gītā? Find out this verse. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many millions of men." The human life is meant for understanding God. Then... He can understand, but the attempt is not there. They are after sense gratification. Nobody is interested to understand God. Everybody is interested in cats' and dogs' business, sense gratification. Therefore out of many millions of men, one can understand that "My life is meant for other purpose." That is called siddhi, perfection, "How I shall make my life perfect?" This desire arises in one man out of millions. And they are simply engaged, how to satisfy senses perfectly. But that will never be done. A sane man thinks that "I have done it so many lives. I have not been satisfied. I have not become perfection. Then where is perfection?" That inquisitiveness makes him eligible. Just like ādau śraddhā. I have already explained. So after becoming siddha, perfect... Perfect means one must know that "I am not this body; *I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is perfection of knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānām: [Bg. 7.3] "Those who have become perfect, out of many millions of them, one can understand what I am." It is not so easy to understand God. But if you take the process as is recommended in the śāstras by saintly person, then it is easy. Otherwise it is not easy. If you speculate to understand God, that is not possible. Then you go on and many, many years speculating. You will never understand God. Either you take the shelter of Lord Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa, if you follow his instruction*-this is the way of understanding-then you will understand. But if you don't care for his instruction, then you will never understand. This is the process. Hmm.



Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that only if one can understand the nature of God, then he can go back home.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Devotee (5): But we have the case of the four Kumaras who were wandering in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, and yet they had not become fully God*-realized at that point, and yet they were allowed to enter...



Prabhupāda: Those who are going to Vaikuṇṭha planets, they are not fully realized of God? What does he say?



*Madhudvīṣa: He was citing the instance of the four Kumaras who were traveling through the gates of the Vaikuṇṭha world, but actually they were not completely God*-realized...



Prabhupāda: Therefore they are on the gates of Vaikuṇṭha, not within. You cannot enter the kingdom of God without full understanding. So you have to be trained up. This is the life. You become trained up to understand God, and you will enter the kingdom of God. Hmm?



Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how does one associate with the devotees?



Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?



Madhudvīṣa: How does one associate with the devotees?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, you do not understand? You can come and live with these devotees. Where is the difficulty? You can live here, you can take prasādam, and without any charge. Still, you are asking? This is the way. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅgaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. You have to make your association with the devotees. Then you will learn. Hmm.



Devotee (7): How much more difficult is it for one born in a family of nondevotees to become a devotee than a person who has been born in a family like Prabhupāda's?



*Prabhupāda: Sādhu*-saṅga means you have to give up the association of nondevotees. This question was asked to Śrī Caitanya was asked to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu by a devotee. He was householder. So he inquired, "My dear Sir, what is the real standard of behavior of a devotee?" He immediately answered that asat-saṅga tyāga ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra [Cc. Madhya 22.87]. "Vaiṣṇava devotee, his first behavior is he should give up unwanted association." That is first. Now, the next question will be: "What is that unwanted association?" He answered, asat eka strī-saṅgī kṛṣṇābhakta' āra: "This unwanted association means people who are too much attached to sex life, they are unwanted. And the another: nondevotee of God. They are unwanted." So you be careful not to mix with these people and come to the devotional service, then your life is perfect.



Devotee (8): Śrīla Prabhupāda, does a disciple first accept his spiritual master within the heart when he takes initiation?



Madhudvīṣa: What is the question again?



Devotee (8): When a disciple takes initiation, does he first take initiation within the heart?



Prabhupāda: Initiation is the third stage. First stage is that... Just like you have come. This is called śraddhā, faith, little faith, not full faith. Then you have to increase this faith by association of devotee. That is required. And when the faith is increased, then the question of initiation. Initiation should not be immediately offered. That will be misused. Therefore when we initiate, we inquire from the head of the temple, "How long he is coming? What is his behavior?" If he certifies that "Yes, he is doing nice," then we initiate. Our initiation is not so cheap, "You come and be initiated." No, we do not do that. We must test you first of all. Then we initiate.



Madhudviṣa: His question was that can you take initiation by accepting the spiritual master in your heart without actually taking...



Prabhupāda: These are bogus proposition. It has no meaning. (laughter) It has no meaning. If you think within yourself, "I am eating," will you be satisfied? You starve and simply think, "I have eaten everything." (laughter) Is that very practical proposal? You must eat. We don't say all these bogus proposition. All right. Thank you very much. (end)





760505SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.1

-

Honolulu, May 5, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, the first chaper, text number one. (devotees repeat)



śrī parīkṣid uvāca

*nivṛtti*-mārgaḥ kathita

ādau bhāgavatā yathā

*krama*-yogopalabdhena

brahmaṇā yad asaṁsṛtiḥ

[SB 6.1.1]



*"Mahārāja Parīkṣit said: O my lord, O Śukadeva Gosvāmī, you have already described in the Second Canto the path of liberation, nivṛtti*-mārga. By following that path, one is certainly elevated gradually to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, from which one is promoted to the spiritual world along with Lord Brahmā. Thus one's repetition of birth and death in the material world ceases."



*So pravṛtti*-mārga, nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛttir eṣāṁ bhūtānāṁ nivṛttes tu mahā-phalam. Pravṛtti means inclination. Here in the material world everyone is inclined to gratify the senses. This is material world. Everyone is trying. Āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. The best type of āhāra-nidra. Even in the human form of life they are also trying for the same thing, as cats and dogs are trying. The cats and dogs, they are also trying to find out where it is, food, where sleeping comfort, where sex life, and where defense. If the human form of life is also utilized for this purpose, pravṛtti-mārga, then it is, as I was talking in the park, it is just like using sandalwood for burning fuel. There is distinction even in wood. There are so many jungle wood, we can use it for cooking. But if the sandalwood, which is so valuable, if we do not know what is the value of sandalwood, if we use it for cooking and burning... Similarly, if we use this human form of life exactly like the cats and dogs, simply for sense gratification, then we are committing suicide.

*The whole Vedic civilization means how to utilize this human form of life for better purposes. Even modern scientific point of view. Not scientific, but they say. Accepting their version... Just like Darwin's theory: by evolution you come to the human form of life. Accepting that from monkey one becomes a human being, so what is after this form? Then they have no information. What is the next life? If the evolution is... That is also accepted in the Padma Purāṇa, 8,400,000 species, forms of life, and then we come to this human form of life. What is next? That is the question. But they have no knowledge. They have no sense. They cannot explain what is next. And there is next life. If by evolutionary process through the channel of so many species of life, 900,000 aquatics. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa... Two millions trees and plants, then 1100,000 insects, and one million species of birds, and then 33,000,000 species of animals, four-legged animals, paśu. And then we get this human form of life, especially civilized form of life. Then what is next? That question nobody inquires, neither there is answer by the so-called modern scientist, that what is next.

*But the answer is there. Answer is there in the Vedic literature that there is higher planetary system. We can see at night: there are so many millions and millions of planets. So we can go there. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Now we have come to the human form of life. If we cultivate sattva-guṇa... The material word is composed of three modes of material nature, the sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. So if we remain in the sattva-guṇa, then we shall be promoted to the higher planetary system. If we remain in rajo-guṇa, then we shall remain where we are. And if we remain in tamo-guṇa, ignorance, then we shall go down again to the lower species of life. This is the laws of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*The rascals, they are thinking they are independent. They are not independent. Completely under the control of the material nature. Otherwise why there are different species of life? Where is the arrangement? Arrangement is there. If you remain in sattva*-guṇa, then you get higher form of life. Nature's law is so perfect that it hasn't got to create. It is automatically. Just like if you infect some disease, germs, you will automatically suffer from that disease. Similarly, if we are in contamination, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa... Sattva-guṇa... Here sattva-guṇa is also a contamination. And what to speak of rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa? So this is called pravṛtti-mārga. According to our inclination we are contacting a certain type of the modes of material nature and we are getting different types of body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Kāraṇam. Why one is getting better position, and why one is not getting? Why one is dog, and why one is millionaire? So it is due to our association with different modes of material nature.



So here it is said,

*nivṛtti*-mārgaḥ kathita

ādau bhāgavatā yathā

*krama*-yogopalabdhena

brahmaṇā yad asaṁsṛtiḥ



*Saṁsṛtiḥ means the cycle of birth and death. This is called saṁsṛtiḥ. Saṁsṛtiḥ. And asaṁsṛtiḥ means to stop the cycle of birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead. Then, if you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then you have to follow the nivṛtti*-mārga. Pravrtti is there, my inclination is there, but if you practice nivṛtti-mārga, then you overcome the cycle of birth and death, saṁsṛtiḥ. So this human form of life is meant for nivṛtti-mārga, not to indulge the sense gratification but minimize sense gratification as far as possible. Try to make it zero. Then that is called nivṛtti-mārga. We are. We require this eating, sleeping, mating and defending. But if we try, if we practice, that is called austerity. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaḥ [SB 5.5.1]. Śuddha. Śuddha means purification, existence, purifying the existence. We are eternal, we are existing, and on account of impurity, we have got this material body, and it is subjected to the laws of material nature, and we have to change one after another. This is pravṛtti-mārga. But in the human form of life if we come to senses that "Why I shall accept repetition of birth, death, old age, disease, and so many miserable conditions?" so that is called sense. That is intelligence. That intelligence can be developed in human form of life, and if we do not do, then the same example: just you use the sandalwood for burning purpose.



Thank you very much. (end)



760506SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.2

-

Honolulu, May 6, 1976



Prabhupāda: Second verse. (devotees repeat)



*pravṛtti*-lakṣaṇaś caiva

*traiguṇya*-viṣayo mune

*yo 'sāv alīna*-prakṛter

*guṇa*-sargaḥ punaḥ punaḥ

[SB 6.1.2]



So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is trying to understand pravṛtti and nivṛtti. Pravrtti means here in this material world, anyone who has come, beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the small ant, they have come on account of pravṛtti, means for enjoying sex. This is material world. So long one will be engaged in sense enjoyment in different varieties, he will have to remain within this material world. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. We wanted to enjoy this material world; *therefore He has given us full chance: "Yes, you enjoy." Kṛṣṇa does not want that you should enjoy this material world. That is not He... Sometimes the foolish men, they say that "Kṛṣṇa has given us this facility for sense enjoyment. Why we shall not take it?" Sometimes the so*-called ṛṣis and yogis, they also say, "Yes, when you have got the senses, it is meant for enjoyment. Why it should be stopped?" Yes. Because... Really it has to be stopped. If you want real life of eternal enjoyment, then you have to stop. If you don't stop, then you remain here.



*Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. You have to take birth according to your desire, either as Brahmā or as ant, as a cat, as a dog, as demigod, and according to your capacity, Kṛṣṇa will give you: "All right." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. If you want from Kṛṣṇa sense enjoyment, He will give you all facilities. But Kṛṣṇa does not want. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is His mission, that "You will never be happy in this process of pravṛtti-mārga."

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kāre

pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhāre



Māyā means the condition in which I enjoy material sense gratification. That is called māyā. Māyā jāpaṭiyā dhāre. Jāpaṭiyā dhāre means catches, catches: "All right, come on." There are two things: light and darkness. If you remain in light, there is no darkness, and if you prefer to remain in darkness, there is no light. Two things are there. So māyā is darkness, and Kṛṣṇa is light. That is our motto in the Back to Godhead. "Godhead is light and darkness is nescience. Where there is God, there is no darkness." This is our position.



So pravṛtti lakṣaṇaś caiva traiguṇya viṣayo mune. This is pravṛtti. There are different pravṛttis. Sometimes some animal wants to eat something, another animal wants to eat another thing, but that is pravṛtti. Just like the hog: he is satisfied with stool. That is also eatable. And an enlightened human being, he is satisfied with nice halavā. So this is pravṛtti. Therefore it is said, pravṛtti lakṣaṇaś caiva traiguṇya viṣayo veda. Traiguṇya, according to modes of nature. One who is in the modes of goodness, his foodstuff is different from the person in the modes of ignorance. Therefore we find so many varieties of foodstuff, varieties of taste. This is all within this material world. It is not that... Sometimes this morning we were talking about vegetarian and nonvegetarian. Our mission is not to make a nonvegetarian a vegetarian. No. Our mission is that "Either you are vegetarian or nonvegetarian, it doesn't matter. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is our mission. To become vegetarian is not very good qualification. It is better than the nonvegetarian, but that is not the ultimate solution. The ultimate solution is when you become a lover of God. That is ultimate solution.

*So we are not preaching this vegetarianism. Just like there are Jains or many other religious system, Buddhism. They are after making people vegetarian. But the law of nature is that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is the law of nature. You will find even in the lower animals, they are eating one another. That is the law of nature. Ahastāni sahastānām apadāni catuṣ-padām. This is the law of nature. Ahastāni, one who has no hands, he is the food... They are all animals. The animal which has no hands... Just like goats and others: they have only legs. So they are food for the animals with hands. Ahastāni sahastānām. That is the law of nature. Apadāni catuṣ-padām. The animals which has no leg*-that means which cannot move... The plants, the grass, the trees, they cannot move. They have got leg, but they cannot move. Their legs are made for eating. As your mouth is made for eating, the trees... Therefore they are called pada-pa. They drink water by the leg. This is God's creation. You cannot think that how it is possible to drink water by the leg, but it is God's creation. You see. You pour water on the leg of the tree; it becomes very luxuriant, healthy. So different. And so far God is concerned, He can eat with legs; He can see with hands; *He can eat with eyes. That is God. That is God. Añgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti [Bs. 5.32]. Añgāni, that is transcendental. He is not under any rule. He is not under any rule. If you say, "Why Kṛṣṇa is eating by the eyes?" yes, that is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. If you offer something, Kṛṣṇa, simply by seeing, He is eating. That is Kṛṣṇa. And again if you say, "If He is eating, why the plate is full?" that is Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. Kṛṣṇa is not a hungry man like me, that "If you give Me something, I will eat everything, finished." No. Kṛṣṇa can take the whole plate; still it will remain the whole plate, for giving prasādam.

*So try to understand Kṛṣṇa in this way. And if you actually understand Kṛṣṇa, you are liberated immediately. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. How Kṛṣṇa eats, how Kṛṣṇa thinks, how Kṛṣṇa works, if you understand all these things, then immediately you become liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. You immediately become. The only thing is we are rotting in this material world because we do not know Kṛṣṇa. That is the... You'll not be admitted in the spiritual kingdom unless you know Kṛṣṇa, what He is. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you are fit-"Come on." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. And as soon as you go, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Everything is explained. And therefore Kṛṣṇa comes. We have got pravṛtti to enjoy this material world. Kṛṣṇa comes personally, that "This will not help you." He comes personally: "You give up this habit. You simply surrender to Me. I will take you back to home, back to Godhead." This is... Pravṛttir eṣāṁ bhūtānāṁ nivṛttes tu mahā*-phalam. We are inclined to enjoy this material world, but if we stop this material enjoyment, we are fit for spiritual life. That is the philosophy.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā.

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

aprāpya māṁ nivartante

*mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani

[Bg. 9.3]



*Aśraddadhānāḥ. What Kṛṣṇa is speaking in the Bhagavad*-gītā, if we take it, "Let Kṛṣṇa speak. I am not going to accept anything..." Aśraddadhānāḥ: there is no faith in the words of Kṛṣṇa. Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣa dharmasyāsya: "The religious system which I am speaking." What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66], this religion. So if one is neglectful, does not like this proposal, then what is the result? Aprāpya mām: "He'll never get Me." Aprāpya mām nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Then he will have to continue this process, mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani. He'll take birth, again die, again take birth, again die. That will continue. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. So,



*pravṛtti*-lakṣaṇaś caiva

*traiguṇya*-viṣayo mune

*yo 'sāv alīna*-prakṛter

*guṇa*-sargaḥ punaḥ punaḥ



So we have to give up this habit that "I am master. I can enjoy, and I can do. I am independent." You have to give up this habit. Then you will be eligible for going back to home, back to Godhead.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





750522SB.MEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.3

-

Melbourne, May 22, 1975



*Prabhupāda: So, we were discussing last night about nivṛtti*-mārga, the opposite direction of progressing towards hellish condition of life, that by nature's own way the living entity comes to the human form of body by the evolutionary process. That we have already discussed. There are 900,000's forms in the water. Then there are two millions forms of trees, plants. And jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Then insects, moths and flies, like that, they are 1,100,000 forms. Then birds, one millions forms. Then beast three million forms. And then human being, civilized or not civilized, there are 400,000. This is the total number of different forms of life. The living entity, spirit soul, is the same, but they are passing through different forms of life. Just like I am the same man. I have passed through my babyhood body, my childhood body, my youthhood body. Now I have come to another body. So it is a fact that I was staying in a baby's body. Now it is another body. A very simple thing, that we are changing body, but I am, the soul, the same. We have to understand this thing. The evolution is going on.



Now, by nature's law the evolution brings you to a nice body, civilized human body, with higher consciousness. But if we utilize this higher consciousness simply for constructing very high skyscraper buildings and do not know what form of body I am going to accept next, that is not very good intelligence. My business is that by nature's evolutionary process I have come to this human form of life. Now I have got good intelligence, better than the animals. If I utilize that intelligence for simply having nice motorcar and skyscraper building, but I do not know what is my future, then it is not very good intelligence. You can construct a very nice skyscraper building, and you can have a nice car, but you will not be allowed to stay here. What you have done for that? You will be kicked out at any moment. Then your all labor is simply... You can solace yourself that "My children will enjoy" or "My grandsons will enjoy." But why not enjoy yourself? That is very uncertain. Any moment I shall be kicked out. And then, if it is a fact that I am going to accept another body, there is no guarantee what kind of body I am going to accept. I have constructed a skyscraper building on account of my attachment. I may be allowed by the nature's law to stay in that building, but if by my activities I become a rat or cat in that building, then what is the profit? We are under the nature's law. You cannot say that you are independent. Nature's law is very strict. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Nature's law... Just like fire. If you touch fire, it will burn. And even a child who is innocent, if the child touches the fire, it will burn. There is no excuse. You cannot say that "The child is innocent. It does not know the effect of touching fire, so he should be excused." No. Ignorance is no excuse. Especially... That is the state laws. You cannot say... Suppose you have committed some criminal act. If you plead, "My lord, I did not know that the, after doing this act, I had to suffer imprisonment. So you excuse me," no, that will be no excuse. You know or not know the law, if you have acted like that, you must suffer. This is going on.

*So we don't believe in the next life just to avoid this consequence. But that will not excuse us. We have to accept a type of body. Otherwise how there are so many different types of bodies? What is the explanation? Why different forms of body, different stages of body, different standard of body? That is nature's law. Therefore this human form of life should be properly utilized, not simply engaged in sense gratification like cats and dogs. That is not very responsible life. Responsible life is that "I have got this improved form of life than the cats and dogs, and I have got more intelligence than the cats and dogs. If I simply utilize it for four bodily necessities of life..." Four bodily necessities of life means we require some eating. The cats, dogs, human being, or high-court judge, or anyone*-they require some eating. They require sleeping, apartment. So that is... The cats and dogs can sleep without apartment, but the sleeping required. That is fact. Eating required, that is fact. And sex life, that is also fact. And defense, that is also fact. But these things are common to the cats and dogs and man, human being. So what is the special feature of the human being? The special feature of the human being is that a human being can consider that "I have got this nice American or Australian or Indian body. Then what I am going to get next? What kind of body?" That is utilized for human intelligence. A cat and dog cannot think like that. Therefore our business should be: "Now, by the nature's way, I have come to this form of life by evolutionary process. Now I have got good intelligence. How I shall utilize it?" That proper utilization is indicated in the Vedānta philosophy. Vedānta philosophy, perhaps you have heard the name. Veda means knowledge, and anta means last stage or end. Everything has got some end. So you are being educated, you are taking education. Where you shall end? That is called Vedānta. Where the ultimate point.

*So Vedānta philosophy says I... That is Vedānta philosophy, ultimate knowledge. The ultimate knowledge, that is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, what is that ultimate knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. You are cultivating knowledge. "The ultimate goal of knowledge," Kṛṣṇa says, "is to know Me." Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. The whole knowledge is meant for understanding God. That is the end of knowledge. By progressive knowledge you can make progress, but unless you do come to the point to understand what is God, then your knowledge is imperfect. That is called Vedānta. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life, nice facility, intelligence... Just like Australia was undeveloped. Since the Europeans came here, it is now very developed, resourceful, because the intelligence has been utilized. Similarly, America, many other places. So this intelligence should be utilized. But if we simply utilize this intelligence for the same purpose as the cats and dogs are engaged, then it is not proper utilization. The proper utilization is Vedānta. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now you should inquire about Brahman, the Absolute." That is intelligence.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, as I have repeatedly said, it is that culture. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "What is the ultimate aim of life, ultimate goal of life?" Because I am eternal. I am simply changing body. Na jāyate na mriyate va kadācit. Kadācit means at any time the ātmā, the soul, is never born, na jāyate, the living soul. Na jāyate. Na jāyate means never born. "But I see. My child is born." No, that you see, the body of the child, not the child as soul. That is knowledge. That is called brahma*-jñāna, that "This body... I am not this body; *I am spirit soul." Then the inquiry will be "Then wherefrom the spirit soul has come?" That should be the inquiry. "And why, if I am eternal, then why I am put to this condition of repetition of birth and death?" These are inquiries. This is called brahma*-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means inquiry about the spirit soul. That is brahma-jijñāsā. So in this way we should utilize our intelligence, life, not simply for these bodily comforts of life, no. That bodily comforts of life even the dogs and hogs they are also seeking. They are also seeking. Then what is the difference between dogs, hogs, and myself? Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This is the warning given by Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. "My dear sons, don't spoil your life working very hard like the dogs and hogs just to satisfy your senses." This is the instruction. We are being taught at the modern age that "Work very hard and enjoy your senses." This is the modern civilization. "Get money some way or other, and spend it for sense gratification." That is the goal. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They are not taught, they are not educated, that what is the end of life, goal of life. That is God realization. They do not know it. Na te viduḥ. "They do not know it." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Everyone is self-interested. Everyone is looking after his self-interest. That's good, very good. But do you know what is your self-interest? That they do not know. Somebody is thinking, "My self-interest is this"; *somebody is thinking, "My self*-interest is this," and therefore there is collision, strife, fight. But actually, the self-interest is one for the..., at least for the human being. What is that? Realization of God. It is equally important for the Americans; it is equally important for the Indians; *equally important for every living being, especially for the civilized man. This is self*-interest. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is that Absolute Truth? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That should be our first business. Of course, we require a living place and eating materials and sex arrangement or defense arrangement. That is required. You do that. But don't forget your main business. Then you are cats and dogs. Your main business is God realization.

*Therefore śāstra says that ayaṁ dehaḥ. Dehaḥ means this body, ayam means "this." What is this body? Now, nāyaṁ dehaḥ deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha-bhājām, deha-bhājām, one who has got this material body... Everyone, all living entities, either a cat, dog or human being, everyone has got this material body. If you analyze the body of a dog and your body, you will find the same ingredients*-the same blood, the same skin, the same mucus, the same bone, the same urine, same stool. That is bodily construction. So bodily construction is the same. There is no difference. From chemical point of view, from physical point of view, the same thing. Just like the biologist. They study the human body by dissecting, the frog's body. They say, the biologists say, that there is similarity of anatomical construction of the frogs and the human body. Anyway, we also accept that because, after all, it is this material body. So the arrangement in the frog's body and in the dog's body or in the human body it must be the same material. So then what is the advantage of this human body? That is instructed, ayaṁ deha: "This body, this particular type of body, human body, is not meant for the purpose, serving the cats and dogs." Nāyaṁ dehaḥ deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means in the human society. Nṛ means human being. So human society, when you have got this nice body, you should not utilize this body for the same business as the cats and dogs and hogs are utilizing.

*How the hogs are...? Especially this animal has been... Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān [SB 5.5.1]. Kaṣṭān kāmān means with hard labor to satisfy the four necessities of life. The four necessities of life I have already mentioned: eating, sleeping, sex life, and defense. This is bodily necessity. So the hog or the pig is trying to maintain his body. You have no experience. In India we have got experience. In the villages there are hogs. Day and night, they are loitering in the street, and when they find out some stool, they are very happy. Therefore this animal has been especially mentioned, that "Do you spoil your life like the hog, working day and night, night duty, work day duty and this duty, that duty, and what is the gain? You get some food which may not be very nice and eat it. And then you satisfy your sex." Is that life very perfect life? That is being done by the hogs. They are working day and night to find out where is stool. Stool is not very good food, but it is for them very good food. If you give, offer, the hog halavā, they will not accept it. They will accept stool. Just like Don't mind. We are offering such nice food. But people do not like. They will go to the restaurant and eat some rotten, one week passed, some meat preparation. They will like. I do not know, but I have heard it from my disciples. (laughter) When it is decomposed and rotten, it is tasteful. It is very tasteful, they say. I do not know. I have never taken meat in my life. So I do not know. So anyway, according to different position, the taste is also different. The hog taste is eat like stool. That means it can accept any damn foodstuff, even up to stool. That is hog's life. And human life? No, no, no. Why should you accept? You just have nice fruits, flowers, grains, and vegetables and prepared from milk product, and eat it. God has given you this. Why should you eat stool? This is human consciousness. So when better food is available, I must take the best food full of vitamins, full of taste, full of energy. Why should I take something else? No, that is human intelligence.

*Therefore our program is that we offer Kṛṣṇa the best foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me this foodstuff." What is that? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aṣnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. If you call a guest, you should ask him, "My dear friend, what can I offer you, you'll like to eat?" So if he says, "This thing, I shall be very much pleased," that is your duty to give him. Similarly, people may ask that "Why I cannot offer meat to Kṛṣṇa?" No, Kṛṣṇa does not say. Kṛṣṇa does not want it. Kṛṣṇa is mentioning in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "You give Me..." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: [Bg. 9.26] "You give Me vegetables, give Me fruits, give Me grain, give Me milk, nice water, nice flower, nice Tulasī." Tad aham aṣnāmi: "I eat that." Kṛṣṇa, or God, He can eat anything because He is God. He is all-powerful. But He is asking to the devotees, "Give Me these things." So we shall, we offer Kṛṣṇa these things and prepare varieties. That is our intelligence. You can make varieties. Just like one milk. You can prepare fifty different kinds of preparation from milk-at least. So many varieties. In New Vrindaban we are keeping cows. That is an example. And the cows are giving milk, delivering milk, double than other farmers. Why? Because the cows know that "These people will not kill me." They are not in anxiety. Suppose you are engaged in some work, and if you know that "After seven days, I will be killed," can you do the work very nicely? No. Similarly, the cows know in the Western countries that "These people giving me very nice grains and grass, but after all, they will kill me." So they are not happy. But if they are assured that "You'll not be killed," then they will give double milk, double milk. That is stated in the śāstra. During Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, the cows milk bag was so filled up that in the pasturing ground they were dropping, and the whole pasturing ground became moist, muddy with milk. The land used to be muddy with milk, not with water. That was the position. Therefore cow is so important that we can get nice food, the milk. Milk is required every morning. But what is this justice, that after taking milk from the animal and kill it? Is that very good justice? So it is very, very sinful, and we have to suffer for that. And they are stated in the śāstras that "If you do this sinful act, you will go to this kind of hell." There are description in the Fifth Canto.

*So pravṛtti*-mārga means if I do things according to my whims, that is called pravṛtti-mārga. Then the next life is waiting for my suffering. That is fact. Just like if you irresponsibly live and there is epidemic and you contact some disease, infection, then you must suffer from it. There is no excuse. So we are acting in this life, in this material world as it is stated here, traiguṇya-viṣayo mune Pravṛtti-lakṣaṇaś caiva traiguṇya-viṣayo mune. Our desires According to the modes of material nature, we are associating. Just like in the temple, in this temple. Here everything is on the modes of goodness. So if you associate with this temple atmosphere, your behavior, your mode of life, will be different. And if you associate with the atmosphere of a brothel, a slaughterhouse, then your atmosphere will be different. That means infection. Association means infection. If we infect tamo-guṇa, then your life is different. And if you infect the rajo-guṇa, then your life is different. Therefore there are varieties of life. Why there are varieties of life? Because we have infected different varieties of infection. There are three kinds of infection originally: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, just like originally there are three colors: red, yellow, and blue. Now, you mix up these three colors. Three into three, it becomes nine, and nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. So those who are expert color mixer, they make varieties of color originally from these three color. Similarly, originally there are three kinds of material modes of nature: goodness, passion, and ignorance. Now mix it. It become nine, and again nine into nine, Therefore there are 8,400,000 forms of life on account of this mixture.

*So people do not care to understand how nature's law is going on. Nature's law means God's law. Nature is not independent. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Nature is a machine. So do you think a machine works without an operator? Do you think? Is there any evidence? Now, this is a machine, photography, a wonderful machine. It is taking the picture, and it will move. But there is an operator. Where is the machine which is working without operator? Can you give any example, "Here is a machine which is working without operator"? So how do you think that the nature machine is working without the supreme operator, God's instruction. How do you think it? This is not very reasonable. We have to judge. There are different evidences. One of the evidence is hypothesis. That hypothesis is that "Because we see that no machine works without operator, therefore we should conclude it, even though we do not know what is God, what is the nature, we must conclude it that the nature is working under some supreme operator. That is God." It is not necessary to see the operator, but we can guess that there must be operator. So human life is meant for finding out who is there to operate. That is human life. Otherwise it cats' and dogs' life. They are eating, sleeping, mating, and dancing. That's all. That is not human life. You must find out who is the operator. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called, in Sanskrit word, "Now this human form of life is meant for inquiring about the supreme operator." Now, that supreme operator, Kṛṣṇa, is so kind. He is giving evidence in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Now here I am. Under My direction the prakṛti, the nature, material nature, is working." So you accept. Then your business is done. And Kṛṣṇa give evidences how He is controlling the nature. When Kṛṣṇa was seven years old, He lifted one big mountain on His finger. That means the Our understanding is that there is law of gravitation. By law of gravitation, such a big mountain, it cannot stay in one man's finger. That is our calculation. But He did it. That means He counteracted the law of gravitation. That is God. So if you believe this, then you know God immediately. There is no difficulty. Just like if the child is warned, "My dear child, do not touch fire. It will burn you." So if the child accepts, then he gets the perfect knowledge immediately. If the child does not accept, he wants to make experiment, then he will burn his finger.

*So our process of knowledge*-you should take from the supreme authority. Then we save time for research work. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We take perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. I may be imperfect. Just like child is imperfect, so I may be imperfect, you may be imperfect, but if you take the perfect knowledge from the supreme perfect, then your knowledge is perfect. That is the process. This is called avaroha-panthā, knowledge coming, deductive knowledge. So everything is there, and if you like to take advantage of this movement and make your life perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead, then fully utilize this center, our Melbourne center. Come here, read our books, and argue. Try to understand with your full knowledge, no blindly acceptance. There is reason. There is argument. There is philosophy. There is science. Everything is there. And if you accept that "Simply by chanting, I shall realize," that is also allowed. Both ways: if you accept this simple process, that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize God," that is also fact, and if you think, "What is this nonsense, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" then you read books. Both ways we are prepared. Come and take advantage of this movement.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

Madhudvīṣa: His Divine Grace will be flying out of Australia tomorrow at 1:45 p.m., flying back to Hawaii by way of Fiji, where he will be stopping off for a couple of days. But our spiritual master will be coming tomorrow morning to greet the Deities, and everybody can have their last opportunity to have his darshan at that time. And it is good news that he has promised to return again in January...



Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! Hari bol!



Madhudvīṣa: ...for a more extended stay. So at this time, if there is any questions, you can take the last opportunity to present questions to his Divine Grace for some time. Yes?



Devotee (1): Being..., everybody being influenced by different desires, different intentions and desires, each individual's sādhana is something different?



Madhudvīṣa: Being influenced by different degrees of desires, would that influence each person's faith?



*Prabhupāda: No. It may be faith. Just like different kinds of disease. You infect one kind of, I mean to say, infection. You suffer in that disease. So it is due to... Different desire means different types of association. We are, therefore, recommending that you associate with us. Then there will be one desire, how to understand God, that's all. That is wanted. The bhakti means sarvopādhi... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Anyābhilāṣa, other desires, other material desires, when we give up and only desire to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is our perfection. This has to be learned. We have got certainly many desires according to infection and association. But when we agree to give up all these desire... Desire must be there. If there is no desire, then you are a dead stone. Desire must be there. Any living being, he must have desires. Otherwise how he is living? He is dead stone. So desire must be there. But is should be proper desire. The proper desire is... Because we are part and parcel of God, so our desire should be how to meet Him again and work with Him conjointly. That should be the only desire. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa comes, He orders, or He commands, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other desires. Simply desire how to surrender unto Me." This is required. And that can be understood by the human being. And because we have got different desires... I have already explained. Different qualities of the material nature, that mixed up, it comes to eighty-one. So therefore we have got... According to desires, we have got so many varieties of bodies. So we have to learn how to stop all these material desires and simply concentrate our desires how to serve Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is required. That is the training. Just like these boys, these girls, who are in the Kṛṣṇa conscious..., they have no other desire. Their only desire is how to push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That's all. It is possible. They had many desires. They are also coming from your country. They had many desires. But they have no other desire now. Their simply desire is how to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfection. When you stick to this one desire, that "I shall serve Kṛṣṇa," then you are free from all desires; otherwise not. Otherwise it is impossible. Then desires will drag you to different types of body. Then your suffering will increase. Then we have to come to the body of a pig. Because nature's law is very strict. According to your desire, he will give you body. So you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa. You will get a body like Kṛṣṇa, That's all.



Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when it is cited in the scriptures that Lord Brahmā rides on a swan, a haṁsa, is this, are we to take this to mean it is a real swan, or is it something symbolic?



Prabhupāda: Not symbolic, it is fact. Why do you say symbolic?



Devotee (2): It's rather unusual.



*Prabhupāda: Unusual, what experience you have got? You have no experience. Have you got any experience of other planetary system, what is there? Then? Your experience is very teeny. So you should not calculate Brahma's life and other things by your teeny experience. Now, in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that the duration of life of Brahma, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ... [Bg. 8.17]. Now, Brahma's life, it is stated in the śāstras. We have already explained that we accept the authoritative statement of śāstra. Now, Brahma's life is stated there. Arhat means his one day is equal to our four yugas. Four yugas means 4,300,000 years, and multiply it by one thousand, sahasra-yuga-paryantam. Sahasra means one thousand. And yuga, yuga means the 4,300,000 years makes a yuga. And multiply it by one thousand: that period is Brahma's one day. Similarly, he has got one night. Similarly, he has got one month. Similarly, he has got one year. And such hundred years he will live. So how you can calculate? How it is within your experience? You will think something mysterious. No. Your experience is nothing. Therefore you have to take experience from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. Then your knowledge is perfect. That I have already said. Don't try to understand with your teeny experience everything. Then you will be failure.



Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, are all one's efforts to serve Kṛṣṇa virtually useless...?



Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that you are coming here. Even though you are not initiated, that is also service. So if you deposit one cent daily, one day it may become a hundred dollars. So when you get the hundred dollars, you can get the business. (laughter) So you come here daily, one cent, one cent... When it will be hundred dollars, you will become a devotee.



Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol!



*Prabhupāda: So this is not wasted. It is... That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. Kṛta-puṇya. Kṛta means done. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing when Kṛṣṇa was playing with His cowherd boys friends, so he was describing that "These cowherd boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, they have not come to this position in one day." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After life after life, having performed pious activities, now they have come to this position that they are allowed to play with the Supreme." So kṛta-puṇyaḥ-puñjāḥ. Any pious activities done for the sake of Kṛṣṇa, that is your permanent asset. It will never be lost. So go on increasing the asset. One day it will so help you that you will be able to play with Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Devotee (4): How can you convince somebody who...



Prabhupāda: First of all. You are devotee. He is not.



Guest (1): There are different or many spiritual movements in the world. How can I know which one is right for me?



Prabhupāda: It is very easy. Spiritual movement means to understand God. Any spiritual movement you adopt, if you understand God, then it is all right. Otherwise it is a bogus. If you understand God... You take any movement. If you think everyone is spiritual movement, all right, you take it. Then, if you come to understand, "Now I have understood God," then that is all right. Otherwise bogus.



Guest (1): I have no experience, so...



Prabhupāda: That is the experience. Just like if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. And without eating, how you will feel satisfaction? So if you follow spiritual movement, then you will understand God. That is the result. And if you think that you are following some spiritual movement but you do not know what is God, that means you are following some bogus thing. That is the test. It hasn't got to be certified. You can know. Just like if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. You haven't got to take certificate from others. Do you think I am eating? You can say. If you understand fully God, then that is spiritual movement. If you do not understand, then you must know that you are following some bogus movement. This is the test.



Guest (1): There are different cards...



Prabhupāda: I say different, may be hundreds, but it is up to you to test whether you have understood God. That is the test, real test. Yes?



Guest (2): How do you convince a person who says..., that they are suffering, when they're actually, when they're saying they are happy and not afraid to die?



Madhudvīṣa: Someone who is not afraid to die and says that he's not suffering, how do...



Prabhupāda: He is a madman. (laughter) That's all. Who is caring for madman's word?



Devotee (5): It's very easy to convince some people that they're not their bodies, but it's not very easy to convince them that they're not their minds. Is there some way we can...



Prabhupāda: That will take time. How can you expect that in one minute everyone will understand everything? It requires education, time. If he is prepared to give the time, then he will understand, not that within five minutes, ten minutes, he will understand the whole thing. That is not possible. He is a diseased man. He requires treatment, medicine, and diet. In this way he will understand. A diseased man, if he doesn't care for medicine, diet, then he will suffer. That's all. Yes? Anyone? No?



Devotee (6): If we've been here lifetime after lifetime performing impious activities, does it mean that we have to be here lifetime after lifetime performing pious activities to balance out our sinful reactions?



Madhudvīṣa: We have been here for many lifetimes performing sinful activities. So is it possible to counteract all those sinful activities in one lifetime, or does it require many...?



*Prabhupāda: One minute. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. One minute. You are not reading Bhagavad*-gītā? What Kṛṣṇa says? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: [Bg. 18.66] "You surrender unto Me. Give up your all business. I will give you relief from all sinful reaction immediately." So it requires one minute. "My dear Kṛṣṇa, I was forgotten. Now I understand. I fully surrender unto you." Then you become immediately free from all sinful reactions. Without any reservation, without any politics, if you fully surrender, Kṛṣṇa is assuring, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. He reassures, "Don't worry whether I will be able to give you relief from all reaction." Mā śucaḥ. "Finished, guaranteed. You do this." So how much time it requires to surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Immediately you can do that. Surrender means you surrender and work as Kṛṣṇa says. That is surrender. What Kṛṣṇa says to do? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things: "You always think of Me, and you become My devotee, you worship Me, and offer your respect, full obeisances unto Me." You do these four things? That is full surrender. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśaya: "Then you come to Me without any doubt." Everything is there. Kṛṣṇa has given everything fully. If you accept it, then life is very simple. There is no difficulty. Yes?



Devotee (7): How long do you say it is before Kṛṣṇa comes to this planet again in His physical, in human form?



Prabhupāda: Now calculate, I have already given the duration of one day, twelve hours, of Brahmā means 4,300,000 years multiplied by one thousand. What it comes? 4,300,000 years multiplied by one thousand.



Devotees: Four thousand, three hundred million.



Prabhupāda: No, no.



Paramahaṁsa: Four billion, three hundred million.



Prabhupāda: Oh, difference of opinion. (laughter)



Madhudviṣa: In Australia they calculate different. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Anyway, what is your Australian calculation? Let me know.



Madhudvīṣa: It's true. Their billion is something else.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Anyway, I give you the right figure, four million, according to American or English calculation, (laughter) 4,300,000 years and multiply it by one thousand. Then what it comes according to English calculation?



Paramahaṁsa: 4,300,000.



Prabhupāda: That is twelve hours. And add again twelve hours, night. Then eight billion...?



Paramahaṁsa: 600,000,000.



Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa comes after this period. (laughter) In one day, after one day of Brahma, He appears.



Devotee (8): Śrīla Prabhupāda, does Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu also appear every day of Brahma?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, following Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa comes in the Dvāpara*-yuga. There are four periods of each yuga: Sattva, Tretā, Dvāpara, Kali. So Kṛṣṇa comes at the end of Dvāpara-yuga, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu comes in the Kali-yuga. So almost about the same year, same circulation. Just like the sun appears after so many hours. It is like that. And the sun does not disappear. Sun is already there in the sky. It may not be in Australia's vision, but it may be in other country's vision. The sun is not dead. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa appears by rotation in this universe after so many years, eight billion and billion years. So next He goes to another universe. Just like the sun, after disappearance from Australia, it goes to another country. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, after finishing His business in this universe, He goes to another universe. In this way the rotation takes eight million, nine billion years. Just imagine how many universes are there. He stays in one universe for 125 years. Everything is there, calculation, in the śāstra. Now we can imagine how many universes are there. That is, altogether, material world. That is stated in the...



athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*This material creation is one*-fourth creation of the whole God's property. And the three-fourth part is in the spiritual world. That is God. Not that cheap God, "I am God," in this God. We don't accept such cheap God.



Devotee (9): Because you're here(?) and all the devotees here are your disciples, Śrīla Prabhupāda, eternal disciples, eternal servitors. But what if we have to take birth in the material world in the next life? How will we be able to render direct service unto you?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Even if you remain in the material... If you are not completed your spiritual life, still, you will get good birth. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga*-bhraṣṭoḥ sanjāyate: [Bg. 6.41] "One who is failure in completing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is given next chance in a very aristocratic family or very nice, pure brāhmaṇa's family so that he can again cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness next chance."



Devotee (9): Will that mean taking initiation from another guru, or will he remain your eternal servant?



Madhudvīṣa: His question was when we take initiation from you, we understand that we become your eternal servitors.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Madhudvīṣa: But if we have to come again to another birth...



*Prabhupāda: But if you remain eternally in the instruction... And if you fall from the instruction, how you can remain eternal? You have to stay on the platform. Then eternally you are safe. If you fall down from the platform, then it is your fault. Just like we are all in the Vaikuṇṭha planet. Now, we wanted to enjoy this material world. We have fallen down, just like Jaya*-Vijaya. Now we are trying to go back again. Therefore we say, "Go back to home, back to Godhead." So everything is... There is process. If you follow the process, then you go back. If you fall down, that is our fault. Therefore the life is meant for tapasya, that Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction, that our life should not be wasted like dogs and hogs and pigs. It should be utilized for tapasya, for understanding our position. Tapo putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva. This is the aim of life. We have to purify our existence. At the present moment our existence is impurified. Therefore we are subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. And as soon as we purify ourself, then we are not subjected to these four material laws. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





700103SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6

-

Los Angeles, January 3, 197



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)



*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi

[SB 6.1.6]



*Today we shall discuss a very nice historical event, the story-history or story, whatever you call*-of Ajāmila and his salvation. Before this chapter in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there has been a very elaborate description of different kinds of hellish punishment. So far the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is concerned, it contains the information of all other planets within this universe. So we get information of one planet which is about 800,000's of miles away from this planet. In that planet the Yamarāja or the personality or demigod who, I mean to say, tries the person who are very much sinful and gives him punishment... Just like here you have got the magistrate who tries the criminals and gives punishment according to the gravity of criminality, similarly there is no reason to disbelieve that in this vast kingdom of God, why there shall not be a magistrate like that? If in a small state, say this California state, there are so many magistrates, so many courts in different towns, and if you calculate, in comparison to this universe, what is this California state? You can see at night there are millions and billions of planets glittering in the sky, and this earthly planet is one of them. That's all. And in this earthly planet there are so many countries-America, Canada, United States, Mexico, India, China... There are so many countries, and there are so many cities. And each and every city, there are so many courts and magistrates. Just think that this planet is only a spot in comparison to the universal construction. So how we can think that there is no control, there is no government, everything has come out of its own course? This theory is foolish theory. There is controller. There is controller, and He is called Īśvara. Īśvara means God. There is management of God. It is very commonsense understanding.



*So about that description of that hellish planet has been described in the previous chapter. Now, you should always remember that this Bhāgavatam is being spoken by Śukadeva Gosvāmī to King Parīkṣit. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was to die within seven days, and he immediately left his kingdom and family and went to the bank of the Ganges, sat down there tightly without taking even a drop of water, simply with great seriousness he heard Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. And he got salvation, within seven days. There are nine different process of executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Several times I have described that nine processes. The first process is hearing. The second process is chanting. The third process is remembering, or meditating. The fourth process is serving the Lord. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. Pāda-sevanam means to serve the lotus feet of the Lord. Then arcanam. Arcanam means temple worship. Just like in this temple you see there is Deity, Kṛṣṇa's Arca-mūrti or Deity, or idol, whatever you call, and we are offering flowers and fruits and cooked foodstuff, whatever we can get by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. And we offer it, "Kṛṣṇa, You have kindly sent this foodstuff." This is acknowledgement. You cannot manufacture this nice fruit. It is not in your power. You may be very much expert in conducting a big factory for manufacturing these motorcars, but it is not possible for you to manufacture these nice grapes or oranges or banana or rice. No. That is not in your power. Therefore a sane man should admit that "This is sent by God." This is common sense. What is beyond your power... If you say it is product of nature... What do you mean by nature? Nature means an energy which is acting under the direction of God. That is nature. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Prakṛti means nature. Don't take that the nature is producing without the active cooperation of the Supreme Lord, puruṣa. Just like when a woman has got a child, produced a child, you must know that she had connection with a man, the puruṣa. So it is common sense.

So this offering of foodstuff to the Deity, Kṛṣṇa or God, is very nice. "My Lord, You have given me so nice foodstuff to eat; *so You first of all taste, and then we shall take." It is a gratitude. You haven't got even any gratitude to express. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. Anyone who does not offer foodstuff to the Personality of Godhead, he is thief. He is thief. And yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. And if you take foodstuff offered to the Deity, then you get rid of all sinful activities. Mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ and bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13]. Ātma-kāraṇāt means self satisfaction or sense gratification. We are eating. Everyone is eating; we are also eating. The difference is somebody is eating for sense gratification and somebody is eating for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. So if you simply acknowledge that "My dear Lord..." Just like a son, if he acknowledges the benefits derived from the father, how much the father is satisfied, "Oh, here is a very good son." The father is supplying everything, but if the son says, "My dear father, you are so kind to me that you are supplying such nice things. I thank you," the father becomes very much pleased. Father does not want that thanks, but it is natural. Father does not care for such thanks. His duty he is supplying. But if the son feels thankful for the father's benefit, the father is especially satisfied.

*Similarly God is the father. He is supplying us. In the Vedic mantra it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the supreme living entity amongst all living entities. He is singular number, nitya. And nityānām, plural number*-we are all plural number. We are also as living entity, as good living entity as Kṛṣṇa or God. God is also living entity, we are also living entity. Just like father and son. The father is also living entity and the son is also living entity. There is no difference so far living conditions are there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's sons, or God or God's sons. Now, in the Bible, Lord Jesus Christ is described as the son of God. Now, so far I have heard, that it is claimed that he is the only one son of God. Now according to Bhagavad-gītā, every living entity is son of God. Now how to adjust? If the Bible says that Lord Jesus Christ is the only one son, then how these so many innumerable sons can be adjusted? There is adjustment. There is very nice adjustment. One should know it. He is the only one son means one who can sacrifice his life for God, he is real son. And one who is simply taking from father, "Oh, God, give us our daily bread," and He is supplying and eating and enjoying sense enjoyement, he is not real son. The real son is he who sacrifices his life for glorifying his father. Similarly, anyone who will sacrifice his life... Of course, it is not required that everyone shall be crucified like Lord Jesus Christ, but he should sacrifice his energy for the Supreme Lord. And that person who has devoted his energy for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, he is called Kṛṣṇa conscious person.

We have got a limited, measured amount of energy throughout our life. We are not going to live forever, but we have got some energy by which we can create so many things. Everyone is coming as a small child. As he grows up, by his energy he is becoming Ford, he is becoming Rockefeller, he is becoming Carnegie, or in our country just like Birla, so many things. It is simply energy. One has got sufficient energy, intelligence, he is utilizing, he is becoming Rockefeller, Ford, or Birla, or something like that. Another man, he has got energy, he cannot utilize his energy. He remains a poor man, a loafer class. It is all question of energy. So, so long we have got this energy in our control, that means so long we live, we have got a certain amount of..., that should be employed for Kṛṣṇa, for God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean anything wonderful. It is not... A very simple thing. Simply you have to employ your energy for Kṛṣṇa. That is expected by Kṛṣṇa. And what will be the result? The result will be, at least individually you shall be peaceful, you shall be happy. If everyone becomes like that, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or everyone tries to apply his energy for the service of the Lord, then this world becomes kingdom of God actually.

*But that is not possible. Here there is another opposing element, which is called māyā, or Satan, who is acting against this principle. So we cannot expect that cent percent people will be God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible because here in this material world... This material world means it is a place where māyā is predominant. Māyā is predominant means the forgetfulness of God is predominant. Māyā means nothing. Māyā is not a ghost. Māyā is a condition of consciousness. That's all. When you forget God, or Kṛṣṇa, that is called māyā. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is very nicely explained in the Seventh Chapter that daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā: [Bg. 7.14] "The influence of māyā is so strong that it is very difficult to surmount." Yes. Māyā is energy of God also. So as your energy can produce so much wonderful thing, why not Kṛṣṇa's energy, or God's energy, is very strong? Yes. It is very strong. Just like you are also energy, but why you are not strong? Just like when you are criminal, when you are in the custody of police energy of the government, you are weaker. You are all the, one of the energies of this government. The whole population is the energy of the government, producing. This is an example. But one energy is civil population, another energy is criminal population, and another energy, the government. So the criminal population means against the principles of government. And civil population means law-abiding principle of government. And the law order energy means to punish the criminals.

*So this māyā is law*-and-order energy of God. And we, those who have come to this material world, we are all criminal energy now. We are not actually criminal. Just like a man born is not criminal, but by association he becomes a criminal, or by association he becomes a godly man. It is a question of association. Similarly, the spirit soul, as son of God, he is pure. He is as pure as anything. As God is pure, similarly the son of God is also pure. But as soon as he forgets God and wants to become free, or wants to become imitation God... Here in this material world everyone is trying to become an imitation God. God is one. God cannot be two. But here the struggle for existence means that these, I mean to say, living entities who are put into this material world, every one of them is trying to become an imitation God. Therefore there is struggle. I am trying to... Either collectively or individually, everyone is trying to become a certain type of God. What is that God? God means, I have several times explained that God means the richest man, the richest, famous man, the most famous man, the strongest man, the beautiful man, the learned man, and the renounced man. You just find out who is God. That is defined in the Vedic literature, that the person who has got the utmost opulence, utmost strength, utmost beauty, utmost knowledge, and utmost renunciation, He is God. This is the definition of God. You can find out some rich man, but you cannot find out the richest man. Every day you will find so many competitors. So as soon as you find the richest man, nobody can surpass him, then he is God. So these are some of the examples.

*So it is to be understood that all living entities who have come to this material existence... This material existence means this is a life which is not permanent. Why it is not permanent? It is not permanent for this reason: that we are given a chance. This material manifestation, creation of this material world, and let loose the living entities. These are all statement in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Mama yonir mahad-brahma tasmin garbhaṁ dadāmy aham. The history of creation, as we learn from the Vedic literature, that after creation of this material world, the living entities are impregnated... Just like a man constructs a nice house or takes a very nice apartment and begets children in the womb of his wife, similarly, the material nature is the mother, and the father is God, and we are all children. These are the Vedic literature description. So who are these children? These children are all criminals. All criminals. Beginning from Brahma, the highest living creature, down to the ant, a small insignificant ant, more or less, we are criminals, and we are suffering the consequences. We cannot deny. If we are sincere, if we actually believe in the śāstras, in the Vedic literature, then our sufferings are due to our mischievous activities.

So according to the mischievous activities, there are different kinds of suffering and there are different kinds of species of life. But māyā, the spell of māyā is so strong that one cannot understand that he is suffering. We understand that we are trying to be happy. Actually, this material world, there is no happiness, but to counteract the agency of distress, we accept, "That is happiness. That is happiness." Just like I have no apartment, but to counteract this inconvenience, if I try my utmost to get a good apartment I feel, "Oh, now I am happy. I am happy." What is this happiness? How long you shall remain in this apartment? Suppose you have got, purchased, now long you will live? So here happiness means to counteract the force of distress is called happiness. Actually there is no happiness. This is called māyā. Just like I am in distressed condition, puzzled, I take some intoxication. This is called happiness. I remain in the same condition. After my intoxication is over, I come back again into the same condition, but I am thinking (I am) happy. This is called māyā. Māyā means... Ma means "not," yā means "this." "You are thinking like this, but it is not this." This is called māyā. You are thinking that you are happy, but you are not happy. So we are seeing that a criminal is arrested by the police and he is put into the prisonhouse. We know that he is put into trouble, but still, in spite of seeing that "This kind of criminality will put me also into such kind of distress," but still, I commit that thing. This is the influence of māyā. This is the influence of māyā.

*So these all description of hellish description has been given in the previous chapter. Now, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he is a Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava, Vaiṣṇava feeling... Vaiṣṇava means he is always feeling for the distress of the others. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. What is the necessity of being crucified? Because he was a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means the servant of God or the devotee of God, Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇu means Lord, and Vaiṣṇava means one who is devotee of Viṣṇu, he is called Vaiṣṇava. Godly. Godly person. Vaiṣṇava means godly person. So every godly person, he thinks for others. "Oh, people are suffering for want of knowledge, for want of God consciousness, for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Oh, let me do some service. Let me enlighten them so that they may be happy." Therefore we offer our obeisances to the Vaiṣṇavas: vāñchā*-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. Vāñchā-kalpa-taru means that "My dear devotee, you are just like a desire tree. Whatever I desire from you, you fulfill." Vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. Kṛpā means mercy. "You are the ocean of mercy." And patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo, "And you are deliverer of the fallen souls. Therefore I offer my obeisances unto you." It is very nice to offer respect to a godly person. Is described very nicely. Why? Now, patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. A godly person's business is to reclaim the fallen souls. They cannot see... A godly person sees that "Here is my brother. He is son of God. I am son of God. Without enlightenment, without knowledge of God, he is suffering. So let me give him some knowledge of God." This is godly person's business. He has no other business. He has no business to find out where to eat, where to sleep. Oh, that God provides for him. If God can provide food and shelter for cats and dogs, do you think God will not provide food and shelter for His confidential devotee? Is God so blind or ingratitude or unable? If He is able to feed innumerable living entities within this universe, does it mean that one who has sacrificed his life for God's service, he will starve? No. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ pranaśyati: [Bg. 9.31] "My dear Kaunteya, Arjuna, you declare it to the world that My devotee will never be vanquished." Never be vanquished. Another place it is said, teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: [Bg. 9.22] "Those who are constantly engaged in My service, for them, I personally carry all the necessities to his home." So rest assured that if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you become God conscious, there will be no scarcity of happiness. Don't think that "If I devote my life only for Kṛṣṇa consciousness I will be starving." No. So this enlightenment is given by godly persons.

So here Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was very godly person. He was so great devotee that there is no comparison. He is... So he is asking, after hearing the hellish punishment of the criminals, he is asking,

*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi



*He is addressing Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He has accepted Śukadeva Gosvāmī as his spiritual master. Therefore he says, mahā*-bhāga, "the most fortunate man." You have to select a spiritual master, the most fortunate man. And who is most fortunate man? One who has understood Kṛṣṇa, he is most fortunate man. Not that one who has got dozens of motorcars, he is most fortunate man. You do not know where he is going after this body. You see? He may be enjoying very nicely in this life, but he is not preparing for the next life. This life is preparation for the next life. The modern civilization does not know that every living entity is eternal; *he is changing simply different phases of life. So if one is ignorant how he is changing his different phases of life, what is his next life, what he was in the past life... How one can know? One can know, śāstra*-cakṣuṣāt. One can know from the scriptures, from the authorized books, as you know so many things. How you know that the moon planet or sun planet or this planet or that planet have got so many things, this or that? It is from the books. You have never gone to the moon planet, but you learn it from the books, authorized books. Simply you have to consult authorized books, you get learned yourself.



*So the Vaiṣṇava, I mean to say, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was very much distressed when he heard about the hellish punishment of the criminals. So he's asking him, mahā*-bhāga, "My dear fortunate." He's asking Śukadeva Gosvāmī... Śukadeva Gosvāmī was naked. He was so renounced that after his birth, he left his home. And he was traveling, wandering, and when he met Mahārāja Parīkṣit he was only sixteen years old and naked, but he is accepted as the spiritual master of this great king because he was full of knowledge. It is a question of knowledge. It is not the question of age. He was only sixteen years old and he was not even properly dressed, but God kindly sent him for instructing this king. So he is asking, "Mahā-bhāga, can you explain how these suffering men can be delivered from this hellish suffering?" So he was feeling. This is the sentiment of Vaiṣṇava. They cannot see the suffering humanity. They always try to reform them and to get them as... Not only the devotees; *the Lord also, He is so compassionate He sends His son, His most confidential son, Jesus Christ. He comes Himself, He sends His incarnation, He sends His knowledge. Just like this Bhagavad*-gītā is knowledge. He speaks Himself about this knowledge. His representatives are there by disciplic succession. So we can take advantage of all these things. Still, there is Kṛṣṇa. Still there is speaking Kṛṣṇa and His representative, and everything is there. Simply we have to take advantage. That's all. But the spell of māyā is so strong that it does not allow.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



So if you know the secret of success, that is not very difficult. There it is... The statement is given by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself that "The spell of māyā is very strong undoubtedly. It is insurmountable. But if one is intelligently or one is intelligent enough and comes to My shelter, oh, there is no more spell of māyā."



So we have to become little intelligent to take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not very costly thing. You haven't got to pay for it, you haven't got to lose anything. But if you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa whenever you get opportunity... You have got so much opportunity. Instead of talking nonsense and wasting your time, if you please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, your life will be successful.

Thank you very much.

*Any question? [break] Yes. There are stages of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. According to time, circumstances, and people, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is understood in different measure. Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that one should understand that God is great and we are minute particles of God. Just like the sun globe and the sunshine. The sunshine is the combination of brilliant molecular atoms, sunshine. Similarly, we are molecular sparks, spiritual sparks, but the quality of the molecule of the sunshine and the sun is the same*-light. Similarly, we, although very minute particle of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but qualitatively we are one. Quantitatively we are different. So if one understands that we are small particles of the Supreme Lord and our business is to dovetail our consciousness with His consciousness, that is perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But it is not very easy also at the same time. To immediately accept that "My consciousness may be dovetailed with Kṛṣṇa's consciousness," then I become almost like Kṛṣṇa. The example I have given here in this class many times, that a car, motorcar, is running at seventy miles speed, but if a cyclist catches the motorcar, he can also run on the same speed. So although the cyclist is small... Similarly, although we are small particle... Just like in the fire, these sparks, the particle sparks, we can see they are very small in comparison to the fire, but when the fire and the sparks are together, everything is beautiful. Everything is beautiful. The sparks also looks very beautiful, and the fire also looks very beautiful. So God has become many. Eko bahu syāma. Why? Because as it is stated in the Vedānta-sūtra, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). He is by nature ānandamaya, joyful. (end)



701106SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6

-

Bombay, November 6, 197



Prabhupāda:



*...mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraā

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi

[SB 6.1.6]



*There was topics of the different hellish conditions of life according to different sinful activities. There is description in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto, the different planetary systems of this universe, how each and every planet is different from the other by its atmosphere, by its inhabitants, dealings. Just like modern scientists, they are finding difference between this planet and the moon planet. They say that there is no living entity. That is not fact. They... Even though they have reached the moon planet, it is not a fact that there is no living entity. Accepting they reached the moon planet, they might have gone to the part where it is desert or barren land, because in each and every planet there is such possibility. In our, this planet also, when I was passing through the Suez Canal, it is horrible desert. So if somebody drops in that Arabian desert and concludes that there is no living entity in this planet, it is simply foolish. Similarly, these people are going, maybe going... First of all, I don't believe they have gone, frankly speaking. Even they have gone, they are landing in some part of the moon planet where there is no inhabitation.



*But there are different kinds of planets. That we get from Vedic literatures. Vibhūti-bhinnam. Bhinnam means different, and vibhūti means opulence. Every planet has got special opulence. Just like the moon planet. It is shining. It has got a special opulence*-it is shining. The sun planet is so hot and so brilliant. Similarly, each and every planet, either small or big, they have got a particular type of opulence. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Vibhūti-bhinnam. In this planet also, different places have got different opulence. Just like in India you will find throughout the whole year brilliant sunshine, and in Western countries, in London, hellish-always moist, raining, and cloudy. You cannot distinguish whether it is night or day. In our... Now I was in London. When I was, I think, last year, in this time, December, the morning was at ten o'clock, and the evening was at three o'clock. So how many hours from ten to three?

Devotee (1): Five.



*Prabhupāda: Five hours day. And nineteen hours night. So, of course, I was rising, as usual, early in the morning, so I wanted to go out. So I couldn't go out before half*-past-nine to the Regent Park, and it was full of snow and ice, and it is very difficult to walk. So just like in this planet there are different places of different conditions, so it is natural to accept it that different planets have got different atmosphere, different opulences, different kinds of population, living entities. Keśava tuyā jagat vicitra. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung that "My dear Kṛṣṇa, Your creation is variegated." There are different types. Similarly, there are planets where hellish conditions perpetually continue. Just like you can compare the northern pole. It is a hellish condition within this earth. And similarly, there are planets, so, and they are suffering. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired that



*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraā

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi



"You have described 'For this kind of sinful activities one has to take his birth in this kind of planet or this kind of place.' Now please let me know how these suffering living entities can be delivered from this suffering condition, different varieties of suffering condition." Ugra. Ugra means very acute. "If there is any means to deliver them?" So that answer is given.



na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāmhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ



So, "My dear king, one has to suffer. This is the law of karma. According to the volume of sinful activity, one has to accept the reaction. There is no other alternative." Tasmāt, "therefore,"



*...puraivaṣv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau

yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā

*doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā

bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit

[SB 6.1.8]



*Just like you are suffering from some disease. So according to the nature of the disease, you have to pay for its medicine. One who is suffering from malarial disease, tuberculosis disease, asthmatic tendency, these disease are considered very severe type of disease. Coughing or having some little fever, they are not very severe. But there are many severe diseases. So as you pay to the specialist doctor or you pay for the medicine according to the severity of disease, similarly-yasmād evaṁ tasmād pāpasya niṣkṛtau prayaścitte yateta*-you have to make treatment. And according to the symptoms of the disease, you have to undergo treatment. That is called prāyaścitta.



*Just like if a man who has committed murder... His prāyaścitta is that he should be hanged. This is prāyaścitta, life for life. That is Manu*-saṁhitā. This hanging a condemned person, a murderer, is a mercy to him. That is stated in the Manu-saṁhitā. People are becoming now sympathetic that "Whatever is done is done. Let this man be saved." This kind of sympathy is no good. People are taking sympathy. A man suffering from certain disease or certain miserable condition. They want to ameliorate it. This kind of sympathy is not sanctioned. He should suffer so that the reaction of his sinful activities in the past life should be diminished. If he does not suffer, then he will have to suffer more, continue, because he is condemned to suffer so much. If you minimize it now, that does not mean he will not suffer. He will suffer next life. Just like a man is imprisoned, and if your friend or relative is imprisoned, by somehow or other you get him released by hook and crook, so when you are again captured you are again severely punished, both the men. Is it not the law? So how can you give relief to the suffering person who is condemned? If in your state law a man suffering in the prison and if you feel sympathy or you may try to give him release and get him out by some hook and crook means, then both of you will be punished. Is it not? So how can you avoid the punishment by God's law?

*So this kind of sympathy, just like this Rāmakrishna Mission daridra*-nārāyaṇa sevā, under the plea of accepting this suffering humanity as Nārāyaṇa and appealing to the compassion of the people... Although they cannot do anything. Actually they are not doing anything but this philosophy is a rubbish philosophy. You cannot do. If you can do anything good to the people, then you can simply awaken them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the best service. Other service you cannot do. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni-baddhāḥ. Just like by any means you cannot get released a man who is condemned in the prison. Against law. However sympathetic you may be to your friend, but you cannot release him. That is against law. Similarly, people are suffering, undoubtedly, but they have to undergo the prāyaścitta process. In the śāstras there are prāyaścitta process. Formerly, even our childhood days, we have seen in Calcutta, there is a special quarter of the bhaṭṭācārya brāhmaṇas. The bhaṭṭācārya brāhmaṇas' business is that if you have committed some sinful act, you should immediately go and consult the bhattācārya: "What is the process of prāyaścitta?" Just like you go in case of disease, consult a physician, and take his prescription and diagnosis, similarly, that was the Vedic system.

*You have read in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that one Buddhimanta Khan, he was formerly... He was very rich man and Nawab Hussain Shah was the servant when he was not Nawab. So he was menial servant. So he stole some money as servants are generally habituated. So he whipped him with his cane. So that whipping stripe was on his back side. When he was Nawab, so his wife saw it and inquired, "What is this scar?" So he replied the whole story, that "I was formerly a menial servant to this Buddhimanta Khan and I did something wrong. So as my father, he punished me. That's all. He was treating me as my son." So he admitted that he was so kind. But his wife said, "Oh, this scar is a defamation. If somebody sees and you explain, then it will be known that you were a menial servant previously." So the Nawab did not mind. He: "What is that? I may be... Now what I am, that's all." So the wife requested that "This man should be killed so that he may not disclose the secret of your life, that you were a menial servant in his house." And "No, no, no. This is... This cannot be. He is just like my father. How can I kill him? This is not possible." And just see. Then she advised, "At least make him Mohammedan. Convert him to be a Mohammedan." In those days it was not very difficult. If somebody, a Mohammedan, takes water from his water pot and simply sprinkle in somebody's body, he becomes Mohammedan. The Hindu society was so rascal. Still they are. Simply by sprinkling water from the pot of a Mohammedan he becomes Mohammedan. So this Nawab said, "All right, I shall sprinkle water. Let him do what he likes," to satisfy his wife. So he did it. When he did it-then the society was so strong*-he went to the bhaṭṭācārya to consult: "Oh, sir, I have been sprinkled water by a Mohammedan. So what prāyaścitta?" What is called? What is the English of prāyaścitta, compensation?

Revatīnandana: Some penance.



*Prabhupāda: No, no. Atonement. "So what kind of atonement I have to do?" So the bhaṭṭācārya advised him that "You take one kilo of lead and melt it and drink it, and that is your atonement." You see? So he said, "How it is possible?" "This is the atonement for such sinful activity. Yes." Just see. For the last five hundred, six hundred years... Why...? For thousands of years the Hindu society is so fallen. Therefore so many Mohammedans have increased here. They are not imported. In this way the Hindu population, they have been forced to accept Mohammedan religion. You see? By the Mohammedans. Just like Aurangzeb. He imposed one tax for the Hindus. So all the poor men class, to avoid the tax they became Mohammedans. And there was so much punishment by the Hindus. And so he became a Mohammedan, so*-called Mohammedan, by the diagnosis of the bhaṭṭācārya. So this kind of prāyaścitta was current during the fallen days of the Vedic society.



*But in the śāstras there are... In every scripture... Just like in Christian, their prāyaścitta is to confess, similarly, there are different types of prāyaścitta. So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja is advised, yathā puraiva. Yathā evaṁ tasmāt pāpasya niṣkṛtau prāyaścitta yateta kadā mṛtyu puraiva. So prāyaścitta. If you want to be free from the reaction of the sinful activities in this life*-exactly in the same way as Christian Bible advises that you have to make some atonement, go to the church and confess your sinful activities and pay some fine-exactly in the same way in Vedic scriptures also, that "Before death you must make some atonement; *otherwise you will continue in your next life." Tasmāt puraivaṣv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā [SB 6.1.8]. "Before you meet your death, that you should take." Doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru-lāghavaṁ yathā. And you have to make atonement according to the gravity of your sinful activities. Yathā bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit. Just like nidānavit. Nidāna means a expert physician. He prescribes medicine and advises treatment according to the gravity of the disease. Similarly, you have to undergo atonement for the sinful activities according to the gravity. That is the treatment. Then... The king is very intelligent. He is not only king but he's a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. So he replied, "What is the use of this kind of atonement?"

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



*"Sir, what is the value of this atonement? If people continue to act sinfully, then what is the use of this kind of prāyaścitta?" This is a very intelligent question. Suppose a man suffering from venereal disease goes to a doctor and he prescribes some medicine and gives him some diagnosis that "You should live in this way, in that way." But after the disease is cured, immediately if he commits the same sinful act, then what is the value of the treatment? The same thing, just like nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. In every society this is going on. In our Kṛṣṇa conscious society, or those who are Vaiṣṇava, they are, some of them are thinking like that, that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, so if I commit some sinful act, then I shall again chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and it will be adjusted." And Christians also think like that, that "I may commit sins throughout the whole week, and on Sunday I shall go to the church and confess it. It will be counteracted." So this defective conclusion of the human society is interrupted here by the question of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, that



dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



*So people, they know that "There is resultant action of this kind of sinful activity." He knows. Even if he does not know, he sees. Just like a man who has stolen, committed theft. One sees that he is arrested or he is punished, he is put into the prison, and still, he commits stealing. He knows. So similarly, we are hearing from the śāstra that "If you commit this sin..." Just like māṁsa. Māṁsa, this very thing, means, māṁ sa khadati. Therefore flesh is called māṁsa. "The animal which I am killing, he will have the right to kill me and eat me." That is going on, repetition: "I kill you this life. Next life you kill me. In this life you have become a cow or goat. Next time I'll become a cow or goat. You have the right to kill me." This is called karma*-bandhana.



*So we hear from the śāstras. You may not believe, but we can see practically that a man who has committed murder, he is also hanged. There is no doubt about it. "Life for life." So how these foolish persons very, I mean to say, boldly killing animal? If it is a fact even in your state law that "life for life," how I can dare to commit murder or kill another animal? You see? And this is conclusion. The śāstra says that you have to pay that particular individual soul by your life. That is the meaning of māṁsa, the Sanskrit word māṁsa. Māṁsa khadati. I am taking the risk. When I kill one animal for eating, I am taking the risk that "This animal sometimes will kill me." Exactly in the same way, life for life, murder, murderer is hanged*-that is the law of the state-so why not that law in the state of the Supreme? Is that very unreasonable? But they do not see. Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that dṛṣṭa-śruta. In the scriptures or in the religious lawbooks I have heard it that this kind of sin will be reacted in this way. And dṛṣṭa, and I have seen also that a man committing murder is hanged.

So dṛṣṭa-śruta yat pāpam. So this kind of sinful activities, janānn apy, everyone knows. Yesterday we were speaking of seeing and hearing. These experiences gathered by seeing and hearing is very important. This is tangible. So these two words have been used, dṛṣṭa-śruta: "by hearing and by seeing." Everyone knows that there is sinful reaction. Janānn apy. What is that? Ātmano ahitam, ātmanā: it is disastrous for his self. He has to undergo so much punishment. Still, karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ. Vivaśaḥ means automatically. He has been habituated. Automatically he commits the same sin, vivaśa. Prāyaścittam atho katham. Then, if he remains always a victim to the sinful reaction and if he is habituated to do that, so artificially this kind of confession in the church or giving some bribe to the bhaṭṭācārya, what is the meaning of this? It is practical question. If the man is habituated to commit sinful activities throughout the whole week, what is the use of his going to the church and confessing and give some bribe or... You take in any, any field. So it is very intelligent question. There is practically no use. If you remain a thief always, so for your theft you are put into the prison, and as soon as you get out of the prison again you commit theft. He knows that "I shall be again put into the prison." Still, he commits the same thing. Actually there are many thieves. At least in India I have seen. Their business is stealing, and they are put into the jail, and as soon as he comes out, again commits the same thing and put into the jail for many days.

Himāvatī: Swami, many people also think that "If you're sinful, how can church help you? What is the use of going to church?"



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you... That will be discussed. This is the point. This is being discussed. It is not the... It is not the question of atheism. Their point is "What is the use of going to the church?" But the use is that if he goes to the church, if he actually hears about, I mean to say, glorious life, to become devotee, to understand God, then the utilization of going to the church is all right. But if he goes with that spirit that "I shall go to the church and my sinful activities will be counteracted by giving some bribe and going to the church. Then it is very good..." But his motive is different. Churchgoing is not for that purpose. That is a facility.



*Just like we are preaching, "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]-your sinful activities will be counteracted. Kṛṣṇa says that 'You just surrender unto Me and I shall give you protection from the sinful acts.' " So if I think, "It is very good. Then I shall go to Kṛṣṇa. I shall take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and He will protect me from the sinful reaction. So it is a great opportunity. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and commit all sinful activities, Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." And that will create certainly atheism: "What is this bogus thing?" But that does not mean... So, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa takes charge of your past sinful activities. But that does not mean that I shall remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, at the same time I shall go on committing sin. This, for this facility, if anyone takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is most sinful, that "I shall take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness because whatever sinful activities I shall do, it will be counteracted by Kṛṣṇa." So that will create certainly atheism, that "What is this bogus talk?" Do you follow? Yes. But that is not meant for.

Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted Jagāi Mādhāi on the condition that they will not commit any more sinful activities. So whatever they have committed, that is excused. Just like I am also accepting. Not that on the condition that you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and whatever you do, it will be counteracted. We are not making that condition. We are making condition that you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whatever sinful activities you have done, that will be squared up. But you don't do any more. Don't have illicit sex, don't drink, don't do this, don't do this. So you must take it in that (indistinct). Whatever you have done, that is no disqualification. That will be squared up. But not that on the strength of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness you'll do again. So these people are misunderstanding that "Church is giving me some facility that 'All right, whatever you have committed, that you confess. It is excused.' " But if the church and the people make a business that "All right, throughout the whole week let me commit all kinds of sins and on Sunday it will be all counteracted..." Yes?

Revatīnandana: There's one example I just remembered from the Christian Gospel. Jesus was accustomed to heal diseased people. And one time they brought a leper or somebody with a very bad disease before him. Or he was blind or something. And they asked him, "Can you heal this man?" And instead of saying, "Be free from leprosy," he said, "Your sins are forgiven." And they said, "Oh, what is this? We don't want you to forgive his sins. We want you to cure his disease." Jesus said, "What is the difference? Your sins are forgiven you." And when he said that the man's disease was healed and then he said, "Now go away and sin no more."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: That was a reference about karma. Those who do not understand... It was a lesson on karma.



Prabhupāda: So there is no value of this question of the atheist. They do not know what is the meaning of going to the church or going to the temple or church or spiritual master. That is a foolish question. The church does not allow. But if the church does not disclose this fact, that "Oh, I see every week you come. What is this nonsense?" But the priest, they get some money and they want to continue their church business to get some money. So this is going on, cheating and cheated. Therefore the society has become the full of cheaters and cheated. So the cheating cheaters are not encouraged. If in the church or if anywhere, in the court, they are all full of cheaters and cheated, then what can be done? But either the court or the church is not meant for that purpose, that they will excuse the sinners every week without questioning and without giving him full, nice instruction that "You cannot do this." But if they say like that, then no more, nobody will come. Their income will be lost. So therefore they are cheated and those people who are thinking that "I have gone to church and my priest has excused me. I have confessed," this is cheating. That's all. Actually the purpose is different.



*Revatīnandana: The priests are all driving Lincoln*-Continentals. All the priests drive very expensive automobiles. They're all dressed very nicely and they have very big cars, Catholic priests. They get so much money for forgiving sins.



Prabhupāda: They get money?



Revatīnandana: Yes, in Europe they used to sell indulgences. For a certain amount of money you get a certain indulgence.



Prabhupāda: Here also. The priests allow. The guru allow. The professional guru... His disciple will come: "Sir, doctor has advised me to take fish. Without taking fish my eyesight will be lost. He has advised. So what to do? You have asked me not to take fish. You said." "Oh, all right, I give you permission." He gives his permission. This is going on. "I give you per..." Because the guru sees that "If I say no, this rich disciple will be lost. So better let him do whatever he likes. I get my fees. That's all." This is going on. That statement of my Guru Mahārāja, "the society of the cheaters and the cheated," is a fact everywhere. In a law court also, you bribe; *you get justice. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Arghyeṇa nyāya-rahitam: "If you have got no money, then you cannot get justice in this age. You cannot get justice." It is clearly stated here. That is the symptom of this age. In the law court you have to bribe. In the judges...



*I know so many cases. The judges are bribed and they give favorable judgment. You bribe any judge, then he accepts. One big judge and a big man's brother, P.R. Das. He was a very famous judge in high*-court and, in Patna high-court, and he is the brother of a great pleader, C.R. Das. So he was taking bribe. He was taking bribe. And this was known to the other judges and the chief justice also. Complaint was there by other judges that "He takes bribe." So in one case... Because there are rivals in everywhere. You see? So in one case he was to just deliver the judgment and everyone knew that he has taken already bribe, some thousands of rupees. So chief justice called him in his room, that "Mr. Das, I have heard that you do this business, and you have done this also today. All reports are with me. You immediately resign and go. Otherwise I shall take action. You immediately resign and go away. Otherwise I'll take action. I have got all evidence." So when he saw that "There is now no way out." So he resigned that "On consideration on health. I am feeling very weak. My heart is palpatating." In this way wrote and resigned and immediately he left high-court, and the judgment was saved, and it was announced, "Mr. Das is very ill, sick, so today's court is closed. It will return tomorrow." So that means that was the last day of his sitting in the court, and he retired. I think that man is still living or dead? He was taking. And when he was asked by his friends that "Why did you take bribe?" So, "I get only four thousand rupees. I have got expenditure, ten thousand. What can I do?" You see? A big judge. He was doing that business. That is within our experience.

Mālatī: That (indistinct) Das in Calcutta was a (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Huh? Which missionary?



Mālatī: That (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is different. This is a different Das. So so many cases, I know, in the legal take bribe. They take bribe. Therefore it is called Kali*-yuga. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with vicious condition, anywhere. You go to the court, you go to the church, you go to the priest, you go to the so-called spiritual master... The time is so vicious. You see? The only rescue is to become sincere to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then one is safe. Otherwise the whole atmosphere is very dangerous. That's all. (devotees offer obeisances) [break] There are nice birds. Cuckoo.



Devotee: That cuckoo bird?



*Prabhupāda: "Co*-co, co-co, co."



Haṁsadūta: In India everything is alive.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Haṁsadūta: In India it appears that everything is alive.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Haṁsadūta: When we came we first noticed everywhere there's a town, all kinds of animals are living. No one is disturbing them.



Prabhupāda: Well, this is land of religion. It is admitted by other parts of the world. Just see. Columbus was searching after India even for trade, hundred of years... People are coming to India for so many: for knowledge, for philosophy, for trade, for money. Why these Britishers came? They came for money. And now, India being exploited for so many thousands of years and their standard of civilization deteriorated, the condition is now... Still, India's position is unique, still, in this fallen condition. Now people are degraded from their high standard of living, from spiritual point of view, material point of view. And still, they stand, previous social construction, their living condition, their feelings of religion. It is still going on. Climate also.



Haṁsadūta: Climate.



*Prabhupāda: Climate also. The climate is very favorable. Now it is, of course, winter season. Otherwise, it will continue for two months only. It is not very severe, and still, this condition will not continue. Throughout the whole year you can remain naked body. There is no expenditure for dressing much. And to remain clean, you simply wash in the water, and immediately it is... So with one cloth or two cloths you can go on for six months. There is no much expenditure. And this vegetarian diet, if you take a few grains of this chick pea and little milk, you don't require anything to eat. Everything, facility, is there still. But they have... The people are being trained up to imitate Western civilization. That is the government policy, that, "Unless you become Westernized, technologist, you'll not be happy." But they can become happy even in this condition. This artificial partition has caused some trouble by the Britishers because the Pakistan has taken away all the wheat and rice. Their purpose was that. The Punjab side, they are producing wheat in very large quantity. In Bengal, that is the, perhaps the biggest rice producing country in the world, Bengal. So rice is in Pakistan and wheat is in Pakistan. Even cows, they were maintained by the Punjabis, big, big cows, milk*-producing. They are now in the Punjab. So there is no milk, there is no rice, there is no wheat. And they have no sugar. The sugar is produced this side. In this way, always. And the Kashmir question... That is British policy. Due to this partition only, India's position is now very crippled. And these rascal leaders, they accepted partition for becoming prime minister. This policy. Gandhi never agreed. So the Jawaharlal Nehru, in order to become prime minister, he committed such a blunder. Therefore India is given... Still, if they keep to their original culture, they will not be unhappy. And you find in every city some such institution as this Gītā Bhavan, in every city you'll find. People are contributing. They are coming. They are holding ceremony, calling saintly persons, every city still. Just like we have gone to Punjab?



Revatīnandana: Amritsar.



*Prabhupāda: Amritsar. How people were anxious to hear. Then there will be the Kumbha*-melā. If you go to Kumbha-melā you'll see how from all different parts of the country, millions of people will come to participate.



Devotee: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Millions and millions of people. There is no advertisement but they will come. Government wanted to discourage them in so many ways. In Jagannātha Purī you will find daily, in Vṛndāvana and all sacred places. The Ārya*-samājīs, the government, they tried to condemn this temple worship, this...



Haṁsadūta: Nehru.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Nehru, yes. Nehru was such a rascal that he came... Ramakrishna Mission has a big hospital in Vṛndāvana. So on the opening day he came from Delhi by helicopter. He stayed there the whole day. He came in the morning, and the function took place in the evening. Or in daytime. He left the same day. But he did not visit a single temple. You see? Such an atheist he was.



Haṁsadūta: He was also involved in that Jagannātha... There were many carvings on the temple, and he had some of them destroyed, at the Jagannātha temple.



Prabhupāda: What it is? What he is destroyed?



Himāvatī: It was a sun temple. They worship the sun.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.



Himāvatī: And there are many obscene statues, so he came to that temple and said, "What is this?" and he had them destroyed.



Prabhupāda: He was a great rascal. Change this water.



Revatīnandana: You saved us from all these rascals, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Revatīnandana: You saved us from all these rascals.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Himāvatī: You saved us from all these rascals. You're the only one who told us these kind of people are...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: Because if Nehru was a rascal, then what was Johnson and Nixon? What are they?



*Prabhupāda: They are also rascals. All these politicians, they are rascals. Yes. That is Kali*-yuga. Where king was like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, now he is Johnson and Nehru. So how people will be happy?



Haṁsadūta: So we have to run some of our devotees for office.



*Prabhupāda: No, if you can make the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be automatically..., because the democracy is there. So if they vote for a Kṛṣṇa conscious person to become president and prime minister, then everything will be saved. So that means you have to create voters, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be right. That should be one of your aims, the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. The government still is under the control of the public. That's a fact. If the public becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, naturally the government will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. But that is up to the public. But they do not want to be. Therefore they want a king*-the crane was sent. You know this story? The frogs, they wanted a king from God, and God gave. He gave them one stone. (indistinct) small. So they were expecting a king. Then, when they saw that king is not speaking, somebody jumped over it. Still, the king did not say. "What can be done to the king?" So they accused the God that "What kind of king you have...? He does not speak. He does not move." "All right." Then He sent one crane. So the crane came and began to catch one like that. Then they became, "Oh, what kind of king?" (laughter) So the public is like that. They wanted. They defied this religious system. They defied their... Yes. The modernized. Who was saying, "the modernized version of Bhagavad-gītā?" Chinmayananda?



Haṁsadūta: Chinmayananda.



Prabhupāda: They're appreciating. You see?



Revatīnandana: There's a story I read. Sometimes the... In South America there's a small wild cat called ocelot. And they are like tigers but very small. They eat monkeys. They eat monkeys in the tree. They're cats, about twice as big as a house cat, called ocelots. And sometimes these ocelots, they'll lay on the branch of a tree like they're dead. They don't move. They don't even blink their eyes. And all the monkeys come and they gather around to see the dead ocelot. And finally the monkeys get very crazy and they go, one of them, and pull the tail of the ocelot, and then it's all over. That's how they kill the monkeys.



Prabhupāda: Therefore monkeys are considered very fools.



Haṁsadūta: Foolish.



Prabhupāda: Foolish, yes.



Revatīnandana: They're like people, and the leaders kill them.



Prabhupāda: There are some birds; they also eat monkeys.



Haṁsadūta: Birds.



Revatīnandana: Big hawks like eagles.



*Prabhupāda: Monkey*-eaters. I have seen that bird in Los Angeles zoo, monkey-eater bird.



Revatīnandana: They're from Africa, big eagles.



Haṁsadūta: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja told us about the monkeys in Vṛndāvana.



Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many monkeys.



Himāvatī: Big monkeys.



Prabhupāda: No, no.



Himāvatī: No?



Prabhupāda: That is Bengal. That is called Hanumān.



Revatīnandana: You said in Vṛndāvana they would come in a gang. Three or four will jump out in front like this, and the rest will grab what you have and take it away. You said they would do that.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: They're very smart.



Prabhupāda: But if you have got a stick they will not come. They are afraid of stick. The dogs also, they are afraid of stick. Therefore in such places one should carry in hand one stick. That is safe. After all, they are animals. They know that a man can strike with the stick very severely. They are afraid of that. In Vṛndāvana, in the beginning, I was eating, and a monkey entered very peacefully and took it, everything. (laughter) He took everything. I could not replace. I began running. Immediately caught also. They do like that. In Vṛndāvana you cannot open doors.



Haṁsadūta: Really?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.



Haṁsadūta: They come right in. They're so bold?



Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.



Haṁsadūta: They're so bold?



Prabhupāda: Bold means they will come and they have no tactic. You are eating and they'll enter. Something he will take away. Therefore there are... Just like here, two sets of doors, one net, the railing door. So one door is closed, wooden; another is railing. So railing door must be closed always. Otherwise you cannot eat, you cannot live very peacefully. They may... Monkey will come.



Devotee: Acyutānanda said he was making capatis one day, and there was a little, a nail this thin especially to keep the monkeys out, holding the door closed. So he heard a sound outside and thought somebody was coming, and, sure enough, the nail was lifted to see, and a monkey popped in, got his capatis and ran.



Prabhupāda: Yes, they are very clever.



Himāvatī: But after all, they're human beings also.



Prabhupāda: Monkey is the last species of life before being promoted to the human being. There are three animals: monkey and cow, and tiger. Lion... Yes.



Haṁsadūta: When that promotion comes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are not immediately born into a society like American or...?



Prabhupāda: No, no. Uncivilized, just like aborigine.



Haṁsadūta: Aborigines, negroes...



Prabhupāda: Human species. Then gradually they become born in civilized...



Haṁsadūta: It must be very difficult to get a birth in a civilized society.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. Therefore it is said, labdhvā sudurlabham. [SB 11.9.29] It is very rare, now, especially to take birth in India in the Vedic society. India means within this planet, the civilized Aryan family. Now Aryan families have degraded. Otherwise Aryan means progressive. So all over the world the Aryan families they have degraded. Otherwise the Vedic civilization was Aryan civilization.



Devotee: Some places they recognize that. When we went to one meeting in Bombay...



Prabhupāda: The Europeans and Americans, they belong to Aryan family. They have lost their Vedic culture. Now it is being revived again.



Revatīnandana: They came from those renegade kings that ran away from Paraśurāma?



Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many reasons.



*Revatīnandana: Is it also true that the Scandinavians come from... Kaṁsa*-nisūdana was telling me that the Scandinavians came from Skandha, god of war, and that these people were driven out of India by the Hindu society. They were worshipers of Skandha, and they took shelter in northern Europe?



*Prabhupāda: Maybe. Actually Aryan civilization was central Asia. Some of them went towards India and some of them went towards Europe. Indo*-European stock that is called.



Revatīnandana: Central Asia.



Prabhupāda: Central Asia. Caucasian. Kaśyapa Muni's place.



Haṁsadūta: How come they're so white?



*Prabhupāda: The Aryans are white. But here, this side, due to climatic influence, they are a little tan. Indians are tan but they are not black. But Aryans are all white. And the non*-Aryans, they are called black. Yes.



Devotee: They use the term Caucasian to designate those persons who...



Prabhupāda: Not only Europeans. The Kashmir side of this Afghanistan, Baluchistan and Punjab, they are all white.



Devotee: Caucasaus Mountains is near Afghanistan.



Prabhupāda: Yes. All white. In Punjab, you'll find, they are as white as Europeans. Oh, yes. Kashmir.



Himāvatī: Also in Vṛndāvana (indistinct). And they're tall.



Prabhupāda: Tall. So Aryan family, whole Aryans, they are white. And śūdras are called kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, black.



Revatīnandana: But the śūdras have handsome bodily features also. In Amritsar the people have, I think, handsome bodily features.



Prabhupāda: Yes, Aryan family, the structure of body... From the... There is a science called physiognomy. No? Yes. So it can be ascertained. But we have got forget all these material. We have to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is white skin... So you have all taken your bath? So, give me little oil. I shall also take bath.



Devotee: What to do about a massage?



Prabhupāda: Do. Do it. (end)





730217SB.SYD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6

-

Sydney, February 17, 1973



*Prabhupāda: This is a verse from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, First Chapter, verse number six. [SB 6.1.6] In the course of conversation... Not conversation. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the summit of all knowledge. Vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ. Amongst the Vedic scholars, the topmost knowledge means to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything is there. (aside:) This noise has to be stopped. So in all subject matter-physics, chemistry, astronomy, religion, politics, sociology-everything has been fully described, and above all, the science of God is also described. Therefore it is called Bhāgavatam. Bhāgavatam, the word is derived from bhagavān, bhāgavatam. Bhagavān is the first nominative case from the word bhāgavata, and from bhāgavata-Bhāgavatam. Bhāgavatam means in relationship with God and in relationship with the devotees of God. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are preaching the cult of Bhāgavatam. It is a scientific method. So there were many discussions, and in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there is a chronological description of people suffering due to different kinds of sinful activities. Unfortunately, at the present moment people are unaware. They are kept in darkness. Therefore each and every sinful activity, there is punishment. They do not believe in the next life, but they can see practically in this life that if you violate a little laws of nature, you'll be punished immediately. Immediately punished. Just like I have got some pain in this finger, I scratch some nail, that I should not have done. Immediately there is reaction, I'm suffering. Every... You cannot do anything whimsically. As soon as you do it, there is reaction. Take for example just like salt. Salt is necessary. Unless you put little salt in the foodstuff, you cannot eat it. So salt is necessary, but if you put little more, immediately you cannot eat. It will not, not eatable. Because God has given you salt, the seas and oceans of salt, you cannot make it use more than is necessary. If you think that "There is so much salt, let me eat it,'' no, you can not do. Any, any action. Just like in this material world, sex life is very pleasing, but if you enjoy more, then you become impotent, the reaction. If you can eat say four ounce, and if you eat five ounce, immediately there is indigestion; two days you will have to starve.

*So why don't you see? People have become so rascal that they do not think of sinful activities. By nature's law it is so strict that you have to follow the laws given by God. If you don't follow, then you'll be punished. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the laws given by God. That is the simple description of dharma. If you do not know what are the laws of God, then that does not mean you'll not be punished. Innocence of law is no cause for excuse. If you go... Suppose if you have done something criminal without your knowledge, and if in the court you say, "My lord, I did not know this law, that committing something criminal like this I would have been punished.'' So that is no excuse. Ignorance of law is no excuse. Nature's law is so strict. Just like a small child, if a child puts his finger on the fire, the fire will not excuse the child: "Oh, he is an innocent child. He does not know.'' No. It must burn, never mind it is child. So there is description of different types of punishment in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam for different kinds of sinful activities. Therefore, after hearing the description... Parīkṣit Mahārāja is a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is very sympathetic. If actually there is any welfare worker, that is Vaiṣṇava. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on. The Vaiṣṇavas are taking so much, I mean to say, trouble. Just like in Melbourne our, these preachers are being punished regularly. They are taken to the jail, and still they are doing their duty. Still they are going for saṅkīrtana. Just like one side they are violating the so-called laws of the state, they are being punished. Similarly, important laws of God, if one violates, how you cannot be punished? This is an instance. Must be punished.

So Vaiṣṇava is always thinking how people will be happy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on just to make people happy. They do not know so many things and for which they are suffering in this material world in so many stages of life, in so many forms of life. Huh? They are transmigrating from one life to another. There are 8,400,00 species of life. Huh? In this way, actually their existence is being spoiled. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give them right knowledge so that they may become happy. So this question was raised by Parīkṣit Mahārāja, that,

*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi



*"I heard that people suffer such*-and-such kind of punishment for such-and-such kind of sinful activities. So how to get them released from this suffering?'' Just like a friend, suppose another friend for criminal activity is put into jail, but the friend is thinking, "Anyway, my friend is now put into jail, suffering. How to get him released?'' That is friend's action-father, mother or friend. Similarly, Vaiṣṇava, Vaiṣṇava is patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. We offer our respectful obeisances to Vaiṣṇava because Vaiṣṇava is meant for delivering the fallen souls. That is Vaiṣṇava's business. They have taken so much trouble just to deliver the fallen souls from the sinful activities, and those who are being punished, to save them, this is Vaiṣṇava's business. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, not for himself, but for others he inquired this question: "My dear Śukadeva Goswāmī, I understand that these people are suffering so many different types of punishment. But how to rescue, rescue them? Is there any method to rescue them? If there is, kindly describe, kindly describe.'' Adhuneha mahā-bhāga yathaiva narakān naraḥ. Adhuna-now; *iha*-in this world; *mahā*-bhāga. Mahā-bhāga, the Śukadeva Goswāmī is described, mahā-bhāga, most fortunate. A Vaiṣṇava is most fortunate. Vaiṣṇava is most fortunate because he has got the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi (mā śucaḥ)

[Bg. 18.66]



*If one takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, he's immediately released from these resultant actions of sinful activities. So mahā*-bhāga means those who have no sufferings, they're always possessed of all good fortune, he is called mahā-bhāga. Bhagavān. The Sanskrit word is used, bhagavān, fortunate.



*So Parīkṣit Mahārāja addressed Śukadeva Goswāmī as mahā*-bhāga, the most fortunate. Because he's perfect Vaiṣṇava, therefore he addresses, "My dear, the most fortunate,'' mahā-bhāga. Adhunā, "Now,'' yathaiva narakān naraḥ, "these people are suffering in the hellish condition of life. How they can be rescued?'' Nānā ugra-yātanān. Very severe punishment they are undergoing. People cannot see. They have no eyes to see, you see? They suffer in great calamities, and still they cannot see that "I am suffering.'' Just like when you pass through the streets of Australia, we go daily, morning walk, big, big skyscraper buildings have been constructed, and people are making plans, designs, working very, very hard, lifting so many heavy things. These are very heavy tasks, but they are thinking, "It is very happiness.'' (laughter) They are thinking, "We are making progress, we are making progress. We are bringing stones and irons on head and putting together, and it is progress. We are very happy.'' (laughter) This is going on. This is called varāta māninaḥ(?). They are enamored by the external energy of the Personality of Godhead. These material things are products of the external energy of the Lord. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. Bhūmi, the earth, the iron, stone, wood, they are nothing but transformations of earth. Similarly, apo, water. So whatever we are manufacturing here, they are simply combination of earth, water, air, fire, that's all. Nothing but. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam. Exchange of teja, fire. Teja means fire, vāri means water, and mṛd means earth. Just like the bricks. What is this brick? You take earth, you take earth and mix it with water and put it in the fire, it becomes brick. So whole thing, either earth, stone or iron, anything, they are simply mixture of these five elements. So I am spirit soul. I have been engaged in mixing these five things and big, big lumps and gathering them just like children play in the sea beach, gathering so much sand and making like this, big house, and then it is fallen down. So we are engaged in these material activities, but we forget at the same time that there is ready, atom bomb. As soon as there will be declared war, these things will be finished, immediately. These people are not declaring war. America is not declaring war against Asia, Russia or China. They are thinking because they know they have got the deadly weapons, atom, and that is the now diplomacy. When there will be war, the first dropping of atom bomb will be victorious. Aah, victorious.

So this is called material civilization, that we do not know that these things will be finished today or tomorrow or hundred years after. It will be finished. And I am living soul, I am eternal, and I have been engaged in these material activities without knowing my progress of life, or without knowing my transmigration from... Suppose I spent all of my energy in this piling of stone and wood in this life, and next life if I become a rat or cat in this house, then what is the profit? (laughter) And there is possibility. There is possibility, because after death you cannot say that "I am going to be like this.'' That is under the hands of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Prakṛti will take charge of you immediately. As soon as you give up this body, prakṛti will take charge. Take charge means the prakṛti will test what is the mentality at the time of your death, and he will give you a body like that, automatically. The nature's law is working so nicely, so perfectly, that everything is becoming manifest automatically. Just like fire, ah, flower. You see how beautiful flower, rose flower, is coming into existence automatically. Don't think that there is no brain. There is brain, but the brain is so perfect and instant that you are seeing that it is becoming automatically grown. No. There is brain. Just like electric, electrons. Just like here is a machine working, and pushing some buttons it is recorded, and pushing some buttons it is stopped. A child may think that it is being done automatically. No. There is a big brain behind this machine, big brain. But a foolish man sees that it is being automatically. Similarly, nature's law is parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Na tasya kāryam... These are the Vedic versions. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇam ca vidyate. Just like if we have to construct a skyscraper building, then we have to work so hard to collect the materials and piling them and making them secure and so many things. So..., but this material creation, this universe, was created not like that. Just like it is said in the Bible, '' 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation.'' Similarly, actually it is so. Parāsya śaktir. God's potencies are so subtle and perfect, as soon as He desires, immediately thing is ready. This is called yoga system, yoga system. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is known as Yogeśvara. Of all the yogis, He is the supreme yogi. Yathā yogeśvara. So, there is work, but do not think that "There was no work; automatically it comes.'' No. There was work, but it is so subtle and perfect. The same thing, the working, so many things are working, going on within the machine, that simply I push it on and it acts. Similarly, work is there for creation. The work is there, but it is actuated by the perfect potency of Kṛṣṇa. That is real understanding. Don't think that it has come like mantra. No. The mantra is like that, but we cannot see how subtle work is going on. If we cannot see even in our body... Suppose there is some injury in your finger or any part of the body. You do not know how subtle work is going on to cure it. Medicine is not cure; *medicine is only helping. But there is automatic way of curing. Even your energy, this is your energy. My bodily pains and pleasures, so many things are going on. Just like so many, you cannot count even how many hairs are there on your head. You cannot count. But it is your hair, and it is produced by your energy. You have got so much energy that as soon as you cut your hair, immediately next moment it begins to grow. Thousands and millions automatically growing. As soon as the body is dead, then no more growing, because energy is gone. So similarly, as in your body so much subtle energies are working, just imagine this universal body of Kṛṣṇa, virāṭ*-rūpa, how much subtle energies are working. So that we do not know. That is our ignorance.



*So any slight deviation from the law and we are put into undesirable condition. That is a fact. Just like here, according to Vedic principle, the laws are given by Manu, Manu. From Manu, the word manuṣya has come, or "man.'' And there is Manu*-saṁhitā. In the Manu-saṁhitā it is stated that if a man commits murder then he should be hanged. He should be hanged. That is followed by every human society. Why? Because the sinful activities which he has enacted, if he is punished in this life, then he'll not so suffer again in the next life. His punishment will be finished. So that is a favor. If a murderer is hanged, then that is a favor shown by the government, because the next life you'll not have to suffer. So when Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired,

*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi



"Kindly describe how these sinful men who are suffering, how they can be rescued from this sinful reaction?'' So Śukadeva Goswāmī replied,



na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāmhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ



*He says, "My dear King, that unless he makes atonement for the sinful activities in this life, then next life he'll have to suffer.'' This is the answer. Ihaivāpacitim yathāmhasaḥ. Aṁhasaḥ means sinful activities, as he has done. How he has done? Kuryān manah*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Just see. We are committing sinful activities even by thinking, even by thinking. If I think that "I shall kill that man,'' this is mental activity. Still it is sinful. Manaḥ uktiḥ. If I unnecessarily chastise you by words, "You rascal this and that,'' so many..., that is also a kind of sinful activity. And if I commit by action, oh, that is sure. Therefore it is said, kṛtasya kuryān mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Pāṇibhiḥ with hands, or by mind or... The concession for this age, when we think of any sinful activities it does not affect us, but when we actually... Suppose I'm thinking of killing you. This thinking of killing you is also sinful, but unless I kill you, the sin is not so prominent. In this age that is a concession. But we are actually thinking, feeling, and willing and acting so many sinful activities that we do not know. That is the ignorance. So dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti. If he does not atone in this life... Just like if I take some money from you, if I do not pay you, then I will have to pay four times next life. That you do not know. Four times, many times, with interest. Just like bank gives you interest, you have to pay. But we cheat so many people. We are thinking that we are very clever: "I can cheat so many persons and take money and enjoy.'' That is atheistic. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. The atheistic philosopher... Everything there are in Indian Vedic culture. Everything is discussed-atheistic, theistic, scientific, everything is there.



So this Carvaka Muni was an atheistic philosopher. His philosophy was that so long you... Now that philosophy is being followed at the present moment, that "You don't care for sinful activities, there is no life, and after finishing this body, everything is finished; *enjoy life as you like.'' This is going on. That is Carvaka's philosophy. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. He said that "You enjoy life by eating as much as quantity as you can provide ghee.'' Because Indian philosophy means if you can eat... Just like in Western countries, if you can eat meat you think that "I am very much fortunate.'' Similarly, in India still, in villages also, they think that "If we can eat more ghee then we are very fortunate.'' (laughter) So ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. So "Beg, borrow, steal, eat ghee.'' Eat ghee, because so long you live, you'll live very sumptuously eating ghee and become fatty. That's all. (laughter) So ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. Live very happily. And then if you say that "I have no money. If I borrow from friends ghee, then I'll have to pay...,'' because these are the injunctions in the śāstras. But he is atheistic. He says, bhasmī*-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet. According to Vedic culture, the body is burned into ashes. So when the body is burned to ashes, who is coming again and paying him back? (laughter) "Don't think about it. Everything is finished.'' So this is the atheistic nonsense. But actually it is not. If you take real knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], that is real knowledge. After destruction of this body, don't think that you are finished. You live, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati, dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. This is the first instruction. If you want to enter into spiritual life, you must know that you, spirit soul, you are eternal. You don't die; *you are not finished. That after the destruction of this body, you accept another body, tathā dehāntara prāptir. These are the versions in Bhagavad*-gītā, authoritative. And dehāntara means another body. There is no guarantee what kind of body you get. That will depend on your work. You may get the body of a king or you may get the body of a hog, as you have done work in this life. This life is a preparation for the next life.

*So here Śukadeva Goswāmī says that if one does not atone his sinful activities... That is prāyaścitta vidhi, according to Vedic culture. In Christian also they have got prāyaścitta, confession. Confession, the Christians are supposed to go into the church and confess the sinful activities and pay some fine and then he becomes free. But that free, that excuse can be done once, twice, thrice, not perpetually. It is not possible. Suppose if you have done something wrong, and if you go to the court and say, "Sir, excuse me. I did not know,'' the court may excuse you one time, second time, but not for the third time. Third time you will be severely punished. So these people who are thinking, "By going to the church, by confession, I become free from all sinful activities, and then let me go again, commit the same thing for the whole week, come again and confess,'' this is not very good business. (laughter) This is not very good business. Similarly, if you think also, you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means you become free from all sinful reaction of life. But if you think that "I have got an instrument, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, so let me commit all sinful activities, then I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, it will be nullified,'' no. That is the greatest offense. That is the greatest offense. Out of ten kinds of offenses, this is the greatest offense. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. So God can excuse you once, twice, thrice, not more than that. Then you will be punished. Because you are knowingly criminal, your punishment will be very severe. So those who think that "This atonement, confession, or chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is the counteraction of our sinful activities,'' they're greatest sinners. They're greatest sinners. They'll be severely punished. Just like a police, a policeman, a constable, if he commits theft, he's severely punished. He's to detect criminality, but he becomes himself a criminal, then he's very highly punished. That is the law.

So here Śukadeva Goswāmī says that unless one atones his sinful activities done in this life, then he has to accept severe punishment in the next life. There is no excuse. This is the conclusion. Dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti. Dhruvam, dhruvam means sure. Surely he must suffer the hellish condition of life, next life, if he does not atone in this life. That is called prāyaścitta, confession, so many things. Ye kīrtitā me: "And I've already described them in the Fifth Chapter, that if you commit this kind of sin, you suffer like this. If you commit this kind of sin, you suffer like this.'' And he's giving a nice example:

*tasmāt puraivāśv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau

yate ta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā

*doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā

*bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidāna*-vit

[SB 6.1.8]



"Therefore, my dear King, according to the gravity of sinful activities, one has to atone similarly.'' The example is, according to the gravity of the disease, the physician prescribes different types of medicine. If your disease is very severe then the physician says, "You have to take this medicine. This is very costly. You have to live like this.'' You know, you know everyone. Ordinary disease, that can be cured by giving some tablet, but if the disease is very severe, then you have to undergo severe medical treatment and suffering and so on. This very example. This is practical. This is practical. There is no question of doubt. The example is given that in this life, if you have some severe type of disease, you have to pay the doctor's bill, also severe. That you cannot avoid. So why not for sinful activities? And what is disease? Disease infection means that is also violating the laws of nature. That is disease. Just I gave you the example, a little scratching of nail, again means (indistinct) so much trouble. So you cannot violate, that is, that is breaking the laws of nature, breaking the laws of God. That is sinful. Either you take it as disease or take it as sinful activities or whatever you call it. This is... So you have to atone.



So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is answering, he's very intelligent, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyaṁ yat pāpam. (aside:) You sit down properly if you are feeling sleepy.

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyaṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitaṁ

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



So Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that "I accept that unless one atones, then he'll be punished, but what is the value of this atonement?'' Just like a man falls diseased. He's habituated to some certain habits, and he falls diseased on account of that. He knows that "I committed this mistake in respect of my healthy condition, so I'm now punished by this disease. He knows and he has suffered, but why he commits again? This is the question. Why he commits again? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyaṁ yat pāpaṁ jānann apy ātmano 'hitaṁ [SB 6.1.9]. A person knows that this is not good for him. For example a thief. A thief knows that stealing is not good. It is against law, and against our revealed scriptures also. No religious book or scriptures will say that "You go on stealing.'' No. Neither the state laws also allows stealing. A man knows. And suppose he's stolen in the past and he was punished or he sees that one who has stolen property, he is arrested by the police and he's being taken into custody. He has seen it, he has heard it. We experience. We gather our knowledge by seeing and by hearing. So both things he has done, but still he is stealing. Why? This is the question. So suppose if I knowingly do something and I make atonement and again I do it. Or a disease. I know that if I attack this infection I'll suffer, still I, ah, become infected, and again I suffer. Again I go to the physician, he gives me medicine, again I'm cured, again disease. This is going on. Why this is? He has got experience, and still he has experienced, he has seen, he has heard, he has full knowledge that "This kind of sinful activity will be fruitful in this way, and I'll have to suffer.'' Why does he do it? Therefore, he says,



kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārtham

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]



*"My dear Śukadeva Goswāmī...'' If a man knows it, by knowing he may refrain for sometime from sinful activity, but again he does it. Again he does it. He's forced, he's forced: "Let me do it. All right, I suffer, doesn't matter.'' But again he suffers, and when he suffers he says, "Oh, I'll not do it again, I'll not do it again.'' But when he's again cured, again he does it. Therefore, Parīkṣit Mahārāja... The same, confession, or anything you take, atonement. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is comparing it, kuñjara-śaucavat. It is just like the elephant's taking bath. The elephant... This is natural, one can see. The elephant takes bath very thoroughly, he washes the body in the water, in the tank, very thoroughly for long time, becomes very cleansed. And as soon as it comes on the shore it takes some dust and throws it. (laughter) That is nature, we have seen. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja... This is just like cleaning the body of an elephant like. The elephant cleanses the body very nicely, but as soon as he comes to the land, he takes dust and throws over it. So what is the use of such atonement if I have to commit again? I do it again and again. Again I commit sinful activities and again I atone. So what is the benefit of this atonement? This is a strong criticism of so*-called confession and atonement.



Then because, as Śukadeva Goswāmī is the most intelligent instructor of Bhāgavata principles, the audience, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he is also very important, very intelligent audience, and he has put this, "What is the use of this atonement? I don't find any benefit. If I have to commit the same sinful activities, what is the use of such atonement? It is just like the bath taken by the elephant, kuñjara-śaucavat.'' Therefore he replied,

bādarāyaṇir uvāca

*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iṣyate

*avidvad*-adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam



*"Yes, my dear King, you are right. Your question is very intelligent. Actually, by committing something wrong and reacting it by something else, that is not very beneficial. The real prāyaścitta is knowledge.'' Real prāyaścitta is knowledge. A thief is committing theft and going to the prison, suffers for six months, again he comes out, and again he commits theft, and within four days again he is put into the prison. We have seen many such cases. He..., the thief comes out of the jail, and exactly after four days he's again put into the jail. So this action and reaction... One has committed theft, and the reaction is that he is put into the jail. This is not exactly beneficial. Real is that thief must be given knowledge. Knowledge... For want of knowledge, the whole world is suffering for want of knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving actual knowledge of the living entity, mīmāṁsā. Mīmāṁsā means that think over the matter, that "Why I am doing this?'' This is called brahma*-jijñāsā, this is called brahma-jijñāsā. Means when a person becomes inquisitive about this "Why?'' "Why I am suffering?'' then he becomes intelligent. The he comes to the standard of human life. And there is Upaniṣad, Kena Upaniṣad. Kena means "why.'' Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he placed this question, "Why? Why I am suffering?'' Ke āmi, kene jāre tāpa-traya. "I do not want to die. Why there is death? I do not want to suffer from disease. Why there is disease? I do not want to take birth. Why I am put into the womb of mother again and again? Janma-mṛtyu jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. And I do not want to become old. Why I am forced to become old?'' When a person comes to this standard, to inquire "Why these things are there?'' this is real intelligence. Intelligence does not mean you gather, like asses, all the stones and iron and put them together and be satisfied that "Oh, I am very happy.'' That is asses' business. Ass is very expert to overload his body with heavy tons of... You know that? Maybe you do not know, but in India there is washerman, he puts tons of cloth over the back of the ass, and it carries. It cannot move, still it carries it. And it goes to the washing ghāṭa, washing place, and it stands there whole day eating little morsel of grass. He's thinking that "Unless I overload my back with this cloth, I cannot get this grass.'' Although he sees there are so many thousands and thousands of grasses all over, still he'll serve that washerman. Therefore it is called ass. (devotees laugh) You see? Ass. (more laughter) No intelligence, simply working for others, and eating a morsel of... I've seen in New York, very big publisher, he's very busy, but he's eating a few slice of bread and cup of tea and nothing more, that's all. You see? There are so many big, big men, they cannot eat much but they work more than us, all day and night. Therefore they are called asses. Karmīs, they are called asses. Not for his personal benefit, but he does not know for whose benefit he is working so hard, but still he is working, without benefit. Therefore sa eva go-kharaḥ. Those who are under the impression, the bodily concept of life, sa eva... Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādīṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. So when the asses will come to this standard, "Why I am working so hard?'' then he's human being; otherwise he's no better than the cows and the asses.



*Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja here, Śukadeva Goswāmī, "Yes. Real prāyaścitta is to inquire, to become inquisitive.'' This is the Vedānta*-sūtra, beginning of Vedānta-sūtra philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Vimarśanam. And,

nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo abhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāya kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



He's prescribing first thing. Just like if you live regularly, if you take foodstuff not more than what you require, if take nice foodstuff, healthy foodstuff, if you follow the hygienic principles, then you will never be attacked with disease. Very reasonable (indistinct). Similarly, we have to live very regulated life; then we shall not be affected or infected by sinful activities. That is the prescription. This is required. If we do not live regulated life, if we do not follow the regulative principles as they are given in the śāstra, then in spite of being put into jail, in spite of my suffering, as soon as I come back, I again commit the same thing and again go to jail. This is... The example is given very nicely here that if anyone does not know how to live hygienically, healthfully, he must fall diseased. That's a fact. Similarly, one must have knowledge what is the value of this life, how I shall live, then he will be not subjected to the sinful activities. This is the conclusion. And if he lives like ass and cow, without any knowledge, without knowing the values of human life, then he must be subjected to sinful activities and will be punished one after another, accepting different types of bodies.



*The different types of bodies means that is our punishment. We may think it as happiness, but as soon as you accept a material body, you are subjected to the four principles of material distresses. What is that? Janma, mṛtyu, jarā, vyādhi. You may think that you are very scientifically advanced-"There is no more distress in my life''*-but Kṛṣṇa says, "No. If you are intelligent, then you should think of these four principles as distresses.'' What is that? Birth, death, old age and disease. But the modern so-called scientists, they cannot make any solution to birth, death, old age and disease; *therefore they have left them aside: "Oh, don't care for them.'' That is ignorance. Our real problem is not this temporary problem that we are in such and such distressed condition. That is temporary. But real problem is, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. If anyone is intelligent enough, he should always keep before him that there are, these are my distresses: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. I don't want to die, so what I have done for stopping my death? What have I done to stop my birth? Huh? Because as soon as I die, again I enter into the womb of a particular type of mother. Hm? Again I have to live there, packed up. That is the... Everyone knows. I cannot move even. No independence. The insects biting my delicate body, I cannot protest. I'm simply suffering. So many things. After coming out of the womb, still there is suffering. Suffering, suffering, suffering*-the whole life is suffering-but I do not know how to compensate the suffering. That I do not know. That is ignorance. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. Just like the ass cannot understand that he's suffering, loading so much cloth upon his back. That is ass, one who cannot understand the suffering. And we are taking it, "This is now pleasure. This is not suffering, this is pleasure. I am working so hard.'' I remember long ago, about forty years ago, one of my servants, he left my service and he was pulling on ṭhelā. You know ṭhelā, a hand-pulled cart? So after that he came to see me. I asked him, "How you are doing now?'' So he was very pleased that "I am working, pulling on this ṭhelā and eating sumptuously, and by evening it becomes all digested and again I'll eat.'' That is the (indistinct). He's eating sumptuously, and by working, by pulling on the ṭhelā, hard labor, whole thing is digested and again goes in the evening he eats very sumptuously, he is very pleased. That is his success of life. So people are doing like that. They are eating in the morning and working very hard whole day, and in the evening again he becomes hungry and eats more sumptuously. That is his happiness. That is his happiness. But he does not think that these distresses are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9].

*So there is no solution for them made. The so*-called scientists and philosophers, they do not..., "Oh, death is natural. What is this? I'll have to, I'll die.'' But when there is warning, "Now death,'' there is... I have, everyone has seen that as soon as there is earthquake, they began to scream, "Oh, now I'm going to die.'' As soon as there is any shaking in the airplane, they begin to scream. (laughter) He's afraid of death, but he says, "Oh, that is not a problem.'' He has got his experience that at the time of death it is very severe punishment. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: "You may be satisfied with your foolish idea that you are very happy, but if you are intelligent then you must always keep yourself...'' The Cānakya Paṇḍita also said that those who advancing in spiritual life, they should place before him that "Here is death,'' just before him. And those who are karmīs, like ass, they'll always think that "I'll never die.'' The spiritualist always thinks that "I am dying, dying, dying, going to die next moment.'' And the karmīs, he should think that "I'll live forever.'' Otherwise he cannot work. He cannot. Unless he is put into this ignorance that he'll never die, he cannot work.

*So at the modern age the people are simply kept into ignorance so that they can work like ass and cow and be satisfied. This is the present civilization. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a fight against this civilization, this wrong civilization. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness... the people are being denied their privilege. The human life is meant for getting out of this ignorance of life. But people are being put into ignorance, and their human life is being spoiled. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the greatest welfare activity to the human society. Those who are intelligent enough, they should try to understand it and help it as much as possible. Otherwise it is very risky civilization. People are kept into ignorance. He does not know what is the value of life. He does not know what he is. He does not know what is God. He does not know what is life. He does not know what he is going to become next life. He's completely in darkness. Therefore Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he does not inquire that "What I am? What is my necessity? Why I am suffering?'' Unless one comes to this position of inquisitiveness, whatever he is doing, it is all defeat for him. It is all defeat for him because he does not know what is his position. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to giving him the chance to understand himself, and it is very easy, it is very easy. And it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

janma karma ca me divyam

evam yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktva dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti (so 'rjuna)

[Bg. 4.9]



*If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa*-why Kṛṣṇa advents Himself, why does He come, why does He disappear, what are His activities, what is His philosophy, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be tyaktva deham. After giving up this body, no more accepting. Then you stop your janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. This is the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750608SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6

-

Honolulu, June 8, 1975



Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (chants three times with devotees responding) (chants verse word for word with devotees responding:)



*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi

[SB 6.1.6]



So Śukadeva Gosvāmī... The whole Bhāgavata is talking between the spiritual master and the disciple. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is the spiritual master, and Mahārāja Parīkṣit, king, is the disciple. At the time of his death he had only seven days remaining. He was aware that only seven days remaining. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit left his kingdom and sat down on the bank of the Ganges, and fortunately his spiritual master also came.



*So there was discussion on the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam for seven days. This seven days' discussion is imitated by the professional Bhāgavata reciters in India. But that is not required. We have to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam daily. Parīkṣit Mahārāja had only seven days left in his life; *therefore he hurriedly finished the reading of Bhāgavatam. But, of course, he had seven days assured. We haven't got seven minute assured. We can die at any moment. Anyway, the recommendation is nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā. We should read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam daily. Simply you go on reading. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. We have no taste for reading and hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but the taste will be created if we even by force sit down and attend Bhāgavata class. The taste will be created. How it will be created? Just like a person suffering from jaundice, if you give him sugar candy, it will be tasted by him as bitter. This is very practical example. He will say, the patient suffering from jaundice, he will say it is bitter. But sugar candy is not bitter. And at the same time, for jaundice-diseased man the sugar candy is the only medicine. If you give him sugar candy, water, sugarcane, then it will..., he will be cured very soon. And papaya. These things are recommended for jaundice patient. Similarly, the discussion on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam may not be liked by me in the beginning, but if we hear... Just like child does not want to go to school, but if you force him to go, gradually he will go automatically. This is the process.

*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is speaking Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and his disciple, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, was hearing. So at the end... This is the Sixth Canto. There are twelve Cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and this is Sixth Canto. So at the end of the Fifth Canto the Parīkṣit Mahārāja was informed about the hellish planets. This universe, there are different types of planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. This universe is one of the universes. There are millions of universes. We do not know. We do not know even one universe. We cannot study even one universe. They are... They were-not are-trying to go to the moon planet, but that has become a failure. From śāstra we understand that the moon planet is situated 1,600,000 miles away from the sun, and the sun is situated in the middle of the universe. And the total diameter from one circumference to the other of the universe it is four billions of miles. So the sun is situated at the point of two billions of miles from the circumference of the universe, and above the sun planet, 1,600,000, there is the moon. And above that there is Venus, there is Jupiter, there is Mars*-all difference of 1,600,000 of miles. So it is not possible to go to the moon planet. Because first of all the sun is a little... According to the modern scientists calculation it is 93,000,0000. Taking it, accepted as 93,000,000's from this earthly planet, then again add 1,600,000, that means 94,600,000 miles away from the earth there is the moon planet. It is not possible. Therefore they are now silent. They cannot go there; neither ever they went there. This is the conclusion. So that is a controversial point, controversial, but we have to see the result. According to Vedic culture, one has to judge by the result. Not by if you simply talk nonsense, one has to accept. What is the result? Suppose if one says that "I have done very good business. I have earned so much money I have got in bank balance..." You can say all these thing. But one sees that a prosperous businessman has got a nice house, nice motorcar, his standard of living is very nice. But if he is loitering in the street, has no good dress, and if he advertises himself that "I am a very big businessman. I have got so much money," who will believe him? Similarly, this moon planet expedition is, up to this date, it is a failure. So how can I believe that they have gone there?

*So this universe is fully described in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. You will see it, where, which planet, where it is situated, what is the dimension, what kind of people live there. Everything is there. Similarly, there are description of the hellish planet, downwards. So that description of those planets when Parīkṣit Mahārāja heard it, that "These sinful men, they are suffering there; some of them being fried in boiling oil," this description is there. Some of them put into the river which is full of germs and mosquitoes, and some of them are forced to embrace a iron, hot iron man, a hot iron woman. In this way there are many description. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī concluded, "Mahārāja, I have described a few of them. There are many thousands and thousand kinds of suffering." So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means devotee. So he did not appreciate the suffering of the human being in such a way. That is a Vaiṣṇava's nature. Vaiṣṇava himself is very happy because he is in direct connection with Kṛṣṇa. He personally has no complaint, because a Vaiṣṇava is satisfied simply by serving Kṛṣṇa. That's all. He doesn't want anything.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at least, teaches us. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. Dhanam means wealth, and janam means many followers or family members, big family, big factory. There are many businessmen, they are running on big factories and thousands of men are working at his direction. This is also opulence. And to have great amount of money, that is also opulence. Dhanaṁ janam. And another a opulence, to have a very nice wife, beautiful, obedient, very pleasing. So these are material necessities. People generally aspire for these three things: wealth, many followers, and a good wife at home. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanam: "I don't want money." Just the opposite. Everyone wants money. He says, "No, I don't want money." Na dhanaṁ na janam: "I don't want many men to..., as My followers." Just see opposite. Everyone wants. The politicians, the yogis, the swamis, everyone wants, "There may be hundreds and thousands of my followers." But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, I don't want." Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. "Neither I want very nice, beautiful, obedient wife." Then what You want? Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī: "Life after life, let me remain a faithful servant of Your Lordship." This is Vaiṣṇava. He doesn't want anything. Why he will want? If he becomes servant of Kṛṣṇa, then what does he want? Suppose if you become servant of a very, very big man, then what is the question of your want? This is intelligence. Any servant of any big man, he is bigger than his master. Because he is given Master is given so many varieties of food. Master takes little, and the balance the servants eat. (laughs) So where is his want? There is no question of want. Just try to become servant of God, and all your necessities will be sufficiently fulfilled. This is intelligence. Just like a rich man's child, does he want anything from father? No, he simply wants father, mother. The father*-mother knows what does he want, how he will be happy. That is the duty of the father and mother. Similarly, this is very good intelligence: just to try to become the sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa. All your necessities of life will be sufficiently supplied. There is no question of asking.

Therefore intelligent devotee they do not ask like the unintelligent devotee go to the church and pray to God, "Give us our daily bread." He's God's servant, and He will not get your bread? You have to ask from God? No. God is giving bread to the eight million other living entities. Birds, beast, tigers, elephants, they are not going to the church for asking bread. But they are getting it. So if God is supplying everyone's food, why He shall not supply you? He is supplying you. So we should not go to God for begging some material benefit. That is not actual devotion. We shall go to God for begging how one can be engaged in His service. That should be the begging: "Hare Kṛṣṇa," means... Hare means "O the energy of God and Kṛṣṇa. O Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. It is simply praying, "O my Lord Kṛṣṇa, O Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, Kṛṣṇa's energy, kindly engage me in Your service." That's all. Finished all business. This is Vaiṣṇava. So Vaiṣṇava has no necessity. He knows that "I have no necessity. My only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa." Therefore he is happy in all conditions.

*So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is a Vaiṣṇava. From his childhood he is a Vaiṣṇava. So he has no unhappiness. But when he heard that so many sinful persons are going to the hell and they are suffering in this way, he became very sorry. That is Vaiṣṇava. Para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. He has personally no unhappiness, but he is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. All the Vaiṣṇava you will see. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, tyaktvā su-dustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ dharmiṣṭha ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyaṁ, māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvad vande mahā-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam [SB 11.5.34]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born in a very highly respectable brāhmaṇa family. He was personally very, very beautiful. His name is Gaurasundara. And very learned scholar. At the age of sixteen years He defeated a very learned scholar from Kashmir. So He was very influential. When He was twenty years old the Kazi broke the mṛdaṅga in saṅkīrtana. Kazi means the Mussulman magistrate. And He started the civil disobedience movement and He called for one lakh of men, 100,000 men, to join the saṅkīrtana and go to the Kazi's house. Immediately it was done. Just see how much influential He was. So, so far material condition, He had His very affectionate mother. He was a only son of His mother. All brothers and sister died. And His wife was very Lakṣmī-priya... Lakṣmī-priya died first, then He married, second time, Viṣṇu-priya. So very happy life. But He left. Tyaktvā... surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm [SB 11.5.34]. He was so happy in His family life that even the demigods cannot expect such happiness. Surepsita. Sura means demigods. They had no so much happiness. Tyaktvā, but He gave up. Why? Māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvat. He took this mission just to show mercy to the fallen conditioned souls who are suffering in this material world. That was His...

*Similarly, the Gosvāmīs. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was prime minister in the government. And about him it is said that tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. He gave up such exalted post as minister of the government, chief minister in the government. And tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. As a minister his association was with very big, big men, maṇḍala-pati. Maṇḍala-pati means very, very big leaders. Actually big merchant, big businessman, big industrialist, big politician, they used to visit him. So he gave of up this company. Sadā tuccha-vat: "Eh, what is this nonsense? What is the use of meeting all these men?" Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā succha-vat. And what they became? Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Here is the Gosvāmīs' photo. You can see how they have become mendicant. A small loincloth, one waterpot only, that's all, finished, no possession. So why? Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśadau karuṇayā. They wanted to show their mercy to the suffering humanity. So in this way they adopted change of life. That is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava personally has no demand for life, no unhappiness. He is completely satisfied with Kṛṣṇa. But he is unhappy by seeing other conditioned souls suffering. This is Vaiṣṇava. There are many example. Prahlāda Mahārāja also said the same thing.

So here also Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he heard so many things, but he is very much perplexed that "How these suffering men who are put into this hellish condition of life, not all, some of them?" So he is asking, "My dear sir, you have explained so many things. They are very nice." Adhunā, "just now"; iha, "in this connection"; *mahā*-bhāga, "O the great fortunate"; *mahā*-bhāga yathaiva narakān naraḥ. Yathā eva, "and as"; "from this hellish condition," narakāt, "from the hell"; *the human being, nāna*-ugra-yātanān... They are put into the hell means they are suffering very severe type of pains. Nāna-ugra-yātanān neyāt: "They become free." Tan me vyākhyātum arhasi: "Now leaving aside all other topics, kindly let me know how these men can be delivered from this hellish condition of life." This is his praśna.

*So we may declare very foolishly that we are independent. That is the foolishness of the modern civilization. They are not independent, nobody. Everyone is dependent. But because they are dependent and there are so many sufferings awaiting them for their so*-called independent life, they do not believe in the next life. This is the, I mean to say, special feature of the modern civilization. They say, big, big professor, big, big leader, "No, there is no life after death. This is once we get and finished." That is also another foolishness. Just like a child. A child, he knows that his body will be changed. Nobody will remain a baby. Nobody will remain a child. Nobody will remain a boy. Next life is awaiting. It is very simple philosophy. And then after this body another body is waiting. That's a fact. And not only fact. If you cannot understand it-there is no difficulty in understanding-but the authority says, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. As we are changing from this body to that body, this body to that body, this body to that body, every moment... According to medical science, every moment we are changing body. That's a fact. But the changing is going so swiftly that we do not see how it is being changed. But if you come after some years... Just like we are seeing so many children, and if you come some years after, his father says, "This is the same child," oh, you will be surprised, "Oh!" Because he has changed body. You will say, "Oh, you have become so big." So it is a fact that we are changing body, and Kṛṣṇa says this example, that as we are changing even in this life the body, similarly we shall have to change this body. The authority says, and we are practical example is there. Why we should not believe in the next life? Even a child can understand. But they are trying to avoid next life. That is their philosophy. If there are next life, and next life one is going to put into the hell and suffering is there, to dismiss this problem they do not believe in next life. This is the real fact. But actually this is the fact. If you live irresponsibly then you have to suffer.

*So not that all living entities are going to the hell, but some of them. Some of them. Because most of the living entities, they are less than the human being-8,400,000. So eight millions they are below the human standard of life, human being. They are animals. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Nine lakhs, hundred thousand in the water, different types of forms, body. Then insect... Then plants, trees, then insect, then birds, then beast, then human being. This is the evolution. So these eight million different forms of body below the human being, they are not punishable because they are animals. They have no intelligence. Then again, amongst the human being, those who are intelligent, those who are acting according to the Vedic instruction, they will not be also suffering. Those who are avoiding the instruction of the Vedas, they will be put into that hellish condition of life.

So this question was raised by Parīkṣit Mahārāja that "You have already described." He did not disbelieve. He believed. Because he is Vaiṣṇava, he knows. And he is disciple of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, so he has thorough knowledge. Now he is anxious. This is the symptom of Vaiṣṇava, that he cannot see others are suffering. Therefore he takes. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, Vaiṣṇava. For others' suffering he agreed to be crucified. But the followers are so unfaithful, they have settled up that "Let Christ suffer for us, and let us go on committing sin." Very good conclusion. They love Christ so, that "My dear Christ, you suffer for our sinful activities and let us go on with our sinful activities." Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." They decided, "Let us kill on and on, and open scientific slaughterhouse. And if there is any sin, then Christ will suffer. That's all. He has taken the agency on suffering." Very good conclusion. No. The Vaiṣṇava can take the sufferings for you, but you should be sane, that "Why I shall put such and such Vaiṣṇava into suffering for my sinful activity? Let me stop this sinful activity." That is intelligent. Not that "I give the suffering portion to Christ, and let me go on committing all sinful activities." That is not... But that will not be. That is not a fact. Suppose one is very pet son of his father, and he commits murder, and he thinks "If there is any punishment my father will suffer." Will it be done? Will it be done? When he is arrested, if he says, "No, you can release me. You can arrest my father because I am very pet son of my father," so will the government will do that, that you have committed murder and your father will be arrested? No. This is quite unreasonable. You have committed murder, you must be hanged. Nor your father nor your son nor your brother. This is the law. So that is the law. If you commit sinful life, then you must suffer, not anyone else. But we are thinking like that: "That let me go on doing all nonsense and somebody for me will suffer." No, that is not the law.

So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja does not raise such foolish question that "Who is suffering for..." He is suffering. One who has committed sinful life, he must suffer. That is the law. So the answer is, Śukadeva Gosvāmī,

na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryāt mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī replied, "My dear king, the sinful activities must be atoned." There are three processes: karma, jñāna, bhakti. So yoga is within the jñāna. To improve our condition there are different processes. One is called karma. Just like generally people are trying to elevate his position, economic condition, working day and night very hard. Similarly, we can also work very hard for our future happiness. We can promote ourself in the heavenly planets and we can degrade ourself to the hellish planets also*-both ways. Because as soon as we are engaged in karma, unknowingly or knowingly we commit some sinful activities. This is the position. Just like even if I do not like to kill any animal, still, while walking we are killing many animals, many ants on the street, unwillingly. So that is also taken into account. You cannot kill even an ant. So the karma, karma-kāṇḍa, is not very safe. Even if we want to act very piously, the danger is not over. There were many instances. There was one king. He was very charitable and he was giving cows, many cows to the brāhmaṇas, and you will find this story in the Kṛṣṇa book. So there was some mistake. One brāhmaṇa was taking another brāhmaṇa's cows, and both of them fought and they persisted. The owner wanted, "I want this cow returned back." And the king offered that "Instead of this cow you take ten cows from me. You settle up." No, he would not do that. In this way there was some misunderstanding, and the brāhmaṇa cursed him, as a result of which he had to become an, what is called?



Devotees: Lizard.



*Prabhupāda: Lizard. Just see this karma*-kāṇḍa. He had to become a lizard, that Kṛṣṇa delivered him. So this is karma-kāṇḍa. If there is little discrepancy then there is great risk. Then jñāna-kāṇḍa. Jñāna-kāṇḍa means to understand things very properly. So jñāna-kāṇḍa is simply speculation, because there is no knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So that is also risky. So only bhakti-mārga is not risky. Bhakti-mārga means the devotional..., path of devotional service. Because this material life means contamination of the three modes of material nature. Either you are on the goodness or in the passion or in ignorance, there is chance of falling down from one platform to another, so long you are on the material platform. But if you remain on the spiritual platform... Just like we are trying to keep you on the spiritual platform. That is bhakti-yoga-always engaged in devotional service. Then you are above all these material qualities.



*That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Anyone who is fully, constantly, twenty*-four hours engaged, avyabhicāriṇi... Avyabhicāriṇi, without any stoppage. Therefore I want that in our temple there should be program that we are always engaged in devotional service, twenty-four hours. But because we have got this material body we require a little rest, the minimum rest, as minimum as possible. Because the sleeping means waste of time. We are supposed to be engaged twenty-four hours in the service of the Lord, but as it is not possible, we have to sleep, take little rest, so that should be the minimum. Because the whole period sleeping means waste. So all these Gosvāmīs, they used to sleep not more than two hours. That was also not possible in some day. They were so busy in writing books and other...



*So this should be minimized, and we should be engaged twenty-four hours. If we remain engaged in that way... We have got so many engagement. We are daily singing-I do not know whether you understand the meaning-śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira mārjanādau, yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam **. We have got śrī-vigraha. The śrī-vigraha-sevā*-all rising early in the morning, arrange for maṅgala āratrik, then dressing, then offering food, then āratrik, so many hours. The whole day can be used in that way. Then reading books, class, taking care of the temple. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. Don't think that if one is engaged in the Deity worship and if one is engaged in the gardening work there is distinction. No. The one who is working as a gardener, he is as good as the one who is dressing the Deity, because it is Absolute plane. There is no difference between... Just like in the material world, if one is working as manager and the other is working as menial servant, there is difference of pay or difference of service. No. In the spiritual world there is no such thing. In the spiritual world even a small ant who is serving Kṛṣṇa by chance... Suppose if there is an ant and the flower is thrown into the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and the ant kisses the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he is as good as the pūjārī. This is spiritual world. So we should give everyone chance how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then he will remain on the upper platform. Samatītya. Atītya mean transcending. Etan guṇān. Etan guṇān means because the material world is complicated with the modes of material nature, so this is called guṇa. So anyone who is engaged constantly in devotional service, sa guṇān samatītyaitān [Bg. 14.26], he immediately transcends the influence of the material qualities. Sa guṇān samatītya etān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate.

So these things will be discussed, that "Such person is no meant for going to the hell." No. They are not meant. It is stated that such devotees, they will not in dream also see what is hellish condition of life. They are so, mean, guaranteed. So this hellish condition of life is meant for the persons who are rotting in these material modes of nature, and if you remain above the influence of material nature, always being engaged in devotional service... We have got varieties of service, and we have got such program. So if, some way or other, if we remain engaged always in devotional service, then there is no question of downfall or going to the hellish condition of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760105SB.NEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6

-

Nellore, January 5, 1976





Prabhupāda:



*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi

[SB 6.1.6]



*This is from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto. This is our latest publication, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore I am taking advantage of this publication to present before you. So in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Śukadeva Gosvāmī has given a vivid description of the naraka planets or the hellish condition of life. Fifth Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has given a vivid description of the naraka planets, or the hellish planets. So this verse I am quoting from the First Chapter, Sixth Canto, that Parīkṣit Mahārāja is asking Śukadeva Gosvāmī "How the people suffering in hellish condition of life can be delivered?" [break] Let him... [break] This is the beginning of the Sixth Chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.



*At the end of the Fifth Chapter, Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī has given description of the hellish planets. You have seen in the sky. There are millions and millions of stars or planets, and they are divided into three groups. Everything is described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. [break] ...sattva-sthāḥ, meaning that those who are in the sattva-guṇa, modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasaḥ: "Those who are under the influence of passion, they remain in the middle planetary system." And those who are in the lowest grade of tamo-guṇa, adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, after hearing the pitiable condition of persons in the hellish planets, he became sympathetic. Therefore he is putting the statement before Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Adhuneha mahā-bhāga yathaiva narakān naraḥ: "My dear sir, you have described about the hellish condition of the suffering persons. Now kindly give me any enlightenment how they can be delivered."

*This is the symptom of a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava cannot tolerate the sufferings of the humanity. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He said before Nṛsiṁhadeva, naitad udvije paro duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyāḥ: "My dear Lord, I have no problem how to get delivered from this material world," because a devotee is already on the transcendental platform. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ ca (yo) vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyā...

[Bg. 14.26]



Means anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he is already on the Brahman platform. Therefore a devotee means he is already in the Brahman platform, or spiritual platform. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja became very anxious how this suffering humanity can be saved. Here it is said, nānā ugra yātanāt neyāt tan me vyākhyātum arhasi: "Kindly give me some enlightenment how these people can be saved from this severe type of suffering." So at the present moment in this age of Kali people are so fallen low that they do not know what is going to happen in the future. They are dismissing the whole problem by saying that there is no next life. This is very precarious condition of the modern civilization. So as there are comfortable life, we can see there are discomfortable life also. So there is understanding of pāpa and puṇya. Especially in the human form of life one should know what is pāpa and what is puṇya. The human life is responsible life.



*You have got practical experience that if you violate the law of the state you become criminal and punished. But if the cats and dogs or animals, they violate the law, they are not punishable. Therefore human life must be very responsible. Yes. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "My dear king, if before one's next death whatever impious acts one has performed in this life with his mind, words, and body are not counteracted through proper atonement according to the description of the Manu*-saṁhitā and other dharma-śāstras, one will certainly enter into the hellish planets after death and undergo terrible sufferings as I have previously described." So just like in our ordinary life if we commit some sinful activity and if we plead in the court, "My dear judge, I did not know the law," so this kind of pleading will not help him. Ignorance is no excuse. Therefore human life is distinct from animal life. If we live in human life without caring for the supreme laws, then we are destined to suffer.

*Therefore in the human society there is a system of religion and scripture. It is the duty of the human being to understand the laws of the nature, the injunction in the śāstras and live very honestly according to their direction. In the Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa says,

*yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na siddhiṁ sa avapnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



"Anyone who does not follow the instruction of the śāstras and live whimsically as very free to act, such person never gets perfection of life, no happiness, and what to speak of going back to home, back to Godhead." Especially in India, who are born as Indians, they have got a special facility to get this transcendental knowledge from śāstras. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised or ordered to every Indian that "You make your life perfect by going through the śāstras and distribute this knowledge throughout the whole world for welfare activities." The exact words in Bengali is like this,



*bhārata bhūmite manuṣya*-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



Means anyone who has taken birth in this holy land of Bhāratavarṣa must make his life successful by going through the śāstras and distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. Therefore I am appealing to my Indian brothers to take up this missionary work as ordered by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, especially my appeal is to the people of South India. Because all our ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śaṅkarācārya, they came out from South India, so I especially request gentlemen present here to take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously and join with us. [break] ...says that before our next death comes... Death will come. We say generally, "As sure as death." For our next life. Śukadeva Gosvāmī advises according to our Vedic principle, before death there is a ceremony which is called prāyaścitta or atonement. He advises that when a diseased man goes to a physician, the physician, after diagnosing the disease, he gives the suitable medicine. If the disease is very serious, sometimes very expensive medicine is recommended. There is some example in the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. One gentleman, he was a big zamindar, landholder. He was converted into a Muslim. In those days, five hundred years ago, it was not very difficult to convert a person into Muslim religion. If a Muslim would take some water from his water pot and sprinkle on the body of a Hindu, he would become Muslim. In this way, so many people were converted into Muslims. So I am quoting these instances in this respect because when in those days people would go to the brāhmaṇa to take advice for atonement they would give so severe type of atonement that it was impossible to perform.



So there was the king in Bengal at that time. He was known as Nawab Hussein Shah. Formerly he was a Mohammedan servant to a big Hindu landlord. So this boy servant committed some theft so the master punished him by striking with a cane. So the striking mark of the cane was there on his backside. So one day the Nawab's wife, Begam, saw the mark and inquired from her husband, "What is this mark?" So the Nawab described that in his childhood, when he was a servant of that Hindu gentleman, Buddhimanta Khan, he beat him with that cane and that mark is there. So the wife of the Nawab, Begum Sair(?), she requested that "You kill this man. Otherwise people will blaspheme you." The Nawab, however, declined. "No, no, this cannot... This is not possible. He was my master, just like my father. He chastised me. There was no fault." So the wife then requested, "At least make him a Mohammedan." So the Nawab, to satisfy his wife, he agreed, "Well, that is not very difficult task." So one day he called Buddhimanta Khan and sprinkled the water on his body.

*So Buddhimanta Khan took it that he has now become a Mohammeddan, so he went to the brāhmaṇa for consultation. So when Buddhimanta Khan went to a bhaṭṭācārya, he said that "The," what is called, "prāyaścitta is that you melt one kilogram of," what is called, "lead, and drink it." So he, being helpless, he went to consult another brāhmaṇa bhaṭṭācārya. He said, "All right, if you cannot drink molten lead, then you can drink one kilo of melted ghee." So in this way, when he was helpless, he went to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew the situation of the then society. He therefore advised him that "You better give (up) your family life. You go to Vṛndāvana." So He advised him that "Go to Vṛndāvana, live there and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So the difficulty is, in the śāstras there are atonement for prāyaścitta of so..., not like that*-you drink hot ghee or hot lead-but there are prāyaścittas. So one has to execute that.

So when Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommended, "My dear King, you are very anxious for these persons suffering in the hell. They have to perform prāyaścitta." So Śukadeva Gosvāmī, after recommending this, could not satisfy Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He was king, kṣatriya. He knew the nature of the citizen. Therefore he said,

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

janānn apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



The Mahārāja Parīkṣit said, "One may know that sinful activity is injurious for him because he actually sees that a criminal is punished by the government and rebuked by people in general, and because he hears from the scriptures and learned scholars that one is thrown into hellish condition in the next life for committing sinful act. Nevertheless, in spite of such knowledge one is forced to commit sins again and again, even after performing acts of atonement. Therefore what is the value of such atonement?" [break] Parīkṣit Mahārāja was ruler, the king. He knew everything practically, that so many citizens committing criminal act were imprisoned and punished. Still, they, after coming back from the jail, prisonhouse, again committed. So on the whole, Parīkṣit Mahārāja did not like, the process of prāyaścitta is ultimately beneficial to the people.



*We get experience by two methods, by seeing and by hearing. Just like a criminal, thief, he has seen that previously a man who stole, he was arrested by the police and punished and he has heard also from authorities, from lawyers, that "Stealing is bad. If you are arrested you will be put into the prison." So this is the defect of the modern civilization. They are enacting so many laws to stop criminal but the criminality is increasing. The practical example is, when you go to the airport there is security checking. So all gentlemen, whoever he may be*-sometimes they excuse me-but they are checked thoroughly. So the authorities check everyone means that everyone is dishonest. So what is the value of this education if everyone is criminal and dishonest? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is intelligent devotee. He therefore protested against this so-called atonement. Therefore he describes like this, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ janānn apy ātmano 'hitam [SB 6.1.9]. Everyone knows that "I am stealing; it is not good for me," but even though he is put into the jail as prāyaścitta, again he comes back and does the same thing. Then what is the meaning of this legal punishment or prāyaścitta? Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that

kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārtham

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]



He gave very good example, that "This prāyaścitta or legal punishment is like kuñjara-śaucavat." Kuñjara means elephant, and śauca, taking bath. So kuñjara, the elephant, dips itself into the water and takes bath very thoroughly, and as soon as it comes on the land, it takes some dust and throws over his body. The purpose is that unless one is fully convinced that "Sinful activities are very, very abominable for me," he cannot give it up. Therefore one has to cleanse his heart. That is real prāyaścitta. Otherwise, even being imprisoned or giving fine or suffering one cannot cease from sinful activity. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is thoroughly wholesale process of cleansing the mind.



*Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given His own version, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The purport is-it is a long verse*-that by chanting, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. If we perform this Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana, then immediately our core of heart, which is filled up with all dirty things will be cleansed. For example, you can see practically all my disciples present there. They are coming from Western countries, Europe, America, or even in India, Parsis and other, Mohammedans, they are coming. But they are now pure, cleansed of all dirty things. In this movement throughout the whole world there are at least ten to twelve thousand devotees like that. And before this life they were addicted to all kinds of sinful life. We have summarized all sinful activities into four groups, namely, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. So all these ten to twelve thousand men who are now attached with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are not committing these four pillars of sinful life.

*Therefore our request is that you take to this chanting method. It is very easy, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, and gradually you shall become free from all sinful reaction of life. But one thing we must be very careful, that we should not commit again sinful life. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you become free immediately from all sinful reaction. But if you commit again sinful life, that is your responsibility. This is warned very... Amongst the ten kinds of offenses, one offense is very grievous offense*-nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ-if one thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa; *therefore whatever sinful acts I am doing, it is becoming counteracted." If you keep yourself on the platform of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and do not commit willfully again sinful life, then you are liberated. So not only mukti*-mārga, if you keep yourself always pure, do not commit any sinful activity and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then your life is successful. Don't commit the mistake of the elephant that take bath thoroughly and again come and throw dust on your body. I think I shall end tonight this here. Thank you very much. (end)



760507SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6

-

Honolulu, May 7, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter One, verse number six. (devotees repeat)



*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi

[SB 6.1.6]



Adhuna-"just now"; *mahā*-bhāga-"O the most fortunate." Parīkṣit Mahārāja is addressed as mahā-bhāga. Mahā means great, and bhāga, the same bhāga from the word bhaga, bhāga. Bhagavān and bhāgyavān, mahā-bhāga-these terms are applicable to the very, very great fortunate, opulent. Actually Bhagavān, this word, is applicable to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find, whenever Kṛṣṇa is speaking, Vyāsadeva has written, śrī bhagavān uvāca. Real Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Everyone has got little fortune, opulence, but nobody is comparable with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: "Real Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa," The supreme controller. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. But if one has got little favor of Kṛṣṇa, he is called bhāgyavān, not Bhagavān; bhāgyavān, fortunate. The word is coming from the same bhaga. I have several times explained. Bhaga means richness, bhaga means influence, bhaga means bodily strength, bhaga means knowledge, bhaga means beauty, and bhaga means renunciation. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). And bhaga means reputation, fame. So these are the symptoms of bhaga. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, although nobody can be equal to Kṛṣṇa... Bhagavān means asamaurdha. Nobody is equal to Him; nobody is greater than Him. That is Bhagavān. I am fortunate, you are fortunate, but we have got many equals and many greater than. But when you reach somebody where you find nobody is equal to Him and nobody is greater than Him, that is real Bhagavān. This is a logical conclusion, who is Bhagavān. Nowadays so many rascals they write, "Bhagavān." Bhagavān. That is blasphemy. If Bhagavān likes, such persons should be punished. But Bhagavān excuses. That is another thing. So Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Nobody should try to become equal to Him. That is not possible.



*So here Śukadeva Gosvāmī is addressed as mahā*-bhāga. Mahā means great, and bhāga means fortunate. Because he is very fortunate, he is describing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Again Bhāgavatam, the same word bhaga comes. Bhagavat. Bhagavat. Vat, this word, is used when the meaning is "possessing." Asty arthe vatup. Bhagavān, bhāgyavān and bhagavat. Bhāgavat means one who has power to possess the Supreme Lord. He is called bhāgavata. There are two kinds of bhāgavata: one is grantha-bhāgavata and one is person bhāgavata. A devotee, he is called bhāgavata, and the book in which the pastimes or characteristics of Bhagavān is described, that is called Bhāgavata. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavata... Śrī means beauty. Again vat. Bhagavat, Śrīvat. Śrī means very beautiful. So every śloka you'll find very, very beautiful. Five thousand years ago these verses were written. There is no comparison. Nobody can write such verses even up to date. It was written by Vyāsadeva, Veda-vyasa.

*So mahā*-bhāga yathā eva narakāt naraḥ. So this is Sixth Canto. In the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is description of the hellish condition of life. According to the... Just like there is punishment according to criminality, similarly, there is punishment by nature's law. According to impious life, there is punishment. So people do not care for impious life. That is misfortune. No knowledge. Impious or vicious activities are done out of ignorance. Just like a person commits some criminality without knowing the laws, government laws. Ordinarily, just like in your country, "Keep to the right." If you drive your car on the left side, immediately you become a criminal. So in our country the car is driven on the left side. In this country the car is driven on the right side. So if some Indian gentleman says that "I am accustomed to drive on the left side. So what is wrong there?" "No, this country's law is 'right side.' You know or do not know, whatever may be in your country, because you have driven your car on the left side, you are criminal." So ignorance is no excuse. In the law court if you say, "Sir, it was not known to me," so that does not mean that you will be excused. Similarly, knowingly or unknowingly, if you do something, sinful act, then you are immediately criminal. You'll be punishable. It doesn't matter whether you know or not know. Just like fire. This child, if he touches the fire, the fire will not excuse. There is no consideration, "Sir, here is a little child. He does not know this fire is burning." But as soon as he touches, it will burn. This is nature's law. You infect some disease knowingly or unknowingly, it doesn't matter, but the disease will be manifest. Suppose you have infected smallpox infection, contamination. Then it will be manifest.

*So this education is lacking now. They are... Everyone is thinking that he's independent, he can do whatever he likes. That is not possible. Then you'll be punished. Nature's law is so strict, stringent. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot escape the stringent laws of nature. Little discrepancy... Suppose you can eat eight ounce. If you eat nine ounce, then you will have to starve for three days. There is no excuse. "Why you have eaten more than eight ounce?" The nature says... Just like we require salt in our foodstuff, everyone. But if the salt is little more, it is useless. And if the salt is little less, that is also useless. It must be exactly to the quantity. So nature's law is like that. People, if they simply study nature's law, he becomes a learned scholar. There is no need of going to school, college. But if he sees how nature is working... You can see this flower. Every flower is so beautiful, nicely constructed symmetrically. You'll find two flowers, the small fiber coming out exactly in the same way. There is no question of accident. There is no question of accident. They are also being manipulated by the laws of nature. And what is the laws of nature? The laws of nature is acting under the supervision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*The nature is instrument. Just like any machine. Take typewriter machine. The typewriter machine or any machine, working very nicely, but the machine is not working nicely. The man, the person who is typing, he is doing nicely. There may be wonderful machine, computer, but there must be one actor, one manipulator. So the, this nature is an instrument only. The actually worker is Kṛṣṇa. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. But these rascals, they are praising the machine. They have no information that who is the person, what is the brain behind this machine. That is ignorance. That is the difference between the so-called scientists and devotee. A devotee knows that all these wonderful things which are happening, behind this thing there is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says*-we believe that. And that's a fact. If you paint a very nice flower, how much labor you require. Still, it cannot be so beautiful as the natural flower. So don't think the natural flower has come accidentally. No. It was done by the machine manipulated by Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa understanding. It is confirmed in the śāstra, parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Para, the Supreme, His energies are multi-energies. They are acting the same way the machine is working. You can see potency or the power of a person. Just like you see airplane: the pilot is sitting there, pushing one button. Immediately the turning, such a huge machine is turning, simply by putting button. So this is an arrangement of energy. Similarly, the whole material world is working by putting the button, pushing the button. Don't think it is going on automatically or accidentally. These are all rascaldom. There is hand in everywhere.

So narakāt naraḥ. We should always remember that if we commit some sinful activities there is punishment. That has been described in the previous chapter, Fifth Canto. Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja... That is Vaiṣṇava. Parīkṣit Mahārāja is Vaiṣṇava. He is very unhappy that so many living entities, they are rotting in this naraka, hellish condition of life. So he is asking,

*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi



"I am very sorry that so many living entities are suffering. So if there is any way to give them relief?" That is Vaiṣṇava. And avaiṣṇava sees another person is suffering; he doesn't care: "Let him suffer." We have come to that state. I heard from one of my disciples that here, in New York, if somebody is killed on the road, nobody will care. Is it a fact?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So we have come to that stage of civilization. But Parīkṣit Mahārāja, simply by hearing from Śukadeva Gosvāmī that "A person, if he commits sinful activities, he suffers like that," he is not seeing; *he is compassionate: "How such person can be delivered?" This is the inquiry, that "They are suffering for some sinful activities. How they can be saved?" This is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava is unhappy by seeing others' unhappiness. He has no unhappiness. Personally he has no unhappiness.



Nityānanda Prabhu, He is... Hā hā prabhu nityānanda, premānanda sukhī, kṛpābalokana koro, āmi boro duḥkhī. Nityānanda means... Nitya means eternally; *ānanda means happy. So Nityānanda has no unhappiness, but He was passing on the street, there was a crowd, and Nityānanda Prabhu inquired, "Why there is so much crowd?" So somebody informed that "There are two brothers, Jagāi and Mādhāi, and they are very fallen souls, although they were born in brāhmaṇa family, very nice, rich family. But being addicted to drinking and prostitution, they have become now rogues, thieves, this way. So they are disturbing the whole neighborhood." So Nityānanda Prabhu considered, "So these two brothers are so fallen? So why not deliver them first?" This is Nityānanda Prabhu. "Then My Lord..." Nityānanda Prabhu considered Caitanya Mahāprabhu as His master. So "My master's name will be famous. Because the master's propaganda is 'Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa,' so if I can induce these two brothers to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they will be saved. So why not try?" This is Nityānanda Prabhu, that para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is happy personally, but because He knows that "These drunkards, woman-hunters, prostitute-hunters, will suffer very, very severely, so why not deliver them?" This is Nityānanda Prabhu, Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava, you will find so many others also. In your country there is Lord Jesus Christ. When he was being crucified, still he was saying, "My Lord, excuse them. They do not know what they are doing." This is Vaiṣṇava. They are not unhappy, and they can tolerate any unhappy position. But they are... Therefore they come to deliver so many fallen souls.

*So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja, out of compassion, he inquired from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "These persons, they are rotting in the naraka. Is there any means to deliver them?" That he's saying. Nānā ugra*-yātanā. Ugra-yātanā. These are described. We find also, there are many persons, they are suffering ugra-yāta. Ugra means severe, severe punishment. There are living entities, they are suffering so many ugra-yātanā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save people from the severe punishment of materialistic life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, Kṛṣṇa's movement, is to save. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. Kṛṣṇa said. Kṛṣṇa also very compassionate: "Whenever there is discrepancies, people put themselves in great suffering. Māyā will not excuse. Nature will not excuse. At that time I come to deliver them, to give them instruction, 'Why you are suffering in this way? Do this way.' " Kṛṣṇa says, "Accept this philosophy." What is that? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Always think of Me, become a devotee of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "Worship Me and offer little obeisances unto Me." Four things. It is not difficult. Just like a child, he is offering obeisances, he is offering a flower. This is bhakta. And he is thinking of... Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. Even a child can do. Where is the difficulty? And Kṛṣṇa assures, "If you do these four things," man-manā bhava mad, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65], "without any doubt you'll come back to Me." And people are not agreeing even to do these simple things. Still, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there to teach people how to become devotee and save from the greatest sufferings of hellish condition of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



710721SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6-8

-

New York, July 21, 1971



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa) So today I shall speak to you about glorification of the holy name of God. This was discussed between Mahārāja Parīkṣit and Śukadeva Gosvāmī in connection with one brāhmaṇa who was very much fallen and addicted to all kinds of sinful activities, but he was saved simply by chanting the holy name. So this is from the Sixth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. [SB 6.1.6]



*In the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, the universal planetary system have been very nicely explained, and within the planetary system there is some planet, some planetary system which are called hellish planet. Actually in every scripture, not only in Bhāgavata, in other religious scripture, the description of hell and heaven are there, some way or other. So in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find where are those hellish planets, how it is distant from this planet. Just like modern astronomy, they have got calculation, how far the moon planet is there from here, what is the distance, what is the distance between earthly planet, the sun planet. Similarly, there are hellish planets also. Just like... We have got practical experience. Even on this planet, there are different conditions of atmosphere. Western countries, nearing the North Pole, the climate is different from India because it is near the equator. As there are differences of atmosphere and condition of life within this planet, similarly, there are particular planets also, the condition of life, atmosphere and everything different.

So after hearing all these descriptions of hellish planets... As there are heavenly planets, there are hellish planets also. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquiring from Śukadeva Gosvāmī,

*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

nānā ugra yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi

[SB 6.1.6]



*"Sir, I have heard from you about many hellish planetary description, and the men who are very much sinful, they are put into those planets." But Parīkṣit Mahārāja is a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is always feeling for others' distress. That is Vaiṣṇava. (aside:) Don't make this sound. (indistinct) Vaiṣṇava*-para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They're very much afflicted with others', I mean to say, miserable life. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he presented himself as very much afflicted with others' miserable condition of life. So all the Vaiṣṇavas, devotees... It doesn't matter which country he belongs to or which sect he belongs to. Anyone who is God-conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious... Therefore to blaspheme a Vaiṣṇava, a preacher of God's glory, is great offense. Kṛṣṇa, or God, will never tolerate offense on the lotus feet of a Vaiṣṇava. So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja is asking... Because he's a Vaiṣṇava. Mind that. A Vaiṣṇava is actually feeling... Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī kṛpāmbudhi. These are the adjectives of the qualifications. (aside:) Sit down. Kṛpāmbudhi means ocean of mercy, kṛpāmbudhi. And para-duḥkha-duhkhī. Vāñchā-kalpa-taru. Vāñchā-kalpa-taru means everyone has got desires, but Vaiṣṇava can fulfill all desires. Kalpa-taru. Kalpa-taru means desire tree. There is a tree which is called desire tree. Here, in this material world, you get a fruit, a particular type of fruit, from a particular type of tree. But in Kṛṣṇa-loka or Vaikuṇṭha planets, all the trees, because they're spiritual, so you can get anything you like from any tree. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29]. Kalpa-vṛkṣa means desire tree.



*So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja is asking, adhunā, now, iha mahā*-bhāga. A Vaiṣṇava is addressed as mahā-bhāga. Bhāga means fortunate. One who becomes Vaiṣṇava, God conscious, he is to be understood as great fortunate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore, has said that ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa kono bhāgyavān jīva, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. The living entities are rotating in different species of life, in different planetary system, all over the universe, brahmāṇḍa. Means a living entity can go anywhere, hell, heaven, as he likes, as he prepares himself. So there are many heavenly planets, many hellish planets, many species of life, not only planets. This is varieties, 8,400,000 species of life. So a living entity is rotating, wandering. According to the type of mentality he's creating in the present life, he's getting next life similar body. "As you sow, so you reap." This is going on. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite. The living entity is rotating. Out of them... Millions, numberless living entities are rotating. Out of them, one who is fortunate... Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāga... [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Kono, not all. If all would have been so fortunate, everyone would have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is being distributed freely everywhere. But why they are not taking to it? Because unfortunate. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kono bhāgyavān jīva: "Only one who is fortunate." So because... Why fortunate? Because if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all the problems of his life become solved. But he'll not take to it due to his unfortunate condition. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Only the fortunate persons..." There are many fortunate persons all over the world, and many unfortunate persons also. So those who are fortunate, they're taking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this ideal life, hopeful life, pleasant life, blissful life, life of knowledge. They're taking to it. But it is the duty of Vaiṣṇava to go door to door to make them fortunate. Although they are unfortunate, but you have to go door to door to make them fortunate. That is your duty.

*So a Vaiṣṇava is thinking, mahā*-bhāga, "How these people can be delivered from this hellish condition of life?" That was his inquiry. "Sir, you have described that on account of these sinful activities, he's put into this hellish condition of life or in hellish planetary system. Now what are the countermethods by which they can be saved?" This is the question. This question... Because he is Vaiṣṇava, he is thinking, "Oh, so many living entities are suffering. How they can be saved?" A Vaiṣṇava comes, God also comes and God's son or very confidential devotee also comes. Their only mission is how to save these sinful men who are suffering so much. That is their mission. They have no other mission. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Nṛsiṁhadeva met him, he said a very nice verse. I'll quote that verse. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says one place,

*naiva udvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyāḥ

*tvad*-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ

*śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa indriyārtha-

*māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān

[SB 7.9.43]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My dear Lord, I'm not very much anxious for my deliverance." Because Māyāvādī philosophers, they are very much, I mean to say, careful, that "My salvation may..., may..., may not be interrupted. If I go to preach, and in association with others, if I fall down, then my business will be finished." So they do not come. Only Vaiṣṇava comes at the risk of their falldown. They do not fall down, but they go even to the hell to deliver. So Prahlāda, this is Prahlāda Mahārāja's admission. He says that na udvije: "I'm not very much anxious or perturbed because I am living in this material world." Naivodvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyāḥ. Vaitaraṇyāḥ means this hellish condition of life, how to cross the river of hellish condition of life. So "I have no anxiety for that." Why you are not anxious? Now, he says, tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ: [SB 7.9.43] "Because some way or other, I have been trained to be always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore I have no anxiety." There is a confidence. One who is purely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's confident that next life he's going to Kṛṣṇa. So if we simply carefully execute our Kṛṣṇa conscious regulative principles, it is sure, actually. In the Bhagavad-gītā that is stated.



*Then Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "There is only one anxiety for me." Just see. He has no anxiety for himself, but he has still anxiety. What is that? Śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa. "I am anxious. I am anxious for these persons who are not persons..., who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is my anxiety. For me, I have no anxiety. But I am thinking of these persons who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious." Why they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious? Now, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān: [SB 7.9.43] "These rascals, they have created a civilization, a humbug civilization, (laughter) for temporary happiness." Māyā-sukhāya. Actually, this is the fact, humbug civilization. So many cars are being manufactured every year, and for that purpose so many roads have to be excavated, prepared, and... Problems after problems. Therefore it is māyā-sukha. We are trying to be happy this way, manufacture some way, but it creates another problem. I am giving this particular example of motorcar because in your country you have got the greatest number of cars. But that does not solve the problem. You have manufactured cars. I have practical experience. When Dayānanda wanted to take me to a doctor from Los Angeles, it is thirty miles off. Thirty miles off. So I had to take trouble to go thirty miles and come thirty miles before I could consult the doctor. You see? And if you have created cars, then you must have meet your friends and necessities thirty miles off, forty miles off. You can go from New York to Boston in one hour, but go to the airport you will take three hours. (laughter) Therefore it is called māyā-sukhāya. (laughter) Māyā means false, illusory. We are trying to create some very comfortable situation, but creating another uncomfortable situation. This is called māyā-su... This is the way of... If you do not be satisfied by the natural comforts offered by God, or nature, if you want to create artificial comfort, then you have to create another discomfort for counteracting. They do not know that. They are thinking that "We are creating very comfortable situation." Fifty miles going to the office. For earning livelihood, fifty miles, from one place to another. I saw in Hawaii. When Gaurasundara was working to maintain our temple, he was working. Unfortunately, he had to go fifty miles off from the temple to work for it. So I was very sorry to see how this boy is going fifty miles. How Kṛṣṇa will say? But Kṛṣṇa has given us chance. Now they haven't got to work.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "These vimūḍhān, these materialistic persons, these rascals..." He has exactly used this word, vimūḍhān. Mūḍha I have already explained several times in connection with Bhagavad*-gītā. Mūḍha means rascals. And here Prahlāda Mahārāja uses another nice word with addition, "vi." Vimūḍhān. Vi means viśeṣa, "particularly." The vimūḍhān... Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahataḥ: "They have created unnecessary burden on their shoulder simply for temporary happiness." Temporary happiness. Therefore, in the Vedic civilization, a sannyāsa, renounced order of life, is recommended for prosecuting spiritual life absolutely without any anxiety. If one can execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness in family life, that's very good. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He was a family man, magistrate. Still, he executed devotional service so nicely. Dhruva Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they are, they were gṛhastha, householders, but they trained themselves in such a nice way that even householder, as a householder, there was no interruption. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "I have learned the art, how to remain always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." What is that? Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta: "Simply glorifying the," I mean to, "the victorious activities, pastimes of the Lord." Tvad-vīrya. Vīrya means very strenuous, very heroic. Vīrya means heroic. So Kṛṣṇa's activities are all heroic. You can read from Kṛṣṇa book. Tvad-vīrya-gāyana. Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's fame, Kṛṣṇa's activities, Kṛṣṇa's associates-everything is heroic. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "For me, I am certain, wherever I shall go, I can glorify Your heroic activities and I am, I mean to say, saved. There is no question of my falling down. But I wish... I am simply anxious for these persons who have created a type of civilization that they are always busy and working hard. So I am thinking of them."

*prāyeṇa deva munayaḥ sva*-vimukti-kāmā

*maunaṁ caranti vijane na parārtha*-niṣṭhāḥ

naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān vimumukṣa eko

nānyaṁ tvad asya śaraṇaṁ bhramato 'nupaśye

[SB 7.9.44]



*He says, "My dear Lord, there are many saintly persons, sages..." Munaya. Munaya means saintly persons, philosophers. Prāyeṇa deva munayaḥ sva*-vimukti-kāmā: "They are very much interested for their own liberation." Sva-muk. Sva means "own." Sva-vimukti-kāmā. And maunaṁ caranti vijane na parārtha-niṣṭhāḥ: "They try to live in solitary place, in Himalaya Mountain, maunam, not talk to anyone, caranti..." Because they are always afraid that "If I mix with these ordinary people in the cities, I may be disturbed, I may fall down. Better let me save myself first of all." So Prahlāda Mahārāja regretting that these great saintly persons, they do not come in the city where they have manufactured a civilization, all day and night working hard. So... "But I am anxious for them." This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's philosophy (?). Maunaṁ caranti vijane parārtha-niṣṭhāḥ, na parartha niṣṭhāḥ: "They are not very much compassionate with these fallen people who are unnecessarily working so hard simply for sense gratification." If there is some substance in that working hard, no, they do not know what is the substance. And at most they know sex. That's all. Working so hard day and night. And what is satisfaction? Either naked dance, go to the naked club or this or that. That's all. (laughter) Maunaṁ caranti vijane.



But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān vimumukṣa ekaḥ: "My Lord, I do not require salvation alone. Unless I take all these fools with me, I'll not go." (laughter) He refuses to go the kingdom of God without taking all these fallen souls. Just see. This is Vaiṣṇava. He says, naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān vimumukṣa ekaḥ: "Then what is your process? You are very ambitious. That's all right. You want to take all of them with you to the kingdom of God, but what process?" People may ask, "How you are going to do that?" He says, nānyam tvad asya-śaraṇaṁ bhramato 'nupaśye: "I simply want to teach them how to surrender unto You. That's all. That is my process." Because he knows, as soon as he surrenders, his path is clear. Because Kṛṣṇa assures,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



So simply, somehow or other, let them bow down before Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Very simple method. As soon as you bow down before Kṛṣṇa with faith: "My Lord, Kṛṣṇa, I was forgetful of Yourself so long, so many lives. Now I have come to consciousness. Please accept me." That's all. If people simply learn this technique and sincerely surrenders himself to the Lord, his path is immediately open.



So these are the Vaiṣṇava philosophical thought, how they are thinking for the conditioned souls, fallen souls, how they can be delivered. They are making plan in that way. They are, they always they busy in that business, how to deliver. Just like Gosvāmīs, about the six Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana, Lord Caitanya's direct disciples, what was their business? That is stated by Śrīnivāsācārya,

*nānā-śāstra*-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau

*lokānāṁ hita*-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*So they were busy, nānā-śāstra*-vicāraṇaika. They were consulting many authoritative scriptures, how to put people in the right religious way of life. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika, sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Why? Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, actually for doing welfare activities to the people in general, not for themselves. A Vaiṣṇava is liberated, and he can keep himself liberated always, anywhere, any place, without any hindrance, simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma... So... But still they are very much anxious for the conditioned souls. [break] Similarly, here also, Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that "Śukadeva Gosvāmī, you have described about the different types of hellish condition of life. Now, how they can be delivered? Kindly explain." Adhuneha mahā-bhāga yathaiva narakān naraḥ. Nara means human beings. "Those who are fallen, how they can be delivered?" Narakān naraḥ nānā ugra-yātanān neyāt. Ugra yātanān, very, I mean to say, fierceful miseries, yātanān. Yātanān, pains, horrible pains. Ugra. Ugra means horrible, very strong pain, painful life. "How they can be delivered?" Nānā ugra-yātanān, tan me vyākhyātum arhasi: "If you kindly explain how they can be delivered?" That is Vaiṣṇava heart. "Never mind. Some way or other, they have fallen down to this condition, this hellish condition of life, but that does not mean that they should remain in that condition of life. There must be some ways and means by which they can be delivered. So if you kindly explain that."



Now, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says,

na ced ihaiva apacatiṁ yathāmhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti ye

*kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ

[SB 6.1.7]



*"Yes, I have already described the different types of hellish condition, and there are very severe, painful life. But one has to counteract it*-how? They are... These kinds of sinful activities are committed in various ways." He says that kṛtasya kuryān mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. We can commit sinful activities by mind. If I think of something, committing, "I shall kill that man," if I make plan... So even if do not kill that man, simply because I am thinking of killing that man, that is also sinful. Ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Thinking, mind... Thinking, feeling, willing-then there is action. So here it is said, mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Just like the, the other day I was reading in some book that if you are passing on road, if other's dog barks, then that is an, that is an offense on the part of the dog-owner, according to law. So why one should be scared by dog barking? One should take care of the dog. I have read it. This is a law in your country. So it is simply barking, but it is sinful. It is sinful not because he... It is animal, but the owner of the animal, who has made the dog as a best friend, he's responsible by law. (laughter) He's responsible. That is your law in the country I am speaking. He's responsible. If any dog, outside dog, enters your house, the dog may not be killed, but the owners of the dog may be prosecuted. I have read this. So similarly, if a barking of dog is unlawful, so when you speak something offensive to others, that is sinful. That is also like barking. Therefore sinful activities are committed in so many ways. We are so much dependent. If we think of sinful activities or if we speak something sinful activities, ukta-pāṇibhiḥ, or we commit something sinful activities with hands, they're all sinful activities. Dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti.



*So one has to suffer. People, they do not believe next life because they want to avoid this botheration. But there... You cannot avoid this botheration. If you do not go according to law... As there is punishment even in this state of our life*-if I commit some sins, criminal activities, the state will punish me-similarly, if we do something which is punishable, I may avoid the state law, but I cannot avoid God's law. That is not possible. I can hide myself, cheating others, or committing theft, and that, thereby I save myself from the punishment of the state laws, but I cannot save myself from the superior law, the law of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. It is very difficult. There are so many witnesses. The daylight is witness. The moonlight is witness. These are described. You cannot say that "I am committing these things. Nobody is seeing me. There is no witness. So how I can be...?" And the supreme witness is Kṛṣṇa. He is sitting within your heart. He is noting down what you are thinking, what you are doing. He is giving facility also. If you wanted to do something to satisfy your senses, so Kṛṣṇa is giving facility. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. "From Me, there is remembrance, knowledge," smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca, "and forgetfulness."

So Kṛṣṇa gives us chance. If you want Kṛṣṇa, then He will give you full chance how to have Kṛṣṇa. And if you don't want Kṛṣṇa, then He'll give you full chance how to forget Kṛṣṇa. Two things are going on. If you want to forget... If you want to enjoy life, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, forgetting God, then Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities so that you can forget Him. And if you want to enjoy life with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa will give you chance how to make your progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is up to you. If you think that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness you'll be happy, do that. Kṛṣṇa does not object to that. Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Kṛṣṇa, after advising Arjuna, He simply inquired, "Now I have explained to you everything. Whatever you desire you can now do." So immediately Arjuna replied, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]: "Now I shall execute Your order." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. God does not interfere with your little independence. If you want to act according to the order of God, then God will help you. Even sometimes you fall down, if you become sincere that "From this time, I shall remain Kṛṣṇa conscious and execute His orders," then Kṛṣṇa will help you, in all respects. Even you fall down, He'll excuse you and He will give more intelligence, "Don't do this. Now go on with your duty." But if you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, if you want to become happy without Kṛṣṇa, He, He'll give you so many chances that you'll forget Kṛṣṇa, you'll forget. Life after life. That's all.

So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that... It is not that if I say "There is no God," there will be no God, and whatever I do, that will not be, I'll not be responsible for that. That is atheistic theory. Atheists do not want God because they're always sinful, and if they think of God, that there is God, then there is a great risk of punishment. They shudder. Therefore they deny God. That is their process. Because if they forget God, there is God, then there is no punishment. He can do whatever he likes. Just like the animals. The rabbits, when they're attacked by a greater animal, they close their eyes. (laughter) He thinks that "I'm not going to be killed." That's all. But he's killed. Similarly, we may deny the existence of God, the law of God, the exigencies of God, but they are already there. Just like in the... Why God? In state, if you say, "I don't care for God," er, I mean, "state, government," but you'll be forced to accept government laws. You'll be put into the prison house, and you'll be forced. "Because you denied the state laws, now you suffer." Similarly, I may decry the existence of God, "There is no God. I am God." That you may think, foolishly, like that. But you are responsible for all your activities, either good or bad. It doesn't matter.

There are two kind of activities: good or bad. If you act nicely, pious activities, then you get good chance. And if you act sinfully, then you have to suffer. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says,

*tasmāt puraivāśu iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau

yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā

*doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā

bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit

[SB 6.1.8]



There are different kinds of, what is called, condonement? Prāyaścitta? What is that exact English? Con...? Yes.



Devotee: Condiment?



Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of condonement?



Devotees: Condemnation?



Prabhupāda: Not condemnation



Devotees: Relish, spices, etc.



Prabhupāda: No, no, not condiment. Condone.



Devotees: Oh, condone, Sanction, approval.



Prabhupāda: No. Suppose if you commit some sin and counteract it by some other thing. What is called? Just like in Christian Bible there is...?



Devotees: Confession, atonement...



*Prabhupāda: Atonement, yes. (laughter) That's it. Atonement. I was forgetting this word. Atonement. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī suggests that you should know the responsibility, and according to the gravity of sinful life, you should accept some type of atonement as they are described in the śāstras. Actually, according to Vedic way of life, there is a class of brāhmaṇas who... Just like you go when you are diseased. You go to the doctor for atonement, for paying doctor's bill, similarly, they go to a bhaṭṭācārya. The bhaṭṭācārya is supposed to give him prescription that "I've committed such sins, sir. What is my atonement?" He gives you a prescription that "You do like this." So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that "According to the gravity of sinful life, one has to execute the prescribed atonement." Exactly... He gives the example, doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit [SB 6.1.8]. Exactly like when you go to consult a physician, he prescribes a nice medicine or costly medicine, according to the gravity of the disease. If you have simply some headache, he may prescribe you something like aspirin. But if you have got something else, very severe, he immediately prescribes that "It has to be surgically operated, and the expenditure will be one thousand dollars." (laughter)



*So similarly, this is also diseased condition, to... (aside:) Don't... Down. Atonement, the sinful life, this is also diseased condition. Just like we have accepted this chain of birth and death. This is diseased condition of the soul. The soul has no birth and death, no disease. Because it is spirit soul. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na jāyate: "Soul has no birth." Na mriyate: "It has no death." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "Soul is eternal," śāśvataḥ, "existing everlasting. Don't think that it is lost along with the dissolution of this body. No." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Na hanyate means it is not killed, or it is destroyed, even after the destruction of this body. This is the missing point of modern civilization. They do not know... There is no educational system in the university, what happens after death. There is no such educational system. The most defective education, because without this knowledge, what happens after death, without this knowledge, one who is dying without this knowledge, he's an animal. The animal does not know that what he's going to have, another body, how it is... He has no such knowledge. But human life is not meant for becoming an animal, simply interested in eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. You may have very nice arrangement for eating or you may have very nice building for sleeping, or you may have very good arrangement for sex life, or you may have very good defense force to protect yourself. But that does not mean that you are in human civilization. That type of civilization is there in the animal life. They are also interested in eating. They are also interested in sleeping. They're also interested in sex life. And according to their own method, they defend also. Then where is the distinction between a human life and animal life if you are simply engaged with these four principles of our bodily necessities?

*The distinction is when a human being is inquisitive, "Why I am put into this miserable condition of life? Is there any remedy? Is there any perpetual, eternal life? I want I shall not die. I shall live very happily and peacefully. Whether there is such chance? What is that method? What is that science?" When these inquiries will be there and steps should be taken for answering the question, that is human civilization. Otherwise it is dog's civilization. If there is no such inquiry, then it is animal. Animals are satisfied if they can eat something and sleep and have some sex life and some defense. That's all. There is no defense, actually, because nobody can protect himself from the hands of the cruel death. Therefore Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to live forever, and he underwent severe austerities. The so*-called scientists are also saying that "By scientific method we shall stop death." This is also another crazy utterances. That is not possible. You may make very much advance in scientific knowledge, but there is no solution, by your so-called science, of these four problems: birth, death, old age and disease. There is no solution. Therefore, one who is intelligent, he'll be eager, how to solve these four prime problems. That is intelligence. Because nobody wants to die. "Why shall I die?" But there is no remedy. I have to die. The... Everyone is very much anxious to stop increase of population by so many contraceptive methods. But still, birth is going on. So there is no stoppage of death. There is no stoppage of birth. And you might have invented very nice medicine by your scientific method, up-to-date medicines, but you cannot stop the disease. Just discover a tablet that you take this tablet-there will be no more any disease. That is not possible. Disease will be there. You can invent some better medicine. That is, that is the way. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. One might think that he has solved all the problems of his life, but where is the solution of these four problems: birth, death, old age and disease? That is intelligence.

*But there is a solution. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*"If anyone understands about My appearance and disappearance and activities in truth, not superficially, in truth..." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ means truth, not superficially, ephemerally. Actually. What he gains? He gains that tyaktvā deham, after giving up this body... Because we have to give up this body, every one of us. We are giving up body every moment. So the last phase of giving up this body is called death. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā deham... After giving up this body, punar janma naiti, he does not accept any more a material body. Why? Mām eti. Because he returns back to Kṛṣṇa. When you have to go to Kṛṣṇa, then you have to prepare your body, spiritual body. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If your keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then gradually you make, you prepare your next body, spiritual body, which carries you immediately to Kṛṣṇa*-loka, and you become happy and live there perpetually, blissfully.



Thank you very much. (end)



680912SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.6-15

-

San Francisco, September 12, 1968



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So we have been discussing the talks between Śukadeva Gosvāmī and Mahārāja Parīkṣit. The question is how one can be delivered from the miserable condition of hellish life. The nature's illusory methods are two kinds: one is covering energy, and another is throwing energy. Nature is acting upon us in two ways. Just like somebody may think that "Here is a nice movement, Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. Let me take part in this." And nature dictates, "Why shall you go there? Don't go there. Better enjoy like this." This is throwing energy. Throws him from the path. And another is covering energy. Covering energy means a person or a living entity may remain in the most abominable condition, still, he thinks he's happy. He's happy. Just like you have seen many friends in the diseased condition on the bed. And if you go to see him, "How you are feeling?" and he'll say, "Yes, I am all right." He's on the diseased condition. What is the meaning of this "all right"? This is also covering energy. So anyone, in a..., however... A dog, in such abominable condition, still, he's joyful. He thinks, "I am very happy." A hog, any animal... We are human beings; we are given better facilities of life. The animals are not given so much facilities by nature, but still, they feel happy. If we say, of course, straight, somebody may be sorry, but this is nature's law. So however abominable condition it may be, one feels that he's happy.



*So these two kinds of things are going on, parallel. But actually, everyone who is encaged in this material body, he's unhappy. That is the sum and substance of the whole material existence. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samān. In the dual world or in this material world, what we have manufactured that "This is very nice and this is not nice"-this bad or good conception*-he says that it is simply mental concoction. Actually, there is nothing good here. One should be very much pessimistic. Otherwise, he'll have to remain in the darkness of ignorance of this material nature. One should thoroughly understand that we are in a very precarious condition of this material... Because they have no information that there is happy life, there is eternal life, there is blissful life. They have no information. They think, "This is the life. So let us adjust things as far as possible." This is the covering energy of material energy.

So Mahārāja Parīkṣit asks,

*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi

[SB 6.1.6]



"Please explain to me how one can become free from this hellish condition of life." We are not only living very unhappy while we are in life; after death there are so many miserable conditions, hellish conditions, transmigration of the soul from one body to another. That is also very miserable condition. And to remain in the body of a dog or hog, that sort of degradation is also there. And again to come even in the human body, in the womb of the mother, that is also very miserable condition. Now this child, the small child, he's protesting that "I'm not in comfortable condition. Mother, take me in this way." So mother is trying to satisfy him. So always, always. That thing has to be understood, that so long we are in this material world, the miseries will continue. So a very intelligent question, that "How one can get out of this miserable life?"



So he answered,

na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāmhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ

[SB 6.1.7]



*Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he said that "I have already described the different kinds of hellish conditions. So unless one atones his sinful life, one has to suffer such hellish conditional life." Tasmāt puraivāśv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā [SB 6.1.8]. Therefore it is everyone's duty that before you meet death, you atone your sinful activities. And what is that example he's giving? Doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru-lāghavaṁ yathā bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit [SB 6.1.8]. Just like when one is diseased, if he does not make proper treatment immediately, that disease may increase and cause fatal. Everyone knows that, that when he's diseased... So diseased condition means sinful condition. Diseased condition means suffering, and suffering means sinful, reaction of sinful activities. So the prescription is that as one goes to the physician, similarly, for treatment of his disease-otherwise it may prove fatal-similarly, one should atone the sinful activities as they are prescribed in different scriptures. That is the prescription.



*It is said in the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita śloka that three things you should not neglect. What is that? Fire and debts and disease. Suppose you are sitting here, and there is small fire in the corner, some cigarette butts or something like that. You should not neglect it. Never think, "Oh, it is small fire. It will extinguish automatically." No. It may take a very, I mean to say, blazing shape at any moment. So one should not neglect fire. Similarly, debts also. If somebody thinks, "Oh, I have got this hundred, thousand dollars I am indebted. All right I shall see to it." After some years it may increase to five thousand dollars. So similarly, disease also. Suppose you are thinking that "Oh, this is nothing. It will cure out of itself." No. That is the instruction. So we should not neglect. And in the Manu*-saṁhitā it is enjoined that when a man is a murderer, that we have got practical experience, the king condemns him to death. And the Manu-saṁhitā supports that it is good. It is good for him. In every country and every law that "life for life" is good. Because if he's hanged in this life, then next life he hasn't got to suffer. His all sinful reaction is finished, being hanged. Therefore in every state, and especially in the Manu-saṁhitā, it is said that it is king's mercy when a person is hanged for his murdering sinful activities; *it is to be thought that king's mercy. So because we have to suffer for any... Just like if we take more food, then we have to suffer*-indigestion or something else. This is nature's law. Either you be careful, or if there is some sinful reaction, be, I mean to say, alarmed, and take care of it. Otherwise, the suffering will increase. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī advises that as... In India still, the practice is if somebody commits some sinful activity he goes to a learned paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa, "Sir, this thing has been done by me. So what is the atonement?" He prescribes something. Of course, in this way some business is also going on. (chuckling) But actually one should atone. That is the statement of Śukadeva Gosvāmī.

Now the king is very intelligent. He's putting next question,

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

janānn apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārtham

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]



Very intelligent question. "My dear sir, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, I can understand that one should take care of his sinful reaction and atone for it as prescribed in the śāstras. But my question is that," dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpam [SB 6.1.9], "one sees that due to this sinful activity one is suffering." Dṛṣṭa. Dṛṣṭa means actually personal experience, face to face. How is that? A man has killed somebody, murder, and he's going to be hanged. Everyone sees it. Then why does he commit the same thing? He has seen it that "My friend committed a murder." Or forget murdering..., committed something else which is against the law of the state, and he's punished. Dṛṣṭa-śruta. Dṛṣṭa means by seeing, and sruta means by hearing. Just like you are hearing. We are all hearing from authoritative scripture. This is called śruta, śruti, hearing. Not this scripture. Everyone has heard that if you commit theft, then you'll go to prison for six months. I may not have practical experience; I have heard it, and I see it also, that this man has committed theft and he's going to prisonhouse. He's arrested by the police and he's going. So dṛṣṭa-śruta. One hears, also practically sees. So dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpam [SB 6.1.9], that if one commits some sinful activities, and other sees it, and he also sees it, and he has heard it from scripture, still, janānn apy ātmano 'hitam. Ātmano, he knows that "This is not good for me." Ātmanā, ātmanā means for the soul. The soul is suffering, and he sees practically that "This is not good for me." "Me" means I am as soul. Because I have to travel or transmigrate in so many species of life, he knows. So he has heard it from the scripture, he's seeing that there is suffering. But karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ: still, he commits the same sin, vivaśaḥ. Vivaśaḥ means just like somebody is forcing him to do it. Something forced. A thief has committed theft and he has gone to a prisonhouse. He's suffering, and he's thinking that "Next time I shall not do like this. This is very troublesome." But as soon as he comes out, again he commits the same thing.



There is a very nice proverb. It is said in Bengali that a woman, when she is in pain of labor, delivering child, she thinks that "Next time I shall never be pregnant." But after that (chuckling) again she becomes pregnant. You see? She knows the trouble of giving delivery to a child, and she promises that "Next time I shall..." Of course, nowadays there are so many contraceptive methods. But this is a proverb. So a diseased man, he has gone to the physician. He's suffering from a chronic disease. He knows the cause. Doctor says that "You have done this; *therefore you are suffering." But after cure he again does the same thing. Why? This is the real problem. Why does he do so? He has seen, he has experienced. Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja says, kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt [SB 6.1.10]. By such experience, by hearing and seeing, sometimes he refrains that "No, I shall not do these things. It is very troublesome. Last time I had so much trouble." And kvacic carati tat punaḥ: and sometimes he again commits the same mistake. Prāyaścittam atho 'pārthaṁ manye kuñjara-śaucavat [SB 6.1.10]. "Therefore, my dear sir, I think this so*-called atonement is useless." Useless. Because the prescribed atonement he performs, suppose he becomes free from the sin, but why again he commits? Therefore he says, manye kuñjara-śaucavat.

*He's giving very nice example*-kuñjara-śaucavat. Kuñjara means elephant. In your country you don't see elephant. We are... In India, we have seen. Not nowadays. Still, there are some, but fifty years before there were many elephants. Especially the zamindars, the landlords and the native princes, they used to keep so many elephants. They used to spend for it... To keep elephant means it is very expensive job. So elephant, there is a particular type of lake where elephants are allowed to take their bath. So if anyone has not seen it, the elephant will take bath very nicely, wash the body very nicely. And as soon as he come over the land, he takes some dust from the land and throws over the body again. Immediately. In that wet body he will cover the whole body with dust. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is giving very nice example, kuñjara-śaucavat: just like cleansing the body of an elephant. It cleanses very nicely, that's all right, but as soon as come out of the water... We have to study all these things from nature. The elephant is so big, and it is supposed to be the biggest animal. And he has got great strength, but how fool he is, just see. Just after taking bath it will cover the whole body with dust.

*Bādarāyaṇir uvāca*-now he's answering. Rujāṁ rogānāṁ nidānavid yathā vaidyas tad anurūpaṁ cikitseta (?). Atra codayati dvābhyām. Hm. This is already finished. Yathā kuñjara-snāna rajobhir ātmānaṁ malīni karoti tathā pāpasya punar durṇivāratvena naraka-pātasya avaśyaṁ prāyaścittaṁ vyārtham iti So if there is possibility of gliding down to the hellish condition of life by committing sinful activities, now supposing one makes atonement for such activities and again he commits, then what is the use of it? Simply... Just like you kindle fire and pour water on it. Then what is the use of kindling fire? So,

*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iṣyate

avidvad adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam

[SB 6.1.11]



*Now Śukadeva Gosvāmī is answering the question, that so long one is in ignorance, so long one is in the..., one's heart is full with dirty things, so he may commit sinful activities or he may counteract it by atonement. But so long the dirty thing is within the heart, it is all useless. Therefore our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as it is said by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], one has to cleanse the dirty things from the heart. That is real atonement. If the dirty things are there as it is, simply... Just like one man is diseased. The dirty things are within his body, and he cleanses outwardly with soap and water very nicely, that does not mean that he is freed from the diseased condition. The cause of the disease must be removed. Then he'll be healthy. Simply by superfluous washing the body, one does not become free from diseased condition. So avidvad-adhikāritvāt. So long... Avidvad means ignorance. So ignorance, what is the ignorance? The ignorance we have explained many times, that "I am this body." And everyone is acting on this bodily concept of life. This is called avidyā. Avidyā means ignorance. So avidvad-adhikāritvāt prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. So there is no utility for atonement if that ignorance, the dirty things, exist in the heart.



nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo 'bhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāyā kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



*(reads Śrīdhāra Swami's commentary:) Avidvan adhikārī yasmin tasya bhāvas tattvaṁ tathā, avidyā naśāthavād naṣṭe 'pi tasmin pāpe tat saṁskāraṇa pāpāntarasya punaḥ punaḥ prāroho bhavati. Tat tu nimitta*-pramattaḥ śanair labhate nānya iti sadṛṣṭāntam āha. Pathyam eva annam aśnataḥ puruṣān yathā vyādhayo na bādhante tathā niyamādi kārtā kṣemāya tattva-jñānāya samartho bhavati. Very nice. He says just like a person who is following the rules and regulation prescribed by the physician. A man may be diseased. Every one of us is, some way or other, we are diseased. This material body means we are in diseased condition. So he is giving very nice example, that,



nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo 'bhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāyā kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



*Just like in diseased condition of life there are some restraints. Doctor says that "You are suffering from diabetes. You should not take sugar. You should not take sugar, you should not eat this thing, that thing," so many restriction. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that niyama-kṛd, if you follow the regulation and rules of life, then śanaiḥ ksemāya kalpate, then very soon that dirty things of the heart can be cured. Just like we prescribe. Not prescribe*-it is already there in the śāstras. Our students, those who are initiated specially, we say that "Don't have illicit sex life, don't take part in gambling, don't take foodstuff except vegetables, and don't take intoxicants." Four rules. So if these four rules are followed, gradually, gradually, one becomes free from the dirty things of the heart.



So one has to follow. Simply I am diseased and I take some immediate medicine, it may give me some temporary benefit, but that is not cure. If you have to cure yourself, then you have to follow the rules and regulation prescribed by the physician. And what are the rules and regulation? He says,

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*Tapasā. Tapasā means austerity. Austerity. Suppose if you are habituated to some bad habits. Suppose you smoke, and the prescription is, "Don't take intoxicants." Smoking is intoxication. Now if you have to follow the rules, you cannot smoke, it will be troublesome for you. Because you are habituated to smoke, and I say "You don't smoke," it will be very difficult for you. You are habituated to unrestricted sex life, and if I say that "Don't have illicit sex life," it will be troublesome for you. Similarly, so many things are there, we are habituated, and if they are restricted there will be some trouble. So voluntarily accepting some trouble is called tapasya, or austerity. Just like a patient, if he wants to be cured, he has to follow the restriction imposed by the physician. And he follows it. Just like doctor says it, "Oh, you cannot get up. You must lie down twenty*-four hours." He doesn't like it, but he has to do it. This is called tapasya, austerity. Penance. Austerity. Just like we say that on the ekādaśī day you should fast. So fasting is not very, I mean to say, pleasant, but one has to do. This is called tapasya. Brahmacaryeṇa. Brahmacaryeṇa means celibacy. The more you restrain your sex life, the more you become strong for spiritual life. Brahmacaryeṇa. Brahma..., brahmacarya means to restrain, control sex life. Therefore somebody asked me, "Swamiji, why you are stressing so much on married life?" I have given this answer to many gentleman in the television, that because we have got a demand for sex life. But if we are restricted with married life, then there is no, I mean to say, illicit sex life. At least we refrain from that.



*So it is stated here. These are the rules. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Brahmacarya means celibacy, and śamena, control the mind. Damena, control the senses. If you can control your mind, then you can control your senses. In the mind is the center of sense activities. If you can control the mind, then easily you can control the senses. And the easiest process of controlling the mind is to fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is all*-powerful. If He is seated on your mind, there will be no chance for anything nonsense coming into your mind. Śamena ca damena ca, and tyāgena. Tyāgena means by renunciation. These things are to be practiced. It is not that you can go on doing all nonsense and you become (chuckling) spiritually advanced. If somebody says like that, he is simply cheating. He's cheating. Just like a nonsense doctor may say that "You simply pay my fees, and you can do all kinds of nonsense and you'll be cured." You see. This sort of doctor nobody consults. You see. He says that "You come and pay me my fees, and I shall give you a mantra. You'll be cured, and you can do all kinds of nonsense." Will anybody go to that doctor? Any sane man? Similarly, if somebody says that "You can do whatever you like. You take this mantra and pay me my fees, and you'll be highly advanced in spiritual consciousness," these things we do not find in the authorized books, or Vedic literature. They're all manufactured just to flatter and just to earn some money.

But actually, if you are serious, then as it is stated, that you have to follow the regulation, austerity, celibacy, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, by renunciation, by truthfulness, by cleanliness, and by following the rules and regulations. This is stated.

*deha*-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā

dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ

kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api

*veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ

[SB 6.1.14]



*Now he is giving very nice example. Veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ. Just like in the dry season there are so many dry grasses from the field, and if you have to clear the field, you simply set fire on the field and everything automatically becomes cleansed. Similarly, deha-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ. Those who are intelligent enough, dharmajñāḥ, one who knows what is real religious principle, and śraddhayānvitāḥ, and who is faithful, he can get out of all kinds of sinful activities by an intelligent method. What is that intelligent method?



kecit kevalaya bhaktyā

vāsudeva parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



*That he says that simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness or devotional service, pure devotional service, vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ... Vāsudeva means Kṛṣṇa. One who is devoted to Kṛṣṇa, simply by that devotional process, and always being in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, agham dhunvanti kārtsnyena. one can get out of all sinful reactions. How? Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Nīhāram means dews. You have seen in this season, so many dews are on the grass, on the tree. As soon as there is sunrise, everything finished. Everything finished. It is very nice example. So if you bring forth the sun of Kṛṣṇa... These are all products... These sinful activities is due to ignorance. Ignorance is darkness, māyā, and Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just like the sun. Now this is night; *everything is dark. If some way or other there is sunrise, then immediately the darkness is finished. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that kecit. Kecit. Kecit means it is not possible for all, but some fortunate men do like this instead of going to so many details how to get out of this sinful reaction, simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service, vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ, those who are devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa, agham... Agham means all kinds of sinful reaction. Dhunvanti kārtsnyena. Wholesale. Kārtsnyena means wholesale. Kārtsnyena nihāram. Nihāram means just like dews, bhāskaraḥ means sun. As the sun disseminates immediately, dissipates immediately the dews without any effort, similarly, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become free from all sinful reaction.



*Another thing, this is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā also, that the Lord says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all kinds of bodily religious principles of life." What is that? Kṛṣṇa is asking sarva-dharmān. Dharma means religious principles. Now in one place He says that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, "I have come to reestablish the religious principle," and at the end He says sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Sarva-dharmān. This sarva-dharmān, all kinds of religious principles pertaining to the bodily concept of life. We present ourselves that "I am Hindu" or "I am Christian," "I am Muhammadan..." [break] (kīrtana) (end)



670301SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.7

-

San Francisco, March 1, 1967



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So last night in our meeting, we were... Not last night; day before last night. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, King Parīkṣit, is very much, I mean to say, compassionate by hearing different kinds of miserable conditions in different hellish situation. He is asking Śukadeva Gosvāmī whether there is any possibility of delivering them. Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord, is always anxious to reclaim the fallen souls, who, out of ignorance, they are suffering. We must know always that by ignorance only we suffer. Just like we have got practical experience: by ignorance if I take something which is not suitable for my constitution, I become ill, sick. So that sickness is due to my ignorance. I have seen in Calcutta one neighbor, he died out of ignorance. He took too much pakori one day, and they were fried in oil, and the next day he was attacked by cholera and died. So similarly, whatever suffering we are undergoing, that is due to our ignorance.



*Actually, we are not meant for suffering. If we are sons of God, who is full with all opulence, why should we suffer? Does a rich man's son suffer anytime? If he suffers, it is due to his ignorance. Similarly, we are suffering, but our ignorance is so strong that we are suffering, but at the same time we are thinking that we are happy. This is the influence of ignorance. Just like last night in the television, that gentleman was talking with me. He said that "We have got good brain and we are utilizing it. So that is better for our advancement of happiness. Why Hare Kṛṣṇa?" His idea was, he plainly told me, that "If Hare Kṛṣṇa is so powerful, then why India is so poverty*-stricken and they are suffering?" So I replied that "Do you think that your problems are solved because you have got a dozens or a hundreds dozens of skyscrapers? That problem is here also. It is not that because America is materially advanced, 'Oh, they are free from all sufferings.' Why there are so many hospitals? Why there are so many lunatic asylums? Why this confusion of the hippies? Why young boys are always disturbed for the draft board? So how can you say the Americans are free from all sufferings?" This is ignorance. The sufferings are there, here or India or hell or heaven-anywhere within this material world-there is suffering. But people are so foolish that simply having a nice motorcar or a skyscraper building, he thinks that "My all problems are solved." He does not know that this life is a flash only. I am eternal.

Suppose I have got some comfortable situation as born as American. How long shall I remain American? Say, fifty years or hundred years. That's all. Then finish. Get out of the skyscraper building. Throw away your motorcar. Go to the graveyard. And then, what is next life? That I do not know. That I do not know. The life is continuous. Vāsāṁsi jīrnāṇi yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. I am changing my dress. Supposing I have got very nice, good dress, American body, very fair complexion, comfortable life, all these things. That's all right. But do you think what is your next dress? Are you going, are you sure that you are going to be American again? Who can say? Is there any scientist? Is there any astrologer who can say, "Yes"? No. Nobody can say.

*But the śāstra can say. Śāstra means the authoritative scriptures. Just the other day we described about the symptoms of this Kali*-yuga. So many things are foretold five thousand years before, and they are coming true in this age. For example, one small example: lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. In this age people will think that by keeping long hairs they have become beautiful. This is stated in the Bhāgavata. A very small example. So many other things. Five thousand years before, ago, this was foretold, that in this age people will like to keep long hairs in order to become beautiful. So this is śāstra. Śāstra means direction-both past, present, and future. Everything is there. Therefore we have to consult the Vedic literature. It is perfect. It is without any mistake, without any cheating. This is śāstra. Just like in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find the indication of Lord Buddha's birth. It is stated in the list of incarnation of God that buddha-nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati means future tense. In the beginning, just after the beginning of this age, kīkaṭeṣu, in the province of Gayā... If you have gone to India, you will see still there is a place known as Gayā in the province of Bihar. And Lord Buddha, I mean to say, flourished himself in that part of the country. And it is indicated there that kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati, in future. And his mother's name is also mentioned: añjana-sutaḥ. Lord Buddha's mother's name was Añjana. He was Hindu, kṣatriya, a prince. So everything is stated there. Similarly, the next incarnation at the end of this Kali-yuga is also mentioned in the Bhāgavata. That will take place 400,000's of years after from this time. But His father's name and the incarnation's name and the place where He will come, that is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*So this is called śāstra. Śāstra means you can consult. Just like you consult dictionary, you consult encyclopedia, you consult so many authoritative books for understanding knowledge, similarly, if you consult, you get all information. So in this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is all stated: "If you do like this, you get birth like this. If you do like this, you get birth like this." And in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā it is generally spoken, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Those who are in the modes of goodness... There are three qualities in this material world: the quality of goodness, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. Those who are cultivating the quality of goodness, they can be promoted to the higher status of life in higher planetary system. Ūrdhvam. Ūrdhvam means higher. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. Rājasāḥ means those who are in the modes of passion. They remain either in this planet or some of them may be elevated to the heavenly planet. Heavenly planet is also in the middle of the universe. And adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthāḥ. Jaghanya*-very abominable characters. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthāḥ. Those who are situated not only ignorance... Out of ignorance, one remains in abominable condition. So jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. They go downwards, even to the animal life. So we have to consult and we have to mold our life in that way.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means it is above the modes of goodness. The goodness characteristic is manifested in a true brāhmaṇa. What is that characteristic? He is truthful. First thing is satya. Satya means truthful. A brāhmaṇa is supposed to speak truth even to his enemy. Everyone hides his secret before the enemy, but truthful means that he does not hide anything even to his enemy. That is brahminical qualification. Satya śama, controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Dama, controlling the senses, satya-sama-dama-śaucam, always clean, taking bath three times daily. Antar-bahiḥ. Outwardly, to wash with soap and other materials to clean, keep oneself clean, and inwardly, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa*-that is cleanliness. So satya-sama-śaucam ārjavam, simplicity. Not to encourage artificial necessities of life. Simple life: plain living, high thinking-simplicity. And titikṣa, tolerance. Because this world is miserable. If we become disturbed with the miseries of this world, oh, you cannot live for a moment, because this life is, material life is full of miseries. So you have to become tolerant. When Kṛṣṇa was instructed about the eternity of the soul to Arjuna, Arjuna understood it. He said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, I quite understand that soul is eternal. Even my teacher and grandfather is killed, he is bodily killed, but he is eternal. I can understand. But do You think that if my brother or if my grandfather or if my teacher with whom I am so thickly connected, if they die, shall I be happy?" So Kṛṣṇa answered, "Yes. You'll not be happy. Although you know that your son is eternal, he is not dying, he is changing his body... By theoretical knowledge or by understanding, you know it. But who is there in this world who will not cry when the son is dead? He will cry. But that crying is not crying like a layman. He knows that 'My...,' this is habitual. This is habitual."

*That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. Just like we feel warm and we feel cold due to the skin. So that does not mean because we in the summer we feel warm, therefore we shall not go to the fire and cook our foodstuff. Everyone does his duty. That is tolerance. Even it is very warm in the kitchen and if it is summer season, perspiration, nobody, I mean to say, stay away from cooking. One has to do his duty. So Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna that tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. "My dear Arjuna, even there is some pain due to the miserable condition of this material world, so we have to tolerate that." Just like a patient, he is suffering in so many symptoms of the disease. Doctor is giving him medicine. He is also being treated nicely, but his suffering is there. And then? What the patient will think? He has to tolerate, tolerate, because he knows that "I am going to be cured very soon. The treatment is there. So let me suffer little.'

*Similarly, our aim should be how to get out of this miserable condition of this material existence. And we should prepare ourself for that purpose. And the best and easiest method is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance in ecstasy, you become in the process of purification. You chant, you dance nicely, enjoy. Just see how nice and easiest process has been endowed to us by Lord Caitanya. He's teaching Himself. And immediately you can take part. There is no prerequisite qualification. You haven't got to educate yourself. Just like if one studies Vedānta, he has to tax his brain so much, he has to learn Sanskrit, he has to learn the intricacies of logic and philosophy and so many things. Here, there is no need of anything. You come here as you are, whatever you may be, and join this chanting and dancing. Your purification method immediately begins. Immediately. And if you continue, then you become purified. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. As soon as you are purified... Purification means purification of your heart, that's all. All the dirty things are within our heart. The bodily dirty things, if you wash once, it is all gone. But it is very difficult to remove the dirty things within the heart. That requires purification. So this process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, begins from the purification of your heart.

*Now, the television man was asking how it is possible. It is possible. One may not understand. Just like a child, he does not know how he is produced. I know. I asked my mother in my childhood, "My dear mother, how did I come out from your belly?" I still remember. So my mother showed me her navel: "You come out from this place." So anyway, a child cannot understand, but when he grows up, he understands everything. So how Kṛṣṇa consciousness acts, how this transcendental sound cleanses your heart, you may not understand in the beginning, but if you take to it and if you practice it, then you understand. Then you can understand. And in the Vedānta*-sūtra it is said, śabdāt anāvṛttiḥ. As from the sound the whole material existence has come into being, similarly, from sound also, you can go back to the spiritual existence. So this sound vibration... The oṁkāra is also the same sound as..., om, but this is easier, Hare Kṛṣṇa. You cannot have so ecstasy by vibrating om, but because it was chanted by the greatest authority, Lord Caitanya, it has got special power. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. The scriptures indicate that we have to follow the footprints of great authorities. Tarko apratiṣṭham. You cannot come to the right conclusion simply by arguing. You may be a very good logician and you can argue very nicely, but another man, he may be a greater logician than you. He can nullify all your arguments. There is possibility. So tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ.

*Therefore simply by argument and logical conclusion, you cannot approach to the Absolute Truth or real truth. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. And if you consult yourself scriptures... Just like Bhagavad*-gītā, if you read yourself, you get one kind of impression, and if you hear explanation from an authorized person, you get another impression. The book is the same, but by hearing from the authorities, you get a better impression, better understanding. There are so many examples like this. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Now there are many scriptures in the world. The Hindus have got the Vedas; the Christians have got the Bible; the Muslims, they have got Koran. Now, if you read all these scriptures, you will find something contradictory. Just like animal killing. Animal killing, more or less, there are in every scripture, restricted or nonrestricted. There is none nonrestricted. Restricted. Even in the Koran, the animal killing is restricted. Animal is to be killed in the, in certain Bakri Eid ceremony and in the Masjid. Similarly, animal killing amongst the Hindus, they are to be done in the temple of Goddess Kālī. But no slaughterhouse is recommended. Anyway...

*So if you read different scripture, you will be bewildered. In one scripture it is said... But there is adjustment. If you go to the authorized person, he can adjust. But you cannot see. You see, you'll see contradiction. So śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Therefore they are considered different, but actually, they are not different. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And there are speculators, so*-called philosophers, putting theories and doctrines. So one doctrine is different from another doctrine. And people are convinced that no doctrine is absolute; *therefore they are going on searching doctrine after doctrine throughout the whole life, and they do not know... Just like the theosophists. They go on, simply searching. They have never come to the conclusion, "Here is the end." They cannot do that. But in Bhagavad*-gītā you will find, "Here is the end." Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, here is the ultimate goal. I am-Kṛṣṇa. There is no more anything higher than Me." Nānyad asti kiñcid dhanañjaya. Mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ sūtre maṇi-ganā iva: "Just like in a thread, the pearls are woven, similarly, everything is standing in Me."

*So if we read different scriptures, then we are also bewildered and we cannot come to the conclusions by arguments. And nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And if you read different speculative methods or philosophical doctrines, that is also different from one another. Because the philosophy, one philosopher is big philosopher if he can defy his predecessor philosophers. Matam na bhinnam. Therefore, dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. Therefore the truth of a religious path is in oblivion. How one can understand what is actual Absolute Truth, what is the religious path? The last instruction is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Therefore you have to follow the footprints of authority. You can take anyone as you authority, as authority, but according to Bhāgavata there are twelve authorities. That is also mentioned. They are authorized persons from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they have got disciplic succession. The twelve authorities are Brahmā, Nārada, Lord Śiva and Kumāra, Manu and Lord Kapila, Bhīṣma and Prahlāda, Janaka and Yamarāja and this Śukadeva Gosvāmī, who is speaking the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Vaiyāsaki. Vaiyāsaki means "the son of Vyāsadeva." And they have got their disciplic succession. And if we receive that knowledge from disciplic succession, then we can get perfect knowledge. That is the process of Vedic way.

Vedic way is to receive knowledge from the authority, not to manufacture knowledge by mental speculation. Manufacturing..., your manufacturing process is very poor because you are imperfect. At least your senses, by which you will produce knowledge... Sense, there are senses to acquire knowledge. Just like by hearing, I have acquired knowledge, and by speaking, I am distributing knowledge. So these are all sense activities. But our senses are imperfect; therefore we cannot manufacture knowledge. We have to receive knowledge from the authority. Just like we receive knowledge from our father, mother, "This is this." The child learns, "This is lamp." The father tells, "My dear boy, this is called lamp," and the boy understands, "This is lamp." The mother says, "My dear boy, this is your father," and the boy accepts, "This is my father." He doesn't make any research "Who is my father?" because mother is the authority.

Similarly, perfect knowledge is from the authority. Perfect knowledge is not by speculation. Speculation, how much speculation you can do? What is the worth of your speculation? Because you are imperfect. Your senses are imperfect. You have got cheating within your heart; you commit mistake; *you are illusioned. So how you can give perfect knowledge? This is our tendency. Nobody will say that "I am fool number one." Everyone will say that "I am very much learned," although he is fool number one. This is cheating. So this cheating propensity is there in everyone*-even in our ordinary dealing, in business dealing or any other dealing, even within husband and wife. The husband thinking, "Oh, I have bluffed my wife in this way," and the wife is thinking, "Oh, I have bluffed my husband in this way." So the cheating process is there in me, in you, everywhere, because we are imperfect. Therefore it is not possible to get perfect knowledge from an imperfect man. We receive, therefore, knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, who is neither imperfect nor a man. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process.

So Mahārāja Parīkṣit is asking from the authority how these persons who are suffering in the hellish condition of life can be reclaimed. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is replying,

na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ

*krtasya kuryān manokta*-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ

[SB 6.1.7]



*"My dear King, one cannot get rid of the reaction of one's sinful activities unless he undergoes the counter*-affecting means." In every scripture, there is a process of atonement. Just like in Christian religion, at the time of death, if somebody admits that "I have committed this kind of sin," it is supposed that he is forgiven. Similarly, in Muslim scripture there is also similar injunction, and in Hindu scripture there are many such injunctions. And as far as possible, they are followed by different followers. So the same thing is confirmed here: "My dear King, if somebody does not atone for his sinful activities..." Sinful activities function in three ways. Here it is stated. What is that? Mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ: by mind, by activities of the mind, and by activities of our words, and by activities of our senses. And if I hurt you by harsh word, then that is also a sin. And when actually commit violence or do something with my hands or legs or something, that is certainly sinful. So we can commit sins in three ways: mind and words and karma, by action. Thinking, feeling and willing and acting. Therefore a svāmī or gosvāmī means who has control over the function of the mind, of the words, and of the activities of the senses. There is definition. "One who can control the tongue, one who can control the mind, one who can control the words, one who can control the belly, one who can control the generative organ, he is svāmī." And pṛthiviṁ sa śiṣyāt: "He is allowed to create disciples all over the world."



*So unless one has control over these things, over the tongue... Over the tongue means tongue is not allowed to eat anything except Kṛṣṇa*-prasādam. Tongue is not allowed to vibrate anything except Hare Kṛṣṇa or topics in the Bhagavad-gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is controlling. Controlling the tongue does not mean that you lock up your tongue. Sometimes in India if you go... There are so many bogus things. One has cut the tongue and has locked it. But tongue cannot be locked. Tongue, any sense, you cannot stop its activities. Simply you have to divert it. Just like my eyes. My eyes want to see very beautiful thing, very beautiful girl, very beautiful dress. So you practice, you decorate the Deity in the temple very beautifully with dress, with ornaments, with flowers, and see. That means your propensity for seeing beautiful things will be satisfied; *at the same time, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Your tongue wants to eat very nice things. All right, you get it Kṛṣṇa*-prasādam. Kṛṣṇa is offered the nicest cooked foodstuff. So you satisfy your tongue; at the same time, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So, Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is so nice, that there is no forceful prohibition of the senses. Even the sense organ, generative organ, that can be used also for Kṛṣṇa. How? If you can beget children who will be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then produce hundred, one hundred children. Otherwise stop producing cats and dogs.

*So no sense is stopped, but you have to utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. You can walk to Kṛṣṇa's temple, you can dance to the tune of Kṛṣṇa's song, you can eat nice foodstuff, you can see very beautiful Deities, you can hear very beautiful sound, you can talk on Kṛṣṇa philosophically from Bhāgavata and Bhagavad*-gītā. So everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no stoppage. And devotional service means that purifying the senses and engage them in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to get himself freed from all material designations. We are impure because we are compact in designation: "Oh, I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am white," "I am black." So these are all designation. If you simply know that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I am servant of God," then you are purified. You are neither white nor black nor this nor that, but you are simple servant of Kṛṣṇa. If you continue this consciousness, then you are purified immediately. No more contamination. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. And as soon as you take it very seriously, that "I am Kṛṣṇa's"-neither to the society, neither to the community, neither to the country, neither to the international society, or neither anything, but "I am Kṛṣṇa's"-if this firm conviction is there, then you are completely pure: tat-paratvena nirmalam. And in the pure condition, when you engage your senses in the service of the Lord, that is called Kṛṣṇa conscious service or devotional service. (end)



750615SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.7

-

Honolulu, June 15, 1975,

Sunday Feast Lecture



Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (chants twice with devotees responding) (chants verse word for word with devotees responding:)



na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ

[SB 6.1.7]



*So last week we discussed Parīkṣit Mahārāja's sympathy with the suffering humanity. This is Vaiṣṇava. The Vaiṣṇava, or devotee, he is the perfect sympathizer for all suffering humanity. Others' sympathy is not perfect. They are planning so many things*-opening hospitals or charitable dispensaries, schools, lunatic asylum. These are all public sympathetic activities. But they are not... They are, of course, good to some extent. If a man is suffering from the bodily ailments, if he is given some relief in the hospital, or if the society is not educated, give him education, this is all good work undoubtedly. But the ultimate good work is not known to them. They are taking care of the external symptoms. Why a person, a living entity, is put into that condition? And if that condition is ended, that is real sympathy. A person is suffering from some disease. He goes to the doctor, physician. He gives some medicine-immediate some relief from the pain. This is one sympathy. And there is another sympathy, that "Why the man is getting such disease and suffering? Why not stop the cause of the disease?" That is real sympathy.



Now, we can see in our front, there is a tree standing for many years, and he has to stand in scorching heat, torrents of rain, pinching cold. He cannot move an inch. And if we think seriously, "Suppose if I would have been put into that condition, that 'Stand up here for five hundred or five thousand years. You cannot move an inch, and you bear all the sufferings, scorching heat, storm,' " would I agree to do that? No. I will not agree. But the tree is also a living entity. He is a living being. I am also living being. So I am put in a different condition of life and the tree is put in a different condition of life. Why? Why this distinction? Is there any upper hand superior judgment that one is put in the condition of standing tree and one is put in the beautiful human body, freely moving? There must be, because we are all living entities. We are all soul, spirit soul. We are simply put in different dresses.

*Therefore, in the beginning of the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā, this lesson is the first lesson. We have to understand.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Ninety*-nine point nine percent, they do not understand this philosophy, especially in the modern age. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. They are very, very dull rascals. This is the challenge. Mandāḥ. Mandāḥ means dull, no intelligence. A simple truth, Kṛṣṇa is explaining to Arjuna. It is authoritative statement because Kṛṣṇa says, and Kṛṣṇa says not unreasonably, very reasonably, "I am giving very common example that smin dehe, within this body, the proprietor of the body or the spirit soul is there. And on account of this," dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13], "because the living entity is within this body, therefore the bodily changes are taking place." What is that changing? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. "The body is sometimes child, and sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man. So the body is changing." Who cannot understand this? The child, the small child, is dancing. Now, that child will get the body of a young man like you. Everyone knows it. This body will change. Where is the difficulty? And Kṛṣṇa is giving this common example, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. As you are experiencing this change of body, similarly, you take it that this body also will change. An old man like me, the next body is there. Either farther old man or, after death, another body. This is to be understood. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ means to get another body.



*So we are experiencing in our this life. It is taking change so swiftly that we cannot understand how the body is changing, but it is changing. So similarly, this body will change. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ. And we have to change that body after death according to my mental condition because we have got two bodies, the subtle body and the gross body. This gross body is finished; *it is no more working. Just like at night the gross body does not work. We are thinking, "I am sleeping." Sleeping means the body is so much tired, it is no more working. But your another body, which is made of mind, intelligence, and ego-subtle body*-that is working. Everyone has got this experience. The subtle body takes you to another place or another condition. You are dreaming that you have gone to the jungle. You are meeting some animals. The tiger is there coming to attack you, and you are crying, "Here is tiger! Tiger! Tiger!" And the man who is not dreaming, he says, "Where is tiger? Why you are crying?" But he's actually... The result is there. Don't think that the result is not there. In dream you are thinking your lover is there, you are embracing, and you get discharge, not that that you are not working and it is not, there is no result. There is result. I cannot see what is the result, what you are dreaming. I am fool. I do not know. But the man who is dreaming, he is experiencing. Similarly, change of body means we are carried by the subtle body to another gross body. This is the process, nature's way. You cannot say that "I will not change body." No, you will be forced. Just like a young man can say, "I will not become old man." No, nature will force you to become an old man, or change your body. This is the law of nature. You cannot surpass the laws of nature. Similarly, change of body, that is forced by the nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛteḥ, by the nature's law, we have to do. We are completely under nature's law. And we are declaring independence. This is our foolishness. This is our foolishness.

So in the Fifth Chapter, at the end of the Fifth Chapter, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has described the different sufferings, body in the hellish condition. We are, according to change of body, we are not only going through the evolutionary process of different types of body, as we have got experience here: the aquatics, the trees, the plants, the insect, the birds, the beast, then a human being. Similarly, after human being, if we do not work properly with our advanced consciousness, then we go down again in the hellish planet that are down this universe. And if we act piously, then you go to the upper planetary system. This moon planet is also one of the upper planetary system. But you cannot go by sputnik. That is not possible. It is all foolishness. The moon planet is situated above the sun planet. They are not going to the moon planet; *therefore they have stopped their propaganda. So above that moon planet, there is Venus, there is Jupiter, there is Mars, and so many others. So in the śāstra it is said, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. If you act very piously, in the mode of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system. And if you do not work in the modes of goodness*-in the modes of passion-then you remain in this planet and become changed into so many bodies. And if you still work... Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. If you are so abominable that you do not work as a human being and just like animal, then you go to the hellish condition. This is nature's law.

*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has described all the planetary system, where and how they are situated, how many miles they are different from one another. The calculation of the whole universe is made there. The diameter is described: four billion miles up and down, this way and that. And where is the sun is situated and how far above the sun the moon is situated, how far above the moon the Mars, Jupiter*-everything is clearly described. And where the hellish planets are situated, and how in the hellish planets different sinful men are suffering. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, after hearing... That is Vaiṣṇava. He did not take care of the other things. He immediately took care of the suffering planets, because that is the Vaiṣṇava's nature. Vaiṣṇava has no problem. He is servant of God, representative of God. But he is feeling the sufferings of the humanity. That is Vaiṣṇava. He feels, "Oh, these people are suffering. Let us give some information from the śāstra so that they can be relieved from the suffering condition."

*So in this Kali*-yuga, (it is) especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy that you are chanting and dancing before Caitanya Mahāprabhu... So He is so merciful that if you continue this process, you are guaranteed that you will never go to the hellish planet. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. Very simple thing. If you simply chant and dance before Caitanya Mahāprabhu Kalau saṅkīrtanaiḥ yajñaiḥ yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. This is the description of the śāstra:

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇam tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadaṁ

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*This is the method of worship in this Kali*-yuga, in this age. What is that? That kṛṣṇa-varṇam tviṣākṛṣṇam: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, descends as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whose complexion is very beautiful." Tviṣā. Tviṣā means by the complexion; *akṛṣṇa, not blackish. As Kṛṣṇa is blackish, this incarnation is not blackish. It is just like golden, molten gold. So tviṣākṛṣṇam. And kṛṣṇa*-varṇam, "He is Kṛṣṇa," or "always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa-varṇam tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ saṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. And His associates, just like Nityānanda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu and Gadādhara and Śrīvāsa and many others... So He is always in association of His assistants, who are assisting Him in propagating the saṅkīrtana movement. Gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha bhoi māne. Anyone who is preaching the saṅkīrtana movement is associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Saṅgopāṅgāstra... Just like Advaita Prabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu helped, similarly, anyone, even up to date, who is trying to help the propagation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, preach this saṅkīrtana movement all over the world, he is also associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe nitya siddha boli māne. They are not ordinary human being. Nitya siddha, ever liberated.



*So if we follow this leadership and if we act very nicely, very easily... Sukham. There is one verse in Sanskrit, Bhagavad*-gītā, rāja-guhyaṁ pavitram idam uttamam, kartum avyayam. To perform this activity, it doesn't require much energy, much austerity. Simply you join the saṅkīrtana movement, and ecstasy you dance, take prasādam. By this process you are guaranteed; *you will never go to the hellish planet. So this saṅkīrtana movement is so nice. Anyway, don't disbelieve. It is in the śāstra. So there are hellish planet, hellish birth, 8,400,000 species of birth. So we have to take information from the śāstra. Don't be foolish. You create your mental concoction. No, that will not help you, because you are not free. Nobody is free. Everyone is under the grip of material laws. Even if I think, "I am free," that is my foolishness. I will be forced to act. Even if I do not want to become old man, I will be forced to become old man. And if I, after this giving up this body, if I... Suppose nature is offering me a dog's body. If I say "No, no, I will not accept this," no, you will be forced to accept it. That is nature's law. But you can save yourself if you follow conscientiously. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and act accordingly, then you will be saved. Otherwise there is no saving. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You will have to accept another body. And what is that body? That is not stated. That will be decided at the end of your life, at the time of your death, at the condition of your mind and intelligence at that time. If, at that time, you are thinking of your pet dog, "What will happen to my pet dog? How he will live? Let me leave some of my property in his name," (laughter) then you can leave the dog with some property, but you are going to be dog. This is laws of nature. You may love your dog very nicely and leave some property, but where you are going, sir? That is under the nature's law. You cannot say that "I given so much property to the dog. Why shall I accept the...?" No. Because your mind is absorbed in the thought of dog, therefore you must take the dog's body. This is nature's law. Therefore we have to train up our mind. Instead of dog, you must train up your mind to think of God. Then you will be saved. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām [Bg. 4.9].

Anyway, so Parīkṣit Mahārāja asked that "How these people can be delivered from this hellish condition of life?" That was his question to Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He asked,

*adhuneha mahā*-bhāga

yathaiva narakān naraḥ

*nānogra*-yātanān neyāt

tan me vyākhyātum arhasi



"I have heard you, my dear sir." Śukadeva Gosvāmī is the guru of Parīkṣit Mahārāja. So he became very much anxious, "Oh, so many people are suffering in the hellish condition?" So he immediately asked his spiritual master, "Kindly let me know how these living entities who are suffering in this way can be saved, can be delivered from the severe pain of hellish condition of life." This was his question. So the answer is given that,



na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ



"My dear Parīkṣit, if, before the end of the life..." We are committing so many sinful activities. We are committing so many sinful activities. Just like in the Western countries they are killing so many birds and beasts, especially cows, thousands and thousands. They are all becoming implicated. You have no right. Even Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." (aside, to someone fiddling with tape recorder:) What is that business? Stop it. Who is making this "kut, kut"?



Devotee: This tape recorder.



*Prabhupāda: No, why this is...? Stop it. So we are responsible. Even if we kill one mosquito, we are responsible. It is not man*-made law, that "If you kill a human being, then you are punished, and if you kill another animal, you are not punished." This is man-made law, according to our convenience. "We have to eat the animal; *therefore there is no punishment for animal killing." But God is for everyone the same. Every living entity is part and parcel of God. So they have been given an opportunity to undergo the punishment or enjoyment. You cannot disturb him. You cannot disturb him. Just like you are living in an apartment according to your position, but if I forcibly I ask you, "Go out of this apartment," then I will be punishable by the law. I have no right to get you out from that apartment. Similarly, every living entity by the laws of nature, all laws of nature, is imprisoned or allowed under certain apartment, either in the body of a tree or a human being or demigod or cat or dog. These are all ordained. So you cannot get out the living entity, soul, by force from that body. Then you will be punishable. The living entity is never killed, but you have no right to get him out from that body. That is sinful. If you argue that "What is the harm if I kill one animal, because it is said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] 'The living entity, soul, is never killed even after the annihilation of this body'?" that is all right. But you cannot force him. Just like if you get one person, by force, get out from his apartment*-he is not dying, of course, but still, it is criminal because you are forcing to go out of the apartment. So that is the law of nature. You cannot force anyone to get out of the body. Then you are punishable.



*So the punishments are different. So therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is informing, na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ. You have done something, sinful activity, and if you do not atone for it before your next death, kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ, the sinful activities which you have done with your body, with your mind, with your senses, that you have to atone for it. "Otherwise," dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti, dhruvam, "surely he will get the different types of hellish condition of life," ye kīrtitā me, "as I have already described," bhavatas tigma-yātanāḥ, "before you how they are suffering." This is karma-kāṇḍa vicāra, means for one sinful activities, another pious activity, counteraction. But this will be discussed in the next verse, that prāyaścittam. Prāyaścitta means atonement. That is the next verse here:

*tasmāt puraivāśv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau

yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā

*doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā

bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit

[SB 6.1.8]



*So according to degree of sinful activities... So degree, the most sinful activity, according to Vedic information*-to kill a child, to kill a woman, to kill a brāhmaṇa, and to kill a cow. This is very abominable punishment. Child, brāhmaṇa, cow, and woman, they are to be given protection by the laws of Vedic instruction. They have to be protected. So this should be very carefully done. Strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnām [SB 1.4.25]. Strī, they are considered either as innocent as the child or as innocent as the animal. So they should be given always protection. So here it is said that tasmāt puraiva āśu iha pāpa-niṣkṛtau. Very busy. We do not know when is, when we shall die. But we must know, we have committed so many sinful activities; *therefore before the next death, yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā. Mṛtyu: we have to die. Before death, we have to make the atonement. "Otherwise," Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "as I have already described the different position of hellish condition of life, one has to suffer." And how it will be done? Doṣasya dṛṣṭvā lāghu..., guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā. There are degrees. The first degree sinful activity I have already said. There are different degrees. So as the physician The example is given that bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit. Bhiṣak means physician. You have got some pain, disease, ailments. He gives you Suppose you are suffering, so he sees that this suffering is not very serious. "All right, you take this tablet." What is called? Anacin? "And you will be relived." But if he has got a big boil, and it has got pus and bad [break]



*...decided in India still there is the system. Now everything is gone practically. But still the Vedic system is there that if one has committed... They are always conscious, the mass of people, not the so*-called educated men, that "In the śāstra it is said that this is sinful." So if he commits some sinful activity, he goes to a very expert brāhmaṇa. They are called bhaṭṭācārya. They are especial... Just like there are physicians for treatment of the disease, there are highly learned brāhmaṇas who are called bhaṭṭācāryas. People go there: "Sir, I have committed this sin. What I have to do?" So they prescribe that "You do like this." So similarly, as we go to the physician, we have to go to consult an expert learned brāhmaṇa, that "I have committed..." But people used to understand that what is sinful and what is pious. Now people are so downtrodden, so dull, mandāḥ, that they do not understand what is sinful, what is pious. They are going on, doing all nonsense without any care. And there is no question of consulting physician or learned brāhmaṇa.

*So these things are all gone. In Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time there was misuse also of this... Just like sometimes the physician does not give him the proper medicine. Just to keep him under treatment and take money from him, he continues. Similarly, in this age things are being deteriorated. So even you go to a learned brāhmaṇa, he does not give you the proper instruction. He wants to exact some money from you. Therefore things have gone, everything, very bad. Even in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was there, one gentleman, he was made into a Muhammadan. This is a long story. The shortcut is he was very rich man, and the Nawab of Bengal, Hussain Shah, when he was a boy, he was his servant. Later on he became the Nawab, the king. So one day the Nawab was being massaged, and his wife saw that there is a stripe on the back. So (s)he asked the Nawab, "What is this?" So he stated that "When I was a poor boy, I was servant of Buddhimanta Khan, and I committed some wrong, so he whipped me with a cane." "Oh? Then it is a sign that you were a servant of Buddhimanta Khan sometimes before. If people will see and you will explain, that is an insult for you." "Oh, what is that? He was just like my father. He chastised me. I don't mind." "No, no, no, no. You should kill him so that he may not say to anyone that you were sometime his servant." So Nawab disagreed. Nawab said, "No, no. He treated me just like my son, and I accepted him as my father. It is not possible to kill him." Then the queen suggested that "At least you make him a Muhammadan. Then that will be the punishment." So the king, or the Nawab, said, "All right, I shall make him." Because in those days, to make a Hindu a Muhammadan, it was very easy. The Muhammadans they have got a pot, it is called badna. So if the Mohammedan takes little water from the badna and sprinkles upon a Hindu, then Hindu community will immediately reject him, "Oh, he has become Muhammadan." This was the Hindu community. Therefore so many Muhammadans were there in India, and ultimately, by the British policy, they divided. They were not actually Muhammadans coming from Turkey or from West. They were lower*-class Hindus. But the Hindus were so foolish that if a Muhammadan sprinkled some water in this way, so he becomes Muhammadan and he is rejected, in this way the Muhammadan population was there.

Anyway, that was done in the case of Buddhimanta Khan. The Nawab called him one day and took little water from his pot and sprinkled, and it was the law, "He has become Muhammadan, he has become Muhammadan." So he went to a bhaṭṭācārya, "So what is the atonement? Now I have become Muhammadan." Just see the conception. And the bhaṭṭācārya said that "You drink one pound of molten lead." "How it is possible?" "That is the atonement." So in this way he was baffled. He went to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was very respectable man. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu laughed, that "This the condition of the Hindu society." So He said that "I tell you that you give up your family life. You go to Vṛndāvana and chant there Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That will be the..."

*So at the present moment that is the only atonement. Whatever we have done and whatever we are doing, the atonement is chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we haven't got to go to Vṛndāvana. We have got Vṛndāvana, Nabadwīp, here in Hawaii, in this temple. So you take this process of atonement, but don't commit sinful life any more. Don't think that "Now I am chanting and I can go on committing all sinful activities." That is aparādha. That is offense. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. If we think like that, that "We have got an instrument, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, which nullifies or neutralizes all kinds of sinful activities. It is very good instrument. Then I go on committing all kinds of sinful activities, and sometimes I go in the temple and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance," no, don't take this policy. You must stop your sinful activities. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra has got the power to neutralize the resultant action of your all sinful activities. That's a fact. But don't accumulate again the sinful activities. Then you are safe. If you take it as an instrument: "Now let me commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," then that is very dangerous. You will never be excused. Just like sometimes the Christians do. They go to the church, make some atonement, and again does the same thing next week, and again goes to the church, again atonement. This is not good. If you make atonement for your sinful activities by some process-just like we are prescribing this process, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-surely your sinful reaction is nullified. But don't commit it again. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He delivered Jagāi-Mādhāi. They were very sinful. Sinful means they were born in a respectable brāhmaṇa family, but by bad association they became drunkard, woman-hunter, cheater, and plunderer, like that. That is sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them. Then how delivered them? Caitanya Mahāprabhu made them promise that "You will not do any more all these things." They said, "Yes, we promise. We shall not do." "Then you are delivered." Similarly, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, all the sinful activities are excused, but you don't commit it again. Therefore we are prescribing... Along with chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we are asking our disciples, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling." If you save yourself from these four pillars of sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra*-not very much, only sixteen rounds minimum-then you are saved from the hellish condition of life for which Parīkṣit Mahārāja was so disturbed and he was asking, "How to save these people from this hellish condition of life?"

*So this will be described more and more. The book is there, Bhāgavata. You can read. We are... We have published so many Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam edition, nicely explained in English. So they are being accepted even educated circle, school, college, and big, big professors. So you also try to read this Bhāgavatam, and don't commit sinful activities, the four things, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is saved from hellish condition of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760508SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.7

-

Honolulu, May 8, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter One, verse number seven. (devotees repeat:)



śrī śuka uvāca

na cet ihaiva apacitiṁ yathā aṁhasaḥ

*kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ

dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti

*ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma*-yātanāḥ

[SB 6.1.7]



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "My dear King, if before one's next death whatever impious acts one has performed in this life with the mind, words and body are not counteracted through the proper atonement according to the description of the Manu*-saṁhitā and other dharma-śāstras, one will certainly enter the hellish planets after death and undergo terrible suffering, as I have previously described to you."



So atonement is prescribed in every scripture. Even in Christian Bible there is atonement. So in other scriptures also there is atonement. Just like a man who has committed murder, he must die. "Life for life." This is atonement. When the government punishes a murderer with capital punishment, death, that is a mercy upon him. That punishment is accepted practically all over the world from time immemorial. So there must be atonement. So if a person who has committed murder, killed somebody else, then if he is punished by death, then the sinful activities which he has committed, that is counteracted. Otherwise he will have to suffer next life very severely, four times. So people do not believe even in the next life, and what to speak of atonement and punishment. They are kept in darkness. Otherwise they would have been... If they would have followed actually the injunction of the śāstras... First of all one should not be killing anyone. In the Bible also it is said, "Thou shall not kill." Why it is forbidden? Because if he kills, he'll have to suffer. But they do not care for it. Therefore they suffer.

*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "Whatever punishment I have described in the Fifth Canto on account of different sinful activities, one has to suffer that unless he commits..., unless he performs atonement." This is the... Na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ kṛtasya kuryān mana*-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. We can commit sinful activities in different ways. Mana, even by mind, we can commit sinful activities. If I contemplate something sinful by my mind, then we become affected. Therefore we must keep always sinless. Kaya-mana-vākya. This sannyāsa tridaṇḍa... There are three rods within the stick or the cover, three daṇḍas. Not three, four. Three is kaya-body, mind, kaya, mana, and words, and one he is personally. Therefore there are four sticks within the daṇḍa. Those who have taken sannyāsa, they know it. The idea is that "I surrender to my spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa." Spiritual master is identical with Kṛṣṇa because he gives true knowledge. Therefore he is as good as God. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata **. A spiritual master is considered directly as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sākṣād. Sākṣād means directly. Why? Because he is jñāna-prada. He gives knowledge, real knowledge. That is the qualification of spiritual master. Nobody can become spiritual master if he has no knowledge. If he's a speculator, he cannot become a spiritual master. He must give the right knowledge. Then he is bona fide spiritual master. Otherwise he's a bogus. Jñāna-prada. And without real knowledge, our life is useless.

*Just like this morning we were talking so many things. They have no standard knowledge, no real knowledge. They do not know anything. Still, they present themselves, pretend themselves as philosopher, as scientist, as guru, as father, no. Everyone, those who are guardian... Therefore śāstra has forbidden, gurur na sa syāt sva*-jano na sa syāt pitā na sa syāj jananī na sa syāt: "One should not become a guru, one should not become a relative, one should not become the father, one should not become the mother, one should not become the husband..." In this way there is a list. Why? Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "If he does not know how to guide his disciple or subordinate to stop the cycle of birth and death." He should not do. This is the ultimate goal of life, that we have to stop the cycle. Punar-janma-jayayā. Punar-janma-jayayā, to conquer over next birth. Punar-janma-jayaya.

*When Viśvamitra Muni went to see Mahārāja Daśaratha to ask the help of Lord Rāmacandra and Lakṣmaṇa... There was a demon. They were disturbing in the forest. The saintly persons were disturbed. They could kill that demon, but because they were brāhmaṇas, saintly person, they did not like the killing business in their own hand. That was the system. A brāhmaṇa will not kill. A brāhmaṇa, simply by cursing, he can kill. Doesn't require even open... Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was cursed by a boy brāhmaṇa that within seven days he'll be bitten by a snake and he'll die. The brāhmaṇas were so powerful. So brāhmaṇa is not joke. In Kali*-yuga there is no such brāhmaṇa. So this Viśvamitra Muni came to Mahārāja Daśaratha to request that "Send your sons Rāmacandra and Laksmana to kill these demons." Kṣatriyas' business is... Kṣat. Kṣat means injury. If somebody is injuring your body, it is the duty of the government to save you: "Why unnecessarily you are injuring this...?" Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was going... And some person was śūdra in the dress of the king. He was trying to kill a cow. Immediately Parīkṣit Mahārāja took his sword: "Who are you, rascal, you are trying to kill a cow in my kingdom?" That is kṣatriya.

*[break] The tree has taken birth. The man has taken birth. Why simply man should be saved, not the cows, not the trees? [break] He must be saved. This is the government's duty. Unnecessarily there cannot be any killing. Lord Christ also, "Thou shall not kill." Yes, this is the beginning of religious life. If you are accustomed to kill somebody, either man, animal, trees, fish, anything, there is no entrance in religious life. There is no entrance because everyone, every living entity, is son of God. Sarva*-yoniṣu. You have read Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-yoniṣu: in all sorts of body. Sarva-yoniṣu sambhavanti mūrtayo yaḥ. There are different forms of life, 8,400,000. They are all living entities, but according to karma, they have got different bodies. This is the difference. Just like we have got different dresses according to my choice, similarly, we get different bodies according to my choice. This morning we were talking about the sufferers, what is called? The sea suffers?

Devotees: Surfers.



*Prabhupāda: Surfer, yes. (devotees laugh) Surfer. I call "sufferer." "Sea*-sufferer." (laughter) Sea-surfer, it is practical because we are creating a situation by which we shall become a fish. Yes. Contamination. Just like if you purposely contaminate some disease you must suffer from that disease. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22], in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why there are different varieties of life? What is the reason? That reason means kāraṇam. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma-yoniṣu. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni prakṛti-stho 'pi puruṣaḥ bhuñjante tad-guṇān. So the reason is as we are infecting. The nature's law is so perfect that you infect something, some disease, some contamination, then you must suffer. This is nature's law, automatically going on. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya.



*So there are three modes of material nature-goodness, passion, and ignorance. So long we are in this material world, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'pi bhuñjante tad-guṇān. If we remain in certain place, we must be affected by the modes of that place. So there are three modes, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa. We have to associate either with the modes of goodness or with the modes of passion or with the modes of ignorance. Now, three into three, it becomes nine, and nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. So mixture. Just like color. There are three colors: blue, red and yellow. Now, those who are expert in manufacturing color, artists, they mix these three colors in different way and they display. Similarly, according to the guṇas or mixture, association-kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya-we get different types of bodies. Therefore we see so many varieties of bodies. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. So the person who is taking very much pleasure, dancing in the sea like fish, so he is contaminating that modes of nature so that in next life he will become a fish. He'll be very free to dance with the ocean. (laughter) Now it will take again millions of years to come to the stage of human being. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. He has to pass through the fish life. There are 900,000 different species of life. Then you again come to the land*-you become trees, plants, and so on. Two millions different forms you have to go through. That is evolution. Darwin's theory of evolution, that is not perfectly explained. It is explained in the Vedic literature. So just a tree is standing for ten thousands of years, we had to pass through this life. But there is no perfect knowledge. We are thinking we are now very nice American body or Indian body. No. It took so many years to come to this life. Therefore śāstra says, labdhvā sudurlābhaṁ idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: [SB 11.9.29] "You have got this human form of life after many, many millions of years' waiting." So do not misuse it. That is Vedic civilization, not to misuse the human form of life. Nature's law is very, very strict. This life, it is given, a chance. Nature gives a chance. Now you get this human form of life, advanced consciousness. Now you make further improvement. That is wanted. From here we can make further improvement.

*What is that further improvement? We can go to the better planets. There are many better planets. You can go there, heavenly planets. There you can live for ten thousands of years. Ten thousands of years, and that is also not our year. The higher planetary system, their one day*-our six months. In that way you can live there for ten thousands of years. And the standard of living condition is thousand times better. Therefore it is called heavenly. So if you like, you can go there. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthaḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Yānti deva-vrataḥ devān. Everything is explained. Or if you can go, if you like you can go to the Pitṛloka. If you want to remain here as human being, you can also remain here, but you have to work for it to keep your position, status. Just like if you become rich man, high standard of life, you have to maintain it. Not that it will continue automatically. No, that is not possible, sir. This material world is not like that: you get one position and it will continue. No. A little discrepancy, immediately deteriorate your position. So you have to maintain it.

So if you want to maintain yourself within this Bhurloka... There are above this Bhūrloka, Bhuvarloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka, Maharloka. There are so many planetary system. And down also, Tala, Atala, Vitala, Pātāla, Talātala, like that. If you want to go down, you can go down. If you want to go up, you can go. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva... Everything is there; *you can do that. Ordinary, anyone can understand that in the human society if you want to become high*-court judge, you can become. And if you want to become a criminal in the prisonhouse, you can become. Everything is open. Not that government says that you become a criminal and he prefers somebody, "You become a high-court..." No. Everything is in your hand. If you like, you can become so. Similarly, if you like, you can go back to home, back to Godhead. That is perfection of life. And if you don't like, then remain here.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Kṛṣṇa has come to you to give you nice instruction how you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Back to home, back to Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam [Bg. 4.8]. He comes Himself, Kṛṣṇa, and He comes as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa, but because people misunderstood that Kṛṣṇa is asking sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja... [Bg. 18.66]. These rascals thought that "It is too much. Why I shall surrender to Kṛṣṇa? I am also as good as Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I surrender?" That is our mentality. If somebody says, good man, that "You surrender. I shall give you good instruction," "Oh, why shall I surrender to you?" That is material life. But our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement begins when you are ready to surrender. That is beginning. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. Praṇipāt means surrender. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. "Yes, I surrender to you." That is the beginning. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. To learn the surrender, it will take many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. But those who are intelligent, they will surrender immediately. "Kṛṣṇa says, 'Surrender,' and why not? Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. Let me surrender." Then his life is successful immediately. Within a second his life is successful. But we are not prepared to surrender. That is our material disease. So if we do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa and take His instruction and make our life, that is our choice. But if you like, you can make your life successful within a moment simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)





710722SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.8

-

New York, July 22, 1971



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa)



*tasmāt puraivāśv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau

yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā

*doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā

bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit

[SB 6.1.8]



Just like you go to a physician, and according to the gravity of the disease, the physician prescribes a medicine which may be very costly or may not be costly. That depends on the gravity of the disease. If the disease is very dangerous, then sometimes you have to accept some medicine which is very costly. Similarly, our contamination with sinful activities will require proportionate atonement. That is the prescription of the scriptures. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that "Before your death, if you accept some atonement, then next life you'll not suffer. Otherwise you'll carry with you the resultant action of your sinful activities and you'll have to suffer next life." Just like in the state laws, if you kill some man, murder, then the state law says that you shall be also hanged. "Life for life."



*So this is is not very new. The, in the Manu*-saṁhitā... Manu-saṁhitā means Lord Manu, he's the giver of law to the mankind. From Manu, the word man has come. The exact Sanskrit word "manuṣya." Manuṣya means man. So there is some link with Manu, M-a-n-u, and "man." So this Latin word comes from the Sanskrit word, manu. So Manu is supposed to be the law-giver to the humankind. So in the Manu-saṁhitā it is stated there that when the king kills one man, or hangs one man who is a murderer, that is benefit to him. Otherwise, if he's not killed, then he will carry the reaction of his murdering action, and he'll have to suffer in so many ways. The laws of nature are very subtle. They are very diligently administered. People do not know it. So on the whole, the Manu-saṁhitā, life for life is sanctioned. And that is practically observed all over the world. But similarly, there are other laws, that you cannot kill even an ant. Then you are responsible. You have no right to kill. And in the Bible also, we see, Lord Jesus Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." So killing is not allowed in any religious principle. Anyone who is killing, he's not considered in the human society. You cannot kill. The... Lord Buddha's also principle is ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, no killing. Lord Jesus Christ also says, "Thou shalt not kill." In our Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā [Bg. 13.8]. Ahiṁsā means not to become violent, not to kill.

So as there is state laws that you shall be killed if you kill your fellow man, similarly in the God's law there are the same thing. Not only man; *if you kill anyone, then you'll have to suffer, because everyone is God's creature. They are in different dress only. He's considered the supreme father. So father may have many children*-one is not very intelligent, another is very intelligent. And if the intelligent son says to the father that "This, my brother, is not intelligent. Let me kill him," will the father allow? Because his one son is not very intelligent, and if the intelligent son desires to kill him to avoid the burden, will the father agree to this? No. Similarly, if God is the supreme father, how He can sanction that you live and you kill animal? The animals are also His sons.

*So there is no justice. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, God claims,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

*tāsāṁ brahma mahad*-yonir

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*"Arjuna, all living entities in different species of life..." There are 8,400,000 species of life. They're all sons of God. Ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā. The Lord says, "I am the seed-giving father." Just like in ordinary birth, the father gives the seed, and the mother develops the body. Mother, by her blood, she supplies the ingredients of developing the child in the embryo. That is law's nature. Similarly, we living entities, we are part and parcel of the supreme father. We are very minute. The dimension is also given there in the śāstras: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Keśāgra, the tip of the hair. Agra means tip; *keśa means hair. Just imagine*-very small point. And you have to divide it into ten thousand parts. And that one part is the dimension of the living entity, spirit soul, spark. Everything is there in the śāstra. But because we have no eyes to see... Our material eyes cannot see what is the dimension of the soul. But the soul is there within this body. And as soon as the soul departs or takes another body, according to the work the soul is doing here, there is superior superintendence. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. We are working here... Just like in a office, somebody is working, and the service record is kept, "How this man is working." He does not know what is the opinion of the superior boss. But a service record is there in the office.



Young man: (yelling) Prabhupāda! Prabhupāda! Look what your Godbrothers are doing. Prabhupāda! Please help me, Prabhupāda!



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotees: There's a crazy boy out there. Crazy man. Crazy man...



Young man: Prabhupāda! Prabhupāda! Prabhupāda! Devotees. Hypocrites. They're hypocrites. (devotees chant japa loudly)



Prabhupāda: So office record is kept there...



Young man: You're full of nescience!



*Prabhupāda: ...and, according to the activities of that particular person, he's awarded promotion, increment of pay, or sometimes degraded and fired off. Two things are there. Similarly, for all our activities, which we are doing, there are witnesses. The sun is witness, the moon is witness, the day is witness, the air is witness and, above all witnesses, God Himself as the Supersoul, He's sitting in everyone's heart. He's also witness. So we cannot hide any activity from the eyes of God. So according to our work... Therefore in the śāstra it is said, daiva*-netreṇa. Daiva means God, and netra, netreṇa means under supervision. So karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Jantu. Jantu means living entities. Deha means this body; *upapattaye, "for manufacturing." Now we have got this human body. Next life it may not be human body*-something else, better or lower. That will be decided by the superior examination. Daiva-netreṇa.



So this is going on, but people do not know what is this science, how the spirit soul is transmigrating from one body to another, not only in one duration of life. In one duration of life, there are so many changes of body. The body first manufactured within the womb of the mother is very small, just like chick pea, small. And it develops. And there are holes. The holes develop into nine holes: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, one mouth, one genital, one rectum. In this way the body develops. And so long it requires to develop within the embryo, within the mother's womb, it remains there. And when it is sufficiently developed to grow outside, it comes out. Then it grows, the body grows. Grows means changing the body. Growing, we..., we are imperceptibly, cannot understand, but it is actually changing the body. Just like in your childhood you had a small body. That is no longer existing. That means you have changed your body. Similarly, you'll have to change this body. When this body will not work anymore... Because it is material. Every material things deteriorate and it becomes useless at certain length of time. Any machine, any clock... Therefore it has been taken as dress: vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22].

*So this is going on, but unfortunately modern universities, educational systems, they do not know anything about this. And still, they are very much proud of advancement of education. Actually, there is no education. Without this knowledge, spiritual knowledge, this education for earning bread, eating, sleeping, mating... That can be done without education. The animals, they are not educated*-they are not technologists, or they have no education in the universities, degrees-they're also eating, sleeping, mating and defending. So if our education is meant for simply eating sleeping, mating and defending, then what is the difference? That is not education. Real education is to understand what you are. That is real education. Ātma-jñāna. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long a man does not develop consciousness to understand his self, ātma-tattvam, the truth of the self, then whatever he's doing in ignorance, it is all defeat for his life. This human life is meant for victorious, to become victorious over the laws of material nature. Actually we are trying for that purpose. The whole struggle is how to counteract the onslaught of material nature. The whole activities are going on. But what is the ultimate victory? The ultimate victory is how to conquer over birth, death, disease and old age. That is the outcome, victory.

*But we have set aside, neglected this important point, and our education system is for how to eat, how to sleep, how to defend. What is... God is giving us to eat so many things. What your education system will improve? We are eating fruits, grains, or whatever we eat. That is given by God. Food is supplied to the animals. The four*-legged animals... Ahastāni sahastānām. Sahastānām ahastāni. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, everything is... The food is there. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: "One living entity is the food for another living entity." Ahastāni sahastānām. Just like animals, they have got no hands. So they are food for the animals which has..., who has got hands. We are animals with hands, and there are animals without hands. So ahastāni sahastānām. Sahasta means hand, with-hands animals, they're eating others which has no hand. Apadāni catuṣ-padām. "And those who have no legs, they are food for the animals, four-legged." Just like grass. This is also living entity, but it has no leg to move. It has leg, but it is fixed up. It cannot move. They're condemned, that "You cannot move." A tree is standing for seven thousand years. It cannot move. So they are food for moving animals. Just like cow eats grass. The goat eats grass. So apadāni catuṣ-padām. Phalgūni mahatāṁ tatra. In this way the world is being exploited. The weaker section is being exploited by the stronger section. Phalgūni mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: "One life is meant for being exploited by other life." This is nature's law. So we have no quarrel with persons who are meat-eating. But our propaganda is to make people God conscious. That's all.

*So in order to become God conscious, you have to follow some rules and regulations. We do not give any credit to the vegetarians than the meat*-eaters. Because one has to eat. But our proposal is, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, that we shall eat remnants of foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. And Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26], that Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who offers Me a little fruit, a little water, and little leaf with devotion and love, I accept it." Kṛṣṇa is not hungry that He is begging some food from us. No. He is trying to create loving transaction: "You love Me; *I love you." Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇa, practically by His energy everything is produced. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So why He should beg for, from me, a little leaf and little fruit and little water? He has no business. But if we offer a little fruit and little leaf and little water with love-"Kṛṣṇa, I am so poor that I cannot secure anything. I have secured this little fruit and little flowers and a leaf. Kindly accept it"*-Kṛṣṇa is very glad. Yes. And if He eats, offered by you, your life is successful. You make friendship with Kṛṣṇa. That is our preaching.

So this little fruit, little flower and little water can be secured any part of the world by any man, poor or rich. And can be offered. Simply we have to try, we have to learn how to love Kṛṣṇa. And love begins with this give and take. You give something to your lover; he gives you, something to you. In this way love develops. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. The development takes place, loving affairs, by giving and taking. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva. When you create loving transaction with any boy or girl or any man, any friend, the give and take. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching us give and take. "You give something," Kṛṣṇa is begging. "You try to love Me. You learn how to love Me. Give Me." "Sir, I have nothing to give You." "Oh, you cannot collect a little fruit and flower and leaf and little water?" "Oh, yes. Why not? Anyone can collect." So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice. You can make direct friendship with Kṛṣṇa. You can become direct servant of Kṛṣṇa. Or, in higher stages, you can become father, mother of Kṛṣṇa. Or you can become lover of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to establish loving relationship... There is already loving relationship with us, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like father and son. Son is the part of the body of the father. Similarly, the supreme father... So as the relationship between the father and the son cannot be broken... It may be forgotten for some time, but as soon as one knows, "He's my father," and as soon as one knows, "He's my son," immediately affection develops.

*So we are eternally related with Kṛṣṇa. At the present moment it is simply forgotten, suppressed. Therefore we are thinking that we have no relationship with Kṛṣṇa. But that is not the fact. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the relationship is eternal. Simply we have to revive it. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means... We are now in different consciousness. I am thinking that I am Indian. Somebody is thinking, "I am American." Somebody is thinking, "I am this, I am that." But actual thinking should be "I am Kṛṣṇa's." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I am Kṛṣṇa's." And in Kṛṣṇa consciousness relationship, because Kṛṣṇa is for everyone, therefore I become everyone's. Just try to understand. In India, the system is when a girl is married to a boy, so*-in your country also, everywhere, the same system-just like the nephew of the boy calls the girl "Aunt." Now, how she becomes aunt? Because, in relationship with her husband. Before the marriage, she was not aunt, but as soon as he (she) is related with her husband, the husband's nephew become the nephew. Just try to understand the example. Similarly, if we reestablish our relationship, or our original relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is for everyone, therefore I become for everyone. That is real universal love. The artificial, so-called universal love cannot be established unless you have established your relationship with the central point. Just like you are Americans. Why? Because you are born in this land. So another American is a member of your country, but if you become something else, then you have no relationship with another American. So we have to reestablish our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then the question of universal brotherhood, justice, peace, prosperity will come. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Central point missing. How there can be justice and peace? It is not possible.

*Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā the peace formula is given. The peace formula is that one should understand that Kṛṣṇa is the only enjoyer. Just like in this temple, our central point is Kṛṣṇa. If we are cooking, it is for Kṛṣṇa, not that we are cooking for our purpose. Ultimately, although we shall eat the prasādam, but when we cook, we don't think that we are cooking for ourself. We are cooking for Kṛṣṇa. When you go outside to collect some funds, it is not that the persons who are in the kīrtana party, they have got any personal interest. No. They are collecting, or they are distributing the literature, for Kṛṣṇa's sake, for making people Kṛṣṇa conscious. And whatever collection is there, that is being spent for Kṛṣṇa. So in this way, when we are practiced to this system of life, everything for Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The same thing, what we are doing, we have to do. Simply we have to change the consciousness, that "I am doing for Kṛṣṇa, not for my personal." In this way, if we develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we come to our original consciousness. Then we become happy.

Unless we come to the original consciousness, then we are crazy in different degrees. Everyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is to be supposed crazy because he is talking on a platform which is temporary, transient. It will be finished. But we, as living entities, we are eternal. So temporary business is not our business. Our business should be eternal because we are eternal. And that eternal business is how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body, but the finger's eternal business is how to serve this body, here. That's all. It has no other business. And that is the healthy state of the finger. If it cannot serve the whole body, that is diseased condition. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is eternal; we are eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These are the Vedic instructions. The supreme eternal is Śrī Kṛṣṇa, and we are also eternal. We are not supreme; we are subordinate. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is the supreme living entity, and we are subordinate living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That one living entity, one eternal, He's supplying all the necessities of life to the plural number eternals. Eko bahūnām, unlimited number of living entities. You cannot count. Bahūnām. This is our relationship. So, as part and parcel, we have to serve Kṛṣṇa, and we are subordinate. He is supplying our necessities. He is the Supreme Father. This life is normal life and liberated life. Any other life, beyond this conception of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is sinful life.

So in this subject matter, topics between Śukadeva Gosvāmī and Mahārāja Parīkṣit, there is... Parīkṣit Mahārāja is anxious to know how these conditioned souls who are rotting in the hellish condition of life, they can be delivered. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is first of all prescribing that they have to make atonement. Just like I gave you the example: If one man has committed criminal activities, he has to atone for the sinful activity. He must be arrested. He must be put into the jail and given some trouble for a certain period of time. And then he may be given freedom. So this atonement is there, by nature's law. You cannot avoid it. If you think that "God cannot see. I am doing this nonsense without His vision," that is wrong. Anything we do, that is recorded just like the service record. And the judgment... Just like in other literatures, there is the day of judgment. That's fact. We have to accept the judgment of the superior superintendent of all our activities.

*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that the volume of atonement should be according to the gravity of the offense. Just like when a man is diseased, he goes to a physician. He prescribes different type of medicine to the different type of patient according to the gravity of the disease. But there are many rascals, they say that any medicine we take, that's all right. No. That's not all right. You have to take the medicine through the physician, not independently. In your country there is law that you cannot purchase from the drug shop any medicine without being prescribed by the medical man. Is it not? So the prescription should be taken from the experienced physician to cure the disease. So in this age, Kali*-yuga... It is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means the age of quarrel and misunderstanding. This is the age. For nothing there is misunderstanding and quarrel and fight and war, for nothing. So in this age the medicine for delivering the conditioned souls from miserable, materialistic way of life is prescribed in the śāstras. What is that? Harer nāma, simply chanting of the holy name of Hari, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam: [Cc. Ādi 17.21] "In this age, simply this harer nāma kevalam, only." There is no other alternative. Therefore in the next line it is stressed, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā: "There is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative."

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on authority. We are prescribing the right medicine, and it is becoming very effective also. That is the proof. If you say that "How I can understand that this medicine is very effective?" Yes, it is effective. By chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, any part of the world, although they do not know the meaning, they chant and they join and they become rectified, and they become bright*-faced. That is the verdict. So therefore we appeal to everyone, irrespective of any caste-creed consideration, please come, join this movement, and be happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750621SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.8

-

Los Angeles, June 21, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*tasmāt puraivāśv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau

yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā

*doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā

bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit

[SB 6.1.8]



*So the discussion is going on between Parīkṣit Mahārāja and Śukadeva Gosvāmī. In the last portion of the Fifth Canto, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has given description of different hellish planets down this universe. There are many hellish planets. As there are heavenly planets, similarly there are hellish planets. Those who are pious, in the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system, and those who are very much abominable, condemned, they are degraded to the lower planetary system. There are different planets, and our modern scientists, they say that "Except this earthly planet, there is no life." This is their knowledge. But actually that is not the fact. Everywhere there is life*-but the life of different grades. Just like here also we see. In this planet some of them are very well situated, and some of them are very much degraded in every respect, by birth, janma aiṣvarya, by opulence, and by education, by beauty. There is such arrangement, by nature's law, that you are promoted or degraded. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that prakṛti, we are under the guidance or rulings of material nature. That is It is not a fact that "We are independent," "There is no life after death." These are all foolish man's theory. We are eternal, there is life after death, and that life also has got different gradation. So this has been described, and this is the fact.



*Now, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, being Vaiṣṇava, he became very much sympathetic with the persons who are degraded in the hellish planet. So his question was, "My dear sir," Śukadeva Gosvāmī his spiritual master, that "how these people could be saved from this hellish condition of life?" This is Vaiṣṇava's concern. Vaiṣṇava is not a pickpocket, that he will exploit others for his benefit. No. Para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava's business is: he is very unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Prahlāda Mahārāja said like that:

*naivodvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyās

*tvad*-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna cittaḥ

*śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa māyā-sukhāya

bharam udvahato vimūḍhān

[SB 7.9.43]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja, he said to Nṛsiṁhadeva, "My Lord," na udvije, "I am not at all in anxiety." Na udvije. Para: "You are transcendental." Naivodvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyās. Duratyaya means very difficult to cross over. Vaitaraṇyā, vaitaraṇi, the nescience, ocean of nescience. "Why you are not afraid of?" Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna cittaḥ: "Because I am now Kṛṣṇa conscious, and as soon as I hear the glories of Your wonderful activities, I become merged in it. So I have no problem." "Then you appear to be little unhappy. Why?" "No," śoce, "I am very much aggrieved." "Why?" Tato vimukha-cetasa: "For these rascals who do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am thinking of them. Instead of taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are busy in māyā-sukhāya, māyā, this temporary, little temporary happiness. They are making big, big program. He will live for fifty years, but he is making program for five millions of years. So I am...," śoce, "I am actually lamenting for them." This is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is not very anxious or unhappy for his personal affair. He knows that "Everywhere I will be protected by Kṛṣṇa," so he has no problem. Therefore real Vaiṣṇava, he wants to deliver all these fallen souls from this miserable condition of life. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is Vaiṣṇava. His first attention was drawn to the persons in the hellish planet. They are suffering. He questioned, "How they can be saved?" That is his concern. This is Vaiṣṇava.



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is answering. The spiritual master and disciple... First of all he wanted to test where is standing Parīkṣit Mahārāja. So there are three kinds of processes for becoming free from these material clutches. One is karma, the other is jñāna, or yoga, and the other is bhakti. So first of all Parīkṣit Mahārāja was tested by Śukadeva Gosvāmī whether he is satisfied by the karma*-kāṇḍa, or fruitive activities. Fruitive activities means that "I have done something wrong. So I go to the church and make some atonement and finished; *then again I do." This is karma*-kāṇḍa. Just like somebody has done something criminal. He says, "All right, never mind. I shall go to the court and pay some fine. That's all." So this is karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra. And nowadays, even karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, they are also not accepted. People have become so foolish. This karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, means action and reaction of the fruitive activities, they also do not believe that. This is the lowest grade. So here it is answered that "If you want to be saved from the sinful reaction of your life and put into the hellish condition, then you have to do like this." Tasmāt purā eva āśu iha pāpa-niṣkṛtau. Tasmāt: "Therefore, in order to become freed from the reaction of your sinful activities," pāpa-niṣkṛtau, puraiva, purā eva āśu, "before your death, as soon as possible, you should atone. You should counteract. Otherwise you will suffer very much." Just like a disease. A little disease, if you treat immediately, it may not increase to be a very problem, big problem disease. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has instructed that three things we should be very careful: disease, fire, and debts. If there is disease, if you think, "Oh, this is little ailment. There is no need of going to the doctor," no, you must immediately take steps. It may increase to be a very big problem. Disease increases. Similarly fire. If there is fire, you have extinguished everything and little fire there is, if you think that "Oh, little fire, it will automatically...," no, that also you must extinguish. Otherwise it may take into big fire again. Similarly debts. If you don't clear your debts, if you think, "All right, there is some debts. It will...," no, interest, compound interest So similarly, the disease. We are already in the material disease. This birth, death, old age, and disease. This is our material miserable condition. And again, if we act sinfully, then it will increase. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is advising that "Before your death, you should atone for the sinful activities, what you have done." Just like in the Manu-saṁhitā, if a man has committed some murder, it is advised that King should order him to be hanged. Otherwise next life he will have to suffer so much. So this order of hanging a murderer is a kind of kindness to the criminal.

*So here it is advised that doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā [SB 6.1.8]. There are different kinds of sinful activities, and there are different kinds of suffering also. A little infection of bronchitis, the suffering is not so acute, but infection of smallpox is fatal. We should always remember that. We are infecting. On account of this material world, we are infecting different modes of material nature. I have explained several times. There are three modes of material nature, and when you mix up, then it becomes three into three equal to nine, and again mix up, nine into nine, eighty-one, and again mix up Every minute particles, there is account. You cannot avoid. Material nature's punishment you cannot avoid. Even little, whatever you have done, it will be punished. Automatically the rules and regulations are there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-sangaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so different varieties of life if there is no some judgment behind it? There must be. Otherwise everyone should have been of the same bodily feature, same standard of life, same opulence. No. So many grades, because the modes of material nature are different, different mixture.

*So here it is said that doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru-lāghavaṁ yathā [SB 6.1.8]. Doṣa. Still people in India, they go to a bhaṭṭācārya, that "Sir, I have done this sinful activity. What is my atonement?" Amongst the Christian also, they go to the church. So guru-lāghavaṁ dṛṣṭvā. Guru means heavy. We use this word guru. Guru means heavy. So according to the criminal activities Just like a man has stolen some fruit from a fruit shop, his criminality is not equal to the man who has committed murder*-one he has killed one man. This is guru-lāghavam. So there is punishment according to the heaviness and lightness of criminal activities. The example is given here: bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit. Just like you go to a physician for treatment of your disease, he gives different types of medicine. Not that one medicine for everyone. No. If one has got little headache, he gives one that tablet, aspirin tablet, but if it is pneumonia, then the treatment is different. That is being advised, that "One has to see what kind of sinful activity he has done and what is the atonement for that purpose." This is advised. Parīkṣit Mahārāja was advised that "These people, they are suffering in different grades of suffering on account of different grades of sinful activities. So best thing is: before death, if they seek atonement for different grades of sinful activities, then it is good for him so that after death he may not suffer very severely." But people do not accept even that "There is life after death, we are eternal, and the infection which you are committing, that will react." There is no such knowledge. The modern civilization is so foolish. Simply like cats and dogs, they are eating and sleeping and sex life and little defense, that's all. They have no knowledge.

*So therefore we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lokasya ajānataḥ, they do not know what kind of risky life they are conducting. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to make them awakened to the consciousness. That is the duty of a sane man or a gentleman. That is the instruction of the Vedas, to awaken people. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. This Vedic instruction is, to the human society, uttiṣṭhata: "Get up." Jāgrata: "Don't sleep. Be awakened." Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. "You have got a boon. Try to understand it." Nibodhata. Prāpya varān. Varān means benediction. What is that benediction? The benediction is this human form of life. You should understand that you are not cat and dog, simply you shall spoil your life by eating, sleeping, and sex and defense. No. This is very valuable life. Labdhvā su*-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. This is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "No, don't spoil it. You have got this boon, this human form of life, after many, many births, evolutionary process. Don't you see so many different varieties of life? And you had to undergo through all these life. Now you have come to human form of life, so you should utilize it."

*So that full utilization is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we shall come, one after another. This karma*-kāṇḍīya vicāra, this will not help us. That will be discussed in the next verse. Neither the mental speculation will help us. Unless we come to the platform of bhakti and fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, it is very, very difficult. We will have to continue. In many places, śāstra, it is said.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



*Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ: "The people have become mad." And why? Kurute vikarma. "They are acting adversely, against the principle of life." Vikarma. Karma, vikarma. Karma means to act according to the injunction of the śāstra, and vikarma means to act against. Then you suffer. So vikarma. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Now, why they are doing? Because they are mad, pramattaḥ. What for mad? Yad indriya*-prītaya: "Simply for sense gratification." There is no other profit. A temporary sense gratification. They are acting so sinfully. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, na sādhu manye: "This is not good." Why? Yata ātmano 'yam: "Because you have got already this material body, this temporary body." So "That's all right. I have got this temporary body. It will be finished." No. Asann api kleśada: "Although it is temporary, so long you will possess this material body, you will have to suffer so many suffering, threefold miseries." So they don't care for it because illiterate. Not illiterate-ignorant. Literary knowledge is not sufficient. There must be real knowledge. The real knowledge you will get from the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Real knowledge you will get from guru, from Kṛṣṇa. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. That is real knowledge. Otherwise, anything has got some knowledge, that knowledge is not sufficient.



*So the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam is full of knowledge. It is specially compiled by Vyāsadeva to help the foolish human society and save him from all kinds of miserable condition of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760509SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.8

-

Honolulu, May 9, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Chapter Three..., Chapter One, verse number eight. (devotees repeat:)



*tasmāt purā eva āśv iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau

yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā

*doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru*-lāghavaṁ yathā

bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit

[SB 6.1.8]



*So there are different varieties of sinful activities, just like there are different varieties of diseases. To become diseased is not our normal life. To remain healthy is our normal life. When we become diseased, that is abnormal condition of life. Therefore we want to treat, get out of the disease. Similarly, this material life is the diseased condition of the living being. We are all living beings, but because we have accepted this material body, we are suffering. Mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. Now we require this fan. Why? Because feeling some pains on account of heat. That heat is felt by the body, not the soul. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. These material pains and pleasure, they are simply touching this body, not the soul. Soul is always aloof. Just like we are on a car. Suppose there is some accident: the car is broken, but not the person, the driver, is broken. The car is broken. But because the driver or the proprietor of the car is too much adhered to the car, when the car is broken, his heart fails. Actually the person has nothing to do with the car, but because he is too much attached to the car, when the car is broken, he thinks, "I am finished." Heart is broken. Like that.



*So we are part and parcel of God, every one of us. So we remain always pure, but on account of material attachment, we are suffering. This is the position. So therefore the diseased condition of our present life has to be treated. What is that treatment? To become detached. On account of attachment we are suffering. But... (aside:) You should... Outside. Detachment. So the detachment, there are many different processes of becoming detached: karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and many other processes. But the most perfect process is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga. That is stated, vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam. If one is trained up to become devotee of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa... Vāsudeva means Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeve bhagavati. Vāsudeva is the Supreme Personality, Bhagavān. Bhagavati. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaṁ prayojitaḥ. If we engage ourself in the bhakti-yoga process to Vasudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then what happens? Janaty āśu vairāgyam. Then very soon one becomes detached. Vairāgya. The bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā, how to become detached. That is the test. "Whether I am making progress in the bhakti-yoga?"*-the test is within yourself. You haven't got to take a certificate from others. How much you are becoming detached to this material world, that is the test. If you are still attached to the material pleasures, that means you are not making progress in bhakti-yoga. It is a test.

*Just like bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. Vairāgya*-vidyā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His example of life, He was twenty-four years, young boy, and He had a very beautiful sixteen-years-old wife, very affectionate mother. In the family, two persons, the mother and the wife, if they are very, very good, then the happy life... In the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita therefore said,

mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti

*bhāryā cāpriya*-vādinī

araṇyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ

yathāraṇyaṁ tathā gṛham



*At home if one has no mother and if his wife is not very, I mean, what is called, apriya*-vādinī, does not speak very well... Wife is meant for speaking very well to the husband. That is the husband and wife relationship. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says if the wife is not very attached and does not speak very well... Means does not like the husband on the whole. If such wife is at home and mother is not there... This is ideal Indian happy home. But in your country it is very rare, you see. But this is the standard of happiness. So if there is no mother and there is no good wife, then araṇyaṁ tena gantavyam, immediately he should give up that home. Araṇyam: he should go to the forest. "Why forest? In the city, I have got very nice home, nice building." No. For a person who has no good wife, neither mother, for him, yathāraṇyaṁ tathā gṛham. For him either this home or the forest, it is same. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had these two greatest attachment at home, very affectionate mother. You have read about Śacīmātā is... Because He was the only... Out of his (her) ten children, only Caitanya Mahāprabhu was the living child of Śacīmātā. So naturally she was very, very affection to his (her) son, and this Viṣṇupriyā, wife, very, very affectionate, beautiful, young-but He gave up. This is called vairāgya-vidyā, no attachment. Although there is reason of attachment, but He had no attachment.



*tyaktvā sudustyaja*-surepsita rājya-lakṣmīṁ

*dharmiṣṭha ārya*-vacasā yad agād araṇyam

*māyā*-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvad

*vande mahā*-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam

[SB 11.5.34]



*He left home for the benefit of the whole human society. This is vairāgya*-vidyā.



*Similarly, the Gosvāmīs, they were ministers. They were not ordinary men, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. Practically they were governing the whole affairs of government at that time, a very exalted post. So about them also, it is written by Śrīnivāsācārya, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. Aśeṣa-maṇḍala. Maṇḍala-pati means big, big leaders, big, big leaders of the society. He was minister, so he was associating with big, big men, not ordinary men. But he gave up. He's such a position, minister, drawing high salary, and association, all the big, big men of the country or the society. But he gave them up-sadā tuccha-vat, that "What is the use of this?" This is called vairāgya. Tyaktvā tūrṇam... Very soon. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. Not only one, many, many big men were flattering them. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. Then what he became? Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. They are so affectionate for the poor, suffering souls. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā. So Vaiṣṇava is very, very merciful. They are merciful to the fallen souls. Their only concern is how to deliver these fallen souls. They are under the clutches of māyā, suffering. So various means adopting, just try to save them. This is Vaiṣṇava business. Nānā-śāstra-vicā raṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. These Gosvāmīs, they were studying so many books, Vedic literature and found out the cream, how to establish... Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthā... Sad-dharma, not cheating dharma. Dharma means religion. Real religion, sad-dharma. So the sad-dharma... As soon as we become addicted to sinful activities, then our real, constitutional position we forget, and we become mad after it and the disease increases.

So here it is suggested that "According to the disease..." Diseases, there are different types of disease. Some disease is very acute; *some disease is not very important. So he suggests that tasmāt purā eva ca iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau yateta mṛtyor avipadya ātmanā. You have to die. That is a fact. Nobody will live here. "As sure as death." So before death we must finish the atonement of our sinful activities. This is recommended. Purā. Tasmāt purā eva iha pāpa-niṣkṛtau. But nobody knows. At the present moment they do not know what is pāpa and how to get out of it, what is next birth. Everything is unknown at the present moment. This is the modern civilization. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu took one thing, that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. They are in gross misunderstanding of life. So in order to cleanse their heart to understand what is the position where they are going, where they are actually, how things are going on... It is due to ignorance.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Ceto-da... Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvā... Unless we cleanse our hearts of all the dirty things that we have accumulated, then we have to continue the sufferings of this material world. But if we cleanse, we understand what is our position. The position is that we are part and parcel of God. If God is good, we are also good. Just like gold and particle of gold. If gold is valuable, the little particle, it may be less valuable, but it is valuable. It is not ordinary thing. Similarly, we living entities, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "These, all these living entities, they are My part and parcels," means "as good as I am." But thing is that manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣ... He is concocting; *he is manufacturing ideas to become happy. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. And with the senses he is trying to satisfy himself. But because he has no information how to become happy, manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Karṣati means that is struggle for existence.

That struggle for existence is explained by different scholars and philosophers in different way. But actually there is struggle for existence and they are trying to be happy manufacturing different types of struggle for existence. The other day who was saying that they have now discovered another way of happiness. Flying in the air? Yes. Now the sufferers, or what is called?

Devotee: Surfers.



*Prabhupāda: That is not sufficient. Now they want to fly. You see. Another discovery. This is going on. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Actually they are manufacturing different ways of suffering. And there is no happiness. Simply the business is going on, manufacturing different ways of suffering. So therefore that is disease. This is our material disease, and it is recommended here that before the next death, if we come to the right conclusion how we shall become happy, then this process of continuously dying and again taking birth and again disease and again old age, then it is not very good.



But they are so fools and rascals, they do not know how the life is going on, how nature is working upon us. Everything is in darkness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only hope for human society. Only hope. It is not story; it is fact. So those who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I request that take it very seriously and read the books and make progress and simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then everything, all problems, will be solved.

Thank you very much. (end)



750622SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.9

-

Los Angeles, June 22, 1975



Santoṣa: "I have actually seen that one who becomes a criminal by committing sinful acts is punished by the government's law, but although rebuked, he does the same thing again. One also hears from the scriptures spoken by learned scholars that committing sin throws one into hell in the next life. Nevertheless, although he has received full experience through seeing and hearing, which are the sources of practical knowledge, he is forced repeatedly to commit sins and again perform acts of atonement. What then is the value of such atonement?"



Prabhupāda:



dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyaṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitaṁ

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



This is intelligence. Mahārāja Parīkṣit is Vaiṣṇava, and his inquiry was: "How these men who are rotting in this hellish condition can be relieved?" That was his question. So... (about music on loudspeakers:) What is that?



Jayatīrtha: The radio, some interference on the microphone. The radio is being picked up outside.



*Prabhupāda: I have already explained that there are three ways, karma*-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, and upāsanā-kāṇḍa. Therefore Veda is called trayī, three kinds of activities. So devotees, they are not in the karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. He is not pure devotee. Bhakti means jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam: [Cc. Madhya 19.167] "There is no touch of this fruitive activities or speculative knowledge." The devotees do not accept this.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*That is first*-class bhakti, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlana, just to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He was not willing to fight or to kill the other party. That is very good. He is a Vaiṣṇava. Naturally he does not like to fight or pick up quarrel with others or do some harm to others. Vaiṣṇava is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He knows very well that "If something harmful is done to me, I am unhappy, so why should I commit the same thing to others?" So But in spite of his conviction that he should not fight, still, when Kṛṣṇa insisted up to the point that "Your this mercy upon them will not act because it is already My plan that they will have to die. So you have become very kind, but you cannot surpass My plan. That is not possible. I have come here..." Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. "That is My true mission: to save the devotees and to annihilate the nondevotees. So here I have brought them all together in this battlefield, and it will be finished."



*Whenever there is some crash, either railway or the airplane, it should be noted that all those passengers are destined to die by the will of God, and they come together and destroy.(?) Because without the sanction, will, of God, nothing can take place. [break] ...some reason. Father is not unkind, but when father denies the same facility he is giving to the other child, that does not mean he is unkind. [break] ...the devotee is suffering from some reverse condition, then he is feeling very much obliged to Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, my dear Lord, it is Your great mercy that I am suffering." This is devotee. He is suffering and he is taking it as great mercy of God. Tat te anukampām. Anukampā. Anukampā means mercy. So it is Your mercy. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma*-kṛtaṁ vipākam [SB 10.14.8]. He knows the same thing, that a man suffers on account of his past sinful activities or present sinful activities. The past or present doesn't matter. If one is sinful, then he must be punished.

*Just like here it is said, dṛṣṭa. Dṛṣṭa means by direct experience. Direct experience everyone has seen, that a thief, he is arrested. This is our direct experience. He has committed theft, and therefore he is arrested by the police. It is our direct experience. And śrutābhyām, by hearing from the lawbook or scripture, whatever you take... In the lawbook it is stated that "You commit a theft, then you will be punished, imprisoned, for six months. Or if you commit murder, then you will be hanged." This is called śrutābhyām, by hearing. We have got two senses: one, by the knowledge-acquiring senses, and practical working senses. So dṛṣṭa means our eyes are working, and we see that a criminal is arrested and he is punished. And śruta means knowledge-gathering. Just like you gather knowledge from book. So we have got two senses*-not two senses, but ten senses: five senses, knowledge gathering, and five senses, directing, knowledge, working senses. So dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām means by two senses, two kinds of senses: knowledge-gathering senses and working senses. We have experience by two kinds of senses. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that a person, means a sinful person, he is getting experience from the both kinds of senses, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām, and by that experience he knows that "This is not good. This is a sinful act." Just like in your country, in each cigarette packet, what is written there?

Sudāmā: "It is hazardous for the health."



Prabhupāda: So he knows it, that "I am smoking something which is detrimental to my health." But why he is smoking? Why he is smoking? This is the question. Prāyaścitta... Now from smoking sometimes he gets bronchitis or something, some disease in the heart. So he goes to the doctor, he suffers, and he takes medicine and he is cured, then again smoking, again do the same thing. One is suffering from syphilis, and he is suffering so much. The doctor gives injection and so on, so on. Then, after being cured, again doing the same. That is his question. It is not that a man always commits sinful activities without knowledge. No. They have full knowledge. So if one does, cannot resist himself from sinful activity, then what is the meaning of this atonement? He rejects, "This is useless." You commit some sinful activities and go to the church and pay some fine, and again you commit sinful acts. So it is useless. That is questioned by Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Prāyaścittam atho katham: "What is this?"That is intelligence. He is devotee. He knows that this kind of atonement is useless. It has no meaning.



*So the problem is that within the heart we have got so many dirty things. So unless those dirty things are removed or cleansed, this kind of prāyaścitta or medicine or fine or going to the jail*-he is not saved. He will commit the same thing. Again will suffer. Again he will suffer. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Real problem is that we should stop our suffering. But the karmīs, they are interested in the temporary cure, and they do not know how to cure completely. There will be no more suffering. That they do not know. But a Vaiṣṇava, because he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he knows what is real suffering-because he understands from Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Your real suffering is these four things, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: [Bg. 13.9] repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. Actually this is your problem." So without devotees, without hearing from Kṛṣṇa, these rascals, they do not know actually what is the problem nor what is suffering. They are simply concerned with temporary suffering and temporary cure. Therefore they have been explained, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, as mūḍhas. Mūḍha means ass.

So the whole world is going on like that, full of asses. Not only asses, but like other animal... That past sinful activities or present sinful activities. The past or present doesn't matter. If one is sinful, then he must be punished.

Just like here it is said, dṛṣṭa. Dṛṣṭa means by direct experience. Direct experience everyone has seen, that a thief, he is arrested. This is our direct experience. He has committed theft, and therefore he is arrested by the police. It is our direct experience. And śrutābhyām, by hearing from the lawbook or scripture, whatever you take... "O my dear lion, O king..." Lion is considered as the king of the animals, paśu rāja. Actually, he is the king in the jungle. Everyone is afraid of him, he is so powerful. Even the elephant is afraid of the lion. So if the lion is praised by some small animals, does it mean the lion is not animal? Has it any value like the human being? No. Still he is animal. Even though the small animals are praising, giving votes, "You become president," (laughter) but who is these voters? Another animal. This is democracy. The small animals are voting the big animal. So how you can expect peace? That much I have already explained. So this is not civilization, that the small animals giving vote to the big animals to occupy the government. That is going on. This will not help.

*So according to Vedic civilization, the king or the president or the ruling chief must be representative of God. That is wanted. Therefore you will find in the Bhagavad*-gītā, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ: [Bg. 4.2] "This Bhagavad-gītā was understood by the rājarṣi." Rājarṣi means... Rāja means king, and ṛṣi means great saintly person. Rājarṣi. So education, culture, is meant for the higher two classes, the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas. Education means for them, those who are intelligent, for them. Education is not for masses. Now it is called mass education. So mass education means it will produce undesirable elements. That's all. So the Vedic system is there must be first of all the most intelligent class of men. They should be given education how to become self-controlled, śamaḥ; how to control the mind, how to control the senses; śama damaḥ satyam, how to become truthful; śaucam, how to become cleanse; śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa, how to become tolerant; ārjavam, how to become simple, no intricacy; śamo damas satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam eva ca, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, full of knowledge; and vijñānam, practical application in life; āstikyam, and to believe in the existence of God or knowing God partially or fully. Partially knowing God means impersonal or Paramātmā. This is partial. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11].

They say religion is a kind of faith. Similarly, during some play I heard it is that...(?) So "You are okay; I am okay." Our proposal is not that. Our proposal is: "You are not okay; I am okay." (laughter)

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760107SB.NEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.9

-

Nellore, January 7, 1976



Prabhupāda:



dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitaṁ

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



"Mahārāja Parīkṣit said: One may know that sinful activity is injurious for him because he actually sees that a criminal is punished by the government and rebuked by the people in general, and because he hears from the scriptures and learned scholars that one is thrown into hellish condition in the next life for committing sinful acts. Nevertheless, in spite of such knowledge one is forced to commit sins again and again, even after performing acts of atonement. Therefore what is the value of such atonement?"



kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārthaṁ

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]



"Mahārāja Parīkṣit said: Sometimes one who is very alert so as not to commit sinful acts is victimized by sinful life again. I therefore consider this process of repeated sinning and atoning to be useless. It is like the bathing of an elephant, for an elephant cleanses itself by taking a full bath but then throws dust over its head and body as soon as it returns to the land."



*In every religious system there is a process of atonement. In Christian religion there is a process of atonement called confession. The Parīkṣit Mahārāja is practical politician. He said that... He had also experience that a criminal is punished and again he commits the criminal act. Nowadays we practically see also that government has enacted so many laws against criminality, but criminality is going on without any stoppage. We have got practical experience, as we have explained last night, that in the airport the security checking is going on for everyone, which means that after so much education, every one of us, we are dishonest. This answer is there in the śāstra: yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. This means that if one is turned to be a pure devotee, then all the good qualities automatically become manifest in him. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā manorathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. Whereas a nondevotee, he has no good qualification because he is acting on the mental platform, as such, he will be always attracted by material things.

*In this connection I shall recite one historical incident from the Purāṇas. There was a hunter in Prayāg. Prayāg you know, in Allahabad. So he was hunting in the forest indiscriminately. So Nārada Muni was passing through the jungle and he was very compassionate to see the animals being half*-dead and half-killed by the hunter. Nārada Muni, being Vaiṣṇava, he was very kind to all living entities, so he went to the hunter whose name was Mṛgāri. So the Mṛgāri thought that "This saintly person is coming to me for some deerskin," so he said, "Sir, don't disturb in my business. If you want deerskin I shall give you. Please get out of my activities for the present." Nārada Muni said that "I have not come here to ask for deerskin, but I simply ask you that if you want to kill the animals, you kill them total. Why you are killing half?" The hunter said, "What is the difference between killing whole and killing half?"

*Actually he had no idea about pāpa and puṇya. Actually, those who are animal*-hunter, they cannot understand what is spiritual life, what is God, what is sinful life, what is pious life. There is a verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam quoted by Mahārāja Parīkṣit,

*nivṛtta*-tarṣair upagīyamānād

*bhavauṣadhāc chrotra*-mano-'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

[SB 10.1.4]



Unless one is animal hunter, he cannot be away from chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So Nārada Muni said that "If you kill the animal totally it is less sinful than you kill them half." Nārada Muni said, "No, if you kill the animal half, it is more sinful than you kill them whole." The hunter said that "From my childhood I have been taught like this by my father. I do not know which is sinful, which is pious." Nārada Muni, as Vaiṣṇava, advised him that "You stop this hunting business and I will give you your livelihood." So hunter, having seen a Vaiṣṇava, was little convinced about spiritual life. Then he said that "Sir, if you give me my livelihood, then I can give up my, this business." Then Nārada Muni suggested that "You and your wife may come with me. I shall arrange for your livelihood. You give up this business."



So they followed the instruction of Nārada Muni, the spiritual master, and they came with Nārada Muni and sat down in a place on the bank of the Ganges at Prayāg. Nārada Muni gave them one tulasī plant, and they sat down near the tulasī plant, and he advised that "Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." In the meantime, in the village it was advertised that "The hunter has become a Vaiṣṇava. Let us go and see." So people who were coming to visit, they were bringing... It is the custom still now, India, that when you go to see some Deity or a Vaiṣṇava, sādhu, you bring some..., one must give rice or attar; you give them as contribution. So he thought that Nārada Muni was sending the attar, rice, dahl, and everything. So he became confident that he would not die because he is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In this way he gradually became a perfect Vaiṣṇava because he was chanting under the instruction of the spiritual master and committing no sinful activities. So we being in the disciplic succession of Nārada Muni, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are advising the same principle, that "Don't commit sinful activities, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra."

So one day Nārada Muni asked his friend, Parvata Muni, "I have got a disciple. Let us go and see him." (to translator:) Parvata Muni, his friend. Yes. So when Nārada Muni and Parvata Muni was coming to the same hunter who had become now a Vaiṣṇava, so he was going to receive his spiritual master by going forward. So while he was going forward towards his spiritual master to receive him, on the way he was jumping in so many places. So Parvata Muni asked him that "Why you are jumping on your way while coming to us?" The hunter, the Vaiṣṇava, he replied, "Sir, there were so many ants on the ground. Therefore I was trying to avoid trampling them." So Parvata Muni was surprised, that "This man was hunting and killing animal half. Now, because he has become a Vaiṣṇava, he is not prepared to kill even an ant."

So this is the practical instance that if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all the good qualities manifest in his body. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī replied to Parīkṣit Mahārāja that "You are saying right that simply by atonement, simply by punishment, one cannot become honest." Practically speaking, if you simply enact laws to make people honest, it is impossible to do that. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī said,

*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iṣyate

avidvad adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam



The Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "O son of Vedavyasa..." The Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the son of Vedavyasa... Śukadeva Gosvāmī is the son of Vyāsadeva. He answered, "My dear king, since acts meant to neutralize impious action are also fruitive, they will not relieve one from the tendency to act fruitively. Persons who subject themselves to the rules and regulation of atonement are not at all intelligent. Indeed, they are in the mode of darkness. Unless is freed from the mode of ignorance, trying to counteract one action through another is useless because this will not uproot one's desire. Thus, even though one may superficially seem pious, he will undoubtedly be prone to act impiously. Therefore real atonement is enlightenment in perfect knowledge, Vedānta, by which one understands the Supreme Absolute Truth." In this verse there is one particular word, vimarśanam. The meaning of this vimarśanam: "full knowledge of Vedānta."



*Then Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued to speak, "My dear king, if a diseased person eats the pure, uncontaminated food prescribed by a physician, he is gradually cured and the infection of disease can no longer touch him. If one follows the regulative principles of knowledge, he gradually progresses toward liberation from material contamination." Therefore in the Vedānta*-sūtra it is said that athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now this life, human form of life, is simply meant for inquiring about Brahman." At the present moment, especially in this Kali-yuga, nobody is interested in brahma-jijñāsā. Therefore he prescribes from scripture,

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyaṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*One should make his life successful by tapasya, austerity, penance. So brahmācārya is one of the item. Tapasya means beginning with brahmācārya, celibacy. Here we have given the meaning of tapasya: "by austerity or voluntary rejection of material enjoyment." Tapasā bramacaryeṇa. So tapasya. I do not like something to do because it is pleasing to me, but for the sake of my advancement of spiritual life I must have it. This is called tapasya. We prescribe four kinds of regulative principle: no illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. In the Western countries these four things are very ordinary means of life. In the Western countries practically cent percent population, they are addicted to these sinful activities. So in our society, anyone who joins, he has to accept these four principles of regulative life.



So brahmācārya, celibacy, sex, prohibition of sex life, especially illicit sex life... Unless one is married, no sex life is allowed. That is called brahmācārya. Tapasya begins with brahmācārya, life of celibacy, or accepting one wife only. That's all. Then śamena. Śamena, controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Śamena damena ca, these two things required. We should not become the servant of the mind; *we should become master of the mind. And tyāgena. Tyāgena. Therefore in the śāstra the process of charity is recommended. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is also recommended that yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriya na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. Because I have renounced this world, it does not mean I shall give up the process of performing yajña, dāna, and tapasya. It is further stressed, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriya pāvanāni manīṣiṇāḥ. Even if you think that you are very advanced, still, you should not give up these three processes, means performing yajña, giving in charity, and performing tapasya. "One must then control the mind and senses, give charity, be truthful, clean, and nonviolent, follow the regulative principle, and regularly chant the holy name of the Lord. Thus a sober and faithful person who knows the religious principle is temporarily purified of all sins performed with his body, words, and mind." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also recommended,

*yuktāhāra*-vihārasya

*yukta*-ceṣṭasya karmaṇā

*yukta*-svapnā..., yukta

*yogo bhavati duḥkha*-hā



*In this way, if we practice yoga, bhakti*-yoga, then gradually we are elevated to the perfectional stage.



*Now, one may say that "If I give up all these thing which is habituated to me, there will be some painful condition." So therefore Bhagavad-gītā has recommended to tolerate. Mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya. We have to tolerate. This is called tapasya. Even though it is painful for me*-it is not at all painful, but those who are trying to practice in the beginning, it may be painful-so Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, is advising that even it is painful, you must do it and tolerate it. So mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. The example is given just like we suffer sometimes in scorching heat and very pinching or chilly cold. But we tolerate and do our business. Sometimes to cure our disease, say, for example, fever, we have to swallow very bitter quinine pills. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, considering the people in general of this age, Kali-yuga, He knew that people will not be able to even tolerate such little pain for advancing in spiritual life. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore recommended that,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



It is very difficult in this age to follow the principles of brahmācārya, as it is recommended, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena vā [SB 6.1.13]. (to translator:) Yes, go on. Therefore Nārada Muni also... Śukadeva Gosvāmī also advising that "If one is unable to follow the regulative principles, then," he says,



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



The translation is, "Only a rare person who has adopted complete unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa can uproot the weeds of sinful action with no possibility that they will revive." Kevalayā bhaktyā. "Simply... He can do the simply by discharging devotional service, just as the sun can immediately dissipate fog by its rays." So by other processes temporarily it can be ceased, but actually from the root of the cause it is not possible to get it out.



In the previous verse Śukadeva Gosvāmī gave the example that "The dried leaves of creepers beneath a bamboo tree may be completely burned to ashes by a fire, although the creepers may sprout again because the root is still in the ground." You have seen practically. On the field the grass is dried up, and sometimes fire is set and it becomes all burned into ashes. But as soon as there is rainy season, again they sprout and become green. The idea is that you may perform the religious, ritualistic ceremonies, but if you heart is not cleansed, simply by performing these ritualistic ceremonies you'll not be purified. So we have got two desires: pious desire or impious desires. So either you become desirous of doing pious thing or you desirous of doing impious things, the sufferings of this material world will continue.

*It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*So by pious activities you can be elevated to the higher planetary system in the heavenly planet, but that does not mean completion of your suffering of the material world. Kṛṣṇa has said, therefore, ābrahma*-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even you are promoted to the Brahmaloka, where the standard of living, duration of life, is very, very big, still, you cannot avoid there these material pains and pleasure, because after finishing your resultant action of pious activities you'll come..., you'll have to come back again in this lower planetary system. Kṣīṇe puṇye puṇar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. After the resultant action of pious activity is finished, you are again dragged within this lower planetary system. Therefore, unless you take to the devotional path, bhakti, because Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55], if you want to understand God, Kṛṣṇa, then you have to take the only path, bhaktyā, bhakti, or devotional service.



*So we shall discuss further tomorrow about this bhakti*-yoga and today let us end here. Thank you very much. (end)



760510SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.9

-

Honolulu, May 10, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Chapter One, text number nine. (devotees repeat:)



*śrī*-rājovāca

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



*Śrī*-rājovāca, the king, Parīkṣit Mahārāja said. Parīkṣit Mahārāja is the disciple and Śukadeva Gosvāmī is the spiritual master. So the spiritual master is speaking and the disciple is hearing, but in the meantime making some question. That is the way of understanding.



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānam

jñāninas tattva darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*The injunction is that tad viddhi, if you want to understand transcendental subject matter, not material, spiritual... Spiritual is completely unknown to us because we do not know what is spiritual. We are identifying with this body. You do not know even that "I am spirit soul." So where is the possibility of spiritual understanding? One cannot see himself, what he is. He is thinking, "I am this body," exactly like the dog. The dog is thinking, "I am dog." So if I think, "I am American," "I am Indian," where is the difference? There is no difference. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. If one thinks that "I am this body," then he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ. The animals, they also think like that, "I am this body."



*So when one understands that "I am not this body. I'm extra..." That can be understood very easily if we analyze ourselves. I have several times said, beginning from your breathing, you analyze. Take breathing. They say breathing is the life. As soon as the breathing is stopped, no more life. So does it mean that breathing is life? No. Analyze. What is this breathing? It is air. So you can get so much air and put it into a machine, just like, what is called, bellow, and pump it through the nose. It is possible to get life? No. In this way, item by item, you analyze this body. Now you are advanced in laboratory analyzing. Take this breathing, take this blood, take this skin, take this bone. So many things are there, ingredients. Analyze each one of them. Will you find life? Therefore common sense, that this is not life... Life is beyond this, beyond this material. So so-called rascals, they think that this is body, this is life, combination. There are many theories. One of the theories is the combination of this matter, these bones, this blood, this skin, the veins, the stool, the urine, so many things*-that combination makes the life. And why don't you put... All these things are available. Why don't you put together and bring life? "That we shall do in future." Just see. What is this proposal? Therefore we are so fools and rascals that we do not know what is spirit, life, spirit. Still, we are passing as big scientist and philosopher, all rascals. Anyone who is thinking, "I am this body," he's a rascal. He's an animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. This is Bhāgavata, practical analysis.

*So here the Bhāgavata*-kathā, that is transcendental knowledge. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja has approached the right person, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Why? Because he is the disciple and son of Vyāsadeva. So this is paramparā. One should learn from the right person, that is perfect knowledge. We are sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because to receive perfect knowledge. If we change, if we become so rascal that "What has spoken in the Vedic literature, there is beyond, something," then we are rascal. There is no beyond. This is perfect knowledge. So how to take perfect knowledge? Tad viddhi. First of all you try to learn. Tad viddhi. How to learn? Where to learn? Praṇipātena, fully surrendered. If you find somebody that he is somebody important where you can surrender fully, from him... Tad viddhi praṇipāta... This is. Our process of Vedic knowledge is how to surrender, not that I hear and I reject it. That is not the way. That is another rascaldom. First of all find out the person where you can surrender.

*Surrender means you first of all be convinced that "Here is a person who can give me actual knowledge." Therefore before selecting guru one has to convince himself that "The person whom I am going to accept as guru, whether he actually can give me the knowledge?" That is wanted. Therefore before making guru, the system is, for one year the prospective disciple should hear from the person and then decide. And similarly, the guru also see a person who is actually submissive or not. That is Vaiṣṇava injunction, Hari*-bhakti-vilāsa, not that to make a guru as a fashion. No. Not do. Don't keep a guru, order-supplying guru. No. Just like if somebody keeps a dog and the master orders him, "Do this," and he does, fashion. No. It is not fashion. You must approach guru who..., where you can surrender. Otherwise don't make guru. And the guru also should not accept such rascal as guru. First of all the thing is surrender. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. The first necessity is that you surrender. So here you have seen, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, although the emperor of the world, he is taking lesson from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is seated on the throne and he is seated on the ground, submissive. So does it mean that "I shall become submissive, and whatever my guru will say, I will have to accept?" No. Paripraśnena. Tad viddhi. Here is the paripraśna. Śrī-rāja uvāca. Ask him. That is intelligent. Intelligently serve. First of all we must... It is not that he is checking the guru, "How my guru is learned?" No. The submission is there. But when the guru says something, he may not understand. That concession is given, paripraśna. You inquire.

So Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "You have to atone for your sinful activities before your death; otherwise you will suffer in the next life." Rājovāca. Rājovāca, rāja, the king, he was little doubtful about this atonement. Atonement. So his inquiry...

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



"Sir, you have spoken about atonement, but they are doing atonement. Every moment they are suffering, but still, again he is committing the sinful activities. So what is the use of this atonement?" Just like in the Christian church they go to confess every weekly, "Sir, I have done it." "All right, give some fine." And again, next week, again, the same thing going on. So this is very intelligent question. The atonement is there in every religion. In the Vedic process there is atonement, but what is the use of this atonement if he does not cease committing the same sinful activity? Just like practically we see a thief. So he knows that "I am committing theft. I shall be punished if I am arrested." He knows it; otherwise why he goes silently at night and break? He knows it well that "If I am arrested I will be punished."



*So śrutābhyām. Śruta means... Just like we are hearing the śāstra, so he has heard it from the lawbooks that if one commits theft he'll be punished. And he has seen also that a person who has committed theft, he is arrested by the police, so he was being taken to the prison house. So knowledge is acquired from two sources, by direct perception and by hearing. Just like we are hearing Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. This is knowledge also. And when you see there are three kinds of receiving knowledge... One is śruti. Śruti means hearing. So our Vedic process is that we hear the Vedic information, and we become perfect, śruti. And somebody challenges that "Why shall I believe in the Vedas? I must see." But everything is not possible to see. For example somebody, the mother said to the son, "Here is your father." So you have to believe your mother; otherwise how you can see your father? It is not possible. If you want to see to take the proof, "Whether this gentleman is my father," that is not possible. Because he became your father before your birth, how you can see? This is the way. You have to accept authority. So things which are beyond our perception we have to accept authority. Therefore the Vedic process is, if the world perfect order is there in the Vedas... Not if; anything which is in the Vedas, that is perfect. We have to accept. Accept. This is the way, Vedic, śruti.

So dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām. Śruta means hearing, knowledge... The same thing... The person, the thief, he has seen and he has heard. Dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām yat pāpam [SB 6.1.9]. He knows what is sinful activities. Jānann apy. He knows this is... Jānann apy ātmano 'hitam. "This kind of activity is injurious to my person." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ: "Again he commits the same thing." He knows. Karoti vivaśaḥ prāyaścittam atho katham: "Then what is the value of that? If he cannot stop his sinful activity, then what is the meaning of this prāyaścittam?" So a professional thief, he has gone to the prison several times. He has been punished. Still, he commits the same thing, again goes to the jail. A patient, he has suffered from the disease on account of certain bad habits and he has gone to the doctor. He has paid much money and suffered injection, operation, and still he is doing that. Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja said, "What is the value of this prāyaścitta?" Prāyaścitta, kind of punishment.

So this is very important question. The world, whole world nowadays... I say sometimes that in the airport it is proved that... [break] ...punishment the practice of committing criminal activities is going on. This is very intelligent question, and Parīkṣit Mahārāja will reply... Śukadeva Gosvāmī will reply. But this is student. Just see how intelligent question is put. The Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that for any sinful action one has to atone. So immediately catches the word, this is intelligent disciple, that "What is the value of this atonement? If he cannot correct himself to commit the sinful activity, then what is the value of atonement?" This is very nice question. We shall discuss tomorrow.

Thank you very much. (end)



710724SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.8-13

-

New York, July 24, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired from Sūta Gosvāmī, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, how the people in general, rotting in hellish life, could be saved. This is the desire of a Vaiṣṇava. Others, they do not care whether one is suffering or enjoying. But a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord, he always thinks of the fallen condition of general people. Just like in Christian philosophy they believe that Lord Jesus Christ suffered to be crucified by assimilating all the sinful activities of the people. Yes. A devotee of Lord thinks like that. Similar devotee was Vāsudeva Datta, Lord Caitanya's... He requested the Lord that "You have come. Kindly deliver all these people now present on this earth, and take them to Vaikuṇṭha. And if You think that they are so sinful that they cannot be delivered, then please transfer all their sins unto me. I shall suffer. You take them." This is Vaiṣṇava: "So for all their sins, I shall suffer. You take them." This philosophy is also expressed in Bible, Lord Jesus Christ, that he agreed to suffer himself for the sins of all the people. But that does not mean that Jesus Christ or Vāsudeva Datta should make a contract for ourself and we shall go on committing sins. This is most heinous proposal. A Vaiṣṇava and a devotee suffers for all humanity, human race. But that does not mean that human race, or the particular followers should take advantage of this facility and go on committing sins. That is not a good proposal. They should take rather seriously, that "Lord Jesus Christ or Vāsudeva Datta who has suffered for us so much, we shall stop committing sins now." That is sane proposal. Otherwise, if I think, "Well, there is Vāsudeva Datta and Lord Jesus Christ. He will suffer for us and let us go on merry*-making. That's all." A most heinous life.



*Anyway, everyone is responsible for his sinful activities. That's a fact. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that tasmāt, "Therefore," puraiva āśu iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau, "so long you are in this body, in order to get yourself free from all the reaction of sinful activities, you should atone." Yateta mṛtyor avipadyata, avipadyatātmanā, doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru-lāghavaṁ yathā bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit [SB 6.1.8]. According to the sinful activities, one should accept the prescription and program of atonement exactly like a..., a physician prescribes different type of medicines according to the gravity of the disease. The other day I was explaining. Just like the state law is that if you commit a murder, if you kill your fellow man, then you have to atone that sinful activity by being killed, by offering your life. That's a fact. Everyone knows it. You cannot escape. If you have killed one man... Of course, not man; *if you kill even an ant, you are responsible for that, what to speak of man. Because that distinction is imperfect because this is man*-made law. Man-made law, they're taking consideration of the man being killed. Another, the killer, must be killed. Why not an animal? The animal also a living entity. The man is also living entity. So if you have law that if a man kills one man he must be killed, why not if a man kills an animal he should be killed also? What is the reason? This is man-made law, defective. But there cannot be defect in God-made laws. God-made law, if you kill an animal, you are equally punishable as you kill a man. That is God's law. There is no excuse that he..., when you kill a man you are punishable, but when you kill an animal you are not punishable. This is concoction. This is not perfect law. Perfect law. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ prescribes in the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not kill." That is perfect law. Not that you shall discriminate that "I shall not kill man, but I shall kill animals." This is cheating one's self. The God laws will not excuse.

*Therefore there are different atonements. According to Vedic law, if one cow dies while he's locked up on the neck... Because the cow is on the safe.(?) Somehow or other, it dies and the rope is round the neck, the proprietor of the cow has to make some atonement. Because it is to be supposed that the cow has died on account of being locked up with the rope, there is atonement. Now if you are willingly killing cows and so many animals, so how much we are being responsible? Therefore at the present moment there is war, and the human society becomes subjected to be killed in mass massacre-the nature's law. You cannot stop war and go on killing animals. That is not possible. There will be so many accidents for killing. The wholesale kill. When Kṛṣṇa kills, He kills wholesale. When I kill*-one after another. But when Kṛṣṇa kills, they assemble all the killers and kill. Therefore there is atonement in the śāstras. Just like in your Bible also there is atonement, confession, paying some fine. But after performing atonement, why people commits the same sin again? That is to be understood.

So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is very intelligent. He's Vaiṣṇava. He therefore inquires from Śukadeva Gosvāmī that,

rājovāca

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]



*A man... Suppose a man... Of course, if..., if he commits murder, he's killed and gone. That's another thing. The, the Śukadeva Gosvāmī's proposal was that tasmāt puraiva āśu iha pāpa*-niṣkṛtau yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā. "Before your death, next death comes, you should perform atonement so that you may not carry the sinful activities to suffer next life." If I do not commit, perform atonement for the commit, for the sinful activities, then nature will not excuse me. You'll have to take the effect of it and suffer in the next life. The law... As I explained the other day, that a murderer should be killed, that is mercy upon him. The, when the king orders... It is very old law. It is not new law, "Life for life." So that, when the king awards, or the judge, high-court judge, that "This man must be hanged," the judge is not the enemy of that man, but, according to law, in order to save him from further trouble in the next life, this prescription of hanging is there. The..., exactly like that: according to the disease, the prescription of medicine is there. Similarly, according to the gravity of the sinful activity, the atonement is there. If one has killed a man, he should be should be hanged-according to the gravity of his sin. So that is showing mercy upon him. But, if he's not killed, then he'll be killed in so many ways. He'll be... Suppose something, some animal, and this man who has killed. He will take another birth and he will slaughter him. There are so many subtle laws. Māṁsa. The word māṁsa, Sanskrit. Mām means "me," and sa means "he." "As I am eating him just now, he will eat me next life." That is called māṁsa. Māṁsa khādati. This is the definition of māṁsa, or flesh. Māṁsa khādati. "As I am eating, enjoying now, palate, eating some animal, so he'll also eat me next life." This is called karma-bandhana. Karma-bandhana means being locked up in one's material activities. Yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. Yajña, Viṣṇu..., if you act for Kṛṣṇa, beyond this, whatever you act, you'll be under bondage. Just like I'm killing some animal, eating, enjoying, so it is karma-bandhana. I am being locked up with my action so that I shall become again a cow or goat, and this man, this cow and goat will become man, and he will kill me and eat. You believe or not believe-that's a different thing. But these are the Vedic statement. And, practically, we are seeing that life for life. Why? Unless there is some meaning, why this punishment is there? Life for life.



So Sūta Go..., Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that we should atone immediately, so long this body's there. Otherwise, we'll have to carry the effect and suffer next life. Unfortunately, at the present moment, people are educated in such a way that they do not believe in next life. They are so befooled. The education means to make people befooled. He has no knowledge actually. This is the education. The more you are educated, you don't believe in God, you don't believe in God's law. You don't believe your next life. You don't believe in sinful and pious activities. You become animal. That's all. More or less, you become animal. The modern education is like that, preparing so many animals. Therefore you don't mind if I tell you frankly that in spite of so many education and universities arrangement in your country, so much nice arrangement, you're producing hippies. Because that is no education. If the... A human being does not know what I am... I am this body? If this education is there, then he's no better than an ass. The ass also thinks that "I'm this body." The cow also thinks that "I'm this body." The dog also thinks that "I am this body." So if a human being thinks like that, cats, dogs and..., then what is the difference?

*Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. The śāstra says one who has accepted this body, which is made of three elements... According to Āyurveda, this body's made of three elements: kapha, pitta, vāyu-mucus, bile and air. Development. There is great machinery within this body. You are taking food; *you are transforming into liquid. Whatever you can absorb, that goes to become blood. And what you cannot absorb, that becomes urine. It comes out. Therefore in old age, or those who are diseased, they cannot absorb. They pass more urine. Therefore they become lean and thin, weak. They cannot make blood. So many machinery work is going on. And when that secretion comes to the heart, it turns into blood. Then the blood is distributed by air. It becomes solidified. It becomes flesh, it becomes muscle, it becomes bone. So many things are going on. But what we know? We say that "It is my body." What do you know about your body? Still he says that "I am God." He does not know what is going within his body, and still he's supposed to be God. So yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. The, this bag of stool, urine, blood, bones, if one takes it that intelligence comes out of this stool, urines, and blood, and bone, then he's a fool. Can you create intelligence by taking stool and urine and bones and blood and mix it in laboratory, make some intelligence? Is it possible? But they're thinking like that. "I am this body."

Therefore śāstra says,

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Anyone who has accepted this body as self and the bodily production or bodily relationship-"Wife, children, family, they are my own men..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. Kalatra means wife. Kalatra ādi. Ādi means beginning. Because I am alone. As soon as I get, accept a wife, immediately there are children and then..., and children. Then expansion. So kalatra ādi. Strī. Strī means "which expands." So kalatrādiṣu, beginning from wife and other expansions, that is mine. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Bhauma means the land, the land of birth. That is ijya-dhīḥ, worshipable. People are giving life for the land wherein he's born. But he does not know that he's neither this land, nor this body, nor this wife, nor these children, nor this country, nor this society. He's spirit soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is realization of knowledge. When he comes to this knowledge, then he becomes happy.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



When one comes to understand that "I'm spirit soul," ahaṁ brahma, "I'm not this matter," so immediately he becomes jolly, prasannātmā. And what is the sign of jolliness? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any hankering, no more any lamentation. Within this world, everyone is subjected to these categories of life. We are lamenting for the loss and we are hankering for some gain. But real gain is to understand oneself, what I am.



So, so long we have got this bodily concept of life, so long we have to abide by the laws of material nature, by the laws of the state, or any other laws. Because this body is conditional. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting has got a different body. Because everyone is under different condition, varieties, varieties of condition. Therefore I'm responsible. If I do not atone for the sinful activities I'm doing within this body, then I have to suffer in my next body because I'll get another body according to my karma. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Kalevaram means this body. That is a nature's law. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommended that considering the gravity of your sinful life, you should undergo a type of atonement. They are prescribed in the śāstras. You have to do that. Otherwise, there is no rescue. Exactly like that, if you have committed murder, if you become killed here, then your sinful activities is neutralized. Otherwise, you'll have to suffer next life. So when a king orders a subject, or the state orders that "This man should be hanged," it is not cruelty to him. It is mercy. They do not know. It is a mercy. Otherwise why... Every state, anywhere you go, the law is there, "Life for life."

So atonement must be done. But King Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he's very intelligent. He says, "All right, Sir, there is atonement. By performing some type of atonement I become free from the sinful activities." Suppose a man, he has committed murder and he's killed. So the sinful reaction of his committing a murder is neutralized. But it does not mean that next time, next life he'll not again kill another man. That is not guaranteed. Exactly like that, you are diseased, the physician gives you medicine, you are cured. But it is not guarantee that you'll not be attacked again by that type of disease. That is not guarantee. One man is suffering from venereal disease, and it is painful. Doctor gives some painful injection. Some way or other, he's cured, but again he's attacked with venereal disease, again comes to the doctor. There are many instances like that. A man has committed theft and he was punished. He was taken to the government custody and he was punished for six months or one year. And comes back. Again he commits the theft. Why? This is intelligent question. So, so Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquires from Śukadeva that 'Atonement, that's all right. You are prescribing atonement. That is all right, to counteract the sinful activities. But why a man commits again the same sinful activities? What is the remedy for that?"

This is intelligent question. He says: dṛṣṭvā, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpam [SB 6.1.9]. Dṛṣṭa means just like one man sees this man has committed murder and he's hanged. Everyone sees. And in the lawbook it is said that if a man commits murder he'll be hanged. So śruta means we have heard it from authoritative sources; *lawbook is authoritative source. Just like śāstra. Śāstra and lawbook is the same. Śāstra means that which controls. Śās*-dhātu. Śāstra, śastra, śāsana, śiṣya comes from the same root. Śiṣya. Śiṣya also comes from the same root. Śiṣya means one agrees voluntarily to be governed by the spiritual master. He's called śiṣya. And śāsana, the government. So śāstra means that regulates our daily activities. So here it is called... Śāstra is learned by hearing, not by licking, not by seeing. Just like here is a śāstra, bhagavat-śāstra. You cannot learn it by seeing or by touching or... You have to learn it by hearing. Śās... This is called śruta. Therefore Vedas are called Śrutis. Śruti. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. So śruta, śruta means hearing from authoritative sources, either you take a scripture or lawbook. So one knows that in every śāstra, every scripture, every lawbook, man is warned: "Don't commit theft; you'll be punished. Don't tell lie; you'll be punished. Don't do this; you'll be punished. Don't kill. Thou shalt not kill. Otherwise, you'll be punished." But nobody's caring. Why? What is the remedy for that? Everything is there. Dṛṣṭa, practical experience, and śruta,... Śruta means heard also from authoritative sources. So he says, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpam [SB 6.1.9]. Everyone knows it, jānan, everyone knows that this is pāpa, this is sinful activity. Everyone knows. Nobody can say that "I do not know that is sinful activities." Who does not know that stealing is sinful, committing murder is sinful, or so many other things? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquires that dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ jānann apy ātmano 'hitam [SB 6.1.9]. "And he knows that 'It is not good for me; if I steal I'll be arrested, I'll be punished, I'll be put into jail. That is not a very comfortable life.' He knows that." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ. "But he commits again and again, vivaśaḥ, as if forced by something, forced by something." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ prāyaścittam atho katham [SB 6.1.9].

So Parīkṣit Mahārāja immediately says, "What is the value of this atonement? If he is not corrected, checked that he should not commit such sin any more, then what is the value of prāyaścitta, katham? 'I have committed some sin. I do some atonement. Again I commit. Again I atone. I again I commit. I confess, and again I do the same thing.' So what is the use of such atonement?" His question is... Another question:

kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārthaṁ

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]



*For the time being, when he's punished, he thinks, "I shall not commit what mistake I did." But as soon as he's out of the danger, he commits again. So kvacin nivartate abhadrāt. Nivartate means he refrains, abhadrāt, from abominable activities. Kvacic carati tat punaḥ. And again sometimes he commits the same thing. Punaḥ. Therefore habit is second nature. It is very difficult. The example that yasya hi yaḥ svabhāvasya tasya sa duratikramaḥ.(?) Svabhāva, one who has his habit, one who is habituated to do something, it is very difficult for him to give it up. The example is given: sva yadi kriyate rāja saḥ kiṁ na so uparhanam.(?) You can keep one dog in a royal position, but as soon as it will see one shoe there, immediately bite*-because he's a dog. The doggish quality's there. You may put him on the throne; *that's doesn't matter. But the doggish quality, you cannot change. Similarly this svabhāva. Svabhāva means the material nature, material nature. We have acquired so many material nature, by association of the three modes of material nature, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So our habits are formed on account of our association with the three different qualities of material nature. But if we can disassociate ourself from the three modes of material nature, then our real nature, means spiritual nature, becomes invoked. That is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there is no chance of your associating with the three material modes of nature. That is the secret. Therefore you'll find our students, those who are habituated to so many bad things previously, they are able to stay in a platform where there is no such contamination.



*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such nice medicine. Unless you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your habits, formed by the association with the three modes of material nature, will continue. You cannot check it. They... Therefore, if you want to save yourself from this repetition of different types of birth and death, then you must come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the medicine. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate: [Bg. 14.26] "Anyone who is engaged in My transcendental loving service, bhakti-yoga, the devotional yoga..." Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān: [Bg. 14.26] "He can transcend the influence of these all these three qualities." Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. "Immediately he's situated on the Brahman platform." So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, without recommending this atonement or that atonement, which will not check him... You can go on, make many experiment of atonement, but the disease of the heart will remain. And you'll commit again sin. But as soon as you come to the Kṛṣṇa platform, then you become free from the contamination. This is the advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you don't come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you may be relieved for the time being from the reaction of sinful activities, but you'll again commit.

*So Parīkṣit Mahārāja says, "This kind of committing sin and again become relieved by atone, atonement, repetition, it is just like kuñjara-śaucavat." He's giving very nice example. Kvacin nivartate abhadrāt kvacic carati tat punaḥ, prāyaścittam atho 'pārtham [SB 6.1.10]. "Therefore this atonement, to me, is nothing but waste of time." How it is waste of...? Kuñjara-śaucavat. The example, kuñjara means elephant. The elephant cleanses the body very nicely in the water, in the lake, or some water, reservoir, but as soon as comes on the shore takes some dust and overthrows. Those who have seen, that have got experience*-immediately the whole body becomes dirty. Immediately taking... Just like we, human beings, we go to the bathroom and cleanse ourself with soap and water, and then we feel comfortable. We do not again take some dirty things and throw over it. But the elephant, animal, does it. These are our examples. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "You may become cleansed by the atonement process, or you may be relieved from the disease by taking some medicine, but if again you commit, then what is the use of this treatment or use of this atonement?"

*So this is the second question of Parīkṣit Mahārāja to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, very important question, that how one can ultimately become free from all contamination of these material modes of nature? Otherwise, what is the use of atonement? So that is-I've told you in summary*-that unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no possibility of being freed from this repetition of committing sins and atonement. So, so Śukadeva Gosvāmī is replying:

*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iṣyate

*avidvad*-adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam

[SB 6.1.11]



nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo 'bhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāya kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



So we shall discuss this prescription tomorrow again. It is a long discussion. Thank you very much. What is that?



Devotee: He said that he'd like to submit some questions.



Nārāyaṇa: Prabhupāda..., question? (pause) Could you elaborate on the position of the person who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and has committed all these sinful activities in this lifetime. For instance, let's say a person has been in the, involved in the Vietnam War due to his relation with the material world and has been drawn into this activity. And now he's in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How is he then relieved of the law of karma for his activity?



*Prabhupāda: You come and live with us. That's all. Is it very difficult? Our students, they are living with us. You simply come and live with us*-you are free from all karma. Is it difficult? Then do that. We shall give you food, we shall give you shelter, we shall give you nice philosophy. If you want to marry, we shall give you good wife. What you want more? So come and live with us. That's all. That I've already explained: māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. We employ you immediately in the devotional service of Lord, and you become free. Kṛṣṇa says, not that we have concocted this idea. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who's engaged in My devotional service, without any hypocrisy, avyabhicāreṇa, then immediately he's freed, immediately." And in another place Kṛṣṇa says,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



So this assurance is there. You believe it and see, practically. You hear and you see practically, what is being done. What is the difficulty? So increase the volume of the society. The whole world will be happy. That's a fact. That's all right. Join us. Try to understand the philosophy, and preach, make others happy. Kṛṣṇa will be pleased upon you. Then your life is successful. (end)





750623SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.10

-

Los Angeles, June 23, 1975



Santoṣa: "Sometimes one who is very alert not to commit sinful acts is victimized by sinful life again. If one atones for the sins after committing them but then repeatedly commits the same sins, his atonement is a useless process. Indeed, it is like the bathing of an elephant, for the elephant fully cleanses itself but then throws dust all over its head and body as soon as it returns to the land."



Prabhupāda:



kvacin nivartate' bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārthaṁ

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]



*Parīkṣit Mahārāja is devotee. He knows what are these material activities. Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. This word is used here, punaḥ. Punaḥ means "again and again." Carvita*-carvaṇānām.



matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*This was the statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, that gṛha-vratānām... Those who have concluded that "We shall live in this material world and become happy here by adjustment," they are called gṛha-vratānām. Or those who have concluded that "We shall live very happily in family life," and trying to be happy, and failure, and again trying, and again trying... This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Just like a father engages his son in the same way, the same family life, same business life, same working day and night. But he does not think that "I was a married man. I got children. I have got business. I have got car. Whether I have become happy?" That he does not conclude, that "Again I am engaging my son in the same business? So why shall I be unhappy if my son has joined the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?" No. He wants, "Please come home and again be doing the same thing. Which I have done and I am frustrated, you do the same thing and be frustrated." (laughter) This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Nobody will advise. His son will become hippie*-he will tolerate: "This is modern fashion." And if he joins Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is unhappy, because he wants that "My son also be doing the same thing." That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. The world is going like that. They are chewing the chewed. We are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that "What you will gain by this material way of life? Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa, and then you will get the greatest benefit." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. The all troubles which we are suffering, that is due to our accepting this material body. That they do not know. They do not know except this material body anything. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].



So it is Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He is very intelligent devotee. He is criticizing this atonement process-"Whole week I have done all sinful activities, and on Sunday I go to church and pay some fine, and again, from Monday, I begin my business." Punaḥ punaḥ, again and again. So this business will not help us, because the..., I may commit some sinful activities, and repenting, I pay some fine or some prāyaścitta, but my heart is not cleansed. That is required. The heart is filled up with all dirty things. What it will give me benefit if formally I give some fine as atonement? Parīkṣit Mahārāja is rejecting this process, "This will not help." And he has given very good example: kuñjara-śaucavat. From nature we can study so many things, very instructive. Kṛṣṇa has made the nature in such a way that any intelligent man, if he studies simply the nature, without going into school or college he becomes a very learned man, if he has got the capacity to study nature. So such nature, a natural instance, example, is cited: kuñjara-śaucavat. Kuñjara means elephant. Elephant is a very big animal, and it takes bath in the lake, very nicely washes the body. Then, as soon as he comes on the bank, he immediately takes some dust and throw it over the body. Those who have seen the elephants... This is their nature.

*So these people may be very big men, very big animal, but their intelligence is lacking. The intelligence is that "Why I am put into miserable condition of life?" That is intelligence. That intelligence was found in the life of Sanātana Gosvāmī. When he first met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his spiritual master, the first question was that "I am considered as very learned scholar and very good administrator." Grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita, satya kori māni. "And some, my ignorant friends, they call me I am very big man, very learned man." But āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: "Unfortunately, I do not know how to get out of this material condition of life. I do not know." So that is the position, everyone. We are big, big scientist, big, big philosophers, big, big statesmen, politician, but I do not know why I am forced to die. Big, big scientists, they are discovering so many things, but he cannot discover something which will stop his death. That is not possible. So punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. We may attempt so many things, but if we do not know how to stop the mental activities which is prone to commit sinful activities That is our first business. That cannot be done by any other means except Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Except Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not possible to control the mind. If you can Now, it is the business of everyone If he wants to be the first-class man in the society, brāhmaṇa, the qualification is śamo damas satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣva. These are the brāhmaṇa Śamaḥ means controlling the mind. Even Arjuna, he said to Kṛṣṇa when Kṛṣṇa was teaching him the process of mystic yoga and control the mind Five thousand years ago Arjuna A person like Arjuna is not ordinary person. He is talking with Kṛṣṇa. So still he says, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, this is not possible for me. I am a family man and a politician. I cannot control my mind. It is not possible." So nowadays, after five thousand years when Arjuna thought himself incapable of controlling the mind by the so-called yogic process, how it is possible now-this world has so much deteriorated*-to practice this meditation and yoga process and control the mind? It is impossible. That is not possible. It is simply humbug. You have to

*Therefore śāstra gives us the instruction, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. Kṛte mean in the Satya*-yuga, when man used to live for one hundred thousands of years. Just like Valmiki Muni, he underwent meditation for sixty thousands of years, and he attained success. So it was possible, kṛte, in the Satya-yuga. Satya-yuga was the first, beginning of millennium. Satya-yuga exists for eighteen hundred thousand years, and then Treta-yuga, for twelve hundred thousand years, then Dvāpara-yuga, eight hundred thousands of years. Now it is Kali-yuga, it is four hundred thousands of years. And the duration of life in Satya-yuga was hundred thousands of years, and in the Treta-yuga it was one thousands of years. No? Ten thousands of years. And in the Dvāpara-yuga one thousand years. And now it is one hundred. That is also not all. So this age is not suitable for yogic meditation. That is not possible. Therefore śāstra gives us instruction that "Self-realization which was possible in the Satya-yuga by meditation, the same thing was made possible in the Treta-yuga," kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ, "by performing big, big sacrifices." That is Treta-yuga. And Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ, dvāpare paricaryāyām: "In Dvāpara-yuga by worshiping the Deity." Therefore in India you will find so many temples, because this is coming from Dvāpara-yuga.

*So kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. In this age, Kali-yuga, the age of quarrel and fight and misunderstanding-this is called Kali-yuga*-in this age this is the only means: hari-kīrtanāt. The saṅkīrtana movement is hari-kīrtana. Hari-kīrtana... Kīrtana means chanting about the glorification of the Lord, hari-kīrtana. And this is also confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

*kaler doṣa*-nidhe rājan

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

*mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

[SB 12.3.51]



*So this is recommended, and similarly, about Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, there is statement in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ...



*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadaṁ

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*Therefore our first duty is to worship Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We keep the Deity. In the first we offer our obeisances to Caitanya Mahāprabhu along with His associate, and then, Guru-Gaurāṅga, then we offer Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa or Jagannātha. So because this is the process of Kali-yuga, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ, if you perform this saṅkīrtana, simply this process, as many times as possible before Lord Caitanya, then your success is guaranteed. You don't require anything else. This is recommended: yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ.



*So those who are intelligent, they catch up this easy method of self*-realization. The more you chant, then the cleansing process of the heart goes on very nicely. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This is recommended. Ceto-darp... This is the first, because our spiritual life does not begin unless ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, unless the mirror of the heart is cleansed. But this is the easiest process. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra in ecstasy, the first benefit will be that your heart will be cleansed. Then you can see what is your position, what you are, what is your business. If your heart is unclean, then... So that uncleanliness of heart cannot be cleansed by this process, atonement. That is not possible. Therefore... Parīkṣit Mahārāja is very intelligent. He said, prāyaścittam atho apārtham. Apa, apa means "negative," and artha means "meaning." "It has no meaning." He immediately rejects the prāyaścittam apārtham. "What benefit will be there? He remains unclean. He does not cleanse his heart, core of heart." In the core of heart he has got all the dirty things: "How I shall cheat, how I shall make black market, how I shall enjoy senses, how I will go to prostitute and drink." These things are packed up. So simply by going to the temple or to the church and make some atonement, it will not benefit. One has to take seriously to this method, saṅkīrtanam. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-davāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The first installment is that you cleanse your heart. The next installment is bhava-mahā-davāgni-nirvāpaṇam. If your heart is cleansed, then you can understand what is your position in this material world. And with a dirty heart, you cannot understand. If your heart is clean, then you can understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul. So what I am doing really for me? I am spirit soul. I am not this body. I am soaping over this body, but as I am, I am starving." This is going on. The material civilization means they are taking care of the body and no information of the soul which is within the body. This is material civilization. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not so much attention for the body, but full attention for the soul. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just opposite.

*Therefore they cannot understand this movement. It is completely spiritual movement. It is not material movement. Therefore they sometimes mistake that "Your people are weak in health. They are becoming this and that. They do not eat meat, so vitality is less." Then "We are not concerned with the vitality. We are concerned with the spiritual life." Therefore they sometimes misunderstand. So anyway, people may understand or misunderstand*-it doesn't matter. You go on with your kīrtana and make guarantee that there is no material life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760511SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.10

-

Honolulu, May 11, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, First Chapter, verse number ten. (devotees repeat)



kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārthaṁ

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]



So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he said that everyone in this material world know what is, to some extent at least, or to his capacity, knows "This is right" or "This is wrong." May not be very advanced in knowledge, but something they know, "This is right; this is wrong."



So criminality we have described. Everyone knows "This is not good," but he is punished. Again he does that. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja said, "What is the use of this atonement?" He further explains in this verse that kvacin nivartate abhadrāt. Abhadra means unclean, wrong things. Bhadra means right thing. Bhadra and abhadra. In India bhadra means gentleman and abhadra means uncivilized man. So sometimes he does like gentlemen and sometimes like foolish rascal. Kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt kvacic carati tat punaḥ [SB 6.1.10]. After coming from the prison house, jail, he decides, "No more I shall commit. I shall now become gentleman." But as soon as his friends, criminals, again mix with them, he again commits the same sinful activity. So in this condition, atonement, if he cannot change his character, so what is the use of this atonement? Prāyaścittam atho 'pārtham [SB 6.1.10]. Apārtham means useless. If he cannot change his character, change his mind, then the punishment or prāyaścittam is apārtha, useless. How useless? Manye, "I think it is as useless as kuñjara-śaucavat."

*Kuñjara means elephant. Elephants taking bath. Perhaps you have not seen. In India we had some opportunity. They wash the body very nicely, repeatedly throwing water with the trunk, and as soon as come on the shore of the tank, again take some dust and throws over the body. We have to study from nature that how is that. This rascal washed so nicely his body, and immediately, coming out of the tank, he throws dust. Śaucye manye kuñjara-śaucavat. Very appropriate. It is that hasti*-snāna. In Sanskrit it is called hasti-snāna. Snāna means bathing and hasti means elephant. So if we are not changing our character, then what is the use of advancement of knowledge, education? That I told you yesterday, that in spite of so-called advancement of education, culture, science, philosophy, the result is when you go to the airport you are proved you are a dishonest man. Everyone is checked means everyone is dishonest, it is to be supposed. Maybe some honest men, but the majority are dishonest. Even there is somebody honest he also... Gardulika pravāha(?) Majority... Nowadays it is democratic days, majority. So as this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also taken as one of the sentimental movements... It is the most scientific movement, but because there are so many gurus, rascals, they imagine something and cheat people. People want to be cheated. They take advantage. So we are also one of them, because majority is this. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." When everyone is rascal, to become intelligent is rascaldom. Otherwise you say, "I am also a rascal." Then it is all right. If you say, "No, you are rascal," then there is fight.

So this is going on. Actually it will be explained in the next verse. Parīkṣit Mahārāja puts a very intelligent question, that "What is the use of this kind of prāyaścitta, atonement? It has no use." So as the student is intelligent, the spiritual master is also gradually giving him more intelligence. First of all, for ordinary man the atonement, punishment, he proposed. But when the student, intelligent student, Mahārāja Parīkṣit said, "It is useless," then next proposal is,

*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iśyate

*avidvad*-adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam



*Avidyā. If somebody is kept into darkness, then there is no use of this punishment or prāyaścitta. So he proposes that the man in darkness should be educated. Vimarśanam. Vimarśanam means cultivation of knowledge, culture. So where is that culture? There is no culture. We propose that the beginning of culture is no illicit sex. This is the beginning. Who is accepting that? "Illicit sex? Why illicit sex? Sex is sex." No, that is the beginning of culture because in the dog society there is no marriage, and why in the human society there is marriage? They could avoid it. Nowadays they are being avoided. In the Kali*-yuga there will be no more marriage. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. It is stated. Five thousand years ago it was foretold that during Kali-yuga, svīkāram eva hi udvāhe. Just see. This is called śāstra. Five thousand years ago it was foretold that marriage means agreement. It will be in Kali-yuga. Svīkāram eva hi udvāhe. This is called śāstra. Bhūr bhaviṣyat vartamāna, everything. That is śāstra and that is perfect knowledge. And dam-patye ratir eva hi. Rati means sex satisfaction. So husband and wife means sex satisfaction. It will be the standard of man and woman's relationship. Dam-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sūtram eva hi. To become a brāhmaṇa means a thread, a two-cent worth, one thread. That's all. This is going on. These are all foretold. So that is being explained.



So,

*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iśyate

*avidvad*-adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam



*So the guru, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, has examined Parīkṣit Mahārāja, and it appears that the king has passed one phase of examination by rejecting the process of atonement. This is intelligence. lmmediately said, "Guru, what is this?" He has rejected. Rejecting the process of atonement because it involves fruitive activities, karma. Karma. I have committed some sinful activity, then other, another karma to punish me. So here it is said by... One karma cannot be nullified by another karma. Karma means activity. They are going on, passing resolution after resolution and laws after laws, but things are in the same position. They are not changing. Therefore it cannot be checked in that way. Karmaṇā karma*-nirhāra. Now Śukadeva Gosvāmī is suggesting the platform of speculative knowledge. When it has failed that a thief repeatedly committing criminal activities, repeatedly he is being punished but he is not corrected, then what is the remedy? That is vimarśanam, speculative knowledge. Progressing from karma-kāṇḍa to jñāna-kāṇḍa, he is proposing prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam: real atonement is full knowledge. One should be given knowledge. Unless one comes to the knowledge...



*So modern education there is no real knowledge. Real knowledge begins in the Bhagavad-gītā. Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, the first understanding, Arjuna was given lesson. When he was perplexed and he became a disciple of Kṛṣṇa, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "Kṛṣṇa, let us stop this friendly talking. Let us stop this friendly talking. Now I agree to become Your disciple. Now You teach me." So the first teaching was chastisment. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "You have no knowledge." Gātāsun agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ: "You are talking like a paṇḍita but you are not paṇḍita." He indirectly said, "You are a fool," because nānuśocanti, "This kind of thinking is not maintained by learned scholars." That means "You are not a learned man." That is going on at the present moment. Everyone is thinking that he is very highly elevated, learned, but he is fool number one. That is going on because there is no standard knowledge. Sanātana Gosvāmī also, when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he also said the same thing. He was in the sense. He was prime minister. He was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Urdu*-in those days Urdu because it was Muhammadan government. But he thought it wise that "They call me learned scholar, but what kind of scholar I am?" He put this question before Caitanya. Grāmya vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita satya kari māni, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nāhi jāni: "My dear Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, these common men, they say that I am M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C. and so on, so on. I am very learned scholar. But I am so big scholar that I do not know what I am and what is my aim of life. Just see." Ask any so-called scholar that "What is the aim of life?" He cannot say. The aim of life is the same like the dog: eat, drink, be merry, and enjoy, and die. That's all.

So where is education? There is no education. Real education is different, that one must know his own position and act accordingly. That you can get from Vedic knowledge.

tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet

*samit*-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



*Brahma-niṣṭham. If one has no sense to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, he is no better than the dog and cat. No credit. According to Vedic civilization anyone who is thinking, "I am this body," and doing accordingly*-for the bodily pleasure he is working so hard-so that is not knowledge. Here it is suggested that prāyaścittam vimarsanam. If you want to be saved from the tribulation offered by the material nature, then you have to very thoughtful, thinking that what is the actual position. That is the beginning of Vedānta-sūtra, that "You inquire about Brahman, the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life, don't spoil it like cats and dogs, eating, sleeping, mating and dancing. No. So, so same dancing, same eating can be utilized when it is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then he will be... Simply by dancing and chanting and taking prasādam you'll be learned scholar.



Thank you very much. (end)



710725SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.11

-

New York, July 25, 1971



Prabhupāda:



*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iṣyate

*avidvad*-adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam

[SB 6.1.11]



*The answer, Parīkṣit Mahārāja's question to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, that this atonement, once committing some sinful activity, and counteracting it by so*-called atonement, confession, has no meaning. If one is suffering from certain type of disease, goes to a doctor, physician, he gives some medicine, it is cured for the time being, and again if he's attacked with such disease and goes to the doctor, again he gives medicine, then what is the use of this business? Again and again. That is the question, very intelligent question. How to cure the disease completely?



*So this was the question of King Parīkṣit. The answer is given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī that karmaṇā karma-nirhāro na hy ātyantika iṣyate. Karma, fruitive activities, counteracting it by another activity, that is not final decision. Just like people in modern age, they are trying to have some peaceful situation in the world by the intervention of the United Nations, but they cannot stop it. Again there is war. There was First War in 1914, then they manufactured League of Nations. Perhaps you, most of you may not know. We were, at that time, boys, students, and we know about this League of Nations, how it was manufactured. Then again the Second War. And now they have manufactured United Nations. But the war is going on, Vietnam or here or there. But actual medicine is how to stop war. That cannot be done by... By one action there is war, and by another action the war is stopped for the time being. And again, when the opportunity's there, again war. So sinful activities and atonement is like that. But actual, what we want, that no suffering, no war*-that is our hankering. We want that. That is not happening.

*So the answer is given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. But that one kind of war causes some disturbances and another kind of war stops it for some time, for the time being, that is not ultimate solution of the problem. Any intelligent man can understand it. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that these things happen on account of foolishness, avidvad*-adhikāritvāt. Avidvad means without sufficient education, or without sufficient knowledge, lack of knowledge. Avidvad adhikāritvāt prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Real prāyaścitta, atonement, is knowledge. Why we are fighting? This knowledge required. Why you are fighting? Why there is miseries? This "why" question, this "why" question is in the Vedas. It is called Kena Upaniṣad, asking "Why?" Unless this question arises in a human mind, "Why?" "Why I am suffering?" that is not human life. This question must arise. "Wherefrom I have come? What is my constitutional position? Where I shall go after death? Why I am put into this miserable condition of life? Why there is birth, death, old age, disease? I do not want all of them." So that, this is called vimarśanam, jñānam, thoughtful, how to solve these questions.

Now Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, nāśnataḥ.

nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo 'bhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāya kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



If you want to stop some diseased condition of life, then you have to follow a regulative principle. Just like when you go to a doctor for curing some disease, he gives you some medicine and some direction also, that "You should not eat like this, you not sleep like this, you should do like this." Some do's and some do not's. That prescription is followed. So here, Śukadeva Gosvāmī gives this example that na aśnataḥ pathyam eva annam. Suppose if you have got indigestion. You cannot digest food very nicely. So you have to eat such things which are easily digestible, or which may not cause acidity, flatulence, air. The doctor prescribes. So if you neglect those principles, then how you can be cured? Similarly, if you want to eradicate your ignorance, how miserable conditions are arising, problems are arising, and you do not try to subside them with real knowledge, how there can be solution of the problems? Try to understand. Just like if you do not follow the program given by the physician for curing your disease, you cannot be cured. If you violate the rules given by the doctor, then how you can expect cure of your disease? Similarly, if you do not think wisely, like wise man, as they're prescribed in the Vedic knowledge, how you can stop the problems of life? That is not possible. Simply by atonement there may be temporary suppression of something, but it will arise again. The same example can be given. The whole world is trying to stop war. But by some means like League of Nation, United Nation, but it is stopped for the time being, but again, after some years, there is huge war.



*So, so Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that this material world, sinful life, we are acting in a way, we are forced to commit some sins, and you are suffering as a resultant action. This is going on. But if you want to stop this business*-one suffering and one again becomes victim-then you have to become advanced in knowledge. Karmī-jñānī. Ordinary people, they are karmīs, or fruitive actors. Fruitive actors. They're working whole day and night, and getting some result, enjoying, again suffering, again there is problem. This is going on. They are called karmīs. So this will not solve the question, problem. He suggests that you have to elevate yourself to the platform of knowledge. How it is done? That is prescribed herein. The first thing is tapasya. The first... Tapasya means you have to accept some austerity. The same example can be given that the doctor says... Suppose a diabetic patient. So doctor prohibits him that "You cannot eat. You have to starve for some days." So I do not like to starve, nobody likes to starve. But because doctor says you have to starve, if you want to cure a disease, then I have to voluntarily accept, accept starving. This is called tapasya: voluntarily accept some miserable condition of life. That is good. And human life is meant for that purpose.

*When Ṛṣabhadeva, the father of Mahārāja Bharata, after whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa The name Bhāratavarṣa is not only the name for India, but it is the name for this planet. Formerly, five thousand years ago, the whole planet was known as Bhāratavarṣa. The Vedic culture was all over the world. These Europeans and Americans, they are coming of the same stock, Indo*-Aryan stock. There is a great history behind this, how some of the kṣatriyas, they left India during the time of Paraśurāma. He declared war against the kṣatriyas and he was incarnation of God. He was killing the kṣatriyas like anything and some of the kṣatriyas fled from India and came to this part of the world. So from historical point of view you Europeans and Americans, you belong to the kṣatriya stock of old India, and somehow or other you have forgotten this Vedic culture. Originally you belonged to this Vedic culture. The Vedic culture was all over the world, even in America-different types of worship or concept of God. The Red Indians also had some religion.

*So, apart from that historical point of view, the Vedic culture prescribes tapasya. Tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accept some bodily inconvenience. That is called tapasya. There are many tapasvīs undergoing austerity. They meditate in winter in water up to..., up to the neck, standing within water, meditating. To stand within water in winter, severe cold, is not very comfortable business, but they voluntarily accept it. This is called tapasya. And summer season, they blaze fire all round and sit down in the midst and meditate. I am giving you some of the examples, how severely they accept tapasya. So tapasya is required. Without tapasya you cannot make advancement in spiritual life, or life of knowledge. If you simply give away..., in the animal propensities of life, eating, sleeping, mating and defending and don't accept the process of tapasya, then your human life is failure. You have to accept some tapasya if you want to make solution of the problems of life. Śukadeva Gosvāmī first recommends tapasya. Just like here, in our institution, whoever comes and becomes an initiated member, we first of all ask them to undergo tapasya. Tapasya. Especially in your country, it is a great tapasya to give up illicit sex life, to give up intoxication up to the point of smoking and tea drinking, and to give up meat*-eating, and to give up gambling. Although they're only four, but it is very difficult to give up these four items. Even Lord Zetland, in England, when he was asked to do this, one of my Godbrothers, Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland, he inquired from my Godbrother, "Swamiji, whether you can make us brāhmaṇa?" So he said, "Yes, why not? You have to give up these four principles of life, prohibited: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, and no meat-eating." The Lord Zetland replied "Impossible." Yes, it is impossible. Because in Europe and America, this is the way of life from the very beginning. And from India, our Indian gentlemen come here to learn this art, how to do it nicely. And they think it is advancement. India is automatically taught this tapasya by their culture, but they come here to forget that culture and accept another type of life.

But real, real fact is if you want to advance in spiritual understanding, if you want to make a solution of all the problems of your life, then you have to accept this life of austerity, tapasya. Restriction. Restriction is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Just like in our common dealings, when you drive your car, you have got some restriction. You cannot drive your car on the left side. That is offense. "Keep to the right." You cannot drive your car when there is red light, or yellow light. You have to follow the restriction. But the dog, if it keeps to the left or crosses the street when there is red light, it is not punished, because it is animal, dog. But if you violate the laws, you'll be punished. Why? That means you have got advanced consciousness. If you do not follow the rules and regulation, then you are nothing but animal. Human being, human life means voluntarily accepting the laws, the rules and regulation. That is human life. But now the propaganda is that everyone, one wants to be free, no regulative life. This is animal life. Just try to understand. The regulations, lawbooks, restrictions, they are meant for human being, not for animals. And if you want freedom from all restrictions, then you come to the animal life. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends first tapasya. If you want to stop the problems of life, then you have to accept the life of austerity, tapasya.

And what is the tapasya? That is also... Brahmacaryeṇa. Brahmacaryeṇa. Brahmacaryeṇa means restricted sex life. Real meaning is no sex life, no sex, celibacy, completely. This is tapasya. Therefore, according to Vedic culture, the first beginning of life is brahmacārī. [break] But in the brahmacārī life there is no sex life. Only in the gṛhastha life there is sex life, married life. I was reading the other day a magazine, Watch... What is that? Watchtower. So this paper was criticizing so many immoral activities in the Christian world. And one item I was surprised to read that a Christian priest has sanctioned marriage between man to man. That was written there. I do not wish to discuss all those things, but people are degrading for want of this tapasya. People are not taught how to execute tapasya life, tapasvī life. Simply by criticizing will not do. Practically you have to be trained in the life of tapasya. Then it will be effective. Just like we are doing. Here, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, in every center, everyone, at least who are living within this temple, must get up at four o'clock to perform the ārātrika. This morning I was asking somebody that if you cannot rise, then you cannot live in this temple. Because this temple is meant for tapasya, not for extravagancy. Unless you follow the life of tapasya, you cannot make progress.

*So this temple, we are inviting everyone to live here, to live with us, and practice tapasya. Then your life will be advanced. Then you'll understand what is your constitutional position, what is God, or Kṛṣṇa, what is your relationship with Him, what is the aim of life, how to execute it, how to make life successful. These things are taught here. This is called tapasya. And in the Vedas it is said that those who are executing the regulative life of tapasya, they are brāhmaṇas. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa eva brāhmaṇaḥ. Etad aviditvā yaḥ prayāti sa kṛpaṇaḥ(?). These are the Vedic injunctions. One who is dying... Everyone is dying. Nobody can live here permanently. That's a fact. But one who is dying after executing the life of tapasya, he's a brāhmaṇa. And one who is dying like cats and dogs, without any execution of tapasya, he's called kṛpaṇa. The two words are there in the Vedic literature: one is brāhmaṇa and one is kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser, and brāhmaṇa means liberal, broad*-minded. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, or one who knows the Supreme, the Absolute Truth, he's brāhmaṇa. And one who does not know, that is animal. This is the difference between animal and man. Man should be educated to understand the Absolute Truth. Therefore in the human society there is school, colleges, universities, philosophers, scientists, mathematician. Because human life is meant for knowledge. The animal life, they're not required to take education. They are simply busy with how..., with the business how to eat, how sleep, how to mate and how to defend. That's all.

So the tapasya life begins from celibacy, brahmacaryeṇa. Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends. Brahmacarya is described in the śāstras that smaraṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ keliḥ prekṣaṇaṁ guhyam āsanam(?). Sex life, smaraṇam, thinking of sex life, that is against brahmacarya. Complete celibacy means one should not think of even sex life. Smaraṇam. Or talk of sex life. Our modern literature, newspaper and everything, simply full with talks of sex life. But this is against brahmacarya life. Smaraṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ keli. And actually indulging in sex life. Prekṣaṇam: looking, overlooking a nice boy or nice girl, that is also against brahmacarya. Guhyam āsanam: whispering between girls and boys, that is also against brahmacārī. Guhyam āsanaṁ saṅkalpam. Then determination of sex life. Vyavasāya: endeavoring how to effect sex life. So when we can stop all these activities, that is real brahmacarya. It is very difficult at the present age. Etan maithunyam aṣṭāṅgaṁ pravadanti manīṣinaḥ vikārita brahmacaryam eda astanam lakṣaṇam iti(?). So brahmacarya means that you cannot think of sex life, you cannot talk of sex life, you cannot whisper about sex life, or you cannot endeavor for sex life. These eight types of activities in sex indulgence are against brahmacārī life. But here it is prescribed that if you want to make solution of the problems of life, then you adopt, you have to adopt a life of tapasya, austerity, which begins from brahmacārī.

*To summarize this brahmacarya life in this age, we have given a simple formula, that "No illicit sex." Sex is there. Sex is not bad. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi: "Sex life which is not against the religious principles of life, that is I am." Kṛṣṇa says. So dharmāviruddha, according to Vedic civilization, one should have sex indulgence only once in a month. That is the prescription. And when the wife is pregnant there is no sex life. That is dharmāviruddha. That is not against the religious principles. Even in your life, married life, if you indulge sex life more than once in a month, or in pregnancy, that is against religious principles. So Kṛṣṇa dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi: "Lust, sex indulgence, which is not against the rules of religious principles, that is I am." That means only for begetting children, nice children, so that there may not be disturbance. Unless there are nice population, children born in a systematic way, how you can expect peace in the world? That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. When there are varṇa-saṅkara the whole world becomes hell. This is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So the life of austerity begins from the life of celibacy, brahmacarya. So brahmacarya, the descriptions are given here, how you can execute brahmacārī life. You cannot think of sex life, you cannot talk of sex life, you cannot whisper about sex life. There are eight types of different regulation to stop sex life. But these things are very difficult in this age. Therefore we have simply summarized that don't have sex life beyond the married life. That is not good.

*Then how brahmacarya can be executed? That is also given here: tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena [SB 6.1.13]. Śamena means controlling the mind. The yoga system, aṣṭāṅga*-yoga system, practicing the āsana, sitting posture, breathing exercise, controlling the senses from outside engagement, pratyāhāra, these are, this yoga system is meant for controlling the mind and controlling the sense. If there is no control of mind and no control of senses, the so-called yoga practice is bogus. It has no meaning. Yoga indriya saṁyama. Yoga means to control the senses. That is the real meaning of yoga. So if one is unable to control the senses... I have seen in some yoga practice institution in New York. They are practicing some, this āsana, and just after finishing, immediately smoking. You see. This much control they learned. So these, these are all bogus. This is not yoga system. Yoga system is not so easy, especially in this age. Yoga system means to control the senses, control the mind; *and control the mind means you have to control so many things*-your eating, your sleeping, your behaving. These are prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā, how to practice the aṣṭāṅga-yoga. You have to find out a suitable place, a sacred place, a solitary place. Therefore real yogis, they used to go to Himalaya. Sometimes some young men, here, in your country, they inquire from me how to go to Himalaya, and what you'll do there, going there, Himalaya? So you are not practiced. So instead of practicing yoga in the Himalaya, you practice yoga here. We have come here to help you. Here this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there. If you are serious about practicing yoga, this, take bhakti-yoga. That will come, how it happens in the next lines.

*So this aṣṭāṅga*-yoga is not possible in this age-śamo damaḥ, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. Because nobody can properly practice the aṣṭāṅga-yoga system. Impossible. It is not only impossible now-even five thousand years ago, when Kṛṣṇa was advising about this aṣṭāṅga-yoga to Arjuna. Arjuna was not ordinary man. He was friend of Kṛṣṇa. He was a great son of a royal family. And Arjuna's name and fame, everyone knows. So he said to Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, this yoga practice is not possible to be performed by me. I am unable." So Arjuna said frankly that he was unable to practice this yoga system. And what we are, in comparison to Arjuna? So this aṣṭāṅga-yoga system is not possible at all in this age. If you are satisfied by learning some sitting posture, artificially, that may give you some chance of good exercise of the body. You can keep good health. But there is no chance of spiritual realization by aṣṭāṅga-yoga practice in this age. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says śamena. Śama means manasa-niyamam, controlling the mind. The mind's business is acception, acceptance and rejection. This is mind's business. Even one is very elevated, the mind's business is mind's business. Mind will accept something: "It is very good," and next moment it will reject. That is mind's business. But you have to fix up your mind in something which you cannot reject. That is only the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. If you fix up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then your mind cannot go elsewhere. You practice it and you'll see it. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18].

*Therefore Ambarīṣa Mahārāja fixed up his mind always... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are teaching our students, how to fix up the mind always in Kṛṣṇa, some way or other. That is the first*-class yoga system. And Kṛṣṇa also advises. [break] ...feet, and pray, bhajate. "Kṛṣṇa, I am Your eternal servant. Kindly again engage me in Your service. Somehow or other, without being engaged in Your service, I have been dragged to the service of māyā. Service I am going. I am rendering service. Because I am eternal servant, therefore my serving process is going on. But where it is going on? I am serving my lust, I am serving my anger, I am serving my greediness. So that means, in one word, I am serving my sense gratification. So kindly help me. Instead of serving my sense gratification, let me serve Your sense gratification." That is yoga. That is first-class yoga. Pray always, fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, and pray that "I am eternal servant. Now I'm engaged in the service of my sense gratification, and You please help me. I have come to my senses, to engage my(self) in Your sense gratification." The business is there, sense gratification. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness means instead of satisfying one's own senses, one should be ready to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not very difficult. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta this distinction has been clearly made, what is love and what is lust. Lust means satisfying to gratify one's personal senses. And, and love means trying to satisfy the senses of the lover. And who is the lover? Kṛṣṇa, the supreme lover. So one, one is called prema, love, and the other is called lust-although the process may appear to be the same.

*ātmendriya*-prīti-vāñchā-tāre bali 'kāma'

*kṛṣṇendriya*-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma

[Cc. Ādi 4.165]



Kāma and prema, this is the difference.



*So in order to control your mind, in order to control your senses, if you simply divert your activities for Kṛṣṇa, or you act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you become the perfect yogi, first*-class, topmost yogi. There is no comparison of this yogi. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām [Bg. 6.47]. Kṛṣṇa. Mām means Kṛṣṇa. Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. He's the highest, topmost yogi. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not any concocted idea of a bluffing movement. It is authoritative, based on Vedic authority, and Bhagavad-gītā is there, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is there, accepted by all the ācāryas. So if you kindly take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and try to accept this devotional yoga system, bhakti-yoga, bhakti-yogena sevate... Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. This bhakti-yoga... Sa guṇān samatītyaitān. He immediately transcends all the influence of the three material modes of nature. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Immediately he's on the transcendental platform called Brahman. So if you want to solve the problems of life, without any difficulty, very easily, then this is the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Very simple and easy. You are seeing practically. You boys and girls who are participating in this movement... We have got sixty branches all over the world. Outside India... India, we have got four branches only. But fifty-six branches are outside the world, outside India. And they're all foreigners. Four years, or three years ago, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. Now they are chanting, dancing, enjoying Kṛṣṇa conscious life. This is practical proof how Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is effective. Before me, from India, many swamis came, but actually they could not induce the Westerners, especially the young generation, to any Indian cultural movement except this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That's a fact, historical.

*So my request to you all, those who are present here: try to understand the philosophy. You're educated, grown*-up boys and girls, gentlemen, ladies. We have got books, immense literature, big, big voluminous book. If you want to understand this philosophy through books, we are not in scarcity. We can supply you volumes of books. These books, some of them are demonstrated, but, if you do not like to take so much trouble to read over the book, then simply come and chant and dance with us and take prasādam, go home happy.

Thank you very much. (pause) Question? Yes.

*Devotee: How do you feel about self*-expression, art, as a path back to Godhead?



*Prabhupāda: Back to Godhead means God is a person, a person like you and me. Jut like your father is a person. That is a practical knowledge. Your father's father is also a person. His father is also a person. His father is also a person. Immediately you can understand. Therefore the supreme father must be a person. It is very difficult to understand? Any one of you can say it is very difficult to understand? God is called supreme father, not only in your Bible, but in the Vedas also. In all literature. And actually He's father, because the Vedānta says the Absolute Truth is the original father, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], from whom everything has taken birth or emanated. So the supreme father cannot be impersonal. He's a person. And in the Vedas, it is confirmed: nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the supreme eternal amongst all eternals. We are all eternal, living entities, and He's the supreme eternal. And we are all living entities, cetana, life symptoms. We have got everything, all desires. So similarly the supreme father has got all desires. Our desires are born because He has got desires. Just like we like to love, young boy, young girl. They're in love. Wherefrom this idea of love comes? It comes from there, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Because we are part and parcel of God, we have got all the instincts of God in minute quantity. But because here we are in this material world, material world means where God is forgotten. That is called material world. In this temple we are not in the material world. We are not in New York. We are in Vaikuṇṭha. Because we have not forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Yes. That is the definition given by the Vedic literature. Transcendental. Anyone who's living within this temple... I'll give you one example. Just like if a ship comes from foreign country, that ship may be within the border of your country, or within your country*-that ship is not within the law of your country. The ambassadors, the embassies, they are not within the law of USA. I give you some practical example. Similarly, anyone who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, anyplace it may be, that spot is not within the material world. That is transcendentally situated. So for practical going back to Godhead, you come to our temple. That's all. You'll never forget Kṛṣṇa. You'll be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you'll live in Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. This is the easiest process of going back to Godhead. And then, after death, surely you're going to Vaikuṇṭha or Kṛṣṇaloka. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes?



Guest: I (indistinct) something. How does one learn to control the senses, overwhelming?



Prabhupāda: This is very easy. If you apply your senses for the service of Kṛṣṇa, then your senses cannot act independently. That is controlling. Just like if you absorb your mind in something you forget everything. Similarly, if you practice how to make yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious, then automatically the senses and mind become controlled. It is not very difficult. Therefore we say that for solution of all problems you come and join with us. Here is a big temple. You live here. You learn how to do it. All right, thank you. (end)





760512SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.11

-

Honolulu, May 12, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter, One, verse number 12.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eleven?



Prabhupāda: Thirteen? Eh?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eleven?



Prabhupāda: Eleven. No, eleven I have discussed. Yes. You have got eleven there?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.



Hari-śauri: We did ten yesterday.



Prabhupāda: All right. (devotees repeat)



*śrī*-bādarāyaṇir uvāca

*karmaṇā karma*-nirhāro

na hy ātyantika iṣyate

*avidvad*-adhikāritvāt

prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam

[SB 6.1.11]



*[break]...and I have several times said that what is the use of? That is the same, hasti*-snāna. If he does not know how to keep the elephant, how to keep neat and clean, if he has no this knowledge, so repeatedly he'll take bath and throw dust.



So Bhāgavata, Parīkṣit, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the next step... Next step means to become cultured. First of all prāyaścitta: "You have done this wrong; you should be punished." But the punishment will not rectify him. And that is practical. There are so many rules and regular punishment. In common cases... Just like every day the police is giving a ticket to the motor driver; *still, the same thing is going on. So to keep oneself in darkness and makes rules and regulation will not help. Just like your government has admitted that they have spent millions of dollars, they could not stop the intoxication habit of LSD. That's a fact. But in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement one who joins, he gives up immediately. That's a fact. What is the difference? The difference is that to stop one kind of karma by karma will not help. Therefore it is said, karmaṇā karma*-nirhāra. One kind of activity is criminality, and one kind of activity just to punish him, this will not stop criminality. This is the real fact. He must be in knowledge. Cultivation of knowledge required. He must come to the senses, that "I am suffering. Every time I commit some criminality, I am punished. This is not very palatable. So why I cannot stop it?"

*This is the beginning of human life, that unless you come to this knowledge... athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called brahma*-jijñāsā. So that is possible in the human form of life. A dog cannot. A dog comes within your room, and you drive him away, you punish him, and still, with some plea he will come. So therefore Parīkṣit... Śukadeva Gosvāmī suggests that we have to make him free from the avidyā, ignorance. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Everyone is under the spell of māyā. Punaḥ punaḥ. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It is going on, but we do not inquire that "Why I am repeatedly accepting the cycle of birth and death?" That is avidyā. They are, rather, supporting, "Suppose if I become dog, what is the wrong there?" They say like that: "What is the wrong there?" So this means avidyā, ignorance.

So for eradicating ignorance from life, it requires culture, cultivation. That is suggested in the next verse.

nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo abhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāya kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



Just like if you go to the physician and the physician is giving medicine and he's taking the medicine and cured, again he is affected with the disease, again going, so why it is happening? It is happening because he does not follow the rules and regulation given by the physician. Therefore it is happening. The physician... As soon as you go to a physician, you have to accept something "do not" and something "do." That is called regulative principle. Without regulative principle you cannot correct yourself. So that regulative principle cannot stay if you are not a devotee. This is the gradual process. Simply if I say, "Follow the rules and regulation," it will not stay unless you become a devotee. That is the test of devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because it is so powerful, devotional service, that as soon as you become a devotee, gradually, immediately, all the good qualities of your original position...



Good qualities means we are part and parcel of God, so God is good, so we are also good. Otherwise how can I be part and parcel of God? If God is gold, then I am gold. So why I become iron? I am not iron, but I am covered with dirty things. I look like iron. This is the position. Actually I am not iron; I am gold, because I am part and parcel of God. If God is good, then I am good. So because I am covered by the material dirty things, I look like not gold. So this is the test. As soon as you become God conscious, your original all good qualities will manifest automatically.

yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā

sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ

*harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā

*mano*-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ

[SB 5.18.12]



That "One who has got unflinching faith, devotion to the Lord," yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā, "without any motive, then all the good qualities of God will manifest in him very soon."



kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā

*śaśvac*-chāntiṁ nigacchati

kaunteya pratijānīhi

na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati

[Bg. 9.31]



*api cet su*-durācāro

*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ...

[Bg. 9.30]



*These things are there. The devotional service is so nice. If you simply take to devotional service, then all good qualities will come. You don't have to educate him, to send some reformatory school or this or that. That will be explained. In devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. If you simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all your... Because originally you are good. You have become bad on account of the material association. Therefore devotion means to be purified. This is a purificatory process from material contamination. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If you think... Vimarśanam. If we think little soberly, that "I am thinking I am American or Indian. Am I American or Indian? This is upādhi, designation. By accident or somehow or other, I have got this body in America. Therefore I am American. But next time I may not take the American body. I may take another, Chinese body or something else." So one has to understand that "I am neither American, neither Chinese, nor Indian, nor white, nor black." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God." That is knowledge. We have to come to that. That is brahma*-bhūtaḥ.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to purify the designation. And so long we are in the darkness of this designation, that "I am this," "I am that," "I am this," "I am that," that is ignorance. Suppose a thief*-he is thinking that "If I do not steal, I cannot exist. I'll die. So I cannot stop stealing. I must go on." So this is ignorance. But if he thinks over that "The cats and dogs and the birds and beasts, they are very nicely eating. They are not stealing anyone's... Whatever he gets by the grace of God, he is happy," this is knowledge. Vimarśanam. Vimarśanam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything God's property. And we are all part and parcel, sons of God, so the property is for us. It is not for others. Just like father's property is meant for the son's enjoyment. That's a fact. So "If other sons, without any labor, without any endeavor, they can get their food, why I am stealing?" This is knowledge. This is knowledge. "Why I shall steal? There is enough food." But because I haven't got this knowledge that "God is the proprietor. I am His part and parcel, son. So if He has provided food for the elephant, who eats at a time forty kilos, he can eat, and I eat only, say, half a pound, I cannot eat?" This is knowledge. "Why shall I steal? I shall depend on God." This is knowledge. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. I am God's part... Why shall I starve? There are so many... Out of 8,400,000 forms of life, eight million forms of life are less than the human being. Human being, only 400,000. Out of that, civilized men very few. Out of that, Americans are very few, Indians are very few. So "If so many, 8,300,000 forms of life, they can get without stealing, why shall I steal?" This is knowledge. Prāyaścitta vimarśanam. As soon as he becomes in quite perfect knowledge, then whole problem solved.



*So this is the instruction of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. If we take seriously, then there is no problem. Otherwise the problems will go on, and the so-called rascal scientists will give up bluff that "We are making solution of all problem." It is never solved. It will never be solved in the future also, unless we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a fact. If you like, you can take it; otherwise suffer.

Thank you very much. (end)



750625SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.12

-

Los Angeles, June 25, 1975



Santoṣa: "My dear King, the pure uncontaminated food prescribed by a physician is suitable for a diseased person. If the patient continues eating such food, the infection of disease cannot touch him, for although diseased, he gradually advances on the path toward cure. Similarly, if one follows the regulative principles of preliminary knowledge, he gradually progresses toward liberation from material contamination."



Prabhupāda:



nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo 'bhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāya kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



*So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he, prāyaścittam atho 'pārtham [SB 6.1.10], he rejected this prāyaścitta policy, "I do something wrong and..." Just like in your country it is very... You make little mistake in driving car and you get a ticket. You go to the police and give some fine. But you should be careful no again ticket, again ticket. So this is condemned by Parīkṣit Mahārāja, that we can do mistake once or twice, but what is this? I go on committing mistake, and the police ticket is there, and again give, pay fine, and again do the same mistake again, again and again? Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Better be careful.



*That is being prescribed, that aśnataḥ pathyam eva annam. Pathyam means just suitable for your health. Such kind of foodstuff, you should eat. If you don't eat, then you'll fall sick. You cannot avoid eating. That is essential for maintaining the body. But if you eat everything, whatever you like, then you cannot keep good health. The example is given that if we do not carefully live, we shall be liable to punishment. But people do not care for punishment. "Oh, we shall see later on. Now let me enjoy." This is going on. The modern civilization means they do not care for next life or hellish condition of life. They do not care. They do not believe. It is great relief: "If I think that there is next life and I will have to suffer for my sinful activities, then life becomes very difficult, extravagance. Better don't accept this 'There is no life,' and then go on doing whatever we like." This is modern civilization. But that is very irresponsible life, because from the śāstra we understand*-by practical experience also-just if the boy does not go to school and he is not educated, then his future life is very dark. And a boy has to become a young man. A boy who says, "No, no, I am not going to be young man. I will remain a boy and go on playing whole day. I don't go to school, don't take education...,"that is not the fact. The fact is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Kṛṣṇa says, and we practically experience.

*So we must be very careful for the next life. That is human life. Cats and dogs, they cannot think of next life. They can do. They also do not do, because they are protected by nature. But when a man comes, becoming human being, the living entity, he must be responsible, "What I am doing?" Actually, we are reponsible. So for the next life we must be responsible. Yānti deva*-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. This is the life junction. If you like, you can go to the higher planetary system, you can go to the pitṛ-lokas, or lower down in the hellish lokas, or you can go to Kṛṣṇa also. That information we have got from the śāstra. So the human life means responsible life, not extravagance, "Whatever I like, I do like cats and dogs." That is not good. And in another place Ṛṣabhadeva has said also..., several times we have repeated, na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam, kleśada āsa dehaḥ. This world is going on not now. So long the material world is there, the living entities are after sense enjoyment like a madman. This is the position. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. They are acting very irresponsibly, and all kinds of sinful activities they are committing like a madman, without any responsibility of life. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And what for they are doing? Yad indriya-prītaye, simply for sense gratification, that's all. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, na sādhu manye: "This is not good." "Why it is not good? I am enjoying life." No, you are not enjoying. Because you have got this material body, there is no question of enjoyment. It is simply suffering. And you are thinking it is enjoyment. That is illusion. That is māyā. You are accepting something which is not.

*So everyone should be careful, that "I have got this material body. This is disease. Why I shall get material body?" That they do not know. From Bhagavad-gītā we understand, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We are not finished after the body is annihilated, no, or destroyed, no. So we are eternal. That is called brahma-jñāna. Unless one has the brahma-jñāna, that "I am not this body," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, aham, "I am brahman, spirit soul," so people will go on doing all irresponsible things. Because he does not know. So we human being should come to the understanding-that is knowledge-that so long we get this material body, this is my disease. And disease means suffering. Nobody can say that "By being diseased, I am very happy." Nobody will say that. Disease means suffering. "So the śāstra says-and I am practically experiencing*-that I am eternal. I am changing body every moment. So I am eternal. Why I am put into this condition, repetition of birth and death?" This is intelligence. Unless one comes to this intelligence, he is not human being. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13].

So this wrong thing is going on. So here the example is given that if you live in regulative principle, then you will not suffer from this disease. This disease means this material world. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. We take one kind of..., we accept one kind of body and struggle for existence, suffer so much, again we get another body, and new chapter of suffering begins. This knowledge is lacking in modern education. And they are very much proud of becoming advanced in knowledge. What is the advancement of knowledge? You have to cure your disease. The whole Vedic civilization is how to cure this disease of repetition of birth and death. That they do not know. All tapasya, all austerities, penances... This will be explained next verse. Why needed? Now, just to cure this disease, repetition of birth and death. They have no knowledge.

*So it is recommended that adhayo vyādhayaḥ. There are three kinds of miserable condition*-everyone, not for a particular person-adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. And as soon as you get this material body, you will have to suffer. So if you want to stop this suffering, then you must live regulative life. Regulative life is recommended in the next verse,

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyaṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*These are prescribed duties of human being. What are the prescribed duties? The first prescribed duty is tapasā, they must execute austerities. This is human life. That is everywhere recommended. Ṛṣabhadeva also recommended, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva: "My dear boys, don't live like cats and dogs and hogs." He advised. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. "If I don't work hard, how shall I satisfy my senses? At night I must have this intoxication, this woman, this club, this If I don't work hard how shall I get this enjoyment?" So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of enjoyment is available to the hogs. It is not very good type of enjoyment, sense gratification." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool-eater. So they are also enjoying by eating stool and having sex without any discrimination, don't care for mother, sister So this kind of sense gratification civilization is there amongst the dogs and hogs, but human life is not meant for that. Human life is meant for tapasya, austerity, so that human life you can stop your repetition of birth and death and come to your eternal life and enjoy blissful eternal life of knowledge. That is the aim of life. Not that "Never mind." The education is that a university student, and if he is said, if he is informed that "If you live irresponsibly, then you may become dog next life," so they say, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" (laughter) This is the result of education. He doesn't care. He is thinking, "If I get the life of a dog, I will have no restriction of my sex life on the street." That's it. He is thinking that is advancement. "If now there is restriction, now unrestrictedly if I get sex life on the street..." And they are coming gradually, that advancement.



*So this is the position. So they do not believe in the next life, and what to speak of cats' and dogs' life. "Never mind." Everything is very dark. Therefore, unless we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the human civilization is doomed. It is not human civilization. Human civilization is responsible life. Actually, we are being educated, we go to school, to college, to become responsible man. So this responsibility should be "How to stop this repetition of birth." In many places this is advised. And that is the only aim of human life. Punar-janma-jayāya. I have told you many times that when Viśvāmitra Muni went to Daśaratha Mahārāja to take Rāmacandra and Lakṣmaṇa to kill one demon in the forest... Viśvāmitra Muni is brāhmaṇa. He was so powerful, he could himself kill that demon, but because he is brāhmaṇa, he is not allowed to kill. A brāhmaṇa must be nonviolent. So therefore he went to the kṣatriya, Mahārāja Daśaratha. This is kṣatriya's business. Kṣatriya means..., kṣat means injury, and tra means delivered. The kṣatriya's duty is... There is somebody is creating disturbance, injury to others*-it is the government's duty, kṣatriya's duty, to punish him immediately, or, if required, to kill him, immediately. That is kṣatriya's duty. So one demon was very much disturbing the ṛṣis in the jungle. So they came to Daśaratha Mahārāja to get some relief. Kṣatraṁ dvijatvaṁ ca parasparārtham. He said, "My dear King Daśaratha, I have come to you for some help. The disturbance is going on." Just like we go to the government for police help if there is some disturbance, this is the duty of the government, kṣatriya. So "We are having sacrifices, penances for the whole humanity. Now we are disturbed. You save us." Kṣatraṁ dvijatvaṁ ca parasparārtham. This is required.

*Parasparārtham means mutual help. The brāhmaṇas should give advice to the kṣatriyas, to the government, and the government, according to the nice good advice, should maintain the state. In this way there will be peaceful condition of the society. Therefore there is the institution of varṇāśrama. Cātur*-varṇyaṁ māyā... Kṛṣṇa says, "I have made this varṇāśrama for the benefit of the whole human society, although I don't belong to any varṇa, āśrama." Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do, but to maintain the human society very peaceful, advancing in spiritual knowledge, this varṇāśrama is required. Therefore sometimes I become very eager to start a varṇāśrama college. We have nothing to do with varṇāśrama, we Kṛṣṇa..., But we want to see that the whole human society is peaceful. That is our mission. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is the desire of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and those who are servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they should also desire how to do good to the whole human society. A Vaiṣṇava is not only interested for his own benefit. His own benefit is already done as soon as he has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. He has nothing else desire over. Everything is finished, protected by Kṛṣṇa. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaś... [Bg. 9.31]. But they work in the human society on behalf of Kṛṣṇa so that they may be happy, peaceful, and make progress in spiritual life. That is Vaiṣṇava's duty. Otherwise Vaiṣṇava has nothing to ask. Kṛṣṇa knows how to help him, how to give him all protection. So he has no anxiety. His only anxiety is śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Vaiṣṇava is anxious to see that these rascals who has forgotten completely his relationship with God, Kṛṣṇa, and making gorgeous arrangement for living fifty years only, although he is eternal He is not making any eternal arrangement. "I shall live here for fifty years or sixty years as an American or as an Indian. Make me gorgeous arrangement, defense and so on, so on, so on." If you defend, then You are going to live for fifty, sixty, or utmost hundred years, but you are eternal. What you are doing for your eternal life? That is the mistake of the civilization. You may remain as American or Indian for, say, utmost, hundred years. But you are not for hundred years. You are eternal. What you are doing for your eternal life? This is our question. But they do not believe in eternal life. "We don't believe in the next life." But that is You believe or not believe If some young man says, "I will not become old man," so he may believe or not, he must become old man. If somebody says, "I am not going to die. I don't believe in death," you believe or not believe, you must die. This is law of nature. How can we avoid it?

*So this is intelligence. Therefore we should live very regulative life. And as I was going to say, the Vedic civilization... Just like the Visvamitra when he went to Mahārāja Daśaratha, kṣatriya, to get help, Mahārāja Daśaratha inquired that... Just like if we go to a friend, so what is our inquiry? "You are happy with your family, with your children?" Because they have a family. But here is a saintly man. So what should we inquire? Inquire, the inquiry is aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tam punar-janme-jayāya: "My dear Viśvāmitra Muni, brāhmaṇa, I know that you are all trying to get release from repetition of birth and death." Why he has gone to the forest? He has gone to the forest for executing austerity, so that next life may be not material but spiritual life. This is the aim of life. The whole human effort, civilization, should be conducted with the aim how to stop this repetition of birth and death. This is science. Aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tam punar-janma-jayāya. He inquired-he was a brāhmaṇa, great sage*-that "You have taken so much trouble that you are living in the forest, you are undergoing meditation and other regulative principles-why?" Punar-janma-jayāya: "To stop next birth." Punar-janma-jayāya, the Buddhist philosophy, punar-janma-jayāya means they take it that no more birth, but finish this business in the different way. They do not believe that there is next life, but dismantle this material condition of life. That is their nirvāṇa theory. Because Buddha philosophy was taught not amongst very intelligent person, atheist class of men. So that is punar... They are also trying for punar-janma-jayāya. The Christians, the Lord Christ, he also said that "Come to kingdom of God," not repetition of birth here again and again. That is the principle of all religious system. Punar-janma-jayāya. So it is not for the Hindus, Muslim, or Christian. Every human being should try his best, how to avoid to get another material body. This is the basic principle of civilization. But this can be attained only when you agree to live a regulative life. Just like we see one..., what is called? "Repent sinners." What is that? (laughter) Every day we go, see that. So one must be repentant for his sinful activities. One must know what are sinful activities. Apart from any other scripture, in Christian scripture it is said, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not do this." These are sinful activities. Otherwise why it is forbidden, "Thou shall not"?

*So people are neglecting. Any religious system*-it doesn't matter-forbids, "Don't commit sinful life, you will suffer." So people have made a civilization that "There is no life, and you can go on irresponsibly, as you like, enjoy life, and never mind if I become a dog. What is the wrong there?" That's all. This kind of civilization must be stopped if we want to remain a human being. And if we don't want, if we want to remain as cats and dogs, that is a different thing. But if you want to remain as human being, you must live regulative principle. And that we are teaching. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching regulative life for next spiritual life, back to home, back to Godhead. This is our mission. So regulative life means... Sinful life, if we become sinful, irresponsible, then another material body. That is the advice. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada. As soon as you get another material body, it is suffering. So try to realize these things. Therefore, punar-janma-jayāya. The whole aim should be how to conquer over again material... This is intelligence. This is intelligence.

*So he is recommending, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, that this regulative life should be conducted: first of all tapasya. Tapasya means... Tapa. Tapa means voluntary suffering. That is called tapasya. The voluntary suffering means what is our enjoyment? First of all let us see. The enjoyment is if we can eat voraciously, eating, and if we can sleep thirty hours, and if we have got sex life without any discrimination, and don't care for defense. That's all. This is enjoyment life, material enjoyment means. Now, tapasya means denying all these things, denying. Eating as much as I require to maintain my body*-this is tapasya, not that voraciously eating. Tapasya means practically not eating. That is tapasya: not eating. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was a very rich man's son. So he showed us the example, what is tapasya. He gradually reduced his eating, every alternate days a little butter. That's all. Raguṇatha dāsa Gosvāmī. And still, he was taking three times bath and hundred times... Sāṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. He was offering obeisances flat hundred times and taking bath three times. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, those who have gone to Rādhā-Kunda, you have seen, the extreme tapasya. He was very rich man's son. In those days his father's income was twelve lakhs of rupees. He left his happy home and joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu and exemplified tapasya. He showed.

So tapasya generally means that first thing is that we should reduce our eating, sleeping, mating and defense. This is called tapasya, voluntarily accept. Suppose I am accustomed to eat very voraciously, and if I have to execute tapasya, that means I will have to reduce my eating to the point of no eating. But that is not possible. But that will create some trouble. But I will accept this trouble, this is called tapasya. I am habituated to sleep so many hours; I will have to reduce it. Yuktāhāra vihāraś ca. We don't say, "Don't sleep," but we say, "Reduce sleep as much as possible. Reduce your eating as much as possible." So this is called tapasya. And brahmacaryeṇa. Brahmacaryeṇa means completely cessation of sex life. So that is not possible to completely give up eating or completely sex life, but make it regulated. That is tapasya: eating, sleeping, mating, and defense as much as it is required. The aim should be to make it nil. That is called tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Brahmācārya means, strictly. Brahmācārya means that one should not look upon woman, "Oh, here is a very beautiful girl." That is also sex, subtle sex. And to talk, "Fsh, fsh, fsh, fsh," that is also subtle sex. So these things are to be avoided. There are eight kinds of subtle sex life. This is called brahmācārya. So according to Vedic śāstra, if one lives with one woman, one man, they are also brahmacārī. Not many. This is... If one cannot give up sex life, let him be satisfied with one man and one woman. That is also tapasya, that is also brahmacārī. But not that jumping from here, there, there, there, there, no, like monkey, no. (laughter) This is training. This is training.

Now, by nature, according to Vedic civilization, that... Vedic civilization is natural life. It is not something artificial or irresponsible life. That is Vedic civilization. Vedic means full of knowledge, life with full of knowledge. That is called Vedic civilization. It is not a particular type of... With full of knowledge. So in the Vedic civilization a woman, if she has no child or son or daughter, she can marry for the second time. Otherwise, she will be enemy of the child. This is practical. If a woman has got child and again she marries, that means voluntarily she becomes enemy of his child. Therefore Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, mātā śatru dvi cārinī.

*ṛna*-kartā pitā śatrur

mātā śatrur dvicārinī

rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ

putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ



*His moral instruction. Śatruḥ means enemy. Now, who are enemies within our family? Outside enemies, that is not very... That is natural. Everyone is enemy of the other man. But within the family, if we live with enemies, that is very difficult. So how enemies, who are enemies? That he has described: ṛna-kartā pitā śatruḥ. If the father is a great debtor, then he is enemy. Because people will criticize, "Oh, your father has taken so much money, so much credit. Why he is not paying? Why don't you...?" So he is enemy. Ṛna-kartā pitā śatrur. And according to Manu-saṁhitā law, if he does not inherit even a farthing from his father, and if his father dies debtor, then the son has to pay it. Because son inherits the property of the father, so he is responsible for the father's debt. Never mind he has got anything from the father or not. Therefore it is said, ṛna-kartā pitā śatruḥ: "A father who dies a debtor, then he is enemy." And mātā śatrur dhicārinī: "Mother, if in the presence of his son marries again, she is enemy. She is enemy." Ṛna-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dhicārinī. Dhicārinī means in the presence of children-one or two, it doesn't matter*-she becomes enemy. Ṛna-kartā pitā śatrur mātā...rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ: "If you have got very beautiful wife, she is also enemy." (laughter) Because many man will try to kidnap, and you will have to remain always anxiety. (laughter) So rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ... (end)





760513SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.12

-

Honolulu, May 13, 1976



Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.



Devotees: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.



*Prabhupāda: So, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter One, text number twelve. (devotees repeat)



nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ

vyādhayo abhibhavanti hi

evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan

śanaiḥ kṣemāya kalpate

[SB 6.1.12]



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is explaining how to become perfect gentleman. That is culture. If we do not accept education, culture, then where is the difference between a man and dog? There is no difference. So the Vedic civilization means everything under rules and regulation. That is Vedic civilization. Animal cannot be brought under rules and regulations. That is not possible. Therefore that is the speciality of human society, that the more one society follows the rules and regulation, he is to be considered civilized. Just like throughout the whole history there are civilization, Aryan civilization, Aryan and non*-Aryan. What is the difference? Aryan means progress. One who is progressing towards the perfection of life, they are called Aryans, and those who are degrading towards animal propensity, they are non-Aryans. This is the difference. Aryan culture.



*So Kṛṣṇa, when found Arjuna, that he was in the battlefield and Kṛṣṇa Himself is guiding him and becoming the chariot driver, and He saw that "Arjuna is declining to fight?" He became surprised. So He chastised him, kutas te kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya*-juṣṭam. Aryan, ārya, ārya. "So this is not for a gentleman, business. You are behaving like non-Aryans." Non-Aryan. So this is the difference between culture and nonculture, that... There is a Bengali proverb that one girl was to dance on the stage. So in Indian civilization the girls or the woman, they cover their head with..., from superiors. So nāste vase guntala(?). She has gone to dance on the stage, and she is pulling on the veil. "Now, where is the opportunity of here to become a household wife? You have come to dance." So similarly, Arjuna was chastised that "You have come to fight, and now you are becoming very nonviolent, atheist..., er, theist. What is...? So this is anārya. You have to do your duty in proper place." That is Aryanism. That is ārya. Ārya-samāj means one who knows his duty, how to do it in proper time. So kṣatriya, his duty is to fight, to defend from the hands of the enemy. So he was declining to fight, so He chastised him, "Non-Aryans. You are not Aryan.

*So here Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "My dear king, if a diseased person eats the pure, uncontaminated food prescribed by a physician, he is gradually cured, and the infection of disease can no longer touch him. Similarly, if one follows the regulative principles of knowledge, he gradually progresses towards liberation from material contamination." This is the translation of the... Nāśnataḥ pathyam. Pathyam. Pathyam means good foodstuff, not "Anything I can eat." That is the business of the hogs and dogs. Just like hogs have no discrimination. Anything, up to stool you give him: it will eat. That is not human civilization. Although it is the law of nature that ahastāni sahastānām. Vegetables or animals who has no hand... Just like ordinary animals, they have got four legs, no hand. So these four*-legged animals is the food for the two-legged animals. Ahastāni sahastānām. Uncivilized men means two-legged animals. They are animals, but two-legged. There are four-legged animals; *there are two*-legged. Ahastāni sahastānām apadāni catuṣ-padām: "And living entities who have no legs, just like the vegetables, grass, plants, trees..." They have no legs. They cannot move, but they are living entities. They are food for catuṣ-padām, for the animals who have got four legs. Ahastāni sahastānām apadāni catuṣ-padām, phalgūni mahatāṁ tatra: "And the weak is food for the strong." Phalgūni... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. This is the law of nature, that one life is meant for maintaining another life. That is going on. So sometimes they put forward this argument that "You are also eating vegetables. They have got life. Why you object that nonvegetarians who are eating four legged animals...?" No. We are not going to infringe to the laws of nature. That is not our business. You can eat four-legged animals because you are also animal. But when we speak of civilized animals... Civilized is not animal. That is human being. So long one is not civilized, he is animal. And the civilization begins when one understands that he is not this body. That is the beginning of civilization. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. So long one is in ignorance, the bodily concept of life, he is animal. When one knows that "I am not this body; I am... Ahaṁ brahmāsmi," then civilization begins.

*So here it is recommended that unless we follow the rules and regulations, then there is no possibility of curing our material disease. The whole process is we are in materially diseased. Otherwise we are as good as Kṛṣṇa, but because we are materially diseased, we are in the difficult position of birth, death, old age and disease. Kṛṣṇa says. This is real problem. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. So if we want to be cured from this disease, then we have to follow rules and regulation, just like a patient, if he wants to be cured from the disease, he has to follow the rules and regulation prescribed by the physician. Therefore law, religion, Vedic scripture, they are all meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. Even ordinary law, they are meant for human being. Just like on the street it is "Keep to the right." So this is for the human being. If the cats and dogs goes from right to the left or wrong, they are not prosecuted. The law is meant for the human being. If the human being does not follow rules and regulative principle, law, then he's animal. So civilized means to raise oneself from the animal status of life to the human status life. That means rules and regulations. Nāśnataḥ pathyam evānnaṁ vyādhayo abhibhavanti hi, evaṁ niyamakṛd rājan [SB 6.1.12]. Niyama. Niyama means regulation. We have to follow the rules and regulation. That is compulsory. That is human. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find this verse, anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karilā. The purport is that our disease is that we have forgotten God. The more we are forgetful about God, the more we are animals. And the more we become advanced in understanding God, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are human being. And if we are more advanced, then you are devatā, demigods. And when you more make advance, then you become fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process.

So real civilization is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. But that they do not know. Na te viduḥ. The materialistic persons, they do not know. Therefore there must be organization, institution, to teach the human society how to go back to home, back to... That is real civilization. Otherwise cats and dogs, they are also eating, sleeping, mating, getting children, and dying. That is not human civilization. In the next verse we'll find that human civilization can be attained. The first thing is, thirteeth verse, tapasa, "by austerity."

tapasā brahmacaryena

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*deha*-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā

dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ

kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api

*veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ



*These are the different steps, how one person can become civilized. So first thing is tapasā. Tapasā brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13], austerities. Therefore in the Vedic civilization the children, they are taught from the very beginning brahmacarya. Tapasā brahmacarya. A small boy, five*-years-old boy... That is gurukula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam [SB 7.12.1]. This is a way of life, to teach the brahmācārya, brahmacarya, celibacy, to restrain from sex life. That is brahmacarya. So this is the beginning of civilization. The unlimited, unrestricted sex life like hogs and dogs, that is not civilization. Civilization, the first of all, to learn how to observe celibacy, to come to the point, no sex life. That is perfect civilization: no sex life. Therefore in the Vedic civilization you'll find the human society is divided into four orders and four spiritual or..., material and spiritual, varṇāśrama. Varṇa and āśrama. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. (end)





710727SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.13-14

-

New York, July 27, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So we have been discussing this verse for the last two days. Tyāgena. Partially I have already explained: tyāga, renounce. There is some natural tendency also for renouncing. When one gets to the topmost of material opulence, immediately there is a tendency for renunciation. This hippie movement is like that. They have got a good qualification that they have renounced this materialistic way of life. Tyāgena. The, there are two kinds of tendencies: one is bhoga and one is tyāga. Bhoga means enjoyment, sense enjoyment, and tyāga means to give up this material world. But without guidance, one does not know how to renounce this material world. That is called tyāga. Bhoga and tyāga, two kinds of tendencies are going on in this material world. First of all they want to enjoy, and when they are frustrated in enjoyment, then there is renouncement. Again when they are tired of renouncement, again enjoyment. Just like the clock pendulum, this side and that side*-tock, tock, tock, tock. Similarly, we are oscillating: sometimes in the platform of enjoyment and sometimes on the platform of renouncement. Two things are there in this material world. The karmīs, they are trying to enjoy this world, whole day and night that expressway, always trucks and cars are going on-sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh. Bhoga, how to enjoy, first class. Another, the hippies. They don't want to do anything. Both sides are there in your country, bhoga and tyāga.



*But in neither of the paths you'll be happy, because that is not your proper position. You cannot enjoy or you cannot renounce. Actually the whole thing belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to anyone. Whatever you have got in possession, that is Kṛṣṇa's property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything. You do..., you try to understand. The trees, the plants, the water, the land*-have you produced it? Then how do you claim that it is your land, it is your country, it is your water, it is your tree? That is the wrong position. And similarly, tyāga, renouncement... What can you renounce? What you had? What is the meaning of renouncement? You had nothing. You came here in this world from the womb of your mother empty-handed, a child. Then you falsely claim: "This is my country, this is my home, this is my wife, this is my children, this is my property, this is my bank balance, this is my skyscraper building..." All these false. Because you did not brought this. You came empty-handed, and when you go, you go empty-handed. The things are there. The bank balance is there. The building is there. You cannot take anything. So what is the meaning of bhoga and tyāga? There is no meaning. Either now, neither able to enjoy, because it is not your property. If you want to enjoy other's property, then you'll be implicated in criminal offenses. And if you say others' property, "I renounce this bank, I renounce this Bank of America," when did it belong to you, that you are making renouncement? It is all lunacy.

*Then what to do? That is direction given by Kṛṣṇa: sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You have created different types of religion on the basis of this bhoga and tyāga. So you give up all them. Then? Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: "You surrender unto Me." Because you cannot enjoy nor make any renunciation. But here it is said tapasā, tyāgena, by renouncing. Renouncing means that you're falsely possessing. So you give it to Kṛṣṇa, the original proprietor. Just like one hundred dollars note, a child has taken from the father. The child does not know how to use that hundred dollars note, but he, he'll not give it to the father. "No, I shall not give it." Father is begging: "Oh, my dear child, you are so nice. Kindly give it to me." Actually the note belongs to the father. But because he's child, he's innocent, ignorant, he does not know. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, dadāsi yat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam. Dāna, this tyāga, "You renounces this world for Me. You renounce your wealth, your property for Me." The same thing. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. He's not a beggar. But He's patting the child, "Oh, you are very good boy. Kindly give it to Me." That is the way. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Because... The same example: the child does not know how to utilize that hundred dollars note. He'll simply spoil it. The best thing is to give it over, hand it over to the father. He knows how to use it. It is his property.

*Similarly this tyāgena means to practice, to give everything to Kṛṣṇa. Everything. Tyāgena. Śamena damena tyāgena. This is the different steps of elevating yourself to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena ca damena ca, tyāgena satya-śaucābhyām [SB 6.1.13]. Satya means truthfulness. One should know what is truth, ultimate truth, Absolute Truth. We are concerned with relative truths, but we have to know the Absolute Truth. Just like in the Bhāgavata Vyāsadeva is offering his respect, obeisances: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. "I offer my respect to the Supreme Truth, not to the relative truth." We are concerned with relative truth, categorical truth, not the summum bonum. Śaucābhyām: cleanliness. This is also required. Cleanliness. You should take bath, twice, thrice, at least once. That is hygienic. Bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ. One should be cleansed. Bāhya means externally, and abhyantara, internally. Externally, you take soap, water, soda, and cleanse yourself, body. Take bath, cleanse, keep your clothing very cleansed. Unclean habit will not help you, unclean habit. Cleanliness is godliness. Truthful. Truthfulness. These are the qualities of brāhmaṇa. Satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānaṁ brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam. Those who are brāhmaṇas, they must be qualified with all these symptoms. Satyam. This satyam, truthful. How truthful? You, even before your enemies, you'll disclose everything. Such truthful. That is the instruction of ācāryas. We don't want to disclose everything, hide. But truthfulness means even to a enemy you should be truthful. Satyaṁ śamam. This śamam, controlling the mind. Damam, controlling the senses. Satyaṁ samo damaḥ śaucam, cleanliness. Ārjavam, simply sitting, no duplicity, simply sitting. Ārjavam āstikyam. Faith in Vedas, that is called āstikyam. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, part of Vedas. Here Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme Lord." So you have to accept Him by faith. This is called āstikyam. Āstikyam, jñānam. Not foolishly, but with knowledge, full knowledge. And vijñānam, practical application in life. Brahma-karma svabhāva-jam. This is the natural symptoms of a brāhmaṇa.

So you are all initiated to become brāhmaṇa. You have become brāhmaṇa. Don't become false brāhmaṇa. Real brāhmaṇa. It is not by birth; *it is by education, by practice, by knowledge. So we are offering the sacred thread to the Americans and Europeans in the Western countries, and some of our Indian contemporaries, they are not very happy with my action. They are under contemplation that a brāhmaṇa can be, I mean to say, seen by birthright. No. No. Brāhmaṇa is by qualification. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is the verdict of Kṛṣṇa. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇa, not any other else. Kṛṣṇa says, cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: [Bg. 4.13] "By division of quality and, guṇa, and work, one must have the symptoms, the quality of a brāhmaṇa, and work as a brāhmaṇa." Not that... Quality will be tested by work. Suppose if you are engineer. You have got the quality of... But if you sit down at home, what is your value? You must be engaged in some engineer work. Suppose you are lawyer, and if you don't go to the court and sleep at your home, then what is the worth of your studying law? Therefore guṇa-karma. One should not be simply qualified as engineer or lawyer, but he must work also, as engineer, as lawyer. Then he's bona fide. Similarly, unless you work as a brāhmaṇa, simply saying that "I am a brāhmaṇa," what is the value? Useless. They..., therefore Kṛṣṇa says, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. There must be quality and work also. So here we are qualifying the students to be raised in the brahminical platform, and they're working also as brāhmaṇa. How they are working as brāhmaṇa? Because they're fully engaged in Paraṁ Brahma's service, Kṛṣṇa's service. Therefore they are brāhmaṇas. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. Without knowing, nobody can render service. They are not rendering service in the ear. They are serving Kṛṣṇa factually. Here is sitting Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī. Therefore they're brāhmaṇa by quality and work. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13].

So this is paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. They are worshiping the Supreme Truth, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Cause of all causes. Relative truth is the effect of the Absolute Truth. But He's Absolute Truth. He's the supreme cause, and everything is effect. Cause of all causes. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. Satya-śaucābhyām and... How these things can be executed? Yamena niyamena vā. Yama-niyama. The practice of yoga is based on this principle of yama-niyama, regulating, controlling, regulating. Regulation cannot be executed without control. Therefore yamena niyamena vā. These are the process. If you want to elevate... Our topics began... The people are suffering. Although one knows that "This is not good, what I am doing," he has heard, he has seen also the effect of it... The same example: A man who has stolen some property, he's arrested. And he knew it, that "If I steal, I'll be punished." But he has done it, the same thing. He knew it. He heard it from the police courts, that stealing is not good. He knew it. He heard it from authorities. Still he has done it. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja's question is, "What is this atonement?" If he, although knowing and hearing, completely in knowledge, still he's forced to do something, to steal, or to something criminal, what then is the use of putting him into the jail and atonement? He'll come again and again do the same thing.



*Therefore he's saying that actually atonement is knowledge. "Why I am stealing? What is the use?" Vimarśanam, prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Vimarśanam means to be thoughtful. Without being thoughtful, philosopher, how one can understand, what is his position? Thoughtful. And that thoughtfulness comprehends so many things. Tapasā. One has to learn it by tapasya. Just like if one wants to pass M.A. examination, then he has to go school, follow the principle of the schools, college, study, and take some pains. Then gradually he'll come a passed M.A. student. And if he plays all the day on the street, how he can...? That is not possible. Therefore the process is being explained by Śukadeva Gosvāmī: tapasā. First thing is tapasya, austerity. Even it is painful... Austerity's painful. Brahmacarya is painful. Because we want, unrestricted, to do everything. But no. As soon as it is regulated it appears to be painful. When it is practiced, it is not painful. One brahmacārī in Indian city, in severe cold, he was sleeping in the open air, without any covering. And it was severe cold. But it was practice. During Māgha*-melā, many saintly persons come there on the bank of the Gaṅgā, Ganges. This year we had our own camp; we have seen. The whole night they are sitting in the open air, without any covering.

*So practice. So practice means if you undergo austerity, tapasya, everything will be practiced. That is a Bengali proverb: śarīre nā mahāśaya(?). Mahāśaya is a word used in India, a very respectable gentleman, mahāśaya. So this śarīra, this body is mahāśaya. Ya sa haye sa taicha(?). Whatever he'll practice, it will be accustomed. So practice. So here this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bringing them to the practice. Therefore you find, so nice, boys and girls, they're practiced. As soon as they're neglectful to the practice*-falls down. They cannot stay. Immediately goes out. So that is called austerity, tapasya. Practice. Practical life. So these are the processes.

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā



*deha*-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā

dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ

kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api

*veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ

[SB 6.1.13-14]



*Veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ. Just like there is a jungle-so many unwanted creepers-so you set fire. Everything will be burned into ashes and the field will be cleared, cleansed. So it is said: deha-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ. Those who are dhīra... Dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means sober and adhīra means extravagant. There are two classes of men, dhīra and adhīra. Here Śukadeva Gosvāmī's speaking of the dhīra. Who is dhīra? Dhīra means in spite of provocation, in spite of something present which agitates the mind, one remains, I mean to say, in his position, steady. He's called dhīra.



*The dhīra example is given by Kālidāsa Paṇḍita, a great poet in India, Sanskrit poet, long, long ago. He has written one book: Kumāra*-sambhava. Kumāra-sambhava. In our college we read that book in Sanskrit class. Kumāra-sambhava. So he has given one example of dhīra about Lord Śiva, Mahādeva. He was meditating and the demigods, they had a plan, that "The demons are fighting with us. We are being defeated. We want a commander in chief, who must be born out of the semina of Lord Śiva." But he was in meditation. So how to do it? So Pārvatī, she was sent. She was young girl. And she was worshiping the genital of Lord Śiva. So a young girl, touching the genital, and she's present, but still Lord Śiva was in meditation. So Kālidāsa-here is the example of dhīra. He's called dhīra. In spite of presence of a young girl touching the genital, he's not, I mean to say, disturbed. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You have heard the Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and somebody wanted to cut down. He was young man. So young prostitute was sent at dead of night. And he, she proposed... Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, "Yes, it is very nice proposal. Please sit down. Let me finish my chanting, and I shall enjoy." So it became morning. The prostitute became, I mean to say, perturbed. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura replied, "I am very sorry. I could not finish my chanting. Please come this night again." The first night, second night..., third night the prostitute fell down on his feet and said, "Sir, this was my intention. I was induced to do this act by some man who is your enemy. So kindly excuse me." So Haridāsa Ṭhākura replied, "I knew that. But because you came to me, therefore I allowed you to come here, three days, so that you may be converted to be a devotee. So now take these chanting beads. You sit down. Go on chanting. I am leaving this place." Here is another dhīra.

*So here it is said, deha-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā dharmajñāḥ. One who has control, deha, the body, vāk, the words, buddhi, intelligence*-they are dhīra. So this tridaṇḍī. This tridaṇḍī-sannyāsa means to become dhīra, controlling śarīra; deha, the body; vāk, words; *and intelligence. These things should be utilized. How? By dhīra, those who are dhīra. Dharmajña. One who knows actually the principle of religion. Dharmajña. Deha*-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ, kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api. So because our life is continuously committing sinful activities, from time immemorial... You do not know when it began. Evolution, many births. Therefore this life is meant for rectifying all mistakes that we had committed in our previous life or in this life. How? By this process. Kṣipanty agham. Agham means the resultant action of sinful life. Mahad api. Although it is very great, mahad api, how? Veṇu-gulmam, veṇu-gulmam ivānalaḥ. Just like if you set fire to unwanted grass and creepers in the field. You set fire, and they will be all burned. Similarly, by this process, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13], you can liquidate all of your sinful activities of life and you become purified.

So the next process, another alternative process is being suggested by Śukadeva Gosvāmī.

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



*Kecit, not all. Kecit means somebody. Somebody, not all. Generally people understand austerity or pious life by this process. What is that? Brahmacarya, śama*-dama, yama-niyama, tyāga, renunciation: "Oh, he's very pious man." But another man, kecit... That is also kecit, not all. Kecit means somebody. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. Simply by pure devotional service, simply by pure devotional service, vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, I mean, inclined to Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. Or somebody simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, aghaṁ dhunvanti, they kill all resultant action of sinful life. Dhunvanti. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena, wholesale. How it is? Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Just like there is fog and, as soon as the sun rises, whole fog gone, finished. Very good example. The fog is dense. You cannot see the next person. It is so dangerous. When there is fog in the ocean, they stop all the ships. I have experience. And the aeroplanes, sometimes they clash, they move very carefully. It is very dangerous, fog. Those who are... But as soon as there is sunrise, some way or other, everything finished. Similarly, some way or other, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all the sinful reaction of your life immediately finished like the fog. So, but... This process is accepted kecit, somebody, very fortunate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said:



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not for ordinary persons. It is meant for very, very fortunate persons. But simply by accepting one thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he finishes all business of brahmacarya, tyāga, yama, niyama, śama, dama, everything.



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is prescribing, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. Kevalayā bhaktyā. Kevala*-bhakti. There is no mixture. Kevala means only pure devotional service. What is that pure devotional service?

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



No other desire than to please Kṛṣṇa. Not that "I have become a devotee. Now my income will increase," or "I shall be..." That, that will come automatically. You want money to increase your income to become happy. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, automatically you'll be so happy that you'll neglect to collect money. That will automatically come. There is no need of separate endeavor. Happiness will come. Yaṁ labdhvā. Just like Dhruva, Dhruva Mahārāja. He was so lamenting. Those who are recording, I mean, transcribing my tapes, how he was lamenting, that "How foolish I was that I took to devotional service with a desire for some material profit." He was so much repentant. So that is, that is another profit of the devotee. For material profit, somebody goes to somebody, some boss, some rich man, some demigod, some powerful man. But a devotee does not go anywhere. He goes to Kṛṣṇa only. Even if he has got material desires. That is the advantage. This advantage: that if you go to Kṛṣṇa for some material advantage even, then day will come, you'll forget that material advantage.



*Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he was repentant, that "I came to Kṛṣṇa for asking some material..." The example is given: Just like one has pleased a very big, rich man, and the rich man said, "All right, you ask me whatever you want. I shall give you." So when he's asked to beg whatever he wants, then if he asks that "Give me some broken rice grains," is that very good proposal? If he's asking that "You can ask anything else from me"*-he's a rich man-ask him for millions of dollars or something like that. But instead of..., if you ask for your foolishness, that "Please give me some broken grains of rice..." So similarly, to go to Kṛṣṇa and to ask some material benefit is exactly like this, to go to some rich man and ask from his "Please give me some broken grains of rice." Why one should ask for material happiness from Kṛṣṇa? Material happiness will roll on his feet: "Please take me, please take me." These Kṛṣṇa conscious boys and girls, in sixty centers, just see how they are materially opulent. They're living in the best house. They're eating best food. They're in best consciousness. They have got the best hope. Everything best. Their feature of body is best. What you want material happiness more than this? They have got wife, children, happiness, home-everything-full. So material happiness is nothing to a Kṛṣṇa conscious person. He gets automatically by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of asking for it. Simply be steady to ask Kṛṣṇa, "Please engage me in Your service." Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. How Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied? Then your satisfaction will automatically come. Don't bother for material happiness.

Thank you very much.

Guest: (long question in Hindi)



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (end)





750626SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.13-14

-

Los Angeles, June 26, 1975



Santoṣa: "To concentrate the mind, one must observe a life of celibacy and never fall down. Such a life of celibacy or brahmacarya is perfect. One should voluntarily give up sense enjoyment. One should control the mind and senses, give charity, speak truthfully, be clean and nonviolent. He should follow regulative principles and chant the holy name of the Lord. These practices certainly bring temporary purification. Thus they are like fire, for although fire clears away the dry creepers beneath the bamboo plant, the creepers grow back again at the first opportunity."



Prabhupāda:



tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā



*deha*-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā

dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ

kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api

*veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ

[SB 6.1.13-14]



*So this is first*-class human life. This should be the ideal of first-class human life. The first thing is tapasya, austerity, not extravagance. That is not human life. Tapasya. Tapasā means, generally, voluntarily accepting some inconvenience. And then brahmacarya. Brahmacarya means no sex life. According to Vedic civilization, the students, they are called brahmacārī. In student life there is no sex life. Then his brain will be finished. That is happening nowadays. From the student life they indulge in sex life. Therefore not very big men are coming now-because their brain substance is finished. So a brahmacārī is supposed to raise the semina to the brain, ūrdhvam anti,(?) not discharge, but keep it on the brain. Then their memory becomes very sharp. Once heard from anyone, he will exactly produce, without any forget. Where is that science now? There is no such thing.



*So to fulfill the human life aim of human life, we have to become first*-class human being. The first-class human being, ideal human being, is the brāhmaṇa. And the second class, the kṣatriya; the third class, vaiśya; *and fourth class, śūdra. So at the present moment, Kali*-yuga, kalau śūdrā-sambhavāḥ. In Kali-yuga there is no first class, second class, or even third class. All fourth-class men, śūdrā-sambhavāḥ. So therefore they are unable to perform all these tapasya or brahmacarya. Then what is their hope for progress? That has been enunciated in the śāstra, Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us the formula that,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*To make one's life successful, to reach to the goal of life, it is very difficult. [break] ...discharge all these principles, tapasā, brahmacarya. Śamo damaḥ titikṣa satyam. Satyam means truthfulness. One should be so truthful that if a rogue comes to him and if he asks, "What money you have got?" he will say, "I have got so much money." This is called satyam. He will not conceal even to the enemies. That is called truthfulness. Everything should be plainly and truthfully presented. These are satyam. And śaucābhyām, cleanliness. Cleanliness means if you go to the latrine, the injunction is that you will have to wash your hands, legs, so many times. Not with water, but with earth. Nowadays it is soap. So if we cannot wash our hands and legs for many times, at least we should wash once or twice with soap. This is called śaucam. A brahminical qualification is he is very neat and clean, three times taking bath, and keeping the body very neat, cloth, everything. Where he lives, his bedding, his place*-all must be cleansed. And yamena niyamena vā: sex control, mind control, and senses control by regulative principles.



*So we have to observe all these regulative principles if we want to become first-class man. And without becoming first-class man, nobody can understand what is God. That is not possible. Fourth-class man cannot understand. It is not possible. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. A brāhmaṇa, or the first-class man, is he because he knows Brahman. He knows Brahman, what is God-even not perfectly well, but Brahman, the impersonal conception of the Supreme. This impersonal conception of the Supreme Absolute Truth is also brahma-jñāna, but that is partial. God is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His form, His person... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "My dear Arjuna, you, Me, and all these men who have come here, we existed like this in the past." That means we are all individuals, because when Kṛṣṇa was speaking in the battlefield, He is person, and He was teaching Arjuna*-he is also person. And the soldiers and other kings, they are also all persons. So Kṛṣṇa says that "It is not that we are imperson in the past or we shall become imperson in the future." No. Just like, take another example, that before our birth, accepting this body, I was a person, you were a person. And according to our personal different activities, pious or impious, we have got this body. So I was person before the beginning of my this body, and after my death, I shall remain a person, and I shall accept another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So when I become imperson? Past, present, future, there are three different phases of time. So in the past I was a person, at present I am a person, and in future I shall remain a person. So where is the question of imperson?

*This is spoken by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā in the Second Chapter, that "My dear Arjuna, it is not that we did not exist in the past. We existed in this way, and we are existing now in the same way, and we shall exist." That means our personality is never lost. And therefore we see so many varieties of men. Each one is a person. You cannot find anyone exactly similar to the other, because everyone has got his personal propensities. And according to the personal propensities and desires, Kṛṣṇa is giving us different opportunities, and that is different body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Just like in the court, the..., everyone is judged as person, not wholesale. The judge not says that "Now all you have come here"-some of them are complainants and some of them are respondents-"so you stand together. I give this judgment." No. Everyone is personally judged. And everyone is given reward or punishment personally. So where is the question of imperson?

*And in the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God means He is also nitya, eternal, amongst the eternals. There are many... We living entities, we are many, plural number. Nityānām. Nityānām means plural number. And nitya, singular number. So God is singular number person, and we are plural number. We are many. God is one, but living entities are many. Not that God also is many. No. God may have many expansion*-that is another thing-but God is singular number. God is not plural number. Nityo nityānām. So what kind of singular number? That He is chief singular number. Just like leader. There are many followers. Take any example: in the class room or here, a teacher is one, but the audience they are many. Similarly, God is one, but the living entities are many. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). And what kind of living entity? Now, living entity means living entity, he is also living force. He is not dead. Just like just now we were taking that "God is dead." No. Nitya, cetana. Cetana means conscious, and nitya, eternal. We are also conscious and eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. It is not that after we have..., our body is destroyed, we become destroyed. No. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. These things we have learned from Bhagavad-gītā. This is the position. We are many, and God is one. So if we accept one God, then where is the chance of different religious system? God is one. God is neither Christian nor Hindu or Muslim or... No. God is God. Just like gold. Gold is gold. Either in the Hindu community, or Muslim community, gold is gold. Because gold is there in some Hindu community, nobody says "Hindu gold." Does anybody say, "It is Hindu gold" or "It is Christian gold"? No. Gold is gold. Similarly, God is one. There is no "Hindu God" or "Muslim God" or "Christian God." This is mistake. "We believe God in this way...," that is nonsense. No. God is one, and you have to see what is the characteristic of God. Just like when it is gold, everyone wants to see whether it is actually gold or imitation gold. That we have to see. There cannot be Hindu gold, Muslim gold, Christian gold. No. Simply you have to see whether it is actually gold, acceptable. That should be the subject matter of theology, to know actually what is God and to understand what is our relationship with God.

So that is stated in the Vedas, that God is also a living entity like us, as we are living entities, nityo nityānām. We are plural number; *He is singular number. Then why He is singular number? Why not plural number? And what is the difference between singular number or plural number? That is also Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: "That eko, that singular number is supplying all the necessities of life of all this plural number-that is God." He is maintainer, maintainer. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhā... We have got different types of demands on account of our different types of body. And who is supplying these necessities? That is God. That is God. Very simple definition: eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Find out somebody who can supply the necessities of everyone*-He is God. Is it very difficult to find out who is God? This is simple formula: eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. We become charitable persons, but have we got any means that "Anyone who comes, I can give charity"? No. That is not possible.

Therefore God's definition is given by the Parāśara Muni. What is that?

aiśvaryasya samāgrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

sad iti bhāgamgaṇa

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



This is definition. What is that? Aiśvarya means wealth, riches. Everyone has got riches, some money, either at home or in the bank. So you may have two millions dollars; I may have ten dollars; *you may have hundred dollars. Everyone has got some riches. That is admitted. But nobody can say that "I have got all the riches." That is not possible. If somebody can say that "I have got all the riches," he is God. That is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. Nobody has said in the history of the world. Kṛṣṇa said, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the enjoyer of everything, and I am the proprietor of all the universe." Who can say that? That is God. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya. Samāgra means total, not that partial, that "I have got so much. Now I have distributed." I do not wish to mention by name*-one artificial God, he was teaching his disciple, and the disciple was feeling electrical shocks. So unfortunately, I cannot give you electrical shocks. (laughter) You see? Electrical shocks, and he became fainted by electrical shock. And these are written publicly, and fools are accepting. Why teachers should give electrical shock? Where is that mentioned in the śāstra? (laughter) But these things are, bogus things are stated. Electrical shock. And when he fainted, then the God was sitting, and when he got his senses, then the disciple asked God, "Sir, why you are crying?" "Now, I have finished everything. I have given you everything." Just see. Does a teacher finishes everything by teaching his disciple? These things are going on. So Kṛṣṇa is not that kind of God, that "I have finished everything." Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. This is definition of God. God is so perfect and full that even if you take all His opulences, still, He is full. That is God. Not that "I have finished my stock."



*So intelligent man should learn what is God from the Vedic information. Don't manufacture God. Manufacture..., how we can manufacture God? That is not possible. So that is called mana*-dharma. By mental concoction, mental speculation, we cannot create God. Here is the definition of God, that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat [Īśo mantra 1]. Idaṁ sarvam. Sarvam means whatever you see. You see the big Pacific Ocean. That is created by God. It is not that He has created one Pacific Ocean, therefore His all chemicals, hydrogen and oxygen finished. No. There are millions and trillions of Pacific Ocean floating in the sky. That is God's creation. There are millions and trillions of planets floating in the sky, and there are millions and trillions of living entites, seas, and mountains, and everything, but there is no scarcity. Not only this universe, there are millions and trillions of universes. We get this information from the Vedic

*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnaṁ

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam aham...

[Bs. 5.40]



*Try to understand the opulence of God. Just like yasya prabhā prabhavato. Now, you can see. This is... Material science also accept that everything in this material world, they are generated by the heat and light of the sun. So as you have got experience, on account of the sunlight the whole universe is going on*-you have seen that machine, when that is heated, it is running-so similarly, the real shine is brahmajyoti, brahmajyoti, that impersonal Brahman. And in the impersonal Brahman there are... Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. There are millions of universes. As you have seen... You are daily seeing, on the sunshine there are millions and trillions of planets floating, on account of the sunshine. They are rotating, everything. Similarly, the original sunshine is brahmajyoti. What is that brahmajyoti? Yasya prabhā [Bs. 5.40]. It is the rays from the body of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, just like the sunshine is the rays of the body of the sun-god. That we can see. If you do not see sun-god, at least you see the sun planet. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there, and there is a Kṛṣṇaloka planet. And the Kṛṣṇaloka planet is distributing the shining. You see the sky is bluish because the rays of the body of Kṛṣṇa is also bluish. And that is reflected in each universe. Therefore we see the sky bluish, Kṛṣṇa's color.



*So in this way we have to understand what is God. God is not a petty thing, that He dies, or one is manufactured by meditation, he become God. This kind of God has no value. God is always God. Kṛṣṇa, when He was a child, He had no opportunity to meditate. He was a child playing on the lap of His mother. And when Pūtanā came and wanted to kill the child, the small child God, He killed Putana, a big demon. So even He was at that time three months old, still... And not only Pūtanā, many other demons. And then, when He was six or seven*-years-old boy, so at that time there was crisis in Vṛndāvana, and He lifted the Govardhana Hill with His finger. This is God. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). God has got unlimited strength. You have seen in Kṛṣṇa picture: Kṛṣṇa is killing so many demons. That horse demon? Kesi, Kesi. Kṛṣṇa simply pushed His hand in the mouth of the horse. Because to control a horse means he control his mouth; *then you can control the whole big animal. So immediately the horse came before Him, He pushed His hand within the mouth of the horse, and the horse began to feel it is red*-hot iron. So this is God. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ.

*So apart from we are not seeing personally, but we have heard it, but personally, at least, we can see one thing: how Kṛṣṇa is great. Because aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ, jñāna. Śrīya, beautiful. No more Nobody can be more beautiful than Kṛṣṇa. Śrīya, śriya means beauty. You see here Kṛṣṇa, how He is beautiful. So He does not become old. Nava*-yauvanaṁ ca. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. He is the oldest person because He has created everything, but He will never look old. You will never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as old man. These are the definition of God. God, nobody can be richer than Him, nobody can be stronger than Him, nobody can be more beautiful than Him, and nobody wiser than Him even. That proof we can see: Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago, and still Bhagavad-gītā is worshiped as the best book of knowledge. This is the proof. So God does not depend on anyone's proof. But if you want to prove whether He is God, you can get. That you can get.

*Therefore we should accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme God. It is stated in all śāstras, and Arjuna also, who listened Bhagavad*-gītā from Kṛṣṇa, he also accepted. After hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. So our process is to follow the predecessor. The Arjuna, he accepted. Not only Arjuna. "Arjuna may be His friend. He might have accepted his friend as God." No. Kṛṣṇa is accepted by the greatest learned scholar, Vyāsadeva, and greatest saintly person, Nārada. That is Vyāsadeva writes in his Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that "I have given description of different incarnation of God." He has given so many incarnation. At last, he concludes that "Although Kṛṣṇa came as incarnation, but He is not incarnation. He is the incarnate. From Him, all incarnations come." Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. As soon as you say "incarnation," the next question will be, "Whose incarnation?" That Vyāsadeva explains, that Kṛṣṇa's incarnation Kṛṣṇa is not incarnation. Kṛṣṇa is personally the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the statement of Vyāsadeva, the most learned. He is accepted the most, actually. Who can be more learned than Vyāsadeva in this material world? Nobody. You can see his writing, Bhāgavatam, how exalted, scholarly. Nobody can write such verses at the present moment. It is not possible. Each and every word is full of meaning and so nicely set up. Therefore it is said, vidvān cakre sātvata-saṁhitām: "The vidvān, the most learned Vyāsadeva, has given us the sātvata-saṁhitā."

So if we want to know, everything is there; *but to understand, that will require a separate brain. That is recommended here. You create your brain. Tapasā, first of all austerity. You cannot create your brain by doing nonsense things. That is not possible. You have to control: śamena damena, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. These are the process to create a brain to understand God. Otherwise it is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. It is simply laboring for nothing. So this is the recommended, that treatment. That is also not sufficient. In the last, Śukadeva gives an hint that "This kind of purification, by tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13], is like veṇu-gulmam ivānalaḥ." Veṇu-gulma, veṇu-gulma means the dried creepers and grass. You can set fire. In India or here also-I have seen in London*-they set fire, and all the dried creepers and grass become... But what is the purpose of saying veṇu-gulman ivānalaḥ? Veṇu-gulmam ivānalaḥ means that superficially we see that now it is burnt into ashes, but the root remains there. As soon as there will be rain, waterfall, they will come out again. So the whole process is how to become detached from this material world. So this, even if you practice this tapasya, it is not completely able to finish these attachments. Therefore it is said, veṇu-gulmam ivānalaḥ.

*So we can finish this material attachment only by worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ-prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*The practical example is here in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that our students, simply by executing devotional service to Vasudeva, they have become free from so many sinful activities. That is the particular. So this should be introduced, this system, so that people at the present moment, they may become purified and make their advance in progress to the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is back to home, back to Godhead. That is wanted. So na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know what is their self-interest, ultimate goal of... Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking by adjusting the external material things, they will be happy. No, that is not possible. Durāśayā. It is called durāśayā, hopeless hope. It is not possible. Dur means it will be very difficult to fulfill the āśayā, the hope, that "We shall be very happy in this world and enjoy senses without any interruption. Now let us make some United Nations' program and we will be happy." It will never be happy. Be sure.



Thank you very much. (end)



760514SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.13-14

-

Honolulu, May 14, 1976



Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Texts number thirteen and fourteen.



tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā



*deha*-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā

dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ

kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api

*veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ

[SB 6.1.13-14]



So, how to become advanced. These are the prescribed methods. Tapasā. Tapasya. Tapa means voluntarily taking some disadvantage. That is tapa. Tapa. Tapa means, just like if there is fire, so there is heat, but the method of tapasya is that during summer season they ignite some firewood all round and sit down. Already there is scorching heat, and still, all round fire, and one has to sit. These are some of the examples of tapasya. Similarly, in the winter season it is very cold: one has to go down the water up to neck. This is the meaning of tapasya, voluntarily accepting some severe condition of life.



*So in this age it is very difficult, but this is the meaning of tapasya, voluntarily accepting inconveniences. When there is cold, one has to take the help of heater, fire. No. No heater, no fire, but go deep into the cold water. Of course, it is very difficult in your country because the water is so cold, and if you go deep, immediately finish. (laughter) I have seen in New York. One dog, he jumped over*-immediately finished. I have seen it. That is actual fact. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind that these people in this age, they will not be able to undergo severe austerity. That is not possible. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. In this age every man is alpāyuṣaḥ. Alpāyuṣaḥ means very short-living. The limit is hundred years, but who is going to live hundred years? Nobody. If one is eighty, seventy years, it is considered... Within sixty, seventy years everyone finished. But the age limit is hundred years. So what tapasya he'll do? What meditation he will do? In the Satya-yuga, by meditation one could get perfection. Just like Valmiki Muni. He meditated for sixty thousands of years. Because in those days a man used to live for 100,000's of years. Gradually it is reducing. In the Satya-yuga man and woman used to live, human being, up to 100,000's of years. Then, next yuga, it was ten thousands of years, reduced by ten times. And then, next yuga, next millennium, it is one thousands of years. And now, in the Kali-yuga, it is one hundred years. So it is very difficult to perform tapasya. But the recommendation is there, tapasā brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13].

*So brahmacarya, tapasya begins-brahmacarya, celibacy, no sex life. That is the beginning of tapasya. Meditation means tapasya. So tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena [SB 6.1.13]. Śama, to control the senses, to keep in equilibrium. Senses may not be agitated. Damena, even it is agitated, by my knowledge I have to curb down. Just like if I become agitated by seeing a beautiful girl, or for woman, a beautiful boy... That is natural. Yuvatīnāṁ yathā yunor yunor yathā yuvaḥ(?). Young boy, young girl, they are naturally attracted. There is nothing surprising. But tapasya means that "I have taken vow, no illicit sex." That is knowledge. "Why? Even if I am attracted, I shall not do this." This is tapasya. And "Because I am now attracted, now we shall enjoy"*-that is not tapasya. Tapasya means even one is attracted, he should not act. That is tapasya. There may be some difficulty to control, but that should be practiced. It can be practiced. It is not very difficult. But one has to practice the determination: "Now I have taken vow before Deity because at the time of initiation, it is promised before the Deity, before the fire, and before the spiritual master, before the Vaiṣṇava, that 'I'll not have illicit sex.' That is promised. How can I break it?" This is tapasya. "I have taken vow before the Deity, before fire, before my spiritual master, before the Vaiṣṇavas, 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no drinking or intoxication, no gambling.' I have promised it. If I am gentleman, how can I break my promise?" This is called jñāna. With knowledge one has to respect. That is called tapasya. With knowledge. Otherwise, to become attracted, that is not unnatural. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to say... He was sannyāsī. He said that "Even if I see a doll made of wood, a beautiful woman, My mind becomes agitated." So what to speak of us? So this is the example. Caitanya Mahāprabhu giving some... To be agitated in the mind, that is not unnatural, but if you practice, then you'll not be agitated anymore. If you practice by your knowledge, then you'll not be agitated. That is called dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. You have to become dhīra.

*Dhīra and adhīra, there are two classes of men. One is sober. Even there is cause of agitation, still he remains firm. He is called dhīra. And adhīra means as soon as there is cause of agitation, he became a victim. That is called adhīra. So we have to become dhīra. We have been adhīra in so many different forms of life because I am coming to this human form of life after evolution of 8,000,000 forms of body. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa viṁśati. That is evolution. So after... Bahu sambhavānte. After many, many years I have got this opportunity. In other lower animal life I have enjoyed the senses in so many ways. So sense enjoyment is not very difficult. Even there... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. The hogs and pigs, they have got facility for sense enjoyment. They do not care even who is who. Even she is mother or she is sister or she is daughter, they will enjoy sex. That is hog life. You have seen. There is no discrimination. And the monkeys, they are enjoying sex life. So everyone enjoys sense life. So "Why? I have got this valuable life, human form of life. Why I shall become a living entity like hogs and dogs?" This is called tapasya. "Why I shall become hogs and dogs and again I shall put myself in the cycle of birth and death? I have got this life after so many evolutionary process. Why not practice little tapasya in this life?" This is knowledge. "If by practicing little tapasya, restraint, I can get relief from this repetition of birth and death, why shall I not do it?" This is knowledge. And if I again become victimized... The laws of nature is there. If you want, you can enjoy. Nature will give you. "All right, you want so much sex. All right, come on. Become a hog. Yes." So nature is ready. It is not very difficult. Therefore the śāstra says, "No, no, no. This life is not for becoming a hog and dog." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1].

*The whole world is working so hard. They are going to the office. They are going to the..., working hours to earn livelihood, but what is the pleasure? The pleasure is sex. That's all. Their ultimate goal is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So, one should consider, "The sex indulgence is given to the hogs and dogs, and for the same enjoyment I'll have to work so hard?" This is knowledge. "For same enjoyment? I have got this human form of life for understanding Kṛṣṇa, for understanding God, my position, what I am. I am not this body. I am spirit soul. I have been put into this body, and because I have been put into this body-the body is material*-it must finished. It must be finished." Anything, it has got six changes. Anything material, it has got birth, it has got growth, it has got aftereffect, then dwindles, and then finished, everything, anything you take, the material. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes. So I am eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. I do not die after this body is finished, and again I will have to... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. So this is knowledge. One has to always think of this. That is called tapasya.

*So a little... Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. This is śāstra, that "What is this sex life?" It is said, kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Gṛhamedhi. Gṛhamedhi means one who does not know what is the aim of life. Gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha. Gṛhastha means although he is living with wife and children, but he knows what is the aim of life. That is the gṛhastha āśrama. As the sannyāsī knows what is the aim of life, similarly, a gṛhastha also may know. So such gṛhastha, sex life is allowed, who knows the aim of life. And one who does not know the aim of life, simply enjoys sex, he is called gṛhamedhi. These two words are there. In Sanskrit literature every word has got particular meaning, particular thought. Therefore it is called Sanskṛta, most performed and purified literature, Sanskrit. Sanskrit means purified. Saṁskāra. Just like we offer saṁskāra at the time of initiation, purification. So our main problem is the sex life. That is... Because sex life is the basic principle of material life. Either you are human being or you are demigod or you are a bird, you are a beast, you are a fly, you are a fish, you are tree, plants-everything*-the basic principle of material life is sex. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etat tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ [SB 5.5.8]. Everything is there. You have got books. You study and follow the practice. Be little sober. It is not that you'll not be able. You'll be able. And Kṛṣṇa will help. As soon as you are very eager, then Kṛṣṇa will help. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10].

So therefore the Deity worship is there. Along with Deity worship we should always pray, "Kṛṣṇa, kindly save me from the pitfalls of māyā." He'll do it. But if we want to cheat Kṛṣṇa and cheat guru, then you'll be cheated. That's all. The guru will not be cheated, neither Kṛṣṇa will be cheated. You'll be cheated. That's all. If you want to be cheated, then do whatever you like and prolong your this term of repetition of birth and death. And if you want to stop it, then here, the tapasā brahmacaryeṇa ṣamena ca damena ca tyāgena [SB 6.1.13]. Tyāgena. This is also one of the tapasya. Don't keep with you anything, even... Then you will make plan: "Let me have illicit sex. Let me have intoxication." As soon as you have got money. Best thing is, as soon as you get money, immediately you spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Tyāgena, charity. Charity. Tyāgena means charity. Not that you starve. No. That kind of starvation... You keep yourself fit to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but don't keep much money. Immediately give in charity to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can take your charity as much as you can give.

Just like Bali, Bali Mahārāja. Bali Mahārāja, he secured the whole three worlds. He became the master of the three worlds, means the upper planetary system, down planetary system, middle planet. So, but he was a devotee also. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came to him as Vāmana.

chalayasi vikramaṇe balim adbhuta vāmana

*pada*-nakha-nīra-janita-jana-pāvana

keśava dhṛta vāmana śarīra

jaya jagadīśa...



*So, because he was very proud of his possession, so Vāmanadeva came to Bali Mahārāja: "Mahārāja, you are kṣatriya. You are very charitable, I have heard. If you can give me little land?" So Bali Mahārāja was very much pleased: "Yes, I will give You. How much land You want?" "Now, three feet." "Three feet? For this you have come to me?" "Yes, yes." So, "All right, I will give you three feet." So by one feet He covered the whole sky, and the other feet, he covered the whole down planetary system. So Bali Mahārāja understood that what kind of beggar is He. (laughter) Yes. So Vāmanadeva said, "My dear Bali Mahārāja, you promised three feet, but by two feet you have finished all your possession. So what about the other feet?" So Bali Mahārāja, he was a devotee. He said, "My Lord, don't worry. Still there is. It is my head. Place Your other feet on my head." So Vāmanadeva said, "Now you have purchased Me by your charity. I shall remain your doorkeeper." So if you make charity to Kṛṣṇa you can purchase Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Although Kṛṣṇa is all*-powerful proprietor, you can purchase Kṛṣṇa. So do that. If you have got any money, spend for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Thank you very much. (end)



701110SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.14

-

Bombay, November 10, 1970



(begins with short conversation with devotees)

Prabhupāda: (chants verse) It is recording? [break] We have to... Nobody is preparing that way. So when Guptas(?) took you from the train, where did you stay?



Yamunā: We were taken to a small mandira called Raghunātha(?) temple in old Delhi, right by (indistinct), and we stayed there for only one night. (month?)



Prabhupāda: So is that all right? No.



Yamunā: It is not first class, no.



Prabhupāda: Second class or third class?



Yamunā: Between second and third.



Prabhupāda: Intermediate.



Yamunā: Now Gurudāsa agrees third class.



Prabhupāda: Hm. Where it is?



Yamunā: It is on outskirts of Delhi but very reputable.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Yamunā: Very much respected



Prabhupāda: International academy. It is near (indistinct) Road?



Yamunā: I don't know, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: What is the address? Somebody knows. Eh? Where is Girirāja? He is not yet prepared? (door opens and closes) Acchā. (Hindi) [break]



*deha*-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā

dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ

kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api

*veṇu*-gulmam ivānalaḥ

[SB 6.1.13-14]



So persons who observe the principles of tapasya, austerities; brahmācārya, celibacy; controlling the mind; *controlling the senses-these are practiced*-this is called yoga system. Then, mahad api agham. Even he is subjected to the resultant action of great sinful life, he can vanquish it. The example is given just like to set fire in the field and all the dry plants and grasses immediately become burned. So by austerity, tapasya, brahmācārya, celibacy, these regulative principles can burn out the sinful reaction, not by the root. The example is given the dry vegetables or plants, they are burned from outside, but the root remains. The root is not burned. And the root remaining within the earth, as soon as there is favorable condition, there is some rain-again they come out. In other words, by tapasya, by austerity, by celibacy one can superficially get out of the sinful reaction, but because it is not rooted out, as soon as there is some opportunity, favorable conditions, again they come out.



Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī says,

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



He is giving another example, nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Fog, when there is big fog that you cannot see in front of you anyone, but as soon as there is sunlight the fog immediately disappears. Similarly, agham dhunvanti. Kecit kevalaya bhaktya vasudeva parayanaḥ [SB 6.1.15]. Simply by becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, one can immediately vanquish all sinful reaction. Just like the sun causes disappearance of the fog without any extra effort. You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness sincerely, seriously, then all the past reaction of your sinful activities will be vanquished. Now there are two kinds of vanquishing: one by setting fire on the dry plants, and the rising of the sun and fog, the fog disappearing. Again in the presence of sun there is no possibility of appearance of fog. That is not possible. But the dry plants burnt out, as soon as there is rainfall, it again comes out.



So by bhakti, by devotional service, one can completely root out the causes of sinful life. Not by otherwise. It is not possible.

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



na tathā hy aghavān rājan

pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ

*yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇas

*tat*-puruṣa-niṣevayā

[SB 6.1.16]



(door opens) (aside:) Yes, come on. Aiye. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī comments, na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ. Tapasya, austerity; brahmācārya, celibacy; controlling the mind; *controlling the senses*-they are also recommended, but they are not as strong means as devotional service. Na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādhibhiḥ. That aghavān, those who are sinful persons, they cannot become so much purified by observing austerity, penances, celibacy, as one can become completely freed from sinful reaction by becoming devotee. Yathā kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇas tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. One who has dedicated his life to Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇārpita prāṇa. Prāṇa means life, and arpita means dedicated unto Kṛṣṇa. Or kṛṣṇārpita, two things: one to dedicate his life to Kṛṣṇa, and at the same time tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. Tat puruṣa means the spiritual master who is a bona fide devotee of Kṛṣṇa. By serving him, niṣevayā.... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. We have to acquire two kinds of benedictions: one from Kṛṣṇa and one from the spiritual master. By serving the spiritual master we get the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. By serving the spiritual master we please Kṛṣṇa. We cannot please Kṛṣṇa directly. This is nonsense. It is not possible. Just like we cannot approach any big man without going through his secretary. Similarly, we cannot approach directly Kṛṣṇa without going through His bona fide representative. Tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā.



*Bhakti svapalpy pumarpi... (reading commentary) Tat-puruṣa-niṣevaya. Kṛṣṇa arpita prāṇa jñeya. Then again he says, sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke panthāḥ kṣemo akuto-bhayaḥ. Therefore this process of devotional service is without any danger, akuto-bhayaḥ. Akuto-bhayaḥ means without any fearfulness. You can go express. Just like a child taking shelter of his father, catching the hand of his father, crosses the street without any fear. There is no cause of fear. He knows, "My father is there." Similarly, by accepting this process of devotional service these things they do not consider, they do not.... Now yesterday the two boys, medical boys, they were arguing, "Why not other way?" Other ways are not so safe. Any other way is-jñāna-mārga, yoga-mārga, karma-mārga*-they are not safe. Exactly the same way-prāyaścitta, atonement. They are not safe. The only safest way is bhakti-mārga.

sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke

*panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto*-bhayaḥ

suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra

*nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ



*Nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ. Those who are devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, automatically they are suśīlāḥ, their characters are very nice, suśīlāḥ. Sādhava, and they are actually saintly persons. Others cannot be accepted because they have got chance of falling down, but those who are devotees, they cannot fall. Kṛṣṇa will protect them. Suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ.



prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni

*nārāyaṇa*-parāṅmukham

na niṣpunanti rājendra

*surā*-kumbham ivāpagāḥ



*Prāyaścittāni, the process of atonement or the process of austerity, penance, they are not safe. Kiṁ na nārāyaṇa*-parāṅmukham. They are not safe in this sense: because they are nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham. Parāṅmukham, devoid of devotional service. They are thinking by this practice of self-realization process, austerities, they'll be safe. But there is no sense of devotional service, such persons are not safe. Prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham, na niṣpunanti. Therefore they are not completely freed from the contamination. The example is given, na niṣpunanti rājendra surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ. Just like the pot which contains wine, they are even washed by the river they are not accepted, they are not purified. In India the process is, which is still, that big earthen pot which contains wine, they are thrown into the river, but nobody touches, although it is washed very nicely. Nowadays the situation is different. Formerly anything which contained wine, it is never purified. It is never to be touched. Surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ.



*sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*niveśitaṁ tad*-guṇa-rāgi yair iha

*na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān

svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa niṣkṛtāḥ



Śrīdhara Swami says, tad daiva suśīlāḥ kṛpalavaḥ sādhavaḥ niṣkāma. Suśīlāḥ means those who have received the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, suśīlāḥ, kṛpalavaḥ, or those who can bestow benediction to others, suśīlāḥ. Sādhava. Who are sādhava, sādhu? Niṣkāma, those who have no desire for material enjoyment. That is, he is called sādhu. And that niṣkāma means those who are devotee. Without being devotee, nobody can be niṣkāma, without any desires. Without any desires. Desire there must be. We cannot subdue our desires because we are living entities. Desire must be there. But desire for sense gratification has to be given up. That is called desireless. Otherwise it is not possible to become desireless. Desire must be there.



So sādhava. Sādhava, Śrīdhara Swami is giving note, niṣkāma, those who have no desire. So this desire..., niṣkāma means those who have no desire for sense gratification. They are sādhu. And who are they? Devotees. Akāma. Their other name is akāma. They have no desires. Personally they have no desires. Their only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is their only desire. That is natural. Because we are eternally servants of Kṛṣṇa, or God, our desire should be how to please God, how to please Kṛṣṇa. Just like obedient servant, sincere servant, they are always waiting for the order of the master, and they try how to please him, how to make him happy. Of course, this is not possible in this material world. Material world nobody is servant of anybody. Everyone wants to be master of another. Actually he does not serve anyone. He serves because he gets some money. So as soon as the money payment is stopped, immediately servant becomes disobedient. Therefore there is no service in the material world. It is exchange of money. The service is niṣkāma. That is brāhmaṇa, devotee. They do not expect anything from the Personality of Godhead. They want simply His satisfaction. Sādhava niṣkāmān yatra yasmin mārge. Therefore we have to follow mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], great personality, the path of the great personalities. The great personalities means the devotees. We have to follow the path of the devotees.

*(reads Sanskrit commentary) Śrīdhara Swami says that bhakti mārga, the path of devotion, is immune from all kinds of fearfulness because jñāna*-mārga, jñāna mārga, the path of knowledge is full of difficulties. Because I am trying myself, I have no protector. I do not know if I am in danger who will give me protection. Jñānīs, they try to understand the Absolute Truth by dint of their knowledge. So Śrīdhara Swami says they are atahaya. Atahaya means without any protection. If they make any mistake... Just like a little student they are learning something, but there is protection of the teacher. As soon as he commits a mistake, immediately the teacher rectifies: "My dear boy, do like this." But anyone who has no teacher, no protector, simply trying himself, if he commits any mistake there is nobody protecting him. Therefore jñāna-mārga, the path of knowledge, is risky. Similarly, the path of karma is also risky. Mataraka(?). If you prosecute the path of karma, there is envy between the karmīs. If you become greater than me in execution of your fruitive activities, I become envious of you: "Oh, this man is making so much progress in business or in some other way, in practice. I could not do." So I become envious. Similarly, if I advance, my friend becomes envious. So karma-mārga is the path of enviousness. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. The Bhāgavata is meant for persons who are absolutely free from enviousness.

*So both paths, karma*-mārga, jñāna-mārga, they are not very safe. So in Bhagavad-gītā you will find in the Seventh Chapter, asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1]. Asaṁśaya, without any doubt. Just like our path, devotional service, we are fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt. So others, they are finding who is God, what is God, they have got doubt. And they do not know also completely what is God. But we know what is God: Supreme Personality, Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Because we have taken the path of devotional service that with firm conviction, and we are making progress in that way. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1]. Mayā mano buddhiḥ. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone who, yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, by accepting a devotee, by taking shelter of a devotee, one who practices this yoga, Kṛṣṇa says in the Seventh Chapter, then "He can understand Me," asaṁśayam, "without any doubt," and samagram, "completely." Yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu. In other part.... Actually, there are so many parties, especially the impersonalist party, they are also searching after the Absolute Truth, but they have got only vague idea, not complete, perfect idea. It is saṁśayam, with doubts, and asamagram, not complete. That's a fact. They cannot give you any clear idea of the concept of God. That is not possible. And sādhu. The Bhagavad-gītā... Who is sādhu? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. One who is performing devotional service without any deviation, ananya-bhāk, undivided mind, simply unto Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu.

*So api cet su*-durācāro. If somebody says, "These devotee, these American and European devotees, we accept as sādhu, but they have got some bad habits." Suppose one sees, according to the European-American custom after eating they do not wash hands. That is, they are not practiced to that way. So similarly, if I see that "Here is an American devotee or European devotee, he ate but did not wash his hands, so he is not yet perfect," "No," Kṛṣṇa says. "No." Api cet suḍurācāro. This is a small fault that he has not washed his hands. But we should not neglect to wash our hands. If by mistake, if by forgetfulness I do that, that is excused. But not that because it is excused we shall follow..., we shall neglect the rules and regulations. But Kṛṣṇa says that even he is suḍurācāro, his behavior is not up to the standards, still he is sādhu. Still sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. He should be taken, accepted as sādhu. Because why? Because he has taken Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Without any deviation he is engaged in his service. That qualification makes him sādhu. It is not that by mistake, he commits some mistake in his behavior.

*So if the question is, then, "With misbehavior, how he can be sādhu?" Kṛṣṇa answers that, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac*-chāntiṁ nigacchati: because he has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa as the absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore very soon he'll be reformed, although in the, at the present moment he is not completely in sadācara platform. Still he should be accepted as sādhu because very soon he'll be completely reformed. The same thing Śukadeva Gosvāmī says: sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor niveśitaṁ tad-guṇa-rāgi yair iha. Anyone who has taken the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, sakṛn, manaḥ kṛṣṇa, and has dedicated his mind unto Kṛṣṇa, and one who is attracted by the transcendental qualities, na te yamaṁ pāśa bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān. You are assured that they will never be touched by Yamaraja or his assistants, tad-bhaṭān. Na te yamaṁ pāśa bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān svapne 'pi paśyanti. Not even dream they can see that "The Yamaraja's assistants are coming to take me." It is so much assured. All right. So have little kīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

*So some gentlemen were coming, and ladies. I think they are not prepared to hear these things. If you talk that "You are God, I am God," then they will like it. As soon as the real process of self*-realization, God-realization, is put before them, they are not agreeing.

*Yamunā: Guru Mahārāja, what chapter of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: This is Sixth Canto, First Chapter. This is also one part of tapasya, to come early in the morning. So they want everything very cheap. That is the falldown of India's position. So Mr. Pandiya?



Pandiya: Yes, sir.



Prabhupāda: What is your question, you can ask now.



Pandiya: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: God, you know the common definition is "God is all*-powerful." Mr. Marwar? God is all-powerful.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: That all-powerful. Now let us come to our own concept of all-powerfulness. We consider a rich man powerful, influential man powerful. Then a strong man powerful, a man of knowledge powerful. A man that is very beautiful, he is also powerful, or a woman is beautiful, she is powerful*-she attracts so many. In this way, when all the six opulences are together in fullness, he is God. Is it clear?



Pandiya: Oh, yes.



Prabhupāda: God means nobody can be richer than Him, nobody can be stronger than Him, nobody can be more beautiful than Him, nobody can be wiser than Him, and nobody can be influential than Him. That is God. When you find somebody that "Here is the richest man in the whole universe or in the whole creation. Here is the most beautiful man in the whole universe," in this way, when you compare the six opulences, then that you will find in Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present He exhibited this practically. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



Guest: (Hindi)



*Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Bhagavān is transcendental, above this universe. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: trai-guṇya-viṣayā vedā nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna. That nistrai-guṇya means nirguṇa. (Hindi) He has no qualities*-this is nonsense. When one is powerful, all-powerful, how he can think that He has no good qualities? Is it possible to think like that? That means He has no material qualities. When there is nirviśeṣa, when there are such description, "The Absolute Truth has no form," that means He has no material form. As soon as there is question of form, we think of form like you have got a form, I have got a form, he has got a form. Immediately we think of form like that. When Veda says "God is formless," that means He is not under the conception of form which you can conceive. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. His form, His form is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā, that aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. He has got form, but every part of His limb has got the power of other limbs. Just like I can see with the eyes only, but Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, can see with His fingers. I can eat with my tongue, with my mouth, but Kṛṣṇa can eat by seeing, by eyes. Therefore His form is not exactly like your form.



*That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. Because they see as a human being they commit mistakes and they say, "How it can be?" Just like Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "How can I believe that You delivered the yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god?" Arjuna was taking the position of ordinary man. Because our form, we have got this form in our previous form, body, we are existing because we are eternal, but we don't remember. We don't remember what I was in my previous life. So this form is distinct. Kṛṣṇa's form is distinct from this form. He hasn't got a form like this useless form. Therefore He is formless. Not that He hasn't got form. His form is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. His form is eternal, sat; cit, full of knowledge; and blissful. Our this form is not blissful. Why you are covering the body? Because it is painful. Unless what is the use of covering? Similarly during summer season we have to take out all this...

Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. Due to this form you are always in suffering. Adyātmika ādibhautika. But because they are in māyā they are thinking they are happy. Kṛṣṇa's form is not like that. He is always ānandamāyā. We see Kṛṣṇa's form in a picture. He is always happy. Therefore His form is not like our form. Therefore indirectly it is said "formless." His qualities are not exactly like our qualities; *therefore He is called nirguṇa. Apāṇi pāda grahītā. Just like Veda says that He has no hands, no legs, but still He accepts the sacrifices which you offer Him. How He accepts? Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He has no eyes but He sees everything. How you can adjust it? Two contradicting things. He has no eyes but He sees. Upadraṣṭā anumantā. So His words are there in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Your conception of eye, that if God has no eye then how He can see? Is it not the next question? But He sees. That means He has eyes which is not exactly this eye. Therefore you can say He has no eye.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So another place you will find, acakṣuḥ. But here it is said that He has thousands of eyes. So how you can adjust? That means His eyes are not exactly like our eyes. I cannot see if this room is dark*-so much defective are my eyes. But His eyes are not like that. Even there is darkness or light, He can see.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes, He has got variety. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā also it is said, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam. Just like Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, showed His viśva-rūpa. So ananta, cakṣur ananta. (Hindi) So your question is clear? He has got eyes, He has got form, He has got qualities-but not exactly the qualities which you have got, the form which you have got, the eyes which you have got. No. Then it will be avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. As soon as we think that "Kṛṣṇa is like me. He has got a body like me," that is mūḍhā, gadā. That is the conclusion of the rascals. That is not the conclusion of a man who is in knowledge.



So these nirākāra vādīs, they are..., they cannot think of that there can be any eye which can act from Vaikuṇṭha, which we cannot ascertain how far it is, still you can keep traveling. We can simply think of that "I can see three yards; *therefore Kṛṣṇa can see also three yards." But the actual fact is Kṛṣṇa can see you from any distant place. Sarvata pāṇi pādas... sarvato. He has got eyes everywhere. That eyes is not exactly your eyes. Therefore it is called apāṇi acakṣur. Acakṣur means his eyes are not like your eyes. So as soon as we consider "Kṛṣṇa like me, Kṛṣṇa like me," that is natural for a foolish person. That is the first consideration. Because they cannot adjust that God can have eyes different from me, therefore they take nirviśeṣa, nirākāra. Nirākāra means He has no form, He has no eyes, no leg. If I say that God has no leg, no eyes, it is defaming. He has got the brilliant eyes. Yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Here is one of the eyes of Kṛṣṇa: the sun. When as soon as they declare "God has no eyes," if we take in that way that we cannot see, He has no eyes, then it is blaspheme.

Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Who says? Who says?



Guest: Others.



Prabhupāda: Who says?



Guest: (indistinct) in the Bible.



Prabhupāda: What does it say?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Not without?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Then why stressing within?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Then why you are stressing on the point within? He is without. Without; *within also. That is God. That Kṛṣṇa says: sarva*-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the, everything," without... Antar-bahiḥ. So He is both inside and outside. Why you are stressing on inside only? One-sided.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Why? Why not outside? Suppose if one cannot begin from inside, then his beginning is not substantial? If it says by Kṛṣṇa Himself that sarva*-loka-maheśvaram, "I am the proprietor of all planets," so if I say "This planet is Kṛṣṇa's property," what is the wrong there? What is the wrong? Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhir prakṛti me, bhinna me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. "This earth, water, fire, everything, is My energy." So if I say "This water is Kṛṣṇa's, the fire is Kṛṣṇa's," what is the wrong there?



Guest: What is the light?



*Prabhupāda: What is the light? It is common sense. The sea water, Kṛṣṇa says, "It is Mine." And if I say, "The water is Kṛṣṇa's," what is the wrong there? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "This bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, this bhūmir, this pṛthvī, is Mine." So if I say that "Land is Kṛṣṇa's," then what is wrong there? Then why should I go to inside? Outside (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa's property. Why you bother for inside? Inside is very difficult to understand, but outside I can see directly. But I see it, "Oh, it is mine. It is my land. It is my house. It is my property." Therefore that is wrong. As soon as you see "It is Kṛṣṇa's," that is perfection. Why you bother about inside? Why don't you see outside? This outside whose property it is? Kṛṣṇa has simply hidden Himself inside and He is not outside? Inside He is also. Ṝśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. That's nice. But why not outside? Then what is this outside? That is also explained by Kṛṣṇa: "It is Mine." So inside and outside you have to see. Any man can see outside. Any child, if I say, if I teach a child, "Well, this everything you see, it is Kṛṣṇa's," what is the wrong there? This tape recorder is Kṛṣṇa's, this microphone is Kṛṣṇa's, this fire is Kṛṣṇa's. What is the wrong there? Kṛṣṇa has kindly given me. So I should feel obliged, "Kṛṣṇa, You are so kind that You have given this fire so I am not suffering." Is that not Kṛṣṇa consciousness? We want to teach that. Not a bogus thing, "I am seeing within Kṛṣṇa." Why not outside? What is the wrong there? Tell me what is. Is it clear or not? If you have doubt, you go on questioning.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: This is easier process. "This child belongs to Kṛṣṇa. He has kindly given me prasādam." This is not easier? Which is easier?



Guest: That is a particular kind of approach of...



Prabhupāda: Eh? It is not a fact?



Guest: It's a fact.



Prabhupāda: But it is not easier? If you teach one child that "If you meditate upon Kṛṣṇa within," that is easier? Or if you say that "The fire which you are cooking on, this is Kṛṣṇa's"? Which is easier? So why you become more than child? You should remain always child, then you will get knowledge, real knowledge. That is the mistake. "I am now grown up. I cannot accept as child." What is the difference between child? A child also learns ABCD and a grown up man also uses ABCD. In what sense he is grown up? The ABCD is there. But when you are grown up can you give up ABCD? Can you give up ABCD when you are grown up? What do you mean by grown up? What is the difference between child and you? You also use ABCD, he also uses ABCD. But his knowledge of ABCD is not so perfect as yours.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, actually.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. We should remain child. But they are going to become Kṛṣṇa. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. If you remain a child of Kṛṣṇa, that is real sense. And as soon as I want to become Kṛṣṇa, that is rascaldom. Do you accept this or not?



Guest: No, no...



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is rascaldom. We want to stop this rascaldom from this world. That is our movement. We want to remain a child eternally of Kṛṣṇa, protected by. That is our mission. Because you cannot become Kṛṣṇa at any time. How you can become? It is false endeavor to try to become Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva... What is that verse? Mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ jīva loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]? What is that? You know this verse? What is that? Just recite.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: No, you recite this verse. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa is saying that "The living entities are My part and parcels eternally." Sanātanaḥ. So how you become equal to Kṛṣṇa? Part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. So if you are eternally part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, how you become equal with Kṛṣṇa? Simply by artificial endeavor you become one with Kṛṣṇa? That oneness realization means oneness of quality, not of quantity.



Guest: (indistinct) ...merge into Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Guest: When you merge into Kṛṣṇa, all this merges into Kṛṣṇa, then...



Prabhupāda: Merges?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: First of all, you are part. Suppose you are part, a screw. You are set in the machine. Does it mean that you become machine? Does it mean that you become machine? You are a screw, you are a part of the machine. Now you are aloof from the machine. Now when somebody comes and he again screws, it will be machine. The machine's part is complete and you are also complete.



Guest: (indistinct) ...to merge into that?



Prabhupāda: Merging means this. Just like the machine merges with the machine..., a screw merges with the machine, but still a screw remains the screw and the machine remains the machine. But as soon as they are mixed together the screw has value and the machine is complete. But not that the screw becomes the machine or the machine becomes screw. Is it not?



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: So merging means that the machine and the screw, some screw being slackened it has fallen down on the ground, so so long it is out of the touch of the machine it is useless. It has no value. So merging into the Supreme means your value is now useless without being merging into the Supreme. And as soon as you become adjusted with the Supreme your original value is revived. That is real meaning of merging. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad*-anantaram. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā. When one understands Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvata. Tattvata means in truth. Then he is allowed to enter or merge. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad-anantaram. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. That also, that entrance is allowed by bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Tattvato jñātvā. You can understand Kṛṣṇa in truth by devotional service. Not by any other means. Suppose you are a big lawyer. I want to make friendship with you, I want to know about your inside life. That I can know by knowing you completely, and by satisfying you someway or other, by serving you. Then you: "Oh my dear sir, you want to know me. All right. This is this." Similarly, bhakti means service. You have to please Kṛṣṇa, then you can know Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will say. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. "Those who are always engaged in love and affection." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam, "I say unto Him, I give him intelligence." Not to ordinary persons. Those who are actually engaged in the service of the Lord, he can get instruction from Kṛṣṇa. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā. And when he gets instruction fully and he is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, viśate tad anantaram, then merging question comes. Without understanding... Without clear understanding of Kṛṣṇa where is the question of merging? Simply imagining that I am merge into Kṛṣṇa? No. That is not possible. You should know first of all what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. Then there is question of merging. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. Therefore this merging process takes place after many, many births. Is it not? So we first of all have to understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. If he has vague idea of Kṛṣṇa, vague idea of... Where is the question of merging?



Guest: And that we understand by service.



Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, that service. Yes, service. Therefore only by devotional service you can understand Kṛṣṇa. There is no other way. That I have explained, bhaktyā. Bhaktyā, by bhakti you can become perfect, you can understand Kṛṣṇa, God, and you can enter into the kingdom of God, make your life perfect. Only bhakti. There is no compromise. One who says that there are so many other ways, any way... Especially this Ramakrishna Mission, that whatever way you accept, that is complete. No. Only. That is the recommended process. Bhaktyā māṁ abhijānāti yāvān... [Bg. 18.55]. In the *Vedas*, in the *Purāṇas*, in the Bhāgavata, in.., everywhere. That is the process. Simply by devotional service you can understand God. Otherwise it is not possible. So is it becoming clear?



Guest: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Don't keep yourself in doubt. So long you are in doubt you go on searching.



Guest: No, no, I... (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. One difficulty is that we go to some saintly person, we hear and we challenge whether the saintly person corroborated my idea. If he does not, then he's not good.



Guest: That is not...



Prabhupāda: If it is against my conviction, "Oh, he is not good."



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking not of you. I know what you are doing. But we should corroborate. But as a preacher we should simply speak the real truth. There is no question of corresponding with your ideas and another idea, no. We... Whatever we know, whatever we have heard from our authorities we'll speak. That's all. It may be somebody may know better than me. That is another thing. But I have to present what I have learned from the authority. That's all. And our authority is Kṛṣṇa, mainly. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upa... That is the spiritual master. Who does not add or subtract from the talks of Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. One who adds and subtracts according to his whims, he is not spiritual master. He is not bona fide spiritual master. "I, my opinion..." "I give this interpretation..." He is not authorized. You are lawyer, you know better than me. In your law court you cannot change the law by your opinion. That is not possible.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but that is judged by the expert lawyer that your interpretation is right. And when interpreted. Not ordinarily interpret everything. When it is not distinct. The law point, when it is not distinct then interpretation required. When it is distinct, is there any necessity of interpretation? It is clear. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God. I am the Supreme." So how you can interpret that "No, no, not Kṛṣṇa. Something within Kṛṣṇa." Dr. Radhakrishnan says like that. Yes. That is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad... [Bg. 18.65].



Guest: That is something within Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: That is his idea, foolish idea. Because he is nirviśeṣavādi, he cannot accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, therefore how he can avoid the version of Kṛṣṇa unless he pushes something extra out of his foolishness? And there are foolish persons, they'll say, "Oh, here is Dr. Radhakrishnan says." The intelligent person will see why this foolish person introduces something else? Here is the clear... Kṛṣṇa says, "Just become My devotee." And why he introduces somebody else? But less intelligent persons cannot.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. If you have got Dr. Radhakrishnan's book I will show you.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go to the market you can purchase one copy of Bhagavad*-gītā of Gita Press. Gita Press. With Rāmānuja commentary.



Guest: Rāmānuja.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That will help you.



Guest: That is English?



*Prabhupāda: No, Sanskrit*-Hindi. Rāmānuja-bhāṣya. Yes.



Guest: Rāmānuja means the old (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: What is that? Rāmānuja*-bhāṣya? Oh, he has got this.



Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Revatīnandana: I was looking at the *Gītā* yesterday. There is a verse in the Sixth Chapter where Kṛṣṇa says that "The yogi who knows that I and the Supersoul are one and always worships Me in that way (indistinct) that when the yogi sees Lord Kṛṣṇa as Viṣṇu within the heart, that would appear that that is actually Bhagavān realization because Lord Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa are the same so it would be Bhagavān. So what is the distinction between Paramātmā realization and Bhagavān realization?



Prabhupāda: Bhagavān realization is complete. Paramātmā realization is partial.



Revatīnandana: Partial.



Prabhupāda: Partial.



Revatīnandana: Is that realizing knowledge without realizing it's coming from God?



Prabhupāda: No, the realization of existence of God everywhere, that is Paramātmā realization.



Revatīnandana: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: That is called Paramātmā.



*Prabhupāda: That is Paramātmā realization. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He is situated in everyone's heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He is within the universe and He is also within the atom. That is Paramātmā realization. Everywhere, all-pervading. Akhilātma-bhūto. Goloka eva nivasaty [Bs. 5.37]. Although He is situated in His Goloka Vṛndāvana-dhāma, He is everywhere. That everywhere aspect is Paramātmā. And that Goloka Vṛndāvana-sthiti is Bhagavān.



Devotee: When a person becomes Bhagavān realized, is Supersoul in his heart (indistinct) form?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38].



Devotee: Also I was told by one devotee, a person working for Lord Caitanya, Lord Caitanya will appear as Supersoul to him (indistinct) this happen?



*Prabhupāda: Well, Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. If you see Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya the same, or Viṣṇu. It doesn't matter. Viṣṇu*-tattva.



Revatīnandana: (indistinct) ...Paramātmā realized in that way.



Prabhupāda: Yogis, yogis , they realize Paramātmā.



Devotee: And they're completely satisfied in that way.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yogis, they see Bhagavān as Paramātmā. Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. So all of them are on the platform but realization different. Gradually develop. Brahman realization is also spiritual realization. Paramātmā realization also spiritual realization and Bhagavān realization is also spiritual, but the perfect spiritual realization is Bhagavān realization. It includes Paramātmā and Brahman, everything.



*Devotee: In the Bhāgavatam it tells about Bhīṣmadeva,. Bhīṣma? He was worshiping Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa and when Kṛṣṇa came to (indistinct) ...Kṛṣṇa appeared in His four-armed form and then...



Prabhupāda: He knew there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Nārāyaṇa because he was in perfect knowledge. Why Bhīṣma? Everyone of us. You do not know?



*Revatīnandana: Bhīṣma was more attracted to four*-armed form.



Prabhupāda: That is, that is... Some devotee is worshiper of Viṣṇu, some devotee is worshiper of Kṛṣṇa.



Revatīnandana: Their constitutional nature is that way.



Prabhupāda: That is rasa. He likes this form. Just like Hanumān said that "Although I know Rāma and Kṛṣṇa are the same, still, I want to see Rāma." We also. Although we know Rāma and Kṛṣṇa the same but we want to see Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee: Tulasi dāsa said that he wanted to see Rāma.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is devotee's inclination. That we must have. Just like the gopīs were searching Kṛṣṇa and they saw that Kṛṣṇa sitting in one place as four*-handed Nārāyaṇa. They offered respect, "Oh, He is Nārāyaṇa. We don't care for Him." (laughter) "We don't care for Him." But they offered respect, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa, namaskara. But we want Kṛṣṇa." And when Rādhārāṇī came, Kṛṣṇa wanted to remain Nārāyaṇa, He could not. Rādhārāṇī's desire is so strong that Kṛṣṇa could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. He became Kṛṣṇa. You see? So somebody is offering us a little piece of land. Sak... Saket.(?)



Guest: Saket.(?) It is good quarter.



Prabhupāda: Saket(?). It is good quarter. So why not accept that land and immediately have our building.



Guest: (indistinct) say about four o'clock. (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yesterday there was a meeting. There is a hope of getting 87 life members. So if you get some life members, say 50, then we can have immediately one center.



Guest: But anyhow...



Prabhupāda: No, either we purchase or we invest (indistinct) but we require some life members.



*Guest: (talks about making some appointment at between four and four*-thirty)



Prabhupāda: But at that time somebody comes to see me. Somebody comes to see me and talk with me.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: All right. If you can make some life members.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: You are trying for that?



Guest: Yes.



Prabhupāda: All right. All right.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: So Maharani has got many buildings also, I see.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: She's American.



Guest: She's American.



Prabhupāda: She was born in India?



Guest: No, she was born in America. She was the daughter of (indistinct). Her father owned (indistinct) companies (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: She has culture. Just like there is one, another American woman in Bombay, Mrs. Kwaliya(?).



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. She's American (indistinct) a Parsee, a big businessman.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: So you are Mr. Panday. You know him? He is also advocate. (Indian men converse) Yes. In devotees' association everyone is blessed. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt mama virya saṁvido. There is some enlightenment.



Guest: May I sing one bhajana?



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Guest: (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: No, Hare Kṛṣṇa. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It may not be melodious but we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



(Indian man starts singing Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, coughs and stops) All right, don't take now(?). You want water? Eh? Give this glass. Come on. [break] ...nāmaiva eva kevalam kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. There is no mention that it should be chanted lowly. So how you can say it is gupta? It is not gupta.

Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: This is also Purāṇa says. Especially it is harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21], not gupta. That is in the Kali*-yuga it should be openly chanted and we have to follow our predecessor, Haridāsa Ṭhākura, nāmācārya.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: [break] When we chant, when we utter the bīja mantra



*that we utter loudly. That is required. That is japa. So this mantra is mahāmantra and it should be chanted loudly, or as you like. There is no such restriction. Niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija*-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. (Hindi) And we have to follow the great personalities. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was chanting very loudly; Caitanya Mahāprabhu chanted very loudly. So what more evidence you want? My Guru Mahārāja chanted loudly, we are chanting loudly. Whole business finished. (chuckles) Is that all right? Eh?

Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Our process is very easy. We have to see whether my Guru Mahārāja, his Guru Mahārāja has followed this. Then there will be no more doubt. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. We receive things by paramparā system. Mahājano yena gataḥ. Sādhu mārgānu-gamanam. We have to follow the footsteps of sādhu.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Even if I am not well conversant with the *Vedas* and *Purāṇas*, if I see that my spiritual master is doing that, that's sufficient.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So karma*-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa... We say karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakali visera bandha. They are all pots of poison. Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakalī viṣera bāṅdha. You understand? All of them are pots of poison. Amṛta baliyā yebā khāya. One who accepts this viṣa bandha, this poison pot, as amrta, as nectar, then what is the result? Nānā yoni brahman kare. The result is that he will continue with the...



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Ah, that business will go on. Nānā yoni brahman kare kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. When there is question of various types of body, it may be I can get the body of hog, then I have to eat stool. By karma*-kāṇḍa I become so much abominable because nānā yoni brahman kare, there is no guarantee.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. But he was the king, he had to perform this karma*-kāṇḍa for the prajā. Yes. That is according to the Vedic principle. So karma-kāṇḍa for ordinary man it is not condemned, but those who are in devotional service, they do not require the guidance of karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kāṇḍa. Therefore sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. All dharmas, they are in karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. And bhakti is jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167].



anyābhilāṣitā śūnyaṁ

jñāna karmādy anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanam...

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*So bhakti is above karma*-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa. Rather bhakti should not be tinged or polluted by karma-kāṇḍa conception.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakti. Rasa (indistinct) Bhagavan... Raso (indistinct) Similarly, bhagavān, nāma. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. Rasa-vigrahaḥ. Yes.



Revatīnandana: That is why Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "Give up all varieties of religiousness and just surrender to Me." All these other paths...



*Prabhupāda: They are duality, karma*-kāṇḍa, jñāna-karma. Karmīs, they are after enjoying this world and jñānīs they are after renouncing this world. But you haven't got to enjoy Kṛṣṇa's property, neither you have to renounce Kṛṣṇa's... The property is not yours, then how you can renounce? What is the meaning of your renouncement? If the property is not yours, then how you can accept it as your enjoyable thing. That is karma-kāṇḍa. And how you can reject it? That is jnana-kāṇḍa. So the best thing is to know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa and it should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes, karma*-kāṇḍa is the lowest thing. When they are fully under the concept of this body, that is karma-kāṇḍa. And when one is transferred to the mental platform, that is jnana-kāṇḍa. And when he's transferred to the spiritual platform, that is bhakti.



Guest: (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (end)





710803SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.15

-

London, August 3, 1971



Prabhupāda:



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇaḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskarā

[SB 6.1.15]



*This is a discussion between Śukadeva Gosvāmī and Mahārāja Parīkṣit. The question was that "Why people are suffering in different types of hellish condition of life, and how they can be delivered?" Parīkṣit Mahārāja heard from Śukadeva Gosvāmī that there (are) different kinds of hellish condition of life according to different types of sinful activities. So in this material world everyone is implicated or involved in some sort of sinful life. Just like in the prison house. One may be a first*-class prisoner, just like sometimes big politicians, they are put into first-class prison arrangement. A second-class prisoner, a third-class prisoner, there are. But as soon as we understand this man is in the prison or prisoner, it should be understood that he's criminal. He has committed some criminal activity; *therefore he is in prison. Now, you can compare between the first*-class prisoner or third-class prisoner, that is another thing. But they're all prisoners. They're undergoing the duration of prison life. [break]



*Anyone who is in this material world, he may be Brahmā or a small, insignificant ant, it is to be understood that he's sinful. It doesn't matter whether he is Brahmā or an insignificant ant. Everyone has got a different type of body according to the desires of sinful activities. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is stated, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. At the time of death the situation of mental situation, according to that mental situation he gets the next body. How? The example is: just like air passing over a nice rose garden. The air is carrying the flavor of the rose garden. And if the air is passing through some filthy place, stool, urine, then it carries the smell of stool and urine. The air is pure, but according to the blowing of the air under certain situation, it is carrying the flavor or smell, a bad smell or good smell. Similarly, we spirit souls, we are all parts and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Therefore, qualitatively we are one. If God is gold, then I am also gold. How can I be otherwise? Because I am part and parcel. If God is iron, then I am also iron. That is my position. But as I am carrying different airs by my association with this material nature, I am getting a different body. It is very simple to understand. We are getting different bodies, that's a fact. Even in our present life we have passed through so many different bodies: a baby's body, a child's body, a boy's body, young man's body. All those bodies are gone. Now I am undergoing in an old man's body. Similarly, when this body will be useless for any purpose, then I accept another body. This is called transmigration of the soul. So for another body, that will be created according to the mental situation we made here at the present body-just like the same air passing through rose garden and air passing through a toilet room.

*Therefore, this human form of body is especially meant for creating a favorable situation so that when we pass through this body or we leave this body and we accept another body, we'll get exact a body like Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to change the consciousness of the people so that this preparation will help him to get exactly a body like Kṛṣṇa in next life, and he may dance with Kṛṣṇa in rasa dance. That is our propaganda. Body you'll get. That's a fact. Just as you are getting one body after another in this life, similarly, tathā dehāntara*-prāptir, similarly another change of body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Those who are in the knowledge, they're not surprised. They know what kind of body. "My father left this body; *now he has accepted another body." He can understand what kind of body he has. How? Just like when you see a friend going away to other place by plane, you know, "This plane is meant for..." Just like I came from New York yesterday to London. So everyone knows that I have gone to London. How? They are not seeing me, but from the evidences of the ticket, of the aeroplane and everything, they know certainly, "Swamijī has gone to London." Similarly, if you know the things right, you can know also "Where this man is going after death." How you gan know? That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: [Bg. 14.18] "Those who are situated in the modes of goodness..." There are three qualities in the material world: the quality of goodness, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance. So, if you know somebody that he is in the quality of goodness, then you can understand, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā [Bg. 14.18]. Those who are in the quality of goodness, they are being promoted to the higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. And those who are in the modes of passion, they remain in the middle planetary systems. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: and those who are associating very much abominable condition of life, they go adhaḥ, downward. So we can understand from the śāstras. Therefore people has to be taught to be situated in the modes of goodness. At least, he will be guaranteed to get a life in the higher planetary system, if not liberated. That is Vedic civilization.

*The whole Vedic civilization is to elevate people. There are two kinds of systems in the Vedas: pravṛtti*-mārga and nivṛtti-mārga. Because we are all here criminals. Criminal means we have come here within this material world with a purpose to enjoy to the fullest extent. Don't you see? Anywhere you go, people are struggling so hard because the idea is that "I shall be greater than him" or "I shall be very great." "I shall be minister," "I shall be president," "I shall be big merchant," "I shall be very big leader." "How I can be bigger?" When he fails everything, then he thinks, "Now I shall become God." This is going on. So up to the understanding to become God is materialism. All endeavors up to the point of becoming God is materialism. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You cannot be happy by all these religious systems." Religious system, there are two kinds of religious systems. Some of them are pravṛtti-mārga, increasing the path of enjoyment, sense enjoyment. That dictates that "You come to the heavenly planet. You'll have ten thousands of years duration of life and very beautiful women to enjoy. Very nice garden, and drinking soma-rasa." So this is called pravṛtti-mārga. And nivṛtti-mārga means a little more advanced, when one understands that there is no actual happiness in this way, then he says, "This is all false." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The world is false. Now let me search out Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. But... That sort of brahma-jijñāsa is called nivṛtti-mārga, negativating this path of enjoyment. But śāstra says that simply by understanding that "This is false, and I'll have to become away from these false engagements," so without knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, such elevators, they become impersonalists and voidists, to make negative this material enjoyment.

*So we are manufacturing so many religious system on these two platforms. One platform is how to enjoy to the fullest extent, and another platform is how to become zero, voidism. But actually, neither you are enjoyer, nor you are zero. Both of them are false. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that any religious system on the basis of this renunciation or enjoyment... When we take this material world as fact, that means we want to enjoy it. And when are frustrated then we want to make zero. So actually, it is neither zero, nor there is any cause of frustration. You have to simply to take to the right knowledge. The right knowledge is given in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says,

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*If you simply understand that Kṛṣṇa is the only enjoyer, then your propensity to become false enjoyer will be vanquished, that "I am not enjoyer. Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer." Then there is no question of renunciation also. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram. And He says that "I am the proprietor of all planetary systems." Loka. Loka means universe. Then what you have got to renounce? If Kṛṣṇa or somebody is proprietor of something, what is the meaning of your renouncement? And if He is the only enjoyer, then what is the meaning of you are enjoyer? So if you enjoy, then you become a thief. And if you renounce, you become a pretender. Because we have nothing to renounce, and you cannot enjoy other's property. This is your position.



*So one who knows this perfectly well, he's in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, when we engage ourself in enjoying other's property... Because Kṛṣṇa's property, how you can enjoy? That means you become criminal. Just like in the modern state, or any state, if you want to enjoy other's property, then you are a thief. That is the statement given in the Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: [Īśo mantra 1] everything belongs to God. Yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat. Anything, anywhere in this universe, it belongs to God. "Then? How I can enjoy? I have to live. If everything belongs to God..." Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. "Yes, you can enjoy." Just like the father in a family. Father is very rich. Actually, the proprietor is the father, but the enjoyers are the sons. Similarly, whatever there is, it is the property of God. But because you are all sons of God, you have got the right to enjoy the property of the father. There is no denying. But you cannot enjoy the property of your other brother. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever the father says, "My dear boy, you enjoy this," you be satisfied with that. Don't try to encroach upon others', other brothers' property. Then you'll be criminal. You enjoy. Kṛṣṇa has give you sufficient. Kṛṣṇa is not poor. Sarvaiśvarya... Ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. So if you remain satisfied what is given to you by Kṛṣṇa and remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "My father is so kind, my father is so rich, so let me abide by the orders of my father and live peacefully," then the world becomes peaceful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very scientific and authorized. But as soon as we want to encroach upon others' property, to enjoy more than it is allotted to me, that is criminal.

*So in order to become free from this criminality, there are so many prescriptions in the śāstras. They're called tapasya. The beginning is the tapasya. Tapasya means just like a thief wants to steal others' property, but if he thinks at the same time, "No, no, it will be criminal. Father has said it is criminal. I shall not steal others' property," this is tapasya. Because I have got the inclination to steal, to usurp other things, but if I restrain myself by the order of father or the śāstras, the laws... Just like a thief. He knows that if he steals, if he takes others' property, he'll be arrested and he will be punished. But he has got that bad inclination. That is called pāpa*-bīja. The śāstras, they prescribe different types of atonement for person who has committed criminal activity. The criminal activities is that if you encroach upon others' property, others' right, that is criminal. Tena tyaktena... You should be satisfied whatever Kṛṣṇa has allotted to you. Therefore we are training our devotees to take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has willfully left after His eating, we take it. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He keeps the prasādam as it is. Because He's pūrṇa. He's not hungry. He's feeding millions of living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So He's not hungry. Neither whatever you are offering to Kṛṣṇa, it is your property. It is Kṛṣṇa's property. You cannot manufacture fruits, flowers, grains, or milk, or anything else. Anything eatable you cannot manufacture in your factory. That is Kṛṣṇa's manufacture. Therefore, actually, it is Kṛṣṇa's property. Simply you have to acknowledge: "Kṛṣṇa, You are so kind. You have given so many things for our eating. First of all, You taste. Then we shall take it." What is the difficulty? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So each and every item, if you study what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then your life will be happy*-if you take to it. Simply understanding Kṛṣṇa, you'll be liberated. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

[Bg. 4.9]



*Kṛṣṇa says that "If somebody simply understands Me, Kṛṣṇa, in fact..." To understand Kṛṣṇa superficially is no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Tattvataḥ. That tattvic knowledge is also very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*It is very difficult to understand. Because Kṛṣṇa says out of many millions of people, one is perfect, and out of many millions of perfect men, one can hardly understand Kṛṣṇa. So it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if one is fortunate, he can understand. How? Now, Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. "There is no more higher truth than Me." So if one is fortunate to understand Kṛṣṇa, that there is no more higher truth than Kṛṣṇa. And if he follows the advice of Kṛṣṇa, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], then he's fortunate. Fortunate means everyone has got his discretion. So one who has the fortune to discriminate, then he can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily.



Therefore this association is required, how to understand Kṛṣṇa, although it is very difficult. But the difficulty is removed by the association of devotees, by the association of Kṛṣṇa. So this opening of different centers in different parts of the world means we are trying to give association of Kṛṣṇa to everyone. There is no discrimination. Just like in the Western countries we are trying to give Kṛṣṇa consciousness for the last four or five years, and people are taking it. We have got now sixty centers, and they're accepting the principles, they're becoming devotees of Kṛṣṇa sincerely. So it is not very difficult task, provided one is sincere and serious. Then as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, then what happens to you? Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Anyone who simply understands Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be that after quitting this body you won't have to come back again in this material world and accept a body for different kinds of miserable conditions. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: [Bg. 4.9] "He doesn't take birth again here." Then where does he go? Mām eti, "He comes to Me."

*So these are simple truths, all explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. It is open to everyone. Kṛṣṇa is everyone's father. You may take Kṛṣṇa Indian God, or Kṛṣṇa Indian, or Hindu, but Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: [Bg. 14.4] "In all forms of life, in all species of life, whoever he may be, I am the seed-giving father." So don't think that Kṛṣṇa is for the Hindus, for the Indians, or for the human being. No. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Otherwise how He is God? If He is for a particular section, then how He can be God? God cannot be for a particular type of man or particular section, particular society. God is for human being or the birds, beasts, aquatics, insect, trees, plants, everyone. That is God. He says, sarva-yoniṣu: "In every species of life, whatever form may be, that doesn't matter," ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4], He says, "I am the seed-give father." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So our proposition is that we are somehow or other in an envelopment of so many mistakes. And therefore we are suffering. Suffering means due to ignorance. Just like a man does not know the law of the country... A civil instance:(?) just like here in London the car is driven from the left side, in America the car is driven by the right side. So suppose one comes from America, he's driving the car from the right side, the police arrest. "Why you arrest me, sir?" "Because you are driving on the right side." "That I know. I do not know that you have to drive left side." "That does not mean you are free from criminal charges. Come to the court." So this criminality is happened on account of ignorance. So any criminal person wrongly*-guided means ignorance. Therefore we have to develop real knowledge. The real knowledge is that God is one, God is great, we are part and parcel of God, and therefore we have to serve God. This is knowledge.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Śyāmasundara: Does anyone have any questions that you would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda?



Guest (1): Your Divine Grace, you talked about when one was dead if he's completely Kṛṣṇa consciousness or is ready to take death and is in exact mindfulness of this state, how, how do you process to a right moment unless one is helped at the last minute of death?(?)



Prabhupāda: Yes, somehow or other, at the time of your death if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your life is successful. Ante nārāyaṇa smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. But if you do not practice while you're conscious, then it is very difficult to remember Kṛṣṇa at the time of death.



Guest (1): Would you possibly say that the moment of death, the last thought which is...



*Prabhupāda: At the time of death, somehow or other, if you are fortunate enough to remember Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. I shall describe this instance in these discourses, Ajamila, how he became delivered. So the real purpose is ante nārāyaṇa*-smṛtiḥ: at the time of death we may be able to think of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful.



Guest (1): Much has been said about yoga and...



*Prabhupāda: That yoga is also the same thing. Yoga practice means to concentrate one's mind, to practice, the Viṣṇu form within the heart. Viṣṇu is another form of Kṛṣṇa. So, not this modern yoga system, thinking something void. This is not prescribed in the authoritative scriptures. That is simply taking trouble. Kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta*-cetasām. Those who are attached void, voidness, they simply take more trouble to realize God.



Guest (2): Many books from the East advocate the, without any success in yoga, before one has success, the kuṇḍalinī must be opened. What do you think about this?



*Prabhupāda: Well, we think of Bhagavad*-gītā first, then others. Bhagavad-gītā says that yoga should be practiced concentrating one's mind on Kṛṣṇa. Mat-parāyaṇaḥ. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇaḥ. Nārāyaṇa parāyaṇaḥ. These words are there. So if yoga practice is performed by concentrating one's mind on Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, that is first-class yoga, and that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā: [Bg. 6.47] "Of all yogis, one who is always thinking of Me within the heart, he is first-class yogi." So if you are practicing yoga, we should recommend that you think of Kṛṣṇa within your heart. That will help you. That is our advice. But if you think something else, that is your business. (laughter) We cannot advise anything. But we would advise you, if you are fond of practicing yoga... This is also yoga. This is called bhakti-yoga. Everything yoga. Jñāna-yoga, karma-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga. Generally, they practice haṭha-yoga, and they're satisfied only by getting into practice the system of āsana. That's all. But there are many other steps: yama, niyama, āsana, praṇāyāma, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, pratyāhāra, samādhi. Say, generally, the so-called yogi class, they simply practice some āsana. And no yama, niyama, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, pratyāhāra. So to practice yoga, it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, first of all, you have to select a secluded place. And that must be very sacred. And you have to sit there alone. Who is going to do that? It is not possible to practice yoga in a fashionable city. It is not possible. Therefore India, those who are actually yogis, they go to the Himalaya, Hardwar, in a secluded place, in a sacred place they sit down tight and practice yoga. That is yoga. Not that in a yoga class you practice some gymnastic and you become a yogi. Yoga system is very difficult system, haṭha-yoga system. But we do not know that. We want everything very cheap. Oh, that is not possible. Because it is not possible, therefore in this age the śāstra recommends, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and you will achieve... And see the result. We have thousands of students. They have been called by the newspaper reporter "bright faces." Compare with these students and any yoga class student: how much they know, how do they know? So this haṭha-yoga system is a recommended system. That's all right. But it is not possible in this age. It is very difficult. This practice is very easy. Even a child can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and he becomes purified. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So if your business is how to become purified and realize yourself or realize God, then this is the system in this age. You have to take to it, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you take to other system, you are at liberty. But so far śāstra is concerned, that will not be successful. Yes?



Guest (2): When the living entity comes to the material world, what is the state of the spiritual body? And then how does this spiritual body begin to develop?



Prabhupāda: Spiritual body is there already. You simply cover yourself with another material coating. Just like you are trying to go to the moon planet. Your body's there, but you coat your body just suitable to the moon planet. And that dress costs $40,000 or something like that. (laughter) So after spending $40,000 for each man and going for so many years, they have collected little dust. That is their success. So if you want to waste your money in that way, do that. (laughter) Yes?



Indian lady: Is it better to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra loud or is it better hide the mantra? (?)



Prabhupāda: As loud as possible.



Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol!



Prabhupāda: So that others can hear and take benefit of it. There is no secret. It is not that secret mantra, that "I'll give you a special mantra, and you give me $35." (laughter) It is open to everyone. Chant loudly, as loudly as possible. No question of payment.



Guest (3): Have you seen Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You are not seeing? Why you are so blind? Everyone seeing, Kṛṣṇa is here.



Woman: Is it a very good omen to see in your sleep state person showing to do the Hare Kṛṣṇa chant?



Prabhupāda: Well, sleep, when you sleep and dream, you take it all false. It is not very good omen.



Śyāmasundara: She said...



Woman: Like(?) you do anything about the movement in sleep, and I was... (?)



Prabhupāda: Sleep... Sleep is sleep. But in advanced stages in sleep also... Dream means whatever you act in awakened state, that comes as something, phantasmagoria. But actually, you have to do according to the rules and regulations, not under some dream or phantasmagoria. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness has to be executed according to the rules and regulations. Then it will be successful. Yes?



Indian lady: What does the peacock feather mean to Kṛṣṇa?



Śyāmasundara: What does a peacock feather mean to Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa likes it. Yes.



Indian lady: Is it a symbol of love, or what it is?



*Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa likes peacock feather. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam. We cannot check Kṛṣṇa's liking. (laughter) Yes? First of all, yes...



*Indian man: I am very much thankful to you for giving this divine knowledge to our crippled people, who are suffering in this material world. But... And I'm also convinced by this of kīrtana. I am somewhat surprised and I feel very much grateful about... Or the world, it is not grateful for Kṛṣṇa consciousness(?). And there were many Kṛṣṇa devotees in that part of the world which is now called Bangaladesh. And millions of Kṛṣṇa devotees, all sons of Kṛṣṇa, are being butchered by the..., and butcher of their family or... I'm talking about west Pakistan. What is your answer to this sort of the genocide or greatest man*-made disaster.



Prabhupāda: That is going on since the creation. How can you stop it? The history repeats itself. This butchering, this attack by one country by another or by one king to another, that is going on. This is the nature; *therefore it is called duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This is a place simply for suffering. Therefore everyone's business is how to get out of it. You cannot stop what is going on in Bangaladesh. It may be in Bangaladesh or it may be in Vietnam or it may be in some other places*-this is nature's law; *it will go on. You cannot stop it. The best thing is to get out of the scene. That is your business. You cannot stop it. Even if you show sympathy, that is useless. Because this is the way of nature. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Paritrāṇāya sa... vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. The vināśa is there. The two things are going on: maintenance and dissolution and creation. So you cannot stop the process. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. All these ephemeral things which come and go, if one is not disturbed by all these things, then he is the right candidate for liberation.



Indian man: They seem the greater criminal who is now telling these people there...



Prabhupāda: Well, criminal is criminal, greater or smaller. Just like in India it is said that if you have stolen a khira, a cucumber, or you have stolen a hīrā, a diamond, you are equally punishable.



Indian man: Do you think those who are butcher are all criminals?



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Indian man: Those who are butcher, they are all criminals?



Prabhupāda: They may not be criminals, but what is your idea?



Indian man: I want to hear the solution from you to this disastrous situation in the present material world.



Prabhupāda: So what way you want?



Indian man: No, I don't know. I want from you.



Prabhupāda: So our solution is that chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Haribol! Jaya!



Indian lady: What is the best method of making your children Kṛṣṇa conscious? Teaching the śāstra or...?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotee: What is the best method of making children Kṛṣṇa conscious?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that "Sexual intercourse which is not against religious principles, that is I am." Kṛṣṇa says. So sex intercourse should be not against the religious principle. Therefore illicit sex life is forbidden in our society. Sex should be utilized only for begetting nice children, not for any other purpose.



Indian lady: How do you make the children... But how do you make them Kṛṣṇa conscious?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We are propagating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement just to make everyone Kṛṣṇa conscious. Never mind what is his past background. If one takes to this process, he becomes purified. That is our propaganda. We are not taking account of his past deeds. In the Kali*-yuga everyone's past deeds is not very happy. Therefore we don't consider about the past deeds. We simply request that you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And Kṛṣṇa also says that,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣ...

[Bg. 18.66]



It might be I was very sinful in my past life, but when I surrender to Kṛṣṇa He gives me shelter and I am free. That is our proposal. We don't consider about the past deeds. Everyone may be sinful in his past deeds. That doesn't matter. But if he takes to Kṛṣṇa's shelter as Kṛṣṇa says, then Kṛṣṇa will give us protection. That is our propaganda.



Guest (3): Swamijī, can you tell us why we're in this material contamination? Why is it that the spirit soul has material contamination?



Prabhupāda: That is the slight independence of the spirit soul. As soon as the spirit soul wants to enjoy for himself... Just like many boys gives up the association of the parents and he wants to enjoy this material world in his own way, without the sanction of the father and mother. He has got the right. Similarly, although we are all sons of God, or Kṛṣṇa, we have got the independence to give up His company and enjoy this material world. That is contamination.



Guest (3): And do we all originate from Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Indian lady: What is one's prescribed duty?



Devotee: What is one's prescribed duty?



Prabhupāda: To surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Very simple thing. "Kṛṣṇa, I forgot You for so many lives. Now I surrender unto You. Give me protection." That's all. Very simple thing. Yes?



*Guest (4): Your Divine Grace, will you kindly explain the significance of Ratha*-yātrā festival?



*Prabhupāda: Ratha*-yātrā is Kṛṣṇa's festival.



Guest (4): And purpose of it?



Prabhupāda: Purpose to see how Kṛṣṇa is enjoying.



Guest (4): Is it a victory procession? I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure whether it is a victory procession. And...



Prabhupāda: Yes, you'll be sure when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. At this present, at the present moment, you cannot be sure. But when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness you'll be sure.



Guest (4): No, I mean, When Viṣṇu was returning from the Battlefield of...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, this is meant for the devotees of the Kṛṣṇa, or those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness people, others also can take the advantage. But if anyone sincerely sees the Ratha*-yātrā festival and understands how Kṛṣṇa visited Kurukṣetra along with His brother and sister, that is very nice. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Kulaśekhara: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: I cannot hear you.



Kulaśekhara: Could you explain a little bit about the position in which we were situated in the spiritual sky before coming to the material world?



Devotee: What position did we occupy in the spiritual sky before we fell into the material world?



Prabhupāda: You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly... The sky is one, when it is clouded or not clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Kṛṣṇa by the cloud of illusion, that is material. Try to understand. There is allotted(?)... When the sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different sky. You are in the same sky. When the cloud is clear, you are in the same sky. But the difference of position is due to the cloud. That is called māyā. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. And as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is spiritual. Just like here, this temple is not in London. It is Vaikuṇṭha.



Devotees: Haribol!



*Prabhupāda: Because here everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. They haven't forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are in Vaikuṇṭha. Others may see that "Oh, you are in London. How you are in Vaikuṇṭha?" Just like Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad*-gītā is said, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] God is situated in everyone's heart. So everyone's heart means He is in the heart of the hog also. But if the hog is within the stool, that does not mean Kṛṣṇa is also within the stool. Similarly, the devotees, although they are in London or New York, they're in Vaikuṇṭha. That is to be realized when one is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yatra tiṣṭhanti mad-bhaktā tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada. Kṛṣṇa says, "I live there where My devotees are there." So Kṛṣṇa can be everywhere where there is devotee. So this material world, spiritual world means when you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. When you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is spiritual. That's all. You may remain in the same place. Because everything is Kṛṣṇa's-īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]-so how you can distinguish what is material, what is spiritual? If every, every part of the creation belongs to Kṛṣṇa, you cannot practically distinguish, "This portion is spiritual, this portion is material." That distinction is due to our forgetfulness. So as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness you will find everything spiritual.



Guest (5): If one realizes the impersonal Brahman, what progress can be made here from this?



Prabhupāda: So if you realize impersonal Brahman, there is chance of falling down again to the material conception. Because you are person, you cannot remain in impersonal stage. Therefore to elevate, to be elevated in the impersonal stage means there is chance of falling down again. But if you elevate yourself to the personal conception of the Absolute Truth, there is no falldown. Of course, because we are marginal potency of Kṛṣṇa, there is possibility of falldown always. But those who are strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they do not fall. That's all right. (end)





710801SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.15

-

New York, August 1, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So we are not going to be misled by anyone. We simply worship the original person, ādi-puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



*Śrīdhara Svāmī is giving his commentation in this connection, that tasya ati duṣkarād mukham eva anyāt prāyaścittaṁ kecit kīrtanena, evaṁ mūḍho bhakti pradhāna virala iti darśayet(?). Kaivalyaṁ tapa-ādibhir nirapekṣaya(?). Śrīdhara Svāmī's explaining this word, kevalayā, "simply by devotional service," kevalayā bhaktyā*-but without being dependent on other processes. The other processes we have described: tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena [SB 6.1.13], by observing celibacy. Now take for example celibacy. In this age, especially... Why especially in this or that? All over the world, to remain a brahmacārī is little difficult. One who can, it is very good. But it is difficult. So brahmacaryeṇa, by practicing celibacy, a life of celibacy, even one has the intention, the association, the society is so much polluted that one cannot. It is very difficult. So in bhakti-yoga it is not very strict that one has to observe celibacy strictly. He can marry. Marriage is allowed, but not for indulgence. But because a man requires a woman or a woman requires a man, there is sacred marriage. This man and woman is educated that he or she is not this body. Therefore advancement of this education will stop him for this bodily enjoyment. Just like eating also. We are eating; *we are not fasting. We are eating. But we are eating just to maintain the body and soul together, not extravagantly. Although we have very nice plates, kṛṣṇa*-prasādam, but we do not make any palatable dishes for enjoyment. We make all nice things for Kṛṣṇa, and we take prasādam. Therefore the material effect of eating, it does not act upon the devotees.



*So therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "By one stroke, kevalayā*-without waiting for the austerity, undergoing severe penance, austerities, celibacy, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, and giving in charity, performing great sacrifices, to become, becoming very truthful, clean-but without waiting for all these things, simply by one stroke, accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one immediately ascends the highest position." There is ample proof in our Society. They had never any austerity, penance or celibacy, or they tried to control the senses or mind, or they gave any big amount of charities, or they observed cleanliness. Nothing of the sort. But immediately, simply by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just see how they are nice. Practical proof. Now bring any yogi, any jñānī, any person undergoing severe penances, and compare with these boys and girls. He'll fail. This is practical... Simply by accepting this devotional service, kevala-bhakti, without waiting for the other penance. They're already under penance. They're already leading the life of celibacy. They have already controlled the senses. They have already controlled the mind. They're giving in charity. Whatever they have, they're giving to Kṛṣṇa. Damena tyāgena, tyāga. They have given their life. What to speak of money and other things, they have given their whole life for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, how this Movement is improving? If I... I came here alone. Still, no Indian helping me. There may be one or two of my disciples. Others... There are so many Indians in this country. They're not helping me. But these boys, these girls, because they have come to the transcendental platform, they're helping me so nicely. Therefore the Movement is going forward. This is practical. Kevalayā bhaktyā. Simply by taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service.

*It is just like, I sometimes give example: The blacksmith's method and the goldsmith's method. The goldsmith, he has got a small hammer*-tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk. And the blacksmith has a big hammer-dumh, finish. So our is blacksmith method. We take the big hammer of bhakti yoga and finish all, everything. You see. We won't have to undergo so many tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk. And there is no possibility. If I say, "Now you have to become completely brahmacārī. You have to sit down in the forest and stay at right angle and press your nose for six months," who will follow? There is no possibility. This tuk tuk method, there is no possibility. We have to get this hammer, blacksmith hammer of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and immediately finish everything. This is Kali-yuga. Simply one... Who can do this? This one hammer, finishing all, who can do this? Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. Bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. By devotional service one has to become vāsudeva-parāyaṇa, devotee of Lord Vāsudeva. That's all. That is being taught here: how to become lover of Vāsudeva. This prescribed method, that rise early in the morning, have maṅgala-ārātrika, kīrtana, then bhoga-ārātrika, kīrtana, then go to the street saṅkīrtana, then come back, again kīrtana, again ārātrika-simply engaged in Vāsudeva's service. That includes everything. All these austerities, penance, charity, and cleanliness... They're clean. They're taking bath every day three times, at least two times, they are taking bath, although previous to this, perhaps weekly they were taking once bath. You see? So how they have become? This is practical proof. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇa. Therefore whole people of the world should be made vāsudeva-parāyaṇa by the simple method of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they will be all peaceful. It will become Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise it is hellish. It is, has already become a hell, the whole world. And if you don't take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this hellish condition of life will simply make progress, in spite of all your education and economic development. That's a fact. Those who are thoughtful, they should take this Movement very seriously. They should try to understand what is the value of this Movement. It is not that something manufactured by me or by man. It is authoritative.

*Here it is said: bhaktyā vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena. They become able, quite competent to cut down all sinful reactions simply by one method, kārtsnyena. How? Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Bhāskara means sun. As soon as there is sunrise, the mist or the fog immediately disappears. Many thousands of miles. People in the mist, in the fog, they cannot run on railway, they cannot run on the airplanes. And I've seen, I've experienced. Yesterday practically our plane was lost in the fog, and high in the sky. And I've seen in the sea also, as soon as there is fog... When I was coming to your country on ship, the ship stops and they began to bugle: gaonh gongh gonhgonh, like that. But as soon as there is sun, this thousands miles of fog immediately... The example is very nice: nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. So you try to make Kṛṣṇa sun rise in your heart. Kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said Kṛṣṇa is just like sun. Māyā haya andhakāra. And māyā, this illusory energy, it is darkness. Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra. As soon as there is sun, Kṛṣṇa, immediately darkness of māyā disappears. So why not take this simple method? All māyā disappears. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Otherwise, to surpass, to overcome this ocean of darkness, māyā, is very difficult. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. Duratyayā, very, very difficult. Hard. Then how? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Simply teach people to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. God. All illusion, fog, mist will disappear. Will disappear.

*And the method is very simple: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... The more you go on chanting the..., the fog within your heart, the clumsy darkness of many, many lives sinful activities, will be cleared. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And everything will be seen very distinctly. What I am? What is God? What is this world? What is our interrelation? How I shall live in this world? Then what is my next life? These things are not taught. Simply how to manufacture something for sense gratification. After all, it is sense gratification. You may discover... The other day somebody was telling me in Los Angeles that they have discovered an aeroplane which can run on very, I mean, speedily. But there is danger. As soon as the aeroplane will run on, there may be many windows here in the city, they'll dismantle. So we are trying to create something for sense gratification. At the same time, side by side, we are creating so much inconvenience. In this way, our time is being wasted. Action and reaction. Action and reaction. There must be some reaction. Whatever you do, there must be reaction. And that reaction you'll be entangled. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. Either you do good work or bad work, if it is for sense gratification, then you'll be entangled. But yajñārthe karma, if you do for kṛṣṇa-yajña, then you are free. So this process, recommended by Śukadeva Gosvāmī-kevala-bhakta-take to devotional service, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and everything, all other things will be automatically adjusted.

na tathā hy aghavān rājan

pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ

*yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇas

*tat*-puruṣa-niṣevayā

[SB 6.1.16]



*Now he clearly summarizes: na tathā hy aghavān. Aghavān means one who is sinful. Every one of us sinful, more or less. That's all. Otherwise, unless you are sinful, you don't get this material body. As soon as we are free from sinful life, then we are liberated. We are transferred to the spiritual world, and we get spiritual body. The whole process is how to cleanse ourself from the contamination of our sinful life. That is material world. So here Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that na tathā hy aghavān rājan. "My dear King"*-rājan, he's the king, rājan. Aghavān, "Those who are sinful...," rājan na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta. Pūyeta means becomes purified from contamination. Tapa-ādibhiḥ. Tapa-ādibhiḥ..., tapa means this austerity, beginning from austerity, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena ca [SB 6.1.13]. I've described. We have discussed. He says that one cannot be completely purified by executing these process of purificatory methods. Na tathā. Maybe. Just like there are many examples. There are Dhruva, Viśvāmitra Muni. He underwent all this tapasya. He was a kṣatriya. He wanted to become a brāhmaṇa. There was a quarrel between him and a ṛṣi. So he saw the extraordinary power of the ṛṣi, and he wanted to become a brāhmaṇa. So he began austerity. But he became also a victim of Menakā, the society girl of heavenly planet. And being entangled, he begot a child. In this way he became implicated, because he was not pure.



So here it is said that even if you perform austerity, penances, the worldly circumstances are so implicated that it will involve you some way or other again into the material modes of nature. There are many instances. Many sannyāsīs, they give up this world as mithyā, all false. "Let me take to Brahman." But again they become implicated to philanthropic work, welfare activities. If this world is false, why you are attracted to the welfare activities? If it is false in your opinion... We say it is not false. Our philosophy is... We don't say that the world is false; *we say the world is temporary. How it can be false? If God created this world, if God is true, how His creation can be false? We don't approve this philosophy. We accept that this is not false, but this is temporary. And because it is creation of God, because He's Absolute Truth, it is also true. Simply we are seeing it otherwise. Just like I'm claiming something within this world as my property. That is false. But this is someone's property*-that is fact. That is God's property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Not that the property is false. Just like this house, this building, this nice room, it is so nicely decorated; *there is electric light. If somebody says: "It is false," how it is false? It is not false. Why I shall say false? Why I shall discourage the persons who are using this room as for their devotional service, they're making progress...? How we can say it is false? It is not false. The false is when I claim that "This is my house." That is false. That is false. That is my false puffed-up consciousness, that "I am the proprietor, I am the master, I am God." This is false. Just like first of all we want to become a proprietor, then master, then minister, then president, then God. When everything fails, then "I am God." Same tendency is there*-that I want to become the greatest. But how you can be the greatest? God is greatest. You are always smallest. That is... That smallest is thinking greatest that is false. The smallness is not false. The greatness is not false. But when the small thinks as great, that is false. That is māyā.

*So long one is in māyā... Now our beginning is that we accept immediately the great the great and the small the small. We understand from the Vedic literature: mahato mahīyān aṇor aṇīyān. Aṇu means atom. The atom, he is, the Brahman, or the spirit, is smaller than the atom. Aṇor aṇīyān, still smaller. And mahato mahīyān: and the greater than the greatest. We have the conception of the greatest, the sky. But Kṛṣṇa showed that millions of skies were within His mouth. So therefore mahato mahīyān. So actually we, the living entities, we are part and parcel of God, but we are very minute quantity, infinitesimal. And God is infinite. So infinitesimal, our magnitude is, I've several times explained, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So you cannot even imagine with your material senses. Therefore aṇor aṇīyān, smaller than the atom. The same thing*-we are also spirit, and Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, is also spirit. Qualitatively we are one. But we are the smallest and He is the greatest. So we accept it immediately from the Vedic information. Therefore our position is safe. We do not falsely declare that "I am God." Just give proof that you are God. Then claim. But some rascal claims that he's God, and other rascals, they accept that he's God. God is not so cheap. God, as we get description from Brahma-saṁhitā: yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. Many millions of universes are coming out from the exhaling of God, and again they are disappearing by inhaling of God. That is God. By simply breathing, millions of universes are being created and millions of universes are being dissolved simply by inhaling. This is going on. So how we can claim? So our, this unnecessary, puffed-up claim is not there. Therefore we are already liberated. We don't have to seek for liberation. Liberation means to become liberated from these nonsense, false ideas. That is liberation. As soon as we think that "I am this body," I'm not liberated. And as soon as I know perfectly well that "I am not this body," I am liberated. This knowledge gives liberation. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī says prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. To develop your knowledge, that will give you relief.

So our knowledge is perfect because we know that we are very small particle of spiritual spark. That is our constitutional position. And God is the Supreme, the greatest spiritual identity. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. He's supplying all the necessities of the small, spiritual sparks. Because we know rightly, and as we are part and parcel of God, minute particles, therefore our duty is to serve God. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body; this finger is not enjoyer. The body, or the chief place in the body, the stomach, he's the enjoyer. Similarly, God is the center of all creation, the whole universal body. Therefore He's enjoyer; *we are servitor. So our conception is very clear. Therefore we are liberated. Liberation means to become free from all false conception of life. That is liberation. Liberation does not mean that you have got now two hands, and, as soon as you are liberated, you'll have ten hands. No. Liberation means that you become free from all nonsensical, false conception of life. That is liberation. That is the definition given in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, what is liberation. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpam. Mukti means to give up... Anyathā rūpam... As we are now living under some false conception, so when one gives up this all false conception, that is called mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. And when one is situated in his original, constitutional position, giving up all false notions, he's liberated. That is liberation. Liberation is not very difficult. Simply... There is another verse that by awakening knowledge, one becomes liberated immediately. But, but what is that knowledge? This knowledge is very simple: God is great; we are small. We are His part and parcel; *therefore it is our duty to serve Him. Two lines*-liberation. Instead of undergoing so much difficult processes, if simply you understand these two lines: God is great, I am very small. He is the Supreme Proprietor, or master, He is supplying us all necessities of life; therefore our duty is to serve Him. That's all.

Now, if anyone present here can challenge this statement? Is there anyone? No, you cannot challenge. This is the fact. Simply we are under false impression that "I am this; *I am that." Lastly "I am God. I am God." What kind of God you are? If you get immediately little toothache, you go to physician*-god, the dentist-god. This is called māyā. This is called māyā. There is a verse that

*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya



*Piśācī means ghost. When one man is ghostly haunted, he speaks so many nonsense. Similarly, when one is entangled by the illusory energy, māyā, he also speaks all nonsense. At last he speaks that "I am God." That is the last snare of māyā. So they are not, they cannot be liberated, because they are under the false impression still. Anyone who is under the false impression, or anyone who is attracted by false knowledge, he's under the clutches of māyā. When there is right knowledge, right conception of life, then one is liberated. That is called brahma*-bhūta [SB 4.30.20]. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you get right knowledge, you become jolly. First jolliness is due to "Oh, I was in such false notion so long. Oh, how fool I was." Then you become happy that "Now I am no longer fool. I was thinking that I'm God. But now I can understand that I am God's eternal servant." That gives him liberation and he becomes prasannātmā, jolly.



*Because that is the right situation. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Na śocati. He has no lamentation. Because if anyone knows that I am a small particle, spiritual spark, and protected by the Supreme Lord, then where there is scope of my lamentation? Just like a small child, so long he knows that "My father is standing by me, I am free. Nobody can touch my body..." Because he's confident that if there is any danger, "My father is there." Similarly, this surrender means completely to have faith that "I have no danger because God, Kṛṣṇa, is protecting me. I am now fully surrendered, prasannātmā." That is called prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no lamentation, and he has no desire also. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He's hankering after something. The whole material world, one who is not God conscious, is simply hankering, hankering. Or, if he loses something, he's lamenting. That is two business are there. But a God conscious person, Kṛṣṇa conscious person, has no lamentation, no hankering. If anything is lost, he knows that it is God's wish. "God desired this. That's all right." And he knows that "Everything is provided by God; *why shall I hanker?" Na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then universal brotherhood: "As I am part and parcel of God, my brother is also, my friend is also, the dog is also like that, the cow is also like that. They're all part and parcel of God as spirit, as spiritual spark. Therefore they're all equal. Why shall I envy him? Why shall I utilize(?) him? Why shall I trouble him?" These good consciousness, good qualities, automatically develop. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇāḥ. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. Anyone who has developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all the good qualities of the demigods will manifest in his body. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. The demigods are supposed to be very highly qualified. So all the godly or demigodly qualities will manifest. They are... Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. The Vaiṣṇava becomes the ocean of mercy to others. They're going door to door: "Please be Kṛṣṇa conscious. You'll be happy." Actually that is the fact. So who can be merciful than these Vaiṣṇavas? They are giving the right contribution to the society. They need it.

*So simply by God consciousness, simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we can develop all the good qualities, we can conquer over all reactions of our sinful life. Simply we have to follow the regulative principles as they're enjoined by the ācāryas, as they're... Very simple method. And by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, as much as possible, then we keep the standard. We keep the standard means we keep ourself in liberated state. Simply we have to be cautious that māyā, or material conception of life, may not again attack us. So (he) says, na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ, yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇaḥ. Anyone who has dedicated himself, his life, to Kṛṣṇa, na ta..., yathā kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇas tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā... How one can become dedicated to Kṛṣṇa? Tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. That Supreme Personality being served, being served. By serving. You can, you can, simply by lip... But you cannot say that "Now I have dedicated my life to Kṛṣṇa." No. That's all right, but you have to keep the standard of surrender by niṣevayā, by serving. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva [Brs. 1.2.234]. As you serve, as you go on serving the Supreme Lord, so He becomes revealed within your... He's within your heart. So by your service He'll reveal Himself. So kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇas tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. We should remember this, that our business is that we should be dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. Our life, everything, should be dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. And how it can be possible? Tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. Simply by serving the Supreme Personality.

*So this program, this devotional service, morning, from morning till night, is simply how to serve Him. The more we serve, then we become dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says on the Bhagavad*-gītā the same thing: teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Persons who are twenty-four hours engaged, satata-yuktānām... Satata means twenty-four hours. Not that five minutes or fifteen minutes meditation, and then do all nonsense. No. Twenty-four hours one should be engaged in the service of the Lord. Twenty-four hours. That we are doing. Whatever he knows, whatever talent he has got, use for Kṛṣṇa. That is twenty-four hours' engagement. Either

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*There are nine processes. So keep your self always engaged in either of these nine processes. That is twenty*-four hours' engagement. Satata. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām [Bg. 10.10]. One who is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. How? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. Not that it is disgusting. No. Prīti, with love. Of course, it may be disgusting in the beginning. But as you make progress in service, you'll find it pleasing, not disgusting. That is the taste that you have developed. When you do not feel disgusted in the service, in executing the service of the Lord, that means you have made progress. That material service becomes disgusting.



*Just like for example, here is Kṛṣṇa's name, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Throughout one's life, twenty-four hours, he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But it is not disgusting. But take any material name and chant it three times, you become disgusted. This is a fact. But these boys, these girls, throughout, throughout their life will go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, will never be disgusted, but they will chant more and more. So this is prīti. The more you chant, the more you become attached: "Let me chant more." Not disgusted, but "Let me chant more." This is called prīti. Similarly, any service of the Lord. This is service by śravaṇam and kīrtanam. That is the beginning. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23]. Then always remembering Kṛṣṇa. When you are perfect in chanting and hearing, then you'll always remember Kṛṣṇa. That means in the third stage you become the greatest yogi. Because Kṛṣṇa says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām: [Bg. 6.47] "One who is always engaged..." So Kṛṣṇa says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam [Bg. 10.10]. Then Kṛṣṇa reveals and gives him intelligence: "You do like this. You do like this." Why Kṛṣṇa gives intelligence? Yena mām upayānti te. He gives such intelligence by which he may progress for reaching Kṛṣṇa*-not for going to hell. He's given intelligence for making progress to approach Kṛṣṇa, not that turn back to Kṛṣṇa and go to hell. No. That intelligence is not given by Kṛṣṇa.

So here also the same thing is stated, that,

*yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇas

*tat*-puruṣa-niṣevayā



sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke

*panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto*-bhayaḥ

suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra

*nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ



*Now Śukadeva Gosvāmī says... This is the perfect way for our ultimate good, goodness, kṣema. Akuto-bhayaḥ: without any fearfulness. In any action you do, there is some fearfulness whether it will be successful or not: "If I fail, if..." But if you take to devotional service, then it is akuto-bhayaḥ. Akutaḥ means there is no fear, no fear, because any, anything material you do, unless you come to the perfectional point, whatever you have done, that is all gone to hell. Suppose you are trying to construct a nice factory. But if you do not come to the ultimate end, the factory cannot be started. If in the middle you have no money or somehow or other the factory construction is stopped, then whatever money you invested, that is gone to hell. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that whatever you have done in this life*-one percent, two percent, ten percent, fifty percent... If you can execute cent percent, then the whole life is perfect. But even if you do not come to the perfectional point, whatever you have done, that is your permanent asset. Next life you begin from that point. These things are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā when Arjuna enquired that "If one cannot finish the whole course of yoga system, what happens to him?" He assured that "Whatever he has done, that remains his permanent asset. Now, from next life, he begins-suppose he has finished fifty percent-from the next life he begins from fifty one percent." But for the karmīs, whatever they have done in this life, whatever they have earned... Suppose by working very hard, you got millions of dollars. But you cannot take it away. It is left here and go. You cannot take. But Kṛṣṇa conscious activities you take with you and next life begin again.



So we should not wait for next life. We should try to fulfill the mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life so that, as assured by Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: [Bg. 4.9] "After leaving this body, he does not come again to this material world." Mām eti: "He comes to Me."

Thank you very much. (end)



730222SB.AUC

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.15

-

Auckland, February 22, 1973



Prabhupāda:



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



*So purificatory process. Our disease is... Try to understand very patiently. The living entity, he is under diseased condition. What is that diseased condition? Accepting birth, death, old age and disease. This is diseased condition. We living entity, we are eternal, pure. Because we are part and parcel of God, therefore... God is the purest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Kṛṣṇa when realized... Arjuna, when he realized the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā, he accepted Lord Kṛṣṇa that "You are Parabrahma. You are the Supreme Brahman." We are all Brahmans, but He is Supreme Brahman, paraṁ brahma. We are īśvaras or... It is very now popular to become God. We are God. That's all right. But the Godhead, He is Godhead. Therefore we use the word "Godhead," "Back to Godhead," not "Back to God." That God is everyone. That's a fact. Just like there are clerks and head clerk in the office. There are many clerks, hundreds of clerks, but one of them is the head clerk. Similarly, the atheistic persons, they are declaring themselves as God. We accept that we are all god*-not theoretically, practically. God means controller. So everyone controls. So in that sense everyone is god. Everyone is opulent. In his relative position, everyone is opulent. I have got one thousand, you have got ten thousand, he has got hundred thousand. But we have got something. So in that way everyone is opulent. Everyone is god. I control my children, my family. Or bigger than me, my boss, he controls a big establishment, a factory, big factory. And similarly, the president, he controls the state. So relatively, everyone is controller, god; *but he is not supreme controller. That is not possible. Supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ*-paramaḥ-kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Therefore it is stated in the śāstra, "The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, above Me, there is nobody." Above Him, there is nobody. Therefore He is the supreme controller or Supreme Lord, Parameśvara.



*So anyway, our controlling business is also interruptable. I want to control. Just like this janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. I want to control death, disease, but I cannot. Everyone is trying. As soon as one is diseased, he tries to control it. He goes to take help from other, the physician, but he cannot. Therefore he is not supreme controller. And at the same time, I want something, but it is not happening. Just like I want to eat something palatable, but due to my diseased condition, I cannot eat. Forbidden apple. But I have the desire to eat it. So because I am not supreme controller, because I am in diseased condition, therefore my business is to cure the disease. Cure the disease*-that is sane man's business. If you are infected with some disease, you should try to cure it. That is your business. If you don't care of it, then you are nonsense. You are not very intelligent man. If you keep yourself always in diseased condition, that is... You are not very intelligent man. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God, a small God, but under material conditions we are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. We should understand this. This foolish brain cannot understand, that... This question must rise: "Why I am put into this tribulation? Why I am in distressed condition? I do not want it. Why I am diseased? I do not want it. Why I become old? I do not want it. Why I am subject to death? I do not want it." These questions do not arise. Arise, but they cannot make any solution. That is less intelligent.

*But there is solution. And that solution is possible in this life, in this human form of life, intelligent life, advanced consciousness, not in the animal life. By nature's evolutionary process, we come, gradually, through the 8,400,000 forms of life, we come to human life. And this human life is meant for curing this material disease. What is that? Birth, death, old age and disease. But people are so unintelligent that they do not care for it. They are simply busy in producing some material, temporary comfortable situation of this body. That's all. They are wasting time. Dīna gelo, rātri gelo... That we are sleeping at night. Divā cārthehayā rājan, nidrayā naktam. At night we sleep or indulge in sex life, and in daytime we earn money. And as soon as we get money, we spend it for the comforts of the world. This is our business. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ [SB 2.1.3]. Vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ, divā cārthehayā rājan kutūmba*-bharaṇena vā. This is the position. At night we are wasting time. The so long we sleep, that is wasting time. The less we sleep... And even a very, very big businessmen, they sleep very less. Very, very big politician, they also sleep less. So because sleeping, the part of our life spended sleeping that means wasted. So we should control our sleeping, not to sleep more. That is one of the business. Because our life is very short, and if we spend our time sleeping... Suppose half sleeping and half working. Then half our life is spoiled simply by sleeping. Then other business are there. In old age we cannot do anything. In childhood we cannot do anything substantial. So childhood means up to twenty years we spoil. And then, when we get old, we spend another twenty years-forty years. And suppose we live eighty years. So eighty years, out of eighty years, another twenty years by sleeping, then we get twenty years. (laughter) But our business is very responsible, that we have to solve all the problems of life. This is human life. This is human life: to solve the problem, not to increase the problem.

*But at the present moment people are being taught to increase the problem. Increase the problem... Just like I was discussing, they have increased the problems so much so that even in the womb of mother they are being killed. Just imagine how much we have increased the problem. Even there is no security... In India they say, security position, that one is sleeping on the lap of his mother. That is best security. Because the child, when he is sleeping on the lap of his mother, if there is some danger, mother will first of all come forward to save the child. That is natural. But the problems of life has so become complicated that even mother is killing child. Just imagine. The present position of the civilization, that there is no question of security, even on the lap of the mother, and what to speak of otherwise. But the business of human life is to solve the problems of life, but we have increased the problems of life. This is the civilization. Why? Because we are not taking to the process of human life. The process of human life is mentioned here: tapasya, austerity. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena ca [SB 6.1.13]. This is the process to make solution of the problems of life. And if we do not do that, then we implicate ourself in more problems. But they do not know. They are so foolish that they do not know the problems of life, how to solve it. And here in the Śrīmad*-Bhagavat, Śrīmat Śukadeva Gosvāmī has given you that "You do this." Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa: [SB 6.1.13] "Accept austerities, penance. Observe brahmācārya, celibacy. Control your mind. Control your senses, God consciousness." Dharma-jñā: "Become dhīra, sober." These are the things to be learned in human life. And if we simply, like animals, jump like dog, then what is that civilization?

So two alternatives. One alternative, this step by step; another alternative is, as it is suggested here, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. There is one step, one side, that you observe austerities, penance, and control your mind, senses, and become religiously minded, sober, so many things. Another: kevalayā bhaktyā, simply by engaging yourself in devotional activities. Devotional activities. Devotional activities mean the first beginning of devotional activities is to hear, śravaṇaṁ. Śravaṇam. Just like you are kindly hearing. This is the beginning of devotional life. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23]. Śravaṇam about whom? Sravanam not of politics. If there is political meeting, thousands of men will go to hear. That is also śravaṇam. Therefore in the śāstras it is recommended, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, to hear about Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, not other thing. If you say, "Yes, I am śravaṇam. I am hearing a politicial meeting," not that hearing. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Everything pertaining to Viṣṇu.

*These are nine items: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam ātma-nivedanam arcanaṁ vandanam, like that. There are nine items. Śravaṇam, hearing, chanting. Hearing and chanting, kīrtanam. Smaraṇam, thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can think of Kṛṣṇa. Here is Kṛṣṇa's form. You see and get the form within your heart and think of Kṛṣṇa, meditate. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. You hear about Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You haven't got to do anything. And kīrtanam also. Hearing means somebody is speaking and others are hearing. There must be somebody chanting. Just like I am chanting, I am speaking*-you are hearing. So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. And as soon as we hear and chant, we remember also, smaraṇam. The vandanam, offering prayers. Everyone goes to the temple, to the church, offers prayer. That is also bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. Then arcanam. Just like these boys and girls are engaged in worshiping the Deity. That is called arcanam. Vandanaṁ dāsyam: to become servant of God, to cleanse the temple, to work for God, for Kṛṣṇa, dāsyaṁ. Sakhyam, to accept Kṛṣṇa as friend. Ātma-nivedanam, and offering everything to Kṛṣṇa. These are nine items. You can accept nine, eight, seven, as you like, as you can conveniently, either the whole nine items or one, two, three, four-any. Even if you accept one, your life will be perfect. If you simply take this śravaṇam, if you simply come to this temple and hear about Kṛṣṇa, your life will be successful. It is so nice. Even if you don't do anything, simply if you kindly take the trouble of coming here and just try to hear about Kṛṣṇa sincerely, then your life will be successful. This is called bhakti. Kevalayā bhaktyā. Simply by executing devotional service And there are nine different types of devotional services, out of which, even if you accept one, your life is successful. This is called kevalayā bhaktyā. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. At the last stage of his life he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy to die within seven days. So within seven days he had to prepare himself for the next birth. So he was little perplexed, and all the great saintly persons, sages-because he was emperor of the world-so they came. They consulted. It was decided that "You hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the seven days." That is The Śukadeva Gosvāmī spoke, and he, listened from Śukadeva, and he became perfect within seven days. Therefore in India they observe this Bhagavat-saptāha. That is simply official. Actually, nobody hears very seriously.

*So śravaṇam is so perfect also. Parīkṣit Mahārāja attained perfection simply by hearing seven days. Similarly, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he also attained perfection by speaking seven days to Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23]. Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was put into so many difficulties by his atheist father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, but he was simply remembering Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Because he was a child, five years old, how he can fight with his father? His father was the greatest demon, powerful, and he was against the child. So he used to simply think of Kṛṣṇa, smaraṇam. Pāda*-sevanam: Lakṣmī, goddess of fortune, she simply engaged herself in massaging the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. Pāda-sevanam. Arcanam: Pṛthu Mahārāja, he engaged himself in the arcana. Vandanaṁ. Dāsyam: Hanumān. Akrūra, Akrūra, he simply offered prayers to Kṛṣṇa. Akrūra came to Kṛṣṇa Balarāma to take Them to Mathurā. So he got salvation simply by offering prayers. Vandanaṁ dāsyam. Hanumān, he simply offered his bodily service to Lord Rāmacandra. He got perfection. So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam... Arjuna. Arjuna simply kept friendship with Kṛṣṇa. He got perfection. Sakhyam.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*Ātma*-nivedanam, giving everything to Kṛṣṇa. That is Bali Mahārāja. He did not do anything. He simply... Whatever he possessed, he gave it to Kṛṣṇa, "Take it," his everything. He promised three feet land, and by two feet land all his possession was covered. Then Kṛṣṇa asking that "Where to keep the another feet?" He said, "Yes, sir, there is place. Just keep it on my head. That's all." So by three feet he lost everything. He lost not everything, but he gained everything, and Kṛṣṇa agreed that "You are so sacrificing. Now I shall remain as your doorkeeper here, stand here always to save you from all dangers." So by giving to Kṛṣṇa, by serving Kṛṣṇa, by loving Kṛṣṇa, nobody is loser. Nobody is loser. Everyone is gainer. Everyone is gainer. So therefore we should take this process.



*Therefore it is recommended here, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. Somebody, without undergoing so much austerities, penances and practice in yoga for controlling mind, the senses... It is not possible for the time being, in this age. People are so fallen that they cannot take to these processes. But they can take to this bhakti process. That is the easiest. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ [SB 6.1.15]. Bhaktyā means to become devotee of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, aghaṁ dhunvanti. Agham means all sinful reaction of life. Not only one life. Life after life, we have done. So that can be solved in this human form of life simply by taking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena. In toto, wholesale, kārtsnyena, wholesale. How? Nīhāram ivaṁ bhāskaraḥ. Just like the whole atmosphere is surcharged with fog; nobody can see. The other day we were going from Calcutta to Māyāpur, and so many accidents took place. Yes, actually we could not see even five feet away what is there. And two sides motors are running. Nobody could see. There were so many accidents. Even for few hours' fog, there were hundreds of accidents. Just see. So this is fog. In the sea also... I have got experience when I was coming from India to New York. When there was fog in the sea, then immediately ship would stop and horn, "Onh, onh, onh," Because nobody can see where is another ship. There may be collision there. Similarly, it is dangerous to fly also. The fog is so dangerous. Nowadays people are engaged in the sky, in the water, in the land. Everywhere they have got engagement. But as soon as there is fog, everything is calamity, everything is dangerous. So here this same example is that. When there is fog, it is very difficult to move. But the fog can be immediately moved if there is sunrise. Sunrise is there. If this temperature of the sun becomes little more, then immediately fog is dissipated. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.

Then he further explains,

na tathā hy aghavān rājan

pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ

*yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇas

*tat*-puruṣa-niṣevayā

[SB 6.1.16]



*Now, there is two alternatives offered. One side is austerity, penance, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, and giving in charity. So many formulas are given, the tapa-ādibhiḥ. Because the other side, the tapasya, therefore tapa-ādibhiḥ, "beginning with tapasya, austerity." So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "My dear King," na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ, "if one is practicing the other side, namely tapasya, brahmācārya, celibacy, austerities, yogic principle, controlling the mind, the senses, charity, so many things, so they are also purifying, but they are not so strong. They are not so strong as this devotional service is strong." That is tapa-ādibhiḥ. Na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ, yathās kṛṣṇa*-arpita-prāṇaḥ. One who has dedicated his life to Kṛṣṇa, he is very strong. Kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇaḥ. Yathā kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇas tat-puruṣa niṣevayā. Or dedicated his life to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. He is very strong than the other man who is undergoing austerities, penances, and He is also making progress, certainly. But better process is this: one who has surrendered completely to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa or his representative. Kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇaḥ tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā.



*But you cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa without serving the representative of Kṛṣṇa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, chādiyā vaiṣṇava*-sevā nistara paveche kebā: "Without serving the representative of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa." It is not possible. It is not possible. There are many instances. Mahāt-pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. Niṣkiñcanānṁ, niṣkiñcanānām... There is one verse-just now I forget. The thing is that without being blessed by the representative of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can take interest into Kṛṣṇa. That is another secret. Yasya prasādaḍ bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. The Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that "By the mercy of the spiritual master, one can get the mercy of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya prasādāt, "by whose mercy, Kṛṣṇa is merciful." Niṣkiñcanānāṁ pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. So this is also stated here, that surrender to Kṛṣṇa means surrender to Kṛṣṇa's representative. If you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then also Kṛṣṇa's first mercy is that He will send His representative. If anyone is serious to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will help him from within and without. Within, as Supersoul, He will help, and He will dictate that "You go to this person." Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. When there is combined mercy, both Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you are successful. Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. Two things. Here also it is stated that one may practice, as the austerities, penances, brahmācārya, celibacy, but better position is to take to devotional service and surrender to Kṛṣṇa through His representative. This bhakti.

sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke

*panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto*-bhayaṁ

suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra

*nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ



*Atra hetu sadhrīcīnaḥ samicinaḥ. "It is quite deserving," sadhrīcīnaḥ. Sadhrīcīnaḥ hy ayaṁ loke panthāḥ kṣema akuto*-bhayam. This path, this devotional path, is very secure and very deserving, especially in this age. It is deserving, all the ages. But in other ages people were very long living. Just like tapasya: tapasya is not so very easy thing. Tapasya, it takes too long time. But our life is very short in this age. In the Satya-yuga people used to live for 100,000's of years. In the Tretā-yuga, ten times reduced: ten thousand years. In Dvāpara-yuga, ten times reduced: one thousand years. And the Kali-yuga, again ten times reduced: hundred years. So our life is very short. Where is the time? Therefore to accept this process of devotional service is very deserving, sadhrīcīnaḥ. Sadhrīcīnaḥ sādhavaḥ yatra. Sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke panthāḥ kṣemo akuto-bhayam. Akuto-bhayam, there is no fear. It is completely secure. Once you take to devotional service, you become directly protected by the Personality of Godhead. If you remain a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati: [Bg. 9.31] "My dear Arjuna, you just..., you can declare, anyone who has become My devotee, he will never be vanquished. I will give him all protection." And Kṛṣṇa says also,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



"I shall give you protection."



*So Kṛṣṇa is the supreme powerful. He is giving assurance. Therefore, instead of accepting the other way, to practice penance and becoming, observing brahmācārya and so many other things*-by one stroke, simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, you will achieve all the benefits, all other benefits. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate [SB 5.18.12]. By becoming a devotee, automatically he is practicing penances. Just like here in these devotees, our society. This is penance. They are observing brahmācārya, no illicit sex. That is brahmācārya. Or there is no sex at all. The sannyāsī, brahmacārī, they observe completely celibacy life. And those who are gṛhastha, they have regulated sex life. That is brahmācārya. And as soon as you become brahmacārī, your mind becomes controlled. As soon as your senses are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, your senses are controlled. The automatic yogic process you attain. If you simply try to control the senses, it is very difficult. But if you give the senses engagement, then it is automatic. Because senses must work something. Just like a child. A child at home without engagement, he will simply spoil things, so many. But if you send him to school, give him some engagement, he will be peaceful. Similarly, our senses, we cannot stop the activities of the senses. That is not possible. Just like some foolish people say that "Become desireless." How you can be desireless? I am a living man, living being. I must desire. I cannot be desireless. But if the desire is transformed to Kṛṣṇa... Suppose instead of desiring that "I shall have a very big skyscraper building," if I desire that "I shall have a very big, big temple for Kṛṣṇa." The same desire. But as soon as you desire to have a big skyscraper building, that is material. And as soon as you desire to construct a big temple for Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual. Just like as you get a nice rose flower: as soon as you desire that you shall enjoy it, this is material. And as soon as you desire, "Oh, this is nice flower. I shall go and offer it to Kṛṣṇa," that is spiritual. Simply change the desire. There is no question of desirelessness. Why? We cannot be desireless... That is not possible. Change the... Purify the desire. Purify the desire.

*Therefore bhakti means sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalaṁ [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam. We have to cleanse the desire. We have to cleanse our seeing. Now our eyes want to see some beautiful thing. Now, if we become accustomed to see Kṛṣṇa beautifully decorated, nicely decorated, nicely dressed, then we forget other, so-called material beauty. So the activities of the eyes, to see beautiful thing, is not changed, but it is purified. That is bhakti. Nothing has to be changed or nothing has to be stopped, but the process has to be changed. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta vairāgyam ucyate. We cannot be desireless. We cannot be inactive. That is also not possible. We must be active-but active for working for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is devotional life. That is being taught in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that it is not simply negation. Simply negation will not help you. There must be some positive occupation. So we say, "Do not do this, but do this." We say, "Do not eat meat," but we say, "Eat Kṛṣṇa's nice prasādam, halavā." So he forgets meat-eating. This is our process. We give immediately alternative. You dance. You don't dance in the naked club; dance in the Kṛṣṇa's temple. The dancing is there, but is purified. In the club there are also girls are dancing and boys are dancing. Here also, girls are dancing and boys are..., but they are dancing for Kṛṣṇa ecstasy. So nothing is stopped. This is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you have to simply change your consciousness. Consciousness is there. At the present moment our consciousness is polluted. Just like water. Water is always pure. But when it is... Just like rain falls from the sky. You catch. Before touching the earth, you catch the water, it is distilled water. It is distilled water. Sometimes they catch, they hold the water. It is distilled water. You take so much time to distill water. Rain is distilled water, purified, without any contamination. But as soon as it touches this surface of the earth, it becomes muddy. Similarly, we are also... When we come from Kṛṣṇa, we come pure, but as soon as we touch these material modes of nature, we become muddy, impure, the consciousness. Therefore, as muddy water can be filtered, settled up and filtered and again it becomes clear, similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that however muddy you may be, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness you will be picked up and you will come again clear, crystal like water. This is the process.

*So there is nothing to change, nothing to give up. Simply it is clearing process. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. This clearing process is we should we free from the designations. Just like these boys, American and European or Australian, Japanese, so many... We have got all kinds of students, but they are now devoid of all designations. They are not thinking that "I am American." They are not thinking, "I am Indian." They are thinking always, "I am Kṛṣṇa's servant." This is purification. This is purification. Sarva upādhi. Upādhi. This is designation. I am not American, nor Indian. This is body. This is circumstantial. I am, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, and Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Brahman, and I am Brahman, His eternal servant. This is self-realization. This is called mukti. Muktiḥ hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa avasthitiḥ. This is mukti. Now we are anyathā rūpam. I am thinking Even there are so many human beings here, suppose in Auckland Somebody is thinking, "I am Indian." Somebody is thinking, "I am American." Somebody is thinking, "I am Englishman." So upādhi, that is upādhi. But if we give up this upādhi, designation, that "I am not this..." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught that "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not a kṣatriya. I am not a vaiśya. I am not a śūdra. I am not a sannyāsī. I am not a brahmacārī." These are all upādhi. Then what You are, Sir? Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 13.80] "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is called upādhi-less, or free from all designation. When we become free from all designation, then, in that purified state, if we engage ourself in Kṛṣṇa activities, that is our success of life.

Thank you very much. [break]

Devotee (1): ...somehow or other...



Prabhupāda: You are not outsider. (laughter) First of all outsider. You have got chance. So? No question from outsider? Now you can ask.



Devotee (1): If someone has a desire to do something so that...



Prabhupāda: Do something for Kṛṣṇa?



Devotee (1): For Kṛṣṇa. But he begins to realize it's still tinged with a lot of personal gratification...



Prabhupāda: Therefore he should consult spiritual master. The guide is there. Then it is all right. He should take sanction from Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. If he wants to do something, that's good, but whether that doing is right or wrong you have to know it from Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Is it clear or not? Yes.



Devotee (1): How can one reach the point where he knows that a particular type of service...



*Sruta*-kirti: How can one reach the point where he knows a particular type of service...



Devotee (1): ...will please the spiritual master?



Madhudviṣa: He wants to know how to find out how to please the spiritual master with one service.



*Prabhupāda: The spiritual master has given you so many things to do. Do it. First of all finish that. First of all finish sixteen rounds, observe the regulative principles. First of all... First of all finish this duty. And neglecting this duty, what you can do further? If you cannot finish sixteen rounds chanting, you cannot observe the regulative principles, then what else you can do? First of all finish this duty. Be expert in finishing, executing these duties. Then ask for another duty. And if you finish these duties, automatically Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. One who is actually engaged in the service of the Lord, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam, "I give him intelligence." Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. You will be able to talk with Kṛṣṇa from within if you become sincere. If you cannot execute the preliminary duties, then how you can execute further duty? There is no question.



Madhudviṣa: This is a problem, I think, with many devotees. They have a difficulty distinguishing between their own speculation and the inspiration...



Prabhupāda: Then they should stop speculation. That is their first duty. Devotional life means stop speculation.



Madhudviṣa: Well, what is inspiration then?



Prabhupāda: Inspiration? That inspiration is there. That is very good, that "I shall do something for Kṛṣṇa." So whatever duty is assorted to you or allotted to you, you first execute that duty.



Devotee (2): How important is formal initiation?



*Prabhupāda: Formal initiation means to accept, officially, to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa and His representative. That is formal initiation. Officially accept, "Yes, sir, I shall accept. I shall do whatever you say." This is initiation, official acceptance of the job. That's all. Now, you formally accept, and if you do not do the duties, then where is the question of other function? There is no question. Initiation means this is the beginning of accepting the orders of Kṛṣṇa and His representative to carry out. This is the beginning. That is initiation. Just like if you enter in an office establishment, so you accept the terms of service. That is initiation. Then you go on serving, you become promoted, you get salary increase. You become recognized. You become officer. You become big officer, like that. That very word initiation suggests, "This is the beginning." Dīkṣā, dīkṣā. Di... Divya. There are two words, divya*-jñāna. Divya-jñāna means transcendental, spiritual knowledge. So divya is dī, and jñānam, kṣapayati, explaining, that is kṣa, dī-kṣā. This is called dīkṣā, dīkṣā, the combination. So dīkṣā means the initiation to begin transcendental activities. That is called initiation. Therefore we take promise from the disciple that "You chant so many times," "Yes, sir." "You observe these rules and regulations," "Yes, sir." That is initiation. He has to observe; he has to chant. Then everything comes automatically. In the beginning he is faulty; then how he can make progress? There is no question of in..., what is called? What you were asking?



Madhudviṣa: Inspiration.



Prabhupāda: Inspiration. What is that inspiration? If you have got inspiration, first of all execute this. Inspiration there is. Because we are, by nature, we are servant of Kṛṣṇa, we want to serve. But that should be regulated. That should be regulated. That is initiation. Yes?



Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking about Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23], that any one of these principles, if executed, is sufficient. Now, some devotees may take this to mean that they simply can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't have to do anything else like temple duties or readings or...



*Prabhupāda: That means he is not chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because if he is actually chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, he must be enthusiastic to serve Kṛṣṇa more and more. This is an excuse. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat*-tat-karma-pravar... He must be very enthusiastic. Therefore we have limited. If you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you are so advanced, then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours. But he will sleep. (makes snoring noise) (laughter) So in the name of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you will sleep. And if you are actually chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you will be enthusiastic, "Oh, I shall serve. I shall..." That is effect. Phalena paricīyate. We have to see by the result. He should be enthusiastic more and more. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. It will increase. The service attitude will increase. Therefore we have given all the nine items sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes here, but all Kṛṣṇa's. Actually recommended, all the nine, but even one is accepted sincerely, that also give perfection. That is another thing. But actually, we should accept all the nine items: Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanam... And All right. Yes?



*Devotee (3): How is it possible that Tulasi*-devī is a pure devotee, what we might call a plant?



Prabhupāda: That you cannot know in your impure state. You just become pure. You will understand. (laughter) Just like a physician, he can understand another physician, what is his position. The layman, what he can understand? If you say, physician, "Oh, how I can understand this physician?" How you can understand? You are not a physician. You become a physician, then you will understand what kind of physician he is. So when you become devotee, you will understand what kind of devotee is Tulasi. So long you are not devotee, you cannot understand. Don't expect. Therefore we have to accept the authority. That is beginning. Śāstra says, "Tulasi is the greatest devotee of Kṛṣṇa." We have to accept, that's all. Authority. How she is so great devotee, that you will understand when you become a devotee. You come to the platform; *then you will understand, not before. Now chant. (kīrtana) (Prabhupāda leads prema*-dhvāṇī) (end)





750627SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.15

-

Los Angeles, June 27, 1975



Santoṣa: "The rare person who has completely adopted unalloyed devotional service can uproot all the weeds of sinful activities simply by discharging that service, and there is no possibility that the weeds will grow again. His devotional service is just like the sun, which can immediately dissipate fog simply by its rays."



Prabhupāda:



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



So we have been discussing for the last few days how to become free from the reaction of our sinful life. That is real problem. But people, they have no knowledge what is life, what is sinful life, what is pious life, why we are put into this condition that "We have to do this; *we haven't got to do that." This is real philosophy of life. The āsuras, as we were discussing in this morning walk, they do not know it. Āsurās... Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janāḥ. We are living... In the ordinary life also, we live a little carefully so that we may not fall sick. For that purpose there is very vigilance in the immigration department that in Australia we had some nice mangoes brought from Bombay, and they did not allow to take it. They thought this mango is more dangerous than the dry meat. They will allow importation of dry meat, three hundred years old, (laughter) put into the refrigerator, and that is imported. That is not infectious. But mango, very nice mango, fresh mango*-we started in Bombay at night, and we came in the morning, it has become poisonous. So we are so much precautious that not any germs, infectious disease, may enter. That is there. But what is that infection which has caused me to accept this material body again and again? That they do not know. That they do not know. They do not believe in the next life, and therefore āsurāḥ janāḥ. This is, the symptom or characteristic of the āsurāḥ janāḥ. You should be precautious. That is natural. We become precautious, that "We should not do this so that I may not fall sick." But we do not know what is our real sickness. That we do not know.



*That is being presented by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that "This is your sickness, real sickness." What is that? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You are trying to be unaffected by all kinds of sickness, but your real sickness is this material disease: you take birth, you die, you become old, and you suffer from diseases. This is your real sickness. But who is caring for this? Where is the scientist who are investigating how to stop death, how to stop birth. They are, of course, investigating how to stop birth, but still, birth is going on. This sort of stopping births, by killing the body, is not stopping because the body is not the person. The real person is within the body, within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. We have explained. That they do not know. They are taking... No. By killing the body or by protecting the body, that is not the solution. The solution is that the living entity has infected itself with the material disease. It has to be cured. That is the whole purpose of Vedic civilization, how to cure your material disease.

*So this cure of material disease have been described*-we are discussing-first by atonement. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja did not like it very much because he saw, the atonement is like bathing of the elephant. By atonement we may be free from the infection, but again we do it. Karmaṇā. Then again... That is called karma-kāṇḍa, fruitive activities. Because the bīja, the seed of my sinful desires, that is not cured. For the time being... Just like go to the doctor. You are suffering from a severe disease, and he gives some medicine, takes his fees. That is my atonement, prāyaścitta. But it is no guarantee that I will not fall disease again. So this atonement like that. Many patients, they are suffering from some chronic disease, some venereal disease. They go to the doctor and they give injection, very costly medicine and so much suffering, but as soon as he cure, again he does the same thing so that he is attacked with venereal disease. So this is not very effective way of becoming... Then it was suggested that people, because they are in darkness, āsuras, they do not know how to become immune from all diseases, therefore prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. He suggested, Śukadeva. Vimarśanam: he must be sober, that "I am suffering from some disease, and I am heavily paying the penalty to the doctor, and still, I am doing the same thing?" So therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī suggested, prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Vimarśanam means to become sober and think that "Why I cannot check my desire to do sinful activities?" Then he suggested, to come to that understanding he requires good brain. Ordinary brain, they cannot understand that "Why I am forced to act sinfully although after doing that I suffer? I have committed theft. I am suffer..., I go to jail. Again I come out." So therefore it is called vimarśanam.

*So for vimarśanam-means to become sober*-you require practicing the tapasya. That is also, we have discussed.

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śauchyṁ yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*A series of practice. Then the brain will be clear. So this process also*-not very safe. The example has been given that kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api veṇu-gulmam ivānalaḥ. It is something like burning, setting fire into the dry grass. And superficially it appears that all the grasses are now burned into ashes; there is no possibility of coming out. No. Therefore this very word is there, iva analaḥ. Although superficially, outside, it appears that everything is burned, but the root remains there. The root remains there, and as soon as there will be facility or there will be rainy season, the same grasses and twigs and other things will come out again, new growth. That is... Even after so much tapasya... There are many instances. Just like Viśvāmitra Muni. Viśvāmitra Muni was a king. He wanted to become a brāhmaṇa, and he practiced mystic yoga for many years. Still, he became a victim of a woman, Menakā. He was meditating, closing eyes, and Indra sent this woman, Menakā. And simply by hearing the sound of the bangles, ching, ching, ching, "Oh, there is woman. Yes, very nice," (laughter) all mystic yoga finished. Then he begot one daughter. That..., her name is Śakuntalā, the famous beautiful daughter. So that history is there.



*So the root of our material enjoyment cannot be taken away, cannot be uprooted by... The first process is called karma, and the second process is called jñāna, and the next, it is suggested, bhakti. So he is suggesting that kecit. People are more inclined to take to the... Those who are absolutely in the rotten condition of life, not for then, but those who are little above the rotten condition... Animals. Rotten condition of, means like animals, cats and dogs. Above them, human life, they take to pious activities or meditation or mystic yoga process, just to purify. So these processes are not sufficient. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is suggesting next, kecit. That kecit word is very significant. Kecit means somebody, somebody. Who are the somebody? Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15], pure devotional service. And how they become? Vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ. They become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious person or vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, the same thing. Vāsudeva means Kṛṣṇa, that "Simply I shall worship Kṛṣṇa," kevalayā, "nothing else." This firm conviction and steadiness will save you without any doubt, this conviction. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. Then what is that vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ? That is also not very easy thing. Kṛṣṇa, Vasudeva, says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ and jñānavān mām..., the same thing. When one is fully in awareness what is what, then That awareness also comes-bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, after many many thousands of births, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, jñān..., when he is actually jñānavān, that "What I am, what is my duty," that is actually jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births, when he comes to this, understand that "Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything. So let me. Kṛṣṇa also asking me to surrender. Let me do it immediately," that is called vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ.

In another place, Bhāgavata, it is said that,

vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*Those who have become vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ and engages himself in the service, for them, janayaty āśu vairāgyam, very soon they become detestful to all this material way of life.



*That is the test. How much one has advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can test himself that "How much I have become detestful, all this material way of life?" Everyone can test himself. If he has got still some inclination, then he is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. He has to work very hard, how to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then it is possible. So that is called vāsudeva*-parā. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ is not so easy. Therefore it is said, kecit. Kecit means "maybe somebody." It is not for all. And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā... Who is vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ? Who knows Vāsudeva, who knows Kṛṣṇa. So He says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of millions of persons," manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, "somebody is trying to make his life perfect." Everyone is being carried away by the waves of this material nature: "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." But that is not siddhi. That is imperfection. If you are carried away by the waves of these material necessities, then it is not siddhi. One has to become siddha. Siddha means one who understand that "What I am and what is my duty." That is siddha, perfect. Not... That is the beginning of perfection. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhate [Bg. 7.3]. That siddha, perfection of life, is also not for everyone. Somebody out of millions. And Kṛṣṇa said, yatatām api siddhānām: [Bg. 7.3] "Those who are siddhas, those who have attained perfection, if they are trying to understand Me, maybe one or two may understand." Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścit vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3]. Therefore it is said that to become vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ that is very very rare. Therefore it is said kecit, "somebody out of many millions."

*So one may ask, "If it is so difficult to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, so how so many people are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious? They are not genuine? They are all false? If it is said kecit?" No, they are not false. They are amongst these kecit, amongst those rare persons, those who have become Kṛṣṇa conscious. How? It is due to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has descended to distribute Kṛṣṇa. That is His mercy. So by the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, so many people are becoming vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ. But otherwise, it is not possible. Therefore we first offer our obeisances to Guru-Gaurāṅga, by whose mercy we get Kṛṣṇa. This is the system. Adau gurvāśrayam. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind. Rūpa Gosvāmī could understand, could understand.

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He understood, confidential devotee, Rūpa Gosvāmī, "O my Lord, You are the same Kṛṣṇa. Now You have appeared as Kṛṣṇa*-Caitanya, and Your business is to distribute love of Kṛṣṇa, not only Kṛṣṇa, but love of Kṛṣṇa."



So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy that you are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise, it is not so easy thing; *very, very difficult. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. So stick to this principle. Chant śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. By their favor, by their mercy, we can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, we are vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. There is no more fear. That is required. So you stick to this principle, do not forget. We have already given our ways and instruction. So don't deviate from it. Then everything is perfect and your life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750628SB.DEN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.15

-

Denver, June 28, 1975



Nitāi: Sixth Canto, First Chapter, verse number eight. Tasmāt...



Prabhupāda: We were reading yesterday this fifteenth verse.



Harikeśa: I asked you if you wanted to go back to eight, and you said yes.



Prabhupāda: Who said?



Harikeśa: I thought you did.



Prabhupāda: You thought. I didn't say.



Nitāi: He told me that...



Harikeśa: That's what I thought.



Prabhupāda: You told him, but I didn't say.



Nitāi: (mumbling)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Nitāi: Tasmāt purai...



Prabhupāda: Hmm? Fifteen. [break]



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



*Kecit means "somebody, "very rarely." "Somebody" means "very rarely." It is not so easy thing to become vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ. Yesterday I explained that Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, says that yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhi means perfection of life. Generally they take it aṣṭa-siddhi of yoga practice-aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, siddhi, īśitva, vaśitva, prākāmya. So these are called siddhis, yoga-siddi. Yoga-siddhi means you can become smaller than the smallest. Our actually magnitude is very, very small. So by yoga-siddi, in spite of having this material body, one yogi can come to the smallest size, and anywhere you keep him packed, he will come out. That is called aṇimā-siddhi. Similarly, there is mahimā-siddhi, laghimā-siddhi. He can become lighter than the swab of cotton. The yogis, they become so light. Still there are yogis in India. Of course, in our childhood we saw some yogi, he used to come to my father. So he said that he could go anywhere within very few seconds. And sometimes they go early in the morning to Jagannātha Purī, to Rāmeśvaram, to Haridwar, and take their bathing in different Ganges water and others. That is called laghimā-siddhi. He became very light. He used to say that "We are sitting with our guru and just touching. We are sitting here, and after few seconds we see in a different place." This is called laghimā-siddhi.



*So there are many yoga*-siddhis. People become very much puzzled by seeing these yoga-siddhi. But Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānām: [Bg. 7.3] "Amongst many such siddhas, who have got yoga-siddhi," yatatām api siddhānām kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3], "somebody may understand Me." So one may achieve some yoga-siddhis; *still it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa can be understood only such persons who has dedicated everything to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa wants that, demands, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. Kṛṣṇa is only understandable by His pure devotee, not anyone else. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvaṁ na cānya eko 'pi ciram vicinvan [SB 10.14.29]. Those who are favored by the causeless mercy of Kṛṣṇa, they can understand Kṛṣṇa. Others, na cānya eko 'pi ciram vicinvan. Ciram means for long time, for many years, if they speculate only what is God or what is Kṛṣṇa That process will not help us. There are many Vedic version like that:

*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



*Kṛṣṇa, His name, His fame, His attributes, His activities... Śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved... Nāmādi means "beginning from the holy name." So not possible... So if we keep ourself on the material platform, then for thousand years we may chant, it will be difficult. That is called nāmāparadha. Of course, holy name is so powerful that even by chanting with offense, gradually he becomes pure. Therefore we should not give up chanting. Any circumstances, we should go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But the warning is that if we keep us on the material platform, then it will be not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa, His holy name, His attribute, His form, His activities. It will not be possible.



*So the process is bhakti. And when you come to the platform of understanding Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you become fit for being transferred to the spiritual world. That is... Kṛṣṇa said also in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. So then first of all people do not understand what is the aim of life. They do not care at the present moment. They have no distinction what is sinful life or what is pious life. But we may not believe in these things, but things are there like that. Just like if you infect some disease, it will come out. You believe or not believe, it doesn't matter. Here is our doctor saheb. He knows that if you have infected some disease, it will come out. So we are infecting so many infectious qualities. There are three qualities-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa*-and according to our infection, we have to accept a different type of body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Every one of us, we are working under the modes of material nature, and according to our association we will have to accept a certain type of body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Unfortunately, there is no science, there is no college, there is no university to learn this science of nature, how things are going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti is being there.

*So we are in this material world on account of this infectious condition. This is our problem. And we have to die. That's a fact. If you say that "I don't believe in death," that is not excuse. Death must be there. You must die. So in this way our life is going on. So in the human form of life we can rectify this. This is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that if we rectify our constant association with different material modes of nature... And as the result of this association, we are accepting one body and again dying, and again accepting another body, again dying. This business will be stopped. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Somehow or other, if you become fit to go back to home, back to Godhead, yad gatvā, then you haven't got to come back again. But they do not understand that this material conditional life is always miserable. They have accepted, "It is very nice." Animals. Animals Just like in the slaughterhouse, livestock godown, there are so many animals, and they are going to be slaughtered. Everyone knows. They also know, the animals. But on account of their animal quality, they cannot do anything. Similarly, we are also put into the slaughterhouse of this material world. It is called mṛtyu*-loka. Everyone knows that he will be slaughtered. Today or tomorrow or fifty years after or a hundred years after, everyone knows that he will be slaughtered. He will die. Death means slaughter. Nobody wants to die. The animal also do not like to die. But they are forcibly killed. This is called slaughter. Similarly, who wants to die? Nobody wants to die. But by nature's law he has to be killed. That is slaughterhouse. The whole material world is slaughterhouse. We have to realize that. And it is called mṛtyu-loka. This is the problem. But they do not take it very seriously, like animal. The animal, he does not take very seriously. And even if he knows he will die, he cannot take any step.

*So our mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-sāgarāt, position is like that. Teṣām ahaṁ anukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ. Teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt [Bg. 12.7]. So we should understand our position. Nobody wants to die, but he is slaughtered. Again he is given another chance, another body. Again he is slaughtered. This is the laws of nature, going on. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. We should seriously understand this, that how to stop this slaughtering process of material nature. That is intelligence. Otherwise, to become happy like cats and dogs, "Oh, I am very nicely eating and jumping. I don't care for being slaughtered," that is not very good intelligence. Intelligence is how to stop this slaughtering process of nature. That is intelligence. That is being discussed.

*So anyone can get out of the slaughtering process by devotional service. That is stated here, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. Kecit. That is not very common. Very rarely one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā. Simply by devotional service, one can get out of this dangerous condition of being slaughtered. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. And who are they? Vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ, devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's name is Vāsudeva. He is the son of Vāsudeva; *therefore His name is Vāsudeva. So vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ. Parāyaṇāḥ means "Our ultimate goal is Vāsudeva, nothing more." They are called vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, aghaṁ dhunvanti. Agham means the material contamination. We are always associating with material contamination. So if we become vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19], the same thing. Here it says kecit-means very rarely. And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Sudurlabhaḥ, very rare.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, although it is very rare, we are trying to deliver Kṛṣṇa and love of Kṛṣṇa. So this is the topmost welfare activities to the human society. Because it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa, and we, under certain process, we are delivering Kṛṣṇa, and it is being effective. The process is so nice. Even the Europeans and Americans, they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa five, six years ago. But they are now very serious. Even one priest in Boston, he was astonished that "These boys, Christian boys or the Jewish boys, they are our men. And they did not care to know what is God, what is... Now they are after God. They are mad. How it is?" There are many practical proof. Just like in our many temples. The Los Angeles temple, it was sold by the church because nobody was coming. Nobody was coming. We have many churches purchased in that way. Now you will see in Los Angeles it is always packed up. So we did not bring all these men from India. The men are the local men, and the church is the same church. Why they are coming? Why they are taking interest? So this is the effect of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. He is personally being merciful. He is distributing, Kṛṣṇa Himself. Therefore so quickly. So if we keep ourself in the right way of executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it will be possible*-even in this very life we shall be perfect. Perfection means tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. This body, this material body, we have to give up. Everyone knows. But those who are not becoming perfect, they will have to come back again to accept another body. But those who are developed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this is the final giving up material body, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And try to execute it very carefully, lovingly. Then your life is successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9].

So one who becomes fit for going to the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇaloka, Vaikuṇṭhaloka, where is the question of his sinful reaction? Aghaṁ dhunvanti. No sinful man can go back to home, back to Godhead. So if one is actually, somehow or other, becomes fit for going back to home, back..., that means automatically his sinful reaction of life... One may question how it is. If a man is sinful for many, many lives, how simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious he becomes free from the reaction? Yes. Kṛṣṇa says. You haven't got to take proof from anyone else. Kṛṣṇa says,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]





*Kṛṣṇa says, "I shall give you release from all sinful reaction which you have committed for many, many births." Kṛṣṇa says. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. There is no question of worrying about it, that "Oh, I have committed." But the thing is that after surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, don't commit any more sinful life. Then you are perfect. Whatever you have done is done. It doesn't matter. But after surrendering, if you think, "It is a good business. I have surrendered," no, that is not surrender. Surrender is that sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. He has no other business. That is surrender. You cannot become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and engage in sinful activities. Then it is not surrender. You want to do your business on the strength of Kṛṣṇa's blessing-no. That is not allowed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. All kinds of activities, occupational duty, you should give up. Simply be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service.



*Kṛṣṇa's service... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, in the beginning he was hesitating to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Kṛṣṇa wanted him to fight, to take part in the fight. But he was hesitating. But when he was instructed Bhagavad*-gītā, he understood, he decided, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73], "I shall fight." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have got many programs according to our mental concoction. That will not help us. If we simply act as Kṛṣṇa desires, then our life is perfect. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This is bhakti. Bhakti means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. You have to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness as it pleases Kṛṣṇa, not whimsically. Ānukūlyena. Just like Arjuna got ordered directly from Kṛṣṇa. One may argue that "Where is Kṛṣṇa?" No, you have got Kṛṣṇa's representative, guru. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. The representative is there. If you act according to his instruction, if you want to please him, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Just like in office the managing director or the proprietor is not in contact. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is in contact with everyone: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe [Bg. 18.61]. But even taking this crude example, still, the office superintendent, if he recommends somebody, some clerk, that "This man is working very nice," that is accepted by the managing director. There is no difficulty. Therefore yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo: ** if you want to please Kṛṣṇa, you please Kṛṣṇa's representative... Śrī-guru-caraṇe rati, sei se uttama-gati. We are singing daily. So Kṛṣṇa is not absent. Kṛṣṇa is already within you, but He manifests Himself as guru, prakāśa. This is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

So things are very easily performed if we follow the system of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And we should; we must. It if not that optional. If you make it optional, you will suffer. That is the Vedic injunction. Kṛṣṇa also says, mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. You have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa or become... Otherwise you will suffer by this material energy. That you cannot avoid. So every one of us, at least those who have taken Kṛṣṇa consciousness as their life and soul, they should execute devotional service very sincerely. Then their success is assured.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760108SB.NEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.15

-

Nellore, January 8, 1976





Prabhupāda:



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



*We are discussing this verse, that "Somebody," kecit, "not all." Kecit, "Somebody, simply by acting devotional service, devotional service to Vāsudeva, he immediately finishes all reaction of sinful life." Simply by devotional service unto the Vāsudeva, one can become free from all sinful reaction of life. Bhaktyā means "by devotional service." So bhaktyā, there are nine different processes. [break] ...and the same, but according to our capacity they are divided into nine processes. So it begins with śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam ātma... [SB 7.5.23]. Beginning with śravaṇam, hearing. [break] ...nine processes are hearing, chanting, then worshiping, serving, offering everything. In this way there are nine different ways. The beginning is hearing. Hearing, just you all ladies, gentlemen, you have come here to hear. Then hearing, if your hearing is perfect, then kīrtanam, means describing or preaching.



*So our, this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are first giving chance to the people in general for hearing. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, he specially gave stress on this point of hearing. If you hear, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is never conquered by anyone, but a devotee who is hearing about Him, he can conquer over Him. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, of course, He quoted from Bhāgavatam. Any devotee or bona fide preacher, he does not manufacture anything. He simply follows the previous mahājana. He said, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya. One should not try to speculate to understand the Supreme Truth. So we should give up this habit of speculating to understand God. One should become submissive, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva, that very submissive to hear from the right person. So hearing is so important. Therefore our all Vedic literature is called śruti. So the subject matter which is beyond our sense perception, avāṅ*-manasā gocaraḥ, that cannot be understood by using our imperfect senses. Now the question is: from whom to hear? So in the śāstra it is said, san-mukharitām: "You have to hear from realized saintly person." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*You have to hear from a person who has seen or who has understood the Absolute Truth and who is tat, sad*-guru. He must be a devotee of the Lord.



So it is stated in the śāstra that,

*ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇo vipro

*mantra*-tantra-viśāradaḥ

avaiṣṇava gurur na sa syāt

*sat śva*-paco guruḥ



*It is said that "A brāhmaṇa who is very well expert in the brahminical activities and mantra*-tantra-viśārada, knows all the Vedic mantras, but if he is not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot become guru. But a person born in a family of dog-eaters, śva-paca, he can become guru if he has become Vaiṣṇava." Sanātana Gosvāmī, one of the big ācāryas of Gauḍīya sampradāya, he has also said that avaiṣṇava gurur na sa syāt. Sa. He says that... I forget that verse That "A person..." Pūta-hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇa-pūta-hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. He says that "You do not try to hear from a person who is avaiṣṇava hari-kathāmṛtam." The hari-kathā, the message of Kṛṣṇa like Bhagavad-gītā and other, Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you should not hear from a person who is not a Vaiṣṇava. In the Bhāgavata also it is said, satāṁ prasaṅgāt mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ-kathāḥ. When we hear from sad-vekti(?), or Vaiṣṇava, then we get real effect. So if one argues that "Hari-kathā is pure. Even a avaiṣṇava speaks, what is the harm there?" so Sanātana Gosvāmī said in connection with this that śravaṇaṁ na kartavyaṁ sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk: it is very nice food, but if it is touched with the lips of a snake, it becomes poisonous. Therefore it is concluded that we have to hear the transcendental message of Kṛṣṇa from a realized soul, a devotee.



*So this hearing process is recommended, that you should hear from a realized person who is sadācara*-sampanna-vaiṣṇava. So who is a bhakta? Because you have to learn from a bhakta, so who is a bhakta? That is also described. So it is stated in the śāstras and the Gosvāmīs as sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam: [Cc. Madhya 19.170] "Anyone who has no more designation and he is pure from material contamination." Upādhi means so long we think that "I am this body," that means I am decorated with this upādhi. So long we think that "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," we are decorated with upādhi. Upādhi-śūnya is described in the Vedas, when one understands ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So there are two Brahmans: Parabrahman and ordinary Brahman. Parabrahman is the Supreme, vibhu, and ordinary Brahman, they are anu. Parabrahman is all-pervading, and Brahman is not all-pervading. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Kṣetra, kṣetrajña, when He was describing Kṣetra means this body, and kṣetrajña means the soul who knows about his body.

*So there are two kṣetrajñas. One kṣetrajña is the jīva, soul, and another kṣetrajña is Paramātmā, Bhagavān. [break] ...clearly distinguished by Kṛṣṇa that kṣetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "You are not only kṣetrajña." The jīva soul is kṣetrajñā. He knows, just like you know, I know, "It is my body." So there are two kṣetrajñas. One kṣetrajña I am. Just like I know this is my body, you know this is your body, but I do not know what is going on in your body, you do not know what is going on in my body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ca, eva, kṣetrajñaṁ ca api māṁ viddhi: "Not only you are kṣetrajña; *I am also kṣetrajña because I am Parambrahman, or Supersoul." But what is difference between these two kṣetrajñas ? The difference is that one kṣetrajña knows about his own body, but the super*-kṣetrajña, he knows everyone's body. So in this way if we understand our position, that Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the great and we are small, that is perfect knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa commands, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. As the master commands the servant that "What, rascal, you are doing? What I say, you do it." [break] There are two living entities: one, the superior, who orders, and the other, inferior, who carries out the order. This is further explained in the Fifteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. He says, Lord Kṛṣṇa said, that "I am situated in everyone's heart. I am giving order." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam. And then the jīvātmā gets knowledge and carries it out.

*So when one is perfectly in knowledge of kṣetra, kṣetrajña, then his devotional life begins. This understanding of the relationship between God and ourself is more clearly explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He says, jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our real identity is that we are eternally servant of God. This understanding, pure understanding, is called mukti. When we understand that "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is my eternal master, and I am eternal servant of Him," that is called mukti. The mukti definition is given in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: mukti hitva anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa avasthiti. Mukti means when we give up our wrong ideas and we stay in our real identification. That is called mukti. So a bhakta who understands clearly that "I am eternal servant of God, and God is my eternal master," this very understanding means mukti. If I wrongly think that "I am something of this material world" or "I am God myself," these are misunderstanding. There is no question of mukti. Here the word is kecit kevalayā: "somebody." The purpose is that most people, they are either karmīs or jñānīs. Karmīs or jñānīs. Karmīs means those who are working very hard day and night for sense gratification, and jñānis means after being frustrated in such activities, he tries to give up this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. This is not jñāna, that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If brahma is satya, then jagat is also satya. Jñāna means to know real fact. The real fact is that is (as) Brahman is satya, anything which is emanated from Brahman, that is also satya. In the Vedānta-sūtra it begins like this: athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Now we have to inquire about Brahman." So about this description, Brahman, yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. And in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Anything which is emanating... Everything which is emanating from a particular source, that is Brahman. So what is that original source of everything? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "From Me everything is emanating." Therefore Kṛṣṇa is Parambrahman. Therefore the conclusion is that if you come to the platform of bhakti, then automatically you become liberated. So it is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā,

mam cāvyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



In order to become mukta or Brahman platform, one has to render unalloyed service to the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa.



*So here it is said, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. Kecit, somebody*-not the karmīs, not the jñānīs, not the yogis-can execute devotional service. The karmīs, it is openly known that they want to enjoy. They want something. Similarly, jñānīs, they want to become one with the Supreme. That is also wanting something. The yogis also, they want something, some mystic power. So karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, all of them wanting something. The subject matter of want may be different, but a bhakta, he does not want anything. He simply wants to be engaged in carrying out the orders of the Supreme Lord. But such person is very, very rare. [break] ...out of many millions of karmīs, one may be jñānī. And out of many millions of jñānīs, one may become mukta. And out of many, many millions of muktas, one may become a bhakta. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhaye means to become perfect jñānī or perfect yogi. And yatatām api siddhānām: and amongst the siddhas, those who have got perfection in jñāna and yoga, kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ: "Some of them may." Not some of them. "May be someone is able to understand Me." Therefore in this verse it is clearly said kecit, the same thing. Kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. To become a bhakta is not so easy. Therefore he says, kecit: "somebody." Somebody, eka personality, may become a bhakta. So kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15].

*Kevalayā. Kevalayā means unalloyed, pure. Kevalayā bhakti means śuddha*-bhakti, unalloyed bhakti. Otherwise bhakti is sometimes mixed with jñāna and sometimes mixed with yoga, mixed with karma. [break] ...because karmīs, jñānīs, and yogis, they have got some desire to be fulfilled. The karmīs, they want to be elevated to the heavenly planet, the jñānīs, they want to become one with the Supreme Lord, and the yogis, they want some power to exhibit so that they may be honored as God. [break] The yoga, mystic power, aṇimā, laghimā, siddhi, like that. But bhakti means one must be freed from all these desires. Therefore Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī gives the definition of bhakti, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: [Brs. 1.1.11] "without any other desire." "Other" means bhukti, mukti, siddhi: to enjoy this material world or to become one with the God or to get some mystic power. So the bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam, no karmī's desire, no jñānī's desire, no yogi's desire. So anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. So one should be cleansed from the desires of jñāna, karma, yoga. He should be desireless. So these are all material desires. So when one gives up these material desires, then he is desireless. But one cannot be desireless. That is not possible. Then he is dead and gone. So desirelessness means no material desires. So we cannot be desireless, but desirelessness means no bhukti, no yogic siddhi, neither oneness, monism, to merge into the Supreme. These are all material desires. So bhakti means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. That is first-class bhakti, when we are ready to serve Kṛṣṇa as He orders. So to become ready to serve Kṛṣṇa is desirelessness. Otherwise a living entity, a living being, cannot be desireless.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching how to become desirous to serve Kṛṣṇa. This teaching, perfection of instruction, we find in the Bhagavad*-gītā when Arjuna says kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]: "I shall execute what You order me." Te vacanaṁ tava: "I shall execute any order which You order me." Arjuna was a warrior, soldier. When he was... Before his hearing Bhagavad-gītā he was a soldier, and after hearing Bhagavad-gītā he remained a soldier. But in the beginning of the fight he was not willing to fight with his brothers. Although Kṛṣṇa was speaking to him that "You fight," he was declining. This is the stage of abhakta, or nondevotee. Although mundane person will very much be pleased that "Arjuna was not willing to fight. He is nonviolent," but Kṛṣṇa was not accepting. So fighting is not a good business, so Arjuna was declining to fight. It was good from the worldly point of view. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa inquired from Arjuna, "What you have decided?" Arjuna replied, naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]: "Now I am quite in knowledge. I shall execute Your order." This is mukti. When we are prepared to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa, that is the platform of mukti. Therefore it is said, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ [SB 6.1.15]. Simply by executing the order of Vasudeva one becomes mukta. Just like master and servant. If the servant executes the order of the master, he is faultless. If the servant declines to execute the order of the master, however qualified he may be, he is useless. So therefore it is said, kevalayā bhaktyā: "without any contamination, simply ready to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa, or Vasudeva." Therefore it is called vāsudeva-parāyaṇā. Therefore it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is confirmed, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births of struggling, when one is actually jñānavān, wise, he surrenders unto Me." So either you become karmī, jñānī, or yogi, you are not mukta. Mukta means, I have already defined, mukti hitva anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa avasthiti. When you stay in your own original position to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa, that is mukti.

So in the previous verses the mode of progress is tapasa brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena vā [SB 6.1.13]. These things are to be executed. But here in these verses, simply if you become a pure devotee, then it is to be understood that you have already executed tapasā, brahmācārya, śama, dama, everything. As soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa...

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇam

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



That our miserable condition of life is due to our material attraction or pāpa, impious activities. Here it is confirmed that kevalayā bhaktyā, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena: totally you can kill all reaction of sinful activities. And a very good example is given here: nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Nīhāra means fog. In the fog you cannot see what is there in your front. But as soon as there is sunrise, immediately fog is dissipated. Therefore,



bahūnāṁ janmanam ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



When we understand that Vāsudeva is the Supreme, sa mahātmā, then we become the great mahātmā.



*So if you accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life of ignorance will finish and you come to the light and become liberated. If you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the light is there. Therefore the darkness of life is dissipated. Therefore it is said, ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim: [Nārada*-pañcarātra] "If you have learned how to worship Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then there is no more use of your tapasya." [break] ...ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim: "And if you cannot understand Hari, then what is the use of your tapasya?" Antar-bahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim: "If you can see Hari, Kṛṣṇa, within yourself and outside yourself, then what is the use of tapasya?" Nantar-bahir, antar-bahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim: "And if you have not learned to see Kṛṣṇa, Hari, within yourself and outside, then what is the use of your tapasya?"

So this movement is giving the chance to everyone. It doesn't mean for any particular nation, particular country, or particular person. For everyone. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "All over the world." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All over the world, in every village and every town, this message will be spread," and that is being done now. So it is a great movement. I request you all to join wholeheartedly.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760515SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.15

-

Honolulu, May 15, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter One, verse number fifteen.



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



So karma, jñāna, yoga, then bhakti. So karmaṇā, karma niyahara na tantritaṁ bhaviṣyati(?). We have discussed this. By karma you cannot nullify another... [break] Everyone has got that tendency. The śāstra gives them chance to act, fruitive activities, because while working, working, one day it will come when he will be not interested, working any more. Then athāto brahma jijñāsā, jñāna. Jñāna also, theoretical. It has been seen that theoretical knowledge, even one has come to the platform of Brahman... Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32]. There are many examples. Simply theoretical knowledge will not help us. Our main aim is how to become perfect.



*So by karma we cannot become perfect perpetually. Just like I have given several times the example that in spite of so much education and universities and advancement of civili..., nobody is perfect in the modern civilization, not even honest. In spite of education, so much learning... I have given this example many times. This is tested in the airport, that everyone is examined about his dishonest. That means nobody is honest. So this will not help. If you want to make the world perfect, then not by karma, neither by mental speculation. That is not possible. The only means is bhakti, especially in this age. In this Kali*-yuga people are very much embarrassed. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutaḥ [SB 1.1.10]. Manda-bhāgyā. Even nobody is happy in his family life, so unfortunate, manda-bhāgyā. That is practical. So these things will not help, especially in this age.

So Śukadeva Gosvāmī suggested for kecit, "somebody," not all. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness understanding is very easy, at the same time very difficult. So therefore here it is said, kevalā bhaktyā. Kevalā means only bhakti, without any jñāna, karma, yoga. That is kevalā bhakti. That is pure devotion, bhakti. Tan manye adhītam uttamam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was asked by his father that "What the best thing you have learned? What is the best thing?" he said this: kevalā bhakti. Kevalā bhakti.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sākhyam ātma*-nive...

[SB 7.5.23]



*If we simply stick to these principles of kevalā bhakti, even simply by hearing, śravaṇaṁ... Just like we are holding class everywhere, in every center. If somebody simply hears attentively, he'll be perfect. This is bhakti, simply hearing. Or śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, or describing or chanting the holy name, he'll be perfect. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu... But Viṣṇu, about Lord Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtana [SB 1.2.17]. If you simply hear and chant, then you will be purified. One who is chanting and one who is hearing, both of them will be purified. And gradually, as soon as one is purified, he becomes pious. If you argue that "Somebody is hearing for so many years," so then there is question of offense. Offense, ten kinds of offense, you know. While you are initiated the ten kinds of... So even one is in offense, still, if he continues hearing and chanting, he will be purified. It is so nice thing. This is kevalā bhakti.



*But there should not be any motive. That you should be very careful. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], no motive. Bhakti, bhaj*-dhātu, simply pure desire, "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa?" Then he is mukta. Immediately he is liberated. One who has this fixed-up mind, that "How I shall render service to Kṛṣṇa?" and if he tries his best, then he becomes immediately mukta unless he changes his decision. That is... Every time is possible. Even one is mukta, liberated, he can be also fallen down unless he is very strong in his determination. Māyā is always there. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. But if one is determined that "I shall stick to the service of Kṛṣṇa," māyā will not touch. That is kevalā bhakti. If sometimes it appears that he has deviated out of past habit, that is excused. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. But not intentional. We should not fall down and deviate from our path of devotional service intentionally. That will not... That is very great criminality. We must try our best, kevalayā bhaktyā.

*So kecit. Kecit means this determination is very difficult. Therefore it has been said here, kecit, "somebody," not all. Not all can get that determination. But everyone can get determination, provided he likes. It is not determination is monopolized by a certain man. Anyone who determines that "I shall simply serve Kṛṣṇa," that simple determination will save him. Kevalayā bhaktyā. And kecit kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ [SB 6.1.15]. Bhaktyā, bhakti, devotion, to whom? Vāsudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. If one determines that "Vāsudeva is everything..." Actually Kṛṣṇa is everything. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā. In everywhere. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat [Īśo mantra 1]. Everywhere there is Kṛṣṇa's relationship, because without Kṛṣṇa, nothing exists. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyaktya, mat-sthani sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 9.4]. Everything is resting on Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Without Kṛṣṇa... So that is the fact, but when you come to this understanding, then you become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Without Kṛṣṇa, nothing can exist.

*So vāsudeva*-parāyaṇā-agham. Agham means sin, sinful reaction of life. Dhunvanti, "one washes." Just like dirty thing, if you bring bucket of water and wash it, then everything cleansed immediately. So this process of chanting is so nice that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. It cleanses the heart, misunderstanding that "I am this body. I belong to this nation. I belong to this community. I belong to this religion." No. "I belong to Kṛṣṇa," that's all. This is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is real knowledge, real perfection, as soon as one comes to this conclusion, that "Kṛṣṇa is mine, and I am Kṛṣṇa's," simply this understanding. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. So by this consciousness automatically all reaction of sinful life becomes washed. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena, totally. How? How it is possible? "He has accumulated sinful reaction of life for so many births, and simply...?" Yes, it is possible. "How?" Now, nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. When there is, what is called? Frost.

Devotee: Fog.



Prabhupāda: Fog, yes. When there is fog, you try so many ways; it cannot go. Then, if somehow or other sun rises, immediately finished. Immediately clear. That is our motto in the Back to Godhead: "Godhead is light and nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead, there is no jurisdiction of darkness."



*kṛṣṇa sūrya*-sama māyā andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyā adhikāra

[Cc. Madhya 22.31]



As soon as there is sunshine, immediately the fog is... It's practical.



*So somehow or other, Kṛṣṇa, if we get Kṛṣṇa arisen in our heart... Sa vai manaḥ*-kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. If we simply concentrate our mind, that is real meditation, to think of Kṛṣṇa-man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]-then everything will be cleansed automatically. Kṛṣṇa says in the...

*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



Kṛṣṇa is there already, just like friend. Kṛṣṇa is always ready to give us instruction so that we can get out of this miserable condition of life. Kṛṣṇa is ready. He is coming to give you instruction. Simply you have to follow; then everything will be all right.



*So this is the only way. Otherwise in this age severe austerity, tapasya, celibacy, charity, and so on, recommended. Tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ yamena niyamena vā. These are the methods, gradual process of transcendental life. But in this age, especially in this Kali*-yuga, it is very, very difficult, almost impossible. So best thing is take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, kevalayā bhaktyā, simply this understanding, that "Kṛṣṇa is my eternal master; I am Kṛṣṇa's eternal servant. So let us exchange our feelings of master and servant. Then I shall be perfect."

Thank you very much. (end)



750629SB.DEN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.16

-

Denver, June 29, 1975



*Nitāi: (Purport:) "Tat*-puruṣa means a person engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness as the spiritual master." Translation: "My dear King, any sinful person, by practicing the principles of austerity, penance, brahmacarya and other practices, cannot become completely purified as one can by dedicating his life to the service of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet under the direction of the Lord's bona fide devotee."



Prabhupāda:



*na tathā hy*-aghavān rājan

pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ

*yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇas

*tat*-puruṣa-niṣevayā

[SB 6.1.16]



*We are discussing the process of purification. Different methods have been described, by prāyaścitta and by tapasya. We have discussed. And then kevalayā bhakta. Bhakti includes everything-karma, jñāna, yoga, everything. And it is specially recommended that by austerities and other methods, there is possibility, but it may not be successful. But if we adopt this process, devotional service, then it is sure. So this purificatory process means nivṛtti-mārga. And pravṛtti-mārga means without any knowledge where we are going on, rushing on-we are doing everything, whatever we like*-that is called pravṛtti-mārga. People are generally engaged in pravṛtti-mārga. Especially in this age, they do not care what is going to happen next. Therefore they feel relief that "There is no life after death. Let us enjoy this life to the best capacity. Then after death, never mind what will come." First of all, they deny to believe the next life. And even there is next life, and even if I am going to become cats and dogs, they do not mind. This is the experience of the modern age, irresponsible life.



But our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people that "Don't live irresponsibly." Take, for example, that you may say, "There is no life." But if I put the argument, "Suppose there is life..." Now this is also supposition, because nobody, those who are in ignorance, they do not know whether there is life or whether there is no life. So you are arguing, "There is no life," but you do not know whether there is life. That is not in your knowledge. So supposing you have to take both the ways and think over it... You are simply thinking on the point that there is no life. Now, why don't you take my proposition, "If there is life"? Because you have not ascertained whether there is life. We say there is life. We take the example: just like this child has got his next life. The child may say, "There is no life next life." But actually that is not the fact. The fact is, there is life. The child will change this body and he will become a boy. And the boy will change this body; he will become young man. That is a fact. But by simply obstinacy if you say there is no life, that you can say. But take this argument: if there is life, then how much irresponsibly you are making your future life so dark? The same example: if a child does not go to school, does not take education, if he thinks, "There is no other life than this life, I shall play all day. Why shall I go to school?" he may say so, but there is life, and if he does not take education, in next life, when he is young man, if he is not posted in a good position then he suffers. This is irresponsible life.

*So before we get next life, we must be free from all sinful lifes. Otherwise we are not going to have better life. Especially going back to home, back to Godhead, one has to finish the resultant action of his sinful life in this life. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find,

*yeṣām tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇāṁ

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*To become a staunch devotee of Kṛṣṇa, perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa, means one has become freed from all reaction of sinful life. Yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpam. No more committing any sinful activities. And whatever sinful activities he had done in his previous life, that is also negated. That is also made negation. There is no more reaction. Yeṣām tu anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. So people are engaged either in sinful activities or in pious activities. So those who have not only finished the resultant action of their past sinful activities but at the present moment, they are simply engaged in pious activities, such person, yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te, such person, dvandva-moha-nirmuktā, without any hesitation, without any doubt, bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. That is the So anyone who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service with firm conviciton and devotion, it is to be understood that he is now free from all reaction of sinful activities. A Vaiṣṇava never commits any sinful activities, and whatever he had done in the past, that is also finished. This is said by Kṛṣṇa. Or in other words, if you devoutly engage yourself in the service of the Lord, then certainly you are freed from all reaction of sinful activities.



*So how it is possible? Yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇaḥ. Prāṇaḥ, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Prāṇa, prāṇa means life. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Kṛṣṇa, such person How this dedication of life to Kṛṣṇa's service can be made possible? That is also stated here: tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. You have to take shelter of a person who is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and you have to serve. That means you have to accept a devotee, a true devotee, a pure devotee, as your guide. That is our process. The Rūpa Gosvāmī says in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, "The first process is, first step is ādau gurvāśrayam to accept guru." Accept guru Guru means Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who is not Kṛṣṇa's representative, he cannot become guru. Guru does not mean any nonsense can become guru. No. Only tat-puruṣa. Tat-puruṣa means a person who has accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead as everything. Tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. That means Vaiṣṇava, pure devotee. So it is not very difficult. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa there are pure devotees, so one has to take shelter of him. Ādau gurvāśrayam. Then sad-dharma-pṛcchāt: after accepting a bona fide spiritual master, one should be inquisitive to learn what is the science of Kṛṣṇa. Sad-dharma-pṛcchāt sādhu-mārga-anugamanam. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness means one has to follow the footsteps of the devotees, sādhu-mārga-anugamanam.

So who are those sādhus? That is also mentioned in the śāstra, we have already discussed.

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



*That two..., twelve personalities are mentioned especially, that they are mahājana, they are authorized, bona fide guru, and you have to follow their path. It is not difficult. So Svayambhū means Lord Brahmā. Svayambhūḥ nāradaḥ śambhuḥ. Śambhu means Lord Śiva. So each of them, out of these twelve mahājana, four are very prominent, that is, Svayambhū means Brahmā, and then śambhuḥ, Lord Śiva, and then kumāraḥ. And there is another sampradāya, Śrī sampradāya, from Lakṣmījī. So we have to accept a spiritual master who are strictly in these four line of disciplic succession. Then we shall be gainer. If we accept a so*-called guru, then it will not be possible. We have to accept guru in the disciplic succession. Therefore it is recommended here, tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā: we have to serve him faithfully and always honestly. Then our purpose will be served. And if you take to this line of action, dedicating life to Kṛṣṇa and always engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa under the direction of tat-puruṣa-means who has no other business than to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness-then our life is successful. We become free from all sinful reaction, and without being purified... Because Kṛṣṇa, or God, is pure. Arjuna said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ brahma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, You are the supreme pure." So unless we are pure we cannot approach Kṛṣṇa. That is the statement in the śāstra. Without becoming fire, you cannot enter into fire. Similarly, without becoming completely pure, you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That is accepted by all religious system. The Christian system is also like that, that without becoming pure you cannot enter into the kingdom of God.



*So the human life is meant for this purification. We are working very hard for getting our daily bread. People are not getting their bread sitting idly. That is not possible. They are working very hard. This nice city of Denver is there. It has not sprung up from the jungle or desert. One had to work very hard to make this city so nicely, perfectly standing. So we have to work. If we want happiness, then we have to work. There is no doubt about it. But Kṛṣṇa says that yānti deva*-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. Somebody is working to become happy within this material atmosphere by becoming very big man within this world, or a little more intelligent, they are not happy in this life, but they want to become happy in the next life. Sometimes they go to the higher planetary system. So yānti deva-vratā devān pitṛn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. So as you work, you get the desired result. But at the last line, Kṛṣṇa says, mad-yājino'pi yānti mām: "If you work or if you worship Me, then you come to Me." Then where is the difference between going to Kṛṣṇa and keeping within this material world? The difference is ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. In this material world even if you go to the topmost planet, Brahmaloka, still, there is birth, death, old age and disease. Or you have to return back again. Just like these people are going to the moon planet and again coming back here. So this kind of going and coming back here is not good. Yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]. If you go to such planet wherefrom you haven't got to come back again to this material world, that is highest perfection. That is Kṛṣṇaloka.

*So Kṛṣṇa says that "If you are working so hard to become happy in this material world, the same labor, if you worship Me, Kṛṣṇa, then you come to Me." Mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām. What is the benefit especially? Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti: [Bg. 8.15] "Anyone who comes to Me, he hasn't got to come back again to this material world." So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people how to go back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. That will make the people happy eternally. So in this life also, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they are not unhappy. You can see practically. We are sitting in a very nice room and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and taking prasādam. Where is unhappiness? There is no unhappiness. And other processes, they have to undergo so many unhappy processes. Here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is nothing unhappiness. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: susukham kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. Susukham. When you execute devotional service, it is not only sukham-sukham means happiness-but another word is added, susukham, "very comfortable, very happy." Kartum, to execute devotional service, is great pleasure, great happiness. And avyayam. Avyayam means whatever you do, that is your permanent asset. Other things, that is finishable. Suppose you are very much advanced educated person. You have passed M.A., Ph.D., and something, something. But it is not avyayam; *it is vyayam. Vyayam means it is finishable. As soon as your body is finished, your so*-called degrees all finished. Then again next life if you become a human being, of course again there is chance of becoming M.A., Ph.D., but the first M.A., Ph.D. in this life, that is finished.

*So whatever we are acquiring here, that is not avyayam. Vyayam means expenditure, and a means "not," not expenditure. If you have got some money, if you spend, then it is vyayam, finished after some time. Avyayam means you spend as much, still not finished. That is avyayam. So devotional service of Kṛṣṇa is explained as susukhaṁ kartum avyayam. Whatever you do, if you have attained success ten percent, that ten percent your permanent. Therefore it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. Those who could not finish the bhakti-yoga in this life, they get another chance of human life. Not only human life, it is stated they go to the heavenly planet, they enjoy there, and then again come back in this planet. And that also not ordinary man. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe: he takes birth in very sanctified family, just like brāhmaṇa-Vaiṣṇava, śucīnām, and śrīmatām, very rich family. Then it is his duty. So those who are born rich... You Americans, you are supposed to be born rich. Actually it is so. So you should think in this term, that "Due to our previous devotional service, by Kṛṣṇa's grace we have got our birth in this country. There is no poverty," śrīmatām. So you should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously. You have got the opportunity. You are not poverty-stricken. You haven't got to waste your time, "Where is food? Where is food? Where is food?" Just like in other, poverty-stricken country, they are embarrassed to find out food. But you are very fortunate, so don't waste this opportunity by becoming hippies. Don't waste. Become devotee, Kṛṣṇa's devotee. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there, and we have got so many centers. Just try to learn this Kṛṣṇa consciousness science and make your life perfect. That is our request.

Thank you very much. (end)



760516SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.16

-

Honolulu, May 16, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, chapter one, verse number sixteen.



na tathā hy aghavān rājan

pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ

*yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇas

*tat*-puruṣa-niṣevayā

[SB 6.1.16]



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī said already that kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15], "Simply by devotional service," vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ, "one has become attached to Vāsudeva." This stage is very difficult but very easy also. For the simple person it is very easy, and those who are crooked, demons, for them it is very difficult. So in another place it is stated in the First Canto,



vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yoga prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*The whole idea is that we are in this material world. That is miserable. Under the spell of illusion, we are thinking we are very happy. They do not know is actually happiness. What is happiness? But there is no argument for these rascals. They are thinking they are very happy. That is māyā's prakṣepātmika-śakti, covering energy. Just like you are seeing a hog eating stool, but he is thinking that he's very happy. But you are seeing, "Oh, what abominable life. He's eating stool." So this is the position. Those who are advanced in civilization, for them eating of stool is unthinkable. But for the hogs and dogs, it is very palatable. This is the difference. Just like we are recommending, "No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling." So somebody is thinking, "Then what remains to enjoy? Everything is finished. Life is finished."



*So according to different grades of person, the taste is also different. You cannot expect that the taste will be the same. "One man's food, another man's poison." This is an English proverb. One man's food is another man's poison. Therefore the society is divided. That is scientific method, class. Cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. That is God's creation, four classes, men. And the fifth class is almost rejected. Up to fourth class. First class, second class, third class, fourth class. And below fourth class, from fifth class, they are not human being. So taste of different classes are different. But one thing is that in whichever class we may belong, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll become one. People are wanting unity. There is United Nation organization, but so long we keep ourself on the material platform there cannot be unity. That is not possible. Only in the spiritual platform there can be unity.

*So here it is said that aghavān. Aghavān means sinful. Agha means sin and vān means... Just like Bhagavān. Bhagavān means one who has bhaga, or opulence, or fortune. That is called bhagavat. And just the opposite is called aghavat. This is Sanskrit language. Bhagavān means the most opulent, topmost place, Bhagavān. And aghavān means lowest place. So here it is said that one has to become aghavān to the stage of Bhagavān. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: not to remain aghavān, but to become Bhagavān. Bhagavān, of course, means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are very, very advanced, recognized by Bhagavān, they are also sometimes called Bhagavān. Just like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahma, Nārada Muni, on their status, sometimes they are called Bhagavān. Nowadays it has become a fashion to become Bhagavān. So Bhagavān is not so cheap. Everyone is aghavān. But if he wants to become Bhagavān or in the higher status, higher level, then it is recommended, "Let him take to the devotional service." Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti*-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam. To become Bhagavān, not Bhagavān but on the level, means highest stage, two things required. One thing is jñāna and one thing is vairāgya. Jñāna and vairāgya. Because we are in this material world, miserable condition, but we have no knowledge that we are in a very miserable condition. That is ajñāna. As soon as one understands that this is miserable condition of life... That was presented by Sanātana Gosvāmī before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said... He was minister and very opulent position, very good associates. Because he was minister, so his associates were also very big men. But he resigned. He resigned. That is vairāgya. So why? To understand what is the aim of life. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Therefore he came to Caitanya Mahāprabhu for understanding the value of life. So he presented himself that grāmya vyavahāre kaha ei paṇḍita: "So in this ordinary behavior they call me paṇḍita, learned. But..." Satya kari māni: "I also accept it that I am paṇḍita or learned. But actually, my position is, I do not know what I am. I am such a paṇḍita, such a learned man."

*So we are in ignorance. We do not know. We are accepting this body as "I am." So many animal propensities, animal condition. So if we remain in animal condition of life, then that is aghavān. When one is in animal condition, that means more sinful. So we have to become sinless. That requires jñāna*-vairāgya. Jñāna-vairāgya. So jñāna, vairāgya can be attained very easily if one becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayo... This is the verdict of all Vedic literatures, that if one becomes devotee, then he'll develop his original good qualities. Because we are part and parcel of God, so we have got good qualities. It is covered now by material contamination. That gold, gold is gold, but it is covered by mud, dirty things, one cannot understand whether is it gold or something else. So our position is like that. So when we are free from these dirty things, then our original life becomes manifest. That is called mukti. Mukti hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpea avasthiti. Mukti means now we are differently contaminated situation. Roga-mukti. There is a verse, roga-mukti. One is suffering from fever, and when there is no more fever it is called mukti. Similarly, we are suffering on account of this diseased condition. This material life means diseased condition. It is not our real, but they do not know. They do not know. They are thinking this is life. But this is not life. They have no information. So this sinful life, suffering. Sinful means, when we are sinful, then we suffer.

*So by bhakti*-yoga, as it is stated in the previous verse, kevalayā bhaktyā... So the same again being stressed. Na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ [SB 6.1.16]. Before explaining bhakti-yoga, Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that to become purified, general process is,

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena damena vā

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*These are the general process. But to overcome this general process if one... That is already explained, that kārtsnyena. Just like fog is immediately driven away if there is sunrise, bhakti is so strong. Then he is again saying that pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ. If we practice tapa, especially in this age, it is very, very difficult. Tapaḥ. Tapasya, austerities. But if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness it becomes very soon available. Yathā kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇaḥ. Prāṇa means life and arpita means dedicated. Kṛṣṇārpita. If one dedicates his life for Kṛṣṇa, yathā kṛṣṇārpita prāṇas tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. Tat-puruṣa, you... It is impossible to dedicate our life to Kṛṣṇa unless we serve the devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. You cannot approach Kṛṣṇa directly. That is not possible. You have to go through His devotee. Therefore Kṛṣṇa sends His devotee, "Go and deliver them." Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He did not know how to achieve the favor of Supreme Personality of Godhead, but on account of his eagerness... He wanted to see God. Because he was kṣatriya... His mother said that "God can only help you, my dear son. If you want to become king on the throne of your father, better position, then only God can help you. I cannot help you. It is not..." So he was determined, "I must see God." So he went to the forest but he did not know how to approach God. A boy of five years old only, he has got the determination. So Kṛṣṇa saw that "This boy is very determined." Therefore He sent His representative, Nārada: "Go and train him. He is very eager."



*Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. You can enter into the devotional service by double mercy. One mercy is Kṛṣṇa; *another mercy is the spiritual master. Therefore here it is said, the same thing, kṛṣṇārpita*-prāṇas tat-puruṣa niṣevayā. One cannot be kṛṣṇārpita prāṇaḥ, one cannot dedicate his life to Kṛṣṇa, unless he has gotten the mercy of spiritual master. This is the way. You cannot get directly. That is not possible. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said in many of his songs, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā, nistāra pāyeche kebā: "Without serving Vaiṣṇava, who has got liberation?" Nobody has.

*tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi bhakta-sane vās

janame janame mora ei abhilāṣ



*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that "I have to serve the gurus, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, and live in the association of devotees." Tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi bhakta-sane vās. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, janame janame mora, ei abhilāṣ. Our... We are... Ambition should be how to serve Kṛṣṇa through the disciplic succession, guru, and live in the association of devotees. This is the process. So we are opening so many centers all over the world. This is the policy, that people may take chance of associating with devotees and the chance of serving the Vaiṣṇava. Then it will be successful.



*Therefore here it is said, bhakti*-yoga means not only dedicating life to Kṛṣṇa but also to serve the Vaiṣṇava, tat-puruṣa. Tat-puruṣa means to serve a person who has dedicate his life to Kṛṣṇa. Two things: dedication to Kṛṣṇa and dedication to the devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So in this way if we advance, then it is very easy to become free from this material contamination. That is stated. Na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ [SB 6.1.16]. Tapa-ādibhiḥ, it is general process, but it is very, very difficult, especially in this age. So if we simply take this course, that dedicate life to Kṛṣṇa and dedicate life to Vaiṣṇava, then our life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750630SB.DEN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.17

-

Denver, June 30, 1975



*Nitāi: "In this material world, following the path of the pure devotees who are well behaved and completely endowed with first*-class qualifications due to their having fully taken to the service of Nārāyaṇa as their life and soul is certainly the most auspicious, without any fear, and authorized by the śāstra."



Prabhupāda:



sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke

*panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto*-bhayaḥ

suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra

*nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ

[SB 6.1.17]



*So the śāstra says that the association of devotees... Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ means devotees. Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa, one who has taken Nārāyaṇa as the ultimate goal of life. Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu*-They are of the same tattva, viṣṇu-tattva. So people do not know this, that to approach the platform of worshiping Nārāyaṇa or Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa, that is the most exalted and assured platform. Just like we get insurance, so this is assured. Assured by whom? Assured by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is assuring, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa man... [Bg. 9.30]. So many assurances there. Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa. Kṛṣṇa says personally that "I shall protect you." People suffer on account of sinful reaction, ignorance. Out of ignorance, they commit sinful action, and sinful action reacts. Just like a child, ignorant, he touches blazing fire, and it burns the hand, and he suffers. You cannot say that "Child is innocent, and the fire has burned." No. This is nature's law. Ignorance. So sinful activities are done out of ignorance. Therefore one should be in knowledge. Ignorance of law is no excuse. If you go to the court and if you plead, "Sir, I did not know that I have to suffer, I have to go to imprisonment for six months because I have stolen. This was unknown to me..." No. Known or unknown, you must go to the jail.



*Therefore the greatest contribution to the human society is knowledge. To keep them in ignorance, in darkness, that is not human society, that is cats' and dogs'... Because they are in ignorance, nobody can give them knowledge, neither they can take. Therefore in the human society there is institution for giving knowledge. That is the greatest contribution. And that knowledge, the supreme knowledge, is there in the Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. And all the Vedas ascertain that one should know what is God. That is wanted. (aside:) Don't make that sound. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. People do not know it. This whole material world, they do not know what is the actual knowledge. They are busy in temporary things for sense gratification, but they are not aware what is actual the goal of knowledge. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: [SB 7.5.31] the goal of knowledge is to know Viṣṇu, God. That is goal of knowledge. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. This life, the human form of life, is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. That is life. And without trying to understand the Absolute Truth, if we simply are busy how to eat little comfortably, how to sleep little comfortably, or how to have sex little conveniently, these are animal activities. These are animal activities. Human activity means to know what is God. That is human activity. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Without knowing this, they are struggling for existence. They want to be happy by adjusting the external energy, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. And people, leaders, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Ask big big scientists, philosopher, "What is the goal of life?" They do not know. They simply theorize, that's all. The real goal of life is to understand God.

So that can be done, as it is said here, that you make association... What is the number of the verse?

Nitāi: Seventeen.



*Prabhupāda: Sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto*-bhayaḥ. Our life is to attain the transcendental platform of knowledge. That is our goal of life. Then how it can be done? Suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ. You associate with that cultural institution where there are suśīlāḥ, very well behaved. Now, find out any institution throughout the whole world who are suśīla. You will find here in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement: no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication. You won't find anywhere. This is called suśīla, well behaved. Suśīla means... śīla means behavior, or custom. Here you will find they are taking bath three times, they are changing cloth, everything neat and clean, personally their character, their behavior, suśīla. Suśīlāḥ sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ means saintly. What are the saintly characteristics? That is also mentioned:



titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ

*suhṛdaḥ sarva*-dehinām

ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ

*sādhavaḥ sādhu*-bhūṣaṇāḥ

[SB 3.25.21]



These are the characteristics of sādhu, not a sādhu having a dress like a sannyāsī and accompanied by three dozen women. No. Sādhavaḥ, their business is to preach. Kṛṣṇa says,



api cet sudurācāro

*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

[Bg. 9.30]



*He is sādhu who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Api cet sudurācāraḥ. Such person, even if you find some fault... Because everyone cannot become immediately perfect. Due to bad habits, sometimes they fall victim. But still, if he is Kṛṣṇa conscious strictly, he does not deviate, he does not forget Kṛṣṇa, then he is to be accepted as sādhu. Kṛṣṇa says. That, only for that qualification. Bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk. That is the qualification of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



So sādhu, they have to preach. They have to preach. Therefore the first qualification is titikṣavaḥ, tolerant. So many people will criticize, so many people attack, so many opposing elements, and he has to fight with them. Therefore titikṣavaḥ, toleration. Just like you see, Lord Jesus Christ is so tolerant that he was crucified; still, he did not curse anybody. This is sādhu: titikṣavaḥ, tolerant. The very great example of tolerance, Christ, Jesus Christ. So similarly, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. There are many saintly persons, sādhu, who were very tolerant. So first qualification of sādhu is titikṣavaḥ. Titikṣavaḥ and kāruṇikāḥ: at the same time, kind. These two examples we find in the character of Lord Jesus Christ. He was being crucified, and still he was praying to God, "My Lord, they do not know what they are doing." Did he not?

Brahmānanda: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. And he was persecuted, and still, he was kind. He was kind. Still, he was praying to God that "These rascals are doing. They cannot kill me, but they are thinking that I will be killed. So they are committing offense." So this is toleration, and kāruṇikāḥ. Similarly, there are many examples. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ, and suhṛdaḥ sarva*-dehinām: [SB 3.25.21] friend of all living entities. Lord Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." He never said that... Now they are interpreting in a different way: "The animal has no soul, and you can kill animals and keep slaughterhouse." So who is a Christian? I do not know who is a Christian. They profess to be Christian. It is very difficult to find out a true Christian who is strictly following the words of Lord Jesus Christ. So he is a good example of sādhu. We therefore adore and offer our obeisances to Lord Christ. Sādhu, example. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām [SB 3.25.21]. This is suhṛdaḥ, not that "My brother will be saved, my family will be saved, and all others should be killed." That is not sādhu's qualification. Sādhu's qualification is he is kind to everyone. It is not that if a human being is killed, the killer is also killed. Why? Even a human being is killer of an animal, he should be killed. That is called suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām: friend to everyone. Not that "Only the human being should be given protection, he is national, and others animals and trees should not be given protection." No. That is imperfect knowledge. National means one who has taken birth in that land. So do the animals do not take their birth in the land? They are also national, but it is your discriminating law that you are giving protection to the human being and not to the animals. This is sinful activities. Therefore we say that "No meat-eating." If we give up this meat-eating, then so many lifes of the poor animals will be saved.



*So that is sādhu, no meat*-eating. Here you will find. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement you will find, nobody is meat-eating. Nobody is prepared to kill even an ant, what to speak of big animal. They put argument that "You are vegetarian, and you are also killing vegetable life." Of course, we are killing. But we are not killing vegetables. First of all, vegetables are not killed. If I take a fruit from the tree, the tree is not killed. Or if I take the grains from the plant, before the grains are ripe the plant dies. So actually there is no question of killing. Although the law is, nature's law is that "One living entity is the food for another living entity." Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. But a human being should be discriminative. If I can live by eating fruits and grains and milk, why shall I kill animal? This is human consciousness. Milk, if you get milk, you can prepare hundreds of nice preparations, all full of vitamins and nourishing. In our New Vrindaban we are maintaining cows and having so many nice preparations, rābri and lagdu and this peḍā and baraphi and sandeśa and rasagullā and yogurt-varieties enough. The other farmers they come, they are surprised, that "Such nice preparation can be made from milk?" Yes, you do not know. You do not know how to utilize the animal. Ignorance. The milk is also produced out of the blood.

*So it is intelligence. You are drinking the blood in a different way, produced by nature with more vitamin values and more taste and more gentleman. Why should you kill one cow and try to drink the blood? The blood is there already, but in a different form, without any violence. And we have seen it. It is practical experience that if the cows are assured they would not be killed, they will give you double milk. That we have experience. And it is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam that siṣicuḥ... We have not got here the verse. The purport is that during Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, the cows were so happy and jubilant that from their milk bag always drop milk, so that the pasturing ground became muddy with milk.

*So this science is unknown to the rascal civilization, how to utilize things for the best purpose. So in the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Vaiśyas... First-class men, brāhmaṇa; *second*-class men, the kṣatriya; *third*-class men, the vaiśyas; *and fourth*-class men, all others, the worker class, śūdras. So the first-class men, the brāhmaṇa, they should give instruction, nice instruction, so that the whole human society will profit. By seeing the character of the brāhmaṇa, the behavior of the brāhmaṇa... Śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣā kṣāntir eva ca, jñānaṁ vijñānam. A brāhmaṇa is not, never recommended, a brāhmaṇa will make some trade or become a engineer. No. Śamo damas titikṣā, these are the qualification, characteristics, of brāhmaṇa. And śāstra says yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam, tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. When there is characteristics of a brāhmaṇa, then you should accept him as a brāhmaṇa. Not whimsically. Similarly, kṣatriya, he must be very strong and chivalrous and never be go, I mean, fly away from battle. They should come forward when there is some battle, riot. They should give protection. They are kṣatriyas. And vaiśya means... Now, the brāhmaṇas, they are not going to produce food or other things. They are simply for knowledge, giving the best knowledge to the human society. There is a need of brāhmaṇa. Everyone śūdra, simply working hard and because they are accusing, "Oh, you people are escaping..." What is escaping? We are giving the best knowledge to the human society.

*So it is specially mentioned, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam [Bg. 18.44]. The vaiśyas, food production means produce food grains, agricultural. By agriculture, you can. So much land is vacant all over the world. They are producing coffee. I have seen in Africa. Vast land is engaged in producing coffee. No food grain. So this is the defect of the civilization. They do not know how to live. Will man die without drinking coffee? No. That is not the fact. But man will die if they have no real food, anna, food grains. If you think that "I eat meat. I don't require food grains," but the cows, the animal eat food grains. So without food grain, how we can live? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. You produce food grains. Why you are producing so much unnecessary things-television and tools, and stool also, so many thing. Why? They are not necessary. Live in the village, produce your own food, your own cloth, and drink milk sufficiently*-all economic questions solved. Then you become suśīla, well behaved. And if you go on killing animals and drinking wine and gambling, when you will be suśīla? You are always bad character.

*Here it is said suśīla, "well behaved," "good character." Suśīlāḥ sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ, character like ideal. You have got ideal, Lord Jesus Christ. Suśīlāḥ sādhavaḥ nārāyaṇa... Why? Nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ: because they are devotee of Nārāyaṇa. If you become simply nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa, devotee of Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa, all good qualities will come to you automatically. All good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. Take practical example. These boys, these girls, how they have become so nice? They are known as "bright-faced." Why? Because nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ: they have taken seriously Kṛṣṇa as the object of worship. So actually if you want happiness within this world, peace, and prosperity, just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. All problems will be solved and you will be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



760517SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.17

-

Honolulu, May 17, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (devotees repeating) Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevaya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevaya. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Chapter One, verse number seventeen.



sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke

*panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto*-bhayaḥ

suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra

*nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ

[SB 6.1.17]



"The path followed by pure devotees, who are well behaved and fully endowed with the best qualifications, is certainly the most auspicious path in this material world. It is free from fear, and it is authorized by the śāstras."



*So this is the summarization of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that the path followed by pure devotees. Pure devotees means who has no material desire. That is pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Śūnya means zero, one who has made all material desires zero. That is the way. In the Buddha philosophy it is called nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means make zero, śūnyavādi. But we cannot remain in the śūnya. That is not possible. Śūnyavādī*-nirvāṇa means to give up material desires. It is not possible to give up desires. That is not possible. To give up desires means I am dead body, a stone. If I have got life, if I am not a stone, there must be desires. Where is the living entity who has no desires? That is not possible. If we kill somebody to make him desireless, that "If you are killed, then there will be no more desire," no, the desire will continue in the subtle body. Even one is finished, this material body... Sometimes they commit suicide out of frustration, that "This desire is not fulfilled. Let me commit suicide." No. That is ignorance. Desires continue in the subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego. And to fulfill the desire, Kṛṣṇa will give you another body. If we make a desire, it must be fulfilled and Kṛṣṇa will give you facilities. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. Desire is so strong. So how to make it zero? That is not possible. To make it zero means no more material desire. That is to make zero material desires. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

*That is more lucidly explained in the Nārada*-bhakti-sūtra. Desire means we should give up the desire of this bodily designation: "I am Indian; you are American," "I am Hindu; you are Christian." These are all designation of the body. I... Accidentally I am born in India; therefore I call myself Indian. You are accidentally... Not accidentally. Some way or other born in... You are American. Accidentally somebody takes birth in the Hindu family; he becomes Hindu. Accidentally he takes birth in the Christian family; *he becomes Christian. These are all designation. So when we give up this designation, that is desirelessness. Designation. Everyone is acting. They are fighting. They are making so many plans. Why? "We are Indian" or "We are American," "We are Russian, and the Russian must exceed the Americans," "Americans must exceed..." This is going on on the platform of designation. When we change the platform and we simply desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is desirelessness. Otherwise not that desirelessness means I become zero. That is not possible. Because I am a living being, I am living soul. How can I be desire... [break] ...want to be designationless, then come to the association of such persons who are suśīlāḥ sādhava yatra nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇāḥ, persons who are simply interested in serving Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa parāyaṇa means... Parāyaṇa means they're always ready to abide by the orders of Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa... "Those who have taken the path of Nārāyaṇa, devotional service, as their life and soul." They are called nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ.

*So what is the qualification of nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇa? It does not require any qualification to become nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa, but if you become voluntarily nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa... Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa means my life is now dedicated for Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, they're the same. So that is qualification, if you simply take it as vow that "From this day my life is dedicated to Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa." Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. As soon as we take this vow, that "From this day my life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants everyone to surrender. I surrender unto the...," from that day you become free from all designation. Simply this determination, that "From this day I belong to Nārāyaṇa, or Kṛṣṇa. Whatever He wants..." That is the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā So long Arjuna... That is a superficial picture. Arjuna is always for Kṛṣṇa, but just to teach us, he became for his family. He became... In the warfield, when there was to be fighting, he became to the family side and he said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, how can I fight with my family? They are my brothers, they are my nephews, they are my grandfather, they are my teacher, the other..." Because it was a family fight, five brothers and hundred brothers. So at the warfield he became perplexed, that "I am fighting with my family. The fight means to fight with enemies. How is that? What kind of war it is? Eh? I have to fight with family." He said, Kṛṣṇa, "So who has taught this kind of fighting, Kṛṣṇa, to kill his own brother, his nephews and...?" Therefore that means he leaned to the family side. This is designation. This is designation. Because he belonged to the Kuru's family he took side of the family. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, after understanding Kṛṣṇa, when he came to the conclusion that "I must be with Kṛṣṇa's side, not to the family side," then he became perfect. After hearing thoroughly Bhagavad-gītā, he... Kṛṣṇa said, "Now what you will do? To the family side or My side?" Yathecchasi. That freedom is there. Yathecchasi: "Whatever you like, you can do. I have given my instruction."

*That freedom is there always. The Kṛṣṇa or His representative, the spiritual master, he can give you good instruction, good advice, but to do it or not to do it, that is your option. That is your option. You decide yourself. That is the... Kṛṣṇa said, yathecchasi tathā kuru: [Bg. 18.63] "I am not interfering with your independence. I am dealing as your spiritual master, and you accepted Me as your spiritual master." Kṛṣṇa was accepted, Arjuna, śiṣyas te 'ham: "Kṛṣṇa, no more friendly talk. I accept You as my spiritual master." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. "What kind of disciple?" Now, prapannam, fully surrendered: "Now whatever You will say, I'll do." This is śiṣya. Śiṣya I have several times explained, śās*-dhātu. Who voluntarily accepts the ruling of a person, he is śiṣya. And otherwise, "You go on talking whatever nonsense you can. I'll do my own business," that is not śiṣya. Śiṣya means śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. That is śiṣya.

*So Kṛṣṇa taught him Bhagavad*-gītā. Then, still, He gave him the freedom, yathecchasi tathā kuru: [Bg. 18.63] "Now Arjuna, I have instructed you everything. Now you decide what to do." It is not force. Reply was that now, naṣṭo moho smṛtir labdhā: "My illusion is now over. I have got... I am now remembering what I am." That remembering means "I am not belonging to this family." Tvat prasādād madhusūdana. Smṛtir labdhā. Smṛtir. This is... In the material world we have lost our memory that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and my duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. This is called illusion. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. So what is the duty of this finger? To abide by the order of the body. I want: "Finger, you stand like this"; the finger is standing. "You come here," "Yes." That is part and parcel. That is part and parcel. So if we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our only duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. There is no other duty. But we have created so many duties, and that is designation.

*So we can be designationless when you live with the pure devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said that suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra. That path is very nice. Akuto bhayam, fearlessness. Where? Now, suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra: "Where well*-behaved saintly persons are there." Well behaved. It is the first word, suśīla. Śīla means character, very nice character. A devotee cannot be bad character. Because Kṛṣṇa is paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram [Bg. 10.12]-pavitra means pure-so impure cannot approach Him. That is not possible. If you want to enter fire, you must be fire. And if you are not fire, then you will burn. So first of all we have to revive, because Kṛṣṇa... The example is given that Kṛṣṇa is the big fire and we are sparks of fire. We are also fire, very small. The sparks of fire can play, can remain within fire, and it is beautiful: "Phat! Phat!" There is spark. You have seen while fire is going on. It is very beautiful. And as soon as this "Phat! Phat!" falls down, separate from the..., it is extinguished. No more fire. It is black charcoal, that's all. So if we want happiness, then we have to dance with Kṛṣṇa. But you cannot dance Kṛṣṇa if I am not pure. Kṛṣṇa is pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. Pavitra means the supreme pure. If you want to take pleasure in the company of Kṛṣṇa and dance rasa dance, then you have to become pure, purified. That is sarvopādhi vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], to free from all designation. Nārāyaṇa parāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa society or Kṛṣṇa society, the same thing.

*So this is very nice verse, substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that those who are conducting this movement, they must be suśīla, very well behaved. Nobody can find out any fault. That is suśīla, well behaved. The behavior should be so nice. That is the test how you have become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the test. Spotless. You study Caitanya Mahāprabhu's behavior, character, He's ideal. Throughout His whole life you'll not find a spot. You read Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Find out some fault, that "Here is Caitanya... Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is faulty." No. That is suśīla. And that is sādhu. Sādhava. Sādhava means sādhu, saintly person. What is saintly person?

titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ

*suhṛdaḥ sarva*-bhūtānām

ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ

*sādhavaḥ sādhu*-bhūṣaṇāḥ

[SB 3.25.21]



This is the definition of a sādhu. What is that? Titikṣava, very, very tolerant. Just see Christ, ideal character. How tolerant he is. He was being crucified; *still he is merciful. Similarly, anywhere, those who are actually sādhu, saintly persons, they are very tolerant. Kṣamā*-rūpa tapasvinām. That is the qualification of sādhu: titikṣava. At the same time kāruṇika, merciful. The others are torturing him, but still he is merciful.



*That is the qualification of sādhu. Titikṣava kāruṇikā. Why? Suhṛdaḥ sarva*-bhūtānām: "He is friend of everyone." There is no distinction that "He is American," "He is Indian," "He is Christian," "He is Hindu," "He is dog," "He is cat," "He is man..." No. He is kind to everyone. Why we are preaching "No meat-eating"? If you stop meat-eating, then the poor animals will be saved. So what business we have got with the animals? Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. A saintly person is friend to everyone. "Why unnecessarily an animal should be killed?" That is his feeling. You can eat animals because by nature this is the arrangement, that ahastāni sa-hastānām. Even we eat vegetable, that is also killing. But because I have to kill somebody to eat, that does not mean that I can kill my child also. That is also going on. There is discrimination. Similarly, our principle is that we are kind, merciful, to everyone. But we have to eat, so we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Because after all, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So if He eats something, the responsibility is His. But we are not advocate of vegetarianism or nonvegetarianism. No. That is not our business. We are Kṛṣṇa-ites. What Kṛṣṇa said, we have to do. Therefore sādhu, suhṛt. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. Sādhu is not enemy. Ajāta-śatrava. He does not create enemy, but the world is such that if you become devotee, even your father will be enemy. Prahlāda Mahārāja, five-years-old boy, what was his fault? He became a devotee and his father was prepared to kill him. This is world. So he does not create an enemy, but these demons, rascals, out of their jealousy they become our enemy. Otherwise our process is not to make enemy. We invite everyone, "Please come here, take prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and go home." Where is enmity? (laughter) But still, they'll become enemy. This is the world. But if he lives with the sādhava, suśīla, and follows the rules and regulation, then he also becomes sādhava. Saṅgāt sanjāyate kāmaḥ. Just like if you mix with a drunkard, thieves and rogues, then you also become a drunkard, thief, similarly, if we live with the sādhu, sādhava, then you become sādhu.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply giving chance to people without any discrimination, "Please come. Become Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa, devotee, and automatically you'll become suśīla and sādhu." As soon as-that is the test*-you become a devotee, nārāyaṇa-para, then automatically you become suṣīla and sādhava. And if you become well behaved and sādhava, committing no sinful activities, sādhava, and simply serving Nārāyaṇa, or Kṛṣṇa, then for our elevation or salvation, that is the panthāḥ kṣemo akuto-bhayaḥ. Akuto-bhayam. Now we are fearless. If on the devotional path, then you have no fear. Why? Now, Kṛṣṇa takes charge of you. Kṛṣṇa says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ pranaśyati: [Bg. 9.31] "Kaunteya, Arjuna, you can declare throughout the whole world that one who has become My devotee, he will never be vanquished." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ pranaśyati. You get immediately Kṛṣṇa's help. So if we depend completely on Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa-para, then automatically we become sādhu, automatically we become well behaved, and automatically we are protected. Therefore this path is the best way of advancing in our life and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



750701SB.DEN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.18

-

Denver, July 1, 1975



*(Prabhupāda leads prema*-dhvani) [break]

Nitāi: "Those persons who are performing many processes of atonement cannot become purified by such atonement due to their being nondevotees, just as a pot containing liquor cannot be purified even if it is washed by all the rivers combined together."



Prabhupāda:



prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni

*nārāyaṇa*-parāṅmukham

na niṣpunanti rājendra

*surā*-kumbham ivāpagāḥ

[SB 6.1.18]



*Ivāpagāḥ. So here is one significant word, surā*-kumbham. Everything is washed very nicely. If you go to the river, you can wash very nicely. But just see how much infectious is liquor that the any pot or any bottle which was filled up with liquor, they cannot be purified. This is Vedic civilization. How much condemned is liquor! Because a pot was filled up with liquor, you cannot use it for any other purpose. It is lost. Even if you wash it very nicely, no, it will not be accepted. Finished. Similarly, there are many processes of purification; *they cannot be as useful as bhagavad*-bhakti. Bhagavad-bhakti is so nice that Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender to Me," sarva-dharmān parityajya, "and immediately you become immune from all reaction of sinful activity, immediately."



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*Bhagavad*-bhakti is so strong. In many places it is stated in the śāstra.



dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*So there are different varieties of religious system, but if you execute your particular type of religious system very perfectly but the result, if you do not become attached to Kṛṣṇa, your love for Kṛṣṇa is not awakened, then simply by performing such ritualistic ceremony or rules and regulation of your religious system, if you do not become develop yourself to love God, then it is all useless waste of time. It has no meaning. That is the test, how to become, how to advance in loving service of the Lord. That is the... Then you are religious, you are philosopher, you are great man, you are everything. Otherwise, if you do not awaken your dormant love for Kṛṣṇa, or God, then all such labor is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ, notpādayed yadi [SB 1.2.8]. By performing religious ceremonies or following the religious principle, the test is how one has become advanced in the loving service of the Lord. This is required. And his example is very strong, that surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ. Surā-kumbha, the pot which contained liquor, it cannot be purified. Therefore it is so strictly prohibited about liquor.



So,

*sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*niveśitaṁ tad*-guṇa-rāgi yair iha

*na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān

*svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa*-niṣkṛtāḥ



*Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī has recommended that "Somehow or other, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. That is the recommendation of Rūpa Gosvāmī: "Somehow or other, you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa." Then your life will be successful. Somehow or other. Do anything, but you remember Kṛṣṇa. That is the instruction in the Bhagavad*-gītā also. Yudhyasva mām anusmara: [Bg. 8.7] "You fight; at the same time, you remember Me." "How it is possible? I am busy, and I have to remember Kṛṣṇa?" Sometimes this argument is put forward. But that argument is not strong. Rūpa Gosvāmī has given a very nice example that a woman, if she is attached to some man and she has a fixed up time to meet the man at some place or at some hour, so she may be engaged in household affairs very busily, but she is expecting, "When that hour will come?" This is very factual example. The mind is there, "When that meeting will take place?" Similarly, you can remember Kṛṣṇa. The... It is a crude example, but it is possible that you be busy in so many ways, but at the same time you can remember Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We have no objection. You do business, you do this, you do that. But if you can always remember Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. It doesn't matter. Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. And if you remember always Kṛṣṇa, that means you are becoming purified. You are purified immediately.



*So that is required. Prāyaścitta and other things, they may be temporarily... That is... We are discussing this point. The real point is that nārāyaṇa*-parāṅmukham. Without thinking of Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, no other method will be able to purify you. There are many places... Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā... [Bg. 4.10]. What is that verse? Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ... [Bg. 4.10]. The simple process to become purified. And that simple process is this chanting. Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, this name "Kṛṣṇa" is reminding me. I must hear and I must chant with the tongue. Then you keep yourself always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our method is very simple. It doesn't require much education or to become rich or become beautiful or become..., to take birth in high family. No. In any condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. If you want to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, there is no impediment in the world. You can, walking on the street, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will keep you purified. No other method. This is the purport of this verse.

prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni

*nārāyaṇa*-parāṅmukham

na niṣpunanti rājendra

*surā*-kumbham ivāpagāḥ



*So this purificatory process... Bhakti means purificatory process. We are impure. Because we are impure, therefore we are undergoing so many tribulations, so many miserable condition of life. Otherwise we are spirit soul, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). Our position is ānandamaya. Ānandamaya, the Vedānta-sūtra says, ānandamaya..., "By nature, spirit soul is ānandamaya, always full of jolly." You see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is full of jolly. Always you see pictures of Kṛṣṇa, either He is playing with the cowherds boy or either He is killing some demon, He is laughing, very sportively He is killing. And what to speak of with the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī? Because He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], always full of happiness and bliss. And we are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore our position is the same, maybe in small scale. The position is the same, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānandamaya. So why should we be morose? Why should we be unhappy? Because we are now at the present moment covered with the sinful reaction of our life. So if we purify ourself... Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. We have already discussed, or that will be discussed later. The human life is meant for that. Purify. Don't keep yourself unclean. Purify. Then you regain your original, spiritual life. That is the only business.



*But unfortunately, we are not interested in purifying, but we are interested to be more implicated by being impure. A diseased man, if he is to be cured, he must follow the rules and regulation as prescribed by the physician. And if he does not follow the rules and regulation-whatever he likes, he does-then the disease will increase. Disease will increase. We shall be careful to follow the rules and regulation. And another complaint I was hearing that we are not taking prasādam, especially the gṛhasthas. No. That is not good. You should take prasādam. Kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay, swa-prasād-anna dilo bhāi, sei annāmṛta pāo, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-guṇa gāo, preme ḍāko caitanya-nitāi. Kṛṣṇa baṛo doyā... Our tongue is the greatest enemy. Tā 'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. The tongue is the greatest enemy, and if you can control the tongue, then you can control all the senses. Otherwise tongue will dictate, "Give me this kind of food, give me this kind of food." And if you don't take prasādam in the temple, then our tongue will dictate, "Now you can prepare some nice food. Let us take it." That will not help us in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whatever Kṛṣṇa..., kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay. Kṛṣṇa-prasāda means to control the tongue. Our main enemy is the tongue. In another place it is said, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ: [Brs. 1.2.234] "God realization becomes by keeping the tongue engaged in the service of the Lord." Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. The tongue has to be first of all engaged, not the hands and legs. "I have to serve Kṛṣṇa. So yes, I am ready. I am expanding my hands. I am going there." But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Not your hands and legs but your tongue. This is the one. First of all engage your tongue." This is astonish: "How can I serve with tongue? If I have to serve, I have got my hands and legs, my eyes and I..." No. Śāstra says tongue. This is very peculiar. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. If you engage your tongue... So how to engage my tongue? What is the business of my tongue? Two business only: to taste, or eat, and chant. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa with tongue and take kṛṣṇa-prasādam*-you will conquer Kṛṣṇa. This is the program. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. So if you do not control your tongue, if you feel inconvenient in taking prasādam, that means you are not making progress. This is the... This is the formula. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ.

*So in our other branches, all the devotees, they take together prasādam. That is nice. Why one should be not liking to take prasādam in the temple? What is the fault? No, this is not good. We should... Everyone should take prasādam. You see still if you go to Jagannātha Purī. Even outsiders who go there, they do not cook. Strictly, they do not cook. They purchase prasādam. And if you go there, one thousand men-because there are pilgrims, they are coming, there is no*-you will get immediately ready prasādam, purchased from the the market, the Jagannātha Purī, still. And there is no such thing as infection. I am taking your prasādam remnants. Whatever you left, I am... He is taking. Even if you are outcaste, if you are not brāhmaṇa, still there is. Because prasāda is transcendental. It is not material thing. So one must have faith that it is not material. It cannot be infected by any material things. In this way prasāda should be taken. It is called prasāda-sevā, not "prasāda enjoyment." Sevā means giving service. Prasāda is as good as Kṛṣṇa; therefore prasāda should be respected as good as Kṛṣṇa. As soon as one gets prasādam, immediately he touches on the head because it is Kṛṣṇa, absolute. In this way we have to be trained up as it is prescribed in the śāstras.

*So those who are attached to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and those who are attached to the service, they should take prasādam, first*-class prasādam. Everyone likes the taste of the prasādam. I used to go in my household life to take prasādam in the temples and pay them. I used to do that. And I used to go... Especially in Śrī Rāmapur, there are two temples, one of Jagannātha and one of Rādhā-Vallabhajī. So it was very nice. On Sunday I used to go to take prasādam. So you should be habituated to prasādam as far as possible unless you are very sick, you cannot take. That is different. Otherwise you should take it. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. Then we will remember Kṛṣṇa, and that will keep us fit and immune from all infection of material miserable condition.

*So prāyaścittāni, because one, if he, one is not nārāyaṇa*-parāṅmukha... Nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukha and nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa-just the opposite. One is Nārāyaṇa..., attached to Nārāyaṇa, and one is detached to Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa detached cannot be purified simply by performing or executing the ritualistic ceremony. That is the verdict of this verse.

Thank you very much. (end)



760518SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.18

-

Honolulu, May 18, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Chapter Three, verse number eighteen. (devotees repeat)



prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni

*nārāyaṇa*-parāṅmukham

na niṣpunanti rājendra

*surā*-kumbham ivāpagāḥ

[SB 6.1.18]



*So bhakti*-yoga, devotional service, is so powerful that simply by taking to the bhakti-yoga according to the rules and regulation one is supposed to be purified. Yesterday we have discussed, sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto-bhayaḥ. First of all we are so ignorant that we do not know what is the aim of life. The modern education, modern civilization, they are so much misled that they do not know what is the aim of... Ask anybody, very learned scholar, scientist, philosopher, or medical man, engineer, lawyer, that "What is the aim of life?" Nobody knows. They think aim of life-eat, drink, be merry, and enjoy, that's all. This is aim of life. So that is not the aim of life. That eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, that is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs. So do you mean to say that this human form of life is also meant for that purpose? No. Human life is meant for understanding "What I am? What is God? What is relationship with God? Why I am here in this material world? Why I am suffering?" These are the questions for human life. Eating, sleeping, mating, that is wanted because we have got this body. So suppose there is car and a driver. So the petrol and grease, these things are required for the car. But you cannot eat petrol and grease and live. That is not possible. You have to eat something else. So we are thinking that the bodily necessities, petrol and grease, is my food(?). That is the mistake.



So therefore they do not know what is the aim of life, and the nature's law is, unless you come to the point of understanding what is the aim of life, the nature will go on punishing you in so many ways. Little mistake, you'll be punished. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. We have come to this material world, disobeying the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So just like police: as soon as you become outlaw, the police will take you and the police will go on punishing you unless you become lawful. This is the... So without understanding "Why I am put into the jail?" if I simply think that "It is all right. Let me remain here and suffer the punishment," jail life is not for happiness. That is, everyone knows. Jail life is for punishment. Similarly, in this material world everything is punishment, but by the illusory energy you are thinking, "This is all right." Every step there is punishment. Just study your life or my life. What is that? That beginning from the womb of my mother, when the body is formed, the soul, spirit soul, is injected in the womb of the woman, and then the formation of the body takes place. So the body grows. And now imagine when we are in the womb of the mother, how much difficult position packed up in a bag, airtight bag. If we, at the present moment, if I put into some airtight condition, within three minutes I shall die. Within three minutes. But similarly, just like packed the child remains within the womb of the mother. It is very, very painful. But by the grace of God he lives. He lives. Otherwise it is suffocating. Just imagine if you are put in a airtight box, tied up, hands and legs. How long you can live? So we remain in that condition, unconscious stage. Then, when the body is formed, we get our consciousness. Therefore at the age when the child is seven years, er, seven months old, it moves because he feels the pains.

*So in this way we have to remain within the womb of the mother. And when the body is formed, time is right, then by nature's way the child comes out. But he forgets that "I was in such condition. Now I am relieved." But he forgets. The mother or the father or the relative takes him. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung these different conditions. So we forget. That is spell of māyā. Then, even in this childhood, there are so many pains. Just like our... Here are children. They are crying. There is some pain. But we cannot understand what is the pain. Suppose some bug is biting. He's crying and mother is thinking that "He is hungry, so he's not stopping. So just..." Our point is: just try to study this life, how much painful it is. This is the human body and what to speak of the dog's body, cat's body? You study very minutely. You'll find, from the beginning of my life in the womb of my mother up to the death point, simply miseries. Simply miseries. Simply. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Kṛṣṇa said that this material life is duḥkhālayam, simply full of miseries. But under the spell of māyā we are thinking that we are very happy. That's not the fact. Therefore human life is a chance to get out of this miserable condition. That should be the aim of life, how to get out of this miserable condition of life. That requires knowledge how we are suffering, how it can be mitigated. The sufferings will be ended... The same thing: unless you become law*-abiding to the laws given by God, you'll suffer. That is nature's way. The same principle: unless you become lawful, the police will give you punishment. Similarly, material nature, that is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'pi bhuṅkte tad-guṇān. We are suffering because in the material there are threefold miseries generally: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. That is permanent. Besides that, extra miserable condition due to the age, due to the climate, due to the condition of life. So we have to study these things. Why... The human life begins when he begins to say "Why?" Kenopaniṣad. "Why I am suffering?"

*So there are different methods how to get out of the suffering condition, karmī, jñānī, yogi. But ultimate, very easy process is, if you become a devotee, if you become engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is very easy. Kṣemaḥ akuto*-bhayaḥ. Then your prosperity, your auspicity, is guaranteed. Kṣemaḥ akuto-bhayaḥ. Akuto-bhayaḥ means "without any fear." You can keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness as it is prescribed. Then your life is secure, akuto-bhayaḥ. Therefore no more fear. Because why? Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: [Bg. 18.66] "If you become surrendered unto Me and if you keep yourself under My instruction, then I'll give you protection." Therefore it is said, akuto-bhayam. Then your character will be formed, you'll become... You'll manifest your all good qualities simply by becoming nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa. And so far atonement... We began this atonement. So atonement is concerned, here it is said, prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham. You can have some atonement, but if you are bereft of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so this purification will not be complete. How? Rājendra surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ. According to Vedic civilization, a pot in which wine was kept, it is impure forever. It is impure forever. You cannot use for any other purpose. It is so abominable. If you think that "This bottle contained wine. Now wine is finished. Wash it, then it becomes pure," then according to Vedic civilization wine is so impure that even the pot in which wine was kept, it will never become pure. Surā... These examples outsider cannot understand, but it is said in the śāstra.

*So we have to understand that what is the aim of life. Aim of life is go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless we understand this, our life is in darkness. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. We are trying to be happy in this place of miserable condition, manufacturing so many ways of life. In the modern age they are thinking that "If we have got a very nice car and nice residential quarter and nice wife..." Oh, people also do not care now for wife and children. They want car, of course. (laughter) That is essential, although at any moment he can meet accident and finish. So this is not the aim of life. The aim of life is described that how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That should be. So if that is our aim of life, then we must engage ourself in devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then our life is successful. Otherwise we shall continue and drag the miserable condition of life, means we shall change in different ways, but it will never be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



700115SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.19

-

Los Angeles, January 15, 1970



Prabhupāda:



*sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*niveśitaṁ tad*-guṇa-rāgī yair iha

*na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhatān

*svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa*-niṣkṛtāḥ

[SB 6.1.19]



*We have been discussing sinful activities and their reaction for the last three weeks. So here, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that there are many different processes for counteracting our sinful activities, but he summarizes that sakṛn kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor niveśitaṁ tad-guṇa-rāgī yair iha. Anyone who has fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-padāravinda... Padāravinda means the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Aravinda means lotus flower, and pada means feet. Someway or other, if anybody fixes his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then, he says, na te yamaṁ pāśa-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān svapne 'pi paśyanti. It is, according to Vedic scripture, the sinful persons are taken to the superintendent of death, and there, according to his different volumes or proportion of sinful activities, a living entity is punished. The spirit soul is taken in that planet where the Yamarāja is there, and in the subtle form... Subtle form means the spirit covered in the subtle form of mind, intelligence and false ego, he is put into various trouble. Sometimes, just like we are also, even in this life, we are put into such troublesome position in dream. That is our experience. Suppose we are put into some narrow space and I am just going to be suffocated, or I am in the face of some dangerous animal, or deep into the ocean. Sometimes we dream like that. A similar punishment is given after death, and when the living being or the living entity becomes accustomed to such habit, then he is put into the womb of a certain type of animal or man where that suffering will continue. He is made into practice.



Māyā has got two things: āvaraṇātmika and prakṣepātmika. Āvaraṇātmika means just like a dog or a hog, he is in a, encaged in a body, eating stool, living in a very filthy place, but still, the hog is feeling himself that he is happy, he's happy. This is called āvaraṇātmika-śakti. Any abominable condition we may live, but māyā will cover our intelligence and we will think that we are living very nice. This is called āvaraṇātmika-śakti. Otherwise he cannot live. If an animal or a dog or hog thinks that he's in most abominable condition of life, then he cannot live. But he enjoys. A dog is chained up by the master, but he thinks that he's very happy. He does not think that "I am completely dependent and I am chained up. I have no independence, I cannot freely move." Even his chain is taken away, he wants to be chained. This is māyā. In any condition of life, everyone thinks that he's happy. But actually he does not know what is happiness. This is called māyā.

But here it is said that a person, for a short period, if he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, sakṛt, manaḥ, if his mind is somehow or other placed on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then, even in dream he'll never see what is the punishment in the planet of Yamarāja. That means a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is guaranteed not to be touched by the Yamarāja or his attendants or his police force or constables. They... A living entity is taken away. After his death, if he's sinful man, then his soul is taken away by force. He doesn't want to... Through a desert. These things are described. You may believe or not believe, but we believe, because we believe in Vedic literature. So these descriptions are there, and practically we experience also in our this life, sometimes in dream we are put into great troublesome position and we suffer. Although when we wake up we do not see anything like that, but still, the consequence of the dream we suffer. So here, Śukadeva Gosvāmī gives guarantee that a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is never to be troubled by the Yamarāja or his agents.

atra codāharanti imam

itihāsaṁ puratānam

*dūtānāṁ viṣṇu*-yamayoḥ

saṁvādaṁ taṁ nibodha me



*Now, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is giving one historical examples. Example is better than precept. Generally, common men, if they see one example, they understand better. So how, one's mind being fixed up in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, even for a moment, he can get relief from the greatest danger, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is narrating one story. This fact is corroborated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Those who have read, you know. Lord Kṛṣṇa said, svalpam apy hi dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. This Kṛṣṇa conscious, you call it a culture or religion, whatever you call, if one executes this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness even very little, then there is chance of his being saved from the greatest danger. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. Asya, this devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is so nice that even very little done, it can save one from the greatest danger. Now, that example is being narrated by a practical historical reference. Here it is said that itihāsam, codāharanti. It is exemplified from the historical reference. So all the narrations or stories that are mentioned in the Purāṇas and Vedic literature, they are historical references. They are not manufactured. Actual fact. Just like history, you know the historical facts are facts; they are not manufactured.



*So here this very word is used, itihāsam. Itihāsam means history. Itihāsaṁ purātanam. But it is very old. All these Purāṇas... This Purāṇa means, Purāṇa means "very old." Very old history. Purāṇa, this word, very word, means "old." So there are eighteen Purāṇas in Vedic literature. Because there are three kinds of living entities... Some of them are in goodness, some of them are in passion, and some of them are in ignorance. For all people, there are different kinds of Purāṇas. Those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, they cannot generally understand the historical references made in the sattvic Purāṇa. Just like this Bhāgavata, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, is also one of the Purāṇas, essence of history. Whole history. Similarly, Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa, Viṣṇu Purāṇa, these are Purāṇas in the modes of goodness. There are different types of people. The example is given just like there are different types of birds. A pigeon class... "Birds of the same feather flocks together." You see? That is natural. The pigeons will flock together and the crows will flock together. The swans will flock together. The swans will never go to the crow or the crow will never go to the swan. In human society also the same natural tendency is there. Of course, now we are becoming more liberal. Otherwise, formerly, the white people will not mix with black people. So this is not new. It is by nature. Everyone has got a particular type of society, environment.

*So literatures also, there are different kinds of literature. For the crowlike men there are different kinds of literature. And for the swanlike men there are different kinds of literature. So swanlike men..., swan means haṁsa. From nature's study you can see. The swans, they have got a special qualification. What is that? If you give a swan milk mixed with water, the swan will take out only the milk portion, and the water portion will remain. That means those who are swanlike men, they take the essence, not the adulteration. Similarly, there are elevated persons who are also called paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa. The same example of the haṁsa, swan. Paramahaṁsa means they are interested with the essence of this world, not with the adulteration. What is the adulteration? The adulteration is matter and the essence is spirit. Just like this body. What is this body? This body is that I am a spirit soul, living entity. I am encaged in this material body. Everything. Even in the atom there is some active principle. A drug, there is some active principle. So similarly, in this body, my body, your body, or any body, what is the active principle? The active principle is that living soul. As soon as the active principle is gone, then it is useless. "Dust thou art, dust thou be*-est." Then this body is made of this earth, and it again becomes earth. Either as stool or as earth or as ashes. These are the our experience. Just like Hindus, they burn this body. So this body become ashes. And there are communities, they throw out the body for being eaten up by birds and beasts. So it becomes stool. Because after eating they will pass stool. So the aftereffects of this beautiful body will be stool or ashes. We are now soaping so nicely, dressing so nicely this body, but the (laughs) aftereffects will be stool or ashes. Or earth. In your country you bury the body. So after few days it will be moth-eaten, and it will be turned into earth.

*So we have to utilize. The paramahaṁsa means they take the essence. What is the essence of this body? The essence of this body is the spirit soul. So one should try to understand what is science of that spirit soul. They are not interested with the adulteration. Just like the example is given: the swan. The swan takes out the active principle. The swans, they live in a very nice place where there is very clear water, nice garden, nice fruits, flowers, birds chirping. You will find, these white swans are there. When I was in London I saw there was a, there is a nice Regent Park. There are many swans. The park is mostly flower, rose flower, nice park. So they are living there. And the crows, where they live? They'll go where you throw away all nasty things. They will go and enjoy there. You see, the crows. Why? Why the crows does not do like the swans, and the white swans do not do like these crows? These are the different qualities. The whole world is moving in different qualities. Therefore the quality of goodness, that has to be acquired in human form of life. This temple is meant for the persons who are in the quality of goodness, those who are after the essence of the world*-paramahaṁsa. And this, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also meant for the paramahaṁsas. Not for the crowslike men but swanslike men, those who are white swans, trying to live in a very nice place, clear water, nice tree, nice fruits.

*So in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam in the beginning you'll find in the introduction, paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra. Atra means "in this book, in this transcendental literature," dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra... [SB 1.1.2]. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Dharmaḥ means religiosity. Religiosity or the cheating type of religiosity is not here. It is for paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ, for persons who are not envious. The crowlike birds or crowlike men or karmīs, they're envious. You'll find. And even, without any offense... Just like dog: You pass on. Without any offense, he'll bark, "Ow, ow, ow, ow." (laughter) You have no offense. You have no offense, but it will try to pick up some quarrel with you. Sometime it will come to bite you unless you have got sufficient stick to show. (laughter) So, similar... There are dogs and cats and hogs. There are similar men also. They will simply pick up quarrel unnecessarily. Sometimes political leaders... Just like in Europe, Hitler unnecessarily picked up some war, and there was devastation all over the world. You see. There was no gain. The Germany become defeated and bifurcated. So this leader could not do anything good to the nation, but unnecessarily picked up some quarrel. So that is the cause of world trouble, the crowlike men, the doglike men, the hoglike men. So we have to create paramahaṁsas, good men. Then you can expect peace and prosperity. If you create cats and dogs, then how can you expect that there will be peace, there will be no war, there will be no disturbance? No. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2].

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to create a population of paramahaṁsa. That is our propaganda. We are not trying to create a class of men like crows or cats and dogs, but like the haṁsas. Of course, it is very difficult. When you try to create some M.A., pass boys and girls, their number will be very little. Because anything valuable, the customer is very little. If you want to sell jewel, in the jewelry shop hardly you will find one customer in a day, or two customer in a day. But in a beef shop or a meat shop you will find hundreds of... You see? So as soon as a thing is valuable, the number of customer will be less. So don't consider the quality of the good by estimation of the number of customers. The customer may be very little, but you should try to understand what is the quality of the thing. So in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement you will please try to understand what kind of things we are going to deliver. Don't try to understand that "These people have no very many customers." The customers will be less because we have so many restriction. So people do not like it. Everyone thinks "why I shall be restricted? I shall be free." But actually, he is not free. Just like the dog thinks that he is very free, but he is chained up. Similarly, every one of us are chained up by the laws of material nature. We cannot go even a inch beyond the laws of material nature. You cannot eat more what you can digest. The law of nature immediately will try to inflict punishment upon you. This is practical experience. You have to eat as much as you require. If you eat more, then you get indigestion, and if you eat less, then you become weak. You have to eat exactly what you require. That is the law of nature. Similarly, these Kṛṣṇa consciousness boys and girls, they're being taught not to eat more, not to eat less; not to enjoy senses more, not to enjoy less. Similarly, the paramahaṁsa life is a regulated life.

So here, how the person of whose history is mentioned here became irregulated and how he was to be punished, this story is narrated. Kindly hear. He says,

kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid

*dāsī*-patiḥ ajāmilaḥ

*nāmnā naṣṭa*-sadācāraḥ

*dāsyāḥ saṁsarga*-dūṣitaḥ



*Just try to understand. Here it is said that in a Kānyakubja city... There is a city, now it is called, by the British period, it is now known as Kanauj, a city in the northern India near Kanpur city... So that is very old city, because it is mentioned in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata, and Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago. So it means that city is famous since five thousand years ago, and it was inhabited by learned brāhmaṇas. So here it is said, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid. Dvijaḥ, dvijaḥ means brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas. Especially it is meant the brāhmaṇas and the Vaiṣṇavas. Just like in this morning we had ceremony, initiation. The second ceremony will be for offering sacred thread. So one who has got this sacred thread, he is called dvijaḥ, twice-born. Twice-born. Once born by the father and mother, and the next birth is given by the spiritual master and Vedic literature. Vedic literature is the mother and the spiritual master is the father. As in every birth the necessity of father and mother is there, similarly, in this birth also, spiritual rebirth, there is necessity of mother and father. The mother is this Vedic knowledge, and the father is the spiritual master.



*So there was a dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was born in the family of a brāhmaṇa. And he was sanctified also. From the life history of this man we understand that in his early age, when he was up to his youthful life, sixteen or seventeen or up to twenty years, he was very well behaved boy. He was under the care of his father and mother, and how by bad association he became a debauch, that is stated here. It is stated that, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid āsīt dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ. Ajāmilaḥ, his name was Ajāmila, and he was a brāhmaṇa. But he contacted some woman which is called dāsī, or prostitute, and he remained with her. Dāsī-patiḥ. In India also, still, the practice is that if anyone, any person, wants contact of more woman than his wife, then he cannot disturb in the society. He has to search out this dāsī, or some prostitute. So from time, very long, long ago, even in Kṛṣṇa's time we find that there was a prostitute class. When Kṛṣṇa entered Dvārakā, these, some of the... They were still devotee. Although their profession was prostitute, prostitution, still, they were devotee. So we find from this narration of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that many devotee prostitutes also went to receive Lord Kṛṣṇa. So it does not matter even if one is prostitute, she cannot be devotee. She can be devotee also. So this man, Ajāmila, contacted a prostitute. Dāsī-patiḥ ajāmilaḥ nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. And because, although he was born in a nice family, he contacted the association of a prostitute, his sadācāraḥ, his well-behaved life, became lost.

*Well*-behaved life... Sadācāraḥ and durācāraḥ. Sadācāraḥ means those who are following the regulative principles, they are called sadācāraḥ. And those who are not following the regulative principles, they are called durācāraḥ. So here it is said that dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Being contaminated by the association of the prostitute, he lost his life of well behavior. And what is that? How did he lose his well behavior? Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. He accepted the profession of cheating, gambling. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś. Stealing, cauryaiḥ, and garhitāṁ vṛttim. Those are condemned profession. Now these condemned professions have become ordinary profession in the civilized society, but according to the Vedic civilization, these things are condemned things. Cheating or gambling, cheating and speaking lie, bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś. And stealing. These are condemned profession. But he adopted all these things because he was associated with a woman for illicit sex.

So illicit sex is so bad thing. This is the example. If we indulge in illicit sex life, then we won't care for all these abominable actions. That was the example by Ajāmila. We shall come to understand later on that he was married, but he left his legal wife, and he contacted a prostitute, and the association of this prostitute, he became a thief, a cheater, a gambler, a liar and so many nice things simply for maintaining the family. So we shall not take much of your time. This is a long story. We shall narrate again next week. Please come.

Thank you very much. (end)



701115SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.19

and Room Conversation

-

Bombay, November 15, 1970



Prabhupāda: So I will have to inform that man he'll come at about ten.



Haṁsadūta: He'll come in time tonight? It's on the way to Gorakhpur?



Prabhupāda: Yes, we can go via that way also. Then it would be time.



Haṁsadūta: When do they want us to come there?



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Haṁsadūta: When do they want us? If we leave... The day we leave here we can go there? Sixteenth or seventeenth?



Prabhupāda: No, we are leaving on the seventeenth, so we can get that place on the eighteenth and live there for three, four days if they'll provide a good bungalow, and they have promised. So this is the position. Now you can consider.



Haṁsadūta: They can arrange a program for you?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They'll do everything.



Yamunā: (indistinct) make arrangements.



Prabhupāda: Then we can cancel that. So the possibility is on the eighteenth. [break]



Devotee: In order that you should leave by the eighteenth, actually we have to go by plane, and so the plane reservation has already been made, and...



Prabhupāda: So you, amongst yourself, consider all these. I cannot tax my brain. So whatever is good, you do it. At Gurudāsa's meeting we shall be required all to represent there? Some of them may go.



Yamunā: Not all.



Prabhupāda: Not all. Then some of them may go directly to Delhi, and some of them may go via Krishnanagar. What do you think, Haṁsadūta?



Haṁsadūta: I think so, yes.



Prabhupāda: So you consider. Make a meeting amongst yourselves. Decide what to do. And here for opening a center it is already proposed that they will give us land and they will give us a temple also. Other buildings we have to manage.



Haṁsadūta: They will give us a temple also?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Haṁsadūta: Where is that temple?



Prabhupāda: Temple we have to construct. But for that construction, temple, they will pay. But for residential and other buildings and maintenance we have to arrange. That's not a bad proposal. It is very nice proposal. They are giving us land, giving us a temple. And we can raise funds and construct as we increase men. In the meantime we can manage the temple. It is good proposal. Open it. Somebody is knocking. Keep it open. No, don't keep it ope... Yes, open, open. Keep it open like that. Yes. Another thing: that Gopāla is not offered sacred thread? You were not doubly initiated? So he can be initiated doubly. And Bruce, what it is? He is not going to be initiated?



Yamunā: I'll have to ask him (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Huh? No, you can ask later on. He is now practiced to our habits. So he can be initiated, yes. There is sufficient place. You can sit down here. [break] (Hindi) You can sit down behind the women. Aiye, aiye, (Hindi) Come. Come on forward. Come forward. (Hindi) Now the difficulty is if I speak in English, most probably the ladies will not be able to understand. And if I speak in Hindi, then these...



Guest (2): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Huh? Speak in English? You can do one thing. You can translate. Huh? That will be nice. So you come here. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt.



Guest (2): The Sanskrit... I don't read Sanskrit.



Prabhupāda: No, I will speak in English.



Guest (3): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Svalpam apy asya dharmasya?



Guest (3): Yes.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says,



*sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*niveśitaṁ tad*-guṇa-rāgī yair iha

*na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān

*svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa*-niṣkṛtāḥ

[SB 6.1.19]



*Sakṛt. Sakṛt means very a little, svalpam, very little. Sakṛt manaḥ. If one accepts this process of devotional service as very good, not that he has got full knowledge but simply accepts it, simply accepts it... That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. (Indian man translates) (Prabhupāda speaks in Hindi) We have no other business, simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore anyone who joins with us even for a moment, even for a few minutes, still, it is so powerful that it can help you to save you from the greatest danger.



*For this reason the temple is situated. In the temple generally ordinary man, woman, they come to see the Deities, hear the chanting, and sometimes play some instrument. All these help him progressing toward devotional service. Niveśitaṁ tad*-guṇa-rāgī yair iha. Śrīdhara Svami says, bhaktiḥ svalpāpi punāti: "Bhakti, devotional service, is so nice that even it is done very little, still it purifies." Just like fire. Even a small fire can burn wherever it is placed. Tasya guṇeṣu rāga-mātram asti na tu janānām. Śrīdhāra Svāmī says, "Simply a little attraction for Kṛṣṇa, not full knowledge even, simply a little attraction, can purify one from all sinful reaction."

atra codāharantīmam

itihāsaṁ purātanam

*dūtānāṁ viṣṇu*-yamayoḥ

saṁvādas taṁ nibodha me



*Now he again says that "Those who are attracted to devotional service of Kṛṣṇa even to a very little extent, for them," na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa-niṣkṛtāḥ, "they do not even dream the Yamarāja or his constables." Because at the time of death those who are very sinful, they are taken away to Yamarāja's place... That's a fact. Not only that, he even in dream does not see them because that little service to Kṛṣṇa has made him freed from all sinful contamination. (Hindi) The very word is used, cīrṇa-niṣkṛtāḥ.



atra codāharanti imam

itihāsaṁ purātanam

*dūtānāṁ viṣṇu*-yamayoḥ

saṁvādas taṁ nibodha me



Now Śukadeva Gosvāmī is giving an example from the history. Now it is explicitly stated here, itihāsaṁ purāṇam. All the *Purāṇas* that we have got, they are not legends; they are all history. They are all histories. Just like there is no chronological history one after another, but any incident which has taken actually place, they are reciting. They are not fiction or imaginary stories, all the *Purāṇas*. Itihāsa, yes. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is giving an instance from the history which is very instructive. Atra codāharantīmam itihāsaṁ purātanam. Purāṇa means old history, actually Purāṇa. Purāṇa means old. So purātaṇam itihāsam. Now he gives that,



kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid

*dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ

*nāmnā naṣṭa*-sadācāro

*dāsyāḥ saṁsarga*-dūṣitaḥ



*He says, "In the city of Kānyakubja..." Kānyakubja is still existing. That is also historical place. That place is now known as Kanauj. Yes. (some discussion in Hindi) "In the city of Kānyakubja, formerly there was a brāhmaṇa." Kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścit. "There was a brāhmaṇa." Āsīd dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ. Dāsī-pati means one who keeps woman; it is not married. He kept one woman, dāsī; *therefore he was the husband of a dāsī. He was living with a woman who was not married wife. So a brāhmaṇa of the name Ajāmila who was husband of a kept woman, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. But he lost all good qualification of a brāhmaṇa. That is the result of illegitimate connection with woman.



*So this point is very important, that if one is addicted to illicit sex life, if one is addicted to meat*-eating and if one is addicted in intoxicants, then he is immediately fallen from the standard of human society. (Hindi) The present state of Hindu society is so fallen because a brāhmaṇa, in spite of his kad-ācāra, he claims to become a brāhmaṇa. Do you follow? The śāstra says that as soon as you give up your good habits, the behavior of a brāhmaṇa... The behavior brāhmaṇa or... Just like it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, satya-śama-dama-titikṣa-ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānaṁ āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So we have to select a brāhmaṇa by the symptoms of his life, not that because he is born of a brāhmaṇa family he remains a brāhmaṇa. No. He must continue the brahminical qualification; *otherwise he is not a... Naṣṭa*-sadācāra. He is lost. Sadācāra must be continued. This is the conclusion of the Bhāgavata. Unfortunately, not only brāhmaṇas-kṣatriyas or śūdras, they are practically... They have lost all sadācāra. Still, they are claiming that "I am born in higher family." Naṣṭa-sadācāra dāsyāḥ sam... And why he was lost of his good behavior? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-duṣitaḥ: because he was contaminated by that illicit sex life. And at the present moment a gentleman keeps woman and goes there, and still, he passes on as brāhmaṇa. He does not know that he has fallen down. (Hindi) For this reason the present Hindu society is so degraded.

*bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaiṭavaiś cauryair

garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ

bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir

yātayām āsa dehinaḥ



*Now his profession was... When a man falls down, then he lives by this profession. What are these? Bandy*-akṣaiḥ: gambling, cheating, and stealing. All these abominable activities they adopt. And he does not think that "I am doing something bad because I have no other means to maintain my family." He gives the reason that "What can I do? I have to maintain my family, so somehow or other I must get money." So there is a practical example in Patna high-court. I do not wish to name, but there was a big high-court judge. He was taking bribe, and he was detected one day. When he was just to deliver one judgment, the chief judge called him and he asked him that "You immediately resign on health condition and go away." But when his friends asked him that "Why you were doing so?" he replied that "I have got expenditure, ten thousand rupees per month, and I get only four thousand. What can I do?" So the... (the door opens) (aside:) Come on. Just see practically. Even a high-court judge, because he has to spend more than his income, he adopted these vile means of living. The trend of modern civilization is like that. They unnecessarily increase their expenditure and adopt these all vile means. (Hindi) So your party is ready? (Hindi) So you can go with him. Yes. (Hindi) (end)





750702SB.DEN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.19

-

Denver, July 2, 1975



Nitāi: "Those who have given up all varieties of religiosity and who have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa alone by fixing their minds on His lotus feet may not have fully realized Him. But due to their simply surrendering unto Him they have become attached to His name, fame, quality, and pastimes. By such surrender they have become completely purified of all sinful reactions, although they may not have accepted the principles of atonement. Even in dreams such a surrendered soul does not see Yamarāja or his order carriers equipped with ropes for binding sinful men."



Prabhupāda:



*sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*niveśitaṁ tad*-guṇa-rāgi yair iha

*na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān

*svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa*-niṣkṛtāḥ

[SB 6.1.19]



*So this is the profit of Kṛṣṇa conscious person. Kṛṣṇa is so attractive that if anyone only once has fully applied his mind in thinking of Kṛṣṇa and surrendering, then he becomes immediately saved from all miserable condition of this material life. So that is our perfection of life. Somehow or other, we surrender to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So here it is stressed, sakṛt. Sakṛt means "only once." So if so much profit is there simply once thinking of Kṛṣṇa, then we can imagine, those who are always engaged in thinking of Kṛṣṇa by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, what is their position. They are very safe. So much so that it is said, na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān svapne 'pi paśyanti. Svapna means dreaming. Dreaming is false. To see the Yamadūtas, or the carriers of order of Yamarāja, superintendent of death, to see face to face... At the time of death, when one very sinful man is dying, he sees the Yamarāja or the order carriers of Yamarāja. They are very fierce looking. Sometimes the man on the deathbed becomes very much fearful, cries, "Save me, save me." This also happened to Ajāmila. And that is the story we shall narrate later on. But he was saved. For his past activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he was saved. That story we shall get later on.



*So this is the safest position. Otherwise this material world is full of danger. It is dangerous place. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, duḥkhālayam. It is the place of miseries. You cannot become happy in a place which is meant for miseries. That we have to understand. Kṛṣṇa says, the Supreme Personality, that duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: [Bg. 8.15] this material world is place of miserable condition. And that also aśāśvatam, not permanent. You cannot stay. Even if you make a compromise that "Never mind it is place of misery. I shall make adjustment and I shall stay here..." People are so much attached in this material world, I have got practical experience. In 1958 or '57, when I first published this book, Easy Journey to Other Planets, so I met one gentleman. He was very enthusiastic, "So we can go to other planet? You are giving such information?" "Yes. And if you go, you will not come back." "No, no, then I don't want to go." (laughter) He said the whole idea is that we shall go another planet just like they are making the fun. They are going to moon planet, but they could not stay there. They're coming back. That is scientific advancement. And if you go there, why don't you stay there? And I read the newspaper that when the Russian aeronautics went, they were looking down, "Where is Moscow?" (laughter)

*So our attachment is so strong. That even it is duḥkhālayam... Just like some hogs, they are living in filthy place and eating stool. And if you say that "I will take you somewhere else, a good place," then they will not go there. This happened. It is stated in the Bhāgavata that once the king of heaven, he was cursed to become hog. And he was living amongst the hog society. And when Lord Brahmā came to call him back, that "Mr. such and such, for your bad behavior you became hog. Now come back to heaven," so he refused, "No, I have got so much responsibility. I cannot go." You see? This is material... It is called māyā, illusion. Even you are in the most abominable condition of life, we will feel, "Now we are very happy." So that is our position. We do not want to leave this place. Therefore we create nationalism, Communism, this "ism," that "ism," because we want to stay here permanently. But unfortunately nobody will be allowed to stay even if you want to stay. That is the miserable condition of material life. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. So we have to leave this place. And when we leave, then, according to our proportion of sinful or pious activities, we get next body. So those who are very, very sinful, they go to the hellish condition of life, the planets. They are down this universe. There is the kingdom of Pluto, or Yamarāja. And he comes at the time of death, and the sinful man... Is very, very fierceful, odd looking, and they come to take. So here it is said that one who has once surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, for them there is no such fear. Even in dream they will not see the order*-carriers of Yamarāja.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving this benefit to the human society. It is very easy, not difficult. Without any condition. You simply chant and remember Kṛṣṇa. It is not at all difficult. Everyone can... Here you are seeing the Deity of Kṛṣṇa. So while chanting, if you remember this Deity, is it very difficult? We are opening these centers, giving this education, and from śāstras, all information we are giving. So you take advantage of it. Don't spoil life. Labdhvā sudurlabham idaṁ bahu*-sambhavānte [SB 11.9.29]. This human form of life is obtained after many, many millions of years. We have to come through the evolutionary process from aquatics to plants, trees, insects, serpents, birds, beasts. In this way we have come to this human form of life. And in this life we can hear about Kṛṣṇa, think about Kṛṣṇa, see Kṛṣṇa's Deity, so many opportunities. And if you take this opportunity, be accustomed to think of Kṛṣṇa... When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, means God. Kṛṣṇa is the God, Supreme. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So Kṛṣṇa has very kindly agreed to come to your city, Denver city, this temple. Take advantage of it. Come daily, see Kṛṣṇa, think of Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, and be happy. This is our movement. We want to see that everyone is happy. That is the Vedic vision. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is human life. Human life means paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, to do others something auspicious. That is human life. The animal life means do..., "For my good, I will do harm to many others." That is animal life. So this is not life, the human life, that for our sense gratification, we are killing so many animals, we are doing so many mischievous things, we are cheating others. We can do that, but we are becoming more and more implicated. At the time of death the Yamarāja will come and take us to the hellish condition. Therefore foolish people they want to forget that there is next life. No, there is next life. We are discussing every day. Next life is there. We are every moment getting a different body. This is the scientific study. I do not know why they cannot understand. This is biology. Biology means we are, every moment we are getting a new body. This is biology.

*So we have to give up this body and we have to accept another body. So labor or work for such body which will no more be material body. This is intelligence. Mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. Next body means as we are acting, according to the resultant action of our activities, we get next body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. How you get next life? In this life we are acting in a certain way, and by nature we shall get a similar body. Nature's law is so perfect that the law you... Just like infection. I have several times explained. You infect some disease, the disease will come out. Not that somebody will come to award you the disease. By nature's way, it will come out. If you say that "Somebody will come," no. The nature's law is so perfect. Just like if you touch fire, immediately it will burn, not that you have to wait. Similarly, nature's law. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. As you are associating with different modes of material nature, you are creating your future.

*So there is future life. You should take it. You should try to understand it. It is not very difficult, but by the modern education we have become so dull*-headed, we cannot understand the simple truth that we have to change this body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. So this is a fact. You take it. So we must have the next life at least without any danger. Not to go to the hellish planet. At least remain in this planet. That we can do. Yānti bhūtāni bhūtejyā. If you want to stick to this planet or this world, that also you can get the facility. And if you want to go to the higher planets, that also you can get. And if you go to the hellish planet, that also the possibility is there. And if you want to go to Kṛṣṇa, that possibility... [break] ...yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām [Bg. 9.25]. So we are creating a situation by our activities, our next life. This is the fact. So why not work for going back to Kṛṣṇa? This is intelligence. So what is the benefit of going to Kṛṣṇa? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam [Bg. 15.6]. You won't have to again come back and accept this material body. This is benefit.

*So sakṛd api kṛṣṇa manaḥ. Mind has to be fixed up to something. The yogis, karmīs, the jñānīs and the bhaktas. The karmīs, their mind is fixed up, "Where to get money? Where to get money?" That's all. This is karmī. Just to live comfortably, enjoy sense gratification, this is karmī. And jñānī means they want to... Because they are disgusted. They are better than the karmīs. They want to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence, jñānī. And yogi, they... Actual, their business is, yogi, dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. The yogis, they are always in meditation and thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is real yogi, not to show some gymnastic feats. These things are required to concentrate the mind. But where to concentrate the mind? Concentrate the mind in the Supreme Soul, or Kṛṣṇa, or Viṣṇu. That is yoga system. So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is above all of them because by nature, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he cannot think anything else except Kṛṣṇa. He is worshiping the Deity in the temple, he is going to distribute books, Kṛṣṇa books, he is talking of Kṛṣṇa, he is eating kṛṣṇa-prasādam, and always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. So here it is said sakṛd api. If once one does like this, he becomes saved. So if we go on with this habit, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our position is very secure, and keep yourself in that secure position rigidly. Then your life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760519SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.19

-

Honolulu, May 19, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Chapter One, verse number nineteen. Is that verse number right?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nineteen. Yes. Sakṛn.



Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat)



*sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*niveśitaṁ tad*-guṇa-rāgi yair iha

*na te yamaṁ pāśa*-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān

*svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa*-niṣkṛtāḥ

[SB 6.1.19]



*So sakṛn manaḥ. Sakṛt means even in once in ecstasy, mind, kṛṣṇa padāravindayoḥ, the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, if one thinks, niveṣitam, with full ecstasy and absorption, if one thinks very nicely about the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, tad*-anurāgi, being attached, anurāgi, yaiḥ, anyone, iha, in this material world... Then what happens? Na te yamaṁ pāśa-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān. Yama-pāśa... Yamarāja, the superintendent of death... After death one goes to Yamarāja. Not the devotees, but the nondevotees. Na te yamaṁ pāśa-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān svapne: "Even in dream they do not see Yamaraja." Svapne 'pi paśyanti cīrṇa-niṣkṛtāḥ. And completely freed from all reaction of sinful activities simply by once thinking of Kṛṣṇa. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, but if we become at least once in life in ecstasy in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then all our sinful reaction of life is finished. Unfortunately, we again commit sinful life. Otherwise, by chanting once Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one becomes immediately free from the reaction.



*But the māyā is so powerful that it induces again to commit sinful life. So we have to promise... Just like Jagāi Mādhāi. They were delivered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They were very sinful, their activities. Sinful means that has become ordinary things nowadays in Kali*-yuga. They... What is that sinful? They were drunkards, illicit sex, meat-eater, and gambling. These four things, they were very much addicted, so they were rejected from the society. The society was so pure. Five thousand years before, Parīkṣit Mahārāja gave the Kali-yuga four places. First of all he wanted to kill Kali. Then he begged pardon, "Sir, I am also your praja, a citizen in your kingdom. So it is my business to kill these animals. So why you are punishing me? So give me protection. What can I do?" So Parīkṣit Mahārāja allowed, "No, you cannot do in my kingdom. You have to go out." So Parīkṣit Mahārāja was the emperor of the whole world, so the Kali, he said, "Sir, you say go out of your kingdom, but where is not your kingdom? Everywhere, throughout the whole world, where shall I go?" Then he designated that "You stay in these four places." "What are those places?" "Now, where illicit sex, brothel, prostitutes are going on. You can live there. And where unnecessary animal killing is going on, you can stay here. And where drinking, intoxication, is encouraged, you can stay there. And where gambling is there, you can stay there." So he could not find any place throughout the whole world where these things were going on. That is the kingdom of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. There was no chance. So it is the government's duty to see that people are very nicely ruled so that they become all pious. That is the duty of the government. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Because if the king, monarch, is properly instructed, and if he orders that "My subject, my citizens, should follow this order," then it will be automatically followed out. By king's order...

*So in the Kali*-yuga, this age, there is no such king. There is no such government. Therefore people are becoming polluted. It is the duty of the guru, the duty of the parents, duty of the government to train people in such a way that they may become pious, sinless. But they do not believe, even in the next life, that "If we act impiously, then we have to suffer next life." They avoid to believe that there is next life. But there is next life. In the morning we were talking about this. How you can say there is no next life? The child has got next life: a boy. The boy has got next life: a young man. And the young man has next life, to become old man. Similarly, the old man has got next life. It is very common logic. And it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. Even if you do not understand, your dull brain, but we have to accept the words of Kṛṣṇa. That is the critical point. If we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, everything will be solved. There will be no problem.

*Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is to induce people to take as it is. Don't make any amendment, interpretation. As Kṛṣṇa says, you do it; *then your life is successful. The instruction is there. It is not that we are manufacturing some ideas. No. That is not our business. We are following the same principle as Kṛṣṇa said to the sun*-god:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



evaṁ paramparā prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo...

[Bg. 4.2]



*The same thing. We have no difficulty. If you say, "How can I take instruction from Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is not present." No, Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction. The Bhagavad*-gītā is there. Not that it is necessary... Kṛṣṇa is always present, but you have no eyes to see. That is another thing. Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu cayāntara-stham. Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere, even within the atom. But we cannot see. That is another thing. I have no eyes to see. But if I develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then I'll see constantly Kṛṣṇa. This is the effect. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to develop love for Kṛṣṇa. So one who has developed this love for Kṛṣṇa, he can see Kṛṣṇa every moment. There is no difficulty. Kṛṣṇa is present. So even though you think that Kṛṣṇa is not present, but He is present by words, Bhagavad-gītā. He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa, the person, and Kṛṣṇa's words, Bhagavad-gītā, there is no difference. Advaya-jñāna, no duality. Everything is one, absolute. Kṛṣṇa is absolute, Kṛṣṇa's instruction is also absolute, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes absolute. Everything. That is Absolute Truth. There is no difference. In the material world the name and the thing is different. Suppose here is mango, so mango is the thing and mango is the name. So if I simply say "Mango, mango, mango," there is no mango. There must be the thing, mango. That is duality. This is the world of duality. Absolute means the name mango and the mango thing is the same. Otherwise what is the... If they're different, then what is the use of chanting Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa chanting means Kṛṣṇa, this word, and Kṛṣṇa the person, the same. Therefore by constant chanting means constantly associating with Kṛṣṇa. Then we are becoming purified. Purified. There is no difference.



*So we have to understand this philosophy. Everything is there in the book. So we have to read it carefully, understand it through the teacher's or guru's instruction. So in this way, if our mind becomes fixed up in Kṛṣṇa the person or the Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa word, sakṛt, once only... Sakṛt means once only, yes. Kṛṣṇa padāravindayoḥ, pandaro(?), niveśitam, fully absorbed. This practice, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, means to practice this, how to fix up the mind always at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also advised the same thing: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. This is yoga, meditation. If you simply sit down in a place and you... It is recommended that in a solitary place and sitting straight, right angle, and not closing the eyes but half open-this is yoga practice*-and looking over this point of nose, and observing celibacy, brahmacarya, following the rules and regulations, in this way you can practice yoga. Not that you can do whatever nonsense you like and you have become a yogi. This bluff is going on. The yoga system-first yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ, to control the senses. And now it is going on, transcendental meditation, that "After practicing yoga you will increase your sex power." This is going on. And that is accepted as yoga, and they are paying for it, thousands, yes. This is going on. Yoga-indriya... Just the opposite. People want sense gratification. If somebody encourages, "Yes, you take this mantra and you'll be very powerful sex enjoyer," so people will pay for that: "Yes, give me that." This rascaldom is going on. You see? So what we can do? We can simply explain, but people want to be cheated. That is the thing. Satya bole to mare lata(?) There is a Hindi proverb that "If somebody speaks the truth, it is received in loggerhead, and if he speaks lies, all bluffing, then it is relieved and payment is there."

One scientist in Delhi, our Delhi festival, he said very nicely that "We scientists, we are just like learning how to bark like dog." Yes. He said very plainly. Because a dog is barking, everyone knows. But if there is a tent and advertisement, yes, that "Mr. such and such will bark like a dog," and people will come and pay ten dollars' fee: "A man is barking. Very wonderful. Let us see." So these rascals, the chemists, they are trying to manufacture living being within test tube, and they are becoming very famous: "Oh, now they are making life in the..." Rascal, there are so many hundreds and millions of life are there, every day being created. What credit you'll get if you manufacture a life within test tube? But the rascals, they are: "Oh, scientists. He is now going to manufacture life." "No, show me how made..." "Yes, we are trying. It will be in future." Yes. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara... There was one professor. He came to California. He was speaking how from matter life can be there. He has written one volume, book, and he has got Nobel Prize, and the book's name is Evolution of Chemicals and Life. So he is also doctor in chemistry, our Svarūpa Dāmodara. He was also present there. As soon as he asked, "Sir, if I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" at that time he said, "That I cannot say." "Why you cannot say? You are speaking that 'Combination of chemical brings in life.' " We are writing one book that life is from life, not from matter. That is not possible. These rascals are simply bluffing that "From chemicals life can be manufactured." No. We challenge.

*So these things are going on. We want to be cheated, and there are so many cheaters. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. The Bhāgavata has discussed everything. These rascals are andhā, blind, and one blind man is promising to lead other blind men. So what will be the result? If one man is not blind, he can lead hundreds of blind men. That is fact. But if the leader is also blind, then what is the use of leading such blind men? So that is discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*Īśa tantra, by the laws of nature or laws of God... Laws of nature means laws of God. They accept, "By nature it is..." But they do not know who is behind this nature. That is intelligence. Nature is dead matter. It cannot... Just like this microphone. This is matter, material. What is that? Some iron, some other thing, some wood, some... But this iron-wood combination cannot take place and become a microphone. No. There is a life behind this iron and wood, and he has manufactured. Therefore it is working. But these rascals, they are thinking that combination of this iron and wood and something else, it has become microphone. No. It is a machine, but machine is manipulated and manufactured by life, not that automatically the iron-wood becomes a machine. No. So these rascals, they cannot understand that... The nature is working, that's all right, but how it is working? What is the background? That they do not know. That answer is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My superintendence it is working," Kṛṣṇa says. That's a fact. You might have manufactured a very big machine. That is all manufactured by some light. Not that the iron and wood has come together, a skyscraper building*-the bricks have come all together automatically. They say, "By chance." What is this nonsense? By chance these bricks have come and piled and become rooms? Just see. These things are going on, rascals. Therefore andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. (aside:) Let him sleep somewhere.



*So this is going on. Don't be misled. Īśa*-tantrya, by the laws of nature, we are bound up tight, hands and legs. We are not independent. You cannot do anything independently. You are completely under the clutches of material nature. And behind the material nature is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore our business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and take knowledge from Him, and then you become perfect. That is explained here, sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor niveśitaṁ tad-guṇa-rāgi yair iha. Who will take instruction from Kṛṣṇa? Tad-guṇa-rāgi. When you understand that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. We have to take instruction from Him." Nobody is perfect except Kṛṣṇa. Or one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is perfect; one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is perfect. Just like a child. He does not know what it is, but if he takes instruction from his father or teacher that "This is microphone," so when he says, "This is microphone," this is perfect. He may be child, but because he has learned from his father or teacher, "This is microphone," and he says, "This is microphone. This is this," then it is perfect. So the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is perfect, and the teacher or guru who speaks the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfect. And if he manufacture his own ideas and becomes more than Kṛṣṇa, then he's a rascal number one. There is no benefit.

Thank you very much. (end)



750704SB.CHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.20

-

Chicago, July 4, 1975



*Nitāi: Translation. "In this connection, the learned scholars and saintly persons give as an example the description of one very old historical incident, wherein a discussion takes place between the order*-carriers of Lord Viṣṇu and the order-carriers of Yamarāja. Please try and understand it as I describe it to you."



Prabhupāda:



atra codāharantīmam

itihāsaṁ purātanam

*dūtānāṁ viṣṇu*-yamayoḥ

saṁvādas taṁ nibodha me

[SB 6.1.20]



*So here is, one example is given, itihāsa. Itihāsa means history. The Vedic system of itihāsa, it is not the modern history. Modern... Itihāsa means some incidence which took place long, long ago, and such incidence is very beneficial to hear so that we can follow. That is called itihāsa. It is not chronological record of all incidences. Only important things. Purātanam. Purātanam means old and important. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is explaining to Parīkṣit Mahārāja how important is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now he is giving one incidence of history*-example is better than precept-how Ajāmila was saved simply by chanting once..., not once, many times, Nārāyaṇa. That is the itihāsaṁ purātanam. In the Vedic literatures there are itihāsas, or histories. Just like Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata is the history. Bhārata means India, and Mahā means greater. Greater India. Just like modern age they use "Greater Britain," "Greater this," so many, same thing. Mahābhārata means "Greater..." Mahā means great, and Bhārata means India. "The history of Greater India." Although India is very small now in comparison to... Although it is called subcontinent, still, in comparison to your America or Africa, it is very small. But formerly it was not so small. Greater India means India and outside also. And so far we collect records from the Mahābhārata, part of Europe, also India. Up to Greek and Rome. Therefore it is called Mahābhārata. And when there was the Battle of Kurukṣetra, all kings and rulers from different parts of the world, they joined either this party or that party. The Kaurava, the dynasty of the Kurus, they were ruling all over the world. The capital was Hastināpura, which is now known as New Delhi. It is very old. And the emperor, up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, they were ruling all over the world. There was one flag, not many flags. Therefore it is called Mahābhārata.



*So Mahābhārata, the Battle of Kurukṣetra was executed by two section of brothers of the same family. It was the one empire, one king, but Dhṛtarāṣṭra and his younger brother... They were two brothers. So Dhṛtarāṣṭra being blind, he was not qualified to occupy the throne, so his younger brother, Pāṇḍu, he was given the throne. And Pāṇḍu died untimely, keeping his children, these five brothers, Pāṇḍavas. Because they were son of Pāṇḍu, they were known as Pāṇḍavas. So Pāṇḍu also belonged to the Kuru family, and Dhṛtarāṣṭra's son also belonged to the Kuru family. Actually they are Kauravas. But when there was fight between the two brothers' son, one party was known as Kaurava, and the other party was known as Pāṇḍava. Therefore Dhṛtarāṣṭra says in the Bhagavad*-gītā beginning, māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva [Bg. 1.1]. Māmakāḥ means "my sons," and... Because both of them are Kurus, now they are divided, māmakāḥ, "my sons," and Pāṇḍavas, "the Pāṇḍu's sons." Kim akurvata sañjaya [Bg. 1.1].

*And this Kurukṣetra is dharma*-kṣetra. Not because the fight was there and Kṛṣṇa was on the battlefield, therefore it is called dharma-kṣetra. Sometimes it is interpreted like that. But actually Kurukṣetra was dharma-kṣetra since very, very long time. In the Vedas it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret: "If one wants to execute ritualistic ceremony, he should go to Kurukṣetra." And it is the system still now in India, if there is some disagreement or quarrel between two parties, so still they would go to the temple-temple is dharma-kṣetra-so that one may not dare to speak lie in front of the Deity. This was still going on. Even one is very low in mentality, still, if he is challenged that "You are talking this false. Now speak before the Deity," he will hesitate, "No." This is India still. You cannot speak lies before the Deity. That is offense. Don't consider that Deity is a marble statue. No. Svayaṁ bhagavān. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. As soon as He saw Jagannātha Deity, He immediately fainted. "Oh, here is My Lord." Not like us: "Oh, here is some statue." No. It is the question of appreciation. So you appreciate or not appreciate, the Deity is the Supreme Personality of Godhead personally. We should always remember. So we shall be very careful before the Deity, not to commit offense. In serving Him, in offering Him prasādam, in dressing Him, we should always think, "Here is personally Kṛṣṇa." He is personally, but due to our lack of knowledge, we cannot understand it.

*So everything in the śāstra we should follow. This is called brahminical culture. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means brahminical culture*-the cultural exhibition of the first-class men, first-class men. The brāhmaṇa is to be understood as the first-class man within the human society. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Itihāsa, history, history means to understand the activities of the first-class man. That is history. They pick up the most important incidences. Therefore the example is given here that udāharanti imam itihāsaṁ purātanam. Because it is a first-class incidence... Otherwise, if you record the history of the whole period, then where..., who will read that, and who will appreciate that, and where you will keep that? Daily so many things are happening. Therefore, according to Vedic system, the only important incidences are recorded in the history. Therefore it is called Purāṇa. Purāṇa means old history. Purātanam. Purātanam means very, very old. That are recorded. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the collection of very old history, historical incidence. Itihāsa purāṇānāṁ sāraṁ sāraṁ samuddhṛtya(?). Sāram means essence. Not that all nonsense records have to be taken. No. Sāraṁ sāram, only the important, essence, that are to be recorded. This is called Indian history. Mahābhārata... Mahā means Greater India. Greater India, there were so many incidences were there, but the most important incidence, the Battle of Kurukṣetra, is there. Not that all the battles should be recorded.

*So long the human history is there, there must be war. You cannot avoid it. Because it is material world, disagreement, misunderstanding must be there. You cannot avoid it. Because everyone is not of the same standard. That is not possible. Somebody is in the lower standard, somebody is in the middle standard, and somebody in the highest standard. That is division: goodness, passion, and ignorance. You cannot avoid it. So out of these three qualities, goodness, passion and ignorance, the ignorance and passion are base quality, and goodness is first*-class quality. So the human life means we are born either in the base qualities... Nobody is born in the first-class quality. One who is born in this material world... May be somebody has taken his birth in the mode of goodness, but very rare. But maybe. Mostly they are born in the base qualities, ignorance and passion. But the śāstras are there. Anyone can be raised to the first-class quality by training. That is human civilization.

janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ

saṁskārād bhaved divjaḥ

*veda*-pāṭhād bhaved vipro

brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ



*This is the process. When you take your birth, that birth is not significant*-a śūdra, fourth-class man. Everyone is born fourth-class man. So if you keep them fourth class and degrade them into fifth class, sixth class, then how there will be peace? How there will be peace? Therefore in your country, in America, they are now perplexed, "Crime, Why and What to Do?" Because you kept them fourth class, and they are going down to be fifth class, sixth class, how you can expect peace? It is not possible. If you do not elevate them... He is already born śūdra, janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Now you have to reform him. Saṁskārāt. Saṁskāra means reforming. You are born śūdra. You are inclined to do something, so many things-intoxication, illicit sex and drinking and gambling and meat-eating. These are all śūdra qualities or less than that. Śūdras also, they abide by the Vedic orders. Śūdras also do not do whimsically whatever he likes. Śūdras, they are taken among the, in the Vedic society... Because śūdras also, they are last class, fourth class, they are eager to follow the orders or the orderly things as given by the brāhmaṇas. Therefore śūdras, up to śūdras, accepted as bona fide classification. And below the śūdras, they are called caṇḍālas, caṇḍālas, fifth grade. They are also mentioned, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśāḥ. Everything is analyzed.



*So human civilization should be to raise the fourth*-class man to the first-class man. That is human civilization. But there is no idea who is first-class man. Everyone is a drunkard, everyone is illicit sex hunter, and everyone is gambler, and everyone is meat-eater. Where is first-class man? There is no first-class man. All fourth-class man. And they are being taught simply how to manufacture big, big skyscraper, and every year, new model of car. Is that civilization? That is not civilization. You may be advanced in technology. So technology means technician. Suppose a man knows how to work in electricity, in so many things. Does it mean he is a learned man? No. Learned, first-class man, that is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śucis titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānam, vijñānam āstikyam brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. These are the first class. There is nothing mentioned that "electrician" or a "motor mechanics" and a... (laughter) So you are misled. Therefore you are facing this crisis, that "Crimes, and Why and What to Do?" So unless you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to create first-class man, you are doomed. You must know this. Therefore, those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is my request that you help your countrymen how to become... At least, there must be a section of men first-class so that people will see. They are appreciating. I know that. When I was going from Los Angeles to Hawaii, one priest in plain dress came to see me. He came to..., "Oh, Swamiji, can I speak with you?" "Yes, come here." So his first question was that "How your disciples look so bright?" They are appreciating that "Here is a first-class man." So I replied, "The process is so nice. Face is the index of mind. If you become purified within, then your faces will be bright. If you dirty within his heart, how you can be brightened? No, that is not possible. Face is the index of mind."

*So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means to purify inside. Purify inside. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So, of course, we are trying our best. Now, you American boys and girls, try to understand more and more and help your countrymen how to become first-class men. That I have requested every time, that from material point of view, you are already first class because you are not poverty-stricken. You have got enough everything. But in spite of materially first class, bigger or stronger than other nations, because there is no training spiritual, therefore there is crime. Therefore there is crime. And it is very difficult to solve. So this is the problem. I am talking since yesterday when as soon as I saw the Times magazine and the heading, "Crime: Why and What to Do?" Yes, this is a problem. It is a problem. But the solution is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Solution is here. And it is very easy to become first-class men. You know by practical experience: simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That's all. It is not difficult. Anyone, even a child can do it. So increase this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and give them nice prasādam.

So one Ajāmila was delivered by chanting Nārāyaṇa's name, you can deliver many millions of Ajāmila. The process is the same. The process has not changed. Therefore he is quoting that itihāsam atra codāharanti imam itihāsaṁ purātanam. It is spiritual. It is not that now the mode has changed. No. What was potent millions of years ago, that is potent still. That is spiritual. It does not change. Therefore it is said, itihāsaṁ purātanam. Although it is very old, but the effect is the same, effect is the same. In the old times people used to eat and get satisfaction; the same satisfaction is now also. You eat; *you feel satisfaction. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending*-this is the material necessities. So the such necessities were in the old, millions of years ago, and those necessities are still there. It is no change actually. So this is the process how to... They are now thinking, "Why there is crime, and why, what is the remedy?" They are think in the material way. They are thinking that "We have got enough everything. Why there should be crime?" But they do not know that unless you make first-class men by training, the fourth-class man will degrade more and more. Just like a child, if you don't send him to school to get education, he will be street boy and degrade more and more. So this is the problem. So how to train first-class man, that method is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And take it seriously, and if you actually love your countrymen, raise them to the standard of first-class man.

*Thank you very much. [break] Not in this way. This is not the process. The process is you must be free. Don't manufacture something. That is the way of dancing. You have seen all the Pañca*-tattva. They are dancing like this. So you should follow them. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760520SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.20

-

Honolulu, May 20, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter One, verse number twenty? Is that the number, twenty? (devotees repeat)



atra codāharantīmam

itihāsaṁ purātanam

*dūtānāṁ viṣṇu*-yamayoḥ

saṁvādas taṁ nibodha me

[SB 6.1.20]



"In this regard, learned scholars and saintly persons describe a very old historical incident involving a discussion between the order carriers of Lord Viṣṇu and those of Yamarāja. Please hear of this from me."



So Yamarāja is the superintendent or the judge for considering what kind of punishment should be given to a certain sinful person. After death, those who are sinful, they are taken to Yamarāja for judgment, what kind of punishment one has to be given. And those who are pious devotees, they are taken charge by the Viṣṇudūta. I think the Christian doctrine, that in this life either you go to hell or go to heaven. Is it not?

Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is nice. The same thing. This human form of life is a chance. Actually, in this material world we are all suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You cannot make it a happy place. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa says, who has created this material world, He says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Duḥkha means unhappiness; *ālayam means place. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. That is also temporary. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānāṁ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ [Bg. 8.15]. So this is place of duḥkhālayam. Any commonsense man can understand that Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā... You may challenge, "Where is the unhappiness? We are very happy." Madmen. Kṛṣṇa points out, "No, it is not place of happiness." Why it is not place of happiness? Now, janma-mṛtyu-jarā vyādhi-duḥkha-dośānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Why don't you see the real unhappiness? This is real duḥkha, or unhappiness. What is that? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. You have to die. You have to take birth within the womb with so much risk that even your mother can kill you. Is it very happiness? At the present moment the mother... When the child sleeps very peacefully, that "I am on the lap of my mother," now the time has come when the mother is killing the child. So is it very happiness place? That you cannot trust even your mother, what to speak of others. The time has come, degraded, that... Naturally a child, he thinks, "I am safe now with my mother." But the Kali-yuga is so cruel that even with mother you are not safe. And still you say it is a place of happiness? This is called illusion. It is not place.



So this is going on. Not only in the human form of life, in the animal form of life, in trees and so on, so on, it is going on. Eight million, four hundred... So this is a chance given, human form of life. Just like after imprisonment you are again given little freedom. You cannot be completely free; however, you may declare that "I belong to free nation..." Free nation means you are free, certainly, but not absolutely free. You are dependent on the state laws. Similarly, nobody can be free. That is not possible.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



These rascals, they are thinking, "I am free." No. Nobody is free. But because we are not free, that does not mean there is no freedom. There is freedom. That is not in this world. That is in the spiritual world. Just like mirage, the desert: the animal does not know that there is no water; it is simply reflection by the sunshine. There is some reflection. There is no water. So a man does not run after such false water, but animal runs, and they lost in the running after. Similarly, this material world is reflection of the spiritual world. There is no happiness. Happiness is there in the spiritual world, but we are running after it, being ignorant. But that does not mean... Although we are running after false water, it does not mean there is no water. Water is there, but not in the desert. That is intelligence. So happiness is there, but not in this material world. It is in the spiritual world.



*So we have forgotten. There is no education. So anyway, nature gives us the chance. So either you take the Biblical truth or Vedic truth... So this is... The human form is given to us. Now you make your choice: whether you are going to hell or you are going to heaven. That's a fact. If you want, you can go to back to home, back to Godhead, or if you want to remain in this material world and go under the rules and regulation of birth and death, then make your choice. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā.

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṛn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*So generally the karmīs, they want happiness in this life, and if he is intelligent enough, if he believes in the next life, then he makes some provision for next life. Next life is there. Only the rascals, they cannot understand. It is very simple. Next life is there. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. There is no doubt about it. So next life you can prepare in this life, where you want to go. If you go, want to go to the higher planetary systems, you can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṛn yānti... [Bg. 9.25]. If you want to go to the Pitṛloka... Don't think like the so-called scientists that only this planet is full of living beings and other all vacant. No, that is not the fact. Every planet, it is congested with living entities. That information given there. That is... The whole bunch of universe is just like a tree. At night you have seen, it is rotating. On each and every planet there is life, full of life. Don't think there is no life. There is life. Why not there life? If this planet contains so many living entities, why not in other planets? So from Vedic scripture we understand.



*So we can go anywhere. There are three divisions: ūrdhva, madhya, and adhaḥ*-upper planetary system, middle planetary system, and lower planetary system. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. If you practice here how to remain in the modes of goodness... Goodness means brahminical qualification: satya śamo damo titikṣa ārjava, to become truthful, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, satya śama titikṣa, tolerant; satya śamo damo titikṣa ārjava, simple, no duplicity; jñānam, full knowledge of everything; vijñānam, practical application; *jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam... Āstikyam means to accept Vedic literature as fact, not imagination. That is called āstikyam, or theistic. Āstikyaṁ brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. This is called to live in the modes of goodness. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring every person to the platform of goodness, not even on the platform of passion, no, because ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā [Bg. 14.18]. At least, if you remain on the platform of goodness, then you can be promoted to the higher planetary system. Svarga, begins... Higher planetary system begins from the sun, moon, and there are others, Janaloka, Tapoloka, Maharloka, like that, up to Satyaloka, Brahmaloka. So this is the chance. So now you make your selection. Either you go in the upper planetary system or remain where you are or go down in animal life also.

*So this is the chance. We should not neglect. So if we misuse this human form of life like animals, then we are punishable. Then you have to go to the Yamarāja and he'll judge what kind of body you'll get. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Just like if you are criminal, then you are put into the magistrate's court and the magistrate decides what kind of punishment you must be given. So don't think you are, we are, every one of us, independent. No. No independent. And after death you are completely under the grip of material nature. That time you cannot say, "I don't care for anyone." No, you have to care. You can falsely become proud so long this body is there. You can talk all nonsense. But when the body is finished, now you are completely under the control of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. Then your quality will be judged. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everyone is under the control of this prakṛti, but rascals, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, too much bodily concept of life, bewildered, vimūḍha... Viśeṣa mūḍha, first-class rascal, vimūḍha. Vimudhātmā kartāham iti manyate. He says that "Whatever I like, I can do," kartā. No. That is not possible. So this life is preparation for the next life. You can prepare. It is in your hand. It is in your hand. God has given you the superior intelligence better than the animals. The animals are simply interested eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. So we have got better intelligence, so we must utilize it. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, you know, those who are, the song, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My Lord, I have simply wasted my life." Why? Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa na bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa-khāinu. "I got this nice human form of body for understanding, worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Now I did not do anything, that means knowingly I have taken poison."

*So if we misuse this human form of life only like animals, eating, sleeping, sex and fearing, then we are spoiling our life. We must prepare next life. If we don't, then after death we have to go to the Yamarāja, and he will decide what kind of next body... Body will change. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad... Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. After death you have to change the body. As you are changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly this old body, when it is no more usable, that means death. But the subtle body, mind, intelligence, that is... We have got proof. At night this body is silent, but your mind, intelligence and ego takes you somewhere. You dream that "I have come to here." Sometimes we dream, "I am flying in the sky," or gone to some forest or some friend's house or so many things. "I am talking with a beautiful girl or beautiful man." So this dream we every day see. So that means when this body stops, the gross body, the subtle body is there. Why don't you believe it? Unless the subtle body is working, how do you dream? The dreaming means subtle body is working. So transmigration of the soul means the soul is twice covered-subtle body and gross body-just like shirt and coat. So when this gross body is finished, the subtle body is there. It takes you to another body. The subtle body with the semina of the father, it is injected in the mother's womb, and then again you will develop another body. This is the process of transmigration. So this body, how you'll be transferred to another body, that will be judged by the Yamarāja. Daiva-netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. By our activities we shall be judged. Those who are criminal, they will be judged, not that everyone will be judged. So, and because those who are devotees, they are... Mad-yajino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. Those who have devoted their life, dedicated their life only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are sure. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is sure. They are going back to home, back to Godhead. And those who are not dedicated or taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are criminals. They will be taken to the Yamarāja's court, and Yamarāja will decide what kind of body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and he will be given a certain type of body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

*And so Śukadeva Gosvāmī is going to give example from the history about the Ajāmila, how he was in the beginning very good boy, brāhmaṇa, and then, under the influence of a prostitute, he fell down and became most degraded, and then again, because in the past he had some good asset of spiritual life... That is described in the Bhāgavata, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Spiritual life is so nice, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one has executed even for a short time, it may help to deliver him from the greatest dangerous way of life, and that history will be recited by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ. Dāsī patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. This is the beginning of the story, that in Kānyakubja... Kānyakubja is... Still the place is there in India. Kānyakubja is a very famous place. It is near Kanpur. There is a place, Kanpur. So there... Kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid. He was a brāhmaṇa, but he became under the clutches of a prostitute. And how naṣṭā-sadācāra, how he lost his brahminical qualification, saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ, by the association of prostitute, so this history will be recited. So tomorrow we shall speak of this.

Thank you very much. (end)



750705SB.CHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.21

-

Chicago, July 5, 1975



*Nitāi: "In the country known as Kānyakubja there was a brāhmaṇa of the name Ajāmila. Later on, he married a kept maidservant, a prostitute. On account of the association with the low*-class woman, he lost all his brahminical qualities."



Prabhupāda: This is the history. Yesterday we talked, itihāsam udāharanti, atra codāharanti imam itihāsaṁ purātanam. This Kānyakubja...



kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid

*dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ

*nāmnā naṣṭa*-sadācāro

*dāsyāḥ saṁsarga*-dūṣitaḥ

[SB 6.1.21]



This Kānyakubja is still there. It is now known as Kanauj, within the division of Kanpur. It is very old city resided by brāhmaṇas especially. Still, in that city the most inhabitants are brāhmaṇas. Just like Nadia, Navadvīpa. It was formerly, even in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, inhabited by brāhmaṇas, learned scholars. So similarly, in northern India this place, Kanauj, since very long, long time, it is a very celebrated place. Now this place is very much famous for manufacturing perfumes, rosewater, scented attars, like that.



*So anyway, it is history. Long, long ago there was a brāhmaṇa, dvija. Dvija means twice*-born: first birth by the father and mother... That kind of birth is obtainable by any person, man or animal. As soon as you take birth, there must be father and mother. Without father-mother, there is no question of birth. Therefore, in the human society they do not take this birth as very important. We are very much proud of becoming American or Indian on account of birth, but according to the Vedic civilization, simply the birth by father-mother is not very important. There must be second birth, dvija. Dvi means second, and ja means birth. So according to the Vedic civilization, a human being must be trained up to become dvija, or take his birth second time. This is human civilization. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Simply by ordinary birth by father and mother, it is śūdra. But the civilization is how a śūdra or less than śūdra can be elevated to the position of a brāhmaṇa. That is civilization.

*So, as I was explaining yesterday, that if you keep people fourth*-class man, then that is not advancement of civilization. Attempt should be made how a fourth-class man can be raised to the first-class position by culture and education. So this Ajāmila, he was trained up by his parents to be a qualified brāhmaṇa. What is that qualified brāhmaṇa? You have heard many times: śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucam ārjavaṁ titikṣā, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. These qualities should be developed. First of all, śama. Śama means equilibrium in the mental position. Mind is never disturbed. There are so many causes of the mind being disturbed. When the mind is not disturbed, that is called samaḥ. Guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate. That is perfection of yoga.

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito na duḥkhena

guruṇāpi na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



*This is training. Mind is very flickering. Even five thousand years ago, when Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa that "You make your restless mind fixed up," he frankly said, "Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham: [Bg. 6.34] "I see my mind is always very much agitated, and to control the mind is exactly an attempt to stop the wind. So it is not possible." But actually his mind was fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. So those who mind have been fixed up at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they have conquered. Their mind is fixed up. That is wanted. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. These are the qualifications of Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. He was very responsible emperor, but his mind was fixed up at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.



*So this is brahminical qualification, to practice how to fix up the mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and that is the perfection of yoga. Yoga means not to show some magical feats. No. Real perfection of yoga means to fix up the mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find the last conclusion of this yoga chapter, Sixth Chapter,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*That was encouraging to Arjuna because Arjuna thought, "Then I am useless. I cannot fix up." But his mind was already fixed up. Therefore Kṛṣṇa encouraged him, "Don't be discouraged. Anyone whose mind is already fixed up in Me always, he is the first*-class, topmost yogi." Therefore we should be always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, that means your mind is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of yoga. So to become a brāhmaṇa, this is the first qualification, to keep the mind fixed up, not being agitated, śama. And when your mind is fixed up, then your senses will be controlled. If you fix up your mind that "I shall simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam, no more business," then the senses will be controlled automatically. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati.



*So these are the different stages, how to become a brāhmaṇa. Śamaḥ damaḥ, then satyam, truthful. Truthful means in one sense ordinary truthful. But real truthful means to know the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth. So that Absolute Truth, who is Absolute Truth? Kṛṣṇa. We are searching after truth, what is the truth, what is the relative truth. But when you come to Kṛṣṇa, that is Absolute Truth. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. This is truth. Then what is the cause of this truth? This is the... This is the... Neti, neti. So when you come to Kṛṣṇa, so above Him there is no more truth. Kṛṣṇa has no cause, but He is the cause of everything, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, anādiḥ [Bs. 5.1]. He has no... People ask generally that "Everything has cause. What is the cause of Kṛṣṇa?" The answer is anādi: "He has no cause." That is God. Anādir ādiḥ: "He is the cause of everyone." Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].

*So if our mind is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa, then naturally the senses will be controlled. If we fix up our mind that we shall not do anything, dṛḍha-vratāḥ... Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. This is determination, that "I shall have nothing to do without Kṛṣṇa." Then you are first-class yogi-dvija, brāhmaṇa, everything. Everything. So this is..., these are the qualification of not dvija... Dvija is primary qualification of becoming a brāhmaṇa. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. By saṁskāra, by the reformatory process, one is initiated*-that is called dvija, dvitīya-janma. The spiritual master is the father, and the Vedic knowledge is the mother. This is called dvija, dvitīya-janma, second birth. So after being dvija, when the spiritual master sees that he is acquired sadācāra... Sadācāra means these four things: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling; taking bath thrice, rising early in the... These are called sadācāra. These are brahminical qualification.

*So this Ajāmila was very nicely trained up, born of a brāhmaṇa father, and his father trained up. But unfortunately, when he was young man, he was passing through the road, he saw one śūdra is embracing another śūdrāṇī, or prostitute. Now it is very common affair all over the world: a man is embracing, kissing. But this was not allowed in gentlemen's society. The śūdras, the fourth*-class man, they used to do that. Sometimes, not always. So he was young man. Naturally, when he saw that a young śūdra is embracing another young girl, śūdrāṇī, and she is not properly dressed, he became attracted. He became attracted. And they were drunk. So in this way he fell a victim of that prostitute. He liked that prostitute, and later on, he remained with her, and he had very good wife, very respectable family, brāhmaṇa, but he forgot everything. Therefore it is said, naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ: "He lost all brahminical qualification." So he was so much trained up, and still, by seeing the sex behavior of a śūdra and śūdrāṇī, he fell down long, long years ago. Now these things are very common affair. How the young man can be saved? It is very difficult. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given one panacea: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That can save you. Otherwise it is very difficult. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva... [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. By practicing the tapasya and yoga and... Nothing will help you, because the age is very fallen. He especially mentioned, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Otherwise one cannot...

*So he lost all sadācāra. Kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścit. Kaścit, kaścit means "some are..." Every brāhmaṇa was very elevated. One, somebody, kaścit. Kaścid dāsī*-patiḥ. And why he fell down? Because he married one maidservant, prostitute. The prostitute class, you will find in the history of India, but they are a class, a low-class woman. Otherwise, in gentleman class or higher class, namely the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya, it is not possible to mix freely. That is not possible. They still, in respectable families, the young girls, they are not allowed to go out, not to mix with any... The first young man, this, her husband, when the father-mother selects, then... This is the process. So prostitution was existent. Now I do not know what is the position. But in the low class, dāsī-pati, maidservant, sweeper, maidservant. One could mix and have the advantage of prostitution in the lower class, not in the higher class. So therefore it is stated that kaścid dāsī-patiḥ, dāsī-pati. Not the married wife, but dāsī-pati, a maidservant. And his name was Ajāmila. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā. So what was his condition? Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. He had no..., he lost all the sadācāra. Sadācāra, these are the sadācāra: to rise early in the morning, to take bath, attend maṅgala-ārātrika, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, read books, Vedic literature, and then prasādam-always some prescribed duty for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is called sadācāra. So Ajāmila, on account of this association of this prostitute, he lost all good qualities, sadācāra, and then he took all abominable professional for earning money. That will be described next verse.

Thank you very much. (end)



760521SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.21

-

Honolulu, May 21, 1976



Prabhupāda: (leads chanting, etc.)



kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid

*dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ

*nāmnā naṣṭa*-sadācāro

*dāsyāḥ saṁsarga*-dūṣitaḥ

[SB 6.1.21]



*So yesterday Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "In this connection I shall cite the example, historical example, of Ajāmila." So historical reference. It is not fiction because Kānyakubja is still there. The city of Kānyakubja is still existing there, and the Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago. So that means the city existed before five thousand... Kānyakubje. Kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvija means twice*-born. First-born by the father and mother, and the next birth is dvijaḥ, means by the father, spiritual master, and the mother, Vedic knowledge. This is called second birth. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁkāra means purificatory process. So that is human life, not that to beget a child. That begetting is going on by the cats and dogs. That is not... That is first birth. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. So that kind of birth is accepted as śūdra. Then he can be trained up.



*A śūdra, actually those who are by qualification śūdra... Śūdra means lamentation, simply changing. They accept something, and then they find it useless, and they lament. The so*-called scientists, philosophers, they're all śūdras because they say, "We have discovered something," and after few years, "Oh, it is now useless." Another theory. Śūdra. So śūdra cannot give you any education. That is not possible. Education has to be taken from brāhmaṇa. That is the Vedic system. Brāhmaṇa is the teacher because they are trained up-satya śama damo titikṣa ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma-svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Therefore in India still, not in the city but in the village, the brāhmaṇa is accepted as teacher, natural teacher. And there was... (aside:) You sit down properly. Yes. Brāhmaṇa, they are teachers, natural teachers, and there is no fees. No fees. Just like we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, teaching, but there was no fees. This is the teaching, real teaching. So brāhmaṇa should not charge anything, but they can take charity. So the students, they would bring charities naturally. This was brāhmaṇa's profession. They would not charge anything, but his disciples, students, would beg from door to door and bring. That is gurukula. Gurukula. Gurukula means every student should go to gurukula and learn to become very simple and obedient and self-controlled and learn how to address every woman as mother. This is guru..., from the very beginning. They would go every home. Small children or big children, they will address, "Mother, give us some alms." So every woman will give, and they would bring it to guru. And that is guru's property, not because he has begged this thing from somebody, it has become his property. No. It is guru's property. This is called brahmacārī gurukula, to gives one the training.

*So when he's trained up nicely, humble, self*-controlled, educated, then his second birth, second birth by Vedic knowledge. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformatory. He has become humble, meek, well-versed in śāstra. When these all qualifications are there, then guru says, "Now I recognize you." Upanayana. Upa means near, and nayana means bringing. So gradually the spiritual master brings him nearer. Then, when he's actually trained up, then it is called... The sacred ceremony, upanayana, means he has now come nearer to understand Vedic knowledge. Then he studies Vedas, dvija. When he is initiated, then his studying of the Vedas... Veda-paṭhād bhaved vipraḥ. So after this dvija, second birth, he studies Vedas. And when he's well versed in Vedas he is called vipra. Then, by studying Vedas, when he understands Kṛṣṇa... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said what is Vedic study. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vedic study means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Vedic study. If he does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then he's useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viśvaksena kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Everyone is executing his occupational duty. I give this meaning, "Dharma means occupational duty." It is not a sentiment, faith. Occupational duty. That is called dharma. Brahmācāri's dharma, gṛhastha's dharma, vānaprastha's dharma, occupational duty. So by discharging one's occupational duties very nicely-not as a machine regulation, no*-the result will be dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viśvaksena kathāsu yaḥ: [SB 1.2.8] he will gradually be interested to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is Vedic study. Not that after studying Vedas he becomes nirviśeṣavādī, impersonalist, or śūnyavādī. Then useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Vedas means knowledge, and Vedānta... Anta means last status or the end, end of. Everything has got some end, that "This is final, end." End means final. So Vedas means knowledge, and anta means end. So what is that end? That Vedānta is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore you'll find in every, at the end of every chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, brahma-sūtra-bhāṣye. Brahma-sūtra means Vedānta.



*So it is the natural comment by Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva is the writer of Vedānta philosophy, and he has written a comment personally so that in future, rascals may not misrepresent Vedānta. There are so many bhāṣyas, but that is not commentary. Real commentary... The author knows what he wants to speak. So Vedānta is the compilation by Vyāsadeva. So he knows what he wants to speak. What others have got the right? Just like Bhagavad*-gītā. The purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is known by Kṛṣṇa. Why the rascals comment in different way? They may write their rascal philosophy other... Why they touch Bhagavad-gītā and give different interpretation? They have no right. I have written a book; *I have got my purpose. Why you should poke your nose and make it a different purpose? This is very mischievous rascaldom. So we want to stop this. We present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa says. We don't allow any rascal to comment upon Bhagavad-gītā in a different way. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is very natural. If you have got a different type of philosophy, you can write. Why you should touch Bhagavad-gītā and misrepresent it? So because they are śūdras-their business is to cheat*-they do that. But a brāhmaṇa will not do that. Yathānugītānām. Yathānugītānām. Brāhmaṇa means as it is, they will describe. That is brāhmaṇa. And if one has got some motive, that "Bhagavad-gītā is popular book. Let me utilize it and make my rascal philosophy popular..." This is going on. Big, big politician, big, big mental speculator... No. That is wrong. That is... A brāhmaṇa should present as it is. Yathānugītānām. This word is used.

So this dvijaḥ, brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means one who has acquired these qualifications. Satya śama damo titikṣa. The first qualification of brāhmaṇa is to become truthful. He'll never speak lies. That is the first qualification. Satya śama, then controlling the senses; dama, controlling the mind. Śama means controlling the mind, and dama is controlling the senses. Śama dama titikṣa [Bg. 18.42]. Titikṣa means tolerance. Titikṣa ārjava, simplicity; and full knowledge, jñānam; *vijñānam, practical. Simply theoretical knowledge, no practical application-he is not brāhmaṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, guṇa-karma. Only guṇa is not good. Guṇa and karma. Karma means some act. Suppose you are initiated as a brāhmaṇa. That is not finish, that "Now I am initiated. I have got sacred thread. I can do all nonsense thing." No. You must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then you are brāhmaṇa. You always remember that. They are criticizing in India that I am giving a brāhmaṇa's position to these mlecchas and yavanas. You should be very careful so that we may not be subjected to criticism. If there are so many foreign brāhmaṇas in India and I am making brāhmaṇa in the Western countries, if they are still fallen, then what is this attempt? My attempt is futile. So kindly be responsible, those who are second initiated. If you fall down, then the whole movement becomes false. That is happening. So kindly rectify if that is happening, that guṇa-karma. You must acquire the qualities and must act accordingly. That is practical. Suppose one man is educated as medical man, but after taking his degrees he is playing football. So will anybody call him a medical man? He might have the qualification, medical qualification, but because he is not practicing as medical man he is useless. That is the śāstra injunction. Yady anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. If one has acquired some quality but he practices differently, then he should be called by the name of that practice. A medical man, after passing medical examination*-I am giving you crude example-if he is, he becomes a football player, then he will be called a football player, not a medical man. These are the sastric injunction.

*But there is no culture. There is no attention. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. But if we accept the Vedic civilization which is in nutshell*-everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā-then the whole world will be Vaikuṇṭha. You haven't got to go in the Vaikuṇṭha. Here you'll have Vaikuṇṭha. And next life will be Vaikuṇṭha. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Kṛṣṇa is giving the civilization, Vedic civilization. And if we thoroughly understand it, then we are fit for going back to home. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. So this Vedic civilization is so nice, and it is given in nutshell in simple words by the Supreme Lord Himself. If we take it, then immediately the face of the world will change, immediately. They have got this United Nation organization. If they take up Bhagavad-gītā and introduce the teachings all over the world, then it is successful, United Nation. Otherwise where is unity? All false.

*So these are the duties of the brāhmaṇa. To give proper education, he himself should be properly educated. That is called brahminical culture. And we offer our respect to Kṛṣṇa because He gives the brahminical culture. Namo brahmanya*-devāya. Because He is giving the brahminical culture. Without brahminical culture, useless. That is not civilization. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is offered obeisance, namo brahmanya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. He is first concerned for the cows and the brāhmaṇa. Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Then jagad-hitāya. Then He's concerned for the whole, other things. The first concern means cows and brāhmaṇa. Many times He has repeated, go-rakṣya. Why He did not say "pig-rakṣya"? No. He said, go-rakṣya, because without cows' milk there is no civilization. You will not have nice brain to understand things, simply speculate. We are discussing the philosophy of so many speculators, simply talking nonsense. Simply... Why? This speculator to another, he says, "I think, I..." What you are? You can think? First of all you become brāhmaṇa; *then you can think properly. Where is your education as brāhmaṇa? Where is that brain? Eating all nasty things and you become a brāhmaṇa? Therefore Kṛṣṇa's is go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca.

*The Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas, they used to live in the forest, and the king would offer them some cows. So they will draw some milk. And in the forest there are fruits, so they will eat fruits and milk. And if the disciples go to the village, beg some food grain, then sometimes they cook some food grains. Otherwise the brāhmaṇas used to live in the forest, drink milk and take fruit. That is sufficient. There was no need of jumping here and there. Anywhere you keep cows. And what cows to maintain? No expenditure. The fruits? The skin thrown away, and the cow will eat. And in exchange it will give you nice foodstuff, milk. Or it will eat in the grazing ground, some grass. So there is no expenditure of keeping cows, but you get the best food in the world. The proof is that the child born simply can live on milk. That is the proof. So anyone can live only on milk. If you have got the opportunity to drink one pound milk maximum, not very much*-half-pound is sufficient; *suppose one pound*-then you don't require any other foodstuff. Only this cow's milk will help you. It is so nice. And it gives very nice brain, not pig's brain. So it is so important thing. Other..., why Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya? He did not say that "pig-rakṣya." No. "Dog-rakṣya." No. Now they are interested in dog-rakṣya instead of cow-rakṣya. This is the civilization. They'll spend millions of dollars for dog, not for cow.

*So this kind of civilization will not bring any peace and prosperity. You have to take Kṛṣṇa's civilization if you want actually... That is human civilization. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*If you actually want śānti, peace, then you try to understand only three things. What is that? Sarva*-loka-maheśvaram: Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of everything. Just like we ask every day, "Who is the proprietor of the sea?" They do not know. Theories. But Kṛṣṇa said, "I am the proprietor," sarva-loka-maheśvaram, "not only of this sea." This Pacific Ocean is only one, insignificant. There are millions of Pacific Ocean flying in the sky. So who is the proprietor? Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am." You are not proprietor. There must be some proprietor. So who is that proprietor? Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." You have to know it, whether Kṛṣṇa is not proprietor. He says, "I am proprietor," but if you are doubtful, prove that He is not proprietor. But that you cannot do. Or bring another person who can claim like that, that "I am the proprietor." Therefore you have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the proprietor. And it is accepted by all great personalities. Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, all the ācāryas, Nimbārka, then Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, and our worshipable Deity, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Everyone has accepted. So unless we are grand fool, we can't deny this. It is not possible. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. We have to take knowledge by the disciplic succession.



*So let us get admission by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement propagana, what is this propaganda? He says that "Every one of you become guru." He wants not rascal imitation guru but real guru. That He wants. Because people are in darkness, we require many millions of gurus to enlighten them. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is, He said, that "Every one of you become guru." Āmāra ājñāya guru haya tāra ei deśa. You haven't got to go foreign countries. Wherever you are, you teach; *become guru. It doesn't matter. Ei deśa. He says, ei deśa. If you have got power, you can go other country, but it doesn't require. In whichever village, whichever country or town you are, you become a guru. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Āmāra ājñāya guru haya tāra ei deśa. "This country, this place." So, "But I have no qualification. How can I become guru?" There is no need of qualification. "Still I can become guru?" Yes. "How?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Whomever you meet, you simply instruct what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. You become guru." Everyone is very anxious to become guru, but rascal does not know how to become guru, a simple thing. So many gurus come from India in this country, all rascal, but they will not speak what Kṛṣṇa has instructed. Maybe for the first time this has begun in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise all rascals, they instructed something else, some meditation, this, that, all cheating.

Real guru is he who instructs what Kṛṣṇa has said. It is not that you maufacture your teaching. No. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There is no need of manufacturing. The instruction is already there. You have simply to say, "This is this." That's all. Is it very difficult task? Father said, "This is microphone." A child can say that "Father said this is microphone." He becomes guru. Where is the difficulty? The authority, father, has said, "This is microphone." A child only can say, "This is microphone." So similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme." So if I say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme," where is my difficulty, unless I cheat others to become the Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme? That is cheating. But if I say the simple truth, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is the proprietor of everything. He is to be worshiped," then where is my difficulty?

So that is our mission. All of you who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that is our request, that you, all of you, become guru but don't speak nonsense. That is request. Simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then you become brāhmaṇa. You'll be guru, and everything.

Thank you very much. (end)



701213SB.IND

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.22

-

Indore, December 13, 1970



Prabhupāda: So *Gītā* Bhavan is also imitating?



Haṁsadūta: They're also getting up earlier.



Prabhupāda: Earlier?



Haṁsadūta: I don't know.



*Prabhupāda: So this is very important point, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says. This is authority, that naṣṭa*-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. As soon as there will be contamination of illicit sex life, he will be bereft of all good character, this basic principle. And the whole world is now encouraged in that way. So how we can expect good character from the modern man? There is no possibility, if we accept this statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. So Ajāmila, being contaminated by that illicit sex life with a prostitute, he lost all his brahminical qualifications and gradually he was in need of money. Just like the other day I gave you the instance of a big high-court judge, because he was also of that type. I know his private character. He was most debauched and therefore he wanted money, ten thousand rupees per month. And in spite of his position as a high-court judge and getting four thousand, five thousand salary, he could not check from his falldown. So this is natural. If you indulge in illicit sex life and naturally other things, intoxication, gambling, then there will be no limit of expenditure. And to meet all those expenditure one has to adopt cheating or stealing. These processes has to be.



Woman: (Hindi)



*Prabhupāda: But... (Hindi) So by any means money wanted. So he adopted all disrespectful profession*-cheating, gambling and stealing, any way to live.



*bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair

garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ

bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir

yātayām āsa dehinaḥ

[SB 6.1.22]



The only attraction is family, kuṭumba. So for the sake of maintaining family, he was committing all kinds of sinful activities.



*So there was one Ajāmila at that time, but you will find many Ajāmilas like that at the present moment because it is the age of Kali. There was one Rāvaṇa. In the dress of a sannyāsī he kidnapped Lord Rāmacandra's wife, and nowadays you will find many Rāvaṇas like that. You see? The so*-called sannyāsīs, their business is to... This tendency is always there, but according to the age, sometimes it is very prominent and sometimes not so prominent. But this material world is so contaminated. In the days of Rāmacandra people were hankering after the kingdom of Rāma, even there was Rāvaṇa in the days of Rāmacandra. And what to speak of all these nonsense debauchees? Rāmacandra was so strict, and God Himself was ruling, and still, there was Rāvaṇa. But because Rāmacandra was there he was also killed. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām [Bg. 4.8]. God's business is to protect the faithful and kill the demons. That is always. Therefore we find Lord Viṣṇu, the four symbolic representation: for killing, the club and the cakra; and for protecting, the lotus flower and conchshell.

evaṁ nivasatas tasya

*lālayānasya tat*-sutān

kālo 'tyāgan mahān rājann

aṣṭāśītyāyuṣaḥ samāḥ



*In this way he was living with his prostitute wife, and many children he got because he was attracted to the prostitute, say, at the age of twenty, very young man. And as such... (aside:) Aiye. He begot many children. He begot many children. Evaṁ nivasatas tasya lālayānasya tat*-sutān. Tat-sutān. Here it is not stated that it is Ajāmila's son. The tat-sutān means the children were of the prostitute. Because she was not married, therefore that woman did not belong to him. Just like a land you possess. The production goes to the possessor of the land, not to others. Therefore, because the prostitute was not married to Ajāmila, her sons were not Ajāmila's sons. They were all sons of the prostitute. Therefore, at least still in India, a prostitute's son has no position in the society.



evaṁ nivasatas tasya

*lālayānasya tat*-sutān

kālo 'tyāgan mahān rājann

aṣṭāśītyāyuṣaḥ samāḥ



In this way, when he was about eighty years old, at that time, time came when he was to die.



tasya pravayasaḥ putrā

daśa teṣāṁ tu yo avamaḥ

bālo nārāyaṇo nāmnā

pitroś ca dayito bhṛśam



*Out of his many children, elderly children... He was eighty years old. They were all elderly children, grown up children, and there were ten, ten elderly children. Out of them, tesam tu yo avamaḥ, the youngest child, youngest child was named as Nārāyaṇa. Tasya pravayasaḥ putrā daśa teṣāṁ tu yo avamaḥ . Bālo, "a boy," nārāyaṇo nāmnā, "his name was Nārāyaṇa." Pitroś ca dayito bhṛśam. Naturally the youngest child becomes very favorite to the parents. So this Ajāmila was very much attached to the youngest child. Sa baddha*-hṛdayas tasminn arbhake kala-bhāṣiṇi. The youngest child, naturally... This is the attraction of family life. When a small baby smiles, immediately the father, mother and relatives become attracted. When the child begins to talk broken language, they enjoy. Unless this attraction is there, it is not possible to raise the child with affection. That is natural. That affection is even in the animals. You'll find a dog, even a tiger, everyone. That affection is there in the every... Monkey. I have seen it practically. In Kanpur I was staying in a room, and one monkey came with a child, and the child somehow or other entered into the window through the bars and the mother became mad. She thought, "My child is gone." She became mad. So somehow or other, again I pushed that monkey out of the bars, and immediately she embraced the child and took away. Just see. The affection is there.



Guest (1): Can I ask you one thing?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (1): I am informed that female monkey has got the highest affection for the baby, and when, after the death of the baby, she attaches the baby... Affection...



Prabhupāda: Yes. It dries up. When the dead body dries up.



Guest (1): ...to her and continues to carry on the dead body until the dead body falls away to that she goes on carrying the dead body on her bosom. This is so said about the female monkey.



Prabhupāda: So therefore in the society the parental affection is taken as very good qualification. But such qualification is visible even in the animals. So that is not a very good qualification. That is nature's law. Unless the mother and the child are not so affectionately connected, it is not possible for the child to grow up. That is nature's law. But that is not a qualification. Child simplicity... These things are very much eulogized in the society, child's simplicity, mother's affection. They are necessary. But they are not qualification to raise one to the spiritual platform. Just like this debauch, Ajāmila. His character is abominable, but he's still very much affectionate to the youngest child.



That is stated here. In one place his character is described, that he used to live by cheating, by stealing, by gambling. This was his life's profession. But still, he was very much affectionate to the child, the youngest child.

*sa baddha*-hṛdayas tasminn

*arbhake kala*-bhāṣiṇi

*nirīkṣamāṇas tal*-līlāṁ

mumude jaraṭho bhṛśam



*Jaraṭhaḥ vṛddhaḥ. So although he was very old, still he was enjoying the child's play, pastimes, the same thing. Just like Mahārāja Nanda and Yaśodā were enjoying the childish pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa, the same thing is pervertedly reflected in this material world. Father's affection, child's activities. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the same thing you'll find in the transcendental world. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot adjust. They think that if the same things are there in the spiritual world, then what is the difference between the spiritual and the material? That is the defect of Māyāvāda philosophy. But if they are seriously students of Vedānta*-sūtra... It is stated clearly in the very beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Supreme Absolute Truth is that from which everything emanates. So this affection between the child and the father or mother, if it is not there in the original Absolute Truth, wherefrom it comes? Do you follow? If the Absolute Truth is the source of everything, then whatever you will see here in this material world, they are simply reflection of the original. How you can defy(?)? How the Absolute Truth can be nirākāra, nirviśeṣa, without any variety, if the Absolute Truth is the source of everything. So these varieties of this material world, wherefrom it came? What is the answer?



Guest (2): From God.



Prabhupāda: Then how God can be nirākāra or impersonal?



*Guest (2): Nirākāra means all*-pervading.



*Prabhupāda: That is another thing. All-pervading we also accept. He is brahmajyoti. He is spread all over the creation. That is His nirākāra. Another meaning of nirākāra, that He hasn't got His form like us-sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]*-you may say that. Or nirākāra means where the varieties are not manifested. Just like you go to the sunshine. You don't find any rest. Your plane must fly on, fly on, fly on, unless you get a support in some planet. Either you go to the moon planet or remain in this planet, you must have a support. Otherwise the effulgence, the sun effulgence, the sunlight is not (indistinct). Similarly, brahmajyoti is like that, just like sunshine, but you cannot rest there. If you want rest, then you have to take shelter under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas: [SB 10.2.32] Those who are in the impersonal situation, they think themselves that they have become liberated. Exactly the same example. Suppose you are very high in the sunshine. Do you think, "Now I am liberated from worldly connection. I am far, far away, or high"? But unless you have shelter, you have to fly. This is crude example. Similarly, these impersonalists, they are in the liberated atmosphere, that's a fact. Brahman. He has realized that "I am not this matter. I am Brahman." And because he has no information in the brahmajyoti there are innumerable planets, he thinks that "This is all in all, this jyoti, brahmajyoti." That is his imperfect knowledge.



Guest (2): That is not the ultimate end.



Prabhupāda: No.



Guest (2): He was just in the...



*Prabhupāda: Ultimate end means you can remain. Go on flying, flying, flying. But that will exhaust your energy and you'll like to take shelter in any planet. And because they have no information of the Vaikuṇṭha planets, they again come to these material planets. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Because they have no rest, they become perturbed. Therefore this śloka says, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: [SB 10.2.32] "Because these impersonalists, although they are almost liberated, still, on account of their negligence to the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, without having shelter, their intelligence is not purified still." They are simply accepting something opposite to these imperfect varieties of this material world. They want to make the spiritual world without varieties because they have got a very bad experience of this material varieties. So their conception is just the opposite. Just the opposite. There must not be any varieties. Just like there are... They say Kṛṣṇa... Because they are convinced the Supreme Brahman is impersonal, brahmajyoti, so when brahmajyoti appears, He must take a form of this material world. Just like we are spiritual sparks, but we have taken this material form in this material world, so they take it also that God, when He comes, appears, He also accepts a material body. That is called Māyāvādī. But Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma me divyam: [Bg. 4.9] "When I come I do not accept a material body." Divyam, janma divyam. It is completely spiritual. And yo jānāti tattvataḥ: "Anyone who knows it, he becomes liberated." But these Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not know Him; *therefore they are not liberated. Do you follow? Yes. They are not liberated. Kṛṣṇa says, "One who knows perfectly well about Me, he becomes liberated." But they do not know. They accept Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Because they are rascals, they accept Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being. God can display Himself, manifest Himself, just exactly like ordinary human. Just like when He was displaying Himself as a child, a perfect child to mother Yaśodā, He would break everything if mother Yaśodā would not supply mākhana, you see, as if He is in need of mākhana. But these Māyāvādīs, they said, "Oh, here is... How He can be God?" Brahmā became bewildered: "How this boy can be the Supreme Lord? Let me test." So... Indra became bewildered. Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ, the Bhāgavatam says. Even big, big demigods, they become bewildered to understand. So when Kṛṣṇa was present, Indra, he wanted to test Him, and Brahmā wanted to test Him, whether He is actually God. So that is intelligence. If anyone declares... People are... Sometimes a so*-called incarnations are, they are declaring that "I am God." Then one should test whether actually God. That is intelligence. Simply by declaring, if somebody declares falsely that "I am God..." Just like this Ramakrishna. He declared that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa and Rāma." Is it not? You do not know?



Guest (2): I haven't got a basic idea, but he was taken in the world...



Prabhupāda: That is the... How he has taken? How he was taken? There is no, in the śāstras, any confirmation. He was accepted by Vivekananda. He said that "I am the same Rāma and Kṛṣṇa," and Vivekananda accepted. So anyone can say like that; anyone can accept. But that is the test? What is the proof? You can say that "I am the same Rāma and Kṛṣṇa," but because you say, I'll have to accept? So that is nonintelligent. So the Brahmā and Indra, they are not fools. When they saw that "A boy is in Vṛndāvana, and He is accepted as the Supreme Lord, and He is doing something like God. Let us test," so Brahmā took away all His cows and calves and playmates. And after a second, when he came, he saw the same cows, same calves, same boys were there. Kṛṣṇa has expanded. Although His cows were taken away, He immediately expanded Himself in so many cows and calves and boys. And when they returned home their mother could not recognize that they were the same or Kṛṣṇa has expanded. But their affection became very much acute for their children. These stories are mentioned in Kṛṣṇa. You have read it? Yes.



Haṁsadūta: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa expanded. So Brahmā understood that "It was my fault that I wanted to test my Lord." Then he came and surrendered, and there is a very nice stotra of Brahmā.



Guest (3): Stotra says Brahmā didn't know something about...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, even if he knew, but sometimes he become bewildered. Therefore it is..., Bhāgavata says that even the big, big demigods, they become bewildered. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāt tene brahma hṛdā muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. That māyā is so strong that they can bewilder a personality like Brahmā and Indra, and what to speak of us? Māyā is so strong. Similarly, Indra was also bewildered when He stopped Indra*-yajña. Kṛṣṇa, when He asked His father, "There is no need of Indra-yajña..." He is under the order of the Supreme Lord. He did not say..., Kṛṣṇa said to Nanda Mahārāja that "I am the Supreme Lord," but He said, "He is working under the Supreme Lord. He has to supply water. There is no need of yajña." In other words, Kṛṣṇa is not in favor of any type of demigod worship. No. In the Govardhana chapter He stressed: simply the Supreme Personality of Godhead should be satisfied. That is stated everywhere, in Bhagavad-gītā also, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. So Indra, when his yajña was stopped, so he tried to punish the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana by torrents of, incessant torrents of rain for seven days-havoc. The whole Vṛndāvana was to be drowned under water, and Kṛṣṇa immediately lifted the whole Govardhana Hill. And He stood seven days without taking any food and protected all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. Now God is displaying as God. When these things are there, the rascals will say, "Oh, these are all legends." When God displays Himself as God, the rascals take it as legend. Just see. They do not believe in the śāstras. They interpret in a different way. Is it not? Yes. And this is going on. And they are supposed to be... What is their interpretation about this Govardhana Hill? Do you know? Kṛṣṇa's lifting the Govardhana Hill, what, how they interpret it? I know, the Māyāvādīs, they do not accept. Or "Kṛṣṇa is ordinary human being." The Ārya-samājīs and others, they take it as legend. But the ācāryas, they do not take it as legend. Therefore we have to follow the ācāryas.



Woman devotee: Is it true when you said that the hill, there is cracks?



Prabhupāda: Why not?



Woman devotee: You said it cracked in the middle.



*Prabhupāda: So therefore Arjuna said, sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi mām [Bg. 10.14]. This is devotee, that "I accept everything, whatever You say." This is devotee, not that I make some amendment and then I accept. And this is nonsense. You cannot... This is called ardha*-kukkuṭī-nyāya. [Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176] Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya means one man was keeping a hen and it was delivering every day a golden egg. So the man thought, "It is very profitable, but it is expensive to feed this hen. Better cut the head so I shall save the expenditure of feeing her, and I'll get the eggs without any charge." So these rascals, they take, accept śāstras like that. "Oh, this is not... That is very expensive. Cut this portion." And when Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who sees Me in everyone," "Oh, that is very palatable. That is very palatable." And when Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up everything. You surrender...," "Oh, that is not palatable." And this is ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya. I accept things which are very favorable to my understanding, and other things I reject. This is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya. So people accept śāstras in that way, the Māyāvādīs.



*Guest (3): But one who is self*-realized, he interprets them out, the ślokas or...



Prabhupāda: There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says. In the Bhāgavata it is said that He lifted the mountain just like a child snatch one flower or the..., what is called? Yes. Mushroom. Yes. So easily. They do not believe.



Guest (3): No, but in Bhāgavata there are many ślokas interpreted by many teachers and...



Prabhupāda: Those who believe in Bhāgavata, they do not interpret. Those who do not believe in Bhāgavata, they interpret.



Guest (3): But its meaning has to be understood.



*Prabhupāda: Meaning is clear. There is nothing to be understood. But the rascals, they draw their own meaning. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā. What is the difficulty to understand this:



*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsava

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



What is the difficulty to understand Kurukṣetra is a religious place, acknowledged by the *Vedas*, and it is going on still? Why do they interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this body"? Is it not rascal? Why there is interpretation when you understand a thing very clearly? Eh?



Guest (3): Because Kurukṣetra is to be taken as a particular place.



*Prabhupāda: Not taken. It is still there. Why do you interpret that this is body? Is it not rascaldom? No devotee, no ācārya has done this, but these modern so*-called scholars and leaders, they have done it. Are they not rascals? What do you think? Eh?



Guest (3): No, rascals... My representative (?) orders that "The people listen to me..."



Prabhupāda: So, why they should say? Now, you are a lawyer.



Guest (3): We do not know (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: And why do they...? What is the difficulty? Dharma*-kṣetra kuru-kṣetra, is that a very difficult Sanskrit? Now, there is no question. Even in... If you do not understand Sanskrit, what is the difficulty to understand dharma-kṣetra? Is it not a Hindi word? Kurukṣetra is a name of place. So what is the difficulty? Why do you interpret that Kurukṣetra means this body? This rascaldom has killed the whole spiritual atmosphere of India. They are responsible, these rascal politicians, the rascal scholars, so-called. Actually if we want good of the people, these rascals should be disclosed and people should come back. We should... Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Why we should interpret? You know, you, as a lawyer. When there is legal point, if it is not clear, one lawyer is trying to extract some meaning and the other lawyer is extract... It is... After all, the judges (indistinct) give the judgment. So this interpretation between the two lawyers are there when the subject matter is not very clear. Is it not?



Guest (3): ...amongst the judges now they have passed a...



*Prabhupāda: But judges are not perfect, and the law is also not perfect. But I am simply speaking of the procedure. The law is not perfect because it is man*-made, and judges, because he is human, he is also not perfect. So that imperfectness you must find. But I am speaking of the procedure. You have to speak on the lawbooks. You cannot... In the law court you cannot speak beyond the lawbooks. And the lawbooks... Suppose one section is not very clear. You fight: "This should be interpreted like this. This should be interpreted..." I am taking that procedure. But when it is clear, do you interpret?



Guest (3): It is not possible.



*Prabhupāda: That's not possible. Similarly, Bhagavad*-gītā, it is clear, dharma-kṣetra kuru-kṣetra. Why these rascals say that Kurukṣetra means body?



Guest (3): Even according to the rules of interpretation, in the books it is stated, "When the words are clear, you should..."



Prabhupāda: That is eternally fact.



Guest (3): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.



Guest (3): If the language is absolutely clear, the language should be interpreted... (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So when the language is clear it is... Just like anything you take, all these Vedic literatures, simply by interpretation they have played havoc. Now, this Vedānta*-sūtra, Vedānta, is accepted as the supreme authority of Vedic literature. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the sutra, that janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The Absolute Truth must be the original source of everything." There is no question of interpretation. This is the clear meaning. Janmādi. Janma means birth and... Janma, sthiti and laya. There are three words in this material world. The things come out, just like this body has come out from the womb of my mother. It stays for some time, it grows, it gives some by-products, then it becomes old and again vanishes. So therefore janmādy asya: [SB 1.1.1] "Beginning from birth up to the annihilation, everything is emanation from the Absolute Truth." So is not that very clear? Absolute Truth must be that which is the source of everything and reservoir of everything and who is maintaining everything. That is the meaning of... Now, Bhāgavata, because it is interpretation of the Vedānta-sūtra, it begins from that sutra, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Now, how that janmādy asya yataḥ? It is explained, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. If the original source... How the characteristics of the original source should be? The original source must be cognizant indirectly and directly of everything. The original Absolute Truth should be cognizant, abhijñaḥ. If He is the source of everything, then He must be cognizant of everything, either directly or indirectly. Just like for example this body is my product. I am spiritual spark. This spiritual spark, as soon as takes shelter into the womb of a woman, it develops this body. The spiritual spark has that power, develops body. So I am a spirit soul, I have developed this body. That means I am a spiritual spark, which is source of this body, all mechanisms. And similarly, the whole creation, it is..., there is supreme spirit. The whole creation, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So He knows everything because He is perfect. But I do not know. Although it is by my energy this body is produced. I do not know how these veins are created, how these bones are created. I do not know. Therefore I am not God. I do not know... I say "my body," but actually this body has developed, me, as spirit soul, but I do not know how many hairs are there on my head and how it is growing. But He knows. That is a characteristic of the Absolute Truth. He must be knowing everything, and that is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vedahaṁ samatītāni: [Bg. 7.26] "I know everything in the past. I know what will happen in the future. I know everything." That is God.



*When Arjuna was asked to Kṛṣṇa that "How can I accept that You taught this philosophy to sun-god? Because You are my contemporary. We are born practically on the same date." So He replied, "Yes. Both you and Me, we took many, many births. But you have forgotten. I know everything." And that is God. That is God. Abhijñaḥ. God must be cognizant of everything. And I do not know everything, and still, I claim I am God and people accept. How rascal. The Bhāgavata explains that the Absolute Truth is cognizant of everything, abhijñaḥ. "So how His knowledge is so perfect?"*-the next question, because we become cognizant by taking knowledge or accepting knowledge from spiritual master. But how he has become so cognizant? The answer is svarāṭ, fully independent. He hasn't got to learn... [break] But He is God without taking knowledge from anybody. That is real God. Svarāṭ. In this way Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam has explained the Vedānta-sūtras, that Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the right explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. Bhāṣyāyāṁ brahma-sūtrānām. The Brahma-sūtra means Vedānta-sūtra. And the real commentary and explanation is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, of Vedānta. But these Vedantists, so-called Vedantists, they do not read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Even read, they make a different interpretation, because to make them popular they have to go through Bhāgavata sometimes. I see Akṣajānanda also tries to explain. But they explain in their own way. Just like "This Kurukṣetra, this body, and this means..." I, in a... Long ago in Bombay this Akṣajānanda explaining one śloka. I just forget, but I remember his interpretation, that "When I am satisfied, God is satisfied." He explained like that. And he is passing on as a great scholar and great sannyāsa. He said like that: "When I am satisfied, God is satisfied-because I am God." We say, "When God is satisfied, then I am satisfied." If you say that "When the finger is satisfied, the whole body is satisfied," it is possible?

Guest (4): No.



Prabhupāda: So in this way, misinterpretation, malinterpretation, and people are gliding down to abominable condition of this material life. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a protest against all this nonsense. And therefore we, sometimes we are unpopular. But we don't care for that. Popular or unpopular, we must go on with our business. What do you think?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Guest (5): Do you mean one has to...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (5): Unpopularity also means you are creating something.



Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) That is the reaction.



Guest (5): Here because (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: So therefore so quickly we have become popular in the foreign countries. Even the priestly class, the Christian priestly class, they have recognized that "We are preaching about God, Bible; we could not create such nice boys and girls. And all these young boys, they were Christians and they are attracted, attached to Swami, and they are so nice." They can appreciate that their character and their behavior, everything is so godly. They are astonished.



Guest (5): (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: So therefore the Christian priests, they do not go against us. They appreciate. One Christian priest was talking on plane when I was going to Hawaii. He was so much appreciating my students. So at heart, they are appreciating. The government is appreciating, the public is appreciating. Many fathers come and say, "Oh, Swamijī, we are so fortunate that you have come. You have saved our sons and daughters." And they fall flat to offer me obeisances, although he is not my disciple. And those are directly father and mother, oh, they come to congratulate me in any way because they understand that "Here Swamijī is giving our sons and daughters spiritual life." They hope. They were hopeless. They were confused. So that is not my credit. I am simply presenting the right thing without..., Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, without malinterpretation, spoiling time and energy. Everywhere I say like that, that "I have no credit, but...," because the only credit is that I do not adulterate. Now here, you see, the Bhāgavata says that naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because this man, this brāhmaṇa boy, Ajamila, in his boyhood... He became attached to the prostitute when he was about twenty years old, young man, and he lost his brahminical qualification. Naṣṭa-sadācāro. But the Bhāgavata says... Now, at the present moment, there are so many so-called brāhmaṇas. They have no sadācāra. Still they are passing as brāhmaṇa. Illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating-everything is there, but he is a brāhmaṇa. Is it not?



Guest (5): Eighty percent. Accepted by birth.



*Prabhupāda: But here Bhāgavata says, naṣṭa-sadācāra. As soon as... How? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ: "Because he is attached with a prostitute, he has lost all his qualifications." At the present moment to become attached to a prostitute is no fault. The society accepts: "Oh, that's all... Young man goes to that." Does not mind. But he does not know that this association will make him fall down to the lowest stage of human life. And that is stated next, that he used to live on these principles-beg, borrow, steal and gambling*-and he was degraded. And how he was degraded? That will be explained. So people do not take care of their śāstras. They make their own interpretation and therefore India's position is so fallen. They are guided. The great ṛṣis and great sages, they have given them guidance. Vyāsadeva has given guidance. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitā. It is stated. "People are rascals, fools. In order to teach them nicely, this highest learned personality, Vyāsadeva, created the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." Lokasya ajānataḥ. Ajānataḥ means rascals who has no knowledge.



anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

*bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasyājānato vidvāṁś

*cakre sātvata*-saṁhitā

[SB 1.7.6]



*Whatever abominable characteristics we have developed, if we want to counteract it, we have to take to bhakti-yoga only. Anartha. Anartha. We have developed so many anartha. We don't require it, but we have developed all these symptoms. So anartha upaśamam. So if you want to cut down these anarthas, then bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje*-you have to accept this bhakti-yoga principle to the adhoksaja. Lokasya ajānato: "These rascal men, they do not know it." Therefore vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitā: "The most learned Vyāsadeva compiled this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." And they do not take care of Bhāgavata. They do not take care of Bhagavad-gītā. They take care of a book written by some rascal leaders. That's all. The aim of that book is to kill Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So how you can improve? It is not possible. If they actually want improvement, not only this country or that country, whole world to world, one has to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement; *otherwise it is doomed. So we are giving the best service to the human society*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You came yesterday? No. This gentleman? Yes? No, you are coming first? So that boy, he was to immediately offer his service to join us. "We can join you if you flatter me. Whatever I know, if you accept, that's all, then I can. And if you say something against my conviction, oh, then I am not going to join." But here the process is, first is, you first surrender. Whatever you know, nonsense, you give it up. First of all become blank slate. So I was told by some authority, a very responsible man, that in Germany there are musical institution. So when a student who goes there who knows something about musical art, he is charged more. Is it a fact? He is charged more. He is charged more because extra endeavor has to be done to make him forget what nonsense he has learned. Because this learning is all nonsense, so one has to take... Just like so many people come. I have to talk so many hours to forget, to make him forget what nonsense he has learned. So he should be charged more, this student. And one who comes as blank slate... They have accepted Kṛṣṇa consciousness because they are blank slates. And in India they think that they have learned so many things. Yes. They have learned from Radhakrishnan, they have learned from Aurobindo, they have learned from Vivekananda, the Ramakrishna, this, that, so many nonsense-except Kṛṣṇa. They have learned everything from so many nonsense except Kṛṣṇa. Now here there is so much advertisement of Ramakrishna... Just see these American boys, they do not know even the name of Ramakrishna in America.



Guest (5): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Huh? But ask them. They do not know even. He might have gone to Chicago. That's all right. But what is his influence there? But here it is advertised, "Oh, Ramakrishna went to America. Vivekananda went to..."



Devotee: There was no temple like that in Chicago, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee: There was not temple like that in Chicago.



Prabhupāda: No.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: They never heard of the Ramakrishna. And here... Just like homeopathics. They advertise, "American homeopathics." But there is not a single shop of homeopathic medicine in America, not a single shop. And this is going on. All these bogus homeopathic practitioners, they write, "American homeopathic medicine," and so on, so on. They do not allow this homeopathic medicine as bona fide practice. They are not so foolish that you will give water and it will be accepted as medicine. There you cannot ask even any medicine directly from the drug shop without doctor's prescription. If you go, offering to a medical drug shop, and "Give me this medicine," no, he'll not do so. "Bring doctor's prescription." That is law.



Guest (5): He can't do that.



Prabhupāda: Eh? No, you cannot directly take supply of the medicine without doctor's prescription. So, so many things are going on, bogus.



Yamunā: (indistinct) ...you'll find Americans...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Even in my absence many centers are developing. When I came back to India this time... There were thirty*-five or thirty-two centers. Now it is forty-two.



Guest (5): (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. They are increasing. Here, India difficulty*-we have to make them forget all nonsense he has learned. That is the difficulty. And here, there in America I got all nice blank slates, and whatever I say they accepted, and improvement is immediately there. And here the people are coming to test me, to talk with me nonsense and waste my time.



Guest (6): The ones who have come here, they are not aware of this morning... (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: But they are not genuine. That is the difficulty. They want... They come, and as soon as they say, "Oh, Swamijī is speaking something against our conviction," they reject that.



Guest (6): But are they aware that...?



Prabhupāda: No, even they are aware, so many came and they are not coming. Because the nonsense was stopped, they are, that "Oh, Swamijī is..." They have not come. They want that whatever nonsense they have learned, I have to confirm: "Yes, it is right." Just like the Ramakrishna Mission says, "Whatever you do, it is all right," I have to say that. Then I am good. And as soon as I say, "You are wrong, nonsense, rascal. You do not know anything..." (laughter) Satyaṁ bruyāt priyaṁ bruyāt mā bruyāt satyam apriyam. You tell truth, but it must be very palatable. If you say truth unpalatable, then you will create enemies. But how can I do so in the spiritual knowledge?



Guest (7): In the Bhāgavata (indistinct). I get up at four in the morning (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: There is a proverb that "If you go to a prostitute, go in the morning. (laughter) Not at night." In the morning you will see her real beauty. Give some prasādam to the... All right. [break] Prasādam should be taken in any condition. This dhoop is very nice, though.



Guest (8): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Where is...? What is the brand of this dhoop? It is locally manufactured? No.



Guest (8): No, no.



Prabhupāda: Where is?



Guest (8): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good. No, it is very good. So that discussion we shall have privately? All right. So let us go to the other room. (end)





750706SB.CHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.22

-

Chicago, July 6, 1975



Nitāi: "That fallen brāhmaṇa of the name Ajāmila was giving trouble to all other men by forcibly arresting them, cheating them by gambling with weighted dice, or by directly plundering someone. Thus he used to earn his livelihood to maintain his family by giving trouble and pain to others."



Prabhupāda:



*bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair

garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ

bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir

yātayām āsa dehinaḥ

[SB 6.1.22]



*Bibhrat. Bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir yātayām āsa dehinaḥ. Bibhrat, we have to maintain our body. This is called bibhrat. That is necessary. We have got this body in this material world. This is not spiritual world. In the spiritual world there is no necessity of maintaining the body. The body is spiritual. As we have got here in this material world, to maintain this body I require to eat, I require to sleep, I require to satisfy my sense, and I require to defend*-the four necessities... Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. And spiritual body means these four kinds of bodily demands, nil, no more. That is spiritual life. That means no eating, no sleeping, no sex, and no defense. The six Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, they practiced it. (sic:) Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. They conquered over sleeping, eating, mating, and defending. Nidrā means sleeping, āhāra means eating, vihāra means sex. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. Conquered.



*So this is the advancement of spiritual life. When we conquer over these things, that means we have come to the spiritual platform. So, so long we have got this material body, it is not possible, but try to minimize. Try to minimize. Therefore Śrīla Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī... He was very rich man's son. His father's income, five hundred years, ago was twelve hundred thousand rupees. So now, you know, the exchange is... What is the exchange today? It is at least five hundred times increased. Anyway, that Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, when left home... His father and uncle was very strictly observing. He was given very nice beautiful wife and very beautiful house. But he was not very much satisfied. He wanted to join Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So his father was very strictly keeping guard, that "This boy may not go out." Just like some of your parents do. (laughter) So... But this cannot be checked. So Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, after all, by some tricks-after all, he was very intelligent, rich man's son*-he went away to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And his mother was advising to his father that "Why don't you handcuff this boy?" So his father was saying that "I have already handcuffed him with such beautiful wife and such beautiful residence, and he has opened this. Now what this material handcuff will do?" So anyway, he left father's home and approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He was in Jagannātha Purī, and he was intrusted to Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's secretary, to take care of him.

*So he was practicing this thing, how to conquer over eating, sleeping, mating, and defense. It is a long story. Perhaps one who has read Caitanya*-caritāmṛta... So at last, when he was living at Rādhā-kuṇḍa, he was taking every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all. Nothing else. So it is possible. When he left home, his father sent four men, and with arrangement that he would get four hundred rupees. In those days four hundred rupees meant at least twenty times. What is the four hundred rupees, twenty times?

Devotee: Eight thousand.



Prabhupāda: Eight thousand rupees for his personal expenditure. So he was utilizing that money by inviting sannyāsīs of Jagannātha Purī. There were many sannyāsīs. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also being invited. So after a few days, there was no invitation. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired His secretary that "Why Raghunātha does not invite?" So he replied that "He refused to take his father's contribution." So Caitanya, "Oh, it is very nice." It is not that "Money will come from home, and I shall become a renounced order of life." No. He understood that "I have left my home. Why shall I take money from my father?" He refused.



*So in this way Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, one of the six Gosvāmīs, very important devotee, he used to live. He used to eat every alternate day, not daily. One day starving, and the next day, a little butter. But he was observing his regulative principles, taking thrice daily bath and offering daṇḍavat, what is called? Counting, numerical. Just like we count twenty*-five rounds minimum, so Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was also chanting by counting. Similarly, he was offering daṇḍavat. You offer daṇḍavat, the same way. That is also counting. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka, keeping a strength, a numerical strength, just like we are advised at least sixteen rounds. So these things were going on. Not that because he was taking little butter alternate day, he lost his strength. No. The strength was all right. So the fasting means if you don't feel weak, then you fast. Not that you imitate Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. That is not possible in the beginning. But it is possible if you practice, if you practice. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau **. So everything is possible. But that is advanced spiritual life. It is no use imitating a higher authority, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Just like he was chanting not sixteen rounds, but 164 rounds. So that is not possible. Gradually, śanaiḥ śanaiḥ, gradually, we have to practice.

*So, so long we are in this material world, not in the spiritual world, still we have to live very honestly. Then there is hope for raising oneself to the spiritual platform. So here... Yesterday we have discussed, ajāmilaḥ nāmnā kaścid dvijaḥ. Dvija, a brāhmaṇa. Dvija is not still brāhmaṇa. Dvija means he is initiated, dvija, means second birth. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. By reformatory method one is initiated for the second time or second birth. Then he is educated by the Vedic literature. Just like we have got so many books. After initiation, one become bona fide student to study all these Vedic literatures. Then he become vipra. That is brahminical stage. Veda*-pāṭhād bhaved vipraḥ. And not only simply reading, but when he realizes what is Brahman, then he is brāhmaṇa. Not easy, the stages. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipro brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. This Brahman is impersonal Brahman, and still, you have to go above. When... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti [SB 1.2.11]. In the beginning, Brahman realization, impersonal. Then, as you gradually increase, then Paramātmā realization. That is meditation. That is meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. The yogis, by meditation, they observe the Supreme Personality of Godhead Viṣṇu within the heart. That is yoga system perfection. And above that, there is personal realization, Bhagavān. So when you realize the Personality of Godhead, then you become a Vaiṣṇava. This is gradual steps.

*So this dvija, as soon as he contacted a prostitute... Prostitute, unchaste, puṁścalī. Another name is puṁścalī. Those who are, I mean to say, moved by another person, they are called puṁścalī. They become captivated by another person. So they, another name is prostitute. So this dvija, although he was initiated to make further progress to become brāhmaṇa and Vaiṣṇava, in the middle, he contacted one prostitute. Young man, he became a victim. Therefore kaścid dāsī*-patiḥ, contacted and remained as husband, wife, or friend. So by the contact of this prostitute, the result was naṣṭa-sadācāra, he became lost of all gentle activities. Naṣṭa-sadācāra. Sadācāra means... Sat means gentle, and ācāra means behavior, gentleman's behavior. What is that gentleman's behavior? That we teach, that "You don't take meat, don't have illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication, rise early in the morning, take bath, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, attend maṅgala-ārātrika." These are called sadācāra. So on account of his contact with this prostitute, although he was born in a brāhmaṇa family and he was reformed up to the point of initiation, he fell a victim. And as soon as he fell victim to that prostitute, naṣṭa-sadācāra. Dāsyāḥ saṁ... Why sadācāra, why he should lose? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he is associating with this prostitute, therefore the next sequence is that he should be bereft of all gentle behavior.

*Therefore to create a first-class man, it requires great endeavor. It is not that you go to a school, colleges, and learn and smoke and do all nonsense, and you become elevated. It is a fourth-class, fifth-class... The modern educational system is producing not only fourth... Fourth class is also gentle, fifth-class, sixth-class. Fifth-class, sixth-class... The education means... What is the education? What is the symptom of education? That is described by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. The first educational symptom is that except one's own wife, any woman is mother. This is the first symptom of education. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. And other's property and money is just like garbage in the... Not very many years, say, about hundred years ago... You have heard the name, the Kashmir state. The Kashmir state was so strict, if somebody had stolen others' property and it is proved, the thief's hands will be cut off. Still, I think, in Arabia there is. This is a strict law. So if some golden ornament is lying on the street, out of this fear-and people were simple at the time*-they will not touch. Exactly like garbage they will not touch. It was lying on the street. The law was that nobody should touch. If some golden ornament is there, the actual proprietor, he will come and pick it up. You do not require to assist him also, taking, "I shall..." No, you cannot touch. If you touch, your hands will be cut off. So if one learns this habit, that others' property, others' money is just like garbage, nobody touches... Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. And one who thinks like himself sarva-bhū..., all living entities. What is that? If I prick you, then you feel some pain, so why should you prick others? This is called ātmavat. What you feel yourself... If somebody cuts your throat, do you feel very happy? No. Then why should you cut throat of others, other animals or human beings? So these three things, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said that this is, if one has learned these three things, he is learned. Not that he has got a university degrees, no. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu.

So this is gentleman; *this is educated, culture. So this man, Ajāmila, as soon as he became fallen down from the sadācāra, gentleman's behavior, the next stage is this, bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. One must earn his livelihood. But he has fallen down to the sixth grade. First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or lower than that, everyone must have his means of livelihood. So what is the means of livelihood of the first-class man? That is said, paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. First-class man means brahminical class. Their occupational duty is first of all he must become a very learned scholar in the Vedic literature. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipraḥ. He must become a learned scholar. And after becoming a scholar, it is not that that he will enjoy himself the knowledge. No. He will distribute the knowledge. This is one, that first-class man, or the brāhmaṇa, first of all he must become a learned scholar... If he is not scholar, what he will, nonsense he will teach? So the first position is that he must become a learned scholar. And the next business is to teach others, to make disciple. Formerly even fifty year or sixty years ago in India a brāhmaṇa would not accept anyone's service. Because whatever he has knowledge, he would sit down anywhere, underneath a tree or in the corridor of somebody, and he will invite the village small children, and they will go, and he will teach little grammar, little mathematics, gradually. And the children will bring from their father and mother. Somebody will bring rice. Somebody will bring ḍāl. Somebody will bring something. So he had no necessity of making any contract, that "You give me so many dollars. Then I shall teach you." No. Free. Free education. In this way India was free education. So paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana.

*Then next business is brāhmaṇa should be a devotee, worshiping Deity, either Viṣṇu or sometimes other demigod. So yajana-yājana. He will personally do it, and he will teach others how to worship. Paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana. And his livelihood*-by voluntary contribution; *whatever people will give, that's all right. People used to give brāhmaṇa. So paṭhana*-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa would receive... People were very honest, that "This man is teaching our children. He does not charge. This man is teaching me how to worship, how to become well behaved." So they have no scarcity, enough. So he would simply use as much as he required; *balance he will give in charity. Not that keep in stock for tomorrow. No. That is not brāhmaṇa's business. Whatever is come today, I use it for my necessities of life, and balance, I give to the poor or somebody else, somebody else, somebody..., or make some festival. So paṭhana*-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. So we require some income for our maintenance. So this was the brāhmaṇa's business. There is no question of doing some business or making some profession or going to the office or going to the factory. This is not brāhmaṇa's business.

*Then kṣatriya, next, second*-class man. So what is his livelihood? His livelihood: to take tax. The kṣatriyas were entrusted certain villages, that "You look after these villages, that the people are becoming well behaved." So kṣatriya's business was to see whether brāhmaṇa is actually acting as brāhmaṇa, a kṣatriya actually acting as kṣatriya. This was the ruler's business to see. And to see that nobody is unemployed, nobody is a devil's workshop. Because if you have no business, no occupation, then your brain will plan something. This plan is cauryam and cheating. They had no opportunity to plan all these things. So kṣatriya's income is to take some tax. What is that tax? Not in money. But people are engaged in agricultural work, so whatever he has produced, he gives twenty-five percent to the ruler. That's all. That includes income tax, this tax, that tax. No more tax. "Take. Whatever I have got, you take twenty-five percent." So this is kṣatriya's occupation, second class.

*And the third class, vaiśya. Vaiśya means produce food grain, kṛṣi, agriculture, not produce food in the slaughterhouse. No. Slaughterhouse, even the sixth-class, seventh-class men... They did not know how to produce food, how to live. That means the aborigines in the jungle. They were hunting one animal, then eating, not that civilized nation, organized slaughterhouse. Oh, how horrible it is. If you want to eat an animal, then you go to the jungle, kill one animal, and eat. The government is not going to maintain a slaughterhouse for you. You see? This is the civilization. So our eatables should be food grains-kṛṣi-go-rakṣya*-and milk. Kṛṣi means by agriculture process you can produce fruits, flower, vegetables, then rice, wheat, and pulses, and you have got milk. Then where is your want, scarcity? This is civilization. Meat-eating is meant for the sixth-class, seventh-class men who does not know, who remain naked, and they can neither produce food neither cloth in the jungle. It is for them. They also were not very much expert to maintain a slaughterhouse. When you need, you can kill one lower animal, not cow. The cow is not available in the jungle. You can have some deer or some boar. So these unimportant animals were killed by them. That is the sixth class, not the first class, second class, third class, fourth class. No. And the fourth-class man who could not utilize his brain as first class, second class, third class, then he becomes fourth class-his business: to help, worker, these higher three classes.

*So in this way everyone must have his means of livelihood. And I have already described that this is the way of livelihood. First*-class man, this is livelihood. Second-class man, this is livelihood. And third-class man, this is livelihood. Fourth-class man... And below the fourth-class man, means fifth-class, the fifth-class man, the jungle man, by hunting, like that. But this class of man, that they do not accept any of these livelihood means, but they cheat you, cheat you. That we will find now, so many cheaters in big, big cities, and so many pickpockets, so many thieves, rogues, and now the present society is perplexed, "Crime, Why and What to Do?" You are maintaining sixth-class, seventh-class men. Your education is meant for that. Why you are afraid of crimes now? This is the result. Now enjoy the result. As you reap so you..., as you sow, so you reap. Therefore this movement is specially meant for making first-class, second-class men at least. Or even third class, fourth class. But what is this? You are producing sixth-class, seventh-class, tenth-class men, and you expect that there will be no crime, people will be happy, it will be peaceful? That is not possible. If you want to be happy, peaceful, then you must take this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and try to create at least a group of men first class. Just like we are doing that. People will see their behavior, their character, their mode of life, and at least they will be attracted.

*So this man, Ajāmila, on account of his association with a prostitute... That is illicit sex. Sex means with married wife. That's all. So this is the first falldown. Then he lost his all gentle behavior, and then he came to this platform, bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. So as soon as one become fallen down from the standard of gentle life, they must take to this profession. There is no other alternative. You cannot check it. This is natural falldown, one after another. So, bandy-akṣaiḥ... What time up to? Up to 7:30? It is finished. Eh?

Brahmānanda: The curtain closes in ten minutes.



*Prabhupāda: Anyway, so bandī. Bandī means now especially in the United States, nobody goes out at night. No gentleman goes out at night. In our Brooklyn temple nobody goes out at night. Just see. America is so advanced in civilization, and the result is that one cannot go on a street at night. In India it is so poverty*-stricken. Still, even in villages, they are freely moving, man, woman, at dead of night. They know there is no danger. Still, although they are so poverty-stricken now... You will be surprised that in 1942 there was an artificial famine created by the government. People suffered starvation, and poor men, they died out of starvation. But there was no report of stealing. No report. One American gentleman went there, "If this is the condition in our country, there would have been revolution. And these people do not even steal others' properties, dying starvation." Lonely man is going. He will arrest him, "Give me whatever you have got. Otherwise I will kill you." So this is bandī.



*And next business was gambling, dice playing, bandy*-akṣaiḥ. Everything was there. It was... Of course, these historical incidences, and, some thousands and thousands of years ago happened. But because it is material world, these things were there at that time also. Now it has increased. Kali-yuga means it has increased. The same thieves, cheater, everything were there at that time. It was rare incidences. But now it has become daily affair due to the Kali-yuga. So his business was kaitavaiḥ. Kaitavaiḥ means cheating. Cheating. Now what kind of cheating? The cheaters will round, surround one man, and he says, "Have you seen some gold lump falling down? I have seen. One is lost." Then another man will come, "Sir, I have got this gold lump. If you pay me something, I will give you." But that is not gold, actually, but he creates a situation that "Somebody lost his gold lump. Now he has got. He wants to sell me. All right, I give you ten rupees. Give me." (laughter) This is called kaitavaiḥ. I know some things. (laughter) So bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ, and then direct stealing.

*So these kind of profession is garhitām, abominable. This is not human civilization. But this has become a common thing. Garhitāṁ vṛttim. Vṛttim means occupation. So if you become first*-class man, you have occupation, that paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana. If you are second-class man, you have got your occupation. If you are third-class man, the kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. If you are fourth-class man, then serve other. If you are fifth-class man, then go to the jungle and hunt some animal and eat. Then these persons, they, cheating, stealing, these are the occupation of the tenth class, eighth class, like that. This is not honest. So if you produce such tenth-class and eighth-class and seventh-class men, then how you can expect without crime in the society? That is not possible. So we should know that this is the defect of civilization, that by education, by practice, by examples we are simply creating eighth-class, tenth-class of men, so there cannot be any peace. Therefore the human society must take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and teach people at least how to become second class, third class, if not first class. But there must be first-class men, second-class men. Then everything, social affair, political affair, will go very smoothly, without any trouble. Otherwise you have to meet with this class of profession, stealing, cheating, and so on.

Thank you very much. (end)



760522S2.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.22

-

Honolulu, May 22, 1976



Prabhupāda: (leads chanting, etc.)



*bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair

garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ

bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir

yātayām āsa dehinaḥ

[SB 6.1.22]



*So in this way, Ajāmila, he practiced this unfair way of livelihood, bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. So vṛtti means livelihood. If one adopts abominable livelihood, there is no, I mean to say, hope of spiritual advancement. Finished. Because we have learned from Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna says Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "Kṛṣṇa, You are the Supreme Brahman," paraṁ dhāma, "the supreme resort to everything," and pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, "and the supreme pure." So nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa if he is impure. That is not possible. In the Bhagavad-gītā here it is said yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpam: one who is free from all contamination of sinful activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmāṇām: simply engaged in pious activities. Te, such persons, dvanda-moha-nirmuktā, nirmuktā, without any doubt and duality, bhajante māṁ dṛdha-vratāḥ, with fixed-up mind we can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So this Ajāmila, he learned all this nonsense, abominable way of livelihood, therefore his example is there: how he was downtrodden and fallen, still by the grace of Nārāyaṇa, how he was elevated. That is the history which is Sūta Goswami is citing. How Kṛṣṇa consciousness is powerful, that is the motive of narrating Ajāmila uddha, delivering Ajāmila.



*So here it is said, evaṁ nivasatas tasya lālayānasya tat*-sutān. Everyone is tat-sutān, with children. Even one big economics professor, Professor Marshall, he says... I was student of economics, the Marshall book. He says that economic development begins out of family affection, family affection. That is the basis. That was his understanding, that nobody would work for livelihood unless he is attached in family. That is his proposition. So here he was attached to the family. Lālayānasya tat-sutān. Atha gṛhas kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair. Material bondage is that family affection. It is not that one has to give up this procedure. No. That is not. The Vedic civilization is so nice that you accept the platform which is suitable. The brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa... The spiritual... These are called āśrama. Āśrama means where spiritual culture is practiced. That is called āśrama. Perhaps you know this āśrama word. Āśrama means it is not a place for sense gratification; it is a place for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is āśrama.

*So there are four āśramas for your spiritual cultivation: brahmacārī, gṛhastha... Gṛhastha is also āśrama, family. That is also āśrama. If the gṛhastha life is meant for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is all right. This is āśrama. Gṛhastha-āśrama. Then retired life, vānaprastha. Although gṛhastha-āśrama is allowed, but not the for all the time that up to the death. No. That is not allowed after fiftieth year. Twenty*-five years, to fifty year, fiftieth year the young man's spirit is there, the sex power is strong, so this gṛhastha-āśrama is a concession for satisfying sex, that's all. But not more than fifty years. Then you must give up. That is the Vedic civilization. We accept gṛhastha-āśrama. Up to twenty-fifth year you remain a brahmacārī, learn from guru how to become brahmacārī, gurukula. Brahmācāri gurukule vasan dānta: how to practice self control, sense control. A brahmacārī is forbidden to see even young girl, even the spiritual master's wife is young. Sometimes spiritual master's wife is considered as mother. Ādau mātā guru-patni. There are seven mothers. So real mother, ādau mātā, guru-patni, the spiritual master's wife, she is also mother. Ādau mātā guru-patni brāhmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa is mother. Actually every woman is mother. That is moral instruction. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Anyone, any woman who is not your wife, except your wife, everyone, every woman is to be considered as mother. This is education. And that (indistinct) of education is defined by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, that who is paṇḍita, learned.

*So he does not say that one who has passed M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C. No, he doesn't say that. He says any person who has learned to see like this. What is that? Mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu. Everyone's wife should be considered, para-dāra, para means other's wife, mātṛvat, mother. Therefore the Vedic system is when we address another woman, "Mother." No other address. "Mother, can I do this? Would you like this?" The address should be "mother." Practice, this is practice. A brahmacārī is practiced. He goes to every householder's wife, "Mother, give me some..." Just like this child, if he is taught from the very beginning of his life that "Address all woman as mother," that training and intermingling with anyone, that is a different way. That is brahmacārī.

*So brahmacārī is taught that how he should behave in society, what is the aim of life. That is brahmacārī. Mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. And other's property just like garbage. Nobody goes... But that I have seen nowadays garbage is also tackled(?). I have seen in Hong Kong one woman is finding out something valuable from the garbage. This is Kali-yuga. It is untouchable, but still people are trying to get something from the garbage. So downtrodden, this Kali-yuga. So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. All other living entities think like yourself. That means your pains and pleasure that you feel, you should take others pains and pleasure. Not that you protect yourself from all danger and you cut the throat of the poor animals on the plea that it has no soul. This is not education. This is education, that whether the animal has soul or not soul, we shall consider later on. But when knife is on my throat I cry, and he also cries. Why shall I say that it has no soul and let me kill it? So that means he does not know how to see other living entity like himself. Buddha philosophy is based on this, that whatever you feel pain you should not inflict to others. This is education. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat.

So this is moral education, and in the śāstra it is also said that there are seven mothers:

*ādau mātā guru*-patni

*brāhmaṇi rāja*-patnikā

dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī

saptaitā mātaraḥ



*Real mother and guru*-patni, the wife of spiritual master or teacher. Ādau mātā guru-patni, brāhmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa, and rāja-patnikā, the queen, she is also mother, rāja. Dhenu, cow. Dhenu, dhātrī, nurse. Dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī, as well as the earth. Earth is mother because she is giving us so many things, fruits, flowers, grains for our eating. Mother gives for eating, cow gives us milk. This is sense. But if one becomes addicted to prostitute hunting then he will be fallen. That is the example. Then he'll become thief, rascal, cheater, drunkard, and so on, so on, so on. Why? Now, only for maintaining the family. The family maintenance, the cats and dogs, they also do, the birds also do, but they do not do anything unnatural. The bird maintains his children, brings some fruit or something in the mouth and push into mouth of the small kiddies. That is natural. But why one should take unfair means for maintaining family? This is culture. This is culture. But nowadays they have manufactured "Necessity has no law." "I require money, somehow or other I must have it and let me adopt this means, that means." No. So evaṁ nivasatas tasya lālayānasya. Lālayānasya tat-sutān. So without understanding what is the duty of human being, because he is fallen... We should not bother for maintaining our family and children till the time of death. No. Up to twenty-five years. A brahmacārī is trained to refrain from sex life, that is brahmacārī, celibacy. But if he is still not able, then he is allowed to accept gṛhastha life. There is no cheating, hypocrisy, that I proclaim myself as brahmacārī or sannyāsī and I secretly do all nonsense. This is hypocrisy. The hypocrisy life will not make one advanced in spiritual life.



That is the example given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. His personal associate, you know, Choṭa Haridāsa, Junior Haridāsa. He was a very nice singer, so he was singing in the assembly of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. One day he went to beg some rice from Śikhi Māhiti's sister, and there was a young woman and he lustfully saw her. That is sometimes natural. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu understand that, just to teach us, while He was eating He said, "Who brought this rice?" "Choṭa Haridāsa." "So ask him not to see Me anymore, finished." Everyone was surprised: "What happened?" Then by inquiry it was found that he lustfully saw one young woman. So just Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so strict that rejected him from His associates. Then other big, big devotees requested Him that "He has committed some mistake. Please excuse him. He is Your servant." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right, then you bring him back, you live here. I am leaving this place. I am leaving this place." Then they said, "No, Sir, we shall not raise this question anymore." So when Choṭa Haridāsa found it impossible to again go into the assembly of Caitanya Mahāprabhu he found it a hopeless life. Then he went to Triveṇī and committed suicide. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu knows everything. Sometimes afterward He inquired that "What about Choṭa Haridāsa?" Somebody said, "Sir, You rejected him. Out of disappointment he has committed suicide." "Oh, that's nice." Just see how strict. "That's nice." He never expressed any sympathy: "Oh, I rejected this person and he has committed suicide. Oh." No. He said, "Oh, that's nice. That's all right." He said like that. This is one thing.

*Another thing: Śivānanda was a very exalted devotee. He was taking care of all devotees who were coming to Caitanya Mahāprabhu to live during Ratha*-yātrā. So his wife came and offered Caitanya Mahāprabhu obeisances, and He saw that the wife is pregnant. So He immediately asked Śivānanda, "Your wife is pregnant?" "Yes." 'All right. When she will give birth to a child you keep his name like this." Just see. One man, simply saw with lusty desire to a young woman, he was rejected. And one man has his wife pregnant, He adored him, "That's all right." So sex life is not forbidden in this movement but hypocrisy is forbidden. If you become hypocrite, then there is no (indistinct). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Choṭa Haridāsa, he represented himself as a brahmacārī and he was looking after a young woman. Then He understood, "He is a hypocrite. Reject him." And Śivānanda Sena, he was gṛhastha, gṛhastha must have children. What is wrong there? He said, "Yes. My remnants of foodstuff should be given." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. So our request is, don't be hypocrite. There are four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Whichever āśrama is suitable for you, you accept, but sincere. Don't be hypocrite. If you think that you want sex, all right. You marry and remain like a gentleman. Don't be hypocrite. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He did not like hypocrisy. Nobody likes. But for a person who is seriously engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, for him sex life and material opulence is not very good. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu opinion. Parāṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava... Niṣkiñcanasya bhajanonmukhasya parāṁ param... Therefore voluntarily Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted sannyāsa. He was very nicely situated in his family life, and He was family man, He married twice. One wife died and He married again. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us not to become, but when He took sannyāsa He was very, very strict. No woman could come very near to Him. From distance. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching.

So you have to follow strictly the rules and regulations if you are serious. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement.

*niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad*-bhajanonmukhasya

*parāṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava*-sāgarasya

viṣayināṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca

*hā hanta hanta viṣa*-bhakṣanato 'py asādhu

[Cc. Madhya 11.8]



*Those who are determined that in his life we shall finish this material way of life... That is real struggle for existence. Actually everyone is trying. Material life means it is full of distress. Duḥkhālayam, Kṛṣṇa says. So, so long you prolong this material way of life, that is called struggle for existence. The struggle for existence, as I have repeated, this word is very common, but nobody knows what is that struggle for existence and what is the platform of becoming fittest. Nobody knows. It is we are preaching. If you remain in this material world, then struggle for existence will continue. And fittest means one who has come to the spiritual platform. He is fittest to survive. What is survival? Who is going to survive? Do you mean to say that by cultivating health culture, big, strong, and you will survive? Nobody will survive. So who will survive? Only Kṛṣṇa conscious. If he is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he will survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. The Kṛṣṇa conscious person who has studied Kṛṣṇa only (?) perfectly, then he is fit. This body is also... This body is not permanent, that's a fact. But tyaktvā dehaṁ, after giving up this body, no more material body*-spiritual body. Sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha.



*So we should be very serious. We should not fall down from the standard of Vedic culture. If you are actually serious about stopping this, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati. This is struggle for existence. In this material world everyone is struggling to survive. But who is surviving? That way, materialistic way of life will not help you to survive. That is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. Nature is so strong that you must die. "I am very strong." You may be very strong, that's all right. There is a, I mean to say, joking story that one man thought how to avoid death-Hiraṇyakaśipu. So he thought that the Yamarāja is the superintendent of death, he comes to take. So I shall make such policy that he may not come to me. What is that policy? "Bring some stool. I shall smear over my body, and out of bad smell he will not come." So he began to smear stool on his body at the time of death. So this is going on. They are making body very stout and strong so they will survive. Nobody will survive, sir, unless he is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Please bring the children forward. (kīrtana) (end)





760522SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.22

-

Honolulu, May 22, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Chapter One, text number 22. (aside:) Get on the... Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevaya, (devotees repeating) oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevaya, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevaya.



*bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair

garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ

bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir

yātayām āsa dehinaḥ

[SB 6.1.22]



So gradually the history of Ajāmila. We have already narrated, he was inhabitant of Kānyakubja. It is historical incidence. It is not a fiction, manufactured something. No. History, itihāsa. So in the Vedic literature they are... Everything is itihāsa, history. Just like in the park we were talking of the Milk Ocean. The Milk Ocean is there in some part of the universe, top, near Brahmaloka. So it is not fiction; it is itihāsa, means history. We do not know the universal history. We may know some history of our country or this planet, that's all. But there are millions and trillions of planets.



*So that history is recorded in the Vedic literature. There are different varieties of planets, there are different standard of comfort, different standard... It is stated in the Brahma*-saṁhitā that yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. The brahmajyoti, the effulgence of Kṛṣṇa's body... Just like effulgence of the sun-god's body is the sunshine. We can very easily understand. This is a material thing. There is sun-god. The sun-god, his name is Vivasvān. Everything is there. Imaṁ vivasvān, imaṁ vivasvān yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam. Kṛṣṇa says that "I spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān." Vivasvān is the name of the person who is predominating in the sun globe. So we have to know from Kṛṣṇa that sun globe is not vacant. When the king is there, the other things are also; *the kingdom is also there. That is a planet with fire, just like this planet is earth predominant, and that planet is fire predominant. And there are five elements: earth, water, fire... Somewhere the water predominates, somewhere the fire predominates, somewhere... We can experience. Just like on the sea, beach we go. We are standing where the earth is predominant, but just a few yards after, the water is predominant. But on the earth there are so many living entities*-birds, beasts, human being-why not in the water? Where is the wrong there? It is also one of the five elements. You cannot live in the water; *that does not mean others cannot live. This is common sense. They have got different body. They can live. The fish, you take out of the water*-it will die. And if you are put into the water, so long you can swim... Otherwise you'll die.

*Therefore in the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said that yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. On the effulgence, shining of Kṛṣṇa's body, there are innumerable universes. Jagad-aṇḍa. Jagad-aṇḍa, this aṇḍa. You were talking of that egg. Aṇḍa means egg, egglike. Jagad-aṇḍa. Yasya prabhā jagad-aṇḍa koṭi, and koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. In each universe there are millions and trillions of planets, each one different from the other. Vibhūti-bhinnam. Bhinnam means separate. As here earth is prominent, somewhere the fire is prominent, somewhere the air is prominent, but the whole thing is made of these five elements-earth, water, air, fire-that's all. So why should you deny that "Fire-no living entities"? You cannot live in the fire; *you cannot live in the water. Does it mean others cannot? This is foolishness. This is foolish. And Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "I spoke this philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā, to sun-god." His name is also given, Vivasvān. So Vaivasvata Manu. So either Kṛṣṇa is talking lies... How Kṛṣṇa spoke unless he's a person, living there? Everything is there. We cannot conjecture from here that "Because I cannot live in such atmosphere, therefore others cannot live." No. There are different varieties of living entities, 8,400,000 varieties. How many you have seen? Therefore you have to take knowledge from the perfect source. Then we you can understand. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum eva abhigacchet. This is Vedic injunction. If you want to know perfectly everything, then you must go to the proper teacher. Then you will learn. But how you can imagine from here? A dwarf is trying to touch the moon. How it is possible? That is not possible. The Vedic injunction is in order to... Tad-vijñānārtham. Higher science. Vijñāna means science. If you want to know higher science*-not this science, simply filling of the belly, not this science-higher science, which is above fulfilling the belly, that, for that purpose, you have to go to guru. Guru means who knows more than you. That is guru. So who can know more than Kṛṣṇa? Therefore we have to accept Kṛṣṇa as guru and learn from Him. Then you'll get perfect knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa also says that tad viddhi. Here Veda says, tad-vijñā... Tat, tat, sat, the real knowledge, transcendental knowledge, tat sat, which is eternal. So here Vedas says that tad viddhi, tad-vijñānārtham, and Kṛṣṇa also says, tad viddhi: "You try to understand this transcendental knowledge." Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. Don't go to a guru to challenge him: "I shall see how much my guru knows." Then it will be useless. Praṇipātena.

Rūpa Gosvāmī, when he was in Vṛndāvana, he was known, the most learned scholar. So one mundane scholar came, and he approached Rūpa Gosvāmī and said, "Sir, I want to talk with you on śāstras." So Rūpa Gosvāmī said, "Why talking with me about śāstras?" "Now, you are well known, so well known about śāstra, Vedic literatures. So I want to test you." "So what is the purpose?" "Now, if I can defeat you, then I will be renowned." "All right. I am defeated." So there is no question of talking, because Rūpa Gosvāmī saw, "What is the use of talking with this rascal? He is for material name and fame." "So what do you want?" "Now, if you think that you are less intelligent, then give me in writing." "All right, I am giving in writing that 'This scholar has defeated me.' " So he gave him. But Jīva Gosvāmī, his nephew, at the same time disciple, he was standing outside, that... He said, "What is that?" "Now your uncle has already given me in writing that he is defeated." "Let me see." So he took the paper. So he said, "All right, let us talk now." So when he talked with Jīva Gosvāmī, what is his learning? He became defeated. So sometimes, if somebody goes to challenge the guru, the real guru will say, "What is the use of talking with this nonsense? Better say that 'You know better than me.' That's all. 'Go away.' " Upekṣa. Upekṣa. Neglect him, because he has no intention to learn. He has come to simply waste time.

So a person like Rūpa Gosvāmī, why he will waste time talking with a nonsense? No. Actually teaching is for the student, not for outsiders. All these talks should be between... So student means who has surrendered. That, he is student. Otherwise what is the use of wasting time? There is no use. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. Praṇipātena means fully surrendering. If you have still doubts to surrender, then don't waste time. Don't waste time. That is not the way. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. Guru has to be given service, that nīcavat. That nīcavat. Nīcavat means menial servant. Whatever guru says... Guru says, "Just brush my shoes." "Yes, sir." You cannot think, "Oh, I am coming from such a respectable person, I am so much learned, and my guru is asking me to 'Brush my shoe'? No, I am not doing it." No, then you are not disciple. Nīcavat. That is the training. So praṇipāta, if you find out somebody where you can fully surrender, then accept guru. Don't make guru a fashion, just like you keep a dog, fashion, pet dog. People, they generally do that, that "Everyone has a guru. Let me collect. Let me pick up some guru who will be dancing dog." That kind of guru will not help you. You must be convinced that "Here is a guru where I can surrender." So then you can make praśna, or question. Then the question will be answered. Otherwise it is waste of time. That is not the Vedic system, simply waste of time. And if there is really talk between one philosopher to another philosopher... Just like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was a great scholar, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu...? Who can speak about scholarship? So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was defeated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was elderly person. There may be talks on philosophy, but if one party is defeated, the defeated person, he must be disciple of the winning, victorious party. But at the present moment we'll go on talking for years together, and nobody is defeated; nobody is going to be disciple. Then what is the use of talking like that? So this kind of things will not do. We have to follow the Vedic principle that either remain without guru... And if you want to make a guru, first of all be convinced that "He is fit to become my guru." But generally people, they don't want transcendental knowledge. They want some material profit. So if the guru can give him some gold, not all, then he accepts him guru or the God or something like that. So this way will not help us.

*So here this Ajāmila... Ajāmila was trained up, the son of a brāhmaṇa. Dvija, this very word is used. Kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid āsīd dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ. But unfortunately he became the husband or keeper of a prostitute. Dāsī-pati. Pati means husband, or pati means the chief. So dāsī-pati. Dāsī-pati means... Formerly, if one is prostitute-hunter, then the maidservant... Still in India the lower class, the servant class, they become prostitute. First of all no gentleman is prostitute-hunter, but if he is... He cannot make in the society a innocent girl a prostitute. That is a... There is no possibility in India still, because no respectable man's daughter will mix with any unknown young man, still. So how he (she) can become prostitute? There is no possibility. So if anyone wanted prostitute, there is this professional. The prostitute... Even in Kṛṣṇa's time there were prostitute. We have seen. When Kṛṣṇa came from, came back from Hastinapura, many prostitute devotee went to receive Him. So that means in the Vedic society prostitutes are allowed. Those who are not satisfied with one wife or legitimate wife, they can go to the prostitute. But they cannot intermingle in the society and spoil the society. So this rascal became a prostitute-hunter, dāsī-pati. Therefore it is called dāsī-pati. Dāsī means śūdra, śūdra, fourth class. The first class, brāhmaṇa; second class, kṣatriya; third class, vaiśya; and the śūdra, the fourth class, the servants, they are women.

*So he became a dāsī*-pati, Ajāmila, nāmnā, by the name. And what was the result? Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means well behavior, gentleman's behavior. And ācāra. (sic:) Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Ācāra. One who teaches ācāra, sadācāra, he is ācārya. Ācārya means one who teaches sadācāra. Just like in our society we teach, "No illicit sex." This is sadācāra. "No gambling. No drinking or intoxication." This is sadācāra, gentleman, how to become gentleman. If one is prostitute-hunter, drunkard, meat-eater, gambler, he's not even a gentleman, what to speak of becoming a devotee and philosopher? Impossible. Those who are addicted to these bad habits, in their hundreds and thousands of life they will never be able to understand what is God. The door is locked for them. So naṣṭa-sadācāra. As soon as you become illicit sex hunter, prostitute-hunter, addicted, then you will lose your sadācāra. All good behavior finished. Naṣṭa-sadācāra. Why? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-duṣitaḥ. On account of association with the prostitute, one will lose all his good qualities.

*In this way the next stage is, as soon as he lost all sadācāra, then his profession became bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. Bandy-akṣaiḥ. Just like it is very common thing, nowadays especially, that as soon as you find somebody solitary: "Yes, what you have got? Give me. Otherwise I shall kill you. Here is knife." This is called bandy-akṣaiḥ. Arrest somebody and take whatever he has got. This is called bandy-akṣaiḥ. And kaitavaiḥ, cheating: "I shall give you this. I shall..." There are so many cheating processes. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. Cauryaiḥ means stealing. Cauryair garhitām. All these are condemned things. Vṛttim āsthitaḥ. He became situated in this profession for earning his livelihood. Because he lost sadācāra, he must be coming... You'll find this. As soon as there is no sadācāra, people will be addicted to all these means. Any way get money. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. Why? Now, bibhrat kuṭumbam. He is thinking that "I have to maintain my family, my children, so any way I must get money." So bibhrat kuṭumbam. Kuṭumbam aśuciḥ, unclean. This is unclean method, aśuci. And yatayām āsa dehinaḥ. And as soon as one takes all this profession, it means his business will be to give trouble to the all living entities. Yatayām āsa dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means one who has accepted this material body. So he will not hesitate to kill anyone because he is practiced to give pains and misery to other living entities, and what to speak of killing animals under the plea, "The animal has no soul"? This rascaldom will go on.

So the civilization is how to make human being elevated to the standard of becoming a brāhmaṇa, dvija. And if one dvija falls down by bad association, especially by prostitution, then he comes to this. This is the Ajāmila's life.

Thank you very much. (end)



750707SB.CHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.23

-

Chicago, July 7, 1975



*Nitāi: "My dear King, Ajāmila, while maintaining his large family of many sons by abominable activities, passed eighty*-eight years of his life."



Prabhupāda:



evaṁ nivasatas tasya

*lālayānasya tat*-sutān

kālo 'tyagān mahān rājann

aṣṭāśītyāyuṣaḥ samāḥ

[SB 6.1.23]



*So his living condition was cheating and stealing and forcing others to snatch away some money. This was his living condition. So he was thinking, "I am very happy. I am begetting children..." Lālayānasya tat*-sutān. Every year, one children, and getting money by cheating others, and living very peacefully. But the time factor was waiting, according to one's duration of life. So when aṣṭāśīti, eighty-eight years reached, his death was imminent. Kāla. Kāla means death. So he did not know that time and tide waits for no man. When time will come, death, then all this my paraphernalia will be taken away. I am very proud of my wealth, prestigious position, family, society. Everything is all right. But what about your death? Do you think that any day death will come and it will take everything, what you possess?



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. We are accumulating so many things, big, big buildings, big, big estate, big, big bank balance, big, big family. That's all right, but what is the guarantee that we will be able to enjoy this? That they are not thinking. And it is a fact that death may come at any moment. Especially nowadays. So you... There is no guarantee. Even in your ordinary life you are going by the car, there may be accident. "Maybe" not. They are taking place. So many people are dying. He does not expect that "I am going to office. I shall be killed." In aeroplane crash... So there is no guarantee. Any moment we can die. But we are not thinking..., because they have made this theory, "There is no life after death. So enjoy. Enjoy life as far as possible." But that is not the fact. After death, we will have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. But they try to forget it. And the argument they put forward, that "Even I get one body next life, I shall forget this life. So what is the wrong? Let us enjoy." This is called life of ignorance, passion. But this is not the proper life.

*So yesterday we discussed the different grades of life: first class, second class, third class, fourth class, fifth class, sixth class. So this kind of life, without any responsibility and carried away by the waves of time, is the tenth*-class life. This is tenth-class life, ignorance. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he sings one song, miche māyār bośe, jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi: "By the waves of māyā you are being carried away, and hābuḍubu, sometimes being drowned within the, under the water, and sometimes rising, floating on the water." This is our life, material life. We are being carried away by the waves of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. And sometimes... Just like in the waves of water you will find many straws and vegetables and leaves, they gather together. You will find. And again, by another toss, they are separated. One straw goes this way, another straw, leaf, goes this way, no combination. Similarly, we are, gathering together: society, friendship, love, community, society, and so on, so on, nationality, family, sons, daughters, wife. The same thing: the waves of water gathering together the straws, leaves, and other, and another wave, finished. All society, friendship, love, children, wife, everything, national-finished. This is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].

*In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhūtvā. Bhūtvā means taking shape in some particular type of body. The living soul is there within this body, but the outward dress... Just like we are sitting, so many persons*-we have got different dresses-similarly, all these 8,400,000's different forms of life, they are coming into existence and again changing. This is called material world. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. But we are hearing from authorities like Lord Kṛṣṇa. He says, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "My dear Arjuna, a living entity does not take birth. There is no birth, death, old age, disease of the spirit soul." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. That is understanding, that we, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, we, all of us, we are particle of Brahman. Therefore we are eternal. There is no birth, death, old age, and disease. So actually, we do not like to die. Why? Because I am eternal, you are eternal, so I want to live forever. But we are put under certain condition of this material world, that we have to die.

*Die means in this body we are creating some situation for the next life, and in order to accept... Just like one person*-especially this Ajāmila upākhyāna-his ways of life was not ordinary; most abominable. So abominable, good, or bad, in this life we are creating some situation so that we will get next life another body. Therefore there is death. That is material world. And as soon as there is death, there is birth. Death means we enter into the womb of a mother for, say, ten months. That ten months is considered as death. Not ten months, because the child within the womb of the mother returns his consciousness when the child is seven months old. This is human body. At that time he feels inconvenience within the womb of mother. Before that, he is unconscious, sleeping. Now, when the body grows within the mother womb and it is seven months, then he returns consciousness. He feels inconvenient. And he is very eager to come out. Those who are advanced, they pray to God, "My Lord, somehow or other get me release from this condition. This life I shall devote for rendering You service so that I may be free from this condition." So similarly, at ten months, ten days, he comes out and..., but forgets. Svajanera kole. Many relatives, mother, father, takes care, and he forgets that "I promised I shall become Kṛṣṇa conscious this time." But on account of illusory energy, he thought that "I am very comfortably situated. My father is taking care. My mother is taking care. My relatives are taking care. So very happy life." This is called forgetfulness.

*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī, therefore, he remained within the womb of his mother for sixteen years. And as soon as he got out from the mother's womb, immediately he left home. You will read in Bhāgavatam. So father was going after. After all, father, that "This boy, going out. My dear son, come back. Where you are going? Where you are going?" He didn't care. He didn't care. He went away. There are persons like that. They don't want to be attached to this material affection. Māyāra vaibhava. These are expansion of the illusory energy. That is sense. That is first*-class understanding. Actually, there is no need of this material world. Just like somebody says that "If all the prisoners become free, how the prisonhouse will go on?" And is it a very good proposal? The prisonhouse, as soon as it is stopped, as soon as it is closed, that is good for the society. Why there should be prisonhouse at all? But they want to maintain the prisonhouse and very anxious, "If people all are set free, then who will fill up this prisonhouse?" They question that, that "If all people go to back to home, back to Godhead, then how this world will go on?" (laughter) That is their anxiety. But we say the sooner you close this business and all of you go back to home, back to Godhead, then everything is very nice.

Devotees: Jaya! Jaya, Prabhupāda!



*Prabhupāda: So kāla, as it is said. Kālaḥ atyagāt mahān. Mahān means very powerful, great. You may be a very big scientist and very powerful politician, you don't care for anything, but you cannot conquer over the mahān, the great powerful time. Oh, that is not possible. You are independent. You don't care for God. But God will come. You will see. Kālo 'smi. When Kṛṣṇa showed the gigantic form, virāḍ*-mūrti, Arjuna enquired, "Who are You, Sir?" Because he was dealing with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but after seeing the virāḍ-rūpa, the gigantic universal form, so he enquired, "Who are You, Sir?" He replied, kālo 'smi: "I am kāla, kāla. I have appeared to take away all these sinful demons." So Kṛṣṇa appears still in form of war, big gigantic war, and takes away so many millions of people by one stroke. This is going on. So we should have sense that "We hear from the śāstras that we are eternal. Why we are subjugated to these laws of nature, kāla? I do not wish to die, I do not wish to suffer, I do not wish to be old man, I do not wish to be diseased, and these things are forced upon me. I have to accept, and still, I am so fool, I am thinking I am independent." This is called foolishness, rascaldom.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to remove this rascaldom, foolishness. That is the purpose of this movement, that "Sir, you are not independent. You are completely under the grip of material nature, and after death, your all independence finished. You are under the control of material nature, and you have to accept. A type of body will be forced upon you." Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. So how the next body is formed? Karmaṇā, by your activities. You are forming your next body. You are responsible for your next body. Therefore you should not become a tenth-class man like Ajāmila. Of course, Ajāmila is better than anyone. That will come. But we are creating this tenth class... No. Everyone has the chance to become first-class man and come to the understanding, the value of life, and mold our life so that we can, next life we can get better chance. The so-called Darwin's evolutionary theory... Some way or other, he brings to the human body, but he has not discussed what is after human body. He has avoided. But after this, that depends on your work. Because your consciousness is developed than the animal, than the cats and dogs. And the śāstra is giving you information, how you can get the other body, next body.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find,

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Now make your choice. There are different planets. These rascals say that only living entities are in this planet, and all planets are vacant. Just see their scientific knowledge. What the other planets have done? It is made of the same ingredient, five elements, earth, water, air, fire, and we find innumerable living entities within this planet, and why other planets made of the same ingredient and there is vacant? Why? This is not scientific knowledge. The other planets are also filled up with living entities. Even in the sun planet. We cannot think... The sun planet is made of fire. How living entities can live there? Yes. Why not? You have to little consider about your rascal senses. What is the fault in the sun planet that there shall be no life? The five elements means earth, water, fire, air, ether. So fire is as good as the earth, one of the elements. Earth, water, fire, air, ether or sky. So we are experiencing that on earth, on the land, there are so many lives. And in the water there are so many lives. In the air there are so many lives. And why not in the fire? What is the reason? You have got some concocted ideas that in fire, nobody can live there. But Bhagavad-gītā says, "No, you can live there." There is a verse-I now forget*-that "Fire cannot burn it." Can anyone recite that verse?



Nitāi: Adāhyo 'yam?



*Prabhupāda: Adāhyo 'yam. Adāhyo 'yam. This is the nature of the soul, adāhya. Aśoṣyo 'yam, aśoṣyo 'yam. The, that is the distinction between the soul and the matter. Matter, any matter you take, earth, earthly matter, even the hardest matter, namely the iron, it can be melted, it can be burned. But the soul is distinct from this matter. Therefore it is described, adāhyo 'yam. Any material thing can be dried up by the air. But soul, aśoṣyo 'yam: "It is not dried up." Any material thing can be moistened. So the soul cannot be. In this way every particular there is. So in the fire the soul cannot be adāhyo 'yam, it cannot be burned. And we get information, as there are worms in everything, earth, water, fire... In the fire there are worms. They are called agni-po(?). Where is the scientist? But we get this information from the śāstra. Agni-po(?), worms within the fire. And Kṛṣṇa says, above all*-this is also Kṛṣṇa's statement-imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. There is kingdom. There is city. There is population. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa went there long, long ago, forty millions of years, and He instructed this Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god? Vivasvān, his name, is also there. Not fictitious. This is the paramparā system. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1].



*So we have got picture in our Bhagavad-gītā. The sun*-god is listening. The sun-god, there is sun-god. Just like here we have got a god, Ford or Nixon, similarly, in every planet there is a god. Therefore it is described, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. All these gods, they are demigods. They are not God. God is one. So deva. That... If you try to go to the sun planet, moon planet, or any other planet, millions and trillions of planet, you can go. Higher planetary system, lower planetary system, that you can go. That is... The description is there in the śāstras. They are going to the moon. Of course, I have several times... They have never gone, but anyway... You can go to the moon planet. How you can go, the description is there. So moon planet is not vacant. That is counted amongst the heavenly planets. If anyone can go there, he can live there for ten thousands of years. Ten thousand of years means according to the demigods' years. Their duration and our duration is: our one day, our six months, their one day. That is admitted by scientists that you go higher, the relative time is different. Just like when the Russians first of all sent that sputnik, in one hour, twenty-five minutes, they surrounded all over the world. Now it is relative. You have got a speedy vehicle. So generally, the 25,000 miles, this earth, it takes long, long time, even you go by aeroplane But when you have got a better machine, it is finished within one hour, twenty-five minutes. So as you go higher, higher, the time duration becomes different. This is called relativity. We hear from the Bhagavad-gītā the duration of life of Brahmā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Our some millions of years is equal to twelve hours of Brahmā.

*So in this way, if you like to go to the other, higher planetary system, there is system, how to go there. As we have got system here in this world... If anyone wants to come to America, he has to arrange for visa and passport and so many things. Without going through the system, you cannot enter by force. So these foolish people are thinking that "There is no living entity. It is lying vacant, and by force, we can go there." And after spending millions of dollars, we come back with some dust, that's all. (laughter) And become proud that we have gone to moon planet. So the Vedic śāstra does not say so. But you can go there. You can live there, a higher standard of comfortable life, higher duration of life. Yānti deva*-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. You can go there. But anywhere you go within this material world, either the moon planet or sun planet or Brahmaloka, Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, that is also not permanent settlement. After many, many years, you have to come... Kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. When your resultant action of pious life will be finished, you will come back again.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that why we shall accept this material body, which is limited? Maybe one hundred years or one thousand years or one hundred second or millions of... The our advice is that take, revive your original, permanent life, eternal life, and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our program. Don't die like Ajāmila and others. This is our program. Those who are intelligent, they will take advantage of this movement, and... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So take advantage of this movement intelligently, and there is no difficulty. You can see practically. We are not in any kind of difficulty. Very easily... Susukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. Those who are devotees executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, susukham, they are happy. Susukhaṁ kartum... To execute this Kṛṣṇa conscious atmosphere, susukham, what is that? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance and take prasādam. That's all. Where is the difficulty? So our request is take advantage of this movement and push it on. Those who are in ignorance, they do not know what is the value of life, what is next life. Just enlighten them. That is a good business. Kṛṣṇa will recognize. Anyone who is pushing on this movement, he is immediately recognized. Because Kṛṣṇa wants... We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. He wants us back to home, live with Him comfortably, without any disadvantage of conditional life, freedom. Kṛṣṇa wants. Therefore he comes: yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. That dharmasya glāniḥ means... Dharma means religious. Glāni means pollution. What is that? We are manufacturing so many rascal type of religion. This is dharmasya glāniḥ. But real religion is as Kṛṣṇa says. What is that? Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is religion. Religion means the order of Kṛṣṇa. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. You cannot manufacture religion. Religion means you carry out the order of God. That is religion. That is religion. So you do not know what is God, what is the order of God, or even if you know, you do not carry out-then what is the meaning of your religion? It has no meaning. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam directly takes it, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramaḥ nirmatsarāṇāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra.

So this Bhāgavata religion is not a cheating religion. This is real religion. Don't be carried away by cheating type of religion; you do not understand what is the value of life, what is the goal of life, how we can revive our eternal life. These things are to be known, and then your life, human life, is successful. And that chance is present before you in this form of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Take advantage of it and be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



760523SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.23

-

Honolulu, May 23, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter One, verse number 23. (devotees repeat)



evaṁ nivasatas tasya

*lālayānasya tat*-sutān

kālo 'tyagān mahān rājann

aṣṭāśītyāyuṣaḥ samāḥ

[SB 6.1.23]



*So in this way the Ajāmila, he practiced this unfair way of livelihood. Bandy*-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. So vṛtti means livelihood. If one adopts abominable livelihood, there is no, I mean to say, hope of spiritual advancement, finished because... We have learned from Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna says Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. "Kṛṣṇa, you are the Supreme Brahman, param dhāma, the supreme resort of everything, and pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, and the supreme pure." So nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa if he's impure. That is not possible. In the Bhagavad-gītā still it is said, yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpam: "One who is free from all contamination of sinful activities, yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpam janānām puṇya-karmaṇām, "simply engaged in pious activities only," te, "such persons," dvanda-moha-nirmukta, "without any doubt and duality," bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ, "with fixed up mind he can become Kṛṣṇa conscious."



*So this Ajāmila, he learned all this nonsense, abominable way of livelihood. And therefore his example is given, how he was downtrodden and fallen. Still by the grace of Nārāyaṇa how he was elevated, that is the itihāsa, history, which is, Sūta Gosvāmī is citing, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is powerful. That is the motive of narrating Ajāmila ūḍha, delivering Ajāmila. So here it is said, evaṁ nivasatas tasya lālayānasya tat*-sutān. Everyone is tat-sutān, his children. Even one big economic, economist professor, Prof. Marshall, he says... I was student of economics in the Marshall book. He says that economic development begins out of family affection. Family affection. That is the basis. That was his understanding, that nobody would work for livelihood unless he is attached in family. That is his proposition. So here he was attached to the family. Lālayānasya tat-sutān. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra sutāpta vittaiḥ [SB 5.5.8]. Material bondage is that family affection. It is not that one has to give up this procedure. No, that is not.

*The Vedic civilization is so nice that you accept the platform which is suitable for you, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. The spiritual... These are called āśrama. Āśrama means where spiritual culture is practiced. That is called āśrama. Perhaps you know this āśrama word. Āśrama means... It is not a place for sense gratification. It is a place for advancing in Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is āśrama. So there are four āśramas for your spiritual cultivation: brahmacārī, gṛhastha... Gṛhastha is also āśrama, family. That is also āśrama. If the gṛhastha life is meant for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is all right. This is āśrama. Gṛhastha āśrama, then retired life, vānaprastha. Although gṛhastha āśrama is allowed, but not for all the time, that up to the death, no. That is not allowed. After fiftieth year... Twenty*-five years to fiftieth year the young man's spirit is there, the sex power is strong, so the gṛhastha-āśrama is a concession for satisfying sex, that's all. But not more than fifty years. Then you must give up. That is the Vedic civilization. You accept gṛhastha āśrama.

*Up to twenty*-fifth year you remain a brahmacārī, learn from guru how to become brahmacārī, guru-kula. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānta, how to practice self-control, sense control. A brahmacārī is forbidden to see even young girl. Even the spiritual master's wife is young... Sometimes spiritual master is considered as mother. Ādau mātā guru-patnī. There are seven mothers. So real mother, ādau mātā... Guru-patnī, the spiritual master's wife, she is also mother. Ādau mātā guru-patnī brāhmaṇī. The wife of a brāhmaṇa is mother. Actually every woman is mother. That is moral instruction. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Anyone, any woman who is not your wife, except your wife, every woman is to be considered as mother. This is education.

*The nutshell of education is defined by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita that "Who is paṇḍita, learned?" So he does not say that one who has passed MA, Ph D, DAC, no. He doesn't say that. He says, "Any person who has learned to see like this." What is that? Mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu: "Everyone's wife should be considered..." Para-dāra. Para means others' wife. Mātṛvat, mother. Therefore the Vedic system is, when we address another woman, "Mother," no other address. "Mother, can I do this? Would you like this?" The address should be "Mother." Practice. This is practice, the brahmacārī's practice. He goes to every householder's wife: "Mother, give me some..." Just like this child. If he is taught from the very beginning of his life that "Address all women as mother..." That training and intermingling with anyone, then it is a different training. That is brahmacārī. So brahmacārī is taught that how he should behave in society, what is the aim of life. That is brahmacārī. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu.

*Para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. And other's property? Just like garbage. Nobody goes. But I have seen. Nowadays garbage is also tackled. I have seen in Hong Kong, one woman is finding out something valuable from the garbage. This is Kali-yuga. It is untouchable, but still, people are trying to get something from the garbage, so downtrodden, this Kali-yuga. So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu: "All other living entities think like yourself." That means your pains and pleasure, as you feel, you should take up others' pains and pleasure, not that you protect yourself from all danger and you cut the throat of the poor animals on the plea that it has no soul. This is not education. This is education, that whether the animal has soul or not soul we shall consider later on. But when knife is on my throat I cry, and he also cries. Why shall I say that "It has no soul, and let me kill it"? So that means he does not know how to see other living entities like himself. Buddha philosophy is based on this, that "Whatever you feel, pain, you should not inflict to others." This is education. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat ātmavat. So this is moral education, and in the śāstra it is also said that there are seven mothers.

*ādau mātā guru*-patnī

*brāhmaṇī rāja*-patnikā

dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī

sapteti mātarī smṛta



*Real mother and guru*-patnī, the wife of spiritual master or teacher... Ādau mātā guru-patnī, brāhmaṇī, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. And rāja-patnikā, the queen, she is also mother. Dhenu, cow. Dhenur dhātrī, nurse. Dhenur dhātrī, tathā pṛthvī, as well as the earth. Earth is mother because they are giving us so many things, fruit, flowers, grains for our eating. Mother gives for eating. Cow gives us milk. This is sense.



*But if one becomes addicted to prostitute*-hunting then he'll be fallen. That is the example. Then he'll become thief, rascal, cheater, drunkard, and so on, so on, so on. Why? Now, only for maintaining the family. The family maintenance, the cats and dogs, they also do, the birds also do, but they do not do anything unnatural. A bird maintains his children, brings some fruit or something in the mouth and puts into the mouth of the small kiddies. So that is natural. But why one should take unfair means for maintaining family? This is culture. This is culture. So but nowadays they have manufactured. "Necessity has no law." "I require money, so somehow or other I must have it. Let me adopt this means, that means." No. So evaṁ nivasatas tasya lālayānasya. The lālayānasya tat-sutān. So without understanding what is the duty of human being, because he is fallen, so we should not bother for maintaining our family and children till the time of death.

*No. Up to twenty*-five years. A brahmacārī is trained to refrain from sex life. That is brahmacārī, celibacy. But if he is still not able, then he is allowed to accept gṛhastha life. There is no cheating, hypocrisy, that I proclaim myself as brahmacārī or sannyāsī, and I secretly do all nonsense. This is hypocrisy. The hypocrisy life will not make one advance in spiritual life. That is the example given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. His personal associate you know, Choṭa Haridāsa, Junior Haridāsa. He was a very nice singer, so he was singing in the assembly of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and one day he went to beg some rice from Śikhi Mahiti's sister, and there was a young woman, and he lustfully saw there. That is sometimes natural. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu understand that. Just to teach us, while He was eating, He said, "Who brought this rice?" "Choṭa Haridāsa." "So ask him not to see Me anymore. Finish." Everyone was surprised. "What happened?" Then by inquiry it was found that he lustfully saw on young woman. So just... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so strict that He rejected him from His associates. Then other big, big devotees requested him that "He has committed some mistake, and please excuse him. He is your servant." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right, then you bring him back. You live with him. I am leaving this place. I am leaving this place." They said, "No, sir, we shall not raise this question anymore."

So when this Choṭa Haridāsa found it impossible to again go into the assembly of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he found it hopelessness. Then he went to Triveṇī and committed suicide. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu knows everything. Then, sometimes after, He inquired, "What about Choṭa Haridāsa?" Somebody said, "Sir, You rejected him. Out of disappointment, he has committed suicide in the..." "Oh, that's nice." Just see how strict. "That's nice." He never expect (expressed?) any, any sympathy: "Oh, I rejected this person and he has committed suicide?" Oh. No, He said, "That's nice. That's all right." He said like that. This is one thing.

*Another thing, Śivānanda, one of His very exalted devotee, he was taking care of all devotees who were coming to Caitanya Mahāprabhu to visit during Ratha*-yātrā. So his wife came and offered Caitanya Mahāprabhu obeisances, and he saw that the wife is pregnant. So immediately asked, "Śivānanda, your wife is pregnant." "Yes". "All right, when she gives birth to a child, you keep his name like that." Now see. One man, simply he saw with lusty desire to a young (woman) man; he was rejected. And one man has his wife pregnant; He adored him: "That's all right." So sex life is not forbidden in this movement but hypocrisy is forbidden. If you become hypocrite, then there is nowhere to... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Choṭa Haridāsa, he presented himself as a brahmacārī and he was looking after a young woman. Then He understood, "He is a hypocrite. Reject him." And Śivānanda Sena, he was a gṛhastha. Gṛhastha must have children. What is wrong there? He said, "Yes, my remnants of foodstuff should be given." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement.

So our request is, don't be hypocrite. There are four āśramas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Whichever āśrama is suitable for you, you accept, but sincere. Don't be hypocrite. If you think that you want sex, all right, you marry and remain like a gentleman. Don't be hypocrite. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He did not like hypocrisy. Nobody likes. But for a person who is seriously engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, for him sex life and material opulence is not very good. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's opinion. Pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava..., niṣkiñcanasya bhajanonmukhasya, pāraṁ param... Therefore voluntarily Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted sannyāsa. He was very nicely situated in His family life. When He was family man, He married twice. One wife died; He married again. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us not to become... But when He took sannyāsa, He was very, very strict. No woman could come very near to Him. From distance... This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. So you have to follow strictly the rules and regulation. If you are serious, then this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement.

*niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad*-bhajanonmukhasya

*pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava*-sāgarasya

viṣayināṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca

*ha hanta hanta viṣa*-bhakṣanato 'py asādhu

[Cc. Madhya 11.8]



Those who are determined that "In this life we shall finish this material way of life, or material..." That is real struggle for existence. Actually everyone is trying. Material life means it is full of distress, duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says. So so long you'll prolong this material way of life, that is called struggle for existence. The "struggle for existence" and "survival of the fittest," this word is very common but nobody knows what is that struggle for existence and what is the platform of becoming fittest. Nobody knows. It is we are preaching that "If you remain in this material world, then struggle for existence will continue." And fittest means one who has come to the spiritual platform, he is fittest to survive. What is survival? Who is going to survive? Do you mean to say by cultivating health culture, very strong, you'll survive? Nobody will survive. So who will survive? Only Kṛṣṇa conscious. If he is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he will survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. The Kṛṣṇa conscious person who has studied Kṛṣṇa only, nothing more, perfectly, that is fit. This body also, this body is not permanent. That's a fact. But tyaktvā deham, after giving up this body no more material body; *spiritual body, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1].



*So we should be very serious. We should not fall down from the standard of Vedic culture. If you are actually serious about stopping this... Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. This is struggle for existence. In this material world everyone is struggling to survive. But who is surviving? That way, materialistic way of life, will not help you to survive. That is... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. Nature is so strong that you must die. "I am very strong." You may be very strong, that's all right, but you must. There is a, I mean to say, joking story that one man thought, "How to avoid death?" Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. So he thought that "Yamarāja is the superintendent of death. He comes to take, so I shall make such policy that he may not come to me." What is that policy? "So bring some stool. I shall smear over my body, and out of bad smell, he'll not come." So he began to smear stool on his body at the time of death. So this is going on. They are making body very stout and strong so they'll survive. Nobody will survive, sir, unless he is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Thank you very much. (end)



750708SB.CHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.24

-

Chicago, July 8, 1975



Nitāi: "Ajāmila had ten sons. The youngest son, named Nārāyaṇa, was a child begotten while Ajāmila was very old. Because he was the youngest son, he was naturally very dear to his father and mother."



Prabhupāda:



tasya pravayasaḥ putrā

daśa teṣāṁ tu yo 'vamaḥ

bālo nārāyaṇo nāmnā

pitroś ca dayito bhṛśam

[SB 6.1.24]



*So a small child of very old man, because when the child, baby, is within two, three years, they are taken care of especially by the parents. And the youngest son, when the child is two, three years, naturally he is youngest. So youngest is taken more care. Sneha, affection, is compared with oil. Sneha means oil. So affection is just like oil. Why? Now, you put oil in the ground, it will glide down where there is slope. So generally, the affection goes down to the youngest child. The particular point in this connection is pravayasaḥ. Pravayasaḥ means very old. Yes, he was eighty*-eight years old. So this child might be three years or two years, less than three years. That means when he was eighty-five or eighty-six he begot a child. This is the purpose, to point out. This is family life. He is going to die after one or two years, and still, he is begetting child. Therefore this word is used, pravayasaḥ. This is not proper life that up to the point of death one has to beget a child. This is animal life. Human life, maximum fifty years, that's all. After that, by force, pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet, give up this family life. And if you don't give up, then you remain and go on begetting children. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. What is the happiness of this gṛhamedhī life, attached to family life? The only happiness is this sex, that's all. Otherwise there is no happiness. They are working day and night. Therefore, at the present moment the tendency is to kill the child. Because to enjoy sex life means there must be pregnancy. But when there is pregnancy, either illicit or..., legal or illegal, the child-bearing, the giving birth to the child, then taking care of it, then growing, raising, feeding him, education-so many troubles there is. But tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ [SB 7.9.45].



*The kṛpaṇa, those who are not brāhmaṇa... The brāhmaṇa means liberal or advanced in knowledge, and kṛpaṇa means miser. So the opposite word of brāhmaṇa is kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa... Because one who is liberal, he knows how to utilize this life, therefore he is called brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānāti. This life is meant for knowing Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth. That is brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And if somebody, getting this human life, he does not become a brāhmaṇa, then he remains a kṛpaṇa, miser. Kṛpaṇa means miser. You have got some millions of dollars, but you do not spend it. You keep it in the safe and see daily, "Oh, I have got so much money." They are kṛpaṇa. Why you keep money? Utilize it. Distribute it for Kṛṣṇa. That is brāhmaṇa. Why should you keep it? But the kṛpaṇa, they do not know how to utilize the money. The money belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. So He is the proprietor. Some way or other... Just like in our society somebody is entrusted with millions of dollars to spend. But that money is Kṛṣṇa's money; *it is not his money. Similarly, you take big society, the nation, the community, whatever money is there, that is Kṛṣṇa's money. So if we spend it properly, conscientiously, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then it is properly utilized. Otherwise he becomes a kṛpaṇa, miser. He got the opportunity to serve Kṛṣṇa*-Kṛṣṇa gave him so much money-but he kept it without any use. That is called kṛpaṇa.

*So brāhmaṇa and... Brāhmaṇas, I have already explained, that brāhmaṇa's business is dāna*-pratigraha. He will collect. Brāhmaṇa has the right to collect from his disciples. Spiritual master. But he will distribute it. Dāna-pratigraha. He will be also a man charitably disposed, spending that money for public welfare, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa, this word, is used, kṛpaṇāḥ phala-hetavaḥ. The kṛpaṇas, they are simply trying to get some benefit. Another word is used:

*yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ

*kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha*-duḥkham

*tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ

kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ

[SB 7.9.45]



*Dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. This word is used, dhīra. So if one is not dhīra, adhīra, agitated always, they will go on begetting children one after another, up to the eighty*-ninth year. Why? Tṛpyanti... They are not satisfied, although to beget a child means so many troubles, if you are responsible father. And those who are not responsible father-mother, they want to kill it, that's all. This is the psychology of killing children nowadays, because they know that "This child, I have to take care so much," bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. There are... Tṛpyanti... By very analytical study... Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. This happiness of the gṛhamedhī, family attachment... Family you can utilize, gṛhastha. If you are inconvenienced to accept sannyāsa or brahmacārī life, remain in household life, but the purpose is the same, to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one is in the family life and is trying to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is called gṛhastha, and his family life is called gṛhastha-āśrama. Just like sannyāsa-āśrama. Āśrama means where there is activities, spiritual. That is called āśrama. So if you remain as gṛhastha or family man, there is no harm. But utilize for advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you are gṛhastha. And if you do not know that, if you simply remain a family man for satisfying your senses and begetting children up to the point of death, that is called gṛhamedhī. These two words. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām [SB 2.1.2]. So one should not be gṛhamedhī. One may become gṛhastha. That is the difference.



So this man, Ajāmila, was not a gṛhastha because his beginning of life is that he gave up his married life. He was married with nice wife, coming from respectable family, but he gave up that, and he was attached to a maidservant. And he gave up his real family life. He became a family man with this maidservant, and go on begetting children. That was his life. Therefore this word is used particularly, tasya pravayasaḥ. He was old enough; *still, he was begetting child. But one who is brāhmaṇa, he would not stay in family life more than fiftieth year. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. One must go to the forest. Forest means vana, and therefore, one who goes to the forest, from the word vana, it is vāna, vānaprastha. Prastha mean one who has gone. This is regulative life. One has to take leave from this family life and accept the vānaprastha. Vānaprastha means prior to accepting the renounced order of life. The husband and wife goes out of home and travels in many holy places to associate with holy man and take his instruction just to prepare for sannyāsa. So when one is fully equipped in knowledge, then he asks his wife to go to home to be taken care of by the elderly children, and he becomes a sannyāsī. This is called varṇāśrama*-dharma. This is real purpose of life. Four varṇas, four classes of men, up to fourth class, not up to tenth class. And then spiritual life: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This institution is called varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas and four āśrama. So when one is educated or trained up by this varṇāśrama institution, then his human life begins. Otherwise he is animal. One who does not take to this varṇāśrama-dharma, he remains in the animal life. That is the Vedic system. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the aim of life?" Rāmānanda Rāya immediately replied that,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



The real purpose of life, goal of life, is to satisfy Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu, Lord, the Supreme Lord, or Kṛṣṇa. This is life, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to know Kṛṣṇa, and try to satisfy Him. That is life.



*So to enter into this elevated life, fulfilling the desire or the aim of life is varṇāśrama*-dharma. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate. Viṣṇur ārādhyate, that is required, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious or Viṣṇu conscious and to worship Him. So that begins with this varṇāśrama. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He knew that this is Kali-yuga; *it is very, very difficult to engage people strictly in the varṇāśrama-dharma. Actually it is difficult. Who is going... If you open a varṇāśrama college, there will be no student. Because they will think, "What is this nonsense, varṇāśrama? Let us learn technology. We shall get good salary. We shall earn money." Yes. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. In this age it is not possible, varṇāśrama-dharma. So āge kaha āra: "If you know something better than this, you say." So in this way Rāmānanda Rāya recommended that karma-tyāga, sannyāsa, so many stages. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu went on saying, eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "This is useless now. If you know better, then something, something." So then at last*-not at last, in the middle-Rāmānanda Rāya said that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva..., namanta eva, bhavadīya-vārtām, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. The purport is that all these processes recommended in the śāstra, varṇāśrama-dharma, acceptance of sannyāsa, or other, karma-tyāga, miśra, karma-miśra-jñāna... There are so many things.

*So Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya. But when he quoted one passage from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, quotation... That is the statement of Lord Brahmā,

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

*jīvanti san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

*sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir

*ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri*-lokyām



*Our aim is how to realize God. That is the aim. So there are so many different processes recommended in the śāstra: varṇāśrama*-dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti. So all of them were rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. But when He quoted this verse... What is this? Jñāne prayāsam. People are trying to understand the Absolute Truth by speculation, according to one's knowledge. The so-called philosopher, theosophists, theologists, these are useless. You cannot speculate to understand the Absolute Truth. That is not possible. Therefore Brahmā recommends that one should give up this nonsense practice. It is not nonsense, but at the present moment it has no use. The so-called theolosophists and theologists or philosophers, they do not know, speculators. So this sort of practice, jñāne prayāsam, endeavoring after knowledge, udapāsya, give up this. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya.



*Then what is required? Namanta eva. Just become submissive. Don't think yourself as very great philosopher, theologist, scientist. Just be humble. "My dear sir, just be humble." Namanta eva. "Then what will be my business? All right, I shall become humble. Then how I shall make progress?" Now, namanta eva san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. "Just hear the message of God." "From whom?" San-mukharitām: "through the mouth of the devotees." Not professional, not gramophone-through the mouth of, through the lips of real devotee. "So then? Next? I will have to become sannyāsa or gṛhastha or what?" "No." Sthāne sthitāḥ: "You remain wherever you are. Either you are a gṛhastha or a vānaprastha, or apart from that, either you are a medical man or engineer or politician or businessman or shopkeeper-something your position is there-so you remain in that." Sthāne sthitāḥ: "You remain in your position. Simply you have to hear the message of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, through the realized saintly person." This recommendation. If you go on speculating, you will never be able to understand. Therefore give up this practice. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. "Be submissive." If you think, "Oh, I am so much advanced. I can speculate. Why shall I go to a devotee and hear from him?" No. You have to adopt this. Why? If you want to conquer the ajita. Ajita, ajita means Kṛṣṇa, or God. Nobody can conquer Him. But you can conquer Him. How? By this process. Remain your process..., remain in your situation, in your occupation, but try to hear from the realized soul. Very simple thing.

*So this process is recommended to realize God. Yadi... If somebody follows this process without mental speculation and if he has got intelligence, by hearing from the realized soul, he will realize everything. Kṛṣṇa will also help him from within. Guru means Kṛṣṇa without, and Supersoul means Kṛṣṇa within. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He is ready to help us from within and without, both ways. We have to take advantage of this. So if we become devotee, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, and engage our body, mind, tanu... Tanu means body, and vāk means words. Tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. And mano means mind. We have got three things: mind, this body, and words, vāk. So we can serve Kṛṣṇa according to the direction of the śāstra. Śāstra, guru, satām. Satām means one who... Ācārya means one who knows śāstra. He will not speak anything which is not in the śāstra. He will never say, "In my opinion you can do like this." No. He must give evidence from the śāstra. Therefore our practice is, whenever we speak something, immediately we quote from authoritative śāstra. In this way...

*So here it is said, tasya pravayasaḥ putrā daśa. So in his so-called gṛhamedhī life... That I was going to explain. Gṛhamedhī life means darkness. He will know simply how to beget child, that's all, up to the eighty-fifth year. He is going to die next moment. So he is fortunate that he named his son Nārāyaṇa. This is God's grace. This was done*-Kṛṣṇa is so kind-because in his youthhood he was a devotee. Not devotee; *he was trying to become a devotee. Dvija, he was initiated. We have begun his life that kānyakubje kaścid dvijaḥ. He was initiated, but he fell down. Later on, he fell down in contact with a prostitute. Therefore he lost his all qualification, and he was busy... Instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, he was busy in begetting children, up to the eighty*-fifth year. Therefore pravayasaḥ. Although he had made... The last one is tenth. Although he had nine sons, still, at the eighty-fifth year he is begetting another. That is called kṛpaṇa.

*tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ

kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ

[SB 7.9.45]



Dhīra, one who is sober, he thinks that "What is the use of simply begetting children? One, two, three, that's all. Let me engage now in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is dhīra, sober.



*So we should not be like this Ajāmila, go on begetting children, children, children, children, up to eighty*-fifth year. No. Teṣāṁ yaḥ avamaḥ. The most junior, the small, the latest edition, they are very much fond, father and mother. It is said, bālo nārāyaṇo nāmnā pitroś ca dayito bhṛśam. Pitroḥ, pitroḥ means parents, father and mother, naturally, dayitaḥ, very merciful upon him than all other, bhṛśam, sufficiently. So the idea is that by God's grace, because in the beginning of his life he engaged himself to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and he was initiated, but later on... But the first assessment of his life, that helped him that Kṛṣṇa gave him the advice, "All right, you keep your this youngest son's name Nārāyaṇa, because you will be naturally attached to this boy and you will call him, 'Nārāyaṇa, please come here. Nārāyaṇa, take your food. Nārāyaṇa, take your drink.' So you will chant 'Nārāyaṇa.' " (pause)

All right. Thank you very much. (end)



760524SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.24

-

Honolulu, May 24, 1976



Prabhupāda: (leads chanting, etc.)



tasya pravayasaḥ putrā

daśa teṣāṁ tu yo 'vamaḥ

bālo nārāyaṇo nāmnā

pitroś ca dayito bhṛśam

[SB 6.1.24]



*So he was engaged in maintaining the family. Everyone is engaged like that. Cats and dogs also do that. It is not very extraordinary thing. Sometimes they say, "It is my duty." Yes, it is duty, but the prime duty is to solve the real problems: how to stop mṛtyu, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. That we forget. Minor duties we take priority. That is the present situation. They do not know that there is life after death, and according to our karma, we are getting the next life. This morning we were discussing, Kṛṣṇa is always ready. Automatically it is going on. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. As you desire according to the contamination of different modes of material nature, immediately the body's ready. Immediately after death.



*So everyone is engaged in so-called duties but forget the real duty. This is called māyā. By the spell of māyā we forget what is the objective of life, what is the aim of life. This is called māyā. We are thinking this is our duty. No. Real duty in the human form of life is here is a chance whether you want to go to home to back to Godhead or again you want to go to hell, the repetition of birth and death. That is your choice. Otherwise why there are so many scriptures, religious system, all over the world? It is not only in India. According to the capacity of understanding, in every civilized human society there is a system called religion. It may be Hindu religion, Christian religion or Buddha religion-these are major religious systems-but the aim is how to make a solution of the problems of life. That... But because they do not seriously discuss nowadays the religious propensity, tendency of the human society decrease. It has become a also money*-making business. The priestly order, they think that "As others make some money by working hard, by professional or by doing some business or working, so we shall also earn some money by showing the church or temple or the mosque." They have taken it like that.

*Therefore people have lost faith in religion. This is the reason. Because those who are in charge of the religious department, the brāhmaṇas, those who are in charge of religion, the priestly order or the maulanis (?) or the brāhmaṇas, they're the same order, their duty is to keep people enlightened in the real mission of life. That is their duty. But if they're also doing the same thing, sense gratification, how long they can cheat others? Therefore people have lost faith in religion. This is the reason. But that is not good. Because the system of religion has become polluted, we should not give up religion. That is our prime duty. Karamayi tasya eka bhūṣesya (?). What is the difference between animal and man? The animal has no religion. They have no religion. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca, sāmānyam etat. This is very easy to understand. The dog is eating; I am eating. Dog is sleeping; I am sleeping. Dog is enjoying sex; I am also enjoying sex. Dog is also afraid; I am also afraid. So what is the difference between dog and me? The only difference is that dog has no religion; I've got religion. So if I give up religion, life of religiosity, then I am equal to dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ.

*So this Ajāmila, on account of bad association with prostitute, he lost his character and he became thief, cheater, somehow or other being punished. So in this way, while he was maintaining his children and family, then the time of death came. That will not wait, that "I have not finished my duty, family duty. Please wait few years more." "Oh, that is not possible." So kālo... Atyagāt. Kālo atyagāt mahān rājan aṣṭāśīti āyuṣaḥ samāḥ. He became very old, eighty*-eight years old, aṣṭaśīti. Aṣṭa means eight, aśīti means eighty-eight. In this way, aṣṭāśītyā āyuṣaḥ samāḥ. So at that time he had ten sons. Tasya pravayasaḥ putrāḥ. He begot so many children, number is ten. So putra, how many? Daśa, ten, ten children he had. Teṣāṁ tu yaḥ avamaḥ. Out of the ten sons, the youngest son, teṣāṁ tu yaḥ avamaḥ bālaḥ, the child, nārāyaṇaḥ nāmnā, he kept the name Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa dāsa, just like we give name to an initiate. So this is his great fortune. He gave the youngest son the name Nārāyaṇa. Naturally father, mother becomes affectionate to the youngest baby. So by way of calling the young child, he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa." This is very good system, that if you keep the name of your children Nārāyaṇa, Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, then you will get some chance to chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in India still the system is they keep some name which is with reference to Kṛṣṇa. He has got thousands of names, so you can keep one name so that you have the opportunity of repeating, chanting the holy name of the Lord.

*So bālaḥ nārāyaṇaḥ sakṛt, pitroḥ ca dayitaṁ bhṛśam. [break] So he was very dear to the parents, innocent child, kala*-bhāṣinī, talking broken languages, "mommy," "mama," that is very sweet. One becomes attached to this voice: "Oh, how my child is talking." Nirīkṣamāṇa tat līlām. And the child is walking, the child is doing something, coming to the mother, capturing. This līlā, this pastime, nirīkṣamāṇaḥ tan līlā mumude, it was very, very pleasing. Jaraṭho bhṛśam. In this way,

bhuñjānaḥ prapiban sa kalam

*bālakaṁ sneha*-yantritaḥ

bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho

na vedāgatam antakam



*He was very busy in enjoying the child's, how you would say, pastimes, and feeding him and taking him. In this way he was very much pleased, "My life is go like this." But the time of death, bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho na vedāgatam antakam. Antakam means the last day of life. Antakam means death. So death is called māyā. You are thinking, "Now I have arranged everything. Things are going very nicely. Now I'm very happy." But, all of a sudden, the death comes. That you cannot avoid. All of a sudden. That is... Death is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. What is that death? That death is Kṛṣṇa, ūrdhva. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā: mṛtyu sarva-haraś ca aham. That means death will come, your all asset, your so-called children, your family, your bank balance, your friends, your country, your leadership, your pride and everything will be taken. That will be taken by Kṛṣṇa. The atheist class who does not believe in God, he'll see God at the end of life when he cannot do anything. But before that, if he sees God, then his life is saved. Tattva dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. But that they'll not accept. "What is God? I don't care for... There is no God." "All right. Wait. God will come." (laughter) And at that time he said that the Hiraṇyakaśipu, he always defied the son's, the small child, five-years-old boy, his only fault was he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And even the father, what to speak of others. Therefore we say that "Don't think that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will go without any difficulty. There will be so many difficulties. Even your father will be angry." This is the history.



*So this father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, he defied God: "Who is God? I am God. Take my (indistinct)." The child said, "My dear father, you are not God." He would never address his father as "father." He addressed him "the best of the asuras." "My dear best of the asuras," tat sādhu manye asura*-vārya dehinām. After all, the relationship is father and son. So one day the father took him, "My dear son, what you have learned, the best thing, from your teachers? Tell me." "Yes, I'll tell you." "What is that?" Tat sādhu manye asura-varya. He never addressed "father." "O the best of the asuras." Asura-vārya means "the best of the asura." Tad sādhu manye: "I think that is very good thing." "What is that?" Tad sādhu manye asura-vārya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. "All these people, they're simply full of anxieties." That's a fact. Who's not full of anxieties? Those who are in this material world, who can say, "No, I have no anxiety"? That is not possible. Either you become President Nixon or in the street beggar, there is anxiety. At any moment danger will come. But they are busy.

*So the child said, "My dear best of the asuras, I think that is the best thing for the persons who have accepted this material body, asad grahā..." Why anxiety? The anxiety is because this material body. I am thinking of "I may be hot." Oh, what's that hot? The hot means body. The soul is never hot. The soul is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. That they do not know. They think this body, "I'm this body. I'll be hot, I'll die, I'll this," and so on and so many. Simply anxiety: "How I shall protect my body? How I shall protect my bodily relationship?" everything in connection with the body. Everything asat. The body's asat, perishable, temporary. So whatever you have got in relationship with this body-my country, my society, my bank balance, my money, my wife, children-everything in the body, they're also temporary. So they are very, very anxiety. Tat sādhu manye. So "I want to relieve them from this anxiety." What is that? Tad sādhu manye asura-vārya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. Then, what you advise? Hitvātmā-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. He's fallen in this dark region of black well, this family life. Hitvātmā-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. Gṛha, we can take this material world, even up to the sky, that is also another bondage, either in society, or in country, or in this body, or within this material universe-wherever you want*-that is andha-kūpa, dark well. So he advises, "Give up this darkness," hitvātmā-pātam , "because it will kill you." In this dark well you'll be killed. Just like, the dark well, we are put into the dark well, you'll be killed. Hitvātmā pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ, vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. That is the first... You should give up this dark well and go to the forest. Vanam. Come to Vṛndāvana. Vanam means forest. We have constructed very nice temple. Come there. And vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. Vanaṁ gato means to come to the forest.

So what is business? The business is to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll be free from all these things. Vanaṁ gato yad. Otherwise like monkey, descendants of monkey, if you go... The monkeys are in the forest, but they do not take shelter of Hari. So their simply going to the forest is no use. One has to take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśraya. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has made this Vṛndāvana. Anyone goes there, he gets shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, and his life becomes successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750709SB.CHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.25

-

Chicago, July 9, 1975



Nitāi: "The child's broken language and movements were very pleasing to Ajāmila, who was very attracted to the child. He always took care of the child and enjoyed his activities."



Prabhupāda: "Attached, attached to the child."



Nitāi: "...very much attached to the child."



Prabhupāda:



*sa baddha*-hṛdayas tasminn

*arbhake kala*-bhāṣiṇi

*nirīkṣamāṇas tal*-līlāṁ

mumude jaraṭho bhṛśam

[SB 6.1.25]



So this is called material attachment. He is very much attached to the child, but he does not know this will break. This attachment will not endure. When the child is grown up, neither the father will have so much attachment, nor the child will have so much... This is called material world. But the same attachment is there in the spiritual world. Just like mother Yaśodā. Mahārāja Nanda, he is attached to Kṛṣṇa. They are also enjoying the same way, but that enjoyment is never broken. That is the difference. This attachment between father and son or mother and son in this material world, it will not stay. It will break, today or tomorrow. That is the nature.



*Therefore in the Vedānta*-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Wherefrom this attachment has come unless originally it is there in the spiritual world? Originally, the same attachment... Just like we have got attachment for our country, nation. Then attachment between the servant and the master, attachment between friend and friend, attachment between father and son or mother and son, and attachment between husband and wife or the beloved and the lover-these five kinds of attachment are there in this material world. Śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. So the same attachment is there between Kṛṣṇa and devotee, either in the śānta... Some devotees have become there land, water, tree, flower. They are attached to Kṛṣṇa. Some devotees, they have become servants. They are attached to Kṛṣṇa. And some devotees, they have become cowherds boy, friendly. They are attached to Kṛṣṇa. And some devotees have become Kṛṣṇa's father, mother, uncle, elderly. They are attached to Kṛṣṇa. And some devotees, they have become gopīs, young girls, and love Kṛṣṇa, dance with Him rasa dance. So in this way Vṛndāvana means this attachment to Kṛṣṇa. Central point is Kṛṣṇa, but the varieties of attachment, they are the same. The only difference is that this attachment centering round Kṛṣṇa is never broken. If you love Kṛṣṇa as your child, just like Ajāmila is loving his youngest child so much, similarly, if you love Kṛṣṇa, then it will continue eternally. You will enjoy. It is enjoyment, ānanda. The father is seeing that the small child is trying to walk and trying to talk with the father in broken language, and he is observing very minutely, and mumude, he was enjoying. So you can have the idea of enjoyment. Not idea. Everyone has got practical experience. So if enjoyment continues perpetually, just imagine what is that life. And you are enjoying, but if it is broken halfway, then it is very painful.

*So if you want this permanent enjoyment, eternal... We are all eternal. We want everything eternally existing. If you want that, then you place your love in Kṛṣṇa. This is the difference. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means if you practice here, following the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana either as gopī or as cowherd boy or as flowers, trees, water... Vṛndāvana is not vacant. It is full of varieties. Without varieties, there is no enjoyment. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So the Māyāvādī philosophers, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi... There are philosophers. They are trying to negate these varieties. They are disgusted with the varieties. Everyone is disgusted. The same child, when he grows up, he becomes disobedient to the father and breaks. He goes away. The father is broken*-hearted, "Oh, I loved this child and he became so unfaithful? He has done so much harm and he has gone away?" Broken-hearted. Broken-heart... That you will have to experience in the material world.

*So the śūnyavādī and the nirviśeṣavādī, they want to make these varieties of enjoyment zero. That is called nirvāṇa philosophy, Buddha philosophy, that "These varieties of enjoyment is followed by painful condition, so you should make this variety zero." Just like sometimes one commits suicide. When these varieties become intolerable, social condition unbearable, then he commits suicide. So this śūnyavādī, māyāvādī, means it is spiritual suicide, because they have no information of the spiritual varieties. Anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. They do not know that these varieties of enjoyment can be executed with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and that will endure eternally, and we shall enjoy eternally. That they cannot understand. That is the difference between Vaiṣṇava and others. They, being disgusted... Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, Śaṅkara's philosophy, impersonalist, that "Take to Brahman. The so-called varieties of enjoyment in this material world is mithyā, false. So take to Brahman, merge into the Brahman, and remain there perpetually. Don't seek after these varieties of enjoyment."

But the thing is that we are living entities, and Kṛṣṇa is also the supreme living entity, and both of us after enjoyment... Because the same quality, we are qualitatively one. As Kṛṣṇa dances with the gopīs, we also try to dance in the ball dance, the same imitation. But the ball dance does not endure. We become frustrated, because it is only shadow. The reality is there. A shadow... Suppose you love a boy or girl. But if it is a shadow, it does not give you actual pleasure. Just like in your country, in the tailor's shop, there are so many beautiful women and beautiful man also, dressed, but nobody is attracted there because you know it is shadow. It is shadow. There is a very nice, beautiful girl in the window, and you pass on. You are not attracted, don't see even, because you know it is false, it is not reality. Again, suppose you love one girl, very nice, beautiful, and when she is dead, you are no more attached, because you know it is shadow. Why you are not attached to the same lover or beloved who is dead now? "No, no, here is your lover. Here is your beloved. Why don't you...?" "No, no, she is gone," or "He is gone." "Oh, where he is gone? He is lying there." (laughter)

*So when we are attached to the shadow, that is called ignorance, illusion. This is illusion. So here in the material world we are all engaged in shadow attachment. Therefore it is called illusion. Māyā*-mohitam. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. So this is going on, life after life. We are after shadow. Tejo-vāri-mṛṣā mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayaḥ. They, just like in the desert you will find exactly a vast water, pool, and the animal runs after the... It is called phantasmagoria? No?

Devotees: Mirage.



Prabhupāda: Mirage, yes. So running after it, running after it, the shadow is also going ahead and the animal also running. So there is no water. He becomes more and more exhausted. Then he dies. This is the example. So here in this material world we are running after the shadow enjoyment. And running, running, running, running, somebody is exhausted and dies. The karmīs, they have no knowledge. They have been described as mūḍhas. They are running after shadow, shadow, that's all. And the jñānīs, they understand that "This is shadow, mithyā." So shadow means there is reality also. Shadow means... Without reality, how there can be shadow? So they are searching after that reality. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. They understand, "This is shadow. Find out where is water." So the jñānīs are also in the darkness, because they do not know where is water. They simply know that because it is shadow therefore there must be somewhere the reality. This is jñānī, or yogi. And bhakta, they know where is real water. That's all. This is the difference. The karmīs are like animals. They are after shadow water, running, running, running, exhausted and finished. That is karmī. And jñānī, they understand that "This is shadow, but there is reality." But they do not know where is that reality. But a devotee knows that "This is shadow, but it is shadow of the reality," and they know where is that reality. Like this, this is the difference.



*So the kingdom of God is not devoid of varieties. There are the real varieties. Therefore ordinary man cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. They do not understand, because they have been described in the śāstra as aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: their core of heart is not yet cleansed. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. It is said in the śāstra, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. These jñānīs, they are thinking that "Now we have become liberated because we have learned to distinguish between the shadow and reality." So... But they cannot enjoy reality because they are śūnyavādī, nirviśeṣa. They cannot believe that here there is ball dance and there is Kṛṣṇa dancing with the gopīs*-it is the same thing. So how it is reality? This is their misfortune. They cannot judge that unless in Kṛṣṇa there is ball dance, how this ball dance can be shadow? The variety is there. But unless there is reality, how the shadow... We are after shadow. Shadow is not reality. But there must be reality. And if in the shadow there are so many varieties, so why not reality also full of varieties? The poor fund of knowledge of the Māyāvādī... They cannot understand even that unless in the shadow there are so much varieties, unless there is reality... And in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12) "The living entities and the Supreme Being, they are full of enjoyment." Why we are seeking enjoyment here in this mater...? Everyone is seeking after enjoyment. But they are seeking after false enjoyment.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give them idea of real enjoyment. If... So real enjoyment means that when you are uncontaminated with this material body. Spiritual enjoyment. Now we are trying to enjoy with this body. The body is senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. Bodily enjoy means the sense enjoyment. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ [Bg. 3.42]. In this way we have to understand that this body is false; therefore the bodily enjoyment is also false. That they cannot understand. This is their misfortune. Therefore one who does not understand in the beginning of spiritual life that "I am not this body. I am different from body..." Then his spiritual life begins. Otherwise, cats and dogs and everyone is engaged with this bodily enjoyment. So long we shall be captivated by this bodily enjoyment, we are in the groups of animals. That's all.

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



Animals. The whole world is going on in a way which is animal civilization. So if you want to be happy, you have to come to the spiritual platform, reality. That is wanted, thorough overhauling. They should know perfectly well that "We are after false enjoyment. We have to come to the platform of real enjoyment." Somebody is mistaking that "Real enjoyment, there cannot be any varieties. If there are varieties, then what is the difference between this and that?" So these varieties are different in quality. This is material quality, and that is spiritual quality. They have no distinction between matter and spirit. They cannot understand this exactly like cats and dogs.



So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not to stop your enjoyment but to bring you in the platform where you can enjoy eternally. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you want false enjoyment, then you remain in this material world in the darkness. But the Veda says, tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Don't keep yourself foolishly in darkness. Come to the light." So in order to come to the light, you have to follow certain restrictions. Just like you are diseased, and if you want to come to be healthy again, then you have to follow some restrictions, some injunctions. Doctor says, "You don't eat this. You don't do this. You don't do this." That is the way of going to the healthy condition of life. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. So a person, intelligent person, if he knows that "By observing certain rules and regulations prescribed by the physician, if I can become again healthy, so why not do this?" this is intelligence. And if you fall victims of this material enjoyment, without any idea of spiritual life, then you remain cats and dogs. That's all. But we must always know that the enjoyment, as Ajāmila... He is enjoying the movements of the child. The similar enjoyment is there in the spiritual world. Kṛṣṇa is the child. Kṛṣṇa never dies, and the father never dies, the mother never dies. Eternally there is enjoyment.

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*So we have to understand where is that spiritual world. That is... You have... Those who are reading Bhagavad*-gītā, you will find, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ: "There is another world." Bhāva means nature. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. Sanātana means eternal. The living entity is described as sanātanaḥ. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātana means eternal. And there is another nature, which is also described, sanātana. So when a living entity is constitutionally sanātana, if he wants to go back to that sanātana nature, that is called sanātana-dharma. It is called... You have heard the name sanātana-dharma. Sanātana-dharma means when the sanātana-jīva, living entity, tries go to back home... That is our real home. Here it is not home. We have taken America as home. How long it is your home, sir? Say, fifty years, hundred years, that's all. Not this kind of home. So that home is eternal. That is called, therefore, sanātana. Avyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ. Yasmin sarveṣu naśyatsu means when in the material world everything will be dissolved, annihilated, then it is said that the other nature... We have tried to describe in our Easy Journey to Other Planets, antimaterial, material and antimaterial. So that world, the spiritual world, there is if you go beyond this covering of the sky. You cannot touch even the ultimate covering even, Brahmaloka. We can see there is a covering round, what is called? Horizon. That is covering. This covering is covered by seven layers, same earth, water, fire, ether. One layer is ten times bigger than the other layer. If you can penetrate and go through, then there is the other world, spiritual world. So this is the position. We should be clever enough to understand the constitution of this material world, this material body, and the spirit soul, how the spirit soul can be liberated, how the spirit soul can go to the spiritual world and live there eternally. Everything is very nicely described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Everyone can go. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25].



So our endeavor should be, instead of being attached to this false enjoyment like cats and dogs, like the animal is running after the false water, the human life is meant for understanding that "The animal is running after false water. Why I shall go there? I am not animal." That is human life. If one, like the cats and dogs and deer, animal, runs after the false water and he dies, struggle for existence... "Survival of the fittest," they say. Nobody will survive. So there is no question. If you take the word in a real sense, the survival of the fittest, one who has understood that he is not this body, he is spirit soul, he is fit to survive. Otherwise, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], you will run after this false thing, and this body will be finished, and again you will have to accept another body, and again you will run after, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is going on. After false thing. Therefore the śāstra says that this human form of life is not meant for running after this false thing. They must understand what is reality. And how to attain that reality? Exactly in the same way: intelligent man knows that "This is my diseased condition. How to get out, achieve that healthy condition? Because I am eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20].

*So it is possible even by Ajāmila. That is the story we are now trying to understand. Simply we have to accept the association of realized soul. Then it is possible. There is no hopelessness. Anyone can attain the spiritual perfection. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya*-saṁvidaḥ. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended,

*sādhu*-saṅga, sādhu-saṅga-sarva-śāstre kaya

*lava*-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya

[Cc. Madhya 22.54]



*So our aim of life should be how to associate, how to keep association with devotee. Then everything will be possible. And as soon as we give up the association and we associate with māyā, then our life is finished. Always remember this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was enquired by a devotee that "What is the business of a devotee? How he will make progress without any difficulty?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said in two lines that asat*-saṅga-tyāga, ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra: [Cc. Madhya 22.87] "A Vaiṣṇava should always avoid asat, materialistic person, always avoid the association.' Asat-saṅga-tyāga. But matter is asat, not permanent. So those who are attached to the material world, they are called asat. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt, one should associate with sat, means those who are in spiritual advancement. They are called sat. And those who are interested in material advancement, they are called asat. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised, "Don't associate with persons who are trying to be advanced in material way." Asat-saṅga-tyāga, ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra. And how we can understand this person is materialist? That is stated next line: asat eka strī-saṅgī. Those who are too much attached in sex, they are asat, materialist, and Kṛṣṇa, those who are not devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you can find out these two persons, then you understand who is asat and who is sat. And sat-just the opposite. Sat means he is no more interested in material enjoyment. That is sat. And those who are interested in material enjoyment, they are asat.



So if we keep our association with persons who are materially interested, then we cannot make progress. If you keep our company always with persons who are spiritually interested, then you make progress.

Thank you very much. (end)



760525SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.25

-

Honolulu, May 25, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter One, verse number twenty-five. (recites the Sanskrit verse responsively with devotees.)



*sa baddha*-hṛdayas tasminn

*arbhake kala*-bhāṣiṇi

*nirīkṣamāṇas tal*-līlāṁ

mumude jaraṭho bhṛśam

[SB 6.1.25]



So the youngest child was very dear. Everyone sneha. Sneha is, another meaning of sneha is oil, liquid. So sneha means affection. So this sneha word is used that there is a liquid, how you say, goes to down. Liquid does not go up. Slow. Similarly, we have got some affection, the affection goes to the lowest. Therefore father and mother's affection generally goes to the youngest. So here also Ajāmila, although he's a cheat, he's a rogue, he's a thief, he has learned all the bad quality, but still the sneha, the affection, that is not lost. So this is natural. Similarly, we have got a natural feeling for Kṛṣṇa. If you study thoroughly, that is called meditation, that "Whom I love." Say for the first time, I love my body. If there is some danger I try to protect myself from the danger. That means I love my body. So the next question will be: "Then why don't you love a dead body?" Suppose your wife or husband, you love, because the husband and wife is in the body, dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. So I love the body because the spirit soul is there. This is right conclusion. Otherwise who is going to love a dead body? Nobody. Now if wife's husband has died, son has died, he's crying. You can say that "Why you are crying?" "Oh, my son is gone, my husband is gone." "Nobody gone. It is lying here." "No, no, no. He's not." So after death we understand that this dead body is neither my husband nor my son. Late experience. But in the beginning there is no such experience. That is called illusion. He's understanding that this dead body is not neither my father, nor my husband, nor my son. He's different from. That is practical example. Otherwise why not take the dead body of your husband or son and keep it? No. That is not possible.



*So it is clear that the soul is different from the body. But because we are fools and rascals, we learn it after death. That is foolishness. Not in the beginning. In the beginning the Bhagavad*-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa says, that asmin dehe, "Within this body, the soul is there." "No, no. I don't believe." Dull brain cannot understand. But after death, he sees, "Yes. The body's not my son. The body's not my husband." So that is foolishness. The foolish person understands late, and the intelligent person understands very quickly. That is the difference. So I love my body. I love my husband's body, my wife's body. Why? The real husband, wife or son is within the body. Therefore we love. Then the conclusion is that the soul is important more than the body. Then the question will be that "Why you love the soul?" Then the answer will be "Because the soul is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. So ultimately the conclusion is that I love Kṛṣṇa and, because the soul is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore I love the soul. And because the soul loves within this body, therefore I love... There is no difficulty to understand. But so long one is under illusion, he's under the bodily concept of life. Therefore śāstra says that one who is in the bodily concept of life, he's animal. He's animal.

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*svā*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go*-kharaḥ. Go means cow and kharaḥ means ass. I repeatedly say this. So unless we understand that I and you, we are not this body, there is no question of spiritual understanding or spiritual education.



So here the Ajāmila, because, although he was a brāhmaṇa, but due to association of a prostitute, he lost everything. This is the version. We have already studied, that,

kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid

*dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ

*nāmnā naṣṭa*-sad-ācāro

*dāsyāḥ saṁsarga*-dūṣitaḥ



*Sad-ācāra. Sad-ācāra, just like we are teaching sad-ācāra, rise early in the morning, taking a bath, change your cloth, wash your mouth, and then go to the Deity room and have maṅgala arotika, then study, so many, so many..., simply sad-ācāra. Sad-ācāra means, sat means "that will exist," and ācāra means "behavior." Sad-ācāra So here it is said that Ajamila, he became the husband of a prostitute. It is not the sastric injunction. You can become husband, but not the husband of a prostitute. Then your life is finished. Naṣṭa sad-ācāra. You will be lost all... Therefore so much stress is given that wife should be chaste and husband should be very well behaved, then life will be successful. Arjuna argued with Kṛṣṇa that "You're asking me to kill my brothers and relatives on the other side, so don't You think that if I kill them, their wives will be widowed and they'll be polluted? And as soon as they'll be polluted, there will be varṇa*-saṅkara." Varṇa-saṅkara, the practical example of varṇa-saṅkara is the hippies in your country: no caste, no creed, neither useful for the material world, neither useful for the spiritual. That is called varṇa-saṅkara. Then he said, "My...," Arjuna... Strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkara (indistinct). "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are asking me to kill my... There will be widow, and they'll be polluted, and there'll be varṇa-saṅkara, and (indistinct), and when there'll be varṇa-saṅkara, then the whole world will be hell. It will be no more suitable for habitation of gentlemen. Finished."



*Therefore in the Vedic civilization two things are very much stressed: to teach the man from childhood how to become expert in sad-ācāra, and woman trained up how to become chaste. So this chaste woman and this sad-ācāra, brāhmaṇa, ideal is brāhmaṇa, he'll become married. Then there will be peace, there will be progress, there will be peace in the society, peace in the family. There is a poetry in English, "Society, friendship and love, divine (indistinct)." But that society is not this society. If we become husband of the prostitute, no, that is not possible. Then sad-ācāra will be finished. Nāmnā sad-ācāra. Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga*-dūṣitaḥ: as soon as you become associated with prostitute, then everything will be lost. Sad-ācāra means your progress in spiritual life is lost. Therefore we are stressing so much on the four avoidances: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This is the way. If you are serious... But if you take it as a fashion, that is another thing. But if you take it seriously to progress, then these things will done. This is the basic principle of spiritual progress. Otherwise we shall learn, bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ, bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir... Aśuci, aśuci. Aśuci means unclean. Spiritual life means purification. So if you purify and again become unclean, that we have discussed hasti-snāna, the elephant. Elephant takes bath very nicely, and as soon as come on the shore, take some dust and throw on... Kuñjara śaucavat. Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "What is this cleaning?"

*But without cleaning, your life is spoiled. If you don't clean your life, then you'll have to accept another body according to karma. We have to accept that the whole human mission is to stop this repetition of birth... They do not know. There is no science, there is no philosophy, there is no education throughout the whole world. But the aim of life is to stop these four things: birth, death, old age and disease. They cannot think of. How it can be stopped? They cannot think of. They're trying the different way*-contraceptive method of killing the child. That is not how to stop this. No. Nature's law is so strong that if you kill the child in the womb then you'll be also killed. You'll be also killed. Tit for tat. There is no escape. "Life for life," just like in the law. You cannot do that. So this is very important things to understand. You are thinking very free but no, there is: prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Exactly. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. Just like if you contaminate some disease, you must suffer from it. That is natural law. You cannot avoid. There is no escape. So similarly, this spiritual life, this human life is a chance that you learn how to purify yourself. That is human life. And if you don't purify yourself, you remain impure without any endeavor, then what is the difference between you and cats and dogs? There's no difference.

*So, kuṭumbam aśucir yāyatām āsa. So in that aśuci bhṛta āsa, the sneha is there. This Ajāmila, although became the rogue number one, but the affection, natural, that is there. Affection is there. Sa baddha-hṛdayas tasminn arbhake kala-bhāṣiṇi. Attract. The child is talking in broken language*-that is very pleasing, pleasing to everyone, especially the parents. So nirīkṣamāṇas tal-līlām. And he's walking, or he's crawling, he's coming to the father, coming to the mother... These things are very attractive, and we become more and more attracted, and we forget our real business. The real business we should always remember. These things are natural. It is very good, be affectionate to your children. But don't forget your real business. Otherwise this kind of affection is there in cats and dogs also. Cats and dogs you'll find they carry the cat, the kitties. What is called, kitties?

Devotee: Kittens.



*Prabhupāda: ...on the mouth. They have no hands. And they give protection to the... [break] ...so one thing is for these kitties and one thing is for the... Similarly, Nṛsiṁhadeva*-one thing for the Hiraṇyakaśipu and one thing for Prahlāda. So that is not God's discrimination, but that is natural. That is natural. He states. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu: [Bg. 9.29] "I'm equal to everyone." Otherwise if He's not equal to everyone, how He can be God? If He's partial to somebody and He's affectionate to some... No. That is not God's foolishness. God is equal to everyone. Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ: "Nobody is My enemy and nobody is My friend, but still," ye tu bhajanti māṁ bhaktyā teṣu te mayi, "but anyone who is devotee, I take special care for Him." The same thing that the cat carries in the mouth, the cat as well as the mouse. The mouse, for mouse it is death, and for the cat it is pleasure. Similarly, Hiraṇyakaśipu, when he's captured by Nṛsiṁhadeva, He's death. Tava nakha. Kara-kamale nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgaṁ dalita hiraṇ... Immediately. Finished. The same hand on the head of Prahlāda Mahārāja, "My dear child, be blessed," the same hand. This is the position.



*So we shall try to purify ourselves from sinful activity so that Prahlāda Mahā..., Nṛsiṁhadeva may keep His hand on our..., bless head. That is wanted. Then our life is successful. Otherwise nature will not excuse. Mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Hiraṇyakaśipu will be killed. A demon should be... That is true business of Kṛṣṇa. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8], to kill the demons. Of course, any demon killed by Kṛṣṇa, he also gets salvation. But if the demon gets salvation being killed, but just imagine what is the position of devotees to whom Kṛṣṇa is so affectionate. Just imagine what is his position. And His name is Bhakta-vatsala. Kṛṣṇa's name is "very much affectionate to the devotee." So you have taken Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Take it seriously. Follow the rules and regulations. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you all protection. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ pranaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. If you are sincere devotee... It is very easy thing to become devotee. Simply four things: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four... A child can, they are learning. They're also offering a flower, mad-yājī. This is worship. If a child can do it, you cannot do it? What is the difficulty? If you offer a flower to the Deity, if you offer your obeisances... The child, it's learning. Don't think it is knowing for nothing. Everything is calculated, "Ah, here is this child. He is offering obeisances." Credit. "He's offering flower." Credit. (laughter) Yes. From his childhood, if one becomes, simply deposits credit, then someday it will be a big balance, a good bank balance. So therefore this institution means to give everyone the chance to do these four things: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. And Kṛṣṇa says maṁ evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ: [Bg. 18.65] "Without any doubt, simply by doing these four things, you'll come back to Me." So what is the difficulty? Live properly and be happy.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





750711SB.CHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.26

-

Chicago, July 11, 1975



Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya (repeats twice with devotees responding).



bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan

*bālakaṁ sneha*-yantritaḥ

bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho

na vedāgatam antakam

[SB 6.1.26]



*Bhuñjāna, by raising him very affectionately, by giving him all necessities of life, bhuñjānaḥ prapiban, all kinds of drinks, milk, fruit juice, khādan, solid food... There are four kinds of foodstuff: something we chew, something we swallow, something we lick up, and something we drink. So everything was being supplied, bālakam, to that small boy. Every mother, every father does so. It is very natural. Sneha*-yantritaḥ. Why do they do so? That is God's arrangement. If the father and mother hasn't got such affection, then the helpless child... In the beginning there is no other means of living. Even cats and dogs, even tigers, they also take care. So this is not very extraordinary thing, that human being has got affection. That affection is there even in tiger. So you are not very in that way advanced. That is natural. That kind of affection for the small child, you will find in cats and dogs and tigers, even snake. These things are not extraordinary thing. They are very much proud, "How I have to take care of my children." So that is taken care by other animals also. Bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan bālakaṁ sneha-yantritaḥ, bhojayan pāyayan mūḍhaḥ. In spite of so much affection and taking care of the children, he is addressed here, mūḍha. Just see. (laughs) They are very much proud of being affectionate, but śāstra says, "You are rascal, that's all." Mūḍha. Bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho na veda āgatam antakam. He could not understand that "I am very busy in raising my child, but here, back side, there is death. Death is waiting to scramble me."



*So not only in these activities, in every activity we are very busy with material activities. And we do not know that on my back side death is standing. He will take everything, what I have got. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham. The death is also Kṛṣṇa. He said, aham, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham: "I am death. You cannot see God. You are very much proud of your eyes. Now you see I have come. I will take away everything, what have you got. Now you protect yourself and your property, your skyscraper building, everything. Now you protect." So therefore mūḍha. He does not know how to protect things, but he is creating things. That is called mūḍha. Just like I am collecting lakhs and millions of money, but next moment there is standing somebody, he will take away. So that I do not know, that one man is waiting. I am collecting. There was a caricature picture when India was struggling for independence. So the Gandhi's picture, Gandhi was fishing with the tackle, and Jinnah was standing behind with a knife and plate, that "Let this rascal struggle for independence, and as soon as (sic:) he's get, I will take share and go away, Pakistan." Actually he did so. He never went to jail, but he took the share and made Pakistan. So Gandhi, therefore, was not in favor of partition. But he had to do, accept it. Because the Britishers were very intelligent, that "Let us divide it so that India may not become a strong power." So that still, it is going on, the animosity between Pakistan and Hindustan. It is British plan. That is politics.

So similar plan is always there, that we are struggling for existence and accumulating so many things. Just like you have got this nice city, Chicago. Not only Chicago; *there are many others in America. But the people are not thinking that "How long I shall remain American and enjoy this? Maybe fifty years, twenty*-five years or utmost hundred years. But everything will be taken-my American citizenship, my body, my wealth-everything will be taken by death. So what insurance I am doing for that purpose, that it will not be taken, I shall enjoy it?" Therefore mūḍha. There is reason why they are called mūḍhas, rascals. They do not know their actual interest. Everyone, not only you, everyone, the whole material world, they do not know what is is actual interest. Everyone should be self-interested. That is very good. But the fools, rascals, do not know what is his actual self-interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Svārtha-gatim means the self-interest. Svārtha. Sva means own, and artha means interest. He does not know. Therefore he is mūḍha. He does not know his self-interest. It is very good that you become self-interested, but if you do not know what is your self-interest, then you are a mūḍha.

*So actually, that is the position of all living entities within this material world. Encaged by māyā, illusion, they have forgotten what is the self-interest. The self-interest is: go back to home, back to Godhead. That is real-self interest. So every intelligent man should first of all see to his self-interest, how to become free from this repetition of birth and death and go back to home, back to God. That is self-interest. And if we do not know, we do not execute in that way*-that means Kṛṣṇa consciousness-then however we may be philanthropist, affectionate, very good economist, very good philosopher, everything is nonsense, mūḍha. That is the statement, that we should not remain mūḍha; *we should become intelligent and see to our self*-interest, and that is the success of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760526SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.26

-

Honolulu, May 26, 1976



*Prabhupāda: So, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, First Chapter, text number twenty-six. (chants verse responsively with devotees)



bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan

*bālakaṁ sneha*-yantritaḥ

bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho

na vedāgatam antakam

[SB 6.1.26]



*So this is the general way of life. Everyone is engaged in these material activities, and the basic principle of material activity is gṛhastha, family life. Family life, according to Vedic system, or anywhere, is responsible life to maintain the wife, children. Everyone is engaged. They think this is the only duty. "To maintain the family, that is my duty. As comfortably as possible. That is my duty." One does not think that this kind of duty is performed even by animals. They have got also children, and they feed. What is the difference? Therefore here the word used is mūḍha. Mūḍha means ass. One who is engaged in such duties, bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan. Prapiban. Prapiban means drinking, and bhuñjānaḥ means eating. While eating, while drinking, khādan, while chewing, carva casya raja preya (?). There are four kinds of eatables. Sometimes we chew, sometimes we lick up, (Sanskrit) sometimes we swallow, and sometimes we drink. So there are four kinds of foodstuff. Therefore we sing catuḥ vidhā śrī*-bhagavat-prasādāt. Catuḥ vidhā means four kinds. So we offer to the Deities so many foodstuffs within these four categories. Something is chewed, something is licked up, something is swallowed. In that way.



*So bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan bālakaṁ sneha*-yantritaḥ. The father and mother takes care of the children, how to give them foodstuffs. We have seen mother Yaśodā is feeding Kṛṣṇa. Same thing. This is the difference. We are feeding ordinary child, which is done by cats and dogs also, but mother Yaśodā is feeding Kṛṣṇa. The same process. The process there is no difference, but one is the Kṛṣṇa center and other is whimsical center. That is the difference. When it is Kṛṣṇa-centered, then it is spiritual, and when it is whimsical centered, then it is material. There is no difference between material... This is the difference. There is... Just like lusty desires and love, pure love. What is the difference between lusty desires and pure love? Here we are mixing, man and woman, mixing with lusty desires, and Kṛṣṇa is also mixing with the gopīs. Superficially they look the same thing. Yet what is the difference? So this difference has been explained by the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that what is the difference between lusty desires and love? That has been explained. He has said, ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā-tāre bali 'kāma' [Cc. Ādi 4.165], "When I want to satisfy my senses, that is kāma." But kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma, "And when we want to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, then it is love, prema." That is the difference. Here in this material world there is no love because the man and woman, they have no idea that "I mix with the man, the man who satisfies desires with me." No. "I will satisfy my desires." This is the basic principle. The man is thinking that "Mixing with this woman, I'll satisfy my sense desire," and woman is thinking that "By mixing with this man, I shall satisfy my desire." Therefore it is very prominent in the Western countries, as soon as there is difficulty in personal sense gratification, immediately divorce. This is the psychological, why so many divorces in this country. The root cause is that "As soon as I don't find satisfaction, then I don't want." That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: dāṁ-patyaṁ ratim eva hi. In this age, husband and wife means sex satisfaction, personal. There is no question of that "We shall live together; we shall satisfy Kṛṣṇa by being trained up how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't do anything for your personal sense gratification. Do everything for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification.

*Just like the gopīs, they used to go to Kṛṣṇa. These gopīs, they were married, because in India twelve years, thirteen years girls are married still. I've told many incidences. So from childhood they are friends, small children, but the girls are married early, so they go to their husband's place, thirteen, fourteen years. But because they had, they prayed to Kātyāyanī when they're not married, they prayed to Kātyāyanī that "Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful. Please give me Kṛṣṇa as my husband." Kṛṣṇa is all*-attractive, so Kṛṣṇa fulfilled their desire, and that is vastrāṇām. Of course, these things are not to be publicly discussed, but still you are little interested in Kṛṣṇa. So all the gopīs, girls, before their marriage, they prayed to Kātyāyanī that "You give me Kṛṣṇa as my husband." So Kṛṣṇa..., it is not possible socially, but Kṛṣṇa makes such a plan that He accepted every one of them as His wife. That is vastrana-līlā. Vastrana-līlā, the girls were taking bath in the Yamunā, keeping their clothing, garments, on the shore. Still in India, especially in Punjab, the practice is that where the women take bath, strictly no man can go there because they put their clothings on the shore and they dip into the water naked. So this was being done, and Kṛṣṇa took their clothings and got up on the tree. So they begged Kṛṣṇa, their friend, "Kṛṣṇa, this is very bad. Why You have taken away our..." "No, you beg the clothes with folded hands, then I shall give you." (laughter) So you have read this story, you do not require, but the idea is that "You wanted Me, all of you, as your husband. Now I'm fulfilling your desire. I'm seeing you naked." Because a woman can be naked only before the husband. No one else. This is chastity. A woman cannot be naked anywhere, just like in the club, naked dance. This is most abominable. Woman can be naked only before the husband. [break]

*...brāhmaṇa. That will be explained. He was brāhmaṇa. He was well trained as a brāhmaṇa, but one day while he was coming home with the ingredients of worshiping the Deity, he saw one śūdra embracing another śūdra girl, embracing, kissing, because they have no shame. No brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya will do that. It is not etiquette. But because a śūdra, now it is everywhere we can see, embracing, kissing, open to everyone. So young man, seeing this, how he can restrain, check his lusty desire? It is not possible. Kali*-yuga is so fallen. If a young man sees another young man he's enjoying with another young girl, then naturally his lusty desires increases. So these things are forbidden therefore. Still in some places it is forbidden that you cannot... India this is strictly forbidden. There is no such thing in the public street a young man can embrace or kiss. No. That is not possible. Then it will be criminal. Neither a young boy can dare to speak with another young girl on the street. Still it is criminal. She'll begin immediately protest that is incivility.

*So the whole civilization is how to restrict this sex desire. Because... Why restriction? Because the sex desire, sex life, will keep him within this material world in different bodies, either as human being or as animal or as bird or as insect*-so long there will be this sex desire. To become free, to become liberated means to become liberated from sex desire. That's all. This is the basic principle. Not that this tantra-yoga, how to increase sex desires. This is not civilization. Civilization is how to cut down sex desire and ultimately become free, paramahaṁsa. That is civilization according to Vedic culture. Therefore the training from the very beginning, brahmacārī. Brahmacārī is instructed in such a way that he'll remain brahmacārī throughout the whole life. A brahmacārī is open to accept either a gṛhastha āśrama or vānaprastha āśrama or sannyāsa āśrama, but the guru advises, "Better remain all through brahmacārī. No botheration." So he's trained properly, but still if he has desire, then he's allowed to become a gṛhastha. That is also for a limited time. The whole plan is how to stop, because as soon as here, that Ajāmila, he was not properly married, he became the husband of a prostitute. But there are ten children, but he's entangled with the family, with children, and now he's engaged bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan bālakaṁ sneha-yantritaḥ, one after another. First of all sex desire, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam [SB 5.5.8].

*This world, what is this world, material world? The material means sex desire. That's all. The woman is hunting after man, and the man is hunting after woman. Either in human society or bird society or beast society or dog society or cat society, the principle is sex. And the human society means to understand this, that what is the basic principle of material life. If we understand it is sex, therefore we have to cut down the sex desire gradually by becoming brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This is the process. Otherwise, if I do not know what is the cause of my material bondage, then how we can take remedy? This is the cause, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī*-bhāvam etam. The desire is there. As soon as one is grown up, reaching youthful time, the sex desire is very strong, very strong. So they unite, a man..., a boy finds out a girl, a girl finds out a boy. They unite, and there is sex, and as soon as there is sex then there is bondage. Immediately. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etaṁ tayor mitha. As soon as they unite, then the relation becomes very tight, very strong. Then, as soon as one is married, or unmarried-generally speaking married-then he wants apartment. Ato gṛha. Gṛha means apartment. So long he remains brahmacārī there is no need of apartment. He can dine right out on the street. (laughter) But as soon as they're joined together, immediately apartment, gṛha. Then how to maintain the apartment? Then he must have land. Because formerly there was no industry. Everyone must produce his own food by tilling the field. So to produce food he must have some land. So land was available, still available. One can produce. But they have left that process of livelihood. They are taking to industry.

*So ato gṛha. First of all apartment, then kṣetra. Kṣetra means agricultural land. Then some capital. Ato gṛha-kṣetra. Then as soon as they're married they, at least woman, wants some child, children. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-suta-āpta. After, if he has got very nice apartment and good condition of living, then he'll invite some friends, "Please come and see our happily living." (laughter) And one after another-bondage. One after another. Because if you're opulent, you have to show your friends. Otherwise what is your opulence? If your friends do not come and say, "Oh, you're so wonderful. (laughter) Yes. You have got such a nice wife, nice apartment. Wonderful!" Because in the Kali-yuga this is wonderful. Everything is mentioned in śāstra. Dakṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam. If one can maintain one wife and some children, ah, he's most expert. (laughs) Forget Kṛṣṇa. Here is expert. (laughter) Daksa means expert. "Oh, he's expert. How he's maintaining." When I first came, I met one elderly lady. She had a son. So, as Indian I asked, "Oh, why don't you get your son married?" She replied, "Oh, I have no objection. If he can maintain a wife I have no objection." That means to maintain a wife is a very big job in your country. I've seen it. (laughter) Of course, when we talk we must talk freely. (laughter) That is a fact. (laughter) But formerly, in our father's age, they used to come to foreign countries and they thought it, it is a great laugh to possess one white wife. Yes, they are thinking like that. So all the students who used to come to England for higher studies, naturally he'd carry one white elephant. (laughter) They used to say-it is not my coined words*-they used to say, "Oh, to maintain European wife, it is like maintaining white elephant." So anyway, you have got so many white elephants. (laughter)

*So this is the way, ato gṛha*-kṣetra-suta-āpta, friends. Arjuna was lamenting, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are asking me to fight with my relatives. Then suppose I become victorious and they're killed. Then whom I shall show the kingdom?" That was his objection. (laughter) "If everyone is killed on the other side, my friends and relatives, and suppose I become victorious, then whom I shall show my prosperity?" So āpta, suta, ato gṛha-kṣetra-suta-āpta and vitta and money. It is one after another. First wife, then apartment, then field for agriculture, then friends, then children, then money, bank balance. In this way he does not know he's becoming entangled more and more. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-suta-āpta-vittaiḥ, janasya moho 'yam. He's thinking that "Now everything is settled up; I am very happy." And next day death comes and kicks him out: "Get out!" That he does not understand. That he does not understand, that "Any moment death can come and kick me out of all this arrangement." That is ignorance. That is foolishness.

*So here, bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho na veda āgatam antakam. He was eighty-eight years old. So he was busy in maintaining the family, children, everything. But he never thought that "Death will come all of a sudden without waiting for my settle everything." That is the eighth wonder. This question was asked by Dharmarāja to Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja: "What are the wonders, the most wonderful wonders? What is that?" So he said, "This is the most wonderful thing." "What is that?" Ahany ahani gacchanti lokāni yama-mandiram. Every moment we see that someone is going to the court of Yamaraja*-that means death. That is our experience, everything. Ahany ahani lokāni gacchanti yama-mandiraṁ śeṣāḥ sthitam icchanti. Śeṣāḥ, who is not yet dead, he's still alive, he thinks, "I will never die. My dear friend is dying. That's all right. But I'll... Your father is dead. No, still I will be..." Śeṣāḥ sthitam icchanti kim aścaryam ataḥ param. This is the most wonderful thing that we have experience, that "My father is dead, my father's father is dead, so I shall also be die, my sons will die." Well, who will stay? Well, what is the struggle for existence, survival of the fittest? He never thinks of it. This is the eighth wonder.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





750712SB.PHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.26-27

-

Philadelphia, July 12, 1975



Prabhupāda:



sa evaṁ vartamāno 'jño

*mṛtyu*-kāla upasthite

matiṁ cakāra tanaye

bāle nārāyaṇāhvaye

[SB 6.1.27]



So vartamāna, everyone is situated under certain condition. This is material life. I am situated under certain consciousness, you are situated in certain consciousness, everyone. According to the modes of nature, we have got different conception of life and different consciousness. That is called material life. All of us, we are sitting here. Every one of us has got a different consciousness. Generally, it is meant for sense gratification. Material life means everyone is planning, "I shall live like this. I shall acquire money like this. I shall enjoy like this." Everyone has got a program.



So Ajāmila also had a program. What was his program? His program was, as he is very much attached to his youngest child and whole attention was there, how the child is moving, how the child is eating, how the child is talking, and sometimes he was calling, he was feeding, so his whole mind was absorbed with the activities of the child. In the previous verse we have already discussed:

bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan

*bālakaṁ sneha*-yantritaḥ

bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho

na vedāgatam antakam

[SB 6.1.26]



*Not only Ajāmila, everyone, they are absorbed in certain type of consciousness. And what is due to it? How the consciousness develops? It is said, sneha*-yantritaḥ. Sneha means affection. "By the..., affected by the machine which is called affection." So everyone is affected by this machine. This machine... This body is a machine. And it is being worked by the nature. And direction is coming from the Supreme Lord. We wanted to enjoy a certain way and Kṛṣṇa has given us a certain type of body, yantra. Just like you have got different makes of motorcar. You want. Somebody wants. I want Buick car. Somebody says, "I want Chevrolet," some, "Ford." They are ready. Similarly, our body is also like that. Somebody is Ford, somebody is Chevrolet, somebody is Buick, and Kṛṣṇa has given us the chance, "You wanted this kind of car or body. You sit down and enjoy." This is our material position. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. We forget. After changing the body, we forget what I desired and why I have got this kind of body. But Kṛṣṇa, He is situated within your heart. He does not forget. He gives you. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. You wanted this kind of body: you get it. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. If somebody wanted a body so that he can eat everything, so Kṛṣṇa gives him the body of a pig, so it can eat even stool. And if somebody wanted a body that "I shall dance with Kṛṣṇa," then he gets that body. Now, it is up to you to decide whether you are going to get a body which will be able to dance with Kṛṣṇa, to talk with Kṛṣṇa, to play with Kṛṣṇa. You can get it. And if you want a body how to eat stool, urine, you will get it. So we have to decide, this human form of life. But if you have no information that "What kind of body I am going to get next," if you don't believe... You believe or not believe, it doesn't matter. The nature's law will act. If you say, "I don't believe in the next life," you may say like that, but nature's law will act. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. As you are acting, according to that, you are preparing your next body. So after death-after death means when this body is finished-then you get another body immediately, because you have already made the field work, what kind of body you will get.



So this man, Ajāmila, was engaged in taking care of his child very nicely, and the whole mind was absorbed in the child. So... (aside:) Don't disturb. Therefore he has been described as mūḍha. Here it is said, bhojayan pāyayan mūḍhaḥ. We are forgetting that some day is coming. That is ahead. That is called mṛtyu, death. We forget that. This is our imperfectness. So this man forgot that he was very busy as affectionate father or affectionate husband. Or anything. I have got so many relationship. As an affectionate friend or envious enemy, we have got some relationship. With everyone with this world we have got some. Either it may be affectionate or envy; it doesn't matter. So in this way we are living forgetting that death is ahead. Therefore we are mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal, ass, who does not know what is actual interest. Just like ass. Ass, the... Mūḍha means ass. The ass does not know his own interest. We have seen that ass is loaded with three tons of cloth by the washerman, and he cannot go; still, he has to do it. And he does (not) know that "I am loading so many tons of cloth on my back, and what interest I have got with it? Not a single cloth belongs to me." So the ass has no such sense. Ass means he has no such sense. He is thinking, "It is my duty. To load upon me so much clothing, it is my duty." Why it is duty? Now, "Because the washerman gives you grass." So he has no sense that "Grass I can get anywhere. Why I have taken this duty?" This is the... Everyone is anxious about his duty. Somebody is politician, somebody is householder, somebody is something else. Because he has taken up some false duty and working hard for it, therefore he is an ass. He is forgetting his real business. Real business is that death will come. It will not avoid me. Everyone says, "As sure as death." Now, before death, I have to act in such a way that I may have a position in Vaikuṇṭha, in Vṛndāvana, and I may have permanent life to live with Kṛṣṇa. This is our real duty.

*But we do not know that. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. We are in this conditioned state of life because we are separated from our original person, Kṛṣṇa. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have forgotten this. We are thinking we are part and parcel of America or India. This is called illusion. They are interested... Somebody is interested in his country; *somebody is interested in his society or family. We have created so many things, duty. Therefore śāstra says that "These rascals do not know what is his actual self*-interest." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā [SB 7.5.31]. He is hoping something which will never be fulfilled. Therefore he is rascal. We are trying to adjust things within this material world to become happy, but the rascal does not know that so long he will remain in this material world, there is no question of happiness. That is rascaldom.

*Kṛṣṇa says that this place is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This material world, where we are now living under different change of body one after another, it is duḥkhālayam. Why I have to change my body? Why not... I am permanent. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Therefore we have to learn, we have to be educated, we have to receive knowledge from the perfect. And Kṛṣṇa personally, the Supreme Perfect Person, is giving you knowledge. And if we are so unfortunate that we do not take the perfect knowledge-we concoct, we speculate, we create our own idea-then it is to be understood that durāśayā. We are thinking, "I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in this..." Nothing. You shall never be happy*-this is perfect instruction-unless you go back to home, back to Godhead. Just like a mad boy, he has forsaken his father. His father is rich man, everything is there, but he has become hippie. So similarly, we are also like that. Our father is Kṛṣṇa. We can live there very comfortably without any botheration, without endeavor for earning money, but we have decided that we shall live here in this material world. This is called ass. This is the... Therefore mūḍha. We do not know what is our self-interest. And we are hoping against hope, "I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in this way." Therefore this word is used, mūḍha. They do not know what is actually his happiness, and he is trying one chapter, another, one chapter, another, "Now I will be happy." The ass. The ass. Sometimes the washerman sits on his back and takes a bunch of grass and puts in front of the ass, and the ass wants to take the grass. But as he moving forward, the grass is also moving forward. (laughter) And he thinks, "Just one step forward, I shall get the grass." But because he is ass, he does not know that "The grass is situated in such a way that I may go on for millions of years; still, I will not get the happi..." This is ass. He does not come to his senses that "For millions and trillions of years I may try to be happy in this material world. I will never be happy."

Therefore we have to take the knowledge from the guru who knows things. Therefore guru is worshiped,

*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*The politician or, what is called, leaders, andha, they will promise you that "You will be happy in this way. You give me vote, and I shall bring heaven for you, and let me become minister. That is... You simply wait, and as soon as I become a minister and president, I will give you such and such benefit." So you select Mr. Nixon, and again you become disappointed. Then we request, "Mr. Nixon, you get out." And we accept another fool. This is going on. This is going... But śāstra says you will not be getting right information in that way. These foolish men, they will promise you something, and he is unable to make you happy. You will be again disappointed, again regret. Then what is..., wherefrom I shall get the right information? That Vedas says, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "If you want right information, then go to the guru." And who is guru? That Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He says, "You just become on My order." Guru means who carries the order of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. Or who is Kṛṣṇa's servant, that is guru. Nobody can become guru unless he carries the order of the Supreme. Therefore you will find... Because every one of us is ass, we do not know what is our self-interest, and somebody comes, "I am guru." "How you become guru?" "No, I am self-perfected. I don't require to read any book. I have come to bless you." (laughter) And the foolish rascals, they do not know, "How you can become guru?" If he does not follow the śāstra or the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa, how he can become? But they accept, guru.



*So this kind of guru is going on. But you should know, guru means who carries the order of the Supreme Lord. That is guru. Any rascal who manufactures some idea is not guru. Immediately kick him out, immediately, that "This is a rascal. This is not a guru." Guru is here, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Guru means the faithful servant of God. That is guru. So you have to first of all test that "Are you faithful servant of God?" If he says, "No, I am God," oh, kick him on his face immediately. (laughter) Kick him immediately, that "You are rascal. You have come to cheat us." Because test is there that guru means faithful servant of God, simple. You don't require large definition, what is guru. So Vedic knowledge gives you indication that tad*-vijñānārtham. If you want to know the science of spiritual life, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12], you must approach guru. And who is guru? Guru means who is the faithful servant of God. Very simple.

*So this is the position. Without guru, if he is manufacturing his way of life, then he is mūḍha, rascal. Therefore it is said, mūḍha. He was thinking, "I am so affectionate father. I am taking care of my son, little son. In all respect I am feeding him, I am patting him, and so many things I am... I am very faithful and very honest father." But śāstra says, "Here is a mūḍha, rascal." You see here. It says, bhojayan pāyayan mūḍhaḥ. Why he is mūḍha? Na vedāgatam antakam. He does not say, does not know, that "Behind me, the death is awaiting. He has come to take me." Now, "How your affection for your so*-called son and society and family and nation will save you? Here is death." That he cannot answer. He cannot answer that death is there. So we shall be prepared. That is human life. We must always know that "There is death behind me." At any moment he can capture my neck and take it away. That's a fact. Is there any guarantee that you shall live hundred years? No. Even just after few seconds, if you go to the street, you may immediately meet death. There may be heart failure. There may be motor accident. There may be something, something. So to live is wonderful. To die is not wonderful. Because you are meant for death. As soon as you took your birth, immediately you begin to die. Immediately. If you enquire, "Oh, when the child is born?" you say, say, "One week." That means he has died one week. We are taking that he is living one week, but actually he has died one week. That is wonderful, that still he is living, he has not died. So death is not wonderful because it is sure. It will come-after one week or after one hundred years. That is not wonderful. So long you live, that is wonderful.

*So we should utilize this time to make solution of the life that we are repeatedly dying and again accepting another body. So how they will understand unless they come to the proper guru? Therefore śāstra, says tad*-vijñānārtham: "If you want to know the real problem of your life and if you want to be enlightened how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, how to become eternal, go back to home, back to Godhead, then you must approach the guru." And who is guru? That is explained, very simple thing. Guru never manufactures idea that "You do this and give me money and you become happy." That is not guru. That is another process of earning money. So here it is said, mūḍha, everyone who is simply living in the fool's paradise, manufacturing his own ideas like Ajāmila... Somebody has taken, "This is my duty," somebody has... He is a fool. You must know what is your duty from guru. You are singing every day, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā **. This is life. This is life. Guru-mukha-pad... You accept the bona fide guru, and what he orders you, carry out. Then your life is successful. Ār nā koriho mane āśā. You rascal, you do not desire anything else. Are you not singing daily? But do you understand the meaning? Or you are singing only? What is the meaning? Who will explain? Nobody knows? Yes, what is the meaning?

Devotee: "My only wish is that my mind be purified by the words coming from the mouth of my spiritual master. I have no other desire but this."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the order. Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **. Now citta means consciousness or heart. "I shall do this only, bas. My Guru Mahārāja told me; *I shall do this." Cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā. So it is not my pride, but I can say, for your instruction, I did it. Therefore whatever little success you see than my all my Godbrothers, it is due to this. I have no capacity, but I took it, the words of my guru, as life and soul. So this is fact. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **. Everyone should do that. But if he makes addition, alteration, then he is finished. No addition, alteration. You have to approach guru-guru means the faithful servant of God, Kṛṣṇa*-and take his word how to serve Him. Then you are successful. If you concoct, "I am very intelligent than my guru, and I can make addition or alteration," then you are finished. So that is the only. And now, sing further.



*Devotee: Śrī*-guru-caraṇe rati, ei se uttama-gati.



*Prabhupāda: Śrī*-guru-caraṇe rati, ei se, uttama-gati. If you want to make real progress, then you must be firmly faithful at the lotus feet of guru. Then?



Devotee: Je prasāde pūre sarva āśā.



*Prabhupāda: Je prasāde pūre sarva āśā. Yasya prasādāt... This is the instruction in the whole Vaiṣṇava philosophy. So unless we do that, we remain mūḍha, and this is explained in this Ajāmila*-upākhyāna. So today we are reading this verse, sa evaṁ vartamānaḥ ajñaḥ. Again he says. Again Vyāsadeva says that "This rascal was situated in that, absorbed in the service of his son, Nārāyaṇa, of the name." He did not know... "What is this nonsense Nārāyaṇa?" He knew his son. But Nārāyaṇa is so merciful that because he was constantly calling his son, "Nārāyaṇa, please come here. Nārāyaṇa, please take this," so Kṛṣṇa was taking that "He is chanting 'Nārāyaṇa.' " Kṛṣṇa is so merciful. He never meant that "I am going to Nārāyaṇa." He wanted his son because he was affectionate. But he got the opportunity of chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa. This is his good fortune. Therefore, according to this, we change the name. Why? Because every name is meant for becoming a servant of Kṛṣṇa. So just like Upendra. Upendra means Vāmanadeva. So if you call "Upendra, Upendra," or similarly, that name is taken account of. So that will be explained later on.



*So here also it is said... In the first verse it is said mūḍha, and the second verse also it is said, sa evaṁ vartamānaḥ ajñaḥ. Ajña means rascal. Mūḍha means rascal. Ajña means ignorant, ignorant, who has no knowledge. Jña means one who has knowledge. Ajña mean who has no knowledge. Mṛtyu*-kāla upasthite. So everyone in this material world, he is mūḍha, ajña. He does not care that "I will have to meet death. When everything will be finished, all my plans, all my assets, everything, will be finished." He does not know that. He knows it, but he doesn't care to observing these things. Therefore everyone is mūḍha and ajña. Then, in spite of the death has come, matiṁ cakāra tanaye bāle nārāyaṇāhvaye. He is experiencing, "Now I am dying; death is near." Still, he is thinking of his, that child. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante [Bg. 8.6]. He has got a child. His name is Nārāyaṇa. Now, his position is different. But if I am similarly affected, similarly affectionate to my dog, then what is my position? Or anything. Naturally, I will think of my dog, and immediately I shall get the another body like a dog, or dog. This is nature's law. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram. At the time... The test will be at the time of death, what kind of body you are going to get. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam. The... Just like he is very much affectionate to his son. He is thinking of his son. Similarly, if you very much affectionate to your dog or something else, you will think at that time. Therefore practice Hare Kṛṣṇa so that at the time of death you can think of Kṛṣṇa and your life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



701215SB.IND

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.27

-

Indore, December 15, 1970



*Prabhupāda: ...all sinful contamination. Therefore purposely they commit sinful activity and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa to counteract. That is also greatest offense, that "Because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa..." Just like some government officer, because he is in higher post... Just like the other day I cited the high-court judge. So "I shall take opportunity of taking bribe on the strength of my superior post in government service." According to law, that is greatest offender, the greatest criminal according to law. If a police man kills, his offense and his punishment is greater than an ordinary man killing. That is the law. Knowingly. So the "Nārāyaṇa," the constant chanting of "Nārāyaṇa," on account of the name... Nowadays the fashion is that we do not keep the name of our children in God's name. Formerly, "Kṛṣṇa dāsa," "Nārāyaṇa dāsa," "Govardhana dāsa," some of... There are thousands of Viṣṇu's name. The people would keep the children's name according to that so that, so that indirectly, directly, they would be able to chant the holy name of the Lord. That was the process. And by doing so he will be gradually developing his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhuñjānaḥ prapiban khādan bālakaṁ sneha-yantritaḥ. By affection. Some way or other, we have to increase our affection for Kṛṣṇa, love of Godhead. Through the channel of the affection of one's son or children, one can increase*-that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



sa evaṁ vartamāno 'jño

*mṛtyu*-kāla upasthite

matiṁ cakāra tanaye

bāle nārāyaṇāhvaye

[SB 6.1.27]



*So when he was just on the point of death, naturally he had affection for his son, so he was calling, "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, please come here, please come here." That is natural. I know my father, when he was dying, so I was not at home. So he lived for one day to see me. He was always inquiring "Whether Abhay has come back, come back," like that. So by the paternal affection he showed that. Similarly, the Ajāmila was also calling, "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa." And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. This practice means at the time of death if one can remember Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, then the whole life is successful. At the time of death. Because the mentality, status of the mind at the time of death, will carry him to the next life. Just like the flavor is carried by the air, similarly, my mentality will carry me to a different type of body. If I have created my mentality like Vaiṣṇava, pure devotee, then I shall immediately transfer to Vaikuṇṭha. If I created my mind as an ordinary karmī, then I will have to stay within this material world to enjoy the type of mentality which I have created. If I keep myself as a businessman, doing business... Naturally it is done so. One gentleman in Calcutta, he was a very big businessman, and he was dealing in shares. So at the time of death he was crying, "Kamahatti, Kamahatti shares." Kamahatti shares at that time was very popular to the people. So at the time of his death the result will be that he might have taken his birth as a rat in the Kamahatti mill. It is possible. At the time of death, whatever you think, that will carry you to a type of body. Kṛṣṇa is very kind. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. Anyone whoever begs from Kṛṣṇa any any benefit, any type of benefit required from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa gives him: "All right. You are thinking like rat, so you become a rat. You are thinking like a tiger; you become a tiger. You are thinking like a devotee, you become a devotee. You are thinking of Me, please come to Me." That's all. Simple truth.



*So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa we have to mold our thinking power, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. If you always think... That is recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā. Who is the first-class yogi? "Who is always thinking of Me within himself."

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is specially meant for creating that mentality of the members of the society. That's all. If at the end of his life he simply remembers Kṛṣṇa, that is natural. Whatever you practice whole life, that will come out at the time of your death. That is natural. Sa evaṁ vartamāno ajñaḥ. Ajña. He does not know. Ajña, the very word is used here, ajña, foolish. He is thinking that he will be able to remain forever and enjoy the association of his family and children. Therefore it is said here, ajña. Everyone is thinking that "My..., this material atmosphere, my bank balance, my nice house, my nice family, children, they will protect me." That is foolishness. Nobody will protect you. You have to protect yourself. Just like while you are flying in the sky, airplane or the birds, when there is danger no other plane will be able to save you. No other bird will be able to save you. If you have got your own strength of flying with your wings, then you can be saved. The Bhāgavata says therefore,



*dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣv

*ātma*-sainyeṣv asatsv api

teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*Those who are mad, they think that "My, this body, strong body," deha apatya, "my children, my grown up children," dehāpatya*-kalatra, "my good wife," dehapātya-kalatrādiṣu, "and the by-products of this combination-wife, children, and bank balance." Just like one fights in the battlefield, you are simply fighting, struggle for existence within this material world, and our soldiers are these: my children, my wife, my relatives, my country, so on, so on. But Bhāgavata says pramatta, "he is mad"; teṣāṁ nidhanam, "he does not know that they will be all finished." Paśyann api na paśyati: "he does not see, although he is seeing." He has seen that his father was living, but he is no more: "He is not no more protecting me. Then how I shall protect my son, or how my son will protect me?" And therefore it is stated pramatta, ajña. These words are used. They are factually the fact, but they do not know. Pramatta.



*Evaṁ vartamāno 'jño mṛtyu-kāla upasthite. When it was time for death, mṛtyu-kāla upasthite, matiṁ cakāra tanaye bāle nārāyaṇa. So the benefit was, because he was chanting the name of Nārāyaṇa in connection with his child's name, naturally at the time of his death he was thinking of the Nārāyaṇa child, the name. Viśvanātha Cakravartī has commented on this point that this Nārāyaṇa, thinking of the name of the child, immediately reminded him of the service he was doing according to his father's direction. He was also, in the childhood or in his boyhood, he was engaged in the service of the Lord, Nārāyaṇa. According to Vedic civilization, therefore, a child*-he may be a king's son or a poor man's son-must go to gurukula and live for some time under the training of the spiritual master to be very thickly connected with Nārāyaṇa and Kṛṣṇa. The āśrama... Just like we have got this Kṛṣṇa conscious āśrama, there is rules and regulations that one should rise early in the morning, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and so many duties are there. They are all in connection with Kṛṣṇa. If a child is trained up in that way, then he becomes automatically Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if a child becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious up to the age of twenty, twenty-five years, then naturally he becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So when he enters life, although he accepts wife and children, he cannot forget Kṛṣṇa. Therefore his household life also continues Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Naturally, at the age of fifty he leaves the family connection and accepts the vānaprastha. And then, when he is fully trained, he accepts sannyāsa.

*This is the system of varṇāśrama*-dharma-four kinds of varṇas and four kinds of āśrama. It is very scientific. The whole idea of human civilization should be how to fix one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to Viṣṇu. Because they do not know na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. The real interest is to approach Viṣṇu, to go back to home, go back to Godhead. That he does not know. He is entangled with these material affairs. Anartha. They are called anartha. They are not required. When you get a human form of body you must know that your food and shelter is already ordained. You don't require to try for this. Even the birds and beasts, they do not try for their food and shelter. They are certain that "Somewhere we have got our shelter and there is somewhere my food." Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Kṛṣṇa, the supreme patron, He is supplying food to everyone. He is supplying food to the elephant, who eats one time one hundred pounds, and He is supplying a grain of sugar to the ant also. So why should bother about my food? That is śaraṇāgati. When a man becomes śaraṇāgata, he knows perfectly well that "Somehow or other there is my food." A sannyāsī... sannyāsī means sat nyāsa, to fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa. But the sannyāsīs, they misuse in another way. Actually sannyāsa means to fully surrender. Nowadays in India there are so many sannyāsīs, some three million sannyāsīs. They are wandering all over the country. They have no food problem. Still, although India is considered to be poverty-stricken. Either sannyāsī or gṛhastha, nobody has to have problem. You have created such... Simply artificially you have created such problem. Bhāgavata says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. One should try for that thing which is not obtainable either in the higher planetary system or lower planetary system. Because everywhere the food, shelter, sex life, and protection is there, in every planet. But the only want is that one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "There is no scarcity in the world. The only scarcity is that people are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. Otherwise there is no scarcity." He has declared like that. They have simply artificially created the problem. If you say that "Why a man is suffering for want?" Actually man is not suffering for want. He is eating. But that you cannot check. Just like a man is suffering from some disease. Why he is suffering? Nobody has given him that disease. Similarly, nobody has given him that poverty. You try to help (indistinct). But don't think that "God has created somebody poor and somebody rich." That is not fact. God is impartial. We create our poverty; we create our disease. Matiṁ cakāra tanaye bāle nārāyaṇāhvaye.

*sa pāśa*-hastāṁs trīn dṛṣṭvā

*puruṣān ati*-dāruṇān

*vakra*-tuṇḍān ūrdhva-romṇa

ātmānaṁ netum āgatān



*When he was dying he also saw that three ferocious persons, very fearful persons with rope in their hands, sa pāśa*-hastāṁs trīn dṛṣṭvā puruṣān ati-dāruṇān, very fearful, he saw. Sometimes dying man cries because he sees that "Somebody has come to take me to Yamarāja." He sees, and he is very fearful. So now he also became. Vakra-tuṇḍān ūrdhva-romṇa. The description of the assistants of Yamarāja: their hairs are very curled, vakra. Vakra-tuṇḍān ūrdhva-romṇa: and the hairs on the body are standing. Ūrdhva-romṇa ātmānaṁ netum āgatān. Now at the time of Ajāmila's death, the assistants of Yamarāja have come to take him. We shall discuss, some time again. (devotees offer obeisances) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end-room conversation follows)





760527SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.27

-

Honolulu, May 27, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "When the time of death arrived for the foolish Ajāmila, he began thinking exclusively of his son, Nārāyaṇa." [SB 6.1.27]



*Prabhupāda: So in the previous verse also it has been described, bhojayan pāyayan mūḍho, and here is also, sa evaṁ vartamāno ajñā. Ajñā means one who has no sufficient knowledge. He is called ajñā. And mūḍha means ass, rascal. So in both the verses the Ajāmila is described as fool, rascal, and without sufficient knowledge. Why? Because he's attached to the child and he does not know that death is coming now. Death is there. This is our position. We say that "God is dead." God is not dead. God is coming very soon. Wait a few years, he'll be dead. This is the position. You rascal, God is not dead. God is coming to kick you, to kill you. Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. What is death? Just like in your previous life you had been something. Death means you have forgotten everything. Suppose I was a very big king or prime minister or president. But that is all finished. Now I've got another life, another chapter of life. Tathā dehāntara-prāpti. You have to change your body. It may be lower degree or higher degree, but you have to change your body. There are 8,400,000 species of life, forms of life. You have to accept one of them. That is our real problem. If we forget the real problem and blindly or foolishly say that "God is dead..." God may be dead, but God's law is not dead. Suppose a king dies, a president dies; does it mean the government dies? Huh? The government will go on. You can say, "God is dead." God is not dead, neither you are dead. But if you foolishly say that God is dead, that does not mean His law is also dead. The law will go on. One king may be dead. The next, his son or somebody will become king, and the government law will go on. So what is the use of talking foolishly like "God is dead"? God is never dead. This is going on. This morning we're talking.



*So we are concerned with the laws of God. God may be dead or alive*-it doesn't matter. Suppose by law we are prisoners, we are in the prison house, and all of a sudden the president or the king dies. Does it mean you shall be free? No. You have to rot. Just like Bengali proverb says (Bengali), that if the king dies, his government is not stopped. We should remember that, that that government is prakṛti, the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. You are reading Bhagavad-gītā. So this is all foolish things, that "God is dead," "I don't care for God." But God, actually, God is not dead. You are dead. You are dead actually because this body, the bodily concept of life, this body is dead. Just like you are driving one car. But if you think that "I'm the car..." The car is dead. The car is moving because you are alive. Similarly, this dead body, this body is dead, already dead from the very beginning, but it is moving on account of the soul. This is knowledge. It is dead from the very beginning. Therefore in the śāstra it is said that... What is that? I am just now forgetting. Oh, aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Aprāṇasya hi dehasya. Deha, deha means this body. So either it is dead or alive, it has no life. Aprāṇasya hi dehasya. Deha, he is not alive. It is always dead. Simply we understand, because we are foolish rascals, we understand that this body is dead when the soul is away. The body is always dead. So bhagavad-bhakti-vihīnasya jatiḥ japas tapaḥ kriyaḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, bhāgavata-bhakti-vihīnasya, then his big nationality, jatiḥ, his achievement, japas tapaḥ, his activities, everything bhagavad-bhakti-vihīnasya jatiḥ japas tapaḥ kriyaḥ, all these things are like decoration of the dead body. Aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. We are decorating this body with flower, ornaments, nice cloth. How long? So long the life is there. Then it is beautiful. Otherwise no one will do. If you garland... Suppose I become dead and you garland. It may be pleasing to somebody, but what is the value? There is no value.

*So this material civilization, they're decorating this body. So the bodily concept of life is condemned in the very beginning of the Bhagavad*-gītā. This knowledge was given to Arjuna by Kṛṣṇa when he surrendered. When he was talking friendly, He did not say. When Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna submitted that "Kṛṣṇa, I'm now perplexed. So how my intelligence can be revived? You know." Arjuna knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so his perplexed position can be solved by Kṛṣṇa. That he knew. Therefore he said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "Kṛṣṇa, no more friendly talks. We are wasting time. Now I become Your disciple, śiṣya." Śiṣya means disciple. "You kindly advise me. I'm surrendering unto You." Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. Spiritual master means you must surrender to him. If you talk foolish, then you will not be benefited. You must submissively hear and accept whatever he says. So when Kṛṣṇa began to teach him as teacher, the first thing He uttered... Anyone can say what He first said?

Devotee: Aśocyān anvaśocas tvam.



Prabhupāda: Ah.



aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



"My dear Arjuna, you are talking like very learned scholar, but you are so rascal that you are talking of this body."



*So, so far this body's concerned, either it is dead or alive, it is not the subject matter of any talk. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Those who are learned scholars don't talk about the body. They'll talk about the soul. That is paṇḍita. What is the... This is dead body. Suppose this is cloth. Uh? Now if you talk about this cloth, you can talk. You can write volumes of books: "This silk was purchased in that store and it was manufactured in such and such day, and the man manufactured, he's like this..." You can go on talking nonsense like that and can write books. So all these rascal philosophers, they are writing about this cloth. That's all. Yasyātmā*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. But this is not the subject matter for the learned scholars. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. What is this body? A combination of matter. It is already dead. Because the living soul is there, it is moving, and as soon as the living bo..., soul is out of the body, it is useless, dead matter. So what is there important talking about this dead body? It is made of this earth, earthly ingredient, bhūmir āpo 'nalo, and it will become again. Either... There are three, how do you say, transformation of this body. One transformation is ash. Another transformation is stool. Another transformation is earth. There are three different types of transformations. Just like Christian people, they bury the body. So, in due course of time you'll find, say, after ten years, twenty, your body's finished. It is now earth. The body has become earth. And Hindus, they burn it, so the body becomes ash. And the Parsees, they throw the body to be eaten by the vultures. It becomes stool. That is the last, how would you say, transformation of this body. And we are so much busy about this ash, stool, and earth. Just see how foolish we are.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca. Just like motorcar, with driver or no driver, what is it? It is dead matter. That's all. Why one should be busy about this motorcar? One should be busy about the driver, whether he's (indistinct) nicely, whether he's eating nicely, he'll drive. If you don't take care of the driver, simply you wash the car, what is the use? The car will not be moving without driver. Similarly, the whole civilization should be on the basis of understanding the soul. That is civilization. Unfortunately, by the spell of māyā... Just like this Ajāmila. He's committing sinful activities. He's now rogue, thief, cheater. He doesn't care for that. But he's taking care of the body of the child. He's thinking, "This child will save me when I'll be in danger." There is another verse in the Second Canto:

*dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣu

*ātma*-sainyeṣv asatsv api

teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*Deha means this body. Apatya means children. Dehāpatya. Kalatra means wife. Dehāpatya kalatrādiṣu ātm*-asainyeṣu. Here is struggle for existence, and you're thinking that "This my strong body and my nice children and my wife, they are my soldiers. Therefore I am saved." Everyone is thinking like that. "Now I am in a good family. I've got my family members very nice. I've got this strong body. Oh, what do I care, God is dead?" That's all.



*So this is our misconception. We are thinking that this paraphernalia*-my country, my community, my countrymen or my family, my wife, my children and so many things, mine, mine, mine-so I'm thinking that they will give me all protection. No. Therefore, in the Bhāgavata it is said, dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu asatsv api. He knows that "They will be finished. They cannot give protection to themselves. What protection they'll give to me?" This is knowledge. This is knowledge. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api pramatta teṣāṁ nidhanam [SB 2.1.4]. He knows that they will be finished, paśyann api na paśyati. He has practical experience, yet still he does not see. This is called māyā. Māyā means thing is one and he's thinking otherwise. His soldier, the so-called soldier, the protector, will be finished, but still he's depending on him. Suppose a bird is flying with his family in the sky. But if there is some danger, then no other bird can help him. You have to help yourself. Just like aeroplane. If dozens of aeroplane is flying, but if one aeroplane is in danger, no other plane can give him any help. It will fall down and crash. Finished.

*So we have to take care of ourself. Daily, we are thinking, "My country, my community"*-they're all busy in this way-"they'll save me." No. When death will come, nobody will save you. He'll remember that. You are challenging, "God is dead." When God will come and make you killed, nobody can save you. So we are so foolish for thinking that "God is dead, and I shall continue my life, and my wife, my children, my countrymen, my nation will save me." That is not possible.

Thank you very much. (end)



701217SB.SUR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.27-34

-

Surat, December 17, 1970



Prabhupāda:



sa evaṁ vartamānaḥ ajñaḥ

*mṛtyu*-kāla upasthite

matiṁ cakāra tanaye

bāle nārāyaṇa-āhvaye

[SB 6.1.27]



*So Ajāmila, at the point of his death, just remembered his youngest son, who was named Nārāyaṇa. So the Nārāyaṇa, very name, has got the full potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa. That is the secret of this nāma*-saṅkīrtana movement. By chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, you immediately contact with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. Nāma, the Lord's name, is not material; *it is spiritual. The sound is Brahman, śabda*-brahma. Vedic sounds, they are śabda-brahma. They are not material sound. So nāma cintāmaṇiḥ, spiritual. Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name, there is no difference. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. Rasa, the transcendental mellows. Every one of us is searching after some mellow, some pleasure from everything. Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasures, rasa-vigraha, fully personified. Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, there is rasa, a transcendental mellow, enjoyment, relishable. Very Kṛṣṇa presence.



For instance, that, when in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, fighting was going on between Kṛṣṇa and Bhīṣma, both of them... Kṛṣṇa, of course, did not touch any weapon because He promised. But Grandfather Bhīṣma was very severely piercing Kṛṣṇa's body with arrows, and Kṛṣṇa was enjoying. That is the relationship between Kṛṣṇa and His devotees. Kṛṣṇa can be worshiped, Kṛṣṇa can be loved, by any capacity. The gopīs loved Kṛṣṇa out of seemingly lust, lusty desires, and Śiśupāla remembered Kṛṣṇa out of anger. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt. And Kamsa remembered always Kṛṣṇa out of fear. And, of course, they were not devotees. Devotees means they should be always favorably disposed to Kṛṣṇa. Not inimical. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind, even somebody is disposed to Him in an inimical attitude, he also gets salvation. For example, Kamsa, Dantavakra, Śiśupāla, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Rāvaṇa. They were not friendly. Still, because they thought of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, consciousness were there, but it was unfavorable. Bhakti means favorable. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Favorably. That is bhakti. And pratikūlyena, just in the opposite way, thinking of Kṛṣṇa in inimical way, that is also accepted by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Anyone who thinks of Kṛṣṇa always, he is the greatest yogi. So even the enemies who think of Kṛṣṇa always, although unfavorably, he becomes a yogi because thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

*Therefore the result of yogic performances are achieved by the inimical personalities. In the impersonal Brahman effulgence, not only the highly learned scholars who are trying to attain brahma*-jñāna, they enter, but also the enemies who are unfavorably thinking of Kṛṣṇa, they also enter into that spiritual kingdom, impersonal effulgence, nirviśeṣa-brahmajyoti. Therefore a devotee's position is different from the jñānīs', impersonalists'. Because the destination which is achieved by the jñānīs is also achieved by the enemies of Kṛṣṇa. So that is not a very high position. Therefore devotees' position is very exalted. They do not... They go through the impersonal effulgence of Brahman, but they are not attracted. They are attracted in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, Goloka Vṛndāvana planets, where the Supreme Personality of Godhead lives eternally with His associates.

So the effect of chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa was immediately visible in the person of Ajāmila. Although he was so much sinfully absorbed, because he uttered the name of his boy, whose name was Nārāyaṇa,

dūre krīḍanakāsaktaṁ

putraṁ nārāyaṇāhvayam

plāvitena svareṇoccair

ājuhāvākulendriyaḥ



At the time of death, especially those who are full of sinful activities, they become too much agitated how to save himself, how to enter into another body. It is a very painful situation. The painful situation becomes so acute that no more the living entity can live in this body. Just like sometimes it happens: when a person becomes too much painful, he commits suicide. He does not want to live within this body. But he does not know that is another sinful activity. You cannot commit suicide. That is another criminal action.



*So at the time of death... Of course, those who are devotees, their position is different. People may say, "The devotee is also dying, and the nondevotee, sinful man, is also dying. What is the difference?" So there is much difference. The example is given: just like a cat catching a rat in his mouth and at the same time carrying his cubs in the mouth. Superficially, we can see that the same mouth is being used, but one is feeling comfortable being carried by the mother, and another is feeling the death knell. Similarly, at the time of death, the devotee's feeling that they are being transferred to Vaikuṇṭha, whereas the ordinary sinful man is feeling that the Yamarāja, the dūtas, the constables of Yamarāja are dragging him to the hellish condition of life. So one should not conclude simply by seeing that he is dying. No. The process is different. Janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. As Lord Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance are all spiritual, transcendental, they are not ordinary things, similarly, Lord Kṛṣṇa's devotee, His representative, who is sent to this material world for preaching the glories of Lord Kṛṣṇa, their appearance and disappearance is also like Kṛṣṇa's. Therefore, according to Vaiṣṇava principles, the appearance and disappearance of Vaiṣṇava is considered all*-auspicious. Therefore we hold festivals. Just like yesterday we had the disappearance day of His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Goswami Prabhupāda. So we offered our respects and observed a festival, Āvirbhava, Tirobhava. Tirobhava.

*Actually the living entity has no birth or death, and what to speak of Kṛṣṇa or His devotee. Kṛṣṇa is the chief living entity of all living entities. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is also a living entity. Sometimes the atheist class of men say, "God is dead." The rascals, they do not know that even a small living entity does not die. How Kṛṣṇa can be dead or God can be dead? Mūḍhā. Therefore these classes of men are described in the Bhagavad*-gītā as mūḍhā, rascals. They do not know anything; still, they pose themselves as very learned and utter something which is neither good for them nor for the public.

So in this way, dūre krīḍanakāsaktaṁ putraṁ nārāyaṇāhvayam, plāvitena svareṇa, very appealing voice, he began to ask his youngest son, "Please come here. I am dying." He was very much afraid of the three Yamadūtas who were..., who came there to drag him.

niśamya mriyamāṇasya

*mukhato hari*-kīrtanam

bhartur nāma mahārāja

pārṣadāḥ sahasāpatan



*Kṛṣṇa is so kind. As soon as He heard that "This man is chanting 'Nārāyaṇa' at the time of his death," immediately He sent His assistants, Viṣṇudūtas, to give him shelter. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. The mahato bhayāt... This man, this Ajāmila, is fallen into great calamity. The Yamadūtas, the assistants of the superintendent of death, Yamarāja, has come there to drag him. So mahato bhayāt. It was a great, fearful, dangerous place. But simply by uttering 'Nārāyaṇa' he was saved.



*So that practice is required. Simply by... Mahato bhayāt. Here it is also said, niśamya mriyamāṇasya mukhato hari*-kīrtanam. The hari-kīrtana is so glorious. If anyone at the time of death, mriyamāṇa, mriyamāṇa, one who is just dying... In a Bengali proverb it is said, parable, bhajan koro sādhan koro murte jānle haya: "Whatever you do, spiritual activities, they will be tested at the time of death." All your chants that you are practicing, this will be tested at the time of death. If you can remember Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, hari-kīrtana, at the time of death, then you are successful. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind, that immediately after hearing that the dying man was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa, the same thing... Bhartur nāma pārṣadāḥ.

*The nārāyaṇa*-sena, the assistants of Lord Nārāyaṇa, they are also looking like Nārāyaṇa. They have also got four hands. In the Vaikuṇṭha planets the residents are also exactly of the same feature of Nārāyaṇa. Just like in this planet the king and the citizens have the same feature of body-two hands, two legs... [break] The same bodily feature. There are five kinds of mukti, liberation: sārūpya, sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi. Sārṣṭi liberation is not accepted by the devotees. Not sārṣṭi; *sārūpya. And those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they do not accept any one of these liberations. Although, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, they are elevated to the planet Goloka Vṛndāvana, but from their part they do not wish any kind of liberation. They simply want to serve the Lord. And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that "I may take birth in a family as an ant where there are devotees," because in the house of a devotee, the ants also, by eating the remnants of the foodstuff of the devotee, becomes liberated. A devotee's position is so great, a pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11].

vikarṣato 'ntar hṛdayād

*dāsī*-patim ajāmilam

*yama*-preṣyān viṣṇudūtā

vārayām āsur ojasā



*The Yamadūtas, the constables of Yamarāja, they are dragging Ajāmila to take him to the planet there Yamarāja is there. And as soon as he uttered the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, immediately Lord Nārāyaṇa's assistants came, and with grave voice they said, "What are you doing? Stop! You cannot take this man to the Yama*-mandira." Ojasā. Ojasā, with great gravity they said,



ūcur niṣedhitās tāṁs te

*vaivasvata*-puraḥsarāḥ

ke yūyaṁ pratiṣeddhāro

*dharma*-rājasya śāsanam



*The assistants of the Yamarāja, Yamadūtas, saw that they are very beautiful and their bodily features are very attractive because they are coming from Vaikuṇṭha, with four hands. So immediately they got some respectful attitude and inquired that "Who are you, that you are trying to interrupt in the administration of Yamarāja? It is not possible. You cannot... Nobody has ever interrupted with the administration of Yamarāja, so we are surprised. Who are you?" Ūcur niṣedhitās tāṁs te vaivasvata*-puraḥsarāḥ. Vaivasvata-puraḥsarāḥ. Yamarāja is also the son of Manu; *therefore his assistants are called vaivasvata*-puraḥ. Ke yūyaṁ pratiṣeddhāro dharma-rājasya śāsanam: "Who are you? You have appeared before us as opposing party," pratiyuddhāraḥ. Warriors, they have got opposite party to fight. So they expected there will be fight because they are determined to take away Ajāmila to the Yama-mandira, whereas the Viṣṇudūtas, they forbade, "Oh, you cannot take them. You cannot take him. Stop."



Kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ kasmād asya niṣedhatha: "Who are you, my dear sirs? Why you are forbidding us? What is the purpose of this forbidding?"

kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ

kasmād asya niṣedhatha

kiṁ devā upadevā vā

*yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha*-sattamāḥ



*They saw that they were not ordinary men. With four hands. Because within this universe, four hands, only Lord Brahmā has got four hands. Nobody has got four hands. But they were four-handed. So they understood that "They are not ordinary living entities. They must be some extraordinary demigods or some upadevatā, almost like demigods." Siddha-sattamāḥ: "Or you are coming from the Siddhaloka." There is a planet which is called Siddhaloka within this universe. In the Siddhaloka they have got full perfection of life. And sometimes the yogis can demonstrate. In the Siddhaloka, for going from one planet to another planet there is no need of vehicles, no need of aeroplane. They can fly themselves in the sky. Sometimes we have seen pictures*-a beautiful man and woman with wings. That is, of course, imagination. Maybe. We have not seen the inhabitants of the Siddhaloka, but we find it from Vedic scriptures that they can fly in the sky without any help of aeroplane or similar machine. They travel from one planet to another by yoga-siddhi. As the yogis can transfer themselves from one place to another without any difficulty, similarly, the inhabitants of Siddhaloka, they can fly in the sky. (aside:) What is that?



Yamunā: In Siddhaloka there are angels? That means angels?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] There are many different types of human beings. So, the Caranas, the demigods, the Siddhas. Don't think that in every planet you can find out the same bodily features. There are different bodily features. So in Siddhaloka they have got the same bodily features, but their powers are far, far greater than ours. Siddha*-sat...



Now they are describing,

*sarve padma*-palāśākṣāḥ

*pīta*-kauśeya-vāsasaḥ

kirīṭinaḥ kuṇḍalino

*lasat*-puṣkara-mālinaḥ



*"You are so beautiful*-looking that all of your eyes are just like lotus petals." Sarve padma-palāśākṣāḥ pīta-kauśeya-vāsasaḥ: "And you are very nicely dressed with yellow colored garments and ornaments," and kirīṭinaḥ, "with helmet," kirīṭinaḥ kuṇḍalinaḥ, "earrings, nice earrings, nice jewels, helmets," kirīṭinaḥ kuṇḍalino lasat-puṣkara..., "and with nice flower garlands." This is the description of the inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭhaloka. There is no hat-coat-pant. They are dressed in a different way.



*All right. Now have... [break] There are five kinds of devotees, liberation. Any one. There are varieties in the spiritual kingdom also, the five kinds of liberation, any one of them. Māyāvādī philosophers, they know only one kind of liberation, sāyujya*-mukti, to merge into the existence of brahmajyoti. That much they know. Or they know... They prefer this kind of liberation, to become with the Supreme. That is taste. But devotees, they do not like. They want to keep their individuality.

Yamunā: (indistinct) angels in the (indistinct) different angels?



Prabhupāda: So the angels... The Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. It is in the material world. But they are highly qualified. But that Siddhaloka is not in the spiritual world. That is within the material world.



Devotee (1): You said that the pictures they draw of the men with wings, that is not bona fide pictures?



*Prabhupāda: No. The statement in the Vedic literature*-that they can fly. Now one can draw some picture, because they have idea that without wings how one can fly? That may be. That is their idea. But Nārada can fly everywhere. He has no wings. He can travel both in the spiritual and material world, but he has no wings.



Mālatī: Is it true he has the same body in the spiritual world and when he comes into the material world?



Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Nārada's facility. He has got the benediction that he can travel anywhere, without any restriction. Even some of the yogis... Durvāsā Muni, he also went to the spiritual world, saw Lord Viṣṇu. And Arjuna also went to the spiritual world with Kṛṣṇa. So, not that this material body cannot be transformed into spiritual body by the supreme will of the Lord. Anything can be changed. We think that this is stereotyped; it cannot be transformed. No. That's not the fact. By the supreme will, anything can be changed into anything.



Revatīnandana: I have a question. One of my prabhus told me that you once said that your Guru Mahārāja said that Jesus Christ was a śaktyāveśāvatāra. Is that correct?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he said it, it must be correct. Muhammad also, śaktyāveśāvatāra. Śaktyāveśāvatāra means a living entity is especially empowered to preach the glories of the Lord. Lord Buddha is also śaktyāveśāvatāra. They are not ordinary human being. They are especially empowered personalities.



Devotee (1): Lord Buddha is not an incarnation?



Prabhupāda: Incarnation. Avatāra means incarnation.



Devotee (1): So that means incarnation also?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaktyāveśāvatāra means incarnation with special power.



Revatīnandana: It's stated in the *Bhāgavatam* that there are two kinds of incarnations. One is a plenary portion, and the other is an empowered living entity. They're both incarnations.



Devotee (1): I thought that Lord Buddha was supposed to be incarnation of Viṣṇu.(?)



*Prabhupāda: Not viṣṇu*-tattva. They are not viṣṇu-tattva. There are jīva-tattva and viṣṇu-tattva. The jīvas are sometimes... Just like Lord Brahmā. He is also not viṣṇu-tattva. Lord Śiva is between viṣṇu-tattva and jīva-tattva. So powers, energies of the Lord exhibited in different categories... The viṣṇu-tattva is full of the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Others, they are not full. And Kṛṣṇa is the fullest, ṣoḍaśa-kalāḥ. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa, aṁśa. Aṁśa means partially present in Kṛṣṇa. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].



*Revatīnandana: In the picture in the revealed book, Nāradajī is asking questions of Lord Brahmā. I was thinking that Nārada has actually an all*-spiritual body, and Brahmā has a material form, material body. And yet Nārada appears to Brahmājī to ask questions from him as spiritual master. How is that?



Prabhupāda: Brahmājī also enters the spiritual kingdom at the time of annihilation with his persons.



Revatīnandana: Does he undergo a change of body at that time?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That automatically takes place. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu's son is Prahlāda. It doesn't matter. And spiritual body, material body, that can be changed. [break]



Revatīnandana: It will all be one thing(?), spiritual into material or material...



Prabhupāda: Material means when the consciousness is not Kṛṣṇa. That is material. The same example, that iron rod, if kept to the fire, gradually it becomes warm, warmer, and at last it becomes red. When it is red, it is no longer iron; *it is fire. Similarly, by spiritual association, your body gradually becomes spiritualized. And at the perfection stage, there is no more material activities, simply the activities of the fire. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



The whole body becomes supplemented with Brahman effulgence. It is not for everyone, and those who are very, very much spiritually advanced, their body becomes like that. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava ācārya's body is never burned. It is entombed. They worship the body. But that is spiritual body.



Devotee (2): It is never burned?



Prabhupāda: No. (end)





750713SB.PHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.28-29

-

Philadelphia, July 13, 1975



Nitāi: "At the time of death, Ajāmila saw three awkward persons, very fearsome in appearance, with ropes in their hands. They had twisted faces and deformed bodily features, and their hair stood on end. They had come to take Ajāmila away to the shelter of Yamarāja. Ajāmila became extremely bewildered when he saw them. His small child, Nārāyaṇa, was playing a little distance off, and with tearful eyes and great anxiety, he called the name of his son very loudly three times, 'Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa!' " [SB 6.1.28-29]



Prabhupāda: Is there "three times"?



Nitāi: It said in the manuscript. The manuscript said "three times."



Prabhupāda: Who said in the manuscript? There is no three times. Not "Nārāyaṇa" three times. One time, "O Nārāyaṇa," that's all. So did I say "three times"? No, it is not said here. You should correct it. Once, "O Nārāyaṇa," that's all. There is no reason of calling three times. There is no mention here. Once is sufficient. (laughter)



*sa pāśa*-hastāṁs trīn dṛṣṭvā

*puruṣān ati*-dāruṇān

*vakra*-tuṇḍān ūrdhva-romṇa

ātmānaṁ netum āgatān



dūre krīḍanakāsaktaṁ

putraṁ nārāyaṇāhvayam

plāvitena svareṇoccair

ājuhāvākulendriyaḥ

[SB 6.1.28-29]



Uccair ājuhāva, very loudly, "Nārāyaṇa!" Like that. That's all. Uccair ājuhāva ākulendriyaḥ. So you edited it? Not yet?



Nitāi: No.



*Prabhupāda: So you should keep at least what is there. So this is the position at the time of death. Sometimes you will find the dying man is crying, ākulendriyaḥ, tearful eyes. He cannot express. He is not practiced. But he was given the chance. Kṛṣṇa gave him the conscience when the child was born to keep his name Nārāyaṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy, that "This rascal was My devotee, and now he is so fallen. All right, he is attracted to his children." So He gave the conscience, "Now keep your son's name Nārāyaṇa." Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa says, "From Me everything, remembrance and forgetfulness, come." Those who want to forget Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa helps him to forget: "All right, you forget." He does not give. He does not dictate from the within. And one who is foolishly in bad association, unfortunately forgets Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa gives him chance. Offenders are very nuisance. Kṛṣṇa... Too much offender, purposefully, guru*-Vaiṣṇava, his position is very difficult. But by chance if one forgets Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa does not forget him.



*Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

api cet sudurācāro

*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

[Bg. 9.30]



*Practiced, we are practiced to so many bad habits life after life in this material condition. So sometimes, one who is engaged in devotional service to the Lord may, on account of old practice, he commits some sinful activities. Kṛṣṇa forgives him. He knows that he is sincere, but on account of his old practice, he has done something mistake. There is a verse, saḥ pāda*-mūlaṁ bhajatāṁ priyasya(?). Somehow or other, you become recognized by Kṛṣṇa, priya. Kṛṣṇa may know that "He is sincerely trying to do something for render..." Kṛṣṇa does not require your service or my service. He is self-sufficient. If we render service, that is for..., that is good for us. Kṛṣṇa, He recognizes, "Oh, now he has again begun service. That's nice." So to such person Kṛṣṇa excuses. Saḥ pāda-mūlaṁ bhajatāṁ priyasya. That verse. Now I forget. There is a verse like that.



*So the Ajāmila, young man, on account of association with a prostitute, he lost his good character and began to maintain the prostitute by stealing, by cheating, one after another. So by mistake or on account of the age, he became captivated by the prostitute. So Kṛṣṇa was watching. Therefore He gave him this chance that on account of his affection towards the child, he will at least repeat "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa." "Nārāyaṇa come. Nārāyaṇa take your food. Nārāyaṇa sit down." So bhāva*-grāhi-janārdanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He takes the purpose or the essence. Because the holy name has its effect. So although this Ajāmila, by his foolishness, he was attached to the material body of the son, but because he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa," Kṛṣṇa was taking that essence, that's all, that "Some way or other, he is chanting." The importance of chanting is so nice. So do not give up chanting. Then Kṛṣṇa will protect you. This is the example. "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," you practice. Naturally, when you are in danger, you will say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." This much do. If you are practiced to do something, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you are safe.

*So it is not difficult. Sincerely chant. Try to avoid offense. Don't try to fall down purposefully for sense gratification. That is very dangerous. He... Purposefully, he did not fall down. Circumstantially came in contact with a prostitute, could not help him. So circumstantially he fell down, not by willingly. This should be noted. Willingly doing, that is very great offense. But circumstantially, there is every chance because we are fallen and practiced to malpractices life after life. Because the material life means sinful life. You see the whole people. They do not care. They do not know even this is sinful. We say, "No illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication and no gambling." So Western people will think, "What is this nonsense? These are the preliminary facilities for a human being, and this man is denying." They do not know even. Some of our students left this institution. They thought that "Swamiji is denying the primary necessities of life." They are so dull that they cannot understand this is sinful. Not only ordinary common man, even a big man, Lord Zetland in England. So one of my Godbrothers went to preach, and Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland... He was known as Lord Rolandsey(?). He was governor of Bengal. In our college days he came to our coll... He's Scotch man. So very gentleman and inclined to philosophy. So he asked this Godbrother, "Can you make me brāhmaṇa?" So he proposed, "Yes, why not? You follow these rules and regulation. You will become brāhmaṇa." So when he heard the rules and regulation-no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling, no intoxication*-he said, "Oh, it is impossible. It is not possible." He flatly refused, that "In our country it is not possible."

So it is very difficult job, but if one is able to give up these sinful activities, then his life is very pure. He becomes purified. And unless one is purified, he cannot chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; neither he can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*This Kṛṣṇa says. "One who has ended the process of sinful activities and engaged in pious activities, such person can become a firm devotee." So these four principle, as we have recommended, you must follow. There is no question of optional, "I may do it, I may not do." No, you must. Otherwise, the progress will be checked. Kṛṣṇa will not leave you. Just like the Ajāmila. The progress was checked, but because he did not do it willfully, therefore Kṛṣṇa was giving him opportunity. As soon as possible, again capture him. Because he did not do anything willfully. First of all, this is the condition, circumstantial. Therefore Kṛṣṇa was very kind. He gave him the son, "Call him. You have affection for your son? All right, chant 'Nārāyaṇa' by calling your son." This opportunity was given. So for his sinful activities he saw fierceful features of these order*-carriers, or Yamadūta. That is going on. If one is not offender, then he has no chance even to see the Yamadūta. But because willfully or nonwillfully he was engaged in sinful activities, associating with the prostitute, and for maintaining the prostitute he was planning so many sinful activities, cheat and take others' money and enjoy, for that reason, he had to see. And if he remains pure, he hasn't got to see. This is the difference.



So regular resultant action of sinful life, one has to. Just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was advised by Kṛṣṇa that "You go to Droṇācārya and tell him the lies." "What is that?" "Now, tell him that 'Your son Aśvatthāmā is dead.' " Because Droṇācārya had some benediction that unless he is shocked by the death of his son, he will never die. So Kṛṣṇa had to take this diplomatic, because it is politics. So Kṛṣṇa... Because Droṇācārya will not believe anyone. He knew that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira is a most pious man; he never tells lies. So if Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira goes and says that "Your son is dead," then he will believe. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa could have gone personally, but He knew that people do not believe Him. (laughter) He is very tricky. (laughter) So therefore no tricky man can excel Him. A man may be very tricky, very intelligent, but he will not be able to excel Kṛṣṇa. He is more tricky. Just like in His childhood, Kṛṣṇa was naughty, so mother wanted to bind Him. So Kṛṣṇa also became tricky. Mother first of all brought some rope and bound, and when it was to be knotted, it was short. And then again she joined another rope. In this way, whatever rope store she had, she brought one after another, and at last, when knotting, it is too... What is called?

Devotees: Inches.



*Prabhupāda: Short. So she, Kṛṣṇa thought, "Mother, nobody can bind Me, and because I have accepted to become your child, you are trying to bind Me? All right, you bring your all ropes. You will never be able to bind Me." This is Kṛṣṇa. But mother Yaśodā is the greatest devotee. So when Kṛṣṇa saw that "My mother is now exhausted, perspiring. All right, you can bind Me." This is the... You have seen in the Kṛṣṇa book. So ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. If you want to play tricks with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is the greater trick. You will never be able. That is our mistake, that we think that "I am so intelligent, I can do something without the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa." That is our foolishness. Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: [Bg. 15.15] "I am sitting in everyone's heart." How you can cheat Him? It is not possible. Don't try to cheat Kṛṣṇa. Don't try to cheat guru. Don't try to cheat Kṛṣṇa. Then your progress is sure. Guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. You are singing daily, śrī-guru-caraṇa... What is that? Śrī-guru...



*Devotees: Śrī*-guru-caraṇa-padma, kevala-bhakati-sadma.



Prabhupāda: No, that...



*Devotee: Guru*-mukha?



*Prabhupāda: Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **. Don't try to cheat guru. Then progress will be checked.



ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān

nāvamanyeta karhicit

*na martya*-buddhyāsūyeta

*sarva*-devamayo guruḥ

[SB 11.17.27]



*Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān. Kṛṣṇa says, "Ācārya means I am." Nāvamanyeta karhicit: "Do not try to neglect." Na martya*-buddhyāsūyeta: "Do not consider ācārya, spiritual master, as ordinary human being and become envious." These things are warned. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit, na martya-buddhyāsūyeta [SB 11.17.27]. Familiarity breeds contempt. That is not good. Similarly... Because by the mercy of ācārya, by the mercy of guru, you will get Kṛṣṇa. You sing that, kṛṣṇa-prāpti jāhā hoite, what is that? Kṛṣṇa-prāpti jāhā hoite. What is that language?



*Kṛta*-kṛta: That by his mercy he brings us close to Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: No, no, what is that Bengali language? You cannot... You are singing daily?



*Kṛta*-kṛta: Prema-bhakti jāhā hoite, avidyā vināśa jāte.



*Prabhupāda: Ah. Avidyā vināśa jāte, kṛṣṇa*-prāpti haya... So these are the things. Avidyā vināśa jāte. Avidyā means ignorance. We are full of ignorance. So guru's duty is to open the eyes, and by opening your eyes he will give you Kṛṣṇa. So this is the process. So you should be very much careful not to cheat Kṛṣṇa, not to cheat guru, and become very sincere and follow. Then it is guaranteed. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Two things required. You cannot jump over Kṛṣṇa, neglecting guru. Then it is finished. If you want to jump over Kṛṣṇa without favor of the guru, Kṛṣṇa is not so easy. So these things should be very carefully observed, no offense. Sincerely follow. Then Kṛṣṇa will protect, and your progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to go back to home, back to Godhead, will be assured, insured.



So this man circumstantially fell down. So Kṛṣṇa is saving him. Kṛṣṇa is saving him, and he will be saved. We shall see in the following passage.

Thank you very much. (end)



760528SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.28-29

-

Honolulu, May 28, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "Ajāmila then saw three awkward persons with deformed bodily features, fierce, twisted faces, and hair standing erect on their bodies. With ropes in their hands they had come to take him away to the abode of Yamarāja. When he saw them he was extremely bewildered, and because of attachment to his child, who was playing a short distance away, Ajāmila began to call him loudly by his name. Thus, with tears in his eyes, he somehow or other chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa." [SB 6.1.28-29]



*Prabhupāda: Sa pāśa*-hastāṁs trīn dṛṣṭvā puruṣān ati-dāruṇān. So, at the time of death there are so many disturbance. We have got experience, but you have forgot because bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. But these things are observed by the sinful person. The Yamadūta, they come to take to the sinful, sinful person, not devotees. Just like the whole population of the city, they are not all subjected to the prison laws. Some criminals. Similarly, this Yamadūta goes to such sinful persons. They are not all. But it is the question of Ajāmila... He was so sinful that automatically the Yamadūtas came, and they wanted to take him.



*The description of the Yamadūtas is there, that twisted face and very ugly*-looking, very fierceful, and with ropes in the hand. So naturally he was very afraid. And he was attached to his son, so naturally he wanted to call somebody to save him, so he called his affectionate son, whose name was Nārāyaṇa. This is the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa is so kind upon His devotee. This Ajāmila was in the beginning a devotee. Later on he fell down. But Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, is so kind that He gave him the dictation that "You keep your son's name as Nārāyaṇa," so that he'll be able to call the holy name Nārāyaṇa by calling his son. He was very much attached to the youngest son, whose name was Nārāyaṇa. So, unconsciously, he was chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, although he never meant that he's calling real Nārāyaṇa. He's asking his son, Nārāyaṇa, "My dear son, Nārāyaṇa, please come here, take your food, sit down here, play here, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa." This was practice. This opportunity was given to Ajāmila that, although he fell down from his standard of devotional service, but he got the opportunity of chanting "Nārāyaṇa." Ante nārāyaṇa smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. And when we are afraid of something, so we chant, we call somebody who is very dear. This is very psychological.

*So when he was too much afraid of this Yamadūta, unconsciously he chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa. So somehow or other he remembered Nārāyaṇa. Some commentator says that when he chanted "Nārāyaṇa," then all his reaction of sinful life immediately disappeared and he remembered real Nārāyaṇa. Because he, in his boyhood, was trained up as a Vaiṣṇava by his father, so some... There is big comments on this incidence. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has written three or four pages about this. So his opinion is that as soon as he chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, immediately he remembered real Nārāyaṇa. That this child Nārāyaṇa... "I'm calling my child, how he'll be able to save me from the hands of this Yamadūta." He remembered that "Nārāyaṇa, if He kindly helps me, then I can be saved." Immediately there was response. Immediately there is response. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajanty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that at the time of death, whatever your mental condition is, that will act.

*So this mental condition naturally is there what I practice throughout my whole life. So if we practice this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa name, then there is chance of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa at the time of death. That is the examination. In Bengali there is a proverb, bhajan kara sādhana kara murte jānle hoy. That is, "How you are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, that you'll be tested at your time of death." That is wanted. If we practice throughout whole life "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," then there is good chance of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, because at the time of death everything becomes disordered. The tongue becomes disordered, the mind becomes disordered. There is a verse by Kulaśekhara. He was praying to Lord, adyaiva me viśatu mānasa*-rāja-haṁsaḥ, prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ smaraṇaṁ kutas te [MM 33]. He was praying to the Lord, "My Lord, Mukunda, now I am healthy, very strong. Everything is all right. My mind is in order. My health is in order. So I am praying to You, let death come immediately so that I can soundly remember Your name. Otherwise natural death, it may be that on account of dissolution of the..., arrangement, physiological arrangement of the body..." Just like in sleep we forget everything. In sleep we forget everything. The subtle mind, intelligence work. I am sleeping in a nice bed, but mind and intelligence have taken me far away near the desert. And I'm seeing I'm in the desert. That is happening daily. Dream means the stock in the mind of our experience past, may be many, many years past, but the stock is there. Sometimes they come. That is dreaming. Just like you'll find in a lake all of a sudden... There is discussed in psychology also how this remembrance comes all of a sudden. The example is given just like in a lake all of a sudden you'll find there is a bubble. So similarly, the mind is the subtle matter. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano [Bg. 7.4]. This gross is this land, bhūmi, earth, straw. Water is a little more subtle. Just like in land you can stand, but in the water you cannot stand. It has become little subtle. Then fire, then air, and then ether. This is the position, from gross to subtle. And then mind. Still finer than the ether is the mind. And then intelligence. And then false ego, and then the soul. These are the different position.

*So we have to go to the platform of soul. That is spiritual education. But there are so many other stages. Somebody's stopping in the mind. He's thinking that this is the final. Philosophy, poetry, imagination, the mind mental... As we see that mostly your Western philosophers, they are stuck up on the platform of mind. That's all. They're thinking this is the final. So far I've studied only Socrates. He has reached up to the point of soul. Otherwise, all Western philosophers, they're on the mental platform. So anyway, we have to go farther, farther. So the dreaming is the function of the subtle body, namely mind, intelligence and false ego. You're not free, the subtle body. So those who have no knowledge how material things are acting, covering the soul, they utmost they can think of the mind, the activities of the mind*-thinking, feeling, willing, psychology, or writing some books, some mental speculation philosophy. They think this is final. That is not final. You have to go farther to the intellectual platform, then egoism, then soul. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:

indriyāni parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

buddhes tu ya para saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



Kṛṣṇa is giving all intelligence. That is, through gross understanding, this indriya, the senses.



*So those who are in the lowest stage of knowledge they are in the bodily concept of life*-the indriya, the senses. Just like cats and dogs, they cannot think more than that. So, but Kṛṣṇa advises, "No, don't stop here." Indriyāṇi parāny āhur [Bg. 3.42]. Bodily concept of life, sense pleasure, they think it is all. There is no more other. Those who are little above the bodily concept of life, they find pleasure in the mind. And farther, they find pleasure in intellectually. And in this way the thing is very complicated. It requires very cool brain to understand all these things. But those who are meat-eaters, they are very troubled. They cannot understand. For them the subject matter is very, very difficult. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

*nivṛtta*-tarṣair upagīyamānād

*bhavauṣadhāc chrotra*-mano-'bhirāmāt

*ka uttamaśloka*-guṇānuvādāt

*pumān virajyeta vinā paśu*-ghnāt

[SB 10.1.4]



*Paśu-ghna. Paśu means life, or living entity. Paśu-ghna, ghna means killer. So unless one who is killing himself or killing this animal... Both are killing. The killing of the animal in the slaughterhouse, that is gross killing. And another killing is one who is killing himself without knowledge. That is also killing. He got this human form of life, but without sufficient knowledge he's killing himself. Mām aprāpya. He cannot understand God. That is killing himself. This human form of life was given to him by nature's way, that "Now you understand God." But he's wasting time by surfing in the water. You see? He got the chance of understanding God*-he doesn't care for that. He's unnecessarily laboring whole day in the sea, so that he's developing the mentality at the time of, you think of swimming in the water, and the subtle body will carry him to the fish journey.



*The subtle body, the transmigration of the soul means when the gross body stops. The subtle body... Just like... This is very easy to understand. Little brain is required. Just like when you sleep, your gross body is on the bed, but the subtle body takes you somewhere. So the transmigration of the soul takes place carried by the subtle body. And mukti means when there is no more working of the subtle body also. This death, this elimination of this gross body, that is not mukti, because the subtle body will work and subtle body will carry you to the next gross body. The soul will be carried by the subtle body and, according to its mentality, nature will put him into the semina of a certain father, and the father will inject the semina within which the soul is there, and then again, with the mixture of ovam and semen there will be formation a pealike body, and the soul is there, and he'll develop. Then there will be nine holes and hands and legs, and when the complete he comes out, again begin your chapter*-either as cat, or as dog or as human being or as tree or as plant, as aquatics. There are so many, 8,400,000. So subtle body's working. Nature's work is so fine that everything... Just like this Yamadūta, immediately there, "Yes, we have come to take." Now if you become a criminal, if he comes attack, one has to phone to the police that "Here is a thief who has come." He does not... Nature's work is going on so nicely there is no necessity of phoning Yamadūtas. They will come. (laughter) But this rascal civilization do not know this, how things are going on.

*So this is going... Our whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that try to understand how the laws of God is working. That is religion. Don't remain fool rascal. There are three stages: the stage of ignorance, the stage of passion, the stage of goodness, and the stage of transcendence. There are different stages. So, after millions of births, nature gives us this human form of life when, if we try, we can understand in which stage I am standing. Yes. Either in ignorance or passion or goodness. And to understand this there are books. These books are there. So you have to study. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, anādi-bahir-mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa korila. The Vedas, this knowledge, for whom? Is it for the cats and dogs? No. They cannot read. They cannot understand. It is meant for men, and especially civilized men. Not for the crude men in the jungle. Those who are civilized*-for them. They are called civilized men, means another word is Āryan. For them it is. Just like Arjuna was chastised by Kṛṣṇa. When he did not like to fight He chastised him, "Non-Āryan." Kutas tvāṁ kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya juṣṭam. "You're talking like non-Āryan." Āryan means advanced. So if you claim to belong to the Āryan family, then it is your duty to study Vedic literature and understand your position and make your life successful. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



750714SB.PHI

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.30

-

Philadelphia, July 14, 1975



Nitāi: "My dear King, the order carriers of Viṣṇu, upon hearing the chanting of the holy name of their master, Nārāyaṇa, being offenselessly chanted by Ajāmila, who was in great anxiety at the time of his death, immediately arrived on the scene."



Prabhupāda:



niśamya mriyamāṇasya

*mukhato hari*-kīrtanam

bhartur nāma mahārāja

pārṣadāḥ sahasāpatan

[SB 6.1.30]



*So he was calling his son, Nārāyaṇa. So the pārṣadāḥ, viṣṇu-pārṣadāḥ-pārṣadāḥ means associates or attendants*-they immediately came. Just like in your city, the police is wandering in the car, and if somebody calls for police, immediately he is present, similarly, the attendants of Lord Viṣṇu, they are also wandering throughout the universe and searching out somebody who is engaged in chanting the holy name of the Lord. So if you chant holy name of the Lord, they are very much pleased and they immediately come. That happened to Ajāmila. He did not mean Nārāyaṇa. Maybe or may not be, but he was calling his son. But the attendants of Hari, or the order carriers, they took notice of the chanting only. That's all. They did not care to know by "Nārāyaṇa," Ajāmila, what he was meaning. No. Because they heard bhartur nāma, their master's name, they immediately appeared. This is clear.



*So anyone who is chanting the holy name of the Lord, he is taken care of immediately by the attendants of the Supreme Lord, especially at the time of death, because that is the last moment. The account is taken at the last moment. If you practice Hare Kṛṣṇa, naturally at the last moment you will be inclined to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. It is so nice. If we practice in this life chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then gradually my core of heart will be cleansed and everything will be manifest: my position, my duty, what is God. Everything will be manifest. It is so nice. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Because we are filled up with so many rubbish dirty things, we cannot understand the science of God. But if you be practiced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then your heart will be cleansed and you will see things as they are. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And as soon as we are able to see things as they are, then our material bondage is over. Because first of all I will see... People are making research work about the bodily cells, how they are working, and so many things, simply on the body. But as soon as you become cleansed of your heart, then immediately you understand, "I am not this body, so what is the use of studying the cells and atoms and this and that? I am not this body." Immediately. "Actually, I am not this body. I am simply wasting my time in studying." The same thing, example, that I am in the car, I am studying the machine only. I forgot my destination, where I have to go. I am busy with studying the car. What is the use? You must know. You have got a good car. You must know where is the destination, where you have to go. That is your business. The business... Of course, it is secondary. If you want to know what is the car, that is secondary; that is not your main business. The main business is how to utilize the car and go to my destination. That is intelligence.

*So we are fallen in this material condition in different forms. So long we are in this bodily concept, "I am this car," that is ignorance. I am not this car, but I have to utilize this car for going to my destination. That is wanted. So I am not this body. I am spirit soul. My destination is how to go to the spiritual world, how to meet the supreme spirit, God, and live with Him in His association. So this life is meant for understanding what is the Supreme Lord, where does He live, what does He do, what is my relationship with Him. This is called brahma*-jijñāsā. That is actual education. And I am given this machine. If we simply study the machine, then what is the use of it? The śāstra says that machine is working, and it will work until it is rotten. So you don't bother with the machine, but you simply appreciate that you have got now a good machine. The dog has got also a machine, and a human being has got a machine. Everyone has got a machine, living entity, but the śāstra says, "This machine should not be utilized like the dog's machine." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ... Everyone has got machine. Even an ant, it has got machine, because according to his desire, he has been given a body. That is also machine. An elephant has got a machine. I am also. I have got also machine. Every one of us, we are spirit soul, and relatively we have got different machine. So that machine is required for going from here. But we should not waste our time simply studying the machine, forgetting our destination. This is human intelligence. God has already given you a type of machine. Now utilize it to go to the destination.

*Nṛ*-deham ādyaṁ sulabhaṁ sukalpam. This nṛ-deham, this machine is very carefully made not by me, but by the nature. Nature is the agent of God. I wanted to do something. That means I require a particular type of machine. God orders nature that "This living entity wants something like this. You give him a machine." So the prakṛti, or the nature, gives us different types of machine. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. I am neither driving the machine; *neither I have made the machine. I have been given as gift to work on or to fulfill my desire. This is the position. So śāstra says that "You have got now a very good machine." Nṛ*-deham. The human form of body is very good machine. Nṛ-deham ādyaṁ sulabhaṁ sukalpam. It is very rare. With great difficulty, you have got this machine because we have to come through so many machines, the aquatics, the plants, the insects, the trees, and the serpents, reptiles, then birds, then beast, millions and millions of years. Just like you have seen this. The trees are standing there, maybe standing for five thousand years. So if you get that machine, you cannot move. You have to stand in one place. So we had to go through this. Foolish people, they do not know.

*Therefore this machine is sulabham. Sulabham means very fortunately we have got this machine. And sukalpam, "very nicely made." Those who are medical man, they see how nicely made it is, how the nerves are working, the nails are working, the intestines and the heart and everything*-a grand machine. Therefore it is called sukalpam, "very well planned." And what for? Just like a nice boat, well planned. If you have got a nice boat, you get on it and cross over the river or the ocean. Similarly, we are in this material ocean. Life after life we are struggling. So now we have got a nice boat, this human body. Sulabhaṁ sudurlabham. And it is specially advantageous because the breeze is very favorable. When you ply your boat, if the breeze is favorable, pushing on, that is another advantage, good boat and good breeze. And guru-karṇadhāram: "And the captain, steering man, is guru." He is giving instruction, "Row like this. Turn this way, that way." He is turning everything. So we have got this opportunity. If the boat is very nice, the captain is very nice, the breeze is very favorable, and even accepting or getting this nice boat, favorable, if we do not cross over the sea of ignorance, of material existence, then we are committing suicide. Sa ātma-hā. You get all the opportunities, and still you remain in this material world, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease? Is that very good intelligence? No. That is not good.

*So we are misled. We are engaged in studying the machine, that's all. Instead of using the machine to cross over the ocean, take the advantage, they are very busy in studying the machine. Is that very good intelligence? Machine is already given to you. You cannot study even. You do not know. Even if you study, you cannot say... I claim, "It is my body," and if somebody asks me, "How many hairs you have got in your body?" I cannot say. How I am eating something, how it is being turned into some secretion, it is going to the heart, it is becoming red and it is again distributed through the nerves and veins*-I do not know anything. I can simply theorize. But the machine is not under your control. The machine is made by God or by nature. It is very subtle machine. If you are very expert, the first thing is that what is the use of simply studying the machine? You got it. You utilize it for going to the destination. That is your intelligent. No, they forgot to use the machine for going to the destination; they are simply studying the machine. And that is going on in the name of science. What is this nonsense science? Simply busy in studying the machine.

*So that is our mistake. Our mistake is that we have got advanced or developed consciousness. We should utilize it for going back to home, back to Godhead. Why should we misuse it unnecessarily? And you are not perfect. Suppose you are studying the machine throughout the whole life. What you will get that? Can you make the machine to your favor that this machine will not be lost, there will be no death? You all scientists, you are studying the machine. Have you found out any means that there will be no death? Where is that knowledge. Death will be there. You study the machine or do not study the machine, in due course, time, the death will come and will take you. The machine will stay. So this is intelligence. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... [Bg. 13.9]. You cannot cure even one disease. You are embarrassed with the cancer disease. You find out how the cells are working, how it can be changed, and there will be no cancer. No, that you cannot do. You go on studying simply, waste your time. So śāstra says, "Don't waste your valuable time in that way. Try to understand God. Use your intelligence for this purpose." Tapaḥ. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. You have to undergo austerities that you may not be subjected to this machine. That is your business, not to study the machine. How to become independent of the machine. So long you are in this material world, you are desiring differently. Nature is supplying you a different type of machine, and you are busy. Then again, the machine is broken, then you accept another machine. This is going on.

*So your problem is to stop this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. Come to your spiritual life. That is your business. That is the instruction of the śāstra. The machine maintaining, everyone knows it. The dog knows how to maintain the machine. He eats according to the necessity of his doggish body. So we also know, human body. So that is natural. That is... The supplies are already there. You cannot manufacture supplies. That is the Vedic instruction: eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are many millions and trillions of living entities, and there is another living entity: that is God. So this another, one, singular number. There is no second, duplicate, of this one. But we ordinary living entities, we have got many millions of duplicates. Therefore two things are used: nitya, nityānām. Nityānām means plural number. Many, many, innumerable. You cannot count. Asaṅkhyā. The jīva is. Asaṅkhyā means nobody can count. And above this asaṅkhyā innumerable living entities, there is one prime living entity. God is also a living entity. He is also like us. In your Bible there is there: "Man is made after God." Is it not? So God is living entity, and we have got this form after the form... God is two*-handed; we have got two hands. So that is a fact. This human form of life is made according to the form of Lord. It is imitation; *that is real. Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. But we are thinking that God has no form. Why? Wherefrom you got your form? You are daily praying, "O God, O Father, give us our daily bread," and we accept God as the supreme father. So if I have got form, the father must have got form. It is reasonable. How you say, "There is no form"? This is all not very reasonable argument. God is also a living entity, but what is the difference between God and all these living entities? They are all dependent on God. That's all. God is great; we are small. Just like father maintains all the children, so we are all children, and the supreme father maintains. So if the children have got forms, so it is naturally concluded the father has got, even though you have not seen the father. Suppose a posthumous child, a child is born after the death or disappearance of the father. So that does not mean because he has not seen the father, he will conclude that "My father had no form." This is not conclusion. He should know from the mother that "Yes, my child, your father had form." So this is intelligence.

*So difference between this prime, or the Supreme Person, and these... Difference is that eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. We different living entities, we are planning differently. Just like children. Somebody is playing with the motorcar toy, somebody is something, somebody is..., a doll, and the parents are supplying, "All right, you take this doll. You take this. You take this. You take this." So we are playing like that, making plan. So God is supplying all the... But He wants that "My dear child, you are now grown up. You have got this human form of body. You don't play like this and waste your time. You take education and know things as they are." That is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta*-sūtra: "Now you have got human form of life. You try to understand what is God." That is the main business. Unfortunately, we are misled by blind leaders. We have been engaged in studying the body, that's all.

*So here it is said, niśamya mriyamāṇasya mukhato hari*-kīrtanam. So God very much appreciates when we use our tongue and mouth in glorifying or chanting the holy name. He very much appreciates. Because the name of God and God is not different, so immediately he becomes in touch with God. As soon you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately we are in touch. So He very much appreciated. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Śravaṇa means hearing, and kīrtana means chanting. So anyone who is chanting God's name and one who is hearing God's name, both of them are becoming purified, puṇya. Puṇya means piety. So simply by chanting... This is the example, that this man was addicted to so many sinful activities, and out of fear or out of his good luck, he chanted "Nārāyaṇa." Immediately the attendants of Nārāyaṇa has come to deliver him. And now there will be talk between the order carriers, attendants of Yamarāja and Viṣṇudūta, and that we shall discuss later on.

Thank you very much. (end)



760529SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.30

-

Honolulu, May 29, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "My dear king, the order carriers of Viṣṇu, the Viṣṇūdutas, immediately arrived when they heard the holy name of their master from the mouth of the dying Ajāmila, who had certainly chanted without offense because he had chanted in complete anxiety."



Prabhupāda:



niśamya mriyamāṇasya

*mukhato hari*-kīrtanam

bhartur nāma mahārāja

pārṣadāḥ sahasāpatan

[SB 6.1.30]



*So this is the benefit of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. Both the order carriers of Yamarāja and order carriers of Lord Viṣṇu, they're everywhere, just like the police is everywhere. But as soon as you call them, from the police's station they immediately inform the patrol police on the car, immediately he comes. If there is such material arrangement within the government, how much nice arrangement is there in the supreme government?



*So we have to practice this, that Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. If we practice, there is chance at the time of death repeating the same thing, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. So immediately you are saved, not to go to the yama-mandira. The powerful name, holy name is as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no difference-absolute. Absolute means... Just like here if I simply chant "mango, mango, mango," there is no mango. Mango is different from the name mango. If I want to eat mango, the substance mango I must have. So there is difference between the name and its substance. That is material-duality. But in the absolute world there is..., means there's no duality. The name mango and mango: the same. This requires advanced knowledge. So there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa the name and Kṛṣṇa the person. There is no difference. Otherwise this is practical. You're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Twenty-four hours you can chant, you'll never feel tired. But if you chant any other thing... [break]

*...etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ. God realization..., the atheist class, they say, "There is no God." But if you chant the God's holy name, you'll see God. There is no difficult process of... The Kali*-yuga especially, this is a special prerogative of this age because God realization is very, very difficult for them. But if you take advantage of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy... It is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy means it is perpetual. Not that because Caitanya Mahāprabhu has introduced the saṅkīrtana movement, therefore the name is as good as the person. No. It is always the name Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa, the name of the Supreme Lord, is as good as the Su... It is always. But in this age especially it has got special potency. That is because we are all very, very fallen souls. (child crying) (aside:) The child. We are very, very fallen souls. We cannot do anything. It is very, very difficult. Although at any time, as it is said before, kevalayā bhaktyā. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ [SB 6.1.15]. Simply by bhakti, devotional service, one can become liberated from all contamination. That's a fact, especially in this age. Otherwise why the Europeans and Americans, they will join this movement and chant if there is no effective measure? Why? They are not fools, rascals; they are educated. They're coming from respectable family. It is not that we are befooling them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. No. They are feeling ecstasy. It's a fact. Not blindly they are doing. Not only in one place, hundreds of centers. Why? That is the effect of chanting. If you chant, you get the effect, because the holy name and the Supreme Lord, there is no difference.

*That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says: nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija... God has many names. It is not that you have to chant only "Kṛṣṇa." No. If you have got any other name of God... Must be God's name. But they do not believe in God. Generally they think there is no God, or if there is God, God is dead. Something like that. And I don't think there is any definitive name in any other religious system. It is only in the Vedic system there is name. So anyway, if somebody thinks that "This Kṛṣṇa is an Indian name. Why shall I chant 'Kṛṣṇa'?" Well, you chant any other name, but it must be God's name. Then it will be effective. Just like immediately chanted "Nārāyaṇa." Not that one has to chant "Kṛṣṇa." "Nārāyaṇa" will do. "Govinda" will do. Must be God's name, because God and God's name... There are sahasra, one thousand Viṣṇu*-stotra. God has many names, hundreds and thousands. So any name you prefer, you chant, you'll get result. This is the perfect... God, factually, He has no name. How many names you will remember? But His names are given according to His activities. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is the best name. Why? That Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." This name can attract everyone. This is the most perfect. Although God has many names, out of many names the Kṛṣṇa name is mukha or the primary.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has introduced Kṛṣṇa name, kṛṣṇa*-varṇam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's identification is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kṛṣṇa-varṇam, kṛṣṇam varṇa iti, iti kṛṣṇa-varṇam (?). He is always chanting "Kṛṣṇa." He's Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ [SB 11.5.32]. The incarnation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu is described in the Eleventh Canto, Fifth Chapter. He's described. He has recommended in the śāstra that in the Kali-yuga this incarnation, this form of God, should be worshiped. What is that? That is here: kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ. He is always chanting "Kṛṣṇa,"and He's Kṛṣṇa. He belongs to the category of Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-varṇam. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ. But in this age His bodily complexion is not blackish, (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ saṇgopaṅgāstra-pārṣadam: [SB 11.5.32] accompanied by His associates. Just like there is Nityānanda, there is Advaita, there is Gadādhara. So saṅga upaṅgāstra-pārṣadam. Astra, astra means weapon. So saṅga... Because when God incarnates, He has got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. So one business is to give protection to the devotees and to annihilate the duṣkṛta, those who are sinful. So first annihilating, it requires weapon, śaṇkha, cakra, gadā, (indistinct). Lord Rāmacandra has got bows and arrows, and Kṛṣṇa has got Sudarśana-cakra. But here it is said, saṅga-upaṅga-astra. What is that astra, weapon? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has no astra. Seemingly there's a... But this is astra, this hari-saṅkīrtana. This is astra. In the Kali-yuga there is no profit by killing them. They're already killed. So therefore this is the astra. To kill the miscreants this is astra, this hari-saṅkīrtana. If they'll simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is astra that will kill all their sinful reaction of life, then become devotee. This is astra. Now it is not required the bows and arrows or... Because they're already dead, because they have no conception of God. Simply fighting how to avoid God, this is their business. It is very difficult to convince them about the existence of... They're seeing every moment there is existence of God, but they're so stubborn, so much bewildered by māyā, they'll not. So, under the circumstances, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's therefore called namo mahā-vadānyāya, most munificent incarnation. Why? Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Even without understanding Kṛṣṇa, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they become ecstatic for love of Kṛṣṇa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's benediction: no qualification, but if he simply chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra he'll be ecstatic. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te.

*To understand Kṛṣṇa is very difficult job. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many millions of persons, one is endeavoring to make his life perfect. But they do not know what is perfection of life. So yatatām api siddhānām. Siddhi means to understand that "I'm not this body. I don't belong to this material world." That is siddhi. Siddhi. Everyone is under the impression that "I'm this body." "I'm Indian," "I'm American," "I'm Hindu," "I'm Muslim," "I'm Christian"*-bodily upādhi, designation. He does not become free from the designation. The other day we were talking on Mr. Huxley(?) I think. He was talking of philosophy, but He was thinking, "I'm Englishman. I do this like that." So this bodily concept of life is there although he's philosopher. What kind of philosopher? Philosopher begins when there is no more bodily conception. What is that? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So this kind of philosophy has no meaning, because how a dog can become philosopher? That is not possible. A human being can become philosopher. So long I'm on the bodily concept of life, I'm in the line of cats and dogs. So how we can become philosopher? There is no question of. But they're philosophizing, means bluffing, and similar men, he's thinking, "I believe." You believe or not believe, the law will go on.

*So everyone is proposing "I believe." That's why the government law is there, that "If you do this, you'll be punished like this." That is government law. Suppose you have stolen something, committed theft, you must be punished for six months' imprisonment. So you believe or not believe, the law will act. If you say in the court, "I believe," what is the meaning of your belief? There's no question of belief. Law is law. Ignorance is no excuse. If you go in the court and if you're punished, so if you say, "My lordship, I believe like this. I'll not be punished. So you're punishing me," so that is no excuse. You believe or not believe, the law is law. So, similarly, these philosophers theorizing so many "I believe." So these things will not go. These things will not go. That is useless, simply waste of time. You must know there is God. How we can deny it? There is supreme power. I am being controlled every moment. Who wants to die? And who is forcing me to die? How he can deny the superior power? I do not want to become old man, and superior power forces me, "You must become old man." So, so long there is force behind you, you have to act according to that. Where is your so*-called belief or independence? That is foolishness. That is foolishness. But they have no brain that "I am being kicked. I'm being enforced to do something, and still I'm thinking 'independent,' 'I believe.' " What is this meaning of his belief? There is no question of. This is foolishness.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to educate man that you believe or not believe, it doesn't matter. There is God. There is the proprietor, but He's coming personally and He's saying, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaraṁ suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the proprietor, I am the enjoyer, and I am everyone's friend. If you want to be delivered from this miserable condition of material life, I am your best friend." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Kṛṣṇa. Because He's the father. Who can be better friend than the father? Ha? Father always wants to see that "My son is happy." That is natural. There is no begging, "Father, be kind upon me." No. Father is already kind. But if you revolt against the father, then you suffer. Similarly, God is our father, God is our friend, naturally, and He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving...," not only for the human beings*-all species of life, they are living entities. Then according to your karma, therefore different dresses. Just like we have got in this meeting different dresses. So (indistinct) human beings, the dress will be different. That is another thing. Similarly, the living entity is part and parcel of God, but someone has become human beings, some has become cats, someone has become tree, some as insects, some as demigods, some as (indistinct), some as the ant-varieties. Because they wanted to become like that, and God has given them the chance, "All right. You want to become like this and enjoy life? All right, you become like this." So this is arrangement that God is there, and He is everyone's father. He is everyone's friend. He is always ready. He's coming personally to canvas. He's so kind. Just hear, immediately.

niśamya mriyamāṇasya

*mukhato hari*-kīrtanam

bhartur nāma mahārāja

pārṣadāḥ sahasāpatan



*God has sent so many order carriers. Just see if one is inclined to come to Him. Just see. So as soon as the order carriers*-they're travelling everywhere-so "Here's a person, he's chanting 'Nārāyaṇa.' Come on. Take him." Just see. "Here this person is chanting 'Nārāyaṇa.' Yes." Bhartur nāma mahārāja niśaṁya. "Oh, it is wonderful. He's chanting 'Nārāyaṇa.' " Immediately Yamadūtas wonder, "Why they are disturbing him? Stop!"



So take this chance of chanting harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. You're always safe. The Yamadūtas, the order carriers of Yamarāja, will not be able to touch you. It is so (indistinct). So take this opportunity, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. I'm very glad that you are doing, but be very strict, sincerely chant. Your life is saved. Your next life is saved. Everything is all right.

Thank you very much. (end).



750716SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.31

-

San Francisco, July 16, 1975



Nitāi: "As the order carriers of Yamarāja were snatching out the soul from the core of the heart of Ajāmila, the husband of the prostitute, the order carriers of Viṣṇu forbade them with great resounding voices to do so."



Prabhupāda:



vikarṣato 'ntar hṛdayād

*dāsī*-patim ajāmilam

*yama*-preṣyān viṣṇudūtā

vārayām āsur ojasā

[SB 6.1.31]



*So when the order carriers of Yamarāja were trying to take away Ajāmila from this world to the other lower planetary system... Below this universe there are many planetary systems. They are called Pātāla, Atala, Vitala, Talātala, Rasātala, Mahātala, Sutala*-seven layers. So below that layers there is hellish planets. Just like up there are heavenly planets, similarly, down there are hellish planets. So Yamarāja, his kingdom, his jurisdiction, is within these hellish planets.



*So one point is very important. People are sometimes amazed, "Where is the soul?" Now it is clearly said here, hṛdayāt: "from the core of the heart." Therefore soul is existing within the heart. And the Paramātmā is also existing. The yogis, they want to see. Although they are, Paramātmā and jīvātmā, sitting side by side, and He is dictating, but on account of our foolishness we cannot see Him, neither hear Him. Antar*-bahiḥ. He is within and He is without, but unfortunate as we are, we cannot see Him either within or without. How it is possible? Just like a family member, your father or brother, is playing on the stage, but you cannot see him. Somebody is pointing out, "Here is your brother, dancing." You cannot see him. Naṭo nāṭyadharo yathā. Just like a person dressed in dramatic performance, his relative cannot see him, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Simply one has to make his eyes purified to see Him. Then he can see always Kṛṣṇa, within and without.

*Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. This seeing is possible only in bhakti, not in jñāna, karma. No. No other way. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. No other method is prescribed. In Bhagavad-gītā also, it is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa as He is, then you have to know Him through bhakti-yoga, not any other. Others, they may go on speculating for many, many millions of years. Still, they will not be able to understand.

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat prapada*-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*For many millions of years running in the speed of mind and air, not this aeroplane speed... Aeroplane speed is, utmost, five hundred, six hundred miles. But you just imagine the mind's speed. Ten thousand miles away your mind can go immediately at a place where you have been. Mind is so speedy. Vāyu, air, is speedy undoubtedly, but mind is still speedier. So even if you try to understand with the..., panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi [Bs. 5.34], in aeroplane or via manasa, aeroplane with the... Aeroplane has got different speed, but even if you go with the mind's speed and time, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara, hundreds and millions of years, still, you will not be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God, if you speculate. But if you are a devotee then you can see twenty-four hours Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ.



*So this dāsī*-pati, this is also significant word, "the prostitute's husband." Prostitute means... They are, in Sanskrit, called puṁścalī. Puṁścalī means they are moved by other men, puṁścalī. There are three kinds of women: sairindhrī, puṁścalī... In this way there are divisions. So some women, they are very easily carried by men. So that is not very good. Therefore I am instructing our GBC's that "Let our little girls be educated to become faithful and chaste." That is their qualification. No education required. And the boys should be trained up to become first-class men, śamo damas titikṣā, like that. And literary, Sanskrit and English, that will make them perfect. If the husband is first class and the wife is chaste and faithful, then the home is heaven. This is the formula. Dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgatāḥ.

mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante

dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam

dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti

tatra śrīḥ svayam āgatāḥ



*Everyone is trying to become fortunate. Now, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita gives three things, formula, "If you want to be fortunate, then do these three things." What is that? Mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante: "Do not give any credit to the rascal." That is first qualification. Don't be carried away by the rascal. Mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante. If you worship a rascal, then your life is spoiled. You must worship a really learned representative of God. That is very good. And dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam: "Food grains, they are properly stocked." Not that for your foodstuff, getting your food grain or earning your livelihood, you have to go hundred miles, fifty miles. No. At home, you produce your food grain and stock it. In India still, they work for three months during this rainy season, and they get their food grains for the whole year. You can save time so nicely. So these things are required for happy home. There must be food grains. You cannot be happy without eating. That is not possible. Annād bhavanti. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. If you have got sufficient anna, eatables, foodstuff, then you become happy.



*So three things: one thing, that at home no rascal should be received or given credit... According to Vedic system, at home a sannyāsī is welcome, a brāhmaṇa is welcome. Because they will give good instruction, so they are welcome. Just like when Gargamuni came to Mahārāja Nanda, Nanda Mahārāja's house, how nice reception he gave him. That is the... Especially... Of course, any guest is welcome, but especially a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī, is very well received. Still in Indian village, if a sannyāsī goes, he has no problem for eating or staying, residence. Everyone will request, "Swamiji, today you take prasādam at my place." So there are many villagers. So he can stay three days, four days. So there is no scarcity. Still they will invite you, "Please come. Take prasādam." So because... Why this system? Because sannyāsī means he will give good instruction, spiritual knowledge. But that is his business, parivrājakācārya, wandering all over the world and giving good instruction. Therefore parivrājaka. Parivrājaka means wandering, and ācārya means teacher. Parivrājakācārya. This is sannyāsī's business. So they must be well received. At the present moment, if a sannyāsī is trying to enter in some householder's house, immediately the doorman, "Please get out. Get out. Get out." Because some of the sannyāsīs, they have taken this dress as a means of livelihood. But still in the village, any sannyāsī*-he may be a cheater, still he is welcome. In the cities, of course, in India, they are now doubtful, "Whether he is actually sannyāsī or to fill up his belly he has taken this dress?" So this is the formula. So very learned men, the... generally, the sannyāsī and brāhmaṇas, they should be worshiped, not the fools and rascals.

*So mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante and dhānyaṁ yatra. Dhānyam means paddy, rice, well*-stocked. Perhaps you have, in your country also what is called, barn? That, you keep...

Devotee: Silo.



Prabhupāda: So you have got big, big stock. That is required. There may be scarcity at times, but if you keep stock, then there is no trouble. This one, no foolish rascal should be worshiped, food grains should be nicely stocked, and the third thing, most important, dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti: "There is no disagreement between husband and wife." If these three things are there, then you haven't got to pray to the goddess of fortune, "Kindly be merciful." She will automatically come. "Here is a very nice place. I shall stay here."



*So this Ajāmila, he was dāsī*-pati. He was a husband of a prostitute. So he was not happy. He was attached. Another thing is... That is also Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. He says, duṣṭā-bhāryā. Duṣṭā-bhāryā means this prostitute. Duṣṭā, who is polluted by another man, he is called duṣṭā. Strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkaraḥ abhibhavāt. Therefore human civilization must be very careful that the women may not become polluted. Strīṣu duṣṭāsu. Duṣṭā means she is not satisfied with husband. She wants new, new. That is called duṣṭā. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, duṣṭā-bhāryā: "If the wife is duṣṭā," duṣṭā-bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitram, "and friend is śaṭham, hypocrite, talking very friendly, but he has got something, design..." That is called śaṭhaṁ mitram. Śaṭham means hypocrite. So "If somebody's wife is duṣṭā and friend is hypocrite," duṣṭā-bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ bhṛtyaś ca uttara-dāyakaḥ, "and bhṛtya, servant, does not obey, he argues with the master..." Master says, "Why did you not do?" "Oh, I am this..." No argument. Bhṛtya should be very silent. Then he is faithful servant. Sometimes master may be angry, but bhṛtya should be silent. Then master becomes kind. But if he replies on equal level, oh, then it is very bad. Duṣṭā-bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ bhṛtyaś ca uttara-dāyakaḥ, sa-sarpe ca gṛhe vāsaḥ: "And you are living in a apartment where there is a snake." So if these four things are there or one of them, not all the fours, then mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ: "Then you are doomed." You are doomed. Your life is spoiled.

*duṣṭā*-bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ

*bhṛtyaś cottara*-dāyakaḥ

*sa*-sarpe ca gṛhe vāso

mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ



*So this man married a prostitute, duṣṭā*-bhāryā, and he learned how to cheat, how to become fraud, so many. We have already discussed. That was his business. And he was very nicely... He was thinking, "I am very nicely situated." In this way he was little attached to the youngest child. That was his fortune, that he was named Nārāyaṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa's kindness. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, so merciful to His devotee, that Uddhava says that "Kṛṣṇa is so kind that Pūtanā came to poison Kṛṣṇa..." She smeared poison on her breast. She made a policy that "I shall take this child very affectionately and push the nipple in His mouth, and as soon as the child will drink the poison, He will die." And Kṛṣṇa is so kind that although her motive was to kill Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa took the bright side. What is that? "Oh, I have sucked her breast, so she is My mother." Kṛṣṇa has taken that. And therefore, after death, Pūtanā got the same position as mother Yaśodā. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Who can kill Kṛṣṇa? So for Kṛṣṇa there is no black side or bright side. Kṛṣṇa can drink oceans of poison. So that He did not take very seriously, that "This witches have come to poison Me, but she has agreed to give Me milk from her breast. Then she is My mother." This is Kṛṣṇa's conclusion. Therefore Uddhava says, "Such a kind Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, that the enemy, the poison-giver was accepted as mother. So whom I shall worship except Kṛṣṇa?" This should be the conclusion, that "Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Little service..."



*So this Ajāmila... And in the beginning of his life we was being trained up by his father, first*-class brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava, but he fell a victim to the prostitute and he forgot everything. But Kṛṣṇa noted that "He has done something for Me." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Devotional service, if sincerely done, little only, that is also taken, just like the Pūtanā. She had no desire, but still, consciously, unconsciously, she gave some service. Similarly, we should try our best to give some service to Kṛṣṇa. If a little service is sincerely given, Kṛṣṇa takes note of it, and His business is protect you, even though you fall down just like Ajāmila. So Ajāmila fell down very deeply from the standard of brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava, but Kṛṣṇa saved him, that "This man has got very much attraction for the child. So let him have the name Nārāyaṇa." That dictation was given by Kṛṣṇa, that "Better keep your son's name 'Nārāyaṇa.' "

*So he was attached to the son, always chanting "Nārāyaṇa." "Nārāyaṇa, please come. Nārāyaṇa, please eat. Nārāyaṇa, please sit down." So at the time of death he loudly chanted, "Nārāyaṇa." He thought his son will save him from the hands of these Yamadūtas. But immediately Kṛṣṇa's attendants immediately came there, Viṣṇudūtas. And immediately they ordered, "You Yamadūtas, carriers of order, stop, you cannot do it." That is stated here. Yama*-preṣyān viṣṇudūtā vārayām āsuḥ: "Do not touch him." Ojasā: "very strongly." "If you touch, then you will be punished. Don't do it." (laughter) Ojasā. Ojasā. Ojasā means very strongly. Just like a master orders the servant, "You must do it," similarly, ojasā. This is the benefit of becoming Vaiṣṇava and chanting. If you chant offenselessly... This man had no offense. He was misguided accidentally, but he did not commit any offense. He did not perform all sinful activities, that "I am now chanting Nārāyaṇa, so it is being nullified. So let me go on doing these sinful activities and chant Nārāyaṇa." No, he did not do so. He did not know what is the benefit of chanting Nārāyaṇa's name. He did not know. So therefore, unconsciously, he was offenseless. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. If one thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and it is said, 'By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone's sinful reaction of life becomes nullified,' so let me do these two thing," oh, that is very great offense. Nāmno balād yasya. You have heard about ten offenses. This is the gravest offense.

So Ajāmila did not do that. He was foolish. He became victimized unknowingly. So he was committing sinful, means cheating others, became a fraud because he thought, "This is my livelihood." But he was affectionate to his son. He is always chanting, "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa," not purposefully, that "Let me chant Nārāyaṇa and commit all sinful activities." No, that is not. You should mark this. Therefore the Viṣṇudūtas came, that "He is not offender. He is innocent criminal." So therefore the Yamadūtas came and immediately, very forcefully ordered, "Do not touch Ajāmila." Now, the next discussion we shall... It is very interesting.

Thank you very much. (end)



760530SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.31

-

Honolulu, May 30, 1976



Pradyumna: "The order carriers of Yamarāja were snatching the soul from the core of the heart of Ajāmila, the husband of the prostitute. But with resounding voices the messengers of Lord Viṣṇu, the Viṣṇudūtas, forbade them to do so."



Prabhupāda:



vikarṣato 'ntar hṛdayād

*dāsī*-patim ajāmilam

*yama*-preṣyān viṣṇudūta

vārayām āsur ojasā

[SB 6.1.31]



*So the Yamadūtas were dragging Ajāmila*-not this body, but the soul. Body will stay there, but the soul (indistinct). Now wherefrom? Vikarṣato antar hṛdayād. From the core of the heart. Now, from the śāstra you can understand where the soul is. Soul is not in the brain, not in the here, there. No. Therefore when the soul is taken away, going away from the heart, we say "heart failure." Heart failure means the soul has gone. The soul lives in the heart. This is proof from the śāstra. Not only the soul, but the Supersoul also is there. Supersoul is God, Kṛṣṇa, and the individual soul, they're living together. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, He's also there, very minute form, aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. The dimension of the soul is also mentioned in the śāstra: one ten thousandth part of the tip of a hair.



*keśāgra-śata*-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīvaḥ bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

[Cc. Madhya 19.140]



*Very minute. So just see that minute portion of God is so powerful. Ha? Just like potassium cyanide. Minute quantity, if you take one grain, immediately you'll die. Immediately you die. Similarly, if some ordinary material thing is so powerful, just imagine the spirit soul, how much powerful he is. And they have no machines to find out. How they will find out? One ten-thousandth part of the hair, we cannot see-the tip of the hair is so small*-and divided into ten-thousandth part. That one part is dimension of the soul. Everything is there in the śāstra, Upaniṣads. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīvaḥ bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ [Cc. Madhya 19.140], and... It is very powerful. We can take the example that very minute quantity of potash cyanide. There is no taste. In chemical analysis there is a taste. So up to date, nobody has tasted potash cyanide, because as soon as chemist will taste, immediately, he'll not be able to say what is this. (laughing)



*So you have to understand from the śāstra, śāstra*-cakṣuṣa. The Vedas say that you have to see through the śāstra, through the authoritative śāstra. With these blunt eyes what can you see? You're so much anxious. Everyone says, "Can you show me God?" What you can see? What is the power of your eyes? You cannot see even your eyelid. The eyelid is attached to the eye. Can you see? So how you can see God? You're so imperfect. Just like if there is some particle within the eyelid, we become embarrassed. But the eye is attached. Why not see and take it away? This is practical. So what is the power of your eyes? You cannot see the nearest and you cannot see distant place. You cannot see in darkness. So many conditions. So you're always under the conditions, and you declare "Independent." How foolishness it is. Your senses are all imperfect. No senses are perfect. You can use the senses under certain condition only. I'm claiming "This is my hand," and as soon as there is some nervous disability it is paralyzed, finished.

*So actually we are claiming that "This is mine," but you have no right to claim it. You're dependent. Suppose if you live in a rented apartment, you cannot claim that this is your apartment. It belongs to the landlord. You're allowed to stay here under certain conditions. You're not proprietor. Similarly, this body is Kṛṣṇa's. What is this body? Bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir.... [Bg. 7.4]. It is constituted of these things: earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and ego. And Kṛṣṇa says, bhinna me prakṛti aṣṭadhā: "These are Mine, My things." You cannot create water. You cannot create earth. You cannot create fire. You cannot create ether. Nothing. So this body is pañcabhūta, five elements. So you have not created. Kṛṣṇa has created. So how it is your body? It is Kṛṣṇa's body. He has given you the concession that you can live. "You can live peacefully. You can enjoy the products which are given to you. I have given you food grains. I have given you fruits, flowers. Or, even if you want to eat meat, that also I have given you." You cannot produce an animal. So everything you are eating, given by God. Your body is given by God. Your mind is given by God. And you, you also the soul, you're also part and parcel of God. So what is your independent existence? There is no independent existence. This is knowledge. Not only that. Because you have forgotten that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, He is also sitting within you. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣ... Again He says hrdi, "in the heart." Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭa, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Everything is there. The Lord and the living entity, both are within his heart.

*So those who are yogis, they want to find out that "God is sitting with me. Let me see by meditation." That is yogi's business. Dhyānāvasthita tad gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogina. This is yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita tad gatena manasā paśyanti. Not that manufacturing something nonsense, just so that you'll be stout and strong to enjoy sex, or your power of business brain will expand. This is not yoga. These all bluff. Real yoga system is to find out within the heart where is God. My business is that I've forgotten God. The karmīs, they..., karmīs, real karmīs, they do not forget. The upstarts, the rascals, they forget. Karmīs also... Just like they go to church or to go to temple, they ask some favor from God. Ārto arthārthī jñānī jijñāsuḥ. Catur*-vidhā bhajante mām. In the Bhagavad-gītā everything explained: four kinds of men begins God consciousness. And what kind of man he is? Sukṛtina, one who has background of pious life, not the rogues and rascals. Little pious activities one has done. Ajñāta-sukṛti. So far everyone has got some charitable disposition of mind, in that disposition of mind, if by chance he gives to some Vaiṣṇava some money, that becomes a credit. That is called ajñāta-sukṛti. He does not know that "I am getting some..." Of course people, they pay to saintly person, brāhmaṇa, that datavyam iti yad dhānam: "Here charity should be given." So that charity goes into his credit. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām sukṛtino 'rjuna-those who have got background of pious life. So even one goes to the church, "God, give us our daily bread," he's not ordinary person. He's pious man. He has gone to God to ask. He has not gone to anyone. No. "My Lord, I'm very poor man. I have no money. Kindly give me some money." That also accepted. Of course, he should not be foolish, that "God is giving me everything without asking, so why should I bother God, asking?" That is advanced devotion. Therefore pure devotee, they do not ask anything from God. They simply want to give service. "Why should I ask? God knows my necessities." He says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. My duty is, this body belongs to God, I belong to God, my mind belongs to God, everything belongs to God. And I simply have to offer, "My dear Lord, I have brought this little flower, this fruit, kindly accept it." Nothing belongs to you. The fruit is God's. The flower is God's. You are God's. Simply you have to change your consciousness. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything is given by God. You have not manufactured the fruit or flower or your body or... Nothing. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when you understand that "Everything belongs to God. Why it should be utilized for other purpose?" It should be utilized for God.

There is another example. Just like somebody drops his money bag, unconsciously drops. So somebody picks up and he thinks, "Oh, here is so much money. Put it in my pocket." (laughter) He's a thief. He's a thief. That is karmī. Karmī is trying to simply take from God's property and putting in his own pocket. That is karmī. "Bring me more. Bring me more. Bring me more." And the jñānī, he sees that one purse is there, somebody has left, so "Why shall I touch it? Let it remain there." He doesn't touch anyone's property. Jñānī: "Why shall I be criminal? Let it remain." He's jñānī. But a bhakta, he finds a purse, so what his duty? He does not put into the back pocket, neither he throws away, let it be there. He finds out, "Who is the proprietor? Who is the proprietor?" So he can ask somebody if anyone has lost anything. So somebody says, "Yes, yes. I have lost my purse." So you can examine whether it belongs to him: "I will now examine it." "Sir, here is the purse." "Yes, it is mine." So these three men, who is best? Ha? The man who takes the purse and puts in his pocket, he, or the man who neglects, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "Why shall I touch? It is mithyā. This is false." Eh? He is good? Or whoever puts in the pocket, he is good? Or one who finds out and gives to the proprietor? Who is good?

Devotee: The honest man.



Prabhupāda: The last one, devotee. Therefore devotee's business is to know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa; it must be used for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He's neither tyāgī or bhogī. Bhogī means takes the thing and utilizes for his own sense gratification. That is called bhogī, sense gratification: "Oh, I have got this bag. Very nice. It will help me in going to the restaurant for (indistinct)." That is bhogī. And tyāgī means "Oh, this is all material. Why shall I touch? Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I'm Brahman. I am nothing."(laughter) He's better than the rascal who takes the money and uses his own purpose, karmī. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, (Bengali). The jñānī, he does not touch anyone's property. That is very good. Then the karmī, because karmī takes other's property and utilizes it for his own purpose. But bhakta is neither karmī nor jñānī.



*So there are two kinds of religious systems. The karmīs... Karma*-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa. The Vedas, there are three kāṇḍas; *therefore Vedas' name is trayi. Trayi means there are three different phases of activities*-karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa and upāsana-kāṇḍa. That is the teaching of the Vedic literature. So when Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vrāja... [Bg. 18.66]. Because there are two kinds of men in this world. One is karmī, and one is jñānī. Karmīs are trying to use all the money of the world and utilize it for sense gratification. They are karmīs, sarva-kāmo... They're described in the śāstra-sarva-kāmo. Akāmaḥ sarvo-kāma, mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ. So when Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān patityajya, sarva means "all." So generally, in the material world two things are going on. The karmīs are busy try to earn money for their sense gratification, and the jñānīs, they've given up the world as mithyā. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Brahman is truth, and this is all mithyā." So Kṛṣṇa said, "You give up all this business." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vrāja: "You do everything for Me. That's all. Don't utilize the assets of the world for your sense gratification, neither you give it up as mithyā. Why mithyā? I've created." Why it should be mithyā? Mithyā means false. Whatever God has created, that is not false, everything. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness view is that everything created by God is not mithyā. It is fact. Everything is fact. We don't say unnecessarily, "This is mithyā. This is false." Why it is false? God is truth. If He has created anything, that is also truth. Why it should be false? That is Vaiṣṇava view. Truth does not come out of untruth. Truth comes from truth. Something comes from something; something does not come from nothing. This is voidism.

*So we should not be impersonalists. We should not be voidists. Nirviśeṣa śūnyavādī. Śūnyavādī means voidist, and nirviśeṣa means impersonalist. The whole world is going on like that. So we should be careful about this voidists and impersonalists. We should take direct instruction from Kṛṣṇa, and He advises, yat karoṣi, yat juhoṣi, yat aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tat mad*-arpaṇam: "You can do whatever you like, but the result should be given to Me." karmāṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadā... "Then you become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Of course, Kṛṣṇa does not advise that "You become a thief, and all the money stolen, you bring to Me." He does not say that. That is not. But even if you are a thief, still you can offer. Don't use it for your sense gratification. Yat karoṣi. "Whatever you've got. If you cannot earn honestly, dishonestly, you give it to Me."

*So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and from this verse we can understand that the ātmā, the soul, is within the heart. Why they are searching the soul? So the... If you want to find out where is soul, and if you dissect the heart, then soul is gone. (laughter) That is another danger. (laughs) Better understand from the authority. That is knowledge. Śāstra*-cakṣuṣā. Śāstra... From authoritative statement of śāstra you'll see. Don't see by your blunt eyes, rascal, this consciousness. Then you'll never find the actual fact. Śāstra-cakṣuṣā, authority. Just like here. Śāstra says, "Here is the soul." The Yamarāja is snatching, dragging the soul, not his leg or hand. There's no business. As soon as the soul is gone, the leg and hand and everything becomes a lump of matter. That's all. What is the use of it? So vikarṣato 'ntar hṛdayād, antar-hṛdayād, core of heart. Antar means within the heart. Antar-hṛdayād dāsī-patim. Nowadays, sometimes one becomes a prostitute. That is very usual now. But in India still, nobody will marry a prostitute. Nobody. Still. In the Western country, never mind he's a prostitute, she's a prostitute, if she marries-Ph.D. certificate, that's all. So this is old custom. Once one girl becomes prostitute, she'll never be touched. Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives. Kṛṣṇa can do anything. That is another thing. So these sixteen thousand girls were kidnapped by that Bhaumāsura. So without finding any way how to escaped from this asura's hand, they appealed to Kṛṣṇa that "You save us. This is our position." So Kṛṣṇa is bhakta-vatsala. He came and released them and killed the Bhaumāsura and asked them, "Now you can go to your father's house." So they began to cry. Why? "Now our fathers will not accept us because we have been kidnapped." Just see. "We have been kidnapped. I have no right to go to the father. And we're not married also." "Then, what you want?" "You kindly marry us." "All right. Come on." (laughter) This is Kṛṣṇa. Yes. "You have no shelter. You're taking My shelter? Come on. I shall give you all palaces. Come on." This is Kṛṣṇa. Take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Never mind what is your position. Kṛṣṇa will accept you and give you all comfort. Ahaṁ tvaṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. He will not kick out, even you are a prostitute. "I will give you protection." So why shall..., we should not take shelter of Kṛṣṇa? This is very natural conclusion.

Thank you very much. (end)



701216SB.SUR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.32

-

Surat, December 16, 1970



Prabhupāda:



ke yūyaṁ pratiṣeddhāro

*dharma*-rājasya śāsanam

ūcur niṣedhitās tāṁs te

*vaisvasvata*-puraḥ saraḥ

[SB 6.1.32]



So the constables of Yamarāja inquired from the Vaikuṇṭhadūta, the messengers of Vaikuṇṭha, that yūyaṁ pratiṣeddhāraḥ: "Why you are interrupting in our business?" Pratiṣeddhāro. Pratiṣeddhāraḥ. Pratiṣeddhāraḥ means the opposing elements. "Why you are opposing? We are Yamadūta. It is our duty to take away a sinful man, sinful soul, like Ajāmila, who has simply acting misdeeds throughout his whole life. Now, at the end of his life, we are authorized to take him to the Yamarāja. Why you are preventing us? Why you are interrupting in our business?"



kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ

kasmād asya niṣedhatha

kiṁ devā upadevā vā

*yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha*-sattamāḥ



*So because the Viṣṇudūtas were very beautiful, four*-handed, exactly resembling Lord Viṣṇu... As I have explained, in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka all the inhabitants, their feature of the body are exactly like Lord Viṣṇu, four-handed, with conchshell, lotus flower, club, and disc. So they never saw Viṣṇudūta before, these Yamadūtas, because they go in an atmosphere where sinful activities are executed. But this time they were astonished, that "How these beautiful personalities are here?" Kiṁ devā upadevā vā yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha-sattamāḥ. So, "Will you kindly let us know wherefrom you are coming? Are you coming from the Siddhaloka planet or heavenly planet?" Because in the material world nobody knows that there is a spiritual sky beyond this material sky... As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmād tu bhava anyaḥ: "There is another nature." This is one nature, material nature, where millions and trillions of universes are clustered together in the corner of the spiritual sky. This is only one universe, within which there are innumerable planets. But there are millions and trillions of universes also. That is material creation. Material creation means one-fourth part of the whole creation. Three-fourths part is spiritual creation. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "This whole material world is existing in one fourth of My energy." kiṁ devā upadevā vā bhṛśaṁ kiṁ siddha-sattamāḥ.



*Sarve padma*-palāśākṣāḥ. They were very much satisfied by seeing the Viṣṇudūtas. Just like in your country they are very much satisfied by seeing your face. They have named you "bright-faced." Why? You are naturally very beautiful, but they understand, your countrymen, that you have become more beautiful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's a fact. (aside): You can sit down there. This is disturbing. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that naturally it will make you beautiful, not black-faced, not morose-beautiful face. That is the sign of spiritual advancement. By the face you'll understand that "Here is a man who is spiritually advanced." Pratyakṣam avagamaṁ dharmyam. This process of spiritual consciousness can be directly perceived. It is not theoretical: "Oh, I am a very great devotee." No. Simply theoretical understanding, "I am a great devotee..." From the very face it will be understood. Face is the index of mind, how you are thinking. If you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa always, then your face will be beautiful. Therefore it is called pratyakṣam avagamaṁ dharmyam, direct perception. There is no theoretical. It is practical. Pratyakṣyam avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su-sukham.

*Then to become such spiritually advanced, is it very difficult task? No. Su*-sukham: very easy and very happy. How it is happy? Happy because this spiritual consciousness is developed by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is very pleasing. With music, with musical instrument we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. There is no trouble. Even a child can take part, experience. A child also claps; he also dances. So what can be easier method than this? Any other method you take, you have to exercise, you have to tax your brain, press your nose, or so many other things. But here automatically you chant before ārātrika and you become spiritually enlightened. Even the child becomes. Therefore it is susukham, very happy to execute. Susukham kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. And whatever you do, little, that becomes a permanent asset, avyayam. It is never to be vanished. Even one percent of devotional service you execute, it will help you again to begin from that point.

*So here is a description of the Vaikuṇṭha*-puruṣā. Sarve padma-palāśākṣāḥ: "Your eyes are so beautiful, just like petals of the lotus flower." And pīta-kauśeya-vāsasaḥ. Saffron and yellow. These two kinds of colors of garments because... Those who are Māyāvādīs, impersonalists, they cannot understand that there is another spiritual world and there are spiritual planets, and their inhabitants, their bodily features are like this, their dress are like... Everything is there. But unfortunate persons, they cannot understand. They think everything is here. They are that kūpa-maṇḍūka, frog philosophy, that the frog in the well, he cannot understand beyond that well. Similarly, these materialistic persons, frog, they cannot understand that there is a Pacific Ocean, or spiritual world. They are satisfied with this well, three-cubic-feet well. That's all. And simply imagining, "God may be like this, may be like this, may be like this, and therefore I am God." So God is so easy that "Everyone is God. God is loitering in the street as daridra. God as Nārāyaṇa has become that poor, and I am so rich that I can provide Nārāyaṇa also." This is going on.

*So, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Persons who are very much influenced by this materialistic way of thought, āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ, such persons are always engaged in misdeeds, duṣkṛtina. Misdeeds. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Why they are engaged in misdeeds? Because mūḍha. They do not know what is the responsibility of this human form of life. They are simply wasting their life in animal propensities, mūḍha. Mūḍha is the symbol of an ass. He does not know. The ass does not know why he is working so hard for the washerman. He carries a very heavy load, but he does not know "Why I am carrying so much heavy load?" That is the symbol of an ass. If you work so hard, you must know what benefit you are deriving out of it. But the ass does not know. Similarly, the karmīs, they are very busy, very busy accumulating wealth. But he does not know what for he is doing so, why he is so laboring hard. Ṛṣabhadeva says that this life, human form of life, is not meant for so much hard working. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Why people are taught to work so hard? Simply for morsel of bread and little sense gratification. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that that is done by the hogs and dogs. Daily they are whole day and night working: "Where is some food? Where is some stool?" But that human form of life is meant for that purpose, working hard, so hard like hogs and dogs simply for fulfilling the belly and having sex life? No. So they should be taught for tapasya. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. Ṛṣabhadeva was advising, instructing His sons, "My dear boys, this life is meant for tapo-divyam, for spiritual realization, austerity. That should be taught."

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching that tapaḥ. Tapaḥ means you have to accept voluntarily some difficulties. Actually it is not difficulty because... Just like somebody smoking, and we are advising, "Don't smoke." The smoker may feel some inconvenience. But if he voluntarily suffers that inconvenience, that is called tapasya. Actually he will not die, but because he is practiced to so many nonsense habits, he feels difficulty to give it up. From the birth he is not a drunkard, from birth he is not a smoker, but by bad association, so*-called civilized association, he becomes a drunkard, he becomes a smoker, he becomes a woman hunter, he becomes a gambler-sinful life. So to advance in spiritual life one has to give up all these sinful activities; *otherwise it is not possible. Some rascal says that "You can do whatever you like. It has nothing to do with your religiousness." This is nonsense. Religious life means to approach God, and God is pure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Pavitra. Kṛṣṇa is addressed by Arjuna, pavitram. In the Upaniṣad it is said, Īśopaniṣad, apāpa-viddham. God cannot be infected by sinful activities. That is God's... Just like we are infected by sinful activities, God is not like that... There is Absolute. So He is always pure. So we have to make ourselves purified before we can approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So these are sinful activities: illicit sex life and meat-eating, unnecessarily killing the animals. Why should you kill animals? If God has given you so many nice foodstuffs-varieties of fruit, varieties of grain, sufficient milk-why should you take to this obnoxious foodstuff? But it is ill luck, unfortunate. By ill association you have learned all this nonsense. So therefore one has to give up these nonsense habits. That is called tapasya. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1].

*Why tapasya? Divyam: for spiritual realization. Why it is necessary? Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattva. Your existence will be purified because... Just like in diseased condition we cannot relish very palatable foodstuff. A man, jaundice, suffering from jaundice, if you give him something just like candy, sugar candy, he'll taste it as bitter because he is suffering from jaundice. But sugar candy is not bitter. Similarly, in our diseased condition, this material body, actually you cannot taste real happiness. That is not possible. Therefore we have to cure the disease. Bhagavad*-gītā therefore says curing the disease means janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-doṣa..., kleśa-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Those who are actually advancing in spiritual life, they should always keep in front that "We may advance in so many things, but these four things-birth, death, old age, and disease-cannot be solved by our so-called material advancement of science." And Bhagavad-gītā points out that you should always keep these four principles of misery in front. Then you'll be able to advance in spiritual path. And if you become callous-"Oh, death takes place. What is that?" Why you should die? You are not subjected to death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Even after the destruction of this body you do not die. "Then why should I accept this material body?" This is intelligence. This is science. "I do not want to be old. Why I become old?" Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. Because the living entity is eternal, so why he should become old? Kṛṣṇa never becomes old. Kṛṣṇa's picture you have never seen old. Similarly, you also cannot become old.

*So these questions do not arise. They are simply, I mean to say, engrossed with animal propensities*-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending-as if these are the problems. These are no problems. We have created these problems. Eating is no problem. The animals, they do not endeavor for doing some work for eating. Eating is already there. The birds, beasts are eating. Similarly, human body, eating is there. For example, we are, these forty heads, we are traveling. So eating is already there. Before our coming, our Padubhai(?) has arranged for our eating. So why should we think for eating? So, but actually that is the fact. There is no problem of eating. They have created this problem. God has given enough food. In America they throw away foodstuff in the ocean. You see. This is nonsense. Because they have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they do not know that these food grains belong to Kṛṣṇa. He has sent. So instead of throwing in the ocean, it should be dispatched to the countries where there is scarcity. There cannot be any scarcity. Pūrṇam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. Everything created by God is sufficiently pūrṇam. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam. It is... There is arrangement of raining; *there is arrangement of producing. We simply, so*-called rascals, so-called politicians, they have created all this trouble for their political ambition. Just like our politicians created the Pakistan and Hindustan. So all the foodstuff is there in Pakistan. Rice is in East Bengal and wheat is in East Pakistan. So this Hindustan is in shortage, in short of wheat and rice. So this is the creation of the politicians. By God's arrangement everything is complete. Therefore you have to change the whole consciousness of the people if you want to be happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Devotee (1): You were talking about Ajāmila, and I would like to know what is the difference between the planetary systems that the earth here, or the universe. Is the planetary system the universe, or is there something beyond the planetary system which it is situated in? I do not not understand the difference between planetary system and the universe.



*Prabhupāda: Universe is a covering just like a football, and within that, there are planetary system. And these football*-like universes, they are floating in the Virajā water, where Mahā-Viṣṇu is lying. So each universe is covered.



Revatīnandana: Like a coconut?



Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.



Revatīnandana: Like a coconut half filled with water?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Jagad-aṇḍa. Jagad-aṇḍa means this universe, aṇḍa, round sphere(?). Koṭi. Koṭi means innumerable. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. And in each of them there are innumerable planets, and each planet, the atmosphere is different from one another. Vibhūti-bhinnam. Just like sun planet. It is a different thing from this planet, but... And the moon planet is a different thing from this planet. And the scientists, they are thinking that the sun planet being fiery, there cannot be any living entity. No. There are. There are living entities. Their bodies are also fiery. Fire is also one of the elements. Here we have body with material elements. Major portion is earth, and there major portion is fire. So somewhere major portion is water. So therefore there are vibhūti-bhinnam, different atmosphere. That is God's creation.



*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



Govinda's bodily rays is brahmajyoti. The impersonalists, by their ascending process they realize brahmajyoti and they think, "This is end." No. You have to go further, further. Brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the," what is called, "reservoir, or the background of this brahmajyoti." Background. Because Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore brahmajyoti is there. You'll find always in Kṛṣṇa's picture there is a auri. It is called auri?



Haṁsadūta: Aura.



Prabhupāda: Aura.



*Revatīnandana: When Kṛṣṇa appeared... I think the translation in Bhagavad*-gītā begins that "I am the source..."



Prabhupāda: (aside:) Sit down.



Revatīnandana: That "I am the source of impersonal Brahman, which is eternal, and the constitutional position of ultimate happiness." Does that mean that because everything in the spiritual sky is situated in the brahmajyoti, that therefore it is the position of ultimate happiness?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: Or is it because Kṛṣṇa is situated in the spiritual sky, therefore the spiritual sky is the position where there is ultimate happiness to be found?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: That is the understanding?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual sky you will find happiness, real happiness. In the material sky there is no happiness. How it can be happiness, because the four things are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]? If you think it is happiness in spite of your death, then you are a fool. You do not want to be a dead man, but you are forced to accept death. You do not want to become old man, but you are forced to accept. And these things, if you accept-happiness*-that is your foolishness. Vyādhi. Jarā-vyādhi, disease. If you are constantly suffering from various types of diseases and if you think you are happy, that is another foolishness. Therefore Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam, that "All the foolish persons who are born foolish, all their activities are defeat for them unless they are enlightened to inquire about ātma-tattvam."



*So in the modern education there is no department for inquiring about ātma*-tattvam. And they are proud of advancement of learning. But Bhāgavata says, parābhava: "These are all defeat." They do not know what is ātmā, what is ātma-tattva. They are identifying, "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Gujarati," "I am Bengali," "I am this," "I am that." Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who identifies himself with this body, he is nothing but ass and cow. And that is going on. We are fighting, nations and nations, community and community, religious party and religious party-because due to the misidentification of body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins when one is above this bodily concept of life. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. These are upādhis, designations. So these Kṛṣṇa conscious boys and girls, they are no longer thinking that "I am American," "I am Canadian," "I am French," "I am German." No. "I am Indian." No. They know certainly that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. I am eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa." And that is our real identity. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are no more interested to be identified as American or European. And this is knowledge. And this is mukti. If one is under the misconception that "I am American," "I am Indian," then how there is mukti? There is no mukti. Mukti means svarupena avasthiti, to stay in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti.

*So this movement is very important movement. Everyone should seriously study and execute this. Don't be carried away by the illusory ideas of material existence. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. It is very easy. If you simply chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]-immediately all the misconception within your heart will be cleansed. This is misconception: "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Gujarati," "I am Bengali." These are all misconceptions. You are part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is your identity. So that can be realized. The easiest process is this chanting Hare... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam. And next stage is that the blazing fire of this material existence will be extinguished immediately. Here in our disciples you'll find Americans, Europeans, Japanese, Africans. They are all absorbed in Kṛṣṇa thoughts, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They have lost all these misgivings, upādhi, designations, nonsense designations. The nonsense designation is the cause of their bondage. So let us realize that we are not this, not this. We are eternally... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately says, gives to you the highest philosophy, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Taṭastha-śakti jāta acintya bhedābheda-prakāśa. In two lines He has given the whole idea of jīva-tattva. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa. You can explain in so many books these two lines. The real identity of the living entity is that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa.

Haṁsadūta: What is the second line? Jīvera svarūpa...



*Prabhupāda: Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa, taṭastha-śakti acintya bhedābheda, taṭastha-śakti prakāśa. The jīva is the manifestation of the marginal potency of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has many potencies. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]*-in the Vedic injunction. The Absolute Truth has many varieties of energy. Those energies are consolidated into three divisions: spiritual energy, material energy and marginal energy. So these jīvas are products of this marginal energy, bhedābheda prakāśa. Bhedābheda means... bheda means different, and abheda means one. So jīva is one and different simultaneous. He is one in quality; he is different in quantity. So when you are free from all these designations,



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*At that time, when we are purified, when we have purified our senses, when in that sense we shall engage ourself in the matter of satisfying the owner of the senses, Hṛṣīkeśa-Kṛṣṇa is Hṛṣīkeśa*-that is called bhakti. Bhakti is not a sentiment. Bhakti is practical, by purified senses ... Kṛṣṇa's birth... Kṛṣṇa is born as son of Devakī. So how do you explain that His birth is transcendental? How do you explain? Anyone can explain. Kṛṣṇa says that "My birth is not ordinary birth. It is transcendental." But we see that He is born of father, mother, He accepts father, mother. Now, how it is transcendental?



Haṁsadūta: You explained, just like the sun rises... Like the sun rises every morning and it appears to our eyes that sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not there, but actually it's always there, Kṛṣṇa is always there.



Prabhupāda: (aside:) (Hindi) So I am very glad that you have come early in the morning. So what is the transcendental? That is an example, but what is the transcendental nature of His birth? (Hindi)



Devotee (1): That He has appeared many, many times.



Prabhupāda: You also appear many, many times.



Devotee (1): But by His yogamāyā He appears as a child, an ordinary child, but He did not appear as an ord... He is not an ordinary child. This material nature is always under His direct control. And even if you accept that He takes a material body, He does so of His own free will. He does not do so, forced by the modes of material nature.



Prabhupāda: Why? Why He takes a free will? There must be some reason.



Devotee (1): The reason for it is...



Devotee (2): Because He's the cause of all causes.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why He appeared?



Devotee (3): For the pleasure of His devotees.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice. Very good. Yes. Mā Yaśodā wanted Kṛṣṇa to be his (her) child, and therefore He comes. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. Other things are secondary. He comes for the devotees. That is the transcendental. He is so kind that mother Yaśodā wanted Him as child. He played so nicely, as if completely dependent on mother Yaśodā. So mother Yaśodā had full enjoyment of his (her) child, Kṛṣṇa. This is transcendental. As the devotee wants to please the Lord, similarly, the Lord also wants to please the devotee. That is transcendental. Now you know. [break] And "I am the cause of all the devatās." Brahmā is the first creature, and he is father. Now, how He can take birth like that? He is the father of Brahma, Purāṇa, the oldest. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta, purāṇaṁ nava*-yauvanam [Bs. 5.33]. The oldest, but He is always young. This is very nice. He has said that He appears for the devotees' pleasure. That's nice. So you should always think. You must be thoughtful. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. So you have become liberated. You are liberated now.



Devotee (3): Become liberated?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (3): I would ask back in, Prabhupāda, in order to...(?)



Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who knows Me in My transcendental nature, he immediately becomes liberated." (end)





750717SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.32

-

San Francisco, July 17, 1975



*Nitāi: "Being forbidden in this way, the order carriers of the son of the sun*-god, Yamarāja, immediately replied: Who are all of you who have the audacity to oppose the ruling jurisdiction of Yamarāja, the king of religious principles?"



Prabhupāda:



ūcur niṣedhitās tāṁs te

*vaivasvata*-puraḥsarāḥ

ke yūyaṁ pratiṣeddhāro

*dharma*-rājasya śāsanam

[SB 6.1.32]



*Dharma*-rājasya śāsanam. There is a ruling all over the universe under the jurisdiction of Dharmarāja, or the supreme judge, for considering sinful and pious activities. There is a big government within this universe. But those who are thinking very poorly, without any advanced knowledge, atheist, they think that everything is coming automatically. Anīśva, anīśvara rahuḥ.(?) They say there is no īśvara, supreme ruler, and everything is happening by nature. But they cannot explain what is nature. At least, they have to admit nature is a power which is controlling him. We are not independent of the laws of nature. That is not possible. Even if you accept nature, then you are under the control of nature. That is a fact. Who is controlling nature, that you may not know because your knowledge is very poor. But nature is controlling you, that you can understand, everyone can understand. You cannot supersede the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Just like ordinary criminal, thief. The police is chastising him. He does not think that there is any other power over the police. He thinks the police is the father and mother, and he is poor class. He does not know that police is not the supreme power. The supreme power is the president or the minister of law and order. He thinks, "This constable is everything." So poor-class thinking, they think nature is everything. But any way, everyone is under the control of nature.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*The so*-called scientists, thinker, they are thinking that "We are everything. We can create, and we can control over the nature." These are all mad thinking. It is not possible. Nobody has ever been able to control over the nature, what to speak of understanding God. God is the controller of nature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Nature is not independent.



*So anyway, we are dependent on the laws of nature. That nobody can deny, even the greatest scientist, he cannot also deny. And because we are under the control of the laws of nature, we must admit, if we are sane man, that there is a system of ruling. If we deny the supreme ruler, we may do it madly, but there must be a systematic action, reaction. So here is Dharmarāja. Just like we have got magistrate. So magistrate's duty is, when a criminal is brought before him, to judge what kind of punishment he should be allowed. Justice there is. Similarly, this Dharmarāja means the criminals are brought before him. Dharmarāja is appointed magistrate by the Supreme Lord. So everyone, after death, he is brought before Dharmarāja, the Yamarāja, and he judges what kind of next body this criminal will have. That is Dharmarāja. He is judged by his work. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Just like the magistrate punishes the criminal, what kind of punishment he should be awarded, how he will be allowed to live within the prison house. Just like a political prisoner. In our country just now they have... So many big, big leaders have been arrested. But they are not put in the same level of ordinary criminals. They are given all facilities. They are given nice house, servants and newspaper. They are given all facilities of indepen..., outside life, according to the position. They are called first-class prisoners. And there are similarly second-class prisoners, third-class prisoners. So this is judged by a person.

*So here we are all prisoners within the material world, and some of us are first*-class prisoners, and some of us second class, and some of us third class. Therefore, we see the higher class of men in the society, middle class of men in the society, either in human society or even animal society... There is first-class animal, second-class animal, third-class animal. In the trees also, the same work is going on by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. One tree is supplying mango, so this mango tree is respect, and another tree, which is producing nothing, they are cut and made into fuel, because useless, no use. So amongst the trees, also you will find first class, second class, third class. Amongst the birds, beasts, animals, there is... Just like lion. He is also animal, and dog is also animal. They are not on the same level. Amongst the birds there are swans and there are crows. The crow is different from the swan although they are birds. The standard of enjoyment by the crows is different from the standard of enjoyment of the swan, white swan.

*tad*-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

[SB 1.5.11]



*Now here we are studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā. This is... This literature is meant for the swans, not for the crows. That is the division. And other literatures, sex literatures and these criminal literatures-there are so many literatures*-they are meant for the crows, crow-class men. And this literature is meant for swan-class of men, swan, paramahaṁsa. We are also reading... We are not interested with the lump of newspaper. We are interested in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why? Because within this literature there is glorification of the Supreme Lord, how He is conducting the whole universal affair, how the sun is rising exactly in time by His order, the moon is rising exactly by His order, not a minute's deviation. The big, big ocean, Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, very big, powerful, but still within the limit. The Pacific Ocean cannot come beyond the jurisdiction. So who is managing this? Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. Even the biggest planet within this universe, the sun, it is also rotating in his orbit by the supreme order. So there is supreme order everywhere. There is government. There is ruling. But the rascals, they cannot see. They simply believe in the direct experience. Direct experience is not first-class experience. The first-class experience is to receive knowledge from the person who knows. That is first-class experience.



*There are there types of experience. One kind of experience is direct experience. That is third*-class. And another experience is by history, by books. And another experience is by hearing from the Supreme. So we are gathering experience by hearing from the Supreme. Just like here Śukadeva Gosvāmī is narrating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He has heard it from his father, Vyāsadeva. His father has heard it from Nārada Muni, his spiritual master. Nārada Muni has heard it from Brahmā, the first living creature within this universe. And Brahmā has heard it from Kṛṣṇa. This is called paramparā system. So this kind of knowledge is perfect knowledge. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. This Vivasvān... Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Kṛṣṇa said, "I first of all narrated this yoga system to Vivasvān, Vivasvān, the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha: "So Vivasvān, the sun-god, from him, Manu heard it." Here also it is said, vaivasvata-puraḥsarāḥ. The vaivasvata, this word, comes from Vivasvān. The Yamarāja is authorized because he also heard everything about truth from Vivasvān. Therefore his name is vaivasvata-puraḥsarāḥ. And his servants, they heard it from their master. This is the way. This is the way of understanding.

*So ūcur niṣedhitās tāṁs te. They are the servants of Yamarāja, vaivasvata. So therefore they are vaivasvata*-puraḥsarāḥ. The important assistants of Vaivasvata, Yamarāja, they heard that somebody is warning, "Don't touch." In the previous verse we have learned, vārayām āsuḥ, forbidden, "Don't touch," ojasā, very strongly. So they became surprised, "Who are these persons? They are interfering with our business. We have come from supreme authority, magistrate." Just like police comes with his warrant of magistrate-nobody can check it. If somebody wants to check it, then he will be punished. The whole government force is behind the warrant of the police. Nobody can check it. If there is riot, then government will bring military forces to accept. So this is called ruling. So we are under these rulings. However foolishly we may declare we are independent, that is our completely foolishness. When the warrant is there, you cannot check it. The whole power is behind. Either you become the great scientist or philosopher, when the warrant of death will come from Yamarāja, there is no power to check it. Therefore they were surprised, that "Who is this foolish?" But they saw that the persons, they are coming from Vaikuṇṭha. They had different features, so beautiful, four handed, nicely decorated. So they were surprised.

Therefore in the next verse it is:

kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ

kasmād asya niṣedhatha

kiṁ devā upadevā yā

*yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha*-sattamāḥ



*"You are so nice." Because they are Yamarāja. Their bodily features already described: twisted face and the hair standing just perpendicularly. So they never saw. Why they? Even... We are supposed to be civilized man. We have not seen how the bodies are there in the Vaikuṇṭha. Here you can understand that in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, as the Lord Viṣṇu is four-handed, similarly, all the inhabitants there, they are also four-handed and equally dressed. Just like here, if your President Ford comes, he also dressed like a nice gentleman. And there are many others also, equally nicely dressed. You cannot distinguish who is President and who is ordinary man. Similarly, in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka all the inhabitants are equally in external feature: four-handed with the weapons*-the disc, the club, the conchshell, the lotus flower. All the Vaikuṇṭha's inhabitants: the same dress, same garment, same ornaments, same weapons. But still, there is distinction, that kaustubha jewel. That you will find Him hanging. By that kaustubha jewel, one can understand that "Here is Lord Viṣṇu, and here is ordinary living being." Just like the president has got his confidential plaque. If one challenges his credential, he can show, "Yes." The same principle.



*So ruling is there. You can say foolishly that "There is no ruling. I can do whatever I like." That you can do. Just like Ajāmila was doing. But now the two classes of messengers have come. The Yamadūtas have come to take him away because externally he is the most sinful man. Therefore they are protesting, "How is that? It is already settled up. This man has committed so many sinful activities. So they are under our jurisdiction. Who are you, you are forbidding us?" But the Viṣṇudūtas have come there because although he was sinful, although he was most impious, although he was a prostitute-hunter and cheater and so many good qualities, still, he has chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa at the end of his life. Immediately Viṣṇudūtas... This is the facility. Whole life sinful, ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6], but he has remembered Nārāyaṇa at the end of his life. Very painful life. At the time of death it is very, very painful. We have got experience. Therefore you do not wish to die, because it is very, very painful. Similarly, after death, immediately, by the discrimination of Yamarāja, he gets another body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Daiva-netreṇa, by the supervision of superior power, the Yamarāja takes away, and then he gives a body. First of all he is put into the hellish condition of life as he will get. Then, when he is little practiced, then he is given the similar body. Otherwise how it...? It will be... Suppose a person from, coming from very high family or king's royal family, but he has acted just like dogs and dogs. Then next life he is going to have a body of hog or dog. So therefore he is put into such life, subtle life-that is Yamarāja's business*-to be used in that way of life Then he is given a solid body or gross body so that the same royal prince, he can very easily eat stool. This is the process, nature's process is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. They are simply explaining "nature." How nature is working, these foolish rascals, they do not know. They do not know. Nature is working. That is fact. But how the nature is working, how different forms of body, different activities are going on, by whose judgment, who is looking after, these things they do not know. This is the modern education.

*But Kṛṣṇa conscious person, they know how things are going on, how nature is working, what is the effect. Everything we will find in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, how many different planetary systems are there, what is the situation each and every planet. You will get all this description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There are... We have got description. There are many planets. They are simply thousands and millions of miles only gold, thousands and millions of miles only copper. We have got this description from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There are oceans of milk, oceans of liquor, oceans of oil, oceans of yogurt. These things are there. What information you have got? You do not know fully what is the material nature. Therefore we do not believe that these men went to the moon planet. We have got different description of the moon planet. The moon planet is situated 1,600,000's of miles above the sun. We have got this description: 1,600,000 miles above the... And there is also blazing fire like the sun planet. Sun planet is very hot, and the moon planet is surrounded by very cool atmosphere. Just like when there is cold and heat together, you enjoy it, so moon planet is like that. And those who are in the karma-kāṇḍīya, means fruitive activities, those who are actually acting very piously, they are allowed to enter into the moon planet. And there you get life, ten thousands of years' duration of life. And that year is very, very big than our years. Our six months equal to one day in the moon planet. Now, such ten thousands of years you can get your duration of life, and very cold. Therefore you can drink there soma-rasa.

*So these are the explanation in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. And it is situated above the sun planet, and above, the distance is also given there: 1,600,000's of miles. And above that, similarly, 1,600,000 miles, there is Mars, there is Jupiter, there is Venus, like that. So universe is not so small that you can ride on your 747 and go. (laughter) It is not so easy. It is not so easy. So therefore, from the circumstances, we can conclude that they could not approach the moon planet. And now they are saying that "It is useless. There is no need of going there. The grapes are sour." (laughter) The jackal jumping, jumping, jumping. When he could not get the grapes, then he is rejecting, "Oh, this is sour. It is no use." So after jumping so many years and spending so much money, they are now rejecting: "The moon planet is not habitable." But we get there. This is one of the heavenly planets, and it is habitable by the most advanced pious men. So these are the difference. Now it is your business to believe the so-called scientist or the śāstra, as you like. But we cannot believe. Because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we have to believe what is stated in the śāstra.

*So there is government. Therefore they were surprised that "Who are you that you are trying to..." Dharma*-rājasya śāsanam. Śāsanam means government. "You are trying to resist us, from the government of Dharmarāja? We have never experienced. How is this? Who are you?" So this is the question. Now we shall discuss next day how this government of Dharmarāja is violated and why it is violated. We will hear next.

Thank you very much. (end)



760531SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.32

-

Honolulu, May 31, 1976



*Pradyumna: "When the order carriers of Yamarāja, the son of the sun*-god, were thus forbidden, they replied, 'Who are you, sirs, to have the audacity to challenge the jurisdiction of Yamarāja?' "



Prabhupāda:



ūcur niṣedhitās tāṁs te

*vaivasvata*-puraḥsarāḥ

ke yūyaṁ pratiṣeddhāro

*dharma*-rājasya śāsanam

[SB 6.1.32]



*So there is śāsana. Śāsana means government. Śās-dhātu I have several times explained. Śās-dhātu means ruling. Śās-dhātu. From śās-dhātu the word has come, śāsana. There are many other words. From śās-dhātu is śāstra. And from śās-dhātu, śāstra. From śās-dhātu, śāsanam. The Sanskrit words are coined from the dhātu verb. So śās-dhātu means ruling. So there is ruling. You cannot think that you are independent. There is government. If you disobey the ruling, the government has got police department, and if you are still disobedient there will be military department. You cannot disobey the rulings of the government. Similarly, this government, God's government, there are so many things-government officers, department rulings. Don't think that there was a chunk and immediately there was... Nonsense. It is not chunk. (laughs) It is regular government. Just like we have here a small place. In Hawaii you have got so many government officers, rulers. And do you think such a vast (indistinct) is manifested and there is no ruling? Just see how poor thought. There is ruling. Don't think all of a sudden that... Any sane man can understand that things are being carried systematically*-the seasonal changes, the seasonal fruits and flowers, the sunrise, the moonrise, the birds, death, old age, disease, everything systematically. And is that happening by chance? Why by chance one does not live forever? There is no such chance, sir. There is ruling. You cannot say, "Now here is a chance the man has not died." Where is that chance? Why do you speak of nonsense chance? It is not chance. It is ruling. You must die. However, utopianly says, "Now we shall live." Oh, that is not. There is ruler.



*So the Yamarāja is in charge of ruling of the sinful persons. Dharmasya śāsanam. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the laws of God. It is not a sentiment thing, "I believe." You believe or not believe, what does it matter? You believe or not believe in the government laws*-it must (indistinct). Similarly, the so-called philosophers, they simply concoct idea, "I believe. I believe." Whatever you believe, that is your business, but the ruling of the Supreme Lord must go on. You cannot check it. You cannot avoid it. You can go on with your believe or not believe. That is not the business. So Yamarāja is in charge of punishing according to the gravity of sinful activities. He's meant for punishing. That is just like superintendent of police or something like that, big officer, inspector general of the police department or the minister in charge of law and order. Everything is there in imitation, yato vā imāni bhūtāni jayante, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Wherefrom you get this idea? There must be minister in charge of law and order. Where you get this idea? The idea is there from the original government. And there is the director or the minister in charge of law and order. The Yamarāja is minister in charge. They say it is mythology, it is man's creation. How it is man's creation? Things are going on. In the śāstra it is said,

*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*Savitā, the sun, you, those who are initiated, so oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi. That savitā, the sun, they (indistinct) from the sun. What is that? Yac*-cakṣur eṣa, this is God's eyes. As soon as there is sunlight, you see everything. You cannot avoid His eyes. You think that "Nobody's here. Let me steal this." No. Immediately recorded. At night the moon is there. There are so many witnesses. And the Supreme Personality of Godhead is also witnessing within. So we cannot escape His witnessing. He's witnessing from inside, from outside. So how He's escape your sinful activities? No. That is not possible.



So immediately things are recorded and, at the time of death, just as in the previous verse, we studied, vikarṣato 'ntar hṛdayād. Antar hṛdayād, in the core of the heart the individual soul and the Supersoul is there, and Yamarāja will take, his order carriers will take the, not the heart, but the soul. The heart of the body, that is made of this material element, that will lie down here. But the soul may be taken by arrangement. This is very, very subtle arrangement, and these rascals, they do not know how things are going on. They are imagining, "I think it is like this and that." There is no value of this "I believe," "I think," "I conjecture." You can do that, but things are going on. The government is very, very strong. Little deviation from the law, you'll be punished. Little deviation. Nature's law, they are so systematically set up that automatically... Just like the same example I've given: you'll infect some disease, automatically you'll have to suffer from the disease. Not that somebody's come to ask you that "You have infected this disease. Now you have to suffer from this." No. The machine is so perfect that as you have infected this disease... This is practically we know. So all of a sudden one gets cholera. So the doctor says that you are very bilious, or cholera (indistinct). So nature's law is so perfect. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot escape. Suppose you can eat two ounce, and if you eat four ounce, then you have to starve three days. This is the law. "There's some very palatable dishes. Now eat, let me eat it to my satisfaction," and you'll overeat. No. The nature's law is that you have to starve for three days. Next eating will be after three days.

*So this way nature's law is acting. And what is this nature's law? Nature's law means a system, a machine. Just like in this government there is system. You cannot violate. "Keep to the right!" "Stop here, red light!" You must have to stop. "I'm governor." "Never mind, you stop." This is law. You cannot say that "I am governor," "I am Mr. Ford" or "Mr. Rockefeller," "Why shall I stop my car?" No, it is government law. You must stop. So this is practical going on. How you can violate the nature's law? It is not possible. Nature's law is so strict, a little deviation will put you into suffering. This is going on. That is Yamarāja. And if you violate more and more and more, then you suffer more and more and more. This is the law. You cannot escape. So that is fixed up. But as there is some exceptional cases... Just like one has committed murder, so by law he must be hanged. By law. That is the general law everywhere, all over the world: life for life. So similarly, in the God's law there is no such thing that if you kill a human being you'll be killed, and if you kill an animal you won't be killed. That is imperfect law, man*-made law. Therefore Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." No question of... They have modified, "This killing means murdering." Christ does not say. What is your proof that if you committed mistake, a mistake, instead of writing "Thou shall not commit murder," here is written, "Thou shall not kill," general. Otherwise Christ has no intelligence. He cannot use the proper word. But you are misusing the order of Lord Christ.

*So you are suffering. You are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, and when it will be mature, there will be war, the wholesale murder. Finished. One atom bomb*-finished. You'll have to suffer. Don't think that "Innocent animals, they cannot protest. Let us kill and eat." No. You'll be also punished. Wait for accumulation of your sinful activities, and there will be war, and the America will drop the atom bomb, and Russia will be finished. Both will be finished. Go on now enjoying. It takes time. Just like even if you infect some disease, it takes time. Not that immediately you infect, and immediately the disease is there. No. It takes a week's time or so. What is called? A quarantine, quarantine...

Devotee: Period of incubation.



*Prabhupāda: Ha? Incubation. So from Africa, if anyone goes anywhere, they require yellow fever injection. So if you haven't got yellow fever injection, then even in the airport, there is arrangement, you have to wait in the quarantine area for six days. You'll not be allowed. So this is... As you have got the laws and the punishment in this government, so why do you think there is no punishment and there is no God? This is utopian. Don't think like that. Utopian. There is God, there is his government, there are his agents, there are witnesses, and... Otherwise why there are different varieties of life? Different varieties of life. Why? Eight million, four hundred thousand species of life. Everyone is a living being. The trees are living being, the fishes are living being, the ants are living being, the mosquitos are living being, and the human being also living being, the demigods also living being, the cats, dogs*-everyone is living being. It is simply in different dresses. They're living beings. But why they are situated in different position? According to karma, punished.



*So we should be very careful. This is... This human form of life is a chance to make your choice, whether you are to go on being punished like this in different forms of life or whether you shall go back to home, back to Godhead. Here is the chance. Manuṣyānāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many millions and millions of persons, one is intelligent enough, he can inquire that "Why I am suffering?" Everyone is suffering. That's a fact. Only the rascals, they think, "We're enjoying." Everyone is suffering. This is a place for suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15], Kṛṣṇa says, who has created this place. It is a place of suffering. Every moment you are suffering due to this body, due to the mind, due to the suffering imposed by other living entities. The mosquito will bite, the flies will disturb you, the bugs are there, and then the dogs will bark unnecessarily. You are passing, and his business is barking. Ha? "Bow! Bow! Bow!" (laughter) So this is also suffering. You don't like the next door the dog is barking. So in this way, if you are sober man, you don't want all this suffering, but it is imposed upon you. How do you think that you are living very happy? This is foolishness. It is not... This place, either ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino... Wherever you go, you read from the śāstra, the demigods, they're supposed to be very happy in the upper planetary systems*-they are also not in happiness. There is fight between the demons and the demigods and so on, so on. The same politics, same (indistinct), the same..., so many things. Here in the small scale, just like two birds, they fight also. You've seen them. So their fighting you neglect. But your fighting-there is atom bomb. And similarly there is fighting in upper planets also.

*So these things are going on, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest. This is nice theory. So here, anywhere you go... Just like your America is the richest country. Do you think there is happiness, there is no fighting, there is no disease, there is no death? No. Everything's there as it is in other countries, poverty*-stricken countries. So you cannot avoid. The birth... Kṛṣṇa says, "Birth, death, old age and disease, these are your problems." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Does it mean that these sufferings of birth, death and old age and disease, there is none in America or in other, moon planet? No. There is also same. Neither in greater portion, proportion. So there is stringent laws of the material nature everywhere, and there is God behind him, behind the nature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Everything is going on under the direction of the supreme controller, and these are officers, just like Yamarāja, strictly following the regulative principles, the order of sun-god.

*So this Ajāmila... We have already described his life*-cheating, roguism and prostitute-hunter and so many things, that is his life. So he's subjected to the punishment, to be punished by the Yamarāja. So his order carriers have come to take him away. But, in the meantime, the Viṣṇudūtas came and asked them, "No. Don't touch him. Don't touch him." So they were surprised: "What is this?" Therefore they are asking, ke yūyaṁ pratiṣeddhāro dharma-rājasya śāsanam: "Who are you, interfering with government's law? Who are you?" They are surprising. "Nobody has checked us." Just like police... They come... Police comes to somebody's house, everyone knows there is some business, serious business. Who will ask the police, "Why you are entering here?" No. Nobody has right. (indistinct) But why this punishment? Just to save him from so many other punishments. That is the law in Manu-saṁhitā, that a murderer is killed, then his all sinful activities, reaction of life, finishes by that killing, by that hanging. Otherwise next life he has to suffer so many things. So when the king orders a murderer to be killed, it is his mercy. It is his mercy. Because he saves him from so many other entanglement. Better kill him so that his sinful reaction is finished. Similarly, Yamarāja, the sinful man taken to the Yamarāja, he is put into suffering, the same principle as a prisoner. He has to suffer for a time, six months or one year or sometimes more than that, just to atone for his sinful activities. So nobody can check. You can imagine that "There is no God, there is no Yamarāja, there is no punishment. Let me do." That is your fancy. But it is not the fact. Fact is, if we commit some sin we must suffer from it, and there is nobody in the world who can check it.

Thank you very much. (end)



750718SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.33

-

San Francisco, July 18, 1975



*Nitāi: "Dear sirs, whose servant are you, where have you come from, and for what reason are you forbidding us to touch the body of Ajāmila? Are you coming from the heavenly planets, are you demigods, sub*-demigods, or the best of the perfected devotees?"



Prabhupāda:



kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ

kasmād asya niṣedhatha

kiṁ devā upadevā yā

*yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha*-sattamāḥ

[SB 6.1.33]



This Yamarāja, he has been given his jurisdiction on the lower portion of the universe, Pātāla. Yamarāja is not one of the candidates, but he has been designated to go down and administer the government there. (child making noise)



Jayatīrtha: The children should go out.



*Prabhupāda: So nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. Just like government servant, they have to go anywhere the government orders, "You go and see there." So Yamarāja is, although one of the mahājanas, great personality, most confidential devotee and officer of Kṛṣṇa... There are twelve great personalities: Lord Brahmā...



svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



*So Yamarāja is also one of the twelve exalted officers or representative of Kṛṣṇa. But still, he has gone to take charge of the judicial department for judging the sinful*-not all, only the sinful.



*So these Yamadūtas, order carriers of Yamarāja, they were surprised to see how nice they are, good*-looking. So they were surprised, and they were asking question that kasya vā, "Whose servants you are? We are Yamarāja's servant. We are so ugly-looking, and you are so beautiful. So whose servants you are?" Kasya, "whose," means either "whose servant" or "whose son," like that. Kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ: "And wherefrom you are coming?" Kasmāt: "And what is the business? Here you have got... You are so nice-looking. We have come to take this sinful man, and what business you have got here? Why you are forbidding us?" Kiṁ devāḥ: "Are you demigods or semi-demigods?" In the upper planetary system there are gods, demigods. But yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha-sattamāḥ. Siddha-sattamāḥ means in the spiritual world. Siddha means "completely perfect," and sattamāḥ, "devotees."

Within this material world, there is one Siddhaloka. Siddha, caraṇa. They are called siddha means all the yogic mystic powers they have got naturally. Here in this, on the earthly planet, if we want to get some mystic power, we have to practice it by yoga, mystic exercise. But in that planet, Siddhaloka, they are born perfect. Just like if you want to swim in the water, you have to learn it; you have to practice it. But within the sea or water even a small fish, he can very expertly swim, a born qualification. You cannot go against the current of the sea or the water of the river, but a small fish takes pleasure going against the current. Tulasī dāsa has said that to go against the current is very difficult. Even an elephant is washed away. But a small fish, because he has taken shelter of the ocean, he can go against the current. This is the... So if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, then even the current is against, we can go because... The same example: the fish has taken shelter of the ocean. Although very small animal, he can go against the...

*So siddha*-sattamāḥ. Siddhas... Here we have to practice to become siddha, perfect, but there, in the Siddhaloka, they are so perfect that they can go from one planet to another. The yogis can go, but they are born yogis. One planet... This is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We have seen in this Second Canto. There is Siddhaloka. So many planets are there, so many opulences are there, that it cannot be compared. And there is description. So one planet to another, or one planet to the Sumeru hills, there is long, millions of miles, made of gold. They are gold. Similarly copper. Similarly, there are different oceans. Now, we may not believe, but there is no question of believing. You cannot say, "There is no such thing." But we can say because we get the information from the śāstra. You have no evidence, so you cannot say "No." You can say "Maybe," but we don't say "Maybe." There is because we get the information from the śāstra.

*So kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ kasmād asya niṣedhatha: "Then why you are forbidding us? You look so nicely, very highly born, and why you are forbidding us? We have come here to discharge our duties, to take this man to Yamaloka. He is so sinful. Why you are interrupting our business?" Yes. So in the next verses the description is there of the Viṣṇudūta. So sarve padma*-palāśākṣāḥ: exactly the feature like Nārāyaṇa. Padma-palāśa: their eyes are compared with the lotus petal, very nice. Sarve: "All of you look so nice." Padma-palāśa-akṣāḥ pīta-kauśeya-vāsasaḥ. In Vaikuṇṭha, people, they also dress with yellow cloth, pīta-kauśeya, or this saffron color. This is Vaikuṇṭha dress. Kauśeya, pīta, the dress, garments. Kirīṭinaḥ: "with helmets." Kuṇḍalinaḥ: "with nice earring." Kirīṭinaḥ kuṇḍalino lasat-puṣkara-mālinaḥ, "and very nice flower garland." This is Vaikuṇṭha dress. Lasat-puṣkara-mālinaḥ, sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ: all young men. In Vaikuṇṭha there is no old age, although they are eternal. That is the real form of the spirit. The old age is due to this body, material body. Material thing is born and stays for some time, and then it is annihilated. So up to the time of annihilation, it becomes so old, nasty, bad-looking. But in the Vaikuṇṭha there is no such thing. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam.

*The Vaikuṇṭha planet, because that is spiritual body, that is nityaḥ śāśvataḥ. Never it become... Just like Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa or Viṣṇu. They are not old. You will find all these pictures of Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa*-all young men. So they are also... The inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha on the spiritual planet, they are also exactly of the same feature. You everything get exactly like God. This is Vaikuṇṭhaloka. The opulence is also like that. Sārṣṭi. There are five kinds of mukti, liberation. One is sāyujya, to merge into the existence. That is also mukti. But Vaiṣṇava does not like such kind of mukti. They think to merge, to become one with the Supreme and lost our individuality, that is, Vaiṣṇava thinks, as hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Why? We shall keep ourself, our individuality, the body exactly like Kṛṣṇa. In the Goloka Vṛndāvana they keep exactly like two-handed Kṛṣṇa. In the Vaikuṇṭha they also keep themselves four-handed as Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. So the Vaiṣṇavas are very intelligent. They want to keep themself in as good as God. Sometimes more than God, Vaiṣṇava. That is very intelligent. What is the use of becoming one? I lose my individuality. So that is jñānī's aspiration. But the bhaktas, they want to keep association with Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu in the same opulence, same prosperity, everything, bodily features the same, everything.

*So advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. So nava-yauvanam. Lord Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, or the liberated devotees there, they are of the same bodily feature, nava-yauvanam, always young. Therefore it is said, sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ. Vayasaḥ means age, and nūtna means just fresh young man. Nūtna-vayasaḥ sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ: "All of you are very beautiful, with four hands." So even the living entities they have got also four hands, not empty hands, with good ornament, good dress, and the complexion, color-everything like Viṣṇu. Everything like Viṣṇu. Sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ, dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-śaṇkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ. And the weapons: dhanuḥ, bow; *dhanur*-niṣaṅga asi, the arrows and the sword; gadā, club; śaṇkha, conchshell; *and cakra, disc. As Viṣṇu has Sudarśana... Śaṅkha*-cakra-gadā-padma. There are fourteen different forms of Viṣṇu according to the position of the weapon in different hand, beginning with śaṇkha-cakra-gadā-padma, then cakra-gadā-śaṇkha-padma, in this way. These description are there in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. And according to the change of the weapon, the different names are there. One viṣṇu-mūrti is called Vāmana; *one mūrti is called Govinda. In this way there are twenty*-four forms of Viṣṇu, śaṇkha-cakra-gadā-padma, according to Their placing in different hands.

So these Viṣṇudūtas, they are exactly dressed like Viṣṇu or equipped with ornaments and everything. Then again, diśaḥ vitimirālokāḥ. And on account of their presence... They have got also bodily effulgence. As Viṣṇu has got bodily effulgence, similarly, the Viṣṇudūtas, they have also the bodily effulgence so that wherever they will go, it will be illuminated immediately. There is no necessity of light or sunshine. They personally, they make the place illuminated. Diśo vitimira. Timira means darkness, and vi means without. Wherever they will be present... Therefore, in the spiritual world everyone has got the spiritual effulgence, so whole planet is full of effulgence. Just like one example is here in this material world, the sun. There there are living entities. They are also all light because their body is made of fire. And many hundreds and thousands and millions of people with the fiery body, they are living. Therefore you will find always sun fiery, light. Just like you can see from distance a big city. The light is coming out. Is it not? In the night you see a big city, and you are in the village, you will find a big light is coming. So that is artificial, electric light. But in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka normally, regularly, their body is light.

*We have got one example to learn: the sun planet. Everything is fiery there. Don't think that there is no life. Just like they are concluding, "In this moon planet there is no life." No. Every planet is full of living entities, either in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka or in this material world. Sarva*-gaḥ sthanur acalo 'yam. Living entities are everywhere. Therefore we cannot believe that these people went to moon planet, because they say there is no living entity. That is not possible. That is not possible. Living entities are everywhere. Even in the fiery planet like the sun, there are. But we are rascals. We think everyone is rascal like us. Ātmavat manyate jagat. If one is rascal, he thinks all other rascals also. That is nature. He cannot think that "Somebody is more intelligent than me." He thinks, "I am rascal; therefore everyone is rascal." Ātmavat manyate jagat. This is the formula. You will find the example: just like a deaf man. He speaks very slowly. He thinks the other man is also speaking slowly. No. He is deaf. Other man is crying, but he is hearing very slow. Therefore a deaf man speaks very slow. He thinks that he is speaking slow. So ātmavat manyate jagat. This is the nature.

*So because we cannot live in the fire, it does not mean that there is no such living entity whose body is made of fire. Because I cannot live in the water, don't think there is no living entity. Huge, big, big living entities are there within the water. Why should you think there is no living entity? Similarly, the watery living entities, they may think there is nobody in the land, because they cannot live in the land. This is God's creation. Vicitra. Vicitra means varieties, varieties. There are living entities on the earth. Within the earth you will see. When you go to the beach, there are so many living entities within the earth. Or here, within the wall, there are so many living entities. Sarva-gaḥ. Everywhere there are living entities. There is living entities in the water, there is living entities on the land, there is living entities on the air, and why not in the fire? Fire is also one of the five elements: earth, water, fire, air and sky. So if there are living entities in the water, on the earth, in the air, in the sky, so what is the objection, not in the fire? This is foolishness. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "I spoke this philosophy formerly to the sun-god." So unless there is sun*-god or the king of the sun planet... So if the king is there, the citizens must be there, the kingdom must be there-but they are made of fire. So similarly, in the Vaikuṇṭha world, everything is spiritual. That we have to learn. We cannot make our own conclusion foolishly. That is not possible.

*So these people never saw, these Yamadūta, such persons with four hands, so decorated, so effulgent. So they were surprised, that "You are so nice." So diśo vitimirālokāḥ kurvantaḥ svena tejasā: "By your personal effulgence, you are illuminating wherever you are standing." Diśa. Kim arthaṁ dharma*-pālasya kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha: "You look so beautiful and gentle. Why you are doing this wrong thing? We have come to discharge our duties, and you are forbidding us." Means they could understand that "They are so powerful, they have stopped us to touch Ajāmila's body. If we forcibly do, they can punish us." The Yamadūtas could understand. Therefore politely asking that "You are so gentle, so good-looking, so nice. Why this is your business, that you are forbidding us in discharging our duties?" Kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya. Dharma-pāla: "We are also acting not whimsically. We are working under the Dharmarāja, Yamarāja, who is justice, how to make judgment against the sinful man. He is appointed for this purpose, and we are just carrying out his order." Then "You look so gentle and highly exalted. Why you are forbidding us? This is very..." kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha.

*So we get description of the Viṣṇudūtas. Now, at least we can think, if we are transferred to the spiritual world, how much happy we shall be, how much opulent we shall be. Here we are thinking possessing one tin car made of tin, and after one year, it is smashed, and throw it again, and we becoming very opulent. So we do not know what is opulence there in the spiritual world. Not only in the spiritual..., even in this material world. In higher planetary system there are many, many different types, opulence. Svargaloka. This moon planet is also one of the opulent planets within this material world. So that is very, very nice. But these people say they went there and could not find any living entities. So if we believe in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, we have to conclude that these people did not go at all in the moon planet. You have to believe this or that, as you like. But we get information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the moon planet is one of the heavenly planets. If somebody goes there, he can live there for ten thousands of years. Ten thousands of years means our calculation six times. Then sixty thousands of years like of this planet. So these descriptions are there. So these are the ideas. One can understand what will be our opulence if by chance... Not by chance; by our activities.

*What is that activities? That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā... [break] ...janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply try to understand. Don't conclude that "Kṛṣṇa is like us, ordinary human being, maybe little learned more than us, or little power..." No. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By His merciful or causeless mercy, He descends to exhibit His form, His activities, so that he can see. Just like in the Buckingham Palace in London, many people are standing. Sometimes the queen comes and stands on the corridor, and everyone can see. That is queen's mercy, not that because she comes in the audience of so many public men; *therefore she is also one of them. This is nonsense conclusion. Similarly Kṛṣṇa, by His causeless mercy if He comes... Some rascals say that God cannot come. Why? Why God cannot come? If He is all*-powerful, why He cannot come? Does it mean that God is subject to your dictation that He cannot come? This is foolishness. Yes, God can come; *therefore He is all*-powerful. He can exhibit Himself to the audience of common man. But only the fortunate man can understand, "Here is God." That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when appeared, a few men upon this planet could understand that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," especially the Pāṇḍavas. They were so fortunate, they could understand, "Kṛṣṇa is..." Kuntī, their mother, she could understand. Kuntī, kuntī-stotra prayer, you will find how she has realized that "Kṛṣṇa, although He is playing just like my nephew, my brother's son, but no, He is the Supreme Personality of..." Even Dhṛtarāṣṭra knew. Dhṛtarāṣṭra knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Kṛṣṇa sent his messenger to Dhṛtarāṣṭra, Akrūra, to advise him that "Why you are envious of your nephews? You stop this," before the war of Kurukṣetra, so Dhṛtarāṣṭra admitted that "I know that the advice has come from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but I am so unfortunate, I cannot give up my this habit. Please excuse." So even Dhṛtarāṣṭra knew, and what to speak of the Pāṇḍavas?

*So that is the defect of conditioned souls, that they want to see God, and even God comes personally, they cannot see. They cannot see. So who can see? Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilo... One how has got love for God, he can see God all the time, and now what to speak of God comes personally before him? So we have to learn from the Supreme Personality of Godhead everything, what is the situation of this material world, what is the situation of the spiritual world. Everything perfectly, there is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and we have to learn. Then our life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760601SB.HON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.33

-

Honolulu, June 1, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "Dear sirs, whose servants are you, where have you come from, and why are you forbidding us to touch the body of Ajāmila? Are you demigods from the heavenly planets, are you subdemigods, or are you the best of the devotees?"



Prabhupāda:



kasya vā kuta āyātāḥ

kasmād asya niṣedhātha

kiṁ devā upadevā yā

*yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha*-sattamāḥ

[SB 6.1.33]



*So the Yamadūtas, their description of the body already given. They are not very good-looking. So when they saw the Viṣṇu-dūta-the description of the Viṣṇu-dūta is in the next verse*-they were surprised, that "Wherefrom such nice features of the body..." They have been described here, sarve padma-palāśākṣāḥ. They saw that their eyes were just like petals of the lotus flower, so beautiful. Sarve padma-palāśākṣāḥ pīta-kauśeya-vāsasaḥ. And all dressed in saffron cloth, yellow. Kirīṭinaḥ, with helmet, kuṇḍalino, and earrings. Kuṇḍalino. Lasat-puṣkara-mālinaḥ. And with flower garland. Just imagine if somebody is very good-looking, with helmet and nice earring, bedecked with jewels, and the helmet bedecked with jewels, and cloth yellow, with garland, four hands. Sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ. All young, not old like me; *all young like you. Nūtna*-vayasaḥ. Just (indistinct) very young. Sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ. And four-handed. Here we get two hands, in the Vaikuṇṭha planet we get four hands. Dhanur niṣa aṅgāsi-gadā-śaṇkha-cakra-ambuja śriyaḥ. And each hand is decorated with bow, arrow, sword, and conchshell, and disc. Like that. This is the description of Vaikuṇṭha features.



*So always young. There is no old age, disease, or birth and death. Here in this material world these four things are there: birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual world the men are so beautiful, and imagine the women also still more beautiful, very attractive. But there is no sex. That is the feature we find in... Why there? Because, after all, we want pleasure. So in the material world the topmost pleasure is sex, because there is no other idea. So all people, even so*-called yogis, swamis and... Ultimately they are coming down to sex. Whatever they have got asset, the culmination is sex. Old man, he has got money, he has got everything-still he is going to the night club. So here in this material world, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. In the material world, gṛha-medhi... Gṛha-medhi means those who are entrapped within this universe or within this body, same thing. This is also entrapment, I am within this body. Or even in any part of the universe, either you go to the moon planet or sun planet or any other planet. You see the sky is just like egglike, within that. They are called baddha-jīva. Baddha-jīva means entrapped. So entrapped living entities, they are in different grades of life, 8,400,000 different forms of life. Now, how they are entrapped? This sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. This is their pleasure. And in the spiritual world there is no sex. So one may question, "How they are living? Life is finished if there is no sex.' So somebody committed suicide, who was telling? Because doctor asked him not to have any more sex. Who told me the other day? Somebody told me, some big man. He was famous man. So he was forbidden. Especially when one is attacked with tuberculosis, the medical man advises, "No more sex. Then you will die soon." So this was ordered and he committed suicide.

Devotee: Very soon.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee: Very soon.



*Prabhupāda: Just see. It is practical. Because his... The life is finished there is no sex life. Actually that is the fact here. Birds, beast, you will find the pigeons, the dogs, they are enjoying sex at least four times in a hour. There are men also like that. So here in this material world the sex life is the top pleasure. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. It is very abominable. Just imagine what kind of happiness it is, but we are forced to act like that. So tuccham, very insignificant. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. What kind of pleasure? Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is just like itching between the two hands. And tṛpyanti neha kṛpanā bahu dūḥkha-bhājaḥ. The aftereffects of sex life is very, very bad.



So in that interview I gave that information that woman's freedom? I gave this reply, that "Where is the woman's freedom? The boy and the girl intermingle, and the girl becomes pregnant, and the boy goes away without any responsibility, and the burden..., the child is a burden for the woman. Either she should kill or beg from the government. Is that independence?" They are trying to be independent. This is not civilization. There is no question of independence. The woman must be given protection in childhood by the father unless she is married, and in youthhood by the husband, and in old age by grown up sons. This is Vedic civilization. Na striyaṁ svatantram arhati. Just like children, they must be always protected. It is not dependence, it is protection. So there should be responsible father, responsible husband, responsible sons to keep woman very happy. In India still it is going on.

*So the point is that here the sex life is the highest pleasure, and in the spiritual world there is no sex. So what is that pleasure? That pleasure is this chanting and dancing, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. That is stated in the śāstra. They are so much absorbed in this chanting and dancing, they are no more interested in sex. That is the only way. If you want to stop the pleasure of sex, then you have to take this pleasure, this transcendental pleasure. You'll forget everything. That is said by Yamunacārya:

*yad avadhi mama cetāḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*nava*-nava-dhāman udyata rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



Yamunacārya was a very big king. So he had very good opportunity for sex life, he was king. But later on he became perfect Vaiṣṇava, devotee. So after he became devotee, he was expressing his experience, that "Since I have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and I am enjoying that ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa, whenever I think of sex with woman, I spite." Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca [SB 11.2.42]. So if we want to be free from the entanglement of this world, we should practice... That practice, simply artificial practice will not help. Unless we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, unless we become accustomed to enjoy this ecstasy of chanting and dancing, it is not possible.



*So they were surprised, wherefrom these beautiful... They never experienced. Because these Yamadūtas, they generally... Just like police. Police go to the thieves, rogues and criminals. They have very little opportunity to see very beautiful, aristocratic, nice family. They have no possibility because they are invited by this class (indistinct) or they are forced to go there. So these Yamadūtas, they are accustomed to go to the sinful men like Ajāmila and many others. Their business is to arrest the sinful soul and take the soul to Yamarāja. So they were very much surprised by seeing these beautiful Viṣṇudūta. Viṣṇudūta. So don't think it is mythology. No. This is fact. Vyāsadeva or big big saintly persons, they have no business to present before you something mythology. Why they should waste time in that way? It is simply rascaldom to think all the statement as mythology. Not mythology. We have no knowledge. In the śāstra we understand, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Yasya prabhā. The rays of Kṛṣṇa's body, when it is expanded, brahmajyoti, within that brahmajyoti there are innumerable universes. Just like within the sunlight, sunshine, there are innumerable planets. We are seeing daily. Similarly, there are innumerable universes in the brahmajyoti. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. And koṭiṣu, and each and every universe, millions, koṭiṣu. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣu aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Vasudhā, vasudhā means planet. Just like this is also vasudhā, this planet here. We can see there are so many millions of planets, at night you can see, and each of them is peculiar, different from the others. Why they have failed to utilize the moon planet? It is a different atmosphere. It is different atmosphere. These rascals cannot go there. It is not possible. They have simply made false propaganda. They cannot go there. So because the atmosphere is different... There is also blazing fire surrounded by ice. That is the description. I am speaking from the description. And therefore at night it is so pleasing. You have got experience. Fire coming through ice, the rays, that is very pleasing. Therefore sunshine is making the whole thing very hot, and the moonshine making it pleasing.

*So God's arrangement is so nice that everything is going on nicely. There is brain behind it. Why there is sunshine, why there is moonshine, everything described. You'll read in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, moon is the cause of vegetation, and there is no vegetation, that's all. Moon is the cause of vegetation in all planets, and they say there is no vegetation, it is simply dust. So we have to believe it? And when you present actual fact, it is mysticism or mythology. Anyway, we are not concerned with their statement. Our process is to know things from the śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya tinete kariya aikya. Our process is deductive, not inductive. We take knowledge, just like this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam written by Vyāsadeva under the instruction of his guru, spiritual master, Nārada. So Nārada advised him that "You have written so many books: Purāṇas, Vedas, Vedānta." Vyāsadeva said, "Still I am not feeling very satisfied." So Nārada Muni advised him that "You are not feeling satisfied because you have not described about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the defect. So now you have got mature experience. You describe simply about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa." So therefore he wrote the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, eighteen thousand verses. So each verse, we are reading suppose one verse daily, or two verses. So eighteen thousand verses, how long it will take? At least five thousand days. So five thousand days, how many years?

Devotee: Seven years?



*Prabhupāda: Seven years? Five thousand verses. Anyway, so we have got enough stock in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, at least whatever we have published. One thousand days how many years?



Devotee: Three years.



Prabhupāda: Two years?



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It would take between twenty*-five and thirty years.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Not seven years. (laughter) If we regularly read two verses. That will be also not possible. Anyway, we can read. Not once reading you can understand. Repeatedly. Punaḥ punaḥ (indistinct) the stock which we have already got, you can study and take lessons from the Vedic literature. Make your life perfect. What kind of residential quarters are there throughout the whole universe, how many universes are there, what is the special features of different residents. But don't take this nonsense instruction that "Except on this planet there is no life other planet." This is simply nonsense. Every planet is congested with living entities. This is the description of the śāstra. Jana, jana means "congested with," but different types. Just like they have come from Vaikuṇṭha, their bodily feature is different. We have got experience here on this planet in some portion there are black people, some portion there are white people, some portion there are yellow people. There are so many manifestation within this planet. Just imagine how many. This is God's creation, different varieties. Just like we see on this planet. Why on this planet? Even on this Hawaii island how many beautiful things, flowers, trees, and fruits. That is God's creation. Ānanda. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. If you want enjoyment there must be variety. Impersonal without variety, zero, these are not enjoyment. This is all rascaldom. The voidists make everything zero. Why zero? There must be varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment.



*So Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person... We are also. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa we have got the same quality. So you see Kṛṣṇa, He is enjoying with the gopīs, with the cowherd boys, friends, in Vṛndāvana, in the forest, with cows, with calves. This is enjoyment, variety. Zero is enjoyment? No. Zero is not enjoyment. Ānanda mayo 'bhyāsāt. This is the Vedānta-sūtra, that the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, is simply enjoying. Everything enjoyment. You find Kṛṣṇa always, wherever He is, He is playing on flute with company, either gopīs or cowherd boy or somebody, somebody. This is enjoyment. And He comes personally on this planet to show His enjoyment life in Vṛndāvana*-that place is Vṛndāvana; *therefore Vṛndāvana is so important*-to invite us that "Why you are not in here? Come with Me. Enjoy with My dance." Similarly, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu also you see dancing. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityananda śrī-advaita-gadādhara śrīvāsādi... All dancing. Saṅgo-paṅgāstra-pārṣada. So the life is this enjoyment, dancing. That is life, not meditation, "For fifteen minutes' meditation I become God. That's all." (laughter) These are all rascals. Enjoyment is real life. Enjoyment. That enjoyment, not this material world, the sex. No. Above this. Transcendental. That we find information in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So I am very glad that you have all taken. Continue this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Read books, chant, dance, eat nicely and be happy.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. (kīrtana) (end)





701219SB.SUR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.34-39

-

Surat, December 19, 1970



Prabhupāda: There are so many ladies.



Guest (1): And there are so many English devotees.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Guest (1): English devotees.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. (Hindi) So the constables of Yamarāja, they are describing the bodily features of the Viṣṇudūta. You can have an idea of the Viṣṇuloka, or Vaikuṇṭhaloka. From this study, we have to understand that there is a spiritual sky, and that is far, far extensive than the material sky. You cannot even measure the sky covered by one universe, and there are innumerable universes. That is... All together, that is one*-fourth of the whole sky. It is a rough estimate only, according to the Vedic scripture. And the three-fourths of the sky is spiritual sky. The population in the spiritual sky is far, far greater than the material sky. Only a few living entities who are rebelled... Just like the population in the prison house is insignificant compared to the whole population of the state, similarly, the living entities who are here in this material world, they are very insignificant. Including all the universes, all the planets together, they are an insignificant portion of the whole living entities. Ananta. Hy anantāya kalpate. The living entities, there is no counting, ananta, unlimited number of living entities. Therefore in the Vedas the living entities are plural, but God is one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).



*sarve ca nūtna*-vayasaḥ

*sarve cāru*-caturbhujāḥ

*dhanur*-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-

*śaṅkha*-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ

[SB 6.1.34]



*This is another description of the feature. Sarve ca nūtna*-vayasaḥ. In the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, the inhabitants are always young, just like Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu is always young. There is no old age. Old age is here in this material world because this material body becomes old, not the spirit soul. Spirit soul is always fresh. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So they are describing that "You are... You look all just very young." And sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ: "And you are beautifully embodied with four hands." Sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ. (aside:) What is that? Dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-śaṅkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ: "And exactly like Viṣṇu, you have got dhanur, bows; and śaṅkha, conchshell; cakra, disc; gadā, club; *and ambuja, padma, lotus flower. Everyone." That means everyone in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, they are exactly like the bodily feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa. This is called sārūpya*-mukti. There are five kinds of liberation. This liberation, to have the same bodily feature like Nārāyaṇa, is called sārūpya, "the form exactly like Viṣṇu." Sārūpya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberations: sāyujya, sālokya, sārūpya, sārṣṭi, sāmīpya [Cc. Madhya 6.266].



*So the Māyāvādī philosophers, they prefer sāyujya, to merge into the existence of impersonal existence. A living entity can live, can remain in the Brahman effulgence as a particle of shining. Just like there are many molecular particles in the sunshine, similarly, the living entities also can cluster together and live as a small particle of spiritual shining, and that is called brahma*-sāyujya-mukti. But that kind of existence is subjected to fall down again.

*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas

*tvayy asta*-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

patanty adho...

[SB 10.2.32]



Because the living entities, they want varieties of enjoyment, but in that impersonal existence there is no varieties of enjoyment, therefore, when they desire varieties of enjoyment, they have come to this material world. So even they merge into the effulgence of brahmajyoti, there is cause; there is chance of falling. Not all. Some of them may go to the planets, but there is chance.



*sarve ca nūtna*-vayasaḥ

*sarve cāru*-caturbhujāḥ

*dhanur*-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-

*śaṅkha*-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ



diśo vitimirālokāḥ

kurvantaḥ svena tejasā

*kim arthaṁ dharma*-pālasya

kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha



*"You are so brilliant that immediately on your appearance the darkness is dissipated. Immediately." They are so much, I mean to say, glowing, their body, in Vaikuṇṭha. Therefore in the Upaniṣad it is said that in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sun, moon. The planets and the bodily effulgence of the inhabitants, they are all glowing. So on account of everything glowing in the spiritual world, there is no necessity of sunshine or moonshine or electricity. They are self*-effulgent.



diśo vitimirālokāḥ

kurvantaḥ svena tejasā

*kim arthaṁ dharma*-pālasya

kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha



"You are so brilliant, you appear to be very enlightened and coming from some planets." Because they had no exactly idea what kind of planet they live. They are simply suggesting that "You must be coming from some very exalted planet. But why you are interfering with our business?"



*Kim arthaṁ dharma*-pālasya. Dharma-pāla. Yamarāja's another name is Dharmarāja or Dharmapāla. He is one of the authorities. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the śāstras. Brahmā is one authority, Lord Śiva is one authority, and Nārada is one authority. Then Manu is one authority, Prahlāda Mahārāja is authority, Bali Mahārāja is authority, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is authority. So similarly, Yamarāja is also authority. They are authority who know exactly what is God, or Kṛṣṇa, and they can direct. Therefore śāstra says you have to follow the authority. Otherwise it is not possible. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You cannot understand the path of religion by your mental speculation. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No ordinary man can enact dharma. Therefore there is dharma-viparya. Real dharma, actual dharma, is to abide by the words of the Supreme Lord. That is dharma. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ. That is dharma, simply to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not dharma. Man-made dharma is no dharma. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. You cannot manufacture religion. But nowadays it has become fashion. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. Therefore there is dharma-viparya. So one should know that dharma means the laws given by God. That is dharma. And such dharma, or the path of dharma, is strictly followed by these mahājanas. Just like Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Nārada, Manu, Kapila, Kapiladeva, Kapiladeva who enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy... Svayaṁbhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ, prahlādo bhīṣmaḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Bhīṣmadeva is also authority. You know Bhīṣmadeva, the grandfather of the Pāṇḍavas. He is also authority. Prahlāda, Bhīṣma... Bali Mahārāja is also authority. So we have to follow these authorities. Otherwise there is no possibility of understanding what is religion, what is God. This... Our, this sampradāya, Madhva-Gauḍīya sampradāya, they are following the authorities of Lord Brahmā and Nārada. Similarly, there is another sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. Rudra-sampradāya. And there is another sampradāya coming from Lakṣmījī, Śrī-sampradāya, Rāmānuja. So we have to accept religious principles from the leaders of the sampradāyas. Otherwise it is useless. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te viphalā matāḥ: "If you do not accept mantra initiation from the disciplic succession of the sampradāya, then it will be useless." Sampradāya-vihīnā ye. So people are manufacturing religion without any reference to these authorities.

*So diśo vitimirālokāḥ kurvantaḥ svena tejasā. Svena: "By your own effulgence you are dissipating the darkness, all directions. You are so bright, brilliant." Kim arthaṁ dharma*-pālasya: "Oh, we can understand that you are not ordinary living entities. You are coming from some exalted planet. What business you have got to interfere with our business?" Dharma-pālasya.

śrī-śuka uvāca

ity ukte yamadūtais te

*vāsudevokta*-kāriṇaḥ

tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ

*megha*-nirhrādayā girā



*When they were addressed by the assistants of Yamarāja, then the representative of Vāsudeva, vāsudevokta*-kāriṇaḥ, those who are followers of the order of Vāsudeva... Representative... (aside:) Again you have to stand, please. Tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ megha-nirhrādayā girā. Now, the Viṣṇudūta, they began to speak in a very grave language, just like resounding the cloud. (commentary:) Kim anya-lokasyānyasya prakāśa yat tu tathā bhūta diśaḥ kurvantaḥ bhavatam anuṣitaṁ yam ity āhuḥ kim artham ity āha (?). Indirectly, the Yamadūtas said that "You are so exalted, so it is not very good for you to interfere with our business." They politely submitted. And... (commentary:) Ato daṇḍyādaṇḍya-jñāna-śūnyā iti śaura evākṣnod dhiyā dharma-rājasya kiṅkarā ity anvitaṁ vadanti viṣayena prahasya tān pratyūcuḥ (?).



Now, Śrīdhāra Swami is commenting why they were smiling, these Viṣṇudūtas, because the Yamadūtas were criticizing, "Why you are interfering?" The Yamadūtas did not know that whatever action is taken by the representative of Viṣṇu, they are not, I mean to say, unnecessarily interference. They are actual fact. Therefore they are smiling, that "These Yamadūtas, without knowing our position, they are trying to criticize us." So they were smiling. Prahasya, prahasya. Just like if a child speaks something to a learned man, he smiles. So Viṣṇudūta were smiling, hearing the Yamadūtas. Meghasya eva nirhrāda hānir yasya prayātaḥ:(?) "They began to speak in grave voice, as if the thundering cloud."

*śrī*-viṣṇudūta uvāca

*yūyaṁ vai dharma*-rājasya

*yadi nirdeśa*-kāriṇaḥ

brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ

yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṇam



*"You are claiming to be representative of Dharmarāja, Yamarāja." Yamarāja is Dharmarāja. So Viṣṇudūta knows that they are representative. So he challenged. The Viṣṇudūtas challenged the Yamadūtas, that "You are accusing us that we are interfering with your business which is entrusted unto you by the Dharmarāja, the maintainer of dharma. Would you kindly explain what is dharma and what is adharma?" It is very intelligent answer. Yūyaṁ vai dharma*-rājasya: "If you are actually representative."



*Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that yei kṛṣṇa tattva*-vettā sei guru haya: [Cc. Madhya 8.128] "If anyone is representing as guru, he must know Kṛṣṇa." He must know. Kṛṣṇa cannot be known, but at least... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, yo jānāti tattvataḥ, that... One must know Kṛṣṇa in fact, tattvataḥ, in truth. He can become guru. Otherwise, guru is not a, so cheap post that everyone can become guru. Similarly, here is the challenge, that "If you are representative of Dharmarāja, you must explain what is dharma and what is adharma." That should be the criterion of test. Not that everyone should be accepted as religious, everyone should be accepted as guru. This ignorance of the population has created so many nonsense as representing as guru and dharma-jñā. No. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. The Vedic injunction says, tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, śābde pare ca niṣnātam. One is advised... First of all, who will accept a guru? Guru is not a plaything, that "I must have a guru, and I will never care to obey his orders, but because it is a fashion to keep a guru, I shall keep a guru." That kind of guru is useless, and that kind of disciple is also useless. One must seek after a guru-when? When he is inquisitive to understand the transcendental knowledge. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. It is not a fashion. It should be very serious. One who is very much eager to understand transcendental knowledge, śreya uttamam... Jijñāsuḥ śreya. Śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. There are two kinds of paths. Preyaḥ means immediate satisfaction or sense gratification, and preyaḥ means spiritual happiness, er, śreyaḥ. Śreyaḥ means spiritual happiness. Just like children, they are interested with playing. That is preyaḥ. Whereas, the elderly persons, they are interested to give education.

*So people... What is the meaning of this preaching? Why we are taking interest in preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because the people in general, they are interested in preyaḥ, for their sense gratification, immediate sense gratification. But that is not good for them. Bhāgavata says, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti: [SB 5.5.4] "Simply for sense gratification, they are committing so many sinful activities. It is like, just like madman." A madman does not know what he is doing. Similarly, the materialistic persons, they are so much engrossed and become maddened to commit everything simply for sense gratification. Indriya-prīti. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "It is not good. It is very risky life." If we indulge in sense gratification, Kṛṣṇa will give us facilities for sense gratification. Just like a monkey. A monkey has very good facility for sex life. A monkey, every monkey has got at least three dozen wives. Perhaps you know it. So he has been given the facility for sense gratification: "All right." But what is his position? He is a monkey. (laughter) Therefore it is called markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya means that a monkey is renounced. He does not dress, naked. And he lives in the forest. And he eats also fruit, vegetarian. But the nature is that he must have at least three dozen wives. You see? So the so-called sādhus or so-called vairagis, having illicit sex life very secretly, they are just like monkeys. So Rūpa Gosvāmī has said markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya.

*So markaṭa-vairāgya is not necessary. Real vairāgya. We do not indulge in so-called sannyāsī or brahmacārī. If one is unable, he must become a gṛhastha, live like a gṛhastha, and not that "I pose myself as a brahmacārī or a sannyāsī, but I have got illicit sex life secretly." This is markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya is not wanted. Real vairāgya. Real vairāgya means one who can sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is vairāgya. Karma-phala-tyāga*-that is karma-yoga. One should give up the result of his fruitive activities to Kṛṣṇa. That is karma-yoga. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ [Bg. 6.1]. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. One who is not desirous to enjoy the fruits of his activities, fruitive activities, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, but does it as a matter of duty... "Kṛṣṇa wants it. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied by doing this." Kāryam: "It must be done." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, for his personal interest, he was not willing to fight. But when he understood that "Kṛṣṇa wants this fighting," then he took it as kāryam: "It must be done. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not, but Kṛṣṇa wants it. Therefore I must do it." That is called anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī. He is sannyāsī. Na niragnir na cākriyaḥ. Niragnir and akriya. Akriya means they are freed, all kinds of fruitive activities. So they are not sannyāsīs, they are not yogis, but a yogi is he who gives away the result of his activities to Kṛṣṇa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ.

*So he is asking... Viṣṇudūta uvāca, yūyaṁ vai dharma*-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. It is a challenge: "So you are claiming that you are representative of Dharmarāja. So we want to know from you what is dharma." Just like yesterday some gentleman came. He said that he has performed yoga, and he has become Nārāyaṇa. Was not? Was not he speaking?

Guest: He has not come in there. He is not God.



Prabhupāda: Oh. So naturally... Just like somebody says that "I am God. I have become God by mystic yoga." So one should challenge him, "What kind of God you are? Whenever there is a toothache, you go to the doctor immediately. And you are God?" So I have seen. I have seen one man in America. He had some disciples, some. And he was claiming everyone is God, he is God. And one day he was suffering from toothache. So I asked him, "What kind of God you are, that you are so much painful, suffering from toothache?" And actually, one should challenge these... And they are, practically, another kind of lunatic, who claim that "I am God." Similarly, this challenge is given by the Viṣṇudūtas to the Yamadūtas, that "You are representative of Dharmarāja. Now explain what is dharma and what is adharma." brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṇam. Tattva, lakṣaṇam: the symptoms of adharma, and the truth of dharma.



kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ

kiṁ vāsya sthānam īpsitam

daṇḍyāḥ kiṁ kāriṇaḥ sarve

āho svit katicin nṛṇām



"Now explain who is subjected to the punishment of Yamarāja. You have come here to take away this Ajāmila to the court of Yamarāja. But first of all explain who is actually subjected to go to the court of Yamarāja for being punished." This is the question, and we shall discuss tomorrow about the answer. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



Yamunā: What is adhut? What is the (indistinct) adhu?



Prabhupāda: Dut? Avadhūta. Paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa stage, the highest stage of perfection... They are not under any rules and regulations, paramahaṁsa.



Yamunā: How does such a person engage?



*Prabhupāda: That's a long history. You'll find in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sthita-prajñasya. Sthita-prajñā. So there are many symptoms. On the whole, avadhūta or paramahaṁsa is not subjected to any rules and regulations. They are so elevated. That is not to be imitated. That is a post, position, very exalted, perfectional stage, spiritual advancement. So if you want to know the symptoms, that is in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is a list. But one thing you can simply know, a paramahaṁsa is a stage who is above all rules and regulations. That's all.



Haṁsadūta: (indistinct) disturbed.



Prabhupāda: Another nonsense. That's all.



Revatīnandana: So if he continues to follow these rules and regulations...



Prabhupāda: He doesn't follow. He doesn't follow. I can... I understand from his behavior.



Revatīnandana: But generally they do follow in the sense that they generally...



Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramahaṁsa...



Revatīnandana: For setting example for others?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramahaṁsa, they do not come in the society because people may imitate and they fall down. Therefore they are aloof. Just like Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja. He was aloof, bhajanānandī. But one who will act as preacher or spiritual master, even if he is paramahaṁsa, he should live ordinary so that his disciples may follow. He comes to second stage. Paramahaṁsa is the first stage, and preacher is in the second stage, and neophytes are in the third stage. So the neophyte should try to come to second stage. Īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu. They have got discrimination: Īśvara, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; *tad*-adhīna, the devotees; bāliśa, innocent; *and dviṣat, those who are atheists, envious of... As soon as they hear that here is something going on, talking about God, they become immediately envious. We have increased the number of this kind of men. There is someone interested in God. They simply challenge. They are called dviṣat. So a preacher should avoid them. But the paramahaṁsa, he does not avoid. So there are so many things. So we haven't got to imitate the activities of... A paramahaṁsa is a position, exalted position. They are very rare to be visible because they do not care to come in the society. So, and if you want to know about the paramahaṁsa, the sthita*-prajñā description in the Bhagavad-gītā, I think, in the Twelfth Chapter, you can know it.



Mālatī: Prabhupāda? Can you explain more about preyaḥ and śreyaḥ?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Śreyaḥ means ultimate benefit, and preyaḥ means immediate sense gratification. That is called... That is the difference between śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. That's all right.



Revatīnandana: So the transcendentalists are śreyaḥ? And the karmīs and others are...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, they are after preyaḥ. Those who are after śreyaḥ, they should follow the catur-āśrama, varṇāśrama. The varṇāśrama, according to Vedic system, the four kinds of varṇas or social caste, and four kinds of spiritual order, āśramas. That is the beginning of preyaḥ. Without this acceptance of these principles, according to Vedic principles, one is not considered as human being or civilized man. Because that is a system, if we follow that system, gradually we rise to the platform of śreyaḥ. If anyone does not follow regulative principles, it is very hard for him to come to the standard of śreyaḥ. But in this age, in Kali*-yuga, every man is so fallen that he cannot follow any regulative principles according to the Vedic scriptures. As such, they have been accepted as śūdras. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age everyone should be accepted as śūdra." But then how to elevate them? For elevating them, this..., not the Vedic system is to be followed but Pañcarātriki. Pañcarātriki... Just like we are trying to elevate these Europeans and Americans according to Pañcarātriki-vidhi. Everyone should be followed. It is not that Indians should not follow; *only the others will. No. It is for everyone, Pañcarātriki*-vidhi. The Pañcarātriki-vidhi means that if anyone has got little tendency for being elevated to the śreyaḥ platform, he should be given chance. That is called Pañcarātriki-vidhi. Just like dīkṣā, initiation. Śūdras are not given initiation. A śūdra cannot be initiated. Only the brāhmaṇas can be initiated, or dvija, or the vaiśyas and the kṣatriyas, the higher caste, not the śūdras. But according to Pañcarātriki-vidhi, even the śūdras or less than the śūdras, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā [SB 2.4.18], everyone can be initiated by a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, not by others. That is the system.



*Śyāmasundara: Does one become elevated by following the karma*-yoga principles only?



Prabhupāda: It will take a long, long time, and failure is possible. In this age, nothing is possible for the fallen people.



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



This is the injunction. If you want to be elevated to the perfectional stage of life, then you must chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. That will help you. No other method, measures, will help you. You can try for it, but there is every chance of failure. But if you follow this path, as enunciated by the śāstras and elaborated by Lord Caitanya, then there is chance. And actually we are seeing that is being done.



*Revatīnandana: In the First Chapter, God Realization booklet, First Chapter, Second Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, the process described there where it says that the gross materialists can begin meditating on the syllable om and then try to contemplate the universal form. That is not recommended for this age, right?



*Prabhupāda: No, that is not for the advanced stage. Those who cannot... Just like the materialistic persons, they cannot understand why we are worshiping Deity. They are puzzled. They think, "Why these fools are taking one brass doll and worshiping as God?" They laugh. You see? They cannot understand. They are hard... What is called? It is impossible for them. Therefore they have been recommended that "You think of God, the universal form." That they like, their meditation, that universal form. They cannot understand or concentrate on this form, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], dvi*-bhuja-muralīdhāra, Śyāmasundara form. They cannot. But by this arca process we are giving chance to everyone. But for the materialistic person it is difficult. They think that they are idol worshipers. But actually, the Vaiṣṇavas, they are not so fools that they will worship an idol. Therefore they have been recommended to concentrate on the universal form.



Revatīnandana: We always encourage chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, is that so?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only method in this age. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, one's... The reservoir of understanding will be cleared. And then you, he can receive, he can receive the spiritual knowledge. Without cleansing the heart it is very difficult to understand and receive spiritual knowledge. All these reformatory measures-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha*-they are simply the cleansing method. And bhakti is also a cleansing method, vidhi-bhakti. But by engaging oneself in this Deity worship, he also becomes cleansed. Tat-paratve... Sarvopādhi... As he becomes enlightened or advanced in understanding that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. He becomes purified. Sarvopādhi means he doesn't... Sarvopādhi. He tries to eliminate his upādhi, his designation, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." So in this way, when you become fully eliminated of this bodily concept of life, then nirmalam. He becomes nirmala, uncontaminated. And so long this concept of life is going on that "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," he's still in the... Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. (aside:) Sit down properly, not like that. Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Arcāyām eva haraye... Even in this process, when they are engaged in Deity worship, arcāyāṁ haraye yat-pūjāṁ śraddhāyehate, with great devotion doing, but na tad bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, but he has no sympathy with others or he does not know what is the position of a devotee, then sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ: "He is called material devotee, material devotee." So we have to elevate ourselves from material devotional stage to the second platform when one can understand what is a devotee, what is a nondevotee, what is God, what is atheist. These discriminations are there. And in paramahaṁsa stage there is no such discrimination. He sees everyone is engaged in service of the Lord. He does not envy anyone, he does not see anything, anybody. But that is another stage. We should not imitate, try to imitate, but we may know that paramahaṁsa is the highest stage of perfection. Just like as a preacher we have to point out... Just like I told this boy, "You sit down like this." But a paramahaṁsa will not say. A paramahaṁsa, he sees, rather: "He is all right." He sees. But we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. Because we are preacher, we are teacher, we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. We must tell the right source, right course.



Revatīnandana: You must be higher than the paramahaṁsa stage, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: I am lower than you. I am lower than you.



Revatīnandana: You are so beautiful. You are paramahaṁsa, but still, you are preaching to us.



Prabhupāda: No, I am lower than you. I am the lowest of the all creatures. I am simply trying to execute the order of my spiritual master. That's all. That should be the business of everyone. Try best. Try your best to execute the higher order. That is the safest way of progressing. One may be in the lowest stage, but if he tries to execute the duty entrusted upon him, he is perfect. He may be in lowest stage, but because he is trying to execute the duty entrusted to him, then he is perfect. That is the consideration. [break] Back to Godhead means one must be completely pure. A slight impurity will not allow. Kingdom of God is so, that no impure person can enter. Just like in your country. You belong to USA.? There are... In every country, there are so many. Especially in your country, there are so many immigrants, immigration to check whether contamination... Even they do not allow plants to be carried. Is it not? From one port to another. Why? Checking the contamination. So if in this material world such strict checkings are there, don't you think that one who enters, one who wants to enter the kingdom of God, there is no checking? Anyone will be able to enter? It is a commonsense affair.



*So kingdom of God means purity. So if there is slight impurity, he will not be allowed: "Keep aside." And it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Yeṣām: "Persons who are completely being freed from the contamination of sinful activities," yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmāṇām, "simply engaged in pious activities, they can become a devotee." Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 7.28]. These are clear statements. And the pillars of sinful activities, that is also mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Striya-sūna-pāna-dyūta yatra pāpaś catur-vidhāḥ: [SB 1.17.38] "Four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, and intoxication, and unnecessarily killing of animals, and gambling." All the slaughterhouses of the world are being maintained unnecessarily. That is recruiting simply sins. They are eating sins, and therefore the world is in trouble. Simply committing. There is no necessity of killing animals. But here in India they are killing ten thousand cows daily, what to speak of Western countries. So people are so much addicted to sinful activities. How they can be happy? They are condemned. Only this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if they take to this movement, they can be saved. Otherwise, there is no saving. They must cycle round the 8,400,000 species of life, sometimes very happy and sometimes very sad, sometimes this Brahma, sometimes the germs in the stool. This is going on, changing bodies, one after another, just like we change our dress. This will go on so long one is not completely freed from the sinful activities. Unless he enters into the kingdom of God, this cycle of birth and death will go on. Only in the spiritual sky there is no birth, death, old age, and disease. And as soon as you are out of the spiritual sky, these four things will... You may live for thousands of years. That doesn't matter, but you have to die. That is the law of material nature. You may have very good medicine, drug shop, as you have got in your country, but still, you have to suffer from diseases. You may have thousands of methods of contraceptives, but the population will increase. And as soon as there is death, and as soon as this body, the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi... [Bg. 13.9].

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā everything is clearly stated, that any intelligent person will put forward before him that "We have solved all our miserable conditions of life, but not these four principles." That is not possible. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: "The sufferings of birth, the sufferings of death, the sufferings of old age, and the sufferings of disease." That cannot be solved. That can only be solved if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. Otherwise it is not possible. You may be a very great yogi. You may be very great meditator. All these things, they are very nice. They can elevate you from higher standard of life. Just like your country, USA, you have got higher standard of life than India, in one sense. But you can have thousand thousands more higher standard of life in higher planets. Thousand thousand times. As there is comparison between India and USA, or any country, similarly, in planetary system also, there is comparison. This planet is so much full of material pleasures, another planet so much, so much. But in no planet there is the guarantee that there will be no death. That is not possible. That is stated in the Bhagavad..., ā-brahma-bhuvanāl-lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even if you go to the Brahmaloka where one twelve hours means thousands of four yugas, still, there is death. So you cannot avoid this. So one who is serious... So we shall begin. What is this name of this magazine? Asia?

Śyāmasundara: Asia. Asia magazine.



Prabhupāda: Asia magazine. It is published from London?



Guest (1): It is published from Hong Kong.



*Prabhupāda: Hong Kong. Oh, I see. Oh, our New Vrindaban. (laughs) Very nice. So you have published very nice pictures. So it is not... You can take it to our... This is one picture, and this is one picture. Bring. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Side by side, hell and heaven. One has to select. [break] ...and the spiritual world there is only one class of men. Therefore spiritual world is called absolute. There is no disagreement. The center is Kṛṣṇa, or God, and everyone is engaged in His service in love, not paid servant. Paid servant will always disagree in proportion to the money he receives. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is no question of paid servant. Everyone is free. Everyone has got sufficient because, as I told you yesterday, that they are all liberated. They have got equal opulence like God. But still, they serve. That is the superiority(?). Here one serves in need, and there they serve without need. There is no need of service. Everything is there complete. Cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29]. It is said that there are kalpa-vṛkṣa, desire tree. Desire tree means a tree from which you can get enything you desire. Then why there should be service? Here service is forced. If you don't render service, then you will starve. This nature is called avidyā-karma-saṁjñānya tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. Karma-saṁjñā. Here one may be king, but still he has to work, and what to speak of the poor man. Everyone has to work. This is called avidyā-karma-saṁjñā. But in the spiritual world there is no question of work.



So there are two classes of men in this material world, not in the spiritual world. The spiritual world is one. They are all cognizant that "We are eternally servant of God." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are plural number living entities; *they are all being provided with one cetana, the supreme cetana. So these two classes of men are known... One is known as demigods or servant of God. And another is called a servant of māyā. Both of them are servants. Nobody is master. That is not possible. Only one master is God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa: [Cc. Ādi 5.142] "Only īśvara, or the controller, or the master, is Kṛṣṇa." Āra saba bhṛtyā: "And any other, either demigods or ordinary [break] living entities(?), they are all servants." Yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya: "Now, under the direction of the Supreme Lord, everyone is dancing or working." In the common word we say that "We are dancing dogs." Because under the direction of the master... The master says "You please dance," the dog will dance. So master, because the dog knows that "He is my master. If I don't dance, then I will starve." So actually that is the position. Nobody is master here. But when you falsely claim that "I am master," that is māyā. Everyone is serving, but under the impression that he is master. The head of the family, he is thinking that "I am the master," but actually he is serving each and every member of the family. The state executive officer-you may call a king or a president*-he is thinking that "I am king," "I am president," but actually he is serving. That is his position. Unless he serves properly, immediately he will be dethroned or next time he will not be elected. So that is our position. We are all serving. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtyā [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. This is a fact. Only master is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is

servant. Who can challenge this statement? Is there anyone within this hall, that "I don't serve anyone"? Is there anyone? And somebody is claiming that "I am God." Just see. This is called illusion, māyā. This claim is made by the illusioned living entity. Here, this material world means everyone is trying to become the master. And there is competition between one master to another. Because nobody is master, that competition, that "I shall become master," that is illusion. So in this illusory fighting and competition, when one fails, that "I could not become the master..."

For example, in our country we respected Mahātmā Gandhi as the father of the nation or the master of the nation. But actually, he was servant. As soon as there was little discrepancy, immediately he was put to death. Immediately. Similarly, in USA also, President Kennedy, he was very popular president, but as soon as there was little discrepancy, he was also killed. So this position we must know, that nobody is master here; *everyone is servant. But the real position is to become the servant of God. That he is, but because... Just like a criminal. He thinks that "I don't care for any law." But he is forced to obey the laws in the prison house. Outside or inside, he has to obey the laws of the government, but under illusion he thinks that "I don't care for the government." Similarly, those who are rascals, they think that "There is no God. I am God. I don't care for anyone." That is another class, demonic class. And those who obey the laws of God, they are called demigods. Dvau bhūta*-sargau loke daiva āsura eva ca [Bg. 16.6].

*There are two classes of men in this world. One is called daiva, and the other is called āsura. Āsura means rebelled against God: "Don't care for God. I am God. You are God. Everyone is God. Why you are searching after God? There are so many Gods in the streets, lying on the footpath, daridra*-nārāyaṇa. You serve these Gods." You see? This is illusion. Daridra-nārāyaṇa, starving God. So many subscription are raised in America in the name of serving these daridra-nārāyaṇas in India. Now these Americans are questioning that "You take money for serving the daridra-nārāyaṇa. Why we see...? When we go to India, why we see so many daridra-nārāyaṇas are lying on the footpath?" These questions are being made. One of the big Ramakrishna Mission swamis, Swami Nikhilananda, he told me. It is not my manufactured story. Actually, people are claiming welfare society, welfare activities. But what welfare they are doing actually? The welfare activities are increasing, and the candidates for receiving the welfare, they are increasing. You are trying to serve the daridra-nārāyaṇa, but actually the number of daridra-nārāyaṇas are increasing daily. So that is the position. Here, practically, Nārāyaṇa cannot be daridra. That is another illusion. Nārāyaṇa is the husband of the goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī. How He can be daridra? It is also manufactured word. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.29]. Here we keep one Lakṣmī, but as soon as there is any little discrepancy, the Lakṣmī immediately becomes angry and there is divorce. Practically there is no respect from the side of Lakṣmī to the so-called daridra-nārāyaṇa. But there, thousands and thousands of Lakṣmīs are very respectfully serving the Lord. You'll read in the story of Rukmiṇī, the prime Lakṣmī of Lord Kṛṣṇa. One day Kṛṣṇa was a little joking, and she took it very seriously, and she immediately fainted. So much respect. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa might be thinking of leaving me." So she fainted immediately. So much sambhrama. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ [Bs. 5.29]. These are the statements of scripture. And when Kṛṣṇa was actually present on the planet, He showed it, how much He is respectfully served by His sixteen thousand wives, and how much comfortably He kept all of them in different palaces, and expanding Himself into sixteen thousand forms. That is God. That is God. So everyone, even the Lakṣmī is servant, maidservant of Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of others? Dāsī. So how one can claim that "I am God"? God is not so cheap. Only persons who are illusioned, they claim that "I am God." He is servant. Instead of becoming, voluntarily rendering service to God, because they claim to be God they are more put into illusion. Māyā-graṣṭa jīvera sei dāsa upajaya. It is said in the Vaiṣṇava literature, piśacī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya, māyā-graṣṭa jīvera sei dāsa upajaya: "Just like a person, when he is haunted by ghosts, he speaks all kinds of nonsense, similarly, when a living entity is engrossed by the illusory aspect of this material nature, he also talks all foolishly." He also talks... One of the greatest foolish things is that he claims that "I am God."

*So God is not so cheap. Therefore there are two classes of men: asura and devatā. You have heard that there is always fight between asuras and devatās because asuras are always against God, and devatās, they are servant of God. That is the difference. Even at home there are, there was asura and devatā. The father was an asura, and the son was a devatā, Prahlāda Mahārāja. And the father became enemy of the son. Naturally, father is always affectionate. But because he was asura, he became against his beloved son. That is the nature of the asura. Even asuras... Just like tiger also has got affection for the cub, so this Hiraṇyakaśipu was affectionate because Prahlāda Mahārāja was very nice boy, five years old, very good looking. Natural affection. He was youngest. And one day he asked the son, "My dear boy, what you have learned the best thing? Tell me." Just like father asks sometimes. So he described that "One should sacrifice everything for realizing God." Tat sādhu manye 'sura*-varya dehinām, asad-grahāt... I forget that śloka now, that Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "That is the best way of life in the human form of life, to utilize this opportunity for realizing God." That was his version. And the father became very angry. And from that day, father, the father taught, instructed the teachers, that "How is that you are teaching all this nonsense to my boy?" They replied, "Sir, we do not teach. This boy is naturally God-inclined. What can I do? As soon as he gets opportunity, he begins to preach God consciousness in the class." When the teacher is absent, immediately Prahlāda Mahārāja stands up on the bench and he addresses the friends, "My dear boys, this is the life for realizing God. You don't forget this." In this way he was lecturing. These are in the Bhāgavata.

*So the demigods means God*-realized persons or servant of God. They have dedicated their life for the service of the Lord, whereas the asuras, they are always against such principles. So here also the same thing is happening. Yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. The Viṣṇudūtas challenged the Yamadūta that "If you are actually the servants of your master, Dharmarāja..." Yamarāja is Dharmarāja. Another name is Dharmarāja. He is also representative of God. Just like a magistrate, he also deals with the criminal cases, but magistrate is not bad. Magistrate is representative of the government. Similarly, Dharmarāja, although punishes all criminals or sinful persons, but he is a pure servant of God. Therefore his name is Dharmarāja. He is executing the order of the master. So therefore the Viṣṇudūtas challenged the Yamadūtas that "If you are actually serving your master, Dharmarāja..." Just like a police constable is supposed to know the law, whom to arrest. If he arrests anyone and everyone, then he is a fool. He cannot arrest anyone and everyone. He cannot arrest a law-abiding man. Similarly, the Yamadūtas, they also cannot take away to the court of the Yamarāja everyone and anyone. No. Only the nondevotees are taken. Those who are devotees, they are not taken. That is... You will find in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Yamarāja especially instructs that "Those who are Vaiṣṇavas, you should not go there. You should offer your respect to them." Somebody asked me that "Swamijī, why these tulasī beads in your neck or your devotees' neck?" So I replied, "Just like a pet dog has got a collar, similarly we are pet dogs of God. We have got this collar. And Yamarāja will understand that 'He is God's dog. He should not be shot down.' " (laughter)

So actually that is the position. Anyone... There is a verse. There is a verse that "Don't go to the Vaiṣṇavas." The Yamadūtas were especially instructed. But this Ajāmila was known, a sinful person. Everyone knew. But he had become, I mean to say, free from all sinful contamination because at the time of death, he uttered the word "Nārāyaṇa" without any offense. The Yamadūtas, they could not understand that he is no more under the laws of criminal punishment; *he is free from all contamination. And actually, that is the position. Kṛṣṇa... One who utters the name "Kṛṣṇa," he immediately becomes free from all sinful activities, immediately. That is the power of Kṛṣṇa's name. But the difficulty is that after being freed, we again commit mistake in sinful activity. Kṛṣṇa's name has got the power. As soon as you utter the name "Hare Kṛṣṇa," immediately you become freed from all contamination. Therefore if one thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, so even if I commit sinful activities, that will be counteracted by my chanting," that is another, greatest offense. That we have discussed many times, that on the strength of holy name of Lord, if one commits sinful activities, he is a greatest offender. Just like sometimes we find in Christian churches. They go on Sunday, and they confess, and they are supposed to be excused from the sinful reaction. But again, after coming back from the church, again commits the same sins with expectation that "Next week, when I shall go to the church, I shall confess, and it will be counteracted." This kind of, I mean to say, understanding is prohibited, this kind of understanding. One... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted Jagāi*-Mādhāi. They were very sinful. What is their sin? The illicit sex, woman-hunter, drunkard, meat-eaters. That's it. That is sinful activities according to Vedic scripture. So they became debauchees and gundas, a disturbing element. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them. Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them on one condition. What is that condition? When they fell down on the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda, "Sirs, we are so much sinful. Kindly deliver us"-there is a long history, incidence; *I will tell you some day*-Caitanya Mahāprabhu made one condition, that "I can accept you only on your promise that you shall no more commit sinful activities. What you have done, that is all right. I will excuse. But if you commit again, that will be greatest offense." So they said, āra nāre bābā. Āra nāre: "No more, sir. This is the end of our sinful activities. No more we shall do it."

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya, we are also following the same principles under the authority of Lord Caitanya. When we accept somebody in our society as initiated member we put forward this obligation, restriction, that "No more illicit sex life, no more gambling, no more intoxication and no more animal food." That is necessary. If you accept spiritual life, at the same time go on committing sinful activities, then you will never be able to progress. That is not possible. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said by Kṛṣṇa, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmāṇām: "Persons who are completely freed from all contamination of sinful activities and simply engaged in pious activity, they only are admitted in devotional service." So if you are actually serious about entering into the kingdom of God, Vaikuṇṭha, then you should be very much careful about these four principles of restriction. No illicit... You cannot have any sex life without being married. That is sinful activity. You cannot indulge in intoxication. You cannot eat anything which is beyond the jurisdiction of your food. For you, for a human being, the food is, I mean to say, given there, quota, that "You can eat grains. You can eat fruits. You can eat flowers, vegetables. You can eat milk." That is sattvikāhāra, foodstuff prepared from vegetables, fruits, grains, sugar, and milk products. That's all. That is sattvika. That is allotted for the human being. You cannot imitate the cats and dogs: "Because they are eating meat, I also meat... Meat also is my food." They put forward, "Everything is food." So why don't you eat stool? That is also food*-for the hog. So we must have discrimination, that what sort of food we shall take. Not that like hogs, anything will be accepted. That is humanity. So in this way, actually if we enter, if we want to enter into spiritual life, then these four principles of restriction must be observed. [break]

*...And those who do not believe in God and act according to whims, such persons are called asuras. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. It is clearly stated, māyayā apahṛta-jñānā asuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. This very word is very important: asuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. They have... Because they have taken to the shelter of asuri-bhāva, atheistic philosophy, in spite of advancement of education, they are narādhama, lowest of the mankind. These words are exactly there. Naradhāmā. You cannot say, "How you can say this gentleman asura? He is so much educated, highly qualified, university degree." The answer is there, māyayā apahṛta-jñānā: "Yes, it appears that he is very learned, but his actual knowledge is taken away by the māyā on account of his being atheistic." And such atheistic person, bewildered by māyā and being lowest of the mankind, they cannot surrender unto God. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So these things may not be very palatable, but these things are there in scriptures. We have to preach the scriptural injunction. Therefore we say, "Bhagavad-gītā as it is." You cannot play hide and seek with the problem of life. You must know your real position, and you must...

*Therefore here it is asked that brūta dharmasya nas tattvam. So dharma and adharma. There are two kinds of activities, dharma... Dharma means one who is acting according to the order of God. That is dharma. And one who is not acting according to the order, that is adharma. Therefore the challenge was there: "If you are actually representative of Dharmarāja, you must know what is dharma and what is adharma. You explain." That means they are also not aware what was the actual position of Ajāmila. They did not know that although throughout his whole life he was sinful, but because at the time of his death he simply remembered Nārāyaṇa... But that is also difficult. We may not think that "Let me now go on committing all sinful activities. At the time of death I shall remember Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa." That is not possible. It is only possible for persons who had some intimate relationship with Nārāyaṇa. This Ajāmila had very intimate relationship with Nārāyaṇa. When he was boy, when he was being trained up by his father, he was very faithful to Nārāyaṇa, to his father. Up to twenty years, he served very nicely Nārāyaṇa. Therefore he had the effect of remembering Nārāyaṇa at the time of death. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, svalpam api asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. If even slight of this Nārāyaṇa-dharma is practiced, it can save you from the greatest danger. So why not take to this Nārāyaṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness always, twenty-four hours? Then there is no question of danger. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. One who has become nārāyaṇa-para, he is not afraid of anything. Na kutaścana bibhyati. Why he should be afraid? He knows, "There is Nārāyaṇa; there is Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I be afraid?"

So, it is past six.

Devotee (1): Can I ask one question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (1): You said that Ajāmila, because he chanted "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa," offenselessly, so he went to Vaikuṇṭha. And then you said if we are chanting, if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, all our sinful activities are washed away. Is that so even if we chant offensively?



Prabhupāda: Offensive means when you chant with this idea that "Now I am chanting, all my sinful activities are gone. So again I can commit sinful activities, and I shall chant, 'Nārāyaṇa.' " That is offense. That is offense. Knowingly you are committing sinful activities. You know this is sinful activity, but you are thinking on the strength of chanting that "Even if I commit this offense, sinful activities, it will be counteracted by my chanting." That is offense. That offense was not there in the case of Ajāmila. He was young man. He was being trained up by his father in the Nārāyaṇa philosophy, Nārāyaṇa life. But due to bad association he became a victim to all kinds of sinful activities, and that was not offense. You can fall down by, I mean to say, unaware the association. But if you are offenseless, then you'll be saved. But if you purposely think that "Because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it can counteract my sinful activities," that is the greatest offense, knowingly. Ajāmila did not know. He was a boy. He fell a victim to bad association, but he was not offender. He did not do it purposefully. Therefore he was saved. Yes.



Guest (2): Why Vaiṣṇavas are...? They are bearing(?) one of the risks(?). Yamadūtas are not going. Is there already some rules(?) of they or something like that?



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not to be kept falsely. You see? Yamadūtas are... They are very intelligent. If you keep it falsely, they can catch you. They are not foolish persons that you can cheat him. No, it is not possible. You must be actually Vaiṣṇava; then you are excused. Otherwise not. You cannot cheat. So they are being trained up to become actually Vaiṣṇavas, not a pseudo Vaiṣṇava, simply for earning livelihood. No. That is not our proposition. And those who are earning livelihood by presenting himself as false Vaiṣṇava, their condition is more condemned. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Instead of earning your livelihood by presenting yourself as a Vaiṣṇava, better you become a sweeper in the street and earn your livelihood. Don't cheat." That was the order of my Guru Mahārāja. "It is better to become a sweeper in the street than to become a false Vaiṣṇava." That is real philosophy.



Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, you said that the greatest offense is to chant thinking that "My sins will be washed away" and commit sins, or wants to.(?) So what is the result that that person gets if he dies in that condition?



Prabhupāda: He dies a sinful. Because he does not want to go back to Godhead, he wants to make some profit, so he dies sinful, and he has to be punished for that reason, in spite of his false this tilaka and false mālā. He'll be punished. Yes?



Karttikeya: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Even if a person is completely engrossed in material activities, but somehow or other, they utter the name of Kṛṣṇa... Like you said my mother attained Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, although she was completely absorbed in material activities...



Prabhupāda: That was due to your grace. You reminded your mother at the time of her death, "Kṛṣṇa." You were a good boy of your mother, and she got the opportunity, remembering Kṛṣṇa, and got all the profit due to having a good son like you. Yes, his mother... I do not wish to discuss. But we are not at all... Just like European ladies there. So he was visiting his mother and inspiring her, "Mother, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," whatever he has learned from me. She got some idea of Kṛṣṇa, later on developed little affection for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So at the time of death, by seeing him, she simply inquired from him, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and died immediately. So she was fortunate to have a good son like him who reminded, by his presence, "Kṛṣṇa," and she became liberated. Therefore these things are required, Vaiṣṇava symptoms. People will immediately remember Kṛṣṇa by this tilaka, by this beads, by their fearures. Immediately they will know, "Here are the groups of Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Yes?



Guest (2): Who can be told as a true Vaiṣṇava?



*Prabhupāda: That you have to learn*-not in a minute. That you have to be trained up. Just see how they are being trained up. You cannot ask who has passed M.A. because you have to become M.A. Then you can. Not that simply asking for a minute you can understand. It is a long course of training. You have to admit yourself in the Vaiṣṇava school and become trained up. Then you will understand what is Vaiṣṇava. Yes?



Revatīnandana: Did I... In Indore did I understand, Prabhupāda, that you said that at first Ajāmila saw his son. And because his son's name was Nārāyaṇa, and he remembered, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa..." By calling for his son, he remembered Kṛṣṇa. Finally, he was calling Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: That is the commentary by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, so we have to accept our ācāryas. That is commentary. But some way or other, Nārāyaṇa, the very name, the holy name, has got so much power. That you have to understand. So those who are always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they are saved. It is not a show. But offenseless chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will always keep us safe and sound from the attack of māyā. And there is no expenditure; *there is no loss. Why people should not take? Why this obstinacy? I ask. They are thinking that "I have become civilized. I have become educated. Therefore I shall not do this." So are they not educated? Are they not civilized? Why Indian boys are refusing? That is my question. They are losing the opportunity of taking birth in India. They are so much fortunate to take their birth in India, and they are refusing this culture. That is the effect of this modern education. Āpana dhana dilaye diye bhikṣa bhaje pareka.(?) What is the position of India? Nobody cares for India. Wherever I go, they say, "Oh, India? That's poverty*-stricken country." That is your good name. Because you are actually going. Your administrators are going: "Give me. Give me grains. Give me money. Give me weapons so I can be saved from the slapping of China." A begging business. The India's position is not very glorious outside India. You may be puffed up that you have become independent. But everyone is anxious to have your spiritual culture, everyone. They know. Even a Chinaman, he has written one book that is recommended in New York University. He says that "If you want to know about spiritual culture and religion, then you must go to India." So you are all young boys. You should be very responsible. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said specifically, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila jāra: "Anyone who has taken birth as a human being in the land of Bhāratavarṣa," janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra, "just make your life successful and do welfare activities for others." So you must realize, because in India you have got this Kṛṣṇa science or spiritual culture so nicely left by so many sages, so many saintly persons. You do not make your life successful by following their path. And what can you do for yourself or for others? You cannot be glorious simply by imitating them. When you have established some technological institution, you will find in the Western countries, they are hundred years ahead than you. So in that way you cannot make competition. You should realize your own assets and distribute to the world, and that will make you glorious. (end)





750719SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.37

-

San Francisco, July 19, 1975



Nitāi: "Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued to speak: After the messengers of Yamarāja thus addressed the Viṣṇudūtas, those perfected beings who are personal associates of Vāsudeva smiled and, with voices resounding as the sound of the cloud, gravely spoke the following words."



Prabhupāda:



ity ukte yamadūtais te

*vāsudevokta*-kāriṇaḥ

tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ

*megha*-nirhrādayā girā

[SB 6.1.37]



*So the Yamadūtas, they very politely submitted. They could understand immediately that these persons so nicely decorated, four hands, looking very youthful, all the good qualities... So with due submission, they said that "You look so nice, gentle. Why you are interfering with our duties?" Kim arthaṁ dharma*-pālasya kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha. So they accepted the submission. Very humbly they submitted, with great respect. Therefore they were smiling. And the word is used here, tān pratyūcuḥ prahasya idam. When there is argument, dealing, if the words are exchanged very politely, so things go on nicely. So prahasya. Prahasya, now they are challenging, the Viṣṇudūta, that "You are claiming to become the servants of Yamarāja, and he is Dharmarāja, he is authority, and how is that you do not know whom to arrest and whom not to arrest? This man is now free from all sinful reaction. How is that you are claiming to be servant of Yamarāja, Dharmarāja, and do not know?" Therefore they were smiling.



*So their challenge was that "You are claiming to be servants of Yamarāja, but we are doubting whether you are bona fide servants of Yamarāja. Otherwise why you are committing this mistake?" So this indicates the servant should be as good as the master. That is servant. Because sometimes servants may be challenged. So that is the qualification of Kṛṣṇa's servant. Kṛṣṇa's servant must be always equipped, because they have to meet so many opposing elements, Kṛṣṇa's the... Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. There are so many... Practically the whole material world is full of duṣkṛtām. They want to create God. They don't want to become servant of God. That is their challenge. Therefore, anyone who is claiming to become servant of God, Kṛṣṇa, he must be well equipped to meet the challenging spirit of others. Prahasya idaṁ megha*-nirhrādayā girā. Very gravely enquired from them. What is that enquiry? They said, śrī-viṣṇudūtā ūcuḥ. The Viṣṇudūta replied. Their submission was, "Sir, you are so nice gentlemen. You appear to be coming from the very elevated planets, and why you are interfering?"

So they, with very grave voice and smiling, challenging them. What is that?

*yūyaṁ vai dharma*-rājasya

*yadi nirdeśa*-kāriṇaḥ

brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ

yac cādharmasya lakṣaṇam



*"So if you are actually servant of Dharmarāja, then you must know what is dharma and what is adharma." Yūyaṁ vai dharma*-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. "That will be your bona fide representation. You cannot do any mistake if you are servant of Dharmarāja." Dharmarāja means... Here there are so many living entities, of course, in the human society. I have explained many times. Dharma, religious system, is in the human society, not in the animal society. The animals does not... They have no knowledge; neither they have capacity to distinguish what is dharma, what is adharma. Their business is simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. It is the human society, another extra, not only simply eating, sleeping, mating. That is required because we have got this body. But we have got extra intelligence. Why this extra intelligence? That is for understanding dharma, religion.



But unfortunately, the modern rascal society, they utilizing that extra intelligence than the cats and dog for the same purpose: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is the defect of the modern civilization. In spite of advancement of education, scientific knowledge, technical knowledge, this knowledge, that knowledge, they remain the same cats and dogs. This is the defect. Therefore people are dissatisfied, disappointed. God has given him extra intelligence for understanding God, but they are being misled: "There is no God. You utilize it for your sense gratification." This is education. Extra... Therefore they are thinking, "The dog is eating on the street. We are eating in a very good hotel on nice table, nice dishes. This is advancement of life." But they do not think that after all, the dog is eating, you are also eating. You may be a better dog, that's all. So what is your extra business? So a dog is eating only flesh or meat, because God has ordained. But you are ordained to eat fruits, flowers, nice grain, milk preparation, but you, because you are dog, you are eating meat. The extra intelligence that... Because you have got extra intelligence, you should utilize the food for you. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam [Īśo mantra 1]. The Upaniṣad, *Vedas*, says, "What you are ordained to take or accept... Everything belongs to God, but He has given allotment: 'You use like this. You use like this.' " So if you imitate dog instead of human being... You are advanced human being. Why should you eat like dog or the uncivilized man? The uncivilized man in the jungle, he does not know how to produce grain, how to prepare many nice preparation. He does not know. But you are civilized man. Why you should eat like dogs and tigers? This is misuse of intelligence.

*So therefore, as they are challenging, that first of all, "You are claiming to be servant of Dharmarāja, so let us know what do you know about dharma?" so similarly, we should also challenge, "If you are human being, you must know how to live like human being. Otherwise you are animal. If you eat like animal, sleep like animal and have sex like animal and defend like animal, then you are animal." They say that "It is very good to become dog because there is no restriction of sex life. We can have it on the street." They think like that. "This is advancement." The animals wander naked, so man is also trying to become naked, nudism. This is life. So their extra intelligence is being used like that*-very, very abominable condition of the human society. You are the only hope to save them. Otherwise it is doomed.

*So the question is, they are challenged, "What is dharma and what is adharma? If you are servant of Dharmarāja, you must distinguish what is dharma." So even though the Yamadūtas, they are not very good*-looking as the Viṣṇudūtas, still, this question was put to them to explain. They are not very much civilized, you may say. Still, they are expected to know this distinction. Just see. Even the Yamadūtas were how much advanced, and how we are advanced? We do not know what is dharma, what is adharma. We don't make any distinction. Dharma is... We have repeatedly said: dharma means to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, simple. And adharma means everything except this. If you don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then whatever you are doing, that is adharma, means nonreligious. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra. Kaitava means cheating, false, pretentious. So all kinds of cheating religion is kicked out. Cheating religions, they are teaching that "We can create God. As we can create television, similarly, we can create God." They are teaching, "This is dharma." Just see how degraded they have... And these things are going on as dharma. Brūta dharmasya nas tattvam. Tattvam. Tattvam means truth. "Don't talk nonsense. Don't waste time." Tattvam: "In truth, what is dharma?" Brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṇam: "And how you distinguish from adharma, nonreligious thing?" Knowledge means you should know both things, not one side. You must know what is religious system and what is not religious system. Simply one side is not full knowledge. Upayaṁ ca cintayet prajñā, apayaṁ ca cintayet(?). Just like if you want to do some business, you have calculated that "I shall invest so much money, and I shall get so much profit. So let us do this business. It is very nice." But śāstra says, "No, you have simply calculated the profit, and you also calculate no profit, not one-sided." Similarly, to know dharma, you must know adharma also, the opposite side. If you know white, you should know what is black. Otherwise the knowledge is not... Relative. This world is... If you know the father, then you must know the son. Or if you know the son, then you must know the father. So in the religious system, if one knows the son, the further improvement is to know the father. That is required. Otherwise incomplete. If you simply know the son of God, then it is incomplete. If you know the father of the son of God, then it is complete.

*So here, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there are... In all other religious system, they say that "Our this leader is son of God." Somebody says, "He is... Our leader is a servant of God." So now, because you did not know who is the master, who is the father, therefore gradually it has dwindled. Now we must know. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is awarding, "Here is the father of the son of God*-Kṛṣṇa. Here is the master of the servant." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So there is no quarrel with other religious system. They know simply the son of God, but they do not know who is the father of the son. That is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the seed-giving father." Whose father? Sarva-yoniṣu. "In all forms of living entity." Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti [Bg. 14.4]. Beginning from the microscopic living entities up to the Brahmā, the biggest, so Kṛṣṇa claims that "I am the father of Brahmā as well as the microscopic germ." Sarva-yoniṣu. So you should know. And if anyone understands Kṛṣṇa, how He is father of Brahmā and father of this microscopic germ, then he becomes perfect, immediately. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. The tattva, truth, if you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, how He is father of Lord Brahmā and how He is father of the microscopic germ, and if you in truth understand what is this microscopic germ and what is this Brahmā, what is this human being, what is this tiger, what is this tree, so to know Kṛṣṇa means to know everything.

*Therefore in the Vedas it is said, kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati: "If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become full knowledge." That is complete knowledge. Etaj jñānam. This is... Bhagavad*-gītā says, "This is knowledge." If you simply study Kṛṣṇa, so what is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. Suppose if you want to study somebody, you may guess that this body, this man, may be like this, like that. That is going on all over the world, what is God. Some theosophist, some theosophist and theologist, all are speculating, "Maybe," "Perhaps," "This, that." And the God is explaining Himself, "I am this, like this," that they will not take. Just see. God is canvassing that "Here I am. I have come." Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. "I have appeared before you just to give you relief." Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. "You are trying to understand Me, so here I am. I am present. Why you are thinking God is formless? Here I am, Kṛṣṇa, form. You see, I have got My flute in the hand. I am very much fond of the cows. I love the cows and the sage and Brahmā, everyone equally, because they are all My sons in different bodies." Kṛṣṇa is playing. Kṛṣṇa is speaking. Still, these rascals will not understand Kṛṣṇa. So what is Kṛṣṇa's fault? It is our fault. Andha. Just like the owl. Owl will never open the eyes to see that there is sunlight. You know this, owl? So they will not open. However you may say, "Mr. Owl, please open your eyes and see the sun," "No, there is no sun. I don't see." (laughter) This owl civilization. So you have to fight with these owls. You must be very strong, especially the sannyāsīs. We have to fight with the owls. We have to open their eyes by force from this, with machine. (laughter) So this is going on. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a fight against all the owls.

*So here is a challenge: yūyaṁ vai dharma*-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. Nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. Servant means they have no second choice than to carry out the orders of the master. Therefore nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. They cannot argue. No. Whatever is ordered, that is served. So if anyone claims to become... He is expecting the... I think... Here the Viṣṇudūtas are also mentioned here, vāsudevokta-kāriṇaḥ. They are also servant. So ukta means whatever order is given by Vāsudeva, they carry out. Similarly, the Yamadūtas, they are servant of Yamarāja. They are also addressed nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ: "If you are actually servant of Yamarāja, you act according to his direction, then you must know what is dharma and what is adharma." So they are actually bona fide servant of Yamarāja, there is no doubt about it. Now they are giving their identification in this way, yamadūtā ūcuḥ veda-praṇihito dharmaḥ, immediately answered. "What is dharma?" That was the question. Immediately answered. They know what is dharma. Veda-praṇihito dharmaḥ: "Dharma means what is explained in the Vedas." You cannot create dharma. Veda, the original knowledge, Veda means knowledge. Veda-śāstra. So from the time of creation, the Veda was given to Brahmā. Veda... Therefore it is called apauruṣeya; *it is not manufactured. That is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Brahma, brahma means Veda. Vedas another name is brahma, spiritual knowledge, or all knowledge, brahma. So tene brahma ādi-kavaye hṛdā. So Veda has to be studied from the spiritual master.

*So it is said that the Brahmā is the first living being who understood Vedas. So how he understood? Where is The teacher? There is no other creature. How he understood Vedas? Now, that teacher was Kṛṣṇa, and He is situated in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So He is teaching from the heart. So Kṛṣṇa teaches*-He is so kind-as caitya-guru, from the heart, and He sends His representative from outside. Caitya-guru and guru, both ways, Kṛṣṇa is trying. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. So therefore Vedas, they are not man-made books. Veda, apauruṣeya. Apauruṣeya means not made by... We should not take Vedas as ordinary mental speculation book. No. It is perfect knowledge. It is perfect knowledge. And one has to take as it is, without any adulteration, interpretation. So it is spoken by God. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā is also Veda. It is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot make any addition, alteration. You must take it as it is. Then you get the right knowledge. Vedas, how... The example is given. Perhaps you know several times that the Vedas, how it should be accepted as it is without interpretation. Just like Vedas says that if you touch stool, immediately you have to take your bath. You have become impure. This is Vedic injunction. If you touch bone, then you have become impure. You have to take your bath immediately, full. Then Vedas say, "Now, the stool of cow is pure, cow dung." Now, with your reason you can say, "First of all you said that stool is impure, and as soon as you touch you must take your bathing. Otherwise you remain impure. So another stool, cow stool, you say pure? This is contradiction. You say that the bone is impure, and you are keeping the bone in the Deity's room?" The conchshell is bone. You know this conchshell is a bone of an animal. So it is being used in the Deity room, and the cow dung is also used in the Deity room. Even Kṛṣṇa is smearing His whole body with cow dung. You know Kṛṣṇa's līlā. So if you say, argue, with your poor knowledge, then it becomes contradiction. One stool is good; another stool is bad. But because it is said by the Vedas, you have to accept it. This is Vedic knowledge. You cannot argue. There is no scope of argument. Whatever is said, you have to accept. Otherwise how Vedas become authority? You can change in your own way.

*So therefore we say that if you want to take benefit by reading Bhagavad*-gītā, then you should accept it as it is said. Don't try to interpret foolishly. Then you will never get the benefit. That is our propaganda. And people are very against us: "No, I am a scholar. I am a philosopher. I can interpret in a way." We say, "No, sir, you cannot do that." This is our propaganda. Veda-praṇihito dharmaḥ.

Thank you very much. (end)



760603SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.37

-

Los Angeles, June 3, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Being thus addressed by the messengers of Yamarāja, the servants of Vāsudeva smiled and spoke the following words in voices as deep as the sound of rumbling clouds."



Prabhupāda:



śri-śuka uvāca

ity ukte yamadūtais te

*vāsudevokta*-kāriṇaḥ

tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ

*megha*-nirhrādayā girā

[SB 6.1.37]



*In this verse the word vāsudevokta*-kāriṇaḥ... Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, vāsudeva-ukta, ukta means what is said by Vāsudeva. Ukta means what is spoken by Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevokta-kāriṇaḥ: they'll do that, that's all. This is devotee. There is no difficulty to become devotee. At once you can become a devotee, within a second. They ask something, sometimes, that "How long it will take to become a devotee?" It will take one second. How? Vāsudevokta-kāriṇaḥ. You simply accept that whatever Vāsudeva says, you'll do, that's all. Vāsudeva says so many things. Vāsudeva says to Arjuna that "You fight." So if you accept, "Yes, I'll fight," then you become devotee. But Arjuna denied, "No, Kṛṣṇa, I'll not fight." That is our disease. Our whole disease is that as soon as we agree to accept the words of Kṛṣṇa, we are liberated, immediately. We are immediately in the Vaikuṇṭha. As as soon we deny, immediately within māyā.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīve bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



Two things are there. If you deny to keep yourself in the light, then go to the darkness. And if you deny to keep yourself in the darkness, then go to the light. Two things are side by side. If you agree to act according to Vāsudeva's instruction, His order, then you are immediately liberated person. And if you do not, then you are immediately under illusion, māyā.



*So this is wanted. Liberation But it is very difficult to accept the position that "I shall do whatever Vāsudeva says." Immediately our life becomes very clear and happy. Not only happy in this life, but also next life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. If we accept simply to obey the words of Vāsudeva ... It is so simple, but we are so unfortunate that we do not accept. Especially in this age, mandāḥ sumanda matayo manda*-bhāgyāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. In this age, people in general, they're all bad, mandaḥ. Mandaḥ means bad, nobody's good. Because everyone is in ignorance, the modes of ignorance, that is bad. Or little upwards, in the modes of passion. Rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ [SB 1.2.19]. And the best part, best platform in this material world, is goodness, sattva-guṇa. Raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa... There are three modes of material nature-goodness, passion and ignorance. Those who are in ignorance, they are animals, animals platform. Those who are in passion, karmī platform. And those who are in goodness, they're jñānī platform. But our aim is to transcend even the jñānī platform. Not to remain in the platform of ignorance, not to remain in the platform of passion, and not to remain even in the platform of goodness. That is transcendental. That is transcendental. Just like gopīs are going to Kṛṣṇa at dead of night, at midnight. And how they're going? Kṛṣṇa is playing the flute, and gopīs are running, giving up all their engagement in the family. Somebody was lying with her husband, somebody was engaged in the kitchen, somebody was taking care of the children, so on, so on. But they left everything and went to Kṛṣṇa. This is transcendental. When we go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, giving up everything, that is transcendental platform. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].

*So this word is a very important word, vāsudevokta*-kāriṇaḥ. A devotee has nothing to do anything more except to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. That is transcendental platform. They do not know what is transcendental plat... Transcendental meditation means to think of Kṛṣṇa always. That is transcendental meditation. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*Who is the first*-class yogi? Kṛṣṇa says, "That person who is always thinking of Me Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. There are many varieties of yogis, but this person, who is thinking of Me, he has no more to think any other thing." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā: within the core of the heart, he's thinking of Kṛṣṇa. This is the ideal transcendental meditation, meditation. It has become a medicine now. (laughter) To become fatty, to have more power for sex, it is not meditation, but medicine. So this is wanted. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. That is the supermost, topmost position of yogi. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. In this material world the jñāna-bhūmika, or the modes of goodness, that is very estimated. So, transcending that position also. Karma is lower position, karmīs... (aside:) That child is disturbing. Hm. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Simply remain prepared how to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena. "Kṛṣṇa says this; *now I must do it." That is vāsudevokta*-kāriṇaḥ. Ukta means whatever He says.



*So the Kṛṣṇa conscious life is not very difficult. It is very easy. In one second, if he agrees: "Yes, Kṛṣṇa, whatever You say, I shall do..." That Arjuna did at last, after hearing the whole Bhagavad*-gītā. When Kṛṣṇa asked, inquired from him, "Now, what is your decision...?" Kṛṣṇa never interferes with your decision. You have got little independence. Kṛṣṇa has given you. But if you use your independence, do not like to obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, that is your business. You can do that. Kṛṣṇa will not interfere with you. But Kṛṣṇa says that "If you want actual happiness, liberation, then follow what I say." That is Kṛṣṇa's request. As we are subordinate, Kṛṣṇa can order that "You must do it." That Kṛṣṇa does not say, never. Kuru. He says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], "You do it." He doesn't say "You must." That is your option. You can deny it. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa is instructing everything perfectly, but why people are not doing? That is his discretion. That Kṛṣṇa gives always. After teaching Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, He asked Arjuna: "Now, Arjuna, I have spoken to you everything. Now it is up to you to do it or not to do it." Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Yathā-icchasi: "Whatever you like, you do." He doesn't force, but Arjuna, that is, means knowledge, Arjuna said naṣṭo mohaḥ: "My illusion is now over." Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: "Now I am remembering, I am memorizing my position," tvat-prasādād, "by Your grace." So kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]: "Now I shall act as You desire." This is perfection of life. Whenever we decide that "Now we shall act as Kṛṣṇa says," then our life is perfect. Vāsudeva-uktaḥ kāriṇaḥ.

*They were smiling. When the Yamadūtas challenged them that "Who are you? You look like very nice, coming from some very, very nice place. You are very well dressed, and you are all young men and nicely dressed, everything Oh, why you are interfering with our business?" So, they were smiling. They were smiling because they knew their business. They knew their business, they have come to rescue Ajāmila by the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So they know their position, that "We have come from the supreme controller. You cannot do any more this things. That is your foolishness." They were smiling that "What these foolish persons are asking us question?" Our position is like that. Anyone who is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you may protest against Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we shall smile, that's all. (laughter) We know our duty. Yes. We shall simply smile, that "What these nonsense speaking?" We shall go on, forward, because we are carrying the order of Kṛṣṇa. We shall be protected in every respect. Nobody can supersede our order. This is our position. So they were smiling that "What these nonsense are speaking?" Yes. So tān pratyūcuḥ prahasya idaṁ megha*-nirhrādayā. Just like cloud. Cloud means sounds, everything stops. Megha-nirhrādayā. So the point is that those who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if they are strictly following vāsudevoktaḥ, whatever Vāsudeva has said or the Vāsudeva's representative has said, if he's simply prepared to carry out the orders, then his position is very secure. His position is very secure.

*So we are Kṛṣṇa conscious men or we are known as Hare Kṛṣṇa men. Anyway... So we are not manufacturing something imaginary. That is not our position. Vāsudevoktaḥ. We are simply excecuting what Vāsudeva has spoken, that's all. So our task is very easy, because we haven't got to manufacture, tax our brain, to create something nonsense. No. Our position is very clear. Kṛṣṇa has said man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is Kṛṣṇa's words. So many things, these are important things. Kṛṣṇa says that "Always think of Me." So we are saying the same thing. "My dear friend, my dear student, my dear son, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then you'll think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā. And, who will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Mad-bhakto. Unless one agrees to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, why he'll chant? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "You worship Me." So we have created this temple. Come on, worship Kṛṣṇa. And māṁ namaskuru*-and whoever comes to the temple, he offers obeisances. We teach how to offer obeisances as soon as we enter. That is our business. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. Either you are learned or a fool or rich or poor or black or white or American or Indian, Hindu, Muslim, never mind-take this lesson, you become perfect. So human society should take advantage of this movement and do these four things only-man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Then what is the... Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ: [Bg. 18.65] "I guarantee you come back to home, back to Godhead, by this process."

Thank you very much. (end)



760604SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.38

-

Los Angeles, June 4, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "The blessed messengers of Lord Viṣṇu, the Viṣṇudūtas, said: If you are actually servants of Yamarāja, you must explain to us the meaning of religious principles and the symptoms of irreligion."



Prabhupāda:



śrī viṣṇudūtā ūcuḥ

*yūyaṁ vai dharma*-rājasya

*yadi nirdeśa*-kāriṇaḥ

brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ

yac cādharmasya lakṣaṇam

[SB 6.1.38]



They challenged, the Yamadūtas challenged: "Who are you, interfering in our business? We have come to arrest him." So, before talking, the, the counterchallenge was that "You spoke that 'We are servants of Dharmarāja. So it is his jurisdiction... This person is impious. So this is the jurisdiction of Dharmarāja. He has to try the case and give him punishment, criminal department, law and order. So, you cannot interfere with us.' " Therefore the challenge is replied by Viṣṇudūtas that "If you are actually representative of Dharmarāja, who tries the case of dharma and adharma, first of all explain what is dharma and what is adharma."



This is very nice challenge. Suppose if somebody, if you say that "We are Kṛṣṇa conscious persons." So one may challenge you, "First of all, explain what do you know about Kṛṣṇa?" That is quite natural. If you do not know about Kṛṣṇa, you have no right to say that "I belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement." You have not right to say. So your position is like that, simply if you have a tilaka and a kaṇṭhi, that does not mean that you belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Any cheater can do that. You must know the philosophy. If one challenges, you must reply. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung a song indicating these cheaters. He says, ei oto ek kalir cela(?). "Here is a servant of Kali." What kind of cela? Na te tilal golai mālā (?). "He has got a tilaka and golai mālā, bās, that's all." He does not know what is the philosophy. If you do not know the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you simply mark your body with tilaka and kaṇṭhi, then you are not proper servant, you are not qualified. So tilaka, mala, is necessary. Just like a policeman. A bogus man, if he dresses like a policeman, he is not a policeman. He must know what is the police law, criminal law, who is to be punished, who is not to be punished, what is criminality, what is innocence. All these things he must know.

*So here is a very good challenge, that "You are talking that you are the servant of Dharmarāja. I know Dharmarāja." It is not that... Because they must know. They are coming from Lord Viṣṇu, and they know that everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa, āra saba bhṛtya, yaiche nācāya, se taiche kare nṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142], in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. The master is one, Kṛṣṇa or God. There cannot be two masters. That is not possible. Or two Gods. You cannot say, "In our faith, God is like this." That is nonsense. God is one. You cannot say, "In our country, gold is like this." No. Gold is everywhere the same. Either in your country or my country, it doesn't matter. Gold is gold everywhere. You cannot say "Christian gold," "Muslim gold," and "Hindu gold." No. Similarly, you cannot say "Hindu God," "Muslim God," "Christian God." No. God is one. Otherwise, there is no God. The definition of God is eka brahma dvitiya nāsti. There cannot be any competitor of God. Just like nowadays so many rascals are coming, presenting, "I am God." What kind of God you are? You must check before accepting one rascal as God, what is God.

*The description of God is there in the śāstra: yasyaika*-niśvasita kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. That is God. By His breathing, millions of universes are coming with exhaling. And when He's inhaling, billions of universes are going within. Can you show like that? That is also not original God. That is plenary expansion of God. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣa [Bs. 5.48]. This transaction is going on in the body of Maha-Viṣṇu. The material world is being created and annihilated. When there is exhaling, the universes are coming into existence; *when there is inhaling, it is all finished. This material world is like that. It is not permanent. Everyone got such experience. Your body, it has a beginning at a certain date from your father and mother. It stays for some time, it develops, it gives some by-products, then it becomes old and you finish. This is material body. Everybody knows it. Similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation, what you are seeing, so big things*-it may be very big thing, but the process is the same. Either you take the body of an ant or you take the body of Brahmājī or... The process, the same rules and regulations. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. There is no change. So that is God. God is producing by His exhaling, inhaling, so many universes. Why should you take such a cheap God? As soon as the God has got some toothache, he goes to the dentist. And he's God! Don't take such cheap Gods. We don't take them. At least, we Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. Just to accept Kṛṣṇa as God...

*Arjuna, he knew that Kṛṣṇa is God. Therefore he requested Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, can You show me Your form how You are universally working?" And He showed His universal form, how it is working, that is described in the Eleventh Chapter of the Bhagavad*-gītā. Why? Arjuna knew from the very beginning that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord; *I am His servant." But either by Kṛṣṇa's yoga*-māyā or Arjuna's humility, he played that "My family is more important than Your service." He played like that. At last, he agreed that kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. So, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, they're teaching us by playing, because Kṛṣṇa can play with His devotee, not with others. Most confidential devotee. What He wants to teach. So Arjuna presented himself as ordinary human being. He's not ordinary human being; *he's personal friend of Kṛṣṇa. He cannot be bewildered, but he played the part of ordinary being, that "I have got attachment with my family. Why shall I kill them by Your order, and what is this, what is that?" so many, you know. Bhagavad*-gītā, there are questions and answers. And at last, Kṛṣṇa said that "Give up this foolishness. Surrender unto Me." So he agreed, Arjuna. That is perfection. That is perfection.

So here the same thing. Kṛṣṇa said... Kṛṣṇa described what is the meaning of dharma. Here the question is that "If you are servant of Dharmarāja, then explain what is dharma and adharma." Dharma means religiosity, and adharma means nonreligiosity. What is adharma? Everything is... Because this world is duality. If there is black, there is white. If there is good, there is bad. If there is father, there is son. Otherwise, there is no meaning of son, eh, father. "I am father, bachelor daddy." No. If you are father, you must have a son. If you are a son, then you must have a father. If the son says, "I dropped from the sky," how it is possible? These rascals say it that there is no creator. How is that there is no creator? First of all, prove that you have no creator. Your father has created. How you can say there is no creator? Silent. The rascal is silent. You are talking of "There is no creator," but you, yourself, you were created by your father. So these rascals are talking foolishly and other foolish persons are accepting them. But we are not so intelligent. Our answer is that "You say there is no creator. How you are created?" It may be we are rascals also, but this is our simple questions.

This morning I was asking that why there is Sunday first and Monday second? Who can answer? Is there anyone in this meeting who can answer my, this simple question? Why, all over the world, the, everyone accepts Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Sambar, Mangalbar, Bhurbar, the same thing? There may be different language. And Saturday is last. Why this arrangement? Who can answer? Is there anyone? I've asked this simple question to so many. Even Svarūpa Dāmodara, our doctor Ph.D., he has not yet answered. And I've asked this question to Dr. Wolfe also. He's not present here?

Devotee: "Someone has an answer."



Prabhupāda: You have got answer?



*Caitanya*-siṁha: Because Sunday is God's day. Sunday is Kṛṣṇa's day.



Prabhupāda: That is your sentiment. Speak scientifically. Nowadays, the scientific days, you have to speak scientifically.



Devotee: The order of the planets.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the answer. Anyway, he has got the right to ask that "You are representing Dharmarāja. First of all, explain what is dharma. Then we shall understand that you are representative or order*-carrier or servant of Dharmarāja." That will be explained.



*So here, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, we also can understand what is dharma. This is the question and answers between Yamadūtas. But if you are serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, we can understand what is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, abhyutthānam adharmasya [Bg. 4.7]. Just like this world is duality. If you are sick, that means you are not healthy. And if you are healthy, then you are not sick. Duality. There are two things, sickness and health. So if you are really religious, you are not religious(?). Nonreligious; *not nonreligious. Two negatives make one positive. So two things are there. Religiosity and nonreligiosity. So duality. So Kṛṣṇa says two things that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. When there are discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principles... So there is religion. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir [Bg. 4.7]. Glānir means discrepancies. When there is discrepancies of religious principles and abhyutthānam adharmasya, and the society is prominent in doing sinful activities, abhyutthānam... If you are not religious, then you must be irreligious. Two things are there. If there is no light, it is darkness. If it is not darkness, it is light. Similarly, two things cannot go. Either you are a demon or you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, godly. This is the conclusion. Dvau bhūta*-sargau loke ('smin) daiva āsura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. There are two kinds of men in this world. Not only in this world, throughout the whole universe. Two kinds. No third. What is that? Daiva āsura eva ca. One is godly, another is demon. So what is the difference? Viṣṇu bhakto bhaved daiva. Those who are devotees of the Supreme Lord, they are called demigods, or godly. Āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. And those who are opposite number, they are demons.

*So we have got two tests. One test is sufficient. If one is not devotee, if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a demon, has finished our conclusion. We simply ask whether you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, whether you know Kṛṣṇa. If he says, "No, I don't know..." I think our Śyāmasundara's daughter is... She used to preach. She used to go to any elderly person when she was four years old. "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" she said. So he says, "No, I don't know." "Oh, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is preaching. Finish, preaching. A child can preach. A child can understand, "Do you know God?" "No." "You are a demon." (laughter) Finished. Where is the difficulty? As soon as you say "I do not know God," you are a demon. Bās. First*-class demon. "I am scientist." "You are rascal." "No, I have studied, I have got my degrees." "Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. (laughter) Rascal, you have studied so long, simply waste of time. Your real knowledge is taken away because you do not know God." That is described. We have got very simple test in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement how to distinguish between an intelligent man a rascal. As soon as we understand that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. Bās. There is no need of testing. Even though he's M.A., Ph.D, D.H.C. and so on, so on, still we shall call him a rascal. This is open challenge; *it is not secret. How? Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said, tyaja durjana*-saṁsargaṁ vidyayā 'pi alaṅkṛto san. He very nicely says that rascals and fools, must give up their company. Tyaja durjana-saṁsargam. "No, I have got many friends, they are university educated." But he says, vidyayālaṅkṛto 'pi san. Even they are with degrees of M.A. Ph.D., tyaja durjana saṁsargaṁ vidyayālaṅkṛto 'pi san. Even he is educated, so-called educated, he's not educated. Anyone who does not know God, he's not educated, he's a rascal. This is our conclusion. Not our conclusions, this is śāstra's conclusion. So "He has got so many degrees and he's rascal and he's durjana, a bad man?" "Yes." "Why?" Now maṇinā bhuṣitaḥ sarpaḥ kim asau na bhayāṅkaraḥ. Suppose a serpent, he has got a gem on his head. Is it not fearful? Very good example. Suppose a snake comes here and he, it has a jewel on the head. So you'll be all safe? (laughter) No. He's dangerous.

*So that is going on. So*-called educated scientist, degrees, what they're doing? Atom bomb, kill men. This is their scientific discovery: that you can kill a man with a knife, one man or two men; now we have got scientific discovery, millions of men in a moment. Come on, discovery. So why don't you discover something that millions of hospitals, diseased men can be brought into life again? That we cannot do. Kill, killing, killing is going on. What you have discovered? So this is their scientific... Discover something and declare that there is no more death. Here is medicine. Then that is scientific discovery. What is this nonsense? People are dying, and you have discovered something to facilitate death? Is that discovery? Therefore they are this snake with jewel. That's all. They're not gentlemen even. A gentlemen thinks that "I shall kill so many persons by dropping one atom bomb. I have discovered such nonsense thing"? And they are going on as scientist. So be careful. They are like snakes with jewel on the head. That's all. So they do not know.

*So here we must know what is dharma and what is adharma. Simply rubberstamp, "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this...," like the tilaka and mālā. No. You must know the science. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, ye kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya. Any person who knows about Kṛṣṇa perfectly well, he is guru. That's all. He is guru. So we have to learn this science, what is dharma, what is religion, what is irreligion, what is God. That is human life. Simply talking all nonsense, "There is no God and there is no creation," don't waste your time. Don't waste your time. The human life is very, very valuable. This is the time. In cat's and dog's life... We cannot invite the cats and dogs in this temple and take this lesson on Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā. We invite human beings. We invite human beings because there is chance. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. A human being can understand what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God. And if we act according to that, our life is successful. Simply denying God and manufacturing atom bomb and killing, is that civilization? No.

Thank you very much. (end)



750720SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.39

-

San Francisco, July 20, 1975



Nitāi: What is the process of punishing others? Who are the actual candidates for punishment? Are all karmīs engaged in fruitive activities punishable, or only some of them?



Prabhupāda:



kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ

kiṁ vāsya sthānam īpsitam

daṇḍyāḥ kiṁ kāriṇaḥ sarve

āho svit katicin nṛṇām

[SB 6.1.39]



*So first question was, brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṇam. When there is some vicāra, judgment, it must be done very nicely. A criminal is judged before the magistrate. He is taken just to make proper judgment, "Whether this man is punishable? He committed some criminal activities." The circumstances, the condition of the mind-everything should be judged. This is called judgment. So who is punishable? Deśa-kāla-pātra. There is consideration, deśa-kāla-pātra. Deśa means situation, and kāla, time, and pātra, and the subject. Just like a child, he takes one fruit here. So he is not punishable. According to Vedic system, a child, a woman, a brāhmaṇa, a cow and a saintly person, they are not punishable. Cow, woman, saintly person, brāhmaṇa and child*-they are beyond all laws. Even they commit some... They do not do. They have no criminal purpose. Formerly the women were trained up in such a way, very chaste and obedient. So they had no chance to commit any offense. And brāhmaṇas, they are also trained up. Śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucam... (children making noise)



Sudāmā: Take the children out.



Bahulāśva: All the children should go out.



*Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. (some devotees say "Jaya!" and applaud) So, children are not punishable. (laughter, more applause) Neither the women. (more applause, laughter) Hm. But don't take advantage. (laughter) And here we have got these brāhmaṇas, saintly persons, women and children. So who is to be punished? (laughter) Yes. Kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ. So the judge must know who is to be punished. That is judgment. Kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ sthānam. Deśa*-kāla-pātra: according to time, according to circumstances, according to the subject, everything scrutinizingly judged, not whimsically. Nowadays it is the time for emergency. Anyone can be punished without any judgment. But this is not good position.



*Then daṇḍyāḥ kiṁ kāriṇaḥ sarve. Kāriṇaḥ means fruitive actors, those who are working for getting some profit. So sometimes with getting profit we make some undesirable activities which is called black market. So that is punishable. There are system... Of course, I cannot quote from where, but it is the system that a merchant, highest profit he can take for exchanging*-not more than twenty-five percent. That is the highest. If one merchant takes more than twenty-five percent profit, then he is punishable. This was the system. So the kāriṇaḥ... So we are all workers. So somebody is working for his personal profit, and somebody is working for the profit of Kṛṣṇa. It appears almost similar. A ordinary man is selling some newspaper, and our man selling the magazine. It looks the similar thing, but it is not similar; it is different. Therefore, if a newspaper seller creates some disturbance on the street, the police can punish, but when one is selling Back to Godhead, he is not punishable. (laughter) This is the difference. But nowadays these rascals, they do not know whom to punish, whom not to punish. They take, "All right, you are selling Back to Godhead. You must come police custody." So our are not punishable although doing the same thing. This is judgment.

Then the animals, they are also working hard day and night for their necessities of life. But if an animal steals something from your house or takes some eatables, he is not punishable. India you will find in the bazaars. There is crowd, and the cows enter there, and they eat the vegetables to their heart's content. But he is not punishable. Still the cow is not punishable. But if a man takes one potato without the permission, he is punishable. So the animals are not punishable. All the lawbooks are meant for the men, for the human being, not for the animals. Just like in your country the police law is: "Keep to the right your car." But if a animal goes, keep to the left, it is not punishable. So everyone not punishable. Then again, human being, all of them, not punishable. Those who are criminals, those who have violated laws, they are punishable. So therefore this question is "Whether and how they are punishable? What is dharma, and what is adharma? So if you are representative of Yamarāja, then you explain to us first of all whether you are actually representative."

*So the Yamadūta, they are also servant of very exalted personality, one of the authority. So they are not lacking in knowledge by the grace of their master. So the first thing they said, veda*-praṇihito dharmo hy adharmas tad-viparyayaḥ. Dharma and adharma, religious principle and not religious principle, nonreligious principle-how to discern. The book is there, Veda. We have to consult the Vedas. There are so many Vedic literatures: four Vedas, then Upaniṣad, 108 Upaniṣad, then philosophy, Vedānta-sūtra, all summarized. Then explanation of Vedānta-sūtra, or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. Then there is Rāmāyaṇa, there is Mahābhārata, immense literature, full of Vedic literature. So one should try to understand this literature. They are meant for the human being. Veda-praṇihito dharmaḥ. If one wants to be religious... Religious means that is the beginning of human life. If one is not religious, then he is animal. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. So in order to make a person perfectly religious, there are so many Vedic literatures. So who is taking care of it? Nobody is taking care of. Therefore, at the present moment, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Śūdra means equal to the animal. Tulasī dāsa has classified, dhol guṇar śūdra paśu nārī, ihe sab sasan ke adhikārī.(?) So women will be sorry, but he has classified in that way. Anyway... So nobody is taking care of the Vedic literature. Therefore they do not know what is right, what is wrong. Dharma, dharma means right and wrong.

*But Bhagavad*-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literature. Sarva-gavopanisadam.(?) It is the essence of all Vedic literature. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says... What is the purpose of Vedas? You may be very learned scholar in Vedas, then what you have learned, Vedānta? Vedānta means the last knowledge of Vedas. So Vedānta is, Kṛṣṇa is explaining in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedānta-kṛd vedānta-vid eva cāham.

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo

*vedānta*-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham

[Bg. 15.15]



*So the summary is there. Kṛṣṇa is sitting, sarvasya ca aham, hṛdi, within the heart, sanniviṣṭaḥ, "I am seated there." Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg. 18.61]. And He is giving intelligence and forgetfulness. Why one is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa, and why one is conscious of Kṛṣṇa? That is also due to Kṛṣṇa. One who has tried to forget Kṛṣṇa-then Kṛṣṇa is giving him opportunity to forget Kṛṣṇa. One who is trying to know Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is giving intelligence to know Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. Kṛṣṇa is there. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how to know Him. If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, then He will give you, mislead you in such a way that you will forever forget Kṛṣṇa. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ [Bg. 15.15].



*That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andha-yoniṣu [Bg. 16.19]. Those who are asuras, demons, trying to defy the existence of God, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is putting him in such circumstances, in such family, in such society, in such community, in such country, that he will have no opportunity to know Kṛṣṇa. Tān ahaṁ dviṣa... Because he is envious of Kṛṣṇa, wants to forget Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa is putting him in such circumstances. And one who is little eager to know Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence.

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*Everything is said there. Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānām. Anyone who is twenty-four hours engaged in... How he is engaged? Bhajatām, simply for bhajana. Bhajana means worshiping, "How to worship Kṛṣṇa?" Satata-yuktānām, and twenty-four hours anxious, "How to serve Kṛṣṇa? How to serve Kṛṣṇa?" To become mad after Kṛṣṇa, such person... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me: "I see everything vacant being separated from Govinda." This is called love. So, of course, it is not possible to come to that position like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is mahā-bhāva, mahā-bhāva. It is not for any human being to come to that stage. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has shown how to become mad after Kṛṣṇa by His life when He was in Jagannātha Purī, Caitanya. At night He would go out and fall down on the sea or somewhere. Nobody knows. The door was closed, and still, He would get out and go, and, "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Then His assistants, secretaries, would go out and find out Him. So for eighteen years He was in that way in Jagannātha Purī. That is called mahā-bhāva.



*So it is not possible for human being. But at least, not mahā*-bhāva but bhāva, that we can... Bhāva. Tato bhāvaḥ. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. One can increase gradually to the stage of bhāva. This bhāva stage, that separation... Just like the Gosvāmīs, when they were in Vṛndāvana, they were feeling this bhāva. He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ. And they were simply searching after in the Vṛndāvana forest. He rādhe, "Rādhārāṇī," vraja-devīke, "all the gopīs," he rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno: "O the son of Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa." Kutaḥ, "Where you are all?" This is bhāva. "Where you are all?" Śrī-govardhana-kalpa-pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ: "Where you are? Are you near the Govardhana Hill or some forest on the bank of the Yamunā? Please let me know." Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. In this way they were searching after Kṛṣṇa, "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" and crying, ghoṣantāv iti mahā-vihvalau, just like madmen. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the highest perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when one will be mad after Kṛṣṇa, "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu also showed us that way. The Gosvāmīs also showed us that way.

*Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that we must follow the Gosvāmīs and their servant. Ei chay gosāi jāṅr*-tāṅr mui dās: "I am not going to be a servant of anyone. But a person who has taken the six Gosvāmīs as his master, I become his servant." Ei chay gosāi jāṅr-tāṅr mui dās. "Why I shall become anyone's dāsa? But if somebody is the servant of the Gosvāmīs, then I become his servant." Ei chay gosāi jāṅr-tāṅr mui dās, tāṅ-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās: "Their dust of lotus feet, that is my food." This is... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says. Ei chay gosāi jabe braje koilā bās, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-nitya-līlā korilā prakāś. What is the business of Gosvāmīs? From Vṛndāvana they tried to broadcast the pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā. Ei chay gosāi jabe braje koilā bās. So we should follow that principle, that we should not be packed up. Sometimes we find in Vṛndāvana they say, "No, no, I have taken vow. I am not going out of Vṛndāvana." Of course, the Gosvāmīs did not get out of Vṛndāvana, but they preached. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. They were always engaged in writing books, nānā-śāstra, various śāstra, scripture always studying, and taking essence of the śāstra and presenting to the world people. Why? Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau: just to establish real religious principle, nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau, with scrutinizing thinking over and giving to the people. This is Gosvāmīs' business. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Why? Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: for the benefit of the whole human society. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau mānyau śaraṇyākarau. Therefore one should take shelter of the Gosvāmīs. That is Gosvāmī.

*So here, veda*-praṇihita, the Veda. The Vedic literature, that is dharma, no manufacturing. Nowadays it has become a fashion. So Vedas, that is beginning. Millions, nobody can give any description, since when the Vedas are coming down by the paramparā system. But after this Vedic period, so many religious system has come out. Up to five thousand years before, the Vedas were accepted all over the world, Vedic civilization. Then later on, gradually, they, the Christianity has come, the Muhammadanism, Islamism has come, Buddhism come, and now there are so many other, this samāja, that samāja, this religion, this religion, this religion. Because that means people are getting out of the touch of the Vedic civilization. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying again to bring them to this Vedic civilization. Here it is stated, veda-praṇihito dharmaḥ. If you take to the Vedic principles of life, then you become religious. And what is that Vedic principle? Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Vedic principle means to know Me, Kṛṣṇa." Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Veda-praṇihito dharmaḥ. And what is Veda? Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. So... "But there is Vedānta?" Yes. Vedānta-kṛd vedānta-vid aham: "I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I know what is Vedānta." So whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is Vedānta. And other so-called Vedantists, they are nonsense. They do not know what is Vedānta. Here is. Kṛṣṇa says, vedānta-vit: "I know what is Vedānta." "Why You know?" Vedānta-kṛt: "I have compiled Vedānta." In the incarnation of Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva incarnation, Kṛṣṇa-dvaipāyana Vyāsa... Mahā-muni-kṛte. Mahā-muni, the great sage, Vyāsadeva, is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So he has compiled Vedānta-sūtra. Therefore he knows what is Vedānta. And because Vedānta is being misinterpreted by the rascals, therefore Vyāsadeva personally has commented on Vedānta-sūtra by writing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore he begins Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with the first aphorism of Vedānta, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ [SB 1.1.1].

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is Vedic movement, authorized. Veda*-praṇihito dharmaḥ. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he knows what is dharma and what is adharma. He knows who is punishable, who is not punishable. In this way, if you follow the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness... It is in a different way. Not different way; Kṛṣṇa name is there. When I registered this association, many friends requested me that "Why you are, nomenclature, this 'Kṛṣṇa'? Make it 'God consciousness.' " And "No." As soon as I give "God consciousness," all the rascals will bring so many false God. Therefore it must be definitely stated, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So try to follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Then you will be situated in the Vedic civilization, and you will know everything properly. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



760605SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.39

-

Los Angeles, June 5, 1976



Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "What is the process of punishing others? Who are the actual candidates for punishment? Are all karmīs engaged in fruitive activities punishable, or only some of them?"



Prabhupāda:



kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ

kiṁ vāsya sthānam īpsitam

daṇḍyaḥ kiṁ kāriṇaḥ sarve

aho svit katicin nṛṇām

[SB 6.1.39]



*So challenge was replied that "You are representing Dharmarāja. So you have come here to take away this person, and we are prohibiting. So you have challenged us. So first of all explain your position, whether you know what is dharma and what is adharma, who is punishable, under what circumstance one is punished, and one who is punished, where does he go?" Actually, all these descriptions are there in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, different types of hellish life, what kind of sinful activities are punished by what kind of hellish condition. Everything is there. In the Fifth Canto, everything is there. There are different planets where Yamarāja is there, how a dead man or the soul is taken there, the path-everything is in detail there. If you say it is mythology... Why you should say mythology? You have not seen the whole universe, how it is situated. You are simply imagining from this place. So your imagination, imaginology, and we have our mythology. So we have got some evidence, but you have no evidence. At least we have got some support of the books. But what you have got? You are simply imagining, "I think," "I believe." What is this nonsense? What is your proof? Everyone is saying "I believe." Hundreds and thousands... And what is correct? Everyone... At least, we have got something correct. We don't say "I believe." This is not our process of knowledge. We, Kṛṣṇa conscious person, we never say "I believe." No, we immediately quote from the śāstra.



*Here is the statement, śruti*-pramāṇam. According to Vedic civilization, evidence, is śruti, Vedas. If you say something and if you give evidence, proof from the Vedic literature, then it is perfect. No such nonsense things: "I believe," "We believe," "Perhaps," "Maybe." No. Such foolish things are not accepted. Then everyone will say something. There are thousands and millions of people, everyone will imagine something and say something. Then where is the correct thing? This is not good. Veda-pramāṇam. That will be described in the next verse. Veda-praṇihito dharmo. Veda-praṇihito. What is explained in the Veda, that is dharma. You cannot manufacture dharma. If it is mentioned in the Vedas, what is dharma, what is adharma, then it is acceptable. I have several times explained that you cannot make law in your comfortable home. No. Law is made by the government. And you have to accept it. You cannot say that "I believe this will be law." Who will care for your law? You may believe. You believe at your home. That will not be accepted. The law given by the government, "Keep to the right," that you must have. You cannot say, "I believe left thing" or... No. That is not. Similarly, dharmaś ca, it will be explained further.

*So what is dharma, religion? In the dictionary, English dictionary it is explained: "a kind of faith." But we do not take in that way. Faith, you have got different faith, I have got different faith, how it will be dharma? The same example: if you have different faith that you do not accept this government law, that will not do. You may have faith or no faith, but you have to accept. That is dharma. That is dharma. So they very particularly analyzed dharma. Dharma means... I have given translation in many places: "occupational duty." Everyone is fit for a certain occupation. And the duty ascertained for such occupation, that is dharma. Natural. Or, in one word, it can be explained as characteristic. So, just like a chemical, it has got some characteristic in the chemical analytical book, that... Take soda bicarb. The characteristic-it tastes like this, the color is like this, the, like this, so many things. Hmm. (aside:) That child is coughing. So dharma means characteristic. So what is the dharma of the living entity? We are all living entities. What is the dharma? What is the characteristic? Common. Not that because I am Hindu, my characteristic is different from your characteristic. As living being, our characteristic is the same. Either you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian or white or black, never mind. What is that characteristic? That characteristic*-to serve. The inferior must serve to the superior. That's all. This is characteristic. Find out all over the universe, the service.

That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is his real charactertistic. He is eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. This is characteristic. So if you don't serve God, then you have to serve dog. But you have to serve. You see practically. So many godless persons, they have no family, no affection, no position, no home, nothing. But still he keeps a dog to serve. This is the characteristic. Because he has nothing to serve, he has no wife, no children, no (indistinct), nothing, so he must have somebody, keep a dog. Just see practically. He cannot avoid service. That is your characteristic. If you don't serve God, then you have to serve dog. Now make your choice, whether you shall spoil your life by serving dog and become next life a dog, or by serving God, you, next life you become a god. Make your choice. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you want to become a dog next life, that is must. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. At the time of death, if you are affectionate to the dog, naturally you'll think of dog, and your soul will be transferred in the womb of a dog. This is nature's way. And, similarly, if you practice to love God in this life, at the time of death, naturally you'll think of God. Then next life, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. It is explained in the... Tyaktvā deham, everyone has to give up this body, but if, at the time of quitting this body, you think of Kṛṣṇa, immediately you go back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is opportunity. If you ask, of course, anyone who is desirous of going back to home, back to Godhead, he knows everything about Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, why he should be eager?

So, Kṛṣṇa is always joyful. Kṛṣṇa is always joyful. Just like see before you. Kṛṣṇa is joyfully accepting to be bound up by His mother. He is Supreme Lord; *nobody can chastise Him, but He is taking pleasure: "How My mother chastises Me." This is also another pleasure. Just like a very rich man, he always eats very nice foodstuff. So sometimes he wants, "Can you give me little puffed rice?" Puffed rice is not very valuable food, but he likes. This is change of variety of enjoyment. So everyone worships God: "My Lord, my Lord, my Lord." So therefore God sometimes wants that "Who will chastise Me?" He selects one of His devotees, first*-class devotees: "You become My father, you become My mother, and you chastise Me." This is God's pleasure. Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. Then that is God. Ānanda, that is ānanda. Here, mother Yaśodā is going to bind Kṛṣṇa. It is not His displeasure; He is not unhappy. He is feeling happy. That is Kṛṣṇa. So in this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly. And if you simply understand thoroughly Kṛṣṇa, you are liberated. You are liberated. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. One may question that... They may neglect that "If Kṛṣṇa is God, why mother Yaśodā is binding Him?" But he does not know that is a pleasure. That is a pleasure. There are many instances. I'll cite one instance that there was a big prime minister in England, Gladstone. Perhaps you have heard the name. Queen Victoria's prime minister. So somebody came to see him, and the servant informed him that "The prime minister is little busy. You wait." So he was waiting. One hour passed, and still no message. Then he opened the door. He wanted to see what the prime minister is doing. He saw that the prime minister has become a horse, and his grandchildren driving him. That is enjoyment. He is the prime minister but he has become a horse of his grandchild. (laughter).

So this is the position. There are different types of position. When there is battlefield, Kṛṣṇa said that "I'll not fight. Arjuna, although I shall be on your side, but don't expect that I shall fight. Because it is between your brothers, both of you are My relatives, I will not fight." So Arjuna accepted, "Yes, You don't fight. So You, any way You like, You can help me." So He said, "All right, I shall become your chariot, I shall drive your chariot." So "That's all right; whatever You like." This was the agreement. So Duryodhana complained to Bhīṣmadeva that "Arjuna is your pet grandchild. You are not fighting wholeheartedly." So he began to criticize him. He was also grandchild. So when Bhīṣmadeva saw that "Duryodhana is thinking that I am inclined to Arjuna, I am not fighting properly," so he said: "All right, tomorrow I shall finish Arjuna. Tomorrow I shall fight in such a way, either Arjuna has to die, or his friend who has promised not to fight, He has to fight. Otherwise there is no escape of Arjuna." So Duryodhana became very satisfied. And Bhīṣma was a great hero. He was not ordinary hero. He fought in such a way that Arjuna's chariot became broken and he became fainted and so on, so on. Then Kṛṣṇa saw that "My friend is going to die." So He became very angry. And He was coming with the chariot wheel to kill Bhīṣmadeva, and Bhīṣmadeva was piercing His body with arrows like anything. So Kṛṣṇa was feeling very satisfaction, because Bhīṣma is also great devotee. So when Kṛṣṇa came before Bhīṣmadeva, that "Now I shall kill you, you are doing too much," so he immediately left, means "That was my promise, that either You have to fight or Your friend will be killed."

So these are the transactions between devotee and God. Generally, people cannot understand. But if one understands, he becomes liberated. If some way or other... It is not very difficult; *simply we have to associate with devotees and discuss this literature. Then we'll understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. And Kṛṣṇa is explaining in the Bhagavad*-gītā about Himself. In the Seventh Chapter Kṛṣṇa says,

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*Kṛṣṇa is offering that samagram, sama, "In fullness, completely, as you can understand Me, I am speaking to you." Asaṁśayam*-without any doubt. Doubt there may be. Because God is great, we are very small; *how we can understand God? There is always some doubt, whether He's personal, impersonal, all*-pervading. There are so many different conception of God. But therefore God Himself says asaṁśayam, "without any doubt." And samagram, "completely." Asaṁśayam samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1]. Just like to study a subject matter, it takes some time, takes little endeavor to associate with person who knows the thing rightly. In this way we can understand God also. Just like we understand so many science, so many arts, by patience. Then that is Rūpa Gosvāmī's advice: niścayād dhairyāt. Dhairyāt means patience. We have to learn patiently. Niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt sato vṛtteḥ saṅga-tyāgāt ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati.



*So, if we follow the instruction, tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt, as it is prescribed in the śāstras, as it instructed by the spiritual master... We have to learn everything through the spiritual master. You cannot understand directly. That is not possible. Just like if you purchase one medical book and read at home you cannot become doctor, medical man. You have to go through the medical college and professor. Similarly, the śāstra says, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you want to learn that transcendental science, you must go through the bona fide guru. And Kṛṣṇa also says in the... This is Vedic injunction. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*One has to approach a person who has seen God. Tattva*-darśinaḥ. How God can be seen? Tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva-darśinaḥ means one who knows the truth. Truth means how to see. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣa: by the eyes of knowledge. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣa. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Not that if somebody challenges that "Have you seen God?" "Yes, I have seen." "How?" "Through śāstra, through śāstra." God reveals. You cannot see, even God comes before you... Just like Kṛṣṇa was present... Here is God before you. But you cannot understand. Unless we are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we'll think, "What is this, a statue of stone? He is God?" Yes, He is God. Otherwise, why we are spending so much money, wasting time? No, here is God. But how you can see God? Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. You have to make the eyes to see God. Otherwise, God is everywhere. So they may ask that "If God is everywhere, why you are worshiping an idol?" He's not idol, He is God, but he is seeing idol. Unless he has developed love for God, he cannot see. But it is, God is there. But because our eyes cannot see the spirit, at the present moment, our dull material eyes... Just like you are spirit soul, I am spirit soul, your father is spirit soul, your mother is spirit soul-but are you seeing the spirit soul? When the spirit soul goes away, you're crying, "My father is gone, my father is gone." Why father is gone? He's lying on the bed. You have seen the coat, pants, hands, legs, that is there. Why you say gone? "No, he's gone." So we cannot see the spirit soul even of our father and mother; how can you see God, the Supreme Spirit? Therefore God comes before you just like stone, which you can see. It is to favor you. God is everything. So, in this way, we have to understand God, Kṛṣṇa. And if anyone understands, then he becomes immediately fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9].



*So therefore we require good association. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā tataḥ rucis tato bhāvas sadhakānām ayaṁ premnaḥ prādurbhāve... [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. You cannot develop love of Godhead in one second. You can, provided you are so sincere and God is very much pleased upon you. He can give you. He can give you immediately. That is possible. But that may be some rare cases. Ordinarily, this is the process. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo. Just like we have come here in this temple. You have got some faith, all of us. That is called śraddhā, ādau śraddhā. There are many hundred thousand in this quarter. Why they are not coming? This is the beginning. You have got some faith, śraddhā. You have come. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo. And if you continue... What we are doing? We are making the association to take lessons from these Vedic literatures. This is called sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. In the drinking shop we make one kind of association, in the restaurant we make one association, in the club we make some association, different places. So here is a place, here is also association. It is called sādhu-saṅga, association with devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. And if one is mature, then he wants to execute devotional service, bhajana-kriyā. And as soon as there is bhajana-kriyā, the unnecessary nonsense things will disappear. No more illicit sex, no more intoxication, no more drinking, no more gambling. Finished. When anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, all these rascal habits are gone, then niṣṭhā, then firm faith, not to be agitated. Tato niṣṭhā tataḥ rucis. Then taste. You cannot live outside this camp. Taste has changed. Tato niṣṭhā tataḥ rucis, tathāśaktis, then attraction. Then bhāva. Bhāva means ecstasy: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." Then there is love. There are different stage.

So this... Real religion is love, how to love God. That is real religion Dharma, what is that? Yato bhaktir... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo [SB 1.2.6]. There are different kinds of dharma, or religious system. But real religious system means how we have learned to love God. That's all. Nothing more. No ritualistic ceremony, no formula, nothing. If your heart is always crying for God, that is perfect religion. That is perfect religion. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam: "Oh, without Kṛṣṇa, I am feeling the whole world is vacant." Vacant, yes. So we have to come to that stage. Of course, it is not possible for all of us, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed us how to become highest religious person. That is to feel always, "Oh, without Kṛṣṇa, everything is vacant." Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda viraheṇa me. That is dharma, that is dharma. So the Viṣṇudūta is testing these Yamadūtas, whether he understands what is the meaning of dharma. Dharma, we cannot create. Dharma is neither Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma, this dharma, that dharma. They may be some sectarian understanding, but real dharma means how we have learned to love God.

Thank you very much. (end)



701221SB.SUR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.39-40

-

Surat, December 21, 1970



*Prabhupāda: That is the material disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This roguism has to be purged. Then talk of spiritualism. At heart, dirty things are so much hugely accumulated by millions of years' contamination of this material world. It is very difficult to get out of this roguism. And to become a Vaiṣṇava, he has to become a brāhmaṇa. And brāhmaṇa means... One of the qualification, brāhmaṇa, is, ṣaḍ-laksa (?), ārjava, simplicity. The rogues cannot be simple. Always intriguing, making plan, plotting-these are roguisms. But a Vaiṣṇava requires very simple life. Satya-śama-dama-titikṣa-ārjava [Bg. 18.42]. (someone sneezing) Ārjavam means simplicity. (aside:) He is very forward, without any covering. Now he is sneezing.



*Nature's law is so subtle. Uru*-dāmni baddhāḥ. Bhāgavata says, uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Just like a man is tied up tightly, hands and legs, by the laws of nature we are tied up in that way. Every part of our body is being controlled by some controller. We cannot violate a very insignificant portion of nature's law. Kṛṣṇa is perfect. We think that, we rogues, "Kṛṣṇa cannot see." But Kṛṣṇa has kept so many witnesses, and He is sitting Himself within. How you can hide and seek? No hide and seek. That is another foolishness, illusion. How you can hide yourself from Kṛṣṇa? That's not possible. And we are violating the laws of nature, and we are suffering. No excuse. Exactly like that: if a child catches fire, the catches fire will no excuse because it is a child. No. It will act. So we should know that, that... (aside:) Yes, yes. Aiye. There cannot be any excuse. Therefore we have to be very, very careful. And the best carefulness is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Simply if we surrender. (aside:) You take this letter and post immediately, immediately after class. In that envelope our Dhruvānanda Mahārāja has written that "I am enclosing herewith one bird's-eye view plan." Eh? Have you done? If he has done, ask him and put it. If he has not, without that plan we shall send. Aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

I am very glad the young doctor is attending this meeting. He can cure many patients who are suffering from this material disease. What do you think, Doctor?

Doctor: Very kind of you.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You are now curing physical disease, but when you take up curing material, I mean to say, spiritual disease... Yes. Try to bring all people to the normal spiritual life. All their suffering is due to abnormal spiritual life, all suffering. Because, I was discussing with my disciples just now, nature's law is so subtle and so acute, that a little violation will be punished immediately. You know. You are medical man. Little violation will immediately subjected to the punishment. This is God's law. There is a word in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Uru. Uru means very strong and dāmni means rope. Just like if you are tied up with a strong rope, hands and feet, as you are helpless, our position is like that. This very word is used, uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Na te viduḥ... And such baddha, conditioned souls, they are declaring freedom: "I don't care for anyone. I don't care for God." How much foolishness. Just like sometimes naughty children, they are also bound up. Yaśodāmayī also bound up Kṛṣṇa. That is an Indian system, or everywhere, that tied up. And that small child, when it is bound up, if that child declares freedom, how it is possible? Similarly, by the laws of mother nature we are bound up. How you can declare freedom? Every part of our body is being controlled by some controller. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Even your, this eyelid moving, that is also under some controller.



*So the people do not understand it, and they are declaring, "I am God. I don't care for God. God is dead." How God is dead? You are under so much control, and how God is dead? You can say that there is no government, provided there is nobody to check you. But if you are in every step checked, how you can say that there is no government. That is another foolishness. All men, they have been declared in the Bhāgavata, abodha*-jāta, born fools and rascals. But these are very strong words. But if we state the strong, that is another foolishness. It is so, and if we deny, that "We cannot accept such strong things," then another foolishness. Begin.

*[break] Begin from there. Where is Bhagyobhai? (pause) Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] Viṣṇudūta, representative of Lord Viṣṇu, challenged the Yamadūta that "If you are representative of Yamarāja, who is supposed to be one of the authorities of religion, then you must explain what is religion, dharma, and what is nonreligion, or adharma, because, according to this principle, one is punished or rewarded. If you become religious, then you are rewarded, and if you are irreligious, then you are punished." That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā also:

*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*How a man is going to heaven or hell, one can understand from the direction of the scriptures, just like you can understand how a man is going to be punished or rewarded within this material world. If you see somebody is working very hard, doing nicely, you can conjecture that "This man will be happy." Say, for example, if a boy is studying very nicely, you can conjecture that "This boy will rise very highly in his future life." And similarly, if a boy is whiling away his time by playing, you can understand, "This boy is being spoiled." Similarly, by the direction of the scripture, you can understand what is the destination of a certain person. Therefore they say, śāstra*-cakṣuṣaḥ. Whether I am progressing or regressing, that will be understood through the eyes of śāstra, not in ordinary eyes.



So he says, kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ kiṁ vāsya sthānam īpsitam. [SB 6.1.39] "According to punishment and reward, a man, a living entity..." Living entity means this daṇḍaḥ, this punishment and reward is meant for the human being, not the animals. Animals are not supposed to be under the stringent laws of material nature. Just like in ordinary way, all the state laws are applicable to the human being, not to the animals. Because if an animal goes to the wrong path or if an animal takes away something from your possession, he is not punished, neither anybody goes to complain in the police court. Similarly, human being... That is also civilized human being, advanced, civilized... That is stated here that daṇḍyāḥ kiṁ kāriṇaḥ sarve āho svit katicin nṛṇām. Human being... That is also very few human being, because those who are supposed to be advanced, the Aryans... The Aryans are called the advanced human being. The civilization means Aryan civilization. So katicin nṛṇām. This very word is used here. Not all human beings. Those who are..., they are also punished. But a civilized human being is very much responsible life. The chance is given to get out of this cycle of birth and death. Therefore, for civilized human being, these *Vedas*, these scriptures, are made for them, not for the rascals and fools, those who are in the lower stage of life, only for the civilized.

*So the yamadūta ūcuḥ. Then the reply is given by the Yamadūtas, the representatives, the constables of Yamarāja. They are working under Yamarāja, who is an authority. They must know. They must know what is right and wrong. So how nicely they are replying. So the first challenge was given: "What is dharma? What is religion? What is piety?" So they are replying, veda*-praṇihito dharmaḥ: "Dharma means the injunctions given in the Vedas. That is dharma." Just like if you ask, "What is law?" then the immediate answer is, "Law means the injunction of the state." You cannot make it law. The state, the government, whatever the government orders, that is law. The word of the government is law. Similarly, dharma means the injunctions given in the Vedas. It is clearly said, veda-praṇihito dharma hy adharmas tad viparyayaḥ: [SB 6.1.40] "And nonreligions or irreligion, irreligion, or nonreligion, is just the opposite." For example, if you abide by the laws of the Vedas, then you should know that you are following the path of dharma, or religion. But if you do not abide by the laws of Vedas, then you are irreligious. This is the sum and substance.

*Now, why Vedas should be accepted to seriously? At least we, who are supposed to be followers of the Vedic laws, we take it so seriously. For example, how we accept the injunctions of Vedas seriously? There is example, a stool, animal stool, or any, human being stool-stool is stool*-that stool is supposed to be impious, impure. If you touch stool, then you have to take your bath. You become impure. You have to take your bath, as you do generally. After passing stool we take bath. That is a Hindu injunction. And even a man goes twice for passing stool, he must take twice bath. That is real Hindu religious life. Now, stool, in one place it is said that "It is impure. If you touch, then you have to take your bath." In another place it is said, "This stool, particular, the cow dung, is pure. Cow dung is pure. If there is any impure place, if you smear over it cow dung, then it is pure." That is also injunction of the Vedas. Now, you cannot argue that "One place you say that this stool is impure, and another place you say this is pure. This is contradiction." Sometimes people find this contradiction. But you have to accept because it is injunction of the Vedas. That you are doing practically every day.

*Similarly, this bone, any bone, animal bone, if you touch, you have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell, which you are sounding, vibrating in the Deity room, that is also bone. But you cannot argue that "You say bone is impure. Why you are taking one bone in the Deity room?" That you cannot say. This is acceptance of Vedas, without any argument. And if you want to know why one is accepted pure and one is accepted impure, if you make, I mean to say, research, you will find that the Vedic injunction is right. Take for..., this cow dung. Perhaps, you doctor, know, that one Dr. Lalman Ghosh in Calcutta, he analyzed this cow dung and he was a professor in the medical college. He has declared that cow dung is full of antiseptic properties. So Vedic injunction is... That is right. But sometimes it appears to be contradictory. But we cannot judge how it is so contradictory. We have to accept like that. That is the following of Vedic rules. Similarly, in the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find, Kṛṣṇa has explained so many ways karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, so many other things, but ultimately He says bhakti-yoga is the Supreme. Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja means this is bhakti-yoga. One has to simply obey or surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, giving up all other types of religious principles. So one can say that Lord Kṛṣṇa said in some places of the Bhagavad-gītā that this yoga, karma-yoga is nice, jñāna-yoga is nice. No. The last word, what He says, that is to be accepted. You cannot argue that Kṛṣṇa said karma-yoga is also good. You cannot argue that "I shall take to karma-yoga." That is, karma-yoga, different stages of evolution. One who is fit for simply karma-yoga, that process is recommended for him. But if one ultimately wants the supreme benefit, then this is the injunction of Bhagavad-gītā, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].

*So we have to follow the Vedic principles. That is dharma. And why Vedic principles are to be accepted as supreme? That is also explained here. Veda*-praṇihito dharmo hy adharmas tad viparyayaḥ vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt [SB 6.1.40]. Veda means Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly. Just like lawbook is directly government, similarly, veda nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt svayambhūr iti śuśruma. Again he says, susruma, "I have heard it. I have heard it." When I say, "I have heard it," that means I have heard it from a superior authority. Śuśruma. No follower of Vedic principle will say, "It is my opinion." Your opinion is nonsense. What you are? This is the way of understanding Vedas. Śuśruma. Therefore Veda is known as śruti, śruti and smṛti. There is no such thing that "In my opinion, I comment like this. I take the meaning like this." No. You have to understand it by the śuśruma process or śrota-panthā, by hearing from the authorities.

*Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1], that "First of all I said this principle of bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, or Bhagavad-gītā yoga, to the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham: "I spoke." Proktavān. Vivasvān manave prahuḥ: "And the sun*-god said to his son, Manu." Manur ikṣvākave bravīt. Just see. That means the principles of Bhagavad-gītā is being accepted by the process of hearing from authority. That is the process. You cannot comment in your own way. That is not authorized. You have to hear from the authority. Therefore Kathopanisad says, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "If anyone wants to learn the transcendental science, he has to accept." Gacchet. This is vidhiliṅ, "must." There is no exception. You cannot say that "Without going to a spiritual master, I shall learn the transcendental science." No, that is not possible. Therefore, in our Vaiṣṇava principles, it is said, ādau gurv-āśrayam. In the very beginning of understanding spiritual knowledge, one has to take shelter of a guru. Ādau gurv-āśrayam. Sad-dharma-pṛcchati: "The next stage is inquiring from the spiritual master about real spiritual life." These are the processes.

*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also it is said that tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: [SB 11.3.21] "One who has actually become serious inquiring about supreme subject, uttamam..." Udgata tamaṁ yasmāt. In the material world, all knowledge is covered with illusion, and material world is known as tama. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. This is darkness. So real knowledge means which has surpassed this province of darkness, uttamam. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: "Anyone who has become very much inquisitive to learn about the transcendental subject matter, he has to accept a guru." Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Guru means you have to find out some personality who is well versed in the Vedic knowledge. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. These are the symptoms of guru: that he is well versed, well cognizant in the conclusion of the Vedas. Not only that he is well-versed, but he has actually in his life taken to that path, upaśamāśrayam, without being deviated by any other ways. Upaśama, upaśama. He has finished all material hankerings. He has taken simply to the spiritual life and simply surrendered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And at the same time, he knows all the Vedic conclusions. This is the description of a guru. Similarly, Kathopaniṣad it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta... [SB 11.3.21]. This is Bhāgavata. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāniḥ śrotriyam [MU 1.2.12]. Śrotriyam. One who has very nicely heard, one who has acquired Vedic knowledge by the hearing process, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham, and the result is that he is fully, firmly fixed up in Brahman. Bhagavad-gītā also says that tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Tat. If you want to understand the spiritual knowledge, then you have to learn it by surrender, praṇipāta. Praṇipātena, paripraśnena and sevayā-these three things. You have to surrender. You have to inquire or make questions with service, not by challenging way. Upadekṣyanti tad-jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Then you will be able to understand real spiritual knowledge.

*So veda-praṇihitaḥ, this very word, is implicated with so many ideas of Vedic knowledge, but they have summarized that "Dharma means the injunctions of the Vedas." Dharmo... Veda-praṇihito dharmo hy adharmas tad viparyayaḥ, vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Why Vedas should be taken so seriously? People question that "Vedas are written by some man." That's wrong. Vedas are not written by any man. Otherwise, why Vedas should be taken so seriously? Not... Not present moment. It is coming. All the ācāryas. All the ācāryas. So far we are concerned, we Indians, Hindus, we are very controlled by the ācāryas, recent ācāryas-Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī. They have accepted Vedas as supreme. Lord Caitanya accepted Vedas as the supreme. And Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, still, because he did not accept Vedas, his philosophy was not accepted in India. Veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Our principle, the Vedic principle, is that anyone who does not obey the injunctions of the Vedas, he is called nāstika, atheist. He does not believe. Veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's saying that "We consider the Buddhists as atheists because they do not accept the Vedic principles." But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, vedāśraya-nāstikya-vada bauddhake adhika: "But persons who superficially says that 'We are being controlled by the Vedas,' but actually they are atheists-they do not believe in God*-they are more dangerous than these Buddhists." That is the version of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

*So dharma-praṇihitaḥ. Veda-praṇihito dharmo hy adharmas tad viparyayaḥ, vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. This is the injunction. You have to accept the Vedic words as the words of Nārāyaṇa. Now, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then whatever He has said in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is Veda. Is it not? If vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt, if Vedas are to be considered as Nārāyaṇa directly, then Kṛṣṇa... He is accepted by the ācāryas as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is a conclusion of the Vedas also. Nārāyaṇa is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. If you read Caitanya-caritāmṛta-and there are many other saṁhitās*-Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Even He is the cause of Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa expansion. Kṛṣṇa expands, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. He is advaita, absolute, but He expands Himself in multiforms. He expands Himself as Baladeva, and from Baladeva, there is Saṅkarṣaṇa; *from Saṅkarṣaṇa, there is Aniruddha, Pradyumna. In this way, expansion goes. These are Vedic versions. So Nārāyaṇa is also Kṛṣṇa's expansion, although these expansions are not different from one another. That is also... The example is given, just like one candle. Then you light up another candle, another candle. Each one of these candles are equally powerful, but the original candle is called the first candle. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead. From Him, all other expansions... They are called Viṣṇu*-tattva. And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8], aham ādir devānām. These things are there.



*So in this way we have to accept dharma. As it is said in the recent, say, within five years, five thousand years, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is... Actually we are spreading. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means what Kṛṣṇa has said. That we have taken. That is Vedas. Sometimes people argue that Bhagavad*-gītā is smṛti. Professor, Dr. Stahl, he argued with me that Bhagavad-gītā is smṛti. Smṛti means the Vedic conclusion written by somebody else. That is called smṛti. He is also authorized. So Bhagavad-gītā is also accepted as smṛti, but smṛti is not different from śruti. Rūpa Gosvāmī says,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi

*pañcarātriki*-vidhiṁ-vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*So smṛti is not without Veda. Or Purāṇa... Sometimes people do not accept the Purāṇas as Vedic. No. Here it is said by Rūpa Gosvāmī, śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi [Brs. 1.2.101]. They are all Vedas. Purāṇa means supplementary. Just like the Vedic knowledge is described in the Mahābhārata. It is in the form of history. But actually the Vedic knowledge is there. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocaraḥ [SB 1.4.25]. Strī, woman, śūdra, and dvija-bandhu... Dvija-bandhu means a person who is born in brāhmaṇa family but he is not advanced in spiritual knowledge. He is called dvija-bandhu. He is not called a brāhmaṇa. Strī, śūdra. And they are classified along with strī and śūdra. Strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocaraḥ. For these persons it is very difficult to understand the Vedic injunctions. Therefore the Vedic injunctions are sometimes made into historical stories. The stories, they are not fiction; *they are fact. But some of the... Just like the Battle of Kurukṣetra between the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas, this is a fact. But the incidences are so nice that you can derive Vedic knowledge from them. And Bhagavad*-gītā is within Mahābhārata.



*So this is a fact, that veda*-praṇihito dharmaḥ. Dharma... It is to be settled up that dharma means the injunction of the Supreme Nārāyaṇa. And adharma means that you manufacture something out of your own fertile brain. That is adharma. And dharma means the injunction. Dharmāṁ (tu) sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Dharma means what is spoke by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is dharma." Therefore we take it for acceptance that Kṛṣṇa says... That is actually the fact. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. To surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, that is dharma. Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. And in another place of the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Those who are thinking themselves as advanced in knowledge, such persons, after many, many births take to the surrendering process to Kṛṣṇa. So the version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and version of the Vedas and version of Bhagavad-gītā, there is no difference. It has to be studied a little carefully.

I think we should finish here. Any questions? Now we have come to the conclusion: dharma means the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is sum and substance, what we mean by dharma. That means dharma cannot be manufactured by any conditioned soul. Conditioned souls, they are subjected to so many deficiencies; *therefore they cannot create any dharma. That will not be accepted as dharma. Here, as the assistants of Yamarāja says, that veda-praṇihito dharmo... Dharma means what is stated in the Vedas. And Vedas means the Supreme Personality of Godhead, sākṣād, directly. Just like when you speak, when you speak or hear Bhagavad-gītā, immediately we should know-at least this vision we take*-that Kṛṣṇa is directly speaking. And if we interpret, then the whole thing is lost. That is not Bhagavad-gītā, and that is going on, malinterpretation of Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone is taking Bhagavad-gītā, and he is interpreting in his own way. So that is not Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā means as Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. But a commentator, big commentator, says, "Oh, it is not to Kṛṣṇa, to the person." Just see. This kind of commentary is going on.

Mālatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that the animals are not subject to the laws of the state, that if they steal something, they are not punished. But in our country, even if a person has a mouse in his house, a little mouse, he sets some trap and he kills him for stealing food.



Prabhupāda: That is not punishment. That is to stop the disturbance. By law... There is no such law that "When there is a rat in your house, you should catch it and kill it." Law does not say. Is there any law like that?



Mālatī: No.



Prabhupāda: Then that is another thing.



Mālatī: But this country had it into the laws.(?)



*Prabhupāda: Yes, but sometimes... That depends on the person. Sometimes... Those who are pious persons, they know that these rats, they are also hungry and they should be given some food. That is the vision of the pious person. And that is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that in your house you should see not only to the welfare of your children. Even there is a lizard, there is a rat, even there is a snake, you should see how he is also comfortably situated. That is spiritual communism. In Vṛndāvana still, a snake found in the house is never killed, snake. Still a rat is never killed. If you kill a rat in Vṛndāvana, then so many people will come: "Oh, you are committing such sinful acts. You are killing a rat." That depends on the mentality of the person. You can take care of this animal, I mean to say, against the disturbance created by this animal, but you cannot kill them. That is not. But when it is unavoidable, we have to do like that. But as far as possible we should avoid. We have heard from our father that his elder brother in the village had a cloth shop, and there were rats. So at night he would keep a big bowl of rice in the middle of the shop, and the rats will eat whole night. They would not commit any harm to the cloth. They respect it. They are also hungry, they are also living entities. They have also right to live, to eat. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything. They are God's creatures. The food is not only meant for you, that you shall simply eat rice and not allow to the rats and cats. No. That is not Vedic injunction. You will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You can take precaution. After all, they are animals. But you cannot kill.



Himāvatī: But then if you think further, that is that if you are going to make a program to feed the animals in your house, then won't more and more animals come into your residence? Suppose I feed these rats and I go on feeding them. Won't more and more rats come?



*Prabhupāda: Well, the rats will be fed. Either you give or not, it will steal. So that is not the problem. But if you give them food, they will... Of course, that is Western philosophy, that because the animals are increasing, they should be killed. We Indians also, we have taken that view*-because we cannot give protection to the cows, they must be sent to the slaughterhouse. That is the modern view. But that is not injunction of the Vedas. The Vedas says that everyone has right to live, every living entity. That is going on not only in consideration of the animals-even in human beings. Just like the Americans, they were all Europeans, and they entered this American land, killed so many Red Indians. So these kind of things are going on, but that does not mean that is the law. You killed so many Red Indians for your benefit, but you have to suffer for that. So that... This is going on in the human society, but that does not mean it is dharma. No. Dharma means you have to abide by the regulation given by the Vedas. You have to adjust things. Sometimes in Africa the man-eaters, they kill their grandfather, make a feast. The Russians also, they maintain such theory, that old men, they should be neglected. I have heard. I do not know. They become burden. But that is not Vedic injunction.



Himāvatī: But isn't that natural, just like no one wants to keep an old bull in the barn?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. These things are man*-manufactured. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Therefore we have to accept the words of Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is dharma.



Yamunā: Bhaktivinoda in one of his prayers prays that he may be born "as a worm in the home of Thy devotee, rather than be born a brāhmaṇa averse to Thee."



*Prabhupāda: Yes? [break] So in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam every line is so interesting. Therefore vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ: "Knowledge means up to the knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." But generally people do not discuss Bhāgavatam in this way. They go immediately to the Tenth Canto and rāsa-līlā. You see? That is the subject matter of (chuckles) Bhāgavatam. And Bhagavat-saptāha means that Kṛṣṇa is kissing the gopīs. That's all. And there are so many nice instructions*-that is not nothing. They have neglected because they do not like to hear such instructions. Kṛṣṇa's dealings with the gopīs, that is very much liked. But Bhāgavata, in order to understand Kṛṣṇa, nine cantos have been written. And Kṛṣṇa's activities have been inserted in the Tenth Canto, after understanding Kṛṣṇa. Vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. And it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. So first of all one has to become liberated person by understanding Kṛṣṇa; then he can understand what is Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with the gopīs. It is for the liberated person. It is not a thing to be explained in the marketplace. (end)





701222SB.SUR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.40

-

Surat, December 22, 1970



Prabhupāda:



*veda*-praṇihito dharmo

*hy adharmas tad*-viparyayaḥ

vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt

svayambhūr iti śuśruma

[SB 6.1.40]



*So we were speaking this verse yesterday morning. So vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. That is to be understood*-why Vedas are given so much importance. Here it is explained that Veda means directly Nārāyaṇa. Why? Because Nārāyaṇa is absolute, God is absolute; *therefore the words of God are also God. You cannot make any differentiation. Sākṣāt, directly. So this is to be understood, that God*-His form, His quality, His pastimes, His entourage-everything of God is God. Even sometimes... Why sometimes? Always, the devotee of God is also God. Just like we chanted this mantra, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ, that "In every scripture the spiritual master is identified as directly God." Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Viśvanātha Cakravartī said, not that any section śāstra, but all śāstra, all scriptures, they admit that the spiritual master is God directly. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ: ** "It is said. It is mentioned. Authoritative śāstra, actually bona fide śāstra, it is said." Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ: ** "It is said." And sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ: ** "And that is accepted by all strict followers of transcendental science." Not that somebody admits or somebody does not admit. No. Everyone, sadbhiḥ. Sadbhiḥ means "by the transcendentalists, those who are actually making progress in transcendental science and those who are..., objective is to reach the Supreme." They are doing.



*Then again, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Why the spiritual master should be accepted directly as Nārāyaṇa and God? The Māyāvāda philosophers, they say, "Yes, spiritual master is God and I am God, you are God*-everyone is God." No. That is rectified. Everyone is not God. God is God, and living entities are living entities. In the Vedas it is..., nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām: (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) "He is the prime entity of all entities." So there cannot be two Gods. One God. As such, if God is one, there cannot be two religion also, because religion means to understand God, to love God. That is religion. And religion means the words of God, just as it is said. So why there should be two religions? There cannot be two religions. There may be some difference according to climate, country, population. There may be some difference in the execution of religion. But on principle there cannot be two religions because God is one and religion means the words of God. So how there can be two religions? We have made two, three, four, five, six, increasing the number of religion. Just like in New York we have seen the United Nations organization. It is said they are united, but there are thousands of flags. Disunited. Because actually they do not want to unite. It is a farce that they have made a United Nations organization. Nobody wants to unite. In the material world how there can be unity? That is not possible. Material world means everyone wants to enjoy to his satisfaction sense gratification. That is material world. So you want to satisfy your senses, I want to satisfy my senses. Therefore there is struggle: "Oh, this man is enjoying so much; I am unable." Even brother to brother, envious: "Oh, my, this brother has increased so much money. He is enjoying." Envious. That is material envy, to be envious.

*Therefore the science of God is for persons who are not envious. That is religion. Bhāgavata, in the Bhāgavata you will find in the beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita*-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām: [SB 1.1.2] "Here the religion of Bhāgavata is not a cheating religion." Kaitava. Kaitava means cheating, cheating. And Śrīdhara Svāmī has remarked, commented on the statement, kaitava. He says that atra mokṣa-vāñchā-paryantaṁ nirastam:(?) "Anyone who is trying to become liberated or merge into the existence of God, that is also cheating." Nirastam: that is also nullified, nirastam. Why? Why the...? A person who is trying to be merged into the existence of God, jñānīs... Those who are philosophically advancing, they are called jñānīs. The Absolute Truth Idea is that "Because I am Brahman, and God is also Brahman, therefore, as soon as I am freed from māyā, I become one with God." In one sense it is all right because God and the living entity, they are of the same quality. As it is stated in the Vedas, nityo nityānām. There are millions and trillions of nityas, eternals. So God is the chief eternal. Therefore quality, eternity, is there both for the living entities and God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Knowledge, sense, cetana, life, activities... So God is also active; the living entities are also active. But His actions and my actions are not comparable. Just like God is creator; I am also creator. So in this way I am one. I have got creative power; *God has also creative power. But God creates innumerable universes, and you can create a motorcar. That's all, no more. Or atom bomb*-to kill. You cannot create a planet; *you can create a sputnik. With great difficulty it flies in the sky. But God's creation*-innumerable planets, they are floating without any machine. Still, the rascal says, "There is no God. I am God." You do like God; then you become God. What you have done like God? You have created a toy flying in the sky. Therefore you are so much proud that you compare yourself with God? This is called demons, demonic. Unnecessarily, without any authority, when a man claims that "I am God," that is demonic.

*Now, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa was materially very much powerful, but he defied Rāma: "What is Rāma? I am more than Rāma. I shall kidnap His wife, and I shall enjoy." So this is Rāvaṇa, Rāvaṇa spirit. Sītā... Sītā is Lakṣmī. Lakṣmī is the goddess of fortune. So God is the husband of the goddess of fortune, and goddess of fortune is under His control. Lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. Thousands and millions of goddesses of fortune are serving the Supreme Lord, and I am thinking that "God has become poor, daridra, daridra-nārāyaṇa." And what...? Nārāyaṇa, He is so great authority that His words are accepted as Vedic truth, and He has become daridra? These are all demonic declarations.

*So sincere..., those who are actually followers of Vedas, they should understand that there is no difference between the Lord and His words-absolute. We read Bhagavad-gītā, the words of Kṛṣṇa. Then how we can change the meaning of Gītā when it is spoken by Lord? Does it mean that I am greater than the Lord? "Kṛṣṇa left something to be told by some rascals later on"-is that the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā? Then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? If the meaning was to be corrected and commented by a conditioned soul, then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? Then what is the necessity of reading Bhagavad-gītā? Simply because it is written in Sanskrit? No. That is not the fact. The words of Bhagavad-gītā are Kṛṣṇa. That should be taken into consideration. That is real reading of Bhagavad-gītā. And if we read Bhagavad-gītā according to my whims*-I like some stanza; *I take it, and other stanza I give up*-that is not reading of Bhagavad-gītā. You have to take everything, what it is presented. Just like Arjuna says, who has taken Bhagavad-gītā as it is. He says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava: [Bg. 10.14] "My dear Lord..." He... Of course, he was friend. "My dear Kṛṣṇa, whatever You have spoken, I accept in toto." There is no question of eliminating this stanza and that stanza. I accept some, selected, and I become a student of Bhagavad-gītā and authority of Bhagavad-gītā. No. That is not authority of Bhagavad-gītā. You have to accept. And then it is...

Similarly, Vedas, as I gave you the example, that in the Vedas you will find that stools are considered as impure, stool of some animal, but Vedas says that "This stool, the cow stool, is pure." So there is no argument that "Once you said that stool of animal is impure, and another time you say that this stool is pure. Once you said that all bones of animals are impure; again you say that śaṅkha, conchshell... This is also a bone of an animal. You say it is pure." So there cannot be any argument. Veda says, "This is this; *this is that." We have to accept it. That is the following of religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. And vedaḥ sākṣāt... Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt svayambhūḥ. Svayambhūr iti śuśruma. Svayambhū. Svayambhū means which is not created by any man. Just like Brahmā is sometimes called Svayambhū. His another name is Svayambhū. Svayambhū means he was not created by father and mother. The father-mother... Ordinarily, a living entity take birth by the combination of father and mother. But Brahmā is called Svayambhū because he is not created by father and mother. Then again, you can argue that Brahmā was created by Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, so He is his father. But the argument can be defied that although He is the father, but he was not born of a mother. That is all-powerful Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu. You have seen the picture that Nārāyaṇa is lying down on the water of Garbhodaka, udaka, and Lakṣmī is massaging His lotus feet, and Brahmā in a lotus flower is born. So generally, when a father begets a son, he takes the advantage of his wife, the help of his wife. But here Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, although His wife is present, He did not take the assistance of the wife. A lotus sprouted from His navel, and there was Brahmā. That is all-powerful. Generally we understand that whenever there is birth, the man and woman must combine. But that is for ordinary entities or in this material world. But that is not possible in the case of God, or Viṣṇu. Therefore He is called sarva-śaktimān, all-powerful. He can do anything, whatever He likes.

*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is stated, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti [Bs. 5.32]. So we have to take the help of Vedic literature. Then we understand what is God. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti: "The limbs of Kṛṣṇa or God has got the potency of all other limbs." Just like with eyes we can see only, but Kṛṣṇa, or God, can eat also with eyes. With ears we simply hear, but... Just like this navel. The navel has got some purpose, but Kṛṣṇa can beget. Nārāyaṇa can beget a child also, Brahmā. Therefore, in the śāstras it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. All the potencies of all other limbs can be found in... (aside:) Why it is closed?

Devotee (1): There's men making some noise downstairs.



Prabhupāda: But others who are outside, they are closed. It can be open. You can ask them to stop.



*So Śrīdhara Svāmī says, vedena praṇihitaḥ vihita*-dharma, vedena praṇihitaḥ vihita-dharma, na ca pramāṇa..., sa ca veda-pramāṇaka ity arthaḥ.(?) So whenever you accept some religion, you have to corroborate with the words of the Vedas. Then that is religion. Veda means knowledge, the knowledge, not ordinary knowledge-transcendental knowledge. Why Vedas' knowledge accepted so rigidly? It is already said, sākṣād nārāyaṇaḥ. Because it is spoken by... In the words of Nārāyaṇa there are no deficiencies. In the words of conditioned soul there are so many deficiencies. Why? The deficiencies are that bhrama... Any conditioned soul, however great he may be, he must commit mistakes. That is one of the deficiencies. In this material world, however great one may be in the estimation of the general populace, he is not above committing mistakes. "To err is human," as it is said. We commit mistake. Bhrama, pramāda. And pramāda means to accept something as something, something else. Just like the most erudite scholar, he also accepts that "This body is the self. There is no soul." Others... There are many scholars, they do not accept that there is soul differently. "This body is everything," that is called pramāda. Bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsā. Vipralipsā means cheating. Every conditioned soul has a cheating propensity. "For my purpose, to fulfill my purpose, I say something to you which is not beneficial to you, but still, I impress that this is right." That is called cheating. And karaṇa-pāṭava. Karaṇa means the senses. The senses are also imperfect. I am seeing the sun daily with my eyes, but still, I have no full knowledge of the sun because my eyes are imperfect. If there is any sound upstairs, and I inquire, "What is this sound?" (aside:) Why he is crying so much? What is that? (man talking loudly outside the room)

Haṁsadūta: Telephone.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, telephone. Oh. That's all right. So Śrīdhara Svāmī says that vedena praṇihita vihita dharmaḥ sa ca veda*-pramāṇaka ity arthaḥ.(?) Unless it is verified by the words of the Vedas, that cannot be accepted as authoritative. Anena yo veda-pramakaḥ sa dharmaḥ. Now, it is concluded that "Anything which is supported by the Vedic injunction, that is dharma." Sa dharma yo 'dharmo na veda pramāṇakaḥ: "And any dharma which is not corroborated by the Vedas, that is not dharma. That is not accepted as religion." Iti svarūpaḥ pramāṇaṁ ca ity uktam.(?) Now, that is the characteristic of dharma, svarūpa. So if we want to understand what is dharma, then the test should be whether it is corroborated by the Vedas. Then it is dharma. Otherwise it is...



*Now, the question may be that the Indians or the followers of the Vedas... Now it has become so. Actually, the followers of Vedas are everyone. Every human being is the followers of Veda because the history of all other religions, they are all recent-one thousand year, two thousand years, three thousand years-but you cannot trace out the history of the Vedic religion. So from historical point of view, suppose one religion is current for the last three thousand years. Then what was their condition before three thousand years? So the natural conclusion is: as there was no such religion three thousand years and the Vedic religion has no history-it is coming from time immemorial*-that was the religion. Take for example in India. Twenty years before there was no Pakistan, but now there is Pakistan. Under certain circumstances, the religious principle has changed, but originally every human being on this planet were following the Vedic religion. And another sense, everyone is following the Vedic religion if it is religion.

*How? In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Sarvaṁ vedam: "all Vedas." "All Vedas" means originally there was one Veda, Ṛg Veda, or, somebody says, Atharva Veda. Then, later on it was divided into four: Ṛg, Sāma, Yajur, Atharva. Then, from the Vedic injunction, then it was summarized, which is called Vedānta, summarized in sūtras. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the sūtra there are so many meanings. Then the Upaniṣads, 108 Upaniṣads, they are also Vedic. Then they were explained further for ordinary men-the Purāṇas. They are also Vedas. Then it was further explained by Mahābhārata. So that is also Veda. Rāmāyaṇa, that is also Veda. So any scripture, any literature, transcendental literature, whose aim is to understand God, that is Veda. Therefore, anyone who is searching after the Supreme Lord, he is following the Vedic religion. This is another conclusion. The searching process may be different according to the country, climate, but if the ultimate goal is God, then that is accepted as religion. Just like Christian religion. Christian religion, they are also searching after God-Lord Jesus Christ advising, "Be lover of God." He presents himself as son of God. The Muhammadan, Muhammad, he also presented himself as servant of God. In this way, everyone is accepting. Or if anyone is accepting God as the ultimate goal of religious process, that is also Vedic. Because Kṛṣṇa says that vedaiś ca sarvair aham. And a godless scripture, that is not accepted as religion. Therefore in India, although Lord Buddha appeared in India-he was a kṣatriya, and he started some religious principle*-it is not accepted because it is not, in the Buddha religion, there is no acceptance of God or soul.

*So these are some of the points. But the Bhāgavata says that although in the Buddha religion there is no, I mean to say, mention of worshiping God, but Lord Buddha is himself incarnation of God, and he induced his followers to worship him. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said that he cheated the atheists. The atheists were against God. He appeared before them. He said, "Yes, you are right. You don't worship God. You worship me." And he is incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta*-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. He is accepted in the Vedic literature as incarnation of God, but he says that "There is no God. You worship me. You follow me," because his principle was to stop animal-killing. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. God became very much compassionate. When people were too much addicted in killing animals unnecessarily, He appeared as Lord Buddha. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Paśu-ghātam. The paśu-ghātam means they were being implicated in innumerable sinful activities by this process. Therefore God wanted to... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. In the name of religion, they were killing so many animals. Therefore to stop this nonsense, he appeared. And he declined to accept the Vedic principles because there was no other way to stop. If he would have accepted Vedic principles, then these animal-killers would have shown him evidences that in the Vedas there is mention of animal-killing in the sacrifice. But he wanted to stop completely animal-killing; so therefore he adopted a new type of religion. But those who were followers of Vedic religion, they did not accept because that is not religion because it is against the Vedas. These are the principles.

*Śaṅkarācārya... Śaṅkarācārya, after Buddha, His Holiness Śaṅkarācārya appeared to drive away Buddhism, and he established again Vedic religion. But that Vedic religion, being impersonal, that is also not Vedic religion. That is also another thing, that God is person. Nityo nityānām. Nityānām, the so many living entities*-every one is person. How God can be imperson? If God is the supreme father... If you are a person, then how your father can be imperson? So that is imperfect knowledge. When we speak of God as imperson, that is imperfect knowledge.

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



The Absolute Truth is presented in three different phases. One is Brahman, impersonal Brahman, another is localized Paramātmā, and another is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we shall discuss again. Next morning we shall...



Mālatī: [break] ...that Lord Buddha, he adopted a new type of religion, but those who were strict followers of *Vedas*, they would not accept him. Does that mean that there were still people who were following those beliefs, scriptures, at his time, or did he convert all of India?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Buddha was patronized by the then emperor, Ashoka. And anything patronized by the state, it becomes very popular. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21]. So Lord Buddha converted Ashoka, Emperor Ashoka, to this religion. Therefore whole India became Buddhist. And later on, when Buddhism was driven out of India, the Jainism and similar other religious principles became visible. Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. Lord Buddha... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ is also Vedic religion, but they stressed especially on ahiṁsā. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find: amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam [Bg. 13.8]. These are the different steps of progressing in knowledge and religion. The first thing is amānitvam. Amānitvam means very humble. Very humble. And therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that tṛṇād api sunīcena, "Just become humbler than the straw in the street or grass." To become religious means... Lord Jesus Christ also, he taught like that-"The humble and meek will attain the kingdom of God." Is it not said like that?



Haṁsadūta: He said, "The greatest amongst you shall be the last..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Haṁsadūta: "...and the servant of all."



*Prabhupāda: So this is taught also in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Amānitvam adambhitvam. No false pride. Then ahiṁsā. Unless one is prideless, unless one is humble, it is not possible to become nonviolent. So this nonviolence is also there, the Vaiṣṇava. So automatically they don't encourage animal-killing. So every religion, the highest principle of any religion is there in Vaiṣṇavites, or the followers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Any best thing, in any religion, you will find in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is perfect. Buddha religion teaches ahiṁsā; the Kṛṣṇa conscious people are ahiṁsā. Lord Jesus teaches love of God; they are the best lover of God. And Hindu religion teaches liberation; *they are... As soon as they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately they are liberated, immediately, instantly. There is no question of asking for liberation. Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura says liberation means... What is that? Liberation from this material hankering. And what is that material hankering? To satisfy the senses. So these devotees, they are not for satisfying their senses. They are simply trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. They are determined to preach this cult, that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore they are actual representative of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately they are liberated. So, so far liberation is concerned, there is. So far ahiṁsā, nonviolence, there is. So far love of God is there, there is. So combination of Hindu religion, Muslim religion... And Muslims also, they also say their bandeḥ.(?) They also pray in the mosque. I do not know, of course, all other religions. These principal things I know. They also accept "Allah akbar", "God is great." We are all bandehs,(?) all servants. So that is also... Vaiṣṇavism, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Kṛṣṇa is great."



*So any highest principle of religion in any religion of the world you take, this is the summarization of all religions, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is accepted by Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam-sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: [SB 1.2.6] "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God, how to learn to love God." That is first class, not the rituals, not the formulas. That is another thing. Just like when a man is diseased, the physicians prescribes so many, that "You don't do this. You do this. You take this medicine. You just..." That is according to the particular disease. But the real aim is to be cured from the disease. So any religion which teaches to be cured from the material disease of sense gratification and teaches love of Godhead, that is perfect religion.

Revatīnandana: You were saying Lord Buddha gave impetus to Buddhism by converting the Emperor Ashoka. What is...?



Prabhupāda: No, no. Lord Buddha, of course, did not come to convert... Ashoka liked it, that's all.



Revatīnandana: But because of that, that gave impetus to the spreading of Buddhism.



*Prabhupāda: That is natural. If the state is after some religion... Just like Christian religion spread in India because there was Christian government. The Muhammadan religion spread because there was Muhammadan government. That is natural. If the state is following a certain type of religion, then naturally... And that is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. Just like in India, at least in Bengal, we have got the history that educated persons, they saw that "In Christian religion one can drink, one can eat meat. So why not become Christian?" So the drunkards and meat-eaters, they became Christians. Similarly the Muhammadans also, they thought a clue to deviate from the Vedic principles, and they turned themselves. Just like Aurangzeb enacted the lidia(?) tax, that all the Hindus will have to pay this tax. So the untouchables... Because Hindus made these untouchables, so untouchables, they thought that "Why shall I pay the tax? Better become Muhammadan." So so many people, they became converted into Muhammadans. So a state controls anything, if the state... Now the state is secular, atheist. The people are becoming atheist. They are teaching that "Throw away these scriptures. You eat everything. What is the wrong in eating flesh, eating meat, eating chickens?" They are advertising, "Eggs are available here." When the state supports, so people follow.



yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

tat tad evetaro janaḥ

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

[Bg. 3.21]



*This is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



Revatīnandana: The Emperor Constantine in Rome, when he became a Christian, that was the real beginning of the Christian era.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the whole Europe was under Roman Empire. That's nice.



Mālatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the United States' constitution there is a bill of rights that says that any religion can be practiced. Therefore anything goes and people become atheistic?



Prabhupāda: Yes, don't you feel that your people are atheistic?



Mālatī: Yes. Because they can do anything.



Prabhupāda: They are simply after wine and women. So that is fall of religion. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. As soon as he saw that one man was trying to kill a cow, immediately with his sword: "Who are you? You are killing a cow in my kingdom?" So if the state does not take steps in maintaining religion, then religion will fall down. Just like a father. If he does not take care of his son to be a man of character, he becomes a debauchee. That is natural. So according to Vedic principles, the kings were very much highly trained to see how the people are advancing in the spiritual knowledge. Just like one king... You will find in The *Nectar of Devotion*. There was law that... He said that, (chuckles) "If I do not find any one of my citizens with tilaka, then I shall punish him." So everyone, out of that fear, they used to have this tilaka. And they were looking all Vaiṣṇavas. (laughs) Although they had no very much faith in Viṣṇu, but out of fear of the state orders, they were having tilaka. So sometimes authority orders are accepted in that, out of fear. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause) I was thinking of Doctor..., yourself. You are a little late today? Yes. Let us stop here. Tomorrow we shall again... (end)





750721SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.40

-

San Francisco, July 21, 1975



*Nitāi: "...replied: What is established by the Vedas as duty, that is called religious principles, and irreligion is the opposite of that. The Vedas are directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, and are self*-born. Thus we have heard from Yamarāja."



Prabhupāda:



yamadūtā ūcuḥ

*veda*-praṇihito dharmo

*hy adharmas tad*-viparyayaḥ

vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt

svayambhūr iti śuśruma

[SB 6.1.40]



This word śuśruma is very important. "We have heard it." They never say that "We have manufactured it." Śuśruma means "We have heard it." Śuśruma, śuśruma: "We have heard it with service." That is the way of Vedic instruction.



*The Bhagavad*-gītā says,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



To receive Vedic knowledge... Vedic knowledge means spiritual knowledge. Material knowledge also, the same process, any knowledge, especially spiritual knowledge. Because material things sometimes we can perceive directly because our body is material. But spiritual knowledge, unless you hear from the authority, there is no source of knowledge. You cannot understand. Because we do not see what is spirit. I am spirit, you are spirit, but I do not see your spirit soul, you do not see my spirit soul, because we have got material eyes. When somebody dies, one cries, "Oh, my father is gone. My father is gone." Where is your father gone? Your father is lying on the bed. Why do you say father gone? That means with these material eyes we cannot see spirit.



So these material eyes has to be purified. Then spiritual eyes begins. Therefore it is said,

*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



All of our eyes are covered with darkness; *we cannot see. Then how we can see in the darkness? Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Śalākayā means torch. So the torch, what is that torch? Jñānāñjana, smearing with the ointment of knowledge, that is the torch. So knowledge means not to see but to hear. Therefore it is called śruti, śuśruma. Knowledge has to be received through the ear, not by the eyes. Not by the eyes. This is not recommended. Nobody says, "I want to see knowledge," no: "I want to hear knowledge." Therefore it is called śruti, and knowledge is received through the ear, aural reception. Why not with eyes and other senses? That is also very important to know. Suppose you are sleeping. Then all your senses are also sleeping. But the ear does not sleep. You have got practical experience. When a man is sleeping and somebody is coming to kill him, so what do you say? You cry, "Mr. such and such, wake up! Wake up! There is danger. There is..." Then he can... Otherwise, all the senses are there, but only the ear will help you. The eyes are there, hands are there, legs are there, everything is there-nothing of this limbs of your, part of your body, will help you. Simply your ear will help you when you are in danger. Therefore here it is said, śuśruma: "We have received knowledge through the ears, not with the eyes." Those rascals says, "I want to see practically." He cannot see. That is not possible. The modern defect is that they do not hear. The so-called scientists, philosophers, they do not hear. They simply want to see, want to touch, want to smell, want to lick up. That is not knowledge. So they are all failure. They do not hear. But the process is here, as it is said, śuśruma: "We have received knowledge by hearing from the authority." That is perfect knowledge. That is perfect knowledge.



*So what they heard? They heard from Yamarāja, their master, that the dharma is that which is enunciated in the Vedas. That is dharma. Dharma, that does not mean that a faith. Faith, of course, we have to. Dharma, religion, is explained in English dictionary as "a kind of faith." That is the beginning. But really dharma means the constitutional position. That is dharma. Constitutional position. Just like chemicals. Chemicals, to find its purity, the books of pharmacology or other books this chemical, the water, it contains so many percentage of hydrogen, so many percentage of oxygen, and so on, so on. So there is taste. The potassium cyanide, there is no taste. But other chemicals there are taste, touching. Because nobody has tasted potassium cyanide up to date, because as soon as you touch on the tongue, you will die. So similarly, there are taste. So what is the taste? Taste is that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya*-kṛṣṇa-dāsa: [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109] we are eternal servant of God. This is our dharma, or constitutional position. Just like sugar is sweet. That is the taste. If sugar is salty, although both of them looks the same, white powder, but if I give you sugar and if it is actually salt, then immediately you will say, "Oh, this is not sugar. This is not sugar." How? By taste. Similarly, everything has got his constitutional position. The sugar is sweet, and the chili is pungent. If sugar is pungent and chili is sweet, then you throw it away. It is not real. It is not real. Similarly, what is the constitutional position of human being, dharma? To serve. This is the constitutional position. Every one of us, we are serving. Without service we have no other business. So this is our constitutional position. But we are serving wrongly; *therefore we are not satisfied. This is the position. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore begins His philosophy from this point, that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya*-kṛṣṇa-dāsa: [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109] "The real constitutional position of all living entities is to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is constitutional position.

*But unfortunately, being misguided, instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, we are serving so many other things. Somebody is serving his family. Somebody is serving his country. Somebody is serving his dog. In this way, service is there*-but the service is misplaced. Therefore we are not satisfied. Why in the material world people are not satisfied? Because his position is to serve Kṛṣṇa. He is serving māyā; *therefore he is not happy. Plain thing. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "Jīva, the living entity, they are My part and parcel." So each one of us, we are part and parcel of God. So we have got some duty. Just like the part and parcel of my body has got some duty. The eyes, his duty is to see. The ear, his duty is to hear. So every part of duty, even within, without. So we, being servant, eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, our only duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. And because we are not doing that, therefore we are unhappy.

*So that duty is called dharma. It is not a kind of faith. It is the constitutional position. You must have to serve. If you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will have to serve māyā. There are two things: God or Satan. So similarly, God is Kṛṣṇa, and Satan is māyā. So if you refuse to serve God, then you have to serve Satan. That's all. You cannot become master. This is called dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. And, as it is said here, vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Veda, the knowledge, the law or the order, that order is from God. Therefore there is no difference between the Vedas and Nārāyaṇa. Because Nārāyaṇa or God is absolute, He personally and His word, it is the same thing. And in the material experience also we see that the government and the government law is the same thing. You cannot say that the government law is different from government. This is material example. And spiritual is still more perfect. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. In other words, that you cannot make any law. The government can make law. Similarly, you cannot manufacture any religion. Nārāyaṇa sākṣāt. Nārāyaṇa, God, He can make. You cannot make at your home, "I have manufactured a type of religion." No. That you cannot do. Nowadays this is going on. Yata mata tata patha: "You can manufacture your own religion." This is going on. "You are okay, I am okay." "I manufacture my religion. You manufacture your religion. Don't fight. Let us become brother." This is going on. So how you can be brother? The dog remains a dog. How they can become brother? It is not possible. Therefore so many religious systems, they are all rascaldom. One religion: that is the order of God. That is religion. If you want one religion, then you must know who is God and you must abide by the order of God. That is religion, very simple thing. You cannot manufacture, concoction. That is not religion. Therefore Bhāgavata, it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ: "All these cheating type of religion is rejected, kicked out from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." What is that religion there? Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi: "The Supreme Truth, the Absolute Truth, we are accepting." This is religion.

*So the Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted in the Vedas. That is... Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. From Vedic knowledge, you get all knowledge. So if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as God, that is also your mistake. You do not know God, but here Kṛṣṇa presents Himself as God, and He is accepted by authorities. So you have to accept. If you say that "I don't accept Kṛṣṇa," then you have to present somebody else if you know God. And if you say that "I do not know what is God," then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa. Because you do not know. Here the authority says, "Kṛṣṇa is God." So you have to accept that. You cannot deny it. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Kṛṣṇa means Nārāyaṇa. Therefore it is said, vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Therefore knowledge or religion means what is ordained, what is described by the words of Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa.

*Then the next question will be: "Then how Nārāyaṇa learned the Vedas or knowledge?" Because we have got experience. We receive knowledge from others. So this question may be raised. Therefore it is said, sākṣāt svayambhūḥ. He does not require. That is God. All of us, we require knowledge by somebody, guru. But Kṛṣṇa does not require any guru, although when He comes, He accepts guru just to teach us. Caitanya Mahāprabhu had guru, Kṛṣṇa has also guru, because when They incarnate, They play just like ordinary man. But the knowledge is self*-sufficient. The example is given like this: Just like the cloud. Cloud takes water from the sea, and he pours it down, and again the water goes down to the sea. So all knowledge comes from Kṛṣṇa, but when Kṛṣṇa appears, He takes the same knowledge from through the guru. Just try to understand. The knowledge is just like the sea, full knowledge, but it distributes the water on the land. Again the water goes down. Similarly, anyone who becomes Kṛṣṇa's guru or Caitanya Mahāprabhu's guru, they take knowledge from him, but superficially Kṛṣṇa accepts guru. He has no guru. Svayambhū. Therefore it is called svayambhū. Svayambhū. Svayambhūr iti śuśruma. Kṛṣṇa has no cause. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. Anādir ādir govindaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvara [Bs. 5.1], the Supreme Lord, is Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, anādi. He has no source of knowledge. That is called svayambhū.

*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning also, it is described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1], abhijñaḥ. Now, God created this world. Everyone knows, those who are religious, either Hindu, Muslim, Christian, that God has created. Now, creation means He must be very expert. You do not see that this cosmic manifestation, the earth, water, air, fire, so nicely arranged, and they are being mixed up and so many other things are happening. Everything is perfectly, perfectly being done. So this perfect knowledge, how Kṛṣṇa or God received? Wherefrom He got this perfect knowledge? That is the difference between our knowledge and Kṛṣṇa's knowledge, God's knowledge. That is called abhijña: He knows everything perfectly, without going to anyone else. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. This is the Vedic statement, that "The Absolute Truth is so perfect, He has got so many potencies, that everything is being done so perfectly." Just like one artist. If he wants to paint one picture, one flower, he has to give his attention is so many ways. He has to move the brush in such a way and take this color, different colors. It requires so many artistic sense and so much good sense, so many things. It does not come. One who is not artist, not painter, he cannot paint. So do you think this flower which is coming out daily in your garden in different colors and different smell and flavor, they are being done without any artistic sense? This is nonsense. There is sense. There is God's potency. But parāsya śaktiḥ, His senses, His knowledge, is so perfect that it is coming automatically, and we foolish people, we think that nature is producing. No, nature is the instrument, just like the brush, but the brain is God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These rascal scientists, they do not know that. They deny God.

*So therefore veda*-praṇihito dharmaḥ. So how God is working, how His brush is moving, how the things are coming out so nicely, how much great brain He has got... Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat. Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no more good brain than Me." He says. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. The prakṛti, nature, is instrument. Nature is not brain. Just like nowadays you have got very complicated machine, computer. The computer machine is not brain; *the man who is pushing the buttons, he has got the brain. So we have to learn like that. Therefore we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge directly in the Bhagavad*-gītā. So if you read and accept it as it is without any foolishness, then you become perfectly in knowledge.

Thank you very much. (end)



760606SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.40

-

Los Angeles, June 6, 1976



*Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "The Yamadūtas replied: That which is prescribed in the Vedas constitutes dharma, the religious principles, and the opposite of that is irreligion. The Vedas are directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, and are self*-born. This we have heard from Yamarāja."



Prabhupāda:



yamadūtā ūcuḥ

*veda*-praṇihito dharmo

*hy adharmas tad*-viparayaḥ

vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt

svayambhūr iti śuśruma

[SB 6.1.40]



*So here is explanation by the Yamadūtas. The Yamadūtas were not very advanced so far their position was there. They were very odd*-looking and not to be supposed very civilized-uneducated-but how they are explaining about dharma? Because the challenge was that "If you are the servants of Dharmarāja, then explain what is dharma." It doesn't matter whether a man is civilized or uncivilized or good-looking or bad-looking, but if he has got proper guide, then he can speak the right thing. This is the ... Yamarāja ūcuḥ. They're not manufacturing anything. They're saying iti śuśruma. Iti śuśruma, "We have heard it from our master." This is knowledge. They are not expected to manufacture something speculative. They are neither educated nor civilized nor... Nothing of the sort. But they are talking of the source of religion, how they have heard it from the authority, Yamarāja. Yamarāja is authority. In the śāstra it is said that,



tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayor vibhinnā

nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam

dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ

mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.186]



So dharma, the path of religiosity, is very confidential. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. Then how I shall accept what is dharma, what is religion? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. You just follow the footsteps of authorized persons. Then you understand what is dharma. You cannot manufacture. So, here is the same system, the Vedic system is the same. Either you hear from the direct *Vedas* or scriptures following the *Vedas*.



So here the Yamadūtas says that dharma means what is spoken or directed in the *Vedas*. And what is Veda? Veda nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Veda means God Himself. Just like... We can understand very easily. Just like the king and the king's law. What king has said, that this should be done like this, keep to the right, king or government, whatever it may be, authority... So that is Veda. What is... Just like the law means what the government says. You cannot manufacture law. Similarly, veda nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. What Nārāyaṇa says, that is Veda. There is no other authority. And one who follows the Nārāyaṇa, he is also authority. Śaṅkarācārya says, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa is transcendental. He's not anybody of this material world. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. Avyaktāt anasambhavaḥ. Avyakta. The cosmic manifestation, this is called vyakta, and when it is not manifested, it is called avyakta. Just like a house is manifestation of the five elements: earth, water, air, fire. So earth, water is there already, but that is not manifested as the house. But the same combination, it becomes a house, big skyscraper building. This is difference between vyakta and avyakta. Avyakta means the whole material energy, when it is not manifested, that is called avyakta; and when it is manifested it is called vyakta. Nārāyaṇa paro 'vyaktāt. That means Nārāyaṇa is not of this material world. God is nothing of this material world. He's transcendental. Para, nārāyaṇa paro 'vyaktāt. Para means superior, transcendental.

*So Veda, here it is said that vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. But Nārāyaṇa is nothing of this material world. Similarly, Veda is nothing of this material world. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. So you cannot... Therefore Vedic authority is so evidential... Because it is not manufactured by any material person. It is... Nārāyaṇa, or God God created this world. So God was existing before this creation, and Veda means before the creation, the laws and the words which were existing, that is Veda. Somebody may argue that "This is written by some scholar or some learned person." No, Veda is not like that. Veda is coming directly from Nārāyaṇa, and Nārāyaṇa means God. God was existing before the creation. Because (God) created, therefore God existed before the creation, so whatever we get out of this created world, that is not Veda. If some person, great philosopher of this material world, he thinks, he says "I believe," and he writes something, that is nonsense. That is not Veda. Because he is a created being, and as created being he has got four defects. The most important defect is that his senses are imperfect. Therefore by sense perception, by so*-called mental speculation, whatever he creates, that is defective. That is not perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is there, Veda, because Vedas existed before the creation. And whatever there is within the creation, they're imperfect. Therefore it is clearly said that vedo nārāyaṇa sākṣāt. As Nārāyaṇa is beyond this created, manifested cosmic manifestation, similarly Vedas also are like that. Don't think it is written by... It is called therefore apauruṣeya. Apauruṣeya means it is not written by any mundane creature. Brahma, he is the supreme creature within... No. It is said that he is not created. Tene brahma hṛdā ya, hṛdā ya ādi kavaye. He was instructed the Vedic lessons by Nārāyaṇa, or Kṛṣṇa. He did not manufacture it. So Vedas means coming from directly Nārāyaṇa, not that Brahmā has created. Brahmā has Vedas in his hand, but he has received it from Nārāyaṇa. That is the information we get. And... So Brahmā instructed his sons. Then they got the knowledge. The sons instructed to the grandsons. In this way, Vedic knowledge is coming. Therefore it is called paramparā, disciplic succession. We don't manufacture. We receive the knowledge, the perfect knowledge by disciplic succession, beginning from Nārāyaṇa.

*So whatever knowledge we are getting from the śāstras in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not manufactured by man. It is not man*-made knowledge. The knowledge was received by, through, knowledge was imparted or instructed by Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā received it, and from Brahma, Nārada received it. From Nārada, Vyāsadeva received it, and Vyāsadeva is writing this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje [SB 1.7.6]. Great learned sages, saintly persons, they're always thinking how the people will be happy Vaisvana. Para duḥkha-duḥkhi: he is always unhappy for unhappiness of the people in general, public. That is Vaiṣṇava. Para duḥkha-duḥkhi. Just like in the Western country Lord Jesus Christ, he was unhappy for others. So that is the business of devotee, God's son or God's devotee. That is the duty, that people are suffering on account of proper knowledge, and the most grievous ignorance is without any knowledge of God. That is the most dangerous ignorance. Because human life is meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. But they do not care to understand God. Then animal life: "Where is food, where is sex, where is apartment, and where is defense force?" this is going on.

*Therefore the challenge was that "Now explain what is dharma." So they're explaining. Mind that. They are not educated themselves, but their education is by hearing from the authority. Iti śuśruma. This is real education. Therefore Vedas' another name is śruti. Śruti means the knowledge which you receive by hearing, not by your so*-called eyes or tongue. No. The tongue, you can chant what you hear. Therefore our beginning of knowledge is śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Not that go to some technical college and learn it. This is also technical, transcendental technical, but the technique is first of all hear. This is technique. Not take a hammer and understood. This is hearing. This technology begins by hearing. Just like you have come here kindly and hearing. This is the technology, beginning of transcendental knowledge or spiritual knowledge. So here also these Yamadūtas said, "We have heard it from the authority." That is perfection. Go to the authority and hear from him the real knowledge. Then you become perfect in knowledge. Actually, we imitate, we also go to a school, college, hear from the professor, teachers. That is the process anywhere, either transcendental or material knowledge. The hearing is most important thing. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended this hearing very important in transcendental knowledge especially. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir: if you know to know God, that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's recommendation, he's recommending from the śāstra. He doesn't recommend anything, "I think," "I believe," "Perhaps." No, not this nonsense. You may... You are rascal. What is the value of your belief? No. It is the... Here is the knowledge. Iti śuśruma, "We have heard it from authority." This is knowledge.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was talking with Rāmānanda Raya, how to cultivate spiritual knowledge, how to know the ultimate goal of life, sādhya sādhana, what is the aim of life and what is the process to approach the aim of life... This was the talk between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Rāmānanda Raya began with varṇāśrama dharma, the institution of four orders of social and four orders of spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, "It is not very important nowadays." Yes, eho bāhya, āge kahe āra, "If you know something more, better than this..." Then he... Karma*-tyāga, sannyāsa, so many, step by step, he said, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu denied, "Yes, it is right, but it is not very important." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said..., uh, Rāmānanda Rāya said, quoting from the Vedas, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtāṁ (sthāne sthitāḥ) śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṇ-manobhir (ye) prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. "If you want to know who is God, what is God, then give up your, this speculative endeavor." Jñāne prayāsam. Prayāsa means endeavor: "May be like this," "Perhaps like this." No. You give up this habit. Jñane prayāsam udapāsya, give up this bad habit. Then? How? Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva: "Just become humble and meek. Don't declare yourself a great philosopher or great learned scholar and..." No. That is not the process. "Now I am a learned scholar, I can discover God, I can manufacture God." No. Give up this bad habit. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya-be humble. If you know to know God, then be humble. In the Bible also it is said, "God is for the meek and the humble," not for the impudent.

*So jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Then what will I be I become humble? Yes? Then what is my next duty? San*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. You just try to hear from the saintly person, devotee. San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Then what will be the result? Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. This hearing, becoming humble and meek... And if we hear from the devotee who is actually self-realized, one who has seen God through the śāstra, if you hear from him... And never mind what you are. You may be a brāhmaṇa, you may be kṣatriya, you may be śūdra, you may be sannyāsī, you may be so on, so on, you may be American, you may be Indian, whatever you may be, that doesn't matter. Remain in your place. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Simply hear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ. Then one day, what will be the result? Now God is unconquerable, nobody can conquer, you'll be conquered. Simply by hearing, He'll be... This is the process. Therefore he says śuśruma, humble and meek and hear. Then you'll understand God. Then you'll understand what is religion, then you'll understand everything. Not only religion and God, but everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply know God or Kṛṣṇa, then everything you know. Just like we are sometimes challenging big, big philosophers, big, big scientists, big, big psychologists, and so on, so on. What is the strength? Because we have learned something about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you have learned what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, then you learn everything. This is knowledge.

*Therefore they say. They are, according to their description, third class, fourth class, not even human beings, these Yamadūtas. And they are explaining about dharma. Why? Śuśruma: "From the right source we have heard it." And whatever they're speaking, correct. Veda*-praṇihito dharma. What is ordered in the Vedas, that is dharma, that is religion. And what is Vedas? Vedo nārāyaṇa sākṣāt. Absolute. Nārāyaṇa, spiritual world, absolute. Nonduality. Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa's words are the same. There is no difference. Just like we are reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why we're interested? Because Bhagavad-gītā and the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa, they are identical. So you cannot change the words of Bhagavad-gītā. That is foolishness. Anyone who changes the orders and the words of Bhagavad-gītā, they are rascal, they'll not get any benefit. Because you cannot correct Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa says or God says. That is not in your power. So these rascals, they want to interpret, "This is like this, this is this, I think it is this." No. Kṛṣṇa did not leave for you, for your thinking rascally. No. Kṛṣṇa is completely learned. Whatever He has said, it is perfectly in order. You cannot change.

So in this way, we have to hear the right thing from the right person. Then the question will be, "Who is the right person?" So if we cannot select the right person... Right person is paramparā, one who is following the paramparā, he is the right person. Even though you cannot understand actually who is... The śāstra says these are right persons. Who?

svayaṁbhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



This is the statement of Yamarāja, that "I am also considered as one of the authorities," vayam. So here the Yamadūtas say, "We have heard it from our master, Yamarāja; therefore whatever he said is authoritative."



Thank you very much. (end)



760607SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.41

-

Los Angeles, June 7, 1976



*Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "The supreme cause of all causes, Nārāyaṇa, is situated in His own abode in the spiritual world, but nevertheless He controls the entire cosmic manifestation according to the three modes of material nature*-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. In this way all living entities are awarded different qualities, different names such as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya, different duties according to the varṇāśrama institution, and different forms. Thus Nārāyaṇa is the cause of the entire cosmic manifestation."



Prabhupāda:



*yena sva*-dhāmny amī bhāvā

*rajaḥ*-sattva-tamomayāḥ

*guṇa*-nāma-kriyā-rūpair

*vibhāvyante yathā*-tatham

[SB 6.1.41]



So supreme controller is Nārāyaṇa, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also explains... Here in the śāstra, we understand that Nārāyaṇa is the supreme controller. In many other places the same thing is explained.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So Kṛṣṇa explains in the Bhagavad*-gītā: ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. So Nārāyaṇa... In the Vedic mantra also, the same thing: eko nārāyaṇa āsīt. In the beginning, Nārāyaṇa was there. So Nārāyaṇa is not alone. When you say the king is coming, it does not mean that king is coming alone. King is coming with his ministers, with his secretaries, with his military forces, bodyguards, many thousands. Similarly, when we speak eko nārāyaṇa āsīt, nārāyaṇa paraḥ avyaktāt, it does not mean that Nārāyaṇa is alone. Nārāyaṇa is always... If a king can be surrounded by so many officers and ministers, and Nārāyaṇa is the supreme king, so how He is surrounded by paraphernalia we can just think over.



*So Nārāyaṇa*-dhāma, the Vaikuṇṭha-dhāma ... There are millions and millions of Vaikuṇṭha-dhāmas in the spiritual world. As we see in this material world. And in each planet Nārāyaṇa is there in different forms. That is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Different forms means Nārāyaṇa has the same form, four hands with four symbolic weapons, simply changing-śaṅkha, cakra, gadā, padma; *gadā, cakra, śaṅkha, padma*-like that. These things are explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So in the Vaikuṇṭha, the spiritual world, Nārāyaṇa is there. And above these Vaikuṇṭha planets there is the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*There is the Goloka Vṛndāvana, the description is there. There are also trees, there are also animals. And Kṛṣṇa is there. And He is being served by lakṣmīs, the gopīs. Sahasra-śata*-sambhrama-sevyamānam. With great respect they are serving. These descriptions are there. There, trees are desire trees. Whatever you want from that tree, you'll get. The cows are surabhī cows, means you can draw milk as many times as you like and as much as you like. Surabhīr abhipālayantam.

*So when we speak of Vṛndāvana, it is not imagination. In the śāstra, there is description, how Kṛṣṇa is there, what He is doing. Especially it is mentioned: surabhīr abhipālayantam. Kṛṣṇa has got this hobby. Just like our hobby*-dog-abhipālayantam. We keep, every one of us, especially in the Western countries, a dog. So why not Kṛṣṇa keeping so many cows? What is the difficulty for Him? So He, intentionally, He becomes a cowherd boy. That is His pleasure. Just like here, we, a minute particle of God, we have got so many hobbies. So He has ... Because nothing can be present here without being in Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. Whatever is there in this material world, bad or good, similar things are there in the spiritual world. The difference is here everything, bad, and there everything, good. That is the difference. Here we have made bad and good; *it has no meaning. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kaja, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he has explained the conception of bad and good in this material world. He says, 'dvaite bhadrābhadra-(jñāna,) sakale sama 'ei bhāla, ei manda', sab mano-dharma. In the world of duality... This is the world of duality. So the absolute... There is absolute world. That is spiritual world. But here there is duality, bad and good. You cannot understand bad without having some conception of good, and you cannot understand good without having some conception of bad. You require the opposite. So in the spiritual world, this duality conception is absent. Everything is absolute. We have to understand this theoretically at the present moment. But there, everything is cintāmaṇi. Everything is alive, spiritual.

*So Nārāyaṇa's place is there, sa dhāmani. That is His own abode. This is also Nārāyaṇa's abode, this material world. Just like king. King's kingdom is very widespread, but still, he has got a palace. That is sa dhāmani. Everywhere his property, government property, but still there is a government house, particular. Similarly, everything belongs to God, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1], everything. Everything, God's property. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor. But still He has got His own abode. That is Goloka Vṛndāvana. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto [Bs. 5.37]. That is God. He's always there. He hasn't got to go out for some business. No. He hasn't got to work for maintaining His establishment. No. He is complete, and He's staying there. Just like Kṛṣṇa... It is said in the śāstra: vṛndāvanaṁ parityaja na padam ekaṁ gacchati. Kṛṣṇa never leaves Vṛndāvana. He doesn't go anywhere. He's always existing there. But still, He's everywhere. That is His inconceivable potency. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto. We are limited. I am sitting here; *I'm not in my apartment. But Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Kṛṣṇa is in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana*-He doesn't leave that place any moment-but you'll find Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto [Bs. 5.37]. Don't think that "Kṛṣṇa is not here." Kṛṣṇa is here also. You see, personally, Kṛṣṇa is present here. Don't think that it is not Kṛṣṇa, it is some stone statue. No. He's Kṛṣṇa. But because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa, He's appearing just that you may see. Because you cannot see without stone and wood. Therefore it is called arca-vigraha, arca-avatāra. Arca-avatāra.

*Therefore: arcye viṣṇau śilā*-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ nārakī. Forbidden, that never think the vigrahaḥ, the form of the Lord, as stone or wood. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr. One who thinks like that..., guruṣu nara-matir, and the spiritual master as ordinary human being. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ: Vaiṣṇava, who has become a devotee, to accept him belonging to some caste or nation or some... No. He doesn't belong to anything... Never to think that's he's American Vaiṣṇava, he's Indian Vaiṣṇava, he's brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava, he's kṣatriya... No. This is jāti-buddhiḥ, classification. Vaiṣṇava does not belong to any jāti. He belongs to Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Therefore practically you can see the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, some of them are Indians, some of them are Europeans, some of them are Englishmen, some of them are black, some of them are white, some of them are brāhmaṇas, some of them are Hindus, but they do not think anymore that "I belong to this category." No. No. Or otherwise they could not work. Every one of them completely aware that "We are all Kṛṣṇa's servants." Similarly, guru is not ordinary human being. Guruṣu nara-matir. Guru is not ordinary human being. Ordinary human being cannot preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe kṛṣṇa nāma pracāra. So anyone who is preaching, he cannot be considered as ordinary human being. Even though Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has explained this, that why not ordinary being? His son is calling him "father," or his relatives, they're taking him as ordinary. So Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says still he is not ordinary human being. Why? Because he is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, guruṣu nara-matir, and śrī viṣṇu-padatīrthau. The... Just like Ganges water, Yamunā water, to think of ordinary water, these are forbidden.

*So Kṛṣṇa, guṇa nāma*-rūpair vibhāyvante yathā-tatham. He has innumerable means and innumerable forms, according to the necessity. Unlimited forms: Nārāyaṇa, Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, thousands and thousands of names. But He's situated in His own place, and He's governing the whole creation. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. That is the Vedic mantra. Everything is being controlled by Him. How He is controlling, how He is witness, that will be explained in the next verse.

sūryo 'gniḥ khaṁ marud devaḥ

somaḥ sandhyā ahanī diśaḥ

kaṁ kuḥ svayaṁ dharma iti

hy ete daihyasya sākṣiṇaḥ



*This will be explained, next verse, how He is controlling, how things are managed. We can see practically that universal affairs, how things are being managed. Exactly in the right time, the sun is rising, the moon is rising, and they're working exactly to the time. In this season, the sun will stay during daytime so many hours. Exactly we find. Not that this year he's staying from six to six, and next year he's not appearing. No. There is no question of accidents. The same date, same month, and the same appearance of the sun and the moon. Everything. And still we say "There is no God," "God is dead," "There is no controller." This is foolishness. Mūḍha. The mūḍhas, the asses... Mūḍha means asses, one who has no knowledge. It is commonsense affair. That if everything is going on so nicely, how I can think there is no controller? In your house, in your office, if everything goes very nicely, systematically, there is the director, there is the manager, superintendent, and everything is going nice, how, without these things, how the whole universal affair can go so nicely? That is not accidental, that there was a chunk and immediately it became a this and that. No. There was no accident. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. There is no question of accidents. Kṛṣṇa says, "Under My supervision, everything is going on."



*So Nārāyaṇa, or Kṛṣṇa, He's controlling everything. And this material world is made of three modes of material nature: sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. The Bhagavad-gītā also says the same thing. Prakṛteḥ, this material nature, is working under three modes of material nature-sattva-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa. In the rajo-guṇa, the material world is created. In sattva-guṇa, the material world is maintained. And in tamo-guṇa, this material world is dissolved, or annihilated. This is the way, going on. So sattva-guṇa, maintenance, in charge is Viṣṇu Himself. Without Viṣṇu, nobody can maintain. Just like one contractor, he can manufacture a very big skyscraper building, but to maintain it, it requires another management, how to manage and maintain. And dissolution, anyone can break this big skyscraper. These three things are going on. So the maintenance in charge is Nārāyaṇa, His expansion, Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu is supplying all the needs of our... We are so many living entities, innumerable, but Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, He is supplying all our needs. Just like father, he supplies the needs of the family, children. Similarly, Viṣṇu is maintaining. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So many different varieties of living entities and they have got different demands, different necessities, everything is supplied by Viṣṇu. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is God.

*So we cannot declare independence. That is not possible. There is no independence. We are completely dependent on Viṣṇu. There is no doubt about it. You cannot manufacture your necessities, all the necessities. You can manufacture some motorcar or some needle or this or that, but you cannot manufacture the primary necessities of life. That is not possible. When there is scarcity of food, you cannot manufacture in your factory. That is not possible. That you have to receive from Viṣṇu, from God. That, that is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ [Bg. 3.14]. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Anna means food grains. Or even you take that "My anna, my food, is animal." That's all right, either you eat animal or vegetable or food grains, it is supplied by God. You cannot manufacture it. Suppose I am eating vegetables, you are eating meat. But meat you cannot manufacture, a vegetable also I may not manufacture. That is supplied by God. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Whatever our necessities are there, it is supplied by God, Kṛṣṇa. So He advises... This world, although Kṛṣṇa supplies everything, but still, you have to work. You have to work. This material world means karma-samjñaḥ. Without working, you cannot live. You have to work. There is a verse in the Bhagavad-gītā: śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. Do not stop working. Some foolish people say that we are not working. We are working for Kṛṣṇa. It is not that we are not working. Working is necessary here. But the difference is a bhakta is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, and nondevotees are working under the direction of māyā. That is the difference. Therefore bhakti and ordinary work, karmīs, it looks similar, similar, that these men, they are also working, they're also cooking, they're also going to the Press, they're also typing. They're this... So what is the difference between bhakti and karma? The difference is that we are working for Kṛṣṇa and others are working for māyā. That is difference.

*So nirbandha*-kṛṣṇa-sambhandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Working is not stopped. Our Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, they retired from their ministerial service, they went to Vṛndāvana, but the work increased. When they were ministers they were sleeping thirteen hours, but when they went to Vṛndāvana, they had not time to sleep even for two hours. That is Vṛndāvana life. That is Vṛndāvana life. They had no time. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. These are the description about the Gosvāmīs that, by the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they retired from ministerial job. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. Maṇḍala-pati means very, very big men in society. Minister, his business was with big, big man. Who can see the minister? The zamindar, the big businessmen. So he gave up that association. Then what he became? Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. He took up a small loincloth. You have seen the picture of Gosvāmīs. Why? Just to show compassion and mercy to the whole world who are suffering. So how much business he increased? He was minister of a state. Now he has to do good to the whole world. How much responsibility it is. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. They had to establish the real purpose of religion-sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. So presented so many books so that they may understand what is the meaning of religion. Nānā-śāstra. Nānā means varieties of śāstra. Vicāraṇaika-after deliberation... You'll find, therefore, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu or any book written by the Gosvāmīs, all giving reference from the śāstras. Nānā-śāstra vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau.

*So Vaiṣṇava, the servant of Nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati*-they are not afraid to go anywhere for the service of Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati. Because Nārāyaṇa has got so many widespread government, and Nārāyaṇa's servants, nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, they have to go everywhere. Nārāyaṇa parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati. They are not afraid, "No, I'll have to go to such distant place, no friend, no money. How shall I go?" No. Nārāyaṇa is there. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, na bibhyati-he's not afraid of. "Whether I'm going to die or live, it doesn't matter. I must go there. It is the order of Nārāyaṇa." This is devotee.

*nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

*svargāpavarga*-narakeṣv

*api tulyārtha*-darśinaḥ

[SB 6.17.28]



Nārāyaṇa may order, "Go to hell and preach." "Yes." Tulyārtha. "Then if You send me in heaven or hell, I don't mind."



Thank you very much. (end)



701223SB.SUR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.41-42

-

Surat, December 23, 1970



Prabhupāda: ...means Vedic injunction, and Vedic injunction means directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the sum and substance. Dharma means approved by the *Vedas*. You cannot manufacture dharma, "This dharma, that dharma." No. It must be approved by the Vedic injunction. And next? How this material world is created by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Every religion accepts this: God created this material world.



yena svadhāmny amī bhāvā

*rajaḥ*-sattva-tamomayāḥ

*guṇa*-nāma-kriyā-rūpair

*vibhāvyante yathā*-tatham

[SB 6.1.41]



*The difference between material world and spiritual world is that here in this material world these three qualities are acting. Therefore we find so many different varieties of men. There are three qualities: the quality of goodness, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance-sattva, rajas, tamas. Now, these qualities, again mixed up, they create several varieties of... Just like three multiplied by three becomes nine. Nine multiplied by nine becomes eighty-one. Eighty-one multiplied by eighty-one, it becomes so many varieties. Expert color men, they take three colors-that blue, red, and yellow*-and mixes the color, and varieties of color is manufactured. Similarly, these three guṇas, originally they are coming from the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā that the three qualities are also emanated or generated from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And the three qualities are represented by Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. The quality of goodness is represented by Viṣṇu, the quality of passion is represented by Brahmā, and the quality of darkness is represented by Lord Śiva. By the quality of goodness this whole material world is maintained, and by the quality of passion the whole material world is created, and by the quality of ignorance the whole material world is again annihilated. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. The nature of this material world is that it becomes manifest at a certain time and again it disappears. That is the difference between material world and spiritual world. Spiritual world is eternal. There is no question of occasional appearance and occasional disappearance. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find the description that "There is another nature, bhāva." Bhāva means... Svabhāva, bhāva, these are the Sanskrit terms of the nature. So that nature is vyaktāvyakta. This nature is vyakta and avyakta, manifest and nonmanifest. So, and above this, beyond this manifested and nonmanifest material nature, there is another, spiritual nature, which is sanātana. Sanātana means eternal. And it is also stated, yasmin sarveṣu api naśyatsu na vinaśyate: "When everything is annihilated, that sanātana nature is not annihilated. That sanātana nature remains as it is." That is the spiritual nature and material nature.

*So these three qualities... As from Viṣṇu, Brahmā is generated, and from Brahmā, Lord Śiva is generated, so original cause is Viṣṇu. And Viṣṇu's cause is Kṛṣṇa. Yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said ,

*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*The Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu, the Viṣṇu lying in the Causal Ocean of material creation, so He is in the nature of sleeping, ananta. And He is breathing. So yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya. This breathing, exhaling and inhaling, that is going on. So that exhaling and inhaling is the duration of this material existence. When Viṣṇu exhales, whole creation takes place. And when He inhales, the whole creation again is... Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikām. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Then it again enters into the nature of the Supreme." So with the exhaling of breathing, innumerable universes are being generated. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam atha. Niśvasita-kāla, that period. Now, imagine what is that period. Jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. And also from the holes of the body, many universes are coming out. Such Viṣṇu, the Brahma-saṁhitā says, yasya iha kalā-viśeṣaḥ, such Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, He is also a plenary portion of Govinda. Just imagine what is Govinda. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā [Bs. 5.48]. That is also confirmed by Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā: ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. When Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is Your opulence?" then He is describing the opulence, and in that opulence He concludes that "There is no necessity of describing My opulence very much. You simply understand that the whole material creation is existing in one fourth of My energy." So that is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. We have to understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



*So here it is also said that yena svadhāmni bhāvāḥ. The svadhāmni bhāvāḥ. This goodness, this passion, this mode, they are also represented in the spiritual world. They are also represented in the spiritual world, svadhāmni bhāvāḥ, but a perverted reflection is represented here only. Everything is there. Otherwise, there cannot be any creation. The Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Everything, whatever we see, it has got a source of generation, and that is Brahman, Absolute Truth. So these guṇas, these material guṇas, they are also generated from the Absolute Truth. That is explained in Bhagavad*-gītā also. But here everything is perverted reflection. Therefore we see in a different way it is represented. Guṇa-nāma-kriyā-rūpair vibhāvyante yathā-tatham. And those qualities, guṇa-nāma, guṇa-nāma-kriyā-rūpaiḥ, when the qualities begin to act, they are represented in different varieties, these qualities. These qualities of goodness, passion, and ignorance, when they are interacted, they represent in different varieties of representation. Just like when there is quality of goodness, then it is brahmanism. That is the representation of the quality of goodness. And when the quality of passion is represented, that is the quality of kṣatriya. And when the quality of ignorance is represented, that is the presentation of the śūdras. And mixed-up quality of ignorance and passion, that is vaiśya. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "These four qualitative representation, brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya..."

*So when it is creation by the Supreme Lord, it is not that the brāhmaṇas are to be found only in India. That is another wrong conclusion. Because brāhmaṇas means representation of the quality of goodness. Anywhere you find the quality of goodness, that is brahmanism. So these American, European boys, when they have developed their quality of goodness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are brāhmaṇas. If they are considered as mlecchas and yavanas, that is nārakīya-buddhi, hellish consideration. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If anyone considers a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord, in the categorical estimation of birth, then that is hellish consideration. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Just like here we are worshiping Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa Deity. You have all come here early in the morning, and... So does it mean that you are all fools? You have come to see a brass idol is being worshiped here? So anyone who considers the Deity as arcye śilā-dhīḥ, made of stone, made of brass, made of wood, that is nārakī-buddhiḥ. Arcye śilā-dhīḥ. Śilā. Śilā means stone. So those who are unaware of the Vedic knowledge, they consider that this is idol worship. It is not idol worship. It is directly worshiping the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Lord has, by His mercy, descended to accept your service. If you want to dress the Supreme Lord, if you take His virāḍ-rūpa, universal form, where is your cloth and how you can dress? Eh? You haven't got so much cloth. In spite of having so many mills, you cannot dress the virāṭ form. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, by His omnipotency, He becomes a smaller just to be handled by you. That is His mercy. Not that... Just like Kṛṣṇa became a small child of Yaśodā. That does not mean Kṛṣṇa has diminished in His power. He immediately showed. When there was attempt to kill Him by the Pūtanā, immediately He showed His Godly power. So we have to study like that, that God in any circumstances is God. God is never made. Any circumstances, God is God. God... Not that by meditation, pressing your nose, you become God. No. That is not God. God is God. So all the...

Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātra*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*"Their conception of God or devotional service to God without reference to the Vedas, śruti and smṛti, and the purāṇas," śruti-smṛti-purāṇa, pañcarātra-vidhi, "the Nārada-pañcarātra, these regulative principles, without reference to these regulative principles, if one, anyone, claims that he has become a devotee of the Lord, it is simply disturbance." It is simply disturbance. One cannot become a bona fide devotee without being trained up under the regulative principles of śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātra-vidhi. Rūpa Gosvāmī directly says in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu that "Without reference"*-that means without being trained up by a bona fide spiritual master-"if one poses that he has become a devotee, he simply creates disturbance. That's all." That is being done. That is being done. We have got so many so-called devotees, but without any reference to the authoritative scripture; *therefore we are creating disturbance. Here it is said that guṇa*-nāma, guṇa-nāma-kriyā-rūpaiḥ. Guṇa-nāma-kriyā-rūpair vibhāvyante yathā-tatham.



Then again says,

sūryo 'gniḥ khaṁ marud devaḥ

somaḥ sandhyāhanī diśaḥ

kaṁ kuḥ svayaṁ dharma iti

hy ete daihyasya sākṣiṇaḥ

[SB 6.1.42]



*Now we are acting under the influence of different guṇas. Therefore we find the brahminical class of men, the kṣatriya class of men, the vaiśya class of men, the śūdra class of men. That is natural. Natural. A śūdra class of man, his behavior, and a brāhmaṇa class of man, his behavior, is different. And Nārada Muni says, and Bhāgavata also says, that we have to see the symptoms, how one is acting. Yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam. Varṇa, this catur*-varṇa-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-there are symptoms. By symptoms... Just like a physician diagnoses the disease by the symptoms of the disease, similarly, we have to accept one as brāhmaṇa by the symptoms of his behavior, not by birth. It is not said in the Bhagavad-gītā or any śāstra. That is going on in India at the present moment. By birthright one is claiming "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya." That is the cause of falldown of India's civilization. Without any qualities they are claiming, and it is passing on. Here, in every śāstra, the Nārada-pañcarātra, Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā, everywhere... It is said, yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktam. Yasya: the varṇasya, of the varṇa, of the class, there are symptoms.



*Just like in Bhagavad*-gītā you will find, satyaṁ śamaḥ śaucam ārjavaṁ titikṣā, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. By nature a brāhmaṇa will be truthful. Satyaṁ śamaḥ. He will be controlling of the senses, controlling the mind, very cleansed, śaucam. Satyaṁ śaucaṁ śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā, tolerant. Even in the severest type of danger, he is never disturbed. Tolerant. Satyaṁ śamaḥ damaḥ śaucam ārjavam, and simplicity; jñānam, full of knowledge; and vijñānam, practical application in life; *āstikyam, firm faith in the scripture and Kṛṣṇa-these are the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Similarly, the kṣatriyas' qualification*-they want to rule over. A kṣatriya never goes away from fighting. He is never afraid of fighting. He never, I mean to say, he is afraid of the challenge of the other party. Just like Jarāsandha. Jarāsandha was a kṣatriya, and he was... At the same time, a kṣatriya's quality is charitable. Formerly the kings, they would distribute! money like anything. They would collect money by taxing, but at the same time, they would distribute. The example is given in the case of Mahārāja Daśaratha, that he was exacting taxes just like the sunshine exacts water from the sea, and it turns into cloud and it distributes all over the planet. Similarly, the kṣatriya's duty is to collect... Government's duty is to collect tax, heavily tax. But the money should be distributed to all the citizens by different way. That is the way, dāna-bhāva-jam, not that I collect tax and I engage it in my sense gratification; I employ three hundred prostitutes for dancing before me. These are... This is the cause of falling down of monarchy system. Therefore people are in democracy. And the democracy is also failure. Every democratic member has become another debauchee. So therefore it is coming down to Communism, dictatorship. You see? So in this way things are changing. But actually, if they follow the symptoms of a kṣatriya, then it is good for the kṣatriya king and the citizens.

*But they are not following. Therefore śāstra says that the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... If one is... Kṛṣi*-vāṇijyam, go-rakṣya. That is the symptom of the vaiśya. As the kṣatriyas are entrusted to protect the human beings, the vaiśya is expected to protect the cows. Unfortunately, they are not doing that. There is no kṣatriya; there is no brāhmaṇa; *there is no vaiśya. Therefore the śāstra says, kalau śūdra*-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga there is only śūdras." There is no more brāhmaṇa. Of course, there is, not "no more," but very minor quantity, very... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu [Bg. 7.3]. Brāhmaṇa means one who is aware of the Supreme Absolute Truth. And one who is above brāhmaṇa, when the Absolute Truth is worshiped, that is Vaiṣṇava. A brāhmaṇa may be qualified in so many ways, but if he is not a Vaiṣṇava, then he cannot be a spiritual master. That is also stated in the śāstra: ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipraḥ. A brāhmaṇa is very qualified, ṣaṭ-karma. Ṣaṭ-karma, six kinds of activities. The six kinds of activities are paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. Paṭhana means he must be very much serious in understanding the Vedic literatures. That is brāhmaṇa's qualification, very much studious, high-class scholar in Vedic literature, paṭhana. And pāṭhana, he must teach the Vedic knowledge.

*Formerly, therefore, you know, everyone, that in every village the brāhmaṇa had a catuṣpāṭhī. The brāhmaṇa had no other business. He would sit down in his cottage, and he would teach Vedic literature. Even in Muhammadan, the, what is called, maulanas, they also teach Koran. That is brahminical quality, paṭhana*-pāṭhana, not that "I am very much learned; *I will not distribute it. I shall..." That is called jñāna*-khala, envious even he has knowledge. The spiritual knowledge must be distributed. That is the system of our Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam [SB 7.5.23]. The śravaṇam is paṭhana, to learn from the spiritual master. That is called śravaṇam. And then kīrtanam, then distribute the knowledge. Whatever you have learned from your spiritual master, you must distribute. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. So paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana. Yajana means worshiping the Lord, the Deity. And yājana, and inducing others to engage in that worshiping. This is going on. You kindly mark in this society, we are allowing the students, giving them volumes of books for reading, paṭhana. Then pāṭhana, then teach others. And they are worshiping the Lord, and they are inviting others to come here and learn how to worship Lord. Paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. They are exacting money: "Give us some money. Become our member." But what is that membership fee? That is not being used for their sense gratification. For dāna, for distributing knowledge. "You give us some money as membership fee. We give you whatever we have got. We have got this book. Take it." Dāna-pratigraha.

*So this is brahminical business. Paṭhana*-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. Again... (aside:) You can... Again, in the śāstra it is said that ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ: "If a brāhmaṇa has become very much expert in this six kinds of business," and mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, "and he knows also all the mantras and tantras, but he is impersonalist or voidist, then he cannot become guru." Avaiṣṇavo gurur na syāt. In spite of having all these qualities, if he is impersonalist and voidist, he cannot become spiritual master. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na syād vaiṣṇavaḥ śvapaco guruḥ: "On the other hand, if a person is Vaiṣṇava, devotee of the Lord, even if he is born in the family of caṇḍāla, less than the śūdra, he can become the spiritual master." These are the injunctions of the śāstra.

*So guṇa*-nāma-kriyā-rūpair vibhāvyante yathā-tatham. Sūryaḥ agniḥ. Now, the creation, the God's creation, is going on, and we are acting under the influence of the material qualities. As such, when we act in tamo-guṇa, we become entangled with so many sinful activities. Tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa means ignorance. We have to act because in the material world sometimes we are under the influence of goodness, sometimes we are under the influence of passion, sometimes we are under the influence of ignorance. So when we are in ignorance... Everyone commits sin or criminal activities simply by ignorance. Ignorance. Just like by ignorance a child touches a fire. The fire will not excuse. Because it is a child, he does not know, therefore the fire excuses? It does not burn his hand? No. Even it is child, the fire must act. It burns. Similarly, ignorance is no excuse of law. If you commit some sin and go to the law court and if you plead, "Sir, I did not know this law," that is no excuse. You have committed this criminal activity; even though you did not know the law, that does not mean you will be excused.

*Therefore all sinful activities are done in ignorance or in mixed*-up passion and ignorance. Therefore one has to raise himself to the quality of goodness. He must be good, very good man. And if you want to become very good man, then you have to follow these regulative principles: no illicit sex life, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. If you indulge in these four principles of sinful life, you cannot become a good man. And if there is want of good men, how you can expect peace and prosperity in the world? If everyone is full of rascaldom, how you can expect? You are... Why you are accusing the government? The government is your representative. You are rascals, fools. You select some rascal and fool. How you can expect good government? Democracy. You become good man. You will see government is good. So therefore the mass education should be how to become good man. And how one can become good man? That is also stated in the śāstras: yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. If one is simply made a devotee and he has got unflinching faith in God, Kṛṣṇa, then all the good qualities automatically develop.

So therefore this is the duty. This is duty of this society, to make everyone a devotee, a sincere, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you make the people all good, you will have good society, you will have good government. You will have everything good. And if you create rascals and fools, how you can expect good government? That is not possible. Therefore all serious, thoughtful men should take it that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very essential in this world.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Devotee (1): A devotee becomes more surrendered because the influence of the modes, the three modes, becomes diminished, or is the influence just changed from ignorance and passion to goodness?



Prabhupāda: The surrender means surrender to whom?



Devotee (1): To Kṛṣṇa and to Your Divine Grace.



*Prabhupāda: So that surrender means to accept his orders. The spiritual master trains the disciple in the way of goodness quality. So if you do not abide the orders of spiritual master, what is the use of your surrender? Surrender means ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyasya varjanam. Anukūla, favorable things, should be accepted. And you do not know. Therefore spiritual master will direct you, "This is favorable. This is unfavorable. Don't smoke*-this is unfavorable." But if you don't accept the instruction, what is the meaning of surrender? Simply by offering obeisances, falling flat for the time being, that is not surrender.



Devotee (2): Daṇḍavat.



*Prabhupāda: Daṇḍavat class(?). Surrender means you must abide strictly the orders, sad*-dharma-pṛcchā, ādau gurvāśrayam. To accept a guru means... Śiṣya means one must agree to be governed by the spiritual master. That is called śiṣya. Śiṣya... Śās-dhātu. From śās-dhātu all these terms-śāstra, śiṣya, śāsana. These are words derived from the root śās-dhātu. Śās-dhātu means śāsana, governing. The governing is done by military, governing is done by lawbooks, governing is done by personal instruction, so many things. So śiṣya means who voluntarily accepts to be guided or being governed by the representative of God. That is śiṣya. Yes.



*Devotee (3): In regard to worshiping arcā*-vigraha form, you have explained that if one receives a mantra from a spiritual master who is not bona fide, that mantra has no effect. So I would like to ask if one is worshiping a Deity and his spiritual master is not bona fide, so that Deity cannot be considered the Supreme Lord?



Prabhupāda: Well, first of all, thing is if the spiritual master is not bona fide, how his mantra can be bona fide? Your statement is contradictory. If you say the spiritual master is not bona fide, then how his mantra becomes bona fide? If he is bona fide, then his mantra is bona fide.



Devotee (3): Then why is he giving instruction to worship the Deity? If the spiritual master is not bona fide, then is the Deity also not bona fide?



Prabhupāda: I do not follow. What does he say?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His idea is that if one receives a mantra from a spiritual master, if the spiritual master is not bona fide...



Prabhupāda: Then there is no question of mantra. There is no question of worshiping Deity. These are all bogus things. If you are not... Just like here is a young medical man. If he has not received instruction from a bona fide medical college, so what is the value of his medical, being... That is... What is called? What is the technical name?



Devotee (4): Quack.



Prabhupāda: Quack! (laughter) (pronounces like "quark")



Devotees: Quack.



*Prabhupāda: A quack is not a medical man, however he may show all red bottles, white bottles. There is a Bengali proverb, naj jal yac curi tini ei daktar.(?) One stethoscope, naj(?), and some bottles, jala, and talking all nonsense, he becomes a doctor. That means the quack doctor, not a... Qualified doctor, he knows what is what. So naj jal yac curi tini ei daktar(?). In Bengali they say. And mostly in villages they go on like that. But of course, they have got some experience. I know in Allahabad there was a doctor, Kabhir, a Dr. Kabhir. And because in my previous household life I was a chemist and druggist, I was supplying medicine, so he was my customer. So he had that... This Dr. Kabhir was a compounder. Later on he practiced. So he had very, very big prac... He was my biggest customer. He was purchasing medicine like anything. But he had experience. He learned from an experienced doctor. He cannot be called a bogus, because whatever he learned, he was... But generally, one who is not a bona fide doctor, he is called a quack. So anything, experience required, not that you have to go to the medical college. If you are trained under a bona fide doctor, then also you can get the quality of a doctor. Similarly, the whole thing is tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One should go to the bona fide spiritual master to learn this transcendental science.



*Guest: There is a, just a quotation from Bengali poet that to be devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, one should be fully trained without any... And it is often said that in this Kali*-yuga, even if you do not know, or if you are not studied any books, but if you know only bhakti...



Prabhupāda: What is that? If you know bhakti... That's a very big task. If you know actually bhakti, then it is all good. But do you know what is bhakti? First thing is that.



Guest: Means worshiping God. By understanding this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you do not know any scriptures, you do not know śrutis, mantras, anything, then has any effect at all?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, because this is a special advantage for the people in this age, that if he chants this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense, purely, then... There are three stages of chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In the beginning there are full of offenses. Then it is almost offenseless. And then, when it is pure, that is perfectional stage. So by chanting, if you practice chanting, even though in the beginning it is full of offenses, but if you continue chanting... Therefore we say that "You must chant so many times." So even there are offenses, by chanting, chanting, chanting, chanting, he will be purified. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So therefore, in this age we must stick to this process of chanting. That will make us perfect. If not immediately, it will do, certainly. That is special advantage for the men of this age. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Mahān guṇaḥ. It is a great advantage. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya: [SB 12.3.51] "Simply by chanting Lord Kṛṣṇa's name," mukta-saṅga, 'he becomes free from all contamination and he becomes eligible to be promoted to the spiritual kingdom." That is special advantage of this age. Therefore we are advising, we are preaching, that "You chant this mantra. In any condition of life, begin chanting. You will be benefited." Yes.



Devotee (5): Prabhupāda, you mentioned a person who commits sins because he is in ignorance.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (5): What if the person knows what he is doing is wrong, and he knows what the ultimate result of his doings is also wrong, but he still commits? Is that still ignorance?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ignorance*-rooted, ignorance, heart, rooted in the heart. That can be... Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. You have to cleanse your heart. Then, when your heart is cleansed, then you will say, "No, no. No more I am going to do this. I have suffered so much. No. No." That is real knowledge. Unless your heart is cleansed, then, even though you know that "By committing theft I will be punished," you will commit, because the heart is not clear. Even though one knows that "By doing this, I will suffer," still, he will do that. That distinction is always there. Therefore the only method is this cleansing process in this age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.



Revatīnandana: In the Fourteenth Chapter in the *Gītā*, you describe that the mode of goodness, people who are in the mode of goodness become conditioned by that mode, and they come back repeatedly as philosophers, educators, like that.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Revatīnandana: And then in the Eighteenth Chapter there are different qualities described, and the qualities in the mode of goodness are said to be leading to self*-realization. So is there a distinction between that mode of goodness described in the Eighteenth Chapter and the Fourteenth Chapter?



*Prabhupāda: No. Goodness is a chance. If you acquire... Just like if you become a graduate, there is chance of becoming a lawyer. But if you do not become a lawyer, you remain only graduate. That's all. But without becoming graduate they cannot enter to be a lawyer. Similarly, goodness is the qualification of a brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa has a chance. When you are qualified, you are following the regulative principles, qualified, you have got the chance of being promoted to become a Vaiṣṇava. That is the advantage. But in this age... Again, the same thing. Even one is not a brāhmaṇa*-he is in the category of caṇḍāla-still, if he chants this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he becomes elevated to the position more than a brāhmaṇa. Yes.



Revatīnandana: Is that called purified goodness?



*Prabhupāda: Purified... Goodness is purified, but this material world is so made that you cannot have here absolute goodness. That is not possible. There is... Sometimes it is mixed with passion, mixed with ignorance, mixture. You see? Therefore the transcendental stage is called śuddha*-sattva. Sattva-guṇa is goodness, and the platform where the other qualities cannot contaminate even the quality of goodness, that is the stage of devotion. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā:



māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



All the guṇas... He transcends all the three guṇas. He remains in the fourth stage. Therefore Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is so powerful. If you keep yourself always chanting, you will stay on the..., above goodness, where this passion, the mode of passion and ignorance, cannot touch you. Yes.



Guest: Is it true that all... (end)





750723SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.42

-

Los Angeles, July 23, 1975



Nitai: "The sun, fire, sky, sir, demigods, moon, evening, day, night, directions, water, land and the Supersoul Himself all witness the activities of the living entity."



Prabhupāda:



sūryo 'gniḥ khaṁ marud devaḥ

somaḥ sandhyāhanī diśaḥ

kaṁ kuḥ svayaṁ dharma iti

hy ete daihyasya sākṣiṇaḥ

[SB 6.1.42]



Sometimes foolish people challenge that "Who has seen? Who has seen?" Sometimes they argue, Christian philosophers, that "If I am suffering the resultant action of my past life, then where is the witness that I have done something wrong in my past life? Where is the witness?" So to them this is the answer, that God has created so many witnesses. The first witness is sūrya, the sun. How you can go away from the sunlight? Anywhere you go... We are in this room. Because it is daytime, the sunlight is there. Sūryaḥ agniḥ. Agniḥ means fire. We have to touch with fire in so many ways. The factories are working fire, the electric powerhouse, the electricity, the oven, the kitchen, fire. So agniḥ..., sūryaḥ agniḥ kham ākāśa, sky. Where you can escape sky? Within the room there is sky; outside, the sky; up, the sky; down, the sky. Everywhere is sky. Sūryaḥ agniḥ khaṁ marud, air. Where is no air? Every place there is air. Devaḥ. Devaḥ means the Supreme Lord. What is that devaḥ?



Nitai: demigods.



*Prabhupāda: Demigods or God, God is also situated in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Devaḥ. And sandhyā. In the morning there is sun, in the evening there is moon, and sandhyā ahanī. Ahanī means day. And diśaḥ, the direction: east, west, north, south, then corner, then up and down. These are called diśaḥ. Kam, then water. And kuḥ means the land. Kaṁ kuḥ svayaṁ dharma. And the Dharmarāja, Yamarāja, he is present. Iti, "thus," hi, "indeed," ete, "all these," daihyasya. Daihyasya means one who has accepted this body, material body. A living entity who has accepted this material body he has to work. This is called field of work. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is called What is called?



Devotees: Kṣetra.



*Prabhupāda: Kṣetra, yes. Kṣetra*-kṣetrajña. I am kṣetrajña. I am the soul. I know this is my body. I never say "I, the body." "My body." Never say "I body." Nobody says. So daihyasya. Any sane man, he knows that "I am not this body. It is my body." I never say, "I finger." "My finger." I never say, "I head." "My head." So this body is mine.



*So anyone who has accepted this body, daihyasya, and whatever he is doing, it is all being witnessed by so many witnesses. How can you avoid? How you can do something very secretly? That is not possible. Everything is being noted. And so punishment or reward, you will have to accept because you are not independent. We foolishly say independent. "We don't care for anybody. There is no God." But there is death. That you have to believe. So that death is God. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś ca. One who does not see God during lifetime, so he will see God at the time of death. So there is no question of not seeing God. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. He is standing. He is so merciful. He has come to this temple so that we can take the advantage of seeing Him, But we are seeing Him still idol or something, stone or wood. He does not know that because we cannot see now at the present moment without being wood or stone or something material, so Kṛṣṇa has very kindly come to me so that I can see Him in a form which I can see. That is His mercy. We have repeatedly said this.

*Therefore we should never think, arcye viṣṇu śilā*-dhīḥ, the worshipable Deity, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, as made of stone. In the higher sense, stone is also Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like if you go to the street, you may see the sun in the sky, but when you are within the room, you may not see the sun in the sky directly. But because it is daytime, therefore we can understand there is sun on the sky. Similarly, we do not require to see God directly. We can see Him through His energy. Just like in a telephone hanger, as soon as somebody speaks, immediately see him. How it is possible? By his word, immediately see him. You are in a closed room, somebody knocking, and you say, "Who is it?" He says, "I am." So immediately by his voice, you can see him. So why do you want to see directly? We can see anything by his energy. Just like if you feel heat here, then immediately you becomes alert, "Oh, there must be some fire." If there is some smoke, immediately you can understand that there is fire. So by intelligence and by the energy of God, you can see God. That is intelligence. So Kṛṣṇa says,

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca

ahaṅkāra itī me

bhinnā prakṛtiḥ aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



"It is My energy." So stone is also energy of Kṛṣṇa, but you have not eyes to see Kṛṣṇa in the stone. That is your defect. Kṛṣṇa says that "This is My energy." Just like you can see, by energy, you can see the energetic, similarly, by seeing Kṛṣṇa's energy, you can see Kṛṣṇa.



Therefore those who are advanced devotee, for them, there is nothing material; *everything is Kṛṣṇa. Sthāvara*-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. Actually, a Vaiṣṇava is factually monist because he does not see anything except Kṛṣṇa. Anything he sees, he will think, "This is Kṛṣṇa's energy." So why it is not Kṛṣṇa? So Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: [Bg. 9.4] "I am expanded everywhere." Avyakta-mūrtinā. Avyakta means not manifest. He is in the fire. He is in the water. He is in the land. He is in the sky-everywhere. He is in the mind. He is in intelligence. He is soul. He's part and So Kṛṣṇa is everywhere; *simply you have to make your eyes how to see Him. That is required. That is prema. Premāṇjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are santaḥ, saintly person, they always see Kṛṣṇa. Why? Premāñjana-cchurita, because he is in love with Kṛṣṇa. Just like you have your beloved child. Although he is out of sight, you can see him in his shoe, in his cloth, in his toy: "Oh, it is my child." That requires prema. Similarly, if you have knowledge, theoretical knowledge even, that everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy and if you have love for Kṛṣṇa, with reference to the context, whatever you see, you see Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You cannot see anywhere where there is no Kṛṣṇa. This is for the devotee. For the ordinary person these are the description, that the sūrya, the sun is also Kṛṣṇa, the fire is also Kṛṣṇa, the sky is also Kṛṣṇa, the air is also Kṛṣṇa, the moon is also Kṛṣṇa, the evening is Kṛṣṇa, daytime is Kṛṣṇa. Then how you can avoid Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says that "I am..." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. You cannot avoid Kṛṣṇa. Simply on account of your foolishness, māyā is covering your eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. So mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. If you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then māyā's curtain will be taken away and you will see Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is required. Then you become perfect as soon as you learn how to see Kṛṣṇa everywhere. This is the art, transcendental art, spiritual art, how to see Kṛṣṇa. Then you become perfect. That is wanted.

So the devotee of Kṛṣṇa, they know that "Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa, and I cannot do anything, concealing myself from the eyes of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore I should not do anything which is sinful." This is the first step of advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are thinking that "Although we are doing this sinful activity, Kṛṣṇa cannot see." No, Kṛṣṇa will see. You should always know that. Kṛṣṇa will see. And Kṛṣṇa says that unless one is free from all sinful activities, he cannot be engaged in full devotional service of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*yeṣāṁ anta*-gataṁ tu pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇāṁ

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*So we should wilfully try to become... He is seeing, but there are two kinds of seeing. When you act sinfully, that is also being seen by Kṛṣṇa, and when you are serving Him, that is also being seen by Kṛṣṇa. So we have to be seen by Him that we are actually acting for Him as His servant. Then we will be recognized. You cannot conceal Him. He is seeing. He can see everything. But when you act sinfully, then the māyā's curtain prohibits you not to see Kṛṣṇa. But when you actually surrender to Him, then you can see Kṛṣṇa is present. He is seeing everything. That is wanted. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Don't try to see Kṛṣṇa. Try to become being seen by Kṛṣṇa." That is wanted. You cannot see Kṛṣṇa so long... Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. So long we have got these material eyes, material senses, we cannot hear... Others may chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he is enjoying, and others, they are thinking disturbing, the same chanting. So because one has got this material ear, he is thinking it is disturbing, and one who has got spiritual ear, then he is enjoying, "Oh, here is Hare Kṛṣṇa chant." This is the difference.



So we have to purify our senses. Then we shall see Kṛṣṇa. We shall know that Kṛṣṇa is seeing us, our activities, our sinful activities, and we have to suffer for this. We have to accept a similar body. Just Kṛṣṇa says,

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*So everybody of us, we are getting a new type of body. This is a yantra. This is a machine given by Kṛṣṇa through the agency of material nature. This body is made of material nature. I am the owner of the body or driver of the body, and Kṛṣṇa is the giver of the body. We should always remember. Kṛṣṇa is sitting within us, and He knows what kind of body I am desiring. So He is immediately ordering material nature that "You give him such and such body." And she is ready. She can manufacture millions of types of body in a second, material nature. That you have seen, nature, how all of a sudden all the trees become green. Yesterday or day before yesterday, there was no leaf. And the third day, in the morning you see all the trees are full with leaves. How it is done? So nature is so powerful. Immediately. So therefore... Similarly, our bodies, you body, my body, millions and trillions and numberless body, immediately created. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi... [Bg. 3.27]. We have to study like that, how prakṛti is working. The prakṛti is not under your control. That prakṛti is working under the supervision of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhaykṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram. As soon as Kṛṣṇa says, "Now make all the trees leafless," immediately leafless. He says, "Make the all the trees with all leafs," immediately with leaves. That is God; that is prakṛti. Try to understand like that. Why you compare your silly intelligence with God's intelligence? "I cannot do it; therefore God cannot do it. I cannot see God; *therefore God cannot see me." This rascaldom is going on. Because I am an insignificant creature, kṣudrad api-kṣudra, kṣḍra means very, very insignificant*-I am comparing myself with the intelligence of God. This is my fault(?).



So we have to give up this nonsense idea as knowledge. We have to understand God as it is said in the śāstras. Practically, you have to judge. Then we shall understand God, His intelligence, how He is working. Because in the previous verse it is said,

*yena sva*-dhāmny amī bhāvā

*rajaḥ*-sattva-tamomayāḥ

*guṇa*-nāma-kriyā-rūpair

*vibhāvyante yathā*-tatham



*Everything is being supplied by the nature. By the order of Kṛṣṇa, according to the modes of nature, we are contaminating guṇa*-nāma. As we are infected with a certain type of guṇa, immediately our body, activities, name... We have contacted, contaminated, with tamo-guṇa... There are so many animals in the tamo-guṇa-trees, plants. Tamo-guṇa: darkness, no knowledge. So similarly sattva-guṇa. If you associate with sattva-guṇa, then you get the body of a brāhmaṇa, intelligent man, saintly man. Everything is ready. It requires only our association. That's all. Therefore the advice is that "You all become the topmost qualified man." That is the propaganda of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Become first-class topmost men. Don't remain..." Tamasi mā: "Don't remain in darkness." This is our only request. Otherwise... But why we are making this propaganda? Because Kṛṣṇa wants. We are all servant of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore our only aim is to serve Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa wants that "Save these rascals from rajo*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Bring them transcendent to sattva-guṇa, and they will be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna: "Arjuna, you become above the three guṇas." That is the Kṛṣṇa's desire. "Why you are bothering with these guṇas? 'This is my body. This is my family. This is this. This is this. This is this.' You are arguing so much." So therefore Kṛṣṇa said, nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna: "These are on the material platform. Come to the spiritual platform." Ultimately he said that "You are My very dear friend. Therefore I am disclosing to you the most confidential knowledge." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. This is the whole instruction.



*So all these śāstras, all these Vedas, all this knowledge, they are simply leading to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. But in the Kali*-yuga it is very difficult to go step by step. People are so fallen, so much engrossed in rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Therefore, by the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He has empowered the holy name of God, that simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you can make equal progress than in other ages. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt.

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*This is the injunction of the śāstra, that in the Satya*-yuga people used to live for 100,000's of years. At that time you could meditate upon for sixty thousand years. Still, forty thousand years you can live perfectly. But it is not possible now. Therefore the supreme perfection attained in the Satya-yuga by meditation was possible in the next yuga, Tretā-yuga, by performing sacrifices. Tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. Dvāpare paricaryāyām. In the next age, by worshiping Deity, paricaryāyām. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt: the same result you will get. Because Kali-yuga, it is very difficult to be fixed up in meditation or to perform very costly yajñas or to perform worship of the Deity. That is also difficult. I am very much pleased that you are worshiping Deity very nicely, gorgeously. But in India you will find there are so many temples. Of course, it requires the energy. Otherwise here also, there are so many churches. Now they are being closed. This church, this was a church. Now it was closed. There was no customer. And now it is filled up. Why? The same church, the same men, the same spot. It is due to real knowledge. So if you go on simply opening centers, if there is no knowledge then it will again become a closed church someday. So don't do that. Before opening a center you must have perfect worshiper, perfect devotees. Not perfect; *at least those who are willing to become. Then open. Otherwise, simply chant. Kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt. That will never be impaired. Anywhere you chant, you will be successful, anywhere. Sit down. If you chant without any offense, then kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. But if possible, open nice centers, worship nicely. That will be very good. But if you are unable to do anything, either the meditation or offering sacrifices, worshiping the Deity, in this age, simply if you sincerely chant without any offense, then your life is sure to be successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



760608SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.42

-

Los Angeles, June 8, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "The sun, fire, sky, air, demigods, moon, evening, day, night, directions, water, land, and the Supersoul Himself all witness the activities of the living entity."



Prabhupāda:



sūryo 'gniḥ khaṁ marud devaḥ

somaḥ sandhyāhanī diśaḥ

kaṁ kuḥ svayaṁ dharma iti hy

ete daihyasya sākṣiṇaḥ

[SB 6.1.42]



In the Christian religion they do not believe karma, that I did something in my past life. "Where is the evidence that I did something; therefore I am suffering?" They take the analogy: just like a criminal in the court is convinced when there is sufficient witness, not that I have complained against you, and you go to the court, you are punished. No. My charges against you should be corroborated by sufficient witness. So the Christian religionists, they do not believe in the next birth, transmigration of the soul, something like that. So they do not believe also in the fruitive activities' resultant action of our past life. This very word "witness"... It is my personal experience. I was student in the Scottish Churches College, and we had to attend half an hour Bible class. So Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was teaching, Reverend W.S. Urquhart. He said, I remember, that "Where is the evidence? The Hindus believe in the karma, but where is the evidence that I did it?"



*The answer is here, that... We may not compare our inefficiency with the arrangement of the Supreme Lord. Now, God has kept so many witnesses. How you can escape? Here is a name, list of witness. Sūrya first of all*-the sun. So how you can escape Sūrya's light? You cannot escape. So here is one witness. Then Agni, fire. Then Kham, the sky. Where there is no sky? Here we are sitting; *there is sky. And there is light also. Then Marut, air. Deva. Who is deva? Demigods, yes. Then Soma. At night there is moon. Sandhya, evening or noon. Noon is also sandhya. Sandhya means junction. When the night is going away-the day is coming early in the morning-that is also sandhya. When midday, the forenoon is passing-the afternoon is beginning*-that is also sandhya. Tri-sandhya. Tri-sandhya. We have to chant Gāyatrī mantra tri-sandhya, early in the morning, in the midday and in the evening. That is tri-sandhya. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ yasyāprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. What is next line?

*Devotee: Dhyāyan stuvaṁs tasya yaśas tri*-sandhyam.



*Prabhupāda: Tri*-sandhya. This tri-sandhya, early in the morning, midday and in the evening. So every sandhya is witness. Sandhya, ahani, day and night together, whole day, twenty-four hours, ahani. Ahany ahani lokā gacchanti yama-mandiram. This ahani. Every day hundreds and thousands of living entities are dying. Śeṣaḥ sthitam icchanti kim aścaryam ataḥ param. Still, one who is not dead, he is thinking, "I'll not die. I'll remain." This is the wonderful thing, most wonderful thing. Everyone should be prepared for death. Death is inevitable. So diśaḥ, and ten directions: north, south, east, west, the four corners, eight, and up and down. They are ten directions. Where you'll go? Everywhere there is witness. You cannot escape. Kaṁ kuḥ svayam. What is kaṁ kuḥ?



Devotee: Water and earth.



*Prabhupāda: Water and earth, yes. So how you can escape God's eyes? Sarvataḥ pāṇi*-pādaṁ tat sarvato cakṣuḥ. Everywhere God's eyes are there. So you cannot escape. You are wanting witness? Here are so many witnesses. How you can hide your sinful activities? That is not possible. You can hide yourself from the material laws, that "The police has not seen me. Then I may escape." No. God's law you cannot do that. That is not possible. So we should remember it, that when we act sinfully, then there are so many witnesses, and we have to be punished. You cannot escape. Kaṁ kuḥ svayam. Svayam. These are so many gods, witnesses, and over and above them svayam, the Personality of Godhead in His Supersoul feature Supersoul means God is present in everyone's heart. Not only heart, He is everywhere present, even within the atom.



*yac*-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramānu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.35]



*The Lord, in order to maintain this material world, how He has expanded, it is described in the śāstra. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means this universe. Aṇḍa: it is egglike. Aṇḍa means egglike, jagat-aṇḍa, the universe. So that universe is not one. We are seeing only one universe with our, these naked eyes, but when we see through the eyes of śāstra, authority... Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. This is Vedic knowledge, that "Don't be simply after your, these defective eyes." What is the value of these eyes? There are so many things. Just like this morning we were discussing: you take photograph from the sea. What you will see? But there are many millions of fishes within the sea. What you will take, photograph? They say that "We have taken photograph on the moon planet. There is no life." What is the value of this photograph? Can you take photograph in the water, how many fishes are there? So what is the value of your photograph? This is the difficulty, that these rascals, they do not accept that they are defective. That is the difficulty. With their defective senses they are thinking, "We are perfect. Because we have got a photograph, telescope, therefore it is sufficient." It is made by you. You are defective, and whatever you make, that is defective. This is the conclusion. This is right conclusion. If blind man, if he creates some telescope or..., can he see? You are blind. What you can see? But they are taking evidence: "We have seen with photograph, with telescope."



*So these questions were never raised. We are now raising these questions. And they were passing on. No. This is not the process. The process is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt, śabda-pramāṇam. That is the Vedic injunction, śabda-pramāṇam. Just like you are sleeping, and somebody is coming to kill you with knife. So how you can take precaution? You are sleeping. But some of your friend or relative: "Get up! Get up! Get up! There is enemy! There is enemy!" Immediately you wake up. That means you see with the ear, not with the eyes. The real seeing is through the eyes, er, through the ears. Suppose one does not know who is your..., who is his father. So how he can see the father? Through the ear, not with the eyes. That is not possible. The mother says, "My dear child, here is your father," and you see through the eyes: "Here is my father." So therefore real eyes-the ear, not these eyes. Real eyes. That is real seeing. Therefore śāstra says, Vedic knowledge, that śāstra-cakṣuṣāt, paśyati jñāna-cakṣuṣāt: "One can see by the eyes of knowledge," not by these blunt eyes. This is useless. They cannot see. And how you can see through the śabda? Śāstra means śabda. Through the ear... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "Don't try to see a saintly person by your eyes. You see a saintly person by the ear." Because if you hear from the saintly person and if he is speaking from the experience which he has heard from the, another saintly person*-this is called guru-paramparā-then the knowledge is perfect. Yesterday we ... The Yamadūtas said that iti śuśruma. Never said, "I have seen it." Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt svayaṁbhūr iti śuśruma: "We have heard it." Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣā... He never says, "I have seen it." No. Iti ṣuṣruma. So this is experience, real experience, real knowledge. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Veda is directly Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa... You can see Nārāyaṇa. You can hear about Nārāyaṇa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Viṣṇu is Nārāyaṇa. This is the beginning of understanding Nārāyaṇa, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Never says, "By seeing, by touching, by licking up." No. You cannot see. That is not experience. Real experience is iti śuśruma. So if we take our knowledge that there is no witness what we did in our previous life, that is nonsense. Here are the so many witnesses. Iti śuśruma. Hear. You cannot say there is no witness. You hear from the Vedic literature how many witnesses are present there for all your activities and how they are becoming recorded minutely, and everything will be judged. Therefore the Yamarāja is there.

*So this is our position, that prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Anyone who is proud of his so-called knowledge, so-called experience-simply "I believe," "I think," "It may be," "Suppose"*-what is this knowledge? They're all nonsense. When you get knowledge śuśruma, from the authority, that is knowledge. Otherwise all useless. All useless. Because your senses are imperfect. You cannot see properly. You cannot hear properly. You cannot touch properly. You cannot smell properly. These are your instruments for getting experience. You cannot go. How you can say in other planets there is no life? You cannot go. According to the scientists' calculations, they say that to go to the topmost planet it will take forty... Eh? Forty thousands of years. Who is going to travel forty thousand years? But we are seeing. The planets are there. Go there and see. You cannot estimate of one universe, which you are practically seeing. And in the śāstra we hear that there are millions of universes.

*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*So we have to take knowledge from śāstra. And who will teach me śāstra? Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Go to guru. Tad-vijñānārtham. Just like you go to some superior person to learn something. That is the process. Similarly, the same process... You have to go to a person who has also heard. Śuśruma. You go to that, not that person who says that "I suppose," "I believe," "Maybe." No. You go to the person who says, iti śuśruma: "We have heard it from authorities." You have to go to that person. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Who is guru? Śrotriyam: "Who has properly heard." Śrotriyam. And what is the result? Brahma-niṣṭham: by hearing, he is firmly convinced there is God. You have to go to such guru. lf you go to a fakir, what he will teach you? No. Fakir means one who talks much without any knowledge. He is called fakir.



*So everything is, direction is there. Tad*-vijñānārtham. If you want to know that science, then Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva: [MU 1.2.12] "must." Gacchet. This verb is used when there is the sense "must." If somebody says, "All right, I shall learn even without going to any guru," no, that is not possible. Therefore this verb is used, gacchet: "You must if you want to learn." Otherwise you remain in darkness. This is Vedic injunction. Śuśruma? You must hear from the right source; *then you will get perfect knowledge. So therefore, whether there is witness or not witness, we cannot understand from a so*-called professor. There is witness, śāstra says. And how can you deny it? If sūrya... first word is sūrya. The sūrya is the eyes of God, one eye. Another eye is the moon. And it is described in the śāstra,

*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahānāṁ

*rāja samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ,

*yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



So Sūrya can see that... We have got some rays of the eyes, three feet. But, you see, from the 93,000,000 miles away he is seeing you. So brightly he is seeing. So you have to understand in that way. The śāstra says, "Here is the eyes." Another eye, another eye, one after another, one after another. How you will escape? That is not possible.



Therefore we must be very cautious and, I mean to say, with sense we must act, and if we act according to the direction of the śāstra, then our position is safe. Otherwise, we are risking life. Risking life means this human life, human life. The dog has got ear; we have got also ear. But a dog cannot understand śāstra; *that is not possible. Or the elephant has got ear, very big ear. (laughter) Does it mean that he can hear more? No. This is rascaldom. One must be quite able to hear to understand śāstra. Therefore śāstra is meant for the human society. In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta you will find, the Sanātana Gosvāmī's teachings, you will find, anadi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. Why these Vedas and Purāṇas are there? Just to remind us. The veda purāṇa karila. Veda, the four Vedas and other literatures abiding by the Vedas... Purāṇa means supplementary Vedas. There are many historical incidences. They say "mythology." No, it is not mythology. It is from selected historical incidences put together, but the same Vedic instruction for common man. In the Vedas the mantras are there. Common man cannot understand. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], athāto brahma jijñāsā. This Veda mantra goes on. But ordinary persons, they cannot understand. Therefore the same Vedas explained with reference to the historical incidences, that is called Purāṇa. Purāṇa means "who is complete." Purāṇa, pūrayati iti purāṇa. So, the Māyāvādī philosopher, they say the Purāṇas are stories. No. The Bhāgavata is Purāṇa. It is full of stories. But what kind of stories? All Vedic instruction. Just like Ajāmila. Ajāmila began, itihāsa. The Bhāgavata Purāṇa is speaking itihāsa, in the beginning. It is said. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is giving incidences of itihāsa, history, example from the history. So this is actual fact.

*So in order to convince Parīkṣit Mahārāja how chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is powerful, he is giving a lesson from the history, how Ajāmila was delivered simply by chanting "Nārāyaṇa." This is the incidence from the history. And it is history. The story begins, kānyakubje. Kānyakubja is still there in India. Perhaps you have heard the name of Kanpur. So that is within the Kānyakubja area. Kānyakubje dvijaḥ: "There was a brāhmaṇa in Kānyakubja." Historical name is all... So it is history. It is not story, mythology. No story. It is historical fact. Anything which is described in the śāstra... The Bhāgavata is Maha*-Purāṇa. Don't be misled, "These are mythology." No, these are historical facts. And we have to learn the Vedic knowledge by the description selected from the history so that we can easily understand. This is the purpose.

*So in our, this human form of life we should be very careful, and what is ordered that "You should do like this..." Just like if you go to a medical man, so if you are diseased, a medical man, physician, will give you a prescription that "You take this medicine, and you do not take this kind of food. You can take this kind of food." Āhāra*-pathya. So if you want to cure your material disease, then two things are required: the medicine and the food. It is called pathya. The proper food and proper medicine. The proper medicine is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and the proper food is Kṛṣṇa prasāda.

Devotees: Jaya!



*Prabhupāda: Take these two things*-you are liberated.



Thank you very much. (end)



750724SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.43

-

Los Angeles, July 24, 1975



Nitai: "The candidates for punishment are those who are confirmed by these many witnesses to have deviated from the prescribed regulative duties. Everyone engaged in fruitive activities is suitable to be subjected to punishment according to his different sinful activities."



Prabhupāda:



etair adharmo vijñātaḥ

sthānaṁ daṇḍasya yujyate

sarve karmānurodhena

daṇḍam arhanti kāriṇaḥ

[SB 6.1.43]



*So we have discussed about the witnesses last, yesterday. You cannot conceal anything from the eyes of God. That is not possible. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, sarvato pāṇi-pādas tam. God has His eyes, heads, legs, hands everywhere. Therefore He is all-pervasive. So just like government has got vigilance: you are running on the road; there is vigilance. Similarly, everyone within this material world, either in this planet or lower planetary system or higher planetary system, they are daṇḍam arhanti.



*Everyone is deserving to be punished, beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the ant, every living entity. Daṇḍam arhanti. And the final daṇḍam... Daṇḍa means punishment. The final daṇḍa is death. Everywhere, anywhere you go within this universe, planetary system... Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthāḥ: "Those who are in the modes of goodness, they are elevated to the higher planetary system." And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ: "Those who are under the spell of passion, they keep within the middle planetary system." And those who are most abominable, they are given to the lower planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ, jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Jaghanya means very abominable guṇa, in the darkest region of ignorance. They are put into the lower planetary system, animal. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and they are distributed all over the universe. Don't think that here only there are living entities and all other planets are vacant. This is nonsense. Everywhere there is living entity. Therefore it is said in the Bhagavad..., sarva-gaḥ. The living entity is everywhere. You can go anywhere. You can go to the higher planetary system, you can go to the lower planetary system, and you can go to the kingdom of God also in the spiritual world. Therefore the living entity's another name is sarva-gaḥ. He can go anywhere. If you like, you go to hell. If you like, you go to heaven. If you like, you go to God. If you like, you become animal. If you like, you can become demigod. Everything, fully. That little independence is there. As you like, Kṛṣṇa will give you facility.

*Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "My dear Arjuna, the Lord is situated in everyone's heart." Why He is situated there? Because He is the suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. We are sons of God. He is very sorry that unnecessarily we are wandering within this universe and suffering in different types of bodies, and this is going on. So īśvara, He is very well-wisher, friend. He is simply trying to turn His face towards you. That's it. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 18.61]. He has given little freedom, so do whatever you like. But He is simply taking the chance, "When this rascal will turn towards Me?" That is His business. That is stated in the Vedic śāstra, that two birds are sitting in the same tree. One is eating the fruit and the other is simple witnessing. So the eating bird is the jīvātmā, individual soul, and the witness bird is God, Paramātmā. So He is giving us the facility. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna ti..., bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 18.61]. You cannot, out of your own power, you can go to the higher planetary, lower planetary, anywhere. No. That is to be sanctioned by God. Bhrāmayan. I want to go here, there. He will give me facility. And what is the process? Now, yantra, a machine. Just like you have got the machine, aeroplane, you go from here to there, similarly, this is also a yantra, this is also a machine. The difference is that this is God-made machine or Yes, everything is God-made, and your machine is man-made. Here the machine is growing automatically, and your machine, each and every machine you have to manufacture in the factory. That is the difference. Both of them are machine, but this machine is God-made, and the other machine is man-made.

*So some atheist old man, he challenged me that "Why you are thinking of God? This body is just like a clock. You wind it and it will go on." That's all right. But here a clock machine is there. It can produce other clock. But your clock cannot do that. That is the difference. Here God*-made machine is so nice and perfect that He creates one male and one female, and unlimited machine is coming out, so much so that you, being disgusted, you kill some of the machine. And they are trying to manufacture another machine in the laboratory, in the test tube. What is the credit there? Millions of machine are coming out without your test tube. But they want to take credit.

*So anyway, this is a machine, and the machine is given by God. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. God has nothing to do. He simply orders His maidservant, this material nature. The material nature is God's maidservant, lower-grade maidservant. He has got many maidservants, Lakṣmīs. They are all goddess of fortune. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. He has got so many. The gopīs are maidservants. The Lakṣmīs are maidservant. You will find this description in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Kṛṣṇa book, that all the queens of Kṛṣṇa they were discussing with Draupadī, female talk. Draupadī was asking, "How you were married?" So they were narrating the incidence, how (s)he was married to Kṛṣṇa. But the conclusion is there: every queen was speaking, "In this way, I have been maidservant of Kṛṣṇa." Nobody says that "I have become queen," although they were queen. They were also coming from royal family, very good family. Kṛṣṇa had to conquer such queen by fighting. They're not ordinary wife. But still, they say that "In this way I have become maidservant." So everyone is maidservant. We are also maidservant, prakṛti. Prakṛti means female. Jīva-bhūtāḥ, yayedaṁ dhāryate, itas tu prakṛti viddhi me parāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says First of all the material energy, prakṛti... The material energy is also prakṛti, maidservant. And the spiritual energy, also maidservant. And we are, we jīvas, we are also maidservant. Here we are dressed as man, but our original position is maidservant of Kṛṣṇa, prakṛti. Here, of course, even woman, she is also thinking as man. Man means enjoyer, and prakṛti means enjoyed. So anyone who is thinking, "I am enjoyer," outwardly he may be in the female form or male form*-he is puruṣa. Therefore this conditioned soul is puruṣa. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthe api.

So anyone who has come within this material world, everyone is thinking, "I am puruṣa. I am enjoyer." That is sinful. That is... Just like if a woman artificially dresses herself as a man, that is not very good business. That is not appreciated. So our position is that we are actually maidservant of Kṛṣṇa, but here, in the material world, we are trying to become puruṣa, or enjoyer. This is our disease. That is sinful. That is sinful. Suppose if a woman dresses like man... Of course, nowadays it is very fashionable to have coat, pant, like the... So that is not very, liked very much. It is artificial. So anything artificial we do, that is sinful. This is the description of sin. What is sin? You, if you act naturally, that is good; but if you act artificially, that is sinful. This is the distinction between sinful activities and pious activities. So our natural function is, as described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is our constitutional position, that we are eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa, or maidservant of Kṛṣṇa, as you say. But we are trying to become master. So that is sinful. So we are creating so many positions, situations, "How I can become the master." Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare. The living entity, forgetting his real position as maidservant of God or servant of God, when he wants to enjoy this material world, that is māyā. Māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare. Immediately. That is sinful.

*So this disease is there even in Lord Brahmā down to the small ant. Everyone is trying to enjoy this material... The whole material civilization means everyone is trying to enjoy this world, that civilization. So many cars are running here and there, but what is the purpose? The purpose is everyone is trying to enjoy. That is sinful. That is sinful, because you cannot enjoy. Enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. So long you are trying to encroach upon Kṛṣṇa's jurisdiction-everything is Kṛṣṇa's jurisdiction, but you are falsely trying to enjoy-that is disease. So this human life specially meant for understanding this truth. That is human life. Kṛṣṇa is educating the human society. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāḥ. First of all He described the material energy, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. This is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Kṛṣṇa is everything*-the material, spiritual, marginal, everything. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Somewhere He is personally present. Somewhere He is present by His energy. So everything is energy of Kṛṣṇa. Parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ.

*eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistārina yathā

parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ

sarvedam akhilam jagat



Very nicely it is described in the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*, shortly, what is this world, manifested world. This manifested world is distribution of the energy of Brahman. Just like this whole material world, universe, is distribution of the energy of the sun. This is scientific. Everyone knows. Similarly, whatever there is, it is the distribution of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy not different. But still, energy is not Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not energy. In this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa.



*So every living entity who has forgotten Kṛṣṇa, trying to imitate Kṛṣṇa, that is sinful. So these sinful activities we are doing in ignorance, in lower grade of life. Just like cats and dogs and birds and trees and the..., they do not know, there is no capacity. They are so much covered with ignorance that a tree is standing, you cut it: there is no protest because it is so dull. Similarly, you take the animal, slaughterhouse, it cannot protest. These are the symptoms of ignorance. And as soon as there is awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or advanced consciousness, then if I pinch you, immediately you protest, "Why you have pinched me?" That is the difference between the lower*-grade life and higher-grade life. So if in the higher-grade life we do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then we are making suicide, cutting our own throat. That is sinful. So here is a chance, the human form of body. Death will come to the dog and to me also. Then where is the difference? The difference is so long I am living, I can try to understand Kṛṣṇa; others cannot. If we miss this opportunity, then we are committing suicide. This is the verdict of the śāstra.

*So nāyaṁ deha deho*-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Everybody has got material body. The ant has got also material body, and Lord Brahmā has got also material body. Anyone who is in the material world, he has got this material body. Therefore it is called ayaṁ deha: "this deha, this body." I am not deha. That is the tenth-class ignorance if I think, "I am this body." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Everyone has got body, but nrloke, in the human society, the body which you have got, or the person who has got this human form of body, kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate, for such animal, having this material body, human body, it is not meant for working so hard. That is first-class civilization when people are not working very hard, living very peacefully, and getting their necessities of life. That is first-class civilization, not that to work day and night like hogs and dog, and get a cup of tea and little morsel of bread. That is not civilization. Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhu... [SB 5.5.1]. This kind of hard labor for sense gratification little, it is done by the hogs and dogs. So to teach people to work day and night for simply eating purposes, sense gratification, that is hog civilization, according to śāstra. Nāyaṁ deha deho-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Then what is the purpose of human life? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva yena brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam. You are seeking after happiness. So this life is meant for tapasya, austerity. Not to indulge in sense gratification. That is done by the dogs and hogs. You are human being, you are meant for practicing austerity. "Oh, why shall I practice austerity?" Now, yato śuddhyed sattva. Your existence will be purified. You are suffering in this material world because your existence is not purified. Therefore you are accepting death. Who dies? The diseased man dies. Of course, everyone dies. Everyone is diseased here. But generally, we understand, one who is not healthy, he dies. So why we die? We are eternal. Everyone knows. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Then why I am dying? Why I am suffering from disease, from old age? This should be the human question, and they should try to solve this, and this opportunity is given by nature and God combined. God has ordered nature to give me this machine, human form of body. If we do not utilize it as human being, that is sinful. That is sinful.

So there are so many witnesses, as we have already discussed.

sūryaḥ agniḥ khaṁ marud devaḥ

somaḥ sandhyāhanī diśaḥ

kaṁ kuhsvayaṁ dharma iti

hy ete daihyasya sākṣiṇaḥ



*How Kṛṣṇa is anxious, that "This rascal has been given the nice human form of body to understand Me, My relationship with him." Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that this human form of body is durlabhaṁ. Labham means "obtainable," and duḥ, "when you have(?) difficulty." So many species of life we had to go through by evolution. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In this way we have got this human form, durlabhaṁ, with great difficulty. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. So mānuṣaṁ janma, durlabhaṁ: "very, very difficult to obtain it." So somebody says, "What is the benefit? Everyone dies, and man also dies." But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Yes, that is fact." Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam: "Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the great success of life." That is int Arthadam, arthadam. Artha means some meaningful. If we don't use it as meaningful life, then we are punished, again go to Either go to back to home, back to Godhead, or go to dog's and cat's life. We have to select now. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. If you practice only tamo-guṇa, then you go to hell again.



*So therefore it is said here, etair adharmo vijñātaḥ. One who is religious or irreligious, there are so many witnesses. They inform. Kṛṣṇa personally sees also. He is there within the heart. So it is not very difficult for Kṛṣṇa and His agent to understand who is religious or irreligious. Just like I have said many times that our test tube testing is Kṛṣṇa's word that "One who is religious or unreligious..." What is that? Catur*-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna: "Four classes of men who are pious, they come to Me for worshiping." Who are they? Ārto arthārthī jijñāsuḥ jñānī, four classes. One who is distressed, he goes to God: "Sir, I am very much distressed. Kindly give me relief." Arthārthī, one is poor, he also goes, provided he is pious. The impious, they'll "Uh, what is God? I will do it." Just like the Communists, they say, "You are poor, so why you are going to the church? Beg from us bread." And poor men, they beg, and they give many breads, and they become atheist: "Well, we are getting from the Communist leaders bread. Why shall I go to church, 'God gives us, give me'?" But because they are poor, poor in knowledge, they do not know that the bread is coming from the Communist factory. It is coming from God, the wheat. That is not manufactured in the factory. But they have no intelligence. They think that "Our Communist friend, he is giving me bread."

*So in this way we are misguided by so many rascals and forget God, and that is sinful life. That is the sinful life. Therefore it is said, etair adharmaḥ vijñātaḥ: now as soon as you are sinful, you have to be punished. That is nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. It is not that God has to come personally to punish you. When God comes personally to punish you, then you are not ordinary. (laughter) Just like He came to punish Rāvaṇa, Kaṁsa. They are not ordinary. But ordinary person, a little headache is sufficient to finish him. He doesn't require to bring God. God's agents, there are so many agents. One agent is sufficient. So in this way there are different grades of punishment. Just like first*-class, second-class, third-class prisoner. They are all punished in the prison house, but some of them are first class, some of them are second class. So similarly, within this material world it is called durgā. Durgā means fort, and the superintending deity is called Durgā, goddess material nature. So it is a fort like. You cannot go from here and there. You are trying so much to go from this planet to moon. You cannot do. Just like in the prison house, no prisoner can leave this place to go to another unless he is ordered to do so; similarly, we are conditioned. It is not possible, "Because we have manufactured some machine, by force I can go anywhere." No. That is not possible. That is not possible. You may do it for perpetually, but śāstra says if you practice piously, then you can be elevated to the higher planetary system. It is very easy, but we are so fool, we cannot understand that... Suppose in coming, either from India to America or America to..., we have to make so many arrangements: visa, passport, medical certificate, this, that. No country will allow you without all these things. So how you can go to the other planets without being equipped? This is foolishness. This is not possible. We are conditioned means we cannot go from here to there. There is rule and regulation. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. So this is futile attempt. Therefore the Vaiṣṇavas recommend that "Why you are foolishly attempting so many things? Just utilize this life for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Thank you very much. (end)



760609SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.43

-

Los Angeles, June 9, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "The candidates for punishment are those who are confirmed by these many witnesses to have deviated from their prescribed regulative duties. Everyone engaged in fruitive activities is suitable to be subjected to punishment according to his sinful acts."



Prabhupāda:



etair adharmo vijñātaḥ

sthānaṁ daṇḍasya yujyate

sarve karmānurodhena

daṇḍam arhanti kāriṇaḥ

[SB 6.1.43]



So you can say that "God is dead" or "There is no God," but that is not the fact. The atheist class of men, they want that there may not be any God; they can do whatever they like. That is not possible. Just like in a small state there are so many CID, police and so many other depart..., detectives, just to find out who is transgressing the law. So in this big government of the universe, how do you think that there is no system of finding out who is culprit? So what is adharma? Etair adharmo vijñātaḥ. Adharma, irreligiosity, or transgressing the law, that is adharma. Dharma and adharma... Dharma means obeying the laws. Just like good citizens means who is obeying the laws of the state. He is good citizen. And other person who is disobeying, they are called outlaws. So what is dharma? Just like it is the duty of good citizen to abide by the laws of the state, similarly, dharmī, a person who is religious, means who is abiding by the laws of God. That's all. And who is not abiding, he is adharmi. That is the difference.



So what is our dharma? Living entities, we are part and parcel of God; *we are not separated from God. Just like this finger is not separated from the whole body, a part of the body. So when Kṛṣṇa says that "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel..." Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Not that the part and parcel is differently created. As soon as the body is there, the part and parcel are also there. So what is the duty of the part and parcel? Just like this finger. I am feeling some itching sensation; immediately comes, naturally, without asking. It's always ready to serve. This is the duty of the part and parcel. So if we are part and parcel of God, then what is our duty? To serve God, that's all. This is our duty. So anyone who is serving always Kṛṣṇa, or God, he is dharmī; he is in dharma. And who is not serving is adharma. Because a duty... It requires treatment. This finger, part and parcel of my body. I want to get some service from the finger, but if the finger is diseased or due to some pain or some injury it cannot serve the body, it requires treatment. This is natural. Similarly, punishment means treatment. Why government has opened so many prison house? So this punishment... Government does not desire to keep the prison house open and inviting, "Please come here." No, that is not the policy. Policy is that "One who is outlaw, diseased, he should be brought here and corrected."

So Yamarāja is for this purpose. When we are punished that is no envious envy on the part of God or His agent; it is our correction, I think the Yamarāja, er, the Yamadūtas said in the beginning that "We have come to take Ajāmila just to correct him." So dharma and adharma... Our real dharma is to serve God. That is our real duty. And as soon as we neglect this permanent service or occupation, then we are liable to be punished. You cannot become independent of God. That is not possible. That will (not) make you happy. The healthy condition of the finger is that it is able to serve the body. If the finger is not able to serve the body, that will mean unhealthy. Otherwise... Similarly, when we are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and engaged in the service of the Lord, that is our healthy state. That is mukti, liberation. Mukti means no disease. So when we deny to serve Kṛṣṇa, when we are not engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, that is our diseased condition. That is not healthy condition.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a treatment to cure this disease, atheist and rogues, to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not an artificial thing to give you facility for your sense gratification. No. There is no question of sense gratification. That is disease. The healthy state is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Bhakti definition, you know:

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



That is bhakti, no other business. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Śūnyam means zero. We are singing, āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Make all... They could not understand. They are so much atheistic that it was impossible for them to understand what is God, what is devotion. So therefore Lord Buddha propounded the philosophy, "Make all your nonsense activities zero, so much. First of all make zero, then positive we shall say." That is zero movement, śūnyavādī. At least, if a rascal children is always doing something nonsense, then first of all stop him. Make him zero. Then good lesson: "Come. Do this." So this Buddhist movement means to make their atheistic activities zero. At least that is good. It is better not to... Maunam, silent. Instead of talking all nonsense, better be silent; *don't create disturbance. So... And the other movement, nirviśeṣa*-vādī, are giving little hint, Śaṅkarācārya, Māyāvāda, that "Yes, this zero is not sufficient. There is positive." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. His movement was that "This material world is false; make it zero. But there is a positive thing which is Brahman." What is that Brahman, he did not disclose.



Then the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, Rāmanujācārya, Madhvācārya, they said, brahma satya. And what is Brahman? Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. Brahman, first realization, impersonal; then localized; *then person. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "Long, long years ago, millions of years ago, I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god, Vivasvān." So, Kṛṣṇa, as He was instructing Arjuna, similarly, He was instructing the sun-god that... Arjuna is a person. Kṛṣṇa is a person. Similarly, sun*-god is also a person, and Kṛṣṇa is a person. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā that "My dear Arjuna, you, Me, and all of them who are standing here in this battlefield, we were existing in the past, we are existing now, and we shall continue to exist." So God is person; *we are also person. We existed in the past as person, we are existing now as person and we shall continue to exist as person. There is no question of imperson. If past, present, future, everywhere is a person, where is the question of imperson? So imperson means... Just like the sun-god is person, but the sunshine is imperson. Those who are in the sunshine, they cannot understand what is sun-god. That is not possible. It requires strength. If you want to go and see the sun-god Vivasvān, that requires qualification. It is not so easy. You cannot enter even the sun planet, what to speak of talking with him. But Kṛṣṇa could talk. Kṛṣṇa can go anywhere. And when there is sun-god, then "god" means not alone. A king does not mean alone. King means he has got his kingdom, he has got his subjects, he has got minister, he has got military strength. Everything is there. So similarly, if we accept Kṛṣṇa's statement that "I spoke to sun-god," the sun*-god is there in the sun globe, and he has his kingdom, so dazzling kingdom. It looks like fire, blazing. But don't think it is impersonal. Impersonal? How Kṛṣṇa could talk with him? There is no question of impersonality.

*So here, adharmaḥ vijñātaḥ, the degrees. Real dharma is, Kṛṣṇa is explaining in the Bhagavad..., sarva*-dharmān parityajya... [Bg. 18.66]. You have created, man-made, so many dharmas. So one Bengali Vaiṣṇava, he has mentioned, pṛthivite yaha kichu dharma nāme cale, bhāgavat kahe taha paripūrṇa chale. Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: [SB 1.1.2] "In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam all kaitava"-kaitava means cheating-"cheating type of religious religious system is kicked out." Projjhita, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra. So dharma is one; *religion is one. There cannot be different types of religion. That is concoction. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. I have several times... So dharma and adharma. These witnesses are there to see who is disobeying the orders of the Lord. That is adharma. A clear order is that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is jñāna, what is dharma, what is vairāgya.

*So we have got this opportunity, this human form of life. As I was saying yesterday, kṛṣṇa*-bhuliya jīva... Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karila. We do not know when, but since a very, very long time, anādi... Ādi means it is beginning of this creation. And before that, anādi. Anādi bahir-mukha jīva. We are forgetful of Kṛṣṇa since a very, very long time, and going within the cycle of birth and death, transmigration. So we get the opportunity, this human form of life. So we must revive our consciousness by going through, by understanding, by hearing these literatures. Veda-Purāṇa. Veda-Purāṇa. Anādi bahir-mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela. Our position is: we have forgotten God. But this forgetfulness can be subdued, and we can revive our original consciousness. Just like a man sleeping, but if you call him again and again, "Mr. such and such, get up. Get up. Now your time is to go to office and do this, to do that," similarly, although we are sleeping on the lap of māyā, kota nidrā yao māyā piśācīra kole, so we can be awakened by simply this chanting process, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

*So this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will cleanse our heart. We are loaded with so many dirty things, so this can be cleansed. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to cleanse the heart of the human being and get out all the..., projjhita, kick out all dirty things and concentrate on devotional service of Kṛṣṇa. And the beginning is śṛṇvatām, śṛṇvatām, this process. It doesn't require that you should be very rich man or you should be very educated or so on, so on. No. In whatever position you are, remain. There is no question of artificial improvement. There is no question. You remain. Simply God has given you the ear. Utilize it properly. That's all. You don't require to go to the university and get a Ph.D. degree and then you can understand. No. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that,

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

*jīvanti san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

*sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is so nice that you don't require to acquire something artificial. No. Wherever you are, remain there. Simply hear. And preaching means to propagate or to vibrate what Kṛṣṇa has said. So this is the position of the preacher, that you simply repeat, like a parrot, no qualification. You simply ... Whatever is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, you repeat. And the others simply hear. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam [SB 7.5.23]. Then both of them become liberated. There is no question of that, to become a qualified person. This is the only qualification, that a preacher should preach only what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. No manufacturing, no concoction. And the audience? They will hear from such person who does not speak anything else except Kṛṣṇa's teaching, that's all. These two things, if carried, then your both the life,(?) the śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, the one who is speaking and one who is hearing, both of them are benefited.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is opening so many centers just to give people opportunity to hear. To hear. So I am very glad that this church... This was a church, and nobody was coming here, and therefore it was sold to us. Now... You are all belonging to America, Los Angeles, and the church also was there. Now why it is crowded? It is not that you are imported from India to hear about Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So if there is substance, they will hear. If there is no substance, who will hear? That is the difference. So substance is here. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda*-purāṇa karila. You hear these Vedas and Purāṇas and make your life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750725SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.44

-

Los Angeles, July 25, 1975



Nitai: "O inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha, you are all sinless, but those within this material world, they are all karmīs acting piously or impiously. Both kinds of activities are possible for them because they are contaminated by the three modes of nature and must act accordingly. One who has accepted a material body cannot remain inactive, and it is inevitable for one acting under the modes of nature to be sinful. Therefore all the living entities within this material world are punishable."



Prabhupāda:



sambhavanti hi bhadrāṇi

viparītāni cānaghāḥ

*kāriṇāṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sti

*dehavān na hy akarma*-kṛt

[SB 6.1.44]



*So dehavān we have explained several times. Deha means the body, and vān means one who possesses. Asty arthe vatup. This vat*-pratyāya is affixed when there is the meaning of possessing. Therefore Bhagavān. Bhāga means opulence, and vān means one who possesses. That is Bhagavān. So same thing, in the same process: dehavān. So dehavān, every one of us, dehavān. The dog is also dehavān; he has got body. I am also dehavān, every one of us.



*So anyone who has got this material body, he cannot stop even for a moment working something. Na hy akarma*-kṛt. This is the nature. He must do some... Just as child. Child is always restless. Similarly... "Child is the father of man." One who becomes father, the same restlessness because that is the nature. Na hi dehavān akarma-kṛt. So if you are not engaged in good work, then you must act badly. That is natural. You have to work. Therefore idle brain is devil's workshop. If you are sitting idly, then brain also will work, mind also will work. The bodily function will go. So if you don't engage yourself in good work, then you must be engaged in bad work. And if you are not engaged in good work and if you are engaged in... There are two things, good or bad. So in one of them we must be engaged.

*So if we are not instructed or trained up to act in good work, then we must be doing bad work. Bad work means māyā and good work means God. There are two things, God and māyā. If we do not act in godly situation then we must be acting in māyā's clutches. That is explained in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta in a very simple verse, nāna māyāra dāsa, kari nāna abhilāṣa: "As soon as I become servant of māyā, then I shall create so many rascaldom in the name of philosophy and science." This is going on. So-called philosophy and science means all rascaldom, bad work. It is very challenging word, but this is the fact. If we do not... Take for example... There are so many scientists, so many philosophers and so many hippies also, LSD men. Why this has happened? Because there is no good engagement. Some are passing in the name of so-called scientist and so-called philosopher, and some of them are hippies, but all of them are engaged in bad, asat. Asat and sat. Sat means permanent, and asat means temporary.

So we must know what is our constitutional position. That we do not know. We are sat, eternal; *therefore we shall act in such a way that will benefit my eternal life. That is sat. Therefore the Vedas instruct, asato mā sad gamaḥ: "Don't be engaged in temporary activities, bodily..." Bodily necessities means temporary. If I am child, my body is of a child's body, then my necessities are different from my father's necessities. So everyone is engaged in bodily necessities. Therefore it is said, dehavān na hy akarma*-kṛt. And kāriṇāṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sti. Infection. We have got this practical understanding. If your body infects some disease, then you have to suffer. And if your body remains uninfected, unaffected by any poisonous..., then you remain healthy. Therefore it is said, sambhavanti hi bhadrāṇi viparītāni cānaghaḥ. Viparītāni. Viparī means just opposite. Sambhavanti bhadrāṇi. One is acting in auspicity, and one is acting viparītāni, just the opposite, inauspicity. In this way we are becoming entangled, life after life. Karinam guṇa-sango 'sti. In other place it is said, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa: [SB 3.31.1] "As we are acting auspicious or inauspicious, by higher supervision, higher consideration, judgment, we are getting different body." Otherwise why there are so many varieties of body? This is the cause. One is getting auspicious body, one is getting inauspicious body, but there is one opportunity that... If you want to change materially your auspicious or inauspicious position, that cannot be done. It is fixed up. It cannot be done otherwise. Suppose a man has got a nice body; a dog has got inferior body. You cannot change the... Bodily, you cannot make a man dog or a dog man. That is not possible. But spiritually, you can make. Spiritually, a bad man or bad dog even can be elevated to the highest perfection.

*Therefore the conclusion is if you act spiritually, then it is bhadrāṇi, or auspicious. If you act materially, on the bodily concept of life, that is inauspicious. This is the conclusion. And that is being watched by the authorities, as we have already explained, the witnesses. God is the original chastiser or awarder, but there are so many witnesses. That we have already discussed. Sūryaḥ agniḥ khaṁ marud devaḥ somaḥ. Everywhere it is thoroughly watched. So we must be very careful that we have got this human form of body*-how to act? The act means first of all you know what is your position. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Your position is that you are not this body. Your position is that you are the proprietor of the body, you are spirit soul." So if people are not educated on this understanding, that the soul is different from body, that is... The beginning of education is wrong. Therefore whatever further advancement of so-called education is wrong, because the basic principle is wrong.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means they want to educate people, rectifying the basic principle of misconception: "I am body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am fat," "I am thin," "I am black," "I am white"-all bodily conception. This has to be removed first of all. So the śāstra says that if one is in the bodily concept of life, then he is no more better than an animal. No better than an animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. We have discussed many times. This bodily concept of life should be first of all removed. We must be enlightened. Otherwise, if we act on the bodily concept of life, then*-not bhadrāṇi, not auspicious-everything is inauspicious, viparītāni. Sambhavanti hi bhadrāṇi viparītāni cānaghaḥ, kāriṇām. Kāriṇām means one who is working. Nobody is... Because dead stone, that is sitting idly, but any..., even a small ant, it is also working. That is the difference between matter and the spirit. So we cannot understand this difference, that what is the difference between matter and spirit. Why the big mountain does not move? Because it is dead matter. And a small ant, it moves. Why it is so? That is the difference between matter and spirit. Why you are misunderstanding that "The spirit is also matter; it is coming from chemical"? This miseducation is going on that spirit is also chemical composition, although I cannot experiment it by mixing chemical, producing...

So under this misconception of life we are simply acting inauspiciously. Why inauspiciously? Because we are working blindly. We do not know what is my next life, or we do not believe in next life. But you believe or not believe; next life is there. As the child has his next life, the boy has his next life, the youth has his next life, similarly, the old man has got his next life. You believe or not believe; *you have to accept next life. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. This is real education. You have to accept the next life. Now, what kind of next life you will get, you have to prepare in this life. That is auspicious. That is bhadrāṇi. And if you don't prepare for the next life, irresponsible... Just like a street boy does not take education because he has no idea of next life. But his father, his mother, is anxious that "My son's next life, future life, will be spoiled if he does not take education." They are anxious. Similarly, the father and the mother, the guru, the friend*-everyone should be actually well-wisher of his friend, dependent, when he gives spiritual education. Then he is friend. Otherwise they are enemy. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sa syāt. The sastric contraception means that "If you cannot educate your sons how to stop repetition of birth, then don't become a father. Don't become a mother." This is śāstric... "Don't become a guru. Don't become so on, so on, well-wisher, if you cannot stop."

*So how it can be stopped? Unless there is spiritual education, unless one is spiritually enlightened, you have to undergo the process of birth, death, old age and disease. You may talk very highly and foolishly, but the process of nature, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9], that you cannot stop. That is... Therefore any education which does not give enlightenment on the subject matter of how to stop death, they are all foolish talking. That's all. This is the conclusion, not bhadrāṇi, abhadrāṇi. Sambhavanti bhadrāṇi viparītāni cānaghaḥ, kāriṇāṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sti. Guṇa-saṅgaḥ. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the association of goodness. There are three guṇas. Just like in a brothel, they are giving the association of darkness, similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is opening so many centers to give the facility to the people in general the association of goodness. That is the difference. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. If you associate with persons addicted to so many drugs or brothel men, then you will become like that. And if you associate with the Kṛṣṇa conscious men, then you become Kṛṣṇa conscious; you understand what is your real position, what is the aim of life, how to stop birth, death, old age. This is the profit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And actually, learned, educated circle, they are appreciating that "Government spends so much money for stopping the drug habit, but they have failed. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement have saved so many hippies and young men from this fallen condition of life." That is the practical way. Anyone who has got intelligence, they will see to it.

*Therefore this movement should be encouraged. Especially I request my students that you push on this movement. Your country is very good. Let them become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be bhadrāṇi, all auspicious, bhadrāṇi. Otherwise your so*-called big, big motorcars will create abhadrāṇi, viparītāni. We don't discourage you to construct big, big cars, but it should be used for the kīrtana party to go to village to village, not to go to the brothels and liquor shop. Then you are ruined. You can use it, all the facilities. The microphone should be used for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not talking nonsense. This should be this... Everything is good, provided it is used for good purpose. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta vairāgyam ucyate. We are not such foolish person that "This is material, this microphone. We shall not touch it." No, we are not so fool. We are intelligent enough how to use it. That's all. That is Rūpa Gosvāmī's instruction:

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

*hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ

*phalgu*-vairāgyaḥ kath...



Prāpañcika means material, artificial abnegation or renouncement. The Māyāvādīs, they say, "No, no, it is material." The other day we saw that Suśīla Muni. Suśīla Munis, they are Jains. According to Jain philosophy, they should..., they do not use any vehicle from going this place to another place. They will go by walking. That is their principle. But we are not following that principle. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Suppose if I have to come to your country, and if I say, "I will go by walking." (laughter) Then my life will be finished (laughter) before preaching. We are intelligent. Now we have got this aeroplane. Take advantage of and go in three hours to America, speedy. That is our policy. Therefore sometimes people criticize us that we are accepting all material things; still, we are condemning material civilization. They accuse us. But they do not know that we do not distinguish matter and spirit. Anything which is used for Kṛṣṇa, that is spirit. This house, if you use for making a club, dancing club, that is material. And if this house is used for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and dancing, that is spiritual. That is the difference, because actually everything is emanation from the supreme spirit soul, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo 'nalaḥ vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, apareyam. What you say material, that is also expansion of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. So actually it is not material. But when you use it for other purposes than Kṛṣṇa, that is material. You should know this philosophy very nicely.



*Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari*-sambandhi. Īśāvāsyam idam sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything has got relationship with God. We must know that, that nothing can exist without God. Therefore in other sense, everything is God. So everything is God, then how it is material? It is material when it is not used for God. This is material. And if it is used for God, Kṛṣṇa, then it is... Therefore, abhadrāṇi and bhadrāṇi, two things, are to be distinguished. How? This is the process. Try to engage everything in God's service. Then it is bhadrāṇi. And as soon as it is being done for your sense gratification, then it is abhadrāṇi. Try to understand. Two things are there.

sambhavanti bhadrāṇi

viparītāni cānaghaḥ

*kāriṇāṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sti

*dehavān na hy akarma*-kṛt



Everyone has to work. Nobody can avoid work. But on account of ignorance, one works in darkness, and on account of light or enlightenment, one works in light. So we have to work in light. This is light working, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, bhakti. Bhakti means...



māṁ cavyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*There is said guṇa*-saṅgaḥ, infected by the modes of material nature. But Kṛṣṇa says anyone, māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena, avyabhicāriṇi, without any stoppage, twenty-four hours, if one is engaged in devotional service, avyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena ya sevate, serving Kṛṣṇa, then he is no more in the guṇa-saṅgaḥ. Here it is said guṇa-saṅgaḥ, infection of the material qualities. So if one is twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, he is no more in touch with these three guṇas. Otherwise he will be in touch with the guṇas, different guṇas, and he will be infected, and you have to... Just like if you infect some disease, you have to suffer from that particular disease. This is going on.



*So bhadrāṇi, auspicity or auspicious activities, is this, devotional service. Be engaged always, twenty*-four hours, in devotional service. There we have got program, early morning, 4:30, up through 9:30 in the evening. This is all auspicious activities. We are giving chance people: "Come here and join this auspicious activity so that you will be saved from this repetition of birth, death and old age."

Thank you very much. (end)



760610SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.44

-

Los Angeles, June 10, 1976



Pradyumna: Translation: "O inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha, you are sinless, but those within this material world are all karmīs, whether acting piously or impiously. Both kinds of action are possible for them because they are contaminated by the three modes of nature and must act accordingly. One who has accepted a material body cannot be inactive, and sinful action is inevitable for one acting under the modes of material nature. Therefore all the living entities within this material world are punishable."



Prabhupāda:



sambhavanti hi bhadrāṇi

viparītāni cānaghāḥ

*kāriṇāṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sti

*dehavān na hy akarma*-kṛt

[SB 6.1.44]



*This material world is karma-kṛt*-you have to do something. Kṛṣṇa has explained that "Without acting, you cannot even maintain your body and soul together." Śarīra-yātrāpi te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. If you become idle, then you cannot even maintain your body. That is the difference between civilized man and uncivilized man or developed country... (aside:) Stop that. Developed country and undeveloped country. Just like America. This land was inhabited by the Red Indians. They could not do anything, but the Europeans, when they migrated, they made it so beautiful country. So karma-kṛt, one has to work. This material world is so made. Tṛtīyā karma-saṅgā anyā śaktir īṣyate.



*In the Padma Purāṇa, Viṣṇu Purāṇa: parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. God's energy are varieties. All those varieties are grouped into three divisions. Out of that... Three divisions means tatastha-śakti, antarāṅga-śakti, cit*-chakti. Tatastha-śakti and this external, or this karma-śakti... The... Tṛtīyā śaktiḥ karma-saṅgā anyā. It is mentioned that the spiritual world is just manifestation of cic-chakti, and this material world is creation of material energy or karma-saṅgā, where everyone has to work. Without work, it is said, na hi suptasya siṁhasya praviśanti mukhe mṛgāḥ. That is very nice example. In the forest the lion is supposed to be the mightiest animal, and he is sometimes called the king of the animals, paśu-rāja. So in one place it is said that even the lion, who is the king of the forest, if he sleeps and he thinks that animals will come and enter in his mouth, that is not possible. He has to also find out how to eat. Na hi suptasya siṁhasya praviśanti mukhe mṛgāḥ. The lion is so powerful, but he cannot also dictate.

So there is another story,

buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya

nirbuddhes tu kuto balam

paśya siṁho madonmataḥ

śaśakena nipātitaḥ



There is a story that a lion was killed by a rabbit. Śaśakena nipātitaḥ. Why? Now, buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya: "One who has got intelligence, he has got power." A lion is very mighty, ferocious animal, and a śaśaka, a ordinary rabbit, he killed a lion. How? Now the lion was disturbing all animals, so all the animals held a meeting and called the lion: "Sir, you do not try to kill us all, hunting after everyone. We shall go voluntarily every day, one of us. So you don't create disturbance. Let us become peaceful." So lion agreed, "All right, if you voluntarily come, I will sleep, and if you enter in my mouth..." So this was the agreement. There was the turn of one rabbit. So he planned something. So he went to the lion a little late. So lion was very angry that "Why you have come late? I am very hungry, and you did not come." (laughter) So the rabbit said, "Sir, there was a danger in the way." "What is that?" "There is another lion, and he wanted to kill me and eat, so I protested, 'No, sir, you cannot kill me. (laughter) I am destined to be killed by such and such lion, so you cannot do it.' " So he was very much pleased: "Where is that lion?" "Please come. I will show you." So he took him near one well. So he... The rabbit said, "He is living within this." (laughter) The lion immediately... "Come on. Make a how!' " So there was vibration, still higher sound, and he saw his photo, yes, shadow. So he thought it, "Yes, there is lion." He immediately jumped over him. (devotees laugh) Finished. So how the lion was killed by the rabbit? Now, buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya: "One who has got intelligence, he has got power." The foolish... So everywhere you will find.



*So how one is intelligent, how one is dull, how one is via media*-that is due to these three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. If one is intelligent, that is one of the qualification of sattva-guṇa. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. The brahminical qualification... Satyaḥ śamo damo titikṣa arjavam eva ca, jñānam vijñānam āstikyam brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. In the society, human society, there must be a class of brāhmaṇa, intelligent class. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to create a section of the human society-real brāhmaṇa, intelligence. And the intelligence means Veda. Veda means knowledge. Knowledge... One who has got sufficient knowledge, he is intelligence, not the fool, rascal. So therefore the... There is Vedas, and there are Vedānta, Vedānta. Veda, Vedānta, source of knowledge. So Vedas means knowledge, and Veda-anta... Anta means the last word. So that anta knowledge, or the last word in knowledge, is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ, they say. Knowledge, expansion of knowledge, the last word is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So it is the explanation of Vedānta. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. Vedānta's another name is Brahma-sūtra. In India there are Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. They advertise themselves as the Vedāntists, "one who knows Vedānta." But actually they do not know Vedānta. Real Vedānta is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because this is commentary. Bhāṣya ayaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām. Brahma-sūtra is Vedānta.

*So Vedānta, what is that Vedānta? That is explained by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam: [Bg. 15.15] "Vedas means to understand Me." That is Veda. If one does not understand Kṛṣṇa, his so-called Vedic knowledge or Vedānta knowledge is useless, śrama eva hi kevalam, simply labor.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



Everyone is engaged in executing a particular type of faith or religious system, ritualistic. That's all right. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ. You are Hindu; *you are doing your Hindu ritualistic ceremony or religious rules and regulations. Or a Christian is doing nicely, or a Muhammadan is doing... That's all right, but we are interested-those who are followers of real Vedānta*-to see the result. Phalena paricīyate. Phalena means "by the result." So what is the result? The result is by executing one's particular type of religious system, he must develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. That is the test. If you are unaware of what is God, what do you mean by God, and you are very, very religious, that is useless. One must know God. So therefore, those who are in the lowest grade of human life, they cannot understand. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Narādhama ... Nara means human being, and adhamāḥ means the lowest. So one who is in the lowest grade of human society, they are called the śvapaca. Śvapaca. Śvapaca means those who are the dog-eaters. So in this way there is description. There are others also.



So here the same thing is...

sambhavanti hi bhadrāṇi

viparītāni cānaghāḥ

*kāriṇāṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sti...



*This guṇa*-saṅga... Why one is in the lowest grade, and why... There are three grades generally, and if you mix it, it becomes eighty-one. Three into three equal to nine; *nine into nine, eighty*-one. Therefore we have got so many species of life, 8,400,000. So how it is possible? Now, guṇa-saṅgo 'sti. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Why there are different varieties of life, so many, 8,400,000? Now, what is the reason? Kāraṇam... Kāraṇam means reason, the cause. Guṇa-saṅga. Guṇa-saṅga. Now, here is temple, and a few yards after this temple there may be a brothel, there may be liquor house. So somebody is coming here, and somebody is going there. So what is the reason? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṇgo 'sti. One is attached to sattva-guṇa; *one is attached to rajo*-guṇa; *one is attached... But everyone is working, and that working must be under the influence of one of these three qualities: sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa.



*So if one associates with the sattva*-guṇa, then he is promoted gradually to the higher planetary system. Higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Everything explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are developing the good qualities of this material world, three qualities, so ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. The upper planetary system, heavenly planetary system... Therefore we say that you cannot go to the moon planet, from the śāstra. Because the moon planet, who will go? Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. Unless one is in the modes of goodness, they cannot enter there. It is not possible. "By force," if you say, "Yes, we have gone; *we are going," you may say, but we are followers of the śāstra. Śāstra*-cakṣuṣaḥ. We see through the śāstra. We understand that these men, they are not even rajo-guṇa, or maybe in rajas-tamo-guṇa. But where is sattva-guṇa? Sattva-guṇa. So through the śāstra we can understand that who is who through śāstra. Therefore in my poetry, on the strength of śāstra, I said that rajas tamo guṇe erā sabāi ācchanna, vāsudeva-kathā ruci mahe se prasanna: [SB 1.2.16] "Most of the population here is covered by the material modes of ignorance and passion. Absorbed in material life, they think themselves very happy and satisfied; *therefore they have no taste for the transcendental message of Vāsudeva. So I do not know how they will be able to understand it." Actually that is the fact. Everyone, so many swamis and yogis, come in this country. So they advertise in India that they went out of India for preaching Vedānta. But being influenced, what Vedānta they learned? When they returned to India, they have learned how to entice women and how to eat meat. This is their Vedānta. Because kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya. If you are not strong enough, then association will induce or influence. If you are not a Vaiṣṇava, then if you go in a brothel or a liquor house, then you will be influenced by the drunkards and prostitute-hunters. But if you are strong enough, then you will... The effect you will give your effect of association; they will be Vaiṣṇavas. That is the difference.

*There is a scientific story that one doctor friend, perhaps you know, the Dr. Ghosh who came. When he was student, he read in a medical magazine that one girl..., her name was Mary. So there was a Mary contamination. What is that? Typhoid, yes. Wherever she used to go, there was typhoid fever, so many people suffering, but she was not suffering. So by analysis of the blood, it was found that this girl, the blood was full of typhoid germs, but she was so strong that she could resist. She was not suffering, but wherever she used to go, everyone was infected with typhoid. So that is the explained. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. If you are strong enough, then the lower qualities will not affect you. And if you are not strong, if you are weak yourself, then where you are going to convert, they will induce their infectious quality, and you will be victimized. So kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṇgo 'sya. So in the Western countries, everywhere, all over the world at the present moment, Kali-yuga, the guṇa, the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, is very prominent. The rajo-guṇa... How it is understood that the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, is prominent? Now, the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, the symptom, rajas-tamo bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhadayaś ca ye... Tada rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhadayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. When one is infected with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, the symptoms will be that he is very greedy and lusty. This is the symptom. If one is very greedy and lusty, then you should know that he is infected with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. And if one is not greedy and lusty-satisfied in every circumstances, and is Kṛṣṇa conscious or trying to become Kṛṣṇa conscious-then it is sattva-guṇa. He is turned.

*So by the culture of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one comes to the sattva*-guṇa, the immediate effect, sattva-guṇa. Just like our students: little association with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they immediately come to the sattva-guṇa, at least officially. Although rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, was there, but it overlaps. So how it overlaps? What is this process?

*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

*hṛdy antaḥ*-stho abhadrāṇi

*vidhunoti su*-hṛt-satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*Kṛṣṇa is within everyone. If we simply hear the words and the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ... So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā-full of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's instruction. So if we hear this, especially these two books, Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, then you become pious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. There is no need of separate attempt. If we simply hear every moment or as many times as possible, then we become purified. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. One who is speaking, he is also becoming pious, and one who is hearing, he is also becoming pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ.



*So, pious? What is the meaning of pious? Śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho abhadrāṇi. The... Everything is causing effects within the heart, within the heart. The civilization or not civilization means the change of heart. A man is civilized because he has changed his heart. A man is uncivilized? He has not changed. Just like you know the story of Sik... What is that? Sikari? The name, I forgot.

Candanācārya: Mṛgārī?



*Prabhupāda: Mṛgārī, yes. So Mṛgārī was in the lowest status of tamo*-guṇa. He was killing animals half-dead, and he was enjoying. But when he became Kṛṣṇa conscious, elevated, he was not prepared to kill even one ant. You know this story. That is the change, change of heart. The same man, same man who was killing animals in the jungle half-dead... And when Nārada Muni asked him that "Why you are killing half? Kill them complete. They are suffering. You will be more sinful," he said, "My father taught me that this is pleasure."



*So this is going on, tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa. But if we simply hear this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā... Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. How it is possible? Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. This abhadra-inauspicious, nasty things within our heart, most uncivilized way of life, killing of animals*-this will be stopped. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. By hearing the message of God, bhāgavataṁ bhaktiḥ uttama-śloke bhavati naiṣṭhikī, gradually you become devotee. This is the process, how to transcend the material qualities. That is explained.

*So this, my song... I was thinking on board the ship that rajas tamo gune erā sabāi ācchanna, vāsudeva*-kathā ruci mahe se prasanna [SB 1.2.16]. Nobody is interested. At the present moment, everyone is covered by the rajas-tamaḥ, the base qualities, ignorance and passion, so they have no interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. One has to purify himself. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhadayaś... [SB 1.2.19]. When we kill the rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ, ceta etair anāviddham... When our heart is no more contaminated by the rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ, ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. There are three guṇas. If you make minus these two guṇas, rajas-tamo-guṇa, then the remaining-only sattva-guṇa. So these rajas-tamo-guṇa can be counteracted simply by hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. So therefore I wrote, tabe jadi tava kṛpā hay ahaitukī, sakala sambhava hay tumi se kautikī, that "God is all-powerful, Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. He can do everything impossible, possible." So whatever is being done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, don't think that it is my influence of my... It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa can do everything. He can change sattva-guṇa into tamo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa into rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa into sattva-guṇa. That is as He likes. Just like a expert electrician: he can turn the heater into cooler and cooler into heater. The electric energy is the same. Similarly, parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He has His energy. If He likes... My point is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has come to your country by the will of Kṛṣṇa. So here is favorable situation because the will of Kṛṣṇa is there, that "Now the Westerners, especially the Americans, they should become Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is His will. So you take the opportunity, cooperate with Kṛṣṇa, and you will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750726SB.LB

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.45

-

Laguna Beach, July 26, 1975



Nitai: "In this life, any person to the proportionate degree of the varieties of work, either religious or irreligious, as they are performed in the next life also, the same person to the same degree, the same variety, the resultant action of his karma must enjoy or suffer."



Prabhupāda:



yena yāvān yathādharmo

dharmo veha samīhitaḥ

*sa eva tat*-phalaṁ bhuṅkte

tathā tāvad amutra vai

[SB 6.1.45]



*So in the previous verse we have discussed, dehavān na hy akarma*-kṛt. Anyone who has got this material body, he has to work. Everyone has to work. In the spiritual body also you have to work. In the material body also you have to work. Because the working principle is the soul-soul is living force-so he is busy. Living body means there is movement. There is work. He cannot sit idly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Not even for a moment one can be idle." That is the symptom of living being. So this working is going on according to the particular body. The dog is also running, and a man is also running. But a man thinks he is very much civilized because he is running on motorcar. Both of them are running, but a man has got a particular type of body by which he can prepare a vehicle or cycle, and he can run on. He is thinking that "I am running in greater speed than the dog; therefore I am civilized. This is the modern mentality. He does not know that what is the difference between running on fifty miles speed or five miles speed or five thousand miles speed or five millions miles of speed. The space is unlimited. Whatever speed you discover, it is still insufficient. Still insufficient.



So this is not life, that "Because I can run in more speed than the dog, therefore I am civilized."

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānāṁ

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*Our speed... What for speed? Because we want to go to certain destination, that is his speed. So the real destination is Govinda, Viṣṇu. And na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. They are running in different speed, but they do not know what is the destination. Our one big poet in our country, Rabindranath Tagore, he wrote an article*-I read it-when he was in London. So in your country, western countries, the motorcars and the..., they run in high speed. So Rabindranath Tagore, he was poet. He was thinking that "These Englishmen's is country so small, and they are running on so great speed they will fall in the ocean." He remarked like that. Why they are running so fast? So similarly, we are running so fast for going to hell. This is our position, because we do not know what is the destination. If I do not know what is the destination and try to drive my car in full speed, then what will be the result? The result will be disaster. We must know why we are running. Running means just like the river is running in great tide, flowing, but the destination is the sea. When the river comes to the sea, then its destination gone. So similarly, we must know what is the destination. The destination is Viṣṇu, God. We are part and parcel of God. We are... Somehow or other, we are fallen in this material world. Therefore our destination of life will be to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our destination. There is no other destination. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching that "You fix up your goal of life." And what is that goal of life? "Back to home, back to Godhead. You are going this side, opposite side, toward the side of hell. That is not your destination. You go this side, back to Godhead." That is our propaganda.



So we have not manufactured this; *this is the standard. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. "Why you are unnecessarily running just like dog?" That street dog, we have seen just now on the beach, he has no master. So sometimes he is running this way, sometimes this running way, and he saw us. He knows-after all, he is a living being*-that "There are some Vaiṣṇavas. So let me go with them if they will give us shelter." That is the purpose. He was coming. You were making, "Hut!" (laughter) But he wanted some master, because a dog without master, his position is very precarious. Without master... So we are all servant. Every one of us, we are all servants of māyā. Māyā means we are servant of our desires. We are servant of our different desires. Somebody is thinking, "I shall be happy in this way"; somebody is thinking, "I shall be happy in this way." In this way we have got different desires, and we are servant of the desires. So servant of desire means just like the street dog. He is also desiring: "If these gentleman will accept me as his dog?" But he is going there, and he is driven away: "Hut! Hut!" He is going to some house, moving his tail, "My dear sir, will you give me some food?" "No, no. Go away." We are also going also: "My dear sir, will you give me some service?" "No vacancy. Get out." This is our position. Hana māyāra dāsa kori nāna abhilāṣa. Because we are constitutionally servant of God, but we have given up that service, we have now become the servant of māyā. Therefore our life is frustrated, because you do not know "What is my actual position." Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching, that "Why you are going door to door like a dog: 'Will you give me some food, give me some duty? I am prepared to serve you,' and refusing, nāna abhilāṣa, and desiring again and again, this way, that way?" But I do not know what is my real destination, how I shall be happy. That information is given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "You are suffering in this way for a permanent service to become happy. Why you are going here and there? You are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Go there. Then you will be happy."

*This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are teaching people that you are suffering life after life. Now the human society has come to such a position that they do not know that there is life after this life. They are so advanced. Exactly the cats and dogs, they do not know that there is life after life. That is here stated: yena yāvān yathādharmo dharmo veha samīhitaḥ. Iha, iha means "in this life." Sa eva tat*-phalaṁ bhuṅkte tathā tāvat amutra vai. Amutra means "next life." So we are preparing our next life in this... Yatha adharmaḥ, yathā dharmaḥ. There are two things: you can act piously or impiously. There is no third, no third path. One path is pious; one path is nonpious. So here both are mentioned. Yena yāvān yathādharmaḥ, dharmaḥ. Dharma means constitutional. Dharma does not mean, as it is stated in some of the English dictionary, "a kind of faith." Faith may be blind. That is not dharma. Dharma means original, constitutional position. That is dharma. I have several times said... Just like water. Water is liquid. That is its dharma. Water, if by circumstantially it becomes solid, ice, but still, it tries to become again liquid because that is its dharma. You put ice, and gradually it will become liquid. That means this solid condition of the water is artificial. By some chemical composition the water has become solid, but by natural course it becomes liquid.

*So our present position is solid: "Don't hear anything about God." But natural position is that we are servant of God. Because we are seeking master... The supreme master is Kṛṣṇa. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the master of the whole creation. I am the enjoyer." He is the master. Caitanya-caritāmṛta also said, ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa. Īśvara means controller or master. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya: "Except Kṛṣṇa, they are, any big or small living entity, they are all servants, except Kṛṣṇa." You will therefore see: Kṛṣṇa is not serving anybody. He is simply enjoying. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka... Others like us, they first of all work very hard, and then enjoys. Kṛṣṇa never works. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāranaṁ ca vidyate. Still, He enjoys. That is Kṛṣṇa. Na tasya... This is the Vedic information. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāranaṁ ca vidyate: "God, Kṛṣṇa, He has nothing to do." You see, therefore, Kṛṣṇa always dancing with the gopīs and playing with the cowherd boys. And when He feels fatigue, He lies down on the Yamunā and immediately His friends come. Somebody fans Him; somebody gives massage. Therefore He is the master. Anywhere He goes, He is master. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. "Then who is controller?" No, there is no controller of Him. That is Kṛṣṇa. Here we are director of such and such, president of United States, but I am not supreme controller. As soon as the public wants, immediately pulls me down. That we do not understand, that we are posing ourself as master controller, but I am controlled by somebody else. So he is not controller. Here we will find a controller to some extent, but he is controlled by another controller. So Kṛṣṇa means He is controller, but nobody is there to control Him. That is Kṛṣṇa; that is God. This is the science of understanding. God means He is controller of everything, but He has no controller.

*So we are, at the present moment in different conditions of life on account of our different activities, pious and impious, dharma, adharma. So pious activities means to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa, and impious activities means to be controlled by māyā. We have to be controlled. Our position is such that we cannot become controller. That is not possible. If we want to become controller, that is my artificial desire. And the resultant action we will have to suffer. First of all you must understand this, that we are controlled. Either you agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa or you agree to be controlled by māyā, but you cannot become controller. Is there anyone here who can say that "I am controller"? Is there anyone who will answer this? So I may think that "I am controller," but I am controlled by drugs, by sense gratification, desires*-kāma krodha lobha moha mātsarya. So there is no question of the living entity's being independent. That is not possible. He is dependent. But if he becomes dependent on Kṛṣṇa, then life is successful. Exactly the position, the dog. The dog is loitering without being controlled by somebody, he is seeking, "Somebody may control me." He's seeking position. But if he does not get anybody to control him, his life is very precarious; he is not happy. Therefore, if you want to be happy, then we must return to our own original position: to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa. This is perfection of life.

*So here it is said generally, yena yāvān yathādharmaḥ. Adharma I have already explained. Dharma means to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and adharma means to become servant of māyā. This is the distinction between dharma and adharma, religious and irreligious. Dharma means the order of God, Kṛṣṇa. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. As I have explained several times... Just like law. Law means the order of the government. If somebody, ordinary man, makes some law, nobody will accept that law. That is not law. But government gives some law that "Keep to the right," you have to obey it. If you break this law, you will be punished. You can say, "What wrong I have done? Instead of going to the right, I have gone to the left. Both ways there are roads and streets." The government says, "No, I ordered you to keep to the right. You have violated. You must be punished." Simple thing. This is adharma: "You have violated the laws of the government. You must be punished." So a dog, of course, if he violates the law, he is not punished. The punishment is meant for the human being, because he has got developed sense. He cannot violate the laws. If he violates... All the books, laws, everything-education, culture, philosophy, science*-it is all meant for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. So the human being must know what is the actual law. That is dharma. Therefore in the human society there is some form of dharma. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist, throughout the whole world, any civilized nation, they have got some dharma or religious system. Why? Through it, you should understand what is the goal of your life. If you do not know that, then proportionately, as you are ignorant, fool, you will be punished. You will be punished.

So nature's way, evolution... The punishment is beginning from the aquatics. Then gradually, gradually, by evolutionary process, nature gives the chance that from aquatics you become plants and trees; then from plants and trees you become insect, reptiles; then from that, you become bird; then from that, you become beast; and from that beast, you become human being. In this way, by evolutionary process, you come to the platform of becoming a human being. Now, developed consciousness, you have to decide, "Where... Whom I shall serve now? I have... So long I have served the laws of material nature, and it has brought me to this platform." Now you have to decide, "What kind of service I shall accept?" That is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Jijñāsā means enquiry. A sane man will understand that "I have been engaged in different types of service, now by evolutionary process, I have come to the human form of life. What is my real service? Under whom I shall work? Shall I loiter in the street like the dog, or find out some good master?" This is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā.

*So the śāstra... You have to learn from the śāstra that who is the master. I have to serve. The master is Kṛṣṇa. And that is our natural position. And if we do not serve Kṛṣṇa, if we serve a big man or a demigod or any other but he is not Kṛṣṇa, that is adharma. So dharma and adharma, these two things, are there. You serve either of them. But the result-according to your service. If you are serving as high-court judge, that salary, and if you serving as ordinary, what is called, washer of dishes, that salary cannot be equal. You cannot expect, becoming a dishwasher, to draw the same salary as the high-court judge is drawing. That is not possible. Therefore it is said, sa eva tat-phalaṁ bhuṅkte. You get... You can become high-court judge. There is no, I mean to say, obstacle. You could be qualified like the high-court judge. Now you are qualified like this, so you have to accept this. Therefore it is said, sa eva tat-phalaṁ bhuṅkte tathā tāvat amutra vai. Amutra. So our life is continuity, eternal. Just like a boy takes education, expecting to become one day high-court judge. But one who has not taken education*-he simply played in the street-how he can become a high-court judge? It is not possible. Therefore it is said, sa eva tat-phalaṁ bhuṅkte tathā tāvat amutra, "in future life." But these rascals, they do not know what is future life. This is modern civilization. They are so rascal. But there is future life. So in this life, if you prepare yourself for the next life, then you are intelligent. If you remain irresponsible rascal, do not know what is going to happen next life, then you will have to suffer. That we must know. How I shall know? What I shall prepare for, and where shall I go? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. If you act in goodness, then you will be promoted to the higher planetary system, devān, where demigods live. They have ten thousand years of life, very high standard of life. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. And if you are attached to pitṛ-loka, you can go there. Bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni. And if you are materially attracted, then you will remain in this material... Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām: "If you My become devotee, you'll come to Me." Now it is your choice. Make your choice, what you want.

*So what is the difference between going to the heavenly planet and going to Kṛṣṇa? The difference is ābrahma*-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna: "My dear Arjuna, if you go even to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, you will again fall down." Then? Mad-gatvā na nivartante: "If you come to Me, you will have not..." So why not select this, that "I have to work for the next life. Why not devote this life for Kṛṣṇa? I shall go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa"? This is intelligence. I am suffering so many lives, accepting this fish life or the tree life, the plant life, the moth life, the insect life, the serpent life, the bird's life. And not only bird's life-there are so many varieties of birds, beginning from the eagle. There is a big eagle bird. We have no information. They are very big bird. They are flying in the sky, and their rest is from one planet to another. Just like here you find the birds, they are flying from one tree to another. Similarly, there are so big birds... They are called garuḍa. So garuḍa, these birds, they start their flying from one planet and sits in another planet. Just try to understand what is their flying. Not only that, they also lay eggs while flying, and the eggs, while falling down, it becomes another bird. And these birds can pick up elephants for eating. So this is God's creation. So if you want to become such a big bird, you can become. (laughter) Yes. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. God is so kind. Whatever you desire, you will get. Therefore it is depending upon our discretion, that "What kind of desire I shall maintain?" That desire is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be happy. Otherwise, you prepare your next life and you suffer or enjoy and again next life, again next life... That is not very good. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Nobody wants that, that "I accept some position: again it is lost. Again I accept another position, again it is lost."

*So we are becoming so dullheaded by so*-called education, we do not know anything of these things, that there is next life and I can become immortal; I can avoid death, birth, death, old age and disease. There is no discussion of these scientific... It is only the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement which is giving all this information. It is very scientific and authorized. So I am very glad, so many devotees here. Try to make your life perfect by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness and studying the philosophy and practicing the method. Then you will be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



760611SB.LA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.45

-

Los Angeles, June 11, 1976



Prabhupāda:



yena yāvān yathādharmo

dharmo veha samīhitaḥ

*sa eva tat*-phalaṁ bhuṅkte

tathā tāvad amutra vai

[SB 6.1.45]



*So, one has to suffer or enjoy. There are two things. So that is according to our activities. That we can practically experience. If one is educated, naturally, he gets a good position, and if one is criminal, he gets another position. There is no difficulty to understand. So there are two things, dharma and adharma. Religiosity and irreligiosity. Religiosity means to abide by the orders of God and irreligiosity means to disobey the orders of God. That's all. Simple thing. But in this connection we must know what is the order of God, what is God, how He orders, how to execute, how we become fit for executing orders. These things*-these questions are there, but God is speaking personally, "This is My order," in the Bhagavad-gītā. You'll find, very simple thing.



*What Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā? First of all, He establishes Himself that "I am the Supreme Lord." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So, the Māyāvādīs, they also think that "I am also Kṛṣṇa. I can also speak." No, that you cannot do. Just like we are singing this song daily, gopī-jana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī. It is... Kṛṣṇa is playing with the gopīs. The sahajiyās, they take it very easily. But giri-vara-dhārī, oh, that is very difficult thing. He raised the whole Govardhana Hill in His finger; *that nobody is imitating. But gopī*-jana-vallabha, very easy. "You are gopī, I am Kṛṣṇa. Let us enjoy." This is sahajiyā. This is sahajiyā. That is going on. Parakīyā-rasa. All rascaldom is going on. But one should understand that here is Kṛṣṇa. He can dance with the gopīs and He can lift the Govardhana Hill also, simultaneously. That is also for pleasing the gopīs. When there was incessant rainfall, all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana became so disturbed, and they had no other friend than Kṛṣṇa. So they appealed, "Kṛṣṇa, do something!" "Yes!" Immediately, He raised the whole hill as umbrella. "Come on under this." So that is Kṛṣṇa. So don't imitate Kṛṣṇa, but hear Kṛṣṇa, what says, then our life is successful. We cannot imitate God. We have to simply follow His order. That is dharma. And if you imitate Kṛṣṇa, that is adharma. Don't try to imitate. There are two words in Sanskrit, anukāraṇa, anusaraṇa. Anukāraṇa means imitation, and anusaraṇa means follow. We have to execute anusaraṇa, follow. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya [SB 10.33.29].

*The Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired that "Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Kṛṣṇa, He came to establish dharma, but it appears that He danced with other's wife or other's daughter." According to Vedic civilization you cannot mix with any other woman except your wife. That is not allowed. So, according to the Vedic conception of life, it was not right thing that Kṛṣṇa danced with other's wife or other's daughter. This question was put. Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that Kṛṣṇa, because He is God, He cannot do anything wrong. Just like in England, the constitution says, "The king can do no wrong." King cannot be subject to any law. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa danced with the gopīs, it has got a deep meaning. Because they are all devotees, they did not know except Kṛṣṇa, and they prayed to the Kātyāyanī, although they are married, they prayed to Kātyāyanī before they were married, that "Let Kṛṣṇa become our husband." Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful. Naturally there is attraction. Kṛṣṇa means all*-attractive. So... And they were not ordinary women. They are eternal consorts or associates of Kṛṣṇa. Ānanda-cin-māyā-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. They are expansion of Kṛṣṇa; *they are not ordinary women. Expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ hlādinī-śaktiḥ asmād. The gopīs, Rādhārāṇī, they are expansion of the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa. Don't think they are ordinary women. They are Kṛṣṇa. Śaktiḥ śaktimator abhedaḥ. They are not different from Kṛṣṇa. But to give Kṛṣṇa pleasure, Kṛṣṇa expands Himself by His spiritual energy, ānanda hlādinī, spiritual energy, sandinī hlādinī. That is the expansion of His pleasure potency. It is not that to imitate gopīs. That is sahajiyā. That is sahajiyā. They are ānanda-cin-māyā-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto [Bs. 5.37]. When Kṛṣṇa wants pleasure, He is full spiritual, His pleasure is full spiritual. There is no question of material.

*It has been very broadly described by Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī. Read all this. Don't try to imitate. That is sahajiyā. We should know the position of Kṛṣṇa. His expansion of pleasure potency. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's līlā is put into the middle of the Tenth Canto. First of all, try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the very beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. What is Kṛṣṇa? Vāsudeve, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. So what is Vāsudeva? Janmādy asya yato. Here is the original source of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. First of all, try to understand Kṛṣṇa. So therefore Vyāsadeva has dedicated full nine cantos for understanding Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. [break]...siddhis, they think of gopīs. That is recommended in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, siddha-deha. Where is siddha? And siddha-deha means there is no more any material lusty desires. That is siddha-deha. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravinde nava-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne. So long we shall think of nārī-saṅga, association, unity with woman, we must consider this is material body. Not siddha body. Siddha body means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. All material desires, zero. That is siddha body. So therefore it is very confidential. But to clear it, that "How Kṛṣṇa accepted to dance with so many gopīs," this was for clearance.

*In that question, you'll find, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has answered that unless one is liberated, he should not think of it even. Should not think of it. And he has given the example that, you have read, that Lord Śiva, when there was churning, the poison came out, he took it and kept it. But if we imitate Lord Śiva, that "He kept, he also drunk, so let me drink also, let me smoke gañja," no. You cannot do. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya [SB 10.33.29]. The example is given: those who are very, very powerful, they are not contaminated. Just like the sun. Sun is so powerful that it can soak water from the urine, or from the stool, but it still is sun. But if you imitate sun and you... Nowadays, it is going on. The urine is turned into water and they drink. And from stool they are getting fat. So these things are going on. But we should not try to imitate. The sum and substance is Kṛṣṇa cannot be contaminated. Apāpa*-viddham. In the Īśopaniṣad, you'll find. Tejīyasām. Just like sun is never contaminated. From the whole universe, the sun is soaking water from any filthy place. But the filthy place is becoming purified by the sun rays. That is possible by the sun.

*So similarly, we cannot imitate Kṛṣṇa. That is pāpa, adharma. Dharma is to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is very simple. And if we do that then we become qualified to go back to home, back to Godhead. Very simple thing. It doesn't require much education. Simply it requires a purified mind, that "I shall execute it honestly." That much qualification is sufficient. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is Kṛṣṇa's law and order. Kṛṣṇa does not say anything which is very difficult to execute, because we cannot do it. Kṛṣṇa asks from you very simple thing. Not that Kṛṣṇa is asking from you very things which we cannot supply. No. We can supply. Anyone, any poor man, any illiterate man, any poor man or any rich man. Everyone, it is open to everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not forbidden to anyone, even pāpa-yoni.

mām hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdras

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇya bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33]. Bhajasva mām. This is Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "Simply always think of Me." This is the law and order. Who cannot think of Kṛṣṇa? Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Very easy. Where is the difficulty? This is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā, bhava mad-bhakto. And unless one is devotee, he cannot spend time in that way, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." Only the devotees can do. And mad-yājī, to worship Kṛṣṇa. So if somebody says, "I am very poor man. I cannot construct such a nice temple or offer Kṛṣṇa so many nice foodstuffs," Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no need." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. "Come on." You do not require. If you have money, then spend it for Kṛṣṇa, as much as you can. Then if you don't spend, if you think, "Kṛṣṇa wants patraṁ puṣpam; *the money I shall keep in the bank for my pleasure," then Kṛṣṇa will cheat you also. If you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is the greatest cheater. Then you'll be cheated. Don't be cheater. Simply, fervently, very honestly, obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. Four things. And what is the result? Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ: [Bg. 18.65] "Without any doubt, you'll come back to Me." What do you want more? That Kṛṣṇa is so nice.



*So spread this movement all over your country. Your country is... By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, everything is there. And the first qualification is that you are not poverty*-stricken. So take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Open similar temples all over your country. Your country is not poor. You can establish such temples, hundreds and thousands. And similarly assemble, hear Kṛṣṇa's instruction, and see how happy you'll become.

Thank you very much. (end)



750727SB.SD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.46

-

San Diego, July 27, 1975



Nitāi: "O best of the demigods, as we can see three different varieties of life on account of different contamination of the three modes of nature, and thus the living entities are seen to be peaceful, most restless and foolish, or happy, unhappy, and in between, or religious, nonreligious and in between, similarly we can infer that in the next life these three kinds of material nature exist."



Prabhupāda:



*yatheha deva*-pravarās

*trai*-vidhyam upalabhyate

*bhūteṣu guṇa*-vaicitryāt

tathānyatrānumīyate

[SB 6.1.46]



Anumīyate. Anumīyate means hypothesis. This is also an evidence. Pratyakṣa, anumāna, and śruta. According to Vedic principles, there are three different types of evidences. Everything must be proved by evidence. So these are primarily three evidences. Pratyakṣa, direct perception, pratyakṣa; anumāna; and śruti. Anumāna means I cannot see directly, but by the symptoms I can imagine. That is anumāna. Just like I have seen that in the month of April, May, June, we can get mangoes. That is our direct experience. So similarly, we can say, in the month of January, we can say that "In the month of April, May, June, we shall have mangoes." In the January there is no mango. But because I know, I experienced in my last April, May, June, so similarly, this intuition is nothing but experience of my last life. That is called intuition. The rascals, they say that there is no experience. Whatever life we have got just now, here experience. No. The intuition... Just like a dog's cub born, it is also trying to find out milk from the body of the mother, and exactly in the same place putting his mouth. Or human child also. This is last experience. That proves that life is continual. Just like I came here about two, three years ago? So I immediately, while getting down, I immediately understood, "Oh, the same house." So this is called intuition, means past experience.



*Then the most authentic evidence is śruti, out of three evidences, the śruti, hearing from the authority. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. So Kṛṣṇa says... Kṛṣṇa is the authority, best authority, supreme authority. So we can understand from His speech that in the sun planet there is a king whose name is Vaivasvata. And Kṛṣṇa says that "I spoke to Vivasvān." So Vivasvān... Now, nobody can say when the sun planet was created. But we can calculate, as it is said, vivasvān manave prāhuḥ, that Vivasvān, he explained to Manu. So Manu's age we can calculate. Manu's age, there are seventy-two Manus in one day of Brahmā. And the one day of Brahmā means forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand and divided by seventy-two. Then we can immediately calculate what is Manu's age. So by Manu's age we can calculate that forty millions of years ago Kṛṣṇa spoke to the sun*-god about this philosophy. This is called śruti. The exact calculation, by śruti you can make. So śruti-pramāṇa.

*So here it is said deva*-pravarāḥ. The Viṣṇudūtas, they are coming from Vaikuṇṭha, so beautiful, so nicely dressed, four-handed with ornaments, helmet, garland. So they have experience of the demigods, but the Viṣṇudūtas do not belong to this material world. They belong to the spiritual world. Therefore they are addressed deva-pravarāḥ, "More than the demigods," deva-pravarāḥ. They are very much pleased to see the Viṣṇudūtas, although argument is going on. Immediately after see them, they are, the Yamadūtas, they are very much pleased upon them, that "They are not ordinary living being." And with four hands. Therefore they are addressing, deva-pravarāḥ. Yatheha deva-pravarās trai-vidhyam upalabhyate. Vidhi, tri-vidha. Tri-vidha means three varieties. Vidha mean variety, and tri means three. So from tri-vidha it is said, trai-vidhyaṁ bhavaḥ.

*So trai-vidhyam, three kinds. Three kinds. Here also, in this world, we see varieties of men, varieties of animals, varieties of trees, varieties of insects-many varieties. It is already informed that altogether, within this universe, there are 8,400,000 varieties of life. Life is one. The varieties means body. Just like we are sitting. Every one of us has got a particular type of body. You will never find that this man or this boy or this girl exactly of the same bodily feature. Varieties. So altogether there are classes, or species, 8,400,000. So those who are experienced, thoughtful men, by reading scripture... Just like Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. He said to the sun*-god or the president of the sun planet, Vivasvān. So that means that is also a similar place like this. You cannot say there is no living entity. Anumīyate. That is intelligence. Because this planet is also one of the material things, everything is made here, earth, water, air, fire. So somewhere some element is very prominent. Here in this planet the earth is prominent. In the sun planet the fire is prominent. But that does not mean there is no living entity. This is foolishness. Anumīyate. This is intelligence, that everything within this universe, this material universe, everything is made of these five elements: earth, water, fire, air, sky. We see here practically that the aquatics, they have got a different type of body, and they are very peacefully living in the water. And if you are thrown in the water, you will die. And the fish is taken from the water; *he will die. So land, water, fire*-the particular type of body.

*So here it is said that it is anumīyate. As here we find varieties, similarly, in other planet or in next life there are varieties. This is intelligence, human intelligence. Why you should say there is no next life or there is no life in other planet? Therefore we have to refer to the śāstras, śāstra*-vidhi. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma... [Bg. 16.23]. If you unnecessarily becomes too much intelligent and theorize, then he is never successful, he is never sukhi. Na sukhaṁ na... Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. Such a rascal, who does not consult the śāstras and thinks whimsically according to his mad conception, such person, na siddhim avāpnoti. That is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. He will never get success. He will simply speculate. There is no, definite knowledge. Na sukham, and he is not happy. And what to speak of going back to home, back to Godhead. He is a rascal. There is no hope. So do not conclude in your foolish way anything. Just refer to the śāstra, authority, śruti. Therefore it is called śruti. We cannot imagine that there is possibility of living entity in the sun planet or moon planet, but śruti... Just like Kṛṣṇa says that "I spoke to sun-god." So by hearing this śruti, we understand that there is also life and there is also system, the government, the chief executive. Everything is there. And that is by śruti anumīyate. Anumīyate means you can imagine it is a fact.

*So from śāstra we can get the different varieties of life there are, 8,400... Some of them living for a few second, some of them are living few hours, some of them are living for years, and some of them are living for a few millions of years, some millions of years, just like Brahmā. You cannot calculate Brahmā's duration of life. But the duration of life is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. So you have to understand like that, that here is Brahma's twelve hours, one day, millions and millions of years. And he lives for hundred years. So his hundred years and my hundred years is not the same. That is scientific, relativity. Or the ant's hundred years and my hundred years is not the same. The space, time, they differ according to position. I think Professor Einstein has got this knowledge, relativity, Law of Relativity. Everything is... My one moment and Brahmā's one moment, different. My one moment, the ant's one moment is different, according to my body. But time is unlimited, eternal. But according to my body, it is past, present and future. An ant's past, present, future and my past, present, future-different. My past, present, future and Brahmā's past, present, future-different. It is the relative. Just like by speed we are calculating this whole world is twenty-five thousand miles. But it has been proved by the, what is that? Weapon for going to the space? Sputnik, sputnik. He rounded over the world*-one hour, twenty-five minutes. That is experience, relative. If you increase your speed, then the round about time decreases. Similarly, if by yoga system you increase your speed, then you can travel all over the universe as Durvāsā Muni said. Durvāsā Muni, he crossed over this universe and went to the Vaikuṇṭhaloka. It took only one year. This is relative. It took one years only. And you cannot go in so many years. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ [Bs. 5.34]. Everything is relative.

So first of all the Yamadūtas are so experienced because they are servant of Yamarāja. He is not ordinary living being. Therefore they are explaining that how people are happy, unhappy, in one position or other... It is due to past activities, dharma adharma. That is the next verse. So the example is given that why there are so many varieties of living entities? It is due to varieties of three guṇas. Last evening I was talking with that Hope(?) professor that "Why in country like America and Europe there are hippies lying on the street? Why? They are not poor. In India you can say that they are poor. They have no shelter; *therefore lying down on the street." I thought when I came that there is no man in America who is lying down, street, because that is rich country. But when I actually saw in Bowery, hundreds of men are lying down in the street... They are not poor, but they are destined to lie down on the street. So the three orders, traigunya, trai*-vidhya, must be there. Either it may be America or Europe or India or Czechoslovakia or anywhere. Anywhere, the three must..., one high class, one middle class and low class. There must be there. And then again take these three varieties and multiply it again with three, nine. Then nine into nine. eighty-one.

*So these varieties of bodies are there. You cannot change the law of nature. Struggle for existence: we are trying to conquer over the laws of nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. So these are the subject matter of studies. Why there are, everyone is unhappy and happy to some extent? According to these qualities. So here it is said, therefore, that "As here we see in this life, in duration of life, there are varieties, similarly, guṇa*-vaicitryāt, by the varieties of the guṇa, guṇa-vaicitryāt," tathānyatrānumīyate. Anyatra means next life or next planet or next anything. Everything is being controlled. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Kṛṣṇa advises Arjuna that "The whole material world is being controlled by these three guṇas," guṇa-vaicitryāt. "Therefore you become nistraiguṇya, where these three guṇas cannot act." Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. So how you can stop the action of these three guṇas? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



If you engage yourself in pure devotional service incessantly, without any stop, then you always remain transcendental, above these three guṇas. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to keep the devotee above the three guṇas. Just like in the ocean, if you are fallen in the ocean, it is very dangerous position. But if somebody helps you to lift you from the ocean water and keep one inch above the ocean water, there is no danger. Your life is saved.



*So that is wanted, that guṇa*-vaicitryāt, if you want to save yourself from these varieties of life, birth, death, old age and disease, and accept so many varieties of life... Just like you were telling while walking that there are trees in California; *they are living for five thousand years. That is also another variety of life. People are trying to live for many many years. By nature's way, here is a tree, five thousand years. So is that kind of living is very profitable, to stand up five thousand years in a forest? So any variety of life within this material world is not good, either you are demigod or tree or this or that. That is education. That is education. So one should understand that any varieties of life, either as demigod or dog, here the life is troublesome. The demigods even, they are put into so many dangers. Many times they approach God. So here you will be always in danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. It is futile to attempt to make this material world dangerless. That is not possible. As there are varieties of bodies, varieties of dangers, calamities, so one after another, you will have to... So best thing is, therefore, stop this business, material. That is Vedic civilization. The whole Vedic civilization is based on this idea, that "Stop this nonsense business, repetition of birth, death, old age." Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. This is knowledge. What knowledge, this technical knowledge, this knowledge? You cannot stop these things. Therefore main business is how to stop it. And because they are foolish people, they think that "These things cannot be stopped. Let us go on with this repetition of birth and death, and in each life let us struggle for existence." This is material civilization, ignorance, no knowledge.

The knowledge is given by Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa that "Here is the solution: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo janati tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]." The problem is punar janma, repetition of birth, and if you want to stop it, then try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then you will be able to stop. As soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa... To understand Kṛṣṇa means even if you blindly accept, that is also beneficial. Kṛṣṇa says what He is, that He is the Supreme Lord. So you accept Him. That's all. Simply have this faith, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That will make you sufficiently advanced. But this is very difficult for the materialistic person. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: [Bg. 7.19] "After endeavoring for many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, jñānavān, "who is actually wise, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāh: [Bg. 7.15] "Otherwise he remain a rascal and implicated in sinful activities, lowest of the mankind, knowledge is taken away." Na māṁ prapadyante: "He never surrenders to Kṛṣṇa."

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to propagate this knowledge that you understand Kṛṣṇa, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by His activities which are recorded in the śāstra. When Kṛṣṇa was present on this earthly planet, He showed according to our understanding. Just like one man cannot maintain one wife: He married sixteen thousand wife. And He maintained them how? Sixteen thousand palaces. And will the women will be satisfied simply having very good palaces? No, she must have husband. So Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself into sixteen thousand husband. This is Kṛṣṇa. But because I cannot do it, we say, "Oh, this is all allegory, fiction. It is not fact." That is our defect. If God comes, explains, then we do not believe Him. Then how we will be convinced about God? God is omnipotent, and when He shows His omnipotency and it is recorded in the śāstra, we don't believe. So therefore, why we do not believe? Now, yeṣāṁ anta*-gataṁ pāpam. Yeṣām... Kṛṣṇa says everything.

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇāṁ

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*One who is completely free from the reaction of sinful life, anta*-gataṁ pāpam, and only engaged in pious activities, that such person can be engaged in His devotional service.



*So you engage yourself in the routine devotional service of Kṛṣṇa. Either understanding or not understanding, your life will be successful. Just like if you touch fire, understanding or not understanding, it will burn. Similarly, take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is nothing blindly accepting. Everything is explained in the śāstra, preliminary knowledge in Bhagavad*-gītā, further explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So utilize your human life in understanding Kṛṣṇa, and then your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760612SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.46

-

Detroit, June 12, 1976



Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "O best of the demigods, we can see three different varieties of life, which are due to the contamination of the three modes of nature. The living entities are thus known as peaceful, restless and foolish; *as happy, unhappy or in*-between; or as religious, irreligious and semireligious. We can deduce that in the next life these three kinds of material nature will similarly act."



Prabhupāda:



*yatheha deva*-pravarās

*trai*-vidhyam upalabhyate

*bhuteṣu guṇa*-vaicitryāt

tathānyatrānumīyate

[SB 6.1.46]



*Just like, now this month of June, we have got a certain type of experience, what are the natural changes, atmosphere, in this month of June. Similarly, when you are in month of December, you can foretell what will be the next month of June. It is not difficult. Because you have got experience, the atmospheric changes and situations in this month of June. Just like in Bombay there is practical calculation that by the tenth of June, the rain, rainy season will begin. Actually so happens. In different places, different types of seasonal changes. So everything should be seen through the śāstra. Śāstra*-cakṣuṣāt. This is Vedic process. In the śāstra it is said that ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ: [Bg. 14.18] elevation in this material world is when a person is in the sattva-guṇa, the modes of goodness. And middle, via media, is rajo-guṇa. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. Those who are very, very low class, jaghanya-vṛtti, their behavior is very, very abominable, they go down, adho gacchanti.



But our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to go above the modes of goodness. Here, either goodness or passion or ignorance, they sometimes overlap. Just like a brāhmaṇa, he is in goodness. But this Ajāmila, he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. We have begun that history, kānyakubje dvijaḥ. He was born in a brāhmaṇa family of Kānyakubja city, historical fact. Kānyakubja is still there in India; *it is now called Kanauj. [break] ...family. Everything was there. But accidentally, one day he was bringing flowers and other paraphernalia for worshiping Deity for his father. On the way, he saw one śūdra, fourth*-class man, was embracing one śūdrāṇī. This kind of embracing, kissing, on the public street, they're never indulged in India. Especially among the high class, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. No. The śūdras, they also do it very carefully. But śūdras can do. Prostitution, these things are the low-class. The high-class, no, not allowed. The high-class society, a woman cannot mix with any man. Especially unmarried. The fathers, parents, will not allow. So this person, this Ajāmila, happened to see that a young śūdra, he's embracing another young śūdrāṇī, and naturally, he became excited. And then he made contact with that prostitute, and whatever money he had he was spending for her. In this way he fell down, sadācāro. That is stated here, that naṣṭa-sadācāro, on account of mixing with a prostitute, he became completely fall down.

*So the point is that although he was born in a brāhmaṇa family, he was being trained up as a pure brāhmaṇa, but he fell down to the modes of ignorance. Therefore one has to surpass the platform of goodness also. There are many cases, very good boy, all of a sudden falls. In our society, you have seen very nice boy, doing nicely, all of a sudden, finished. So that is possible. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: overlap. The rajo-guṇa is overlapping tamo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa is overlapping sattva-guṇa; *in this way, it is going on. Therefore we see varieties. So that is stated here, that deva*-pravarās trai-vidhyam upalabhyate, guṇa-vaicitryāt. Guṇa-vaicitryāt, by mixture of different guṇas. Just like color, painter. There are three colors originally: red, yellow and blue. Now those who are expert, they can mix these. If you mix yellow and blue, it becomes green. Those who are painters, they know. And yellow mixed with red, it becomes orange. In this way those who are painters, they know how to mix color, and varieties come. Guṇa-vaicitryāt.

So there are originally three colors. Similarly, originally three guṇas. Now they become mixed up. Three into three equal to nine; *nine into nine equal to eighty*-one; *and again eighty*-one, and eighty-one... Nature's law is very subtle. Those who are botanists, scientists, they know how the color of the flower... So many varieties. They calculate, a little... There is regular principle. Not that by chance it has become yellow, chance it has become red. This is rascaldom. No. There is regular. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Everything is being done by the manifestation of energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Everywhere there is control of Kṛṣṇa. So don't think that in the flower some nice color has come without any supervision or control. Don't think. That is nonsense. Not by chance. It is under Kṛṣṇa's direction. He has got artistic sense. Not like us. He can dictate to show(?) the various varieties of living entities, all varieties, trees and so many things, there are varieties. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi: nine hundred thousand different forms of fishes, from big to small. There are whale fishes. There is another big fish; *they can swallow up the whale fishes, so big, jala*-hasti. They are within the ocean. How many we know? We are... The Nirviśeṣa-vādīs' philosophy is like that, that on the ocean we see it is simply water. No, that is not actual vision. You should take knowledge from the experience. What is that? Now within the ocean there are nine hundred thousand different forms of life. You rascal, you are thinking that there is nothing, nirviśeṣa.

*So nirviśeṣa-vādī, impersonalists, are like that. In the creation of God, there are varieties, not impersonal. Therefore we see, we are sitting here, you won't find two men of the same feature of the body. Even there are twin, still, we'll find some difference. The father, mother can see. There is variety. Here it is said, bhūteṣu guṇa-vaicitryāt. They are guṇa-vaicitryāt. Therefore we don't find two men of the same nature, two men of the same thinking. Varieties, varieties, this is going on. But that is our cause of bondage, varieties. But if we can surpass these varieties, as Kṛṣṇa advises in the Bhagavad-gītā, trai-guṇya-viṣayā vedā nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna. Nistrai-guṇyo, nirguṇa. Nirguṇa does not mean no varieties. Nirguṇa means not these material varieties*-the spiritual varieties. So they misunderstand. Spiritual varieties they think material varieties. So nistraigunyo: we have to overcome the varieties of this material nature. We have come to the spiritual platform. And how it is possible? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā:

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*One who is engaged in devotional service, he becomes transcendental to these three guṇas and its varieties. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti*-yogena. Avyabhicāreṇa, without any adulteration, pure devotion. Pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam: [Brs. 1.1.11] only concentration of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the root. Kṛṣṇa is vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. One who knows this... This knowledge is not so easy. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. After many, many births cultivating knowledge, if one is fortunate, he can understand that Kṛṣṇa is the root of everything. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. But that is the ultimate goal. So if we understand this central point, that Kṛṣṇa is the root of everything, then we are successful in life. Otherwise, it is not.



*So it is said, māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. People are missing this point, that Kṛṣṇa is the center. If any way we act, making Kṛṣṇa in the center, you may draw many thousands of circles, it will not overlap. It will not overlap. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is... To become Kṛṣṇa conscious means not to remain within this guṇa-vaicitrya, the varieties of material color, or material guṇas. Above that. Center Kṛṣṇa. Make center Kṛṣṇa. Then whatever you do, it will be perfect. Make Kṛṣṇa center. It doesn't matter whether I'm a businessman or professional man, or engineer, doctor-there are so many varieties*-or a mendicant or brahmacārī, gṛhastha. Never mind. It is, make Kṛṣṇa center. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā.

*This was decided in the resolution of the Naimiṣāraṇya meeting. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ. There were very, very learned scholars, brāhmaṇas, and sages, and that is not ordinary meeting. Just like our, this meeting, is not ordinary meeting; *this is Kṛṣṇa conscious meeting. Similarly, there was a big meeting, Naimiṣāraṇya, wherefrom Bhāgavata was given to the public. So in that meeting Sūta Gosvāmī said, dvija-śreṣṭhā: "You are all selected first*-class brāhmaṇa in this meeting." So, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There is division, varṇa and āśrama. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha. Now, varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, everything has got varieties of duties. Brāhmaṇas have got varieties of duties. Kṣatriya has got varieties. Just like brāhmaṇa: sattva śamo-damas-titikṣa ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. There must be a class of men, brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, society will go to hell. Who will guide? Just like in this body there must be the head. Otherwise, what is the use of these hands and legs? There is no use. Who will give direction? They are now trying to make classless society. Therefore they are bringing the whole human society into ruination. It cannot be done. There must be classes. Just like in my body there are four divisions: brain, arms, belly, leg. So they are required. Leg is also required, hand is also required, belly is also required. Similarly, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī-varieties. And when the varieties center around Kṛṣṇa, it becomes beautiful. Kṛṣṇa center, and the circle, rasa dance, it becomes very beautiful.

*So unless people accept this principle, that Kṛṣṇa center, their, all their plans will be futile. Moghāśā mogha*-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā [Bg. 9.12], everything. You try the history. They are trying to do so many things, planning. In every country, there is a planning commission, but according to Bhagavad-gītā, any plan you do, it is all rascaldom if it is without Kṛṣṇa. It will fail. History will... Take, for example, in our India, Mahātmā Gandhi made so many plans to get our independence. He was taking Bhagavad-gītā in his hand and publicly said that "I get solace from Bhagavad-gītā." He was very fond of Bhagavad-gītā. But unfortunately he could not make Kṛṣṇa as center. This is the unfortunate. Therefore whole plan failed. Gandhi wanted nonviolence-failed. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity-failed. Why? Because he never said that Kṛṣṇa is the center. Find his lecture. He'll never say Kṛṣṇa. Missing. Kṛṣṇa is missing. Similarly, so many... One French professor has admitted, Aurobindo or Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have written Bhagavad-gītā, annotation, so many others also, but Kṛṣṇa is missing. They're faulty. Kṛṣṇa is missing. Through Bhagavad-gītā, they want to make the society Kṛṣṇa-less. That is their policy. So nothing has become... For the last two hundred, three hundred years, from India so many swamis, yogis came. But because they missed Kṛṣṇa, it was all useless. And now this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, because we are making Kṛṣṇa as the center, you see practically, thousands of devotees. Successful.

*So that is a fact. If you don't make Kṛṣṇa the center, never mind the varieties of qualities are there... That will continue. It is everywhere, the varieties will be there. But if Kṛṣṇa is the center, the varieties will be very nice bouquet, bunch of flower. And without Kṛṣṇa, it is all useless. So make Kṛṣṇa center. Then these varieties of guṇa, mixture of guṇa, that will not... Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. This will not affect our spiritual position. Kṛṣṇa says: sa brahma-bhūyāya, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. So the aim is how to make people brahma-bhūtaḥ. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi does not mean that I have become Bhagavān or God. No. I am not matter; *I am spirit soul. That is ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is called Brahman realization. And when one is in Brahman realization, then that is the peaceful condition of life. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. So take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I am very pleased that you are doing, endeavoring. So do it very nicely and... Apratihatā. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement cannot be checked by any material impediments. Ahaitukī apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. This devotional service to Kṛṣṇa can be done by anyone, by everyone, in any place, in any condition. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to become happy and peaceful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750729SB.DAL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.47

-

Dallas, July 29, 1975



Prabhupāda:



vartamānaḥ anyayoḥ kālaḥ

guṇabhijñāpako yathā

evaṁ janmānyayor etad

*dharmādharma*-nidarśanam

[SB 6.1.47]



So there are three phases of time: past, present and future. Time is eternal; *I am also eternal. But because I am in the material world, the time is relatively divided into past, present and future. Relativity, the law of relativity*-I have explained several times. Brahmā's past, present, future and the ant's past, present, future are not the same. Similarly, our past, present, future or the ant's past, present, future are not the same. Time is eternal, but according to the quality of the body, the past, present, future is calculated. So it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā... Kṛṣṇa says vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. Because Kṛṣṇa is not changing body, therefore He has no past, present, future. Those who are changing body, they have got past, present, future. I had my childhood. I have changed the body in this old age. Therefore I think, "In the past I was like this, or future, I will be like this." So this is relative. Time is eternal, we are eternal, but because we have accepted this temporary body, therefore we have to calculate past, present and future. So future means... Just like there is ordinary word in English, "Child is the father of man," future. The same child will be father or grandfather in future.



*So this future, past, present, future, is being controlled by the three modes of material nature. If we practice in this life sattva*-guṇa, then ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ: [Bg. 14.18] then we shall be promoted to the higher planetary system. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. If we cultivate rajo-guṇa... Rajo-guṇa means kāma-lobha, kāma, simply desiring. This is called rajo-guṇa. "I want this, I want this, I want this." Because there is no satiation of want, therefore every man or woman planning something, "How my sense gratification will be fully satisfied." This is rajo-guṇa, kāma. Everyone is forgetting his real business. His real business is he should know, one should know, that "I am eternal. I have taken this temporary body and subjected to the laws of nature, birth, death and old age. So my real problem is how to become again eternal, not accepting any more birth, death, old age. That is my real business." But because I am infected with the material modes of nature, we are making different plans. Everyone is busy. Everyone is busy in different plans, forgetting his real business. This is called māyā. Māyā means..., ma means not; *ya means this. Therefore māyā means when you understand, "This is not my business," then you are out of māyā. "This is not," mā*-yā.

*So here the Yamadūtas are analyzing whether Ajāmila is pious or impious. The Viṣṇudūtas asked them to explain what is dharma and what is adharma. "You have come here to arrest this person, to take away with to the yama... So you are servant of Dharmarāja. Now explain what is dharma and adharma." Dharma means which will bring me again to my original, constitutional position, and adharma means which will take me down and down from my original, constitutional position. This is the test of dharma and adharma. I am eternal part and parcel of God, so my dharma is to render service to God and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is my real business. So adharma means I forget my relationship with the Supreme Lord and I go down and down just to become up to the worm in the stool. This is called adharma. There are so many varieties of life. Why? This is due to difference of dharma and adharma. Those who are trying to take the principles of dharma, they are being elevated to the higher, higher, higher, higher, higher, up to back to home, back to Godhead. And those who are not accepting... Jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Jaghanya, they do not know how to live, just like animal, less than animal. Animal has got also sense. The modern civilization is less than animal. Animal does not kill its own son. The human being is killing his own son.

*So this is the position. And this is not at all good. It is suffering. We are purchasing suffering more and more. The laws of God or laws of nature, they are very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot avoid the stringent laws of the material nature. If you violate, then you will suffer. If you follow, then you will be elevated. That is stated, vartamānaḥ anyayoḥ kālaḥ. This suffering or enjoying*-there is no enjoyment-suffering, so this is past, present and future. I am suffering or enjoying in this body. Then I am manufacturing another body for the future. And that manufacturing of future depending on the influence of kāla and the material modes, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. In this way I am implicated. That they do not know. Vartamānaḥ anyayoḥ kālaḥ guṇābhijñāpako. Those who are learned, they can understand why this man has become like this or why the animal has become this. Guna-jñāpa. Guṇa, according to guṇa. There are three guṇas, and mix it then it becomes nine, then mix it, it becomes eighty-one. Guṇa-jñāpakaḥ. It is not that every different types of body and living entities have come by chance. This is nonsense. There is no question of chance. Everything is being carried or being conducted by the three modes of material nature. Guṇa-jñāpakaḥ. Evaṁ janma anyayoḥ. As I have got this body according to guṇa, similarly, anyayoḥ, in the future we shall get different types of body according to guṇa. Evaṁ janmānyayor etad. But all these-based on dharma and adharma. The principle is dharma and adharma, our occupational duty according to modes of material nature.

*Just like a pig. It is very much fond of eating stool. So if you want to ask, "Why this animal is fond of eating stool?"... So dharma adharma jñāpaka, because in the past life this living entity practiced tamo*-guṇa, no discrimination of eating... Tamo-guṇa means no discrimination. Eating... We have got four businesses in this life, so long we have got this material body: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca, eating, sleeping and sex and defense. These are primary business of the body. So why there are different types of eating, different types of sleeping? Why different types of mating, sex intercourse, and different types of defense? It is due to different qualities of the nature. A dog is happy sleeping on the street. A man does not want to sleep on the street. He wants to sleep in a nice apartment. Why this difference of...? According to guṇa. A dog enjoys sex life on the street without any shame, but a man has got some social convention. So he does not do so. But now they are coming, improving, that "There is no harm if there is sex on the street. Why we should have apartment?"

*So these are all due to different infection of the guṇa. Tamo*-guṇa means shameless, tamo-guṇa. Rajo-guṇa means lusty desire. And sattva-guṇa means knowledge, to see things as they are. So just like here in the temple, we are cultivating sattva-guṇa, or more than that, above sattva-guṇa. Above sattva-guṇa. It is said in the śāstra that to live in the forest is sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa, people have got tendency to live in a secluded place, solitary place, without any disturbance. That is sign of sattva-guṇa. And to live in the cities, big, big cities, skyscraper building, this is rajo-guṇa. And to live in the brothel, in the liquor shop, in the slaughterhouse, this is tamo-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. But to live in the temple is transcendental. Transcendental. It is above sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, to live in temple. Therefore we are introducing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so that the persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, living in the temple according to the regulative principles, they are above all these sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is wanted. Nistraiguṇya. Traiguṇya means three guṇas, and niḥ means negative. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. That is our aim, that although we are in this material world, by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process we shall live above these three guṇas. These three guṇas cannot touch me. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Who? Māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena ya sevate. Anyone who is engaged in pure devotional service avyabhicāriṇi, not mixed up, whimsical, regularly, as they are ordained, as they are prescribed. So if anyone is engaged in such transcendental loving service of the Lord, then his position is: he is above the three guṇas. He is not...

*So these Yamadūta superficially saw that "This man, Ajāmila, is a first*-class sinful man, and he has to be taken to Yamarāja. He has simply committed adharma." But the Viṣṇudūta has come because he is now freed from all material contamination, because at the end of his life he chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa. So that is... If it is possible, so much advantage of chanting the holy name of the Lord, if you constantly keep yourself engaged in chanting the holy name of the Lord, there is no possibility of your being touched by māyā. This is the position. Vartamānaḥ anyayoḥ kālaḥ guṇābhijñāpakaḥ. Guṇābhijñāpakaḥ. Anyone who is intelligent, who can understand what this man is, which quality he belongs to... This is education. This is learning, to understand what is the position of this particular... The general definition is given, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ, jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gac... [Bg. 14.18]. You can... Any person who has studied śāstra, and he is in the sattva-guṇa, to him it is..., everything is there. He can understand what is this man, what he is going to be and what he was, past, present, future, everything. Why? How one can understand past, present, future? Through the śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuśaḥ. There are still astrological calculation in India called Bṛghu-saṁhitā. If you consult Bṛghu-saṁhitā, immediately they will give you your past, present and future. Immediately they will give. The astrology science is so perfect. What you were in the past life, what you are at the present and what you are going to be, these three things they can be known.

vartamānaḥ anyayoḥ kālaḥ

guṇābhijñāpako yathā

evaṁ janmānyayor etad

*dharmādharma*-nidarśanam



So we have to follow the principle of religion; *otherwise we are misguided. Just like a child has to be sent to school to understand, to become learned scholar. It is compulsory, not that I may send my child to school or if I like, I don't send. No. It is compulsory. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is Vedic injunction. If you want to be learned fully, especially if you want to learn the transcendental science, gurum eva abhigacchet: "One must go to a guru." Guru*-the spiritual master as well as the teacher also, guru. So he must att..., he must go to a guru. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. And going to guru, what you have to do? Praṇipātena. You have to fully surrender. Paripraśnena. After surrendering, then you can enquire, you can put question. Otherwise, it is illegal. If you do not accept anybody as guru, then don't put question before him to waste his time and your time. This is the process. First of all find out whom you like to accept as guru. Then put question. But sometimes we have to talk with persons who is not student: outsider. That is preaching work. But śāstra says that one should approach a guru, and with surrender he would ask him, and guru will talk with a person who is surrendered. Otherwise, there is no necessity of talk, because he will not accept. One who has come to challenge the guru, so he will simply waste time. He will not accept. But a disciple who has surrendered, he will accept. Therefore talking is recommended between guru and disciple, not outsider. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is essential. And guru trains the disciple according to the Vedic principle. Therefore there are division of varṇa and āśrama.



So these are very scientific things. The whole world is unaware of these scientific things, this animal civilization; and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to elevate to the standard of human being.

Thank you very much. (end)



760613SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.47

-

Detroit, June 13, 1976



Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "Just as springtime in the present indicates the nature of springtimes in the past and future, so this life of happiness, distress or a mixture of both gives evidence concerning the religious and irreligious activities of one's past and future lives."



Prabhupāda:



vartamāno 'nyāyoḥ kālo

guṇābhijñāpako yathā

evaṁ janmānyayor etad

*dharmādharma*-nidarśanam

[SB 6.1.47]



*By the symptoms of birth, one can understand, of course, through abhijñā, those who are abhijñā. And the word is used guṇabhijñā, jñāpakaḥ. Guṇābhijñā, guṇābhijñāpako yathā. By the guṇas, one can-guṇa means quality*-one can understand the past and future. Still in India there is an astrological system, it is called Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. According to that Bhṛgu-saṁhitā, the astrologer can say what the man was in the past and what he's going to be in future. And present also.



*So, generally we can understand from the śāstra that according to guṇa*-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa-those who are in sattva-guṇa, they are going higher planetary system; *rajo*-guṇa, in the same platform; *tamo*-guṇa, going down. So the human endeavor should be how to increase the sattva-guṇa quality of the man. That is the duty of all guardians. State, king, government, everyone should. If you do not make such attempt to elevate your dependent towards the sattva-guṇa platform, simply lamenting, what will do good to you? "Our position is this, now it is uncontrollable, the things are going bad, there are problems." Yes, problem must be there. Because the aim of life should be known. They do not know. The modern civilization, they do not know what is the aim of life, how life is going on, eternally, how it is implicated, how to entangle. So many things are there, it is a great science.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to establish this science. Our real mission is how the human society will be happy. That is the duty of all saintly persons. The, according to our paramparā system... Just like the Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. They were very exalted personalities, minister in government. Still, they resigned from the service and joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. That is the history. All the direct disciples of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they were very big personalities. Just like Rūpa, Sanātana. They were minister. Then Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, Dāsa Raghunātha. Raghunātha Dāsa, he was coming, more than minister. His father and uncle were the biggest zamindar, landlord, in those times. And he was the only son of the father and the uncle. Huge estate, beautiful wife, everything*-he left and joined this movement, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. Similarly, Gopal Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, he also coming from a very aristocratic brāhmaṇa family in South India. And Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī, the nephew of Rūpa Gosvāmī, in the learned circle, still, in Bengal, they say such a big scholar and philosophy, there was none, and nobody expects a similar philosopher and learned scholar in the future. He was such a big personality, Jīva Gosvāmī. Big, big Māyāvādīs, they were afraid of Jīva Gosvāmī's logic and argument to establish the Vaiṣṇava philosophy.

*So it is not... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for very intelligent, high*-class, fortunate persons. Because they are going to guide the destiny of the human society. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Their only endeavor is how people will be happy. This is their real mission. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore asked to "Take this mission and go village to village, town to town, and spread My mission."

*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*So you young Americans, you have taken a very great mission, and the system we have introduced, to go in the vans, buses and village to village, town to town. And if you keep strictly on the principles and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, then your mission will be successful. There is no doubt about it.



*So vartamāno 'nyayoḥ kālo, there are three different features of time*-past, present, and future. So those who are learned scholars, from one point, they can calculate what is the past and what is the future. Evaṁ janmānyayor etad dharmādharma-nidarśanam. There is astrology, there are experienced persons, they can say what was the past, what will be the future, this is one side. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is, even without any knowledge of the past, without any knowledge of the future, if you take the present opportunity, then your life is successful. The present opportunity is that in this age, Kali-yuga, Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayā... What? Anyone knows this verse?

*anarpita*-carīṁ-cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau

*samarpayitum unnatojjvala*-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam

*hariḥ puraṭa*-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ

*sadā hṛdaya*-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandana



*Śacī*-nandana. This is Rūpa Gosvāmī's blessings, that "Within your heart, let Śacī-nandana be seated." Sadā hṛdaya-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandanaḥ. Then everything will be adjusted. He has appeared for this cause (indistinct). Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam. He is personally, Kṛṣṇa personally is giving Kṛṣṇa. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. These are the verses composed by Rūpa Gosvāmī, that "Here is most munificent incarnation. Because He's giving Kṛṣṇa. Not only Kṛṣṇa-Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, what was very, very difficult to understand." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yayati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. To understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy, but Kṛṣṇa Himself is giving Himself: "Take Me." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So future, past, present, future, whatever it has been, our past, or what is present, it doesn't matter. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then our present and future, both are bright, undoubtedly.



*So we should take the instruction of the Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī... Vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priyakarau nirmatsarau. Nirmatsarau, this movement, there is no distinction. No matsarata. Matsarata means to be intolerant for other's advancement. Nobody's... This is material nature. Nobody wants that his friend or his son, or, of course, the father likes, the son is increasing in opulence, he likes, but sometimes he does not like. So this world is full of envy. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is for the paramahaṁsa, who is not envious. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra. Nirmatsara [SB 1.1.2], when one is not envious of others. That is called nirma..., Because in the material world, everyone is envious of another person. That is the nature. Therefore there is so much fight. Everyone is envious. Nation is another nation's against, envious, even person to person, brother to brother, family to family, community to community. Everywhere, matsarata. Para-utkarṣaṇam asahanam (indistinct). Matsarata means one cannot tolerate other's flourishing condition. Immediately envious. But this system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām. One who has learned this art not to become envious. Tolerant. That is the qualification of saintly persons. Kind. Tin... Hm? What is that? Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikaḥ. Those who are preachers, they should be titikṣava. Titikṣava means titikṣa, tolerance. There will be so much insult, inconveniences, against party, everything. We have to tolerate. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇa. At the same time, we have to distribute the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām, and friend of everyone, there is no distinction. Friend of everyone. Ajāta-śatravaḥ. By their action they'll not create any enemy. Ajāta-śatravaḥ santaḥ, peaceful. Ajāta-śatravaḥ santaḥ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. These are the decoration of sādhus, saintly persons. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikaḥ. I think this śloka is there in the Kapila's teaching to His mother. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikaḥ, ajāta-śatravaḥ santaḥ, sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇā [SB 3.25.21].

*So, so far the Kali*-yuga is concerned, the future is very dark. There, everything is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The future of this Kali-yuga, as it will advance, Kali-yuga... We have only passed five thousand years out of thirty-two hundred thousands of years. We have only passed five thousand years, and the miserable condition, situation, will degrade more and more, more and more. So if you have to take again birth in this material world, then we'll have to suffer more and more. Best thing is that let us finish our business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead, so that we haven't got to come again to this nonsense material world. That is wanted. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. This should be the aim of life, that we are not going to take advantage of this so-called advance of material civilization. We have no business. Āra nare vaka (indistinct). We should make it a determination that we have enough of this material civilization; we are not any more concerned about it. We are interested in Kṛṣṇa, how to go back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This should be the determination. And if we think, "Let me taste this also and taste that also..." In Bengal it is said durakhai tanakakai (indistinct). Not like that.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned very seriously:

*niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad*-bhajanonmukhasya

*pāraṁ param jigamiṣor bhava*-sāgarasya

viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca

*hā hanta hanta viṣa*-bhakṣanād apy asādhu

[Cc. Madhya 11.8]



*For a person who is going back to home, back to Godhead, he should be niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcana means no more any material necessities. Niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanomukhasya. One side, this is nirvāṇa, finished. And the other side positive. Negative side, no more material, and positive side, Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. How to go back to home, back to Godhead to serve Kṛṣṇa*-this is one side. And one side-nil, we don't want any more anything. Niṣkiñcana. For such a person, viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca [Cc. Madhya 11.8]. For such a person, if he has become captivated by the material attraction, means money and material comforts... Woman and material comforts. This is material civilization. Everyone is after woman. Woman or men, the... It is not that woman means the form of woman and man is the form of man. Woman means enjoyable and man means enjoyer. So here in this material world everyone is enjoyer. Everyone is enjoyer. Not only the man thinks "I shall enjoy the woman," the woman thinks, "I shall enjoy the man." The spirit is now to become enjoyer, Therefore sometimes the living entity is described as puruṣa. Actually every living entity is prakṛti. Prakṛti means enjoyable. So everyone is to be enjoyable by Kṛṣṇa. But thinking, "I am enjoyer." That is māyā. So everyone is thinking of enjoying this material world. Viṣayiṇāṁ atha yoṣitāṁ ca. Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitām. So for any person who is serious about going back to home, back to..., for them these things are abominable, more than drinking poison. This is the verdict of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*So we have... This is the idea. So we must be serious. It is not that in one day we, all of us, we become paramahaṁsa. That is not possible. Don't try to imitate, but follow the rules and regulation with vow that "This life I shall go back to home, back to Godhead, with determination." Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. That is promised by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prītiḥ, satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakaṁ dadāmi... If you are serious, then Kṛṣṇa is within everyone's heart, He'll give you intelligence. But we must be very serious. Then past, present, future will be clear before us, and because Kṛṣṇa is personally directing, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi. So what knowledge is wanting there when Kṛṣṇa...? In another place Kṛṣṇa says,

teṣām evānukampārtham

*aham ajñāna*-jaṁ tamaḥ

*nāśayāmy ātma*-bhāvastho

*jñāna*-dīpena bhāsvatā

[Bg. 10.11]



For a sincere devotee, Kṛṣṇa says: "To show him special favor, even though he is rascal, I'll make him intelligent."



Thank you very much. (end)



750730SB.DAL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.48

-

Dallas, July 30, 1975



Nitai: "The omnipotent Yamarāja is as good as Lord Brahmā because although he is situated in his own abode or being situated in everyone's heart like Paramātmā, by his mind he observes the past activities of a living entity, and according to that, by the same mind he understands how the living entity will act in his future life."



Prabhupāda:



manasaiva pure devaḥ

*pūrva*-rūpaṁ vipaśyati

anumīmāṁsati apūrvaṁ

manasā bhagavān ajaḥ

[SB 6.1.48]



*So now the Yamadūtas are describing about Yamarāja, who is as good as Brahmā. He is entrusted with the majestical power To Yamarāja not all the living beings are taken to, neither the animals, only the human being and those who are criminals or sinful, not all of them. First of all there are living entities, 8,400,000 forms, or species. So not all of them sinful and subjected to be brought for justice before Yamarāja. Just like magistrate, criminal magistrate. He is... In every city the district magistrate, not all the people are brought there, only the criminals. So he is so powerful that through his mind he can see the past and the future, tri*-kāla-jñā, by mind. And because he is so powerful, he is addressed here as Bhagavān. I have several times explained, Bhagavān means the most powerful, full of opulences. So those who are in charge of departmental affairs within this universal kingdom, they are also sometimes addressed as Bhagavān. And Aja, Aja is Brahmā. Aja means who does not take birth. So Brahmā also did not take birth like ordinary human being. He sprouted like the lotus flower from the abdomen of Mahā Viṣṇu..., Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Therefore he is called Aja or Svāyambhu, Svāyambhu: "personally born, not through the womb of the mother." Brahmā was not born through the womb of mother; therefore he is called bhagavān ajaḥ.



*So the mind of Yamarāja, he can see. In the previous verse it is said, vartamanaḥ anyayoḥ kālaḥ guṇābhijñāpako yathā. Within this material world we are passing through many evolutionary process and getting different types of body according to the guṇa, quality, modes of nature, we are associating. So Yamaraja can see. When a living being, criminal, sinful living being is brought before him, he can understand through his mind. Just see that everyone's mind is not of the same category. There are difference of mind also, according to the position. That we have got experience. A high*-court judge's mind and ordinary person's mind-far different. The judges can immediately understand what is the position. So this is also God's gift. Different people have got different power of the mind. That is also through Kṛṣṇa. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ mattaḥ smṛtiḥ jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. So mind means whose memory is very sharp, he is called great-minded. So this greatness of mind and smallness of mind are different according to the dictation of the Supersoul. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam... One man can remember small things for many years; another man forgets. Immediately he hears and immediately forgets. Why this difference of mental position? It is due to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa helps one to memorize or to forget. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. One can, one has... Just like in school some student has got very sharp memory. Once heard from the teacher, he never forgets it. So these different stages are due to the association of different modes of material nature.

*So Yamaraja, when a person is brought before him, he can immediately understand that "He was sinful in this way." Manasa pure devaḥ. Or Yamarāja is sitting in his place, but he is seeing everyone, what he is doing through the sun, through the moon. We have already discussed, through fire, through evening, through morning*-there are so many witnesses. And all those information goes to him, and because he is almost as powerful as Bhagavān, he can remember. This is special power. Manasaiva pure devaḥ pūrva-rūpam. Because after death, one is brought before Yamarāja, so before his death, what he was doing sinfully, that is all recorded in the mind of Yamarāja. Manasaiva pure devaḥ pūrva-rūpaṁ vipaśyati. Because they are so recorded, he can see vividly what this man was doing. Anumīmāṁsate apūrvam. Apūrvam means the next body. Pūrvam means the past body, and apūrvam the next body. So he immediately decides what kind of body this criminal, this sinful man, should be offered. Anumīmāṁsati apūrvaṁ manasā. That is also by his mind. He is so powerful. Therefore he has been addressed as Bhagavān. Anumīmāṁsati. Just like the judge. He is hearing the case. That is everyone. Anyone who is hearing something, so he makes a conclusion, "This should be done like that." The judgment...

There was one story. It is not story; it is fact, that two pleaders were talking about the activities of a criminal, and the judge was dozing. So his clerk said, "Sir, you are dozing. The two big lawyers, they are arguing, and what they will say?" That means he warned. The judge said, "I have already made my judgment. Let them go on talking." So actually, it is done. A very important judge, he, by hearing the preliminary points of the case, he makes his judgment. But because the two lawyers want to fight, because they are paid for that, so they go on fighting. But the judge, he has already concluded what judgment should be given. Similarly, Yamarāja is judge. He has got everything recorded in his mind of a sinful man's activities in the past. So immediately he decides that "This soul should be given such and such body." So we are getting body.

*In another place, in the Third Canto, I think, it is described, karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. We are acting in different way. We are not independent. This is foolishness. Just like an outlaw. He is thinking that he is free from the jurisdiction of state laws, and he is working irresponsibly, but when he is arrested, then he has no independence. He has to undergo the punishment. Similarly, in this life we may think very independent, "Whatever we like, we can do." That is foolishness. You cannot do that. If you do it wilfully, then you will be punished. That they do not know. Punished means by a different body. If a man, human being, is punished to stand up like as a tree for five thousand years, just imagine how much great punishment it is. And that is possible. Just like in the śāstra it is stated that those who want to remain naked, they are punished in the next life to become tree, that "You wanted to be naked. Now you stand naked." The trees, they do not dress; *neither they have the opportunity. Nobody goes to dress them. So they stand naked for so many hundreds and thousands of years. This punishment is awaiting. Human being is not supposed to be naked. That is civilization. They must cover. But if one wilfully does not cover, becomes as dull as the tree, then he gets the next body as tree. This is punishment. Otherwise, wherefrom all these living entities are coming? They have no calculation. They are thinking that "I shall remain in this human form of beautiful body and in opulent..." No, changing. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You have to change your body according to the decision of superior authority, daiva-netreṇa. We should always remember it.

*Therefore a human being should be very, very cautious and conscious. They should not do anything irresponsibly. And how to work with responsibility and how to work irresponsibly? Therefore śāstra required. Śāstra, these books, Vedic knowledge, books, why they are? So that a human being may take advantage of it and he act responsibly or irresponsibly. If he works irresponsibly, then his punishment is awaiting, lower grade of life. So human being should be educated how to... Therefore these children are being educated from the very beginning of their life how to become responsible man. This is the idea of our gurukula. So these children should be taught. Yesterday Dayananda was talking with me that while living at gurukula they should be very nicely trained up. Nīcavat. The children, they have no sense what is prestige. You can train them any way. If you train them to work as a servant, they will work it. So in the gurukula they should live just to be trained up how to control the senses. Brahmacārī. Brahmacārī mean life of celibacy, no sex. That is brahmacārī, strictly. Brahmacārati iti brahmacārī. So ordinary brain or brain with cow dung, they cannot understand the spiritual science. Therefore the brahmacārī should be trained up how to control the senses. Then they will be able to understand. The brain will be sharp. Instead of discharging semina, there are brahmacārīs who takes the semina to the brain. They are called ūrdhvaretaḥ, means the brain becomes very, very fertile. Once heard from the spiritual master or teacher, he will remember. He will never forget. Therefore, formerly there was no written book. Śruti, simply by hearing, a brahmacārī would be educated, simply by hearing. There was no need of books, writing. Therefore the Vedic literature is known as śruti. It is to be learned by hearing. Even there is book, still, one has to learn it by hearing from the realized soul. Therefore it is called śruti. So this śruti memorizing power should be increased if one observes strictly the life of celibacy. This is the science. Therefore brahmacārī is taught strictly. The brahmacārī is supposed to remain in gurukula up to the twenty*-fifth year. He is trained up. Then if guru finds him that he requires to be married, then he goes home and he is married. Otherwise the teaching is to remain a brahmacārī throughout the whole life. There is no need of entering...

*Because this human life is meant for God realization. It is not meant for sex enjoyment or sense gratification. It is simply meant for... Here is an opportunity to understand one's constitutional position, that he is spirit soul, and Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Lord is also spirit soul. So the spirit soul, individual soul, is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is his duty to remain with the whole. Just like a mechanical part, a screw in a typewriter machine. If the screw remains with the machine, then it has got value. And if the screw remains without the machine, it has no value. Who cares for a small screw? But when that screw is wanting in a machine, you go to purchase*-they will charge five dollars. Why? When it is fixed up with the machine, it has got value. There are so many example. Just like sparks of the fire. When the fire is burning, you will find small particle of spark, "Fut! Fut!" with this. It is very beautiful. It is very beautiful because it is with the fire. And as soon as the spark falls down out of the fire, then it has no value. Nobody cares for that. It is finished. Similarly, so long we are with Kṛṣṇa, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got value. And as soon as we are out of Kṛṣṇa touch, then we have no value. We should understand that.

So how to keep oneself always with Kṛṣṇa, that is the aim of human life. And if we do not do that, that is sinful. Then we become punishable, that "You were given the chance to understand yourself, Kṛṣṇa and your relationship with Kṛṣṇa. You did not take this chance." Oh, he is punished: "All right, you become again animal, again in the cycle of birth and death." So we should be very, very careful. Do not think that "We are independent, and we can do whatever nonsense I like." That is very risky life. Do not think like that, foolishly. There is a regular... There is Yamarāja. Because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa wants that "These My sons, rascals, are suffering in this material world. Let them come back home," therefore He comes personally. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmyaham [Bg. 4.7]. He desires that, that "These rascals, they are rotting in this material world, birth after birth. Let them come back." Because He is more affectionate. So... And if he does not utilize this human form of life to take the advantage of going back to home, back to Godhead, that is sinful. Then he is punished.

So the conclusion is that everyone should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement; otherwise, he is awaiting punishment by Yamarāja.

Thank you very much. (end)



760614SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.48

-

Detroit, June 14, 1976



Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "The omnipotent Yamarāja is as good as Lord Brahmā, for while situated in his own abode or in everyone's heart like the Paramātmā, he mentally observes the past activities of a living entity and thus understands how the living entity will act in future lives."



Prabhupāda:



manasaiva pure devaḥ

*pūrva*-rūpaṁ vipaśyati

anumīmāṁsate 'pūrvaṁ

manasā bhagavān ajaḥ

[SB 6.1.48]



*This is called tri*-kala-jña: past, present and future. So Yamarāja or Lord Brahmā or great personalities, they, even great sages, saintly persons, they know the three features of time. Just like yesterday I told you that there is an astrological system; immediately they will speak what I was in my previous life, what I am now and what will be my future life. So Yamarāja is not ordinary person. He is given in charge; *he is also one of the authorities out of twelve authorities. Baliḥ vaiyāsakir vayam. He is one of the authorities about religious performances. So he knows everything even from within his mind, manasaiva pūrva-rūpaṁ vipaśyati, what this person was in the past, because everything is going on exactly on the rulings of the prakṛti, material nature. It cannot be changed. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. This is called destiny. So destiny cannot be changed. With the insight of destiny Yamarāja can understand what was this man previously, what is his position now, and what he's going to become in future. Anumīmāṁsate 'pūrvam. Apūrvam means that which is not yet in vision. Apūrvam, future. Manasā bhagavān ajaḥ. That is also... So therefore he can give judgment within a second. After death those who are sinful they are taken to the Yamarāja's. Just like in the criminal court, those who are criminals, they are taken there. Thieves, rogues, cheater-not ordinary persons, honest persons*-they are not taken there. Similarly, only a few number of the whole human society. Now in the Kali-yuga it is increasing. In the Satya-yuga, Satya-yuga, there was no criminal. Everyone was paramahaṁsa. Then, in the next yuga, Tretā-yuga, seventy-five percent paramahaṁsa, first class; *twenty*-five percent this third class, fourth class. And then in the Dvāpara, half and half. Now in the Kali-yuga, seventy-five percent all rogues and thieves. Maybe twenty-five percent, that is also decreasing. And with the advancement of Kali-yuga, it will be practically nil. This is advancement of Kali-yuga.



*Therefore the living entities, means human beings, they have been described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam as manda. Manda means all bad. Manda, there are two meanings, "slow" or "bad." Slow means bad. Slow, if you take the meaning of slow, that will be like this, that this human form of life is meant for spiritual realization. That is the advantage. In the cycle of birth and death, we are rotating. Once a chance is given to decide whether we shall rotate in the cycle of birth and death or we shall go back to home, back to Godhead. That decision rests on this life. It is a very responsible life. Labdhvā sudurlabhaṁ idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte [SB 11.9.29]. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam: "Don't spoil this human form of life like animals." This is the special prerogative, to realize one's spiritual identity and engage oneself in spiritual activities. That is human life. And if we do not take care of it and give(?) us washed away by the waves of material nature, as Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, māyār bośe, yāccho bhese khaccha hābuḍubu bhai... The ocean of nescience, if we place ourselves to be carried away by the waves of nescience, then our life is spoiled. If we want to save our life from this being carried away by the waves of material nature, then we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Jīv kṛṣṇa dās ei viśvās korle to' ār duḥkha nai. This is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song, that if we simply accept this truth, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then we are immediately free.

*So to come to this understanding in the material world... In other ages, they voluntarily used to take up how to make life perfect, but in this Kali*-yuga, everyone is manda. Manda means very, very slow. They do not care that there is next life, and we have to take care of it and make our next life spiritual or go back to home, back to Godhead. These things we do not... Perhaps this message is being distributed by this movement only. Otherwise, people are in darkness, very slow, and most of them very bad, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. And if one is a little interested, then he's captured by some party. Sumanda-matayo. Mata means cult. So many cults there are. They'll mislead. So people are attracted by such cults. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ. And everyone is unfortunate. They have no fixed, I mean to say, arrangement, even for the bare necessities of life. What the animals, birds and beasts, they have got arrangement, they believe in that, but our human society, because we are so advanced, there are so many hundreds and thousands of men, there is no fixed purpose of life. Even in your rich country we see such men without any purpose, without any aim of life. So they are called manda-bhāgyāḥ, most unfortunate. Most unfortunate. Manda-bhāgyāḥ and upadrutāḥ. Over and above that, they are always disturbed. This is the condition of life.

*So those who are saintly persons or those who are following the path of Yamarāja... Yamarāja is mahājana. As Yamarāja knows, anyone who follows the mahājana... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We cannot ascertain what is our aim of life, so we have to follow these mahājanas. Yamarāja is mahājana. Baliḥ vaiyāsakir vayam. So, (reading:) "One should not consider Yamarāja an ordinary living being. He's as good as Lord Brahmā. He has the complete cooperation of the Supreme Lord, who is situated in everyone's heart, and therefore by the grace of the Supersoul he can see the past, present and future of a living being from within. The word anumīmāṁsate means that he can decide in consultation with the Supersoul. Anu means 'following.' The actual decisions concerning the next lives of the living entities are made by the Supersoul and they are carried out by Yamarāja." So actual witness is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Everyone's heart He's living. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi*-sanniviṣṭo

smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo

*vedānta*-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham

[Bg. 15.15]



*So Supersoul, and there are many other witnesses. We cannot avoid. That we have discussed already. The sun is witness, the moon is witness, the day is witness, the directions are witness. We cannot avoid any one of them. So we must know what is sinful activities, what we should do, what is religious, what is not religious. On the whole, if we, I mean to say, intelligent, then we can learn from Bhagavad*-gītā that we become all perfect as soon as we surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. If we take this... Kṛṣṇa comes here on this planet. When He comes within this universe He comes on this planet, and He appears in Vṛndāvana. So these are special features of this planet. So He comes to give us enlightenment. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavaty bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. He comes, He's so kind, and gives us instruction. The most confidential instruction is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful.



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



Simply by this understanding, kevalayā bhaktyā.



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nihāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



Aghaṁ dhunvanti, this material life means full of sinful activities. Either little... Sinful activities are sinful activities. It may be, according to the material calculation, these are good sinful activities and these are bad sinful activities. No, sinful activities are sinful activities. And what is our sinful activity? As soon as we forget Kṛṣṇa, everything we do, that is sinful. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino prapadyante narādhamāḥ. This is the criterion, test, that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, if he's not a surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa, whatever activities they are doing, that is all sinful. This is the conclusion. So we should always remain in full understanding, that whether our time is being properly utilized in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then we axe saved. Otherwise we are under the clutches of māyā, and Yamarāja is there, and immediately we get a certain type of body for another term of suffering.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750801SB.NO

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.49

-

New Orleans Farm, August 1, 1975



Harikeśa (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "As a person in a dream while sleeping acts according to the body manifested in his dream, or accepts the body as himself, similarly, he identifies the present body as himself, which was acquired on account of past religious or irreligious life, and is not able to know of his past or future life."



Prabhupāda:



yathājñas tamasā (yukta)

upāste vyaktam eva hi

na veda pūrvam aparaṁ

*naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtis tathā

[SB 6.1.49]



This is our position. This is our advancement of science, that we do not know "What I was before this life and what I shall become after this life?" Life is continuation. That is spiritual knowledge. But they do not know also even that life is continuation. They think, "By chance, I have got this life, and it will be finished after death. There is no question of past, present or future. Let us enjoy." This is called ignorance, tamasā, irresponsible life.



*So ajñaḥ. Ajñaḥ means one who has no knowledge. And who has no knowledge? Now, tamasā. Those who are in the modes of ignorance. There are three kinds of material nature, modes: sattva, raja, tamas. Sattva*-guṇa means everything is clear, prakāśa. Just like now the sky is covered with cloud; *the sunshine is not clear. But above the cloud there is sunshine, everything clear. And within the cloud there is not clear. Similarly, those who are in the sattva*-guṇa, for them everything is clear, and those who are in the tamo-guṇa, everything is ignorance, and those who are mixed up, neither rajo-guṇa, neither tamo-guṇa, via media, they are called rajo-guṇa. Three guṇas. Tamasā. So they are simply interested in the present body, does not care what is going to happen, and has no knowledge what he was before. There is another place it is described: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Pramattaḥ, just like madman. He does not know why he has become mad. He forgets. And by his activities, what is going to happen next, he does not know. Madman.

So this civilization, modern civilization, is just like madman civilization. They have no knowledge of past life, neither they are interested in the future life. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And fully engaged in sinful activities because they have no knowledge of the past life. Just like a dog. Why he has become dog, that he does not know and what he is going to have next? So a dog might have been in his past life the prime minister, but when he gets the dog's life, he forgets. That is also another influence of māyā. Prakṣepātmikā-śakti, āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. Māyā has got two potencies. If somebody for his past sinful activities has become a dog, and if he remembers that "I was prime minister; now I have become dog," it will be impossible for him to live. Therefore māyā covers his knowledge. Mṛtyu. Mṛtyu means forgetting everything. That is called mṛtyu. So that we have got experience every day and night. When at night we dream in a separate atmosphere, separate life, we forget about this body, that "I am lying down. My body is lying down in a very nice apartment, very nice bedding." No. Suppose he is loitering on the street or he is on the hill. So he is taking, in dream, he is taking... Everyone, we take interest of that body. We forget the past body. So this is ignorance. So ignorance, the more we become elevated from ignorance to knowledge, that is success of life. And if we keep ourself in ignorance, that is no success. That is spoiling the life.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to raise a person from ignorance to knowledge. That is the whole scheme of Vedic literature: to deliver a person. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā about the devotees*-not for all-teṣāṁ ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt [Bg. 12.7]. Another:

teṣāṁ evānukampārtham

*aham ajñāna*-jaṁ tamaḥ

*nāśayāmy ātma*-bhāvastho

*jñāna*-dīpena bhāsvatā

[Bg. 10.11]



*For special, for the devotees... He is situated in everyone's heart, but a devotee who is trying to understand Kṛṣṇa He helps. He helps. To the nondevotees, they have no concern with the... They are just like animal*-eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. They do not care for anything, to understand God or his relationship with God. For them, they think there is no God, and Kṛṣṇa also says, "Yes, there is no God. You sleep." That's all. Therefore sat-saṅga required. This sat-saṅga, satāṁ prasaṅgāt. By the association of devotee we awaken our inquisitiveness about God. Therefore the centers are required. It is not unnecessarily we are opening so many centers. No. It is for the benefit of the human society. (aside:) You can... This fly...



Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that paropakāra, benefit of the human society. All living entities within this material world, they are in ignorance, all 8,400,000 different forms of life. (aside:) This nearby come, the... Come near. Yes. This is specially meant for driving away the flies. (laughter) Yes. This cāmara is meant for that. Even it is touching body, there is no harm. So all living entities, they are ajñaḥ; *they have forgotten what is the value of life. So in the human form of life, where there is chance of getting the real light, if they spoil in this way like cats and dogs, the whole world, what is the position of the world? Very precarious condition. So paropakāra. Therefore those who have got enlightenment, they should try to raise these rascals who are in ignorance. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says, bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila jāra: "Anyone who has taken birth in Bhārata-varṣa, India, as human being, not cats and dogs," janma sārthaka kari, "first of all make your life successful," then paropakāra, "then distribute the knowledge." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. How? Why He is stressing on Indian? Now, because it is in India you will find these śāstras, the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and many others, not in other places. The four Vedas; then the explanation of the Vedas, Upaniṣad; *summarization of the Vedas, Vedānta*-sūtra; then historically explanation, Purāṇas; *then actual history, Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa*-so these things are available in India. And one should take advantage of this śāstra and make his life successful and then preach all over the world.

*So in this paramparā system, this knowledge has come to your country, America. You are intelligent. You are prosperous. So take this knowledge seriously and at least distribute this knowledge properly for the benefit of your people. Otherwise the world is in very, very precarious condition, and although the human form of life is obtained for the success of life, they are being kept purposefully all ignorantly in darkness. So, na veda pūrvam aparaṁ naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtis tathā. Just like Bharata Mahārāja, he was a great devotee, but somehow or other, he was very much attached to one, a small deer. He had to accept the body of a deer. But he did not forget about his last birth. That is special prerogative for advanced devotees. Nature's law is that at the time of death, what you think, you get the body. That is nature's law. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6], Kṛṣṇa says. So we have to train up our bhāva, our thoughts. If we keep always in Kṛṣṇa thoughts, then naturally at the time of death we may remember Kṛṣṇa. That is success. Then immediately tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately you are transferred to the Kṛṣṇaloka, and according to your desire, you become amongst the gopīs or the cowherds boys or the cows and the calves. They are all equal. There is no... That is spiritual world. Here there is difference between the man, woman, cows, or trees, or flowers. No. In the spiritual world there is no such difference. The flower is also devotee, living. The flower wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as flower. The calf wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as calf. The gopīs want to serve Kṛṣṇa as gopī. They are all the same, but according to the varieties-yesterday I was speaking of the variety-varieties of desires to serve Kṛṣṇa... So that is spiritual world. And material world? The same varieties are there, imitation, but everyone wants to satisfy sense gratification. There is no desire for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between material world and the spiritual world. In the spiritual world all the varieties are there, and they are all spirit. There is no touch of matter. They are all conscious. When the flower is there in the hand of Kṛṣṇa, in the lotus hand, he is conscious. He is enjoying that "I wanted to serve Kṛṣṇa as flower; now I am enjoying." That is spiritual. They are all conscious. So in this way we shall keep ourself always Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, even though we fall down just like Bharata Mahārāja fell down, became... He lost one birth. He became too much attached to that animal. He forgot his daily routine work. And the description is there in the, I think, which canto? What?

Devotee: Fifth Canto.



*Prabhupāda: Fifth Canto. He became always attached to that. Therefore the nature's punishment was that he had to accept the body of a deer. But he was conscious, not that naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtiḥ. He did not forget what he was. He understood that "I was engaged in advancing in spiritual consciousness. Unnecessarily I became attached to this animal. Now I have got this animal body." So he was keeping himself always with the devotees. That was his advantage. Then the next life he again took birth in a brāhmaṇa family, and he remained just like a dull. He was very much afraid to mix with the society so that he may not be misled. Therefore his name was Jaḍa Bharata. Jaḍa means dull. People used to think him as the dull-headed fool. But he was conscious of his position. He kept himself like that. Then Rahūgaṇa, the King Rahūgaṇa, understood that "He is keeping himself as dull, but he is most intelligent, advanced in spiritual consciousness," and there was talk. And so, in next birth Bharata Mahārāja, Jaḍa Bharata, got his salvation.



*So we shall be very much cautious so that we do not forget our responsibility. Naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtiḥ, it is not good. Naṣṭa-janma. We must be responsible that "We have got this birth," labdhvā su-durlabhaṁ bahu-sambhavānte, "after many, many births, after much suffering in so many species of life, one after another, one after an..." And unfortunately, the people are so dull-headed, they do not care for it. But this is the most important subject matter of life. So those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they should take charge, that "These rascals are suffering. Let them have some idea about Kṛṣṇa." That is wanted. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I am very glad that you are seriously interested, and Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon you. And that you are sincerely trying, I can understand from these tulasī plants. Yes. This is the practical demonstration. Unless there is bhakti, this tulasī plant will not grow. We must be very much thankful to our Govinda dāsī. She first of all cultivated the tulasī plant in Hawaii. And now our tulasī plants are distributed. So she has done a great service. I think I gave her the seeds, and she very nicely done it. Now everywhere we see tulasī plant. It is very pleasing. So the same thing-Deity worship and watering the tulasī plants, chanting sixteen rounds at least, and observing the rules and regulation, regulative principle... Then your life is successful. Don't neglect. Very seriously continue. And in this one life you are going back to home, back to Godhead. It is sure. I am not flattering you. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. Asaṁśayaḥ, "Without any doubt, simply following these rules and regulation," mām evaiṣyasi, "you come back to Me."

*So take these words of Kṛṣṇa, guru*-Kṛṣṇa. The guru will also..., the same thing, what Kṛṣṇa has said. And follow the principles. Your life is successful. Now, this place I see, although I have not seen all, is a nice place. And the gṛhasthas may come here, have some small cottage, and grow your own food grains, vegetables, and have your cow's milk. Get nice foodstuff, save time. Why should you go in the city, hundred miles in car and again hundred miles come back and take unnecessary trouble? Stick to this spot and grow your own food, your own cloth, and live peacefully, save time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very nice program. This is actual life. What is this nonsense life, big, big cities and always people busy? If he wants to see one friend, he has to go thirty miles. If he has to see a physician, he has to go fifty miles. If he has to go to work, another hundred miles. So what is this life? This is not life. Be satisfied. The devotee's life should be yāvad artha-prayojanam. We require material necessities as much as it is required, no artificial life. That is spiritual life. Simply increasing artificial life, even for shaving, a big machine is required. What is this? Simply wasting time. Devil's workshop. Make life very simple. And simple living, high thinking, and always conscious to go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is life. Not this life, that simply machine, machine, machine, machine. So if you show practical example that how you are living simple life and how you are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then people will learn from you. You American people, if you show example, people will try to follow you, and they will be happy. So I am very glad to see this farm. Develop it nicely, live peacefully, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





760615SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.49

-

Detroit, June 15, 1976



*Gaura*-Nitāi Installation and Initiations



Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "As a sleeping person acts according to the body manifested in his dreams and accepts it to be himself, so one identifies with his present body, which he acquired because of his past religious or irreligious actions, and is unable to know his past or future lives."



Prabhupāda:



yathājñas tamasā yukta

upāste vyaktam eva hi

na veda pūrvam aparaṁ

*naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtis tathā

[SB 6.1.49]



*So ignorance, a very good example is given here, that in dream we forget everything, that I am Mr. such and such, I am inhabitant of such and such place*-everything forgotten. And again when we are awakened, we forget about the dream. This is our daily experience. But in my awakening stage or dreaming stage, I am seeing both the activities. In the dream, I am the seer, and so-called awake, I am the seer. So I, the spirit soul, experiencing, I remain the same, but circumstances change. Similarly, in our previous birth, what I was, what you were, we cannot remember. Similarly, you do not know what you are going to become next. But it is a fact that I am, as spirit soul, I am eternal, present. I was present in the past, I am present in the present time, and I'll continue to be present in future.



*That is explained in Bhagavad*-gītā, that "Arjuna, yourself, Myself, and all these persons who have assembled in this battlefield, all of us, we were existing before, we are existing now, and we shall continue to exist." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is the first, preliminary knowledge of understanding spiritual life, that "I am eternal." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin. As spirit soul, I do not take birth, neither I die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. I am not finished with the destruction of this material body. That is going on already. My childhood body is destroyed now. You cannot find out where is that body. My youthhood body, that is destroyed. We cannot find out anymore. So in this way, this body will be also destroyed, and we shall get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. In this way, we are changing body, one after another. So why there are different types of body? That means the living entity, spirit soul, he is contacting different types of material modes of nature. And according to that, we are developing a gross body. The transmigration of the soul means the gross body is lost. Because anything material, it will be finished. That is the nature of material, anything material. It will be finished. But the spirit soul is not finished.

*So we have got this body according to our past work. Karmaṇā daivā*-netreṇa jantra jantor deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. How one gets a particular type of body? Because according to his past karma. Nature will automatically act. Just like if you contact some contaminous disease, nature will act. You will have to undergo the process of disease or develop that disease. So nature's law is working so nicely. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everything is being done by the laws of nature. So, human body, when we are civilized, we should know that "Why I am suffering?" Although under the spell of māyā we take suffering as enjoyment. That is called māyā. Māyā means what is not. We are thinking we are enjoying, but actually we are suffering. In this material body we have to suffer. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. This example is given by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, that suffering means on account of this body. There is pinching cold, scorching heat. We feel these things on account of this body. At a certain circumstances, we feel pain; *at a certain circumstance we feel happy. But actually, this so*-called happiness and distress is due to the body.

*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino 'nityās

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



*Kṛṣṇa has advised that this material happiness and distress, they are on account of this body. They come and go. They do not stay. So long we are in this material world, this happiness and distress will come and go. Just like seasonal changes: it does not stay. It comes and again goes away. So we should not be disturbed. (aside:) If you want to stand, you can stand. It comes and goes. We should not be disturbed. Our real business is to realize ourself, self*-realization, That must go on. It must not stop. That is human life. Suffering and so-called suffering, distress, that will go on so long we have got this body. But we must come to the knowledge that "I am, I have got this body due to my past activities." That is knowledge. Karmaṇā daivā-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1].



So a sensible man should consider: "Is it not possible to stop this material body? Because I am spirit soul, it is simply covering." Here, that is human life: how to stop this contamination of this material body. So, so long we shall work irresponsibly,

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛnoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada asa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



We do not understand that this deha, this body, is always kleśada. Kleśada means giving pains. For the time being, we may feel some pleasure, but actually it is a reservoir of pain, not pleasure. The example is given in this connection... Formerly, this was done by the government servants to criminal, to take a man in the middle of the river and drown him, and catching his hair, and when he's almost suffocating, then they again draw from the water and he takes little rest and again put him into the water. So that was the system of punishment. Similarly, whatever little pleasure we are feeling, that is exactly similarly the man, when he's taken from the water, that's all. Again he's to be drowned. This material world is like that.



*Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was minister of the then Muhammadan government. So he presented himself to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that: ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. This is the intelligence, that "I am undergoing constantly some sort of distresses due to this body, due to this mind, due to distresses inflicted by other living entities, and due to natural disturbances. A combination of distresses. But I don't want all these distresses." Everyone is aware. He doesn't want distresses, but it is enforced. This should be the question, to... When one accepts the spiritual master... Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is by his practical example, he said that one should go and inquire from the spiritual master that "Why I am in this condition of life, always suffering?" Tri-tāpa yātanā. But we have become so dull, like the animals. The animals, they cannot question. They are suffering. Everyone knows animal life is full of suffering, but they cannot realize. But a human being can realize. And when the question comes, when he becomes intelligent enough that "Why I am suffering?" then his human life begins. Otherwise, he is animal. The animal cannot inquire. An animal is being taken to the slaughterhouse, but he cannot question or inquire that "Why I am taken by force in this slaughterhouse?" That is animal. But if you take one human being to be killed, if he understands, he'll make a great noise, that "This man is going, taking me. Why I am being...," so on, so on. Yes. That is human life. That is the distinction between human life and animal life, that one can understand that "Why I am put into this condition of suffering?" This is called brahma-jijñāsā. That is the beginning of Vedānta philosophy. athāto brahma jijñāsā. Then we understand, one after another.

So we should take advantage. Not that we shall live like animal, without any inquiry, without finding out the remedy, how to stop this miserable condition of life. We are actually trying. Everyone is working so hard, struggle for existence. He is trying. Why one is trying to get money? Because he thinks that "If I get money, then the distressed condition in which I am suffering, it can be mitigated." So the struggle for existence is going on. Everyone is trying to become happy. But that is not in the material way. Material way, we are trying to get happiness, that means sense gratification. That is not happiness. Happiness means spiritual happiness. That is happiness. This material happiness is temporary. That is not happiness, but perverted happiness. It is exemplified just like we are trying to find out water in the desert. Actually in the desert there is no water, but an animal, he sees that there is water in the desert, as we also see. But we are human being. We know in the desert there is no water, it is a reflection of the sunshine. But animal does not know. He's thirsty, he looks after the water in the desert. So this is the distinction between animal and human life.

*So by understanding knowledge, real life from sādhu-śāstra*-guru-vākya, by approaching saintly persons, sādhu... Śāstra means authorized scriptures. Sādhu, śāstra and guru, and spiritual master. This is the source of knowledge. And the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In order to learn that higher transcendental platform of knowledge, one should approach a guru, bona fide guru, who knows.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



This is the process. So,



yathājñas tamasā yukta

upāste vyaktam eva hi

na veda pūrvam aparaṁ

*naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtis tathā



*Naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtis. We are changing the circumstances, naṣṭa-janma-smṛtis. As soon as one form of body is finished... Death means forgetfulness. Death means forgetfulness. Everyone is continuing life, but when one forgets the activities of this life and accepts another body, that is called death. Otherwise, a spirit soul has no death. So therefore we should be careful that I have already got this body which is meant for suffering. More or less, it doesn't matter. There is suffering. A cat or dog is suffering more than a human being, but it does not mean that the human being is without suffering. That is not possible. Everyone is suffering. So in the human form of life we can inquire, "Why I am suffering." That is human being. So śāstra says that you are already suffering, in any form of body. Either you are President Nixon or a man in the street, you are already suffering. That's a fact. Now you are suffering on account of this body. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And still you are doing something which will cause to accept another material body. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And you are suffering because you indulged in your past life sense gratification, and you have got this body according to karma, and again, if you are engaged in sense gratification, do not try to elevate yourself from this platform of sense gratification, then you'll again suffer. You'll get, by nature's way, you'll get another body according to the desire. According to the mentality you create at the time of death, nature will supply you another body. And as soon as you get another body, your suffering begins. Your suffering immediately begins, even from the womb of the mother. As soon as the body is developed, the suffering is there. To remain in that compact bag and for so many months, hands and legs all tied up, cannot move. And nowadays there is risk of being killed also. There is so much suffering from the beginning of my body in the mother's womb. And then I come out, again suffering, again suffering.



*So one should have the sense that so long we shall go on accepting this material body, the sufferings will go on. We simply forget. So this awakening of consciousness is possible simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. It is so simple thing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then you'll understand. Ceto-darpaṇa. Suffering means there are so many dirty things within our heart. That is the cause of suffering. Just like a criminal: he has got the dirty things within the mind, that "If I get such and such things, I'll be happy." And he takes the risk of criminality at the risk of life. A burglar, a thief goes, he knows that "If I am captured, I'll be killed, I'll be punished, I'll be handed over to the police," and so on, so on, and still he goes and steals. Why? That is śāstra, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ: he has become mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Why he's taking so much risk? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītayā [SB 5.5.4], simply for sense gratification. That's all. Simply for sense gratification.

*So Ṛṣabhadeva said, "For only sense gratification, why you are accepting so much suffering life after life? Now you have got this human form of life, you just try to rectify, that no more material body. This is human life." Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. "You purify your existence, tapa, by tapasya, by austerity, penances." Therefore in the human life you'll find so many tapasvīs undergoing tapasya. Voluntarily not accepting the so*-called material pleasures, that is called tapasya. Tapo divyam. So tapo means undergo some austerities, penances, for divyam. For awakening your spiritual existence. Then your struggle for existence will stop. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Just like one man is infected with some disease. That is aśuddha, impure condition. So we try to make it purified by injection, by medicine. And similarly, we are getting repeatedly different types of body. Now we should purify this bodily existence. And that purification in this age, it is very, very simple: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So very simple thing. There is no question of cast, creed, nationality, color, richness. No. Everyone has got the tongue by the grace of God. Everyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So just continue and be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



750803SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.50

-

Detroit, August 3, 1975



Nitāi: (leads chanting, etc.) "The mind is the sixteenth item, and above the mind, the soul is the seventeenth item. He is the living being; therefore he is one only. In cooperation with the other fifteen items along with the mind, the living entity is enjoying the material world alone. The instruments are the five sense organs, the five working organs, and the five objects of the senses. Thus the mind is sixteen and the living entity himself is seventeen. In this way the living entity is enjoying different situations of three types, namely happiness, distress, or a mixture of both."



Prabhupāda:



pañcabhiḥ kurute svārthān

pañca vedātha pañcabhiḥ

ekas tu ṣoḍaśena trīn

svayaṁ saptadaśo 'śnute

[SB 6.1.50]



*So we are fallen into great ocean of nescience, covered. First of all the five senses, knowledge*-acquiring senses, jñānendriya and karmendriya, working senses, ten, and sense object... We have got eyes; therefore eyes are engaged for seeing something beautiful, rūpa. Rasa. Rasa means taste. That is the business of the tongue. And to see beautiful thing, that is the business of the eyes. Rūpa, rasa, śabda. Śabda means sound. The ear, we have got ear. We want to hear nice songs, music, radio, television. So ear is there; the objects are there. Rūpa, rasa, śabda, gandha, smelling. There is good odor also, bad odor also. Rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśā. In this way we are entangled, completely under the laws of material nature. I am the spirit soul. Saptadaśaḥ. I have given my power of attorney to the mind, and mind is creating different varieties of the śabda, sparśā, rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśā. In this way, life after life, as it is explained in the previous verse,



yathājñas tamasā

upāste vyaktam eva hi

na veda pūrvam aparaṁ

*naṣṭa*-janma-smṛtis tathā



*So naṣṭa*-jan... I do not know. I do not know means I cannot remember what I did in my past life and what is going to happen in the next life, in ignorance, tamasā. Ajñas tamasā upāste. This is tamo-guṇa. The present life as it is, we try to enjoy-that's all-without caring for the next life, or without understanding what was my past life. But human being should be intelligent enough that "Why...? I am enjoying or I am suffering. The other person, he is differently enjoying or suffering differently. Why the differences are there?" This is intelligence. Why not one kind of enjoyment? Why not everyone millionaire? Why not everyone pauper, or poor? There are varieties. So they do not consider it. They are so fool, they... They should, that "Why I am put into this condition? Why he is put into another condition? Why the other is put in another condition?" That is called tamasā. They do not care to know also. Tamasā. Tamase ca.



So this is not life. This is animal life. Therefore Vedic injunction is, "Don't keep in this animal life." Tamasi mā: "Don't keep yourself in this darkness." Jyotir gama: "Come to the light." So jyotir gama means... That is tapasya. To come to the platform of light, it requires tapasya, austerity. That is required. The human life is meant for tapasya, to come to the life platform. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1]. Tamasic or tamas, or darkness, means just like a person is attacked with tuberculosis, but he doesn't care for it. But intelligent man goes to the physician, asks that "Why I am suffering? What is the medicine?" That is intelligence. So human life begins when one is inquisitive to know, "Why I am suffering?" That is human life. And if he keeps himself in darkness-"Oh, this is... Suffering is suffering. Let me enjoy..." Sometimes they want to forget the suffering by another suffering, drinking or LSD, to forget suffering. That is another suffering, another suffering so much so that one becomes crazy and commits suicide. This is going on, a very precarious life. And human life is the only opportunity to rectify these mistakes and come to his original position, constitutional position, means the spiritual platform.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*That is wanted. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ. As soon as one becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ, then immediately he becomes prasannātmā, jubilant, just like one is suffering from a disease, and some way or other, when he is relieved from that disease, immediately he becomes jubilant. That is required. That is wanted. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. And when one becomes jubilant, then, in that attitude, one can enter into devotional service of the Lord, not in the material condition, which is always suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. But we go on suffering just like animal. Animal is being taken to the slaughterhouse; still, he is eating very jubilantly. Next item, he will be killed. So this kind of consciousness is called animal consciousness.



*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke

*svā*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*(janeṣu abhijñeṣu) sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go*-kharaḥ.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to deliver people from this ignorant ignorance platform and bring him to the light platform, or..., and knowledge platform, so that one can understand what is his constitutional position, how he can stop the sufferings of life, and how one can become eternally blissful life of knowledge. [break] ...ness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He has given us the Śikṣāṣṭaka. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. By chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... [break] In the Bhāgavata says tapasā. Tapasā means "by undergoing severe austerities, penances." Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena vā [SB 6.1.13]. This is the instruction in the śāstra. One has to become perfect by tapasā, by austerities. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa. And becoming brahmacārī, celibate. What is called? Celibate life? Eh?

Jagadīśa: Celibacy.



*Prabhupāda: Celibacy, yes. Life of celibacy, controlling the sex desire. This is tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena vā [SB 6.1.13]. These things are education. And what is this nonsense education how to become a big mechanics of motorcar parts? This is not education. This is śūdra, śūdra education. It is not education. It is called śilpa. Śilpa*-vidyā, brahma-vidyā. Vidyā means brahma-vidyā. Therefore, in the Vedic society, education was meant for the brāhmaṇas. Education was not meant for the śūdras. Education was meant for the brāhmaṇas, and partially of the kṣatriyas, neither of the vaiśyas nor of the śūdras. What education? Vaiśyas livelihood is, or his occupational duty is, how to produce food, how to give protection to the cows, and if there is excess stock, how to trade with it. So anyone can learn by seeing only. It doesn't require any high education. If the father is tilling the field, the son can learn it by seeing it. If the father... Just like in Vṛndāvana, we... Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa was going to tend the cows and calves of Nanda Mahārāja. There was no education. It can be learned simply by seeing others doing that. So at the present moment education means many Indians are coming to America to learn how to polish motorcar parts or how to create technology. So this is not education. This is not ed... But the Europeans and Americans, they are going to India for learning brahma-vidya. That is education. The Europeans and Americans, when they go to Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur, they do not go there to see how we have manufacturd cycle and machine for sewing. They have seen enough of this. We may be very proud in India: "Now we are manufacturing cycle and sewing machine or some motor parts, advanced." This is not advanced. Education means how to make one brāhmaṇa, how to teach him how he become sense controlled, śama, dama, mind control, how to become truthful, how to become clean, how to become simple, how to become full of knowledge, how to apply knowledge in practical life, how to know God. This is education. This is education.



*So the present situation of the human civilization is very, very dark, tamasā. They want to live in the city without working for producing their food. And there are butchers, they kill innocent animals. And in the city they eat the meat, and to digest they drink and work like hogs and dogs whole day and night. This is civilization. This is not civilization. This is darkness, darkness of life. So we are in the darkness of life at the present moment because it is Kali*-yuga, and... The system is always there so long the material world is there and the living entities are fallen in this material world. So they are implicated more or less. So in the Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga, they were not so implicated as they are implicated at this moment, Kali-yuga, because the age of misunderstanding... And the duration of age is also very short. Prāyeṇa alpa āyuṣaḥ. In this age people are living not very long. Although the limit is hundred years, nobody is living hundred years. It is reduced, reduced, more and more. In the Kali-yuga the memory will be reduced, the duration of life will be reduced, the strength of the body will be reduced, people's sense of mercifulness will be reduced. In this way there are eight items mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it will be reduced.

*So this is the age of Kali, and we are in darkness, and a mode of life just like animals. So this is our position. But the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, He is sympathetic. He comes, therefore. He comes... He came in the Dvāpara*-yuga, by the end of Dvāpara-yuga, and He left behind Him this Bhagavad-gītā, being merciful upon these conditioned soul, that "You make your life perfect by reading this Bhagavad-gītā. I am leaving behind him. Arjuna is My friend." So in the way of questions or answers and in the way of Arjuna's falling in difficulty... Arjuna was not difficulty. He is personal friend of Kṛṣṇa. But in order to derive the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he showed himself as in ignorance. The benefit is our, that we have got this Bhagavad-gītā. But still, we are so fallen. Because Kṛṣṇa said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, therefore people misunderstood. Again Kṛṣṇa came in this Kali-yuga as Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya nāmne. The Rūpa Gosvāmī, he prayed to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, namo mahā-vadānyāya. Kṛṣṇa came. That's all right. But He was not so liberal. He wanted first of all surrender.

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



*Kṛṣṇa made condition. Kṛṣṇa is personal Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. He came to show His mercy, and therefore He left Bhagavad*-gītā to be read by common... Any common man can understand. But the rascals are so rigid that they will misinterpret. Kṛṣṇa left it for reading it by everyone. Any common man can understand. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. This is the beginning. Any common man can understand. The Kurukṣetra is still there, and it is dharma-kṣetra. Still people go there to take bath in the Brahma-kunda during lunar and solar eclipse. It is a great dharma-kṣetra. But they will interpret, "Dharma-kṣetra kuru-kṣetra means this body." Where they get this meaning? Where is the dictionary? No, because he is scholar, he has invented some meaning. This is going on, and people are misled.



*So the time is very, very, bad, and even there is attempt to deliver them, they are so rigid and so stubborn, dog obstinacy, they want to remain in the doggish condition of life. It is very, very difficult. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind. Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*To understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu After many, many millions of persons, one tries to become siddha. Siddha means to understand what he is, jñāna. That is brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. And yatatām api siddhānām... [Bg. 7.3]. Just like there are two classes of transcendentalists: the Māyāvādī and the Vaiṣṇava. That is all over the world. So Māyāvādī, they are supposed to be siddhas. They are not siddha, but they are trying to become siddha, to understand the spiritual position. Neti neti: "I am not this; I am not this; I am not this." But they are not siddhas. Siddhas, when they will understand that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19], when they will understand Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is everything," sa mahātmā, that mahātmā, not this ordinary mahātmā, "Nārāyaṇa, namo nārāyaṇa..." He is ordinary. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Very rare mahātmā. Who is? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā: [Bg. 7.19] "Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything." That is siddha. Siddha. And again, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3].



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is very kind that without considering whether he is a siddha or viddha or anything else-"Let them take Kṛṣṇa*-prema." Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī prayed to Caitanya Mahāprabhu,

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He understood that "Here is Kṛṣṇa, but He has come now in the most liberal way. Everyone He is giving kṛṣṇa*-prema." How? "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and become a lover of Kṛṣṇa." So nice. Simply by chanting and dancing, one is becoming... Practical it is. All these boys and girls, four or five years ago they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. That is surprising to everyone. The whole world is praising this movement because they see practically that how these European-American boys and girls are so much absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te, kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. So very simple thing. Don't think I have played something wonder. No, it is not my wonder. The process is wonderful, the process itself. You have to simply accept; then your life will be successful. It is not that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has brought this." They say. They give me the credit. That is my good fortune also. But actually I am just like a peon. I have brought, but I am delivering it without any adulteration. That may be my credit. And if you take it without any adulteration and practice it, then your life is successful. This is the secret of success. Chant, dance, take prasādam, live very happily, and look very brilliant, and next life go to home, back to Godhead.



*So kindly... I am very pleased that you are doing nicely. But don't be proud. Always remain humble, meek, that "I am nothing. I cannot..." That will be nice. And if you think, "Now I have become liberated. I can chant and dance," no, don't think like that. Just like even Caitanya*-caritāmṛta author, he says, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha: [Cc. Ādi 5.205] "I am lower than the worm in the stool." Jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha: "I am more sinner than Jagāi-Mādhāi." In this way... That is not artificial. A Vaiṣṇava must think like that, that "I am rotten. I have no value." Don't be proud. Then the things will go on nicely. And as soon as you become proud, then māyā-"Yes, you are God. Come on. I will kick you on your face. Come on." (laughter) These rascals becomes God, and the māyā kicks on the face, and they think that they have become God. Don't become like that. Always remain humble servant and you will be happy.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)





760616SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.50

-

Detroit, June 16, 1976



Devotee: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "Above the five senses of perception, the five working senses and the five objects of the senses is the mind, which is the sixteenth element. Above the mind is the seventeenth element, the soul, the living being himself, who, in cooperation with the other sixteen, enjoys the material world alone. The living being enjoys three kinds of situation, namely happy, distressful and mixed."



Prabhupāda:



pañcabhiḥ kurute svārthān

pañca vedātha pañcabhiḥ

ekas tu ṣoḍaśena trīn

svayaṁ saptadaśo 'śnute

[SB 6.1.50]



*This is the analytical study of our material position. Very clear analysis. We, pañcabhiḥ, with five working senses, voice, vāk, pāṇi, pāyu, udāra, upastha... Voice, arms, legs, anus, and genital. There are twenty*-four, the total material constituent parts are twenty-five, sometimes twenty-six they say. These seventeen and the five elements gross and three subtle elements, in this way, altogether twenty-five including the soul. The soul is pure spirit, and other twenty-four elements, they are different varieties of material covering. In this way we are entangled and we are desiring and nature is giving us facility to enjoy our desires. This is the material world.



*So unless we are free from all kinds of desires, we shall be entangled with these elements. Therefore bhakti, bhakti*-mārga, devotional service, means no more material desire. It is difficult because we are associated with the material desires life after life, from time immemorial. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings therefore: anādi karama phale pori bhavārṇava-jale toribāre na dekhi upāy. Anādi karama, time immemorial I am fallen in this ocean of fruitive activities and I have no rescue from this ocean. Toribāre na dekhi upāy. This is our position. Very, very difficult to come out of these elements. But if we practice, that is possible. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā [Bg. 8.8]. Cetasā nānya-gāminā, this is practice. Mind is going somewhere. When we sit down the mind is manufacturing so many ideas. All of a sudden mind is attracted by something which has no connection with my present position, still, mind is dragging me. Therefore Arjuna said, when he was advised by Kṛṣṇa that "You concentrate your mind..." That is the yoga practice. Yoga-indriya-samyaya. So Arjuna said, "Kṛṣṇa it is not possible for me."

cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa

pramāthi balavad dṛḍham

tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye

vāyor iva suduṣkaram

[Bg. 6.34]



*"It is not possible for me." But if we concentrate our mind on Kṛṣṇa, then it is possible. Otherwise, it is not. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. If we engage our senses only on Kṛṣṇa, always fixed up in Kṛṣṇa, then it is possible.



*So to engage the mind means, as it is said here, that pañcabhiḥ, the mind means controlling all the senses. So if you control the mind, then all the other senses will be controlled. So therefore it is advised that you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha*-guṇānuvarṇane. And vāk, vāṇī, pāyu, the voice, voice, arms, legs, anus and genitals. So voice should be engaged in vibrating Kṛṣṇa activities. You read Bhagavad-gītā, read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and talk about Kṛṣṇa. Then voice is engaged. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Always engage your voice in chanting or speaking about Kṛṣṇa. The mind is engaged automatically. Then arms, the hands, engaged in cleansing the temple. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira mārjanādau **. This is the advice. This is business of guru, to engage. How the arms can be engaged? You can engage your arms for decorating the Deity, for sewing the clothing, dress, garland. In this way you can engage your arms. Voice in speaking about Kṛṣṇa, eyes to see Kṛṣṇa, how nicely decorated, come to the temple. For coming to the temple your legs will be used. And after coming to the temple, your hands will be used, your eyes will be used, your ear will be used, your tongue will be used. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take prasāda. In this way, if we engage all our senses in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are victorious. Otherwise, it is not possible. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. We have got our senses. Senses cannot be stopped working, that is not possible. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they stay that stop, nirvāṇa. Buddha philosophy: stop sense activity. That is not possible. That is impossible. Then how we can control the senses? You can control the senses by engaging all of them in Kṛṣṇa's service. Then it is controlled. Otherwise not.

*Therefore our business is... "Artificially, I shall not see anything." Now how it is possible? You'll see in the mind. Suppose you close your eyes, but there are so many impressions, they will come within the mind. Even if you close your eyes. The so*-called meditation means he has closed his eyes but he's thinking of his beloved or his business or something like, something like that. So is not possible. First of all, you have to fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. That is advised by Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. These four principles guarantees, Kṛṣṇa says. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. If you simply execute these four things, then Kṛṣṇa guarantees, asaṁśaya, without any doubt you are coming back to me, back to home, back to Godhead. It is so nice. So mind engaged in Kṛṣṇa. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. We are seeing Kṛṣṇa here so nicely dressed, decorated, and immediately there is impression with the mind and you can think the whole day. And Kṛṣṇa says he is first-class yogi who,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He is first*-class yogi. There are different types of yogis. Kṛṣṇa says yoginām api sarveṣām. Sarveṣām means all different kinds of yogis. There are many. "But one yogi, bhakta-yogi or dhyāna-yogi, who is always thinking of Me within the mind, he is first class." He is first class. That we have to practice. We have got our senses and the sense... We are covered by the network of the senses. The knowledge gathering senses, the working senses, the sense objects... Everything is explained here.



pañcabhiḥ kurute svārthān

pañca vedātha pañcabhiḥ

ekas tu ṣoḍaśena trīn

svayaṁ saptadaśo 'śnute



*This is practice. This is called bhakti*-yoga, practice. Engage your senses, all senses, working senses and perceiving senses, everything in Kṛṣṇa, and that will make you perfect.



*So the mind, as it is said here... Similarly, Kṛṣṇa personally says that sa vai, yoginām api sarveṣām [Bg. 6.47], sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa, mind, engage always mind. Do something for Kṛṣṇa. Then the mind automatically will be engaged. Something. Just like a nationalist, a family man, he is doing always something for the welfare of the family. Or for the welfare of the society. Or a big, big nationalist, leaders. Why they become big leaders? Why they are worshiped? Because they are thinking always of the nation, of the community. That is good. But a Vaiṣṇava is not only thinking of the community or society or family, he is thinking of all living entities. That is Vaiṣṇava. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, all planets. That is Vaiṣṇava. Nānā-śāstra vicāraṇaika nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. This is Vaiṣṇava business. They are not thinking for a particular... That includes, Kṛṣṇa includes everything. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa, then automatically you'll think of everything. The same process, watering the root. Why we are preaching? Why, what was the necessity to come in the Western country? No. Kṛṣṇa wants, Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants. Therefore devotee goes from town to town, village to village. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma. This is Vaiṣṇava. He is thinking for everyone. Because it is a fact, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone is suffering. That's a fact. So therefore preaching is so important*-to awaken them. Jīva jago, jīva jago, gauracand... This is Gauracand, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, to awaken everyone from this material entanglement. That is preaching.

Actually, they are suffering. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. We are getting these elements according to the circumstances, according to the body. The same encagement, but quality. A dog has got body, I have got body. The body is made of the same ingredients, but according to the body or quality of the body, the thinking, feeling, willing and activities are different. Because mind, mind's sphere of activities is thinking, feeling and willing, psychology. So according to the body... Just like a child. His thinking, feeling, willing is different from the child's father. Why? Because he has got a body, child, and the father has got a different body. People cannot understand. We are changing. Child is the father of man. So the same child, he has become now father, but he's not talking nonsense now because the body has changed. The child is talking so many nonsense things. People laugh, enjoy. But if the father talks nonsense, then he'll be called, "Here is a rascal." Because the body has changed. So in this way, body is being changed. The child is becoming father, the body has changed. Still, you cannot understand how the change of body, transformation of the body, does not make any transformation of the owner of the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam [Bg. 2.13]. He is there, but according to the body he is behaving differently. When he's in the cat's body, he's behaving differently. When he's in a dog's body, he's behaving differently. When he's human body, he's behaving differently. When he's child's body... This is all due to the body.

*So therefore when we come to the full*-fledged human form of life, developed consciousness, we must utilize it, as it is advised by Kṛṣṇa Himself, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. "Always think of Me, man-manā," And who can think of Kṛṣṇa unless he's devotee? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Who is nondevotee, he'll think of something else. "Why I think of Kṛṣṇa?" Therefore to stick to this principle, to apply the mind always in Kṛṣṇa, that means he's devotee. This is devotee. Devotee means not with four hands or four legs, no. The hands, legs are the same. But his mode of thinking different. That's all. That is devotee. Devotee does not depend on the country, color or religion or circumstance. Devotee means the mind. Anyone who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, he is devotee. That is the first qualification of devotee. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Therefore we have to practice. Abhyāsa yoga-yuktena... [Bg. 8.8]. This is called abhyāsa. Mind is going out of my control. I want to think of Kṛṣṇa, but mind is thinking something else. This is called yoga practice. So we have to catch again mind: "Why you are going there? Come here. Think of Kṛṣṇa." Then that is practice. That is called yoga. You cannot allow the mind. And when you can control the mind... Generally, we are controlled by the mind. That is the position of our conditional life. Baddha-jīva, mukta-jīva. Liberated soul and conditioned soul. What is the difference? Conditioned soul means who is becoming conditioned by the mind or controlled by the mind, he is conditioned soul. And liberated soul means who is not conditioned by the mind. Mind says, "Why not smoke one cigarette?" And when you'll be able to say, "No cigarette!" then you've controlled the mind. Mind will say always for some sense gratification. But when you control the mind, then you are liberated person. Therefore the svāmī, svāmī means controller or gosvāmī. Svāmī does not mean you simply stamp over your name "Svāmī." No, svāmī means the controller of the mind. He is not controlled by the mind; he controls the mind. Then he is svāmī. Gosvāmī. Go means senses and svāmī means master. When you are able to control your senses, then you are a gosvāmī or svāmī, the same thing. Otherwise, godāsa. Dāsa means servant. Everyone in this material world, he's godāsa. Godāsa means servant of the mind, servant of the senses. Everyone, servant of the senses. He may be very big man, but he's servant of the senses.

*So the spiritual process, spiritual advancement means that at the present moment we are all servants of the senses or of the mind. Mind is the master of the senses, central point. Therefore if you can control the mind, then you can control the senses. So among the senses, the tongue is the most formidable, very difficult to control. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, tār madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati ta 'ke jetā koṭhina saṁsāre. Of all the senses, the tongue is the strongest enemy, always proposing, "Eat this, eat this, eat this, eat this, eat this." Just see, for tongue, only one person eats little bit of beef only, not much. No, I have seen. A piece of beef. But for the satisfaction of the senses, thousands of innocent animals are being killed. Just see. They cannot control this, a bit of beef. They cannot control. If they decide that we shall not... We are prohibiting, "No meat*-eating." So this is controlling the sense. Because unless you bring the senses under control, there is no question of spiritual advancement. Tār madhye jihvā ati. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. The sense, the tongue, the belly, the straight line, and then the genital. If you can control the tongue, then you can control your belly and then control your genital. And that is required. Unless you can control the genital, there is no question of liberation from this material bondage. This is the principle.

*Therefore by practicing bhakti*-yoga, gradually,... Immediately it is not possible. But gradually, by sticking to the regulative principles and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, we shall be able to control the senses, and the first sense is the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. The senses are so strong, they'll not allow me to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. They'll not allow me. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to understand Kṛṣṇa, His name, His form, His pastimes, His paraphernalia, so many things. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. How much we have to learn about Him, just imagine. So all these things cannot be understood by these blunt senses engaged in material sense enjoyment. That is not possible. Therefore we have to control the senses. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Our indriyas... We are now habituated to use this indriya for material sense enjoyment. Therefore these indriyas, senses, is not fit for understanding Kṛṣṇa. It has to be purified. The senses, you cannot stop the activities of the senses, but you have to purify. That is recommended. That purification of the senses begins from the tongue. Therefore we have recommended that don't eat meat, don't taste intoxication, don't, and illicit sex. From the tongue, it goes to... Sex is not prohibited, but illicit sex, that is controlled, that is controlled. If one is allowed to have unlimited, unrestricted sex, then he is doomed. Better restrict your sex in one wife, woman (indistinct). That means gradually it will be controlled.

*So we have to follow this. If we are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa consciousness and going back to home, back to Godhead, make our lives successful in this very life, then... Life successful means mukti, to be not entangled again with this material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is success. That after giving up this body... This body means the combination of the so many, twenty*-four elements. So long we'll be entangled within this network of twenty-four elements, it is called conditioned life. And mukti, liberated, means no more entanglement. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpam. We are now entangled in these twenty-four elements, and mukti means we are not entangled. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpam. Because we are entangled, we are thinking otherwise. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," "I have got so many duties." These things. But when one understands that these so-called duties and entanglement of these twenty-four elements of matter, "I do not belong this. I am aloof, I aloof," this understanding is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. At least theoretically if we understand, then our duty changes. Prasannātmā, fixed up. That whatever I am doing now, I am doing with this material, for the benefit of this material, not for my personal benefit. I am not these twenty-four elements. This is called mukti.

*So we have to practice. We are accustomed to this material entanglement. This practice is there. Then gradually we shall be freed from this entanglement. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat*-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That is purification, when we become free from this designation. Then hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. And when you are freed from this... Therefore bhakti actually begins after liberation. Bhakti is not... Nivṛtta-tarṣair-upagīyamānā. Nivṛtta means one who has ceased tṛṣṇa. Tṛṣṇa means aspiration. We have got so many aspirations. So this transcendental life or chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is means for the liberated person. Nivṛtta-tarṣair-upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc-chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt [SB 10.1.4]. This chanting is the medicine for our conditioned stage.

*nivṛtta*-tarṣair-upagīyamānād

*bhavauṣadhāc*-chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt

*ka uttama-śloka*-guṇānuvādāt

virajyati pumān vinā paśughnāt

[SB 10.1.4]



*Paśughnāt, animal killer. Paśughnāt has two meanings. One who is killing himself, he's also paśughnāt. And one who is killing animals, he is also paśughnāt. Therefore meat*-eating is prohibited, that if you remain a killer of animals, then you cannot be purified. That is essential. No meat-eating. So in this way... You cannot stop the activities of the senses. That is not possible. Because I am living being. If the sense activities are stopped, then where is my life? I'm finished. So that cannot be. This is impossible. The Buddha philosophy is stop, nirvāṇa: "Stop the activities of the senses." That is not possible. Stop means you stop material activities. A boy is, when he's child, he is simply doing all nonsense and creating some disturbance. The same boy, when he's engaged in reading and writing, going to school, he's a good boy, Similarly, you cannot stop the activities of your senses, but when you engage your senses in the activities of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection of life.



Thank you very much. (end)



750804SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.51

-

Detroit, August 4, 1975



*Nitāi: "The subtle body endowed with the five knowledge*-acquiring senses, the five working senses, the five objects of sense gratification, and the mind, altogether sixteen parts, which is the effect of the three modes of material nature and is composed of very strong, insurmountable desires, causes the living entity to transmigrate from one body to another within the kingdom of human life, animal life, or higher demigod life. When he gets the body of a demigod he is certainly very jubilant. When he gets the body of a human being he is always in lamentation. When he gets the body of an animal he is always afraid. In this way, in all conditions he is miserable. This miserable condition is called saṁsṛti, or transmigration in material life."



Prabhupāda:



*tad etat ṣoḍaśa*-kalaṁ

*liṅgaṁ śakti*-trayaṁ mahat

dhatte 'nusaṁsṛtiṁ puṁsi

*harṣa-śoka*-bhayārtidām

[SB 6.1.51]



*This is called sāṅkhya*-yoga, to understand the analytical process of this body. In the Bhagavad-gītā you have learned that,



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*So with this combination of sixteen elements, within that there is the soul. He is enwrapped in so many wrappers, mana, buddhi, ahaṅkāra and... Altogether twenty*-four wrappers, and within that wrappers there is the living soul. The modern science, they cannot understand this. They are searching after the active principle or living force within this body, but they have no information. But here, in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, you get the full analysis. Tad etat ṣoḍaśa-kalam. The analysis is that the living entity is enwrapped first all with sixteen wrappers, ṣoḍaśa-kalam. What are those? Now, ten senses: five working senses and five knowledge-gathering senses. We are experience... We are perceiving by using our five knowledge-gathering senses, just like eyes, ear, cakṣu, karṇa, smell, nose. Cakṣu, karṇa, nāsikā, jihvā, tongue, touch, hand... In this way we get knowledge experience. Sometimes we stress on the knowledge experienced by the eyes: "I want to see." But that is not the only source of knowledge. There are many blind men who cannot see, but he has got full knowledge. There are other sources of knowledge. Just like a mango. You see the mango, but you cannot experience the full knowledge unless you use the tongue. Then you can say whether it is good mango or bad mango, not by seeing.



*So these are our knowledge*-gathering senses, and there are working senses, just like hand, leg, the stomach, the rectum, the genital. These are working senses. In this way, ten senses and five sense objects. We have got eyes, so there must be object of seeing. Pañca-tanmātrā, rūpa, rasa. With eyes we can see the form. With tongue we can taste. Rūpa, rasa, śabda. With the ear we can hear the sound. In this way, five sense objects of three, five, means fifteen, and the mind. The mind is the center of directing the senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. The senses are there, sense objects are there, but without mind it cannot work. Therefore the mind is the sixteenth item. And everything is being used by whom? By the soul. Therefore seventeenth. And in this gross body there are five elements and three subtle elements. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. In this way there are twenty-four elements which is covering the twenty-fifth, living entity, and he is packed up in this way.

*Then tad etat ṣoḍaśa*-kalam liṅgam. Liṅgam means the form. Liṅgaṁ śakti-trayaṁ mahat. Just like we have got this microphone, so the machine is made of these elements. That is analyzed. Then how it is working? Śakti-traya. The sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, mahat-tattva, the material elements... In this way the living entity is under the full control of material nature. And everything is coming out swiftly by our desire. These desires are also being generated from the soul, but by the infection of three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So just try to understand how the nature's law is working very finely and immediately. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. And above all these things, the nature's working, there is Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. The prakṛti, nature... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everything is being done. Just like the big airship is floating in the sky, but the pilot is pushing the button, similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation is working, but the button-pusher is Kṛṣṇa. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate. His knowledge is so perfect, and He has made this machine so perfect. A man can make so nice perfect machine, so what to speak about God? So mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10].

*So the basic principle... We are under these laws of material nature only for our desire. That is the basic principle. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we have to change the desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Śūnyam means zero. As soon as we make all other desires... Other means there are two things: Kṛṣṇa and māyā. So this material world means māyā. Māyā means which is not fact. It is an illusion. Just like we dream at night. It is no fact, but it works. Similarly, this material world is called māyā, means it is not factually in existence, but it is working, hallucination. So if we want to be really... Because we are within this entanglement, twenty*-four elements, as we have analyzed, within this, the result is that, being influenced by this māyā or mahat-tattva, who is working with the three modes of material nature, and I am desiring, my basic principle of my material existence is my desire, and as soon as I desire, by the order of Kṛṣṇa, immediately the instruments and facilities are given to me. In this way, dhatte anusaṁsṛtiṁ puṁsi. As I desire, immediately the instrument... This body is instrument. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. (child making noise) (aside:) Stop this child. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. Kṛṣṇa is situated everyone's heart, and as I am desiring, He has given us full freedom, not full freedom, but freedom. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that just like father, mother, gives the child little freedom and it moves here and there, but always looking after-may not catch up any fire, for may not fall down in the water, or some animal may not attack-so similarly, we are desiring and Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities. But if we want to stop this repetition of birth and death and change of different atmosphere, as it is said, harṣa-śoka-bhaya ārti. This material existence means sometimes we are very jubilant: "Oh, I have got this. Now I have got in America, I have got so many cars." Now harṣa, jubilant. Then śoka. And you take birth in some other place, lamentation, scarcity: "This is not. This is not." And bhaya. So there are 8,400,000 species of forms of life, and by this process we are entering into different types of atmosphere and subjected to sometimes harṣa, jubilation, sometimes lamentation, sometimes fear. Even in this life we are undergoing such changes.

*So if one is actually intelligent, then he should consider that "I don't want this lamentation. Why it is forced upon me?" It is forced upon me-on my desire, on my desire. It is not forced by any external thing. It is my desire. I wanted this position, and I got it by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, but when I got it, then again... Because the nature is like that, material nature... Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You can place yourself in any position*-the whole thing is duḥkhālayam; *it is miserable. We are simply changing, that "If I am posted in this position, then I will be happy. If I am posted in this position, then I will..." And we are changing different positions. Harṣa-śoka*-bhayāpaha. But if we want to stop this, if we want to come to our original position... Original position means we are part and parcel of God. So qualitatively the same position... It may be small, but the position is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], eternal life of bliss and knowledge. If we want to come to that, then the process is that we should not any more desire or manufacture some ideas for becoming happy in this material world. This is intelligence.

*Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. You have to make zero all material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam means zero. So zero, that is Buddhist philosophy to make zero, śūnyavādī, to make everything void. No. That cannot be. I cannot make my desires zero. That is not possible because I am living being. I may select what kind of desires I will have. That is intelligence. But desirelessness is not possible. Therefore the next item is that anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. You make your material desires zero, void. "Then? What shall I do next? Shall I become void and finish?" No. Then your real life begins. What is that? Anābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. We have desires, many types of desires, jñāna and karma. Karma platform is foolishness. Just like everywhere they are very busy, karmī, but they do not know what is the aim of life. That is called karma, acting something and suffering again. This is called karma. And jñāna means one who understands that, by analysis, that "These wrappers, material wrappers, these fifteen, five, five, five-five sense organs, five object of sense enjoyment*-in this way twenty-four wrappers, so how I am to get out of these wrappings?" That is intelligence. That is jñānī. But a jñānī does not know that "I get out from this entanglement. Then where I stay?" That they do not know. So that information is given by Kṛṣṇa, that "Give up this, and take up Me," negative and positive, both. Sarva-dharmān parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up this nonsense desires." Then? What to do? Now, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: "Come to Me, under Me." This is required. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is not varietyless, that "I surrender unto You; *then business finished." No. Śaraṇaṁ vraja means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam: [Cc. Madhya 19.167] what Kṛṣṇa says, you do that. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was not willing to fight, but when he listened Bhagavad*-gītā from Kṛṣṇa, then he agreed to fight.

*So our first business is that if we want to stop this repetition of birth and death*-and sometimes we are very happy, sometimes we are very unhappy, sometimes we are in fearfulness, sometimes in so many other calamities-then our first business is that we shall stop all these material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. To stop means... The desire cannot be stopped. Because we are living entities, life, we are not dead stone, that desires will be stopped. No. Desires are to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Desires to purified... Everyone is working under some impure consciousness, just like nationalism: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am German." This desire is polluted, because I am spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. What is the benefit, my identifying with America or India or...? This is called purification of the desire. Everyone is working under national, and they are fighting with one another because the desire is impure.

*So the problem, the whole problem of the material world, can be solved only when we purify our desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇā [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Ānukūla, what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is not dead. Therefore ānukūlyena. What Kṛṣṇa says, we have to do that. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna to fight. So we have to meet the situation as Kṛṣṇa desired by. Sometimes He may say, "You sit down." So we have to carry out only. The Kṛṣṇa is not dead. He can give us varieties of order, and our position is that we shall simply carry out the order. That is life. Otherwise we are under the clutches of māyā, or material nature. Prakteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. We are thinking that "I am the lord of everything." That is not the fact. The fact is that we have to work under somebody. That is our real position. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We are workers. We are not enjoyer. But unfortunately we are trying to take the position of enjoyer. That is māyā. That is māyā. And if we agree to work under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, then our original life is revived. That is wanted. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are trying to educate people to change the consciousness. We have got so many desires under different consciousness. So one desire, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," this is called mukti, as soon as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is mukti. If we give up all other desires and agree to accept Kṛṣṇa's desires, that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, "You surrender unto Me," that is mukti; *that is liberation. Otherwise, under the influence of these twenty*-four elements and the material nature and the three guṇas, infection, dhatte anusaṁsṛtiṁ puṁsi harṣa-śoka-bhayārtidām, you go on changing any body. The subject matter is very difficult, but we have to learn it from śāstra what is our position. Otherwise, to realize these things, it is not very easy. But if we accept the direction of the śāstra, that this is our position We cannot know what is my disease, but if I go to a doctor, physician, he can feel the pulse and he can recommend, "This is your disease. You do like this."

*So if we want to avoid the tiresome, troublesome, miserable condition of this material world, then we have to accept the direction given in the śāstras. But we are so dull, we cannot even understand what is the miserable condition of our life. [break] ...dead stone life or animal life. The animal cannot understand. But there is possibility. Sometimes when the miserable condition is very acute, we feel: "How to get out of it?" That is intelligence. But if we take the direction of the śāstras*-sādhu guru śāstra vākya; guru mukha padma vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā kariya mane āśā **, then there is possibility of getting out of these clutches, entanglement, and become free again and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



750805SB.DET

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.52

-

Detroit, August 5, 1975



Nitāi: "The foolish embodied living entity, inadept at controlling his senses and mind, although he does not desire to, he is forced to act by the different influences of the modes of material nature. He is just like the silkworm, who by the thread created from his own saliva creates a cocoon and becomes encaged in it without any possibility of getting out. The living entity has similarly engaged himself in a network of his own different fruitive activities and cannot find a way to get out of it. In that condition, he is always bewildered and repeatedly dies."



Prabhupāda:



*dehy ajño 'jita-ṣaḍ*-vargo

necchan karmāṇi kāryate

kośakāra ivātmānaṁ

karmaṇācchādya muhyati

[SB 6.1.52]



*This is the position of all of us living entities. Because we cannot control the mind and the senses, especially karmendriya, the eyes, the ear, the tongue, the touch, the udara upastha... Pāṇi, pāda, pāyu, udara, upastha, these five karmendriya Pāṇi means hand, pāyu means rectum, and pāda means leg. Udara means belly, and upastha means genital. And these are karmendriya, and mind So mind dictates, "Oh, let me see this beautiful thing"*-immediately eyes act. "Let me hear this sweet song"-immediately ear is engaged. So of all, the jihvā, the tongue, is very strong. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. Amongst all the senses, the tongue, taste, it is very strong. In your country especially, for the tongue so many advertisement: this wine, that wine, varieties of cigarettes, restaurants, roasted beef, so many things, just attracting the tongue, "Please come here. Please come here and be entangled." This advertisement. So one has to control the tongue. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. This is very secret science that you have to clear out your path of liberation by controlling the tongue. Then other things will be controlled, the straight line: tongue, then belly, then genital. Therefore in our society we have restricted the tongue: "Don't eat meat. Don't take intoxication." And then, the straight line: "No free use of the genital, illicit sex." These things are required if you want to be free from this material entanglement. This is called tapasya.



*Human life is meant for tapasya, not to live like cats and dogs and hogs. That is not human life. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This body, all bodies, are there in the darkness. Therefore it is said, dehy ajñaḥ. The lower animals, they are ajñaḥ. They cannot control. But human body is meant for controlling. Na ayaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means "in the human society." Na ayaṁ deha. Everyone has got body. Cats and dogs, they have got body. The trees also have body. The worms have body. All living entity, anyone who has come into this material world, under different body or different dress, they are suffering in this material world. Therefore the śāstra is meant for the human being so that he can understand his awkward position. So everywhere this is advised, ayaṁ deha: "You had many other bodies in your past lives' evolution. Now, this body," ayaṁ deha, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke, "one who has got this human form of body," nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām [SB 5.5.1], "don't engage yourself for simply for eating, sleeping, in very hard labor." Just like at the present moment huge, big, big industries, karma It is called ugra-karma. Ugra-karma means ferocious activities. Anyone who has gone into the factories, it is ferocious activities, unnecessarily economic development. So this is kaṣṭān, so much laboring. Even the animals, they do not undergo so much laboring. And a human being is engaged in so much laboring? Kaṣṭān kāmān. And what for, laboring, working? Now, kāmān, to sense gratify, that's all. This is the highest state. Whole day and night, night shift, day shift, and-who was telling? Upendra*-that our next door neighbor, he wanted to sleep up to ten o'clock. So when they were, I mean to say, sweeping the floor he became disturbed because last night he had drunk and sense gratification, now, little disturbance, he cannot sleep. You are creating in this way entanglement, ajñaḥ, dehy ajñaḥ, on account of his ignorance. And this education system is keeping him more and more in ignorance. Mūḍha.

*So this principle they do not know, that this human life, actually the desire is like that, that "Let me earn some money. Then I shall go in a village or in a secluded place I shall live very peacefully." And those who have got money, at the weekend they go out for peaceful living. So that is the tendency, not to work hard, but live peacefully. That can be done. Everyone can do that, provided he lives in the village, he lives in the village and produces his own food, little labor, vegetable, food grains. Anyone can produce. This is human civilization. Therefore... Not that all, everyone has to do. The third class... First*-class men, they should cultivate knowledge to guide the human society, brāhmaṇa. Śama dama titikṣa... [Bg. 18.42]. They should learn, ideal men. Under their advice... Brāhmaṇa is considered to be the guru of other sections: kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone can live very peacefully without any hard labor. What is this civilization? For getting foodstuff one has to go hundred miles away from home, daily passengers. And some of them are going in the foreign countries also. Recently there was news that in Africa, Uganda, that, the President Amin, he asked some very respectable English gentleman to carry his palanquin just to insult them. But the Englishmen, now they are in a precarious condition. The British Empire is now finished. Now they had to carry this man. And under protest they could not go away because they have got business. So why one should go so far distance? Everyone can produce his foodstuff at home. Nature's arrangement is so nice. If not, little trade. So it is not meant for so much hard labor. Śāstra says, "This kind of laboring hard simply for satisfaction of senses is the business of the hog and pig. It is not the business of the human being." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1].

*So human society, they should rectify their mode of civilization by taking this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Then they will be happy. Otherwise, if they keep themself in ignorance, ajñaḥ, dehy ajñaḥ, then ajita-ṣaḍ*-varga: he will never be able to control the senses. The yoga system, haṭha-yoga system, is meant for this class of rascals, ajita. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Real meaning of yoga means controlling the senses. So because everyone is ajita-ṣaḍ-varga-ajita means not conquered-so those who are too much addicted in the bodily concept of life, for them this haṭha-yoga is prescribed. The purpose is to control the senses, not that to reduce fat or something else. No. Real purpose is yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ because unless we control the senses, we remain in ignorance, blind, and go on. Ajita-ṣaḍ-vargo necchan. Necchan. Na icchan. If we do not try, then even though I do not want to do something, even I... On the cigarette package there is, that "It is not good for health." So I do not like that my health should be ruined, but necchan, I am compelled to smoke. This is our position. It is written, warning there. Government has written. What is the written there?

Satsvarūpa: "The surgeon general has determined that smoking may be hazardous to your health."



Prabhupāda: "May be." Not assured. (laughter) Therefore they take it, "may not be." But we don't say "may be." We say "No intoxication," because it is actually harmful to the health and in every respect. We see so many places in airplane, "No smoking. No smoking." But the rascal will not stop that... Nobody can smoke, but allowed, "Now you can smoke." They say also. First of all write, "No smoking," then, as soon as the plane is running, they say, "Now you can smoke." So this is going on. This is education. This is education. And blind, simply blind rascals. I always say that, the strong word, rascal, because blind, ajñaḥ, anicchan. They hear that smoking is not good, "determined," but as soon as the cigarette packet is there, "Give me a cigarette." Necchan. This is called tapasya, that you have to beat your mind with shoes at least twice. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "When you get up, your first business is to beat the mind with shoes. And when you go to bed, you have to beat the mind with broomstick." (laughter) Then you will be able to control the mind.



So all catastrophes are happening on account of this rascal mind. Mind is not rascal; *I am rascal. I am using my mind in a different way. So this can be stopped. You can control the mind if you place your mind always at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is possible. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he practiced it. He was very responsible emperor of the world. He had many responsible duties, but he was a great devotee. How? This is the process, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18], always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ. When the mind is controlled, if you fix up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then this māyā cannot touch your mind. Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, nāhi tāhāṅ māyāra adhikāra. Māyā andhakāra.

*kṛṣṇa sūrya*-sama; māyā andhakāra,

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra

[Cc. Madhya 22.31]



*Kṛṣṇa sūrya*-sama. Kṛṣṇa is just like sun. If you want that "In the sunshine or in the sun globe I shall inject darkness," it is not possible. It will be a failure. Sun is so bright that even a big darkness cannot enter. At night it is big darkness, but sun is so strong that as soon as there is glimpse of the sun, immediately whole darkness gone. You haven't got to drive the darkness by separate endeavor. Simply await for the sun rising. Immediately finish. So māyā is darkness. So if you bring Kṛṣṇa within your heart, all māyā will be finished. No more māyā. This is the process. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Māyā can act only when there is no Kṛṣṇa. So therefore Gosvāmī, ṣaḍ-gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, advises, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. Somehow or other, you fix up your mind on Kṛṣṇa.



*So when I started this movement, somehow or other, I tried to fix up the mind of these boys in Kṛṣṇa. In the beginning I never said that "You have to do this. You have to do that." But somehow or other, they are very nice boys, so they fixed up their mind in Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa*-the same thing. Therefore we... Our process is to chant, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31], chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always. Then the mind becomes... Chant and hear. Yena tena prakāreṇa. Then everything will be complete. It is so... As we are fallen at the present moment in this age, the remedy is also very effective. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya nitya-muktaḥ paraṁ vrajet. This is the special advantage of this Kali-yuga, because people are so fallen that it is very difficult to raise them to the standard of spiritual understanding by the prescribed method. Prescribed method means tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena niyamena tyāgena [SB 6.1.13]. It is very difficult. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us His blessings, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31].

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



That's a fact. So if we want to come to the light... Because our qualification is, not only in this age, any living being who has accepted this material body, he is ajñaḥ; *he is a rascal. He is a rascal, in ignorance, and he cannot control the senses. This is his qualification. Dehy ajño ajita-ṣaḍ*-vargo. And on account of this ignorance and being unable to control the senses, then he unwillingly, he is being forced by nature to act sinful activities, unwillingly. Necchan. Necchan means unwilling. He doesn't like it. Just like even a thief: he is practiced to steal, so he knows that "I will be arrested again." He has had experience. He knows that "I will be again arrested, and I will go again to the jail, and will suffer there." But he is still forced to commit stealing again. A man suffering from venereal disease, he goes to the doctor, injection, so much painful. Still, he acts the same way. Necchan. Practice. "Habit is the..." What is called? "Second nature." So practice.



*So necchan karmāṇi kāryate. And as soon as you act, immediately the reaction is there. That you cannot avoid. If you have touched fire, it must burn. The action is touching fire, and the result is burning. So necchan. We do not know. We are ignorance. We are committing so many abominable things, and we are becoming entangled like that silkworm. He is making a bag without knowledge, and gradually he becomes entangled within this and dies. That is our position. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. We entangle ourself in a different activities and create another result, and according to the result... Because it is infection... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. We are getting different types of body. Why? The cause, kāraṇaṁ, guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. In ignorance... Just like we are infecting different types of disease*-we have to suffer-similarly, we, under ignorance we are infecting the modes of material nature and different types of bodies. Today I am Indian or American, and tomorrow I may be a cat, a dog. That these people, they do not know. Ajñaḥ. These rascals, they do not know. At least one should know that "I am going to die." That's a fact, inevitable. You may be very intelligent, but Kṛṣṇa says, "You don't like Me. All right, I shall come to you as death. Then you will understand. And at that time I shall take away whatever you have accumulated." Mṛtyu aham. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I come as death and take away everything, whatever you have earned or collected in this life." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Sarva-hara: "I will take. I will take all: your bank balance, your skyscraper building, your nice family. Your everything will be finished. I will take it away." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham. So after death I may be very proud of my intelligence and power and talking, completely under the laws of material nature. Then nature... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], by superior supervision, as you have acted, jantur deha upapatti, then you will have to accept one body.

So in this way, life after life, we are changing the body. In this planet, in other planet, in this variety, in that variety, we are wandering. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru kṛṣṇa kṛpa pāya bhakti*-latā-bīja



In this way we are wandering, life after life. But somehow or other, if he becomes fortunate, fortunate Unless one becomes fortunate, one cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not possible. So we are trying to make this fallen soul fortunate. Be fortunate and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti*-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*By Kṛṣṇa's mercy, by guru's mercy, both... Don't try to take mercy of one. Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti*-latā-bīja. By guru's mercy one gets Kṛṣṇa. And kṛṣṇa sei tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāro. To approach a guru means just to beg from him Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa sei tomāra. Because Kṛṣṇa is devotee's Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the master, but who can control Kṛṣṇa? His devotee. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller, but He is controlled by devotee. That is, Kṛṣṇa is bhakti-vatsala. Just like a big father, a high-court judge and There is a story that the Prime Minister Gladstone, somebody came to see him. And the Mr. Gladstone informed that "Wait. I am busy." So he was waiting for hours, then he became inquisitive: "What this gentleman is doing?" So he wanted to see within that He had become a horse, and taking his child on the backside. That business he was doing. You see? The prime minister, he is controlling the British Empire, but he is controlled by a child out of affection. This is called affection.



So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*He's the supreme controller, but He is controlled by His devotee, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. He is controlled. So it is not to be easily understood what is the pastimes between... But Kṛṣṇa is willingly agreed to be controlled by His devotee. That is Kṛṣṇa's nature. Just like mother Yaśodā. Mother Yaśodā is controlling Kṛṣṇa, binding Him: "You are very naughty? I will bind you." Mother Yaśodā has a stick, and Kṛṣṇa is crying. Kṛṣṇa is crying. These things you study. It is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Kunti's prayer, how she is appreciating that "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are the Supreme. But when under the stick of mother Yaśodā you are crying, that scene I want to see." So Kṛṣṇa is so bhakta-vatsala that He is the supreme controller. But a devotee like mother Yaśodā, a devotee like Rādhārāṇī, devotees like gopīs, devotees like the cowherds boy, they can control Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to take you there. The foolish persons, they are being deviated. They do not know what is the value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They are trying to give the human society the topmost benefit, position. They don't want to become one with God, but they are giving the right to control God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What is the use of becoming one with God? Nobody can become. But Kṛṣṇa is willing to be controlled by the devotee. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So from this position, ajño ajita-ṣaḍ*-varga, forced to work by the spell of material energy, from this rotten condition of life, we are trying to raise him to the platform where he can control Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





750811SB.PAR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.55

-

Paris, August 11, 1975



Prabhupāda: (leads chanting line by line:)



*eṣa prakṛti*-saṅgena

puruṣasya viparyayaḥ

āsīt sa eva na cirād

*īśa*-saṅgād vilīyate

[SB 6.1.55]



*Hm. In the previous verse it has been discussed, na hi kaścit kṣaṇam api jātu tiṣṭhaty akarma*-kṛt. Nobody can... (child making sounds) Just like this child. He wants to do something. (laughter) He does not know that he is doing something nonsense. (devotee translates throughout) Similarly, the child's father also, he wants to do something although it is nonsense. Therefore, here it is mentioned, na hi kaścit, "Anyone," kṣaṇam api, "even for a moment," na hi kaścit kṣaṇam api jātu tiṣṭhaty akarma, "he must do something." This is the tendency. How? Kāryate hy avaśaḥ. Avaśaḥ means being forced. He has no control. He must do something and he has no control over it. So why no control? No control means he is controlled by somebody else. He is not in his own control. And what is that controller? Guṇaiḥ svābhāvikair balāt. He has infected some type of material modes of nature and he has to act accordingly. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. The similar verse is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27].



*So we are under the control of the modes of material nature. Now, the next verse says, eṣa prakṛti*-saṅgena. Eṣa means all these living entities. In this way, on account of association with this material nature... Prakṛti-saṅgena puruṣasya viparyayaḥ. Puruṣasya means the living entities; *viparyayaḥ, entanglement. Āsīt: "In this way he is involved." Sa eva na cirād īśa*-saṅgād vilīyate. So he is involved in this way, but if he associates with Īśa, the Supreme Lord, then na cirād, very soon, all these things, entanglement, can be finished. This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. One who is entangled with these modes of material nature, it is very difficult to come out of it. But mām eva ye prapadyante: "Anyone who takes My shelter, he can get out." And practically you have got all experience that our regulative principle is very difficult to give it up, but those who have become devotee, they have easily given up. That is also confirmed in another place, vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ. If we engage ourself in devotional service of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, janaty āśu vairāgyam, then very soon he become detached to these material activities. Vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam [SB 1.2.7]. These two things required: knowledge and detachment. Knowledge means that "I am not this body," and detachment means "I am not this body; therefore I have nothing to do with this material world." [break]

*...of Yamarāja, came to take him to Yamarāja. In the meantime, because he uttered the name of Nārāyaṇa, the order*-carriers of Nārāyaṇa also came there. So while the Yamadūtas were dragging this Ajāmila to take him to Yamarāja, the Nārāyaṇa-dūtas warned, "Don't touch him." So Yamadūtas complained that "This man was very sinful. We must take him to Yamarāja." But the Nārāyaṇa-dūtas said, "No, you cannot take because he has uttered the holy name of Nārāyaṇa." So the discussion was going on, "Now who will take him." In the meantime the Nārāyaṇa-dutas challenged the Yamadūtas that "Do you know the principles of religion?" And so they were explaining.

*Now, these Yamadūtas explained about the past life of Ajāmila. His past life is described in this way, ayaṁ hi śruta*-sampannaḥ: "This man, Ajāmila, was formerly, was a very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa." Śruta. Śruta means Vedic knowledge, and sampannaḥ means accomplished. So ayaṁ hi śruta-sampannaḥ śīla-vṛtta-guṇālayaḥ. "And very well behaved, properly situated in his position," dhṛta-vrata, "and avowedly following the regulative principles." So he was learned, he was well-behaved, and he was avowedly, strictly following the regulative principles. Mṛduḥ. Mṛdu means very gentle. Dāntaḥ: he had control over his senses. Satya-vāṅ: he was very truthful. Mantra vit śuciḥ: and he knew all the Vedic mantras and he was very clean. Then gurv-agny-atithi-vṛddhānām. Guru, spiritual master; agni, sacrificial fire; vṛddhā, aged person; and atithi... Atithi means guest without invitation. This is the Vedic culture, that these men should be well received. Guru means spiritual master; agni, fire; *atithi... Atithi. Atithi means without any fixed*-up invitation if somebody comes at your place. And old men, they should be respectful. Not very long ago, when we were young men, say thirty years old, that time we have seen that a young man would not smoke before an old man. This was the etiquette. Now they have all forgotten this cultural civilization. They have no respect for old men. And the time is coming when old men will be killed as mercy?

*Brahmānanda: Mercy*-killing.



*Prabhupāda: Mercy*-killing. Sarva-bhūta-suhṛdam. Not only these particular persons, but he was friendly to all living entities, sarva-bhūta-suhṛdam. Sādhu, very honest devotee, sādhu. And mita-vāg: did not speak more than required. This is also good qualification: don't talk nonsense. Unless you are required to speak, don't speak. This is also another good feature. Mita-vāg anasūyakaḥ: and not envious to anyone. These were his qualification when he was young man. Up to the age of, say, twenty, he was like this.



*Ekadāsau vanaṁ yātaḥ pitṛ*-sandeśa-kṛd dvijaḥ. Once upon a time, he was passing through the forest to collect flowers, dry wood, by the order of his father for performing sacrifices, worshiping the Deity. He asked his son, "Please collect all these things and bring it." Ekadāsau vanaṁ yātaḥ pitṛ-sandeśa-kṛd dvijaḥ. He is explained as dvija. Dvija means twice-born. So this dvija He was a brāhmaṇa, dvija. He was initiated for the second time, dvija. So about his going to the forest for collecting all these things he was going. Yes. Ādāya tata āvṛttaḥ phala-puṣpa-samit-kuśān. In this way he collected all the things required for sacrifice, yajña. Sacrifice, yajña is It doesn't require any money. You can collect. Just like flowers you can collect, leaves you can collect, kuśa, a kind of grass, you can collect, and nobody will object. Even you collect from a nice garden nobody will object. So while he was coming back home with all these things, what happened? Dadarśa kāminaṁ kañcic chūdraṁ saha bhujiṣyayā. Kāma, a lusty ś\ udra. There are four classes-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So he saw one lusty śūdra, fourth class. Dadarśa kāminaṁ kañcic chūdraṁ saha bhujiṣyayā. What he saw? That this śūdra was embracing another śūdrāṇī, woman śūdra. So nowadays it has become a fashion-young man is kissing another young woman on the street. So this embracing of young man and young woman on the public street was strictly prohibited, especially for the higher castes. But the śūdras, the lower class, fourth-class men, they used to do such things sometimes, not always. And what was their position? Pitvā ca madhu maireyaṁ madāghūrṇita-netrayā. They were not only embracing but they were drunken. And their eyes were rolling in a different way. Mattayā, and being mad, almost mad, mattayā, or intoxicated, viślathan nīvyā vyapetaṁ nirapatrapam, the dress of both of them were loose and they did not care for it. So in this posture-krīḍantam, doing their own business; anugāyantam, singing; hasantam, laughing, cheering, hasantam; *anayāntike, in a place in the forest*-so he saw, this young man. So after seeing that, he also become inclined, lusty, and that will be explained next, that he became a victim of this lusty woman and then he lost his good character and left home and his young wife, coming of very respectable family. He forgot everything. Then, in association with this prostitute, he gradually became degenerated, degraded. He became a thief. He became a rogue. He became a cheater. That will be explained later on.

The purport is: human life is not meant for these things. Human life is meant for being elevated to the highest platform of good character and controlling the senses, controlling the mind, remain very clean. Then you can make progress and your life can become successful. So because they are not accustomed already to follow this, therefore so many rascals and dangerous yogis are advertising that "There is no need of control. You can join this yoga system and give me money. I shall give you mantra, and you become God." Be careful of these dogs.

Thank you very much. (end)



750813SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.55

-

London, August 13, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*eṣa prakṛti*-saṅgena

puruṣasya viparyayaḥ

āsīt sa eva na cirād

*īśa*-saṅgād vilīyate

[SB 6.1.55]



Viparyaya, in the reverse condition, unfavorable condition... So... (aside:) Stop.



Haṁsadūta: The children should go out.



Prabhupāda: Puruṣa. Puruṣa means enjoyer, and prakṛti means enjoyed, or, in simple word, puruṣa means male, and prakṛti means female. So this material world is called prakṛti, and the living entities who are struggling in this material world to enjoy it, they are called puruṣa. Of course, puruṣa is Kṛṣṇa only. Puruṣa means enjoyer. Nobody is enjoyer; *therefore nobody is puruṣa. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā, the living entities have been described also as prakṛti-apareyam itas tv bhinnāṁ me prakṛti..., apareyam itas tv bhinnāṁ me prakṛtiṁ parā-superior prakṛti, not puruṣa. But because we are conditioned, we are under illusion. Although we are prakṛti, we are thinking that we are puruṣa. But actually we are not puruṣa. We are also prakṛti. So this living entity, on the false understanding of becoming a puruṣa, they have come to this material world to enjoy the material nature.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*Just like a male and female. That movement is very strong now in America. The female wants to become male, or equal rights. This is māyā. How woman can become in equal with man? Of course, we are not going to study the social welfare activities or something like that, but puruṣa and prakṛti, they are different. Purusa means enjoyer, and prakṛti means enjoyed. So here the prakṛti, this material nature*-earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, and ego, egotism-these are eight material things. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā prakṛtiṁ me aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. These are eight kinds of material energy. Material energy is one, mahat-tattva, but they have been divided. Mahat-tattva, when it is separated... Just like some philosopher says, "There was a chunk, and it became broken, and the creation took place." This can be applicable... The mahat-tattva, the total material energy, by, when the three guṇas break them, they become twenty-four elements, five material, and three material, subtle, and the ten senses, and the ten object of senses. In this way twenty-four elements is become.



*So we living entities, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like fire and the small fragments of fire, sparks, our position is like that. Or the sun and the small particles of shining elements combined together becomes the sunshine. The sunshine which we daily see, it is not a homogeneous mixture. There is molecules, very small, shining particle. So we are like that, a very small... As there are atoms, material atoms*-nobody can count-similarly, we are atomic sparks of God. How many we are, there is no count. Asaṅkhyā. Asaṅkhyā means we cannot count. So many living entities. So we are very small particle, and we have come here in this material world. Just like the Europeans especially, they go to other countries for colonizing to use the material resources for their sense gratification. The America was discovered, and the Europeans went there. The idea was to go there and... Now they are trying to go to the moon planet to find out if there is any convenience. This is the tendency of the conditioned soul. So they have come to this material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. Means puruṣa is bhokta.

*Bhoktā. Kṛṣṇa is actually bhoktā. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām [Bg. 5.29]. So we are imitating Kṛṣṇa. This is our position. Everyone is trying to become Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādīs, although they have undergone penances, austerities*-very strictly they follow the principles of spiritual life-but because they are under māyā, at the end they are thinking that "I am God, Purusa," the same disease, puruṣa. Purusa means bhoktā. That "I am Kṛṣṇa..." Bhoktāraṁ yajña... And even after advancing so much by austerities, penances, following regulative principle, the māyā is so strong that still, he is under this impression that "I am puruṣa." Not only ordinary puruṣa, but the Supreme Puruṣa, as Kṛṣṇa is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam śāśvata: [Bg. 10.12] "You are puruṣa." So māyā is so strong that after being kicked so many lives, life after life, still he is thinking, "I am puruṣa. I am enjoyer." This is the disease.

*Therefore here it is said that eṣa prakṛti*-saṅgena puruṣasya viparyayaḥ. His material life begun from this conception, that "I am puruṣa. I am enjoyer." And because he cannot give up this idea that "I am enjoyer," life after life he is viparyayaḥ, reverse condition. Reverse condition means... Because the living entity is part and parcel of God and God is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], so we are also sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, a small sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, but our position is prakṛti, not puruṣa. Both of them... Just like Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, They are of the same quality. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. They are one, but still, Rādhā is prakṛti, and Kṛṣṇa is puruṣa. Similarly, we are, although part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, but we are prakṛti, and Kṛṣṇa is puruṣa. So by falsely, when we think of becoming puruṣa, this is called māyā or viparyayaḥ. That is stated here. Evaṁ prakṛti-saṅgena puruṣasya viparyayaḥ. Viparyayaḥ means he is meant for actually enjoying with the puruṣa. When the puruṣa and prakṛti, male and female, enjoy, they enjoy, they get the same pleasure, but one is puruṣa; *one is prakṛti. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is puruṣa, and we are prakṛti. If we enjoy with Kṛṣṇa, then the ānanda, sac*-cid-ānanda, is there. That we have forgotten. We want to be puruṣa. So some way or other, this condition has come into existence, a false conception of becoming puruṣa, enjoyer. Then what is the result? The result is that we are trying to be enjoyer life after life, but we are being enjoyed; we are not enjoyer. We are simply struggling to become enjoyer. This is our position.

*So how you can stop this struggling and come to your original position? That is stated here. Sa eva na cirād īśa*-saṅgād vilīyate. This false conception of life, that "I am puruṣa," it can be vanquished completely. How? Īśa-saṅga, by association with God, Īśa. Īśa means the supreme controller. Īśa-saṅga. "So where is Īśa? I cannot see Īśa. I cannot see... Even Kṛṣṇa is Īśa, the Supreme, but I cannot see Him." Now, Kṛṣṇa is there. You are blind. Why don't you see Him? Therefore you cannot see. So you have to open your eyes, not close. That is the business of guru. The guru opens the eyes.

*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*So how Kṛṣṇa opens the eyes? By jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Just like in the darkness we cannot see anything. But if there is matches or candle, if the candle is ignited, then we can see. Similarly, guru's business is to open the eyes. To open the eyes means to give him knowledge that "You are not puruṣa. You are prakṛti. Change your views." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one is in his original position that "I am not bhoktā. Kṛṣṇa is bhoktā. We are helping*-beings for enjoyment of Kṛṣṇa. This is our actual position," this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore īśa-saṅgāt, "by association with Bhagavān." So in this condition when I am so much fallen, how I can associate with Kṛṣṇa? So that is īśa-saṅgāt. Īśa is absolute. Everything has emanated from Isa, God. So in that way everything is Īśa. There is nothing but Īśa, but we haven't got the eyes to see. Antar-bahir-avasthitaḥ. Kunti said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are situated outside and inside. Still, we are so rascal, we cannot see You." We cannot see You. How we can see? Īśa-saṅgāt, association. Saṅgāt sanjāyate kāmaḥ.



*So with whom associate? Now, Īśa. These are... Īśa means His name, His form, His attributes, His, so many things. You see? Nāma, rūpa, rasa*-everything is Īśa. So this temple means to give chance to people for associating with Īśa, with Kṛṣṇa. So therefore, according to Vedic civilization, everyone is advised to go to the temple. Still people are going to the church, to the temple, to the mosque, to the synagogue. Why? Īśa-saṅgāt, īśa-saṅgāt, just to associate with God. That is the purpose. So if you actually search after Īśa, Kṛṣṇa, or God, you can get it. There is arrangement. Just like this temple. This temple, if you come, if you make association with this temple, immediately you will be benefited by hearing the glories of the Lord this, every subject matter pertaining to God. We are reading Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā. That is also Īśa. Because these are the words of Īśa, therefore, Īśa being absolute, there is no difference between His words and Him. Kṛṣṇa, five thousand years ago He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. That Bhagavad-gītā is the same Bhagavad-gītā which He spoke five thousand years ago, and it is not different from Kṛṣṇa because Kṛṣṇa is absolute. Whatever, His words, His form, His name, His quality, everything, His temple, His activities, His books-everything Īśa.

*So if we associate with all these things, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], hearing and chanting about Viṣṇu, then this misconception of life, that "I am puruṣa," will vanquish. Then you become liberated. Īśa*-saṅgād vilīyate. So take chance of this īśa-saṅga very vigorously. Tivreṇa bhakti-yogena. That is recommended. Anyone who is... There are two classes of men. One class of men, they are trying to enjoy this material world. Another class of men, they are rejecting-brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā-Māyāvādī. They say, "We have no use for this material world." And the karmīs... Those who are rejecting, they are jñānis. And those who are karmīs, they want more material enjoyment, more money, more money, more assets. The two classes of men. But a devotee is neither this class or that class. A devotee is neither karmī nor jñāni. Therefore bhakti means jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. If one is involved in jñāna and karma he cannot become bhakta.

*Bhakta means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. The bhakta has nothing to do with this jñāna and karma. Jñāna means to understand. So you understand simply that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Then your jñāna is full. Your knowledge is full. These two words, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and I am Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel," if we realize these things only, then our jñāna, our knowledge, is perfect. And then, as soon as knowledge is perfect, then next is vairāgya. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā [SB 1.2.12]. Two things required. But if you remain in the jñāna platform, do not come to the actual spiritual platform, then śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. It is simply waste of... Jñāna means to have knowledge. What knowledge? This knowledge, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, bhoktā, puruṣa, and we are just part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa to fulfill the desire of Kṛṣṇa." This is jñāna. Just like the hand is part and parcel of my body, so what is the duty of this hand? The duty is to fulfill the desire of the person. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Or only business is to fulfill the desire of Kṛṣṇa, not to fulfill our desire. That is... That is not bhakti. That is jñāna or karma. But fulfill the desire of Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This is first-class bhakti.

*So this philosophy is spoken by the Yamadūta that one has become conditioned on this false conception of life, that "I am puruṣa," but this misconception can be vanquished. It is not very easy to vanquish, but it can be. How? Īśa-saṅga. Associate with Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and you will be able to give up this false misconception of life. The whole world, material world, is going on. You can see any city, any big town you go, or even in the village in these countries. Everyone, from the morning to night, they are simply trying how to enjoy the material world: "How to enjoy? How to enjoy?" This is called karma-jñāna. When they are fed up, then "the grapes are sour." They give up: brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But that will not stay. If you... Even if you give up for the time being, that jagat mithyā-"We have no business with the jagat"*-it may be sentimentally enduring for some time, but because you are not purified, therefore Bhāgavata says, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Simply to understand that "I am not this material body, so I have nothing to do with this body, and I am spirit soul," simply this much knowledge is not perfect.

*Therefore, sometimes the Māyāvādīs, they think, "Now we have understood that I am not this body. I have nothing to do with the material world. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: I am Brahman," but they do not understand the Supreme Brahman, Parabrahman, Kṛṣṇa. They do not understand. Therefore śāstra says, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninaḥ. Because they have understood what is the difference between spirit and matter, that knowledge is not perfect. He aravindākṣa. Anye. They are thinking, "Now we have understood what is spirit and what... Therefore we are liberated. We are the... Aham. So 'ham: I have become the same." So for them the śāstra says, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād [SB 10.2.32]. Tvayy means "unto You, Kṛṣṇa." They have not understood yet what is Kṛṣṇa, the Puruṣa, the Supreme Puruṣa. Tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Therefore their intelligence is not yet clear. Simply understanding that "I am not this material body; I am spirit soul," is not sufficient because unless you come to the point to understand Kṛṣṇa, this will not stand.

*Therefore many sannyāsīs, they give up the brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. I mean to... Māyāvādī sannyāsī. Again they fall down in this mithyā jagat. They come for political work, they come for social work, daridra*-nārāyaṇa-seva and this and that. That's all. Because they are not pure. If jagat is mithyā, why you again so much anxious for serving the jagat? This misconception is going on. Everyone asks us that, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why not serve the suffering humanity?" They say always. And what you can do? You are... Simply like a madman you are thinking that you can serve the humanity. You cannot serve the humanity. You have no such power. What you can do? The example was... I was giving that if you want to give help a suffering in disease man, and bring some nice doctor, medical man to help him and bring some nice medicine, that is good work, but does it mean that it is guaranteed that he will be cured? No. Therefore you cannot do anything. You may think like that. Or you may act like that. But unless the Supreme Person sanctions, you cannot do anything. One is sure to suffer the material pangs of life. Nobody can stop it. So therefore we should not try. It will be automatically tried.

*Just like we are distributing prasādam. Not that because he is poor man and we are giving prasāda, no. This is not our idea. To our eyes, the so*-called poor man and rich man, they are all suffering, not that the simply poor man suffering and the rich man is not suffering. Therefore we give them prasādam or īśa-saṅga. That prasādam is also Īśa. The prasādam accepted by Kṛṣṇa, offered to Kṛṣṇa, is also Kṛṣṇa. So if we give prasādam, then he is getting the opportunity of associating with Kṛṣṇa. This is our idea. But people very much appreciate poor-feeding. So that, you can take it, that. But everyone is poor. Who is rich? Unless one has got knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, he is poor. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So-called knowledge has no value. Therefore a jñānavān, a man of knowledge, after many, many births he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. So this is the process. Īśa-saṅgāt. So this prasāda distribution means giving chance to the people, those who are poor in knowledge, to awaken their Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our policy. Otherwise we cannot do any good to any others.

Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar... [Bg. 3.27]. Everyone is going on under the stringent laws of material nature. We cannot help. The same example: If a man is diseased, you can try to bring to him nice physician, nice medicine, but that is not guarantee that he will be cured. That depends on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate, I mean to say, beneficiary, or benevolent. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate bene... If He likes, He can. So take Kṛṣṇa's shelter, and whatever He likes, accept that. This is full surrender. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura-

mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora,

*arpilūn tuwā pade nanda*-kiśora



*"Nanda*-kiśora, what I have got? I have got this body, and I have got some mental speculation, and maybe I have got some house and family. So everything I surrender unto You." This is called full surrender.



mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora,

*arpilūn tuwā pade nanda*-kiśora



That is wanted. If we can do that, then we shall be happy. Otherwise there is no question of happiness. Viparyayaḥ: always reverse condition, miserable condition. Thank you very much. (end)





750814SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.56-57

-

Bombay, August 14, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*ayaṁ hi śruta*-sampannaḥ

*śīla*-vṛtta-guṇālayaḥ

*dhṛta*-vrato mṛdur dāntaḥ

*satya*-vāṅ mantra-vic chuciḥ



*gurv*-agny-atithi-vṛddhānāṁ

śuśrūṣur anahaṅkṛtaḥ

*sarva*-bhūta-suhṛt sādhur

*mita*-vāg anasūyakaḥ

[SB 6.1.56-57]



*These are qualifications of the most exalted person. In the society the brāhmaṇa is the topmost division of human society, not by caste or by birth but by qualification. These things are spoken about Ajāmila. These are ajāmila*-upākhyāna, the history of Ajāmila. Ajāmila, although he was a very well trained brāhmaṇa boy at the beginning of his life, but later on, on account of bad association he became the most sinful man in the world. But at the end of his life he chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, not meaning Nārāyaṇa the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but his youngest son's name was Nārāyaṇa. He called the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, calling his son. He did not know that he is chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, and still, he got salvation. That is the purport of this history, that the holy name of God, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma... There are many names of the Lord. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā. He has got thousands of names, and you can chant any one of them, either Kṛṣṇa or Rāma, Govinda, Nārāyaṇa, like that. So you get the result.



So here the example is that Ajāmila, although he had forgotten Nārāyaṇa, but on account of his chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, although he meant his son, it was effective. We have to understand like this. Somehow or other, if you chant the holy name of the Lord, knowingly or unknowingly, it will have its effect. Just like you touch fire knowingly or unknowingly, it will burn; *similarly, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra knowingly or unknowingly, it will be effective on your life. Therefore we see it practically that in the Western countries, although they did not know who is Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa... It is dictionary, the English dictionary, there is statement, "Kṛṣṇa is the name of Hindu god." So, but nobody is consulting dictionary for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But the śāstra says that somehow or other, if you chant the holy name of God, then you gradually become purified. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So this history of Ajamila's life is described in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam to show the importance of chanting the holy name of God. That is the purpose.

*So the Ajāmila later on became a great sinful person. Therefore he was to be taken to Yamarāja. But because he chanted at the end of his life "Nārāyaṇa," he became purified from all sinful activities. So the order-carriers of Nārāyaṇa came to deliver him, save him from the hands of the Yamadūta. So the Yamadūta is describing the history of Ajāmila in the past, how he was in the beginning. Because he was the son of a brāhmaṇa, his father trained up the brāhmaṇa boy like a brāhmaṇa. So as such, he got this training. What is that? Ayaṁ hi śruta-sampannaḥ: "This boy got training to become expert in Vedic knowledge." Śruta-sampannam. Śruta means Vedic knowledge, and sampannaḥ means finished. Within twelve years a brāhmaṇa's son is supposed to finished all the studies of Vedas, vyakāraṇa, grammar. That was education. From five years he is trained up. He goes to... Nowadays also, the children are sent to school at five years age, but the mode of education, different. Formerly, within twenty years a student, a brahmacārī, was trained up with all these qualifications, as it is described. What is that? The first is śruta-sampannaḥ, "expertly aware of Vedic knowledge." Ayaṁ hi śruta-sampannaḥ, śīla, śīla-vṛtta-guṇālayaḥ. Śīla means śuddhacara, cleansing. Because brāhmaṇa's qualification is śamo damo satam. What is that? Śamo damo... Tapo satyam. Cleanliness. So this is also trained up, how to become clean, to rise early in the morning, take bath, wash mouth, feet. Guṇa-sampannaḥ. Then take to maṅgala-āratika. In this he was also trained up. Ayaṁ hi śruta-sampannaḥ śīla-vṛtta-guṇālayaḥ. Guṇa means sad-guṇa, this śamo damo titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. These are guṇālayaḥ, reservoir of all good qualities. Dhṛta-vrata. These things not occasionally but regularly, dhṛta-vrata. "I must rise early in the morning"*-that is called dhṛta-vrata, vow. "I must do it." Dhṛta-vrato mṛduḥ, mild, gentleness. This is human life, not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Real human life, the picture is here. One must be trained up to all these qualifications. Just like nowadays we send our boys to school, college, for being trained up as a technician, formerly the boys were sent for education... These are the effects of education.

Education means to become human being. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he also, although he was a politician, but brāhmaṇa, he also says who is educated, paṇḍita. The brāhmaṇa is known as paṇḍita. So what is the sign of paṇḍita? He has summarized,

*mātṛ*-vat para-dāreṣu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭra-vat

*ātma*-vat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



*Paṇḍita means mātṛ*-vat para-dāreṣu: "to accept all women as mother," para-dāreṣu. Dāra means wife, and para means others'. Except his own wife, he should treat all women outside, taking them as mother. Therefore, still in Hindu society, every woman is addressed by an unknown man, "mother." It doesn't matter if a person is unknown. He can speak with another woman, addressing him first..., addressing her first, "mother," "mātājī." Then nobody will be offended. This is the etiquette. That is taught by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Mātṛ-vat para-dāreṣu. Woman should be addressed as "mother." And para-dravyeṣu loṣṭra-vat: and others' property should be accepted as some pebbles on the street-nobody cares for it. If some pebbles, some stones, are thrown on the street, nobody cares for it. Garbage. So nobody should touch others' property. Nowadays the education is how to make friendship with others' wife and how to take away others' money by tricks. This is not education. The education is here: Mātṛ-vat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭra-vat, ātma-vat sarva-bhūteṣu. Sarva-bhūteṣu: in all living entities... There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. The grass is also a living entity, and Brahmā is also a living entity. So a paṇḍita accepts everyone as living entity, and he deals with them-ātma-vat: "What I feel, pains and pleasure, I must deal with others by the same sentiment." Therefore modern days' nationality means human being. But actually the animals, they are also national. National means one is born in the same country according to their definition. The "national" word is never found in the Vedic literature. This is modern invention. So here ātma-vat sarva-bhūteṣu. It doesn't matter whether one is national or outsider national. Sarva-bhūteṣu. Here is also... It is said, sarva-bhūta-suhṛt. Suhṛt, friend, well-wisher, sarva-bhūta. Why I shall think only well for my relatives or my family members? That is kṛpaṇa, miser. A broad-minded brāhmaṇa should be engaged for doing good to all, everyone.



*Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never instructed that "You should limit your preaching within your society or within your country." He is asking, pṛthīvite āche yata nagarādi-grāma: "As many villages and towns are there on the surface..." (aside:) That's all right. Don't be disturbed. Sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma. This is the mission. This is Vedic knowledge. Sarva-bhūta-suhṛt. You should become... (pause)

Devotee: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Why you are speaking? They can come inside. So we should be engaged, sarva*-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Everyone should be taken as friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. This is the qualification of an advanced Kṛṣṇa conscious person. So this qualification...



*ayaṁ hi śruta*-sampannaḥ

*śīla*-vṛtta-guṇālayaḥ

*dhṛta*-vrato mṛdur dāntaḥ...



*Dāntaḥ means self*-control. Śānta, dānta. Śānta means how to become self-controlled, not to become disturbed by the senses. These are training for a first-class human being. But there is no class human... Nowadays it is said "classless." First class and last class, all one. This is the modern philosophy. But that is not very scientific proposal. The scientific proposal is that there is first class man and there is tenth class man, but everyone can be utilized for the ultimate goal of life. That is classless. And that means everyone can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It doesn't matter whether by his qualification he is first class or last class. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is transcendental. First class, last class is considered in the material world. But so long one is not on the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for him this training is required to become a first-class man. And for a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, if he simply becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then automatically he becomes a first-class man. This is the secret of success. Kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyanāḥ, dhunvanty aghaṁ nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. It is said, dhunvanti Every sinful reaction becomes washed away if one becomes vāsudeva-parāyanāḥ, kevalayā bhaktyā. All these qualities can be attained by a devotee automatically. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. Sarvair guṇaiḥ, all good qualities As it said, guṇālayaḥ, the reservoir of all good qualities. This can be attained, this stage can be attained, only by training in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So about Ajāmila, the Yamadūtas, they said, "We know that this man Ajāmila was fully qualified before." Dhṛta*-vrato mṛdur dāntaḥ satya-vāṅ: truthful, never speaks untruth. Satya śama dama, satya. Or satya-vāṅ means paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Paraṁ satyam is Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva. Who is only speaking about Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Truth, he is called satya-vāṅ. He does not speak anything... Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. He is simply glorifying. If one's life is dedicated to preach about Kṛṣṇa, then he is also satya-vāṅ. He does not speak anything else. So our, these Kṛṣṇa conscious members, they are simply trained up to go and speak about Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are satya-vāṅ. They do not speak anything else. They do not waste their time by speaking anything which has no relation with Kṛṣṇa. That is satya-vāṅ. Satya-vāṅ mantravit. Mantravit means Vit means one who knows, and mantra means Vedic hymns. Mantravit. So therefore Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra... Hare Kṛṣṇa, this chanting, is called mahā-mantra. So if anyone chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, then he is not only mantravit but he is mahā-mantravit because the Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting is called mahā-mantra. Mantravit. Mantravit and śuci. Śuci means brāhmaṇa, and muci means non-brāhmaṇa.

*There are two words still current in the Hindu society: śuci and muci. Muci means cobbler, dealing with skin. "I am this skin," "I am white skin," "I am black skin," "I am American skin," "I am Indian skin"*-this understanding means muci. And muci is skin expert. "This is cow skin. This is goat skin. It is lamb skin." This is... He is called muci, skin expert. Modern technology has given the title "tannery expert." So this "tannery expert," if you become tannery expert, then you are muci. So there is a Bengali proverb, muci haya śuci haya, yadi kṛṣṇa bhaje. Every one of us, we are all tannery expert and we have created so many "isms" on the basis of becoming a tannery expert. Therefore they are called muci. So muci haya śuci haya. And śuci means brāhmaṇa, pure. He has no such sense of becoming a tannery expert. He is brāhmaṇa, brahma-vit. One who knows Brahman, he is called brāhmaṇa. He is śuci. He is not more tannery expert. So therefore, it is said, if from the muci platform if you want to become śuci, really brāhmaṇa, purified, then you have to take to Kṛṣṇa conscious. Muci haya śuci haya, yadi kṛṣṇa bhaje. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then from the platform of becoming a muci, one becomes śuci. Therefore we have no caste distinction because our process is to elevate the muci to the platform of śuci, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Actually that is the fact. We are unnecessarily becoming tannery expert. That is not the aim of life. The aim of life is to become śuci, to become brāhmaṇa, or the person who is aware of Brahman. Brahma jānātī iti brāhmaṇaḥ. This is the philosophy. But nobody is interested to become a brāhmaṇa. Everyone is interested to remain a muci and tannery expert. That is not the aim of life. So this is training. Muci haya śuci haya. One can be trained up to become a śuci from the platform of muci. And even though one is born of a śuci family, if by practice he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he automatically becomes a muci. Śuci haya muci haya, yadi kṛṣṇa tyāje. If one gives up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even though he is born in a brāhmaṇa family or even though he has practiced brāhmanism, still, on account of his not accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is accepted as muci. Śuci haya muci haya, yadi kṛṣṇa tyāje. And muci haya śuci haya, yadi kṛṣṇa bhaje: if one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is śuci. This is

So this Ajāmila became śuci, brāhmaṇa. Then guru, agni. Guru, the spiritual master; agni, the fire; *and atithi. Atithi means uninvited guest, hospitality. If somebody comes at your home without your invitation, he is called atithi. Tithi means particular time and date. But a person arrives at your home without any invitation on particular time and date, he is called atithi. Atithi-satkāra. This is also one of the items of Vedic culture. Atithi-satkāra. So the sannyāsīs especially, they are begging from door to door. So they have no fixed up program in which door he will go on which date. No. Anywhere they approach. Therefore atithi means generally the brahmacārī and the sannyāsa. Brahmacārī is also begging alms from door to door, and a sannyāsī also allowed, but door to door does not mean that he would collect more than is necessity. But he does not cook. A sannyāsī goes to a pure householder's life, er, home, because generally in a brāhmaṇa's house or kṣatriya or vaiśya... But not to a śūdra. This is restriction. Why? Because the three upper classes, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, especially the brāhmaṇa-they are considered the topmost*-they have got Viṣṇu worship at home. Still in all brāhmaṇa's family, ancestral śālagrāma-śilā is worshiped in a brāhmaṇa family. So also in kṣatriya family also. So these sannyāsīs go to a brāhmaṇa family because it is known fact the brāhmaṇas are engaged in worshiping Viṣṇu.

*Brāhmaṇa means Vaiṣṇava. Brāhmaṇa means paṇḍita. Therefore two words are used along with the word brāhmaṇa: brāhmaṇa*-vaiṣṇava, brāhmaṇa-paṇḍita. Śruta-sampannaḥ. The first qualification is śruta-sampannaḥ. He must be learned scholar in Vedic... Vedic knowledge means śruti. So that is the first qualification. Ayaṁ hi śruta-sampannaḥ. So therefore brāhmaṇa is paṇḍita. Without becoming a paṇḍita, how one can become brāhmaṇa? Śruta-sampannaḥ. Śruta-sampannaḥ, then guru, agni, very respectful to spiritual master, agni, the fire... Because a brāhmaṇa has to make fire sacrifice every day. Guru, agni, and atithi. Atithi is a sannyāsīs. They are coming to a brāhmaṇa's house for one capātī. They don't want more. They are called mādhu-karī. Mādhu-karī means mādhu... Mādhu is collected by drops, not in lump. The, what is called, bees? Honey bees? What is called? No, honey, and bees, what is called? Mādhumakṣi? Bumblebees. Yes. So they collect a drop-from this flower, drop; that flower, drop; that flower, drop. In this way they make a big honeycomb. So a brāhmaṇas and kṣatriya, er, sannyāsīs, although they are meant for collecting, they do not collect heavy at a place. Little. Because they are collecting not for his sense gratification. He is collecting for satisfying Kṛṣṇa. So everyone is given chance, that "You give little. You give little. You give little," and whole thing is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. And just like here we have got the container of flour and container of rice. So although we are feeding two hundred men daily, still, it can be collected by muṣṭi. Everyone, gṛhastha, can come and place one muṣṭi attar. That is not difficult for him. He has got children, family. He is consuming five kilos of attar daily. Out of that, little, if it is put into the temple, he does not feel any burden. Therefore the collection... Sannyāsī, brahmacārī collects little, little, little from everywhere. That is called mādhukāri, exactly following the footsteps of mādhukāra, bumblebees.

*So they are very... Householder, this is meant for the householder especially. This is ideal householder, that guru, agni, atithi, vṛddhānām. Old man also should be taken care of. Nowadays the philosophy is coming: "mercy*-killing." "Old men should be killed to show him mercy." Because he is burden in the society, the communistic theory "Old man does not do anything and simply eats; *therefore to show him mercy he should be killed." "Mercy*-killing." Just see the philosophy: "Killing is mercy." But this is going on. "Mercy-killing." Is that? "Mercy-killing"? What is that?

Brahmānanda: They kill someone for that person's benefit.



*Prabhupāda: Benefit. So the man killer, will he take that benefit? If somebody comes that "I shall kill you for your benefit," that he will be afraid of. But he is philosophizing, "mercy-killing." This is going on. So one should be respectful also to the old men. According to Vedic knowledge, brāhmaṇa, old men, child, woman, and cow*-they have no fault. They are free. They are not within this jurisdiction of law. So therefore cow-killing, brāhmaṇa-killing, woman-killing, and elderly-person-killing, they are accepted as the great sinful activities. So gurv-agny-atithi-vṛddhānāṁ śūśrūṣur anahaṅkṛtaḥ. Anahaṅkṛtaḥ, not with any pride or puffedness, anahaṅkṛtaḥ, very humbly. Sarva-bhūta-suhṛtam. This is the most exalted qualification, to become well-wisher of all living entities, not that we open hospitals for the human being and we send the cows to the slaughterhouse or poor animals should be slaughtered. That is not suhṛt sarva-bhūtānām. That is partiality and it has no meaning. If you become envious to other living entities and if you become friend of particular living entity, that is not good qualification. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ. Sarva-bhūtaḥ-suhṛt sādhu. He is sādhu. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. These are the qualification of a sādhu. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. Everything is described in the Vedic literature, all description.



So this Ajāmila's past qualification is described in this, that he was well qualified brāhmaṇa, well trained, because these qualification became manifested in his life. Then his degradation began.

ekadāsau vanaṁ yātaḥ

*pitṛ*-sandeśa-kṛd dvijaḥ

ādāya tata āvṛttaḥ

*phala*-puṣpa-samit-kuśān

[SB 6.1.58]



dadarśa kāminaṁ kañcic

*chūdraṁ saha*-bhujiṣyayā

[SB 6.1.59]



*That, this, we may describe later on and how degradation begins even to exalted person, as described, Ajāmila. So the degradation began-dadarśa, he saw on the way... Kāminaṁ kañcic chūdram. Chūdram, these male-female behavior... Nowadays, not so much in India, but in the Western countries it is very usual thing*-a young man is embracing another young woman or kissing. So there is no fault. But according to Vedic civilization, this is fault because it will give chance to others. Nowadays in picture they are also shown to enthuse others to become lusty, and that is the beginning of his falldown. But there is no restriction. The young men, they are seeing daily in the cinema, on the road, in their school, college. But this Ajāmila, although he was so exalted a brāhmaṇa, simply by seeing one śūdra... Śūdra means who has no training, fools, rascals. So he was embracing another woman, and that became attractive to this Ajāmila, and then he wanted to do the same thing and he became degraded. This will be described later on.



Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.56-62

-

Surat, January 3, 1971,

at Adubhai Patel's House



710103SB.SUR

*Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just sprinkle, not individual, sprinkle. Minimize time. Don't waste time. So the point is here that Ajāmila was so qualified just as a brāhmaṇa, perfect brāhmaṇa, born of a brāhmaṇa father and educated, qualified, and acquired the qualities. All the qualities are mentioned, that śruta*-sampannaḥ. Śruta-sampannaḥ means well studied in Vedas. That is a brāhmaṇa's qualification. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipraḥ. Vipra, brāhmaṇa, without any knowledge of the Vedas, (laughs) that is not a brāhmaṇa. So he was actually brāhmaṇa, śruta-sampannaḥ. And after... Simply reading of Vedas as a scholar is useless. Just like foreign Western scholar... (aside:) Now stop. One must practically apply the knowledge, not like armchair politician or armchair Vedantist, smoking cigarette and reading Vedānta. This kind of study of Vedas is useless. Now, we have seen so many sannyāsīs, so-called sannyāsīs, talking on Vedānta and smoking at the same time. You see? So Ajāmila was not like that. He was a scholar in the Vedic literature. Ayaṁ hi śruta-sampannaḥ śīla-vṛtta-guṇālayaḥ. And he was very well behaved and reservoir of all good qualities. Guṇālayaḥ. Dhṛta-vrataḥ, and avowed to follow the regulative principles.



This point we have already discussed, that the most important point is that even one is such qualified, there is chance of falldown as Ajāmila. Because in the beginning Ajāmila was introduced, the story of Ajāmila was introduced,

kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid

*dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ

*nāmnā naṣṭa*-sadācāro

*dāsyāḥ saṁsarga*-dūṣitaḥ

[SB 6.1.21]



*Dāsyā. Dāsyā means prostitute. In India it is the old custom that a prostitute quarter is maintained for the lusty people. Those who are not satisfied with one wife, they should not pollute the society, but they should go to the prostitutes. So that means illicit sex, sex without the, I mean to say, intention for begetting a nice child, that is illicit sex. There are two kinds of illic... Avaidha*-strī-saṅga. Avaidha. Avaidha means against the vidhi, against the regulation. Putra-piṇḍa. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. Bhāryā means wife. Wife is accepted simply for begetting sons. Therefore it is called dharma-patnī. Dharma-patnī. A son is required... Why one should accept a wife for begetting son? Putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. According to Vedic dharma the piṇḍa-dāna, offering piṇḍa, oblations to the forefather, putra is pun-nāmno narakād yasmāt trāyate iti putraḥ. Well, everything is derivative, and it has got sound substance in each and every word of Sanskrit. Who is putra? There is a naraka, hell, hell, and if somebody by his sinful action is sent to that hell, the putra will deliver him. Pun-nāmno narakād yasmāt trāyate. That pun-nāmna, that pu... Pun-nāmno narakāt, the first word of that naraka, pu, and trāyate, tra, if combined together, it becomes putra. So putra has meaning. Putra is not a product of sexual intercourse. No. Putra means "who can deliver the forefather if by chance he is fallen in the hellish condition." Therefore putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. What is putra-piṇḍa? Caitanya Mahāprabhu also showed us the example. He went to Gayā Pradesh to offer piṇḍa for his forefathers. This is necessary still. In Gayā there is Viṣṇu temple, and in the Viṣṇu temple the oblation is offered at the lotus feet of the... There are many practical cases that one's father or mother became ghost after death, and after offering oblations at the lotus feet of Viṣṇu at Gayā, he was delivered. There are many cases.



*So actual fact is Viṣṇu worship. That is the ultimate goal of Vedic civilization, but they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Their attention is diverted in so many demigods. The greatest disservice to the society, that "Here is another god, here..." Not only manufacturing a man-god, but they are advising that "Any god you can worship." No: Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Vedic mantra. Those who are sūrayaḥ, means advanced... Sūrayaḥ means... Sūrayaḥ and asūrayaḥ. Asūrayaḥ means demons. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved suraḥ: "Those who are devotees of Lord Viṣṇu, they are sura." Asuras tad-viparyayaḥ: "And those who are not Viṣṇu bhaktas, they are asuras." Just like Rāvaṇa was very great devotee of Lord Śiva; *still, he was a asura. Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was a great devotee of Lord Brahmā, but he was considered asura. So anyone who is not devotee of Lord Viṣṇu, he is asura. That is the verdict. Asuras tad*-viparyayaḥ. And this piṇḍa-dāna is offered oblations to the Viṣṇu. So if any man becomes a Vaiṣṇava, he is offering oblations to Viṣṇu every moment, so his forefathers are delivered without any trouble. Without any trouble. If one's son becomes a Vaiṣṇava in the family, he can deliver fourteen generations, up and down. That is the verdict. Not only verdict, this is the version in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*When Prahlāda Mahārāja, offered all benediction, but he declined: "My dear Lord, I have tried to worship Your lotus feet not for any material benediction. And we are born of a father too much materialistic. Naturally I have got the tendency for enjoy material prosperity. And you are so able, Supreme Personality of God... You can give me any kind of material prosperity. So if You induce me in that way, 'Take benediction, whatever you like,' naturally I will be inclined. But do not put me into such illusion." That was the reply. He could ask any benefit... (aside:) On the side. He could ask any material benediction from Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, but this is not pure devotee. They were pure devotees. By worshiping Lord, one should not ask for any material benediction. Why they should? That is not the proper... That is not pure devotion. Pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], no material desire, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], without any coverage of fruitive activities and speculative knowledge. Because the real purpose of successful life is to invoke your dormant love for Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Premā pum-artho mahān. That is the highest perfection. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is first-class religion, pursuing which one can develop his dormant love for God. That is first-class religion.

*So Ajāmila was being trained up. He was sufficiently educated in Vedic literature, his character was very nice, and he was offering respects to the elderly persons, spiritual master. He was offering oblations daily to the fire, sacrifice. Everything is described. But all these qualities became nullified simply by illicit sex life. Just see how it is dangerous. How it is dangerous. Therefore it is the greatest pillar of sinful life, illicit sex life. Here it is clearly said, stated, that... Ajāmila's qualities were stated at the same time. In the beginning it is stated that kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid dāsī*-patir ajāmilaḥ. Dāsī-pati. He was attached to a prostitute, dāsī-pati. A prostitute is called dāsī, and wife is called dharma-patnī. These are distinction. There are distinction of dresses also, according to Vedic way of life. The prostitute would separate the hair here, not in the middle. Yes, what is called?

Guest (1): Part.



*Prabhupāda: That is... A prostitute should, I mean to say, comb her hair in that way so that people can understand she is prostitute and she is chaste woman. And this sindūra, the red, red lead, these were the signs. A vidava, one who has no husband, they should wear without any skirt, sari without any skirt, vidava, without any bangles. So people will understand, "This woman is without husband," "This woman is prostitute," "This woman is chaste woman," "This woman is not married," "This woman's husband is away from home." So different dresses. Proṣita*-bhartṛkā. Proṣita-bhartṛkā. The name was... A woman whose husband is away from home, she should not dress very nicely. She should not comb her hair. That is the system. There are so many systems.



*So anyway, this, this brāhmaṇa, although so much qualified, and because he kept one prostitute it is clearly stated, naṣṭa*-sadācāra: "All his good qualities became void." All his good qualities. Naṣṭa-sadācāra. Why naṣṭa-sadācāra? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ: "Simply by association with a prostitute." Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. This Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago, and this story... Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "I am speaking an old story." That means this incident of Ajāmila was not less than fifty thousand years ago. At that time, five thousand years ago, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is narrating "a very old story." And very old sto..., at least forty thousand, fifty thousand years old. So just see how Vedic civilization was planned from the very..., time immemorial. Simply by association of illicit sex life so many qualities became null and void.

Now he is describing that,

ekadāsau vanaṁ yātaḥ

*pitṛ*-sandeśakṛd dvijaḥ

ādāya tata āvṛttaḥ

*phala*-puṣpa-samit-kuśān

[SB 6.1.58]



*For offering daily worship fruits, flowers, and samit, the kuśa, grass, everything is required for... His father ordered him, "Just bring all these things." He went in the forest to collect all these things, and while coming back he saw one śūdra was in embrace with a prostitute, and he happened to pass that way and he stood there and saw, attracted. Young man becomes attracted. Therefore these things should be very secretly done. Everyone knows that a husband, wife, have sex intercourse. But not like cats and dogs. That is human civilization. Not that on the road the boy or the girl is embracing, kissing, and having sex life. This is animal life. This is animal life. Simple they are educated to prostitution. Now, at the present moment, father, mother, sends the daughter for prostitution: "Find out a suitable man. Attract a suitable man. Don't marry abruptly. Just test this man, this man, this man, this man, this man. Then marry." So father*-mother, they are teaching daughters prostitution. This is the condition of the society. How there can be peace? And they are after peace. They are making conference-"peace." By conference and passing resolution there can be peace? And the result is Naxalites, Communists. Huh?



Guest (1): Naxalism.



*Prabhupāda: Naxalite-ism. So all over the world. It is not only in India*-all over the world. There cannot be peace unless you reform the whole social structure, and that can be done only by this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Only by this movement. That's a fact, and it is being done.



*So how this man fell down, it is said, that ekadāsau... Dadarśa kāminam. Kāmina, kāminam. Kāminam means lusty. The lusty people, they do like that. They do not care for society, do not care for elderly persons, do not care that "People will not like this." In the road, in the street, in the sea beach-anywhere*-in the cinema. These things are very advertised in cinema nowadays to attract people. You see? Formerly in India this was not, but they are gradually introducing all this nonsense to make people more lusty. And to become lusty means that he is going to hell. He is going to hell. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam [SB 5.5.2]. If you want to open the door of your liberation, then you should engage yourself in serving the mahat, the devotees, a pure devotee. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Tamo-dvāram means the door for hellish condition of life. And if you want that, then you mix with yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Those who are too much attached to women, you associate with them. These things are there in the śāstras. And practically it is said, dadarśa kāminaṁ kañcic chūdraṁ saha bhujiṣyayā, pītvā ca madhu maireyam. Not only he was engaged in embracing a prostitute, but the prostitute was drunk. Her eyes were moving by madhu. Wine is made from madhu, sugar, and still, all spirit is made from molasses. This is old system. This is very intoxicating. Rectified spirits, you know, doctor may know, this is made from molasses. Because we were in the chemical line we know. So here it is also said that spirit made, liquor made, whiskey made from madhu... Pītvā ca madhu-maireyam. Maireyam. Another process of manufacturing wine is, from a flower, is called mahuyā, mahuyā flower. Perhaps you know. The jungle people, the kirātas, they take this mahuyā flower from the jungle, and they soak it in water, and when it is fermented, it becomes wine. So such kind of... Everything is there. If anyone wants to manufacture wine, that is also there in Bhāgavata. You see? (laughter) Because it is perfect knowledge, all knowledge you can get.

*So pītvā ca. Pītvā means drinking. Madhu*-maireyam. Pītvā ca madhu, mada āghūrṇita-netrayā. When one becomes a drunkard, his eyes are not set up in right position. These things he saw. Mattayā viślathan-nīvyā vyapetaṁ nirapatrapam. And because both of them were drunkard, their, I mean to say, dhotis and saris were slackened. Now it has become a fashion, to slacken, but this is not very good. To make more attractive for sex indulgence, of course, this has become a fashion, but it is not very good. Then mattayā viślathan-nīvyā vyapetaṁ nirapatrapam. And because they were so rascal, they had no, I mean to say, bashfulness. They were freely... Nirapatrapam. Nirapatrapa means one who does not care for any public criticism. Nirapatrapam, krīḍantam anugāyantaṁ hasantam anayāntike. And was laughing and smiling and singing and enjoying. And this boy, Ajāmila, when he was passing on that road he saw everything. Dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma-liptena bāhunā parirambhitām. The boy, when he saw that they are engaged in such lusty affairs, bāhunā, with arms, parirambhitām... Parirambhitām means embracing one another.

*dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma*-liptena

bāhunā parirambhitām

*jagāma hṛc*-chaya-vaśaṁ

sahasaiva vimohitaḥ

[SB 6.1.61]



Although he was so much trained up, still, vimohita, forcibly he was attracted to this thing, forcibly. Because young man.



*So these things are being shown regularly in the cinema. What character will be formed of the young men? By seeing once, this Ajāmila, he fell down so much, and our boys and girls are seeing these things every day in the cinema. So what kind of character you can expect from them? These are the instruction to be taken from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But generally people go to hear Bhāgavatam to the professional reciters when the rāsa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa is described, because they think, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is doing this, embracing a nice girl. So this is very nice." Not this part of Bhāgavata is interesting. That part of Bhāgavata is very interesting, and people gather in ten thousands to hear rāsa-līlā. And the reciter will make very monetary profit. This is going on, Bhāgavatam. Nobody is interested to hear the incidences of Ajāmila. They at once go to Kṛṣṇa. Although Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā is not this lusty affair-that is a different thing-but people, because they want such thing, they are very much addicted to Bhāgavata reading, or Bhāgavata recitation when rāsa-līlā is described. So the rāsa-līlā should be strictly... Caitanya, according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction-we follow that*-this rāsa-līlā chapter is not for ordinary person. They are meant for liberated persons, not for ordinary persons. Therefore they should not be, this rāsa-līlā description should not be made amongst ordinary people. Those who are advanced devotee, those who are liberated from material contamination, they should try to understand what is rāsa-līlā. That is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that one should not even imagine the rāsa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa. But it is meant when one is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is for them only.

*So dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma*-liptena bāhunā parirambhitām. Kāma-liptena, engaged in such lusty affairs, embracing one another by the arms, jagāma hṛc-chaya-vaśaṁ sahasaiva vimohitaḥ, all his education and training become bewildered, and he become attracted and stunned by the scene. Stambhayann ātmanātmānaṁ yāvat sattvaṁ yathā-śrutam.

stambhayann ātmanātmānaṁ

yāvat sattvaṁ yathā-śrutam

na śaśāka samādhātuṁ

*mano madana*-vepitam

[SB 6.1.62]



*Madana*-vepitam. Madana, this Cupid. When Cupid attacks somebody or one who... When one becomes, I mean to say, too much attracted by lust, all his education, all his culture, all his knowledge, becomes stunned. That is the... Therefore one has to avoid this society. Tyaja durjana-saṁsargam. The Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he advises us, tyaja durjana-saṁsargam: "Always avoid durjana-saṁsargam, association with durjana." Durjana means sense gratifying persons, those who are engaged only in sense gratification, durjana. And sujana means those who are engaged for spiritual enlightenment. They are called sujana. That is the instruction everywhere. Therefore, from the very beginning of life a boy is sent to gurukula for good association. Gurukula means... Still there are many gurukulas in India, a spiritual master training some boys in spiritual life. That has also become polluted. So many things... This is Kali-yuga. Therefore the only way of deliverance from this bewilderment is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... He became attracted. Na śaśāka samādhātuṁ mano madana-vepitam. He is personally seeing the sex affairs. How he can be checked from the sex appetite? It is clearly said, na śaśāka: "He was unable," na śaśāka samādhātum, "to control himself." Controlling.



*Therefore these things are strictly prohibited for public seeing. These things... Everyone knows that when there is man and woman or husband and wife there is..., but not to be publicly exhibited. According to Hindu system-we have seen it*-the wives go to the husband at night and nobody could see. Everyone... When everyone has gone, all elderly people has gone to sleep, then the wife goes. And he (she) comes early in the morning so that nobody can see when she has come out from the husband. This was the system. And at daytime no wife was allowed to see the husband, especially young wife. So this sex affair, according to Vedic civilization, is strictly regulated. It is not that cat's and dog's sex life. Because if you allow the sex life like cats and dogs, then the society will be cats and dogs. So these things are to be taken lesson from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. All right.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) [break]



Guest (1): In the *Rāmāyaṇa* it told that how we should hear actual life, and *Rāmāyaṇa* told actual that, in that grantha, how we should live. And if you are saying Rāma to be asura, how we are...



Prabhupāda: Rāma was asura?



Guest (1): No, you told that.



Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa was asura.



Devotees: Rāvaṇa.



Prabhupāda: (laughter) Oh, you have become asura. You do not hear properly? You have become asura. It is God saved you that you questioned. Otherwise you would have gone like asura. You do attentively hear. Don't speak like asura.



Haṁsadūta: Starting with chanting.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That happens, you see. Not hearing attentively, sometimes wrong conclusion is made. Yes.



Guest (2): Proper question, there is answer.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Guest (2): If you are questioned properly, there is answer.



Prabhupāda: There is answer.



*Revatīnandana: You said... If these pastimes of rāsa*-līlā are only for liberated souls, and yet in Kṛṣṇa book, in Nectar of Devotion, there are some descriptions of pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda: That is very cautiously mentioned. Yes. It had to be given because it is part of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. We cannot avoid it. Therefore it has to be heard from right person. He will be cautious to present the things. Anuśṛṇuyāt. The injunction is one should hear from a person bona fide, anuśṛṇuyāt, not directly. Not directly. (aside:) Give that note to Bhagubhai.



Revatīnandana: In this age it's practically impossible. We cannot avoid this kind of association.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. There is no other alternative. You have to take this purificatory process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no other way. You cannot reform the society. That is not possible. You cannot train them in the Vedic way. Everything is lost now. Manda*-bhāgyāḥ. They are all unfortunate, manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ, and disturbed by the social con... Yes.



*Devotee (1): It says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that when, if one performs devotional service, then his result is never lost. Then how was it possible for Ajāmila to lose all his devotional service to Viṣṇu by associating with a prostitute?



Prabhupāda: What is that question? I do not follow.



*Devotee (1): It says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that if one makes a little bit of endeavor on the path of devotional service...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (1): ...then the result is never lost. So then how was it possible for Ajāmila to lose his devotional...?



Prabhupāda: He was not in devotional service.



Devotee (1): He was not serving Viṣṇu?



*Prabhupāda: He was trained... Viṣṇu worship is not always devotional service. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was presented by Rāmānanda Rāya about Viṣṇu worship, He said, "No, no. This is not the right description. You go further." You'll find in the... Yes. "You go further." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. Because unless they understand what Viṣṇu..., simple official Viṣṇu worship will not help. One has to become real devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā... Generally goes to Viṣṇu for asking something, or any other demigod, they go. People are very much addicted to material enjoyment. Either he goes to śuddha*-bhakti... This bhakti means śuddha-bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. That, that is transcendental platform. There are viddha-bhakti. Viddha-bhakti. So one who goes to worship Viṣṇu for some material bene... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja went. That was bhakti, but that was viddha-bhakti, adulterated. Dhruva Mahārāja went to gain his father's kingdom. That is arthārthī. Ārtaḥ arthārthī. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām. Four kinds of men goes to worship Viṣṇu: ārta, those who are distressed; arthārthī, those who are in need of money or material benefit; jijñāsu, those who are inquisitive; *and jñānī-these four kinds. Out of these, jijñāsu and jñānī are better than the ārta and arthārthī, the distressed and need of money. So even the jñānī and jijñāsu, they are not on the pure devotional service because pure devotional service is beyond jñāna also. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Just like gopīs, they did not try to understand Kṛṣṇa by jñāna, whether Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. No. They simply automatically developed*-not automatically; *by their previous good activities*-acute love for Kṛṣṇa. They never tried to understand Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God. When Uddhava tried to preach before them about jñāna they did not hear it very attentively. They simply absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Never mind Kṛṣṇa worship, but one loves Kṛṣṇa. And that is wanted. That is spontaneous. Real love means that. A lover does not consider what he is, the opposite party, what he is, whether he is rich man, whether he is educated man or educated... There is no such consideration. Love is spontaneous. That is an example also. Similarly, love for Kṛṣṇa, that should be simply spontaneous, without any consideration. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām: [Cc. Antya 20.47] "Either You trample down under Your feet or embrace me, still, I love You." That is love, that kind of love. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...



Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Haṁsadūta: If someone is engaged in devotional service and he commits an offense at the feet of a pure devotee, whatever he has done up until that time is not lost? Or he, in his next life he gets...?



Prabhupāda: No, if he thinks that he has committed offense, he should ask pardon, excuse, that's all.



Haṁsadūta: What if he just goes on and he never asks pardon? Is he finished in...?



Prabhupāda: Then that he should. That he should. That he should.



Haṁsadūta: He should ask.



Prabhupāda: Yes. "Please excuse me. I have done..."



Haṁsadūta: But suppose he doesn't ask and he just...



Prabhupāda: That is obstinacy. Why should he not? If he thinks that he has committed offense, why should he not ask excuse?



Haṁsadūta: Well, he may not think so. He may just find himself falling down.



Prabhupāda: Then fallen down, what can be done? To save from this fallen down she should ask or he should ask, "Please excuse me. I have done..." That's all. Finish it. And a devotee is always prepared to excuse. Why should he not ask? Yes. One should be very cautious, and if it happens so, then he should ask to be excused. That's all. Yes.



Devotee (2): That's the cause of all falldown, committing offenses at the feet of a pure devotee?



Prabhupāda: There are many causes. One should be cautious, that's all. Therefore one should hear, one should be cautious, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will help. We should be cautious, but if something is done unwillingly, that is excused by Kṛṣṇa. That is another thing. We are offending in every moment, but when it is within our consciousness we should take some precaution that "This should not be done. If I have done, ask excuse." That's all. Finish.



Devotee (3): And also in the *Bhāgavatam* that many times even great devotees like Akrūra and so many great devotees of Kṛṣṇa offered prayers to Kṛṣṇa to please forgive him for all his sinful activities. So then this can be taken as prayers too.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Prayer, prayer, daily prayers, offering, means like that. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka, by avowed determination that "I shall chant so many times, I offer this prayer..." One should be very active and enthusiastic. Life should be so molded that only devotional service, no other thought, no other offense, nothing. We have so many engagements, so many opportunities. We can execute devotional service without any disturbance. And one may commit offense once-not that to repeat that offense. Unwillingly committing offense is excused, but willingly committing, that is very dangerous. So why one should commit offense willingly? There is no meaning. Unwillingly or unconsciously one may commit. That is excused. [break] ...in Bhāgavata, bhajatām, sa-pāda-mūlaṁ bhajatām. There is a verse like that. That is excused. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]? Unwillingly, by his practice, he has committed. That is excused. Not that "Because I have become a Vaiṣṇava, because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, therefore I can do any kind of offense. It will be counteracted." This is the greatest offense. Sometimes it happens but that is very grievous offense. On the strength of becoming Vaiṣṇava and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and committing offense at the same time, that is the greatest offense. That should be avoided especially. But unintentionally, unconsciously, something is done*-that is excused. And if we understand that "We have... I have committed this offense," immediately steps should be taken. That's all. [break] ...think tomorrow there will be no meeting, eh? Tomorrow, early in the morning, at four, we are going to Bombay. But you can hold this meeting and discuss this Bhāgavatam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Guest (3): But there is no possibility of staying here, no?



*Prabhupāda: Eh? [break] ...create vitality. Utsāha. Therefore it is called utsāhād dhairyāt tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt, niścayāt. Utsāha requires enthusiasm, vital force.



Guest (3): Devotion also.



Prabhupāda: Hm? All right.



Guest (3): Service to mankind is service to God. Remember.



Revatīnandana: Is that true, Śrīla Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Revatīnandana: That service to mankind is service God?



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.



Guest (3): Doctor. For doctor, I mean.



Prabhupāda: Well, that is another thing. When doctor gives service to man, he does not give service to the man; he gives service to the money. (laughter)



Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, hearing(?) from Haṁsadūta's question, sometimes we might experience that our Godbrothers have fallen away, and when they have fallen away they really fallen and lost their spirit and they fall away.



Prabhupāda: Best thing is that after this meeting you should stand together and fall down, "Prabhu, please excuse me."



Yamunā: Oh, jaya.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Is that all right?



Revatīnandana: What is going to happen to these who are left and they are..., commit offenses against you?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Revatīnandana: They have left and yet they are committing offenses against you and against Kṛṣṇa because they have become deranged.



Prabhupāda: Therefore the falling down, obeisances, is there. If there is any offense, by offering obeisances it is excused.



Yamunā: All glories to Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: And amongst yourself you should also offer obeisances, "Prabhu, please excuse this offense."



Yamunā: And then take remedial measures.



Prabhupāda: Then... Then finished. That is system. One now... Everyone should fall down. What is that? (end)





750828SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.61

-

Vṛndāvana, August 28, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma*-liptena

bāhunā parirambhitāṁ

*jagāma hṛc*-chaya-vaśaṁ

sahasaiva vimohitaḥ

[SB 6.1.61]



So in the morning we shall speak in Hindi for the foreign students. In the evening there will be Hindi. Morning, seven up to eight or little more, and similarly in the evening.



*So we are talking about Ajāmila. He was a nice brāhmaṇa boy executing the duties of a brāhmaṇa, but one day, when he was passing, he saw one śūdra and one śūdrāṇī embracing, kissing, talking, laughing*-all lusty affairs. So it is mentioned here, śūdra.

ekadāsau vanaṁ yātaḥ

*pitṛ*-sandeśa-kṛd dvijaḥ

ādāya tata āvṛttaḥ

*phala*-puṣpa-samit-kuśān

[SB 6.1.58]



*Dadarśa kāminaṁ kañcic chudram. Śūdram. This business on the public way, kissing, embracing, this is meant for the śūdras. Therefore it is said, kalau śūdrā*-sambhavāḥ: "In the Kali-yuga the population is all śūdra." There is no brahminical culture. Brāhminical culture means śama, dama, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. A real brāhmaṇa will never agree to embrace the opposite sex in public way. No. That is not brāhmaṇa's business. He has been trained up how to become controller of the mind, controller of the senses. That is the first business of a brāhmaṇa. Śama, dama, satyam. He is truthful, śaucam, clean, thrice taking bath. So you should always... You are given the chance of becoming brāhmaṇa. You should not become again śūdras or mlecchas or caṇḍālas. Be careful. This is brāhmaṇa business. If we again come back to caṇḍālas or śūd... Caṇḍāla means less than the śūdras. Even śūdras, they eat meat under control. But caṇḍālas, they eat meat without any control. So just like in the Vedic society, although there are meat-eaters, they would eat meat after offering sacrifice to Goddess Kālī. Restriction. Restriction. Because if you eat meat from the slaughterhouse there is no restriction. You can go and purchase at any time. But if you follow the scriptural regulation, they say, "Yes..." It is restriction. It is indirectly saying, "Don't eat," but because this less intelligent person will not be able to understand, therefore they are given some permission under certain restriction. This is restriction, that "If you want to eat meat, then you must offer sacrifice to Goddess Kālī and then you can." And the Goddess Kālī is worshiped once in a month. That means by restriction he will come to his senses; he will give it up. So śūdra, up to śūdra, there is possibility of raising him. Although he can see ideal character, it is not that anyone be ideal character like a brāhmaṇa. That is not possible. But still, in the society there must be an ideal person who is actually brāhmaṇa.



*So śūdra... This kind of business on the public street... Just like cats and dogs, they have sex pleasure without any shame on the street. Similarly, the śūdras, they embrace the opposite sex in the public street, and sometimes they have got sex also. I have seen in the Western countries*-without any shame... So he saw, this brāhmaṇa boy. The brāhmaṇa boy saw. He is young man. Although he is qualified with the brāhmaṇa... Not exactly qualified; otherwise he would not have fallen. He was on the neophyte stage. Therefore we restrict, "No illicit sex." Completely forbidden. Otherwise it will be very difficult to keep oneself in the brahminical standard and make spiritual progress. Without being in the platform of brāhmaṇa, you cannot make any spiritual progress. That is not... A śūdra, a vaiśya... But they can be trained up. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyo śūdrās tathā vaiśyās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, a śūdra, a caṇḍāla, the lowborn, he can be elevated to the highest stage of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is higher stage than brāhmaṇa.



*So this boy, Ajāmila, he was passing, he saw that the śūdra was embracing another śūdrāṇī. Dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma*-liptena. When he saw that this man and woman is embraced with one another with lusty desire... Embracing woman or man, this is kāma, lust. There is no question of any other thing. Kāma-liptena. Dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma-liptena bāhunā. The man was embracing the woman, and the woman was embracing, pari-liptena, very closely attached, and everything was going on. Then... We have got lusty desires. Everyone's heart... Hṛd-roga-kāma. The material world means there is a heart disease which is called kāma, hṛd-roga-kāma. So hṛc-chaya-avaśam. If we... This is called impetus. If I see one engaged in lusty or sex affairs, naturally my sex desire also becomes awakened. Even though I am trying to control in the neophyte stage, still, if I see in my front something, lusty affairs, naturally I will be inclined to such. Therefore it is called avaśam. He was student, brahmacārī, practicing śama, dama, satyam, śaucam. He was not very old man; *he was young man. But he could not control. Therefore it is said hṛc*-chaya-avaśam. Avaśam sahasaiva: "all of a sudden," vimohitam, "he became very much attracted."

*So this is the social condition. If in society we have no restriction, then naturally those young boys and girls, they will be inclined. And as soon as one is sexually inclined, he forgets all other culture and gradually becomes down fallen, as you will see from the life of Ajāmila. Although he was trained up... So similarly, this is a warning to our students that they are learning how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is very difficult job. To become Kṛṣṇa conscious is not very easy thing. But by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we are trying to teach that, and it is becoming effective. Otherwise how you all European and Americans can give up these four sinful activities? So try to preserve. And it can be preserved only by remaining in the devotional service. It can be. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26].

māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena ya sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*As soon as you come on the platform of Brahman, brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54], then you will be able to. Otherwise you will not be able to. If you don't come on the transcendental platform, then you will not be able to.



*So we have to stick to these principles to keep ourselves on the transcendental platform, rising early in the morning, offer maṅgala ārati, then gradually, one after another, attending class, guru*-pūjā, and so on, so on. Up to till you go to bed, you should always be engaged. Then you will be above these three guṇas. Just like this boy, Ajāmila. He is attracted because all of a sudden he fell down on the platform of passion. There are three platforms: sattvic, rajasic, tamasic. So if you keep yourself on the sattvic platform, there is also chance to falling down on the passion and ignorance. But if you keep yourself in the śuddha-sattva platform... Śuddha-sattva platform means devotional service. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. Śuddha platform means... That is called vasudeva. As Vasudeva can beget a child whose name is Kṛṣṇa, similarly, if you keep yourself on the vasudeva platform, sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam, then Kṛṣṇa will take birth. Kṛṣṇa will take birth. So our these rules and regulation, restriction, means to keep one on the vasudeva platform. We should remember always that. And if you keep yourself on vasudeva platform, these things will not entice you. Otherwise we shall be enticed and fallen down. Agāma hṛc-chaya-vaśaṁ sahasaiva vimohitaḥ.

*Sometimes we go to hear or see rāsa-līlā. But unless we are advanced in spiritual consciousness, this hearing of or seeing some rāsa-līlā, sometimes it brings us down. If one is actually seeing rāsa-līlā, the result will be hṛd-roga-kāmam apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ. This is the injunction in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. If one has actually heard from a realized person about vikrīḍitam idam vraja-vadhūbhir viṣṇoḥ, Viṣṇu and vraja-vadhū, the gopīs, vikṛtam, their līlā, their pastime Śraddhānvita anuśṛṇūyād atha varṇayed yaḥ. One who is actually advanced in spiritual consciousness, śraddhānvita, anuśṛṇuyāt, and hears from the realized person-anu, anu means paramparā, not from ordinary person, professional reciter, but from a realized person*-the result will be hṛd-roga-kāmam apahinoti. Then the, our natural lusty desires will disappear. That is the result. But in spite of disappearing our, this lusty desire, if we increase our lusty desire, that means we are spoiling our life. Therefore it is forbidden that neophyte students, they should not indulge in these affairs of rāsa-līlā. You should be very careful. People are very much accustomed to see rāsa-līlā in Vṛndāvana. Maybe they are advanced, but the test is whether he has given up his lusty desire. That is the test. If he has given up, then, after seeing rāsa-līlā, he should not have returned to home. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "Do not go to Vṛndāvana with return ticket." So therefore it is very confidential. There are ten cantos in Bhāgavatam. Nine cantos are devoted to understand Kṛṣṇa, nine cantos. Then tenth canto begins. Then Kṛṣṇa's birth and pastimes are mentioned there. So we should not jump over the tenth canto all of a sudden. People are very much anxious to jump over the tenth canto. No. Tenth canto is the mukhāravinda. It is the face of Kṛṣṇa, smiling. But Kṛṣṇa worship begins from the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody offers flowers and tulasī on the face of Kṛṣṇa. They offer on the feet. That is the beginning, the first and second canto of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, two lotus feet. So we have to go by and by. And when we are actually experienced devotional servant, then you try to understand the tenth canto. This is the way. Otherwise there may be fall down, as this Ajāmila fell down. He was neophyte, and as soon as he saw the śūdra and śūdrāṇī embracing, he became victmized.

*So we should be very... Brahmacārī, there are so many restrictions. Even to see woman-"A beautiful woman is going, let me see"-that is also forbidden. That is also subtle sex enjoyment. Gross and subtle, there are so many subtle sex enjoyments*-to think of woman, to see a beautiful woman going on the street, or to talk about woman, to read about woman. There are eight kinds of subtle sexual intercourse. So it is restricted. But in the Kali-yuga it is very difficult to follow all the rules and regulation. One is not trained up. Even up to ripe old age, one becomes attracted by beautiful women. Especially in the Western countries. I have seen in Paris, old man, seventy-five years old, eighty years old, they are going to the brothel. They are going to the night club. They are purchasing ticket to enter into the club-fifty dollars. Then they have to pay for the woman and wine and everything. In this way...

*So hṛd*-roga-kāma, this hṛd-roga, hṛc-chaya, is a heart disease. It is very, very difficult to avoid unless one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. And that is stated by Yamunācārya:

*yadavadhi mama cettaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravinde

*nava*-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt

*tadavadhi bata nārī*-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*This is the test. Yadavadhi kṛṣṇa*-padāravinde. "Since I have learned how to take transcendental bliss from the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa..." He is explaining. He was an emperor. He had ample opportunity of enjoyment, material enjoyment. He was enjoying it. But he said, "Since I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious and I am taking pleasure in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, from that time," bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne, "whenever I think of enjoying with woman, I spite on it." This is the test. This is the test, how I am becoming advanced. You do not require any certificate from anyone. You can learn yourself. Just like when you are eating, you do not require any certificate from others, "Whether I am feeling all right?" Eating means you are hungry, so if you eat, you will feel satisfied. Your hunger will be satisfied. You will be getting strength. These are the symptoms that have eaten. Similarly, when you'll no longer be attracted by this sex desire, then you should understand that "I am now making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This is the test.



*So this boy became victimized. Although he was under training, he was not completely fit. Therefore he fell victimized by seeing this affair, lusty affairs. So at that time might be one or two cases. Now the whole world is full with all of these lusty desires, especially in the Western country. Here also now it has come. No more they are following the Vedic principles. But it is not so deteriorated as in the Western countries, and so we should be very, very careful. Not only... Simply becoming careful will not. We must advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and that is very easily done by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. If you keep yourself always engaged in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, then it will be... Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This is hṛc-chaya-vaśam. The lusty desire is a disease of the heart. It is... Practically it has no value. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. They cleanse the heart with all dirty things. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. How? Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. This is confirmed in Bhāgavatam, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51] Simply by chanting, you can keep. If you follow the rules and regulation and chanting, then you will not be victimized. You'll make your progress without any fear.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750829SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.62

-

Vṛndāvana, August 29, 1975



Prabhupāda:



stambhayann ātmanātmānaṁ

yāvat sattvaṁ yathā-śrutaṁ

na śaśāka samādhātuṁ

*mano madana*-vepitam

[SB 6.1.62]



*So his mind became very much agitated, young man, and he is seeing in his front that another young man and woman embracing and kissing. It is very difficult to restrain. Unless one is very advanced, it is not possible. That I was reciting, the verse by Yamunācārya, yadāvadhi mama cettaḥ padāravinde, kṛṣṇa*-padāravinde nava-nava-dhāman rantum āsīt, tadāvadhi bata nārī-aṅgame bhavati suṣṭu niṣṭhi... Unless one is very strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is very difficult to restrain the mind and the senses. It is very difficult. Here it is said, mana madana-vepitum. Madana means Cupid, or the lusty desires. So he was agitated. His mind was agitated by lusty desires. Therefore we have to be very careful for the association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. We develop different consciousness by particular association. Therefore, for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we must associate with the devotees. You cannot advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness without being in the association of devotees. Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says... (aside:) Tell them that Hindi will be in the evening. Tell them that Hindi will be evening. They are going away. Yes. Between half past seven to half past eight. So mano madana-vepitam. Cupid is always disturbing. This material world means this Madana, Cupid, whole material world. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ [SB 7.9.45]. Gṛhamedhi means those who have decided to prolong this body for sense enjoyment. That is going on. Everyone is trying so hard. In big, big cities they are working so hard like hogs and dogs, not for... They say that "We are hungry. We must work very hard." But that is not the fact. The real fact is that "We want to enjoy sex." So far hunger is concerned, you can control, but sex desire, it is very difficult to control.



So this material world means that maithunādi. Maithuna means sex intercourse. That is the beginning of material life. You know very well how strong is sex desire in the Western countries. Even old man, going to die, he has also. Although he cannot enjoy sex, still, he is trying his best by medicine, by other means, by intoxication, by stimulant. So that is the only happiness of this material world.

*yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ

*kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha*-duḥkhaṁ

*tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ

kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ

[SB 7.9.45]



*The human civilization means to create the population dhīra, not to be disturbed by sex impulse. This is human civilization, not that so many so*-called sādhus and... They are now preaching openly the yoga by sex. Yoga by sex. They have invented. Yoga means to find out the Supreme Lord within one's self, within the core of the heart. That is real yoga. Yoga means to connect. To connect with whom? With sex life? No. The sex life connection is there even in the birds, beast, ants, animals, worms-everywhere-because the whole world is going on on sex life. Does it require any yoga system? But people are fallen so down that they have invented because people want it, and these rascals, they exploit. This is going on. So real yoga system means to control the senses, not to increase or indulge. They are clearly advertising in the Western countries, "Transcendental meditation. There is no restriction. There is no question of faith," and so many things, means as people want it. They want money, and they advertise like that. People do not want to follow the religious principles. People do not want any restriction. They advertise, "Yes. You haven't got to follow any restriction. You haven't got to believe in some religion. You simply pay me $127, and I give you mantra, and you become happy." This is going on.



*But that is not the fact. Real fact is how to control the mind. Here we see that mana madana*-vepitam. Na śaśāka samādhātuṁ mano madana-vepitam. Our mind is always agitated for sense enjoyment. Mind is the master of the senses, or the chief man, just like superintendent. Mind is dictating, and the senses The mind is dictating, "You go there"; immediately the legs go. "You see here"; *the eyes see. So mind is the center. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Bhagavad-gītā. This living entity, mamaivāṁśo Kṛṣṇa says, "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So question may be, "Then why they are rotting here? If the living entities are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or God, so why does he not live with God?" The immediate answer is manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. These living entities, these conditioned souls who has come to this material world*-the only reason is that they want to satisfy the senses, manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. Therefore there is struggle for existence. He wants to enjoy. He wants to become the enjoyer. But he is not enjoyer. That is called illusion. He is enjoyed. He cannot enjoy. Enjoyer is only Kṛṣṇa, puruṣa. Puruṣaḥ śāśvatam.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. Kṛṣṇa, the Lord, is described as puruṣa, and living entities are described as prakṛti. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā, jīva-bhūto mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. Kṛṣṇa has explained. There is material energy and spiritual energy. So jīva-bhūta. Jīva-bhūta, the living entities, they have been described as prakṛti, and prakṛti means females. And Kṛṣṇa has been described as puruṣa. So puruṣa is the enjoyer, and prakṛti is the enjoyed. Don't think that "enjoyed" means simply sex. No. "Enjoyed" means subordinate, to carry out the order of the puruṣa. This is the position of Kṛṣṇa and ourself. We are part and parcel, just like the hands and legs are my part and parcel of the body. So the duty of the hands and legs are that carry out my order. I say my legs, "Carry me there." He will... It will do immediately. My hand-"Just take it." I'll take it. The hand will take it. So this is prakṛti and puruṣa. The puruṣa orders, and the prakṛti performs the duty. This is the real..., not that as soon as we say prakṛti and puruṣa, immediately there is question of sex. No. Means... Prakṛti means obedient, obedient to the puruṣa. This is natural way. In the Western countries they are artificially trying to become equal, but that is not possible by nature. And there is no such question, inferiority or superiority. There is no such question. Such like the begin, in the beginning, yato vā imani bhūtāni jayante. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Wherefrom this puruṣa and prakṛti relationship begun? Janmādy asya yataḥ. It has begun from the Absolute Truth. Therefore Absolute Truth is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, the same puruṣa and prakṛti. But Rādhārāṇī is the servitor, serving. Rādhārāṇī is so expert that She always attracts Kṛṣṇa by Her service. This is Rādhārāṇī's position. Kṛṣṇa is called Madana-Mohana. Here in Vṛndāvana there is Madana-Mohana, and Rādhārāṇī is called Madana-Mohana-Mohinī. Kṛṣṇa is so attractive that we are attracted by Cupid, and Kṛṣṇa attracts Cupid. Therefore His name is Madana-Mohana. And Rādhārāṇī is so great that She attracts Kṛṣṇa. Therefore She is the greatest. In the Vṛndāvana, therefore, people are accustomed to chant Rādhārāṇī's name more than Kṛṣṇa's name-"Jaya Rādhe." Yes. If you want Kṛṣṇa's favor, you just try to please Rādhārāṇī. So this is the way.

*Now here it is said, mana madana*-vepitam: "Mind was agitated." So this mind agitation will go on unless one is attracted by Madana Mohana. If we do not be attracted by the Madana Mohana, so long we are not attracted by Madana Mohana we must be attracted by Madana, madana-vepitam. This is the process. And unless you can control your mind, unless you are able to control your mind not to be disturbed by Madana, there is no question of liberation or salvation. The ultimate goal of life is how to become free from this material engagement, repetition of birth, death, and threefold miseries. That is the perfection. They do not know what is the goal of life, what is the perfection of life, the whole world. Especially in this age they are so fallen that they do not know what is the goal of life. All these big, big political parties, philosophers, scientists, they have no knowledge. They are in the darkness. Therefore it is called illusion, in the darkness. But we understand that kṛṣṇa sūrya sama: "Kṛṣṇa is just like sun." Kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama; māyā andhakāra: "And this darkness means māyā."

*kṛṣṇa sūrya*-sama; māyā andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra

[Cc. Madhya 22.31]



Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. This is the process.



*So it is a great science. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is most scientific movement to get the whole human society from the pitch of darkness. Gṛham andha-kūpam. Gṛham andha-kūpam. The Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by his father, "What you have learned most...," I mean to say... I forget. Yes, "The best thing, what you have learned?" He said, hitvāndha kūpaṁ, hitvātma-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. Tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. The same thing. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. The materialistic persons, they are always in anxiety. Tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehinām. Dehinām means not only human society. Anyone who has accepted this material body, even a small ant, and a big, the demigods, Indra and Lord Brahmā, such big, big They are also living entities, and the ant is also living entity. By their pious activities they have got big, big post as demigods, prolonged life and many other facilities. But they are all living entities. So these living entities means everyone has got a material body. Material body means it will end. Antavanta ime dehā [Bg. 2.18]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. However strong you may be for one, antavanta ime dehā, it will end. You cannot You may run in the morning three miles and then take very stimulative foodstuff, and Everyone is trying to become very strong. That is good, but however strong we may be, even Hiraṇyakaśipu, it is not possible to stay here. Hiraṇyakaśipu became very, very strong. He insured that he would not die in daytime, at nighttime, and in the water, in the land, on the sky, not by any human being, not by any demigods, not by any animal, not by any weapon. Everything he insured there. That's all right. But God's policy is so nice that, all his insurance keeping aside, He killed him not by weapon-by the nails. He forgot this, that "I may be killed by the nails." Then he thought, "I shall not be killed by any animal or man." So Nṛsiṁhadeva*-you cannot say it is lion or man-mixed. And he thought that he would not die in daytime or nighttime, but he was killed in the evening. It is neither day nor night. So he would not be killed in the sky, in the water or in the land, so he was killed on the threshold. Therefore we should always remember that we cannot cheat God. He is always at least little more intelligent.

*So the conditioned soul, they want to cheat God. They want to deny God. They want to cheat God. That is not possible. In spite of all your insurance and cheating policy, you must have to die. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ ahaṁ, sarva-haram: "You do not accept Me. That's all right. You are collecting things for your enjoyment. But I shall... When I shall come as death, not only you shall be killed, but I shall take away whatever you possess." So this is intelligence, that... They say, "There is no God," and God says, "Yes, you see Me at the time of death." But you cannot avoid death. So before meeting death... Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Prahlāda Mahārāja so many times requested, "My dear father, why you are becoming atheist? By His grace you have got so much power. Just submit to Him." "No. There is no God. I am God." So this is called demon. In spite of being punished in so many ways, they will deny the existence of God. So they are... Those who are not devotee, they will be agitated by the māyā, by Madana, by Cupid, by so many other illusory things. But if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then nothing can. Because Kṛṣṇa conscious person is not in want. He is not in want. So long we will be in want, our mind will be agitated. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advised that, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām: "Those who are always agitated..." Everyone is agitated. Samudvigna. Tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehinām. Anyone who has accepted this material body must be always agitated in mind, sadā. Why? Asad-grahāt. Because he has accepted this temporary body, he must be full of anxiety. It cannot be avoided. Asad-grahāt. Asato mā sad gama. The Vedic injunction is "Don't keep yourself in this temporary world or temporary body. Must go to the spiritual world, back to home, back to..." This is Vedic injunction. Sad gama. Asato mā sad gama. Asad-grahāt. If you accept this temporary material world, means temporary body... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... [Bg. 2.13]. We are transmigratng from one body to another. This is asad-grahāt. Why I shall transmigrate if I am eternal? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. I am eternal. So this is intelligence: "How I can get permanent body so that I may not have to change bodies one after another." This is intelligence.

*So this person... There are many important words in this verse, and it can be explained for a long time. The one word is that stambhayann ātmanā ātmānam. Just like a thief is going to steal. He also tries to control him: "I am going to steal. The after-effect will be that I will be arrested, and I will have to go to jail, and it is forbidden by śāstra and human laws also, state laws. So I am going to steal. There is risk." Actually there is risk. But this consciousness beats him, but he cannot control. This is the position. He cannot control. He knows everything, but still, he steals. The same thing happened here. Here it is said, na śaśāka samādhātum. He was a brāhmaṇa, learned brāhmaṇa. He knew that "I am being agitated by these sex desires. It is not good. It is not good." Yathā-śrutam. Śruta. Śruta means Vedic knowledge. He had sufficient education in Vedic knowledge. Yathā-śrutam and yāvat sattvam, as far he could control... Stambhayann ātmanā ātmānam. He tried to control the mind as far as intelligence concerned, but na śaśāka*-he could not control. Na śaśāka samādhātum. Why? The mind was too much agitated. This is the point. This is the point, that his mind was too much agitated, madana-vepitam, by lusty desire. Lusty desire is very strong. Therefore it is in the injunction of the śāstra,

mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā

nāviviktāsane vaset

*balavān indriya*-grāmo

vidvāṁsam api karṣati

[SB 9.19.17]



That is vidvāṁsam api karṣati. This Ajāmila is a learned brāhmaṇa. He is vidvān. He is not a fool. But vidvāṁsam api karṣati. Therefore it is forbidden, mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā: "Don't keep yourself in a lonely place and talk 'pish pish' with woman, even she is mother, daughter, or sister." Strictly forbidden. That "pish pish" will kill you. Therefore it is forbidden that "Don't talk in solitary place with woman even she happens to be your daughter, your mother, and your sister." Generally one is not agitated in sex with mother, with sister, with daughter. But it is forbidden up to death. Even Brahmā became agitated by seeing his daughter. There is instances. Even Brahma, and what to speak of others?



*So mind is so susceptible that... But this mind can be controlled only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad*-gata anāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. Mad-gata, thinking of Kṛṣṇa, āntarātmanā, within the core of heart. Mad gata anāntarātmṇā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo mataḥ: "He is first-class yogi." So unless we can control the mind, we cannot become yogi. Yoga means indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Yoga means not reducing fat or this or... No. Yoga means controlling the mind, controlling the senses, and concentrate it upon Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. Mat para. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That is yoga. When we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa and practice yoga, then it will be successful, not that transcendental meditation, this, all foolish things. No. So we have to control the mind. If you want liberation from this material world, you have to control your mind. Therefore Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he showed us example that sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. Simply engage your mind thinking of Kṛṣṇa and talk of Kṛṣṇa. Then this agitation will not disturb you.

Thank you very much. (end)



750830SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.63

-

Vṛndāvana, August 30, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*tan*-nimitta-smara-vyāja

*graha*-grasto vicetasaḥ

tām eva manasā dhyāyan

*sva*-dharmād virarāma ha

[SB 6.1.63]



*So the one word is very significant in this connection: graha*-grasto vicetasaḥ. Graha-grasto means ghostly haunted or influenced by bad star, graha-grasto. Sometimes we become... We are always graha-grasto in this material world. It is said by some Vaiṣṇava poet, piśāci pāile yena mati-cchana haya māyār graṣṭa jīvera sei dāsa upajaya. Piśāci, ghostly haunted or inspired by the witches, when one becomes so, mati-cchana, he becomes bewildered and his intelligence becomes scattered. Mati-cchana. That is the condition of all living entities within this material world in different degrees. Everyone is ghostly haunted. And what is that ghostly haunted? That ghostly haunted, tan-nimitta-smara-vyāja. This Ajāmila had seen one śūdra and one śūdrāṇī were embracing, kissing, laughing, enjoying in lusty affairs. So he became tan-nimitta. By seeing these activities of the śūdra and the śūdrāṇī, naturally the lusty desire is there, which I explained yesterday. It is called hṛd-roga-kāma. This kāma, lusty desire, is a heart disease. So he was infected by the heart disease by seeing the scene, that one woman and man is embracing kissing, immediately.



*So the nature's law is so nice or so perfect that by seeing only, you will be infected, by seeing only. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. We are put into such a position that every moment we are being affected by the three modes of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. The prakṛti, the nature, is working so expertly. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. And kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg. 13.22]. In this way our transmigration from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], it is due to this infection of contacting different material modes of nature. The whole world is going on. So therefore our business of human life is how to protect ourself from this infection of material nature. That should be the aim of human life, not that allow us to be infected more and more and become implicated in the cycle of birth and death, sometimes lower, sometimes higher. This is not intelligence. The intelligence is how to get out of it. In the lower animal forms of life the nature takes care. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-sāṅkhyakāḥ. From the aquatics to the plant life, then insect life, then bird life, then beast life, then we come to the human life. And that is also When we come to the civilized life we should not waste our time like animals or lower creatures.

Therefore another important thing is that those who are born in India, Bhāratabhūmi, they are to be considered the topmost. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haile jāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Those who have taken birth in India, Bhāratabhūmi, they should make their life perfect by understanding the Vedic knowledge. And the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa comes here to teach the Vedic knowledge. He left Bhagavad-gītā. Then Vyāsadeva developed the idea of Kṛṣṇa consciousness from Bhagavad-gītā, Vedānta-sūtra, into Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyayaṁ brahma-sutrānām. So we have got this advantage, and we are giving up these advantages. First of all, the advantage is that we are born in India, and we have got the stock of knowledge left by great sages, ṛṣis and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And you are not taking advantage of it. How much foolish we are becoming by so-called education, we should understand that. It is graha-grasta. We are thinking that... Our leaders are thinking that India, becoming too much religiously conscious, they have been poverty-stricken. No. That is not the fact. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, by Kṛṣṇa's will, everyone is provided. In the Vedas it is said, yo eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The Supreme Lord is quite competent to provide, to supply the necessities of life to millions and millions of living entities. There is no question of scarcity of supply. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. In the forest there are millions of elephants. Who is supplying them food? Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So there is no question of overpopulation. Overpopulation, there is no question of. If Kṛṣṇa has overpopulation, He is competent to supply them food. But it is the nature's restriction. When we become godless, the nature's trouble will be there. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Just like the flood is going on in many parts of the world. So this is due to our sinful life. Nature is punishing. Adhidaivika. You cannot control. Nature will punish. Why nature is punishing? Because we are godless. That is nature's business. The more we become godless, the more we'll be punished by the laws of nature. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. You cannot surpass. You make many scientific plans to overcome*-it is not possible. Then how it is possible? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. Unless you surrender to Kṛṣṇa That is your business.



*Therefore Kṛṣṇa openly says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. The Ajamila, he was brāhmaṇa, undoubtedly, but he fell a victim to māyā. But you know the story of Haridāsa. He was young man at that time, and one man instigated a prostitute, young prostitute, to deviate him, but she was unable. On the other hand, the prostitute became a Vaiṣṇavī. This is the difference between a devotee and a nondevotee. A nondevotee cannot surpass the stringent laws of material nature. But a devotee can do that because a devotee is not affected by the influence of material nature. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that,

māṁ cavyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*"Anyone who is strictly engaged in devotional service, he surpasses the influence of the laws of material..." Sa guṇān samatītya etān. He can surpass. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate. This is the only way. Otherwise how these European and American boys and girls, they are living strictly under regulative principle-no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication up to drinking tea, and no gambling? How they can surpass them? It is possible when one is a devotee, pure devotee. That is possible.



*So this is the example. The Ajāmila was trained up as a nice brāhmaṇa, but he was not still expert to become Vaiṣṇava. Therefore... But still, the seed of Vaiṣṇavism was there because a brāhmaṇa is trained up how to worship Viṣṇu, how to worship Nārāyaṇa. That is essential. So this boy was also trained up how to worship Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu. And it was beneficially at the last stage of his life. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even if you practice little of devotional service, it can save you from the greatest danger of life. That actually happened in the life of Ajamila. So tan-nimitta. So in this age, especially Kali-yuga, it is very, very difficult to save oneself from these infections of life. We have got already... We have come to this material world to fulfill our lusty desires. Naturally whenever there is any lusty activities, our heart disease immediately becomes impeted, and the same thing happened to Ajāmila. And graha-grasto vicetasaḥ. Graha-grasta. Just like when we are haunted by ghost-a ghost captures, then vicetasaḥ, we are lost, lost of our our consciousness, our intelligence*-he became like that. Tām eva manasā dhyāyan. Then, instead of meditating on Kṛṣṇa, he began to meditate on the lusty affairs of the śūdra and the śūdrāṇī.

*Therefore, in the Kali*-yuga the so-called meditation is a farce. Because we are always seeing these lusty affairs before our eyes, naturally when we close our eyes and meditate, instead of thinking of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, we shall think of woman and other things. Therefore it is not possible. In the Kali-yuga it is not possible. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. In the Satya-yuga it was possible, meditation on Viṣṇu, not on other things. But now, in this Kali-yuga, we are infected with so many lusty desires that it is not possible. Therefore śāstra said, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ majato makhaiḥ. You can realize Viṣṇu because Viṣṇu is the ultimate goal of life. But we do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. So that Viṣṇu meditation was possible in the kṛte, in the Satya-yuga, when a man used to live for hundred thousands of years. And then reduce. The next age it is ten thousand of years. Then again, in the next age, it is one thousands of years. And now it is reduced to one hundred years. So therefore it is said that,

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ majato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*In the Kali-yuga you perform perfect meditation by loudly chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This is the recommendation of the śāstra*-not only one, but many śāstras. In the Bhāgavata also it is said,



*kaler doṣa*-nidhe rājan

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

*mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

[SB 12.3.51]



*So there are dangers in this material world. It is very dangerous place, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58], every step, not only spiritually, materially also. Suppose you are out of this temple, there is every chance you may be dashed by a motorcar and die. So it is dangerous. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. So our motive of life should be how to get out of this dangerous position of life. How to get out of it, that should be the aim, not that to become more and more implicated in with this dangerous situation of life. That is not intelligence. The intelligence is how to get out of it. That is this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to get out of this dangerous position and go back to home, back to Godhead*-this is the mission. It is not that by spiritual advancement one gets material facilities to increase the income and increase the standard of sense enjoyment. This is karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra karma, to get the resultant action of our fruitive activities. And that is not very... They are called mūḍha. Those who are engaged in karma-kāṇḍīya entanglement, they are called mūḍha. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has commented on the word mūḍha described in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā. The mūḍha means karmīs. Karmīs, they work day, day and night, very hard. What is their aim? The aim is sense gratification. That is done by animals like dogs and hogs and asses. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This is the recommendation, that this life, human life, ayaṁ deha, nṛloke, in this Everyone has got a material body, but one who has got a material body in the human society, nṛloke Kaṣṭān kāmān na arhati. To work so hard simply to satisfy the senses is not desirable.



So modern civilization means that increase the activities of sense gratification. And especially... Of course in India, still there are peaceful land. But in the Western countries, from five o'clock in the morning we see on the streets thousands and thousands of motorcars. They are going to work, thousands and thousands. And they will come at night. This has begun also in India. We see in big, big cities like Calcutta and Bombay, they are coming early in the morning from home, and going, night, going at home at night, ten o'clock, eleven o'clock, and then sleep for two or three hours and again go to work. So there is a story. Just like a little child, because when his father comes back, he is asleep, and when the father goes out of home, he is asleep. So one night he saw one man is lying there. So he is asking his mother, "Who is this man? Who is this man?" Actually this is the position, that we are working day and... Bombay and Calcutta we have seen that they are hanging on the, what is called, local trains, and there are sometimes accidents.

*So in this way, gradually, we are coming to very dangerous, I mean to say, pattern of living condition with the age, with the advancement of this age of Kali. And it is said that for earning our bread we have to work like an ass in this Kali*-yuga. This is not civilization. The civilization is... That is really Vedic civilization, that ayaṁ deha. Nāyaṁ deha nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān. We should make our life so simple and easy that we can get our necessities of life without any hard labor and save time to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect civilization. This is not perfect civilization. There is every chance of being influenced by these lusty desires, and that is going on, especially in the Western country. They lusty for fulfilling these lusty desires there are so many clubs at night, nightclubs, bottomless and topless and so many advertisements. This is not civilization. Civilization is peaceful life, and we should be satisfied in simple mode of life and always think of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Vṛndāvana life is like that, Vṛndāvana life, especially those who are engaged in devotional service. So we have opened this temple to give facility to the elderly section of the human being to come and live with us. We invite all elderly persons, especially retired person. They should come and live with us. We have got a nice guesthouse, and if required, we can construct many other guesthouses. At least those are retired Everyone should retire after fiftieth year. That is the injunction of the śāstras, that pañcāśordhvaṁ varaṁ vrajet. After fifty years one should give up family life and vanaṁ vrajet. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanam. Vanam means Vṛndāvana. Vanaṁ vrajet. Similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja has advised,

*tat sādhu manye asura*-varya dehināṁ

*sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt

*hitvātma*-ghātam gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

[SB 7.5.5]



*Vanaṁ gato. One should go in the vana, in Vṛndāvana. Then what to do there? Harim āśrayeta. Otherwise, if we live in Vṛndāvana like monkeys and other animals, that will not be beneficial. Harim āśrayeta. Come here, live here and take shelter of Hari. That is the ultimate goal. Therefore Hari personally says, Kṛṣṇa, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Harim āśrayeta.



*So we are not only inviting Indians throughout the whole world. Now we have got connection with the whole world. We invite everyone. At least after the age of fifty they should come here in Vṛndāvana. They should live peacefully and take shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa*-Balarāma and be happy in this life and get salvation in next life.

Thank you very much. (end)



750901SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.64-65

-

Vṛndāvana, September 1, 1975



Prabhupāda:



tām eva toṣayām āsa

pitṛyeṇārthena yāvatā

grāmyair manoramaiḥ kāmaiḥ

prasīdeta yathā tathā

[SB 6.1.64]



*So after seeing the woman, he was meditating always, twenty*-four hours, about the subject, lusty desires. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. When one becomes lusty, then one becomes lost of all intelligence. The whole world is going on on the basis of these lusty desires. This is material world. And because I am lusty, you are lusty, every one of us, so as soon as my desires are not fulfilled, your desires are not fulfilled, then I become your enemy, you become my enemy. I cannot see you are making very good progress. You cannot see me making very good progress. This is material world, envious, lusty desires, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. This is the basis of this material world.



So he became... The training was that he was training to become a brāhmaṇa, śamo, dama, but the progress became checked on account of being attached to a woman. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, the woman is accepted as hindrance to spiritual advancement. The whole basic civilization is how to avoid... Woman... You do not think that only woman is woman. The man is also woman. Don't think that the woman is condemned; man is not. Woman means enjoyed, and man means enjoyer. So this feeling, this feeling is condemned. If I see one woman for enjoyment, so I am man. And if woman also sees another man for enjoyment, she is also man. Woman means enjoyed and man means enjoyer. So anyone who has got feeling of enjoyment, he is considered to be man. So here both sexes meant for... Everyone is planning, "How I shall enjoy?" Therefore he is puruṣa, artificially. Otherwise, originally, we are all prakṛti, jīva, either woman or man. This is outward dress.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

apareyam itas tv (anyāṁ)

viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām

*jīva*-bhūtāḥ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*The prakṛti... We are prakṛti, nature, spiritual nature, parā prakṛti. The material nature is aparā prakṛti, and we living entities, we are trying to enjoy this prakṛti. Therefore sometimes the living entity, either man or woman, he is described as puruṣa. Puruṣa means the one who keeps the feeling of becoming enjoyer. That is puruṣa. So this material world is prakṛti and puruṣa. It is said in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam in the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, puṁsaṁ striyā mithunī*-bhāvam etat. The whole basic principle of materialistic civilization is the attachment between man and woman. Puṁsaṁ striyā mithunī-bhāva. Mithunī-bhāvam is sex. And tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ. On account of this sex relationship, the man or woman is bound up. Hṛdaya-granthi. Granthi means knot, and hṛdaya means heart. So the man is thinking of the woman, and the woman is thinking of man. Hṛdaya granthim āhuḥ. Then we require material possession. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is our material, conditional life.



*So this man, although he was being trained up as a brāhmaṇa, his attention was diverted all of a sudden by seeing one śūdra and śūdrāṇī embracing, kissing, talking. So that became his meditation. Instead of meditating on Viṣṇu, he began to meditate on that śūdrani. Svayam eva toṣayām āsa. In the first verse, tan*-nimitta-smara vyāja-graha-grasto vicetasaḥ. He became mad, vicetasa, bewildered, as if haunted by ghost. Tām eva manasā dhyāyan. Always meditating, "How shall I get that woman? How shall I please that woman so that she may satisfy my lusty desires?" Therefore tām eva toṣayām āsa: "His only business was how to please her." Now they require money. So he was not earning money, but pitṛyeṇa, whatever money he inherited from the father's earning... The son generally inherits father's property. He was the only son. So he was squandering the father's money in that way just to please that śūdrāṇī-tām eva toṣayām āsa pitṛyenārthena yāvatā-as much as possible. If he could get more money, then he would have spent them only for that women. Grāmyaiḥ. Grāmyair manoramaiḥ. This word grāmya is very significant. Grāmya means external, material. Grāmyair manoramaiḥ. By the sense gratification, whatever we find very pleasing, that is called grāmya manorama. Actually that is not pleasing. That is entangling. But he became entangled. So grāmyair manoramaiḥ kāmaiḥ. The basic principle is lust. Kāmaiḥ prasīdeta yaḥ. Wanted to satisfy the woman here and there as soon as meets. We can see these examples very often. Then next step was,

*viprāṁ sva*-bhāryām aprauḍhāṁ

kule mahati lambhitāṁ

visasarjācirāt pāpaḥ

*svairiṇyāpāṅga*-viddha-dhīḥ

[SB 6.1.65]



*There are three kinds of women: kāmiṇī, svairiṇi, and puṁścalī. Puṁścalī. Svairiṇi means free, freedom. Nobody is controller. That is called svairiṇi. And kāmiṇī means to attract, very much attract. And another, puṁścalī*-living with woman, er, man for some time; giving up; again another; *again another. That is exemplified by the lightning. You have seen the lightning*-immediately, within a second, from this cloud to that cloud, that cloud to that cloud. So they are called svairiṇi. So three divisions. Similarly, there are divisions of men also.



*So in this way the material world is very, very entangled. And if we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we become free from this entanglement. All these criticisms or the divisions are there for grāmyaiḥ. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised, grāma*-kathā nā śunibe, bhāla nā khāibe nā bhāla nā paribe. This is vairāgya-"Don't indulge in grāmya-kathā." Therefore we always advise, "Don't read newspaper. Don't read any other book," because it is full of grāmya-kathā, grāmyaiḥ. So to avoid it as far as possible. There is no need. What is the news of a grāmya-kathā newspaper? The same thing repeated. "Here there is flood, where there is train disaster, where there is accident, and political, and one politician is giving speech, another politician is giving speech." These are the grāmya things. So we should save ourself. Grāmyair manoramaiḥ. These externally very attractive news, we should avoid it completely. We shall simply talk of Kṛṣṇa. That is the safest method. We shall simply talk kṛṣṇa-kathā. And kṛṣṇa-kathā means what Kṛṣṇa has said. That is kṛṣṇa-kathā. Or what is spoken about Kṛṣṇa. So Bhagavad-gītā means kṛṣṇa-kathā, what Kṛṣṇa has said. And Śrīmad Bhāgavatam is also kṛṣṇa-kathā because everything said about Kṛṣṇa. So we don't We should not indulge in grāmya-kathā. That will mislead us. And if we do not indulge in grāmya-kathā, but if we make advancement on Kṛṣṇa-kathā, then we are always situated on transcendental position. We are no more affected by the modes of material nature. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. So we should stick to this principle. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise, either I become man or woman, we are all condemned because we are implicated with grāmya-kathā.

*So grāmya*-kathā should be avoided. The temple is specially meant for Kṛṣṇa-kathā. Here there is no other business than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore a temple is always transcendental, nirguṇa. Nirguṇa. If you live in the forest, that is sattva-guṇa. If you live in the city, that is rajo-guṇa. And if you live in the brothel or liquor house or gambling house, that is tamo-guṇa. But if you live in the temple, that is nirguṇa. Traiguṇya-viṣaya-vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. This is advice of Kṛṣṇa. The whole world is complicated with the three modes of material nature, and you have to become above this material nature. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. So nistraiguṇya, how you can become? Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Who... (end)



750902SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.66

-

Vṛndāvana, September 2, 1975



Prabhupāda:



yatas tataś copaninye

nyāyato 'nyāyato dhanaṁ

babhārāsyāḥ kuṭumbinyāḥ

*kuṭumbaṁ manda*-dhīr ayam

[SB 6.1.66]



*So this is the beginning of saṁsāra. So there is attraction between man and woman, and as soon as the attraction becomes little intimate, they unite. Then they have children. Then they require money, apartment, so many things. This man became sinful. He gave up his real wife, married wife, coming from very good family, but he became attracted with that śūdrāṇī, fourth class. Śūdra means fourth class, worker class. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So śūdra women, they are not chaste. Some of them are practically professional prostitute. But that is not in higher caste family*-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. But at the present moment it is very difficult to distinguish who is brāhmaṇa and who is śūdra. But formerly this is the system of Vedic civilization-ideal character, ideal behavior of the brāhmaṇa; less, little less, kṣatriya; little less, vaiśya; and less than the vaiśya, the śūdra; and less than the śūdras are called caṇḍālas. First class, second class, third class, fourth class, and then fifth class.



So this man, being attracted with the śūdrāṇī, naturally there was children. So he began to maintain them. This is natural affection. Even cats and dogs, they maintain their children. The birds also, they maintain their kiddies. So although children were born of śūdrāṇī, natural, there was affection. So he required money. But he became sinful; *he could not earn money honestly. A sinful man cannot earn money honestly. Just like a thief: because he has adopted the means of earning money by sinful activities, he cannot take to honest work. He can work, but he is accustomed to steal. He knows that "This work is not good." If he is arrested, he will be punished. He has seen that one thief arrested and punished, and he has heard also that if one steals, he will be punished. And he has heard also from the śāstra, either law book or Vedic literature, that "Stealing is not good. It is punishable." But still, he does it. That means a sinful man cannot restrain himself from sinful activity. He has to do it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Unless you give up the particular situation with the modes of nature, it is not possible for him to restrain himself from committing sinful activities.

*So he became sinful because he left his married wife and he became attracted with a śūdrāṇī immediately. That has been described in the previous verse. Visasarjācirāt pāpaḥ. Pāpaḥ means sinful man. He became sinful immediately. Therefore we stress on marriage. They cannot understand why this association stresses so much for marriage, not to live... They live as friend. That is śūdra. There is no legal marrige. Śūdra and śūdrāṇī. Just like he was living with the śūdrāṇī-he was not married-as friend. So even śūdra's marriage there is. For the śūdra there is one āśrama*-that is gṛhastha āśrama. And for the brāhmaṇas, four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This is for the brāhmaṇas. For the kṣatriya: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, and vānaprastha. For the vaiśyas: brahmacārī and gṛhastha. And for the śūdras: no brahmacārī, only family life, and that also sometimes without marriage. This is the low-grade, first-grade, second-grade. So now to live as friend, a śūdra, that is now current all over the world. Now marriage is being forgotten. That is also written the śāstra, that "There will be no more marriage. One man and woman should live together by agreement." That is going on now in Kali-yuga. Svikāram eva hy udvāhe, it is stated. Simply agree: "Yes, you become my bedfellow; *I become your bedfellow." That's all. Finished. Svikāram eva hy udvāhe. That is marriage. No more that ceremonial marriage. That is being forgotten. This is Kali*-yuga now. Dāmpatyam eva hi... Ratim eva hi dāmpatye: "And their so-called unity, man and woman, means sex." There is no other meaning. Dāmpatye, union of man and woman, means sex. There is no other religious system, that husband, wife, live together; they should cooperate for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things are being forgotten.

*So Kali*-yuga, these things are very common, but in the previous yuga, Satya-yuga, they were not very common, but rare. This combination of the brāhmaṇa and the śūdrāṇī, this is accidental. It is not common. So anyway, accidental or organized, it doesn't matter. One who violates the rules and regulation, immediately he comes to the category of such classification. So he became a śūdra. Although he was born in a brāhmaṇa family, he was being trained up, but on account of the association of a śūdrāṇī, prostitute, he fell down and he became a pāpaḥ, most sinful man. So as a pāpaḥ, he did not know how to earn money honestly. He is neither brāhmaṇa, nor kṣatriya, nor vaiśya. He is now not even śūdra, less than that. Therefore it is said, yatas tataś ca upaninye: "Somehow or other..." According to classification, a brāhmaṇa has got specific function for earning his livelihood, a kṣatriya has got a specific action for livelihood, a vaiśya has got specific action for livelihood, and a śūdra has got a specific action for livelihood. But he became less than śūdra. Therefore yatas tataś ca-"Somehow or other, bring money, bring money." This is called yatas tataś ca, no fixed up.

*A brāhmaṇa... Everyone has to earn livelihood. That is a fact. Without working, you cannot live. So there are specific... Just like brāhmaṇa*-yajan yājan paṭhan pāṭhan dānaḥ pratigrahaḥ. He must be very good worshiper of the Lord, and he must induce his yajamāna, his dependent. Brāhmaṇa is the head, and the kṣatriya, vaiśya, they are yajamāna. So they should induce, just like we are inducing all over the world, "Open temple. Worship Kṛṣṇa." This is brāhmaṇa's business.

*śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā

*śṛṅgāra*-tan-mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*This is the duty of the guru. He worships himself. Unless he knows how to worship, how he will teach them? So he acts himself as brāhmaṇa, and he teaches the disciple how to work as a brāhmaṇa. Śrī*-vigraha. This is called yajana yājana. Paṭhana pāṭhana. He must be a learned brāhmaṇa, and he must teach others how to become learned brāhmaṇa, paṇḍita. Paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigraha. He can accept charity from others, and he will distribute it by temple worship, distribute. All that you have collected, worship the Deity and distribute prasādam. Distribute this. Distribute. Dānaḥ pratigrahaḥ. This is brāhmaṇa's business. Paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana. And kṣatriya, they will be governor of certain villages or little extended, and they will give protection. Kṣatriya means giving protection. If somebody is coming outside to attack you, the kṣatriya kings will immediately come out and with sword they will give you protection. And because the kṣatriya gives you protection, therefore you give him some tax. Unless the governor or the government does not give you protection, they have no place to tax. That is not. That is illegal. Therefore kṣatriya can levy tax because he gives protection. And a brāhmaṇa, he elevates the society to spiritual standard. Then simply protection and advancing in spiritual life will not do. We must have food also. So that is vaiśya's business. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg 18.44]. The vaiśyas should produce food. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. Unless people eat, how they will live? Simply becoming king for levying tax and simply becoming brāhmaṇa to teach how to worship, but if you have no food, then what you will do? There must be arrangement for food. That is entrusted to the vaiśyas. In this way this is classification. Not by birth one becomes brāhmaṇa, and working less than a śūdra, and he is still brāhmaṇa. This is nonsense. One must be Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The society is divided. According to the quality, he is working accordingly.



*So this is the Vedic society. Now it is all lost. But if you revive it, people will be happy, if you can revive it. There is no difficulty. But unfortunately, in this age everyone has become śūdra, so it is little difficult to raise them again. But if everyone is engaged in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then everything is possible. Without chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they are all fallen. Artificially you cannot raise them to the standard of living. That is not possible. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. They must be cleansed of the dirty things within the heart, and then it will. That is the instruction we are going... This man is falling down, and how he will be elevated by chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa. That is the narration we are going to have. Now, how he is fallen down, now, that is now being described. And how he'll be raised, that will be also described.

*So now it is falling down. His business... He has got family, wife, children, and he requires money because the economic development, economic impetus, begins from this family affection. It is fact. Nobody would earn money. Therefore, if one is not married, he does not like to earn money. This is natural. And if he has got family, wife and children, then he will try to earn money. So this man is a rogue, he is sinful, but because still he has got children and wife, therefore he has to earn money. But because he is sinful, he cannot earn money honestly. Yatas tataś ca upaninye. Yena tena prakāreṇa: "Bring money. Somehow or other, bring money." Yatas tataś ca upaninye nyāyataḥ anyāyataḥ. Nyāyataḥ means legally, lawfully. Nyāya means law. Anyāyataḥ, "without legal..." Just like we can earn money by stealing, but that is anyāyataḥ. You cannot touch others' property. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam [Īśo mantra 1]. This is Vedic instruction. Whatever you are allotted you can "A brāhmaṇa, you can earn like this. A kṣatriya, you can earn like this. A vaiśya, you can earn like this." But don't encroach upon others' property. But he became sinful, yena tena prakāreṇa. Nyāyataḥ anyāyataḥ. Nyāyataḥ is finished because he was a brāhmaṇa. No more he is brāhmaṇa. So anyāyataḥ, simply unlawfully. Anyāya. Why? Babhāra, maintaining, asyāḥ kuṭumbinyāḥ, the family members, wife and children. Kuṭumbaṁ manda*-dhīr ayam. Manda-dhīḥ. Manda means very bad, very bad intelligence. In this way he began to earn his money and gradually he degraded and that will be described, how he became degraded.

*So beginning, his degradation, is the association. He was a brāhmaṇa, but by chance he became associated with a prostitute. So this association is very, very important. By association... Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. If you associate with good association, then you become good. And if you associate with bad association, then you become bad. Therefore we are establishing Kṛṣṇa conscious society. A Kṛṣṇa conscious man cannot be bad. Therefore, if people are given chance to associate with this society, automatically he'll become good. Otherwise there is no need of opening so many centers all over the world. But the idea is that to give the chance of good association. Therefore, those who are members of this society, they should be ideal. Simply by their association people will become good, very good responsibility. And if they become bad themselves, there is no possibility because we are giving instruction. We are behaving like that. Still, one becomes bad*-oḥ, that is very great misfortune. Therefore all our members, the members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, should be ideal. At least people may see that "Here is a class of men-ideal character, ideal behavior, spiritual advanced, and very frugal and very nice." That is... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. That is natural. If one becomes a devotee... That is the certificate, that how one has achieved good qualities. That is the test of becoming a devotee. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. A devotee means he has, what is called, awakened all the good qualities. The good qualities are there. Because we are part and parcel of God, there is no bad quality in our constitutional position. We are godly. We may be small, but the same quality. So there cannot be originally. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. This is Vedic instruction. A living entity means spiritually part and parcel of God. There cannot be any bad quality. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna said to Kṛṣṇa that pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "You are the most pure." So how His part and parcel can be impure? Gold may be a small particle, gold, but it is gold. It cannot be otherwise. Similarly, we, being Mamaivāṁśaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are My living beings. They are My part and parcel." So there cannot be any bad thing. The bad thing is because we have accepted this material body.

*So in order to come back to our original position-completely good, no bad thing*-we must come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise we are gone; we are condemned. This is the purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to bring him again to the platform of complete goodness.

Thank you very much. (end)



750903SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.67

-

Vṛndāvana, September 3, 1975



Prabhupāda:



yad asau śāstram ullaṅghya

*svaira*-cāry-ati-garhitaḥ

avartata ciraṁ kālam

aghāyur aśucir malāt

[SB 6.1.67]



Degradation. The first degradation is undesirable association, the first degradation; then no more respect for scriptural injunction, second degradation; *and then the third step, aghāyur aśuciḥ, you become infected with the low*-grade quality. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. The first grade qualification is sattva-guṇa, second rajo-guṇa, and the third, tamo-guṇa. So they believe in the evolution. Now, in this human form of life, what is further evolution? The further evolution is that if you are keeping in sattva-guṇa, in goodness, then you can be promoted, elevated, to the higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. And if you keep yourself in the rajo-guṇa, then you will keep within this Bhurloka. And if you are infected with the tamo-guṇa, then you again go to lower grade life, again animal life, plant life. This is the nature's process. You cannot avoid it. You may be very much proud falsely, but after death, after giving up this body, you are completely... You are already completely under the regulative principle of nature. You cannot violate even. But if you foolishly violate, then you are preparing your next life according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1].



*So this man, Ajāmila, by his association with the prostitute, he degraded. Therefore it is the duty of the guardians, of the government, of the father, to protect the civilization from degradation. But nobody cares for that. Therefore, at the present moment, everything is chaotic. They are degraded. Prostitution is allowed freely, bad association, and they are encouraging by opening liquor shop, brothel, restaurant, meat*-eating. So how you can expect a very nice civilization? That is not possible. We are suffering the consequence of our own degraded life. So how we can protect ourself from degradation? The śāstra is there. Śāstra, the scriptures, are there. Never mind whatever scriptures you have got-Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddha, or any. Every religion has got scripture. Just like the Christians have got Bible, the Muslims have got Koran, and Hindus, they have got Vedas. They should abide by the injunction of the śāstra. Lord Kṛṣṇa also recommends that you must follow the sastric injunction.

So Kṛṣṇa says,

*yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na siddhim avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



*If you do not follow the injunction of the śāstra, then your human life is unsuccessful. Na siddhim. Human life means that you stop the process of transmigration from one body to another. That is human life mission. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. One should endeavor in such a way that you do not take again birth in this material world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Because as soon as you accept any material body, either the material body of Lord Brahmā or the material body of an ant, most inignificant, the trouble is there. You will have to suffer. You cannot escape it. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Irresponsibly, we, if we act, pramattaḥ, like madman, without following the sastric injunction... That is a madman. Just like a madman does not care for any instruction. He acts according to his own whim. That is described here: svaira*-cāri. Svaira-cāri. Svaira-cāri means "I will act according to my whims. I don't care for any authority." That is called svaira-cāri. No. The laws are meant for human beings. Even on the street, as soon as you go out on the street, immediately the law is there: "Keep to the right. Keep to the left." And if you violate, immediately you'll be punished, immediately become criminal. Similarly... This is government law. Similarly, law given by the Supreme Lord.



*So we must follow the rules and regulations as given by God. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Religion means the law which is given by God, and if you follow, then your life is successful. This is religion. Religion is not that concocted, you manufacture some religion. That is not religion. Just like you cannot manufacture law. The law is given by the state, by the government. That is law. Similarly, religion means the law given by God. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the real religion means sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Don't manufacture concocted religion, this samāj, this religion, that, all nonsense. The only religion is how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is religion. But nobody will surrender to God, and they will manufacture religion. So what is the meaning? Therefore Bhāgavata has rejected all this cheating type of religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. Religion means for the paramhaṁsa. Paramo nirmatarāṇāṁ. Nirmatsarā. Matsarāta means envious. Everyone is envious of his friend, of his neighbor, even of his father or son. This is material nature. So this bhāgavata-dharma is meant for the first-class nonenvious person, because everyone is envious, and the enviousness begins by envying Kṛṣṇa or God. Then other enviousness begins. And he becomes svaira-carī, living whimsically. This kind of living is condemned herewith. Aghāyuḥ. Aghāyuḥ means sinful life. Āyuḥ means life; *agha means sinful life. Aghāyur aśuciḥ, impure. Malāt. Malāt means material infection, especially rajo*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, dirty things. So one is expected to go above these dirty things. Dirty things means greediness and lusty desires. These are dirty. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. Rajas-tamaḥ, these are the dirty qualities, and sattva-guṇa is pure quality, and you have to go above sattva-guṇa. Then your life is perfect. Even if you rise, elevate yourself to sattva-guṇa, means a pure brahminical stage-śama dama sataṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavaṁ, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]-still, you have to go further, śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. Then you can understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

*So this devotional service means to go above sattva*-guṇa. Sa guṇṇ samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. You have to transcend all the material qualities, even sattva-guṇa. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava is above sattva-guṇa. So his brahminical qualities is supposed to be included. A Vaiṣṇava is already a brāhmaṇa. We give a Vaiṣṇava the sacred thread, the mark of becoming a brāhmaṇa, because without becoming a brāhmaṇa, nobody can come to the platform of Vaiṣṇava. That is the idea. Nobody should come to the platform of śuddha-sattva without being elevated to the sattva-guṇa platform. So this man... Sattva-guṇa... He was already sattva-guṇa. He was son of a brāhmaṇa. He was being trained up very nicely. But because it was not śuddha-sattvata, therefore he fell down, even on the sattva-guṇa platform. But when one is on the śuddha-sattva... Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. This man was brahminically qualified, but as soon as he saw that a śūdrāṇī and śūdra were engaged in lusty affairs, he fell down. But see the behavior of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Because he was situated on the śuddha-sattva-guṇa and... Although he was young man, one, another young prostitute came to deviate him, and he remained in his position. Rather, he converted the prostitute to become a devotee. This is the difference between sattva-guṇa and śuddha-sattva-guṇa. If you keep yourself on the śuddha-sattva-guṇa, then you will be able to convert others to become devotees. Therefore it is not difficult. It is very easy also.

Kṛṣṇa says,

māṁ cavyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*This brahma*-bhūyāya means śuddha-sattva. Śuddha-sattva. That is also, in śuddha-sattva-guṇa, that is liberated stage. If you do not stick to devotional service, then there is chance of fall down also. So without taking to the devotional service, life is very, very risky. Risky means now we can dance and laugh because we have got this human form of life. But after death we do not know. We do not know unless we are very much cautious. That is... Here it is said aghāyuḥ. Aghāyuḥ. This Ajāmila lived for more than eighty-eight years, but what is the use of prolonged life? Aghāyuḥ. Just like trees, they are standing for thousands of years. Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti [SB 2.3.18] . You are trying to prolong your life by scientific method, but what is the use of such life? This material life, there is suffering. Just like the tree. It does not do any harm to anyone. Rather, it is very hospitable. It gives shelter to the people. They are taking fruits, they are taking branches, leaves, sometimes cutting. They are very harmless, but still, there is harm, suffering. Must stand there for five thousand years and scorching heat and pinching winter, storm, and sometimes fall down. The suffering is there. Even we become a nonviolent... Even Gandhi. He was nonviolent, very moralist. Still he was killed. Just see. This is material world. He was killed by bullet. So the material world means suffering. So what is the use of making a prolonged life? Prolonged suffering. Therefore it is said, aghāyuḥ. If you live for a moment as a devotee, your life is successful. And if you live for many thousands of years without any Kṛṣṇa consciousness-aghāyuḥ, useless life, useless. Aghāyur aśucir malāt, because the desire is there, kāma and lobha, greediness and lusty desire.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important, scientific movement. Take to it. Stick to the principles. Don't live uselessly like a tree or cats and dogs. They have also sense pleasure. It is not that because in human life we have got full opportunity for sense pleasures... Well, sense pleasure is offered to the monkeys and pigs and dogs more leniently. So that is means that is life? No. That is not life. This has been discussed in the *Śrīmad Bhāgavatam*. Bhastrāḥ kiṁ na śvasanty uta, taravo kiṁ na jīvanti. They have been analyzed. No, the real life is Kṛṣṇa conscious life. That is success of life. So some way or other, you have come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa conscious life. Stick to the principle carefully. Don't fall down. Then try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750904SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.1.68

-

Vṛndāvana, September 4, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*tata enaṁ daṇḍa*-pāṇeḥ

*sakāśaṁ kṛta*-kilbiṣaṁ

*neṣyāmo 'kṛta*-nirveśaṁ

yatra daṇḍena śuddhyati

[SB 6.1.68]



So without obeying the instruction of the śāstra, he has fallen down. Although he was born in the brāhmaṇa family and educated nicely, but on account of bad association he fell down from the standard of human ideal life. Therefore he is punishable. Not only he, every one of us. The human fom of life is specially meant for going back to home, back to Godhead. The animal life... By progressive evolution, they come to the human form of life, and when one is, the living entity is on the platform of human form of life, he has got his responsibility. Therefore śāstra says,



*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujām ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet

*sattvaṁ yasmād brahma*-saukhyam anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*This is the responsibility of human life. This human life is not meant for working day and night like the dogs and hogs for sense gratification. At the present moment it is going on all over the world. Simply for sense gratification, they are working so hard. From hundred miles they are going to the working place, hanging on the Delhi passenger train. Sometimes there is accident. These things are going on, very hard labor like the asses. So this is also another punishment. The more punishment is awaiting, Yama*-daṇḍa, at the court of Yamarāja. Not only they are suffering here, but they will be taken to the Yamarāja. And there, according to his work, abominable work, he will be punished. Therefore the Yamadūtas said, tata enaṁ daṇḍa-pāṇeḥ sakāśaṁ kṛta-kilbiṣaṁ neṣyāmaḥ. "Now it is our duty." Just like police force, they are engaged to arrest the criminals and take him to the court or to the police officer for necessary action, so these Yamadūtas, they have given sufficient reason that "This man has committed sinful life; therefore he is punishable."



*So, the fact is, this is nature's law. Nature's law is that if the human being does not follow the injunction of the śāstra and he acts whimsically, independently, then he becomes punishable, exactly in the state laws, if you violate the laws... You are not independent. If you violate the laws, you'll be punished. Similarly, dharma means the laws of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. So if you violate the laws of God, the principles of dharma, then you will be punished. What is that principle of dharma? This Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We have manufactured so many different types of religious faith, but they are man-manufactured. They are not laws. And now it is being supported by many so-called swāmīs, that "You can manufacture your own religion. It doesn't matter. Whatever nonsense type of religion you follow, you get the same result." This is going on. But that is not the fact. Dharma is that, only one. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. To surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is real dharma. And what of others? They are cheating. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of religion is rejected.

*So we cannot violate the laws of God, or dharma. Then we'll be punished. The punishment is there, awaiting, by the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. The laws of nature is to punish you. So long you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, the laws of nature will go on punishing you*-three kinds of miserable conditions: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. This is the law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. You are thinking independent, but that is not the fact. We are dependent, completely dependent on the laws of nature. And laws of nature means laws of God. What is prakṛti? Prakṛti is acting under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a police constable is working under the direction of magistrate or superior office, similarly, prakṛti is giving us various types of miserable condition of life directed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Under My superintendence the laws of nature is working." And what is the laws of nature? That in the human form of life, if you do not endeavor to understand what is God, what you are, what is your relationship with God, what is your duty-these things, if you do not learn, then you are punishable immediately.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāvchā kare

pasate māyāra tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



As soon as you forget Kṛṣṇa and you want to act independently, then immediately you are captured by māyā and you are punished.



So when you come to this senses, that "I am punished by māyā on account of my forgetting Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *therefore my duty is to come back again to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be saved from the punishment of the material nature," that is human duty. You cannot say that "I don't want Kṛṣṇa consciousness." If you don't want, then you must suffer. If you want to save yourself from suffering, then you must take to Kṛṣṇa. It is a question of "must." It is not your option. Your option is there. Because you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, you have got little independence. But if you misuse that independence, then you are punishable. You cannot. Just like everyone has got little independence to violate the laws of the state. You can do that, but that is punishable. So if we take the risk of being punished, then we can violate the laws of nature or laws of God. The laws of God is very simple thing. It is not very difficult. God personally says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Just always think of Me." So it is not at all difficult. Kṛṣṇa is here. You see the Deity of Kṛṣṇa. Have impression in your heart how Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma is standing, how Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa is standing, how Gaura-Nitai is standing. So you can think always. Man-manā. Or you can think of Him by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? Man-manā. You become devotee, come here in the temple, offer your respect. So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is not at all difficult. But people will not take to it; therefore they must suffer. This is the law.

*So here the same thing is stated, tata enaṁ daṇḍa*-pāṇeḥ sakāśaṁ kṛta-kilbiṣam: "He has acted sinfully; *therefore he is punishable, and he must be taken to the Yamarāja." Neṣyāmo akṛta*-nirveśam. Nirveśam means... Suppose I have committed some sins. I must be arrested. Sometimes a great criminal voluntarily goes to the police and surrenders because he knows, "I will be arrested, and if I surrender immediately, my punishment may be lesser." So you cannot escape the punishment. So punishment... Suppose you have stolen something. You must be punished for six months' imprisonment. That is the law. If you have killed somebody, then you must be killed. You must be hanged. This is the law. So that is called nirviśeṣam, to counteract. If I have stolen some property, then I must suffer imprisonment. This is counteracting, prāyaścitta. If you have infected some disease, then you must suffer for some time from that disease. So akṛta-nirveśam: "So he has not neutralized his sinful activities." Yatra daṇḍena śuddhyati: "Because he has not nullified his sinful activities by atonement or other measures, then he must be punsihed. Then he will be purified."

*So punishment is also purification. Purification. Same law: If you infect some disease, then you must get that disease and you must suffer from that disease. That is your punishment. Therefore you should be very much careful not to infect any disease. Similarly, don't infect the material qualities, rajo*-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Remain in sattva-guṇa and try to elevate yourself from sattva-guṇa to transcendental stage, brahma-bhūtaḥ. Then life is successful. Otherwise we shall be repeatedly punished so long we have got the tendency to enjoy material happiness and get another body, one after another. We shall be punishable by the Ya mache piche. It is the Bengali poetry. It is said, kṛṣṇa nāma koro bhāi (end)



SB 6.2: Lectures





710106SB.CAL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.1-5

-

Calcutta, January 6, 1971



Prabhupāda: ...authorized is Śukadeva Gosvāmī. You haven't got to sit here.



*evaṁ te bhagavad*-dūtā

yamadūtābhibhāṣitam

upadhāryātha tān rājan

*pratyāhur naya*-kovidāḥ

[SB 6.2.1]



*So the speeches of the Yamadūta, assistants of Yamarāja, was thus finished, arguments. The argument was that "This man, Ajāmila, born of a brāhmaṇa father, although acquired all qualification... He was qualified brāhmaṇa, not simply born of a brāhmaṇa father, but qualified brāhmaṇa, with full knowledge of Vedic instruction, nice character, very gentle and silent and offering respects to elderly persons, spiritual master, father. In this way he was perfect brāhmaṇa. But due to his contact with a prostitute he lost his all good qualification. And later on, he had to earn money by hook and crook, and thus he degraded more and more, and therefore his sinful activities are now responsible for his punishment, and we shall take him to the court of Yamarāja." That was the summary of the speech of the Yamadūta. Evaṁ te bhagavad*-dūtā yamadūtābhibhāṣitam.



*So after finishing that speech, the bhagavad*-dūta... So there are bhagavad-dūta also, assistants, servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are two kinds of servants: the māyā's servant and Kṛṣṇa's servant. Nobody is master. That is illusion. Everyone is servant. Every living entity is a servant. As enunciated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa: [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109] "The real constitutional position of the living entity is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." When he does not render service to Kṛṣṇa, under false prestige... Just like somebody says, "The Vaiṣṇava religion is slave mentality." "Vaiṣṇava religion is slave mentality. They want to be servant." But the rascals do not that (think) "What you have gained by master mentality?" You are simply servant of your senses. But they criticize that Vaiṣṇava is a slave men. Everyone is slave. Somebody is slave of the senses, and somebody is slave of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is master. That is illusion. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. The slaves of the senses, they are following the dictation of the senses, and abominable activities they are doing. Just like Ajāmila. He was a brāhmaṇa. He was a slave of Nārāyaṇa, a slave of Kṛṣṇa, brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. Brāhmaṇa means... A brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, means he is a Vaiṣṇava. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ paśyanti sadā sūrayaḥ. Sura. Brāhmaṇas' another name is sura. So those who are suras, those who are demigods, they are Vaiṣṇava. They are always ready to render service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But by false prestige, when one tries to become master... Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. A master is supposed to be the supreme enjoyer of the establishment. But actually nobody is the enjoyer. Kṛṣṇa is the only enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor. So when we forget this relationship with Kṛṣṇa, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then he becomes servant of the senses, or māyā. So by becoming servant of the senses he follows the dictation of the master senses and goes down to the darkest region of illusion and becomes subject to the punishment of Yamarāja. This is the substance.

So intelligent persons... That we find, the statements of a brāhmaṇa, that he says, "My dear Lord, I was so long servant of my senses and I followed their dictation even though it was very, very abominable." Sometimes our conscience bids, "Don't do this," but due to our lust and greediness we do something which is abominable. Kṛṣṇa is there within our heart. He also gives sometimes dictation, "Don't do it"; *still, we do. So kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. If the master says something "You do it," if it is good, that's all right. But if it is bad, even though I have to do because I have accepted the servitude, oh, that is very abominable. That is śūdras. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras... Śūdra*-karma svabhāva-jam. The śūdras are meant for obeying the orders of the master. So sometimes it happens; the master says, "You do this, you do that," which is not very good. The servant has to act. So the intelligent brāhmaṇa says, "My dear Lord, I have served the senses in so many ways, even though abominable. But, I find, still they are not satisfied, and neither the senses are very kind to me. Because I have served so faithfully, still they are dictating and I am doing." This is my position. So now I have got good sense, that if I am destined to serve, then why not Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I serve the senses? If my position is to serve..." (aside:) Don't do that. "If my position is to serve, and by serving the senses I am going to the darkest regions of darkness, oh, why shall I serve the senses?"

*So bhagavad-dūta. The bhagavad-dūta means they are in right constitutional position. So you all become bhagavad-dūta, bhagavad-dūta, messenger of God. That is perfection of life. Otherwise you shall be obliged to become the servant of the senses. Go-dāsa and gosvāmī. The bhagavad-dūtas are gosvāmī, and the servants of the senses are go-dāsa. Unfortunately the go-dāsas are claiming to be gosvāmīs. That is the cause of falldown of Indian Vedic civilization. One has to become gosvāmī. Gosvāmī means refuse to follow the dictation of the senses. Simply he has to follow the dictation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That dictation comes through the paramparā system. Kṛṣṇa dictated Arjuna, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If you follow Arjuna, then you (are) in directly contact with Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. The dictation comes through disciplic succession. Now Kṛṣṇa is teaching to His disciple, Arjuna. Arjuna accepted, śiṣyas te 'ham: [Bg. 2.7] "Just now I become Your disciple." Śiṣya means one who voluntarily accepts the ruling of a spiritual master. He is called śiṣya. Nobody wants to follow the dictation of others*-that is another independent nature of living entity-but when one voluntarily agrees to serve the dictation of the spiritual master..., means to follow the dictation of Kṛṣṇa... Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt. Kṛṣṇa says, "Ācārya is My self." Nāvamanyeta karhicit: "Never disobey." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta: "And do not think him as ordinary person and become envious of his position." Then there is fall down. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit, na martya-buddhyāsūyeta [SB 11.17.27].

*So this dictation of Kṛṣṇa comes through the disciplic success, and if we follow the instruction of ācārya, or spiritual master, then we are directly following the orders of Kṛṣṇa, and thus I become a bhagavad*-dūta. No more I am the dūta or the follower of the dictation of my senses. And one who is bhagavad-dūta, he is called gosvāmī, just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. Whose life is dedicated to follow the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, they are gosvāmī. Gosvāmī is not a caste title, just like it has become in India. Gosvāmī... Rūpa Gosvāmī was a minister. He was rejected by the brāhmaṇa society, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him gosvāmī. He is the original gosvāmī. Why? Because he gave up the dictation of Nawab Shah but he followed the dictation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore he became gosvāmī, prabhupāda. He became prabhupāda. Prabhupāda means the title or the respect which is given to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called... Prabhu means master and pāda means maryādā, or the respect or the distinction. So bhagavad-dūta, those who are strictly following the dictation of Kṛṣṇa under strict disciplinary chain of disciplic succession, he is Kṛṣṇa's representative and he should be given all the respect. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. That is the verdict of all śāstras.

And those who are actually Vaiṣṇava, they follow this instruction.

*evaṁ te bhagavad*-dūtā

yamadūtābhibhāṣitam

upadhāryātha tān rājan

*pratyāhur naya*-kovidāḥ

[SB 6.2.1]



*Naya*-kovidāḥ. Naya-kovidāḥ means nyāya-nipuṇa. Bhagavad-dūtas, those who are gosvāmīs, they place everything with nyāya, or logic. Their instructions are not blind, dogmatic. Naya-kovidāḥ. Everything, what is said by Kṛṣṇa or His representative, they are not dogmas. Those who are not representative of Kṛṣṇa, they will say simply dogmas. Just like in every religion there is a dogma. But in bhāgavata religion, bhāgavata-dharma, there is no dogma. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's bhāgavata-dharma, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta's author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, says, therefore, that caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Vicāra means you just try to understand the gift of Lord Caitanya by logic, vicāra. Don't follow blindly. Following blindly something, that is not good. That will not stay. But one should take everything with logic. But the servants of God, they put everything in logic. Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. If you study the Caitanya's philosophy with logic and argument... Don't go by sentiment. The so-called missionary, they're simply bogus propaganda without any logic. Without any logic. Just like some missionary people are propagating a man to become God. How a man can become God? There must be evidences how God incarnates. Not that somebody by worshiping a demigod becomes God. So many false propaganda is going on. That is not logical at all. So one should be intelligent to understand the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa or philosophy of Lord Caitanya with logic and argument. Don't follow blindly. But once you accept, you cannot argue. You have to accept blindly. But before accepting, you take to logic. But when you accept, then don't go back. Then that is falldown. Naya-kovidāḥ.



viṣṇudūtā ūcuḥ

*aho kaṣṭaṁ dharma*-dṛśām

adharmaḥ spṛśate sabhām

yatrādaṇḍyeṣv apāpeṣu

daṇḍo yair dhriyate vṛthā



*Now, he is regretting that "If the court is contaminated..." Court, everyone goes to the court to receive justice. But if the court is itself polluted, then how people will live? That has become the practice in the Kali-yuga. Anardhyena nyāya-rahitam.(?) In Kali-yuga, if you have no money, then you will not be able to get justice. Anardhyena nyāya-rahitam. As soon as you go to the court, immediately you'll have to appoint a pleader and pay him at least seventy-five rupees and then stamp duty, this and that, so many things-then bribe. Then bribe. You give bribe to this man, you give bribe to that man. Suppose you actually want some money from somebody. He has taken money, he is not paying, or something else. So you have to push good money after bad money. So money which is due from others-he is not paying*-that has become a bad money. Good money means which is in your hand. That is good money. And if you are simply speculating that "I shall get this money from that person. I shall get this money from...," that is bad money. So there is an English proverb, perhaps you know all, "To push good money after bad money." So therefore sometimes intelligent persons, they do not go to the court because he knows that money which is not being paid... Before entering into agreement you should be very clever so that your money may not be bad money which you are advancing. But if somehow or other it has become bad money, don't try to put good money. Let that bad money go to hell. So better nowadays not to go to the court as far as possible. But you should deal with people in such a way... Just like I was advising you, just find out a respectable transporter, because the time is very bad. Otherwise it will become a bad money. You go for cheap thing, that "He will carry my goods free," but he will throw it away. Somebody will take away. Then your whole profit is gone. You should be very careful. And if you have to go to court, then it is still more bad. You see?



*So we have to be very careful. The age is very bad, the Kali*-yuga. You are experiencing. We have to simply take shelter of Kṛṣṇa and always cry,

kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, he!

kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, he!

kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, rakṣa mām!

kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, pāhi mām!

kṛṣṇa, keśava, kṛṣṇa, keśava, kṛṣṇa, keśava, rakṣa mām!

rāma rāghava, rāma rāghava, rāma rāghava, pāhi mām!



*Like that, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us. The time is very dangerous. And still, in this dangerous time... Just like in epidemic condition where every people is being contaminated and dying, still, the doctors appointed by the government, they have to go into the epidemic area and try to treat the person and save them. Our duty is like that. The whole atmosphere is epidemic, whole atmosphere, this Kali*-yuga. And still, by the superior orders we have to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore our only shelter is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, rakṣa mām. Very dangerous position. The foolish people, they are thinking that "We are very happy and we are very safe." But nobody is safe. Nobody is safe. So we have to deal with persons very carefully, and at the same time, we have to push our missionary activities. Aho kaṣṭaṁ dharma-dṛśām.



*So they are saying, dharma*-dṛśāṁ sabhām, sabhā, sabhām adharmaḥ spṛśate: "If in the court of justice these false things are bribing and without money nobody can get justice, these things happen, it becomes very troublesome."

*aho kaṣṭaṁ dharma*-dṛśām

adharmaḥ spṛśate sabhām

yatrādaṇḍyeṣv apāpeṣu

daṇḍo yair dhriyate vṛthā



Sabhāṁ yatra sabhāyam, vaidharma dhigbhiḥ esam tan saha.(?) "If the people who are administering justice, they become irreligious, impious, oh, how troublesome situation!" is the first acclamation. Then he says,



prajānāṁ pitaro ye ca

śāstāraḥ sādhavaḥ samāḥ

yadi syāt teṣu vaiṣamyaṁ

kaṁ yānti śaraṇaṁ prajāḥ



*"The citizens, they are just like innocent children, and the government is to be supposed as the father. So small children, they are completely dependent on father with full faith: 'My father is there. My mother is there.' And if the father and mother become contaminated, then where is the position of the children?" If the whole government is polluted, then what is the position of the citizens? Just see. There is so*-called government, millions of rupees they are spending and taking salary, government house, but the prajā, they have no security for their life income. Just see the position. So that is said here. Prajānāṁ pitaro ye ca śāstāraḥ sādhavaḥ samāḥ. How impartial they should be, how competent they should be to give protection to the citizens. And if they are polluted, if they are incapable and such government is there, then it is just like... Yadi syāt teṣu vaiṣamyaṁ kaṁ yānti śaraṇaṁ prajāḥ. Then what is the condition of the citizens? Where they will go for protection?



*That is the position now. This is called Kali*-yuga. They have no other shelter. Now, these people are so frightened of their life and property; *still, they cannot go to the... But it will happen in this age. Ācchinna*-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. Due to this rascal government people will be so much embarrassed that ācchinna-dāra-draviṇāḥ: they will be separated from their wife, children, and money, and they will go to the forest. This will happen. They will go to the forest. Nobody wants to leave the company of wife, children, and property, but people will be forced. Just like we have seen already in the time of partition, the Muslims and Hindus. The Hindus were going away, and the Muslims were also going away. Nobody was happy, but the partition was made, and this was accepted as India's independence. This is called māyā. They are going to be more dependent, more and more, and still, it was accepted as independence.

yad yad ācarati śreyān

itaras tat tad īhate

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate



*If the head..., the heads of the society, whatever they do, general people follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreyān. Śreyān means the leading personality. Yad yad ācarati śreyān itaras tat tad īhate. And the general public, they follow them. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. What the leaders accept as good, the general public they also accept so. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute lokas tad anuvartate. Pitaraḥ. Pitṛ iva pālakaḥ. Now, here the government or the king is compared with the father. That is the position of father. Just like a father will never tolerate the killing of his child before him. He will give his own life. He will try to attack that person who has killed his child and give his own life: "I do not like to live." That is the position of government. But they are silent. They're silent. This is Kali*-yuga. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute lokas tad anuvartate.



yasyāṅke śira ādhāya

lokaḥ svapiti nirvṛtaḥ

svayaṁ dharmam adharmaṁ vā

na hi veda yathā paśuḥ



*Just like if you put your head on some friend's lap and you sleep very nicely without any care, but the man on whose lap you are putting your head, if he is ungrateful*-he is not faithful; *he wants to cut your throat*-then what is your position? This is going on.



*So it is very nice discussion, very well, by the bhagavad*-dūtas. These are the speeches of the bhagavad-dūta, not of the māyā's dūta. Māyā-dūta will say, "Oh, this is all right. This is all right." But this is the speech of the bhagavad-dūta. Try to understand.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*Revatīnandana: [break] ...the forest in Kali*-yuga



*Prabhupāda: Just to take shelter to save their life-because one's own life is first consideration. "Self-preservation is the first law of nature." So when there is danger, people will give up their wife and property and go. Just like people are going. Yes. This will happen. In European countries also, when there was war, so many refugees. I have got one... I have heard. One Mr. McPherson, Englishman, he was known to me. He was coming to my shop. He stated that in the First World War, he was in the war, service, and some Belgium refugees came to France because Marshall Fox, he was in charge of that area, and when he was informed that so many refugees, mostly women and children, they have come, so he became so much disturbed that "Where shall I give them shelter in this warfield?" His advice was that "Blow them. Finish." So they were blown up. This is a practical... In warfield such things happen. "Who is going to take responsibility of so many women and children in this war?" They were blown up. They came to take shelter but they were blown up. Such things happen in war. Yes. Just like in your country the real policy*-to continue the Vietnam-means they cannot manage these hippies, and they are trying to send them to Vietnam and kill them. That's all. That is the policy. They cannot manage. They cannot make them sane and normal condition. They have no such policy, neither they do know it. So what to do? "Blow him. We cannot manage them." Therefore they are continuing. That's all. This is the policy. Do you think? Eh? What do you think? This is my suggestion. "Unwanted persons, let them be finished." Just like this Marshall Fox did. "Unwanted refugees? Blow them." And killing and blowing, oh, this is very easy thing for the animal-eaters, for the maintainers of slaughterhouse. I hear that these Naxalites have taken to slaughterhouse to learn how to kill. Do you know that? Somebody was telling. Yes. Your husband was telling. So these Naxalites, they are taken to the slaughterhouse and they are taught how to kill. Therefore they do not care. Immediately beating by rocks, and as soon as he falls down, they go away, just like slaughterhouse. They are taught. And the military men, they are also taught like that, to become cruel. A very horrible position in this Kali-yuga. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa-nāma koro bhāi āra saba mithyā. You take shelter of Kṛṣṇa; otherwise so many things will happen. (re: tape recorder:) So stop it. (end)





750905SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.1

-

Vṛndāvana, September 5, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*śrī*-bādarāyaṇir uvāca

*evaṁ te bhagavad*-dūtā

yamadūtābhibhāṣitam

upadhāryātha tān rājan

*pratyāhur naya*-kovidāḥ

[SB 6.2.1]



*So two parties, Yamadūta and the Bhagavad*-dūtā. So this human life is the junction, which way to go, to the Yamadūtas or to the Bhagavad-dūtās. There is no three. Two alternative. In the Bible also it is said, "Either you go to hell or go to heaven." Is it not? This is right. Yamadūta means go to hell, and Bhagavad-dūtā means go to Vaikuṇṭha. This is the junction.



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṛn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Now make your selection. So long we are in the lower animal life, nature is giving chance. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. Then nature brings you in the platform of human life, developed consciousness, and you can take advantage of the śāstra. Anādi bahirmukha kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā. Veda-Purāṇa, why they have been made? It is made for the human being. This is the chance. Veda-Purāṇa is not made for the cats and dogs. They are not supposed to read Veda and Purāṇas. Similarly, if the human being does not take care of the Veda Purāṇas, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā. To revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta-varān nibodhata. This is the Vedic injunction. So long you were in the lower grade of life it was not possible for you to take the path of Vedas and Purāṇas. That was not possible. But now, even if getting the human form of life, if you live for sense gratification like cats and dogs, then the Yamadūta... Yamadūta. Kṛṣṇa nāma kara bhāi āra saba miche, palaye barā kathā naya yo māche piche.(?) These are very easily understandable. You cannot avoid Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. If you avoid, then yo māche piche*-the Yamadūtas will carry you. You can say, "I can do whatever I like. Why you are forcing me to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? I can do whatever I like. There is no need of your preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am independent. I don't believe in the next life." That is the general statement of the rascals and fools. But the fact is different. If you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Yamadūtas Then you'll be punished. You cannot avoid. You are completely dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and you are the servant. You have declined to serve Kṛṣṇa; *therefore you must be punished. This is the nature's way. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot escape. You can not escape the mundane, man*-made laws, but you cannot the God-made laws. That is not possible.



*So Yamadūtas, they came to take him. Now the Viṣṇudūta... Evaṁ te bhagavad*-dūtā. So Bhagavad-dūtā... Bhagavān is not alone, without any followers. In the Vaikuṇṭhaloka Bhagavān is there in His innumerable forms. There are innumerable Vaikuṇṭhalokas, and in each and every planet there is innumerable devotees. He is not alone. Advaitam acyutam anantam ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. So Yamadūtas As the Yamarāja has got his adherent order-carriers, similarly, in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka there are so many order-carriers. In the Vaikuṇṭhaloka there is no a single person who is not a devotee. That is Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha means... Kuṇṭha means anxiety, and vigata-kuṇṭha iti vaikuṇṭha. There is no anxiety. And the material world means anxiety: "What will happen? What will happen." Even the sparrow, you will see. You give them some grain, they are eating, but they are looking this way, that way: "If somebody is not coming to kill me?" Everyone-full of anxiety. That we are forgetting, that we are trying to remain in this material world very happy, but that is not possible. Anxiety, full of anxiety.

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, hitvātma*-ghātaṁ gṛhaṁ andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśyrayeta. He was asked by his father what was the best thing he had learned. So he said, "I have learned this best thing." What is that? Hitvātma-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: [SB 7.5.5] "This is the first-class thing." What is that? "Now, giving up this gṛha andha-kūpaṁ, gṛhastha life." They are thinking very happy, husband, wife, living together, enjoying. But that is grha andha-kūpam. Andha-kūpam means if you are thrown into the dark well, it is like that. Of course, those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is different thing. But ordinarily, the so-called household life means to be in the darkness, in the dark well. Gṛhānda-kū..., hitva: "One should give up." Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, when one is fifty years old, above that, he must give up family life. No more. Then sannyāsa. Not that up to the point of death one should remain a gṛhastha. No. If he wants to become free from anxiety, that is... Otherwise anxiety. Tat sādhu maye asura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Dehinām, one who has accepted this material body, he must be always restless with anxiety. This is the... Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You cannot avoid it.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you can take it as a religious movement, bhāgavata*-dharma. This is the only dharma, bhāgavata-dharma. Except bhāgavata-dharma, any other dharma, so-called dharma, is cheating. That is not dharma. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat pranītaṁ [SB 6.3.19]. Bhagavat-pranītam, therefore called Bhāgavatam. The word Bhāgavatam comes from the word bhagavat. Bhavārthe sipan.(?) Bhagavad-bhāva iti bhāgavata. So religion means what is given by God. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-pranītam [SB 6.3.19]. You cannot manufacture religion, nonsense, give this dharma, that dharma, that dharma. No. Dharma is only one. That is bhāgavata-dharma. Otherwise there is no dharma. They are all cheating. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. The fight between different religious principles, religious followers-"I am Hindu," "You are Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Buddhist," "My religion is better," "Your religion is bad"-these are all not religion. Real religion is bhāgavata-dharma. In any other religion there is para-hiṁsa. Para-hiṁsa. In the history you will find many instances. In our country I have seen fight between Hindus and Muslims. And in the history you will find Europe, the Prostestants, and the Roman Catholics, and the Crusades. So this kind of religion has no value. Religion means when one understands Kṛṣṇa, or God, he understands automatically that all living entities are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcels. Some way or other, they have been put into this māyā. Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela. They have forgotten. Therefore a devotee tries to bring them back to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, back to home, back to Godhead. This is vision. He has no discrimination that "Here is a Hindu. Here is a Muslim. Here is a Christian. Here is an African. Here is a white. Here is a black." No. "Everyone is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Let them revive their Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy." That is religion. All others cheating.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are pushing on. We have no such distinction. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Not that "They are Europeans. They cannot take to this religion." This is in the andha*-kūpa, andha. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantrya uru-dāmni baddhāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Such class of men are subjected to the punishment by the Yamaduta. Otherwise, paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Paṇḍita, they should be equal. Kṛṣṇa says,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striya śūdrās tatra vaiśyās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*Everyone has got the right to go back to home, back to Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ: "Never mind he is born in the sinful family. That's all right, but he has got the right to go back to home, back to Godhead." And who will take up the work? If everyone has got the right to go back to home, back to Godhead, and by taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa says, "Everyone has got the right." Then who will teach them how to go back to home, back to Godhead? Who is the man? If you say, "No, no, they are untouchable, pāpa-yoni. They are untouchable. They cannot," so that is not the duty.



The duty is, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila jāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Anyone who has taken birth in India, if he's a man... If he's a dog, if he's a cat, that is another. If he's a man... Manuṣya janma haila jāra. So what is his duty? Janma sārthaka kari. First of all awaken your own Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you understand Kṛṣṇa, and then go out, kara para upakāra. Because people are in darkness. People are in darkness. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness meant, not that "I have understood Kṛṣṇa. Now pack it up in the box and see sometimes: 'Oh, I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious.' " My Guru Mahārāja condemned this. He said, mana tumi kisera vaiṣṇava: "My dear mind, you are thinking that you have become a very good Vaiṣṇava and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura, and smoking bidi." This imitation has no value. My Guru Mahārāja condemned it. He said, mana tumi kisera vaiṣṇava: "What a rascal you are. You are thinking that you are Vaiṣṇava." Nirjanera ghare... What is that? I forget now. Tava hari*-nāma kevala kaitava. Pratiṣṭhāra tare, nirjanera ghare, tava hari-nāma kevala kaitava: "My dear mind, you are very much proud of becoming Vaiṣṇava. In a solitary place you are imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura." Nirjanera ghare, pratiṣṭhāra tare: "Your this solitary chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa means that you want cheap popularity-'Oh, he is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " That is not possible. You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. So by imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura, keeping connection with woman and doing all nonsense, you cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You must work. You must go out for chanting, for preaching. This is the real chanting. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa' upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is wanted, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has never said that "You may imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, and in a solitary place, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Bidi, bidi, bidi.' " Not like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Go out."



*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

āmāra ājñāya guru haya tāra' ei deśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



So our request is, you all foreigners, so you have learned something about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. Although He expected that every Indian should go out for parupakāra, but anyway, some of the Indians, at least one... But you take this mission and go everywhere, in every corner. I am thankful to you. You are already doing that, in Europe and America, (people are) deep asleep. Because people are sleeping under misguidance, and they are becoming candidate for being carried away by the Yamadūta. This is the position of the whole world, Yamadūta. Palaye barā kathā naya yo māche piche.(?) Yamāduta will not excuse you, however you may be very proud of becoming independent. This is not possible. To save the human civilization, the rascal civilization, that "There is no life after death, and you go on enjoying as much as you like," this wrong civilization is killing civilization. So you save them. You save them. Otherwise the Yamadūta is there.



*Evaṁ te bhagavad*-dūtā yamadūtābhibhāṣitam, upadhārya. They listened to the words of Yamadūta very carefully, upadhārya, not that haphazardously they heard, no. Their reason, their everything, that "This man was like this, and he must be carried to Yamarāja for punishment..." Why punishment? No, to make him purified, it is said. Punishment required. This is nature's law. Just like if you have infected some disease, the punishment is you must suffer for it. The punishment is good. If you have infected some disease, and when you suffer, that means you become purified from the disease. Suffering is not bad, to become purified. Therefore when a devotee suffers, he does not take it illy. He thinks that "I am being purified. I am being purified."

*tat te 'nukampāṁ su*-samīkṣamāṇo

*bhuñjāna evātma*-kṛtaṁ vipākam

*hṛd*-vāg-vapurbhir vidadhan namas te

*jīveta yo mukti*-pade sa dāya-bhāk

[SB 10.14.8]



*A devotee, when he is in troubled condition, he thinks, "My Lord is so kind that He is purifying me. I am suffering from my past misdeeds. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He is purifying me, giving me little suffering. That's all right. Therefore I must be obliged to Him." And he offers more respectful obeisances to the Lord: "My Lord, You are purifying me." If one lives like this, mukti*-pade sa dāya-bhāk, his liberation is guaranteed.



*Dāya*-bhāk. Dāya-bhāk means just like the son inherits the father's property without any check. Nobody can check. Law is there-"The father's property must be inherited by the son." Similarly, those who are strictly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness despite all kinds of hindrances, his liberation is guaranteed. His liberation is guaranteed. And if he becomes little, immediately disturbed with little inconvenience, and "What is this nonsense, Kṛṣṇa con...? Give it up. Let me enjoy," then he is again in the clutches of māyā. But if one sticks to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in spite of all difficulties, then his liberation, going back to home, back to Godhead, is guaranteed. Mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk. This is the statement of the śāstra. Dāya-bhāk means nobody can check him.

*So we should be very careful to stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness without being agitated or deviated in any circumstances of life. Then we will not be liable to the punishment of Yamadāta. That is the incident happening here. Slightly he became Kṛṣṇa conscious at the end of life and chanted "Nārāyaṇa"*-immediately the Viṣṇu, Bhagavad-dūta came: "Oh, he has chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That's all right. Let him take back home, back to Godhead."

Thank you very much. (end)



750906SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.2

-

Vṛndāvana, September 6, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*śrī*-viṣṇudūtā ūcuḥ

*aho kaṣṭaṁ dharma*-dṛśām

adharmaḥ spṛśate sabhām

yatrādaṇḍyeṣv apāpeṣu

daṇḍo yair dhriyate vṛthā

[SB 6.2.2]



So the conversation between the Yamadūta and Viṣṇudūta... So this material world is for Yamaduta, and the spiritual world is for Viṣṇudūta. We have discussed all these points. So in the material world, more or less, we are susceptible for being punished by the Yamadūtas or Yamarāja, not all. Who are punishable? They are nondevotees, those who are sinful. So anyone who is not following the principles of religion, they are to be punished, because the human form of life is meant for executing religion. Not the animals.



*So if we do not follow religious principle, then we are punishable. You cannot escape. Exactly if you do not follow the state laws, then you are punishable, criminal. Similarly the original law or original controller, the original king is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. These rascals, those who manufacture religion, they do not know that religion can be given by Viṣṇu, and we have to satisfy Viṣṇu. Therefore there is varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas and four āśramas. The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. This is the conception of human civilization, Aryan civilization. There are Aryans and non-Aryans. Aryan means who follow the varṇāśrama-dharma. They are Aryans. In India they were following strictly this varṇāśrama-dharma; *therefore they were Aryans. Not now, formerly they were. Why? By the varṇāśrama*-dharma one can please the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu.

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsaṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



The aim of human life is to satisfy Viṣṇu. That is Vedic civilization.



ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*Saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam. You are brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha... Varnāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ.



*But what is the aim of life? Aim of life is to satisfy the Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu. But they do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. At least at the present moment, nobody knows that he has to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is the aim of life. He does not know. He does not know even what is God. Just like animal. The animal does not know what is God. They are making research what is God, the theosophists, the theologists, making research. God is canvassing, "Here I am." Kṛṣṇa, He comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmi [Bg. 4.7]. When these rascals forget what is God, He comes. And still, they are making research. He is acting as God; He is instructing as God; He is accepted by the ācāryas as God; still, these rascals are searching out God. This is their position. Why you are searching out? Here is God. God says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaṁ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8], aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṇāṁ sa saptasaḥ [Bg 10.2]. And still you are searching God? That is the folly. Even God comes before you, and if you are demon, then you cannot understand what is God.

*Therefore we have to follow the ācāryas. We are ignorant. To become ignorant is not any fault. But when the ignorant thinks that he knows everything, then he's fault. Therefore the ignorant people are advised in the Vedas, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. "So I am ignorant, I am fool, I am rascals. I shall remain like that"? No, that is not human life; *that is animal life. Animal is also ignorant. A dog, he cannot go to a guru. That is not possible. But a human being, he must. Abhigacchet. It must. It is not optional, that "I may go, or I may not." No, you must. That is the injunction. That is the Vedic injunction. Ācārya*-paramparā. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Rājarṣayaḥ. Formerly the king was responsible, responsible king. Responsible government means responsible king. So what is the responsibility of the king? The responsibility that all the citizens, all the inhabitants of the state, they should live very comfortably and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the responsibility of the king. He has to see that everyone is free from anxiety, everyone is feeling secure, everyone has no disease, no mental anxiety, and in peaceful condition they are executing bhāgavata-dharma. That is real dharma, bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means to understand the science of God. That is Bhāgavata. And it is advised, kaumāram ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Kaumāra, from the very boyhood, childhood, one should be instructed and educated about bhāgavata-dharma.

*Dharma means bhāgavata*-dharma. Otherwise it is not dharma; *it is cheating. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa said sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]? Because that is bhāgavata-dharma. Bhagavān is speaking. Therefore, what Bhagavān is speaking, that is in relationship with Bhagavān. Therefore it is called bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata means in relationship with God, or Bhagavān. Bhāgavata-śabda and then Bhāgavata. That is dharma. So bhāgavata-dharma. Dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Dharma does no mean I manufacture at my home some religion and it becomes dharma. No. That kind of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaivato 'tra: "That kind of cheating religion is rejected." Projjhita. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita. That is not religion. Religion is for... Religion means the relationship between Bhagavān and me, or everything. Bhāgavata-dharma. So the Bhāgavata-dharma is spoken by Bhagavān Himself, Bhagavad-gītā. So He says that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The human society must be divided into four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. He says. That is bhāgavata-dharma. If you abolish this, everyone is śūdra, no brāhmaṇa. That brāhmaṇa means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ-guṇa, quality and action, not by birth. He never says, "by birth." Anyone who is qualified... Just like in ordinary life, anyone who is a qualified medical man, he is given the title "doctor," "medical practice," not that a doctor's son is necessarily a doctor. Even if he is a son of a doctor, still, he has to be educated as a medical man, then he will be accepted as doctor. This is bhāgavata-dharma. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. And in another place it is stated, yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ varṇābhivyañjakam. It it said by Nārada Muni to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ proktam. There are symptoms that he has... Here are the symptoms of a brāhmaṇa: satva śama dama titikṣa ārjavaṁ, jñāna-vijñāna āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So then Nārada Muni said that yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ proktam: "In the śāstra, as the symptoms are described, if such symptom," yadi anyatra vidṛśyeta, "if such symptoms are visible in other place," tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35], "if the symptoms of a brāhmaṇa is found in a place, other place than, either in the śūdra family or vaiśya family or kṣatriya family, then he should be accepted as a brāhmaṇa. Similarly if somebody in a brāhmaṇa family, his symptoms are like kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra, then he should be designated like that." So this is bhāgavata-dharma, strictly following the words and the injunction of God. That is bhāgavata-dharma. And that is real dharma.

*So this man deviated from bhāgavata*-dharma. Therefore he was to be arrested by the Yamadūtas for purification. That was his external affair. But by chance, by the grace of the Lord, at the time of his death he chanted "Nārāyaṇa," not exactly meaning the Supreme Lord Nārāyaṇa, but his son's name was Nārāyaṇa. He was thinking that "I am being dragged by the Yamadūta. So my son will save me." Therefore he exclaimed, "Nārāyaṇa, please save me." So he meant his son, but Nārāyaṇa, actual Nārāyaṇa, heard it-"O Nārāyaṇa, please save me." This is the... Nārāyaṇa is so kind that although the name of Nārāyaṇa was called by Ajāmila, meaning his son, still, because he has chanted the name, holy name of Nārāyaṇa, it was immediately taken seriously by Lord Nārāyaṇa, and His order-carriers, the Viṣṇudūtas, were sent to save this man. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt.

*So this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that svalpam apy asya dharmasya, even slightly executed in due time... Because the process is we are educating people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa to practice, so in due time, Hare Kṛṣṇa at the time of death especially, if we can chant this holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. So unless we practice, how it will be possible to chant at the time of death? Because at the time of death the whole system, anatomical*-physiological system, becomes disturbed, in bewilderedness, in coma, in unconsciousness. But still, if one has practiced, there is possibility of chanting the holy name of the Lord, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa. Then that is success of life. In a Bengali there is a proverb, bhajana kara sādhana kara mūrti jānle haya(?), that "Whatever you are executing as a bhajana, sādhana, that's all right, but it will be tested at the time of your death." It will be test. Just like a parrot is chanting, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," but when some cat comes in, "Kaw, kaw, kaw." No. Then missing. So parrot life will not help you. You must be really chanting without any offense. Then it is possibility that at the time of death... Death will be there. You may be very proud of your body, that "I am permanent." No. "As sure as death." And after death you have to change your body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. That we do not know, what kind of body I will enjoy. Now I have got Serji's(?) body. That's all right. But your karma will decide the next body.

*So intelligent person, they should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, kṛṣṇa*-karma, always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Then it is mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. Kṛṣṇa says, "One who is always engaged in My service, activities," Kṛṣṇa says, "he comes back to Me." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So practice that. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This life will be finished, and you do not know what kind of body you are going to get next. The best guarantee is that you execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra constantly, remain pure by following the regulative principles, and satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. Then everything is assured, and your life is successful. At the time of death you go back to home. Just see how Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, is so kind that because he feelingly chanted at the time of his death, "O Nārāyaṇa, please come and save me..." But he was meaning his son. But Kṛṣṇa did not take that. Just like Pūtanā. Pūtanā wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. That was his (her) plan. But Kṛṣṇa, because He sucked the breast of Pūtanā, He took him (her) as His mother. This is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa never takes the bad side. Kṛṣṇa takes always the bright side. Pūtanā, although she came to cheat Kṛṣṇa, but how Kṛṣṇa will cheat? Kṛṣṇa thought that "I have sucked her breast, so she is My mother. She should go to the same place where Yaśodāmayi is going." This is Kṛṣṇa.

*So we should always remember that Kṛṣṇa is very, very kind, and a slight devotional service to Him will please Him, and therefore He is begging, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. What you will give to Kṛṣṇa? He is self*-sufficient. But if you give something to Kṛṣṇa, your life becomes successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750907SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.3

-

Vṛndāvana, September 7, 1975



Prabhupāda:



...am pitaro ye ca

śāstāraḥ sādhavaḥ samāḥ

yadi syāt teṣu vaiṣamyaṁ

kaṁ yānti śaraṇaṁ prajāḥ

[SB 6.2.3]



*So yesterday we discussed that aho kaṣṭaṁ dharma*-dṛśām adharmaḥ spṛśate sabhām. Just like in the court, court of justice, if there is adharma, then it is very painful situation. That is happening now in this Kali-yuga generally. Big, big court justice, magistrate, they are giving favorable judgment, being bribed. This is Kali-yuga. But śāstra says, "No. Justice must be given very honestly." That is the rule.



So about this Ajāmila, these Yamadūtas, they came to take him away to Yamarāja, but the Viṣṇudūtas said, "No. He is not to be taken away. He is now cleansed of all sinful activities. You do not know that; *therefore you are not giving him justice." So yatrādaṇḍyeṣv apāpeṣu daṇḍo yair dhriyate vṛthā: "One who is not punishable, if he is punished, that is injustice. So you should not take him away. He is not punishable." Yamarāja is there for punishing the sinful men. So all of them are not sinful. There are many pious men. Sinful men, they are of small number. So one must be very cognizant of justice. Just like in the prison house the number of prisoners are not greater than the number of free persons. That is natural. Although this material world is mixed*-sinful men and pious men-still, at least formerly, there were sinful men, less. It is said in the śāstra that in Satya-yuga there was no sinful men at all. All pious men. Then, in Tretā-yuga, one-fourth sinful and three-fourth's pious. And then, Dvāpara-yuga, half and half. And now, in the Kali-yuga, one-fourth pious and three-fourth's sinful. And that will also gradually diminish. And when everyone will be sinful, then there is no more preaching. There is Kalki avatāra, simply cutting the head. That's all. What is that verse? That Kalki avatāra... Keśava dhṛta-kalki-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare.

*So at the end of the Kali-yuga people will be so sinful that... It is already becoming. Only five thousand years we have passed, and the number of sinful men is already greater-three-fourth's sinful men, one-fourth pious men-and it will increase, and gradually it will become zero. Everyone shall be, at that time, end of Kali-yuga. That will take four lakhs and 27,000's of years. We have passed only five thousand years. Since the Battle of Kurukṣetra, or since the demise of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the Kali-yuga has begun, and that is five thousand years. And the total duration of life of Kali-yuga is 432,000's of years. That means there is a balance of 427,000's of years to finish this Kali-yuga. And gradually, with the advancement of Kali-yuga, people's duration of life, memory, mercifulness, religious propensities, in this way eight items-they are described in the Śrīmad Bhagavatam-will reduce. We can see practically at the present moment. People are not very strong in body. They are lean and thin. And not only in India*-we are poverty-stricken-but in Europe, America, also I see. The Europeans and Americans are no more as tall men or very stout men, very... So reducing their bodily strength and memory. That is also fact. We cannot memorize very sharply. People are becoming more and more dull. No more very brilliant scholars are coming out, philosophers, mathematicians. And duration of life, everyone knows it is reducing. In India the average duration of life is thirty years. So this will reduce. And dharma, sense of religiosity, that will also reduce and become more and more punishable by the Yamarāja. Yamarāja is there.

*But this Ajāmila was cleansed of all sinful activity because at the time of his death he chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa. That's a fact. When we chant the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, the holy name of God, we immediately become free from all sinful reaction. That's a fact. It is said, eka hari*-nāma yata pāpa hare, pāpi haya tata para kari bare nare(?). This is statement of śāstra: "By once chanting the holy name of the Lord, you become free from all sinful reaction of life." That's a fact. But the difficulty is that we become free; *again we commit sinful life. That is the... Otherwise one chanting in life is sufficient. But that we do not do. We chant and again do the sinful activities. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. This is the greatest offense, that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa; *therefore I can continue to commit sinful activities. It will be adjusted. Balance will be zero." No. This is the greatest offense. Greatest offense. Nāmnad balād. Out of ten offenses, this is the greatest offense. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. So this should not be done.

*So Ajāmila did not do that. He was sinful, but he never utilized Kṛṣṇa to counteract his sinful life. Aparādha-śūnya, without any offense*-that was his qualification. He did not know what is the value of chanting the holy name. He... Fallen down, he became a rogue, rascal. That's all right. But he never utilized the chanting of name for counteracting his sinful activities. No, he never did. He was affectionate to his youngest son, whose name was Nārāyaṇa. So, very much affectionate, youngest son-"Nārāyaṇa, please come here. Take your food. Please drink this milk. Come here. Sit down"-so he was addressing Nārāyaṇa, his son, but it was taken into account by Nārāyaṇa. Therefore it is the system in Hindu families to keep children's name as Nārāyaṇa dāsa, Kṛṣṇa dāsa, Govardhana dāsa, so that one may be able to chant the holy name of the Lord somehow or other. This is the way. So that is the example of Ajāmila. Simply by loving his son of the name Nārāyaṇa, his account was credited in so many times.

*So these Yamadūta, they did not know. So they came to arrest him. But Viṣṇudūta came to save him: "No, no. He is no more sinful. He is free from all sinful life. Don't do injustice." So for They are regretting that aho kaṣṭaṁ dharma*-dṛśām adharmaḥ spṛśate sabhām. "Justice must be done very nicely." Prajānāṁ pitaro ye ca śāstāraḥ sādhavaḥ samāḥ. Prajānām, children, or the citizens, prajā Prajā means who has taken birth, national. Prajānāṁ pitaro. Pitaro means father or anyone who takes the care of the children or the citizen like father. The government or the king-formerly there was king, now government-their position is just like father. As the father's duty is to see that the children, the son, is raised very nicely so that in future he may be very happy. This is the duty of the father, to see, not that simply to feed him and make him fatty. No. In the śāstra it is said, pitā na sa syāt. One should not become a father. This is contraceptive. Pitā na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt: "One should not become a father, one should not become a mother, one should not become a guru, one should not become a relative, one should not become a caretaker, one should not become the king..." Who? Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "One who cannot protect the dependent from the clutches of death." This is sastric injunction. So how much the father and the government or the guru should be strong so that he can save his dependents from the clutches of death.

*So how it is possible? Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. Without becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, nobody can be saved from death. This is the law. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. You can have other benefits from the demigods. There are sastric... There is injunction that "If you want a beautiful wife, you can worship Uma. If you want to be free from disease, you worship the sun*-god. If you want to be very learned, you worship Brahmā, Sarasvatī." There are... That is the injunction, that "If you want this benefit, particular benefit, then you worship this particular." Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. There is injunction. The demigod worship, there is injunction that "You do this." But for whom? For the less intelligent person. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ: [Bg. 7.20] "Except God, the Supreme Lord, when the other demigod worship is allowed, that is for the person, hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who does not know his ultimate goal of life, for them." But one who is interested to stop the cycle of birth and death, they must come to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not possible. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. Kṛṣṇa, Hari, also says, Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ ca yo What is that? What is that verse? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Janma karma me divyam. Kṛṣṇa says that "I appear." Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. "I take birth as the son of Devakī, or I am raised as the son of Mother Yaśodā. So one should understand that ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā: I am aja, I never take birth, but why I come and take birth as a child of Devakī or Yaśodā?" If we simply understand this fact, janma karma me divyaṁ, janati yo tattvataḥ, if anyone understands, then he becomes free from the cycle of birth and death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9].

*So this is possible. Therefore the government, the father, the guru and the guardian*-the everyone should try to make his dependent how he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the duty. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important, because the human life is meant for stopping the cycle of birth and death. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This is the only process. You cannot stop... But they do not know that this birth and death can be stopped. They are so rascal, they are so foolish, that they do not believe, neither they believe in the next birth, neither they have any idea how to stop death or stop next birth. No education. Throughout the whole world there is no education, there is no science. They are callous. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mūḍha.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*This āsuri*-bhava: "What is God? I don't believe in God. There is no God. Every one of us we are God. Why you are finding God anywhere, in the temple? You do not know that in the street there are so many gods, loitering, daridra nārāyaṇa?" This is going on. This is going on, all full of ignorance. Therefore we have to push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement at very difficult position.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti mām

[Bg. 7.3]



Simply by knowing Kṛṣṇa, one can become free from the clutches of cycle of birth and death. That's a fact. But manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. It is very, very difficult.



*So we have taken a very difficult task, to convince people to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But that is the only benefit, or the supreme goal of life. Kṛṣṇa personally comes to teach this science. Why Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad*-gītā? Out of His compassion, that "After My disappearance people would take advantage of this Bhagavad-gītā. As I instructed My dear friend Arjuna, they will also take advantage and become free from the clutches of death." This is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhāgavata-dharma. Unfortunately, people have become so rascal that they do not care for this Bhagavad-gītā instruction. And if anyone poses himself to be a very good scholar of Bhagavad-gītā, he interprets in his own way, he misleads himself and misleads others also. This is the position. Therefore my request to you all who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement-do not be a bluffer. Behave in your life how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and teach others. Then the whole world will be benefited, and the Yamadūta will not come to them.

Thank you very much. (end)



750908SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.4

-

Vṛndāvana, September 8, 1975



Prabhupāda:



yad yad ācarati śreyān

itaras tat tad īhate

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

[SB 6.2.4]



*Very important verse. Ideal class of men therefore needed in the society. Therefore Vedic society is divided*-ideal men: the brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇa, the saintly person, the sannyāsī, the rājarṣi. This is required. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the Bhagavad-gītā was taught to the rājarṣi, not to the third-class men. Rājarṣi, rāja and ṛṣi at the same time. Although king, but they were saintly king, just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, the ideal king. Bhagavān, Rāmacandra, the ideal king, ideal king, so ideal that because some citizen criticized that "Lord Rāmacandara, King Rāmacandra, has accepted His wife who was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa," and he was a low-class man, washerman, and still, the king, Lord Rāmacandra, thought that "My citizens are criticizing Me." Immediately He separated Lakṣmī-devi, Sītā. This is ideal king, no criticism from the citizen, even Lord Rāmacandra. This is called rājarṣi.



*Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit... Parīkṣit Mahārāja was going on a tour. These Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperor of the whole world. So he saw that a black man was trying to kill a cow. So immediately he took action: "Who is this man trying to kill cow?" So he chastised him, punished him. He was going to kill him, but he saved himself, that "This is my time. I am Kali*-yuga. I am the representative. So this is my business, to kill cow. So what can I do?" Then he said that "You better get out. Otherwise I shall kill you." "So where shall I go?" "Now, out of my kingdom." "Then where is not your kingdom? The whole world is your kingdom. Where shall I go? I am also your subject. You must give me a place." Then he gave him the places-striyaḥ sūnā pānaṁ dyūtaṁ yatra pāpas catur-vidhaḥ: "You can remain in four places. Where illicit sex is indulged, prostitution, you can remain there; *and sūnā," means unnecessary killing animals, slaughterhouse, "you can remain there. And brothel and liquorhouse, striyaḥ sūnā pāna, where intoxication is indulged, you can remain there. And gambling." Pāna dyūta [SB 1.17.38]. Dyūta means gambling. "You can remain in these places." So it was very difficult for Kali to find out such place because Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time the kingdom was so nice that there was no brothel, no slaughterhouse, no liquor shop and no gambling club. This is rājarṣi. So you could not find. Therefore Kali made a conspiracy how to get out Mahārāja Parīkṣit so that he could spread his influence. So long Mahārāja Parīkṣit was there, there was no influence of Kali-yuga. So after all, the age has come. It is ordained. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja was cursed by a brāhmaṇa to die within seven days, and after his death the Kali-yuga spreaded its influence. And now, by the advancement of ages, you will find these four places in every home. This is Illicit sex, and intoxication, gambling and meat-eating*-this is Kali-yuga.

So the king was very strict not to allow these things. The people were following. Yad yad ācarati śreyān. The king was strict; *the government was strict. Therefore people were following. So these sinful activities of the whole world can be stopped immediately if the government is strong. But the government members, they are themself, they are victims of Kali*-yuga, so how they can stop it? Some big, big politician, when they enjoy, they bring naked girls and drinking, and this is their standard of enjoyment. So how you can expect good government? It is not possible. Why they should be bothering about people's happiness? They want to occupy big, big ministerial post to enjoy their life. Therefore the position of the whole world is so deteriorated because there is no ideal man. All rogues, thieves, I mean to say, in very fallen condition. Therefore people are deteriorating. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. These will be the signs of Kali-yuga. Dāmpata means husband and wife. Their relation will stand so long they satisfy one another by sex, rati. Rati means sex. Dāmpate ratim eva hi. And as soon as there is sex disturbance: divorce-"I don't want you." Vipratve sūtram eva hi: "A brāhmaṇa means one, two paisa thread." That's all. "A sannyāsī means a rod." These are the explanations. And a very expert man means kuṭumba, dākṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam. If anyone can maintain a family-family means one wife and one or two children-then he is to be considered very expert, successful because... Therefore you will find in these days-no wife, no children, no family. In Western countries they take dog as the best friend, and television. That's all. Because this is Kali-yuga, no family. But he must have some companion, but he doesn't want family, the botheration of family. Then dog is the best friend. What can be done? This is going on, and it will increase more and more, more and more.

*Therefore, at the present moment it is a great necessity to have some ideal men. Yad yad ācarati śreyān. Therefore we are endeavoring to create some ideal men, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, their character, their behavior, their ideal aim of life. So those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, they should be ideal men. The society will be benefited at least by seeing their behavior. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us, āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. If you don't behave yourself as an ideal man, you cannot preach. Your preaching will not be successful. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. Because the nature's law is that ordinary men, they follow the ideal. If there is rājarṣi, kṣatriya, ruler, king, just like saintly person, like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Lord Rāmacandra*-there are many-Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, then people will be happy. Just like it is described, during the reign of Mahārāja Parīkṣit there was no trouble at all of the citizens. They were free from even ordinary minor diseases. It is said there, in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. And so far production is concerned, it is said that the land was producing all the necessities. Sarva-dughāṁ mahī. Sarva-kāma-dughāṁ mahī. Actually we get everything from the earth, all supplies. We are getting these flowers from earth. We are getting these fruits from earth. We are getting foodstuff from the earth. We are getting minerals from the earth-everything. Sarva-dughāṁ mahī. So nature will supply you sufficiently, provided you follow ideal life. Otherwise nature will punish you. There will be no supply.

*These are all described in Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. The nature was not supplying sufficiently, and then Mahārāja Pṛthu, the personified Prithivi, he was going to kill her, punish her. King's business is, if somebody is doing wrong, then the king must punish. So he was prepared to punish Pṛthvī. She submitted that "King, why you are trying to punish me? It is my business when people become demons, I restrict my supply." So this is nature's law. As soon as you become demons, godless, nature will restrict supply. There will be no rain, no production. There will be scarcity, everything. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everything is being carried by prakṛti. And prakṛti is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Without prakṛti's cooperation you cannot get anything. You may have big, big mills and factories-useless. You cannot manufacture, I mean to say, rice, grains. Even if you eat meat, the cows and the animals, they must eat vegetables. There will be no vegetables. How you will be able to eat meat even? So nature has got the restricting power. As you become more and more demons and sinful, nature will restrict supply and you'll suffer. This is the law.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti

[Bg. 7.14]



*Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to teach people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, surrender unto Him. Then they will be happy. This is the way of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to create some ideal men. People will see them, and at least they will understand that "Here are the ideal men." They will be ashamed. So those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they should be śreyān-yad yad ācarati śreyān*-the best men in the society. Otherwise useless. If you waste your time to make a free hotel and sleep-useless. That will not make our mission successful, if you take advantage of free hotel and no work. That will not be successful. We must be śreyān, first-class men. That is wanted because there is no first-class men. All fourth-class, fifth-class śūdra. Kalau śūdrā-sambhavāḥ. Śūdra means fourth-class men, and caṇḍāla means fifth-class men. So nowadays they are mainly caṇḍālas. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ [SB 2.4.18]. Yavana and caṇḍālas. By the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this movement is able to pick up even caṇḍālas and yavanās to become brāhmaṇas.



māṁ ca (yo) 'vyabhicāriṇī

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*"One who is engaged in devotional service, he becomes immediately transcendental to this infection of the three qualities of material nature." Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate. That is actually happening. This powerful Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so strong that we can pick up from the lowest stage of life and bring him to the highest stage of life if we follow the rules and regulation. It is possible. Practically we are seeing. So that is required, yad yad ācarati śreyān, a class of men. Maybe minority; it doesn't matter. But their ideal behavior, character, will lead other people to appreciate: "Yes. We should be like this." Now, who was telling this night? I think Praṇava was telling that some friend has told that in the Western countries they are appreciating this movement because I have stopped amongst my members this intoxication. There are. Are you not telling?



Praṇava: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. They are gradually appreciating that "Oh." Yes, Professor Judah also, he says that. They are appreciating now, that "How is this, nice movement, that our students, they were habituated to all these and they have now become God conscious? They are mad after God?" And one priest in Boston, he also agreed. One priest came to see me. He said, "Swamiji, how is that? Your disciples look so bright." They are appreciating. This is wanted, everyone śreyān. So this movement is very important movement because it is creating first*-class men so that others will see and follow. So this is required. Yad yad ācarati śreyān tad tad itaraḥ īhate. It is natural. A father may be drunkard, but he doesn't like to see his son has become drunkard. This is natural. Everyone appreciates good quality. So similarly, if we can create an ideal class of men, then others who are fallen will try to become like us.



*So don't take this movement very insignificantly. Very serious. And those who are members, they should become ideal. We have got very easy, easy method to become ideal. Avoid these four principles of sinful life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sixteen times*-you become ideal.

*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*paraṁ vijayate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*So in the very beginning the first thing is ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam. We are all suffering on account of ignorance. There are so many nasty, dirty things within our heart. It will be cleansed. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā.



*tadā rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ

*kāma*-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

[SB 1.2.19]



*naṣṭa*-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu

*nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā

bhagavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

[SB 1.2.18]



*These are the formulas. If we hear Bhāgavatam from Bhāgavatam, not from the professional men who have made business for reciting Bhāgavata... No. Nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā.



*There are two bhāgavatas: grantha*-bhāgavata and the man bhāgavata. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara, he recommended a brāhmaṇa. He came to see him, writing something that was full of mistakes. Then he chastised him that "You do not know what is what. You have tried to explain Bhāgavata." But when the brāhmaṇa was submissively hearing and tolerated the chastisement, then he gave the advice, bhāgavata porā giyā bhāgavata-sthāne: "Go. Hear Bhāgavata from a person whose life is Bhāgavata." Bhāgavata parā giyā bhāgavata-sthāne. Not the professional bhāgavata. They are aiming Therefore they immediately open the rāsa-līlā chapter and explain it very nicely. People will like: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa and myself, the same. He is also embracing the young girl. I shall now try to find out young girl." This is going on. They are going to hell by hearing Bhāgavatam from these rascal professionals. Bhāgavata is meant, from the very beginning First of all try to understand what is God. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itaraḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Nine cantos to explain what is God. Then Tenth Canto, God, Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is there, not Tenth Canto immediately. So everything is misused only for "Money, money, money. Bring money." This is Kali-yuga. Everything will be judged by money. And as soon as there is money there will be hiṁsa. Therefore this bhāgavata-dharma is not for this class of men. Dharma-projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. Those who are above enviousness, those who are above after hankering after money, for them, this bhāgavata-dharma is not for them. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Paramhaṁsāya.

*So we have taken this Bhāgavatam. We should be very, very careful to become first*-class men so that others will follow. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. If you become a first-class man, sa yat pramāṇam, whatever you will do, lokas tad anuvartate, people will follow, naturally. Lokas tad anuvartate. Unfortunately nowadays first-class man means kill Kṛṣṇa. This is first-class man. All these so-called rascal scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, their only business is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, pounce Him, (Kamsa?), as Kamsa was planning how to kill Kṛṣṇa. That was his plan, demon. He was also thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but he was thinking Kṛṣṇa, how to kill Him. So that is not bhakti. Kṛṣṇa consciousness... He was also Kṛṣṇa conscious. He was thinking always, twenty-four hours, Kṛṣṇa, how to kill Kṛṣṇa. So that is not bhakti. Bhakti means how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ, na tu pratikūlyena [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Pratikūla means adverse. Yes. If you think of Kṛṣṇa adversely, how to kill this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Of course, Kṛṣṇa is so nice that even if you think of Kṛṣṇa adversely, because you'll chant "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," you will get benefit. Kṛṣṇa is so nice. Because you are chanting unconsciously... Just like there were so many propaganda in Germany, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa people are so bad." But every paper chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa. "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is bad," but in the beginning, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." So therefore, in spite of their propaganda, we are existing there. We are existing. We have come out triumphant. They could not do anything.

*So the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is so strong, and indirectly, directly, or some way or other, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you become benefited. It is so. So if you neglectfully chant Hare Kṛṣṇa you become so benefited, then how much you will be benefited if you carefully chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That should be the ideal. Therefore, sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute lokas tad anuvartate. Unfortunately, those decrying this Kṛṣṇa movement or Kṛṣṇa... They directly making propaganda. When Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, the so-called scholars, they say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." They're misleading. Lokas tad anuvartate. The people are becoming against Kṛṣṇa: "Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? I have got another God, manufactured. Here is God." Kṛṣṇa was so beautiful, and I am God, so ugly God? No. There are so many ugly Gods nowadays that ferocious face and he is God. We worship God, so nice face, people come and become enchanted, and they bring a God, a ferocious head, and he becomes God. This is going on. The whole propaganda is like that. Even big, big political leaders, they'll say, "We don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, there was a person as Kṛṣṇa living ever." So people are being misled. Lokas tad anuvartate. He has taken the position of śreyān, big leader, big scholar, and he is decrying Kṛṣṇa. So what people will do? They are helpless. They will give, "Oh, Mr. such and such said it is fiction. Kṛṣṇa is imagination." This is going on. In Vṛndāvana you'll find so many big, big Māyāvādīs. They're explaining that this Kṛṣṇa concept is an imagination, and people are thronged together to hear him, in Vṛndāvana, and what to speak of other places. So this is the position of the world, and they are suffering and they will continue to suffer. Nature will punish them. Yamarāja will take them. That is their next life. So you try to save them. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



750909SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.5-6

-

Vṛndāvana, September 9, 1975



Prabhupāda:



yasyāṅke śira ādhāya

lokaḥ svapiti nirvṛtaḥ

svayaṁ dharmam adharmaṁ vā

na hi veda yathā paśuḥ



sa kathaṁ nyarpitātmānaṁ

*kṛta*-maitram acetanaṁ

visrambhaṇīyo bhūtānāṁ

saghṛṇo dogdhum arhati

[SB 6.2.5-6]



Just like a child is sleeping on the lap of his mother, feeling secure, completely secure, that "I am on the lap of my mother..." Naturally a child, when it is on the lap of it's mother, he is quite comfortable, silent, feeling very secure. So in that position if the mother kills the child... It is like that, that prajā and the king... The prajās... Prajā means the citizens, subjects. They should be feeling so much secure that "We are under good government. There is no disturbance." Just like during the government of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, they were so secure that even they had no very much anxieties. "Our king is there." The world is full of anxieties, miseries, and difficulties. So the good government means when the subjects, citizens, feel secure from all such things.



*So here, yasyāṅke śira ādhāya. Suppose I am sleeping very comfortably, feeling secure by keeping my head on your lap, yasyāṅke śira ādhāya lokaḥ svapiti, and dreaming very happily. Svaya dharmam adharmaṁ vā na he veda yathā paśuḥ. You cannot expect all men to understand what is religion and what is not religion, general mass of people. So what is the position of a person or any being who does not know to make distinction what is dharma and adharma? So they have been described. He is described as yathā paśuḥ. Paśuḥ. Paśuḥ means animal. An animal cannot make distinction what is right or what is wrong. That is not possible. Therefore it is said, dharmeṇa hīnā paśubhiḥ samānāḥ: "One who is ignorant of dharma*-adharma, he is no better than paśu." Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narāṇām. Āhāra, eating. I eat, the dog eats, the cat eats. I sleep, the dog sleeps, and the cat sleeps. I have sex desire, I satisfy it. The cats and dogs also satisfy it. And I am also afraid of my enemy; the cats and dogs are also afraid of enemy. Then where is the difference between cats and dogs? The difference is that I can be trained up to become religious; *the cats and dogs cannot be trained. That is the difference. Dharmeṇa hīnā paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. So if I don't take education and enlightenment how to become religious, I do not know how to distinguish between right and wrong, then yathā paśu*-then I am as good as animal.

*That is the position at the present moment, that people are not educated to distinguish or to become pious. They are not educated. They are being... Now, at the present moment, education means you learn technology and learn how to earn money, and then, after earning money, you spend it for sense gratification: eating meat, eating wine, going to the brothel, prostitute. This is modern civilization. So therefore it is the civilization of paśu, animal civilization, polished animal. It is not civilization. It is the duty of the guardian, father, guru, government or elderly relative. Everyone should be compassionate with the dependent. The father should be compassionate to the children, that "My children, they have come to me. They are now innocent. If I do not train them nicely..." What kind of training? Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta*-mṛtyum. That is the duty of the father, of the guru, how to save the dependent from the clutches of death. This is the duty. The government also. Because death is sure. As soon as we get this material body, the death is sure.

*So we are eternal spiritual spark. Kṛṣṇa says that the living entity is eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is the information we get from the authority, that "The living entity is eternal," nitya, śāśvata, "and ever*-existing, and does not die on the death or annihilation of the body." Then what is the duty of the father? What is the duty of the government? Duty of the guru? Now how to save him from this repetition of birth and death. And that is the duty. Otherwise to give some food... That also, people cannot give now. Rather, killing their children in the womb. This is Kali-yuga. Whereas it is the duty of the parents how to save the child or the son from the clutches of death, they are now killing. This is advanced civilization. This is going on all over the world. They are going to the medical man and taking help and killing the child within the womb. This is Kali-yuga.

So here it is, the same thing said, that yasyāṅke śira ādhāya lokaḥ svapiti nirvṛtaḥ. The child is sleeping in the womb of the mother, and the mother is killing. Then where to take shelter? Similarly, this example is that "This Ajāmila, he might have committed some sins without knowledge. Now he is no more sinful because he has chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, and he is not to be punished." That is the purpose of the Viṣṇudūta. "So why you are dragging him, trying to take him to Yamarāja to punish him? You do not know that he is innocent. We have to..." The real purpose is that everyone... We commit sinful activities on account of ignorance. Therefore the best humanitarian work is to give knowledge to the humanity, not that one is suffering for want of food and... If I give some food, that is good work, but that is not sufficient. I may give food; *that's all right. You give. We also give prasādam free. But that does not mean simply by giving prasādam, we are silent. We give knowledge also. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Food, automatically you have to give. That is... There is no prohibition. But at the same time: knowledge. Without knowledge*-giving, if he remains ignorant... Just like the same example. If you have got some children, if you don't give them education, simply feed them, that is not your proper duty. You must give knowledge.

*Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is therefore giving them knowledge. The first knowledge is that we are trying to convince everyone, following the footprints of Lord Kṛṣṇa, as He wanted to convince in the very beginning, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. This is the first knowledge. One should know that he is not this body. He is spirit soul, different from this body. He is living within this body. This is called knowledge. And at the same time, he should be supplied the necessities of the body. Yāvād artha*-prayojanaṁ. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ Viṣayā. Viṣayā means we need something for our sense gratification. That is allowed. We don't say that "You don't eat." No, you eat, but you eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Don't eat anything else. Then gradually your senses will be conquered. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. If you want to realize God, first of all you should engage your tongue in the service of the Lord. It is very astonishing that "Engaging the tongue I become perfect?" Yes. The beginning is the tongue because tongue is the greatest enemy. People are going to hell on account of being unable to control the tongue. Therefore one has to control the tongue. And controlling tongue means you engage the tongue in the service of the Lord. How? Tongue means you can speak with your tongue and you can eat with your tongue. So engage the tongue chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is service. And tongue wants to taste. Give him kṛṣṇa-prasādam, very nice. So as soon as you engage your tongue in these two business, then naturally you become purified and your senses become also purified. Then you come to the real platform.

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalaṁ

*hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ

bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



This is the bhakti, to engage the purified senses in the service of the master of senses, Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīkeśa means master. Hṛṣika means the senses, and īśa means master. Hṛṣīkeśa. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa.



So we have to engage our senses. It is not our senses; it is Kṛṣṇa's. We have forgotten it. I am seeing with my eyes. I am very much proud I can see. But why you cannot see when you are blind? The eyes are there. Because the master has withdrawn the sight power. You can be happy with your decoration of the eyes, but you cannot see. So actually I do not see. Just like I have got this spectacle. The spectacle does not see; I am seeing. Similarly, with my eyes I am not seeing; Kṛṣṇa is seeing. Because Kṛṣṇa is seeing, therefore I am seeing. This is the Vedic version. You will find in Upaniṣad. Because the Supreme Brahman is seeing, therefore we are seeing. Because the Brahman is walking... There are many evidences. Just like this ear. Now I am hearing with this ear. You are also hearing. But when I am unconscious, this ear is there, and you call me, "Mr. Mo..., Mr. Sir, Mr. Sir," but I cannot hear. The machine is there. Why you cannot hear? Therefore the Brahman is withdrawn.

*So sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahman. Everything is working because the Brahman is there. Otherwise it will not work, simply machine. This body, because the Brahman, the soul, is there, it is working. And as soon as the soul is out of this body, it is lump of matter. They are thinking the brain is working. The brain is not working. Brain is a machine. Just like typing. You are typing. The machine is not typing. You are typing. Unless there is touch of Brahman, nothing can work. So when we realize this, that is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], when we understand that "I am simply instrumental." That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhramāyan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. Actually we are under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, and he has given us this machine, this body, and we are wandering throughout the whole universe. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. This is our position. We have got this machine, and we are wandering throughout the universe in different planets and different forms of life, and we do not know what is the aim of life.

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru kṛṣṇa kṛpa pāya bhakti*-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*In this wandering, wandering, wandering, when we come in contact with a bona fide guru, we get the seed of devotional service. That is the aim of life, how to get that. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You must go. Otherwise your life is useless.



*So it is the duty of guru, it is the duty of father, it is the duty of the government, it is the duty of the elderly relative to educate everyone. This is human life, not that simply eating like dog and dancing like dog. This is not human civilization. So sa kathaṁ nyarpitātmānaṁ kṛta*-maitram acetanam. If I think that "My spiritual master is here. He will save me," and if I do not train him how to save them, then what is the use of having such spiritual master? What is the use of having such father? And what is the use of such government? There is a Bengali poetry by a Bengali Vaiṣṇava: kaname janame sabe pitā mātā paya, kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhajaha e aya.(?) As soon as you take birth, there is father. Either you take birth as a snake or you take birth as a human being, without father and mother there is no question of birth. So father and mother you will get in every birth. But kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhajaha e aya(?): Kṛṣṇa and guru will not be available in every birth. That is very important thing. You cannot get Kṛṣṇa in the form of a snake or a cat and a dog, but you can get Kṛṣṇa in the form as a human being.

*Therefore human being, this form of human being... Labdhvā sudurlabham idaṁ bahu*-sambhavānte [SB 11.9.29]. After many, many millions of years we have got this human form of body. It should not be misused simply like cats and dogs. This is not success of life. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he was five-years-old boy, he advised his classfriend that kaumāraṁ ācaret prājñaḥ. He was instructing. He was a devotee. He was preaching, "My dear friend, you just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." The children protested, "Eh! We shall now play or we shall become Kṛṣṇa conscious? No, no, we shall play." So Prahlāda Mahārāja repeatedly said, "No, no, no. Even we are children, we should not play. We should become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Kaumāraṁ ācaret prājñaḥ. If you are intelligent... Kaumāraṁ. Kaumāram means from the childhood, from five years. Kaumāraṁ ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. "Why? All right, if you say that I shall become Kṛṣṇa conscious, I shall become. Let us grow now." No. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣyaṁ janma tad api adhruvam arthadam [SB 7.6.1]. "No, no, no. Don't spoil your life in that way. It is... Although we have got this body, human form, but it is also adhruvam. It will not stay."

*So before your next death you finish your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the real gain of life. Don't wait that "I shall become old, and when I shall become feeble*-there is no more energy-then I shall become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Of course, Kṛṣṇa conscious, one can become in a moment perfect. But that is rarely done. Everyone should be taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very childhood. This is human civilization.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710110SB.CAL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.5-8

-

Calcutta, January 10, 1971



Prabhupāda:



yasyāṅke śira ādhāya

lokaḥ svapiti nirvṛtaḥ

svayaṁ dharmam adharmaṁ vā

na hi veda yathā paśuḥ



sa kathaṁ nyarpitātmānaṁ

*kṛta*-maitram acetanam

visrambhaṇīyo bhūtānāṁ

saghṛṇo dogdhum arhati

[SB 6.2.5-6]



*(microphone moves) Is that all right? Visvasena nitaram arpita ātmā yenārtham visrambhaṇīyo visva*-saghṛṇiya visva-saniya saghṛṇasya.(?)



sa kathaṁ nyarpitātmānaṁ

*kṛta*-maitram acetanam

visrambhaṇīyo bhūtānāṁ

saghṛṇo dogdhum arhati



*So the Yamadūta is comparing the trustworthy government. Everything is discussed in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, but people do not take advantage of all these instructions. They mean... Bhāgavatam means that rāsa-līlā, that's all. So many nice instructions are there in different cantos. Actually, the Kṛṣṇa is described in the Tenth Canto, and other nine cantos are specially meant for purifying the heart and understanding real Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. They do not know. Those who take advantage of Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā only as ordinary story, they do not know Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ. But even though they do not know, because they are hearing about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, they are also becoming purified. But if they hear from authorized source, then the result will be bhaktiṁ parāṁ bhagavati bhagavati pratilabhya. They will be promoted to transcendental devotional platform, and the result will be that hṛd-roga-kāmam apahinoti.



*Actually, by hearing about rāsa-līlā the result will be that one will be raised to the platform of transcendental service, and the disease of lust within the heart-that is material disease*-that will be completely vanquished. Hṛd-roga-kāmam apahinoti aciram. Aciram, very soon, they will be able to eradicate the deep-rooted lusty desires in the heart of material existence. Material existence means lusty life. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. Material life means simply to desire to enjoy. Of course, there is no enjoyment. That is... So if one hears rāsa-līlā from authoritative source, the result will be that he will be promoted to the transcendental platform of loving service to Kṛṣṇa. And the material disease, lusty desires, will be vanquished. But they do not hear from the authoritative source. Some professional reciters they hear; *therefore they remain in the material existence of lusty affairs and sometimes they turn to be sahajiyā. When Kṛṣṇa had connection with so many women... You know that in Vṛndāvana, the "yugala-bhajana"*-one becomes Kṛṣṇa and one becomes Rādhā. That is their theory. And so many things are going on. Therefore we instruct that first of all read the nine chapters very carefully, and then... There are so many nice instructions, but they do not hear about this nice instruction, ajāmila-śraddhā caritra. At least, picked up, some incidences, they should hear.

So,

*ayaṁ hi kṛta*-nirveśo

*janma*-koṭy-aṁhasām api

yad vyājahāra vivaśo

*nāma svasty*-ayanaṁ hareḥ

[SB 6.2.7]



*The charge of Viṣṇudūtas for the Yamadūta was that they did not know whom to arrest and whom not to arrest. Therefore he was criticizing. Yamarāja is meant for arresting the criminals, sinful persons. But these Yamadūtas came to arrest Ajāmila, who was already relieved from all sinful actions simply by chanting "Nārāyaṇa." That was not known to them. So in order to criticize them, that "You do not know where to go and where not to go," they described in so many ways. Now they are positively saying that ayaṁ hi kṛta*-nirveśo janma-koṭy-aṁhasām api: "Even though he committed sinful activity for millions of years, he is now free." Ayaṁ hi kṛta-nirveśaḥ: "He has completely counteracted all those sinful activities." How? Yad vyājahāra vivaśo nāma svasty-ayanaṁ hareḥ. So vivaśaḥ: "Somehow or other, he has chanted the holy name of Hari." Asya pāpena daṇḍe kim artham akrośa kriyate tatrāhur ayaṁ hriyate:(?) (commentary) "Why you are attempting to arrest this person as criminal?" Yamadūta, yad yada vivaśi 'pi harer nāma vyājahāra uccaritavan:(?) "There was no intention of chanting the holy name of Hari, but even though consciously or unconsciously he has chanted the holy name of Hari, therefore he is now free."



*Now, we have to note this important thing, that the powerful hari*-nāma is so strong that even one unconsciously or conscious... Sometimes they imitate: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." They have no intention to chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, but they imitate or criticize, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." That has also effect. That has also effect. Just like the Muhammadans during Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, they sometimes used to criticize, "These Hindus are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." So they were imitating. So gradually they also became devotees. Yad vyājahāra vivaśo nāma svasty-ayanaṁ hareḥ. Vivaśi 'pi harer nāma vyājahāra uccaritavan na kevalam prāyaścitta. Mātram harer nāma api tu svasty-ayanaṁ makara-sādhanam api.(?) So Śrīdhara Svāmī says that "This chanting of holy name of Nārāyaṇa, Hari, is not only counteracting his all sinful reactions, but he is now eligible to become liberated and being transferred to the spiritual world. Not only he has been freed from, but there is a reward for it." You see? Eka hari-nāme yata pāpa hare, pāpī haya tata pāpa karibāre nare.(?) A sinful man is very expert in committing sinful activities, but here is a statement that the holy name of Hari is so powerful that even an expert criminal cannot commit as much sinful activity as by once chanting the holy name of Hari, it can be counteracted. He is unable. The expert criminal is very advanced in committing sinful life, but śāstra says that he cannot commit so many sinful life. The one chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is so powerful.

*So one may be not bewildered. They may criticize that it's too much, but it is not too much. It is actual fact. Actual fact. That is aparādha. One who thinks like that, that hari*-nāma has not so much power that it can counteract, they are offender. For them it is not possible. But one who believes in the words of the śāstras, as it is stated here, for him it is actually effective. Artha-vāda. Out of ten offenses, artha-vāda, one who comments like that, that is artha-vāda, and that is offense. So those who are cultivating this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they should have firm faith in the statement of the śāstras that chanting of harer nāma is so powerful.

etenaiva hy aghono 'sya

*kṛtaṁ syād agha*-niṣkṛtam

yadā nārāyaṇāyeti

*jagāda catur*-akṣaram

[SB 6.2.8]



*Now, it clearly says that catur*-akṣaram, these four alphabet-nā, rā, ya, ṇa-four, nā, rā, ya, ṇa, that "Because he has uttered these four alphabets, Nārāyaṇa..." But he had no offense in chanting. He sincerely chanted offenseless chanting; therefore he became free immediately.



etenaiva hy aghono 'sya

*kṛtaṁ syād agha*-niṣkṛtam

yadā nārāyaṇāyeti

*jagāda catur*-akṣaram

[SB 6.2.8]



*(commentary:) Nanu karma syād guṇakaram harer nāmeti yuktam, yasya smṛtya ca nāmoktvā tapo*-yajña-kriyādiṣu nūnaṁ taṁ pūrṇakaṁ yati sadyaḥ vande acyutam ity ādi-vacanam.(?) So Śrīdhara Svāmī is quoting from śāstras that baddha parikaratvena mokṣaya gamanam pratiti smṛte, na kevalaṁ prāyaścittaṁ harer nāma api tu satyayana...(?) (etc.) This is a quotation from smṛti-śāstra, that sakṛd uccaritaṁ yena hariti akṣara-dvayam. If anyone simply chants these two alphabets, ha, ri-hari-then baddha-parikaras tena mokṣaya gamanaṁ pratiti: "Although he is a conditioned soul, his path for liberation is open." Yasya smṛtya ca nāmoktvā tapa-yajña-kriyādiṣu, nūnaṁ taṁ pūrṇakaṁ yati sadyaḥ vande acyutam ity ādi-vacanam.(?) There is another quotation, that yasya smṛtya ca moktva tapo-yajña-kriyādiṣu. These are pious activities: austerity and sacrifice, tapas, yajña, and kriyā, pious activities. Everything is done simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. There is no need of doing anything. Simply by chanting, one can achieve the result of japa, yajña, and other ritualistic performances prescribed in the Vedas. And this is specially advised to the karma-kāṇḍīyas, those who are very much fond of performing ritualistic ceremony. For them this instruction is specially meant, that if you chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense, then you'll get all the results of japa, yajña, and other ritualistic performances.



*Sakamtvena tapta*-nivantakaṁ harer nāma katham syat tatrahuḥ etenaiva iti agho 'nya anyāyataḥ maghavat śabda...(?) This light is not sufficient. (end)



750910SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.7

-

Vṛndāvana, September 10, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*ayaṁ hi kṛta*-nirveśo

*janma*-koṭy-aṁhasām api

yad vyājahāra vivaśo

*nāma svasty*-ayanaṁ hareḥ

[SB 6.2.7]



*So the order carriers of Lord Viṣṇu, Viṣṇudūta, declared that "This man, although he was very sinful, but now he is cleared of all sinful reaction. He is now clean." How he is clean? Yad vyājahāra: "He has uttered the name of Nārāyaṇa," yad vyājahāra vivaśo, "not any artificially, but automatically," vivaśaḥ, nāma, "the holy name." Svasty*-ayanam: "To chant the holy name of the Lord means to achieve all auspicity." Hare.



*Now, this name, hare... Sometimes the Māyāvādīs, they say that any name, either of Hari or any other demigod, is equal. No. That is not. That is nāmāparadha. If one thinks that the holy name of Hari is as good as the name of other demigods, then it is nāmāparadha. That is not śuddha*-nāma. So people are being misguided in that way. But the śāstra does not say that. The śāstra says, harer nāma, harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21], the holy name of Hari, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu-tattva. Hari means Viṣṇu-tattva. There are... Tattva is manifested in different ways: Viṣṇu-tattva, Viṣṇu-śakti-tattva, jīva-tattva, like that. So śāstra says that harer nāma, Viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu... Of course, Lord Viṣṇu has several thousands of names according to His different activities: Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, Hari, Govinda, Mādhava, many names. So any name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Hari... Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma. The śāstra reminding us three times. Just like we stress upon something that "Do this! Do this! Do this!" Thrice. So therefore it is said three times, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma, so that he may not forget. He may not be misguided by the so-called Māyāvādīs that any name... No. Harer nāma, three times. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva [Cc. Ādi 17.21], again eva. Then again three times: kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. You cannot deviate from this process. There is no other alternative process. You cannot say that "I will be liberated by this process or that process," no. Because it is Kali-yuga, any other process will not be successful. You adopt any process; *ultimately you have to come to this process, bhakti*-yoga. You can work on karma-yoga. You can work on jñāna-yoga. You can work on haṭha-yoga. There are different yogas. Yoga means how to connect with the Supreme. Yoga means connection, and viyoga means distraction. We know, anyone who knows mathematics, yoga. Yoga means addition, and subtraction, viyoga. So at the present moment, in our conditional stage, we are separated. Not exactly separated, but we have forgotten. We have forgotten our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to connect it again. That is called yoga. Because we are now disconnected somehow or other, now we have to connect it again.

*So any yoga system means an endeavor to connect our relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is called yoga. So someone is trying to make the connection*-karma-yoga. Someone is trying by jñāna-yoga. Someone is trying haṭha-yoga. But the real aim is bhakti-yoga. Just like different steps. You are on the first step, and other is on the second step, and other is on the third step, and other is on the fourth step. But the ultimate goal is bhakti-yoga. You cannot understand God or Kṛṣṇa by any other yoga. It may be a step forward, but ultimately you have to come to the bhakti-yoga. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births' endeavor to execute the yoga system," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān, "one who is actually practicing jñāna-yoga or mystic yoga, he comes to the bhakti-yoga." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. Prapadyate. This is bhakti-yoga. And still clearly explained. What is that prapatti? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: [Bg. 7.19] "When one comes to this understanding that Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything. I surrender to Kṛṣṇa.' " Kṛṣṇa is canvassing personally. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That we'll not take. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is claiming too much." But that is the ultimate goal, that you have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection.

*So this conclusion, that "Let me surrender... Kṛṣṇa is asking me. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate Absolute Truth, He is asking me to surrender. Why shall I delay? Let me surrender," this is intelligence. Jñānavān. So those who are intelligent, they will take immediately. It is explained in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta,

'śraddhā'-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya

kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva karma kṛta haya



This is the real śraddhā, faith. What is that faith? Śraddhā śabde viśvāsa. Faith means strong faith, not flickering faith, viśvāsa, "to believe." What is that viśvāsa? Śraddhā śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya: very firm faith and with surety. Surety must be because Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, says that "You surrender unto Me, and I shall give you protection from all sinful reaction." He is assuring. Then why we shall doubt? Because we are doubting Kṛṣṇa, that is the defect, that Kṛṣṇa says; *"It may be or may not be," doubt. That is called doubt. Kṛṣṇa says in many places, asaṁśaya: "Don't doubt what I say. Accept it." Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mam evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ: [Bg. 18.65] "You do this, and without any doubt, rest assured, you will come to Me." In another place Kṛṣṇa said, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, asaṁśayam. Again asaṁśayam. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1].



*So it is our misfortune that we become doubtful about Kṛṣṇa. This is our misfortune. Otherwise, to become liberated, to go back to home, back to Godhead, very easy thing*-provided we accept the Kṛṣṇa's version as it is, without any change. It is very easy. Kṛṣṇa, when He comes personally, He comes to bestow the mercy to the fallen souls, and He speaks very clearly that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more better positive truth than Myself." But we don't believe. That is the misfortune. But this man, although he did not know what he is doing, but very faithfully he chanted, vivaśaḥ, vivaśaḥ, without any hesitation. Vivaśaḥ. Vivaśaḥ means being forced. He was forced to chant. So yena tena prakāreṇa. If you chant without any committing any offense the holy name of the Lord, then you become liberated. This is the purpose of this Ajāmila upākhyāna. Ayaṁ hi kṛta-nirveṣaḥ. Nirveṣa means atonement. If you commit some sin, then you should atone for it. Otherwise you have to carry the reaction of your sinful life to the next life. Therefore, according to the Vedic system, there is prāyaścitta. So prāyaścitta, that is also very heavy task. In this age nobody can perform prāyaścitta. And even one is able to perform prāyaścitta, then he..., there is possibility of again falling down unless one is clear consciousness, and that, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is every chance of falling down.

*So anyway, this Ajāmila is kṛta*-nirveṣa. The Viṣṇudūta informed to the Yamadūta that "You cannot touch him anymore. He is now pure." Kṛta-nirveṣa. Kṛta-nirveṣa. Then the next question is... The Yamadūta may say that "How he has become kṛta-nirveṣa? He is so sinful that there is no limit of his sinful activities, and you say that it is clear immediately?" And therefore he says, janma-koṭy-aṁhaām api: "Not only one life's sinful activity, but many, many crores of births' sinful activities." So we do not know how many births we had previously, but from the śāstra we understand crores, many millions of times, we had to take birth. Therefore it is used, janma koṭi: not one birth or two birth or second birth or fifth birth. So unless we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this repetition of birth and death will continue. Therefore it is said janma koṭi... We are passing through many forms of different forms of life. We are creating one family, that "I belong to this family." But what about my other families? Because janma koṭi, in every family, when I enter, there must be father and mother and family members. So which family I am especially concerned? That is our ignorance. We become interested in the particular family where we are at present. But we do not know that in the past we had to pass through many hundreds and millions of families. So which family is correct? And again, if I do not correct myself at the present moment, I have to go through many millions of families until we come to the point: vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. This is the point.

*So this vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], we are distributing on the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. People may take that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are preaching vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]*-no compromise, only Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If people can take it without any hesitation... As Kṛṣṇa says, mā śucaḥ: "Don't be worried." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Kṛṣṇa says Even out of sentiment we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, believing on the word of Kṛṣṇa, out of sentiment, still, we are benefited. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ [SB 1.5.17]. It is said that if by sentiment one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, tyaktvā sva-dharmam Everyone has got his occupational duty. The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or anyone-everyone has got some particular duty, obligation. But Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no need of executing all this obligation. Simply surrender to Me." Kṛṣṇa says. So if somebody, out of sentiment, if one thinks that "Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, I will be perfect? Why not take it? Let me give up my so-called religious principle." So that is confirmed in the Bhāgavata. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ. He is giving up. Just like these European, American boys, they belong to Jewish religion, they belong to Christian religion, but out of their pious activity or even by sentiment, they have given up. Now they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But they are perfect. You may say that some of them are fallen. So śāstra says that "Even one has fallen, where is the wrong there? And another person, who has not taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, who has not fallen, what is the benefit there?" Even one has not fallen, sticking to his own particular religious system, he is not gainer. But a person who has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness even by sentiment and has fallen, he has great benefit because once he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa becomes attached to him. That is ajñāta-sukṛti. Therefore, in all circumstances, we should accept the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], and surely we shall be benefited.

*So it doesn't matter whether he is advanced. Of course, everyone should try his best to advance more and more in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but even though one falls down circumstantially... Tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer patet tato yadi bhajann apakvo [SB 1.5.17]. Bhajan means this execution of devotional service. Gradually it should be strong and ripe. But if one falls down, even it is not ripened, bhajann apakvo, so śāstra says that "What is the wrong there? What is the loss there? Because he has begun this line of devotional service, even it is stopped at a certain point circumstantially, he is not loser." He is not loser because he will get the opportunity of another human form of life. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate: [Bg. 6.41] "Even one has fallen down, still, he will get the chance of taking birth"-śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe-"in the family of brāhmaṇa, first-class brāhmaṇa," śucīnāṁ, śucī, "very pure," or śrīmatām, "or very rich man, a rich vaiśya." Generally the vaiśyas are rich. So he will get chance either in a very good family of brāhmaṇa or vaiśyas. Vaiśyas are generally devotees. Therefore he gets the chance of taking birth in a nice family. And if he is fortunate or if he is guided, then he begins again Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the point where he lost it. Therefore he is not loser, whereas others who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he may be diverted, and there is no guarantee what is the next birth. Kṛṣṇa does not guarantee. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma... [Bg. 4.9]. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, yathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He will get another body. But what kind of body he is going to get, that is not certain. He may be a demigod or he may be a dog, according to his karma. But this man who is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, if he is fallen and if he has to take birth again, it is guaranteed, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe: [Bg. 6.41] "He will take birth in a very rich family or in a very pure family." This is guaranteed. For others there is no guarantee. He may take birth out of the 8,400,000's of different forms of life. There is no guarantee.

So our request is that, some way or other, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even if you fall down without being ripened, still, you are not loser. That is our request.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750911SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.8

-

Vṛndāvana, September 11, 1975



Prabhupāda:



etenaiva hy aghono 'sya

*kṛtaṁ syād agha*-niṣkṛtaṁ

yadā nārāyaṇāyeti

*jagāda catur*-akṣaram

[SB 6.2.8]



Now, the question may be... The Viṣṇudūta asked the Yamadūta, "You don't touch him. Don't try to take him away. He is now clean of all sinful reaction. You cannot touch him." Yamadūta is meant for the unclean, sinful men, not for the pious, clean men. Criminal department is meant for the unclean, not for the honest gentlemen. Similarly Yamarāja is meant for punishing the sinful men. So apparently he was sinful man. He did everything. But the Viṣṇudūta came to deliver him.



*So the question is that "When this man became sinless?" So that answer is given here, etenaiva: "This chanting of Nārāyaṇa, by this process," eva, "indeed, he, also," aghonaḥ*-agha means sinful"-asya, "of this Ajāmila," kṛtaṁ syād agha-niṣkṛtam, "he is now cleansed of all sinful reaction." When he became? Yadā, "from that time." Yadā, nārāyaṇa, " 'O Nārāyaṇa,' " āyeti, āyeti, " 'Come here please...' " He was affectionate to his youngest son, little son, child. Generally father-mother becomes very much attached. So this child was named Nārāyaṇa. So constantly he was chanting, "Nārāyaṇa, please come here." (aside:) What is that?

Devotee: (loud chirping of bird) (someone claps)



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. "Nārāyaṇa, please come here. Take your meal. Nārāyaṇa, please sit down here. Nārāyaṇa, take your meals," like that. So although he was addressing his son, he did not know that this chanting of Nārāyaṇa is going to his credit, although he did not know. This is called ajñāta*-sukṛti. He did not know what is the use of chanting Nārāyaṇa, these four alphabet, catur-akṣaram. But some way or other, he was chanting.



*So Nārāyaṇa is so kind that although he did not mean real Nārāyaṇa*-he was meaning his son-but the affection was there for Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa is so kind that consciously or unconsciously, if you chant the holy name of the Lord, it goes to your credit. Just like sometimes when you walk in the street, people say "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" So this is also going to their credit. When they offer their respect to a Vaiṣṇava, that goes to their credit. When one comes in this temple, offers his obeisances, it goes to their credit, because Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So some way or other, with some purpose even it is so... Generally people come with a purpose, that "I shall go to the temple, offer my respect to the Deity, and I shall ask this benediction." That is also good, even if he has come with a motive. So Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Kāmād bhayāt lobhāt... Or if one chants Nārāyaṇa name with śuddha, then what to speak?

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that even people joke with us, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," it goes to his credit, even joking. When this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement was started by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at that time India was under Pathan rule, Muhammadan kingdom. So the constables, they were requested to "Arrest these chanters." The brāhmaṇas, the smārta brāhmaṇas, because Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that "Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you will be liberated," so the smārta brāhmaṇas, they thought it very dangerous because their profession will be lost. So they protested to the magistrate, Muhammadan magistrate, Chand Kazi, that "This Caitanya, the Nimāi Paṇḍit, He has inaugurated one movement that 'Simply by chanting one will become liberated.' This is not according to our Hindu scripture. So you may be Muhammadan, but you are our ruler. You should give us some protection. Otherwise this Nimāi Paṇḍit will ruin our Hindu religion." This was the complaint. So after all, he is the magistrate. He took some action, and he forbade through the constables that "You cannot chant." Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was informed by His followers that "We have been ordered by the magistrate to stop..." Just like in foreign countries we are being very occasionally arrested by the police, taken to the jail. So many obstacles are there. But our students are so adamant, they don't stop. They prefer to go to jail, but they will never stop. They are so much determined. So this persecution of devotees, it is from the very beginning. Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was five*-years-old boy, and he was simply chanting "Nārāyaṇa." So his father became enemy, what to speak of others, his father. He was atheist. He did not believe in God. So he asked his son, "Why you are chanting 'Nārāyaṇa'?" "Nārāyaṇa is God, the Supreme Lord." "Eh? Supreme Lord? I am Supreme Lord. You chant my name." The boy will not hear. So there was enmity. He was persecuted. So not in this age, devotees are supposed to be persecuted all the time. Christ was crucified. So this is the position of the devotee in the material world, that they become very easily enemy of the demons. But the devotees are not afraid of the demons.

*So the purport is that yadā nārāyaṇa āyeti jagāda catur*-akṣaram. So Ajāmila was benefited, although he did not know the distinction between pious and impious activities on account of too much attachment with this material world. He was the husband of a prostitute, and he got some children. So to maintain the family and children he used to adopt any means. Never mind. He did not know what is sinful and what is not sinful. But his only credit was that he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa." He was chanting "Nārāyaṇa." It does not mean knowingly we shall commit sinful activities and chant "Nārāyaṇa." It is not meant, that. He did not know what is sin, what is not sin, what is Nārāyaṇa, but circumstantially he was doing all the sinful activities; *at the same time he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa." This is by accident. He did not know that "I am becoming sinless by chanting Nārāyaṇa." He did not have that concept. Knowingly... Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. If somebody chants the name of Nārāyaṇa knowingly, that "I am chanting the name of Nārāyaṇa; *therefore let me do, act some sinful activity," it will be counteracted. They are very sinful. They are not excused. But he was innocent. He did not know that what is the effect of sinful activities, neither he knew what is sinful activity, neither he knew what is Nārāyaṇa. Therefore it was going to his credit. The Viṣṇudūta informed the Yamadūta that "He is already cleansed. Don't worry about him," because he was chanting nārāyaṇāyeti. Nārāyaṇāyeti: "Nārāyaṇa, my dear son, please come here." He was very much attached. Yadā nārāyaṇeti jagāda. He uttered catur*-akṣaram, four words, four alphabets only, catur-akṣaram.

So Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has given in this connection many, many quotation from the śāstra how one can become free from all sinful reaction by chanting the holy name of the Lord, importance of chanting the holy name. So we are also preaching the same thing under the direction of higher authorities, Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*In this age people are generally, seventy*-five or eighty percent or ninety percent, they are all sinful. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. This is the position of the people in this age. They are mandāḥ, all bad, all bad. You cannot distinguish who is bad and who is good. All bad and very slow. They do not know what is the value of life, how to make this human form of life successful. Mandāḥ. Just like we are chanting all over the whole world that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and you will be happy." Still, they are not very much interested. Mandāḥ, slow: "All right, I shall do it at the time of death. Now let me enjoy." Mandāḥ. And manda-matayo. And if one is interested for spiritual advancement of life, he will go to some rascal, some avatāra, some yogi, some bluffer, some magician, as spiritual salvation. Mandaḥ manda-matayo. Why they are attracted by these rascals? Manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. Kṛṣṇa says directly, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. They will not hear Kṛṣṇa. They will hear these rascals, so-called yogis, so-called avatāras, so-called mahātmās. Manda-bhāgyāḥ. Therefore upadrutāḥ. They are always, constantly, disturbed. This is the position.



*So therefore this age, Kali*-yuga, is the ocean of faulty things. Doṣa-nidhi. Nidhi means ocean. And you will find... Just like unfathomed water in the ocean, Pacific Ocean, similarly, this Kali-yuga is the ocean of unfathomed sinful activities. Kalau doṣa-nidhe. But Śukadeva Gosvāmī said to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, kalau doṣa-nidhe rājan hy asti eko mahān guṇaḥ. In this age this ocean of faults, there is a very valuable thing. That is special concession to these fallen souls of this age. Because Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He is always anxious to deliver us. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmyaham [Bg. 4.7]. He is father. He is the seed-giving father of all living entities. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, mamaivāṁśaḥ. So He is very unhappy. Of course, He cannot be unhappy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). But at least, because we are His sons and we are rotting in this material world for sense gratification, in this way He is very sorry. Therefore He comes and teaches us, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām: [Bg. 18.66] "You rascal, why you are going here and there? Just surrender unto Me. I will give you..." But still, the rascals will not take.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*Because they have been trained up with the atheistic temperament they will never surrender. They will go on committing sinful life, duṣkṛtina. They do not know what is the value of life, mūḍha. And in spite of getting this human form of life, still, they remain mūḍha. Therefore narādhamā, lowest of the mankind. "No. They are passing M.A., B.A. examination, and so many titles, academic career." Māyayāpahṛta*-jñānāḥ. This kind of knowledge has no value. The value is already taken away. Therefore you will find highly educated person: he is committing sinful life, organized. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. He does not know how to live. Why? The basic principle is āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they have taken the atheistic way of life, therefore they are suffering.



*So this is the position of this age, and the one benefit is that kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... Particularly says, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51]. Kṛṣṇa and Rāma. Kṛṣṇa means including Rāma and other incarnations. This is the statement in the śāstra.

*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam aham bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa has so many expansion, rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu: Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, ity ādi. So Kṛṣṇa is existing with innumerable expansion of His form. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanam [Bs. 5.33]. So Hare Kṛṣṇa and Hare Rāma. Therefore it is enjoined by the śāstra, "Chant these two names: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare." So Rāma and Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, and Hare means Harā. So Harā means the potency, pleasure potency of the Supreme Lord, Harā. It is addressed as Hare. So Hare Kṛṣṇa means Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, and Hare Rāma means Sītā-Rāma. So either you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Sītā-Rāma, it is the same. And this is the only way. This is only. There is no difficulty. So however your condition may be fallen, take this instruction of the śāstras and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



Thank you very much. (end)



710115SB.ALL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatām 6.2.9-10

-

Allahabad, January 15, 1971



*Haṁsadūta: Sixteen heads arrived at the Kumbha*-melā, January 5, 1971. Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived on the morning of January 13, 1971, and the following lectures were recorded beginning January 15, 1971, at the Kumbha-melā, crossing of Kali and Yamunā roads, just across from the Hanumān Mandira, a temple which is said to be at least one million years old. Prabhupāda said it was standing since the time of Lord Rāmacandra. [break]



*Prabhupāda: (recites prema*-dhvani prayers, etc.) We have been discussing Ajāmila's upākhyāna after finishing the speeches by the Yamadūta, assistants of Yamarāja, the superintendent of judgment after death. Yamarāja is one of the appointed officers, mahājanas. He's a Vaiṣṇava, but his thankless task is that he has to punish all the sinful activities. That is his position. Just like superintendent of police, he is also a government officer, responsible officer, respectful servant of the government, but the task is simply to chastise the sinful persons. So if such person is required in ordinary government, why not a similar personality in the government of the Supreme Person? Because from the Vedānta-sūtra we understand that everything that we experience within this world, they are emanation from the Absolute Truth. So this intelligence, that one person should be in charge of the criminal department, has come from the Absolute Truth. Otherwise there was no possibility. It is not an human invention. We should always understand, whatever we experience within this world, that is emanation from the Absolute Truth. As Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the original source of everything that you experience."



*So the assistants of Yamarāja charged that "This man was throughout his whole life a sinful man. Therefore he is punishable and we must take him to the Yamarāja." And the Viṣṇudūtas protested that "Even though he was sinful throughout his whole life, because he once uttered the holy name of Nārāyaṇa some way or other*-it doesn't matter-therefore he is now free from all reaction of sinful life." And he has spoken that there are different kinds of sinful life, and he has described some of them. Stenaḥ. Stenaḥ means stealing, thieves, burglars. They are very sinful. Stenaḥ; *surā*-paḥ, drunkard, intoxicant, those who are addicted to intoxication. So stealing and drinking, these are the honorable occupations of the moralist. But they are condemned by the Yamarāja..., by the Viṣṇu... Stenaḥ surā-po mitra-dhruk [SB 6.2.9]. One who is unfaithful to his friends, mitra-dhruk; *brahma*-hā, one who has killed a brāhmaṇa or a Vaiṣṇava, brahma-hā. And guru-talpa-gaḥ: and one who has dishonored a spiritual master or teacher. Strī-rāja-pitṛ-go-hantā, one who has killed a woman, one who has killed a king, and one who has killed a cow. These are all the severest type of sinful activities. Ye ca pātakino 'pare. Some of the sinful activities are mentioned here. And besides these sinful activities, there are other, many.

*So the Viṣṇudūtas say that "Even though one has committed so many sinful activities, if at the..., if once he utters the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, he becomes free immediately." That's a fact. It is not exaggeration. A sinful man, someway or other, if he chants this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he immediately becomes free from all reaction. But the difficulty is that he commits again. That is nāmāparādha, offense. There are ten kinds of offenses. This is the severest offense, that after being freed from all sinful reaction by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if he again commits the same sin, that is a grievous criminal action. For ordinary man it may not be so severe, but one who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if he takes advantage of this mantra, that "Because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, even though I commit some sin, I'll be free," he'll be free, but because he is offender he will not achieve the ultimate goal of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Because he'll be freed, and again he'll commit-freed, again he'll commit*-in this way there will be no chance of his liberation. But don't think that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra one's sinful reactions are counteracted. That is not exaggeration. That's a fact. The difficulty is that one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, again commits sin, that is greatest sin. That is the greatest offense.

*Sarveṣām apy aghavatām idam eva suniṣkṛtam. Suniṣkṛtam. Nāma*-vyāharaṇaṁ viṣṇor yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ. Now, the Viṣṇudūta says, sarveṣām apy aghavatām. Aghavatām means those who are sinful. Agha means sin, and vatām means who are possessors of sinful life. Sarveṣām, "Of all kinds of sinful persons," sarveṣām apy aghavatām idam eva suniṣkṛtam, "this is the only process by which he can become immediately freed from the reaction." Idam eva suniṣkṛtam. What is that? Nāma-vyāharaṇam: "Simply chanting this mantra," vyāharaṇa. Nāma-vyāharaṇaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Not that any other name. The foolish persons, they say that "You chant any name, any name," sometimes demigods' names, sometimes his beloved's name. They think that any name, chanting... Because the Māyāvādīs, they think that everyone is God-"Even the demigods, they are God. I am God. You are God"-therefore they say that any name you chant and you will be free. But that's not a fact. Here it is said clearly, vyāharaṇaṁ nāma viṣṇoḥ: "Only the Supreme Personality of Godhead Viṣṇu's name," viṣṇu-sahasra-nāma. There are list of one thousand names of Viṣṇu. So Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, the same, and it is stated in the śāstras that by chanting one thousand holy names of Viṣṇu you can get the result of chanting..., once chanting the name of Rāma. If you, say, only chant Rāma, by this chanting, you immediately get the result of chanting thousand times Viṣṇu's name. And by chanting three times Lord Rāma's name you get the result of chanting once Kṛṣṇa's name. Therefore by chanting Kṛṣṇa's name you get all the good results.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore recommends this. He recommends, not that He has manufactured. He recommends the shastric injunction: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. So the harer nāma or viṣṇu*-nāma or devotional service to Viṣṇu... Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. You should always remember this, because sometimes rascals mislead that "Any name." In Bengal it is very popular. There is a party, they chant kālī-kīrtana. "Kālī, Kālī, Kālī," imitation. Or there are so many so-called avatāras. There was another rascal, he added his wife's name. Yes. And the rascal, foolish scholars also accepted. Yes. "Haro kusuma, haro kusuma, kusuma kusuma, haro," like that. The rascal's name was Haro, and his wife's name was Kusuma, so he made a mantra, "haro kusuma, haro kusuma, kusuma kusuma, haro haro." (laughter) And the rascal followers also accepted that this is... So this is going on. A Māyāvādī philosophers, they are so dangerous that they mislead their followers to the hell. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore strongly warned, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] "If you attempt to hear some Māyāvādī philosopher, then your life will be spoiled. Your path to devotional service will be blocked, so don't try to hear a Māyāvādī." This is the recommendation by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So we should always remember, when there is question of chanting the holy name, that means Viṣṇu, not any other's name. Vyāharaṇaṁ viṣṇor yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ.

So there is advantage, a special advantage. What is that advantage? Immediately you become freed from all sinful reaction by chanting Viṣṇu's name, Hari's name, Hari's name, Kṛṣṇa's name. And not, even not immediately, that is the beginning of your spiritual life, because without being freed from sinful reactionary life there is no possibility of becoming a pure Vaiṣṇava. He may be a Vaiṣṇava, performing the devotional service in the routine work, but if his behavior is not sinless he is called kadācāra, sudurācāra. Of course, this sudurācāra, if it happens accidentally without any consciousness... Sometimes we commit some sinful activity without knowledge or due to my past behavior. That accident, if one repents that "I should not have done this, but I am so sinful that I have again committed this sin," so this repentance will help him to be excused by the Supreme Lord. But if one commits sinful life intentionally, that is not to be excused. That is to be taken seriously.

Just like in this place, confluence of the river of Yamunā and Gaṅgā, one of the associates of Lord Caitanya committed suicide. You know, Choṭa Haridāsa. This Choṭa Haridāsa was associate of Lord Caitanya. He was daily singing kīrtana, and he was very nice singer. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu liked him. He was one of the associates in Purī. But somehow or other, he became inclined for sense gratification. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu as Paramātmā could understand, and He immediately asked His other associates, "Not to allow this man to come before Me any more." So even Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and other big, big, big guns of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's associates, Rāmānanda Rāya, they requested that "This man is Your eternal servant. Somehow or other, he has committed this sin. So You kindly excuse him." Caitanya Mahāprabhu was so much stern in this respect that He immediately replied that "If you like Choṭa Haridāsa, better you remain with him. Let Me go away." So from that moment nobody ventured to request again Caitanya Mahāprabhu to excuse him. So when he was hopeless not to be excused by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he came here in this place, Prayāga, and in the confluence of river Yamunā and Gaṅgā he committed suicide. He drowned himself. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew also this incident. So after some time, when he died, say after some months, He simply inquired, "Where is Choṭa Haridāsa now?" So his other associates replied, "Sir, You did not accept him, so he has committed suicide." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, this is very good. This is very good." So vajrād api kaṭhora. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was sometimes harder than the stone, and sometimes He was softer than the flower.

*So that is the behavior of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sometimes He becomes very strong. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andha*-yoniṣu: [Bg. 16.19] "Those who are envious, I keep them constantly in the darkest region of hellish life." So Kṛṣṇa is very kind, but if He is angry, He is very hard also. Now, one may say, "Why God should be angry?" No, God is angry also; otherwise wherefrom this anger comes if God is not angry? Janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] everything is coming from the Absolute Truth. If God is not angry, then wherefrom this anger comes? Because He is the original source of everything. So everything is there, but His activity and our activity is different. If Kṛṣṇa is angry... Just like He becomes angry and He kills so many demons. But all of them got liberation. Therefore His anger and our anger is not the same. If we become angry unnecessarily... But sometimes we may also become angry in the service of the Lord, not for personal interest. Just like Hanumānjī. Hanumānjī, he became very angry upon Rāvaṇa and he devastated his kingdom, which was known as golden kingdom of Rāvaṇa. So not for his personal interest. Arjuna also, he was nonviolent naturally because he's a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But when Kṛṣṇa asked him to fight he became very much angry, because without being angry you cannot fight. You have to agitate your mind even artificially. Then you can fight. Therefore, when there is fight both the parties, they stood very strongly so that agitate themselves to become angry. This is the process.

*So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that we can utilize these enemies, kāma, krodha, lobha, lust, anger, greediness. They can be utilized also for Kṛṣṇa's service. Kāmī, lusty. One should be so much lusty to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like we become lusty to have our desired object, similarly, we should be lusty to work for Kṛṣṇa as a madman: "I must do it." That is the utilization of lustiness. Kāma, krodha. Krodha bhakta*-dveṣi-jane. One should be very much angry upon a person who is envious of the devotees. Yes. A pure devotee, satāṁ nindā, a pure devotee who is trying to spread the holy name of God, if somebody becomes envious upon him, that person is a great offender. So another devotee should be very much angry upon such person. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. Bhakta-dveṣi means one who is envious of a pure devotee. And who is a pure devotee? Who is trying to spread the holy name of the Lord all over the world. Satāṁ nindā. This is offense. So a devotee can utilize all these elements-lustiness, anger, kāma, krodha, greediness, and moha. Illusion also can be utilized. Just like illusion... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me: "I see everything vacant, being separated from Govinda." So when one is bewildered, illusioned, that can be also there. You become bewildered, illusioned, being separated from Govinda.

So the...

sarveṣām apy aghavatām

idam eva suniṣkṛtam

*nāma*-vyāharaṇaṁ viṣṇor

*yatas tad*-viṣayā matiḥ

[SB 6.2.10]



*So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra one becomes free from sinful reaction. Not only that, he becomes very soon a devotee. Yatas tad*-viṣayā matiḥ. Yataḥ means simply by chanting. Here it is clearly stated, nāma-vyāharaṇam, chanting of the holy name. Vyāharaṇam means chanting. Nāma-vyāharaṇaṁ viṣṇoḥ, "of Lord Viṣṇu." So not only he becomes free from all sinful reaction of his life, but yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ: his mind becomes fixed up in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So try to understand what is the result of chanting, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. So without offense, without committing offense, if we regularly chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then we remain freed from all sinful reaction of life and our attachment for the Supreme Lord in devotional service increases. Yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ. Brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādī means those who are very much fond of Vedic rituals, performances, yajñas. There was an argument, conversation with Haridāsa Ṭhākura and a brāhmaṇa. The Haridāsa Ṭhākura says that offenseless chanting of the holy name of Lord, one not only becomes free, not only he becomes brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20], but his love of Godhead manifests. The dormant love of Godhead manifests and automatically he is liberated. So that brāhmaṇa protested that "Don't exaggerate your chanting in this way. One becomes liberated after performing so much austerities, penances, and you say simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? This is too much exaggeration." So there was argument, and the argument increased, and there was cursing also, and Haridāsa Ṭhākura was a little bit agitated, and the brāhmaṇa became offender and he suffered. That incidence is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.



*So the first stage of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is full of offenses. But if one sticks to the principle... Therefore we have to chant regularly sixteen rounds at least. So even there are offenses, by simply chanting and being repentant that "I have committed this offense unnecessarily or without knowledge," so simply be repentant and go on chanting. Then the stage will come. It is called nāmābhāsa. That is offenseless, when there is no more offenses. That is called nāmābhāsa. At nāmābhāsa stage one becomes liberated immediately. And when one is liberated, if he goes on chanting*-naturally he will go on chanting-then his love of Kṛṣṇa becomes manifest. These are the three stages of chanting: chanting with offense, chanting as a liberated person and chanting in love of God. There are three stage of chanting. The same thing, the example is just like a mango, unripe mango, going on, changes. It is not that chanting brings another thing as a result. No. The same thing becomes manifest in different feature. Just like unripe mango, you taste in a different way; it is very sour. But when it is ripened and it is fully ripened, the taste is changed. The taste is now sweet.

So in the beginning we may be very much reluctant in the matter of chanting, but when you become liberated the chanting will be so sweet that you cannot give up. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. He has composed a śloka. He says in that śloka that "If I had millions of tongues and trillions of ears, then the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra would have been relishable. How, what can I do with one tongue and two ears?" So that is liberated stage. That is prema. But that stage is attainable. If you follow regularly the principles, everyone will attain to that stage when he simply likes to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: [break] ...gain commit the sins, then you have to suffer.



Guest: We say, "oṁ namaḥ śivāya, oṁ namaḥ śivāya." What is the difference, oṁ namaḥ śivāya, oṁ namo hare rāma? You say Hare Rāma mokṣa. Oṁ namaḥ śivāya is no mokṣa?



Prabhupāda: No.



Guest: Who is Śiva?



Prabhupāda: Śiva is Śiva.



Guest: No, Kārttikeya, who...? Daitya...?



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but Śiva is Śiva.



Guest: Śiva, is he not a god?



Prabhupāda: He's a demigod.



*Guest: Devi*-god.



*Prabhupāda: Demigod, not devi*-god. Demigod.



Guest: He is also god.



Prabhupāda: Yes. God, you are also god.



Guest: We are also, get the same reward through the Hare Rāma Kṛṣṇa mūrti.



Prabhupāda: No, no.



Guest: That is, increases, eh?



Prabhupāda: If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa you'll get the different result. And if you chant Śiva's name you'll get different result.



Guest: Which is the best?



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Yamunā: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: If you chant Lord Śiva's name you will get material opulence, but if you chant Lord Viṣṇu's name, then you'll be transferred to the spiritual world. So we have to be very cautious. Just like a person, after being freed from the diseased condition, he is in convalescent stage. In convalescent, again if he does something wrong, the disease is relapse. Then, at that time, one has to be very careful, not that "Because I have become liberated, I'll do anything," no. That is going on. Just like we Indians, we have become independent, and therefore we are doing anything we like and we are conditioned now again.



Guest: (Hindi) [break]



Prabhupāda: ...of Brahman. You are also Brahman. So your manifestation and Lord Śiva's manifestation is not the same. So there are different grades of manifestation. We have to know that. Although the thing is one but there are different manifestation, not that because everything is one, that everyone is the same. No. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Haṁsadūta: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Prabhupāda just gave a wonderful example which I will repeat. He said that everything is one, just like wood. Wood in the primary stage is wood, and then in the smoking stage it's also wood. And then in the fire stage it is also wood, but fire is required. So in three stages... So similarly, the Supreme Lord is manifest as Brahmā, Śiva, and Viṣṇu. So it is compared to the wood. (end)





710116SB.ALL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.11

-

Allahabad, January 16, 1971



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (sings maṅgalacaraṇa prayers) (aside:) That's all right.



*na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma*-vādibhis

tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ

*yathā harer nāma*-padair udāhṛtais

*tad uttamaśloka*-guṇopalambhakam

[SB 6.2.11]



*Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma*-vādibhiḥ. There are twenty kinds of religious scripture, out of which, Manu is considered to be the greatest. So they have prescribed many methods for getting oneself released from the reaction of sinful activities. Every one of us, anyone who is engaged in karma... Karma means pāpa, sinful activities. And karma means one who is working for his own benefit. He is karmī. The whole world is working so hard not for others' benefit but his personal benefit. That is called karma. Try to understand what is karma. Karma means anyone who is working very hard day and night for his own benefit. That is called karma. And whenever you perform karma for your personal interest there must be some sinful activity. Therefore every karmī is a sinful man. It is clear understanding. No karmī can be without being sinful. Every karmī is. Therefore how to work?



*Just like government gives you license, say for... One is... Every businessman is given some license. The municipality gives license. The sales tax department gives license, certificate. There are so many licenses a businessman has to follow, income tax licenses. But there are rules and regulations because all these departments know it very well that any businessman or karmī, he is sure to commit sinful activities. Therefore there are so many regulations just to stop him as far as possible from sinful activities. Similarly, there are twenty kinds of viṁśati*-prakāśa-dharma-śāstra. How one can live faithfully, religiously, the directions are there in twenty kinds of scriptures made by Parāśara, Manu, and many other sages. There are different types. So therefore it is said here that na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādī means those who are trying to lead persons to realize Brahman. The whole direction of the Vedic injunction is to understand that "I am not this material body; *I am spirit soul." And in order to understand this factual position there are so many directions in the dharma-śāstra or religious scriptures. And you'll find here the Yamadūta or Yamarāja will speak, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19].

*Really, originally, the, I mean to say regulator of religious principle is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is sometimes addressed as dharma*-setu. Setu means bridge. We have to cross over. The whole plan is that we have to cross over the ocean of nescience in which we are now fallen. The material existence means it is ocean of ignorance and nescience, and one has to cross over it. Then he gets the real life. This is not real life. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. We are... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. People are so foolish. They do not take it very seriously because they do not know that they are eternal. That is another ignorance. Bhagavad-gītā begins from this knowledge that living soul is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. But they are in ignorance. They take it as a matter of fact that "This life, this body, is all in all, and after death there is no more any body, so who cares for sinful activities?" That is another ignorance. And in order to give them direction there are so many religious scriptures in human society. Therefore it is said, dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If one is not following the principles of religious scriptures... It doesn't matter whether it is Hindu religion or Christian religion or Muslim religion. It doesn't matter. But human civilization, a civilized human being must follow some religious principles. That is the aim of human life. And anyone who does not follow any religious scripture, he is simply animal. That is the position of the present world. We may claim to be Hindu or Muslim or Christian, but nobody cares for religion. They are simply karmīs. Therefore they are all sinful.

*Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma*-vādibhiḥ. Now here the Viṣṇudūta says that "The direction given in the religious principles, to get out of reaction of the sinful activities, they are not sufficient." Just like in Christian religion there is the direction that if anyone is sinful he should go to a priest and confess that "I have committed these things." And if the priest or the father who is supposed to be representative of God or Christ, if he excuses for his confession, then his sinful activities become null and void. Here it is said, na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhis tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān. Just try to understand that this direction cannot purify the sinful man so nicely because the same man who has confessed that "I have committed these sins," he again comes out of the church and again commits the same sin. Therefore he is not purified. He is not purified. Here it is said, na viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ. It is not only in Christian religion. In every religion there are some prescribed method that... Accepting as a matter of fact that every man is sinful, therefore in religious scriptures there are certain methods to purify them. But here the Viṣṇudūta says that these prescribed methods, although they are authorized and fact, but they cannot purify the heart of the follower of that religion. And you can see that as our Hindu-Muslim religion, even they perform the ritualistic ceremonies, they do not cease from committing the sins. Just like a rascal patient. He goes to the physician. The physician gives some medicine and gives some direction that "You take this medicine. Do not do this. You do not eat so many things. You eat like this." But he takes the medicine. For the time being he follows and again he commits the same mistake and again he goes to the physician and "Doctor, please give me medicine." This is going on.

So this kind of treatment is not accepted by the Viṣṇudūta. Therefore it is said, tathā viśuddhyaty,

na tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ

*yathā harer nāma*-padair udāhṛtais

*tad uttamaśloka*-guṇopalambhakam



*So this is the superexcellence of chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa or God. Here it is said that "Such description or prescription for performing ritualistic ceremony, they are not sufficient to purify a man." But if one chants the holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, yathā harer nāma*-padair udāhṛtaiḥ, padaiḥ, once, once only, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, Nārāyaṇa... So harer nāma, not other name, only harer nāma. Yathā harer nāma-padair udāhṛtaiḥ. Simply once chanting. Uttamaśloka-guṇopalambhakam. The purification of chanting harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21] means as soon as you chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa immediately you will see the form of Kṛṣṇa, you will realize the qualities of Kṛṣṇa, you will immediately remember the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. That is pure chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is the commented by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, that a pure devotee who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, immediately all these-nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā, parikara, vasiṣṭha... Simply by chanting name you will feel the form of Kṛṣṇa: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." Nāma, rūpa, guṇa. "Here are the qualities. Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so qualified. He is so kind. He is so magnanimous." So many qualities you will remember. Nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā. Then His pastimes. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa instructed Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa played with His cowherd boys. Kṛṣṇa had very nice talks with the gopīs, with His mother Yaśodā." These things will be remembered. That is factual perfection of chanting, that Ajāmila...



*Ajāmila in his previous life, although he became fallen in later age, but he was a brahmacārī. He was being trained by his father and he knew the pastimes, the form, the name of Nārāyaṇa. But by bad association for the time being, he forgot. But as soon as he chanted the name of Nārāyaṇa he remembered all these. Therefore he was saved. Try to understand this. One should know the offenseless chanting means remembering the form. Therefore Māyāvādī, those who are impersonalists, they cannot think of the form of the Lord, neither of the pastimes. They do not believe in the pastimes of the Lord. They think these pastimes means it is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's transcendental pastimes, they think it is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's form, it is māyā because they are impersonalists. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma me divyam. The rascals, they cannot understand what are the activities, pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. They think it is māyā. But they are divyam, transcendental, not of this material nature. Kṛṣṇa*-līlā is not of material nature. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows factually, in truth, he only is immediately liberated. Just try to tally. Here it is said that Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, simply by chanting this holy name, if immediately you remember what is the nature of the form of Kṛṣṇa, what is the nature of His pastimes, what is the nature of entourage, then you immediately become liberated. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*Therefore chanting is so easy and sublime. One who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if he is offenseless he'll always remember Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's qualities, Kṛṣṇa's entourage. The whole thing will be remembered and that will make him liberated. Offenseless chanting means liberated. We should therefore (be) very much careful not to commit offenses. Then we remain always... So long you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you remain liberated. And actually ayi mukta*-kalir upaśyamāna. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has said that the chanting is possible only by the liberated soul. Ayi mukta-kalir upaśyamāna. When he is addressing the holy name he says mukta-kalir upasya: "Those who are liberated, they can chant offenseless or pure holy name of the Lord." Ayi mukta-kalir upaśyamāna. And Parīkṣit Mahārāja also has stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... What is that verse? I immediately forget. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. What is that śloka? Catur-māsa, can you remember? Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt, virajyeta pumān vinā paśughnāt [SB 10.1.4]. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. Yes, I remember now. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt, that "The holy name of Kṛṣṇa can be chanted by persons who are nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ." Nivṛtta means those who are completely ceased from material desire. He can chant. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. The holy name of God, Kṛṣṇa, can be chanted by persons who are completely liberated from all kinds of material desire. That is pure stage of devotional service.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*One who has become completely freed from all kinds of material desires... Jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jñāna-karmādy... Jñāna, cultivation of knowledge, and cultivation of pious activities, that is also on the material field. The pious... To become very pious man does not mean that he is a liberated man. He is good man, on the platform of the quality of goodness, but he is not a liberated man. Try to understand. A good man is not a liberated man. Good man is also conditioned soul. He is bound up by good condition. Just like to become a brāhmaṇa. That does not mean that... He has acquired the good qualities but that does not mean that he is a devotee. You will find in this prayer. You will find many good men but you will find rarely a pure devotee. So good man is not a devotee. Try to distinguish. Good man is good for this material existence but devotee is different from good man. A devotee...



Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is killing, engaged in killing. People may think that "Oh, Arjuna is not very good man. He is killing his grandfather, he is killing his, what is called, nephews, and devastating the whole family. Oh, he is not a good man." Sometimes comment, people comment like that. But Kṛṣṇa says, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: [Bg. 4.3] "You are My very dear friend." Just try to understand. In the estimation of the material world he is a very good man, er, he is not a good man because he is killing his own kinsmen. But in the estimation of Kṛṣṇa, he is dear friend and devotee. So that is the difference between a devotee and good man of this world. A devotee is naturally very good man, but when he acts just like a bad man on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he does not fall down. He still remains a pure devotee.

*So here it is said that yad uttamaśloka*-guṇopalambhaka. We have to... Just like there are some sahajiyas. They think that "Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā is very nice, but Kṛṣṇa's fighting with the demons and killing of the demons, that is not very nice." But they do not know the Absolute Truth, that Kṛṣṇa is as good in any circumstances, either He is enjoying the company of the gopīs or He is killing the demon. That is the Absolute Truth. So these things should be understood. So any kind of līlā, yad uttamaśloka-guṇānu, līlā, any kind of Kṛṣṇa's activities, if you remember by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you are liberated. Immediately you are liberated, from the authoritative description of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādibhiḥ, those who are very much anxious to realize Brahman, they have prescribed so many methods, ritualistic methods, but they are not sufficient because such things cannot elevate a person to the standard of a pure devotee. He may...

*Just like this arrangement, this Kumbha*-līlā arrangement, is a prescription by the Brahmavādīs. There is a prescription that one should go during this time, maghamelā, and live in the confluence, on the bank of the confluence of Gaṅga and Yamunā and at least three days he must live. Then he becomes eligible to enter into the heavenly kingdom. These people who have come here, their ambition is to enter into the heavenly kingdom. But a devotee does not care for heavenly kingdom. A devotee cares a very fig in any planet within this material world. As Kṛṣṇa says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino arjuna. Means they know what is the benefit of entering into heavenly kingdom. There is no benefit. Suppose I may get thousands of years' age and I enjoy very high standard of life, woman, money, wine. Just think. But what is the benefit? There is no benefit. I was very glad to read one article sent by Satsvarūpa in Boston. He has said, "What is this society, family? It is all hellish. We do not wish to live without Kṛṣṇa." Very nice statement. That is real realization. We do not like to live without Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who has realized it that "Any amount of material happiness is to be kicked out. We don't care for it. We simply care for Kṛṣṇa, how Kṛṣṇa will be happy," that is pure devotee. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Ānukūlyena means favorably. We should simply try to please Kṛṣṇa favorably, not unfavorably.

Just like Kamsa. Kamsa was also Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but that was unfavorably. His business was how to kill Kṛṣṇa. He was thinking of Kṛṣṇa but his business was he was thinking, "How to kill Kṛṣṇa?" That is prātikūla. Prātikūla is not bhakti. When you think of Kṛṣṇa against His desire, against the principle of satisfying Him, that is not bhakti, although that is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. An enemy of Kṛṣṇa, he is also thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That does not mean that he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. He is Kṛṣṇa conscious unfavorably. Therefore it is not bhakti. You have to act favorably. So Arjuna became a devotee because he acted favorably for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. It was not favorable to the material life but it was favorable to Kṛṣṇa. That should be your business, how Kṛṣṇa should be satisfied. And therefore naturally it is concluded that "How I can satisfy Kṛṣṇa?" You have to satisfy his representative.

*Therefore we have sung just now, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. If you satisfy His representative, then He is satisfied. Just like in office the proprietor has got a head of a department. If you satisfy that head of the department the proprietor is satisfied. The report goes to the proprietor that "This man, this clerk is working very nice," so his promotion, increment of payment is already there. So a pure devotee's business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as he chants the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, immediately he remembers the whole plan, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he's a liberated person. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): (indistinct) ...wants to satisfy... (indistinct) ...satisfy the proprietor... (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (1): If one satisfies the pure devotee, he'll be satisfying Lord Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (1): Yet he was saying that the demigods are also taking part of...



*Prabhupāda: The demigods are not pure devotees. They are devotees. Just like Brahmā is the best of the demigods but he has a material desire that "I shall be the controller of the universe." Therefore he is not a pure devotee. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, kīṭa janma hau, jathā tuā dāsa, bahir*-mukha brahma-janme, nāhi mora āśa. Is not that? So a pure devotee does not try to become a Brahmā also, what to speak of other demigods, because anyone within this material world, he has got some material desire, anyone. Therefore he is not liberated. He is conditioned. Only the pure devotee who is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa by all his activities, he is liberated. What do you think, Rāmānanda? Eh? Is it clear or not? That's nice. Thank you. Yamunā devī?



Yamunā: I surrender to your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: All right. So anyone, if you have got doubt you can clear it. Now you can try to understand how powerful is this pure chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Offenseless chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means you remain liberated always. Offenseless chanting, once chanting is sufficient. But because we are not offenseless, therefore we have to make a regulated program that we must chant Hare Kṛṣṇa so many times. Otherwise one chanting of Kṛṣṇa is sufficient to make you liberated, one chant, "Kṛṣṇa," "Rāma," once, that's all, sufficient. Just like this Ajāmila. Once he chanted Nārāyaṇa. He became immediately liberated because he was offenseless. But because we cannot do that, therefore we have to make a prescription. Just like a child who cannot write very good hand. He is asked that "You write so many pages." By writing, writing, writing, writing, writing, he writes good hand. So we should not neglect. Chanting, chanting, chanting... Another... This is one side. Another side is when you become liberated the chanting will give you transcendental pleasure so that you cannot cease. You cannot cease chanting. That is another side. That is liberated stage, just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura but you must make a prescribed form that "I must chant so many times." That is for conditioned soul. When you are liberated, then there is no need of giving you direction. You'll feel transcendental pleasure by chanting. You cannot cease. Yes?



Devotee (2): (indistinct) ...was not prescribed... So how was it possible to chant the name at the time of death?



*Prabhupāda: No, when he was a boy he was doing everything. You have not heard? So svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Because he practiced sometimes before falling down, so by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra he immediately remembered that real Nārāyaṇa immediately, His pastimes, His form, everything, and therefore he became liberated. He had practiced. But for the time being his practice was stopped on account of bad association. But as soon as chanted... That is the advantage of a devotee. If you practice devotional service even for some time and if you fall down, then it will also help sometime. Nārada therefore says, tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17]. He says that a person who takes to devotional service, giving up all his prescribed duties... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Now, in course of prosecuting the devotional service, even he falls down there is no loss. Because whatever he has done, that remains his credit. Whereas a person who is following the ritualistic principles but does not develop devotional service, what will be benefit? He may get a promotion to the heavenly planet. What is that gain?



*The performance of ritualistic ceremonies according to Vedic injunction may... Just like here they are doing. They may get promotion to the heavenly planet. That much. They are not devotees. They are not eligible for entering into the kingdom of God. Therefore Nārada says, "What is the benefit?" Suppose if one performs a ritualistic ceremony and is elevated to the heavenly planet, Satyaloka, Maharloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka. There are so many higher planets, up to Brahmaloka. But Kṛṣṇa says, ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino. He has to come back again. But once you understand Kṛṣṇa in fact-janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]-once you remember Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's form, in pure devotion, he immediately becomes liberated. The karma-kāṇḍīya, they cannot understand this. Therefore pure devotion should be freed from the contamination of karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali viṣera bandha. "Either you become pious or you become very learned philosopher, they are all poison pots because by cultivating such things you cannot become liberated from this material condition."

*Therefore pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Pure devotion means one should be freed from all material desires, even from the desire of being elevated to the heavenly planet or Brahmaloka, Satyaloka-that is karma*-or to try to understand, just like the philosophists, they do. By speculation, by philosophical speculation, they try to understand what is God. So they are not pure devotion. They are karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura warns that karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali viṣera bandha, amṛta baliyā yebā khāya: "A person, by mistake if he takes to the pots of karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa, then the result is: nānā yoni bhraman kare, he wanders in various species of life, sometimes as demigods, sometimes in heaven, sometimes..." But does not mean liberation. Nānā yoni bhraman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. And within these different varieties of life he may be sometimes a worm in the stool, a hog. Kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. At that time he has to eat most abominable things. Therefore who takes to this principle-tāra janma, adho pāte yāya. If one does not take advantage of this human form of life to be a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, then he simply spoils his life. Tara janma, adho pāte yāya. Even if he is elevated to the heavenly kingdom what does he gain? He's adho pata because the next chance he may be worm in the stool. Tāra janma, adho pāte yāya. These are facts. (end)



750913SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.11

-

Vṛndāvana, September 13, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma*-vādibhis

tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ

*yathā harer nāma*-padair udāhṛtais

*tad uttamaśloka*-guṇopalambhakam

[SB 6.2.11]



*So the Viṣṇudūtas, they are instructing the Yamadūtas. They are authorized person. These Viṣṇudūta, they are authorized persons. They are not ordinary person. They are coming from Vaikuṇṭha. Just like Nārada Muni comes from higher planetary system, Vaikuṇṭhaloka. He is called deva-ṛṣi. He travels all over the universes, material and spiritual. He has got special concession. Sometimes... (child making noise*-Hindi) Sometimes we have got information the yogis, they can also travel not only within this material universe but in the spiritual. The instance of... (child making noise) Durvāsā Muni.



Durvāsā Muni, when he committed offense at the feet of Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a gṛhastha, a kṣatriya, and king. He had to rule over the kingdom. But because he was devotee, he was very respectful. So Durvāsā Muni, he was a great yogi. He became very much envious of this king, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, that "He is ordinary gṛhastha, dealing with politics, and I am a great yogi, known all over the universe, and he is more respected than me?" So he wanted to punish him to show him his yogic power. Sometimes the yogis, they get some power and misuse it for personal sense gratification. That is the pitfall of yogic perfection. Aiye. When one gets little power he misuses it and thereby falls down. So this Durvāsā Muni also, what to speak of other paltry yogis, even Durvāsā Muni, he became envious.

So one day he came to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja on the dvādaśī day with sixty thousand disciples and ordered the Mahārāja, "Mahārāja, today we have come to take prasādam in your palace. Please arrange for this." So that was dvādaśī day. You know, on the dvādaśī there was... That is a regulative principle, that in the morning at about nine o'clock one has to take something, prasādam, to break the vows, break fast. So this Durvāsā Muni along with disciples, they went to the river Ganges to take bath, but they were willfully not coming back. So Ambarīṣa Mahārāja asked the priest that "Durvāsā Muni is my guest. I cannot take anything without offering him. So what shall I do? Now I have to observe the dvādaśī breakfast." So the brāhmaṇa priest ordered him that "Mahārāja, you can take little caraṇāmṛta," the water. So according to śāstra, drinking little water is not breaking fast, so it will be not taken very... So with the advice of the brāhmaṇa... Formerly the kings, they were guided by the instruction of the brāhmaṇas and great saintly persons. They were not doing anything whimsically. That is not the fact. So with the instruction of the brāhmaṇas, he took little caraṇāmṛta. And Durvāsā Muni was a great yogi. He could immediately understand. Then he came back and became very angry. His idea was to punish him some way or other. "Give the dog bad name and hang it." This was his policy. So he was to give some bad name. So he became angry that "I am your guest and you have already taken, broken your ekādaśī fasting. So I shall teach you."

*So he immediately ordered... He plucked one hair and a great demon came. So Durvāsā Muni made his caricature of yogic power, and Ambarīṣa Mahārāja was a devotee. He did not know anything, such magic. He was pure devotee, that's all. So he could simply stand: "All right. I am faulty. You can punish me." So this great demon was coming to kill him, and a devotee has no other way than to remember Kṛṣṇa, so immediately Kṛṣṇa's sudarśana*-cakra came to protect him and the sudarśana-cakra immediately killed the demon. Then the sudarśana-cakra attacked Durvāsā Muni. So Durvāsā Muni began to flee. He went upper planetary system to Lord Śiva, Lord Brahma, and this way he wanted protection, but nobody could give protection. They said, "No, no, we cannot give you protection. Lord Viṣṇu is angry upon you. It is not possible to give you protection." So he then went to Lord Viṣṇu also in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka. Just see how much powerful he is, that he could go through the whole universe, then enter into the spiritual world, Vaikuṇṭhaloka, and he could see personally Lord Viṣṇu. And Lord Viṣṇu also denied protection, "No, I cannot give you protection. You are Vaiṣṇava aparādhī. You have offended to the Vaiṣṇava, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. You can be protected only if you go and fall down at his feet and if he excuses, then my sudarśana-cakra will not disturb."

*So this incidence... This Durvāsā Muni penetrated through the universe, went to the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, personally saw Viṣṇu. Still, he was not protected. And this time took about one year. So yogic power... My point was how yogis are powerful, that they cannot..., they can go through the space very swiftly. The modern scientists, they say that to go to the topmost planet within this universe, it will take forty thousands of years. That is their calculation. But this yogi, Durvāsā, could go through the universe*-not only universe, other, Vaikuṇṭha-so, within one year. This is called yogic power. But still, he is not as powerful as the devotee. He had to come back and fall down at the lotus feet of Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, and when Ambarīṣa Mahārāja excused him... He was a brāhmaṇa, yogi. As soon as he fell down at the feet of Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he said, "You are Durvāsā Muni. You are so great, powerful. Don't put me into this difficulty. What you want?" "Now you excuse me." "Excuse? If I have got any resultant actions of my pious activities, take everything. Take everything. You be saved." This is Vaiṣṇava, and this is avaiṣṇava.

*Therefore harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. If one may have all the good qualities but if he is not a devotee of the Lord, his good qualities have no value. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathena āsato dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. They are simply carried away by the mental concoction. This is their qualification. So karmī, jñānī, yogis, they are all restless because they are carried away by the whims of mind. And a bhakta is fixed up. Bhajate mām ananya-bhak, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso. This is devotee. They do not like to show any power. Power is already there. Just see. This Ambarīṣa Mahārāja was not a yogi. He did not know. He was simply surrendered, simply fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. But he defeated this yogi. The yogi came and fell down at his feet. So a devotee does not require to acquire any yogic power or any jñāna-siddhi or this siddhi. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

*bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta

kṛṣṇa bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta

[Cc. Madhya 19.149]



People are after śānti, peacefulness. So it is declared that nobody can get śānti, peacefulness, unless he is unalloyed devotee of Kṛṣṇa.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*This is wanted. If you have got a pinch of anyābhilāṣa, then you cannot become a pure devotee. That is not possible. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you chance to fulfill your anyābhilāṣa, not Kṛṣṇa bhakti. He can give you even mukti, but He will not give you bhakti. This is Kṛṣṇa's principle. Bhakti can be awarded to a person who is fully surrendering, one who does not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. This is the way. Therefore, it is said, na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma*-vādibhis tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ.



*In the śāstras there are different varieties of ritualistic ceremony, vratas, to counteract our sinful activities within this material world. The material world is so situated that if you do not want to become a sinful man, unless you are devotee, you will be forced to commit sinful activities. You'll be forced. Just like you are very good man, but when walking on the street you are killing so many ants. We have got experience while morning walk. You cannot avoid it. It is not possible. And you are responsible for killing the ant. Then? How you can save yourself from the sinful activities? Therefore in the śāstra it is said, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam [SB 10.14.58]. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam. If you want to stay within this material world, then padaṁ padam-"in every step there is danger." Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadaṁ na teṣām. Na teṣām. "Not for them." Who? Samāśritā ye pada*-pallavaṁ plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ: "One who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of the lotus feet of Murāri," means Kṛṣṇa. Samāśritā. Samyag āśritā. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Samyak, fully. Sama means samyak, no reservation: "Kṛṣṇa, I do not know anything more. I simply surrender unto You. Now whatever You do, accepted. If you like to kill me, kill me. If you want to give me protection, that's all right. Anyway, I am surrendered." This is called full surrender.

*So the bhakti*-mārga, it is clearly said, it is, that you cannot be purified simply by performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Na niskrtaiḥ. Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādī means... Brahma means śabda-brahma, Vedic injunction. So there are many brahmavādīs. Just like Manu-saṁhitā. Parāśara, he has made viṁśati dharma-śāstras. So they are authorized things. But still, if you follow the ritualistic ceremonies, if you make atonement according to the Vedic direction, you cannot be fully purified, fully purified, because unless you are detestful of this material existence, unless you are determined to go back to home, back to Godhead. If you want to adjust in this material world to be happy, then you have to commit sinful activities. There is no doubt about it. Therefore it is said that you cannot be purified. Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhis tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ. Aghavān. Aghavān means sinful. Every one of us who is in this material world, he is sinful. So he has to be purified. So this best purification process is devotional service. And the purification process begins-anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: [Brs. 1.1.11] when you have no more any material desires. Then you..., the purification begins.

*Sarvopādhi*-vinirmutaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam. Malam means sinful reaction. And nirmala. If you want to become completely free from all contamination of this material world... Contamination means associating with the different modes of material nature-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Even if you are associating with sattva-guṇa, still, it is contamination, what to speak of other, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Those who are contaminated by rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, they are fully engaged in lusty desires and greediness. Tadā rajas-tamo bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. Kāma, lobha, rajas, tamaḥ. The whole world is infected with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Therefore they are simply absorbed in kāma and lobha, lusty desires and greediness. Not that only the poor man is hankering after money. Even the richest man in this material world, he is also hankering after. Lobha: "I want more. I want more." Kṛṣṇa is assuring that yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: "If one is fully surrendered, I supply him personally. I carry his personal necessities," yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham, "Not that I ask somebody but I carry Myself." He is giving assurance. So why we should be hankering after other things to become happy? It is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa assures, teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22].

*So this is the special mercy for the unalloyed devotee. So unalloyed devotee means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam, sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Upādhi means artificially. "I am the husband of this wife." "I am the father of these children." "I am the inhabitants of America." "I am American." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." "I am brāhmaṇa." "I am fat." "I am thin." "I am white." "I am black." So many. These are all upādhis. So one has to become free from these upādhi. "I am not this. I am not that. I am not this." Then what you are? Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsa. When one becomes like that... "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa, gopī-bhartuḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]." This is called paramparā system. This is our real identification. Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So if you want to be happy, you cannot become happy by your so-called endeavor, by tidbits: "This I will do and I will be happy." No, this is all nonsense. You can be happy only when you fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa without any abhilāṣa.

*Therefore the... Even the big, big karmīs who are able to perform big, big costly sacrifices. Karmīs, they do big, big. You will find even nowadays... Of course, there is no yajñic brāhmaṇas at the present moment. Still, if you advertise that "Here there will be big yajña," you will get lots of brāhmaṇas immediately: "Oh, there will be yajña." But in the Kali*-yuga there is no yajñic brāhmaṇa. No yajña will be successful. Kṛte yad yajato makhaiḥ. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ [SB 12.3.52]. Makha means yajña. You cannot perform yajña now. It is not possible. Where is the ghee? Where is the grain? People are starving without food grains. How you can... Formerly tons and tons of food grains, ghee were sacrificed. That is yajña. So this is not possible. Up to Tretā-yuga it was possible. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. Meditation, this is a farce. So many foolish people, they are misled by other rascal: "meditation." What meditation? Meditation is so easy thing? Vālmikī Muni meditated for sixty thousands of years. Then he got perfection. So who will get that opportunity? It is all farce. Meditation is farce. Yajña, the so-called yajña, is also farce because there is no yajñic brāhmaṇa. The yajñic brāhmaṇa would ignite fire by mantra, not matches. So where is that yajñic brāhmaṇa? So this is not possible.

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*This is the sastric injunction. You have to take this process. If you want to be perfect, then you have to take the śāstra*-vidhi. If you don't take,



*yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na siddhiṁ sa avapnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



*If you don't accept the injunction in the śāstras, especially when Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is instructing you in the Bhagavad*-gītā... That is the essence of all śāstra. You take that. Then you will be happy. Otherwise not. So here it is said that aghavān, the sinful man, cannot be purified by simply these ritualistic ceremonies, atonement, or keeping some vow, vrataḥ. Then how it is possible? Because everyone... Yathā harer nāma. Therefore it is recommended, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva [Cc. Ādi 17.21], the same thing. You will never find the injunction of the śāstra contradictory. In the Agni Purāṇa it is said and in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata also the same thing. Agni Purāṇa says, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, and here in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam it is said, yathā harer nāma-padair udāhṛtaiḥ tad uttamaśloka-guṇopalambhakam. Harer nāma means chanting of the holy name. That is simple. But when you chant harer nāma then you gradually understand what is Hari, what is His form, what is His quality, what is His activities. Then you can understand. Because without harer nāma your heart is dirty-ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]-unless your heart is cleansed you cannot understand what is Hari, what is His name, what is His form, what is His quality, what are His activities. You cannot understand.



*Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Your blunt nonsense senses, if you utilize, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore people are not understanding Kṛṣṇa, neither they understanding the value of hari-nāma. Because their senses are blunt, contaminated with these māyic qualities, they cannot understand. But this is the only way-ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Because you have to be purified, so this is the only method. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then you will be gradually purified. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you hear, if you chant about Kṛṣṇa, Uttamaśloka, as it is said, tad uttamaśloka-guṇopalambhakam, so many benefits are there. So the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is so important that everyone should take it very seriously. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*This is the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Difficult... It is padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam [SB 10.14.58]. In this material world there is only vipada. There is no sampada. Foolishly we think that "Now I am very nice." What is nice? You have to die next moment. What is nice? But these foolish people say, "Yes, I am nice." You ask anybody, "How are you?" "Yes, very nice." What is that nice? You are going to die tomorrow. Still nice. That's all. This is going on. So it is padaṁ padaṁ yad vi... They are making scientific researches to become happy, but these rascals, they do not know how to stop death. So what is the nice? But they have no brain to understand. But Kṛṣṇa says, "These are the problems, my dear sir. You scientists, you are trying so many things." Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. First of all find out what is your problem. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. You have to take birth, you have to die, you have to suffer from disease, you have to become old. Stop it first of all; then talk of scientific advancement. Otherwise you are nonsense. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.12-14

-

Allahabad, January 17, 1971,

*at Kumbha*-melā



710117SB.ALL

*Prabhupāda: There are so many persons following their own principles of religious, ritualistic performances, but... [break] ...by remaining in the same standard. They are not improving. The spiritual life or religious life means that one should make advance towards back to home, back to Godhead, not that religious life should be followed to make some material improvement. That is not religious life. Dharma*-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. These are the principles for elevating a living entity to the highest platform. But they have taken it, generally... They perform religious ritualistic performances for getting some more money, artha. Of course, we require some money for our maintenance. That is necessary. But if we simply perform religious performances to acquire money only, that is misguided. Generally people do so. They give in charity so that they may get more money. They open dharmaśālā so that they can get more houses. That is their purpose. Or they may be elevated to the heavenly kingdom. Because they do not know what is his actual interest. The actual interest is to go back to home, go back to Godhead. This idea, perhaps not even one percent men know that the ultimate end of, ultimate goal of life is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]-Viṣṇu, God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They do not know that the real interest is to go back home, go back to Godhead. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They have accepted that "We shall be happy by adjusting this material world." Therefore they cannot make any progress.



*Actually, religion does not mean to improve your material condition. That is not religion. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata therefore says that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: [SB 1.2.6] "That type of religion is first class which elevates one to the platform of pure devotional service to the Absolute Truth." That is religion. People are not attracted to the bhāgavata-dharma, or the religion. Bhāgavata-dharma is actually sanātana-dharma. Sanātana-dharma does not mean that one must have a certain type of religious life. Sanātana-dharma means the eternal religion. Sanātana-dharma is applicable for all living entities. A living entity is eternal, God is eternal, and there is an eternal abode also. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. So the religious principles which promote a follower to the highest platform of serving the eternal, supreme God, that is called sanātana-dharma. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is first-class religion.

*Therefore here it is said, naikāntikam. Naikāntikaṁ tad dhi kṛte 'pi niṣkṛte [SB 6.2.12]. Even one becomes free from all contamination of sinful life by prosecuting the particular type of religious principles, that is not sufficient, because ultimately it cannot give any good result. Naikāntikaṁ tad dhi kṛte 'pi niṣkṛte manaḥ punar dhāvati ced asat*-pathe. Because the mind is so disturbing that even after being free from all contamination of sinful life, the mind again goes to that sinful activity. It is very difficult to control the mind. Arjuna, when he was advised to perform the haṭha-yoga system to control the mind, he flatly refused, that "I am unable to control my mind in this way." He stated that cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa: [Bg. 6.34] "Kṛṣṇa, the mind is so agitating and moving," cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi, "it is just like a madman." Just like you cannot control a madman. Sometimes you have to chain a madman for doing mischievous activities. Sometimes you have to send to some hospital for special care. So Arjuna said, cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi, balavat. And not only balavat, "is very strong," and dṛḍham, "and very strong and determined" Tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye: "If you ask me to control my mind, it is very difficult for me." Tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye vāyor api suduṣkaram: "If there is some wind, strong wind, and if one thinks that 'I shall control this wind, stop this strong blowing of wind,' as it is impossible, similarly, the movement of my mind is so strong that I cannot promise that I can control this mind." And after the statement of Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa said... Kṛṣṇa saw that His friend was becoming disappointed. Because he cannot prosecute the yoga system, so he's becoming disappointed. But He knew that Arjuna was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That was certain. Although his mind was very agitated because he was politician, he was warrior, still, his mind was fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. That He knew. Therefore He said that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā [Bg. 6.47].

*The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the technique, is that you may be engaged in various types of work, but the mind must be always fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. That art you have to learn. How it is possible? It is possible. Perhaps you have not seen*-in India the women, they go to draw water from the well and they keep on the head. They are going, but the head is so balanced that the waterpot will never fall down. There are many instances that if you learn how to keep the balance, in spite of your movement the waterpot on the head will not fall. Similarly, if you mold your life in such a way that Kṛṣṇa should always be remembered, then, in spite of your mind being very agitated, your mind will be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. That is required. Therefore in the devotional service we have got so many engagements.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*This is the art. Just like Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. He was also great emperor, and he had to rule over all over the world. Still, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayoḥ: [SB 9.4.18] he always fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. That is the art of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In spite of your all engagement, your mind should be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. Naikāntikaṁ tad dhi kṛte 'pi niṣkṛte manaḥ punar dhāvati ced asat-pathe. Because mind is inclined, inclined to go astray. Asat-pathe. Asat means this material, and pathe means way. Mind is generally attracted to this asat-pathe. but you have to draw the mind to the sat-pathe. Sat means spiritual, eternal. That is the practice.



*Tat karma*-nirhāram abhīpsatāṁ harer guṇānuvādaḥ khalu sattva-bhāvanaḥ. Therefore tat karma-nirhāram abhīpsatām. Karma. Because if you are engaged in ordinary karma... Karma I have already explained. Karma means doing something for your personal benefit. That is called karma. Or, in plain words, doing something for sense gratification, that is called karma. And as soon as you engage your activities for such sense gratification or for your personal benefit, then you have to commit sins. That's a fact. Therefore we are entangled in this birth and death problem. So here the Viṣṇudūta advises that "If you want..." Tat karma-nirhāram abhīpsatām. "If you desire at all that 'I shall be freed from the resultant action of karma,' then your duty should be harer guṇānuvādaḥ khalu sattva-bhāvanaḥ. You simply try to glorify the Supreme Lord always, twenty-four hours. That will purify you." Khalu sattva-bhāvanaḥ. Sattva-bhāvanaḥ. Śrīdhara Svāmī says, sattva-bhāvanaḥ citta-śodhakaḥ. Sattva-bhāvana means citta-śodhaka. Citta means the heart, and śodhaka, the purifying process. So instead of taking yourself to these prescribed ritualistic ceremonies, if you simply engage your mind in describing or glorifying the Supreme Personality of Godhead... That is our process. Our only objective is how to glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are writing books, we are publishing magazines, we are preaching, we are going everywhere-just to glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. That is our only business. This process is recommended here, citta-śodhaka. If you sit down and write some article on Kṛṣṇa, that means you have to concentrate on Kṛṣṇa's activities or Kṛṣṇa's devotees' activities, and that very process will purify your heart. Therefore we always recommend to our students that you write articles, read our magazine, read our book. In this way if we keep ourself... Work for Kṛṣṇa. This... We have come here in this paṇḍal or in this Kumbha-melā not for any other purpose than to glorify the Supreme Lord so that people may understand the importance of this movement. So citta-śodhaka, here recommended by the Viṣṇudūta. Viṣṇudūta means the direct associates of Lord Viṣṇu. Tat karma-nirhāram abhīpsatāṁ harer guṇānuvādaḥ khalu sattva-bhāvanaḥ. Be always engaged in glorifying the transcendental qualities of Hari. Again it is said hareḥ, not any other person, Hari, Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

athainaṁ māpanayata

*kṛtāśeṣāgha*-niṣkṛtam

*yad asau bhagavan*-nāma

mriyamāṇaḥ samagrahīt

[SB 6.2.13]



*Now, the Viṣṇudūta concludes that "This Ajāmila, we know that throughout his whole life he has simply committed sinful activities. That's a fact. We know. But at the time of his death," mriyamāṇaḥ, yad asau bhagavan*-nāma samagrahīt, "simply chanted the name of Hari, Nārāyaṇa," samagrahīt, "perfectly, without any offense." Just try to understand that simply by chanting one name only, Nārāyaṇa, samagrahīt, without any offense, he became immediately purified from all sinful activities. These are not exaggeration. This is the fact. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu should encourage,



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*You'll never find any disagreement with the śāstra, sādhu, and guru. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, sādhu-śāstra*-guru-vākya. That is our guidance. Sādhu. If you say Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a sādhu or a devotee, so His words and the words of the scriptures are the same. The sādhu will speak only on the authority of śāstra. And śāstra means the description given by the sādhu. They are correlative. And guru means who follows the sādhu and the śāstra. So these are very instructive. Sādhu who is always engaged in the service of the Lord, he is sādhu, bhakta. And śāstra. Śāstra means description of the activities of the sādhu and Bhagavān. Just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We are reading the story of Ajāmila. He became a sādhu; *therefore his description of his life is imparted here. Prahlāda Mahārāja is sādhu, Dhruva Mahārāja, a sādhu, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, a sādhu. Formerly the kings were all sādhus, rājarṣi. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā, you have heard, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Formerly the kings were so exalted and they were so nice that they were, although they were sitting on the throne, they were dealing in politics, still, they were sādhu, just like ṛṣi. There are many instances.



*So if there is one sādhu, he can make many other sādhus. Sādhu. Sādhu does not mean that he is alone enjoying the fruits of his spiritual life. Sādhu means who is trying to make others sādhu. He is sādhu. Kṛṣṇa likes such sādhu, as He has described in the last portion of Bhagavad*-gītā, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ [Bg. 18.69]. The sādhu... And sādhu means he should preach according to the scriptures, not outside the scriptures. Sādhu does not mean he malinterprets the śāstra. He should present the śāstra as it is. He should understand the śāstra as it is. And guru means who is following sādhu and śāstra. He is guru. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that sādhu, śāstra, these things should be confirmed by the spiritual master, and if we should follow these principles, sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya... We should confirmed one thing by the other, the other by another. In this way we have to make our conclusion.

*So yad asau bhagavan*-nāma mriyamāṇaḥ samagrahīt. Because the Yamadūta..., yes, Viṣṇudūta says that "We know that this person was addicted to sinful activities throughout his whole life, but at the time of his death he has remembered. He has uttered offenselessly once the name of Nārāyaṇa." But one should not think that "All right. Let us go on committing all sinful activities, and at the time of my death I shall think of Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa." That is not possible. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you practice when you are alive, when you are strong for chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa, then there may be chance. Otherwise it is not possible. Not that a layman will all of a sudden will chant "Nārāyaṇa." He must have previous practice. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā Śrī Kṛṣṇa says, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]. If you practice in your life chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa... I remember one of our teachers in our school life. He instructed that "If you always think that 'I shall pass my examination with distinction,' then you can pass in first division. If you think that 'I shall pass my examination in the first division,' then you may pass in the third division. And if you think that 'I shall some way pass my examination in the third division,' then you will fail." That means if you expect more than your capacity, then it may be possible that at the time of examination you get the right number and pass your examination.

So the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, sadā, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ, not that two hours or one hours, but one should practice. And that is the recommendation as it was followed by Haridāsa Ṭhākura. But because we cannot do that, therefore we have to engage always in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That will make me remembering Kṛṣṇa. Real fact is how to remember Kṛṣṇa. So this remembering of Kṛṣṇa by Ajāmila was not accidental. He chanted. He served Nārāyaṇa in his previous life when he was young man, but by bad association he fell down. But the effect was there at the time of his death, so much effective that the Viṣṇudūta recommends that "Because he has chanted at the time of his death the holy name of Lord, he is now free from all sinful reaction."

Now,

sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyaṁ vā

stobhaṁ helanam eva vā

*vaikuṇṭha*-nāma-grahaṇam

*aśeṣāgha*-haraṁ viduḥ

[SB 6.2.14]



*Now, it is very nice conclusion. He says, the Viṣṇudūta says, sāṅketyam. Sāṅketyam means "simply by indication." Sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyam, "or by joking." Sometimes people joke us, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Haribol." That is... That has also its effect, pārihāsyam. Sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyaṁ vā stobham, "or with devotion and reverence," stobhaṁ helanam eva vā. Or helanam means "without giving any importance, if one chants." Helanam eva vā vaikuṇṭha*-nāma-grahaṇam. Vaikuṇṭha means Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa. Vaikuṇṭha-nāma-grahaṇam aśeṣāgha-haraṁ viduḥ. But even in such way one chants the holy name, then it can vanquish immediately many millions of sinful reactions. There is another Bengali verse, eka hari-nāme, yata pāpa hare, pāpī haya tata pāpa, karibāre nahe:(?) "Once chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa's name, it has so potency, so much potencies that it can vanquish millions and millions of sinful reaction that so much a sinful man cannot commit." A sinful man can commit hundreds of thousands of sinful activities, but the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that a sinful man will be unable to commit so many sins as the name can vanquish simply by chanting once offenselessly. This is the conclusion.



sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyaṁ vā

stobhaṁ helanam eva vā

*vaikuṇṭha*-nāma-grahaṇam

*aśeṣāgha*-haraṁ viduḥ



patitaḥ skhalito bhagnaḥ

sandaṣṭas tapta āhataḥ

harir ity avaśenāha

pumān nārhati yātanāḥ



Some way or other, if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then we can save ourselves from so many troubles, as it is example. This verse shall explain tomorrow again.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750915SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.13

-

Vṛndāvana, September 15, 1975



Prabhupāda:



athainaṁ māpanayata

*kṛtāśeṣāgha*-niṣkṛtaṁ

*yad asau bhagavan*-nāma

mriyamāṇaḥ samagrahīt

[SB 6.2.13]



*The most important word here is mriyamāṇaḥ samagrahīt. Ordinarily there are discrimination of nāma, nāmābhāsa, and nāmāparādha-śuddha*-nāma, pure name; nāmābhāsa, almost pure; *and nāmāparādha, chanting the holy name with aparādha. There are ten kinds of offenses, that nāma... Nāmnād... Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the most offensive chanting is nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. One aparādha is guror avajñā. If we neglect the orders of guru and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it is aparādha, offense. Guru-avajñā śruti-śāstra-nindanam. The Vedic literature, whatever injunction is there, if I don't obey or I decry-"Oh, there are so many rules. It is not possible"-śruti-śāstra nindanam. Nāma artha-vāda. We interpret in our own way about the nāma. And to consider the holy name of Viṣṇu and other name equally potent, that is nāmāparādha. And nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. And because one is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, he thinks, "Even if I do something sinful, it will be counteracted." That is aparādha. And to instruct to a person who has no interest in hari-kīrtana, that is also aparādha. So we should not be very much interested to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness if one is not very much interested. But tactfully, if you can, just try to give him a book. In this way there are ten kinds of offenses. We have discussed many times, and I think all of you know it.



*So here it is said, mriyamāṇaḥ samagrahīt. Because at the time of death he has uttered "Nārāyaṇa," so now there is no question of offense. There is no question of. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā that yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpam: by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one gradually becomes free from all sinful reaction. Yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ. Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 7.28]. And the proof is, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā,

*anta*-kāle ca mām eva

smaran muktvā kalevaraṁ

*yaḥ prayāti sa mad*-bhāvaṁ

yāti nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ

[Bg. 8.5]



*If at the time of death one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then he is glorious. Nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ. Here is clearly said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, nāsty atra. Anta-kāle: "At the time of..." I have several times said, the test will be examined at the time of death. They say in Bengal, bhajan koro pūjān koro murte jānle haya.(?) Your austerity, penances, chanting of the holy name, all these things... Just like there is examination. Before promotion to the higher class, one is examined in the school, and the, if the marks are sufficient, then he is promoted. So our promotion will depend at the time of death, where we are going. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. We are going to change our... Death means we are going to change our body. So this change of body will be decided at the time of death. It is already decided what kind of body we are going to get, but the final decision will be taken at the time of death. That is said by Kṛṣṇa. So how the test... You... Everyone can understand. If at the time of death one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you know certainly that he has gone to Vaikuṇṭha. There is no doubt about it. Anta-kāle. And even there is aparādha, that is not taken into consideration, because at the time of death he has uttered. This is special consideration. Anta-kāle.



*Here it is said, yad asau bhagavan*-nāma mriyamāṇaḥ samagrahīt. Sama means samak, "perfectly." "Now he is quite fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. So you do not touch him. He is completely free." So if we are serious about our life, the method is very easy. The prescription is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Where is the difficulty? We are now serious. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then mind is fixed up. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. Our business is to fix up my mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting, will help us. As soon as we chant, we hear. It is not that simply by seeing Kṛṣṇa you become perfect. By hearing Kṛṣṇa also. This is also another sense. We gather knowledge from different senses. Suppose there is a good mango. So when you say, "Let me see how the mango is," but you are seeing. No, this seeing is imperfect. You take little portion of the mango and taste it; *then you can understand. So experience is gathered from different senses. Why you are giving stress only on seeing? This is foolishness. Just like you can... Even if you do not taste*-the mango seller may not allow you to taste-but you can smell. By smelling, you can understand whether the mango is good or bad. After all, you have to get experience. So why we should stress upon seeing Kṛṣṇa? That is most foolish proposal. You have other senses. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to be perceived by you by other senses. What is that? If you hear Kṛṣṇa, then you must know there is Kṛṣṇa. There is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not different from His name, from His form, either form or name or quality or paraphernalia, anything. He is Absolute. There is no duality. Anything you perceive, that is Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa temple is also Kṛṣṇa. So we have no sufficient knowledge how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to be understood by us in so many ways. So the Kali-yuga, therefore, name is so important. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. This formula should be seriously taken. Kṛtāśeṣa agha-niṣkṛtam. Aśeṣa. Unlimited amount or unlimited number of sinful activities are already finished.

*So the Yamadūta forbade them, that "Don't touch him. He is not fit for going to Yamaloka, but he is fit for going to Viṣṇuloka." Bhagavan*-nāma mriyamāṇaḥ. The most important thing is how to become successful. At the time of death chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This should be there. Bhagavan-nāma mriyamāṇaḥ. That will be the perfection of life. Then they explain,

sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyaṁ vā

stobhaṁ helanam eva vā

*vaikuṇṭha*-nāma-grahaṇam

*aśeṣāgha*-haraṁ viduḥ



*Sāṅketya. Just like sometimes on the street some outsider, seeing you, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa only by the symbolic, sāṅketya. Because they see: "They have got tilaka, kunti." Therefore these things are required. Don't become immediately paramahaṁsa*-no tilaka, no kunti and no bead bag. This is not good. Sāṅketya. So that others may understand, "Here is a Vaiṣṇava. Here is a Kṛṣṇa devotee..." And if he is simple, he'll chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." This chance should be given. Therefore it is necessary, how people can utter. That chanting may save him from the greatest danger. Therefore it is said, sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyam. If somebody jokes... Sometimes they do that. "Hare Kṛṣṇa" means he is not seriously chanting, but he is trying to joke the other party who is engaged in chanting. And that is also good, pārihāsya. During Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, the Muslims, they used to joke the Hindus, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." So the practice made them chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And the police officer was informed by the constables that "These Hindus are chanting 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " The police officer asked him, "Then why you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" By imitating, they became practiced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is so nice, even joking, symbolic. Sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyaṁ stobham. Or prema. Helanam eva vā. Without any care, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," any way, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then vaikuṇṭha-nāma grahaṇam aśeṣa agha-haram. Agha. Agha means sinful activities.



So nice thing, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, some way or other, if we can take it very seriously, then our life will be succesful at the end of life if we can chant. Therefore Yamunācārya says... Not Yamunācārya; Kulaśekhara Mahārāja. He was also emperor.

*kṛṣṇa tvadīya*-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam

*adyaiva viśatu me mānasa*-rāja-haṁsaḥ

*prāṇa*-prayāṇa-samaye kapha vāta pittaiḥ

*kaṇṭhāvarodhana*-vidhau smaraṇaṁ kutas te

[MM 33]



*He is praying, "My Lord, now I am healthy. I am quite conscious. So this time, if I absorb my mind in Your lotus feet and die, it is very good. It is very good because in the natural time of death, the three elements*-kapha, vāta-they'll be dismantled, and there will be different sounds, and mind will be distracted. Brain will be falling. So hardly there is possibility of chanting Your holy name. The best thing is: now I am feeling healthy. My whole system, physical system, is quite fit. Let me chant and die immediately." This is desire of the devotee.



So we should keep ourself... Kṛṣṇa is also very kind. If you chant seriously, without offense, even the mental condition at the time of death is disordered, Kṛṣṇa will help you how to chant without any offense. So we must... The only qualification is that we must be very sincere. Even by symbolic chanting, by joking, if one can get the benefit, why not do it carefully? Why not do it carefully? What is the wrong there? Be serious and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa very carefully in order to get success of life at the time of death.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. (end)





750917SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.14

-

Vṛndāvana, September 17, 1975



Prabhupāda: All right. Sāṅketyam, "indication."



sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyaṁ vā

stobhaṁ helanam eva vā

*vaikuṇṭha*-nāma-grahaṇam

*aśeṣāgha*-haraṁ viduḥ

[SB 6.2.14]



*Everyone should know, viduḥ. Generally we do not know what is the power of vaikuṇṭha*-nāma.



*nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija*-sarva-śaktis

tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ

etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavan mamāpi

durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ



Caitanya Mahāprabhu regretted that the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that all the potencies or all the energies in the Absolute Person, the same thing you'll find in His name, in His form. But these things are not understood by less intelligent class of men. To understand these things means to know Kṛṣṇa in truth.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*This is tattva, truth, that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, His holy name, His form, His attributes, His pastimes, His paraphernalia, His dhāma... Just like we are in Vṛndāvana*-dhāma. So why Vṛndāvana-dhāma is worshiped? Because the Vṛndāvana-dhāma is not different from Kṛṣṇa. When you take little dust of Vṛndāvana-dhāma and take it, that means you are taking the dust of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, and you take it. Vṛndāvana-dhāma, so important.



*So Vṛndāvana*-dhāma, ordinary man cannot see. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says,

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhabo śrī yugala*-pīriti



viṣaya chādiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana

*kabe hāma herabo śrī*-vṛndāvana



Vṛndāvana, if you come from anywhere by the train and airplane and see Vṛndāvana, that is not seeing Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana seeing means



viṣaya chādiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana

*kabe hāma herabo śrī*-vṛndāvana



*When we shall be free from viṣaya... Viṣaya means āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. So who can give up viṣaya unless he is a great devotee? Others cannot. Viṣaya, it is very difficult. But if one is advanced devotee-paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]*-they can give up. So if you come to Vṛndāvana and arrange for a viṣaya-bhoga-āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam-then Vṛndāvana is far away. Viṣaya chādiyā. The whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is on the basis of viṣaya chādiyā. And Śrī Locana dāsa Ṭhākura also sings, viṣaya chādiyā se rase majiyā, mukhe bolo hari hari. Viṣaya chādiyā. If... Of course, in the beginning it is not possible, but the ultimate goal of life is to give up viṣaya-no more āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. That is called viṣaya chādiyā. Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī did. He came here, lived in Vṛndāvana. He was a very, very rich man's son. Five hundred years ago his father's income was twelve lakhs of rupees. Now it may be crores of rupees. Five hundred years He was such a rich man's son. And very beautiful wife. Because Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was restless, he was always trying to go with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, so his father and uncle He was the only son of these two brothers. So they thought that "This boy is very restless. He wants to go away with Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Let him have a very nice, beautiful wife and he'll be attracted." But he was not attracted. He was not even going inside the house. He was lying down outside the house, young man. He had no taste for viṣaya. Viṣaya chādiyā. Therefore later on he became Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. Formerly he was simply Raghunātha, and when he joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he became Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī.



*So he was eating... He was living in Rādhā*-kuṇḍa, you know, all Vṛndāvana-vāsīs. He was eating every alternate days a little butter. That's all. So āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. This is... The more you have become free from nidrā, means sleeping; āhāra, eating; and vihāra, sex; *and... Nidrāhāra*-vihārakādi. And so far bhaya, a devotee is not fearful of anything.

*nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

*svargāpavarga*-narakeṣu

*narakeṣu api tulyārtha*-darśinaḥ

[SB 6.17.28]



*A devotee is not interested whether he is going to hell or heaven. Everything is, for him... He knows hell is also kingdom of God and heaven is also kingdom of God. A devotee's kingdom of God means where he gets the chance of serving the Lord. That is wanted. So sāṅketyam. Therefore in the Hindu families they keep the name of the children with the God's name. Just like this Ajamila, although he was a very, very sinful man, still, because the culture was there, he kept his son's name Nārāyaṇa. He did not lose the culture, although he was so much sinful. The culture is so important. Still in India, as there is very, very good propaganda to make the people godless atheist, still, you see, find, in Vṛndāvana thousands and lakhs of people are coming. It is their birthright. Not only in Vṛndāvana, we have seen wherever we held that Hare Kṛṣṇa festival, thousands of men were coming. Even the so*-called educated. When we held that ceremony in Delhi, L.I.C. Ground, many, many secretaries, officers, they came and they were dancing with their hat-coat-pant. So it is so nice.



So some way or other, if you be in touch with this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, then your life is successful.

*Sāṅketyam. You keep your children's name just like he kept, Nārāyaṇa. He actually became delivered because he kept his son's name Nārāyaṇa. Sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyam. Joking. Sometimes they joke: "Oh, these people are chanting 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa,' " and they joke also, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" sometimes seriously, sometimes joking. So joking, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa*-that is taken to their credit, although he is joking; he is not serious. Sāṅketyaṁ pārihāsyaṁ stobham. Sometimes we make fun. To complete one sentence sometimes we, "Hari," "Kṛṣṇa," we add it. So that is also accepted. And then helanam eva vā. Helanam eva vā. Just like sometimes in the Western countries there is propaganda, as it was in Germany. Now they are going in Japan: "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people are very bad." But he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. While saying that "Hare Kṛṣṇa people are very bad," but the "Hare Kṛṣṇa" is chanted. The helanam eva vā. And that is going to their credit. Although they are going to say Just like "Rāma chor nāhe," and somebody heard, "Nāhe Rāma chor." So "Rāma chor," but because he uttered the name Rāma, even he says, "Rāma chor," he gets the benefit. Sometimes they joke, "Kṛṣṇa is Mākhanchor." So he is accusing "chor," but because he is chanting "Kṛṣṇa" he is getting the benefit.

*So some way or other... Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. This is the process. Somehow or other, you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa. Yena tena prakāreṇa. Without any regulative principle? Yes. Sarve vidhi*-niveṣedhāḥ syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. If you some way or other think of Kṛṣṇa, then the vidhi-niṣedhā, vidhi-niṣedhā, regulative principle and forbidden things Just like we have got our regulative principle that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra at least sixteen rounds." This is called vidhi. And niṣedhā: don't have illicit sex, don't eat meat, don't have intoxication, don't indulge in gambling. These are niṣedhā. So sarve vidhi-niṣedhāḥ syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. As soon as you go on chanting the holy name of the Lord, vidhi, sixteen round, this niṣedhā will automatically follow. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. This is the process.

*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

*hṛdy antaḥ*-stho hy abhadrāṇi

*vidhunoti suhṛt*-satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*This is the process. Somehow or other, yena tena prakāreṇa, you think of Kṛṣṇa, you chant Kṛṣṇa's name, you just offer your obeisances, and... This temple is here. There are many temples. What is the process? Process... If somebody comes here, he immediately think of Kṛṣṇa. By seeing Kṛṣṇa's Deity... Kṛṣṇa's Deity and Kṛṣṇa is not different. So even if he thinks that it is some stone Deity, but Kṛṣṇa's stone Deity... Therefore "Kṛṣṇa's," he says-that will benefit him. Some way or other, he is chanting "Kṛṣṇa." "Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma is very nice in this temple." So that "Kṛṣṇa" and seeing Kṛṣṇa, thinking of Kṛṣṇa, chanting Kṛṣṇa Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī [Bg. 18.65]. And if you worship Kṛṣṇa, offer ārātika, bhoga, decorate with flowers Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan mandira-mār...** Even you wash this temple, you get the benefit. Somehow or other, be in touch with this temple, with the holy name, with the Vaiṣṇava. In this way, by constant association-saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ*-by association of devotees, you become a Kṛṣṇa devotee.



Actually it is happening. In your country, the Europeans and Americans, say, ten years before the beginning of this movement, you did not know Kṛṣṇa, every one of you. That's a fact. How you are now mad after Kṛṣṇa? It is simply because by association. So association is so important thing. You boys and girls in your country, you were so luxuriously living. Why you have left everything and you are after a beggar sannyāsī? It is the association. The association is so strong. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says,

*tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vās

janame janame mor ei abhilāṣ



*"Let me engage myself in the service of the Gosvāmīs and associate with the devotees. I do not want anything." Janame janame mor ei abhilāṣ. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said that kīṭa*-janma hau, jathā tuwā dās. This association. "Let me become a worm, not a devotee, even worm." Kīṭa. Kīṭa means worm, an insignificant ant, worm. Better to remain as an ant with the association of devotees than to become a Brahmā without any devotee's association. Brahmā-janme nāhi mora āś. Bahir-mukha brahmā-janme, nāhi mora āś, kīṭa janma hau, jathā tuwā dās. This is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's hankering. So some way or other, we are propagating this association, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Why? Why we are establishing so many centers? Just to give the people in general the chance of association. It is very important thing, association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ.



*So either kāma or lobha or bhaya or enviousness, some way or other connect with Kṛṣṇa. Just like the gopīs. The gopīs, they liked Kṛṣṇa. They did not know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. They did not know. They liked Kṛṣṇa. He was a very funny boy, young boy, very beautiful, and these girls were attracted. They went to Kātyāyanī: "Mother Kātyāyanī, please give Kṛṣṇa as our husband." Their only prayer was that. They did not go to Kātyāyanī for begging: dhanaṁ dehi, rūpaṁ dehi, yaśo dehi-no. "Give me Kṛṣṇa. Give me Kṛṣṇa." So there is no harm to worship the deity, I mean to say, other demigods. But that is not possible for anyone. That was possible only for the gopīs, because they did not know anything except Kṛṣṇa. Wherever they go, they want Kṛṣṇa. But we worship demigods not for Kṛṣṇa*-for my sense gratification. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñāna yajanty anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. When we worship any other demigods... Just like you worship Gaṇeśa for siddhi, ṛddhi-siddhi. You will find in mercantile shop, namo gaṇeśāya namaḥ ṛddhi-siddhi kurdan mile(?). So similarly, we worship Goddess Durgā for beautiful wife. These are prescribed in the śāstras, that "If you want this, then you worship this Deity. If you want this, then you worship this Deity." So different worshipers of demigods, they are meant for satisfying the senses. But Kṛṣṇa is not that. You cannot satisfy your senses by worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is not order-supplier: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, please give me this. Then I shall worship You." Kṛṣṇa does not accept such worship. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam: [Bg. 18.66] "You first of all surrender to Me. I am not your order-supplier." This is Kṛṣṇa's worship. So those who are not taking Kṛṣṇa as order-supplier, those who are accepting Kṛṣṇa as order-carrier, he will be successful. Otherwise it will take time. Don't take Kṛṣṇa as your order-carrier, order-supplier. You become. Hṛṣīkena-hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means when you engage your senses for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. And if you take Kṛṣṇa for satisfying your senses, just like you worship other demigod, that is not bhakti. That is not bhakti.

*So helanam eva vaikuṇṭha-nāma-grahaṇaṁ aśeṣāgha-haraṁ viduḥ. So some way or other, if we are engaged in chanting the Vaikuṇṭha-nāma Vaikuṇṭha-nāma. Vaikuṇṭha is Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Vigata-kuṇṭhād yasmād iti vaikuṇṭha. Here in the material world you are always filled up with kuṇṭha, anxieties. And if you go to Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa, then there is no more kuṇṭha, full freedom without anxiety. Because even if you realize yourself that you are part and parcel of Parabrahman, when you realize Brahman yourself, not this body, immediately you become jolly. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. There are many sannyāsīs who are brahmavādī. So as soon as they feel "Ahaṁ brahmāsmi," they are no more in anxiety of this material world. And if you increase that-Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān That simple Brahman realization, it is knowledge that "I am not this, but I am that." Neti. But that knowledge will not be sufficient. You have to make progress further because we are by nature ānandamāya. Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. Our nature is to search after ānanda. So simply Brahman realization will not give you ānanda. Therefore we see sometimes big, big sannyāsīs, they gave up this world as brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but because they could not get ānanda, they come down again. Again they become busy in opening hospital and school and philanthropic work, politics, because they could not get ānanda. That is the defect of the impersonalists. They can simply understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body. I am not matter. I am spirit." But that much understanding will not help. It may be helpful for some time, but because he is bereft of ānanda, he will fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Ānanda you cannot get without being a servant of the Supreme Lord. That is ānanda, reciprocation(?). That is Vṛndāvana. There is ānanda, cinmāya, ānanda, because everyone is engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. The cowherd boys, the calves, the cows, the birds, the beasts, the trees, the water, the father, mother, playmates-everyone*-Kṛṣṇa is the center. That is ānanda. And if you make Kṛṣṇa minus, then there is no ānanda. You may be Brahman realized, you may be seeing the Paramātmā, but there is no ānanda.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750918SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.15

-

Vṛndāvana, September 18, 1975



Prabhupāda:



patitaḥ skhalito bhagnaḥ

sandaṣṭas tapta āhataḥ

harir ity avaśenāha

pumān nārhati yātanāḥ

[SB 6.2.15]



*These are the, some of the practical examples. There are persons who criticize chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Nāmnād artha*-vāda. Because the glories of the holy name are described here, that one can become free from the sinful reaction of life simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord, so sometimes those who are not in the line, they think, "It is too much. It is too much." So the next verse, the... It is advised... Not it is too much. You can test it. Test it. What is that test? Patita. When you fall down from a high place... Suppose from the roof you may fall down, patitaṁ. Skhalita: you may slip and fall down. Bhagnaḥ: by falling down you may break your bones. Then sandaṣṭaḥ: you may be bitten by some animal-cats, dogs, a snake. There are so many, domestic. Then tapta: you may be burned. And āhataḥ: you may be injured from others. Then during this time you can test, practical. What is that test? Harir ity avaśena aha. Try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Pumān. If anyone does so, na arhati yātanāḥ. You'll immediately feel that from the injuries you are not feeling pain. This is practical seen. Even a snake bite... You may be saved. The author says, never says, that you may be saved from death, but the suggestion is that you may not feel much pain. This is practical.



*Because this material world is full of dangers, these symptoms of dangerous position, patitaṁ skhalito bhagnaḥ... Especially in the modern age, in the Western countries, accident, motor accident and die, is very common thing nowadays. Here also it is becoming. On the whole, even there is no motor accident, there are so many accidents. In every step there is danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. This material world means every step there is danger. There is no question of safety. At any moment. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja recommended, kaumāraṁ ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Why in the beginning of childhood one should learn bhāgavata*-dharma? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Somehow or other, we have got this body, human form of body, durlabham, after many, many births. They do not know. The foolish persons, they do not know what is the value of this human form of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyatāḥ. In this way 8,400,000 different forms of life we have to pass through. Then we have got this. Especially a civilized human being. The human race, they are also 400,000..., 400,000 types. Out of them, those who are civilized, they are called Aryans. Aryan means civilized. Aryan means those who are making progress. They are called Aryans.

*So amongst the Aryans there is the division*-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha. The Aryans, they do follow it, these Vedic principles, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. What is the purpose of varṇāśrama? Now, viṣṇu ārādhana. Why Viṣṇu ārādhana? There are so many other demigods. That is also answered by Lord Śiva. When he was asked by Pārvatī, "What is the best form of worship?" he recommended, ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣām: "There are many different types of worship." Sarveṣam. Viṣṇur ārādhanaṁ param. He never said, Lord Śiva, that "My ārādhana is..." Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, but no other demigod has ever said. No. You'll never find. Here Lord Śiva says, viṣṇur ārādhanaṁ param. Then again he stresses, tasmāt parataraṁ devī madīyānāṁ, tadīyānām ārādhanam: "Viṣṇu ārādhanam is the best, but better than this best there is another ārādhanam." What is that? Tadīyānām ārādhananam: "To worship the Vaiṣṇava." Viṣṇu ārādhana is the topmost, but Vaiṣṇava ārādhana is still more. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore says, chādiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā, nistara payeche kebā. The Vaiṣṇava ārādhana is so important.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninās tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Tattva*-darśi. This word tattva is very important. Unless one is tattva-darsi, there is no use to take instruction from him. Useless waste of time. Tattva-darśi means... Kṛṣṇa says in another place, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhi means liberated, means who has no more the bodily concept of life. This is the Vedic meaning of ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Aham: "I, the spiritual spark, I am not this matter. I am a spirit soul." That is brahmāsmi. So long we are in the bodily concept of life, that is called jīva-bhūta-mamivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ-conditioned soul. And when one understands ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is called [SB 4.30.20] brahma-bhūta. There are two words. The conditioned soul is called jīva-bhūta. He is thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am cat," "I am dog," "I am this," "I am that." That is called jīva-bhūta. And in the human form of life, when he studies athāto brahma jijñāsā, when he is inquisitive to understand Brahman, spirit, that is real life. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā.



*In the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam it is said that dharmārtha*-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41]. So mokṣa means tattva-jijñāsā. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsa na yas ceha karmabhiḥ. So that tattva-jijñāsā means to understand Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. The same. Tattva-jijñāsā... Who will inquire about tattva? Those who are siddha. So that siddha stage, brahma-bhūta stage, is not for everyone. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many millions of persons, one may be interested how to become siddha, to understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is called siddha. And yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3]. This is called tattva-jijñāsā. So tattva-jijñāsā is meant for the siddhas, not for the fools and rascals. They cannot. They are inquiring, ke apa haya. (Hindi?) You find in the market, big, big merchants, they have got exchange in Calcutta, Bombay. The inquiry is ke apa haya. So not that inquiry. Ke apa haya, share cut ke apa haya, cao ke apa haya, dal ke apa haya.(?) Not That is not tattva-jijñāsā. Tattva-jijñāsā means "What is Brahman?" That is tattva-jijñāsā, because Vedas indicates that "Try to understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi, 'You are Brahman.' " Tat tvam asi. So 'ham. So this is the Vedic injunction.

*So the Vedic injunction, tattva-jijñāsā, that is the first aphorism in the Vedānta-sūtra. Athāto brahma-jijñāsāḥ: "The human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Therefore Bhāgavata explains, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is the explanation of Brahma-sutra. Therefore you will find at the end of each chapter of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-purāṇe brahma-sutra-bhasye. The Śrīmad Bhāgavatam is the real comment on Brahma-sutra, Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta-sūtra was compiled by Vyāsadeva. He summarized all the Vedic knowledge, summarized all Vedic knowledge into Brahma-sutra, in nutshell. Then he was not satisfied, although he made so many Purāṇas, Mahābhārata, Brahma-sutra, Upaniṣads and... Means these were correct. He wrote into letters in the book. Being compassionate on the people of this age, all fools and rascals*-they have no good memory-therefore he compiled all these Vedas into writing. Before that, there was no writing. People were so sharp in memory, simply by hearing from the guru, they will remember. Simply. The education and the brain and the capacity was so nice. So that is not possible in the age. Everything is diminishing. The strength, bodily strength, is diminishing. The memory is diminishing. The duration of life is diminishing. Man's propensity to be merciful is diminishing. At the present moment, even in the civilized world, so-called civilized, if one man is being killed on the open street, nobody will go and help him because the tendency for showing mercy to others, that is diminishing. And bodily strength is diminishing. Memory is diminishing. Dharma, the principle of religion, that is diminishing. This is calculated. Therefore brahma-jijñāsā.

*When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was questioned by Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī at Benares, follower of Śaṅkara philosophy, that... There was meeting between Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not like to meet the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. He used to live alone. But sometimes these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they were criticizing Him that "This Bengali sannyāsī comes from Bengal, and He does not indulge in reading Brahma*-sutra or Vedānta-sūtra. He dances and chants with some ecstatic people. What kind of sannyāsī He is? A sannyāsī is meant for studying Vedānta-sūtra, Sāṅkhya philosophy." Some of them were very learned scholars. There's no doubt about it. But when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was inquired by Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, "Sir, I learned that in your previous life..." He was a learned scholar. He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. "And You have taken sannyāsa. So instead of reading Sāṅkhya philosophy and Vedānta-sūtra, You are simply chanting and dancing with some fanatics. What is this?" This was the question. Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "Sir, if I reply your question candidly, please do not be sorry." "No, I am not sorry. We are prepared." "Because My guru mahārāja saw Me: I am the greatest fool." Guru more mūrkha dekhi, karila vedanta nāhi tava adhikāra [Cc. Ādi 7.71]. He became a fool. The purpose was that at the the present moment they are simply fools and rascals. What they will understand about Vedānta? Therefore the sastric injunction is harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21].

*So there was very long discussion, and all the sannyāsīs, sixty thousand sannyāsīs, they were convinced about Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, His explanation of the Upaniṣad. So it is not that the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya is simply chanting and dancing. If required, they are prepared to answer all Vedic discussion. They are prepared. We have got so many books, all Vedic discussions. Not that we are simply indul... But this is sufficient. Simply chanting is sufficient. But if one thinks like Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, that "These people simply chant and dance..." Sometimes one sannyāsī accused us like that. Germany or some...? That Bharati? So we answered them that "Come on. We have got at least seventy*-five books, four hundred pages each, to teach you Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Come on." So we are prepared. It is not that. We are the followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was chanting and dancing, but when there was Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, when there was Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, He discussed Vedānta very elaborately, not with fools and rascals. A paṇḍita like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, a sannyāsī like Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī who knew what is Vedānta, what is Vedas-then we are prepared, because we know certainly. Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. If anyone understands Kṛṣṇa, it is to be understood that he has studied all the Vedas. There is no doubt about it. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15].

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*So everything is explained there. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness not with empty hand. We are prepared to talk on Vedānta. We are prepared to talk on Upaniṣad. And the conclusion is kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Ete cāṁśa*-kalāḥ puṁsaṁ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. This is the conclusion. Kṛṣṇa also confirms that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjayaḥ, praṇava [Bg. 7.7]. Sometimes they take praṇavaḥ as the Supreme. Kṛṣṇa says, praṇavaḥ ahaṁ sarva vedeṣu: "This praṇava, oṁkāra, in all the Vedas, that is I am. That is My sound representation." So this holy name of Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that simply by chanting, one can become liberated. This is the blessing of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said, ihā haite sarva siddhi haibe tomāra. All siddhis. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Siddhi means to cleanse the heart. That is siddhi. Because we are now materially obsessed, we are thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this and that," all material-upādhi. And bhakti means when you are freed from the upādhi, then bhakti begins.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Then bhakti begins. Bhakti is not for the person who is not liberated, because as soon as you begin bhakti, devotional service, you immediately come to the liberated platform. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇan samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Bhakti, beginning of bhakti, means immediately he is on the Brahman platform. We are trying to understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but if you take to devotional service you are immediately on the platform of brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate.



*So this is the scientific understanding of brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage, or ahaṁ brahmāsmi, and... Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. So therefore this name is Brahman. The holy name of Lord is Brahman, Brahman's name. Brahman's name means Brahman. Because Brahman is Absolute, He is not different from His name, He is not different from His form, He is not different from His quality. Otherwise how we are worshiping this form of Kṛṣṇa here? This Kṛṣṇa and that Kṛṣṇa... There is no "this" and "that." Kṛṣṇa is one. But even if we think that this is the statue of Kṛṣṇa, that is our misconception. It is not statue. It (is) Kṛṣṇa. We have to prepare our eyes to see Him. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. When He entered Jagannātha temple, He immediately fainted-"Here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is Kṛṣṇa"-because He had the eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. So we have to prepare our eyes to see. That eye is also explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā: premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38], to develop your love of Kṛṣṇa. Then Kṛṣṇa will be revealed. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234].

*So you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa by argument or by your these staring eyes. No. You have to prepare your eyes, you have to prepare your ear, you have to prepare your nose, you have to prepare your tongue, you have to prepare your hand, you have to prepare your leg*-all the senses.

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalaṁ

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



These senses, now it is upādhi. I am thinking, "I am American; *therefore my hand is American, my leg is American, my eyes are American." No. You have to become free from these "American eyes" or "Indian eyes" or "brahminical eyes" or... No. Pure eyes. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When your eyes are purified from all these designations, when your senses are purified, then nirmalaṁ... Nirmalam means purified. That senses... Purification does not mean that you are senseless. No. Just like cataract operation of the eyes does not mean pluck out the eyes. No. The eyes will remain; the cataracts will be taken away. Then you will see. So when your material conception of life is finished, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is called ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And to simply realize ahaṁ brahmāsmi will not stay. You have to go further.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*If you make further advance, then your Brahman activities will begin, and that is called bhakti, parā*-bhakti.



Thank you very much. (end)



750919SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.16

-

Vṛndāvana, September 19, 1975



Prabhupāda:



gurūṇāṁ ca laghūnāṁ ca

gurūṇi ca laghūni ca

prāyaścittāni pāpānāṁ

jñātvoktāni maharṣibhiḥ

[SB 6.2.16]



So sinful activities, it is punishable. You cannot violate the laws of nature. Prakṛti is very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Just like the government has police department, military department, law courts. Why? Because not all the citizens were good citizens. There are many outlaws. So more or less, whoever is in this material world, they are outlaws. Outlaw means they do not abide by the laws of nature, and therefore they are punishable.



The first punishment is that we have got this material body. This is the first punishment.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



The first criminal action is that when we forget Kṛṣṇa and our relationship with Him Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa is that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer; *we are eternal servant. This is our relationship. Just like a big man, rich man: he is the enjoyer and he has got many servants. That we practically see. The capitalist, he starts some business, big factory. Ten thousand men are working, but the capitalist is not working. It is our practical experience. He is aloof from the factory. In a nice place, in a nice bungalow, garden house, he is enjoying. Similarly, God, Kṛṣṇa, He is the enjoyer. You will find, therefore, Kṛṣṇa here in this temple, He is enjoying. He is standing with His elder brother, enjoying in the forest, sporting with His cowherd boy friends, His cows, calves*-enjoying in the forest. The description is there in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. And those who are playing with Him, those who are associates of Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, they are also not ordinary persons.



*itthaṁ brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nara*-dārakeṇa

*sārddhaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



*Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "These boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, they are not ordinary boys." Kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ: "After many, many births' accumulation of pious activities they have not got this position, the chance of playing with Kṛṣṇa." Similarly, everyone in Vṛndāvana when Kṛṣṇa was present, all the gopīs, all the cowherds boys...



*So Kṛṣṇa comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. This is the process. Every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. He belongs to the Kṛṣṇa's family. Kṛṣṇa's family. This is our original position. Vṛndāvana means whole Kṛṣṇa's family. Even the birds, beast, trees, plants, water*-all belong to the Kṛṣṇa's family. Advaya-jñāna. Therefore anything in Vṛndāvana is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Even the dust of Vṛndāvana is as good as Kṛṣṇa. This is the philosophy, Absolute Truth. So Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy, He comes. At a certain interval during one day of Brahma, He comes. He exhibits His līlā, that "Anyone who desires to go back to home, back to Godhead, they can enjoy with Me like this." This is Kṛṣṇa's mission. "Come on. Why you are playing here and suffering this māyā's play? Come to the real play." This is Kṛṣṇa's mission. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Kṛṣṇa comes: "Just try to understand Me, why I come."

*The certain section, they say that "Why God will come? God has no business to come here." So these rascals, they do not know. Why God will not come? Is He your father's servant, that you think God cannot come, therefore God cannot come? You can think in your way, but God is fully independent. Whenever He likes, He can come. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. Just to show the example. Why God should be restrained not to come? He is not God. If God is restrained by us, by our speculation, by our imagination, that is not God. That is dog. A dog can be restrained: "Don't come here." Why God can be restrained? So there is no reason. He says freely that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. He wants. We are part and parcel of God, just like sons are part and parcel of father. If the father is rich man, all*-powerful, he does not like to see that his sons are loitering in the street without any food, without any shelter. He doesn't like. Father entreats, "My dear son, why you are rotting in this way? Come home. You'll be comfortable. You'll be happy." But these rascal sons will not go. They are thinking, "We shall make plan here and live peacefully." That is going on. And God is coming, Kṛṣṇa is coming, canvassing, that "Come back to home, back to Godhead," and we are not interested. We are making plan here. This is our misfortune. But this plan will be frustrated. That is the nature's law. Daivi hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Whatever plan you make, it will be frustrated. It will never be successful. Therefore śāstra says, bahir-artha-maninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Where is the destination of life, they do not know it. Na te viduḥ. These rascals, those who have come to this material world, they do not know where is the goal of life because they are rascals, mūḍha, narādhama. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing that "Give up all this nonsense business." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Nobody will hear. He will manufacture his own way. This is the disease. Why? Because under the spell of māyā.

So to forget Kṛṣṇa and to become subjected to the condition of material nature, that is called material life. Material life means to give up the idea of going back to home, back to Godhead, but making plan here to be happy. This is called māyā, or material life. So here it is said that,

gurūṇāṁ ca laghūnāṁ ca

gurūṇi ca laghūni ca

prāyaścittāni pāpānāṁ

jñātvoktāni maharṣibhiḥ



*Maharṣibhi. Great learned scholars, realized soul, liberated soul, they have given us Vedic literature. There are different types of explanation, just like main is the Manu*-saṁhitā. In the Manu-saṁhitā it is said that if a man kills, then he should be also killed. No excuse. From Manu-saṁhitā the hanging or killing of a murderer, that is enjoined. That is there. Maharṣibhiḥ. A killer of other animals or other living entities, he must be killed. This is Manu-saṁhitā. This is showing the mercy. When a king orders a murderer to be hanged, that is king's mercy. It is said in the Manu-saṁhitā. He is not to be excused. Life for life. Now imagine how many lives we are killing every day. We have now become very civilized. We are maintaining slaughterhouses, thousands and thousands, up-to-date machine, how to kill the animals. This is our advancement of civilization, and they are all sinful activities, pāpāni. And not only killing. There are so many institution how to cheat, how to take your money by tricks, how to kidnap others' wife, how..., so many things, simply sinful activities. Simply. Of course, there are different grades of sinful activities. Therefore it is said, gurūṇāṁ ca laghūnāṁ ca. Just like disease. You are suffering from some headache, and that is also disease. And you are suffering from cancer, and that is also disease. But when you are suffering from headache the doctors may give you a tablet, Anacin, and the headache is cured. And this is laghū, very insignificant disease. But if you are suffering from cancer, that tablet will not help you. Therefore gurūṇāṁ ca laghūnāṁ ca. As there are different types of diseases-some of them are very, very acute and severe, and some of them are very insignificant-similarly, the grades of sinful activities are there. Some of them are not very serious and some of them are very, very serious. So as the physician prescribes costly medicine for serious disease, similarly, maharṣibhiḥ, big, big saintly persons, liberated persons, they have prescribed prāyaścitta, atonement, for severe types of sinful activities and insignificant types of sinful activities.



But sinful activities must be there. We are put into certain condition; *therefore it is called conditional life. Suppose you are very pious man. You are not killing any man or any cow*-we are very careful-but still you have to kill. What is that? Because we are walking on the street. You have seen. You are killing so many ants. The position is like that. Even if you do not wish to kill, even if you are very pious man, still you have to kill, unconsciously or consciously. The world situation is like that. Anyone who has come here, he must commit sinful activities. As soon as you get this material body, then you must have to commit sinful activities, even if you are very careful. It is not possible. Therefore śāstra says, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām: [SB 10.14.58] "Every step there is vipadā." You cannot be excused. Because you are killing one ant unconsciously while walking, your name is noted. Your ticket is immediately there: "Oh, you have killed so many ants." The law is so nice. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]. Automatically it is recorded, automatically, and you have to suffer.

*So then what to do? If the situation is like that, how to save? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yajñārthe karmaṇānyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. If you dedicate your life for yajña... Yajña means for Viṣṇu. Yajñārthe karma means Yajña-puruṣa is Viṣṇu. If you work for Viṣṇu, then you are safe. Otherwise you are becoming complicated. Yajñārthe. Kṛṣṇa says yajñārthe karma anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. If you are going to office to earn your bread, very hurriedly to attend the office, and you are killing so many ants, you are becoming entangled. You think, "I am going to office to do my duty very hurriedly," but you are becoming implicated. But if you go out for receiving some help for worshiping Viṣṇu, then you are free. Then you are free. Exactly like that: soldier who is fighting in the battlefield and killing so many men and he is given gold medal, "Oh, you have killed so many. So many lives you have killed of the opposite party, enemy. You take this Victoria Cross." He becomes recognized by the government. The same man, when he comes home, if he kills somebody for his sense gratification, he will be hanged. The same man. The same soldier, when he is fighting for king's service, government service, government is supplying him food, everything-"So fight very chivalrously"*-and offering him gold medal. And the same men, when he comes home, for his sense gratification if he kills a man, he will be hanged. He may say in the court, "Sir, I have killed so many men in the battlefield and I was never hanged. I was given gold medal. And now I have killed only one man and I am going to be killed? Why? What is this?" "Yes." For your sense gratification, as soon as you do anything, that is sinful, whatever you do. It may be so-called pious activities in your calculation, but in this material world there is no such thing as pious activities or impious. Everything impious.

*The Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kaj has said, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samana. In this material world... The material world means world of duality. And the absolute world means the world of one. Eka brahma dvitīya nāsti. That is absolute, spiritual world. There is one only, spirit. There is nothing, although there are varieties of spiritual manifestation. So, so long you are in this material world of duality, then you have to commit sinful activities. Therefore the whole Vedic literature is meant for taking you to the spiritual world. Tamasi mā jyotir gamā: "Don't remain in this material world of darkness. Come to the spiritual world." Tamasi mā jyotir gamā. This is instruction. And jyotir means that spiritual world. First appreciation of the jyotirmān, Brahman, Brahmaloka, Brahman effulgence, that is the first entrance. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti [SB 1.2.11]. Just like you see the sunshine: it is impersonal, only light. But if you have got power, strength, if you can go to the sun planet, that is another. This is also... Sun planet is also shining. The heat and light is there. And in the sunshine there is heat and light and shining. But the temperature in the sun globe is different from this temperature. And if you have got strength, then you can see who is reigning over that sun planet. In the Vedic literature you will find his name. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. The name of the predominating deity, or the president of the sun globe, is Vivasvān. His name is also there. His address is also there. The God is there. God's name is there. God's address is there. Now if you have got power to go there, you can go. Just like Indira Gandhi or the President's name is there, address is there, but if you are fit to see him or her, that depends on you. Not that because you cannot see the President or Indira Gandhi, she is nirākāra. This is foolishness. This is foolishness. Why God should be nirākāra?

Śāstra says that brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate.

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayaṁ

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*The Absolute Truth, advaya jñāna. There is no duality. He is absolute in three features: Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. So Brahman realization means sac*-cid-ānanda, simply realization of the sat proportion, eternity. That is Brahman realization. And Paramātmā realization means eternity and knowledge. And Bhagavān realization means eternity, knowledge, and ānanda. Ānandamāyo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). There are three things, if you can reach. But foolish persons, although they are advanced in spiritual knowledge, they do not get the information that behind this Brahman effulgence, behind this Paramātmā realization there is the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand it on account of poor fund of knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



Why an impersonalist, although very advanced in knowledge, in Vedic knowledge, still he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa? He inquires, "What is God?" Just see. God is canvassing, "Here I am," and he is inquiring, "What is God?" So this is our misfortune. Why they cannot realize? Duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means acting sinfully. Specifically denying the existence of God. That is the greatest offense. Suppose you are a gentleman, and if I say, "You are blind. You are lame. You are handless. You are armless. You have no head. You are...," will you be sat..., happy? Will anybody be happy? Similarly, those persons who are describing the Absolute Personality of Godhead, "He has no eyes..." In other words, he is blind. "He has no hand" mean armless. "He has no leg," then he is lame man. "He has no tongue." In this way it is the definition by negation, and after all, make it zero. If you cut my hand, leg, my head, my eyes, ears, then what I remain?



*So the atheist class men, they say openly they don't believe in God. That is honest. And those who have taken the shelter of Vedas and talking of God as armless, legless, and headless, and earless, they are saying the same thing. Vedāśraya nāstika-vāda bauddha ke adhika. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika: "Persons who do not agree with the Vedic authority..." He called them nāstika. As the Mussulman, they say one who does not believe in the Koran, he is kafir, and Christian, one who do not believe in the Bible, they are called heathens, similarly, according to our Vedic civilization, anyone who does not accept the authority of Vedas, he is called atheist. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Buddha philosophy, they do not accept the authority of Vedas, although Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. But for the time being, he did not accept the authority of Veda. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Lord Buddha was preaching ahiṁsā, so according to Vedic rituals there is prescription sometimes*-not always-killing of animals. So when Lord Buddha was preaching ahiṁsā, "No more animal killing," the so-called Vedantists and Vedic followers, they said, "Why you are preaching in that way? We have got in the Vedas many animal sacrifice is prescribed there, paśu-bali." So Lord Buddha, what he will reply to these foolish persons what was his mission? He said, "I don't care for your Vedas." Therefore nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam: "Although it is Vedic injunction, my Lord, you have decried." Means there is no way. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam: "You are so kind, you wanted to stop this poor animal killing: 'Never mind. For the time being stop Vedic authority.' "

*So these things can be understood by the devotees. Although he decried Vedic authority, still, he is worshiped. Keśava dhṛta*-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. This is the understanding of the devotees. They know everything perfectly well, what is what. They know Śaṅkarācārya, what he is. Śaṅkarācārya is the incarnation of Lord Śaṅkara, Lord Śiva. Lord Śiva. Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ. He is the topmost Vaiṣṇava. So the devotees know that Śaṅkarācārya was at heart a Vaiṣṇava, but he had to preach like avaiṣṇava because he had to drive away Buddhism from India. That was the mission. So therefore he made something, compromise, with the Buddhist philosophies. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said He wanted to accept Vedas against Buddhism, who did not accept the Vedas, but He preached this atheism under the shadow of Vedas. He said therefore that veda nā māniyā buddha haila nāstika, vedāśraye vāda nāstika ke adhika. So these are the discussion. One has to learn very cautiously how, what is the purpose of, why Lord Buddha came, why Lord Śiva and Śaṅkarācārya came, why other ācāryas came, why Caitanya Mahāprabhu came. It requires thorough study under able guidance. Then one can understand.

On the whole, the conclusion is that anyone who is in this material world, he is a sinful man. Anyone. Otherwise he would not have gotten this material body. Just like anyone who is in the prison house, you can conclude that he is a sinful, criminal man. You do not require to study one after another. Because he is in the prison house you can conclude that "Here is a criminal." Similarly, anyone who is in the material world, he is a criminal. But not the superintendent of jail. You cannot conclude, "Because everyone is in the jail, criminal, therefore the superintendent of jail, he is also criminal." Then you are mistaken. Those who are conducting these sinful men to take them back to home, back to Godhead, he is not criminal. His business is how to release this rascal from this prison house and take him back to home, back to Godhead.

*So mahad*-vicalanaṁ nṛṇāṁ gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasāṁ. Gṛhiṇāṁ. Gṛhi means anyone who is living within this body or anyone who is living within this material world. It is a compact thing. So they are very poor-hearted. They do not know what is the value of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. So instead of enlightening them, if mahāt or mahātmā, they keep them in the darkness, that is a great disservice. They must be enlightened. Their business is to preach that "Don't keep yourself within this material world. Come to the spiritual world." This is the business of mahātmā. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛṇāṁ gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. They are very poor knowledge, mūḍha. They have been described as mūḍha, duṣkṛtina. All these men are engaged in sinful activities on account of their ignorance. If you say, "No, how you can say they are in ignorance? There are so many universities. They are passing M.A.C., D.A.C., doctor, Ph.D., and still they are ignorant?" "Yes." "How?" Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "The so-called knowledge is taken away by māyā." Otherwise why they are sticking to this material world? If you become enlightened, then you must know that this material world is not for our habitation. We must go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching that "This is not your home. Don't try to be happy here." Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir, the external energy. They are thinking that "Materially, if we make some arrangement..." Some of them are trying to be happy by scientific improvement or some of them are trying to go to the heavenly planet, and some of them are trying to become this, that, but they do not know that real happiness is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that. So this is very important movement, that we are giving them hint and education how to go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



750920SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.17

-

Vṛndāvana, September 20, 1975



Prabhupāda:



tais tāny aghāni pūyante

*tapo*-dāna-vratādibhiḥ

*nādharmajaṁ tad*-dhṛdayaṁ

*tad apīśāṅghri*-sevayā

[SB 6.2.17]



So yesterday we have explained that we are put into such position in this material world (pause) that we have to commit sinful activities. This is our position. Even if I do not want to do it. Just like a man accustomed to steal, he is dictated from within, "Don't steal." Otherwise why he goes at night to steal? He knows that "This is not good." He does not steal openly. Secretly, without any knowledge. Because he knows that "What I am going to do is not good." That's a fact. Therefore sometimes it is called black. So he is forced to do it.



*It was questioned by Arjuna to Kṛṣṇa that "How one man is forced to commit sinful activities." So Kṛṣṇa replied, kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajoguṇa*-samudbhavam. There are three modes of material nature: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So those who are in tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, they are forced to commit sinful activities, forced. There is no alternative. Therefore we have to come. Just like we go to school, college for education. What is the purpose? That "We are ignorant. We are illiterate, uneducated. Therefore I must go to school to learn, to become enlightened." Similarly, from the lower animal status we are coming by evolution, and in the human form of life, especially in the civilized human form of life, the enlightenment is that one should come from this tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa. That is required. Therefore the brahminical culture is so much adored in India to make one from the lower status of life to the higher status of life. And that is very easily done simply by devotional service.

*That is stated here. Na adharmajaṁ dhṛdayam. Our heart is filled up with all dirty things, adharma. And it is very difficult to purify the heart, but it is possible, tad api. Even the hard-hearted, stone-hearted, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, can be melted, can be reformed. How? Īśāṅghri-sevayā. Īśa. Īśa means the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Āṅghri means His lotus feet. Sevayā. This is possible. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, Kṛṣṇa says the same thing. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Pāpa-yoni. Puṇya-yoni means according to the infection of the heart with different qualities of these material modes of nature. That is called pāpa-yoni. One whose heart is too much engrossed with tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, they are lower grade, pāpa-yoni. And gradually one who is free from the tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa... Even sattva-guṇa. Of course, sattva-guṇa is taken*-the platform of goodness. That is the only hope in this material world, that one has to come by endeavor to the sattva-guṇa platform. Then the heart disease, kāma... hṛd-roga-kāma(?). It is a heart disease. Kāma means lusty desires simply to enjoy senses. This is called kāma. Hṛd-roga-kāma āpṛṇoti.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to cure the heart disease full with lusty desires. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the perfection comes when anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Brs. 1.1.11]*-no more any material desire. That is possible. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you get something, that something, "I don't want anything more." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42], Dhruva Mahārāja said. He went to the forest to undergo severe austerities so that he can see Nārāyaṇa and beg some benefit, to get a greater kingdom than his father. He was insulted by his stepmother, so the boy, son of a kṣatriya, he determined that "I shall have a better kingdom than my father." So he got it. By Kṛṣṇa's grace he got it, that Dhruvaloka, the polestar. It is very big star. So he went for this purpose. Arthārthī. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino arjuna. Arthārthī. Ārto arthārthī. So he was in search after money, Dhruva Mahārāja, and therefore at five years old he went to the forest. His mother advised that "Kṛṣṇa can help you only." Others cannot help. So he was simple boy. He decided, "Where is Kṛṣṇa?" "Now, my dear child, I know that He is found in the forest." So he went to the forest, and he very severely Nārada Muni tried to persuade him, "No, no, you are simply a small child. Why you are so much infected with the insult given by your stepmother?" So he said, "No, I don't want your advice. If you can give me God, just talk of that. You don't talk of compromise. I am not going." This is determination. This is determination. So he, actually, within six months he saw Nārāyaṇa. But when he saw Nārāyaṇa, then his all material desires finished. He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I came to ask You for some benefit, material benefit. Now, by seeing You I am so satisfied that I have no more any desire to ask for." This is the ultimate stage, no more desire. We may begin with desire, but perfection is that, when there is no more desire. That is the beginning of bhakti.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ

bhaktir uttama

[Brs. 1.1.11]



That is bhakti, no more desire.



*So here, na adharmajaṁ tad*-dhṛdayam. Adharmajam. So long our heart is compact with material desires, we have to take birth after birth to fulfill that desire. It is automatic. So how to become desireless? Not desireless but no material desires. There is desire to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is natural. To become a devotee, to desire like that, that is wanted. We cannot stop our desires. But desires have to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So this is the process of bhakti. Therefore even one is infected with these lusty desires, kāma-lobhadayas ca ye, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa... Rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. Kāma-lobha. So, so long we are influenced by the two material modes of nature, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, then we will be pushed for fulfilling our lusty desires and greediness. And that will help us to become implicated in sinful activities. The people are becoming implicated in sinful activities only for this kāma-lobha. He is never satisfied, and his greediness increases and we create sinful life.

*So there is prescription in the śāstra that "If you are sinful, you do this prāyaścitta, atonement." Tapo*-dāna-vratādibhiḥ. Tapo, tapasya, dāna, and observing some vratās, vows, ritualistic ceremonies, recommended. But here the Viṣṇudutas says that actually, by these processes, tapasya, dāna... Na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. Kṛṣṇa also says that... What is that verse? I just forget. That tapasya, dāna, vrata... Just like one has taken sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means he has given up all these obligatory ceremonies. But Kṛṣṇa says that "Even if you have taken sannyāsa, you cannot give up these processes." What is that? "Tapasya, dāna, and vrata." It is pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you have become manīṣi, very exalted great sage, still, you should continue this tapasya. And tapasya means voluntarily accepting some miserable condition. That is called tapasya. Just like they used to perform austerity in winter season, to go deep into the water. When one tries to avoid water, tapasya means one goes You have seen many persons, they are standing within the water and chanting Gāyatrī mantra. This is tapasya. And in summer season they ignite fire all around and sit down.

*So these things are not possible at the present moment in the Kali*-yuga. But little tapasya required. Without tapasya you cannot be purified. That little tapasya we have prescribed, that "Rise early in the morning at half past three," but they are so downtrodden, they cannot do it. "Let me sleep five minutes more. I'll enjoy." You see? Such downtrodden. They were performing austerities, standing in the water in winter season, and we are recommending, "Please rise early in the morning at half past three. Be prepared for maṅgala-ārati," it is very difficult job. Just see how much we are fallen. We cannot sacrifice, say, fifteen minutes or half an hour's sleep. We consider, "Sleeping is very good enjoyment." I have seen in the Western countries, they want to sleep so much. That is enjoyment. Up to twelve o'clock in daytime. There are many Indians also, they sleep up to twelve o'clock, and then they prepare for going to the office, big man. He goes to the office at four o'clock when the office is going to be closed. That is their enjoyment. "I have slept so much. That is my life's success. I have eaten so much. That is my enjoyment. I have enjoyed sex life so much. That is enjoyment." He does not know... The rascal does not know that he is becoming implicated for the next birth. If you are too much sleeping, then you become owl. You know? The whole day they can sleep, the owl. If you want to be naked, all right, you become a tree. Stand five thousand years naked. If you want sex, all right, become a hog or a monkey. Nature is prepared to give you facilities.

*So purification means to stop this low-grade life. And low-grade life is there. Otherwise wherefrom they are coming? These cats and dogs and other lower animals, wherefrom they are coming? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. We are creating the facility for the next body, karmana. Therefore it has to be purified. That is called tapaḥ. Tapo divyaṁ-putrakā yena śuddhyet [SB 5.5.1]. This is the... "My dear boys..." Ṛṣabhādeva instructed His children, hundred sons, "My dear boys, just prepare yourself for tapasya." That is the whole Vedic civilization, tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ. Tapasya for realizing God. This is the only business of the human life, not any other business. Any other business will not help you. Otherwise everyone would have been very rich man. Everyone is trying, whole day and night working. Does it mean that everyone is becoming Birla and like that? No. That is not possible. You can get only what is destined to you, not more than that. You cannot get more than that. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [1.5.18]. We are, by the impelling of the material nature-prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]*-we are wandering throughout the whole universe in different types of bodies, in different planets, but we are not getting released. Therefore our only business is to get released from this repetition of birth and death. Śāstra... Tapo... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido. You have become the inhabitants of the higher planets, and you have become an ant, a small insect. This is going on. But you haven't got that release. Now you have got sense; *you are human being. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Now you engage yourself in that tapasya. Yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-kriya na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. Yajña, dāna and tapasya. Kṛṣṇa says, "These things are not to be given up." That is human civilization. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriya na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat: "It must be done." So if we do not do that, then you are not human being. We are not... We are losing the chance of becoming purified, and again implicated in the cycle of birth and death.

*So these things can be very easily done, as it is said here, tad api īśa āṅghri*-sevayā, simply by dedicating yourself at the lotus feet of Īśa, the supreme controller. Īśa means controller. Jagadīśa. God's another name is Jagadīśa. He is the controller of the whole universe. So īśāṅghri-sevayā. That is the only way. So that seva begins from tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. You can begin īśa-seva by the tongue, service. Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is also by tongue, and eating prasādam. Very easy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us this easy program. So don't deviate from this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam. Make life simplified and be happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



710213SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.2.24-25

-

Gorakhpur, February 13, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...humbler than the grass and tolerant more than the tree. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā mānadena. We have to give all respect to everyone. Even one has no respect, he should be also offered respect. In this attitude one can make advancement by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is the instruction of Lord Caitanya. (aside:) I was expecting you earlier because I speak in English for them. (speaks in Hindi with Indian man) So one who cannot understand English, they can hear that. (Hindi) Every one is requesting to have a temple here. Some police officers, they are very much appreciating. (Hindi) So Śrīdhāra Swami is very nicely explaining the omnipotency of chanting the holy name. So he says, tasmād idam upapannam iti tatrāha etāvad iti. If one takes shelter of the transcendental holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he hasn't got to go through the dharma śāstras or abiding by the rules and regulation of different kinds of religious scripture. Etāvat. Etāvad iti. Simply by surrendering to the holy name. So this is applicable in all ages, but especially in this age because nobody can perform the ritualistic ceremonies of any religious principle. The people are so fallen that they cannot. So this hari*-nāmānukīrtanam, it is not that it is manufactured for this age. No. This is potent in all other ages also, but especially it is potent because people in this age, they are unable to execute any religious principles very nicely. Bhagavato guṇānāṁ karmāṇāṁ nāmnāṁ ca samyak kīrtanaṁ iti yat etāvatā puṁsām agha-nirṇayāya pāpa-kṣaya-mātrāya alam upayogo nāsti alam-śabdena atra varaṇe. So Śrīdhāra Swami especially stresses on the point, alam, means "It is forbidden. There is no necessity. Simply..." That is the version of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said, ihā haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomāra. He also stresses that "Simply by chanting, you will get all perfection." Yata amara-śṛṅgāḥ, alaṁ bhūṣaṇa-paryāpi śakti-varaṇa-vaśakam ity upayoga-bhavam eva ajāmilo mahā-pāpa-kṛd api nārāyaṇeti vikṛśya na tu samyak kīrtayitaḥ. You can hear now.



Yamunā: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: In Ajāmila. There was not pure saṅkīrtana. Just like we are advised when chanting the mantra, mahā*-mantra, to avoid ten kinds of offenses. So Ajāmila had no such program. He never meant that he was chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa. This point is being stressed by Śrīdhāra Swami. He simply tried to call his son, whose name was Nārāyaṇa. That was not practically kīrtana, but this very vibration, transcendent vibration, has got so potency that without following the rules and regulations of chanting the holy name, he became immediately released from all sinful reaction. That point is stressed here. Abhavan aśucir api niyamāna asustha-cittaḥ (?). Not only he never meant for chanting the holy name, he was not only sinful, but he was practically in coma because he was dying. His all functions of the physical body was stopped, and he could not chant even properly. Still, he became released from all sinful reaction. At the time of death... Why death? Even in our sleeping condition we are out of our own control completely. So Ajāmila was diseased and was almost on the verge of death, and he was calling his son only. Practically he had no program, but still, he became released, and what to speak of persons who are regularly chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra under principles and without any offense? Avṛtti-śraddhādi-viṣayas tu pāpa-vāsanā-kṣayārtham harer guṇānuvādaḥ khalu sattva-bhāvanaḥ (?). So some way or other, if one is engaged in glorifying the activities...(Hindi) Harer guṇānuvādaṁ khalu sattva-bhāvanaḥ. So even with offense... Because in the beginning everyone chants with offenses... But harer guṇānuvāda, the glorification of the Lord is so powerful that simply by chanting constantly... Therefore we stress that so many rounds must be done. So many rounds must be done. That will protect him from contamination of this material world. Sattva-bhāvanaḥ. Sattva-bhāvanaḥ means his pure consciousness will gradually develop. Pure consciousness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yadu-priya āvṛtaṁ tarhi dāruṣa, dāruṣābdi-smaraṇam iti tatrāha prāya... (etc., to:) ...tvayi noktam (reads long commentary in Sanskrit).



*Śrīdhāra Swami is explaining the next verse. Prāyeṇa veda tad idaṁ na mahājano 'yaṁ divya-vimohita-matir bata māyayālam trayyaṁ jaḍi-kṛta-matir madhu-puṣpitāyāṁ vaitānike mahati karmāṇi yujyamānāḥ (?). People, if they are advised, as it, as he is actually advised... The question is why there are so many ritualistic ceremonial scriptures. Why? So the conclusion is that people are very much attached to any gorgeous method. If you perform here in this temple a great sacrifice with hundreds of brāhmaṇas and chanting Veda mantras, people will be very much attracted immediately. They'll think, "Oh, something very gorgeous is going on." You see? Why they are so? Vimohita-matir bata māyayālam. Because they are captivated by māyā, they cannot understand what is the potency of the holy name. They cannot understand. Therefore sometimes something, very gorgeous ceremony, is advised just to attract them. Trayyaṁ jaḍi-kṛta-matir madhu-puṣpitāyām. Trayyam. Trayyam means Vedas. Veda is called trayi because there are three kinds of different processes: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, and upāsana-kāṇḍa. So jaḍi-kṛta. Just like in India there is a section called Ārya-samājīs. They are very much attached to performance of these sacrifices. They say that "We do not want anything. We shall simply chant the Vedic mantra." Of course, they cannot do it properly. That is also gone. Simply as a formality, they ignite some fire and hither and thither, some mantra-finished. (laughter) Especially in this age, these sacrifices are not possible. Our... There is a sannyāsī leader, many sannyāsī leaders, they attract people by this performance of yajña, although in this age yajña is not possible because there is no yajñic brāhmaṇa. The mantra... Perhaps you have seen in the Kumbha-melā some government officers were... They are also born in a brāhmaṇa family, and they are performing yajña. Actually the brāhmaṇas had so much power in those days that simply by mantra, they would ignite fire. The fire was not ignited by matches*-by mantra. And the animal... Just like in medical science, in physiology sometimes experiment is made by plying the knife on some animal, similarly, how the yajña was being performed, that was tested by animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was not meant for killing one animal and eating. No. That the animal, an old animal, should be put into the yajña fire and he'll come out a young, with a young body, that was the test how Vedic mantras were being chanted powerfully. That was the... Not that animal was to be killed there. No. Superficially it appears that animal is put and he is killed, but when the animal comes out of the yajña, that is the test of yajñic brāhmaṇa chanting the Vedic hymns correctly. That was the system. And because there is no such powerful yajñic brāhmaṇa at the present moment, therefore all kinds of yajñas are forbidden at the present moment. Kalau tad hari-kīrtanāt. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ [SB 12.3.52]. This is the injunction of the śāstra, that in the Satya-yuga, meditation on Viṣṇu... Now they have manufactured meditation in so many ways, but actually meditation means dhyāyato viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-mūrti, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, meditation, focusing the mind on the form of four-handed Viṣṇu, that is yoga.

*yaṁ brahmā*-varuṇendra-rudra(-marutaḥ) stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair

*vedaiḥ sāṅga*-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ

*dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ...

[SB 12.13.1]



Yogina dhyānāvasthita yaṁ paśyanti. Yam. Whom? The Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*So kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. Perfection of life was attained in the Satya*-yuga... Because in the Satya-yuga there is no disturbance. Every man is perfectly religious and peaceful, and therefore they could concentrate their mind focusing their mind on Viṣṇu. So this dhyāna, meditation, was possible in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato..., tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. Then, next stage, next yuga is performance of sacrifices. People, the brāhmaṇas, were so powerful that they could give the desired result by performing sacrifices, and there were means of securing the ingredients. Just like tons of ghee is wanted. Where is ghee? It is all dalda. Where you can perform sacrifice? (laughter) Ghee is finished. You cannot secure even the ingredients. There is no qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore yajña is not possible in this age. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyām..., dvāpare paricaryāyām [SB 12.3.52]. And gorgeous temple worship according to the principle was possible perfectly in the Dvāpara-yuga. Our, this temple worship, Deity worship, we are following the principles of Deity worship because our ācāryas established temple, but main principle is chanting. Therefore, whatever we are doing, we offering prasādam to the Lord, we are having maṅgalārati, the main principle is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This temple worship, it can be avoided, but we cannot avoid chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. As such, we have introduced in several centers that "Begin with Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, keeping the picture of Guru-Gaurāṅga." If it is not possible to worship the Deity according to the rules and regulation, there is no need of establishing temple. But if there are devotees who can actually keep the temple worship method in right order, then... Otherwise, simple, by chanting, everything is complete. But when there is temple worship, there is automatic purification because we have to rise early in the morning, we have to take bath. This kind of purification help..., is helped by temple worship. But when there is grossest type of people who cannot take to this, simply chanting will do. Hari nāmānukīrtanam. Kalau tad, kali, kalau. Kalau, means this age, that cleanliness is very difficult to maintain. Therefore kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. This is recommended.

*So trayyāṁ jaḍi*-kṛta-matiḥ. By the injunction of the Vedas, people are captivated. "Oh, if I perform this yajña, then next life I'll be elevated to the heavenly planet, Svarga." Svargaloka mem. So madhu-puṣpitāyām. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Veda-vada-ratāḥ pārtha nānyad astīti vādinaḥ. Those who are simply after the formulas of the Veda, they cannot understand. The same example. Even at the present moment, because here is temple, people are attracted. If you simply chant, very few people will come. Very few people will come. Therefore both things are recommended. Trayyāṁ jaḍi-kṛta-matiḥ. Their mind is so materialistic that they cannot give proper respect or importance to the chanting of the holy name. Trayyāṁ jaḍi-krta-matir madhu-puṣpitāyāṁ vaitāni ke mahati karmāṇi yujyamānāḥ (?). They are... Generally, they are attracted for karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra. That is explained here. Puspitāyāṁ puṣpatanair artha-vādi-mano harāyāṁ trayyāṁ jaḍi-kṛta abhiniviṣṭa matir yasya ata eva mahaty eva karmāṇi agni-stomādau śraddhāya yujyamāno narake pravartate. If you do not arrange for this gorgeous system, people are not attracted. Therefore we have to do sometimes to attract people, this gorgeousness. Otherwise, chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense is sufficient. Therefore our Guru Mahārāja introduced both the processes. This arca, arca, this is pañcarātriki-vidhi. According to pañcarātrika system, Nārada-pañcarātra, this worship of the Deity is there. And bhāgavata-mārga, the path of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, is simply śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Out of the nine processes recommended, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23], so up to śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇam, that is Bhāgavata-mārga. That is the best. And pāda-sevanaṁ arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam, that is pañcarātriki-vidhi.

*So both the viddhis, both the systems have been introduced. One will help the other. That is the way. Simply Bhāgavata*-mārga... Just like in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning, is simply śravaṇam-paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi; *janmādy asya [SB 1.1.1]*-smaraṇam, simply remembering, memorizing the Supreme Truth. But, of course, the pañcarātrika-vidhi is recommended in the Second Canto. That, another pañcarātrika-vidhi, is worshiping the gigantic form of the Lord. These things are there. But both, combined together, it is very much helpful. Bhāgavata-mārga. Bhāgavata-mārga will help the pañcarātrika-mārga, or process, and the pañcarātrika process will help Bhāgavata process. Both together is helpful. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja introduced... You have seen the, what is called? That signia? One side, pañcarātriki-vidhi, one side bhāgavata-viddhi. That is... I have seen that Gauḍīya Math emblem. Yes. And, so actually, Bhāgavata-mārga is very strong. That is sufficient. But without pañcarātrika-vidhi this polluted body, polluted mind of the devotee, cannot be purified. Therefore both the process should be adopted in preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I think it is now... So any questions?

*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? You said... When you were speaking of bhāgavata*-vidhi, you said that of the nine devotional methods, it includes... I didn't understand which ones it includes, up to what point.



*Prabhupāda: Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23]-this is bhāgavata-mārga. And arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sākhyam ātmā-nivedanam*-that is pañcarātrika, arcanam. So out of the nine-nine, eight, seven, six, five-whatever you do, that is sufficient because absolute. Any item, even one item, you can, if you perform perfectly, that is sufficient. But there are nine alternative items. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he simply chanted, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. He did not establish any Deity, but he got perfection. There were many others. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. At the last stage of his life he simply concentrated in hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śravaṇam. So if śravaṇa is perfect, that is sufficient. Any one of the nine items, if it is done perfectly, that is sufficient. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he did not go to the temple. He sat on the bank of the Ganges, and he was very serious because he knew that "I am going to die within seven days. Let me finish as soon as possible simply hearing of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." He was intelligent. Otherwise... Not that simply he was hearing. He was questioning, as you have seen in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So he was very scholar. It means as the spiritual master, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, was a great scholar in Sanskrit, the king was also a great scholar. Therefore quickly he was reciting, and he was understanding. And as soon as there was some difficulty, he was immediately questioning.



*So both the spiritual master and the disciple, they became perfect simply by śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. This is Bhāgavata*-mārga. Simply by hearing and chanting. The spiritual master chanted, recited Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and that is being imitated. Again this karma-kāṇḍīya... This karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, fruitive activities. The smārta brāhmaṇas, they have manufactured a way of bhāgavata-saptaha. That is a farce only because it is imitation of the process adopted by Parīkṣit Mahārāja and Śukadeva Gosvāmī. But they are... These people, at the present moment, they are neither Parīkṣit Mahārāja nor Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So how it is possible to finish Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam within seven days? That is not possible. It has become a profession, that gorgeousness. They will make a mañcha(?), they will perform some ceremonies and there is some charitable. The result is that the professional reciter will gather some money and some goods and he will maintain his family. That's all. And these people will say that "I have heard for seven days Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." Of course, there is some effect, but this is not recommended anywhere in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that one has to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam within seven days. No. So far we see in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said, nityam bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. People should hear daily, regularly Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why seven days? Regularly. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Nityam, daily, regularly, if one hears and chants Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu, then the dirty things within his heart becomes almost cleansed.

*Now, just try to understand. By daily hearing... Because we are so much contaminated that it is very difficult to get us freed from the contamination, so nityam, regularly, there should be regularly class, hearing of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu.

*naṣṭa*-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu

*nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā

bhagavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭikī

[SB 1.2.18]



*By the process of cleansing our heart, our devotional temperament becomes fixed up on the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is called Uttama-śloka, who is glorified with first*-class, I mean to say, Sanskrit stanzas, uttama-śloka. Just like we pray, we offer prayer to Kṛṣṇa, govindam adi-puruṣam, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. These stanzas are not ordinary. It is very first-class composition, and written by, written or offered by the first living creature, Lord Brahmā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Uttama-śloka. He is prayed with first-class composition. All the ślokas, all the prayers we will find, they are not ordinary Sanskrit composition, as we have seen Bhīṣma's prayer to Kṛṣṇa, Kuntī's prayer to Kṛṣṇa in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. How philosophically they are elevated; how nicely they are composed. And because Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, God is worshiped by such kind of language and elevated poetical and rhetorical, all perfect, therefore His another name is Uttama-śloka.



*So by studying, by hearing, and chanting, reciting regularly of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, nityam... Not that we make a function for seven days, and all the days we do all nonsense. No. Regular habit should be there. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā bhagavaty uttama-śloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭikī. The result will be that our devotional service towards the Supreme Personality of Godhead will be fixed up, firmly fixed up. And that firmly fixed up means you are immediately elevated to the platform of sattva-guṇa, goodness. Sattva-guṇa. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ [SB 1.2.19], as soon as you are fixed up. The devotional service is so nice. As soon as you are fixed up, the other two qualities... To be fixed up in devotional service. Therefore we offer the brahminical position. One who is... When we see that "This man is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and his bad habits, contaminated stage, is much improved, naṣṭa prāyeṣu..." Prāyeṣu means almost he is purified. At that time he is fixed up in devotional service; therefore we offer the brahminical position, sacred thread, because a person who is fixed up in devotional service, he is a brāhmaṇa. He is a brāhmaṇa. He is no more any other because he has cleansed almost the bad habits and the unclean state of mind. Naṣṭa prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. Just see. It is, whatever we are doing, it is all according to the śāstra. Not that he has completely become free, but naṣṭa prāyeṣu. Prāya means almost. Almost he has finished the contamination. Therefore he is fixed up. The first test is whether he is fixed up. As soon as he is fixed up, that means he is fixed up in the brahminical stage.

*My Guru Mahārāja introduced the sacred ceremony because foolish people, they used to... Vaiṣṇave jāti*-buddhiḥ. They used to consider Vaiṣṇava as belonging to some jāta, some particular caste. No. Vaiṣṇava is not in the particular caste. As soon as he is fixed up... He may be coming from the pāpa-yoni, from the most abominable family, but as soon as he is fixed up, immediately he is fixed up in the position of a brāhmaṇa because sattva-guṇa... Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. Naṣṭa. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ [SB 1.2.19]. He has no more inclination to be attracted by the activities of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. They have no more attraction for drinking, no more attraction for meat-eating, therefore no more attraction for smoking, drinking tea. This means that the rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ, kāma-lobha, greediness... We are addicted to all these bad habits due to greediness. There is no other cause. A man will not die if he does not drink. A man will not die if he does not eat meat. He will not die. It is due to our greediness: "I want." And lusty. The illicit sex means lusty. So rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ means lustiness and greediness. So when one is fixed up in devotional service, then tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddha. At that time, when he's fixed up in devotional service, his mind is not disturbed with all this nonsense coming out of the quality of ignorance and passion. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddha. Anāviddham means it is not attacked by this greediness and lustiness. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati: "He is immediately in the sattva-guṇa, goodness. Therefore his mind is satisfied." These are the test. Mind is no more disturbance.

*And as soon as his mind is in tranquillity, evaṁ prasanna*-manaso... [SB 1.2.20], because as soon as one is elevated to the sattva-guṇa platform, he becomes happy in his mental situation. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso. Unless one is situated in tranquillity of his mental position, one cannot understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. One must become satisfied. That satisfaction comes on the platform of sattva-guṇa, not in the platform of ignorance and passion. People are... They come... Mostly people, they are being conducted by passion and ignorance. Therefore they cannot understand. They say, "Such and such person is greater than Kṛṣṇa," because they are captivated by ignorance. They do not know and therefore talk so many nonsense. Unless we are freed from the rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ... They advise, "You can do whatever you like. You can eat whatever you like. Now you are liberated, you can indulge in all kinds of nonsense, but still, you are God. You are Brahman." These things are going on. How they can understand Kṛṣṇa? It is not possible.

Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If they were more intelligent in previous ages, then why didn't they take to the chanting process? Why did they do it, the more difficult method, if they were more intelligent?



*Prabhupāda: They do not care. They say, "What is this chanting? Let me perform a big sacrifice." That is explained. Jaḍi*-kṛta-matiḥ. They are so materialized, they do not understand the importance of chanting. For them, they should be called, "Come on. Here is a big yajña. Bring three hundred pounds of ghee." "Oh, it is something." You see? "It is something." Gorgeousness. They want gorgeousness. And people come to show them gorgeousness to cheat. Because although it is not possible to perform properly yajña, but people are..., want that, so there are many cheaters. They say, "Oh, this yajña, that yajña, that yajña," and people will be attracted. Jaḍi-kṛta-matiḥ, materialized. Their brain cannot accommodate that the Hare Kṛṣṇa, this Kṛṣṇa name, is Kṛṣṇa. It is very difficult for them to understand.



*Guest: Just you have told by chanting holy name one can attain the sattva*-guṇa standard.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Guest: But the many persons such as this, that the so*-called vicāra, namely they introduce when the karma-kāṇḍa(?) and this is particularly difficult to get in this age. So how can we get these vicāra? By chanting holy name within two or three days we don't find that sort of blissful (indistinct) I don't know how, what is this, but I...



Prabhupāda: Chanting... Chanting? What is your question?



Haṁsadūta: Right now we have so many preachers, so many other kinds of preachers in India. Then how can they get rid of them just by chanting?



Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty, but you have got little intelligent associate. Just like if you want to purchase something, once or twice you may be cheated. A third time, you are very intelligent. (chuckles) So even despite being cheated, you should try to find out who is the real preacher. That requires little intelligence.



*Guest: But these so*-called spiritual preachers are looking at you, and immediately you know they will pounce over you. Where is the guarantee...?



Prabhupāda: Yes, there is such possibility. Yes.



Guest: I have discussed yesterday in the market. They were, "You are chanting with this party. What interest you have got?" I explained that "The mass have forgotten Lord Kṛṣṇa, and we are importing the importance of Kṛṣṇa from USA."



Prabhupāda: Yes, that... Yes. That is the fact. That is the fact.



Guest: Then I told that "Guru Mahārāja is Indian, but he has got no place in India. And it is the Western people who are teaching us how to serve Kṛṣṇa. If I learn something from them, what is wrong with it?"



*Prabhupāda: Their brain is full with hodgepodge. You see? Brain is full with hodgepodge. They cannot understand clearly. Just see. The other day the boy was speaking that Aurobindo is greater than Kṛṣṇa. You see? How much misled they are. That is the difficulty in India. The so*-called preachers, yogis, they have filled up the brain with so many hodgepodge things that it is difficult for them. These boys in..., they had no such hodgepodge things. They accepted Kṛṣṇa as He is, and therefore their progress is very quick.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: And some people I have told that they are the friends of Kṛṣṇa...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone, not only they. Anyone. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Anyone who will accept this principle, he will be elevated. That's all. But his brain is filled, "Then why Kṛṣṇa? Why not Aurobindo? He is greater than Kṛṣṇa." You see?



Guest: I don't think he is greater than Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: No.



Guest: He has told only,"Ahaṁ brahmāsmi."



Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ brahmāsmi... Not he says, but his disciple says.



Guest: These things are wrong then. What is wrong with guru?



*Prabhupāda: And why you did not follow it, that "Why? What we are...?" Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. As soon as he was addressed "Kṛṣṇa," He was doing like this: "Oh, what you are nonsense speaking?" That should be done. He was enjoying: "Yes. I am greater than Kṛṣṇa. Oh." Because he is leader of the fools, so he is a great fool. Because leader*-a great man becomes leader-so he is a fool, so he is a great fool. That's all. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His practical... He was Kṛṣṇa Himself. So as soon as He was addressed that "You are Kṛṣṇa..." When He went to Vṛndāvana... The incident is that people saw at night some light in Yamunā dancing. So people thought that "Kṛṣṇa has again come and He is curbing down the Kāliya." So people gathered. Every night they used to gather on the bank of the Yamunā that "Kṛṣṇa has again come." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had one personal assistant, Balabhadra. So he asked permission from Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "Can I go and see Kṛṣṇa? So many people are going." And Caitanya..., "Don't be foolish. Where is Kṛṣṇa?" So next morning some people came to see Him, Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked them, "How you have seen Kṛṣṇa?" Then some intelligent person, "No, no. It was all wrong impression. It was not Kṛṣṇa. Some fisherman was fishing at night and there was light. The light was dancing like that, and these people took that Kṛṣṇa is dancing." So actually Kṛṣṇa was present during that time because Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. But He never said that "I am Kṛṣṇa." He never said. When people addressed Him that "You are Kṛṣṇa..." Sanātana Gosvāmī some..., tactfully addressed Him, "Kṛṣṇa." One who directly addressed Him, "Kṛṣṇa"-immediately He used to close His ears like this: "Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu. Why you are speaking like that? Why you are addressing an ordinary man as Kṛṣṇa?" This is the teaching. And if you say, "Oh, Swamijī Mahārāja, you are Kṛṣṇa," and if I accept that "Oh, yes, I am Kṛṣṇa," then I am greater fool. You are a fool, I am also fool. Is it not? How one can accept that he is Kṛṣṇa, he is greater than Kṛṣṇa? Then he's a greater fool. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: [SB 7.5.31] "One blind man is leading many other blind men." And that is the position. We have got manufactured so many incarnation. Still, there are so many, this mother, that father, this, that, so many. You know prac... Yes. All incarnation. All incarnation, they have congested together and spoiling the brain of the poor people. Every day incarnation. And there are many rascals. He says that "I am Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, and rasa-līlā." You know? Yes. This rascaldom is going on, rasa-līlā. And people are so fool that they send their wife and their daughter for performing rasa-līlā. Things are going on like that.



*You know the Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's life? A similar rasa*-līlā was going on. You know that story? Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was magistrate, and one person in Orissa, he declared himself that "I am Viṣṇu," and in the village he was enticing young women and girls to dance at night. And some of them protested, and they lodged complaint to the government that "This person is doing like that." And the government commissioner, he knew that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Kedāranātha Datta was a very elevated, religious man, and he was magistrate. So the commissioner entrusted the inquiry to Kedāranātha Datta at that time. So Kedāranātha Datta, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, took the matter and went to inquire at that, in the village of Orissa, with some constables in plain dress. So when he went there... He had some yogic power, so immediately he could say, "Oh, your name is Kedarnatha Datta. I know you are very good man, but don't be after me. You will not be happy. And I shall elevate you to become the king of this country. Don't be after me." Now, if anyone... He was Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, a strong devotee. If any other person would have been addressed like that, he would be immediately puzzled: "How this man is talking about me, that I am Kedāranātha Datta, I am magistrate and...?" So he would not do anything. But Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was so strong, he said, "Yes. Thank you very much, that I shall become king. So why don't you go to Jagannātha Purī and stay there? That is a nice pilgrimage, and you can stay there. Many holy men go there. Why you are in this village?" He wanted to drive him away from that village. "Oh, what is that Jagannātha? That is wood. I am Viṣṇu." As soon as he said, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura became fire. "Oh, this rascal is like that." He immediately ordered, "Arrest him. Arrest him." And he showed some fiery spark coming from his jāta. So the constables were hesitating to arrest him, but Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ordered, "Yes, immediately arrest him. Handcuff." So he took him away, arrested. And as soon as he returned home, all the members of his family were in fever, high degree fever, and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura himself was in fever. He made some trick, yogic trick. So his wife began to cry: "Oh, you have arrested one great yogi. He is Viṣṇu, and therefore we are now going to die. We are now..." (laughter) So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: "Yes, you die. All die. Still, what I have done is all right." Then when there is date for appearance in the court, in the court the man was brought, and yogi. You see? And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura asked... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was suffering still in fever. Still, he attended the court and asked the constables that "Cut his jāta."

Haṁsadūta: What is jāta?



*Prabhupāda: Jāta is hair. Hair. Jāta. So no barber was available. (laughter) Because they knew that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, after arresting, he is suffering from fever. Whole family is lying down in fever. So nobody came forward to cut his jāta. So Bhaktivinoda: "All right, bring one scissor. I shall cut." So he personally cut, and personally cut, and that man became very thin immediately after cutting his jata. He had some power in the jāta. And he ordered six months' imprisonment. And in the prison he managed to take some poison and died. So devotees are so strong. They can know what is what. You see? He was not puzzled that "He is Viṣṇu and this..." No. So we should learn from the Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's treatment that this jugglery or this so*-called power is not, no good for advancement in spiritual life. You have to follow the regulative principles as enjoined in the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya. If you do not follow the injunction of the śāstra, then there is no possibility of attaining perfection. Na siddhiṁ sāvapnoti. So our business is to accept a bona fide spiritual master, being guided by him, to follow the rules and regulations. Then advancement is sure. There is no doubt about it. And if we become hodgepodge and mix with hodgepodge and do hodgepodge, there is no progress. Na siddhim. It is clearly said by Kṛṣṇa, "There is no question of perfection," na sukham, "neither happiness," na parāṁ gatim, "and what to speak of being promoted to the spiritual world? There is no..." Therefore vaidhi-bhakti, as it is enunciated in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion, by the Gosvāmīs, we shall try to follow as far as possible. Be sincere and hard-working. Then the success is sure. Not to be bewildered, misled by the so-called avatāra, incarnation. You see? The so-called avatāras, they are simply rascals. Especially in Bengal, every day there is an avatāra. (laughter)



Devotee: The other day I received a postcard that "Some Viṣṇu has appeared in some temple, next to..."



Prabhupāda: Just see. So many. Everyone.



Guest: Just ten years ago there was, and he was speaking sometimes, "I am the incarnation. I am Brahman."



Prabhupāda: Yes. In Kanpur also one man has been arrested.



*Guest: And just one man, he is coming, and thousands of people just near the (indistinct) protested. They are at liberty. They can do. "Why you are protesting?" Then we told, "He is misrepresenting the Vedānta and ācāryas. He doesn't accept the Veda*-sanctioned authorities, so we don't want him."



Prabhupāda: Now state is secular; *therefore this is the condition. Formerly the kings and the executive heads were very responsible to protect religion. That is the duty of the king, to protect. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was on tour. As soon as he saw that one man is trying to kill a cow, immediately he became fire: "Oh, in my kingdom there is killing of cow? Who are you? I shall immediately kill you." You know this? The kings were taking. The kings were so responsible. But here they have declared... The so*-called kings, they are themselves debauch, and they do not know what is religion. Therefore, in the Kali-yuga there is no other alternative than to chant peacefully, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare... There is no protection. And what does the executive heads, the presidents or secretaries? They simply manipulate some votes, third-class men. Who has written that article?



Devotees: Satsvarūpa.



Prabhupāda: What he has written? "In this age government is ruled by...?"



Guest: The lowest class.



Prabhupāda: "Lowest class of men." He is bold enough to declare like that. One of my, our students, he has written an article in which he has said that "At the present moment, everywhere, the government is ruled by lowest class of men." And he's right in this sense because this is the verdict of the *Vedas*. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Unless one is a devotee of the Personality of Godhead, he cannot have any good qualification. That's a fact. And one who is a devotee, all good qualifications automatically develop. (noise) What is this? Hm?



Guest: He tipped a glass of water.



*Prabhupāda: So as far as possible, let us follow the footsteps of mahājana-mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]*-and depend on Kṛṣṇa and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be all right. The simple method. Try to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teachings. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and be sincere, and, as far as possible, worship the Deity. Everything is all right. [break] ...camp, the servant's camp was overcrowded, and people would come to our camp.



Guest: The university's there. Intellectuals are...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So many judges and high*-court retired justice, they also came. And one retired judge, Gaṅgeśvarānanda, he admitted that "Swamijī, for the first time it is my experience that you are explaining Personality of Godhead so nicely." He was also under the impression God is impersonal. Gaṅgeśvarānanda, yes. [break] Dr. Rao is not here. Who will speak in Hindi? (Hindi or Bengali) (end)





SB 6.3: Lectures





710209SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.3.12-15

-

Gorakhpur, February 9, 1971



Prabhupāda: ...his position. And from his statements any sane man will understand also his position. Don't claim that "I am God. I am Supreme." Just try to understand what is your position. Most insignificant position. How do you claim that you are God?



*So Yamarāja says, (reads Sanskrit commentary) ko 'sau yatra yasmin vittam otam protam urdham urdhva tiryak tanti tu tatavat yasya tu amsabhyo brahma*-visnu-rudrebhyasya trtiyadaya bhagavān tu yasya ca bhase loka vartase nasi nasikayam prota bali madhyam iva vastu.(?) So, before claiming oneself as the Supreme, one should consider how he is the Supreme. There are different controllers. And the supreme controller, as is explained by Yamarāja, is one who creates this cosmic manifestation, maintains, and again annihilates. He is the supreme cont... And this is confirmed by Bhagavad-gītā, that this prakṛti, or the nature, is not working independently. The scientists take it, a platform, that the nature is doing out of its own accord. That is not a very scientific proposal. Anyone knows that nothing takes place automatically unless one living force adjusts the materials. The house does not come automatically, although the ingredients are there. It has to be handled by a living entity, and then the house is appearing as one of the product of this material world. Similarly, we have to consider that this big cosmic manifestation is not creation of blunt material energy. No. That is not possible. There must be. How one can deny God? There is no possibility of denying God.

*So Yamarāja is explaining that "He is above me, the supreme controller, and He is the..., He is such controller that He creates, He maintains, and He annihilates also." We become so much harassed even for creating a family and maintaining them. We have become so much harassed. And foolishly we claim that we are the Supreme Personality of Godhead who creates the whole cosmic manifestation. And Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, the directors of creation department, maintenance department, and annihilation department... Annihilation also required. That annihilation is one of the business of Kṛṣṇa, or God, for this material world. Not in the spiritual world. There is no annihilation. Here it is required. Sometimes, because everyone has come here to lord it over the material nature, so there must be an ultimate situation when it becomes intolerable, and therefore Kṛṣṇa has to annihilate, finish. That is kalki*-avatāra.

*mleccha*-nivaha-nidhane kalayasi karavālaṁ

dhūmaketum iva kim api karālam

*keśava dhṛta*-kalki-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare



*Mleccha. When people become mlecchas... Mleccha means not following the Vedic principles. Those who are following the Vedic principles, they are classified guṇa*-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13], in four divisions. And beyond these four divisions, who are less than śūdras, they are called mlecchas and yavanas and caṇḍālas. Their behavior is so abominable that they cannot be accepted as civilized man. Civilized man, not by so-called material advancement. Civilized man is this four division of society-brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, and śūdras. That is civilized society. Where there is no such division, everyone is a śūdra, that is not a civilized form of society. At the present moment the whole world is... [break]



*Drakṣye tan*-nabhita-susta-māyā sattva-pradhāna api kim tato me. Anye ca ye vrsyasi yo maresa bhrgradayaḥ spṛṣṭa-rajas-tamasya sapta-pradhāna..., drakṣye hi tam na viduḥ spṛṣṭa-māyā sattva-pradhāna api kim tato 'smi.(?) Bhṛgv-ādayaḥ. There are seven ṛṣis headed by Bhṛgu: Bhṛgu, Vasiṣṭha, Ātreya, like that. There are seven great ṛṣis. The seven planets you see on the northern side, they are supposed to be their abodes, bhṛgv-ādayaḥ, centering Dhruvaloka, the polestar. You have seen the seven stars? What is called?

*Devotee: It's called the Little Dipper. Seven*-star formation?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Like that.



Devotee: Box and then one thing going up?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: That's the Dipper.



Prabhupāda: No, no. Seven star in the northern pole, center being the polestar. It is moving whole night.



*Guest: Saptarṣi*-maṇḍala.



*Prabhupāda: Saptarṣi*-maṇḍala, yes. That saptarṣi-maṇḍala is the abode of great seven ṛṣis. So here it is said, Yamarāja says, "Even the seven ṛṣis..." They are controlling the affairs, like the demigods, and they are brāhmaṇas amongst the demigods, the great sages. The demigods, some of them are brāhmaṇas, some of them are kṣatriyas, exactly in the same way. So this bhṛgv-ādayaḥ ṛṣis, they are brāhmaṇas. Sattva-guṇa-pradhānāḥ. Sattva-pradhānāḥ. They are standing on the modes of goodness. So... And they are viśva-sṛjo 'mareśāḥ. Amara. Amara means the demigods. They are supposed to be amara in our calculation. Just like Brahmā. We cannot calculate his duration of life. His duration of life is so long that it is beyond our calculation. Therefore they are sometimes called amara. Amara means immortal. Although none of them are immortal, but... Just like in comparison to a germ or... What is called in our, in Diwali, during? What is that, that worms? They generate in the night, in the evening, and at the end of the night, finished. During... We call deoyāli-pokā in Bengali. What do you call in Hindi? You have not seen?



Devotee (1): Glowworms.



Prabhupāda: No, no. Glowworm is different. They..., small. They generate in the evening, lots of. They come, attack the light.



Guest: Pataṅga.



*Prabhupāda: Pataṅga. And many millions gather, and in the morning finished. Within that period their birth, death, marriage, and children-everything finished. Now, for them, suppose such pataṅgas, whose life is only, say, twelve hours, within that hours they finish all business. So if they are told that "You are doing so much, but there is another, man*-this night is only twelve hours; similarly, another twelve hours, day; similarly, another such thirty days makes a month; such twelve months makes a year; *and such hundred years they live," so they will be surprised: "How is that?" Similarly, we are surprised also when we hear about Brahmā. Sahasra*-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Actually in the higher planet our six months is equal to their one day. Just like when the sputniks were thrown in the outer space, they circulated the whole world in one hour, twenty-five minutes. One hour, twenty-five was all. They circulated three times within one hours, twenty-five minutes. Such a speed. Now actually, in our calculation the whole world can be circumambulated in twenty-four hours. But that is reduced to one hour, twenty-five. That is admitted by Einstein. This is called relative, relativity, according to the speed. Just like when you travel by airplane from here to London it takes, say, about nine hours. That is relative, relative to the force. Similarly, everything is relative. We are thinking that Brahmā's duration of life is so great, but it is also hundred years. But it is... You will understand very nicely. You can explain. According to our calculation they are immortal. Just like according to calculation of the pataṅga, our life is immortal. You see. They will calculate, "Oh, these human beings are immortal." But none of them are immortal. So we call them immortal, the demigods. Amareśāḥ.



So amareśāḥ, they are the bhṛgv-ādaya-ṛṣis, great ṛṣis, or Indra, Candra, and so many demigods. They are looking after the management of this universe. Bhṛgv-ādayaḥ. But they are also attacked, contaminated, by these qualities of ignorance and passion and goodness. Some of them are in goodness; some of them are in passion; *some of them in ignorance. They are not free. The proportion may be... Because their duration of life is greater, far, far greater than ours, the proportion may be different, but they are not free. That is stated here. Nobody is free. Anye ca ye viśva*-sṛjo 'mareśā bhṛgv-ādayo 'spṛṣṭa-rajas-tamaskāḥ. Spṛṣṭa, they are also contaminated. Nobody... Unless one is completely free from this contamination, nobody is allowed to enter in the spiritual kingdom. Śuddha-sattva. Śuddha-sattva means...Even one is situated in that sattva-guṇa, he is not completely pure. Sometimes the other two qualities, ignorance and passion, may attack.

*Therefore Yamarāja says, yasyehitaṁ na viduḥ: "They also tried to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such great personalities whose duration of life is so long, who are so advanced in the modes of goodness, they also try to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Na viduḥ: "But they could not do so." And what to speak of us? It is said also that Ananta, He has got unlimited faces, Anantadeva...You have seen the picture, Viṣṇu... Holding over the head of Viṣṇu is Ananta. Ananta-śayyā. So Ananta, He has ananta hoods and ananta mouth and... Ananta means unlimited. And He is trying to chant the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead unlimitedly in unlimited time. Still, it is unfinished. Still, it is unfinished. So yasyehitaṁ na viduḥ. Why? If they are so much advanced, why they cannot? Spṛṣṭa-māyāḥ: "They are also contaminated by māyā." Spṛṣṭa-māyāḥ. Sattva-pradhānāḥ: "Their position in the platform of goodness, on the quality of goodness, that is very prominent, but they are not free from the contamination." Just like in this, our experience, a first-class brāhmaṇa, he is supposed a first-class man. But still there is contamination. At least this contamination is there: "Oh, I am a brāhmaṇa. I am brāhmaṇa. I am greater than all others. I am learned, and I know all the Vedas. I know what is what. I understand Brahman. Because brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ, so he knows. So all these qualities, first-class brāhmaṇa, but still he is contaminated because he is proud: "I am this. I am this." That is material identification. That is... He is not free from the material identification. And this proud, this pride, when increases, then there is falldown, which has caused this falldown of the brāhmaṇas of this age. Unnecessarily they became pride and tried to dominate over the other classes. And they saw... Gradually they degraded in their qualities, and they saw, "Why this class of men..." That is being protested still*-who are known to be brāhmaṇas, they should go over everyone. "We are also qualified." Therefore, instead of cooperation there was misunderstanding, and the whole structure of Vedic society became dismantled. The whole Vedic society. They are simply now proud: "I am brāhmaṇa. I am kṣatriya."

*But according to our Bhāgavata school or the Vedānta school... Bhāgavata is the Vedānta, you should always remember. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma*-sūtrāṇām **. It is the right commentary on the Brahma-sūtra, Vedānta. So the falldown takes place not only of the brāhmaṇas, but also of the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, and the śūdras. How the falldown takes place?

ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād

*ātma*-prabhavam īśvaram

na bhajanty avajānanti

sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ



When these classes of men forget that we are all parts and parcels of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as soon as they neglect... Always remember: being parts and parcel, our duty is to serve the Supreme. The same example: the finger, hand, being part and parcel of body, is always engaged in the service of the whole. So these brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, śūdras, they are also parts and parcels, the same position. Brāhmaṇa is the head, kṣatriya is the arm, vaiśya is the belly, and the śūdras... But everything is required. If you want to keep up your body in sound condition of... Any part of the body is important. Comparatively, the head is most important. But other parts, you cannot say they are not important. But when there is competition, that "I am the most important. You are nothing," or "I am something. You are nothing," in this way we forget to serve the whole, and that becomes the cause of our falldown. Na bhajanty avajānanti. Gradually, by their degradation, they forget service of Kṛṣṇa. Simply they fight for their position. Then they fall down their position. Sthānād bhraṣṭaḥ patanty adhaḥ. They are no more brāhmaṇas or kṣatriyas; *they are all rascals. One who forgets the service of the Lord, in spite of His appearing in a brāhmaṇa family or a kṣatriya family, he is rascal. He is nothing. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇāḥ. All these guṇas... Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. All the guṇas are lost.



*So Yamarāja says... It sometimes takes place in the great. Just like Bhṛgu Muni. There was meeting, "Who is the greatest, the three deities, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara?" So Bhṛgu Muni was deputed to test. And he purposefully kicked on the chest of Viṣṇu. So the so-called brāhmaṇas, they take pride: "Oh, our community man was able to kick." Even in Tulasī Dāsa's Rāmāyaṇa that is very... But no brāhmaṇas should discuss. The kicking on the chest of Viṣṇu, that was a different matter. But the so-called brāhmaṇas are very much proud that "We are so great that we can kick on the chest of Viṣṇu." They described this incident very proudly, nonsensically. Bhṛgv-ādayaḥ. Bhṛgu is considered to be great ṛṣi. But Yamarāja says-he is mahājana, he is authority*-that "They are also contaminated." That Bhṛgu dared to kick on the chest of Viṣṇu, being contaminated by the brahminical... "I am so great. I can do that." So when such great personalities like Bhṛgu Muni, Parāśara Muni, er, I mean to say, Vasiṣṭha, and Ātreya, they are so much contaminated, what to speak of others? How they will understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by mental speculation? They will conclude naturally, "Imperson." That's all. It is not possible for them. Only the devotees, they can understand what is the actual identification of the Absolute Truth. Yasyehitaṁ na viduḥ spṛṣṭa-māyāḥ sattva-pradhānā api kiṁ tato 'nye. What others can do it.

*So yasya ca līlā durvibhavya ity aham iti vādyam. Na spṛṣṭaṁ rajas*-tamaṁ ye iti tam abhyehi pretam ceṣṭitaṁ vā na viduḥ.(?) Although they are freed from the contamination of the lower-grade qualities, still they could not understand, although there is possibility. There is possibility. Sattva-guṇa-pradhānāḥ. The brāhmaṇas..., it is for the brāhmaṇas. By quality, they can understand to some extent. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. He has to become Vaiṣṇava. Simply brahminical qualification will not help him. That is the greatest qualification within this material world. But still, he has to surpass that... Just like postgraduate. The brāhmaṇas may be graduate. Others, they are not graduate. They are, say, ISA matriculate, like that. But even the brāhmaṇa has to become... That is also stated. Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipraḥ, nipuṇa, mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. A brāhmaṇa, his qualification is that he knows what is his business. And that business is ṣaṭ-karma. Ṣaṭ-karma means a brāhmaṇa has to become very learned. Paṭhana. He must be a serious student of Vedic religion. That is first qualification. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipraḥ. And he has studied all these Vedic literatures, and he remains a fool, that is... Immediately he is disqualified. So paṭhana-pāṭhana. Not that he would simply take advantage of the knowledge without distributing it. Therefore a brāhmaṇa's business is to distribute the knowledge. Just like yesterday we saw. There is a small school. That's a very nasty condition. But this is the business of the brāhmaṇas. In the village a brāhmaṇa would sit down and the village boys and girls would come there to learn from him, and they will bring some presentation. That will be his livelihood. A brāhmaṇa hasn't got to go anywhere to seek his livelihood. So therefore paṭhana-pāṭhana. He should be himself very learned scholar, and he should try to make others also like him.

*Paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana. He should also worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and he should try to induce others to come to that position. Paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. The brāhmaṇa is offered donation. That is the system. But he not should keep it for his personal... As soon as he gets donation, he spends for some service of the Lord. Even a brāhmaṇa gets one lakh of rupees, next morning he is still a beggar because he does not keep anything for tomorrow. Everything depending on Kṛṣṇa, and he spends money like that. Paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana-yājana dāna-pratigraha. The brāhmana is, I mean to say, allowed. A brāhmaṇa is allowed to take charity from others*-a sannyāsī and a brāhmaṇa. No other is allowed. Nowadays it is come, daridra-nārāyaṇa. Daridra. "The poor man become Nārāyaṇa; therefore he should be served." This nonsensical theory has come up by some nonsense. But actually a qualified brāhmaṇa should be given charity. A sannyāsī, Vaiṣṇava, should be given charity. That is sāttvika charity. And rājasika charity means to open hospital, schools. These are rājasika charity. And tāmasika charity means without any discrimination, a Bowery man given one rupee and immediately purchase a bottle of wine. So this is tāmasika charity. By tāmasika charity, one is degraded.

*So śāstra says, ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. He is not only... A brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, is expert in these six kinds of businesses, but he should be very much expert in chanting the Vedic mantras, hymns, mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, very expert. And even he is expert in such way, if he is avaiṣṇava, if he has no tendency for rendering devotional service to the Lord, avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt, he cannot be a guru. Even without... Even with all the qualifications, if he is avaiṣṇava... You will find, there are many brāhmaṇas, they are smārtas. They are called smārta, means they are under conclusion that "If we do nice Vedic..., perform nice Vedic rituals, then our duty is finished. These devotees, they are chanting. They are less intelligent class of men. They do not, cannot do anything. They have taken to this process." So therefore he is avaiṣṇava. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya. He was accompanied by very, very learned men, learned brāhmaṇas. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu and both of them embraced and were crying in ecstasy, the brāhmaṇas, the smārta-brāhmaṇas, they could not understand that "Why this great personality, governor...? He is so great and simply by embracing a sannyāsī he is crying. And why this sannyāsī... It is understood that He is coming from a brāhmaṇa family. And He has taken such a great personality. Why He is crying by embracing Rāmānanda?" They could not understand. And as soon as Lord Caitanya saw that the smārtas are puzzled, He stopped. He stopped. Perhaps you know this incidence. So the smārtas, they cannot understand the... Smārta, jāta-gosāi. The smārtas, to pull on their business, so they have become gosvāmīs. But actually they are not devotees. So these gosvāmīs will go to a devotee, and one who is willing to accept a spiritual master. Then they will offer different kinds of mantras: "You want to worship Kṛṣṇa? All right. I will give you Kṛṣṇa mantra. You want to worship Kālī? I will give you kālī-mantra." This way the business is going on.

*So that sort of qualification is not very good qualification. One should be actually a surrendered soul. That will make him qualified. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām. Here it is said, spṛṣṭa*-māyāḥ. Even such qualified brāhmaṇas, they are also spṛṣṭa-māyāḥ, contaminated by the touch of māyā, māyā-grasta. He is not free. But Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Only a fully surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa is able to get out of the contamination of māyā. Therefore such surrendered soul can understand what is Kṛṣṇa, not others. Not others.

yaṁ vai na gobhir manasāsubhir vā

*hṛdā girā vāsu*-bhṛto vicakṣate

*ātmānam antar*-hṛdi santam ātmanāṁ

cakṣur yathaivākṛtayas tataḥ param



*Tan māyā*-mohitam, mohitād na jānanty ity uktam.



*So the conclusion is that nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am not revealed to everyone." Yogamāyā. Therefore very few persons can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not reveal Himself. Those who are devotees... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. Those who are actually devotees, dedicated the life and everything for Kṛṣṇa, for them only, Kṛṣṇa reveals: "Yes, I am like this." Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Those who are twenty-four hours engaged in the devotional service*-not as a routine, but with faith and love-bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. Not that official. Official, he cannot understand. But one who is serving the Deity with love and faith, to him only, Kṛṣṇa will reveal and He will give intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje... Only intelligent men can worship Kṛṣṇa.

*So here it is said, yaṁ vai na gobhir manasāsubhir vā hṛdā girā vāsu*-bhṛto vicakṣate. (reads commentary) Tan māyā-mohitād na jānanty ity uktam, avaśed tata tasya ityāhayam iti. Gobhir indriyair cittena na vicakṣata na paśyanti.(?) So gobhiḥ, by sensual gymnastic or mental speculation, the Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot be understood. There are many mental speculator, just like Aurobindo Ghosh. So he speculated. He understood that there are activities even after liberation, but he could not understand Kṛṣṇa, so hard it is. Others, the so-called sannyāsīs, just like Ramatirtha or Vivekananda, they could not approach even, in the modern age. And the Aurobindo, he approached up to the Brahman liberation, but he could not approach to the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is... Arjuna says also in the Bhagavad-gītā, "It is very difficult to understand Your personality." Everyone becomes... The other day in the Melā, Māgha-melā, one Gangeshvarananda, retired high-court judge, he said that "This is the first time, Swamijī, that we are hearing from you on solid basis about the Personality." The whole world, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi... Nirviśeṣa... Means the impersonalists and voidists, that's all. They have no understanding what is Personality of Godhead. Gobhir indriyair hṛdā cittena na vicakṣate. One cannot, a gobhiḥ, by exercise of the senses. Gobhiḥ and indriyair hṛdā, heart also, meditation. The jñānīs, the speculators, they are speculating by sensual activities, and the yogis, they are trying to find out the Supreme within the heart, cittena. So na paśyanti: "But they cannot see." They cannot see. So jñānīs, the yogis, they cannot understand. Although they are trying for it, they cannot understand. It is clearly said, hṛdā girā vāsu-bhṛto vicakṣate. Yad vāca nābhūd dhṛtaṁ yan manaḥ manute ityādi śruteḥ.(?) And he is giving recitation from the Vedas: yad vāca nābhūd dhṛtaṁ yan manaḥ manute ityādi śruteḥ. Avann mānasa-gocaraḥ.(?) He is beyond the reception of mental speculation or philosophical topics.

*(reading commentary) Ātmānaṁ jīvanam ātmānaṁ drastaram yam ākṛte rūpāṇi cakṣur yathā karmabhūt na jānanti. Tataḥ param ākṛte nāyaṁ prakāśakaṁ nāhi pramattaḥ pranmanasya viṣaya iti bhāvam. Evaṁ bhūta parameśvara mad*-anyasyeti pūrvenaiva sambandhaḥ.(?) So he is trying to explain about his master, that it is not very easily understood. That was the point of Yamarāja to his assistants, that "People like you, they think that Yamarāja... I am the supreme. But that's not a fact. The fact is I am also controlled by another supreme master." And how to know him he is describing. He is describing that, "It is not possible to know Him in this way. It is not possible in this way. Even great sages and ṛṣis, they could not understand in this way. Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute... Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labh... This is Vedic injunction. Simply by talking, becoming a very nice speaker or lecturer. you cannot understand the Supreme. Nāyam ātmā na medhayā. Because you have got very nice brain, therefore you will be able to understand-no. Na medhayā. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na. Then how? Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute tena labhyaḥ-labhyaḥ Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.23. "Only such person who is favored by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he can understand." He can understand. Otherwise, nobody can understand. So therefore our business should be how to get His favor. And that favor, that is very easy to understand, that if you surrender to a person, then you can get his favor; otherwise not. This is process of understanding the Supreme Personality. [break]

*Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. These are Vedic injunctions. Bahunā śrutena. Śruti means education. Not by medhā, brain, and not by education, not by lecturing, but simply by surrendering. Or... Surrendering, or simply by the mercy, by the causeless mercy of the Lord. By... His causeless mercy to this age is simple. Immediately says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66], sarva-guhyatamam: "The most confidential part of My instruction is this, that you simply surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān. Sarva-guhyatamam. What is that verse? Mahārāja, you can say? Sarva-guhyatamam. No, no. In the Bhagavad-gītā. Before this sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], there is another verse. Where is the Bhagavad-gītā? Not English. I want original Sanskrit. Sarva-guhyatamaṁ bhūyaḥ. Sarva-guhyatamaṁ bhūyaḥ śṛṇu me paramaṁ vacaḥ: "The most confidential instruction, just try to understand." (Hindi) "Surrender unto Me." They cannot understand: "Why shall I surrender?" But it is the most confidential instruction. Those who cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā, they will put forward, "Why should we surrender? Kṛṣṇa has said about jñāna, about karma, about yoga. Why not these processes?" But he does not know that is the ultimate process. The jñāna, yoga, may help one to come to that point, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19], after many many births, but that is not the direct process. The direct process is sarva-guhyatamaṁ bhūyaḥ śṛṇu me paramaṁ vacaḥ iṣṭo 'si: "I am disclosing this most confidential part of My instruction unto you," iṣṭo 'si, "because I love you." Iṣṭo 'si me dṛḍham iti. "Because I am confident that you are My confidential friend." Dṛḍham iti tato vakṣyāmi te hitam: "Therefore I am disclosing this to you."

*Kṛṣṇa does not say everyone that sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], only to a selected devotee. Because unless one is very highly elevated devotee, he cannot accept this proposition. He is puffed up with his material, contaminated life. That's all. "I am this. I am that. I am this. I am that. Why shall I surrender?" Actually they forgot. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "This is sophistry, that Kṛṣṇa is demanding like that." He is proud of his becoming a great philosophy, but he does not know he is a fool number one. He comments on the Bhagavad-gītā in a different way. That he does not know. Therefore he is surprised: "How this gentleman, Kṛṣṇa, is asking to surrender? I am so proud. I am so learned." But this is the only process. What is that? He again explains it: man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. The same thing which was instructed in the Ninth...

*man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto

*mad*-yājī māṁ namaskuru

mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te

pratijāne priyo 'si me

[Bg. 18.65]



Priyo 'si me: "Because you are My very dear friend, you have fully surrendered unto Me, therefore I am speaking to you." Then He says,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*These three verses are the ultimate instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-guhyatamam.



*So people do not understand, and they read Bhagavad*-gītā daily. And they are very much proud: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā daily." If anyone actually reads Bhagavad-gītā, then he will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is meant for that purpose. But they do not read actually. They simply make a show. Neither do they understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Is that all right? So we have to preach in that spirit.

What is the next program? (end)



710210SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.3.16-17

-

Gorakhpur, February 10, 1971



Prabhupāda:



yaṁ vai na gobhir manasāsubhir vā

*hṛdā girā vāsu*-bhṛto vicakṣate

*ātmānam antar*-hṛdi santam ātmanāṁ

*(sic:) yac*-cakṣur yathaivākṛtayāntaḥ param

[SB 6.3.16]



*Tasmād..., tan*-māyā-mohitatvād na jānanti ity uktam aviṣayatvāc ca tasya ity āha. So Śrīdhāra Swami give his comment that "Those who are," I mean to say, "involved with the material energy..." This material energy means the three modes of passion, ignorance, and goodness. Tan-māyā-mohita. This is the moha. Moha means illusion. Anyone who is contaminated by these three qualities of māyā, he is supposed to be involved in māyika, or material existence. Tan-māyā-mohitatvād na jānanti: "And anyone who is involved with the material qualities of this external energy, they cannot understand what is God." It is not possible. Aviṣayatvāc ca. This is not their subject matter at all. The subject matter for them different. Therefore we see. They are becoming educated, scientists, philosophers, but they do not understand what is God. Avisayatvāc ca. It is not their subject matter. That I repeatedly say, that one who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, it is, Bhagavad-gītā is not a subject matter for their study, what to speak of commenting upon it? He has no business to comment on Bhagavad-gītā because it is not their subject matter. This should be very distinctly understood. There is a Bengali parable, ādhāra vyapari yahāre khabola (?). Ādhāra vyapari, a merchant dealing in ginger, so he is taking information, "What about the shipping one..., just like one cartload or one ship full of ginger?" So ādhāre vyapari means he has not very large quantity to sell. Ginger is taken, very little quantity. So ginger merchant, if he has got stock, say, one bag, it will take months together to sell it. And if he thinks that "I will stock hundreds of bags," it is useless for him. That is not his subject. But one who sells rice or wheat, that is in great demand. That he can stock and talk of large shipment. Similarly, those who are already engrossed in material qualities, the science of God is not their subject matter at all. So that is the test. Just like who shall be the guru? Whose subject matter is only Kṛṣṇa or God, he shall be guru, not an amateur man. He is doing some other business, and in some pastime he makes a guru business. No, that is not their subject matter. The subject matter is different.



*Therefore Śrīdhāra Swami says, aviṣayatvāc ca tasya ity āha, gobhir indriyair na cittena: "Because the subject matter is not for them, however they may exercise their senses, gobhiḥ..." Go means indra (indriya). Simply by exercising... Just like there are so many yogis. They exercise their senses only*-yama, niyama, prāṇāyāma-senses. But it is not their subject matter to understand God. They may show some jugglery or some gymnastic, wonderful, or they may get some material perfection, animā... The eight kinds of perfection in yoga system... One can become very small. Just like there was a trailiṅga swami in Benares. He was staying naked on the street, and the police objected, and he was put into police custody. He again came out. That means people became more devoted to him. But still... This is a perfection by the gymnastic of yoga process, but that does not mean he knows God. That does not mean. There was another yogi in Benares. Anyone who would come to him, immediately in a pot he will present two rasagullā. And after eating two rasagullā, the man will be captivated, and big man, manager of bank and this and that, and they... They become captivated. He does not know "What he has given me? Two rasagullā. Say, two annas, or four annas at most." So, but they become captivated: "Oh, here is a yogi. He can manufacture immediately." In Calcutta I was passing in a street, Cornwallis Street, and there was some crowd, and I entered that crowd, long ago, when I was young man. So I saw that he was a Muhammadan (indistinct). He was giving everyone some pieces of grass, straw. So he gave me one. So I saw it is raisin, kismis. You see? So I immediate threw it away and went away. So some yogi can show. He'll press his beads, and there milk will come. So there are so many yogic fantasies. But that does not mean that he knows God. Or a great philosopher like Dr. Radhakrishnan, that does not mean he knows God.

*Therefore Brahma*-saṁhitā says, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyam purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca vedeṣu durlabha [Bs. 5.33]. Simply by Vedic knowledge it is very difficult to understand what is Govinda. Vedeṣu durlabha adurlabha ātma-bhaktau: "But He is available from His pure devotees." So here the same thing is stated by Yamarāja. Yaṁ vai na gobhir manasāsubhir vā hṛdā girā vāsu-bhṛto vicakṣate. So ātmānaṁ jīvanam ātmānaṁ draṣṭāraṁ yam akṛtayaḥ rūpāṇi cakṣur yathā karma-bhūtaṁ na jānanti tataḥ param akṛtinaṁ prakāśakaṁ na hi pramata-pramāṇasya viṣaya iti. Bhāla. So our bhakti process is not to try to see God personally. Just like the karmīs, they challenge, "If we can see eye to eye, God?" No. That is not our process. Our process is different. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches us, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanān [Cc. Antya 20.47]. Every devotee likes to see, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that "Even if You make me broken-hearted, not being seen for life or perpetually, it doesn't matter. Still, You are my worshipable Lord." That is pure devotee. Just like there is a song, "My dear Lord, please appear before me, dancing with Your flute." This is not devotion. This is not devotion. People may think, "Oh, how great devotee he is, asking Kṛṣṇa to come before him dancing." That means ordering Kṛṣṇa. A devotee does not order anything or ask anything from Kṛṣṇa, but he loves only. That is the pure love. That is the teaching of Lord Caitanya. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām: [Cc. Antya 20.47] "Either You embrace me or You trample down, You give me all kinds of miserable life and You break my heart, not being seen by me..." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prayer in His ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī.

*So that is wanted. So we should not try to see God. Then we'll be baffled. Sometimes if, trying, trying, if I baffled-I cannot see-then I'll conclude, "There is no God. If there was God, I prayed so much and He did not appear before me. Oh, this... It is all humbug." You see? So pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], without any desire. Simply one desire, that "How I shall be able to satisfy Kṛṣṇa?" That registered... Where is Mr. Singh? He was saying that "I shall do my duty, and I do not want to know whether Kṛṣṇa is pleased or not pleased." This is not bhakti. This is not bhakti. Bhakti means the bhakta's only business is to understand whether Kṛṣṇa is pleased by my activity. That is bhakta's business. But because they have no relationship with God, they are puzzled that "How I shall understand whether Kṛṣṇa is pleased or not?" They are puzzled. That answer is given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ: ** "If you please the representative of Kṛṣṇa, guru, then He is pleased." Yasya prasādād bhagavat... Otherwise you cannot understand whether Kṛṣṇa is pleased or not. You can understand also, because if you follow the Kṛṣṇa's instructions... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If one is completely surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and he has no other business than to serve Him, then he can understand that "I am now... Even if I do not understand whether Kṛṣṇa is pleased or not, by the formula I can understand that because I am fully surrendered*-I have no other business-then Kṛṣṇa must be pleased." That is the... And practical.

*Kṛṣṇa appears in two ways. He appears as antaryāmi, the Supersoul within himself, within oneself, and He appears as the spiritual master, externally. Caitya*-guru and dīkṣā-guru. Caitya-guru... As caitya-guru, as the supreme spiritual master, He is in everyone's heart. And His representative... In order to help externally the sincere person, He sends the spiritual master. Therefore the spiritual master from outside and the caitya-guru from inside, they are helping. The Supreme Personality is helping a devotee, a real, serious devotee two ways: from within, from without. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta therefore says that kṛṣṇera prakāśa, manifestation of Kṛṣṇa, a spiritual master. And Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya aprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi: ** "If I can satisfy my spiritual master, then I understand that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And if I cannot satisfy my spiritual master, then I have no other way to approach Kṛṣṇa." These songs we sing every day. So my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Instead of seeing Kṛṣṇa, you serve so faithfully that Kṛṣṇa will see you." That should be the process. Kṛṣṇa is omnipresent. He can see you, He can understand you, what are doing. So we have to execute devotional service in such a faithful way that Kṛṣṇa will see us. Then you will be successful. "Don't try to see Kṛṣṇa. Try to become seen by Kṛṣṇa." That was my Guru Mahārāja's instruction. Cakṣur yathaiva kṛtayaiva antaḥ-param. Tasyātma-tantrasya harer ahīśituḥ parasya māyādhipater mahātmanaḥ. Evaṁ bhūtaḥ parameśvaraḥ mad-anyad astīti.

Now, Yamarāja says that "I have got a master like that." The Yamarāja has anubhūti. Therefore he describes what is the nature, characteristics, of his master. Yamarāja also does not say that "I have seen my master." But he still accepts that there is a master. "I am not all in all." Never said... In these ślokas we do not find anywhere Yamarāja says that "I have seen Him." It is very common thing. Now the government is going on. Not that everyone has seen the president or the king, but still, the government is so nicely managed that everyone knows that there is an executive head. So there is no question of this villainy that "There is no God. I do not believe in God. God is dead," or "Everyone is God." Not like that.

*tasyātma*-tantrasya harer ahīśituḥ

parasya māyādhipater mahātmanaḥ

prāyeṇa dūtā iha vai manoharāś

*caranti tad*-rūpa-guṇa-svabhāvāḥ

[SB 6.3.17]



Now, Yamarāja says that,



bhavaty evaṁ bhūta anyaṁ

parameśvara ye punar asmād

*niduḥṣasya pāpinaṁ rakṣita*-vāñchā

te ke tān āha tasyeti dvābhyām (?)



*So the Yamadūtas inquired from Yamarāja, "Whether there is another controller than yourself?" So that he has described, that "There is supreme controller than myself." Tasyeva rūpaṁ guṇaḥ prabhāvaḥ prabhāvāya svabhāvaṁ bhakta*-vatsalyādi yeṣām. So that tasyātma-tantrasya harer ahīśituḥ parasya māyādhipater mahātmanaḥ, so he is informing that "There are Viṣṇudūtas also. They are..." Viṣṇudūta means devotees, the devotee of Lord Viṣṇu. "They are also..." Just, the Yamadūtas, they are also traveling everywhere to find out... Not to find out. Everyone is sinful. "Similarly, there are Viṣṇudūtas also." That is the information. "They are also seeing, inspecting what kinds of actions we are actually performing." Prāyeṇa dūta iha vai manoharaḥ. Because the Viṣṇudūtas came to take away Ajāmila, so they were surprised, that "Who these persons, the great personalities, were there?" So now Yamarāja is explaining that "These manohara, these beautiful personalities who appeared, they are Viṣṇudūtas. Just like you are Yamadūtas, similarly, they are Viṣṇudūtas." Prāyeṇa dūtā iha vai manoharāś caranti. Caranti: "They also travel all over the universe." And what is their qualities? Tad-rūpa-guṇa-svabhāvāḥ: "Exactly looking like Viṣṇu, four hands with śaṅkha-cakra-gadā-padma, tad-rūpa." This is called liberation of possessing the similar feature of the body as Lord Viṣṇu. Tad-rūpa-guṇa-svabhāvāḥ. And their qualities are also the same. And svabhāvāḥ, and nature, character, is also the same. That is oneness. When one is liberated in his original spiritual feature, he becomes equal, just like in svarūpa, in form; guṇa, in quality; and svabhāvāḥ, characteristics, exactly like Viṣṇu. Prāyeṇa dūtā: "It is very difficult to recognize." Just like in this world also, if the president or the king comes in common dress, you cannot understand who is president, who is king and who is a common man. Similarly, in the Vaikuṇṭha world also the inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha, they have got the same feature of the body, same qualities, and same characteristics. This is described here. Try to understand. What is that?



Revatīnandana: I'm feeling a little chilly.



*Prabhupāda: Prāyeṇa dūtā iha vai manoharāś caranti tad*-rūpa-guṇa-svabhāvāḥ, bhūtāni viṣṇoḥ sura-pūjitāni: "These Viṣṇudūtas, they are not only worshipable by common men, but they are worshipable by the demigods." Sura-pūjitāni. Sura means the demigods. Pūjitāni: "They are worshiped." Bhutāni viṣṇoḥ: "Those who are associates of Lord Viṣṇu..."



*So there is no question of impersonalism. This oneness with God and the living entity, these are the oneness, that they attain the same quality, the same characteristics, the same feature of the body. That is oneness. Not that they have no individuality. God has got individuality and His devotees or the living entities, even though not devotees, nondevotees, everyone has got individuality. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I, you, and all these persons who have assembled here in the Battle of Kurukṣetra, they existed in the past, they are existing at the present moment, and they will continue to exist in the future." Now, where is the question of mixing together? They existed as they are existing now, and at the present moment they are existing as individuals, and in the past, they also existed as individuals, and the future, they will continue to exist as individuals. So there is no question of losing the individuality. That's a theory only. No living entity loses his individuality even after liberation. They try to keep mixed up with others. Just like the sunshine is a combination of molecular parts, something shining. Is it not? Similarly, brahmajyoti is combination of the individual parts and parcels of God. But without individual activity they cannot stay in the brahmajyoti for long. Because everyone wants some individual activity. Just like we are sitting together now. After some hour, every one of us will feel what is our individual... Everyone will be engaged in his individual activity. Therefore, according to Bhagavat-siddhānta, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti [SB 10.2.32]. The individual soul who simply tries to merge into the effulgence, Brahman effulgence... That position is attained after many, many years' austerity and penances. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. Kṛcchreṇa means with great trouble and difficulty one is elevated to that position, merging into the impersonal brahmajyoti. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. That is called paraṁ padam. But again says, patanty adhaḥ: "But they still, again they are prone to fall down." Why they fall down? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ: "Because they do not care for Your lotus feet."

*That has been practically experienced. In our country many many, very, very big swamis, they attain perfection and realize that he is Brahman. But after a time again comes down to this material field of worker, opening hospital, schools. So these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they say that the world is false. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. So if the world is false, then why they come down to open schools and colleges and hospitals? That means they could not stay in the Brahman atmosphere for want of activity. Therefore this devotional service is Brahman activity. One can stay. Without this Brahman activity, even one is elevated to the Brahman position, he falls down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They are not very much inclined or decline practically to accept this devotional service. The Māyāvādīs, they say this devotional service, this arcana-śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]*-they take it as a means to merge into the Brahman effulgence. They do not understand that this is the perpetual engagement of a devotee. Nitya-yuktā upāsate. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that devotees, they are eternally engaged in devotional service. Eternally means after liberation, not that after liberation the whole thing is changed. No. The process is so transcendental that the devotees, they are serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even when he is conditioned... A devotee is not conditioned. Even accepting he is conditioned, but his engagement in the liberation stage does not change. The same condition goes on, the same worshiping, his chanting.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*bhūtāni viṣṇoḥ sura*-pūjitāni

*durdarśa*-liṅgāni mahādbhutāni

*rakṣanti tad*-bhaktimataḥ parebhyo

mattaś ca martyān atha sarvataś ca



*Very nice verse. The Yamarāja says that "These bhutāni viṣṇoḥ, viṣṇu*-bhutāni, the Vaiṣṇava, the Viṣṇudūtas, they are worshiped by the demigods. Anywhere they go, they are worshiped." They are worshipable, Vaiṣṇava. As God is worshipable, similarly, the Vaiṣṇava, or the God's servant, they are also worshipable. And Kṛṣṇa says, mad bhakta-pūjābhyadhikā [SB 11.19.21]. So, "Anyone who worships My devotee, he renders devotional service better than by worshiping Me directly." So therefore He says in another...,



ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt

nāvamanyeta karhicit

*na martya*-buddhyāsūyeta

*sarva*-deva-mayo guruḥ

[SB 11.17.27]



*There is another version that Kṛṣṇa says... These are stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam while He was talking with Uddhava, Eleventh Canto. Just like Kṛṣṇa had talks with Arjuna, which is known as Arjuna-gītā, similarly, He had talks with Uddhava, another devotee. That is known as Uddhava-gītā. So in that Uddhava-gītā these statements are there, that ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt nāvamanyeta karhicit: "Ācārya should be known as good as God." That is confirmed in Viśvanātha Cakravartī... Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. He also refers to the śāstra, not that he is opining by his own intellect. No. That is the speciality of learned scholars and devotees. They should immediately give evidence from the śāstra. Viśvanātha Cakravartī said that "Guru is as good as God by the verdict of the śāstra." Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. And Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt: "Ācārya should be known as good as Myself." Nāvamanyeta karhicit: "Never become disobedient to ācārya." Na martya buddhyāsūyeta: "Never be envious of the ācārya, considering him to be an ordinary person." Nāvamanyeta karhicit. Sarva-deva-mayo. By worshiping ācārya... And Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ācāryopāsanam. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. These things are there.



*So these, I mean to say, assistants and associates of Viṣṇu, Viṣṇudūta, it is stated, Yamarāja says... Yamarāja is Mahājana, therefore we have to accept. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. The Yamarāja says that bhūtāni viṣṇoḥ sura*-pūjitāni durdarśa-liṅgāni mahādbhūtāni. Durdarśa. It is very difficult to find out them, because in our experience within this material world, perhaps only Brahmā has four hands, and Viṣṇu has four hands, and sometimes Lord Śiva has also four hands because they are biggest of all the demigods. But ordinary living entities, hardly one can find out a person with four hands. Therefore it is said here, durdarśa liṅgāni: "They are very rarely to be seen." But mahadbhūtāni: "They are wonderful." Mahādbhūtāni. Rakṣanti tad-bhaktimataḥ parebhyo. And what is their business? The business is rakṣanti tad-bhakta. "Their business is to give protection to the devotees of the Lord." Rakṣanti tad-bhakta mataḥ parebhyo. Just like Ajāmila was attacked by the Yamadūtas. Immediately they came and protected. Parebhyo. Rakṣanti tad-bhaktimataḥ parebhyo mattaś ca martyān atha sarvataś ca: "And they give protection from my jurisdiction. I may be sometimes mistaken to go to a person who is completely a devotee. Therefore they are required, 'No, you cannot come here.' " These things are stated.

*viṣṇu*-bhūtāni bhūtyā durdarśāni

draṣṭum apy asāṅkhyāni rūpāṇi

*yeṣāṁ tāni bhakti*-mata viṣṇu-bhaktān

parebhyaḥ śatrubhyaḥ martyasya



*There is no use to become envious of a devotee because a devotee, a pure devotee, will always be protected by these Viṣṇudūtas as they have protected Ajamila. Parebhyo. Parebhyo, Śrīdhāra Swamijī's gives śatru, enemies. In this world, although a devotee is ajāta-śatru, he does not do anything which will create enemy, but the nature of the world is that they will become envious. Any person, he has done no wrong to you, but he is making progress*-his friends and his neighbors will be envious: "Oh, this man is becoming so successful." So the nature of this world is envious, enviousness. Therefore, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning it is said, nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām: [SB 1.1.2] "This is understandable by persons who are freed from this quality of enviousness." Here is a quality in the material world. Anyone who is here, he will be envious of his... Para utkarṣa asahanam. They cannot tolerate that his friend or his brother is very much, I mean to say, advancing either material or spiritual. They cannot tolerate. This is the society. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "This is not the place for a gentleman to live," because surrounded by envious persons, especially to the devotees. Especially when a man becomes devoted to the Lord, he creates... He does not create, but the atmosphere is such-many enemies.



*Just like Prahlāda Maharaja. He was a five*-years'-old boy only, child. His father became enemy because the only disqualification Prahlāda Mahārāja had, that he was a great devotee. His father became enemy, what to speak of others? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, taror api sahiṣṇunā. You will have many enemies, many envious persons, when you become pure devotee, but you should tolerate. Taror api sahiṣṇunā. Be tolerant just like a tree and be humble just like a grass. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Don't be afraid of our enemies because Kṛṣṇa will protect you, but in order to stop more misunderstanding, better become tolerant, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that... Envious persons, automatically... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, Śrīvāsa. Śrīvāsa was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and his neighborers became enemies. They wanted to insult him in so many ways. These are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So that is natural. But we should always remember that "Let there be enemies. Let there be envious persons. I will be protected by Kṛṣṇa and His associates." And even I am not so accustomed, so I should learn to tolerate.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā...



Kīrtanīyaḥ. If you want to make advancement in the chanting process, then you should be tolerant than the tree and humbler than the grass. And anyone who hasn't got any respect, give him all respect: "Oh, you are so wonderful," and go on with your business, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma..." (chuckles)



That's all. Thank you very much. (Hindi) So any other questions?

Devotee (1): The Viṣṇudūtas, they had spiritual bodies, spiritual forms. Are they traveling through all the planets or only where there are devotees?



Prabhupāda: All the planets. Everywhere there are devotees. You are thinking that only in America there are devotees? (laughter)



*Devotee (1): No, I'm speaking particularly of the four*-armed form described as... Particularly of those.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Viṣṇudūtas are looking exactly like Viṣṇu.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, don't the living entities on Brahmaloka have bodies like Lord Brahmā?



*Prabhupāda: Not exactly. Brahmā is four*-handed.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they don't have...



*Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you said that when a person changes original spiritual form, just like the Viṣṇudūtas, they have their four*-handed form. Does that mean that they will never rise up to the state of associating with Kṛṣṇa in two-handed form? What does it mean, "original form"?



*Prabhupāda: Original form, two*-handed.



*Haṁsadūta: Two*-handed.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Haṁsadūta: So that four*-handed form is not complete perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: No. There is perfection everywhere in the spiritual world, but it is a question of variety, taste. When you take rasagullā, don't take kachori, that does not mean kachori is not perfect. It is a question of taste. Somebody likes kachori, somebody likes rasagullā. Not that kachori is inferior to rasagullā; rasagullā is inferior to kachori.



Haṁsadūta: So that means if someone is situated in that svarūpa...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is svarūpa. Everything is svarūpa.



Haṁsadūta: Suppose someone is situated as Viṣṇudūta. He may change his taste.



Prabhupāda: Why he shall change it?



Haṁsadūta: He may get a taste for associating with Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: The change is taking place in this material world. There all tastes are fixed up, rasa, eternal, eternal rasa. Every one of us has a different taste of associating with Kṛṣṇa, and that will be realized when one is liberated.



Haṁsadūta: So that's fixed already.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. When you are liberated, you will understand in which way you are related with Kṛṣṇa. That is called svarūpa*-siddhi. But that is attained when you are actually perfect in devotional service. Just like in our family, we enjoy different rasas. We have got one kind of relationship with wife, one kind of relationship with sons and daughters, one kind of relation with friends, one kind of relationship with servants, one kind of relationship with property. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa... The whole creation is His family, and He has got relationship in that way. So why the son will change his relationship into husband and wife?



Haṁsadūta: I see.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Because every relationship is very palatable. The gentleman, the head of the family, his relationship with wife and his relationship with servant is as much palatable. Maybe some degradation, but it is palatable. There is no question of changing. Not that "I am tasting this rasa at the present moment. Then I will get better rasas." No, that is not. Everyone thinks, "My rasa is the best." Although there is comparative gradation, but everyone thinks. These things are explained in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Why don't you see?



Haṁsadūta: And *Nectar of Devotion*.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone thinks, "My relationship with Kṛṣṇa is the best."



Haṁsadūta: So it's not a matter of aspiring to some...



Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Even the trees in Vṛndāvana, they want to serve Kṛṣṇa silently in that way, supplying fruits and flowers. That is their ānanda, everyone enjoying the supreme bliss. When Kṛṣṇa comes, takes a flower or fruit, that is their enjoyment: "Oh..."



Revatīnandana: When Kṛṣṇa doesn't come, then they are feeling separation?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. That is another bliss, to feel separation from Kṛṣṇa. Everything, either you meet or you separate, the bliss is there. Crying for Kṛṣṇa is better bliss. So as there are Yamadūtas*-they are arresting all the sinful persons-similarly, Viṣṇudūtas, they are always protecting the devotees. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. Therefore those who are devotees, they are not afraid of anything because they know confidently that "Kṛṣṇa is there." That is one of the items of śaraṇāgati. Surrender means when... Unless one is convinced that "Kṛṣṇa will give me protection," so how he can surrender? There is no question of surrender. Avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa vivaśa-pālana. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said to be firmly convinced: "Then Kṛṣṇa will give me all protection." Therefore surrender is perfect. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyaṁ vivarjanam. Surrender means one should simply accept favorable service to Kṛṣṇa and reject anything which is unfavorable, and then next is avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa viśvasa-pālana: "And to be firmly convinced that 'Kṛṣṇa will give me all protection.' " Therefore, instead of "trying to protect myself," a devotee should always remain dependent on Kṛṣṇa. That is śaraṇāgati. And to consider oneself that "Now I am in the association of Kṛṣṇa," these are different items of śaraṇāgati. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the best contribution to the human society. There is no comparison with this movement, any other welfare activity of the whole world. There is no comparison. Can you suggest any better welfare activities than this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Here is another item which is better than Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" What is that? Who will suggest?



Haṁsadūta: Nobody.



Prabhupāda: No?



Haṁsadūta: No one.



*Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There cannot be. As Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7], similarly... Nanyāt: "There is no better personality or higher personality than Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Similarly, kṛṣṇa*-bhakti also, in the, at the same position, there is no more higher activity than Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Guest (1): Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa*-dūta is same. Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa-dūta is same thing or...?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa*-svabhāva. It is stated there. But the same means, does not mean that Viṣṇu, the associate have forgotten Viṣṇu's position. No. Although everything is there, same, still the Viṣṇudūtas know that "Viṣṇu is master; *we are servant." But there are many instances in higher official circles. Let's say a high*-court. All the justices are of the same caliber, but still, all the other justices accept chief justice. They are considered subordinate. Is it not? Although their position, facilities, all the same, still, the chief justice position and the other judges' position is little different. (pause) You are little bit late. We began at five-thirty. Yes. The class... We began our ārati at five, and after ārati we began class at five-thirty. So along with our temple, we shall have to construct some residential quarters for the students. And the students will remain with us. There will be no charge for their fooding or lodging. They will remain as brahmacārī and go to their schools, colleges. Is that idea all right? Not only students, anyone who will remain with us, there is no charge for boarding and lodging.



Guest (2): Kṛṣṇa consciousness leads to the Supreme.



Prabhupāda: That is the highest perfection.



*Guest (2): That is... When your Divine Grace asked, I told that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the beginning. That leads to Kṛṣṇa*-prema." Then, naturally, Kṛṣṇa-prema should be superior to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Prabhupāda: No superior.



Guest (2): Because that is means, and that is the end.



Prabhupāda: Just like the mango has got a different feature when it is not ripened, and the same mango, when it is ripened, it has got a different feature. That's all. The process is to the ripened stage. It is... But all the same, it is a mango. It's a mango.



Guest (2): That is what I thought of the...



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is no other thing than mango. Bhakti is always there, either in the perfectional stage or in the beginning stage. The same example: mango is mango, but unripened stage, it has got a different feature, and ripened stage has a different feature.



Devotee (2): Paripakur(?).



Prabhupāda: Paripakur.



Devotee (1): But in the ripened stage it is more succulent.



Prabhupāda: Sometimes unripened stage also, it is very palatable. So many are charged(?). (laughter) You see? It is so nice, mango is so nice, either ripened or unripened, it is always good. And that goodness may be tasted by different types of men. But mango is always good. Mango is mango, phala ka rāja, "King of all fruits." So devotional service is king of all processes of God realization. That is its position always, either ripened or unripe. It doesn't matter.



Devotee (1): This mango you can taste both ways, both in the beginning and in the end.



Prabhupāda: That is maybe your taste, but others may... (laughter)



*Devotee (1): I mean if Kṛṣṇa consciousness leads to Kṛṣṇa*-prema, then it must, must be a different enjoyment, superior...



*Prabhupāda: Generally Kṛṣṇa*-prema is the highest stage.



*Guest (2): Is it right to say that Kṛṣṇa*-prema is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: Perfect is always. That is the highest stage. That we cannot relish. Just... All the rasas in relationship with Kṛṣṇa is perfect. But according to different devotees' taste... That I already told. Everyone says, "My relationship with Kṛṣṇa is the best." Everyone thinks. But it is for the outsider to consider that "This stage, conjugal love, this is better than the Kṛṣṇa's relationship with His servants or with the trees and..." That is our calculation. But in the Kṛṣṇa field... That is called Absolute. Every taste is as good than the other. That is oneness, Absolute.



Haṁsadūta: So Prabhupāda, a neophyte devotee, he may think it might be very nice to be Kṛṣṇa's friend, but he may actually be a blade of grass and he'll be fully satisfied when he comes to that stage.



Prabhupāda: No. If he thinks like that, then he should cultivate that knowledge in that way. Yes. That is described in The *Nectar of Devotion* and *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*.



Haṁsadūta: But that may not be his actual position. It may be something else.



*Prabhupāda: No. But when, at the time of devotional service, if such impetuses come, that means he has got such relation. It is to be developed. That's all. That means the actual relationship with Kṛṣṇa is coming out gradually. It is being developed. So one has to develop it, following the footsteps of the Kṛṣṇa's friends in Vṛndāvana. These are described here. Yes. Not directly. No. You cannot say that "I have become Sudāmā." No. You have to follow the footsteps of Sudāmā. "I have become mother Yaśodā." No. You have to follow the footsteps of mother Yaśodā. That is real position. And as soon as you say, "I am Yaśodā. I am Su...," then it is as good as the Māyāvādīs say, "I am God." You see? So dāsa*-dāsānudāsa. That process should be followed.



*Devotee (2): Dāsa*-dāsānudāsa.



Haṁsadūta: Suppose someone is satisfied simply being related with the spiritual master.



Prabhupāda: That is everyone's business. Everyone's business. That is not a particular taste. That is the duty of all devotees.



*Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are like Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa-dūta. You are a devotee of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: I am not Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa-dūta. My Guru Mahārāja is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa...



Revatīnandana: Well, we would say that you were.



*Prabhupāda: No, no, no. My Guru Mahārāja is Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa-dūta. I am simply trying to carry his order. That's all. I am not Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa-dūta.



Revatīnandana: But we have become your followers.



Prabhupāda: That is your duty. Dāsānudāsa. That is the process.



*Revatīnandana: Somebody else might become a follower of a devotee of Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa.



Prabhupāda: It is not that I am directly connected with Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. I am directly connected with my spiritual master, and my business is to carry out his order. That's all. If I can do that well, that is my purpose. That's all.



*Revatīnandana: But if somebody else may become, say, a devotee of Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa, then is it to be understood that he, then, because he has become devotee of a follower of Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, he may come to associate with Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa?



*Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not that. A devotee is not particular follower of Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa, not of Kṛṣṇa. One who is pure devotee, he knows both the line is as perfect. He may be, a spiritual master is devotee of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but his disciple may be a devotee of Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. It does not hamper. It does not matter, because They are the same. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. They are all one. When we say "Kṛṣṇa," He includes everyone-Rāma, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, everyone. So let us... (end)





710211SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.3.18

-

Gorakhpur, February 11, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...rakṣanti tad*-bhaktimataḥ parebhyo mattaś ca martyān atha sarvataś ca [SB 6.3.18]. So invisible Viṣṇudūtas, they are always traveling. Just like Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is all-pervading, He is everywhere, but our present eyes cannot see Him, material eyes. Just like we cannot see even the living entity when he is passing through this body, leaving this body aside, very small. We cannot see. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. By the dint of your..., by the strength of your senses, the present material senses, it is not possible to appreciate śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Beginning from Kṛṣṇa's holy name. (dog barking) (aside:) Where is this dog? No, your dog. Your dog? This is your dog?



Guest: No no no.



*Prabhupāda: Why is barking? So invisible Viṣṇudūtas, they are always everywhere. Just like police constables, Yamadūtas are there, and Viṣṇudūtas are there. Civil guard and the police constables, both are there. So Yamadūtas' business is to arrest the sinful. That is their... Here everyone is sinful. Nobody is free from sin. That is the position of this material world. So Yamadūtas are searching or taking away. Just after leaving this body, one is taken away by Yamadūta to the place of Yamadūta. There is a planet described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So those who are very sinful, they are dragged through hot desert. They cannot... They fall down. Such persons fall down, but still, he is dragged through the desert. These descriptions are there. Sometimes we feel like that. So there is a planet. So sinful persons are arrested and taken to Yamadūtas. Similarly, Viṣṇudūtas are there. Bhūtāni viṣṇoḥ sura-pūjitāni. Sura means demigod. The residents of the higher planets, they also respect, show their obeisances, respectful obeisances, to these assistants of..., Viṣṇudūtas, sura-pūjitāni. Durdarśa-liṅgāni. Durdarśa, very rarely seen. Because the Ajāmila was practically the only case who was taken from the clutches of the Yamadūta. Otherwise there is no need of their coming. But there are still devotees. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: [Bg. 4.9] "After leaving this body they do not come again to take birth in this material world, but they come to Me." So those who are eligible to go back to Godhead, they are taken by Viṣṇudūta as guides. But durdarśa-liṅgāni, they are very rarely to be seen because directly going to Vaikuṇṭha after leaving this body, such persons are also very rare. Durdarśa-liṅgāni mahādbhutāni. Adbhuta, wonderful. Certainly they must be wonderful because they are spiritual body-four hands, with different weapons, just like Viṣṇu.



*So such things are not visible within this material world. Therefore mahādbhutāni, very wonderful. Mahādbhutāni rakṣanti. What is their business? They give protection to the devotees. Rakṣanti tad-bhaktimataḥ parebhyaḥ. Bhaktimataḥ. Those who are engaged in devotional service, they are protected from parebhyaḥ. Parebhyaḥ. means the enemies of the devotees. The devotees of the Lord are always protected by these Viṣṇudūtas, who are almost as powerful as Viṣṇu. And they give protection to the devotees of the Lord, mad-bhaktaḥ, tad-bhaktamataḥ, who are following the principles of devotional service, parebhyaḥ. How they are protected? First they are protected from the hands of the enemies. Because there are many enemies. Don't think that because one has become Kṛṣṇa conscious there will be no enemy. Of course, Kṛṣṇa conscious person is always ajāta-śatru. There cannot be any enemy. There cannot be enemy in this sense*-that no enemy can do any harm to them. Because they are always protected, no enemy can harm to them. Ajāta-śatru. As Kṛṣṇa is ajāta-śatru, no enemy can harm to Him, there are śatrus or enemies of Kṛṣṇa, as you will read from the Kṛṣṇa ... Thousands and thousands of the demons, from the very beginning of His birth there are enemies. When Kṛṣṇa is born... (aside:) Don't meditate. Just hear. These are important things. Kṛṣṇa, as soon as He is born, there is enemy present, Kaṁsa. As soon as He is grown little, two months, three months, there is enemy-Pūtanā, Agha, Baka. So even God, Kṛṣṇa, has got enemies, so why not of the devotees? The devotees' enemy... Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He is enemy of his son, five-years-old son. So you don't think that because one has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no enemy. Don't judge in that way: "Oh, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Why there is enemy? Why somebody criticizes him? Why one finds fault with him? Then he is not kṛṣṇa-bhakta." The enemies will do that. That is enemies' business. Even Kṛṣṇa has enemy; *why not the... Just like Jesus Christ, he had enemies. He was killed by the enemies. Sometimes it so happened. Haridāsa Ṭhākura had enemies. So enemies there will be. Because he has got enemy, therefore it is not that he is kṛṣṇa*-bhakta. He is kṛṣṇa-bhakta, even having his enemies, just like Kṛṣṇa, despite having enemies, is Kṛṣṇa. But the difference is that Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's bhakta will never be defeated by the enemies. That is the distinction. Enemies may have, but he will never be defeated. God or God's devotee cannot be defeated by the enemies. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's declaration will be false. He says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31].

*Here it is also stated that rakṣanti. Rakṣanti. Rakṣanti means protect. What is the business? The rakṣanti. From where? Parebhyaḥ, from the hands of the enemies. Kṛṣṇa is able. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He can protect Himself. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was a child on the lap of His mother, the Pūtanā came to attack by policy to poison the child. But Kṛṣṇa was so able that He agreed to suck the breast of the Pūtanā smeared with poison. But we should not imitate that. Unconsciously, somebody gives poison. That is... Kṛṣṇa protects. But we should not imitate. Kṛṣṇa can eat any amount of poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's greatest devotee, Lord Śiva, he can also drink any amount of poison. But the rascals, fools, they think that "Lord Śiva smokes gāñjā and he can drink the ocean of poison. So let us also try to follow the footsteps of Lord Śiva by smoking gāñjā." They cannot follow the footsteps of Lord Śiva that he is the greatest devotee, always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa. That is not their business, to follow. But they are very much eager to follow the footsteps of Lord Śiva for smoking gāñjā. But they do not know that Śiva, Lord Śiva, can drink an ocean of poison and he can keep it just here. He does not allow it go to the stomach. That is his power. He cannot... He does not allow the poison. Therefore His another name is Nīlakaṇṭha, Nīlakaṇṭha, Nīlakaṇṭha, because he keeps the poison here, kaṇṭha. It is called? Throat. Because he keeps the poison just on the door of the throat, he does not... That is Lord Śiva. Just like there are many fools who try to imitate Kṛṣṇa for performing the rāsa*-līlā with women. But they cannot imitate Kṛṣṇa for killing Pūtanā, Aghāsura, Bakāsura, or lifting the Govardhana. That they do not follow. That is very difficult for them. The rascals, they take easily.

(aside:) So you can go and lie down. Why you are sitting? This is not good. You don't have sufficient sleep from ten to four? Is not sufficient? Why you do like this? Whole day and night, whenever you sit down. What is this? Every one of you more or less. What is the reason?

Yamunā: Inattentive.



Prabhupāda: Inattentive means like this? No. Unless one is tired or had no sufficient sleep, one cannot do like that. Not inattentiveness.



Gurudāsa: Not enough sleep.



*Prabhupāda: Enough sleep. That means you require twenty*-four hours sleep. Out of that, if you sleep for ten hours, that is not sufficient. Your business is to sleep only. So ten hours' or eight hours' sleep is not sufficient. Kumbhakarṇa. Kumbhakarṇa. Just like he was sleeping six months.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hibernation.



*Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Six months. We are also sleeping six months in a year because we sleep, generally, ten to twelve hours. So if you half day, means half year. We are also all Kumbhakarṇas. Anyone who sleeps more than six or seven hours, he is a Kumbhakarṇa. Kumbhakarṇa was the brother of Rāvaṇa. He was sleeping six months, and six months he was awake. That means anyone who sleeps half the, out of twenty*-four hours, anyone, if he sleeps twelve hours, he's a Kumbhakarṇa. So at least I think that one should not sleep more than seven hours utmost. That is sufficient, sufficient, seven hours. So you can sleep six hours at night and one hour to rest in daytime. That is sufficient. But if you sleep more than that, then you are Kumbhakarṇa. You should adjust things. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. That's the Gosvāmins.



*saṅkhyā*-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau

*nidrāhāra*-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-guṇa-smṛter madhurimānandena sammohitau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau **



*So we are followers, Rūpānuga. We are followers of the Gosvāmins. So their behavior, saṅkhyā*-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. The whole time, twenty-four hours, was used in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra regularly on fixed up, big beads. So we have reduced that to sixteen. But they were chanting... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting four times sixty-four. That means... Three times sixty-four. So three times sixty-four means?



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One hundred and ninety*-two.



*Prabhupāda: One hundred and ninety*-two rounds. And we are giving you only for sixteen rounds. We don't ask you to imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. But saṅkhyā-pūrvaka... He would not sleep or he would not eat unless he has finished his 192 rounds. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna... And nāma-gāna and natibhiḥ. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was offering obeisances round the Rādhā-kuṇḍa, whole, that "So many times I shall fall down." He was falling down. Still there are many devotees, they do that. You fall down, daṇḍavat. Then, from the point where your head is touching, you just have a line. Again stand there and fall down. Again stand there and fall down. Huh?



Devotee (1): He would circumambulate?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see how much good exercise it is. Huh? Just like I fall down in this way, flat. Then I make a line. And I stand again in that line; *again fall down. Make a line. Again that line. In this way, round. Tapasya. This is called tapasya, austerity. We should not take very leniently that we are going back to Godhead. Of course, there is so many concession for the... But at the same time, we should be very much aware of the responsibility that we have decided to go back to Godhead after leaving this body, so we have to perform some austerities. The austerity in our Gauḍīya*-sampradāya is very simple: following the four principles, restriction, avoiding the offenses, and chanting regular beads. That's all. And hearing. Chanting and hearing, both things. Not only chanting; *we have to hear Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. In this way we should engage twenty-four hours' business. Hear and chanting... When you speak, when you go to a lecture for preaching, that is also chanting, when you speak. And automatically there is hearing. If you chant, there is hearing also. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23]. There is memorizing also. Unless you memorize all the conclusions of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, you cannot speak. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanam. Arcanam, this is arcanam. Vandanam, offering prayers. Hare Kṛṣṇa is also prayer. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa: "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This Hare Kṛṣṇa is simply prayer. So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam. Always remain engaged as servant, dāsyam. Sakhyam, always think that Kṛṣṇa is your best friend, ātma-nivedanam, and dedicating everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is our process. And we have to be utilized under these processes twenty-four hours. Out of that, because we have got this body, it requires eating, sleeping, mating.



So the arrangement is there. Eating is there; sleeping is there; mating is there; *defending is there*-but not excessively. Nāma-gāna... Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The very word is used, vijita. You should not be conquered by them. Eating, sleeping, mating, defending required, but you should not be conquered by them. You shall conquer them. The māyā is forcing me that "You sleep twenty-four hours." But I have to conquer māyā: "No. I shall not sleep more than seven hours." That is your business. If I ask, if you say, "I don't know," that is not the answer. You have to... And how this māyā can be conquered? That is also said. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] "Anyone who is fully surrendered, he can conquer the māyā." Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura conquered māyā. She came at dead of night, beautifully dressed, very young girl, and offered herself. But he conquered. "Yes, I shall do. I shall enjoy with you. Please sit down. Let me finish my regular chanting process. Then we shall enjoy." So he conquered māyā. Māyā could not conquer.

So these are the instances. And if we fall flat to be conquered by the māyā, then... We have to struggle. This is also another struggle for existence. As the materialists, they are also struggling for existence for a few days or few years only, our struggle is not for few days or few years, but eternally. The same struggle is there. Their process is different, our process is different. So we should be always conscious of our responsibility that... That will help us. We must stay awake. Uttiṣṭhata. Always remain awakened. So regular, seven hours sleep is sufficient. Why it should be more than that? What is the cause? Another cause may be that if we eat more, then sleep more. So in order to reduce the sleeping process, the eating process should be reduced. You can take, make... I..., you fast one day, don't take anything, you will see that there will be less sleep. Is it not? Yes.

Devotee (2): I generally find that the first day of a fast I sleep. Second day I feel a little more...



Prabhupāda: Then you continue fasting?



Devotee (2): Yes. For example, last night I ate very heavily, but this morning, now I'm awake. I'm staying awake.



Prabhupāda: Why you eat heavily?



Devotee (2): I'm saying that incidentally, I ate heavily, and this morning I am not falling asleep.



*Prabhupāda: So anyway, that you have to adjust, all of you, that "How I shall not sleep more than seven hours." Six hours, from ten to four, that is six hours, complete. And one hour during daytime. Then no more sleeping unless you are sick. But why you young boys and girls, why should you fall sick? There is no question of falling sick. You have got your now blood running on. You are not old. Your stomach is working nice. So you should adjust. For a devotee, to reduce this is the process, this āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending, they should be reduced, and come to the point, no sleeping, no eating. That is not possible. But spirit soul, when one... Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. He came to that point, no sleeping, no eating. All the Gosvāmīs, they were not sleeping more than two hours. So why about Gosvāmīs? Even big karmīs, like Subash Bose, Gandhi, they were also not sleeping. I heard that Napoleon Bonaparte, he was not sleeping. He was sleeping... When he was passing from one warfield to another, on his horse he slept. That's all. He never went to the bedroom for sleeping. Gandhi used to do that. He would sleep when he was passing from one station, one... In the motorcar he would sleep. Then again he will begin work.



Devotee (1): Sometimes you sleep only for five minutes. Only for five minutes.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can we do that?



Prabhupāda: Yes. But Gandhi was very regular in his eating. He would take simply a cup of goat's milk and few peanuts and some day one or two cāpāṭis. Otherwise he will not take anything. And some oranges.



Devotee (2): I heard he used to take raw...



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Devotee (2): A root. A particular root which has a...



*Prabhupāda: That is for blood pressure medicine. Blood pressure medicine. That is different thing. But he was eating very little. His secretaries, his grandson and granddaughter-in-law and some other girls, they were assisting. So he would, even in the jail... Government, when imprisoned him, he will take his goat. A great politician*-he would not accept government supplied food. Goat must be milked before him, and the milk is made hot and given to him. He would not allow any other food. Then he will starve. He will fast. So government was obliged to give him whatever he wanted as his food. So Gandhi was not sleeping very much. Even ordinary, Subash Bose, he was not sleeping very much. And Napoleon Bonaparte, he also was not sleeping very much. So there were many instances, even the karmī. That means when one is engaged in some serious business, he sleeps less. When I was in your country and was not attacked by the heart, so at night I was taping, and I was taping still two tapes. Two tapes. Therefore I was able to write so many books. Yes.



So one should be engaged in serious business; *then sleeping will be less. If there is no..., if we become lazy, if we have no sufficient engagement, then sleeping will come. And if no sufficient engagement, but sufficient eating, then the next result is sleeping. So we have to adjust things. We should not sleep more than seven hours. Six hours at night and one hour, that is sufficient. From medical point of view, they say six hours sleeping is sufficient, six hours. So suppose if we sleep seven to eight hours, one hour more, then out of twenty*-four hours we sleep eight hours. Then sixteen hours. And chanting, two hours. Ten hours. And for taking bath and dressing, another two hours. Then eight hours and four hours, twelve hours. So...

Devotee (1): Then eating.



*Prabhupāda: No. I have taken that: two hours for taking bath and eating, and eight hours for sleeping*-ten hours. And two hours for chanting-twelve hours. And still we have got twelve hours for Kṛṣṇa's service. Is there any mistake? Just calculate. Why there should be, "Oh, I work so hard. I have no... Therefore I am sleeping more," to find out an excuse. "I was dysentery." Why you dysentery? Why there should be dysentery unless you eat more? This way, personally we have to adjust things, not that by dictation or by rules and regulations. Personal affairs cannot be adjusted by rules and regulation. It can be adjusted by oneself. And then everything will be all right.



*saṅkhyā*-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau

*nidrāhāra*-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-guṇa-smṛter madhurimānandena sammohitau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau **



*They save time in this way, and rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau, be jolly in the service of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, bhajanānanda. That should be the basis of jolly, jollyness. And this should be adjusted or minimized according to... Our real pleasure should be in bhajanānandena. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena. In this way we have taken very serious job. In this life we want to finish this material existence for good. That should be the responsibility, that "We are going to finish this material existence for good. No more coming." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If you take responsibility in that way, then everything will be adjusted. Serious. My Guru Mahārāja used to say like that, that "Finish this business in this life. Don't delay for the next life." He was telling also that "Don't give me trouble again to come here to deliver you." That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Spiritual master responsibility is to take the disciple to Kṛṣṇa, until he is able to do, to help him, to help him, to help him. That is the verdict of the śāstras. Just like Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. His spiritual master delivered him, taking the shape of a prostitute. So these stories are there.



*We have to take responsibility. The first thing is that we have taken very, very responsible task, to finish this so*-called lording over this material nature. The material life means everyone is trying to lord over the material nature, bhoga. And we cannot do that. That is not possible. Therefore we are in trouble. This very mentality, that "I shall lord it over..." Everyone in the material world... And so long this, "I shall serve Kṛṣṇa, not lord it over..." Just the opposite. This is material mentality: "I shall lord it over." The whole world is struggling. Everyone is thinking, "I will lord it over. I shall be over everyone. My votes shall be the largest number. I shall become..." And our business is not to lord it over but to serve Kṛṣṇa.

*So the Viṣṇudūta... We have to become Viṣṇudūtas. Our preachers are Viṣṇudūtas, just to give protection to any person who is slightly inclined to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is pañcarātra*-vidhi. We shall give all help, all assistance, to such persons. That is our business. It is not sleeping business, it is not lazying business. We should be always active. We shall always make plan, think how to protect this miserable condition of the material... They cannot understand. They are fools. They are rascals. So you have to give them knowledge. You have to give them help. That is missionary activity. Missionary activity is not laziness or sleeping. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that prāṇa āche yāra sei hetu pracāra, that "I have got some dozens of disciples, and I have got a temple, and people are contributing. Now I have got good arrangement for eating and sleeping. Now I am perfect. Because I am getting some food without any work, and honor, then I am perfect." This is not the mentality. Prāṇa āche yāra. You must be engaged continually for these missionary activity. The Gauḍīya Mission has failed in preaching work because they adopted this principle. As soon as they got a little shelter under the name of Maṭha, or temple, and a few dozen of..., not few dozen, one dozen, then he is settled up there. Now he is bhajana, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," showing that he is very great chanter. And what is your preaching? Lord Caitanya ordered you pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi. Why don't you go? How you are Indian?

*Therefore my Guru Mahārāja condemned this policy. Mana tumi kisera vaiṣṇava: "What kind of Vaiṣṇava you are?" Pratiṣṭhāra tare nirjanera ghare: "And simply for cheap popularity, 'Oh, he is a Vaiṣṇava. He is chanting. All right.' " Pratiṣṭhāra tare nirjanera ghare tava hari..., nirjanera ghare. No botheration, because if there is no preaching, there is no botheration. You can sit down and show people, "I have now become a very liberated soul," and chant and meditate. That means sleeping. This sort of business is condemned by my Guru Mahārāja. Pratiṣṭhāra tare nirjanera ghare tava hari*-nāma kevala. This is simply cheating. He did not approve this kind of business. He did not approve. He wanted to see that everyone is engaged in preaching work, some sort of preaching work, either indoor or outdoor. When you are indoor you have to be busy writing articles for a magazine and proofread and so many things indoors. And outdoors you have to go door to door, make them members, make them interested in this movement, collect money for expenses, outdoor. Preaching, you have to meet opposing elements. So many will criticize, so many will attack. Nityānanda Prabhu was hurt personally, but still, outdoor. This is missionary work, not that "Whenever I find some opportunity, go to some solitary place and sleep." This is not missionary life.

So we should adjust things, not that "All right, it is going on. That's all." You have got very responsible business, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is genuine, it is authorized, and Lord Caitanya wants us to do it all over the world. The things should be adjusted and keep us always alive to our self responsibility. That is missionary life, not to give away. (aside:) So it is working?

*So I think we should now... Six*-thirty, yes. You can have kīrtana, another kīrtana. Our business is very responsible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What song do you want us to sing, Prabhupāda? (end)





710212SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.3.18-19

-

Gorakhpur, February 12, 1971



Prabhupāda:



*bhūtāni viṣṇoḥ sura*-pūjitāni

*durdarśa*-liṅgāni mahādbhutāni

*rakṣanti tad*-bhaktimataḥ parebhyo

mattaś ca martyān atha sarvataś ca

[SB 6.3.18]



So the devotees are protected by the Viṣṇudūta always, constantly. They are invisibly wandering all over the universe. We may see or not see because we cannot see spiritual body with these material eyes. So even we do not see, the Viṣṇudūta is always protecting the devotees from the enemies.



As I have explained yesterday, devotees will have enemies. Kṛṣṇa had enemies. This world is such, envious. Ordinarily, they are envious. The whole world is full of enviousness. Even the greatest personalities like Indra, he is also envious. If somebody is undergoing great austerities, thus Indra becomes envious. Just like Viśvāmitra. Viśvāmitra was meditating by the yoga process. Immediately Indra became disturbed: "Oh, this man is practicing so much severe austerities. He may capture my post some day. So this man must be curbed down immediately." Just like in political party, everyone is thinking, "Oh, this man is becoming greater than me. So he should be curbed down; *he should be checked. Otherwise, some day he may occupy my ministership." This is the position of the world. Everyone is envious. So the devotees have enemies. But the Viṣṇudūta protects, as Kṛṣṇa says, that kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31], "My dear Arjuna, you can declare on My behalf that a devotee will never be... A pure devotee..." Always remember*-a pure devotee. Devotee means a pure devotee. Contaminated devotee is different. Dvidha(?)-bhakta and śuddha-bhakta. Those who are contaminated with material desires, with fruitive activities and mental speculation, they are contaminated devotees. They are not pure devotees. Pure devotees means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], no material desires, no action and fruitive activities, no mental speculation. So he is pure devotee. So that pure devotee in transcendental position is always protected by the Lord. And His Viṣṇudūta is wandering everywhere. Just like Ajāmila. As soon as he was arrested by the Yamadūtas, immediately they approached. So as there are different police department, military police department, civil police department, similarly, there is transcendental police department. Don't be afraid. Yes, here it is stated. So simply we have to be sincere devotee, and all protection will be given by Kṛṣṇa.

*So rakṣanti bhakti, tad*-bhaktimataḥ parebhyo mattaś ca. Now, Yamarāja says mattaś ca. Not only from the enemies, but mattaḥ means "my men," the Yamadūtas. Because they were surprised. The Yamadūtas were surprised: "How is that? Some four-handed, very good-looking persons came and checked our duty." So therefore Yamarāja said that "The devotees are protected from the Yamadūtas by the men of Yamarāja." Mattaś ca, martyān atha sarvataś ca. Therefore a devotee has nothing to fear. He is protected from the attack of enemies, from the attack of Yamadūtas. How is that? There are many hundreds and thousands of instances-Prahlāda Mahārāja, Haridāsa Ṭhākura... But don't think that a devotee will not have enemies. A devotee may have anything. Oh, he may be attacked by enemies. He may be attacked with severe type of diseases and so many things. But he will be protected. That is the difference between a devotee and a nondevotee. A nondevotee is neglected. That is stated by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that people may discover so many antibiotics or antiseptics for giving protection, or "anti-" measures, but unless he is given protection by Kṛṣṇa, all those "anti-" devices will not protect, help him. That is certain. Therefore we should take protection only of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise our all protective measures will fail. Rāvaṇa..., when Rāvaṇa was attacked by Rāmacandra... He was a great devotee of Lord Śiva, so he began to pray. Because life and death question, he was praying to Lord Śiva, "Please save me. I have served you so much." Rāvaṇa was so great devotee of Lord Śiva that he sometimes cut his head and offered to Lord Śiva. So... And Śiva was thinking very deeply what to do. And Pārvatī was requesting that "Your, such a great devotee, he is in danger, and he is asking your help, and you are sitting idly? You are doing nothing? How is that?" Lord Śiva replied that "It is not possible to protect him. It is not possible for me." So as a woman, sympathetic, she came out and that "If you cannot protect, then I shall go and protect Rāvaṇa." But she also could not protect. Therefore there is a... It is a verse, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke: "If Kṛṣṇa desires to kill somebody, nobody can protect." And rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke: "And if Kṛṣṇa protects somebody, nobody can kill." This is the process. Mattaś ca martyān atha sarvataś ca.

*Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Now, the Yamadūtas may be in doubt, that "You are Dharmarāja. You are the protector of all religious principles. You are entrusted. So how your business can be interfered by the Viṣṇudūtas?" So Yamarāja is explaining what is real dharma. This is very important. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam. (aside:) You can take sleep over here(?). Don't be inattentive. Better sleep. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means... This is authority. Yamarāja is authority. What is dharma? What is religion? Now, he says*-he is authority-"Dharma means what is enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is dharma." Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ na vai vidur ṛṣayaḥ: "The essence of dharma is not known even to the great sages." Na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ: "Not by the demigods." Now, the authority, Dharmarāja, says that dharma cannot be manufactured by anybody, even great sages or demigods. But nowadays everyone is manufacturing a dharma, and the so-called rascals, they are supporting that "As many opinions there are, all of them are good." Yata mata tata patha. That is the preaching of the Ramakrishna Mission, that "Anyone can manufacture his own. It is personal." Is it not? And I have seen in your country also this, the same opinion he gave, that "Everyone has got his personal religion." And there is the hippies also. They are against any organized religion. These things are going on.

*But here, we see, dharma means... Of course, it is a fact that you cannot make an organized religion by your concoction. So actually those who are religious, they have no difference, opinion, because religion means enacted by God. God is one. So not that God makes one kind of religion for one kind of person and another kind of religion for another person. Real dharma is, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead says, that "Don't manufacture your own religion. Simply surrender unto Me, the one God." That is dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Whatever the Supreme Personality says, "This is dharma," that is dharma. The same example, as I have given: law means which is enacted by the king or the government. You cannot manufacture laws by your whims. That is not possible. No, what to speak of you, here it is said, "Even great sages like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, they cannot also manufacture religion. And what to speak of the ordinary devas?" The Brahmā... Brahmā is the topmost of all the demigods. He cannot also manufacture religion. Nobody can. Here it is stated.

*dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītaṁ

na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ

*na siddha*-mukhyā asurā manuṣyāḥ

*kuto nu vidyādhara*-cāraṇādayaḥ

[SB 6.3.19]



*So when such great personalities... Na siddha*-mukhyāḥ. Siddha-mukhyāḥ means the... There is a Siddhaloka. They are all yogis. They have got all the eight kinds of yogic perfection, Siddhaloka. Therefore they are called siddhas. They have got all the siddhis-bhukti, mukti, siddhi. Siddhi means perfection. So far as material world is concerned, a siddha can have anything he desires. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is called Yogeśvara. By yogic power one can have anything he desires. But that is not possible in this material world, but people try to achieve as far as possible these yogic powers. They are called eight kinds of siddhis, perfection. So there is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. So here it is meant, siddha-mukhyāḥ. Mukhya means the chief of the siddhas. They also cannot manufacture religion. Although they have got all the perfections of material existence, still, they cannot. Now, in this world, just like in Christian religion also... Because in... What is that king? John? He did not like that one man cannot marry more than once. He started the Protestant religion. Is it not?



Devotee (1): King Henry, he did it.



*Prabhupāda: That means because... Or whatever it may be, he thought "Because I am king, I can start a religion." So that is not possible. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītaṁ na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ, na siddha-mukhyā asurā manuṣyāḥ [SB 6.3.19]. (aside:) If somebody dozes, it gives me too much pain. And I asked you to go and sleep. It disturbs me, too much disturbs me. I tell you frankly. When I speak or when I speak if somebody dozes, better not to sit. Sleep twenty-four hours, but don't make show like that: "I am sitting here and dozing." This is very much disturbing to me. Better frankly sleep. Why this should be? I do not know. What is the reason? You don't have full sleep? And if you don't have sleep, then extend. You make it eight o'clock. But sleep sufficiently. If six hours', seven hours' sleep is not sufficient, sleep thirteen hours, fourteen hours. But don't make dozing like this.



*So Yamarāja says, "My dear boys, that..." (reads commentary:) Tam eva dharmam ity aha etavani na ca pramāṇaṁ vaktavyam drstatyady aha nama-sarana iti yenaiva kevalayam sakrd ity aditena.(?) So Yamarāja says that "Nobody can manufacture, even the great sages or demigods, or the chief of the siddhas, who have attained all kinds of perfections, and what to speak of others?" This is very important verse, that any manufactured religion, that is not religion. That is not... The principle of religion is our relationship with God. In any religion where is no such conception, that is not religion. This is bhāgavata-dharma, direct relationship with Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Personality. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is specially teaching this, I mean to say, fact, direct relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Na siddha-mukhyā asurāḥ, asurā manuṣyāḥ. Asurāḥ means they are also very powerful, but almost atheists. Just like in the modern world there are many powerful men and materially advanced, many powerful men. But because they are godless-they have no sense of God*-they are called asuras. The example is Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. And manuṣyāḥ, manuṣyāḥ, ordinary men. So everyone is described here, that nobody can. You cannot say, "If the asuras cannot, then the demigods can, or the human society can, or the siddhas can." No. Everybody is denied, that "Nobody can manufacture the principles of religion." Kuto nu vidyādhara-cāraṇādayaḥ. There is a planet which is inhabited by the Vidyādharas and Cāraṇas. They are very expert in singing. Vidyādhara-cāraṇādayaḥ.

*Then he says... Then who knows the secret of religion? He describes: svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Just like there are entrusted bodies in every department, in every state, similarly, Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He has got also several very faithful or confidential, confidential authorities who can speak about religion. Therefore paramparā system is so necessary, disciplic succession. Kṛṣṇa has got direct confidential servants. They know what is religion. Therefore it is said, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If we are puzzled about the principles of religion, then we must follow the mahājanas. Mahājana. These mahājanas are described here. Who is mahājana? Svayambhū. Svayambhū means Brahmā. Svayambhū. He is called Svayambhū. Svayambhū means "one who is born by himself." Of course, he is not born by himself, but he is not ordinarily born. Just like a child is born by the sex intercourse of the father and the mother, Brahmā is not born like that. There was no sex intercourse to beget Brahmā. Therefore he is called Svayambhū. Svayambhū. Automatically he has come out. He has come out from the father without the help of the mother. Therefore he is called Svayambhū. You know that there was a lotus flower from the navel of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and within that lotus flower, Brahmā appeared. Therefore he is called Svayambhū. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Svayambhū and next, Nārada. Nārada is mahājana. Svayambhū is mahājana. Śambhu, Lord Śiva, is mahājana. Kumāra, the four Kumāras, Sanaka, Sanātana, they are also mahājanas. And these four, they have got their disciplic succession: from Brahmā, the Brahma*-sampradāya; *from Śambhu, Viṣṇu Svāmī*-sampradāya; *from Lakṣmī, Śrī*-sampradāya; *and from Kumāra, this Nimbārka*-sampradāya. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ. Unless one who comes through the sampradāya, their principles are not authorized. And Kṛṣṇa also says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Paramparā, sampradāya. Kṛṣṇa also says. So this is very important. Unless one comes to the disciplic succession, anything he prescribes, that is null and void. It is not to be accepted. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ prahlādaḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Prahlāda, Mahārāja Prahlāda, he is also.

So how they have become mahājana, that is also described. Mahājana means one who can sacrifice everything for the sake of the Supreme Lord. Prahlāda Mahārāja, he personally saw that the father is killed before him. But from material point of view, this is the most abominable, I mean to say, incident, that a son is seeing that his father is being killed before him without any protest. Similarly, Bali Mahārāja, he gave up the connection of his spiritual master. To give up the connection with spiritual master, that is also most abominable. So these people became mahājanas because as soon as they saw that "My father or my spiritual master is against the Supreme Personality of Godhead, such person immediately should be given up." Jīva Gosvāmī says... In Indian, according to Indian custom, there is a family spiritual master, family priest, family spiritual master. So Jīva Gosvāmī says that for advancement of spiritual life, one should give up the family spiritual master if he is not competent and accept actually a bona fide spiritual master. Because people are under impression that... Impression... It is a fact that one cannot give up the connection of the spiritual master. That is a great sin. But Jīva Gosvāmī says that if your family spiritual master does not help you in your matter of making progress in spiritual life, then you should give up his connection and accept a bona fide spiritual master. That is their direction. Gurur apy avaliptasya kāryākāryam ajānataḥ, parityāgo vidhīyate: "If a spiritual master is not competent to help the disciple to make progress nicely, or if he goes against..."

Just like spiritual master of Bali Mahārāja, he tried to advise his disciple Bali Mahārāja not to give to Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu, as Vāmanadeva, came to ask some alms from the Bali Mahārāja, "Give Me some alms. I want three feet of land." And Śukrācārya prohibited: "He is Viṣṇu. He is asking you three feet of land, but He will take everything from you." So in this way, he was against this charity. And when Bali Mahārāja understood that "For his personal interest, he is going against Viṣṇu," he immediately gave up his connection. Similarly, the gopīs also, they flaunted the social law. At midnight they left their husbands and home and came to Kṛṣṇa. There are so many instances. For Kṛṣṇa's sake they sacrificed everything. They became, I mean to say, social outcaste. They transgressed the laws of the *Vedas*. But because they did it for Kṛṣṇa, they have been accepted as mahājanas, as authorities.

So prahlādo janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakir vayam. These are twelve mahājanas. Just remember. The first one is Lord Brahmā, the second is Nārada, the third is Lord Śiva, and the fourth, the Kumāras, and the five, Kapila, and then Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha [Bg. 4.1]. This Manu, he is also mahājana. This, this time is going on, Vaivasvata Manu. Vivasvān manave prāha. Manu is also mahājana, Prahlāda Mahārāja, and Janaka, Janaka Mahārāja, the father of mother Sītā, he is also mahājana. And Bhīṣma. Bhīṣma, the grandfather Bhīṣma, he is also mahājana. Therefore Bhīṣma's instruction in the Bhāgavata should be taken seriously. And on his deathbed, he instructed Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, and Kṛṣṇa also heard. So these are mahājanas. Bhīṣmo baliḥ, Bali Mahārāja. Vaiyāsaki, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the son of Vyāsadeva, he is mahājana. And vayam. Vayam means Yamarāja himself. He says, "We are also."

*Then he says, guhyaṁ viśuddhaṁ durbodhaṁ yaṁ jñātvā amṛtam aśnute. Dvādaśaite vijānīmo dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ: "My dear boys, these twelve men..." Dvādaśa. Two and ten, dvādaśa. Dvādaśaite vijānīmaḥ: "We know what are the principles of dharma. We know, we twelve personalities, authorities." Dharmaṁ bhāgavatam. Dharmam means bhāgavata*-dharma, the relationship with God and the living entity. That is dharma. Bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ, guhyaṁ viśuddham: "This is very confidential and without any material contamination," durbodham, "and very difficult to understand, the principles of religion, very difficult." They are reading Bhagavad-gītā so many years together, but when the question comes that "Surrender unto Me," they cannot understand. Durbodham: "It is very difficult to understand." Durbodhaṁ yaṁ jñātvā: "But fortunately, if anyone understands, jñātvā..." Jñātvā means "If one understands," amṛtam aśnute, "he can drink the nectarine." If actually one understands the religious principle, he becomes, I mean to say, free from all material contamination. Amṛtam aśnute: "He is a fit candidate to drink the nectar of devotion." Amṛtam aśnute. Etāvān eva loke 'smin puṁsāṁ dharmaḥ paraḥ smṛtaḥ. Now, what is the best principle of executing dharma, religion? So he says, etāvān eva loke 'smin: "Especially in this material world," puṁsāṁ dharmaḥ paraḥ smṛtaḥ, "this is the first-class religious principle." What is that? Bhakti-yogo bhagavati: "Of rendering devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That is first-class religion. Bhakti-yogo bhagavati tan-nāma-grahaṇādibhiḥ. Tan-nāma. And how it begins? "Simply by chanting His holy name." These are the authoritative statements of Yamarāja. Tam eva dharmam etāvān iti. This is dharma.

*So our movement, the chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, that is authorized. Here it is stated, tan*-nāma-grahaṇādibhiḥ. And you have seen that our..., in Back to Godhead, Hayagrīva has also quoted many passages from Bible, the chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting. So this chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, or God, is authorized. And actually the effect is being felt, because we are advised to execute this kind of religious principles according to the law, offenseless, and avoiding these four regulative principles. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and observing these rules and regulations, one is sure to go to home, go to back to Godhead. There is no doubt about it.

*nāmoccāraṇa*-māhātmyaṁ

hareḥ paśyata putrakāḥ

ajāmilo 'pi yenaiva

*mṛtyu*-pāśād amucyata



*Then he says the assistants, "My dear boys, just see how much powerful is the chanting of the holy name of God is that this Ajāmila, he did not directly mean to chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, but indirectly, because he chanted the name of Nārāyaṇa, although this Nārāyaṇa was not the original Nārāyaṇa, his son, but it is so effective that he also became delivered." Nāmoccāraṇa*-māhātmyaṁ hareḥ paśyata putrakāḥ, ajāmilo 'pi yenaiva mṛtyu-pāśāt: "He was saved from the imminent danger of death and being carried away by the Yamadūtas." I think we have covered. Na tatra pramāṇaṁ vaktavyam:(?) "How powerful is the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, or God, there is no need of evidences. Just see practically how it is being done." And Śrīdhara Svāmī says that na tatra pramāṇam vaktavyaṁ dṛṣṭaḥ syād ity āha nāmoccāraṇeti yenaiva kevalena sakṛd uccaritena.(?) Once he uttered, simply, "Nārāyaṇa..." That's a fact. Once uttered, the holy name of God, without any offense, without any motive, immediately makes one free from this material world.



Any question?

Devotee (1): Does one have to be a pure devotee to be a...? The twelve authorities, are they all pure devotees?



Prabhupāda: Why do you ask this question? You have no sense. Without pure devotee, how they became authority? You are ask the question, "Is Mr. Rockefeller a rich man?" Your question is like that. He is known a very rich man, and he has foundation. If you ask, "Is he a rich man?" is that very intelligent question? Unless pure devotee, how they are authorized?



Devotee (1): What I was wondering about was the four Kumāras were... And I wanted to ask about Lord Kapila.



Prabhupāda: Kapilo manuḥ.



Devotee (1): They weren't pure devotees right from..., they weren't devotees right from the first. The *Nectar of Devotion* says that the four Kumāras were first situated in the...



Prabhupāda: Right from the... What do you mean by "right from the first"? What do you mean by that? Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī was a minister of Muhammadan government. So what is his position? He was minister, he was working under government service, and he was rejected by the brāhmaṇa community. Then how he became gosvāmī?



Devotee (1): From the beginning of their...



*Prabhupāda: Beginning... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a magistrate. What do you mean by "beginning"? As soon as he is situated in his own original position, then he is pure devotee. That's all. It doesn't matter what he has done in the past. It is called nagna*-mati. Nagna-mati.(?) One's mother was naked in her childhood. So one is asking, "Mother, why you are putting on those saris? You were naked. You can remain naked." This kind of argument is no argument. Whatever one may be in his past, that's all right. As soon as he is situated in pure devotee, devotional state, that's all. One hasn't got to inquire, "from the beginning" or "from the end." There is no need of such inquiry. As soon as he is situated in his original position, hitvā anyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6], gives up nondevotional activities, but is situated in devotional service, immediately he is all right, pure devotee. Doesn't matter whether he was in the beginning. Because even a person, ordinary person, ordinarily, he is not contaminated. He lives aloof from this material existence. But for sometimes, even if he is influenced, that doesn't matter. As soon as he comes to his real position, he is a pure devotee. There is no question of tracing his past history. There is no question. You be situated in pure devotional service; *you are pure devotee. That's all. There is no question of inquiring what he was in the past. That doesn't matter. Is it clear? Yes. Just like Ajāmila. In the past history he, simply sinful, Jagāi*-Mādhāi, simply sinful, but as soon as they come to the position of pure devotional life, he is pure. That's all. Yes.



Yamunā: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Kumāra*-sampradāya, yes. Kumāra-sampradāya. That is called Nimbārka-sampradāya. Nimbārka. N-i-m-b-a-r-k-a. Nimbārka-sampradāya.



Yamunā: And Janaka, isn't he...?



Prabhupāda: Janaka. Janaka Mahārāja. Yes. King Janaka. He's the father of Sītā, Janaka Mahārāja. He was a great king, but he had no attachment. Even great sages used to go to learn from him about spiritual affairs. He was so..., such a great personality, although he was a king and gṛhastha. All of them were gṛhasthas. Lord Svayambhū, Brahmā, he is also gṛhastha. Nārada is brahmacārī. Śambhu, he is also gṛhastha; he has his wife. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ [SB 6.3.20], he is also gṛhastha. Kumāraḥ, they are brahmacārīs. And Manu, he is also gṛhastha, Prahlāda Mahārāja, gṛhastha; Janaka, gṛhastha; Bhīṣma, brahmacārī; and Yamarāja, a gṛhastha. So the number of gṛhasthas are greater than the brahmacārīs, but they are mahājanas. It doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or brahmacārī. Just like we are practically following. We are giving equal rights to everyone. Either gṛhastha or brahmacārī or sannyāsī, the main center is Kṛṣṇa. One who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is all right. It doesn't matter what he is. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's recommendation.



kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



Anyone who is conversant, well conversant in the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. He is mahājana. He is following actually the mahājanas.



Revatīnandana: In the *Bhāgavatam* and also in the *Teachings of Lord Caitanya* you talk about the oṁkāra and tat tvam asi vibration. Now, the impersonalists improperly emphasize tat tvam asi over the original oṁkāra. I was wondering what are the significance of these two vibrations and what is their relationship to Kṛṣṇa? What is tat tvam asi?



Prabhupāda: Oṁkāra is Kṛṣṇa also. Kṛṣṇa is everything. Why not oṁkāra? So tat tvam asi means "You are the same." Tat tvam asi. That means you are spirit soul. So what is the objection? And for every Vedic mantra, the oṁkāra is there. Praṇāma. Every Vedic mantra. Just like we also chant oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramam. Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyam. So every Vedic mantra is preceded by the oṁkāra.



So who is going to mop these two rooms? The ladies (indistinct). It is the ladies' business. Ladies' business. First after this, cleansing (indistinct). Then get some flowers, change dress. This is the procedure. And then offer breakfast. In this way. (end)



710214SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.3.20-23

-

Gorakhpur, February 14, 1971



Prabhupāda:



svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



Twelve mahājanas, authorities, we have discussed yesterday morning.



dvādaśaite vijānīmo

dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ

guhyaṁ viśuddhaṁ durbodhaṁ

yaṁ jñātvāmṛtam aśnute

[SB 6.3.21]



So the science of Kṛṣṇa is very difficult to understand. Durbodham. Durbodham. Durbodham means very, very difficult to understand. Therefore you have to approach the mahājanas. People, they try to understand which is impossible to understand by their own effort. That is a great mistake. Therefore this very word is used, durbodham. What is religion and what is God, that is very, very difficult to understand. The Vedic injunction is, in order to understand, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master, durbodham. Guhyaṁ viśuddham. Why durbodham? Why it is very difficult to understand? Because it is transcendental, viśuddham, beyond the range of this material atmosphere. Our knowledge is... We get knowledge after creation of this body; therefore all knowledge is material. We tax our brain, which is a material production only. So there is no possibility of understanding religion or God by taxing the material membrane. What is called?



Haṁsadūta: Membrane.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible. But those who are grossly materialistic, those who do not know that beyond this materialistic body there is the soul, they cannot understand, for them, this yogic principle is recommended, to exercise this body. As if by exercising the body he will understand God and understand religion.



*Therefore the yoga system is not recommended for the first-class men. First-class men, they know that by gymnastic process of exercising the material senses, one cannot understand God or religion. Viśuddham. It is beyond. Therefore another name of Kṛṣṇa, or God, is Adhokṣaja. Adhaḥ. Adhaḥ means falls down, and akṣaja, akṣaja means... Akṣa means direct experience, direct seeing, direct touching. And ja means born. Knowledge born of direct perception of the senses*-this is called akṣaja. And adhaḥ means where akṣaja, the direct perception of material senses, is cut down. (curbed?) There is no possibility. He is called adhokṣaja. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa's another name is Adhokṣaja, "beyond the sense perception knowledge." Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ. We cannot understand God or religion by our mental speculation even by the speed of mind, manasa. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara. And the speculation continues by, continues to hundreds and hundreds of years. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara. Śata means hundred, and koṭi means ten million. So ten million into hundred-unlimited time. If you go on speculating, by speculation, panthās tu koṭi, still, your conception of God or religion will remain incomplete. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi [Bs. 5.34]. By airplane, with the speed of the mind... There are different airplanes, and they have got different speeds. Now, if you manufacture an airplane which runs with the speed of the mind... You know the speed of the mind. Within a second, you can travel millions of miles. So an airplane running on, on that speed, and thinking for millions of years, still, you cannot approach the abode of Kṛṣṇa or understand Kṛṣṇa. Only you can understand by His mercy. Only by the mercy of... Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Just like Kṛṣṇa is voluntarily offering Arjuna to understand Bhagavad-gītā. He's not going to canvass anyone. "Arjuna, you understand it. You'll be able to understand because you are My devotee."

*So for a devotee only, the door of God is open. For others, there is no possibility. Therefore, He's called durbodham. Durbodhaṁ yaṁ jñātvā. But somehow or other, if he can understand the principles of religion and God, then immediately he becomes immortal. Immortal means he's no more going to accept any material body. That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*Anyone who can understand in truth, not ephemerally, substantially, if one understands what is Kṛṣṇa, how He appears, what are His activities, what is our relation*-these things, when one understands, immediately he becomes liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma [Bg. 4.9]. Such person, giving up this body, no more comes into this material world. The same thing is herein: jñātvā. If one can understand what is religion and what is Kṛṣṇa, only by this understanding, jñātvā amṛtam aśnute. Amṛtam. Mṛtam means death. A means "none," "not," negation. So amṛtam aśnute: he drinks nectarine. The word nectarine, sudhā. You know there was fight between the demons and the demigods, who will drink the amṛta, the nectarine. Because by drinking nectarine one becomes immortal. So here it is said, amṛtam aśnute. As by drinking nectarine, one can become immortal, similarly, by drinking the nectarine of devotion, one becomes immortal. Therefore we have named the book Nectar of Devotion. You drink it and become immortal. That's all. Amṛtam aśnute.



etāvān eva loke 'smin

puṁsāṁ dharmaḥ paraḥ smṛtaḥ

*bhakti*-yogo bhagavati

*tan*-nāma-grahaṇādibhiḥ

[SB 6.3.22]



*So dharma, this religion, so although it is very difficult to understand, still, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, it has been made very simple and easy. Unfortunately, people have no faith. They do not believe. They think something cumberous, something speculative, something very difficult is the process of executing religion. No. Yamarāja says that etāvān eva loke 'smin puṁsāṁ dharmaḥ paraḥ smṛtaḥ: "The highest principle of religion is this." What is that? Bhakti*-yogaḥ bhagavati. Bhakti-yoga. One may... Just like some people, some foolish say, "Bhakti-yoga... I have got very much devotion to Goddess Kālī, to Goddess Durgā, or so many demigods. This is also bhakti." No. Bhakti-yoga means bhagavati. Love means love of Godhead. Otherwise, there is no love-only lust. Similarly, bhakti means, when this word used, bhakti-yoga, that is only in relationship with the bhakta, or devotee, and Bhagavān. That is called bhakti-yoga. Nāma, harer nāma, not that any name. Harer nāma harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Any name can be applied to Kṛṣṇa indirectly, but directly... We are concerned directly. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. We have to cultivate Kṛṣṇa not indirectly. Indirectly, everything is worshiping Kṛṣṇa, because there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa, he was thinking of Kṛṣṇa indirectly as enemy. Therefore, that is not bhakti. Bhakti means Kṛṣṇa consciousness favorably, directly.



*So if somebody says, "If everything is Bhagavān, why not worshiping the Goddess Kālī and Durgā becomes bhakti?" No. That is not. Here it is distinctly stated, bhakti*-yogaḥ bhagavati. Bhakti-yogaḥ bhagavati. And that bhakti-yoga, how it begins? Tan-nāma-grahaṇādibhiḥ. Tan-nāma, His name, His holy name, grahaṇa, chanting. The method is very simple. Tan-nāma-grahaṇa-ādibhiḥ. Ādibhiḥ means beginning is chanting. There are other processes. Chanting, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam... [SB 7.5.23]. There are different processes, but the beginning is chanting and hearing. Tan-nāma-grahaṇādibhiḥ. Nāma-grahaṇa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, nāma saya sari tako apana karya.(?) So this, our process, first of all, we give the chanting process. Sixteen rounds. That whole process of bhakti-yoga begins from that point. And the more you become experienced and more you relish the chanting, the more you become advanced. Other things will automatically come and make you perfect. Tan-nāma. Therefore we should be very much, I mean to say, strict in the principle of following the regulative principles and avoiding offenses and chant the mantra faithfully. That is the beginning of religion, and that is the beginning of liberation. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu blesses that ihā haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomāra. If you chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa in faith and according to rules and regulations... Even rules and regulation fails, but chanting may not be stopped. Even sometimes we fail. There is possibility of failing, because we are conditioned, and there is every chance of falling down. So despite you are fallen down, still, you should go on chanting.

*This verse Nārada Muni's instruction, we were discussing the last meeting. Tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17]. One has taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness cult and is chanting as far as possible, but there is possibility, because one is not mature, there are so many attraction of māyā, he may fall down. But Nārada Muni says, "Still, he is not in loss." It is so powerful. "Still he is in gain. And one who does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if he is following the religious principles... Everyone has got some religion. Still, what does he gain? He does not gain anything." That is the verdict of Nārada Muni. A person who has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, giving up his all religious principles and occupations, even he falls down on account of his immature position, he is much gainer than the person who is sticking to his religious principle, so-called religious principle, but does not know what Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He does not gain anything. That is the verdict of Nārada Muni.

nāmoccāraṇa māhātmyaṁ

hareḥ paśyata putrakāḥ

ajāmilo 'pi yenaiva

*mṛtyu*-pāśād amucyata

[SB 6.3.23]



So the evidence is that Ajāmila, simply by his chanting "Nārāyaṇa," he became saved from imminent danger, being arrested by the Yamadūtas, or death.



*etāvatālam agha*-nirharaṇāya puṁsāṁ

*saṅkīrtanaṁ bhagavato guṇa*-karma-nāmnām

vikruśya putram aghavān yad ajāmilo 'pi

nārāyaṇeti mriyamāṇa iyāya muktim

[SB 6.3.24]



*This is the conclusion, that etāvatālam agha*-nirharaṇāya puṁsāṁ saṅkīrtanaṁ bhagavato guṇa-karma-nāmnām. Therefore Yamarāja is recommending that by our fruitive activities we are implicated in so many sinful reaction of life, so saṅkīrtanaṁ bhagavato guṇa-karma-nāmnām. Not only the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is called saṅkīrtana of the holy name of the Lord, but here it is said, guṇa-karma-nāmnām. Saṅkīrtanaṁ bhagavato guṇa-karma-nāmnām. Not that when you read Kṛṣṇa, the book which is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities... That is also saṅkīrtana. That is also saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtana does not mean simply chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. Saṅkīrtana means you discuss Kṛṣṇa's activities, that is also saṅkīrtana. That is not different from saṅkīrtana. It is clearly stated here that bhagavato guṇa-karma-nāmnām. Nāma means name, and guṇa means quality, and karma means activities. That is not ordinary karma. Just like when we read Kṛṣṇa book, Kṛṣṇa is killing so many demons, He is kidnapping somebody, He is... So many things. It appears just like ordinary, I mean to say, malpractices in the material world. It appears like that. "So what is this God? He is killing so many persons, He is kidnapping some woman. What is this God?" they may say. But they do not know that that is also transcendental. That is as pure as chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It is as pure as. Otherwise, what interest we have got to read Bhagavad-gītā? It is in the battlefield. Senayor ubhayor madhye. Combination of two parties, soldiers, and they are fighting, they are killing.



*Therefore those who are sahajiyās, they simply go to the pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs. Other things, "Oh, no, no. That is not Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. That is not Kṛṣṇa's pastimes." That is, they differentiate the absolute activities of the Absolute. That is called sahajiyā. The sahajiyās will never read Bhagavad*-gītā, will never read. (sarcastic:) Because they have been elevated to the mellows of conjugal love. Therefore they have no interest in Bhagavad-gītā. They say... Or when you discuss Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam on the philosophical point, janmādy asya [SB 1.1.1], they also do not attend. If you discuss on the philosophy of Upaniṣad and Vedānta, they'll not attend. I have seen it. In Rādhā-kuṇḍa, sometime in 1934, my Guru Mahārāja was living, and he was discussing Upaniṣad. He was discussing Upaniṣad regularly. And the bābājīs... There are many bābājīs in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. First of all, they came, that "Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura has come, such a learned scholar and the establisher of Gauḍīya Maṭha." So out of curiosity they came. And when they saw that he was discussing Upaniṣad, gradually they stopped coming. So my Guru Mahārāja recommended that "These people are not living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. They are living in Nāraka-kuṇḍa." I have heard it personally.

*So those persons distinguish. Just like Bhīṣma. Bhīṣma is stated here as one of the authority, mahājanas. But what did he do? He fought against Kṛṣṇa and pierced with his arrows. You know, in the... We have stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Kṛṣṇa became so much disturbed that... Not disturbed. That is also another... He's pleased. He became pleased, rather. Being pierced by the arrows of Bhīṣma, He became pleased. That I have described in my translation. So being pleased, He came before him. He came before him as if angry, but not... He was so pleased, that "You wanted to break My promise. I have broken it! Please save Arjuna; that is My request to you.' " He promised that "Now tomorrow I shall fight in such a way that either Kṛṣṇa has to break His promise, either, or His most intimate friend, beloved friend, Arjuna, will be killed." So this person is determining to kill Kṛṣṇa's friend, most intimate friend, and he's a mahājana. Just try to understand. Bhīṣma is accepted here as mahājana, as authority. And what was his business? He wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Just try to understand. Therefore, we have to follow only the instruction of mahājana; *otherwise, we'll be bewildered. Vaiṣṇave kriyā mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya [Cc. Madhya 23.39]. We cannot understand what are the activities of Kṛṣṇa and His devotees. We have to simply follow their instruction. That's all. The sahajiyās, they do not follow the instruction. They imitate only: "Kṛṣṇa has made rāsa*-līlā; *so why not we also make rāsa*-līlā?" It is going on, regularly.

*So etāvatālam agha*-nirharaṇāya puṁsāṁ saṅkīrtanam [SB 6.3.24]. If you actually want to become free from the contamination of this material world, then you should always be engaged in chanting, saṅkīrtanam. Not only the holy name, but reading the Kṛṣṇa book, The Nectar of Devotion, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. If you feel tired chanting, you read these books. Sometimes there is psychology, transfer. You are reading some book, you want to read another book. So we have got so many books. If you feel tired this book, then transfer your attention to another book, or another book, or chant. Find out. Simply, not to waste a single moment. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says sadā. Sadā means always. So we have got materials for engaging ourself always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that we have got only this one item. No. We have got so many items. That is also accepted.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*In whatever activities you are engaged... My Guru Mahārāja condemns the... Mana tumi kisera vaiṣṇava, pratiṣṭhāra tare nirjanera ghare, tara hari*-nāma kevala kaitava, He says that in a corner, in a secluded place, you are chanting in a cheating process for cheap adoration. Why? Because he knows that those who are neophytes, if they imitate the chanting, they simply waste their time. Therefore, he should be engaged in other activities because he has got the power at the present moment, karma... Karma means activities. This whole world is full of activities. Therefore this karma should be changed into bhakti, in devotional service. He..., one must be engaged in that... It appears like karma, but it is not karma. It is bhakti. Here also... Just like Kṛṣṇa is doing something. That is not karma. That is transcendental. Similarly, a devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for service of Kṛṣṇa, if he is engaged which looks superficially as karma, that is not karma. That is bhakti.



*The sahajiyās, they do not know it. They think that "We shall sit in a secluded place and chant, imitating Haridāsa." We have seen it. Their imitation is useless. They fall down. Therefore, they must be always engaged in some activities. Otherwise, he'll be attracted by the modes of ignorance and passion. Etāvatālam agha*-nirharaṇāya. Agha means the reaction of sinful activities. Every one of us, anyone who is in this material world, he is sinful. Without being sinful, nobody is here in this material world. If he's not sinful, then he'll be immediately transferred. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Immediately transferred to the spiritual world. He has... Just like a person who has finished his criminal punishment, immediately he is released from the prison. Similarly, a person who is freed from the resultant action of sinful activities, he immediately becomes liberated. Therefore anyone who is in this material world engaged in fruitive activities... Not the devotees. That is another mistake. The devotees are also here, but they are always in Vaikuṇṭha. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. So anyway, the general process is that instead of, I mean to say, following the religious rituals for diminishing or getting out of the sinful reaction, one is recommended to accept bhakti-yoga, beginning with the chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. That is the conclusion.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





710218SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.3.25-26

-

Gorakhpur, February 18, 1971



Prabhupāda:



prāyeṇa veda tad idaṁ na mahājano 'yaṁ

*devyā vimohita*-matir bata māyayālam

*trayyāṁ jaḍī*-kṛta-matir madhu-puṣpitāyāṁ

vaitānike mahati karmaṇi yujyamānaḥ

[SB 6.3.25]



*So Śrīdhara Svāmī says, "As a physician without knowing the presence of mṛta*-sañjīvanī..." In Ayurvedic medicine system there is a medicine which is called mṛta-sañjīvanī. Mṛta-sañjīvanī. Mṛta means death, and sañjīvanī means giving life. Even a dead man can get life by drinking that medicine. It is a strong tonic. It is still used in Ayurvedic medicine, and some of the biggest manufacturer of Ayurvedic medicine, they prepare, and it has a good sale. So it may not be exactly the same mṛta-sañjīvanī, but it is very well known. So Śrīdhara Svāmī says... Just like one, a person, is suffering from fever, so according to Ayurvedic medicine, tri-kaṭu... Tri means three, and kaṭu means bitter. Tri-kaṭu, just like nim, nim fruits, kālamegha and ciratā. They are prescribed, very bitter to eat. So Śrīdhara Svāmī gives this example: "Without knowing that there is a very nice medicine, mṛta-sañjīvanī, they takes so many troublesome medicines. Similarly, the great stalwart leaders of religious principles, without knowing this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, they take to so many troublesome, multiritualistic ceremonies."



*Viṁśati*-prakāra-dharma-śāstrāḥ. There are twenty kinds of dharma-śāstra composed by Manu, Parāśara and others. They are very difficult. All of them are meant for counteracting our sinful life. This, as we have explained, material life is so arranged that even you do not like to commit some sin, in course of your life there will be sinful reaction. Just like we sing the prayers of Viśvanātha Cakravartī, saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. This world is so situated that there is a blazing fire always in this material world. Even if you do not want, still, that fire is there. Nobody wants blazing fire, dāvānala. Dāvānala means forest fire. Nobody goes to set fire in the forest, but it takes place. Similarly, this material world is also like that. Nobody wants, but still, miserable condition of life come in. Just like in Calcutta, nobody wanted the Naxalite disturbance, but it has come. There are so many troubles. And why this happens? Because their unconscious activities of sinful life... Just like we are walking on the street. Unconsciously, we are killing so many small ants and insects, unconsciously. I do not wish to kill, but we are, having situated, we are, being situated in material condition of life, we are unconsciously killing so many living entities. Therefore, according to the Vedic rites, the injunction is that one has to perform yajñas, sacrifices. And without that sacrifice you'll be liable to be punishment for that unconscious killing of small animals. As such, those who are actually fearful of a sinful reaction of life, they perform yajñas. But here it is said that the mahājanas, the great leaders of religions, without knowing his simple method of getting out of sinful life, they take to so many yajñas prescribed in the Vedas. Prāyeṇa veda tad idaṁ na mahājano 'yaṁ devyā vimohita-matir bata māyayālam: "Practically they were also bewildered by the influence of māyā." They do not know that there is such a medicine. The example is given, mṛta-sañjīvanī. But they take to bitter medical drugs like nim, ciratā and kālamegha. That is explained by Śrīdhara Svāmī. Mṛta-saṁyamani viṣam ajānanta auṣadham ajānanta vaidya roga-nirharaṇāya tri-kaṭu nimva dini smaran, tatha svayambhūḥ sanmukha-pramukhat dvādaśa, dvādaśa vyatire kenayam mahājana api guhyam idam ajñāta-dvādaśādhikaṁ smaranti.(?)

*So the great compiler of religious scripture, headed by Manu and others, without knowing the simple method, they prescribe gorgeous ritualistic ceremonies. Kim ca māyayā divyalam vimohitam matir ayam jana madhu, madhunam yatha bhavati evam puspitayam puṣpa*-sthaniya ratavadi mano-harayam trayyam jadi-kṛta abhinivista-matir yasya ata eva mahaty eva karmany agni-stomadau śraddhayā yujyamānaḥ.(?) So being bewildered by the material or external energy, they take to these gorgeous ceremonies or sacrificial performances. Actually there is no need. The whole thing is that Śrīdhara Svāmī is giving stress very strongly that you can simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without undergoing any ritualistic ceremonies. Actually it is very difficult to understand. Mādhavendra Purī, our predecessor ācārya, he also has composed a nice verse. He says, "My dear gāyatrī-mantra, I offer you my respect, but no more I can chant gāyatrī-mantra." In this way... Taking bath early in the morning, that's a good recommendation for spiritual advancement. But Mādhavendra Purī said, "Now I am unable to execute this order. Please excuse me." In this way he has described in many ways. At last, he concludes that "I shall sit down somewhere underneath a tree and simply remember Govinda's name. That is sufficient. Yes." He says, "Please excuse me, please excuse me, please excuse me."

*But this Mādhavendra's statement is not for the neophyte devotees. We should not imitate Mādhavendra Purī. Mādhavendra Purī was the spiritual master of Īśvara Purī, and Īśvara Purī was the spiritual master of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So the position of Mādhavendra Purī, the position of Haridāsa Ṭhākura, they are different from our position. We should not imitate, that "Because Mādhavendra Purī gave up everything and simply concentrated his mind in chanting mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, or Haridāsa Ṭhākura, therefore I shall also do that. I shall not rise early in the morning. I shall not take bath. I shall not worship the Deity. Simply I shall..." That is not possible. That is not possible. But actually, if anyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra offenselessly and in devotion and love... There the first thing is love*-not force-love, what is called automatically, spontaneous. Spontaneous. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he said that "How I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in one tongue? If I had hundreds and thousands of tongues, then I could chant and relish what is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." That is a different stage. We should not imitate. But actually this is a fact, that simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you can get relief from all kinds of performances, ritualistic ceremonies. That is the point stressed by Śrīdhara Svāmī.

evaṁ vimṛśya sudhiyo bhagavaty anante

*sarvātmanā vidadhate khalu bhāva*-yogam

te me na daṇḍam arhanty atha yady amīṣāṁ

*syāt pātakaṁ tad api hanty urugāya*-vādaḥ

[SB 6.3.26]



*Now Yamarāja is saying that evaṁ vimṛśya sudhiyo bhagavaty anante. One who is so much attached unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead that he constantly associates with Him simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, or by performing the devotional service... Yamarāja does not, I mean to say, give only stress on the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. He is giving stress on different process of devotional service. Bhagavaty anante sarvātmanā vidadhate khalu bhāva-yogam. Sarvātmanā. Sarvātmanā means "in all respect." And bhāva-yogam means bhakti-yogam. So if anyone seriously takes to bhakti-yoga process without any reservation*-that means śuddha-bhakti, unalloyed devotional service, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11], as we have explained several times-then evaṁ vimṛśya sudhiyo bhagavaty anante sarvātmanā... There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*devarṣi*-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝṇāṁ

na kiṅkaro nāyam ṛṇī ca rājan

sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ

gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam

[SB 11.5.41]



*Sarvātmanā, this word, is very important. The Kṛṣṇa also asks when He said that "Giving up all other kinds of engagement of religious process, simply surrender unto Me." That is called sarvātmanā, "with all heart, with all intention, without any reservation," sarvātmanā, the exact meaning. Yamarāja says that "One who has taken to devotional service," sarvātmanā, "very seriously, and without any deviation," sarvātmanā vidadhate khalu bhāva*-yogam, te me na daṇḍam arhanti, "they are not," I mean to say, "within the jurisdiction of my punishment." It is clearly said, yama-daṇḍa. Those who are devotees, they are out of the jurisdiction of ruling of Yamarāja. It is especially stated here, te me na daṇḍam arhanti: "They are not liable for my punishment. Even they commit some mistake or fall down, or even they commit a very sinister, sinful activity, still, they are not under my jurisdiction." Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. But this concession... There are many other concessions. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who is engaged in devotional service, if unintentionally he commits some mistake and offense, I excuse."



*So these are special cases, not that because Kṛṣṇa promises to excuse... Because Kṛṣṇa says that "Even though he has committed such sinful activities, still, he's a sādhu," and although Yamarāja says that "Those who are engaged in devotional service, they are out of my jurisdiction of punishment," so we should not take advantage of this concession. That is a great offense, greatest offense. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. These concessions are there for the devotees, but not for intentional committing sinful activity. If by accident, if by previous habit, one commits some mistake or falls down, that is excused. And one should be repentant: "My dear Lord, I have committed this offense. Please excuse me." And one should fast. One should be very much repentant. Then Kṛṣṇa is so kind. But he hasn't got to take to the prāyaścitta or, what is called, atonement system. A devotee hasn't got to do that. A devotee's sinful activities is excused, and if he is repentant, then he is again elevated to his original position. That is the verdict of all śāstras.

*And here also the Yamarāja says that te me na daṇḍam arhanty atha yady amīṣāṁ syāt pātakaṁ tad api hanty urugāya*-vādaḥ: "Even if he has committed some sinful activities, because he is chanting the glories of the Lord, his sinful activity is not taken into account-excused." Te deva-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthā ye sādhavaḥ samadṛśo bhagavat-prapannāḥ. Bhagavat-prapannāḥ. How Yamarāja is eulogizing the devotees. Devotee is bhagavat-prapannāḥ. Bhagavat means to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Prapannāḥ means fully surrendered. Bhagavat-prapannāḥ. The same thing is corroborated here. So just like Kṛṣṇa said, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66], "I shall protect you from all sinful reaction," because there is declaration by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore His servant, the executor of the criminal department, Yamarāja, he also says that te deva-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthā ye sādhavaḥ samadṛśo bhagavat-prapannāḥ, that "A devotee who has fully surrendered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are worshiped by devaloka, siddhaloka." The demigods also, they worship. They show full respect.

*Now, Kṛṣṇa says that kāmais tais tair hṛta*-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya-devatāḥ: [Bg. 7.20] "Those who are worshipers of the demigods, they are bewildered by their lusty desires." And here Yamarāja says that deva-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthāḥ: "A devotee is worshiped by the devāḥ, demigods." Just try to understand the opposite direction, that those who are ordinarily enthused by lust and greed, they go to worship demigods. But if one becomes a devotee of the Lord, the demigods worship him. That is the prerogative of devotees. Siddha... Bhāva-yogam. There the bhāva... This word is bhāva-yogam. Bhāva means ecstasy. Ecstatic yoga, the yoga principle by which one comes to the ecstasy. Just like sometimes while you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa you come to the ecstatic point. You forget yourself and dance, forget everything. That is called bhāva-yogam. To the devotee it appears sometimes. So bhāva-yogam. There are aṣṭa-sāttvika-bhāva-sometimes crying, some stunned, sometimes perspiring. These things come to the devotee. That is not to be practiced artificially. When actually one advances in devotional service this bhāva-yoga, aṣṭa-sāttvika-bhāva, vikāra, comes into existence. Therefore the devotional service is known also, bhāva-yogam.

*Śrīdhara Svāmī says the bhāva-yogam... Sarvātmanā vidadhate khalu bhāva-yogaṁ syāt pātakam. So bhāva-yogam, bhakti-yogam amīṣāṁ pātakaṁ na syād eva yadi syād urugāyasya vāda-kīrtanam. Actually a devotee never commits any sinful activities. They are so careful, they are so sober, and because they are protected by Kṛṣṇa they never think of acting anything sinful. But sometimes it happens because this material world, sometimes we are prone to fall down. A devotee... Just like Arjuna. He was not willing to kill his kinsmen. Although he was so much insulted, he was bereft of his kingdom, his wife was insulted, still, he was thinking that "What is the use of killing my family members? Let them enjoy the kingdom. I shall better beg and live." He was thinking in that way because a devotee, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. A devotee, a pure devotee, is naturally qualified with all good qualities. Automatically it comes as he becomes... Just like as a man suffering from fever decreases the degree of fever*-he becomes healthy-similarly, with the increase of our degree of devotional service, naturally all the good qualities that is constitutionally existing in the pure soul... Pure soul, being part and parcel, it is naturally very pure. And Vedas says even when the soul is within the material existence, it is not mixed up. It remains always separate. Just like if you put a drop of oil in the water it does not mix-although it is in the water, it does not mix-similarly the spirit soul, part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa, although in the material world, he does not mix. Therefore if there is a process... Just like you can pick up the spot of oil floating in the water by some process immediately, similarly, by bhakti-yoga process, although the spirit soul is floating in this material ocean, he can be picked up immediately. He can be picked up. And asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The Veda says that "This puruṣa, the spirit soul, is always unmixed, unmixed." Therefore Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "This material association is simply a bewilderment. Actually it does not exist. I am Brahman; I am the same." But actually, although I am the same, because I am associating with the different qualities, I mean to say, higher qualities or lower qualities of the material nature, then that association will give me a different position, although I am not mixed up with this material existence.

*So Śrīdhara Svāmī says, bhāva*-yogaṁ bhakti, amīṣāṁ pātakaṁ na syād eva, yadi syād urugāyasya vāda-kīrtanam. The conclusion is that generally the devotee does not do anything which is sinful, but accidentally, unconsciously, if he does, because he's engaged in chanting or in the devotional service of the Lord, there is no sinful reaction on his life. That is the conclusion.

*Thank you very much. [break] Viṣṇujana is doing very nice. He has printed some literatures, and he's going for enrolling members. So I think this literature should be rendered into Hindi and Bengali. He has picked up from the purport of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam very nicely and presenting this booklet about the mission, missionary activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, The Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement Is the Genuine Vedic Way. He has done it nicely, so I think this should be translated in different languages. Yes. The selected portion he has picked up from the purport of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is a very nice arrangement. If you simply preach these principles, people will very much appreciate. Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night he had to stay up from nine o'clock 'til two in the morning preaching with someone. So I told him he should go and take rest when he came home.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. All right.



Devotee (1): Prabhupāda? You said Arjuna was lamenting, but pure devotees become... Superior qualities that all devotees possess... So why is this? So why did Kṛṣṇa call him a fool?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. In spite of our superior qualities, we are always fool. You should know. Don't be puffed up with your superior qualities. You should remain always fool. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He presents Himself as a fool. So even Caitanya Mahāprabhu presents Himself before His spiritual master as a fool. So that is a good qualification, to remain a fool. Otherwise, it he becomes puffed up-"Oh, I have learned everything. My business is finished"*-so there is prone to fall down again. And the spi... Because... Arjuna was addressed as a fool because Kṛṣṇa accepted, er, Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. So the spiritual master has the right, just like father has the right to say like that. So there was nothing wrong. [break] ...kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. This is chanting and hearing of the glories of Viṣṇu, harer nāma kīrtanam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. So that is the beginning. Devotional service begins from hearing. Unless there is chanting, what you can hear? Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. Śravaṇādi. Śravaṇa means hearing. That is the beginning of devotional... As you chant and hear, so you become purified more and more. Then your heart becomes cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The whole thing is that we have accumulated so many nasty things in our heart. That has to be moved. It is cleansing process. So chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means beginning the cleansing process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Is it clear? Or you have got any question like that?



*Devotee (2): What is the difference between bhakti*-yoga and bhāva-yoga?



*Prabhupāda: Bhāva-yoga... Bhāva-yoga and bhakti-yoga, the same thing, as Śrīdhara Svāmī has explained. Bhāva. Bhāva means the previous state of pure love for God. Tato bhāvas tataḥ... After bhāva, when we are always absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa in ecstasy, that is the immediate previous stage of love of Godhead, love of Kṛṣṇa. And bhakti-yoga means to invoke our dormant love for God, the same thing. Therefore bhāva-yoga and bhakti-yoga*-the same thing. And another name of bhakti-yoga is buddhi-yoga. Actually yoga means bhakti, but because yoga system has been used in so many other ways, therefore buddhi-yoga, bhāva-yoga, and bhakti-yoga, these terms are used. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Without bhāva-yoga, nobody can worship Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Bhajante. Bhajante means engaged in devotional service. Why? Now, budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ: "Because he is situated in the bhāva." What is that bhāva? That bhāva is vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. One who is always absorbed in thought, one who sees Kṛṣṇa's energy in everything, that is called bhāva. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. How that bhāva comes? When one understands clearly that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of all creation. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "Everything is emanating from Me." When one understands this fact in full knowledge, that is called bhāva. He sees everything. He doesn't see anything except Kṛṣṇa. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti. He sees the trees and the animals, or the men, sthāvara-jaṅgama, everything he sees, but he does not see the tree, but he sees in that tree Kṛṣṇa. That is bhāva-yoga.



*sthāvara*-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti

*sarvatra haya nija iṣṭa*-deva-sphūrti

[Cc. Madhya 8.274]



Do you follow this Bengali? Sthāvara. Sthāvara means living entities which does not move, just like trees, plants, creepers. And jaṅgama means those who are moving. Animals, man, they move. So a devotee who is actually in bhāva stage, he may see a tree or an animal or a man, but he does not see the man or tree or the animal; *he sees a part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, a jīvātmā. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. That is the stage of full knowledge. He does not see the skin or the dress. Just like when we talk with a gentleman, we do not see to the dress; *we see the person as he is. So that's a stage. That is called bhāva*-sam..., budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. (end)





710220SB.GOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 6.3.27-28

-

Gorakhpur, February 20, 1971



*Haṁsadūta: The following lecture was recorded on the morning of February 20, 1971, at Sree Krishna*-niketana, Gorakhpur, U.P.



Prabhupāda:



*te deva*-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthā

*ye sādhavaḥ samadṛśo bhagavat*-prapannāḥ

tān nopasīdata harer gadayābhiguptān

naiṣāṁ vayaṁ na ca vayaḥ prabhavāma daṇḍe

[SB 6.3.27]



*So devotees, they are so exalted that as Kṛṣṇa's activities, pastimes, are transcendentally relishable, similarly, devotees dealings with the Personality of Godhead is also relishable. Sometimes we find the gopīs, they accuse Kṛṣṇa, "Ungrateful cheater," and so many things. Very strong words sometimes gopīs use. When Uddhava came, they immediately accused Uddhava, "Oh, you are coming from Kṛṣṇa? We know your Kṛṣṇa, how cheater He is. So you must be another cheater." You see? But these strong words used by the gopīs in connection with Kṛṣṇa, that is, it is stated here, te deva*-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthā. When these words are discussed even in the society of the demigods and the siddhas...



*Siddha means there is a Siddhaloka. The inhabitants of that planet, they are automatically yoga*-siddhi. All the perfection of yogic principles are there, yoga siddha. There are different planets of different vibhūtis. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. Every planet is differently exalted. And the more you go in the upper planetary systems, thousands and thousands of times better comfortable life than on this planet. I have several times explained. Vibhūti-bhinnam. All of them are differently situated. Not that all planets are of the same type. So there is a Siddhaloka. In that Siddhaloka, if anyone wants to go to another planet, he does not require any airplane or sputnik. He can go immediately. That is called Siddhaloka.

*So ye sādhavaḥ. Te deva*-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthā. Pavitra-gāthā, varṇita pavitra-kathā. If they are discussed as Kṛṣṇa's pastimes... Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. As Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's activities, are puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ... If somebody hears and chants, if he does not understand even a farthing of it, still, he becomes pious. There is no need of understanding. Simply that holy sound will make his heart pure. Pavitra-gāthā. This sound. Just like when kīrtana is going on, an animal is standing. He does not understand what is the meaning of that kīrtana, but that sound will purify him. There are many insects within this room, many small creatures, ants, mosquitos, flies. Simply by hearing this holy name, transcendental vibration, they will be purified. Pavitra-gāthā. As soon as you discuss dealings of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs... Because Kṛṣṇa's pastimes means there must be the other party. And what is that other party? That is devotee. Dealings. There is a proverb like that. Some foolish persons were speaking that "This year I have seen many boys were married." What does it mean? Many boys are married means there must be many girls also. Otherwise, how he's married? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes means there must be devotees; otherwise, with whom Kṛṣṇa will play? Kṛṣṇa does not play with any other one unless they are devotees. Sādhavo hṛdayaṁ mahyam. As a devotee is always absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always absorbed in thought of His devotees.

The gopīs... Kṛṣṇa became absent from Vṛndāvana, so their mind was always absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present in Vṛndāvana, that time also. When Kṛṣṇa used to go the forest, the gopīs were thinking of Kṛṣṇa always: "Oh, how Kṛṣṇa is walking on the rough field. There are so many stone chips. Kṛṣṇa's feet is so soft. How He is feeling?" And feeling this, they were crying. That was the gopīs. So therefore, as Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's thought, they are absolute, there is no difference... Therefore it is said Kṛṣṇa never goes a step forward from Vṛndāvana because gopīs have captured them. Kṛṣṇa cannot go out of Vṛndāvana on account of gopīs always thinking of Him. The gopīs will never cease to think of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore it is not possible for Kṛṣṇa to go out of Vṛndāvana, although physically He may not be present. He has no difference between physical or mental, or subtle or gross. He has no such difference. Kṛṣṇa is absolute any way. Similarly, if you also think of Kṛṣṇa, if you are also pure devotee, then Kṛṣṇa is always with you. That is the advantage. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad*-gatena [Bg. 6.47]? The topmost yogi: those who are always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Pavitra-gāthā.

*Te deva*-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthā ye sādhavaḥ samadṛśo bhagavat-prapannāḥ. Bhagavat-prapannāḥ sādhavaḥ. Sādhus, sādhavaḥ, bahuvacana, plural number. So only the bhagavat-prapannāḥ sādhus, not others. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Api cet sudurācāraḥ. Sādhu, there is a word, sādhu, means "pious man." So pious man is he who is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, bhagavat-prapannāḥ. They are sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. Ajāta-śatravaḥ... Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām, titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ [SB 3.25.21]. These are the symptoms of sādhavaḥ, sādhus. The first symptom is titikṣavaḥ, very tolerant. In any condition they'll go on thinking of Kṛṣṇa, never mind what is happening externally. There may be so many dangerous things coming and going, but they cannot give up thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Titikṣavaḥ. And kāruṇikāḥ. Kāruṇikāḥ means very compassionate. Just like Gosvāmīs. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. The devotee's business is he's always thinking of how to do good to the people in general, how they will accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply twenty-four hours thinking, making plan. Therefore kāruṇikāḥ. Although personally they are in so many inconveniences-tolerating. But that planning, Kṛṣṇa planning, is going on. Kāruṇikāḥ: how the people of the world will be happy. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ. Why they are planning like...? Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. They are not selfish, "Now I have become Kṛṣṇa devotee. That's all right. Let others go to hell." No. They want to see that everyone becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are real friend. That is, he is real friend. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau.

*The Gosvāmīs, ideal. They left their comfortable position as ministers, went to Vṛndāvana, and became a mendicant. Kaupīna*-kanthāśritau. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Because they were ministers, their associates, their friends, their companions were all rich men, aristocratic. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati. Maṇḍala-pati means "great leaders of aristocratic family." He gave up. Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, they gave up this association of big aristocratic families. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Tucchavat means "There is no necessity. It is most insignificant. We don't want it." Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa... Why you are standing? Huh?

Haṁsadūta: This just fell off the wall.



*Prabhupāda: Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Just like you have got a piece of scrap paper, you throw it away, similarly, they gave up the association of aristocratic families just like: "Oh, what is this? No need. Throw it away." Tucchavat. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Being compassionate with the poor souls. Poor souls... Who are poor souls? Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a poor soul. He may be outwardly very rich, but he's a poor soul. Dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhuḥ. And how they were living? Always thinking of the pastimes of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa. That was their life substance. How Kṛṣṇa gopī-jana-vallabha. They are thinking of Kṛṣṇa as gopī-jana-vallabha. That is Kṛṣṇa's business. Rādhā-mādhava gopī-jana-vallabha. So how gopī-jana-vallabha was dealing, they were always thinking. In that ecstasy they were keeping life. Otherwise, they had no comforts of the body. They gave up everything, living underneath a tree and became a mendi... Kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Kaupīna means simply the two pieces of underwear, that's all. No gorgeous clothing, nothing of the sort. But they were rich in understanding the gopī-jana-vallabha. They understood what is gopī-jana-vallabha. Gopī-bhāva-rasa. That is just like ocean. Rasāmṛtābdhi. There is a rasa, mellow, which they were tasting twenty-four hours, and therefore they didn't care whether they were living underneath a tree or there was no cloth, no food. That doesn't matter. Gopī-jana-vallabha.



*So sādhavaḥ, they are... Apparently, it appears that they are living in a very, in a poor condition. But they are very rich. Sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ sādhu*-bhūṣaṇāḥ. These are the symptoms of sādhu.

titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ

*suhṛdaḥ sarva*-dehinām

ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ

*sādhavaḥ sādhu*-bhūṣaṇāḥ

[SB 3.25.21]



The first thing is they are very tolerant, titikṣavaḥ; kāruṇikāḥ, compassionate; *and suhṛdaḥ, friend of all living entities. They are not like that... Just like politicians, they are friends only to the countrymen or to the party. But still, they are so much eulogized: "Oh, he is our leader." But this sort of leader cannot be compared with a sādhu because a sādhu is leader for all living entities. They are thinking of the ant also, how it will be helped. Not only human society or own society, family members. There cannot be broader*-minded than a sādhu. That is real sādhu. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. Friend of all living entities. Never mind whether it is an ant or whether he is Brahmā-he's friend of everyone. Ajāta-śatravaḥ. And because a sādhu is friend of everyone, there cannot be any conceivable enemy. But still, there are enemies. That is the nature of the world.



*So here it is said, ye sādhavaḥ samadṛśaḥ. Samadṛśaḥ. Samadṛśaḥ means equally, equipoised. Not that "I shall simply serve this, my brothers or my community or my society or my nation or the human society." Nowadays there is a hobby. Just like Vivekananda: "daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā," the human society, the poor men. And chāga-nārāyaṇa, the goat nārāyaṇa, they must be killed for this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. This kind of discrimination of not for the sādhu. He's not a sādhu. Sādhu is equally disposed to all living entities*-not only human society; *animal society. In the material atmosphere... Because the material atmosphere is envious to one another. I am envious to you, you are envious to me. That is the position of the material world. So these so*-called philanthropists or altruists, they take a section only, do good to them, but neglect others. Neglect others. Or others are enemies. But a sādhu is equipoised. He takes compassion for all kinds of living entities. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. Ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. Ye sādhavaḥ samadṛśo bhagavat-prapannāḥ. So without being surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa, bhagavat-prapannāḥ, there cannot be any sādhu and there cannot be any man equipoised to everyone. (short Hindi conversation with a woman) But these are the description of sādhu. Bhagavat-prapannāḥ. Each and every word is so nice, perfect in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, describing... Ye sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ means those who are pious men. Who is a pious man? Samadṛśaḥ. Samadṛśaḥ, equipoised. And bhagavat-prapannāḥ.

So therefore the conclusion is the same thing as we repeat several times: without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, nobody can be a good man. That's all. We should not hate, that "Oh, he's not a good man; *therefore we have to hate." No. That is not our business. No. But this is the conclusion. And because the world is full of no good men, therefore we have to preach. So we cannot hate, even he's not a good man. But this is a fact. One who is not a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he's not a good man. But our duty is preach. Because the world is full of no*-good men, therefore we have to preach. Otherwise what is the use of preaching? Therefore we should not be envious, although a man is not good man. That is the time. Samadṛśaḥ. Just like Gosvāmīs. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Dhīra. Dhīra means sober, and adhīra means rascals. So dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. They are priya, dear, both the rascals and good men because they were distributing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, just you saw in Benares. Not that all the men who joined the procession, they were all good men. From materialist's point of view... But this Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind, thousand of men joined Caitanya and they danced. Dhīrādhīra. Not that in the crowd only selected devotees were there. No. Most of them, ninety-nine percent all nondevotees. Similarly, in your country you have seen. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu statue attracted so many people in Berkeley.

*Dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His servant, they are dear both to the sober and rascals. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Because in their mind there is no such discrimination that "Here is a rascal. I shall not talk to him," or "Here is only good man. I shall talk to him." No. Nityānanda Prabhu, He first of all selected, "Oh, here is Jagāi-Mādhāi. All right, first..., My first business is with them," and delivered them. These are the examples. Sādhu. What is sādhu? Sādhu is not with a tilaka and in a secluded place chanting and not coming out and very, imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura. And as soon as the throat is dry, "Oh, biḍi. Give me biḍi." You see? These imitations are going on. You see. Showing just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, but chanting, chanting, the throat becomes dry, and immediately assistance of cigarette or biḍi is required, or a gāñjā, (laughter) still more. What do you think, Muktānanda? Is it not? Did you practice this?

Muktānanda: No, I have not... (laughter)



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. Therefore you have come to us. Because... So sādhavaḥ samadṛśo bhagavat*-prapannāḥ tān nopasīdata. These are the signs of sādhu. "Don't approach there." Yamarāja says, "Don't approach there. Be careful. You have no business to go there." Nopasīdata. "Don't approach." Why nopasīdata? Harer gadayābhiguptān. "You know, Viṣṇu has got club? Immediately that club will be used." Just like the Viṣṇudūta acted in case of Ajāmila as soon as they approached. Therefore warning, "Don't do this again. One who's a devotee, don't do, don't go there. Otherwise... They are protected by the club of Viṣṇu, cakra. Immediately that will be used." Just see, everything is clearly said.



*So simply become Kṛṣṇa devotee, your life is successful. That's all. You are well protected and you are very recognized. Your qualities, your everything becomes all transcendental, immediately. It is so nice. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām [Bg. 18.66]. "I'll give you." That is... These are things are stated. Tān nopasīdata harer gadayābhiguptān naiṣāṁ vayaṁ na ca vayaḥ prabhavāma daṇḍe. "They are not our candidates and neither we have got any power to punish them. Even he's in wrong, that is not our jurisdiction. That is Kṛṣṇa's jurisdiction. Kṛṣṇa will see to it what to do, even if he's wrong." That is called departmental punishment. That is Kṛṣṇa's departmental punishment. Not outside. "Kṛṣṇa may punish him or excuse him; that is Kṛṣṇa's business, not ours." Therefore a devotee knows, when he's fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, if there is some punishment from the side of Kṛṣṇa, they accept it as mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ [SB 10.14.8]. They have the eyes to see that "This is mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has put me into some dangerous position. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy." And actually it is so. By a little inconvenience, immediately he's rectified.

So Yamarāja says, naiṣāṁ vayaṁ na ca vayaḥ prabhavāma daṇḍe. Atas tān nopasīdata samipan api na gacchat.(?) Śrīdhara Svāmī says, "Do not try to go their vicinity even, what to speak of going directly before them. Where they are sitting, don't go hundreds of thousands years away's time." Vayaḥ kālo 'pi na prabhavati. Then the Yamadūtas can say that "We may not go, but the time factor will act on them." So that is also, "No. There is no question of time factor for them." Such are the facilities. Now, Yamarāja is a mahājana. We have to take his statement, how devotees are stated. Kṛṣṇa says summarily that "I'll give you protection." And how they are protected you have to learn from the mahājana. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Then next question will be: "Then what is our business? Where to go? Suppose they're all devotee?" Sometimes a rascal question is there, that "If everyone becomes devotee, how this world will go on?" That is their concern. If everyone becomes honest, how the prison house will go on? What is the use of prison house? If it is closed, that is good. Similarly, if the whole world becomes devotee and the business of the material world is closed for good, that is very good. But that will not happen. That is not possible.

*So Yamarāja says, tān ānayadhvam. Tān ānayadhvam asato vimukhān mukunda*-pādāravinda-makaranda-rasād ajasram [SB 6.3.28]. "You simply approach to persons who are averse to the lotus feet of Mukunda, Kṛṣṇa. One who does not relish the honey in the lotus feet..." Because in the lotus there is honey. So devotees, they take the honey at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa... But how? What they are tasting? They are tasting: niṣkiñcanaiḥ paramahaṁsa-kulair asaṅgair juṣṭād gṛhe niraya-vartmani baddha-tṛṣṇān. Those who are not associating with pure devotees, niṣkiñcanaiḥ. One who has no other business than to taste the honey at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa... The persons who are not associating, that means those who are not becoming life members of Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. (chuckles) Yamarāja is advising, "Go there." (laughter) "Go there." Why? Why? Juṣṭād gṛhe niraya-vartmani baddha-tṛṣṇān. They are staying at home, which is the path to hell, and they are absorbed in unlimited desires. Gṛhe. Gṛhe. Gṛhe means staying at home, not going out for canvassing for Kṛṣṇa. Gṛhe niraya-vartmani. What is this gṛhe? Niraya means hell, and vartmani means path. Gṛhe means "the path of going to hell." That was also advised by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Gṛham andha-kūpam. Tyaktvā gṛham andha-kūpam. Andha-kūpam means blind well. I saw one blind well in Ascot when I was at... What is his name?

Haṁsadūta: John Lennon.



*Prabhupāda: John Lennon's house. There was a blind pit, and it was covered with grass, and somebody fell. So this gṛham andha*-kūpam, this family life is sometimes... Unless there is Kṛṣṇa, the family life... Without Kṛṣṇa, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, family life is just like a blind well covered with grass. As soon as you go, and fall down. Prahlāda Mahārāja recommended that one should give up this blind well and go to the open forest. So here also it is said, gṛhe niraya-vartmani baddha-tṛṣṇān. And why they are staying in that blind well? Baddha-tṛṣṇān, conditioned by material desires. That's all. Thinking that "I am in family. My..., they are friends, they are countrymen, they are my children, and they'll give me protection. What this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will give us protection? They have no money. They are begging. So how they can?" No. That is their idea, that "This, my family affairs, a nice situation, that will give me protection." But that is wrong. Teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati.



*dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣv

*ātma*-sainyeṣv asatsv api

teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*They think that "This atmosphere will give me protection," without seeing that they'll be all destroyed by the laws of nature. So Yamarāja says, "Those who are under this conception, that 'This secure home life will give me protection...,' " but that is not the fact. Such security means security for gliding down to hell. That's all. Juṣṭād gṛhe niraya*-vartmani baddha-tṛṣṇān.



*(reads commentary): Ke tarhi daṇḍārtham anaya tat praha tan iti darbhyam asataḥ.(?) Asataḥ, duṣṭān. Asat means duṣṭān, rogues. Asato duṣṭān tan eva aha mukunda pādāravindayoḥ.(?) How one can distinguish that he's a rogue? That's what I say, that rogue you can understand immediately: who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's a rogue. So tān evāha mukunda*-pādāravindayo marakanda-rūpa-rasaṁ tasmād vimukhān. Those who are averse to taste the honey in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are rogues. They are rogues. And the Yamarāja is advising, "Go there. Bring them here, and I shall chastise them nicely." That is Yamarāja. Duṣṭān tān eva āha mukunda-pādāravindayo yo makaranda-rūpa tasmād vimukhān. Kathām bhūtat? Niṣkiñcinair ajasram juṣṭād tesam jñāpakam aha niraya-vartmani sva-dharma-sunye gṛhe baddha trsnad ye tan.(?) So what is their symptoms? Their symptoms we shall describe tomorrow. [break]

The advantages of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Yamarāja personally explains. He is mahājana. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a candidate for Yamarāja. [break] ...incarnations are as unlimited as there are waves in the sea. As there is no limit how may waves are there, similarly there is no limit of Kṛṣṇa's incarnation. But some of the prominent incarnations connected with this world, they have been mentioned. Now this boy is advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by this method. So Kauśalyā has transferred Kṛṣṇa consciousness to him?

Devotee: She's leaving today.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he's also leaving today. That means he has to transfer it to someone else. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...ādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. We should not transfer our service to somebody. The more we serve, the more we understand Kṛṣṇa. We should follow this principle. Sevonmukhe hi... The only means of understanding Kṛṣṇa is service. There is no other means. [break]



Devotee: Some day one person will do the floor, and the next day another person? Is that all right?



Prabhupāda: If one man can continue, that's nice. Why should we try for another man?



Devotee: I was thinking that everybody could have an opportunity that way.



Prabhupāda: Well, that is very doubtful. (chuckles) The opportunity is neglected. That attitude, it is accepted that "Here is an opportunity," that is very nice. But sometimes we try to transfer the opportunity, being compassionate with another devotee. (laughter) Himāvatī? (chuckles) Devotees are very compassionate. (laughs) Kāruṇikāḥ. "Please you take this service, and other service, I may take prasādam. (laughter) That I cannot neglect." And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, any service you do, still you are accepted. Either you take this service or that service, still you are accepted. (end)





*Śrīmad Bhāgavatam* 7.5: Lectures



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.1, Pandal Lecture

--

Bombay, January 12, 1973

730112SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.1,

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, January 12, 1973



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, pañcama skandha, Fifth Canto. There are twelve cantos, skandhas, or division, of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇaṁ yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is amalaṁ purāṇam. Amala means spotless. There are eighteen purāṇas. Six purāṇas for the sattvic people, those who are in the modes of goodness. There are three qualities of the material nature: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. The living entities, or the jīvātmās, they are in this material world for sense gratification. Anyone, beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the small ant or microscopic insect, everyone, every living entity, has come here in this material world for gratifying their senses.



*The Prema-vivarta, an authorized book by one of the disciples of Lord Caitanya, he says*-it is in Bengali-

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



As soon as we desire to enjoy... Because constitutionally we are not enjoyer; *we are enjoyed. We are not predominator, but we are predominated. That is our position. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our real position is to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is our real position. But because we have got little independence... Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is supremely independent. abhijñaḥ sva*-rāṭ. Description of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. Sva-rāṭ means fully independent. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. But because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we are minutely possessing almost, not all, all the qualities of Kṛṣṇa in proportionately in minute quantity. Just like the particle of gold is also gold. That is nothing else but gold. But the value of that particle is different from the gold mine. Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa is like that. Kṛṣṇa is just like the gold mine, and I and you, just like gold earring. The gold earring or gold finger ring or any golden ornament, that is gold undoubtedly, but is not as big as the gold mine. That is the difference between God and ourself. That is the difference. Qualitatively, we are one, being part and parcel of the Supreme Absolute Truth, but quantitatively we are different. Therefore, simultaneously, we are one and different. This is called acintya-bhedābheda tattva. Acintya. We cannot conceive in our present status of life that one thing can be equal and different from another. But if we think over it (a) little soberly, we can understand. This is the example. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7].



So aṁśa, particle, that is also sanātana. Not that, as the Māyāvādī philosophers say, that because we are now under the illusion, therefore we are thinking as different; *otherwise, God and we are the same. This Vaiṣṇava philosophy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva. There are other Vaiṣṇava philosophers also-viśuddha-dvaita, dvaitādvaita, advaita, like that. So many philosophies are there. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the latest ācārya who appeared five thousand years ago, er, five hundred years ago, I'm sorry, He preached this acintya-bhedābheda-tattva. Means that jīva, simultaneously one and different, one in quality and different in quantity. This is very reasonable. And it is confirmed in the Vedas, Upaniṣad. Just like in Kaṭhopaniṣad it is said:

nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām

eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān

(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)



*So Kṛṣṇa is the supreme nitya, eternal, and we are also eternal. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mamaivāṁśa jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. We are eternal, and Kṛṣṇa is also eternal. That is qualitatively one. Kṛṣṇa is cetana, living force. We are also living force. So in that way, we are one in quality. But His living force and our living force, different in quality. His creative power, my creative power, your creative power, they are different. You can create a few skyscraper buildings, but Kṛṣṇa has created millions and trillions of universes. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. We are simply experiencing one jagad-aṇḍa, or universe, but there are jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi, there are millions and trillions of universes. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat.

atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



Kṛṣṇa, when He was inquired about His opulence, about His potencies, vibhūti, Kṛṣṇa explained that "I am like this, I am like this, I am like this." But He concluded that "How much I shall describe? Try to understand this."



atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*"This whole material manifestation, cosmic manifestation, is maintained by one of My plenary portion, Paramātmā." That is also confirmed in the Brahma*-saṁhitā:



*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi

*yac*-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.35]



So Kṛṣṇa, by His one plenary portion as Paramātmā... The Absolute Truth is realized in three ways: Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān.



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*So Kṛṣṇa, by His Paramātmā feature, He is all*-pervading. He is in all universes. He is all, everywhere, in the heart of all living entity. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ... Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. And He is also within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. This is Kṛṣṇa. So one has to understand Kṛṣṇa perfectly. So for preliminary study of Kṛṣṇa, there is Bhagavad-gītā, how to understand Kṛṣṇa. And next... Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD, primary entrance to the understanding of spiritual life. This is ABCD. But people are so fallen that they cannot understand even ABCD, what to speak of becoming graduate or postgraduate. In this age people are so fallen. This Mahābhārata... Mahābhārata was given by Vyāsadeva for the less intelligent class of men: strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocarā [SB 1.4.25]. Śruti means Vedas. Vyāsadeva considered that stri, woman; *śūdra, the fourth*-class men... Strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnām... Dvija-bandhu means those who are born in higher-class society-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya-but they are not qualified. They are simply proud of getting birth in higher families. They are called dvija-bandhu. They are equal to woman and the śūdra. Strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocarā. Trayī means the Vedas. Karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, upāsana-kāṇḍa. There are three methods in understanding Vedas, and their language, their process, is very difficult. Therefore Vyāsadeva, considering the immediate inauguration of Kali-yuga... Because Vyāsadeva appeared at the end of Dvāpara-yuga. So before writing these Vedas, Vyāsadeva, by Vyāsadeva, there was no written scripture. Therefore these Vedas are called śrutis. People learn it simply by hearing, śruti. Śrotram. Śrotriyam. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Śrotriyam means the guru must be (an) expert who has heard from his bona fide spiritual master. That's śrotriyam, not śaukram. Śaukram means generation by semina. And śrotriyam, generation by hearing from the bona fide spiritual master. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. After hearing, one must be firmly fixed up in brahma-jñāna. Brahma-niṣṭham. This is called śrotriyam.



*So dvija*-bandhu means who has not perfected his knowledge by hearing from the bona fide source. He is called dvija-bandhu. And the śūdras have no facility, neither the woman has got the facility to go to the gurukula and become a brahmacārī and remain there and learn the Vedic literature. Because women were not allowed, neither could follow. It is not discrimination. It is actual fact by nature. There may be some exception, but by nature it is so fixed up. So for them, this Mahābhārata, greater history, or history of greater India, Mahābhārata...

*This Bhārata... Bhārata means this planet, not this small land now we are occupying. No. This whole planet is called Bhārata*-varṣa. Since the time of Mahārāja Bhārata, he was the emperor of the whole world. Formerly we understand from history that the king of Hastināpura was the emperor of the whole world, up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, five thousand years ago. After that, it became separated on account of depreciation of the Vedic culture. They could not control. Just like we could not control Pakistan. They have gone away. Pakistan, twenty years ago, it was India, but they have left you. The Mussulmans, they left you because you could not control them. That is your fault. And the fault is depreciation of the Vedic culture. In the Vedic culture there is no such thing that once one has become fallen, he cannot be reclaimed. He can be reclaimed. It doesn't matter however fallen he is. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Pāpa-yoni. According to Vedic culture the lower class of people... Lower class of people means one who cannot be educated to the Vedic culture. He is called lower class. Otherwise the Vedic culture is open for everyone. So Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Never mind, papa-yoni. He can be claimed. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. So suppose these Muhammadans or others in India... The Muhammadans, these Muhammadans did not come from any other part of the world. They were lower class and they, after Aurangzeb's propaganda of Obzevier(?) tax, some of them or more of them, they became Mussulmans. This is the historical fact. So why they were not reclaimed again? Reclaimed. Of course, some of the sannyāsīs, they tried to reclaim, but that was not the proper way; therefore it was failure.

*The proper way of reclaiming all the fallen souls: by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. One has to be educated to take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. Not otherwise. You cannot propagate śuddhi movement by otherwise. You have to reclaim everyone to the Vedic platform by making him Vaiṣṇava. Because when one becomes Vaiṣṇava, he becomes transcendental. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Māṁ hi pārtha, er, māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Avyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena. Bhakti-yoga, the process of devotional service, if one is engaged, avyabhicāriṇi, without any adulteration... Real bhakti-yoga means,

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*This is real bhakti. There cannot be any motive behind bhakti*-yoga. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam and jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], and transcendental to the position of philosophical speculation and fruitive activities. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. Just simply to serve Kṛṣṇa favorably, ānukūla, that is bhakti. So this bhakti is called avyabhicāriṇi-bhakti, without any adulteration, without any mutilation, perfect bhakti. So by that bhakti,



māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



That person who is engaged in pure devotional service, he transcends all the qualities of material nature.



*Our defect is... Just like I have already explained that we are gold because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the big gold, we are simply small particle of gold. That is the difference. But gold is always valuable, may be a small particle or big. So our position is transcendental. Our position is not material. But we have been captured by the material nature because we wanted to disobey the orders of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā... And because we disobeyed or we did not like to serve Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have been sent into this material world. Icchā*-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. Icchā: "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I not become Kṛṣṇa? Let me become God." That is still going on. Even big, big advanced spiritually sannyāsī, they are thinking that "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I go to serve Kṛṣṇa? This is slave mentality. Just become Kṛṣṇa. I am Kṛṣṇa. Now I am in māyā; *I am not Kṛṣṇa. But as soon as my māyā is over, then I become Kṛṣṇa." Then the question is this: "If you are Kṛṣṇa, why māyā covered you? Then māyā is greater than Kṛṣṇa." So this question they cannot answer, that "Why you have been fallen?" No. The real explanation is that because we are little Kṛṣṇa... Just like the father and the little child, if there is fight, the father may come out victorious, the child may become overwhelmed, similarly, we are also Kṛṣṇa, a small particle of Kṛṣṇa, but some way or other, when we come in touch with this material world, we contact either of the three modes of material nature, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, and according to our association with the particular type of nature, we get a different type of body. Kāraṇāṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

*Why there are different types of living entities, different types of bodies? That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kāraṇam, the cause, the reason is, guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya. Guṇa saṅgasya. So we are gold, but some gold has fallen in the mud, some gold has fallen in the water, some gold has fallen on the grass. These are examples. They are very much nicely explained in the Vedic literature. Sometimes the living entity is considered as the spark of fire. You have seen the sparks of fire. So the fire, original fire, is never covered by māyā or darkness. But the small particle of fire, which are called sparks, they, as soon as come out of the fire, they are extinguished. No more, I mean to say, sparking. So this is our position. Although we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, sanātana, eternally... Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Because on account of our material mind... Material mind means the mind is absorbed in the thought of enjoying this material world. This is the beginning of our material disease. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi [Bg. 15.7]. Then according to the mind, we develop different senses, and we are trying to enjoy this material world in different type of body. That is our material disease. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Therefore the whole Vedic literature is meant for reminding us about our original position. That is explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Kṛṣṇa... Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli' gela. We have forgotten Kṛṣṇa anādi. Anādi means we do not know when we did forgot, but we have forgotten our relationship. Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli'... ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karilā. These Vedas and the Purāṇas, they are meant for reminding us, to give us information that "You are not this material body. You are not Indian, you are not American, you are not brāhmaṇa, you are not śūdra. You are eternally part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So your business is to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is the purpose of all Vedic literature. Vedaiṣ ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15].

*So the Bhagavad*-gītā is giving us directly information about our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa personally giving instruction that is His position and what is our position, what is our relationship with Him and what is the ultimate goal of life. These are called in Sanskrit language, sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana. Sambandha means we must know what is our relationship with God, Kṛṣṇa. That is called sambandha. Everyone is speaking about God. That is human nature. Any civilized form of human society has some sort of religious principles, to understand God. That is a fact. So in the human form of life, this is the main question. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. "What is my relationship with God? What I am? Why I am suffering in this material world? Is there a solution?" This is the business of human form of life, not to imitate the animals, how to eat nicely, how to live nicely, how to have sexual intercourse nicely and how to defend. These are animal propensities. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narānām. The animals are also doing the same business, whole day and night. Therefore Bhāgavata says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "This human form of life is not meant for to work so hard like hogs and dogs simply for sense gratification." The aim is only sense gratification. In the modern civilization they have no other aim. They do not know "What is God, what is my relationship with God, what is the ultimate goal of life, how shall I work in this material world?" These questions are rejected. It is very abominable condition of the human society. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important to enlivening the whole human society to his real position, constitutional position. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].

*mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta

*jīva*-loke sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

*prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati

[Bg. 15.7]



*So long, long ago there was an atheist king, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyakaśipu, and his son happened to be a Vaiṣṇava, Prahlāda. So Prahlāda, from the beginning of his life, he was a Vaiṣṇava, although born of an atheist father, Hiraṇyakaśipu. So we shall try to explain the life of Prahlāda Mahārāja while reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there are twelve cantos, out of which we are just trying to explain in the Fifth Canto..., not Fifth Canto, Seventh Canto, Fifth Chapter, Prahlāda Mahārāja's upākhyāna. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father Hiraṇyakaśipu was so powerful king that he became by force, demonic force, he became practically the ruler of the all planets. There are different planetary system within this universe. So this demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, some way or other, he achieved great prowess and he conquered over all the planets. Even the demigods, they were under the subjugation of Hiraṇyakaśipu. So his son Prahlāda from the very beginning of his life, because he got instruction from Nārada Muni within the belly of his mother... This is the story. When the demigods conquered over this Hiraṇyakaśipu, they captured his wife Kayādhu. At that time the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu was pregnant, and Prahlāda Mahārāja was there. So because the woman was pregnant, the demigods were taking her away. On the way, Nārada Mahāmuni met the demigods, Indra. So he inquired, "What you are doing? You are dragging a woman? Oh, this is not good." So they explained that "We have nothing to do with this woman. Because within the womb of this woman there is a son of Hiraṇyakaśipu*-he is also demon-therefore, as soon as she gives birth to the child, we shall kill him. This is our program." Nārada Muni said, "No. This child is not demon. This child is a great devotee, mahā-bhāgavata. So you cannot do that." So they accepted the word of Nārada Muni and they offered obeisances, "Oh, here is a Vaiṣṇava." This is demigod. Although they were carrying out, thinking of the child as a demon, but when they heard from Nārada Muni that "This child is not a demon: he is a great devotee," immediately they offered respect and they circumambulated the mother of Prahlāda Mahārāja and they went away. And the lady was taken care of, Nārada Muni. And Nārada Muni instructed the mother. Because as soon as you meet some saintly person, his business is to instruct you about spiritual matter. So Hiraṇyakaśipu's wife was situated in the house, in the ashram of Nārada Muni, and she wanted protection that "Until my husband comes back, kindly give me protection so that my child may not take birth." So Nārada Muni gave her benediction, "Yes, even it is mature, unless your husband comes back, you will not deliver the child." So he instructed, and the instruction was so powerful. Spiritual instruction is not conditioned by the material nature. Ahaituky apratihatā. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



This instruction of bhakti is so powerful that even a child can receive it in any condition of life. We have seen when our saṅkīrtana is performed, especially the children, they immediately imitate... Because they cannot vibrate, small children, but they give claps. The saṅkīrtana movement is so perfect that there is no question of any material condition. In any condition Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be aroused, provided it is in touch with a Kṛṣṇa conscious bona fide spiritual master.



*So this child, Prahlāda Mahārāja, from, in the womb of his mother he learned spiritual instruction and he became Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore from his birth he was chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and his father was very, very much unhappy: "What kind of child is born? He is Kṛṣṇa conscious." Because he is, he was very much against Viṣṇu. Because Lord Viṣṇu killed his brother Hiraṇyākṣa, so Hiraṇyakaśipu always considered Viṣṇu as the enemy. So he did not like that his son Prahlāda Mahārāja should become a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means viṣṇur asya devatā iti vaiṣṇava. One who has taken, accepted Lord Viṣṇu... That is the Vedic instruction, to take shelter of Lord Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Ṛg mantra, Ṛg*-veda mantra. Viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. Those who are sūraya, sūri or devatā, they are always aiming at the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. That is the highest perfection of life. Other demigods, they are not our goal of life. That is also condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Anya-devatāḥ. Who are the worshipers of the anya-devatā, other demigods? Those who are lost of their senses. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. These are the statements. In the Bhāgavata also it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. People generally, they do not know that their goal of life should be to take shelter of Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-tattva and Kṛṣṇa-tattva the same thing.

*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*So our aim of life should be how to understand Viṣṇu-tattva, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the origin of Viṣṇu-tattva. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. He is the origin. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. These are things. Aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ [Bg 10.2]. These are there. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, by the grace of Nārada Muni, he became a great devotee, and... From the beginning of his life. This is another advantage. If you become a devotee of the Lord, then your next life is guaranteed as human being. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sanjāyate. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. One who is a devotee but could not finish the devotional function in one life, he is given chance another, another chance to take birth in a very good family. Good family means śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe: either in the family of a very highly elevated brāhmaṇa, śucīnām, or śrīmatāṁ, or very rich family. Brāhmaṇa or vaiśya family or kṣatriya family. So either brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, it doesn't matter*-a human being. So yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sanjāyate. Let us begin our life in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life. It doesn't matter if we cannot finish, but whatever we can finish, that is our eternal asset. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even if we slightly touch only Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mahato bhayāt. Just like Ajamila, he was saved.



*So these are the instruction of Vedic literature, especially in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Bhāgavatam. The Bhāgavatam, it is derived from the word bhagavat-śabda. Bhagavat-śabda means bhagavān, and bhāgavata means those who are in connection with Bhagavat, Bhagavān. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means it is in connection with the Supreme Lord and His devotee. A devotee is called bhāgavata, and the book about Bhagavān, that is also bhāgavata. There are two kinds of bhāgavatam. The living bhāgavatam is the devotee, and the representation Bhāgavatam is the Bhagavat-grantha. There is no difference. Absolute means there is no difference. Kṛṣṇa is Absolute; *therefore either this grantha-bhāgavatam or the devotee bhāgavata or Kṛṣṇa, they are all one. That is Absolute conception. Advaya-jñāna. We should not distinguish a devotee from Bhagavān. We shall not distinguish Bhāgavatam from Bhagavān. When we read Bhagavad-gītā-practically every one of us reads*-we should not think that Bhagavad-gītā is different from Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavad-gītā is as good as Kṛṣṇa. It is not ordinary book. Ordinary book is different from the author, but this Bhagavad-gītā is Bhagavān Himself.

*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya*-mukta

*'bhinattvān nāma*-nāminoḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.133]



*So Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhagavam or Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastime, anything about Kṛṣṇa, they are one. Abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ. Abhinnatvān, that is not separated. Therefore by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, you directly contact with Kṛṣṇa. Abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ. Kṛṣṇa is the nāminoḥ, and Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is His name. But they are abhinna. Otherwise how this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is being so quickly appreciated all over the world? Because there is no difference between chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and meeting Kṛṣṇa eye to eye, face to face. There is no difference. Simply one has to realize. The more you become purified by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you see Kṛṣṇa face to face. People are asking, "Can you show me God?" You can see God. Simply prepare your eyes. Simply prepare your ears. You will... By hearing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12].



*So this is a very scientific movement authorized, practical. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and you will realize that gradually you are advancing to meet Kṛṣṇa face to face. That is possible. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. [break]... still people are feeling some difficulty or some deficiency in the whole structure, and that deficiency can be fulfilled, can be satisfied by making people Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the movement. So we have got ample literature. Not only Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam-others. There are hundreds of literatures, and we have already published about twenty books like this. So we shall request... All the life members, they have got our books. Those who are not life members, I would request them to become life members, and we give you more than your money, books' worth. We want that everyone, every scholar, every thoughtful man should read these books, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. These books are very much welcome in the Western countries. I have got report just now, I have received from Los Angeles. The report is that within the three days of Christmas holidays, we have sold one lakh worth of books within three days. So our books are being very much welcome in the Western countries, especially the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So this movement is very important movement. It is not a fanaticism. It is based on science, philosophy and authority and Vedic principles. And all the students, they are following strictly the Vedic principles. They do not indulge in illicit sex life, meat-eating, intoxication up to drinking of coffee, tea and smoking. They have given up. This is Vedic principles. And they do not take part in gambling. They regular chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, sixteen rounds. In this way we are training. Not only we are training these young boys, but we are training their sons and children. We have got a very nice school in Dallas, Texas. From the very beginning they are being taught about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to rise early in the morning, how to take part in the maṅgala ārātrika, how to take prasādam. Then teaching, they are learning Sanskrit and English especially, a little geography, mathematics. We have started a school. So do not take this movement very insignificantly. Try to understand this movement with all your intelligence. As Caitanya-caritāmṛta author says, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Vicāra. Just put your judgment. Try to understand with logic and try to understand with philosophy. Not as a fanatic. Vicāra. Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. And if you rightly judge this movement, you will find it very sublime.

So we have got four branches now in India, out of 102 branches all over the world. But especially this movement is easier for the Indians because by birth they are imbibed with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



So Indians are meant for welfare activities for the whole world. And how they will do? Not by begging: "Give me rice, give me milk powder, give me money, give me this." No. If you spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world, then you will be respectful. People will like it. They are very hungry for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I am struggling alone. I require many Indians to join and spread this movement all over the world.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710908SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.22-30

-

London, September 8, 1971



Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja at the age of five years only he was a great devotee. Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the mahājanas, great authorities of this line, devotional line. (aside:) You can take your seats. To understand God and to understand our relationship with God, it is not to be done by mental speculation. It is not possible. God is not so cheap thing that one can understand by mental speculation. In the present age people are very much fond of mental speculation. In the śāstra it is said, tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 17.186] "Simply by arguing you cannot come to the right conclusion." You may be very good arguer, but another arguer may defeat you by his argument. So in this way, simply by dry arguments it is not possible to come to the conclusion. Tarko 'pratiṣṭha śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Scripture. There are different scriptures. If you simply... Scripture means Vedic, *Vedas*. There are four *Vedas* and many other also, corollaries. So by studying at home these books, that is also not possible to understand. And nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And if you follow philosophers, so one philosopher is differing from another philosopher. Just like our Śyāmasundara has brought one book, Ideas of Philosophers, different philosophers talking differently. So how you can take the conclusion? Even Aristotle, he is talking so many things nonsense. So mental speculators, philosophers. In this way you cannot.



Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām: "Actually, the purport of religion and God is very confidential." Therefore, to understand it, one has to follow the great authorities, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājana. So that mahājana, great authorities, are also mentioned, who are mahājanas. Authorities. So,

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



*Everything is there in the śāstra. If you simply refer to śāstras for the right source of knowledge, then you get. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. If you do things without reference to the śāstras, then Lord Kṛṣṇa says, na siddhiṁ sa avapnoti: "You will never get perfection." Na sukham: "Neither happiness."



*This Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he was a five*-years-old boy, he became an authority in the devotional line. So his father was atheist. He wanted that his son should be politician. He should be taught how to cheat others, how to get money. But this boy was devotee. The difficulty was a devotee is not accustomed to all these tricks of materialistic way of life. They are not interested in such things. Purposefully, they avoid all these things. Because devotional life means coming to the original position. Original position is that we are part and parcel of God; therefore our original position is godly. Not exactly like God, but godly. Just like gold and a particle of gold is also gold. A drop of ocean water contains the same chemical composition. Similarly, qualitatively we are as good as God in our original position. Now we are covered by this material body, but as soon as we take to the devotional service, that is our original position. Then very quickly we develop our good qualities, original godly qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12].

*So devotees are generally very good, godly qualities. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, he was insulted by his brothers, his wife was insulted, his kingdom was usurped, taken away, that..., forced to go to the forest for twelve years. So many troubles they had to undergo due to the political intrigues by the cousin*-brothers. Still, while he was in front of fighting, he thought, "What is the use of fighting and killing my cousin-brothers? Better let them enjoy. I retire. Kṛṣṇa, I cannot fight," he said. Why? Because he was a devotee. He was prepared to forego his claim. It is not that he was a coward. He was a great warrior, fighter. He could fight immediately. But because he was devotee, he was avoiding, trying to avoid fight, "No." This is godly quality. So in order to induce him to fight, Kṛṣṇa had to speak to him the whole Bhagavad-gītā. When he understood that "Although I do not wish to fight, Kṛṣṇa desires," then he took: "All right. Then I change my decision because Kṛṣṇa's desire is my first duty." That is devotee's duty. If Kṛṣṇa says, God says to devotee, that "You jump on the fire," he will do immediately. That is devotee: without any argument. So there is no consideration. Just like commander in the military active field. The commander says, "You jump in this fire," he jumps. He knows that "I'll surely die." Similarly, a devotee, fully surrendered devotee, means he is prepared to do anything for God. That is pure devotee.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja was a devotee and he was a child. So his father thought that "He is taking good education in politics, in diplomacy." So one day he asked the boy, "My dear boy, will you kindly say what nice things you have learned from your teachers?" Prahrādānūcyatāṁ tāta svadhītaṁ kiñcid uttamam: "My dear son Prahlāda, will you kindly explain what you have learned very good thing from your teacher?" Svadhītaṁ kiñcid uttamam: "Very selected best things what you have learned," ucyatam, "please explain." Kālena etāvatā āyuṣman yad aśikṣad guror bhavān: "You have taken lessons from your teachers." Hiraṇyakaśipu appointed some special teachers for teaching Prahlāda Mahārāja. "So tell me what you have learned." And Prahlāda Mahārāja says,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



iti puṁsārpitā viṣṇau

*bhaktiṣ cen nava*-lakṣaṇā

kriyeta bhagavaty addhā

tan manye 'dhītam uttamam



He wanted to know from the son what best knowledge he has received. He said, "This is the best knowledge." Tan manye adhītam uttamam: "I think he has learned very nice thing. His education is first class." Who? Now, "Who is always engaged in śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu, who is always engaged in chanting and hearing about the glories of Lord Viṣṇu."



*This chanting and hearing which we perform*-not chanting of any demigod. Viṣṇu, only of Viṣṇu. The chanting and hearing is not recommended for... Suppose if you chant and hear of the queen. That is not recommended. What to speak of queen, even of Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva.

yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahma*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvena vīkṣeta

sa pāsaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



*"Anyone who thinks that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Nārāyaṇa is as good as the demigods, he's a rascal, he's a fool." Sa pāsaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam. And the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ: [Bg. 7.20] "Those who are worshiping other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Their knowledge is lost." That requires a very big explanation. So one thing is that you should never place or put the demigods on equal footing with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is a great offense.



*So here it is said, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. "To hear and chant about the glories of Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Smaranam pada sevanam. Nine different types of devotional service. So śravaṇaṁ, hearing. If you simply hear, that is also devotional service. Just like you are all coming. If you simply hear Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, where there is description of the glories of the Lord, that is also devotional service. You don't require any education to read books or Vedic literature. Simply if you hear, śravaṇaṁ. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, at the end of his life, he simply heard from Śukadeva Gosvāmī Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam seven days, and he became liberated. That is śravaṇaṁ. Either you execute all the nine different types of devotional service-

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ (viṣṇoḥ)

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



There are nine different process. They are one, but it appears like different. Just like you are hearing, I am speaking, but both of them are the same, because while you are hearing, I am also hearing. So they are absolute. But still, as it is convenient, you can accept any one of them and you advance in devotional service.



*So he said, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu smaraṇam. If you have no time to hear, to go to the temple or to hear the speeches of the ācāryas, at home you can simply remember the Lord. This Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa mūrti, if you simply remember, meditate, that will also do. Smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. Pāda-sevanam means to serve, giving service, rendering service to the lotus feet of the Lord, just like devotees do. They bring flowers, tulasī, and offer to the lotus feet of the Lord. The worshiping of the Lord begins from the leg, from the lotus feet, not directly to the head. That is the way. So pāda-sevanam. Then arcanam. Arcanam means the offering ārātrika, offering bhoga, cleansing the Deity room and dressing the Lord, changing the flowers. These are called arcanam. Vandanam. If you cannot do this, then offer prayers. Just like in Christian church they offers prayers. That is also bhakti, devotional service. The Muslims, they offer prayers. Any way. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam. Vandanam means offering prayer. Dāsyam. Dāsyam means to work as menial servant of the Lord. Dāsyam. Sakhyam, to make friendship with the Lord, just like Arjuna did. He treated Kṛṣṇa as his friend, and by making friendship with Kṛṣṇa he became liberated. Sakhyam. And ātma-nivedanam. Ātma-nivedanam means giving everything to the Lord, even his body, wealth, and everything, just like Bali Mahārāja did. So,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*(aside:) Don't make that sound. Iti puṁsārpitā viṣṇau bhaktiś cet nava*-lakṣaṇā. Iti. Again he says, "All these services, when rendered to Lord Viṣṇu," the bhaktiś cet nava-lakṣaṇā, "nine different types of devotional service," kriyeta bhagavaty addhā, "those who are engaged in such services," tan manye adhītam uttamam, "I think they are the most advanced learned. That is the end of education." Tan manye adhītam uttamam.



*So anyone who is engaged in devotional service, it should be understood that they are free, they are now liberated from all sinful resultant action of life. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Anyone who is unflinchingly, without any deviation, engaged in this kind of devotional service, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi, without any motive, without any purpose, simply to serve the Supreme Lord, with this purpose only... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], without any purpose of material profit, simply "It is my duty to serve Lord," on this stage it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that,

māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*"Such persons immediately becomes liberated from the bondage of three modes of material nature." Sa guṇān samatītyaitān. Great philosophers, great yogis, they are undergoing severe type of austerities. Why? Just to get out of the clutches of these three modes of material nature, the three modes of material nature: goodness, passion, and ignorance. Everyone is being conducted under the influence of these different types of material nature. Even in this material world, goodness, that is also bondage, and what to speak of passion and ignorance. So Kṛṣṇa says anyone who is engaged in devotional service, immediately, sa samatītyaitān guṇān. Etān guṇān means these three qualities of material nature, brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. That is real stage of ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Śaṅkarācārya taught his philosophy, to develop your consciousness to the platform of Brahman understanding. When one understands himself that "I am not this body, I do not belong to this material world. I am spirit soul," that is Brahman understanding. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. At that time he becomes very jolly. So there are many different process of austerity to come to this platform of Brahman understanding, but if one is engaged in this devotional service, sravanam kīrtanam visnu, he is to be understood as already on the Brahman platform. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I think such person has studied completely. His knowledge is perfect." Tan manye adhītam uttamam.



*niśamyaitat suta*-vaco

hiraṇyakaśipus tadā

*guru*-putram uvācedaṁ

*ruṣā*-prasphuritādharaḥ



*When he heard, the atheist father, "Oh, this boy is speaking nonsense," you see, he became very much angry. Ruṣā. Ruṣā means became too much angry. Ruṣā-prasphuritādharaḥ. His lips were throbbing. He was so angry. Immediately called the teachers, "Come on!" Guru-putram uvācedaṁ ruṣā, brahma-bandho kim etat te vipakṣaṁ śrayatāsatā. "I gave my child, my boy, to be educated by you. What sort of education you have given him? He is talking nonsense, devotional service. I wanted to make him politician, diplomat, tricky, and you have taught him śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]?" You see? That is still going on. That is still going on. When I wanted to start this movement in India, I approached many friends, "Sir, you have got four boys. Give me one boy. I want to make him devotee." They refused. "Oh," he will say, "Swamijī, what will be the benefit by becoming devotee? After all, he has to earn his livelihood." (laughter) Nobody agreed. Nobody agreed. Everyone wants that his son should be hard working, just like hogs and dogs, and satisfy senses. That's all. Everyone wants. That is civilization. Nobody wants that his son should be a devotee. They will not tolerate that. If somebody's son comes to us to become devotee, I have experienced, the father and mother immediately come: "Oh, Swamijī, what you are doing?" But his son becomes hippie*-he will tolerate. That he will tolerate. But he becomes devotee-"Oh, we can't tolerate. How can we...?" You see? This is the nature. This is the nature. If one son is going astray by drinking, "Oh, young men, they can do that." But he becomes a devotee, he immediately becomes warned, "Oh, what danger is...!" (laughter) "He is going to be a devotee." This is the nature of demons. If the father, mother, are demons, how you can expect nice child? You see? That is the defect of the modern civilization. Therefore the whole world is unhappy. There is need of devotees, need of real brāhmaṇas. That is wanted. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Even a certain little percentage of people becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, the whole face of the world will change. It is so nice.



So Hiraṇyakaśipu did not like that his son was becoming a devotee. So he chastised the teachers because he was king, emperor, very powerful. He conquered all the universal planets, he was so powerful. So the teachers became very much frightened. So when they were asked, "What nonsense you have taught my boy, spoiled? He has become a devotee," so they said,

*na mat praṇītaṁ na para*-praṇītaṁ

suto vadaty eṣa tavendra-śatro

naisargikīyaṁ matir asya rājan

niyaccha manyuṁ kad adāḥ sma mā naḥ



*So the teacher said, "Sir, we have not taught this. I do not know how your son has learned all this devotional service. By nature he is so like that." Prahlāda was doing that. Because the teachers were very much cautious that "This Prahlāda has got tendency to become a devotee," so they were very careful. But Prahlāda Mahārāja, what he did do, as soon as there is tiffin hours, all the teachers gone, he would immediately call all the class friends and stand up on the bench and speak on bhagavad*-bhakti. Perhaps you have seen that picture. That teaching is there. If there is time we shall..., how he was teaching his class friend to become devotee. Just like our boys going on the street try to teach all others how to learn devotional service. This is our business. Prahlāda Mahārāja is our ācārya, former ācārya. So following his footsteps, we have to do that. Everyone did that, preaching. Preaching is required. People are in ignorance. They do not know what is God, what is his relationship with God. Therefore preaching is necessary. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was doing that. Therefore the teacher said that naisargikīyaṁ matir asya rājan niyaccha manyum: "Don't be unnecessarily angry upon us. We did not teach him. By nature he is like that."



*So this is also another feature, that why one becomes devotee, why the other does not become? That means in his former life he was a devotee. It could not be finished in one life, but in this life automatically he is trying to become devotee. Therefore devotional service is so nice that even if you cannot finish the whole course in one life, next life you are guaranteed to get a very nice birth so that you can develop further. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭoḥ sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. When Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa that "A yogi, he cannot finish his duty or yogic process in one life. Then what happens? He becomes neither this way or that way." Kṛṣṇa said, "No. Whatever he has finished, that is his permanent asset. Next life he begins from that point and he gets the opportunity of take birth-śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe. He is given birth in very nice family, either in very nice brāhmaṇa family or very rich family." In these two places one gets the opportunity to increase his Kṛṣṇa consciousness very easily. If he gets his birth in a nice brāhmaṇa family, automatically he is trained in that way. And if he gets his birth in a rich family, he has no economic demand. He hasn't got to earn. He can save the time for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So those who are born in rich family, they should know that "By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, by the grace of Lord, we are born with silver spoon, but we should utilize this opportunity." Not only rich man; *every human being should be conscious to utilize this human form of life to understand God. That is the highest perfection of life. Otherwise it is animal life. The animal life means the animals are also eating, sleeping, mating and defending. So if we are simply engaged in four principles of bodily demand and do not inquire about the Brahman*-athāto brahma jijñāsā, that is the Vedānta-sūtra-then we are no better than animals.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja was... Before his birth he was taught by Nārada Muni. Therefore naturally he was in devotional service. So he was executing, the boy. Devotional service... If one is devotee, he cannot sit down silently. He wants to preach God's glories to others, even at the risk of life, like Lord Jesus Christ did it. Even at the risk of life, he preached God consciousness. That is the duty of a devotee. Lord Nityānanda did it, Haridāsa Ṭhākura did it. There are many instances; a devotee risked even life for preaching glories of God. So Prahlāda Mahārāja also did that. He knew that "My father is nothing but a ferocious animal, Hiraṇyakaśipu." Even big, big demigods would be threatened by his red eyes. He was so powerful. Still, he was executing devotional service at the risk of life. And he was put to so many dangerous condition of life. Still, he did not give up. Then, if we try to understand Prahlāda Mahārāja's character... Now, at the present moment the teacher said that, naisargikīyaṁ matir asya rājan. "My dear king, your boy, this tendency of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is by nature. We never taught him. Please don't be angry with us unnecessarily." Niyaccha manyum. "Please give up your anger." Niyaccha manyuṁ kad adāḥ sma mā naḥ. "Don't degrade us in that way."

So he was king. He could understand that the boy is... By nature he is doing that. Then he inquired, "Prahlāda, wherefrom you have learned this art of God consciousness, service? Wherefrom you have got this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Then Prahlāda Mahārāja, explaining to his father,

prahlada uvāca

matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām



*Gṛha*-vratānām: "those who have taken it as vow to be happy in this material world." Therefore they are called gṛha-vrata. Gṛhastha... There are two words in Sanskrit language. One is gṛha-stha, and one is gṛha-vrata or gṛha-medhi. Gṛhastha means gṛhastha-āśrama. As soon as... Those who are conversant with Vedic language, they know. Āśrama means something in connection with God. That is called āśrama. So gṛhastha-āśrama means one may live with family, children, wife, children, friends-that's all right. Live. Whatever life is suitable for you, you accept. But you change Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is āśrama. Therefore it is called brahmacārī-āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama, vānaprastha-āśrama, sannyāsa-āśrama. This is varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas. We are wrongly called Hindus. This is a wrong designation given by the Muhammadans. We don't find this word in any Vedic literature, "Hindu." It is a foreign word. Real word is varṇāśrama. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa parā pumān. That is Vedic civilization, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and four āśrama means brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. One who follow this system of civilization, they are called varṇāśramī. So the "Hindus" is a foreign name given to these Indians by the neighborhood Muhammadans. Actually, Hindu is not to be found. So when we call ourselves Hindus, that is misconception of Indian civilization. Real concept of Indian civilization, Vedic civilization, is varṇāśrama dharma. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said,



varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa parā pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam



*So here it is said, gṛha*-vratānām. Gṛha-vrata means those who have taken this family life or material life as all in all. That's all. Vrata. Vrata means vow. "I shall improve my family condition, I shall improve my social condition. I shall improve the international condition or political condition." All these things, they are called gṛha-vratānām. They have no idea that beyond this life there is another life. Therefore they are stuck up with this idea. They are called gṛha-vrata. Generally, at the present moment, everyone is gṛha-vrata. That's all. They simply want "How to improve my economic condition." That's all. Individually, socially, family wise, internationally or nationally, that is their aim. They are called gṛha-vrata. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, because he knew that his father is number one gṛha-vrata, atheist number one, and materialist number one, so when he inquired, "How you developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" he said immediately, flatly, to his father, "My dear father, don't worry. You will never will have Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (laughter) Because you are so much attached to this materialistic way of life, be sure you will never increase your devotion to Kṛṣṇa. Be sure. Don't be agitated." Yes. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. "Those who have taken this vow, for them there is no possibility of increasing or culturing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no possibility." These boys who have come to me, and they have become so nice devotee, because they are not gṛha-vrata. They have no interest with this material world. That is their first-class qualification. Therefore they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If anyone wants to make his economic position developed by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, don't do that. There is no possibility. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is very kind. If anyone wants... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja wanted to develop his economic condition. Kṛṣṇa gave him. Kṛṣṇa gives. He is very kind. But that is not the purpose of developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be pure, simply to serve the Lord.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja first of all said, "My dear father, anyone whose vow is to live in this material world very comfortably, although there is no possibility of comfort..." This is called māyā. But they are trying to be comfortable. They are trying to be comfortable. Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. They have seen that Roman Empire was lost, Greek Empire was lost, Mogul Empire was lost; *still, they tried for British Empire, and it has failed. They are called punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. The things which have been thrown away after chewing, again chewing the same thing, that is called gṛha-vratānām. You cannot make any permanent settlement within this material world. That is not possible. The nature is made so, whatever you do, for the time being you relish that "I have done something, I am now very comfortably situated," and so on, so on, but time will come, you will be kicked off from your position. You will be again thrown into the wilderness. Therefore they do not know. That will be explained also. They do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know. They are foolish. Andhā yathāndhair. Their foolish leaders also misleading them.



So this will be explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja. It is very nice instruction. You please come tomorrow, I shall speak also tomorrow. Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

Śyāmasundara: ...question relating to tonight's lecture, pertaining to this philosophy of Prahlāda Mahārāja, please ask. You are free to ask any questions.



*German boy: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the beginning, that sravanam is hearing... I was discussing this with somebody and they said that reading of books silently is no good. Is this true? Does one have to recite aloud while one is reading? Do you have to read Bhagavad*-gītā...



*Prabhupāda: Reading is also smaraṇam. That śravaṇam, kīrtanam, smaraṇam. It is clear? Śravaṇam means hearing, kīrtanam means chanting, and smaraṇam. When you read, you remember God's activities, Kṛṣṇa's activities, His devotee's activities. Therefore it is smaraṇam. This is also one of the prescribed methods. But if anyone cannot read even... Suppose if he is not educated, illiterate. Does it mean that he will not get Kṛṣṇa consciousness? He will get, simply by hearing. The process is so perfect and nice, there is no need of education even. Illiterate person, simply if he gives aural reception submissively, he will get the benefit. Therefore it is universal. It is good for everyone*-educated, noneducated, learned, fool, rich, poor, everyone. Man, woman, child, adult-everyone can take part and take benefit out of it. It is so nice.



English boy: Prabhupāda, if someone is hearing the holy name in the street, if the saṅkīrtana party is chanting, and they are atheists, what benefit is it for them?



Prabhupāda: There is. In time, in due course of time, he will no longer remain atheist. He'll become theist. The hearing effect is so nice that gradually he becomes theist. As our students... Not that everyone was Prahlāda Mahārāja. Still, by simply hearing they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Is it not? Yes. Simply by... (laughter) We are giving chance to hear. Our street sankīrtana is meant for that. If somebody hears a little attentively, he will get the chance to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: Any other question?



English boy: Prahlāda Mahārāja's father, he said that he would never come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Prabhupāda: "Never" means so long he remains a gṛha-vrata, because his only plan was-he was a powerful king*-to conquer all over the world and become happy with money and women. That's all. That is gṛha-vrata. Anyone who wants to be happy with money and women, that is called gṛha-vrata. So he flatly said to his father, matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. But by good association, by Kṛṣṇa conscious association, one becomes free from this vow, gṛha-vrata. They becomes detached. That is the progress of devotional service. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. ...materialistic way of life. Therefore people are afraid to send their boys to us. "Oh, he'll be disinterested. He'll not do business. He'll not become a demon." That's it. They do not like. All right. (end)





760331SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.23-24

-

Vṛndāvana, March 31, 1976



Prabhupāda:



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam



iti puṁsārpitā viṣṇau

*bhaktiś cen nava*-lakṣaṇā

kriyeta bhagavaty addhā

tan manye 'dhītam uttamam

[SB 7.5.23-24]



So the nine different processes of devotional service. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by his father to say something from whatever he had learned. He considered that what he had learned from his spiritual master was the best of all teaching, whereas what he had learned about diplomacy from his material teachers, Sanda and Amarka, was useless.



*So the education at the present moment throughout the whole world is Sanda*-Amarka education. For a devotee such kind of education has no value. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Everyone is being educated how to live comfortably with reference to the comforts of the body. This is not education. Real education is to understand oneself, self-realization, and with that purpose one should make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that beginning with śravaṇam. As we are hearing, without śravaṇa there is no beginning of spiritual education. Satāṁ prasaṅgād mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. That śravaṇa, hearing also, should be accepted from devotee, from real devotee. Śrī Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī recommended that a brāhmaṇa... He wrote something about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and there were so many discrepancies. So Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī was not at all satisfied with such writings. He chastised the brāhmaṇa that "You cannot write." So unless one is self-realized, there is practically no use writing about Kṛṣṇa. This transcendental writing does not depend on material education. It depends on the spiritual realization. You'll find, therefore, in the comments of Bhāgavatam by different ācāryas, even there are some discrepancies, they are accepted as asat-patha. It should remain as it is.

*So Sanātana Gosvāmī therefore said, avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ, śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam: "One who is not Vaiṣṇava, from him one should not hear hari-kathāmṛtaṁ." Hari-kathā Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is hari-kathā, and it is amṛta, nectarine. But if it is recited or explained by some avaiṣṇava, one should not hear. It is forbidden. The example is given, sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. So professional reciters or one who speaks and writes for living means it is strictly prohibited. Na vyākhyām upayuñjītaḥ. One should not make Bhāgavata recitation as a means of livelihood. That is, the process is not accepted. So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. You should hear from Vaiṣṇava, at least one who is trying to become Vaiṣṇava, not professional man. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42].

*So the test of advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that one should be detestful, lose attachment to the material things. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja did not like the material education from Sanda and Amarka. He very plainly said to his father that "What I have heard from my spiritual master, Nārada Muni..." Spiritual master means Nārada Muni or his representative. Therefore we should follow the Nārada*-pañcarātra instructions. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. According to Nārada-pañcarātra, one should be free from all designation. Just like you boys from America and Europe, you have forgotten your designation. Therefore you are advanced, and people are very much praising that "How these Europeans, Americans have become nice devotee." They do not know that they are no longer Americans or Europeans. They are devotees, Kṛṣṇa's servant. This is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So long we shall think that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am African," there is no possibility of advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This teaching we have got from the greatest authority, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "I am not a brāhmaṇa; I am not a kṣatriya; I am not a vaiśya; I am not a śūdra; *neither I am a brahmacārī or gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. I am simply servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa [Cc. Madhya 13.80]." Gopī*-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. So the more we advance in the matter of becoming designationless, no designation... Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So long we have got upādhis, designations, there are many desires, material desires. But we have to become zero about these material desires. Karma, jñāna, yoga, they are all material desires. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-sakali 'aśānta'. Because they are in the material world. The karmīs, they are in the material world. The jñānīs, they are simply trying to get out of the material world, but their attempt will be failure because they do not catch up the real spiritual work. Real spiritual work is Kṛṣṇa. And yogis, they are after demonstrating magic and get cheap popularity. So they are also in the material world-karmīs, jñānīs, and yogis. Only pure devotees, they are in the spiritual world. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa:

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*So as soon as you engage yourself in pure devotional service without any material desire, without any material designation, immediately you are liberated. Svarūpena avasthiti. That is real situation of our constitutional position. So long we are not engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is our opposite number of life, not real life. Real life is when you are fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always engaged. That is life. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. So to be fixed up in that spiritual life we should always engage ourself, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam of whom? Viṣṇu. Of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Even not of any other demigods, what to speak of ordinary beings. We are engaged in śravaṇaṁ kīrtana from the morning. We take a newspaper and we read what the politician says, what so many nonsense things. We waste our time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. We should increase our taste for hearing and chanting about Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. That engagement you have fully in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. So stick to these two books or Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya-caritāmṛta is still far advanced.



*So anyway, we should always engage ourself twenty*-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Here it said, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Sadā means twenty-four hours. We shall mold our life in such a way that... If somebody says, "How it is possible? We have got other business. How it is possible to simply engage in śravaṇaṁ kīr...?" Therefore smaraṇam. Whatever you are hearing, you should remember it. That is very easy. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. And always engage in serving. Just like śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mār janādau **. If you have no engagement, simply cleanse this temple. Tan-mandira-mārjana. That is also service. That is also service. Pāda-sevanam. Arcanaṁ vandanam. Then actually worshiping, decorating, vandanam, offering prayer, dāsyam, sakhyam. In this way remain always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Then you are to be considered the most learned.

*That is the recommendation of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Tan manye adhītam uttamam. "In my mind, in my decision, persons who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully, they are to be understood as the first*-class advanced in education." And this material education... Of course, we are going to open the gurukula. Our aim is not how to make the students a big grammarian. No. That is not our purpose. How to make him fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the aim of this gurukula. In the gurukula description there is nothing, such thing as how to make the student a big grammarian or... Generally they take Sanskrit education, first grammar, and it is recommended that one should read at least for twelve years grammar. Actually this is the fact. Sanskrit grammar is very difficult, and unless one reads regularly for twelve years... But that is another thing. If one is well versed in grammar he can read all the Sanskrit literatures. That is another thing. But our aim is not that, to read Sanskrit literature. No. Our aim is how to mold the life to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. Those who are contemplating to organize our, this gurukula, they should stress on this point as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tan manye adhītam uttamam: "He is first-class educated." Who? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam [SB 7.5.23]. We want to teach that. There is no question of economic problem, that one has to become learned to get some service in some big school or college and get some big salary. This is not our aim. Our only aim is how to mold the life of the children to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So this is the summary given by Caitanya..., Prahlāda Mahārāja. We should follow this instruction.

Thank you very much. (end)



710909SB.LON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.30

-

London, September 9, 1971



Prabhupāda:



matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*Adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. Adānta means uncontrolled. Our materialstic life means we cannot control our senses and the mind. The mind is dictating that enjoy your senses in this way. What is this sound? (feedback) And our... We are enjoying our senses. Materialistic life means... (aside:) Stop that sound. Stop that. We don't want it.



Śyāmasundara: Turn it off.



*Prabhupāda: So materialistic life means sense gratification. This sense gratification process is going on life after life. So many varieties of life means different standard of sense gratification. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that he has given us full liberty to gratify our senses. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga*-vāñchā kare. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, but we are living entities, and because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got all the desires of Kṛṣṇa in small particle. As our existence is a small particle... Just like, try to understand gold and a small particle of gold. So the small particle of gold has got all the qualities of the original gold. Just like sense gratification. Kṛṣṇa has got also propensity for sense gratification. He is the original sense gratifier, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Supreme enjoyer. Wherefrom the enjoying spirit of us comes? Because it is there in Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedānta-sūtra says everything is originated from Kṛṣṇa. Parabrahman or the Absolute Truth means where everything is generated. That is Absolute Truth. Therefore our desire for sense gratification is from Kṛṣṇa.



Here is the perfect sense gratification, Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī. The same thing as here: young boys and girls, they try to enjoy senses. But where this propensity comes from? It is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the quality of sense gratification is there; therefore we, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the quality of sense gratification also there. But the difference is here we are trying to gratify our senses in the material world; therefore we are frustrated. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that you gratify your senses in association with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect. The same example: just like this finger, the finger. There is a nice sweetball or a nice foodstuff. The finger picks it up, but it cannot enjoy. It has to be..., the foodstuff has to be, given to the stomach, and then the finger also can enjoy. Similarly, we cannot gratify our senses directly, but when we join with Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa enjoys, then we can enjoy. This is our position. The same example: the finger independently cannot eat anything, cannot enjoy the sweetball, nice sweetballs. The finger can pick it up and put it in the stomach, and the stomach enjoys, the finger enjoys. This is our position.

So we have to purify the propensity of sense gratification, materially. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means,

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



We have to be purified. What is that purification? That we cannot enjoy anything directly. We have to enjoy through Kṛṣṇa, prasādam. Just like we take prasādam. The nice foodstuff prepared, we don't take directly. We take through Kṛṣṇa. First of all we offer to Kṛṣṇa and then take it. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. But you become purified. The eating process is the same, but if you eat directly, then you become materialistically encumbered. But if you offer to Kṛṣṇa and then take it, then you become free from all contamination of material life.



*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo

mucyante sarva kilbiṣaiḥ

bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā

*ye pacanty ātma*-kāraṇāt

[Bg. 3.13]



*Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo. Santa, devotees, they take prasādam after offering to Kṛṣṇa. That is called yajña. Whatever you offer to Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, that is called sacrifice, yajña. Kṛṣṇa's or Viṣṇu's another name is Yajña*-pati. So yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Whatever we do here within this material world, there is some sort of sinful activity. We do not know, imperceptibly. Just like killing of some animal is sinful activities. But even if we do not willingly kill some animal, when we are walking on the street, we are killing so many animals. When we are drinking water, in the, below the waterpot there are so many ants and microbes, they are being killed. When we ignite fire, there are so many small microbes, they also become burned into the fire. When you rub the pestle and mortar for rubbing spices, so many small microbes are killed. So we are responsible for that. Therefore, willingly or unwillingly, we are becoming entangled in so many sinful activities. Therefore the Bhagavad-gītā says, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. If you take the remnants of foodstuff of yajña, after offering yajña, then you become free from all contamination. Otherwise, bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt: [Bg. 3.13] "One who is cooking for eating personally without offering to Kṛṣṇa, he is simply all sinful resultant action." This is our position.



*Therefore here it is said that generally persons, adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram, because they cannot control their senses, adanta... Adanta means uncontrolled; *go means senses. Viśatāṁ tamisram. Tamisram means this materialistic way of life, repeated birth and death in different species or forms. That is called tamisram. I do not know what is my next life, but next life is there. And before us there are so many species of life, and I can become one of them. I can become a demigod. I can become a cat. I can become a dog. I can become Brahman. There are so many forms of life. Sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yaḥ [Bg. 14.4]. So next life I will have to accept one of the forms even if I do not want. Suppose if somebody says, "Next life, would you like to take the form of a dog or a hog?" I may not like it, but the law of nature, after giving up this body, when no more I am existing in this body, I have to accept another body according to my karma. That is in the hands of nature. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Daiva-netreṇa, "by superior supervision." You cannot order that "Give me the body of Brahma. Give me the body of Indra or a king or something exalted." That is not in your hand or in my hand. That will be judged by the superior agent of God, Kṛṣṇa, and you will have a body. Therefore it is our duty to prepare a body which will help me to go back to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Therefore in this verse Prahlāda Mahārāja says, matir na kṛṣṇe. Kṛṣṇe matiḥ means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matiḥ means consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. Parataḥ means taking instruction from others or taking instruction from guru. Nobody goes to take instruction from anyone unless one accepts a guru, or spiritual master. So even one has got nice guru, he cannot also get Kṛṣṇa consciousness if he has determined himself to remain in this material world. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. And svato. Svataḥ means by mental speculation, judging, considering oneself personally. And parato means taking instruction from others. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā mitho 'bhipad... Mitha, meeting. Just like we are talking about Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this meeting. Mitha, mitha means in assembly. So gṛha*-vratānām. If our determination is that "I shall remain in this material world, I shall enjoy this material life," then Kṛṣṇa consciousness is impossible. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. Whose decision is that "I shall try to make my life in this material world," as everyone is trying... All kinds of political, philanthropical, humanitarian activities are going on. For what purpose? To make material life happy and prosperous. That's all. Which is not possible. One should understand it defintely that in the material world, however you may try to make adjustments, you cannot be happy. It is not possible.

*So that we must first of all understand that we cannot be happy. The example I have given many times. Just like if you take out a fish from water, you can give it very comfortable, velvet lying down bedstead. The fish cannot be happy. It will die. Because the fish is the animal of water, it cannot be happy without water. Similarly, we are all spirit souls. Unless we are in spiritual life or in the spiritual world, we cannot be happy. That is our position. Everyone is trying for that spiritual realization, but he does not know. Therefore he is trying to be happy here in material condition. He is becoming frustrated, confused. So we have to withdraw this understanding that "We shall be very happy by making adjustment of this material world." That we have to understand first of all. Then Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be effective. As I told last night, that our students, these boys and girls, they have been very much detestful in the materialistic way of life. Otherwise, they are coming of great nation. Just these American boys and girls, their fathers and their guardians, they are not poor. There is no scarcity of food or any material enjoyment. Why they are being frustrated? In India... You may say that India is poverty*-stricken. They may be frustrated due to poverty, but why American boys and girls are being frustrated? That is the proof that materialistic way of life cannot make you happy. You may go on for some time to become happy, but happiness will never come from materialistic way of life. That's a fact. So those who are trying to be happy by adjustment of materialistic way of life, they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore these boys' and girls' frustration and confusion in the materialistic way of life is a qualification to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have got a good qualification, that they are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*There is a verse in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: yasyāham anughṛnāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa, to show some special favor to His devotee, He takes away his all material opulences. Dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Just like the Pāṇḍavas. The Pāṇḍavas, they were bereft of their kingdom, although Kṛṣṇa was present there, Kṛṣṇa as their friend was present there. Still they became bereft of their kingdom, they lost their property, their wife was insulted, they were driven away to the forest-although Kṛṣṇa was there. This question was inquired by Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja to Kṛṣṇa, "How is that?" Indirectly he inquired that "You are our friend, and why we are put into such difficulty?" So Kṛṣṇa replied to Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja that "This is My special favor. This is My special favor." Sometimes we do not, we cannot understand the special favor of Kṛṣṇa. So this frustration of these boys, these American boys or English boys, in the materialistic way of life is a good sign for accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are searching after something nice. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, it does not require to become poor to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but if anyone has the desire that "I will become spiritually advanced; *at the same time I shall enjoy this material life," that is not possible. These are two contradictory things. You have to become determined to be happy in spiritual life. That is real happiness. And this human form of life is specially meant for coming to that standard of spiritual life by tapasya, by voluntarily rejecting materialistic way of life. Therefore you will find in the history of India many great kings, even at very young age they left. Just like Bhārata Mahārāja. Bhārata Mahārāja, at the age of twenty*-four years only, he left his young wife, young children and the whole empire, Bharatvarsa, and went to the forest for meditation. There are many instances.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was inquired by his father that "Who has taught you this Kṛṣṇa consciousness...?" Because he knew that "He is my son, king's son. He does not go to mix with anyone else. He simply takes his lesson from the appointed teachers. How is that this boy, five years old only, and he is so much Kṛṣṇa conscious?" So he was surprised. He asked him that "How you have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" The answer is that "My dear father, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be achieved by a person like you, whose vow is simply to enjoy this material world." Hiraṇya. Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu means nice bed, very soft, cushioned bed. Hiraṇyakaśipu.

matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*This materialistic way of life means chewing the chewed. Just like the father. Father knows that "I married, I work so hard to maintain my family, and it is very difficult to keep the high standard of living in this age. We have to work very hard. Still, I engage my son also in the same way. In spite of my very bad experience of materialistic way of life, still, I engage my son in the same way." This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Punaḥ punaś means "again and again." Carvita: "chewing chewed things." Just like sugarcane. One has chewed it, has taken its juice*-it is thrown away in the street. And if somebody wants to taste it, "How it is sweet, let me see," that is called chewing the chewed. Similarly, we have got very good experience about this materialistic way of life, hard struggle for life.



*But the human society, it is also stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, human beings, they are born of the quality of passion. There are three qualities in the material world: goodness, passion and ignorance. Therefore they love to work very hard. And that very hard working is considered as happiness. That propensity of hard working... Just like in London you will see: everyone is engaged in hard working from the morning. You will see. All the buses and trucks, they are going with great speed, and people are going to the working office or factory. From morning til late night they are hard working, and it is called advancement of civilization. So some of them are frustrated. They don't want it. They don't want it. It will be frustration. Frustration. After all, it is hard work. Just like the hogs, they are working hard day and night for finding out "Where is stool, where is stool." That is their business. Therefore in one sense, this kind of civilization is hogs' and dogs' civilization. It is not human civilization. Human civilization means he must be sober. He should be inquisitive. A human being should be inquisitive to know "Who I am? Why I am put into this condition to work very hard to get a few breads only? Why I am this uncomfortable situation? Wherefrom I have come? Where I have to go?" These are inquiries. These inquiries are called brahma-jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "A human being should be inquisitive to know these things: 'Who I am? Wherefrom I have come? Where I have to go? Why I am put into this uncomfortable position?' "

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is for them who have become detestful of this material world. They are good candidates for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then the inquiry may be that "What for these men are working so hard? What is their goal of life?" That is answered in the next verse by na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. These people are working so hard because they do not know actually what is the goal of life. Na te viduḥ. Viduḥ means knowing; *na means not. These people, they do not know what is actually the goal of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Everyone says that "I am looking after my interests," but he does not know what is his interest. That he does not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. He should know that his real interest is to make his progress toward Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They do not know it. Why they do not know it? Durāśayā. By their hope against hope, durāśayā. Duḥ means which is very difficult to fulfill. I may hope something which is possible*-that is good-but if I hope something which is never possible, that is called durāśayā. Āśa means hope, and durāśa means which will never be fulfilled. So here it is, the word is used, durāśayā. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahiḥ. Bahiḥ, means the external. Just we are composition of external and internal energies of God. The external energy is this gross body, and the internal energy is the mind and ego, intelligence. And behind this, both energies, external... This is external gross energy and external subtle energy. This body made of earth, water, air, and ether, this is called gross external energy. And there is subtle external energy. What is that? Mind, intelligence, and false ego. And behind that, I am. The soul is there. I am the proprietor of this body made of... Just like you are covered by the shirt and coat. The shirt and coat is external body. Real body you are. Similarly this body, this gross body made of earth, water, air, fire, that is gross external energy of God, or Kṛṣṇa, and the mind, and ego, and intelligence, they are subtle. So we are covered. So one who has taken... Just like if I think that "Simply by having nice shirt and coat I will be happy," is it possible? Unless you eat nicely, unless you sleep nicely, unless you have got your sense gratification, simply by putting on costly nice shirt and coat, will you be happy? No. That is not possible.

*So here we have taken this... Bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. We want to be happy by adjustment of this external energy. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. That cannot be. You are spirit soul. You must have spiritual food. You must have spiritual life. Then you can be happy. Simply as you cannot be happy by having nice shirt and coat, similarly, simply by materialistic way of life, I mean a gross and fine... Gross means this high skyscraper building, machines, factories, nice road goes motorcar. These are gross. And subtle: nice song, poetry, philosophy. That is subtle, subtle matter. So people are trying to be happy with this gross and subtle material existence. That cannot be. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Why they have accepted this sort of civilization? Because they are led by blind leaders. Now, suppose we are conducting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody is interested. Very few interested. But if we give some false hope that "If you follow this path, then within six months you will become God and you will be all-powerful, and then...," oh, so many people will come. You see?

*Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. One blind leader giving, leading to other blind men. Suppose one blind man says that "All right. Come. Follow me. I shall help you crossing this street, Mulberry Street. All right." So he is blind, and the followers are also blind. The result will be that he is dashed by some motorcar or truck and they all die. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that we are tied up very hard by the laws, stringent laws of material nature. How we can become free from this material bondage? That is not possible. You have to take instruction who is not andhā, who is not blind. That means whose eyes are open, who is liberated from this material bondage. You have to take instruction from him. Then you will understand what is your self-interest. Otherwise, if you take instruction from another blind man. You are already blind. If you take instruction from another blind man, then it will be not possible to become liberated from this material bondage.

*Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatim. Actually his interest is Viṣṇu. Just like a small child is crying. Then what is the child's interest? It is searching after the mother's breast. So anyone who knows, immediately he takes the child and brings to the mother, "Take care of your child. She is crying." And the mother takes on the breast. The child is immediately happy. The child cannot express what does he want, but he is simply crying. But one who knows what for she is crying or he is crying, he takes that, he helps with the child, and then the child is happy. Similarly, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Lord, Supreme Personality of Godhead, we are actually crying for Kṛṣṇa. But these false leaders, these blind leaders, they do not know. They are giving... Instead of bread, they are giving stone. How one can be happy? That is the position. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahiḥ I have already explained-external energy, gross external energy and subtle external energy. So those who are interested with the gross external energy and subtle external energy, their amibition of life will never be fulfilled. Durāśayā. Those who are interested with Viṣṇu, and one who is showing the path of Viṣṇu, he is his real friend. One who is giving Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is the real friend of the world. All others, leading to the external energy, they cannot give any happiness to this human society. That is the explanation given by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31].

*You cannot manufacture the process of your happiness by tackling this material energy. That is not possible because the material energy is not under your control. It is controlled by the Supreme. How you can overpower the material energy? That is not possible. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. It is not possible to overcome the stringent laws of material nature. It is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā: "It is My energy. I am controlling." Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] "But if somebody surrenders unto Me..." The whole process, whole material activities, the cosmic manifestation, situation, is going on just to bring these rebelled souls to come back to Godhead. That is the situation. The māyā, the stringent laws, are there. Just like what is the purpose of this police force or material force or military force? The purpose is to keep the citizens obedient to the state. That is the purpose. So long... At any time, if a citizen becomes disobedient to the state laws, he is immediately put into the police custody. And if he is more powerful, then under military custody. Similarly, anyone who has rebelled against the superiority of God, he is put into the stringent laws of material nature and he is suffering. That is the position. Therefore his self-interest is to seek out the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrender unto Him. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That will make you happy. Otherwise, if you simply try to adjust material things and become happy, that is not possible. This is the explanation of Prahlāda Mahārāja.

*Now, next verse Prahlāda Mahārāja gives hint how one can seek out the path of Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is also given hint by Prahlāda Mahārāja. He says, naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ spṛśaty anarthāpagamo yad*-arthaḥ [SB 7.5.32]. Anartha. We have created so many unnecessary things and become entangled. So in the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje [SB 1.7.6]. If you want to get out of these anarthas, unnecessary trouble and problems which you have created, anarthopaśamam, if you want to cut down these unnecessary problems... This morning I was seeing one picture of Berlin sent by one of my disciples. So I had been in Moscow also. This city I have seen, very nice city. Berlin is very nice city. London is very nice city. But why they engaged in fighting and bombed each, other's city? Why this happenned? Because they have lost their interest in Viṣṇu, in God. Therefore I am thinking, "You are my enemy; I am your enemy," and we fight like cats and dogs. But as soon as we come to the Viṣṇu understanding, Kṛṣṇa understanding, these cities, these nice cities, this nice civilization, can be maintained very nicely. You be happy. Yajña-śiṣṭāśino santaḥ. You eat nicely, dance nicely, live nicely, and go back to home, back to Godhead. Enjoy this life and next life. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice. Everyone should take seriously, try to understand it seriously. It is authorized on the Vedic principles. It is nothing something manufactured, unauthorized. So that is our request. So we are opening centers in different parts of the world to give opportunity to the people to understand his real interest: Viṣṇu, his real interest. That is our mission. So kindly help us and join us.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Śyāmasundara: ...questions. Be nice if you take this opportunity. This will be the last speaking engagement by His Divine Grace in London. No questions?



Prabhupāda: That's all right. (end)





751002SB.MAU

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.30

-

Mauritius, October 2, 1975



Prabhupāda:



prahlāda uvāca

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*So we are trying to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is very difficult task because people are so much addicted to material enjoyment that they do not like this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, although this is the objective, aim, and ultimate goal of human life: how to revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Since we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa means God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. This is the verdict of the Vedic literature, that people are searching after God, making great research work to find out what is God. Most people, they are not interested in God. At the present moment, especially in this Kali*-yuga, they are not interested in God consciousness.



*Why they are not interested in God consciousness? That is stated in Bhagavad*-gītā:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*Kṛṣṇa says, "These classes of men, namely..." First is the duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. Kṛti. Kṛti means very meritorious, very intelligent, kṛti, this word. But duṣkṛti: their merit is being utilized in sinful activities. They are called duṣkṛti. They could be utilized for making this life perfect, but instead of doing that, they are engaged in sinful activities. Sinful activities means sense gratification. Sense gratification, they are... When one becomes very much addicted to sense gratification... The symptoms are very prominent in this age. Everyone is working very hard simply for sense gratification. And as soon as you take this life of sense gratification, you are sure to commit sinful activities. For example, throughout the whole world there are so many breweries manufacturing liquor. Especially in the Western countries you will find so many, the advertisement, liquor advertisement, whiskey advertisement, cigarette advertisement. And what to speak of slaughterhouse? There are many, many hundreds and thousands of slaughterhouse. And innocent animals are being killed all over the world unnecessarily. People can live with food grains. That is allowed for the all living entities. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: [Bg. 3.14] "Simply by growing food grains, both the animals and the man, they can live very happily." And you can grow food grains very easily. I have seen in the Western countries, they are growing food grains for the animals, and the food grains are eaten by the animals, and the animal is eaten by man. They are producing food grains. What is the statistics that the animal eating food grains, the same time, the same amount food grains can be eaten by so many men?



Brahmānanda: The acreage... For a cow to eat requires so many acres for that one cow, and then that cow is slaughtered and it only feeds a few men, whereas that same acreage could feed hundreds of men by grains.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: Seventeen times.



*Prabhupāda: So these things are to be noted, how they are engaged in sinful activities. And the solution is given in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that "Produce food grain." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni.



*So I see in your this Mauritius land, you have got enough land to produce food grains. You produce food grain. I understand that instead of growing food grains, you are growing sugar cane for exporting. Why? And you are dependent on food grains, on rice, wheat, dahl. Why? Why this attempt? You first of all grow your own eatables. And if there is time and if your population has got sufficient food grains, then you can try to grow other fruits and vegetables for exporting. The first necessity is that you should be self-sufficient. That is God's arrangement. Everywhere there is sufficient land to produce food grains, not only in your country. I have traveled all over the world-Africa, Australia, and other, in America also. There are so much land vacant that if we produce food grains, then we can feed ten times as much population as at the present moment. There is no question of scarcity. The whole creation is so made by Kṛṣṇa that everything is pūrṇam, complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. If we don't produce food grain-you require it*-and put unnecessarily men into scarcity, that is sinful. That is sinful. Everything, every instruction for our happy life and to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make life perfect

*Unfortunately, we do not know what is the perfect life. Therefore it is said here, punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām: [SB 7.5.30] "chewing the chewed." If we don't make our life perfect Perfect means stop this business of chewing the chewed. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām. Now, suppose we have got this human form of life. Now, by our pious activities we may be elevated to the higher planetary system, Svargaloka, heavenly planet. But what we shall gain there? The same sense gratification, in higher standard, that's all. Just like sense gratification is there in the society of the cats and dogs, sense gratification is there in one country, in another country, but the arrangement is, may be, little different. But the pleasure of sense gratification is the same, either you enjoy it as a dog, as a human being, or as a demigod. The sense gratification pleasure is not different. It is the same. So we are, in this material world, we are changing our body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], and enjoying sense gratification. That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], again chewing the chewed. I have tasted it in this life or that life; *again I am trying to that. So this business, when we are disgusted with this business, that is called knowledge. So that knowledge and that renunciation, or detachment, can be achieved only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is clearly stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. If we simply study Kṛṣṇa in truth, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: [Bg. 4.9] then the result will be that after giving up this present body he will not have to accept another material body. To accept another material body, that is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Either I get this human form of body, either get as the body of a dog or either I get the body of a demigod, the business is the same, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca: eating, sleeping, and sex life, and defense. Don't think that the heavenly planet, they are very safe. We have got information from Bhāgavatam. Lord Indra, he is always perplexed. So many demons disturbing, the fighting is going on, although they have got a long duration of life, ten thousands of years, their duration of life. And their one day is equal to our six months.

*So this way our life is being spoiled, and it can be stopped only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Prahlāda Mahārāja saying that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be achieved by gṛha*-vratānām." Gṛha-vratānām means those who are interested in this family life or sense gratification life. For them it is very difficult. The talking was going on between the father and the son. The son is Prahlāda. He is a devotee. And the father, Hiranyakasipu, he is materialistic person. He is interested in money and women. So this is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. So father was challenging his son, "Where you got this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" So the son replied flatly that matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā: "My dear father, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be achieved by speculation or by hearing from others." Matir na... Parata means hearing from others, and svataḥ, svata means personally by mental speculation or philosophical speculation. Mitho. Mitho means by congregational meeting, by conferences. Why? Now, gṛha-vratānām. If one is addicted to this material way of life, he cannot understand, or cannot be convinced, about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, it is said that,

*bhogaiśvarya*-prasaktānāṁ

*tayāpahṛta*-cetasāṁ

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na vidhīyate

[Bg. 2.44]



*Those who are too much attached for materialistic way of life*-means sense gratification... Materialistic way of life means sense gratification. What is the difference between spiritual life and material life? These boys, these boys from Europe and America, they have adopted this spiritual life means they have stopped the process of sense gratification-no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is materialistic way of life. Otherwise where is the difference between this life and that life?



*So if we stick to the materialistic way of life, it will be very, very difficult to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām. Why? Now, adānta-gobhiḥ. Adānta means uncontrolled. Uncontrolled. Our senses are uncontrolled. This morning, while I was walking on the beach, we found so many things, the capsule of the Coca-cola, cigarette butts and so many other things. So what is the necessity of this Coca-cola? You don't find all these things in our society. We don't drink Coca-cola. We don't drink Pepsi-cola. We don't smoke. So many things which are selling in the market in huge quantity by advertisement, by victimizing the poor customer... But they are called unnecessary things. There is no need of such things. But adānta-gobhiḥ, because the senses cannot be controlled, they are making business. They are making business, unnecessary thing. So we have to control the senses. If we really want spiritual life, if we really want to be free from these material clutches, then we have to learn how to control the senses. That is wanted. That is the purpose of human life. Now... That is the purpose of human life. Human life is not meant for imitating the life of cats and dogs and hogs. That is not human life.

*This morning there was press representative. So they came to take some information. Our first information is that we are trying to bring human being to the standard of human being from the standard of cats' and dogs' life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Cats' and dogs' life means these adānta*-go, uncontrolled senses. That is cats' and dogs' life. Just like one dog, one female dog, is surrounded by one dozen male dogs. Why? Adānta-gobhiḥ: they cannot control their senses. On the street they are having sex. They cannot control the senses. Adānta-gobhiḥ. So human life means control the senses. That is human life. If you remain like cats and dogs, adānta-gobhiḥ, without controlling the senses, then where is the difference between dog and you? There is no difference. Actually that is being accepted at the present moment. The so-called civilization means to allow the senses to enjoy as far as possible. This is advancement of civilization. The same example: Just we can be very happy by eating the food grains which must we have to produce either for me or for the animal. Without producing food grain you cannot even eat the meat. Because they want food grains, they want vegetables, so you have to produce. But because we have uncontrolled senses, instead of eating the grains, we are eating the animals. So this is called adānta-gobhiḥ. We do not consider that "The life which I am killing for my subsistence, it is eating grain, and I can also eat grain. So why shall I commit this sinful life by killing another living being?" So you cannot do that. You are not allowed to kill even an ant. Just like in any state suppose one man is useless; he is not doing anything. So you cannot kill. The state will take step. You will have to be hanged. You cannot say that "This man was useless; *it has no utility for the society. Therefore I have killed him." No. That is consideration of the human being. That is man*-made law. But God-made laws, any living being, if you kill, the same punishment. But that we do not know on account of our uncontrolled senses. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. We do not know that by killing innocent animals we are going to the darkest region of hellish life. Actually that is happening now, hellish life. The child is in the womb of the mother; it is hellish condition, with stool, urine, it is floating. And there also the life is not safe because at the modern advanced civilization the child is being killed even by the mother. This is going on.

*So we do not know subtle laws of nature, subtle laws of God, how things are happening, how things are going on. And without knowing these facts, our human life is spoiled. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to convince, educate people the value of life, how the process of living conditions are going on. Not we have manufactured all this. It is received from the Vedas. Vedas means the book of knowledge. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Jñāna means knowledge. So human life is meant for taking knowledge, jñāna. Jñāna*-vairāgya. So vāsudeve bhagavatir bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty āzu vairāgyam. When we understand... We are now implicated in so many sinful life, and we have to reap the result. We have to suffer for it in dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. We are not going to die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. It is not that everything... The atheists thinks like that-"When this body is finished, everything is finished." That is not the fact. There were atheists in India also. They say, bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet, yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. That is the atheistic theory, actually, that we are not, I mean to say, this, subjected to death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. We are not subjected. This... We are simply changing the dress, this body. But as soul, I am eternal, you are eternal, and on account of our uncontrolled senses, unbridled senses, we are changing different types of body. Suppose I am now human being, I am enjoying life very nicely, but if, next life, I become a dog, street dog, we can see how miserable life it is. Or even I become a very powerful, strong animal, a tiger or a lion, there is still... It is miserable life. Miserable life. So long we shall be in the material world, changing different bodies, it is miserable. Kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Any body, it is kleśada, painful, miserable. The śāstra says,

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



*People have become mad, pramattaḥ, and doing all sinful activities. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Vikarma means sinful activities. And why they are doing so? Yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti: "Simply for sense gratification." There is no higher aim, only sense gratification. The śāstra says, na sādhu ayam: "This is not good." Why? Because on account of our sinful activities we have already got this painful, miserable, conditioned life, this body, and if we still go on like that, then again we shall get such body and suffering. This is sense. This is jñāna. Every one of us, we are trying to be happy without any suffering. That is the aim of life. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). We are living beings, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Our nature is to become happy, pleased, joyful. But this is not the way of becoming happy, joyful, and enjoy pleasure. This is not the way. The way is different. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So everyone should be very serious to accept this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness not only personally, but teach others, statewise, familywise, communitywise, so that we may not be envious to our dependent. We should be liberal. So give them the proper chance to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that they make their life happy and attain the stage of eternity. We are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Simply we are changing body. It is a great science. But unfortunately there is no teaching in the school, college and university. Simply we are in darkness. If we keep people in darkness and advertise that we are advancing, it is another type of cheating. So people should understand the value of life, the science of life, that tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ: [Bg. 2.13] we are changing this body. And the samples of body, 8,400,000 forms of life... Just like the trees are standing in our compound. They cannot move an inch. Is that very good life? So if I am asked to stand at a place for five minutes, it becomes troublesome. And they are standing for five thousand years. Just see the punishment. So there are so many forms of life. There is no science to understand why there are varieties of life, why this tree standing in front of me in miserable condition and I am sitting in this room very comfortably. It is also a life; *I am also a life. Why? Who is arranging for this different status of life? These are to be understood. And everything is there, clear, in the Bhagavad*-gītā. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, study Bhagavad-gītā, and then after studying we study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then our life is successful. So every father, every state, every guardian, every guru, every, everyone, relative, should educate his dependent in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to give them chance to be liberated from this bondage of miserable condition of material life.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Guest (1): (indistinct)



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: (translating) Is it true that when you die, when you're going to die, you get another life?



Guest (1): Reincarnate.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not believe in this?



Guest (1): No. For the moment I don't believe it, because when you die, you are not... When you have been damned...



Prabhupāda: You are dying every moment. You are dying every moment. Do you know that?



Guest (1): Yes. I know it.



Prabhupāda: You know it?



Guest (1): Yes, but when we die...



Prabhupāda: No, no, why...? You are dying every moment, not "When we die." You are dying every... Just like what is your age?



*Guest (1): I am twenty*-two.



*Prabhupāda: Twenty*-two. Since your birth you have died already twenty-two years. Do you know that? Suppose if you'll live for eighty years, out of that twenty-two years minus, that means you have already died twenty-two years. Is it not?



Devotee: (French)



Guest (1): (French)



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: (translating) How does reincarnation happen when one dies?



*Prabhupāda: Now, first of all, you have to admit this, that since your birth you have already died twenty*-two years. Do you admit or not?



Guest (1): Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Then why do you say "when I die"? You have already died. It is less intelligence only that you cannot understand that you have died twenty*-two years. Yes. That is the ignorance. So it is just like bank balance. You have got 100,000 rupees, and you are withdrawing. That means the bank balance is decreasing. So you are destined to live, say, for hundred years. Out of that, twenty-two years you have already died. So why don't you understand that you are dying every moment? So now, if you have understood...



Guest (2): No, you see, I think... (French) You see, these gentlemen want to know whether reincarnation..., reincarnation, whether after death we come back.



Prabhupāda: It is a common sense. You were a child, so that body is dead, and now you are young man. So is it not incarnation?



Guest (2): (French) The same body, different stage in life...



Prabhupāda: Not the same body. Not the same body. (laughter)



Guest (2): No, not the same body. It is the same soul, and the body alters, you see, because the different stages, the structure... (French)



Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda, you come this side. Come this side. It is not the same body. When... When...



Guest (1): (French)



Guest (2): What he want to know, whether the end of the world...



Prabhupāda: No, first of all his question is incarnation. (laughter) You don't talk big, big words. First of all let him understand what is his question. The question is that after death how he is incarnated. That he can understand from the present life. His childhood body is dead, and he still has got a body. This is incarnation.



Guest (2): How do you understand that the end of the world?



Prabhupāda: No, first of all, your first question should be answered.



Guest (2): So he's saying that he has got the message about reincarnation. He understand now.



Prabhupāda: Now, it is clear. It is clear that your childhood body is dead, your boyhood body is dead, and you are still, have a body. This is incarnation.



Guest (2): He understand now.



Guest (3): What he wants to know is, when the soul leaves the body completely, what happens after that?



Prabhupāda: This soul is eternal. It is... The soul is covered by two kinds of body. One is subtle body. Just like you have got your mind; *I have got my mind. Do you see your mind? Do I see your mind? (second guest translates into French) So the soul is carried by two kinds of body. One body is this gross, made of earth, water, air, sky, like that. And the other... They are like shirt and coat. This is the coating, and there is another body, shirt, which is made of mind, intelligence, and ego. So when this gross body is finished, the subtle body is there. So at the time of your death the mental condition will carry you to a similar body. (Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa translates) [break] This mental body you do not see. Therefore you say that this man is dead. It is not dead. The gross body is changed, and the mental body carries him to another gross body. (second guest translates) Any other question? That's all right. (end)





751004SB.MAU

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.31

-

Mauritius, October 4, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*The people in general, especially in this age, they do not know what is the goal of life, and still, they are leaders. That is the defect of the modern civilization. It is the defect of material world, but especially in this Kali-yuga, it is the most abominable, fallen age. There are Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga, and Kali-yuga, just like there are different seasons in the year-summer, rainy season, then winter season, autumn, spring, like that. So formerly, in the Satya-yuga people used to live for 100,000's of years. Then, in the Tretā-yuga, they used to live for 10,000 years. And in the Dvāpara-yuga they used to live for 1,000 years. That is the maximum. And in the Kali-yuga they can live up to one hundred years. That is also not completed. With the advancement of Kali-yuga the duration of life, bodily strength, memory, mercifulness, religious sense*-in this way everything will be reduced. And the duration of life will be reduced so much so that it is stated in the Bhāgavata that "If a man lives for twenty to thirty years he will be considered as a grand old man." And there will be not available especially rice, wheat, milk, sugar. These are stated. This is Kali-yuga.



*So the nature of this material world is that without knowing the goal of life they become leaders. Material world, especially in this age, they do not know what is the goal of life. They do not know what he is. That is the defect. Dehātma*-buddhiḥ. Everyone, all over the world, they are thinking in terms of this body. Accidentally, somehow or other, because I have got this Indian body I am thinking, "I am Indian." And another person, he has got the American body from America... This land also we have demarcated. That is also our creation. Otherwise the land belongs to God. We have created this, that "This is America," "This is India," and "This is England," 'This is Germany..." But actually every land belongs to..., every land, sea, sky belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. That is Vedic civilization. "Everything belongs to God." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People should be free to move in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything, actually it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. But we have got restriction because we see "This is America, this is India, this is..." So they have been described here as andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: "These leaders are themselves blind, and they are leading other blind men." General public, they are blind, and the leaders are also blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Why they are blind? Now, because they do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Everyone is self-interested. That's very good. You are self-interested; *I am self*-interested. So that is... But you do not know what is your self-interest. Therefore you are blind. That is described here, that "These blind leaders, they do not know." They are especially mentioned, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. The leaders, they lead others. So, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha tat tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. Leaders are responsible because yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha: "Those who are leaders, whatever they do, they perform, common men follow that." Therefore they must be very perfect. Common men follow the leaders. If the leaders are themselves imperfect, then what will be the position of the common men?

*So here it is said that because the leaders, they do not know what is the aim of life, what is the goal of life, therefore common men, people in general, they are being misguided. They are being misguided. Suppose a blind man leads some other blind men. What will be the result? Both of them will meet danger. That is the result because... "Why? They are doing very nicely, with great cautiousness." No. But they do not know that they are bound up by the laws of nature. Te 'pīśa*-tantryā uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They cannot divert their attention or deviate from the laws of nature. That is not possible. So they are under the laws of nature. They do not now why the laws of nature acting in a different way, against their will. Suppose I do not wish to die. Why laws of nature enforcing, forcing me to die? Nobody wants to die. So you cannot surpass the laws of nature. Therefore Kṛṣṇa presents in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You are trying to solve the problems of life, but here are the real problems of life: janma-mṛtyu-jarā vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]." The real problem is that there is death, there is birth, there is old age and there is disease. This is real problem. That problem is due to this material body. Therefore our real problem is that we have got this material body, but we have no sense that "Within this material body I am the spirit soul, living. So how to get out of this material body and again revive our spiritual body?" Spiritual body is already there. How to become free from the bondage of this material body and become free again in spiritual life, that is real problem of life. That they do not. Who knows? Bring any big, big leaders. Ask him that "Do you know what is the problem of life?" They do not know. Therefore it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31].

*Therefore this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is preaching back to Godhead, not go forward for meeting again and again birth, death, old age, and disease. That this portion of problem, we have already discussed yesterday. Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānāṁ [SB 7.5.30]. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām means chewing the chewed. You have got sugarcane, many quantity. If somebody chewed the sugarcane, took out the juice, and if the remnants is thrown away, what you will get by chewing again that remnants? So punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. By our activities we are being placed under the laws of material nature-prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]-infecting different modes of material nature. Just like if you infect that... This morning some medical officer came to inject me about the yellow fever. So why this injection, vaccine, against the disease? That means if I infect this yellow fever, I will have to suffer. Similarly, the modes of material nature are three: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. And as we are infecting ourself with the three kinds of modes of material nature, we are getting different types of bodies. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. I am put into these laws of material nature, and as I am acting under the influence of different modes of material nature, I am getting a type of body. That is my material position. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. We have to change this body. Death means changing body. We are changing body every moment, every second, and getting a new body imperceptibly. And the last change of this body is taken as death, transmigration of the soul. But nobody knows "What kind of change is going to happen in my next body or next life." But there is change of body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Just like I was a child. Now I have got another body, the body is changed. Similarly, when this body will be finished, then I will get another body. This is a fact. If we cannot understand, then we have to take it from authority to understand, because understanding means taking knowledge from the authority.

*So Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is there, information. So how can we deny that there is no life after death? There is. But nobody is caring to understand, "What is my next life, what is going to happen? Today I may be in a very big position, and tomorrow, if I am going to be a tree..." Here we are sitting very comfortably in this room. Just a few yards after, there is a tree. He cannot move an inch even, and he has to stand there in cyclone, in scorching heat, in everything. Why? We are Both of us, we are living entities. Why he has got this body, I have got this body, and one may have better body than me? Why there are so many, 8,400,000 species of life and different position? Why this is? There is no such inquiry. There is no such knowledge. Therefore they have been described here as andhā, blind. They do not know the goal of life that we are part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Some way or other, we have come in material contact. Now it is our duty to get out of these laws of material Īśa-tantryā. Īśa-tantryā, under certain condition Just like under certain condition a criminal is put into the prisonhouse. So it is his duty to know that "I have committed this criminal activity; *therefore I have been put into this jail or prison life. Some way or other, complete it, and let me decide not to commit again any criminal acts so that I may be put again into prison life." This is intelligent. Similarly, we should be educated how we have been put into this material conditional life and how we can get out of it and then again in our spiritual life we can go back to home, back to Godhead. That should be the aim of life. But na te viduḥ: "They do not know." Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatim. The progress should be towards Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, back to home, back to Godhead. They do not know. Why? Because durāśayā. They are thinking that "We shall make adjustment in this material life, and we shall be happy."

*Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahiḥ. Bahiḥ means external. This material world is the external energy of God, and the spiritual world is the internal energy of God. So we are in the external energy of God. The external energy of God means although we are eternal, we have to accept different types of body according to our desire, according to our tendency to enjoy this material world, and therefore that facility is given in this material world. In the spiritual world there is only one aim*-they are all eternal servitors of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They have no other desire. That is spiritual world. So you can transform this material world into spiritual world if you have got only aim to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then it can be transformed into spiritual world, although spiritual world is differently situated. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature which is spiritual world. They have no information. But we get information from Bhagavad-gītā and other śāstras that spiritual world is still bigger. This material world is the one-fourth of the God's creation, and the spiritual world is the three-fourth. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat.

When Arjuna inquired about Kṛṣṇa's vibhūti, His opulence, He summarized,

athavā bahunaitena

kim jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyā idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*"My dear Arjuna, how long I shall describe you about My opulence? I summarize it that this material world is only one*-fourth manifestation of My opulence." Ekāṁśena sthito jagat. This material world means... You have... We have got experience about this universe up to the sky, as far as we can see, the horizon. This is one universe. And there are millions of universes like this. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, that yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnaṁ [Bs. 5.40]. Yasya prabhā. The Lord's effulgence is Brahman effulgence. Within that Brahman effulgence there are innumerable universes, jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means this brahmāṇḍa. Aṇḍa. It is round; *it is not flat. Aṇḍa, just like egg. Koṭi. Koṭi means innumerable. And in each universe... Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi koṭiṣv aṣeṣa-vasudhādi [Bs. 5.40]. In each brahmāṇḍa there are unlimited number of planets and stars, aśeṣa-vasudha. And vibhūti-bhinnam. And each planet is differently situated. Each planet has got specific atmosphere, specific arrangement. Just like the sun globe. The sun globe is fiery. The moon, moon planet, it is very pleasing. There is also fire, but it is surrounded by cold atmosphere; *therefore it is very pleasing. So vibhūti*-bhinnam. Each every planet has got different atmosphere. And each and every planet, there are different kinds of living entities just suitable for that atmosphere. Don't think that in the sun planet there is no life. There is also life. If there is no life, how Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]? Vivasvate means... The king of sun planet is known as Vivasvān. So Kṛṣṇa spoke with him, so how you can say there is no life? This is material world, many millions of universes. In another place it is said, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-bilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48].



*So we have to take information from the authoritative literature what is the position of this material world, the spiritual world, God, and His relationship with us, our position. This is real knowledge, not that a knowledge that how to live. Living condition is fulfilled by the nature's way. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. They are not concerned how to eat, how to sleep. They know, by nature's arrangement there is already arrangement. Just like the birds in the morning. They rise up early in the morning. They are not concerned where they will eat. They know there is already arrangement for eating. The elephants in Africa, they know that God has already arranged for their eating forty kilos at a time. The ants within the room, they know there is already arrangement. So if God has arranged for everyone, eight million different species of life or forms of life, why not for human being? There is arrangement. But in the human being is advised to do certain things. They must do it. Then there is no question of scarcity. There is... Everything is arranged there. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: [Bg. 3.14] "You produce your food grains so that the animals and the man, both will be happy." But if you don't produce food grains, if you produce sugarcane, then how they will be satisifed? Food grains must be produced. That is the injunction of the śāstra. So, yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ [Bg. 16.23]. If you do not follow the instruction of the śāstra-śāstra means the instruction of God-then na siddhiṁ sa, such civilization will never be perfect, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti, na sukham, neither they will be happy, na parāṁ gatim, neither they will be elevated back to home, back to Godhead. This is the defect. Therefore we should try to understand what is the goal of life. But that we do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. By their own blind intelligence they are trying to adjust things within this material word, and they are being failure repeatedly. Still, they have no sense. So those who are actually leaders of the society, they should be sensible. They should take advice, instruction from the most perfect personality, Kṛṣṇa, and adjust things. Then they will be happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Devotee (1): He is asking if we are sure if we are right in what we are saying.



Prabhupāda: Are you sure that you are right? I am sure because I am not speaking my words; I am speaking from the authority. Therefore I am sure.



Indian man (1): You are sure of somebody else's...



*Prabhupāda: No, your question is "Are you sure?" So I am sure because... Just like a small child, he does not know what is this. He asks, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "My dear child, it is called ring." So I heard from my father, "It is called ring," and if I say, "It is ring," then I am sure. I don't say it is something else. I heard it from my father that it is called ring. So if I call a ring a ring, that is truth. I may be child, but because I have heard from my father, who is not a child*-he is mature, and he gives me the knowledge-"This is called ring," and if when I say, "This is ring," that is perfect. You can say that "You are a child. How do you know it is ring?" But if he says, "My father has said this is ring," then he is perfect. Similarly, we are not talking anything, manufacturing: "I think." We don't say like that, because I know I have no value. But we say what the authority says, Kṛṣṇa says. That is our position. Therefore we are sure.



Indian man (2): I want to know one thing, Prabhupāda. You have just said that in the moon there is a cold atmosphere and there is still a living entity there? You see? But what the Americans have said... Of course, they have sent man there, different rockets there, satellites...



Prabhupāda: So I understand. Your authority is America, and my authority is śāstra. That is the difference.



Indian man (2): But they...



Prabhupāda: That is the difference. That means your authority is America. You say through the words of the American. You have not experienced. Your position: you have no experience. My position: I have no experience. But you accept the Americans, authority, and I accept the śāstra as authority. That is the difference.



Indian man (2): This I want to know the difference, whether it is true or not.



Prabhupāda: That is up to you whether you accept American or the śāstra. (laughter) That is up to you. But you cannot say because you have learned from America, therefore it is correct.



Indian man (2): But they have revealed to the world that there is no living entity there, but the śāstra says there is...



Prabhupāda: Why? Reason does not say so. Why there is no living entity? We see living entity are everywhere. Why you say that there is no living entity?



Indian man (2): But when these fellows have come there...



Prabhupāda: These fellows... Therefore your authority are these fellows. (laughter) These fellows will say something now, and after ten years they will change. These fellows are like that. (laughter)



Indian man (3): According to science it is said that...



Prabhupāda: "According to science" means American science or Russian science. That's all.



Indian man (2): The sun, you see, is a ball of fire. Nothing can exist there, according to...



*Prabhupāda: No. We have got information*-even in the fire there are living entities. Why? Because, in the Bhagavad-gītā you will find. The constitutional position of the living entity is that it does not become burned. So how you can say that in the fire? What is the verse? No, no. In the second chapter there is the description of the living entity, you find. The living entity... Find out.



Harikeśa: Acchedyo?



Prabhupāda: Huh? Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam. Find it.



Harikeśa:



acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam

akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca

*nityaḥ sarva*-gataḥ sthāṇur

acalo'yam sanātanaḥ



*"This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluable and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all*-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."



*Prabhupāda: So if he is all*-pervading and if he is unburnable, then how it is possible that in the fire he does not exist? It cannot be burned, and it is everywhere. Sarva-ga. And we find also when we go on the sea beach-within the sand there is life. Now it is up to you to accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or authority of the Americans. That is your... We follow the authorities of Bhagavad-gītā. Adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned." And from reason also, there is... In the water there are living entities; in the air there are living entities; *in the earth there are living entities. So the material elements are five: earth, water, fire, air and sky. So if everywhere there is living entities, fire is also one of the material elements. Why not in the fire? What is the reason? And Bhagavad*-gītā says, adāhyo 'yam: "It is never burned." So why do you think like that, that in the fire there is no living entity? Therefore they have been described as blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They are blind, and they are leading other blind men. But they do not know what is the laws of nature, how things are going.



Devotee: There's another question. Yes? [break]



Guest (1): about all the words that you said about Kṛṣṇa and God. If someone is a cruel man, he never expects in God, and all that we say for the man that you are saying falls from right here and get out on earth... In original life all was difficult for him.



Prabhupāda: I cannot follow him. You are following?



Guest (1): What about his soul? Did God welcome it to paradise or soul are always in the air and makes people think that he is a devil's man too?



Devotee: If a man does not understand God in this lifetime, is he still accepted by God? What he is hearing does not come...



Prabhupāda: God is everywhere, and God is with you also. God knows you, and He is trying to guide you. But you do not know Him.



Guest (1): You just said that the soul takes rebirth when he does. Therefore what's the soul? Got rebirth, soul, so that he will make always difficult thing in life and would not fix in God, or what God do with the souls?



*Prabhupāda: Soul is there, and God is there. When you take rebirth, God is also there. He is trying to guide you. You are desiring the... Just like "I want to enjoy like this," and God is giving you facility: "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like driver. You are asking driver, "Please take me to this place," so driver is taking you to that place. Similarly it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "My dear Arjuna, the God is situated in everyone's heart, core of the heart," bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 18.61], "and He is causing the traveling of the living entity," yantrārūḍhāni māyayā, "on a machine which is given by this material nature." So this body is just like a machine, motorcar, and Kṛṣṇa is the driver, charioteer. And as you are desiring, He is driving your car in the same way or He is supplying different types of car. In this way you are... Life after life, you are trying to satisfy your senses. Kṛṣṇa is giving you the facility, God is giving you the facility, but He is asking you that "Give up this business, nonsense." Sarvam-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He is simply finding out the opportunity how to say that, this ultimate truth of life. So our business is, instead of traveling in different cars and fulfill our whimsical desire, better surrender to God and abide by His order and be happy.



Guest (1): One more. If Kṛṣṇa knows when he dies that he will...



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa knows everything. There is no question.



Guest (1): Does He know that he will rebirth and then come to earth and to preach us and make all that?



*Prabhupāda: He is preaching always. He is preaching always, "Do this like this." Just like Bhagavad*-gītā is open to everyone. That is His preaching. But we are not accepting. That is our fault. Otherwise He is preaching always.



Guest (2): If man be part and parcel of God, how do you explain the evil deeds of man?



Prabhupāda: Because he likes to do that.



Guest (2): That means God also likes to do evil.



Prabhupāda: No. God gives simply facility. That's all.



Guest (1): Therefore he must have the same power as God.



Prabhupāda: Not same power, but it has got a little independence.



Guest (1): It will exists on us.



Prabhupāda: Yes, independence. By misusing the independence, he can... Just like a child, a small child, and his father. The father gives the little child little independence. But the child is not as powerful as the father. But still, the father, out of affection, he gives little independence to the child. Even to the dog, a master gives a little independence to the dog. That is affection.



Indian man (3): But if you say this affection... The child is doing something wrong, say, becoming enthusiastic, becoming mad to go...(?)



Prabhupāda: Father says, "Don't do it. But if you do it, do it at your risk."



Indian man (3): But if Kṛṣṇa is guiding us...



Prabhupāda: But you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's guidance. That is the difficulty. Just like you are taking the guidance of Americans. You are elderly man, educated man, you prefer to take guidance from the Americans, not from Kṛṣṇa. So what can be done? That is Kṛṣṇa's ill luck and your misfortune. What can be done? All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





SB 7.6: Lectures





670303SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

-

San Francisco, March 3, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*...gopeśa gopikā*-kānta

*rādhā*-kānta namo 'stu te



[O my dear Kṛṣṇa, ocean of mercy, You are the friend of the distressed and the source of creation. You are the master of the cowherdmen and the lover of the gopīs, especially Rādhārāṇī. I offer my respectful obeisances unto You.]



*tapta*-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi

rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari

*vṛṣabhānu*-sute devi

*praṇamāmi hari*-priye



[I offer my respects to Rādhārāṇī, whose bodily complexion is like molten gold and who is the Queen of Vṛndāvana. You are the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and You are very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa.]



Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare



[My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.]



*śrī*-prahrāda uvāca

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*Today I shall speak before you the conversation of Prahlāda Mahārāja and his classfellows. Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was grown up young man, he was a big emperor. But when he was a child, from the very beginning of his life, he was a great devotee. And his father was a great atheist. So the child was taught about this bhāgavata*-dharma, or... Bhāgavata-dharma means dealings with the Personality of Godhead. There are many kinds of dealings. So when our dealings are with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is called bhāgavata-dharma.



*Bhāgavata means from the word bhagavān. Bhagavān means the person who has got all the six opulences in full. He is called Bhagavān or God. In most scriptures of the world there is idea of God, but actually there is no definition of God. But in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, because it is science of God, there is definition, what do you mean by God. The definition is that one person who has got six opulences in full, He is God. What are the six opulences? Aiśvarya. Aiśvarya means wealth. And samāgra, aiśvaryasya samāgrasya, complete wealth. Complete wealth means, just like we are sitting here, say, twenty-five or fifty men. Everyone has got some wealth in bank balance. But if some one of us can exceed the bank balance of every one of us, he is called samāgra. Now try to understand what is the definition of God. There are many rich men, not only here in your country, in other countries also. So take the whole world as a whole, and if you scrutinize who is the richest man, you will hardly find one who is the richest of all. There is a competitor, another. But here the definition is the richest. Nobody can compete with Him, the richest. Then, aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. Vīryasya means strength. You have got some strength, I have got some strength, but another man may be stronger than you and me. Another man is stronger than he. So nobody can say that "I am the strongest," and nobody can say, "I am the richest." So aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ. Yaśasaḥ means fame. Lābha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhaḥ. This materialistic life means we want some profit, we want some fame, and we want some good name. If I see that my name is stamped in the history, I think, "Oh, I am My life is successful." But what is the history? Your name means your body, your photo of this body. But as soon as you leave this body, what you will do with this name? You are going to another body, another name. So aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. Vīryasya means strength. So one should have the complete power of riches, complete power of strength, complete fame. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), and complete beauty. And jñāna, complete knowledge, and vairāgya, complete renouncement. If you can find out somebody that nobody is richer than him, nobody is more famous than him, nobody is stronger than him, nobody is wiser than him, nobody is more beautiful than him, and nobody is more renouncer than him, when these six opulences you will find, without any competition, that is God. This is the definition of God.

*So everything should be understood very distinctly, what do we mean by God, not that a third*-class man comes and he proclaims himself, "I am God." This is our foolishness. Why shall I accept a third-class man as God? At the present moment everyone is very much anxious to become God and cheat you. There are so many so-called swamis. They are coming, and they are preaching that "You are God. I am God." Then who is God? Everyone is God? No. Therefore you will find in the Vedic literature definition of God. Here is definition of... Just apply this definition. If you find somebody, that he is corroborating with this definition of God, then he is God. Otherwise he is a nonsense. God is not so cheap thing. You find out a person that nobody can be found richer than him, nobody can be found stronger than him, nobody can be found more famous than him, or beautiful than him, or wiser than him, or renouncer than him.

*So this analysis, this definition, analytical study of God, is very nicely made by the sages, ancient sages of India, Bhārata*-varṣa, and they have studied the qualification of the demigods just like the sun-god, the moon-god, the heavenly god, this god, that god. There are so many. You are also god, I am also god, in this sense, that every one of us has got little, little, these opulences. Everyone, you have got some wealth. It is not that you have no wealth, but you cannot claim that you are the wealthiest. That is not possible. As you have got also some strength, you have got also some fame, you have got also some beauty, you have got some also wisdom, you have got some renunciation. Little, little. Because we are part and parcel of the Supreme, therefore all the qualities of God can be found in each and every living entity in minute quantity. So you can claim that you are also minute god, but you cannot claim that you are Supreme God. This is the definition of God! So the science of God, or our relationship with God and our dealings with God, is called bhāgavata-dharma, occupation with God..., dealings with God. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means how we can learn.

*First of all, we have to understand what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God. And as soon as the relationship is established, then there is dealings. And as soon as there is dealing, then there is some profit. There must be some profit. Just like a businessman, another businessman, they first of all make some connection, that "You are supplier. I am..." I mean to say. What is called? "Receiver." Because a businessman, one businessman sells. Another businessman purchases. "So you are purchaser. I am seller." So our agreement is made that "I shall supply you. You shall purchase." This is called relationship. In every dealings we must have first of all the relationship. Then, when there is relationship established, then next stage is to deal according to that relationship. And when the dealing is perfect, then we get the desired result. So either in business field or in other relationship, friend and friend, wife and husband, master and servant, father and son... You can take any, accept any form of relationship. There must be a standard of dealing, and there must be a result out of that. This is called Bhāgavata*-dharma. You must know what is your position, you must know what is God, and you must know what is your relationship with God. Then you must deal with God in that way. Then you get the desired result. This is perfection of life. It is called bhāgavata-dharma.

*So what is our relationship with God? I have already explained that the six opulences are there in God in full and the same six opulences are in me, but in particle. Just like the ocean water. It contains tons, millions of tons salt, ocean water, salt. You take a drop of ocean water. You analyze. You will find a grain of salt also. The salt is there also. Similarly, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, what is our relationship? Relationship is

*mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ

*jīva*-loke sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

*prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati

[Bg. 15.7]



*Kṛṣṇa says that "All the living entities, they are My part and parcels, but manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, due to their contaminated mind, they are struggling hard in this material nature." We are struggling very hard as part and parcel. Just like this hand is part and parcel of my body. So what is the real function of the hand? It must always remain attached with this body. Then it is in healthy condition. If the hand is cut off from this body, you may call that "This is Swamiji's hand," you may call it, but it has no use. So long this hand is attached with my body, if there is some pain, I can spend thousands of dollars to relieve that pain. The same hand, when it is cut off from the body, if you trample with your legs my hand, I don't care for it. Similarly, we living entities, we are also part and parcel of God, but because we have separated ourself, our relationship with God, therefore we are being trampled own by the materialistic laws, the material laws*-always pinching, so many miseries. But we have become so fool that we do not realize that this is a platform where simply miseries are being experienced. That is called māyā.



We are always in miseries, but if I ask you or you ask me "How are you," I will say, "Oh, it is very nice." What is very nice? We are sitting here. The heat is so extensive, everyone is feeling inconvenienced. But if you ask me, "Sir, how are you," I will say, "It is very nice." This is called māyā. We are always under some tribulation, always, either now it is very hot, it is warm, and after few months, it will be too cold. So either you are in cold or you are in heat. So these are miseries. If not heat and cold, it is all right, atmosphere, oh, there is something, mental misery. If there is no mental misery, there is some bodily misery. If there is no mental misery, bodily misery or natural misery, then somebody must... At least, there is mosquito misery, the bug misery. So if you analyze your life, it is full of miseries, full of miseries.

*Therefore, we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but because we have separated ourselves from God... Because we are speaking of God... Very... People are interested, "Oh, the Swamiji is speaking of God. God is dead." This is nonsense. You are living. "Everyone is living. Simply God has died." You see? This is, this philosophy is going on. Therefore bhāgavata*-dharma, one has to study from the very beginning of life. Otherwise we shall learn this philosophy, that "God is dead." So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra acaret prajno dharmān bhāgavatan iha [SB 7.6.1]. This occupation of dealing with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavān, should be learned from the very beginning of life. Just like one of our student comes, Eddy(?). He is always with his father, and he is learning bhāgavata-dharma. He is also bowing down, seeing his father and other Godbrothers of his father. He is learning. We also learned in that way, in our childhood. So from the very childhood one should be taught what is bhāgavata-dharma. Otherwise there will be unwanted population, and the world will become a hell.

Just like at the present moment we practically experience. Everywhere there is discontentment, there is scarcity. Just like from India we thought that "When I go to America and other western countries, I will see that every man is very rich man and every man has got a very nice apartment and is enjoying life." But actually, when I come here I see that there are many poor men, there are many miserable men here also. Only the proportion is different, but the actual fact is the same, either in India or in America or in Canada or in everywhere. The same thing. Proportion different. Therefore, if we want... Prahlāda Mahārāja says that

kaumāra acaret prajno

dharmān bhāgavatan iha

durlābhaṁ manusam janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*This Prahlāda Mahārāja learned this bhāgavata*-dharma from Nārada Muni from the womb of his mother. When he was living within the womb of his mother like this... Perhaps you have seen the child in the womb. At least, you have seen in the photograph. So he was lying there within the womb of his mother. And Nārada Muni instructed his mother about this bhāgavata-dharma, and the child... This bhāgavata-dharma is, therefore, without any impediment. Just like one child, four years old, he is associating with us, so he is also getting the same benefit as his father. It is so nice thing. It is not that because he is child he is not getting any benefit. Simply by associating with the devotees, he is getting so much profit, incalculable. Incalculable.



*The bhāgavata*-dharma, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra acaret... If not a very small child, but as soon as one is four or five years old... Kaumāra means from five years old to fifteen years. That period of life is called kaumāra. So one should learn this bhāgavata-dharma from the beginning. Just like we send boys, children, to schools for training, similarly, the children should be trained for learning bhāgavata-dharma. Unfortunately, nobody is interested. He was... Prahlāda Mahārāja also was in difficulty. His father... Even his father was against him because he was teaching this bhāgavata-dharma, and the teachers were complaining to his father, "Sir, your son, we do not know how he has learned this bhāgavata-dharma. He is simply teaching. As soon as he gets some opportunity he makes this education of God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to other children. So what to do with your son?" The father asked, "Where you have learned this? Tell me." Those topics will come later on. Now here Prahlāda Mahārāja, as soon as he saw some opportunity that the teacher is out of the class, he will call all the boys, "My dear friends, this bhāgavata-dharma, this understanding God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, should be learned from the very beginning of life." "Why? Let us play. Why bhāgavata-dharma now? All right, if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, when we shall get older or when the time of death will be nearing, we can study at that time bhāgavata-dharma."

But Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "No." Kaumāra. Why kaumāraṁ? Now, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. You are calculating that when you'll get old, at that time you shall try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But what is the guarantee that you are not already old enough? Who can say? The next moment I can die. Old age means nearing death, but there is no such guarantee that one shall die at eighty years old or hundred years old. Death can take place at any moment. Therefore a sane man will understand that we are always old enough because there is no guarantee. Durlabhaṁ. And this mānuṣaṁ janma, this human form of life is called durlabha. Durlabha means very rarely obtained, after many, many evolutionary process, either you take the anthropologists' theory how human body has developed or you take from Vedic literature. But the difference is that anthropologists, they say, "There is no soul. The organic matter is developing in different ways." But Vedic literature says it is not the organic matter, but it is the soul. The soul is a person, is individual, and he is transforming different types of bodies from one body to another, transmigrating. This we have explained several times.

*Just we were experiencing. This child who is playing, he is now, he has got a small body. Similarly, when he will get a body like his father, he has to change so many bodies, so many bodies. So the body will change but he, the soul, will remain the same. And now, at the childhood, or in the womb of his mother, or when the body is just like his father, or when the body is just like his grandfather*-the same thing, soul, will continue. So therefore soul is permanent and the body is changing. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ [Bg. 2.18]. This body is temporary. Temporary. Either this childhood body or boyhood body or youthhood body or mature body or old body, they are all temporary. Every moment, every second, we are changing. But the soul within the body, that is permanent. So this body, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "Now, after many many births..."

*Perhaps you do not know. There are nine million types of aquatic animals. So we have to pass through all these nine millions. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And lakṣa-viṁśati, 200,000's. I am sorry, not nine millions; *900,000. And then two millions species of plant life, vegetable life, we have to pass through. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-sāṅkhyakāḥ. And eleven hundred thousands species of worms and reptiles. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra, pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. And there are ten hundred thousands of species of the birds. So similarly, there are three million types of four-legged animals. And the human species of life are only 400,000 species, or types, as you say. In this way the total is 8,400,000's of types of bodies, and we have to pass through, by transmigration, from one body to another, another, another, another. Now we have got this civilized form of body. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that it is very rare opportunity. We should not misuse this body just like other animals. Then it will be our foolishness.

Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. When we have got this human form of body, then we shall live more than the cats and dogs? No. Adhruvam. Adhruvam means this body also will not exist. Adhruvam. It is not eternal. This soul is eternal, but the body is not eternal. But although it is not eternal, the distinction between this body and the animal body is that although it will not exist... As a dog's body will not exist or a cat's body will not exist or the bird's body will not exist, similarly, this body also will not exist. That's a fact. But arthadam: but if you like, you can attain the highest perfection of life in this body. That is the opportunity. Therefore, from the very beginning, a child should be given opportunity how to make his life perfect. That is Vedic civilization.

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam says that "One should not become a father, one should not become a mother, one should not become a spiritual master, one should not become a guardian, one should not become a husband..." In this way they have given a long list. Who? Who is that one? "One who cannot give his dependents relief from death." Samupeta-mṛtyuḥ. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyuḥ: "One who cannot make free his dependents." What is that freedom? "Freedom from the cycle of birth and death." He should not become a father or mother or spiritual master, like that. And Prahlāda Mahārāja is also instructing in this way, that "This human form body should be utilized fully for understanding our real position, our relationship with God, and our transaction, our dealings, and the basis of our relationship with God, and what is the real goal of life." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that the real goal of life is premā pum-artho mahān, prema, to attain love. Of course, in this material world, so many things are going on in the name of love. But actually there is no love. They are all lust. But going on in trade in the name of love. Love is possible only with Kṛṣṇa, or God. Premā pum-artho mahān. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Not any other thing.

*Dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Generally, people understand eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. That is the lowest grade of life. A little higher grade of life, they try to understand about some religious principle, and they are generally become religious for some gain, some material gain. Just like in the churches or in the temples they go. They ask some benefit from God, "O God, give us our daily bread." Or somebody goes to temple, asks some benefit. So dharma, artha, kāma. Why they ask some benefit? Now, just to satisfy their senses, that's all. They have no other aim. Dharma artha kāma and mokṣa. And when they are dissatisfied or frustrated in sense gratification, then mokṣa, they want to become one with God. So dharmārtha*-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41]. These are the general demands. The lower class of men, they are simply demands of the body, something eating, something eating, defending and mating. And the higher class, little elevated, they are after religiosity and some material gain and sense gratification, or utmost, to become one with the Supreme. But they have no other idea generally. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, above that there is another thing." That is prema, to love God. That is transcendental.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost, topmost knowledge how to love God and thereby enjoy life. Because we want to love. Unfortunately The other day I was instructing my students that "You just get yourself married." Now, they were confused. Somebody said, "Where to get a nice girl?" Just see. Everyone wants to love, but frustration. The girls will say, "Where is a nice boy?" So the tendency of love is there in everywhere, either in animal or in man, but the lovable object is missing. Missing. That is Kṛṣṇa. If you try to love Kṛṣṇa, then your life will be fulfilled: "Oh, here is lovable object." Premā pum*-artho mahān. Therefore Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is considered to be most munificent personality. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Oh, Rūpa Gosvāmī is offering Him his obeisances, "My dear Lord, You are the most magni..., munificent..." [break] Why? Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "You are distributing love of God, love of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya. So we want to love somebody, but we are being frustrated. But if you try to love Kṛṣṇa, either as master or as friend or as the Supreme or as husband or lover There are so many relationships. Just try to establish, find out, what is the relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and this science is being taught in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Thank you very much. Any questions? [break]

Yamunā: ...those disciples (indistinct) other(?) disciples of the spiritual master?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Every relationship... Just like I have given you example, business relationship. So if you want to establish some business relationship, there must be a broker. You see? If you want to establish a relationship with some girl, there must be a negotiator. Of course, in your country it is very free. In India it is no... There is no free love. There is a negotiator, either privately or through the parent. So in every transaction there is a negotiator. So spiritual master is the negotiator. He is the broker. Of course, without any brokerage, but he is supposed to be the broker or the transparent medium. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "the transparent media, via media." Just like my eyes are not very perfect, so I am using this transparent via media to see, similarly, because we have forgotten our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, so we have to see through the transparent via media of spiritual master. Otherwise it is very difficult. That is the process. That is the process. Therefore Bhāgavata, er, Vedic literature gives you injunction, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tad-vijñānārtham. Tat means spiritual or transcendental. If you want to understand about transcendental science, then tad-vijñānārtham, in order to understand that transcendental love, so gurum eva. Eva. Gurum means a spiritual master. Eva. Eva means must. And gacchet. Gacchet also, it is used in the obli..., or the imperative, "must." And who is a guru? Who is a spiritual master? That is also defined there. Otherwise he will be puzzled where to go. "All right, I am ready to go to a spiritual master to understand the transcendental science, but who is a guru?" Everyone will be ready: "Oh, I am your guru. I am a spiritual master." No. There are signs. What is that? Śrotriyam.



*Śrotriyam means one who has perfectly heard the science of God from authoritative sources in disciplic succession. That is the qualification. Śrotriyam, and brahma*-niṣṭham means not that simply he has heard, but the result is that he is firmly fixed up in God consciousness. These two qualifications. You have to find out that whether this man is coming from disciplic succession, śrotriyam... Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: [Bg. 4.2] "By this disciplic succession, this science of Bhagavad-gītā was learned." So you have to approach the spiritual master who is coming down from that disciplic succession. Then he is bona fide. Not only... He may be coming, but if he has not understood, then simply accepting will not do. Then the next symptom is śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Brahma-niṣṭham means he is firmly fixed up. Nobody can deviate from his point of steadiness. These are the general. There are many other definition in different... And the disciple also, he must have also qualification to approach a spiritual master. It is not that because you have got a bona fide spiritual master, therefore you will be benefited. You must be also qualified.

*What is that qualification? What is the disciple's qualification? That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Śreya uttamam. Everyone is engaged for some temporary benefit, everyone in this world, you will find. Everyone is very busy. When you say, "Please come to our temple," "Sir, I am very busy." What is his business? The business is eating, sleeping, and mating. That's all, his business.

nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ

vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ

divā cārthehayā rājan

*kuṭumba*-bharaṇena vā

[SB 2.1.3]



*What is the engagement? At night, sleeping or sex indulgence, and at daytime, "Where is money? Where is money?" And if there is money, then "Where to purchase these things?" Go to the store. Go to the shop. Finish. So that sort of inquiry engagement is not a qualification for understanding spiritual science. One should be inquisitive. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One should be inquisitive to understand what is the highest benefit of life. And that is the beginning of Vedānta*-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. And the highest benefit of life is to understand the spiritual science or the supreme spirit, athāto brahma, brahma-jijñāsā. So before establishing our relationship with God, we have to establish our relationship with the negotiator. If that relationship is sound and secure, then your realization of God is secure and sound. There is no doubt about it. If, fortunately, one gets a bona fide spiritual master and if he follows the instruction rigidly, then his God realization is guaranteed. There is no doubt about it.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Kṛṣṇa is always with you. When you are anxious for Kṛṣṇa, or God, then Kṛṣṇa will give you direction that "You please go to that person who is My representative." So Kṛṣṇa will help you from within and without. Therefore spiritual master is supposed to be Kṛṣṇa's representative from without, and Kṛṣṇa is speaking within yourself. So Kṛṣṇa is ready to help you from within and without provided you are anxious to get that help. Yes?



Devotee: (indistinct) ...anxious to learn from the spiritual master?



*Prabhupāda: Certainly. Unless he is anxious to learn, what is the use of going to spiritual master? There is no need. That I already said. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One must be very inquisitive. But inquisitive about what? For the supreme benefit. He should be inquisitive to learn the supreme. Then he has the necessity of searching out or approaching a spiritual master. If there is no such demand, then there is no necessity of going to a spiritual master or accepting a spiritual master. A spiritual master should not be accepted as a matter of phobia(?). Just like you keep some pet dog or cat, similarly if you want to keep one spiritual master, there is no profit. You see? You must be qualified to in..., inquisitive to understand the spiritual science, and the spiritual master should be also qualified to answer your inquisitiveness. Then the relationship is nice, not one*-sided. Yes?



Devotee: Swamiji, you said... (indistinct) ...after death, when...



Prabhupāda: Just like a boy, his father is very rich man, but he has left his home, so he is separated. The same boy, when he comes to his senses, "Oh, my father is so rich, and I am simply suffering for want of money. Let me go back to my father." And the father is always anxious to receive the boy. So he goes back to his father. The father says, "Yes, my dear boy, please come. I was so much anxious." So this separation means the father and the son relationship cannot be separated. But the son's rebellion to the father is separated. Similarly, our relationship with God cannot be separated. God is supplying us everything, although we think, "There is no God, God is dead," and all nonsense you may say. But it is due to God's grace that you are eating daily. That's a fact. Either you say, "God give us our daily bread," or you don't say, God is anxious to supply you bread. He is so kind because you are His son. (end)





670306SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

-

San Francisco, March 6, 1967



Prabhupāda:



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja, advising his classfriends, "My dear friend, if you want success in your life..." People do not know what is the success of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Everyone is supposed to be interested in his self, what is called self-interested. Everyone, beginning from the animal up to the highest living entity, Brahmā, everyone is interested for his self-satisfaction. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, not exactly here, in other place, he has said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. When he was talking with his father, father was instructing him that "You foolish boy. You are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You do not know your self-interest. You should be politician. You should be technician. You should be bluffer. (laughter) So so many things are there. Unless you become quite alert in this world, how you can live?" The child said, "My dear father, perhaps you do not know what is your self-interest." Yes. He was always challenging his father. Five years old boy, and his father, the most powerful atheist king, and he was talking very freely. At last, when the boys was challenging always the father, the father inquired, "You rascal, under whose strength you talk with me so freely?" The boy replied, "My dear father, by whose power you are talking so freely, I am also talking by His power." (laughter) So that is the difference between atheist and theist. The child knew, "My dear father, you are so proud of your strength, of your material assets, but you do not know by whose grace you have got all these things. But I know. I know. Therefore by whose power you are so puffed up, by His power I am so humble." That is the difference. That is the difference. "The power is acting equally within you and within me, but you want to be puffed up, so He is helping you how you become more and more puffed up and go to hell." (laughter)



*Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham: [Bg. 4.11] "Anyone who worships Me in a particular way, I give him chance to be successful in that particular way." If you want to be a first-class atheist, Kṛṣṇa will give you chance to become a first-class atheist. He will give you intelligence. He will give you ways and means how you can become a first-class atheist. And if you want to become a first-class devotee, Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how you can become a first-class devotee. Therefore He says, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. If you think that Kṛṣṇa here: "Here is a statue of Kṛṣṇa. He is an idol. And these foolish people are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa with an idol," so Kṛṣṇa will remain to such person an idol forever. And one who knows, "Oh, these people are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," for him, Kṛṣṇa will reveal, "Yes. I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is the difference.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am living in everyone's heart." Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "And through Me one is forgetting and one is remembering." So why Kṛṣṇa is doing like that? He is helping somebody to forget, and He is helping somebody to remember. Why? The same answer: ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa or God, He will give you intelligence in such a way that you will forget forever. There will be no chance to come to the precincts of God. But it is the devotees of Kṛṣṇa. They are very compassionate. Kṛṣṇa is very strict. If anyone wants to forget Him, He will give him so many chances that he will never be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa's devotee are more compassionate than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness to the poor people. Gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛṇāṁ gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. When Nārada approached Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, he welcomed him that "My dear sir, you are free. You can travel anywhere you like. You are so great and so free. Then why do you come to me? You have no business to come here. I am ordinary king, and what business you have got with me? But still, you come to my house. You talk with me. Why?" Gṛhiṇāṁ

*dīna*-cetasām. Our mind is very poor. We simply... We are very much busy in the matter of maintaining family, and we have taken it: "This is the sum and substance or success of life."

*In this way, as the other day I was speaking, not here, in San Francisco, that in this age especially, a man will think himself very successful if he simply can maintain one wife and a few children. That's all. He will think himself very successful. And actually, it is a problem for present day people to maintain even an wife, which is... An animal, an animal is also maintaining a wife. There is no difficulty for him. A dog has a wife and children, so he has no economic problem. A bird has wife and children, but he has no economic problem. But man has gone so down that he is thinking to keep wife and children is an economic problem, to avoid it. To avoid it use contraceptive method, no children, simply indulge in sex life. So man has become so down and down, especially in this age. But it is not a problem. Bhāgavata says that this is not a problem. You are thinking of maintaining your wife and children. Oh, that is already arranged. As this is arranged for the animals, for the birds, for the beasts, to have a wife and enjoy sex life and beget some children, then why not for you? You are advanced human being. Then Bhāgavata says that tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. One who is intelligent, one who knows things as they are, he is called kovidaḥ. Kovidaḥ means very expert. So Bhāgavata advising the most intelligent man that tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ: "If you are intelligent, then you should try for advancing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Why? Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ: [1.5.18] "Because this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so valuable and rare that if you travel all over the space by your sputnik or something else, you cannot get this Kṛṣṇa consciousness anywhere." Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so very valuable that I shall simply devote my life only for attaining or achieving this end of life? Then what about my economic problem?" The Bhāgavata says, tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasā: "My dear friend, because you are a part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, so your economic problem is already solved." You will get something to eat, you will have some opposite sex to satisfy your senses, and you will be able to defend yourself according to your capacity, and āhāra-nidrā, and you will be allowed a place to sleep nicely. That is already arranged.

There is a very nice story. I have several times perhaps recited that one morning... In the western countries also fair takes place, some in county, some village place. So in India there are weekly bazaar which is called haṭṭa. So at that time the salesmen with their goods, commodities, they assemble and many purchase are..., just like in market place. So there was a market, weekly market, and thousands of people assembled there. So one old lady of that village, she began to cry. Then her elderly son inquired, "Mother, why you are crying?" "No, where shall I accommodate all these people to lie down in the, at night? There are so many people in this village, and how I shall accommodate?" The son began to laugh. "My dear mother, you don't bother. It will be all arranged." "No, my dear son, I am very much perplexed." So she began to cry. So in the evening the son called the mother, "Mother, now you see in the marketplace." She saw, "Oh, where are all those people gone? Huh?" So there is arrangement. All those thousands of people assembled in the market, they have got their sleeping place. They have got their eating place. So by arrangement. There is arrangement. Similarly, there may be millions and millions of living entities; God has arrangement. If you calculate the human population and other living entities, the human population, especially the civilized human beings, are nothing in comparison to other living entities. There are millions and billions of living entities even in this store. If you find out a small hole, you will find millions of ants coming. They are also living entities. And who is arranging for their food? You are not very much busy to... Although it is your duty. That is also Bhāgavata communism. Bhāgavata communism says that even if you have got a lizard in your room, you must give him something to eat. If you have got a serpent in your room, you must give it something to eat. Nobody in your house should starve. You see? This is Bhāgavata communism, not that "Only my brother and sister will not starve, and other animals should be killed." This is not communism. Here is communism. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness communism, that a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is thinking even for the ant, even for the lizard, even for the serpent. That is real communism.

Devotee: Yes, Prabhupāda.



*Prabhupāda: Not that, "Oh, my brother is good and I am good, and my father is good or my countrymen is good, my society, and all are bad." This is not communism. So the arrangement is there by God's grace. There is ample food. There is no economic problem. We have created our economic problem by so*-called social arrangement. So Bhāgavata says that there is no economic problem. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. "How do you say that there is no economic problem?" The Bhāgavata gives... Bhāgavata means... Any authoritative literature, they must give evidence. So here Bhāgavata gives evidence that tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Now, you never try to invite calamities, but sometimes calamities come upon you unexpected. There is some great loss. There is some calamity, distress, but you do not want it. How do they come? Similarly, even if you do not endeavor for your happiness, whatever happiness is destined to you, it will come. Don't bother about it. Simply bother for how you can make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being instructed by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. From the beginning of life.



*From the beginning of life means... Actually, our life begins at the age of five years. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's nīti, it is said that the boys, the children, should be given complete freedom to do anything he likes up to five years, not more than that. Lālayet pañca-varṣāṇi: "Up to five years a child should be given all freedom." Never mind however miscreant he may be. But from five years to fifteen years*-that means a period of ten years-tāḍayet. Lālayet pañca-varṣāṇi tāḍayet daśa-varṣāṇi: "You should give all freedom to your child for five years, and then, next ten years, you should be very strict, very strict, so that the child may be very much afraid. And as soon as he attains sixteen years of age, then you should treat him like friend, not, I mean to say, so strictly." These are the moral instruction by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja advises the bhāgavata*-dharma. Bhāgavata. What is the bhāgavata-dharma? Bhāgavatān dharmān ācared yata arthadam etaj janma devādi-janmani mahā-viṣaya āviśat. Now, why this life is given so much importance, this human life? There are many other lives, lower and higher. In the higher planets there are demigods. They are far more improved, they are more intelligent, they are more happy than this planet. You must know that the higher planets, the comforts of life is thousand times more. As you go in the higher planetary system, the standard of life, the conveniences, are thousand times greater than in this planet. Therefore the commentator, Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī is that "Why not bhāgavata-dharma, cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the life of demigods? Why in this human form of life?" So the answer is that devādi-janma, devādi-janmani mahā-viṣaya āviśat. Devādi-janmani. In the lives of demigod, they are puffed up with so much material enjoyments that there is very little chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

*Just like in India still, in this fallen condition of India, whenever there is Bhāgavata recitation, thousands of people still will assemble because the benefit is that they are little poverty*-stricken than the western people. So Jīva Gosvāmī says that a person who is too much puffed up with material facilities, it is very difficult for him to come into Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Bhāgavata it is stated, Kṛṣṇa..., I mean to say, question and answer between Mahārāja Parīkṣit and Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Mahārāja Parīkṣit inquired his spiritual master Śukadeva Gosvāmī that "Generally we find that those who are Vaiṣṇava, or Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are poorer, whereas we see those who are worshiper of Lord Śiva, they are very rich." This question was put by Mahārāja Parīkṣit to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and he narrated that "Lord Śiva is so poor that he hasn't got even one house to live. He is living underneath tree. He cannot provide even a shelter to his wife, who is coming, who is the princess of a very great king, Mahārāja Dakṣa. So why this difference? And whereas persons who are devoted to Viṣṇu, who is the master of everything, goddess of fortune..." Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. Not only one goddess of fortune, but many hundreds and thousands of goddess of fortune is serving Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu in the spiritual planet. "So the devotee of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, they appear to be poorer than the devotees of Lord Śiva, who is less than a poor man. Why this contradiction?"

So the contradiction was answered by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, not personally. He took authority. What is that authority? He said immediately, "My dear king, this answer I shall not give you, but a similar answer was put forward by your grandfather, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, to your other grandfather, Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa also happened to be grandfather of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Because Kṛṣṇa's sister was married to Arjuna and Mahārāja Parīkṣit is the grandson of Subhadrā, Arjuna's wife. Therefore Kṛṣṇa also happens to be grandfather of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, and Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira also happens to be grandfather, being the eldest brother of his grandfather. So Kṛṣṇa is the authority. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is giving authoritative answer as it was spoken by Kṛṣṇa. This is the way of speaking. One should cite authority. Śukadeva Gosvāmī was not less authority. As I described the other day that there are twelve authorities. Out of them, Śukadeva Gosvāmī himself is one of the authorities. But still, he is citing the authority of Kṛṣṇa. That is the way of presenting things. That is called Vedic knowledge, that you must giving... Whatever you say, it must be supported by the authority. Just like a good lawyer. He gives good evidence from other courts' judgement, authority. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "This very question was inquired by your grandfather, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, to Kṛṣṇa because they were put into so many calamities, the Pāṇḍavas. Kṛṣṇa was their personal friend. Still, they were put into so many calamities for which they had to fight forcibly." So Kṛṣṇa answered. When Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira inquired "Why this contradiction? The Vaiṣṇava, who is worshiper of the most opulent personality, Viṣṇu, they appear to be poorer, whereas the worshiper of Lord Śiva, who appears to be poorer than ordinary man, they become very richer. Why?"

*Kṛṣṇa answered that yasyāham anugṛhnāmi hariṣye tad*-dhanam śanaiḥ: [SB 10.88.8] "My dear brother, Yudhiṣṭhira, My first evidence of mercy to My devotee is to plunder all his wealth, whatever he has got. You see? Whatever he has got, I take it away. Then he tries again to accumulate some money. Again I take it away. In this way, he tries; *I take away. When he becomes confused and baffled, he fully surrenders unto Me." Hā hā prabhu nanda*-suta. Just like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is praying Kṛṣṇa, hā hā prabhu nanda-suta: "Oh my dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Nanda Mahārāja," vṛṣabhānu-sutā-juta, "oḥ, You are standing before me accompanied by Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of Mahārāja Vṛṣabhānu." Koruṇā karoho ei-bāro: "Now this is the time to show me mercy." Narottama-dāsa kahe: "Narottama dāsa is appealing to You." Nā ṭheliho rāṅgā pāy: "Don't push me away." Tomā bine ke āche āmāra: "I have no other personality than Yourself. I have lost everything." This is surrender. So one should think like that. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "I have nothing more except Kṛṣṇa." So that has to be practiced, and not that if one thinks like that, that he has nothing except Kṛṣṇa. One who has Kṛṣṇa, he has everything. He has everything. The Bhagavad-gītā supports, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you can gain Kṛṣṇa, then there is no more necessity of any other profit. All profit is there.

yam labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthite guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



"If one is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however heaviest calamity may come upon me, come upon one, he will remain steady without any disturbance." This is such a thing. And Kṛṣṇa said, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. The evidence is Arjuna himself. They were put to so much trouble by their cousin brothers, but ultimately, they came out victorious. So if we accept Kṛṣṇa as everything, so there is no poverty, there is no economic problem. Everything is all right. Thank you very much. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...*Bhāgavatam* is... You have read that Siddhartha's book?



Woman (1): Siddhartha.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Have you read that book? What is the ultimate destination? Yes, I know the story of Buddha.



Woman (1): (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes, I know. Not from that book, but from Bhāgavata I have read Lord Buddha's life. So we know Lord Buddha. It is not that we do not know him, but we know from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. In Bhāgavatam there is description of Lord Buddha. The reason is that when a doctor says a patient that "You must starve," what is the reason? Sometimes doctors says to his patient that "You cannot eat. You must starve." Why?



Woman (1): To help heal.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore when, by nature's way, one is starving, you should know that he is getting better. You should not be bothered about that thing. Suppose doctor advises some patient that he should starve. And if you become very compassionate and give him some bread, you will be doing harm to him. Your business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. You should not be disturbed by nature's process. But if you want to help anyone, just try to help him in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That will be real benefit.



*People are very much attracted by humanitarian work, but there are so many institutions that improvement the world's, I mean to say, condition has not improved. Just like from India I was thinking that every American is rich man, but actually, when I come to America, there is economic problem. There is poverty problem here also, although not in comparison to India. But proportion is there, five thousand upon five and five hundred upon..., like that. Proportion is the same. So karma, the karma, the law of karma is there. Everyone is subjected to law of karma, and he has to enjoy or suffer according to law of karma. So we cannot interfere. We can simply teach everybody that sometimes you are becoming in the point of starvation, and sometimes you are becoming extravagant in opulence. But this is changing. Your life, this material existence, is always changing. Sometimes I am very rich man. Sometimes I am very poor man. Sometimes I am human being. Sometimes I am cats and dogs. We shall stop this business of changing. Bhagavad*-gītā says, mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. If we try this life to go back to Godhead, go back to home, that is our success. We should not bother about the condition of life. Whatever condition of life we are put in, we may be satisfied.

So we should endeavor for improving Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then our life will be successful. Sometimes you will find mother is supplying very nice foodstuff to one child, and other child the mother is supplying only little barley water. Do you mean to say mother is unkind to one child and not unkind to other? Because mother knows better than anyone that this child cannot digest. There is some trouble in his stomach. He should be given light food. And the other child is all right. Similarly, mother nature is the guidance. So if somebody is starving, it should be noted like that, that he is put into that circumstances to get better. That's all. So any other question? [break] Everyone, I shall request you to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We have enjoyed so many lives in the past, or suffered. Now, this life, at least one life may be devoted for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result. That is our request. (end)



680315SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

-

San Francisco, March 15, 1968



Prabhupāda: Yamunā?



Yamunā: Swamiji?



Prabhupāda: It is not working, I think. [break]



*...ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*śrī*-caitanya mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*vande 'haṁ śrī*-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca

*śrī*-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam

*sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana*-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ

*śrī*-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master and of all the other preceptors on the path of devotional service. I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇavas and unto the six Gosvāmīs, including Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī and their associates. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Śrī Advaita Ācārya Prabhu, Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and all His devotees, headed by Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura. I then offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and all the gopīs, headed by Lalitā and Viśākhā.]



It is not properly working.



Yamunā: No, Swamiji. I don't want to fix it. I've been... [break]



Prabhupāda: We have been discussing Prahlāda Mahārāja's instructions to his class fellows. Fortunately, we have got some little boys. So it is very interesting. Prahlāda Mahārāja was five years old boy, and he was preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All the boys, and Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, belonged to the atheist class, most materialist. They did not know anything beyond sense enjoyment. That's all. All the fathers of the students, classfellows of Prahlāda Mahārāja, they belonged to the atheist family. In Sanskrit language the atheist is called asura, asurian. And the persons who are God conscious, they are suras or āryans. So they belonged to the family of Assyrian(?) or asura. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is fortunately, although he is born of a father, completely atheist, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa and by the grace of his mother, he became a great devotee. From very childhood, from his birth, he was a devotee. Why he became such devotee, that is explained in later chapters. We shall come to that.



*So he was agitating in the school amongst his classfellows to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So he's preaching. Just in the tiffin hour, in the recess hour, as soon as the teacher's gone, he took the opportunity and stood up on the bench and began to agitate his friends, "My dear friends," kaumāra ācaret prājñā, "now we should become Kṛṣṇa conscious from this childhood. Don't wait for your old age." Generally, people think that "When we shall become old, we shall take care of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious or go to the church or temple. At present, let us play and enjoy life." So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "No." Kaumāra ācaret prājñā. Prājñā means intelligent. Intelligent means who does not waste time. Time is very valuable. You are American people. You know very well how to utilize time. But time is very valuable is also accepted in Vedic civilization. There is a very nice verse in Cāṇakya śloka. You just see how much time was considered as valuable. By this verse, you will know. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great politician. He was sometimes prime minister of the emperor of India. So he says, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhya svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ. He says that "A moment's time of your duration of life, moment..." Not to speak of hours and days, but moments. He was considering moment to moment. Just like today, 15th March, 1968, now it is half past seven or past seven, thirty-five. Now this 1968, 7:35, gone, as soon as it is 7:36, you cannot bring back that 1968, 15th March, evening, 7:35, again. Even if you pay millions of dollars, "Please come back again," no, finished. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that "Time is so valuable that if you pay millions of golden coins, you cannot get back even a moment." What is lost is lost for good. Na cen nirarthakaṁ nītiḥ: "If you such valuable time spoil for nothing, without any profit," na ca hānis tato 'dhikā, "just imagine how much you are losing, how greatly you are loser." The thing which you cannot get back by paying millions of dollars, if that is lost for nothing, how much you are losing, just imagine.

So the same thing: Prahlāda Mahārāja says that dharmān bhāgavatan, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, or God conscious, is so important that we should not lose even a moment's time. Immediately we shall begin. Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Mānuṣaṁ janma. He says that this human form of body is very rare. It is obtained after many, many births. So modern civilization, they do not understand what is the value of this human form of life. They think that this body is meant for sense enjoyment like cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they are also enjoying life in four principles; *eating, sleeping, defending, and mating. So human form of life is not meant for spoiling like cats and dogs. Human form of life is meant for something else. And that "something else" is Kṛṣṇa conscious or God consciousness because without human form of life, no other body can understand what is God, what is this world, what I am, wherefrom I have come, where I have to go. These things are meant for human life. So he says that "From very childhood..." Actually this is essential. From childhood, in the schools, in the colleges, this bhāgavata*-dharma, or the occupation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, should be introduced. This is necessary, but they do not understand. They think that this spot life is all, and this body is all, and there is no other life. Next life, they do not believe it. This is all due to ignorance. Life is eternity, and this spot life is preparation for the next life.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ. Durlabhaṁ means very rarely obtained. Our modern anthropologists, they also admit it, that after many evolution of different species of life, this human form of life is obtained. But they do not know what is meant for. That is answered here, Prahlāda Mahārāja. We have to pass through many millions of species of life. There are 900,000 species of life in the water. Eleven hundred thousand species of life Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvarā means plants and trees. Two million species of life. And jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. And worms, they are 1,100,000 species of life. Kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. And birds, they are one million species of life. And then four-legged beasts, they are three million species of life. And human form of life, beginning from the most uncivilized to the civilized form of life, they are only 400,000 species of life. So in consideration of all the total species of life, human form of life is very small. Only four hundred. Out of 8,400,000's of species of life, human form of life is only 400,000. Out of that, there are many uncivilized.

So the Aryan family, they are considered as advanced, civilized, so, with full developed consciousness, and therefore this is the opportunity for understanding the value of life. So

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam (arthadam)

[SB 7.6.1]



Adhruvam arthadam. He says that "This life is very valuable, very rare, but it is also temporary." Because it is very rarely obtained, it is not permanent. It is also temporary like cats and dogs. They have got their temporary body. But the one significance of this body is arthadam. Arthadam means you can derive the greatest value in this life. Arthadam. Artha means money, and paramartha means spiritual consciousness. That is also artha. So one should be engaged for earning money because the body requires material necessities. That's all right. But his real attention should be how to achieve spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is arthadam. That is the value of life.



yathā hi puruṣasyeha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānām

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt



*And what is that spiritual consciousness? Puruṣasyeha viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam. Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu means the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Lord is called Viṣṇu, all*-pervading, the word used here, viṣṇoḥ. Viṣṇu means who is all-pervading at the same time He's a person. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is person; *at the same time, He is all*-pervading. How it is? In our material conception we cannot imagine, but there is a proof in your presence.



*Just like the sun. Sun is localized. You can see every day. Sun globe is located at a certain place in the outer space, but the sunshine is all*-pervading. Sun is present everywhere by his all-pervasive sunshine. Similarly, Viṣṇu, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is in His abode which is called Viṣṇuloka, or the kingdom of God, or Kṛṣṇaloka, whatever you may understand. He has got His particular abode. But at the same time, by His different energies, He is all-pervading. There is another example of this all-pervasiveness of God in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa that "Just like fire is located in one place, but its light and heat is distributed long, long distant, similarly, whatever we see within this cosmic manifestation, that is diffusion of the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So Prahlāda Mahārāja points out that

yathā hi puruṣasyeha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānām

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt



*One should be Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious, why? Because He is the master of your self and the most intimate friend, suhṛt. Yathā ātmeśvara. Ātmeśvara means we are individual self and He is the original Superself. Just like we, for the present we like this body, we love this body...why? Because the body is the production of the soul. Without soul, there is no body. Just like a child born. If the soul is there, the child will grow. If the child is born dead, however chemically you can keep up that body, it will never grow. So that is the significance of the presence of the soul. So as the body grows on account of presence of the soul, similarly, the soul, individual soul, is the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities, they are My part and parcels." We are part and parcel of God. You can study. You can understand what is the nature of God by studying yourself because you are sample God. You are miniature, small God. Just like particle of gold is also small particle, it is also gold, similarly, because we are part and parcel of God, therefore there all the ingredients, all the chemical compounds in the God, we have got. (end)





680316SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1 Excerpt

-

San Francisco, March 16, 1968



*Prabhupāda: The soul is the production of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore ultimately, He is our dearmost friend. We are trying to love somebody. That somebody is a perverted reflection of Kṛṣṇa. Actually... Just like the child. The child is searching after the mother's breast. And it is crying. If somebody takes the child, he's not satisfied. Because he cannot express that "I want my mother." Similarly, we are hankering after loving Kṛṣṇa in a perverted way. But because we have no information of Kṛṣṇa, we have forgotten our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are loving this body, that body. Ultimately, I am loving a cat or dog or something else. The love is there, but we have misplaced the love. As soon as we replace our love to Kṛṣṇa, then our perfection of love is manifested and our perfection of life is also achieved. Lord Caitanya preached this philosophy that premā pum*-artho mahān. Prema, prema means love. His philosophy, Lord Caitanya's philosophy, is ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ. Vrajeśa-tanayaḥ means Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa appeared as the son of the king of Vraja, Vṛndāvana. Therefore And tanaya means son. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His propagation, His teaching, the substance of His teaching is that Kṛṣṇa is the most worshipable object. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam.



*And as He is worshipable, similarly His place, the Vṛndāvana, where He appeared, that is also worshipable. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa*-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇā yā kalpitā. And the method of worship, the best method of worship of Kṛṣṇa was exhibited by the gopīs. Now what were the worshipable method of the gopīs? They were not very learned scholars or Vedantists. Or theosophists or mental speculators. None. They were ordinary village girls. And that also, not coming of a very high royal family or brāhmaṇa family. They were cowherdsmen. So their fathers were not very rich, but they had several cows, that's all. So the gopīs' method of Kṛṣṇa worship was that they could not forget Kṛṣṇa even for a moment. That was their qualification. There are many verses about the mental situation of the gopīs. I shall just try to explain you about their mentality, how they are loving Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa used to take His cows to the forest for pasturing. And the gopīs, when Kṛṣṇa was away from the village, the gopīs were thinking, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, foot is so soft, and He's walking barefooted on the stones and chips of stones, and they are pricking His foot. Oh, how much He's suffering!" In this way they were thinking and crying. Kṛṣṇa is away from the village and is walking in the forest, and the gopīs were thinking at home that, "How much troublesome the walking is that He has gone out." In this way there are so many. So while they were at home, while they were cooking or they were feeding their children, always they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That was their qualification. That's all. They were so much absorbed in thoughts of Kṛṣṇa that not a single moment were without Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja*-vadhū-vargeṇā yā kalpitā. There is no better method of worship than it was conceived by the gopīs. And what was that? The gopīs were twenty four hours, they were always Kṛṣṇa conscious. They were requesting Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, many, many yogis, many, many saintly persons, they go to the forest and meditate upon Your lotus feet. But they cannot fix up. They meditate Your lotus feet, but still, they think of something else. They are not perfect. Their meditation fails. But in our case Your lotus feet is so much fixed up in our heart that we are thinking of You and we cannot discharge our family duties. So kindly get out of our heart." Just see. "Please excuse. Kindly go out of our heart so that I, we can do our duties." That was their prayer. Therefore that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, ideal Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have to mold your life in such a way that you cannot think of Kṛṣṇa, you cannot think but Kṛṣṇa, only. The gopīs were doing their duties. They were household..., housewife, girls. They had their husbands, children. But in spite of all these things, they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

*So this is the instruction in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Kṛṣṇa says that "Always be thinking of Me in your mind." Man-manā. Manaḥ means mind. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, "and become My devotee. Don't think Me as your enemy." Sometimes Kṛṣṇa is thought of as enemy. That kind of thought is useless. Not useless. Of course, the enemies who thought of Kṛṣṇa always, they also got salvation. Because, after all, they thought of Kṛṣṇa. But not in that way. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, "Just becoming My lover and devotee." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, "Just worship Me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "and offer your obeisances unto Me. In this way," mām evaiṣyasi, "You'll come back to Me," asaṁśayaḥ, "without any doubt." So this is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching that in this human form of life, especially from childhood, people should be taught God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, somehow or other. Then their life will be successful. And don't spoil your life otherwise... This is the instruction, we have begun and we shall continue it. If you please come, we shall talk further. If any... (end)



680508SB.BOS

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

--

Boston, May 8, 1968



Prabhupāda:



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*This verse we have been discussing for the last three days. So Prahlāda Mahārāja's argument is that everyone, if he is intelligent... If he's a rascal, that is a different thing. Because the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness is not meant for the rascals. It is meant for the intellectual person. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa caturā. Unless one is very intelligent, he cannot be God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore this word is used, prājñā. Prājñā means... Pra means prakṛṣṭa*-rūpena, specifically. Jñā, jñā means a man of intellect. So Bhāgavata-dharma, what is that Bhāgavata-dharma? That I have already explained. Again we can repeat. Bhāgavata-dharma means to reestablish our lost relationship with God. This is Bhāga-vata.



*Therefore in every section of human society there is attempt to reestablish our relationship with God. But at the present moment there is systematic propaganda to forget whatever little relationship we have got. We do not understand what is the science of God, but still, people know that there is something like God. So we are just trying. This is the symptom of this Kali*-yuga. They will manufacture objects of worship, but not worship God. They will present so many false god, but they will not worship the real God. One has to worship something. Because it is my nature. I worship. Somebody worships God and somebody worships dog. Because I cannot remain without worshiping. Worshiping means loving. Without love there is no worship, there is no question.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this bhāgavata*-dharma... Bhāgavata-dharma means to revive our lost relationship with God. We should know what is God. We should know what we are, living entities. We should know what is this material nature. We should know what is time, and we should know what are our real activities. Why don't you come forward? The sunshine is troubling you. So come forward. Yes. Sit comfortably. So bhāgavata-dharma means it is scientific knowledge. It is not sentiment. Religion without philosophical understanding is sentiment. And philosophy without understanding of God is mental speculation. So we should not be both, neither sentimentalist nor dry mental speculator. There is a class of mental speculators, they're writing volumes of books but there is no substance. And there are some religious fanatics, but they do not know, do not understand what is religion. So these two classes of men are now very prominent at the present moment. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, or Bhagavad-gītā, if anyone is intelligent he'll know that it is combination of religious sentiment plus philosophy. To understand religion on the basis of philosophy and logic. Not blindly accepting. So this is called bhāgavata-dharma.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that from childhood this should be instructed. Because nobody is caring to teach this science of God from childhood. Therefore the present population, Godless population is the cause of all disturbances. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find varṇa-saṅkara. Varṇa-saṅkara means population, unwanted population. What is the use of this population? Simply for living? The Bhāgavata says does the tree not live? The tree also lives for thousands of years. So do you mean to say living is very important thing? No. There are many trees they are living for thousands of years. So what is the value of living? If you say, "Oh, the tree lives, but it cannot breathe." Breathing. The Bhāgavata says the bellow, it breathes very nicely. "Well, the bellow can breathe, but it cannot eat." "Oh, the dogs and hogs, they do not eat?" There are so many questions and answers in the Bhāgavata. But actually, population, important population means who are conversant with the science of God. That is important population. Otherwise, what is the use of living? Śaṅkarācārya lived for 32 years, and Lord Jesus Christ, I think, he also lived similarly. Lord Caitanya lived for 48 years. But their philosophy and God consciousness is so important, they are still living. Kalpante sthayinā guṇāḥ. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa vidyanti. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa vidyanti. Āyuṣaḥ means this duration of life, it can be finished at any moment, but kalpante sthayinā guṇāḥ. But if you are a qualified man then your qualities will be remembered for many, many thousands of years. Therefore live for the best qualities, to acquire the best qualities, God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends to the world society that from the very beginning of childhood this science should be taught. Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. Now this human form of life is very important. Śrīdhara Swami comments on this, (reads Sanskrit commentary) kaumāra ity ādinā, ihaiva mānuṣa*-janmani dharmān ācaret. Now question may be why in this birth of human life it is so much stressed? The answer is durlabham. Durlabham means the intelligence that you have got now in this form of body, it is very rare. The intelligence, how it is rare? How it is important? Now here we are discussing about science of God, maybe very small number of men we are sitting, but we are all, because we are human being we are able to discuss. But we cannot call a cat or dog and sit down here and understand the science of God. That is not possible. So except human body, in any other form of life there is no possibility. You can become a tiger or a lion, very powerful, but it is a useless life. Useless life. I had correspondence with one gentleman in England. He says that "We want to be tiger." So I answered "What is the use of tiger?" Tigers, to become tiger... Tiger is very important animal? It is, rather, enemy of the human society. So actually, the present society is producing tigers or hogs or dogs or camels, like that. In the form of human body. The real human body, the intelligence should be utilized to understand God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tad api janma.

*Why... Somebody may say that "Let me enjoy this life. I shall try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness next life, or after enjoying life in my youthhood, then we shall try." So Prahlāda Mahārāja answers, "No, don't remain confident that you shall live long or remain confident that you are getting next life also human form of life." No. Adhruvam. There is no certainty. But if you begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life and try to achieve the result to some extent, even one percent, two percent, your life, next life is guaranteed a human form of life. It is such a nice thing. Because it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga bhraṣṭo sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. One who cannot fulfill the entire course of understanding the science of God, but because he has begun to understand it, never mind he has understood it one percent, two percent, ten percent Not ten percent. Unless one understands the science cent percent, he does not get liberation. But even one percent. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find this stanza, that even little percentage of God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is attempted, then you can be saved from the greatest danger.

*There are many instances in the śāstra, Ajāmila. Simply he was most, I mean to say, a sinful man. All through his life he acted simply sinfully, but at the end of his life, just at the point of death, he remembered Nārāyaṇa. That also in connection with his youngest son. And because he uttered the name "Nārāyaṇa," he remembered Nārāyaṇa, and simply by remembering Nārāyaṇa he was, I mean to say, liberated. So there were many instances. So svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata, Nārada has instructed Vyāsadeva, tyaktvā sva dharmaṁ caraṇāmbhujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi. Nārada, he's instructing. Vyāsadeva is disciple of Nārada Muni. So Vyāsadeva was not very happy, even he wrote so many books. Even Vedānta-sūtra. He wrote Mahābhārata, he wrote all the Purāṇas, and he wrote the philosophy, Vedānta-sūtra, and still, he was feeling unhappy. So at that time Nārada Muni came and instructed him, and he asked that "Why I'm not feeling happy? In spite of working so hard about writing all these different kinds of Vedic literature, why I am not feeling happy?" So Nārada Muni instructed him, "Because you have not very elaborately discussed about the science of God. You have simply superficially given some moral instruction to the society, some social instruction, but Some political instruction, Mahābhārata." Just like Mahābhārata, you'll find first-class political discussion, first-class social, economics, everything is there. But still, there is Bhagavad-gītā. So Vyāsadeva has done, but still he was not feeling. So at that time Nārada Muni instructed him that "You simply describe about God, about Kṛṣṇa." Then he wrote this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In that connection he said, tyaktvā sva dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17].

*Just like many students come to us, and they stick for some days, again go away. Not very much, but I have got experience. Some boys came, three, four boys. They are no longer with us. They have left us. Now Nārada Muni said tyaktvā sva*-dharmam. Sva-dharmam means everyone has got his specific activity, duty. So Nārada Muni says even if Of course, this specific duty is in reference with the system of varṇa and āśrama. Just like somebody is brāhmaṇa, executing the duties of abrāhmaṇa, somebody is executing the duty of a kṣatriya, somebody is executing the duty of avaiśya, or a śūdra, or a brahmacārī, or a sannyāsī, vānaprastha. There are eight divisions. So Nārada Muni says that if one gives up his occupational duty, specific duty either as a brahmacārī or sannyāsī or gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya, he gives up Why he gives up? Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer [SB 1.5.17]. By sentiment or by association, he becomes encouraged that "I shall take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I shall give up everything." So Nārada Muni says, "Oh, it is a very good thing. Even if he's sentimental."Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer [SB 1.5.17]. And because one comes by sentiment to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness he cannot stick. So bhajann apakvo 'tha. That means, bhajann, when the execution of devotional service is not complete, apakvo, immature Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17]. Or even falls down.

*Suppose a brahmacārī, he's supposed to follow the laws of celibacy, but he could not. He falls down. There are so many rules and regulations. And fall down.(?) He began the execution of devotional service, but some way or other māyā catches him and he falls down. Nārada Muni says, "Oh, there is no loss for him."Yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ ko vā artha āptaḥ abhajatāṁ sva*-dharmataḥ. Nārada Muni says that even if he falls down he does not lose anything. But what does he gain if one is engaged in his occupational duty as a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, or this or that? If he sticks to his occupational duty and does not understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what does he gain? He does not gain anything. Suppose if one follows the rules and regulations of a brāhmaṇa. His next life he may get a brāhmaṇa birth or a very, I mean to say, learned family. Like that he can get. But that is not a very good gain. But Nārada Muni says if one has begun the occupational duty of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, giving up all other occupational duties, even if he falls down, that one percent, two percent, remains as his asset so that he will be able to begin from next life again Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is so nice that even one falls down, it will not Whatever he has done, whatever you have done, that is your permanent asset. Permanent because it is spiritual. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spiritual. As spirit soul is eternal, permanent, similarly, any activity on the spiritual platform is eternal. It will never be lost. So there are many instructions like this.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is also stressing on that point, that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. Although this human form of life is not very long, but you can get the very nice result out of it. Arthadam. Artha. Artha means profit. So real profit is spiritual profit. That is real profit because that will never be lost. And material profit, suppose you become MA, Ph D, Doctor, or Rockefeller, or Ford, or something like that. You gain so many material things. But as soon as this body is finished, everything is finished. You are no more Rockefeller, you are no more MA. Suppose you get again a birth in a human family, so you have to again begin your education to come to the point of MA. Or you have to begin your life to become again Rockefeller. This Rockefeller estate is left here. You have to begin again. You do not know whether you are going to be Rockefeller or some feller. But at least, it is certain that whatever material gain you acquire, that will be finished with this body. That is a fact. So you have to begin again. But if you take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness even one percent, that will never be finished. It will give you... Just like seed. A seed if you sow on the earth and you put little water, it will grow. It will grow. It will never be stopped. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



Bīja means seed. So hundreds and thousands and millions of living entities are rotating in many places in the kingdom of God, both material and spiritual. There are so many planets, and each planet there are so many countries, towns, cities, life, varieties of... So the living entity is circumambulating in different kinds of species of life, different kinds of countries, places, planets. That is their material business. So in this way, while traveling, if he meets by chance a devotee of God, Kṛṣṇa, and if he gets that seed... Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona... That is obtained fortunately. Fortunately. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Fortunate, this very word is used, fortunate. Nobody can capture the seed of God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But it is very... It is meant for the fortunate. So all right, he may be fortunate, but devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa and God, they are trying to make others fortunate. They are approaching, canvassing. So if anybody is intelligent, he catches up. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that mali hana sei bija kara aropana. Now, suppose you have got the seed of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, now it is your duty to become a gardener. How? Mālī hañā sei bīja kara āropaṇa, śravaṇa kīrtana jale kara secana Just like you sow a seed in your garden or in your house and put some little water daily and it grows gradually, similarly, if you have captured the seed of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, just pour water on it of this hearing and chanting. Then it will one day fructify. It will never be lost. It will grow, grow, grow. And when it is fully grown and the fruit is there... And what is that fruit? That fruit is love of Godhead. Then your life is successful. So it should be begun from the childhood. That is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja.



kaumāraṁ ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlābhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam



This human life is also not permanent, but you can acquire a permanent thing. This is the opportunity. Therefore it should be learned from the very beginning of your life. Now next line he says



yathā hi puruṣasya iha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānām

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt



Very important. We are searching after a lover. That day the boys were singing, what is that singing? You said?



Devotee: Yes. "You better find somebody to love."



*Prabhupāda: Jaya. Better find out somebody to love. That is the problem. That is the problem of this life. Everyone is there... Now, after disappointment they say that "I had tried to find out somebody, girl or boy, to love, but I was, I mean to say, frustrated, disappointed. Now I find the dog is the best friend." Yes. Actually, they say like that. "We find the dog is the best friend." Is it not? Yes. Why? Everyone is searching after to love somebody. That's a fact. Because we are lover. Our constitutional position is lover. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that Viṣṇu, your loving object is Viṣṇu. So try to love Viṣṇu, then your life will be successful. You'll feel satisfaction. Yayātmā suprasīdati. You'll feel, "Oh, I have got something now. Now I have got this loving object." In another place Prahlāda Mahārāja said na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. They do not know what is their actual loving object. That is Viṣṇu. And in the Vedic mantra, Ṛg mantra, it is said, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are demigods, they are always sūrayaḥ. Sūrayaḥ means Just like Aryans and non*-Aryans. Then there's suri and asuri, or sura or asura. Asura, asura means demons, and sura, just the opposite. Or Aryans and non-Aryans. So the Aryans Aryans, the real meaning, the Sanskrit word, "Aryans," means progressive. We have historically made a class of men. No. Aryan civilization means who is progressive, advancing. They are intelligent. They are fair-complexioned. Therefore Aryan means progressive. So they know.



*Vedic mantra says that tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. Paramaṁ padam, the highest perfection of life, is to understand Viṣṇu or God. Tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. In order to reach that goal, they are always looking after that. Just like in darkness you are walking on the road. The cynosure of the neighboring eyes. You see the stars. Just like in the ocean, the navigators, they look to the Pole Star, that which side they are going. Similarly, our aim should be always to Viṣṇu. Always to Viṣṇu. But unfortunately we are not educated in that way. We are educated in different way. Therefore there is disaster. The same example we can give. If you do not know that the Pole Star, then you may be misdirected. Just like Columbus, he came to America, or many, there are many navigators. If they miss that, misses that Pole Star, then they will be misdirected. Similarly, our human form of life, the aim should be to understand Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. That should be the aim of life. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. So here also, the same thing, viṣṇu pādopasarpaṇam yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ priya. Sarva-bhūtānām means all living entities. Priya, that is real dear object. Sarva-bhūtānāṁ priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt. He is the proprietor of my self. He is Superself. Just like I love this body. Why? Because I am the spirit self, or soul is within this body. Therefore just like I love this apartment. Why? Because I live here. Similarly, I love this body because I am spirit soul, I am living within this body. Therefore I try to protect it. Real love is to myself. So naturally, if you love yourself, then this self is the part and parcel of the Superself. Therefore you love indirectly the Superself. And suhṛt, and He is your actually intimate friend. Suhṛt. Suhṛt means who is always wishing your good. The Vedic information says that the Supreme Lord as Supersoul is sitting with you in the same tree. The individual soul and the Supersoul is sitting in the heart and this body is considered as tree, and He is seeing your, my activities. He is trying to get me back to Godhead. So in whichever form of life I am transmigrating He is also going with me.

*Just like two birds. So he is acting as my friend. That is described in the Upaniṣad, that two birds are sitting in one tree in friendly terms. One bird is eating the fruit of the tree, and the other bird is simply witnessing. So the bird which is eating the fruit of the tree, that means we are enjoying happiness or distress out of my own activities or this bodily activities... But the other bird, or Supersoul, He is not affected with the activities of the body. He is simply looking when this bird will turn to Him. That is His friendship. So suhṛt, this very word is suhṛt. So īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. This is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and all Vedic literature. So that suhṛt is simply looking to the opportunity when the other bird, instead of eating the fruit, looks to his friend. That's all. He's simply waiting for the opportunity. And He's sending His servant, He's coming Himself as incarnation, He is leaving books like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bible, just to attract me. "My dear friend, come this side. Come this side." Suhṛt. And He is ātmeśvara. And He is the proprietor of myself because I am part and parcel of God. So therefore He is the Supreme. So He is Just like you are part and parcel of your father. Similarly, everyone of us we are part and parcel of the Supreme Father. So as we (end)



680610SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

--

Montreal, June 10, 1968



Prabhupāda:



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*This instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja to his class fellows we are discussing for the last few days. His point of view is that this Bhāgavata*-dharma or the occupational duty in relationship with God. Everyone has got some sort of engagement, occupation. Bhāgavata says



ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*Everyone is engaged in a particular type of occupational duty. Never mind what is that occupation. You may be a religious priest, you may be a politician, you may be a nationalist, you may be a chemist, you may be a physist(physicist), you may be a philosopher, you may be a businessman, engineer, whatever you may be. It doesn't matter. You may be Christian, you may be Hindu, you may be dark, you may be white, whatever is there. You have got a particular type of duty. Nobody is without any occupation. Everyone is engaged some sort of duty. The storekeeper is engaged in his business, the factory man is engaged in his business, the lawyer is engaged in his business. Everyone. Sūta Gosvāmī said, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are different kinds of duties according to the different division of the human society. That is a fact. Nobody can deny it. But how one can understand that the duty he is performing is successful? How one can understand? What is the test? You may be whatever you are doing, that doesn't matter. But how it is tested, that whatever you have done in your whole life, it has become successful. The test is, according to Bhāgavatam, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Everyone's duty, the point of perfection is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13], whether by your duty you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the duty. Then it is perfect. You are a great scientist? Very good. But if you can prove scientifically that there is God, that is successful. Otherwise, it is nonsense. If you prove that there is no God, God is dead by scientific method, it is simply lunacy, craziness. That's all. Similarly, if you are philosopher, very expert in mental speculation and writing volumes of books, speculative, but if you can prove that there is God, then your philosophy is perfect. Any line you take.



*Suppose you are a businessman. Formerly, in any part of the world... We have seen in your country, in my country. There are many old churches, old mosques, old temples. In India there are temples just like a fort. Acres of land occupying big, big temples. So who has constructed these temples? Must be rich men, businessmen, landlords, princely order. Why? Because they wanted to satisfy God. Either you manufacture, either you construct a church or temple or mosque, it does not matter. The idea behind is that he wanted that he has labored so hard, he has accumulated so much money, "Let me spend something for God." But at the present moment there are so many skyscrapers, but nobody is constructing a nice church. This is the result of godless civilization. The mentality is changed, that formerly they... This Bhāgavata*-sūtra is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13].

*I'll give you one practical example. In my householder life I was a drugstore businessman. So one Muhammadan gentleman, he was supplying me bottles. So by doing this bottle business he accumulated some money. So one day I asked this old man, his name was Abdula. "Well, Mr. Abdula, you have got some now money, I can understand. So how you are going to use it?" So he said, "My dear sir, I am thinking of constructing a mosque." He was Muhammadan. Just see his mentality, that he wanted... He accumulated some money, but now he wants to satisfy God constructing a big temple or constructing... You'll find in India some old temples. There are so many nice workmanship in stone. That means spent thousands and thousands of dollars. In here also I find so many nice churches, they have been spent by persons. What is the idea? The idea is anyone who has got some money, he wanted to satisfy God. So it doesn't matter what you are doing, but the test of your success will be considered as successful if you try to satisfy God. Because we are, whole life, we are dragging from God. "God give us our daily bread," and God is supplying daily bread. Otherwise, where you are getting bread? You say, "I am purchasing from the market." Oh, where the storekeeper got this wheat? It is produced by agriculture. But do you think that simply by machine it is now produced? No. Unless there is some natural favorable condition, you cannot produce. There are five causes. The land, labor, capital, organization, and Bhagavad*-gītā accepts daiva, another cause. Daiva means godly. You may arrange everything but if God is against you, in spite of your all arrangement, everything will be failure. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. They have searched out five causes for success. So out of the five causes, daiva, daiva means the favor of God, that has been taken as the means for any successful thing.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching to his class friends, that "My dear friends, you try to understand this Bhāgavata*-dharma." What is Bhāgavata-dharma? This is Sanskrit word. Bhāgavata means pertaining to God. Bhagavān means God and Bhāgavata, pertaining to God, that is called Bhāgavata. So Bhāgavata-dharma, the purpose of Bhāgavata-dharma means pertaining to my..., you have to test the success of your activities by pleasing God. That is Bhāgavata-dharma. Just like in your office you want to satisfy your boss. In your school or college you want to satisfy your teacher or principal. Similarly, the supreme teacher, the supreme boss is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. This is the sum and substance of Bhāgavata-dharma, that one has to test the success of his activities. It doesn't matter what it is.

*Now at the present moment in a godless civilization, if some great scientist proves... Just like Professor Einstein, he also said that as we are making advance in science we find that there is a big brain behind this cosmic manifestation. That is acceptance of God. What is that big brain? That big brain is God. The Vedānta*-sūtra says janmady asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Just like when you see a wonderful bridge or wonderful engineering work, you must think that there is a brain behind it. This nice construction, there is a brain behind it. Similarly, those who are sane men, they'll see that with this cosmic, in this cosmic manifestation, so wonderfully working. The sun is rising in due time, the moon is rising in due time, the seasons are being changed in due course, the rain is there, the produce is there, the fruit is there, everything is nicely arranged. So don't you think that there is a brain behind it? Must be. The Bhagavad-gītā says mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Don't think that this material nature is working automatically or independently. There is a brain behind it.

The other day there was some difficulty in my dictaphone and the mechanic man came. He opened. So many arrangements of different kinds of wires. Similarly, we have got this body, a similar arrangement. The veins are so nicely arrangement, the intestines are so nicely arranged. Just like the same way as in a machine the wirings are very nicely arranged. So if for that machine there is a brain, don't you think that in this machine, behind this, there is no brain? There must be brain. This is common sense affair. So this godless civilization means people have lost even common sense. Even common sense. Otherwise, you may, if you use in a harsh word, that they have become fools and rascals, that's all. They have lost their common sense.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is stressing that this God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be learned from the very beginning of life. Kaumāra ācaret prājña. Prājña means one who is intelligent. So children, they have no intelligence. They have intelligence, but they have to be put into intelligence by the guardians. So if the guardian, if the father and mother is intelligent, if the teacher is intelligent, if the government policy is intelligent, then the process should be to teach the small children from the very beginning of life God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise this world is going to hell. It has already gone and it will go. The result will be that I'll kill you, you'll kill me. So both of us will be killed. And this human form, or the facility of this human form of life, which was given to us by grace of God or by the mercy of material nature, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "Don't misuse it. Don't misuse it like animals, simply eating, sleeping, and mating and defending." Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Don't be assured that your next life is going again to be a human form of life. It may be... There are 8,400,000 species of life and according to my work I may enter into any type of body. Durlabhaṁ. Therefore this rare opportunity that we have got this human form of life, mānuṣaṁ durlabhaṁ janma, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. And it will not exist for very long time. But if you utilize it properly then you can achieve the greatest boon. What is that? Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can achieve the greatest boon. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending that "From the very childhood, my dear friends, you learn what is God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, if you advance in age, then you'll be more complicated, more complicated."

Actually, we are experiencing. We have got about eight branches of our this movement. Not only this movement, any movement. Generally, these youngsters, they are being attracted. Any nice movement started, the youngsters, they become more attracted. Not the, I mean to say, elderly people. Because elderly people, whatever they have understood, it takes to forget for some time. But if they try they can also understand. But Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending that before growing very old, from the childhood, receptive state, one should learn this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, he says,

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam

ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ

*sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham

utsaheta vimocitum



He has analyzed the life, that our duration of life may be for one hundred years. Out of that, fifty years we spoil by sleeping, because at night we sleep ten hours, twelve hours. There is 24 hours duration of day and night. So supposing that I sleep for 12 hours, day and night, then actually I live fifty years, because sleeping is death. That is also daily death. The sleeping... What is the different between death and sleeping? There is no difference. Just like at the present moment we are sleeping, say, for 12 hours or 8 hours or 10 hours and getting up in the next morning, and death means we shall sleep for seven months continually, and when we get up I see another body. That is birth and death. That is birth and death. Death means you give up this body. "You" means the soul. And you carry yourself with your subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. According to your mental situation you enter into the womb of a mother injected by the semina of your father, you get an opportunity to grow another body. It takes about seven months to grow that body. So during this period, I mean to say, quitting this body, entering into another body and to develop that body, come to the consciousness point of view, it takes seven months. So death means sleeping for seven months.



*So this sleeping, our daily sleeping is also a sample of death. We are experiencing for 12 hours only or 10 hours only, but this death means you'll have to sleep for seven months, then when you wake up you'll see that you have got another body. That's all. Just like you are getting every moment a different body, similarly, death, birth and death means to change this body and to get another, new body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. The Bhagavad*-gītā says that just like we change one set of garment which is not usable. We throw it away and take another set of garment, similarly, when this body is old enough, it cannot be pulled on, the machine has gone wrong, it cannot work anymore, that is called death. You stop breathing, but you are transferred, transmigrated to another body. So death we are experiencing daily. So out of hundred years, old age, age, the span of life, we are practically dead for fifty years because we are sleeping. Then the fifty years, out of the remaining fifty years, in our childhood we are very much fond of sporting and playing. So twenty years by playing. So seventy years gone. Then during old age, family adjustment, so many things not done, thinking, thinking, another twenty years. So in this way, unless we are trained up in our childhood about the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, it will be very difficult to take up this consciousness with our grown up age. Prahlāda Mahārāja is therefore recommending, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. He's giving practical example that

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam

ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ

*sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham

utsaheta vimocitum



When you are grown up... Nānu yauvane gṛhāsakto 'pi paśyad viraktaḥ syān kṣemaṁ yac chreyāt tat asambhavaṁ darśayan kaumāram eva ācaret. Now we have general tendency... The Śaṅkarācārya said... He was walking on the street, a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī's business is to walk from village to village, town to town, and approach the householder as beggar: "Mother, give me something to eat." He's not a beggar, but he takes the position of beggar. Because everyone is charitably disposed, he thinks proud, "Oh, here is a nice beggar, sannyāsī, let me give him something." But the sannyāsī's desire is to introduce himself as a beggar so that the householder can take up the advantage that "Here is a sannyāsī. Please come on." Naturally he'll ask something, "Swamiji, what is this? What is this?" So he'll get some opportunity to speak something.



*So naturally we are inclined to enjoy this life. So if somebody thinks that "Now I am young man, let me enjoy my senses." At the present moment, youth, the senses are very, I mean to say, in order. So let us enjoy it. And when we get old age, when their senses will not be so expert for enjoyment, then we shall think of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. That is the general tendency. Or the children they think, "Let us play." So Śaṅkarācārya says, bālasya tāvat kriyāsakta. "Oh, what I am seeing? All the children in the street I see they're all engaged in playing," taruṇas tāvat taruṇī*-raktaḥ. "And the young boys and girls, they are after sex." So tarunas tavat taruṇī-raktaḥ, vṛddhas tāvat cinta-magnaḥ. And the old men, they are very thoughtful how to adjust the so big family. "This son is not yet posted in a nice post, the daughter is not married." So many things. So old man is thoughtful, thinking, and the young men, they are after boys and girls, and the children, they are playing. So Śaṅkarācārya is lamenting, bālasya tāvad kriyāsaktas taruṇas tāvat taruṇī-raktaḥ, vṛddhas tāvat cinta-magnaḥ parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ. "I do not see anybody searching after God consciousness." Every one is engaged in a different way.

So unless we train the children from the very beginning of life, just we send to school, they learn so many things, ABCD... Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very beginning. Otherwise, while he's grown up, either he'll be engaged in searching after boy or girl or in playing or in family matters, or so many problems, to solve, so many problems, political, social. They'll be all engaged. Then one day, (makes sound) khat!, the death will come. The cruel death will not wait. "Oh, my dear sir, now come on." "Oh, I have got so many duties." "No. Finished. Come on." I have seen practically. One of my friends at Allahabad, he died at the age of 54 years. He was very rich man, doing business. So he was seriously ill, and he was begging the doctor, "My dear doctor, can you not give me at least four years life more? I have got some scheme, I could not finish it." Just see. Everyone is thinking like that. He has got a scheme, but he has no scheme where he is going either to hell or heaven. That scheme he has forgotten. He's trying to make scheme so long this fifty years, hundred years. You see? This is going on. Parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't misuse your, this boon of life, this human form of life. Just begin from the beginning."

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam

ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ

*sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham

utsaheta vimocitum



*Just like there is affection, attraction. This gentleman, my friend, who was begging from the doctor, "Doctor, another four years duration of life." Why? He has got so much attachment. So once we are attached to this material way of life it is very difficult. It is very difficult. So brahmacārī is trained that this cosmic manifestation in which we are put by chance, this is temporary. Everything will be finished today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. But just try to understand that you are eternal. Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Na jāyate na mriyate kadācit. You have no death, you have no birth. Your, the birth and death is due to this body. That's all. Just like I told you, death means sleeping for seven months, again rise up. Suptotthito nyāya. Just like in the morning, while sleeping, you forget everything, but as soon as you get up from the bed you remember everything, "Oh, I have to do this, I have to go there, I have to do this." So many things you remember. Similarly, as soon as we get our again consciousness in next body, then our another batch of duty begins according to the body.



*That is also explained, deha*-yogena dehinām. Another standard of sense gratification. Because the human body's sense gratification is different from dog's body's sense gratification. Or European sense gratification is different from African sense gratification because it is due to the body. So wherever you take your birth, in this planet or another planet, or this family or that family, this nation or that, that sense gratification arrangement is already there according to your body. You cannot improve it. If a dog likes to gratify his senses like a man, it is not possible because he has got a particular type of body. Deha-yogena dehinām. So that sense... Just like a dog has no economic problems. So a cat has no economic problems, a bird has no economic problem. But we civilized human being, we have got economic problem. Why? Now, because the advanced consciousness which are to be used for understanding our relationship with God, we are utilizing, misusing it for sense gratification. The advanced consciousness which was given to us by the law of nature, to utilize it to understand what is God, what is my relationship with Him, and what is my duty in that relationship, this is the boon to understand in the human life, but we don't care for it.

*That is the misunderstanding of this present civilization. We are trying to improve the dog civilization. What is that dog civilization? A dog sleeps. So we are trying to improve the accommodation of sleeping. Dog eats. Oh, we are trying to improve the condition of our eating. The dog eats some meat, but we are not meat*-eaters, but we want to imitate dog, so therefore we have to arrange so many things. We have to maintain a big slaughterhouse. So dog has no problem, but we have got problems. Because we are misusing our advanced consciousness simply in the same way as the dog. Eating, sleeping, mating or defending. The dog has also defending power. As soon as another dog comes, "Bow, bow, bow." So similarly, we have got defending power, immigration department, visa department, this department, defensive department. What is this? This is all defense. So eating, sleeping, defense, or sex life is required, but you have got another prerogative. Consciousness. That is to be changed into, that is to be improved into Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. That is your duty. So unless we are trained up to change our consciousness which we have had in many other animal life Because this is evolutionary process. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni. From 900,000 species of life of aquatics, then trees and plants, then reptiles, worms, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized men, then we have come to this form of civilized men who are, there is intelligence for production, there is nice brain for so many things. So how it should be utilized? Prahlāda Mahārāja says it should be utilized for understanding God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, it is simply a misuse of life. Thank you very much.

Woman: You say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness people should start at an early age, but does that mean we should consider ourselves at age of a very small child towards beginning Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we send small children to nursery school, or preliminary, primary schools. Similarly, because that is the age, receptive age. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from that childhood age. Therefore I wanted that on Sunday, let people send their children here and we shall teach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll be surprised that in India I approached so many gentlemen, "My dear sir, you have got four boys. Give me one boy. Let me teach Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So they'll say, "Swamijī, what they'll do learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How they will struggle for existence?" So nobody wants it. Nobody wants. They think that by sending boys to Kṛṣṇa consciousness school, the boy will be spoiled. That is their idea. Yes.



Guest: Swamiji, you mentioned that death is actually sleeping for seven months?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: Is this provided you take on a human form of life?



Prabhupāda: Not necessarily.



Guest: If you take on a dog's body then it's still seven months?



*Prabhupāda: Not seven months. I am speaking from the human point of view. But that consciousness is, I mean to say, subdued for a few days, a few months, then you get another body. Again consciousness is there, and you begin your work. Even you get human form of life, but if you do not utilize it properly, then what is the use of getting human form of life? That is the defect, but there is no training. There are so many university departments, but there is no department for understanding what is the soul or what is God. No department. This Bhagavad*-gītā teaches this department of knowledge. Beginning. From the very beginning. The Bhagavad-gītā is begun from the understanding that Arjuna was spoken by Kṛṣṇa, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāmś ca bhāṣase [Bg. 2.11]. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man but," gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ, "but actually one who is learned man, he does not bother about this body either dead or alive." This is not the subject matter, to supply the necessities of body. This is not the subject matter of study for a learned man. In other words, the whole world is absorbed in the study of this body only. So there is no learned man according to Bhagavad-gītā. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāmś ca bhāṣase [Bg. 2.11]. That you are talking Actually, so many learned men, M.A., Ph.D., with university qualification, they are talking so much, but as soon as they are asked, "Do you know what is the soul?" They stop. Yes?



Guest: I have here a Holy Bible.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: The Holy Bible is written by the holy spirit of mankind. Should we believe on the Bible or not?



Prabhupāda: But so far I know, that, the man who wrote, he wrote with, on revelation.



Guest: The holy spirit.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you should read. That... Just try to understand. If somebody, ordinary man writes a book, he'll write book on his own experience. Therefore he's a, because he is imperfect, because his senses are imperfect, he has got a cheating propensity, he is sure to commit mistake and he's sure to be illusioned. His position being such, he cannot give us any perfect knowledge. Because he's imperfect by constitution. Every man will commit mistake. Every man will be illusioned. Just like every one of us illusioned. I am not this body but I'm thinking I'm this body. And the whole activity of my life is based on this body. So therefore whole thing is mistake, illusion. Similarly, a conditioned soul, anyone, he has got a propensity to cheat. Everyone wants to be very intelligent. How? By cheating others. He thinks, "Oh, I have cheated that man. I am very intelligent." This propensity, every one of us we have got. Therefore he has got a cheating propensity. And over all, the senses by which he's acquiring knowledge by speculating, that is imperfect.



*Guest: The body is Krish*-na. Krish-na (indistinct), Christ. Body of Christ, the whole(holy?) spirit.



*Prabhupāda: Body of Christ is not ordinary body. That is spiritual body. Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7], paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.8]. So this is a very subtle point. One has to understand that when God comes or God's son comes or God's representative comes, they do not accept a body like us. They have their spiritual body.



Guest: Kṛṣṇa means Christ. He's the whole spirit. We are in the body of man. That is the body of God.



Prabhupāda: The body of man is not exactly body of God. There is no difference between the body and soul of God because it is spiritual. The soul is spiritual, the body is spiritual. Just like if you have got your golden body and golden soul, there is no difference between the soul and body. But in our case, we, as we are, we are spirit soul but this body is material, therefore I am different from this body. But when you are liberated, we get spiritual body, similar, at that time, as Kṛṣṇa has no difference between His body and soul, similarly, we also have no difference between body and soul. But at the present moment we have got difference with the body and soul. Therefore as soon as the soul goes away from this body, the body being matter, "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." It mixes with the matter. The soul takes another body. The whole problem is that we have to stop this repetition of migration from one material body to another material body. That is the highest perfection of life.



Haṁsadūta: After that seven months of unconsciousness in the body, in the womb, what does that spirit soul experience from that time till it comes out?



Prabhupāda: He remains unconscious.



Haṁsadūta: After seven months...



Prabhupāda: After seven months he gets consciousness.



Haṁsadūta: And from that time to that ninth month when he leaves the body, what's his experience? Or what's his understanding, spirit soul.



Prabhupāda: So many understanding, experience. Just like we have got so many experiences in different types of body.



Haṁsadūta: He doesn't know his position.



*Prabhupāda: No. That position, unless he goes to a spiritual master, tad*-vijñānarthaṁ sa gurum evābhiga... [MU 1.2.12], how can he know? Just like a diseased man, he'll say he does not know what is his disease, but as soon as he goes to a physician, he says, "My dear sir, you are suffering from this disease." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, he was suffering from this material disease, he was thinking about his relationship with this body and Kṛṣṇa treated him, that "You are not this body." Similarly, everyone wants to be treated, that he is not body, he's spirit soul. Then he'll understand his real position. At that time, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Oh, as soon as he understands, "Oh, I am spirit soul, I have got a spiritual kingdom," so many things, then brahma-bhūtaḥ prasanna, he has no more any anxiety for this material condition of life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more any anxiety, no more any desire. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, and he looks equally to everyone. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate, and again engages himself in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is awakening. And the Vedas say uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. "My dear sir, you have got this human body. Just wake up. Don't sleep any more like animals." Prāpya varān nibodhata, "You have got this fortunate body. Just utilize it." Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." These things are to be learned. Yes?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: What is that? Janārdana?



Janārdana: In Tibetan literature, there's a concept that there is 72,000 years allotted?



Guest: (indistinct)



Janārdana: You mean once you get a human body, then you can have 72,000 years?



Guest: (indistinct)



Janārdana: Well, in the Vedic scriptures there are 8,400,000 different incarnations.



Guest: No, not the species. I'm not talking about the species. 72,000 years...



Janārdana: And what happens if you don't make it?



Guest: I don't know. That's what I'm wondering.



*Prabhupāda: Now... I can understand. Now suppose a boy in this classroom is given some task. The teacher says, "You are allowed two hours to finish this task." Now if the boy is intelligent he can finish it in few minutes. Or if he is not intelligent he cannot finish even in two hours. Similarly, that allowance is very nice, the 72,000 of years. But if you get the opportunity in 72 days to come out why should you not take that opportunity? Why should you put yourself into that 72,000 years? If there is a means to get out of this entanglement in 72 days why should you lose this opportunity? Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*After many, many births. The same thing, 72,000 of years or any number of years. One who is wise, one who has attained wisdom, he surrenders unto Me. How? Now, he understands, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all*-pervading. Vāsudeva means all-pervading. He is everything. Therefore let me surrender unto Him. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. That sort of great soul is very rare. Now if this is the position, that ultimately we have to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead after many, many births, take it for 72,000 of years or any number even. Now here I get the information from the Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead I become wise man. So why not surrender immediately? Why shall I wait for 72,000 of years? Let me do it immediately. That is wisdom. That is wisdom. The things which I am going to get after 72,000 of years, if I am getting it immediately, oh, catch up this opportunity. That is intelligence. Yes?



*Indian man: Are we duty*-bound to maintain our body?



Prabhupāda: You are not maintaining your body. You are given a body to fulfill your desire. You get a particular type of body to fulfill your desire. You desire... Just like we have got, you analyze each and every one of us, each and every one has got a different type of body. Why? Each and every one of us has got a different type of mentality. That mentality is going on, and according to that mentality you are getting different types of body. So this body means to give me opportunity to satisfy a different type of mentality. That is God's grace. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. You wanted this body, God has given you this body. If you want a tiger's body, God will give you a tiger's body. If you want a demigod's body, God will give you a demigod's body.



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vrataḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*But if you want a God's body you will get it also. So why not take a God's body? This is the opportunity. This is the opportunity. [break] ...desire this body, that body, this body, that body, I have traveled so many bodies. 8,400,000's of bodies. Now here is a body, where is perfect consciousness. I can understand that if I like I can get next birth God's body. [break] ...means the same body as God has, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So this is illusion that I think that I am maintaining this body. You are not maintaining this body. The nature's law, nature's supply, nature's arrangement, that is Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. The nature is acting according to the different qualities. And ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, being puffed up, one thinks that "I am doing this." Nonsense, you cannot do it anything. You are being forced to do by the laws of nature. Yes.



Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So if the activities is going on with the laws of nature, then how do you become Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Do you (indistinct) yourself completely?



*Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa said, that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... [Bg. 18.66]. "You nonsense. You give up all this nonsense business. Come to Me." So we have, you have to develop such knowledge. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa says like this, let me do this." [break] "...faith that whatever engagement you have manufactured, it is simply troublesome, miserable for your life. Don't try to manufacture any more. Please come to Me." "Oh, how shall I live?" Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. "Don't bother. I shall give you protection." Unfortunately, we do not follow. We have no business to maintain this body or that body, but simply to surrender to God. Then everything will be done. [break] ...maintain your body. Every one is trying to become President Johnson or something like that. Does it mean that he will become? The arrangement is pre-arrangement. You may work day and night, hard labor. But you'll get whatever is destined to you. That's all. You cannot get more. That is being taught by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Just like a dog, he has got a particular type of body. He is confined in that bodily activities. If a dog likes that "I shall be President Johnson," is it possible? However, how much he may try, that body will not allow him. Similarly, we have got a particular type of body to enjoy a particular type of sense gratification. If we try to go beyond that, it is not possible. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't try foolishly in that way. If you have got any energy, try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will make you happy." Don't misuse your energy in that way, that "I shall become this, I shall become that." That you cannot become. [break] ...the example, yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ. You are trying to be happy in a different way. That is not the way of happiness. But you are thinking that "I shall be happy in this way." But that also you cannot do. Your happiness, whatever is destined to you, that will come automatically. How? He gives the example, yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ. Just like a misery of your life, you do not try for it, but it comes upon you automatically. Similarly, the happiness of your life will also come upon you automatically. So do not try to waste your time for so-called happiness or to drive away so-called distress. Just push yourself under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. He will manage everything and you'll be happy. [break]



*...and so far occupation is concerned, just see whether by your occupation you are satisfying God. That is your perfection. [break] Kṛṣṇa does not say that you change your occupation. Just like Arjuna. He is a kṣatriya. His business is to fight. The division of human society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra, is very scientific. A kṣatriya is meant for fighting. A brāhmaṇa is meant for intelligent work. A vaiśya is meant for business. A śūdra is meant for labor. But because there is no such division, people are not trained from the very beginning. Therefore a śūdra is called by the draftboard, "Come on," to fight. Now, how he can fight? He is not a kṣatriya. So they are flying away. They're taking visa for another country and going away. How he can fight? He is not kṣatriya. So Kṛṣṇa said Arjuna that, "You are kṣatriya." He did not say... Kṛṣṇa wanted, Arjuna wanted to become a false brāhmaṇa. He said, "Oh, I shall become nonviolent, and even though I don't get my kingdom I shall beg like a brāhmaṇa and shall live away. Kṛṣṇa, don't ask me to fight." This is false brahmanism. "Oh," Kṛṣṇa said, "you are kṣatriya. You must fight." It cannot imitate a brāhmaṇa's business. This is false. So anyone has got a particular duty, as I explained in the beginning. So he, let him do that particular duty. He doesn't require to change. Sva*-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. But try to see whether by execution of your particular type of duty you have satisfied God. That is your perfection. [break] ...life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we do not say that you give up all your engagements, come here in the temple and simply go on chanting. Consciousness, you must come to the perfection of consciousness that I am eternally related with Kṛṣṇa and God... [break] So Vedic literature does not say like that. It is order. You have to accept it. If you do not understand, try to understand it. That is a different thing. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā there is no question of interpretation. In the beginning it is said

*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*"My dear Sañjaya," Dhṛtarāṣṭra is asking his private secretary, Mr. Sañjaya, "my sons and my brother's sons, Pāṇḍava..." His brother's name was Pandu, therefore they are Pāṇḍava. Māmakāḥ means "my sons." Where is the scope for interpretation? Kuru*-kṣetre. There is still one place, you know better, you are Indian, there is place Kurukṣetra still existing. Dharmakṣetra, that is a religious place, place of pilgrimage. Still, people go for religious performances. In the Vedas it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret. One should perform religious rituals in the Kurukṣetra. So where is the scope for interpretation? Interpretation means when you cannot understand something. Then you can interpret. But here Kurukṣetra you can understand, dharma-kṣetra you can understand, māmakāḥ you can understand, pāṇḍava you can understand, they assembled for fighting you can understand. Why do you interpret? What is the necessity of interpretation? That means he wants to show that he has got some better intelligence than the speaker of the Bhagavad-gītā. We do not accept such things, nonsense. [break]



*If you have to learn Bhagavad*-gītā, then you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā as Kṛṣṇa speaks or as Arjuna understands. Just like if you take a medicine bottle. The direction, as it is stated in the bottle, you have to take medicine in that way. You cannot make your own direction, interpretation. [break] Nonsense. We don't accept. [break] We are publishing one book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It has been taken by one great publisher, Macmillan Company, and we'll have it by the month of October. Don't interpret. We explain things as they are. That should be the attitude. Why? Why interpretation? By interpretation, there are 664 editions of Bhagavad-gītā. Simply by... One medical man he has interpreted Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is a physician and Arjuna is a patient. And he has tried to explain through Bhagavad-gītā all anatomic physiology, not this. Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the battlefield, full of violence, and he is trying to prove that the Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolent. These are all artificial attempts. These explanations will never give you the real light from Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. [break]

*...everything then he becomes perfect. Perfect. Simply by understanding God perfectly... Not perfectly, preliminary. Nobody can understand God perfectly. That is not possible. That is not in our capacity. God is so great, we are so small. But to our small understanding whatever we can know, that are described in different kinds of scripture, and Bhagavad*-gītā is also another description of the truth, Absolute Truth. So here Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who understands this Absolute Truth or the activity or the purpose or the appearance, disappearance, about God, what is God, what are His activities... Just like we have got our activities, we have got our identification, similarly God has got His identification, His activity, His form, everything. Now one has to understand what is that. It is called divyam. Divyam means it is not like this material thing. It is spiritual. So that is a spiritual science. So the result will be that janma karma ca me divyam evam yo vetti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Tattvataḥ means truth, scientifically. Two plus two equal to four. This is called tattvataḥ, truth. Similarly anyone who understands the science of God, then the result will be tyaktvā deham. By quitting this body... We have to quit, leave this body, that is a fact. You'll also not remain in this body, I'll not also remain in this body. But before quitting this body, before leaving this body, if we can simply understand what is God, doesn't matter whatever you are doing. You remain occupied in your duties, you remain what you are. It doesn't matter. Simply try to understand what is God and what are His activities. Then you'll become liberated.

*So much facility is offered. And the Bhagavad*-gītā is there. You can understand with all your reason, with all your argument, with all your senses what is God. It is nothing dogmatic. It is all reasonable, philosophical. Unfortunately they have decided that God is dead. How God can be dead? This is another rascaldom. You are not dead; how God can be dead? So there is no question of God's being dead. He is always present, just like sun is always present. Only the rascals, they say there is no sun. There is sun. It is out of your sight, that's all. Similarly, "Because we cannot see God, therefore God is dead," these are rascaldom. It is not very good conclusion. So one has to understand what is God, divyam. So Kṛṣṇa says anyone who understands this philosophy or science of God, philosophy... [break] ...called the science of sciences. So therefore I use this word "science." So science of God. Then, after leaving this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma na eti [Bg. 4.9]. He does not come back again to take this conditional material body. Then, he's finished? No. He says, mām eti so 'rjuna. "My dear Arjuna, that person comes to Me." That means you are transferred to the spiritual kingdom or God's kingdom.

*Just like we are present here, face to face. You can go there and see and talk, everything is there simply by understanding. And for that understanding here is Bhagavad*-gītā. So why don't you take this advantage? We are trying to place before you Bhagavad-gītā. We are not charging anything, fees from you, that "You give me thirty-five dollars or fifty dollars." No. We are distributing this knowledge free. Please come and take ad... There is no loss on your part, but there is so much gain. And try to understand it nicely. The result will be tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply can understand this preliminary thing, what is God, that's all. Then you have got duty. As soon as you know your relationship with God, then you have got some duty. Oh, when you're engaged in such duties then you are already in the liberated stage. You are already in the liberated stage. Simply by understanding God you become liberated. Your certificate is there, you can enter. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Thank you very much. Is that clear?

Guest: You stated that the reason that we forget is that we change, the body changes. Now when we chant, we remember. What correlation is there between this... I talked to Janārdana before about the horizontal memory and the vertical memory, and I understand... So I wish you could sort of elaborate on why we forget. I don't completely understand.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is intelligent question. You forget because you have got this material body, and because the material body is changing every moment, every second, therefore we forget. Is it not? You are forgetting. You do not know what exactly you were doing at this time, because your body has changed. Similarly, you do not exactly remember last year on this date at this time what you were doing because body has changed. Similarly, it is the nature of the body to change and you forget. That is the nature of this material body. But if you constantly remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you stand on the spiritual platform. In the spiritual platform you don't forget Kṛṣṇa. In the material platform you forget so many things, but in the spiritual platform you don't forget Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's duties. So if you can continue in that way, then you continue in spiritual platform, and the result will be that after getting out of this body, you are spiritually situated. So we have to continue the spiritual stand on spiritual platform by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always remembering Kṛṣṇa. Smartavyaḥ satataṁ viṣṇuḥ vismartavyo na jātucit. This is the process. You have to remember always Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. That is called meditation. That is called samādhi.



*The samādhi, the meditation which is going on, some rascaldom, that is not meditation. Meditation means always thinking of Viṣṇu. That is meditation. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is perfect meditation. Always thinking. And it is certified in Bhagavad*-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. Mad-gatenāntarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. So Kṛṣṇa said, he is first-class yogi who is constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām. With faith and devotion, always remembering Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yoginām api sarveṣām, of all the yogis They have opened so many classes of yoga class, somebody is advertising that you can remain young, you can have better sex power or you can reduce your bodily fat. So that is also possible. That you can do by ordinary exercise. But real purpose of yoga is to concentrate the mind on Viṣṇu always. That is yoga. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest perfectional stage of yoga practice.

Guest: When we associate with Kṛṣṇa through His name...



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is nondifferent.



Guest: Yes, right. Sometimes we forget to do our duty very attentively. Sometimes we forget to do the (floor?). By associating with Kṛṣṇa through His name, then we can remember our duty? Or (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Yes, you remember. If you remember Kṛṣṇa, then you'll remember all duties of Kṛṣṇa. If you remember... Suppose you are working in an office. If you remember that you have to go to such office at such and such time, that means you'll remember all the duties of the office. That is automatically... It is not that while you are going in the office, on the way you know what you have to do there. But because you are remembering the office that means automatically they are there in dormant stage.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu means all-pervading God. God is everywhere. Just like the sun. The sun is a planet and there is a sun*-god also. In each and every planet there is a predominating deity. Just like in this planet you have got a predominating man, president. Similarly, in each and every planet there is a predominating living creature. In the sun planet the predominating living creature is called sun-god. In the moon planet the predominating deity is called moon-god. And similarly, there are millions of millions of planets and there is a predominating deity. So similarly, the original planet, Kṛṣṇaloka, the predominating Deity is Kṛṣṇa who is Viṣṇu. So just like the sun is situated in the particular planet but the sunshine is spread all over the universe. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, although He's in His planet, His energy is distributed all over the creation. Therefore He is all-pervading. Viṣṇu means all-pervading God. He is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He's within this universe, He is within the atom also. He's within you also. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61].



*So Viṣṇu means all*-pervading. But by our material conception we think that anything which is all-pervading, how it can be localized personally? That is our material conception. Just like I am sitting here, you are sitting here. You cannot be all-pervading. But your mind, because it is finer, the mind can be in so many places. Similarly, when you are still finer intelligence, you are still finer, a spirit soul, you can also become all-pervading. At the present moment we are hampered, conditioned, by the covering of this material body. Therefore our endeavor should be how we get out of this material body. That formula I've already explained that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply understand what is God, simply by this understanding, tyaktvā deham, after leaving this body, punar janma naiti, you don't get any more this material body. Simply try to understand what is Viṣṇu, then you become as good as that Viṣṇu. First of all you understand Viṣṇu, that He is all-pervading. So Viṣṇu, because He has got spiritual body, similarly, when you get your spiritual body How you can get? By understanding Viṣṇu.

*Therefore in the Vedic mantra, Rg mantra, it is, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sada paśyanti sūrayaḥ. The sūraya, those who are demigods or Aryans, they are, their destination is Viṣṇu. But ordinary men, they do not know that. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that their ultimate goal of life is to understand Viṣṇu. Why? Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to become perfect with this material condition. That is not possible. You have to know Viṣṇu. Then you become perfect. Otherwise, you have to change this body one after another. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. You have one body, you remain for some time, then it is destroyed, you get immediately another body, again enter into the womb of mother, again form your body from little, a pulse-like body to this body and grow to your higher status in your younger age. Then again become dwindled, become old man, and again vanish. So bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Everything material will have to change like this. And there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies, and you have to evolve in the cycle of such body. So if you want to get out of this circulation, continually, then here is the formula: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Simply try to understand what is God or Viṣṇu, then you get that opportunity.

Guest: When you say understand, do you (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: What do you mean, understanding? Simply hear and get out from the other.



Guest: But I mean (indistinct). We can't understand Kṛṣṇa with our mind.



*Prabhupāda: With your material mind. When you are Kṛṣṇa consciousness your quality of mind is changed. The mind, the understanding of God, is simply purification of the senses. Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. By the present senses you cannot understand what is God, what is His name, what is His quality, what is His form, what are activities. You have to learn this. The Bhagavad-gītā says vetti tattvataḥ. You have to learn. So now as you say, that mind... Of course, with this mind you cannot understand. You cannot think of Kṛṣṇa. With this tongue you cannot chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. With these ears you cannot hear what is Hare Kṛṣṇa. With these eyes you cannot see what is Kṛṣṇa. But if you purify... Just like cataractic eyes cannot see, but if you purify the eyes, then you can see everything. The eyes will remain as it is, but you have to purify. The process is purification. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. That purification takes place when you engage yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to engage a person in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the temple is Kṛṣṇa's. You wipe out the floors, you decorate it, collect flowers, engage your eyes to hear about Kṛṣṇa, engage your tongue for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So engage your eyes to see the Deity, or engage your legs to go to the temple. In this way, if you engage your senses, present senses for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it becomes gradually purified and you... Kṛṣṇa becomes revealed. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva. You cannot see Kṛṣṇa but when you are anxious, when you are purified, Kṛṣṇa reveals Himself to you. By your eyes or..., if you say, "Kṛṣṇa, please come, I'll see You," that is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is not your order*-supplier. He wants to see you, how much you are qualified to see Him. When you are qualified He'll reveal to you. He is everywhere. Simply you have to make your eyes to see Him. That's all. This is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. He reveals.

*Similarly, it is confirmed in the Nārada*-pañcarātra, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. We have to become first of all free from all designations. If I think I'm American, if I think I am Christian, if I think I am Indian, if I think I am Hindu, if I think I am Muslim, if I think I am this, I am that, these are all designations. When you are free from the designation, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam And what is that freedom? "I am Kṛṣṇa's." That's all. I am not American, not Indian, not Hindu, not Muslim, not Christian. I am Kṛṣṇa's or God's. That is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. And as you are convinced that you are God's or Kṛṣṇa's, then engage yourself not in the designated service, but Kṛṣṇa's service. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. Then everything will be purified. Your eyes will be purified, your ears will be purified, your legs, everything, all senses will be purified. When your senses are purified, hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When with that purified senses Hṛṣīkena means senses. Kṛṣṇa's name is Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīkeśa means the master of the senses. Govinda. Govinda also means the master of the senses. So the senses which you have got, this hand, leg, eyes, everything, I am not the proprietor. Practically the proprietor is Kṛṣṇa. So when you engage your all the senses in the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That hṛṣīkena, that senses, must be purified. How? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam, being released, freed from all designations.

So the difficulty is that we are not free from designation. We are thinking, "Oh, I am Christian. Oh, I am Hindu. I am this. I am that." Nobody's thinking that, "I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am God's." So this designation disease has to be first of all cured. Then you become pure. So long you keep your designation you are not pure. You are in the material condition. Therefore

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*That is bhakti. You have to be free from all designation. Then when you begin service, then Kṛṣṇa reveals Himself. Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam [Bg. 10.10]. He is within you. He'll give you intelligence, "This is this. This is this. This is this. This is this." Why? When? Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-purvakam. "When he's in love and faith engaged in My service." Then? Why, otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa will talk with you? He is within you. That's all right. But He'll talk with you when you are qualified. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to make you qualified, qualified to talk with Kṛṣṇa, to see Kṛṣṇa, to understand Kṛṣṇa. And then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma [Bg. 4.9]. Then you, while quitting this body, no more you are going to accept any material body. You are directly transferred to Kṛṣṇa. Mām eti kaunteya. This is the simple process.



Guest: Someone asked me today what was Candra's function...



Prabhupāda: What is this? You say that... That, you are not dictionary. So you have to answer all these questions, what Candra's function. What business you have got Candra's function? You ask for Kṛṣṇa. Candra's function don't you know? It is giving light. That is his function. Candra means moon. You mean to say? Then moon is giving the light. That's all. Everyone knows. A child knows Candra's function. What is that? Candra's function is to give light at night. That's all. Any fool knows. That is not question. You must put some intelligent question, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Candra's function... Candra means moon. The moon function everyone knows. What is difficulty? You should have at least this common sense to reply. The Candra's function is to give light, that's all.



Guest: Indra's function is to carry water?



Prabhupāda: Yes. The sanitary engineer's functions, they are coming here, everyone knows. They are called sanitary engineers? The scavengers? Similarly, they are like that, different kinds of engineers. Sanitary engineer, water work engineer, light department engineer, that's all. First of all, try to understand what is your function, then try to understand what is other's function. (chuckles) Your function is to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's it. How you can know? There are millions and trillions of other beings, what is the function? Here you have to see what is your function. That is



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*You have to purify your senses and be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. We have to first of all see whether I am actually in my own function. That is the sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the function. We have to give up all other functions. Simply to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's function. That is my duty. So everyone's function is that. Candra's function, he is giving light under the order of Kṛṣṇa. He is servant of Kṛṣṇa. (end)





680612SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

--

Montreal, June 12, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*...sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana*-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ

*śrī*-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca



Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare,

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.



[My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.]



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*This verse we have been discussing in our last meeting. The purport is: "From very childhood, very childhood, the boys, the children, should be taught about this God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." The mistake of modern civilization is that we are, I mean to say, bringing up spoiled children. So when they are grown up, if they become hippies or communists, it is not their fault. It is the fault of the guardians. It is the fault of the guardians. When the people become just something against the social convention, it is not the fault of the youngsters, but it is the fault of the education system, it is the fault of the parents, it is fault of the teachers. Because they are not teaching. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that from the very childhood one should be taught. I have seen in India. The Muhammadans, they are very much particular about it. The small children, within ten years, they are... From the very beginning they are taught Koran in the mosques. I have seen. In my Delhi headquarter, it is just behind the Jama Musjid. You have heard the name of Jama Musjid. That is the greatest mosque in the world. Many foreigners go to see it. It was constructed by Emperor Shah Jahan, say, about three hundred years or little more than that. So the Muhammadans, they are very particular to teach the Koran from the very beginning. That's a very nice system. Either you teach Koran or you, Koran, Bible, or you teach Bhagavad*-gītā, it doesn't matter. One should have the idea of God consciousness. Then he can develop. So this opportunity should be offered to the children. If not, they are not real guardians, real parents, or real teachers. Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. This Prahlāda Mahārāja teaching is not this Bhāgavatam. Just mark it. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, dharmān bhāgavatān, "the religion of God consciousness." He does not say Hindu religion or Muhammadan religion or Christian religion.



Dharmān bhāgavatān. As I explained already last days, Bhāgavata means pertaining to God. So whatever your idea of God may be, that must be impressed from the childhood, that "There is God." Actually there is God. To deny God or "God is dead" is simply rascaldom. So whatever religion or sect you may profess, the Prahlāda Mahārāja says that one should have the idea of God consciousness. We don't say, neither Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that Kṛṣṇa conscious. Of course, Kṛṣṇa means God. But if somebody has got objection, Kṛṣṇa, because this name is Indian name or Sanskrit name or Kṛṣṇa appeared Himself in India, it doesn't matter. We are concerned with the philosophy, with the teachings. Just like Buddha. He was also Indian. He was Hindu, kṣatriya. And why Buddhism is accepted by so many people of the world? Whole Japan, whole China, Burma, and... Why? The philosophy is concerned. Just like Christian, Christian religion. Lord Jesus Christ, he appeared in Jordan. But... Jordan or Jerusalem?

Hayagrīva: He appeared in Palestine.



Prabhupāda: Palestine. Near about that place, yes. So anyway, he was not European or American or Indian or Chinese, but there are many Chinese Christians, there are many Indian Christian, European Christian, American Christian. So if some idea of religion is developed in a particular country, we should not take it that it is meant for that particular country. No. That is mistake. God is one. Just like the sun. The sun is one. It does not mean if the sun appears in America, he becomes American sun. No. Sun is sun. He is neither American nor Indian. But he rotates. He rotates. He sometimes appears on the American land, sometimes on the Indian land, sometimes on the Chinese land.



*There is a very nice verse in Cāṇakya-śloka that... He gives the example, I mean to say, broadmindedness. Na hi harate jyotsnā chandraś caṇḍāla*-veśmani. Caṇḍāla. Caṇḍāla, according to Vedic conception, a caṇḍāla, a class who are dog-eaters, and they are meant for very low-class duty. So they are out of the caste system. Caṇḍāla means fifth dimension. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-these four classes are accepted. And beyond that, they are called caṇḍāla. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that "Even one is caṇḍāla, that does not mean that moonshine will not be delivered there." The moon is so liberal that it doesn't matter whether it is the house of brāhmaṇa or it is the house of a caṇḍāla. It doesn't matter. Just like when rain falls... You have seen, experienced. There is no necessity of rain on the sea. A vast mass of water there is, but rain is falling there also. Why? It is liberal, meant for everyone. Rain is not only meant for land. It is meant for the sea also. Similarly, any God consciousness movement, it does not mean that it is meant for that particular country or for that particular section. No. Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, don't consider it, that it is meant for the Hindus or for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Just see. Dharmān bhāgavatān.

Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "From the childhood, one should be taught the science of God." Dharmān bhāgavatān means the science of God. Just try to understand the word dharma. Dharma is generally translated into English as religion. But dharma does not mean a particular type of faith. That is not the Sanskrit import. Dharma means the natural quality. That is. Everything has some natural quality characteristic. Everything. So natural characteristic for every living entity is to serve. That is the natural characteristic. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting, nobody can say that "I am not servant." Everyone of us is a servant. You go up to the highest man, your prime minister, or USA, the president, everyone is servant. Nobody can claim that "I am not servant." So therefore, either you are a Christian, or either you are a Hindu, either you are a Muhammadan, but you have to serve. It is not that because one is Christian or Hindu, he hasn't got to serve. Just like so many Indians, they have come here. What is the profession? They are serving. They are serving here some company or some institution or some university. So serving was there in India. Service is also here. So this is religion.

Religion means the characteristic. Characteristic... You cannot change your characteristic. In whatever circumstances you may be, the characteristic will continue. That is the meaning of religion. Dharmān bhāgavatān. And bhāgavatān means pertaining to God. And what is that, that characteristic of relationship between God and myself? That is called religion. Religion means that oh, characteristics of God, characteristics of the living entity, and to dovetail them. The characteristic of God is God is great. That is the characteristic. And we are small, little. This is our character. If we are not small, then why we are serving the great? Serving means there must be somebody greater than me. At least, the money is greater than me. If I don't serve the man, but the man, my master who supplies me the money, that is greater. So actually in this material world, there is no genuine service. Everyone is serving the intention of sense enjoyment. Just like from tomorrow there will be postal strike. What is that? They are not serving the government or the public. They are serving their salary. Is it not? As soon as there is some less salary, they strike. Therefore I have got my service spirit, and I have to serve somebody. That is my natural characteristic. You cannot deny it. Now you have to find out where your service should be engaged so that you may not be frustrated. That is required.

*There is one verse in Bhāgavatam. One devotee, he has taken sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means the renounced order of life. Just like as you see me by my dress, this is called sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means... This is Sanskrit word, sat*-nyāsa. This is sannyāsa. Sat means the Supreme, the Absolute Truth. And nyāsa means renounced. One who has renounced everything for the service of the Supreme, he is called a sannyāsa. Sannyāsa does not mean a particular type of dress or particular type of beard. Sannyāsa means you can become a sannyāsī even with your, this coat-pant. It doesn't matter, provided you have dedicated your life for the service of God. That is called sannyāsa. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī, sa sannyāsī sa yogi ca na cānya akriya [Bg. 6.1]. The meaning of this verse is that anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. Everyone is working in this material world for some salary or for some remuneration, but if one works not for salary or for remuneration but as a matter of duty... Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryam. Kāryam means "It must be done." Karma karoti yaḥ: "In such a way, if somebody acts, then sa sannyāsī, he is sannyāsī." Just try to understand. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. You are doing some work. Why you are doing some work? Either for some salary or for some profit or for some gain. Otherwise nobody is working uselessly. He must have some gain. But one who does not utilize that gain for his sense gratification but works as a matter of duty, kāryaṁ karma karoti sa sannyāsī sa yogi ca. Such person is actually a sannyāsī and yogi.

*You have heard the name of yogi. Yogi means that he has no other business. The sannyāsī and yogi is the same because yogi has no other business. He is simply trying to concentrate his mind on the Viṣṇu. Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginaḥ, not these black yogis. The real yogi. Real yogi means he is always in meditation, dhyānāvasthita. Dhyāna means meditation. Dhyānāvasthita manasā. Where meditation is performed? In the mind. That means concentrating the mind. Dhyānāvasthita manasā. Then what is that concentration? Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yam, whom. That means the Supreme Viṣṇu. One who sees the Supreme Viṣṇu always within his mind by concentration, he is called yogi. Yogi does not mean to show some magical or gymnastic feats. These are This practice of āsana or breathing exercise, that will help you for concentrating, pratyāhāra. There is a term, pratyāhāra. Pratyāhāra means you draw your engagement of the senses from matter, and you engage them in the Viṣṇu. That is yogi.

*So bhakta*-yogi, which we are teaching in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are the topmost yogis because they are being trained to draw the engagement of the senses from anything outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are trying to draw the senses from everything and applying it in Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are trying to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. When we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that means we withdraw our mind from all other engagement and try to engage my mind and ear on the sound vibration of Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa, being Absolute Truth, there is no difference between the person Kṛṣṇa and the name Kṛṣṇa. In the absolute world there is no relativity. Therefore when you concentrate your mind on the sound vibration of Kṛṣṇa, that means you are concentrating on the Absolute Truth, and that is the process of yogi. Yogi, somebody may think, "Here there is no bodily exercise, no breathing exercise. How they become yogi?" Real yogi means to concentrate the mind in Viṣṇu. Dhyānāvasthita. So the original form of Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa, and therefore concentrating the mind on Kṛṣṇa, even by vibration, because there is no difference of identity between the vibration of the name of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa, therefore this is the highest form of yoga practice. And life dedicated for Kṛṣṇa's service.

*All the students, all the disciples, they are engaged, how to broadcast the message of Kṛṣṇa. They are trying to find out the opportunity in so many ways. They are making arrangement for distribution of prasādam so that one may be attracted, or at least he may hear the word Kṛṣṇa for once when he comes to take Kṛṣṇa*-prasādam, or he may hear the vibration of Kṛṣṇa, or he may hear something, teachings of Kṛṣṇa. So this is the movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā: [Bg. 6.47] "He is the first-class yogi." Who? "Who always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within himself." That is yoga practice. So the bhāgavata-dharma and bhakti-yoga or yoga practice-everything synonymous. There is no difference. But this is the easiest process. Here you will find the students, although they are not exercising the bodily āsana, praṇāyāma, it is automatically being done because the mind is the center of all activities. So mind is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa. That is bhāgavata-dharma.

*So as we have explained several times in these classes, that this concentration is required. And that should be taught from the very beginning of life, kaumāra. Kaumāra means from five years to fifteen years. From sixteenth year, one becomes, one's youthfulness begins, say, up to forty years. Then middle age up to sixty years. Then after sixty years, one is old. This is the definition of different ages. So kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. If one is intelligent, if one is wise... Prājña means wise. If he's a fool, rascal, it is not for them. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta therefore says, kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa caturā. Caturā means very intelligent. Unless one is very intelligent, he cannot understand the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you try to find out intelligent class of men, naturally the number will be very small. If you want that in this street find out some boys who have passed their M.A. examination and Ph.D. examination, hardly you will find one or two. But if you try to find out the illiterate or without any education, you will find many. So we should not judge by the number. We should judge by the quality. What is the quality.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even though you may not find many students, but any one student who has understood this philosophy, he is very intelligent. He is very intelligent. If you like, you can talk with them and you can try to understand what they have understood about the science of God, and you will be pleased. Even a neophyte student, he will answer very satisfactorily. Because as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and you follow the rules and regulations under the direction of your bona fide spiritual master, at that time you become yourself bona fide. And as soon as you become bona fide, the response from within will come because Kṛṣṇa is within you. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Kṛṣṇa does not mean... Just like the sunshine, the sunlight, is everywhere, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. As we understand from the Brahma*-saṁhitā, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham: [Bs. 5.35] "Kṛṣṇa, or God, is within this universe and within this room, within your heart, even within the atom." Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. So Kṛṣṇa is within you. As soon as you become sincere, Kṛṣṇa responds from within. If you want Kṛṣṇa, or God, sincerely, then the help will come two ways: from without, from within. From without, by these books of knowledge, by the instruction of spiritual master, you will get help from without. And as soon as you are serious to follow, then you will get instruction from within also, within.

*It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam: [Bg. 10.10] "One who is seriously engaged in My service with faith and devotion." Prīti-pūrvakam. Prīti means love, not that official. As soon as there is less salary, oh, there is strike. Not that kind of love. They are considered that government servant and very faithful to the country's service, but as soon as a country or government does not pay, everything is rejected. So Kṛṣṇa service does not mean like that, that as soon as Kṛṣṇa Practically, Kṛṣṇa gives everything. One who knows, one who is intelligent, he knows that Kṛṣṇa is supplying him everything. Actually, Kṛṣṇa is supplying, either you give service or not service. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Even those who are not serving Kṛṣṇa directly Everyone is serving Kṛṣṇa but not directly. What is the difference between ordinary man and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness man? The difference is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness man knows that "I am eternal servant of God. Therefore let me willingly serve Kṛṣṇa." And others, they are also serving Kṛṣṇa, but by force, by māyā, by the qualities of nature.

*Just like a citizen of a state who has violated the laws. He is also obeying the laws in the prisonhouse, forced: "If you don't obey, then you will be punished." That is called prison life. And if you become obedient to the laws, then you are not outlaws. You are free, out of the walls of the prisonhouse. So either you obey or not obey, you have to serve the laws of the state. Similarly, either you be Kṛṣṇa conscious or not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you have to serve. But in non*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness condition, you have to serve your senses. And in Kṛṣṇa consciousness condition you serve Kṛṣṇa directly. That is the difference. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. And you serve Kṛṣṇa. Then you become purified. Your senses are purified exactly like the same example, that when a citizen is free and willingly obeying the laws of the state, he is free from contamination. And as soon as he is disobedient, he is contaminated. Therefore he is put into the jail. Similarly, our material existence means that we have revolted against the will of Kṛṣṇa or God. Therefore we are dragging the struggle for existence, and as soon as we become again obedient to Kṛṣṇa, we shall always remember that our characteristic is to serve. So by natural way, if we serve God, then we are happy, and by unnatural way, if we serve our senses, then we are unhappy. This is the difference. Service you have to give.

*So intelligent man, he thinks that "Throughout my whole life I have given service to the lust, anger, and desire, and so many things." We are serving. Always remember that whenever we serve somebody, we do not serve that person, but we serve our lust. Because the person will pay me something, and out of that payment I shall be able to gratify my senses, therefore I am not serving anyone, but I am serving my senses. That is the sum and substance. That is the sum and substance. Similarly, if you serve Kṛṣṇa, the same service is there. Only difference is that it is not service to the sense grati..., senses, but it is the service to the sense proprietor, Hṛṣīkeśa. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīka means senses, and īśa means the Lord. Kṛṣṇa is the Lord of the senses. Therefore His another name is Govinda. So instead of serving the senses, if you serve the Lord of the senses, then you are in natural condition, and that is called bhāgavata*-dharma. So bhāgavata-dharma is nothing unnatural, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is nothing unnatural. It is very natural. Simply you have to change from one platform to another. Instead of serving your senses, you have to serve the senses of God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhāgavata-dharma. Thank you very much. [break]

Devotee (1): In which way one can engage oneself to the best service of Kṛṣṇa, or best use one's time for Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to be guided by your spiritual master. Otherwise how can you know? It is not possible. Any school you go, you have to be guided by the school teacher. Otherwise you don't have any education. So this is also a kind of education, Kṛṣṇa education. So you have to find out a bona fide school, you have to find out a bona fide teacher, and then you learn. That's all. If, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you go to somebody who is engineer, then you cannot have Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if you go to engineer, how to become engineer, you can become engineer. Unfortunately, we have got departments of knowledge in our educational system, but actually there is no department of knowledge where Kṛṣṇa consciousness is taught scientifically. That is the great necessity of the present day. But if you are sincere to learn, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12], it is indicated by the direction of the Vedas, "Then you have to approach a bona fide person who can teach you Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Then you will learn it.



*Woman (1): If you don't pronounce the Sanskrit prayers that are in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, if you don't pronounce them properly or...



Prabhupāda: Why not? You can pronounce them properly. Everything you can learn. Just like I am speaking in English. English is not my mother language, but I have tried to learn it, and I am doing my business. That's all. Similarly, you can learn any language. You can learn Sanskrit. You can pronounce very nicely. It requires learning. That's all.



Woman (1): Would there be any effect if they're not pronounced properly?



Prabhupāda: Well, the pronouncement may be little different. That doesn't matter. Just like I am speaking English. It may not be just like American or Canadian English, but I am doing my business. That's all. That does not make any difference. Nobody is asking me that "Swamiji, you are not pronouncing like an Englishman." They are concerned with the subject matter. That's all. [break]



Devotee (2): How do you teach Kṛṣṇa consciousness to a five year old who is only a children? What it means to be a teacher? What teaching...?



*Prabhupāda: How you are learning? You are also young. Anyone who is completely, I mean to say, unaware of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is to be taken as child. Doesn't matter one who has got age. It doesn't depend on the age. It depends on the knowledge. So not only young children, but anyone who is unaware of the science, he is also child. And anyone who knows this science, he is old. Vṛddhatvaṁ vāyasā vinā. There is a Sanskrit word that "One man has become old even without age." This is contradictory. How one can become old without age? Suppose a man, a boy, is sixteen years old, just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He was teaching Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam when he was only sixteen years old, but he was so learned that when he entered the assembly, all the great sages, including his father, stood up to receive him. So he was oldest. So he was older than his father even. Why? Because he was so learned. So our childishness or experience, old age, means according to the acquirement of knowledge. If one is advanced in knowledge, he is to be understood older. And if one is not advanced in knowledge, he is a child. That's all. So child does not mean that a five years old boy. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was only five years old, and just see how nicely he is teaching. So he is older than any other man. At least, he is older than his atheistic father. So you should always remember that any man who is not aware of a particular subject matter, he is a child in that subject matter. And one who is fully aware in his particular subject-it doesn't matter what is his age*-he is to be considered as a... (end)





690409SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

-

New York, April 9, 1969



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)



*Boys and girls, today I shall explain to you the importance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness as it was conceived by one of the greatest devotees in this disciplic succession. You know we are under disciplic succession. We do not manufacture anything by mental concoction. We do not approve that method. We receive knowledge from the authorities and out of such many ācāryas, or authorities, who have appeared and disappeared... We don't say born and died, no. (laughter) Appear and disappear. This is the actual explanation. None of us, either Kṛṣṇa or we or all living entities, they appear and disappear. It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the battlefield, "My dear Arjuna, either you or Me or all the kings and soldiers who have assembled in this battlefield, don't think that they did not exist in the past and they'll not exist in the future." That means they existed in the past and they're existing at present and they would exist also in the future. That means eternal. Eternal, we are all eternal.

*But this misunderstanding is... Just like we are... Because the passing phase is this body, and the body is changing, and the final change, when you transmigrate from one body to another, it is called death. Actually, there is no death. Na jāyate na mriyate kadācit. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find that the living entity never is born, neither never dies. Na hanyamāne hanyate, hanyamāne śarīre. Then "I see that he is dying." Oh, that is dying not, that is his finishing his this present body. The example is given, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. Just like one person changes his dress, similarly, when this dress, the present body, is unworkable... Just like one man cannot see. What do you mean by "cannot see"? When the power of vision is no longer working or the spectacle is broken, therefore he cannot see. Similarly, when the all the senses will be broken or cannot work... Just like eye cannot, the eyes cannot work, therefore it is blind, similarly, the hand cannot work, the leg cannot work, the tongue cannot work because at the last stage when this mechanical arrangement of this body will stop to function, that is called death. That you try to understand, that as because I cannot see, it does not mean I am dead. Similarly, because the senses of the body cannot function, that also does not mean that I am dead. It is to be understood with little intelligence and with cool head.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, a great devotee, he's in the line of disciplic succession. He's considered one of the great ācāryas. An authority, ācārya. And who is ācārya? Ācārya means one who knows the intricacies of Vedic knowledge and he personally behaves in terms of that knowledge and teaches his disciple in terms of that knowledge. Ācārya means the person whose behavior is to be followed. Not that as we follow somebody according to our taste. Not like that. That ācārya comes in the standard disciplic succession. So ācārya. So this Prahlāda Mahārāja, we are discussing the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja because he happens to be one of the stalwart ācāryas. And the names of such ācāryas, authorized ācāryas, are also mentioned in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam.

*So who are they? Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Svayambhuḥ means Brahma. Brahmā is supposed to be born without any material father and mother. Therefore he is called Svayambhuḥ. He is the only living creature within this universe who is born without the father and mother. How it is? Without the father and mother means this material father and mother. But he has his father. His father is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa. And he's born out of the lotus flower which is grown from the abdomen of Nārāyaṇa. Therefore he's called Svayambhuḥ. Svayambhuḥ means self*-manifested. Because before him, there was no existence of material creation. Therefore he is called Svayambhuḥ. And next is Nārada. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ. Nārada is born out of Brahmā. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ and śambhuḥ. Śambhuḥ is also born of Brahmā. Śambhuḥ means Lord Śiva. So he is also one of the ācāryas. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Kumāraḥ means...

These Kumāras, they are also sons of Brahmā, but they are called Kumāras, brahmacārīs. When they were born... Because Brahmā wanted at that time to create living entities to fulfill the whole universe, so he wanted so many sons and grandsons. So he requested his four Kumāra sons, "My dear boys, you get yourself married and increase generation." But the Kumāras, they said, "My dear father, we are not going to marry. We are not going to be entangled in this material way of life. We shall remain as brahmacārīs and cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Oh, the father was very angry. Oh, you are refusing my order? So when he became angry... Angry means that is Rudra. So from that anger Lord Śiva was born. Therefore he is called Rudra. And he was Rudra, his name was Rudra because he was crying from the very beginning of his birth. So anyway, Rudra is also one of the authorities, Rudra, or Lord Śiva.

Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilaḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Kapila is the son of Devahūti, and he's also considered as the incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ kumāraḥ manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. And manuḥ, manuḥ means the father of the mankind. From manuḥ, the word man is derived. Or, in Sanskrit word, manuṣya. So in Latin and Sanskrit, man, manuṣya, and manuḥ, they are almost on the same level. So svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilo kumāraḥ manuḥ [SB 6.3.20], then prahlādo janako bhīṣmaḥ. So now this Prahlāda's name comes. Prahlāda's name comes. Prahlāda and Janaka, the great king, Janaka, whose daughter was married to Lord Rāmacandra. Jānakī. Therefore, Sītā's name is Jānakī, daughter of Mahārāja Janaka. So he is also a great authority. Prahlādo janako bhīṣmaḥ, and Bhīṣma, you have heard the name of Bhīṣma, the grandfather of Arjuna. He is also one of the authorities. And, prahlādo janako bhīṣmo balir, Mahārāja Bali, a king. He was a grandson of this Prahlāda Mahārāja. He became mahājana. All these persons, they became authorities by their exemplary character for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are considered as authorities. So, balir vaiyāsakir vayam. Vaiyāsakiḥ means the son of Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He's also authority. And vayam, it is, this statement is made by Yamarāja, the controller of sinful activities. Superintendent of police, appointed by Kṛṣṇa. So he is also one of the authorities. How you can deny the superintendent of police as authority? As he is also authority in the state, similarly he is also authority.

*So one of the authorities, Prahlāda Mahārāja, we are speaking today about his instruction. And what is the history of Prahlāda Mahārāja? Prahlāda Mahārāja born in the family of a great atheist. His father was a great atheist, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu means enjoyment in soft bedding. So he was concerned with two things, money and next, sense enjoyment. So that was his business, and he wanted to train his boy in that way. But fortunately, this boy happened to be a great devotee by instruction of Nārada. So this boy, although born in the family of atheist*-his father is great atheist-but because he was bestowed benediction by a great devotee, Nārada, he became a great devotee. Now he took the opportunity of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness where? In his school. In his school. He was five years old boy, and as soon as he would get opportunity he would spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness to his classfellows. That was his business. And so many times the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja called the teachers, "So, what education you are giving to my child? Why he is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? (laughter) Why you are spoiling my boy?" (laughter) You see? So don't think that I am spoiling these boys and girls by teaching them Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that teacher said, "My dear sir, I teach your son very nicely about politics, economics, and as you want, to become very clever man in the material world. But unfortunately I do not know wherefrom your son has learned this Hare Kṛṣṇa. So please excuse me. I am trying to make your son forget this nonsense Hare Kṛṣṇa, but I do not know. By nature, he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and not only he's spoiling himself, he's spoiling my whole school. (laughter) Because as soon as he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, all the boys join with him and they clap and they dance. So this is going on." So he's teaching his classfellows now. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1].

*Now, this Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam which is in this table, this book is a great, grand edition of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Each verse contains eight commentaries by great stalwart devotees. They represent different disciplic succession of devotee. They are... There are four authorized disciplic successions. As I have already mentioned that Brahmā is one of the authorities, similarly, he has got the disciplic succession from Brahmā. From Brahmā to Nārada, from Nārada to Vyāsadeva, from Vyāsadeva to Madhvācārya, from Madhvācārya to Mad... I am making shortcut. From Madhvācārya to Mādhavendra Purī, from Mādhavendra Purī to Īśvara Purī, from Īśvara Purī to Lord Caitanya, from Lord Caitanya to Svarūpa Dāmodara, from Svarūpa Dāmodara to six Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, from Gosvāmīs to Kṛṣṇadasa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and from him Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, and from Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, Viśvanātha Cakravartī, from Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura to Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī, from Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura to Gaurakiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, and from Gaurakiśora dāsa Bābājī my spiritual master, and then we are descended.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!



*Prabhupāda: In this way, the disciplic succession is coming. And what is the specific condition or what is the significance of the disciplic succession? The disciplic succession, if you receive knowledge from the descendants of these authorities, or disciplic succession, then you get the perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is imparted by the supreme perfect, God. And it is received by Brahmā, and the same knowledge is handed over to Nārada. Nārada hands over to Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva hands over to... Just like a ripe fruit on the top of the tree, if it falls down all of a sudden, it is destroyed. But if it is handed over from up to down, down, down, then it comes as it is. As it is. Then you can enjoy the reality. And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



*In the fourth chapter, those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find, that Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. "First of all, I spoke this yoga system to Vivasvān." Vivasvān is the name of the controlling deity in the sun planet. There is also a president. As we have got many presidents, in the other higher planetary systems there is one president, and some of them is called the moon-god or the sun*-god or the Varuṇa according to Vedic languages. They have got... Such post can be occupied by you also if you become qualified. Just like you can become the President. Similarly, you can also occupy the predominating post in the sun planet, in the moon planet, and all the other planets. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, devān deva-yājo yānti, that anyone who aspires after to be elevated to such planetary system which is inhabited by the demigods, they can go.

*So anyway, that is a different story. So Kṛṣṇa says that "First of all, I narrated this yoga system to Vivasvān." Vivasvān means the predominating deity whose name is Vivasvān, Vivasvān. He was instructed Bhagavad*-gītā. And He says, vivasvān manave prāha. "And Vivasvān, this gentleman, he spoke the truth about Bhagavad-gītā to Manu." We have already mentioned the name of Manu. Manu means the father of the mankind. Vivasvān manave prāha, that means the, from sun planet the message of Bhagavad-gītā was handed down to the chief man of this planet, the father of the mankind, Manu. Just like in your scripture also it is said Adam and Eve, similarly Manu. So vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravit. And Manu handed over this knowledge to his son whose name is Ikṣvāku. This Ikṣvāku, he's also a great king. He happens to be the original king in the family in which Lord Rāmacandra appeared. So it is called sūrya-vaṁśa, the descendant from the sun. There are two classes of kṣatriyas. The one is coming from the sun planet, another is coming down from the moon planet. So the history, Mahābhārata, says that the Indo-European stock, they also belong to this kṣatriya family. That is, that's a long history. Now this, this paramparā system This Vivasvān handed over the knowledge to Manu, Manu handed over this knowledge to his son, Ikṣvāku.

*And Kṛṣṇa says in the next verse, evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. In this way, this knowledge was received by disciplic succession and all the rājarṣis... Rājarṣi means the monarch who is just like a sage. You'll get... In the history of Mahābhārata there were many kings. They were all sages. Simply they were, by name, they're monarch. But they were always thinking for the welfare of the citizens. Just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. So this is the Now Kṛṣṇa says, sa kāleneha yogaḥ naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Now this paramparā system, or disciplic succession, has broken by the influence of time. Just imagine it was coming down from the sun planet, and It is, there is every possibility. Suppose I, if I hand over some knowledge unto you and you hand over to some other, in succession, there is possibility that the exact knowledge which I delivered at the beginning, there may be some deviation. That is called breakage of the paramparā system. So Kṛṣṇa says "That paramparā system is, by the force of time, it is now broken; *therefore I again begin that paramparā system with you, Arjuna." Therefore if we understand Bhagavad*-gītā as it was understood by Arjuna, then we get the real knowledge. That is the way of understanding paramparā. Although we are not present before Kṛṣṇa, but if the message of Kṛṣṇa is received through the paramparā system as it was understood by Arjuna, then we get directly the message from Kṛṣṇa. This is the system. But if I interpret in my own way, then the paramparā system is broken.

So our, this paramparā system from Lord Caitanya, as we have given account just now, we do not manufacture any knowledge by our fertile brain. We accept knowledge as it is coming down from the supreme authority. That is the process of... That is perfect knowledge. That is perfect knowledge. Just like we receive knowledge from our parents, "This is called lamp, this is called table, this is called book." If you protest against it, "Why shall I call it book? I may call it something else." You can do that, but that is deviation from the knowledge. So paramparā system is considered to be perfect system of knowledge. Perfect... I may be imperfect or my disciple may be imperfect, but if you stick to the knowledge coming down from the paramparā system, then I am perfect. It is so simple, nice thing. Just like a child. His parent teaches him, "This is called watch, timekeeper, timepiece." If he accepts it, he hasn't got to make a research, that, "Why it is called timepiece?" (laughter) It is very easy system. "My father has told me this is timepiece. I accept it as timepiece," and everyone will understand that this is a timepiece. But if I manufacture some name out of my fertile brain, "This is this," oh, people will call me crazy, "What you are saying?" So the paramparā system is very nice and...

Just like, man is mortal. Man is mortal, I have learned it from my parents or my teachers that man is mortal. Now, if you want to make research worker, work, whether man is mortal or not, it will take long, long time. But you accept it from the authorities, man is mortal, your knowledge is perfect. So this paramparā system of knowledge is given in the Vedic system of knowledge, and this system of knowledge is followed by the great ācāryas, and the Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the great ācāryas. So you try to accept what Prahlāda Mahārāja is advising to his classfellows.

So what he's advising? Kaumāra ācaret prājño. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. He's advising, "My dear friends, Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be practiced from the childhood." From the childhood. So, why childhood? Because if one is intelligent, he says prājñaḥ... Prājñaḥ means intelligent. If one is intelligent, he can understand that "There is no certainty whether this is my childhood or old age." Because generally we think that when we are old we die. But who can say that I'm not old enough to die in the next moment? If I have to gain something supernatural which will give me the ultimate benefit of my life, then why shall I wait for old age? Immediately let us begin. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice thing and if it will give us the highest benediction of my life, then if I am intelligent, then I must begin it immediately. Without any delay. Because generally people think that childhood or youthhood should be enjoyed.

*The Śaṅkarācārya he was passing on the road and he's singing. He was lamenting, what is that? Balas tavad krida sakta. Oh, all these boys are playing. Generally, when you pass a road you see the boys are playing, very much busy, and they're very jolly in playing. Bālas tāvad krīḍāsaktas taruṇas tāvad taruṇī raktaḥ. And young boys, they're after young girls. You see? Taruṇas tāvad taruṇī*-rakto vṛddhas tāvad anta-magnaḥ. And the old man they are very much morose, what is to be done next. Parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ. Oh, everyone is busy. Nobody's interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual life. Everyone is busy. How they are spoiling their life! That is the version of Śaṅkarācārya. He's lamenting, that the boys, the youths, the old man, they are very happy in their materialistic way of life, but a spiritualistic man like Śaṅkarācārya or Lord Jesus Christ, they are unhappy, "Oh, what foolish things they are doing." That is the thankless task of persons who are spiritually enlightened. They can see it plain that how they are spoiling their valuable life. Simply for sense gratification.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is practically instructed the same thing, that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān [SB 7.6.1]. Dharmān bhāgavatān iha Bhāgavatān dharmaḥ. Dharma means your occupational duty. The "religion," word "religion," translation of the Sanskrit word, dharma, is not perfect. Is not perfect. Religion is a kind of faith. That we can change. But dharma, dharma means your occupational duty. You cannot change. You have to execute it. What is our dharma? What is our compulsory duty? I have several times analyzed this fact. Our compulsory duty is to serve. Compulsory duty. Every one of us is serving and all the boys and girls present here can know it. And nobody can deny that he or she is not serving. Everyone is serving. That is our compulsory duty. I may change my faith I am Christian or I am Hindu. I may change myself to become a Mohammedan or Christian or Hindu, but my real occupational duty is to render service to others. That cannot be changed. That is the real enunciation of religion. And therefore in the Vedic system it is called sanātana*-dharma.

*Sanātana*-dharma means that eternal occupational duty which you cannot cease. Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja is advising that, dharmān bhāgavatān. Bhāgavatān means... Bhāgavata means pertaining to Bhagavān. And Bhagavān means to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So bhāgavata is the adjective form of the noun word Bhagavān. Bhaga, real form of the word is bhagavat. Bhagavat. Vat means possessing, and bhaga means opulences. One who possess all the opulences, He's called bhagavat. And from bhagavat this word has come, bhāgavata. So bhāgavata means pertaining to God and His devotees. That is called bhāgavata. Just like this book is called Bhāgavata because it deals only with the subject matter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nothing more. Bas. Therefore it is called Bhāgavata. And you'll find description in this book, the dealings between Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His devotees. So there are two kinds of bhāgavatam. The devotee bhāgavatam and the book Bhāgavatam. And Prahlāda Mahārāja advises that from the very child-hood if one is very intelligent then his duty is kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. One should engage himself in the execution of the duties, occupational duties, in relationship with devotees and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thank you very much. If there is any question? Any question? Hmm?

Devotee: How old was Prahlāda Mahārāja when (indistinct). How old was Prahlāda Mahārāja?



Prabhupāda: Oh, Prahlāda Mahārāja was five years old only.



Devotee: Then how (indistinct) hear from Vyāsadeva?



*Prabhupāda: He learned this bhāgavata*-dharma from the womb of his mother. His mother was instructed... His mother, when she was pregnant, she was arrested by the enemies of her husband, and Nārada Ṛṣi saved her and he took the girl, pregnant girl, at his āśrama and kept her. And as it is the practice of saintly persons to instruct about God, so he was instructing and Prahlāda Mahārāja was hearing from the womb of mother. Yes?



Devotee: (indistinct) Manu was on this planet. Now he's not?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, Manu... Manu's son, Ikṣvāku, was in this planet, but Manu may be in another planet. Just like Manu's father, the sun, sun*-god, Vivasvān, he is in the other planet. Similarly, the population of every planet has increased from one planet to another, like that. So manu's son, Ikṣvāku, he happened to be in this planet.



Devotee: You said Prahlāda Mahārāja, he heard Nārada Muni speaking in the womb. (indistinct) hear you speaking?



Prabhupāda: Certainly.



Devotees: (loud exclamations and laughter)



*Prabhupāda: Why not Haimāvatī's child? Even a lizard is here in this room, he is also hearing. This is transcendental sound. Just like there was a sound, everyone's attention was diverted there. So sound is so penetrating. Sound is the origin of creation. So this is transcendental sound. It penetrates everyone's heart. Because everyone is spiritual being. That is the specific significance of sound vibration. It is said in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, ahaituky apratihatā. This spiritual cultivation cannot be checked by any material impediment. Because the child is packed within the womb, within the belly, under the shackles (circles?) of intestines and so miserable condition... In the belly or the abdomen of the mother, the child remains in a very miserable condition. Because the consciousness is not developed. But as soon as the consciousness is developed at the age of seven months, the child wants to come out. Therefore it moves. If it is male child, then it moves toward the right side. If it is female child, then it moves to the left side. So these are description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So by the movement of the child you can understand whether it is male or female. (woman exclaims) So this transcendental sound is not checked by any material condition. Therefore it reaches. Therefore it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo'bhijāyate [Bg. 6.41]. One who cannot execute the full course of yoga system, he's given chance to take birth in the family of a pious man or a rich man. So, as you parents, you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the child who is coming, he's not an ordinary child. He must have executed in his previous life the yoga siddhi. If you believe Bhagavad-gītā you have to accept.



Devotee: Is Arjuna described in disciplic succession?(?) I mean...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: How come the other incarnations are (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: Arjuna is disciple of Kṛṣṇa, that is known. Then what is your next question?



Devotee: Did Kṛṣṇa describe to Arjuna the disciplic succession?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. He said that "I am speaking to you Bhagavad*-gītā because you are My devotee, you are My confidential friend." That is the qualification to receive this from disciplic succession. That is the qualification. He, he, Arjuna did not go to instruct, yes, Kṛṣṇa did not like to instruct the confidential system of yoga to any so-called impersonalist or so-called Vedantist. Arjuna was ordinary householder. He was, of course, belonging to the royal family. He was a great warrior, that's all, but he did not belong to the brāhmaṇa family or any learned scholar. He was a military man. Then why Kṛṣṇa to discuss the mystery of Bhagavad-gītā to him? Because his qualification is accepted by Kṛṣṇa that, "I am speaking to you that old system of Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna, because you are My devotee and you are My confidential friend." So we have to become a devotee or we have to establish a transcendental relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is possible to understand what is the mystery of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā cannot be understood by so-called scholars by academic degrees. One has to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. One has to become a friend or some way related with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is possible to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise it is impossible.



*My Guru Mahārāja used to say that one who is licking up the bottle of honey. He is thinking that "I am licking honey," but that is impossible(?). Similarly, the so*-called scholars when they comment on Bhagavad-gītā, they are licking up the bottle of honey. The taste of honey is different. That taste one can get when the bottle is opened by (indistinct) person. Then he can taste the Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise licking up the bottle, that's all. If one is satisfied by licking up the bottle of honey, without tasting it. Then is he not a fool? (laughter) The fools say "I have got the honey!" but it is not opened. Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam. Rahasyam, the transcendental secrecy(?) of Bhagavad-gītā. That secret will not be opened to a so-called scholar or academic educated. It must be taken from the (indistinct) authorized person. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. By disciplic succession... Otherwise... (end)



720418SB.HK

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

--

Hong Kong, April 18, 1972



(Prabhupāda leads kīrtana with children. Children pay obeisances at end.)



Prabhupāda:



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*This is a verse spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was a five years old boy, like all these children. Kaumāra. Kaumāra age is called from five years to ten years. That is called kaumāra. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was born of an atheist father. The father was atheist number one, Hiraṇyakaśipu. He is described as rākṣasa, demon, like that. Daitya. Daitya means demon. There are two classes of men. One class is called daitya and the other class is called devata. Dvau bhūta*-sargau loke daiva āsura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. There are two classes of men known as daiva and another asura. Viṣṇu bhaktaḥ bhaved daiva āsuras tad viparyayaḥ. Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are called daiva or devata, demigods. And those who are just the opposite number, they are called daitya or demon. So Hiraṇyakaśipu was atheist. Fortunately, he was so fortunate that he got a great Vaiṣṇava devotee son, Prahlāda Mahārāja. You have heard his name, Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the mahājanas. There are twelve mahājanas in the śāstras. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ.



tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā

nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam

dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ

mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.186]



*The mystery of religious life is very, very secret. Secret means for ordinary man it is very difficult to understand. Therefore śāstra says tarko 'pratiṣṭhāḥ. If you want to learn what is spiritual life simply by your argument, dry, philosophical speculation, it will never be achieved. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhāḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. If you study the Vedas, there are different Vedas. Principally Sāma, Yajur, Atharva, Ṛg. But you cannot understand the objective of the Vedas simply by studying yourself. Therefore Vedas says, Kaṭhopaniṣad, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma*-niṣṭham samit-pāṇiḥ [MU 1.2.12]. Like that. In every śāstra the injunction is if you want to understand the essence of Veda, then you must approach a realized, self-realized person. In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same thing is said. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34].



So Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he was born of a father who was atheist number one, godless, by the grace of Nārada Muni he became a great devotee. So his father was very careful that nobody comes and instructs his son about Vedic way of lfe or God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was very careful not to allow anyone. He appointed teachers for his son, strictly prohibiting about... Just like nowadays it has become, what is called? Secular state. Don't talk of God. This is the present situation of the world, atheist class. Don't talk of God. But they do not know that they have not much improved by don't talk of God. The situation is becoming grimmer and grimmer. But they have no eyes to see. They have no eyes to see. This Godless civilization will not make them happy. That's a fact. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇa manorathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. If one is Godless, then however qualified he may be from the material point of view, he is useless. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇā. He cannot have any good quality. Why? Manorathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. Because he is on the mental platform. So by speculation on the mental platform, he will accept which is not spiritual. Asata.

*Asato māṁ sad gamaḥ. That is the Vedic injunction. Don't keep yourself in the asata, but you try to transcend to the sat platform, oṁ tat sat. That means spiritual platform. So those who have no spiritual knowledge, they are on the mental platform. There are many platforms of our life. Indriyānī parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ manasas tu parā buddhir [Bg. 3.42]. So ordinarily we are bodily, we think I am this body. This is called... Body means my senses. So civilization based on this bodily concept of life are interested only sense gratification. That is their aim of life. Indriya. Sense gratification. And those who are disgusted with sense gratification, they go little higher on the mental platform, mental speculation. Just like philosophy, poetry, like that. Gross means they are working very hard day and night for sense gratification. Just like hogs and dogs. That is stated in the śāstra. Nāyaṁ deha deho bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Ṛṣabhādeva says that this human form of life is not meant for working so hard like cats and dogs. That is not recommended. Ayam deha. But the material world, people are so enchanted that working day and night they think "I am enjoying." This is called māyā. Actually he is working day and night and he is thinking that "I am happy. I am making progress." This is called māyā. So the world situation is very very downward. Don't think that you are making progress. It is not progress. Śāstra says parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long a human being is not interested in the subject matter of ātma-tattva, what I am, then whatever he is doing, he is becoming defeated. He is not victorious. He is defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto. Abodha-jāto. He is a rascal fool. He does not know what is his interest. He does not know that by nature's law,

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*By nature's law we have to transmigrate in so many species of life, from aquatics to plants, trees, then insects, then flies, then birds, then beast, then uncivilized human being. Then we have got this civilized form. Especially those who are born in India. Because in India the varṇāśrama*-dharma is here. India, Hindu, Hindu is a foreign name given by the Mohammedans. Actually our real position is followers of the varṇāśrama-dharma. Four varṇas and four āśramas. This is the stepping stone for civilized life, varṇāśrama. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; *and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This system of social order, I mean to say, spiritual and material, it is so systematically done that one who follows this system, automatically he becomes at the end Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the highest objective. Unfortunately they do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatim hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They are enchanted by the glaring materialistic, material energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



Just like we come from airport to this hotel. This city is very nice. Not only this city. I am traveling all over the world. There are very very nice cities in Europe, America, and other countries also. It is all right. You decorate this city nice, you make your life very comfortable. But if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then you are defeated. Then you are defeated. That is the instruction given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara [Bg. 8.7]. Arjuna did not stop his fighting capacity. He was a kṣatriya. And Kṛṣṇa did not encourage him that you should stop fighting. Rather Arjuna was trying to stop fighting. Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You are kṣatriya. You cannot stop fighting." So don't think that by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious one becomes a vagabond. No. One gentleman talked with me that "Your Vaiṣṇava philosophy has made our country coward." No. You do not know what is Vaiṣṇava. In India there were two great fights. One the fight between Rāma and Rāvaṇa, and the other great fight was between the two, Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas. In both the fighting the hero was Vaiṣṇava. The hero, Hanumānjī, Vajrāṅgajī, who fought on behalf of Lord Rāmacandra, he is a Vaiṣṇava. And Arjuna, who also fought on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he is a kṣatriya. So they do not know what is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.

*Vaiṣṇava philosophy means the Vaiṣṇava is ready to do anything for God's sake. That is Vaiṣṇava. It is approved by God, Kṛṣṇa, then they are ready to do anything. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement everything, our daily routine work will be stopped. No. I am very glad to see that these small children are being trained here in such a far distant place from India. I thank our Bhūrijana Prabhu for this work. But this is the aim for training them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, brahmacārī. If one becomes very solid in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then his further progress of life. Just like I was quoting the instance of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a devotee from the very birth, but he was a great king, he was a great ruler. Dhruva Mahārāja, he was also a devotee from the very beginning of his life, but he was a great ruler, a great king. So do not misunderstand that by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness everything will be stopped. No. Nothing will be stopped. Simply one has to change the consciousness. That's all. Just like Arjuna did. Arjuna was a fighter in the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. He remained a fighter after hearing Bhagavad-gītā. He did not change his position as a fighter, as a kṣatriya. But in the beginning he was thinking non*-Kṛṣṇa conscious. He was thinking of his personal interest, personal sense gratification. But at the end he decided to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. This is the difference, materialism and spiritualism. If you want to satisfy your senses that is materialism, and if you want to satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses, that is spiritual. You have to satisfy. Our position is... (end)



751202SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

-

Vṛndāvana, December 2, 1975



Prabhupāda: ...this table here.



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



Prahlāda Mahārāja, our predecessor guru... There are twelve mahājanas: Brahmā, Svayambhu, Nārada, Śambhu, Kapilo, Kumāra, Manu, Prahlāda, Janaka, Bhīṣma, Bali, Vaiyāsakir, vayam. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. It is said in the Vedas that we have to follow the footprints of mahājana. Mahājana means great authorized devotees. And they have been described, twelve. Svayambhūr means Lord Brahmā; Nārada, Nārada Muni the great saint; *Śambhu, Lord Śiva... Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kaumāra [SB 6.3.20]*-the four Kumāras, sanat-kumāra ādi. Then Kapila, Kapiladeva, Devahūti's son. There are two Kapilas. So one is imitation; *one is real. The real Kapila, He is known therefore Devahūti*-putra, "the son of Devahūti." Devahūti was the daughter of Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. So in this way, kapilaḥ kumāro manuḥ. Then Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja was the son of Hiraṇyakaśipu, the famous demon. So it is not that a demon's son will be demon. That is not. Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be achieved by anyone.



*Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Pāpa-yoni means to take birth in low class family or demonic family. So pāpa-yonayaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says openly, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone, it doesn't matter, even if he is born in a pāpa-yoni Pāpa-yoni means generally less than the śūdras. According to our Vedic system, four classes, varṇāśrama, social and spiritual division, the social division is brāhmaṇa first, then kṣatriya, then vaiśya, then śūdra. This is social division, and there is a spiritual division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This is compulsory regulation for becoming human being. Without varṇāśrama institution there is no recognition of human being. Without being trained up in the varṇāśrama system there is no question of becoming human being. So actually it is not by birth as human being but by culture. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the twelve mahājanas. So he is speaking to his class friends. He was only five years old boy and he took the opportunity of preaching bhāgavata*-dharma whenever he got some opportunity. So at that time Prahlāda Mahārāja's father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, was a great demon. He would not allow Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So still, Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he was a boy, he used to take opportunity for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness among his friends. So in the tiffin hours, when the boys were left free to play, so Prahlāda Mahārāja used to call them, "My dear friends, sit down. Let us talk about Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So he is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is saying to his friends, "My dear friends," kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. The friends were very much anxious to play and Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My dear friends. Don't play. Sit down. Sit down." Why? "A very important subject matter, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, bhāgavata-dharma."

*Dharma, there are many dharmas. Especially nowadays there is Hindu dharma, Mussulman dharma or Christian dharma, or Sikh dharma, Arya dharma, this dharma, hundreds and thousands. But in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is declared, dharmo projjhita-kaitavo atra, atra śrīmad-bhāgavate: "In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam all rascaldom, cheating type of religion, is kicked out." This is bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means bhagavān, bhāgavata-śabda. From bhagavān the word bhāgavata has come. So bhāgavata-dharma means relationship with God, Bhagavān. Therefore you will see in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is Bhagavad-gītā means the dharma or the religious principle preached by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā is bhāgavata-dharma. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is bhāgavata-dharma. So dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Any other dharma which does not teach anything about God, that is cheating, kaitava.

*Dharmārtha*-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41]. Dharmārtha. Dharma, the religious principles, artha means economic development, kāma means sense gratification, and mokṣa means liberation. So above mokṣa there is bhāgavata-dharma. When one has attained actually mokṣa. Mokṣa means mukti, liberation. What is that liberation? Mukti hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpena vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. This is called mukti. Mukti does not mean that after mukti one is finished; *one becomes nirākāra or another two hand grow. Not like that. It is a change of consciousness. That is called mukti. Real mukti means change of consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Actually, every living being is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. So when we forget this position-I do not become the servant of Kṛṣṇa but I become the servant of my society, my family, my nation, my dog, my cat*-this kind of dharma is not mukti. When one understands ahaṁ brahmāsmi, when one understands properly that "I am not this body. I do not belong to any particular nation, family or relationship," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, this is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. So long we identify with particular society or nation or community, then we are not brahma-bhūtaḥ. This is called upādhi-bhūtaḥ, designation. "I am Hindu." This is designation.

Just like gold. Gold cannot be designation. Gold is gold. Because gold is in the hand of a Hindu, it does not become Hindu gold. Or the gold is in the hand of a Muslim; *therefore it is Muslim gold. No. Gold is gold. Similarly, dharma is dharma. There cannot be any Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion. There is no possibility. As soon as you designate, then it is not dharma. It is cheating. That is rejected in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: [SB 1.1.2] "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." That is required. So that bhāgavata-dharma, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatan iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very beginning, kaumāra.

*Kaumāra means from five year to fifteenth year, or five year to tenth year, then kiśora, kaiśora. That is division. So anyway, Just like we send our children to a school at the age of five years, every country. In India also that is the system. When a child is five year, four years, some months he is old, his education begins. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says from the very beginning of education the bhāgavata*-dharma must be taught. This is kaumāra ācaret prājño, if one is intelligent. If one is ass or cow or animal, he cannot understand. Prājña: "One who has known." One who knows the value of life, he is called prājño. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpena jñā. Jñā means one who has knowledge. So he says, Prahlāda Mahārāja, that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. There are dharmas according to country, society, but real dharma is bhāgavata-dharma. That is instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā also. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Who is mām? Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān. You will see in the Bhagavad-gītā, śrī-bhagavān uvāca. So Bhagavān says that "surrender unto Me." Opportunity. Kṛṣṇa comes to give the opportunity. He is canvassing.

*Not only in this universe, in every universe He is going. That calculation is there. Out of four hundred crores of years, Kṛṣṇa appears in one universe. In this universe, when He comes, He appears in this land of Vṛndāvana. Therefore Vṛndāvana is so valuable. This is Kṛṣṇa's place. When He comes here. Just like when the governor goes to a city he has got his own resting house, similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes to teach us dharma... Dharmasya glānir bhava... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. So what is that dharma? This Bhāgavata*-dharma. When the rascals forget what is the relationship with Kṛṣṇa, what is the relationship with God, he becomes entangled in this material affair, māyā. He is harassed, harassed in this way, that he has to take birth one after another, beginning from Brahmā down to the small ant. There are so many varieties of life. So according to karma, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], by superior arrangement one has to accept a type of body. That we are forgetting. We are thinking that we shall remain free like this. That is not possible. Your every inch of activity is being recorded and at the end of life these things will be taken into account, karmaṇā. And by the superior arrangement you have to accept one type of body. Today you may become a prime minister but your activities will be recorded and tomorrow after your death you may have to accept the body of a dog. That is the law of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*These rascals, they are thinking, "I am free. I can do anything and whatever I like." No. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. You have to... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. As you are infecting the different types of modes of nature, you are making your next life like that. So we should be very careful. Therefore the others accept... Because without this varṇāśrama system of religious principles, we can declare, there is no scientific understanding of the modes of material nature, how we are contacting, how we are becoming infected and where is our next life. But if we... Śāstra-caksusat. If you see through the śāstra, then you can understand.



*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*Everything is there in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Unfortunately, we do not take care of it and we make our own interpretation. This rascaldom is going on. And perhaps we are the only society who is proclaiming, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. Take it." We are the only society in the whole world. Otherwise they are all misled, all misled. So anyway, others may cooperate or noncooperate, we don't mind. But we cannot change our policy. Our policy is: Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme; *" we must declare throughout the whole world that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. We shall declare to the whole world that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. There is no more superior anyone than Kṛṣṇa." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We are preaching this. In this temple we are asking eveyone, "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then you will have to think, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," means thinking of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as you hear the name of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And who will do that? Mad-bhakta. Unless you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you cannot waste your time, "Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." That means simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī.



*Now, this worship of Kṛṣṇa... The whole day is engaged for Kṛṣṇa's maṅgala-āratika, for Kṛṣṇa's chanting, for Kṛṣṇa's cooking, for Kṛṣṇa's prasādam distribution, so many ways. So our devotees all over the world-there are a 102 centers*-they are simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our propaganda, always, no other business. We don't do any business but we are spending at least twenty-five lakhs of rupees, twenty-five lakhs of rupees every month, but Kṛṣṇa is supplying. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. If you remain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, fully dependent on Kṛṣṇa, then there will be no scarcity. I started this Kṛṣṇa business with forty rupees. Now we have got forty crores of rupees. Is there any businessman in the whole world within ten years with forty rupees he can increase forty crores? There is no example. And ten thousand men, they are eating prasādam daily. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you simply depend on Him and work sincerely and then Kṛṣṇa will supply everything. Everything.

*So this is practically being manifested. State, example, in the Bombay, now the land is one crore of rupees' worth. And when I purchased this land I had, might be, three or four lakhs. So it was completely speculation because I was confident that "I shall be able to pay. Kṛṣṇa will give me." There was no money. That's a long history. I do not wish to discuss. But I have got now practical experience that you depend on Kṛṣṇa*-there will be no scarcity. Whatever you want, it will be fulfilled. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānām. So be always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then everything will be fulfilled, any desire, if you have got.

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣaḥ

[SB 2.3.10]



*There are three classes of men: akāma... Akāma means devotee. He has no desire. He has no... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Personally he has no desire. His only desire is how he would glorify Kṛṣṇa. That is the only desire. Akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo. He is akāma. And sarva-kāma means the karmīs. They are desiring, "Bring money, bring money, bring money, bring money." They are called karmīs, sarva-kāma. Their desire is never fulfilled. And akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāma [SB 2.3.10], the jñānīs. They want to become united, one with the Supreme, mokṣa-kāma. So Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the mokṣa-kāma Tara madhye mokṣa vāñchā. That is very inferior desire. And Śrīdhara Swami, he has commented on the Bhāgavata verse, atra mokṣa-vāñchā api nirasta. A devotee should not desire even for mokṣa. What is mokṣa? Mokṣa is very insignificant thing for a devotee. Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura has explained, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān. "Mukti, she is standing on my door and flattering me, 'Sir, what can I do for you?' " This is mukti. So why a devotee shall aspire about mukti? No.



*nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

*svargāpavarga*-narakeṣv

*api tulyārtha*-darśinaḥ

[SB 6.17.28]



*Just like Nārada Muni. He is going to the hellish planet also for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So a devotee is not afraid of going anywhere for the service of the Lord. That is devotee. He has no personal desire, simply how to glorify. So this Prahlāda Mahārāja, he is our guru. Out of the twelve mahājanas, he is one of them. So he is advising, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. Why so early, kaumāra? Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very, very rarely obtained in the process of evolution, 8,400,000's of different species of life." After that, we have got this durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. It should not be wasted, living like cats and dogs. Everyone should be trained up in this bhāgavata*-dharma. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. And "Yes, it is important, that's all right. But let me live for hundred years. Then we shall talk about Kṛṣṇa." And Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "No." Adhruvam: "You do not know when you will die. At any moment you can die." Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. Therefore, before your next death, you realize Kṛṣṇa. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. But arthadam. Arthadam means even if you live for a few years and if you take the chance of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, still, you are benefited. You are still benefited.



*So this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is so important that you can think always that "Death is coming. Death is at my door. Let me finish my chanting. Let me finish my chanting." Always you should think like that, that "Death is already coming, so let me chant." So this is called bhāgavata*-dharma, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means bhāgavata-dharma. So you read Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction very nicely and utilize it in your life. Your life will be successful. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760102SB.MAD

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1

-

Madras, January 2, 1976



Prabhupāda:



*śrī*-prahrāda uvāca

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the authorities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the śāstras:



svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



*This is the statement of Yamarāja about the authorities of dharma. Dharma means bhāgavata*-dharma. I think I have explained last night, dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ [SB 6.3.19]. Just like our Mr. Chief Justice gives judgment on the law, so the law cannot be manufactured by any common man or any businessman, no. Law can be manufactured only by the state, by the government. Nobody can manufacture. That will not give us... If in the high-court, if somebody pleads, "Sir, I have got my own law," Mr. Justice will not accept. (laughs) So similarly, dharma you cannot manufacture. Either you are a very big man... Even Chief Justice, he cannot make a law. The law is given by state. Similarly, dharma means bhāgavata-dharma and other so-called dharmas, they are not dharmas. They will not be accepted. Exactly in the same way, law manufactured at your home is not accepted. Therefore dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ [SB 6.3.19].



*And what is bhagavat*-praṇītaṁ dharma? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, we know, everyone. He came, Kṛṣṇa came. His mission was dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, for establishing the religious principles, or reestablishing. Dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. So sometimes there is glāni, discrepancies in the matter of discharging the principles of dharma. At that time, Kṛṣṇa comes. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. Yuge yuge sambhavāmi. So this dharma, Kṛṣṇa did not come to reorganize the so-called dharmas: Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma, Buddha's dharma. No. According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. The dharma which is a type of cheating process, that kind of dharma is projjhita. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita, means it is thrown away or kicked out. So real dharma is bhāgavata-dharma, real dharma. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. Actually dharma means God and our relationship with God and acting according to that relationship so that we may attain the ultimate goal of life. That is dharma, sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana, these three things.

*The whole Vedas are divided into three states. Sambandha, what is our connection God. That is called sambandha. And then abhidheya. According to that relationship we have to act. That is called abhidheya. And why do we act? Because we have got the goal of life, to achieve the goal of life. So what is the goal of life? The goal of life is that, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is goal of life. We are part and parcel of God. God is sanātana and He has His own abode, sanātana. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is a place ever*-existing. This material world, it will not exist forever. It is bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It is manifested at a certain date. Just like your body and my body, it is manifested on a certain date. It will stay for some time. It will grow. It will give some by-product. Then we become old, dwindling, and then finished. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra. of anything which is material. But there is another nature where there is no ṣaḍ-vikāra. That is eternal. So that is called sanātana-dharma. And the jīvas, we living entities, we are also described as eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. And the Lord is also addressed as sanātana. So our real situation is that we are sanātana, Kṛṣṇa is sanātana, and Kṛṣṇa has His abode, sanātana. When we go back to that sanātana-dhāma and live with the supreme sanātana, Kṛṣṇa... And we are also sanātana. The process by which we can achieve this highest goal of life, that is called sanātana-dharma. We are executing here sanātana-dharma.

*So sanātana*-dharma and this bhāgavata-dharma, the same thing. Bhāgavata, Bhagavān. From the word Bhagavān, bhāgavata has come. So this bhāgavata-dharma has been described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is. But at the present moment, with our material connection, instead of becoming the servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa, we have become servants of so many other things, māyā, and therefore we are suffering. We are not satisfied. There cannot be. It cannot fit. Just like you take one screw from the machine. If the screw somehow or other falls down it has no value. But the same screw, when you fit to the machine or the machine is not working for want of one screw, it is in disturbed condition, so you take that same screw and fit it and the machine working and the screw becomes very valuable. So we are part and parcel of god, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], He says, Kṛṣṇa. So we are now separated. We are fallen down. Another example is just like big fire and the small sparks. The small spark is also fire so long it is with the fire. And if somehow or other the sparks fall down out of the fire, it extinguishes. There is no more fire quality. But if you take it again and put it into the fire, again it becomes spark.

*So our position is like that. Somehow or other, we have come to this material world. Although we are a small particle, fragmental parts of the Supreme Lord, but because we are in this material world we have forgotten our relationship with God, and our... Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. We are struggling against the laws of material world, so many other things. Here also we are serving because we are eternally servant. But because we have given up the service of the Supreme Lord, we have been engaged as servant of so many things. But nobody is satisfied, as (the) honorable Justice said, that nobody is satisfied. That's a fact. It cannot be satisfied. It cannot be satisfied because we are constitutionally servant of God but we have been placed in this material world to serve so many other things which is not fitting. Therefore we are creating plans of service. That is called mental concoction. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. A struggle, it is a struggle.

*So we are making different plans but it will not be successful. That much I explained last night, that we are thinking independent and we are planning so many things independently to become happy. It is not possible. That is not possible. That is māyā's illusory play. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī mama māyā duratyayā. You cannot surpass. Then what is the ultimate solution? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. If we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then we revive our original position. That is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means instead of keeping so many things in consciousness... They are all polluted consciousness. The real... We have got consciousness, that is a fact, but our consciousness is polluted. So we have to purify the consciousness. To purify consciousness means bhakti. Bhakti, the definition given in Nārada-pañcarātra... Rūpa Gosvāmī... Rūpa Gosvāmī says,

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*This is first*-class bhakti that there is no other motive. Anyābhilā... Because here in the material world, under the control of the material nature Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartā... [Bg. 3.27]. We are under the full control of the prakṛti, material nature. But because we are foolish, we have forgotten our position, so ahaṅkāra, false ahaṅkāra. This is false ahaṅkāra: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya." This is false ahaṅkāra. Therefore Nārada-pañcarātra says sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So one has to become free, uncontaminated from all these designations, "I am Indian," "I am American," I am this," "I am that." "I am..." Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. When he is purified, nirmalam, without any designation, that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.



*This is ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman. He is described in the Śrīmad*-Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna... Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna recognized and he said, "You are recognized by all the authorities." Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the authorities. I have described the authorities. Brahmā is authority, Lord Śiva is authority, and Kapila is authority, Kumāra, four Kumāras, they are authorities, and Manu is authority. Similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja is authority. Janaka Mahārāja is authority. The twelve authorities. So Arjuna confirmed that "You are speaking, Yourself, that You are the Supreme Lord," mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7], "and from discussion of Bhagavad-gītā, I also accept You Parabrahman. And not only that, all the authorities, they also accept you." Recently, in our time, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, all the ācāryas, they also accept Kṛṣṇa. Even Śaṅkarācārya, he accepts Kṛṣṇa. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the ācāryas.

*So we have to learn from the ācāryas, not any common man or any self-made ācārya. No. That will not do. Just like we... Sometimes in the court we give some judgment from the other court and that is taken very seriously because it is authority. We cannot manufacture judgment. Similarly, ācāryopāsanaṁ, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended. We have to go to the ācāryas. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who has accepted ācārya in the disciplic succession, he knows the things." So all the ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nārada, he accepts, Vyāsadeva, he accepts, and Arjuna also accepts, who personally listened to Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. And Lord Brahmā. Yesterday somebody questioned that "Whether there was the name of Kṛṣṇa before Dvāpara-yuga?" No, there was. In the śāstras there are Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedas, in Atharva Veda and others, Kṛṣṇa name is there. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā-Lord Brahmā, he wrote Brahma-saṁhitā*-it is clearly explained there, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], anādir ādiḥ. Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. And Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. Sarvasya means including all the devatās, all the living entities, everything. And the Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So Kṛṣṇa is the absolute Supreme Person, īśvaraḥ paramam, from Lord Brahma. He is the distributor of Vedic knowledge, and Kṛṣṇa says also, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. This is ultimate goal.

*So the bhāgavata*-dharmam, bhagavān, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. In the list of the incarnation given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is name of Kṛṣṇa also. But at the conclusion, Vyāsadeva says, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. He concludes that "All the incarnation mentioned here, they are aṁśa-kalāḥ, part, partly manifestation or part of partly manifestation." Kalāḥ means part of partly(?) manifestation. "But the name which is mentioned here, Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. [break] Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is accepted by all the ācāryas. And in the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna says, asamaurdhva. Asama: "There is no equal to you, asama, and urdhva, nobody is greater than You." That is God. Supreme means who has no equal, neither anyone is greater than. Everyone is under. That is called asama urdhva. This is there. So there cannot be any competitor of God.

*God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. But He expands in different way. That is explained in the Varāha Purāṇa, svāṁśa vibhinnāṁśa. He expands as Viṣṇu-tattva. That is svāṁśa. And he expands as jīva-tattva. That is vibhinnāṁśa. So we are also expansions of God, vibhinnāṁśa, a small fragmental portion. The qualities are there, very, very small quantity. But the whole potency is there in Kṛṣṇa. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So there is one supreme living being, a supreme eternal, and that is Kṛṣṇa. This is... And to cultivate this knowledge is called bhāgavata-dharma. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he learned this bhāgavata-dharma when he was a baby within the womb of his mother he learned this bhāgavata-dharma. So the devotees-śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ*-they are engaged with these nine different phases of bhakti.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*So they are different devotees who have accepted one of them. Just like śrī*-viṣṇu-śravaṇe parīkṣit. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he simply heard, listened from Śukadeva Gosvāmī the bhāgavata-dharma. He simply heard. He did not do anything else. Simply by hearing. And abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Vaiyāsaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he simply explained bhāgavata. So both of them got the same goal of life, liberation. And liberation means muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa avasthitiḥ. This is called mukti.



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said. Mukti means... Just like a person has fallen sick. He cannot walk. He cannot go to his office or... So many disadvantages. But when he is cured of the sickness or fever, he again comes to his normal life. Similarly, when we come to our normal life, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean, "Now I have got two hands; *I'll get four hands or two heads or five heads," not like that. Simply to come to our normal condition. That is the definition of bhakti also. Real mukti means to be situated in bhakti. That is mukti. Mukti... Simply to understand that "I am Brahman," that is not mukti. That is mukti... That is like convalescent stage. Just like a man has no fever but he is not cured. There may be relapse again. There is possibility of relapse, typhoid fever. So the brahmānubhūti, Brahman realization, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, it is mukti but it is not very secure position. One may fall down again. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukti-māninaḥ. Vimukti-māninaḥ. They think they are Brahma-līna. They think that they have become mukta. But actually they are not muktas. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. He is thinking like that. Why? Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. His intelligence is not yet purified. As soon as it is purified, then it is bhakti.

Therefore Bhagavān says that bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. He is a jñānavān that... Jñānavān means "I am not this body; I am not matter; *I am spirit soul." That is jñāna. Jñāna means there must be vairāgya, detestfulness, that "I have nothing to do with this material world." Jñāna*-vairāgya. If there is real jñāna, then there will be vairāgya. Because we are suffering on account of an attachment to this material world, so jñāna means that "I have nothing to do with this material world because I am not this material body." Everyone is engaged in this bodily engagement, so-called, so many isms, all the activities of the world, because on account of this bodily conception of life. So when one becomes freed from the bodily conception of life he comes to the understanding of Brahman identification, and that is the beginning of mukti. That is not mukti.

*Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as one realizes that "I am not this body, so why I should be interested in so-called social life or political life or this life, that life, because they are all due to this bodily conception of life?" So when one understands that "I am not this body, so what business I have got, this bodily conception of activities?" Prasannātmā, "I have no responsibility. I have no more responsibility with this bodily platform," prasannātmā, he gets relieved of so many engagements on account of this body: "I am Indian. I am a Hindu. I am brāhmaṇa. I am chief of this family. I have to take care of the so many persons," and so on, so many responsibilities. And so he feels relieved: "No, I have no responsibility." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. If he does not identify himself with this matter, then if the matter is lost or gained what he has got to do with it? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Because you have got material attachment, therefore something material lost we lament and something material we do not possess, we hanker. The two kinds of diseases. So brahma-bhūtaḥ means these things are the symptom: he is joyful, prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, and samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then he can see.

*Vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇi gavi hastini, śuni caiva śva-pāke..., paṇḍita... [Bg. 5.18]. He has become paṇḍita. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When these conditions are fulfilled, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]-then he enters into devotional service. So devotional service is not a sentiment. It is most scientific, just to become freed from the contamination of this material world. That means one who is devotee, he is already mukta, he is liberated. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that

māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*So if you want to be brahma*-līna, so that is... Actually brahma-līna means to be engaged twenty-four hours in devotional service. That is brahma-līna. There is not a second vacant without Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me: "I am seeing everything vacant without Govinda." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is thinking simply on Kṛṣṇa. And without Kṛṣṇa, everything is zero. So simply to make the material world zero, śūnyavādi... Just like the Buddhist philosophers, they think śūnyavādi. And the Māyāvādī, nirviśeṣa. They are practically the same. The Buddhists say, "There is no God." And the Māyāvādīs say, "There is God, but He has no head, tail, nothing." It is in the indirect way to say there is no God. What is difference? If somebody says, "There is no God," and if somebody says, "There is God, but He has no head, He has no tail, He cannot eat, He cannot sleep," negatively. The same definition in a negative way. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that veda na māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Our standard of philosophy, especially Vaiṣṇava philosophy... Anyone who does not accept the Vedic principle... Because vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. If you do not accept the Vedic authority, then how you can understand God, Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible. So anyone who says "There is no God. I don't care for the Vedas," he is calculated as nāstika. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said...



*The Buddhists, they decry the authority of Vedas. He had to do that. There was no way. Jayadeva Gosvāmī offered his prayer to Lord Buddha. Nindasi yajña*-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti. In the Vedas there is recommendation of yajña, and in some of the yajñas there is recommendation of killing paśu. So Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā paramo dharma, no killing of animals. So these paṇḍitas, they will give evidence that in the Vedas there is description of killing animals. How you can stop it? So therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Why? Why he did so? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. He was so much compassionate to see unnecessary killing of animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya. Therefore ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. That was his... Although he is the incarnation of God... Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. So the Vaiṣṇava can understand what is Lord Buddha and why he decried the authority of... Because there was no other way. So

*nindasi yajña*-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ

*sadaya*-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam

*keśava dhṛta*-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare



*So a Vaiṣṇava can understand what kind of part he is playing. So in this way there are different activities going on, and they have been taken as different types of dharma. But real dharma is bhāgavata*-dharma. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. That is called bhāgavata-dharma, intimate relationship with the Lord, Bhagavān. Brahmeti bhagavān iti... Brahmeti paramātmā iti bhagavān iti. Tattva-vit. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. There is no difference between Brahman and Paramātmā and Bhagavān. But still, there is difference. This is called acintya-bheda-bhedābheda. There are two kinds of philosophers, bheda and abheda, oneness and different. So these bheda, abheda, combine together. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, acintya bheda abheda, simultaneously one and different. So other gods, they are also gods. We are also god. You are also god because god means controller. Your Honor, Chief Justice, he is also controlling the whole high-court. I am controlling this institution, you are controlling your family or office or factory. So in that sense everyone is god, controller. But he is not Supreme God, that is not. Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa. We may be īśvara, god, but Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. That is the verdict of Lord Brahmā.



*Even Brahmā, he is also worshiping the Supreme God. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. So God is svarāṭ. He is not dependent on any other controller. That is God. We are god, that's all right, but we are controlled even by the material nature, what to speak of other things. So we are not independent. Independent God is Kṛṣṇa. Svarāṭ. He is described as svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. He is not controlled by anyone. That is real God. And we may be god but imitation god or small god. But the great... "God is great." That "great" God is Kṛṣṇa. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that kaumāra. The boys... He was taking the opportunity of teaching his class friend. He was five years old boy and his father was a great demon, Hiraṇyakaśipu: "Don't talk of God." So in this way he was in a very precarious condition. Still, because he was a Vaiṣṇava he was taking the opportunity of preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he was asking...

*The boys were very eager to play and he said, "No, no, no, my dear friends, don't play. Let us discuss something about bhāgavata*-dharma." Therefore he says that kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ: "Don't think that in the old age we shall discuss about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Immediately, in this age," kaumāra a..., "if you are really intelligent." Why? Is there any guarantee that you become old man? You can die at any moment. So take this opportunity. Until the next death comes you take this opportunity in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. There is no guarantee. Why you are thinking that way, that now you are five years old; you will live for five hundred years? No. There is no guarantee. At any moment you can die.

*Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. This body, human form of body, is obtained after many, many millions of years through evolutionary process. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, 8,400,000 species of life we had to come through. Then we have got this body, human form of life, and civilized. Civilized, according to our Vedic conception, a civilized means ārya, ārya. When Arjuna was declining to fight, Kṛṣṇa condemned him, anārya-juṣṭam: "You are just like..., speaking like an anārya, not an ārya. It is your duty. You must do it." Anārya-juṣṭam akīrtiṁ karam arjuna. "You'll be defied by others. Don't do it." So an ārya... Aryan means who accepts this varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58].

*The real aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead, Viṣṇu. So this is the process. If we execute this varṇāśrama*-dharma rightly, then we gradually make progress towards spiritual realization. It is so arranged in that way, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, not by birth but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. If these qualifications are found anywhere else, you should accept that. Even...

*That is explained by Nārada, that yasya hi yal*-lakṣanaṁ proktaṁ varṇabhivyañjakam. Just like in the court, there is no such race or caste as lawyers. Anyone who knows law, he is accepted a lawyer. Similarly, the quality of brāhmaṇa is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, śamo dama titikṣa satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam, jñānaṁ-vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So you can train anyone. Just like you can train anyone as lawyer, you can train anyone as an engineer or medical practitioner, similarly, you can train anyone as brāhmaṇa. That is wanted. That is wanted. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We are trying to train some men as real brāhmaṇa because brāhmaṇa is the head, is the brain of the society. If the society has no brain, it is in chaotic condition. Brahma-jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. So some section of the people must know what is Brahman, what is God, and they should preach all over the world. That is the greatest necessity at the present moment. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to do that although we are captivating or attracting some younger section, especially in Western countries. But Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān [SB 7.6.1]. Training should start immediately from the childhood.

So we are opening one Gurukula in Vṛndāvana to train brahmacārī. First of all brahmacārī. The society, the students should be brahmacārī. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror hitam. Everything is there. Now we have to introduce these things. Otherwise the human society is already fallen, and it will fall down more and more, and it will be hellish condition, and so only hope is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I request you all to take this movement very seriously and try to help us. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause) [break] Any question?

Acyutānanda: Kindly remain seated. Kindly remain seated. We will have some moments for questions and answers which will be followed by our cinema. [break]



*Prabhupāda: So far our philosophy is concerned, we want to be free from sinful activities because in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,



*yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvanda*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ



*We are trying our best to become a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So to become a perfect devotee means he must be sinless. If one is sinful he cannot become perfect devotee. So according to śāstra, this animal*-killing is sinful. Striya-sūnā-pāna-dyūtā yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā [SB 1.17.38]. These four kinds of sinful activities, namely illicit sex, striya... That is also... In our Vedic culture this is common morality. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita even says that mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Anyone, any other woman, the wife of other gentleman, she should be considered as mother. This is civilization. So what to speak of illicit sex? But people are degrading. That is another thing. But this is our standard of civilization. Even a great politician, he says who is paṇḍita? Who is learned?



*mātṛvat para*-dāresu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

*ātmavat sarva*-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



He doesn't say one has to take degrees. By behavior one should be understood. So these four principles, namely illicit sex, animal killing, and intoxication... Yes. So these are sinful activities and our position is how to become sinless. Therefore we do not recommend animal killing. That is not possible.



*Acyutānanda: Another question. (break*-repeating question) This is a world of śakti or energy. There is a worldwide rise in prices of energy resources, like oil, coal, gas, and electricity. This means that there is a depletion of these energy resources. Naturally, there will be worldwide destruction of mankind and other living beings and materials in the near future. What are your views?



*Prabhupāda: So yes, these material things, they are energies. That is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. The petrol is also another form of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Any energy. There are many millions of energies. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do because everything is being done by His energy. Although He is the ultimate source of everything, but He is doing everything by His energy. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svabhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. And it appears that it is being automatically done. Not. It is not automatically done. It is done by Kṛṣṇa's energy. So this material energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. It is not a different energy. Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ. Now, this petrol is liquid thing, so āpa. It is a kind of liquid thing, āpa, so it is Kṛṣṇa's energies. So our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa's energies should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So everything can be utilized for service of Kṛṣṇa. So when you use this petrol for Kṛṣṇa's, spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if we can use one thousand or one hundred thousand motor cars using petrol for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the proper utilization of petrol. (applause)



*Acyutānanda: (repeating lady's question) Kṛṣṇa says to perform your sva*-dharma, so how does one know what is his sva-dharma? Am I correct?



*Prabhupāda: That is sva*-dharma. When Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me," that is your sva-dharma. Because you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, your business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, so I say, "Finger, please come here." He immediately comes. This is the normal condition of the finger. Similarly, if you are really healthy, in normal condition, then you must be ready to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your sva-dharma. If the finger cannot come immediately on my order on my head, that means it is not in normal condition; *it is in diseased condition. (applause) Similarly, when you cannot serve Kṛṣṇa, that is your diseased condition. (laughter*-applause)



*Indian man: ...many incarnations including Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa gave Bhagavad*-gītā. That doesn't means that the author has not given all the gods, whether including Kṛṣṇa... [break]



Acyutānanda: ...nations, so...



*Prabhupāda: So that I have already explained, that incarnation*-whose incarnation? The question will be: whose incarnation?



Indian man: God. God.



Prabhupāda: God's. So that God is Kṛṣṇa. You do not know that. Now learn it.



Guest: Is not Rāma a God?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Incarnation means somebody's incarnation. So who is that somebody? That is Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you do not know it, you understand now.



Acyutānanda: One more question, last question. Is it necessary that a person should pass through the three āśramas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, before coming to sannyāsa?



Prabhupāda: That is the normal rules and regulation, that especially brāhmaṇa, he must go through the four āśramas, first of all become brahmacārī, then gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, then take sannyāsa. This is for the brāhmaṇas. And for the kṣatriyas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, and vānaprastha. And for the vaiśyas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha. And for the śūdras, only gṛhastha. This is the process. This is normal process. But either one is brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vai\ zya and śūdra, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes above these rules and regulations. (applause) Yes.



māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it is giving immediate lift to everyone to come to the transcendental platform, brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate. But general state is varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya, he first of all said, "What is the aim of life?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu (was) asking. So Rāmaṇanda Raya replied that "First of all to begin this varṇāśrama dharma." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra: "Yes, this is all right. But this is external. If you know something better, please tell me." So in this way, step by step, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... This varṇa, āśrama, dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, and karma-miśra-bhakti, jñāna-miśra-bhakti-everything was described by Rāmānanda Rāya, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu not rejected. He said, "It is all right, but if you know something better..." Then at last, when Rāmānanda said... (aside:) Stop it. When Rāmaṇanda said that, quoting one verse from Śrīmad-Bhagavatam, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, that it doesn't matter what you are. You remain in your post. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Through the oral reception if you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then you become perfect. That is the statement.



*So this is required at the present moment, that you remain whatever you are, either brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, Englishman, Indian. It doesn't matter. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you do that, then everything will be perfect. And that can be very easily done by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this mantra*-it is from śāstra-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. In this age, in Kali-yuga, it is very difficult to bring back the fallen population again to the standard of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. It is practically lost now. The best thing is that all of them combine together, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or even less than śūdra, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā [SB 2.4.18]. Take to this process of chanting and hearing of the Lord's name. Everything will be all right. [break] ...entities, we have no such distinction. It is confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu when he was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya. He was a governor of this Madras province under the regime of Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa. And he was politician but he was a very learned scholar in Kṛṣṇa science. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking with him. So because he was a śūdra by birth and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not only very exalted position, brāhmaṇa and sannyāsī... So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was questioning and he was answering, so he felt little hesitation, that "Sir, You are so exalted. I am a gṛhastha and a politican, and how can I..." Immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu encouraged him, "No, no, no, don't hesitate."

kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

*ye kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya



He said, "Don't hesitate. It doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or sannyāsī or brāhmaṇa or śūdra. If he knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru." He is guru. That is wanted. We are teaching that Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious or knows... And Kṛṣṇa also says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti.. [Bg. 4.9].. [break] "Anyone who knows..." (end)





760617SB.TOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1 Excerpt

-

Toronto, June 17, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (first part of lecture missing) ...the mother of Prahlāda Mahārāja (indistinct) of her residence in Nārada Muni's āśrama. So he instructed her. And later on, as women usually forget, she could not utilize the instruction of Nārada Muni, but the child was within the womb of his mother, he heard it from Nārada Muni and became a great devotee. This is the history of Prahlāda Mahārāja's birth. There are many other things. If you read this Seventh Canto, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam... So anyway, somehow or other, he became a great devotee of the Lord. But he was born in a family of atheists. His father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, was atheist number one, but the child was a devotee. Such thing happens. The father is devotee and the child is a demon. And sometimes the father is a demon but the child is a devotee. Everyone comes with his own karma. It doesn't mean that because the father is atheist, therefore the child has to become an atheist. Or the father is a devotee, therefore the child has to become a devotee, no. Everyone is responsible for his past deeds. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was a devotee, but his father did not like that the child should be trained up as a devotee. That was the misunderstanding between the father and the son and the whole history of Prahlāda Mahārāja's life is a description of misunderstanding between the father and the son. The father did not like that the son should be a devotee, but Prahlāda Mahārāja would not give up his devotional service.



*So that city was full of nondevotee class of men, asuras. There are two classes of men everywhere. Asura and sura. Devatā and asura. In Sanskrit language, those who are devotees, they are called devatā, demigod or godly persons. And those who are nondevotees, they are called demons or asura. These two classes of men are always there in this material world. Mostly they are demonic, atheist, and few of them are devatā. But there are two classes. In the śāstra it is said: dvau bhūta*-sargau loke 'smin daiva āsura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. There are two classes of men-godly and atheist. Viṣṇu bhakta bhaved daiva āsuras tad viparyaya. Those who are devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all-pervading God, they are called devatā or demigod, and those who are nondevotee, viparyaya, just the opposite number... Viparyaya means the opposite number, nondevotee. They are called asuras.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja, because he was devotee, although he was five years only old, he was taking opportunity of preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness even during his tiffin hour in the school. So this talking of Prahlāda Mahārāja happened when the teachers in tiffin hour went away. The teachers did not like because Prahlāda Mahārāja's father's strict order was that "This boy is inclined to become a devotee. Please take action that he may not become a devotee." So teachers were afraid. His father was a very powerful king. So teachers also did not allow to talk anything about God. But still, he took the opportunity. When the teachers are gone out of the class and the students are free, he would stand up on his bench and speak about God. So he's speaking; "My dear friends, kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ." The other boys, they said: "Prahlāda, let us come and play. Why you are talking of God now? When we shall become old, you can talk of God." So Prahlāda Mahārāja said "No, we should learn about God kaumāra." Kaumāra means from five years to ten years. Somebody says up to fifteen years. Anyway, kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. Prājñaḥ, if one is intelligent enough, then he should learn about God from the very beginning of life.

*Actually, teaching begins, according to our Vedic system, everywhere, teaching begins at the age of four or five years. Either you teach about material things or spiritual, teaching must begin at the age of four and five. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "My dear friends, it is not that we have to wait up to our old age because there is no guarantee of life. Where is the guarantee that we shall become old? We may die tomorrow or today. There is no guarantee. Therefore immediately we shall begin how to learn bhāgavata*-dharma." Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān [SB 7.6.1]. Dharmān means religion. And specially, he has specifically, Prahlāda Mahārāja says dharmān bhāgavatān. Dharma, religious, religion means bhāgavata-dharma. The other dharma cannot be dharma. Therefore you'll find in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Mam, Kṛṣṇa is bhagavān. If you follow the instruction of Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, that is bhāgavata-dharma.

*There may be other dharma, just like deśa*-dharma or samāj-dharma. There are many other dharmas. Brahma-dharma, this dharma, that... But that is not dharma. Real dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. That is real dharma. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja? Mām ekam. He is bhagavān. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, bhagavān uvāca. Whenever you find the instruction, bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān, bhāgavata-śabda. The original word is bhagavat. So from bhagavat, this sound bhagavān also comes. And from bhagavat, bhāgavatam. The same root is bhāgavata-śabda. So Kṛṣṇa says, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā He says that, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. "When there is discrepancies in the matter of understanding religious system, at that time I incarnate, I come." Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir. Now this dharma, one can say there are so many dharmas, in the different dharmas. But dharma cannot be different. Dharma, religious system cannot be different. If it is... Dharma means from the Bhagavān.

Just like law. Law means it is given by the government. You cannot manufacture law. Law means government law. Not that privately you have manufactured some law; *that will be accepted as law. No, that is not law. Similarly, dharma means which is given by God. That is dharma or religious system. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. In the Vedic injunction you'll find, dharma means the law which is given by God. So you must know what is God and what order He is giving. That is dharma. Otherwise, it is not dharma. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. "In this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam kaitava-dharma..." Kaitava means cheating. "...a cheating type of religious system is completely kicked out in this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām [SB 1.1.2]. It is for the best person. Unless one is the best person, he cannot take up this dharma, bhāgavata-dharma. This very word is there. For whom the bhāgavata-dharma is meant for? In the beginning, so that others may not be misled that "Dharma means whatever I accept, that is dharma."... They are preaching now in India, yata mat tata path. "Whatever you accept, that is dharma." No. Dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Whatever Bhagavān says or God says, that is dharma.

*And God is one. There cannot be different Gods. If God has got competitors, then He is not God. There cannot be Hindu God, Muslim God, Christian God, or other conception of God. God is one. God cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian. So... And His order is also one. That is the instruction in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, God says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Real dharma is to surrender unto God. And surrender and to follow His instruction and become a lover of God. Then it is dharma. It is perfectly clear. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. In another place it is said, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is first-class religion. What is that? By which one can learn how to love God. This is the definition. How to love God. We have learned to love so many things, but when we love God, that is real religion. And that is first-class religion. It does not matter whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian or this or that. There are so many dharmas. But the thing is whether you have learned how to love God. Then it is perfect.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yenātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*That love of God should be without any motive. Motive means generally we go to temple, church, with a motive. "God, give us our daily bread." Or somebody goes to temple, comes here, "Kṛṣṇa, I am in need of this thing. Kindly give me." This is also good because he has come to God. That is confirmed in this Bhagavad*-gītā:



*catur*-vidhā bhajante māṁ

janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna

ārto jijñāsur arthārthī

jñānī ca bharatarṣabha

[Bg. 7.16]



*If one is in need of some money or need of some material necessities, and if he begs or if he prays to God, "Please give me," he's also considered as pious. But real religious system is to understand that God is great, I am His servant, I am supported by Him, it is my duty to serve Him. This is religion. This is called bhāgavata*-dharma, to understand this philosophy, that God is the supreme master and I am His eternal servant. My duty is to serve God. That's all. This is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. And God comes to demand this, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is real religion. We have manufactured so many religious systems, but God says that this is religion. Otherwise, why He would say sarva-dharmān parityajya, "Give up all other types of religion." So bhāgavata-dharma means to accept the Supreme Lord, God, as the great, and we are all His servants. Our duty is to carry out the orders of God.



*So here is the order of God: sarva*-dharmān parityajya... So where Bhagavad-gītā ends, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins there, from that point. So here is another instance. Prahlāda Mahārāja, he is teaching that: kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. Iha, in this life, our only duty is to understand the bhāgavata-dharma, how to serve God. That is the only business. There is no other business. That is the only business of human life. In another place, it is stated tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [1.5.18]. Prahlāda Mahārāja also says here that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. "My dear friends, you have got this human form of body after many millions of years." Durlabha, very rarely. That is nature's law. We are in the cycle of birth and death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma [Bg. 4.9]. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. After death we shall get another body, but we do not know what kind of body we are going to get. There are 8,400,000 different types of body and the life begins from the grass, from the ground. We have seen so many grass. And gradually the grass is eaten by some animals or insects, and then there is semina. Then the same semina becomes insect. From insect to bird, bird to beast, from beast to animals. It takes millions and millions of years to come to the form of human being. This is evolution. They do not know it. But that is the process. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. You must understand that this human form of body you have got after many millions of years. Don't waste it like animals. If we utilize this human form of body just like cats and dogs, what is the difference between my life and dog's life? Therefore he says: durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ tad apy adhruvam arthadam.

*So anyone can say "This material body is there, even to the dogs and the cats, and what is the difference? Let us enjoy." No. Arthadam, in this life, in this human form of life, you can fulfill your mission. Arthadam. You can understand what is the value of life. So don't waste it. Begin bhāgavata*-dharma immediately. And what is that bhāgavata-dharma?

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam

*sākhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*Bhāgavata*-dharma means beginning is hearing. That's all. Śravaṇam. You simply hear about God. You haven't got to do anything. God has given you the ear. You simply hear about God. That is the beginning of bhāgavata-dharma. It doesn't require that you have to pass M.A., Ph.D. examination, then you'll understand God. No. Very simple thing. What God says, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65], you hear it from Bhagavad-gītā. God says, Kṛṣṇa says that "You simply think of Me." Is it a very difficult task? Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. Either you say the image of God... We take God as He is. It is not image of God, but God Himself. He has come here in the form which you can see. God is everywhere, but unfortunately we haven't got eyes to see Him.



*God is everywhere. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭim yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. God is everywhere. Even within the atoms. But we have no eyes. The part of God, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. The little portion of God is there in you and me. The living force. But we cannot see that. So we haven't got eyes to see God. We cannot eyes to see my father, mother. We are seeing the body. When the father dies, we cry, "My father has gone." Where your father has gone? Here he's lying. But he has not seen ever who is his father. Therefore our present eyes are not fit to see spiritual thing. We are fit to see stone, wood, like that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, out of His great kindness, He has appeared before you. You are thinking it is stone. It is not stone. Kṛṣṇa. But because you cannot see except stone, He appears like stone. This is called Deity worship. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that because you cannot see anything except stone and wood or something material...

The material is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is everything. God is everything. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. What is this material world? Kṛṣṇa says, "This bhūmi, this land, āpaḥ, the water, the ocean, that is My energy." There is no difference between the energy and the energetic. Just like the sunshine is the energy of the sun. The sunshine is also heat and light, and the sun is also heat and light. Similarly, this bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, these material things are the energy of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore these energies are also Kṛṣṇa. So if we study about bhakti*-mārga, about Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then we shall gradually understand. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "Begin to understand bhāgavata-dharma, what is God, what He is like, what is His relationship with Me."

*Why you should understand God from the beginning of life? That is explained here: because the human life is meant for understanding God. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand God, but although He has got this material body like us, the cats and dogs body and my body, if we make analysis, there is some blood, there is some muscle, there is some bone, there is some urine and stool. You'll find in the dog's body and in my body. Although these material things I am not. I am different from this muscle or blood or air, whatever it is composition. I am different. That also we can analyze what is this body. This body, first of all, you analyze when there is no breathing, the life is lost. Do you think that breathing is life? No. Analyze it. What is breathing? It is a air only, little air. Do you mean to say when this breathing is stopped you can inject some air by some machine and life will come? No, that will not come. Therefore air is not life. Neither the blood is life, neither the bone is life, neither the muscle is life. Life is different from all these things. That you have to learn. That is called bhāgavata*-dharma.

*So, in this way... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, don't think that it is a sectarian religious system, no. It is a science, bhāgavata*-dharma, the science of Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. We have got so many books to educate people about this science. Not that simply we are talking sentimentally. It is... Everything is scientific reason, philosophy. But the simple method is so easy to perform that anyone can understand very easily. What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya... [Bg. 18.66]. What Kṛṣṇa says, you accept. Then you will understand what is bhāgavata-dharma, what is God, what you are, what is this world, what is the relationship, why you should become a devotee of God. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Try to understand this bhāgavata-dharma and be happy in your life. (end)



730906SB.STO

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.1-2

-

Stockholm, September 6, 1973



Prabhupāda:



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



yathā hi puruṣasyeha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt

[SB 7.6.2]



*I am reciting some verses from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the essence of Vedic literature. It is said nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam [SB 1.1.3]. Just like a big tree. What is the essential thing in the big tree? That is the fruit. Suppose a mango tree. Big mango tree. But what we want from the mango tree? The mango. And if the mango is ripened, still, it is very nice. So it is compared, nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam [SB 1.1.3]. Nigama means Vedic literature. Veda, Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vidoḥ vinte vid vicaraṇe. So vid-dhātu, those who are Sanskrit scholars here, they'll understand. Vid means to know, knowledge. So Vedic literature means to receive knowledge, authoritative knowledge. Not false knowledge. False knowledge, there is difference between false knowledge and authoritative knowledge. So far we are concerned at the present moment, whatever knowledge we are giving or accepting, they are more or less false knowledge. Not authoritative knowledge.



*Just like we are studying the outer space, so many scientists are studying. But still they cannot give any perfect information of all the planets. Although we see, actually, we are seeing daily. Take for example the sun planet. We see every morning the sun is there. But actually we do not know what is the sun planet. There are, may be so many theories, but actually, we do not know what is the sun planet. But we can understand from the Vedic literature. The sun planet is as good as this planet. There are also cities, towns, houses, and population, and it is very big. This information we get from the Vedic knowledge. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, Kṛṣṇa says that, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. "This knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, I spoke first to the sun-god. His name is Vivasvān." Vivasvān manave prāha. "And that Vivasvān explained this knowledge to his son Manu." Manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. "And Manu also explained the same knowledge to his son, Mahārāja Ikṣvāku, King Ikṣvāku." He's the forefather of the kṣatriya dynasty in which Lord Rāmacandra appeared. So we get this knowledge from the Vedas, perfectly.

*There are so many things, just like the forms of life, how many form of life are there. That is stated in the Vedic knowledge. 8,400.000 species. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni. In the water, there are 900,000 forms of life. It does not say one million or eleven hundred or, no, exactly. Nine hundred. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvarā means the living entities which cannot move. Just like the trees, plants, they are also living entities, but they cannot move. They are called sthāvarā. Two millions. Now where is the botanist who can give exact information how many plants and trees are there? But you get fully, full information. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. This is the evolutionary process, from aquatics to the plant life, then insect life, kṛmayo. Rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ means eleven hundred thousand. Pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. The birds, after insects, the next evolution is to the bird species. So there are one million different species of birds. Pakśiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. Paśavaḥ triṁśal-lakṣāni. Then beast, four-legged beast, animals. There are three millions. And mānuṣāḥ catur-lakṣāṇi. And then we come to the form of the human being; there are also four hundred thousand species. In this way, altogether there are 8,400,000 species, forms of life.

*Now modern botanists and medical men and there are so many people, they are scholars, interested to understand, biologists. But here we get the correct information from the Vedas. Similarly, not only of this information, all departmental knowledge, namely this science, geography, philosophy, religion, sociology, politics, whatever you want, you can learn from the Vedic information. There is perfect information. So it is compared with a tree. So that tree, and the ripened fruit is this Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Nigama kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam [SB 1.1.3]. Galitaṁ phalam idam. A fruit, if you take from the tree, if it is not ripened, you can keep in a store and it gets by temperature... That ripened fruit and the fruit actually ripened in the tree, there is difference in taste. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is compared as the ripened fruit. Nigama-kalpa taror galitaṁ phalam [SB 1.1.3]. So we have translated this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is one part, here, you can see. In sixty parts. In the Bhāgavatam there are eighteen thousand verses and we are trying to place before you in English translation, and gradually, in other language also. It is being translated in German language, in French language and Spanish. Gradually. Some of our books are being published by Macmillan company, and they are being distributed. What is the name of that?

Haṁsadūta: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: So we are selling our books very nicely, and our whole institution is practically financed by this selling of books. Even in Indian parliament, we are supposed to be very, very rich community. So, in India there are persons who are very suspicious of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, and they are surprised how we are maintaining more than one hundred branches all over the world. "Where you get financial help?" So, they think that America has got a, what is, CID department?



Devotees: CIA.



Prabhupāda: CIA Department. So they are financing us, America. Just see the foolishness. The CIA department has taken this saṅkīrtana movement. But these rascals are thinking like that; that it is a branch of the CIA Movement. So, being suspicious, some of the rascals raised the question in Parliament in India, that "This community are fabulously rich. So it is understood that they belong to the CIA Department of America. Is it a fact?" It was raised in the Parliament and the question was put before the home member. "So if they are CIA Department, they are pushing on this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement under the garb, then what is government's information? This is first question. If not, where they are getting so much money spending?" In this way two, three questions were raised. Fortunately the home member was aware of our movement and he replied that "They do not belong to the CIA Department. We do not have any such information and there is no need of any action. And so far their finance is concerned, we understand that they are selling their literatures and public contribution." That is the fact, actually. We are selling our books about, three, more, not less than three thousand dollars daily, and that is giving us our financial help. We have no other means of income. Although we have got expenditure not less than one hundred thousands of dollars per month throughout the whole world.



*So anyway, it is our attempt to give you the ripened fruit of Vedic knowledge. This is our attempt. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just distributing the ripened fruit of Vedic knowledge. So Vedic knowledge, the ultimate goal of Vedic knowledge is to know God. Not only Vedic, any scripture, any book of knowledge. So the ultimate goal of knowledge is to know God. If you do not... Because this human form of life is meant for that purpose. That is explained here by Prahlāda Mahārāja: kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. This Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a small boy, five years old. Somehow or other, he was enlightened in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and at the age of five years old, he was going to school and he was trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the school. I'm especially reading these verses because it is university, a school for teaching to the students. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this teaching of this learning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, should begin from very childhood. Kaumāram. Kaumāra means the age between ten years and fifteen years. That is called kaumāra. Kaumāra ācaret prājño. Prājño means one who is intelligent. So from just one child is ten years old, from the age of ten years up to fifteen years, this period must be used especially for understanding Bhāgavata*-dharma, for understanding what is God. That is Bhāgavata-dharma.

Dharma means it is translated into English as "religion." And religion means a kind of faith. But so far the Sanskrit word dharma is there, it does not mean a kind of faith. It is a fact. It is a fact. Faith, you can believe for some time and again you can reject. That is faith. But what is fact, that cannot be changed. Just like water, water is liquid. That is a fact. It is not a kind of faith, it is a fact. You cannot make water solid. As soon as you talk of water, you have got immediate knowledge that it is a liquid thing. Similarly, if you take stone, the quality of stone, it is hard, it is not liquid. If somebody says, "I have brought some liquid stone." Is it possible? No, what is this nonsense. So dharma means that quality which cannot be changed. As soon as you take water, it must be liquid. If... You can say that water sometimes becomes ice, very hard. But that is not the unnatural, uh, natural state. Ice is there, but it is trying to come to the natural state to become again liquid. Again liquid. Because liquidity is the natural stage of water. It cannot be changed. Similarly dharma means, the exact word, Sanskrit, those who are Sanskrit scholars here, they will understand. Dharma means you cannot change. That is not possible. In any circumstances, you cannot change.

*So here it is said, kaumāram ācaret prājño dharmān. Dharmān bhāgavata. So dharma, which is generally translated into English, that is one for everyone. It is not that we are Hindus, somebody else Christians, somebody else Buddhists, "we have got different faith," "we have got different faith." What is depending on faith, that is not dharma, that is not religion. The quality which you cannot change, that is religion. Therefore, the definition of dharma is given in the Vedic literature: dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the codes or the laws which is given by God. This is the simple definition of dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like law. What is that law? Law means the codes or the order given by the state. That is law. You cannot manufacture law at home, that "I have manufactured something." So at the present moment the so-called religion is going on in the name that it is religion but it is manufactured by some concoction and it is being supported by persons that "You can manufacture your own religion." No, that you cannot. You cannot manufacture your own religion. Religion means the codes given by God. Just like law means the order given by the state. Just like the law is "keep to the right." That is given, the order is given by the state. You cannot say, that "Now I have made a law, keep to the left." That is not possible. Nobody will be pleased or nobody will accept that. So dharma you cannot change.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. "My dear friends, from the beginning of your kaumāra age, as soon as you are on the age of ten years,"... Of course, he was preaching when he was five years old. Actually, education begins, that is the Indian system, from five years. Up to five years, the children are not bothered with any kind of education. They play and become free. But as soon as he is five years old, he's sent to the school. And actual education begins from tenth year. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My dear friends, that, you try to be educated in religion, especially in the Bhāgavata religion." Bhāgavata religion means the Science of God, to understand what is God. So why it is so urgent? That is replied here. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. This human form of life is very rarely obtained.

*As I have explained, that, there are 8,400,000 species of life. But unfortunately, there is no proper education how the living entity, what is that living entity and how it is transmigrating from one body to another? Tathā dehāntara*-prāptir. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir [Bg. 2.13]. Kṛṣṇa says, the authoritative knowledge, that, as the soul, dehi, the proprietor of the body. We do not know whether I am this body or I am the proprietor of this body. That knowledge is also lacking. Big, big professors, they do not know. I was talking in Moscow, one big professor, Professor Kotofsky, he said: "Swamijī, after this body's finished, everything is finished." This is their knowledge. Blunt knowledge. No, it is not finished. We get from the Vedic literature, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Nityo śāśvato yaṁ na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is eternal. Soul is eternal and soul does not take birth. The body, we get a new body, that is called birth. And when this body is annihilated, that is called death. So birth and death is in reference with the body, not with the soul.

I don't think in any university throughout the whole world there is such educational department where this science is handled. The soul. Whether I am this body or I'm not the body. I am not this body; *that is the fact. The example is given. What is that? Dehino asmin dehe, in this body there is the proprietor, the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Within this body, there is proprietor. And he's changing bodies. Just like the same soul in a childhood body, in a boyhood body, in a youth*-hood body. Then again in a body like me, an old body. So all the previous bodies, they are now finished. Although I know I am soul, I know that I possessed a childhood body, I possessed a boyhood body, I possessed a youthhood body, that those bodies are not existing. They are finished. But I am existing. I know. Therefore this is very simply formula Kṛṣṇa gives. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. This body is changing, but the soul is eternal. Nityo śāśvato yaṁ purāṇo. Although it is very, very old. Because soul is the part and parcel of God. As God is existing eternally, similarly, the soul is also existing eternally. This is a great science.

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja is requesting, "My dear friends, you try to learn this science," dharmān bhāgavatān iha, "from this very childhood life." Because this human form of life, he says that, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Mānuṣaṁ janma. This form of body... We have got by evolutionary process. It is a chance given by the nature to understand what is God. This is the main business of this body. Not that economic development. That is not the business of human body. Sense gratification. Sense gratification is there in the animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. The human form of life is not meant for to live like the dogs and the hogs. They are busy always for maintaining the body. They are busy. They have no other business. They cannot understand. If I bring some dog in this meeting and try to make him understand, "Please note that you are not this body." It is not possible for them to understand. But a human being, he may be educated like dogs and hog, but if he's given reasonably the, as Kṛṣṇa is giving that the soul is the proprietor of this body and he is as he's changing in this body He's a child-child means he has got a child's body. Baby means he has got a baby's body. Young man means he has a youth's body. So this body has been changed. Similarly when this body is useless, no more can be used, then he transmigrates to another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir.

*Now what kind of body he's going to get? Because I have already explained. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. So the answer is he can get any of these forms. There is no guarantee that he will again get the American body or Englishmen body or Swiss body*-not like that. That will depend on nature. That is not in your hand. As soon as you change your body, the next change will be offered by nature according to your desire. So in this life we are creating different types of desires. Therefore, we find different types of bodies. This is nature's work. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Don't think that you are independent. None of us are independent. We may think independently that "There is no God, there is no nature's work, we are everything." That crazy statements may be there, but there is good management, beyond our conception. As you see there is good management in the natures-exactly in due course of time the sun is rising, the moon is rising, the seasons are being changed, the water is there in the ocean, it is not transgressing the limit, the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean. There is full control of the material nature. And behind this material nature, there is God. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti, nature is working, but nature is working under the direction of God. That we get information from this Vedic literature.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena (kaunteya)

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*Don't think nature is blind. Nature is matter, material energy. It cannot work independently, just like machine. Machine, it is made of matter. But if there is no driver, however efficient machine may be, it is useless, a lump of matter (only). There must be driver. Similarly, whatever wonderful activities you find within this material nature, that is not being done independently. That is being done under the driver. Just like the big car or this airship is running very nicely so long the pilot is there, so long the driver is there. Without pilot, even the arrangement is very nice, good machinery assembly, but it cannot work. Similarly, this nature, although we find very wonderfully working, but behind this nature, there is the living entity, supreme living entity, God. So to understand that God, how He is working, what we are, what is our relationship with God, why we are here, why we are transmigrating from one body to another*-all these are called bhāgavata-dharma. This is called bhāgavata-dharma.



*Bhāgavata means in relationship with God. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bhāgavata*-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means we are presenting God. People are searching out whether there is God, God is dead or alive. But we are giving, "Here is God. Here is His name, here is His address, here is His activities." Everything we are giving distinctly. Not blindly, but there is philosophy, there is reason, there is logic, and these are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sixty volumes. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that everyone from the very childhood, that means when education begins, this bhāgavata-dharma. Otherwise, we are missing the point. We are missing the opportunity of this human form of life. We are simply living like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And if we maintain that mentality like cats and dogs, then next life... Because we are given the opportunity by nature to utilize our consciousness, to utilize our intelligence, to understand God. But if we do not utilize, if we live like cats and dogs, then next life we have to accept, by nature's law, the body of cats and dog. This is bhāgavata-dharma. This is an opportunity. Here is the opportunity to make your choice whether again you are going to be cats and dogs or whether you are going to be elevated to the highest position, back to home, back to Godhead.

*That is highest perfection. Na te vidhuḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. Practically, the so-called civilized men at the present moment, they do not know what is the actual goal of life. The Prahlāda Mahārāja advising, although he's a child, but he has heard from authority, from Nārada Muni, therefore he's instructing his class friend. Because his father was a great atheist, Hiraṇyakaśipu. He was very angry. When Prahlāda Mahārāja used to talk of God consciousness, he was very much disturbed, he used to chastise him, "Wherefrom this nonsense boy has learned this God, God, God?" He was very much disturbed. So he was very afraid of his father at home. But in the school, as soon as the teachers were away, tiffin hour, he would take the opportunity and preach something about God. That is the statement here. So he says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ: "My dear friends, this human form of life is very rarely obtained." Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. Adhruvam means it will also not stay. "Because I have got this human form of body, therefore, I'll live forever." No. I'll have to die like cats and dog. But because I have got this human form of life, I can understand what is the truth. That is my opportunity. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. It will not stay.

*But arthadam. Arthadam means you can realize your self. That is the greatest achievement, if you can realize your self, whether you are this body or you are soul. That is called self*-realization. And as soon as you realize your self... There are many statements in the Vedic literature, that is the distinction between a brāhmaṇa and a kṛpaṇa. These two words are used in Vedic literature. Brāhmaṇa means in full knowledge and kṛpaṇa means who could not utilize the facility of the human form of life. He's called a kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa, the exact word-meaning is "miser." Miser means, if you get some hundred thousands of dollars, if you do not utilize it properly, simply see your money, "I have got this so much money," and be satisfied, then you are a miser. You could not utilize the money. And brāhmaṇa means one who utilizes this opportunity of human form of life to the fullest extent and can understand what is God, what is my relationship with Him, how I have come here, why I am subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. So many things have to be learned.

*So the human form of life is meant for that purpose, but there is no facility in the educational institution. Many universities there may be, but not very perfectly well-situated. But we are trying our bid, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to give education about this bhāgavata-dharma and we are trying to present in so many languages. So we wish that you should cooperate, try to understand this philosophy. We have got books, we have got talks. Any way we can convince you about this philosophy of God consciousness, I hope you'll take advantage of it. Not only that, it is very easy. It is not very difficult. Just like you see all our students, they come from Europe, America. Four or five years ago they did not know what is this bhāgavata-dharma, what is this Kṛṣṇa. Now you can see the result, that all over the world, not only in Europe, but in America, Australia, in Japan, in Canada, everywhere, we have got this type of devotees, and they are understanding what is God, what is our relationship with God. It doesn't matter, God is neither Hindu, Muslim, or Christian*-God is God. So it is the duty of everyone. It is not that only Christians should understand God and the Hindus should understand nobody. No. Any human being. Any living entity in the human form of life must understand. Otherwise, he's missing the opportunity. So we have got to say many things about this thing. In short time, we cannot speak so many things, but we invite you to take advantage of this movement, try to understand the science of God and be benefited. [break]

Girl: ...you cannot change dharma. But love can change dharma.



Haṁsadūta: She said that love can change dharma. You say that dharma cannot be changed.



*Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is dharma. Dharma, as I have already explained, the order given by God. That is dharma. And what is the order of God? God says that "You surrender unto Me." Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. God says that "You always think of Me," and, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, "You just become My devotee," and, man-manā bhava, mad-yājī, "You worship Me, and you offer your obeisances." These things we are doing. We are thinking of somebody. Because without thinking you cannot remain. But God says, "You think of Me." You cannot avoid thinking of somebody. Just like a girl is thinking of his lover, a boy, a boy is thinking of his lover. So we must be thinking of somebody. Or in grown-up stage, I am thinking something else, my child, my home. So Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that "You think of Me." So you have to change your thinking process. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. And we are already devotees. We are devotees of the country, of the society, of the person, of the president, of the king, so many. God says, that, "You become My devotee." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Mad-yājī: We are worshiping our leader. So God is the supreme leader.



*Therefore, this question I put to Professor Kotovsky, that "Your philosophy, Communist philosophy, and our philosophy, where is the philosophically different? Because you have selected a leader, Lenin, and you are worshiping him. And we have selected a leader, Kṛṣṇa, we are also worshiping Him. So where is the change? How we have advanced? You have selected another leader, that's all. You have to select. So the worship must go on. Either you become Communist or not Communist." So God says that "Instead of worshiping so many others, you worship Me." So, and man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. And "You offer my respect to Me." So these things... You may accept any type of religion; that doesn't matter. But think of God, worshiping God, offering obeisances God, that cannot be changed. Either you become Christian or Hindu or Muslim, it does not matter. These four things cannot be changed. Therefore, the principles of religion: thinking of God, worshiping God, offering obeisances to Him, and to become devotee of God, that cannot be changed. That is real religion.

Haṁsadūta: Anyone, anyone?



Guest: But this part of the world "Mahāprabhu" (Address to Prabhupāda) is very materialistic, as you know. In Europe we always talk about science and technology. The part of the world that you come from, spiritualism has the highest place. I would like to ask you is there any possible way of a balanced combination between spiritualism and materialism.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, there is nothing as materialism. Materialism means forgetfulness of God, that's all. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, aparā, prakṛtir me bhinnā aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. Materialism means that you are dealing with earth, water, fire, air, or the ether, or mind, intelligence, so far. These are the subject matters of studying materialism. But God says: "They are My separated energies." These matters, you have not produced this earth, water, air, fire. That's a fact. That is produced by the energy of God. So while dealing with material things, if you remember that this material thing is produced by God then you are perfect. And if you theorize that it has dropped from the sky, then you are materialistic. That is the difference between materialist and spiritualist. A spiritualist knows that wherefrom this earth has come, wherefrom the water has come, wherefrom this fire has come. Then he is spiritualist, God conscious. And one does not know, he's ignorant. Actually, that is the fact. But one who is ignorant of the fact, he's materialist. And one who knows the source of this material elements, he is spiritualist. That is the difference. Therefore the conclusion is one who does not know God, he is materialist and one knows God, he is spiritualist.



Haṁsadūta: Anyone else, question?



Prabhupāda: All right, have kīrtana. (end)





751203SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.2

-

Vṛndāvana, December 3, 1975



Harikeśa: ...tam, Seventh Canto, Sixth Chapter, verse number two. "In this human form of life there is chance to go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore every living entity, especially in this human form of life must be engaged in devotional service. This devotional service is natural because Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of the soul, the Supersoul, is the most beloved being of all other living beings."



Prabhupāda: When the Deity door is open?



Akṣayānanda: We are waiting, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Why? Why you... No waiting.



Akṣayānanda: It's scheduled to open right now.



Prabhupāda: So why waiting?



Akṣayānanda: We're going to wait for your convenience.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Akṣayānanda: For your convenience.



Prabhupāda: No, no. My convenience is not there. We can see later on.



Akṣayānanda: Very well.



Prabhupāda: But in time the Deity door must be open.



Akṣayānanda: We can keep schedule now.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Akṣayānanda (aside): You can inform him.



Prabhupāda: We can go after finishing and offer respect. That doesn't matter. But the Deity must be open.



Akṣayānanda: Yes. It is now.



Prabhupāda:



yathā hi puruṣasyeha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt

[SB 7.6.2]



*This is called sambandha*-jñāna. (bells ring, Deities open) There are three things-sambandha, abhidheya, and prayojana. Sambandha means first of all we have to establish what is our relationship with God. This is called sambandha-jñāna. Any Vedic literature, it is dealing with three things-sambandha, abhidheya, and prayojana. Everywhere... In our relationship with mundane world... You are American. So American means the sambandha, the relationship. You have got intimate relationship with the country known as America. This is called sambandha. Unless you know what is your relationship with America there is no question of fighting for America, because the relationship is there. Similarly, in any country... This is, of course, artificial, man-made sambandha, externally. But the principle, to know first of all our relationship, then act accordingly and then the purpose for which we establish relationship, that is obtained. A businessman, he enters into business contract with another businessman. The agreement is there, that "We shall transact business as purchaser or seller, as agent or as principle." This is called sambandha-jñāna. If we do not know what is our sambandha, relationship with God, then why one should be interested to worship God? There is no question. Therefore sambandha-jñāna is the first principle to understand.



*So sambandha*-jñāna, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is the position between the living entities and the Supreme Lord. In the Vedas it is stated, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānāṁ eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We are related with God because He is the chief leader. Nityo nityānāṁ. We are all nityas, eternal, and He is the chief eternal. From eternal, chief eternal, small eternals come. Just like the sun is the big illumination, and the sunshine is coming from the sun, small, bright particles. It is also individual. But because it is automatic, molecules, we cannot see differently. We see simply the illumination. But it is combination of bright particles, the sunshine. So in this way, nityo nityānām. Kṛṣṇa is the big, bright subject, and we are small particles coming from Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. It is perpetually we are connected. Just like the sun and the sunshine is perpetually connected, Similarly, we are also perpetually connected. Take it any way. Kṛṣṇa, or Viṣṇu, the supreme father, and we are all sons.

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayoyāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



He is the supreme father, and as the father and the sons are related eternally, you cannot be separated. There may be misunderstanding between the father and the son, but the son is always the son, and the father is always the father. That cannot be separated. So our present material condition of life means that we are forgotten of our relationship with God. This is our position. Therefore people are... Some of them are agnostics. Some of them are atheist. Some of them are this, that, so many. They want to forget God. They have already forgotten, and on account of their forgetfulness they are conditioned by nature. The father wants the sons may come back, and the sons have forgotten the father. Therefore the father comes as incarnation. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. Why Kṛṣṇa comes? Not only He comes, He sends His so many incarnation. Some of them are svāṁśa. Some of them are vibhinnāṁśa. Everyone is coming here to canvass, to get back the sons back to home, back to Godhead. In different countries, in different atmosphere the business is going on to reestablish the lost or forgotten relationship with God. This is going on.



*So here Prahlāda Mahārāja recommended in the first verse, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha: [SB 7.6.1] "From the very beginning of childhood one should be trained up to act according to the bhāgavata*-dharma." That is real life. But instead of bhāgavata-dharma, they have created so many false dharmas. So many. So that is our mistake. Real dharma is bhāgavata-dharma, relationship with God. You may call it bhāgavata-dharma or the occupational duty in relationship with God. That is compulsory. You cannot say that "I do not need it." No. That is compulsory. If you are not in bhāgavata-dharma, then you are misled. That is described, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2]. Where there is no question of to understand the relationship with God, that kind of religious system is bogus and cheating. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ [SB 6.3.19]. This is the purport. Therefore it is said that why bhāgavata-dharma should be learned or one should be trained up in bhāgavata-dharma. Because yathā hi puruṣasya: "Of all living entities..." Puruṣasya iha viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam. Viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇa means the same thing, as you say, "back to home, back to Godhead."

*Viṣṇu is original Lord, or our father. We have expanded. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Every living entity is part and parcel of Viṣṇu, and they are separated. Not separated but given freedom to serve Viṣṇu. To serve does not mean no freedom. It is not dull stone. Every living being... Just like you are trying to serve the cause of Kṛṣṇa conscious. It does not mean that you have no freedom, you are like stone. No. You have got freedom but you are utilizing the freedom how to render best service to Kṛṣṇa. That freedom is required. You must have freedom. Otherwise it is a dull stone. We have constructed this temple with freedom that "The temple should be constructed in this pattern, in this fashion. It should be decorated like this." So it is freedom, but that freedom is not misused. It is used for the service: "How best service we can render?" This is the proper use of freedom. And when you misuse the freedom, then it is māyā. That is called māyā. Therefore our freedom should be how to become fully engaged in loving service of the Lord. Viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam. Yathā hi puruṣasya iha viṣṇoḥ pādopasar... Why? It is still further explained, yad eṣa sarva-bhūtānāṁ priya. Viṣṇu is very dear to us.

*Same example: Father and the son. The son is dear to father, and the father is dear to the son, at least so long the child is not grown up to rebel against the father and mother. Just like the small child lying down on the lap of the mother. It does not know anything except mother. So as soon as mother is not there it begins to cry because very, very dear. Mother is very dear. Similarly, the child is also very dear to the mother. This is natural relationship. So we being part and parcel... What is this child? A part and parcel of the mother. From very small body the child has grown. That means the mother has given the body of the child. Therefore it is part and parcel. Hm. What is child? From the mother's body it has developed, and then it comes out and develops again, go on. So yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ priya. Therefore child is... Because part and parcel, therefore the child is very dear to the mother and the mother is very dear to the child, priya. Priya means very, very dear.

*So similarly, our relationship with Viṣṇu is very, very intimate, very, very dear. It is not ordinary relationship. That is being explained. You cannot give up your very dear friend, very dear father and mother or servant. There are so many relationships: śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. In different relationship, Kṛṣṇa is very dear to us and we are also very dear to Him. You have seen the Kṛṣṇa's picture. He is patting the small deer because animal or man, everyone is dear to Him. And for animal or man or everyone, Kṛṣṇa is very dear. This is our relationship. So this artificial way of life, forgetting our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, is condemned therefore. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ... [SB 7.5.31]. Here in this material world it is struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Simply struggle to become happy. Why this struggle? Because they have forgotten that Viṣṇu is, or Kṛṣṇa is very, very dear to him. He, instead of accepting Viṣṇu as very dear to him, he is accepting the māyā as very dear to him. This is the fault. Therefore he is not happy. Therefore struggle for existence.

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that yad esa sarva*-bhūtānām. Sarva-bhūtānām. Not that Kṛṣṇa is very dear only to the human beings. No. Sarva-bhūtānām. Because the relationship is very thick and thin, so Kṛṣṇa is also very dear to every living entity. We have forgotten that. Just like the master and the servant, the crude example, the dog: The dog loves the master because he knows, "The master gives me to eat." He feels obliged. The master takes care of the dog, and the dog is very much anxious to serve the master. Similarly, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Why our relationship...? Because Kṛṣṇa is supplying all the needs of life. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti. We require so many things but who is supplying? Supplying, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is supplying food to the small ant, and Kṛṣṇa is supplying food to the big elephant. Unless Kṛṣṇa supplies there is no food. If Kṛṣṇa does not supply, if there is no production for your subsistence, then how you will live?

*So eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore our relationship is very intimate. Not only my, but everyone, every living entity. Yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ priya ātmeśvaraḥ. Ātmeśvara, ātmā, self. So everyone's self means himself, the spirit soul, is very, very dear. Just like if there is some danger immediately, then we shall leave this place immediately and try to save our body from the danger. Why you are trying to save your body? "No, because it is very dear to me." Why it is so dear? "Because I am living within this body." So I love my body because I am living within the body. Anywhere you take. You love your house, love your home. Why? Because you are living there. So you are loving yourself. Then why you are loving yourself? What is the source of yourself? Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7].

So ultimately I love God. But there are so many impediments. I have forgotten. I am thinking sometimes to love my body, my mind, like that. But real love is because I am spirit soul, therefore I love myself. And why I love myself? Because it is part and parcel of Viṣṇu. Therefore ultimately you love Viṣṇu. But we have forgotten it. In relationship with Viṣṇu we have learned to love... Not love. That is our lust. Real love is with Viṣṇu. Because by nature there is love. Just like the child. It loves the mother. And in the absence of the mother he cries, and when the mother comes he becomes satisfied. So our real love is for Kṛṣṇa but that we have forgotten. And you are offered, "Why you are crying? You take this. You take this. You take this." No. Nothing will satisfy us unless we again come back to love our original source of life.

*Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja was thinking of becoming happy by getting a great kingdom and ultimately when he met the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he found the object of love. He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "No. I don't want anything. I have got now everything. I have seen You." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you get Kṛṣṇa*-Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, the same thing-then you become satisfied. Otherwise there is no possibility of satisfaction. That is not possible. Simply when you get Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's service is the same. It is not Māyāvāda, that we get Kṛṣṇa and we become one with Him. Then that is not satisfaction. That is not satisfaction. When Dhruva Mahārāja saw Viṣṇu he did not say, "Now let me become one with You." No. He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce. There is svāmi, master, and the servant is feeling full satisfaction by seeing the master. This is real satisfaction, not that stop our relation, not that the child is crying and praying to the mother, "Mother, you push me within your belly. We become one." No. It is crying for the love exchange of mother. "Mother, give me your breast milk. I will be satisfied."

*So there is no question of oneness. This oneness is false. There must be separate existence. Then there is satisfaction. A friend loves his friend and the other friend exchanges love. That is satisfaction, not that, "You are my friend and I am your friend. Let us become one." That is not possible and that is not satisfaction. Therefore those who are Māyāvādīs to become one with the Supreme, they do not know what is satisfaction really. Artificially they try to become one. That is not satisfaction. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. The Māyāvādī thinks that "Now I have realized Brahman. I am Brahman, spirit soul. So I'll become one with the supreme spirit soul as soon as this body is finished." Gatākāśa potakāśa, it is said. But that is not real satisfaction. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. They think, "Now I am liberated. I am one with the Supreme." But actually he is artificially thinking that. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Because they have no right information how to become satisfied fully, therefore they are aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Their intelligence is not yet pure. It is impure, again material. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32].

*Therefore you will find the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs*-they come again to serve humanity, to serve animals, to serve, this, that, country, society. This is Māyāvāda. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. He could not stay in the exalted post of being servitor and the served. The Supreme Lord is served and we are servant. Because we could not get to that position, therefore... My position is to serve. I did not like to serve Kṛṣṇa. I wanted to become one with him. Therefore my position is not clear. Therefore, instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, I come back again to serve humanity, community, nation, and so on, so on, so on. The service cannot be rejected. But because aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, not properly trained up, still his unclean state of mind, instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, because he is hankering after giving service but being nirākāra, nirviśeṣa, without Kṛṣṇa, then where he will serve? The service spirit, how it will be utilized? Therefore they come back again-country, society... Once they give up, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "These are all mithyā." But they do not know that actually giving service is real blissful life. That they do not know. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Therefore they fall down, again material activities.

*So these things happened on account of not clear conception of life. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja. Therefore the clear conception of life, how to serve God, Kṛṣṇa, that is called bhāgavata-dharma. This should be taught to the children. Otherwise when he is engaged in so many nonsense service it will be very difficult to drag him from this false engagement and again establish him to the Kṛṣṇa's service. So when we are children-we are not polluted*-we should be trained up in bhāgavata-dharma. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's subject matter. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha durlabhaṁ mānuṣa [SB 7.6.1]. We are serving. The birds are serving. They have got small, kiddie, children. They are picking up food and working very hard and bringing it in the mouth, and the small kiddies, they are chanting, "Mother, mother, give me, give me," and eat food. There is service. There is service. Don't think that anyone is without service. Everyone is serv... A man is working hard day and night. Why? To give service to the family, to the children, to the wife. The service is going on but he does not know where to give service. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ: [Bg. 18.66] "Give Me service. You'll be happy." This is this philosophy, bhāgavata-dharma. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. (end)





760618SB.TOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.2

-

Toronto, June 18, 1976



*Pradyumna: "Translation: The human form of life affords one a chance to return home, back to Godhead. Therefore every living entity, especially in the human form of life, must engage in devotional service to the lotus feet of Lord Viṣṇu. This devotional service is natural because Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the most beloved, the master of the soul, and the well*-wisher of all other living beings."



Prabhupāda:



yathā hi puruṣasyeha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yadā eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt

[SB 7.6.2]



Jayādvaita: Could all the ladies please take their children outside, outside of earshot.



*Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata*-dharma, yesterday we discussed, dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the beginning of life, from childhood, they should be given lessons on bhāgavata-dharma. The bhāgavata-dharma is very clearly indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā should be read very carefully, attentively, from the beginning of life, childhood. Not that Bhagavad-gītā should be read in old age. No. From the very beginning of life. And whole Bhagavad-gītā is bhāgavata-dharma. And when one is well conversant with the Bhagavad-gītā or the lessons of Bhagavad-gītā, then the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins.



*Bhāgavata*-dharma means, as we have discussed yesterday morning, that Kṛṣṇa Himself is explaining bhāgavata-dharma. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi [Bg. 18.65]. The real aim of life is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. They do not know it. Na te viduḥ. Generally, people do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuḥ. All the Vedic mantra says. The Ṛg Veda mantra says, om tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. That is the... Everyone must meditate upon Lord Viṣṇu. Meditation means to think of Lord Viṣṇu within the heart. I think we have seen many pictures that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61], the Supreme Lord is sitting in everyone's heart, and that Lord's mūrti form is Viṣṇu-mūrti. So dhyāna, yoga, all this means to concentrate the mind in Viṣṇu-mūrti. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yogi, what is their business? Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā. Concentrating the mind, meditating upon the Viṣṇu-mūrti. Nowadays, they have invented some system of yoga, some light, something like that. But that is not the sastric injunction. Sastric injunction is to think of Lord Viṣṇu within the heart. He's already there, and we have to search out. That is called meditation. That is called dhyāna.

*But in this Kali-yuga it is little difficult. Why little? It is very, very difficult to sit down in one place and meditate upon Lord Viṣṇu within the heart. Not only sit down in one place*-it is recommended that we should sit down in a sacred place and in a secluded place. Not that it is a fashion, some hundreds of men sitting together and meditating. What meditating? That is not the process. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended to sit down in a sacred and secluded place. That is called dhyāna. And sitting in a right-angle posture and the eyes half-closed. Not fully closed. If you fully close then you will sleep. I have seen so many yogis snoring, sleeping. Yes. Naturally, if you close your eyes and you have no subject matter to think, what will be this, you will sleep, that's all. That is not yoga system. You have to sit down in a secluded place, in what is called, yoga-āsana, straight body and not sleeping, half-open eyes and looking over the tip of the nose. There are so many methods. That is called meditation. But this kind of meditation is very, very difficult in this age. If one can perform, it is welcome, but it is very difficult. In the Kali-yuga, if I sit down to meditate upon, then I shall think of my family, my business, my friend, so many things. It is not possible. Therefore śāstra recommends,

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*In the kṛte, means Satya*-yuga, when people used to live for one hundred thousands of years, at that time it was possible. Just like Valmiki Muni meditated for sixty thousands of years. So actually this meditation, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, the yogic system, it is recommended in the śāstras, the Bhagavad-gītā also it is there, but in this age it is not possible. Even Arjuna denied. "Kṛṣṇa, You are recommending me to undergo the process of yoga, but it is not possible for me." Tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye vāyor iva suduṣkaram. It is not possible. But Arjuna was a pure devotee. He was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. He had no other business. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, to encourage Arjuna, He said that "Don't be disappointed. Because you are thinking that you are unfit to meditate upon Lord Viṣṇu, don't be disappointed. The first-class yogi... You are first-class yogi." Why? Because,



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*Anyone who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always within the heart, he's first*-class yogi. Therefore kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. This is first-class yoga system. In this age, Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, in the śāstra also it is recommended, that harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva [Cc. Ādi 17.21].



So we have to follow the injunction of the śāstra. We cannot manufacture our own ways of spiritual advancement. That is not possible.

*yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na sa siddhim avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



*Anyone who transgresses the regulative principles recommended in the śāstra, śāstra*-vidhi, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya, giving up śāstra-vidhi, vartate kāma-kārataḥ, whimsically does something, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti: he never gets success. He'll never be successful. Na siddhiṁ na parāṁ gati: neither any salvation. Na siddhim, na sukham: neither even any material happiness. So we must accept the śāstra vidhi. Śāstra-vidhi, as in the śāstra it is said, I have already quoted, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt.



kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*In this age the śāstra*-vidhi is hari-kīrtana. The more you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, the more you become perfect. This is śāstra-vidhi. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirmed it. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. We have to be fixed up, first of all, what is the injunction of the śāstra. Then what the sādhus, those who are devotees, what they are doing. What they are doing, sādhu, śāstra, and guru. And what guru is asking. We have to follow these three principles. Sādhu-guru-śāstra-vākya tīnete koriyā aikya. Who is sādhu? Who is abiding by the injunction of the śāstra. Or guru? Guru means he's also abiding by the injunction of the śāstra. Then he's guru, he's sādhu. He's sādhu. And if one, śāstra vidhim, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya... If śāstra-vidhi you give up, then where is the question of guru and sādhu? Na siddhim. He's not siddha. He has not attained the perfection, because he has rejected the principles of śāstra. So he's bogus. We have to test like that who is guru.



tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upasamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



*The śāstra says who is guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. One has to surrender to guru. That is, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One must approach guru. This is vidhiliṅ. Not that it is optional, may accept the guru or not accept guru. No. Must. Gacchet. Gacchet means he must. It is vidhiliṅ. This verb is used where the purport is "one must." Otherwise, it is not possible. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. And who will go to guru? It is not a fashion, that we make some guru and we are engaged in our own business and I can say in the society, "Oh, I have got a big guru who can show magic." No. Guru is necessary for him who is inquisitive of transcendental subject matter. He requires a guru. Not ordinary man. Just like somebody keeps some cats and dogs as fashion. Guru is not like that. Guru means one... First of all, who requires a guru? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One who is inquisitive to know about the spiritual world. Uttamam. Uttamam means ud*-gata tamam: transcendental to this darkness. This material world is called darkness, ignorance. Actually it is dark. Because it is dark, material world, therefore we require the sun. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, we have got the sun. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Savitā means sun. Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyam. This is Gāyatrī-mantra. So who requires a guru? Jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam. One who wants to go beyond this world of darkness. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. This is Vedic injunction. Don't remain in this darkness. Jyotir gama. Go to the world where light is there.



*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtam

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



Yasya prabhā, that spiritual world is full of effulgence. Just like we have got example: the sun planet, sun globe, there is no darkness. There is always light. On account of presence of the sun, we are getting so much light and heat; just imagine what is the position in the sun globe, sun planet. It is always light. This is the example. Similarly, in the spiritual world, it is only light. Not only this light, but the light of knowledge. Therefore śāstra says, tamasi mā: "Don't remain in the darkness." Jyotir gama: "Come into the light."



*So one who requires to go to the world of light, he requires a guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ [SB 11.3.21]. Jijñāsuḥ means inquisitive. Everyone is jijñāsuḥ. We go to the market to purchase something, we are also jijñāsuḥ there. "What is the price of this? What is the price of that?" That is also inquiry. But not, inquiry is not like that, as we go to the market and other material markets. That is also, inquiry is the life*-but material inquiry. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Śreya, śreya means ultimate goal of life. In the material world, there is no question of śreya; it is all preya. There are two things, preya and śreya. Immediate benefit, that is called preya. Just like child. If you ask child to sit down and read book, he would not like. If you offer one lugdu, he will immediately accept. A small child, we see, you have seen: we distribute biscuits and immediately, the small child, immediately he knows how to take it and put it in the mouth. This is called preya, "dear." They do not know anything else. If you give him poison, he will like to eat. This is child's nature. So if you ask the child, "Now you sit down and read books and write," he would not like. That is called śreya. To become educated is good for him for future, but he doesn't like. But if we give our lugdu, immediately he'll accept. This is the distinction between śreya and preya.

*So we must be interested in śreya, not preya. Preya is sense gratification. The material life, sense gratification is only required. This is material world. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi*-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. This śreya, or this preya, very dear things, ultimately, sex life, maithunādi... [break] ...married, the same sex life. Then he gets some children. Then he again grandsons. They go on. Yan maithunādi. Here, the happiness is centered around that sex life. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. And as soon as he enters into sex life, iva duḥkha-duḥkham, one after another, one after another, one after another. So this is preya. But śreya is now to approach the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu. Therefore here it is said, yathā hi puruṣasyeha viṣṇoḥ padopasarpaṇam, how to be engaged in the worship of the lotus feet of Lord Viṣṇu. That is possible. This ṣreya means sense gratification, culminating in sex life. That is available. That will be explained in the next verse.

sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

*deha*-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ



This will be explained.



*So aindriya sukham, sense pleasure, that is available everywhere. Even cats and dogs, they have got sense pleasure. But human life is not meant for that purpose. Human life is meant for, this is the idea: yathā hi puruṣasyeha viṣṇoḥ padopasarpaṇam. This is required. They do not know it. Prahlāda Mahārāja another place said, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Generally, those who are not trained up by guru, they do not know the svartha-gatim is Viṣṇu. Durāśayā. They are trying to be happy with this external energy. Bahir-artha, bahir, bahir-aṅga-śakti. Bahir-aṅga-śakti means this material world. So one who does not know what is the goal of life, they are interested in this bahir-aṅga-śakti, external energy. Therefore guru required. how to get him delivered from the clutches of external energy. Therefore guru required. One who is interested to get out of these activities of external energy, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21], for him, guru is required. Don't make a guru as a fashion. That is useless. Then you get some guru who can manufacture gold, and you are interested in gold, so that kind of guru will be... No. Here it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapad..., tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum [MU 1.2.12]. Tad-vijñāna means spiritual science. For that purpose, one requires a guru. Not for any other purpose.

So Arjuna also showed by example. Although he was talking as friend, he submitted to Kṛṣṇa, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Arjuna was talking directly with Kṛṣṇa. But because the relationship was affectionate friendship, there could not be any serious talk. Therefore Arjuna submitted that "Kṛṣṇa, we are talking like friends; *it will never come to any serious. Now I accept You as my guru." Śiṣyas ye 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam. Kārpaṇya*-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ [Bg. 2.7]. "I am now perplexed." So when one is actually in knowledge, he feels perplexed. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unless one feels perplexed in this materialistic way of life, his human life is imperfect. One must feel that this material world, actually it is not happiness. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu that grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, satya kari māni. "I am minister, I am also born of a brāhmaṇa family." In India the brāhmaṇas are addressed as paṇḍitajī. So he says, grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita kaha ei paṇḍita: "Just like ordinary relationship, village friendship, they call me paṇḍita." Paṇḍita means learned. "I also accept that I am paṇḍita. But actually I am not paṇḍita." Why not? Āpanāra hitāhita kichui nāhi jāni: "I do not know what is the goal of my life." Ask anyone what is the goal of life. He may be Ph.D., D.A.C., he does not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know. Therefore if one is serious about understanding the value of life, the goal of life, he should approach a guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Prapadyeta. Prapadyeta means to surrender. Not that guru should be approached for challenging. No. If you challenge then you'll be cheated. First of all, you must find out a person who if you can surrender there. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. Praṇipāt, surrender, that is required first. If you think somebody that he's not worth surrendering, then don't make him guru. Don't make a fashion. First of all you test that "Whether I can surrender?" Praṇipātena. Then try to understand. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. Not only surrendering, but also render service so that guru may be pleased that "This disciple is very humble, meek and giving service." Anywhere, even in material world, if you want to take something from somebody, if you please him by service, it is very easy. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsa [SB 11.3.21].

*So he says, yathā hi puruṣasyeha viṣṇoḥ padopasarpaṇam yadā eṣa sarva*-bhūtānām. Why one should seek after Viṣṇu? Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. Because yadā eṣa sarva-bhūtānāṁ priya. Everyone's dearmost. That we have forgotten. Actually Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa, He's dearmost. He's also friend of everyone. When we understand this secret, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaraṁ suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. Suhṛdam: He's actual friend. We go to friends for some help, but if we accept the natural friend, Kṛṣṇa, then there is no scarcity. Suhṛdam sarva-bhūtānām. Therefore we should learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, or Viṣṇu. That is the aim of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



680616SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.3

-

Montreal, June 16, 1968



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalacaraṇa prayers) So we have discussed some of the symptoms of this age. There is a long list of other symptoms. We have summarily discussed some of the symptoms over the last few days, and again we are going to the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement of the boy Prahlāda, who was teaching or agitating his class fellows to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.



So, so far the symptoms of this age are concerned, it will gradually deteriorate, gradually. We have got experience also, practical. Things are moving very rapidly toward worst, not towards best. Things are moving very rapidly. This is the symptom of this age. So our program is that they are trying to adjust things. Things cannot be adjusted unless we stand on the spiritual platform, because the actual necessity is spiritual demand. The best example is your country. Materially, you are so much advanced. No other country can be compared. But a section of younger generation, they feel frustrated, confused. Why? They are brought up very nicely. The government system is very nice. They can get education. Everything is complete. But still, they are not happy. They are finding something else which will make them happy. Why? This is spiritual demand. Just like this child cannot express what is the trouble. May be some ant is there within the bedding, and it is cutting on his delicate body, but he cannot express what is the actual trouble. Cries, expression of difficulty.

So this frustration, confusion, is expression of spiritual unhealthiness, because actually we are spirit. That we do not know. Suppose you have got a very nice coat, and within that coat you are actually, so far we are concerned at the present moment. Now, if you simply take care of the coat and shirt, and if you don't take care of your actual person, how long you can become happy? You will feel so much inconvenience even if you have got a very nice coat. Similarly, this body, this gross body, is just like our coat. I am actually spiritual spark. This body is gross outward covering, and there is inward covering: mind, intelligence and ego. That is my shirt. So shirt and coat. And within the shirt and coat, actually I am there.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhiras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*There are many examples. Just like in a nice cage, in a golden cage, there is a bird. If you don't give any food to the bird and simply wash the cage very nicely, oh, there will be always, (imitates bird:) "Chi chi chi chi chi chi." Why? The real bird is neglected. Simply outward covering. So similarly, I am spirit soul. That I forgot. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman." I am not this body, not this mind. So people are trying to burnish the body and the mind. First of all they try to burnish the body. This is material civilization. Very nice clothing, very nice food, very nice apartment, very nice car, or very nice sense enjoyment*-everything is very nice. But that is to this body. And when one is frustrated to this very nice arrangement, then he goes to the mind: poetry, mental speculation, LSD, marijuana, drinking, and so many things. These are all mental. Actually, happiness is not there in the body, nor in the mind. Read happiness is in the spirit. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. The real, the ultimate happiness is that which is beyond this material senses. Ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya. Atīndriya means-indriya means the senses-transcendental to the senses. That means that spiritual. There are many instructions and practical also.



*So unless we go to the spiritual platform, we cannot have actual happiness. That is the instruction Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving, that sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. The happiness perceived by contact of senses or contact of body, sukham aindriyakam... Our present appreciation of happiness is due to the senses, and these particular senses are according to the particular body. Deha-yogena dehinām. The other day we have explained that a hog, because he has got a particular type of body, his sense gratification is to eat stool. His body is so made that he will feel happy by eating stool. Similarly, another man, his body is so made that he will be happy to have kṛṣṇa-prasāda. So that we can make by Kṛṣṇa consciousness [break] ...change the habit of the body. That is possible. How it is possible? By knowledge. The hog cannot be educated. His body is so condemned that it is not possible to educate the hog or the dog or the cat or the animal. Here is a body*-by education, one can become from doggish habit to goddish habit. That is possible.

*So we have to take advantage. That is explained in the first verse by... Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam: "This human form of body, it is very rarely obtained. It is not to be misused." That is the first knowledge. But people are not educated in that way. They are encouraged that go on, sense enjoyment: "Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy." Some rascal comes, so he also says, "All right, go on. Enjoy. Simply meditate for fifteen minutes." But actually, this body is not meant for aggravating sense enjoyment. We require sense enjoyment because that is a demand of the body. If we want to keep body in healthy condition, then the demands of the body*-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending-must be provided. But it should not be aggravated. Therefore in the human form of life, tapasya. Tapasya means austerity, penance, vows. These are the teachings of all scriptures. Either you take Hindu scripture or Christian scripture or Muhammadan scripture, in every scripture human form of life is meant for training. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Lord Ṛṣabha, He instructed His boys. He had one hundred children, boys. So He instructed them, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "My dear boys, this form, human form of life, although it is a body, but this body is in human society." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means Nṛ means man. "So when the body is obtained in the human society, not in the dog society, not in the cat society, that body is not meant for simply working very hard and ultimate sense gratification." That's all.

People are being taught in this way, that "Work very hard day and night, earn money, and enjoy senses, nothing more." So this sort of civilization is condemned. The real civilization is that one has to control. Control. What is the difference between a man and an animal? Now, suppose there is very nice foodstuff. In your country it is not seen. In our India, the foodstuff, I mean to say, confectioners, they very nicely decorate in the street for selling. So one cow is... Here, of course, in the street, cow is also not visible. In India, in the street, there are many cows. They are allowed to move free. And sometimes the foodstuff is there, and the cow immediately grabs the foodstuff and eats half of it. You see? (laughter) Now, there are human beings also. Suppose a man is here. He is poor man, he is hungry, and he wants to eat that foodstuff. But because he is human being, he has got the control. He is not like, I mean to say, cow, that immediately takes up the foodstuff. Even if he is poor, he can beg, "My dear sir, can you spare little foodstuff?" But he'll not... This is human, humanity. Suppose if there is a beautiful girl and one man is attracted, still, he will feel shame to capture that girl. Of course, here I see the boys and girls, they are kissing in the street, and in India it is very uncivil. No boy, no girls will do that because it is a training. It is a training. So by training, one can restrain the senses. And the more you restrain your senses, the more you become slackened for these material shackles.

*So therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "If you think that sense enjoyment is the pleasure of life, that can be had in all sorts of other bodies." The hogs also has got sense enjoyment, the dog also has got sense enjoyment. They are not forbidden. Nature has provided sense enjoyment for cats, dogs, and birds, beasts, everyone. Because that is a demand. So human life... Of course, this should be restricted or as much as possible, as it is available without any extraneous endeavor. Just like we allow our students, "Get yourself married. So by grace of Kṛṣṇa the wife or the husband which you have, just live peacefully. But don't try to encroach upon other's wife or other's husband." That should be restrained. That is humanity. So we have to live very peacefully so that we may not be disturbed in our material existence. But our ultimate aim should be spiritual realization. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha*-yogena dehinām, sarvatra labhyate. If you are after sense enjoyment... Sarvatra means in all species of life. Suppose you happen to get a body, next body, as a hog, as a dog, or even lower than that. That sense enjoyment will be there. But this opportunity will not be there. This opportunity, to make yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious and just to leave this condemned place and go back to Godhead, that opportunity will not be there. That opportunity is for the human being. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param: "Therefore we should not simply waste our time for improving the paraphernalia of sense enjoyment."

The modern civilization is simply increasing the paraphernalia of sense enjoyment. There is no arrangement for advancement of spiritual knowledge. That is the defect of modern civilization. And Prahlāda Mahārāja said that,

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā dukḥam ayatnataḥ

[SB 7.6.3]



*tat*-prayāso na kartavyo

*yata āyur*-vyayaḥ param

[SB 7.6.4]



*If you waste our time which is... Everyone of us should always be conscious that this human form of life, although the body is material and there are so many material demands, so we have to adjust things in such a way that my major portion of my attention or energy may be applied for advancing spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be the motto of our life. Because we have got limited energy, limited life. Suppose you have to live for hundred years. I think nobody is going to live for hundred years, but supposing if you live for hundred years, so your energy is limited, your duration of life is limited. Suppose I am old man. I have to live for, say, eighty years or ninety years. So seventy-two years I am now. That means I have already died seventy-two years. The balance portion of my life I have to complete. We are dying every moment. That is medical science. We are changing every moment body and dying every moment. Death is accompanying me from the day of my birth. This child, if you ask, "How old this child?" oh, it is one month. That means he has already died one month. One month death is already there. We say that he is growing. No. He is decreasing. This is... Actual fact is decreasing. Therefore we should not waste our time. We should be very serious about our life. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Āyur means duration of life. Simply wasted. Simply wasted. Why simply wasted? Because for sense enjoyment, whatever you have to get, that is already arranged. If you are a cat, oh, your sense enjoyment is already arranged. If you are a dog, oh, your sense enjoyment already arranged. Similarly, if you are a human being, your sense enjoyment... If a cat can have sense enjoyment without arranging for it, if a dog can have sense enjoyment without arranging for it, do you think that a human being will not have sense enjoyment without arranging for it? Then why should you waste your time for sense enjoyment? The arrangement is already there by nature. A man or woman has to satisfy his senses. By nature there is arrangement. Rest assured. Don't waste your time for improving sense enjoyment. That means wasting time. You cannot get more than what is destined to you. A dog or a cat cannot get more sense enjoyment than its body will allow. Similarly, we have got particular type of body according to our association of different modes of material nature. Now we have got, say, about hundred men or fifty or sixty men sitting here. Nobody's body will be just equal to the other's body. You examine. Every body is different from other's body. Nobody's face will be exactly the face of the other man. So by nature's process the subtle law is such nice that according to the association of the modes of material nature, you have got a particular type of body. That means you are meant for a particular standard of sense enjoyment. Suppose your body is born in a low family*-you cannot expect sense enjoyment as the higher grade persons, they enjoy. That is not possible. So one should be satisfied: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has given me this body, and He has given me this arrangement of sense enjoyment. Let me be satisfied. My real business is how to advance my Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja advises very nicely, "My dear friend," tat*-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param, "don't exert yourself for increasing the paraphernalia of sense enjoyment. That is simply wasting your valuable time, your valuable duration of life." Because, we must know, the duration of life is limited. That will finish. "As sure as death." And before death comes again, we must prepare in such a nice way-no more death, no more birth. That is education. Therefore Bhāgavata says that "He is not a spiritual master. He is not a father. He is not a mother. He is not a friend." In this way. "He is not a husband." Who? "Who cannot protect his ward from the impending death." That means the father, the spiritual master, the husband or the protector should be so spiritually advanced that he will teach, he will protect his ward in such a nice way that no more birth, no more death. In this life Kṛṣṇa consciousness education is finished so that after leaving this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], after quitting this body, no more birth again. Then what is that? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti ma eti kaunteya: [Bg. 4.9] he goes back to Godhead. This should be the, I mean to say, objective of human life: how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness and how to get away from this uncongenial atmosphere of material existence. Unless we understand that...

But people, they think that they are very happy. This is illusion. This is māyā.

*tat*-prayāso na kartavyo

*yata āyur*-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ

*mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam



(aside:) Yes? So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na tathā vindate kṣemam. Kṣemam means auspicity. The highest auspicity of life is to reconnect his lost relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. This is called yoga. Real yoga means this, that we are, at the present moment we have lost our consciousness. Not actually we have lost our consciousness; we have lost our memory. Consciousness is there, but consciousness may be differently contaminated. Different person, your consciousness may be different from my consciousness. You are thinking in a different way; *I am thinking in different way. Similarly, consciousness is there. That is a symptom of life, symptom of spirit soul. But the difference is due to material contamination. Just like superficially your blood and my blood, the same, red. But if we analyze, oh, there may be so many chemicals present in your blood, and so many chemicals may be present which is not exactly equal. Similarly, as soon as there is life and there is spirit soul, the focus of the spirit soul, consciousness, must be there. I am present in this body*-how I can understand? Because this consciousness. You pinch any part of your body: you feel. This is your consciousness. That means I am present in this body, and as soon as I am away from this body, you may cut this body into pieces-there will be no consciousness. There is no feeling. So our consciousness should be purified. Now the consciousness is contaminated by material association in so many ways. Just like the blood purification tonic is given. If the doctor finds by examination of the blood... In your country, as soon as you go to a doctor, immediately, "Please offer your blood." The demand is immediately blood. That is, of course, scientific, modern science. But according to Ayur Vedic system, there is no demand of blood. They feel the pulse, and according to the different, I mean to say, movements of the pulse, they can understand what kind of disease is there. That is a medical science.



*So anyway, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ: "Instead of wasting your time for increasing the standard of sense gratification, the best thing will be to apply your energy for reviving your original Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam. Na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ mukunda-caraṇāmbujam. Tat-prayāso kartavyo: "That endeavor should be done by which your time is not wasted, but you can revive, you can purify your consciousness, you can revive yourself to your original position, and that is your highest gain."

tato yateta kuśalaḥ

kṣemāyā bhavam āśritaḥ

śarīraṁ puruṣaṁ yāvan

na vipadyeta puṣkalam



*"My dear friends, therefore, so long the body is not fallen or so long death does not come," śarīraṁ, tato yateta kuśalam, "you must try for the highest benediction, kuśalaḥ." Kuśala means benediction. "So long you are in this body, please try to achieve that success, full Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyus tad*-ardhaṁ cājitātmanaḥ [SB 7.6.6]. Now, supposing that we have got hundred years of age. Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that although you have got one hundred years to live, but because we cannot control our senses, therefore it should be taken half, fifty years. Why? Now, because out of twenty-four hours, we sleep more than twelve hours. So while we sleep, there is no activity. So immediately you cut off fifty years because you cannot work. Although you have got duration of life, one hundred years, but you cannot work one hundred years. Fifty years immediately cut off on account of ajitātmanaḥ. Ajitātmanaḥ means one who has not controlled the senses. So every one of us cannot control, most of us. Therefore half of the age is immediately cut off. Niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ. Why it is cut off? "Because without any profit we sleep very soundly, and therefore it is simply wasted." Then mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīḍato yāti viṁśatiḥ [SB 7.6.7]. Then suppose there is fifty years balance, oh, sufficient balance. Then he says, bālye kaiśore. Bālye means up to five years. And from five years to eleven years, bālye kaiśore. Because children generally from five years to twelve, thirteen years they are very fond of playing. So niṣphalaṁ mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīḍato yāti viṁśatiḥ: [SB 7.6.7] "Twenty years is wasted simply for playing." So half duration of life immediately cut off. Then again, out of that fifty years, again twenty years cut off. Then jarayā grasta-dehasya yāty akalpasya viṁśatiḥ. Then cut off another twenty years due to old age, invalidity, and so many other, accident, and so many other things. So it is cutting, cutting, cutting.



durāpūreṇa kāmena

mohena ca balīyasā

śeṣam gṛheṣu saktasya

pramattasyāpayāti hi

[SB 7.6.8]



*"In this way, when a man is too much addicted to the materialistic way of life, cannot give up the family life..." You'll find many old men, almost going to die, but still, there is family attachment. It is very difficult to get out of family attachment. Although the other members, his wife, his son, disgusted with the old man, and all of them want that "This old man may die very soon. He is simply bothering us," but the old man tries to live: "Oh, let me live for some time. Don't drive me away." I understand that in Russia they intentionally try to kill these old men (laughter). And in Africa, I have heard, there are still cannibals. They make a feast by killing the grandfather. (laughter) So old man is always neglected in the society, and therefore I have come out of my home. I have taken your shelter. You see? (laughter) It is actually a fact. You see? So in this way we are wasting our time. Śaṅkarācārya, he was walking on the street and he was lamenting because he has got the eyes to see. What he said? He said, "Oh," bālas tāvad kridāsaktaḥ, "oh, all the boys I see in the street, they are very nicely playing. They do not know anything except play." Bālas tāvad kridāsaktas taruṇas tāvad taruṇī raktaḥ: "And the young, youngsters, they are after young girls, embracing, kissing. That's all." So taruṇas tāvad taruṇī raktaḥ. And vṛddhas tāvad cintā*-magnaḥ: "And the old men, they are thinking, 'How to pull on? What to do? How to adjust family affairs?' " Parame brāhmaṇe ko 'pi lagnaḥ: "Oh, it is very lamentable. Nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He is lamenting because he has got to... He was seeing practically. A sannyāsī is supposed to wander from one country, one village to another. So he is lamenting, bālas tāvad kridāsaktaḥ: "Oh, boys are playing. They are not being trained in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The youths, they are very much enjoying. So the old men, they are thinking, deep, thoughtful, the same thing. But nobody is interested."



So same thing:

durāpūreṇa kāmena

mohena ca balīyasā

śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya

pramattasyāpayāti hi

[SB 7.6.8]



*At the last end the old men... Because this material world is such nice place that nobody can adjust things. It is simply waste of time, who are trying to adjust things. The other day, in television or radio, the man asked me, "Swamijī, whether it is possible to adjust the misadjustments of this material world?" I told him flatly that it is not possible. You can simply refer the history that the same thing is... "History repeats itself." When there was Roman Empire, Mogul Empire, the same strife, the same political dissension, the same fight. Everything was there two thousand years before, as history gives us evidence, and the same thing is happening also. So there is no adjustment. The only adjustment is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long your life is there, you just improve, revive your original consciousness. What is that? "Kṛṣṇa, or the Lord, or God, is very great. I am His eternal servant." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Kṛṣṇa" means the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and "I" means I am His eternal part and parcel. Every one of us*-servant. Everyone. Now, you are all, boys, ladies and gentlemen, sitting here. Nobody can say that "I am not servant." Everyone is servant. Everyone is servant. If he is not servant to anyone, at least he is servant of a dog. You see?



*So servant we are, but we are thinking, "I am master." This is māyā. This is māyā. Actually I am servant. I am serving this, that, that*-so many. Even President Johnson, he is also servant of the nation. So nobody is master. Similarly, if you take president, if you go higher, if you go up to Brahmā, if you go still more, more-everyone is servant. Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is very nicely said that ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya: [Cc. Ādi 5.142] "The only one master is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is servant." The only one master is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all other living entities, they are all servant. He may be a Brahmā, he may be a president, he may be a minister, or he may be a cat, or he may be a dog, or whatever he may be, everyone is servant. And to understand this philosophy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not very difficult. It is not very difficult. If we understand our position, that māyā's spell is so nice that everyone is thinking, "I am master," "I am president," "I am minister," "I am teacher," "I am philosopher," "I am scientist," "I am this," "I am that," at last, "I am God." (laughter) When everything fails, when everything fails, he thinks, "Oh, I am God," although he is still a dog. You see? This is called māyā. And to get out of māyā means to understand one's position, that "I am eternal servant." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the further advancement of this understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that "If I am constitutionally a servant, then what sort of service I am rendering?" Oh, kāmādināṁ kati na katidhā palita durnideśāḥ: "I have become servant of my lust, of my greediness, of my avarice, of my anger, of my senses." That's all. I have become servant of all these things. Actually I am nobody's servant, but I am servant of my senses. When I go to work somewhere, actually I do not believe that I am a servant, but I go there to get money. So I am servant of money. And why I require money? For sense gratification. Therefore I am servant of senses.

*So actually I am now servant of senses, everyone. So that has to be transferred. Instead of being servant of the senses, of your so*-called material body, you have to become the servant of the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means agreeing, "Kṛṣṇa, whatever You will say, whatever You like, I shall do that." Just like Arjuna did. First of all he was a servant of his senses. He was thinking, "How can I kill my teachers? How can I kill my grandfather, my brother, nephews, the other side, all my relatives? How can I kill?" So that was, that thinking was, he was servant of his senses. He was thinking that "This father, this brother or this grandfather, or this teacher will save me." But when he understood that "Nobody can save me except Kṛṣṇa," then he said, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Oh, I shall satisfy You. Whatever You will say." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all he was trying to satisfy his senses, and when he understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely, he agreed to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa.

So constitutionally we are all servant for satisfying senses. So when instead of satisfying our false senses, this material body, sense of this material body, if we try to satisfy the spiritual senses of Kṛṣṇa, that means our liberation. That we have to learn. Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching that philosophy. We are trying to follow the same philosophy. We are very glad that you come and favor us. So it is very kind of you.

Now if there is any question you may ask.

Guest (1): Swamijī, I'm always confused by the term "serving God," "serving Kṛṣṇa."



Prabhupāda: You are?



Guest (1): It's confusing to me.



Prabhupāda: It is confusing?



Guest (1): Yes. I can understand how I can serve my own senses or how I can serve another man, but serving God...



Prabhupāda: You are serving your senses means you are serving the dictation of your senses. Is it not? Similarly, if you serve the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, then you serve Kṛṣṇa. You are serving your senses means your eyes want to see a beautiful thing, dictates, "My dear sir, please take me to that beautiful...," you go. So you are serving your dictation of the sense gratification of the eyes. Your tongue is pinching you, "Please give me a cigarette." Oh, you at once supply: "Yes." So you are serving your senses means the dictation of your senses. Similarly, if you practice to serve the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated. Simply you have to change the account. Your service position will continue because we are eternally servants. We are never master.



Guest (1): Well, when I... Serving my senses...



Prabhupāda: Then you are conditioned.



Guest (1): ...attempting to satisfy them. Right?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is for satisfaction. But if you, sense... If you falsely satisfy your senses... Just like suppose you are a diseased man, if you have got fever and you want to eat some delicious food. The doctor has forbidden you, "Don't accept such and such food," but your senses demand that "If I could eat such and such thing," then you become more diseased. So first of all we should understand that because I have got this body, it is my diseased condition, because I am spirit soul. I have developed this particular type of body for this gratification of false material senses. You cannot satisfy your senses because this is false satisfaction. Because actually this body, you are not this body. Therefore even you try to satisfy your senses, that is flickering and that is temporary. But actual sense enjoyment is spiritual sense enjoyment that has no end, that has no limit. Brahma*-saukhyaṁ tad anantam, unlimited. Just like a diseased man, if you give a nice foodstuff, he cannot eat much. After tasting, "All right, that's all." Finished. Because he is diseased. And give to a healthy man, oh, he will take so much. This is a crude example. Similarly, when you are spiritually purified, then actually you can make your sense enjoyment. When you are materially contaminated, that is false, temporary, increasing your material disease.



Guest (1): So by serving Kṛṣṇa, serving...



Prabhupāda: By serving Kṛṣṇa you will also satisfy your senses. Kṛṣṇa's name is Govinda. Go means senses, and vinda means one who gives pleasure to the senses. Do you mean to say that here the boys who are giving service to the, I mean to say, Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, they are not enjoying? Without enjoying can they serve free? They are giving service free. Whenever you go to render some service you immediately demand some money. But here in this temple, so many young boys, they are giving service free. Not only that: whatever they are earning they are also paying Kṛṣṇa. So do you think unless they get some enjoyment they are doing it foolishly? Sense enjoyment must be there, but that is spiritual sense enjoyment, purified sense enjoyment. We are training people in that way, that we don't stop your sense enjoyment. But enjoy it in its purified stage. Because sense enjoyment cannot be stopped. You are living entity, living being, the senses are there. But we do not know the way of sense enjoyment. That is to be learned by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śāradīyā: Swamijī? When we go to Kṛṣṇaloka to be with Kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda: Just see this girl, little girl, is aiming for going back to Kṛṣṇaloka. Just see. (laughter) I am giving an example. They don't care for this material senses. They are always thinking "When I shall go there, home, back to home, back to Godhead?" This is the psychology. Yes?



Śāradīyā: When we serve Kṛṣṇa, even though we don't have a material body...?



Prabhupāda: No. Material body you have to finish here. You are finishing your material body so many times even during this bodily existence. So material body cannot go into spiritual world. You have your material body here. Similarly, as soon as you enter in the spiritual world you have spiritual body.



Śāradīyā: We have a spiritual body to serve Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: As good as Kṛṣṇa's body. Kṛṣṇa has got spiritual body, similarly you will have spiritual body. Is that clear?



Śāradīyā: I want to know, when we serve Kṛṣṇa, we have spiritual senses, then that satisfies our spiritual senses when we serve Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇaloka?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You dance with Kṛṣṇa, you eat with Kṛṣṇa, talk with Kṛṣṇa, you enjoy with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will kiss you also. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa is very kind to everyone, either you love Him as a lover, either you love Him as your son, either you love Him as your friend, or you love Him as your master. In whichever way you like you can love, and Kṛṣṇa will respond. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you will see Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who loves Me in different ways or different type," so Kṛṣṇa also loves reciprocating that way. If somebody Kṛṣṇa..., loves Kṛṣṇa as enemy, Kṛṣṇa also gives him salvation in that way also. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Yes.



Guest (2): Swamijī, I think this man's question needs a little bit more clarification. He was asking how do we know what Kṛṣṇa dictates, by what authority. How do we know how we can serve Kṛṣṇa? Is that your question? How do we know how we can serve Kṛṣṇa?



Guest (1): Yes. Well, I, one thing...



Prabhupāda: That I have answered, that you can serve Kṛṣṇa by following the dictation of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not clear? The next question may be how you receive dictation of Kṛṣṇa. Is that?



Guest (1): Right. Yes. That would be the next question. (laughter)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is answered in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Fourth Chapter: evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Just like you call this "table." How you understand this is table. You have taken the idea from your parents. And wherefrom your parents got this idea that this is a table? They also got from their parents. Therefore this idea of table, you do not say anything else, is received by succession. Similarly, you can receive succession order from Kṛṣṇa through spiritual master.



Guest (2): Swamijī, what... You said that sleep is complete waste of time.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you cannot work then.



Guest (2): What about dreaming?



Prabhupāda: Dreaming is still waste of time. (laughter)



Guest (2): Is it possible to have Kṛṣṇa consciousness when you are asleep?



Prabhupāda: Dreaming is practically interaction of the activities, mental interaction of the activities in which you are engaged. You dream in different way; I dream in different way. So when the body is tired, it cannot work. It stops functioning. The mind works. So dreaming is the function of the mind. That's all. So... Huh?



Guest (2): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: No. It is not from the spiritual platform. It is from the mental platform. In the spiritual platform, that is called suṣupti. There is no gross or material function of this contamination. So those who are advanced, they also dream Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, that requires time to make little advancement. But after all, dream is the activities of the mind. Just like we work, that is the activities of the gross senses. Similarly, we work also on mental platform. That is called dream.



Guest (2): Are we to take Kṛṣṇa conscious dreams seriously or some illusion?



Prabhupāda: Well, that depends on your particular position, you see. Sometimes a Kṛṣṇa conscious persons dreams very seriously. Sometimes communication is there by dreams. Yes?



Guest (2): Normal sleep for a man would be about eight hours. So is it possible to train the body through the use of yoga to decrease the sleep period down to about three hours or two hours?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Rūpa Gosvāmī, he used to sleep only for one and a half hours.



Guest (2): How long could the body hold up, how many years could the body...



*Prabhupāda: Well, there is no guarantee of holding up your body even if you have no sleep or have sleep. The material condition is so cruel that body can be finished at any moment. So that is no consideration. The consideration is how to advance in the spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you make, I mean to say, considerable advance, then the eating and sleeping and sex demand or defense, these things will be negligible. Negligible. These things are depending on our practice. Because actually, I don't depend on sleeping or eating or mating or defending. It is simply due to my bodily consciousness these things are required. But when one is actually spiritually advanced, he has no such appreciation. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified, but he never protested because he had no bodily consciousness at all. So when one is spiritually advanced, there is no bodily consciousness. But we should not imitate. That requires advancement, as we have mentioned. Nothing has to be done in hasty. But if you follow the rules and regulation, then someday it will be experienced that how we have spiritually advanced. Just like if you go on eating, not in the first morsel, second morsel, you become immediately satisfied. But when you are full in your satisfaction of hunger you feel happiness, you feel strength. Similarly, we have to follow the spiritual process, and gradually as we develop we become free from all these demands of the body. There was Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was eating only say a few grains of butter every alternate day. Only a few grains of futter only. Every alternate day he was eating. So eating is also nonessential to one who is spiritual advanced. And so*-called sex life, oh, that can be given up from the very beginning. And so far defense, nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. One who is fully spiritually conscious, he doesn't care for death. He does not know what is the meaning of death because he is living perpetually. So these things are to be experienced when you are advanced, but this is possible. This is possible from the examples of great saintly persons and from literature we can find that one can be completely free from the four demands of the body, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating. Yes?



Girl: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Guest (1): Did you say that having a family necessarily interferes with Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



*Prabhupāda: No. Nothing interferes if it is properly adjusted. Now here in our society we are actually living in family. We have got brother, sisters, mother, father, everything. But there is adjustment. It is on the basis platform of love. There is no self*-interest, therefore it is happy. So as soon as we turn everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the whole world becomes peaceful and happy. Of course, that is not possible, but as far as possible we can do it familywise, we can do it individually. As much as possible we can extend. But the platform is such nice that in that platform the family life or friendly life or social life-everything becomes nice, joyful, and peaceful. That is the test of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All right. Thank you. (end)





751204SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.3

-

Vṛndāvana, December 4, 1975



Harikeśa: Translation: "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued to speak: My dear friends born of demon families, the happiness which is perceived with reference to the senses can be obtained in any form of life according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained, as sometimes we obtain distresses without any endeavor."



Prabhupāda:



sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

*deha*-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ

[SB 7.6.3]



*Now Prahlāda Mahārāja in the previous verses explained that durlabhaṁ manuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is durlabham, very rarely gotten." It is not so easy. There are many rascals, they say that once you come to the human form of life there is no more degradation. That is rascaldom. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntaram*-prāptir [Bg. 2.13], He says that "As you have changed bodies, similarly, at the end also you'll have to change the body." He never says that "You'll get again human body." Never says. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir: "Another form of life." That another form may be... There are 8,400,000 forms. So "another form" means any one of them. There is no guarantee. You cannot say that "Now I have got human form of... Again, in the next life, I also get human..." No. You can be... The evidence is Bhārata Mahārāja. He was king, emperor, very exalted position in the human form of life, but next life he got the life of a deer. This is the evidence. So how you can say that next life will be human life? No. That's not possible. According to your karma, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], if you are acting like human being, then there is chance of getting human life. And if you are acting like a dog, then you must get the body of a dog. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa. It depends on your karma. If you simply dress like a human being and act like a dog, then you'll get a dog's body. Kṛṣṇa will give you the facility. Māyayā, (sic) yantrā-rūḍhena māyayā. Māyā.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that this body is just like a machine, motorcar. Suppose you have got now a very nice motorcar, Rolls Royce car. So somehow or other, your car is lost. The next car, is it any guarantee that you will get Rolls Royce car? No. You'll get a car as you pay for. That's all. If you can pay for a Rolls Royce car, then you can get. Or any dress. Suppose you have got now very costly dress. Now your dress is torn, you have to change the dress, but is there any guarantee that you'll get the same type of dress? No. You'll get a dress as you pay for it. It's a common sense. Similarly, if you act like a demigod, you will get the body of a demigod. If we act like ordinary human being, then you get the body of a human being. If you act like a dog, then you get the body of a dog. And if you act like a devotee, you go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process.

*Why we are instructing everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? The result will be, if you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then next life you get a body in which you can live with Kṛṣṇa face to face, talk with Him, play with Him. That is the benefit. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Kṛṣṇa gives assurance that if you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, and if you really understand Kṛṣṇa... Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, not vague... "Yes, I understand Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa has no form"*-this is not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. This is rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa says such persons, such rascals who says that "Kṛṣṇa has no body. He has no form. It is māyā..." They are called Māyāvādī. "Everything māyā. Kṛṣṇa is also māyā." That is Māyāvāda. So these Māyāvādīs are condemned by Kṛṣṇa: na mām... What is that? Mānuṣīṁ tanum... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. These rascals, Māyāvādīs, avajānanti, he thinks Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, or even if He is God, He has taken a body made by māyā. This is Māyāvādī philosophy. "The spirit soul cannot appear without being dressed by māyā." But that is not the fact, that... A man is diseased, suffering from fever. It does not mean that without fever nobody can exist. That is nonsense. Fever is a symptom for the time being, and feverlessness is the real life. Similarly, somehow or other, iccha-dveṣa-samutthena [Bg. 7.27], by some desire, we have got this material body, but it does not mean that without this material body I cannot live. That is nonsense. Actual life is spiritual life. Actual life is spiritual life.

*So therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma [SB 7.6.1]. This is human life. You have got the human life only for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you are doing anything else except Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you are risking your life to become a cat and dog or anything else. This is the fact. So Kṛṣṇa is still prepared to give you facilities. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yānti devā vratā-devān [Bg. 9.25]. If you are acting like a devatā... Devatā means devotee. Not pure devotee. With some material desires. They are called devatās. Not... Everyone is not pure devotee. Mostly, artho arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha [Bg. 7.16]. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Sukṛti... Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is to be understood that he's a pious. But piety, to become a pious man, does not mean that he's a devotee. By piety, by acting piously, you can get good birth. Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. You can get good birth in a very aristocratic family or a brāhmaṇa family. Generally aristocratic, rich family, by piety. Janma-aiśvarya. Nowadays they want money, and nobody wants any spiritual advancement. So they get money by pious activities. They get good birth. To born, to take birth in very rich family... Janmaiśvarya-śruta. He can become very learned man, B.A., M.A. Ph.D., Dh.C, so many things, title, learned man. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī, and beautiful, beautiful body. These are the results of pious activities. But that does not mean you are a devotee. Devotee is different thing. Devotee means who does not aspire of anything like this, that "Let me take birth in rich family. Let me possess very good amount of wealth. Let me become beautiful. Let me become very learned." These are material aspirations, but a devotee has no material aspiration. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]-zero, nothing of the sort.

And what is his aspiration? That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitaṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. This is pure devotion. "I don't want money." Na dhanam. "I don't want any number of men at my order acting." Just like big big factory owner. They are employing four thousand, five thousand men, as master of so many servants... A devotee doesn't want this. He doesn't want any amount of money or any amount of followers. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitam. Very beautiful, attractive wife, sundarīm. This is material aspiration: "Let me have immense amount of money, a very good woman, wife or friend." This is the whole material activities. You'll see. Everyone is after money and women. This is material aspiration. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is rejecting. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitaṁ vā jagad-īśa. Then what You want? Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. "I don't mind where I get my birth. I am not aspiring to get my birth in a very aristocratic way, no." Anywhere. Mama janmani. "I may become a demigod in the heavenly planet or I may a cat, dog, or any insignificant. But I want this, that My devotion to Your lotus feet may not be forgotten." This is desirelessness. Anything beyond the..., we desire, that is material.

*So bhakti begins when you are desireless Gato... The Yamunacārya's śloka. Niśeṣa*-mano-rathāntaram. Kadāham aikantika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi sanātha jivitaṁ bhavantam eva caran nirantaram. This is devotee, devotion. He's praying, Yamunacārya's praying to the Lord, bhavantam: "You only..." Caran nirantaram. "Simply thinking of You, acting for You," caran, ācāran, "practicing such activities which will give me the opportunity of thinking Kṛṣṇa..." That is wanted. Because Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65], Kṛṣṇa says, "This is the process," so we have to mold our life in such a way that we get the opportunity of thinking of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even we are eating, we can remember Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa baḍa dayā-maya, karibāre jihvā jaya, svaprasāda-anna dilā bhāi. So we want. While sleeping, if we think of Kṛṣṇa, it may be that we may dream of Kṛṣṇa also. That is possible. Eating, sleeping, mating... Even in sex if we can remember Kṛṣṇa... How? That is... Kṛṣṇa says, dharmāviruddha-kāmo 'smi. Sex life which is given permission in the śāstra, that is Kṛṣṇa. The śāstra gives you permission for sex life only for begetting nice children. Not for enjoyment. That is illicit sex. If you make love, "Phish, phish, phish," and have sex life, that is illicit sex. So that dharmāviruddha. So we can adjust our material activities: eating, sleeping, mating, and fearing. It can be adjusted in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, provided we take direction from Kṛṣṇa. Even eating, sleeping, mating can be utilized as Kṛṣṇa consciousness if you follow the rules and regulations. There is facility. And as soon as you deviate, then you become subject to the control of māyā. Yajñārthe karmao 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhana. If you simply act for satisfying Kṛṣṇa, then you are all right. And as soon as you do it for your own sense gratification, karma-bandhana, you become bound up by the laws of karma. We should be very careful therefore.

*Therefore here it is said sukham aindriyakam: "Happiness derived from the sources which is not related with Kṛṣṇa..." That is sukham aindriyakam. Actually you do that. When we enjoy sense pleasure, that is not for Kṛṣṇa. That is material sense perception. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this kind of pleasure, happiness... Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā. He is particularly addressing his friend, daityā, because they are sons of daityā, demons. Just like at the present moment ninety*-nine per cent of the population, they are daityās, demons. What is the difference between a demon and a demigod? Daityā means the sons of the Diti. So daitya. And deva. Deva means devotees or those who accept the supremacy of the Lord. They are called deva. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Anyone who is viṣṇu-bhakta, accepting God as the supreme controller, they are called demigods. And āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ, and just the opposite number... What is that opposite number? "What is God? Why shall I accept God? God is dead. There is no God. God is impersonal." They are daityās or demons.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja was also born in a demon family, but he was not daitya. He was a devotee, although he is born... So it is, not that a devotee has to take his birth in the devotee's family. That is not necessary. Ahaituky apratihatā. One man can become a devotee without any cause and without being checked. There is no such thing which will check to become a devotee. Anyone can become devotee in any condition, provided he is fortunate enough to associate with another devotee. That is the way. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My dear friends, because you have been taught for sense gratification*-eating, sleeping, mating and defending-so this is, this kind of happiness, is material happiness, sense enjoyment." So deha-yogena dehinām, two bodies combined or in connection with this body... Deha-yogena dehinām. Just like sex life. Sex life, it requires two bodies, one male or female. Deha-yogena. As soon as we say, yogena, that means extra something. Yogena. Yoga and viyoga. Viyoga means minus, and yoga means addition. So deha-yogena dehinām. The living entities who have accepted this material body, such kind of happiness, sarvatra labhyate. You can have anywhere, any life. Just like two bodies, male and female. It is not that in the human society two bodies, male and female, join and enjoy the pleasure. The dog also do that. The quality of happiness between a beautiful man and beautiful woman does not increase or decrease by other body. The hog also, they enjoy. It is not because they have got a nasty body therefore the enjoyment is less than human being, no. The feelings of enjoyment is the same, either of the dog or of the hog or of the human being, everyone. It is not... The quality does not change.

*There is a story of a prostitute, Lakṣahīra. (aside:) You can sleep this way. I am asking you. Yes, you're sleeping. You can go and sleep. Don't make here. So there is a story of the prostitute, Lakṣahīra. There was a prostitute whose charges was one lakh of pieces of diamond. It doesn't matter, a big diamond or small diamond. That was her charges. So one man was suffering from leprosy and he was being assisted, he was being assisted by his wife, very faithful wife. So still, he was morose. The wife asked the husband, "Why you are morose? I am giving you so much service. You are leper, you cannot move. I can take you... I take you on a basket and carry you. Still, you feel unhappy?" So he admitted, "Yes." "Oh, what is the cause?" "Now, I want to go to the prostitute, Lakṣahīra." Just see. He is leper, a poor man, and he is aspiring to go to a prostitute who charges 100,000 of pieces of diamond. So anyway, she was a faithful wife. She wanted to satisfy her husband. Some way or other, she arranged. Then, when the leper was at the house of the prostitute, the prostitute gave him very nice dishes of food but everything in two dishes, everything, one in the golden pot, another in iron pot. So while he was eating, so he inquired the prostitute, "Why you have given me in two pots?" "Now, because I wanted to know whether you will feel different taste in different pots." So he said, "No, I don't find any difference of taste. The soup in the golden pot and the soup in the iron pot, the taste is the same." "Then why you have come here?" This is foolishness. The whole world is going on like that. They are simply trying to taste the same thing in different pot. That's all. They are not detestful that "No more, sir. I have tasted enough." That is not fact. That is called vairāgya*-vidyā, no more tasting: "It is all the same, either I take in this pot or that pot."

Therefore it is said that sukham aindriyakam, the sense pleasure, it doesn't matter whether you enjoy as a dog or as a human being or a demigod or as European or American or Indian. The taste is the same. This is very important. You cannot have a better taste. Better taste is only Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. So if you do not increase your taste for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will try to taste in this pot and that pot. That is the law. That will be, continue business and continue disease, to taste in this pot and that pot: "It may be very tasteful in this pot, may be tasteful..." The whole world is going on. All these rascals, they go to different countries for tasting sex life. They go to Paris... [break] ...kaṁ daityā, sarvatra labhyate daivād yathā duḥkham. Just like duḥkham. Duḥkha means unhappiness. So suppose a millionaire is suffering from typhoid and a poor man is suffering from typhoid. Does mean that the millionaire will have less distress than the poor man? When you have got typhoid fever, either you are rich man or poor man, the sufferings of typhoid fever is the same. It does not mean that "This man is very rich man, he is not suffering from typhoid," No. As unhappiness is the same in different pot, similarly, the happiness also is the same in different pot. This is knowledge. So why should I waste my time to taste happiness and distress in different pots? The different pots means these different body.

*So this is not our business. Our business is to revive our original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It doesn't matter in which pot I am at the present moment. Ahaituky apratihatā. You can taste Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any hesitation, without any check, without any hindrance. You can have. Simply you have to see inside to our consciousness and rectify the consciousness. That is required in this human form of life. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja in the beginning said, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. This understanding, this knowledge can be attained only in human form of life. This analysis of unhappiness and distress can be explained before a human being. If I call three dozen dogs here and ask him, "Now hear Bhāgavata," it is not possible. The dog will not be able to understand Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, but a man, however low he may be, if he has got little intelligence, he will be able to understand. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. You have got the opportunity to understand what is bhāgavata-dharma. Don't lose it like cats and dogs.

Thank you very much. (end)



760619SB.TOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.3

-

Toronto, June 19, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: My dear friends born of demoniac families, the happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects by contact with the body can be obtained in any form of life, according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained without endeavor, just as we obtain distress."



Prabhupāda:



sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

*deha*-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ

[SB 7.6.3]



*We are, every one of us, we are fully under the control of material nature. We have put ourselves, in different bodies, we are fully under the control of material nature. There is no question of independence. In the śāstra it is described just like a horse or a bull is bound up in the nose and the driver, as he push, pull on the rope, it has to go according to that. There is no independence. So our so*-called declaration of independence, "There is no God. There is no control. Whatever we like we can do," this means ignorance. And in ignorance we commit so many mistakes, and that is sinful activity.



*Sinful activity means do irresponsibly anything we like, and we become entrapped in sinful activities. But as we have got experience in our ordinary life that ignorance is no excuse... Suppose a child touches fire. The fire will not excuse because it is a child. No. Either you are a child or grown*-up man, when you touch the fire it will act. There is no excuse. Similarly, knowingly or unknowingly, if we do something wrong, we have to be punished. This is the law of nature. There was an instance, one muni, he was brought to Yamarāja's court and he was..., judgment was given that this man should be punished by śūla. Śūla means one iron rod pushed through the rectum and it will pierce through the head. But the man was condemned to death, and this is the punishment. So the, he was a sage, muni. So he asked the Yamarāja that "Throughout my whole life, I never did any wrong. Why you are punishing me in this way?" So Yamarāja replied that "You have forgotten. In your childhood you pierced one ant with a needle. You have forgotten. Therefore you are being punished." So of course, he became..., Yamarāja became Vidura because the sage also punished him, that "For my childhood criminality you are punishing me in this way. So I also punish you, that you have no sense, you have to take birth in a śūdra family." Anyway, either in childhood, or knowingly or unknowingly, if we do something wrong... There are many other instances. Just like some contaminous disease: either a child or a grown-up man, if he infects himself with that contaminous disease, some way or other, the disease will manifest and he has to suffer.

*So the suffering also, and enjoyment, this is also due to the senses. Mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. So in the material world, so long we have got this material body, two things will be there: suffering or enjoyment. And what is the suffering and enjoyment? With reference to the senses. Or... Senses... Just like the skin is called touch sensation. We feel pleasure by touching the skin. So this pleasure, due to the touch sense, sometimes it is painful, sometimes it is pleasing, due to different circumstances. Just like water. Water is very pleasing to the skin if it is winter. So water is the same, my skin is the same, but due to seasonal changes, the same water is sometimes pleasing and sometimes displeasing. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. So, so long we have to remain in this material world or so long we have to continue this material body, two things will continue. You cannot stop it. It is not possible. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. And what are actually there? Agamāpāyino 'nityās: they come and go. They're all temporary. Winter season or the summer season, it does not stay. It comes and go away. So everything in this material world, so-called distress and happiness, they come and go. We should not be very mch disturbed by... Neither we shall waste our valuable time seeking after so-called... Nobody wants distress, but everyone wants happiness. So without knowledge, in ignorance, we are simply trying after happiness. This is material world.

*Last night we discussed about, that a dog is running from this side to that side. So he's feeling some pleasure. Similarly, we also, so-called civilized man, we are also running on a car, this side and this side. So the same thing*-the dog's race. But we are thinking, because we are running on a car, we are civilized. But the business is that dog's race. So Prahlāda Mahārāja's point is that we should try to understand the value of life. We should not waste our time by dog's race, either on four legs or on four wheels. That is the point. Therefore he says, sukham: the happiness is due to the senses. Sukham aindriyakam. Aindriyakam means, indriya, indriya means senses. Daityā. He's addressing his friends. They're all born of daitya family. Daitya family means they're simply after sense gratification. That is called daitya family. And human family, or devata family... There are two classes: daitya and devatā. Daitya means they do not know anything, just like animals, simply after sense gratification. They are called daityas. And devatā means they are fully aware of the existence of God, their relationship with God, duty with reference to God, they are called devatās. That is the difference between daityas... So Prahlāda Mahārāja, circumstantially, because he was to deliver the daityas, so he took his birth, by the will of the Supreme Lord, he took birth in a daitya family. Sometimes devotees come in a particular type of family to deliver the community or the society. So here the class friends were all daityas, born of daitya family. They are not born of very enlightened family. So therefore he's addressing, daityā. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha... (aside:) Sit properly.

*So this sukham, indriya*-jam (indistinct), sense gratification. Here it is said deha yogena dehinam. Dehī, this is not understood. The dehī and deha. Dehī yogena dehinām. Dehī means the person who possesses this deha. That is not understood. That is the beginning of spiritual education in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. You ask anybody, I think 99.9% will be unable to understand what is dehī and deha. This is our modern education. Dehina and deha. Dehī, the Sanskrit word, that is called inprotra (indistinct) a state in. (indistinct) When you possess something, then in Sanskrit, I means to say, prota. Just like gunī. Guṇa means gua, and you add in, then guṇin. Similarly, deha, and you add in, then dehin. The real meaning is, deha means this body and dehī means the possessor of the body. So actually in the modern age, the so-called civilization, they do not understand what is deha and dehī. They think this deha is everything, the body is everything. But that is not the fact. So dehī, the possessor of the body. So there are so many different types of body. But it is possessed, each and every deha, or body, is possessed by the dehī. So dehī, in a particular possession of deha. Dehī means the spirit soul. When he is within the encagement of a particular body, then his standard of happiness and distress is particular. Just like the hog, he's in a particular type of body, and a human being is in a particular type of body. Deha-yogena dehinām. This dehī, the spirit soul, he's encaged in a particular type of body. Therefore the happiness of the hog is different from the happiness of a man because he has got a particular type of body. A man, if you give him nice halavā, he'll be pleased. And the hog, if you give fresh stool, he'll be pleased. Why? The hog will not protest; *rather he will like: "Oh, it is very nice." And a man will hate to even stand there. So why this difference? Deha*-yogena dehina. The dehī, the spirit soul has a particular type of body and he's taking pleasure in particular type of food.

*So we have to understand this, that the sense gratification... In English it is called "One man's poison is another man's food." Why this difference? A particular type of body. Although we are all human being, but every one of us is under the control of the laws of nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad*-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg. 13.22]. Sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. We are born in a particular family, particular circumstances, particular taste. Everything. That is kāraṇam. What is the..., why there are differences? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya. The kāraṇa, the reason is because we are associated with a particular type of modes of nature. Just like a person, at this time he'll be pleased to come here to understand this Bhāgavata-dharma. At the same time, another person will be pleased to go to a brothel or to a liquor shop. Why? The kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. The reason is that he's interested with the particular modes of nature. So Bhāgavata-dharma means, even one is in the most lower stage of association, he can be raised to the highest stage. That is called bhāgavata-dharma. The beginning of this chapter was:

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*Arthadam means the purpose of life. So those who are not taking part of bhāgavata*-dharma from the beginning of life, their artham is different, and whereas a person taking to bhāgavata-dharma, artham is different. The bhāgavata-dharma artham, bhāgavata-dharma artham is to go back to home, back to Godhead. And the material life artham: sense gratification. This is the difference. They do not know that there is life after death and there is eternal life, there is eternal happiness. They do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya.



*So this type of happiness, different types of happiness, and distress also. Actually, in this material world there is no happiness. Everything is distress. But on account of our ignorance we accept distress as happiness. That is called māyā. Māyā, mā*-ya. "That is not." We are accepting something... The same example. Just like a hog is feeling happiness by eating stool. But it is not happiness actually. One who is not in māyā, one is not in the hog's body, he says, "Oh, what nasty food he's taking." That is also food. From food value, the stool is very valuable. It contains all hydrophosphates and so on, so on. The doctors, they have analyzed. But that does not mean because it has got very big food value the human being will agree to take stool. Sometimes it so happens that in the last war in the concentration camp, the human being was obliged to eat his own stool. So this is called karma. This is karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa, jantor deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1].

*So we must rectify our karma. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti*-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. If you cultivate bhāgavata-dharma, then your karma can be changed. Otherwise, it is not changed. Otherwise, it is not possible. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate [SB 1.5.18]. Everyone is born with the resultant action of some past karma. That also, people in the modern days, they do not understand, what is past, what is future, what is present. Simply animals. The animals, cats and dogs, they cannot understand. Therefore human form of life should not be wasted like the animals. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kasṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This should be, there should be responsibility, and the state, the father, the elderly persons, the guru, they must be very responsible. And what is that responsibility? Every person under one's control should be trained up in such a way, because he has got this human life, he can be elevated to the highest position. That, how it can be done? By bhāgavata dharma. Not otherwise. Not by karma or jñāna or yoga. No. You cannot change. Simply by acting in devotional service, bhāgavata dharma, anyone can be raised to the highest position. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā [SB 2.4.18]. Pāpā, these are pāpā. Pāpā means very abominable life. Even they can be raised to the highest perfection. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. The pāpa-yoni. Pāpā-yoni, there are different types of pāpa-yoni. Except civilized human being, advanced human being, those who are called āryan. Āryan means those who are advanced. Below that position they are all pāpa-yoni. In the Aryan civilization there is a system of four divisions of social order and four division of spiritual order. Social order is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra. And spiritual order: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Therefore what is going on at the present moment as Hindu... This word you won't find in the Vedic literature. Varnāśrama. This is real Vedic system, varṇāśrama. And human life begins when one observes the varṇāśrama regulations. Varnāśrama. Human life means to elevate oneself to spiritual consciousness or God consciousness. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim... [break]

*...is the life. Because there is no education, there is no Bhāgavata*-dharma preaching, people are kept completely in darkness. This is modern civilization. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. Prāyeṇa alpāyuṣaḥ kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ. In this age, first of all, the duration of life is very small. Although in Kali-yuga one is destined to live up to hundred years, but they, with the progress of Kali-yuga, the duration of age will be decreased. Nowadays, nobody lives for hundred years. If one is eighty years old he is supposed to be very old man. But time will come when one is twenty years old he will be considered a very old man. That time is coming gradually. If one lives from twenty to thirty years, he'll be considered a very old man. So alpa-āyuṣaḥ. This is the effect of Kali-yuga. Duration of life, mercifulness, bodily strength, memory, these things will be reduced gradually. You won't find nowadays very fertile brain. It will reduce. Not very strong man, bodily very strong, and mercy, there is no question. On the street, in your front, if somebody's being killed, nobody will take care; *he'll go on. There is no mercifulness. Even the mother has no mercifulness, killing the child. This is Kali*-yuga. So just imagine what is the duration of this Kali-yuga. That is all described. Mandāḥ. Everyone is bad. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. And if one poses himself that he is intelligent, then that is a, also a bad way of life. Sumanda-matayo. Manda-bhāgyā. Everyone is unfortunate.

*So there is a great necessity to preach this bhāgavata*-dharma. What Prahlāda Mahārāja is preaching about the daityas? Daityas, they cannot understand. This life is meant for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to understand the value of life. Therefore he is... This kind of happiness, dehi yogena-dehinam, the particular body and the happiness with reference to the body... And another meaning, dehi yogena-dehinām means sex. One, dehī, another dehī, they're embracing, they're kissing, they have, that is also. That is the ultimate happiness in the material world. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this kind of happiness, deha yogena-dehinām, sarvatra labhyate. You'll get everywhere. Everywhere means either you are in human form of life or in a dog's form of life or hog's form of life. Everywhere you'll get. Don't think that the sex happiness is less in dog's life than the sex happiness in the life of human being. No. The pleasure of sex life, either in the hog's body or in the dog's body or in the man's body, it is the same. We have several times informed that if you put something eatable in a golden pot or in an iron pot, the taste will not change. The taste is the same. But it is our concoction only that if I put into the golden pot the taste will change. That is misconception. That's not the fact. So we are trying to be advanced civilized for changing the pot. That's all. But that will not change the quality. The quality will go on.

*So we have to go beyond the quality of this āhāra*-nidra-bhaya-maithunam, eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. That is necessary so far the body is concerned. But that is being done by the dogs and cats and dogs and hogs. We have to go further. That is bhāgavata-dharma. Deha-dharma is the same, either in the cats, dog or human beings. But the bhāgavata dharma is for the human being. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruva, kaumāra. When you have got this human form of body, from the very beginning of life. Just (like) these children, they are coming. It is very good. They are associating, they are offering respect to the Deity, to the guru. This will not go in vain. It is all recorded. So one day he'll become a devotee. That is bhāgavata-dharma. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving stress that don't be very busy for sense enjoyment. That is available in any condition of life, without any effort. And he's giving a very good example. Daivāt: by the superior arrangement. Superior arrangement means that the hog, because he has been given, daiva-netreṇa, the body of a hog, he must eat stool. That is daiva. He must eat stool. So daivāt. Daivāt means all arrangement is there. You'll find amongst the animals, they have got a particular type of food. Just like cows, goats, these four-legged animals, they eat grass. They'll never eat meat. And then the tigers, dogs, cats, they'll not touch even grass. They'll want meat. Deha yogena-dehinām. The standard of eating, standard of happiness, is already fixed up. They cannot be changed. But in the human form of life they can be changed if they take to bhāgavata-dharma. Just like, practical example, these European, American boys. They have changed their habits. How it is possible? Because they have taken to bhāgavata-dharma. That is the only way. Otherwise it is not possible. In America, the authorities accepted that "We are spending so many millions of dollars, we could not stop the intoxication habit, LSD habit. And how is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is stopping?" That's a fact. As soon as one joins our movement sincerely, he can very easily give up the four abominable things: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication. How it is possible? Because human being and he's taking bhāgavata dharma. That is...

*So if you want to change the mentality of the human being as it is going on, the dog's mentality, if you want to change it, you cannot do it by assembly in the United Nations and passing resolution. That is not possible. You must take to bhāgavata*-dharma. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise, it is not possible.

Thank you very much. (end)



670308SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.3-4

-

San Francisco, March 8, 1967



(incomplete lecture)

*Prabhupāda: ...a little endeavor, and it will come. So you haven't got to engage your major portion of time for this purpose. Because according to your body, the necessities are already there. How there are...? How can I believe that there is already the necessities of my life? He is giving a very nice example, that sarvatra labhyate daivāt. Sarvatra means everywhere. If you become a forest animal, your sense gratification paraphernalia is there. If you become an aquatic animal, your sense gratificatory paraphernalia is there. If you are a man, that is also there. If you are American, it is there. If you are Indian, you are there. If you are aborigine, it is there. Sarvatra. If you are ant, if you are an animal or a worm within the earth, oh, the food is there. The rat, the cockroaches, they live within the drain. Still, the food is there. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, sarvatra labhyate. In any form of life, either you become man, god, or dog or cat or anything, your sense gratificatory... What are those sense gratificatory things? Now, you require to eat something. Either you are man or animal or whatever you may be, you require to eat something. So eatables are there. Then you require a place to sleep. Oh, the that place is also there. Just like we have got so many friends-some of them present here*-they have practically no apartment. But still, they have got place to sleep. They have got place to sleep. Nobody is without sleeping. There must be some place for sleep. And there must be something, somewhere for eatables.



*So the arrangement for your eating, arrangement for your sleeping, and arrangement for your mating, all these arrangements are there by nature. So deha*-yogena, the sense gratification which you want for the particular type of body as you have got, that is already arranged as much as... The example is duḥkham ayatnataḥ. As much as the distress from which you are destined to suffer are also there. The distress also... According to law of karma, we create our own distress and happiness. So as much as the happiness is there, similarly, the distress is also there. Nobody tries for distress. Duḥkham ayatnataḥ. Duḥkham means distress. Nobody tries to invite distress in his life. But distress overcomes him. Similarly, the quantity of happiness or the measurement of happiness, that is already predestined by nature, is already there. So "You should not bother..." Because they are all atheistic boys. They are after material improvement, economic development. The atheist class of men, they are always busy for economic development. They have no idea of spiritual existence or spiritual advancement of life. That is the distinction between atheistic life and theistic life. Atheistic people are not concerned, not a drop they are concerned for advancing in spiritual life. So because he was speaking amongst the boys who came from atheistic family, he said, "My dear friends, don't bother yourself for developing your economic condition, because that is already arranged there. You better utilize your short time, short span of life, for understanding Kṛṣṇa or be Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is his version. Tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. "Because you have got limited span of life."

*The other day I explained that suppose you are destined to live for fifty years. Now, you cannot make it fifty*-one years or fifty years, one month, by spending any amount of money. Just like a man is dying. He's very rich man. The doctor says that "He will die at such and such time." And if somebody says, "My dear doctor, kindly increase the time little more. You say that 'He will die at 10 o'clock at night.' Now make it next day 10 o'clock. We have got some business," that is not possible. That is not possible. If you spend millions of dollars and bribe the doctor, "Please extend the life. We have to get him sign some document before he dies," oh, that is not possible. Therefore just try to understand, the duration of life, how much it is valuable. It is not in your power to increase even by moment. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "Don't spoil your life for so-called sense gratification. That is already arranged there. Don't spoil your valuable life simply for sense gratification." Just see. These instructions are to be noted by human being, that we should not spoil even a second of our life uselessly. Uselessly. How? The... How we spend our life? Na cen nirarthakaṁ nītiḥ, ka ca hānis tato 'dhikā.

*Just the other day I told you about the version of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita: āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa vidhvāṁsi kalpānta*-sthāyino guṇaḥ. The Paṇḍita, the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that this āyuḥ, the duration of life, we do not know when we shall end. It is assure it will end. But kalpānta-sthāyino guṇaḥ, but if you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your that spiritual qualification will continue to eternity. There are many instructions in Vedic literature. So here also the same thing is repeated. Tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param: you should not try to spoil your life, spoil your valuable life for something which is not very much beneficial for you. And what is that thing beneficial? Self-realization. Self-realization, "What I am." This is the product of meditation. If you want to meditate, meditation means to attempt to understand oneself, "What I am." That is real meditation. Meditation does not mean that... Of course, this voidness, meditation in voidness, is another negative attempt that "This body is nothing." But actually, I am not void. I am spirit soul. And because I have no information of the spirit soul, therefore I simply try to think of the negative side of this bodily existence. That is called voidness. Simply negative... Now, "I am not this body. I am not this body." "I am not this body," that's all right.

*But that is not perfect self*-realization. When I understand that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul," that is partial self*-realization. And when I understand that "I am not only spirit soul, but I have got spiritual activities," that is still more advancement. And when you are actually situated in spiritual activities, that is the perfection of life. Just try to understand. First thing is, "I am not this body." That's all right. Then what you are, or what I am? The next stage is to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. The exact Sanskrit language is that, to understand that "I am spirit soul." All right, then is that finished? No. Still you have to go farther. Then "I am a spirit soul." So the spirit soul in this material body has so much activities. Now, regarding this body, I have got so many activities. And when the body is finished, is it correct that the spirit soul stops to act? No. It does not stop to act. Because that is the active principle. Because the spirit is there within this body, therefore the body's acting. Now, suppose I am not this body. Then does it mean that the spirit has no activity? So this is now wrong theory. Spirit has various activities, but you do not know. That is illusion. So meditation means to understand oneself, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," and farther advancement of that meditation is to know that what are the activities of the spirit soul, and when one is actually engaged in those spiritual activities, that is the perfection of meditation.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is direct engagement of spiritual activities. This is the concession, this is the concession of this age. We have got very little opportunity in the present age to meditate. It is very difficult. The so*-called meditation for fifteen minutes and twenty-three hours all kinds of nonsense activities will never help you. Therefore meditation is out of question at the present age. I am not speaking from my own whims. It is stated in the śāstra. In the śāstra it is said that kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. Meditation on Viṣṇu was possible in the golden age, or in the Satya-yuga. Satya-yuga means at that time the people used to live for one hundred thousands of years. And they were all perfect in religious life. There was no flaw. Then came the Tretā-yuga, when they were perfect three-fourths and the duration of life reduced to ten thousand years. The next yuga, next millennium, is called Dvāpara-yuga, when the life of people, half religious, half pious, half vicious, and the duration of life reduced to one thousand years. And this age is called Kali-yuga, the age of quarrel and misunderstanding. The duration of life has reduced to one hundred years. Not even one hundred years. Fifty years, sixty years, seventy years at most, but within. And so far life is concerned, three-fourths of the life irreligious, one-fourth only religious. That is also doubtful. So therefore in this age, the sastric injunction... Therefore the injunction of the authorized scripture is that kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. In the golden age when people used to live for one hundred thousands of years, meditation was possible. Because we understand Valmiki Muni, he got perfection by meditation after meditating sixty thousands of years. And similarly, Kardama Muni, he got perfection by meditation after ten thousands of years meditation. So meditation process is difficult process, and it is not possible in this age. This is the injunction of the śāstra. Simply we can waste our time by so-called meditation, but real meditation is not achievable at the present age. Therefore the prescription is kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. In the first millennium, meditation was possible. In the second millennium, sacrifice. Big, big yajña or sacrifice was performed by people. And the third millennium, temple worship. And in the fourth millennium, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. In this age of Kali, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa you can attain the perfection. So these are the prescriptions. We have to follow that.

*So our policy, those who are serious about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should not waste their time for sense gratification. And because the body is there, we are not free from the body, there are demands of the senses. So that should be controlled. That is the process in every line of action, either you meditate or you perform sacrifices, do anything. The real process is to control the senses. So try to control the senses as far as possible and utilize your time for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the process is very simple*-simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So make your life regulated. There is no denial. It is not that you cannot eat or you cannot sleep or you cannot have sex life or you cannot defend yourself. Do all these things according to the rules and regulations. But don't waste your time for artificial increment of sense gratification. Don't do that. You require to eat to maintain your body and soul together. You eat. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ (?). You don't require to eat less. Suppose you can eat one pound. The Kṛṣṇa conscious prescription does not say, "You simply eat one ounce." No. You eat one pound. But don't eat more. Similarly, you have to sleep. All right, make your shelter, apartment, nicely so that you can comfortably sleep. Defense, yes, you defend your country, you defend your home nicely. Sex life, yes, you have sex life, but not in the unrestricted way. Limited with married wife or married husband and comfortably and very gentlemanly. So these are prescriptions are there. There is no denial. But make it systematic. But the balance of your life Don't spoil your life simply for sense gratification or so-called advancement of material civilization. You should utilize your time how to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the sum and substance of Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction to his class fellows who were born of atheistic family, and we shall gradually discuss.

Now if you have got any questions, you can ask. (pause) [break]

Viṣṇujana: ...if you chant from the lips or if you chant just in your mind as you walk?



Prabhupāda: Begin from the lips. Then you go to the mind.



Śyāmasundara: Do different spirit souls have different activities, spiritual activities?



Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is one; *therefore, only one activity, to serve the Lord. That's all. The Lord is one, and the spirit soul, qualitatively one, and the activities also one. That is our mission: one God, one mantra, one scripture, one activity. One God: Kṛṣṇa. One mantra: Hare Kṛṣṇa. One scripture: Bhagavad*-gītā. And one activity: to serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all. There is no two. One. Yes?



Gargamuni: Swamijī, as the ages progress, the population in the ages, are they more conditioned?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Gargamuni: Are we more conditioned than the people in the Satya*-yuga?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Just like a particular type of body... Just like a dog and man, there is difference of condition. A dog's living is more conditional than a man's living. Animal and human being, there is difference of condition. Similarly, there is difference of condition between human being and demigods. There are different other living entities in the higher planets, their condition of life, or standard of life, is different. Just like your American, your standard of life, in other poor countries, their standard of life is different. So the same principle: according to the body you have got, the standard of so*-called happiness and distress and everything is different. So this age, Kali-yuga, as it will increase, the distress of the people will increase. I shall, next day, I shall describe how the distress of the Kali-yuga will increase. You just remind me next meeting. Yes?



Devotee: Swamijī, seeing as how sorrow and happiness are there by nature's law, wouldn't these be an impediment to our devotional service?



Prabhupāda: No, for a devotee that is not impediment, because he's transcendental to distress and happiness. Spiritual activities are transcendental, ahaituky apratihatā. Ahaitukī: spiritual activities is not done under any cause. We love Kṛṣṇa not with a cause. Just like here in the material world, I love a girl for sense gratification, or I love a boy for sense gratification. There is a cause. And as soon as the cause is disturbed, oh, the love is disturbed, there is impediment. But love of Kṛṣṇa is without cause. It is spontaneous. Therefore there is no impediment. Because the word "love" can be engaged only in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, there is no question of love. So when the love, love of Kṛṣṇa is transcendental, there is no material impediment. Is it clear?



Devotee: If meditation without chanting was at one time successful, why is it now deficient?



Prabhupāda: Because the time has changed. You have to take, consider according to the time, circumstances, atmosphere. Here, at the present moment, our mind is so disturbed that concentration of meditation is not possible. But this chanting, as soon as we chant, by force our mind is engaged in chanting and hearing, by force: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." So even my mind is disturbed, by the vibration I am attracted. So that is, this meditation is recommended. Other meditation, if I sit down and think, I am thinking of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, which is red. At once a red bird comes in my vision and the bird begins to fly and it goes away. You see? So that kind of artificial meditation will not succeed. Meditation is not actually possible in this age. Yes?



Guest (1): Apparently, I have trouble with the definition of meditation. You say that chanting is the way to attain...



Prabhupāda: Yes. I don't say, it is there...



Guest (1): Yeah, okay, right. Transcendental meditation by the Maharishi is not a form of meditation under concentrating powers. I was wondering...



Prabhupāda: What is that transcendental meditation? Can you explain?



Guest (1): If I could I would do.



Prabhupāda: You cannot. You cannot explain?



Guest (2): I think he had an explanation.



Guest (3): We're talking of the teaching of the Maharishi.



Prabhupāda: So what is that teaching? You don't know. Then don't talk. (everyone laughs)



Guest (1): Okay, well, I'll try. May I try for a minute...?



Prabhupāda: Don't try artificially. If you don't know, why should you artificially try?



Guest (1): Well, that's why I'm here, because I don't know everything.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, don't talk back. Which is the subject matters which you do not know, don't talk.



Guest (1): Okay.



Prabhupāda: Now, so far I know, that Maharishi says that you meditate for fifteen minutes daily. Is it correct?



Guest (1): Twice a day.



Prabhupāda: Twice a day, for thirty minutes.



Guest (1): Anywhere from fifteen minutes to an hour.



Prabhupāda: All right, two hour. (laughter) That's all right?



Guest (1): Pardon me?



Prabhupāda: For two hours daily, one hour morning, one afternoon.



Guest (1): All right.



*Prabhupāda: So if one is engaged in meditation for two hours and if other is engaged for twenty*-four hours, whose meditation is perfect?



Guest (1): Uh, I don't know.



Prabhupāda: You don't know?



Guest (1): The Maharishi hasn't...



*Prabhupāda: No, don't take the Maharishi. I mean to say, if somebody is engaged in meditation for two hours and other is engaged for twenty*-four hours, then whose meditation value will be greater?



*Guest (1): Then there are two types of meditation, there's a two*-hour meditation...



Prabhupāda: First of all you answer this.



Guest (1): Pardon me? I missed it.



*Prabhupāda: I am just telling that a person is engaged in meditation for two hours, and another person is engaged in meditation for twenty*-four hours. Whose meditation is valuable?



*Guest (1): The twenty*-four hours.



Prabhupāda: Is it not?



Guest (1): Are you asking me to go out and chant all day long?



Prabhupāda: Huh?



*Guest (1): Are we supposed to chant twenty*-four hours?



Prabhupāda: Not only chanting. There are other engagements.



Guest (1): Right. That's what the Maharishi says also.



*Prabhupāda: So, twenty*-four hours... Now, that meditation, what is that, what Maharishi says you do not know you say just now, that you do not know.



Guest (1): I don't know as well as the Maharishi knows, but I'd like to. Perhaps you can explain.



Prabhupāda: But then explain. What is that?



Guest (1): He says that to meditate twice a day.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. What is that meditation process?



Guest (1): Okay, you're given your mantra, and when you sit there and meditate, you think...



Prabhupāda: Do you know that mantra?



Guest (1): Yes, but I can't speak it.



Prabhupāda: You cannot speak. It is secret?



Guest (1): It's not secret. If I speak it, I'll ruin the power. (laughter)



*Prabhupāda: Therefore, our mahā*-mantra is so nice that as we chant this loudly, the power becomes loud. (laughter continues)



Guest (1): Okay, this is where the problem lies then. Because I think that that's fine. And I agree. And yet, I don't think there's just one mantra.



Prabhupāda: And there is no secret; it is open. It is open.



Guest (1): I don't think there's just one mantra, sir. I feel that the entire mantra would be Om. And so Hare Kṛṣṇa Rāma would be just one part of Om. Now, isn't that true?



Prabhupāda: Is there any difference between Om and Hare Kṛṣṇa?



Guest (1): Yeah, Om is the total, isn't it?



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Guest (1): Well, okay. I'll reword that. Isn't Om the total expression sound of nature?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you know the definition of Om?



*Guest (1): The Bhagavad*-gītā defines it.



*Prabhupāda: It is in the Bhagavad*-gītā said, akṣarāṇām oṁkāro 'smi. Kṛṣṇa says that "Amongst the alphabets, I am oṁkāra." Therefore oṁkāra is not different from Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we say "Kṛṣṇa," the oṁkāra is there.



Guest (1): Right. And I imagine that as soon as I say my mantra, Om is also there, is it not?



*Prabhupāda: So oṁkāra... In every Vedic mantra the oṁkāra is there. But when Kṛṣṇa is there, oṁkāra is automatically there. Because it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, akṣarāṇām oṁkāro 'smi: "Amongst the alphabets, I am oṁkāra." So when you speak of Kṛṣṇa, the oṁkāra is automatically there. When there is fire, the heat is automatically there.



Guest (1): Okay, one more thing. Transcendental meditation by the Maharishi is not a concentrating process. It's a process of using the mantra to get into the meditation. And once reaching the point of deep meditation, thoughts will just occur. And there's no concentrating procedure at all. And this is why I had a question in the first place, in that you said meditation'w impossible because it's a concentrating process. Well, Maharishi's meditation is not the concentrating...



*Prabhupāda: Then he has manufactured something. It is not stated in the standard book. You see Bhagavad*-gītā and Patanjali system, yoga system, that is differently stated.



Guest (1): I see.



*Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad*-gītā, the meditation has to be concentrated upon the Viṣṇu. Mat-para. The word is mat-para. One has to concentrate his meditation upon the form of Viṣṇu. Nothing else. That is real meditation. But if Maharishi has manufactured his own way of meditation, I cannot comment upon it. Because we have to comment on the books of authority. Any other question? All right. (end)





751205SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.4

-

Vṛndāvana, December 5, 1975



*Harikeśa: Translation: "Therefore, only for the purpose of sense gratification, material activities like economic development are simply a waste of time and energy without any practical profit. If such energy and endeavor is utilized for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, surely one can attain to the spiritual platform of self*-realization. There is no benefit by engaging oneself in economic development."



Prabhupāda:



*tat*-prayāso na kartavyo

*yata āyur*-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ

*mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam

[SB 7.6.4]



So prayasa, activities... Rūpa Gosvāmī has forbidden,



atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca

prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ

*laulyaṁ jana*-saṅgaś ca

ṣaḍbhiḥ bhaktir pranaśyati

[No I 2]



*There are six kind of activities which will increase your transcendental importance of life, and there are six kinds of activities which will destroy your whatever little devotion you have got. These, in the Upadeśāmṛta you will find, how you can increase and how you can finish. So about finishing, if you are actually advancing in spiritual life, if that is your aim, then these six things should be avoided. As it is said, prayāsaḥ. The first thing is atyāhāra, eating too much than necessity, atyāhāra, or collecting more than you require. For maintenance of your body you have to secure some monetary benefit*-but not more than what you require. People are not satisfied. At the present moment everyone is trying to get more and more and more and more and more. There is no satiation. This kind of endeavor is forbidden. It will not help you. But people are mad after money. If he is getting, say, five hundred rupees, he says, "No, why five hundred? Five thousand." And if he gets five thousand, then he says, "Why five thousand? Five lakhs." And if he gets five lakhs, then he says, "Why five lakhs? Five crores." This is there. The whole world is going on. They are never satisfied. You go to any rich man: "Sir, you have now enough money. Please come to our meeting in the morning, seven-thirty." "No, I have no time." He's earning money.



*So everyone thinks, "To earn money is my first business. That is... And to work for it, that is my first business." But that is forbidden. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam this is forbidden. Becau... Why forbidden? Because you cannot get more than what you are destined to get. That is not possible. If by your karma, karma-phala, by result of your karma, if you are to get some happiness, you will get that much, not more than that. So what is the use of endeavoring? Therefore it is said, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Simply waste your time. Suppose you are doing some business and earning money. And if somebody says that "You cannot get more than five hundred rupees per month," then why you'll work so hard? But because they have no information*-they do not take consultation from the right person-therefore they are trying uselessly. The human life was meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. Instead of using the energy for understanding Kṛṣṇa, they are spoiling the energy unnecessarily to earn money. This is the modern civilization. The whole Western world, how they are spoiling their life unnecessarily. We should be satisfied in the economic position as we are put into.

So in another place Nārada Muni says,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatāṁ upary adaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

*kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasāḥ

[SB 1.5.18]



*Gabhīra-raṁhasāḥ, tal labhyate. Your material gain, happiness or distress, you are destined to get. You'll get it. Again the same, duḥkhavad anyataḥ. Anyat nataḥ. Nobody tries to get distress. If you ask anybody that "Why you are working so hard?" nobody says that "I am working so hard, I want distress." Nobody will say. Everyone will say, "I'll be happy. I'll get happiness. Therefore I am working hard." "No, this is distress." "Yes, this is distress, but I'll get happiness after this." This is called māyā. He is undergoing distress, but he is thinking, "I'll get happiness." This is called māyā. So there is no use. This is śāstric injunction. You have to see your future through the śāstra. So don't waste your time in that way. Āyur-vyayaḥ param. Ayur-vyayaḥ. This duration of life, human life-Prahlāda Mahārāja has begun with the words durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma*-this life is very, very important, and after many, many births you have got it. So you should always remember that every moment of this life is so important. How much it is important, that is explained by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Anyone can understand. He says... He is not a, I mean, Kṛṣṇa conscious person but moralist. He was prime minister. He says, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ. Your duration of life... You have got a certain years' duration of life. You cannot live more than that. If you have got your duration of life for fifty years, you can live up to fifty years, not hundred years. These are all destined. It is useless. So therefore it is very important. In the Bhāgavata in another place it is said, tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtya pateta yāvat nihśreyasāya. The same thing repeatedly. Here Prahlāda Mahārāja also says that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. First of all you have to consider that we have got this human form of life after many, many hundreds and thousands, millions, 8,400,000... [break] Durlabham. So therefore it is, although temporary... Everyone knows that "I'll not live forever." But even though it is temporary, adhruvam, not eternal, it is arthadam. It is said, arthadam. Whatever little life you have got, you can attain perfection. This is the advantage. You can attain perfection.



*How perfection? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



This is perfection. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up all these nonsense engagement. Simply surrender unto Me, and I shall give you relief." Our continuation of material life means full of sinful activities. We act some way, and we get a similar body. And again the life continues and again we get another body, another body, another body. But in the human form of body, you can get the highest perfection, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and that will stop your continuation of this material life. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi karṣati.



*mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ

*jīva*-loke sanātanaḥ

manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

*prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati

[Bg. 15.7]



By mental concoction and sense gratification he is continuing this material existence.



*So every man, the same instruction is there, that this human form of life is only meant for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the rascals, they will not hear. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My Lord Hari, I have simply wasted my time." Actually, if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is simply wasting his valuable time. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. How? Manuṣya-janama pāiyā rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. The same thing as Prahlāda Mahārāja says. This is called mahājana. The one mahājana is speaking something, another mahājana will say something else*-that is not mahājana. Mahājana means evaṁ paramparā prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. What Prahlāda Mahārāja said millions of years ago, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is saying the same thing. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam, and the same thing is being repeated by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura: hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. (aside:) Why they are going there with children? So this is called paramparā prāptam. (aside:) Nobody should go within with children. Eh? They...

Akśayānanda: She was standing at the doorway. She didn't go in.



Prabhupāda: No. So, why should we waste our time? Just see practically. We are asking people that "Don't waste your time. We are opening hundreds of centers. You come with us. Little prasādam you require. We shall supply. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." "No. No. I shall do the same thing, prayāsa, trying for this, trying for that, trying for something else, something else. No." Nobody is satisfied that "My life is meant for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Here is a chance to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let me live here peacefully and let me eat the prasādam and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." You'll will find no customer. This is māyā.



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*It is very, very difficult. But still, Vaiṣṇava, he will advise. A moralist who knows śāstra, he will also advise, just like Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. I was saying, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ. Formerly there was exchange for... Means of exchange was coins, gold mohan(?). Even in India, even in Muhammadan, there was gold. Not this paper, cheating: "I give you money, one thousand rupees, some paper. That's all." Where is money? But people are satisfied. "Yes, I have got one thousand rupees. It is written there. That's all." But actually money is the gold, gold exchange. So therefore Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said... This means at that time there was gold coin exchange. Even in our childhood we have seen in India there was coins, gold coins, silver coins, everywhere, all over the world. In England there was pound, gold coin. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ. Svarṇa means gold coins, and koṭi means ten millions. So suppose today is 6th December. Now seven o'clock, morning, seven o'clock, 6th December, passed. Can you bring it again by paying one crores of gold coins? Hm? That "Let me get back again seven o'clock, 6th December, 1975, again"? No. It is gone forever. So just see the value that you cannot get back even a moment of your life by paying millions and millions of dollars. How time is valuable, just calculate. Therefore Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, sa cet nirarthakaṁ nītaḥ ka no hānis tato 'dhika. If you waste your time, such valuable time, for nothing, just imagine how much loser you are. But we do not know. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ: [Cc. Ādi 17.31] "Your life is meant for chanting. Therefore you should simply chant sadā, always, consistently." This is the advice. This is properly using the moments of time. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that tat-prayāsa. If you foolishly endeavor for making some economic development, then what is the...? Āyur-vyayaḥ param. You have got this valuable life. Every moment is so valuable. That means you are wasting your valuable life by such endeavor to improve your economic condition. It is not possible. Tad ayatnataḥ. If you get distress without endeavoring for it, you will get happiness without endeavoring for it, because that is destined. You cannot get more or less. You have to... You'll get it.



Therefore, whatever little life we have got, instead of wasting for improving economic condition, let us use it for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is life. Who understands this philosophy, this rascal world? Nobody understands this philosophy, but this is real philosophy: not to waste your valuable time for improving your economic condition. That is not possible. You have to utilize every moment to see how we are improving Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So "How I am proving? Who will give me the certificate?" No. You don't require anyone's certificate. You'll know it. If you actually trying for advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the certificate will be understood by yourself automatically. What is that? Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. If you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you'll be detestful for material enjoyment, especially sex enjoyment. That is the last word of material enjoyment. So this is the test, that bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt.

*yad avadi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravinde

nava nava dhāman udyata rantum āsīt

*tad avadhi bata nārī*-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



Yamunacārya. This is the test. The more you advance in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll dislike this material happiness. This is the test.



*How it is? Now, just like if you are hungry and if you get food, then the more you eat, your appetite or hunger will be minimized, and at last you'll say, "No, no, I don't want any." Similarly, advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means, "No no, I don't want." Not only saying, "Don't want," but yad avadi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravinde nava nava dhāman udyata rantum āsīt tad avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame. Here our feelings of happiness is sex life. Sometimes we think, "Oh, how I was enjoying sex life with my wife, with my husband." That is also pleasure. They read so many novels because there is sex life. They feel very happy: "How this man is talking with this woman, woman is talking, this woman, and how they are enjoying." So that is subtle, subtle enjoyment. There are eight kinds of subtle sex life. If you see one beautiful woman and if you appreciate, "Oh, how nice the face is," that is subtle sex. If you read books, that is also subtle sex. If you endeavor how to approach that woman or man to find out the opportunity, that is subtle sex. There are eight kinds of subtle sex life. So it is forbidden for a brahmacārī even to think of woman. That is brahmacārī. Even thinking of woman is subtle sex life. It is very, very difficult. But mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. If you catch the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa very tightly, these things will not disturb. That is said by Yamunacārya. Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ. If you become pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then as soon as you think of sex, you'll spite. "Eh! Nonsense. What is this?" This is the result. That is the certificate, whether you have got that attitude-spite on it. Then you understand that you are increasing. Otherwise you are in the same hellish condition. You may show that you are becoming a devotee, very great devotee. So test yourself, how much you have advanced.

*So that is the sastric injunction everywhere. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇa bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ.

*yan*-maithunādi gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ

*kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha*-duḥkham

kaṇḍūtivan manasi yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ

*tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇa bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ

[SB 7.9.45]



*Everyone is practically aware that how sex life is followed by so many miserable condition of life. Everyone knows it. Either illicit or legal. The world is going on. Because there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, now they are creating so many sinful life, killing the child openly. The doctors, the medical men, the scientists, advise, "If you like, you can kill your child." And to kill a child means how much sinful activities, they do not know, but they are inducing. He has to become a child and he will be killed by somebody else. And again as many times he has killed children he will have to live within the womb and be killed. Bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. It will be followed by so many miserable condition of life. But now they are advertising, "One, two, three-no more children." But "one, two, three" means balance children, you kill. This is going on. Then why not stop sex life? Oh, that is not possible. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Not only in this life but in the next life, next life, because there is no... Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. These rascals... This rascal civilization is so dangerous, mūḍhā, full of rascals.



*So our little humble attempt is to give them relief from this rascaldom civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give little relief or little knowledge to the people in general, especially to the human being. Like Prahlāda Mahārāja is... Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. In the human life one can understand. We are speaking all these instruction from śāstra by Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's devotees. Why? Just to give a little relief. They may understand how to live. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. "Before the next death let me finish my Kṛṣṇa consciousness life." That is required. That is intelligence. Otherwise as soon as the life is finished, there is no guarantee that I am going to take again a human form of life. It is not possible. But there is little guarantee for the devotee. For the devotee, if he has rendered little service to Kṛṣṇa even for a moment, the life of human life next is guaranteed. Guaranteed in this way, that if he unknowingly commits some mistake, then it is guaranteed. And if he knowingly commits mistake, then he is going to be cats and dogs. This is the facility. Yoga*-bhraṣṭaḥ. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer patet tato yadi bhajann apakvaḥ [SB 1.5.17]. One has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but on account of immature Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if he falls down, falls down like that, then he gets... Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sanjāyate śucīnāṁ. But if one purposefully commits mistake and sinful life, "Now I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. I can do all sinful life. It will become counteracted," that rascal will be punished very, very much. Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. "I am living in Vṛndāvana. Oh, it is dhāma, so let me do all nonsense. It will be counteracted." They'll be these cats and dogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. Dhāmāparādha. Dhāmāparādha. Of course, Vṛndāvana's influence will be there, but at least one life he has to become the hog and dog in Vṛndāvana. Then next life he'll be... Because as soon as he becomes animal, there is no scope of unlimited committing sinful life. Animals are restricted. They can commit one kind of sinful life. That, the human being, because he is very intelligence, he commits unlimited duration of sinful life. That is another danger. So one who commits this sinful life in Vṛndāvana, remember, he has to become next life cats and dogs. There, as you see, there are many dogs, hogs. But still, Vṛndāvana-dhāma is so powerful that next life he will get salvation, even if he has become dogs and hogs. But that is not good. Why should we act in such a way that in Vṛndāvana-dhāma we shall commit sinful life and become a cats and dog? Jaya jaya vṛndāvanavāsī yata jana. We should be careful. We should be careful, especially in dhāma, dhāmāparādha.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "Don't waste your time for improving your bodily comforts. That is not good. It is simply waste of time." Tat prāyaso na kartavyo yata āyur vyayaḥ param. This life, human form of life, param, the supreme life... In the material existence the human form of life is supreme. Even the demigods, they desire that "If I can again go to Bhāratavarṣa and get a human life." This is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So you have come to Bhāratavarṣa or you are born in Bhāratavarṣa, human life. Take full opportunity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't waste a single moment. This is the instruction. And even if you develop your economic condition, then what is the gain? Real gain is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore it is said, na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ mukunda-caraṇāmbujam. You simply dedicate your life to serve Mukunda. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Mukunda. Muka means liberation. Mukti. Muk means mukti. So ānanda, the mukty-ānanda, that is real ānanda, liberation. So therefore our business is how to surrender fully unto the lotus feet of Mukunda, mukunda-caraṇāmbujam, and fully engage in His service. That is the only business of human life. Don't try to make economic development, dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41]. Don't try to become a religious person also. Religious person means strictly following the rules and regulation of varṇāśrama-dharma. That is called religious.

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

visnur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat toṣa*-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



*Varnāśrama*-dharma is called dharma. Dharma... There is brāhmaṇa. He has got his duties, prescribed duties. Kṣatriya, he has got his prescribed duties. This is all explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. And vaiśya, he has got his prescribed duties. So even if you are executing your occupational duties very perfectly, but if you do not enhance your Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is useless. Dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. It is useless. You can say, "I am executing my brāhmaṇa-dharma very nicely." No. Even if you are executing,



*dharma*-svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viśvaksena kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*Even if you are execute your occupational duties very nicely, but if you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. The real purpose of life is mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam. That is real purpose of life. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't try to anything else, so-called happiness or distress." So-called happiness, distress, we should always remember. Even the distress, we should neither... (end)





760620SB.TOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.4

-

Toronto, June 20, 1976



*Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Endeavors merely for sense gratification or material happiness through economic development are not to be performed, for they result only in a loss of time and energy, with no actual profit. If one's endeavors are directed toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can surely attain the spiritual platform of self*-realization. There is no such benefit from engaging oneself in economic development."



Prabhupāda:



*tat*-prayāso na kartavyo

*yata āyur*-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ

*mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam

[SB 7.6.4]



*This is the essence of instruction of all Vedic instructions. What is that? Na tat prayāso kartavyo. Everyone is engaged for developing economic condition. The whole world is engaged how to develop economic condition. There were so many empires, especially in the Western countries. The British Empire, what was their aim? To develop economic condition. Bring money from all over the world in London, and become lord, baron, this, that. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't endeavor for all these things." Don't endeavor. "Why not? Shall I not?" "No," he said, "No, you should not." Why? Yata āyur*-vyayaḥ. "You are simply wasting time." Wasting time. The so-called economic development may be temporary. Actually, you cannot improve. We can see practically, so many people, in big, big cities, they are trying to develop their economic condition to improve their status of life, but do you think that everyone is successful? In big, big cities, in our country India, Calcutta, Bombay, at least, we have seen it that everyone, there are so many millions of people, they are trying, but still you'll find somebody is living in palace building and somebody is living in slum. "Everyone has got equal chance in big, big cities. They can improve." No. That is not possible. In Western countries, when I did not come to your country I thought USA or in Europe, there is no poor man. I was thinking like that. But when I came, I actually saw there are so many poor men. Why they could not take advantage of the facilities in the Western countries and be equal? No, that is not possible. According to the nature's arrangement, there are three modes of condition: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So every one of us is under either of these sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So always you'll find three classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class. Also fourth-class, fifth-class. But we are taking the first three. Or, in other words, some class richer, some class middle class men, and poor men. Everywhere you'll find, all over the world. Either in USA or in Europe or in India. You cannot change that. That is not possible. But because we are not educated in the aim, understanding what is the aim of life, we are misled.



*That is also, Prahlāda Mahārāja says in another place, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇoḥ durāśayā ye bahir-arthah-māninaḥ. People, general, people in general, they do not know what is the aim of life. The aim of life is this: back to home, back to Godhead. This is aim of life. There is no other aim. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūraya. That is the aim of life: how to reach Viṣṇu-pada. And here it is also said, mukunda-caraṇāmbujam. This is aim of life. Without attempting how to regain the shelter of mukunda-caraṇāmbujam, if you simply waste your time for economic development or improving the standard of your living, it is simply waste of time. This is the law of nature. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tat-prayāso na kartavyo. Tat-prayāso means in the previous verse it is said that sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā. Everyone is trying. Why they are working so hard? Sukham aindriyakam. Just to get some sense gratification. That's all. This is the only aim.

In another place Ṛṣabhadeva says,

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



The real problem is that how to stop to get another another body. Where is that education? They do not know what is material body or there is spiritual body. No knowledge. Big, big scientists, philosophers, but they have no knowledge even that "What I am." Everyone is thinking, "I am this body." And in the śāstra if anyone is thinking like that, he's no better than the dogs and cats because dog is also thinking like that.



*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat tīrtha*-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Animals. Go means cows and khara means ass. So without self*-realization, without understanding what I am, whether I am this body or something other than the body, without this knowledge, it is animal civilization.



*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't waste your time in the matter of animal civilization." Na tat prayāso kartavyo. "Don't waste your time." It is very important verse. Everyone is trying to improve the condition of animal life, that's all. What is animal life? Eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Our big, big states, big, big countries, especially nowadays, USA and Russia or China, manufacturing atom bomb. So what is this atom bomb? Defense. Defense. How to get out of fear. Āhāra*-nidra-bhaya. Bhaya means fearfulness. So why they are manufacturing this atom bomb? To get out of fearfulness. That you may try, but it will never be successful. You may waste your time but you'll never be successful. Bhaya will always be there; *either you have got atom bomb or any big type of defense, when death will come, it will not defend you. By force. That is God. You may try to make very good arrangement for defending, but your life will never be saved. Mṛtyu*-sarva-haraś cāham. The atheistic class of men, they are trying to make arrangement for defending his life, but Kṛṣṇa says that "I'll come to you as death. I'll take out all your possessions." Mṛtyu-sarva-haraś cāham. "Whatever defensive measure you have made, I'll take everything. You'll be alone." "No, my nation, my country, my society, my wife, my children, my bank balance, they'll save me." No, that will not save you.

Then what is that verse?

dehāpatya kalatrādiṣv

*ātma*-sainyeṣv asatsv api

teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*Everything is discussed. Everyone is thinking that "I have got a very strong body. I run five miles a day. So I have made a so strong body, I'll never die." "That is not possible sir. You have to die." So dehāpatya. "My sons are very well educated. They are holding big, big post, minister. They will." Deha*-apatya. "No, sir. They'll not be able to." Dehāpatya kalatra. "My wife is so sincere, so faithful. She will give me protection." "No, sir." Dehāpatya kalatrādiṣu [SB 2.1.4]. We are thinking ātma-sainya: "They are my soldiers. I am struggling for existence and these soldiers will give me protection." So the Bhāgavata says, teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. He's so mad that he knows that "These things will be finished. Nobody will be able to give me protection," still he... Pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. So these attempts will not give me protection. And as soon as this body's finished, another body's waiting. That you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. That you have to know by your work. Urdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Now if this time, this life I may become a prime minister and big, big man. But when I come in politics I have to deal with so many people in so many nefarious ways and lives that out of my karma, I'll get the next body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. You'll get the next body according to your karma. Now if I've acted just like menial animal, then next life animal. If I become a dog... This life I am minister, prime minister, and next life I become a dog, then what is my profit? But that is nature's law. There is no consideration that "You are a prime minister then you, oh, you respectable post." No. Daiva-netreṇa. The superior management will see in which way you have acted-either as a dog or as a god. That will be taken into consideration. Not your position.

But these rascals, they do not understand that everyone is strictly under the laws of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*This is the position. Independently doing everything, irresponsibly doing everything, do not care for sinful activities. This is implication. Entanglement. Therefore Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. If you do not act for yajña... Yajña means to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is called yajña. (aside:) What is that exercise? So, yajñarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. The, here Prahlāda Mahārāja says yajña means to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore varṇāśrama-dharma, according to Vedic civilization.



varṇāśrama ācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇu-ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



The human life is meant for viṣṇu-ārādhanam. That is therefore the varṇāśrama: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The aim is viṣṇu-ārādhanam. Viṣṇu-ārādhanam param. We are flattering so many people to get some benefit. Everyone has to flatter. Businessman has to flatter his customer; a servant has to flatter his master; and so on, so on, some friend, some minister to get some favor. But Lord Śiva says, "So why don't you flatter Viṣṇu? Viṣṇu-ārādhanaṁ param." Tadīyānām ārādhanam. This is the sastric injunction.



*So we must take to śāstra*-vidhi. This is the actual advancement of civilization. Because life after life we have forgotten about our relationship with God, and this is the only chance, human form of life, we can revive our relationship with God. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that anādi bahir-mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli' gelā ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karilā. Why these Veda, Purāṇas are there? Especially in India, we have got so many Vedic literatures. First of all, the four Vedas-Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva. Then their gist philosophy, Vedānta-sūtra. Then Vedānta explanation, the Purāṇas. Purāṇa means supplementary. Ordinary person, they cannot understand the Vedic language. Therefore from historical references these Vedic principles are taught. That is called Purāṇas. And the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called Mahā-purāṇa. It is spotless Purāṇa, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because in other Purāṇas there are material activities, but in this Mahā-purāṇa, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, simply spiritual activities. That is wanted. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was written by Vyāsadeva under the instruction of Nārada. Mahā-purāṇa. So we have to take advantage of this. So many valuable literatures. The human life is meant for that. Why you are neglecting? Our attempt is, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to spread this knowledge of the Vedas and the Purāṇas so that the human being can take advantage of it and make his life successful. Otherwise, if he simply labors hard, day and night, like the hog... The hog is day and night working very hard to find out "Where is stool? Where is stool?" And after eating stool, as soon as they get little fat... The pigs are fatty therefore because stool contains all the essence of food. According to medical science, the stool is full of hydrophosphates. So hydrophosphate is good tonic. So one may try if they like. (laughter) But actually this is the fact. The pig becomes very fatty because it is stool.

*So this life is not meant for becoming a pig or hog. One should become a saintly person. That is human civilization. Therefore in the Vedic civilization*-brāhmaṇa, the first-class men. There is no first-class men now in this society. Everyone third class, fourth class, fifth class. Satya-śama-dama-titkṣa ārjava jñānaṁ-vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. This is first-class man. Truthful, very peaceful, full of knowledge, very simple, tolerant, and believer in the śāstra. These are the symptoms of first-class men. So where is that first-class man throughout the whole world? So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to create at least one section first-class men so that people may see, "Oh, here are ideal men." Therefore my request to persons who have joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they should very carefully keep them as first-class men. People will appreciate and they will try to follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. If there is a class of men first class, then people will appreciate. At least, they will try to follow, even though are unable to become first class. They will try to follow. Tat tad eva, sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute lokas tad anuvartate. So that is first-class man required. If he acts, then others will follow. If a teacher does not smoke, the students also will stop smoking naturally. But if the teacher is smoking, how the students...? They are also smoking in the class. I have seen in New York. At least in India this is not yet begun. It will begin. Because they are also making progress. (laughter) These rascals are making progress, going to hell.

*So, Prahlāda Mahārāja advises, don't waste your valuable time in so*-called economic development and nonsense activities. Try to become a devotee of Mukunda. Then your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



751207SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.5

-

Vṛndāvana, December 7, 1975



Harikeśa: Translation: "For this reason, a person who is fully competent to distinguish wrong and right while keeping himself in material existence, bhavam āśritaḥ, must endeavor for achieving the highest goal of life so long the body is stout and strong and is not embarrassed by the dwindling condition of life."



Prabhupāda:



tato yateta puruṣaḥ

ksemāya bhavam āśritaḥ

śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan

na vipadyeta puṣkalam

[SB 7.6.5]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that people are engaged for improving economic condition. He has cancelled that tat prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur vyayaḥ param. Prahlāda Mahārāja derides that "These people who are simply wasting time for improving material condition, āhāra*-nidrā-bhayaṁ maithun, they are not at all intelligent, because simply wasting time, valuable time." That I have explained yesterday, how important is this human form of life. Every moment should be utilized. Every moment is so valuable that if we lose one moment we lose so many hundred thousands of dollars. That they do not understand.



*So how time can be utilized very nicely, that was also explained yesterday, mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam. Just to take shelter of Mukunda. Mukunda means who can deliver you from this conditional life. He is called Mukunda. That is the whole thing. Kṛṣṇa comes... The whole Bhagavad-gītā teaching ultimately ends with this order, mukunda-caraṇāmbujam. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the ultimate. But because people have become deviated, fallen, they do not know what is the aim of life, what is the goal of life. They are simply wasting time. Vimara-cetaḥ (?). Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My Lord, I am not very much anxious for me because I have no trouble. As I have learned to chant Your glories, so anywhere I am happy simply by glorifying Your activities. But I am unhappy for this reason: when I see that these rascals simply for little material happiness, they are working so hard." Tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. "They have forgotten You." Vimukha cetasam. They think that "What is the use of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Vimukha. And what is required? Māyā-sukhāya. For few years to live in material comforts, bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, they are manufacturing so many big, big skyscraper building, nice road, nice car. Māyā-sukhāya. In Western countries there is very... We are also imitating in India like Bombay city and others, bharam udvahato, gorgeous arrangement. And what for? For living for a few years. Then he is going to cats and dogs. He doesn't know that. Therefore māyā-sukhāya. If somebody says that "You come here at my place. I shall give you very good food, nice shelter, all comforts, and after few days I shall drive you away and I shall beat you with my shoes," will anybody agree? No. So we are doing that. Forgetting our real business, we are busy in māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43].

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja concludes this instruction in this way: tato yateta kuśalaḥ kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ. Bhavam means this material world, where we take birth and die after some time. Bhavam. Bhavam means "become, manifest." This is material world. We take birth, we exist for some time, we grow, then there are some by*-products, and then we become old and then die. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes. But the ātmā is the same. The example is given: just like a tree, any tree, say a mango tree. During season, summer season there are flowers in the tree, and then they grow a small green mango, then it becomes yellow or reddish, and then it becomes ripened. Then there is a seed within the mango. And then, when it is over-ripened, it falls down. Then finished, business finished. Similarly... But when the mango is finished, it does not mean the tree is also finished. The tree is there, and again, in the next season, there will be mango and the same changes will go on. Similarly... It is a crude example. We spirit soul, we are eternal exactly like the tree. Tree is not eternal, but in comparison to the fruit, it is eternal. A tree lives for hundred thousand, five hundred, years and the same business go on. The mango, it is coming in fu..., just like flower, then green, then grows, then dwindles. So we are eternal, and our different bodies are just like seasonal fruits. On account of our different karma, we get different body. So this body is undergoing the six kind of changes. But the soul, he is not going any change. He is the same.

*So here it is said that we are changing, bhava. Ever*-increasingly we are taking birth. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. This is our actual distress, that we are obliged to take birth, death, disease, old age. So we are struggling against it. Nobody wants to become old man, especially in this winter season. It is very difficult for old men. So, but you have to accept jarā and vyādhi. Nobody can escape disease. Nobody can escape birth. Nobody can escape death. But struggle is going on. When you are diseased, there is a great struggle how to cure myself, go to the doctor, take good medicine and so on, so on. But we cannot check the diseased condition. Similarly, we cannot check our old age, cannot check our birth, death. Therefore here it is said, kuśalaḥ. Kuśalaḥ means if you actually want benefit, because this kind of struggling has not given you any benefit, but if you want actually benefit, kuśalaḥ, tato yateta, then you should endeavor for this. What is that? Ksemāya, for your ultimate benefit. And how long? Śarīraṁ puruṣaṁ yāvan na vipadyeta puṣkalam. So long you are stout and strong, you should try how to become free from this bondage of birth, death, old age and disease, not that you keep yourself, this business set aside: "When we shall get old then we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and become Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is not the meaning. Immediately. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very beginning of life, when kaumāra, a small child, boy, from that age one should begin this bhāgavata life, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is called brahmacārī, to teach brahmacarya from the very beginning of life. And when you are young, then you should work with more vigor and intelligence. At that time brain is very nice. Young man has got all the facilities. The machine is strong. This is a machine. So old machine cannot so work. So it is a great fortune for the young boys and girls of Europe and America that in this young life they are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is a very good fortune.

*Here it is recommended by Prahlāda Mahārāja, śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan na vipadyeta puṣkalam. So long you do not become invalid, old, unable to work, you should try. Not try, you must-yateta*-for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that "When I shall become old, before death I shall try a few months Hare Kṛṣṇa." No. From the very beginning of life, from childhood, they should be taught how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, how to attend maṅgala ārati, how to... In this way, by this practice, vidhi, vidhi-bhakti, regulated principle, tapasya... This is called tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. If you want to purify your existence, then you should begin... That is human life, tapasya. Human life is not meant for polished dogism and pigism. That is not human life. If a cat and dog becomes nicely dressed, that does not mean he becomes a human being. He is cat and dog. Similarly, if we keep our mentality like cats and dog and outwardly we dress very nicely, they have been described as dvi-pada-paśuḥ, "two-legged animal." Animal. He is animal because he is not cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The cats and dogs cannot do it, so he is no better than cats and dog. This is the conclusion. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. That is the verdict of Vedic literature.

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

*yat tīrtha*-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ



*Just like in Vṛndāvana many visitors come. They think that by simply taking a dip into the Yamunā water their tīrtha is finished, pilgrimage is finished. But śāstra says, yat tīrtha*-buddhiḥ salile. If one comes to Vṛndāvana and simply takes advantage of taking a bath in the river Yamunā, that is also very good, but that does not finish his business. He must seek out where in Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa consciousness is going on, janeṣu abhijñeṣu, "Where there is a person who can teach me about Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is humanity. Otherwise, if he thinks simply by going to Vṛndāvana and taking a dip in Yamunā or shaving the head and purchasing some utensils for sons and daughter, their tīrtha... They have been described as sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni. When you go some holy place, because in the holy place there are many persons who are very learned, who can give you very good instruction about spiritual life, so you must seek such person and associate with him. That is tīrtha. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni. Because it is said in the śāstra that ordinary men with sinful habits, they come to tīrtha, holy place, and actually they become purified. Actually they become purified. That is the glory of tīrtha-sthāna, dhāma. But when such sinful garbage is accumulated, who will clear? It will be cleared by the saintly person, by their puṇya work. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrtha... Again they make it tīrtha.



*So therefore it is advised... So anyone who is coming to Vṛndāvana, they must seek out the devotees who have dedicated to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and trying to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the ignorant people who are busy in material activities. This is tīrtha. Therefore it is recommended. In India you'll find so many tīrthas, so many tīrthas*-Prayag, Mathurā, Vṛndāvana, Hardwar, Rāmeśvaram. That is the arrangement. And after retirement of life, vanaṁ vrajet. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Prahlāda Mahārāja also said to his father, hitvātmā-ghāṭaṁ gṛha-andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad harim āśrayeta. Formerly big, big kings, everyone-compulsory retirement, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Vanam means go to the forest. One who goes to the forest, he is called vānaprastha. From vana, the word vana, has come vānaprastha. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet, that "After fifty years of age one must go to the forest for meditation, for tapasya, austerity." And when he is perfectly trained up... This training is given from brahmacārī life, gṛhastha life also, but people are not taking training. They are not kuśalam. Actually they do not know what is the aim of life. They are cats and dogs. So one who is kuśala, actually knows the aim of life, for him, yateta ksemāya bhavam āśritaḥ. Because in the material existence it is simply suffering. But these foolish men, they do not understand. They are thinking, "Enjoyment." How you can enjoy? Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: [Bg. 8.15] "This is a place for suffering." Actually suffering, tri-tapa-yātanaḥ, adhibhautika, adhidaivika adhi... But because they have become fools and rascals, they do not understand that they are suffering. They are taking it they are enjoying. Bhavam āśritaḥ. Therefore, anyone who is in such condition, abominable condition, condemned condition, they must take to shelter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so long the body is strong enough. [break] ...when the body is old and it cannot move, it is attacked with rheumatism, and so many other things, indigestion. No. So long it is śarīraṁ puruṣam. Puruṣam, why this word used? There are women also. Puruṣam does not mean man. Puruṣam means one who wants to enjoy. He is called puruṣa. Anyone here in the material world, although one has got the body of a male or although one has got the body of a female, both of them are for enjoyment. Therefore it is used, puruṣa. Puruṣa means enjoyer. So either the woman or man, the propensity is how to enjoy life. Therefore it is called. So either puruṣa, the male or female, anyone who has got this body, he must perform Kṛṣṇa consciousness until she becomes... It should go on. If you practice when you are stout and strong... Just like a person begins exercising in young age, and in the old age also he can perform exercise. Practice, anything you practice, that is recommended. Yateta kuśalaḥ ksemāya bhavam āśritaḥ.

*So this is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction, that "Don't waste your time. Human life is very valuable." And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita also says, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ: "You cannot get back even one moment of your life by paying millions of dollars. So if you waste your time..." The Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they should not be lazy. They should always remember that death is already there. Let me finish my business properly so that after death I may not be a cat and dog. At least I may get... There is no... My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Why should you wait for another life? Finish Kṛṣṇa consciousness business in this life." In this life. Why you should set aside the business for another life? No. Tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtya pateta yāvat. This is the instruction of... Before the next death you should prepare yourself for death. Death is inevitable. You cannot avoid death. But before the next death comes, if you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your life is successful. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. What is Kṛṣṇa? Try to understand Kṛṣṇa-Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, why He appears, why He disappears, what is His nature, who is He. So many things are to be known. Kṛṣṇa is God. He is not an ordinary thing. He has got unlimited qualities, unlimited function. And if we simply understand that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam... [SB 1.3.28]. Without going into the details, if we accept simply this fact, that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva, and everything is the exhibition of His different energies," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19], if you simply understand, even if blindly, that everything, whatever we see, that is exhibition of Kṛṣṇa's energy... Just like in this material world the practical example is, whatever we see, the trees and the plants and buildings, the chemicals, the... Everything is generating from the sunlight, energy of the sun globe. Similarly, whatever we see... Kṛṣṇa says also,

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagat avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



Kṛṣṇa is manifest by His energy. So if we understand these things, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is nothing but Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. If everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, things belonging to a certain person, it must be utilized for Him. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that your property I can utilize for my benefit. That is stealing. That is cheating. So similarly, if we understand parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat, "Everything, whatever we see, it is distribution or manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy..." That is explained:



bhāmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca

bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



apareyam itas tu

viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā

*jīva*-bhūtā mahā-baho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*Everything is explained. So if you simply try to understand Bhagavad*-gītā and don't play rascaldom by interpreting in a different way, then your life is successful. Simply. Kṛṣṇa has left, therefore, before His leaving this world. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmi [Bg. 4.7]. He comes when you forget all these things. He comes again. He establishes dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. What is that dharma? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "All this rascaldom, cheating dharma, give up. Simply surrender unto Me."



*So if you simply learn this art, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then the result will be tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. You have to give up this body. That is certain. But if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you have to accept another body. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. So don't do this business. Finish this business. Samupeta*-mṛtyum. Na mocayed yaḥ samupetya-mṛtyum. This material existence means repetition of birth and death, bhavāśritaḥ. So if we want to be saved and elevated to our original position, then only means is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other way out. That is stated by Prahlāda, mukunda-caraṇāmbujam. He does not say for any other gods. Mukunda. Then what about others who are worshiping other demigods? Mūḍhā. They have been... Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānā yajanty anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. These rascals are befooled on account of lusty desires. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām [Bg. 7.23]. Suppose you worship a demigod. Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. You can be elevated to the celestial world, heavenly planet. But what will be benefit? You'll have to die there. The same death is there. You have to struggle there. Don't think that the demigods, they are living very peacefully. No. That is not possible. Indra is always embarrassed with so many things. You have read the fight with Indra. So many asuras, devāsura, Hiraṇyakaśipu. The same thing as... Simply they have got a long duration of life, a high standard of life, but the same struggle. Just like here you see in India and Europe, America. They have got the high standard of life, they have got skyscraper building, very big, big roads, motorcar. But what is that? Simply struggling. Are they happy? We are poor country. Of course, we have no such opulence. But the standard, the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9], is there, not that they are sitting idly and food is coming automatically. No. They have to struggle. So either you be in the heavenly planet or in the lowest planet, the struggle is there. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. So long we'll be in the material world, you have to... Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even you go to the Brahmaloka or Indraloka, Candraloka... They are trying to go to the Candraloka. They are trying to go to the Candraloka, but they do not know where is Candraloka. They are going and coming, going and coming. So one must know it that "Even if I go to the Brahmaloka by our material power, that is also punar āvartino arjuna. That is bhavam āśritaḥ." So we should try to avoid the material existence and come to our original life, eternal life, blissful life, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. That is really solution of the problem, ksemāya. Kuśalaḥ ksemāya. So long this human body we have got, and especially young men, don't spoil it. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



760621SB.TOR

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.5

-

Toronto, June 21, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) Translation: "Therefore, while in material existence (bhavam āśritaḥ), a person fully competent to distinguish wrong from right must endeavor to achieve the highest goal of life as long as the body is stout and strong and is not embarrassed by dwindling."



Prabhupāda:



tato yateta kuśalaḥ

kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ

śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan

na vipadyeta puṣkalam

[SB 7.6.5]



*So this should be the human activity, that śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan na vipadyeta puṣkalam. So long we are stout and strong and we can work very nicely, the health is quite all right, take advantage of it. It is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for the lazy fellow. No. It is meant for the strong man: strong in body, strong in mind, strong in determination-everything strong-strong in brain. It is meant for them. Because we have to execute the highest goal of life. Unfortunately, they do not know what is the highest goal of life. The modern... Not modern, always. Now it is very conspicuous: people do not know what is the aim of life. Anyone who is in this material world, he is in māyā, means he does not know what is the goal of life. Na te viduḥ, they do not know, svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. Svārtha-gati. Everyone is supposed to be self-interested. Self-interest is the first law of nature, they say. But they do not know what is self-interest. He, instead of going back to home, back to Godhead*-that is his real self-interest-he's going to become a dog in the next life. Is that self-interest? But they do not know it. How nature's law is working, they do not know it. Na te viduḥ. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā.



matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*That, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, matir na kṛṣṇe. People are very much reluctant to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Why? Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. By others' instruction Just like we are trying to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, parataḥ. Svato, svato means personally. By personal endeavor. Just I am reading Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and other Vedic literature. So, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Mitho vā, mitho vā means "by conference." Nowadays it is a very popular thing to hold conferences. So one cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious either by his personal endeavor or by advice of some other men or by holding big, big conferences. Why? Gṛha-vratānām: because his real aim of life is that "I shall remain in this house." Gṛha-vratānām. Gṛha means household life, gṛha means this body, gṛha means this universe. There are so many gṛhas, big and small.



*So here it is said, tato yateta kuśalaḥ kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ. Bhavam, this material world is called bhavaḥ. And those who are within this material world, they are called bhava*-rogī, means diseased, in the bhava disease. Bhava means "you become." Bhava. So here in this material world is..., to become bhava. I have already taken birth in some family, I have already become something, bhava, but I'll have to die. Then finish? No, bhava. Again bhava. Again bhava. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], bhū-dhātu. So bhava, bhū, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. This is the nature, material nature. So those who are bhavam āśritaḥ... Those who have taken shelter of this material world for repeatedly taking birth and death and suffering old age and disease, they are called bhavam āśritaḥ. So for the bhavam āśritaḥ, those who are suffering in this disease, there are other, bhavauṣadhi, bhavauṣadhi.

*nivṛtta*-tarṣair upagīyamānād

*bhavauṣadhāc chrotra*-mano-'bhirāmāt

*ka uttamaśloka*-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

[SB 10.1.4]



Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt means the slayer (indistinct), killer of animals. Or killer of himself. Paśughnāt. So paśu means life. So they are killing. So this civilization is a killing civilization. Because the human being has got the opportunity for get out of this bhavam-āśritaḥ, this material world where he has to take birth and death, accept birth and death again and again. So this is an opportunity to get out of it. But they are not being properly educated. They are being forced to accept this chronic disease and suffer perpetually. This is the modern civilization.



*But Vedic civilization is not like that. Vedic civilization is how to rescue him from this disease, bhava*-roga. Bhava-roga, to cure this bhava-roga, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has also prescribed, and it is since the creation, Vedic knowledge is that bhavauṣadhi. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād [SB 10.1.4]. This chanting of the holy name of the Lord is called nivṛtta tarṣair upagīyamānād. This chanting can be performed by nivṛtta tarṣair, one who has ceased from all kinds of tṛṣṇa, or desire: sarvopādhi vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170] or anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. One who has become free from all kinds of material desires, for them, this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is possible, is very successful (indistinct). But still, those who are not free from these material desires, it is recommended by Parīkṣit Mahārāja Nivṛtta-tarṣair. Actually this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra should be done by the liberated persons. But still, those who are not liberated, bhavam-āśritaḥ, for them it is bhavauṣadhi: the disease, medicine of this disease. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhi chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt [SB 10.1.4]. It is very pleasing to the ear and the mind. Chrotra, chrotra means ear and mano means mind. Even one is not liberated, still, it is so pleasing to the ear and the mind. Bhavauṣadhac chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. Such a nice thing. What is that? Uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt. Uttamaśloka means the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is prayed by selected poems. Uttama, transcendental poetry, transcendental songs. He's worshiped by transcendental vibration of sound. Ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt. Who keeps himself aloof from this transcendental vibration of sound? Vinā paśughnāt. Simply the person who is animal killer. Therefore, meat-eating is so dangerous for a devotee. Because one who is animal killer, he'll never be attracted. Therefore we prescribe that no animal killing. Meat-eater means other things will follow. Illicit sex will follow and drinking will follow. Because you cannot digest meat by water. You must drink. That is the fact. It is so heavy that unless Therefore, madhyamanusa (indistinct), they are four relatives. If you eat meat, then you have to drink. Otherwise, you'll not be able to digest. Then your intestine will be digested, the wine is so strong. Therefore the drunkard must take In India we have seen, everywhere. This wine and meat, they are together. Because you have to digest.

*So nivṛtta*-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhac chrotra, vinā-paśughnāt [SB 10.1.4]. We have to become very simple and pure. Then it is possible to relish the transcendental chanting. So bhavam āśritaḥ. For one who has taken shelter, actually this is not our place. This very word is used, āśritaḥ. Unfortunately we have taken shelter of this material world. Otherwise it is not our place. We are spirit soul, sanātana, and there is a sanātana-dhāma, place. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. This word is used, sanātanaḥ. Means eternal. These living entities, they're eternal. They are not meant for this world. Here, nothing is eternal; everything is temporary. So why we should remain here? It is not. Therefore it is called bhavam āśritaḥ. Unfortunately, he has taken shelter of this place where he has to die and take birth again. So bhavam āśritaḥ. So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends, tato yateta kuśalaḥ. If one is interested for his upliftment, kuśalaḥ... Kuśalaḥ means auspicity. Everyone wants auspicity. Tato yateta kuśalaḥ kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ. Ultimate auspicity or ultimate goal of life. So long the body is strong... Not that... Prahlāda Mahārāja has begun, kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. General education also. Education is given to the children, not to the old men. Because that is the rising of the body. He's receptive; *he can take. Prahlāda Mahārāja's recommendation is that so long we are strong, we are in working order, we are not feeble or all energy lost... No. When you have got full energy, full strength, young men, children, they should take this lesson of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is recommended for them. Not for the old man who has lost everything. But they have taken it that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is for the old man who is going to die. But here it is recommended*-no, for the strong man, youthful children, like that. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending, because the business is very important. Bhavam āśritaḥ: to get out of this bhava. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].

*So now, we find from the Bhagavad*-gītā, there are three words. Sanātanaḥ, eternal, is used there. First thing is this jīva, these living entities, they have been described as sanātanaḥ. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. We are living entities, sanātanaḥ. It is not that we have become jīva-bhūtaḥ by the influence of māyā. We have put ourself in the influence of māyā; *therefore we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. Actually we are sanātana. Sanātana means eternal. Nityo śāśvata. Jivātmā is described: nityo śāśvato yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. That is sanātana. So we are so less intelligent that if I am eternal, sanātana, I have no birth and death, why I have been put into this tribulation of birth and death? This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But we are not educated. But we should be educated. At least we should take advantage of this instruction. We are sanātana. And another world is there, mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. This material world is manifested, and background of this is the total material energy, mahāt-tattva. That is not manifested. So vyakto 'vyaktāt. Beyond this there is another nature, a spiritual nature, sanātana. That is called sanātana. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. And the jīva-bhūtaḥ-sanātana. And in the Eleventh Chapter, Arjuna describes Kṛṣṇa as sanātana. So three sanātana. Three sanātana. So if we are all sanātana, there is sanātana-dhāma and Kṛṣṇa is sanātana, we are also sanātana. So when they are combined together, that is called sanātana-dharma. They do not know what is sanātana. They think that if I dress in a certain way and if I am born in a certain community, then I become sanātana-dharma. No. Everyone can become sanātana-dharma. But they do not know what is the meaning of sanātana. Every living entity is sanātana. And Kṛṣṇa, God is sanātana. And there is a place where we can meet together*-that is sanātana dhāma. Sanātana dhāma, sanātana-bhakti, (indistinct), sanātana-dhāma. When it is executed, that is called sanātana-dharma. So what is that sanātana-dharma? Suppose I return to that sanātana-dhāma and there is God, sanātana, and I am sanātana. So what is our sanātana activities? Does it mean that when I go to sanātana-dhāma I become God? No. You do not become God. Because God is one. He's the Supreme Lord, Master, and we are servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. So here every one of us, we are claiming to become Kṛṣṇa. But when you return to the sanātana-dhāma, then we-unless we are qualified we cannot go there-then we eternally engage in the service of the Lord. That is sanātana-dharma.

*So you practice it. The sanātana-dharma means this bhakti-yoga. Because we have forgotten. Everyone is trying to become God. Now practice here how to become a servant of God. And if you are qualified, factually, that now you are rest assured that you have become a servant of God, that is bhakti-mārga. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. When you are expert in becoming the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the Lord-hundred times down, servant-then you are perfect [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. But here everyone is trying to become the Supreme Lord. Somebody is misusing the word "so 'ham," "ahaṁ brahmāsmi" and therefore "I am the Supreme." But that is not. These are Vedic words, but so 'ham does not mean "I am God." So 'ham means "I am also the same quality." Because mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Jīva is the part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa, so the quality is the same. Just like you take a drop of water from the sea. So the chemical composition of the whole water of the sea and a drop of water*-the same. That is called so 'ham or brahmāsmi. Not that we misuse these words, Vedic version, and I think falsely that "I am God. I have become God." And if you are God, then why you become a dog? Does God becomes dog? No. That is not possible. Because we are minute particle. That is also mentioned in the śāstra:

*keśāgra-śata*-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīvaḥ bhāgo sa vijñeya

sa anantyaya kalpate

[Cc. Madhya 19.140]



*Our spiritual identity is that we are ten*-thousandth part of the top of the hair. It is like a very small, we divide it into ten thousand part, and one, that is our identity. And that small identity is within this body. So where you'll find it? You have no such machine. Therefore we say nirākāra. No, there is ākāra, but it is so minute and small, tlat it is not possible to see with this material eyes. So we have to see through the version of Vedas. Śāstra cakṣuṣa. That is the Vedānta version. We have to see through the śāstra. Not by these blunt eyes. That is not possible.



So all these things should be discussed, should be understood, so long we are young, strong, brain is in order. Then our life will be successful. And Prahlāda Mahārāja is advising:

tato yateta kuśalaḥ

kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ

śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan

na vipadyeta puṣkalam



So long you are strong, try your best to understand the instruction of Kṛṣṇa and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and make your life successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



751208SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.6

-

Vṛndāvana, December 8, 1975



Harikeśa: "Every human being's duration of life is maximum one hundred years. Out of these one hundred years, persons who cannot control the senses misuse half of them. Therefore such persons' duration of life is fifty years. The other balance, fifty years, is completely lost because at night he sleeps eight to twelve hours."



Prabhupāda:



puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyus

*tad*-ardhaṁ cājitātmanaḥ

niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ

śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ

[SB 7.6.6]



*Now, āyur*-vyayaḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja has already explained how these foolish persons are simply wasting time for economic development: "I shall get money, and with money, dharma, artha, kāma, I shall satisfy my senses." This is going on, dharmārtha-kāma. Nobody is trying for mokṣa. Dharma-artha... They come to the temple just to become a dharmī, but the real purpose is: "My dear Lord, I am very poor man. Please give me some money." Dharma, artha. And what he will do with money? Kāma: "I shall satisfy my senses." This is going on.



*So Kṛṣṇa gives them. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. It is not that Kṛṣṇa does not give... Kṛṣṇa satisfies always. For this reason, it is recommended that even if you have got some lusty desires to fulfill, still, you go to Kṛṣṇa and He will satisfy it. Don't go to other demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānā yajanty anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Generally people go to other demigod for fulfilling their lusty desires: "Mother, Goddess Kālī, I am very great devotee of you. Kindly allow me to eat meat." That's all. Mother says, "All right, bring one black goat and offer me and then take prasādam." This is meant for the meat-eaters. The purpose is to restrain him. Instead of purchasing meat from the slaughterhouse, the śāstra says, "All right, you meat eat in this way." This is restriction. This is not indulgence. Loke vyavāya-āmiṣa-madya-sevā nityāstu jantuḥ nāhi tatra codanaḥ. To eat meat, to have sex life, āmiṣa-madya-sevā, and to drink intoxication, these things are naturally there, so why śāstra should encourage them? "Yes, you can eat meat by offering pūjā, worship to Goddess Kālī." "Yes, you may have sex life by marrying." In this way, they're śāstras. They are mentioned. But this is not encouraging. This is restraining, that if he is not married, he will enjoy sex life like cats and dogs. Therefore śāstra says, "All right, don't become cats and dog. Become a human being and get married and have your sex life under restrain." Similarly, "If you are rākṣasa*-you want to eat meat-don't eat like rākṣasa. Better offer a goat to be sacrificed before Goddess Kālī." This is śāstra. Because the goat will be benefited. Because it is offering his life before Goddess Kālī, he will immediately get the body of human being, immediately promotion. He is benefited, and he has the right to kill this man. These are the injunction in the śāstras.

*So śāstra never encouraging this, but those who are in the tamo*-guṇa, in the darkness, just to raise them gradually to the sattva-guṇa, some concession is given. Just like government. Government opens liquor shop. The liquor shop is opened not to encourage. Nowadays, of course, the situation is different. But the fact is that if the government does not open liquor shop, these rascals will distill liquor every home. Therefore government gives some concession. These are concession. These are not required at all. For human being they are not required. Therefore we restrict, "No intoxication, no meat-eating..." It is not required. Simply we are habituated to indulge in these sinful activities. They are not required. To speak frankly, there is no necessity even for marrying. There is no necessity. If one can remain a brahmacārī all through, that is a great benefit. Great benefit. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. What is the benefit? It is increasing botheration. But they are trying to get out of botheration. Just like we see advertisement, "One, two, three-bās-no more children." And other... "What I shall do?" "Now, kill, that's all. Kill them by contraceptive method or directly. Don't allow more than one, two, three children." They understand that "This is botheration." And the śāstra also says, "Botheration."

*yan*-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ

*kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha*-duḥkham

*tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ

kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ

[SB 7.9.45]



*"All right, I have begotten one child. I have to take care of, so much care always." But, "All right, you have trouble, taken so much trouble. Stop here. No more." "No, again." Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. There's so many botherations, but still, we do it practically. Why? It is said that ajitātmanaḥ, cannot control the senses, become victimized, victims of sense enjoyment, ajitātmanaḥ.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is speaking of these ajitātmanaḥ, those rascals who cannot control the senses. First their business is sleep as much as possible-twelve hours, fourteen hours. In the Western countries sometimes sixteen hours or twenty-four hours. In the beginning, in that Second Avenue, 26, when our morning prayer was going on, at seven, not very early, and so many other tenants, half-naked... Mr. Judah was our landlord. "Mr. Judah, what is this going on? What is going on? Stop it. Stop it. Stop." So Mr. Judah used to say, "No, no, they'll not stop. I cannot say. You go to the police." So sometimes police were coming to stop us, but we did not stop. (laughter) So ajitātmanaḥ. Ajitātmanaḥ. Jitātmanaḥ... The human life is meant for gaining victory over the senses. "No, better be victimized by the senses"*-this is modern civilization. Modern civilization means the more you become victimized by senses, you are advanced. So here, the ajitātmanaḥ, their first business is to eat voraciously and to sleep unlimitedly. This is ajitātmanaḥ.

*So this ajitātmanaḥ in another place, Bhāgavata, it is said, paśyatam ātma*-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Nidrayā hriyate naktam.

nidrayā hryate naktaṁ

vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ

*apaśyatām ātma*-tattvaṁ

*gṛheṣu gṛha*-medhinām

[SB 2.1.2]



*This family life, gṛheṣu, gṛha*-medhinām, who are very much attached, this is māyā. Prahlāda Mahārāja, from the age of five years he condemned, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam: "The gṛha, this so-called family life, is a dark well." We are thinking we are very happily living with nice wife and children and working very hard, getting money. But śāstra says, "You are fallen in the dark well." Gṛham andha-kūpam. And "All right, let me remain here." "No." Ātma-pātam. If you remain in this way, then you will kill your soul. Ātma-pātam. Therefore in the Vedic civilization there is compulsory: "Get out." Pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. "Now you are fifty years old past. Immediately get out." "No, I have got so many duties. I have got this." "No, no." Vrajet, "compulsory." This verb is used, vidhiliṅ, where there is no argument; *you must. Just like when natures calls you, you must do it, similarly... This is Vedic civilization. Not that unless you are killed or being shot down by somebody else, you are not leaving the gṛham andha*-kūpam. This is not Vedic civilization. Vedic civilization is that brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. You must be prepared, especially the higher castes, especially the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas must observe the four adhyātmika principle: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha... Brāhmaṇa, they do not go even to the gṛhastha life. Remain brahmacārī. But even he goes, only for twenty-five years. It is said, puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyuḥ. So divide this varṣa-śatam, hundred years: twenty-five years, brahmacārī; *twenty*-five years, gṛhastha; *twenty*-five years, vānaprastha; *and last twenty*-five years, sannyāsa. That is real civilization, not that no brahmacārī, no vānaprastha, no sannyāsa, simply gṛhastha. They are not gṛhastha. They are called gṛhamedhi. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2]. There are two words, gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha. Gṛhastha means that is only for twenty-five years, not more than that. That is gṛhastha. And those who are gṛhastha up to the point of death, or unless he is killed, that is gṛhamedhi. Gṛhamedhi means he has made his center the wife and family. Just like one cow is, I mean, tied with the rope and with a fixed up wood, and he is going round this way, and he is thinking that he is going round the world. Yes. So gṛhamedhi means he has fixed up his center, the wife and children, and going round throughout the whole life, no ending. They are called gṛhamedhi. And gṛhastha means gṛhastha-āśrama. Gṛhamedhi-āśrama nei. Gṛhamedhi, only gṛhamedhi. And gṛhastha-āśrama. Gṛhastha-āśrama means it is as good as other āśrama, sannyāsa-āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama. If he lives according to the regulative principle, that is āśrama. That is also not for all the time, only for twenty-five years.



*So those who do not observe these rules and regulations, they are called ajitātmanaḥ, uncontrolled victims of senses, victimized by the senses, ajitātmanaḥ. So their business is to sleep as much as possible. They are never practiced to get up early in the morning. Unless they are bound or knot(?), they cannot take to this practice. These are ajitātmanaḥ. So niṣphalaṁ. These ajitātmanaḥ means they are passing their days without any benefit, niṣphalaṁ, without any result. Human life is meant for good result. Arthadam adhruvam. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. That is the Prahlāda Mahārāja's description. That is the fact. The human life is so valuable, and I shall waste it simply by sleeping? Therefore the Gosvāmīs, our predecessor gurus, they have shown. Nidrāhāra*-vihārakādi-vijitau **. They conquered over these things, nidrā, sleeping... Nidrā is very dangerous according to Vedic civilization. It is simply waste of time. If one is not serious about the value of this human form of life he may waste his time by sleeping. But no. The... If we follow our predecessors, our Gosvāmīs, who were all ministers... But they came to Vṛndāvana to practice... What? Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau, to conquer over sleeping, eating and mating. And coming to Vṛndāvana, if we indulge in that way, then what is the use of coming to Vṛndāvana? Go to hell and live there. So Vṛndāvana life is that. You have to practice nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. That is wanted.

*So those who are ajitātmanaḥ, although they have got one hundred years' age, still, fifty years they are wasting at least because they will sleep at night twelve hours. So fifty years wasted. And the other fifty years? That will be described in the next verse: twenty years by sporting, because a man, a boy, up to... It is natural, every country. They are students. Instead of becoming brahmacārī... Brahmacārī guru*-gṛhe vasan dāntaḥ. Instead of becoming śānta, dānta, very peaceful, they are indulging in sporting. This is introduced in India also. I have seen in Calcutta many young men. At twelve o'clock, no, they are playing football. Why? There is no engagement. What he'll do? Unemployment. There is no employment. Because education means to become servant, to write one application and go office to office: "Sir, give me some service." "No, no, no. No vacancy. Get out." This is education. After taking the M.A., B.A. degrees, they have no employment. So what they'll do? They'll form party of anarchist and Naxalite and play football, because they must have some engagement. Oh, this is advancement of civilization. Instead of utilizing the valuable form of human life, there is always wasting. And at night they are sleeping, and at noon they are playing football, you see, wasting in this time. So this will be explained next verse, mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīḍato yāti viṁśatiḥ: [SB 7.6.7] "By so-called sporting life, twenty years passed, fifty years by sleeping, and twenty years by football." Then seventy years passed. And jarayā grasta-dehasya yāty akalpasya viṁśatiḥ. And when he is old man: "Here is pain. Here is rheumatism. Here is...," what is called, "diabetes and so on, so on." So by treatment, by blood examination, by this..., viṁśati, another twenty years. So twenty years sporting, twenty years diabetes and fifty years sleeping-then what is left? Where is the opportunity for Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This is modern civilization.

*So we are trying to save people from this modern civilization. This is... Modern means in this age it is, excessively has increased, but this process was existent. This is the way of material life. So in the Satya*-yuga it was less, in the Tretā-yuga it was more, and the Dvāpara-yuga, it is still more, and Kali-yuga, it is full. This is the difference of ages. Therefore kalau, in this age, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Kalau saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyaiḥ yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. There is no hope for liberation from this material bondage except chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Other things, it is not possible. If you want to revive the old Vedic civilization, brahmacārī and gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya... These are all spoiled. Everything is spoiled. Then what is the position? Kalau śūdra samabhavaḥ. In this age simply they are śūdras. "So how the śūdras will be delivered? By your Kṛṣṇa conscious..." Yes. They'll be. Not only śūdras, those who are less than śūdras. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā [SB 2.4.18]. Not only śūdras, the less than the pañcamas, the fifth-grade, sixth-grade, seventh-grade, tenth-grade, all rascals and all sinful men, they will be all delivered simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. Take this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life will be saved.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol! (end)





760622SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.6

-

New Vrindaban, June 22, 1976



Devotee: "Every human being has a maximum duration of life of one hundred years, but for one who cannot control his senses, half of those years are completely lost because at night he sleeps twelve hours, being covered by ignorance. Therefore such a person has a lifetime of only fifty years."



Prabhupāda:



puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyus

*tad*-ardhaṁ cājitātmanaḥ

niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ

śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ

[SB 7.6.6]



Life is so valuable that we cannot waste even a second without any profit. That is the aim of life. The materialist persons, especially in country like yours, they calculate... I do not know. When I was in India I heard it that if you go to see an important businessman, his secretary, while talking with that man, the secretary gives you a card that "This Mr. such and such cannot spare more than two minutes." Is it a fact? Huh? Anyway, we should not waste our time, either you act materially or spiritually. But materially we have no business, although we have taken it the material business as very important and spiritual business has no meaning. This is the sum and substance of modern civilization. But so far we are concerned, not only we, everyone, the human life is only meant for spiritual purpose. Not for material purpose.



In the previous verse Prahlāda Mahārāja has said:

'tato yateta kuśalaḥ

kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ

śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan

na vipadyeta puṣkalam



And before that he said:



*tat*-prayāso na kartavyo

*yata āyur*-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ

*mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam



*People are so ignorant that they cannot understand what is the importance of this valuable human form of life. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction from the very beginning: durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy arthadam adhruvam. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatan iha durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ [SB 7.6.1]. Just like these small children, they are being trained up in this bhāgavata*-dharma, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Bhāgavata-dharma means hearing, chanting of the Supreme, glories of the Supreme Lord. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Not for others. If somebody says, "Yes, I am hearing always in the telephone. I am doing business." No, not that kind of hearing. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. If you can contact Viṣṇu or His devotee, Vaiṣṇava, that is all right. Otherwise, you are simply wasting time. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. Always, constantly thinking of Him. These are the bhakti ways. There are nine different processes prescribed in the śāstra: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam arcanam... [SB 7.5.23]. This is arcanam, worshiping the Deity in the temple, this is called arcanam. The Lord is called arca-vigrahaḥ, arca-avatāra. He is also incarnation. Another incarnation, arca-avatāra. He's giving facility to the devotees to handle Him. If you do not get the opportunity to serve the Lord, how you can be perfect? So this arca-vigrahaḥ is Lord's incarnation to give facilities to people like us who cannot see God everywhere. For the neophyte devotees, it is essential to worship the Deity. But if we simply worship the Deity without hearing about the Lord, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam-these things are essential-then the Deity worship will be a burden. At a certain point, it will be a burden, and gradually it will be neglected, and the whole thing will be spoiled. So both things should continue: bhāgavata-mārga and pañcarātriki-mārga. Deity worship is pāñcarātriki-vidhi, and bhāgavata-mārga is hearing, chanting, like that. Both of them should be accepted, parallel line. Otherwise, one without the other will be later on troublesome. So you must continue. This temple means not only we shall decorate the Deity very nicely, cleanse the temple:



*sri*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-

*śṛṅgāra*-tan mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi... **



So the temple worship should go on, at the same time, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam of Viṣṇu must go on. Two things, parallel. Then it will be done very nicely.



*So actually this life is meant for this purpose. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. There is no other purpose. All other activities secondary. So those who are very much advanced in spiritual life, just like the brāhmaṇas, the sannyāsīs, they did not bother about what to eat, where to sleep. Sex life is completely forgotten. Even what to eat, where to sleep, there is no such consideration. Simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is only business. Of course, we cannot do that in the neophyte stage, but actually that is the only purpose. Unfortunately, the modern civilization has discovered so many artificial ways of life that it is very, very difficult to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness business. So therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that simply for sense gratification, if we waste our time, that is not good. Tat prayāso na kartavyo*-don't waste your time for increasing the scope of sense gratification. That is not at all required. Tat-prāyaso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Āyur means duration of life. Simply wasted. Vyayaḥ, vyayaḥ means expanded or wasted. Param. This duration of life, human form of life is param. Param means the supreme. Not like cats and dogs. Their āyuḥ, they also live for some time, we also live, but their life is useless. They cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. But we human beings, if we are trained up we can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *therefore it is called param. Everything is param. Just like anna. Anna means ordinary rice. And paramānna, paramānna means the first*-class, sweet rice, cooked with milk. You have got good experience. (laughter) So similarly, āyuḥ, the ant has got āyuḥ, the worm has got āyuḥ, the cat has got an āyuḥ, some duration of life. But so far the human being is concerned, that is param āyuḥ. Param āyuḥ. So if we waste our time simply for sense gratification, then we waste our valuable life.

Prahlāda Mahārāja advises:

*tat*-prayāso na kartavyo

*yata āyur*-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemam...



*We are acting, working for some good achievement. So our achievement, means the human form of achievement is mukunda*-caraṇāmbujam. Mukunda means Kṛṣṇa. How to get shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is the supreme achievement. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advises, tato yateta kuśalaḥ kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ. Those who are fallen in this material world, somehow or other... It is not our place. This is a rotten place, but somehow or other we have fallen. Bhavam āśritaḥ, we have, instead of taking shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, we have taken shelter of this material world. Therefore it is called bhavam āśritaḥ. For them it is imperative that śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan na vipadyeta puṣkalam. So long we are young, very strong body, senses are working nicely, this opportunity should be utilized for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore a calculation is there. One may think, "Yes, that's all right, but I'll live at least one hundred years. So let me enjoy now sense, and later on we shall see the business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness." No. Prahlāda Mahārāja is warning: Yes, you have maximum. But nobody now is living hundred years. Everyone knows. This is the symptom of Kali-yuga, that:



prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ (sabhya)

kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ

*mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo

*manda*-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ

[SB 1.1.10]



*It is the symptom of this age, Kali*-yuga, is that we are not living the full term of our life, hundred years. We are not living... (aside:) You can go to the wall side. So, anyway, supposing we shall live one hundred years: puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyus tad-ardhaṁ cājitātmanaḥ [SB 7.6.6]. Ajitātmanaḥ, ajita means not conquered. One who has not been able to conquer over the sense activities, for them, it is not, even if he lives for one hundred, fifty years immediately minus in sleeping. In our temple in New York, in the beginning when I was having classes in the morning at seven o'clock, still people from here and there they would come and protest and go to the police because we were disturbing their sleep. Yes. They want to sleep as much possible hours. I think that is very great gain in the Western country, to sleep. So to sleep means simply waste of time. You must know it. Either I sleep five hours, six hours, ten hours, twelve hours, it is simply waste of time. The valuable life which you have got, immediately so many hours minus. Sleep is not good. Sleep, if we can do without sleep, that is perfection. Not that "Let me enjoy sleep twelve hours, fourteen hours, whole life." No. That is waste of time:



nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ

vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ

diva cārthehayā rājan

*kuṭumba*-bharaṇena vā

[SB 2.1.3]



*The materialistic way of life means nidrayā hriyate naktam. At night either sleep or enjoy sex. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca... [SB 2.1.3]. Vyavāyena means sex. And in daytime? Diva cārthehayā rājan. In daytime, "Where is money, where is money, where is money?" Go, take your car and run. So diva cārthehayā rājan, and when you get money, kuṭumba*-bharaṇena vā. Then find out, purchase something for my wife, for my children, for myself, spend the money. Again night comes, again sleep, again sex. Again day comes, all right, go to market, earn money and spend it. This is going on. This is called material life.



*So it is very difficult to convince the people of the modern days how they are wasting their time, how they are risking their life by this way of irresponsible life of material existence. They are thinking that "The more I enjoy sex, the more I enjoy sleeping, that is perfect. That is my profit." And to convince them, "No, it is simply loss, you are simply risking your life," it is very difficult. But this is the fact. This is the fact, in this way, because in this duration of life, human, if I do not make my life perfect, stop the materialistic miserable condition, namely janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]-birth, death, old age and disease-then I am missing the opportunity. Next life will be given by the laws of nature. Just like you are in the forest, you see so many trees are standing. You do not know how many years they will stand. Yes. It is possible. If I have acted just like a tree, nonsense, no-sense... Just like tree has no sense. If you cut it, he does not reply. Because practically it has lost the senses. There is some senses, consciousness, but it is not developed. It is not developed. The animal, little more developed. The human, fully developed. This is with all the consciousness, stages of different consciousness. And when we come to the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this is perfect. Otherwise, in the lower grade. So if we neglect in this life, human form of life, to develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is chance to become an animal, to become a tree.

*So people do not know this, how this science is working, but this is the fact. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. So we have to read all these things very carefully. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, there is dehāntara, another body. So we must be very careful what kind of body I'm going to get. Now, this life I have got very nice, beautiful body and everything is all right, but if we act irresponsibly, the nature will give me a suitable body. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties of life, 8,400,000? So we should be very, very careful not to waste the duration of life even by a second. We shall eat less, then we shall sleep also less. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi: then our sex appetite also will be less. Unnecessarily eating, unnecessarily sleeping is not required at all. That is the practice by the Gosvāmīs. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. They conquered over eating, sleeping. Mating, there was no question: they were sannyāsīs, renounced order of life. And defense also, there was no question because they depended on Kṛṣṇa, the most powerful defender. So there was no question of defense. Simply two things, eating and sleeping. And that they also conquered. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau. So spiritual life means you have to control. That is called gosvāmī. One who has control over the senses, one who has control over eating, you'll find this instruction in the Nectar of Instruction: jihvā-vegam udaropastha-vegam manaso vegam etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt [No I 1]. Guru should be... Guru means one who has control over the six engagements. Manaḥ, to control the urge of the mind. The mind wants to do this. "No, if it is not profitable, don't do this." Then control over the mind. Control over the senses, control the words. I am angry, I want to abuse somebody with some ill names. "No, why shall I..." Control of the... Talking unnecessary useless talk, that is control over the tongue. Vāco vegam. Krodha-vegam: "I am just going to be very angry upon you." No, we have to control. In this way when one is able to control over these things, especially jihvā-vegam udaro-vegam upastha-vegam, straight line*-the urge of the tongue, the urge of the belly and the urge of the genital-then we become svāmīs, gosvāmīs. Artificially, it is not to be suppressed. Nidrāhāra-vegam, these are material things.

*So to control over the material urges, that is required in spiritual... We have to come to the spiritual platform. That is called tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam [SB 5.5.1]. We are searching after happiness, but in the material world you cannot have happiness. That is a fact. Whatever little happiness you get, that is also distress. One has to attain to that stage of happiness with(out) distress. So that is a long history; *everyone knows that happiness is not possible. But we arrange to get so*-called... Happiness means sense gratification. That is not happiness. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad ātindriya grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. Directly sense perception is not happiness. These things are in the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam. Ātindriyam means beyond these material senses, transcendental, there is another happiness. That is transcendental bliss. That we perceive little bit while we are chanting. By chanting, chanting, chanting, when you'll be purified, then you will have the opportunity of tasting that transcendental bliss. Otherwise, the so-called happiness derived from the senses, that is not happiness. That is crude, that is for the fools and rascals. That is not happiness.

*So we should utilize our time very carefully. Puṁso varṣa-śatam... Because here is the calculation that although, supposing that I shall live for one hundred years, puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyus tad*-ardhaṁ cājitātmanaḥ [SB 7.6.6]. Immediately, those who are not controlling the senses, ordinary, they are immediately at least half minus, fifty years gone for sleeping. And then niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ. So in this way, if you are actually serious... It is not that we are imposing something. We must be serious about the Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, that simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa or simply being Kṛṣṇa conscious, we become liberated:

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



You have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Take it a little more seriously and practice, follow the rules and regulations, chant regularly, then your life will be successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



680623SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.6-9

-

Montreal, June 23, 1968



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalacaraṇa) So Prahlāda Mahārāja's proposal is that kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. Intelligent Who is intelligent? He should begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness from childhood. Not that we have to wait. And he is presenting an analytical study of the whole life, that unless we begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness from childhood, hardly there will be opportunity to practice this transcendental method. Because in the beginning he has said that this life, human form of life, is very rare. The present educational system, they do not know it, that how important this human form of life is and how it has to be utilized. So that is being explained.



So he is analyzing the whole life, that puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyuḥ [SB 7.6.6]. Accepting that we have got one hundred years of life, but we have to waste half of it, fifty years, by sleeping at night. So immediately fifty years minus. Niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ. When we sleep, we have no activity. We cannot make any advance, any department of knowledge. Sometimes we sleep more by intoxicating habit. So niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ. The whole night is wasted because we cannot produce anything. There are two kinds of production: material production and spiritual production. Arthadam. Artha means factual profit. So there are two kinds of profit. Those who are materialists, they calculate profit by dollars, and those who are spiritualists, they calculate profit: "How much I have advanced today in spiritual or Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Both of them are profits. So either make this profit or that profit, but don't waste your time. That is the proposal. But the best profit is, for human form of life, to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he has analyzed that mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīdato yāti vimśatiḥ [SB 7.6.7]. So fifty years immediately minus from our life. Then, by playing in youthhood and childhood, another twenty years. Seventy years minus. Then jarayā grasta dehasya yāty akalpasya vimśatiḥ. Then, when old age comes, by disease, by invalidity, another twenty years minus. That means fifty plus twenty plus twenty. Out of hundred years, ninety years gone. Then,

durāpureṇa kāmena

mohena ca balīyasā

śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya

pramattasyāpayāti hi

[SB 7.6.8]



The balance ten years, because the whole life we have spoiled in material activities, in the balance, ten years are wasted: "What I have done, and how to pull on? Oh, this was not successful. How I have to make successful? This boy was not educated. That boy was not properly brought up. He has gone out home...," so many anxieties. That means if we do not practice from childhood, then in the advanced age it is not possible. That is the proposal of Prahlāda Mahārāja.



There is a proverb in Bengali that kañcaya noyale bhas pas korbe nyastas (?). Bhas means bamboo. Bamboo, while it is green, you can bend it, but when its yellow or dry, oh, it cannot be bent. It will break. It will be break. Therefore school children... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja is instructing his class fellows. School children, from five years old, they should be given lesson about Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. Otherwise, in advanced age, oh, it is not possible. Generally, we find in our class or in this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, the youngsters, they become little more interested, but we don't find any old men. Why? Because whatever they have been taught, they cannot forget. It is very difficult to forget what he has been already taught. So they do not become interested.

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam

ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ

*sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair (baddham)

utsaheta vimocitum

[SB 7.6.9]



*"One who has passed his life simply being attached to household affairs, sneha*-pāśair, and when the affection of household life is too strong, it is very difficult to get out of it." That will be very nicely explained, one after another.



*Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory get*-out from household life. Compulsory get-out means pañcāś ordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Pañcāś means fifty years. "As soon as one passes over fifty years of age, he should get out." That is the injunction of the scriptures. No more in household affairs. The life is divided into four parts, four divisions. First of all brahmacārī. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching. Brahmacārī, a boy from five years old is taught, and up to twenty-five years. And if he is not... Of course, he is properly taught, but if he is not properly convinced that "Worldly life is botheration. Better remain brahmacārī for throughout the whole life..." There are many brahmacārīs in India still, naistika-brahmacārī. They are called naistika-brahmacārī. That means they had never any experience of sex. They are called naistika-brahmacārī. Just like my Guru Mahārāja was naistika-brahmacārī. He never married. So boys are taught like that, the inefficiency of this family life, encumbrances, because the aim is to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So we have to minimize our bodily necessities of life and we have to expand the spiritual necessities of life. That is the perfect way of civilization. In the modern age, the more we can increase the demands of artificial demands of the body, it is called civilization. And when one is engaged, minimizing the demands of the body and utilize the valuable time for advancing in spiritual consciousness, they are accepted as uncivilized or not advanced, in so many words. But actually, India's civilization was based on this principle. We can find in the history of old days that they knew everything. From the books we can understand they had advanced knowledge for material civilization. Because we find description of aeroplanes, description of television. But they were used very, I mean to say, only limited circle, not that extensively. Because the whole process of civilization was to divert your attention too much for material advancement, but whatever little span of life you have got, just utilize it for spiritual advancement and get out of this material entanglement. That is the basic principle of civilization. Therefore the social life, human society, was divided into eight divisions. They are called varṇa and āśrama. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, you will find, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Four divisions of society, for spiritual advancement and for material advancement both. For spiritual advancement, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa.

*So first twenty years, twenty*-five years, or twenty years, because education begins from five years... Up to five years the child is given full liberty-whatever he likes, he may do. Lālayet pañca-varṣāṇi. It is said that you can give liberty to the child only for five years. And tadayet daśa-varṣāṇi. And as soon as he is on the fifth year, you must be very strict on the child, on the boy, so that he may not be spoiled. Very strict. Simply engage him in proper education. Tāḍayet daśa varṣāṇi. And prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varse. And as soon as he is on the sixteenth year... Ṣoḍaśe means sixteenth year. Prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe putraṁ mitravad ācaret: the son, the boy should be treated as friend. No more punishment. Then there will be reply. So there must be restraint. So from sixteenth year to twenty-fifth year, higher education. And after higher education, if the boy is still after sense gratification, he should be allowed to get himself married and enter into family life. That family life is allowed for another twenty-five years. When youthhood is very strong, let him beget some children and... Of course, there is regulation of children. One has to take care of the children and he has to educate children, not that irresponsibly begetting children. No. So family life.

*Then as soon as he reaches fiftieth years or little advanced, when he might have a grown-up child at home, then the father and mother leaves home. Pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. The gentleman, when the boy is grown up, he may get his boy married and get out of home. The wife may remain with him as friend, but there is no sex life. That is called vānaprastha. Vānaprastha means retired life. And that is also another training. First training is brahmacārī so that when he becomes householder, he lives very restrained and regulated life. And then, after satisfying his senses, when he is grown up to fiftieth year, he is advised to get out: "No more sense gratification. Now you prepare yourself for the remaining days of your life for spiritual culture." That is called vānaprastha. So vānaprastha means retired life and training for completely renouncing this worldly life. And when he is prepared, the wife is asked to go back home. The grown-up boys will take charge of her. The woman is always protected. In childhood she is protected by the father, in youthhood she is protected by the husband, and in old age she is protected by the grown-up boy. That is the system. She is never given independence. In the Manu-saṁhitā it is stated, na striyaṁ svatantratam arhati: "Woman should never be given independence." That is good for her, yes. Just like a child should not be given independence-then he will be spoiled-similarly woman also should not be given independence. That is the injunction of Manu-saṁhitā. They should be always given protection. The child, woman, brāhmaṇa, the cow, and the old man*-they should be given proper protection. That is the injunction.

*Anyway, the vānaprastha, when the gentleman is completely educated for renouncing this world, then he sends back the wife to grown*-up boys and he takes sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa dress. This is preparing, not... Preparing is finished. Sannyāsa means he should distribute spiritual knowledge from door to door. That is his business. He has no family attraction, he has nothing to think for his maintenance, because the society is advised to take care of brahmacārī, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Just see. This is spiritual communism. One section of people, the householders, they have to maintain the three other divisions. We have divided the society into four divisions: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Only the gṛhasthas are allowed to make money, to earn money. But the brahmacārī and the vānaprastha and sannyāsī is to live at the cost the gṛhasthas. Brahmacaris shall go from door to door and beg alms and bring it for the spiritual master. The spiritual master is a sannyāsī. So whatever the brahmacārīs bring, they cook and they eat and they cultivate spiritual Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the system. That means it is the duty of the gṛhasthas, or the householder, to maintain the other three section of the people. And that is varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ.

*Now, in another place you will find in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam that the perfection of varṇāśrama, these four divisions as we have stated... And in the gṛhastha there are still four divisions. That divisions are brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. Those who are doing intellectual works, just like studying philosophy, science, astronomy, so many intellectual works, they are called brāhmaṇas. And those who are in the administration class, they are called kṣatriyas. Those who are in production, mercantile industry for producing things, they are called vaiśyas. And those who are laborer class, they are called śūdras. So these eight divisions. And that is known as varṇāśrama-dharma, the institution of eight divisions. The Hindus means those who follow these eight divisions of human society. That is called Hindu. Now it has become a name only, but actually this is... Actually this is Hindu religion..., this is not Hindu religion. This is actually the occupation or the basic principle of human civilization. If you do not divide human society in such eight divisions, there is no proper advancement of human society's ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to make perfect in this life or to realize the Absolute Truth. That is ultimate goal. In other place the Bhāgavata says... The ultimate goal, they do not know. Not nowadays... In all the days there are a class of men who are called demons, and here Prahlāda Mahārāja instructing to the children of the demons, those who have no idea of what is the ultimate aim of life. They are called demons. The Aryans and the demons, sura and asura. Aryan means those who are advancing. And those who are static, not advancing... Static means limited with the animal propensities of life, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is animal propensities of life. And when there is question of spiritual advancement, that is called human society. Because the spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, cannot be injected in the animal society. So na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi visnum: [SB 7.5.31] they do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. The ultimate goal of life is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to understand God, to understand oneself, "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship with God." This is human civilization. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is trying to instruct his class fellows like this.

*So he says that unless you practice from childhood, when you will be grown*-up, then you will be encumbered with so many things that there will be practically no possibility. And this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, is recommended in this age because that classification of eight divisions of human society is gone. And it is not possible to introduce it again. I am not speaking that it cannot be introduced in this country or that country. Even where it was being practiced, in India, there also it is gone. There also it is in the name only, that which you have understood... You have perhaps heard, "the caste system." The... Instead of accepting the scientific divisions of the human society, they have misused it in the form of caste system. Just like a person, a gentleman born in the family of a brāhmaṇa, he is brāhmaṇa. But originally the idea was different. The original idea is: in the society those who are intellectuals, those who are engaged in intellectual work, they are called brāhmaṇas. To understand Brahman, to understand the situation of this world, they understand spiritual knowledge. Those who are engaged in such cultivation of knowledge, they were called brāhmaṇa. But at the present moment anyone who is born in the family of a brāhmaṇa, he is called a brāhmaṇa. But actually he may be a cobbler. But that is not the idea.

*So these eight divisions of human society, scientific division of human society, is now lost. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed that kalau, "In this age," nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā, "there is no other alternative for advancement of human society's goal of life." Because human society is meant for advancing in the goal of life, and that goal of life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says... That is the sublime gift of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī adored Him, namo mahā*-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "My dear Lord, You are the most munificent, magnanimous incarnation, because You are distributing love of Kṛṣṇa." This is very rare thing, love of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa personally failed. He canvassed, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up everything. Just surrender unto Me, Kṛṣṇa, personally." But nobody surrendered; *only a few persons of the Pāṇḍavas, Arjuna, Bhīma, or the gopīs in Vṛndāvana. But at that time there were others. And later age, people misunderstood Him. But the idea is that Kṛṣṇa also came to distribute love of Kṛṣṇa, but He actually could not induce people to this cult. They misunderstood Him. But Lord Caitanya, by His grace, by this saṅkīrtana movement, He very easily distributed this love of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is called namo mahā*-vadānyāya: "My dear Lord, You are the most magnificent, munificent personality, incarnation, because," kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53], "You are distributing kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, the most important thing, the goal of life." And that was the mission of Lord Caitanya. He said, kalau, in this age, when everything has become topsy-turvied, there is no more chance for systematizing the whole human society. It is lost. The regulating processes are lost now, and neither it is possible to reintroduce it. It is not possible. People have become so much degraded that it is not possible. Therefore direct method. Direct method: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will revive your old consciousness. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā: "In this age there is no other alternative, there is no other alternative." The so-called meditation, yoga or karma, jñāna, mental speculation-everything will fail. They are, of course, standard processes, but that is not possible to execute in the present age. What is to speak of present age, even five thousand years ago, when Arjuna was taught to learn yoga system... That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, the practice of yoga, the sitting posture, the breathing exercise, and controlling the senses and regulating eating, sleeping. So many things, they are recommended. And after hearing, Arjuna said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me." Actually, Arjuna was a fighter, a military man. Where is his time to practice this meditation, all these things? He frankly admitted. But we are so proud that we want to surpass even a personality like Arjuna.

So these things are not possible in this age. If somebody is imitating, that is simply imitation. So imitation has no value. The real thing is this meditation: you chant and hear. This meditation. Meditation means to absorb your mind in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is meditation, real meditation. In all the standard scriptures and in yoga practice formula, the whole aim is to concentrate one's mind in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called samādhi, samādhi, ecstasy. So that ecstasy is immediately brought by this chanting process. You begin chanting and hear for the few seconds or few minutes: you immediately become on the platform of ecstasy. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended this process not only for India but for all the people of the world. He said that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. Pṛthivī means "on the face of the world"; *ache, "when there is." Nagar means "towns," and grāma means "village" or "county." So He said, "As many villages, towns, or counties, the human society, there are on the surface of the globe," sarvatra pracāra haibe more nāma, "My name"*-means Lord Caitanya's name, because He introduced the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa-"will be celebrated." That is His prediction.

*So we can see practically also that somehow or other, in your country this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is introduced practically only for one year, but it is being popularized. People are taking it very seriously. Even some places where I never visited, they are organizing centers. I have received information from Buffalo, from Atlantic City. One little boy, Terry, he is organizing. He has invited some of our brahmacārīs to go there. And I have received letter from Germany, from Holland. They also have begun chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In England, the Britain, the Beatles, they are also chanting. So this is getting popular in the Western countries, and it will get, I am sure. So this chanting process introduced by Lord Caitanya should be seriously taken up so that our aim of human life will be successful. We have forgotten. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. We have forgotten... The modern civilization has... In your country I was reading a little history that in 1813 or some year the government introduced that "We trust in God," "Trust in God," and that was declared by the secretary to be published on the coins or on the paper currency, and we see sometimes. But simply trust in God is not sufficient. We must know what is God. Trusting something oblivion, something fantasy, that is no trust. You must know where to put your trust. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You have to know this, what is God. You simply believe in God... Faith in God is very nice. That is said then the... Very nice. It is better than godless person, that one who believes in God. That is all right. So this writing, that "We trust in God," it is very good. It is better than the communist countries, who say, "We do not trust in God." It is better. But simply official writing or trust will not do. We have to understand. And if you want to understand God, then this is the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other alternative. You cannot place any other scripture collected from the world where the science of God is so elaborately stated, which you can test with all reason and argument. That is Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we have to learn the science. As you are learning so many department of knowledge, similarly, this is also another department of knowledge, to learn the science of God. The government should come forward to popularize this movement and to educate people in the science of God.

*So in the Bhāgavata it is said, jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam: "The science of God is, or the knowledge of God, iw most scientific." Jñānaṁ me para... "And it is very confidential." Jñānam means knowledge, and me, the Supreme Personality says, "Knowledge about Me is very confidential." And yad vijñāna-samanvitam: "And it is most scientific." Science of God is not sentiment. It is science. It is... Actually it is science, the science of sciences. Every science takes his, what is called, data, from this science. Just the material science begins from the sunshine, but the sunshine is based on this science, God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Philosophy, any philosophy, er, any science you take, you have to accept some axiomatic truth. Then you go on. But wherefrom the axiomatic truth? Science is discovering some subtle laws of the nature, but who made that law? As soon as you say that "Here is a law which is being carried very nicely," there must be a lawmaker. You have to accept it. The science of astronomy, the planets, the stars, the sun, the moon moving in their orbit very nicely, very perfectly, and accurately-there is law. This is law of nature. You might have discovered-you are great scientist*-that under this law, the law of gravitation or this law, that law, so many laws there are. But the background you have to inquire, "Who is the law-maker?" Unless there is law-maker, how there can be law? Take for example your state laws. As soon as you say that this is law, "Keep to the right," you have to accept there is a law-maker under whose direction this law is being carried out nicely. If you don't carry out, then you are punished. Similarly, nature's law is not ultimate. There is law-maker, and that law-maker is God. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Prakṛti," means nature, "is working under My superintendence, under My superintendence." How you can deny? If there is nature's law, who made this law? You see that the clock is running very nicely, the machine is going on, but that is not the ultimate. There is a maker of the clock or watch. Without understanding the maker, simply if you understand the clock only, that is not sufficient knowledge.

*So these things are very nicely explained in Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and we are trying to explain the science of God or knowledge. If you like, you can take, and we are sure that your life will be successful. This chanting and combined with this hearing of this Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will advance you in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. And as Prahlāda Mahārāja is instructing his class fellows that this is to be learned from the beginning of your life, but if you have missed the opportunity, but it is better late than never. Here is a process introduced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We can accept it immediately even though it is late.

Thank you very much. Any questions?

Guest (1): Was Kṛṣṇa born, and if so, where?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa was born, but you have to know how Kṛṣṇa is born. That is your intelligence. Just like sun is born every morning. There is no sun now, but in the morning we will see sun and from the eastern side. So do you think that eastern side is the mother of sun? Because sun is born from the eastern side, you can take it for granted that eastern side is the mother of sun. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa appears in similar way, but that does not mean that He is born. That is stated in the Fourth Chapter, Bhagavad-gītā: janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "Anyone who understands in truth how I take My birth, how I work, how I am transcendental..." Simply by knowing these three things-how Kṛṣṇa is born, and how does He work and what is His actual position*-the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: [Bg. 4.9] "My dear Arjuna, simply knowing these three things, one comes to Me after quitting this material body." Punar janma naiti: "He never again comes back to..." That means, in other words, if you can understand the birth of Kṛṣṇa, then you will stop your any more birth. You will be free from this birth and death. So try to understand how Kṛṣṇa takes His birth. Simply by understanding this... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If you can understand how Kṛṣṇa takes his birth, then your birth and death problem is solved. How becomes liberated. So birth of Kṛṣṇa has to be understood. And who can understand? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many thousands of men"-sahasra means thousands; thousands, many thousands, means many hundreds of thousands men-"one is interested for spiritual advancement of life." Kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhaye means "perfection." Not all men are interested. "What is perfection, nonsense? Let us eat, drink, be merry, enjoy. Don't care for perfection. This is perfection. We are eating, sleeping, mating, that's all. Who knows what is going to be happened after death? Who can..." They don't care. This is the position of general population. So out of that rascal population, one may be intelligent enough, "What is the aim of life? What I am? Why I am suffering? Why suffering is imposed upon me? I want to be happy. Why happiness is not there? Why it is simply temporary?" So many things, questions. So these question arises in the mind of a person out of many thousands of men. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhaye means one who is trying to reach to the point of perfection; *not perfection, but simply trying. And yatatām api siddhānām: [Bg. 7.3] "And out of many thousands of such persons who are trying to approach the Absolute Truth," kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, "one can understand Me as I am." Therefore one who can understand Kṛṣṇa, His birth, His appearance, His disappearance, His activities, all these things... That is also confirmed in another place, tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā: "Thus one understanding Me in truth," viśate tad*-anantaram, "he is allowed to enter into My kingdom." Yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: "Only by devotional service one can understand Me, actually what I am." So if we engage ourself in submissive way in the devotional service of Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will let you know what is His birth, what is His appearance, disappearance, activities-everything revealed. These things are not to be understood by mental speculation. These things are revealed to a heart of a devotee when he is engaged in devotional service. So that is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As you make more advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you understand everything. Any other question?



Guest (2): Chanting is devotional service?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotional service are discharged in nine different ways: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], to hear about the Lord from proper source, and kīrtanam, and to glorify the Lord; smaraṇam, meditating upon the Lord; *pāda*-sevanam, to engage oneself in the service; arcanam, worshiping; prayer... There are nine different ways of devotional services. So you can accept nine all together or eight or seven or six or five or four or three or two. So even you accept one, you will advance. If you simply come here and hear this chanting, your devotional service will be perfected one day. So although there are nine different processes, but if you can accept even one, you will be advanced in devotional service. Yes?



Devotee (1): What is the relationship between Lord Kṛṣṇa and Lord Jesus Christ?



Prabhupāda: Oh, that you know. What do you ask me? What is Lord Jesus Christ? Don't you know?



Devotee (1): The son of God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore relationship is father and son. But there is no difference between father and son. Both of them are authorized. Just like your father, and if you are a trustworthy son of your father, then the work done by your father and by you is the same.



Devotee (2): Swamijī, Kṛṣṇa being the cause of all causes, how can (we) use our individuality if we are always under His direction?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Devotee (2): If we are always under Kṛṣṇa's direction, how is it we can use our individuality?



Prabhupāda: That is individuality, that even under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, you can use your individuality. Don't you do that? Your father says, "My dear boy, do this." You say, "No, I don't do this." That is your individuality. Otherwise what is the meaning of individuality? Individuality means if I like, I can accept; if I don't like, I do not accept. That is individuality. If I am forced to do something, that is not my individuality.



Janārdana: We are marginal energy.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Marginal energy is that, that by your individuality you can abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa, and if you like, you do not abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. That is your choice. That is practical everywhere. The father and son*-the son may obey the father, and the son may disobey also. That is the choice of the son. That is given there, that every individual living entity has got this minute quantity of independence. And as soon as we misuse this minute quantity of independence we are in the hands of māyā. Just like in every country... You are American. You are considered to be independent. But that does not mean that you are absolutely independent, you can do whatever you like. But you have got the right to do whatever you like. But as soon as you misuse your independence, you are in danger, although you belong to the independent nation. So there is possibility of misusing the independence at every moment. Therefore we have to continue Kṛṣṇa consciousness so this possibility of misusing the independence will no longer live. All right.



Guest (3): Swami, one more question. If you have misused the energy of the past and go on with the results of your misuse, are you still responsible for those forms?



*Prabhupāda: As you had misused your independence in your past life or in past, similarly, you can immediately, properly use your independence. Do you follow? You... Somehow or other, you misused your independence. Similarly, immediately, if you use your independence properly, then the result of that misuse of independence is corrected. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Because the conditioned souls here in this material world, they have all misused their independence... Anyone, beginning from the highest planet down, beginning from Brahmā down to the small ant, everyone has misused his independence. This conditional life, this material body, is due to that. Therefore our reactions of that misuse is going on life after life. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that "If you surrender immediately, then I take charge of you." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just give up all your other engagements. Just surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "I shall give you protection from all reaction of your misuse of independence."



Guest (4): The false wrong(?) is that he is misled by material consciousness execute the things, really.(?) If he is misled by other, by circumstances, this is... He has no fault of his own.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but innocence is no excuse of law. If you say that "Somebody misled me to go to the left side" in the court, oh, that does not mean that you will be saved from the fine. So you have to become such intelligent person that you may not be misled by others. You have got the intelligence. Why should you be misled? Then what is the meaning of this human form of life? And you have to be educated. You have to take the opportunity of education so that you may not be misled. Why do you agree to be misled? Then you must agree to take the punishment also. If you, by innocence, put your hand on the fire, so fire will not excuse you. So innocence is no excuse. You have to be learned. Therefore we are here to give proper education to the people. Yes?



Guest (5): Is not Kṛṣṇa a God of compassion?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotee (6): Is Kṛṣṇa not a God of compassion?



Prabhupāda: Oh, who can be more than, compassion, than Him? He is canvassing you, "My dear boy, please come to Me. I will give you all protection. Why you are suffering here?" Can you find out any person more compassionate than Kṛṣṇa? He is the most compassionate.



Guest (7): Cannot, then, Kṛṣṇa understand that...?



Prabhupāda: First, the only thing is that we are misusing our independence. That's all.



Guest (7): Do we ever personally contact Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is always with you. He is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is situated in everyone's heart." In your heart, in my heart, everyone's heart.



Guest (7): How do you reach there?



*Prabhupāda: That requires practice. Kṛṣṇa is always with you. In this explanation of Prahlāda Mahārāja we shall come to that point. Kṛṣṇa is not without you. Aṇḍāntarasthaṁ paramāṇu*-cayāntarastham. Kṛṣṇa is even within the atom. That is realization. One has to realize, and one has to talk with Kṛṣṇa. So that means he has to qualify himself. Just like in your body there are so many things-do you know everything? Do you know everything? Then? Do you know? You are eating, and how it is being transformed into blood? Can you see it? Then it requires knowledge. Similarly, by knowledge you will understand that Kṛṣṇa is with you. That is the mistake of this modern civilization. Everyone thinks, "I know everything. I don't require any authority to understand anything." But the Vedic literature, the Vedic civilization, they direct, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "If you want to understand that science, you must approach a bona fide spiritual master." This is very simple thing. If you want to learn engineering, then you must admit yourself in engineering college. If you want to be a medical man, you must admit yourself in a medical college. Similarly, if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you must approach a person who knows Kṛṣṇa. It is not fanaticism or mental speculation. You have to learn the art scientifically. (starts playing karatālas and someone starts playing a melody on harmonium) What is that? Begin Hare Kṛṣṇa. (changes to Hare Kṛṣṇa melody on harmonium-kīrtana) (end)





751209SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.7

-

Vṛndāvana, December 9, 1975



Harikeśa: Translation: "In tender childhood age, when everyone is bewildered, he passes ten years. Similarly, in boyhood, being engaged in sporting and playful things, another ten years. In this way twenty years are wasted. Similarly, in old age, when a person becomes invalid and he is unable to execute even material activities, he passes another twenty years wastefully."



Prabhupāda:



mugdhasya bālye kaiśore

krīḍato yāti viṁśatiḥ

*jarayā grasta*-dehasya

yāty akalpasya viṁśatiḥ

[SB 7.6.7]



So fifty years out of one hundred years, fifty years wasted by sleeping. And then balance fifty years, twenty years in childhood and youthhood, sporting, playing; *another twenty years in old age... Jarayā grasta. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. These are inevitable. As birth is inevitable, death is inevitable, similarly, old age is inevitable. So in this way our time is wasted because we do not know how valuable this human form of life is. There is no such education. They think human life is as cheap as dog's life, but factually it is not. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. One gets this human form of life, 8,400,000 species of life, especially advanced life, the Aryan civilization... Aryan means advanced, advanced in spiritual knowledge. The materialists, they claim Aryan only from the bodily conception, but that is not the fact. Anyone who is advanced in spiritual life, they are called Aryans. Anārya-juṣṭam. Arjuna was chastised by Kṛṣṇa that "You are talking like non-Aryan." Anārya-juṣṭam. So non-Aryan and Aryan, what is the difference? The Aryan civilization means this varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśramas. And non-Aryan means there is no division. Everyone is one or equal. That is advocated now at the present moment. In India also, they think of casteless society, no caste. But it is not caste. It is division of culture. Brāhmaṇa means advanced in culture, kṣatriya means less advanced than the brāhmaṇa, and vaiśya means less advanced, and śūdra is less advanced, and the pañcamas, fifth grade, sixth grade, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ [SB 2.4.18], they are less. In this way high grade and low grade division of the society, one who follows the high grade culture, they are called Aryans, Arya. In many places in Vedic literature the superior person is addressed as Arya.



*So without being culturally advanced, they do not know the value of life. They waste their life. The advanced persons, they try to reduce waste of time. We have already discussed that the Gosvāmīs, they were ministers. They came to Vṛndāvana not for begging but for advancing the spiritual culture of life. Vṛndāvana is not meant for making a solution of the economic condition. One who has no, nothing to eat outside, they should come and beg capati and roti from door to door. The Rūpa Gosvāmī did it, mādhukarī. Rūpa Gosvāmī used to beg. Not beg, collecting twenty capatis. And only one or two, that's all. Not to collect the capatis and sell it in the market and get some money and purchase bidi. This is not Rūpa Gosvāmī. And just to have a loin cloth, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī, and having so many illicit connections, this is spoiling. Rūpa Gosvāmī came on the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to rejuvenate, re*-excavate this land of Vṛndāvana. And they were engaged in the service of Lord Caitanya for preaching work. Whatever we are preaching now, it is based on the principles laid down by the Gosvāmīs. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, rūpa-raghunātha-pade, haibe ākuti, kabe hāma bujhabo śrī-yugala-pīriti. The loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, that is not ordinary material things as we conceive. Generally people are very much interested in painting picture of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's love. These pictures are very popular because they think, "Kṛṣṇa is like us. He is after young girls. So He's a great support for us. We are also after young girls, so Kṛṣṇa has done. So we are doing that." So Kṛṣṇa affairs-different. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says,

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade, haibe ākuti,

*kabe hāma bujhabo śrī*-yugala-pīriti



It is not so easy to understand the loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. It is meant for the most advanced spiritually. That is not ordinary thing. Not only the loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, but everything... They are not material. They are all spiritual. It has nothing to do.



*So how it is spiritual, that we have to understand through the teachings of Rūpa Gosvāmī, Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion. Without reading all these books, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Bhagavad-gītā, if we jump over Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, that is not good, and therefore it is not effective. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau... The Gosvāmīs... You'll find in The Nectar of Devotion. So many Vedic literatures are quoted. So that is required, śāstra-vidhi. Then we'll be fixed up. Vidhi-bhakti is very important, then rāga-bhakti, then prema-bhakti. So we should not imitate prema-bhakti without going through vidhi-bhakti. This is vidhi-bhakti. Just like we rise early in the morning, perform maṅgala-ārati, all regulative principles, then wash the temple, dishes, and then dress the Deities, then again ārati, then class. In this way, according to... Because we have no natural..., we have not awakened yet our natural love for Kṛṣṇa, so it requires practice, practicing this vidhi-bhakti, compulsory. Vidhi-bhakti means the injunction of the śāstras and the order of spiritual master, one has to follow. Not whimsically we can do anything. Vidhi-bhakti is required. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhi... Na siddhim... [Bg. 16.23]. What is that?

Harikeśa: Nāvāpnoti...



*Prabhupāda: Nāvāpnoti siddhi na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. So in the beginning, neophyte stage, not that "Because we have come to Vṛndāvana, immediately we have become advanced." No. Vidhi*-bhakti must be followed, regulative principle, by the injunction of the śāstra and the order of the spiritual master. Vidhi-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa Himself says, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. Rūpa Gosvāmī has said also, śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā. Again, vidhi.



*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātriki*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*If you do not follow the vidhi as they are given in the Vedas, śruti, and smṛti, as in the Bhagavad*-gītā, śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi, and the Purāṇas, Padma Purāṇa, Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa, Agni Purāṇa, Sattvika-Purāṇa... So śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi and pañcarātrika, Nārada-Pañcarātra.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣikena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*This is Pañcarātrika. Our... In this age, Pañcarātriki-vidhi, not Vaidic. Vaidic is very very strict. Unless one is born by a brāhmaṇa father, he is not given the advantage of becoming a brāhmaṇa. That is Vaidic vidhi. But Pañcarātriki-vidhi means although he is not born of a brāhmaṇa family, if he has got a little tendency to become a brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. One who is inquisitive to understand Brahman-brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]-he should be given chance. Just like there is a little fire. Fan it. Fanning, fanning, fanning, and it becomes a big fire. So our process is that. Anyone, we pick up anyone, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā, what to speak of the śūdra. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyaḥ. In the ordinary way the stri, woman, śūdra, the fourth-grade man, and vaiśya, they are taken together, not very intelligent. But Pāñcarātriki-vidhi offers facility even persons who are lower than these striya, śūdra, vaiśya. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā [SB 2.4.18]. And less than that, ye 'nye ca pāpa yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ... A devotee, a pure devotee of the Lord, and if these persons take shelter of a pure devotee of the Lord, then śudhyanti*-they become purified by following the injunction of the spiritual master. He knows how to deal with them, how to elevate them to the brahminical position. So that is not artificial. Śāstra says, Bhāgavata says, "Yes. By such expert management these kirāta-hūṇāndhra, lower than the śūdras, śudhyanti..." Śudhyanti.



*Now, just like people protest because we are giving the position of a brāhmaṇa to the mlecchas, yavana. Yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ. Khasādayaḥ means Mongolians, the Chinese, Japanese and the Philippines. So they are khasādaya. The Manipuris, Assamese, they are considered as khasādaya. So there is no distinction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given open declaration: kṛṣṇa*-bhajanete nāhi jāti kulādi vicāra. Anyone who is desirous of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is open. Anyone can come. By proper training by the expert spiritual master everyone can be raised to the brahminical platform and then Vaiṣṇava platform. śudhyanti. So how śudhyanti? Śudhyanti. So how śudhyanti? The general process is that unless one is born in brāhmaṇa family, he is not śuddha; *he is impure by birth. That is fact. But the devotee can change. This is new birth, undoubtedly. Just like these, our European, American students. They are new birth. They have given up their old birth practices. So birth is changed. Punar janma. So that is possible only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one has to change his body without changing body... The body is changed, but we see that the same body..., but it is not the same body. It is cin*-maya. The same example, that the iron rod put into the fire, it becomes red hot, so it is no longer iron; it is fire. Similarly, if we constantly keep ourself in touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the body is no longer material; it is spiritual. Therefore a spiritual body is not burned. They are kept, samādhi. Just like in Western countries they give samādhi to any, everyone, tomb, entombing. In India the tomb is offered to a very advanced spiritually person. You'll find many tombs in Vṛndāvana because their body is spiritual. No, no... This is the idea.

*So there are so many things to be done for cultivating spiritual life in the human form of life. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving account that "Fifty years in sleeping and twenty years in playing and twenty years in old age and ten years, simply being absorbed, 'What to do?'*-then life is spoiled." Don't do this. Don't do this. You have got the... There is a Bengali song, pāyecha manava janma, emona janam āra pabe na(?): "Fortunately, you have got this human form of life. You'll not get this opportunity." Don't spoil. So let us follow. We have come to Vṛndāvana. Let us follow the Gosvāmīs. Rūpa raghunātha pade haibe ākuti. We should be very, very anxious to follow the principles laid down by the six Gosvāmīs.

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade, haibe ākuti,

*kabe hāma bujhabo śrī*-yugala...



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade, rahu mora āśa

prārthanā karaye sadā narottama dāsa



*Prārthanā karaye sadā narottama dāsa. The Narottama dāsa, he has sung so many Vedic songs. Narottama dāsa's song, although it is written in Bengali, it is considered as śruti, Vedic. Śrīnivāsa Ācārya has eulogized Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura that "Your songs are Vedic evidences." Whatever Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has said in simple Bengali song, they are all Vedic injunction. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's Prārthanā are very popular and famous amongst the Vaiṣṇava, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, and others also. So we should not waste our..., mugdhasya, bewildered, befooled or illusioned, mugdhasya. Don't be illusioned. Even bālye, in childhood, they should not be because there is no question of bālya or vṛddha. Any, at any moment the life can be finished. You know. There is no guarantee, "Because a child is a child, oh, he has got hundred years' age, so let him play now." No, that is not. He should be trained up. This is the duty of the father and mother. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta*-mṛtyum. "One should not become father, one should not become mother, if he is not very careful to save the child from the imminent death." The imminent death does not mean motor accident. Imminent death means we are in the cycle of birth and death. It is the duty of the father and mother, the duty of the guru, the duty of the relative, to save one another from the cycle of birth and death. This is real upakāra, to save from the cycle of birth... Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This life, we are thinking that "I am eighty years old or ninety years old." But it is not eighty years, ninety... It is mṛtyu. Mṛtyu. You are dying every moment. It is the life of mṛtyu. Therefore one has to save. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. A child is grown up, five years old. Suppose he'll live hundred years. So that means he has already died five years. Therefore it is mṛtyu. Or we have grown eighty years old. That means... Suppose I live hundred years. Still, I have already died eighty years. Therefore it is mṛtyu. The whole life is mṛtyu. Every moment you are dying, dying, dying, dying, from the very birth. Suppose a child is born one hour before. So one hour passed means he has died one hour out of hundred years, the beginning of death. This is called mṛtyum. So we are thinking, "We are growing. We are living." This is all mugdha, bewildered. Where you are growing, you are living? You are dying every moment.



*So dying, death is going on. It is called mṛtyu*-loka. So long you are in the material world, you are simply dying. That's all. At the end, when the balance of life, it becomes finished, we take, at that time, it is mṛtyu. But no, from the very birth there is mṛtyu, always, dying, dying, dying, dying. So mugdha. We are thinking, "We are living and growing, young. We are getting strength." But he does not know that he is dying. Therefore it is explained, mugdhasya: "illusioned." He is taking death as life, mugdhasya. So one should not be so bewildered, mugdhasya, and waste time by playing. Human life is not meant for... Similarly, jarayā grasta-dehasya. Akalpasya. This is also very important. Generally the old man does not know what is going to happen. He is in the hands of the nature. Ask anybody, any big, big man, old man, "What you are going to do?" I met some very important old man in London, one... He was Lord...

Haṁsadūta: Brockway. Lord Brockway?



Prabhupāda: Brockway, I think. I asked him, "What you will do? What is the end of your life?" "No, I shall die peacefully." That's all. He does not know that what is going to happen. Because the Christians, they do not believe in the next life; they think this life is finished, everything is finished. But that is not the fact. Because they cannot find out the soul. But that requires expert knowledge. Just like gold mine, apparently it appears that it is a stone. But one who is expert, soil expert, he can understand, "Here is gold." Just like when I was in South Africa, even in the city Johannesburg there are so many gold mines within the city, gold mines. So ordinary man, how it will... How he'll know that there is gold in the soil? He must be expert. To find out the soul within this body, it is not the business of rascals and fools. He must be very expert, exactly like the soil expert. And then, by analysis... This is called neti neti, na iti. It is very easy. If you think, study your body, take this finger, so you'll say, "My finger." Nobody will say, "I finger." Just like we sometimes examine little child, "What is this?" "Finger." "So a finger, which finger?" "My finger." "Head?" "My head." "Leg?" "My leg." Everything, "my, my." And where is "I"? This is intelligence. Everything, he is studying, "my," and who is "I"? This very question will establish the fact, dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13], that "I" is within this body. Therefore I am speaking, "my."



*So if one is expert in understanding, in analyzing this body, neti neti-"This is blood. This is skin. This is this. This is this. This is urine. This is stool"*-then whole body we analyze. Then where is that "I"? We cannot see. But why you cannot see? As soon as the "I" is off, then whose stool, whose skin, whose bone? So in this way, if we analyze, then we can understand that asmin dehe, within this body, the "I" is there. And what is this "I"? Again, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is further advancement. But these rascal-"Ahaṁ brahmāsmi means 'I am God.' " No. Take, consult Bhagavad-gītā what is this aham. Aham means the part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman, Parabrahman. Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So Kṛṣṇa says, "These Brahmans, these living entities, they are My part and parcel." That is aham understanding, "I." What I am? I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

*So one has to study the body, where is the "I," then what is the relationship of the "I," what is the position of the "I," "What I am?" This is intelligence. This is intelligence. Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from here to teach Sanātana Gosvāmī that this "I," I, you, we are*-jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is the beginning of Caitanya's teachings. Therefore, rascals, they cannot understand what is the movement of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They think that "This crazy fellow, unnecessarily chanting and dancing," because they cannot understand what is this movement. This movement starts when one can understand what is "I." From that point it starts. So what they will understand? Unless one comes to the understanding point what I am, what he will understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement? That is the defect. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind that without understanding, being a fool number one, if he simply joins Caitanya Mahāprabhu's chanting and dancing, he understands immediately, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], immediately, and he understands "What I am."

*So we should not waste our time, mugdhasya bālye kaiśora, and foolish old man, full with disease and invalidity. No. We should immediately begin our spiritual life, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ. If we come to this point, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am Brahman; *I am not this body," that is very fortune, good fortune. But people are... All men, whole, throughout the whole world, they are under this bodily concept of life, and they cannot find out where is the soul, "Where I, where I am." So they are all fools and rascals. So if one comes by cultivation of knowledge, spiritual knowledge, comes to understand that "I am within this body," that is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ, brahma-jñāna, ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



In this way the beginning of devotional life is there. Take advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make your life perfect.



Thank you very much.

*[break] ...of decreasing distress. And those who are trying for going to the heavenly planet for enjoying life more and more, increasing happiness, they are also wasting time. And the whole system of dharma is like that, increasing happiness and decreasing distress. So Kṛṣṇa says both these processes, increasing happiness or decreasing distress, this is sarva*-dharmān parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "Avoid these two ways of life. Simply surrender unto Me." Then shall I go on suffering? Due... "When there is happiness, it is all right. Then I shall go on suffering without any attempt to minimize it?" "Yes. Yes." That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā. Taṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "My dear Arjuna, even if you think there is some distress, still, you should tolerate."

*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino anityāḥ

taṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



*Just like nowadays it is very cold. It will not stay. Say for two months, three months, it will stay, and again there will be summer, and that is also very unbearable. And that will also not stay. Say for two months. So āgamāpāyina. These things, seasonal changes, they come and go. Don't be bothered about these things. So long you have got this body, this śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ... The same thing: sometimes it is distressful, sometimes it is very pleasant. Just like water. Water now is distressful. If you have to take your bath, you have to make it hot; *otherwise it is very distress. And similarly, same water in the summer season, it is very pleasing. The water is there, but it is sometimes distressful, sometimes pleasant. So they are āgamāpāyino. In touch with the skin it is sometimes pleasing, sometimes distressful. So this distress and happiness will be possible... Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha*-yogena dehinām. As soon as it is in touch with the body, such kind of distress and happiness will be fact. But don't be agitated. Your real purpose is that you must increase your Kṛṣṇa consciousness in any circumstances. And that is your business, human life. Don't waste your life. Don't be misguided.



*He is advising to the sons of the demons because the demons, they cannot understand. But it is the duty of the Vaiṣṇava to preach, although Kṛṣṇa advises that "You don't preach the truth of Bhagavad*-gītā to the demons." He said, "Those who have not undergone austerities, those who are not very serious, don't speak about these lessons of Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]." Means they'll not understand. But still, the devotees, they take the risk that "All right, let me try to convince this person that 'Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.' " Even Kṛṣṇa says that "Don't try, because they will not be able to understand," still, they try. That is a devotee. Therefore devotee is more merciful than Kṛṣṇa. Devotee is more merciful. Even there is no hope to understand, still, he goes door to door: "Please take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Please take to Kṛṣṇa, and you'll be happy." It is not always... Just like you are trying to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness with so much endeavor. It's not that cent percent people of the world will take. That is not possible. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Only the fortunate persons will be able to take it. So we should not be disappointed that "Nobody, majority of people, do not take this. What is the use of? Let me sit down in Vṛndāvana and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." No. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He also did it. He never sat down tightly in Vṛndāvana. He also did it. He traveled all over the India and took so much trouble. So preaching is very important, and you should engage. That will help you. Every one of you should be pure in your activities and try to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness as far as possible. If you remain pure, then your preaching will be successful and you'll get encouragement. That is the instruction of all Vaiṣṇavas.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





751210SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.8

-

Vṛndāvana, December 10, 1975



Harikeśa: Translation: "Persons with uncontrolled mind and senses become more and more attached in family life on account of never satiable lusty desires, which are very strong. The balance ten years of life of such madmen is also wasted because they cannot engage themselves in devotional service."



Prabhupāda:



durāpūreṇa kāmena

mohena ca balīyasā

śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya

pramattasyāpayāti hi

[SB 7.6.8]



*So our lusty desires, sense gratification, cannot be satisfied even throughout the whole life. The account is being given of the whole life, hundred years. So out of hundred years, fifty years wasted by sleeping, twenty years wasted by playing like boy and young man, and twenty years as old man, diseased, invalidated, and balance ten years... Because ninety years he has been so much attached to materialistic way of life, naturally the balance ten years, śeṣam, he cannot utilize in any other way. He can simply engage himself in that lusty desire for material existence. Adurātmanena kāmena. In this connection there is a very instructive story-it is fact*-that the Emperor Akbar, he enquired from his minister... He had one very big minister; I forget just his name.



Devotee: Birbal.



Prabhupāda: Birbal? Maybe. Yes. That "How long one remains in lusty desires?" This was Emperor Abar's question, and the minister replied, "Up to the last point of death." So Akbar did not believe it. Akbar said, "No, no. How it can be?" So the minister said, "All right, I shall reply, time." So one day, all of a sudden, he approached the emperor and said, "Sir, you immediately be ready to come with me with your young daughter." So Akbar, he knew that this minister is very intelligent; *there must be some purpose. She went with him, and he took him to a person who was going to die. And the minister asked the emperor that "You kindly study the man who is going to die, on his face." So in the Akbar (indistinct), and his young daughter was entering, the dying man was seeing to the face of the young girl. So Akbar*-after all, he was emperor; *he could study*-he, that "Yes, Birbal, what he said, that up to the last point of death this desire is there to see the face of a young girl."



*This is called durāpūreṇa. It is never fulfilled. This attraction of man and women in family life continues. The other day one devotee came to me, and he was almost crying, that "My wife is suffering, and she may not live. So kindly give me some blessings." Before the death of his wife-because there was nothing serious*-the wife has said, "My dear husband, I may not live very long with you," and he is so disturbed that he is thinking that "My wife may die at any moment." So this is the position. This is not very extraordinary thing. This attraction of man and women, this is material bondage. Therefore it is said, durāpūreṇa kāmena: [SB 7.6.8] this lusty desires is never fulfilled even up to the point of death. And what is this nature of this lusty desire? Moha, illusion. It is not fact. It has no substance, but it is there; *that's a fact. The example is given just like in dream, somebody is cutting my head and I'm crying. Actually there is no man cutting my head*-my head is there-still, I am suffering by such thoughts. This is called moha. Actually there is no fact, but on account of being entangled in three stages of pollution... The pollution is that intelligence. The intelligence is polluted in three ways: jāgriti, svapna, and suṣupti. Jāgriti means just like we are now awakened; we are not sleeping. This is one stage. And another stage, at night when you go to sleep, and you sleep with dream, that is another stage. And another stage is suṣupti, so deeply, just like when a man is intoxicated or chloroform during surgical operation, he does not understand that "Surgical instruments are being applied on my body." He remains silent. This is another stage. So these three stages are there for polluting our intelligence.

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

budhḍhes tu ya para saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



*The soul is beyond all these actions and reactions. But because this living entity's soul is covered by so many gross and subtle elements, he is unnecessarily suffering, although the suffering is temporary. All these sufferings are temporary. Nothing endures. But the suffering is there. Therefore it has been advised by Ṛṣabhadeva, na sādhu manye yata ātmanaḥ ayam asan api kleśada aśa dehaḥ. This whole world, people are suffering on account of these different circumstantial position, the three guṇas and the mind being polluted by these three stages, jāgriti, svapna, suṣupti, and so many things*-they are described, twenty-four elements. On account of this packing of the soul, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, asmin dehe, dehi... Dehi asmin yathā dehe: the real spirit soul is packed up within the body in so many coverings. So our so-called pleasure and pains in this material world, they're artificial. They are not factual, on account of being packed in so many material things. Therefore it is called moha, illusion. It is not fact.



*So if one is serious about spiritual advancement, then he should not... First of all he must know "What is my position? How I am packed up with all these twenty*-four elements?" Of course, due to our habit we are sometimes subjected to these pains and pleasure. Still, Kṛṣṇa says, "You do not become disturbed by these so-called artificial pains and pleasures. Don't be disturbed." Śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Āgamāpāyino 'nityas tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya, śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. Just like we are covering because it is cold, but actually as spirit soul, I am not affected. Asaṅgayaṁ puruṣa. In the Vedas it is said that the soul is unaffected with this material condition. I have several times given this example, that a person has got a good car, and it is somehow or another broken, and he becomes upset, because his car Although he knows that "I am not this car," but his thoughts being absorbed by the attraction of the car, when the car is broken somehow or other he becomes almost unconscious. So this is due to our attachment. So spiritual life means how to get out of this attachment. This is spiritual life. We are "No, what is the wrong if we are attached?" The wrong is that so long we remain attached to these temporary illusory things, you'll not be able to get out of it. That is the whole program. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya. These pains and pleasure is due to this skin; *it is not real. But because you are attached to the skin and bone, therefore you feel sometimes pain and pleasure. But that will not endure. Better tolerate it. Tolerate. That is spiritual, tapasya. That is called tapasya. When one can learn how to tolerate these temporary so*-called pains and pleasure, then he is advanced.

*So if one is simply attached to these pains and pleasures of material skin and bone, then how he can be free from the material condition of life? Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja is describing. It has to be... Prahlāda Mahārāja's proposal is that spiritual life should begin from very childhood, kaumāram ācaret prājño dharmān bhagavatān. Otherwise that attachment will continue, and you'll never be able to give up this attachment, and the spiritual..., material condition of life, the accepting one body, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], accepting one body and accepting another body, this will continue. But the real business of human life is to end this materialistic way of life, that die and again take another..., janma, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9], to be implicated in these four things. Then our suffering will never end. This is spiritual life. Spiritual life means to end the sufferings of material existence. That is Prahlāda... Dharmān bhagavat..., durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma.

*So in the human form of life the children should be trained up to spiritual life. That is the duty of the father and mother. Gṛheṣu saptas. If one remains attached to family life, then gṛheṣu saktasya pramattas. Pramattas means to remain attached to this family life means madness. Means madness. It is very difficult to understand this madness, especially in this age, Kali*-yuga, because we have very little knowledge. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo, manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. The position of the people of the present age, Kali-yuga, they're all bad; *nobody is good. Mandāḥ, all very slow. They do not know what is the aim of life, how to fulfill the goal of life, mandāḥ. And manda*-matayo: and if somebody is interested, they will manufacture some rascaldom. Manda-matayo. And everyone is manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. Unfortunate means that they got this opportunity, human life, to end all the problems of life, but they'll not take care of it. Manda-bhāgyā. And besides that, upadrutāḥ, embarrassed by so many difficulties, especially these men in Kali-yuga will be harassed by insufficient supply of foodstuff, and taxation by the government. Durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ [SB 12.2.9]. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Actually the food price is increasing daily. Nobody knows where it will end. This is called (indistinct). People will not get alms. Alms, to beg from door to door, and live on alms and begging, this will not be possible. Nobody will give alms. Suppose there is ten rupees' kilo rice, and if a sannyāsī goes to a gṛhastha, "Give me some alms, rice," they'll consider in terms of price, "So much rice I have to give. This is two rupees' worth. Give him four annas, go away!" So durbhikṣa, this is called durbhikṣa. Even begging will be very difficult. Begging is the last stage of livelihood, but he'll not be able to beg even. This is the age of Kali-yuga. Durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ, gacchanti giri-kānanam, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti... People will be so much embarrassed that Now they are not voluntarily giving up the family life, but he will be forced to give up. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā. Dāra means wife and draviṇā means money. The whole world is going on on this basis, women and money, So dāra-draviṇā, he'll be forced to give up. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti.

*So on the whole this age is very, very difficult to live peacefully. It is not possible. It is, material life is always full of difficulties, especially in this age, so people should be given instruction and training how to give up this materialistic way of life. The pramattaḥ word is used in Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction also: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Pramattaḥ: everyone is madman. That's a fact. Some years ago one man was condemned to death, and he pleaded that "While I committed this murder I was mad." So he was examined. He was to be examined by the civil servant, and the civil servant, when he came to the court, he said, "My lord, so far my experience goes, everyone is mad. So why do you ask me to examine this man? If to become madman and be excused for being hanged, then you can do so, but my opinion is everyone is mad, more or less." So this statement is also confirmed by the Bhāgavatam and all the śāstras. In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta also it is said,

*piśāci pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīveri sei dāsa upajaya



*Māyā*-grasta ye, those who are in this material world and absorbed in materialistic way of thought, they are just like a man haunted by the ghost, piśāci pāile yena mati-cchanna haya.



*So all this materialistic way of life based on money and lusty desire is madness, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And on account of madness... Just like madman doesn't know what he's doing, similarly any materialistic person without Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a madman. That is also said in Bhagavad*-gītā:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*One cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he is mad, he is rascal. Why? Duṣkṛtina, on account of sinful activities. Therefore what is his position? Narādhamāḥ, the lowest of mankind. Then, "He is educated?" Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: his so-called education has no value, because his real knowledge has been taken away. Real knowledge is*-that is given in Bhagavad-gītā in the beginning-real knowledge is that "I am not this body." But everyone is working on the bodily concept of life; therefore they are all mad. Pramattasya, gṛheṣu saktasya. Because he is madman, therefore he is so much attached.



*So we have to go to the opposite. Attachment... "Then I shall finish all my attachment?" No, you cannot give up your attachment, because that is the symptom of life. You cannot be free from attachment. But the attachment has to be turned to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*In the Sixth..., the Seventh Chapter, Kṛṣṇa is giving lesson how to become unattached to this material world. Mayy āsakta manāḥ pārtha. If you increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa*-if you become perfectly Kṛṣṇa consciousness-then it is possible to be detached. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. Your attachment gets better engagement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means attachment for the best. We have got attachment. We have got attachment for our family, for our home, for our children, for our wife, for our society, for our nation, for our country, and so on, so on, so on, so on-so many. Attachment is there. But with this attachment, gṛheṣu saktasya, if you keep your attachment for these things, then you'll never be free from this material condition of life. Therefore you have to convert or divert your attachment to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we have got attachment, but we have got attachment for false things, temporary things. And if we divert our attachment, that is bhakti. Bhakti does not mean that you give up your living conscience. Attachment is the function of the living being. The living being is attached to his family, wife, children, because he is living being. So living being cannot give up attachment. But if we continue our attachment for this false and temporary materialistic way of life, then we'll never be free from this bondage of material condition. Therefore you have divert your attachment to Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta manāḥ. This is yoga: how to divert your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy. It is not difficult.



Therefore the training is, according to śāstra and the instruction of the spiritual master, that (indistinct): rise early in the morning. Just like a man... Not one man, there are thousands and millions of men at the present moment, because he has got attachment for the family he rises at four o'clock and prepares himself to catch the train at six o'clock to reach Calcutta, Bombay at ten o'clock and attend the office. So from four o'clock to ten o'clock, he has taken so much changing. I have seen in New York also, they are coming in from the other island and waiting for the bus, waiting for the ferry steamer, and so many hours wasted to reach the office. And he works in the office for four or five hours, then again he takes this trouble of going so many miles away. Why he is taking so much trouble? Family attachment. Family attachment. So the people are... Not that he has no attachment. He has got attachment, but this attachment, the same four o' clock, rising early in the morning, for Kṛṣṇa's maṅgala-ārati. This is diversion, a better. But he'll not agree. When he has got to go to office for earning his livelihood, he will automatically rise up and go to the office, because the attachment is strong. But in the temple, the rule is that you must get up before four and prepare yourself, and we have to ring the bells three hundred times, and still you are sleeping. Just see.

*So this has to be practiced. This has to be practiced if you want to divert your attention. The same process. But because we have no attachment for Kṛṣṇa, we have to be forced. Never mind. Still we have to continue this, mayy āsakta..., to increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa, mayy āsakta manāḥ pārtha. We have to train our mind how to become attached to Kṛṣṇa. This is bhakti process. The business is the same, but we have to be trained up for increasing our attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Not that we have to bring a separate attachment. It has to be cleansed. That, how the attachment should be utilized, that is described in the Nārada*-pañcarātra:

sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa

sevanaṁ bhaktir uttamam.

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*Now we..., our attachment is covered by designation: "I am the head of the family. I have to do this. I have to earn this money. I have to do that, I have to do that." This is upādhi. This is... Because upādhi means just like you are designated with some title, B.A., M.A. or some (indistinct ) or some (indistinct)*-there are so many designation. But that is designation. But real... That is not reality. Similarly, our this designation, that "I am the head of this family," "I am the brāhmaṇa," "I am the śūdra," "I am American," these are all designation. Actually it has no reality. On account of material contamination... So we have to cleanse this designation. Then our original attachment for Kṛṣṇa will automatically come. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Consciousness is there, attachment is there, but it is being covered by so many designations. So when you give up this designation, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean that you get some extraordinary position. Mukti means to become free from these material designations. It is same attachment, diversion of attachment to Kṛṣṇa.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means nothing..., everything is there; *it has to be purified by diverting the same thing for Kṛṣṇa. Just like we have got feelings for raising children, attachment. That is attachment. So what Mother Yaśodā is doing? She is attached to Kṛṣṇa, and that is Vṛndāvana. The same thing in otherwise... Vṛndāvana life means all attachment to Kṛṣṇa. Mother Yaśodā is attached to Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja is attached to Kṛṣṇa, the cowherd boys are attached to Kṛṣṇa, the calfs and cows are attached to Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī is attached to Kṛṣṇa, the trees are attached to Kṛṣṇa, the flowers are attached to Kṛṣṇa, the water is attached to Kṛṣṇa... That is Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means the central attachment is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. So if you can create that central attachment for Kṛṣṇa, then it is Vṛn... Then you can create Vṛndāvana anywhere*-any family, any society, any country. Just make the point of attachment Kṛṣṇa, and it is Vṛndāvana. That is required. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya.





760624SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.8

-

New Vrindaban, June 24, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "One whose mind and senses are uncontrolled becomes increasingly attached to family life because of insatiable lusty desires and very strong illusion. In such a madman's life, the remaining years are also wasted because even during those years he cannot engage himself in devotional service."



Prabhupāda:



durāpūreṇa kāmena

mohena ca balīyasā

śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya

pramattasyāpayāti hi

[SB 7.6.8]



*The calculation of life is already given account. Maximum years, hundred years. Fifty years by sleeping, minus. Then fifty years remains. Then twenty years childhood and playing. Then, remaining thirty years, and twenty years in old age, invalidity, not fulfillment of desires, what to do. In this way twenty years, and balance ten years, because all along one is directed by lusty desires, what he'll do? Prahlāda Mahārāja is trying to establish his submission. It is not theory, but submission that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very childhood this bhāgavata*-dharma should be taught and learned. Just like here, these boys, they are very fortunate because from the very beginning of their life they are being taught in bhāgavata-dharma. They are coming, take a little flower, offering to the Deity or the spiritual master, offering obeisances, chanting, taking little prasādam-these are all taken into account. Every inch of it. It is not that playfully they are doing this. No. Because bhakti-mārga, Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things: "Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer obeisances unto Me." Four things. So even the child can do it. A child can, because he is mixing with devotees, he's seeing the Deity, naturally his mind always thinks of Kṛṣṇa, naturally psychology. So man-manā, and they're coming to the temple, mad-bhakta, becoming bhakta. Offering obeisances to the Deity, to the spiritual master, to the Vaiṣṇavas, bhakta, they're becoming bhaktas. And little flower, fruits, offering to the Deity, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. It is so easy. And by practicing this, Kṛṣṇa says if you do this only, then mām evaiṣyasi, you come back. By doing these four things one can go back to home? Yes. Kṛṣṇa says asaṁśaya, "without any doubt." It is so nice. Not that it is gambling: "It may be or..." No. It must be. Anyone who is performing these four principles of devotional service...



*I do not know why people are reluctant to do this simple act when the result is so great. To go home, back to home, back to Godhead is not easy thing. To get out of the clutches of māyā and go back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, it is not so easy thing for ordinarily... But Kṛṣṇa is personally coming and teaching so that people may take advantage of it and go back to home, back to Godhead. Still, people could not understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came as devotee, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, teaching the same thing. Teaching the same thing. He, although He's Kṛṣṇa, He never invented anything. That is called paramparā system. Although He's God Himself, God also does not invent anything. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ [Bg. 13.5]. He's giving reference to the Brahma-sūtra, Vedānta-sūtra. So our line is like that, even God Himself, He can say something new? No. He said to Arjuna, purātanam yogaṁ proktavān, that "I am speaking to you same old philosophy, purātanam yogam, which I spoke to the sun-god." We must stick to this, that a spiritual understanding is never changed. Now the modern days, we have to adjust things. No. That is not spiritual. There is no question of modern and old. Nitya, that is nitya, eternal. We should always remember that. The... Millions and millions of years ago, what was spoken by Kṛṣṇa to the sun-god, the same thing was spoken to Arjuna. He said that "I am speaking to you the same old, purātanaṁ yogam, but because the paramparā system is now broken, so I am making again the paramparā system through you, beginning from you." So the paramparā system, we can understand by Arjuna's behavior, by Arujuna's understanding. Everything is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So if we follow Arjuna then we can understand Bhagavad-gītā very easily.

So we should not waste. If we keep it for future, then, as it is stated by Prahlāda,

durāpūreṇa kāmena

mohena ca balīyasā

śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya

pramattasyāpayāti hi

[SB 7.6.8]



*If you do not practice from the very beginning, it is not possible. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. It is said that the greatest success of life is at the time of (death) remembering Nārāyaṇa, ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ. Just like Ajāmila. He, at the end of his life, remembered Nārāyaṇa. So this is success. But this can be possible if we practice from the very beginning. Ajāmila, first of all, he was a brahmacārī, brāhmaṇa, very well behaved brāhmaṇa, learned everything, but due to bad association he fell down. But Kṛṣṇa gave him the opportunity, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, na me bhakta praṇaśyati. If once one has sincerely become the pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that will never go in vain. So Kṛṣṇa saw this Ajāmila in his childhood and boyhood and youthhood a devotee, so He gave him the chance. At last, he had ten sons. The tenth son was named as Nārāyaṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa's policy, that "This rascal is forgetting Me, so I'll give him a child whose name is Nārāyaṇa." So, with reference to his son, he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa." "Nārāyaṇa, please come here, my dear son. Nārāyaṇa, please take this food." So in this way, his account was being credited, "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa." You see? So therefore he got the salvation. Similarly, if we simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and follow these principles, our life is successful. This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. We have to acquire sukṛti. Sukṛti means pious activities. Su means pious and kṛti means activities. Sukṛtino 'rjuna. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janaḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna [Bg. 7.16]. Arjuna... Those who are sukṛtina, means one's background is pious, they begin bhajana, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janaḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Ārto, arthārthī, jñānī, jijñāsur. Four kinds of men-ārto, the one who is distressed, and arthārthī, one who is poor, wants some money. Jñānī*-one who wants to know what is God; *jijñāsur*-inquisitive. Such persons, if his background is piety, sukṛtina, then he begins bhajana.



*So, otherwise, śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya pramattasya. Gṛheṣu saktasya, those who are too much attached... Everyone is attached in material way of...Gṛheṣu means not only family. Somebody is very much attached to the body. That is natural for every living being, body, bodily attachment is there. Even an animal like hog is living in filthy place and eating stool, still, he has got affection for the body. When the hog is taken from the flock for being killed, he screams very loudly, "Don't want. I don't want to be killed." Although the life is very abominable, still he's attached to the body. The old man is attached to the body. So this is called moha. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Atheists... In our Los Angeles temple we have seen, there are so many karmīs, and when there was earthquake they screamed like anything. So no one wants to die. They say, "No, I can die." No. At the time of death they scream, they do not like. Nobody wants to die. That's a fact. So gṛheṣu saktasya. Generally, people become too much attached to family life. I sometimes say that in the Western countries the young boys, they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their only one great asset is they are not family*-wise attached. That is very good qualification. Someway or other, they have become. Therefore their attachment to Kṛṣṇa becoming staunch. In India they have got organized family attachment. They are not interested. They are after money now. That I have experienced. Yes.

*So family attachment is the greatest impediment in the matter of advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but if the whole family is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is very nice. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He was a family man, but all of the, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, his wife, his children*-and the best children is our Guru Mahārāja, best child... So he has sung by his experience, ye dina gṛhe bhajana dekhi gṛhete goloka bhaya. If family-wise, everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is very nice. That is not ordinary family. That attachment is not ordinary attachment. But generally people are attached materially. That is condemned here. Śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya pramattasya apayāti hi. They are called pramatta. Everyone is thinking that "My family, my wife, my children, my nation, my community, that is everything. What is Kṛṣṇa?" This is the greatest illusion imposed by māyā. But nobody will able to give you protection.

*dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣv

*ātma*-sainyeṣv asatsv api

teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*Everything will be finished. Nobody can give us any protection except Kṛṣṇa. If we want to be freed from the clutches of māyā-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]*-we must take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master and live with devotees who have engaged themselves for the same purpose. It is called... What is that exact word? Sakhi or something. Now I am forgetting. But in the same category we must live and execute our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then these impediments, gṛheṣu saktasya pramattasya. Anyone who is..., all the karmīs, they are attached to this family life, but family life is good provided there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Gṛhe vā vanete thāke, hā gaurāṅga bole dāke. It doesn't matter, either he is in family life or he's in sannyāsī life, if he's a devotee, then his life is successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



751211SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.9

-

Vṛndāvana, December 11, 1975



Harikeśa: Translation: "Who is the person who is too much attached to household life on account of being unable to control the senses and (who can) liberate himself because he is bound up very strongly with the rope of affection for the family, namely wife, children, relatives, etc.?"



Prabhupāda:



ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam

ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ

*sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham

utsaheta vimocitum

[SB 7.6.9]



The point is discussed, how one can get out of the bondage of material existence, vimocita. But people do not know that "This is my business, how to get out of this entanglement." They do not know even what is that entanglement. Such foolish civilization is going on. And they are passing as scientist, philosopher, big, big politician, but they do not know what is the aim of life. The aim of life is vimocita. We are spirit soul, eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], nityo śāśvato 'yam. They do not know. At the present moment almost everyone, 99.9% people, they do not know what is our problem and how to get out of it. They do not know. Ignorance, stupidity, mūḍha.



*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*Again the same thing. Īśa tantryām, uru*-dāmni baddhāḥ. We are bound up, hands and legs, by the tantryām, the shackles or ropes of nature, or God. We are not free. 'Pīśa tantryāṁ baddhāḥ. We are not free; *still, we are trying to excel the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The modern scientists, they are very much proud that they have advanced very much so that there is no need of talking about God. This is the material civilization. So many wonderful things are going on. They cannot explain even how things are going on, and still they are proud of scientific advancement and declare, "There is no God." This is foolish civilization, narādhama. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. And they are engaged in sinful activities. To solve the population-janma, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]*-they are killing. That means increasing problem. They do not know the actual fact, that by this killing process they are increasing the problems of life. So what is due to? This is due to sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham. We are bound up by the shackles of nature, and it is due to our attachment for material existence. Attachment. And we have to undo this attachment, vairāgya. Undo this attachment means vairāgya, detachment. That is the thing necessary.



So how we become detached? We are so much attached; *how we can become detached? That is also given. The process is given in the Bhāgavatam: vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ [SB 1.2.7]. If you engage yourself in executing devotional service to Vāsudeva, vāsudeve bhagavati... Vāsudeva means the Supreme Personality of Godhead, most opulent. Bhagavati. Bhagavān means most opulent, full with six kinds of opulence. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ-no other means. You cannot become liberated by any other means except bhakti-yoga. That is Bhāgavatam. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi... [Bg. 18.55]. Kṛṣṇa says, "You can simply become liberated by the bhakti process." There are many processes. Accepting those..., they are also different processes. But nothing is powerful except the process enunciated by God Himself, Kṛṣṇa. He says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ.

vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyam...

[SB 1.2.7]



*That is detachment. And bhakti*-yoga means vairāgya-yukta. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254].



*Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained this verse in connection with Caitanya Mahāprabhu's activities, that "Who is this personality?" So he explained. He composed one hundred verses with reference to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's activities. Some of them are available, mentioned in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. So first of all, ascertaining Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya says that "This movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement enunciated by, inaugurated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, what is this? Vairāgya-vidyā. This is the instructional lesson, or education, vidyā, education." It is vairāgya-vidyā, detachment education. It is not attachment education. The material education means attachment education. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, 'yara vidyā sa māyā boyba: our attachment for this material world, it is māyā, illusion. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. This material happiness is made by māyā, and they are making gorgeous arrangement, these fools and rascals, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. They're making gorgeous arrangement. Why? Because they are vimūḍhān, all rascals. "Why rascals? They are scientists, they are philosophers." That's all right, but after making all these arrangements, you are under the clutches of māyā. You are not free from the clutches of māyā. So why you are wasting time in this way? You cannot..., you did not make any solution or any assurance that whatever you are creating for enjoyment you will be able to enjoy. No. That is not possible. That they do not see. They are constructing big, big roads, motorcars, and skyscraper building, but there is no assurance that you'll be able to enjoy it. That is not possible. At any moment, finished. Your skyscraper building, your big, big road, your big, big motorcars, it will remain where you manufactured and you have to leave. That they do not see. This is called mūḍha. Mūḍho nābhijānāti. They..., they're not They are afraid of death, but on account of foolishness they declare, "Oh, we don't We are not afraid of death." They're afraid.

*So actually we should not increase our foolishness. Human life is meant for utilizing our intelligence. That is human life. Instead of utilizing intelligence, if we increase our foolishness, that's the wrong type of civilization. That is not actual civilization. Caitanya Mahāprabhu very kindly inaugurated this civilization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the same thing as it is confirmed in the Vedas: vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti*-yogaḥ projitaḥ janayaty āśu vairāgyam Āśu: "very soon." The examples are here. You are Europeans and Americans; *you were attached to so many things. But because you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, means vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti*-yogam. This, you have come to Vṛndāvana to worship Vāsudeva or Kṛṣṇa, or in your country you have established some many temples. In account of being engaged in the devotional service of Vāsudeva, although you are young boys and girls, you have given up so many nonsense things. This is called vairāgya. This is called vairāgya, detachment. Meat-eating is the general life of Europeans and Americans, but at the present moment if someone offers you millions of dollars and he requests you that "You take some meat with me," I think you will deny. This is called vairāgya. This is called vairāgya. I've actually seen our Gargamuni was sent to his father. I advised him that "Your father has big business. Just take it for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So father was very glad, his father, but he offered meat, and when he said, "Father, Daddy, I cannot take meat," then the father became angry. He drove him away. (indistinct) So he came back. The young man, father's property, he refused to take it.

*So this is vairāgya. And the whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means vairāgya*-vidyā, the education of vairāgya, detachment. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa, and He wanted to teach the people this vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam. As Kṛṣṇa He commanded, "Just give up all this nonsense engagement." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Just surrender unto Me. That is good for you. I shall save you from the reactions of your sinful activities." Material life means simply sinful activities. Simply. Even though there is some covering of pious activities, that is also sinful. You are in this world It is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, dvaite bhadrābhadra jñāna. Dvaite means "in this world of duality," bhadra and abhadra. We have manufactured so many things. We say "This is very good" and "This is bad." Bhadra abhadra. Bhadra means good, and abhadra means bad. But Caitanya-caritāmṛta-kav, Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Goswami, he says that this good and bad-concocted. They are neither good nor bad. They are the same thing-material quality. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali saṅg... Then how things are going on, "This is good; *this is bad"? Ei bhāla ei manda saba manodharma. This is mental concoction. In the material world there cannot be anything good. It is bad. If there is real goodness, that is spiritual world, śuddha-sattva. Sattva-guṇa. In the material world there are three guṇas. Of these, sattva-guṇa is accepted as very good*-the modes of goodness. But above this mode of goodness there is śuddha-sattva, pure goodness. "Goodness is goodness"-no. This goodness is polluted with ignorance and passion. Therefore we see in the material world a person very good But yesterday morning we were discussing about Brahmā: very good, but sometimes he is also polluted. Therefore it is not pure goodness in this material world. Even there is goodness, it is not pure. There is always chance of becoming polluted by the other base qualities, ignorance and passion.

*Therefore here cannot be pure goodness. Pure goodness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform, devotional service. If you keep yourself rigidly on the platform of devotional service, then you are pure goodness. And as soon as you are slack, immediately the other two base qualities will attack you. Therefore it is very difficult to keep pure goodness. Take for example: goodness is brāhmaṇa. How at the present moment the brāhmaṇa, the hereditary brāhmaṇa, by birth, how they have fallen on account of attack of these base qualities. But they're trying to keep their brahminical platform in spite of being polluted by the other two base qualities. Therefore the Caitanya-caritāmṛta author's statement that ei bhāla, ei manda, saba bhrama: even if you are raised to the brāhmaṇa quality, there is always chance of falling down. Therefore you have to keep always in the transcendental platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati... [Bg. 18.54]. Even from brahma-bhūtaḥ platform one falls down. One who is already mixed, or merged into the Brahman, they fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Why? Anādṛta yusmad aṅghrayaḥ. Unless one is very rigid devotee, even he has approached the other feature*-that means the Brahman feature: Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān-so he falls down, very, very easily. And why? That is this attachment-sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham. Dṛḍhair baddham. That, I was citing Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song, jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jīvake karaye gādhā. Gādhā means ass. Uṣṭra khara. Śva-viḍ uṣṭra khara. So this so-called advancement of civilization means the living entity is always compared as an ass, mūḍha. So instead of becoming intelligent, by material education one becomes more and more first-class ass. jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, because the more you become advanced in so-called material civilization, you'll forget God. Māyāra vaibhava. Māyā's business is to keep you always sleeping, forgetting God. This is māyā's business. Daivī hi eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. This is māyā's business. The more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are under the influence of māyā. Jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. If you increase your volume of material civilization, then more and more you'll forget God and you'll be attached to this material world, māyāra vaibhava.

*So people are increasing more and more and becoming under the clutches of māyā. That is janma*-mṛtyu-jāra-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Clutches of māyā means birth, death, old age, and disease. This is māyā's shackles, or ropes. But they do not care for it. They do not take into account that "I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. I do not die even after the destruction of this body, so why shall I suffer in this way repeatedly birth and death?" And that is also not only inconvenient, but very much painful. Today you are American or something, or Indian, but tomorrow if you become a tree in the American land, then what is your position? But they do not care for it, do not understand it, therefore it is māyāra vaibhava. This advancement of material civilization is māyāra vaibhava. Therefore the Vedic civilization is voluntarily accepting poverty. Voluntary. Big, big kings, they voluntarily accepted poverty. Rūpa Goswami Don't go to the past, big, big..., Bhārata Mahārāja and others. Even Lord Rāmacandra. Take recent history, within five hundred years. Rūpa Goswami, the chief minister of the government of Bengal, most opulent position: tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. They became mendicant, voluntarily accepting, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-mandala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. "What is this nonsense position, minister, opulent life? Kick it out." They are not fools. They are politicians. But why they "Kick it out." Then what they became? Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. They become mendicant.

So voluntarily accepting poverty, this is Indian civilization, this is Vedic civilization. Not to increase material opulence but to decrease. The more you decrease, you are civilized. And the Western countries, if you decrease, if you instruct them that "Decrease these nonsense activities. No more tire(?) civilization," they'll say "Oh, this is primitive, primitive." This tendency is present. But actually, the primitive civilization... Not primitive; *that is very sober civilization, anartha. Instead of increasing unwanted necessities, decrease it. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje [SB 1.7.6]. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvāṁś cakre sātvata saṁhitām. This sātvata saṁhitām bhāgavata is there, simply to decrease this unwanted so-called material civilization. It is very difficult to understand, but our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose. We are interested to construct a nice temple, but we are not interested to construct a very big skyscraper building for people's generally No. We should live very humbly. But for Kṛṣṇa we can In India you'll find there are so many valuable temples which cannot be constructed at the present moment. You will see in this Vṛndāvana that the broken Govindaji's temple, it is not possible to construct such costly temples at the present moment. Even by spending crores of rupees you cannot construct. But one who has money, they used to do that. It should be engaged for Kṛṣṇa's comfort. This is bhakti. This is bhakti. For Kṛṣṇa's The Vṛndāvana means everyone is engaged how to keep Kṛṣṇa in comfort. This is Vṛndāvana. Not for personal comfort. The whole Vṛndāvana is engaged, beginning from Mother Yaśodā, Nanda Mahārāja, the young gopīs and the young cowherd boys*-that is Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa is the center.

*So the more we become engaged with the view to give Kṛṣṇa the comfortable position, that is our aim of life. Then we can be liberated. Sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham. So we should not be very much interested for personal comfort, but if the comfort of the superior, Kṛṣṇa, then it will be possible to get out of these material clutches. That is called vairāgya. Sneha-pāśair baddham. At the present we are bound up by the laws of material nature, and if we want to undo it, then we should learn vairāgya-vidyā.

*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*This is Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. If you want to get out of this material bondage, vairāgya-vidyā, then learn bhakti-yoga, vairāgya-vidyā. And how to learn? Kṛṣṇa Himself is teaching, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Just see His vairāgya. At home, the most affectionate mother, and the most beautiful young wife, Viṣṇu-priyā-He renounced everything. Tyaktvā su-dustyaja-surepsita-rājya lakṣmīṁ dharmiṣṭha ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam [SB 11.5.34]. He became sannyāsa. In full young time, twenty-four years, having nice wife at home, very affectionate mother, they're very, mother end wife, they take care of very nicely. The home appears to be very, very happy home due to mother and due to wife. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had both of them. Not only that*-He was a learned scholar, very influential in Nabadwip. He could gather 100,000 men by His order only. He was so influential and so beautiful, so learned-everything. Su-dustyaja-surepsita-rājya lakṣmīm [SB 11.5.34]. His opulence was very, very great, but He gave up. Tyaktvā tūrṇam. Similarly, the Goswamis also gave up their position. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means vairāgya-vidyā: to get detached. Don't increase attachment. Try to decrease attachment, then you'll be successful.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya!





760625SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.9

-

New Vrindaban, June 25, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "What person too attached to household life due to being unable to control his senses can liberate himself? An attached householder is bound very strongly by ropes of affection for his family (wife, children and other relatives)."



Prabhupāda:



ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam

ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ

*sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham

utsaheta vimocitum

[SB 7.6.9]



*Actually, this material life is our bondage. It may be... Just like gold handcuff or iron handcuff. So handcuff is bondage. Either it is made of gold or iron, it doesn't matter. So we are in this material world handcuffed, imprisoned. Our aim of life is how to get out of this material bondage or prisonhouse. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in another place, when he was asked by his father what's the best education he had received from his teachers, so father asked him to explain, so the son, Prahlāda Mahārāja said that hitvātma*-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. This is the best thing he has learned. What is that? Hitvātma-ghāṭam gṛham andha-kūpam. Gṛha, this family life is called gṛham andha-kūpam. Just like a man fallen in the dark well, so it is sure death, ātma-ghātam. Unless we are very cautious, this gṛha-andha kūpam, this family life, is very dangerous for spiritual advancement. Therefore, according to Vedic system, it is very regulated. First of all one is trained up as a brahmacārī, not to be attached in sex life. That is brahmacārī, celibacy. Just like these boys, these children, if we train them how to remain in celibacy... They can be trained up. The first training is brahmacārī. To remain in the gurukula... They are innocent. As you train them, they will be trained up.



So in the beginning of life to train the children as brahmacārīs is essential. The fact is that one may not be attached to sex life. Sex life only allowed to beget children. That's all.

putrāyate kriyate bhāryā

*putra*-pinda prayojanam

*pun*-nāma trāyate iti

putra...



*These are the Vedic injunction. Bhāryā, wife is accepted, putrāyate, only for having good children. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said, dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi: "Lusty sex life is, when it is not against the religious principle, that sex life I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Dharmāviruddho. So dharmāviruddho, or which is not against religious principles. In this way you will find, according to Vedic system, the sex life is practically denied. But because we are now in the conditioned state, it is very difficult to completely deny sex life, there is regulative principle. First of all, training, no sex life. If you can remain without sex life, brahmacārī, it is very good. But if you cannot, then get yourself married, live with wife, but have sex only for progeny, not for sense enjoyment. Therefore even one is married, if he's sticking to one wife and the wife is sticking to one man, that is real married life, then the husband is also called brahmacārī. Even though he's a gṛhastha. And the wife is called chaste.



*So this is human civilization. Gṛhastha. That also allowed only for a few years. Not few years. Formerly, as we have calculated that people used to live for hundred years, so twenty*-four years, twenty-five years, brahmacārī; *twenty*-five years, gṛhastha; *twenty*-five years, vānaprastha; *and last twenty*-five years, sannyāsa. Ultimately sannyāsī, training. So in these four āśramas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa, in three āśramas, there is no sex life. Brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Only gṛhastha allowed sex life. That is also restricted only for begetting children. So in the Vedic civilization sex life is actually denied. Only in gṛhastha life with the restriction. Not that whenever I like. No. That is bondage. So long we'll be attached to sex life, then we'll have to accept this material body. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham [SB 7.9.45]. We should remember this. But what will be the effect unless we are trained up? People are not educated what is the value of life, how life should be conducted, what is the aim of life. But everything can be done. It is no difficulty. Just like a man practicing to lift... I think everyone, you know, if he takes on his back one small calf, it grows, when the calf becomes a very big bull one can lift. This is practice. But all of a sudden, if you want to lift one big bull on your shoulders, that is not possible. But if you practice to take the little calf from the very beginning, it grows and your strength grows. It grows... This is gradual process. So in the human form of life, the whole training is... That is Vedic civilization, how to avoid sex life. That is liberation. If I have got desire for sex life, some way or other, then I will have to take birth again in this material world to satisfy.

*So the training should be how to give up this idea, and it is possible. If training is there, then it is possible. That is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja: kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very beginning, children should be trained up in this line. That is the responsibility actually, father's, mother's affection. But the father*-mother do not know what is the aim of life. Neither they are trained up. How they can train up their children? But here is the prescription how to train up. So in this age, although it is a very difficult task, at least if we teach our children to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then everything is possible. That is the facility of this age. He'll be gradually trained up to the highest perfection. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's benediction is there: yaha haite sarva siddhi haibe tomara. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you'll get all perfection of life. So either... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, gṛhe vā vanete thāke, "hā gaurāṅga" bole dāke. So don't be afraid that because we are in this age we cannot be trained up, it is very difficult. But we can very easily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. That is a special concession of this age. Just like these children were dancing and chanting. And it is the duty of the parents to train the children in such a way they get liberty in this very life. Father, mother, they should think of their innocent children, that "This boy, this child has come to us. Now let us train him in such a way that he will get liberty, no more birth and death." This is real responsibility of father and mother. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sa syāt, guru... Everyone's duty should be how to give relief to the living entities from these clutches of birth and death. That is ideal civilization.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says if you don't train up in the beginning, then ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ. Ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ, the whole training is to control the senses, and the most powerful sense is the tongue. Sense control begins from the tongue. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given you the song: tār madhye jihvā ati lobhamoy sudurmati. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura gives a description that Śarīra avidyā*-jāla joḍendriya tāhe kāl. This body is the encagement. We are in the prison of this material world. How we are imprisoned? We have been given a material body. This is imprisonment. Śarīra avidyā-jāl. And we are very happy to keep this body very comfortably without knowing the aim of life. That is avidyā-jāl, a network of ignorance. Śarīra avidyā-jāl, and the senses are our greatest enemies. Unless we control the senses, we are put into this avidyā-jāl, network of... And out of all the senses, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says tār madhye jihvā-jihvā means tongue-jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. It is very greedy. Jihvā, to control the tongue. To control the senses means begin with the controlling the tongue. That is also very difficult job. So therefore to control the tongue, best thing is to take kṛṣṇa prasādam. First of all, offer to Kṛṣṇa and then take. Tāra madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati tā'ke jetā koṭhina soṁsāre. Kṛṣṇa boḍa-doyāmoy kori bare jihvā joy. At least if we take it as a vow that "I shall not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa," that will help us. Kṛṣṇa boḍa-doyāmoy, kori bare jihvā joy svaprasād ānna dilā bhāi.

*So with the tongue begins spiritual life. If we restrict our tongue not to talk uselessly, simply talk of Kṛṣṇa, or chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read Kṛṣṇa books, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and when you are hungry, take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, then it will be possible. You can control the tongue. And if you can control the tongue, then you can control other senses very easily. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given a very easy formula, tār madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati tā'ke jetā koṭhina soṁsāre kṛṣṇa boḍa*-doyāmoy, kori, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that from Vaikuṇṭha He has come here in this remote village of America. He's so kind, just to accept your service. Don't think that "Here is a doll." No. Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, on the request of devotee, He has come. You should always remember this, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa, personally present." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu... It requires only advanced sense. When He saw Jagannātha at Purī temple, He immediately fainted, "Here is My Lord." So it is only advanced understanding, but preliminary understanding is that "Here is Kṛṣṇa." Don't think that it is a doll. Even if you think it is doll, but Kṛṣṇa has come to you in the form of doll so that you can see. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is always present everywhere. We cannot see. Or you can handle. Kṛṣṇa is everything. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has come here to be seen by you, to be touched by you, to be dressed by you, to be decorated by you, to accept whatever you nicely offer with bhakti. Kṛṣṇa is not hungry or Kṛṣṇa has no food at His Vaikuṇṭha? No. He has got. He is supplying everyone food. So He has got everything. We should always remember that He has kindly come for our benefit, so let us be always cautious and very respectful and offering the nicest prasādam prepared with great attention. In this way, if we practice, then our life becomes very successful. Otherwise, we shall be very much attached. Because we are ajitendriya, we cannot control our senses. Very difficult. But if you take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, although apparently we are greedy, but on account of taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam, it is neutralized. Our greediness, by taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam, it is neutralized.

*Sneha*-pāśair. This sneha-pāśa, sneha is there. Sneha means affection. Everyone got affection. The cats and dogs they have got also affection. But the affection is wrongly placed. We are affectionate to the skin, to this body. So this is wrong affection. Real affection is to the soul. That we do not know, we have no information. We are loving our child, that is very good, but not the soul, but the body. If someway or other the child is dead or my father is dead, we cry, "Father has gone." Why father has gone away? The body which you loved, that is lying there. So we do not know whom to love. So if we love actually, let us love the soul. How the soul... Love..., to love means for benefit. That is real love. I love you for your benefit; *you love me for my benefit. If I so*-called love you for my benefit, that is lust. So in this material world there cannot be love. It is not possible. Because everyone loves, so-called love. He loves his sense gratification. A young boy loves a young woman for his sense gratification, not for her sense gratification. Similarly she also. So in this material, this cheating is going on. I want to satisfy my lusty desires, but it is going on in the name of love. There cannot be any love in this material world. Because love is between spirit and spirit. But if we try to love the Supreme Spirit, Kṛṣṇa, then we shall understand how our love can be spread in the spiritual world. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu...

[Bg. 18.54]



*When we come to the spiritual platform, then actual love begins. Mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. That love begins... If we can love Kṛṣṇa, then, through Kṛṣṇa's love, we can expand our love for everyone. Yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ [SB 4.31.14]. Just like watering the root of the tree, the energy is expanded to the limbs, to the flowers, to the branches, similarly, if we want to love... Everyone... Just like we are coming, some patriot. Nobody loves nobody; that is all professional business. If we actually love Kṛṣṇa, then we can expand our love: patriotism, socialism, this "ism," that... Just like we are trying to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world because on account of love. Someway or other, we have come in contact with Kṛṣṇa. We are understanding that these people are in māyā or in ignorance, they do not know how to become happy. So our little attempt is "Let them become Kṛṣṇa conscious." This is out of love. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Everyone is suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, therefore we are taking so much trouble. This is at least one side, that Kṛṣṇa wants them to deliver, and if we work on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, that is also love. We love Kṛṣṇa.



*So we have got everything in writing, in books, in instructions. Our duty is to take them rightly and utilize it properly, advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sneha*-pāśair. Otherwise we shall be on a platform of false love. The platform of false love we know: today one pair is married, but because the love is on the false platform, the next day there is divorce. That is not love. That kind of love has no meaning, that kind of affection has no meaning. It is simply bondage. So try to... Our aim is how to become free from this material bondage and real sneha, real affection, real love should be spread. And that can be done through Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, it is all false. Sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham utsaheta. This māyā is so strong that we are taking this false thing as reality. It is very difficult to give it up. That is explained by Kṛṣṇa:

*daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*This is the only meaning. If we become pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then my love will be extended to everyone. Not only my society, but to everyone. It is not that "This is my children, that is other's children." All children. All human being. Not my countrymen-all other countrymen. Not only human beings, but even animals also. That is sneha. It is not that "I am safe, and let the animals be killed in the slaughterhouse." No, that is not love. Love means for everyone. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equality to all living entities. That is real love. That is real concern, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A lover of Kṛṣṇa will hesitate to kill even one ant. You know the story, Mrgrari. That is love. Because one has got... Just like this child. If I like I can kill him, there is no difficulty. But does it mean that I shall kill him? No. Similarly, a small ant, anyone can kill. No. Here is a living entity, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Samaḥ sarveṣu-he should not be unnecessarily killed. We should be careful, not that "Trample over the ants and let them be killed." No, everything should be carefully done. Of course, we cannot stop this, but we should be careful, and if it is done, then if we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa will excuse. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. Therefore the business should be, if we walk at all, we shall walk for Kṛṣṇa. Then if some ant is killed*-not knowingly, unknowingly-then we are untouched by these sinful activities. Otherwise, we are immediately noted down, "Here is a man, he has killed, he has..." The nature's law is so minute. Every minute, the account is there. But if you remain in the business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is excuse. Otherwise, everyone is become obliged. If I take from you one cent, I have to pay you with four cents, with interest, compound interest. This is the law of karma. We are... Just like taking money from others. Unless we spend it for Kṛṣṇa, then we shall be obliged to return.



So,

*devarṣi bhūtāpta*-nṛṇāṁ pitṛṇāṁ

nāyam ṛṣīṇāṁ kiñkara rājan

sarvātmanā ye śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ

gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam

[SB 11.5.41]



*We have got so many obligations, devarṣi, to the demigods, to the saintly great sages, ṛṣis. Because ṛṣis are giving us... Just like Vyāsadeva has given us this literature. So we are obliged to him, we are indebted to him. We are indebted to the demigods. The sun is giving sunshine, the moon is giving at night shine, and the cloud, Indra, is giving us water. So we are all indebted. Devarṣi*-bhūta... Therefore there are so many different types of yajñas mentioned in the Vedic literature. But if you perform one yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña, then you become clear from everyone's debt. Gato mukundam śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Then we are freed from all debts. So in this way we have to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very carefully, and the simple process is chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Thank you very much. (end)



690331SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.9-17

-

San Francisco, March 31, 1969



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)



It is not working?

Devotee: The extension cord. (pause)



Prabhupāda:



ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam

ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ

*sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham

utsaheta vimocitum

[SB 7.6.9]



Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja is describing how Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be practiced. His proposition is to his friends, young friends, that Kṛṣṇa conscious should be practiced from very childhood. And he has explained very nicely that as we grow, most of our time is wasted in so many ways. First of all he has analyzed that although we may have one hundred years of age duration of life, fifty years immediately gone because we sleep at night. And twenty years for playing, and twenty years for disease and other things. So twenty, twenty, plus fifty so out of hundred years, ninety years gone, wasted. Ten years. That ten years means great attachment. The more we become entangled in this materialistic attraction...



*The materialistic attraction means, the first attraction is sex. This whole world, not only human society, in animal society also... There are 8,400,000's of different kinds of societies according to different kinds of species of life. "Birds of the same feather flock together." As it is said, that a species, a particular type of species of life... Not only that, we human beings, we have flocked together. Birds of the same feather. This is not very important thing. If you combine together as American or Indian or Chinese or many other names, oh, same thing in there in the lower animals also. Therefore this saying is very nice, that "Birds of the same feather flock together." So this propensity of combination of society, community, amongst the human being, is not very important improvement. So in this way, our attachment increases. So when we are old enough, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam. The older we are, our attachment for home*-home, society, society, friendship, love-increases.

*The beginning of attachment is sex. That is described in the Bhāgavata. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī etat. The whole world is attached with one another on the basis of sex. So the sex attraction increases as we increase our products of sex. Gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ [SB 5.5.8]. The products of sex... The first combination is with wife, and then we want some apartment or place to live together; then produce children; then we want society; *then we want money, wealth. In this way, go on increasing, the real purpose of life is forgotten. The real purpose of life is, especially for the human being, is how to get away from this material bondage. So in the old age, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, when the attachment is too much grown Ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam. The attachment for home, society, friendship, is natural. But when that attachment is very solid and grown strong, at that time he says, sneha*-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham. When the affection with one another is very firmly settled, how one can leave? (aside:) I am feeling warm. Wretched(?). I want to take off, yes. (sound of Prabhupāda removing sweater) It is inconveniently turned. (pause) Sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham utsaheta. When our attachment becomes too much strong, it is not possible to give up this material society, friendship, love, and attachment.

*So therefore the whole stress is given, Prahlāda Mahārāja giving, that if we want to begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we have to begin immediately because the more we grow older, our attachment for material things becomes more and more strong, and at that time it is very difficult. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, as I was explaining the other day, at a certain point one has to, by, I mean to say, voluntarily, one has to give up the so*-called society, friendship and love, and engage fully for cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, in this meeting I shall request those who are not very much attached to this materialistic way of life... They are seeking after something tangible, for, I mean to say, spiritual consciousness or spiritual life. So for them I present with submission that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only solace for the human society if they are actually hankering after something spiritual. So let them understand this science and seriously consider. Do not be misled. If you are actually hankering after something sublime, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the, the thing. So we submit for your consideration and take it very seriously. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said,

ko nv artha tṛṣṇāṁ visṛjet

prāṇebhyo 'pi ya īpsitaḥ

yaṁ krīṇāty asubhiḥ preṣṭhais

taskaraḥ sevako vaṇik



*Now, when one is grown up, the attraction for money, attraction of, I mean to say, paraphernalia, attraction for bank balance, everything increases, and, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, at that time it is very difficult to give up all this attraction voluntarily. So better begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately. He is giving very nicely a nice example that "Money is very dear to the mercantile people, money is very dear to the thieves, rogues, money is dear to everyone. And sometimes they risk life for money. Money is so pleasant and so dear that sometimes we risk our life for getting money. So how we can give up the monetary attraction when we are too much, I mean to say, attracted to this materialistic way of life?" Then again he says, kathaṁ priyāyā anukampitāyāḥ saṅgaṁ rahasyaṁ rucirāṁś ca mantrān. Then he said that "In old age the affection between husband and wife is revived." First of all, in young age, they enjoy life, and in old age they remember, "Oh, how we enjoyed in our young age. How we talked together, how we would walk together." These things, by contemplation, they enjoy. Suhṛtsu tat*-sneha-sitaḥ śiśūnāṁ kalākṣarāṇām anurakta-cittaḥ. In this way, children, the children, they talking very nicely, laughing very nicely, and they are thinking, contemplating. In this way, attachment increasing, daily, attachment increasing. This description, of course, very common, but we should know that these are the shackles of māyā.



*What we call māyā... Māyā means Mā means "not," and yā means "this." What you are accepting as fact, it is not a fact. This is called māyā. Ma*-ya. Māyā means "Don't accept it as truth." It is simply flickering flash only. Just like in the dream we see so many things, and in the morning we forget everything. This is subtle dream. And this existence, this bodily existence and relationship to this body, society, friendship, and love and so many things, they are also gross dream. It will finish. It will stay Just like dream stays for a few minutes or few hours when you are asleep, similarly, this gross dream also will remain, say, for few years. That's all. It is also dream. But actually we are concerned with the person who is dreaming or who is acting. So we have to take him out from this dream, gross and subtle. That is the proposition. So that can be done very easily by this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and that is being explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja.

putrān smaraṁs tā duhitṝr hṛdayyā

bhrātṝn svasṝr vā pitarau ca dīnau

gṛhān manojñoru paricchadāṁś ca

*vṛttīś ca kulyāḥ paśu*-bhṛtya-vargān



We, about our home, we think, nice decorated home, and the furnitures, the dress, and the animals, the servants, and the brother, the sister, the old father, and so many, I think. So we always think. These are all our bondage. "Out of sight, out of mind." So long we are attached, we are, I mean to say, within the association of these things, we have got very good attachment, but if we go out of this sight, or this association, then "Out of sight, out of mind." To make these things out of sight, out of mind, one is recommended that after fiftieth year one must retire from this family life, and when he is still more advanced, he should take sannyāsa and completely, cent percent, devote his life for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he's giving very nice example.



*tyajeta kośas*-kṛd ivehamānaḥ

*karmāṇi lobhād avitṛpta*-kāmaḥ

*aupasthya*-jaihvaṁ bahu-manyamānaḥ

*kathaṁ virajyeta duranta*-mohaḥ



*Now, you know the silkworm, the silkworm entangles itself in cobweb, and it cannot get out. Perhaps most of you know. And those who are industrialists in silk industry, they collect those cobwebs of silkworms and boil in the water, and the worm dies, and then silk comes out. So similarly, we are manufacturing the cobweb of silk in this so*-called society, family, and being attracted in it. It is very good example. And the attraction is aupasthya-jaihvaṁ bahu-manyamānaḥ. Aupasthya means sex, sex, the organ for progenating. That is called aupasthya. And the other important sense is this tongue. So we are attached to this paraphernalia on account of this tongue and on account of that sex genital. That's all.



*Aupasthya-jaihvaṁ bahu-manyamānaḥ, kathaṁ virajyeta duranta-mohaḥ. Duranta means formidable. It is very difficult. So according to Vaiṣṇava philosophy or Vaiṣṇava activities, because this tongue is very strong to be conquered, to be win over, the tongue is given Kṛṣṇa prasādam. First thing is tongue is controlled, that "You should not eat such and such things, you should not drink such and such things, you should simply take Kṛṣṇa prasādam." That means that is the process of controlling the tongue. And if you can control the tongue and draw a straight line, then you control your belly and control your sex also. That is the formula. Because these three things are making us too much attracted to the society, friendship and love. Kuṭumba-poṣāya viyan nijāyur na budhyate 'rthaṁ vihataṁ pramattaḥ. In this way, for maintaining the family members-kuṭumba, kuṭumba means family members*-he is in madness. Pramattaḥ. The very word is used here, pramattaḥ. In madness, he is forgetting his real business and he's simply wasting time in this way for maintaining family or society and friendship.

Now, that does not mean that Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending to neglect the, this family life or society and... No. He was family man. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a great king. He was ruling over. So it is not the question of neglect. But we must know that if we become more and more entangled in these affairs, then our real business will be lost. Our real business is how to get out of this entanglement, not to be more and more, I mean to say, implicated in this entanglement. That should be the point of view: to make the best use of a bad bargain. That should be the philosophy of life. We are put into this material existential condition, and we have to get out. But at the same time, so far, so long this material body is there, we have to maintain it also. Just like... The example is very nice. We can cite that you have to go to some place, and you have got a car. You have to take care of the car so far it can carry you to your destination, not that you simply take care of your car and you forget your destination and your own body. This is not your business. Similarly, we have to carry on our business. We have to... Because with this body...

*Suppose we are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness... So this body has to be maintained. Suppose my body is sick. I must go to the doctor, take help, and keep it very nicely. And I must take foodstuff so that the body is maintained nicely. That care should be taken. But not that we forget our real business. The same example: If we forget that I have to use this car and go to such and such destination and simply take care of the car, that is our foolishness. So society, friendship, love, and everything should be so adjusted that it may not disturb our real purpose of life. Not that we forget our real purpose of life and we become more and more entangled in the so*-called society, friendship and love. That is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja.

*Kuṭumba*-poṣāya viyan nijāyur na budhyate 'rthaṁ vihataṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ. The so-called materialistic advanced people, they are described herein as pramattaḥ, crazy. Sometimes we are designated by them that "These people, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they are crazy." And we think that they are crazy. So we do not know who is crazy. Therefore we have written a small pamphlet, "Who is Crazy?" Actually, one who has forgotten his real destination of life, he is crazy. He is wasting his life. He is spoiling his life. This is the only opportunity. But due to ignorance, they do not care for it. They think that "Life is going on like this. We are enjoying life." No. We should be very responsible and cautious. Otherwise, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na budhyate arthaṁ vihatam. Artham. They cannot understand, they are sacrificing their greatest wealth. Greatest wealth. This human form of life is the only opportunity to get out of the cycle of birth and death. If we again put into the cycle of lower animals, oh, it will take millions of years again to come again to this human form of life.

*So they do not know. Therefore they are described here as pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ. Sarvatra tāpa*-traya-duḥkhitātmā nirvidyate na sva-kuṭumba-rāmaḥ. Actually, they are experiencing every step miserable. It is not that by improving economic condition of life one has become very peaceful. Otherwise why there is war? Why there is struggle? This is... These things cannot be stopped. However you may improve materially, however you may improve your economic condition, the disturbance of the world, at least, birth, death, disease, and old age, cannot be checked. So if we do not understand these things very seriously and simply engage ourself in these material activities, although we are experiencing sarvatra tāpa-traya-duḥkhitātmā...

*Tāpa*-traya means three kinds of miseries: miseries inflicted by other persons or other living entities... That is, we have practical experience. We create so many friends also, so many enemies also. We do not go into the jungle because we know there are jungle animals who may attack us. So... Even at home there are bugs, there are mosquitoes; they also give us trouble. So there is a kind of trouble or misery inflicted by other living entities. That is called adhibhautika. Three kinds of miseries. Miseries offered by other living entities. We also offer, I mean to say, miseries to the other animals. Just like we have created our slaughterhouse. We send so many cows and animals for being slaughtered. Similarly, we are also attacked by other animals. So this is the law of nature. I am killing you, you are killing me. This is called adhibhautika. This is one class of misery. The other class of misery is due to this body and mind. Sometimes the body is sick; we don't feel very nice. Sometimes the mind is disturbed. That is also..., it may be due to other friend or other relative; so mind is not in order. This is called adhyātmika. So adhibhautika, adhyātmika. And other disturbance created by adhidaivaika. Daiva means on which we have no control. Just like earthquake, flood, or similar nature's disturbance on which we have no control.

*So here it is said, tāpa*-traya-duḥkhitātmā. Duḥkhi. That is our ignorance. We are always unhappy due to these three kinds of miseries inflicted by the laws of nature, but still, we think that we are very nice. But actually we are duḥkhitātmā, we are always sorry. Nirvidyate na kuṭumba-rāmaḥ. But there is no satiation because the only solace is that he is within the so-called friendship, love and society. That's all. Kuṭumba-rāmaḥ. Vitteṣu nityābhiniviṣṭa-cetā vidvāṁś ca doṣaṁ para-vitta-hartuḥ. And being too much attached to money matters, even learned persons, even very, I mean to say, advanced intellectually, they also try to steal others money. Para-vitta. Although it is a fault. Although it is fault. Vitteṣu nityābhiniviṣṭa-cetā. Nitya, perpetually too much attached to money. Nityābhiniviṣṭa. Niviṣṭa means profoundly attached. Profoundly attached to money. Vidvāṁś ca doṣaṁ para-vitta-hartuḥ. Although to take other money or to steal others' money is a fault It is a fault not only to the law of the state, but it is a fault to the law of the Supreme God also. You can avoid the state law by stealing, but you cannot avoid the law of the Supreme Person. You see, He can see everywhere. You can steal very stealthily so that police constables or police force cannot see. You are think that "I am doing very nicely. Nobody can see me." But you cannot avoid the eyes of the Supreme. So doṣa, it is fault. Either in this world or in the next world, it is faulty. But we are so accustomed, we are so, I mean to say, profoundly attached to money that we take illegally others' money. Para-vitta-hartuḥ. Pretyeha vāthāpy ajitendriyas. Although we know that in this world it is faulty and also next world it is faulty, but because we have our senses uncontrolled, we cannot change. Aśānta kāmo harate kuṭumbī. And the main attraction is all these nonsense things are done simply being attached to the so-called society, friendship, and love. That's all.

vidvān apītthaṁ danujāḥ kuṭumbaṁ

*puṣṇan sva*-lokāya na kalpate vai

*yaḥ svīya*-pārakya-vibhinna-bhāvas

tamaḥ prapadyeta yathā vimūḍhaḥ



*These actions are, I mean to say, performed even by so*-called learned man. Actually, one who is not spiritually learned, one who is not spiritually conversant, he is not a learned man. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā: [SB 5.18.12] "One who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he cannot have any good qualifications." Why? There are so many doctors, Ph Ds, and MAC, BAC, and very, very big man, and because they are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have no good qualification? One may question like that. But the answer is that they may be very learned man in the estimation of common man, but manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ, if a man is educated materially, without any spiritual understanding, without any Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then his field of activities is the mind. He cannot surpass the field of activities beyond the mind. Those who are grossly materialistic, they are working on the field of this gross body, senses. And those who are a little more advanced, the so-called philosophers, mental speculators, scientists, or many others, they are working on the mental plane. So unless you promote yourself to the platform of spiritual understanding, there cannot be any good qualification. Therefore harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. One who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he cannot have any good qualification because his field of activity is on the mental plane. As it is stated in the previous verse, being situated on the mental plane, even a learned man, I mean to say, transgresses the limits of law. There are so many.



*Of course, in India I have personal experience that many... Why in India? I have seen here also. In New York our boys wanted to purchase one house, and they had a few thousand dollars, and a group of lawyers, I mean to say, they made a plan to take out this ten thousand dollars from these boys, and... I know it personally. They are educated lawyers, but because they're acting on the mental plane, they are thinking that "By somehow or other, if we can grab this money and we shall divide amongst lawyers..." This is going on. The so*-called educated persons, for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can act less than even an animal. You see? So vidvān apītthaṁ danujāḥ kuṭumbaṁ puṣṇan sva-lokāya na kalpate vai. So they do not care for what is going in the next life. Tamaḥ prapadyeta yathā vimūḍhaḥ. They also fall into the darkness, the darkest region, or ordinary illiterate or ignorant persons also fall.

yato na kaścit kva ca kutracid vā

dīnaḥ svam ātmānam alaṁ samarthaḥ

*vimocituṁ kāma*-dṛśāṁ vihāra-

*krīḍā*-mṛgo yan-nigaḍo visargaḥ



And in this way they are becoming more and more entangled in this materialistic life. So he is concluding, he is asking his friends, tato vidūrāt parihṛtya daityā: "So therefore before you become entangled in this materialistic way of life, my dear friends born of demonic families..." Daityeṣu saṅgaṁ viṣayātmakeṣu: "Please give up the company of the demons." This is very essential, to have good society. A man may be very innocent, and if he is given chance for good society, he becomes a godly man. And if he's given inferior society, then he becomes a demon. So first thing is proposed by Prahlāda amongst his friends, that daityeṣu saṅgaṁ viṣayātmakeṣu: "Please give up the company of the demons." What demons? Now, viṣayātmakeṣu. Those who are too much attached for sense gratification. They are called demons. They have no other idea. Simply they are concerned with sense gratification and they do not know what is life, what is God, what is next life. They have no information. They are called demons.



*And another explanation of the demons and the demigods are there in the Śrīmad*-Bhagavad-gītā. Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are called demigods. Demigods, you don't think that simply the citizens or the residents of higher planet, they are called demigods. No. Even in this planet, those who are devotees of the Lord, those who accept the supremacy of God and those who are devotee, they are called demigods. And those who do not accept that, those who defy the existence of God, they are called demons. So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that tato vidūrāt parihṛtya daityā. Dūrāt: "From distance, from long distance, please give up the association of the demons." Upetya nārāyaṇam ādi-devaṁ sa mukta-saṅgair iṣito 'pavargaḥ: "And take the company of, accept the society of devotees." Then it will be very easy. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. Your desires and your propensities will be according to your society. Just like in English language it is said, "A man is known by his company." So we have to change our company.

*This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is another chance for changing the company, the society. Here in the temple, those who are coming and associating with us, now, we chant, we talk about God, we hear authoritative scriptures like Śrīmad*-Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and we distribute prasādam, and we chant, we dance, we restrict ourself, we restrain ourself. We do not allow illicit sex. We do not, I mean to say, take any intoxicants. We do not indulge in gambling. We do not indulge in meat-eating. Similarly, we are trying to form character and God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So therefore it is not that this society is opened for exploiting others. This society is for giving good association to the, I mean to say, misguided people, this society, so that by association they will gradually develop godly qualities. The godly qualities are already within you. It is dormant. Not that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being injected in you. Oh, that is not possible. You are more advanced in every way, you Americans. And because I have come from India with some poor knowledge, I am injecting something in your brain? No. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there. I am simply helping you to revive it. That's all.

*Just like a boy or a girl, when they are grown up, it is not that anybody has instructed them how to enjoy sex life. It is already there, but it was not, I mean to say, experienced when they were children. But with the grown up age the propensities automatically become manifest. Nobody has to learn these things. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a thing to be learned. It is to be revived. Just like the matches. There is already fire. If you simply rub the stick, the fire will come. It is not that ordinary stick, if you rub, there will be fire. The fire is already there. Similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that you have to change your association: "My dear daityas, boys of the demons, please change your asso... Give up the association of the demonic people, and please take the association of nārāyaṇa*-parā, those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, or God conscious." Upetya nārāyaṇam ādi-devaṁ sa mukta-saṅgair iṣito 'pavargaḥ: "If you take up that association, then gradually you will be advanced to the highest goal of achievement or spiritual life." So in this way please try to understand us. Don't misunderstand us. And we shall try to serve you with our greatest service motive. And in the meantime, if you have got any question, you can ask. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question? Yes?

Umāpati: Swamijī, is there degrees of Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I thought of an example of walking through a dark tunnel and it's getting lighter and lighter and all of a sudden you're out in light. Is there degrees of this?



Prabhupāda: Degrees of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Umāpati: Yes. Do you work up to it and then all of a sudden achieve it or is it blackness up to light?



Prabhupāda: Yes. There are degrees according to the degrees of understanding. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is accepted immediately, there is no question of degrees. But that acceptance is not possible in a second or in a minute. But if it is accepted, that "This is the nicest thing," then there is no question of degrees; it is immediately realized also. Just like there is an example that one king, he joined with the demigods to fight with the demons. He helped. And the demigods were very pleased with that king, and the demigods liked to give him some benediction, material benediction, that "You have helped us so much; *so we want to give you something. What do you want?" So he first of all asked that "How long my duration of life is there?" So they replied, "Oh, your life is not very long. It is for so many hours now." So he immediately took the opportunity and took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is a very nice example. That means within very short time he realized Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And this Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, this was heard by Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was cursed by a brāhmaṇa that he would die within seven days. So he simply heard this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam for seven days very seriously, and he was fully conscious of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he described also the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to Mahārāja Parīkṣit for seven days only. He also became fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. So it is a thing which is not material. In material calculation one has to wait. But here, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. According to the degree of surrender, Kṛṣṇa consciousness becomes revealed. The degree is in my hand. If I surrender fully, immediately, then Kṛṣṇa consciousness is aroused immediately. If the degree of surrender... (end)





751212SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.10

-

Vṛndāvana, December 12, 1975



Harikeśa: Translation: "Money is so dear that one conceives that money is sweeter than honey, and who can give up the desire of accumulating such money, especially in the household life? The thieves, the professional soldiers, or the mercantile community try to acquire money by risking the very life."



Prabhupāda:



*ko nv artha*-tṛṣṇāṁ visṛjet

prāṇebhyo 'pi ya īpsitaḥ

yaṁ krīṇāty asubhiḥ preṣṭhais

taskaraḥ sevako vaṇik

[SB 7.6.10]



*So here is one condemnation, that taskaraḥ, sevakaḥ and vaṇik. Similarly, there is another verse in Bhagavad*-gītā, striyaḥ vaiśya tathā śūdra. So stri śūdra quality, vaṇik quality, they are very backwards. So here it is said, sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham. Professor Marshall, he has given reason for economic development: the family affection. Unless one has got family affection, he is not interested in money. So therefore I sometimes say that these hippies, they are little advanced because they have no affection for family and they have no affection for money also. This is... In the other way, these are good qualification: no interest, no affection. Everyone is working on account of family affection, sneha-pāśair. He has got wife and children, and he requires money to make the family happy. So..., and for maintaining the family, he requires money. Ato gṛheṣu sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam.



*This world is going on, this material (world) is going on the principle of sense gratification, puṁsaḥ striya mithunī*-bhāvam. Everyone is hankering after sex life, man and woman. This is the beginning of material life. In the Vaikuṇṭha-loka there are thousands times beautiful women and thousand times strong men (noise in background) (aside:) Where is this sound coming? ...but there is no sex desire. This is Vaikuṇṭha life. Here in this material world, as soon as there is strong man, as soon as there is beautiful woman, then there is sex impulse. In the Vaikuṇṭha world there is no such thing, because they are so much absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that sex life is very insignificant. There is no sex life in the Vaikuṇṭha realm. But in this material world, the sex life is the basic principle of pleasure.

*puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī*-bhavam etat

*tayor mitho hṛdaya*-granthim āhuḥ

*ato gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair

janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti

[SB 5.5.8]



*So when they are united, then the attraction for man or attraction for woman becomes very, very strong. Then it requires gṛha, apartment, home. Then it requires field, land, because land is the means of livelihood. Ato gṛha*-kṣetra. Then children, then friends. In this way he becomes implicated. Moho 'yam. These things are not required, but out of illusion he is thinking that "These things will give me protection, life and pleasure." That is explained in the previous verse: sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham. He becomes too much entangled and captivated by this family affection. So therefore in the Vedic civilization, from the very beginning of life the brahmacārī is educated not to be attracted by family life, very strictly. Even though he is educated so, if he is found unable, then he is allowed to marry. That also not for many years. To remain in the household life for twenty-five years, then compulsory, I mean to say, separation, pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Then when the mind is settled up, he is awarded sannyāsa. This is the system.



*So on account of this deep affection for maintaining family, everyone is risking life. The example is given here that taskaraḥ. There are many professional thieves, any country, India also. They are family men*-not they are loafers-but their business is to steal. Their business is to steal. Why? They steal, they know it is risky,. He has heard it that "If you steal you'll be arrested, you'll be put into jail." Knowledge is gathered by hearing and by seeing. Hm? In Hindi it is called 'dekha śuna'-dekhavyair śunavyair, that "Have you seen or heard it?" That is experience. So thief knows he has heard it from lawbooks that stealing is not good, and from religious scripture also, that "It is sinful. Do not commit theft. Do not become criminal." But still he does, at the risk of ad At night he goes in the house of rich man and risk his life. Especially in Western countries, there is fire gun, and trespassers, even without permission, if anyone enters anyone's house, he can kill him. Is it not the law in your country? Trespassing? So there is risk of life, but he has entered the house for stealing. And why stealing? The family affection. That is the impetus for economic development. The Professor Marshall, the economist, he has given the definition, that "Wherefrom the economic development begins? By family affection." Or by sex attraction. So this earning money, there are so many smugglers, so many illicit businessmen, black market, they are risking their lives to get money. The purpose is when one becomes too much attached to family life and too much devoted to maintain it, he doesn't care. He has to earn money, some how or other, even risking life. Even risking life.

*So taskaraḥ. Who risks his life? First of all taskaraḥ, thieves. And the next? Taskaraḥ sevakaḥ. Sevakaḥ, servant. Still, in India, in the, some district, there was a servant of mine, he belonged to that... There are professional class of servant, they voluntarily sell themselves to the master: "Sir, I'll require five hundred rupees, and if you advance me this five hundred rupees I shall remain lifelong your servant." Still you get. Formally there were slaves, slave trade, but..., you get it still. You advance, the servant class, śūdra class-nowadays may not be five hundred*-you advance five thousand, you can purchase. There will be agreement. That is law court, that "He has to work lifelong." And, specially the professional soldiers, nowadays the economic activities are so..., varieties. One of our disciples' son, he has accepted the service of a diver. He enters into the ocean. This is his service. Sometimes they accept the service of coming down from the aeroplane, paracy... What is called? Parachute. Fall down. They are forced, from three miles up. These are all risky things. At any moment... Of course, at any moment there is death, that is a fact, but people voluntarily accept these kind of services. For what purpose? For getting money. And what for money? For sense gratification. And where is the sense gratification? In family.

*So actually, if one becomes too much attached to family life and one has to become*-this is the way-then has to earn money by risking life. He has to earn money. Similarly, the vaṇik, mercantile community, they also risk imprisonment by so many illegal activities. So formerly, these classes of men were after money. The higher class, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they were very, I mean to say, pious. They did not do anything for risking life for earning money. The brāhmaṇa, they were trained up not to earn money, but to learn how to become self-controlled, śama damas satyam, how to speak truth, or how to understand the Absolute Truth. Then cleanliness, śama dama satyaṁ śaucam. Titikṣa, how to become tolerant. Ārjava, simple. Jñānam, fully aware of all kinds of knowledge. Vijñānam, practical application of knowledge. So then āstikyam. Āstikyam means to accept the authority of the śāstra. That is called āstik. That is theism. Theism means just like Veda, one who accepts the authority of Vedas, he is called āstik. And one who does not accept the authority of the Vedas, he is called nāstik. Āstik and nāstik.

*According to Vedic civilization, one who does not follow the Vedic principle, he is called nāstik. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained about the Buddhist. Buddhists, they do not believe in the Vedic injunction, or the Muslims. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika. Buddhists are called nastik, atheist. Why? Veda nā māniyā: he does not believe in the Vedas. Veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika. Vedāśraya nāstikya*-vāda bauddhake adhika. But a person, hypocrite, who accepts the Vedas but he preaches atheism... Just like you are praying that śūnyavādi, nirviśeṣa śūnyavādi, pāścātya deśa tāriṇe. These two, very dangerous position, nirviśeṣa. The Buddhists, they say there is no God, śūnyavādi. "Everything, at the end, everything is zero. You have got this body. When this body is finished, then everything becomes zero." Because they do not believe in the soul, not in God. There are many nāstik. Vasu bhūta sa dehasya kuta pūrna... bhavet: "The body, I see it is burnt into ashes. Where is life? There is no life. There is no soul." So this is bauddhya-vāda, śūnyavāda-everything becomes zero. And the vedāśraya nāstikya-vāda, the Māyāvādīs, they do not say there is no God, because in the Vedas there is God. So they do not say directly, but they say, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, no leg, no hand. He cannot talk, He cannot eat." Then what remains? He is making zero, God, zero, by negative definition-"He has no head, He has no... And he has no leg." So both of them are zero, advocate of zero. But one directly says, "No, there is no God. Everything is zero." And these Māyāvādīs, nirviśeṣa-vādi, they say the same thing-zero-but in a different way. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that these Māyāvādīs, zero-vādis, they are more dangerous than the bauddha. Vedāśraya nāstikya-vāda. All these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they are very learned, but they'll never accept that God has form. They say it is kalpanā, it is imagination. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has designated them very, very dangerous, these Māyāvādīs. He has therefore strictly forbidden, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] If you hear this Māyāvādī speaking, then your future is doomed. You are finished. Because as soon as you have become infected with the Māyāvāda philosophy, it will take millions of years to come to the platform of devotional service. It is so dangerous. Māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Sarva-nāśa means everything is finished when you become godless, or you think yourself as you are God. The Māyāvādīs do that. They accept God, Kṛṣṇa, as God, but Kṛṣṇa's body is māyā. He has assumed a form, with a body which is created by māyā, just like our body is created by māyā.

*That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*This body is given by the material nature at the direction of..., by the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Because the nature is working by the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Nature is not independent. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. So īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, as Supersoul, He is in the core of my heart, sitting with me. I am also in the heart. And I am desiring, and Kṛṣṇa is fulfilling my desire. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Smṛtiḥ, Kṛṣṇa gives a body, by the living entity: "You wanted to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination-now take this body of a hog. You can eat even stool. I give you the facility." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam. "Now, here you have got this body, you eat stool." Smṛtir jñānam. In this way we are going on, life after life. We are creating different types of body. This is called seasonal changes. Just like there is tree, and every season there are fruits. The fruits, they are undergoing six kinds of transformation. First of all it is just like a small bud, or flower, then grows into a green fruit, then it is ripened fruit, then there is seed, then it is completely ripened, then falls down and finished. The fruit is going on, these six kinds of transformation, but the tree is standing. Similarly, as living entity we are permanent, and according to our karma, fruitive result of our karma, we are getting different body. So I am steady, as spirit soul. My bodies are changing, seasonal changes. But Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Because the fruit is grown, stays for some time, then dwindles, then vanishes, that does not mean the tree is finished. This is a crude example. So this change of body is there on account of presence of the Supersoul. He is noting down. He doesn't require to note down, but He notes that "This living entity wants this kind of facility." So each and every body means a kind of facility for fulfilling our desires. So that desire is fulfilled by Kṛṣṇa. He is within our heart. He is giving, has given full independence. "Desire Whatever you desire, I will give you." Ye yathā mām prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11].



So for fulfilling our desires... In the morning we were talking on the street about desire. So desire cannot be stopped. Desireless, it is not possible, because we are living entity; *we must have desires. But this kind of desires we are proposing: "My Lord, give me a facility for fulfilling these desires." So that means you get a particular type, and these desires are generated on account of our different association*-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if we associate with sattva-guṇa, then we get a body like the demigods.

*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*In this way it is going on, vāsanā. Therefore we have to become vāsanā-less-without any vāsanā, means without any material desires. Vāsanā cannot... It is therefore not actually to make it null and void, but to make it purified. That is the aim of human life: to purify our desires. That purification is possible by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If you simply desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa, then that is really desirelessness. Desirelessness means not to become without desire. You desire to serve Kṛṣṇa, then these material desires will automatically finish. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. So you fix up your mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then non*-Kṛṣṇa desires will be finished. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa. Everything will be there: the hands will be there, the legs will be there, the eyes will be there, the ears will be there-everything will be there. But if you change your desire, they will be purified. It is not to make it null and void. No. The hand is there, but if you engage your hand in cleansing the temple, then you are transcendental. If your... If you walk to go to the temple, then your desire for walking will be spiritual. If you smell the flower offered to the Deity, then your desire for smelling so many scented things will be finished. If you eat prasādam, then your desire for going to the restaurant and making satisfy..., satisfaction of the tongue will be finished. Therefore if we simply desire eating, sleeping, mating-everything, even mating also... If you desire that "If I can beget a child who will be Kṛṣṇa conscious," then you have sex life; otherwise stop it. If you take this responsibility that you will beget a child who will be Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can produce thousands of children, allowed; otherwise don't become mother and father. This is śāstra. Don't become. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta. Why? That is the duty. Make your children Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your duty is all right. Otherwise, don't become father and mother.



*So desireless means when we don't desire anything material. Simply desire to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Then it is nirmala, purified. And the, what is the function of the purified senses? Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. When your..., there is no more material desires, none of your senses are engaged in anything except Kṛṣṇa's service, this is purification. And in that purified state, when your senses are purified by this way, then you can render service to Kṛṣṇa. That service is accepted. Then patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati tad aham aṣnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. In that stage of transcendental position, that is bhakti. Everything you offer to Kṛṣṇa, He'll eat, with a great relish, "Oh, it is very nice." Just like Vidura(?) was offering the skin of the banana, and Kṛṣṇa was eating. He was so much absorbed in Kṛṣṇa thought, Kṛṣṇa came to his house, and in great ecstasy he was opening the banana, and the skin was being offered to Kṛṣṇa and the pulp was thrown away. But Kṛṣṇa was eating that skin. Because yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. Kṛṣṇa can eat anything, He is all-powerful. Even if you give the skin or the pulp, it doesn't matter. But it must be yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. The real thing is bhakti. So this is, when you are bhakta, then you are desireless. Otherwise desire cannot be finished. That is not possible. The Māyāvādī philosophers say you become desireless. It is not possible. Desire can be purified in connection with service of Kṛṣṇa.

*So the whole idea is that our desires, ko nv artha*-tṛṣṇām... Artha-tṛṣṇām meens desiring for getting money, visṛjet. That is not possible. So long you are in this material world, one cannot give up these desires. Therefore I was saying these Europeans, American boys, they prefer to become hippies. That is another process of desirelessness-don't want. They are coming from rich man's house, but they don't want. That is a desireless, but it is not properly utilized. Now they have got this opportunity: how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are advancing so quickly. So desirelessness is not possible. Desire there will be. When we change our consciousness, desire is transferred for Kṛṣṇa's service, that is perfect life.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.





760626SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.10

-

New Vrindaban, June 26, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Money is so dear that one conceives of money as being sweeter than honey. Therefore, who can give up the desire to accumulate money, especially in household life? Thieves, professional servants (soldiers) and merchants try to acquire money even by risking their very dear lives."



Prabhupāda:



*ko nv artha*-tṛṣṇāṁ visṛjet

prāṇebhyo 'pi ya īpsitaḥ

yaṁ krīṇāty asubhiḥ preṣṭhais

taskaraḥ sevako vaṇik

[SB 7.6.10]



*So, the beginning of instruction was kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. This material world, beginning, those who are not trained up, their beginning is hankering after union for sex. And puṁsāṁ striya mithuni*-bhāvam, this is the material world, attraction, and when they are united the attraction increases, we have already discussed. In this way our attraction for material wealth, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair [SB 5.5.8]. In this way material possessions, material facilities, we increase. Modern civilization is that. They are simply increasing material wants. The process is pravṛttir eṣaṁ bhūtānāṁ nivṛttes tu mahā-phalaṁ. Natural tendency is, because we have come to enjoy this material world... Conditioned soul means we wanted to enjoy this material world, not to serve anyone. Although our constitutional position is to serve, but artificially we want to give up service and we want to enjoy. That is material disease. So gradually, if we want to enjoy material world, then we require money. Money is the via media for enjoyment of material world. People are working so hard, day and night, just to get money because money is the source or the means of sense enjoyment. That is the disease, sense enjoyment.



*But actually our life, especially in the human life we should be sober to understand... That has already been explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that this sense enjoyment, it can be obtained in any form of life. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha*-yogena dehinām. Just this morning we were discussing about mosquito. The mosquito is so tiny, a little slap, immediately finished. But he has got all the facilities of sense enjoyment. We have to study nature in this way. You'll find so many different varieties of insects come in light. In your country it is not so, but in our country, tropical climate, hundreds and thousands of varieties of insects, they come. There are eleven hundred thousand varieties of insects. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Kṛmayo means insects. They are one million and one hundred thousand varieties. How many you have seen? But there are so many. So you'll find they have got all equipment for sense gratification. Even the smallest, full-stop-like insect. So we were discussing about the mosquito. The mosquito, as soon as he sits down, any part of your body, immediately he injects his, that nozzle, and within a second sucks the blood. Immediately. And if you allow two seconds, then his belly is filled up with blood. Just see the facility. So this life, this mosquito life is that there was strong desire to drink blood, so nature has given the facility, all right. But the body is very, very small. The mosquito, if the body would have been very large, then it will kill every man. So he has been offered a very small, tiny body so that... His desire is to suck blood, but it cannot suck blood very much. The mosquito, bugs, there are so many. This is called adhibhautika. Adhibhautika means we are troubled by other living entities. These bugs, this mosquito, and many others. Just like you are passing on the road, a dog comes, barks and... So this is called adhibhautika; adhyātmika, pertaining to the body, mind and other living entities; and adhidaivika, offered by nature. There is always trouble.

So the point is that actually we do not require things for sense gratification, especially in this human form of life. That we have enjoyed. Even a mosquito is also enjoying, the bug is also enjoying. The arrangement is so nice by nature's arrangement. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everyone has got the facilities for sense enjoyment. Why not human being? Human being is developed consciousness, he has got better facilities. But the human being's business is not to indulge in sense gratification.

sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

*deha*-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ



*This is described. So don't waste your time. Don't waste your time, your valuable time. Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction is very nice. If you simply waste your time simply for sense gratification, it is waste time. What is that verse? Tat*-prayāso na kartavyo. For sense gratification, do not endeavor. Tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. If you simply waste your time for sense gratification, then your valuable life, the time duration of your life is being wasted. Wasted because you have already one standard of your sense gratification, that is arranged by nature, by God. Be satisfied with that. Do not try to develop. The modern civilization is how to develop the facility of sense gratification. This is modern civilization. For spiritual life this should be, rather, whatever facilities we have got, we have to curtail, not to increase. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Gosvāmīs, they were ministers. But when they went to Vṛndāvana they curtailed-nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **-curtailing the hours of sleeping, the quantity of eating. And mating, there was no question.



*So nidrāhāra, this is spiritual life. This is called tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Spiritual life means purifying our existence. Unless we purify our existence, if we keep ourselves in the material condition, then we have to accept birth and death repeatedly. The human life is the opportunity that we can purify our existence. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. We have to become purified. Nirmalam means completely purified. That is the mission of human life. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1], purify. Why purification required? Because we are after happiness. That is our nature. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Everyone, we want happiness. But we are so blind that happiness in the material world is faced with so many other troubles. Just like I want to be happy, I am sitting peacefully, the mosquito will come and disturb me. The bugs will come, disturb me. The dogs will come, disturb me. And so many other... There will be some earthquake will disturb me, there will be some storm will disturb me. There will be some fever, disturb me. Some calamity will disturb me. So because all these disturbances are, this is nature's daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. That māyā is always ready to disturb us. Because to remind us that "You want to be happy in this material world, that is not possible. I shall disturb you always, in this way or that way." That we haven't got eyes to see, that we are being disturbed. But if we want undisturbed happiness then we have to purify our existence. That is wanted. It is for our interest. To become Kṛṣṇa conscious means that is our interest. Kṛṣṇa doesn't want that you become... Kṛṣṇa wants, but if you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, He has nothing to lose. But if we do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is, our chance is lost. This is the problem. So when Kṛṣṇa comes and He advises sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], it is for our interest. If we do that, then we become happy. Because we want happiness, so little tapasya. Just like if you want to cure your feverish condition you have to accept some rules and regulations ordered by the physician. If we want to cure, bhavauṣadhiḥ. So simple thing: tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Little tapasya. It is not very difficult. But if we undergo a little tapasya-no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication-little, not very... Now those who have given up these bad habits, they are not dying for want of these. But this little tapasya, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa... [SB 6.1.13].

*So, otherwise our propensity for sense gratification will increase, and for satisfying our sense gratification we require money, and for money they are risking their life. Yesterday our Pradyumna was speaking about the description of the factory. For some money they are going to the factory, hellish life. But money required, never mind hellish life. Going underneath the mine, at any moment the mine may collapse, and we risk life. Especially, here it is given that taskaraḥ sevako vaṇik. Taskaraḥ means thieves, they risk their life, enter into the house of another rich man, and he can shoot him immediately. There is dog, so many, but he risks his life for money. Taskaraḥ. Taskaraḥ means thieves, burglars, they risk their life. And sevaka. Sevaka, as soon as we become servant of some materialistic person, he'll extract, as much as possible, service in the factory. That is also very risky. We are not happy, sevaka. And vaṇik. Vaṇik means merchants. Sa vai vaṇik. They also risk their life. In European colonization, how much they risked life. When the Americans came here, how much they risked their life. So because you require money, we have to risk our life in so many ways. So the best thing is that we have to minimize our wants. We should be satisfied with the yāvad artha*-prayojana, as little as possible. Not that we shall starve. That is not recommended. But don't increase.

*So here in New Vrindaban we are trying to establish an ideal life*-plain living and advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real business. People, they do not know that Kṛṣṇa consciousness business is essential, imperative. We must take to it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. They do not know this. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Out of false hope they are trying to be happy materially. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir means external. External means this body. I am soul, I am within this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. So real I am within the body, but because we are misled, we are thinking, "I am the body." Just like this shirt and coat, if I think, "I am this shirt, I am this coat," that is misleading. Actually no, I am within the shirt and coat. So this requires knowledge. We get this knowledge that this body is not all in all. There is soul. As soon as the soul is out of the body it is a lump of matter. But in spite of all our experience we are interested only with this body. This is called ignorance. This is called ignorance. We know, we are seeing every day, we are reading in the śāstra everything, but still we are attached to this body and sense gratification, and that is spoiling our life. We should be interested as spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, as soul, my business is how to get out of this entanglement of repetition of birth and death and be situated in our original spiritual life, where eternal life, blissful life. That is our aim should be.

*But unfortunately, there is no such education. So in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are trying to give this education, a standard education, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

*bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasyājānato vidvāṁś

*cakre satvata*-saṁhitām

[SB 1.7.6]



*Poor people, they do not know what is their self*-interest, what is the aim of life. Therefore Vyāsadeva he is called vidvāṁs. Vidvāṁs means very learned. He has compiled the śāstra. Anartha, unnecessarily want. Wants we have increased. Now we, instead of wasting our time for increasing our unnecessary needs of life, we shall be satisfied with the bare necessities of life. Eating, sleeping, mating, we can minimize it. But don't, we don't say that you starve, you keep your body uncomfortably, and then fall sick, and then your Kṛṣṇa conscious business is hampered. No. Yavad-artha prayojana. Anāsaktasya viṣayān. Don't be attached to sense gratification. Satisfy senses as little as possible, which is essential, needed. It is not stopped. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa, anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. Don't be attached to the sense gratification. Just like eating, it is also a kind of sense gratification, to satisfy the tongue, satisfy the belly. But eating is also necessary if we want to maintain our body, and with the body you have to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Without maintaining the body, or disturbing the body, we cannot.



So everything can be adjusted. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness education. And we are trying to establish an ideal colony in New Vrindaban and other places. So I'm glad that in spite of all difficulties you are trying to... But do it nicely. Plain living, high thinking, that is required. It is not necessary that unnecessarily we increase objectives of sense gratification and be entangled. Minimize it and live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (end)



760627SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.11-13

-

New Vrindaban, June 27, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (leads chanting, etc.)



kathaṁ priyāyā anukampitāyāḥ

saṅgaṁ rahasyaṁ rucirāṁś ca mantrān

*suhrtsu tat*-sneha-sitaḥ sisunam

*kalakśaraṇaṁ anurakta*-cittaḥ



putrān smaraṁs tā duhitṝr hṛdayyā

bhrātṝn svasṝr vā pitarau ca dīnau

*gṛhān manojñoru*-paricchadāṁś ca

*vṛttīś ca kulyāḥ paśu*-bhṛtya-vargān



*tyajeta kośas*-kṛd ivehamānaḥ

*karmāṇi lobhād avitṛpta*-kāmaḥ

*aupasthya*-jaihvaṁ bahu-manyamānaḥ

*kathaṁ virajyeta duranta*-mohaḥ

[SB 7.6.11-13]



*"Translation: How can a person who is most affectionate to his family, the core of his heart being always filled with their pictures, give up their association? Specifically, a wife is always very kind and sympathetic and always pleases her husband in a solitary place. Who could give up the association of such a dear and affectionate wife? Small children talk in broken language, very pleasing to hear, and their affectionate father always thinks of their sweet words. How could he give up their association? One's elderly parents and one's sons and daughters are also very dear. A daughter is especially dear to her father, and while living at her husband's house she is always in his mind. Who could give up that association? Aside from this, in household affairs there are many decorated items of household furniture, and there are also animals and servants. Who could give up such comforts? The attached householder is like a silkworm, which weaves a cocoon in which it becomes imprisoned, unable to get out. Simply for the satisfaction of two important senses-the genitals and the tongue*-one is bound by material conditions. How can one escape?" Purport: In household affairs the first attraction is the beautiful and pleasing wife, who increases household attraction more and more. One enjoys his wife with two prominent sense organs, namely the tongue and the genitals. The wife speaks very sweetly. This is certainly an attraction. Then she prepares very palatable foods to satisfy the tongue, and when the tongue is satisfied one gains strength in the other sense organs, especially the genitals. Thus the wife gives pleasure in sexual intercourse. Household life means sex life (yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]). This is encouraged by the tongue. Then there are children. A baby gives pleasure by speaking sweet words in broken language, and when the sons and daughters are grown up one becomes involved in their education and marriage. Then there are one's own father and mother to be taken care of, and one also becomes concerned with the social atmosphere and with pleasing his brothers and sisters. A man becomes increasingly entangled in household affairs, so much so that leaving them becomes almost impossible. Thus the household becomes gṛham andha-kūpam, a dark well into which the man has fallen. For such a man to get out is extremely difficult unless he is helped by a strong person, the spiritual master, who helps the fallen person with the strong rope of spiritual instructions. A fallen person should take advantage of this rope, and then the spiritual master, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, will take him out of the dark well.



*Prabhupāda: So two ways*-one way is this entanglement, this kind of happy life, household life. People, 99.9%, they are after this happiness. It is described very nicely in this verse, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. The idea is that this material world, we are entangled with this body and anything belonging to the body. We are misconceiving that "This body I am, and anything in relation with the body is mine." That is going on in different name-family, society, community, nation, so on, so on, country. The basic principle is that "I am this body," and anything in relationship with this body, we are concerned with these two things. There are thousands and thousands of women, but one woman or one man with whom I have got bodily relationship, I think "She is my wife," "He is my husband." This is due to bodily relationship. And the attachment increases the more...



*The basic principle of instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja began that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very beginning of life, the children should be educated about bhāgavata*-dharma. If they are not educated from the very beginning of life, these are the chances of forgetting. Forgetting means to be subjected to the waves of māyā. There are different phases of māyā. One is attached to the family or he's attached to the animals, one is attached to the country, society, so on, so on. The attachment of this material world, it may be in different names. But the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means detachment. Therefore they are so nicely described here by Prahlāda. The real business is detachment of this material world. So long we'll have a pinch of attachment with this material world enjoyment, there is no possibility of perfection. For that pinch of little attachment, and we have to accept a body. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And as soon as we get body we become involved with so many things that we are preparing another next life.

*So here the verse is given, yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham [SB 7.9.45]. The real purpose of life is how to become detached from this material life. That is perfection. People are being educated how to become attached. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and so-called human civilization. But the thing can be made easy if we attach our mind to Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are actually doing. It is not that we are all liberated persons. We have got so many attachments to family, wife, country. But along with it, if we try to increase our attachment for Kṛṣṇa, automatically there will be detachment. Automatically. Without endeavoring separately. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ [SB 1.2.7]. Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. If we become engaged in bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*Iti puṁsārpita, all for Kṛṣṇa. Hear about Kṛṣṇa, chant about Kṛṣṇa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, not for others. Hearing and chanting Viṣṇu. Smaranam, remembering Kṛṣṇa. Arcanam, this is arcanam. Vandanam, offering prayers. Dāsyam, to act as His servant, to spread His glories, that is vandanam. Dāsyam. Sakhyam, to take Kṛṣṇa as most dear friend. For a friend, one friend can do anything. So dāsyam, sakhyam, ātma*-nivedanam. And Bali Mahārāja gave everything for Kṛṣṇa. Bali Mahārāja conquered even up to the heavenly kingdom. So Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu is always in favor of the demigods. They were in difficulty. So Vāmanadeva went to Bali Mahārāja for begging some land. So Bali Mahārāja agreed to give him land. In other words, by trick, Vāmanadeva took everything of Bali Mahārāja. He also gave everything.



*So this is bhakti*-mārga. If we follow these principles of bhakti-mārga we do not require to endeavor separately how to become detached. The detachment automatically follows. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ janayati āśu vairāgyam [SB 1.2.7]. Vairāgyam means detachment. The bhakti-yoga is known also as vairāgya. Vairāgya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya wrote verses about this vairāgya.

*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhari

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*Here is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu who is Kṛṣṇa Himself. He has come to teach us vairāgya*-vidyā. It is little difficult. It is very difficult for ordinary persons to understand this vairāgya-vidyā. Their business is how to increase attachment for this body, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to increase detachment for this material life. Therefore it is called vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā can be very easily achieved, just like it is recommended, vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ janayati āśu vairāgyam [SB 1.2.7], very soon, very soon. Janayati āśu vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca. Two things required in human life. One thing is jñānam, jñānaṁ-vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma sva-bhāva-jam. This jñānam means, beginning of jñāna means "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is jñāna. And as soon as one is situated in that platform of jñānam, it is easy. People are engaged everywhere for the benefit of this body. But if one understands, he come to the platform jñānam, then naturally he becomes detached, that "I am not this body. Why I am working so hard for this body?" Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam [SB 1.2.7]. Automatically... Two things are required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has many places, He has stressed on this, and by His life He is teaching jñānam and vairāgyam. One side jñānam, in His teaching to Rūpa Gosvāmī, teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī, teaching to, talking with Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, talking with Rāmānanda Rāya. We have given all these things in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So that is jñānam. And by His example in His own life, taking sannyāsa, He is teaching vairāgya. Jñāna and vairāgya, these two things are required.



So not all of a sudden we can be situated on the platform of jñānam and vairāgyam, but if we practice, it is possible. It is possible. Not that it is impossible. That is recommended:

vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



That is required. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for achieving jñānam and vairāgyam. If we become too much attached to this material world... And how we become attached? The vivid description is given by Prahlāda Mahārāja. The wife, the children, the house, the animals and servants, the furniture, the dress, and so on, so on, so on, so many things. People are working so hard, day and night, only for these things. Is there not (indistinct) nice bungalow, nice animal, nice, so many things we see? What for? To increase attachment. If we increase attachment, there is no question of being freed from this material bondage. So we have to practice this detachment. So this practicing, there are many recommendations, vairāgya.



tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



There are recommendations. Tapasya, this is called tapasya, to achieve vairāgya it requires tapasya. But the one thing is there, vāsudeva parayana.



kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

*vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]



The example is very... In the morning we see here every day, mist. And as soon as the sun rises, immediately finished, clear. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Kecit kevalayā bhaktyā, dhunvanti aghaṁ pāpaṁ nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.



*So there are so many items to understand this vairāgya*-vidyā or to practice. The first practice is brahmacarya, celibacy. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. So many items, but if one takes to vāsudeva bhakti... Vāsudeve bhagavati, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā [SB 6.1.15]. Kevalayā means only by bhakti process one can attain all success, jñāna-vairāgya. So you are situated, you are at least being trained up in bhakti-yoga, and if you strictly follow, dṛḍha-vratāḥ... Dṛḍha-vratāḥ, that is the word, dṛḍha-vratāḥ, with firm determination, then in one life we can learn this vairāgya-vidyā nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254] and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is possible. It is not impossible. But ordinarily it is very, very difficult. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja giving so many description, in detail, how we are becoming attached. But our real business is how to become detached. Unless we give up, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59], unless we have got the taste for the better thing, the inferior things we cannot give up. By cultivation of bhakti-yoga, by this process, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], we can get the taste of bhakti-yoga, then it is possible to give up this attachment for the material world. This is possible.

adau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-

*saṅgo 'tha bhajana*-kriyā

*tato 'nartha*-nivṛttiḥ syāt

tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ

athāsaktis tato bhāvas

(tataḥ premābhyudañcati)

sādhakānām ayaṁ premnaḥ

prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]



The real business is how to increase our love, proportional love for Kṛṣṇa. Then everything, proportionately, will come, and then our life will be successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



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*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.14

-

New Vrindaban, June 28, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: One who is too attached cannot understand that he is wasting his valuable life for the maintenance of his family. He also fails to understand that the purpose of human life, a life suitable for realization of the Absolute Truth, is being imperceptibly spoiled. However, he is very cleverly attentive to seeing that not a single farthing is lost by mismanagement. Thus although an attached person in material existence always suffers from threefold miseries, he does not develop a distaste for the way of material existence."



Prabhupāda:



kuṭumba poṣāya viyan nijāyur

na budhyate 'rthaṁ vihataṁ pramattaḥ

*sarvatra tāpa*-traya-duḥkhitātmā

*nirvidyate na sva*-kuṭumba-rāmaḥ

[SB 7.6.14]



*So more we become implicated in this material world, the more we suffer from the threefold miseries, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. But by the grace of māyā we forget them on account of our pleasing atmosphere in the family*-kuṭumbha-rāmaḥ. Therefore it is said ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. Those who are yogis... There are many different types of yogis. Of all of them, bhakta-yogis, ramante yoginaḥ anante. The difference between yogi and bhogī-there are two classes. Bhogī means those who are trying to enjoy this material world, they are called bhogī. And there is another word, rogī. Rogī means diseased. Neither yogi nor a bhogī. Yogi means transcendentalist, trying to go back to home, back to Godhead, they are called yogi. And those who are only interested with this material happiness, they are called rogī. So those who are yogis, they are first class.



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*"Of all the yogis," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad*-gatenāntarātmanā, "always thinking of Kṛṣṇa," śraddhāvān, "very faithful," bhajate mām, "always engaged in My service, he is first-class yogi."



*So our business is how to become yogi, bhakta*-yogi. That is the mission of life. Unfortunately, we are not given the opportunity. It is the duty of the guardians, family, natural guardian, father and mother, and political guardian, the government, the teacher, the guru; *it is the duty to give facility, facility for achievement of the highest goal of life. Unfortunately, it is always... But at the present moment, on account of Kali*-yuga, they do not know what is the aim of life, how the dependents should be trained up. It is the duty of the king to train up the citizens. This is... Everything is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the first business is how to lead men to the highest perfection of life. That is called siddhi. Siddhi means highest perfection of life. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. There are different kinds of siddhis. (noise in background) (aside:) What is that? Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. There are different kinds of siddhis. The yogis, the mystic yogis, they also try to possess some siddhi-animā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, īśitā, vaśitā. Eight kinds of siddhis. But such siddhis, all material.

*So in the modern age, advancement of material civilization, they also do not care for these siddhis, material siddhis. Just like laghimā. Laghimā*-siddhi, the yogis, they become so light that they can float in the air. So nowadays you have got airplane. The yogi can float alone in the air. Now five hundred passengers, they can float in the air. So there is no need of such yoga, yoga-siddhi. The science, the material science of craftsmanship, mechanical, they have done it. Or formerly these things were very magical. Still, the so-called yogis, they are trying to achieve such perfection. Sometimes they can float in the air, they can walk on the water, they can get anything they desire, prāpti. Prāpti, in my childhood there was my teacher. He said that he had his guru, a yogi. So he told me that his spiritual master, yogi, he inquired from his disciple, "What do you want to eat?" So he said that "We want to eat some pomegranate from Kabul." So he said, "Yes, you can get it. Go into the room and you'll find." So they found a bunch of pomegranate just fresh taken from the tree. This is called prāpti. The yogis, they can get all these facilities. Prāpti siddhi. Īśitā, they can keep anyone under his control. Īśitā, vaśitā... There are eight kinds of aṣṭa-siddhi. But that is not perfection of life. Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaja says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmi-sakali "aśānta" kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva "śānta" [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Bhukti means karmis, they are also wanting something, material success. Mukti, the jñānīs, they want liberation, to merge into the existence of Brahman. And siddhi, the yogis... So everyone wants something. Therefore they then you have to struggle for it. But kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta does not want anything. They simply want to be en-gaged in the service of the Lord. That is their satisfaction. That is the aim of life. Unfortunately we are not educated, we are not given training. Prahlāda Mahārāja's subject matter is kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very beginning of life, the children should be educated in bhāgavata-dharma. That is the subject matter.

*So he's explaining in different ways. Kuṭumba*-poṣāya viyan nijāyur na budhyate 'rthaṁ vihataṁ pramattaḥ. So without fulfillment of our life's mission, generally we become involved in maintaining the family, and all of a sudden death appears, then finished all our attempts. According to karma, we have to accept another body, maybe human body or not human body. In this way we become entrapped, and sarvatra tāpa-traya-duḥkhitātmā. Tāpa-traya, traya means three and tāpa means tribulation, suffering. So tāpa-traya, three kinds of tribulations: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Pertaining to the body, we feel so many troubles due to the body, due to the mind. Then adhibhautika, troubles offered by other living entities, and adhidaivika, troubles offered by nature or the demigods. In this way, sarvatra. It is not that in India there is tāpa-traya and in America there is no tāpa-traya. No, in America there is tāpa-traya. "All right, I shall go to the heavenly planets." No, there is also tāpa-traya. Anywhere you go within this material world, as soon as you get this material body, then tāpa-traya will be there.

*So therefore our mission of life is how to get out of this tāpa*-traya, and Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving description how we remain involved in tāpa-traya. Sarvatra tāpa-traya-duḥkhitātmā. Repeatedly, tāpa-traya, na nirvidyate sva-kuṭumba-rāmaḥ. Especially those who are family men, it is very difficult. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, after fiftieth year, one should give up the family responsibility, vānaprastha. From vana, vana means forest. And from vana the word vana has come. Prastha means "who has gone." Pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Vanaṁ vrajet means to free from all family responsibility and prepare for going back to home, back to Godhead. But those who are too much attached to family life, na nirvidyate, being repeatedly frustrated, repeatedly they are put into trouble. Still. But if one wants regular advancement of spiritual life, he must retire at the age of fifty. That is Vedic civilization. Not that unless one is killed, he's not going to retire. Even great personalities like Mahatma Gandhi, he was seventy-eight years, and still he would not retire from this... Political life means greater family life. A family man is interested with his family members, and a political leader is interested with the whole, a group of family. The principle is the same. Ordinary family man, he's looking after three, four members of the family, and a political leader is thinking that he's responsible for so many millions of men. The idea is the same: the extended family. But extended or diminished family, sva-kuṭumba-rāmaḥ, he's thinking, "I have to do something for them." But when death comes, you are unable to do anything, you have to immediately leave the scene, and according to the laws of nature you'll have to accept a body according to your karma. This is the law of nature.

*So we should be very careful. This education is recommended by Prahlāda Mahārāja, should be given, just like these children, they are getting education, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It will not go in vain. It is being impressed within the mind. Very fortunate children, they have got this association. Automatically, they are being trained up. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's mission. He was talking among his class friends who were as small as these boys were there, five years old. So they were very much eager to play, but Prahlāda Mahārāja was asking them, "No, don't waste your time. Just be trained up in bhāgavata*-dharma or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Bhāgavata-dharma means Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



760629SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.15

-

New Vrindaban, June 29, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: If a person too attached to the duties of family maintenance is unable to control his senses, the core of his heart is immersed in how to accumulate money. Although he knows that one who takes the wealth of others will be punished by the law of the government, and by the laws of Yamarāja after death, he continues cheating others to acquire money."



Prabhupāda:



*vitteṣu nityābhiniviṣṭa*-cetā

*vidvāṁś ca doṣaṁ para*-vitta-hartuḥ

pretyeha vāthāpy ajitendriyas tad

*aśānto*-kāmo harate kuṭumbī

[SB 7.6.15]



*So, vitteṣu nityābhiniviṣṭa*-cetā, if we become too much attached for getting money, that is the material world. There is no satiation. Idaṁ prāpta, that Bhagavad-gītā word: "I have got so much money, now my bank balance is so much, and I shall get further money and my bank balance will be like this." This is the demonic mentality. We shall require money, yāvad artha-prayojanam, whatever is absolutely necessary, that much money I must get. That is order. That is an order. We cannot take more than what is necessary. This is actually spiritual communism. If everyone thinks that "Everything belongs to God and I am son of God, so I have got right to enjoy the property of my Father, but as much as I require, not more than that," this is spiritual communism, bhāgavata communism.



*That is stated there in the Seventh Canto by instruction by Nārada Muni: gṛhastha, householder, or anyone. By nature, you'll see, if you throw one bag of food grains anywhere, so many birds will come. But as soon as their belly is filled up they will go away. They will not take more than that for tomorrow. Sañcaya. That is nature. They know, "Tomorrow we shall get again somewhere grains. There is no need of stocking." This is nature you'll find amongst animal kingdom. Similarly, we should also learn that Kṛṣṇa has given us this belly, so He has provided also the eatables. That is real philosophy. It is not recommended that you get more than what you require. No. Yāvad artha*-prayojanam. Especially for Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. Everyone has got right to claim what is absolutely required. In the Bhāgavata, it is stated if anyone takes more than that, then he's a thief and he's punishable. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1], everything is God's property. Either on this land or in the sky or in the water, everything is God's property. And Kṛṣṇa claims also, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. In the Vedic version, you'll find, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. This philosophy can solve all the problems of the world. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever is given to you, you enjoy, what is allotted to you. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. Do not touch other's property. But we violate this law, therefore we suffer. So it is stated here, pretya iha, if we (indistinct) death. Unfortunately, the modern civilization is keeping people in so darkness that they have no idea that there is a life after death. Just like animal, "Let us enjoy, beg, borrow, steal and enjoy." No. That is not good. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "No it is not good." Prahlāda Mahārāja... Everyone will say, those who are in knowledge. Yato ātmano ayam, kleśada. You can do whatever you like, but you'll get a body which may be more troublesome than the present body. In the present body we have got so many troubles, adhyātmika, adhidaivika, and if we do not work properly, then we shall get another body, more troublesome. More troublesome.

*So aśānta*-kāmo harate kuṭumbī. This family attachment is so strong that a person who is not satiated, he simply gathers money. On one side, they do not believe in the next life, and if you ask him that "Why you are gathering so much money?" he'll say that "My grandson will enjoy it." They say like that. But if you don't believe in the transmigration of the soul, then who is coming to be your grandson and son you are accumulating money? So there is no logic, there is no argument. But people do so. Anyāyenartha-sañcayan. Anyāyena, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that is demonic principle. So a gṛhastha, of course, required to accumulate some money because he's living with family, but so far brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsī is concerned, they should not keep any money. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was so strict that his personal servant, one day he was taking after eating a little, what is called, myrobalum (indistinct), haritaki. So one day he was giving myrobalum (indistinct) and Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired, "Where you got this myrobalum (indistinct)?" So he said, "I kept it from yesterday." "Oh, you are stocking?" He immediately criticized him. "You are stocking? This is not good." So this principle... Of course, even if we do not stock, don't think that we'll starve. Kṛṣṇa has provided. But we should be depending on Kṛṣṇa. There is no anxiety. Actually, there is no anxiety. We have experienced this. I was alone for many years, but not a single day I was starving. No. There was food.

*So it is a fact, even for the animals, even for the beasts. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended that, that "Do not be anxious." That verse, now I forget, it is in the Second Canto... I forget that verse, but Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "Don't stock, don't beg. Kṛṣṇa will provide everything, everyone." So except gṛhastha, the brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsī, they should simply depend on Kṛṣṇa. Prahlāda Mahārāja has already explained it in many ways, that there is no need of endeavoring for so*-called economic development. Our energy should be only utilized how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. To advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to increase our love for Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760630SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.16

-

New Vrindaban, June 30, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



vidvān apītthaṁ danujāḥ kuṭumbaṁ

*puṣṇan sva*-lokāya na kalpate vai

*yaḥ svīya*-pārakya-vighinna-bhāvas

tamaḥ prapadyeta yathā vimūḍhaḥ

[SB 7.6.16]



"O my friends, sons of demons! In this material world, even those who are apparently advanced in education have the propensity to consider, 'This is mine, and that is for others.' Thus they are always engaged in providing the necessities of life to their families in a limited conception of family life, just like uneducated cats and dogs. They are unable to take to spiritual knowledge; instead, they are bewildered and overcome by ignorance."



Prabhupāda: Purport.



*Pradyumna: In human society there are attempts to educate the human being, but for animal society there is no such system, nor are animals able to be educated. Therefore animals and unintelligent men are called vimūḍha, or ignorant, bewildered, whereas an educated person is called vidvān. The real vidvān is one who tries to understand his own position within this material world. For example, when Sanātana Gosvāmī submitted to the lotus feet of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his first question was 'ke āmi', 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya'. In other words, he wanted to know his constitutional position and why he was suffering from the threefold miseries of material existence. This is the process of education. If one does not ask, "Who am I? What is the goal of my life?" but instead follows the same animal propensities as cats and dogs, what is the use of his education? As discussed in the previous verse, a living being is entrapped by his fruitive activities, exactly like a silkworm trapped in its own cocoon. Foolish persons are generally encaged by their fruitive actions (karma) because of a strong desire to enjoy this material world. Such attracted persons become involved in society, community and nation and waste their time, not having profited from having obtained human forms. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, great leaders, politicians, philosophers and scientists are all engaged in foolish activities, thinking, "This is mine, and this is yours." The scientists invent nuclear weapons and collaborate with the big leaders to protect the interests of their own nation or society. In this verse, however, it is clearly stated that despite their so-called advanced knowledge, they actually have the same mentality as cats and dogs. As cats, dogs and other animals, not knowing their true interest in life, become increasingly involved in ignorance, the so-called educated person who does not know his own self-interest or the true goal of life becomes increasingly involved in materialism. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advises everyone to follow the principles of varṇāśrama-dharma. Specifically, at a certain point one must give up family life and take to the renounced order of life to cultivate spiritual knowledge and thus become liberated. This is further discussed in the following verses.





Prabhupāda: You can explain, somebody else, you can explain.



*Pradyumna: This verse? In the material world, one who is vidvān... Vidvān means one who possesses knowledge. But one who possesses material knowledge, if he still makes the discrimination between "This is svīya*-pārakya vibhinna-bhāvas," who makes the discrimination, vibhinna, a division between "this is mine and this is yours..." He sees everything in society as a competition-"This belongs to me and that belongs to you"-instead of having the conception of īśāvāsya, that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, everything is pervaded by Kṛṣṇa, everything is created by Kṛṣṇa, everything is controlled by Kṛṣṇa; *therefore everything is to be enjoyed by Kṛṣṇa. This is the process of analysis, that because everything is created by God, everything is controlled by God, therefore everything should be enjoyed by God. But if he does not have that conception and he thinks that "I, by the sweat of my brow, have produced this," that "I am controlling it," that "I have it under my control, even for a limited time, and therefore I can enjoy it, and you are enjoying something and I am enjoying something and I should be envious after what you have, and you should be envious after what I have," this conception of life... In this material world, even those who are apparently advanced in education have the propensity to consider "This is mine and that is for others," and therefore individually and collectively, among ourselves having this conception and among nations having this conception... That the vidvān, or the learned people in society, which today are the scientists, for the same conception, instead of realizing the glories of me who am controlling a part of it and you who are controlling a part of it and then making a division and a clash, competition, war, competition among ourselves individually*-capitalism, communism, and among ourselves collectively-national wars, international wars-such a person is in an animal conception, vimūḍha. He's said to be bewildered.



So there are two things here: vidvān, educated, very intelligent; and vimūḍha, or very stupid, unintelligent. So even though one possesses all material knowledge, if his knowledge is used for the wrong end, if it is used to advance oneself in the material conception of life instead of the spiritual, divisive instead of unifying by understanding the supreme control of God over everything, Kṛṣṇa conscious, īśāvāsya, then he is said to be vimūḍha, stupid. They are unable to take to spiritual knowledge. Instead they are bewildered and overcome by tamaḥ prapadyeta yathā vidmūḍhaḥ. So providing with all necessities of life, using his education, kuṭumbam, for supplying the family members instead of tamaḥ prapadyeta yathā vimūḍhaḥ, he enters darkness just like an animal or a stupid person.

Prabhupāda: We have seen practically in India. During the partition days, when the Britishers left India, they gave a parting kick by dividing Pakistan and India. So I have seen in my own eyes there was fighting between the Hindus and Muslims for at least one week in Calcutta, and heaps of dead bodies there were. So the fighting was between Hindu and Muslim, but when they died the body is piled up and it was taken for burning or to throw away. So the land remained there and these people fighting between themselves, that "This is mine, this is mine," they finished their life. The land remained where it was there.



*So this is called illusion. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8], "It is mine, it is yours." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Why they should think like that? Bhagavān, in the Bhagavad*-gītā He says that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ: [Bg. 14.4] "All the forms of different grades of life," sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir, "the material world is the mother and I am the father." Very simply understanding. Everything is grown from the material nature. Our life is also from there. The grass is growing, and the grass is eaten by the animals, and then animals beget another animal, or vegetables we also eat and by eating we live. Then by eating we get our semina. Then we beget another children, another child. So actually we are born, every one of us born and nourished by this material nature. This is a fact, one can see. So who is the father? The mother is there, material nature, and we are children there. There must be father.

*So the father's property everyone can enjoy, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. Just like these children, father, mother, whatever gives, "My dear child, you eat it." Similarly if we think in that philosophy, our process, this Deity worship, the father or the supreme maintainer gives us prasādam, we take it. Actually fruits, flowers or grains, it is given by Kṛṣṇa. We cannot produce it. So how nice system it is, that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Yours, You have given us. So first of all You eat." This is love. Kṛṣṇa is not hungry. Kṛṣṇa can have sumptuous food. He is the maintainer of everyone. So this is how good feeling, very reasonable. Any man with some sense, he'll take it very seriously, "Yes, everything given by God, Kṛṣṇa. So let us offer it first of all to Kṛṣṇa." And there is no fear that Kṛṣṇa will eat everything and then we shall have nothing to eat. It is not like that. Kṛṣṇa's eating is a different way. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti. We sing this song every day:

*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti,

*ānanda*-cinmaya sad-ujjvala vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*Kṛṣṇa can eat any way. Just like we can eat only putting the foodstuff through the mouth. No. Kṛṣṇa can eat even by seeing. Sa aikṣata. In the Vedic version it is said simply Kṛṣṇa put His glance over material nature, and she produced so many children. Sa aikṣata, sa jāyata. That is God. He can do everything by every linb of the body. We can simply see with eyes, but Kṛṣṇa, by seeing He can make pregnant. This is Kṛṣṇa. This is called aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti. That is called all-powerful. Just like Brahmā, Brahmā was born from the lotus flower grown from the naval of Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, and mother Lakṣmī is engaged in giving massage to Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu. You have seen the picture. But Kṛṣṇa, without taking help of goddess of fortune, He begot Brahmā. This is aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. We beget a child through the help of the wife, but Mahā-Viṣṇu or Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, although the wife is there, He did not take any help from the wife, but He begot.



*So we should always remember that Kṛṣṇa is all*-powerful, He is the supreme father and He is the supreme proprietor. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. The best life is to remain under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. Avaśya rakhibe kṛṣṇa viśvāsa pālan, rakiṣyate iti viśvāsa pālanam. This is called surrender, that "Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." And Kṛṣṇa also promises, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. Kṛṣṇa is giving protection to everyone without even being devotee. And one who becomes a devotee, how much care is taken by Kṛṣṇa, just imagine.

*samo 'haṁ sarva*-bhūteṣu

na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ

ye bhajanti tu māṁ bhaktyā

mayi te teṣu cāpy aham

[Bg. 9.29]



God is kind to everyone, merciful. But one who has engaged himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, He takes special care for him. So we should not miss this opportunity of life and deviate from devotional service and make our life cumberous, again fall into the same material existence, ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8], "This is mine." No. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. I am Kṛṣṇa's, everyone is Kṛṣṇa's, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Let us behave in that way, then our life is successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



760701SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.17-18

-

New Vrindaban, July 1, 1976



*Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: My dear friends, O sons of the demons, it is certain that no one bereft of knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been able to liberate himself from material bondage at any time or in any country. Rather, those bereft of knowledge of the Lord are bound by the material laws. They are factually addicted to sense gratification, and their target is women. Indeed, they are actually playthings in the hands of attractive women. Victimized by such a conception of life, they become surrounded by children, grandchildren and great*-grandchildren, and thus they are shackled to material bondage. Those who are very much addicted to this conception of life are called demons. Therefore, although you are sons of demons, keep aloof from such persons and take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, the origin of all demigods, because the ultimate goal for the devotees of Nārāyaṇa is liberation from the bondage of material existence."



Prabhupāda: Purport also.



*Pradyumna: Prahlāda Mahārāja has maintained the philosophical point of view that one should give up the dark well of family life and go to the forest to take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead (hitvātma*-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]). In this verse also, he stresses the same point. In the history of human society, no one, at any time or any place, has been liberated because of too much affection and attachment for his family. Even in those who are apparently very educated, the same family attachment is there. They cannot give up the association of their families, even in old age or invalidity, for they are attached to sense enjoyment. As we have several times discussed, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham: [SB 7.9.45] so-called householders are simply attracted by sexual enjoyment. Thus they keep themselves shackled in family life, and furthermore they want their children to be shackled in the same way. Playing the parts of playboys in the hands of women, they glide down to the darkest regions of material existence. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Because they are unable to control their senses, they continue a life of chewing the chewed and therefore descend to the darkest material regions. One should give up the association of such demons and adhere to the association of devotees. Thus one will be able to be liberated from material bondage.





Prabhupāda:



yato na kaścit kva ca kutracid vā

dīnaḥ svam ātmānam alam samarthaḥ

*vimocituṁ kāma*-dṛśāṁ vihāra-

*krīḍā*-mṛgo yan-nigaḍo visargaḥ



tato vidūrāt parihṛtya daityā

daityeṣu saṅgaṁ viṣayātmakeṣu

*upeta nārāyaṇam ādi*-devaṁ

*sa mukta*-saṅgair iṣito 'pavargaḥ

[SB 7.6.17-18]



So visargaḥ and apavargaḥ. Visargaḥ means creation. So the important fact is that if we are attached to the material world, maybe very minute quantity, then there will be visargaḥ. Visargaḥ means creation. We'll have to accept another body. Unless you are completely pure... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Śūnyam means zero.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*So the back to home back to Godhead, we are trying. That is our ambition. But if we have got a little propensity for material enjoyment, then... We may get very better position in the material world, in the Svargaloka, heavenly planet. The description of heavenly planet is given also in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Very, very opulent, we cannot imagine even how they are opulent. The roads are made of pearls, diamonds, coral, the roads are made of like that. And at the same time, no sinful man is admitted there. Everyone highly elevated, pious, there is no crookedness. There is no enviousness. So many... You'll find this description in the Eighth Canto, of Svargaloka. There are... Everything we cannot imagine even. But that is also within this material world. Within this material world. Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. We can go there if we want to go. Just like they are trying, the modern so-called scientist, to go to the moon planet, Mars. According to śāstra, these planets are bedecked with such descriptive facilities. They are also within the heavenly planets. But these rascals are going, and they find nobody there, and they take some dust and come back. This is their success. They do not know that they cannot enter even there. They are not meant for ordinary persons. At least those who are sinless, very straightforward, not envious. So anyway, even if we go, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna... [Bg. 8.16]. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, this is Svargaloka. And above that... Bhūr, bhuvaḥ, svaḥ. You have got the Gāyatrī, oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya. There are other higher planets also: Svargaloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka, Maharloka, Satyaloka, Brahmaloka. There are fourteen status of different planetary systems. Catur-daśa-bhuvana. And the topmost is the Brahmaloka. So even if you go there, there is no relief. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. You have to come back again.



*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja is very serious that visargaḥ, stop this visargaḥ. Go back, directly to Kṛṣṇa. Don't go even in this, any planetary system within this material world. We have got description of this planetary system, but there is also fight between the demons and the daityas. There is also not peace. There is struggle for existence. Sometimes one party is gaining above another party, and sometimes one's kingdom is attacked by another party, the demons attacking demigod's cities. They are attacking. The struggle for existence you'll find everywhere. Ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ. Therefore a devotee is not interested anywhere within this material world, however very opulent it may be. There may be roads and instead of the stone-diamonds, coral. That does not attract. They are not interested. They are interested to go to Vṛndāvana and become a grass there. This is devotee. Just like Uddhava, as soon as he entered Vṛndāvana, he immediately fell down on the road thinking that "On this street Kṛṣṇa has walked, His friends have walked, there are footprints." So this is the ambition of a devotee. They are not interested for diamond roads or pearl roads. No.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "If you, my dear daitya friends..." He was talking with his friends. They were born of daitya families. Daitya family means, daityeṣu saṅgaṁ viṣayātmakeṣu. Daitya means those who are materially attached, simply for sense gratification. They, that is the distinction between the daityas and devas. The devas, they are also in sense gratification, but they are devotees at the same time. Not pure devotees. Their devotion is for material opulence. They want something, return. Kṛṣṇa is also prepared. Kṛṣṇa takes sides of them. So if you want to enjoy material world, that also you can get by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa is so pleased, so kind. Therefore śāstra recommends:

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta puruṣaṁ param

[SB 2.3.10]



*Even if you have got desire to enjoy within this material world, still you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa will satisfy you. He'll give you. There is no need of doing something else for your material enjoyment. If you want... Because we can not give up material enjoyment. We have been habituated since time immemorial, many life after many life, simply for sense gratification. It is not very easy to give up the idea. Therefore śāstra says even if you have got idea of sense gratification, still you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't try it otherwise. Just like the devatās. They have got facilities for all sense gratification. Sense gratification means udara*-upastha-jihvā, jihvā, this tongue and the belly and the genitals. This is the prime sense gratificatory sources. Very palatable dishes, fill up the belly as much as possible, and then enjoy sex. This is material. In the spiritual world these things are absent. In the material world these things are very prominent.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja warns his friends that if we become attached to this sense gratification, then vimocituṁ kāma*-dṛśāṁ vihāra-krīḍā-mṛgo yan-nigaḍo visargaḥ. Nigaḍo, nigaḍo means the root, the root cause of accepting the material body. These things are sense gratification. Tato vidūrāt, from distant place. Tato vidūrāt parihṛtya daityā. "My dear friends, although you are born of daitya family, I am also born"-his father is also daitya. Daityeṣu saṅgaṁ viṣayātmakeṣu: "give up their..." Asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava ācāra [Cc. Madhya 22.87]. The same thing. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said. Who is a Vaiṣṇava? Vaiṣṇava, He immediately explained, that Vaiṣṇava, what is the duty of Vaiṣṇava? Some devotee asked Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Sir, what is the duty of a Vaiṣṇava?" So He immediately replied in two lines, asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava ācāra: "To give up the company of materialistic persons." Then the next question may be "Who is materialistic?" Asat eka 'strī-saṅgī: "One who is attached to woman, he is asat." And kṛṣṇa-bhakta āra, "And one who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa."

*So we have to give up. So there is therefore regulative principle. At least, no illicit sex. Get yourself married, live like a gentleman, take responsibility, then gradually you'll be able to give up this sex desire. Unless we give up this sex desire, completely unagitated, there is no possibility of stopping this repetition of material birth*-birth, death, old age and disease. That is not possible. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advises daityeṣu saṅgaṁ viṣayātmakeṣu: "Don't associate with..." Asat-saṅga, the same thing, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava ācāra. This is Vaiṣṇava's business. Don't take any opportunity of asat, those who are materially attached. It is very difficult association. Then it is possible upeta nārāyaṇam ādi-devaṁ sa mukta-saṅgair iṣito 'pavargaḥ. Therefore association is very, sajjati siddhāśaye (indistinct). Those who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service, make your association with them.

*We are therefore making different centers to give everyone the opportunity to have the association of devotee. As far as possible, we are giving shelter, we are giving prasādam, we are giving instruction, we are giving opportunity to worship Kṛṣṇa. Why? Because people may take advantage of the association, Nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇam ādi*-devam, they can associate with Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa and anything executed in the devotional service of Nārāyaṇa-Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, the same category... Nārāyaṇa paro 'vyaktyāt. Nārāyaṇa means who is, whose situation is transcendental, Nārāyaṇa. So as soon as you come in contact with Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī is there, goddess of fortune is there. We are not worshiping the daridra-nārāyaṇa manufacture. No. As they have manufactured the word. No. We have nothing to do with the so-called... It is rubbish. Nārāyaṇa cannot be daridra. Daridra means poor. This is all rubbish things. They manufacture such words, atheist class of men, but we hate to see them even. Nārāyaṇa is always opulent. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrno bhagavān always. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra, poor? That is not possible.

*So nārāyaṇam ādi*-devaṁ sa mukta-saṅgair iṣito 'pavargaḥ. Apavarga means release from these material sufferings. We have several times explained. Pavarga, pavarga means material suffering. Pa means pariśrama, always working hard, day and night. And pha, phena, foam coming out of my mouth. Pa, pha, ba, still baffled. Bha is fearfulness. Pa, pha, ba, bha and ma, mṛtyu, at last, death. This is called pavargaḥ. And apavargaḥ means just to counteract this pavargaḥ. So in one life if we try to associate with the devotees and engage in Nārāyaṇa's service sincerely... Maybe a little difficult. There is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? We can see practically. To chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and take prasādam, is there any difficulty? There is no difficulty. It is so pleasing. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā explains susukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. Susukham, very easy and pleasing to execute. And susukhaṁ kartum and avyayam. And whatever you do, that is permanent. So don't wait for another life, "I have done so much permanent, now again." No. Finish this business immediately in this life. Do not wait for susukhaṁ kartum avyayam. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means fully become detached with this material enjoyment, simply become engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760702SB.NV

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.19

-

New Vrindaban, July 2, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: My dear sons of demons, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, is the original Supersoul, the father of all living entities. Consequently there are no impediments to pleasing Him or worshiping Him under any conditions, whether one be a child or an old man. The relationship between the living entities and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is always a fact, and therefore there is no difficulty in pleasing the Lord." [SB 7.6.19]



Prabhupāda: Read the purport also.



*Pradyumna: One may ask, "One is certainly very attached to family life, but if one gives up family life to be attached to the service of the Lord, one must undergo the same endeavor and trouble. Therefore, what is the benefit of taking the trouble to engage in the service of the Lord?" This is not a valid objection. The Lord asserts in Bhagavad*-gītā (14.4):





*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā





*"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed*-giving father." The Supreme Lord, Nārāyaṇa, is the seed-giving father of all living entities because the living entities are parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord (mamaivāṁśo. .. jīva-bhūtaḥ [15.7]). As there is no difficulty in establishing the intimate relationship between a father and son, there is no difficulty in reestablishing the natural, intimate relationship between Nārāyaṇa and the living entities. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt: if one performs even very slight devotional service, Nārāyaṇa is always ready to save one from the greatest danger. The definite example is Ajāmila. Ajāmila separated himself from the Supreme Personality of Godhead by performing many sinful activities and was condemned by Yamarāja to be very severely punished, but because at the time of death he chanted the name of Nārāyaṇa, although he was calling not for the Supreme Lord Nārāyaṇa but for his son named Nārāyaṇa, he was saved from the hands of Yamarāja. Therefore, pleasing Nārāyaṇa does not require as much endeavor as pleasing one's family, community and nation. We have seen important political leaders killed for a slight discrepancy in their behavior. Therefore pleasing one's society, family, community and nation is extremely difficult. Pleasing Nārāyaṇa, however, is not at all difficult; it is very easy.



*One's duty is to revive one's relationship with Nārāyaṇa. A slight endeavor in this direction will make the attempt successful, whereas one will never be successful in pleasing his so*-called family, society and nation, even if one endeavors to sacrifice his life. The simple endeavor involved in the devotional service of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], hearing and chanting the holy name of the Lord, can make one successful in pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore bestowed His blessings by saying, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam: "All glories to Śrī Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana!" If one wants to derive the actual benefit from this human form, he must take to the chanting of the holy name of the Lord.



Prabhupāda:



na hy acyutaṁ prīṇayato

bahv-āyāso 'surātmajāḥ

*ātmatvāt sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

siddhatvād iha sarvataḥ

[SB 7.6.19]



*To become a devotee of the Supreme Lord is not unnatural. It is very easy, natural thing. By nature, we are attached to Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Somehow or other, circumstantially, we are separated. Not separated, because here it is stated ātmatvāt: the Supreme Personality of Godhead is, although we are thinking we are different from Him, He is within our hearts. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna: [Bg. 18.61] He is so friendly that although we are averse, we do not like even the word of God, God is so kind that He is sitting within my heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām, He's simply looking forward for the opportunity when I, the living entity, shall look towards Him. He's always anxious.



*So little endeavor is sufficient to begin our business with Him, little endeavor. And that endeavor begins by hearing about Him. We are holding classes in different parts of the world just to give people chance for little endeavor, not very much, very hard work. No. Little endeavor. What is that? "Please come here and hear about Kṛṣṇa." Then the business begins immediately. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtana [SB 1.2.17]. Because Kṛṣṇa is very much anxious: "When this conditioned soul will look towards Me? He's now looking towards māyā, the other side, the dark side, and when he'll look towards the light?" The Vedic injunction is, tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Do not look forward to the darkness, but look forward to the light." If you look forward to the light then there is no darkness. We have given our motto in the Back to Godhead that "Kṛṣṇa is the sun and māyā is nescience. Where there is Kṛṣṇa there is no māyā." If you look forward towards the sun there is no darkness. But if you keep sun back side, you'll find your shadow very long. So the beginning is very easy. Just like the children, they are also hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Don't think it is going in vain. Because they are hearing, it will have some effect. They are human child. Even the mosquitos or small germs who are within this boundary of temple, because they are hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra it will never go in vain. It is so nice.

*So here Prahlāda Mahārāja says, ātmatvāt sarva-bhūtānām. He is the Supersoul, sarva-bhūtānām, everyone. So as soon as He sees, Kṛṣṇa sees-He is within my heart*-that I am little inclined, svalpam apy asya dharmasya... That inclination, little inclination, we can give immediately effect to if we simply hear about Kṛṣṇa. Śravaṇam. That is the beginning.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*So śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanam [SB 1.2.17]. Even if we do not understand what is being spoken about Kṛṣṇa, still, simply by hearing, one becomes pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtana. Kirtana, one is speaking or chanting, another is hearing. Both of them are benefited, becomes pious. In this way, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless we are sinless. So there is no need of separate attempt to become sinless. If we simply hear, then we... Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtana. Puṇya means piety. Simply by hearing, you become pious. Then you become interested, naturally. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Somehow or other, if one becomes a little fit for: "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What they are doing, let me see," that is called śraddhā. And this śraddhā is little increased, then one will like to associate with the devotees. Adau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-sangaḥ. In this way, when he is accustomed, then he will like to become one of the devotees, offers himself to be initiated.



*Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅgaḥ. These are one after another. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana-kriyā, the beginning is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is bhajana-kriyā. And if it is done properly, then anartha-nivṛtti syāt. Then he becomes free from all unwanted things. Anartha, there is no need... Just like intoxication. There is no need, but if the bhajana-kriyā, Hare Kṛṣṇa maha-mantra chanting, goes on, naturally it will be stopped. Then niṣṭha. Tato niṣṭha tato ruci tataḥ asaktiḥ, asaktiḥ, attachment. In this way we can make advanced. The beginning is śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇa. As soon as Kṛṣṇa sees, ātmatvāt sarva bhūtānām, little attempt is there, immediately He helps. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te: Kṛṣṇa helps, "Yes, you come here, sit down, you do this." In this way, yena mām upayānti te. Kṛṣṇa helps the direction as he can achieve the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti. We have got so many dirty things within our hearts, and as soon as we are a little inclined to hear about Kṛṣṇa, He removes the dirty things, then we become more and more enthused. In this way, nityaṁ bhāgavata sevayā. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu [SB 1.2.18]. Not that cent percent we are cleansed, but even a little percentage cleansed, naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Nityam, daily, there must be bhāgavata-sevā. Everything is sevayā. Prasāda-seva, bhāgavata-sevā. Because, sevā means service. Just like maha-prasāda, not eating. The exact term is sevā. Kṛṣṇa has sent him maha-prasāda. So by taking it, it is sevā, it is service to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa likes it, that you take the prasādam. Therefore it is sevā. In this way, increasing sevā.

So if we can... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234], the sevā, the service, begins from the tongue, service. Not with the hand but with the tongue. If you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is sevā, and if you take prasādam, then your business begins immediately. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. And if you simply continue this sevā, then Kṛṣṇa will reveal Himself and gradually He will give you intelligence how you can make advance to go back to home, back to Godhead. Na hy acyutaṁ prīṇayato. Acyutam, Kṛṣṇa is acyuta. Acyuta means who never falls down, or never withdraws his promise. That is acyuta. Just like we promise something, but sometimes we do not keep. This is material world. But Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Kṛṣṇa says... His name is acyuta, means never fall down. Just like Arjuna asked Kṛṣṇa, rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta. He's ordering Kṛṣṇa to drive the chariot. He knew that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is my duty to serve Him, but He has agreed to become my chariot driver, so now I have to order Him. He has agreed to become my chariot driver." Therefore he is reminding, "Kṛṣṇa, do not take it otherwise because I am ordering You. You are not to be ordered, but You order everyone. Now I am ordering You, but You are acyuta, You are never fallible. You never withdraw Your word." So Kṛṣṇa also carried his order. He's so nice friend of Arjuna that He promised, "I shall become your chariot driver." And the master is ordering. Therefore He used this word, acyuta.

*So Acyuta, Kṛṣṇa, never falls from His word, from His promise. And He promises, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. If you become His devotee, rest assured you will never be vanquished. Kṛṣṇa is always protecting. So such... We are loitering in this material world without any protection. Kadāham aikāntika kiñkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi sānatha*-jīvitam. There is a verse by Yamunacārya. Kadāham aikāntika nitya kiñkaraḥ. Just now I forget the first line. He's praying, "My dear Lord, I am loitering in this material world without any guardian. So when the time will come that I shall be jolly always that 'There is my guardian, Kṛṣṇa'?" Kadāham aikāntika nitya kiñkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi. Anātha. Everyone is in this material world, anātha. Anātha means without any protection. The... We are thinking, "My family, my wife, my children, my society men, my nation will give me protection." No. Nobody can give you protection. It is false hope. Just like the birds, when they fly in the sky, everyone has to take his own care. Nobody can help anyone. One can help only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not in the material way. Nobody can help. Because... This is called destiny. I have given that example that in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he was a big man, he was in the meeting. In your country also, President Kennedy. So nobody could help him when he was killed.

So this is the position. What is destined, it must happen. Nobody can help us. That's a fact. Therefore our real business is: do not be bothered about things which are destined. Let us take ad vantage of this human form of life, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18], to endeavor for making Kṛṣṇa consciousness fulfilled. And that is not very difficult, Prahlāda Mahārāja (says) this is natural, simply little attempt. First of all surrender. Kāmādīnāṁ katidhā kati na pālitā durṇideśa. We are servants of our kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, kāmādīnā. Kāma means lusty desires. We are now servant of our senses. Although we are declaring, "I am master," nobody is master. He is servant. Constitutionally, we are servants. So instead of becoming servant of Kṛṣṇa we have become servant of our senses. Kāmādīnāṁ katidhā kati na pālitā durṇideśa. And our senses ordering to do something which is not to be done at all. But still we have to do. Lusty desires are so strong, I do not want to do it but it is forcing. In this way, we are being forced to serve the senses.

*So one who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he understands that "I have become servant of my senses. Unfortunately, these senses are not satisfied. I am still servant. So there is no profit. So why not become Kṛṣṇa's servant." This is good intelligence. Simply change the position. Instead of becoming servant of the senses, agree to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore it is not at all difficult. Nācyutaṁ prīṇayato. You have to simply approach Kṛṣṇa, "My Lord, I am servant, but I could not please anyone. Neither anyone is pleased upon me." This is material service. You serve the whole life your so*-called friends, family, countrymen... We have got the experience that Mahatma Gandhi, he served whole life. Still, he was killed by his countrymen. So you may go on giving service in the material world, but nobody will be satisfied. Nobody will be satisfied. So this service is useless. Turn to the service of Kṛṣṇa immediately. It is not very difficult. Servant, we are practiced to serve. We are not master. We have been practiced. By nature, we are servant. So turn this service to Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult. If I am trained up to become a faithful servant, just become a faithful servant of Kṛṣṇa, then your business is complete. Na hi acyutaṁ prīṇayato bahu-āyāsaḥ. Much endeavor. There is no question of learning, much endeavor. We are already accustomed to give service. Simply turn it towards Kṛṣṇa and your life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760703SB.WDC

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.6.20-23

-

Washington D.C., July 3, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



parāvareṣu bhūteṣu

*brahmānta*-sthāvarādiṣu

bhautikeṣu vikāreṣu

bhūteṣv atha mahatsu ca



*guṇeṣu guṇa*-sāmye ca

*guṇa*-vyatikare tathā

eka eva paro hy ātmā

bhagavān īśvaro 'vyayaḥ



*pratyag-ātma*-svarūpeṇa

*dṛśya*-rūpeṇa ca svayam

*vyāpya*-vyāpaka-nirdeśyo

hy anirdeśyo 'vikalpitaḥ



kevalānubhavānanda-

svarūpaḥ parameśvaraḥ

māyayāntarhitaiśvarya

*īyate guṇa*-sargayā

[SB 7.6.20-23]



*"Translation: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme controller, who is infallible and indefatigable, is present in different forms of life, from the inert living beings (sthāvara), such as the plants, to Brahmā, the foremost created living being. He is also present in total material energy and the modes of material nature (sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa), as well as the unmanifested material nature and the false ego. Although He is one, He is present everywhere, and He is also the transcendental Supersoul, the cause of all causes, who is present as the observer in the cores of the hearts of all living entities. He is indicated as that which is pervaded and as the all-pervading Supersoul, but actually He cannot be indicated. He is changeless and individed. He is simply perceived as the supreme sac-cid-ānanda (eternity, knowledge and bliss). Being covered by the curtain of the external energy, to the atheist He appears nonexistent."



Prabhupāda: So this is the description of the Absolute Truth. You can explain in your own way. Just stand up and explain. They'll be glad. The Absolute Truth explanation.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Absolute Truth?



Prabhupāda: Yes, you can explain in your scientific way.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: We impose that, ah...



Prabhupāda: Stand up and say. They'll be glad to hear. (laughter)



Svarūpa Dāmodara: We make a prerequisite, saying that in order to understand the difference between life and matter, the basic requirement is to have some understanding of the Absolute Truth. Like in mathematics and physics and in chemistry, there are certain axioms from which the knowledge... [break] ...and theories are produced from these axioms. Similarly, if one would accept Absolute Truth, the axiom of the truth, in order to understand the basic meaning of God, the difference between life and matter, the requirement is very scientific. (indistinct) axioms (indistinct) so we take Absolute Truth source of everything.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, is explaining Himself. Absolute Truth is the ultimate end, Vedānta. The subject matter of knowledge is Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we have got this human form of life to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Unless one is jijñāsuḥ, inquisitive, there is no need of accept a so-called fashionable guru. To accept guru is not a fashion, style, that "Everyone has guru; I'll have a guru." No. The śāstra says, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam. One should accept guru when he is inquisitive, jijñāsuḥ. What about? Śreyaḥ uttamam. The Absolute or the auspicity beyond this material world. Uttamam. Tamaḥ means darkness, ignorance.



*So here, our position in this material world: darkness. We are simply speculating in so many ways what is the ultimate cause. There are so many philosophers, but they are speculating only without any definite knowledge. So śāstra says that speculative knowledge will not be successful at any time. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said that panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām [Bs. 5.34]. Manaso, by mental speculation, muni-puṅgavānām, one who speculates, he is called muni. So muni-puṅgava. Puṅgava means the most exalted muni, if he simply speculates about the Absolute Truth, how many years? Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara. Just like people are now going in the outer space to find out some shelter in the moon planet, in the Mars planet, similarly, if you want to find out the Absolute Truth or the abode of the Absolute Truth... The description is there in the śāstra:

*goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya

*devī*-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu

*te te prabhāva*-nicayā vihitāś ca yena

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.43]



*The topmost planet in the spiritual sky is the, called Goloka. That is Kṛṣṇa's place. Goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni. And below this there are Vaikuṇṭha-dhāmas, unlimited number of Vaikuṇṭha-dhāmas. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa. Devī-dhāma, this is called Devī-dhāma, this material world. And Maheśa-dhāma, the Śivaloka. And devī-mahesa, hari-dhāmasu. Hari-dhāmasu means Vaikuṇṭha. So these are the different status of dhāma. We cannot calculate, estimate even this Devī-dhāma. This is called Devī-dhāma. This material world is called Devī-dhāma. It is controlled by Devī, Goddess Durgā.



*sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.44]



*So this Devī*-dhāma is being controlled by the most powerful energy Durga. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka. But she's acting as chāyeva, a shadow of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is also summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā:



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*So in this way, if we study through the śāstra, everything is there. If you want to find out the Absolute Truth, how? Śāstra cakṣuṣāt. Through the śāstras, through the Vedic knowledge, you'll find the Absolute Truth. If we actually accept that Veda means knowledge... Vetthi veda vida jñāne. Veda means knowledge, jñāna. So Veda*-anta, the last, last phase of knowledge. The last phase of knowledge is the Absolute Truth. You have to go up to that. So that Absolute Truth, if you go on speculating, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo [Bs. 5.34], that will not be possible. Śata-vatsara-sampragamyo, by hundreds and hundreds of years, if you go on with speed... What is that speed? Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi. Airplane, vāyor athāpi. And what is the speed? Vāyor athāpi, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso. By the speed of air and mind. Mind is very speedy. You are sitting here, you can immediately remember ten thousand miles away, it is so speedy. So even by the mind's speed you cannot, by going over the space, koṭi-śata-vatsara, many millions of years still it remains unknown. So this is not the way to understand the Absolute truth, but if we accept the Vedic process, avaroha panthā, when the knowledge comes from the Absolute Truth, then it is possible.



So we Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees, we try to understand the Absolute Truth by the grace of the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "I am the Supreme." Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. In this way, if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is speaking, as they are stated in the śāstra, as it is accepted by the ācāryas, then we can have some trace of the Absolute Truth. Just like Kṛṣṇa says,

athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*The expansion of the Absolute Truth how it is working, so Kṛṣṇa summarized before Arjuna that this material world, material world... Ekāṁśena sthito jagat, this material world. What is that material world? This material world, we see only one universe to our vision. Similarly, there are millions of universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jadad*-aṇḍa koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Jagad-aṇḍa means one universe. And in each universe, koṭiṣu aśeṣa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭisv aśeṣu vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. There are millions of planets and each planet is different from here. That is God's creation. So all this together, ekāṁśena sthito jagat, this material world is one-fourth part exhibition of God's creation. And three-fourths' part is in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, spiritual world. So by speculation, by our research, it is impossible, but we can get a glimpse of knowledge of the Absolute Truth when we receive it through the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. (end)



SB 7.7: Lectures





710318SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.19-20

-

Bombay, March 18, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ... vidvān ātmano lakṣaṇaiḥ paraiḥ ahaṁ mamety asad*-bhāvaṁ [SB 7.7.19-20]. (aside) You can sit down this side. Dehādau mohajaṁ tyajet. So, Prahlāda Mahārāja is instructing his demon class friends. They are not demons, but they are sons of demons. Just like you are. (laughter) You are not demons, but you are sons of demons. (chuckles) Is it right? (laughs) But you have no more connection with your demon father. That's nice. So, in some of these, I think Back to Godhead No. 40, Hayagrīva has written a very nice article, Constitution of the Soul. It is very nicely written. So, demonic principle is they do not give stress on the soul. They are bodily conscious that "I am this body." And as soon as one is such foolishly conceiving body as self, his activities will be demonic. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. The demons also sometimes they have got conception of the soul, they believe in transmigration of the soul, but though they... Simply on the platform of accepting this body as self, they have been compared with animals.



*So, Prahlāda Mahārāja has very nicely analyzed the characteristics of the soul by twelve items: ātmā, nitya, avyaya, śuddha, eka, kṣetra*-jña, āśraya, avikriya, sva-dṛk, hetuḥ, vyāpaka, asaṅgī, anāvṛta. These things I have explained in Calcutta. Again we may repeat. These are important points. The characteristic of ātmā, either ātmā or paramātmā, the same characteristics are there. Exactly like gold bar and gold particle. The chemical composition of the gold bar and the gold particle is the same. So, ātmā nitya eternal. The materialistic scientists, they have no information of the ātmā. They think that this material combination of elements evolved some living force. That is their theory. As such they think that in other planets, where the atmosphere is different, they think there is no life, because they do not know that life means presence of the ātmā, and the ātmā, the soul, can live in any condition of material existence, any condition. Even in fire the ātmā can live because according to the information we receive from Bhagavad-gītā, the ātmā is never burned even in the fire. It is never moistened in the water. It cannot be cut into pieces. These things are there. This material body can be cut into pieces, it can be burned, it can be wetted in water, but ātmā, spirit soul, is different from this body.

*The material scientists, they have no information of ātmā. Therefore they think that in the moon planet there is no life, in the sun planet there is no life. Simply... This is kūpa*-maṇḍūka-nyāya. Dr. Frog Ph D., he's thinking in his own way. Dr. Frog thinks that this three feet dimension of the well is all in all, there cannot be anything. These rascal philosopher and rascal scientist, they think in that way, Dr. Frog. There cannot be Atlantic Ocean. That three feet dimension, well water is sufficient. Therefore we have to receive knowledge from authorities. We cannot speculate. Speculation will not help us in approaching the real destination.

*So, Prahlāda Mahārāja, whatever he is saying-he's an authority-we should accept. Ātmā, nitya-eternal. Avyaya-inexhaustible. Avyaya, śuddha. Śuddha means pure, without any contamination. Śuddha, eka. Eka means individual. Eka. Kṛṣṇa is also individual and the living entity is also individual, eka. Kṣetra-jña-fully conscious of his bodily activities, kṣetra-jña. Āśraya-the basic principle. As I am, I am spirit soul, I am the basic principle of development of this body, similarly Kṛṣṇa is the basic principle of development of this universe. That is the difference. I know where is the pains and pleasure, what are the defects and favorable condition in my body, but I do not know what is favorable for your body. Therefore I am not kṣetra-jña, conversant with your bodily activities, but Kṛṣṇa knows. kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am also kṣetra-jña, knower of the body, but I know everyone's body." That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa, Paramātmā, the Supersoul, and the individual soul. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they make one. That is not possible. Kṣetra-jña, āśraya, avikriya-unchangeable. Sva-dṛk*-he can see himself by contemplation, by meditation. Sva-dṛk, hetuḥ-cause. Vyāpaka-all-pervading. I am all-pervading within this body, in my body. I am not all-pervading in your body. If I pinch your body I do not feel any pain, but if I pinch my body I feel pain. Therefore, "I am all-pervading", means I am all-pervading in this body by consciousness. Anywhere you touch, the consciousness is there feeling touch. Vyāpaka, asaṅgī. Asaṅgī means without being mixed up. The same example, that fishing but not touching the water. Oil, you drop some oil on the water it will float, it will not mix. When you emulsify water it changes the color, but it is there. That will be explained in the next verse. Another example is milk. The milk, pure milk, there is butter, but you cannot see the butter in the milk. But if you could... [break]

*...on the same platform by the paṇḍita, by the learned, because he does not see the outward coverings, he sees the inner soul, the characteristics of the soul as described. But the demons, they cannot see the inner soul. They cannot distinguish the characteristics of the soul. Simply they see superficially and, identifying with the body, there is always trouble. "I am this nation", "I am Englishman," "I am German," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa", "I am this," "I am that," designation. So, one has to become free from this designation before one can understand what is spiritual life. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Sarvopādhi... These are designations, superficial.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that etair dvādaśabhir vidvān ātmano lakṣaṇaiḥ paraiḥ. Paraiḥ means superior. You have to distinguish ātmā by superior characteristics, not by inferior characteristics. And by understanding the ātmā's real position, ahaṁ mamety asad-bhāvaṁ dehādau mohajaṁ tyajet. You should give up the bodily identification which is a production of illusion, mohajaṁ. Production of illusion. As soon as I think I am American, "Why American money should go to India?" Immediately he becomes disqualified to become a member of the (indistinct), immediately. Because the same demoniac principle-"I am this." Mohajaṁ. Mohajaṁ*-this is the production of illusion. Prahlāda Mahārāja says tyajet, "You should give up these demonic principles," tyajet. Tyajet, this is (indistinct)-must, must. There are different forms of verbs in Sanskrit. This form of verb means must. There is no argument, you must. Just like in Vedas says tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]-must, must go. So here also Prahlāda Mahārāja says tyajet. This dehātma-buddhi, this upādhi, this designation is dangerous for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, tyajet.

*svarṇaṁ yathā grāvasu hema*-kāraḥ

*kṣetreṣu yogais tad*-abhijña āpnuyāt

*kṣetreṣu deheṣu tathātma*-yogair

*adhyātma*-vid brahma-gatiṁ labheta



Now he's giving a very nice example. Just like what, what is called, a technical, soil expert?



Devotee: Geologist.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Devotee: Geologist?



Prabhupāda: No, no geologist is different.



Devotee: Agronomist.



Prabhupāda: Huh? What was that?



Devotee: Agronomist.



Prabhupāda: What is that exact word used? Soil expert. (laughter) Soil expert means...



Devotee: Conservationist.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee: Conservationist?



Prabhupāda: No.



Devotee: Agronomist.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Devotee: Agronomist.



Prabhupāda: Agronomist?



Devotee: Yes. Agra means field, one who studies the earth.



Prabhupāda: And just like one can understand from the characteristics of the particular soil, that there is gold. In this (place) there is possibility of gold. That is agronomist?



Devotee: No, that would be geologist.



Prabhupāda: Geologist?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: All right, geologist. (laughter) So.... I don't think geologist. (laughter) Geologist is different. You have no dictionary? Where is my dictionary?



Devotee: It is in the next room. Should I get it?



*Prabhupāda: All right, we shall see later on. Take it for agronomist, geologist. But soil expert (laughter). Soil expert to... He knows how to find out a particular type of mine. They can find out, "Here there is mica, in this soil there is coal, in this soil there is gold." So Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving very nice example that, svarṇaṁ yathā grāvasu hema*-kāraḥ. Hema-kāraḥ means goldsmith, not goldsmith. Goldsmith is manufacturer of gold ornaments. Hema-kāraḥ means gold expert, you can say. He can find out in the soil where there is gold mine. Still there are. I know when I was managing Dr. Bose's laboratory, one chemist, Chandra Bhusan Vadery (?), he was a well known chemist in Calcutta. So, one Marwari gentleman was after him. He said that "I know how to find out gold mine." So, the Marwari gentleman spent after him lakhs of rupees and he said that "Here there is gold," but unfortunately gold was not found. (chuckles) And the gentleman lost so much money. So, but there are experts otherwise how gold mines are found out? There are experts. So here it is said... It is not new thing. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that this art is known millions and millions of years ago. It is not that the modern science has discovered airplane, modern science has discovered how to go to other planet and they have mining industry, no. These are all known. There is no question of modern science. Now, otherwise how Prahlāda Mahārāja gave this example? Vivikta, viviktatma jnana, jnani napi bhavena brahmata praktikasam syat (?).



Question may be put by opposing party that simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious how one can know God? What will be your answer? What will be your answer? Suppose an opposing party says that "All right, I accept that you are Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious, you have devoted your life for Kṛṣṇa, so how do you find, how do you see Kṛṣṇa that you are working for Him?" What will be the answer? Are you following blindly or you have experience of Kṛṣṇa? Yes. What will be the answer? It's a very intelligent question. People will ask you, perhaps they ask, "Have you seen Kṛṣṇa?" "Why you are Kṛṣṇa conscious?" What is your answer?

*Devotee: You see Him through śāstra and the teachings of the spiritual master and His arca*-vigraha.



Prabhupāda: Of course that's nice, but then you are following blindly your spiritual master. What is your experience?



Devotee: Your heart becomes pure.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Devotee: First you can hear Kṛṣṇa before you see Him and this is a purification process. And the purification process can be felt and then you ask the person, "You can feel it yourself by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, why not try it?"



Prabhupāda: That's all right, you have tried, whether you have seen? That is the question. You have tried for the last four or five years, whether you have seen Kṛṣṇa?



Devotee: We cannot see Kṛṣṇa because our eyes are impure...



Prabhupāda: Then you are following blindly.



Devotee: (indistinct) the scriptures and the śāstras we get pure.



*Prabhupāda: He has feeling. That is (indistinct). Anubhava ananta svarupa, parameśvara. That is the (indistinct). You can feel His presence, that is being explained here. (reads Sanskrit commentary) It is very simple. Prahlāda Mahārāja is saying that as the expert gold miner, when he sees there are gold particles in the field, naturally he concludes.... Still, in India there is a river, in that river gold particles, in the water gold particles can be found. Gold particles. Many poor men they whole day work and strain the water in different way and get some little gold, still. So, by the symptoms, by the symptoms the expert gold miner finds out that here is gold, gold mine. Because within the soil, or with the soil you find some gold particles. That is the way, here it is said. Similarly, one can find out Kṛṣṇa by the symptoms, the characteristics, of this world. That is common sense. Just in everything there is a controller. There is a life. Just like in my body, I am controlling this body, and there is living force, living symptoms. Similarly, this whole world which is going on, there are so many things that is, that requires nice brain. This planetary system is moving nicely, exactly to the order. So, one should consider that there must be some brain behind this-how things are going so nicely. That is common sense. Just like the gold mine expert, as soon as he finds some gold particles either in the vicinity, water or land, they consider there is gold mine. Similarly, when you find that things are going on so nicely, there is a big brain behind this. That is the statement of Professor Einstein. He also says that as we make progress and we see wonderful things, we are bound to believe that there is a big brain. There is a big brain. (reads Sanskrit commentary) So, as the poor man goes to the river side and by straining the water by-they have a specific process, they find out some gold-similarly, a person kṣetreṣu deheṣu ātma adhyātma-vid brahma-gatiṁ labheta (?). This meditation means thinking very deeply what I am, what I am. And the process of the yoga system is the same system as you strain water and find out gold. Similarly, if you follow the yoga system, dhyāna, dhāraṇa, āsana, prāṇāyāma*-that is mechanical-then you will find that "I am the spirit soul and there is Supreme Soul, Kṛṣṇa." That is possible. That is really perfection of yoga practice. Not that simply pressing the nose, no. Actually perfection of yogic meditation is to understand the self; the soul is there and the Supersoul is there. The process is there.



aṣṭau prakṛtayaḥ proktās

*traya eva hi tad*-guṇāḥ

vikārāḥ ṣoḍaśācāryaiḥ

pumān ekaḥ samanvayāt



*Aṣṭau prakṛtayaḥ, eight material elements, that is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā-bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]-earth, water, fire, air, sky, and the mind, ahaṅkāra, mind, egotism and khaṁ mano buddhi, and intelligence. These are gross and subtle material elements. Aṣṭau prakṛtayaḥ proktās traya eva hi tad-guṇāḥ, and these material elements are moving by the interaction of the three material qualities-sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. One who is situated in the sattva-guṇa, he is also existing on these eight material elements. And one who is existing in the modes of passion, he is also existing on the... Brāhmaṇa's body, take for example. Brāhmaṇa is in the sattva-guṇa, and kṣatriya is in the raja-guṇa. Vaiśya is mixed up and śūdra is the tamo-guṇa. So existing means the consciousness according to the contamination of different condition of the guṇas... This condition is the guṇas. Sattva-guṇa, one who is in sattva-guṇa, his consciousness is different from the consciousness of the raja-guṇa. One whose consciousness is raja-guṇa, his consciousness is different from the tamo-guṇa. In this way you will find different types of consciousness. In pure there are three. If they're mixed up-three into three, it becomes nine. Again mixed up-nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. Again mixed up-eighty-one... In this way you will find varieties of life. But they're based on the three types of consciousness-sattva-guṇa consciousness, raja-guṇa consciousness, tamo-guṇa consciousness. So when one is transcendental to this contaminated consciousness, polluted by the three qualities of material nature, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



aṣṭau prakṛtayaḥ proktās

*traya eva hi tad*-guṇāḥ

vikārāḥ ṣoḍaśācāryaiḥ

pumān ekaḥ samanvayāt



*But the soul is the same. By external affection in the material world under different qualities, he's appearing different. Therefore, we have got 8,400,000 of species of life, by different consciousness. When one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no such differentiation, there is one consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, I am His servant, that's all. So long one does not come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no possibility of so*-called eternity, fraternity, unity, universal brotherhood, that is not possible. It is impossible because they are all contaminated.



*dehas tu sarva*-saṅghāto

jagat tasthur iti dvidhā

atraiva mṛgyaḥ puruṣo

neti netīty atat tyajan



*(reads Sanskrit commentary) The Sankhya philosophy here, the description is Sankhya philosophy. Twenty*-four elements, twenty-four elements. Eight gross and subtle elements, and then their production, the ten indriya, senses, working senses, and knowledge acquiring senses. Eight, ten, eighteen. Then the sense objects, five. Eighteen plus five, twenty-three. And then the ātmā, the soul. Twenty-four elements, the Sankhya philosophy, they are analyzed. The Sankhya philosophy. The European philosophers they like very much this Sankhya philosophy system because in the Sankhya philosophy these twenty-four elements have been very much lucidly explained. Sankhya philosophy. Dehas tu sarva-saṅghāto jagat. So there are two kinds of bodies, jagat and tasthuḥ-moving and not moving. But they're all combination of these twenty-four elements. atraiva mṛgyaḥ puruṣo neti netīty, now, one has to find out the ātmā from these twenty-four elements by eliminating, "Where is ātmā, where is ātmā, where is ātmā." But one can find out in that way provided he follows the rules and regulations, and the process. That is possible.



*anvaya*-vyatirekeṇa

vivekenośatātmanā

*svarga*-sthāna-samāmnāyair

vimṛśadbhir asatvaraiḥ



So further explanation, this is subject matter little difficult, but it is very important. Prahlāda Mahārāja is explaining to his demonic class friends. Five years old boy how he's explaining the Sankhya philosophy because he's a devotee and he has heard the whole philosophy from authorities, Nārada Muni. Mūkhaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim. Therefore, the spiritual master's mercy is described, mūkhaṁ karoti vācālam. Mūkham means dumb, one who cannot speak. He becomes a great lecturer or speaker. Although he is dumb but he can become a great lecturer, mūkhaṁ karoti vācālam. Paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim, and one who is lame, who cannot walk, he can cross over the mountains. Mūkhaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate... Yat kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande, that by whose mercy these things are possible, I offer my respectful obeisances, param ānanda bhavam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, reservoir of all pleasure. By Kṛṣṇa's mercy it is possible. By material calculation it is not possible. Material calculation one will say that "How it is possible, you say the dumb is lecturing very nicely? That is not possible." Or, "That lame man is now crossing the mountains?" So materially it is not possible. But by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa or His representative... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, five years old boy, he is explaining so nicely about the constitution of the soul. Why? Because he has obtained the mercy of Nārada Muni, the representative of Kṛṣṇa. So it is possible. So we'll stop. (end)





670310SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.22-26

-

San Francisco, March 10, 1967



Prabhupāda:



aṣṭau prakṛtayaḥ proktās

*traya eva hi tad*-guṇāḥ

vikārāḥ ṣoḍaśācāryaiḥ

pumān ekaḥ samanvayāt

[SB 7.6.22]



*Now we are presenting self*-analysis. What is that self? Prahlāda Mahārāja is describing. This is self-realization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A boy of five years old, because he has received the knowledge from the right source, he is presenting everything very competently and very scientifically. This is the beauty of knowledge received from the authorities.



*So... (pause) So we have discussed this aṣṭau prakṛtayaḥ..., eight different, differential elements, material elements. What is that? Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. And these eight elements are described in the Bhagavad-gītā as separated energy. Separated energy you'll understand: just like I am speaking, and my speech is being recorded in the tape recorder. So even I am not here, if you apply the machine, it will exactly speak like me. That is my energy, but now it is separated. It cannot be changed. Suppose I am personally sitting here. If I want to speak something and I can change into another, but that machine cannot change. It will simply produce the sound, what is recorded there. Therefore it is separated energy. Similarly, these eight elements, they are called separated energy. God, from God's inconceivable potencies, this energy has come out, this material energy. And it is acting mechanically, just like the same way, tape recorder. Nobody has got power to change it, but it is working. It is working. And it is working so nicely because it is emanated from the Absolute Truth. It is appearing just like truth. Just like another example: if you find some beautiful doll in the shopkeeper's window, oh, it appears, oh, just like, exactly a beautiful, nice girl. But it is not. But how it looks so nice? It is the craftmanship of the person who has manufactured that doll. Similarly, this separated energy, material energy, it is false, just like the doll. Nobody's attracted. Nobody's going to love offer, offer love to that doll girl because everyone knows, "This is false." Similarly, those who are intelligent, they are not interested to take any serious part in this material world because it is separated energy, and it is acting so nicely, with the complication of three modes of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance... This is also discussed, that there are three guṇas, and if you multiply it with three, three into three, it becomes nine. Then nine into nine equal to eighty-one. Then go on, eighty*-one into eighty-one. It will, increases infinitely.

*So this energy is acting in such a way that those who are not in exactly knowledge, they are bewildered. They think, "This is the end, nature, material nature." But this material nature is temporary*-everyone knows it-as your body is temporary. It is born, it is stays for sometimes, it grows, it becomes very beautiful, and it produces some by-products, some children, or nice boys and girls, then becomes old and then vanishes, these six changes. Similarly, you should know anything material, they are under these six changes, and when vanishes, it will never come back again. It finishes forever. Your this nice body, when it will vanish, nobody can get it back. Suppose one man's very beautiful son or daughter has died. There is no power in this world which can bring back that body again. That is not possible. Therefore any sane man, any intelligent man, they should understand that "This is false. Behind this body, what is there?" That is being analyzed. This is self-analysis.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja: vikārāḥ ṣoḍaśācāryaiḥ pumān ekaḥ samanvayāt. Now, these eight elements, they have changed by the interaction of the three guṇas into another sixteen items. What are those sixteen items? Ten items are the senses: five senses for acquiring knowledge and five senses for enjoying, and five tan*-mātra, or objects of sense enjoyment. Just like you have got your eyes. This is the sense for enjoying. What is that? You want to see beautiful things. So there must be beauty. So this beauty is another change, and this eye is also is another change-out of those eight elements. Similarly, you have got your nose. You want to smell very nice aroma. So there is. Nice aromas, there is. You have got nice flower, or you see rose flower, how nice aroma is there. But everything, whatever you see, they are simply interaction of those eight different, differentiated energy and the three guṇas, three qualities.

*So this analytical study is called sāṅkhya philosophy. Sāṅkhya philosophy, you have heard the name. They very nicely analyze these material elements, and this sāṅkhya philosophy of India is very much appreciated by European philosophers because they are more or less materialists. But the sāṅkhya philosophy, sāṅkhya kara (?), has become very popular in European circle. So vikārāḥ ṣoḍaśācāryaiḥ pumān ekaḥ samanvayāt. Now, within this, these sixteen interactional presentation and eight differentiated energies, it makes twenty-four. Within these twenty-four interactions of this material energy, I am sitting. I am soul, spirit soul. Dehas tu sarva-saṅghāto jagat tasthur iti dvidhā [SB 7.6.23]. Now, these twenty-four, I mean to say, manifestation, is called this body. And that body are also two kinds. What are? That some bodies are moving, and some bodies are stationary. Just like trees, plants, they are also living entities. They are also living entities, and we, human beings, or animals... There are divisions. Several times we have discussed. There are 8,400,000 of species of life. Out of these, trees and plants they are two millions. And the aquatics, there are 900,000's. Similarly, the bacteria, worms and reptiles, they are sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṇkhayakāḥ, eleven..., 1,100,000's. There are analytical study in the Vedic knowledge. They are experimented, and if you like, can experiment yourself also. Just like the information is that there are 900,000's of aquatics. Now, if you have got power to study how many aquatics are there, you can corroborate. Or two millions of plants and trees and creepers*-that also, you can corroborate. But we get from Vedic literature these informations. So these are the different manufactures, different presentation of this interaction of these twenty-four elements. Dehas tu sarva-saṅghāto jagat tasthur iti dvidhā. And this deha, this body, is divided into two classes of body: one class, moving, and one class, not moving, standing stationary.

Atraiva mṛgyaḥ puruṣaḥ neti netīty atat tyajan. Now, if you are intelligent enough, then you can find out the puruṣa. Purusa means the enjoyer. We... I have got this body because I wanted a certain type of enjoyment. So nature has given me a certain type of body. You wanted certain type of enjoyment: the nature has given you a certain type of body. The tiger wanted a certain type of enjoyment, so he, it has got a certain type of body. Similarly, every one of us, in the 8,400,000's of species of life, we have got different bodies. But the soul is there. The soul, the individual soul, is within the elephant, and the individual soul is within the bacteria. Bacteria you cannot find with your open eyes. You have to see with a microscope. It has got the same soul. As the elephant has got the same soul, similarly, the bacteria has also got the same soul. Atraiva mṛgyaḥ puruṣo neti neti. Now you have to analyze. You have to analyze what is soul and what is not soul. That requires intelligence. Just like the other day I explained to you that if you think yourself, meditate on your self, that "Am I this hand? Am I this leg? Am I these eyes? Am I this ear?" oh, you'll say, "No, no, I am not this hand. I am not this leg." You'll understand. If you meditate, you'll understand. But when you come to the point of consciousness, you'll say, "Yes, I am this." This is meditation. This is meditation, analytical study of yourself.

*So anvaya*-vyatirekeṇa vivekena uśatātmanā. Those who are advanced in knowledge, directly and indirectly, by contemplating, by meditation, they can find out. It is not difficult. The process is anvaya, directly, and vyatirekeṇa, indirectly, and vivekena... Vivekena means with deliberation, with deliberation. Now, take for example if you think that "This finger is..., I am this finger." No, you are not this finger because if you cut your finger, then you'll live. Therefore you are not finger. This is viveka. This is deliberation. Similarly, you can study. It is not very difficult. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, svarga-sthāna-samāmnāyair vimṛśadbhir asatvaraiḥ.

*anvaya*-vyatirekena

vivekenośatātmanā

*svarga*-sthāna-samāmnāyair

vimṛśadbhir asatvaraiḥ

[SB 7.6.24]



*So very soon, if you try to meditate what you are and what you are not, by this analytical self*-study, you can understand that you are not this body, you are this consciousness. And this consciousness, what is that consciousness? It is the effulgence of the soul. Consciousness is also not you are. It is just like this lamp has got some effulgence and illumination. Similarly, the soul has got illumination. That illumination is this consciousness. So this illumination, this consciousness is also limited. Your consciousness, my consciousness, they are limited. You cannot perceive or understand what I am thinking; I cannot perceive or understand what you are thinking. If you are feeling, I mean to say, uncomfortable, I do not understand it. And if I am feeling happy, you do not understand it. In this way, if you make analytical study, you'll know that every one of us is individual and we have got individual consciousness, limited consciousness, not extensive. The Māyāvādī philosophers who mistake that "I am unlimited consciousness," no. If you deliberate, if you think wisely, then you are not unlimited consciousness. Your consciousness cannot approach my perception. Therefore I am limited consciousness. But because I have got consciousness, you have got consciousness, we are living soul, therefore the Supreme Soul, He has got His consciousness, and that is unlimited consciousness.



*This, this subject matter is very nicely described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Thirteenth Chapter. Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find there that kṣetra-jñāṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu pāṇḍava [Bg. 13.3]. Kṛṣṇa says that "My dear Arjuna, this body is kṣetra, is field of activities. So your body is field of activities, and similarly, there are all the living entities, they have got their different kinds of field of activities. But the actor who is occupier of the field, he is called kṣetra-jñā. And the field, or this body, is called kṣetra. So in every kṣetra, or in every field, there is a owner of this field of activities, but so far I am concerned, I am situated in all the kṣetras and all the fields." That means God is situated both within your heart, within my heart, in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. This is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that the Supreme Lord, by His plenary expansion, by Paramātmā expansion, He is situated in everyone's heart. Therefore, what you are feeling individually, that is known to God. What you are thinking individually, that is known to God. What I am thinking individually, that is known to God. Therefore we cannot hide anything from God. He is situated within.

*So if you are sincerely in God's service, if you are sincerely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, He knows it. He knows it that you are not anxious. So he will give you intelligence so that you can make progress towards God. And, if you don't want, if you want to make progress in this material change of bodies, then God will give you such intelligence so that you can make your advancement materially. He has given you full freedom. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo [Bg. 15.15]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find this verse, that He is situated in everyone's heart, and He is giving intelligence. If you want to enjoy this material world by changing different... Because you have to change your body. You are making your next body in this body. There is no certainty what kind of body you are making, but you are responsible for making your next body. As I have several times discussed that the, at the time of death, the mental condition will help you to have another next body, mental condition. So if your mental condition is very nice, whatever you think, God has given you chance: you get next immediately. Similarly, if you think of Kṛṣṇa, then your next body is like Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so important. What is the advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness? If you acquire the body like Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda vigraha [Bs. 5.1], eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, then your botheration of this constant change of bodies, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], you become relieved from this business. Nobody wants this, but because we want to enjoy this material world, so we have to accept it. So this is going on. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo [Bg. 15.15].

buddher jāgaraṇaṁ svapnaḥ

suṣuptir iti vṛttayaḥ

tā yenaivānubhūyante

so 'dhyakṣaḥ puruṣaḥ paraḥ

[SB 7.6.25]



Now he's giving another hint, that "We have got our three stages of activities." What are those? Intelligence. We are working intelligently while we are awake. Just like we are not asleep, so whatever we work, oh, we work very intelligently, as far as we have got intelligence. Then when we sleep, our intelligence stops. Then mind works. So according to the mind, mind is taking me sometimes somewhere. I am thinking that "I am flying." I am thinking, "I am on somebody's place" or "I have become king." Or "I have become poverty." Or "Somebody is... Some tiger is eating me," and so many things, you sleeping, you dreaming. This is another stage, active stage. Then sleeping stage. And then another stage is which is called deep sleep, deep sleep. Just like you are under chloroform or LSD. That is a kind of sleep only. It is not, does not mean that you have become free from this material bondage. You are simply under some mental condition, sleeping condition. Suṣuptiḥ. Just like our death. What is this death? Death means a sound sleep for seven months. That's all. A sound sleep for seven months. As soon as I give up this body, I enter into another body in sound sleep. And sound sleep, just like you are sleeping sound, somebody is taking you away to another place. You do not know. I have got experience. I have got, underwent some, some surgical operation. So I was under chloroform. So I did not know when I was operated, when I was in the operation table, then who brought me again to my bed. And in this way I did not... But when gradually I got my consciousness, I remember still, that I am sleeping, and then I am dreaming. Then I come to consciousness, active consciousness. This is the position.



*So there are three stages. So when you are very sound sleep, you do not know what is happening, but you are still there. You are not dead. Therefore soul is never dead, even it is unconscious. Just remember this chloroformic condition. You were not dead. Similarly, when you change your body, by nature's way, you wanted certain kind of body, so nature takes you. Nature takes you to such a father and mother and you are placed into the semina of similar father, and by sexual intercourse the father puts the semina in the mother's body, and the mother develops your body, particular. If you are put into the mother dog, then you develop the body of a dog. And if you are put in the mother god, then you develop the body of a god. This the process. Daive, uh, daiva*-netreṇa. That carrying out, from this body to another body, that is not in your hands. That is not scientific, scientist's hand or experimental, I say, philosopher's hand. It is completely under the hand of the material nature. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says that daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. The material nature is so powerful that your so-called fighting against the material nature is simply waste of time. You cannot. You cannot, by material science, transfer yourself from this planet to another planet or according to your desire. No. That will be managed by laws of nature, material nature. So you are transferred. You are transferred to a certain body, and you develop a similar body, and then you come out and enjoy. Because you wanted to enjoy certain type of things, so unless you have got certain type of body... Just like the hog: it wanted to eat certain types of nonsense, so therefore it has been given the body so that it can very pleasantly eat stools. You see? Without that hog's body, nobody can eat stool.

So our different kinds of body is being offered by material nature as we want it, and we are enjoying this material world. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that,

buddher jāgaraṇaṁ svapnaḥ

suṣuptir iti vṛttayaḥ

tā yenaivānubhūyante

so 'dhyakṣaḥ puruṣaḥ paraḥ

[SB 7.6.25]



*Now, our point is: never mind what kind of body we are getting next, but I am existing. Whether I am intelligently working during the time when I am awake, or whether I am working under dreams, or whether I am being transferred to another body-I am having sound sleep under chloroform*-I am the same. I am the same. I am that eternal soul. This is self-realization. So under all circumstances, either this body or that body, either sleeping or working or under sound sleep, any condition, I am there. This is my identification.



*ebhis tri*-varṇaiḥ paryastair

*buddhi*-bhedaiḥ kriyodbhavaiḥ

svarūpam ātmano budhyed

gandhair vāyum ivānvayāt

[SB 7.6.26]



*So how I am being carried to different kinds of body, although I am the eternal and existing? How? Now, the very example is here, that gandhair vāyum. Just like vāyu. Vāyu means air. Air is passing through a, I mean to say, garden of rose. So air is carrying the flavor. The aroma of rose is being carried by the air. Now the air is passing through some filthy place, obnoxious, very bad smell, so air is catching. So air has neither this flavor, nor this bad or good. But as it is passing on, according to the association, it is getting certain time of, certain type of flavor and aroma. Similarly, by your association, you are getting different types of body. If you make your association with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you get next your Kṛṣṇa body. And if you make your association with non*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll have this material body, and you have to undergo birth and death repeatedly.



Thank you very much. Any question? [break]

Guest (1): ...how I become unconscious when I die?



Prabhupāda: You are never unconscious.



Guest (1): You mean I experience the seven months of being in a sleeping state?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (1): And I am aware of it?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You were aware, but you were a little deep, deep sleep. Just like I remember my chloroform case. So I remember very slightly, but there is remembrance. The consciousness is still there, but for some time it is curbed down. So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious once, even if at that time you are so*-called unconscious, still, Kṛṣṇa is with you. He is not forgetful. He is not forgetful. Therefore He will give you the proper result. Don't think that at the, at the time of your death, because you are so completely out of consciousness, therefore there is frustration. No. There is no frustration. There is no frustration. Because your activities are already recorded by the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is situated within your heart, so therefore there is no question of frustration. You just practice. While you are in good health, while you are in good body, while you are in good consciousness, just practice this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and the result is guaranteed.



Guest (2): Does any physical change take place in your body when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious?



Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many physical changes. We have seen it practically. Yes. Some of our students, so long he was here, he was so nice. He was so glowing. And as soon as he has left, he has become just like damn rascal. Yes. We are experiencing practically. There are so many instances. Because my face is the index of mind, so similarly, what is going on within you, that will be reflected. That will be reflected. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asked that "How can I understand...?" One of His disciples inquired from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "How can I understand that a man is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" He immediately replied, "If you see a man and at once you remember Kṛṣṇa, you must know that he is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." It is such a nice thing. By seeing the face, by seeing the appearance of a person, if you remember Kṛṣṇa, you should know that "This man is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So there is change of physical feature also.



Guest (2): Isn't that a mental manifestation, like if you feel that someone's Kṛṣṇa conscious? It's not a physical manifestation, right?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, physical, physical change, physical, I mean to say, body is no impediment simply because you are aloof from physical body always. That we have explained. So if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then your physical impediments will not be a check. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. You'll feel yourself transcendentally joyful in spite of your physical, present physical body. You'll... Just like if you eat, you'll know yourself that you are eating, you are feeling strength, you are getting enlightened, similarly, if you take this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in spite of your present physical body, you'll know that you are having something transcendental. That feeling will come with you.



Guest (3): Is that a feeling of unity with the universe?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Guest (3): A feeling of oneness with the universe?



Prabhupāda: Well, when you feel Kṛṣṇa, that is, He is... Kṛṣṇa is the central point. If you know what is milk, then you know what is butter, what is cheese, what is yogurt, everything, because everything is milk product. So if you know Kṛṣṇa, everything is Kṛṣṇa product, so you know everything. That is universal knowledge. That is oneness. When you know what is milk, then, in spite of so many varieties of preparation of milk, you know it is milk. That is oneness. When you know, understand Kṛṣṇa, that "Whatever we are seeing, in our presence, experiencing, they're all different energies of Kṛṣṇa..." Just like you are sitting here, and if there is fire, you, you see the li..., by the light of the fire, it is illuminated. By the heat of the fire, you are feeling warm. So whatever there is, it is due to fire. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to understand Kṛṣṇa, and as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything. That is stated in the Vedic language, yasmin eva vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavati: "One who understands that one Supreme, he understands everything immediately." There is no need of understanding separately or analyzing things separately. That will defeat. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means real oneness. But that oneness is not of the oneness of the impersonalists. That oneness is a little different. It is called śuddhādvaita, pure oneness. In spite of that being one Kṛṣṇa, He is manifested by His different varieties of energies. Just like the fire. Fire is one, electricity is one, but it is acting in different varieties. It is acting in your refrigerator. It is acting in your heater. It is acting in your machine. It is acting in your television. Act... Everywhere. But the what is that? That electricity. Similarly, if you understand electricity, as of Kṛṣṇa, then you understand your whole thing, one. But there are varieties. Just like in electricity there are so many varieties at work. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (alarm clock buzzes for second time) (aside:) You stop this disturbance. (end)





670313SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.25-28

-

San Francisco, March 13, 1967



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)



buddher jāgaraṇaṁ svapnaḥ

suṣuptir iti vṛttayaḥ

tā yenaivānubhūyante

so 'dhyakṣaḥ puruṣaḥ paraḥ

[SB 7.6.25]



This verse we have been discussing in our last meeting, that it is very easy to understand what I am. Take the... The description is that buddher jāgaraṇam. When we are, I mean to say, awakened, and we are acting with our intelligence, this is one stage. Then the another stage, that we are sleeping, dreaming. Another stage is that we are in deep sleep, forgetting everything. That is suṣuptiḥ, or deep sleep. Sometimes we want to forget ourself by transferring ourself into that deep sleep, forgetting everything. Actually, that is our natural tendency. When we are too much afflicted with these material activities, anxieties... Because material life means full of anxieties. That is material life.



*That is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by his father, "My dear boy, what best thing you have learned from your teachers? Will you kindly explain?" So he answered immediately, tat sādhu manye: "To my opinion, my dear father, that is very nice thing." What is that? Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ asad-grahāt sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Dehinām means those who have accepted this material body. There are many millions and millions, unlimited number of liberated souls in the spiritual world. They have not accepted this material body. We are conditioned souls. So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that "For those who have accepted this material body, and due to acceptance of this material body, they are always full of anxiety..." Nobody can say that "I am freed from all anxiety," beginning from a person lying on the street, up to..., go to the President Johnson. Ask everybody, "Are you free from material anxiety?" Everyone says, "No." Everyone has got some problem. That is material existence. So sometimes, when we are disgusted with this material life, we want to forget, forget all the things. Sometimes a man takes to drinking: "Oh, business anxiety, so many worries, cannot solve. Let me drink. Annh." So sometimes we take to LSD or other intoxicants, gañja, pan. So this is... There is a tendency for suṣuptiḥ, going to the stage of suṣuptiḥ. Sometimes they take injection to sleep soundly. Now there are sleeping pills also, so many things. So actually, as pure spirit soul, I want to forget, but because I do not accept the real path, how to get out of this material existence, therefore we have to accept something, concocted means. That will not save us. That will not save us.

*Prahlāda Mahārāja says, sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt hitvātma-ghataṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. Prahlāda Mahārāja said to his father, "My dear father, if somebody quits this scene of gṛham andha-kūpam, a dark well of this material life, and goes to the forest and takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, oh, that is very nice thing." That was the beginning of misunderstanding between the father and mother..., father and the son. The father expected that Prahlāda Mahārāja will explain something diplomacy, politics, technology, something like that. "Oh, what is this foolish boy is explaining, that one should go away from the scene and take shelter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Oh. The teacher has taught them all nonsense." So he became angry, and the misunderstanding between the father and the son began from that point. But he was devotee, fully Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he told the plain thing, "Yes, unless one comes to this platform, that that platform, the material platform to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace and prosperity." It is simply, I mean to say, artificial trying to forget this full of anxious life. It is not possible. When one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, automatically he forgets this nonsense. Just like I have several times given you the example: You have got a glass. If you fill it up with milk, then there is no possibility of its being filled up with ink. But so long it is filled up with ink, there is no possibility of its being filled up with milk. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is milk, and material consciousness is ink. So if you want to black milk, then let us remain. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu suggests Or accepts, not suggests. It is already there in the Vedic literature, that sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. (children yelling outside, devotee chases away) (aside:) That's all right. Don't take much.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He talked with Rāmānanda Rāya, there was many forms of discussions, how to make oneself perfect. So he recommended so many things. But when he recommended, Rāmānanda Rāya, that sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. We should always remember that this material life is our diseased condition. It is not our healthy life. Because as spirit soul, we are healthy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature we are joyful. There is no question of our being morose, unhappy, diseased. No. Spiritual life, spirit as it is, it is The constitution is blissful, full of knowledge and eternal. That is spiritual life, actual, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. So we are not actually, I mean to say, constitutionally, we are unhappy. Our happiness is our life. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. In the Vedānta-sūtra, you'll find that this verse, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. As God is full of joy, similarly, we are also part and parcel of God; *we are also full of joy. So we have to treat ourself, how to go that platform of joyfulness. That is explained in the Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. You can simply become joyful, without any anxiety. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ: when you understand yourself, when you understand your spiritual existence. That is Brahman Prahlāda Mahārāja analytically, self-analysis.

*So that spiritual existence*-Prahlāda Mahārāja, he is giving hint here that "We have got three stages of our existence. Sometimes we are active, sometimes we are sleeping, and sometimes we are deeply sleeping. But within these three stages of our existence, I am there." When I am active, I am there. When I am sleeping, I am dreaming, I am there. And when I am in deep sleep, I am there. And when again, I am awakened, I am there. In no case I am not there. I am there always. So buddher jāgaraṇam. So one has to apply his good intelligence. Then this "I am," which is existing in all the stages, that is "I am spirit soul." Tā yenaivānubhūyante. I am... I am perceiving that "Oh, yesterday I was sleeping." That sleeping condition is passed, but I am here. I am thinking, "Oh, I was sleeping yesterday like this. I was dreaming like this." Therefore, I am the chief, adhyakṣaḥ. I am the chief controller. So I am... This "I am," it is very easy to understand. Any intelligent man can understand. So there are so many yogis. They are trying to understand, "What I am?" This is "I am." It can be understood in a few seconds if you are intelligent enough. There is no question of prolonging simply to understand "What I am?" You are this. So only to understand that if I am not this body, which is dreaming, which is awakened, which is sleeping, so many conditions... It is changing from boyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So then I have to understand that "If I am eternal then what is my eternal business? Now I am engaged with this temporary business. Because I am born in this land, America, so America has become my country. So I am called for going to Vietnam. Because I am born American, I have to go. But if I am not this body, I am something else, eternal, then what is my eternal engagement? This is my bodily engagement." Everything is our bodily engagement. So Cai... Prahlāda Mahārāja asking us, tā yenaivānubhūyante so 'dhyakṣaḥ puruṣaḥ paraḥ. That puruṣa, that personality, is transcendental.

*ebhis tri*-varṇaiḥ paryastair

*buddhi*-bhedaiḥ kriyodbhavaiḥ

svarūpam ātmano budhyed

gandhair vāyum ivānvayāt

[SB 7.6.26]



So this ātmā is being transferred from one body to another. How it is being transferred? Just like air is passing from one field to another. Air is passing from this field to another field, another field, another field, and, as he's passing, as he's associating, the air, if it is passing over the nice, fragrant garden, it is, I mean to say, taking with him, with it, the nice flavor, and if it is passing in nasty place, then it is taking the bad smell. Similarly, we are passing from one body to another, and according to the atmosphere we are creating here in this body, we are taking again, transferring ourself to another body.



etad dvāro hi saṁsāro

*guṇa*-karma-nibandhanaḥ

*ajñāna*-mūlaḥ apārtho 'pi

puṁsaḥ svapna ivārpyate

[SB 7.6.27]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, etad dvāraḥ hi saṁsāraḥ. Material existence means we are passing on, I mean to say, do not know how long we are passing. They say, "We cannot remember," "Time immemorial." This is called saṁsāra. This is called material existence. Etad dvāro hi saṁsāro guṇa*-karma-nibandhanaḥ. And this material body is there due to my material qualities and according to the quality, my work; *and these two things are binding me. Guṇa*-karma-vibhāga. So here the caste system, according to guṇa, according to quality, and karma, according to work.



*Now Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa that nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Trai*-guṇya-viṣayā-vedā nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna: "My dear Arjuna, this world is moving on the platform of these material modes: goodness, passion and ignorance. And the whole Vedic literature, or scriptures, they are meant for transcendenting one from this platform to the spiritual platform." So Arjuna was advised, nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna: "Just get out of yourself, get out yourself from this entanglement of three guṇas and their work." So Prahlāda Mahārāja is similarly advising, "This is saṁsāra. This is material existence." And what is the basic principle of this material existence? Ajñāna, ignorance, because I have forgotten that I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. This is ajñāna. Ajñāna-mūlaḥ apārtho 'pi puṁsaḥ svapna ivārpyate. Although it is just like dream, say, ten years before or twenty years before, oh, I was in India. I was a family man. I was sitting with my wife and children and doing something else. Now that thing is now dream. So we are passing... Just like at night we dream something, so this is also another kind of dream, because this is concrete dream, and at night we see abstract dream. The quality is dream. Sometimes we are in abstract dream, and sometimes we are in concrete dream. This is also dream. We do not know how many lives we have passed before this, hundreds and thousands and millions. "Oh, sometimes I have been a cat." Oh, that is now dream. Sometimes I might have been a dog. Not might have been, because the evolution is there. We are coming by evolutionary process from aquatics to vegetable life, from vegetable to, I mean to say, reptile life, then, from bird's life, then beast's life, then uncivilized life. Then we have come to the civilized form of life under the grip of nature. So we have passed so many status of life. So they have become now dream. If somebody says, "Oh, forty millions of years before, you were a tree," so will you believe it? It is dream. But actually I was, by nature's law.

*So we have got this opportunity, this human form of life with sense so that we can understand the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, or Bible or Koran. These are meant for civilized human society. So if we don't take care of these things and simply pass on in this dreaming... Just like animals. They have no sense, simply eating, mating, sleeping and defending. "Gow! Gow! Gow!" As soon as another dog comes, oh, he at once barks, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" So this is dog's qualification. So this defending is also like that. It is defending in its own way. We are defending in our own way. So we must be above this, transcendental, as advised by Kṛṣṇa. Nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna: "Just become transcendental to these qualitative activities." And what is that unqualitative, uncontaminated activity? Oh, that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



"Anyone who takes to this business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness..." Māṁ ca yo avyabhicāreṇi bhakti. Avyabhicāreṇi means without any material contamination, pure devotional service: "The Supreme Lord is my Lord. I am His eternal servant. My business is to serve Him, nothing more." This is called pure devotion. Either you call Kṛṣṇa or Jehovah, or whatever name you like, you give, but God is one. So if you simply become to this consciousness, that "I am eternal servant of God, and my business is to serve God..." And in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, there is other service. Just like we are giving this service. Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are spreading, why? It is not a business. But because we have established our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, we want to propagate it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to be aloof from this material world, but his activities are different. He is not in that activity which will create anxiety. Here we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Oh, there is no business. We don't expect anything from you. But if you accept it, then our mission is nice. If you don't accept it, so there is no anxiety.



*We are executing the will of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who takes up this responsibility of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, he is very dear to Me." Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' sarva deśa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also Kṛṣṇa in the form of devotee. He said that "By My order, you become a spiritual master." "Oh, I have to become a spiritual master? What I have to do? Oh, I have no qualification." "Oh, you don't require any qualification." "Then what is to do?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Whomever you meet, you just try to give him some instruction of Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you cannot do, if you cannot speak on Bhagavad-gītā or Bhāgavata or Bible or Koran-they're all books of knowledge, of Kṛṣṇa consciousness-you can simply say, "My dear friend, I've got one request to you." "What is that?" "Oh, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Is it very difficult? But this is very difficult also, because people will take it very lightly: "Oh, what is there, Hare Kṛṣṇa?" because he does not know that the Hare Kṛṣṇa has so much potency that one day you can catch the Supreme Personality of Godhead within your grip. It is got so potency, so much. But he will say, "Oh, what is this nonsense, Hare Kṛṣṇa? You chant. I don't like it." But it is your duty. He may take it or not take it. If you ask somebody, "My dear friend, please once chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," that is your duty finished. He may accept or not accept*-that doesn't matter. You have finished your spiritual mastership. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' sarva deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Yāre dekha tāre kaha... There is no question of who he is, what he is, where he is born, whether he is civilized, uncivilized, capitalist, communist or this or that, Indian, American, African. Never mind. Whatever he is, simply request him, "Oh, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Do yourself, chanting, and this will make you advanced, and the friend you meet, oh, he'll someday, because the, if he takes Even if he does not say, if he simply understands that "Here is something," and says, "Yes, it is very nice. It is very nice," then also, he gets the result.

tasmād bhavadbhiḥ kartavyaṁ

*karmaṇāṁ tri*-guṇātmanām

*bīja*-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ

pravāhoparamo dhiyaḥ

[SB 7.6.28]



*If you... Always remember that Prahlāda Mahārāja was talking with his child friends. So he says, tasmād bhavadbhiḥ kartavyam: "My dear friends, therefore it is your duty..." Kartavyaṁ karmaṇāṁ tri*-guṇātmanām, tri-guṇātmanām... "Now, these activities of three material qualities, or material activities," bīja-nirharaṇam, "the seed of these material activities, you should crush it." Seed. There is a seed. Just like there is a seed, and so along the seed will remain... Just like you have seen in the fall season, so many creepers, they appear to be dried. There is no leaf. It almost dead. But as soon as the spring comes, oh, there is green leaf again. Why? The seed is there. Sometimes in India they set fire because it is very hot climate, so when there is no rainy season and by..., the sun is always bright there, so all these small plants, except big trees, they become dried up, and the cultivators, they set fire, and it becomes manure. But what is the fire? In the fire the outer portion is burned, but the seed is there. The next rainy season, again they awaken. Again there is, again green, again dry, again set fire, again green. Why? Now, seed is there. Seed is there. What is that seed? Bīja-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ. You are trying to practice yoga, but you do not know how to crush the seed of material life. That is... This is bīja-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The more you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that seed, that material... What is that material seed? The material seed that "I want to lord it over everything, all resources." This is struggle. Everyone is trying. What is economic development or, what is called, the exact technical word? In a country... Undeveloped. Undeveloped country, and to develop. So what is this development? Development means to lord it over these material resources. That is the seed. That is the seed. Everyone is thinking that "I am the monarch of all I survey. Whatever I am seeing, I shall be the monarch. I shall be a Rockefeller. I shall be a Ford. I shall be this. I shall be that." But what is this "I shall be"? For few years I shall be like this, and then, according to my karma, according to my work, I'll leave this body here. I take another body, the "I shall be" finished.



*So therefore we are simply wasting our time, simply wasting, asat, simply wasting our time. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "It is your duty, my dear boys." Bīja*-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ pravāhoparamo dhiyaḥ: "So you just kill, destroy the seed and..., so that no more it will become green after getting some water." There are another example. They are called in India moya carpaka(?). Carpaka means bed bug. And I do not know what is the condition here. In India, the bed bug, they, during the winter season, you'll find just like a simple skin only, nothing. There is nothing. But as soon as the summer season comes, oh, they bite the bodies and become red, fatty, immediately. So similarly, sometimes we may become just like a skin, and as soon as there is a drop of water and a little impetus for material enjoyment, oh, we become immediately... So this is seed. So seed should be destroyed. What is that seed? How it can be destroyed? Now, I am thinking that "I am master." I have to think that "I am servant." That's all. I am thinking, "I am master of this material world." I have to think that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." That's all; nothing more.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this chanting of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, being engaged fully in the service of Kṛṣṇa, will gradually revive your pure consciousness, and you'll know, and you'll feel jolly. You'll feel jolly. Now we are serving. We are already serving. Now we are serving the cats and dogs and motorcar and this and that, so many things. Servant we are, because constitutionally I am servant. And because I am not servant of God or servant of Kṛṣṇa, that I have become servant of my dog. In the morning I go with my dog. The dog says, "Yes, stand up here." "Yes, I am standing." "Let me pass my stool." "Yes, my dear sir. It is very nice." So I am servant. But I have no shame that I have become servant of dog and I'm refuse to (be) servant of God. Such a foolish we are. You see? So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Just change this kindly. Don't become any more servant of..." Servant of dog means servant of your senses. That's all. We are here all servant of senses. That's all. A swami means master of the senses. "Oh, sense wants? Oh, my tongue wants immediately to smoke? There is some sensation. Oh, I must say, 'No. There is no smoking. Stop.' " Then you are master. And if you have become servant, "Oh, I want. Will you kindly give me a cigarette?" Because I am servant of cigarette. So you have to train yourself to become swami, master of your senses. Then everything is all right. Don't be servant of your senses. Servant you are. Just change your servitorship. Instead of becoming servant of senses, just become the servant of the master of the senses. The master of senses is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is called Hṛṣīkeśa. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Devotional service means to serve the master of the senses with your purified senses. That's all. You haven't got to stop your sensual activities, but now you are serving the senses by the dictation of the senses. Now, while you will serve the master of the senses, then your perfection will come.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is advising, "My dear boyfriends," tad bīja*-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ, "you practice yoga just to become master of your senses." Not that officially I sit down, fifteen minutes' meditation, and next moment I am master of my senses. This is not yoga. Here it is called bīja-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ. Just practice such kind of yoga by which you can kill the seed of your servant of this material world.

Thank you very much. Any questions?

Guest (1): What are the activities of the soul when it unites with God? Does it simply enjoy everything or does it still...?



Prabhupāda: You can perceive the activities of the soul even in your present state. That I am explaining, that the soul's activities is to serve. So we are serving dog. We have to serve God. That is soul's activities, real. Simply the difference is that instead of dog, we have to change the word-"God." The service is already there. Your activities are already there. You are not stopped. It is not a new thing. Service is already there. Just like India has become independent, or you have become independent. Now, there were government servants. Before independence declared, they were servant in the same office. And now the Britishers have gone away, Indians are controlling their own management. The same servant is there. Now he's thinking, "I am independent." And what independence? You are serving here still. In the British period, you also served, and you are serving. What is your independence? "Oh, now I am serving my own country." That's all, rubberstamp change. For imperial government, "His Majesty," now the rubber is "India government." The rubber stamp is changed. So you have to change your rubber stamp. Instead of serving dog, you have to serve God. That's all. Change your rubber stamp. Is it very difficult? So please try to change your rubber stamp. That's all. Yes.



Guest (2): I have a question.



Prabhupāda: Yes?



Guest (2): What's the purpose of deep sleep as one of the bases of our life?



Prabhupāda: Deep sleep is forgetfulness. That's all.



Guest (2): Forgetfulness when I sleep, but...



Prabhupāda: Yes, when you become tired, you, or by intoxication, you sleep deep. This is material existence. Either this material activity or material dreaming or material deep sleep, they're all material. In spiritual life, oh, there is no sleep. There is no deep sleep or slight sleep or dream. That is everything actual. (pause) Any other questions?



Guest (1): When you're actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, what... My question before, I meant, when you're actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, do you just exist and know all and enjoy all, or do you have any activities at that time?



*Prabhupāda: Well, unless you have got enjoyment, how can you continue your activities? Do you think that in any activity which you, in which you do not feel happy or enjoy, can you continue that activity? No. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness means the more you become active in Kṛṣṇa conscious, the more you become joyful. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). That means your real life becomes revealed, joyful life. And as you become joyful, so you are more energetic to work for Kṛṣṇa. That will give you impetus. It is not a dead, stereotyped thing. It is dynamic force. The more you work for Kṛṣṇa, the more you feel energetic, the more you feel light. It is practical. Ask so many students. They are feeling, yes, joyful. There are so many attraction of material life. Oh, how they can forget? How they can forget? Especially in your country, there are so many facilities of material enjoyment, and how they can forget all these unless they have got some enjoyment? So it is practical. The more you engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the more you feel joy, joyer. That is joyful life. In the Caitanya-cari..., Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam means there is an ocean of joy. Now this ocean is stagnant; *it does not increase. But that ānandāmbudhi, the ocean of joy, transcendental bliss, that increases, increases. And there is unlimited space also to allow that increment. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanam: "In every step you'll feel, oh, that spiritual bliss." Paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam: "All glories to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Saṅkīrtana." Just like in the morning lecture, we were, er, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is explaining His practical experience, how He's feeling joyful. So this is practical. There is nothing theoretical. This is standard, practical and easy. This is the beauty of this movement. Yes?



Bhaktijana: If you become a, you become a servant of Kṛṣṇa, will He provide a way for you to meet your physical needs?



*Prabhupāda: Well, you are, if you become Kṛṣṇa..., servant of Kṛṣṇa... It is! Not to become. You are already. Just like a person, a citizen of United States, he's under, already under the obligation of the state. If he thinks that "I am not under obligation," that is his madness. Similarly, you are already servant of Kṛṣṇa, but you are declaring yourself that "No, I am not servant of God. I am servant of dog." So that is your madness. The sooner you give up your madness, it is better. There is no question... If you becoming a servant of dog, your everything is supplied by somebody, but do you think that becoming servant of God, nothing will be supplied to you? If God is so poor that if He can supply the necessities of a servant of dog, and He'll not supply the necessities of a servant of God? Why do you think like that? You see, in our Society, we are all servants of God. Do you think we have got any want? We have got everything full. This Kīrtanānanda, he has gone to Montreal. He is spending five hundred dollars every month, and he went from here without a farthing. Here is the practical example. So don't think like that. God is not so poor. Everything belongs to God. So, if you are sincere, oh, God will supply you everything. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "One is engaged in My service, yoga-kṣema, for his necessities." Yoga-kṣema means "Whatever he has got, for protecting those things, and whatever he has not got, to supply those things, I am responsible." So it is the question of belief and practical engagement. The more you become faithful, the more you become convinced, "Yes, God is my master. Yes, Kṛṣṇa is my master. He's supplying everything." But he cannot be your servant. Mind that. If you make God your order-supplier-"My dear God, I am in need of something for my sense enjoyment. Please supply"*-that He will not agree. Therefore those who go to God for sense enjoyment and become frustrated, they say, "There is no God." This atheism and declaration that there is no God, it is a question of sense gratification. So God is not meant for satisfying your senses. You are meant for satisfying God's senses. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And because the atheist class, they do not want to serve the senses of God, therefore they make imperson. As soon as we make God impersonal, there is no sense that "I have now to supply." And here to see the picture: God is eating. God is eating. He has become so dependent on His devotee that, if the devotee will give Him something to eat, then He will eat. So that is the position. There is a position like that. By love, God will be... Instead of yourself becoming dependent on God, God will become dependent on you. There is such a stage. God will ask you, "My dear father, will you give Me something to eat?" There is stage like that. It is stage, a platform of love. By love everything is possible. All right, let us have saṅkīrtana. (end)





710911sb.mom

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.28, 32-35

-

Mombassa, September 11, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...how to make progress in bhakti*-yoga, or bīja-nirharaṇam. I have explained several times, bīja-nirharaṇam [SB 7.7.28]. There is bīja, the propensity for lording it over the material nature, resources, that is the bīja of materialistic life. How to become a very great personality within this material world. The bhakti-yoga is just the opposite. Here everyone is trying to become greater than the other. But bhakti-yoga is so nice, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches us, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, servant of the servant of the servant of the servant. The more you become servant of the servant, the more you advance. And here in this material, the more you become greater than your friend, then you are (indistinct). That means more you become implicated. More... Just like the same example, the more you increase your temperature, you are facing death. Certain temperature is required, 98 degrees. But if you simply increase your temperature, "Oh, it is very nice," then at 107 degrees you finish. So this material improvement means meeting death. Let us come to the point. The nationalism is competition, which nation is greater. Now they have manufactured atomic bomb. That means finishing point they have come to.



*So bīja*-nirharaṇam. This propensity we should always remember that "I shall be greater than him, I shall overlord him." Just like my Godbrothers. The propensity is that "Oh, he has become greater than us," they are very envious. Their propensity is to become but they could not, they are therefore envious. This is materialism. There is no spiritual sense here. In the material..., spiritual world, if somebody is greater in service, others, they appreciate, "How great he is, how he has advanced in Kṛṣṇa's service. We could not do it," the Rādhārāṇī's spirit. Why Rādhārāṇī is worshiped by the devotees? His (her) spirit is like that. If anyone, She finds a nice devotee of Kṛṣṇa, She immediately recommends to Kṛṣṇa, "How nice this devotee. He can render better service than Me. Please accept him." This is spiritualism. This is spiritualism. Who can give better service than Rādhārāṇī? She is so great that She is captivating Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa captivates Madana, Cupid. But Rādhārāṇī captivates Kṛṣṇa. How great She is. Rādhe jaya jaya mādhava-dayite. We pray always,

*tapta*-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi

rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari

*vṛṣabhānu*-sute devi

*praṇamāmi hari*-priye



[I offer my respects to Rādhārāṇī, whose bodily complexion is like molten gold and who is the Queen of Vṛndāvana. You are the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and You are very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa.]



*The most dear, most beloved by Kṛṣṇa is Rādhārāṇī, and She is so humble. As soon as a humble devotee approaches Rādhārāṇī by glorifying Kṛṣṇa, immediately She accepts, "Oh, how great he is, he is doing greater service than Me." That is mahā*-bhāgavata's darśana. Mahā-bhāgavata sees that everyone is engaged in service, therefore he has no discrimination. But don't imitate like that. So bīja-nirharaṇam, the bīja you should always understand. Material bīja means the propensity to rule over this material world better or greater than others. That is materialism. And therefore, Kṛṣṇa's first condition is that "You give up all this nonsense, please surrender unto Me." They are (indistinct) Prahlāda Mahārāja said, bīja-nirharaṇam, bhakti-yoga. The more one advances in bhakti-yoga, he is become humbler, because he has nothing to do with this material world. Suppose a devotee is addressed by ill names. What does he care for it? Or if he is addressed by some good names. What does he care for it? One should be callous to all these so-called good names and bad names, because we do not belong to this material world. If I say that "I am so great, I am this, I am brāhmaṇa, I am..." So what shall I do, taking this brahmanism of greatness of this material world? Bīja-nirharaṇam, yoga. This bhakti-yoga is called killing or importing the seed of ruling over this material world.



So the beginning is guru-śuśrūṣayā, we have explained, by service to the spiritual master with love, bhaktyā, not officially. Officially doing something and internally doing something, then that will not be successful. Actually with brain and with love and affection, service.

guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā

*sarva*-labdhārpaṇena ca



*Sarva*-labdhārpaṇena. Śrīdhara Swami comments on the sarva-labdhārpaṇena means sarveṣāṁ sādhyanam ātmanena. Sādhya means respect. Whatever highest respect you have got, that should be offered to the spiritual master. Sarva-sādhya-paṇena(?). Then tat-pādāmburuha..., tat-pādāmburuha-dhyānāt..., tat-pādāmburuha-dhyānāt tat liṅga ārhaṇa ādi. Īkṣa ārhaṇa ādi. So the linga. Linga means the form, the Deity. Tat-pādāmburuha-dhyānāt. Always meditating upon the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. This Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... As soon as we hear this sound, immediately we remember the form of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately we concentrate on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. This chanting is perfect. But I am chanting and I am thinking of and planning something else, that is aparādha. But that does not mean we shall stop. But we should try, abhyāsa-yoga, we should try to make it our habit by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we should immediately remember the form, quality, pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. Tat-pādāmburuha-dhyānāt. The lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, dhyānāt, that is meditation. Tat-pādāmburuha-dhyānāt tal-liṅgekṣārhaṇādibhiḥ. To come to the temple, Deity worship is meant for that purpose, just to see the form of Kṛṣṇa so that we may remember. Always, 24 hours we can see. It is not idol worship. The rascal atheists, they can say like that, but our process is this. Guru-sevā, offering all respect to guru, and always thinking of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, seeing His forms in the temple, worshiping Him as they are described, as they are prescribed in the śāstras, this is the process. Tal-liṅgekṣārhaṇādibhiḥ. Tasya liṅgānām mūrtinām īkṣaṇa, īkṣaṇam ca arhaṇam ca ādi yeṣām bandhanādinam tasya(?).



*So this is one of the process that not only one should serve the spiritual master with faith and love, but he should always think of Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophy is..., they say that "You think of the spiritual master, he is God." That is Māyāvādī. Just like we have been in Surat, there is some Rāma Mandir without Rāma. This is rascaldom. They have placed their photo of spiritual master but no Deity. This is Māyāvādī. Ours is not like that. Ours is side by side. Not only spiritual master, his spiritual master, his spiritual master, along with the Deity. Tat liṅgam, we are calling(?) the form. So tasya liṅgānām mūrtinām. Liṅga means mūrti. The liṅga is sometimes... Some liṅga is also... Just like śrī*-liṅga, pūr-liṅga, the feminine gender, masculine gender. So here liṅga also means the mūrti, the form. Liṅga means whether he is a puruṣa, or he is a woman or man, or his form. Liṅgānām mūrtinām. Mūrtinam īkṣaṇa. Īkṣaṇa means seeing. Therefore, the Deities should be very nicely decorated, the temple should be very much cleansed, all-attractive. People may come and immediately become attracted by the Deities, īkṣaṇam, with devotion. That is the system of temple worship. Unclean temple worship or no decoration, no flower, this is useless. If you want to introduce temple worship, that should be properly done so that any man who comes immediately become attracted with the form, īkṣaṇam. That facility should be given to the ordinary man. If he comes and he hears the chanting, the kīrtana, the bell sound, the karatāla sound, in this way gradually he becomes attracted. As we have seen, many students come in this way. They live and they become devotee. So these chances should be given. These chances should be given, according to śāstra, according to Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Tat liṅga īkṣa arhaṇa-ādibhiḥ.

hariḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

bhagavān āsta īśvaraḥ

iti bhūtāni manasā

kāmais taiḥ sādhu mānayet

[SB 7.6.32]



*Another thing is harīḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu bhagavān ananta īśvaraḥ. So we should practice to see every man as the temple, every man, every living entity, because Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Antaryāmī or Paramātmā is residing with every living entity. So in higher status, a devotee sees everybody as temple of God, because the God is there. So this should be also practiced. As we respect a temple or a church, similarly, we should give respect to all living entities. Harīḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu bhagavān ananta īśvaraḥ. Bhagavān ananta. If some foolish person says how God can be in every..., within everybody? No, He is ananta, He is unlimited, He can be, that is His omnipotency. Bhagavān ananta īśvaraḥ, iti bhūtāni manasā kāmais taiḥ sādhu mānayet. In this way, we should offer respect to everyone. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, amāninā mānadena, give respect to everyone and for yourself don't expect any respect. One may insult you, don't mind, but you give respect to others. Just see how bhakti*-yoga is perfect.



*Evaṁ nirjita-ṣaḍ*-vargaiḥ kriyate bhaktir īśvare. This practice will gradually enhance your devotion, at the same time your strong senses eager to enjoy this material world will be cut down. That is called breaking the poison teeth of the serpents, sense serpents. Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. For a devotee there is no danger from the senses because his senses are engaged in the service of the Lord. So he is the greatest yogi. Yogi means who are trying to control the senses. That is by practice, by mechanical practice, that's all. But here there is no mechanical practice. Here it is factual activity, how to control the senses. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hṛṣīka means the senses. The senses are engaged in the service of the Lord. If one thing is already engaged, it cannot be..., especially when one is engaged in the service of the Lord, he cannot be dragged to the service of māyā. Therefore, that is sense control. Sense you cannot extinguish. The living entity, you must have your senses. Living means you have got your senses. But they should be purified. They are now engaged in the service of māyā, and now, by bhakti-yoga process you have to purify and engage the senses in the service of the Lord. The eyes and hands, the legs, the tongue, the ear, all the senses. The eyes, instead of seeing very beautiful woman, see Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī. That sense perception is there, but it is spiritualized. The tongue wants go to restaurant and eat meat and drink wine, but engage the tongue in eating prasādam, that is control, that's all. Controlling, not that stop, lock up the tongue. Everything, every sense. Sex life. All right, if you can beget child to take care to raise him a Kṛṣṇa conscious, all right, have children. This is our sense control. Not artificially stopping them. No question of stopping. But utilize it for Kṛṣṇa's service, that is bhakti. That is bīja-nirharaṇam. You will never like to control over. Being controlled by the Supreme Lord, you will feel so much satisfaction that you will never like to control over, that is materialism.

*evaṁ nirjita-ṣaḍ*-vargaiḥ

kriyate bhaktir īśvare

vāsudeve bhagavati

yayā saṁlabhyate ratiḥ

[SB 7.6.33]



In this way, when he is fully engaged in the service of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, at that time he is fully satisfied, he is no more disturbed.



niśamya karmāṇi guṇān atulyān

*vīryāṇi līlā*-tanubhiḥ kṛtāni

*yadātiharṣotpulakāśru*-gadgadaṁ

protkaṇṭha udgāyati rauti nṛtyati

[SB 7.6.34]



*In this way, as he makes advance in spiritual life, then simply by niśamya karmāṇi guṇān atulyān, simply by hearing about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, immediately he will be filled up in ecstasy and he will cry. These are the symptoms. Niśamya karmāṇi guṇān atulyān, vīryāṇi līlā*-tanubhiḥ kṛtāni. Vīryān līlā, Kṛṣṇa is killing so many demons, Kṛṣṇa is dancing with gopīs, Kṛṣṇa is playing with His cowherd boys, Kṛṣṇa is going there, this is līlā, smaraṇam. The Kṛṣṇa book reading means remembering all these activities of Kṛṣṇa. Simply go on reading Kṛṣṇa book, repeat it, you are in the perfect stage of transcendental position. Simply read our Nectar of Devotion. Līlā, atulyān. Niśamya karmāṇi guṇān atulyān, vīryāṇi līlā-tanubhiḥ kṛtāni, yadātiharṣotpulakāśru-gadgadam. Pulakasru, in ecstasy. Pulaka is trembling and faltering voice and tears coming down, perspiring, these are (called) aṣṭa-sāttvika-vikāra [Cc. Antya 14.99]. Protkaṇṭha udgāyati rauti nṛtyati.



*yadā graha*-grasta iva kvacid dhasaty

ākrandate dhyāyati vandate janam

*muhuḥ śvasan vakti hare jagat*-pate

*nārāyaṇety ātma*-matir gata-trapaḥ

[SB 7.6.35]



Nirjita sāmyam kāma krodha lobha moha mada mātsa jana indriyāṇi nirvā varga jay bhagavat rathe liṅga saha(?). The symptoms of advancement, these are stated here. (end)





710912SB.MOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.30-31

-

Mombassa, September 12, 1971



Prabhupāda:



*saṅgena sādhu*-bhaktānām

īśvarārādhanena ca

[SB 7.7.30]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending how to begin bhakti*-yoga. Bhakti-yoga, the first beginning is ādau gurvāśrayam, as Rūpa Gosvāmī recommends. Ādau gurvāśrayam, the beginning, first beginning is to accept a bona fide spiritual master. Ādau gurvāśrayam, . Sad-dharma-pṛcchat. So it is not that official accepting a spiritual master, but one should be very much inquisitive to understand about eternal duty or eternal activities. Sad-dharma. Sat means eternal, and dharma means characteristics. Eternal characteristics. What is that eternal characteristics? With this body, we change our characteristics. That is not eternal characteristics. Just like a human body. The standard of living of a human being and the standard of living of an animal, different. As the body changes, the standard of living also changes. Therefore, they are not eternal. They are not eternal. Everyone is trying to live, struggle for existence, but these living conditions are different, according to the body. The body is made according to his destination of happiness and distress by superior authority. I cannot say that I will have such-and-such body my next life. But in one sense, if I am intelligent, I can prepare my next body. I can prepare my body to live in certain planets, in certain societies. Even you can go to the higher planets. And if I like, I can prepare my body to go to the abode of Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is the function. Human body is meant for that intelligence, that what kind of body I shall have in my next life? Just like a student educates himself with an ambition that "When I am grown up I shall have this standard of life. I shall become a high-court judge, I shall become a military man, I shall become a very good businessman." As there are different ambitions, similarly, for your next life also you can maintain different ambitions. That is in your hands. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25], if you are ambitious to elevate yourself... Just like people are trying to go to the moon planet, that is an ambition. But they are trying to fulfill the ambition wrongly. That is not the way, that we manufacture some machine and by force we enter into the moon planet. That is not possible. You have to undergo certain rules and regulations so that after quitting this body you are allowed to get a particular type of body suitable for a particular type of planet.



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Those who are desiring to enter into the higher planetary system where demigods live, Candraloka, Sūryaloka, Indraloka, Varuṇaloka, Vāyuloka, Brahmaloka, Dhruvaloka, Bhūr, Bhuvar, Svar, there are different millions of..., vibhūti*-bhinnam. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. In the brahmajyoti of Kṛṣṇa, there are innumerable planets. The spiritual portion, there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭhas. Vaikuṇṭha means... Kuṇṭha means anxiety. Where there is no anxiety, simply pleasure, that is our life. Here also we want a very happy life without any anxiety. That is our tendency. We try to make a very nice comfortable house, a very good bank balance, all secure so that I can live there very comfortably. That competition is going on. But that is not possible here. Here saṁsāra-dāvānala. This saṁsāra, it is meant for suffering. Dāvānala, just like forest fire. Nobody sets in the forest fire, but it takes automatically. So however you may try to live here comfortably, happily, peacefully, eternally, it is not possible. That is the difference between this temporary material manifestation and eternal, eternal Vaikuṇṭhaloka, spiritual world.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to prepare a body, next life, by approaching Kṛṣṇaloka. Kṛṣṇaloka, Vaikuṇṭhaloka, innumerable there are. This material manifestation of universes, here also there are innumerable universes. The one universe we are seeing or one solar system we are seeing, but there are innumerable solar systems. That is admitted by modern science also. So all these innumerable solar systems or brahmāṇḍas or universes, they form only one third manifestation of God's creation. Only one third. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. But the Vaikuṇṭhaloka is three*-fourth part. That is stated in the śāstras.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says to his demonic friends that "Stop this life in this material world." Bīja-nirharaṇam. We are in this material world simply by different desires. We are creating different desires, our material ambition. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Stop this." But stopping this..., people think that stopping this, then where is our next life? That they do not know. That is the difficulty. But we get information from śāstras, we get information from Bhagavad-gītā that "The place where you go and do not return back, that is My place." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Again, Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. There is a process. The process is simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ, not knowing superficially, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is a historical person. Some five thousand years ago, He took birth as the son of Devakī," like that. Everyone knows-at least every Indian knows*-and they observe Kṛṣṇa's birthday. That is beginning. But Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Absolute Truth, He is the origin of everything, He is the cause of all causes, that is not known. That one has to know. The brahmajyoti, impersonal jyoti is bodily effulgence. The brahmajyoti is resting on Kṛṣṇa. Brahmaṇo aham pratiṣṭha, Kṛṣṇa says. Just like the illumination in this room, prakāśa, is resting on this bulb. Although the illuminating light is spread all over this room, that is not original. The original is the bulb. Similarly, and from the śāstra we find, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam, tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ [Bs. 5.40]. That brahma ananta aśeṣa-bhūtam, unlimited. Yasya prabhā. This brahmajyoti is only effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11], Bhāgavata says. The Absolute Truth is one, that is Kṛṣṇa, advayam(?), but He is known in different features, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti. One who is trying to understand the Supreme Absolute Truth by dint of his sensual knowledge, by , I mean to say, exercising different knowledge, neti neti, they can approach up to the impersonal Brahman. And those who are yogis, those who are trying to find out the Absolute Truth within this body, they can realize up to Paramātmā. Brahmeti paramātmeti. And those who are on the highest planet, on the supreme platform of understanding, tattvataḥ, they realize that the Supreme Absolute Truth is the person, exactly a person like us.

*Just like in the Bible it is said, "Man is made after the form of God." Not that God is made after the form of man. Somebody imagines that his formation of Kṛṣṇa is a painting of an artist who by imagination they have painted very nice form of Kṛṣṇa, very good*-looking. No, that's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa is originally vibhus(?) Śyāmasundara. We get this information from Brahma-saṁhitā.

*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*He is Śyāmasundara. But He can be seen not by exercising our brain, our senses, our mind. He can be seen only by developing our dormant love for Kṛṣṇa. Premāñjana*-cchurita, not by other ways. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. By devotion, by love one can understand Him, not by sensual exercise or mental exercise, no. He does not say that "By jñāna, by cultivation of knowledge I can be known." No. He never says that cultivation of yoga. Yoga, by cultivation of knowledge, by cultivation of yoga you can understand Kṛṣṇa partially, not fully. Just like by cultivation of knowledge you realize Kṛṣṇa's bodily effulgence, brahma-jñāna. That is (?). Brahma-jñāna means Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], the original form of eternity, bliss, and knowledge. So Brahman realization means eternity realization. And Paramātmā realization means cit, or knowledge. But God realization, Kṛṣṇa realization means sac-cid-ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Supreme Lord is by nature full of bliss. You will see, therefore, Kṛṣṇa always blissful. Kṛṣṇa has no anxiety. Kṛṣṇa is killing a very big, big demon and He is taking pleasure and smiling. You have seen all these pictures in our Kṛṣṇa book, how He is killing the Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Dhenukāsura, Keśī, and so many asuras. Just like a child is playing with toys. And similarly, He is enjoying with His cowherd boyfriends, with girlfriends, gopīs, with His mother, everywhere Kṛṣṇa you will find ānandamayo. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12).



Kṛṣṇa is never morose or full of anxiety. Why? Why God should be full of anxiety? Kṛṣṇa, you will never find that He is in meditation. Whom He will meditate? He is the Supreme Personality of God Himself. You will find Lord Siva is in the pose of meditation, but you will never find Kṛṣṇa in meditation. Therefore, He is the Supreme Lord. And He says personally that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. "Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, just take it from Me. There is no other superior authority than Me." And that's a fact. So when Kṛṣṇa was present on this planet, He showed that nobody in the history of the world is superior than Kṛṣṇa. He showed as much as possible you can understand. Otherwise, still He has got immense power, unlimited power. So the point is Prahlāda Mahārāja is trying to convince his demon... The demons cannot understand that the God can be a person. That is demoniac. They cannot... Because they cannot understand, the difficulty is a demon tries to understand God, comparing with himself.

*Dr. Frog, that the story of Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog is trying to understand Atlantic Ocean comparing with his three*-feet well, that's all. When he is informed that there is Atlantic Ocean, he's simply comparing with his limited space. It may be four feet, or it may be five feet, it may be ten feet, because he is within the three feet. His friend informed, "Oh, I have seen a reservoir of water, vast water." So that vastness, he is just conjecturing, "How much the vastness may be? My well is three feet, it may be four feet, five feet," now he is going on. But he may go on millions of millions of feet it is still it is greater. That is another thing. Therefore, atheistic persons, demons, they think in their own way that God, Kṛṣṇa may be like this, Kṛṣṇa may be like this, Kṛṣṇa may be like this. Generally they think that Kṛṣṇa are I. How they say? Kṛṣṇa is not great. They do not believe that God is great. He thinks that God is as good as I am, I am also God. This is demonic.

*So this demonic principle, Prahlāda Mahārāja is trying to demolish this demonic mentality of his friends that "Don't try to be falsely puffed up to understand God. Take the process of bīja*-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ." This material world means we have got a seed of ambition that I want to become greater than everyone. I want to be the greatest businessman, I want to be the greatest personality, I want to be the greatest leader, the greatest, greatest, greatest, and there is comp... Everybody is trying to be greater than his friend so therefore, there is competition. But in Vaiṣṇava philosophy... Actually that is the philosophy, because we cannot be greater or greatest. Mattaḥ parataram. Nobody can be greater than God or equal to God, that is not possible. Even if he is Brahma, Lord Siva, or any other. Therefore, śāstra says that anyone who thinks such demigods, paratena. Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devam [Cc. Madhya 18.116], there is a verse like that, anyone who thinks Nārāyaṇa equal to Brahma or Lord Siva, then he..., that type of thinking is called pāṣaṇḍī, sa pāsaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam(?). Pāṣaṇḍī means atheist. Never, that is also one of the ten offenses in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you know that. One of the offense is when you think that any name will be as good as harer nāma. No. Otherwise, why śāstra says harer nāma harer nāma, three times stressing? Nāma, Holy Name means harer nāma, not any other name. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. There are many foolish persons, they say, "No, any name. You chant Durgā's name, you chant Kali's name, you chant Siva's name, you chant Kṛṣṇa's name, they're all the same. But no, they're not all the same. That is pāṣaṇḍī. That is pāṣaṇḍī. Kṛṣṇa or God is supreme.

*If I say, suppose somebody is sitting here with his subordinate servant. And if I say, "For me, you are all the same." So the master who is sitting, he will be insulted. Similarly, anyone who thinks that the Supreme Lord and the demigods are on the equal footing, that is offense. Therefore, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu warned that don't hear the interpretation of the Māyāvādīs. Māyāvādi*-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva nāśa [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. Anyone who tries to understand Māyāvāda philosophy, misunderstands, not understands, misunderstands, his future is doomed. Doomed means he will never be able to enter into this bīja-nirharaṇam, nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ. There are different kinds of yoga. This yoga is called bīja-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, bīja-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ pravāhoparamo dhiyaḥ. Now he is recommending that how this bīja-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ can be practiced. The first important thing is guru-śuśrūṣayā. Śuśrūṣayā means you have to satisfy the spiritual master, guru. Now suppose you are very big man and you have to serve a spiritual master. Therefore, you cannot serve any third-class man or anyone. You must be satisfied that here is a person I can render my service. I can accept as subordinate and I can...

*Therefore, what is that guru? Bhagavad*-gītā also says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Paripraśnena. Paripraśnena means inquiry. Ādau gurv-āśrayam, sad-dharma-pṛcchā. To accept a guru means to inquire from him about spiritual life, about transcendental situation. Not that fashion, "Oh, I have met a guru and he lives 300 miles away, I have no connection, no call for him(?)." No. Why the... The student should be very much inquisitive to learn, because accepting a guru is necessary for a person who is very much inquisitive to learn about the spiritual world. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Those who are not inquisitive to learn about the spiritual world, to learn about God, they need not keep a guru as a fashion, there is no need.

tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsu śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upasamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



*So the Vedas and all Vedic literature... Vedic literatures and Vedas, they are all the same, they are called śruti and smṛti. So, they recommend that if you..., tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you are actually you are anxious to learn that transcendental science, then you should accept, you should approach a bona fide spiritual master. Prahlāda Mahārāja also says the same thing, guru-śuśrūṣayā. Guru means heavy, or superior. So you can satisfy superior by your service, not by challenging, that is not possible. Guru-śuśrūṣayā. Guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā. And what kind of śuśrūṣayā? Bhaktyā. Just like a paid servant, he is also engaged in satisfying the master very nicely, very faithfully, but there is no bhakti. Why? Because he is after the money the master pays. He does not serve the master, but he serves the money. He is thinking always that "I am getting so much money from this person. If I don't satisfy him, then I may be dismissed. So I will have no money." But here it is said bhaktyā. Bhaktyā means without any, I mean to say, material concern. Bhakti is applicable in the spiritual world. Bhakti is transacted, the business of bhakti is transacted in the spiritual world. Or where there is devotional service, there is spiritual world, there is no material world. So guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā sarva*-labdhārpaṇena ca.

*So it is very difficult (indistinct). Just like Bali Mahārāja gave everything, everything. Sarva*-labdhārpaṇena, labdha means profit. So one should be prepared to sacrifice all profit, all gain to the spiritual master. I had one Godbrother, Professor Sannyal, he showed example. Of course, amongst our students there are many. They have dedicated their life, and what to speak of anything, everything. That is the process here, sarva-labdha arpaṇam. Arpaṇam means delivering, "Sir, I have got this. Here you are, you take this." Then śuśrūṣayā. So serve him with devotion, with faith, and giving him everything. Guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā sarva-labdhārpaṇena ca, saṅgena sādhu-bhaktānām. And in association with sādhu. Sādhu means those who are engaged fully, fully in the Kṛṣṇa's devotional service. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Ananya-bhāk, without any deviation. Those who are engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu. It is not simply by changing dress. Sādhu means sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇām. Sādhu means honest, sadācārī, good character. But the ultimate aim(?) is, as Kṛṣṇa recommends, that api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya..., not that one has to adopt all these sadācāra. That is secondary. But if one is staunchly devoted to Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu. Not exactly that he has to observe all the rules and regulations because by practice... Just like these European and American students, sometimes they cannot adopt to the principles of sadācāra, as it is recommended. But that doesn't matter. Because they have devoted, they have sacrificed their life for Kṛṣṇa, they are sādhu. One has to (indistinct). They should be given the respect of a sādhu because they have no other business than Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended from Kṛṣṇa.

*So this Kṛṣṇa conscious society is the society of sādhus. Saṅgena sādhu*-bhaktānām, sādhu-bhaktānām īśvarārādhanena, and side by side there should be arcana, Deity worship, īśvarārādhanena, the rules and regulation, how to worship. So one has to accept the spiritual master, try to satisfy him, giving everything to the spiritual master, and in the association of sādhu and bhakta and īśvarārādhanena. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is comprising all these items. Therefore, it is bona fide, authorized. Thank you very much. [break]

Devotee (1): ...Kṛṣṇa knows everything we're thinking and He knows exactly when each of us will give up the material body, does that mean that everything is predestined?



Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa knows everything in the past and everything in the future, so can we say it is predestined?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, so long within these material laws, it is predestined, but according to karma. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. You are doing work, you are acting, and that is being supervised by the superior authorities. And you get a type of body that this living entity has worked in this way, he should get this type of body. Therefore, it is predestined. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. That is being automatically done because a materialistic person is associating with different types of the modes of material nature. So he is forming a certain type of body, sattvic, rajasic, tamasic. Therefore, it is predestined. But karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54], those who are engaged in devotional service, they are not under karma. Their destiny is being prepared by Kṛṣṇa. Even though they are supposed to be doing ordinary work, but because he has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, his destiny is being manufactured by Kṛṣṇa Himself, not by this material nature. He is not under these material laws. Therefore, he is called mukta, liberated.



māṁ ca yo vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Anyone who is engaged fully, cent per cent, unalloyed devotional service, he is already Brahman. He is not under the material conditions. Sa guṇān samatītyaitan, these guṇas, the sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo guṇa, he has already surpassed, he has already transcended. Sa guṇān samatītyaitan, he is already on the platform of Brahman. Brahma-bhuyāya kalpate. Kalpate, this word is used. Although you find that he is working within this material world, but actually he has become already Brahman. Brahma-bhuyāya kalpate. So any pure devotee, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], without any desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa, simply one who has dedicated his life for Kṛṣṇa, he is already on the Brahman stage. So he is not under this destiny-making material world. The destiny*-making effect is in the material world everywhere working, so you are (indistinct) your head.



Devotee (2): Suppose Kṛṣṇa knows in so many millions of births I'll have made a...



Prabhupāda: Not suppose Kṛṣṇa knows.



Devotee (2): He knows.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (2): But then the individual, he cannot by his efforts or something...



Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa point is that you... Your point is Kṛṣṇa knows your destiny, is that (indistinct)?



Devotee (2): That's correct.



*Prabhupāda: But He can change your destiny. That is Kṛṣṇa's power. Nobody can change, but He can change. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Suppose your life is full of sin, sinful actions. So your destiny is already there. But Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall give you protection." So He can change what you (indistinct). You haven't got to undergo the result of your destiny. Brahma-saṁhitā also says, karmāṇi nirdahati ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. Bhakti-bhājām, those who are engaged in devotion, they are karmāṇi nirdahati. (end)





670315SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.29-31

-

San Francisco, March 15, 1967,

(incomplete lecture)



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)



*tatropāya*-sahasrāṇām

ayaṁ bhagavatoditaḥ

yad īśvare bhagavati

yathā yair añjasā ratiḥ

[SB 7.7.29]



*So in last day meeting we have discussed that we have to crush the seed of this material existence. Bīja-nirharaṇaṁ yogaḥ. Bīja. So long the seed is there, we may practice something for spiritual realization, meditation, or the gymnastic yoga*-or there are so many other things-but the seed is there. We may be forgetful of our existence, nirvāṇa, void, or hallucination. But because the bīja, the seed, is there, as soon as the effect of such imperfect method is finished, again you come to that Again. This is the bīja. The same example, just like weeds in the field. They appeared completely dried up. There is no more. But as soon as there are drops of rain, oh, again it becomes green. Because the seed is there. So if you want to wipe out the seed of this material existence, then Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that tatropāya-sahasrāṇām. There are maybe..., there may be many hundreds and thousands of process for wipe out, not wipe out, just to bring you to some transcendental position, forgetfulness of your material existence. There may be. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says that sahasrāṇām ayaṁ bhagavatoditaḥ. The method of Kṛṣṇa consciousness described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, yad īśvare bhagavati yathā yair añjasā ratiḥ, this can give you the wiping-out method. If you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the seed of material existence will be completely stopped. Because there will be no... It is very practical.



*What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? We are described several times that ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. (feedback) (aside:) Why this sound? Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. You have to serve Kṛṣṇa favorably. That's all. And, in another passage we find Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that this, I mean to say, our senses, at the present moment, they are engaged in material activities. So you have to change the rubber stamp simply. You have to act. Not that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be a dull stone. No. The activity will be there. Therefore sometimes we are misunderstood that "What sort of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there? They are also eating. They are also typewriting. They are also going to office. They are also working. And everything is there. They are looking after printing press. And so many things, everything. What is this Kṛṣṇa?" Because it is simply being done on account of Kṛṣṇa. The consciousness is the same. Your consciousness, my consciousness is the same. If you apply to certain objective, that is called "that-consciousness." Similarly, if you apply your consciousness simply for Kṛṣṇa, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], just favorably, you, I mean..., engage your senses for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa advises in the Bhagavad-gītā, yudhyasva mām anusmara: [Bg. 8.7] "You fight. At the same time, think of Me." That is the prescription. So Arjuna, he was a fighter. In the beginning, he was a fighter. At the end he remained a fighter. He did not change his position. After hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he did not change his position*-he was a fighter, and he become a mendicant, or he become a swami. No. He did not become a swami. He remained as fighter, but the account was changed. Rubber stamp was changed. That's all. He was considering fighting from his own standard point of view. He was thinking, "Oh, how can I fight with my grandfather? How can I fight with my teacher? How can I..." So he was thinking on his personal account. But when Kṛṣṇa informed him, instructed him, Bhagavad-gītā, that "Your business is to fight for Me," and he changed his decision. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have to change your position only. That's all. This is Bhāgavatam. This is, if you practice acting only for Kṛṣṇa, then that seed of your material existence will be wiped out completely. So that is bīja-nirharaṇam, wiping out the seed altogether.

guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā

*sarva*-labdhārpaṇena ca

*saṅgena sādhu*-bhaktānām

īśvarārādhanena ca



*Now he's describing what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to practice it. The practice is, the first thing is, Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends guru-śuśrūṣayā. Guru-śuśrūṣayā. Guru-śuśrū... means that you have to first of all select a spiritual master. Without a teacher, without guidance, nobody can make any process. Even if you have passed M.A., and if you want to put some theses and if you want to get yourself doctorate degree, then it is the system that the theses should be guided by three expert Ph.D.'s. This is the system. So similarly, if you want to be purely Kṛṣṇa conscious person, then you must select a person who can give you instruction, who can guide you in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Bhagavad*-gītā also teaches us the same thing: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. If you want to understand that transcendental science, then you have to understand from an expert, upadekṣyanti tad jñānam. The expert who is in, expert in that knowledge, he will instruct you, upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. One who has actually realized, he will teach you. Therefore you have to go to such a person. And in the Kathopanisad, Vedas, it is also stated, the same thing: tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you want to learn that science, the transcendental science, then you have to approach a bona fide spiritual master. Who is bona fide spiritual master? That is also mentioned. Samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. That spiritual master, there are two signs. What is that? Śrotriyam. Śrotriyam means he's coming in disciplic succession by hearing process. This is very important. One has to hear from the superior, not to manufacture. One must hear. Because the subject matter is transcendental, beyond our senses. Simply the same example: if you want to know something about India, and because I have come from India, you can ask me, "What is the Indian condition?" I can present perfectly. But you cannot imagine. Or you have to read some books of India.



*So this is the process of knowledge. So in the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is stated, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. That paramparā, by disciplic succession. So guru means śrotriyam, who has heard nicely, perfectly from his spiritual master. And his spiritual master must have heard from his spiritual master. In this way, you go on, ultimately, Kṛṣṇa becomes the spiritual master. Just like Kṛṣṇa instructed Arjuna. And if you follow the principles of Arjuna, as he heard, as he understood, then you also hear from Kṛṣṇa. What did he do, Kṛṣṇa, uh, Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gītā? He said, "O my dear Kṛṣṇa," naṣṭo mohaḥ, "my illusion is over," tvat-prasādāt, "by Your kindness." That means, "You have so kindly instructed me. Now my illusion is over." Then what you are going to do? Your illusion is over? Ah, kariṣye tad vacanam: "Oh, I shall act as You are advising me." That means, "I shall fight. I shall fight." So evaṁ param... If Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa in this way That is a fact. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now, if you follow the principle or the footprints of Arjuna, that Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā in this way Now, if you follow the principles of Arjuna, then you understand Bhagavad-gītā. It is not very difficult. That is stated, how, what, what Arjuna understood. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Tenth Chapter: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. He accepted that "You are Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nobody knows about Your personality." These things are described there.

*So you haven't got to labor very hard. If you simply follow mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], if you follow the footprints of great personalities like Arjuna, like Nārada, like Brahmā, like Śaṅkarācārya, like Rāmānujācārya, oh, they are there. Their precepts and their injunction is there. But you have to select a person, a bona fide spiritual master. You have to see that whether he's actually in that disciplic succession. And how you can test it? You'll test it that a bona fide spiritual master will instruct you the same thing as Kṛṣṇa instructed. How it is that? That Kṛṣṇa said that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all engagements and you just surrender unto Me," the spiritual master will say the same thing, that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." He'll not say, "Not to Kṛṣṇa, but to something else, nonsense." He's not a spiritual master. Just try to understand. This is paramparā system. There will be no difference between the instruction of Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. The same thing. Kṛṣṇa said that "You surrender unto Me," and the spiritual master will say, "You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." Not that "Not to Kṛṣṇa, but to me." Just... This is the point. Therefore a bona fide spiritual master means there is no difference of instruction from the original instructor and down to this point. He's bona fide spiritual master. So therefore you have to select. If you actually want to make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you have to select. It requires some labor, or it requires some intelligence. That's all. It is not very difficult. There are, there are still in this world direct disciplic succession. But you have got..., you must have got some intelligence. Then you can understand.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tatra, uh, guru-śuśrūṣayā. So you have to begin your spiritual, your Kṛṣṇa consciousness by accepting a bona fide spiritual master in the disciplic succession. And your first business will be guru-śuśrūṣā. Ṣuśrūṣā means to please the Supreme, this is spiritual master, by service, sevayā. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. If you want to learn that transcendental science, then you have to adopt three processes in the beginning. You have to select one, a bona fide spiritual master. Then you have to surrender. The same surrender process. You have to select such a spiritual master that you can surrender there. If you think, "Oh, this, this swamijī or the spiritual master is less intelligent than me or less educated than me or less in so many ways," then you cannot select a spiritual master. You have to select another person where you will find that "Here is a mind, here is man where I can surrender. Yes, he is greater than me in so many respects. Therefore I can surrender." This is called praṇipāt. So selection of spiritual master means first of all you must agree that "Here is a personality where I can bow down my head, yes." Everyone is proud. Why shall he bow down before a person unless he understands that "Here is a personality who is greater than me"? So this is the first condition, praṇipāt. Praṇipāt means prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāt. You have to become blank slate: "Now, sir, whatever I have learned, oh, I forget. It is now blank slate. Now you write whatever you like." This is the first condition. Praṇipātena, and sevayā. Sevayā means service. So because the service is wanting, so one has to serve the spiritual master. It is indicated that even if you are the greatest personality, you have to approach and serve the spiritual master just like ordinary menial servant. Menial servant. If the spiritual master says, "My dear boy, you just cleanse my shoes," or any, I mean to say, abominable, oh, he'll be ready. This is called sevayā. And praṇipātena, sevayā. Praṇipātena..., paripraśnena and sevayā. Paripraśna means when you cannot understand, you must place, "Sir, I cannot understand this portion." This is the process.

*So this is called śuśrūṣayā. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā. And with devotion, with love and faith, not officially, "Because I have kept a pet spiritual master, so officially I have to..." No. With faith and devotion. And sarva*-labdhārpaṇena ca. The brahmacārī system means he should live with the spiritual master and collect fund. Of course, in India still, the system is there that in the four kinds of social orders, the brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa... There are four divisions in the social order. First the righteous, pious students-students with purified life and a spiritual education. That is called brahmacārī. Then gṛhastha, family life, living with wife and children. Then vānaprastha, retired life. Then sannyāsa, renounced life. So these gṛhasthas are meant for maintaining three other āśramas. A gṛhastha, a householder, because he's given the license for sense enjoyment, therefore he has to compensate his sensual gratification by giving charities to other three āśramas. Brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So the system is any brahmacārī or any sannyāsī goes to a householder, "Mother, give me some alms. I am brahmacārī," (s)he will at once give. At once give. So this is the system.

*So... So brahmacārī, brahmacārī's business is that he will collect, he'll earn everything, but it is for his spiritual master. Everything given. "Sir, I have given you." He doesn't possess anything. This is brahmacārī. Even there is injunction that even if the spiritual master forgets to call the brahmacārī-"My dear boy, come and take prasādam,"*-oḥ, he'll not touch by his own accord. Because Guru Mahārāja has forgotten to call him, oh, he'll fast on that day. There are so many restrictions. Of course, in the Vedic scripture... So brahmacārī means that he has no personal profit. And do you mean to say that the spiritual master will take from the brahmacārī everything and he'll, I mean to say, grab the whole thing for his personal sense enjoyment? No. He, whatever he receives, he offers to Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa. So therefore Kṛṣṇa, offering is to Kṛṣṇa through the transparent via media of spiritual master. Because directly I do not know Kṛṣṇa. Directly I do not know how to offer Kṛṣṇa. Therefore my business is to offer it through the agent. Just like if you want to pay something to the government, you have to pay to the treasury, not directly to president. You have to pay through the treasury. Similarly, this is the process of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā sarva*-labdhārpaṇena ca, saṅgena sādhu-bhaktānām. And you have to live with society who are trying to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sādhu-saṅgena. Simply official offering will not help you. You have to contact. Therefore this association required. This Society is necessary to give chance to the people that they may come and live in the Society and they reform their character, their habits. So that is required. These are all recommended: saṅgena sādhu-bhaktānām. Sādhu-bhaktānām. Sādhu and bhakta. Not the karmīs. There are different classes of men. Some of them are called karmīs, some of them are called jñānīs, some of them are called yogis, and some of them are called bhaktas, or devotees. So here Prahlāda Mahārāja does not recommend that you have to make your association with karmīs or you have to make your association with jñānīs or you have to make your association with the yogis. But here it is clearly stated, saṅgena sādhu-bhaktānām. Sādhu means a devotee, and bhakta means who is actually engaged in devotional service. With their association you have to develop, not with the karmīs. Who are karmīs? Karmīs means those who are after sense gratification. They will work hard day and night like any animal and, when they get some result, they engage all the profits in sense gratification. That is called karmī. And jñānī means those who are still not in actual Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but they are trying to understand that this life is not good. This hard life, this working day and night simply for sense gratification, oh, it is not good. They are trying something else. So generally they come to enjoy mental speculation. Just like the karmīs, they are trying to satisfy their senses, similarly, the jñānīs, they want to satisfy their mind. Their mind It is a little more elevated. But still, they are on the material platform because these senses and mind and intelligence, up to intelligence, that is all matter. There is no question of spiritual understanding. Mental speculation, speculators, they are not on the spiritual platform. They are on the material platform. So here And the yogis. Yogis, still more further advanced from jñāna, from the mental speculative platform, when one comes to the platform of finding out the soul within by meditation, they are still elevated. So But the bhaktas, they are already engaged. They have not only found out the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but they are actually engaged in His service. They are called bhaktas, devotees.

*So here Prahlāda Mahārāja, he recommends that first of all you have to engage yourself under the guidance, under the service of a bona fide spiritual master, and then you have to keep yourself in association of the devotees*-not with the yogis, not with the jñānīs, not with the karmīs. He specifically mentions. And sādhūnām īśvara-ārādhanena ca. And you, in their association, you have to worship the Supreme Lord, worship. So this, in this age the worship of Supreme Lord is very simple. The worship of Supreme Lord is very simple. That is mentioned in the Bhāgavata, that,

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*In this age, in this age, Kali*-yuga, there is incarnation of God. What is that, incarnation of God? Now He's tviṣa-akṛṣṇam, His bodily complexion is not black. Kṛṣṇa is blackish, but He is Kṛṣṇa, that Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa. And what is His business? Now, kṛṣṇa-varṇam. He's always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma..., varṇayati. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam and saṅgopaṅgāstra-pārṣadam [SB 11.5.32]. He's associated... You see the picture. He's associated with four others. And in this picture also you see, associated. So you put this picture or form before you and just go on chanting and dancing. This is worship. Just go on chanting and dancing. This is worship. That we are doing every day. No more, no more going to anywhere. You just keep Lord Caitanya before you and go on chanting and dancing. Your all worship finished. It is very simple. Very simple. We are simply just demonstrating everything. You can do it. You can have a picture like this and you can chant with the tune. If you like, you can play the record and chant. That is very nice. So all worship is concentrated there. Here it is said that sādhu-bhaktānām saṅgena and īśvarārādhanena ca, and you have to worship. So if you make this process, then you become fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness wherever you live and whatever you are, and your life is perfect. And there is nothing objectionable. This picture, anyone can have. This picture or small picture, whatever you can. Like this way, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's picture, and offer Him little fruits and little flower and little incense, and chant and dance. Never mind what you are, what is your condition. Everything will come later on. Yena tena prakareṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet. Somehow or other you engage your mind in this process. Then everything will come automatically. You'll know. You'll know what to do. And there is spiritual master guidance. This is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Śraddhayā tat*-kathāyāṁ ca. He is further explaining. Śraddhayā, with faith and devotion, śraddhā. Śraddha means faith and devotion. So this faith and devotion is the beginning, is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Adau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga tato bhajana-kriyā anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. This is the process. So here it is also said, śraddhayā tat-kathāyāṁ ca. When there is a speech about Kṛṣṇa, or about Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So śraddhayā tat-kathā... (end)



670317SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.32-35

-

San Francisco, March 17, 1967,

(incomplete lecture)



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So we have been discussing instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja, a five*-years-old boy, instructing his class fellows. So self-analysis. And he says, "When self-analysis is complete, then the result will be that the person who is in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness after studying self-analysis, his vision will be universal." That is the stage of universal understanding.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā you have read that a learned person, who is actually learned, he sees everyone on the equal level, sama-darśinaḥ. How? Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne. A person who is very highly learned, very gentle, civilized, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe, and a brāhmaṇa, still higher, intellectual personality, gavi, a cow, hasti, means an elephant, śuni, the dog, śva-pāke ca, and the dog-eaters, śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama, all these-there are different varieties of living condition-but still, one who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he sees everyone on the same level. How it is, that? Has he become a madman, that a highly intellectual person and the dog, he sees on the equal level? Yes. Because he is not seeing on the material platform; he is seeing on the spiritual platform. In the spiritual platform, there is no distinction. The all distinction is due to our material conception of life. Varieties, the bodies, there are 8,400,000 varieties of bodies, and because we are under the concept of this bodily, I mean to say, identification, therefore we see so many varieties.



So a person who is actually in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that if he prosecutes the devotional service under the guidance of bona fide spiritual master... That is the beginning of this verse: guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā, beginning with serving the bona fide spiritual master.

hariḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

bhagavān asta īśvaraḥ

iti bhūtāni manasā

kāmais taiḥ sādhu mānayet

[SB 7.7.32]



So as soon as one is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not see anyone bad. Everyone he sees, he is sādhu. Sādhu means saintly. So that, his vision, completely changes. He does not see any enemy. There are three stages of development in spiritual life, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The first stage is when he's under the training. That is called neophyte stage. That, in that stage, he offers his respect to the Deity.



arcāyāṁ eva haraye

śraddhayā yaḥ iṣṭān pūjān

*kriyate na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ

[SB 11.2.47]



In the beginning stage, he offers respect to the Deity in the church or in the temple or in the mosque, according to different religious conceptions, but he has no idea who is actually devotee, and what is his duty towards others. He does not know. This is the first stage. But he has got good faith in religion and in God. That is the beginning.



The second stage is that,

*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā

yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ

[SB 11.2.46]



*The intermediate stage is that he sees four things: īśvara, the Lord, the Supreme Lord, and then His devotee, tad*-adhīne. Tad-adhīna means one who has accepted subordination of the Supreme Lord. He is called devotee, or one who has surrendered. So he sees God, God's devotee, and bāliśa. Bāliśa means innocent person, one who has no sense what is God, neither he's against God, he's called bāliśa. And dviṣatsu. And there are atheists. Atheist class, they will, as soon as they hear of God, oh, they become fire. So dviṣatsu, they are envious of the Lord. So these four classes are visioned in the second stage. And he deals with four classes differently: he loves God, he makes friendship with devotee of God, and he instructs sincerely, just like Cai..., Prahlāda Mahārāja is instructing to his friends because they are innocent. They are neither against nor for. So he is instructing them. But those who are dviṣat... His father..., he was not instructing his father because he knew that his father was atheist number one. So he was avoiding. So this is the second stage.



And the third stage, or the highest stage, he does not see any distinction that who is atheist or who is friendly or who is innocent. He sees that "Everyone is the servant of God, everyone. Therefore he's good." He does not make... That is very higher position. We should not imitate. We must begin from the beginner stage, then second stage. Generally, the devotees are on the second stage. The highest stage is very rare to be seen. So,

hariḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

bhagavān āsta īśvaraḥ

iti bhūtāni manasā

kāmais taiḥ sādhu mānayet

[SB 7.7.32]



*So when one reaches the highest stage of perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has no more any distinction, and he thinks everyone as sādhu, as devotee. He thinks himself that "I am the worst." He thinks anyone, "Oh, everyone is serving the Supreme Lord. They are engaged in the service of the Lord. Simply I am so fool that I cannot engage myself." He simply laments himself. That is the highest stage. He sees, "Everyone is engaged in the loving service of God, but simply I am unable to serve God. So kindly...," he prays to God, "my dear Lord, please give me strength so that I can serve." This is the first*-quality stage. Evaṁ nirjita-ṣaḍ-vargaiḥ kriyate bhaktir īśvare. These are the process of devotional service when the senses are completely under control. This highest stage means, even in the first stage, second stage, the senses are controlled.



*evaṁ nirjita-ṣaḍ*-vargaiḥ

kriyate bhaktir īśvare

vāsudeve bhagavati

yayā saṁlabhyate ratiḥ

[SB 7.7.33]



"If anyone prosecutes his devotional service in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, under the guidance of the bona fide spiritual master, then gradually he develops ratiḥ." Ratiḥ means affection, affinity, attachment for the Lord. Now we have got attachment for the matter. So as we make progress, we gradually become freed from material attachment and come to the platform, complete attachment for God. So attachment, that is my natural instinct. I cannot be free from attachment. I shall be either attached to this matter or I shall be attached to spirit. If I am not attached to spirit, then I must be attached to matter. And if I am attached to spirit, then my material attachment is gone. This is the process. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "In this process, if a person advances in his spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then vāsudeve bhagavati..." The Vāsudeva means Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeve bhagavati: the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Yayā saṁlabhyate ratiḥ: "He becomes automatically attached." And so long we are not attached to Vāsudeva, then our attachment for this matter will oblige me to transfer or transmigrate from one body to another, and I'll have to circumambulate in the 8,400,000 species of life, lower grade, higher grade. That will continue. Therefore this is the opportunity, this human life, to become a devotee of Vāsudeva or to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Now, when one becomes fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or a devotee of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, his characters are described:

niśamya karmāṇi guṇān atulyān

*vīryāṇi līlā*-tanubhiḥ kṛtāni

*yadātiharṣotpulakāśru*-gadgadaṁ

protkaṇṭha udgāyati rauti nṛtyati

[SB 7.7.34]



*Bhagavat, bhagavad-rati liṅgāny āhuḥ. Now, a person, how he is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his symptoms are now being described. Bhagavad-rati-liṅgāni āhur niśamyeti guṇāni bhakta-vatsalādi. Now, he says, niśamya karmāṇi guṇān atulyān vīryāṇi līlā-tanubhiḥ kṛtāni. This incarnation of... In the Bhagavad-gītā, you have learned that the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa says that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. Whenever there is discrepancy in the discharge of religious principles, then there is incarnation of God. Whenever there is... Because this is... Everything, God is the supreme proprietor. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Now, the kingdom of God is everywhere, but this material world is also kingdom of God, but here the people are 99.9 %, they are forgetful. They have forgotten God. Therefore in this material world, there are religious principles. In every civilized society, there is some form of religion, without any exception. Either you be Christian or be Muhammadan or Buddhist or Hindu, that doesn't matter, because the whole idea is this is the process. Human civilization, to make progress means self-realization. So as soon as there is discrepancy in the matter of self-realization*-they become too much materialistic-then the incarnation of Godhead comes and He instructs. Just like Lord Kṛṣṇa came in five thousand years before, and He has left His instruction. So why? Because we shall get the opportunity of hearing His activities. By hearing His activities means we shall be associating Him because His activities, because He is Absolute, there is no difference between He and His activities. There is no difference.



*So here, niśamya karmāṇi guṇān atulyāni. So just like you are kindly hearing the description given by Prahlāda Mahārāja. So this is the process. So when one becomes highly elevated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so as soon as he hears Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavata or Bible, anything description of Kṛṣṇa, or God, then atiharṣotpula kāśru-gadgadaṁ protkaṇṭha udgāyati rauti nṛtyati, as soon as he hears, he becomes so much ecstatic that immediately he begins to dance and sing and becomes very happy. As soon as he hears. Just like somebody hears that in some business he has earned ten millions of dollars. He becomes so much, I mean to say, enthusiastic, "Oh, I have got this," and dances and like that. This is, of course, material conception. Similarly when one has actually in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in developed position, his symptom will be that as soon as he hears of Kṛṣṇa, or God, he becomes immediately ecstatic and begins to dance and cry and sing just like a madman. So this stage... We have several times cited the example, that reading of Bhagavad-gītā... When Lord Caitanya was traveling in South India, He saw one brāhmaṇa, he was reading Bhagavad-gītā, but he was illiterate. But he was crying. So on inquiry from Caitanya Mahāprabhu what he is reading, he frankly admitted that "I am illiterate. I do not know even the letters. But my Guru Mahārāja asked me to read Bhagavad-gītā daily, so I am trying to read it. But I cannot read it." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired, "Then why you are crying?" He replied, "Yes, I get an ecstatic sentiment. As soon as I touch this book, I see the picture, that Kṛṣṇa is driving the chariot, and Arjuna is sitting, and He is instructing. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind, Kṛṣṇa is so faithful to His devotee, that He has taken the menial execution of service to His devotee. These feelings, whenever I feel, I am crying." This is the stage. This is the stage, when one becomes too much, I mean to say, glorifying about the wonderful acts. This is very wonderful act. The Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the greatest, God is great, but He has taken the service of a devotee as a menial driver. So this feeling gave him in ecstasy. This is a sign. It is not artificial. Tad guṇa-sūnavan, er, śruti-mātreṇa.

*Just like if you place, if you pour some water on the ground, you will see where there is down level, it will at once go to that side. Without any arrangement, you simply pour the water, and it will go down where the level is down, just like the rivers are flowing to the sea level. Similarly, a highly developed Kṛṣṇa conscious person, at once he will hear about something of Kṛṣṇa, he will be in ecstasy. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There was a devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. His name was Murāri Gupta. He was physician to the then Nawab, Muslim Nawab. Now, they were sitting. The Nawab was going some hunting excursion or something like that, but he was Nawab's physician. He was to accompany him. So they were sitting on the back of the elephant. In the meantime that Murāri Gupta saw one peacock, and as soon as he saw the peacock, the feather, he at once remembered Kṛṣṇa and at once fainted and fall down. This is called ālambana. This is called ālambana. Ālambana means anything to the context, immediately he remembers his Lord and becomes ecstatic. This is the first*-class stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So there are many instances. Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed this manifestation in His life. We shall discuss. We are discussing now in the morning class.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, yadā atiharṣotpulakāśru*-gadgadam. He became so glad that he is faltering in speaking. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was dancing in Jagannātha Purī during car festival and was singing, He could not utter "Jagannātha." He was uttering, "Jaga-aga-aaa-aaa..." Like that. He was faltering, faltering. These signs are that. They become at once transferred to the spiritual atmosphere and platform. These are very higher stage. Yadā graha-grasta iva kvacid dhasaty ākrandate dhyāyati vandate janam. Just like one man is haunted by ghost. He shows different caricatures. Sometimes he laughs; sometimes he cries; sometimes he is falldown; sometimes he touches your feet. These are the symptoms.

*yadā graha*-grasta iva kvacid dhasaty

ākrandate dhyāyati vandate janam

*muhuḥ śvasan vakti hare jagat*-pate

*nārāyaṇety ātma*-matir gata-trapaḥ

[SB 7.7.35]



He forgets. Just like a madman forgets that "I am in office" or "I am in the society, in my friends' circle. If I show this caricature, they will..." (end)





670320SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.40-44

-

San Francisco, March 20, 1967



(incomplete lecture)

*Prabhupāda: So Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending that either material prosperity within this planet or in other planet, they are all destructible. They're not permanent. Therefore nirmala, not free from the contamination of material nature. That is also recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16], that even if you go to the highest planet, that is also perishable. So we are not interested in perishable things. Unfortunately, people have no knowledge that what is that unperishable. They are accustomed in the association of perishable things for many, many lives. (aside:) Is not working? Yes. Therefore they have no information what is the... If we say that "You work for nonperishable thing," he'll be astonished because he has no idea that there can be anything which is not perishable. So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that "Don't try for nonperishable things...," "Don't try for perishable things. Try for nonperishable things." And that is bhaktyā uktayeṣaṁ bhajatātma-labdhaye. As the devotees recommend to worship the Supreme Lord, and the Supreme Lord also confirms it: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6], that supreme abode, where going, nobody returns... Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that "My dear friends, you just worship that Supreme Personality of Godhead, where going, nobody comes back."



*yad*-artha iha karmāṇi

*vidvan*-māny asakṛn naraḥ

karoty ato viparyāsam

amoghaṁ vindate phalaṁ

[SB 7.7.41]



*In this material world we are making so many plans for permanent settlement, but unfortunately, we are meeting with just the opposite result. That is in our experience. There is very nice song sung by a Vaiṣṇava poet. He says, sukhere lagiya e baro bhaginu anale puria ghare (?). "I constructed this house for living happily. Unfortunately, it was set in fire, so everything is finished." That is going on. In the material world we are making so many plans for living very comfortably, peacefully, eternally. But that is not possible. People do not understand it. They are seeing, experiencing from śāstra, from scripture we are getting instruction, that nothing is imperishable. Everything is perishable in the material world, and we are actually seeing also that perishable agents are always ready. Just like the fire. In New York City, at least, within twenty*-four hours, there are at least ten or fifteen places where fire is going on. And your fire brigade is running on just trying to protect you from fire. The house regulation is all for fire, "How we are protected from fire." Then it will be allowed, certificate of occupation, "You can live." In other words, that fire is always ready to vanish everything, but artificially, somehow or other, we are trying to protect ourself from fire. But we do not take it for granted that this material nature is so made that it will set in fire everything, however we may be strong in protecting ourself. That is the nature. So however we may make plans to live very happily, the nature's law is that it will destroy.



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*So this material nature is very powerful. You cannot protect from the onslaught of material nature. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advising us that you try to achieve the permanent. The permanent is the soul. God is permanent. And there is a world, a sky, which is also permanent. So why not transfer yourself to that permanent sky, permanent association, permanent life, permanent supreme knowledge? What we are seeking here in imperfectness? But people have no information. Some of them, they do not believe in it. Some of them are callous. This is our unfortunate condition. But it is neither false nor it is fiction. It is actual fact, truth, real truth, Absolute Truth. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata presents the objective as the Supreme Truth, paraṁ satyam. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi: "I offer my obeisances to the Absolute Truth, paraṁ satyam." And what is that paraṁ satyam? Nirasta-kuhakam. Nirasta-kuhakam means "which is devoid of all illusion." Here everything is full of illusion. I am thinking, planning something, and at any moment, oh, it is all vanished, all finished.



So we do not understand that this is illusion, and there is a permanent life. So,

*sukhāya duḥkha*-mokṣāya

saṅkalpa iha karmiṇaḥ

sadāpnotīhayā duḥkham

anīhāyāḥ sukhāvṛtaḥ

[SB 7.7.42]



*Now everything we are planning, sukhāya, for matter of happiness, and duḥkha*-mokṣāya, and to get rid of all miseries. This is our plan. Sukhāya duḥkha-mokṣāya saṅkalpaḥ, our determination; iha, in this world; *karmiṇaḥ, those who are working. That determination is to make life happy and avoid distress. That is the plan. Sadāpnotīhayā. But that is simply plan*-making within our mind. Actually, it is never achieved. It is never achieved.



kāmān kāmayate kāmyair

*yad*-artham iha puruṣaḥ

sa vai dehas tu pārakyo

bhaṅguro yāty upaiti ca

[SB 7.7.43]



*Now we are desiring so many things, kāmān kāmyair kāmayate. Kāmān means desirable, and kāmayate, we hanker after such desirables, kāmyaiḥ, being too much eager, greedy, for fulfilling those objects. Yad*-artham iha puruṣaḥ sa vai dehas tu. And what is that kāma? What are those desirables? The desirables are simply for making this body perfect. Not perfect-comfortable. Perfect it cannot be, but as far as possible... We are manufacturing nice cushions for sitting comfortably, nice bedroom, buy nice motorcars, and... Everything for this body. The ultimate aim is to make this body comfortable. That's all. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says that the body itself, dehaḥ, sa vai dehas tu pārakyo bhaṅguro. Either you make your position secure and comfortable in this life or next life... Next life means there are many religious rituals which assures in your next life very comfortable life, very, I mean to say, long duration of life in other planets. So either you make arrangement in this life or in the next life, in the material world, if you make your next life in the spiritual world, then that is a different question. But so far we are materially concerned, either we make comfortable life in this life or in the next. But the body itself is kṣaṇa-bhaṅguraḥ, it is perishable. It is perishable. Sa vai dehas tu pārakyo bhaṅguro yāty upaiti.



kim u vyavahitāpatya-

*dārāgāra*-dhanādayaḥ

*rājya*-kośa-gajāmātya-

bhṛtyāptā mamatāspadāḥ

[SB 7.7.44]



*They were all sons of big chieftains and ministers, and he was himself the son of the king, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Therefore he was speaking from his own standard. He says that kim u vyavahitāpatya*-dārāgāra-dhanādayaḥ. Apatya means we are expanding. We are single. Now we are expanding by our children, apatya. And dāra means wife. The Sanskrit word strī... Strī means woman, and the root meaning of strī means "which expands." As soon as you have got wife, you expand yourself. You are one, and as soon as you get your wife, you become three, four, five. So strī means that helps me expanding. That is the root meaning. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that what is the use by expanding your attachment to this material world by children? Apatya-dāra. Dārāgāra. Dāra means wife, and āgāra means house. Dārāgāra-dhanadayaḥ. Dhanādayaḥ means riches. These are our expanding processes. And rājya, kingdom. Rājya. Kośa. Kośa means treasury. These are concerned with government. Government wants to expand. Rājya, kośa, and gaja. Gaja means elephant. The royal orders, they keep elephants. Especially in India, those who are princely order, they must keep at least dozens of elephants, and many thousands of horses. That is royal opulence. So rājya-kośa-gajāmātya. Amātya means minister, and bhṛtya, bhṛtya means servants, and āptā mean friends. That means, in other words, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that there is no necessity of expanding these material opulences. (end)





670322SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.7.46

-

San Francisco, March 22, 1967,

(incomplete lecture)



Prabhupāda:



nirūpyatām iha svārthaḥ

*kiyān deha*-bhṛto 'surāḥ

niṣekādiṣv avasthāsu

kliśyamānasya karmabhiḥ

[SB 7.7.46]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja is instructing his friends, all small children, about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is instructing so many things. We have been discussing this subject matter for the last few days. Now he's placing before them for submitting, for consideration. "My dear friends," deha*-bhṛtām, those who have accepted this material body, asura... Asura means demons. He also belonged to the family, atheistic family. His father was great atheist, and all his friends... Because his father was king, so all his friends happened to be the citizens of that atheistic kingdom. So all of them are being addressed as asura. Asura means demons, godless. There are two kinds of people, asura and sura, or deva and asura. So who are asuras and who are devas? Devas means godly, and asura means nongodly, or atheistic. In the Vedic literature you'll find there are definition that there are two kinds of people. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva āsura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. There are two kinds of people in this world: viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daiva. And who are... Daiva means godly. Who are godly? Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ, those who are devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are called godly. And āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Tad-viparyayaḥ means just the opposite number. What is the opposite number? The atheists. At once they hear something of God, oh, they become fire: "What is this God? I am God." So he is asura.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is asking the asuras, his friends, "My dear..." Friends are sometimes addressed in strong languages. That does not affect friends, in friendly terms. So Prahlāda Mahārāja directly asserting that "You are all atheists." But he was speaking among friends. There was no questions of offending. And actually they were sons of all atheists. So he is submitting, "My dear friends," that nirūpyatām iha svārthaḥ, "you just try to find out what is your interest. You do not know your interest." Everyone is called selfish: "I am self*-interested." Yes. You should be self-interested. Everyone should be self... And that is the nature. I am thinking for my self-interest; *you are thinking for your self*-interest. When we become philanthropist, there is also self-interest. "I want to become a very welfare worker in the society because there is my self-interest that you will elect me as president or some big officer." Oh. So self-interest is natural. That is not abominable. If you become self-interested, that is not abominable. That is nice. But you do not know what is your self-interest. Prahlāda Mahārāja submits that nirūpyatām: "Just try to analyze what is your self-interest."

nirūpyatām iha svārthaḥ

*kiyān deha*-bhṛto 'surāḥ

karmāṇy ārabhate dehī... niṣekādiṣv avasthāsu

kliśyamānasya karmabhiḥ



*Now you are trying to be happy by your work. Everyone is trying to be happy by his work. A man, ordinary worker, he is also trying to be happy by working, and a great capitalist, he is also trying to be happy by work. But Bhagavad*-gītā says that they are trying to be happy in what sense? They're trying to be happy with the body for sense gratification. But how long you shall be able to satisfy your senses? Your interest is different: not sense gratification. Your interest is that you have to find out what you are. So that is described in Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, that you are this consciousness. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That you are, that permanent, the consciousness. And what is that consciousness? That consciousness is, pure form, is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "I am servant of God." This is pure consciousness. So long my consciousness is designated, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Chinese," "I am Russian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian..." These are all designations due to this body. But actually I am neither American, neither Indian, nor Christian, nor Hindu, nor Muslim, but I am eternally the servant of God. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is submitting that "If you are servant of God, eternally, then you find out your engagement, eternal engagement. That is the duty of your human form of life. Don't be misled by designation." Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become free from all designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. You have to become free from all designations. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. And in connection with the Supreme Lord you have to become nirmalam. Nirmalam means without any contamination.



*Last night in the television, one boy was asking me, "Swamijī, you are all after spiritualism. Why you are using this clay as tilaka and so many things you are using which is matter?" So I explained to him... Perhaps you have known. Actually, there is no matter, actually, in this sense, because everything is emanating from the Supreme Spirit. Everything is emanating... Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. What is the Absolute Truth? The Absolute Truth is that from which everything is emanating*-the source, the fountainhead, the fountainhead of everything. So whatever we see... Now, of course, we are in condition, material condition. We see everything material. But even this material energy is also spiritual because it is coming from the spirit, the Supreme Spirit. Suppose anything comes from the fire, it is hot. Fire, anything coming from... Anything you take. You are cooking daily, and as soon as you cook something it becomes very hot, and you take it from... It is hot. You cannot touch it. So by nature, everything is hot or everything is spirit because it is coming from the spirit, by nature. Just like sunshine. Sunshine has got all the qualities of the sun. Sunshine has got temperature. Sunshine has got illuminating power as the original sun has got. Similarly, although the whole creation, whole manifestation, is the display of the energy of the Supreme Lord, they are not different in quality. In quality there is no difference. Just like the sunshine and the sun. It may be the temperature in the sun planet is very great. That's all right. But you cannot say that sun is hot, but the sunshine is cold. No. That cannot be. That cannot be. It may be the degree of temperature lesser, but there is temperature. That is the sign that it is coming, emanating from sunshine. Similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that this whole manifestation, there are different kinds of energy.

*That is confirmed in the Vedas, Vedic literature, Upaniṣad also: parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The energy of the Lord are differently manifested. Just like this light. Take the same example, fire. Fire is placed in one place, but it is manifesting in different way. It is illuminating, it is distributing its heat from one place. Similarly, the Supreme Lord, He may be far, far away. He's not far, far away, because He is present by His energy. Just like sunshine. Sun is far, far away from us, but he is present just before us by his shining. We can understand what is sun. Similarly, if you study the energy of the Supreme Lord, then you are in conscious, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you engage yourself in the energy of Kṛṣṇa, then you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become nonseparated. You become nonseparated from Him. Just like qualitatively the sunshine and the sun is hot, warm, similarly, you are also the same spiritual energy, or this whole world is spiritual energy, nothing but... There is nothing but spiritual... Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. But how to realize it? If everything is Brahman, then why we are separating, "This is material, this is spiritual"? This is māyā. This is called māyā. Māyā means illusion or forgetfulness. How it happens? It happens just like the sunshine is covered by cloud. Sunshine is covered by cloud*-not all the sunshine. An insignificant part of the sunshine is sometimes covered by the cloud. And when it is covered by the cloud, there are so many inconveniences. Just like you say in New York when you find a sunshine in the sky, you say, "Oh, today is very nice." Why nice? Because the pure sky is open. Therefore it is very nice. And so long it is over, covered by cloud, you don't find so happy. Similarly, if you can, I mean to say, drive away the cloud of ignorance, then you actually becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Cloud of ignorance. And what is that cloud of ignorance? The cloud of ignorance is that "I am the enjoyer." The first beginning of cloud of ignorance... (end)



SB 7.9: Lectures





760208SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.1

-

Māyāpur, February 8, 1976



Prabhupāda:



evaṁ surādayaḥ sarve

*brahma*-rudra-puraḥ sarāḥ

nopaitum aśakan manyu-

saṁrambhaṁ sudurāsadam

[SB 7.9.1]



Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if He is pleased upon somebody, nobody can annihilate him. Similarly, if He is angry upon somebody, nobody can protect him. There is a Bengali (saying) payara(?), rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. If Kṛṣṇa wants to kill somebody... Kṛṣṇa does not kill, neither the living entity is ever killed. Just like father. If he chastises his son, it is not chastisement; *it is favor. The devotees can understand that even sometimes we meet very reverse condition of life, it is also favor. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su*-samīkṣamāṇaḥ [SB 10.14.8]. Anyone who can see that this unfavorable condition of life is also another favor of Kṛṣṇa... Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ. "Even there is some suffering, it is not given by Kṛṣṇa. I am suffering on account of my past misdeeds, and Kṛṣṇa is so kind that I would have suffered many hundred thousand times more than the present suffering, but Kṛṣṇa is adjusting the whole thing by little suffering." This is the vision of devotee. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjana evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam. Ātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam. A devotee never accuses Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, I am serving You so nicely, and You are giving me so much suffering?" No. This is not devotee's view. Devotee will take that "This so-called suffering is also Kṛṣṇa's favor." Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ. So those who are going forward with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should not be, I mean, a debtor to any condition of life.



*So surādayaḥ. Surādayaḥ means demigods headed by Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva. Yaṁ brahmā*-varuṇendra-rudra stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is worshiped even by Brahma. Yaṁ brahmā-varuṇendra: Indra, Varuna and Indra... There are big, big stalwart demigods. They also offer their respect. They think themselves as subordinate, humble servants of Kṛṣṇa. Śiva-viriñci-nutam [SB 11.5.33]. Kṛṣṇa is offered obeisances even by demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā. Śiva-viriñci-nutam.

*yaṁ brahmā*-varuṇendra-rudra(-marutaḥ) stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair

*vedaiḥ sāṅga*-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ

*dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino

*yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura*-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ



*So the anger is there, Kṛṣṇa, but His anger is worshiped. And our anger is different. That is the distinction between spirit and matter. So here surādayaḥ sarve brahma*-rudra-puraḥ sarāḥ na upaitum aśakan manyu. There is anger. Kṛṣṇa, to kill Hiraṇyakaśipu, He became so angry that even big, big stalwart demigods, brahmādaya... Because demigods... The list of demigods begins from Lord Brahmā. He is the original father of the demigods and all other living entities. He's therefore known as prajā-pati or called pitā-maha, grandfather, prajā-pati. He is the origin of everything. The Darwin's theory, a rascal theory, that there was no life, but according to Vedic knowledge there were the best life, Brahmā. From there begins life, and gradually they become degraded, material contamination. Not that there was no life. From low type of living condition one is elevated higher and higher. That is a wrong theory. The real theory is that life begins from the most exalted person, Lord Brahmā, prajā-pati. So in any auspicious matter they are forward, because you cannot approach God in your lower condition of life. You see? Lower condition of life means sinful reaction. In that condition you cannot approach God. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. (aside:) Who is talking? Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme pure, pavitraṁ paramam. Paramam means extreme. So nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa while He is impure. That is not possible. Just like some rascals, they say, "It doesn't matter what you are eating, what you are doing. There is no hindrance for your spiritual advancement." These rascals, these fools, misleading the whole world that in the matter of understanding the Supreme Person one can behave like the low-grade persons. No. That is not possible. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12].



*So if you have to approach the supreme pure, you have to become pure. Otherwise there is no possibility. Without being fire, you cannot enter into the fire. Then you'll be burned. Similarly, although you are also Brahman... Part of Parabrahman is also Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is our identification. But what kind of Brahman? But minute particle of Brahman, small particle. Just like spark and the whole fire. Both of them are fire, but spark is spark, and the big fire is big fire. So the spark cannot become big fire. If he wants to become so, then he falls down. Then whatever little light was there, fire, it becomes extinguished. If the spark out of impudency wants to try to become the big fire, then he falls down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by severe austerities and penances you can rise up to the impersonal Brahman, but you'll fall down again. That is the fact. So many persons, they are trying to become merged into the existence of the Supreme Brahman, but the result is they are falling down. They must fall down. It is not possible. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Without taking care to worship the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they are falling down. So we should be very, very careful not to try to become equal or greater than Kṛṣṇa. There are some rascals, they say that "Such and such rascal is greater than Kṛṣṇa." I do not wish to mention their name. That rascals, they say that "Aurobindo is greater than Kṛṣṇa." They say like that. Do you know that? So this, the world, is full of rascals and fools. We have to... Very cautiously and intelligently we have to make progress in spiritual life. Don't take it very insignificantly. We should be very much careful. Otherwise there is falldown, and once falldown means a gap of millions of years. You have got this human form of life to complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but if you are not serious, then again the gap will be millions of years.

*Therefore our duty is tāṅdera caraṇa sevi, bhakta*-sane vās. We should live with the devotees and be engaged in the service of the ācāryas. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. One should understand ācārya as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Don't disregard him. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. These are the statement. So we must be very cautious. Just like here also. The brahmādaya, big, big demigods, they could not pacify, appease the Lord. He was angry. Evaṁ surādayaḥ sarve brahma-rudra-puraḥ sarāḥ. Big, big personalities, rudra, na upaitum. Na upaitum aśakan manyu. They could not pacify Hmm, and saṁrambhaṁ sudurāsadam. Sudurāsadam, very, very difficult. Once we are condemned by Kṛṣṇa, it is very, very difficult to rise up again. Mūḍhā janmani janmani [Bg. 16.20]. Life after life we shall be condemned. That is our punishment. So don't do anything which will make Kṛṣṇa unhappy. Simply engage yourself in the service of the Lord. Very simple thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Simply always think of Him. Do not think anyone, anything else. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Just try to maintain your service for Kṛṣṇa. There is twenty-four hours' engagement, and try to follow it. Do not neglect it. That will make your life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



770210SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.1

-

Māyāpur, February 10, 1977



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



*śrī*-nārada uvāca

evaṁ surādayaḥ sarve

*brahma*-rudra-puraḥ sarāḥ

nopaitum aśakan manyu-

saṁrambhaṁ sudurāsadam

[SB 7.9.1]



Translation. "The great saint Nārada Muni continued: The demigods, headed by Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva and other great demigods, dared not come forward before the Lord, who at that time was extremely angry."



Prabhupāda: Anymore? Translation? Oh, you have done. Read the purport. Purport.



*Pradyumna: Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung in his prema-bhakti-candrikā, 'krodha' bhakta-dveṣi jane: anger should be used to punish a demon who is envious of devotees. Kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada and mātsarya-lust, anger, greed, illusion, pride and envy*-all have their proper use for the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His devotee. A devotee of the Lord cannot tolerate blasphemy of the Lord or His other devotees, and the Lord also cannot tolerate blasphemy of a devotee. Thus Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva was so very angry that the great demigods like Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva and even the goddess of fortune, who is the Lord's constant companion, could not pacify Him, even after offering prayers of glorification and praise. No one was able to pacify the Lord in His anger, but because the Lord was willing to exhibit His affection for Prahlāda Mahārāja, all the demigods and the others present before the Lord pushed Prahlāda Mahārāja forward to pacify Him.



*Prabhupāda: So, in the material world, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, and mātsarya, these things are condemned. And for a sādhana, (?) means a neophyte devotee, he is advised to give up these low grade habits*-kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, mātsarya. But people may question, "Wherefrom these lowgrade qualities came? Kāma is low grade, admitted, but wherefrom it came?" In the Vedānta-sūtra we get the reply, janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "Everything that we experience, it comes from God." So... (aside:) You stand that side. You are standing. They can stand.



*So without the original source, even these low grade things, wherefrom it comes? It comes from God. Just like adharma, irreligiosity, is described as the back side of God and religiosity is described as the front side of God. So there is no difference between front side and back side*-Absolute. God is absolute any way. Even apart from God's body, even in our body, we do not make any distinction. Suppose if there is some trouble, if there is some boil here in the front side and if there is some boil in the back side, does it mean I shall not take care of the back side boil? I shall take care of it, I shall have treatment for it. I cannot neglect the back side boil because it has come out from the back side. There is no such reason.

*So these bad habits, kāma krodha*-kāma means lust; *krodha means anger*-so if they are also coming from God, then how we can neglect it? How we can reject it? So there is no need of rejecting. That is the Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's... You cannot reject. That is not possible. As you are a living being, there must be kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. You cannot reject it. You cannot make it zero. That is impersonalism. But it has its proper use. That you have to know. Unless you know the proper use of everything, everything... Proper use means it must be used for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is proper use. Otherwise it is misused. There is no such thing as bad. Everything is good when it is used for Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between material and spiritual. Spiritual, everything is good, and material, everything is bad. You cannot make any distinction. When a thing is used materially it is bad. Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna. Dvaite-means in this world of duality-everything is bad. They have invented some artificial meaning, "This is good, this is bad," but actually everything is bad in the material world. There is nothing good. And just the opposite: in the spiritual world, everything is good.

*The other day I was giving the example that Kṛṣṇa is thief also. Mākhanaḥ*-cora. And there is still in Remuṇā, Kṣiraḥ-cora. Kṣiraḥ-cora. He's famous, "The thief who stolen condensed milk." So this chori means stealing is there in Kṛṣṇa. Does it mean that it is bad? No. It is good. Because it is connected with Kṛṣṇa, it is good. Otherwise how people are worshiping a thief? And when it is used materially, when I steal something for my sense gratification, I am beaten with shoes. Then this is the distinction. Anything, bad or good, they are coming from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Ahaṁ-sarvasya prabhavaḥ: "I am the origin of everything." So anything coming from Kṛṣṇa, how it can be bad? It cannot be bad. Absolute. Kṛṣṇa says personally, and Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "Absolute Truth is that from where everything is coming." So the lust is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. We find lusty desire among the gopīs, among Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, ramya kācid upāsana vrajavadhū kalpitā: "There is no better mode of worship than it was conceived by the vrajavadhū, damsels of Vraja, Vṛndāvana, parakīya-rasa." But in the material world Caitanya Mahāprabhu was so strict about woman that once upon a time there was singing of woman in the Jagannātha temple, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was running fast: "Oh, how nice singing is going on in the temple. Let Me go and hear." Then Govinda, His personal servant, checked Him: "My dear Sir, this singing is done by woman." "Oh? It is woman? Govinda, you have saved My life." Just see. And the same Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended about the gopīs who loved Kṛṣṇa as paramour: ramya kācid upāsana vrajavadhū-vargabhir ya kalpitā. Just see the distinction. The same business is there, but it is all spiritual.

Therefore Absolute, everything is variegated, blissful. They do not understand. The sahajiyā means the blissful dealings, transcendental, spiritual dealings of gopīs and Kṛṣṇa, they take it as material. Therefore they are condemned. They are... It looks similar, but it is not the same, thing. One is gold; *one is iron. A polished iron, a golden thing, golden color, does not mean it is gold. "All that glitters is not gold." So we should not mistake. Therefore one who cannot distinguish the spiritual lust and the material lust, they should avoid very strictly. They have no spiritual realization. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has strictly avoided. In His kīrtana He never described the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, His dealings with gopīs. That we mark in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Eighteen years He lived in Jagannātha Purī. Every night there was kīrtana, but there was no līlā-kīrtana you'll find, no līlā-kīrtana. Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. No līlā. But does it mean that Caitanya Mahāprabhu avoided līlā-kīrtana? No. He enjoyed it with very, very confidential devotees like Rāmānanda Rāya, Svarūpa Dāmodara, like that. Not for the... Because so long we are in the lower stage of devotion we shall misunderstand. They are doing that. You'll find that the rascals who have no idea about Kṛṣṇa, they are very much fond of painting Kṛṣṇa's picture dealings with the gopīs, because they take it that it is just like we deal with young men or woman, it is something like that. So that is a great mistake. They should not. Then they will become sahajiyā. Very strictly prohibited. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Śukadeva Gosvāmī has warned that one should not even dream like that, that "Kṛṣṇa's dealing with gopīs is just like our dealing with woman." No. It ms completely different. Therefore we have to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vyāsadeva has devoted nine cantos to understand Kṛṣṇa, and then, in the Tenth Canto, he has put the gopīs' dealings with Kṛṣṇa. That is also beginning from twenty-ninth chapter.

*So we should always know this, that lust is coming from Kṛṣṇa, but His lust, this lusty desire, and our lusty desire in the material world, they are not the same. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura advises, kāmaḥ kṛṣṇa*-kārmārpaṇe. We have got lusty desires, but it should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are very much anxious to fulfill our lusty desires. So if we turn our lusty desire for serving Kṛṣṇa, we should be equally enthu... (end)



770212SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.2

-

Māyāpur, February 12, 1977



Pradyumna: (reads synonyms, etc.) "Translation: The goddess of fortune, Lakṣmījī, was requested to go before the Lord by all the demigods present, who because of fear could not to so. But even she had never seen such a wonderful and extraordinary form of the Lord, and thus she could not approach Him."



Prabhupāda:



sākṣāt śrīḥ preṣitā devair

dṛṣṭvā taṁ mahad adbhutam

*adṛṣṭāśruta*-pūrvatvāt

sā nopeyāya śaṅkitā

[SB 7.9.2]



*So Śrī, Lakṣmī, she is always in company with Nārāyaṇa, Bhagavān. Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa. Wherever Nārāyaṇa there is, there is Lakṣmī. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśsasaḥ śriyaḥ. Śriyaḥ. So Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is always full in six opulence: aiśvarya, riches, samāgrasya, all riches... Nobody can compete with Him. Here in the material world there is competition. You have got one thousand; I have got two thousand; *another man has three thousand or three millions. Nobody can say, "Here is the end. I have got money." No. That is not possible. There must be competition. Sama urdhva. Sama means "equal," and urdhva means "greater." So nobody can become equal with Nārāyaṇa, and nobody can be greater than Nārāyaṇa. This has become a fashion nowadays, that daridra*-nārāyaṇa. No. Daridra cannot be Nārāyaṇa, neither Nārāyaṇa can be daridra, because Nārāyaṇa is always accompanied by Śrī, Lakṣmījī. How He can be daridra? These are manufactured foolish imagination. Aparādha.



yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahmā*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvena vikṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍi bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



*Śastra says, yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devam. Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Lord... Brahmā*-rudrādi daivataiḥ. What to speak of daridra, even if you equalize Nārāyaṇa with such big, big demigods like Brahmā or like Lord Śiva, if you look that "Nārāyaṇa is as good as Lord Brahmā or Lord Śiva," samatvena vikṣeta sa pāṣaṇḍi bhaved dhruvam, immediately he's a pāṣaṇḍi. Pāṣaṇḍi means most wretched. This is the sastric injunction. Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devam brahmā-rudrādi-daivataiḥ samatvena.



*So this has become a fashion, to equalize Nārāyaṇa with everyone. So in this way India's culture has been dismantled. Nārāyaṇa cannot be equal. Nārāyaṇa personally says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Another word is used: asamaurdhva. Nobody can be equal with Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu-tattva. No. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Ṛg mantra. Viṣṇoḥ padaṁ paramaṁ padam. Bhagavān is addressed by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Paramaṁ bhavān. So this paśandi imagination will kill one's advancement, spiritual life. Māyāvāda. Māyāvāda. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has strictly forbidden to associate with Māyāvādī. Māyāvādī bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-naśa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] "Anyone who has associated with the Māyāvādī, his spiritual life is finished." Sarva-naśa. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. You should be very, very careful to avoid these Māyāvādī rascals. There cannot be such thing as "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." It is impossible.

*So Nārāyaṇa is always associated with sākṣāt śrīḥ. Śrī, especially here, Śrī, Lakṣmījī, is mentioned, that she is associated with Nārāyaṇa constantly. That Śrī expansion is in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka. Lakṣmī*-sahasra śata-sambrahma sevyamānaṁ.

*cintāmaṇi prakara*-sadmasu kalpa vṛkṣa

lakśāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī sahasra-śata sambrahma*-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*Not only one Śrī, Lakṣmī, but lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata. And they are serving the Lord, sambrahma sevyamānaṁ. We are praying to Lakṣmījī with sambrahma, "Mother, give me little money. Give me little favor I may be happy." We are worshiping Śrī. Still, she does not remain, Śrī. Śrī's another name is Cañcalā. Cañcalā, she is in this material world. Today I may be millionaire, tomorrow I may be beggar in the street. Because every opulence depends on money. So money, here nobody can have fixed up. That is not possible. That Śrī which is so flickering, they are worshiping the Lord with sambrahma, with respect. Here we are thinking, "Lakṣmī may not go away," but there, Śrī is thinking, "Kṛṣṇa may not go away." That is the difference. Here we are afraid that Lakṣmī may go away at any moment, and they are afraid Kṛṣṇa may go away. This is the difference. So such Kṛṣṇa, such Nārāyaṇa, how He can be daridra? This is all imagination.



*So sakṣat śrī. She is always associated. If anyone tries to separate Śrī from Nārāyaṇa, then he will be vanquished. The example is Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa wanted to separate Lakṣmī from Rāma. This attempt is so dangerous that Rāvaṇa, instead of becoming happy... He was so*-called happy, materially opulent. But as soon as he separated Lakṣmī from Nārāyaṇa, he became vanquished with all his friend. So don't try to do that, to separate Lakṣmī from Nārāyaṇa. She cannot be separated. But if anyone attempts like that, he'll be ruined. He'll be ruined. The example is Rāvaṇa. So at the present moment people are very much fond of śrī, money. Śrī-aiśvaryā. Śrī-aiśvaryā. Śrī-aiśvaryā prajepsavaḥ. General people, they want śrī, money, or beauty, beautiful woman. Śrī-aiśvaryā, money, riches. Śrī aiśvaryā prajepsavaḥ. Prajā. Prajā means family, society, money. They want. So Śrī is always hankered after, searched after. But do not try to keep Śrī alone. Then you'll be ruined. This is the instruction. You do not try to keep Śrī alone. Keep always with Nārāyaṇa. Then you'll be happy. Keep Nārāyaṇa. So those are riches, those who have got riches, rich, they should worship Nārāyaṇa also with that money. Spend money. Money is meant for service of Nārāyaṇa. So if you have got money, don't spoil it like Rāvaṇa, but engage it in Kṛṣṇa's service. If you have got money, just spend it for very costly temple, for installing Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Sītā-Rāma, like that. Don't spoil your money in other way. Then you'll always remain rich. You'll never become poor. But as soon as you try to cheat Nārāyaṇa, that "I have taken Your Lakṣmī," you starve. That policy is very bad.

*So anyway, wherever there is Śrī, there is Nārāyaṇa, and wherever there is Nārāyaṇa, there is Śrī. Therefore Nārāyaṇa and Śrī... Nṛsiṁhadeva is Nārāyaṇa, and Lakṣmī, They are constantly assoc... Therefore the devas, the demigods, when they saw that "Nārāyaṇa, Nṛsiṁhadeva, was very, very angry. Nobody can pacify Him," so they thought that "Lakṣmījī is personal associate, constantly with Nārāyaṇa, so let her go and pacify Him." That is stated here. Sākṣāt śrīḥ preṣitā devair. The devas, Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva and others, they requested, "Mother, you try to pacify your husband. It is not possible by us." But she also became afraid. She also became afraid. Sākṣāt śrīḥ preṣita devair dṛṣṭvā taṁ mahad adbhutam. She knows that "My husband has appeared as Nṛsiṁhadeva," but because that wonderful feature of the Lord was so fearful, she did not dare to come before Him. Why? Now, adṛṣṭaśruta*-pūrvatvāt: since she also never knew that the her husband can assume the form of Nṛsiṁhadeva. This Nṛsiṁhadeva feature was specifically adopted for Hiraṇyakaśipu. This is all-powerful. Hiraṇyakaśipu took benediction from Lord Brahmā that no god, demigod can kill him, no man can kill him, no animal can kill him, and so on, so on, so on. Indirectly he made a plan that nobody could kill him. And because first of all he wanted to become immortal, so Lord Brahmā said that "I am not immortal. How can I give you the benediction of becoming...? That is not possible." So these rākṣasas, demons, they are very intelligent, duṣkṛtina, intelligent-but for sinful activities. That is the feature of the rākṣasa. So he planned something, that "Indirectly I shall take benediction from Lord Brahmā in such a way that I'll remain immortal." So in order to keep Brahmā's promise, Nārāyaṇa appeared as Nṛsiṁhadeva, half lion and half man. Therefore adṛṣṭāśruta-pūrva. Even Lakṣmī did not see such feature of the Lord, the half man, half lion. This is Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa, all-powerful. He can assume any form. That is... Adṛṣṭā aśruta-purva. Never saw. Although she is associated with the Nārāyaṇa, but she never saw such wonderful feature of the Nārāyaṇa. Therefore it is said, adṛṣṭā aśruta-pūrvatvāt sā na upeyāya śaṅkitā. Lakṣmījī is chaste. So śaṅkitā: she was fearful, "May be He's different person." And she is the chaste, the most chaste. How she can mix with different person? Therefore śaṅkitā. This word is used, śaṅkitā. Although she is supposed to know everything, still, she was thinking, "May not be my husband." This is the ideal chaste, chastity, that even Lakṣmījī, being doubtful about Viṣṇu, she did not talk, did not approach. Śaṅkitā. This is another quality of Lakṣmījī. She became afraid, "He may not be Nārāyaṇa." Because she's never experienced of her husband such wonderful feature, half lion and half man. So adṛṣṭāśruta-pūrvatvāt sa nopeyāya śaṅkitā.

*So if we study the character of Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa, then we shall cease to manufacture such words as daridra-nārāyaṇa or this or that. No. We should therefore never follow this pāṣaṇḍi.

yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahmārudrādi*-daivataiḥ

samatvena vikṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍi bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



*Pāṣaṇḍi means devil, or nondevotee. Abhaktā hīna cara. Be careful not to mix with nondevotee who imagines about God. They do not believe in God actually. This pāṣaṇḍi means who do not believe in God. They think that there is no God, but they simply say, "Yes, there is God, but God has no head, no tail, no mouth, nothing." And then what is God then? But these rascals say nirākāra. Nirākāra means there is no God. Say frankly that there is no God. Why do you say, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, no tail, no leg, no hand"? So what is there? So this is another cheating. Those who are atheist, they say frankly, "I do not believe in God. There is no..." That we can understand. But these rascals, they say, "There is God, but nirākāra." Nirākāra means there is no God, but sometimes the word is used nirākāra. But that nirākāra does not mean God has no akāra. That nirākāra means that not this material akāra. Iśavaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇahsac*-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ. His body is sac-cid-ānanda. That is completely impossible to see within this material world. Our body is not sat. It is asat. This body which I have got now or you have got, it will remain so long this life... And when it is finished, it is finished forever. You'll never get this body again. Therefore asat.



*But Kṛṣṇa's body is not like that. Kṛṣṇa's body is the same, sat, always the same. Kṛṣṇa's another name is narakṛti. Our body is imitation of Kṛṣṇa's body, not that Kṛṣṇa's body is imitation of our body. No. Kṛṣṇa has got His body, narakṛti, nara-vapu. These things are there. But that vapu is not like this asat. Our body is asat. It will not stay. His body is sac-cid-ānanda. Our body is asat, acit and nirānanda, just opposite. It will not stay, and there is no knowledge, acit, and there is no bliss. Always we are unhappy. So nirākāra means not a body like this. His body is different. Ānanda cinmāyā rasa pratibhavitabhis [Bs. 5.37]. Ānanda-cinmāyā. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya vṛtti-manti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti [Bs. 5.32]. His aṅgāni, aṅgāni, parts of the body, are described, sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti. I can see with my eyes. My, this special function of my, this part of the body is to see. But Kṛṣṇa, sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti*-He can not only see, but He can eat also. That is import. By seeing, we cannot eat, but whatever we offer, if Kṛṣṇa sees, He eats also. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti. So how we can compare Kṛṣṇa's body with our body? But avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Those who are rascals, they think that "Kṛṣṇa has two hands, two legs; therefore I am also Kṛṣṇa. I am also." So don't be misled by the rascals, pāṣaṇḍi. Take as there in the śāstra, learn it from authorized sources, and be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



760210SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.3

-

Māyāpur, February 10, 1976



Hṛdayānanda: Oh. "Thereafter Lord Brahmā requested Prahlāda Mahārāja, who was standing very nearby, and asked Prahlāda Mahārāja to go forward and said, 'My dear son, Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva is very, very angry upon your demonic father, and you can go forward and appease Him, the Lord.' "



Prabhupāda:



prahrādaṁ preṣayām āsa

brahmāvasthitam antike

tāta praśamayopehi

*sva*-pitre kupitaṁ prabhum

[SB 7.9.3]



So all of them, all the demigods, they wanted to pacify. The Lord was very angry, but they failed. Then, at last, they requested Lakṣmījī to pacify the Lord. She could not dare to approach Him; *what is the speaking of pacifying? Then, at last, they decided that "This five*-years-old boy, the Lord may be compassionate upon him. And for him He has appeared, so let him be engaged in pacifying the Lord." So Brahmā, the head of all the demigods presented there, he decided, prahlādaṁ preṣayām āsa. He pushed him forward: "My dear Prahlāda, my dear son, better you go forward and pacify." It is something like to push a little child in the cage of the lion. It is something like that. Nobody dared. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he knew very well that "However ferocious He may be, I am not afraid. He is my Lord. I am not afraid." He was jolly, innocent, pure devotee. He had no fear. So he was sent: "My dear Prahlāda, you try."



*So brahmā avasthitam antike. He was very near sitting, but he had no fear. Just on the lotus feet, near the lotus feet of the Lord, he was sitting. Others were contemplating. He was free, that "I am under the shelter of the Lord." Svapāda*-mūle, mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. "He is Murāri, and everything is under His feet." This is the conclusion when one is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he was a boy of five years old, it did not matter. He was first-class devotee, maha-bhāgavata. That is possible. The devotional service is nothing material. It is spiritual. So there is nothing impossible, impossible. That is real appreciation of spiritual life. If one thinks that "Prahlāda Mahārāja was only five years old. How he could offer such nice verses in glorifying the Lord?" that is possible. Bhakti does not depend on the age. Bhakti depends on sincerity of service. It is not that because one man is older than me, therefore he will be greater devotee. No. Ahaituky apratihatā. First of all, bhakti must be without any motive, without any motive of personal sense gratification. That is real bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. We have to make all our desires zero. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam. People are trying to understand the whole creation by knowledge, but bhakti does not depend on knowledge. Jñāna-karma... Or karma. Karma means fruitive action. Not that because you are a very big businessman, you are very successful, therefore it will be easy for you to understand Kṛṣṇa. No. That is not possible. Or if you think one is very poor in knowledge, lowborn, no education, still he can understand bhakti and Lord, provided he is pure devotee.

*So material conditions, they are not practically applicable to spiritual life. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore, He said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra. Whatever Rāmānanda Rāya was proposing, "This is the beginning of bhakti..." He suggested varṇāśrama*-dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, even full surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. All, everything, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha: "These are external formality. If you know something better than this, please explain." So Rāmānanda Rāya, when, I mean to say, quoted a verse from Brahma's prayer, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ prāyeṇa ajita api jito... Kṛṣṇa is ajita. Nobody can conquer Him. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. Nobody is greater in every respect. Not that "Kṛṣṇa is shorter at least in this respect." He is shorter in one respect, that He could not repay back the obligation He received from the gopīs. He was only shorter to the gopīs. That is His grace. He said that "I cannot repay you. It is impossible. Please be satisfied with your own service." That is the gopīs. So He was shorter always, especially before Rādhārāṇī. He felt Himself shorter. Otherwise He is the Supreme. He is always the Supreme. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So if you want to conquer over this unconquerable Kṛṣṇa, then, according to the prayer of Brahmā and appreciated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ: "You remain in your place, it doesn't matter, but you become very humble. Don't be puffed up." Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. You should not think yourself that you are very advanced, "By my speculative knowledge I can understand God." That is mistake. That is not possible. You have to give up first of all this attempt, that "I am very learned," "I am very rich,"or "I am very this and that. Therefore for me to understand God, it is nothing." They think like that. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhiḥ [SB 1.8.26]. Those who are very much proud, they do not take Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously. They think, "These poor fellow who had no money, no foodstuff, they have come in the name of Kṛṣṇa for begging. So it is for them. It is not for us. I am very rich. I am very opulent. I am very educated. I am very aristocratic. So for me there is no need of." The Indians say like that in your country. "Now we have known this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. We have... Now it is not needed. Now it is technology."

*So these puffed-up persons cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. One has to become very humble. Christ also says, "The kingdom of God is for the humble and the meek." That is actually... And Kṛṣṇa also says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the beginning of humbleness: "Yes, I have nothing, insignificant." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān mām [Bg. 7.19]. This is real knowledge, to remain always insignificant before guru-Kṛṣṇa. Then it is profit. If somebody thinks that "I have become more than my guru, more than Kṛṣṇa," then he is finished. So one should become very humble and meek. It doesn't matter where he is situated, either this institutionally, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Even one has taken sannyāsa, he should remain always humble. So never we should think that "I have become very big personality." That was the instruction of my Guru Mahārāja, that baḍa vaiṣṇava-"I am very big Vaiṣṇava. Everyone should come and obey my orders"*-this is condemned position. The real position is one should be very humble and meek. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Namanta means humble. One should be prepared to learn from... Namanta eva san-mukhari... Those who are pure devotee. From them one should be very much anxious to hear. That, the same thing, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Brs. 1.1.11]. Who has no other desire in the material world except to serve Kṛṣṇa, he is pure devotee. So one should be anxious in humbleness to hear from such personality. Sthāne... It doesn't require to change. There are so many questions sometimes: whether it is necessary to take sannyāsa and It is... By the routine work, it is necessary. But if one is serious, so for him it is not necessary-ahaituky apratihatā-because for a serious student of devotion, Kṛṣṇa is in his hand. So anyway, even if you are a sannyāsī or gṛhastha or vānaprastha, it doesn't matter. You should remain very humble. That is required. Sthāne sthitāḥ. And you should hear from the realized soul in humbleness. Then the Kṛṣṇa, the great, He will be conquered by you.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja was that type of mahā*-bhāgavatam. He was not... As a child, he had... He did not know the sophistry or formality to become unnecessarily very prestigious. He was by nature a small boy. Just like here, these boys. If you insult, he doesn't care for it because he is child. Or if you praise him, he does not think himself very much puffed up. This is child's nature. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was in that position. He didn't care. His father wanted to chastise him in so many ways. He didn't care. He (was) always thinking, "He is my father. He is joking. That's all." This is simplicity. This is simplicity. This simplicity is very valuable. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was in that position. Therefore Brahmā selected him, that "My dear Prahlāda, my dear child, please approach the Lord. You can try to pacify Him." Prahrādaṁ preṣayām āsa brahmāvasthitam antike, tāta: "My dear child, my dear boy," tāta praśamayo upehi, "please go forward and try to pacify Him." Sva-pitre kupitaṁ prabhum: "Our Lord, Prabhu, He has become very, very angry." Nobody can excess in His anger. Just like nobody can excel the Supreme Personality of Godhead in anything, similarly, when He is angry, nobody can excel Him. He becomes so angry. So He is always... "God is great" means great in everything. When He is angry, nobody can excel Him in His anger. And when He is very peaceful, nobody can excel Him. This is God. Asamaurdha. God means nobody is equal; *nobody is greater. So when the Lord was angry, nobody can show His anger equally and nobody can become greatly anger or more greatly angry than Kṛṣṇa. He is always topmost. This is... So such anger was exhibited. Why? Now, it is said, sva*-pitre kupitam. He's inducing, Brahmā inducing, that "We never seen the Lord so angry, but it is on account of your father, so it is your duty. You go there." (chuckles) The child will accept, "Yes. My father committed so many offenses. Therefore it is my duty to pacify the Lord." Therefore he is reminding because he was a child, "My dear child, it is for your father He has become so angry, so it is your duty. Go and pacify Him." So every word in Bhāgavata, there is meaning. Sva-pitre kupitaṁ prabhum: "Don't think that it is our duty; it is your duty. Although we are Brahmā, Lakṣmī, all right. So real duty is yours." This is little joking.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is prepared, "All right," either for his father or for everyone. That is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava does not consider that "I have to pray to Kṛṣṇa for my father, for my mother." No. Vaiṣṇava is ready to offer prayer... Para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is always unhappy, seeing these fallen conditioned souls unhappy. Other... Vaiṣṇava personally, he has no unhappiness. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyāḥ. That will be explained. Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa, indriyārtha-māya-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. So Vaiṣṇava is always sorry for the rascals in the world. Otherwise he has nothing to be unhappy. He can sit down anywhere; he can sleep anywhere; *he can eat anything. He doesn't require anyone's help. He... As Kṛṣṇa is self*-sufficient, similarly, Kṛṣṇa, not exactly like that, but a Vaiṣṇava is also self-sufficient, depending only on Kṛṣṇa. That is Vaiṣṇava. So he has nothing to lament or nothing to regret. He is always pleased in the service of the Lord, but he is always sorry for the conditioned souls who are for suffering the material pangs on account of ignorance.

Thank you very much. (end)



770217SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.3

-

Māyāpur, February 17, 1977



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Thereafter Lord Brahmā requested Prahlāda Mahārāja, who was standing very near him: My dear son, Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva is extremely angry at your demoniac father. Please go forward and appease the Lord."



Prabhupāda:



prahrādaṁ preṣayām āsa

brahmāvasthitam antike

tāta praśamayopehi

*sva*-pitre kupitaṁ prabhum

[SB 7.9.3]



So Nṛsiṁhadeva was very, very angry. Now the atheist class of men, who do not know what is the nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they will say, "Why God should become angry?" So God, why He should not be angry? God must have everything; otherwise how He is God complete? Pūrṇam. The anger is also another quality of living symptom. The stone does not become angry because he's stone. But any living being, he becomes angry. That is a quality. And why God should not be angry? They imagine God; not they have got any factual conception of God. They imagine that "God must be like this. God must be nonviolent. God must be very peaceful." Why? Wherefrom the anger comes? It comes from God. Otherwise there is no existence of anger.



*Everything is there. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. That is the definition of Brahman. Whatever we have got in experience and whatever we haven't got in experience... We haven't got everything in experience. Just like about Nṛsiṁhadeva it is said Lakṣmī also had no experience that the Lord can become half*-lion, half-man. Even Lakṣmī, what to speak of others. Lakṣmī, she is constant companion of the Lord. So it is said, aṣruta. What is that? Adṛṣṭa. Adṛṣṭa aṣruta pūrvatvāt. She became afraid because she also never saw such gigantic form and half-lion, half-man. God has so many forms: advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam. Ananta-rūpam; still, advaita. So in the Bhāgavata it is said that God's incarnations are exactly like the waves of the river or the sea. Nobody can count. You'll be tired if you want to count the number of waves. It is impossible. So God's incarnations are as many as there are waves. So you cannot count the waves; *therefore you cannot understand how many incarnations He has got. Even Lakṣmī, even Anantadeva, they haven't got. So our experience*-very limited. Why should we say that "God cannot have this, God cannot have..." like that? This is godlessness. They make section. They say... Even in our so-called Vedic Arya-samajhi, they assert that God cannot take incarnation. Why? If God is all-powerful, then why He shall not be able to accept incarnation?

*Therefore we should not take lessons of God from these rascals. We should take lessons of God from śāstra, from guru and from sādhu, one who has seen God, tattva*-darśina. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā, upadekṣyanti tad jñānam [Bg. 4.34]. Tad jñānam means spiritual knowledge. Tad-vijñānam.

*tad*-vijñānartham sa gurum evābhigacchet

*samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



*So tad*-vijñānam, you cannot imagine, speculate. That is not possible. You have to learn it from a person who is tattva-darśinaḥ, who has seen God. Even by seeing, you cannot... Just like Lakṣmīdevi, she is seeing every moment, constant... Even she does not know. Asruta-purva. Adrstāsruta-purva. So whatever we see or we do not see, everything is there. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. Kṛṣṇa says: "Whatever you see, whatever you experience, I am the origin of everything." So anger must be there. How you can say that "God should not be angry. God should not be like this. God should not..."? No. That is not fact. That is our inexperience.



So Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, he is supposed to be the first living being within this universe. Lakṣmī became afraid; *Brahmā also became very afraid. Therefore Brahmā requested Prahlāda Mahārāja that "You go forward, my dear son, and appease the Lord. You can do because for you He has appeared in this fierceful feature. Your father offended Him in so many ways by teasing you, by punishing you, by putting you into difficulty. Therefore He has appeared in very angry. So you can appease Him. We cannot. It is not possible." Prahlāda preṣayām āsa brahma avasthita antike. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, being very exalted devotee, he could appease the Lord. Bhaktyā, by bhakti, you can control the Supreme Lord. That is the only way. Bhaktyā maṁ abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. The understanding is also through bhakti, and through bhakti you can control God. Vedeṣu durlabha adurlabha ātmā*-bhaktau. You cannot understand God by studying Vedas. Vedeṣu durlabha. Adurlabha ātmā-bhaktau. But for His devotees, He is very, very easily available. Therefore bhakti is the only source. Bhaktyām ekayā grāhyam. Only through bhakti you can approach, you can talk with God on equal level just like friend. The cowherd boys, they were treating Kṛṣṇa on the same status: "Kṛṣṇa is like us." But they loved Kṛṣṇa very, very intensely. That is their qualification. Therefore Kṛṣṇa sometimes agreed to take the cowherd boys on His shoulder. So this is the... Kṛṣṇa wants that, that "My bhakta... Be My bhakta and control Me. Everyone worships Me with awe and veneration. I want somebody should come forward and control Me." That He wants. Therefore He has accepted mother Yaśodā to control Him. How God can be controlled? Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. He's the supreme controller. Who can control Him? It is not possible. But He agrees to be controlled by His pure devotee. He agrees, "Yes, mother, you control Me. You bind Me. You show Me your stick so that I may be afraid."

*So everything is there. Don't think that God is zero. No. Śūnyavādi. Everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. You are inquiring about Brahman. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So there must be anger, not that God should be always peaceful. But the difference is His anger and His peaceful attitude produces the same result. Prahlāda Mahārāja, a devotee, He is very satisfied with Prahlāda Mahārāja and He is very much dissatisfied with his father, but result is the same: both of them got liberation. Although a devotee becomes associate whereas the demon who is killed by God, he does not become an associate... He is not qualified. But he enters into the spiritual kingdom. He gets liberation from this material bondage. So why a devotee should take the same position? Therefore, māṁ eti. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad*-anantaram. They viśate, enters, enters in the spiritual kingdom. Everyone who is liberated, he is entered.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate...

[Bg. 18.54]



*But those who are devotees, they are allowed to enter into the planet, Vaikuṇṭha planet or Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. In this way one gets his original position. But if we do not take to bhakti, then we may enter into the Brahman effulgence, but there is chance of falling down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta*-yusmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. So those who are impersonalist, they may enter into the spiritual kingdom. That is called paraṁ padaṁ. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58]. But there is also chance of fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. After severe austerities and penances one can enter into the Brahman effulgence. But unless one gets information of the paraṁ padaṁ-samāśritā ye pada pallava plavam-there is chance of falling down. In the material world there is bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. But in spiritual also, if you enter into the spiritual kingdom, from there also... Even sometimes it so happens. Of course, that is by God's desire. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They were personal associates. But the explanation is Kṛṣṇa wanted that "They should go..., the Hiraṇyakaśipu..., these two, Jaya-Vijaya, they should go to the material world, and I must fight with them." Because that fighting, to become angry, that tendency is there. Where He will exhibit? In the Vaikuṇṭha there is no chance of exhibiting this anger and fighting. That is not possible. Therefore He induces His devotee to "Go to the material world and become My enemy, and I shall fight. I shall become angry," because in the Vaikuṇṭha, spiritual kingdom, there is no chance. Everyone is serving; everyone is friendly. Some relation... Where is the question of fighting? But fighting spirit is there; *anger is there. Where He shall exhibit? And therefore Kṛṣṇa incarnates, He becomes angry, and a devotee becomes enemy, and this is Kṛṣṇa*-līlā, nitya-līlā. It is going on.



Thank you very much. (end)



760211SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.4

-

Mayapur, February 11, 1976



Dayānanda: (chants verse, etc.) "Translation: O king Yudhiṣṭhira, Prahlāda Mahārāja, the exalted devotee, although a little boy, accepted the words of Lord Brahmā and gradually proceeded towards Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, and immediately fell down to offer his respectful obeisances with folded hands.



Prabhupāda:



tatheti śanakai rājan

*mahā*-bhāgavato 'rbhakaḥ

upetya bhuvi kāyena

nanāma vidhṛtāñjaliḥ

[SB 7.9.4]



*So, Prahlāda Mahārāja, mahā-bhāgavata, uttama-adhikārī. There are three stages of devotional platform. First stage is called kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, second stage is called madhyama-adhikārī, and third stage, or topmost stage, is called uttama-adhikārī. So, he was only five years old, how he became uttama-adhikārī, on the topmost stage? He had no training. Still, he is addressed here by Narada Muni-Narada Muni was his guru*-and still, he is describing Prahlāda Mahārāja as mahā-bhāgavata. That means even one is mahā-bhāgavata, he has to accept a guru. Narada Muni, his guru, he knows that "Prahlāda is my disciple, but he is mahā-bhāgavata." Not only that, before his birth, when he was within the womb of his mother...



*His mother was attacked by the demigods, headed by Indra, and they were dragging her to their palace. Narada Muni met, said "What are you doing this? You are harassing one woman?" "No sir, we are not harassing, only we are taking her in our place to wait for the deliverance of the child. Then we shall kill him. Because he is born of atheist father, so he is another demon." Narada Muni said, "No, no, no, you are mistaken. He is not demon, he is mahā*-bhāgavata." So in the beginning he was mahā-bhāgavata, since he was in within the womb of his mother. And later on he is mahā-bhāgavata. This is called nitya-siddha, eternally mahā-bhāgavata. Eternally mahā-bhāgavata never forgets Kṛṣṇa, in any circumstance. That is the sign of mahā-bhāgavata, nitya-siddha. Prahlāda Mahārāja was put into so many trials when he was only a child, still he never forgot Kṛṣṇa. That is the sign of mahā-bhāgavata. In any circumstances.

*It does not mean that because one is mahā*-bhāgavata he should not be put into trials. He can be put into trials, because the material world is like that. The western country, they, Lord Jesus Christ, he was put into trials but he never forgot Kṛṣṇa. This is sign of mahā-bhāgavata, nitya-siddha.

*gaurāṅgera saṅgi*-gaṇe nitya-siddha kori 'māne

*se jāy brajenda*-nandana pāś



*If one can understand nitya-siddha bhāgavata, then he immediately becomes eligible to go back to home, to back to godhead. This is the privilege of associating with mahā-bhāgavata. So our system is, (child crying-aside:) try and maintain (?). Evaṁ paramparā, to associate with the mahā-bhāgavata by words or by physical exposition (?). So mahā-bhāgavata arbhakaḥ. One may argue, arbhakaḥ means foolish child, who has no knowledge, he is called arbhakaḥ. How we can say mahā-bhāgavata? Arbhakaḥ, he has no knowledge. No. It is possible. Ahaituky apratihatā. Bhakti does not depend on age, or on advanced knowledge, or richness, or so many other things. Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. To take birth in high family, aristocracy, and to become rich, to become beautiful, to become very learned scholar. These things are material assets, but spiritual life does not depend on these things. One can become spiritually very advanced even though he is poor, he is born in a low, low-grade family.



*Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He was born in Muhammadan family, but mahā*-bhāgavata. There are so many examples. Not that because he was born in a Muhammadan family therefore he cannot. This Marchoism (?) is like that, but actually it is not. Ahaituky apratihatā. Bhakti is so purifying that any condition, any circumstances, one can become devotee.

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*Kṛṣṇa says. So everyone has got the potency to become mahā*-bhāgavata, provided he tries. Sādhana-siddha and nitya-siddha. Prahlāda Mahārāja is nitya-siddha and there are sādhana-siddhas, just like we are. We are trying to approach the topmost goal of life by bhajana, by sādhana. So anyone has got the potency to come to the stage of mahā-bhāgavata provided he follows the mahājana. You can become mahā-bhāgavata if you follow mahājana. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you follow the mahājana's path then everyone can become. Of course, it is not possible everyone to become mahā-bhāgavata, but there is possibility. Simply we have to become serious to follow the path of mahājana. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. Simply by argument, you cannot make advancement. Simply by neti neti, or there are many other processes, mystic yoga process to become very austere, remain silent, mauna-vrata śruta-tapa, tapasya, education, austerity. None of them are the cause, but becoming bhakta, only devotional service, if one is fixed up, dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ bhajanty, dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. So we should be very much firmly fixed up, following the rules and regulation.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja he is nitya*-siddha. Nitya-siddha means there are living entities, every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so one who does not fall down, he is called nitya-siddha. One who does not fall down. Just like in this material world there are millions and millions of living entities, but they have fallen down. But there are multi-millions and millions of living entities in the vaikuṇṭha-loka, they never fall down. They are called nitya-siddha. They never come here. So we have no information. This is only one-fourth manifestation of God's creation and the three-fourths creation of God is there. Not creation, it is everlasting. Just like in the prison house, if you go to the prison house, it does not mean that the whole state is there. It is only insignificant part of the state, and only the criminals they are put together.

*So this material world, material world means so many planets you see, so many stars and planets, the sun planet, moon planet and loka, sarva*-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. This is one universe, and there are millions of universes. Altogether that is material world, and that is one part of creation. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. The jagat means this material world. So the whole material, ananta koṭi. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. This ananta-koṭi-brahmāṇḍa is only one-fourth manifestation of God's creation, and just imagine what is the other three-fourth, that is spiritual world. So the nitya-siddha mahā-bhāgavata, they come from the spiritual world on the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they, by example, they preach Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. This is mahā-bhāgavata. By suffering, by example, everything, they look like ordinary men, but mahā-bhāgavata. How it is tested? Never forgets Kṛṣṇa. This is mahā-bhāgavata nitya-siddha. And sādhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of mahā-bhāgavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become mahā-bhāgavata or nitya-siddha, because originally everyone is nitya-siddha.

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti 'sādhya' kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*Every living entity originally nitya*-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world, and he was delivered also, both of them were delivered. So although you have fallen in this material world, and suffering the pangs of material existence, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9], on account of accepting this material body, still, Kṛṣṇa personally comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. This is glāniḥ, discrepancies. We are living this material existence, this is not real life. Real life is to become mahā-bhāgavata. So you cannot become a mahā-bhāgavata all of a sudden, but from kaniṣṭha-adhikārī,



arcāyām eva haraye

yaḥ pūjāṁ śraddhayehate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ



*Prākṛtaḥ stage, so prakṛtaḥ stage means just like we are worshiping The Deity, but not only we shall worship Deity but we make advancement. What is that advancement? To become gradually a preacher. That is madhyama*-adhikārī, second stage, preacher. Preacher means that,



*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpā upekṣāḥ

yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ



*When you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious by worshiping the Deity regularly, as we have got prescription to rise early in the morning, offer maṅgala-ārati, then kīrtana, then class, in this way practicing, practicing. When you become advanced Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your natural tendency will be how to preach. So long you do not develop this tendency for preaching, simply remain in kaniṣṭha*-adhikārī, you do not know how to deliver others, na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, you do not know how to receive elevated, one elevated devotee, you do not know how to do good to others. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is not to keep one in the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, especially those who are born in India. He says



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is principle, para*-upakāra, because everyone is suffering. So in the lower stage, everyone should take part very diligently in the worship of the Deity, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-sṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārj anādau **. One should be engaged, everyone should be engaged, śrī-vigrahārādhanam, with Deity worship. What is that Deity worship? Sri, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra **. To decorate the Deity very, very nicely, śṛṅgāra. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau, and to keep the temple, all through, very clean. This kaniṣṭha-adhikārī should be fully engaged in these things, then he becomes gradually, I mean to say, elevated in the madhyama-adhikārī.



*In the madhyama*-adhikārī he can see four things. What is that? Four things means, first of all the Supreme Lord, īśvara, the controller, he can see. He can see means he understands, he appreciates, he can conceive, "Yes, the Supreme Lord is there". There is no more theoretical. So īśvara, and tad-adhīneṣu, and persons who have become devotee, he can understand, "Here is a devotee." Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu. Bāliśa means he knows imperson. They do not know what is God, what is to be done, they are called bāliśa. Just like children, arbhakaḥ, bāliśa. And then dviṣāt, envious. Just like you have experienced so many rascals, as soon as they hear of God, immediately they become agitated. They are called dviṣāt, envious, demons. So four things, God, His devotees, and the innocent person, and the demonic atheist. He can see, madhyama-adhikārī. And then he behaves with these four classes of men differently. What is that? Prema, for Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, how to increase love. That is first business, prema. And those who are devotees, to make friendship with them maitrī. Those who are higher than him, he should offer very respectful obeisances, those who are equal, treat them with nicely, and those who are lower then instruct them, bāliśeṣu. Those who are innocent, how to raise him in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is preaching. And dviṣatsu, upekṣaḥ, those who are atheist, don't associate with them. Don't associate with them. That is the madhyama-adhikārī.

*And uttama*-adhikārī, that is very rarely attained, this stage. Uttama-adhikārī, has only equal, one vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. The uttama-adhikārī, he does not think that "He is envious," or "he is this," or "he is that," he sees that everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not to be imitated. That Prahlāda Mahārāja is like that. He did not know who is his enemy and who is friend. No, he did not know. He is uttama-adhikārī, mahā-bhāgavata. So this mahā-bhāgavata, this word is very important in this verse, mahā-bhāgavato 'rbhakaḥ. Immediately, as soon as Brahmā requested, "My dear boy, please pacify." No hesitation, immediately he fell down. Upetya bhuvi kāyena. He is always at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and, as a child, immediately as Brahmā said, immediately he did. Kāyena upetya nanāma, as it is, he was not to be lesson, that you meant like this, fall down this, no, he knows, everything. Life after life he is doing that. Gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kori māne. Whenever there is Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as He advented Himself, immediately there was Advaitācārya, Nityānanda, and other, many, many devotees. They are guarāṅgera saṅgi, they are not sādhana-bhakti, they are eternally associate. So similarly Prahlāda Mahārāja is also eternally associate. Whenever there is need, by the order of Kṛṣṇa, he is present there to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. This is our position. Eternal servant.

*We should not become servant to make some material profit. He is not, he is not śuddha*-bhakta. Sa vai vaṇik, Prahlāda Mahārāja. So anyone who serves Kṛṣṇa for some material benefit, sa vai vaṇik. Material benefit means, that śāstra, Kṛṣṇa says that, patraṁ puspaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. So many person comes in the temple for some material benefit. They surrender to the saintly person for some material benefit. "Give me aṣibha (?) benediction." "What benediction?" "I have got ten thousand rupees, make it one lakh by your benediction." So these kind of devotees have been described by Prahlāda Mahārāja as vaṇik, vaṇīya, mercantile. Therefore merchant people, they want to invest two rupees and make, want to make profit ten rupees. So offering Kṛṣṇa little flower and fruit, they want to get some horses and elephant, you see, or very big estate. This is not devotion.

*Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Our position is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's position is eternal master. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the enjoyer. He is the proprietor. That is eternally, He is master, and we are eternally servant. If you keep this position, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So mahā-bhāgavata, they know always, they never forget this position, and those who are fallen souls, conditioned souls, they do not know it, so they have to be raised to that stage. That stage, how? So he is also nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, as soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, he becomes nitya-siddha again. So either you come by sādhana-bhakti or naturally, the, when you come to the ultimate stage, everyone is nitya-siddha. So nitya-siddha, those who come from Vaikuntha, they are never fallen, never forgets Kṛṣṇa, that is nitya-siddha, and by the teachings of nitya-siddha mahā-bhāgavata, if one follows and then becomes by sādhana-siddha, by regulative principle, they also become nitya-siddha later on. And when one becomes nitya-siddha again, there is no difference between this living entity and that living entity, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. So

tatheti śanakai rājan

*mahā*-bhāgavato 'rbhakaḥ

upetya bhuvi kāyena

nanāma vidhṛtāñjaliḥ



*If you simply learn from Prahlāda Mahārāja, simply offer your obeisances, as under the instruction of Brahmā, if you follow the guru, Brahmā is the guru, guru's guru. Prahlāda Mahārāja's guru was Narada and his guru was Brahmā. So our sampradāya is Brahmā, Brahmā sampradāya. There are four sampradāyas. We belong to this Brahmā sampradāya. So sampradāya*-vihīnā ye mantrās te niṣphalā. We have to accept one sampradāya, paramparā, and if we follow, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, exactly under the order of Brahmā and Narada, immediately fell down, so everyone can do it. Here is Kṛṣṇa. So everyone, if he follows mahājana, Brahmā is the first mahājana. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ [SB 6.3.20], Brahmā, his another name is Svayambhū. These are mahājanas. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ [SB 6.3.20], Kapila, Manu, Prahlāda, Prahlāda is also mahājana. Prahlāda, Janaka, Bhīṣma, bali vaiyāsakiḥ vayam. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is mahājana. He is mahā-bhāgavata. Don't think that he is a little boy. That is his pastime to show us how a little boy can become mahā-bhāgavata, how a little boy can be the eternal associate of Kṛṣṇa, and how he can preach. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja.



Thank you very very much. (end)



770218SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.4

-

Māyāpur, February 18, 1977



Pradyumna: (reads synonyms) "Translation: Nārada Muni continued: O King, although the exalted devotee Prahlāda Mahārāja was only a little boy, he accepted Lord Brahmā's words. He gradually proceeded toward Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva and fell down to offer his respectful obeisances with folded hands."



Prabhupāda:



tatheti śanakai rājan

*mahā*-bhāgavato 'rbhakaḥ

upetya bhuvi kāyena

nanāma vidhṛtāñjaliḥ

[SB 7.9.4]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is mahā*-bhāgavata, not ordinary devotee. Arbhakaḥ. Arbhakaḥ means innocent child, five-years-old small boy. But mahā-bhāgavata. Not that because he is boy... Ahaituky apratihatā. A small child can become mahā-bhāgavata, and a very learned scholar may become a demon. Bhakti is so exalted that these are contradictory. Arbhakaḥ, arbha means foolish or childish, but at the same time mahā-bhāgavata. It is possible. Mahā-bhāgavata means... We must distinguish between different types of devotees. Kaniṣṭha adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī and mahā-bhāgavata, uttama adhikārī. Uttama-adhikārī.



*So this Prahlāda Mahārāja is mahā*-bhāgavata, mahā-bhāgavata, not because he is now five years old. No. He was mahā-bhāgavata from the womb of his mother. When his mother was attacked by the demigods arresting and was being dragged by the devatas, Nārada Muni was passing there: "What you are doing?" And "She is the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, and she has got a child in the womb. So we want to kill that child also." Nārada Muni immediately asked them, "No, no, no, no. He's not ordinary child. He's mahā-bhāgavata. So don't touch." So they agreed. Nārada Muni... This is devatā. Although did some mistake, as soon as Nārada Muni ordered them that "Don't try to harm. He is mahā-bhāgavata," immediately gave up. So Nārada Muni said, "My dear daughter, you come with me until your husband comes back." Hiraṇyakaśipu went to perform very severe austerities to defeat the demigods. This is demon's austerities. Hiraṇyakaśipu was engaged in very severe type of austerity. What is the purpose? Some material purpose. But that type of austerity, tapasya, is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. The materialists, they take austerities. Unless they do that, they cannot improve either in the business field or in economic field or in political field. They have to work very, very hard.

Just like in our country the great leader Mahatma Gandhi, he had to work very, very hard. Twenty years in Durban he spoiled his time, and thirty years in India. I shall say spoiled his time. What for? For some political purpose. What is his political purpose? "Now we are a group called by the name Indian. We must drive away the Englishmen and take the supreme authority." This is the purpose. So this is anyābhilāṣitā. What is this purpose? Today you are Indian; *tomorrow you may be something else. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You have to change your body. So what is the next body? Are you going to be again Indian? No guarantee. Even if you have got very much affection for India, all right, according to your karma you'll get body. Even if you get the Indian body of a tree, then you will stand up for five thousand years. What is the benefit? Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He does not say that a human being is going to be again a human being. There is no guarantee. Some rascals they say that once getting this human body, he does not degrade. No. That is not the fact. The fact is that out of 8,400,000's of different species of life, according to your karma you'll get a body. That's all. No guarantee that you have And even if you get Indian body, who cares for you?

So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whatever austerities, penances we perform, it is simply useless waste of time. We should know. Simply waste of time. Because you have to change your body. Everything will be changed. You have come naked; *you have to go naked. You cannot gain. Mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Sarva-haraś ca. Whatever you have acquired, everything will be taken away. Mṛtyu... Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu, whatever he had acquired, Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "In a second, You took away. So why, my Lord, You are offering me this material benediction? What is the value of it? I have seen my father, simply by his eyebrows' twinkling the demigods would be afraid. Such position You have finished in a second. So what is the use of this material position?" So therefore those who are pure devotee, they do not aspire anything material. That is not their...

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



We should always remember that. Don't bring any material desire in executing devotional service. Then it is not pure. Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa deha. As soon as you bring in material desires, then you have wasted your time, because you'll have to get a body. Your desire will be fulfilled. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmi [Bg. 4.11]. If you want to fulfill some desire by bhakti, Kṛṣṇa is very kind: "All right." But you have to take another body. And if you are pure, simply, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. This is wanted, pure devotee.



*Therefore we advise everyone to become a pure devotee. Pure devotee... This is the example, mahā-bhāgavata. This five-years-old boy, he had no business except to satisfy, to become a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So this very qualification, pure devotee, makes one mahā-bhāgavata. But there are stages. The mahā-bhāgavata from the very birth, that is called nitya-siddha. They are eternally siddha, perfect. They come for some purpose. So Prahlāda Mahārāja came for this purpose, that the demons, even he's his father, he would give him so many troubles because one is Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the instruction. Prahlāda Mahārāja wanted to show this by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Hiraṇyakaśipu also came-how to become enemy of Kṛṣṇa*-and Prahlāda Mahārāja came, show, to show how to become a devotee of... This is going on. So mahā-bhāgavata... Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, and mahā-bhāgavata or uttama-adhikārī. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī is in the beginning they have to be taught how to worship the Deity very perfectly. According to the instruction of the śāstra, according instruction of the guru, one must learn how to worship Deity.

arcāyām eva haraye yaḥ

pūjāṁ śraddhāyehate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ



*But one must make advance. This is advancement of devotional service. By simply we remain stuck up in Deity worship, we do not feel for others-na cānyeṣu na tad-bhakta*-you do not know who is devotee, how to worship him, then we remain kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. And madhyama-adhikārī means he must know his position, others' position, devotee's position, God's position, and that is madhyma-adhikārī. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. He'll have four kinds of vision: Bhagavān, īśvara; *tad-adhīneṣu, he's one who has taken shelter of Bhagavān*-that means devotee-īśvare tad-adhīneṣu baliśu, innocent children, just like these children, baliśa, arbhakaḥ; *and dviṣatsu, envious. A madhyama-adhikārī can see these four different persons, and he deals with them differently. What is that? Prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā. Īśvara, to love God, Kṛṣṇa, prema. And maitrī. Maitrī means to make friendship. One who is devotee, we should make friendship with him. We should not be envious. We should make friend. Maitrī. And innocent, just like these children, kṛpa*-to show them mercy, how they'll become devotee, how they'll learn chanting, dancing. Give them food. Give them education. This is called kṛpa. And last, upekṣā. Upekṣā means those who are envious, don't take. Don't associate with them. Upekṣā. "No, let him..."



*But mahā*-bhāgavata, he does not make any upekṣā. He even loves those who are dviṣatsu. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father was very very envious. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja refused to accept any benediction for his personal benefit, but he begged Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva to excuse his father, that "My father has..." He did not ask anything personal... But still, he knew that "Throughout my life my father had played the part of enemy, offended in so... [break] So this is the opportunity. I shall beg Lord to excuse my father." So Kṛṣṇa knew it. His father was already excused. Because he became the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja he already became benedicted. It is not ordinary thing to have such a nice son. So as soon as Prahlāda Mahārāja requested Nṛsiṁhadeva to "Kindly excuse my father," so He immediately said, "Not only your father-his father, his father, his father, everyone is delivered."

So we should take lesson from Prahlāda Mahārāja that if a child becomes a devotee in the family, he is the best child, the best. He is giving the best service to the family. But the rascals, they are taking otherwise, that "My son has become devotee. Bring him back by deprogramming, by kidnapping." People are so rascal. You see? They do not take it a great benefit that "My fortunate son has become a devotee. My whole family will be delivered." But they have no knowledge. They have no brains. Therefore I say it is not brainwashing, it is braingiving. They have no brain. (laughter) So take it very seriously and do nicely.

Thank you very much. (end)



760212SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.5

-

Māyāpur, February 12, 1976



Dayānanda: "Translation: Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, when He saw Prahlāda Mahārāja fallen down at the end of His lotus feet, He became very much ecstatic in affection towards His devotee, and immediately raising him, placed His lotus hand upon the head because His hand is always ready to create fearlessness in all of His devotees."



Prabhupāda:



*sva*-pāda-mūle patitaṁ tam arbhakaṁ

vilokya devaḥ kṛpayā pariplutaḥ

*utthāpya tac*-chīrṣṇy adadhāt karāmbujaṁ

*kālāhi*-vitrasta-dhiyāṁ kṛtābhayam

[SB 7.9.5]



*So kāla, kāla means death. Kṛṣṇa, He is life and death also. Bijo 'ham sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10], from Him all living entities come out or in Him every living entity exists. At the same time, Kṛṣṇa says, mṛtyu ahaṁ sarva-haraś ca, He is death also. So for the non-devotees He is death, and for the devotees He is life. These are the contradictory qualifications of the Supreme Lord. Death and life are two opposite things, viruddha, and Kṛṣṇa is both of them. So He adjusts, viruddha, opposite things coincide into one thing. That is Kṛṣṇa. We cannot adjust opposite things to be one.



*So, sva*-pāda-mule patitaṁ, Lord Brahmā, as soon as asked Prahlāda Mahārāja to pacify the Lord, he immediately fell down at His lotus feet, sva-pāda-mule patitaṁ tam arbhakaṁ. Just like we are sometime extraordinarily happy, pleased when a small child offers his obedience. So naturally, when Prahlāda Mahārāja, a small boy five years old, and he fell down at the lotus feet of the Lord, He became very much pleased. So, not only for Prahlāda Mahārāja, anyone in this material world who offers his obeisances before the Deity, don't think it is useless. It is taken into account. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises, if you cannot do anything, you do four things, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. At least come before Me, just like we do. We come in the temple, and offer our obeisances. It is so easy to go back to home back to Godhead. It is not very difficult task at all. If you cannot do anything, if you cannot read books, if you cannot understand philosophy, if your behavior is not on the standard, still if you simply offer your obeisances before the Deity you make progress. You make progress. Undoubtedly.

*In the Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu you will find it that this worshiping method, come to the temple, offer obeisances, just like these boys, they are playing mṛdaṅgas, they are playing cymbals, dancing, every item is taken into account. Every item. Not that it is going futile. No. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is bhakti-mārga, sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Simply by playing on the cymbal, on the khol, taking little caraṇāmṛta, everything in detail there is in the Nectar of Devotion, you have read. So the foolish person, they do not take care. They think they are very much advanced, they have no need to attend ārati, or to play on the mṛdaṅga or cymbal, but that is not fact. So many items are there given by the ācāryas. If not this, you do this, you do that, you do that, hundreds of items. Take any one of them and you'll be benefited. This is arcana-mārga. There are many foolish person, they make propaganda, "There is no need of going to the temple." That is another rascaldom. Because if you come to the temple, you get so many facilities to make advance in spiritual life. This is our mission. We are opening, spending so much money for opening gorgeous temple. It is not new thing. This is very, very old, coming by paramparā system. There are many thousands of temples in India, very old, five thousand, three thousand years old. Why? The ācāryas wanted to give facility to the common man to enter into spiritual life. That is the idea.

*It is not childish. Rather the so*-called meditation is childish. You cannot, if you do not know what is God, how you can meditate upon Him? Meditation means, dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino. The yogis perform meditation. Why? To concentrate their mind on the Viṣṇu form. You'll find some picture that everyone is depicted with the Viṣṇu form in the core of the heart. That is real yoga. Indriya-samyamaḥ. Real yoga means indriya-samyamaḥ. Our senses are so much disturbed, agitated always. So if you can control your sensory organs to your, employ them in the matter of understanding God, yoga indriya-samyamaḥ.

*Real purpose of yoga is to control the senses. Very, very difficult. Even five thousand years ago when Arjuna was being instructed on the yoga system, concentrating the mind, fixing up the mind on Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, the same thing. So Arjuna said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is very difficult." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham [Bg. 6.34]. It is not possible, for me at least. Yes, those who are busy, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas. Brāhmaṇa may be able. Not nowadays brāhmaṇa, those who are actually brāhmaṇa, because they practice samaḥ, damaḥ, satyam, śaucam, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, brahmacārī. They can do that. But the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas they cannot, because they have not practice samaḥ, damaḥ. But at the present moment in this age, Kali*-yuga, everyone is śūdra, nobody is brāhmaṇa, by the caste system or by birthright. Śudra, kalau śūdra sambhavaḥ. So, in this age, how to concentrate the mind upon Kṛṣṇa. This practice, chanting,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*In Kali*-yuga it is very, very difficult to control the mind, to practice meditation. So there is no use of practicing the so-called meditation. Meditation was possible in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. That is also Viṣṇu, dhyāyataḥ. To meditate upon Lord Viṣṇu. That was possible in the Satya-yuga. It is not possible in the Kali-yuga, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Kali-yuga, this is, even the child, (indistinct). Beginning from the child, a small child, one year old, they are taking part. Practically you can see. They are taking flower, offering. It is imitation, but the effect is there, the same. Either you imitate or you do real, effective. Just like if you touch fire, either knowingly or unknowingly, it will act. It will act. Similarly, sv-alpam apy dharmasya, either this child, the children, they imitate the elderly person offering flower, taking prasādam, offering obeisances, they're as good as their father and mother. This is devotional service.



*Abhaya, abhaya means it doesn't vanquish. There is no expenditure, it is increasing. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. These transcendental activities, transcendental bliss increases, ānanda ambudhi. Ambudhi means ocean. We have seen ocean, but it does not increase, although it is a very big, vast mass of water. Still when you go to the beach for hundreds year(?), it does not increase. Ānandāmbudhi, the material world, not vardhanam, it is fixed up. When we walk on the beach we are confident that although the Pacific Ocean is a great vast mass of water, but we are certain it cannot come up to this. It is limited by the order of God, "You cannot go beyond this." So there is no vardhanam. The temporary ebb tide, and flow tide, that is another thing, but actually aputra māna acala pratiṣṭhā, but in the spiritual world the ocean of transcendental bliss increases. Therefore it is said that ānandāmbudhi vardhanam.

*So these little boys who are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja mahā*-bhāgavata, he is also playing the part of a child, immediately falling down, so these children who are here, even imitation, it will not go in vain. Kṛṣṇa is so kind as it is said here, sva-pāda-mūle-patitaṁ tam arbhakaṁ. Although they are innocent children, but when they're offering obeisances to Rādhā-Mādhava it is of value, "Yes, very good." It is going to their credit. It is not bad. Some may think that these boys are brought here and their life is being spoiled. They are not being educated in the modern way, they're simply chanting, dancing and offering, but that is the real education, tan manye adhitam uttamam, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Śravaṇām kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyām [SB 7.5.23], the devotional service. Tan manye adhītam uttamam, they are being first-class educated, these boys, they, simply by chanting and dance. Don't be disturbed that "My child is not being educated." What is this education? This education, this bodily concept of life, it is not education. That "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am white," "I am black." This education, the whole world this education is going on, nationalism. In the name of nationalism, communism, socialism. They are all bodily concept of life. That is not education. That education is useless, because this kind of education will not stop the process of birth, death, old age and disease. They may be technical education, temporary, some bodily comfort, but this is not taken as education.

*Real education is brahma*-jijñāsā, athāto brahma jijñāsā, that is real education. What I am, that is brahma-jijñāsa. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, when he comes to the conclusion that he is not this body, he is spirit soul, that is real education. So the bhakti-mārga is so nice that they are simply staying on the Brahman platform, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Who? Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate [Bg. 14.26]. So our program, this program, anyone who may come here, he is educated how to understand brahma-bhūyāya. That is education. This is not education, the technical education. Nowadays they are very much fond of technical education. That is temporary. That is not education. Electrician comes, suppose the power has failed, and he manipulates and brings the power, that is technical education, but real education is different. That is to understand the ātma-tattvam. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2]. Those who are fully absorbed in family life, gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām, they are apaśyatām ātma-tattvam, they cannot see what is real life, what is the goal of life. So here we see Prahlāda Mahārāja fell down immediately. That is real education, Brahmā asked him, "You just try to pacify," immediately he fell down. And Kṛṣṇa immediately became compassionate, sva-pāda-mūle patitaṁ tam arbhakaṁ vilokya.

*The Māyāvādī, they say God has no eyes, but here it is said vilokya. How you can say without eyes? He can see, but His seeing is different, paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He has no eyes like us. What is our, what is the value of our eyes? As soon as there is no light, you cannot see. But Kṛṣṇa can see always, either there is light or not. That is the difference. Therefore when in the Vedas it is said that He has no eyes, means He has no this material eyes which is limited. So here it is said vilokya. Just like we are offering obeisances, the children are offering obeisances to the Lord. Don't think that here is Deity made of metal, how he can see? No. This is rascaldom. He can see. That is His eyes. Either you present Him in material element, or in any way, He can see in all circumstances. Therefore it is called... Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said tad aham aśnāmi, I eat. What it that? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. I eat. The rascals they cannot see how Kṛṣṇa is eating what is offered to Him, but He says "Yes, I eat." So what is that eating? But you have, you have got so imperfect eyes, you cannot see how the Lord is eating, but He is eating. These things are clearly, here it is specifically mentioned, vilokya devaḥ kṛpayā pariplutaḥ, ecstatic, "Oh, how he is nice this boy."

*So in this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Lord, devaḥ, how He is working, transcendentally. That is paśyaty acakṣaḥ, acakṣuḥ, śṛṇoti, akarṇaḥ. His hearing, His seeing, His eating is different from us. Therefore it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. If we offer at His lotus feet something, He eats. He can eat with His leg. Therefore how His eating process can be equal to us? Therefore there are two contradictions, paśyati, acakṣuḥ. Śṛnoti, akarṇaḥ. This is to be understood. Not that He is impersonal. His personality is different from our personality. We cannot eat witl our leg, but Kṛṣṇa can eat with, by His leg. He can see by His leg, He can hear by His finger. This is called aṅgani yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. He is perfect. In this way you have to understand Kṛṣṇa. So, as soon as we come in touch with Kṛṣṇa by devotional service, then we become abhayam, no more fear. As soon as we are in the material world, bhayam. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Abhaya. Bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana abhaya-caraṇāravinda re, abhaya. His name is Abhaya. So if you come in touch with Kṛṣṇa by devotional service, and there is no more fear. Everyone is afraid. But, who is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. (end)



770225SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.5

-

Māyāpur, February 25, 1977



Pradyumna: "Translation: When Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva saw the small boy Prahlāda Mahārāja prostrated at the soles of His lotus feet, He became most ecstatic in affection toward His devotee. Raising Prahlāda, the Lord placed His lotus hand upon the boy's head because His hand is always ready to create fearlessness in all of His devotees."



Prabhupāda:



*sva*-pāda-mūle patitaṁ tam arbhakaṁ

vilokya devaḥ kṛpayā pariplutaḥ

*utthāpya tac*-chīrṣṇy adadhāt karāmbujaṁ

*kālāhi*-vitrasta-dhiyāṁ kṛtābhayam

[SB 7.9.5]



*So to become devotee or favorite to the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very easy. It is not at all difficult. Here we see the example, Prahlāda Mahārāja, a five year old boy... [break] He's a devotee. He only knows the Supreme Lord, and he offered obeisances. That is his qualification. Anyone can do that. Anyone can come here in the temple and offer obeisances. Where is the difficulty? Simply one must have the sense that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa or Nṛsiṁhadeva or any one of His multi*-expansions."



*In the śāstra it is said, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Kṛṣṇa has ananta-rūpam. Therefore every rupa is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's original rūpa. The original rūpa is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Then there are so many rūpas: Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, Balarāma, Paraśurāma, Mīna, Tortoise, Nṛsiṁhadeva. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. He's always existing with different forms, not that he is existing only in Kṛṣṇa form. Every form... Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. The same example, as we have given many times: just like the sun, time of sun, twenty-four hours, so out of the twenty-four hours or twenty-four incarnations, any time is present. It is not that now it is, say, eight o'clock. Then seven o'clock is finished. No. There is seven o'clock in any other part of the world. Or nine o'clock. Nine o'clock is also present. Twelve o'clock is also present. We have got one watch given by Gurukṛpa Mahārāja. (laughter) He has brought from Japan. It is very nice. Immediately you can see what is the time now in different places, immediately. So all of them are existing. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's līlā is called nitya-līlā, not that one līlā is going on, other līlā is finished, no. Everything is existing simultaneous. Therefore this word is used, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣ... Niyamena. Exactly in due time... Just like the sun, exactly. Formerly there was no watch, but by the shadow one could study. You can study now also. Even now. In our childhood we used to study by seeing the shadow. "Now it is this time"*-and exactly the same time. So kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan, not that haphazardly-now this shadow is one o'clock here, and next day, one o'clock there, no. The same place, you'll find. Kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan.

*Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's līlā, niyamena tiṣṭhan-exactly. There are innumerable universes. Here Kṛṣṇa is born. Now Kṛṣṇa is taken by Vasudeva to Vṛndāvana. Same thing-immediately here born, Kṛṣṇa has gone to Vṛndāvana*-in another universe Kṛṣṇa is born. Kṛṣṇa is born again. In this way His līlā is going on. There is no cessation, neither there is any discrepancy of time. Exactly. Just like Kṛṣṇa comes upon this earth once in Brahmā's day. So so many millions of years, Kṛṣṇa will appear again, if not personally, by His expansion, aṁśena. Caitanya Mahāprabhu will appear exactly in due course of time. Lord Rāmacandra will appear. So rāmādi mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. So this līlā, Nṛsiṁhadeva, that is also exactly in time.

*So sva*-pāda-mūle patitaṁ tam arbhakam. Very innocent child. If an innocent child like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he can get so much mercy of Nṛsiṁhadeva, so pierceful appearance of the Lord that even Lakṣmī could not approach... Aśruta. Adṛṣṭa aśruta pūrva. There was no such form of the Lord. Even Lakṣmī did not know. But Prahlāda Mahārāja, he's not afraid. He knows, "Here is my Lord." Just like the cub of a lion, he is not afraid of the lion. He immediately jumps to the head of the lion because he knows, "It is my father. It is my mother." Similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja is not afraid, although Brahmā and others, all demigods, became afraid to approach the Lord. He simply as an innocent child came and offered his obeisances. Tam arbhakaṁ vilokya. So, so God is not impersonal. Immediately he could understand, "Oh, here is an innocent child. He has been harassed by his father so much and now he's offering his obeisances unto me." Vilokya devaḥ kṛpayā pariplutaḥ. He became very much, I mean to say, melted with mercy. So thing, everything is there. Don't think that God has no feeling, thinking, feeling. No. Everything is there. Unless He has got sympathetic feeling in Him, where we have got it? Because everything is coming from God. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1].

*Athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is Brahman? Brahman means the original source of everything. That is Brahman. Bṛhatvāt bṛhanatvāt. So if this feeling is not there in God, then how He can be God, this feeling? Just like if one innocent little child comes and offers some respect to us, immediately we become feelingly merciful: "Oh, here is a nice child." So Lord Kṛṣṇa, Nṛsiṁhadeva, He also became pariplutaḥ, feelingly merciful, not ordinary merciful, feeling that "How innocent this child is." So feelingly, utthapya: immediately got him up. "My dear child, get up." And immediately put his hand on the head. Utthāpya tac*-chīrṣṇy adadhāt karāmbujam. Karāmbhuja, lotus hand, lotus palm. So these feelings are there. And He wanted... Because this boy was bewildered that such a big mūrti came from the thumbs(?), the columns and the father, gigantic father, is dead, naturally he is little disturbed in mind. So therefore vitrasta-dhiyāṁ kṛtābhayam: "My dear child, don't be afraid. Everything is all right. I am present and there is no fear. Be pacified. I will give you protection." So this is the exchange. So there is no need of very, becoming very learned man, Vedantist and... Simply these things are required: you become innocent, accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and fall down at His lotus feet. Everything is complete. This is wanted, simplicity. Simplicity. Believe in Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañ... [Bg. 7.7], believe it! There is no more superior authority than Kṛṣṇa.

*And He says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is the instruction. This is the substance of all instruction. Believe Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality. Here is Kṛṣṇa. Believe that there is Kṛṣṇa. Innocent child will believe, but our brain is so dull, we will inquire, "Whether the Deity is made of stone or brass or wood," because we are not innocent. We are thinking that this Deity is something made of brass. Even it is brass, a brass is not God? Brass is also God. Because Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir..., apareyam..., bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. Everything is Kṛṣṇa. Without Kṛṣṇa there is no existence. So why Kṛṣṇa cannot appear as He likes? He can appear in brass. He can appear in stone. He can appear in wood. He can appear in jewel. He can appear in painting. Any way He can... That is all-powerful. But we have to take it that "Here is Kṛṣṇa." Don't take it that "Kṛṣṇa is separate from this Deity, and here we have got a brass form Deity." No. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Advaita. He has multi-expansion, but they're all one.

*So similarly, He is represented in His name. Abhinnatvān nāma*-nāminoḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. When you are chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa don't think this is sound vibration and Kṛṣṇa is different. No. Abhinnatvān. Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaḥ. As Kṛṣṇa is cintāmaṇi, similarly, His holy name is also cintāmaṇi. Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaḥ caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. Caitanya, full consciousness, nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaḥ. If we associate with name, that you must know, that Kṛṣṇa is fully conscious of your service. You are addressing, "He Kṛṣṇa! He Rādhārāṇī! Kindly engage me in Your service." Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means, Hare Kṛṣṇa, "He Kṛṣṇa, he Rādhārāṇī, he energy, kindly engage me in your service." Ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. "O my Lord, Nanda-tanuja..." Kṛṣṇa becomes very glad when you associate His name, His activities, with some devotee. He's not impersonal. Kṛṣṇa has no name, but when He deals with His devotee, there is a name. Just like Kṛṣṇa dealing with Nanda Mahārāja, that Nanda Mahārāja's wooden slipper... Yaśodāmayī asked the child Kṛṣṇa You have seen the picture-"Can you bring the slipper of your father?" "Yes!" Immediately took on the head. You see? This is Kṛṣṇa. So Nanda Mahārāja became very pleased: "Oh, your son is very nice. He can bear such a load." So this is dealing.

*Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is addressing Kṛṣṇa, ayi nanda*-tanuja. "O Kṛṣṇa, who is born out of the body of Nanda Mahārāja..." Just like the father is the body-giving person, seed, seed-giving father, similarly, Kṛṣṇa, although He is the origin of everything, but still, He is born by the seed of Nanda Mahārāja. This is Kṛṣṇa-līlā. Ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavām-budhau. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never addressed Kṛṣṇa, "O the almighty." This is impersonal. He says, ayi nanda-tanuja, limited, "son of Nanda Mahārāja." Son of Nanda Mahārāja. So this is bhakti. He's unlimited. Just like Kuntīdevī was surprised that, when (s)he thought that Kṛṣṇa was afraid of Yaśodāmayī. That śloka you know. So he was, she was surprised that "Kṛṣṇa who is so exalted and great that everyone is afraid of Him, but He has become afraid of Yaśodāmayī."

*So this can be enjoyed by the devotees, not the... Atheist class of men or non*-devotees cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Only the devotees, no others. Others, they have no admission in this kingdom, to understand. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa it is only through bhakti. Neither knowledge nor yoga nor karma nor jñāna, nothing-nothing will help you. Simply a devotee. And how to become devotee? How easy it is? See here the Prahlāda Mahārāja, innocent child, simply offering his obeisances. And Kṛṣṇa is also asking you, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. If you sincerely do these four items-always think of Kṛṣṇa... Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, (devotees chant) Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. So this is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And you can stick to this principle of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra if you are unalloyed devotee. Without being unalloyed devotee it is very difficult. It will be tiresome. But we shall practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena [Bg. 8.8].

*Immediately we cannot be first*-class devotee. We cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. That is not possible. But minimum. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. We have to practice. Certain numerical strength we must maintain. And we have made it, therefore... Some of our so-called devotees, they criticize me that I have limited only sixteen rounds. No, why sixteen rounds? You can make three hundred rounds, but minimum, minimum sixteen rounds, because we are not accustomed to devote much time. We must be busy always. But to sit down in one place and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra continuously, that is not possible for any conditioned soul-unless he is liberated. So don't try to imitate. My Guru Mahārāja has strictly forbidden, "Don't try to imitate big personalities like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, Rūpa Gosvāmī." He used to say, rūpa gosvāmī ke mogha vāñchā (?). Rūpa Gosvāmī, because he used to put on a loin cloth... Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthā... So it is no use imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī, to imitate the dress, and then, as soon as there is opportunity, smoke bidi. (laughter) Don't do this nonsense. This is no use, imitation. Anusaraṇa, not anukāraṇa. Anukāraṇa is dangerous. Anusaraṇa. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. This is bhakti. We shall try to follow the footsteps of big, big devotees, sādhus. We cannot... We shall try to follow. Don't try to imitate. That is very dangerous.

*Some of our devotees, they left, that "There is no bhajana here," (laughter) and asking me my blessing to find out another guru. So he wants my blessing for find out a guru. So this rascaldom is no good. So best thing is that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Here is mahājana. Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the mahājanas. Out of the twelve mahājanas, Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the mahājanas. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilo manuḥ prahlādaḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Prahlāda Mahārāja name is there. Janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakir vayam. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is mahājana. So follow, try to follow, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Anusaraṇa. Sādhu*-mārgānugamanam. So what Prahlāda Mahārāja did? He was put into so many troubles by his father, and what did he do? He was simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, "What can I do? My father is against." That is man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. And at last, when the father is killed, he is offering obeisances. So these four things, follow in the footsteps sincerely, as an unalloyed devotee. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Prahlāda Mahārāja never thou ght that "I am son of Hiraṇyakaśipu." Never thought. He always used to think, "I am the servant of Nārada." That he said. When He wanted to give him benediction, so he asked Nṛsiṁhadeva, "Kindly engage me in the service of Your servant, Nārada, by whom I have got this instruction." He never said, "Let me serve my father." No. Because he got instruction, he always... Cakṣudana dilo janme janme pitā sei. He is father. No other father. Cakṣudana dilo yei, janme janme pitā sei. What is the next line?

Devotees: Divya jñāna hṛde prakāśito.



*Prabhupāda: Ah, divya jñāna hṛde prakāśito. So he is the father. So we should always bear in mind. Don't be upstart and leave this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement whimsically... (break*-end)





770226SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.6

-

Māyāpur, February 26, 1977



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



*Prabhupāda: You can derive (divide?) the syllables. Sa tat*-kara-sparśa-dhuta-akhila-aśubhaḥ. You cannot pronounce combinedly, just divide. Sa tat-kara-sparśa-dhuta-akhila-aśubhaḥ, like that. Anyway, chant. (Pradyumna chants again, devotees chant slowly) There is no board writing. Why? So many men could not write the board? They cannot see. Go on. (devotees attempt to chant) That's all right. Difficult.



Pradyumna: "Translation: By the touch of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva's hand on Prahlāda Mahārāja's head, Prahlāda was completely freed of all material contaminations and desires, as if he had been thoroughly cleansed. Therefore he at once became transcendentally situated, and all the symptoms of ecstasy became manifest in his body. His heart filled with love, and his eyes with tears, and thus he was able to completely capture the lotus feet of the Lord within the core of his heart."



Prabhupāda:



*sa tat*-kara-sparśa-dhutākhilāśubhaḥ

*sapady abhivyakta*-parātma-darśanaḥ

*tat*-pāda-padmaṁ hṛdi nivṛto dadhau

*hṛṣyat*-tanuḥ klinna-hṛd-aśru-locanaḥ

[SB 7.9.6]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, tat*-kara-sparśa, "touch of the lotus palm of Nṛsiṁhadeva," the same palm where there is nail. Tava kara kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-sṛṅgam. The same palm with nakha adbhuta... Dalita-hiraṇyakaśipu-tanu-bhṛṅgam. Immediately, with the nails only... The Lord did not require any weapon to kill this gigantic demon, simply nails. Tava kara-kamala. The example is very nice, kamala. Kamala means lotus. The Lord's palm is just like lotus flower. Therefore in the lotus flower it is very soft, very pleasing, and how the nails came? Therefore adbhuta. Tava kara-kamala, adbhuta. Nakham adbhuta-sṛṅgam. It is not possible to grow some ferocious nails, piercing nails, in the lotus flower. This is contradictory. Therefore Jayadeva says, adbhuta: "It is wonderful. It is astonishing." This... Therefore Lord's power, exhibition of power and sharp nails, they're all inconceivable. Śrīla Jīva Goswami has explained, "Unless you accept inconceivable power of the Supreme Lord, there is no understanding." Acintya. Acintya-śakti. Acintya means inconceivable. You cannot speculate how it is happening, how in the lotus flower there is so hard nail that immediately, within a second, it could kill a great demon like Hiranyakasipu. Therefore it is acintya. We cannot conceive. Acintya. And therefore Vedic instruction is acintyā khalu ye bhāvā na taṁś tarkeṇa yo jayet: "Do not apply your poor logic in the matters which is inconceivable by you." There is no logic that how lotus flower can grow nails. They say, "Mythology." Because they cannot conceive within their poor brain, they cannot accommodate how things happen like that, they say, "Mythology." Not mythology. It is fact, but it is inconceivable by you or us. It is not possible.



*So that, the same kara kamala, was put on the head of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlādāhlāda*-dāyine. Prahlāda Mahārāja was feeling, "Oh, how blissful this hand." Not only feeling, but immediately all his material unhappiness, pangs, disappeared. This is the process of transcendental touch. We can have the same facility in this age. It is not that Prahlāda Mahārāja became immediately jubilant by the touch of the lotus palm of the Lord. You can have the same benefit immediately if we become like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Then it is possible. Kṛṣṇa is advaya-jñāna, so in this age Kṛṣṇa has descended in His sound vibration form: kali yuga nama rūpe kṛṣṇāvatāra. This age... Because these fallen men in this age, they are... They have no qualification. Mandāḥ. Everyone is bad. Nobody is qualified. They have no spiritual knowledge. Don't mind. In your Western country they are very much puffed up with material knowledge, but they have no spiritual knowledge. Perhaps in the history, for the first time in the history, they're getting some information of spiritual knowledge.

Devotees: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: Otherwise there was no spiritual knowledge. They do not know. That's a fact.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca

bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



*These materialistic persons, scientists, physicists and other speculator, they're dealing with these elements, material*-earth, water, fire, air, ether, up to mind, psychology, or, little advanced, intelligence, but no more. They are dealing in their university, colleges, educational institution. They are concerned with these elements, material. They have no spiritual knowledge. Kṛṣṇa said... We get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam: "These eight elements, they are inferior." Therefore, because they are dealing with this inferior nature only, their knowledge is inferior. This is a fact. It is not that I am accusing. No. This is the... They have no information. Big, big professor, they say that this body finished... "Body finished" means pañcatva (?) prāpta. They do not know that there is another body, subtle body-mind, intelligence, ego. They do not know. They are thinking this earth, water, air, fire, ether, that much..., "This is finished, I see, either you burn the body or bury the body, finished, everything finished. And where is other thing?" So they have no knowledge. So they have no knowledge even of the subtle body, earth, water, which carries the soul, and what they'll know about the soul?



*So Kṛṣṇa gives information in the Bhagavad*-gītā, apareyam: "These elements, even up to mind, intelligence, ego, bhinnā, they are My separated energy, separated energy. And," apareyam, "this is inferior. And there is another, superior nature." Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā. Parā means superior. Now, they may be asking, "What is that? We know these elements only. What is that another superior energy?" Jīva bhūtaḥ mahā-bāho, clearly said: "That is living..." And they are thinking that there is no other superior energy except these eight material elements or five elements. Therefore they are in ignorance. It is for the first time they are getting some knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and from that they can know that there is another, superior energy who is jīva-bhūtaḥ. The living entity which is moving the body, that is superior energy. So they have no information, neither there is an attempt to understand that superior energy in their universities or institution. Therefore they are mūḍha, mūḍhas. They may be very much puffed up of their so-called knowledge, but according to Vedic knowledge they are mūḍhas. And if one cannot understand the superior energy, prakṛti, nature, then how one can understand God? That is not possible. Then again, dealings between God and the superior energy, that is bhakti. It is very difficult. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. That siddhaye means to understand that superior energy. That is siddhi. And after that, one can understand Kṛṣṇa.

*So it is very difficult, especially in this age. Mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. They are... Mandāḥ means they are not interested, or even they are little interested, they are very slow. They do not understand this is the prime knowledge. And first of all you must know it, athāto brahma jijñāsā, that superior knowledge. That is required. But everyone is neglecting. There is no inquisitiveness even what is that thing which is moving this body. There is no inquiry. They think automatically, by combination of this matter... They are still persisting on this point, and when you challenge, "You take this chemical and prepare the living force," they'll say, "That I cannot do." And what is this? If you cannot do, then why you are speaking like nonsense, that "The combination of matter or chemicals gives the life"? You take the chemicals. Our Doctor Svarūpa Dāmodara in the California University... One big professor came to lecture on chemical evolution, and he challenged immediately, that "If I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say." So this is their position. They cannot prove it. They cannot do it. Science means not only observation but experiment also. That is complete. Otherwise theory. It is not science. So they have got different theories. That anyone can put forward. That is not But real fact is that Kṛṣṇa is spiritual and He's the Supreme. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This is the Vedic injunction. God is the supreme nitya, eternal, and the Supreme Living Being. In the dictionary also it is said, "God means the Supreme Being." They could not understand Supreme Living Being. But in the Vedas it is said not only Supreme Being, but Supreme Living Being. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is the description of God.

*So it is very difficult to understand even the spiritual substance, and what to speak of God. The beginning of spiritual knowledge is to understand first of all what is spirit. And they are taking the intelligence or mind as spirit. But that is not spirit. Beyond that... Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtim parā [Bg. 7.5]. So this perfection, as Prahlāda Mahārāja had immediately by touching the Supreme Personality of..., we can also have. There is possibility, and very easily, because we are fallen, mandāḥ, very slow, very bad. Mandāḥ and sumanda-matayo. And because we are bad, everyone has manufactured a theory. Sumanda. Mata. Mata means opinion. And what is that opinion? Not only mandā but sumanda, very, very bad. Sumanda-matayo. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ [SB 1.1.10], and all unfortunate or misfortunate. Why? When there is knowledge, they'll not take. They will theorize. They're unfortunate. Ready knowledge, but they will theorize, "It is like this. It is like that. It is like that. Perhaps... Maybe..." This is going on. Therefore manda-bhāgyāh. Just like here is money. One will not take that money. He'll work hard like hogs and dog to earn money. So that means unfortunate. So mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ. And because manda-bhāgyāḥ, there is upadrutaḥ, always disturbance*-this war, that war, that war. Beginning, whole history, simply war. Why war? Why there is fight? There should not be any fight because everything is complete. Pūrṇam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. The world is full by the mercy of the Supreme Lord. Because it is the kingdom... This is also kingdom of God. But we have made it hell by unnecessarily fighting. That's all. Otherwise it is... For a devotee-pūrṇam. Viśvaṁ pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate. Why there should be fight? God has supplied everything. You want water? Three-fourths of the earth is full of water. But that water is salt. God has process how to make it sweet. You cannot do this. Water you want. There is sufficient water. Why there should be scarcity? Now we heard in Europe they were contemplating importing water. Was not that? Yes. In England they were thinking of importing. Is that possible? But these rascal scientists think like that. They'll import. Why not? The England is surrounded by water. Why don't you take water? No. Nire kari bas na me tilo piyas. "I'm living in water, but I'm dying of thirst." (laughter) These rascals' philosophy... Or in... I think in our childhood we read one book, a Moral Class book, said there was a story that shipwrecked, and they took the shelter of one boat, but some of them died of thirst because they could not drink water. So in the water they were living, but they died of thirst.

*So our position is like that. Everything is full. Still, we are dying and fighting. What is the reason? The reason is that we do not follow Kṛṣṇa. This is the reason: absence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that the whole world is full of everything. Only scarcity is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Only scarcity. Otherwise there is no scarcity. Everything is full. And if you take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa you will be happy immediately. You can make the whole world happy. This instruction of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā, so perfect... It must be perfect because it is coming from Kṛṣṇa. It is not the so-called scientist theory. No. Perfect instruction. And if we follow the instruction, if we practically utilize, then whole world... Viśvaṁ pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate.

*So as Nṛsiṁhadeva touched the head of Prahlāda Mahārāja, immediately you can have that same facility. "What is that facility? How? Nṛsiṁhadeva is not here. Kṛṣṇa is not here." No. He is here. "What is that?" Nama rūpe kali kale kṛṣṇa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa is present by his name, Kṛṣṇa. Don't think this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, this name, is different from Kṛṣṇa. Absolute. Kṛṣṇa, the Deity Kṛṣṇa, the name Kṛṣṇa, the person Kṛṣṇa*-everything, the same Absolute Truth. There is no differentiation. So in this age simply by chanting Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa... Nama-cintāmaṇi kṛṣṇaḥ caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ, pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-muktaḥ. Don't think the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is different from Kṛṣṇa. It is pūrṇam. Pūrṇaḥ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. Everything pūrṇa. Pūrṇa means complete. We have tried to explain this completeness in our Īśopaniṣad. You have read. So stick to the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. You'll get the same benefit as Prahlāda Mahārāja got by direct touch of the lotus palm of Nṛsiṁhadeva. There is no difference. Always think like that, that as soon as you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you must know that you are touching Kṛṣṇa with your tongue. Then you get the same benefit as Prahlāda Mahārāja.

Thank you very much. (end)



760214SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.7

-

Māyāpur, February 14, 1976



Dayānanda: (chants verse, etc.) "Translation: Prahlāda Mahārāja thus fixed up in his mind with full attention, the mind and sight, everything was placed in complete trance. Thus, on account of love, he began to offer his prayer in faltering voice."



Prabhupāda:



astauṣīd dharim ekāgra-

manasā susamāhitaḥ

*prema*-gadgadayā vācā

*tan*-nyasta-hṛdayekṣanaḥ

[SB 7.9.7]



*So, this is gradual progress of spiritual mind, and this state is called prema, prema*-gadgadayā. So, we have to make progress as it is exemplified by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Ādau gurv-āśrayam sad-dharma-pṛcchā sādhu-mārga-anugamanam. (aside:) Stop that. The first business is ādau, in the beginning, gurv-āśrayam. Gurv-āśrayam means to take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master, ādau gurv-āśrayam, and this takes place when there is śraddhā. Just like in this meeting, persons who have got little faith, they can sit down and hear. This is called śraddhā. And the higher stage of śraddhā is to completely accept the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that is highest state of śraddhā. In the lower stage, little faith, "So here is something going on about Kṛṣṇa, let us sit down and hear it." This is kaniṣṭha-śraddhā, and this śraddhā, faith, has to be increased. That ultimately, in the mature stage of śraddhā, faith, that is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta,



śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa (kahe) sudṛḍha niścaya

*kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya

[Cc. Madhya 22.62]



This is śraddhā. Śraddha-śabde, this śraddhā, faith, means sudṛḍha niścaya, śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa. Kṛṣṇa says



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



This is called faith. Yes, Kṛṣṇa says that simply by surrendering at His lotus feet one becomes immediately a liberated person. Kṛṣṇa says that.



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



*Just like if I offer you that if you do this work, I shall give you immediately fifty thousand rupees. So, who will believe me? "This man is a beggar, sannyāsī, how he'll give fifty thousand rupees?" So there is no śraddhā. But we cannot do so with reference to Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66], that is a fact. That is not a bogus promise, because Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all-powerful. Whatever He likes, He can do. This is called faith.



*So after reading Bhagavad*-gītā, if one does not get this faith in Kṛṣṇa, then it is useless waste of time. There are many so-called scholars, politicians, they declare that "I read Bhagavad-gītā daily, three times," but the result is no faith in Kṛṣṇa. This is called useless waste of time. If you do not get the faith which is required by studying Bhagavad... Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD reading for understanding God. That is ABC. So if you do not understand even the ABCD, how he'll advance in higher studies? That is not possible. So, even we cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā, the ABCD, Kṛṣṇa says one thing and they make, I mean to say, interpretation in a different way. Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2], mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. They do not believe it. Śrama eva hi kevalam, to such persons the Bhāgavata says,

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*You, you are very religious, performing the ritualistic ceremony very nicely, going to the Ganges and taking your bath, and dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ. Very rightly you are executing your religious principle and coming at home, you are reading Bhagavad*-gītā, but you have no faith in Kṛṣṇa. That is useless time, useless waste of time. The Bhāgavata, (says) śrama eva hi kevalam. So this, why this happens? Because these people do not approach the right person, guru. Ādau gurv-āśrayam.



*Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was visited by many learned brāhmaṇas when He was at Purī, Jagannātha Purī. So one learned brāhmaṇa, he wrote some poems about Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There were many brāhmaṇas, they were coming, but all such reading matter, first it was to be tested by His secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara. If Svarūpa Dāmodara would pass, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will hear. Otherwise why should He waste His time (with) some hodge*-podge writing? So one brāhmaṇa, he wrote something about Caitanya Mahāprabhu and came to read, recite before Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Svarūpa Dāmodara found many mistakes in that poem, so he did not allow him, that "You do not know how to present theistic literature. You don't. You cannot see Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He chastised him about the mistake. So to write theistic literature is not to be done by any ordinary man. It is not to, because they, they do not know. So we should not read any literature which is not presented by a bona fide Vaiṣṇava. It has been forbidden by Sanātana Goswāmī.

*avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ

*pūtaṁ hari*-kathāmṛtaṁ

śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam...



He said. Sanātana Goswāmī is our guide, ācārya. He is warning you that "If a person is not Vaiṣṇava, don't hear anything nonsense from him." That is the injunction. Don't hear. This is very rigidly to be followed.



*avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ

*pūtaṁ hari*-kathāmṛtaṁ

śravaṇaṁ na(iva) kartavyaṁ

sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payaḥ yathā



*One can argue, "No, we can hear hari*-kathā from any person, he may be Vaiṣṇava or not Vaiṣṇava. What is the matter?" But Sanātana Goswāmī, "No." So, why it is no? Because it is like sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payaḥ yathā. Milk is very good, nice food, everyone knows, but if the milk is touched by the lips of a snake, it is not to be touched. It is not to be touched. It has become poison. Very good example. Similarly, if we do not hear from the right person, any Vedic literature, especially Bhagavad-gītā because that is the beginning, the sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payaḥ yathā. He may be very big scholar, but because he is avaiṣṇava, not devotee, it has become poison. In our country, we have got so many editions, not only in country, in all, outside the country also. In your country. There are so many hodge-podge interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, and they are being read and being used for the last two hundred years ago, but there was no effective result. It could not act. But as soon as this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we have presented and you are reading, so many thousands of thousands, they are becoming devotee.



So therefore, this process Prahlāda Mahārāja is demonstrating by his personal behavior because he is mahājana. He is mahājana. Out of the twelve mahājanas. The śāstra says, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], one has to follow the mahājana, authorized person. Mahājana means authorized person. Ordinary jana, common man, and mahājana means authorized person. We cannot take lesson, instruction from unauthorized person. This authorization must come through the disciplic succession. If the spiritual master, authorized spiritual master says, "You do this," that we have to do. That we are singing daily,

*guru*-mukha-padma-vākya cittete koriyā-aikya

āra nā koriho mane āśā **



This is the process. This is the process. And if I think that I am more intelligent than my guru... First of all guru must be bona fide, not a bogus guru. The guru, as specified by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that is not very difficult, who is guru? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,



*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*He is guru. One who is strictly following the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and after following Him, he is just delivering the instruction as Kṛṣṇa has said, then you become guru. It is not difficult. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has ordered everyone. Therefore our process is to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and then try to understand Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Just like here in our temple. First of all there is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Through His mercy we are trying to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. You cannot understand Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa directly. That is not possible. That will be like that sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payaḥ yathā, milk touched by the lips of a snake. There are so many Bhāgavata reciters in India. They jump over to the rasa-līlā without understanding Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, you know?



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhabo se jugala*-pīriti



*Don't try to understand jugala-pīriti, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's love, abruptly. It is foolishness. You will misunderstand. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he said, rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti. Rūpa, beginning from Rūpa Gosvāmī up to Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, six gosvāmīs, Śrī-Rūpa, Sanātana, Bhaṭṭa-Raghunātha, Śrī-Jīva, Gopāla-bhatta, Dāsa-Raghunātha, six gosvāmīs. So, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, rūpa-raghunātha, beginning from Rūpa to Raghunātha dāsa. Rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti kabe hāma bujhabo, don't try to understand Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa love without going through the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, (indistinct) Gosvāmī, like, that is the instruction.



*So we see practically how Prahlāda Mahārāja immediately attained the state of prema. Here it is said, prema*-gadgadayā vaca. Prema, that prema is not this prema. The lusty desire, that is not prema. Prema, one has to learn, one has to go through the disciplic or discipline to attain the state of prema. As Prahlāda Mahārāja, so he first of all followed the instruction of Brahmā, then immediately he got the favor of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, and after getting that he got the prema state. You cannot go immediately to the prema state. That is also rūpa-raghunātha-pade. Rūpa-raghunātha, Rūpa Goswāmī has said (indistinct),

ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-

*saṅgaḥ atha bhajana*-kriyā

*tato anartha*-nivṛttiḥ syāt

tato niṣṭhā tataḥ ruciḥ

athāsaktis tato bhāvas

sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ

prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]



*These are the kramaḥ. You cannot get prema state artificially, crying, falling down and then smoking bidi, this is not prema. Prema you have to learn by the kramaḥ pantha. That kramaḥ pantha is the same, ādau śraddhā. Ādau śraddhā. Śraddha means faith. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa says that, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66], it is right." This is faith, this is beginning of faith. Now to keep the faith or to increase the faith, you have to live with faithful servants of Kṛṣṇa.



*With our, this institution, the center is meant for giving a chance to the common people to get association of devotee. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅgaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Sādhu means those who are well-behaved in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not upstarts. They are called sādhu. So, those who are living in this temple, they must be strictly very well behaved, so that whoever may come out of śraddhā, if he sits down for some time and sees your behavior, then he'll be influenced. And if you become third-class, then how sādhu-saṅgaḥ will be effective? No. You must strictly follow the regulative principles as given to you by your spiritual master, śāstra. You must follow. Then people will come in contact with you, they will be benefited. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15], and if he regularly makes sādhu-saṅgaḥ, then the effect will be he will try to become a sādhu. That is initiation. Initiation means the beginning of becoming a sādhu, not that after initiation immediately he becomes a sādhu. If he follows, just like we instruct that you chant at least sixteen rounds, you have no illicit sex, you cannot take any meat, fish, eggs, or you cannot have any intoxication up to drinking tea and smoking, and we say no gambling. This is the process of becoming a sādhu. So ādau śraddhā. This is called bhajana-kriyā.

*Then anartha*-nivṛttiḥ. Anartha, these are anartha. There is no need of smoking. It is useless, but we have practiced it. Therefore they are anartha. But if you follow the devotional process, then anartha will be finished very soon. That is the test. Test means, bhakti pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt, if you are actually advancing in bhakti, devotional service, then automatically you don't like these nonsense practices. No illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling, no intoxication, automatically. That is the test how far you are. Anartha-nivṛtti syāt, these are anartha. Then if he is niṣṭhā, firm faith, then ruci, taste then asakti, attraction then bhava, then prema. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he is on the stage of prema, prema-gadgadayā vācā tan-nyasta-hṛdayekṣaṇaḥ. when you attain the stage of prema, then your core of heart is cleansed for welcoming, He is there, for seeing.

*Therefore in the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. You can see God within your heart. He is sitting there, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. You get ready, Kṛṣṇa is there within your heart, but you cannot see because you have no prema. You cannot see. Kṛṣṇa does not expose Himself to the non-devotees. He does not, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. He'll not expose Himself, but if you attain the stage of prema, as Prahlāda Mahārāja attained, then you will see Him. How you will see? Sadaiva, always. Not that for two minutes I see and Kṛṣṇa is no more there. No, not like that. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva. Sadaiva means constant, incessantly. You can see.

*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



Then you can offer your prayers to Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, and then your life is successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness process. So try to follow the path chalked out by Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the mahājanas. Out of the twelve mahājanas, he is also one of them. He is our guru. So try to follow Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction and behavior also. Just see his behavior, how he attained the stage of prema gradually.



*So you should be ambitious. Our goal of life. That is the, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, prema pum*-artho mahān. He doesn't say, dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41]. He never says. To become religious, that is not, but that is the beginning, because without religion, everyone is animal, cats and dog. So religion is the beginning, dharma, artha, but generally... (end)



770227SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.7

-

Māyāpur, February 27, 1977



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Prahlāda Mahārāja fixed his mind and sight upon Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva with full attention in complete trance. With a fixed mind, he began to offer prayers in love with a faltering voice."



Prabhupāda:



astauṣīd dharim ekāgra-

manasā susamāhitaḥ

*prema*-gadgadayā vācā

*tan*-nyasta-hṛdayekṣanaḥ

[SB 7.9.7]



*So this is the process. This process you cannot expect immediately, but if you practice general process, very easily done, as it is recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru... [Bg. 18.65]. You cannot get the position of Prahlāda Mahārāja immediately. That is not possible. The process is, first of all, sādhana-bhakti. This Prahlāda Mahārāja's position is different. He is mahā-bhāgavata. In many places we have seen already. He is nitya-siddha. There are two kinds of devotees, three: nitya-siddha, sādhana-siddha, kṛpa-siddha. These things are described in The Nectar of Devotion. Nitya-siddha means they are eternally associate of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are called nitya-siddha. And sādhana-siddha means one is fallen in this material world, but by practice of devotional service according to the rules and regulation, injunction of the śāstra, direction of guru, in this way, one can reach also the same position as the nitya-siddha. This is sādhana-siddha. And there is another. That is Kṛpa-siddha. Kṛpa-siddha means... Just like Nityānanda Prabhu. He wanted that these Jagāi-Mādhāi must be delivered. There was no sādhana. They never followed any rules and regulation. They were thieves and rogues, very fallen condition. But Nityānanda Prabhu wanted to show an example that "I shall deliver these two brothers. Never mind they are so fallen." That is called kṛpa-siddha. So we should always remember there are three categories: nitya-siddha, sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. But when they become siddha, perfect, by any process, they are on the same level. There is no distinction.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja's position is nitya*-siddha. Gaurāṅgera saṅgi gane nitya-siddha boli māne. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He came... Not only He, but others also. Just like with Kṛṣṇa so many devotees, they descended. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is nitya-siddha, nitya-siddha friend. When Kṛṣṇa said that "I spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god...," imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam... [Bg. 4.1]. That is so many millions of years ago. To clear the matter, Arjuna inquired that "Kṛṣṇa, You are of my age. How I can believe that You spoke this philosophy so many millions of years ago?" So what Kṛṣṇa replied, you know, that "My dear Arjuna, both you and Me, we appeared many, many times. The difference is that you have forgotten. That means you were also present at that time because you are My nitya-siddha friend. Whenever I appear, you also appear. But you have forgotten; I have not forgotten." That is the difference between jīva and śiva, or Lord, that we are minute part and particle of the Supreme; *therefore we may forget. But Kṛṣṇa does not forget. That is the difference. So nitya*-siddha. Prahlāda Mahārāja is to be understood as nitya, mahā-bhāgavata, nitya-siddha. They appear to complete the līlā of Kṛṣṇa.

So we should not try to imitate Prahlāda Mahārāja. That is not good. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. I have already explained yesterday. Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the mahājanas, authorized persons, authorized devotee. We should try to follow him. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So śrutayo vibhinnāḥ,

tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā

nāsau munir yasya matam na bhinnam

dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ

mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.186]



You cannot understand God by logic and arguments. It will never settle up. There are so many Māyāvādīs, they are going on perpetually: "What is God?" Neti neti: "This is not, this is not, this is not. What is Brahman?" So by that process you'll never be able to understand what is God. Jñāne prayāse udapāsya namanta eva. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has accepted this formula. By knowledge, by your erudite scholarship, if you want to understand, you may be very high standard scholar, but that is not your qualification to understand God. That is not qualification. You have to give up your vanity that "I am rich, I am very learned, I am very beautiful, I am very...," so on, so on. They are janmaiśvarya śruta śrī [SB 1.8.26]. These are not qualification. Kuntīdevī has said, akincana gocaraḥ: "Kṛṣṇa, You are akiñcana gocara." Akiñcana. Kiñcana means if somebody thinks that "I possess this; *therefore I can purchase Kṛṣṇa," oh, no, that is not. That is not possible. You have to become blank, akiñcana*-gocaraḥ.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja... There was some disagreement with the father, but he was not ordinary person. His father might... He's a very, very big man. He conquered the whole universe. So he was not a poor man's son. He was very rich man's son, Prahlāda Mahārāja. And he was educated by his father sufficiently. Of course, within five years... So janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī. Everything was there, but Prahlāda Mahārāja was not depending on his material circumstances. He was depending on his profound, ecstatic transcendental bliss of devotional service. That is wanted. So that stage immediately we cannot reach. He is nitya*-siddha. As I was going to explain, that whenever Kṛṣṇa descends, His nitya-siddha devotees, associates, they also come. So gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha boli māne, tara haya vrajabhūmi vāsa. Like that. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura... Just like śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī advaita gadādhara śrīvasadi gaura... So these associates of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they are nitya-siddha. You cannot avoid any one of them and make your imagination, that "I shall simply worship..." [break] Kṛṣṇa has appeared-Panca-tattva. Kṛṣṇa is īśa, and Nityānanda Prabhu, He is prakāśa, the first expansion of God. God has many expansion. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam. He has got thousands and thousands exp... So first expansion is Baladeva-tattva, Nityānanda; and His incarnation, Advaita; and His spiritual potency, Gadādhara; *and His marginal potency, Śrīvāsa. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has appeared with pañca..., pañca*-tattvātmakam. You cannot neglect anything. If you think that "I shall simply worship...," oh, that is a great offense, "...Caitanya Mahāprabhu or only Caitanya-Nityānanda" No. You must worship Pañca-tattva, pañca-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇam, in full. Similarly, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, sixteen names, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ (devotees chant) Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So you cannot mix up. You must do according to śāstra. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you deviate from the śāstra, then you will never be successful.

yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na siddhim avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



*So if you want to approach the same level like Prahlāda Mahārāja, we should not immediately imitate him. We must follow the sādhana*-bhakti, sādhana-bhakti, for general, and kṛpa-siddha, that is special. That is incalculable. If Kṛṣṇa wants, He can make immediately somebody very important. That is kṛpa-siddha. So there are three classes of devotees: nitya-siddha and sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. Prahlāda Mahārāja is nitya-siddha. He is not ordinary sādhana-siddha or of course, ultimately there is no difference, either sādhana-siddha or kṛpa-siddha or nitya-siddha. But we should always remember that Prahlāda Mahārāja is not ordinary devotee. He is nitya-siddha. Therefore immediately he developed the transcendental symptoms, aṣṭa-siddhi. Aṣṭa-siddhi, you have read in The Nectar of Devotion. So the ecstasies Ekāgra-manasā. Ekāgra-manasā, "with full attention." For us to bring that full attention may take hundreds and thousands of years, full attention. But Prahlāda Mahārāja, immediately. Immediately. Five-years-old boy. Because he is nitya-siddha. Always we should remember that we cannot imitate. "Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja has immediately ekāgra-manasā, and I shall become also." No. That is not possible. May be possible, but that is not the way.



*Just like in our country, perhaps you know, there was a poet, Rabindranath Tagore. He got many distinction from the Oxford University. He got... He never went to school but he got the title "doctor," "Doctor Rabindranath Tagore." And if you think that "I shall also get doctorate without going to school," that is foolishness. That is special. Similarly, don't try to imitate. Follow the general course, sādhana*-siddhi. The regulative principles you must follow as instructed in the śāstra. Therefore there are so many śāstras. And guru is guide. We must always... Even if you are nitya-siddha or kṛpa-siddha, you should not neglect the general regulative principle. That is very dangerous. Don't try to do that. We must follow. Nitya. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, God, but He is accepting guru. Who is His guru? He is guru of everyone, but He has also accepted Īśvara Purī as His guru. Kṛṣṇa Himself, He accepted His guru, Sāndīpani Muni, teaching us that without guru you cannot make any advance. Ādau gurvāśrayam. The first business is to accept guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Don't think that "I am so advanced. I may not require any guru. I can do without guru." That is nonsense. That, not possible. "Must." Tad vijñānārtham. Tad-vijñānārtham is spiritual science. "Must approach." Gurum evābhigacchet samit-paniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tasmād-guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. If you are actually serious to understand the transcendental science, spiritual knowledge, oh, you must have guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. And... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is no such single instance throughout the whole Vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals, they are becoming guru without any authority. That is not guru. You must be authorized. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rā... [Bg. 4.2]. As soon as the paramparā is lost, sa kālena yoga naṣṭo parantapa, immediately finished. The spiritual potency finished. You can dress like a guru, you can talk big, big words, but it will never be effective.

*So these are the science. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is our guru. He's not ordinary. Don't think that "He's a five*-years-old boy. He has no knowledge." No. He is perfect nitya-siddha guru, and we should always pray for his mercy. And that is Vaiṣṇavata. Vaiṣṇava ṭhākur tomāra kukkura boliyā jānaha more. This is a humble way. "O Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura..." All Vaiṣṇavas are ṭhākura. They are not ordinary persons. Ṭhākura... We therefore address: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākur. So Vaiṣṇava Prahlāda Ṭhākura. So we should always pray, vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukkura boliya jānaha more. This is There is a song of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: "My dear Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, kindly accept me as your dog." Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura. As the dog, by the indication of the master, does everything very obedient, we have to learn this lesson from the dog, how to become faithful to the master. That is the instruction. In everything you can learn something. Everyone Therefore mahā-bhāgavata, they accept everyone as guru, to learn something. Actually, from the dog we can learn this art, how to become faithful at the risk of life even. There are many instances, dog have given the life for the master. So, and we should be dog to the Vaiṣṇava. Chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā, nistāra pāyeche kebā.

*Vaiṣṇava aparādha is a great offense. You know Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. He was a devotee, and he Durvāsā, he was very proud of his yogic power, and he committed offense at the feet of Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, and he was punished by Kṛṣṇa by sending the sudarśana*-cakra. And he wanted help from so many, Brahmā, Viṣṇu. He could go directly to the Viṣṇuloka, but he was not pardoned. He had to come to Vaiṣṇava, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, fall down at his lotus feet. And he, of course, Vaiṣṇava, immediately excused him. So Vaiṣṇava aparādha is great offense, hātī-mātā. So we should be very careful about Vaiṣṇava aparādha. We should not Arcye viṣṇu śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇava-jāti-buddhiḥ. The vaiṣṇava-jāti-buddhiḥ is also another offense, great offense. Similarly, to think of guru as ordinary human being, that is also offense. To think of Deity as made of metal, stone, that is These are offenses. Sa nārakī. So we should be very careful about the regulative principles and follow the footprints of Vaiṣṇava. Mahājano yena sa gataḥ. Don't think that Prahlāda Mahārāja is ordinary boy. We should learn from Prahlāda Mahārāja how to advance in devotional service.

Thank you very much. (end)



680701SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.8

-

Montreal, July 1, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā-munayo 'tha siddhāḥ

*sattvaikatāna*-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ

*nārādhituṁ puru*-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ

*kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ

[SB 7.9.8]



Today I shall recite before you the prayers offered by Prahlāda Mahārāja to Nṛsiṁhadeva. This Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured by his father on account of his becoming a Kṛṣṇa conscious boy. The only fault was that... (aside:) What is that? The door may be open. The Prahlāda Mahārāja was a boy, five years old, youngest son of his father. Very affectionate son. But one day the father took the little boy on his lap and asked the boy, "My dear child, what you have learned the best from your teachers? Will you kindly explain?"



Prahlāda Mahārāja answered,

*tat sādhu manye 'sura*-varya dehināṁ

*sadā samudvigna*-dhiyāmasad-grahāt

*hitvātma*-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

*vanaṁ gato yad*-dharim āśrayeta

[SB 7.5.5]



*The father asked the best thing the boy learned from his teachers, and the boy, five-years-old boy, replied, "My dear best of the demons." He never addressed his father, "My dear father," because his father was atheist number one, godless, and he was a great devotee of God. So when the father inquired, he straightly replied. He knew that his father was very powerful demon, but he was not afraid, although he was five-years-old boy. He plainly replied, "My dear the best of the demons,' sura-varya, asura varya. Asura means demons, and varya means the best, first-class demon. So "I think," tat sādhu manye-sādhu means honest, very good, very nice-"that is very nice." What is that? Dehināṁ: "For the entities who have accepted this material body..." He is speaking universally. Not for himself or for his father, but he was speaking generally for everybody. Everybody. Anyone. Dehināṁ. Dehi means this body. We are different from this body. We have several times discussed this point. So in Sanskrit word there are two implications in the understanding of our existence. One is deha. Deha means this body. And dehi means the proprietor of this body. I am the proprietor of my body, you are the proprietor of your body. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "For all the proprietors of the body"*-that means for everyone who has accepted this material body, all living entities-"that is the best thing." What is that? Sadā samudvigna-dhiyṁ. And anyone who has accepted this material body, his symptom is that he is full of anxieties. This is the disease. To get this body, material body, means to remain always full of anxieties. Either you become the first-class, I mean to say, executive head, President Johnson, or an ordinary man in the Bowery Street-everyone is full of anxiety. Not only human society but also bird society, beast society-everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's full of anxiety. But we want to get free from anxieties. That is our aspiration.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja suggests the remedy, how to become free from anxieties. He says hitvātma*-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ. Ātma ghāṭam. Ātma means the soul, and ghāṭam means killing. Hitvātmā-ghāṭam gṛham andha-kūpaṁ. Andha-kūpa means blind well. Blind well... I do not know whether you have got experience. In India there are several old wells on the paddy fields and they are covered with grass. Nobody can understand that there is a well underneath this, underneath this grass. And if by mistake one comes there, he falls down, say hundred feet down. And it is covered with grass. Even if he cries, "Please save me, save me," who is going to save him? Sometimes cow and animals and men fall down in that way. If he's fortunate enough, somebody comes and rescues. Otherwise, generally, there is no rescue. Who is going to know that there is a man or there is an animal? So hitvātmā-ghāṭam andha-kūpaṁ. This material world is just like that blind well. If somebody falls down in it, it is very difficult to get out of it. Therefore it is ātmā-ghāṭam. Ātma-ghāṭam means killing the soul. How we are killing the soul? We forget that "I am spirit soul." Therefore almost every one of us is forgetful that "I am spirit soul. I am identifying with this body." And Prahlāda Mahārāja says, because we have identified with this body, therefore we are always anxious, full of anxieties. And that is the fact.

*Therefore the whole process of knowledge is... I think some of my student, she is present here. She asked me, "What is knowledge?" The knowledge is that "I am not this body." This is knowledge. Knowledge does not mean that how you can manufacture nuclear weapon. That is not knowledge. That is illusion. Real knowledge is to know the simple fact that "I am not this body." That's all. But that knowledge is very rare. And to acquire that knowledge, there are so many systems. That system is called self*-realization. There is yoga system, there is jñāna system, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, karma-yoga. There are so many yoga systems simply to come to the platform of this knowledge that "I am not this body." And as soon as one comes to this platform that "I am not this body," then what happens to him? Brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realization. And what is that self-realization? What is the symptom? How I can understand that one is self-realized? Prasannātmā. He's jolly. (laughter) The... So long we do not come to that platform of knowledge, we are full of anxieties. And as soon as we come to the platform of knowledge that "I am not this body," the immediate symptom is joyfulness, prasannātmā.

How that prasannātmā is manifested? Everything is there. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Śocati means lamentation, and kāṅkṣati means hankering. These two things will disappear. Śocati, if we lose something, then we lament, "Oh, I have lost so much money. I have lost my son. I have lost my service," and so many things. And kāṅkṣati, kāṅkṣati means, "I haven't got this; I want this; *I haven't got this." These two kinds of diseases makes us always full of anxieties. Why you are anxious? For these two things, Śocati and kāṅkṣati. Lamentation for the loss and hankering after which we do not possess. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that if somebody wants to get free from this anxiety... And this anxiety is due to asad*-grahāt. Asad-grahāt means for accepting this temporary body. Asat. Asat means temporary, that will not exist. So Prahlāda Mahārāja suggests the remedy that if anyone wants to get free from anxieties... Because the anxiety is sure and certain for everyone who has got this material body. But if he wants to get free from it, then hitvātma-ghāṭam gṛham andha-kūpaṁ, the so-called atmosphere of material happiness, he should give up, and vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5], and go to the forest and accept the lotus feet of Hari, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The same instruction is everywhere. In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same instruction is there: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. The one word is that unless and until we take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no, I mean to say, possibility of our getting free from the anxiety of material existence.

*So when Prahlāda Mahārāja explained this verse to his father, atheistic father, he was so angry that he threw him from his lap. "You nonsense, what you are speaking?" Yes. Actually, this is the position. Materialistic persons are so much engrossed in their own thought that if somebody goes there and speaks of Kṛṣṇa consciousness as the solution for all problems, he immediately throws it out. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja's father did it. So from that day, there was misunderstanding between the father and the son. Ultimately the father tortured him in so many ways, and at last, the Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared in a Nṛsiṁhadeva form. Nṛsiṁhadeva means He appeared just like a lion*-half lion and half man. Very big form. The demon was also very stout and strong. So he wanted to be immortal. His purpose was to become immortal and enjoy this material world perpetually, but that was not fulfilled. So when that demon Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed, the Lord was very much in angry mood, and all the demigods present there, they could not pacify the Lord. He was groaning in anger. So they selected Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "My dear boy, it is for you the Lord has appeared, so you kindly try to pacify the Lord. You can do it." So Prahlāda Mahārāja is praying to pacify the Lord.

The first verse is that,

*brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ

*sattvaikatāna*-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ

nārādhituṁ puru guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ

*kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ



*He is humbly presenting himself. This is the qualification of pure devotee. Although Prahlāda Mahārāja stands there, the first*-class devotee... Because all other demigods, they are also devotees, they could not pacify the Lord, and they pushed Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "My dear boy, you do it." So in that meeting he was the first-class devotee, but he presents himself that "I am ugra-jāteḥ. I am born of demoniac father." So when brahmādayaḥ, demigods like Brahmā, sura-ganaḥ, and other demigods, munayaḥ, great sages, and siddhaḥ... Siddhaḥ means those who have got many material perfections. There is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. In Siddhaloka the inhabitants of Siddhaloka, they can fly in the air without any machine. Just like in this planet we can fly in the space with the help of some machine, but in the Siddhaloka they can fly in this body. They have got eight kinds of siddhas, perfection, material perfection. So out of that, this perfection is called laghimā. They can become so light that they can fly in the air. They are called Siddhas. Those Siddhas were also present. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "Here in this meeting the demigods are there, headed by Lord Brahmā, and great sages are there, and the Siddhas are there, and they tried to pacify the Lord by prayers with very fine language." Sattvaika: very selected words. Just like anyone offers prayer to the Lord, they are all selected words. Therefore Lord's name is, another name is Uttama-loka. Uttama. Uttama-śloka means choicest words, "one who is worshiped by the choicest words." So they presented the choicest words, very learned scholars. I mean to say, grammatical, metaphorical, everything very nice. Sattvaikatāna-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ. And they presented their prayers just like flow of the water. They were very learned. So there was no impediment. They could say fluently, pravāhaiḥ.



*Nārādhituṁ puru*-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "These demigods and sages, they could not satisfy. Still, now..." Kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra-jāteḥ. "How it is possible that the Lord will be satisfied by my prayers?" This is the humbleness. A devotee should always consider himself that he has no value. "How I can satisfy Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Lord? I have no possession." That is the devotee's position. A devotee should never think that "I am well equipped. I have got very nice education. I have got great riches. I am wealthy. I am beautiful. I am wise. Therefore as soon as I pray, 'Kṛṣṇa, please come here,' He will come and dance." No. that is not the attitude of devotee. Devotee always thinks very humble, meek. This is the presentation of Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "I am born of a father..." Because they belonged to the atheistic family, demonic family, ugra-jāteḥ. Ugra-jāteḥ means they are not very sober; *always passionate. Ugra*-jāteḥ, always passionate. Passionate means always hankering after sense gratification. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "I am born of a father so greatly passionate. How I can satisfy the Lord, where great personalities and sages and demigods have failed?" He is presenting himself so humbly. But he's intelligent. Without becoming intelligent, nobody can worship God. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Catur means very intelligent. Unless one is first-class intelligent, he cannot worship God. It is not possible. Foolish person cannot worship God.

*It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

na mām duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*Kṛṣṇa says, the Lord says, that "Those who are miscreants, always trying to do harm to the society, to the country, to the people, to the other animals, other living creatures..." They are called duṣkṛtina, miscreants. Miscreants. Na mām duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. And fools. So miscreants, fools, and narādhamāḥ. Narādhama means the lowest of the mankind. Narādhamāḥ. And māyayāpahṛta*-jñānāḥ: and one whose knowledge is taken away by the illusory energy. Who are they? So-called educated. The so-called educated persons, they are very much proud of their university degree, but if you ask some of them, "What you are? Wherefrom you have come to this world, and where you are going next?" Oh, they will say, "What is this nonsense? I am... I do not know wherefrom I have come, where I am going. I have no concern with that. I am concerned with the present life. That's all." But actually, we are not this present life. It is only a spot in our journey. (end)





680702SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.8

-

Montreal, July 2, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*brahmādayaḥ sura*-ganā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ

*sattvaikatāna*-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ

*nārādhituṁ puru*-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ

*kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ

[SB 7.9.8]



This is Prahlāda Mahārāja praying. Prayers of Prahlāda Mahārāja is very important, most glorious prayer of Prahlāda Mahārāja. This is after the death of his father, Hiraṇyakaśipu. When Lord Nṛsiṁha appeared, half lion, half man, with terrible sounds, very gigantic form, and within a second He finished that gigantic demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, the whole world became afraid. Even Lakṣmījī, constant companion of Lord Viṣṇu, she also became afraid. When all the demigods assembled there, Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, and Indra, and many other denizens of higher planets, they came to see why the Lord is so angry, and they tried to pacify Him. But He was still roaring just like a lion. He was roaring because he could not tolerate that "My devotee has been so much tortured, this little boy, five years old. Simply for the reason that he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, only for this fault, this rascal has tortured him so much." So everyone was afraid. Nobody could pacify Him. At that time Brahmā... He is the supreme living entity of this universe. So intelligently, he pushed forward Prahlāda Mahārāja, "My dear boy, you just try to pacify your Lord, because the Lord has appeared to protect you, for you only. So we could not pacify Him. I think if you go forward and pray and pacify the Lord, He may agree." That is a fact.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was not afraid. That will be explained in these verses, that when Lord asked him, "My dear Prahlāda, are you afraid by seeing My, these features?" He replied, "My dear Lord, I am not at all afraid, but I am afraid of this material existence." That is very nice explanation; *we shall come. Now, he says humbly... Vaiṣṇava is always humble. He did not think that "Oh, all other demigods failed to pacify the Lord. Now it is my turn, so how great I am, that I am superceding all these great demigods." So this is the Vaiṣṇava devotee's temperament, humble and meek. They, although they are always in the exalted position, they never advertise that "I am in exalted position." He is never puffed up. As you have read it, the author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, such a great devotee, who could produce in his ripe old age such nice transcendental literature, which is certified by my Guru Mahārāja as the postgraduate study of the devotees... So Bhagavad-gītā is the study for the neophytes, those who are inquiring, those who are trying to understand the science of God, for them. That means it is primary study. And after studying Bhagavad-gītā, just like the boys, after passing the school final examination, they are allowed to enter into the degree college, similarly, one who has understood Bhagavad-gītā very nicely and taken up the instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], such person is eligible to enter into the study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is a preliminary qualification.

*The beginning of devotional service is to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it is also said that what is the beginning of devotional life. He has explained that śraddhā. Devotion means... The Sanskrit word is śraddhā, devotion, affection, affinity, attachment. So... Or faith. The faith word is generally understood. So what sort of faith? There are different kinds of faith. But Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he says that strong faith, not ordinary faith. Strong faith. What sort of strong faith? He has explained, śraddhā śābde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya: [Cc. Madhya 22.62] "That faith means unflinching faith without any deviation, with full understanding." What is that understanding? Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya: "One who engages himself in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, it is to be understood that he has seen all activities of auspicity." That means he has already finished or passed the examination of pious activities. Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. This is the beginning. Unless one takes it firmly that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead..." And if anyone is engaged in the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa, then it is to be understood that he has done all pious activities. This is this faith, this kind of faith, unflinching faith. When we have got this unflinching faith, that is the beginning of Bhāgavata life. Bhāgavata life means devotional life, direct connection with the Supreme God. That is Bhāgavata life.

*So after one has got this unflinching faith, that "Simply by serving Lord Kṛṣṇa, all religious activities or all pious activities are done," that faith is the last word of Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is explained to Arjuna in so many ways. But ultimately, he comes to the point through Him Himself. When He explains the yoga system, He explains nicely the process, how to execute yoga performances, the sitting posture, the breathing posture and eating and sitting and place. Everything explained nicely. But at the end He says that,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*"Of all the yogis, one who is always thinking of Me, Kṛṣṇa, within his heart, he is first*-class yogi." Similarly, when He explains about jñāna system, or philosophical speculation, He summarizes at the end, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births of philosophical speculation, when the learned scholar or philosopher comes to this point..." What is that point? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births' philosophical speculation, when one actually becomes scholar or wise, he surrenders unto Vasudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Why? Vāsudeva sarvam iti: "Because He is everything." This is the end of knowledge, when one understands that Vasudeva is everything. Similarly, yoga-pantha, the process of yoga, the process of jñāna, and the process of karma, fruitive activity. What is that? He summarizes in the Bhagavad-gītā, yat karoṣi yad juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. There are different kinds of activities. So Kṛṣṇa says "Whatever you do, it doesn't matter." If somebody says that "I am a businessman," "That's all right." "What is to be done?" "Now, you do business to your best capacity, but the profit give to Me. The profit is Mine." If you agree, then simply by doing business you become a great devotee. The same example: just like Arjuna. He is a fighter. So how he became so great devotee? By fighting. By fighting for whom? For Kṛṣṇa. "No. He fought for getting the kingdom." No, he did not fight for getting the kingdom. He said, "Better I shall forego. I don't want this kingdom by fighting with my relatives." He was very good man. But he agreed to fight for Kṛṣṇa. He changed his decision. Similarly, any work, if you do for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. Don't think that bhakti means simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and sitting down in one place. No. Bhakti means all kinds of activities. God is all-pervading; *therefore bhakti is also all*-pervading. From all spheres of life the devotional service can be done.



So these things are taught, those who are attached to work, for them; those who are attached to philosophy, for them; those who are attached to yoga system, for them; *and those who are devotees, for them it is certainly. So from all angles of vision, when one comes to the point that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya, if one is engaged in the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa, then everything is perfect. That is the conclusion of Bhāgavata. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. You... How you can test that the particular engagement in which you are occupied, whether it is successful or not? How it is to be tested? The Bhāgavata gives you the formula. What is that, the formula? Now, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. You just try to see whether by your work Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, has become satisfied. If you see that He is satisfied, then whatever work you are doing, either you are philosopher or a businessman or a scientist, or anything, politician... There are so many occupational duties. But you have to test whether that is giving you real perfection. That test is that you have to see whether by your activity the Supreme Lord is satisfied. Then... This is a great science. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness science. Simply... Therefore we have to take shelter of an expert. Just like a student goes to a school, and if he works on exercises and he puts before the teacher, and if the teacher says, "Yes, it is good," then he is successful; *similarly, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] you have to approach to a guru or representative of Kṛṣṇa, and if he says, "It is all right," then you know that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. You have to approach such a person whose certificate will ensure that Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. You have to find out such person. Then your life is success. That will also... You will get according to your sincerity of purpose because Kṛṣṇa is within you.

*So after understanding Bhagavad*-gītā, if one becomes faithful that "I shall devote my life for service of Kṛṣṇa," then he is eligible to enter into the study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That means Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins from the point where Bhagavad-gītā ends. Bhagavad-gītā ends at the point: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], one has to surrender fully unto Kṛṣṇa, giving up all other engagements. Always remember, all other engagement means not that you have to give up. You... Try to understand that Kṛṣṇa said that "You give up everything and surrender unto Me." So that does not mean that Arjuna gave up his fighting capacity. Rather, he took to fighting more vigorously. So "Give up all other engagement" means don't take the fruit of your engagement. Give up. Just sacrifice the fruit of the engagement. That is to be given to Kṛṣṇa. This is surrender. Just like a good boy surrenders to his father means whatever he earns, the money, at the end of month he puts in the hand of the father: "Oh, this is my month's earnings"; similarly, we have to sacrifice the fruits of our labor to Kṛṣṇa. This is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*And to develop that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just like when you have passed preliminary examination in the school, then you have to further enlightenment, further progress of advancement of education, you enter into the college, degree college, similarly, after finishing or understanding Bhagavad*-gītā very nicely, if you are convinced about Kṛṣṇa, then study Bhagavad-gītā (Bhāgavatam), where the beginning is: namo bhagavate vaṣudeva. Vyāsadeva begins by surrendering himself to Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. He is the origin of everything. Then Bhāgavata begins. And one who has understood Bhāgavata, or he has made his relationship well established with Kṛṣṇa and is functioning in that relationship, then he is passed on the subject matter of Bhāgavata, and then you begin Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is postgraduate study. After getting your degree, as you try for your Ph.D. or M.A., similarly, Caitanya-caritāmṛta is like that, post-graduate study. And the author of the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he places himself that "I am lower than the worm in the stool." Just see how humble. This is the nature of Vaiṣṇava. That is not artificial. He says. Every Vaiṣṇava thinks himself as very insignificant. Actually, every one of us is very insignificant in comparison to the Supreme Lord. What we are? Nothing. But if we establish our loving relationship, which is already there, then we will become the greatest. By relationship with the greatest, we become the greatest.

*So artificially, if we become puffed up, "I am God," we shall always remain in the position of a dog. We shall never be God. But actually if we feel ourselves humble and meek servants of God, then we become more than God. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He keeps His devotees more honorable than Himself. And He recommends to the devotees that mad*-bhakta-pūjābhyadhikā: [SB 11.19.21] "My dear devotees, take it for granted that if you worship My devotees, that is more than My devotional service." Kṛṣṇa recommends, and actually that is the fact, that Kṛṣṇa is more pleased. Just like... It is very natural. Just like one gentleman he has got a little child, and if you try to please that little child, that gentleman automatically becomes pleased. You can please the child with two-cent-worth lozenges, and if the child is laughing and very pleased, his father immediately becomes pleased. But if you want to please the father, you will require at least two hundred dollars. So you can finish two hundred dollars' business with two cents. Similarly, devotees are so nice that if you give him anything... Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is also so nice that He will be pleased if anything offer. You offer little water, little flower, little... And devotees are still higher. If you simply offer a devotee a little sweet words, oh, he is very pleased. You see? That is the nature of devotee. Devotee does not want anything from you. They simply want that you... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he said... He has got a nice song that "If you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, oh, I become sold to you." Nityānanda Prabhu also says like that. So to please a devotee is very nice. Therefore our process is to take shelter of a devotee. Directly we don't approach Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhartur pāda-kamalayor dāsa-dāsanudāsa. Therefore in Vṛndāvana you will see everyone is praising Rādhārāṇī because Rādhārāṇī is very quickly pleased. And as soon as Rādhārāṇī is pleased, Kṛṣṇa is automatically pleased. This is the process.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he is such a great devotee, he says that kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ: "Oh, I am born of a father, demon." So naturally everyone presents himself in relationship with father. If your father is American, then you say, "I am American." If my father is Indian, I will say, "I am Indian." Similarly, he is born of a demon father, so he is presenting himself that "I am a demon. I am born of a demon father." Ugra-jāteḥ. Ugra-jāteḥ means... Ugra means violent. Demons are always violent. So "I am born of a violent father. How can I please the Lord? Brahma, Lord Śiva, and so many other demigods, they have failed to please, to pacify the Lord in His angry mood, and I am born a demon, born of a demon father. So my position is so lower." Kiṁ toṣṭum arhati: "How can I please the Lord?" Ugra-jāteḥ. Brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇāḥ: "Where demigods like Brahma, munayo, great sages, and siddha..." Siddhas, they are the particular citizens of Siddhaloka. They are called Siddhas. There is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. There is description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam of the Siddhaloka in the Second Canto. Siddhaloka is a planet where the inhabitants can fly in the air without any machine, without any airplane. Just like bird can fly in the air without any machine, so the denizens of Siddhaloka, they can also fly in the air without any machine, without any airplane, and they can go from one planet to another. They are called Siddha. Siddha means they have got eight kinds of perfection. The yoga system, those who are practicing yoga, their ultimate goal is to achieve eight kinds of perfection, not that simply exercising, finish. Actual yoga system means to attain eight kinds of perfection. What is that eight kinds of perfection? Oh, he can become the smaller than the smallest. I have several times explained. A perfect yogi, if you put him in lock-up, he will come out. He will become the smaller than the smallest and come out from the lock-up. I have seen it. So he can become greater than the greatest, smaller than the smallest, greater... Aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti. He can get anything whatever he likes immediately. Prāpti, siddhi, prākāmya, īśīta, maśīta. There are so many kinds of yogic perfections. So these siddhas, they can travel from one place to another, even ordinary yogis, those who have perfected. They take bath in the morning in four different pilgrimages in India. That means thousands of thousands of miles away, and they finish it within one hour. They go and take bath, again come back. So these are yogic perfections. They are called siddhas.

So all the denizens of that particular planet, they are siddhas. Siddhas means they have got all the perfection of yoga practice. So they were also present, offering prayers; *Brahmā was present, Lord Śiva was present, and great sages were present. All of them tried to pacify. And how they wanted to pacify? Sattvaikatāna*-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ: They were very great learned men. Immediately they began to compose in Sanskrit verses so many nice prayers, and they were all full of goodness, modes of goodness. Sattvaikatāna-vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ. Pravāhaiḥ means they prayed in such a fluent way, just like the river flows down without any gheck. That is the learned man. Just like a learned man will speak fluently for hours together, similarly, they were so learned scholars that they composed prayers in Sanskrit so nicely and began to speak just like flow of water. So he says, sattvaikatāna-gatayo vacasāṁ nārādhituṁ: "Still, they could not satisfy the Lord." Nārādhituṁ. Puru-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ: "Still, the Lord is not pacified. Still." Kiṁ toṣṭum arhati: "Then what can I do?" Where... There is an English word, "Where angels fail, the fools rush in." So "I am so lower. I am born of an atheistic father, demon. How can I please the Lord?" So this is the position.

So now how he will please the Lord we shall discuss in the next meeting. Thank you. So any questions?

Devotee: Could you say that prayer again of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa..."? I didn't understand that.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has composed a song that he is going all around the city begging alms. So he says that "I don't want anything from you. Simply you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and that will be satisfactory." So we can do also, following the footprints of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Nityānanda Prabhu. Āmāre kiṁlaha, laha gaurāṅgera saṅge... Nityānanda Prabhu... (end)





681021SB.SEA

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.8

-

Seattle, October 21, 1968



Prabhupāda: ...something about the prayers of Prahlāda Mahārāja.



*brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ

*sattvaikatāna*-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ

*nārādhituṁ puru*-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ

*kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ

[SB 7.9.8]



When Lord Nṛsiṁha appeared... This is the picture. You have seen. For killing a great demon, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu was very powerful materialist, and he did not believe in God. Generally, materialistic person, they have no capacity to understand what is God. That is generally.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated that bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām [Bg. 2.44]. Bhoga, bhoga means sense enjoyment, and aiśvarya means opulence, wealth, riches. Persons who are very much attached to sense gratification and hankering after material opulence, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayā, and by such thing, apahṛta-cetasām... Apahṛta means bewildered; cetasām, consciousness. Such persons, they are thinking that "These things will save me." They never think that they will have to leave all these things behind him, and he has to go alone. Just like when a bird flies in the sky, so he has to leave behind him everything, and he has to fly in the sky on his own strength. There is no other help. Why bird? Take these airplanes, jet planes. When we get on the sky, leaving this land, no more we can depend on our strength on the land. If the plane is sufficiently strong, then we can fly; *otherwise there is danger. Similarly persons who are very much materialistic, they are thinking that this opulence, prestige, and material strength will save him. No. That is bewilderment. Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, tayā apahṛta-cetasām. Apahṛta-cetasām means whose consciousness has become bewildered by these material opulences. Such persons, tayā apahṛta-cetasām, for them, vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ samādhau na vidhīyate. Samādhi. Samādhi means concentration in the vyavasāyātmikā, niścayātmikā-buddhiḥ. Niścayātmikā means to be firmly convinced that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness will only save me." This conviction such persons cannot have. Which persons? Those who are too much sensuous and after material opulence.

*bhogaiśvarya*-prasaktānāṁ

*tayāpahṛta*-cetasām

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na vidhīyate

[Bg. 2.44]



*And vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ means confidence. Vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ ekeha kuru*-nandana. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will study. Now we are getting our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So Bhagavad-gītā and the Teachings of Lord Caitanya and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Whatever we have already printed, you study them very nicely. And I think those who are harassed by this military board, today I have got hint from one paper addressed to Kārttikeya that if one boy is certified that he's engaged in studying spiritual consciousness or theological..., then he's not called. So we shall issue certificate, bona fide. Now I am admitted in your country as bona fide, ordained minister of religion. So I think I can issue certificate. So this will be nice.



So vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ. Vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ means full confidence that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will save me and nothing can save me. This full confidence. So those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, their firm faith is in one, Kṛṣṇa.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

*ekeha kuru*-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām



Avyavasāyinām means those who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, those who are flickering, for them, bahu-śākhā, many branches. They think that "This will save me, this will save me, that will save me, that will save me." But one who is fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he knows, and it is certain that Kṛṣṇa will save him. That's all. It's very easy to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. One. God is one. God cannot be many. God is one. Otherwise there is no meaning of God. God means, the definition of God means that "the person or the entity who has no equal, neither superior." Nobody is superior to Him and nobody is equal to Him. Asama ūrdhva. Asama means equal. Sama means equal. Asama. Everyone is not equal to Him. Nobody is equal to Him and nobody is higher than Him. That is God. So God is one. There cannot be many Gods, but God can expand Himself in many forms. That is different thing.



*So this Hiraṇyakaśipu was not confident. He was thinking, he was materially puffed up, and he was thinking that he is God. When his son... Fortunately, his son Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a great devotee, Vaiṣṇava, by the grace of Nārada, and he was always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When he was in school, five*-years-old boy, and naturally, the school was an atheistic school. Just like nowadays, in no school, colleges they encourage any theological study. What is called? Secular state. So gradually we are becoming like that Hiraṇyakaśipu. But Hiraṇyakaśipu tried, Rāvaṇa tried, Kaṁsa tried to exist without God, but they did not exist. So nobody can exist. So this Hiraṇyakaśipu tried to protect himself by so many material ways, but when he was too much against his innocent devotee son, then Kṛṣṇa appeared as Nṛsiṁhadeva, and He was very fearful. So much fearful that all the demigods came to pacify Him, but He was groaning in anger. So there is anger in God also. Somebody says that "Why God should be angry?" No, God, there is anger. Everything is there in God. Otherwise where anger comes from? He is the source of everything, but He is absolute. His anger is also as good as His mercy. That is the difference. When we become angry, there is no mercy. Mercy is far away from it. But God, Kṛṣṇa, because He is absolute, either He is angry or He is merciful, He's the same. The word God is good. He's good when He's angry and He's good when He's merciful. That is difference. In the material contaminated state, not only God, even God's devotee, they also acquire the same quality. Sometimes we see that saintly persons like Nārada, Śiva, they also become angry and curse somebody, but that curse becomes benediction. So that is the absolute stage.

*So Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed by Nṛsiṁhadeva, and everyone was afraid, very fearful, that "God's appeared in such a fearful appearance, half*-lion shape and half-man's shape with four hands." So nobody could pacify Him. Everyone was afraid. Then Prahlāda Mahārāja was, he was only five-years-old boy. He was requested that "Nṛsiṁhadeva has appeared for your protection especially. So you try to pacify the Lord." So the boy was very jolly. So he was praying this way, that brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇa munayo 'tha siddhāḥ: "I see here there are so many great personalities just like Brahmā, Śiva, and Indra, Candra, all great demigods." Brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇāḥ. Sura-gaṇāḥ means demigods; *and munayo, great saintly persons, sages, all of them are here. And siddhya. Siddhya means the residents of the Siddhaloka. There is a planet within this universe which is caled Siddhaloka. Siddhaloka means there the inhabitants are so highly elevated. They are also materialists. They are also not spiritualists. But still, they are materially so advanced that the description is... Here, in this planet, we are flying in the sky in the outer space with some machine, but there, in that planet, Siddhaloka, the persons are so elevated, either you call materially or spiritually... Actually, they are materially. These are material, that they can fly in the sky without any machine, without any machine. Wherever they like, they can go. Whatever they want, immediately... That is yoga*-siddhi. You have heard of so much advertisement of yoga. Actually, when one becomes perfect in yoga, aṣṭa-siddhi-yoga, eight kinds of material perfection, that he can become the smallest... Smaller than the atom he can become. He can go out from anywhere. You lock him in airtight packed, but he'll come out. This is called animā-siddhi.

*Actually, it so happened in Benares. There was a swami. His name was Trailuṅga Swami. Trailuṅga Swami, he was wandering in the street naked. Government... It is not very old story, say about 150 years ago this happened in Benares. So he was naked yogi, and government will not allow, police will not allow. So he was thrice arrested and put into the custody, and thrice he came out. Then he became very famous man, simply by exhibiting one perfection of yoga. That means a yogi can come out. Not only Trailuṅga Swami, but we have seen one Mr. Chakravarti in our childhood in a circus, he was playing this part. He was packed up. First of all, his hands and legs were tightly knotted with seal. Then he was put into a bag and the bag was also sealed. Then with this bag he was put in a box. The box was locked and sealed. And he came out from that box*-in everyone's presence. We have seen it. And again, he was seen that he was packed up in that way.

*So yoga siddhi, these wonderful things are there. Similarly, one can walk on the water. He'll not be drowned. He becomes so light he can float in the air. These are... So siddhya. Siddhya means the persons who reside in that planet, they have got automatically, by taking birth in that... Just like taking birth in the Western countries, America or Europe, you are more opulent than other countries materially. Similarly, in Kṛṣṇaloka also, those who are there, they are automatically all lover of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, there are many different planets, different kinds of residents. We... What knowledge we have got? But we have to take knowledge from the śāstra. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says, śāstra-cakṣuṣat. You have to understand, you have to gather your knowledge from authentic scripture, not by experimental knowledge. Experimental knowledge cannot be perfect because our instruments of acquiring knowledge are imperfect. So however we may tackle these instruments perfectly in our way, basically they are imperfect. Therefore perfect knowledge you cannot have. If you want to have perfect knowledge, then you have to understand this authoritative scripture. Just like here, in this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we understand that there is Brahma, or the demigods, and the siddhaḥ. So we have to accept. You cannot understand these things by experimental knowledge. Simply as it is. Therefore I am presenting this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then you understand. That is knowledge, perfect knowledge. Otherwise, if you interpret, if you don't believe, then you don't get. There is no other way. The same example. Just like-I am repeating again*-that if you want to know who is your father, the only witness is your mother. Higher evidence is final. If we want to make experiment who is your father, that is not possible. That experimental knowledge is not possible. You have to accept. Similarly, for perfect knowledge of the father or perfect knowledge of the Supreme, you have to accept the version, supreme version of Vedas. Then it is perfect.

So there are many different planets within this universe and beyond this universe, spiritual planets. Keśava tuar jagata vicitra. God's creation is very variety. So we should not think that this is all in all. This is that Dr. Frog's knowledge. Dr. Frog knows that "This small well is everything." He has no knowledge of the Pacific Ocean. Similarly, these Dr. Frogs of this material world, they are thinking this planet is all in all. And 25,000 miles up this planet, that is all space. No.

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*Brahmā, the first class, the first living entity within this universe, he says that panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso. If you, not to speak of these airplanes, but if you can prepare a plane of the mental plane... Just like mental plane, you are sitting here, you can immediately transfer yourself ten thousand miles away or more than that, immediately, within a second. Just like I am here in America, Los Angeles, and India is about fifteen thousand miles away from this place, but immediately, within second, I can think that I'm sitting in my room there. How it is? The mind is so forceful. Just see. This is practical. You can transfer your mind immediately. So how can you compare with these airplanes? Can the airplanes... Airplanes means vāyu. Vāyu means air. These are all in Sanskrit language in the scriptures. These are not very new things. You see? Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor atha [Bs. 5.34]. Vāyu means air, and ratha means plane, airplane. So either by the airplane... Airplane is not so speedy. The jet planes are running at the rate of five hundred miles or one thousand miles per hour, but my mental plane can run fifteen thousand miles per second. You see? And just understand then the spirit, how much speedy the spirit should be. Because here, matter, there are matter: earth, water, fire... Then air. Air is very fine. Earth is crude. Water is crude. Then earth, water, fire. Fire is still finer, but crude. But still finer, air, and still finer, ether and still finer, mind, and still finer, soul. You see? So just imagine if mind is so strong that it can transfer itself from here to fifteen thousand miles in a second, how much speedy and powerful is the soul.



So these yogis, they come to the platform of the mental plane, speedy. The yogis can transfer. There are many yogis still, in India, that early in the morning they travel about four thousand miles within half an hour and take bath in four different pilgrimages within half an hour. Yes. So yogic powers are so... What yogis we have seen? Siddhaḥ, that is siddhaḥ. The demigods, siddhaḥ... There are persons; *it is not story. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "These demigods, these great saintly persons, these siddhas, how they have become so powerful?" Sattvaikatāna: being situated in the material modes of goodness. If you put yourself, keep yourself in the modes of goodness, then you get more and more your spiritual power. And if you keep yourself in the modes of ignorance and passion, then you cannot make progress. You'll have to remain here or go down. If you keep yourself in the modes of ignorance, then you go down even to the animal kingdom. If you keep yourself in the modes of passion, then at most, you can remain in Europe and America, that's all. But if you keep yourself in goodness, then you can go up. These are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ, those who are in the modes of goodness, even they are not spiritually very much advanced so that they can enter into the spiritual kingdom, they'll go in the upper status of planetary system, just like Siddhaloka, Janarloka, Maharloka. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. And in the middle planetary system... The middle planetary system, this earth is in the middle planetary system, heaven also. Bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ. You are chanting Gāyatrī mantra: bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ, these are within the middle. Then above this there was Mahar, Jana, Tapa, Satya, four. Three and four, seven up and seven down planetary system. So those who are in the modes of goodness, they are elevated to the higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tisthanti rājasāḥ jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti [Bg. 14.18]*-they are elevated to the higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā. Jaghanya means very abominable character. You see? Eating nonsense, and keeping nonsense, habits nonsense. Just like little more than the animals, that's all. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. They are going down, down, down, down. These things are explained there.

*Here, these brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā, the demigods headed by Lord Brahmā and the siddhas and the great saintly persons and elevated yogis, how they have become? Sattvaikatāna-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ. They fluently explain in very nice words, just like prayer. Whenever the Lord's name... Kṛṣṇa's name is Uttamaśloka. Uttama, uttama means selected, high class. Actually, not high class. It is transcendental. Ut means "trans," and tama, tama means "darkness," and śloka means "verses." So uttamaśloka means verses which are not of this material world. When Brahma-saṁhitā we read, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **, these words, these vibrations are not of this material world. These are vibration transcendental, above this material world. Sattvaikatāna-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ. And they are so learned that fluently they went on praying the Lord with uttamaśloka, selected transcendental sounds, but nārādhituṁ puru-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ. But still, the Lord is not yet pacified. Although these great personalities have presented their prayers in so nice selected verses and they are transcendental vibration, still, they could not pacify the Lord. And kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra-jāteḥ: "Then how it is possible for me, because I am born of a father who was most passionate. So my body is most abominable. I have got this body from the abominable father. How can I please Lord when they have failed?" This is Vaiṣṇava. He's not proud. He's not proud. Because the Brahmā, Lakṣmī, and all the demigods and saintly persons have requested him, "My dear Prahlāda, you try." That means he is greater than all the persons present there; otherwise how they could request him? Just like if in an assembly, if somebody is requested, "Please, you lead us," that means that person, that leader, is the greatest of all. So Prahlāda is accepted as the greatest personality than Brahmā, than the demigods, than the yogis. But this is the humbleness, meek. This is... In Bible also, it is said the humble and meek can enter into the kingdom of God. So out of his humbleness, meekness, he's expressing, he's presenting himself that "These great personalities, they failed to pacify the Lord. How it is possible for me, who has got this body born of a passionate father?" This is very beautiful.

*So Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us that how we shall preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't be disheartened because the police is obstructing, because the people are complaining. They will do that. Just like... Why this police and public? This poor, innocent boy, five years old, because he was chanting, his father became his enemy. His father, what to speak of others. So it is such a thing. In any... You try to trace out the history of the world, you'll find always persons who are for Kṛṣṇa or God, they have been persecuted. Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was caned in twenty*-two market places, Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured by his father. So there may be such things. Of course, Kṛṣṇa will protect us. So don't be afraid. Don't be afraid if somebody tortures us, somebody teases us. We must go on with Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any hesitation, and Kṛṣṇa will give us protect. If you are more tortured, then Kṛṣṇa will appear as Nṛsiṁhadeva and give you all protection. You are all Prahlāda, representative of Prahlāda. You keep your confidence in Kṛṣṇa, and He will give you protection, and go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (obeisances) Now, any question?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do we enter into the modes of goodness?



*Prabhupāda: Just try to follow the four principles as we have prescribed: no intoxication, no gambling, no illicit sex, and no meat*-eating. That's all. This is goodness. This is goodness. These prohibitions are there. Why? Just to keep you in goodness. In every religion... Now, in the Ten Commandments also, I see that "Thou shall not kill." The same thing is there, but people are not obeying. That is a different thing. No religious person... Nobody can be religious unless he is situated in the modes of goodness. A passionate person or a person in ignorance, they cannot be elevated to the religious platform. Religious platform means in goodness. Then you can understand. On the platform of goodness, you can understand the All-good. If you are in ignorance platform, if you are in the passionate platform, how you can understand the All-good? That is not possible. So one has to keep himself in goodness, and that goodness means one should follow the prohibitions. Either you follow the Ten Commandments or these four commandments, the same thing. That means you have to keep yourself in goodness. The balance must be in goodness. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supermost pure. How you can approach the supermost pure without becoming yourself pure? So this is the steppingstone to become pure, because we are contaminated. So to become pure... The Ekādaśī, why we observe? To become pure. Brahmacarya tapasya, austerity, penance, celibacy, keeping the mind always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, keeping the body always cleansed-these things will help us to keep us in goodness. Without goodness, it is not possible. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that even one is in the modes of passion and ignorance, at once he'll be elevated on the platform of goodness, provided he agrees to follow the rules and regulations and chants Hare Kṛṣṇa. This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa and following the rules and regulation will keep you intact in goodness. Rest assured. Without failure. Is that very difficult? Huh? That's all right.



Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, was the appearance of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva predicted in the śāstras, in the *Vedas*, or does the Lord appear any time His devotees are in dire need for His protection?



*Prabhupāda: No. It is generally said that whenever there is discrepancies in the matter of discharging religious principles and whenever there is too much prominence of irreligiosity, at that time the Lord appears. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya [Bg. 4.7]. This is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. So because it is... Just like as soon as there is some riotous condition in any quarter or any part of the city, there is police action immediately. So this is God's kingdom, either this material or spiritual. So everyone has to obey the God's law. That is religion. Religion means... What do you mean by religion? Religion means... Just like good citizen. What do you mean by good citizen? Who obeys the laws of the state. So what is religion? Religion means to obey the laws of God. That's all. Religion. Religion you cannot manufacture, just like you cannot manufacture law. Law is made by the state. You cannot manufacture law. If you say, "I have manufactured this law," who cares for your law? Similarly, so-called religion, nonsense religion, there are so many manufactured, who cares for? That is not religion. Religion means God's law. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. That is religion. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other things. Simply you become Kṛṣṇa conscious." This is religion. This is the order, this is the word. So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is to become religious, is to remain in goodness, and is to make progress and advancement in self-realization. Everything is complete. There is no comparison of any religion with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We can challenge any religionist, "Come and see, and test and compare." So the same advertisement: "You all, in '69, match this." So nobody can match Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is so nice.



*Jaya*-gopāla: What sort of living entity is Māyādevī?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



*Jaya*-gopāla: What type of living entity is Māyādevī?



Prabhupāda: She is Vaiṣṇavī. She is great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But she has accepted a thankless task, to punish. The policeman is a sincere government servant, but he has accepted a task, nobody likes him. (laughs) If some policeman comes here, immediately you shall feel disturbed. But he is the sincere servant of government. That is the position of Māyā. Her business is to punish these rascals who have come to enjoy here. (laughter) You see? But she is a sincere servant of God.



*Jaya*-gopāla: Is this like a post?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a post, thankless post. Nobody thanks, everyone derides, you see. But she is a great devotee. She tolerates and punishes. That's all. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. She only wants to see that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious, I leave you, that's all." Police business is that "You become law*-abiding citizen; *then I have no connection with you." So far. "And so long you are not a law*-abiding (citizen), I shall kick you as much as possible." So Māyā's business is like this. And we are complaining, "Why you are kicking? Why you are kicking?" "Yes, I shall kick you because you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. I shall make you Kṛṣṇa conscious by kicking, kicking, kicking. That's all. That is my business." Our business is to implore, tṛṇād api sunīcena. Our preaching method is not kicking. Our preaching method is, dante nidhāya tṛṇakam, by taking a grass in the teeth, padayor nipatya, falling down on the feet, and kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca ahaṁ bravīmi, and flattering you hundred times, I'm just submitting one thing: "Become Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is our process. And Māyā, his process different. (S)he'll say, "Why you shall become Kṛṣṇa conscious? You just enjoy and I shall kick you very nicely. That's all." And he accepts, "Yes, you kick me and let me enjoy, but I am not going to these Kṛṣṇa conscious persons." (laughter) You see? Practically, Māyā's business, our business is same, but her process is different, our process is different. The people like her process. [break] (kīrtana) [break] (second kīrtana-Prabhupāda starts tapping microphone) I think it is not working. This is not working. (kīrtana continues) This is not working.



*Jaya*-gopāla: It's working. It's working, but it isn't loud at all.



Prabhupāda: Well, loud outside.(?) We want loud. (kīrtana continues) Govinda dāsī! You fix loudspeaker? You fix up loudspeaker when I'm chanting.(?) Loudspeaker. (end)





690321SB.HAW

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.8

-

Hawaii, March 21, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ

sattvaikatāna gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ

*nārādhituṁ puru*-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ

*kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ

[SB 7.9.8]



*This is a prayer by Prahlāda Mahārāja. You know the history of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was devotee from childhood. When he was only five years old... He was devotee from the womb of his mother. His mother was under the shelter of... [break] When her husband was defeated and he was exiled, rather, from his kingdom by the demigods, so he left his kingdom, wife, and children, and was exiled, and in that condition of exile, he made severe penances, austerities, to gain over the demigods, and he was empowered by Lord Brahmā that he would not be killed, indirectly. This story you know. In our Los Angeles temple they have made very nice puppet show, and people are appreciating very much. Even they are selling ticket at the rate of one dollar fifty cent, still, people are coming. Last Sunday I was present, and they invited, distributed pamphlets, and more than a hundred people came, and they participated with the kīrtana very nicely, they heard the lecture, and the function was for two hours. Still, they kept very busy themselves in eating prasādam, in seeing the puppet show and the cinema of Ratha*-yātrā. So many things. It was very successful. And they collected about more than $150.



*So things have to be organized. People are actually hankering after this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because it is the natural function of the living entity. It is not artificial. The very, I mean to, vivid example are yourselves. Your contact with me is, utmost, for the last two years, but still, you are taking very serious interest in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Why? Because it is the fundamental necessity. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). Every living entity is by nature joyful, spiritually, and because he is materially covered, his joyfulness is hampered. That is the real position. Feverish condition, one becomes sick, attacked by fever-his joyfulness goes away. He becomes sick. Similarly, our natural position is joy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. Kṛṣṇa is joyful. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore I must be also joyful. That is natural. If my father is black, then I am also black. If my mother is black, I am also black. So our father, the supreme father Kṛṣṇa, is joyful. Don't you see Kṛṣṇa's attitude? Anywhere you see, Kṛṣṇa is joyful. He is not engaged in some industrial work or in some heavy machine making. He is simply playing on His flute. You see? And Rādhārāṇī is there. That is joyful nature. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt.

*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*The Brahma-saṁhitā says that His eternal form is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa means taste, mellow. So we are also seeking some rasa in everything*-a juice. When you taste any fruit or anywhere, you are seeking after some juice, everyone. So there is another juice which is ānanda-cinmaya, which is spiritual and simply blissful. That is Kṛṣṇa's form. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis. And when there is expansion of ānanda-cinmaya, that spiritual bliss expansion, that expansion is ourself. He has expanded. We are that expansion, living entities. And ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tabh... The gopīs, gopīs are also expansion. The cowherds boys, they are expansions. Everything. Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself. Eko bahu śyāma: "One. I am one." The Supreme Lord says, 'I am one. I shall expand." So He has expanded by His energy, by His part and parcel, and everywhere the same quality is there. But there are proportion. Just like when there is fire there is bursting out of sparks. Some of the spark are very big; some of the spark are small, some of them, very small. In this way there are proportion. Similarly, all living entities, all energy, they are all expansion of Kṛṣṇa. The material energy, the spiritual energy, the marginal energy, they are all expansion. Just like sunlight, expansion of the sun. And in the sunlight... It is very easy to understand. In the sunlight there are so many planets, and each and every planet have varieties of production, mountains, seas, ocean, trees, or trees. There are varieties of trees, animals, each and every planet. So nothing is void or impersonal. Everything is full of varieties, personalities. So you can understand. And what are these planets? These planets are called dvīpa. Dvīpa means island. Just like this is an island. We are sitting in this Kauai island. Why it is island? Because all around water. Similarly, all these planets are called also islands. Why? Because all around the space, space water. As this is surrounded by water, the planets are surrounded by space. So if you take the space, ethereal ocean, then it is island. Every planet is an island.



*Now, if you go to another island, there also you will find the same varieties as you find here. Similarly, if you go to other planet, you will find the same varieties as here. Maybe little different, climatic, but the quality of variety is the same. There is no reason to believe that there is no life, no variegated. This is all nonsense. If I come from the mainland of America, USA, to this island, I'll find the same trees or same population and same working. What is the reason to believe that there is no life, there is no vegetable? Why? This is lack of knowledge. Everywhere the same varieties. And wherefrom the varieties are coming? From the sunshine. That is fact, scientific. Because the sunshine is there, so many varieties of planet are coming out, and in each and every planet there are so many varieties of vegetation, human being, animals, seas, mountain. And similarly... This is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Yasya prabhā. These innumerable universes, how they have been possible? How they are existing? That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, "On account of Kṛṣṇa's effulgence." You see Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa is sitting, you will find effulgence. That effulgence, it is so full of potencies. Same way, as the sunlight, sunshine, is so full of potencies*-they are producing so many planets, varieties-similarly, you can understand how much Kṛṣṇa's effulgence, that shining from His body, is potential. So that is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Coming out universes. And within the universes there are planets, and within the planet there are so many varieties, and within the varieties there are so many differentiation.

*So this is all expansion. Try to understand how Kṛṣṇa... Because we have got very limited knowledge. Ātmavat manyate jagat. The same Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog is calculation in his own way, and he is puzzled how there can be an Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean. Because he has never experienced, he has no idea, he is thinking, "This three feet water expansion, that is very big water." So our folly is that we are trying to study Kṛṣṇa, or God, by our own standard, frog standard. We do not know how great Kṛṣṇa is, how His potency is great, how He is manufacturing, how He is... Because we think, "If we have to manufacture something, I require some tools, I require some energy, I require some ingredients. I have to collect it. Then I can make." Therefore we are surprised, "How Kṛṣṇa can make, or how God can create, this universe? Where is that instrument? Where is that ingredient?" They cannot. They are thinking in that way, that "I require instrument. Kṛṣṇa requires the hammer and the saw to manufacture this comic manifestation." I am thinking in that way. Therefore I cannot believe it, how the cause of this cosmic manifestation can be a person. They are thinking imperson. Impersonal bigness, they think it is very important. Actually, it has no value. Background is person. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭha: "The impersonal Brahman, I am the cause. I am the source of impersonal Brahman."

*So these things cannot be understood by ordinary brain. It requires a different brain. That brain is created by devotional service, these finer tissues. Just like those who are dull materialists, their brain is congested with so much rubbish thing, they cannot understand that it is through the bodily effulgence of the Lord the potential manifestation is this cosmic manifestation. They will think that like Dr. Frog, "If it is created by God, where He got so much ingredient, so much instrument, that He created?" Yes. But God's creation is not like that. Automatically, the effulgence is coming. Just like the sun, from the sun disc, automatically the heat is profusely distributed and everything is taking place out of His own... The sun*-god, or the sun, or the predominating deity in the sun planet, he does not come out to manufacture another planet. He is there. You can understand from this material example how things are being created through the sunlight, how the planets are growing due to sunlight. If there is no sunlight, we'll see all plants will die. That is our experience. And because the sunlight is there, the plant is growing, they are becoming green, they are becoming red, they are becoming flavored. So all interaction of these five elements, water, earth, fire, heat and ether... So wherefrom the sunlight comes? From the sun. Wherefrom the sun comes? From the brahmajyoti. Wherefrom the brahmajyoti comes? It is from Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand how Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth or the original source of everything. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin. I am the source of all creation." Bhagavad-gītā says. "And from Me everything is coming." Sarva. Sarva means whatever you can think, everything is coming from... If you think for the time being about the sun, what is the sun? The sun is also coming from Him. Sarvam. Sarvam means including everything. Sarvam ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. He is the origin of Brahmā. Generally, we think Brahmā has created. Brahmā is also created by Him. Lord Śiva is also created by Him. Because from Brahmā, Rudra... Rudra is stated to be the son of Brahmā. So Brahmā is the son, or born out of the lotus flower from the abdomen of Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. In this way Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. That is a fact. That is the verdict of all Vedic literature. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you can understand the original person, Kṛṣṇa, then everything will come to your knowledge. Everything will be understood: how everything is existing, how they are appearing, how they are disappearing, how they are existing. Everything will be known.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was very much tortured by his father because he was a devotee. That is the function of the nondevotees: to tease the devotees. That is not very new thing. That is old. Even the father. So when he was too much teased, then Lord appeared in Nṛsiṁha*-mūrti to kill the demon, and He was very much angry. You see? Even a neighbor's child, if he is tortured by his father, you will be angry that "Why you are torturing this little child?" And what to speak of Kṛṣṇa? And especially His devotee, Prahlāda Mahārāja, was being tortured. Kṛṣṇa appeared as Lord Buddha because people tortured these ordinary animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. We pray in that keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. The meaning is that He appeared as Lord Buddha, being compassionate on the animals, who were being tortured by the human being. Of course, there is law to punish them, but sometimes the Lord becomes very much tortured Himself when His sons, or may be animals, they are tortured. Otherwise, how He is father of everyone? You see.

*So the torturing business of the demons is going on, going on. As soon as the demons finds somebody little weak, they will torture, weak, in their way. A devotee is not weak, but they think that "These devotees, they are weak. They cannot do any materialistic work. They cannot build skyscrapers. They cannot build a subtle machine. So they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." You see? They think like that. But actually, they know, the devotees know, what is this value of this materialistic advancement. People are not happy actually. Now, so far materialistic happiness is concerned, your country, America, is number one. You are all qualified boys and girls, I see. But still, if we calculate impartially, what is the advantage? The advantage: hand to mouth. You earn in the morning and eat in the evening*-finished. You see? Such qualified boys that... I take, for example, Gaurasundara. He is thoughtful. He is educated. He knows so many things, artist. But for livelihood he has to go early in the morning and come late in the evening. So what is the result? This is the way of materialistic life. Life means that they should not work. Working hard, very hard working, that is the animal's business. The animal should be engaged to work hard for feeding, whole day. Just like the cow is standing here, sometimes eating this, sometime eating that, sometime eating that. What is the business? Only business: to fill up the belly. That's all. But after all qualification, if one has to do the same thing just to fill up the belly, working twelve hours, fourteen hours, then what is this civilization? Has this civilization given the opportunity that "Oh, you have no more to work. Simply sit down, every, all comforts." You can say some of the rich men, they are employing like that, but they are enjoying at the cost of others. They have made such machinery that hundreds of men will work for them and they will sit down and enjoy. What is the enjoyment? Women and wine. That's all. Therefore some, a section of people, revolting-Communists.

*So this materialistic way of life is not human life. It is less than animal life. Animal also does not work so hard. You see? And the people are engaged, wherever you go, the very big highways. What is called? Freeways. Four lines of motor cars running this way and four lines of motor cars running this way at the speed of seventy miles, and everyone is busy. You see? And they take, "It is a very good civilization." And if you shortcut your hard labor, sit down and discuss what is the Absolute Truth, what is the philosophy of life, "They are nonsense." You see? And if you work day and night, hard labor, and to get that energy, inject some medicine or some tranquilizer and this and that... You see? This is the..., going on. So actually, this is not life. This is cats' and dogs' life. That is the verdict of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "This life, human form of life, is not meant for working so hard just like animals." Then? "This kind of engagement is for the dogs and hogs." The hogs also, they work the whole day and night and have some sex pleasure. They are happy. So is that life, simply working day and night hard and enjoy some sex pleasure some way or other, and we are thinking happy? No. This is not life. Life is to utilize the energy for perpetual happiness. They do not know that there is some perpetual happiness, there is perpetual life. They are so ignorant. Therefore they are trying: "Whatever happiness can be had here, just enjoy." But there is. You are eternal. You are blissful. Simply you are covered by this material energy.

So the demons, they do not know it, and if somebody tries for it, they do not take it very nicely, exactly. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. His philosophy was to finish all anxieties of life. His father asked him that "What finest thing you have learned, my dear boy? Can you say?" "Yes." "What is that?" "Now, these people are working hard and full of anxieties on account of their materialistic way of life. Therefore, I think to give up all this nonsense and go to the forest and surrender to Kṛṣṇa. "Oh," the father said, "what nonsense this child is learning?"

*tyaktvā ātma*-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

*tat sādhu manye 'sura*-vārya dehināṁ

*sadā samudvignā (*-dhīyam) asad-grahat

[SB 7.5.5]



*Sadā samudvignā*-dhiyām asad-grahāt. "My dear father..." He directly addressed his father, "My dear father, the best of the demons." If I address you "best of the dogs," is that very nice thing? But if you think, "Oh, Swamijī addresses 'best.' " But best of what? "Best of the dogs." (laughs) So similarly, he addressed his father, "My dear best of the demons." Asurya-vārya, this very word means... Asura... Asura means demon, and vārya, vārya means the best. He did not like to address his father as "father." He knew that "What nonsense this father is? He is a demon." So a preacher... Prahlāda Mahārāja is not, I mean to say, against his father. Otherwise, he would not have prayed to Lord Nṛsiṁha, "My dear Lord, kindly forgive my father." Just see. Because he addressed his father as "best of the demons," that does not mean he had no love for his father. Simply by flattering, if I do some, ultimately do some harm unto you, then what is the meaning of that flattery? Here the father and son in the material world, they are addressing very nicely, but the father is sending the son to the hell, and the son is also sending the father to the hell by materialistic activities. A father is teaching, "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Eat meat and drink and associate with as many girls and... That is... This is enjoyment." That means, indirectly, he is sending his son to the hell. You see? There is no love. Actually, this is no love. If I help you in the matter of for your ruination, that is not love.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja did not flatter his father. This should be the attitude of devotee. They should straightly speak everything truth. Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by his father, "Oh, how you are so bold? You are a child. You are bold. You are talking before me so boldly. Where do you get such strength before me?" Immediately, "My dear father, from the same source wherefrom you have got your strength, and you are so proud of your kingdom and material acquisition, I also got this, by the same source. But you are revolted; I am not revolted. But the source is the same. You cannot be so powerful without Kṛṣṇa." Even the demons... The only difference is the demons wanted like that, so Kṛṣṇa has, "All right. You take this demonic power." That's all. But it is out of causeless mercy of Kṛṣṇa even the demons are so proud, but they have taken taken their mercy from Kṛṣṇa to go to hell. And the devotees take the mercy of Kṛṣṇa to render Him loving service. That is the difference between the demons and the devotees. Everyone achieves... Whatever facilities he has got in his life, it is all from Kṛṣṇa. Without Kṛṣṇa nobody can have anything, either demonic or devotional. The difference is that the demons, they do not know what to ask from Kṛṣṇa. The devotees know what to ask from Kṛṣṇa. That is difference. Suppose if you go to a king and he says, the king gives you open order that "Whatever you like, you can ask from me. I shall give you." And if you ask from the king, "My dear king, please give me a plate of ashes," is that very intelligence? The king is asking that "Whatever you want, you ask from me. I shall give you," and if somebody asks from him, "Give me a plate of ashes," is that very nice? So that intelligence, the demons, they haven't got. They are asking from God that "Give me this. Give me riches. Give me power. Give me material name, fame. All these things give me. I don't want anything." So Kṛṣṇa is giving them.

So this demonic behavior was ended by Kṛṣṇa when it was too much, too much intolerable for the Lord. The demonic, the demons, are given all the chances: "All right, whatever you like, you do." But when the demonic power becomes too much excessive, at that time, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8], "For protecting the devotees and for killing the demons," Kṛṣṇa says, yuge yuge sambhavāmi: "I come down and appear on this earth in many million, millenniums." So that Nṛsiṁhadeva has appeared to give protection to Prahlāda Mahārāja and to kill his demon father, and He was very much angry. Now, some nonsense people may say... They inquire like this: "Why God should be angry?" Why should not He be angry? Wherefrom the anger comes? If God is the source of everything, then wherefrom this anger comes? It comes from God. How you can deny it? Why God should not be angry? If Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8], "I am the source of everything," so anger is not within the categories of everything? So why God should not be angry? He must be angry. But He is angry on the nondevotee, not on His devotee. On the demons He is angry.

*So anger has got some utilization, not that I should not be angry. I should use my anger on some particular occasion. It is not that I cut off anger. That is... To become impotent is not good, but you have got full potency, but you can have sex life when it is required. To become impotent is not required. You should be fully potent but not misuse it. That is required. Similarly, there is no misuse by God or His devotee. Otherwise, there is no question of..., that the devotee or God should not be angry, but they know how to use it. That is the difference. As God knows where to use anger, similarly, devotee should also know where to use anger. "I am not angry. You can beat me with shoes. I am not angry." That is not devotional. You see? But, the thing is, a devotee is not angry on his personal account. Just like God also does not become angry on His personal account. Suppose Hiraṇyakaśipu wants to hurt Kṛṣṇa. What he can do to Kṛṣṇa? So where is the cause of anger? He was angry not that Hiraṇyakaśipu was a demon or nondevotee. He was angry because that demon was teasing the devotee. For His personal account, He cannot be angry. What anyone can harm Kṛṣṇa? He is so powerful. Suppose a small ant comes and bites me. So is that the cause of my anger? No. What is that? That is nothing. Similarly, what Hiraṇyakaśipu can do so that the Lord should be angry? But then why then He was angry? He was angry for His devotee. Similarly, we also, if we are devotee, we shall be angry when God is insulted. When devotee is insulted, we should be very much angry. But if somebody insults me, I don't be angry. "All right, he insulted. I tolerate." But when you speak against God, when you say, "I am God," I shall beat you with shoes. I shall be so much angry. You see. That should be attitude of the devotee also. As God is angry for his devotee, similarly, our anger should be also utilized for God. Just try to understand. It is not that we shall not be angry. Yes, we shall be angry, but in suitable place, where God is insulted. When a rascal is claiming that he is God and deceiving others, you must be very much angry, "You rascal, what you are doing?" Somebody may say, "Oh, you are devotee? Why you have become so angry?" Now, why not? Here is the question of God and His devotee. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us that "You become tolerant than the tree and humble than the grass." But when Jagāi*-Mādhāi insulted Lord Nityānanda, oh, He immediately became so angry, "Oh, bring My cakra. I shall kill these persons." Did He become a tolerant like the tree, "All right, Nityānanda insulted. Let Me become tolerant"? (laughs) No, no. Try to understand. You see? We should not be impotent. Arjuna, he was declining to fight, not that he was impotent, he could not fight. He was a great warrior. But he was refusing, "Oh, what for this personal interest is to kill them?" But when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants this," oh, he showed his potency.

So to become a devotee is not to become impotent, but everything has proper use. Just like if you are lusty, that lust should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. I am lusty to accumulate money. Yes, you bring money, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. We don't say that you should not be lusty. If you have got capacity to earn money, earn money, as much as you can, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. If I am very angry, yes, you remain angry, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. I am very greedy. Yes, you become greedy for Kṛṣṇa. How to become greedy? "Oh, I must have good association. Where Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being preached, I must be very greedy." That greediness is not there, but "I am very greedy: Where is wine? Where is woman? Where is club? Where is naked dance? I am greedy." You see? I am not greedy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that greediness should be turned like that. So these are the things to be learned by the devotee. We should not be impotent. We should not be null and void. We should possess everything, but for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

We can stop. [break]

Devotee: ...and they say something like "I am God." Some young people our age, they talk like that. Does this mean that we should become angry at them because...



Prabhupāda: No. First of all... Just like there is some gentlemanly behavior: even if you are angry on some person, but you do not show your anger; you talk with him. Similarly, actually these persons are demons, but because we are preacher, we are preaching, if we simply become angry and cannot convince him, that means imperfect preacher. You see? You are... Basically you are angry. That's all. "I don't agree with them; neither we have business." But because we are preacher, so if I simply become angry, then my preaching work will be stopped. Do you follow? The anger is there, but because we are preacher, we have to... Just like politicians. They are angry upon the enemy, but sometimes, by diplomatic means, they take their work from the enemies. You see? Not that they show the anger always. Similarly, when you go to preaching, first of all try to convince him that "How you become God? What is your definition of God?" You simply ask, "What do you mean by 'God,' that you are claiming to be God? If you come under that definition, then you are God." Just like if somebody claims that "I am millionaire. I am very rich," a poor man, walking on the street with niggardly dress, if he claims that "I am rich man," will you accept? Then he is crazy. If he is claiming that "I am millionaire," then you have to ask that "Where is your sign of being a millionaire? You have no good dress. Your feature is so ugly. How you are millionaire? What is the definition of a millionaire?" First ask him. Similarly, ask him that "What do you know about God? What is the definition of God? If your behavior and everything tallies with that definition, then you are God. I will accept. We are God worshiper. Then I shall worship you. But first of all let me know what do you mean by God?" Is it very difficult job? Let him define what is God. "If you claim that I am God, then you must know what is God. If you falsely claim 'God,' then how you can be God?" You don't you ask like this, that "What is your definition of God that you are claiming God"? The same example: If somebody claims that "I am very rich man," but I see that he is a poor man, shall I not ask, "What do you mean by rich man?" By his definition he will be defeated. Ask him. Did you ask anybody, "What is the definition of God? What do you mean by God?" He's a rascal. He does not know what is the definition of God, but he has got some conception that "This is God." Then he must explain, "I mean by the word God, this." Then he will be captured by his definition, by his statement. Just guess what he will explain about God if you ask him like that. Did you not ask like this?



Devotee: I asked one person, and he said 'Everything." He said he was everything.



Prabhupāda: He was everything.



Devotee: He said he was everything.



Prabhupāda: He was. Oh, how you became... He was not. He is not? Then ask him, the next question. He was everything. That's all right.



Devotee: Then he simply talks jugglery words.



*Prabhupāda: That you also, you have to get. That's all right. He was once God, he was once rich. That's all right. But how he has become poor? He was at sometimes God, accepted. But how he has become dog instead of God? But God is susceptible to such falldown? Then what kind of God he is? If God is subjected sometimes to fall down, then he is not all*-powerful. Then the cause which has made him fall down, that is powerful. Therefore he is not God. God is all-powerful. So why other power will make him to come down from the position of God? Then that power is powerful. But God is all-powerful; therefore he is not God. This is common reasoning. God cannot be subjected to any other external... Just like according to Biblical philosophy, "God and Satan." God is never under the influence of Satan. Is there any statement in the Bible that "God has become under the influence of Satan"? Then Satan become great. God is not great. Similarly, if by some cause, by Satanic cause, one has fallen down from the position of God to the position of dog, then that Satan is greater than God. But God is great. Therefore he is not God. Gaursundara? How do you think this argument?



Gaursundara: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. God cannot be under the influence of anything so that He may fall down. That is not God, because God is all*-powerful. Why He should be influenced by any other power? Then what kind of God? Then he is not God. Just try to understand how to argue. Then you will be able to argue with them. Yes, ask any other question in that connection. I shall try to explain. Sit down!



Govinda dāsī: Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Govinda dāsī: Whenever we preach that you can utilize anything and everything in the service of Kṛṣṇa, that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa and therefore we can utilize everything in His service, but then the rascals may say, "Well, if we can use everything in Kṛṣṇa's service, then why is it that these four things are excluded and they can't be used?"



*Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa does not want it. I cannot utilize everything and anything for Kṛṣṇa which Kṛṣṇa does not like. Because you are Kṛṣṇa's servant, so you have to take permission from Kṛṣṇa, "Would You like this?" If He says, "Yes," yes, I can use that. If Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, I will eat meat," oh, I shall kill all the animals and give Him, offer Him. But if Kṛṣṇa says, "No, I want fruits," then how can I give everything Him against His will? Is that devotion? Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. He says that "Fruits, flower, vegetables*-anyone give Me with devotion, I eat." Therefore you have to do that. Everything, anything, does not mean that you will go against the will of Kṛṣṇa. Does it mean that? If Kṛṣṇa says, "You bring this," "Ah, never mind." Even though I do not like it, I shall do it. Just like Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." Is fighting good? He was good man. He didn't want to fight. But Kṛṣṇa said, "You fight," so against his will he fought. That is anything and everything. From gentleman's point of view, from nonviolence point of view, Arjuna was very nice. He was not willing to fight. But Kṛṣṇa said, "You must fight," and therefore everything was engaged. That is everything: with permission of Kṛṣṇa. Not that you can manufacture anything, "Oh, it is for Kṛṣṇa's service." You can offer everything to Kṛṣṇa under His permission, or His representative's permission, not whimsically. Is that clear? Yes. Because you are Kṛṣṇa's servant, you have dedicated your life to serve Him, how you can offer anything which He does not like? Anything and everything does not mean beyond the jurisdiction of His permission. That you cannot do.



Girl devotee: Swamijī, then the rascals could say, "If God is everything, why does He reject some things? If God is everything, why does He accept some things and reject other things?"



Prabhupāda: That is God's choice. The same example: The stool and urine, the cause is your body. That does not mean that you have to eat stool and urine. Just like this hair. My body is the cause. Why do you cut the hair and throw it away? Nails, the cause is the body. Nail is coming out from this body. Why do you cut and throw it away? So even, even Kṛṣṇa is the cause of everything, you should accept what Kṛṣṇa wants. Not that because He is the cause of everything, everything should be accepted. Yes. Come here. Why don't you give her something playing? (baby)



Girl devotee: I didn't bring something with me. I forgot to bring it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. She must have some engagement. Yes.



*Girl devotee: She likes Bhagavad*-gītā.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Hm. Just try. Of course, you are going to preach. You must understand. Discuss everything very nicely. Be convinced on your own argument and philosophy. Then you can preach. You don't be in doubts and hazardous way. Whatever question you are putting, just try to understand them very nicely, without any doubt. So is that, your question is answered or not?



Girl devotee: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Clear? Your question is clear? And your question? Yes. So you learn how to answer. We have got answers for everyone. The major question is that the demons, they want to become God. So let them explain what the demon means by the word God. If he comes under that definition, then we shall accept him God. But if there is no idea of God, then his claim is false. Just like I am in your country. If I falsely claim, "I am citizens of America," how can I be accepted? You can be accepted as citizen of America because there is a definition of the word "citizen of America." So your position comply with that definition*-you can be accepted as citizens of America. And my position does not comply with that definition; therefore I am not citizen. So in this way. "All right, I accept you God, but what is your definition of God?" Just ask him to explain. What do they say God means? What does he mean, "God"? What do they explain? Did you not ask? What do they say?



Devotee: He said God means everything, and they say that God is everywhere.



Prabhupāda: Are you everywhere? Now you are on the street. Are you in your home?



Devotee: Some people say they are, though. They say, "I am everything."



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Are you President Johnson? If you are everything, then why you are abiding by the state laws? You are under the state laws. If you say in the police station, "I am everything. You cannot say anything," will it be accepted? How do you say you are everything? You are crazy. Yes.



Girl devotee: That's what it comes down to, really.



Prabhupāda: So if you are not crazy, then we can talk with you. You are crazy. How you are everything? Prove that you are everything. What is the answer? What should be the answer that he is everything? Simply by claiming? If you simply, falsely claim that "I am everything of this city. Everything belongs to me," will that stabilize him, that he is everything? Then? How you are everything? Prove it.



Sudāmā: Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Sudāmā: I have spoken with men on the street and they have said, "Well, if God is the creator of everything and is so dear to everyone, why then has He caused so much suffering?" And I have told them that it is because it was our choice. This was our individual choice. But they don't accept that.



*Prabhupāda: That means he is not reasonable. Every... Now, when a man is diseased, that does not mean everyone is diseased. That disease is his choice. Just like Kārttikeya is now sick. I am telling that "You should not... Why you have taken this? Why you have taken this?" So he has caused the disease. Similarly, suffering we cause. If that suffering is for all, why the other man is not suffering? Why you are suffering? That means you are cause for the suffering. The same reasoning, that if somebody says, "Oh, the high*-court judge is so unkind to me. He has ordered for me hanging," is that correct? You have caused your hanging. The high-court judge has simply given the judgment that "He should be hanged. He has committed murder. He should be hanged." Therefore your commitment, you committed murder, that you caused your hanging, not that high-court judge is your enemy, and he is giving you order to be hanged. You are the cause of your hanging. Similarly, God is impartial. He can give the judgment that "This man has committed this offense. He should be punished like this." These are common reasons. God is all kind. God is all-great. So how He should be so mean-minded that He should give somebody suffering and somebody enjoyment? Is that not meanmindedness if I treat differently? I have got so many disciples. If I treat some of my disciples very nicely and some of my disciples badly, is that very good for me? So how... God is all-kind. How He can be like that? It is my karma. This is law of karma, fruitive activities. If you work in a certain way, you get the fruit. If you study very nicely, you become very educated. The university has the facility to give you. But if you say, "Oh, why God has made me uneducated?" is that reason? But the university is open for you. Why did you not take the trouble of being educated? You cannot say, "Why the government has made me uneducated?" Government is giving facility to everyone, "Come on." And is that argument, "Why government has made me criminal?" You have made yourself criminal. So you try to understand. You have to preach. We should not be defeated by any demons, provided he is not crazy. What is the argument there with the crazy man?



Sudāmā: I have seen it happening that way with saṅkīrtana on the street. Even myself, my anger sometimes has gone off till we're both in such anger, we're like this with one another, and the whole preaching is all off. They are crazy, and I have wasted my time.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. But try to your best. Your service is to Kṛṣṇa, so it is not expected that everyone should be induced by your argument. You cannot expect. One day, two day, but we have to do our work. That's all. (pause) (aside:) Oh, she is very glad. Yes. Yes. (laughter) Sit down. Sit down. She is angry now. Very angry? (laughter*-Prabhupāda playing with baby) Angry. That is anger?



Girl devotee: I don't know. I've never seen anything like it.



Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





720305sb.cal

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.8

-

Calcutta, March 5, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja says brahmādayaḥ sura*-ganā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ [SB 7.9.8]. Brahmādayaḥ, amongst the demigods the head is Lord Brahma, brahma ādayaḥ. Ādi-kavi, Brahma is known as ādi-kavi, the first living creature within this universe. Because when this universe was created, the first living being visible was Brahma. Then from Brahma, Lord Siva appeared. Brahmā śiva viriñcit(?). And Viṣṇu is the origin. From Viṣṇu's navel lotus flower, Brahma appeared; *and from Brahma, Lord Siva appeared. Lord Siva's another name is Rudra. When Lord Brahma created the four Kumāras, Sanaka, Sanātana, Sananda, Sanat*-kumāra, so Brahma asked them, "My dear boys, you just marry and advance the progeny, create more sons and grandsons." They refused. They said, "My dear father, we are not going to marry. We shall remain brahmacārī." So naturally, when father's disorder is disobeyed, he becomes angry. So Brahma became angry, and his eyes became red. At that time, from the red eyes the Rudra, Lord Siva, appeared. So he was asked to increase the progeny, and he begot many thousands of demons. Then he was stopped, no more you have progeny. Then Dakṣa and others, they were asked. Dakṣa Mahārāja was very expert in giving birth. He was giving birth hundred children at a time. Therefore his name is Dakṣa, very expert in giving birth to children. So in this way, creation was there, sons and grandsons. Manu is also one of the sons of Brahma.



*So brahmādayaḥ, Brahma is ādi, ādi*-kavi. He was instructed by Kṛṣṇa, tene brahma ādi-kavaye. Lord Kṛṣṇa, He instructed Brahma to spread knowledge, Vedic knowledge, all over the universe. Tene. Tene means broadcasted, expanded. So tene brahma, brahma means śabda-brahma, Vedas. Hṛda, one may question how Brahma was instructed. So that is also stated, hṛda. Hṛda means from within the heart. So, therefore, Kṛṣṇa is also caitya-guru, a guru, spiritual master, within the heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am situated in everyone's heart." Sarvasya ca ahaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. Sarvasya cāham hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. "From Me one can remember, one can forget." How is that? Kṛṣṇa helps one to remember and one helps..., He helps one to forget. That is also replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give you facilities to forget Him forever. And if you want to remember Kṛṣṇa, He will give you facilities to remember Him.

*That means Kṛṣṇa has given us little independence. Independence, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is fully independent, sva*-rāṭ. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. He is fully independent. But we are, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got also little independence. That quality is there. Kṛṣṇa does not touch that independence quality. You can utilize it. You can use it properly, you can misuse it also. That is independence. Kṛṣṇa does not force that "You must do this." He can give you instruction. Just like Kṛṣṇa gives instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Now it is my independence, I can give up everything, all other engagements, and I can simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And I cannot also, I may not. If I don't like, Kṛṣṇa does not interfere. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you like, you do." Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. That is, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "Now whatever you like you do." So this independence is always there.

*Now when we misuse this independence... Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa (is) to serve. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa*-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa orders, "You surrender!" Just like we sometimes order our servants or subordinates, sons, disciples, "You do this! Don't talk!" So Kṛṣṇa can order that because He is the Supreme. Any superior personality can order like that. But unfortunately, we misuse. We don't carry out the order of the superior. That is misuse. So any subordinate who does not carry the order of the master, he is dangerous. He is dangerous. That is spoken by Canakya Pandita, bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. Bhṛtyaḥ, subordinate, servant, if he is giving reply. Cānakya Paṇḍita, you know Cāṇakya-śloka, he is a great politician as well as moral instructor. So he has said duṣṭā bhāryā, his wife is duṣṭa, polluted. Wife becomes polluted if she is attracted by somebody else more than her husband, she is called polluted. Duṣṭā bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitram, and friend playing duplicity. Duṣṭā bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ, and servant replying to the order. Master says, "You do this first!" "Sir, we have got so many business, this and that, we shall do it." Oh, that is a dangerous thing.

*duṣṭā*-bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ

*bhṛtyaś ca uttara*-dāyakaḥ

*sa*-sarpe ca gṛhe vāso

mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ



*So these four things, unfaithful wife, a dupli..., a cheating friend, and servant disobeying order, and a snake within the room, all these things are causes or the..., will cause death at any time. At any time, they can do anything. There are many instances. So these moral instructions are very nice given by Cānakya Paṇḍita. So all living entities who have disobeyed the order of Kṛṣṇa, sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], that is the principle. Every living entity must be obedient to Kṛṣṇa. But by misuse of his little independence, if he does not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately becomes arrested by māyā.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



Immediately. That is the law. daivī hi eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. He has to obey. But if he disobeys the order of Kṛṣṇa, he must come down to the jurisdiction of māyā to be forced to obey the orders of material nature.



*So brahmādayaḥ, everyone, everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa. Īśvara means controller, order giver, that is one. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. All others, they are... [break] ...it is said, śiva-viriñci-nutaṁ śaraṇyam bhṛtyārti-ham, vande mahā-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam [SB 11.5.33]. Śiva-viriñci-nutaṁ. Brahma, viriñci means Brahma and śivaḥ means Lord Siva. They also offer obeisances unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. That is Ṛg Veda mantra, that Viṣṇu is paraṁ padam, supreme. And Viṣṇu is partial expansion of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Mahā-Viṣṇu, not ordinary Viṣṇu. There are different types of Viṣṇu also. Mahā-Viṣṇu, from Mahā-Viṣṇu there is Garbhodak... Mahā-Viṣṇu is called Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And this Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu enters in every universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And this Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu again expands as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. These are viṣṇu-tattvas. But this original Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is plenary expansion of Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā,

*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-bilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*Viṣṇu, Mahā*-Viṣṇu, His description is given, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Mahā-Viṣṇu is so big, He is lying in the Causal Ocean, that many innumerable quantity of universes are coming out by His exhaling and in..., exhaling. And from the pores of His body, innumerable universes are coming. And the Brahma lives only during the exhaling and inhaling time, that's all. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kāla-viśeṣo [Bs. 5.48]. This Mahā-Viṣṇu is portion of the portion of Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Just like Kṛṣṇa says... This Mahā-Viṣṇu and Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. When Kṛṣṇa... When Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa about His vibhūti, about His power. So He summarized, athavā bahunaitena kim jñātena tavārjuna, "How much I shall explain about My power and energy?" Vistabhya aham ekamsena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Aham, "I enter in one of My plenary portion, that is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, I maintain the whole material cosmic manifestation." Ekāṁśena sthito jagat.



*So there are innumerable numberless universes. We cannot account for one universe even. We do not know how many planets and stars are there. When we are very much advanced in scientific knowledge, we are trying to go to the moon planet after spending millions and trillions of dollars. But still we could not fix up anything in the moon planet. That is the nearest planet. And what to speak of other planets. There are innumerable planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa*-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. So these are the explanation. So the Brahma, you have one Brahma, there are innumerable Brahmas and innumerable Śivas and innumerable demigods, as many universes are there. Innumerable suns and moons and planet, innumerable. And all this taken together, that becomes one fourth of the whole creation of God. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. The three-fourth portion of Kṛṣṇa's creation, God's creation, is in the Vaikuṇṭha jagat. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, which is permanent. Within this material nature, all these universes, they stay during the lifetime of Brahma; *and as soon as Brahma dies, everything is finished. Such Brahma, such powerful Brahma, they also offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, here it is said, brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā. Brahmādayaḥ, not only Brahma, but others. Brahma, Siva, and Indra, Candra, Varuna, so many. There are many crores of demigods, as many planets there are.



*So they offered Nṛsiṁhadeva their prayers to pacify Him, but they could not. Therefore, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that if brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā siddhāḥ. Here Śrīdhara Swami says munayo manana śīla siddhyaḥ jñanino 'pi (?). Manano śīla, manano śīla means speculator, philosophers. Muni means one who can think very deeply, manano śīla. Those who can explain(expand?) by thinking, feeling, and willing and can write volumes of books. There are many you know in our country, they are called manano śīla. They take pleasure by mental speculation, manano śīla, and they are men of knowledge also, jñanino 'pi. (Sanskrit quotes from Śrīdhara Swami commentary) And what kind of...? These great sages and saintly persons, what is their qualification? They are situated in knowledge, in sattva-guṇa, in light. They are not in darkness. Although they are not in darkness, but without being in the platform of sattva-guṇa, nobody can become very intelligent person, philosopher, or mental speculator also. Their position is very high in the material calculation. So such persons, api, (Sanskrit quotes from Śrīdhara Swami commentary), they are also unable to satisfy.

*Just like if a man becomes angry, so somebody tries to satisfy him. Just like somebody...sometimes our small child becomes angry and cries very loudly and the parents satisfy, "My dear boy, you are so nice, why you are crying? You can take this," just to pacify. Similarly, when Nṛsiṁhadeva became very angry for killing, because He was angry because Hiraṇyakaśipu teased his devotee, Prahlāda, so much. Therefore, He was very, very angry. Vaiṣṇava aparādha. If anyone offends a Vaiṣṇava, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is the greatest offender. Kṛṣṇa never excuses. That I explained yesterday. It is very... Vaiṣṇava aparādha is the greatest dangerous offense. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu in His teaching to Sri Rūpa Goswāmī, He has especially, vaiṣṇava*-aparādha hātī mātā, you are doing everything. He has compared Vaiṣṇava aparādha as mad elephant. He has very nicely metaphorically explained this. Just like you have a nice garden, very good garden, you are watering, you are giving protection, giving manure, everything. But if in that garden a mad elephant enters, then it will destroy everything, all your labor will go to hell immediately. It will destroy everything. Similarly, you may do anything very nicely; *but if you commit offense at the feet of a pure Vaiṣṇava, then all your assets will be immediately vanquished. Vaiṣṇava aparādha. Because Kṛṣṇa is very angry. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram yoniṣu [Bg. 16.19]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, dviṣataḥ krūrān. Dviṣataḥ, those who are envious upon Vaiṣṇava and Viṣṇu, the more dangerous position is to be envious of a Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇu aparādha can be excused, God is very kind. But He never excuses Vaiṣṇava aparādha. That is His vow.

*So because He was very angry, therefore, all the Brahmas and other demigods offered Him prayer, "Sir, be pacified, the demon is now killed, now You can become peaceful," but they could not satisfy. Hiraṇyakaśipu after killing He was so roaring in anger. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was pushed on, "My dear Prahlāda," all the Brahmas and other demigods, that "you pacify your master. We have failed." Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "When these big, big stalwart demigods have failed, they are situated in sattva*-guṇa, in the modes of goodness, and they offered so nice prayers, they failed. What I can do? I am born of a father who is full of rāja-guṇa and tama-guṇa." He, therefore, says that kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra-jāteḥ. Ugra-jāteḥ, "I am born of ugra, strong, strong qualities." Not strong quality, what do you call? Pungent. These rāja-guṇa and tama-guṇa is called pungent. Just like you take chili. Chili is tama-guṇa, that is the symptom of tama-guṇa. As soon as you chew, it becomes hot everything. You see? So ugra, ugra. And sattva-guṇa is sweetness. (indistinct) Therefore, ordinarily in India it is stated that a brāhmaṇa is known who can eat more sweets. (laughter) Yes.

*It is said that there was a king, he was giving shelter to all the brāhmaṇas. He had a guest house. Guest house, so any brāhmaṇa can stay there. So many non*-brāhmaṇas also were coming. So the order was that the brāhmaṇa can stay there and there was a store, he can take his supplies from the store and eat and live there peacefully. And the storekeeper was submitting bill to the king that your guest has taken so many things, kindly pay. So he was paying. So he was testing by the bill. If he would see the bill contains more spices and chilis, he will ask immediately, "Drag this man, he is not a brāhmaṇa." (laughter) "Drag this, he is not a brāhmaṇa." So be careful, don't take much. I know you don't take much. But if you take too much chilis and spices, then you will be considered amongst the non-brāhmaṇas. You can take more sweets. (laughter) So if the bill was submitted containing more sugar, then he would accept, "Yes, that man is brāhmaṇa." (laughter) So these three guṇas means sweet, salt, and chili. Sattva-guṇa is sweet, and rāja-guṇa is salt, and tama-guṇa is chili.

*So here it is said that "All the siddhas, all these demigods, they are on the sattvaikatāna*-gatayo, they are all situated in the modes of goodness and they have offered their prayers but could not pacify the Lord, then what I can do? I am born of a person, ugra-jāteḥ, born of chili father." (laughter) "What I can do? Because I am born of a chili father." (laughter) Then he considers that gunair api, jam nārādhituṁ na pipruḥ tat purna saktai tyaktva sa harir me katham toṣṭum praptam arhati (?). Sa hareḥ, "That Supreme Personality of Godhead, how He can be pacified by me?" Toṣṭum arhati. In other words, that God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be achieved by persons who are polluted by the chili quality and salt quality, or tama-guṇa and raja-guṇa, rajas tamaḥ. Rajas tamo bhāvāḥ [SB 1.2.19]. If we are infected with... There are three qualities within this material world, sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tama-guṇa. So generally people are infected with tama-guṇa and raja-guṇa. There are very few persons who are under the sattva-guṇa. But Kṛṣṇa says that one can overcome the influence of raja-guṇa and tama-guṇa by simply hearing about Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā or from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is the recommendation.

*The recommendation is śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Śṛṇvataṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa, as I already told you, Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. So when people are anxious to hear about Kṛṣṇa, this is the only qualification. Just like you are so kind, you are anxious to hear about Kṛṣṇa because here there is no other business than Kṛṣṇa. All of you who have come here, it is due to your anxiousness to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Because our society's name is Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. When I registered this society, some friend suggested that "Why don't you make it God Consciousness?" I said "No. God means Kṛṣṇa." Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah [Bs. 5.1]. God means..., the Supreme God means Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme God. If we say God, it remains a vague thing. It is not clearly understood. Everyone can be God. God, this word can be applied to everyone. God means controller. So everyone can be controller. Therefore, we have distinctly mentioned Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in our society, anyone who joins, that means he is interested in Kṛṣṇa, little. May not be very much. At least they come here out of inquisitiveness to hear what they speak about Kṛṣṇa, what do they do about Kṛṣṇa. But our everything is open. There is no secrecy. We worship Kṛṣṇa, we think of Kṛṣṇa, we work for Kṛṣṇa, we glorify Kṛṣṇa, we chant for Kṛṣṇa, we dedicate our life for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... This is our philosophy. We think of Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says, we are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, we worship Kṛṣṇa, mad-yājī, we offer our obeisance to Kṛṣṇa, māṁ namaskuru, this is our... Sarva-dharmān parityajya, we have no other religion, we don't approve any other religion except Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our philosophy.

*So anyone who comes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or contributes something for pushing on this movement, he becomes immediately benefited. Immediate. Because Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa it is said śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Kṛṣṇa is there within your heart. As soon as He sees that you are trying to do something for Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes favorably disposed upon you. Even if you don't get anything, you become pious, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Even if you don't... Just like I am speaking in English. There are many audience here, they may not understand English. But even if you do not understand, because you are hearing, you are getting the result of pious activities. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. It does not mean that you have to understand each and every word. Because you are allowing your ear to receive the sound vibration, you are being benefited. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Śṛṇvataṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. So if you... Please, simply hear what is going on here. That is also beneficial, puṇya. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Simply hearing, chanting, you join with us chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you hear Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you become pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is so nice. Bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam. Suta Gosvāmī said that the kṛṣṇa-sampraśna, because you have inquired about Kṛṣṇa, so it is loka-maṅgalam, it is very much beneficial to the whole world. This saṅkīrtana movement is like that. Anywhere we are going, we are making the whole atmosphere purified. It is not here in India, we have got branches all over the world. In Africa, even those black men, they are also. Because in the spiritual world, there is no such consideration the black, white. Because it is the spiritual platform. The spirit soul is neither black, neither white, neither yellow. This is dress. Just like within the dress we are everyone. The dress may be black, white, yellow, that does not matter.

*So our this movement invites everyone, because it is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. If you please come and hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa becomes favorably disposed that "Now this soul, this individual soul is now inclined to hear about Me." So He gives facilities. What is that facility? The facility is that within our heart there are so many dirty things. Therefore, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa helps in washing the dirty matter within our heart. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ stho abhadrāṇi [SB 1.2.17]. Abhadrāṇi. Abhadrāṇi means especially this raja-guṇa and tama-guṇa, this is abhadrāṇi. And sattva-guṇa is bhadrāṇi. Therefore, those who are on the platform of sattva-guṇa, goodness, they are gentlemen. Before coming to the platform of sattva-guṇa, nobody can be gentleman. Gentleman means cool-headed, who can understand things as they are. He is called gentleman. So this abhadrāṇi, in this human society, because these abhadrani, raja-guṇa and tama-guṇa, has increased, practically we can say there is no gentlemen. There is no gentlemen. Because they cannot understand what is life, what is the value of life. Just like the animal cannot understand what is the value of life. Animals, they are generally in tama-guṇa, and some animals in raja-guṇa. Just like lion. Lion is raja-guṇa. And the hog and dog and others, they are in the tama-guṇa. So animals are in the raja-guṇa, tama-guṇa. So the formula is, Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives this formula that if you hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], then Kṛṣṇa will help you in washing the abominable things, raja-guṇa and tama-guṇa. The raja-guṇa and tama-guṇa, if it is washed, then you become situated in sattva-guṇa. You are promoted. But if you are promoted directly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you transcend all the three qualities, tama-guṇa, raja-guṇa, and sattva-guṇa. That is also stated by Kṛṣṇa, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Who? Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Avyabhicāreṇa, not mixed quality, pure. These boys, European and American boys, people admire because they have been given immediately lift to the position of transcendental life. Sa guṇān samatītyaitan [Bg. 14.26]. They have been helped to jump over the transcendental platform. How? Viddhi-bhakti, avyabhicāriṇi-bhakti. Avyabhicāriṇi-bhakti. Vyabhicāriṇi means some day I do something, some day I do not do that. That is called vyabhicāriṇi, not fixed up. But if you follow regularly the rules and regulation, viddhi-bhakti, to rise early in the morning, to offer maṅgala-ārati, then read granthas, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then dress the Deity, then again offer something, in this way that there is regular routine work, that is called viddhi-bhakti. Viddhi, viddhi means he must, he cannot neglect it. Just like your legislative assembly is called Vidhansabha(?). Vidhansabha means whatever is enacted there, you must follow. That is the state order. Similarly, there are rules and regulation which one must follow. Then viddhi-bhakti. As soon as he accepts these rules and regulation and offers Kṛṣṇa service under that rules and regulation, immediately he is in the transcendental platform, immediately.

*Sa guṇān samatītyaitan [Bg. 14.26]. Etan means all these three qualities, tama*-guṇa, raja-guṇa, and sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa is good so far material consideration is there, but that is not perfect. Because from sattva-guṇa, if you are not very strict... Just like we have seen. Sattva-guṇa means the quality of brāhmaṇa. Now the brahminical qualification is now fallen. They are not so very strict following the brahminical principles. So there is chance of falling down. But if you keep yourself on the transcendental platform, aprakṛti, that is, beyond the material world, then there is no falldown. Brahma-bhuyāya kalpate. Falldown there is, if you are neglectful, but generally there is no chance of falldown. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. So you have to situate yourself in the Brahman platform. Brahman platform means pure, uncontaminated by the material qualities. That is called Brahman platform. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. There are many such statements.

*So this is Brahman platform. The brahma*-jñāni, impersonalist, they think simply by coming to the Brahman platform, business is finished now. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. No. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi is there, but what is the duty of the Brahman? That they do not know. Just like again I say the same example. Just like you are going to the moon planet. The so-called aeronautics, they are going, "Now we have come to moon planet." That's nice, but stay there. Unless you stay there, it is useless. It is useless. Actually, they could not stay there. Why they come back? Why they come back? That is either false or they have no qualification to stay there. So who cannot stay in the Brahman platform? The nondevotee. That is stated. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Just like as you go to the moon planet but if you cannot stay there, you must have to come down again to this planet; *similarly, one may rise up to the Brahman platform, paraṁ*-pada, which is called paraṁ-pada, but if you cannot stay there, then again you fall down. Just like many so-called sannyāsīs, they rise to the brahma-pada, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but because they cannot stay there, they come down again to this material world and they are busy for opening hospitals, schools, and philanthropism. My wife, you have left already all this nonsense, you say that this world is mithyā, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. So if you have ascended to the brahma-pada, why you come down again to the mithyā-pada? That means you have no taste. Actually you have not arrived, the same thing. You are going, the so-called advertisement, "I am going to the moon planet," but because you cannot stay there, you come down. So we have to stay there, brahma-pada. That brahma-pada staying means devotional service. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So brahma-pada, you can rise up. But if you do not engage yourself in the service of Bhagavān, then again you come down. āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because they could not engage their service to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, therefore, these so-called sannyāsīs again come down to this material platform and engage their service to the mithyā. Because they rejected this world, mithyā. Why they come down again to this mithyā platform-politics, sociology, humanity-if this is mithyā? But our philosophy is not that... We don't say that this world is mithyā. Why shall I say? It is creation of Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is truth, His creation is also truth. We employ everything to the service of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, anyone who is engaged in the service of the Lord is always situated in the transcendental platform. They will never come down. Because it is so sweet, it is so nice, they will never agree. Any student of this institution, if you ask him, if you try to cheat him that you give up this idol worship, come down, go and worship the poor, the leper, and this and that, so many things, they will not. They will not. They will not come down. They will engage themselves always in the service of the Lord.

Although the atheist class of men may think that they are engaged in idol worship, it is not idol. Those who are atheist, they may see idol, stone. But those who are devotees, they see sākṣād brajendranandana hari. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He entered the Jagannātha temple, as soon as He saw Jagannātha, immediately fainted, "Oh, my Lord, here You are." So it is a question of vision. Somebody is going to Jagannātha temple, he is seeing a wooden carved statue, that's all. And he is surprised, "Why for this wooden carved statue so many people are coming?" Because they are not devotee, they cannot understand. But one devotee, thousands and millions of devotees are going every year. Are they going to worship an idol? So this is the difference between the devotee and the nondevotee. A devotee knows that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everything is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore, they want to employ everything to the service of the Lord, and they remain always blissful, transcendental. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Guest (1): Some yogis harness energies and claim to use these energies to benefit humanity. Is there any value in their work? Is there any real consequence?



Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already explained that they employ their energies but if they do not reach the ultimate goal, Kṛṣṇa, they fall down. There is chance of falling down. Because Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal. So they are employing their energies, that's all right, but they have to employ their energies more and more to approach Kṛṣṇa. If you do not approach Kṛṣṇa, then they fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, if they simply... Just like the same example, just like sunshine. Sunshine is also sun. But if you simply try to remain in the sunshine and don't go to the sun planet or any other planet, then again you come back. So the energy employed for realizing the Absolute Truth is good. But if he does not approach or if he is unable to approach the Supreme, then he will fall down.



Guest (1): Is any knowledge other than ultimate knowledge of the Supreme of any value at all?



Prabhupāda: Any knowledge, there are so many subject matter of knowledge in the material world.



Guest (1): Is this material knowledge of any value?



*Prabhupāda: No. Material is valuable so far your material existence is concerned. That is also not valuable. Because if you try to protect this body by all kinds of knowledge, but it will not stay. And after giving up your this body, you have to accept another body. Then what is the value of material knowledge? This time you may have this human form of body, next time you may not have. Then what is the value of material knowledge? Because you cannot change the order of transmigration of the soul from one body to another. That you have to accept according to your karma. So, therefore, material knowledge will not help me. Therefore they struggle so. You are under the grip of natural laws, daivi hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. Natural, nature's law are very stringent. You cannot interfere with the... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. The prakṛti, the nature, material nature is so strong that you cannot interfere with her business, that is not possible. So your material knowledge will not help you, unless you have got Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge. You can, anyone can understand. Suppose if I want to protect this body with all hygienic principles, soaps and pumice and injection and medicine and so many things, does it mean that you shall live? Can you overcome the laws of nature? No, that is not possible. Can you overcome the laws of nature that you will not fall sick? No, that you cannot. Can you make any material laws or scientific knowledge that you will not become old? No. You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop old age, you cannot stop disease. So what is the value of your material knowledge? And these are the troubles. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Any intelligent man will see that what is the value of my material knowledge? I have to die. I have to be victim of disease and old age. Then what is the value? The best thing is that so long this material body is there, you have got the opportunity to develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do that. That will save you from all dangers. Otherwise, nothing will save you. Simply śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8], simply waste of time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





760215SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.8

-

Māyāpur, February 15, 1976



Dayānanda: Translation: "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued to offer his prayer as follows: How is it possible to offer suitable prayers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead by me, who is born into the family of asuras, because all the demigods and saintly persons could not satisfy Him till now, although such persons are exalted, very qualified, in the mode of goodness. Then what to speak of me? I am not at all qualified."



Prabhupāda:



prahrāda uvāca

*brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ

*sattvaikatāna*-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ

*nārādhituṁ puru*-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ

*kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ

[SB 7.9.8]



*Ugra*-jāteḥ. Ugra-jāteḥ, just like in Europe and America, we see, they are very much fond of ugra-karma, just like big, big factories, big, big bridges, wonderful. Long, long ago when the Britishers came here, they constructed big, big bridges, railway line. People thought, "It is wonderful." There is a song composed in Bihar. So when the Calcutta, the floating bridge made of wood, wooden bridge, floating bridge was constructed, connected Calcutta proper and Howrah, so there was big, wonderful song: ki apana banaylay sahat campani (?). There is song, ki apana banaylay sahat campani upara me ami cale, and..., just like that, nīche me pāni (?).



*So this ugra*-karma, formerly this ugra-karma was entrusted to the demons. Those who were in the sattva-guṇa, they do not like this ugra-karma. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ [SB 1.2.19]. The... Those who are under the control of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, they are engaged in ugra-karma, ugra-karma: industrial enterprise, big, big roads, big, big skyscraper. This is called ugra-karma. So ugra-karma is very pleasing to the ugra-jātis (just like) Hiraṇyakaśipu. What was the trouble between the father and the son? The father was for ugra-karma, and the son, Prahlāda, was for sattvika life. So when Prahlāda Mahārāja engaged himself in sattvika life, not only sattvika, śuddha-sattvika... In the material world there are three guṇas: sattvika, rajasika, tamasika. The sattvika is the best. So, and devotional activity is śuddha-sattvika, where there is no contamination. In the material world, sattvika, a person who is a brāhmaṇa, he may be contaminated by tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. Just like Ajāmila. He was the son of a brāhmaṇa, and he was executing the brahmacarya regulation very nicely, but he became infected with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, became attached to a prostitute and left everything, all brahminical qualification, and he became a rogue, thief, cheater, drunkard, woman-hunter, so on. There are many instances. And Jagāi-Mādhāi, they were born of very good brāhmaṇa family, rich family, but with bad association they became drunkard, woman-hunter, meat-eater. Now these things have become common thing. Avaidha-strī-saṅga, illicit connection with woman, and meat-eating and drinking, it has become a daily fashion. But formerly, at least five hundred years ago, these things were accepted as most abominable. So just like here, our Jagāi-Mādhāi. Jagāi-Mādhāi, they were zamindars and born of brāhmaṇa family, but because by bad association they became drunkard, gamblers and woman-hunters, they were condemned. They were taken as pāpī, sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is to rescue them. That is the song by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura: vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi, pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tare sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. Everyone wants evidence that how Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered pāpī tāpī. Now, here is the instance. Tāre sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that it can deliver the Jagāi and Mādhāi, ugra-karma. That is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He began this. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. Now this same flow is going on in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So ugra-karma.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is considering himself born of a father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, as ugra*-karma. So he's saying, harir ugra-jāteḥ, that the... Brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇa, "Lord Brahmā and other demigods, they are coming from the higher planetary system, and they are in the sattvika guṇa, sattva-guṇa. They are not ordinary person." Just like coming from some pious pilgrimage, he's supposed to be very nice man, similarly, brahmādayaḥ, they are coming from svarga-loka. Why svarga-loka is better than this loka? The thing is, in the svarga-loka, although they are attached to material enjoyment, still, they are great devotees. Therefore svarga-loka is praised. They are not like us. Here, those who are attached to material prosperity, they forget Kṛṣṇa, or God.

*bhogaiśvarya*-prasaktānāṁ

*tayāpahṛta*-cetasām

*vyavasāyātmikā*-buddhiḥ

samādhau nādhigacchati

[Bg. 2.44]



Those who are too much attached for material enjoyment, they do not become attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is natural. So anyway, Prahlāda Mahārāja was doubting because he was requested by Lord Brahmā, "My dear boy, my dear child, we could not pacify His Lordship Nṛsiṁhadeva, but He has appeared for you." Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. "Nṛsiṁhadeva, this wonderful form, is there only for you." Paritrāṇāya. "You are sādhu. For your deliverance Nṛsiṁhadeva has appeared and to kill your sinful father. So business is with your father and yourself. So kindly, you take care of the business. He is very, very angry."



*So before that, we have already described, even Lakṣmījī, he (she) could not go forward. Although she had daily affairs with Nārāyaṇa, she could not dare to go forward. Brahmā, Lord Brahmā offered their prayers, other, Lord Śiva offered their prayers, but nobody could pacify him. Therefore he is in doubt that "I am born in the family of demons," ugra*-karma, ugra-jāti. "If Brahmā failed, Lakṣmījī failed, Lord Śiva failed to pacify Him, how it is possible by me to pacify the Lord?" That he's doubting. Brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇā-munayo 'tha siddhāḥ. "All they are exalted persons and siddha." There is a Siddhaloka. In the higher planetary system there is a planet known as Siddhaloka. If there is opportunity, as we are contemplating, we shall show here in Caitanya-candra, er, Māyāpura-candrodaya temple. That is our plan, to make a very big temple and to show all the planetary system within that from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It will not be an ordinary temple, so that people from the whole world, they'll come. This is our contemplation. There is a Siddhaloka. We shall show how this planet works, Siddhaloka. From the Siddhaloka the persons who came there, they are called siddhya, siddhya. And in the, on the heavenly planet they are called demigods, devatā. Similarly, Siddhaloka... The description of the Siddhaloka is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Those who have read, they know. The Siddhaloka person, they can go from one planet to another without any machine, aeroplane, Siddhaloka. They can go from one planet to another. This is described. They don't require any machines. Still, like the yogis, those who are perfect yogis, they can go from one place to another without any vehicle. There are many yogis still existing. They take bathing in four dhāmas. In Hardwar, in Jagannātha Purī, in Rāmeśvaram and similarly... Yogis can do that. Yogis, they attain asta-siddhi, eight kinds of perfection: animā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, like that, īśitā, vaśitā, like that. So the Siddhaloka means they are born siddhas. They haven't got to practice this mystic yoga system. Just like a small sparrow: it can fly automatically. Why a small sparrow? Even a small insect. But if you want to fly, you have to create so many big machineries. So in that case, in the matter of flying, the small insect or the small sparrow is siddha. You are trying to fly in the sky with so many jets and 747 Jumbo. But a small fly, it can fly immediately, I mean, two miles within some seconds. So they are siddhas. What you cannot do, if other can do, that is called siddhi. So there is no question of disbelieving. We can see so many small insects, birds. They can fly from one tree to another. You cannot do that. If you have to go from one tree to another, you have to take so many trouble . So it is not to be rejected, "Ah, there cannot be any... This is unbelievable." But we have got this information from the śāstras. We are staunch believer: "Yes, there are siddhas." We are believers. That is called theism: one who believes in the statements of śāstra.

*So there are siddhas. So they also came. Sura*-gaṇā, brahmādayaā sura-gaṇā munayaḥ. Muna, muni, great personalities, philosophers, they are called muni, ṛṣi. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṛṇām [SB 11.5.41]. Very highly intelligent persons, thoughtful persons, philosophers, scientists, mathematicians, so they are called also muni. So they came also to satisfy, and not these ordinary munis, but very exalted munis and siddhas from Siddhaloka. There are many lokas, Caraṇaloka, other. They are all described. So if there is chance, we shall present these lokas, how they are situated, where they are situated, how they are moving, how the sun is moving around them. The sun is not fixed up; *sun is moving. So all these things, we have got such dream to show. If there is opportunity, we shall do, the Siddhas, and the sura*-gaṇās and the munayas. But because they are on the planetary system, higher planetary system... There are three planetary systems. One is called higher, ūrdhvaloka, and middle, madhyaloka, bhūr, bhuvaḥ, sva, up to Svargaloka... We are chanting Gāyatrī, om bhūr bhuvaḥ sva tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi. These are praising the lokas, different planetary system, of which the sunlight is the chief. Savitur sakala-grahāṇām. He is the chief of all planets.

*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



The sun is not fixed up; *sun is moving. The modern scientists or astronomers, they say, "Sun is fixed up. The earth is moving." So we don't say that. It is sa... Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakraḥ. It has got its orbit. So there are so many things to be known still from Vedic literature, it is not yet unfolded, but we are trying. Siddhya...



*So, sattvaika. They are sattvaika. They are all. All the inhabitants of the upper planetary system, they are in sattvika*-guṇa, brahminical qualification. They are not mlecchas and yavanas. Brāhmaṇas. Sattvaikatāna-gatayo. They are not ordinary. Just like here the sattvika means pure brāhmaṇa. Śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So most of them are brāhmaṇas or even kṣatriyas. Mostly they are brāhmaṇas. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. You have seen in the Bhagavad-gītā: "Those who are situated in sattva-guṇa, they are promoted to the higher planetary system after death." Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasaḥ: "And those who are in the rajo-guṇa, they remain in the middle planetary system." Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "And those who are in tamasika, in the darkness, ignorance modes of material nature, they go down to the, down planetary system or animal life." So this is an opportunity, this human form of life, to decide where you want to go. Are you going to hell or heaven or back to home, or back to Godhead? That you have to decide. This is human intelligence, not like working like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Human life is meant for to decide where you want to go next. By the evolutionary process you have come to this human form of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. By going through so many, 8,400,000 species of life, you have got this human form of life. Now you decide where you'll go. So where I have to go, how to go, there is that information in the śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuṣaḥ. See through the śāstra where you can go. And the master of the śāstra, Kṛṣṇa, is giving you personally instruction,

*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṛn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*These informations are there. Why you are missing this opportunity? If you like, you can go to the higher planetary system. If you like, you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām. These informations are there.



*So without sattva*-guṇa, if you keep people in the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, then your, their future is lost. Rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, means people will become more greedy and lusty, that's all. And greedy and lusty means cats and dogs, animal life. Animal life. They're trying to eat-no discrimination of eating. So that is hog's life. The hog has no discrimination of eating. It can eat even stool. So the... If you eat, become like hog-no discrimination of eating, whatever you..., just like so many swamis, they say, "Oh, why there is restriction of eating? You can eat anything you like," so nature will give you: "All right, you want to eat anything you like? All right, you become a hog. You eat even stool." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor dehopapatti [SB 3.31.1]. You have to change your body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muḥ... [Bg. 2.13]. You may say that there is no life after, but that is foolishness. You are under the control of material nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*You may falsely be proud. You say, "No, no, I shall not become old man. I shall remain young." But nature will not allow you. Nature will force you to take the old man's body. But these foolish people, they are thinking, "independent." You are not independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Sad-asad, good birth or low-class birth, sad-asad, that is... How it is done? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. As you make association with the guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. If you associate with sattva-guṇa, then you get sad-janma next life. And if you associate with tamo-guṇa, then you get tamo-guṇa life. After death your so much prestigious position, so much proud-everything will be finished. Then you are completely under the laws of nature and you have to accept a body and..., according to your quality. This is the way. But they do not know. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "I am born in ugra-yoni, so how can I offer my prayers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead?" But he was born in the ugra family, but he was devotee. He's qualified because a devotee is neither belonging to any of these material qualities.



māṁ cāvyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he does not belong to any of these material qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān. All these qualities, he is transcendental. Brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate. Prahlāda Mahārāja, although born of a demonic father, he was completely pure. He was completely on the transcendental stage. Therefore he could offer prayers to the Lord; others cannot. So a Vaiṣṇava is very humble. He... Although everyone has admitted that he is on the stage of prema, but he is a Vaiṣṇava. He's thinking that "I am the son of Hiraṇyakaśipu. How I can offer?" This is Vaiṣṇava humbleness. That is the teaching of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*One has to become humbler than the grass and tolerant than the tree. Then he can become perfect Vaiṣṇava. Because as soon as you become a Vaiṣṇava, your father will be your enemy. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. What was his fault? Five*-years-old boy. Simply he became a Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa conscious, and his father became enemy. This is the position.



So Vaiṣṇava has to tolerate in order to make progress in spiritual life so many enemies, Even at home, father will be enemy. So don't be hesitant and don't be agitated by such circumstances. Prahlāda Mahārāja had to suffer so many things. Still, he remained Kṛṣṇa conscious, and ultimately he saw Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva and had the privilege of offering prayers. We shall discuss later on.

Thank you very much. (end)



770228SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.8

-

Māyāpur, February 28, 1977



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Prahlāda Mahārāja prayed: How is it possible for me, who have been born in a family of asuras, to offer suitable prayers to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead? Even until now, all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahmā, and all the saintly persons could not satisfy the Lord by streams of excellent words, although such persons are very qualified, being in the mode of goodness. Then what is to be said of me? I am not at all qualified."



Prabhupāda:



śrī prahlāda uvāca

*brahmādayaḥ sura*-gaṇā munaya 'tha siddhāḥ

*sattvaikatāna*-gatāyo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ

*nārādhituṁ puru*-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ

*kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ

[SB 7.9.8]



*So ugra*-jāteḥ means demonic family, passionate. Ugra. There are three qualities within this material world. Therefore it is said guṇa-mayī. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī [Bg. 7.14]. Guṇa-mayī means three guṇas, three modes of material nature: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. So our mind is jumping. Everyone knows the nature of the mind, sometimes accepting one thing, again rejecting it, saṅkalpa-vikalpa. This is the quality of the mind or nature of the mind. Sometimes the mind is jumping over sattva-guṇa, sometimes on the rajo-guṇa, and sometime on the tamo-guṇa. In this way we are getting different types of mentality. In this way, at the time of death the mentality which is just at the moment of leaving this body will carry me to a different body of sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. This is the way of transmigration of the soul. Therefore we have to train up the mind until we get the another body. That is the art of living. So if you train up your mind simply to think of Kṛṣṇa then you are safe. Otherwise there is chance of accidents. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. At the time of leaving this body, if we have not practiced the mind to fix up at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then there is... [break] A particular type of body we get.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he does not belong to this platform of mental speculation... He is nitya*-siddha. He has no chance because he's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. (loud electrical noise) (aside:) What is that? Sa vai manaḥ... Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. Practice this very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is here. We see the Deity daily and see the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Fix up your mind in that way. Then you are safe. Very simple thing. Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he was also a great devotee. He was king, very responsible person, politics. But he practiced in such a way that he fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. This practice. Don't talk nonsense. (noise again) (aside:) What is the trouble? Take out.

*So mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We can learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly well if we follow the mahājanas. Mahājana means great personality who are devotees of the Lord. They are called mahājanas. Jana means person. Just like in ordinary way, in India a person is called mahājana who is very rich. So this mahājana means one who is rich in devotional service. He is called mahājana. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So we have got Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. We have got Prahlāda Mahārāja. There are many, many kings-Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Parīkṣit Mahārāja*-they are rājarṣi. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness, actually, it is meant for very great personalities.

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Actually, śāstra is not for the loafer class. For highly learned brāhmaṇas and highly elevated kṣatriyas. And the vaiśyas and the śūdras, they are not expected to become very learned in śāstra, but, being directed by proper brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, they are also perfect. The first perfect class, munayo, as it is said, sattvaikatāna gatayo munayo, "Great sages..." Generally, "great sages" means brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇavas. They are situated on the sattva-guṇa by devotional service. Rajas, tamo-guṇa cannot touch them. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. The bhadra and abhadra, good and bad... So the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa is bad, and sattva-guṇa is good. If we are situated, as it is said, sattvaikatāna-gatayo... If you are always situated on the sattva-guṇa, then everything is clear to be done. Sattva-guṇa means prakāṣa. Everything is clear, full knowledge. And rajo-guṇa is not clear. The example is given: just like the wood. There is fire, but the first symptom of fire, wood, you'll find smoke. When you set fire in the wood, first of all smoke comes. So smoke... First of all wood, then smoke, then fire. And from fire, when you engage the fire for fire sacrifice, that is the ultimate. Everything coming from the same source, from earth... The wood is coming from wood, the smoke is coming from smoke, the fire is coming... And fire, when engaged in fire sacrifice-svāhā-then it is proper use of fire. If one stays in the wood platform, that is completely forgetfulness. When one stays in the smoke platform, there is little light. When one is staying in fire platform, then full light. And when the light is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is perfect. We have to understand like that.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava qualification is

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*Vaiṣṇava is always humble, meek and humble. That is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is powerful, but still he is very meek and humble. So here is the sign. Prahlāda Mahārāja is so qualified that immediately Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva put His hand on the head: "My dear child, you have suffered so much. Now be pacified." This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's position*-immediately accepted by the Lord. But he's thinking, "I am so lowborn in the family of passionate family." Ugra-jāteḥ. He's not proud that "Now Nṛsiṁhadeva has touched my head. Ah. Who is like me? I am the greatest personality." This is not Vaiṣṇava. Sanātana Gosvāmī when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he presented himself, nīca jāti nīca karma nīca saṅgī: "I am born of very low grade family, and my duties are also very low grade, and my association are also very low grade." So Sanātana Gosvāmī was born in a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, but because he accepted the service of Muhammadan king, actually he lost his all brahminical culture. He did not lose, but superficially it appeared because he was mixing with the Muhammadans, eating with them, sitting with them, talking with them. But he gave up. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha. He understood, "What I am doing? I am committing suicide." Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that "I am taking poison knowingly." Unknowingly one may take poison, but if knowingly one takes poison, that is very regrettable. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said,



hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,

jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu



So we are trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world, but still, if people do not take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then he is drinking poison knowingly. This is the position. He is drinking poison. That's a fact. It is not that we are imagining something, eulogizing.(?) They are charging us, "Brainwash." Yes, it is brainwash. It is... All the dirty things, stools, are there in the brain, and we are trying to wash them. That is our...



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*The vidhunoti, this word, is there. Vidhunoti means washing. Washing. As you are hearing the message of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad*-gītā, the process is vidhunoti, washing. Actually, it is brainwashing-but for good. Washing is not bad. (laughter) That these rascals, they do not know. They are thinking, "Oh, you are making me purified? Oh, you are very dangerous." This is their... Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye: "To a rascal, if you give good advice, he becomes angry." Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. How is it? Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. A snake-quality man is very dangerous. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said,



sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ

sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ

*mantrauṣadhi*-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ

khalaḥ kena nivāryate



"There are two envious living entities. One is a snake, black snake, and one is a human being with the quality of black snake." He cannot see any good thing. Sarpaḥ krūraḥ. The snake is envious. Without any fault he bites. A snake is there on the street, and if you happen to pass by him he becomes so angry, immediately he bites. So this is the snake's nature. Similarly, there are persons like the snake. Without any fault they will accuse you. They are also snake. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that "This black snake is less harmful than the man snake." Why? "Now, this black snake, by chanting some mantra or by some herb can bring him under your control. But this man snake you cannot. It is not possible."



*So there will be. This Hiraṇyakaśipu is also described by Prahlāda Mahārāja as a snake. When Nṛsiṁhadeva is so angry so he will say later on that modeta sādhur api vṛścika*-sarpa-hatyā: [SB 7.9.14] "My Lord, You were very much angry on my father. Now he's finished, so there is no more reason for Your remaining angry. Be pacified. Nobody is unhappy for killing my father. Be sure. So there is no cause of anguish. These all these demigods, Lord Brahmā and others, they are all Your servants. I am also Your servant's servant. So now the envious snake is killed. Everyone is happy." So he gave this example that modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. A sādhu, a saintly person, never likes killing of any living being. They are not happy... Even a small ant is killed, they are not happy: "Why ant should be killed?" What to speak of others, even a small ant. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. It may be an ant, insignificant, but at the time of death he has suffered. A Vaiṣṇava is unhappy: "Why an ant should be killed?" This is para duḥkha-duhkhi. But such Vaiṣṇava is happy when a snake and a scorpion is killed. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatya. So everyone is happy when a snake or scorpion is killed because they are very, very dangerous. Without any fault they bite and create havoc.

*So there are these snakelike persons. They are envious about our movement, and they are opposing. That is the nature. Prahlāda Mahārāja also was opposed by his father, what to speak of others. These things will happen, but we should not be disappointed, as Prahlāda Mahārāja never became disappointed although he was teased in so many ways. He was also served with poison, he was thrown amongst the serpents and he was thrown from the hill, he was put under the feet of elephant. In so many ways put... Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has instructed us that "Do not be disappointed. Kindly forbear." Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Be tolerant more than the tree. I mean to say, one shall be meek and humble more than the grass. These things will happen. In one life if we execute our Kṛṣṇa consciousness attitude, even there is suffering little, don't mind. Go on with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't be disappointed or hopeless, even there is some trouble. That is encouraged by Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad*-gītā: āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "My dear Arjuna, even if you feel some pain, this bodily pain, it comes and goes. Nothing is permanent, so don't care for these things. Go on with your duty." This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Prahlāda Mahārāja is the practical example, and our duty is to follow the footprints of such person like Prahlāda Mahārāja.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, such an exalted personality, the authority, he is so humble, he says, kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra*-jāteḥ: "I am born in a very ferocious family. Certainly I have inherited the quality of my father, my family, demonic family. And persons like Lord Brahmā and other demigods, they could not satisfy the Lord, and what I shall do?" A Vaiṣṇava thinks like that. Vaiṣṇava, Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he is transcendental, nitya-siddha, he's thinking, identifying himself with his family. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was not entering in the Jagannātha temple. The same thing, five hundred years ago they did not allow anyone except Hindus in the Jagannātha temple. The same thing is still going on. But Haridāsa Ṭhākura never by force entered. He thought himself, "Yes, I am low grade person, born in low grade family. Why shall I disturb the pūjārīs and others who are directly engaged with Jagannātha? No, no." Sanātana Gosvāmī, he did not go near the temple gate. He thought himself, "By touching me, the pūjārīs will be impure. Better I shall not go." But Jagannātha Himself was coming to see him daily. This is the position of devotee. Devotee is very humble. But to prove the devotees' quality the Lord takes care of them. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31].

So we should always depend on Kṛṣṇa's assurance. In any circumstances, any dangerous position, Kṛṣṇa... Avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa viśvāsa pālana. This is surrender. Surrender means... One of the item is full faith in Kṛṣṇa, that "In execution of my devotional service there may be so many dangers, but because I have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, I am safe." This, this faith for Kṛṣṇa.

*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



*Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. Vipadam means dangerous position. Padaṁ padam, every step in this material world*-na teṣām, not for the devotee. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. This is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Even from literary point of view so exalted. So Prahlāda Mahārāja... Just like Kavirāja Gosvāmī. He is writing Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and presenting himself, he says,



purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha

jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha

mora nāma yei laya tāra puṇya kṣaya

[Cc. Ādi 5.205]



*Like that. The author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, he presents himself: "The lighter than the worm in the stool." Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha. And in Caitanya-līlā, Jagāi-Mādhāi, two brothers are supposed to be most sinful, but he has also They were also delivered. Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, "I am more sinful than the Jagāi-Mādhāi."



jagāi madhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha

mora nāma yei laya tāra puṇya kṣaya



"I am so low grade that if somebody takes my name, whatever little pious action is there is lost." In this way he's presenting. And Sanātana Gosvāmī, presenting himself, nīca jāti nīca karma nīca saṅga... They are not artificial. A Vaiṣṇava actually thinks like that. That is Vaiṣṇava. He is never proud of... And just opposite number: "Oh, I have got this. I have got this. Who is equal to me? I am so rich. I am so this and that." That is the distinction.



So we have to learn this tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā and follow the footprint of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Then surely we shall be accepted by Nṛsiṁhadeva, Kṛṣṇa, without any failure.

Thank you very much. (end)



680704SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.9

-

Montreal, July 4, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*manye dhanābhijana*-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

*tejaḥ*-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ

nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso

bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja yūtha pāya

[SB 7.9.9]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja is submitting his humbleness, because he has practically experienced that all great personalities present in that meeting, headed by Brahmā, the original person, original created person, as well as all other demigods, they are all highly qualified, but they could not satisfy the Lord. Therefore he says, "I think that any kind of material qualification, such as tejaḥ, prabhāva, influence, strength, bodily beauty, tejaḥ, prabhāva, pauruṣa, capacity, buddhi, intelligence, yoga, mystic power, and all similar qualifications"*-they are divided into six opulences: strength, influence, fame, and beauty, knowledge, renunciation-"these six kinds of opulences are fully present in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So how you can conquer over the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all these material qualifications?" Suppose if you are going to see some gentleman who is very rich, just like Rockefeller, and suppose you are drawing, say, one thousand dollars per month, or say five thousand dollars. So how we can become proud of your opulence before a very rich man? So Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, means that nobody can excel Him in richness, in fame, in strength, in beauty, in wisdom, and renunciation. However you may exhibit or manifest your opulences, still it is very insignificant. We can practically experience. Just like this very nice city, perhaps the greatest city in the world, New York, with so many skyscraper buildings, industrial enterprises, everything very opulent. But as soon as you go seven miles or eight miles high by airplane, you will see just like they are matchboxes. You have practical experience. And if you still go high you will find this whole planet just like a point. As you are daily experiencing that so many planets in the sky hanging just like small spots, but they are as big or greater than this planet. So nobody can excel the opulence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is not possible. If you want to purchase the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your material acquisition, it is impossible. It is impossible.



*That is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is deriding that manye dhanābhijana rūpa. Abhijana. Abhijana means born in great nation or in great family. Nobody can be proud that "Because I am born of a very rich family and because I am born of a very great, rich nation like America, therefore I can purchase the favor of God." No. That is not possible. Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is not possible. Nārādhanāya bhavanti parasya puṁsaḥ. Parasya puṁsaḥ means the transcendental personality. He excels all personalities. We are all persons. The Lord, Kṛṣṇa, or God, He is also a person, as you are a person, I am a person. He is not imperson. Otherwise how He can be richest, the most famous, the most beautiful? These qualifications are for person. But He is so great, God is so great, His personality is so great that He transcends all personalities. Parasya puṁso. Parasya means transcendental, and puṁso, the person. God is never imperson. Impersonal understanding of the Absolute Truth is the beginning of transcendental knowledge. But if you make further progress, you will find Him the Supreme Person. The Supreme Person... Just like we offer our humble prayers, govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ. He is the original person. In the Bible you will see, "Man is made after God." This feature, this form, is just in imitation of Kṛṣṇa's form. Because Kṛṣṇa has got two hands, because Kṛṣṇa has got two legs, one head, so we are imitation. We are sample God. So just imagine how the original person, the original Personality of Godhead, is opulent, rich, beautiful, famous, so many. All good qualifications, all opulences, are present there.

So with our material acquisition it is not possible to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. How, then, He can be pleased? Now, bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja yūtha pāya. You can simply please the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your transcendental loving service. That's all. If you try, if you learn the art of loving, then you can... He will be just like a playmate with you. Kṛṣṇa is so nice.

*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣam nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*Here is also. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said that adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. Adurlabha means very easily obtained. Durlabha means very difficult to obtain, and adurlabha, just the opposite: very easily obtained. How? Now, ātma-bhaktau: "Those who are devotees of the Lord, for them He is very easily available." So affection is so nice thing. So try to develop your affection. That affection is already there. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa affection is being artificially propagated. Perhaps in this meeting I am the only Indian, but all my students here, they are all Americans. They belong to different faith. How they are developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I am not bribing them, I have no money. But still, why they are so much affectionate? This is the proof that everyone has got dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness within himself. It is not an artificial thing. Simply you have to develop it. It is not taught actually. Just like a young boy or young girl-there is no educational department how to love a young girl or young boy. It is already there. It is not taught. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not the subject matter of being taught. Please try to note this. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a thing as you are taught technology or mathematics or like that. It is already there. Simply we have to revive it. Simply we have to revive it. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti.



*In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it is said that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is eternally existing in every human being, every living entity." Not only human being. You have seen the one picture that a calf, how he is loving Kṛṣṇa by licking His body. You have seen it. So even in the calf, even in the animal, even in the bird, even in the beast. We have described all these things in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya, that when Kṛṣṇa was present in Vṛndāvana, how the cranes, how the cuckoos, how the peacocks, how the walks(?), how the flowers, how the creepers were loving Him. How they were loving Kṛṣṇa. So it is not a thing that we have to teach. Simply by good association, by reference, it comes out. It is called suptotthita-nyāya. Just like a man sleeping at night, he forgets everything, where he is lying on and what he is doing and which family does he belong to, which country does he belong to, what is his occupation. Everything he forgets. Sleeping means forgetfulness. But as soon as he is awakened, he remembers everything. Everything. "Oh, I have to go to office. I have to do this thing. I have to meet such and such person." Everything. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is sleeping in everyone's heart. He is hankering. He is hankering after how to love Kṛṣṇa, but he is being checked up. The māyā is checking him: "Don't try to love Kṛṣṇa. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then you will forget all these material activities." Māyā is speaking.

*smerāṁ bhaṅgi traya paricitaṁ sāci*-vistīrṇa dṛṣṭiṁ

vaṁśī nyastādhara kiśalayam ujjvalāṁ candrakeṇa

*govindākhyāṁ hari*-tanum itaḥ keśi-tīrthopakaṇṭhe

*mā prekṣiṣṭhās tava yadi sakhe bandhu*-saṅge 'sti raṇgaḥ.



*This is a very nice verse composed by Rūpa Gosvāmī, that one friend of one gopī, she is warning, "My dear friend, please do not go that side." "Where?" "In the keśi*-tīrthopakaṇṭhe, on the bank of Keśī-ghāṭa, Yamunā." "Why you are warning me?" "Because there is that boy whose name is Govinda." "What He is doing?" "He is simply smiling, and with His flute, and He is so bright by the rays of the moon that He looks very, very beautiful." "Then? What happens?" "Now, if you go and see Him, then you will forget your engagement with family and friendship and love and everything. Oh. He will absorb everything. So don't go there." She is warning, "Don't go." In other words, Kṛṣṇa is so attractive by His activities, transcendental activities, by His beauty, by His opulence, by His strength, everything... If you read the history of Kṛṣṇa's activities in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are so attractive that one automatically becomes attracted and he forgets all other attraction. This is natural. This is not an artificial. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that once situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will forget all nonsense of this material life.



*So this movement is simply to revive that dormant consciousness. Nothing artificial. And by the grace of Lord Caitanya, it has been made very simple. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. That's all. You haven't got to be very highly educated in the university. You haven't got to exercise in so many yogic process, sitting posture, or hard press your nose, or you keep your head down. Nothing. No labor. Simply come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. This very simple method will revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You know, all, that two years ago in 1966 I started this class alone. I was chanting only. That's all. That was my whatever you call. And these boys and girls, gradually they came, and they became attracted. I did not teach them any artificial method of yoga practice, but simply I requested them, "You chant and hear." So very easy process. You can revive your dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness simply śravaṇādi śuddha*-citte karaya udaya. The process is that as you go on chanting, then all the dirty things within your heart will be cleansed. Simply we want to cleanse. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended this chanting, and He has said that the result of chanting will be, the first installment of your gain will be, that your heart will be cleansed. The first thing, which is being tried by the so many mental speculators, how to cleanse the heart, that will be achieved in the first installment by simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpanaṁ [Cc. Antya 20.12].

*And as the cleansing process of your heart makes progress, then you become freed from the blazing fire of material existence. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpanaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ. And then again, just like in the moonlight, daily, the moon increases the light. When the moon is rising daily in the bright fortnight, daily you see that the moon is increasing in shape. So this, that very example, is said here also. As soon as your heart is clean and you immediately you become freed from all material contaminations, then your real pleasure on the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness increases in the proportion. As the moon increases in the sky daily, and as one day it becomes the full moon, so this process is so nice that increasing daily by chanting, one day it will come that you will simply love Kṛṣṇa and forget everything. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpanaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And so far knowledge is concerned, you will get it automatically. You will get all knowledge. Our material conditional life is simply due to ignorance, and when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the full moonlight of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all knowledge, will be at your feet. Everything you will know. Vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam. And ānandāmbudhi-vaṛdhanaṁ: then you increase the ocean of transcendental bliss. The ocean. The ocean never increases, but the transcendental ocean of bliss increasing daily, daily, and you enjoy it. Ānandāmbudhi-vaṛdhanaṁ sarvātma-snapanaṁ. Sarvātma-snapanaṁ. Just like when you take your shower bath or a dip into the ocean, you feel fully comfortable, similarly, by taking your dip into the ocean of bliss of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will feel fully refreshed, fully refreshed, without any doubt. Paraṁ vijayate śri-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Therefore Lord Caitanya gives, "All glories to the saṅkīrtana movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa."

So this is the process. God not dead. God cannot be dead. This is all foolishness. God is there. How you can conceive, how you can perceive that God is not dead? There is sufficient symptom that God is not dead. Just like your body. If you are breathing, if your bodily functions are working nice, if there is blood, and if you are feeling, thinking, willing nicely, will the doctor say that you are dead? No. He will say, "No. All the symptoms of life are present there, so he is not dead. He is alive." Similarly, if you have got that talent to test how God is alive, that is very simple. The whole cosmic manifestation, the whole gigantic body of God is working so nicely. The sun is rising in time, the moon is rising in time, the seasonal changes are taking place in time, the planets are moving. Everything is in order. How you can say that God is dead? What is your reason? No. God is not dead. God is alive, and you can meet also God because He is a person and you are a person. Just like here, if you try, you can meet the greatest personality of this material world, say, the president. It is not difficult. You have to simply arrange your meeting. Similarly, you can meet God face to face, just we are meeting here face to face. Simply you have to make arrangement. That's all.

*And this is the arrangement*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you make this arrangement complete, then you will see God face to face. Not only that, that you will see God face to face after this life. No. Even in this life also you will see God face to face. Premāñjana-cchurita. And what is that qualification? The qualification is love. Simply you are loving so many things. That is not giving you satisfaction. You try to develop your love which is already dormant in you, and when you are efficient in loving God, you will see God face to face. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. The Brahma-saṁhitā says that those who have developed love of God and smeared the eyes with the ointment of love, but by that ointment the sight of your eyes, the material eyesight, will be clear. Just like you sometimes apply medicine on your eyes to see clear, similarly, there is a process to make your eyesight clear to see God. That's all. Not that stop seeing, but clear the eyesight. Purify your senses. That is called bhakti. Bhakti means the process of purifying the senses. That's all. And as soon as your senses are purified, transcendentalized, you see God face to face.

*Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva [Bs. 5.38]. Sadaiva means constantly, without any cessation, you can see God always, everywhere. Everywhere. Sthāvara jaṅgame dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti. You will see tree, but you will not see the tree; *you will see there Kṛṣṇa. You will see a bird, but you will see there Kṛṣṇa. That stage will come. Premāñ... When your loving spirit is developed fully like the full moon, then in the full moon night, as you can visualize the whole city, similarly, by raising yourself to the platform of loving service of Kṛṣṇa, you will see God face to face. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti yaṁ śyāmasundaram [Bs. 5.38]. That God is Śyāmasundara. This Kṛṣṇa is called Śyāmasundara. Śyāma means blackish, but He's very beautiful, very, very beautiful. Śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ. Acintya means inconceivable. His qualities, His transcendental qualities, are inconceivable. When in the Vedic literature it is said that God is quality-less, nirguṇa, nirguṇa means He is transcendental to these material qualities. But His transcendental qualities are there. So He is called that acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ govindam. We just offer our prayers, three verses only from this Brahma-saṁhitā, before our this recitation of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That Govinda is the original Personality of Godhead, and Śyāmasundara, with a flute in His hands, and He is very (sic:) pastimious, always smiling. And by His smiling He offers you blessings. You also, by seeing His smiling, you remain everlastingly smiling. It is so nice.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that the Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot be satisfied by your material opulences. That is not possible. You cannot excel Him. However you may be great in material science, knowledge, opulence, economic development, or everything, but if you want to see God, then you have to accept this process, bhakti. In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same thing affirmed. Not only in the Bhagavad-gītā*-in all Vedic scriptures the same thing is affirmed. Simply if you want to see God, if you want to make your relationship with God, then it is bhakti. And our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is not for proselytizing, that "You are Christian. You become Hindu," or "You are Hindu. You become Christian," or "You are Muhammadan. You..." No. We don't recommend in that way. You remain in your religious faith, but we simply request you that you develop your love of God. That's all. We want to test your religion capacity-how much you have developed your love of God. That's all. We do not want to see how, what kind of rituals and performances you are doing. Phalena paricīyate. We want to see the result, how much you have tried or how much you have developed your love of Godhead. That's all. That is the Bhāgavata recommendation. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: [SB 1.2.6] "That is the first-class type of religious principles by which one can develop his dormant love of God." That's all. If you are not developing your love of Godhead, simply following the rituals, the Bhāgavata says, śrama eva hi kevalam: [SB 1.2.8] simply laboring, simply wasting your valuable time. That's all. Don't waste your time. You have got very precious life in this human form of existence. Don't waste your time. Just try to increase your love of Godhead. That is the perfection of your life.

Thank you very much. Any questions? Yes?

Guest: Could you explain further, purification of the senses? You said that you had to purify your senses before you can see God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in a diseased condition of your eyes you cannot see. In diseased condition of your hands you cannot touch. In diseased condition of your legs you cannot walk. All your senses, in diseased condition, cannot work. Similarly, in material diseased condition you cannot understand what is God. You have to cure yourself from this diseased condition. Then you will see, you will touch, you will perceive, you will know, you will feel*-everything. Those who are unable to cure the disease, they want to kill. Just like a patient is suffering in very bad type of disease. The physician cannot kill, then..., cannot cure him, then he thinks, "Let me die. Let me commit suicide." So this voidism or impersonalism is a symptom of frustration, not being able to cure the disease. But actually, the living entity is eternal. Just like a rascal or foolish man thinks that "I am suffering so much. Let me commit suicide, and it will be a great relief." It is foolishness. He will be put into further torture after this life. He will become a ghost. So because they do not know that living creature is eternal, therefore they want to make the ultimate solution as void, zero. But it cannot be zero. It is not possible, because you are eternal. Therefore you have to cure. And that curing process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (aside:) Ṛṣi Kumar? Why you are there? Come here. (chuckles) All right. Any other questions? Yes, try to understand nicely. Yes.



Devotee: Does sundara, like "Gaurasundara," that sundara means beautiful?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Sundara means, the Sanskrit word sundara, means very beautiful. Śyāmasundara, Gaurasundara. Sundara means beautiful. Yes?



Devotee: Kṛṣṇa is black? Sometimes He's depicted as blue.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is bluish. Kṛṣṇa's color is the sky. When you see the clear sky, bluish sky, are you not very happy? "Oh, today is very nice day, blue sky." Especially in this country, when the sky is always overcast with cloud. So why you appreciate the color of the sky so much? That is Kṛṣṇa's color. Kṛṣṇa's body, there is a ray, brahmajyoti. That brahmajyoti is reflected in the sky. That brahmajyoti is outside this material sky, but that is being reflected. Therefore the sky's color, it appears bluish. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudādhi vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, "On account of distribution of the rays of His body, the brahmajyoti, there are generation of innumerable universes." So all these universes-this is one of the universes-they are in that brahmajyoti, and that brahmajyoti is being reflected in the sky, and sky is so beautiful. So how much beautiful is Kṛṣṇa, just we can imagine. Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is the rays of the sun planet, and in the sun planet there is sun-god. So if sunshine is so pleasing, just imagine how the sun*-god is pleasing. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's jyoti, brahmajyoti, is so important. Then just imagine how Kṛṣṇa's beauty is appreciated in transcendental world. Yaṁ śyāma-sundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbudha-sundarāṅgam. Barhāvatāmsam asitāmbudha. His color is compared with the blackish cloud, asitāmbudha, sundarāṅgam, but very, very beautiful.



So we can chant again. (end)



680706SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.9

-

Montreal, July 6, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*manye dhanābhijana*-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

*tejaḥ*-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogaḥ

nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso

*bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja*-yūtha-pāya

[SB 7.9.9]



Prahlāda Mahārāja, considering himself born in the lowest, atheistic family, he thinks that "When Brahmā and other big demigods failed to satisfy the Nṛsiṁhadeva, how it is possible for me? I am neither born in a very scholarly family or devotee's family." Because a devotee is supposed to take birth in the family of a brāhmaṇa or very rich king or princely order or mercantile family. But Prahlāda Mahārāja was born in a very rich family, and his father was also brāhmaṇa. And so... But unfortunately, his father was atheist. Therefore, in spite of his becoming born in the brāhmaṇa family, he was designated as demon, daitya.



*So because Brahmā and other demigods asked Prahlāda Mahārāja to pray, therefore he is suggesting, he is guessing that "Material qualification is no assessment for approaching the Lord." He says that manye, "I think." Manye, "I think," dhana. Dhana means wealth. Abhijana. Abhijana means to take birth. Śrīdhara Swami says abhijana means sat*-kule janma, to take birth in high family, in brāhmaṇa family, in rich family. And rūpam, sundarya, śrutam, saundarya. Rūpa means beauty, and śrutam means education. Ojaḥ, indriya-naipuṇyam. Ojaḥ means power of sense. A man who can use his senses very nicely, he is called ojaḥ. Just like the vultures. The vulture, he can go three, four miles up, but he can see... From that four miles away, he can see whether there is a carcass. So simply by sense power one does not become very great. The example is this: although this creature, vulture, has gone very high... We are human being. We cannot see three, four miles away anything. So sense power... There are different animals who have got different kinds of sense power. Just like dogs. They can smell..., from distant place they can smell whether somebody, outsider, is coming, and he will at once begin barking. Similarly, there are fishes. They have got power of touch. The small fishes can understand that a big fish is coming from miles of distance simply by touch, by connection with water. So the sense power or living power... Suppose if somebody thinks that "I am living for a hundred years," you are living for hundred years, but you go in the forest. You will find one tree is living for seven thousand years. So these powers, by sense power, by your strength of money or by education... Everything is described. Or aristocratic birth, and tejaḥ. Tejaḥ means luster of the body, kānti. Tejaḥ and prabhāva, pratāpa, influence. Balam means bodily strength. Suppose you are Sandoz. You have got very good... Just like in your country there are some box fighters, very strong and stout. That is called balam. Pauruṣam, udyama. Udyama means industrious. Just like a very poor man, he becomes by his energy very, very rich man. There are many instances in the world. That is called pauruṣam. Buddhi. Buddhi means intelligence, prajñā. And yoga. Yoga means aṣṭāṅga-yoga, the eightfold practice of yoga system.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "All these qualifications are not good assessment for approaching the Supreme Personality of Godhead." He is nullifying. Do not think that because you have got good education or scientific knowledge, then you can understand what is God. That is not possible. Just like the other day we were, I was reading one magazine. In the Bible it is said that God said "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Similarly, in the Bhagavad*-gītā also, we understand that Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca: [Bg. 7.4] "These eight gross and subtle material elements, they are My differentiated energy." So these statements of Bible or Bhagavad-gītā... We can understand that God created this cosmic manifestation. But in the paper we read the other day that the scientific men believe that there was a chunk in the beginning, and all of a sudden it burst out and the planets came out. [break] So anyone can understand that God is all-powerful. He can create. But the scientist says that "There was a chunk, and creation took place from the chunk." Just see. When you say that God created, one can understand that God is... If a man can create such nice things, skyscraper buildings, very complicated bridge, engineering work, so God is great, He may have greater brain, so He has created this cosmic manifestation. There is a, I mean to say, standard to believe. But how the scientists believe that there was a chunk? And what is the explanation? I cannot understand. From the chunk everything come out. And who made the chunk? The next question should be that "Wherefrom this chunk came?" There is no answer. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that all these material qualification cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*Now, how God is satisfied? Ete dhanādaya dvādaśāpi guṇāḥ parasya puṁsaḥ ārādhanāya na bhavanti. You cannot purchase God by your all these material acquisitions. No. That is not possible. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: [Bg. 18.55] "One can understand Me simply by devotional service." Nobody can understand. Bhaktyā mām. What is that bhakti? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate param

[Bg. 18.54]



*When one is very advanced in knowledge, brahma*-bhūtaḥ... Brahma-bhūtaḥ means one who has understood the Brahman, the Supreme. And a brāhmaṇa means brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who has advanced to such knowledge. Therefore in India it is said that a brāhmaṇa is addressed as paṇḍitajī. Not paṇḍitajī like our late Jawaharlal Nehru. Paṇḍitajī means one who knows Brahman. Therefore brāhmaṇa's title is paṇḍita. And a kṣatriya's title is ṭhākura saheb, mahārāja. Not mahārāja-ṭhākura saheb. And a vaiśya's title is sethjī, and a śūdra's title is chowdari. There are respectable terms for the different classes of men. So this bhakti, it is not simply sentiment, but it is to understand actually what is God. It is science of God. Otherwise how it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā? One who has understood the Supreme, the Absolute, he is called brāhmaṇa, brahma-bhūtaḥ. And the symptom is that... How can I understand that he is a brāhmaṇa and has understood Brahman? The immediate answer is brahma-bhūtaḥ. The test is, one who is completely in knowledge of Brahman, the symptom will be prasannātmā: he will be always cheerful. There is no question of anxiety for him. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. There is no lamentation; *there is no desire. That is brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage. There is no desire.



*Even a hundred years, or, say, about 150 years before, there was in Bengal there was a nice king, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa Chandra. He went to a learned brāhmaṇa, and he wanted to help him, that "Can I help you?" So the brāhmaṇa says, "Oh, I don't require any help. Oh, I am very happy. I have got this tamarind tree. My wife takes some tamarind leaves and makes some soup, and some of my disciples give me some rice. So I have got everything, plenty. Why shall I take your help?" Formerly the brāhmaṇas, real brāhmaṇas, they refused to take any charity from others, even up to this date, because according to Vedic system, when charity was to be given, it is to be given to the brāhmaṇas or the sannyāsīs. That is real charity. Datavyam. They should be given. Because they are always engaged in Brahman, therefore charity given to a brāhmaṇa or a sannyāsī goes to Brahman. That is the idea. At the present moment the advertisement is daridra, daridra-nārāyaṇa: "Charity should be given to the daridra, or the poor." But the Vedas, why they recommended that charity should be given to the brāhmaṇas? And the brāhmaṇas, they do not require. They are so satisfied, but still, people persisted: "The brāhmaṇas should take some charity," because the idea is, if the brāhmaṇas accept the charity, that money goes directly to Brahman, or God. That is the idea. So brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When one is situated in that position, that he has no lamentation, no demand, no anxiety, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. And next, by becoming into brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, what are other symptoms? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "Oh, he is equal to everyone." Then, when one has attained this perfection of life, then he can execute devotional service. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. And by that devotional service, one can understand what is God.

*In other place also in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Now what is siddhi, perfection? Siddhi means this perfection, brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. No hankering, no lamentation. That is called siddhi, perfection. This hankering and the full of anxiety, this is materialistic. This is materialistic. In comparison to other animals... They have no anxiety, but human being, they have advanced a type of civilization that everyone is in anxiety, always full of anxiety. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says in another place that this anxiety is due to acceptance of the false, material civilization. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. They have accepted a type of civilization which is asat. Asat means which will not exist. Therefore they are always full of anxiety.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says the same thing in a different way, that the Supreme Personality of Godhead can be worshiped or satisfied by a devotee, not by others. In other place also the Lord says,

patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

tad ahaṁ bhaktyā upahṛtam

aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ

[Bg. 9.26]



He said that "Anyone who offers Me a little flower, a little fruit, a little water, with devotion..." This is the real thing. Because God is so great, He is supplying foodstuff. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. "He is supplying all necessities of life to millions and trillions of living creatures, and He is asking me a little flower and little fruit and little water? He is begging? Is He a beggar?" No. The real thing is yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: "One who gives Me in devotional love." So God is always anxious of your love, not your material things. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has described that as somebody offers you very nice, palatable dishes, varieties of foodstuff, but unfortunately, if you have no appetite, these are all useless because you cannot eat, there is no appetite, similarly, you can make a show of offering so many things to God, but if you have no devotional love, that is not accepted. That is not accepted because God is not poor. He is not begging from you.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says the same thing: bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja*-yūtha-pāya. These material acquisitions, wealth, education, beauty, and so many other things which is very much evaluated in the material world, they are not qualifications for satisfying the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but bhakti. Bhaktyā tutoṣa. The example is that there was an elephant who was in danger. He was being dragged by an alligator in the water, and he prayed to Lord Viṣṇu, and he was saved. The example is that the elephant was not even human being. He was animal, but still, because he prayed to the Lord with devotion, so Lord immediately came to save him. This is the recommendation of all the Vedic scriptures. So bhaktyā tutoṣa. You can satisfy simply by your love. Bhaktyā means bhakti. Bhakti means bhaja sevayā. Bhakti... Simply you have to develop your service attitude. Service attitude is already there. We are servants by constitution, but we are serving māyā. We are so constitutionally servant that after very, very high education, taking all these degrees, oh, we are moving door to door, that "Give me some service." So this service is my constitutional position, but I am serving my lust, my greediness, kāma. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās. We are serving actually, but instead of serving God, we are serving kamādi, our lust, our greediness, our senses. In one word we are serving our senses. So the position is there, but when you turn that service spirit to God, that is your success of life. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās. Dictated by the lust, by kāma, by serving kāma, we sometimes do something which is very, very, abominable. Just don't you see the fight? The Pope says that "You cannot use contraceptive method. It is sinful." But actually people are doing that because dictated by kāma, lust. It is actually very sinful, it is brūṇ-hatyā, murder. So how you can be that happy by continually committing murders? It is not possible. Therefore every religion, the contraceptive method will never be supported. It is brūṇ-hatyā mahā-pāpa, according to Vedic literature. So they are now proposing that you cannot use contraceptive devices, but people have become mad after lust. They must use. They are putting the population theory, but I don't believe in it. The population theory, that "Population is increasing; therefore it should be stopped by contraceptive method," Malthus's theory, in economics, they are following that. But actually there is no such problem, because if we understand from Vedic literature, from Upaniṣad, it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) "That Supreme Personality of Godhead is one, and the living creatures are many, many, without any number." Asaṅkhya: you cannot count how many living entities are there. So both of them are eternal, God and the living entity, nityo nityanānām. Cetanaś cetanānām. Cetana means living. So He is also a living entity, God, and we are also living entities. But what is the difference? That eka, eka, that one singular number living entity, or Kṛṣṇa, or God, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, He is supplying all the necessities of other living entities. So how there can be any population problem if God is supplying everything?

But there is restriction. How there is restriction? When people become godless, there is restriction of supply. Just like practical experience. I am saying from my practical experience that in my childhood I saw that India was exporting millions of tons of rice and wheat and other grains also, oil seed grains, huge export business. That India is now begging grains from other countries. You see. Why? Because they are gradually becoming godless. The population theory I don't believe, because if Kṛṣṇa is supplying, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān... And actually we find that there is no population problem. Amongst the animals, amongst the birds, there is no contraceptive method. They are increasing their population, and they are being fed by God. So why in the human society the population theory is so acute? Because they are becoming less than animals. The animals, they beget, they mate at a certain period, but a human being, at the present moment, they have no such restriction. Any time. Therefore they want contraceptive method.

*So this godless civilization is so acute that it is very difficult to make them understand God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But still, as a matter of duty, we have to present, submit, these teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam because we are following the teachings of Lord Caitanya, who wanted. He said that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. All over the world in all the cities and all the villages, everywhere this philosophy of harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā [Cc. Ādi 17.21], this philosophy should be preached. And He also stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that,

bhārata bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*He has ordered all Indians, manuṣya janma. All Indians means those who have taken birth as human beings. Janma sārthaka kari. This is very important. The Indians, they have got the opportunity of making their life successful because the spiritual knowledge, the spiritual treasurehouse, is there in India. So janma sārthaka kara para*-upakāra. First of all you learn yourself what is Vedic knowledge, what is spiritual life, and go and distribute to the rest of the world, para-upakāra. They are suffering. This is the mission of Lord Caitanya.



*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



That is the order. In this old age I have come to your country. Why? Because we are trying to follow the footprints of Lord Caitanya; *therefore we have come. Otherwise, in old age who goes out of home? Nobody goes. And anyway, it is our duty to present. What is that presentation? The presentation is yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa, very simple thing. You haven't got to manufacture anything. Just like there are many swamis, they come from India, but they manufacture something. But we have no power to manufacture. We simply present what is ordered by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He has ordered, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Whomever you meet, you simply present the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." And this instruction of Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavad-gītā. And what is that Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Just be surrendered to Kṛṣṇa; be Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is... So everything is there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. And simply by strictly following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu everyone can become the spiritual master. Spiritual master means who is strictly following the orders of his superior. He is spiritual master. Spiritual master does not mean that he has got four hands or eight legs or three heads. No. One who is strictly following the orders of his predecessor, he is spiritual master. Just like Arjuna was told by Kṛṣṇa that "This system, paramparā system, disciplic succession of spiritual masters, is now lost." Sa kālena yogo naṣṭaḥ: "That yoga, that system of yoga is now lost. Therefore I am making you again My disciple."



*So if you follow the instruction, although you are not present before Kṛṣṇa, if you follow the instruction of Arjuna or a faithful servant of Kṛṣṇa, then you understand. What was spoken to Arjuna, you can also understand. It is not very difficult. Prahlāda Mahārāja also is speaking in that capacity because he is also a disciple of Nārada. So he is saying, bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja*-yūtha-pāya. These material acquisitions are no good for understanding Kṛṣṇa or God. Simply you become a devotee. And how devotional attitude becomes elevated? That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā and all Vedic literatures, especially in Bhāgavatam, that ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. By your material senses you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Nāmādi: the first beginning of understanding Kṛṣṇa is to understand His name. This is the beginning of bhakti. Nāma ādi. Nāma, the name, should be the first. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Because immediately we can understand what is the form of God, how does He look. It is very..., not immediately. But this nāma we can hear. Kṛṣṇa has given us the capacity that as soon as somebody chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, even a small child can hear. Oh, he... They imitate. Now we go on the road, and the small children, they say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Nāma is so strong that the boys, they also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is so easy. We have seen it. The small children immediately, they clap, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." And some of our students' children, in Buffalo they are dancing, in San Francisco. I received recently one letter from the mother of my disciple. He (she) wants to instruct his two children, other two children. So it is so nice. It doesn't require any material acquisition. Simply God has given you this nice apparatus, ear. Simply you hear Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*So bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja*-yūtha pāya. Yathā kevala-bhaktyaiva gajendrāya tuṣṭuyavaḥ (?). The example is Gajendra, the elephant. It was not even a human being. Now, how he satisfied? You have seen that picture of, that... Here I don't find that picture in my apartment, that a calf is by the side of Kṛṣṇa, and it is trying to lick up the body of Kṛṣṇa like this, and Kṛṣṇa is embracing immediately. What this animal has got? No education, no strength, no beauty-nothing of the sort. Simply he has got the feeling: "My Lord, I love You." That's all. Bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya. So this is the universal form of spiritualism, the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone... It is practical. All my students here in the Western world, America and Canada and other parts, none of them are either Hindus or Indians. I think I have... I have got only one or two Indian disciples in these parts. And all of them, they are foreigners. They belong to foreign religion. They belong to foreign country. How they are understanding? Do you mean to say these educated boys are dancing and chanting without understanding? Are they fools? No. They are realizing bhaktyā, because they have adopted the means of bhakti. Bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya.

*So this bhakti is open for everyone. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. It doesn't matter whether he is born a Hindu or brāhmaṇa or nonsense or heathen. Doesn't matter. Simply if he takes the path seriously, then te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim: he attains the highest perfection of life. Simply one has to follow. The same thing is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Prahlāda Mahārāja also is confirming here, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham: "My dear Lord, I think a śvapacam, śvapacaṁ variṣṭham..." Śvapaca means... Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Śvapaca. Śva means dog, and pacati, one who cooks dog. That means for eating purpose. They are called caṇḍālas, dog-eaters. In India still, in the Assam side, there are still dog-eaters. They enjoy kukurrpita. Kukurrpita. They make a kind of cake by burning a dog. So they are called śvapaca. Śvapaca means dog-eaters. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutāt. Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha pādāravinda-vimukhāt. A brāhmaṇa who has got full qualification, twelve qualification, satya-śamo-damas-titikṣa ārjavaṁ kṣanti, jñāna-vijñānam āstikyam... Brāhmaṇa means very qualified, a first-class man, all qualified. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "If a brāhmaṇa, even though he is qualified with all the twelve qualities, but if he is not a devotee, then I think a caṇḍāla who is born of a family of dog-eaters, if he is devotee, he is variṣṭham. He is glorious. He is glorious." Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. That is the opinion of all great sages. There are many such passages. Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Caṇḍālo 'pi dvija-śreṣṭhā hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ.

*So one has to become, because this devotion is from the spiritual platform. It is not the material consideration. Material consideration is that personal beauty, personal strength, wealth, education. These are all material. But when there is bhakti, this is from spiritual platform. The spiritual platform, the spirit soul has no connection with these material qualifications. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Even though a brāhmaṇa has got all the qualifications..." They are all, after all, material qualifications. The brāhmaṇas means they are situated in the modes of material goodness, the kṣatriya means they are situated in the quality of material passion, the vaiśya means they are situated in the mixed quality of passion and ignorance, and a śūdra means who is situated in the material quality of the modes of ignorance. And those who are less than that, the śūdras, they are called caṇḍālas or śvapaca. So a brāhmaṇa is estimated the high*-class man. Why? That is also materially estimation. But if he has no devotion to the Lord, then that is... That means he has no spiritual qualification. Then a person who is born in the family of dog-eaters, if he has got this bhakti, spiritual qualification, he is more than that.

*viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha

*pādāravinda*-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham

*manye tad*-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ



"Because that person, although he is born in a caṇḍāla family, because he becomes a devotee, he can deliver his forefathers. But the person who is simply puffed up, born in high family, he cannot deliver himself, what to speak of others." He cannot deliver even himself, and what to speak of others.



So this verse we shall discuss next meeting. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Any questions? [break] ...very good, but it has got a good sound also. Yes? [break]



Haṁsadūta: ...kāma artha and mokṣa are the four goals of life, but otherwise there wouldn't be any description of the four goals of...



*Prabhupāda: Please stop. Dharma*-artha-kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Then what is your next question? Because they are already godless, the world is already sick. What is the purpose of dharma? Dharma, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. Paro dharma means the highest quality dharma. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. The purpose of dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa means to come to this platform of bhakti. The Bhāgavata says that,



*dharma*-svanuṣṭitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viśvaksena kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*The purpose of dharma artha kāma is to come to the platform of bhakti. If one does not come to that platform, simply as a matter of formula and rituals, the Bhāgavata says, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Why Prahlāda Mahārāja says that viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha pādāravinda-vimukhāt? That is very good, to be in the platform of goodness, but you have to make further progress. Goodness is not perfection, because this world is so that even in the platform of goodness there is passion and ignorance. It is not unmixed. Sattva, sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa is the goodness. So one has to transcend the platform of goodness. That is called śuddha-sattva. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, traiguṇya-viṣaya-veda nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna: "My dear Arjuna, so far the Vedic injunctions are concerned, they are material, traiguṇya." Somebody is in goodness, somebody is in passion, somebody is in ignorance. Therefore the division is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. "But," He advised him, nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna, "just transcend to the three qualities of this material nature." That transcendental position is this bhakti. So unless one comes to the platform of bhakti, simply by dharma artha kāma mokṣa will not give him the highest perfection. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, therefore, begins with this understanding: dharma projjhita-kaitavo 'tra. Kaitava means cheating. Cheating. So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the so-called religiosity, which is more or less cheating, is projjhita, prakṛṣṭa-rūpena ujjhita, is completely swept over. So dharma artha kāma mokṣa is not the highest perfection. Generally, people, they take to religiosity for material gain, artha, dharma, artha. And material gain means to satisfy the senses, kāma. And when they are frustrated in satisfying the senses, they then want mokṣa. So after keeping in mokṣa, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā... Mokṣa means this world is false, and Brahman is satya. But because he has no Brahman engagement, therefore, even after leaving everything to search out Brahman, he comes again back to this material world for philanthropy work, for feeding the poor, for hospitalization. So this is coming and going, coming and going, coming and going. So real status of perfection is that you have to transcend even this position of mokṣa. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. The Śrīdhara Swami, a great commentator on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he says, atra mokṣa, mokṣābhisandhy api nirastam: "Oh, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is above the idea of liberation." So unless we come to that point, pañcama puruṣārtha, fifth dimension... The dharma, first, the artha, second, kāma, third, mokṣa, fourth, and devotion is the fifth, fifth platform. Adhokṣaja, adhokṣaja. There are different stages of understanding: pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparakṣa, adhokṣaja, aprakṛta. The ordinary understanding, direct perception, is called pratyakṣa. Now, higher than the pratyakṣa understanding is parokṣa, means to gather knowledge from the higher authorities. And above that, aparokṣa, realization. And above that, adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond the understanding of these material senses. And above that, there is aprakṛta, completely transcendental. So the bhakti is on the transcendental platform, beyond the adhokṣaja. [break]



Devotee (1): Is it all right to desire Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only desire you should have. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada-pañcarātra]. If your desire is only concentrated on Kṛṣṇa... Just like the calf. He came to Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa, I want You. That's all." And Kṛṣṇa embraces. That's all. If you simply want Kṛṣṇa, that is all perfection. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. If you have simply accepted Kṛṣṇa, there is no need of any more austerities or penances and knowledge. You have taken the real thing. And nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And if you have not come to that stage, to accept Kṛṣṇa, then all your energy wasted in so-called penance and religion and*-all spoiled. So if you actually began to love Kṛṣṇa, it is very nice. [break]



Woman: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Simply by loving Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy. You love here, there so many. You just try to love Kṛṣṇa and stay in transcendental state. Love is there, but we are misplacing our love. That is our folly. Place that love to Kṛṣṇa. You haven't got to learn how to love. You know. Everyone knows. So you place that love to Kṛṣṇa, and you are always... In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,



māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*"Anyone who is always engaged in unalloyed devotional service," sa guṇān samatītyaitān, "he has already transcended all the material qualities." Brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate: "He is on the path of becoming Brahman." Brahman means transcendental stage. So simply by engaging yourself in devotional service, immediately you come to the Brahman platform. Immediately. All these boys who are engaged in the..., they are on the Brahman platform. They are not on the platform dharma artha kāma mokṣa. They have already transcended. Yes?



Guest (2): You questioned about contraception method, not the birth. The world is not composed not entirely of brāhmaṇas. There are śūdras, too, who are oriented exclusively towards kāma. Now they are śūdras because they are śūdras, because they are not anything else. Well, but they receive medical care as if they were brāhmaṇas.



Prabhupāda: But do you mean to say śūdras should be allowed to kill? Law, the state law, does allow that "He is a śūdra. He is a lower class of man. Let him commit murder, and the law will not be applicable to him"? Does it mean? This contraceptive method is equivalent to commit murder. So either you are śūdra or a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya, but it doesn't matter. If you commit murder, then you are putting yourself in difficulties.



Guest (2): Is it true that in India śūdras are kept more leniently than brāhmaṇas are?



Prabhupāda: No. No. Why?



Guest (2): I just wondered.



Prabhupāda: No. The law does not ask, "Are you brāhmaṇa or are you śūdra?" But according to Vedic system, rather, brāhmaṇas are treated very leniently because they are not so sinful. Just like Aśvatthāmā. He happened to be a brāhmaṇa, and he committed a great sin, killing the five innocent... (end)





760216SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.9

--

Māyāpur, February 16, 1976



Dayānanda: "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued to offer his prayers as follows: I consider that a person who is possessed of all riches, born in an aristocratic family, by bodily luster and by beauty, by austerity, by education, by expert activities, by effulgence, by influence, by bodily strength, historical activities, intelligence and mystic yoga power, by all these qualifications, nobody can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but simply by devotional service as it was done by Gajendra. Thus the Lord was satisfied upon him."



Prabhupāda:



*manye dhanābhijana*-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

*tejaḥ*-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ

nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso

*bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja*-yūtha-pāya

[SB 7.9.9]



*So bhagavad*-bhakti is not dependent on any material possession. Material possession, the description is fully given here. If one is very rich, dhana, he cannot think that "I can become a devotee of the Lord," because Hiraṇyakaśipu possessed the riches of the whole universe, but he could not become a devotee. So this is misconception, that "Because I am very rich, I am very beautiful, I am very intelligent, I am a great scholar, I am very prestigious person," and so on so on... There are so many things. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "No, nothing of these items can help you to be promoted to the transcendental platform of devotional service. Nothing, only bhakti." And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. He never said that by karma, by jñāna, by yoga. Nothing. There are four things for elevation: karma, jñāna, yoga and, lastly, bhakti. Bhakti is the ultimate goal. Karma you cannot become perfect if it is not mixed up with bhakti. That is called karma-yoga. Jñāna itself is useless unless it is added with bhakti. That is called jñāna-yoga. Similarly, haṭha-yoga... Every yoga... Everything is yoga: karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga. But yoga means connection, link-up with the Supreme. Then it is karma-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga. When this yoga becomes completely pure, then, without karma, without jñāna, without mystic power, that is called pure yoga.



So that pure yoga means love of Godhead: "Kṛṣṇa is my Lord; I am Kṛṣṇa's servant," this much understanding, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, so my life is for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all my activities should be simply directed for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa." This is called pure yoga. And therefore Kṛṣṇa says that,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata antarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*There are many types of yogis, but the yogi who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa*-hare kṛṣṇa, hare kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa, hare hare...



Devotees: ...hare rāma, hare rāma, rāma rāma, hare hare.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are first*-class yogis. Even they are... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was first-class yogi because he was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, and he was not afraid of his father's punishment, chastisement.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja analyzes that "These things cannot help you." If you think that "I am very rich man. I can purchase God..." Generally they think so, that by riches one can purchase God. Then dhana abhijana. Abhijana means aristocratic family, big connection with big, big men. That is called abhijana. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī was minister. So he was connected with very big, big family. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. This Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up this aristocratic position. Because he was minister, his connection with big, big zamindars, big, big businessmen, big, big Nawabs, he could not mix with ordinary men. But he gave up everything. The same example, as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, abhijana-"These are useless." So Rūpa Gosvāmī gave example, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-sreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Tucchavat: "Eh... It has no value, insignificant." Gave up. The same line... This is called disciplic succession. Many millions of years, the Prahlāda Mahārāja said that abhijana: "By these things you cannot achieve the platform of devotional service." And many, many millions of years after, so Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī also showed the same example. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-sreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. This is called paramparā system. Not that "Millions of years ago Prahlāda Mahārāja, what he did, that is now gone. Now something new should be introduced." No, it cannot be changed even millions of years after. This is called paramparā system. Kṛṣṇa said, "Millions of years ago I spoke this Bhagavad-gītā yoga process to sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham. The same aham, Kṛṣṇa, He spoke millions and trillions of years ago to sun-god. So nothing new. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a new, manufactured method. No. It is the oldest.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja also, the same, same thing, abhijana, rūpa. Rūpa means personal beauty. "I am very beautiful that Kṛṣṇa will be attracted." Kṛṣṇa has many, many thousands of beautiful wives and friends. In Vṛndāvana He had many, many beautiful girl friends, the gopīs. And in Dvārakā He had many, many beautiful queens, 16,108, counting*-Lakṣmīs. They are all goddess of fortune. That is Kṛṣṇa. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama sevyamānaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa, He's not after beauty, but beauty is after Him. That is Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa is after beauty. The materialistic person, they think that Kṛṣṇa was so much fond of beautiful woman. No, no. That is not the fact. The beautiful women were after Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful... Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ [Bs. 5.30]. Kandarpa. Kandarpa means Cupid. We have heard the name of Cupid, very beautiful, attractive. But He is kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya viśeṣa-śobhaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Kṛṣṇa does not want any beauty for His satisfaction. He's self-satisfied. But devotees, beautiful devotees, rich devotees, aristocratic devotees, perfect devotees, they are after... That is... He's self-satisfied. He doesn't require. These... Just like when these foolish people read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and it is said that Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives, queens, so they think that an ordinary man, one who keeps more than one wife, he is considered to be very lusty. No, no. That is not the fact.

*Kṛṣṇa... These sixteen thousand wives, how they became wives? You know the story, that many beautiful, sixteen thousand beautiful, I mean to say, king's daughters were kidnapped by the asura. What is the name of that asura? Bhaumāsura, no? Yes. So they prayed to Kṛṣṇa that "We are suffering, kidnapped by this rascal. Please save us." So Kṛṣṇa came to rescue them, and the Bhaumāsura was killed and all the girls were made free. But after freedom they were still standing there. So Kṛṣṇa asked them, "Now you can go home to your father." They said that "We are kidnapped, and we cannot be married." In India still that rule is there. If one girl, young girl, goes out of home for one day or two days, nobody will marry him (her). Nobody will marry him (her). He's (She's) considered to be spoiled. This is still the Indian system. So they were kidnapped for so many days or so many years, so they appealed to Kṛṣṇa that "We'll not be accepted either by our father, neither anybody will agree to marry." Then Kṛṣṇa understood that "Their position is very precarious. Although they are released, they cannot go anywhere." Then Kṛṣṇa... He's so kind, bhakta*-vatsala. He inquired, "What you want?" That... They said that "You accept me. Otherwise we have no other means to stay." Kṛṣṇa immediately: "Yes, come on." This is Kṛṣṇa. And not that His sixteen thousand wives was concentrated in one camp. He immediately constructed sixteen thousand palaces. Because He has accepted as wife, he (she) must be maintained as His wife, as His queen, not that "Because they have no other means, they have come to My shelter. I can keep them any way." No. Most respectfully as queen, as Kṛṣṇa's queen. And again He thought that "The sixteen thousand wives... So if I remain alone, one figure, then My wives cannot meet Me. Everyone has to wait for sixteen thousand days to see the husband. No." He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa. The rascals, they accuse Kṛṣṇa as woman-hunter. It is not like you. You cannot maintain even one wife, but He maintained sixteen thousand wives in sixteen thousand palaces and in sixteen thousand expansion of form. Everyone was pleased. This is Kṛṣṇa. We have to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Don't try to imitate Kṛṣṇa. First of all try to understand Kṛṣṇa.

*So then again, tapa. Yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. In the human society this is very essential, that one must perform yajña. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, dāna. Just like a brahmacārī, he must perform yajña. Then gṛhastha, he must give in charity. And who will give charity? Now they cannot maintain even family. And where is the question of charity? The gṛhastha must give in charity. Yajña, dāna and tapaḥ. And those who are vānaprastha and sannyāsī, they should practice tapasya, austerities. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. Because you have taken sannyāsa, you cannot give up these things, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ. It must continue. You cannot say, "We have given up everything. We have given up these things also." No. Kṛṣṇa therefore said, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā pavanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you think that you have become very great saintly person, still, you cannot give up this yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. So, tapaḥ. And śruta. Śruta means education. Education means Vedic education, not this electrical education. No, that is not education. Nowadays they have taken education, technology as education. That is not education. If I become an expert electrician, that is not education. Education, paṇḍitva, the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, even in the lower stage of life, ordinary life, he said who is educated, paṇḍita. He said,

*mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

*ātmavat sarva*-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



*This is education. Where is that education? Mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu? All women mother. Where is that education? There is no education. Therefore in this age practically everyone is a mūḍha, not educated. He does not know how to look upon woman. Woman should be looked as mother. Still in India, a unknown woman should be addressed, "Mother." They have introduced now in the northern India, bahinjī (?). No, this was not the etiquette. "Mātājī." This is Indian culture, not bahinjī (?). This has been introduced now. No. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā [SB 9.19.17]. Woman's connection with man is as mother, as sister or as daughter. No other relationship. This is Indian culture.



*mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

*ātmavat sarva*-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



This is culture. This is called śrauta.



*And tejaḥ, ojasā. Ojasā means strength. Just like kṣatriya, they are tejaḥ. A kṣatriya cannot tolerate that a man is being tortured before him. No, he'll take immediately. Why man? Even animal. Even animal. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He saw that one cow was being attempted to be killed. Immediately he took his sword. And in the modern civilization, even in a city like New York, if a man is killed before one man, nobody will take care. Nobody will take care. Is it not? "Let him be killed. I am going in my own way." So this is not civilization. There is no brāhmaṇa. There is no kṣatriya. There is no vaiśya. Simply all śūdras. Kalau śūdra*-sambhavaḥ. So you cannot be happy under the government of the śūdras. That is not possible. Must be tejaḥ. Government must be very, very powerful. Even, say, not more than hundred years ago, the Kashmir king was so powerful that there was no stealing in the state, on the whole state. There was no stealing. There was no thief. That is government. In the, at night I have to become concerned that thief may come, a burglar may come, so... That is not the government. One should lie down very freely: "The government is there." That is called tejaḥ, kṣatriya. Tejaḥ, then prabhāva, influence, and bala, bodily strength. Pauruṣa. Pauruṣa means one who has achieved many wonderful things. They are called pauruṣa. So nowadays there are many persons who are very... They have done so-called achievement. Just like this atom bomb. It is also atom bomb, but what for, this purpose? The purpose is to kill. That is not prabhāva. Prabhāva means to do good to others, influence. Prabhāva, pauruṣa and buddhi, intelligence. So buddhi means not how to cheat you. That is not buddhi. Buddhi means to know what is your problem of life and endeavor for solving this problem. This is called buddhi. Therefore bhakti-yoga is known as buddhi-yoga. Buddhi-yoga.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find this word, buddhi-yoga. What is that buddhi-yoga? Buddhi-yoga means yena mām upayānti te, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam. That is buddhi-yoga. Intelligence means to know how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is intelligence, not that intelligence how to cheat you, how to get some money, hook and crook. That is not intelligence. That intelligence I see I was... Hari-śauri, I was explaining that, that even ant, a small ant, as soon as there is a drop of sugar juice, immediately, within a second, hundreds of ants will come: "Here is a drop of sugar juice." This is nature's study. This kind of buddhi-yoga or buddhi, intelligence, how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend, even in the ant there, this buddhi-yoga is there. That is not buddhi-yoga. To endeavor too much for the āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca, that is not considered buddhi. That buddhi, intelligence, is there even in the ant, a small ant. The real buddhi-yoga is how to be engaged in devotional service of the Lord. That is buddhi-yoga. How to become first-class devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is called buddhi-yoga. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. That is buddhi-yoga. How to go back to home, back to Godhead, that is buddhi.

*So this ordinary buddhi will not... Everyone has got intelligence. Even the ant has got intelligence. We study sometime: the sparrow, he has got intelligence. But the perfect intelligence is there when one is in bhakti-yoga, in searching of... athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is searching after the Absolute Truth, that is buddhi-yoga. Buddhi-yoga. Here is also yoga. Na ārādhanāya. This ordinary material buddhi, material wealth, material beauty, these things are not competent to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Na ārādhanāya. Nārādhanāya bhavanti: "These are useless." So don't be disappointed that "Because I am poor, I cannot become devotee." Everyone can become devotee, ā-bāla-vṛddha-vāṇītaḥ, even the children. Just see how the children, they are dancing, they are chanting, they are offering obeisances. That is bhakti-yoga. Apratihatā. "Because they are children, they cannot become a devotee"*-it is not that, the fact. Everyone can become devotee, provided he is properly guided. That is required.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yena ātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*So gaja*-yūtha-pāya. Here it is. Even the elephant, he also become a great devotee. Even a monkey, Hanumānjī, he became a great devotee. He's not even human being. So therefore bhakti is apratihatā. It cannot be checked in any condition. In any condition you become bhakta simply if you learn from the authorities how to do it. That greatest authority is Kṛṣṇa. He says, "I'll give you intelligence." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. "I'll give you." How? Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. If one is working under the direction of the spiritual master with love and faith, then Kṛṣṇa, from within, as caitya-guru, the guru within the heart, He'll help you, and he'll send you bona fide guru to help you externally. So both ways, you'll be helped, and you'll become Prahlāda Mahārāja.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



770301SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.9

-

Māyāpur, March 1, 1977



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: One may possess wealth, an aristocratic family, beauty, austerity, education, sensory expertise, luster, influence, physical strength, diligence, intelligence and mystic yogic power, but I think that even by all these qualifications one cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, one can satisfy the Lord simply by devotional service. Gajendra did this, and thus the Lord was satisfied with him."



Prabhupāda:



*manye dhanābhijana*-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

*tejaḥ*-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ

nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso

*bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja*-yūtha-pāya

[SB 7.9.9]



*So these are material assets. (aside:) It's not working? (bumps microphone) Hm? Wealth, dhana... Nobody can captivate Kṛṣṇa by all these material possessions. These are material possessions: money, then manpower, beauty, education, austerity, mystic power and so on, so on. There are so many things. They are not capable of approaching the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa personally says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. He doesn't say all these material possessions, that "If one is very rich man, he can have My favor." No. Kṛṣṇa is not a poor man like me, that if somebody gives me some money, I become benefited. He's self*-sufficient, ātmārāma. So there is no need of any help from anyone else. He's fully satisfied, ātmārāma. Only bhakti, love, that is required.



*Bhakti means to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is without any purpose. Ahaituky apratihatā. That bhakti, unalloyed... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Everywhere this is the statement of the śāstra, that bhakti should be unalloyed.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna karmādy*-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

tat paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*There are so many other definition. And if we have bhakti, love for Kṛṣṇa, then we don't require huge amount of money or strength or education or austerity. Nothing of the sort. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. He doesn't require anything from us, but He wants everyone that because he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, He wants to see that everyone is obedient to Him, everyone loves Him. That is His aspiration. Just like the father is very rich man. He doesn't require any help from his son, but he aspires that his son should be obedient and lover. That is his satisfaction. That is the whole situation. Kṛṣṇa has created... Eko bahu śyāma. We are vibhinnāṁśa*-mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]-part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, every one of us. So everyone has got some duty. Kṛṣṇa has created us, expecting something to be done by us for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. So that, our opportunity, is obtained in this human form of life. We should not waste our valuable time in any other occupation or business. Simply inquire and be ready how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīla Ānukūla. Not your satisfaction but Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is called ānukūla, favorable. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. And anuśīlanam means activity, not that "In trance I am in meditation." That is also Something is better than nothing, but real devotional service is activity. One must be active, and the best activity is to preach the glory of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the best activity. Na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me prīya-kṛttamaḥ.



*So our this movement is based on practical activity. Whatever talent you have got, whatever little strength you have got, education you have got... You haven't got to learn anything. Whatever you have got, in whatever position you are, you can serve Kṛṣṇa. Not that you have to learn something first and then you can serve. No. The service itself is learning. The more you try to render service, the more you become advanced how to become experienced servant. We don't require any extra intelligence. Otherwise... The example is gaja*-yūtha-pāya. The elephant, the king of the elephants, he satisfied. He's an animal. He's not a brāhmaṇa. He's not a Vedantist. Maybe very big, fatty animal, but after all, he's animal. Hanuman was animal. There are many such things. Jaṭāyu was a bird. So how they satisfied? The Jaṭāyu fought with Rāvaṇa. Yesterday you saw. Rāvaṇa was kidnapping Sītā devi, and Jaṭāyu, the bird, he was going, flying. Rāvaṇa knew how to fly without machine. He was very, very materially powerful. So the Jaṭāyu attacked him on the sky: "Who are you? You are taking away Sītā. I shall fight you." So Rāvaṇa was very powerful. He was defeated, Jaṭāyu, but he fought. That is his service. Never mind defeated. Similarly, we have to fight. Those who are opposing Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have to fight with them to our best capacity. Never mind if we are defeated. That is also service. Kṛṣṇa sees the service. Defeated or victorious, depend on Kṛṣṇa. But fighting must be there. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. That is the meaning. You have to work for Kṛṣṇa sincerely, intelligently, and victory or defeat, it doesn't matter. Just like Jaṭāyu was defeated fighting with Rāvaṇa. His wings were cut off. Rāvaṇa was very strong. And Lord Rāmacandra, He did his last funeral ceremonies because he was a devotee. This is the process, not that we have to learn something extra. Whatever capacity we have got, let us decide to render service to the Lord. It doesn't require that you must be very rich or very beautiful, very bodily strong. Nothing of the sort. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaituky apratihatā [SB 1.2.6]. In any condition, your devotional service should not be stopped. That should be the principle, that we are not going to stop, any circumstance. And Kṛṣṇa is prepared even to accept a little flower, little water. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ [Bg. 9.26]. He doesn't say, "Give me very luxurious and palatable dishes. Then I'll..." He'll be satisfied. No. The real necessity is bhakti. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. This is real necessity-bhaktyā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś ca... [Bg. 18.55].

*Therefore we have to develop our bhakti, love for Kṛṣṇa. Premā pumartho mahān, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised. People are after dharma artha*-kama mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90], but Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No, even if you become liberated, mokṣa, that is not the qualification to get favor of Kṛṣṇa." Prema pumartho mahan. Pancama-puruṣartha. People are trying to be very religious. That is good. Then economic. Dharma artha. Artha means economically very rich, opulent. Then kama, very expert in sense enjoyment. And then mukti. This is general demand. But Bhāgavata says, "No, these things are not qualification." Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. Śrīdhara Swāmī has said that mukti is also another cheating. Why mukti? Kṛṣṇa does not demand that "Unless you are mukta, liberated, you cannot serve." No. You can serve in any condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Not that because first of all we have to become liberated... Because as soon as you begin bhakti, you are already liberated. The platform is so great that a bhakta, without any other ultra-motive, he's already liberated. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate.

māṁ ca ya 'vyabhicāreṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



Immediately.



sarva dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



If Kṛṣṇa takes charge of vanquishing all your reaction of sinful life, that means immediately you are mukta, you are liberated.



Liberation means... We are entangled in this material world because we are creating one after another entanglement. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Because we are in such a position that we have to act obversely, not properly, even if you do not desire... Even if you are very careful not to kill even an ant, still, unperceptibly, imperceptibly, you, while walking, you kill so many ants. And don't think that you are not sinful for that purpose. You become sinful. Especially those who are nondevotees, they must be responsible for killing so many small creatures while walking or while... There is waterpot, you have seen. So many small animals are there. Even by moving the waterpot, you kill so many living entities. While igniting fire in the oven, there are so many living entities. You kill them. So consciously, unconsciously, we are in such a position in this material world that we have to commit sinful activities even if we are very, very careful. You have seen the Jains, they are after nonviolence. You'll find they keep a cloth like this so that the small insects may not enter the mouth. But these are artificial. You cannot check. In the air there are so many living entities. In the water there are so many living entities. We drink water. You cannot check it. It is not possible. But if you keep yourself fixed up in devotional service, then you are not bound.

*Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma*-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. If your life is dedicated for yajña, for serving Kṛṣṇa, then the inevitable sinful activities which we commit without any knowledge, we are not responsible. Manye mithe kṛtaṁ pāpaṁ puṇyaya eva kalpate (?). So our life should be dedicated simply for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then we are safe. Otherwise we must be entangled with so many reaction of our activities and bound up in the repetition of birth and death. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3].

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



The safest position is let us always be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then we make spiritually advance and safe from the reaction of sinful life.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja thought it that, although he was born in a family, asura family, ugra, ugra*-jātam, still, if he decides to serve Kṛṣṇa, Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, with bhakti, following the footprints of gaja-yūtha pāya, the king of elephant... He was animal. You know the story, that he was attacked by a crocodile in the water. So there was struggle for existence between the two, and after all, the crocodile is the animal in the water. He had great strength. And the elephant, although he's also very big, powerful animal, but he was not a animal of the water. So he was very helpless. So at last, he began to chant the holy name of the Lord and prayed, so he was saved. He was saved, and because the crocodile caught up the leg of the elephant, he was also saved because he was Vaiṣṇava. And this animal, crocodile, he was under the feet of a Vaiṣṇava, so he was also saved. (laughter) This is the story, you know. So therefore, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava sevā. He indirectly gave service to the Vaiṣṇava, and he also became delivered.

*So bhakti is so nice thing that very easily you can get favor of the Supreme Personality. And if Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon you, then what remains? Everything you get. Everything you get. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Easiest way to please Kṛṣṇa... You don't require much money, much education, and nothing of the sort. Simply you require your heart: "O Kṛṣṇa, You are my Lord. You are my master eternally. I am Your servant eternally. Let me be engaged in Your service." That is Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ (devotees chant) Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra: "O Kṛṣṇa, O energy of Kṛṣṇa, I am Your servant. Somehow or other I have now fallen in this material condition. Kindly pick me up and engage me in service." Ayi nanda*-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavaṁ budhau. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching us. Bhavaṁ budhau. This material world is just like a great ocean, bhava. Bhava means repetition of birth and death, and āmbu means āmbudhau, means in the sea, in the ocean. So we are struggling hard for existence in this ocean. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ayi nanda tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ mām: "I am Your servant eternal. Somehow or other I have fallen in this ocean and struggling. Pick me up." Ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ mām viṣame bhavāmbudhau kṛpāya. By Your causeless mercy...

*ayi nanda*-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau

*kṛpāya tava pāda*-paṅkaja-sthita-dhūlī sadṛśsaṁ vicintaya

[Cc. Antya 20.32, Śikṣāṣṭaka 5]



*This is bhakti*-mārga, devotional service, to become very humble, meek, always pray to Kṛṣṇa, "Kindly consider me as one of the particle of the dust of the lotus feet of Your Lordship," this very simple thing. Man-manā. In this way think of Kṛṣṇa, become His devotee, offer obeisances and whatever patraṁ puṣpaṁ, little flower, water, you can provide, offer to Kṛṣṇa. In this way live very peacefully and be happy.



Thank you very much. (end)



680709SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.10

-

Montreal, July 9, 1968



Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja has decided that any material qualification is not, I mean to say, the prerogative or any preferential admission or fee for entering into the kingdom of God. So he is explaining furthermore how it is so. He says,



*viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-

*pādāravinda*-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham

*manye tad*-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

[SB 7.9.10]



Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I think..." Whatever he thinks is right, because he is a great devotee. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. The Vedic literatures indicate that you have to follow the footprints of great personalities, devotees. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. If you want to understand the Absolute Truth by your argument and logic, oh, it is not possible. Because our argument, logic, may be defeated by another man. Another man's argument may be defeated by another man. Because all of us, we are limited. Whatever qualification we have got, they are all limited, and there is greater and greatest, comparative, superlative degree in every field of activities.



*So that is not the way. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. If you want to understand the Absolute Truth by your arguments, it is not possible. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnam. Śrutayo means scriptures. If you want to understand the Absolute Truth by studying different scriptures... Just like the Hindus have got their different scriptures. They have got four Vedas, eighteen Purāṇas, Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa, Vedānta*-sūtra, 108 Upaniṣads, so many, similarly, in other countries also, they have got Bible or Buddhist literature or Muhammadan. They are all scripture. But you cannot conclude about the Absolute Truth simply by studying scriptures. It is not possible. Śrutayor vibhinnaḥ. Vibhinnaḥ means there are different... Every scripture is made according to the time, atmosphere, persons-so many things there are conditional. Therefore we sometimes find differences in one scripture from another. That is due to circumstances. So Śrutayor vibhinnā nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. So far philosophers, great thinkers, muni... Muni means great thinker. They have got their different theses. One muni, thinker, or philosopher, is trying to defeat another philosopher. This is going on. So that is also not the way to understand the Absolute Truth; *neither by argument nor by study of scriptures, nor by following different kinds of thinkers and philosophers. Why? Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitam guhāyāṁ. The essence of spiritual realization is very secret and confidential. Therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "I am... Just now I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge." Sarva-guhyatamaṁ. "Why You are speaking to me the most confidential...?" "Because you are My very dear friend." And what is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up everything. Simply surrender unto Me."

*So the Vedas indicate therefore that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you want to understand the Absolute Truth, then you have to follow great personalities, great devotees. Just like in the Western world, Lord Jesus Christ, you have to follow his principles. This is all right, his Ten Commandments. But we do not follow. We simply fight. "Oh, I am Christian, you are Hindu," "I am Muhammadan," "I am this." Nobody tries to follow. You see? That is not the way. You have to follow. If you believe in certain personality... Of course, not believe, not blind believing. He must be authority. Therefore in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam they have indicated twelve authorities. According to Vedic version, there are twelve authorities, and one of them is Prahlāda Mahārāja. The twelve authorities are,

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



This was explained by Yamarāja to his followers, that there are twelve authorities. So if one has to know the secret of spiritual realization, then one has to follow either of these twelve authorities. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the authorities. Therefore I say, when Prahlāda Mahārāja says manye, "I think," it has to be taken as authoritative statement. We have to follow. If we follow the footprints of great personalities, then there is no danger. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Just like in the villages there is a track. One who follows that track, he is not lost. He... Similarly, if we follow the track of mahājana on which great personality has traversed, then we'll not fall.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he says, "I think." So whatever he thinks, we have to accept. That is very nice. And what he thinks? He thinks, manye viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha pādāravinda-vimukhāt, śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. He says that "If a brāhmaṇa..." Brāhmaṇa is considered to be the highest qualified man in the human society. Why? Because he has got twelve qualification. We don't speak brāhmaṇa by birth. Brāhmaṇa does not become by birth. Brāhmaṇa is a qualification. That is the injunction of Vedic literatures. The most intelligent man is called brāhmaṇa. And how his intelligence is exhibited? There are twelve qualities. If you find those twelve qualities in any person... It doesn't matter whether it is in India or in Czechoslovakia or anywhere. Simply you have to find out whether that man is qualified. These qualifications are stated in Bhagavad-gītā also: satyam śaucam sam dama titikṣā ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jaṁ [Bg. 18.42]. If a person is a brāhmaṇa, then his natural qualification will be like this. What is that? Satyam: he is truthful. In any circumstances he will be truthful. Even to an enemy he will disclose the secret, "This is the fact." That is truthfulness, not that I am very truthful, but when my interest is jeopardized, I tell lie. That is not truthfulness. Truthfulness means at any circumstances one will speak the plain truth. That is truthfulness. Satya sama. Satya śaucam. Śaucam, cleanliness. There are two kinds of cleanliness: external and internal. External cleanliness by taking bath with soap and other cleansing material... Of course, in India, the brāhmaṇas, they take... They cleanse themselves externally at least three times a day: in the morning, early in the morning; at noon before taking lunch; *and in the evening before going to the temple. Tri*-sandhyā. There are so many rules and regulations for becoming cleansed. This is external cleanliness. And there is internal cleanliness. The internal cleanliness is this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart.

So satya śaucam and śama, equilibrium of the mind, not to become disturbed in any circumstances. That is called śama. Dama. Dama means controlling the senses. Every one of us, we are all controlled by the senses. But one has to become the controller of the senses. That is brāhmaṇa. That is svāmī. Svāmī or gosvāmī means who is controller of the senses. My tongue wants to eat something, and if I say, "No, you cannot eat this," then... My eyes see something. I say, "No, you cannot see this." My hand wants to touch something. I say, "No, you cannot do this." My legs want to go somewhere. I say, "No, you cannot do this." When one is in full control of the senses, he is called svāmī. Svāmī is not a title; it is a qualification. It is a qualification, and it is attained by a brāhmaṇa, one who is already advanced in brahminical qualification by cleansing. Then... And truthfulness. Then this qualification also is there, controller. And when one is completely controller of the senses, or when one is actually svāmī or gosvāmī... There is no difference between these two words. Svāmī means controller, and gosvāmī is still clearer. Go means senses, controller of the senses. So Rūpa Gosvāmī says who can be a spiritual master. So he has given specifically this definition, that one who has got controls over the tongue, over the speech, over the mind, over the belly, and over the genitals, and over the anger. If anyone has control over these six things, then he can become spiritual master. Pṛthiviṁ sa śiṣyāt: "He is allowed to make disciples all over the world." Otherwise not. These are the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Satyam śaucam śama dama titikṣā [Bg. 18.42]. Titikṣā means tolerance. Just like in your Western countries, Lord Jesus Christ, he was being crucified. He tolerated. He never cursed even. He, rather, begged from God, "My God, these people do not know what they are doing. Please excuse them." This is toleration. So satyam śaucam sama dama titikṣā. Toleration. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has instructed, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Tolerance. What kind of tolerance? Tolerance like the straw in the street, like the tree. Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. There are so many instances. Let us finish it briefly.

*So śaucam, satyaṁ śaucaṁ śamaṁ damaṁ titikṣā ārjavam. Simplicity. A brāhmaṇa should be very simple, not gorgeous. He wants to live, so he wants to eat something, not for the taste of the tongue but just to keep the body and soul together. He must eat nice things. There are nice things, grains, fruits, milk. Why should he take meat? If there are, by nature's products, so many nice things, why one should kill another animal? Desire(?), of course, serves (?). Titikṣā, ārjavam, and jñānam. Not that simply become qualified, but these qualification are stepping stone to jñānam. Jñānam means knowledge. And vijñānam. Vijñānam means practical application. Just like in the science class there is theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge. Theoretical knowledge*-if you mix hydrogen and oxygen gas, there is water. But we have to experiment it in the laboratory, mix so many parts of hydrogen and so many parts of oxygen, and actually, when we see there is water, then your knowledge is perfect. So not theoretical knowledge but practical application. Jñānam, vijñānam, and āstikyam. Āstikyam means faith in God, faith in scripture. That is called āstikyam. According to Vedic version, āstikyam means faith in the Vedas. Nobody can refute the Vedas. That is called faith, no argument.

A practical example, this practical example is given by Lord Caitanya. It is very nice. In India the cow dung is accepted as pure, although the Vedic injunction is that if you touch stool of an animal, you have to take bath to purify yourself, cleanse yourself. Of course, we see in New York City that the stool of dog is thrown all over the street, and we are touching, but we have no opportunity to take bath. But it is according to Vedic injunction, if you touch stool of an animal, then you have to take bath immediately. Therefore this is a system. When you go to the Deity room, you should change your cloth, because I do not know what things I have touched in the street, so better to change the cloth. And better still to cleanse, to take bath. That is the system. Anyway, to touch the stool of an animal makes one unclean; *therefore one has to take bath or purify himself. That is the system. But the Veda says the stool of cow is purified. The stool of cow is purified. Now, practically, in India they accept it, and it has been found by chemical examination that the cow dung contains all antiseptic properties. That is a fact. One Dr. Goshal, he analyzed in his laboratory, "Why this Vedic injunction is the stool of cow or cow dung is pure?" So he analyzed, and he found it that the stool of cow, cow dung, is full of antiseptic properties. So this is called faith or theistic, to take the injunction of the scripture as it is, without any information. That is called āstikyam. There is another example. Just like the Buddhism. Buddhism was originated in India. Lord Buddha was a Hindu, and he was a prince, and still, Buddhism was not accepted by the Indians. Why? Because the Buddhism decried the Vedas. Nindasi yajña*-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ. Śruti means Veda. So āstikyam means to have full faith in the orders of the scripture. This is also one of the qualification of a brāhmaṇa. Jñānam vijñānam āstikyam brahmā-karma svabhāva-jaṁ [Bg. 18.42]. These are the natural qualification of a brāhmaṇa.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that viprād dvi-ṣad-guṇa-yutādaravinda-nabha. Even a brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa who has all these brahminical qualifications, but he is not a devotee of the Lord... There are many good, qualified persons, but they do not on of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Materially, one may be very much highly qualified. Academically, one may be very highly qualified. But if one is not a believer, faithful, or is not accepting the existence of God, or God the Supreme, he is called atheist, and Prahlāda Mahārāja does not say atheist, but he says that "Even one has got all these good qualifications, but if he is not qualified with the faith in God, or not becoming a devotee of God, then he is nonqualified. He is rejected." You may take his qualification in consideration, but Prahlāda Mahārāja says he is rejected from Kṛṣṇa consciousness for that one disqualification, that he is not a devotee of God. Similarly, in other places it is also confirmed that yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ: "If one is simply unflinching faithful devotee of the Lord, then he develops all the good qualification of demigods." Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā: [SB 5.18.12] "If one is not devotee of the Lord, then he has no good qualification." Why? Because manorathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ: "Because he is hovering on the mental plane." And because he is hovering on the mental plane*-the mind's business is to change-so he will change from one platform to another, another platform to another. He has no fixed idea; *therefore his qualification has no value. In several places In the Bhagavad*-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa says, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk: "If a person is found even unclean or not very well behaved but he has got unflinching faith in Me, Kṛṣṇa," sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30], "oḥ, he is sādhu. He is saintly person." He is saintly because that one qualification, that he has full faith in God, Kṛṣṇa, that one qualification makes him a saintly person. Others may have all the good qualification, but simply for one minor godlessness, he is nonqualified.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja confirms the same statement. Prahlāda Mahārāja is also a sādhu because he is a devotee. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has said that if you want to make concrete progress in spiritual life, then you have to corroborate the statement of the scriptures, the statements of saintly person, and statements of the spiritual master*-three things. Why three things? Because a spiritual master means he does not place anything which is not in the scriptures. He does not say that "My theory is like this." That is not a spiritual master. Similarly sādhu, saintly person, also does not say anything which is not mentioned in the scriptures. He does not manufacture anything by mental concoction. And what is śāstra, scriptures? They are statement of different saintly persons and spiritual masters. Therefore one has to corroborate these three things: scriptures, and statement of saintly persons, and statement of spiritual master. The spiritual master is via media. The disciple, if he cannot understand the statement of the scriptures or any saintly person, he submits his doubts before the spiritual master and he clears it. In this way we have to make progress. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that a person, even if he is a brāhmaṇa with good qualification, if he is not a devotee of the Lord, then he is good for nothing. He says, "He is good for nothing." Viprād dvi-ṣad-guṇa-yutāt. And when who is good? Now, śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Better than him, even a person is born of a very low family... In India it is considered according to Vedic, that low family is considered one who eats the dog, dog-eaters. Of course, there are many kinds of flesh-eaters, but when a man becomes the eater of dog flesh, he is considered to be very low. So śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. So there is a class in India, they are called caṇḍāla. Everywhere there is. They eat dog flesh. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "It doesn't matter. But if he is a devotee of Lord, he is better than that brāhmaṇa, that brāhmaṇa with good qualifications. And he, although he is born of a low family..." Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Why he is variṣṭham? Now, manye tad-arpita-mano: "Because his mind and attention is always engaged in the service of the Lord." That is his qualification. That is making him purified in every moment. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ-kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17].

*Now, this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam which is full of the narration and topics of the Lord and His devotees... So devotees means one who talks about God, and God means His pastime with His devotee. Anyway, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means the topics of the Lord, God. So Kṛṣṇa is within you. According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, śṛṇvatām sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇa. Those who are hearing about God, or Kṛṣṇa, and what sort of those topics? Now, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ... One who is narrating and one who is hearing, both of them are being purified. Puṇya. Puṇya means pious, piety. Who, at least those who are hearing this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is so nice that he is being purified. It is not that all of you are my students, or we are not We don't claim that we have become fully purified, but we have accepted the purificatory process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So anyone who hears this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa and kindly attends this class, he is also purified. Śṛnvatām sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-tanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Kīrtana. This chanting is so nice that it makes people, one who is hearing, purified. So a person who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, always talking of Kṛṣṇa, then just imagine how much purified he is becoming. So puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satyam. The Lord is friend of the devotee, and as soon as He sees-He is within you*-that you are engaged in hearing about Him, He helps you. How He helps you? He cleanses your heart. Therefore a person, although he is born of low family, because he is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, or God, always, oh, he is being purified. Prahlāda Mahārāja gives us evidence that manye tad-arpita-manaḥ. Because he has placed his life, he has placed his endeavor, everything for Kṛṣṇa, by mind, by his body, by activities, therefore prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ: he is purifying not only himself but his whole family. This is a prerogative. If a boy becomes a devotee, the whole family becomes purified. Sva-kulaṁ. The whole family becomes purified. What best service he can give otherwise than by becoming the devotee of Lord? That is the best service to his father, mother, forefathers, grandfather, everyone. That we will find in this Prahlāda Mahārāja said, sva-kulaṁ. And na tu bhūrimānaḥ.

*But a person who is simply proud of his material qualification, bhūrimānaḥ... Bhūrimānaḥ means puffed up, Mr., Dr. Frog, puffed up: "Oh, I am such and such. I am such and such." So he cannot purify himself, what to speak of his family. No. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he purifies himself. Never mind wherever he is born. It doesn't matter. He is more than a brāhmaṇa, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa, with all the qualifications. This is certified by Prahlāda Mahārāja. We have to accept it. Nobody can say that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness... There are many so-called, I mean to say, brāhmaṇas. They may say like that, that "How Kṛṣṇa conscious can be spread up in the Western countries?" No. That is not the fact. That fact, as it is said by Prahlāda Mahārāja: even the lowest of the lowest can be purified. There are many other statements. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā [SB 2.4.18]. The list has been given. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that anyone who takes to this principle, he becomes greater than the highly qualified brāhmaṇa. That is the statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja.

Thank you very much. [break] ... questions [break]

Guest: ...Hare Kṛṣṇa, I don't really wish to do it. If you don't believe it, and you do it...



Prabhupāda: Still, he'll be purified. Just like if you catch fire...



Guest: How many minutes do you recommend a day? How many minutes do you chant?



Prabhupāda: Constantly, without any cessation. Is it very difficult? You can chant while you are walking in the street, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Who checks you? There is no tax, there is no price, and if there is some gain, why don't you try it? If there is any gain by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, oh, it is better to give it a trial. We are not charging anything; the government is not taxing anything. You can chant: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Just see the result. At least for one week you chant. It is very nice thing. One does not require to be highly educated or very rich or very beautiful or very famous. No. Anyone. Anyone. Simply God has given us this tongue, we can vibrate nicely. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, just see the result. I think one of our students, Śrīman Hayagrīva brahmacārī, he will give you a nice experience, when he first came here in this class and chanted on the way, how did he feel. There are many instances. Yes. So our only appeal to you, all people of the world, that we are embarrassed with so many problems. So we say this is the only solution. There is no price; there is no tax; *there is no, I mean to say, imposition of previous qualifications. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our propaganda. And see the result. Sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. And... On the whole, there are three words only: Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma. So these three words, they are nicely set up in sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma... So we request everyone to chant this transcendental vibration and see the result. There is no question that you have to change your religion, you have to change your dress, change your occupation. No. Simply go on chanting. [break] ...pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su*-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2].



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated that this, this process of devotional service to the Lord, is pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ. There are many types of religious principles or religiousness, but here is the religion which you can directly perceive. Which you can directly perceive. Pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ. And su-sukhaṁ. Su-sukhaṁ means very easy to perform, very easy. Anyone, even a child, can perform. Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. Avyayam means imperishable. If you chant for a minute, it will never go in vain. Avyayam. It will never go in vain. A great opportunity. So we should take this opportunity. Pratya Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyam. This is called rāja-vidyā, the knowledge, the king of all knowledge. Rāja-guhyam, the king of all confidential things. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ pavitraṁ paramam idam, and very pure, and sublime. Pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ, and it is directly perceived, su-sukham, and very easy to perform, avyayam, never to be destroyed. Whatever you do, that is your asset. If you do one percent, that is your asset. So actually it is so. So our request is that you take up this chanting and be happy. (end)



680710SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.10

-

Montreal, July 10, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-

*pādāravinda*-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham

*manye tad*-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

*prāṇaṁ punāti sa*-kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

[SB 7.9.10]



*This verse we have been discussing. (aside:) You can open. So vipra. Vipra means one who is fully conversant with Vedic knowledge. He is called vipra. For spiritual elevation there are gradual evolutionary stages. So vipra stage is just before becoming a qualified brāhmaṇa. That is called vipra. The first stage, by birth everyone is śūdra. Śūdra means affected by the miseries of this world. He is śūdra. Śocati. The material condition is full of anxiety, so anyone who is full of anxiety, he is śūdra. This is the... So if you analyze the present society, that who is not anxiety, full of anxiety, oh, nobody will say that "I am not full of anxiety." "I have got so many anxieties." So that means he is a śūdra. Kalau śūdra*-sambhavaḥ: "In this age, everyone is śūdra." That is concluded. A brāhmaṇa is not afraid. He is not anxious because he is dependent on God. He knows that "I have surrendered unto God completely, and He is all-powerful. Therefore I have no anxiety." Just like a small child, he has no anxiety. Why? Because he is completely dependent on the parents. He knows confidently that in any danger, "Oh, my mother is there." As soon as he feels there is some danger, "Mother!" That's all. Finished. Similarly, one who is completely confident that "The supreme father is there. He will protect me, give me protection," so he has no anxiety. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. When one is fully confident about God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not afraid, not even afraid of death, because he knows that he has no death. He is eternal.



*So to come to this platform of confidence or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is training. That training is called viddhi-mārga, regulative principles, following the regulative principles. So this whole varṇāśrama system, Vedic system, the different caste-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, a brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa-they are very scientifically designed to elevate one gradually to the standard of "no fear," "fearfulnessless," no more fear, confident. So vipra means just the previous stage of becoming completely a brāhmaṇa. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ: "By birth everyone is born a śūdra." Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ: "When he goes to the spiritual master and the spiritual master initiates him, at that time his second birth is there, dvija." Dvija. The birds are called also dvija because they get twice birth. Once they come as egg, the form of birth in the egg, and then, when they come out from the egg and the shell, break the shell and come out, that is real life. Similarly, we are in the egg, within the shell of ignorance. So when we come out from the shell of ignorance, that is our second birth. The first birth is by father and mother, and the second birth is by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. There is also mother. The Vedic knowledge is mother, and the spiritual master is the father. So saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. The spiritual master trains the student gradually. That is called initiation. That is called dvija. Janmana jāyate śūdraḥ: "By birth by the father and mother, everyone is śūdra." It doesn't matter where he takes his birth, not that only India they are brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Everywhere. Cātur-varṇyam mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that these four system of social division-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra*-they are all over the universe, not that... Don't think that it is in India. Everywhere.

*So saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. By reformation, by following the regulative principle of how to elevate oneself to the knowledge of Brahman... That is called saṁskāra. There are ten kinds of saṁskāras, reformatory. This Vedic system is very scientific system to elevate the humankind to the highest perfection of life. So saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Then, when the saṁskāra is given, when his, the spiritual master sees that "This boy is now competent to study Vedas..." That requires a qualification. A śūdra is not allowed to study Vedas. There is restriction. Sometimes they think injustice, that "Why śūdras?" That is modern convention. Actually that is very nice. What a śūdra can understand Vedas? To the śūdras, a different type of knowledge... Just like the same thing, that the two plus two in the lower class is different from the two plus two in the higher mathematics. So śūdra cannot understand. So one has to become brāhmaṇa, vipra at least, dvija, twice*-birth by initiation. Then he is allowed to study. Then he will be able to understand the language of... It is not injustice that śūdras are not... Just like... I do not know what is the system in your country, but in India, one who is not a graduate, he is not allowed to study law. If one, anyone wants to study law, if he wants to enter into the law college, then he must be a graduate first of all, at least B.A. Otherwise he cannot. So if somebody says, "It is injustice," why? "Everyone should." Everyone cannot understand. Similarly, without being initiated by proper spiritual master, nobody can understand. The Vedas is not like that: you purchase a book, the Bhagavad-gītā or Bhāgavata, and study at home, and you learn. Oh, it is not possible just like simply by purchasing some medical books and study at home you cannot become a doctor, medical man. That is not possible. Neither you can become a lawyer. The books are available in the market, but that is not the process. You have to enter yourself in an institution, take lessons from the professors, must attend lecture classes, seventy-five percent at least. Then you are allowed to sit in the examination.

*So the gradual process... First birth is śūdra, anyone. It doesn't matter. Even if he is born of a brāhmaṇa father, he is considered a śūdra. So then, by initiation, he becomes dvija, second birth. Then he is allowed to study the Vedic literatures, and when he is conversant with the studies of Vedic literature, he is called vipra. And when one has become a vipra-because that is the just previous stage of becoming a brāhmaṇa*-he acquires twelve kinds of qualities. Satya-śama-dama-titikṣa. The first quality is truthfulness. The second quality is controlling the senses. Controlling the mind. Śama-dama-titikṣa, to be very tolerant; ārjava, very simple; full of knowledge; full of theism; *so many qualities. These qualities are mentioned. So here Prahlāda Mahārāja says, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutāt. When one is a vipra, that means he has got all the good qualities, material good qualities. He is truthful. He is conversant with the science of religion. He knows what is God, what is Brahman. He is self-controlled. He is not sensual. So many good qualities. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "Even one has attained the stage of becoming a vipra, and he has acquired all the good qualities required for becoming a vipra, but if he is lacking one quality..." What is that? Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutā aravinda-nābha pādāravinda-vimukhāt: "But he is adverse to God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has got all the good qualities, he has studied Vedas, but if he is not God conscious..." Pādāravinda. Aravinda-nābha pādāravinda. Aravinda-nābha. Nabha means this navel, and aravinda means lotus. You know that the creation is made by the navel of Viṣṇu, the first sprouting of the lotus flower-like planet, and there is Brahmā, and he creates other things. So therefore, aravinda-nābha, "the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose navel has the lotus flower," aravinda-nābha. And pādāravinda: "And His feet is also just like lotus, aravinda." Aravinda-nābha aravinda-pāda. That means Supreme Personality of Godhead. So a vipra, a qualified person with all good qualities, material qualities, if he is lacking the simple quality that he is not conversant with the science of God, vimukhāt, he is not very serious to understand what is God... That is the position.

*Now, at the present moment, everyone is highly educated to the material standard, but they have no knowledge what is God. So even they become vipra, because they are lacking this knowledge, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that a person, a dog*-eater who has God consciousness is better than him. Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Śvapaca means a person who is born in the family of dog-eaters. Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Manye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha. There is description, mauna-vijñāna-santoṣa-satyāṣṭika-dviṣād-guṇān, yad vā śamo damas tapo śaucaṁ kṣānti ārjava viraktataḥ. Mauna-vijñāna-santoṣa-satyāṣṭika-dviṣād-guṇān. The eleven, twelve qualities, good qualities, is described in the Vedic literature. What is this? That śama. Śama means the equilibrium of the mind. Dama. Dama means controlling the senses. Śamo damas tapaḥ, austerity. Tapa means... Tapa means from tapa, heat. Just like this heat is not tolerable. I require the fan. So tapa means to accept voluntarily some physical trouble. That is called tapa. There are many sages who, in, during summer, they will burn fire all sides and meditate. There is already high temperature, 112 degrees in India. Sometimes 180 degree, and still they have fire all sides, all sides. Yes. And they are meditating, not disturbed. So this is called voluntarily tapa. And in winter season, when the temperature is forty degrees, fifty degrees, is of course, not below zero, anyway, he goes to the water and dip into the water simply keeping the mouth up and meditating. So there are some severe processes for tapasya. So this is one of the good qualities.

*But in this age it is very difficult. To undergo such voluntary tribulations for realization, self*-realization, meditation is not possible in this age. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that "You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. You don't have to take any botheration. In whatever position you are, you just try to consent in your mind to hear the sound of Hare Kṛṣṇa, best type of meditation, because it is not possible to acquire all these qualities, tapa. So śamo-damas-tapa-śaucam. Śaucam means cleanliness, hygienic principles, to take bath thrice, at least once, daily. Therefore to keep no hair is better. You wash, there is no question of moisture in the hair. And those who have got big hairs, they cannot take daily bath. But if you keep your bald-headed, there is no trouble. Śaucam. So bathing is required, taking bath daily, śaucam. And kṣānti. Kṣānti means toleration. Because this world is full of miseries, and you have to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this condition... Kṛṣṇa advised in the Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna, that... Because the topic was on the body, so Arjuna said, "Accepting that the soul is immortal and it never dies, still, if some relative dies, we feel pain. Is it not a fact?" Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, it is a fact." Even if I know that my son is dead, my son is not dead. The soul of my son is departed from this body to another body. So there is no cause of anxiety. He has got another body, but still, I feel, "Oh, my son...," for the body, because I am accustomed to love my son by the body. So this concession should be allowed. If somebody is crying, that does not mean he is a fool, but it is material affection. So Kṛṣṇa advises that this kṣānti, titikṣa, toleration. How toleration? Śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Just like we tolerate there is severe cold. There is no use fighting and howling, "Oh, there is so much cold, so much cold, so much." You have to tolerate. You cannot fight.

*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino 'nityās

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



*He advised, "Yes, I understand there are pains and pleasures like that, but they have to be tolerated. You cannot be disturbed. You have to execute your business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If there is any trouble, you must know no trouble or no happiness exists because this is material. It has come. It will go. So for the time being, don't be mad after happiness and don't be mad after miseries." Āgamāpāyina: "They come and go." Just like nowadays it is very hot. This season will change, and again we will be disturbed by cold. So disturbance will continue, either heat or cold due to this material body, mātrā*-sparśā, due to this skin attachment. So we have to tolerate.



*So one who is actually vipra, he is tolerant. He is not disturbed by these material tribulations, kṣānti, ārjavam. Simple, very simple. Duplicity is very bad qualification for spiritual advancement. We have got a tendency for cheating, everyone, conditioned soul. That should be minimized. This is called ārjavam. Ārjavam means sad*-rata. And viraktata, detachment. The whole system is detachment from matter. If we are too much attached... Or why too much? Even if we are slightly attached to this material life, then we have to accept this body, any kind of body, this body or that body. There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. So, so long we'll have a slight attachment for this material enjoyment, sense enjoyment, we will have to accept a certain type of body. Therefore this vairāgya, viraktata, detachment from matter, is the whole basic principle of spiritual realization. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is simultaneously detachment from matter and attachment for Kṛṣṇa. It is so nice system. It is so nice. Just like we have to increase our love for Kṛṣṇa. The proportionately we increase our love for Kṛṣṇa, we decrease our love for matter. So I have got a spirit to love. That I cannot stop. Similarly, there are many examples. Just like a boy or a girl. If he, she increases the love for another boy, another girl, he decreases the love for other boys and girls. This is natural. Similarly, if you increase your love for Kṛṣṇa, then you decrease your love for nonsense. So vairāgya, this detachment from matter, is automatically done. We have got the propensity to love something, at least a dog if not God. So if we turn our face to the loving attachment to Kṛṣṇa, then paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. If you are given better thing... Just like in children. He is loving something, but if you give him something better, something red, oh, he is attached immediately. He gives up the old thing and takes up the red thing.

So you cannot... The jñāna system, the yoga system is by force they are trying to detach. That is not possible. It may be possible for the time being. Just like Viśvamitra, a great sage. These are the historical references. He was a very great king and he wanted to realize self, and he began to meditate in the forest alone, as it is, this yoga system, that "He must be in secluded life. He must make his seat in a very sacred place and sit in this posture." There are... So he followed everything completely, perfect yogi. But as soon as Indra saw that "This man is performing a great yoga system. He may not acquire my position," so he sent one beautiful girl, Menakā, to entice him. So she came, she began to dance before her (him), and there was tinkling sound, and at once his meditation broke. And she was very beautiful, coming from heaven, so he became attached, and the woman became pregnant. Then she got a child, Śakuntala, and then Viśvamitra came to this senses: "Oh, I left my kingdom, I came to forest for meditation. Again I am going to be another kingdom." So he decided that "I shall go away." So Menakā tried to entice him, "Oh, why you shall go? You just see how nice girl you have got. Just see." There is a picture. Perhaps you have seen. And Viśvamitra is doing like this: "Don't show me anymore. Let me go away." Of course, he was very much advanced. He could go. But this allurement is always there. But Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful and so nice that if you increase your love for Kṛṣṇa, then you have no more any attachment for anything, any beautiful thing of this world. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Just like Kṛṣṇa and these gopīs. They came to Kṛṣṇa, giving up their all engagements. Some of them were engaged in, I mean to say, loving children, some of them were engaged in serving their husband, or unmarried girls, they were engaged to serving her father, brothers. But as soon as Kṛṣṇa blew His flute, they came, all.

*So similarly, if our attachment becomes very nice, very mature for Kṛṣṇa, then this viraktata, or detachment for material things, will automatically happen. But that is required, viraktata. And maunam. Mauna. Mauna means don't talk, grave. This is also very good qualification because generally, when we talk, we simply talk nonsense. That's all. We shall sit together and some friends or family, some useless talks, we shall go on for hours together. But if you are called to talk about Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad*-gītā or Bhāgavata, this philosophy, nobody will come. So better not to talk. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense, foolish. So generally, we are accustomed to talks, enjoy foolish talks, which has no meaning, neither any benefit for this material world, neither any benefit for spiritual world. If you are, of course, gaining something material benefit... Just like businessmen talk. They talk seriously if there is any profit. Otherwise the secretary says, "Oh, the Mr. such and such has no time to see you." That is also some good because time is so valuable. So why should we talk nonsense? So that is also very good qualification if you don't talk nonsense. Either you talk about Kṛṣṇa or don't talk. That is called mauna. If there is no subject matter for talking on the subject of Kṛṣṇa, then it is better not to talk. But we have got very nice engagement. We can talk Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you have no other engagement, then we have got these beads, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa..." You can day and night, twenty-four hours, go on. This is called mauna. And vijñāna. Vijñāna means perfect knowledge. What is that perfect knowledge? Perfect knowledge means to know Kṛṣṇa. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). The Vedic injunction is: "If you can understand the Supreme, then you understand the whole thing, because Supreme is the whole, absolute." Just like if you can understand one, two, three, four, five, six, eight, nine, zero, then you can understand the whole mathematics, because what is mathematics? One, two, three, four, three, four, one, two, just like that. That's all. The same nine figures, that's all. Similarly, the Vedas says, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply try to understand the Supreme Absolute Truth, that is the purpose of Vedas. And it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā also, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. What is the use of studying Vedas? What is the use of studying this Bhāgavata or...? To understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

*So here it is stated that maunaṁ vijñānaṁ santoṣa. Santoṣa. This is the result. If you are perfect in knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, then you are satisfied. Satisfied. Yasmin sthito guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate [Bg. 6.20-23]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ: "If one attains to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has no more to understand anything." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparam. He does not want any more profit in any way. He thinks that "I am completely..." Yasmin sthite, and the test is that if one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then guruṇāpi duḥkhena... Because the world, this material world, we are always in trouble. So a person situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not troubled at all, even if he is put into very trying circumstances. Guruṇāpi duḥkhena. This is the test. That is called santoṣa, and satya, truthfulness, āstikya. Āstikya means belief, faith, faith in scripture, faith in God. That is called faith. This is faith. And when that faith is very much concentrated, then one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Viśvāsa śabde sudṛdha-niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. This is called strong faith or firm faith. What is that firm faith? When one is convinced that "If I am Kṛṣṇa conscious, then all my duties will be perfect." And that is the fact. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. As I have several times spoken in this meeting, that "Let everyone be engaged to his specific duty. It doesn't matter what it is. But if you want to see that whether your function is perfected, then you have to test it, whether by your activities Kṛṣṇa is satisfied." Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. So this santoṣa. If you think that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied... How you can know Kṛṣṇa is satisfied? Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ: ** "If you can satisfy your spiritual master, then you should know that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. So if you are fortunate enough to have a bona fide spiritual master and if you can satisfy him, then you know that you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.

So we shall talk next week. Yes. Any questions? [break] No question? You have understood everything? Yes.

Guest (1): I'd like to ask. A vipra means he has the twelve qualifications, and he also has the qualification of faith. I don't understand exactly what it means when Prahlāda Mahārāja says that I should be meditating on a follower who has no faith in God or God watching him.(?)



*Prabhupāda: No. A vipra, because he is studying... Vipra means one who is engaged in the studies of Vedas. That is... Veda*-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. So if he is studying Vedas, then must be qualified with all the good qualities. Because just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that "These are the good qualities." So study means to accept the instruction. Study does not mean simply to become a book... No. Study means to apply practically in life what you learn from the Vedas. So if anyone is seriously studying, then naturally he is qualified with all the good qualities. Yes. No. You can say.



Devotee: (indistinct) believe in themselves or have faith on that or believe on that...



*Prabhupāda: That in the material world there are three qualities: the quality of goodness, the quality of passion, the quality of ignorance. These three qualities are working. We see varieties in this material world due to the interaction of these three qualities. So there are varieties of men. Some of them are in good quality, some of them are in quality of passion, some of them are in the quality of ignorance. Therefore they have got different types of faith also, not that your faith or my faith may be the same, because you may be in the quality of goodness, I may be in the quality of passion or ignorance. So faith is according to the particular quality of the person who is professing that faith. So the sattvic faith, the faith in goodness, that is faith in Brahman, the Supreme. That is called goodness, brahminical faith. And above this... This is sattvic. Sattvic means goodness. So goodness... In the material world even goodness is sometimes contaminated with tinges of passion and ignorance. herefore in the material world nothing can be in pure goodness. So one has to transcend the goodness platform of this material world and come to the platform of pure goodness, śuddha*-sattva, where there is no more contamination of passion and ignorance. That platform is called God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Guest (2): Is faith in God more necessary than proper protection?(?) In other words, is this process actually more necessary?



Prabhupāda: Well, when one has got faith in God he must have the necessary activities. Otherwise what kind of faith it is? Just like if I say that "I have faith in you, but I don't trust you," what kind of faith I have got? If I say, "My dear friend, I have faith in you," and if you want me to do something, I don't do it, then if I say, "How can I do it?" then what kind of faith that is? So this sort of faith is not required. Faith means real faith. So whenever there is real faith, there is activity also. That is faith. When there is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness, then there is activity for pleasing the God. Simply I believe in God simply for exacting things from God, that is a different type of faith. That is in the lowest stage. Just like a small child, he has got faith, but if a learned educated child, he has got different faith, "Oh, my father, my mother they have done so much for us," he wants to repay. He wants to oblige the father. That is also another faith, the same faith. So somebody is trying, "O God, give us our daily bread." This is also faith, but somebody is trying how to please God. He is not asking... Because he knows that "If God is father, then he is supplying bread to animals, to birds and beasts. Why not to me? So my bread is already guaranteed. So let me serve the father." This is higher type of faith. "Why shall I ask, bother my father? If he is father, then he has already made arrangement for my eating." That is natural. Does it mean that every day the child asks father, mother, "Mother, father, give me my bread." Oh, the father is already preparing bread for you. He'll call you. But he is lacking the faith. He is asking. Another is not asking. He is confident that "Father will give me bread. Now let me serve my father." This is higher type of faith.



*So the faith, there are different standards of faith. One faith is trying to exact, and one faith is trying to give everything. So these two types of faith. So which one is better? Anyone can judge. Just like Arjuna, in the beginning he had faith in Kṛṣṇa. He said, "Kṛṣṇa, please give me instruction. I am not talking any more as friend. I accept You as my spiritual master." So he had faith, good faith. Otherwise how he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master? But that faith in the beginning, and at the last faith, after learning Bhagavad-gītā, he said, "Kṛṣṇa, by Your grace I have got my memory." That means, "In the beginning I was thinking that I should give more importance to my grandfather, my teacher and my family, but I have learned that my only duty is to serve You. Therefore whatever You say, I'll do." This is another faith. The same man, the same Kṛṣṇa*-in the beginning, one faith, and at the end, another faith. So beginning faith is that God, understanding God. But unfortunately, at the present moment they don't believe in God, so there is no question of faith. They have lost all faith. This is the condition of the present society. What to speak of this faith or that faith, they have no faith. They have lost all faith, just like animal. Animal has no faith in God. That is the distinction between human being and animal. The animal has no faith, but in human society there is a kind of faith, either it is Christian faith or Hindu faith or Buddhist faith or Muhammadan faith. But when we give up this faith, then our position is just like animal.

*The present society is just like animals. They have no faith, what to speak of this faith or that faith. That is the position. They are simply after sense enjoyment. That's all. Don't you see? The Pope says that it is not good, it is not God's law, that you should use contraceptive method. But they are so mad after sense enjoyment, they say, "Oh, we don't care for your instruction." Just see how much they have lost their faith. So at the present moment it is very difficult position, no faith at all. [break] ...have no good qualification. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇa [SB 5.18.12]. Oh, their education, their scientific advancement, their so-called civilization... Don't you see? The everyone is expected to have national feeling, but the postal strike, mail strike went on for twenty days. The whole nation became disturbed and harassed. Why? They wanted money. "What is this? Go to... Your national feeling go to hell! You pay us. Then we work." So nobody has any faith. Simply he has faith in sense gratification. That's all. "You satisfy my senses. Then you are very good. Otherwise, go to hell." That's all. This is the position. And therefore they are denying the topmost head of Catholic Church, "We don't care for your instruction," because they have become faithless. And that is not their fault. It is fault of the heads of the churches. They did not teach them properly. They were satisfied simply by money. That's all. They did not try to teach them. Now what is the use of teaching? They have gone out of hand. The same thing: if you want to bend bamboo, do it while it is green. And when it is dried, oh, it is not possible. So now the whole society is faithless, godless, very precarious condition. So this process, our process, we don't impose any difficult rules and regulation. Please come here and chant with us and dance with us. At least, there is no loss on your part. If you think there is no gain, but at least there is no loss. So I should request you to come and join with us in our kīrtana. Then everything gradually will be clear. Any other question?

Pradyumna: Does straightforwardness, that ārjavam quality of a brāhmaṇa, does that include making the truth palatable to someone who will not understand the truth directly?



Prabhupāda: Yes. When you speak of higher truths, you don't care whether it is palatable to others or not. In social formality you can see. That has happened actually. Because the Pope, he was not strong enough in the beginning... Because some other Pope, he thought, "It may be unpalatable," he did not speak the truth. Now the other Pope is speaking the truth. They are not accepting. But from the very beginning the priests should have preached in every church, "My dear Christian brothers, you cannot use these contraceptive methods." They were never told in the churches. They were satisfied to get fees. That's all. Everywhere, not only in the Christian world. In the Hindu, in Christian, they don't care for any rules and regulations any more. But they profess that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muhammadan." (end)





680712SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.10

-

Montreal, July 12, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-

*pādāravinda*-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham

*manye tad*-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

[SB 7.9.10]



*This verse we have been discussing in the last meeting. It is one of the many verses in the prayers of Prahlāda Mahārāja to Lord Nṛsiṁha. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that a person who has dedicated his life, tad*-arpita-mano-vacana... Arpita means dedicated. Mana means mind. Vacana means words. So we act in this body, we act with our mind, with our words, and with our body. Mind, body, and words. This is the medium of exchanging our activities. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "One who has dedicated these three things, mind, body, and words, to the service of the Lord, I think he is best." How best? Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād. He's better or the best than anyone. In this material world the brāhmaṇa, the most intellectual person with twelve good qualifications Satya, sama, dama. He's truthful, he's controller of the senses, controller of the mind, he is simple, he is tolerant, he is full of knowledge, he is full of scientific knowledge, he knows everything of Vedas. These are the qualities of a brāhmaṇa. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says that in spite of having all these qualities, if one is aravinda-nābha-pādāravinda-vimukhāt, if one is averse to the service of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then, even though he's a qualified brāhmaṇa, even though he's the most intellectual person, he is rejected. And better than him is he who even born of a very low family, śvapacam. Śvapacam means the dog-eaters. The dog-eaters. There are different kinds of flesh eaters. So there are dog-eaters also. That I have already explained, that dog-eaters are considered the lowest of the mankind.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that even if he's born in the family of the dog*-eaters, but if he has dedicated his body, mind and words for the service of the Lord, he is better than such brāhmaṇa who has got all the good qualifications, but he has no attachment for God, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the comparison. Why you are giving so much importance to the man, even if he is born in a lower family? He says, manye tad-arpita-mano-vacana īhā. Īhā means endeavor. Anyone who has engaged this endeavor for the service of the Lord Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī has described about this person whose endeavor is always in the service of the Lord. How Just like the members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. What is their endeavor? Their only endeavor is how this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world. Why they're endeavoring? Because Kṛṣṇa wants it. Kṛṣṇa wants it. God wants it. Why God wants it? Because we are all sons of God. We have gone to dog. Instead of going to God, we have gone to dog. Therefore God is very anxious to reclaim us. He comes therefore in person, Kṛṣṇa. He sends His son, Lord Jesus Christ, or He sends His devotee. He leaves behind Him the books like Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or many other such literatures. Why? To reclaim these obstinate, bewildered sons of God. They have forgotten God, and they are, instead of loving God, they are now loving dog. Therefore God is very anxious. It is natural. If a father is very rich man and he has got many sons, he wants to see the sons very happy. But if the sons go away from home and becomes crazy, do not come back home, the father is more anxious than the son. The son does not understand that what is his precarious condition of life in this material world, but God understands that how much in miserable condition he's living. Threefold miserable condition of this material existence. He's always disturbed, but still, he does not wish to go back to Godhead. Therefore there is a constant endeavor on the part of God to reclaim these conditioned souls.

Who are conditioned souls? Those who have got this material body. They are called conditioned souls. Because this material body means you have to live under certain conditions. Just like I require fan. Why? Because I have been put into the condition of warm. I cannot tolerate it, but I have to live. Similarly severe cold. I do not want it, but I have to live. I do not want set fire at home, but there is fire, and there is fire brigade. In this way, in every step of our life we are always in danger. But foolish persons, they do not understand it. They are thinking that "I am happy." They are thinking... This is called illusion, māyā. Actually, he's unhappy in every step, but the spell of māyā or illusion is so strong that even in the lowest stage of life, anyone will think that he's happy. Even in the animals, you have experienced that so many animals, they are living in such a miserable condition, but still, he does not like to give up this body. But the pain is more felt by God than the living creature in this conditioned life. So it is always... There is always endeavor on the part of God to send His representative; He comes Himself, He gives book.

*So anyone who takes up this endeavor on behalf of God to reclaim these conditioned souls back to Godhead, back to home, he is considered the most intimate devotee, dear devotee of the Lord. It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ. If you want to become very dear to Kṛṣṇa or God, then try to take up these missionary activities. What is that? Spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased. If you want to live in a solitary place and perform yoga system for your personal elevation of self-realization, that is very good, undoubtedly. But if you try to convert others to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform, it is far better. Prahlāda Mahārāja, you'll find in his prayer, he'll say to the Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, "My dear Lord," naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyās, "this world is full of anxieties. That I know. And it is full of miserable condition. But I am not afraid. I am not afraid." Why you are not afraid? Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ: [SB 7.9.43] "Because I have taken to chanting of Your glorious activities. So when I chant Your glorious activities or Your glories, I become merged into the ocean of nectar. Therefore these worldly anxieties or miseries does not..., do not disturb me. I am quite safe." Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ. "Then why you are...? You appear to be very anxious. Why you are anxious?" "Yes. I have got anxiety." What is that anxiety? Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa: "I am simply disturbed for those rascals who are bereft of Your consciousness. Who have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I am simply anxious for them." Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. "Why you are anxious for them?" Because indriyārtha-māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. "These foolish rascals, they have created a very troublesome civilization simply for sense gratification. That's all. Their so-called advancement of civilization, machine and machinery and so many things, they've complicated. But what is their purpose? The purpose is indriya sukha. Indriya sukha means sense gratification. That's all. And what is that sense gratification? Māyā sukha indriyārtham. For the matter of the senses. Māyā. Māyā means illusion. It, this kind of sense gratification has no practical meaning. It is simply temporary, flickering. But I am hankering after eternal pleasure. And what this sense gratification will give me? They do not know. But they have invented a type of civilization full of activities simply for the matter of sense gratification. So I am simply anxious for them." So this is the business of a Kṛṣṇa conscious person. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person is not at all anxious for his personal self, because he knows perfectly that he is protected by Kṛṣṇa in all circumstances. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was put to so much difficulties by his father, but still he is steadily fixed up in his position because he knew that "My father cannot do any harm. I am fixed up." And actually it so happened.

So those who have taken very seriously to this business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are already free. I was just going to explain the word īhā. Īhā means endeavor. This īhā has been explained by Rūpa Gosvāmī very nicely. He says, īhā yasya harer dāsye. Īhā means endeavor. One who has engaged... Everyone is endeavoring. Nobody is idle. Everyone is trying something, do something, endeavoring something for higher position or higher distinction. So many things. The endeavor is there. That is the symptom of life. A living entity means he is always active. Resistance and activity. These are the symptoms of life. So īhā, this activity, endeavor... Rūpa Gosvāmī says īhā yasya harer dāsye. Anyone who has engaged in endeavors simply for Kṛṣṇa, Hari, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, karmaṇā manasā vaca... The same thing as Prahlāda Mahārāja says. Prāṇa, mana, vaca. Because these things required for endeavoring. We require our mind, attention. If you want to do, you have to have clear attention; you must engage your body, you must engage your words. So Rūpa Gosvāmī says, īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā vacā nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu. He may remain in anywhere, in any stage of life. It doesn't matter whether he is European, American, Indian, brāhmaṇa, śūdra, white, black, or this or that. It doesn't matter. But if he has simply engaged his endeavor for the service of the Lord, he is a liberated person. That is the definition given by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Īhā yasya harer dāsye.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja also says the same thing, that "I consider that person is better than the so-called qualified brāhmaṇa because his endeavors are engaged in the service of the Lord." Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ. A highly qualified materialistic person, he's proud of his qualification. Anyone. There are four things to become proud: janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. If one is born in very good family, high family, aristocratic family or rich family, he is proud. He's always proud. And one who is very wealthy, he's also very proud. And one who is very beautiful, he is also proud. And one who is very learned, a great scholar, he is also very proud. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that what this pride will help him? You may remain a very proud man, full of pride so long this body is there. That's all. As long the body is finished, your designation as Rockefeller finished. Your degree, M.A., Ph.D., finished. Your beautiful body finished. Your aristocratic family finished. Then you have to take another platform according to your work. If you have done works like again aristocratic or learned activities, then you get similar body. But in spite of all your acquisitions, you have played the part of a dog, then you are going to become a dog. Because after leaving this body we are completely in the hands of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. The Bhagavad-gītā says that the material nature is acting. I have got this body not according to my choice. You have got this body not according to your choice. Nobody can say that "Next life I shall get a body like this." There are so many, 8,400,000 bodies. So that choice is not in your hands. That choice is in your work. So if you, this body, work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then next body you are going to get a body like Kṛṣṇa. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā:

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*If anyone is always full in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always trying to understand Kṛṣṇa, always trying to engage himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa-that means fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness*-he is sure to get next body just like Kṛṣṇa.



*What is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and your body? That is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā also. When Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, You say that You spoke this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to sun-god, but I know that You are born just like me. Your age and my age is similar. You are my friend. How can I believe that You spoke this philosophy to sun-god, which means some millions of years ago?" So what was the reply of Kṛṣṇa? The reply was that "Your birth and My birth, there are many, many times. But I remember them all and you forget. That is the difference." Why we forget? Because we get a different body. Just like you remember you had been a child. Just like here is a small baby, he has got a small body. But when she'll be grown up girl she'll forget, because the body has changed. Forget. So because we change our body, therefore we forget. This is a fact. Just like when you, at night you are in dream. You forget your body. You are dreaming that you have got a body of a bird. You are flying in the sky and you have forgotten completely that you are Mr. and Mrs. such and such, lying in a room. You have forgotten. So in daily experience we can understand that due to change of body we forget. Death means change of body and forgetfulness. That is death. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You forget, you have forgotten, but I have not forgotten." That means indirectly Kṛṣṇa says that "I do not change My body, but you change your body." So we are all changing our body.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this person who is very much proud of his intelligence, his aristocracy, his wealth, his education, he can become proud, but by that prideness he cannot purify himself. But this person, even if he is born in the family of a dog-eater, because he has engaged his everything, mind, words, and body, in the service of the Lord, he can purify not only himself, but his whole family. That is the prerogative of a devotee. If there is a pure, sincere devotee in a family, then that family, up to seven generation up and down, they are also liberated. That information we have got in the Vedic scripture. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that proud man who is simply proud of his qualification of this body, he cannot even purify himself, and what to speak of purifying his family. But this man who is born even in the family of a dog-eater, but because he has engaged himself fully and solely in the service of the Lord, he not only purifies himself, but he purifies his whole family. Sa-kulam. This very word is prāṇaṁ punāti sa-kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ. Yata bhakti-hīnasya trai-guṇa garbhayoḥ(?) bhavanti. Here is a very nice commentary by Śrīdhara Swami that the difference between a devotee and nondevotee is this*-that a nondevotee is simply proud of his acquisition. That's all. He has no other qualification. But a devotee, because he is humble and meek, he thinks that "All these nice qualifications which Kṛṣṇa has given me, or God has given me, so much wealth, so much education, so much beauty, oh, let me engage these things to the service of Kṛṣṇa." That is the difference between a devotee and nondevotee.

There is a very nice verse of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, the difference between a great soul and a poor soul.

ahagata(?) caritrāṇi

vicitrāṇi mahasanam(?)

lakṣyams(?) traya tucchanti

tad bhareṇa namanti ca



*The difference between devotee and nondevotee is that if a devotee is rich man, then he will think, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has entrusted me with so much money. So it is Kṛṣṇa's money. Let me spend it for Kṛṣṇa." Prahlāda Mahārāja, Bhisma Mahārāja, and Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, and many, many great kings, they were very rich, but they engaged their money for the service of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly a devotee, if he is educated, he tries to apply his educational qualification in describing Kṛṣṇa by so many literatures, so many publications. That is the proper use. And Bhāgavata says, as I have several times explained before you, that svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. If you want to see tle perfection of your acquisition, if you want to take... Suppose you are a very great, learned man. Now you think over whether by becoming such learned man your life has become successful. That test is when you will see that you have engaged your learning in the service of Kṛṣṇa, then it is successful. Otherwise it is finished with this body. Similarly, take anything-learning, beauty, or wealth, or anything, whatever you possess. There are many good things to possess in this material world. But if that good thing is engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, or God, then it is success. Otherwise it is simply a burden, or it is finished as soon as this body is finished.



Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



760217SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.10

-

Māyāpur, February 17, 1976



*Dayānanda: "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued to think that a brāhmaṇa who has qualified himself with all the brahminical qualities, twelve in number, as they are stated in the book known as Sanat*-sujāta, such a brāhmaṇa, if he is not a devotee and averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is especially lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater even, but his mind, words, activities, wealth, and life-everything is dedicated to the Supreme Lord. Such a low person is better than a brāhmaṇa as above mentioned because such lowborn person can purify his whole family, whereas a so-called brāhmaṇa falsely in prestigious position cannot purify himself."



Prabhupāda:



*viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-

*pādāravinda*-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham



This is the verdict of the śāstra. Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham.



*manye tad*-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

prāṇam punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

[SB 7.9.10]



*Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction, that don't be falsely proud unless you have got the qualification. That is our mistake, dambha, dambha. And the pure life begins when we give up dambha, false prestige. Adambhitvam amānitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntiḥ ārjavam. This is the begin... One who is falsely proud, he is... (aside:) What is that sound? One should not be falsely proud. Everyone... Material world means everyone is falsely proud. Everyone is thinking, āḍhyo 'smi dhanavān asmi ko 'sti mama samaḥ, everyone. This is the disease. "I am the richest. I am the powerful. I am the very intelligent." Everything, "I am." This is called ahaṅkāra. Ahaṅkāra vimudhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. This false prestige... When one is absorbed with false things, he becomes vimūḍha, rascal. Ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. This is false prestige. We have to give up this false prestige. Ahaṅkāra must be there because you are a reality. You are not false. Your body is false, but you are reality. "I am soul." That realization must come. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Not that ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, "I am dog," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this." This is ahaṅkāra, this false ahaṅkāra. But giving up all these nonsense prestigious position... A dog is also thinking he's in a prestigious position: "I am dog. I can bark very loudly. Gow! Gow!" He's also thinking that. Similarly, if I also think, "I am Indian," "I am white," "I am black," "I am this," what is the difference? Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. He is completely under the control of material nature, and he's thinking falsely that "I am very advanced in...," so on, so on. This should be given up.



*So how it is given up? When one becomes devotee. Manye tad*-arpita-mano-vaca. One who has given everything to Kṛṣṇa, the, our sannyāsa, tri-daṇḍa, that is tad-arpita-mano-vaca. Tri-daṇḍa means "I am accepting, my Lord, three kinds of chastisement from You, that I dedicate my body, my mind and my vaca, my words." This is called tri-daṇḍa. You should understand, those who are sannyāsīs, tri-daṇḍa-sannyāsī. The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they take one daṇḍa. Eka brahma dvitīya nāsti. That is their philosophy, that "Only Brahman is there, and nothing else. So I am Brahman; *you are Brahman"*-one, monism. That is their philosophy. Of course, that is our philosophy also, because everything is Kṛṣṇa. There is nothing except Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad..., mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "Everything I am." But their mistake is that because everything is Kṛṣṇa, er, Kṛṣṇa is everything, therefore everything is Kṛṣṇa. No, that is mistake. That Kṛṣṇa explains, that:

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



*This is the mistake committed by the Māyāvādīs, that "If everything is Brahman, then whatever I worship, that is all right." That is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. Just like this microphone: it is Kṛṣṇa. But if I worship this microphone instead of the Deity, then I am a fool. Then I am fool. This is the mistake the Māyāvādīs commit. They put the argument, "If everything is Kṛṣṇa, everything is Brahman, so whatever I worship, that is Brahman." Kṛṣṇa says, "No. That is not. Everything is Myself." This is called simultaneously one and different, acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. This is there in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Kṛṣṇa is always in Goloka. Just like here is Kṛṣṇa. He's in Goloka, but He's so powerful, omnipotent... This is called omnipotency. In spite of His becoming in Goloka, He's everywhere. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and you or me. I am here; *I'm not in upstairs. I'm here only. But Kṛṣṇa simultaneously can be everywhere. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So many pretenders, they claim that they are God: "I am God." But are you present everywhere? Can you say what I am thinking now? No, that he cannot. Still, he claims, "God." Nonsense. How he can become God? If you cannot say what I am thinking now, then how you can become God? God is situated everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Everywhere. Paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Even within the atom there is God. So how you can claim God? Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Then they will answer, "I'm not in God now I am God, but māyā... Therefore I cannot say now." That... "Why you have become under the control of māyā? Then māyā is greater than God. Then how you can become God? Māyā is greater than God." So they cannot answer this. Because their theory is foolish, they cannot answer all these things. Actually, unless one is a devotee, he'll have all these bad qualification.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is thinking himself that "I am less than śvapaca." Just like Caitanya*-caritāmṛta author says,

purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha

jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha

[Cc. Ādi 5.205]



*He said that "I am insignificant, more insignificant than the stool*-worm." The worm... There are worms in the stool. "So I am lower than that." Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha: "My value is less than the worm in the stool." This is called tṛṇād api sunīcena. It is not that Kavirāja Gosvāmī is artificially posing in that way. No. He's sincerely... No Vaiṣṇava thinks himself, "I am very big man." No. He's not Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. This is Vaiṣṇava. Even he is exalted more than anyone in this world, still he thinks himself as lowest: "I am lower than the worm in the stool." Prahlāda Mahārāja, Vaiṣṇava, he is engaged to offer prayers to the Lord, Nṛsiṁhadeva. So he's thinking in that way, that "What...? What form of prayer I can offer? I am born in a demonic family, low-grade family, and Brahmā, he's coming from Brahmaloka, Satyaloka, Janaloka. They are so exalted. They could not satisfy the anger of the Lord, and I am born in low family. How can I do this?" This is his idea. But he's taking courage in this way, that in the śāstra it is accepted that even one is born in low, low-grade family, śvapaca... Śvapaca means the most low grade. They're eating pigs. No... According to Vedic civilization, the pig-eater, even cow flesh eater is given better position. But the pig-eaters, they are the lowest, śvapacas, untouchable. They are called untouchable. Any meat-eater is untouchable, but especially the pig-eater, śvapaca. In India still, no even meat-eaters... Generally those who are meat-eaters, they take meat of such animals like goats, lambs, like that, those who are meat-eaters. And they never take cow's flesh because cow is protected, go-raksya. So in the Bhagavad-gītā to the meat-eaters also it is said, kṛṣi go-rakṣya vāṇijyam [Bg. 18.44]. Even if you are meat-eater, don't eat cow. You can eat others animals. But don't eat... "We are śvapacas," śvapaca is there. So if you are at all meat-eater, you can eat pigs, goats, but don't eat cows' flesh. That is very sinful. Why it is sinful? Because it's a very, very important animal in the human society, very important animal. You get milk and milk products. Then your brain becomes very nice, memory sharpened. That is, therefore, important. Don't eat. It is economically.



*So śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Who is that śvapaca? Now, who has given everything to Kṛṣṇa, tri-daṇḍa. That means even a person coming out of the family of a śvapaca, dog-eaters, dog-eaters, pig-eaters, yes... Śvapaca, means dog-eater. Yes. Pig-eaters are also better. But the dog-eaters, they are the lowest. I think in China and Korea they are very much fond of dog-eating. So they are the lowest. So if... So here it is proof that dog-eaters or pig-eaters or any low-grade man is not prohibited to become a devotee. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They say that without becoming a Hindu or born in India, nobody can become brāhmaṇa, nobody can become sannyāsī. But here is the proof. In the śāstra it says, śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. The dog-eater is also highly praised. When? Tad-arpita-mano-vacana: "When he sacrifices everything-his body, his mind, his words-only for Kṛṣṇa." This is called tri-daṇḍa-sannyāsa. So why the low-grade man cannot be offered tri-daṇḍa if he is qualified? If he has dedicated everything to Kṛṣṇa, why he should be prohibited? No. That is not the śāstric injunction. Śāstric injunction is for anyone. Nobody is prohibited to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32], Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says even pāpa-yoni, less than the śūdra... Śūdra is also pāpa-yoni. Even woman is called pāpa-yoni according to strict... Striyaḥ śūdras tathā vaiśya. Vaiśya. Except brāhmaṇa and kṣatriyas, everyone is considered to be lowborn, according to the Vedic injunction. But not that because he is lowborn, he cannot elevate himself. That is not the fact. The present, so-called Hindu society is degraded because if one is born in higher family, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya*-he may be less than a śvapaca-he's accepted as a brāhmaṇa. That is the fault.

*But śāstra does not say that without... Even if you are born in a high family, brāhmaṇa family, kṣatriya family, and if you do not act or if (you) have not the qualification of brāhmaṇa, dvi-ṣaṭ, twelve qualifications... What is that? Dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda... That is explained, what are the twelve qualifications. Dharmaḥ: "He must be strictly religious principles." Dharmaḥ. Dharmaḥ begins strictly when one is fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. There begins dharmaḥ, because Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He says that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge. He comes to establish the principles of dharma. And why He is speaking, sarva-dharmān parityajya? Why? If He has come to reestablish the principles of dharma-dharma-saṁsthāpanārtha-then why He says sarva-dharm...? Sarva so-called dharmas, they are not dharma. Dharma means... Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the order that is given by God. That is dharma. And anything, so-called dharma, that is not dharma. That you manufacture, so many things. That is another thing. But real dharma, the... Just like I have several times explained, law means given by the government. You cannot manufacture law. That is not law. Similarly, dharma means the order given by God. That is dharma. Just like Kṛṣṇa says. He said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham: [Bg. 4.7] "When there is discrepancies, misuse of dharma, I appear." So He has appeared. He therefore said that "This is not dharma." You are declaring, "This is Hindu dharma," "This is Muslim dharma," "This is Jain dharma," "This is Christian dharma," "This is family dharma," "This is country dharma," so on, so on, so on. You have created so many dharmas. But Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all these dharmas." "Then what I..., shall I accept?" Mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is dharma. Otherwise there is no dharma.

*The Bhāgavata also says, dharmaḥ*-projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: [SB 1.1.2] "The so-called dharmas, cheating process, is given up, kicked out." Projjhita. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpena ujjhita. That is called projjhita. Śrīdhara Svami gives his note in this connection: atra mokṣa-vāñchā api nirastam. Anyone who is desiring for liberation, that is also cheating. That is also cheating. How you can be liberated? You are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Where is your liberation? You must serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your dharma. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. If you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, then you are immediately culprit, immediately punishable. That is going on. Māyā is engaged to punish.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhāre



As soon as. As soon as one tries to become independent without serving Kṛṣṇa, that means he is in māyā. He's in māyā. Immediately māyā is there. Just like as soon as you become a criminal, a thief, immediately you are under the jurisdiction of the police, immediately, without the... You may hide yourself for time being, but immediately you have become criminal. Similarly, as soon as one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately a criminal, punishable. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta... [Bg. 7.15]. He does not know what he's doing, this rascal narādhamāḥ, mūḍha. These mūḍhas... Therefore when we say that a man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is narādhamāḥ, mūḍhāḥ, that is a fact. But the world is such that satyaṁ bruyāt priyaṁ bruyāt ma bruyāt satyam apriyam. They want if you can say the truth, but don't say the unpalatable truth. But that is social etiquette. When you speak about spiritual life there is no such scope. You must speak the truth: "Yes, you are rascal. Because you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious: rascal, mūḍha. You are sinful. You are lowest of the mankind." Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ.



*So this is the test. This is the test, that as soon as one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately he comes to the group of sinful activities, rascaldom, lowest of the mankind, māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā, all knowledge taken away, and he's an asura, Hiraṇyakaśipu's family, Hiraṇyakaśipu's category. So this is not optional, that "If I don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is my wish, my desire." No. If you desire in that way then you'll be punished. You become immediately... You cannot say, "It is my optional. I may become a thief; *I may remain honest. That is my option." No. As soon as you become thief, you are punishable. Similarly, anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately punishable. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. The punishment will go on in various ways. That is going on. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. The punishment... This is punishment. That is presented by Kṛṣṇa. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. This duḥkha, janma-mṛtyu, repeatedly to take birth and die, this is punishment. But these rascals, they do not care for it. They have become so rascal that "Oh, oh, that mṛtyu? I shall die because it is nature." Why it has become your nature? Your nature is eternity. But they have no brain to understand. They have become so foolish. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The spirit soul... I am soul; *you are soul. I am not dying. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. But these foolish persons, they do not know. They accept death, birth and death, old age and disease. There is no remedy. The so*-called scientists, philosophers, they cannot give any remedy. The only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That they do not know. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. No. That is remedy. You have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*This is... If you want to be really happy, if you want to be really in your original position, eternity, then you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no alternative. It is not possible. It is not optional. The more you delay accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the more you are put into sufferings of this material world. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that... The brahminical qualification is certainly very good. Within this material world there are three modes of material nature: sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Those who are in the tamo-guṇa, they are the lowest, mūḍhā, narādhamā. Rajo-guṇa, they are little better. They have got some activities just like materialistic person. But sattva-guṇa, they are simply interested in spiritual realization. So spiritual realization means God realization. Unless one becomes a devotee... Just like in our Indian society, they say brāhmaṇa paṇḍita and brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. So paṇḍita, that is general qualification. Without becoming a paṇḍita, he's not a brāhmaṇa. But above paṇḍita, one has to become a Vaiṣṇava. Then he's perfect brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. So these are the twelve qualification of the brāhmaṇa enunciated in the dharma-śāstra. There are twenty kinds of dharma-śāstra. The most important of the dharma-śāstras is the Manu-saṁhitā. [break] ...doing all nonsense. Such kind of bhakti, aikāntikī harer bhak..., utpātāyeva kalpate: it is simply disturbance in the society, without full knowledge from the śruti-smṛti, if by sentiments one becomes bhakta. That is not bhakta. Bhakta must be following the regulative principles, the instruction of guru and so on.



*So here Prahlāda Mahārāja said the dvādaśa*-guṇa. The dvādaśa-guṇa is dharmaś ca, dharmasya satyaṁ ca dhāmaś ca tapaś ca amātsarya hi titiksa-anusūyava-yajñāś ca dānaṁ dhṛtiḥ sutaṁ ca vratāni vai dvādaśa brāhmaṇasya. So one must be qualified with these twelve qualities. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is given, nine qualities, so, śama dama satyaṁ śaucam, jñānam-vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma sva-bhāva... So you cannot become a brāhmaṇa simply by becoming a son of a brāhmaṇa. That is not possible. That is not the injunction. Just like you cannot become a high-court judge simply by becoming the son of a high-court judge. No. You must be qualified how to become a high-court judge. Then you'll be accepted. Not that... You cannot say, "I am... My father is high-court judge. I am high-court judge." That is going on. No. So here are the qualities of a brāhmaṇa, dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād viprāt. Must be there, twelve qualities, at least nine qualities. Then you become a brāhmaṇa. And Nārada Muni supports this in another place, that,

yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ

(puṁso) varṇābhivyāñjakam

yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

[SB 7.11.35]



Nārada Muni said, the greatest authority. He said that these are the qualities of brāhmaṇa, as described. If these qualities are found elsewhere, anyatra... Suppose a man is born in the śūdra family, but he had developed these qualities. Then he should be called a brāhmaṇa. And suppose a person is born in the brāhmaṇa family but he has acquired the qualities of śūdra or caṇḍāla. Then he should be called caṇḍāla. This is Nārada Muni's statement. And Śrīdhāra Swami gives his comment upon this śloka, that birth is not primary; the qualities are primary.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja also explained. Prahlāda means in the Satya*-yuga, long, long, millions and millions... The principles was this, that simply born in a brāhmaṇa family, he does not become, even with qualities... He must be a devotee. And a devotee, if he, even if he's born in a family of dog-eaters, he is variṣṭham. He is fully qualified. We shall discuss again.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



680714SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.10-11

-

Montreal, July 14, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*...manye tad*-arpita-mano vacanehitārtha-

*prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūri*-mānaḥ

[SB 7.9.10]



*So simply by becoming proud that "I have got so much material acquisition," nobody can compete with Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Anor anīyaṁ mahato mahīyan. Kṛṣṇa, if you compare Him, then you'll find He's greater than the greatest. Just like generally, transcendentalists, they have got idea of Brahman. What is that Brahman? Bṛhatvāt bṛhaṇatvāt iti brahma. Bṛhat means the great. God is great. Brahman, the great. Nobody can be greater. Bṛhatvāt bṛhaṇatvāt. And Brahman can expand to unlimited extent. Just like sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. You see the expansion of Brahma. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktir. Whatever we are seeing, the manifestation, expansion, this is Brahman. You can have little idea of the sky, but the sky which you are seeing, it is very little fraction, fragment, of the whole sky, Brahman sky. So Brahman is so great, and Brahman can expand. Bṛhatvāt. That which is greater than the greatest, and that which can expand unlimited, that is called Brahman. But in the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find Kṛṣṇa says, brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭha, that "I am the resort of Brahman. Brahman is resting upon Me." So who is greater? Kṛṣṇa or Brahman? You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭha. Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is distributed all over the universe. According to Vedic knowledge, the sunshine is distributing its shining all over the universe, and the stars or the moons, they're glittering, being reflected by the sun. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, nakṣatrāṇām aham śaśi. Kṛṣṇa says that "Out of the many stars, I am the moon." That means moons and the stars are on the same category. As the moon is a reflection of the sun, similarly the stars are also a reflection of the sun. So this shining you can see, it is expanded all over the universe. And whoever is coming in front of that shining, sunshine, it is glittering. Just like you can see sometimes an airplane running very high on the sky. As soon as there is reflection of the sunshine, it glitters. So everything in touch with sunshine, it glitters. So now, the sunshine is expanding all over the universe, but where is the rest of the sunshine? The sun planet. The sun planet, you can see that it is lying in one corner of the sky. But because the sun planet is lying in one corner of the sky, does it mean that sunshine is greater than the sun? No. Similarly, Brahman may be very great. There is no question about it. But Brahman effulgence is resting on Kṛṣṇa. That you'll find in the Brahma-saṁhitā:



*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*Yasya prabhā: "I worship the Supreme Lord, the prime, the primeval Lord Govinda." Why? Yasya prabhā prabhavato: "By expansion of whose bodily luster or effulgence, jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi, many, many millions and trillions of universes are generated in that brahmajyoti." Exactly like the, within the sunshine, the effulgence, there are millions and trillions of planets, similarly in the effulgence of Kṛṣṇa, bodily effulgence, there are millions and trillions of universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato [Bs. 5.40]. On account of His bodily luster being expanded, there are creation of so many millions and trillions of universes. But if you take it for granted that each star is a universe-no. That, according to Vedic literature, that is not accepted. But in each and every universe, there are millions and trillions of planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa [Bs. 5.40]. Aśeṣa means there is no end. Millions and trillions, there is counting, but here it is mentioned, aśeṣa. Aśeṣa means there is no question of count. Aśeṣa-vasudhādi. Vasudhā means planet where the living entities can reside. This is the meaning of vasudhā. No planet is without any living entities. Every planet is full of living entities. Vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. But each planet is particularly opulent in a particular way. Just like you can see the moon planet is particularly opulent by some particular feature. It is very cold. Similarly, sun planet, it has got a particular feature. It is very hot. So each planet has got a different particular type of feature. Vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam.



So this is the creation. Sarvam idam. Therefore the Vedic injunction, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. There is nothing except Brahman. But the Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not accept the varieties. They accept varieties as false. But we Vaiṣṇava philosophers, we don't accept varieties as false, but it is temporary. That is the difference. Actually it is so. Just like your body. Now if I say, "Your body is false. Let me kill you," will you agree? Then why should you call it is false? If it is false, then don't mind whether it is killed or it is left. No, it is not false. The theory of the Māyāvādī, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā... Jagat, this material world, they say it is false. We don't say it is false. It is temporary. That is the real termination, or terminology, that it is not false. So because it is temporary, so we have to make the best use of this temporary body. Don't take it as false. Just like a train... You have no experience in your country. In India we have got experience. When there is a little more stoppage of a mail train... The people of India, they are accustomed to take bath daily. So immediately they take some advantage, and they begin to take bath. And there are so many water taps in the station, and every tap is engaged. So to make the best use. Because they think that "We have got a half an hour at our disposal, so let us finish it properly." So once taken bath, then the whole day's journey is pleasant. Similarly, this body is not false. Not only this body, everything material. We don't take it is false. We take it as temporary. And temporary, how it should be utilized for our best purpose? Just like the mail passengers in the train, they are using the half an hour time for taking bath, utilize. Similarly, although this body is temporary, we can utilize it for the best purpose. What is that best purpose? Realization of Kṛṣṇa. If we can utilize this temporary body for utilization, for understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be fixed up in that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the best use of the bad bargain.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja therefore says in this verse, prāṇaṁ punāti sa*-kulam. One who has engaged himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, aravinda-nābha pādāravinda, lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, he purifies himself as well as his family. Purifies his whole family. Sometimes a Vaiṣṇava born in a village, he purifies the whole village. These are statements in authentic scriptures. So apart from village, a Vaiṣṇava born in a family can give the best service to his family because he purifies. Sa-kulam. The host of his ancestors and forefathers, everyone is purified. Na tu bhūrimānaḥ. But the person who is simply proud of being born of a brāhmaṇa family, and even if he has all the good qualities of a brāhmaṇa, but if he's simply proud, he has not engaged his qualification in understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that he is useless. Better than him is he who has engaged his everything, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Everything means I have got my body, I have got my mind, I have got my words. I can serve you by my words, just like I am serving you. Somebody can serve by his mind, somebody can serve by his bodily service. So everything should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then he is glorious. He is glorious. He is better than that person who is simply materially qualified and proud of his material qualification and acquisition but does not engage himself in the service of the aravinda-nābha, Viṣṇu.

*So somebody may question, "What is the profit? Suppose I am prepared to engage my life, my mind, my words, my wealth and everything in the service of the Lord. Then what is my profit? I become insolvent because I give everything to Kṛṣṇa. Then what I keep myself for me?" So Prahlāda Mahārāja is very... Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍo catur. Anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's very intelligent. So this question he is replying. Because the next question should be like this: "Suppose I am prepared to engage everything, whatever I have got, in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Then what is my profit?" Because we are always after profit. That should be. Any intelligent man should not do anything without any profit, but they do not know what is that profit. That is also answered by Prahlāda Mahārāja somewhere else. Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. The foolish human society, they do not know that their real profit is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa conscious, the same thing. Durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to be profitable by the external world. They are thinking that "I shall make profit by becoming a very big businessman," just like Ford and Rockefeller and so many. In our country, Birla. No. Durāśayā. That is your, what is called, durāśayā? The hope which is never to be fulfilled. What is called that in English language?

Devotee: Lacking?(?)



Prabhupāda: No. The hope. Suppose you are hoping something, but will never be fulfilled. What is called?



Devotee: Frustration.



Devotee: Dreams?



*Prabhupāda: No. Utopian, yes. That is the exact word. You are thinking something, building castle in the air. So Bhāgavata says durāśayā, utopian theory. He's thinking that "I shall be very great by doing this business or doing, having this education," or this or that. So many things. Everyone has got his own plan. But Bhāgavata says durāśayā, "This is utopian." Why this utopian they have taken? They are so much educated, they are so much wealthy, beautiful, and intelligent. Why durāśayā, utopian? Because bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They have taken their basic platform*-the external energy. So what is the fault there? Because external energy is itself temporary. The Māyāvādī philosophy, it is called false, but we say temporary. So what is the profit by temporary achievement? Just like... There are many instances. President Kennedy: with great endeavor he became a president. Temporary. The post is temporary, say five years or four years. But still, people, they exert so much energy. And even if he is president, if there is something wrong in somebody's mind, he is killed. So is it not utopian? His energy should have been utilized for self-realization, "What I am?" But if somebody wastes his energy to capture some utopian post which will be finished at any moment, so is it not utopian?



*Therefore Bhāgavata says they do not know their self*-interest. Bahir arthaḥ maninaḥ: "Being captivated by the external energy." Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. But why they are so much captivated? Andhā yathāndaiḥ upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Because they follow rascal leaders. Their leadership is andha. Andha means blind. And they are following the blind leadership. They are themselves blind. Why blind? They cannot see future. They do not know what is going to... Because they have no understanding that "I am eternal." This temporary body is only a flash in my life. I've changed so many bodies. Just like in this present existence I have changed my body so many times from my childhood to this old age. Similarly, I am changing my body. So this life, this body is temporary. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Andhā, and I do not see my future; *therefore I am blind. And the leader which is leading me, he is also blind. So a blind man leading other blind men, what is the result? The result is catastrophic. Therefore in spite of so many great leaders, politicians, scientists, educationist, the result is that problematic. The whole world is full of problems. They do not know what is their interest. The interest is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That they do not know. So it is the task of the members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness to preach this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore has ordered, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Whomever you meet, your business is just try to make him convinced of the instructions as given by Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā. That is the best service to the humanity.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says,

*naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija*-lābha-pūrṇo

mānaṁ janad aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte

yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānaṁ

*tac cātmane prati*-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ

[SB 7.9.11]



*It is very nice. So the question may be that "Because everything has to be offered to Kṛṣṇa, so does it mean that Kṛṣṇa is hankering after my riches? Because I have amassed so much money by hard labor, and Kṛṣṇa is very clever that He's trying to take it away?" Yes. (laughs) Yes, that is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhāgavata that yasyāham anugṛhnāmi hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ [SB 10.88.8]. The Pāṇḍavas, they were friends of Kṛṣṇa, and they were put into so many difficulties. Their kingdom was stolen, their wife was insulted, they were forced to live in the forest, giving up the kingdom-so many difficulties. Their house was set in fire, the other party, his cousin brothers. So Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, the eldest brother of the Pāṇḍavas... Practically this question was raised by Parīkṣit Mahārāja to Śukadeva Gosvāmī. The question was that Viṣṇu or Nārāyaṇa, He's the supreme opulent, Lakṣmī-pati, the husband of the goddess of fortune. So persons who are Viṣṇu-bhakta or Vaiṣṇava, why they become poorer? Why this contradiction? And the devotees of Lord Śiva... Śiva presents himself as the poorest man. He has no dwelling house even. He lives underneath a tree. And his wife Durgā, she is the proprietor of this universe. She is also following the husband. She has also agreed to live underneath the tree. Never complains, "Oh, my dear Śiva, you don't construct a house even. What is this?" She also agrees. That means they live very, in a wretched, poor condition. So this was the question of Parīkṣit Mahārāja, that those who are worshiper of this wretched Lord Śiva-not wretched, but he places himself in such condition*-they become very opulent materially. They have got very nice estate, very nice wife, very nice foodstuff. And the Vaiṣṇavas, who are worshiper of Viṣṇu, the most opulent, the controller of Lakṣmī, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata sevyamānaṁ, whom not only one, but millions and billions of goddess of fortune are always in His service, such opulent Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, those who are worshiper of Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa, why they become poorer? This contradiction was inquired by Mahārāja Parikṣit to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that... This is the process of great personality. He said, "I'll not answer this question, but this very question was inquired by your grandfather Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira to Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. And it is better to take the answer directly from Kṛṣṇa."



*So similar question was put. Because Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was a little doubtful, that "I am known as Dharma*-rāja, the king, personified religion, because I never tell anything lie and my life is so pious. So, and my brothers Arjuna and Bhīma, they're the greatest warrior. And our wife Draupadī, she is personally the goddess of fortune. So we are combined together, religion, goddess of fortune, greatest warrior, and above all, the greatest friend, Kṛṣṇa. Why we are in difficulty?" This question was asked. Kṛṣṇa... This question was asked not for their personal benefit, just to teach us that sometimes in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you may be put in difficulty, but don't, I mean to say, be hesitated. Fixed up. You should know Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Why? Kṛṣṇa says, yasyāham anugṛhnāmi hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ [SB 10.88.8]. He answered to Yudhiṣṭhira, "My dear Yudhiṣṭhira, the first test of a devotee is that I, if I show him special favor, then I take away all his wealth." Why? Why this sort of special favor? Because this material attachment is so great that one cannot go to Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, at the same time he wants material enjoyment, Kṛṣṇa sees his foolishness. Foolishness. Anyone who is making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness should not be envious, "Oh, he is so great. He is so rich man. He has got so nice palace. He has got so nice wife. I haven't got anything." Don't be. Because it is completely different life. Don't be captivated by the material opulence, even you are put into great difficulties. Because you are not this material body. You are spirit soul. So your progress should be steady on the spiritual platform.

So we shall discuss this point more. The time has passed. So Prahlāda Mahārāja will explain that why one should offer everything to Kṛṣṇa. That we shall discuss in the next meeting. Thank you very much. Any question?

Haṁsadūta: A devotee, he can be very poor, but is it okay if he's hankering after something for Kṛṣṇa? He sees, "Oh we haven't got anything. We need a house," or something like that? Why can't we... Can a devotee think like that, "Why can't we get a nice house like these people for Kṛṣṇa"? Is that all right?



Prabhupāda: Devotee thinks, "Why shall we not have a nice house?"



Haṁsadūta: For Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, for Kṛṣṇa he can have anything. That is a different thing. Not for himself. For himself, he should be satisfied whatever Kṛṣṇa offers. That's all. But for Kṛṣṇa he'll try to... Just like the example is Hanuman. Hanuman, he fought with Rāvaṇa. Why? Not for his personal sake. He did not fight with Rāvaṇa to take the kingdom of Rāvaṇa, become king there. No. He fought for Rāma. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness person's endeavor should be to give everything to Rāma. Not... But for himself he's completely dependent on Kṛṣṇa whatever position he may keep. It doesn't matter. He has no such perception, "Whether I'm..." He's always happy. Kṛṣṇa's service is so nice that he has no other idea what is happiness except Kṛṣṇa's service. So why shall he desire this or that? Naturally, he has no desire because he's already fulfilled his desire being in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But those who are thinking that "Becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious I shall become very rich, I shall become one of the richest men," that is his foolishness. That means he's not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He still requires to be more advanced. But actually one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that very consciousness is so happy that he doesn't want anything more. That very consciousness is happiness. Ahaituky apratihatā. There is no other cause. A real Kṛṣṇa conscious person does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious for any other purpose. That Kṛṣṇa consciousness is his purpose. That is the end. That is the means. It is not a means to achieve some thing else. Bhakti is such thing. Therefore bhakti is transcendental. It is not material, that... In the material world, in exchange of something you get something else, but in the spiritual world the endeavor and the achievement the same thing. So actually, a person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has no such desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. The exact definition you'll find in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu: anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Śūnyam means completely devoid of any other desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. And uncovered by the activities of knowledge or fruitive action. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Simply acting in favor of Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa wants this, I shall do it." "Kṛṣṇa wants this fight"*-Arjuna did it. Not for himself. We shall keep always in mind that Arjuna was engaged into fight not for his personal self. For his personal self he denied: "Oh, what shall I do with this kingdom by fighting with my brothers and grandfather? No. Kṛṣṇa, excuse me. I cannot fight." But when he understood that the fight is to be done for Kṛṣṇa, he took all the responsibility. Similarly, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not aspire anything for his sense gratification, but he will aspire for all the world for Kṛṣṇa's service. Is that clear? Yes. Yes?



Guest: Supposing if I were to become a devotee and I might be influenced to try to live like Śiva because richness doesn't appeal to me. But the problem is that in a country like this the winter is extremely cold, and if I try to live like Śiva I would freeze to death. So...



*Prabhupāda: I have understood. I have understood. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean that you falsely make some attempt. The... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna understood the Kṛṣṇa philosophy, and it does not mean that he became a naked fakir and went away from the fighting place, and without any clothing he began to travel. Is it that? No. The only thing is that he changed the account. The account was on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. So you haven't got to make such renunciation that you have to live underneath a tree or give up your dress, become naked. No. That is not... You have misunderstood. You should dress himself properly, you should eat properly, you should work properly, but not on your account, but Kṛṣṇa's account. That is the thing. That's all. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yukta-vairāgya ucyate. That is the difference between Vaiṣṇava philosophy and Māyāvādī philosophy. The Māyāvāda philosophy says that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "This world is false and Brahman is truth. So let me become renounced of all this worldly relationship and try to be one with the Brahman." That is Māyāvāda philosophy. We don't say that. We say that because Brahman is satya, truth, and because the world is created by Brahman, so this is also truth. This is also truth. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. That is the version of Upaniṣad. The thing is, difference between Māyāvādī and Vaiṣṇava, they do not know the proprietorship. We know the proprietorship. We don't accept anything as "I am the proprietor." This is mistake. This is māyā. Actually... If I take, "It is Kṛṣṇa's," then I am liberated. Just try to understand. You are sitting here. You know that this apartment or this loft belongs to somebody. So there is no harm sitting here, hearing here. But if you think that "This is mine," and if you want you take something out of this, then there is trouble. Similarly, this world belongs to Kṛṣṇa. If you have always that consciousness that it belongs to Kṛṣṇa... Just like a bank cashier. He knows that millions of dollars is coming to him, but he knows that "This is belonging to the bank. I am simply cashier." Similarly, you can deal with all the worldly things, but if your consciousness is Kṛṣṇa then you are free. Nikhileṣv apy avasthāsu jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate. In any condition of life if one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's always liberated. He's not affected. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not teach you to become a false renouncer. What is the use of becoming a renouncer? After all, you have got this body. How can you renounce it? Either you cover it with underwear or either you cover it with costly dress, you have to cover it. So that covering also belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So we have to be situated under the consciousness that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Nothing belongs to me." That is the actual fact. But by illusion we are accepting, "This is mine, this is mine, this is mine." We have to give up this consciousness and accept the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our preaching. Is that clear? Yes?



Mālatī: Swamijī, I don't understand when you say that you worship Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. I don't understand if Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu or Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa... There are several categories of living entities. Kṛṣṇa is also living entity. Viṣṇu is also living entity. You are also living entity. Lord Śiva is also living entity. Every one of us. But there are categories. Just like in your Montreal city, there are hundreds of millions of people. But someone's status is higher than the others. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original living entity. Govindam ādi*-puruṣam. Ādi-puruṣam means original. And from Him everything has expanded. Eko bahu śyāma. He has expanded Himself in many. So some of them are in the Viṣṇu category. The Viṣṇu category means they are almost equal to Kṛṣṇa. It is estimated the Viṣṇu categories, They have ninety-four percent opulence of Kṛṣṇa. And the next category is Śiva category. The Śiva category has eighty-four percent of all the opulence of Kṛṣṇa. And the next category is Brahmā category, Brahmā. Brahmā category means living entities, when they are perfect, they can obtain seventy-eight percent of the opulence of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is cent percent, Viṣṇu or Nārāyaṇa is ninety-four percent, Lord Śiva is eighty-four percent, and we, in our perfection, we are seventy-eight percent. Is that clear?



Mālatī: Well, I don't understand then why you'd worship Viṣṇu and not Kṛṣṇa. I don't understand that why then you'd go to Viṣṇu and not to Kṛṣṇa if Kṛṣṇa is higher?



Prabhupāda: Why do you take care of your child? Why not other child? They are also children. Why don't you take care? Answer this?



Mālatī: Because this child was given to me.



*Prabhupāda: You love him. That's all. Similarly, if you love Kṛṣṇa, that's all right. If you love Viṣṇu, that is also all right. But you cannot derive the same result by loving Kṛṣṇa and by Viṣṇu. Therefore it is your selection, whom should you love. Kṛṣṇa is cent percent and Viṣṇu is ninety*-four percent. So if you want to worship or love ninety-four percent, that is also almost Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is cent percent, pūrṇam. Mattaḥ parataraṁ kiñcid asti dhanañjaya. In Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that He is the supreme.



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*"I am the origin of everything, including Viṣṇu, Brahmā, Śiva, living entities, everything." Iti matvā. So intelligent persons, if I have to love, why not love the greatest personality, Kṛṣṇa, who is cent percent perfect? That is your selection. If you select ninety*-four percent, there is no harm, but best thing is why not cent percent. Is that all right? Not yet clear?



Mālatī: That part I understand. What I don't understand is why... Why would they take less than Kṛṣṇa? Why would you take less than Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa is cent percent, why take less?



Prabhupāda: I don't follow what you say. What is that?



*Haṁsadūta: Why would someone take less? Why would someone choose Viṣṇu and not Kṛṣṇa if they know that Kṛṣṇa is cent percent and Viṣṇu is ninety*-four percent?



Prabhupāda: That we have already answered. Why you like this child?



Mālatī: No, what I mean is...



Prabhupāda: That is your selection.



Mālatī: Then what I want to know is, if you worship Kṛṣṇa and you go to Kṛṣṇaloka...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Mālatī: ...and if you worship Viṣṇu, what happens to you? Where do you go? What happens to those people?



Prabhupāda: He goes to Viṣṇuloka.



Mālatī: And it's not... Is it eternal?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also. Any place in the spiritual sky, they are eternal. If that is your question... Now either Viṣṇu planet or Kṛṣṇa planet, they are all in the spiritual world. Or the impersonal Brahman, that is also in the spiritual world. So somebody wants to be merged into the Brahman effulgence, so that is also a spiritual world. Somebody wants to go into the Viṣṇu planet, that is also in the spiritual world. And somebody wants to go to this Kṛṣṇa planet, that is also in the spiritual sky. But there are differences even in the spiritual sky. The difference between spiritual sky and material sky is that everything in the spiritual sky, they are eternal, and everything in the material sky, they are temporary. That's all. Oh, so many? You, you.



Gurudāsa: Isn't brahmajyoti temporary in the fact that you can come back down to the earth? Back to the material world?



Prabhupāda: Brahmacārī?



Gurudāsa: Brahmajyoti.



Prabhupāda: No. Brahmajyoti means spiritual sky. This material sky means brahmajyoti is covered by material cloud. Actually, everything is brahmajyoti. Just like clear sky, but some portion of the sky is sometimes covered by cloud. Some portion only. The whole sky is never covered by sky. Similarly, some portion which is covered by this material atmosphere, that is called material world. That's all. Actually, the original sky is spiritual. Original sky is full of sunshine, but the covered portion means we cannot see the sunshine. Covered portion by cloud means we cannot see the sunshine. And similarly, this material sky means where we cannot see the spiritual effulgence. That is the difference. Otherwise, even this material sky is also a spiritual sky. The spiritual sky is the original status. Yes.



Guest: (asks long question about what questions he can ask.)



Prabhupāda: Yes, any question you can ask.



Guest: I have noticed when everybody touches their head to the floor. And this I find so disturbing (indistinct) another man and kiss their boots. I found that (indistinct). And to tell you frankly, I find it quite shocking, too, that people place their head on the ground before another man. And you are a man like that. You are a man of knowledge, and you're (indistinct). But yet I can't see of people their heads to the floor...



Prabhupāda: You have been asked to do that?



Guest: Nobody asked me, but I see everybody else does it.



Prabhupāda: Then why you are feeling so disturbed?



Guest: Because to me, people are people, and there's... No man is a God, and it's just appearing as if you were...



Prabhupāda: But as you are thinking that they should not, they are thinking that you should. (laughter) As you are thinking they should not do like that, they are thinking you must do that. Then what is it? Difference of opinion. Your vote is single and they are so many. So you have to follow the greatest majority vote.



Guest: Unless I am given a very good reason to do so...



Prabhupāda: No, I am answering your question. As you are thinking in that way, they are also at liberty to think otherwise. So you cannot encroach upon their thinking.



Guest: I will not do that.



Prabhupāda: So therefore as you are thinking that they should not have done, they are thinking you should have done. The real question is that they are following a system. So in that system the spiritual master is offered respect in that way. There is a system. And they don't feel any uneasiness by doing that.



Guest: But if I were to enter politics and..., and suppose I were to attack some people who have actually the leadership of foreign powers or something like that, and newspaper man would tell my opponents that that man has... [break]



*Prabhupāda: Newspaper man has poor vision. He's seeing "Indian" and "American" and "Canadian." So his vision is poor. If anyone thinks that "This Swamiji is coming from India, and the Americans or Canadians, they are offering their respect in that way," so he has to expand his vision in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Just like it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that,



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



So these obei... [break] ...is taught, just like Kṛṣṇa is asking everybody, Arjuna, that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is our system. Just like anyone who comes to the temple, he at once offers by falling flat, offering respect to the Deity. And the spiritual master is accepted as representative of the Deity. He's the living representative. That is the system everywhere. Just like in our India somebody was going as viceroy, representative of the King in England. Oh, he was being offered all the respect of a king. Nobody bothered, "Oh, he's coming from England. Why a brāhmaṇa should offer respect to the viceroy?" No. They never grudged. That is a system. The representative of a king, if he can be offered such respect, then how much respect should be offered to a person who is representative of Kṛṣṇa? (pause) Yes?



Devotee: Swami, is the idea that matter is neither created nor destroyed, but the substance is eternal but the form is temporary? Is that...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the way. Everything here in the material world is temporary. Anything you take, anything material, that is temporary. Similarly this body is temporary, this house is temporary, this country is temporary. Say some five hundred years ago, this was not Canada. It was something else. Similarly, in some other time, it will be different. So nothing is fixed up or permanent in this material world. Yes?



Guest: Some time ago, I... [break]



Prabhupāda: ...either belonging to the Indians or to the Canadians. It belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Actually, that is the fact. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We simply falsely say that "This is, belongs to Canadian," "This is, belongs to Indian," "This is, belongs to..." (end)





680817SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.11

-

Montreal, August 17, 1968



Prabhupāda: (singing)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*(devotees chant responsively:) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



*(devotees chant responsively:) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam aham bhajami.



*ālola*-candraka-lasad vana-mālya-vaṁśī-

*ratnāṅgadāṁ praṇaya*-keli-kalā-vilāsam

*śyāmaṁ tribhaṅga*-lalitaṁ niyata-prakāśam

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.31]



*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛttimanti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*(devotees chant responsively:) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija*-lābha-pūrṇo

mānaṁ janād aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte

yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānaṁ

*tac cātmane prati*-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ

[SB 7.9.11]



Now in the previous verse it has been explained that neither any material opulence, nor a qualified brāhmaṇa with twelve high qualifications can satisfy the Lord simply by such acquisition. One can satisfy the Lord simply by love and devotional service. Why? Doesn't He not... Then why so much opulence is created in erecting nice temple or churches and so much money is expended? Does it not satisfy the Lord? Why they are spending so much money? The modern economist says that this is unproductive investment. Because if you construct a very big temple... Just like in India we have got many temples, especially in South India, each of them is just like a fort, very big fort. There is a temple in Raṅganātham, it is a few miles temple. There are seven gates. Very big temple. Many other temples. Similarly, in your country also there are many nice churches. I have traveled all over America, and I have seen very big churches. Here also, in Montreal, there are many big churches. So why they are spending so much money, although the modern economist will say it is nonproductive investment?



*So this church building or temple building or mosque building is coming down from time immemorial. People are investing their money, hard*-earned money. Why? Uselessly? Nonproductive? No. They do not know. They do not know how much productive that is. Therefore in this godless civilization they have stopped building nice, decorated... In Vṛndāvana there is a temple of Govindajī that was seven-storied. Four stories was broken by Aurangzeb on political grounds. Still, three stories are still remaining. If somebody goes there he'll see how wonderful workmanship is there in that temple. So does it mean that those kings or rich men, they were all fools? Simply at the present moment we are very intelligent? No. They are not fools. That is explained in the Prahlāda Mahārāja's prayers. Naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija-lābha-pūrṇo. You cannot satisfy the Supreme Lord by constructing a nice temple, but still He is satisfied. Still, He is satisfied. He is nija-lābha-pūrṇo. He is fully satisfied in Himself because He has no want. We are in want. Suppose I am renting one small apartment. If somebody says, "Swamijī, come on. I shall construct a very nice palatial temple. You come here." Oh, I shall be very much obliged. But does Kṛṣṇa, or God, is like that? He can construct so many nice planets, not only one, two, but millions and billions, with so many nice oceans and hills and mountains and forests, and full of living entities. And why He is hankering after a temple constructed by me? No. That is not the fact.

*The fact is that these fools, these rascals who are thinking that this world is for their enjoyment, this money belongs to him... It is stated here, aviduṣaḥ. Aviduṣaḥ means rascal, without any education. Without any education. They have got all these university degrees and without education? Yes. Why? Because they have no spiritual education. So aviduṣaḥ. So mānaṁ janam aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte. When Kṛṣṇa says or God says that "Give Me this...," Just like He is begging from Bali Mahārāja, Vāmanadeva, "My dear King, will you give Me a little land?" So his spiritual master, he was a demon. He forbade Bali Mahārāja not to promise, because He is Viṣṇu. "He'll take everything from you." That's a nice story. Some of you know how Bali Mahārāja became a great devotee of the Lord. Now here it is stated that mānaṁ janād aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte. Whatever He wants from any person, provided he is a devotee... The Lord does not accept anything from nondevotee. That is clearly stated in Bhagavad*-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26].

*Here it is stated, nija*-lābha-pūrṇo. He is so opulent that He has no hankering. Complete. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya pūrṇaḥ. He is complete with full six opulences. He is the richest, He is the wisest, He is the most famous, He is the most strong, influential, and renounced order. Everything is complete there. Then why He is asking that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati? He is so rich, so opulent, still He is begging that "Little flower, a little water, a little fruit, if offered to Me with devotion and love, I accept and eat it." So the real fact is that we have lost our devotion, faith, in God. So He is begging therefore that love and faith. Not your money. Because He is already opulent. What you can give Him? And what belongs to you? Nothing belongs to you. You come from the womb of your mother openhanded, and when you die you go openhanded. So what does it belong to you? Nothing belongs to you. That's a fact. Simply by illusion, you come here for some days and you think, "This is mine." That's all. This is called māyā. Actually, nothing belongs to you. Everything belongs to God, or Kṛṣṇa. But you claim that it belongs to you. That is your māyā. Therefore here it is said, mānaṁ janād aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte. Out of His causeless mercy He begs sometimes, "Give Me this." Just like sometimes father asks his child, "My dear boy, will you kindly give me a little cake from your portion?" And if the child is very fond of her (him), immediately gives. And sometimes he refuses, "No, I shall not give it." Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is full. Why He's begging? He's begging your love. That's all. Whenever Kṛṣṇa wants some service from you or begs something from you, it does not mean that He is in need of it. He is not in need of it. But He is in need of your love because you have forgotten how to love God, how to love Kṛṣṇa. That he is practiced(?).

There is a story that some sannyāsī went to a householder, because a sannyāsī goes to householder for begging. They are begging also like that. They are not beggars, but they introduce as beggar so that the householder may receive and take some advantage of his knowledge. He is not beggar. So one beggar went to a householder, and the housewife said, "Oh, this beggar has come from door to door. Give him some ashes." So the sannyāsī replied, "All right. Give me some ashes. Just begin your charity." Just begin your charity. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa, when He wants, "Give Me a little flower, a little fruit, a little water," it does not mean that He is begging. He is just inducing me to the practice of offering everything which belongs to Kṛṣṇa.

īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ

yad kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā

mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam

[Īśo mantra 1]



The *Īśopaniṣad* instructs us that everything that is within your vision, it belongs to Īśa, the Supreme Lord. Whatever you see, whatever you have got, that does not belong to you; it belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. This is the first verse in *Īśopaniṣad*. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. You can simply enjoy whatever is given to you as prasādam. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. Don't touch any other's property. This is the instruction of *Īśopaniṣad*.



So we have forgotten this. So in order to instruct us the principle that everything belongs to God, this is the beginning, that we should try to offer whatever we have got. Kṛṣṇa is ready to accept from you a little bit of water, little bit of flower, a little bit of leaf, or fruit. Practically it has no value, but when you begin to give to Kṛṣṇa, then gradually a time will come when you'll be prepared to give everything to Kṛṣṇa like the gopīs. This is the process. Sarvātmanā. Sarvātmanā. Sarvātmanā means with everything. That is our natural life. When we are in consciousness that "Nothing belongs to me. Everything belongs to God, and everything is meant for God's enjoyment, not for my sense enjoyment," that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to be situated in the actual fact. Whenever we claim something that "This is mine," it is called moha, illusion. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Janasya moho ayam. This conception of "mine" and "I" is the platform of illusion. Janasya moho 'yam. This world, whole world, is moving under this illusion that "I am this body, and everything..." "I am the monarch of all I survey." This is the philosophy. "Whatever I can acquire, that is mine." This is wrong. This is called illusion.

*Therefore we should try to give to Kṛṣṇa, not to ask. Because He has given us everything without asking. Without asking. We go to temple or churches to ask for our daily bread, but the birds and beasts, they have no churches, no temples, they do not ask. But how do they get their bread? Therefore according to Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, there is no actually bread problem. The only problem is that we have forgotten our relationship with God. Whatever... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. Therefore the instruction of Bhāgavata is, "Just try to revive your lost relationship with God, or Kṛṣṇa." That relationship is never extinguished, but sometimes it is covered. Just like a crazy boy forgets his father and mother and home, goes away. But the relationship between the son and the parents cannot be lost. As soon as the son comes back, the parents receives him very nicely. Similarly, we are all sons of the Supreme Lord. We have forgotten our father, we have forgotten our relationship, and we are loitering in this material world as helpless, and if we revive our consciousness, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "My home is in the spiritual world. I am a foreigner in this material world..." Just like a foreigner is traveling from one place to another, similarly, I am also changing my body from one body to another, one planet to another. But there is no permanent settlement anywhere in this material world. This is our condition.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to be rightly situated in the original consciousness that we are all sons of God, Kṛṣṇa. We have got eternal relationship with Him and He is the richest, the most opulent. As a rich man's son has no scarcity, no want, everything is supplied amply... Just like the Americans, they are... American or many other Western countries, the young men, they belong to a rich nation, so practically they have no want. But still why they are becoming hopeless and confused? Because this material want is not all. There is spiritual want. Unless that spiritual want is fulfilled, unless that spiritual relationship is reestablished, nobody can be happy. So in order to make us happy, Kṛṣṇa says that "Begin with little flower, little water, or little fruit, and try to offer Me."

mānaṁ janād aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte

yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānaṁ

*tac cātmane prati*-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ



Just like if you decorate your face very nicely, how your face has become beautiful you cannot see. You cannot see. But as soon as you bring one mirror before your face, you'll see that in the mirror the reflection of your face is very nicely decorated. The same example is given here. We are reflection. We are reflection of God. Just like in the Bible it is said, "Man is made after God." God is not made after man. That is a mistake. The modern atheist class of men, they suggest that we manufacture a form of God according to our own form. Just like Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, the picture is there. They allege that we have made a Kṛṣṇa form, maybe very beautiful, according to my form. But actually it is not. The Biblical truth is that man is made after God. Because we are sons of God, therefore God has got two hands, you have got also two hands. Just like your father has got two hands and you have got two hands, so you are made according to the body of your father, not that your father's body is made after your body. This is rationalism. Similarly, God's body is not made according to your body, but your body is made according to God's body. But this body is material; therefore we have to change. When we come to the spiritual platform, we get as good a body as that of Kṛṣṇa, which is eternal, full of bliss and full of knowledge. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Now here it is said, yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānam. Whatever you are offering to Kṛṣṇa... Practically, we see that we are offering so many nice foodstuffs to Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa, apparently it appears that Kṛṣṇa has not eaten. The prasādam is distributed among the devotees. Similarly, whatever is offered to the Supreme Lord, He is not in need of it, but He accepts it. He spiritualizes it, and it is meant for you. You are gainer. Whenever there is some special function to offer some nice foodstuffs to the Lord, you can take the prasādam, so actual gainer you are. But you are gainer in both ways. You taste very nice foodstuffs, at the same time you regain your spiritual consciousness. So yad yaj bhagavat..., yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānam. Whatever honor, respect, or presentation is given to the Lord, it is enjoyed by Him. It is enjoyed by Him. So how it is so? Just the same example: just like you decorate your face, but you cannot see directly how your face is beautiful. But when you put your mirror before the face, on the reflection you see very nice decoration. Similarly, if you decorate the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa... That is the system of temple worship. Very nicely decorated temple, very nicely decorated Deity, all nice foodstuff offered to the Deity*-you will feel enjoyment. The more you do that, you'll feel enjoyment. It is not nonproductive. It is very spiritually productive process. Yad yaj jano vidadhīta. Ayaṁ prabhur īśvara. Īśvara, prabhu means īśvara. Naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija-lābha-pūrṇo. Prabhu means īśvara. Prabhu means master, controller. If a person is controller, master of a big establishment, so what the laborer can offer him? He is already the proprietor. So here it is said, īśvara aviduṣaḥ akalpād janād mānaṁ pūjām ātmano 'rthe na vṛṇīte. So do not foolishly think that the prescription given in the śāstras that whatever you have got, offered to Kṛṣṇa or offered to God, it is not that God is in want; *it is your interest. The more you give to God, the more you become benefited. It is your interest. But the foolish persons, they do not know it. Therefore God, like Bali Mahārāja, He goes, like Vāmanadeva, He goes to beg from Bali Mahārāja. And His representative, devotees of God, sannyāsīs, they also go to beg: "My dear sir, give us some contribution for our temple." It is not that he's beggar. It is for the person's benefit. He's spoiling his life in sense enjoyment, and this representative goes to him and takes some money from that hell*-going activity and offers it to the Deity so he'll be saved. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Willingly or unwillingly, if you offer something to God, that will be a permanent credit. A permanent credit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even little done, it can act so nicely that sometimes it can save you from the greatest danger.

*Just like Ajāmila. The story of Ajāmila is that he was a son of a brāhmaṇa, and he was very nice boy. He was married, and he was acting just like a brāhmaṇa boy. One day he went to collect some flowers and some wood from the forest for his father's worship. His father was worshiping Deity, and he was helping. On the path he saw that one śūdra and his wife, without any shame, they were embracing and kissing. This young boy became attracted. Therefore this system, that loving exchange or affairs should not be exhibited on the street. This is not very civilized form. In India it is not at all allowed. It is calculated indecent. There is punishment by law. But here the practice is different. But why it is so strict according to Vedic scripture? Here is the example. A young man was passing, and another young man and girl was embracing. Naturally he became excited. And of course this kind of embracing and kissing on the public street is done not by any high class. So he was a śūdra. So this Ajāmila was standing there, and the śūdrāṇī or the śūdra woman also called, and he became more excited, and he embraced and kissed her, and gradually became attracted to her. And he left his wife and home and father and mother, then became drunkard and everything for that prostitute. At the last moment, when he was old enough, when he could not earn, he could not cheat to bring money, the man Ajāmila was thrown in the street by that woman. Because she was not his legalized wife, she was prostitute. So did not like him. But this man had a youngest son whose name was Nārāyaṇa. So when he was in precarious condition, he was just asking his youngest son Nārāyaṇa, "My dear boy, please come here." And by reciting this word "Nārāyaṇa," he remembered the same Nārāyaṇa whom he worshiped in his early age. Just see. Because under the direction of his father, as a brāhmaṇa boy he was being trained up to become a devotee of Nārāyaṇa, but unfortunately, he was misled by a prostitute, but still, he was saved at the last moment. And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt.

*So anybody who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, even for a moment, it will never go in vain. It will act. It will act, and it will act so nicely that sometimes he'll be saved from the greatest danger. That experience some of our students have already expressed. One girl is present here, she also experienced this. She was attacked by some black Negroes, and she began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and she was saved. So these things are actual fact. There are many instances. So svalpam apy asya trāyate mahato. So anything, a little flower, a little fruit, a little water, you offer to Kṛṣṇa, or if you chant for a little while Hare Kṛṣṇa, or if you make association with devotees for a moment, this will never go in vain. So the purpose of opening so many centers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to give chance to these forgotten men, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a business. It is a charitable institution. It is hospital to cure the material disease. So unfortunately, people are not taking very much advantage, but those who are fortunate, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Bhāgyavān. So only the fortunate persons. As it is also expressed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. One who is completely free from all sinful reaction, such person can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the door is open for everyone. Everyone can come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult job. We distribute prasādam. So take advantage and be benefited in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*Nanda*-kiśora: When a living entity becomes pure soul...



Prabhupāda: Oh, where is your neck...?



*Nanda*-kiśora: Oh, I...



Prabhupāda: [break] What is the harm? All right? Then?



*Nanda*-kiśora: When a living entity becomes pure, purified, he is called sac-cid-ānanda, he has perfect knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa is also sac-cid-ānanda. Is that knowledge the same?



Prabhupāda: No. A living entity is subjected to be deluded by māyā. But Kṛṣṇa is not deluded by māyā. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and living entity.



*Nanda*-kiśora: But the knowledge that a pure devotee has, that's not the... Even though it's perfect knowledge...



Prabhupāda: No. It cannot be as perfect as Kṛṣṇa's. That is not possible. Because you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a drop of ocean water and the vast mass of water, quantitatively they are different. Qualitatively they are one. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa has knowledge and you have knowledge, but the quantity of Kṛṣṇa's knowledge and your knowledge is different. He is full of all knowledge. You are almost full of all knowledge, but not exactly like Kṛṣṇa. And especially in your conditional life you are covered. All your knowledge is covered. Even that fragmental knowledge is also covered. Therefore you are in illusion. Because we are fragmental, therefore we are subjected to be covered by the illusory spell. Just like the sky and the sun. Sometimes there is covering by cloud. The cloud covers a few miles or the cloud covers the eyes of living entities like us, but the cloud does not cover the sun or the whole sky. That is not possible. But a fragmental portion of the sky is covered by cloud, and because we are very teeny, if the cloud is spread only for ten miles we think, "Now the sun is covered." The sun is never covered. Similarly, the illusory energy cannot cover Kṛṣṇa, but it can cover you. And we are in this covering condition. Therefore we have forgotten our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Now we have to uncover by Kṛṣṇa's grace, or we'll have to go to the sunlight. It is not that the sun is covered by clouds. Where there is no cloud, if you go there, you'll get full advantage of the sunlight. Similarly, we have to search out place where there is no cloudy understanding. There must be clear understanding. Then you'll find yourself satisfied in the light.



Haṁsadūta: Swamijī, in one of Professor Sanyal's books he says that the mind is an organ of the soul. Is that correct? I always thought the mind was part of the material, the subtle body, the subtle material body.



*Prabhupāda: No. Organ of the self. It is covered by the material energy. Originally, you have got everything. You have got mind, ego, and everything. Just like when I think, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is also ego, "I am." But that is pure. But as soon as I think "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this body," that is impure. This is impure egoism, and that is pure egoism. So ego is there. Similarly, mind is also there, intelligence is also there, but when it is covered by this material contamination it is called māyā, and when it is out of material contamination, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I shall act for Kṛṣṇa, I shall live for Kṛṣṇa, I shall eat for Kṛṣṇa, I shall prepare foodstuff for Kṛṣṇa, I shall sing for Kṛṣṇa*-everything Kṛṣṇa," that is liberated stage.



Haṁsadūta: So that mind is part of the soul. It's just, it's polluted.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a symptom of... Mind is the active principle. Without mind, how can you act? The mind is there. But at the present moment, becoming covered by the material energy, everything is contaminated. Mind is contaminated, the intelligence is contaminated, the ego is contaminated, I, or self, I am contaminated. Everything is contaminated. When you have got fever, there is pain all over the body. There is temperature all over the body. And when the fever is off, there is no temperature. Similarly, it is the difference of consciousness only. As soon as we take material consciousness, it is to be understood in feverish condition. And as soon as you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are out of feverish condition. You want to ask? Yes, you can ask.



*Nanda*-kiśora: Swamijī, what is... The material elements are described, the mind, intelligence, and false ego. What's the, what is that mind, you know, that material mind? In other words, there's a spiritual mind and a material mind?



Prabhupāda: What is the difference of your material life and spiritual life?



*Nanda*-kiśora: One is for Kṛṣṇa, and one is for...



*Prabhupāda: That is the difference between material mind and spiritual mind. Because you are thinking that you are this body, this is material conception. Therefore everything is material*-mind, intelligence, and identification, everything material. Similarly, if you think, that thinking means mind, that you are Kṛṣṇa's, then everything is spiritual. That we have to practice. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to keep ourselves always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Īhā yasya harer dāsye. And what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to... Īhā. Īhā means desire. Desire is a function of mind. So īhā means desire. So what is that desire? Īhā yasya harer dāsye. Anyone whose desire is to engage himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa. So whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness activity is purification of the mind, of the intelligence, of the ego, everything, purifying process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. The impurification is that upādhi, designation. I'm thinking "I am American," "I am Indian." This is designation. Actually, spirit soul is neither American nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim. So one has to get out of this entanglement, material entanglement. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. And how one can become purified? Tat-paratvena, when he identifies himself, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I am Brahman, I am pure self. I'm not matter. I'm not this body." This is the stage of purification. And when one is purified, then hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. Hṛṣīka means senses. So mind is also one of the senses. There are eleven senses. Five senses gathering knowledge and five senses working, and mind is the center. So mind is also accepted as sense. So hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When your purified senses are applied in the service of the master of the senses, Hṛṣīkeśa, that is called bhakti. This is the definition of bhakti. So mind required there. You are thinking that "I shall decorate Kṛṣṇa in such a way." That is a function of mind. And as soon as you think that "I shall decorate my such and such person in this way," that is māyā. So mind is there. Sometimes it is acting for māyā, and when it is acting for Kṛṣṇa then it is purified. So in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness nothing has to be eradicated. Everything has to be purified. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness process. Yes?



Mālatī: When they go back to Godhead, some people can remember their past lives.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Mālatī: In the mind.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Mālatī: I thought the mind was left behind.



Prabhupāda: No. Actually mind carries you to the next body. So mind goes with you. The material mind, material ego, material intelligence become nil when you are completely liberated. But at that time your spiritual mind acts. It is not very difficult to understand. Somebody is acting under the impression... Just like one of our students, he was acting under the impression that he is Frenchman and doing something subversive, and now he is thinking that "I am Kṛṣṇa's." (chuckles) He has stopped all those nonsense. [break] When he was thinking that he's a Frenchman, that mind was there. And now he's thinking that "I am Kṛṣṇa's," the mind is there. So where is the chance of losing the mind? You want to question anything? [break] This boy?



Haṁsadūta: She. It's a girl.



Prabhupāda: It is a girl? Oh. That's all right. (chuckles) So any other questions? Otherwise chant Kṛṣṇa. Yes?



Mālatī: I don't understand how materialistic people, if they have material minds, they can remember their past lives.



Prabhupāda: Material mind has to be treated by spiritual medicine, then the material mind will be spiritual. Just the same example, that a man has got some bowel disturbance by drinking excessive milk, and the physician gives him another milk preparation, curd, and he is cured. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to treat the mind by Kṛṣṇa engagement. Then he becomes freed from material contamination. And actually it is happening. Those who are taking to this treatment, they are experiencing how it is happening. The door is closed? Why? Open. (kīrtana) (end)





760218SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.11

-

Māyāpur, February 18, 1976



Dayānanda: "Specifically the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead, is always full of satisfaction by Himself. Therefore, when something is offered to Him, it is for the benefit of the devotee. The Lord does not require any service from anyone. The example is given here that if the original face is decorated, then the reflection in the mirror is seen with face decorated."



*Prabhupāda: Naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija*-lābha-pūrṇo [SB 7.9.11]. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). Everything is complete; *therefore Kṛṣṇa is God. Everything, whatever we require... We require money, aiśvarya. We require strength. We require influence. We require education. So many things we require. Ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. Nija-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. Another definition of Kṛṣṇa is He's full with six kinds of opulences. So He's sufficient to fulfill His desire. He doesn't require anyone's service. Just like we are in need of so many things; *therefore we require others' help. But Kṛṣṇa does not require anyone's help. Then why He accepts worship? That is the... That is for the benefit of the devotee, not for His personal benefit. Just like Lord Rāmacandra. He... His one wife Sītādeva was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa. Of course, Rāvaṇa cannot kidnap. It was externally, Māyā Sītā. Still, taking for exception Sītā was kidnapped, so Lord Rāmacandra could have possessed many millions of Sītā by His will, but for one Sītā He had to fight with Rāvaṇa and finish the whole dynasty, because Rāmacandra is the ideal king. It is the king's business to chastise such rogues and ruffians. That is king's business. That is for the benefit of Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa means the same Hiraṇyakaśipu. Kumbhakarṇa*-Rāvaṇa. First they became Hiraṇyakṣa and Hiraṇyakaśipu, the next, Kumbhakarṇa and Rāvaṇa, and the next, they became Śiśupāla and Dantavakra. In this way, because Kṛṣṇa wanted to give them liberation again back to home, back to Godhead, so this killing of Rāvaṇa, killing of Hiraṇyakaśipu, killing of Śiśupāla, is for the benefit of the persons, not for Kṛṣṇa's benefit. He killed them for their benefit.



*So whatever Kṛṣṇa does, that is for our benefit. Kṛṣṇa incarnates, comes here... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. So He has no benefit by coming here, neither He has any loss. He's so complete that there is no loss, no benefit. But His mission is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya... [Bg. 4.8]. Just to keep balance of the demonic activities and to favor the devotees, both of them are benefited. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām, those who are devotees, they are also benefited, and the demons who are killed by Kṛṣṇa, they are also benefited. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is all good. "God is good" means when He's favoring somebody and when He's killing somebody, both of them are benefited. Therefore God is always good, both ways. Nija*-lābha. He has no business to kill anybody as His enemy. Nobody can become His enemy. It is simply childish-just to knock one's head on the mountain to break the mountain. If one thinks that "I shall knock my head to the mountain, and the mountain will break," that is foolishness. Your head will be broken. That's all. Similarly, as friend, nobody can give any service to Kṛṣṇa, or as enemy, nobody can give any trouble to Kṛṣṇa. Nija-lābha-pūrṇa. This is nija-lābha-pūrṇa. He's always full with all satisfaction. So why Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]? So does it mean that Kṛṣṇa is so hungry that He has come to beg from us a little flower, little fruit? That some rascal taken this, that Kṛṣṇa comes as beggar, daridra. So when Kṛṣṇa comes as opulent Personality of Godhead they are not interested to serve Him, but when Kṛṣṇa comes as daridra, then they're interested.

*So these are all foolishness. Kṛṣṇa is neither daridra, but karuṇam. Karuṇaṁ vṛṇīte. Just to show His causeless mercy upon us, He says that "Give me something. Even if you are very poor man, so give Me something, whatever you can secure very easily." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. Patraṁ you can get anywhere, without any price. Puṣpam also you can get anywhere, and toyam, that also get, you can get. So simply collect for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "I'll serve Kṛṣṇa with this endeavor. I'll collect something." What you'll collect? It is Kṛṣṇa's money. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. So what you can collect? It is Kṛṣṇa's. Just like we are constructing this temple. We are feeling that "I am constructing. We are constructing," but actually it is Kṛṣṇa's. The bricks, the iron or the cement or anything that we are collecting, that is Kṛṣṇa's property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. The brick is not your property. The earth is not your property. You are taking Kṛṣṇa's earth, and you are making it a brick. Still, it is Kṛṣṇa's property. But the endeavor, the energy which you are giving to Kṛṣṇa, that is taken into account: "Oh, he is working for Me. He wants to give Me something." That Kṛṣṇa consciousness is important. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa can... By His will He can construct sixteen thousands palaces for His queen. What this tiny temple will satisfy Him? But still, He's satisfied: "Oh, you have done so much? Very good." Recognized. Kṛṣṇa has created the whole universe. Yasyaika*-niśvasita-kāla. He doesn't require any endeavor. Simply by breathing, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. By His breathing, many millions of Brahmās are coming out, jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. And each jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, Brahmā, is creating a universe. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. So to create a temple, He doesn't require our help. He can create millions of temples by His will. There are already.

*So we should always remember this, that Kṛṣṇa does not require our service, but if we give some service to Kṛṣṇa, that is our benefit. This is the formula. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa is very much obliged. But He feels obliged. Why? Aviduṣaḥ. We are all fools and rascals. We are thinking that we are giving some service. No. We cannot give any. We are so insignificant that we cannot. He's unlimited, and we are very, very limited, tiny. But still, just the small child gives something to the father... It is father's property, but still, the father is very glad that "This child is giving me a lozenges." He thinks, "This is my big property." (laughs) So always we should remember this verse, that naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija*-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. He's always full with six opulences. There is no question of satisfying by giving something. This daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā has come under this misunderstanding that "We have to serve God, so when God comes as daridra, then we shall give. When God comes with Lakṣmī, with Sītā, with Rādhārāṇī, no, no, that is not required. We don't want to serve that God. We want to serve when God comes as poor man, as invalid with a stick, and begs. Oh I am so great. I am giving God." This is nonsense. This is not... What God cares for you? But they have conceived that, that "God, although He is great, he becomes a small beggar and begs from me." This is material conception of understanding.

*So here it is clear, nija*-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. He's not... He's Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. He's Nārāyaṇa, and why He should become poor? He... Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ [Bs. 5.29]. Not only one Lakṣmī, not one Rukmiṇī, but many thousands' Lakṣmī, sahasra-sata, many lakhs. We are flattering Lakṣmījī, "Give me some favor," but Kṛṣṇa doesn't flatter anyone. Sometimes He does out of love to Rādhārāṇī. That Lakṣmī is Rādhārāṇī. Therefore She is the topmost of all Lakṣmīs. So, why Kṛṣṇa will be beggar, daridra? No, there is no possibility. Here Kṛṣṇa is present in this temple. He has become very handy so that we can offer our dress, offer our foodstuff, whatever we can. He can become still smaller. Anor anīyāṁ mahato mahīyān. If you want to worship Him as the virata-puruṣa, then He can show you the virāṭa-puruṣa. The sky is the head and the Pātāla is the leg. He can become so big that you will be frightened, as Arjuna became frightened after seeing. He can become. That is called Brahman. Bṛhatvād bṛhaṇatvāt. He can become the bigger than the biggest, and He can become smaller than the smallest. That is Kṛṣṇa.

*So if we actually want to serve according to our means, Kṛṣṇa is ready to accept our service. But you cannot think that "Without my service, Kṛṣṇa is starving." No, that is not. Nija*-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. He's always complete in Himself. He doesn't require our help. But if we serve Kṛṣṇa, then we become benefited. That is... Yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānam. If you offer respect, Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you'll be respectful. If you don't want to show respect to Kṛṣṇa and His representative, then you'll be derided. Therefore prati-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ. Prati-mukhasya, original face, original person, is Kṛṣṇa. If you decorate Kṛṣṇa very nicely, then you will be also seen very much decorated. If you... Practically we see. There is no fable. We are offering Kṛṣṇa nice foodstuff, so we are eating this nice prasādam which we never conceived or dreamed, dreamt in our life. Because we are offering to Kṛṣṇa, we become so fortunate to taste this nice prasādam. Kṛṣṇa, nija-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. It is not that if you give a nice plate of foodstuff, Kṛṣṇa eats everything, and you simply see the empty dish. No. Kṛṣṇa eats and again keeps it as it is for... That is Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. The atheist class of men, they think, "We offered so many things. Kṛṣṇa did not eat." No. He has eaten, but He is nija-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. He is not hungry, but whatever you have offered, He has eaten. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Everyone was offering so many things. It was stocked, and Govinda one day informed Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Sir, people bring so many nice foodstuffs for You. It is stocked. Practically the whole room is filled up, and when they ask me that 'Whether Caitanya Mahāprabhu has eaten my offering?' I say 'Yes, yes, He has eaten.' So I have to tell so many lies, and the stock is there. You do not eat." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right, bring them here." So one after one, the whole room was finished. Caitanya Mahāprabhu ate everything. Then He asked him, "Bring more." "No, Sir, only the empty pots are there." "All right, stop." So this is Kṛṣṇa. If you offer Him huge foodstuff, He can eat. And if you can offer Him little flower, fruit and water, that also, He is satisfied. So everyone should offer according to his means, and Kṛṣṇa is ready to accept, not that you have to become a very rich man and you have to offer Kṛṣṇa foodstuff fifty-six times as in Jagannātha Purī the foodstuffs are offered. Not that. He is pleased anyway. But become a devotee. Try to please Him to your best capacity.

You know the story of that brāhmaṇa. He had no means to offer anything to Kṛṣṇa. He was so poor. But he wanted to offer something, but he thought that "I am so poor. I cannot offer anything." So one day he heard from the Bhāgavata speech that one can offer Him within mind also. So he took it seriously, and from that day he was offering Kṛṣṇa so many nice foodstuffs, collecting water from different rivers and keeping the water in golden jugs, and bathing Kṛṣṇa and offering... This was... He was always thinking. And one day he prepared sweet rice and offered Kṛṣṇa, and he wanted to see whether rice is..., because sweet rice, very hot, is not good. Sweet rice, the more it is cooler, then it is tasteful. But milk, if you take cool, that is not tasteful. Milk you have to take hot, but not the sweet rice. So he wanted to test whether it is too hot. So his finger burned, and then his meditation broke. He saw there is no rice but finger is burned. In this way the brāhmaṇa was immediately taken to Vaikuṇṭha.

So Kṛṣṇa can be offered in any circumstances. Kṛṣṇa can be pleased, provided you want to please Kṛṣṇa, provided you want to serve Kṛṣṇa. There is no question of... That is already explained, that dana jana, riches or learning or respectability, all these things cannot satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants only your heart-"Kṛṣṇa, You are my eternal master. I am Your eternal servant. Please engage me in Your service."

na danaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



This is the prayer. A devotee never asks Kṛṣṇa, "You give me money. You give me many followers. You give me nice wife." No. Na danaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. "Then what you want?" "I want to be engaged in Your service." Not "I want." A devotee never says "I want." "Please, if You like, engage me." That is... This Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means that. Hare... Hare is the addressing Rādhārāṇī, Hara; from Hara, Hare. And Kṛṣṇa... So "Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa," Hare Kṛṣṇa, "Please engage me in Your service." Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma...



Devotees: ...Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



Prabhupāda: So we should simply pray, "Kindly engage me in Your service in whatever capacity You like." I have got my own desire, so Kṛṣṇa gives us freedom: "In whichever capacity you want to serve Me, I shall accept, either as servant, either as friend, either as father, mother, or either as conjugal lover." Any way, Kṛṣṇa is ready to accept our service. And He does not require any service, but if we render service, that is our benefit. That is required. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement it teaching that "Try to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is the beginning of teaching of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. They are trying to be master. That is māyā. It is not possible to become māyā, er, master. You cannot become master. If you think that you are going to be master, that is māyā.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



They think like that, but nobody can be master. But the fools, rascals, they want to become master, and when they fail, then they want to become one with the God, the supreme master. This is going on. They are all māyā, illusion. The real life is to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa and offer service to Him to the best capacity. That is perfection of life.



Thank you very much. (end)



690324SB.HAW

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.11-13

-

Hawaii, March 24, 1969



*Prabhupāda: (maṅgalācaraṇa) It is very nicely decorated. Yes. Buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. This is the result of sincere devotion. Just like when you give me massaging, I say, "Do like this," similarly, when one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, from within He dictates, "Do like this. Do like this." So our business is how Kṛṣṇa will accept our service. This verse we have already discussed, that naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija-lābha-pūrṇaḥ [SB 7.9.11]. He does not require any ser..., anyone's service because He's complete. There is no want. Unless He's perfect, how He can be Supreme? The perfect means... We have got so many wants because we are imperfect. Especially in this material condition, we have got so many demands, wants, because we are living in an atmosphere which is imperfect. But Kṛṣṇa is perfect, pūrṇam. Pūrṇa-brahma. Pūrṇa-brahma. Another name of the Absolute Truth is Pūrṇa-brahman. Brahman means the greatest, the great and the greatest. And pūrṇa, pūrṇa means complete. Greatest.



Now, in our idea, because we are very teeny, we can see this Pacific Ocean before us-"the greatest." But even in comparison to the universe, it is not even a drop of water. In comparison to the universe there are millions and trillions of Pacific Oceans floating in the sky. So what is this Pacific Ocean in comparison to the universe? Therefore it is not greatest. But to our idea, we are thinking it is the greatest. This is called relative truth. This is scientifically truth, Professor Einstein's theory, relativity. We think something very great or greatest according to our capacity of understanding. We are very teeny, so we think that this Pacific Ocean, the greatest. The frog philosophy. Everyone is thinking that his understanding is the greatest. He has no idea that how greatest God is. We say "God is great," but we do not know how great He is. This Pacific Ocean is an insignificant drop of water within this universe, this material universe. And this universe is also... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that this universe is just like a, a small mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds. If you take one bag of mustard seeds, you cannot count how many there are. Is it possible? If you take a bag of grains, is it possible to count how many grains are there? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has compared this universe... One of His devotees, Vāsudeva Datta... That is the attitude of devotee. He requested Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "My dear Lord, You have kindly come to deliver the fallen souls. Please fulfill Your mission. Take away all the souls, conditioned souls of the universe. Don't leave them, not a single. Please take them away. And if You think that they are not eligible or some of them are not eligible, then please transfer their sinful reaction upon me. I shall go on suffering. But You take away all of them." Just see the attitude of a devotee. "You take them all." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu began to smile. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, "Vāsudeva, do you think that if I take away all the conditioned souls of the universe, the whole universe, if I take, do you think that it is finished, the business is finished? This universe is nothing but just like a mustard seed in a bag of mustard seeds. So even if I take all the conditioned souls of this universe, there are so many universes, other. What about that?" This is discussed in the...

*So, so our idea of greatest is very imperfect. We do not know how great is God. We simply say that "God is great" and speculate like the frog philosopher, "He may be one inch greater than me. All right, ten inches greater than me. Or ten feet greater than. Ten miles greater than," like that. Similarly, if God is so great, then what service we can offer Him? So this statement is very nice. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "My Lord Kṛṣṇa is nija*-lābha-pūrṇaḥ." If He's so great... Suppose if you go to see a friend who is multimillionaire. Now, if you offer him, suppose, three apples or four bananas, or such like, so what is that in comparison to his wealth? That is nothing. But he's pleased still. "Ah, you are my friend. You have brought some fruits. That's nice." So Kṛṣṇa is... When we offer our service, He's very kind to accept. He says that patraṁ pus... Only thing is devotion. That He accepts. Bhāva-grāhī janārdanaḥ. What is your feeling? How you are feeling for Kṛṣṇa? Therefore, in the noontime I was saying that you should feel, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is seated down. Oh, no. He should not be. He cannot sit for long time. It must be finished." That feeling... Bhāva-grāhī janārdanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa accepts our feeling. Just like this little child, if she comes before me with some little fruit like this, that is nothing for me. But the feeling is nice. "Oh, you have brought this? Nice. Very good." So bhāva-grāhī janārdanaḥ: "Janārdana, Kṛṣṇa, He accepts the feeling."

*So we have to purify our feelings. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "How I can serve?" And if we purify... Purify means purification will be done by Him. We cannot purify. Purification will be done by Him. Simply we have to become purified feelings, that "I must serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely." Then He will give facilities, He will give you intelligence, He will give you everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. In the Fifteenth Chapter, fifteenth verse, you'll see, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Sarvasya: not only human beings, all living entities. Not only living entities, even in atom, within the atom, He is present there. Sarvasya. Sarvasya means everything, the Supersoul. Sarvasya ca aham, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I," hṛdi, "in the heart." When it is called hṛdi, that means living entity. Without living entity, there cannot be any heart. Without this body, no, there cannot be any heart. Dead body. The heart is dead. So sarvasya ca ahaṁ hṛdi. Hṛdi means "in the heart." Sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am situated. I am sitting there." And mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Because He is sitting there, therefore all kinds of remembrance, smṛti, knowledge and forgetfulness. These things are functions of the mind. You remember something, you gather some knowledge, and sometimes you forget. "Let me think. Oh, yes, I forgot, yes." That's a function of the mind. So that forgetfulness is also due to Kṛṣṇa because He's sitting there. He's guiding. If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, He'll give you opportunity of māyā that you can..., you'll never remember Kṛṣṇa. You'll forget for good. And that is His kindness. "You want to forget Me? All right. I give you so much facility that you'll never be able to remember Me." Therefore the staunch atheist, however you argue with him, however you defeat him... Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. They cannot. They will not. Because Kṛṣṇa is arranging within: "Forget. Don't accept it. Don't accept it."

*So this is going on. Sarvasya cāham hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. So for the nondevotees, He's giving facilities to forget. And for the devotees, who are sincerely seeking Kṛṣṇa's favor, Kṛṣṇa's service, He's giving memorization: "Yes, you do like this. Do like this." Why does He so? That is also explained, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante: [Bg. 4.11] "As you want Me... If you want Me, to forget, I give you facility to forget. And if you want Me, to serve, I give you facility to serve." That is neutrality. That is God. The rascal says, "Why God has made one devotee and another nondevotee?" No. Not God has made. You wanted to become nondevotee? He has made you nondevotee: "All right, you become rascal number one nondevotee." And if you want to be devotee? "All right, I'll make you first*-class devotee." That is God. Whatever you want, you get facility. So this is very nice. Simply if we have actually understood our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and if we try to serve Him sincerely, then Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. He'll give you intelligence.

*Now, today is, this decoration is so nice that... Of course, such kind of decoration is made in India. But if some devotee comes from India he'll see, "Oh, it is very nice. How they have done." How? It is possible because Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Kṛṣṇa is not for the Indians or for the Americans. He's for everyone. Anyone who desires to serve Him, He'll give him intelligence. This is the philosophy. We have to become serious, that "Kṛṣṇa, give me intelligence so that I can serve You very nicely." Oh, Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. And: "Kṛṣṇa, give me facility so that I can forget You." "All right. You again forget." That is also stated in the Sixteenth... Tan ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andha*-yoniṣu: [Bg. 16.19] "Those who are envious, asuric, demons, I put them in such abominable life that they'll never be able to understand Me." That is the greatest punishment. For a living being, if he forgets God, Kṛṣṇa, in any condition of life, it is the greatest punishment. They're thinking that "We are happy without this nonsense God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They are the most condemned, most condemned. I think Lord Jesus Christ has said like this, "If anyone gains the whole world and forgets God and self, then what does he gain?" In the Bhāgavata also it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We... Everyone is born fool. Just like this child. The child... Everyone knows that child is a fool. Everyone knows. So if the child commits some mistake, does some wrong thing, nobody takes care of him. "Child. He's a fool." Or animal. If the cat comes and immediately gets up on the throne, sit down, so we take it is our fault that we allowed the cat, but we don't take the cat as offender because it is fool, animal. You see? But if you go and sit down there, then everyone will be: "Oh, you are so rascal that you are going to sit down there?" So human being is so responsible. If he remains fool, then he loses the chance of life. He should not remain... Why these books are here? This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Vedānta-Sūtra, and so many nice books there are. Why? Just to make us advanced in knowledge. So we should not try to remain in foolish condition. And if we try to become elevated, Kṛṣṇa will give us facilities. He is...

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says-we have already discussed about this*-that it doesn't require any qualification. To pacify, to please, to satisfy the Lord, you don't require any pre-qualification: oh, you have to pass your examination in the university, or you have to become a rich man like Rockefeller or Ford, or you have to become this or that... No condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. If you want to love Kṛṣṇa, there is no check. There is no check. The road is open. Simply you have to become sincere. That's all. Then Kṛṣṇa will clear the way. And if there is no sincerity, then Kṛṣṇa's māyā is there. He'll always, she'll always put some stumbling block: "Not this, not this, not this." So Prahlāda Mahārāja decided that "Although I am a child, I have no education, I have no studies of the Vedas, and born of atheistic father, lowborn, so all bad qualification... So God is worshiped by intellectual persons, offering Vedic hymns, and brāhmaṇas, highly cultured. So I have no such qualification. But still, all these demigods who are so highly elevated in their position, they have requested me. That means God can be pacified even by me. Otherwise how they recommend? So whatever qualification I have got, whatever intelligence I have got, I may offer Kṛṣṇa." Therefore our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like this, that whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. You begin with that qualification. Because real qualification-your feeling of service. That is real qualification. So you develop that feeling, not your external qualification, beauty, wealth, knowledge, this, that, no. These things have no value. They are valuable if they are employed in Kṛṣṇa's service. If you are very rich man, if you employ your wealth in Kṛṣṇa's service... (aside:) You cannot sit like that? Yes. It is all right. But there is no need that you have to become very wealthy. Then you can serve Kṛṣṇa.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, nīco ajayā guṇa-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ pūyeta yena pumān anuvarṇitena. Now, one may question that Prahlāda is born of impure father. This is argument. Prahlāda is not impure, but it is an argument's sake, born of low father, or low family, or one, so many, so many things they may say. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "If I begin simply glorify the Lord, then I shall be purified." If I chant the purification... This Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is the process of purification. Not that I'll have to purify otherwise and then take to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. No. You begin chanting. Then it is purified. You'll be purified. Begin chanting. In whatever condition you are, that doesn't matter. Actually I began my, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement*-not that they came in a very purified condition. That we, every one of you, know, that those who came to me, they, according, they have been trained from childhood... According to Indian standard, they do not know even the hygienic principles. What is the question of purification? You see. In India the system is from childhood, a child is trained to take bath, to wash teeth in the morning. Yes. And I remember. When my second son was about four years old, so before breakfast, I used to ask him, "Show me your teeth." So he'll sh..., "Yes." "All right, you have washed your teeth. That's all right. Then you are allowed to take breakfast." So this training there are. But here, in this country, the training... Of course, there are somewhere, but not very strictly. So that doesn't matter. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Begin Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will come. Everything will come.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that nīco 'jayā guṇa*-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ. Guṇa, these three qualities... yasmād bhavān bhaktir utmāsmadaṁ nīco vigata gata-sankasyan mahimanam sajatrena samanu samsara anuvarṇayāmi ajānato 'pi stuti-karaṇe hetum āha (?). "Although I do not know..." Because the demigods have requested Prahlāda Mahārāja that "You try to pacify Narasiṁhadeva, Lord Narasiṁhadeva, Nṛsiṁhadeva." So when you go to Kṛṣṇa, or any other form of Kṛṣṇa, God, we offer prayers, but "I do not know how to make prayer. I do not know how to write. I do not know how to glorify." So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that ajānato stuti-karaṇe, yenaiva mahimna anuvarṇitena avidyayā saṁsāra-anupraviṣṭaḥ pumān śuddhyet, tathā hi tan mahi anasya tataḥ ṣoḍakasya abavaditartha(?). In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is explained that if you begin this chanting, then automatically you'll be purified and you'll be able to offer prayers in purification. That system will automatically help you. So there is no question that you shall hesitate. There is no question of hesitate. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore recommended,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*Kalau, kalau, in this age, you cannot find a man perfectly purified or this, anyway. That is not possible. Therefore you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and that will help you, the process of purification. Therefore this is the only system at the present moment that one can be purified simply by chanting. Completely. Complete purification means to be situated in pure spiritual life. That is complete purification. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bāhyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ. Śuci means purified. The brāhmaṇa-not this caste brāhmaṇa, but actually, those who are brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa*-they are called śuci, purified, purified.



*So this purification, how it is done? Now, yaḥ smaret, "one who remembers," puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ, "Kṛṣṇa, always," sa bāhya, means "externally," and abhyantaram, "internally," śuci, "purified." So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always, either loudly or silently or within yourself, mind, if you chant, so there is no question of impurification. It is... You remain always in, what is called, antiseptic stage, or prophylactic stage. Purification is there simply by remembering Kṛṣṇa. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bāhyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ. There is another verse. The purport of that verse is that simply by pronouncing this transcendental vibration, one becomes so purified that immediately he becomes eligible to operate sacrificial, ritualistic ceremonies. Now, sacrificial, ritualistic ceremonies, in the Vedas, priestly, that is, that work is, I mean to say, allotted to the brāhmaṇa class. Now, Jīva Gosvāmī has discussed this verse in this way, that "Even a caṇḍāla, a persons in the family of dog*-eaters, if he chants the holy name of the Lord, he becomes so purified that immediately he becomes eligible to operate sacrificial, ritualistic ceremony." So Jīva Gosvāmī has commented in this connection that a boy, a child born in the brāhmaṇa family, in order to accept him as real brāhmaṇa... He's born in a pure family. That's all right. But there are other ceremonies, reformatory ceremonies, and this thread ceremony is also one of the ceremonies. So even taking birth in the brāhmaṇa family, he has to undergo the ceremonies to come to the stage of a pure brāhmaṇa. But here chanting of holy name is so powerful that he does not require even dependence on those ceremonies. Immediately he becomes. Unless a person... A boy is born in a brāhmaṇa family, but unless he's educated, unless he's purified, he cannot be allowed to perform the sacrificial ritual, rites. That means he's dependent on these other processes. So..., but here a devotee who is chanting without any offense, he becomes immediately purified without depending on the other purificatory process. These things are discussed.

*Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja begins his prayer, according to his capacity. So he first of all begins, brahmādayo vayam iva īśa na, na ca udvijantaḥ. He says, "My dear Lord, here all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahma, they are very nice people. They are not disturbing elements like us. Because we, I am born of the demon family." The demons are always disturbing. Their business is to nullify the existence of God. Therefore they're always disturbing. If there is a certain class of citizens, if they are simply after agitation that "This government is useless," that means they are disturbing. There are so many parties. They make agitation: "Oh, this government is nothing. We require a new government." Therefore in your country the communist movement has been statewise declared, "It is illegal." But in other countries the communist group will always decrying, "Oh, this government is nonsense. This government nonsense." So as the Communist Party is always disturbing element to the government, similarly, the demons, the atheist class of men, they're always disturbing to God. How they can gain the benediction from God? They simply disturb Him. And there are different kinds of demons, different classes of demons. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Duṣkṛtina means... Krti means very intelligent, and... What is that word, if a man does something wonderful? Genius? Genius? Yes. So the genius, duṣkṛtina, "wrong genius." That means the materialistic persons, scientists, they're genius. They have discovered very wonderful machine, wonderful things. They are genius, but duṣkṛtina, not for the welfare of the human society but for condemning the human society. Just like the same example, as I have given several times, that a, the person who has discovered this nuclear weapon, atomic bomb, he's certainly genius. He has got nice brain, that simply egglike bomb, if you throw, immediately the whole island of Hawaii will be finished. Just like you dropped your atomic bomb on the other side, Japan, Hiroshima... They attacked your Pearl Harbor, and the retaliation was atom bomb on Hiroshima. So these are politics. So this invention of atomic bomb, certainly it requires good brain. But Bhagavad-gītā says that this genius, or this brain, intelligence, has been used... (aside:) Stop that. ...has been wrongly used.

*So the materialistic class of men are undoubtedly very, very intelligent, but their intelligence is being used wrongly. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍha means rascal, ass. So by their discoveries, by their materialistic activities, atheistic activities, they're simply disturbing, simply disturbing. That's all. They do not know that, that "I am discovering these material things." If we discuss, we can prolong so many things. Just like in India, when we were children, I saw one advertisement by the Remington typewriter machine company that "This machine has given emancipation to the woman class because they have found some job for typewriting." In this way they were advertising. But actually does it mean that because there are so many typewriting machine discovered, the women are emancipated? Rather, they have become dependent. Instead of being dependent at home, they have to go and become a secretary of a third*-class person, and unless he gives job, his (her) life is in precarious condition. So is that emancipation? But it was advertised as emancipation. Similarly, whatever material advancement we are making in the name of facility, emancipation, we are simply bungling the whole affair, disturbing. They do not know that. Life is so simple. Of course, it is not acceptable at the present situation. Therefore our only remedy is that whatever situation is there, you simply chant. Everything will be adjusted. But this atheistic way of life, this materialistic way of life, is always disturbing. That you should know. Disturbing to whom? To the Supreme. Just like the more they become materially advanced, they'll decry, "Oh, there is no God. I am God. We don't care for God. Why you are clamoring for God?" What...? That is their business, simply to decry God. Therefore they are...

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My dear Lord, we belong to that class because we belong to the demon family, so but these demigods, they are not like that." This is the first... Brahmādaya vayam iva īśa na ca udvijantaḥ: "Just like us, we rascals, demons, we simply disturb You, they are not like this." Kṣemayā bhūtāya bhūtātma*-sukhāya cāsya vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ. Sarve hy amī vidhi-karās tava sattva-dhāmne, brahmādaya... The vidhi-karā. Vidhi-karā means these demigods are in charge of... Just like Brahma. Brahmā is in charge of the creation. Viṣṇu, God Himself, has taken charge of maintenance. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. I can employ any engineer to construct a nice building for my family, but that engineer cannot take charge of the maintenance of my family. Is it possible, that if I ask any engineer that "You have now constructed a very nice house for my family. Also you take charge of maintaining"? "No, sir, I cannot do that." Immediately. "How can I take charge of your family? Now I have created. You have paid me. That's all."

*So maintenance cannot be taken by anyone except by God. Therefore this material world is being operated in three departmental qualities: sattva, raja, tama. Sattva is maintenance. Sattva means goodness. Goodness is maintenance. And raja means activity. Without activity, there cannot be any creation in this material world. If you want to construct something, there must be activity. Raja means activity. And tama means darkness. So these, these qualities are working. These qualities are working. Now, in your country, by the rajo-guṇa you have created so many things, a nice country, very nicely operating. But another side: the confusion is there, the hippies. You see? Future hope of the country is very dark. You see? It will spoil the whole thing if the country's not alive to the situation. This is another way of protest. Just like in Europe there are, in Russia there is communist, so this is another way of... So these qualities will work because this material world*-one side, goodness; another side, darkness; *another side, activity. This is going on. So as there are so many departments of activities, all these demigods, they are in charge of, director, director in chief. So brahmādayaḥ. Brahmā is in charge of something. Indra is in charge of something. The demigods, they're officers. They have no information. They say, "It is nature, nature, nature, nature." No nature. They are department, department. Indra is in charge of this cloud, how cloud is conducted, how rain falls there, and he's in charge of... Water department, like that. Just like moon. Moon is in charge of lighting at night. Sun is in charge of lighting in daytime. Because it is darkness. The whole world is darkness. So these demigods... Similarly, Lord Śiva is in charge of destroying, tamo-guṇa. When there will be necessity of destroying this whole thing... Because this world is like that. Everything that is created, that must be destroyed. Your body is being created from the father and mother. Now it is being maintained. So creation and maintenance, and then a time will come*-it will be destroyed. So these, these three departments are there. So for creative department of this material world, Lord Brahma; for maintenance department, Lord Viṣṇu Himself; and for destruction, Lord Śiva. These are the guṇa avatāras, three, trinity. One is creating, one is maintaining...

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, brahmā, sarve hy amī vidhi*-karās tava sattva-dhāmno: "They are all Your servants. These demigods, they are appointed servants, and they are not disturbing like us. And Your incarnation is specially meant for them, specially meant..." Because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. Actually He incarnates to protect these, I mean to say, faithful persons who are devoted to Kṛṣṇa. That is His main business. And vinā... And the sideways side, I mean to say, killing all these demonic per... Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he's demon, and Prahlāda is devotee. Lord Nṛsiṁha's appeared for two business: for killing Hiraṇyakaśipu and giving protection to Prahlāda. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "Actually Your appearance, Your incarnation, is meant for these devotees, these demigods." Demigod means devotee. There are two classes of men in the world. One class is demigod. Who are demigod? Those who are Vaiṣṇavas, they are demigods. Demigod does not mean that something extraordinary. Anyone who is Vaiṣṇava, devotee of the Supreme Lord, he is demigod. That is the statement of Vedic literature. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ. Daiva. Daiva means devatā or demigod. Asuras tad-viparyayaḥ. And those who are atheistic demons, they are just the opposite. They are never devotee. So there are two classes of men in this world. Sometimes the number, or the proportion, may be greater, this side or that... But in this material world there is never... The proportion of the demigods, or Vaiṣṇavas, is never greater. They are very few always. You cannot expect that the whole world, whole population of the world, will become Vaiṣṇava. That is not possible. Mostly they are demons, atheistic. So Prahlāda Mahārāja first of all appeals to the Lord that "My dear Lord, Nṛsiṁhadeva, Your appearance is for their protection. Now You have killed the demon, my father. Now Your business is finished. Now You become pacified, satisfied, because You have no other, no other cause for being angry." Because Nṛsiṁhadeva was groaning in anger, and the demigods were afraid to approach Him, so Prahlāda Mahārāja first appeals to Him, "My dear Lord, there is no need of any more groaning. You become satisfied because Your appearance is for the protection of these demigods. They are not disturbing to You." In this way he begins his prayer, very nice, simple, a child, although there is no question of Vedānta philosophy. The simple truth. The simple truth. But it is very nice. We shall go on.

*So he īśa amī udvijanto vibhrānta sarve brahmādayaḥ sattva*-mūrtes tava vidhi-karāḥ. "Another thing is, now, they are very peaceful by nature. But by Your this fierceful appearance, they have become, I mean to say, fearful. So because Your incarnation is for them, now You become pacified so that they may also become pacified." Brahmādayaḥ sattva-mūrteḥ. Sattva-mūrte. They are... Sattva-mūrte means devotees. "All, they are devotees," sakta-mūrte. Tava vidhi-karā niyoga-kartā: "And they are Your faithful servant. They are Your faithful servant. They are demigod. They are not disturbing." In this way... So to glorify the devotees of the Lord is more pleasing to the Lord. Kṛṣṇa says, mad-bhaktaḥ pūjyābhyadhikaḥ. If we... Just like we say, nanda-nandana, ayi nanda-nandana. We don't say..., Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not say directly, "O Kṛṣṇa." He says, "O the son of Nanda." Kṛṣṇa is very much pleased. Just like Nanda Mahārāja is supposed to be maintainer of Kṛṣṇa, so He takes pleasure when His devotee's names is there. Just like we say, "Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Rādhā's name is first. Why? Nobody can be better devotee than Rādhārāṇī. So as soon as Rādhā's name is there, Kṛṣṇa is more pleased. So that is the way. So if we glorify the devotees, the character of the devotees, before the Lord, He's more pleased than to glorify Himself, He directly.

*So "They are Your most obedient servant, and they are all devotees." Sattva, bhakta eva nanv eva bhayaṁ ca asuram eva vaidha*-bhāvaḥ: "They are not just like enemies. We are Your enemies." He's taking always himself... This is another sign of devotee. He is not... He is more than the demigod. He has, he's so elevated, but still, he's personifying himself with the atheistic class because he's born in that, from that father. That is humbleness. That is... He's not actually so. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, because he was born in a Muhammadan family, he would go... Caitanya Mahāprabhu transferred Himself to Jagannātha Purī after taking sannyāsa. So he requested Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "My dear Lord, You are going to Jagannātha Purī. What will be my fate?" "Oh, you also come there. You live with Me." So Haridāsa Ṭhākura also went to Jagannātha Purī, but because he was born in a Muhammadan family, the priest class, they would make howling, "How this Muhammadan is entering?" So he never entered the temple. Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him just an apartment where He was living, just by the side. And every morning Caitanya Mahāprabhu was coming to see him. So, so it does not mean... If a humble devotee thinks that "I am the lowest. I am untouchable, this way," that does (not) mean he is out of the touch of God. But this humbleness is very good, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, always identifying himself that "I am the son of atheist father. So these demigods, they are not disturbing elements like us."

*So bhaktā kintu sadaiva tava ruciraiva avatāra*-viśeṣaṁ kriyā kriyānām asya viśvasya kṣemādi na tu padanāya: "Now, due to Your fierceful attitude, the demigods and others, they have been, become afraid. But actually Your incarnation is for their maintenance. Therefore You pacify Your anger because You have appeared for them. If they are, become fearful on account of Your appearance, then You should be pacified. Otherwise, they are very much perturbed." Now Prahlāda Mahārāja will explain his attitude, whether he was afraid or not. These things will be explained very nicely in our next meeting.

Thank you very much.

*[break] ...Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad-gītā, asurānāṁ prahlādo 'smi: "Amongst the demons, I am Prahlāda." His grandson, also, he became also great devotee, Bali, Bali Mahārāja. The Vāmanadeva went to Bali Mahārāja. He was also great devotee. And this Bali Mahārāja is the grandson of Prahlāda Mahārāja. They are demonic family. So amongst the demons, many devotees came out. So to become devotee does not depend on that particular family, this or that. No. Anyone can become devotee. (sound of child running in background) Now she is feeling freedom, expressing freedom. Don't express. Then you'll be again put into. No more. Oh! All right. (running continues) Everyone wants freedom. Yes. Don't touch. Don't touch, please. Any other question? Hm. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. That is declared in the Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone who goes to Kṛṣṇa, he can attain the highest perfection of life. It does not depend that what family, what heritage, what country, what nation, what color, what education. No, nothing. Simply one has to become willing devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Just like the, yesterday, they came? So they did not come. They're not willing to become devotee. They want to become God*-by intoxication. You see? This nonsense theory is killing so many persons. Artificially intoxication, forgetting his present ex... Just like sleeping, one forgets, and he becomes a God. Oh, it is very dangerous theory. This is going on. And as soon as one is said that "You become God's servant," "Oh, again servant?" But he's actually servant of intoxication. That will continue. But as soon as he's requested that "You become servant of Kṛṣṇa," "Oh, this is nonsense. They are old-type people. We have invented something new, to become servant of sex and intoxication." And if somebody says, "Yes, it is all right. You go on with this. Simply meditate for fifteen minutes and you'll actually realize that you are God..." This is asuric. This is asura. Asuras will never accept that there is separate... (end)



680818SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.12

-

Montreal, August 18, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (devotees respond)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



(devotees respond)



*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



(devotees respond)



*ālola*-candraka-lasad-vanamālya-vaṁśī-

*ratnāṅgadam praṇaya*-keli-kalā-vilāsam

*śyāmam tribhaṅga*-lalitaṁ niyata-prakāśaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.31]



(devotees respond) Thank you very much.



*tasmād ahaṁ vigata*-viklava īśvarasya

sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīsam

*nīco 'jayā guṇa*-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ

pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena

[SB 7.9.12]



So the prayer... For offering prayer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you do not require any high qualification. It doesn't matter. You can offer your prayer from any standard of life. Not that you have to become a very learned man, very scholarly man, and you have to present your prayers in a very nicely selected words so that poetry, rhetoric, prosody, everything is there, metaphor. Nothing required. Simply you have to express your feelings.



So what is that real feeling? One must be aware of his position; *then one can express his feeling. Feeling should be very sincere and automatic. And what is our position? That has been taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches us how to pray. He says in His prayer, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. Jagadīśa: "O My Lord of the universe." Jagat-īśa. Jagat means universe and īśa means Lord. So it does not matter whether you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian or anyone. It does not matter. But you must know that there is a supreme controller of this universe. How can you deny it? Therefore this word has been used very nicely by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: Jagadīśa. Jaya jagadīśa hare. It is universal. Now if you think that "My father is jagadīśa," that is your conviction, but jagadīśa is meaning the Supreme*-no controller there. Everyone is controlled. As soon as you see that somebody is controlled, he cannot be the Supreme. So to find out the jagadīśa... The Brahma-saṁhitā gives us information who is Jagadīśa. And who is that Jagadīśa, or the Supreme? The Brahmā says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Jagadīśa, īśa, the same word, īśvara. Īśa means controller. So every one of us is controller to some extent. If somebody has nothing to control, he keeps one cat or dog to control: "My dear cat, please come here." He is thinking, "I am controller." And sometimes we find the dog controls the master. Actually, nobody is controller. Everyone is controlled. But we forget the situation. This is called māyā. Therefore we refuse to accept any controller of this universe, because as soon as we accept some controller, then we'll have to account for our sinful activities. As soon as there is a government, then we shall be responsible for our unlawful activities. But our position is that we want to continue our sinful activities. As such it is very good to deny any controller. That is the basic principle of godlessness. Why these rascals, they deny there is no God, God is dead? Because they want to continue their rascaldom without any restriction. That is the basic principle, they deny. But do you mean to say that denying the God, the God will die or God will..., there will be no God? No. There is a nice Bengali proverb, śakuni svape garu more nā. Śakuni means the vulture. The vulture wants some dead carcass of animal, a cow especially. So for days together they do not get it, so it is cursing some cow, "You die." So does it mean that by his cursing the cow will die? Similarly, these vultures, śakuni, they want to see God is dead. At least, they take pleasure, "Oh, now God is dead. I can do anything nonsense I like." This is going on. Śakuni is cursing, the vulture is cursing the cow.

*So this sort of knowledge will not do. One must know that there is a controller. That is the beginning of knowledge. Why should you deny? In every field of activity we find some controller. How can I deny that there is no controller of this creation? There is. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu particularly uses this word. He's not manufacturing that word. This jagadīśa, this word, is there in the Vedic language in many verses. Jaya jagadīśa hare. Keśava dhṛta*-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. The Jagannātha is Jagadīśa, the same word. Jagat-nātha, Jagannātha. Jagat-īśa, Jagadīśa. So... And who is that Jagadīśa? That is being defined by Brahma, the first living creature of this universe, in the Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. The Supreme Lord... Parama means supreme. Parama means the best, the supreme, the superior. Just like we manufacture... We not manufacture; we prepare sometimes paramānna. Anna, anna means foodstuff, and paramānna means that sweet rice. It is called paramānna. Amongst all sorts of rice preparation, that sweet rice preparation is considered to be the best. So param is used when it is the best or the supermost. So īśvaraḥ, controller. There are many controllers. "Might is right." But nobody is supreme controller. That is not possible. Nobody. Everyone is trying to become the supreme controller, but that is not being possible. By individual effort, by national effort, by communal effort, any way, every community, every nation, every individual person is trying to be the supreme. Therefore there is competition. Everyone is trying to be the supreme, but that is not possible. This world, this creation is so made that nobody is supreme. Any position you place yourself, you'll find somebody inferior to you and somebody superior to you. Nobody can say that "I am superior" or "I am inferior." If you think that you are inferior, you'll find somebody immediately less inferior than you. And if you think you are superior, you'll find immediately somebody is more superior than you.

*So this is our position. And what is God's position? That is described in the Vedic literature, in Bhagavad*-gītā: asamordhva. Asamaurdhva means nobody is superior, nobody is equal. Two things. If you somebody, if you find somebody who has no competitor, equal, and who has no superior, then He is God. The definition of God can be given in two words: one who has no superior and has no equal. Asamaurdhva. This is the Vedic version. In the Upaniṣads, it is said, na tasya sama adhikasya dṛśyate. Nobody is found equal to Him or greater than Him. Na tasya sama adhikasya dṛśyate. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. And His energies are manifested in so many ways. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. And He has nothing to do. Everyone... Take any important man. Take your president. Just like the president of United States of America, he is considered to be the supreme man in the States, but as soon as there was some disturbance in Central Europe, immediately he had to call meetings of his Cabinet and to consider how to deal with the situation. So he has to do something always. If he does not do anything, then he's no more the supreme man. But in the Vedic literature we find, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. That is superiority. If he has to do something, then he's not supreme. He cannot be. He's acting.

*You'll be interested to know that one European gentleman, he went to Calcutta, and he visited several temples in Calcutta. And he visited our temple also. Our temple is Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. Just the picture, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So he went to the temple of Goddess Kālī. He saw the Goddess Kālī's very ferocious feature, and he (she) has got one, what is called, chopper in her hand, and it is, she's chopping the heads of the demons, and she has the garland of the heads of the demons, and engaged in fighting. So he's supposed to be intelligent man. He said that "I find in this temple there is God." "Why? Why you conclude like that?" "That in every temple I saw, that the god, deity, is doing something. But here I see the God is enjoying. He has nothing to do." Very nice conclusion. This is Vedic conclusion. Why, if he's God...? Nowadays the nonsense are becoming God by meditation. But does it mean by meditation one can become God? Do you think a dog meditates and becomes God? This is all nonsense. (shouting:) God is God! Always God! Just like Kṛṣṇa. He's God in the lap of His mother. The Putānā, the demonic woman, came to poison the child. She came in a very beautiful girl's dress and asked Yaśodā, "Oh, Yaśodāmayī, you have got very nice baby. Will you kindly give me? I can offer my breast." Yaśodāmayī was very simple village woman. "Oh, yes, you can take my child." But her intention was, she smeared poison on her breast, as soon as Kṛṣṇa will suck, then the child will die. So this is the demonic spirit. They want to kill Kṛṣṇa always. That's all. "God is dead." They want to see how Kṛṣṇa can be killed, how Kṛṣṇa is dead. That is their business. "There is no God" or "God is impersonal" or "God is dead" or... So many things. That means they want to see there is no God. Or to kill God. Kaṁsa, always thinking, "As soon as Kṛṣṇa will take His birth, I'll take the baby and kill." But God is always God. The Putānā rakṣasī took the child and allowed to suck her breast, and God is so kind, He sucked the breast and sucked her life. Everything finished. And she appeared, oh, a great giantlike demon. You know the story, Putānā.

So this God, this child God in the lap of His mother, He's God. He did not become God by meditation, by penance, or by austerity or by following the rules and regulations. Why? He's substantially God. The God's manifestation is always there. That is God. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. If anyone has to do something to become God, he's a dog. He's not God. Immediately. Immediately understand. If somebody advertises that by meditation he has become God, by worshiping such and such deity he has become God, immediately take that he is dog. Because the Vedic definition says, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Why God has to do something to become God? If you manufacture something gold, that is chemical gold, that is not gold. Gold is natural. Similarly, God is natural. In the womb of His mother He is God, in the lap of His mother He is God, while He's playing with His boyfriends as cowherds boy He's God, while He's dancing with His girlfriends He's God, while He's fighting in Kurukṣetra He's God, while He's marrying He's God, while He's speaking He's God. That is God. To understand God there is no difficulty. If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then God is there.

*Therefore Brahmā recommends, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. The Supreme Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā Himself that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti kiñcid dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, Dhanañjaya, oh, there is no better object than Me." Kiñcid asti. Nothing. Many places. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin, I am the fountainhead of everything." "Everything" means He's the fountainhead of Lord Śiva, He's fountainhead, the origin of Viṣṇu, He's the origin of Brahma, He's the origin of Lord Śiva, and what to speak of other demigods, and what to speak of other living creatures. Mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living creatures, they are all My parts and parcels." Therefore He is the origin. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā, the Brahmā in his saṁhitā-Saṁhitā means Vedic literature-so he explains that "You are finding out cause. Here is cause." Everywhere you'll find. But the rascal demons are so obstinate that although Kṛṣṇa is confirmed the Supreme God by Brahmā, by Śiva, by Vyāsa, Nārada, Devala, and many, many devotees, Bhīṣma... There are twelve standard ācāryas. They are svayambhūr nārada śaṁbhu... Svayambhūr means Brahmā; Nārada, Nārada Muni; *and Śaṁbhu means Lord Śiva. Kapila, Vyāsa, Kumāra*-everyone has accepted. And in the recent years Lord Caitanya, He said. And the Bhāgavata says, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Bhāgavata gives list of all incarnations of God, and at the last he concludes that in this list the name "Kṛṣṇa," He is the Supreme Personality. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. And all other manifestations, they are incarnations. Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ. All these different names of God, they are either parts or part of the parts. The part of parts is called kalā, and part is called aṁśa. We are also amsa, but we are very fragmental aṁśa. We are not as big as Viṣṇu. We are very fragmental. We are also aṁśa. So aṁśa kalā. So all others, they are either aṁśa or kalā, but Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇas tu... Tu means "but." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*So our prayers should be to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore we pray, govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. We worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the original person. We are all persons. Just like your father is person; *therefore you are person. Your son is person. Similarly, your father's father is a person, his father person, his father person. So to Brahma, his, he's also person. His father, Viṣṇu, is person. His father, his father, everywhere*-Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person. God cannot be without being person. He must be person. This impersonal understanding of God, nirākāravādī, that nirākār... Of course, in the Vedic language, when we speak nirākāra, ni, ni means negative, and ākāra, ākāra means form. So negative form. Negative form means not that He has no form but He has no form like you and me. That is negative. Form means just like we have got form. So what is the value of this form? This form will be changed after few years. As soon as I give up this body this form is changed. Just like we change our dress. Therefore He hasn't got a form like this to be changed. Therefore He's sometimes called nirākāra. Ākāra is there, and that is also explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has got a form, sir? How you say that He is the Supreme? Brahman is the Supreme." No. He has form certainly. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His form is not like you and me. Sac-cid-ānanda. His form is eternal, full of bliss, and full of knowledge. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir [Bs. 5.1]. He has no source. He has no source. He is original. He is the source of everything, anādir ādir, and He is the original Govindam. Govindam means He gives pleasure. How do you perceive pleasure? Through your senses. So therefore go means senses and vinda means pleasure. So if you serve Kṛṣṇa in your purified senses, then you really become happy. Therefore His name is Govinda. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, anādir ādir govinda sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. The cause of all causes. So He is therefore Jagadīśa. Jagadīśa.

*Here Prahlāda Mahārāja is trying to offer his prayer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Tasmād ahaṁ vigata*-viklava īśvarasya mahi gṛṇāmi. Mahi. Mahi means glorious. His glorious activities. Don't you think His activities are glorious? If... A modern scientist has manufactured one what is called sputnik, and we are advertising in the paper, "So nice sputnik. It is flying in the air and it's going..." And the Supreme Personality has created not only a childish sputnik, but millions and trillions of planets, they are flying in the air. So is not it glorious? But the rascals will say, jagan mithyā: "This world is false." Why it is false? There are so much brain in manufacturing this world, and is it false? Suppose if you decorate this temple and invite some friend, if he says, "Oh, this is all false," is it not decrying or insulting you? You decorate this temple so nicely, you prepare very nice foodstuff, and he says, "Oh, this is all false." Why? That means he has no appreciation. He's prosaic, he's dull, he's a rascal. So therefore devotees, they appreciate, "O God, O Kṛṣṇa, how nice You are. How nicely You have manufactured these trees, these flowers, the sky, the planets, the sun, the moon." And he becomes overwhelmed with joy: "Oh, my God is so great." And the rascal says it is false. (chuckles) You see how much rascaldom? False. Is it false? If you want to construct one building, you have to work hard your whole life, and if I say "It is false," how much insulted you are. So they do not know, they have no idea what is God. Yes.

So here Prahlāda Mahārāja says, īśvarasya mahi gṛṇāmi: "I shall glorify the Lord." "Oh, you are a child, sir. You are five years old. How you can glorify?" Yathā manīṣam! "It doesn't matter I am child! Whatever I have got, I shall express my feelings, 'O God, O Lord, oh, You have..., You are so great.' " That's all right. How you can describe or understand His glories? That is not possible. He's unlimited. But whatever limitation you have got, if you express feelingly, "My God, My Lord," that will be accepted. That will be accepted. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore teaches us how to pray. This prayer is na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundariṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. Everyone is praying to God with some interest. That is also good. If you go and pray to God, "Give me some money" or "Give me some relief," "Give me a nice house, nice wife, nice foodstuff," that is also good. But not so good as one is praying to God that "I don't want any money. I don't want any number of followers. I don't want any good wife, nice beautiful wife." "Then what do you want?" "I want to serve You. That's all." Finish your prayer. That is the best prayer. "You are so good, You are so nice, You are so great that I want to be engaged in Your service. I am serving these rascals. They are not satisfied, I am not satisfied. Now I have come to You. Please engage me in Your service." That is the last word of prayer.

Thank you very much. [break] Any...? [break] Where is Jayapatākā?

Devotee: He's working.



Himāvatī: If Prahlāda Mahārāja is such a great devotee, and a devotee will always say(?) "Nothing is mine," then why does he say, "O my God"? Why does God become his? Why he questions like that?



Prabhupāda: Do you mean to say nothing, God is nothing?



Himāvatī: No. I mean why does he say "my God." Why "my God"?



Prabhupāda: Then what shall he say?



Himāvatī: I don't understand then how can he say it? If you understand nothing belongs to you, then how can you say "mine," anything "mine"?



Prabhupāda: Anything mine?



Himāvatī: How can you say that "God is mine"?



Prabhupāda: So? What is your idea? He should be addressed? He should not say "my Lord"?



Himāvatī: I don't know.



*Prabhupāda: No. You know it. He's Lord of everyone. Therefore everyone can say "my Lord." That does not mean if somebody says "my Lord," He becomes monopolized. (chuckles) It does not mean. You are speaking on the platform of monopolizing, "mine." But God is never monopolized. He's everyone's, so everyone has the right to say "my God," "my Lord." It does not mean... Generally, in the material sense, when I say, "This is my spectacle," it does not belong to you. Is it not? So this "my" is not that "my." When I say "my God," that does not mean He's not your God. That is the difference. In the material sense, when I say "It is my wife," then it is not any other's wife. But God is not like that. If I say "my God," so you can say "my God," he can say "my God," everyone can say "my God." This is spiritual "my," absolute "my." Try to understand this way, that in the material sense, when I saying something "my," that is different from when I say "my God." That is different. That is not exactly... As we think in the material way, "my thing," "my God," "my home," "my wife," "my wealth," "my bank," it is not like that. But the relationship... Just like I say "my hand." So how can I express? Just like Kṛṣṇa says mamaivāṁśo [Bg. 15.7]. Mama means "Mine." "These, all these living creatures, they are My part and parcels." So why the living creatures shall not say "my God"? Do you follow? Kṛṣṇa says "You are Mine." Why shall you not say, "Kṛṣṇa, You are mine." Your husband says, "You are mine." Why shall you not say, "You are mine"? But don't take it in the material sense. In material sense, as soon as I say it is mine, it is nobody else's. It is my property. Law of identity or something like that. So Kṛṣṇa is not like that. So you can say Kṛṣṇa, "my," there is no harm. Rather, if anyone wants to possess something as his, then that should be, that possession should be Kṛṣṇa. That is the ultimate conception of "mine." That is the perfection of the word "mine." So it is quite nice, quite fit to... Teṣu te mayi, in the Bhagavad*-gītā. "He is Mine and I am his," Kṛṣṇa says. So this is not wrong. And what is your idea, that because everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, therefore I shall not say "my"? That's your idea?



Himāvatī: No, I didn't understand it like this, that Kṛṣṇa is the Lord. So my Lord is everyone else's Lord, and He's the controller, and that's why He's mine.



Prabhupāda: He's mine, He's your, everyone's. That's all.



Himāvatī: I can understand it now.



Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes?



Rukmiṇī: How does (one) feel so far away from you when you're not here?



Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that? I did not follow.



Rukmiṇī: I feel so far away...



Prabhupāda: Janārdana?



Rukmiṇī: I feel so far away from you, you know, when you're not here.



Janārdana: She's saying she feels so far away from you when you are not here.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, that you should not think. If... The words... There are two conceptions: the physical conception and the vibration conception. So physical conception is temporary. The vibration conception is eternal. Just like we are enjoying or we are relishing the vibration of Kṛṣṇa's teachings. So by vibration He is present. As soon as we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or chant Bhagavad*-gītā or Bhāgavata, so He is present immediately by His vibration. He's absolute. Therefore try to remember His words of instruction; *you'll not feel separation. You'll feel that He is with you. So we should associate by the vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. Śabdād anavṛtti. By sound. Just like we are touching Kṛṣṇa immediately by sound. Sound vibration. So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Kṛṣṇa or of the spiritual master. Then we'll feel happy and no separation. When Kṛṣṇa departed from this world, at that time Arjuna was overwhelmed with sorrow and he began to remember the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā. You'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then he was pacified. He immediately began to remember the teachings which was taught to him in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and he was pacified. He was his constant friend, so when Kṛṣṇa went to His abode he was feeling overwhelmed, but he began to remember His teaching. So whenever we shall feel separation, the best thing is to remember the teachings. Then it will be very nice. Is that clear? Yes. So you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Janārdana, you can play mṛdaṅga. Yes. (kīrtana) (end)





680819SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.12

-

Montreal, August 19, 1968



Prabhupāda:



tasmād ahaṁ mahi gṛṇāmi vigata-

viklava īśvarasya yathā manīṣam

*nīco jayā guṇa*-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ

pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena

[SB 7.9.12]



*This is the prayer of Prahlāda Mahārāja, a great devotee of Lord. So he has described that although he was born of an atheistic family, but still, Kṛṣṇa, or God, does not take account of a devotee, in which family he belongs. Kṛṣṇa does not take account, God does not take account of the family of breeding. He's equally kind to everyone. You have seen the picture, that Kṛṣṇa is loving both the calves and as well as the gopīs. In the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction that one is on the higher level or one is on the lower level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. In the Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, it is said that those who are actually learned, they have no such distinction. Although in material consideration, according to the body, there is distinction, in the spiritual platform there is no such distinction. Kṛṣṇa therefore says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Anyone, it does not matter in which family he belongs to, if he takes shelter unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, never mind what he is. He may be a man, he may be a woman, he may be a śūdra, he may be a brāhmaṇa or he may be black or he may be white. Everyone can approach to the highest platform of devotional service. It is open field.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he was born of an atheistic family, he's taking courage: "The Lord has no such distinction; *therefore I shall pray according to my capacity." Bhāva*-grāhī janārdana. Bhāva. The Personality of Godhead takes account of your mental... Not exactly mental-your spiritual attraction, how much you are attracted. This attraction is the main thing. As I have several times explained in this meeting, that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharma yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. What is the highest type of religion? Everyone will say that "My system of religion is better than yours." That is quite natural. A Hindu will say, "Oh, I am better than the Christian." Christian will say, "I am better than the Hindu." But Bhāgavata says that that is not the test of religion. Bhagavat says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That type of religion is the best by which one develops love of Godhead. That's all. The test is how much you have developed love of Godhead. Bhāva-grāhī janārdana. In Vedic literature it is said that God, Kṛṣṇa, simply accepts your bhāva or your situation, how much you have developed your attraction for God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is taken into account. He does not take account that "Oh, you are very rich. You are very beautiful. You are very opulent," or "You are very poor. You are not beautiful." These considerations are not there. The only consideration is how much you love God. Then your life is successful.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, therefore, taking courage, that the material qualifications are not assets to approach God, but it is only devotional service, service attitude. "Kṛṣṇa, or God, I love You. I can sacrifice You... I can sacrifice everything for You." Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He sacrificed even his life. The gopīs, they also sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. This is wanted. The degree of sacrifice, the degree of attachment is taken into consideration by God, not any material opulence. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is encouraged. Tasmād ahaṁ vigata*-viklava īśvarasya sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam: "Therefore I shall try to offer my prayers according to my capacity." It is not that because one does not know Sanskrit or a particular type of language and he cannot pray very nicely with poetic simile, metaphors... These things are not required. Simply you have to open your feelings of love of Godhead. Then He's pleased. It does not depend on the particular type of language or poetic ideas. No. There is one verse in the beginning of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that,

*tad*-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

[SB 1.5.11]



*It is said that a verse written in broken language... Suppose a person, a great devotee, is writing some prayers for God, but he has no idea of the rhetorical or prosodic method, the system of poetry. He has no such idea, but he is simply expressing his feeling. But if that feeling is correct, even the language is broken... There are many examples. Just like a child, he prays mother, parents, simply by crying. It has no language, but the mother understands what is the feeling of the child. It is the feeling that is taken into consideration, not the language. So Prahlāda Mahārāja very much encouraged, that tasmād ahaṁ vigata*-viklava.



*So without any doubt, īśvarasya, of the Lord, sarvātmanā, wholeheartedly, without any reservation, if I say, "My dear God, my dear Kṛṣṇa, from today I surrender unto You. Please protect me," this very language, this very feeling will give you all protection. It is so nice. He does not require to be very learned man. In the spiritual platform there is no such consideration. Tasmād ahaṁ vigata...īśvarasya sarvātmanā. So the qualification is, without any reservation-"So much for God, so much for my sense gratification," there is reservation. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also the same thing is ordered by Kṛṣṇa: sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Don't divide your energy, that "So much energy for God, so much energy for māyā, or matter." No. Sarvātmanā. Fully. Then whatever energy you have got, that is sufficient to approach God. It doesn't matter what you are. Sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam. Yathā manīṣam means "as far as it is possible by me." Nīco ajayā, "although I am born low," guṇa visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ, "but as soon as the vibration of Lord's name will enter unto me, so I am, I may be qualitatively very low..." Just like there are three qualities. Someone may be in the quality of goodness, someone may be in the quality of passion, someone may be in the quality of darkness, or ignorance. But Kṛṣṇa, or God, is transcendental to all qualities, because He's Supreme Spirit. We are also transcendental to all qualities, but at the present circumstances we are under the clutches of this qualitative existence. Somebody is very good man, somebody is very passionate man, somebody is ignorant fool. These are all qualitative representation of this material world. But as soon as you come to the platform of God, you transcend all the qualities. All the qualities. There is no such distinction, "good man," "bad man," "this man" or "that man." In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated,

māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi

bhakti yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Anyone who is engaged in unalloyed devotional service to the Lord, without any reservation*-avyabhicāriṇi, not adulterated, simply pure love of Godhead, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], favorably-how God will be pleased. With this feeling, if one is engaged in devotional service, māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi bhakti yogena yaḥ sevate... If anyone is engaged in that way, then what is his position? Sa guṇān samatītyaitān [Bg. 14.26]. There are three qualities of the material nature, namely goodness, passion and ignorance. He at once transcends. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Immediately he is spiritually identified. Immediately.



*So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, if we do it very nicely... Nicely does not mean that we have to become a very nice musician or very artistic singer. No. Very nicely means sincerely and with great attention. The process is the highest yoga system. This transcendental vibration, if you simply concentrate your mind on the vibration "Hare Kṛṣṇa..." Other kinds of yoga system is not possible in this age. You cannot meditate on a particular subject matter because mind is so agitating and changing that you try to fix up your mind on a particular subject matter, but mind flickers from one subject to another, another, to another. Then it becomes something else. But this vibration is so nice that even if your mind is flickering, the sound will force you to, I mean to say, draw your attention. "Hare Kṛṣṇa." So therefore... And it is very easy. For other sort of meditation, you have to learn how to sit down, how to fix up your body. You have to select a nice place, a solitary place, a purified place. You have to sit down in a certain posture. So many things. Those things are not possible at the present age because we are so much disturbed by the present atmosphere, everyone. Just like this morning you have news that the Russians have captured Czechoslovakia. How much distressed they are. I heard from the newspaper that several of them were crying. So this is the position. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam [SB 10.14.58]. Every step, there is danger. The material conditional life is so obscure that every step. Therefore the first*-class process of yoga is this bhakti-yoga. Simply you turn your attention to this vibration and chant it according to your capacity. It does not require any pre-education. Prahlāda Mahārāja said yathā manīṣam. Yathā manīṣam means "as far as it is in my power." So you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa as far as in your power. That means you can chant whenever it is possible. It is not that you have to go to a temple on a particular time and chant. No. While you are walking, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Practically we see, when we pass on the street, some of the children, seeing us, say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa." Even the children, they can also chant. It is so nice thing. Because they have no convention. So this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will give him some effect. Yathā manīṣam sarvātmanā.

*Then guṇa*-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ. This vibration, as soon as enters within your mind, anupraviṣṭaḥ, because this vibration is absolute, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His name. So Kṛṣṇa is always within you. God is always within you as the Supersoul. So this transcendental sound immediately reminds you, so you become immediately connected. And it is said that those who are engaged in such yoga system, bhakti-yoga system... Śṛṇvatāṁ sva kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. This chanting vibration is so nice that at least you become pious. Puṇya śravaṇa-kīrtana. Anyone who hears, he becomes purified. Puṇya śravana-kīrtana. Hṛdy antaḥ sthaḥ. And the Supreme Lord Paramātmā, Supersoul, is within you. As soon as you begin chanting, then hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. Abhadrāṇi means all dirty things that you have accumulated birth after birth, due to this material contamination... Hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti. Vidhunoti. Vi means "particularly," and dhunoti, "washes." Suhṛt satām. Because He's always our friend. God is always our friend. We do not know that. That is the difficulty. We have lost our friendship with God, and we are trying to make friendship with this and that, with this and that. That is the cause of disturbance in the world. They are trying for establishing peace in the world, but they do not know what is the method of establishing peace.

*The method of establishing peace is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*If you want śānti-śānti means peace-then you should simply understand that everything belongs to God. That's all. Actually it is. Nothing belongs to you. If you are intelligent, if you scrutinizingly study, everything belongs to God. Nothing belongs to me. Even this body does not belong to me. I have come with this body given by God, open-handed, without any asset. And I shall pass away from this world leaving this body open-handed. So actually nothing belongs to me. It is simply māyā, illusion, that we are thinking, "This is mine. This is mine. This is mine." This is the cause. Just like the Russians, they have occupied Czechoslovakia. They are thinking, "It is mine." Or somebody is thinking, "It is mine." This is the cause of... Because it is ignorance. But actually, everything belongs to God. If this sense is spread all over the world-"Nothing belongs to anyone but God, and we are all sons of God"-that is the best communism. Everyone-animal, man, everything-everyone has got right to live. Everyone is God's son. And the whole property belongs to God. If this philosophy is taught, then there will be peace. Otherwise there is no question of peace. So bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. And He is the friend, the sinceremost friend of everyone. Why not? If we are sons of God, who can love more than the father? Naturally, there is affection and love of the father towards children. Don't you find it, how He is providing? Even, although we are disobedient, still, He is supplying all the necessities of our life. He's supplying light, He's supplying water, He's supplying air*-the essential necessities of your life. Without sunlight you cannot live. Without water you cannot live. So by grace of God, you are getting; *still, you are so ungrateful that we do not remember God or offer our gratitude. That is the cause. This godless civilization is the cause of disturbing peace. Bhoktāraṁ sarva..., yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaraṁ suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29].



So this bhakti process is to acknowledge the supremacy of God. He is the maintainer of everyone, as it is stated in the Vedic literature. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Eko. Eko. That one, He's also living entity like you and me. Man is made after God. Therefore God has got two hands, two legs; *therefore you have got two hands, two legs. Imitation. So that eko, that one, is the maintainer of these many so*-called gods. We are also gods in this sense because we are part and parcel of God. Just like a particle of gold is also gold, but that does not mean that the particle of gold is equal to the gold mine. That is the real understanding of philosophy. We are gods undoubtedly. In which way? Qualitatively. God is gold. Because we are part and parcel of God, therefore we are also gold. But He is big gold. He is the greatest gold. God is great. We are smallest gold. And if we understand this philosophy, then we become naturally submissive and our constitutional position... And then our prayer as subordinate, submissive, it is very nicely placed, and God accepts, and then our lost friendship is reestablished. That is the highest perfection of life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached this philosophy, prema pumārtho mahān, that if you want success of your life, then try to achieve your lost loving relationship with God. Then your life is successful. If you want to have success otherwise, that is your defeat.

*The Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto. We are all born ignorant. Unless there is ignorance, nobody takes birth in this material world. Anyone-may be he is Brahmā or the smallest insignificant creature like a germ or an ant-everyone has got body, a particular type of body. So anyone who has got this material body, he is more or less sinful. That is the verdict. Without being sinful, we do not get this material body. And as soon as we are out of the influence of this material energy, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. How? Māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena. Simply by bhakti-yoga. Simply by engaging yourself cent percent, without any deviation, in the devotional service of the Lord, you immediately become freedom or liberation from this material bondage. And if you keep yourself in that position, then you are liberated in this life, and after leaving this body, you get your liberated body. That is mukti. Mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpam. Mukti means when you give up your material contaminated life. Hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sa guṇena avasthiti. To be, I mean to say, situated in the constitutional position, that is called mukti. So our constitutional position is that God is great and we are small. And our position is that God is the Supreme and we are subordinate, and our business is to serve God. This is our position. We are serving, but instead of serving God, we are serving dog. That is the position. But service is there. So when you, actually when we serve God, then we can serve everyone. Because that is real position. Just like if you love your father, then you can love your brothers also. Because you know that "If I don't love my brothers, then father will not be pleased." The center must be the father. So without loving father, you cannot love your family members. Similarly, without loving God, you cannot love, exhibit love, in any way. You may advertise yourself, universal brotherhood and so on, so on. This will be all failure because the center is missing. The present defect is that the center is missing; therefore there is no peace in the world. So we have to search out the center. What is that center?

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



One who has searched out the center, Kṛṣṇa, that "Here is the fountainhead of everything," iti matvā bhajante mām, the intelligent person engages himself in the service of the Supreme Lord and thus he gets peace and prosperity of life.



Thank you very much. Any question?

Young man: How did the gopīs surrender unto Kṛṣṇa? You said they surrendered everything. How did they do it?



Prabhupāda: Gopīs' surrender is the perfection of life. That is the highest perfectional stage of surrender. So that stage is very far, far away. First of all, learn to surrender; then you... Just like let us first of all enter into the school; *then talk of M.A. examination. The gopīs' love is just like M.A. examination. So people are not even schooling. So first we have to surrender by the regulative principle, by the order of the spiritual master: "You do this, you do that, you do this, you do that." Then gradually, ādau śraddhā, if you have got faith, then ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Sādhu-saṅga means to associate with the bona fide spiritual master and abide by his order. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga 'tha bhajana-kriyā. And as soon as you intimately associate with the spiritual master, he teaches you how to develop devotional service. Bhajana-kriyā. And if you are perfectly executing devotional service, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, then all your misgivings and misunderstanding will be cleared. Then niṣṭha, then you get firm faith. Beginning is the faith, but when your misgivings are all, I mean to say, eradicated, then the firm..., faith becomes firm. Tato niṣṭha tataḥ rucis. Then after firm faith, you come to the stage of taste. It is very nice, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tato niṣṭha tataḥ rucis tathāsakti, then attachment. Then you cannot leave. Then ecstasy. Then you come to the stage of gopī love. Don't try to come to the stage of gopī immediately. First of all, follow the rules and regulation. Gradually, when misgivings are all gone, you have got firm faith, attachment, ecstasy, then come to this stage.(?) But the ideal is to come to that stage. Just like a student's ideal is to pass the M.A. examination. But that requires time and endeavor, patience. Not immediately. Yes?



Rukmiṇī: When we learn to love Kṛṣṇa, do we transcend goodness?



Prabhupāda: Transcend? What is that?



Haṁsadūta: When we learn to love Kṛṣṇa, do we transcend goodness?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Goodness is very good in this material world, but that is also a bondage. If I think, "Oh, I am very learned man. I am very good man," that is also bondage. We have to go far above even goodness, which is called śuddha*-sattva. Śuddha-sattva means pure goodness. Now here the sense of goodness, "I am very good," this is mixed with the quality of passion. I am feeling proud of my goodness; *therefore as soon as there is pride, it is mixed up with the quality of passion. So therefore you'll find all the Vaiṣṇavas, they never think that he's very good. He thinks, "Oh, I am the lowest. I am the most fallen." Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kar says, "If anyone recites my name, then all his pious activities immediately becomes vanquished." You see. This is the platform. Tṛṇād api sunīcena. Always thinking very humble and meek. That is above goodness. If I think that I am very good, that is also material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. To think very poor or think very rich or think very bad or think very good, they are all material qualifications. Simply think, "I am the humble servant of the Supreme Lord." That is the, mean, unalloyed goodness. Janārdana? You can chant. And you can take khol. (end)





760219SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.12

-

Māyāpur, February 19, 1976



Dayānanda: "Therefore, although I am born in a demonic family, even still, without any doubt, I may offer prayers to the Lord as far as possible by me. Any person who is engaged in offering prayer and hearing glories of the Lord becomes purified from the material condition of life."



Prabhupāda:



*tasmād ahaṁ vigata*-viklava īśvarasya

sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam

*nīco 'jayā guṇa*-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ

pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena

[SB 7.9.12]



*This verse is given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu in another distinct form, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. It doesn't matter where I am born. That is not important thing. Nīco, even one is very lowborn by breaks of nature... Nobody can guarantee where he'll take his birth. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. I'll have to take my birth according to my fruitive activities, controlled by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. We are all completely under the control of the laws of material nature, guṇa-visarga. So according to the quality or modes of material nature we associate, we create another body. There are many places this thing has been described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māyayā, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 18.61]. Just like that Jumnagar(?) Agarwal, that... He is now in the police custody. Now he is crying, "Save me, save me, save me." But nature's law is very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Once you have committed mistake, immediately nature's law reacts, and it is very difficult to come out of it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā.



*But there is only one way. That is anuvarṇitena, repeatedly chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, repeatedly. That is the only way. Harer nāmaiva kevalam. That is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. This is the simple... Kali-yuga... This is the only way. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann hy asti eko mahān guṇaḥ. This is the greatest qualification of Kali-yuga. Great personalities, they very much eulogize Kali-yuga that there is simple method and so sublime: Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one becomes completely purified. Pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena. Anu means repetition, and anu means following the footsteps of authority, spiritual master, anu. Our process is anu. We don't manufacture anything. We simply follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājanas. Great personalities, great authorities, that is our process. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra na koriya mane āśa **. This is the process. The guru-mukha-padma-vākya **, whatever is coming out of the mouth of the spiritual master... Because he'll never speak nonsense. He'll also speak the same thing which he has heard from his guru. That is called anu, anu, following. So this is very easy. We don't manufacture things. What is the use of manufacturing things? We are imperfect; what we can manufacture? Whatever we shall manufacture, that is imperfect because we are imperfect. The modern scientists, they are manufacturing some ideas. I manufacture, and you manufacture some idea. You defeat me; *I defeat you. So tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. In this way*-I defeat you; *you defeat me*-that will not solve the problem. The problem will be solved when we follow the authority. Anuvarṇitena. Then the problems will be...

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he's already purified. His head was touched by Nṛsiṁhadeva. He's completely pure. Therefore, although he was only a child, five years old, he is speaking the, I mean to say, gist conclusion of the śāstra. Anuvarṇitena. He understood that "I am not born in a brāhmaṇa family. I am born nīca, low*-grade family, asura family. My father was a asura. So I am born of him. So I have no prestigious position. Still, Kṛṣṇa is satisfied simply by devotional service." That has been already explained. "So let me offer my prayers to the Lord sincerely." Yathā manīṣam: "As far as I have got my intelligence... I am not supposed to be very intelligent because I am lowborn. I am not born in a brāhmaṇa family, neither I am old enough, educated. Still, I have to offer my prayers. So let me try to offer my prayers by following the authorities, anuvarṇitena, without any," what is called, "doubt." Tasmād ahaṁ vigata-viklava: "without any doubt." Why? That is the perfect way. If we follow the previous ācāryas, then there is no question of lamentation. Anuvarṇitena. Simply... This is very nice method. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is there, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upa... You haven't got to manufacture for preaching. You haven't got to. This is nonsense. You simply follow what Kṛṣṇa has said. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Then you become guru.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja became guru. Out of the twelve mahājanas he is one of them.

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ

kapilaḥ kaumāro manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmaḥ...

[SB 6.3.20]



*They are mahājanas. So we have to follow Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is our guru, pūrva-ācārya. Nārada is pūrva-ācārya. He is disciple of Nārada. Therefore he is ācārya, and his disciplic succession... There are sampradāyas: Brahma-sampradāya, Kaumāra-sampradāya... Anyone who is bona fide ācārya, he can create his own disciplic succession, but one disciplic succession and the other disciplic-they are not different. They are of the same conclusion. The Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, just like our Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and Nimbārka, and who that? Rudra-sampradāya? Viṣṇu Svāmī. They are all of the same movement. Ārādhyo-bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. That is their conclusion. There is no different conclusion. Although they have got varieties of methods-śuddhādvaita, dvaitādvaita, vaśiṣṭādvaita, like that*-they present the same philosophy in clear way. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu presented the same philosophy, that acintya-bhedābheda. That is ācārya. Ācārya gives some way for simple understanding. The same conclusion, but according to the time, circumstances, they give a very easy method to understand. That is ācārya. Ācārya is following strictly the previous ācārya, but according to the circumstances, he may make little changes. That is... That change is not change from the original idea. No.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja's conclusion is that "I shall offer my prayers, glorifying the Lord according to my capacity." Yathā manīṣam. Everyone is not of the same intellect. You may be more intelligent than me, another may be more intelligent than you, but that varieties of intelligence does not mean missing the real point. The real point is the same. Just like Kṛṣṇa has got so many queens, or He, in Vṛndāvana, He was associated with so many gopī friends or cowherd boyfriends. So everyone was Kṛṣṇa's devotee, everyone loved Kṛṣṇa, but there were varieties, varieties, vaicitra. It is called vaicitra. Kṛṣṇa is not without variety. Just see in the flower. Kṛṣṇa says, puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. The flavor is Kṛṣṇa. We were studying in the morning. But there are still varieties of flavor. The rose flower has got a particular type of aroma; *another flower, aroma. So the Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand that the variety, vaicitra, is creation of Kṛṣṇa. Although they are one, the same, Kṛṣṇa, puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca, but still, there are varieties. Everywhere you'll find varieties, visesata. And the Māyāvādī philosopher-nirviśeṣa. In common English it is said, "Variety is the mother of enjoyment." So Kṛṣṇa wants this variety. So you all are devotees. You, the central point is to love Kṛṣṇa and offer Him service, but that service may be of variety. Variety. You cannot claim that because you are serving Kṛṣṇa in a type, and therefore, if somebody is serving in a different-must be approved by the authority... You cannot criticize him. Varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. The same vegetable, the same ghee, the same salt, same spices, but there are varieties of preparations. That is required. We Vaiṣṇava, we want varieties. Bahūnmukhi-sevā. How... The central point is how... The Vṛndāvana*-Kṛṣṇa is the central point. The cowherd boys, they are satisfying Kṛṣṇa by going in the forest, playing with Him, mock-fighting with Him. That is also variety. And when He comes home, Kṛṣṇa is taken care by mother Yaśodā, different dress, different foodstuff, variety. Similarly, when in the company of the gopīs, varieties, So variety is the mother of enjoyment. So it is not that I'll have to do exactly like you. I'll have to serve Kṛṣṇa, but no mental concoction, following the footstep, anuvarṇitena. Again, you can create variety, but it must not deviate from the original authority. That is wanted.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja decided, tasmād ahaṁ vigata-viklava īśvarasya sarvātmanā. Real thing is with heart and soul everything. No reservation. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa everything, whatever he has got. He says, manasa deha geha, yo kichu mora: "Whatever I have got, no reservation." So what I have got in this material... He said, "I have got this body, material body, lump of matter, and I have got my wife, simply changing from this platform to that platform." Because my business is saṅkalpa-vikalpa. We accept something-"It is very good"*-and next time we reject it-"No, it is not good." This is mind's business. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, "I have got this lump of body." I am... We are very much proud of possessing, but what we have got? We have got this body and the mind. And with the mind we have created so many things-"This is my house. This is my wife. This is my children." Nobody is your. You have come according to your karma, and they have come according to their karma, and it is a play only that one is father, one is mother, one is son. It is by arrangement of the material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. Everything will be finished in the twinkling of an eye. So actually it has no fact, but we think this is our possession. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said that "My possession means some mental concoction and this lump of body." Mānasa deha geha. "So therefore, whatever possession I have got, I surrender unto You." Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. This is surrender. Arpilun tuwā pade, nanda-kiśora.

*So the real process is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and act according to your... Yes, Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. First of all we have to become sincere, heart and soul. Sarvātmanā. Sarva means all, or ātmā means body, ātmā means mind, ātmā means soul. Three meanings of ātmā. So sarvātmanā. Your body the other day I explained, karmaṇā manasā vācā: "By your working capacity, by your mind, by your words..." This is called tri*-daṇḍa. We Vaiṣṇava sannyāsī, we take three daṇḍa. This is three, karmaṇā manasā vācā: by activities, by mind and by words. The preaching is word; therefore word is the last: thinking, feeling, willing, and then action. So mind should be settled up that "I shall sincerely serve Kṛṣṇa, and because I am not expert, therefore to understand how to serve..." Ādau gurvāśrayam. One has to accept guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. The śāstra says, "In order to take direction, one must surrender to guru." Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. That is the whole Vedic injunction.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja has already surrendered to Lord Brahmā, Nārada, and whatever intelligence he has got, he is trying to utilize it for satisfying the Supreme Lord. As yesterday, we have discussed that how we can satisfy Kṛṣṇa. He is ātmarāma. Nija*-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. He's already satisfied with His own profit. What we can satisfy? So our, that endeavor to satisfy means our satisfaction. The example is given that tac ca ātmane prati-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ. If we serve Kṛṣṇa, then we'll be satisfied. We are not satisfied by serving māyā. If we want satisfaction at all, then we serve Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Everyone is dissatisfied. That is... Because we are serving māyā, there must be dissatisfaction. There must be dissatisfaction. Nobody can be peaceful within this material world so long he is under the clutches of māyā. That is not possible. But these rascals, they do not know this. It is said everywhere, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



Kṛṣṇa said, but we do not take Kṛṣṇa's words. Śānti means we have to accept these three principles. What is that? Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer; He is the master; *He is the proprietor. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sar... You are performing yajña. You are performing tapasya, penances. You are observing brahmacarya. So many there are, different rules and regulations. But what is the idea? To serve Kṛṣṇa, or to satisfy... [break] Sense will remain. We do not become imperson, senseless or non-sense. No. The sense must be there. It should be purified. And as soon as we purify, then we have no other business than to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. And so long we are not purified, we satisfy our senses. This is the difference between karma and bhakti.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



680820SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.12-13

-

Montreal, August 20, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*tasmād ahaṁ vigata*-viklava īśvarasya

sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam

[SB 7.9.12]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja is submitting that "I do not require to be highly elevated to offer my prayers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Nobody requires any material acquisition to approach God. We have been discussing this point for the last few days. Simply bhaktyā tutoṣa gaja*-yūtha-pāya. Even an elephant or any other animal can also satisfy the Lord. How? Bhaktyā, simply by feelings of love, that's all.



*So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he is offering his prayers to the Lord, haha prabhu nanda*-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-yuta: "My dear Lord, the son of King Nanda..." Kṛṣṇa's foster father's name was Nanda Mahārāja. So He is very much pleased when He is addressed as "the son of Nanda." [break] He is the original person. He has no father. But He accepts His devotee as His father. He accepts His devotee as mother. He is full in Himself, but still, He awaits the affection of father and mother. This is the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. So He takes pleasure when He is addressed as Nanda-suta, as Rādhā-ramana, like that. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is addressing, "My dear Lord, the son of Nanda," and vṛṣabhānu-sutā-yuta, "and present with the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu..." Rādhārāṇī's father was Vṛṣabhānu. He was also a king. So Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā is combined, and the devotee is addressing, "My dear son of Nanda, You are now united with the daughter of Vṛṣabhānu." Karunā karaha ei bāra: "Now You bestow Your mercy upon this fallen soul." Narottama dāsa kahe. This prayer is offered by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a great ācārya of the Vaiṣṇava-sampradāya. He is saying for himself, "My dear Lord, don't kick me away." Narottama dāsa kahe, nā ṭheliho rāṅgā pāya: "Don't kick me away. Accept me in the service of Your lotus feet." Tomā bina ke āche āmāra: "I have no other shelter than Yourself." This is the sum and substance of all prayers. If you submit to the Lord that "I have no other shelter than Yourself," then He takes at once charge of you. But if you think that "My dear Lord," or "My dear God, I come to You for my daily bread, and as soon as You give me my daily bread, my business is finished with You..." No. That is also very good, but this is not love. This is business. The Kṛṣṇa wants lover not for any business.

*When Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered benediction by the Lord, "My dear Prahlāda, now whatever you want you can ask from Me," Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My dear Lord, You are so opulent and I am so poor. And I am addicted to this material enjoyment. You are offering me, 'Whatever you want, you can take from Me.' " Just imagine. Suppose I am a poor man, and if a rich man says, "Swamijī, whatever millions of dollars you want, you can ask from me," then I shall put my claim, a big, very big amount: "Oh, here is a great opportunity." But Prahlāda Mahārāja refused. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My dear Lord, it is my duty to render service unto You not in exchange of something, gain. Oh, I am not a merchant that I am doing this." Vanig-vṛtti. So the Lord was very satisfied. That is the way of pure devotion. That was taught by Lord Caitanya. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye: [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4] "My dear Lord, I do not ask from You any amount of wealth," na dhanaṁ na janam, "neither any number of followers." Because every one of us, we want to be the richest man in the world, the greatest leader of the world, and to have a very beautiful wife... This is our heart's desire in the material world, to control over a vast mass of people-I want to be prime minister, president, or political leader, Hitler or Gandhi, like that*-and to amass vast amount of wealth. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, no, no. I don't want all these things." This is prayer. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. "Then what for You have come to Me?" Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi: "My dear Lord, I pray that birth after birth I may have unconditional, causeless devotion unto You." Not devotion for some purpose. That is not pure devotee. If you have got some purpose to... That is, of course, accepted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if anyone goes to Lord to pray something with purpose, that is also good. But that is not pure. Pure devotee never asks anything from the Lord. That is pure devotion. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was a pure devotee. Therefore he does not make any business with God, that "I offer You my prayer to take something from You." We shall discuss these prayers of Prahlāda Mahārāja one after another, and in none of the paragraph you will find that Prahlāda Mahārāja is asking something, "Give me this for my sense gratification." No. This is the sign of pure devotion.

*So he says, mahi gṛṇāmi: "I shall simply..." You can pray. Anyone can pray. It does not require any education. If you simply feel, "Oh, God is so great. Oh, He has created the sun. He has created this moon. Oh, He has created the ocean. He has created this air. He has created so many fruits, so many flowers." Go on. You don't require any education. Simply try to understand how great God is. There is no other education required. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says, prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. He says that "I am the taste in the water." Who does not take water? Water is our life. So when you take water, quench your thirst, you can immediately thank God because that taste is God. So immediately you can remember, "O my dear Lord, You have created so nice thing, water. Oh, I am so thirsty. It is quenching my thirst. Thank You." Is it very difficult? But the nonsense, they will not do even this. They'll say, "Oh, God is dead." Therefore we are suffering. We are so ungrateful that we even do not give thanks. In the ordinary way, if somebody gives me a glass of water when I am thirsty-it is etiquette*-I say, "Thank you." And God has given us so vast mass of water in the ocean, in the sea, in the sky. Without water we cannot live. There is no thanksgiving. There is no thanksgiving. Rather, we say, "God is dead." There are so much profuse light. For this electric light you are paying bill to the electric company, and God is supplying so much light, in the night there as moon, in the daytime as sun. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Śaśi means moon, and sūrya means sun. So He is supplying so much light, everything, whatever we require, and there is no thanksgiving. So only one has to become grateful. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "I don't require to be very educated or a learned scholar in Sanskrit or any other language and very poetic so that I have to offer my prayers in a beautiful language and God may be pleased by the poetic idea." Just like some mundane poet thinks that they imagine some poetic ideas and thereby God is pleased. No. Bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya: "The God can be pleased only by the feelings of your love." That is required. But anyone can do that, provided he feels the gratitude that "God is so kind."

*Prahlāda Mahārāja said, nīco 'jayā guṇa*-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena. Now, God is so kind that He is giving you light, air, everything that you require for your existence. Either you give Him thanks or you do not give Him thanks, the supply will be there. But somebody says, "Then what is the use of giving Him thanks?" The use is for yourself. What is that? Prahlāda Mahārāja said, pūyeta yena pumān anuvarṇitena: "If I give thanks to Lord, then I become purified." God does not wait for your thanks. He has already created. But if you give thanks, then you become purified. What is that purification? The purification is that gradually you become liberated from the influence of the materialistic modes. There are three modes of material nature. Somebody is in the modes of goodness; somebody is in the modes of passion; *somebody is in the modes of ignorance. But in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate: "Anyone who is engaged in transcendental loving service," sa guṇān samatītyaitān [Bg. 14.26], "he transcends the influence of these modes of material nature, and" brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, "he becomes Brahman realized." We are already Brahman, but we have to realize. And as soon as you realize... Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as we realize Brahman, immediately we become anxiety-less, prasannātmā.

*So it is for me. We are always suffering with anxiety. Beginning from President Johnson down to the small ant, or beginning from the greatest living creature, Brahma, down to the ant, everyone is anxious. That is material consciousness. And to become free from anxiety is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if you want to be benefited, what is that benefit? The benefit is to become anxiety*-less. That's all. Just like this little child, he is anxiety-less because he is confident that there is his father, his mother, and they will protect him. He doesn't care for anybody. He is free. So that is the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that you shall become a foolish, but the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that you will be happy. You will be happy in the feeling, "There is my protector. There is my protector." There is one nice prayer by Yamunācārya. He says, apaharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitaḥ. Mano-rathena... I... Exactly I don't just now remember. Sa-nātha-jīvitaḥ. Kadāpaharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitaḥ. Bhavantam evaṁ caran nirantaraṁ praśānta-nihśeṣa-manāntaram. He says, bhavantam eva caran nirantaram: "My dear Lord, when I shall be always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Bhavantam eva caran nirantaram. Nirantaram means incessantly, without any partition that "This much I am worldly conscious, and this much I am Kṛṣṇa conscious." No. Simply Kṛṣṇa conscious. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaram. How you can be so Kṛṣṇa conscious? Now, praśānta-nihśeṣa-mano-rathāntaram: "I shall finish altogether all concoction of my mind." Everything is creating different consciousness by the concoction of mind. Sometimes I am feeling, "Oh, I shall become a great businessman," "Oh, I shall become the president," "I shall become the minister," or "I shall become this and that," so many. The mind is always agitating: "I shall possess that thing. I shall possess that thing. I shall kill him. I shall finish him." So these are called mental hallucination. So one has to become completely free from this mental hallucination or craziness. Then one can be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So bhavantam eva caran nirantaraṁ praśānta. Praśānta means prakṛṣṭa*-rūpeṇa śāntaḥ. Śāntaḥ means peaceful, completely peaceful. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraṁ praśānta-nihśeṣa-mano-rathāntaram, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkara. This can be achieved when we constantly engage ourself-our mind, our body, our action, our words-simply for Kṛṣṇa. Simply for Kṛṣṇa. If you talk, you talk for Kṛṣṇa. If you eat, you eat for Kṛṣṇa. If you sleep, you sleep for Kṛṣṇa. If you work, you work for Kṛṣṇa. Always. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaram praśānta-nihśeṣa-mano-rathāntaram, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ. Nitya means eternally. Kiṅkara means servant. Praharṣayiṣyāmi. Oh, you are becoming servant? How you can be happy? "Yes." How one can be happy by servant, becoming servant, there are many instances. Suppose you are working in a private firm. Fortunately you get a very good job in the government service where there are so many regulations. You get pension, you get this, that. So everyone aspires to get some government service. And he becomes satisfied. So if you can become satisfied by becoming a government servant, how much satisfied you will be, just imagine, by becoming the servant of the supreme government, Kṛṣṇa. What is this government? A tiny government. But don't you know how big government is this? This planetary system is running on: the sun is rising in due course; the moon is rising in due course; there is seasonal changes; there are so many demigods, innumerable living entities; their foodstuff is being supplied; *it is being produced in different planets, different varieties. So there is a huge, big government of Kṛṣṇa. So if you become a servant of that big government, how much you will be satisfied, just imagine. If you can become satisfied by serving this tiny government, why not become satisfied being the servant of the supreme government? So to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme satisfaction. It is not that that service is very valuable service. Sa*-nātha-jīvitaḥ. Sa-nātha-jīvitaḥ means that service is not ended, only few minutes' notice. Just like government servant cannot be dismissed simply by saying, "Oh, don't come, come tomorrow. We don't want." So if government service cannot be terminated so whimsically, how Kṛṣṇa's service can be terminated whimsically? No.

*So as soon as you become servant of Kṛṣṇa you get full satisfaction. Sa*-nātha-jīvitaḥ. Sa-nātha-jīvitaḥ means you will understand that "I have a master who is so full, who is so complete, who is so competent, who is so faithful, and who is so nice, there is no injustice." Therefore, those who are mendicants, they are so much confident that "Kṛṣṇa will provide for my subsistence. Kṛṣṇa will..." Abhayam. Therefore they are not fearful. Abhayaṁ sattva-samśuddhiḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that one has to attain to that stage-no fearfulness. Fearfulness is due to our absorption in the material consciousness. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśitaḥ syād īśad apetasya viparyayāsmṛtiḥ. Because we have got a different consciousness, therefore we are fearful. If you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we can never be fearful. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati: [SB 6.17.28] "One who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not afraid of anything." Several times I have given you this example: especially Lord Jesus Christ, he was not fearful. When he was punished to be crucified, he never cared for it. So these are... There are many examples in the history, in the scriptures, that those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious, they are not fearful. Prahlāda Mahārāja himself. He was five-years-old boy, and his father was teasing him, "Oh, you cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Who is Kṛṣṇa?" Atheistic: "You cannot do that. It is my order." He several times pleaded, "My dear father, why you are talking like this? You are also servant of Kṛṣṇa." So he never cared for it. Ultimately he wanted to kill his five-years-old boy, and Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared. And this prayer is in connection with that.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is beginning his prayer:

*sarve hy amī vidhi*-karās tava sattva-dhāmno

brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ

*ksemāya bhutāya utātma*-sukhāya cāsya

vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ

[SB 7.9.13]



*So he is praying, "My dear Lord, here the demigods are present." The demigods means Brahmā, Lord Śiva, and others, Indra. "They all have come here because You have appeared. So they are not troublesome like my father. They are not troublesome. Because my father was a demon, so he was against always, always against God. But these demigods, they are not like my father. So You pacify Yourself. Now my father is killed. That business is finished. Now, these people, they will never create any trouble, so You become pacified." That is the difference between demons and demigods. There are two classes of living creatures always. Either in this planet or any planet within this universe, there are two classes of living creatures. One is called the demon, and the other is called the demigod. What is the difference? The demigods are godly. They accept the existence of God, they obey the orders of God, they act in God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whereas the demons, they don't believe in God, they defy God's regulations, and they want to become imitation God. So Hiraṇyakaśipu was that type of demons, whereas the Brahmā and others, they were not that. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is saying that He īśa. Amy udvijanto bibhrataḥ sarve brahmādayaḥ sattva*-mūrtayaḥ: "Now, because You have appeared in so fierceful appearance, these persons, these demigods, they have become afraid. So they are Your devotees. So for their pacification, please, You also become pacified."



So we shall discuss next meeting. Any question, you can ask. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes?

*Rukmiṇī: Is there a Christ*-loka?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? There are innumerable lokas. Why not Christ*-loka? [break]



*...jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niśkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*In the effulgence, bodily effulgence of Govinda, just like the sunshine is effulgence of the sun planet, similarly, Govinda's planet, the original planet, which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, that is the original effulgence, light. And when that light is distributed there are innumerable universes created. Just like within the sunlight there are innumerable planets. So in each and every planet there are different kinds of living entities, so why not a planet belonging to Christ? There is no doubt about it. There must be. [break] The Fifth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, the description of different planets are there. [break] Question?



Janārdana: You're not supposed to ask from God anything for yourself. So you can ask from God maybe things to help improve your consciousness?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Janārdana: He is asking this question. [break]



Prabhupāda: Ask anything for your necessities. That is pure consciousness.



Janārdana: (translates into French)



*Prabhupāda: Just like a child. He does not ask anything from his parents. The parents are careful to supply everything he needs. Similarly, God is already careful to supply our needs. Just like in the beast society, bird society, they do not pray. They haven't got any church. They do not go to the church to pray, "My dear Lord, father, give us our daily grains," but they are supplied without prayer. So that arrangement is already there. Therefore one who is intelligent, his prayer should be simply gratitude, that "My dear father, You have supplied the necessities of my life so much amply, I must be feeling very grateful. So these preparations I have made for You because it is Your goods. You have supplied these grains, so You kindly first of all take. Then I will take." So Kṛṣṇa*-prasādam. This is Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, acknowledgement. So we are not prepared even to do that, neither we are prepared to follow the rules and regulation. We must follow the rules and regulation, what is allotted for us or what should be offered to Kṛṣṇa. If we want to offer Kṛṣṇa something, then we must offer such things which Kṛṣṇa wants to eat. So we do not know, neither we care to know. We simply ask, "Oh, give me my bread or grains. Then my business is finished." No. That is the difference. But this man who is going to church or temple to ask for food is better than that man who has no connection with God, so much better that he has some relationship with God: "My dear father, You give me." At least, he accepts-"The father sends the bread." That is very good. But when the son will be intelligent, he will know, "The father sends the bread even without my prayer. Therefore I must offer my gratitude." That is intelligence. That is pure devotion. [break] Father is not only my father; He is father of all living entities. So He is supplying other living entities. They cannot offer any gratitude. The beast, the birds, they cannot offer any gratitude. But I am human being, I have got developed consciousness. I must feel grateful for God's mercy and offer my gratitude. That is my duty. (end)





680821SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.13

-

Montreal, August 21, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*sarve hy amī vidhi*-karās tava sattva-dhāmno

brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ

*ksemāya bhūtaya utātma*-sukhāya cāsya

vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ

[SB 7.9.13]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja is induced to pray Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva to pacify. He was in violent feature. So he's requesting, "My dear Lord," sarve hy amī vidhi*-karās tava sattva-dhāmno. "Now, all these demigods, they are Your assistants, and they are situated in transcendental position." Sattva-dhāmno. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva-śabditam. Our situations are differently calculated. Not that every one of us is situated on the same platform. On the material platform, we are situated in three different positions: sattva-raja-tama. Sattva means goodness, raja means passion, and tama means ignorance or darkness. So, so long we are in the material platform, the highest positional situation is in the modes of goodness.



*So here it is stated that all these demigods, they are in the modes of goodness. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa. Modes of goodness means those who are brāhmaṇas. And who are brāhmaṇas? Brahma jānāti: one who knows what is Brahman or the Absolute Truth, he is called brāhmaṇa. And he is situated in the modes of goodness. The less intelligent, that means those who are less aware of the Absolute Truth, according to the less awareness, the position is different. The first*-class position is one who is aware of the Absolute Truth, he is in the goodness. Less awareness is the kṣatriya, or in the modes of passion. Less awareness is the vaiśyas, the mercantile class of people. They are in the third position. And the śūdra, they are in the fourth position, in the darkness, unawareness. And again, the degree of unawareness makes more and more abominable condition of life. Just like animal life. So here Prahlāda Mahārāja says that you have nothing to be disturbed by these people because they are in the modes of goodness. Therefore if we can produce population in the modes of goodness, there will be no problem in this material world even. Just like in the Satya-yuga, they were all brāhmaṇas, in the modes of goodness, so there was no trouble. And again, Tretā-yuga, seventy-five percent, modes of goodness. In the Dvāpara-yuga, fifty percent, and the Kali-yuga, seventy-five percent calculated to be in the modes of ignorance. Therefore we are feeling so much disturbances in the social condition, in the political condition.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja assures that brahmādayo sarve hy amī vidhi*-karāḥ. Vidhi-karāḥ means administrators. The demigods are different administrators appointed on behalf of the Supreme Lord. Just like the sun-god, he is also called god because he is godly. So he is supplying us heat and light. Similarly, there is Indra. He is supplying us water. Candra is supplying us moonlight. Varuna is supplying us air. There are different controllers. Don't think that there is no controller. There is controller. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "All these natural rules and regulations, they are being conducted under My superintendence." It is foolishness to understand that there is no director or no supreme controller or superintendent in these affairs. This is scanty explanation, that "Nature is doing." No. Nature cannot do. Nature is dull. Nothing can move without spiritual touch. Matter is dull. A stone, however great it may be, without touch of a spiritual individual soul, the stone cannot move. So similarly, the whole gigantic material cosmic manifestation is being moved by the spiritual touch, and there are different departments, and they are called vidhi-karāḥ. Vidhi means regulative, and karāḥ means the performers. So he says, sarve hy amī vidhi-karās tava sattva-dhāmno brahmādayo. And he specifically mentions now, brahmādayo, headed by Lord Brahmā.

*Brahmā is considered to be the head of all demigods. So brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ. Vayam iva. He is taking the part of his father. He's born of a father, a first*-class atheist. So he is taking the side of his father, although he's more than Brahmā. Because Brahmā could not pacify the Lord. Brahmā requested Prahlāda, "My dear boy, the Lord has appeared to mitigate your trouble; *so you try to pacify Him. We have failed." But just see. This is the behavior of Vaiṣṇava. He is the prominent personality in that assembly. Still, he says that "All these demigods, they are not like us, disturbing. I am born of atheistic father. Our family, our community, our society"*-vayam, vayam means "we"-"Our society, country, family, they're all disturbing." Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "We are all disturbing because we are atheistic." In other words, the more the population is atheistic, the more disturbance in the society. So he says that these demigods... As I explained the other day, there are two classes of men everywhere: one godly and the other atheist. The atheistic are always disturbing, and godly persons, they're peaceful. They're not disturbing. Whenever we'll find disturbance, you must know there is atheistic population. And peaceful country or a godly persons, they are never disturbing. So Prahlāda Mahārāja takes the side of the atheistic population because he was born of atheistic father, and he recommends that "These brahmādayo, these demigods headed by Brahmā," he īśa, "my dear Lord," vayam iva, "just like us," na ca udvijantaḥ, "they are not disturbing. They are very peaceful."

*So they do not know the peace formula. They are creating atheistic population and they want peace. How it is possible? Just like I remember, I read in a paper that Archbishop of Canterbury, he said in a lecture that "You want kingdom of God without God." So similarly, the world is after peace. There are so many associations, societies, United Nations. They are after peace, but they are all groups of atheistic people. Therefore the members of the United Nations, they are themselves fighting some way or other. How there can be peace, because they are themselves disturbing? How they can be in peace? You cannot expect any peace in atheistic society or animalistic society. So they must be made godly. God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then there will be peace. God conscious and atheistic people, what is the difference? The difference is that atheistic person thinks "mine." "Everything mine. I am the lord of all I survey. I am the king. I am the leader. I am everything, and everything belongs to me." This is atheistic temperament. And godly persons? They think everything God's. That is the difference. The thing is there. Take anything, your country, your home, your wealth, anything. As soon as you say, "It is mine," then it is atheistic. And as soon as you say "It is God's," then you are godly. You are there, the things are there. Simply change of consciousness. That's all. Simply change of consciousness. Just like in India, twenty years ago, say, in 1947, we were under the British rule. Now, what is the independence? Independence means they're thinking that "I'm not in British rule." That's all. The government is the same, the clerk, the minister, the secretary, the government house, the administrative, I mean to say, process*-everything is there. Simply a change of consciousness. A change of rubber stamp. That's all. Formerly the rubber stamp was "His Majesty's Government," and now the rubber stamp is "Indian Government." That's all.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean... God consciousness does not mean that you have to revolutionize everything. No. Simply you have to change. And actually that is the fact. When I think it is God's... Say, for my country. I am claiming now, "My country," but actually it is not my country. Everything God's. Who has created this country, this vast land, the sky, the sea, the ocean? I have not created. So how can I claim that this is mine? I have come empty*-handed from the womb of my mother, and I shall go empty-handed. So why do I claim it is mine? So this is ignorance. Actually, I am claiming others' property as mine. This is atheistic. Just like thieves. Bhagavad-gītā it is said, stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. Stena eva sa ucyate. One who thinks that "The world belongs to me or to my nation or to my family or to my community," he is thief. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. The Vedic literature informs us that everything belongs to Īśa, God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yad kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat. And by Him it is going on: the Supreme Spirit. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, yayedam dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. Just like what is the value of this city of Montreal? Because there are so many living entities. That's all. If the all men and women immediately becomes dead, what is the value of this city? Is there any value of the matter? No. Because the living entities, the living force is there, therefore the city has value, the land has value. Suppose if everyone was dead, what was the value of this apartment? Nobody would come and ask for rent. Valueless.

So we have to understand that behind every value there is spirit, Supreme. And the Supreme Spirit is the real value. So Vedic instruction is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: "Everything belongs to God." The world is moving due to that Supreme Spirit or the small spirit. We are small spirit, and God is Supreme Spirit. So we are changing... We are under Him. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We are under His control. So we are also moving; we are also creating. But He is the greatest creator, He's the greatest mover. God is great; we are small. Actually, it belongs to the great. Yat kiñcid jagatyaṁ jagat tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. Therefore tena. Tena means "therefore." Tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Tyaktena bhuñjīthā means tyakta. Tyakta means "sacrificing." Because it is God's, therefore you must go to the God. That mentality is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like suppose in this room there is one note, hundred dollars. Somebody finds: "Here is a hundred dollar note." Now it belongs to somebody. It has fallen some way. Somebody has lost. So how to utilize this hundred dollar found by me? If I take it in my pocket, then I am thief. And if I neglect it, somebody may take it away. It is misused. The best use is to find out the man, the owner, and hand it over to him. That is the best use. Similarly, if everything belongs to God, if I want to occupy it by force, I am thief. Stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. Every one of us who is trying to occupy some portion of land, country, in the name of "It is my country," and fighting, both of them, they are thieves because that land does not belong to anyone. No nation. It belongs to God. If... We can understand, if the United Nation passed resolution that "The whole planet belongs to God; we are sons of God; so let us live peacefully as sons of God," oh, there is no quarrel. But that they will never understand. They'll simply try to divide. Just like some gangs of thieves, they have stolen some property. Now they have come out, and they're dividing, and one of them is asking, "My dear brothers, let us divide piously. Let us divide piously." (laughs) Nonsense. The whole property is impious. So what is the meaning of your piously divided?

*Just like in India, nonvegetarian diet, according to Vedic system it is condemned. Nobody can eat any meat. But now they have learned how to eat meat. They are doing that. So somebody is saying, "Yes, today I have cooked meat, but in the Ganges water." Ganges water is considered to be pious. So he thinks by cooking meat in the Ganges water, it has become purified. You see? This is our mentality. We are bent upon doing all nonsense, and we want to get it supported by religious cover. Just like recently, the Christian world, they wanted support from the Pope of contraceptive method. That contraceptive method is condemned, but they want to be supported by the religious head. "If you don't support, then you are not good man. And if you support my nonsense, then you are very good man." Just like that Maharishi came here, and he supported that "Whatever nonsense you like, you do. You simply pay me thirty*-five dollars and I give you one mantra, and within six months you become God." Oh, he looted your country. And after looting, he said, "Oh, my mission is failure." Because he has got his money, now he'll go. This is going on because we want to be cheated. Therefore cheaters come and cheat us. And as soon as say, "No. Everything belongs to God, my dear friend. You don't claim anything as yours. Because it belongs to God or Kṛṣṇa, you employ everything for His service"-"Swamijī is very conservative." You see. So actually, it is the fact.

*So Brahmādaya, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "These demigods, they are not disturbing like that." Brahmādaya. Brahmādaya vayam means "We are disturbing because we are atheistic. We do not accept God. My father never accepted God and he wanted to teach me that there is no God. So I refused my father's teaching. So he tortured me so much." Still, he is taking his father's side. Now we have to study this fact, that a Vaiṣṇava is never proud of his assessment. He'll never think, "Because I am Kṛṣṇa conscious, so I have become so great." No. He thinks always very humble and meek. This is the example. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He was so powerful devotee that Lord Caitanya used to come daily at his place. But he was thinking, "Oh, I am born in Muhammadan family, so I cannot enter into Jagannātha temple." Similarly Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was also not entering the temple of Jagannātha. That does not mean that they were lower than somebody else. No. But it is the, I mean to say, general tendency of a devotee that he always thinks that "I am lower than the lowest. Lower than the lowest." Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha [Cc. Ādi 5.205]. Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, the author of a literature, Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, unique in the world, he said that "I am lower than the worm in the stool." Purīṣera kīṭa haite. Purīṣa means stool and kīṭa means worms. There are some worms in the stool. So he said that "I am lower than that worm in the stool." Just see.

*Similarly Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My dear Lord, these demigods, they are all devotees. They are Your obedient servant. Sattva*-dhāmno. And they are not like us, disturbing." Kṣemāya bhūtaya utātma-sukhāya cāsya vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ. "And Your appearance as Nṛsiṁhadeva is not for me, but for them. Because I am born in atheistic family. It is Your determination that You want to cut down the atheistic people. So it is automatically You have cut down, You have killed my father. But Your real business was to protect these demigods, Your devotees." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, yuge yuge sambhavāmi [Bg. 4.8]. Dharma saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. So the Lord appears with two missions. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām: just to rescue the devotees or the persons in goodness, sādhu. Sādhu. There is description, definition of who is a sādhu. Sādhu means saintly person. In French language, I think it called saint? Saint? But actually the saint is in Sanskrit language also. Santa. Santa. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. In Sanskrit language the saintly persons are called santa. Maybe it is Latin derivative, because in Latin there are many words resembling Sanskrit. And Professor Rowe, a great English scholar in India, an Englishman, professor in Presidency College, he wrote one grammar, English grammar. In our childhood we had to read. He has stated that "Sanskrit is the mother of all languages." Anyway...

*So when God appears, incarnates, descends, His business is to protect the devotees, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. That is His first business. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām: and to kill the unfaithful, miscreants. For them, God does not require to come Himself. Side by side, He does so. If God likes, He can kill thousands of miscreants by one stroke. So that business does not depend on Him, that He would come to kill a demonic person. The real business is to protect the devotees, the faithful. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kṣemāya bhūtaya utātma*-sukhāya cāsya vikrīḍitam: "Actually, You have appeared for these persons, to protect them, for their happiness," sukhāya, "and for their elevation." Just like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, or Vedic literature, or any scripture. For whom they are meant? Those who are godly, for their elevation, so that they can elevate more and more. It is not for the atheistic persons. They do not believe in God. So Bible or Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, they are not meant for the atheistic persons. So whatever auspicious things are in the world, they are meant for the faithful, not for the atheistic persons.

Thank you. Any questions?

Young man: [break] ...from the modes of ignorance to the modes of passion to the modes of goodness is a very gradual process?



Prabhupāda: Why gradual? You can immediately transcend all the processes by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious immediately.



māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi

bhakti yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, the Lord says, "Anyone who is engaged in unalloyed devotional service unto Me, so he is transcendental." Sa guṇān samatītyaitān. Guṇān means these modes, different modes-modes of ignorance, modes of passion, modes of goodness. Goodness is also material. That is not spiritual. If you become very good moralist or very religious, following all the rules and regulations, that is good but that is not spiritual. The spiritual is far above. So one... We have to transcend the position of worldly goodness. Somebody asked me this question, "Swamijī, if a person is moral and dutiful and benevolent, all the good qualifications, so what is the use of worshiping God?" My reply was that anyone who is not God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot be good, cannot be moral. It is not possible. Harāv abhakta... I am not manufacturing this. This is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhagavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. So take for example that, our, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he was considered to be a very good man... [break] They may be good, but they are not ultimate good. The ultimate good is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is good for you and good for all. Anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is good in this sense, because he is in transcendental position, and whatever he speaks, because he speaks about God, therefore speaking is not adulterated. So this position, as soon as you take it a principle of your life, that "I shall simply be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, or God's service. I shall talk about Kṛṣṇa, I shall work for Kṛṣṇa, I shall write for Kṛṣṇa, I shall read for Kṛṣṇa. Everything for Kṛṣṇa," that is the transcendental position beyond goodness, better than goodness. So one can be situated in this position immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. It is not very difficult. Yes, what is your...?



Young woman: All right. You answered my question. Thank you very much for answering my question. You said... I asked you what goodness was, Swamijī, and you said goodness was knowledge.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young woman: Now could you explain what you meant by knowledge? What? Spiritual knowledge or...?



Prabhupāda: No. First of all what is knowledge?



Young woman: Knowledge is material.



Prabhupāda: Knowledge means that you must know what you are. This is knowledge. If you don't know what you are, then what is the meaning of your knowledge? So real knowledge means that ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not matter, I am a spirit soul." That is real knowledge. On the basis of this real knowledge, whatever is done, that is done in knowledge; *otherwise it is done in ignorance. That is the difference. Knowledge and difference. Knowledge is not that you have to get degrees from the university, big, big degrees. No. Real knowledge is that "I am," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul." If one has realized this one word only, then he is in knowledge. He's in knowledge. One who has not realized this thing, he's in ignorance. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who has accepted this body, which is made of three elements, sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and therefore accepted the bodily productions as his own or the place or the land where this body is produced is worshipable... There are so many other things. Naturally, at the present moment, knowledge means that "This is my country." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Chinese." Why? "Because my body is produced from this land." So this is ignorance. Your body... Why your body? The cow's body is also produced from this land. Why do you kill? It has got also right. But because he has no knowledge actually, therefore he is trying to protect his body, but he's not protecting the other's body produced from the land. This is want of knowledge. If he has real knowledge that "I am Brahman, I am spirit," then he can see, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "Oh, the spirit. The cow is also spirit soul, the dog is also spirit soul, I am also spirit soul. Otherwise how I am moving?" The cow is moving, the dog is moving. So,



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*This equal vision is possible for a learned man who sees a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a cow, on the same basis. What is that basis? Spiritual understanding. So unless you are in the spiritual platform, the so*-called knowledge has no value. That is not knowledge. That is ignorance. So real knowledge means spiritual knowledge, that "I am Brahman. I am spirit." Then,



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Other things will follow, and he will be very jolly. This is... A person in knowledge should be in, I mean to say, happiness. That is a sign of knowledge. So one who is in knowledge, he is not disturbed. What was my answer? Huh? [break] Yad anyat tad ajñānam iti matam. Bhagavad*-gītā, Bhagavān said. He has given the definition of knowledge, eighteen items. You'll find in the Thirteenth Chapter. Ahiṁsā. What is called? There are eighteen items. You'll find in the Thirteenth Chapter. The most important point is māṁ ca vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate. The principal point is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is knowledge. Then all knowledge will come automatically. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana. If you take to this knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Lord, Absolute Truth, He is eternal master and we are all eternal servitors, this very knowledge will elevate you to other platforms of knowledge. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. Then all the symptoms of knowledge will automatically manifest in his person. Therefore this is the best process of becoming a man of knowledge or wise man. (end)





760220SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.13

-

Māyāpur, February 20, 1976



Dayānanda: "O my Lordship, all the demigods headed by Lord Brahma, they are all Your sincere servants, situated in transcendental position, and they are not like us, my father, the demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, the demon. Your appearance in this fearful form is Your pastime for Your own personal pleasure, and such incarnation is always for the good and protection of the universe."



Prabhupāda: "Like my father"? Udvijantaḥ is not described here, the meaning of udvijantaḥ?



*Dayānanda: "Udvijantaḥ*-on account of Your fearful appearance they are all afraid."



Prabhupāda: Udvijantaḥ, (Bengali) "disturbing," huh? It has to be correct.



*sarve hy amī vidhi*-karās tava sattva-dhāmno

brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ

*ksemāya bhūtaya utātma*-sukhāya cāsya

vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ

[SB 7.9.13]



*So, distinction between deva and asura. Brahmādayaḥ, beginning from Brahmā... Lord Brahmā is the supreme prajā*-pati. From him, marīcy-ādi, ṛṣayaḥ, all great ṛṣis, they were born. Then, from them, other demigods-Indra, Candra, Varuṇa... So these devas, they are not like the asuras, disturbing elements. That is the difference between the asura and deva. The asura will create a situation which is very, very disturbing to the whole human society. And when there are so many asuras, disturbing elements, at that time the Supreme Personality of Godhead comes down, descends, in His incarnation. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8].



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, trying to pacify the Lord, that "This, Your incarnation, is for the benefit of Your servants, vidhi*-karāḥ." Vidhi-karāḥ means servant. Vidhi-kṛt. Vidhi means law and order, and one who executes the law and order, they are called vidhi-karā. So all the demigods, they are appointed by the Supreme Lord to execute the law and order. Because this material world is a chaotic condition, therefore there is necessity of law and order. In the spiritual world there is no such thing. In spiritual world everyone knows that "The Lord is our master, and we are all servants." That is spiritual world. And material world means that "Why there should be one master? We are all master. Why you are searching after one God? Don't you see? All we are Gods, loitering in the street, especially the poor God, daridra-nārāyaṇa." This is all material conception. Lord is one, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, declares, in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior authority than Me." In many places... Asamaurdhva. Asama, nobody can be equal with God, neither anybody can be higher than Him. That is God. So God is one. There cannot be two Gods. Then there is no meaning of God. Now they manufacture God. In every street, every lane, there is a God.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "All these big, big demigods, they are Your servants." Vidhi*-karās tava sattva-dhāmnaḥ. "You are in transcendental position, and we are all servants." Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya. This is said by Caitanya-car itāmṛta author.

ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya

yāre yaiche nācāya, se taiche kare nṛtya



*Master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. The master can expand Himself as masters. That is another thing. The master is one. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam. The master can expand Himself in many, many thousands and millions of forms, but they are advaita. They are not different. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He married 16,108 wives, so He expanded Himself also into 16,108 forms, Kṛṣṇa. But those expansions, 16,000 expansions, they are one, the same Kṛṣṇa. This is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa may expand Himself in so many forms, but still they are the same. In another place it is exemplified, dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya [Bs. 5.46]. Just like one candle original, and a second candle, a third candle, a fourth candle... You light up many millions of candles, but they are of the same potency. The candle power is not reduced because we have ignited so many candles from the original. No. Advaitam, acyut... Pūrṇasya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. Even though Kṛṣṇa expands Himself in millions and millions and forms, still, all of them are the..., of the same potency. That is called sattva-dhāmnaḥ. So there are different types of expansion of Kṛṣṇa. They are called vibhinnāṁśa, svāṁśa. Kṛṣṇa expands Himself svāṁśa. That is Viṣṇu-tattva. That is advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam [Bs. 5.33]. Then vibhinnāṁśa: mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhutaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Jīva also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa, but we are vibhinnāṁśa, separated forms. And svāṁśa, Viṣṇu-tattva, that is one. So in this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa's expansion.



*So, sarve hy amī vidhi*-karāḥ. These vidhi-karāḥ, they are not svāṁśa; *they are vibhinnāṁśa. Brahmā and other demigods and we, we are of them same category, not that because one has become Brahmā, so he is equal to the Supreme Lord. No. That is not possible. Śiva*-viriñci-nutam: [SB 11.5.33] "The Supreme Lord is worshiped even by Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva." Nobody can be equal. This Māyāvāda philosophy that in whichever form you worship the Lord, they are all the same-no, they are not same. Therefore here it is said, vidhi-karāḥ, brahmādaya, "They are all your servants, vidhi-karāḥ." Vidhi-karās means who executes the order of the Supreme Lord. That is devatā. And one who wants to become one or equal with the Supreme Lord, they are asuras. They always create disturbance. At the present moment there are so many asuras. Everyone is defying the supremacy of the Supreme Lord. Everyone is trying to become God. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. If we want to adjust this chaotic condition, then we require the incarnation of God. That is already there. Nāma-rūpe kali kāle kṛṣṇa-avatāra. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa in the form of name. There is no difference... The saṅkīrtana movement which was inaugurated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. So abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is not different from Kṛṣṇa or Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if we take shelter of this holy name of the Lord, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then we shall be saved. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām [Bg. 4.8]. We shall become sādhu simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12].

*We are all sādhus, actually, originally, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, but in contact with māyā, we have become asādhu. Sādhu means who are pure devotees. Bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk. That is sādhu. Otherwise there is no sādhu. The so-called sādhu, they are not sādhu. Sādhu means bhajate mam ananya-bhāk. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ, bhajate mām ananya-bhāk [Bg. 9.30]. So by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, even the lowest of the mankind, narādhamā, he can become a sādhu. "What is evidence how one can become sādhu simply by chanting?" Yes. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, pāpī tāpī yata chilo, harināme uddharilo tāra sākṣi jagāi and mādhāi. Just see how Jagāi-Mādhāi became sādhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu introducing this saṅkīrtana movement, He is making everyone sādhu. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Everyone is becoming sādhu. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. So this avatāra, nāma-rūpe avatāra, there is no difference. Nāma-cintāmaṇiḥ-kṛṣṇaḥ caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. The nāma is also vigraha, another form of the Lord, rasa-vigraha. So if we take shelter of this avatāra, rucy-avatāraiḥ... Every avatāra, every incarnation of Kṛṣṇa is very pleasing. Because Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasure, therefore His avatāra... Just like Nṛsiṁhadeva, although He is very ferocious to asuras... They are disturbed. They are disturbing elements and they are disturbed. But Prahlāda Mahārāja is not disturbed. He's peaceful. So Lord's incarnation, either He is very ferocious or He's very kind, for the devotees there is no disturbance. Devotees are not disturbed, and the asuras are disturbed. So take shelter of the holy name of the Lord. Then disturbing condition of this material world will not touch you.

*Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. There is a blazing fire. That is the duty, that is the business of... Vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāravindam. How to extinguish the blazing fire of this material world*-that is the duty. Every devotee, every pure soul, duty is how to extinguish the blazing fire. And that can be done only by pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise it is not possible. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam-bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇam... Śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā. The ultimate benefit of life is compared with the moon. So spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness means spreading the moonlight. Therefore we have named this temple Śrī Māyāpura-candrodaya. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Gaura Hari, Māyāpura-cand... Caitanya-candra. Caitanya-candra anurāga. The Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, this, kurutānurāga. Caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāga. Caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāga. Sādhava sakalam eva vihāya durāt caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. This is the instruction of Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, one of the great devotees of Lord Caitanya. So they are of the same opinion. There is no difference, opinion, between the modern devotee and the old devotee. A devotee is devotee, as there is no difference between modern gold or old gold. Gold is gold. So we should take the path of devotional service, following Prahlāda Mahārāja, and his prayers, his instructions are so valuable that even simply by reciting this Prahlāda Mahārāja's stotra, this stotra... This prayer of Prahlāda Mahārāja is very, very important. You read it carefully and try to understand. Even the most wretched demon can become a great devotee.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



680822SB.MON

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.13-14

-

Montreal, August 22, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*sarve hy amī vidhi*-karās tava sattva-dhāmno

brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ

*ksemāya bhūtaya utātma*-sukhāya cāsya

vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ

[SB 7.9.13]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is requesting Lord Nṛsiṁha that "Now You can become peaceful because the disturbing element, my father, is now finished." So there are two missions when Kṛṣṇa appears, incarnation: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. This material world is a field of activity for the persons who have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. But there are regulative principles, Vedic knowledge. If we act according to the regulative principle, then we can enjoy. Not actually enjoy, but we think we enjoy. Because in the material world, there is nothing enjoyable for the spirit soul. Just like a fish, it is an animal of the water. It has nothing to enjoy on the land. So if, by mistake, a fish thinks that "I shall become an elephant and enjoy in the land," that is not possible. Similarly, we spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, we are all Brahman, and we have nothing to do with this material world. But because we are Brahman... Brahman means ānandamaya. Ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa. The Supreme Brahman is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. And we are part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. Therefore we are also sac-cid-ānanda, eternal, blissful, and full of knowledge. But somehow or other, icchā-dveṣa-samutthena... [Bg. 7.27].



*Icchā*-dveṣa-samutthena. The real basic principle of our materialistic life is dveṣa. Dveṣa means when we become envious of Kṛṣṇa, that "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be the supreme enjoyer?" In this world, in practical experience, we have seen that many people say that "Kṛṣṇa enjoyed rasa-līlā. Why we shall not?" So this is, imitation rasa-līlā is going on in this material world, but they cannot be satisfied because it is imitation. Just like if a female takes the part of a male and wants to imitate the enjoyment, it is simply false. Similarly, we are constitutionally female, enjoyed, prakṛti. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā jīva-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho [Bg. 7.5]. Prakṛti means female, enjoyed. So jīva is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as prakṛti. The first prakṛti is the material elements, eight.

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ buddhir mano eva ca

aparā...

prakṛti me bhinnā aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



*These are separated energy. But apareyam, they are inferior. Apareyam itas tv anyā parā. Besides this material nature, this dull matter, there is another nature: prakṛti, parā prakṛti, the jīva. So the real life is to be enjoyed by the Lord. Enjoyed. That means real life is to become eternal servitor. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa*-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is his constitutional position. But by imitation he wants to become the master. And when, iccha, when he develops that desire and envies the Lord, that "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be enjoyer? I shall be enjoyer also," this is icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. Sarge means in this creation.



*So any living entity who is within this material world, they have come here with that two principles*-icchā, dveṣa. Icchā means they want to be happy with material enjoyment and "What is God? I am God." These two things. The whole disease is on these two principles-denying the supremacy of the Lord and to try to be happy by material adjustment. But that is not possible. This is simply disturbing. Simply disturbing. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī has mentioned in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu that,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi

*pañcarātriki*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktiḥ

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*Persons who are ignorant of the Vedic principles, śruti, and smṛti, corollaries to the śruti, and Purāṇa... There are eighteen Purāṇas. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam is called Maha-purāṇam. So śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi [Brs. 1.2.101] and pañcarātriki-vidhi, Nārada-pañcarātra. So one should be conversant with all these authoritative scriptures. Without knowing these, if there is an imitation of devotional service, Rūpa Gosvāmī says that is simply disturbance. Simply disturbance. Therefore we see that in India the original principle is Vedic principle, but due to so many reasons, there being no real king or government who can control the citizens, or India being for so many years under the control of foreigners, and at the present moment forgetting their own real culture... Not only India, everywhere the same thing. So they are creating disturbances. Disturbances. Asuric civilization, demonic civilization.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My dear Lord, now the, my father who was atheist and always disturbing... These demigods, they are Your devotees. They are not disturbing elements." Brahmādayo vayam iveśa. Brahmādayo. "All these demigods standing here, headed by Brahmā, they are not like us, like demonic persons like my father and his associates. So You can now be peaceful. Don't show Your anger."

tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya

*modeta sādhur api vṛścika*-sarpa-hatyā

lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyānti sarve

rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti

[SB 7.9.14]



So there may be a question that "Then was Prahlāda Mahārāja very glad that his father was killed?" This question may be raised, that "What kind of devotee he is? He's such a great devotee of Lord, and before him his father was killed, and he is requesting the Lord, 'My dear Lord, the disturbing element is already finished.' That means he's glad that his father was killed." So from social conventional point of view, if a son is glad on the death of his father, do you think it is very nice? No. These points are to be considered. But Prahlāda Mahārāja gives very nice evidence. This is the peculiarity of Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, that whatever they will say, they will give full support. What is that? He says, tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya. Asura. "My father was asura. So because Your mission was to kill, so that, he is killed. And by this killing process, not only myself, but sādhu, all sādhus they are also pleased." Sādhur api. Just see.



*So do you think that sādhu, those who are sādhu, they are pleased when a person is killed? Not ordinary person. He is giving very nice example. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika sarpa*-hatyā [SB 7.9.14]. Vṛścika means scorpion and sarpa means snake. Naturally, whenever a scorpion is found or a snake is out, every man is prepared to kill it. Every man. "Oh, here is a snake. Kill it." When I was in Allahabad, in my bed there was a snake. I do not know how it came, but I informed to the servants, and they came with all stick immediately. So when the bed seat was taken away, it was under the, I mean to say, quilt. So that snake was there, and from the face of the snake I could understand that she was, it was so afraid. He could understand that "Now I'm going to be killed by so many people. They have come." So I told them that "Don't kill this poor fellow. Better take it and send it to the forest." But they took it away, but I later on understood they killed it. So once I saw in our Māyāpur, Lord Caitanya's birthplace, so a snake was going, a black snake with... In Bengal there are many snakes. So my Guru Mahārāja was on the upstair and everyone asked the permission whether this should be killed. He said immediately, "Yes. He should be killed." So at that time I thought that "How Guru Mahārāja ordered for killing the snake?" Then, after so many years, when I began to read Bhāgavatam and came to this passage, Prahlāda Mahārāja assertion, modeta sādhur api vṛścika sarpa-hatyā, then I thought that "My Guru Mahārāja did right thing." Here also, modeta. Even a sādhu. Then why a sādhu is pleased when a sarpa, a scorpion, or snake is killed? The reason is that these two kinds of creatures, they bite innocent persons without any fault. Without any fault. Or for little fault. The venomous snake. Immediately. By nature they are so angry and so envious that they feel pleasure if somebody is bitten and immediately die. That is their nature. Therefore killing a snake and scorpion means to save it from so many sinful activities. Because it is nature. It will kill so many persons, so many animals, because its nature is innocent person, bite innocent person, kill him. So if there is seen by killing another, it will continue. Better to kill it to stop its sinful activities. That is the reason here it is said, modeta sādhur api.

*So the asuras, the atheists, are just like vṛścika and sarpa, scorpion. Without any reason they occupy somebody's country, somebody's place, and kill somebody. This is going on. In the Manu*-saṁhitā it is stated that when a king hangs some murderer it is a great favor to him. It is a great favor to him. In every country, in every civilization, the punishment is "Life for life." If you have killed somebody, then you shall be killed. And it is supported in Manu-saṁhitā that when the king orders that a murderer should be killed, that is a favor to him. Because if he is not killed, then the sinful activities, reaction, will continue, and the next birth he'll suffer. But if he's killed in this life, then all his sinful activities finished. He'll have no more to suffer the reaction. So it is friendly action. Similarly a vṛścika or a sarpa, a scorpion or a snake, if it is killed that means to save it from further, I mean to say, sinful activities. Therefore sādhu, it is said by Brahma, I mean to..., Prahlāda Mahārāja, that modeta sādhur api vṛścika sarpa-hatyā [SB 7.9.14]. Yata artho 'yaṁ manuṣya ca asura sādhūnāṁ santoṣaṁ santoṣārtham arti hataḥ (?). Śrīdhāra Swami is annotating that this killing of Nṛsiṁha, here, uh, this killing by Nṛsiṁhadeva of Hiraṇyakaśipu was for the pleasure of the saintly persons. Was for the pleasure of the saintly persons. Nānu anyeṣāṁ vadhena sādhu kiṁ modeta.

*Does it mean that those who are saintly persons, they take pleasure in other's killing? They try to stop killing. Even animal killing they want to stop. How it is that, they take pleasure in another's killing? Nānu anyeṣāṁ vadhena sādhu kiṁ modeta tatra ha vṛścikādeḥ. Not all. A... Persons, living creatures like the scorpion and serpents. Not all. Everything has got exception. So a sādhu, a saintly person, a righteous person, a religious person, will never be happy by other's killing. But killing of persons like scorpion and serpent... And the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that a person who has envious nature, he's more dangerous than the serpent. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has enunciated that sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ. There are two envious creatures: one is the snake, and another, a man envious, unnecessarily envious of others. So sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ. That man, envious, he's dangerous, more dangerous than the snake. Why more dangerous? Mantrauśādhi*-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ khalaḥ kena nivāryate. You can subdue a snake by herbs and by chanting particular type of mantra. There are many snake charmers in India, by mantra they can charm the snakes. But a person who is envious, you cannot pacify him in any way. Therefore sarpaḥ krūrataraḥ khalaḥ. Just like Jesus Christ was crucified by some envious persons. Even the Roman judge denied that "This man should not be... There is no such fault." But because they were envious, they were persistent, "Yes, he should be crucified." So this is the nature of envious person. Therefore killing of envious persons like Hiraṇyakaśipu... Unnecessarily... He was a child. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a child, innocent child. And his son, and youngest son. And his only fault was that he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And this person was after him, giving him all kinds of trouble. Just see the nature of the envious person. He doesn't care even his son, a child, a devotee. "Oh, this boy must be tortured. This boy must be tortured because he is Kṛṣṇa conscious." "This man must be crucified because he is preaching God consciousness." This is the nature of envious persons. More dangerous. Therefore their killing is the pleasure for the saintly persons. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika sarpa-hatyā. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was glad that his father was killed. So tatrāha (reads commentary) vṛścikādeḥ parapadraka kariṇā anyathaiva jātinā kutra vadhena tasyaiva tad bhadraṁ jātam (?). It is good for it because he is stopped creating nuisance. Creating. If he's stopped, then it is a great benefit for him because his nature is to become envious and torture others. Therefore to kill such person is a great welfare act for him. Tad bhadraṁ yatram eti and sādhur api modeta. And sādhu, saintly persons are also glad. (reads commentary) Tarhi bahūnāṁ sukhāvahaṁ tam amuṁ krodhaṁ na tyajāmi ceti prāha lokāś ca nirmitteḥ prakta-śānti-pratinirjanti saṁhāra pratīkṣante (?).

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is requesting, "Now, my Lord, Your business is finished, and by Your, this action, all saintly persons are pleased. So You can become now peaceful." Lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyānti sarve rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti. "Now people are praying that Nṛsiṁhadeva, Nṛsiṁhadeva is to protect the devotees." Just like a lion. A lion is ferocious to other animals, but he is not ferocious to the cubs. He's very affectionate father, mother, although it is lion. So the cubs, they haven't got to be afraid of the lion. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "My dear Lord, I am not asking You to be peaceful. Don't think that I have become afraid of You." He's so confident. "He is my Lord." He has come in the appearance, in this ghastly appearance, half lion and so big, and He's groaning like anything. So he knows that "He is my Lord. He's same Kṛṣṇa." Nārāyaṇa*-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. One who is elevated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not disturbed in the greatest, facing greatest danger.

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthite na duḥkhena

guruṇāpi vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that if one is perfectly situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then his condition will be like this, that yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Achieving that stage, he'll forget for any other profit. We are hankering after profit, profit after profit. I have got so much money, I want to make it double. When it is double I want to make it ten times. When it is ten times, I'll make it hundred times. Go on increasing. The civilization is increasing. Formerly, people were satisfied if they could build one..., construct one brick house, kota bari. Now they are not satisfied with kota bari, or brick house. They want to make it hundred- or two hundred-, five*-hundred-storied house. And when they'll build, construct five-hundred-storied house, they'll think of thousand-story house. This is the nature. This is the nature. So lābha. Everyone is hankering after more profit, more profit, more profit. But if one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is satisfied.



Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. Dhruva Mahārāja said, "My dear Lord..." Here also you'll see. It was in the previous... When Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered to take benediction from the Lord, he refused. He said that, "My Lord, I am not a merchant that I am Your devotee for some material gain." This will be explained. So a devotee who is in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is satisfied with that consciousness only. Ahaitukī. He has no other reason, "Oh, I am trying to become Kṛṣṇa conscious because I want such and such thing." He has no demand. Simply that consciousness is sufficient. It is so pleasing. It is so satisfying that yasmin sthite, if one is actually situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then guruṇāpi duhkhena na vicālyate. Just see the Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is... So devastating incidences are taking place, when all the demigods have become afraid and his father is killed and very ghastly appearance and the lion form incarnation of the Lord is groaning. But he is not afraid. He's not at all afraid. Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duhkhena na vicālyate [Bg. 6.20-23].

*So next verse will be discussed sometimes later on because I am leaving this place tomorrow. So tomorrow, of course, Rādhāṣṭami, we shall have meetings in daytime. And... Of course, those devotees are present, please come tomorrow, Rādhāṣṭami. Try to understand the Rādhā's position in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice. Try to understand it in so many ways. We have got immense literature. If lifelong we try to understand, there is sufficient stock. It is not hackneyed. You'll get nava*-navāyaman. Newer and newer things you'll get, experience. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. And the more and more you get relish in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your transcendental pleasure becomes more and more appreciated. It is so nice. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ambudhi... Ambudhi means ocean. In the ordinary course, the ocean does not increase. If ocean would have increased, then there would..., so many towns would have been washed away. Sometimes it happens of course, temporarily. But anandāmbudhi. The spiritual ocean is so nice that it increased, and the enjoyer of that ānanda, he also increases. Bṛhaṇatyāt. Brahmā life is that bṛhatya-bṛhaṇatyāt. It is the greatest; *still, it has the potency of expanding more and more. It is very inconceivable. If something is the greatest, superlative, then what is beyond superlative? Still, there is beyond superlative. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is so nice, transcendental literature that anywhere you sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, as the Gosvāmīs used to do it... Nāma-gana-naṭibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. They were passing their time chanting, dancing, and reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, writing on it. So far the bodily necessities are concerned, they were not very important things for them. They forgot. Spiritual life is so nice.

*So fortunately, one of our students, he has taken a very large tract of land in West Virginia to develop a society like that, that simple life, eat simple things, grains, vegetables, fruits, milk, and save your time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't be implicated in the ugra*-karma. Modern civilization is implicated in ugra-karma-vast machinery, everything complicated. The government complicated, the society complicated, economics rule complicated, foreign exchange complicated. Everything has become complicated. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung very nice song. Satsaṅga chāri kainu asatye vilās, ei kāraṇe lāgila more karma bandha-phāṅsa. Because we have given up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, therefore we have been entangled in the different varieties of material activities. Now we have to simplify it. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to simplify, to save the valuable life, to save the time of valuable life. This human form of life is very valuable. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births we have got this important life. So we have to save our time to utilize it for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should... So far we have got this material body, we want to maintain it. The body and souls live together. That is all right. For that, Kṛṣṇa has given every chance. Anywhere you sit down, you have got land and cow. You produce something and cow's milk. That is sufficient for maintenance. So let us try to make an attempt to organize a New Vrindaban scheme, and I shall request all my students to develop this idea and show a good example to this Western part of the world where people are always engaged in ugra-karma, asuric-karma. Things are becoming very implicated, complicated.

Thank you very much. Any question?

Young man: [break] ...defending for us?



Prabhupāda: He's always defending, but you should not be idle. It does not mean "Because God is defending, therefore we shall stop our work." No. Yudhyasva mām anusmara [Bg. 8.7]. Kṛṣṇa advises Arjuna that "You have to fight, but at the same time think of Me, Kṛṣṇa conscious." You have to fight. Just other people are fighting with all circumstances, we have to fight also, but we must have faith that Kṛṣṇa will save. Not that "We depend on Kṛṣṇa. Because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa will do the act. Let me sleep." No. Karmāṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. You have to act according to the rules, and so far the result is concerned, leave it to Kṛṣṇa.



Nanda Kiśora: If the spiritual master gives you any instruction, should we look upon that as the same as life?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Nanda Kiśora: It wouldn't be... How would we know if it's māyā or not?



Prabhupāda: Ask your spiritual master. He will answer you. Why you in māyā while your spiritual master is physically present? You can ask, if there is any question, you can ask. [break] ...yourself in doubt. Everything should be cleared.



Gargamuni: You said we're not supposed to tolerate any blaspheming of the Lord, not of His name or in any way. How are we supposed to not tolerate that? It happens where I work people are sometimes blaspheming His name as a matter of course. How do you not tolerate? How do you...?



Prabhupāda: The demons will always do that. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is that?



Pradyumna: ...for Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You remember Kṛṣṇa. That's all. The rule is that when there is blasphemy, there are three kinds of activities. First thing is that one who is blaspheming, you should argue and defeat him by your arguments, by your evidences. If you are unable to do that, then you should die. That is the injunction. And if you are unable to do that, then you should go away from that place. That's all. Three things. First of all, you should fight with him. Then if you are unable to fight, then you should die. And if you are not able to die, then leave that place and go away. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes?



Jayapatākā: Can you explain Śrī Rādhā's appearance day?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Tomorrow. (Hindi) (end)





760221SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.14

-

Māyāpur, February 21, 1976



Prabhupāda: Ānanda. What you have written? Nirvṛti means pleasure.



Dayānanda: What is it?



Prabhupāda: Ānanda, pleasure. They are taking pleasure.



Dayānanda: Pleasure.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Dayānanda: Nirvṛtim... [break] translation: "My Lordship Nṛsiṁhadeva, who can, therefore, stop Your anger? Now my father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, the great demon, being killed, as the saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of the scorpion and the snake..."



Prabhupāda: What is the beginning? Tad yaccha? Hm? Tad yaccha. "Give up that anger." What you have written?



Dayānanda: It says, "Who can, therefore, stop Your anger?"



Prabhupāda: No, no. "Please, therefore, give up Your anger."



Hṛdayānanda: "Please, therefore, give up your anger."



Dayānanda: Oh. "Please, therefore, stop your anger. Now my father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, the great demon, being killed, as the saintly persons who take pleasure in the killing of the scorpion and the snake, similarly, all the saintly persons have achieved great satisfaction on account of the demon's death. Now they are confident of their happiness. They shall always remember about Your auspicious incarnation."



Prabhupāda: "Of Nṛsiṁhadeva."



tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya

*modeta sādhur api vṛścika*-sarpa-hatyā

lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyanti sarve

rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti

[SB 7.9.14]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is requesting Nṛsiṁhadeva, "Now the business is finished. My father, the great demon, Hiraṇyakaśipu..." He said, asuraś ca hatas. He... Such a great Vaiṣṇava, he is not calling Hiraṇyakaśipu his father. And in other place also he addressed his father, na sādhu manye asura*-varya. He never said, "My father." He said, "The greatest of the asuras." He was so bold. The father was such a great demon, and he was not addressing him as father, and the father was becoming more and more angry upon him. This indicates that a person who is a demon, not devotee, he's not worth calling a father. That sort of father should be avoided. Pitā na sa syāt. People are affectionate to father and mother, and they hesitate how to give up... Especially boys give up the company of family, father and mother, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But here, in the śāstra, it is said, if the father is demon or a mother is demon or a friend is demon or a family member is demon, they should not be accepted as relative. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syād gurur na sa syāt. Even guru. If you have accepted somebody as guru but he's a demon, he should be rejected immediately, immediately. Just like in India there is a system of jāta-guru, the guru by caste. By familywise, they become guru. One family is attached to another guru family by hereditary rules, the sons after sons accepting guru, the other party, and there is regular business. So such kind of guru is not wanted.



*Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī has recommended that laukika*-guru... This is laukika-guru. Parityāgena adhyātmika paramārthika, guru accepted. Guru has to be accepted who is actually paramārthika, advanced in spiritual knowledge, not the formality. That is recommended by Jīva Gosvāmī. Parityāgena. Parityāga vidhīyate. Śāstra says, "If the guru does not know the right thing, he can be given up." So what is the right thing? Right thing is to become devotee. First of all the sastric injunction is that anyone who is not a devotee, he cannot become guru. He cannot become guru. Avaiṣṇava, he cannot become guru. He must be a Vaiṣṇava. Then he... Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. A brāhmaṇa, born in a brāhmaṇa family, not brāhmaṇa but in a brāhmaṇa family, or even brāhmaṇa, because qualified, ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇaḥ... Brāhmaṇa has six kinds of livelihood, sat-karma. Paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna-pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa, well qualified, he must be a very learned scholar, paṭhana. And he must be able to make his disciple also very learned. Paṭhana pāṭhana. He must worship the Deity, yajana yājana. And he should worship for others also, yajana yājana. Dāna-pratigraha: he should accept charity from disciples and others, and again distribute it. Dāna-pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa is supposed to be..., always remain a beggar. Even if he gets lakhs and lakhs of rupees, he spends it for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the sign of brāhmaṇa. So even such brāhmaṇa, if he's not Vaiṣṇava, then he cannot become a guru. Avaiṣṇava.

*ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇa-vipro

*mantra*-tantra-viśāradaḥ

avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt...



*And sad*-vaiṣṇava śvapaco guruḥ. If a person is born in the low-grade family and has become a Vaiṣṇava, he becomes guru. This is śāstric injunction, and that is the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "You become a guru." He does not say, "Because you are brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya, you become guru. No. "Every one of you, become a guru." How? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] You simply learn the science of Kṛṣṇa and teach it; then you become guru.



*So because this Hiraṇyakaśipu was not a Vaiṣṇava, so Prahlāda Mahārāja declined to call him, address him, as father. No. This is pitā na syāt... "He is not my father." So he is addressing that tad yaccha manyum: "Now my Lord, Nṛsiṁhadeva, You have not cause to become angry, because the person upon whom You are so angry, that asura, my father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, is now killed. So business is finished." So the question may be that... Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva may ask that "I have killed your father, so your relative may be unhappy? Therefore I'm angry. Why they are angry upon...? They're unhappy. I have killed a demon." So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "No, no, no. That is not the case. Nobody is unhappy. Nobody is unhappy. By killing my father Hiraṇyakaśipu, I am not unhappy and nobody is unhappy." Tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayā dayā: "By You, by Your grace..." "So if you are not happy, why?" Now, modeta sādhur api vṛścika*-sarpa-hatyā: "Why they should be unhappy? Because the sādhu, a saintly person does not like that anyone should be killed, even an ant." That is sādhu. A sādhu does not want to kill even an ant. But in the case of vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā, they are happy. They are happy. Vṛścika, scorpion, and sarpa...

*So long, long ago, sometimes in the year 1933 in this Caitanya Math, there was a big snake came out in my front. I was taking bath. So everyone was looking what to do. So Guru Mahārāja was on the upstair. He immediately ordered, "Kill him." So it was killed. So at that time, 1933, I was newcomer. So I thought, "How that? Guru Mahārāja ordered this snake to be killed?" I was little surprised. But later on, when I saw this verse, I was very glad. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā [SB 7.9.14]. It remained a doubt, "How Guru Mahārāja ordered a snake to be killed?" But when I read this verse I was very much pleased, that these creatures, or creatures like the snake, they should not be shown any mercy. No. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said there are two kinds of cruel creatures. One kind is a sarpaḥ krūraḥ. The snake is very cruel. Sarpaḥ krūraḥ, khalaḥ krūraḥ. And khala, a person who has awakened the quality like snake... Then there is no fault. Why a snake is called so cruel? Because unnecessarily they bite. If somebody commits some offense unto you, if you bite me, that is reasonable. But I have no fault, but you are biting me. The vṛścika, scorpion, and snake, they do that, without any offense. A man is passing, an animal is passing-unnecessarily it bites, without offense. A man is sleeping*-it bites. Therefore they are very dangerous. Similarly, there are men also like the snake-without any fault, they bite, without any fault. If I do something faulty, you can punish me, bite. But without any fault, if you bite me... So therefore Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, sarpaḥ krūraḥ-khalaḥ krūraḥ sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ. Such person is called khala, envious, jealous.

*So there are two living creatures. One is snake, and one is jealous or envious person. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ: "This man, envious man, is more dangerous than the snake. Than the snake." Why? He's a human being. Yes, because he's human being and he has got developed consciousness and he has practiced to use the developed consciousness for becoming jealous, He's more dangerous than the snake. So therefore he concludes, mantrauśādhi-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ khalaḥ kena nivāryate. The snake, although by nature he is so..., still, he can be controlled by mantra and some herbs. In India they still do that. But this khalaḥ, the person jealous, he cannot be pacified any means. Therefore he's more dangerous than the snake. A person who has become jealous and envious, he cannot be controlled either by mantra or by bribe or this or that. No. Sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My Lord, nobody is unhappy, even the saintly person. Saintly person, we common man, we may be unhappy-'Oh, my father is killed'*-or my mother may be unhappy that 'My husband is killed.' But be sure, my father was a khalaḥ. Unnecessarily he was envious of Your Lordship, so he was more dangerous than the snake and the scorpion. Therefore by killing him You have satisfied everyone, even one is saintly person. So there is no question of becoming angry still. By this action everyone is happy, so don't consider any other. You become now pacified." Tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā [SB 7.9.14].

*"But still may be others, unhappy, may not be your family, because you were also tortured, but others that are killed, such a demon, big, powerful..." So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, lokāś ca nirvṛtim itaḥ: "Everyone is satisfied, even the higher planets, the demigods and everyone." Nirvṛtim itaḥ pratiyanti: "They are waiting only just to see You pacified." Sarve rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha. "But is not this form very fearful to anyone? You may not be afraid of, others?" Prahlāda Mahārāja assures, "No, no. Nobody is fearful. This fearful appearance of Your Lordship is very pleasing to the devotees because as soon as they are in fearful condition, they will remember Your this Nṛsiṁha form and they will be out of that. It is so pleasing." Just like we..., ito nṛsiṁha, tato nṛsiṁha yato yato yāmi... So our only shelter is Nṛsiṁhadeva. This world is very, very dangerous. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam [SB 10.14.58]. In very step there is danger. Every step there is envious creatures. You cannot live here peacefully. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Kṛṣṇa says. It is a place simply for suffering, and that also not permanent. You cannot make any comprise that "All right, it is suffering. That's all right. Still, I shall stay here." No, that is also not possible. Aśāśvatam. You have to die. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You cannot solve these problems, miserable condition. Ultimately you have to die.

*So people do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍhas. They are simply making arrangement how to become happy. It is not possible to become happy here. That's a fact. But still they are. Therefore they are called mūḍhas, rascals. Which will never be possible, and they are trying for that. You see, whole world is trying to be happy. They are discovering so many technological arts, but they are dying. They cannot. They have invented horseless carriage, having very, I mean to say, speedy carriages, but there are so many dangers. Every moment the life can go, the motor accident. It is happening in the Western country. So whatever you do for the advancement of material civilization, you are one side increasing more danger. If you did not discover these aeroplane and motorcar, then death would not have been so easier. You could live at least for some days. But because you have discovered some facilities, your death is also very become near. So this is prakṛti. You are trying to solve the problem in one way, and the problem is becoming more dangerous and difficult by the laws of nature. That these rascals cannot find even. They continually working. There is a verse in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, paśyann api na paśyati. They are so big rascals that paśyann api na paśyati: even they are seeing every moment that "All our endeavors are being baffled," still, they'll try for it. They'll try for it, again and again. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. These things are... Punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, chewing the chewed, this is their business. Therefore they are called mūḍhas. The mūḍhas, they do not find that "All our attempt..."

*Therefore the śāstra advises, "You simply make one attempt, how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise you are not..." Only one thing. That chance you cannot get in other form of life, that a cat, dog, you do not get this. And what is that? Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. By the laws of nature you are getting different types of body in different planets, in different situation and so on, so on, eight million, four hun... You are loitering in this way, but you could not get Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now here is the chance, human form of life, and the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there. Take it seriously. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. If you are actually intelligent*-kovido means very intelligent-then you take. You must. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura: "Anyone who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's first-class intelligent person." All other: fools, rascals. You can call them. There is no harm. They are actually fools and rascal, who has not taken. And it is not our manufactured word. Kṛṣṇa said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Anyone who is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is rascal, he's sinful, he's lowest of the mankind, he has no knowledge, he's gone to hell. This is our conclusion. Sometimes they come to fight us tlat "Sir, you said such a great man, 'rascal.' " But we must say, "Yes, he is a rascal. Where is his greatness?" Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot be a great man. This is our conclusion. There is no question. Immediately, as soon as you see he's against Kṛṣṇa, or he does not know Kṛṣṇa, then he's a rascal, That's all.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛtajñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam...

[Bg. 7.15]



So this Hiraṇyakaśipu was a great rascal. So he is killed. Everybody is happy. So this is the position. Prahlāda Mahārāja is requesting Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, "Now everyone is happy, so kindly be peaceful."



Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. (end)



760222SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.15

-

Māyāpur, February 22, 1976



*Dayānanda: "My Lord who is never conquered by anyone, certainly I am not at all afraid of Your very ferocious mouth, tongue, bright eyes like the sunshine, movement of Your eyebrows, very pinching sharp set of teeth, garland of intestines, hands soaked with blood, fixed*-up-high ears, Your tumultuous sound which causes the elephants to go away to a distant place, and Your nails which are meant for killing Your enemies. Undoubtedly I am not afraid of them."



Devotee: (Sanskrit and Bengali)



Prabhupāda: (Bengali), "movement." Yes.



nāhaṁ bibhemy ajita te 'tibhayānakāsya-

*jihvārka*-netra-bhrukuṭī-rabhasogra-daṁṣṭrāt

*āntra*-srajaḥ-kṣataja-keśara-śaṅku-karṇān

*nihrāda*-bhīta-digibhād ari-bhin-nakhāgrāt

[SB 7.9.15]



*So, nārāyaṇa*-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. This is the sign or pure devotee. Others, they are afraid of the fierceful appearance of Narasiṁhadeva, but Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "I am not afraid." He was a child of five years old. So, others were very, very afraid, even could not approach the Lord to pacify Him, and Prahlāda Mahārāja was not afraid.



*So there is a description of different features of the body of Nṛsiṁhadeva, description of the face, the ear, the mane and the nails, everything, very, very fearful. But the nails, the significant word is here*-ari-bhit nakhāgrāt. Ari-bhit. Ari means enemy, and these nails are meant for piercing the chest of the enemy, not of the devotee. Ari-bhit nakhāgrāt. Everything is fierceful to the enemy, to the demons, but to the devotees they're all beautiful. They are pleasing. That is the difference between the Personality of Godhead and material personality. Everything... God is all-good. Even God appears in such fierceful attitude, it is beautiful to the devotees. God's stealing... This is abominable, stealing, in this material world. But in the spiritual world, that stealing by Kṛṣṇa is worshipable. Makhana-chora, butter thief. The devotees like that "Kṛṣṇa should come to my house and steal my things, butter." That is the pastime of Vṛndāvana-līlā. Kṛṣṇa would go to every house and steal butter, and they would be very much pleased that "Kṛṣṇa has come to steal here." They would come, a formally complaint lodged before Yaśodāmayī, and Kṛṣṇa would be afraid. But these things are very, very enjoyable. Kṛṣṇa is being chastised by Yaśodāmayī, and still, he's thinking, she's thinking, "Whether Kṛṣṇa has become very much afraid?" This is called Vṛndāvana-līlā. The love for Kṛṣṇa is so strong that whatever Kṛṣṇa does, that is beautiful. And the spiritual world, what is condemnable in this material world, that is very worshipable in the spiritual world. Spiritual world, the love is parakīya-rasa. Parakīya-rasa. Here in this material world, if you create some relationship with other's wife, that is very condemnable. But in the spiritual world the loving affairs between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa is the same, is like that. Kṛṣṇa is making loving affairs with other's wife. So therefore sometimes, without understanding Kṛṣṇa, if one tries to understand the loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa with gopīs, they misunderstand. They think that "Kṛṣṇa is woman-hunter, and Kṛṣṇa is making love with other's wife and daughter." They do not know.

*So here the fierceful attitude, very, very fierceful, that is very pleasing to Prahlāda Mahārāja. He said, nāhaṁ bibhemy ajita te 'tibhayānakāsya: "Your face is very fearful to the enemies, but it is very beautiful to me." Everything. Nāhaṁ bibhemy ajita te 'tibhayānakāsya jihvā. Everything fierceful... In the next verse Prahlāda Mahārāja will say that "This fierceful attitude of Your Lordship is not at all fearful to me, as it is fearful to me, this material existence." That he will explain, next verse. Trasto 'smy ahaṁ kṛpaṇa*-vatsala duḥsahogra-saṁsāra-cakra-kadanād grasatāṁ praṇītaḥ. This material world is very, very fierceful to the devotees. They are very, very much afraid of. This is the difference. Materialistic persons, they are thinking, "This world is very pleasing. We are enjoying. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." But the devotees, they think, "It is very, very fierceful. How soon we shall get out of it?" My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "This material world is not fit for living for any gentleman." He used to say. "No gentleman can live here." So these things are not understood by the nondevotees, how much pinching this material world is. Duḥkhāla... Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. That is the difference between the devotee and nondevotee. The duḥkhālayam, they are trying to adjust how to make it sukhālayam. That is not possible.

*So unless one becomes detestful of this material world, it is to be understood that he has not yet entered in the spiritual understanding. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. This is the test of bhakti. If one has entered the domain of devotional service, this material world will be not at all tasteful for him. Virakti. No more. Āra nāre bapa (?). The Jagāi*-Mādhāi, too much materialistic, woman-hunters, drunkard, meat-eater... So these things have become now common affairs. But it is very, very fearful for the devotees. Therefore we say, "No intoxication; no illicit sex; *no meat*-eating." It is very very fearful. But they do not know. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti. They do not know it. They indulge in. The whole world is going on on this platform. He does not know that he is creating a very, very fierceful situation by indulging in these sinful activities.

So to get out of these habits, it requires tapasā, tapasya.

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena damena vā

tyāgena śauca...

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*This is called advancement of spiritual life. Tapasā. The first thing is tapasya, voluntarily rejecting this so*-called comfortable situation of material world. That is called tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. And to execute that tapasya, the first thing is brahmacarya. Brahmacarya means to avoid sex indulgence. That is called brahmacarya.



tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena damena vā

tyāgena śauca śaucabhyāṁ

śamena damena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*These are the... Therefore you'll find, all transcendentalists, they are practicing tapasya very, very severely. That is required. The human life is meant for tapasya. That is human life. Human life is not meant for living like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. To live like cats and dog is not meant for the human life. Human life is meant for tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1]. We have to execute tapasya, austerity. Why? Now, to purify our existence. This present existence is not purified; therefore we have to meet death. Otherwise we are eternal. "Why should we meet death?" This question does not arise at all. The modern civilization, they do not care for death. This is another daring. Death... They never question that "We are eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. "Why I shall meet death?" But this question does not arise for... They think, "Death? We can finish everything." This is called mūḍha. They do not know things are there, what it should be. They do not know that.



*So in order to know all this transcendental subject matter, it is recommended, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "One must approach to the proper guru to understand this subject matter." And that is success of human life. Otherwise, to live like cats and dogs-sa eva go-kharaḥ: [SB 10.84.13] cows and asses, animal life*-this is not civilization. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt, however small it may be, to bring back the human society to real civilization. It is not ordinary movement. They are not civilized. Mūḍha. This is a civilization of rascals and fools. But to bring them back to knowledge, that is civilization. That civilization is spiritual life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for spiritual life, not for material life like cats and dogs. This is not required. This is Vedānta philosophy, athāto brahma jijñāsā. One must try to learn what is the ultimate source of everything, not that theorizing or, what is called, imagining something. Take knowledge from the right source, brahma-vidyā, the Vedic knowledge, and try to understand the situation, what is Brahman, what you are. We are also Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. These things are to be known. And when we neglect to understand these things, that means we are going to the wrong way of life. The wrong way of life can be allowed up to the animal life. Out of 8,400,000 forms of life, the animal life, three million types of animal life, by evolutionary process we come to the human life. Now we should inquire about spiritual life. That is civilization. Without spiritual life, without inquiring the spiritual life, it is animal life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. So try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And spiritual life means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa comes to explain Himself. And hear from Him and understand Him as He says. Then, as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, your life is successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Kṛṣṇa, or God, is very difficult to understand.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yayati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



To understand God, to understand Kṛṣṇa, is not very easy job; *very, very difficult job. Therefore we don't find anyone is interested in Kṛṣṇa. Anywhere you go, all over the world, you make a statistic: nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa. Is it not a fact? Out of millions. Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, "Out of millions..." That's a fact. Nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu. So therefore, to understand Kṛṣṇa is not very easy job. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa You can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. That is Kṛṣṇa, great. You take. And again Kṛṣṇa is coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to show us the way how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu means Kṛṣṇa Himself, present to teach us how to understand Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind: He is coming Himself. He's teaching Bhagavad*-gītā. Again He is coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as devotee, to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. He's not only teaching Kṛṣṇa but love of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when He personally came, He did not teach how to love Him. He simply asked, "You rascal, surrender to Me." That's all. "You are all rascals. You have forgotten Me. I am the Supreme. You are searching after so many wrong things. You have created so many so-called occupational and religious duties, but these are all useless." That much. But again Kṛṣṇa came to teach people how to love Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī offers his respect to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, namo mahā-vadanyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "You are not only giving Kṛṣṇa but giving love of Kṛṣṇa." That is very rare thing. Prema pumārtho mahān. People are after dharma, after kāma, mokṣa, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, above this, there is fifth perfection. That is prema, Kṛṣṇa-prema." Prema pumārtho mahān.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the topmost education, culture. Those who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they should seriously take it and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Their life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760223SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.16

-

Māyāpur, February 23, 1976



Dayānanda: Grasatām: "overpowered by other conditioned souls."



Prabhupāda: "Power"? "Other conditioned"? Grasatām? Grasatām means "taken over." Is it not?



Devotee: Grasatām: "taken."



Prabhupāda: "Taken over." There is some word. Praṇītaḥ. [break]



Dayānanda: "O my Lordship, You are so kind upon the fallen souls. O the most powerful, insurmountable by anyone else, on account of my resultant action of activities, I have been put into the association of asuras, and therefore I am very much afraid of my condition of life within this material world. Of course, if You become very pleased upon me, I am waiting for that moment when You will call me to take shelter under Your lotus feet, which is the ultimate goal of life for being liberated from this conditional life."



Prabhupāda:



*trasto 'smy ahaṁ kṛpaṇa*-vatsala duḥsahogra-

*saṁsāra*-cakra-kadanād grasatāṁ praṇītaḥ

*baddhaḥ sva*-karmabhir uśattama te 'ṅghri-mūlaṁ

prīto 'pavarga-śaraṇaṁ hvayase kadā nu

[SB 7.9.16]



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja was not afraid of the fierceful features of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva. He was not fearful. But question may be asked, "You are not afraid of anything? You are seeing so fierceful appearance, nṛsiṁha*-mūrti. Everyone is afraid. And even Lord Brahmā; Lord Śiva; goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī; *and other demigods*-everyone is afraid of, but you say that 'I am not afraid of Your, this horrible feature.' " Nāhaṁ bibhemy. This verse we have discussed, "I am not afraid."



*So the question may be that "If you are not afraid of this fearful appearance of Me, then that means you are not afraid of anything?" The answer is, "Yes, I am afraid. Yes, I am afraid." What is that? (sic:) Trasto 'ham ahaṁ kṛpaṇa*-vatsala duḥsahogra-saṁsāra-cakra-kadanād: "I am afraid of this material existence, not this, Your fearful..." This fearful appearance is fearful for the asuras, duṣkṛtina. When Kṛṣṇa comes, He has got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. So those who are duṣkṛtām or duṣkṛtināḥ... These words are used in the Bhagavad-gītā: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante [Bg. 7.15]. So anyone who is in this material world, he is a duṣkṛti. Kṛti means very meritorious. Kṛti yasya sa jīvati. Meritorious, kṛti. But duṣkṛti. Here in this material world there are many, many persons, very meritorious, big, big philosophers, scientists, politicians, very meritorious. But their merit is being used for sinful activities. Just like a thief. He has got merit, but his merit is being used for stealing. So that is called duṣkṛti. And sukṛtina, just the opposite is sukṛtina. Sukṛti means one is acting or utilizing his merit for sukṛti. Sukṛti means the way by which one can approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti. This temple means to give chance to the people in general, ajñāta-sukṛti. Anyone who will come to this temple where the Deity is there, and even by imitating others, if one offers obeisances to the Lord, that is taken into account. That is not useless, because Kṛṣṇa says, mad-yājinaḥ. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is Kṛṣṇa's desire. He gives the four principles, that "Always think of Me," man-manā, "and become My devotee," mad-bhakta, mad-yājī, "worship Me," and mad-yājino Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Just offer little obeisances. These four principles will deliver you from this bondage of material existence and," mām evaiśyasi asaṁśaya, "without any doubt, you'll come back to Me." So, so simple thing. It is not at all difficult. This child, he can do this. Old man can do this. Learned man can do this, without any knowledge. Even an animal can do it. Very simple. Bhakti-yoga is very simple. Therefore, somehow or other, if somebody comes into the temple, and even by imitating one offers obeisances... We have seen so many people. Our devotees are offering obeisances. They also think that "It is the etiquette. Let me do that," by association. Therefore it is recommended, sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Sādhu-saṅga. Simply by association, one can be delivered. Saṁsāra-cakra-kadanāt. It is so nice thing.

*Unfortunately they'll not associate with sādhu. Sat*-saṅga chāḍi' kainu asate vilāsa, te-kāraṇa lāgila mora karma-bandha-phāṅsa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings that "I have given up sādhu-saṅga." Sat-saṅga, sādhu-saṅga. Satāṁ-prasaṅgāt mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. If you discuss message of Kṛṣṇa amongst the sādhus, satāṁ prasaṅgāt, then it becomes very palatable. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. Not professional or asādhu. Asādhu is condemned. Sanātana Gosvāmī has strictly forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ-hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. He has strictly forbidden. Those who are not Vaiṣṇavas, professional, for money's sake they recite Bhāgavata, any, anything. They want money. Sometimes they may recite Bhāgavatam. Sometimes they flatter you. Sometimes they read other book also. They want money. Such kind of association will not help you. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. That is the same thing, Narottama dāsa, sat-saṅga chāḍi' kainu asate vilāsa, te kāraṇe lāgila mora karma-bandha-phāṅsa. This karma-bandha-phāṅsa, the Sanskrit is saṁsāra-cakra-kadanā. The Bengali is karma-bandha-phāṅsa, entanglement in work and resultant action of That is going on. The saṁsāra-cakra means one after another. This life is going on, and we are creating the resultant action of our karma, and according to the process, we get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. You have to accept another body by the laws of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. As you associate, so you get your next body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: "You'll get another body." He doesn't say that "You will get this body after..." Just like this Darwin's theory. They say, "After this body, this body. After this body, this body." That is when the evolution takes place in the lower species of life, nature's law. But when you come to the human form of life you have got your responsibility. Wherever you want, you can go.

*That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Now you select where you want to go. If you want to go to the higher planetary system, you can go. Then take shelter of the demigods. Worship Indra, Candra, Varuṇa. They are trying to go to the moon planet, but one cannot go there unless he's qualified to go there. Deva*-vratān. There is prescription how you can go to the Candraloka. In karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, fruitive activities, if one executes fruitive activities very nicely, he's promoted to the Candraloka. He gets there life for ten thousands of years, and he's given opportunity of drinking soma-rasa. So this is saṁsāra-cakra, not that if you go to the higher planetary system you become happy. No. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa says,



*ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān

punar āvartino 'rjuna

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāmaṁ paramam



*Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, from down, Pātāla, up to Brahmaloka... You can go there if you want. Kṛṣṇa is very, very kind. He has given you chance because you wanted to come here and enjoy material world. Kṛṣṇa says, "All right, go." So beginning from Brahmā down to the insignificant worm in the stool, they are coming down and going up, coming down. This is going on. This is called saṁsāra*-cakra, cycle of birth and death. That is going on perpetually. And they do not know what to do. You have to die. You get one form of life, enjoy it, either as human being or as hog, pig, cat, dog, or demigod. Whatever you wanted, you have got it, desire. Now enjoy. But after some time you have to die. But actually your position is not to die. You are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Destruction of this body does not mean your destruction. This is saṁsāra-cakra. I am getting different opportunities, different bodies, to fulfill my material desires. This is going on. This is called saṁsāra-cakra-kadanāt. Prahlāda Mahārāja, a devotee, is afraid, very, very afraid. He is not afraid of the lion or the elephant or the tiger or the snake. No. He's not afraid of these. But he's afraid of this repetition of birth and death. That is called saṁsāra-cakra. Is it not botheration? Any sane man will understand how much botheration it is. Just like I am now old man. There are so many inconveniences. And in this way every old man will die, and if he's fortunate enough, if he has done something, he may be promoted to the higher planetary system, or if he has tried for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he may go back to home, back to Godhead. So why one should bother here in this material world, changing body, one after another? This is called saṁsāra-cakra-kada...



*So the ordinary person, they cannot understand what is the difficulty. As soon as I die I enter into the womb of a mother according to my karma. The mother may be a lady dog or lady pig or lady such and such, because the body will be manufactured within the womb of the mother. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantor dehopapatti [SB 3.31.1]. Upapatti means getting one type of body. So that type of body is given by the mother, and the seed is given by the father. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. So we take a form. This is going on. So a devotee should be very very much afraid of this repetition of birth and death. Saṁsāra... This is Prahlāda Mahārāja... To follow the footprints of Prahlāda Mahārāja, one should be very, very afraid. And the whole process of Vedic civlization, especially devotional service, is how to avoid this saṁsāra-cakra-kadanā. Everyone should be very, very afraid of. Foolish persons... "Where angels dare not, the fools rush in." They think, "What is that? I shall die." Now it has come to the stage that in your Western countries, if we say like this, that "Next life you may become a dog," university student, they say, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" They are not afraid. They think, "If I become a dog, then I'll be free to have sex on the street without any restriction. This is the facility. Because being a human, I have got so much restriction, and if I become a dog, then there will be no restriction. I'll have... I'll be very free to have sex anywhere." So this is the education. In Hawaii, when I was lecturing, one student said, "No, what is the wrong, Swamijī, if I become a dog?" You see? Bah!

*So people have fallen so much. But we should not be like that. Those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Of course, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is never afraid of any species of life*-provided there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness continuing. That's all. That is wanted. We are not afraid of becoming a dog, provided I can remember Kṛṣṇa. This is our position. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, kīṭa janmāobi, icchā yadi tora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, "I don't mind if I am born as a kita, or an insect, but kindly give me the chance that I become an insect in the house of a devotee. Then I'll get chance again. Because a devotee will eat. I'll be able to take a little grain left by the devotee. That is my satisfaction." So a Vaiṣṇava is not afraid of to becoming in the form of any species of life, provided he simply... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prayer, mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. A devotee does not aspire of being born in a very rich family or getting very nice wife and many controlling power, much controlling power. They do not want. Mama janmani... Neither a devotee wants (to) stop birth and death, because he has no desire. That is called akāmī. A devotee has no desire to fulfill. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaj says,

*bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kami sakali 'aśānta'

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva 'śānta'

[Cc. Madhya 19.149]



*Niṣkāma, no desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]*-this is devotee, no desire. "As You..." As Kṛṣṇa likes. Simply how to take charge of serving the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.



Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, prīto 'pavarga-śaraṇaṁ hvayase kadā nu: "My Lord, You are apavarga-śaraṇaṁ." This is very important word, apavarga. Pavarga and apavarga. Pa means just the opposite, and pavarga, here in this material world, we are in the pavarga. Pa means pariśrama, laboring. Here you cannot get food without any labor. Just see. These laborers here, they have come. Whole day they are working. But if I say that "Why you are working so hard? Come here, live here, take little prasādam, and make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness," nobody will come. Nobody will come. "No, no. I am very happy here." This is pa, pariśrama. They... Sometimes we are accused that we're escaping labor, we are parasites, we are dependent on the society. We are not dependent on the society; *we are dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Kṛṣṇa is supplying us this nice building, nice food, nice opportunity. Not only one*-we have got hundreds of buildings like that, without any labor. We are not working like these laborers. Just see. I went to your country with forty rupees, and now I have got forty crores of worth, property. So I did not work like them. (laughs) Yes. The people are bringing money. Kṛṣṇa is sending money, daily one to five lakhs of rupees. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why one should work? Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujām, the stool-eaters, they will work hard. Human life is not meant for Take Kṛṣṇa's shelter. Kṛṣṇa will supply everything. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy.

*So this pa means working hard, pariśrama. And pha means foam, phenam. If you work very hard... You have seen sometimes the horse. They are having foams in the mouth. So we have to work so hard in this material world that sometimes foam comes. Yes. We become thirsty. We require some drinking because the tongue becomes dry, the lips become dry, and sometimes, the pa, pha... And ba-still, we are disappointed, vyarthata. And bha*-we are always fearful, bhaya. And ma-after this, mṛtyu, death. After so working hard, after always being fearful, being baffled and so on, so on, still, you cannot live here; *you must die. This is called pavarga. In Sanskrit grammar, there are vargas: ka*-varga, ca-varga, ta-varga, pa-varga. So pa-varga means pa, pha, ba, bha, ma. So material life means these five kinds of difficulties; *at last*-death. Ma means mṛtyu. But if you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, then you are saved. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is described as apavarga-śaraṇaṁ. If one wants to nullify this pavarga, then he must take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva... Because we are working hard why? According to our sinful activities, we are put into the situation, working very hard. Without working, we cannot get our food. So Kṛṣṇa is apavarga-śaraṇaṁ. If you want apavarga, if you want to nullify these five kinds of pa, pha, ba, bha, ma, then you must take shelter of Kṛṣṇa.

*So Kṛṣṇa is always kind, but when He sees that you are very eager to go to Kṛṣṇa, He calls. He calls. Just like He explained to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, because you are My very dear friend," sarva*-guhyatamam, "I am just disclosing the most confidential part of knowledge." Sarva-dharmān parityajya māṁ ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "This is the most confidential part of knowledge. Don't be entangled with this pavarga. Take shelter of Me." So this is calling Arjuna. So Prahlāda Mahārāja expecting, "When the Lord will call me?" That is real mercy. You cannot call God, or Kṛṣṇa, "Please come to me and save me." Kṛṣṇa is not your servant; He does not agree to be your servant. But when He's pleased, He says, He calls you, "Please come and surrender unto Me." Therefore we must expect, "When the master will call me?" Don't try to see God, but act in such a way that God will call you, "Please come here." That is wanted. That is bhakti, not that "O God, please come. I will see you." Why God will come to see you? He is very busy. What you have done that you want to see God? If you say, "O Indira Gandhi, please come here. I'll see you," she will come? Be qualified, and she will see you. Similarly, don't try... This is not bhakti. Nacia nacia aire gopāla.(?) No. Gopāla is not anyone's servant that He'll come dancing and dancing. You be qualified, and He'll see you. He'll call you, "Yes, come back. Come back home, back to home, back to Godhead." Be qualified. (aside:) Why you are standing? Stand. Yes.

*So this is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Everyone should be anxious how Kṛṣṇa will call him back to home, back to Godhead. And that is done, that is possible, when you are engaged in service. Otherwise it is not po... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. You cannot ask God to come and He will see you. No. When you are sevonmukha, fully in service, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau... That service begins from jihvā, from the tongue. Tā'ra madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, tā'ke jetā koṭhina saṁsāre. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, "It is very, very difficult to control the tongue." Therefore the tongue should be engaged in service of the Lord, beginning from the tongue. If you can control the tongue, then you can control your belly, then you can control your genital, and then you become jitendriya. So we have to become jitendriya. Indriya means the senses. They are given to us for material enjoyment, just like the hog is also given the tongue to taste stool. Not your tongue. Your tongue is meant for tasting prasādam, not stool. Your tongue is meant for chanting, not eating stool. So you have to control this. Then there will be possibility of getting the shelter of apavarga-śaraṇaṁ. The repetition of birth and death Everyone should be afraid of the saṁsāra*-cakra-kadanāt.

*Then one may ask that... Then... Just like sometimes foolish persons, they say that "Kṛṣṇa, God, has kept me in this way. According to His desire, I am now in this position because nothing can happen without His desire." This argument they say. That is another rascaldom. So Prahlāda Mahārāja clears, therefore, that baddhaḥ sva*-karmabhiḥ: "It is not desired by You. I have created this situation." Baddhaḥ sva-karmabhiḥ. I have been put into this condition by my own work, sva-karmabhir. Baddhaḥ sva-karmabhir uśattama. You cannot overcome this resultant action of your karma. You must suffer. The same example: just like if you infect some contaminous disease, you must suffer, similarly, we are creating karma and we are suffering. Baddhaḥ sva-karmabhiḥ. My work. Śāstra does not say that you steal. Nobody says. Neither śāstra says, nor the moral codes say, nor the law, government law, say that "You can steal whatever you like." No. Everybody says... The government says, "Don't steal." The śāstra, scriptures, they also say, "Don't drink. Don't steal. Don't do this. Don't." All forbidden. But I steal. So that is sva-karmabhiḥ. There is forbidding everywhere, but still, I steal. Then whose fault it is? It is government's fault or my fault? If I kill, I'll be hanged. "Thou shall not kill." Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But if I kill, then I must suffer. But they say, give some false argument, "Lord Christ says, 'Thou shall not kill' and if I kill, Christ has taken the contract that whatever sinful activities we do, he will excuse." This is Christian document. They say that "Our Christ is so kind that whatever sinful activities we do, he will suffer for us." Is it not? This is Christian theory. Just see foolishness. "You do something, and I suffer for that." No. You have to suffer. You have done something wrong; *you must suffer. This is the real philosophy, sva*-karmabhiḥ uśattama te 'ṅghri-mūlaṁ prītaḥ apavarga-śaraṇaṁ.

*So we are very much entangled in this material world. One should be very much afraid. Prahlāda Mahārāja says... Prahlāda Mahārāja was not afraid of Nṛsiṁha*-mūrti, but he is very much afraid of this material existence. It is really very, very fearful. People do not know the seriousness of material existence, and they continue and waste their, the chance, human being. Human form of life is a chance to rectify, but they do not care. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important. Everyone, door to door, a devotee has to go and teach them that "You are leading a very, very irresponsible life. Be responsible to your consciousness and be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That will save you."

Thank you very much. (end)



760224SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.17

-

Māyāpur, February 24, 1976



Dayānanda: "O the great Supreme, in every type of body, either in the heavenly planet or in the hellish planet, there are pleasing and not pleasing circumstances on account of combination and separation. But both of them are very, very regrettable position, as if burning in the fire. Although there are many remedial measures to get out of the miserable condition of life, but in the material world any such counteraction is more miserable than the miserable condition itself. The only remedial measure, I think, therefore, is to be engaged in Your service. Kindly instruct me in that way."



Prabhupāda:



*yasmāt priya apriya*-viyoga-saṁyoga-janma-

*śokāgninā sakala*-yoniṣu dahyamānaḥ

*duḥkhauṣadhaṁ tad api duḥkham atad*-dhiyāhaṁ

*bhūman bhramāmi vada me tava dāsya*-yogam

[SB 7.9.16]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja, previous verse, he said, "I am very much afraid of this material existential condition, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Now he's describing what is the different phases of such suffering yasmāt, on account of this material existence. When we come to this material world there are connection with so many persons. Bhūtāpta*-pitṛṇām, nṛṇām. As soon as we come down from the womb of the mother, there are so many relatives, friends, bhūta-āpta, pitṛ, bhūtāpta bhūtāpta, ṛṣi, pitṛṇām nṛṇām. We become connected. But some of them are dear and some of them are not very friendly-enemies. This is the condition in the material world. Nobody can say that "I am situated in a very nice condition. Everyone is my friend. No enemy." It is not possible. That is the nature of this material world, that you come in contact with so many persons, animals, and suppose your forefathers... It is described, bhūtāpta-nṛṇām pitṛṇām. So we get connections. This is the way of nature. But not all of them are friendly. Even one is friendly today, tomorrow he can become enemy. This is the condition.



*So yasmāt priyāpriya*-viyoga-samyoga-janma. Viyoga-samyoga-janma. As soon as one child is born, he is separated from the former life, and he is connected with another new life, new body, viyoga-samyoga. Maybe the former body was very pleasing, and this body is not very pleasing, degraded. That is possible. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. It is not that you'll always get a body very pleasing. But the illusory energy is so strong, even one gets the body of a pig, he thinks, "It is very nice." This is called prakṣepātmika-śakti. Māyā has got especially two energies: āvaraṇātmika and prakṣepātmika. Generally māyā keeps us covered with illusion, and if one is little enlightened, wants to get out of the clutches of māyā, there is another potency of māyā, who is that prakṣepātmika. Suppose one thinks, "Now I shall become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This ordinary material consciousness is so disturbing. Let me become Kṛṣṇa conscious." So māyā will say, "What you will do with this? Better remain in material consciousness." This is called prakṣepātmika-śakti. Therefore sometimes some man comes in our society; after staying for days, he goes away. This is prakṣepata, thrown away. Unless he's very sincere, he cannot stay with us; *he'll be thrown away. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that these two positions-somebody is pleasing, and somebody is not pleasing*-it is going on perpetually. Not that "If I change my this body, this process will also stop." No. So long you have got this body in the material world, you'll have these two processes. Somebody will be your friend, and somebody will be your enemy. Yoga-samyoga-janma.

*So as soon as there are enemies, there is lamentation, anxiety. Śokāgninā. Such lamentation is just like fire of lamentation. Śokāgninā sakala*-yoniṣu. If you think that only the human society such things are there-somebody's enemy, somebody's friend-no. In any society, any yoni... You have seen in the even in the sparrows, the bird society, they are also fighting. You have seen it. They are also mixing very intimately, again fighting, So either you take birds... Or dogs. They are famous for fighting. So this is going on: somebody very dear, somebody inimical and fighting between them. Sakala-yoniṣu dahyamānaḥ. You cannot get escape by avoiding one society and go to the other society. That is not possible. Thus fire of disagreement, enmity and friendship, it will go on, not only here, even in the heavenly planet. In the heavenly planet there is fight between the devas and asuras. The asuras are envious of the devas, and devas are also envious of the asuras. Everywhere. Even King Indra, he has got enemies although he's very opulent. We want to go to the heavenly planet for enjoying the opulence of that atmosphere, but there is also the same thing. (aside, coughing:) Water. So you cannot avoid it, Prahlāda Mahārāja says.

*So we can try to counteract. Just like in this material world there are so many attempts to mitigate. Just like the United Nation. They have formed the United Nation formula to mitigate*-no more fighting, no more war, no more enmity. This is an attempt. Enmity is there; *otherwise why there is proposal of United Nations? Because we are disunited, therefore the counterproposal is "Let us become united." So he says, "To organize such thing is also very difficult and troublesome." "Although it is remedial measure, let us settle our misunderstanding"-it is very good proposal. But to settle up this misunderstanding is more troublesome. You have got experience. When you make some agreement with other party, he proposes something, you propose something. So although the agreement is a remedial measure, but come to the agreement is very, very difficult. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says this remedial measure, auṣadha, is still more troublesome. When there was enmity, that is troublesome. Just like when there is some disease, something-you have got a boil in your body*-it is painful, but when you take the remedial measure, surgical operation, it is still more painful, still more. You have to take anesthetic, chloroform, because it is more painful. So anywhere there is fight, there is enmity, and if you want to settle up, it is more troublesome. So duḥkhauṣadhaṁ tad api duḥkham. The remedial measure is more troublesome than the disease, than the painful condition.

*Duḥkhauṣadhaṁ tad api duḥkham atad*-dhiyāham. Atat. Atat means untruth, flickering, not... Atad-dhiyāham. We do not know what is our identification. Misunderstanding. Dehātma-buddhi. Asad-grahāt. Atat, asat, the same thing. We have accepted this body, identifying this body, on account of this. If you are on the spiritual platform, then there is no trouble, there is no misunderstanding. If we understand properly by education or knowledge that "You are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. I am also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Our real position is to serve the Lord," so if we serve that, then there is no misunderstanding. If we be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, there cannot be any misunderstanding. Otherwise, if we work on the platform of this body, material body, there must be misunderstanding. Atad-dhiyāham. Bhūman: "My Lord, the great," bhramāmi, "in this way I am wandering life after life, changing the body, changing the situation, and in different situation, different mentality, but there is no peace. There is no happiness, simply changing the body." Bhūman bhramāmi vada me tava dāsya-yogam: "In this way I am wandering throughout the whole universe. Now please engage me in Your service."

*So this is the right prayer, that unless you engage yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, you'll never get peace. This is a fact. We can discover so many plans and remedial measures, and that will not help us. Only solution is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa gives this nice advice: sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. That will cure your all disease. And this mentality comes by practical experience after many, many births, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 7.19], when one understands properly that without becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, without being servant of Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be peace or happiness. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. Kṛṣṇa says. Everything is directly said. Bhoktāram. Why we fight one another? I am thinking that "I shall enjoy this. I shall become the leader." And another party says, "No, no, I shall become the leader. I shall enjoy this." So there is fight. But if we understand that "Either you or me, we are not enjoyer; *we are servant. The enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa," then there will be something. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. We are trying to become friend of another friend. "My dear friend, I shall help you in this way. You are in trouble." So he can help, but there will be misunderstanding. Again the friend will be enemy. So there cannot be any peace. But if we all agree that Kṛṣṇa is the friend, real friend... Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Kṛṣṇa, if He's not our friend, why He's coming down on this platform where we are living in rotten condition? He's great friend, Dīna-bandhu. His name in Dīna-bandhu. Who is very, very poor in heart, He becomes very great friend, dīna-bandhu, and advises him. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. He's always friendly. Kṛṣṇa is never enemy. But still, we create enmity. We become demon with Kṛṣṇa. That is the trouble.

So it requires to become fortunate. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-lātā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*In this way we are wandering throughout the universe, because unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, unless we have taken fully shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, there is no stoppage of this repetition of birth and death, neither there is any peace or happiness. We must know this from all angles of vision and stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very rigidly. Then we shall be happy. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja requests Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva that "I have tried life after life to get peace and become happy and friendly, but I have failed. Now, Kṛṣṇa..." Prahlāda Mahārāja says, vada me tava dāsya*-yogam: "Because I am now convinced that without Your becoming servant, there is no more chance for peace and prosperity of this troublesome world."



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760225SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.18

-

Māyāpur, February 25, 1976



Dayānanda: Translation: "O my Lord Nṛsiṁha, in this way, just being engaged in Your transcendental loving service, I shall be able to associate with devotees who are liberated souls, haṁsas, and thus being completely uncontaminated by the association of three modes of material nature, it will be possible for me to chant the glories of Your Lordship, who is so dear to me. I shall chant Your glories, fully following the footprints of Lord Brahmā and his disciplic succession. In this way it will be possible without any doubt that I shall cross over the ocean of nescience."



Prabhupāda:



so 'haṁ priyasya suhṛdaḥ paradevatāyā

*līlā*-kathās tava nṛsiṁha viriñca-gītāḥ

*añjas titarmy anugṛṇan guṇa*-vipramukto

*durgāṇi te pada*-yugālaya-haṁsa-saṅgaḥ

[SB 7.9.18]



*So in this verse two words are very important. One is viriñca*-gīta. Viriñca means Lord Brahmā and the followers. Just like we, Gauḍīya-sampradāya, means we belong to the Brahma-sampradāya. Our sampradāya begins from Lord Brahmā. There are similarly other sampradāyas, just like Rudra-sampradāya, then Kumāra-sampradāya, and there is Lakṣmī-sampradāya, Rāmānuja-sampradāya. So there are four sampradāyas. Brahma-sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya, Kumāra-sampradāya and Lakṣmī-sampradāya. And if we do not take either of these sampradāyas in disciplic succession, then our attempt to advance in spiritual life will be failure. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te viphalā matāḥ. You cannot manufacture your own prayers unless you follow the footprints of mahājanas. They are mahājanas. This Brahmā, mahājana; Lord Śiva, mahājana; *Kumāra, mahājana. Lakṣmīdevī is the potency, spiritual potency of Lord Viṣṇu, Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa's potency, and she's always engaged in massaging the lotus feet of Nārāyaṇa. You have seen the picture. Śrī-sampradāya. Śrī. She is known as Śrī. Śrī means opulence, fortune, beauty. So she is the reservoir of all these things. So she has got... It is called Śrī-sampradāya. The Rāmānuja-sampradāya, they are called Śrī-sampradāya. They worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. Everyone worships the Lord and His potency, spiritual potency. Just like we worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, similarly, the Rāmānuja-sampradāya, they worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa or Sītā-Rāma. So we should follow the sampradāya. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te viphalā matāḥ.



*So here Prahlāda Mahārāja said that... Prahlāda Mahārāja is also mahājana because he follows mahājana. He says, viriñca-gītāḥ: "I'll enjoy. I shall relish tava līlā-kathaḥ, Your pastime, the narration of Your pastime." But it is not that narration, as it is written by some mundane dramatic drama writer or novel writer. No, not that. That is useless. You should not touch. If some ordinary person has written something about Kṛṣṇa's līlā, you should not touch even. It must be in the sampradāya, must be authorized person. Otherwise it is useless. You should not touch even. Therefore he especially mentioned, līlā-kathās tava nṛsiṁha viriñca-gītāḥ: "which is given by mahājanas like Brahmā." Just like we offer prayers from Brahma-saṁhitā. We cannot offer prayer from any other persons, written by any other nonsense. No, that is not possible. Viriñca-gītāḥ. There is power. If you recite the prayers composed by mahājana, it has got spiritual power. Just like in your country, Mr. Max Mueller, he's very famous as translator of Vedas. But... Many scholars, they have read the translation of Max Mueller, but nobody could understand what is the purpose of Vedas because he's not in the line. He's useless. Similarly, that French professor, he has mentioned specially... In comparison to my writing*-he has rejected even Aurobindo and Dr. Radhakrishnan. Yes, that is right. What Dr. Radhakrishnan, Aurobindo, knows about Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because they are not in the line. They simply tried to exhibit their erudite scholarship. So that is useless. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. This is the injunction given in the Vedas. Ayam ātmā, self-realization, God realization... Nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ: "One who has no spiritual strength, he cannot understand." It is not possible. Nāyam ātmā bala hīnena... Na medhayā. If you have got very good fertile brain for manufacturing concocted ideas, that doesn't mean you'll be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. Only one who is favored by Kṛṣṇa and His, I mean to say, confidential devotee... (aside:) What is this nonsense? One cannot understand.

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving warning that "I shall recite the narration of Your pastime which is composed by Brahmā." Viriñci. Viriñci means... Śiva*-viriñci-nutam [SB 11.5.33]. That is the secret of success. You cannot compose by whimsical way. No. That is not. That will not be possible. Therefore the next word is very important, when he says, pada-yugālaya-haṁsa-saṅgaḥ. Pada-yugālaya-haṁsa-saṅgaḥ. This is possible when we associate, saṅgaḥ... Saṅgaḥ means association. Whose association? Pada-yugālaya-haṁsa. One who is... Because Kṛṣṇa's feet is compared as lotus-"lotus feet," we say-so where there is lotus, there is haṁsa, swan. Swan, you'll find. That is the difference between the crows and the swan. Crows gather in a place, filthy place, where all rotten things are kept. The crows come there. Where all rotten things are there, all the crows will come. But when there is lotus, the crows will not go there; *the haṁsa, swan, they'll go there. Even in the bird society there are classes: crow society, swan society, pigeon society, sparrow society. Everyone has got society. But one society is different from another society. Similarly, where there is kṛṣṇa*-kathā, the crowslike men will not come. Where there is cinema, where there is prostitute dance, where there is drinking, the crowslike men will gather. Tad vāyasa-tīrtham. Tad vāyasa... Vāyasa means crows. So, na tad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. Any literature, very nicely written, just like Shakespeare writing or some other, big, big mundane writers, their writing, it is very nicely written, grammatically very correct, and metaphorically very nicely meant... Na tad vacaś citra-padam. Citra-padam means very artistically written. There are literatures very artistical. Na tad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit. But there is no glorification of the Lord; *simply literary presentation. Such kind of literature is described, tad vāyasa*-tīrtham: "This kind of literature is preferred by the class of men who are like crows." Crows. But the Vedic literature, which is sung by Lord Brahmā or Lord Śiva or a devotee, even that is broken language presented, tad gṛṇanti śṛṇvanti sādhavaḥ: "They'll be accepted by saintly person. They'll sing it and they'll accept it." That is the secret of success. If your literature is exactly following the mahājano yena sa gataḥ, then it will be liked by highly advanced saintly person. And if it is a presentation of mundane literary career... Therefore that gentleman has rejected even Aurobindo and Dr... Others he has rejected: "They are useless." Other commentation on Bhāgavata, he has... But he has rejected even Aurobindo and Dr. Radhakrishnan. Dr. Radhakrishnan is well known as a big philosopher, and Aurobindo, he's also known as great speculator, but he rejected. Yes, they should be rejected because it is vāyasa-tīrtha. What is the use, jugglery of words? It has no fact, all imaginary. All imaginary.

*So they are going on like that. Therefore one must be warned, as Prahlāda Mahārāja said. This is mahājana yena... Prahlāda Mahārāja means... He... As he is saying, we must accept. We should not indulge in speculation in..., or literature, literary career, which is never touched by the mahājana. So it is that one must be... The literature must be viriñca*-gītāḥ. Why you are giving so much stress on Bhagavad-gītā as it is? Because it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, anything written by Kṛṣṇa's pure devotee, that is important. Otherwise it's not important. It is not important. So 'haṁ priyasya suhṛdaḥ. We should be engaged always. Reading book is very good, but it must be written by authorities. Then it is good. Now, otherwise, if you read twenty-four hours the newspaper or ordinary book, that kind of reading is simply waste of time. But if we read authorized literature, then that... What will happen then? Then ajas titarmy anugṛṇan guṇa-vipramukto. Very easily, simply by reading such book, we shall be free from material entanglement, simply. Because... Just like Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa, they are identical. There is no difference. Don't think, "When I am reading Bhagavad-gītā not with purpose, then I am bereft." But to associate, to..., with a desire that "I shall be able to associate with devotee and Kṛṣṇa," then Bhagavad-gītā is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference. Advaya-jñāna. Advaya-jñāna means without any difference. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11], Advayam. If you are a devotee, bona fide devotee, when you read Bhagavad-gītā, you must know Kṛṣṇa is there. If you are a pure devotee, when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is there on your tongue, dancing. Don't think otherwise. Kṛṣṇa is there. Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaḥ. Nāma. Anyone who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa without any offense... Ten kinds of offenses, you know that. By avoiding offense, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you must know Kṛṣṇa is there. Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaḥ caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. Similarly, when we read literature, līlā-kathā... Lila-kathā. Just like we are reading now Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is līlā-kathā of Kṛṣṇa and His devotee, Prahlāda Mahārāja. This is līlā, exchange of dealings between devotee and the Lord. The whole Bhāgavata, it is called Bhāgavata, why? The only subject matter is Bhagavān and bhakta. That's all. Bhagavān is the Lord, and bhakta is devotee. It has no other. You won't find any newspaper item, that "There was earthquake in London," and this and that. You don't find all these things. It is not like that, tad vāyasa-tīrtham, not for the enjoyment of the crowslike men. It must be swan, haṁsa. Haṁsa.

*Why haṁsa is taken, paramahaṁsa? Haṁsa has the capacity... Haṁsa means swan. He has got capacity. If you give to the haṁsa milk mixed with water, the haṁsa has got the capacity, so it will drink the milk and reject the water. Therefore haṁsa. And paramahaṁsa, paramahaṁsa means although they are in the material world, they have kicked out the material things, but he has taken Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Kṛṣṇa is there. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Even in this material world there is Kṛṣṇa, but the haṁsa can take it, not the crows. The crows cannot take it. Therefore difference between the crows and haṁsas. So those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are being trained up to become haṁsas, or they are haṁsas. They don't care for anything, material thing. They are concerned with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore paramahaṁsa. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātmā*-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. But the devotees can take Kṛṣṇa from anywhere. Ihā... How it can be taken? What is the process? The process is this devotional service. If you are engaged in devotional service in anywhere, you are with Kṛṣṇa.

īhā yasya harer dāsye

karmaṇā manasā vācā

nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu

jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate



*If one has got sincere desire to serve Kṛṣṇa in any position, in any body, in any circumstance, he is jīvan*-mukta. That is paramahaṁsa. Jīvan-mukta means although he's living in this body, he's paramahaṁsa. He has nothing to do with this body. He has everything to do with Kṛṣṇa.



*So we have to take shelter of such person. Therefore it is said, pada*-yugālaya-haṁsa-saṅgaḥ. A devotee who is always living under the protection, shelter, of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, like haṁsa... Haṁsa, you'll find, they enjoy. When there is a lotus they go down within the water and entangle with the stems of the lotus flower. There is a prayer by Mukunda, Mukunda-mala-stotra. Adyaiva me mānasa-haṁsaḥ, like that. Just now I forget. So our mind should be trained up like haṁsa who entangles himself with the stem of lotus flower. So we have to take shelter of this haṁsa. Pada-yugālaya-haṁsa-saṅgaḥ. Unless we associate with such haṁsa who has nothing to do with this material world, who has taken the cream of the material, Kṛṣṇa, such haṁsa, if we become his servant... Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayo dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsa. Then it will be successful. Pada-yugālaya-haṁsa-saṅgaḥ. Then it will be possible. If we associate with haṁsa, pure devotees, then our life will be successful. Añjas titarmi. Very easily we shall cross over this ocean of nescience. There is another verse like that. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadaṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58]. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam. The same thing, differently expressed.

*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padam...



*Bhavāmbudhiḥ, this great ocean of nescience in which we are now fallen and very much struggling for existence, exactly just like if you are thrown in the ocean, you may be a very good swimmer, but the condition is very dangerous... You'll have to struggle. You cannot say, "I am a good swimmer. I shall be very easily able to cross over the ocean." No. That's not possible. But if you take the shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavam... Anyone who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa... What is that lotus feet? Mahat-padam. It is... It is the shelter of the whole material creation, Mahat-tattva. Mahat-tattva. From mahat-tattva, the total material energy... That is called mahat-tattva. From mahat-tattva the whole cosmic manifestation has come. Therefore the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa means there is also mahat-tattva, many, many mahat-tattva. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Murāri. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Murāri. Puṇya-yaśaḥ, always... Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. Then this... Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. This great ocean of nescience becomes a small spot of water as it is made by the footprint of the calves, vatsa-padam.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, in the previous verse he describes what is the position of this material world, yasmāt priyāpriya*-yoga-viyoga: simply lamentation. Sometimes we are so-called happy by getting the desirable things, and mostly we are unhappy, associating with undesirable things. So in order to save ourself from these opposing elements, the best thing is suggested. So 'haṁ priyasya suhṛdaḥ paradevatāyā līlā-kathās. Let us be engaged always chanting the, or reading the pastimes of the Lord, līlā-kathā. If you read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then it is full of līlā-kathā, the pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So that is the only way to get out of the miserable condition of this material world. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*Kīrtanīya, this is līlā*-kathā, līlā-kathā, kīrtanīya. The... When you read or hear or chant about the pastimes of the Lord, that is also kīrtana. And if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra with instrument, that is also kīrtana. There is no difference. So we must engage kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Either we should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra or we should read our books. This is wanted. Then we'll be safe from māyā. Otherwise, at any time, we'll be victimized.



Thank you very much. (end)



690907SB.HAM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.19

-

Hamburg, September 7, 1969,

(with German Translator)



Prabhupāda:



...majjato nauḥ

*taptasya tat*-pratividhir ya ihāñjaseṣṭas

*tāvad tanu*-bhrtāṁ tvad-upekṣitānām

[SB 7.9.19]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja says... He's praying to Lord Nṛsiṁha. He says, bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha: "My dear Lord, it is not that the parents can give all protection to the children." Nārtasya cāgadam: "Neither the physician and the medicine can give protection to a patient." Nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ: "Neither a nice ship or boat can give protection to the drowning man." Taptasya yat pratividhir: "There are many devices for giving protection to different kinds of dangerous position. But they will be useless if, my dear Lord, You neglect him." For example, there are many children who have got their parents, but they are suffering. There are many patients who are being treated by first*-class medical assistants and physician, but he is dying. Similarly, there are various means invented by modern science to give protection to people. But they become useless without the attention of the Supreme Lord. For example, in our country, in India, we thought that by independence we shall be very, very happy. But actually, when we have got independence, our position has become more precarious.



So we may make various plans to become happy in this material world, but without God's grace we can never be happy. Therefore the Bhāgavata says that the best kind of plan or best kind of occupational duties is that which leads one to the devotional service of the Supreme Lord. The exact Sanskrit verse is,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



If you actually want peace and prosperity, then you must execute such kind of occupational duties which will lead you to the devotional service of the Lord. If he does not do so... That is also stated:



dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viśvaksena kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*You are doing your duties very nicely. You are performing your social, national, or family obligations very nicely. But after all these discharges of duty, if your destination does not reach to the devotional service of the Lord, they are simply waste of time. Therefore in every civilized form of human society there is some kind of religious activities. Unfortunately, religious activities have been misinterpreted. Just like any religious sect, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or anyone, they go to temple or church to pray to God for some solution of problems. People generally think that "If I become religious person, then my economic condition will be very nice." In the Vedic way of thinking, in the material world, there are four stages of development. They are called dharma*-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90], namely following the religious principles, economic development, sense gratification, and liberation. Just like in the Christian church, people go there to ask, "God, give us our daily bread." So dharma. People generally think that "If I become religious, then my economic condition must be very nice." And when one's economic condition becomes very nice, he wants to make economic condition very nice, he wants some monetary, financial adjustment. This financial improvement people generally want for sense gratification. Dharma-artha-kāma. Dharma means religion, artha means financial facilities, and kāma means sense gratification. And then, when one is baffled in sense gratification, he wants liberation. These four principles are generally followed by the materialistic men. Liberation... When one is baffled in adjusting things to his satisfaction, he wants to become one with the Supreme or with the void.



*But Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, or this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is above these four principles of materialistic way of thinking. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to inquire the value of life and the destination of life. We advocate that human form of life is meant neither for religious ritualistic performances or economic development or for sense gratification or for so-called searching after liberation. Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that jīvasya tattva-jijñāsaḥ. We have to accept economic development so far as we keep our body and soul together, fit for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We do not recommend that unnecessarily you should give trouble to the body. We do not recommend any man to go to the forest for spiritual realization. We simply recommend that you try to understand what is your constitutional position. If you actually think or meditate very cool-headed what is your actual position, first of all you shall realize that you are not this body. If you meditate in a solitary place... Meditation means to keep yourself alone and in a solitary place. So in the beginning, if you meditate as to "What I am? Am I this body? Am I this mind? Am I this intelligence?" in this way, if you search out, you will find that you are neither of these. Ultimately, you'll search out that you are consciousness.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā this is explained from the very beginning. It is said there, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That thing is immortal which is spread all over your body. That thing which is spread all over your body, that is consciousness. If you pinch any part of your body, you'll be conscious that there is some pain. Therefore the Bhagavad-gītā is aiming at this consciousness. And what is this consciousness? This consciousness is the illumination of the soul. Just like the sunshine is the illumination, light, of the sun globe. The sun globe is situated in one of the corners of this universe, but its illumination is distributed all over the universe. Similarly you, as spark of the Supreme soul... The dimension is also mentioned. It is ten-thousandth portion of the tip of your hair. One ten-thousandth portion. That small particle is your identification. The medical science or the material science cannot find out that small particle of soul by any means. Therefore they decline to accept the existence of the soul. But from authoritative Vedic literature we get this information that the soul is there. Now about the soul, the Bhagavad-gītā says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



The soul is there in the body; *therefore the body is changing or developing. From a small body in the womb of mother, we have developed so big. So it is developing on account of the presence of the soul. This change of body is within the experience of everyone. You can very easily remember that you had a childhood body, very small, and now you have got a bigger body. Therefore, although the body is changing, you are the same. Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, when ultimately we change this body and accept another body, so there is no question of being, how to say, struck with wonder.



*So if you study yourself, that "I am spirit soul and this body is external expansion only," then you can understand that within this external expansion of cosmic manifestation there is the Supersoul. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. The Lord says that "By My one portion I enter into this cosmic manifestation and thus I maintain it." Similarly, as we are maintaining this body by entering into this body, similarly God is maintaining this cosmic manifestation by entering into it. Therefore we are qualitatively one. As I enter into this material body and expand it and maintain it, similarly the Supersoul enters into this cosmic manifestation and maintains it and develops it. (disturbance in the background) (aside:) That's all right. Don't disturb. So as you have got consciousness, a small consciousness or limited consciousness, similarly the Supersoul has got unlimited consciousness. You are conscious of your bodily existence, I am conscious of my bodily existence, but I am not conscious of your bodily existence, neither you are conscious of my bodily existence. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. And the Supersoul is conscious of your bodily existence and my bodily existence. Therefore God is present everywhere*-in your heart, in my heart, in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. It is specifically mentioned that Supersoul is everywhere within the heart of every living entity. The exact Sanskrit word used in this connection is called kṣetrajñāḥ. (to translator:) Yes, explain. Kṣetra, kṣetra means field, and jñāḥ, jñāḥ means knower. Kṣetrajñāḥ. So you are knower of the field of your existence. That means this body. The body is the field of your existence. Just like a cultivator has got a tract of land, a small land which he cultivates in his own way, similarly, we have got this small body and we are called kṣetrajñāḥ, knower of this body. Just like if you study each and every part of your body, you will understand that "It is mine." You will claim this finger as your finger, but you'll not claim other's finger as your finger. But God can claim your finger and my finger as His finger. Kṣetra-jñāṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. It is said, "My dear Arjuna, as individual soul is the proprietor of that individual body, I am also proprietor not of that individual body but all bodies." Everything.

*Now, as I have already explained to you, that being qualitatively one, as we have got consciousness, God has also got... He is also conscious. He has got consciousness. So when this individual consciousness is in agreement with the superconsciousness, it is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that our consciousness at the present moment is misguided. We have to dovetail it with Kṛṣṇa's consciousness. This is called oneness, or agreeing with the superconsciousness. That is called oneness. For example, just like you are citizens of this German state. If you are in agreement with the state laws, your life is secure and safe. But if you are in disagreement with the state laws, your life is not safe. Similarly, when we are in agreement with the supreme consciousness, then we become immediately peaceful and happy. That is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says at the ultimate end, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "My dear Arjuna..." He is teaching to Arjuna-not only Arjuna, but all human society*-that "You give up your all manufactured occupational duties. You simply agree to My proposal, and I shall give you all protection." It does not mean that we lose our individuality. Just like Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "You do it," but He does not force him: "You do it." "If you like, you do it." Kṛṣṇa does not touch your independence. He simply requests you, "You do it."

*So we can become happy and peaceful by keeping our individuality if we dovetail our consciousness with the supreme consciousness. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. This surrendering process, this voluntarily surrendering oneself to dovetail his consciousness with Kṛṣṇa, is possible after many, many births. (end)



760226SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.19

-

Māyāpur, February 26, 1976



Dayānanda: "My Lord Nṛsiṁha, the Supreme, persons who are neglected by You and not taken care of by You, such embodied souls cannot do anything better on account of bodily conception of life. And whatever remedial measures they take, they are certainly not permanent, although they may be beneficial temporarily. In this concern, there is the example of the father and mother who cannot give any protection to their children. The physician and medicine..."



Prabhupāda: "Cannot give any relief."



Dayānanda: "...which cannot give relief to the suffering patient, and the boat on the ocean which cannot give protection to the drowning man." [SB 7.9.19]



Prabhupāda: This is very instructive verse. The whole world is planning to give relief to the suffering humanity, but the foolish people, they do not know that you may do your best, but if it is not sanctioned by the Supreme Lord, all these measures will not be of any use. "Why? We have got science, medicine, and relief arrangement. They are all useless?" Yes. They are useful so long, as long as Kṛṣṇa says "Yes." If Kṛṣṇa says "No," then in spite of all this relief, nothing will be done. This is the answer. You can open many hospitals, but if Kṛṣṇa says that "This patient must die," you cannot give any protection. That is not possible. In spite of your hospital, good medicine, good physician, the patient must die.



*So they do not see to this, that in spite of our so much advancement of civilization, hospitals and other relief measures, why still people are suffering? You are increasing hospital or beds of hospital. You are very much proud that "We have opened hospitals." That... What does it mean? That means people have become diseased. You have opened hospitals, you are very much proud, but what is the other side? Other side: that people have increased their diseased condition. That they do not see. They are simply proud of increasing hospital. Why there should be hospital? Why not stop disease? That is scientific advancement. Stop disease, and there will be no need of opening hospital. Kṛṣṇa therefore presents in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "You rascal, you see. Real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]." You can invent very nice, up-to-date, modernized medicine, but why don't you stop disease? That you cannot do. That is not possible. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. You are taking so many measures to stop untimely death. Just like in your country there are beaches and so many warning, "Don't come here." And there is guard seeing if anyone is dying, so... But you cannot stop death. That is not possible. You may take measure, so many. You cannot stop death. Children, somebody says, the parents do not take care, but even the parents take care, is it guaranteed that the children will not die? There are many rich men, they are taking care of their children. Rich men, they are taking care of the diseased person, good physician, good medicine. Why the diseased person is dying? Why the children suffering? So, these are to be observed. Why these things happen? That means the ultimate control is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa sanctions, then everything will be possible. So why not take shelter of Kṛṣṇa? This is the idea. You take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, and if Kṛṣṇa likes, He will give you all protection. And He promises that "I'll give protection."

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



Because we become diseased, we become subject to birth and death, we... This is all due to our sinful activities. Why are repeatedly...? We are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is our position, that we do not die even after the body's destruction. Then why should I be in this position, that repeatedly I have to die, I have to give up this body, again accept another body, again suffer? This is the problem, but mūḍhā, duṣkṛtina, they do not see to the real problem. That is their fault. Neither they have knowledge to see the real problem. Therefore they are mūḍhā. Is it not? He's understood that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So this question does not come, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. Why I am subjected to this tribulation?" Nobody thinks; therefore mūḍhā. Just like animal. Animal, in the slaughterhouse, one animal is being killed, and the other animal is eating grass. He's thinking that "I am safe." He does not know that "Next moment I'll be killed." This is animal life. The human life means if somebody is being killed, so he should be immediately warned, taking warning, "Oh, my turn is coming. Let me go away."



There is one story in this connection. Not story; *these are facts. A hunter spread his net. So some little birds, they fell down in the net and they are crying. They are crying. So the father, mother, when they came, they saw that their children are in danger: "It is caught by the net of the hunter." So mother immediately jumped over it to save the children, and she was also captured. Then the father saw, "Now if I go to save them, I'll be captured. Let me go away. Let me take sannyāsa. That's all." (laughter) That is intelligence. (laughter) You cannot give protection to your family, to your society. To your... No, you cannot give. That is not possible. They must die. They must be captured by the network of māyā. You cannot save them. If you want to save them, then make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the only remedy. Unless you are expert in saving your children by giving them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are not, you should not become father and mother. That is real contraceptive method, that "I shall... We are married, undoubtedly, husband and wife, but unless we are competent to give protection to my children-no more death*-we should not beget children." This is real contraceptive.

*That is the instruction in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt 'na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. Your duty is to give protection to children, father, mother. That's very good. But real protection is that "My children, this boy, this girl, has come in my belly. Now this is the last. I shall train them in such a way that next birth, he'll not have a material body." How it is? Yes, it is possible. How? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. One can give up this material body... Everyone has to give it up. There is no doubt. But one is giving up this body and accepting another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. But there is another method, that he's not going to accept any more material body. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: [Bg. 4.9] "After giving up this body, he's not going to accept another material body." Who? Janma karma ca divyaṁ ye jānāti tattvataḥ: "Anyone who has understood Kṛṣṇa has He is." This is the secret, to teach your children like that, that what is Kṛṣṇa. From the beginning, you can do that. The children are under your control. Just like we are teaching these boys. They are simply chanting, dancing. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that useless education-after some years they will learn how to smoke bidi. It is not like that. They'll never touch bidi. This is education. Tan manye adhītam uttamam. Even they are not literary person, they will have character and they'll become Kṛṣṇa devotee. That is real education. Don't think that "These boys are brought here. They're not giving any education, academic. They do not know what is history, what is geography." They know little, little, not very much. We don't require to know very much, neither we are very much concerned, learning A-B-C-D. Even without A-B-C-D, they will be advanced in education. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Tan manye adhītam uttamam. One who has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness directly, he is actually advanced in education. What is this education? This education has no value. Even from mundane point of view, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... I have several..., recited this verse,

*mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

*ātmavat sarva*-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



*Who is a paṇḍita? Paṇḍita means one who has learned how to see other women, means except one's wife, anyone, any woman*-mother. He's paṇḍita. Where is that education? Where is that education? No. But these children will be educated in that way, to see all woman as mother. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Para-dravyeṣu: other's property as garbage in the street. Nobody touches. That is paṇḍita. He'll not touch even anything. Even valuable jewel is lying on the street, a paṇḍita will say, "I shall not touch it." This is a moral education. And ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. Ātmavat. If you feel some pain by pinching, why should you pinch others? And that is paṇḍita. If you cry when your throat is cut with a knife, why you should slaughter other animals? Therefore Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But these people are so uneducated. In spite of their Ph.D.s, they have no, this simple education, that "I suffer when I am killed. Why I shall kill others?" This is the modern education, all nonsense rascals' education. This is not education.



*So if we have to become father and mother, we shall have to teach our children in such a way that next life, no more material life. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. That is real father and mother. Therefore it is said, balasya neha śaraṇaṁ nṛsiṁha pitarau. If the father, mother do not know how to give protection to the children, then what is the use of taking shelter? Huh? In Prema*-vivarta it is said, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nahe mile bhaja hari ei. Every... Cats and dogs, they also get father and mother. Without father, mother, who can take birth? So to become the father, mother, like cats and dogs, that is not human civilization. The father, mother's duty is to train the children in such a way that they will be interested in Kṛṣṇa and guru. That is father, mother. Because, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-lātā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*So it is the duty of the father and mother to train children in such a way that they will be interested in guru and Kṛṣṇa. Why? By the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa, he'll get bhakti*-lātā-bīja. And that is real life. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is real religious system, which teaches the follower how to become a devotee. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Ahaituky apratihatā yenātmā suprasīdati. If you want to make him happy, then you must teach in such a way that he becomes a devotee of the Lord. Then, throughout the whole life, he'll be peaceful and happy. This is required.



*Therefore the ordinary father and mother, like cats and dogs, they are not real shelter of the children. That is... Prahlāda Mahārāja said, bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha na ārtasya. Ārtasya means diseased, suffering from some disease. No, just like I have already explained, we are opening hopitals and bed... That is not. You can do it, but at the same time he must be Kṛṣṇa conscious. We have got practical examples. Some of our devotees, they go to the hospital, and they purchase our books and they become a devotee. Even in hospital bed they're reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, and taking benefit. That is real remedy. So after being cured, he'll become a devotee. So this medicine is not cure. This literature is cure, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real cure. Nārtasya cāgadam. And udanvati majjato nauḥ. Everyone is drowned, either you take figeratively or really. In the samudra, in the sea, ocean, there are always ojhs, (?) waves. So your tiny boat or big ship, that is not safe side. We have got experience. When I was going to New York on ship*-I had no money to go by plane-so in the deep sea ocean, especially in the Atlantic Ocean, it was nothing, like a small ball, tottering like this. At any moment can be capsized. Although very big ship with very big load, but it is nothing in the sea. So that is not sure. There is no surety that because you are in a big ship you'll be saved. No. In your country, it happened, say, fifty, sixty years, the Titantic, or what is that? In the first voyage, everything was drowned, all big, big men. So nature's freak is so strong that you cannot say that "Because I have got a nice ship, I'll be saved." No, that is not possible. Without Kṛṣṇa's protection, this, all these counteracting measures, will be all useless.

*Therefore teach people how to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You can say that "Does it mean that God is partial? He take only care of the devotees and not others?" He takes care of everyone, but everyone is not fortunate to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. When He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam, He does not say to His devotees only. He says to everyone. But everyone is not fortunate to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Unfortunate. Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu. He's not partial. Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu ne me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ [Bg. 9.29]. Nobody is enemy or friend of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is His son. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. Just like the father teaches every son to become good, but there are unfortunate sons who do not take care of the father and remains to be unfortunate. So it is not Kṛṣṇa's partiality; *it is our misfortune that we do not take care of the instruction of Kṛṣṇa and suffer in this material world. This is the position. These rascals, they inquire, "Why, if Kṛṣṇa is so good, why He has put me into this position?" The rascal does not know that Kṛṣṇa wants you all to be happy, and He has given the instruction how to become happy, but we are unfortunate. We do not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction and suffer. This knowledge is not there. Māyāyapahṛta*-jñānā. He's suffering for his own fault, and he's accusing God that "He has put me into this position." No. Therefore those who are devotees, they do not become so foolish. When they are suffering, they do not accuse Kṛṣṇa. They say, "My Lord, it is Your mercy that I am suffering." Just the opposite. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ [SB 10.14.8]. Because he knows that "I am suffering on account of my own fault. So better Kṛṣṇa is adjusting the thing, giving me little trouble, that's all." That is the position. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54].

*So we have to learn all these things. Then, taptasya tat*-pratividhiḥ. I think in some reading there is yat-pratividhiḥ. Eh? But here it is tat-pratividhiḥ. All right, what it is... So they, we have so many countermeasures for..., because this whole world, this material world, means duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is a place for suffering. And that also not permanent place. But our struggle is that "We may not suffer, and we may remain here permanently." That is foolishness. This place is meant for suffering, and you cannot stay here for permanently. This is the constitution of this place. And the whole world, this foolish world, they are struggling to stop suffering and to remain here, permanent. Just see their foolishness. Everyone is trying to remain permanently. Just like we are constructing temples very sound, very strong, but they are constructing skyscraper building, strong, permanent. But he does not know, "Whether I shall be able to live here permanently?" So they can put the argument to us also, that "This is the case with you also." But our case is different. We are constructing this temple not for our living but for Kṛṣṇa's. That is the difference. That is the difference. We do not make any temple or house for ourself. We try to give chance to the devotees, and Kṛṣṇa shall live here. Kṛṣṇa's devotees will learn how to worship Him. That is our purpose. Here it is not a free hotel for learning how to gratify senses. No. This is not our aim and object. That is the difference. Therefore nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. The same energy is being enacted here for constructing big house, but it is nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha.

anāsaktasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

*nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe

*yukta*-vairāgyam ucyate



*So taptasya tat*-pratividhir ya iha añjasā iṣṭas tāvat. The example is given already, that unless there is sanction by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you cannot get any benefit with all the machines and all the instrument and all the measures that you have invented to counteract your struggle for existence. The struggle for existence will not be stopped.



Thank you very much. (end)



760227SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.20

-

Māyāpur, February 27, 1976



*Dayānanda: "My dear Lord, everyone within this material world under the modes of material nature, being influenced by the mode of goodness, the mode of passion, the mode of ignorance, all of them being influenced by the particular mode of nature and working, all of them, including the greatest personality, Lord Brahmā, down to the smallest ant-everyone is working under such influence. Therefore everyone within this material world is influenced by Your energy, under the cause of which they are working, the place where they are working, the time when they are working, the matter for which they are working, the ultimate goal of life as they have considered as final, and the process and ways of activity*-all of them are nothing but different manifestation of Your energy. And as the energy and energetic being identical, all such activities are Your different forms of energy only."



Prabhupāda:



yasmin yato yarhi yena ca yasya yasmād

yasmai yathā yad uta yas tv aparaḥ paro vā

bhāvaḥ karoti vikaroti pṛthak svabhāvaḥ

sañcoditas tad akhilaṁ bhavataḥ svarūpam

[SB 7.9.20]



*This is summarized in the Vedic language, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without Kṛṣṇa there is nothing existing. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Whatever we see, very superior or inferior, good or bad, that is all from Kṛṣṇa. Bad is also Kṛṣṇa? Yes. Bad is also Kṛṣṇa because there cannot be anything existing without Kṛṣṇa, no existential position. Mat-sthāni...



mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

[Bg. 9.4]



*Everything existing on Kṛṣṇa. This material energy-earth, water, fire, air, sky*-that is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. They are also Kṛṣṇa's energies. Opposite elements also. Just like heat and cold. So they are opposite. Śītoṣṇa. Śīta means winter, and uṣṇa means summer, warm and cold, cool. We see practically that the expert electrician by the same electric energy is running on the heater and the cooler. The cooler is also working under electric energy, and the heater is also working. So ephemerally heat is opposite to coolness, and coolness is opposite to heat. But both of them are working under the same energy; *simply it is a question of adjustment by the expert electrician. So God is one, and His energy is also one, and there is no separation of energy from the energetic. Just like fire and heat. Heat cannot be separated from fire. But still, heat is not fire. I may be heated by high temperature, but if there is fire, then I will be burned-different action-although both of them are the same, heat and fire. Therefore the conclusion should be sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat parasya brahmaṇaḥ śakti. Parasya. Parasya means "of the Supreme Brahman." Supreme Brahman is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. And Arjuna also accepts Kṛṣṇa as Parabrahman. So everything is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā: [Bg. 9.4] "I am spread all over the creation.' Avyakta-mūrtinā. But you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Here we know there is air, there is ether, there is light, there is heat-everything is here. We can see it, experience it, but avyakta-mūrtinā*-Kṛṣṇa is invisible, imperson. That is the difference between person and imperson. There are philosophers who think that the Absolute Truth is person, and there are other philosophers, they think the Absolute Truth is imperson. But we followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we accept both. He is person and imperson also at the same time, simultaneously. Acintya-bhedābheda-tattva.



So this is very nice philosophy. We have to understand very clearly this position, the grammatical difference. What is called? The nominative? What is called in Sanskrit? Karaka? Kartā karaka, karma karaka, like that? Yes. Different things are being done under different situation. They are called karaka. Somebody was working as the person; another is objective; another is causative; another is dative; another is relative. In this way it is explained here, yathā yena yasmai yasmāt. So these are the karaka, different position of activities. But all these different positions can be adjusted into one. That is Kṛṣṇa, Brahman. Eko brahma dvitiya nāsti. Only Kṛṣṇa is there, nothing except Kṛṣṇa. That understanding, that there is something other than Kṛṣṇa, that conception, "other than Kṛṣṇa," is called māyā. Actually there is nothing except Kṛṣṇa, but due to our imperfect knowledge we think there is something other than Kṛṣṇa. There is nothing other than Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idam...

*In other place also it is said that eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgneḥ.

*eka*-deśa-sthitasya agner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ

sarvam idam akhilaṁ jagat



*Just like this light is there. Light is in one localized place. Then another... These examples are very easy to be understood, that the sun... Sun globe you see in the morning. It is there, but the heat and light is expanded, two energies. With the sunshine, with the sunlight, we get light, sunshine, and at night we are shivering in cold, and there is heat*-no more shivering. So two things are emanating from the sun, two energies: heat and light. The physicists, their whole study of physical nature is based on this heat and light, and nothing else. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa has got two energies: heat and light. Here in this material world we can feel the heat. The things are going on very nicely without any change. The sun is rising exactly at 6:15, and the whole day working, and again in the evening exactly at 5:30 it is setting. So this material world is that heat. Just like I am sitting here, I feel heat-immediately I shall be warm. There must be some fire; otherwise wherefrom the heat is coming? "See where there is fire." If there is smoke, then one should understand there is fire. I have seen practically in Nainital, very high hill, and there was smoke. So I asked the station master that "Why there is smoke?" So he said, "There is forest fire." So nobody goes there to set fire, but there is fire. By the smoke, one can understand there is fire. Similarly, we should try to understand there is presence of Kṛṣṇa by the heat and light; *two energies, spiritual energy and material energy. The spiritual energy means light. You can see directly Kṛṣṇa. You can talk with Him. You can deal with Him. And the material world the heat is there. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is working. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Without Kṛṣṇa's energy, how everything is taking place? And He is explaining. He says, mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10]. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram. Don't be rascal, that "This material nature is working automatically." This is rascal's. Material nature is not working independently, not by accident. It is not accident that exactly at 6:30 or 6:15 the sun is rising. Do you think accident takes place every day? One day you may say, "The sun is rising at 6:30 by accident." But daily? What is this rascaldom?



*So those who support this accident theory, they are simply rascals. How accident can take place exactly in the same time and in the same way, exactly in the same season changing? And the flowers are coming. The atmosphere is different. Is that accident? Less intelligent, mūḍhā. They will not agree that it is being done by God, by the direction of..., mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10]. Adhyakṣa means direction. So the sun, moon, or anything material that is working, we see they are working very wonderfully, but don't think that they are working automatically or independently. No. That is not possible. The foolish man may think like that, "automatically." No, there is no automatically, no accident. Therefore, yena yasmād yataḥ yad uta, superior, inferior*-everything is systematically being done according to the desire. They say, "Not a blade of grass moves without the desire of Kṛṣṇa." That's a fact. Without Kṛṣṇa's desire... Every step we are going forward, it is guided by Kṛṣṇa. It is not directly by Kṛṣṇa but through the instrument of Kṛṣṇa. This is nature. Nature is nothing but instrument. Durgā. Durgā. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. This Durgā energy. Durgā energy means this material energy. Durgā. Durgā means fort. We are packed up within this fort. You see the round sky. It is just like a football. And within, we are packed up. Just like the soldiers, they are within the fort or there are other persons also, similarly, this is a durgā. Durgā. Duḥ means difficult, and ga means going. Dur-gā. So because the nature is feminine, therefore it is called Durgā. So just like in the fort, in the jail, if you are put, it is dur-gā, very difficult to come out, very, very difficult. Duḥ means it is not so easy. Therefore it is called dur-gā. You cannot enter in the fort or in the jail. Big, big walls, you cannot enter there without permission, and you cannot come out without permission. That is called durgā. So this Durgā, or durgā-śakti, material energy, very, very powerful. You cannot come out from this fort of material existence without superior permission. That is Kṛṣṇa's permission. Mayādhyakṣeṇa: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My vigilence, under My superintendence."

*So Durgā*-devī is keeping you captivated. When Kṛṣṇa says, "Let him go," immediately released. Immediately you are released. And when Kṛṣṇa says, "Keep him under your control," so you have to remain. So we are captivated now within this material world. We are announcing that "We are independent. Whatever we like, we can do." These are all foolishness. You are entangling yourself, simply entangling. A little mistake-you'll have to suffer. Just like in our daily affairs you can eat so much. A little more eating means disturbance in the digestion. You are so much under the control of nature. But these rascals, they do not understand it. They declare, "Freedom."

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*These rascals, vimūḍhā, mūḍhā, very strongly mūḍhās. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. That false egotism-"Oh, I am very big man. I am so intelligent. I am so learned. I have got money"*-this is ahaṅkāra. This is called false ahaṅkāra. This is also... If you actually have got money, that's all right; you can say, "I have got money." But you have nothing, not a farthing, and still, somehow or other, because you have got some money, you say, "I have got money." That is not your money; *that is Kṛṣṇa's money. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, you rascal. You do not know. You are thinking that it is your money. That is ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā. Now where you are going? You are giving up this body, so take your money with you. How can you take? The money is there, the body is there, the family is there, the house is there-everything left. Now you go and become a dog. You have treated just like a dog. You have treated just like a hog. Now you take the body of a... Now your money, your family, your society, your house-left. So how you can claim, "It is mine"? The ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. These rascals, under false egoism, thinking, "This is mine. This is..." Real sense is īśāvāsyam idam. It is all Kṛṣṇa's.



*So service means that Kṛṣṇa's things should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that's all. You have nothing to earn. Everything Kṛṣṇa's. Just like in India you'll find, there are many devotees. If you go to the Ganges, they are taking bath, and they are offering worship to the Ganges. What is that worship? Now, you take little water from the Ganges, and with mantra you again throw it down. So that water you are offering to the Ganges, is it your property? That water you have taken from the Ganges, but with devotion, if you say, "Mother Ganges, Gangājī, it is your thing. Please take my offering," then mother Ganges is pleased. Similarly, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. The sooner you offer to Kṛṣṇa whatever you have got, that is your triumph. And so long you keep it-"It is my property"*-Then you are a fool. Then you are a fool number one. You cannot keep it; it is false. Just like a child, he has taken some notes from the father, and he'll not give it, and father is asking, "Ah, my dear child, you are so good. You take little lozenges. You give these note." It is going like that. Kṛṣṇa is begging, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo... [Bg. 9.26]. (end)



760228SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.21

-

Māyāpur, February 28, 1976



*Dayānanda: "O my Lord, the supreme eternal, by expansion of Your plenary portion You have created a subtle body, the living entity, through the agency of Your external energy. And thus the living entity becomes entrapped with different varieties of desires through the mind, consisting of unlimited desires to be fulfilled by the Vedic direction of karma*-kāṇḍa, fruitive activity, and the sixteen elements. Who is there who can come out of this entanglement without taking shelter at Your lotus feet?"



Prabhupāda:



māyā manaḥ sṛjati karmamayaṁ balīyaḥ

*kālena codita*-guṇānumatena puṁsaḥ

chandomayaṁ yad ajayārpita-ṣoḍaśāraṁ

*saṁsāra*-cakram aja ko 'titaret tvad-anyaḥ

[SB 7.9.21]



This is the description of material existence. So, first thing is, our mind is polluted. The simple statement of a Vaiṣṇava poet,



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyāra tāre jāpaṭiyā dhāre



*Actually our position is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is real position. Caitanya Mahāprabhu starts His instruction from this point, that we are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, and because we have rebelled not to serve, therefore Kṛṣṇa, out of His unlimited mercy and compassion, He comes down and teaches, "You rascal, surrender. Why you are suffering unnecessarily?" Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ: [Bg. 18.66] "You rascal, you give up all these so-called engagements. You surrender to Me."



*So from this point Caitanya Mahāprabhu starts His instruction. When Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Him that "By Your mercy I have left my this material engagement. I was minister. I was very much puffed up. So by good fortune I saw You. Now I have retired from my so*-called happy life. Now please tell me what is my position?" Ke āmi kene āmāre jāre tāpa traya: "Why I am? What I am? Why I am put into this condition of suffering?" Just like one goes to the physician, a diseased man. He submits and inquires from the physician that "Why I am suffering from this pain? Some pain always in the heart, some pain in the belly, some pain in head. So what is the disease?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "The disease is that you are servant of Kṛṣṇa. You are, rascal, trying to be master of the world." This is the struggle. A servant is trying to become master. How it is possible? It is simply entanglement. Just like in an office, a menial servant, if he wants to imitate the master, he'll be involved in so many difficulties. So that is our position.

*So it is possible. Because a living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so he has got the qualities of Kṛṣṇa in very, very minute, fragmental portion. I have several times explained this. Just like a small drop of sea water has got the same chemical composition as the vast sea water. Therefore, if you taste the vast sea water, it is salty, and the drop is also salty because the same chemical composition is there in minute quantity. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is svatantam. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. Svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. Bhāgavata begins that "The origin of everything, the Absolute Truth, is sentient." He's not a chunk. He's sentient. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Abhijñaḥ means sentient. He's not a dull matter. But, the question is, wherefrom knowledge and sense comes? We have to take senses, learn knowledge, from master, from teacher. But so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He is svarāṭ. He hasn't got to take any knowledge from anyone. That is Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, feature, svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. Everything He's independent. He's not dependent. Nija*-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. The other day we learned, nija-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. He is always complete in Himself. He hasn't got...

*So when we imitate Kṛṣṇa-we want to be complete in ourself without the help of Kṛṣṇa*-this is called māyā. Māyā means that we want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. That is going on, material world. Therefore you'll find these Māyāvādīs... (aside:) Who is that? Take him out. The Māyāvādīs, they persist on this point, that "I am God." The māyā is working there. Māyā is working there still, although he is thinking that "I am now liberated. I have become Nārāyaṇa." Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. He is thinking that "I am God." That means he is in the darkest region of māyā, and still, he is thinking that he's liberated. He is thinking what he's not. At the present moment, you'll find, the whole world is filled up with these rascals. They are in the deepest region of māyā and concocting that he is God, he is God. This is māyā. Therefore it is said, māyā manaḥ. The māyā manaḥ is so strong that māyā manaḥ sṛjati karmamayaṁ balīyaḥ. Very strong. His material existence began from this point, that "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? I shall remain independent." But the rascal does not know that he cannot become independent. That is not possible. But this is the beginning of material life. "Why shall I accept God? I am God." So the same thing is continuing in different phases.

*So māyā manaḥ is very strong. It is very, very difficult. Therefore we have to voluntarily surrender. It takes very, very long time, balīyaḥ, but if one is intelligent, if one is fortunate, he takes immediately. That is the difference. Otherwise it will take many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Even if he is jñānavān, full knowledge of everything, scientific knowledge, physical, chemical, metaphysical, mathematical, all this knowledge, but denying God, "I am God. There is no need of God. Now we shall do everything. We are advanced in science..." This is called māyā manaḥ. These rascals, thinking like that... It will never be possible. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām [Bs. 5.34]. Great, a great muni... Muni means mental speculators. They're thinking within the mind this, that, this, that, this, that. Muni-puṅgavānām. Puṅgava. Puṅgava means very expert mental speculator. Even they think like that for many, many years... Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara. Koṭi means hundred lakhs, and again multiplied by sata, sata, unlimited. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo [Bs. 5.34]. And the speed? Vāyor athāpi manaso, speed of the air and the mind. Still, avicintya-tattve: they cannot understand what is God. Ask any scientist, any physicist, any mathematician. Just like recently one rascal-he is doctor*-he has said that "Sītā was sister of Rāma, and Rāma was this and that." So speculator. He has become bigger than the ācāryas, and because he has got little doctorate title, he's thinking that he has become very, very big. This is going on. This is called māyā manaḥ. Māyā is so strong that she is bewildering even so-called doctorates, deletes(?) and others. All rascals. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Although they have got these university degrees, but they are rascals. Why? Māyayapahṛta-jñānā. Their knowledge has been taken away by māyā.

*Māyā is very strong. You have seen the picture of Māyā, Durgādevī, and the Mahiṣāsura is fighting, very strong, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. There are many asuras. So Mahiṣa... Sometimes Kṛṣṇa Himself comes to kill the asura, or sometimes His agent, Māyā, Durgādevī, kills. You have seen the picture of Goddess Kālī. She is killing simply the asuras, chopping one after another, one after another, one after... Sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā [Bs. 5.44]. She can create, she can maintain, and she can make pralaya, devastator. That is her business. But so powerful, still, she is under the control of the Supreme Lord. Therefore here it is said, saṁsāra-cakram aja ko 'titaret tvad-anyaḥ. "A strong māyā. I cannot get out of her clutches." So Prahlāda Mahārāja knows it. Ko 'titaret: "Who can surpass? Who can get rid of this clutches of māyā?" Tvad-anyaḥ. That is the fact. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender to Me, and you'll be free from māyā." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ sara..., ahaṁ tvām: [Bg. 18.66] "I'll give you protection." Mām eva ye prapadyante. The same thing, whole instruction, is there. Simply if we want to be happy... Happiness you cannot have in this way, by concocting plans. That is not possible. You have seen the whole world, especially in the modern days. So many big, big nations, they are assembled together in the United Nations. Nonsense, where is unity? Simply disunity. For the last twenty or thirty years they are struggling. Before that, they convened another, League of Nation. So they are making simply plans. And it continues for some time. Then, after fifteen or twenty years, again conflagration of war, especially in the Europe. They're all demons. How the demons can bring in peace by so-called United Nation or League of Nation? That is not possible. They have to give up the demonic activities. They have to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then they will be saved.

*So we are just trying to introduce the real civilization. Actually there is no civilization at the present moment. They are simply cats and dogs and fighting one another. There is no civilization. This is not civilization. Atheists, demons, they are predominating. And because they have got big, big skyscraper building and many motorcars, India has become victimized: "Oh, without this motorcar and without this skyscraper building, we are condemned." So they are trying to imitate. They have forgotten their own culture, the best culture, Vedic culture. So it is the first time that we are trying to conquer over the demonic culture with this Vedic culture. This is the first time. So it is very pleasing that you have joined this movement. If you want to make the human society happy, give them this culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being described by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that saṁsāra*-cakra. If you become involved in this demonic culture, then the saṁsāra-cakra, the wheel of repetition of birth and death, will go on. You cannot stop it. It is not possible. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is possibility. This is the purport of this verse.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760229SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.22

-

Māyāpur, February 29, 1976



Dayānanda: Translation: "My dear Lord, the supreme great, You have created this material world of sixteen paraphernalia, but You are transcendental to such material qualities, or in other words, all these material qualities are under Your full control. You are never conquered by them. Therefore the time element is Your representation. O my Lord, the Supreme, nobody can conquer over You, but so far I am concerned, I am being crushed by the wheel of time, and therefore I am surrendering fully unto You. And now, therefore, kindly take me under the protection of Your lotus feet."



Prabhupāda:



*sa tvaṁ hi nitya*-vijātma-guṇaḥ sva-dhāmnā

*kālo vaśī*-kṛta-visṛjya-visarga-śaktiḥ

cakre visṛṣṭam ajayeśvara ṣoḍaśāre

niṣpīḍyamānam upakarṣa vibho prapannam

[SB 7.9.22]



*The same thing is repeatedly reminded. Māyā... We are niṣpīḍyamānam. We are being crushed by the wheel of time with sixteen spokes. We are being crushed. At the same time, we are thinking that we are very happy. This is called māyā. This is māyā's grace, that in any condition of life, the suffering is very, very acute, but the living entity who is suffering, he thinks, "I am enjoying." This is called māyā. You have seen that the pig eats stool. And when we see, we say, "Ah! What is that? Oh! He is eating stool." But he's thinking that he's enjoying. He is thinking he's enjoying. This is the covering influence of māyā, prakṣepātmika-śakti. Otherwise how one can suffer? The worm in the stool is enjoying. If you take one worm from the stool and keep it aside, he'll again go to the stool. This is māyā, prakṣepātmika-śak..., āvaraṇātmika-śakti, covering. Māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43].



*Prahlāda Mahārāja will speak in later verses that śoce tato vimukha*-cetasaḥ, māyā-suhkhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān. A Vaiṣṇava's concern is... He sees everything. Just like any common man can understand what kind of birth. Nānā yoni bhraman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. Very peculiar arrangement of the māyā. We see sometimes in the airplane, even Indian, they're eating the intestine of the hog, enjoying. That is enjoying. There is a preparation called naphi in Burma. That preparation is made... Every householder has a big jug at the door, and any animal dies, he puts it in that. It is... The bad smell is so strong, if one opens, that whole neighborhood will be polluted, bad smell. So they keep it for some years, and when it is decomposed, the juice is coming, they strain the juice and keep it in bottle. That is called naphi. And when there is some festival, they give little, little, and people enjoy it. So, nānā yoni bhraman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. When my Guru Mahārāja was alive, we had one temple, one of his, in Burma, in Rangoon. So when they were making puris with nice ghee, all the inhabitants will come, "Oh! What you are doing? What you are doing? (laughter) What you are doing? Intolerable. It is..." The flavor of ghee was intolerable, and the flavor of naphi is tolerable.

*So nānā yoni bhraman kare, kadarja bhakṣaṇ kare. Very peculiar condition we are in this material world. But do not think that when Kṛṣṇa comes, He also is subjected to this suffering. No. That is īśitā. Just like there are many patients in the hospital, infectious disease, but that does not mean the doctors who are treating them, they are also infectious. No. They are not infectious. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. So He is not subjected to this māyic influence. He's not subjected. Therefore it is said, tvam nitya*-vijitātma-guṇaḥ. This material world is created by Him, composition of three material qualities-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa-but He does not belong to any one of them. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that when God comes, incarnation, He also accepts the sattva-guṇa and therefore the form is there. Their conclusion is, "The Absolute Truth is formless, so when He accepts a form of this material world, He accepts this sattva-guṇa." But that is not the fact. He's above sattva-guṇa even. Therefore it is said, nitya-vijita ātma-guṇaḥ. Sva-dhāmnā. He comes with His own spiritual energy, sva-dhāmnā. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, in the beginning it is said, dhāmnā nirasta-kuhakam. Nirasta-kuhakam. Kuhakam means illusion. So the spiritual world, there is no such illusion or these three guṇas. Therefore it is said, nirasta-kuhakaṁ sva-dhāmnā. In the spiritual world there is no influence of these three guṇas. That is in this material world. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not become affected or, rather, infected with these guṇas. Nirguṇa... That is nirguṇa. Nirguṇa guṇa-bhoktā ca. He's bhoktā. He's bhoktā or nirguṇa. Nirguṇa means spiritual guṇa, not material guṇa. When it is said, nirguṇa, "nirguṇa" means without any material quality. That is nirguṇa.

*Sa tvaṁ hi nitya*-vijitātma-guṇaḥ sva-dhāmnā kālo vaśī-kṛta. Kāla, the time factor. We are under the kāla, we conditioned souls, past, present future. Kāla. Kāla, time. Time has got three factors: past, present, future. So what is past, present, future for me, that may not be past, present, future for Brahmā, or that may not be past, present, future for the ant. Every... This world is relative world. My past, present future is relative to me. My limited span of life, say a hundred years. So before hundred years, it is past. And after hundred years, it is future. And the present hundred years is present. But so far Brahmā is concerned, his past, present, future is different. Our forty-three lakhs of years multiplied by one thousand-his present day. That is his present day. Just like we have got this present day, beginning from six-thirty to five-thirty, that. So Brahmā hasn't got such day. This six-thirty to five-thirty, say eleven hours, and Brahma, this eleven hours means our forty-three lakhs of years multiplied by one thousand. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. So in this way, relatively... Similarly, one ant, his one hundred years, he cannot imagine that so long period of man is one day. So everything is relative in our condition. But for Kṛṣṇa, He's eternal. There is no such thing as past, present and future. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ. We are also of the same quality, nityaḥ śāśvataḥ, but under the condition of material nature we are controlled, and this is going on by the time factor. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja is regretting, niṣpīḍyamānam: "I am being crushed by this time factor." But we are thinking, "It is all right." This is called ignorance. We are being crushed under this time factor, the wheel, time wheel, with sixteen spokes, senses. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. "These living entities," Kṛṣṇa said, "they are My part and parcel." So they should remain with Him just like the fire and the spark. Unfortunately we have fallen down. And the result is niṣpīḍyamāna, being crushed.

*So if one is serious to be saved from this crushing process of time factor, then they should learn from Prahlāda Mahārāja. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That... What is that? Niṣpīḍyamāna upakarṣa: "Kindly pick me up." Vibho: "You are vibhu, most powerful, the great omnipotent." "Yes, I am, all right. But why shall I pick it up?" Now, prapannam: "Now I surrender. I rebelled against You, and I was put into this wheel of time, and suffering one after another life. Now I have realized that I am in a precarious condition of life." So niṣpīḍyamānam. This is called human life, when one understands... The animal life, they do not understand what is suffering. The cats and dogs, they are thinking they're living very happily. But in the human life they should come to the understanding that "Actually we are not living happily. We are being crushed by the wheel of time in so many ways." Niṣpīḍyamānam. When this sense comes, then he is a human being. Otherwise he's animal. If he's thinking that he's all right... That is... Ninety*-nine point nine percent people think that "I am all right." Even in the most abominable condition of life, just like the hog and dog, still, he is thinking, "I am all right." So long this ignorance will continue, he is simply animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. This is going on. Ātma-buddhiḥ, tri-dhātuke. This body, which is made of kapha, pitta, vāyu, everyone is thinking, "I am this body." Whole world is going on. Simply we, a few members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are going door to door and trying to convince them, "Sir, you are not this body." They don't care for it. "I am. I am this body. I am Mr. John," "I am Englishman," "I am American," "I'm Indian." You say "I'm not this body." So very difficult task. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to push on, requires great patience, perseverance, tolerance. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*So those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness preaching work, they should always know that things are not going to happen so easily. Māyā is very, very strong. Very, very strong. But still, we have to struggle against māyā. It is a declaration of war with the māyā. Māyā is keeping the living entities under her control, and we are trying to save the living entity from her un... That is the difference. Kālo vaśī*-kṛta-visṛjya-visarga-śaktiḥ. This śakti, visarga-śaktiḥ, is very, very strong, but it is under the control. Although it is very, she is very, very strong, but she is under the control of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Although prakṛti is acting so wonderfully... Very, very, I mean to say, great task she is performing, that immediately the cloud comes. Now it is so bright. Within a second a very big, dark cloud may come and cause devastation immediately. That is possible. These are the wonderful activities of Māyā. But still, she is under the control of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We see this sun so big, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, and you see morning, how quickly it gets up, like this, immediately. The speed is sixteen thousand miles per second. So how it is being happenend? Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakro govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajā... It is being done under the order of Govinda. So therefore He's vibhu. He is great. But we do not know how great He is. Therefore we foolishly accept some pretender, some fraud, as God. We do not know what is the meaning of God. But it is going on. We are fools. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās. We are blind, and another blind man lead us: "I am God. You are God. Everyone is God." But God is not like that.



*Here it is said that God is He who... Kālo vaśī*-kṛta-visṛjya-visarga-śaktiḥ: "He keeps control over the time factor and the creative energy." That is God. God is not so cheap that you'll find here and there. God is everywhere. That's a fact. But that is partial manifestation of His material energy. This is... Ekāṁśena sthito jagat.

athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

vistabhya aham...

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*He's there. Aṇḍāntara*-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. He is within the atom. So when the same God, sa tvam, He comes, the foolish persons, they think that "Kṛṣṇa is like one of us." No. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. One who thinks like that, that "Kṛṣṇa is one of us. He is like a human being, like me or you," he is mūḍha. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto [Bg. 9.11]. He does not know what are the activities of God, what He can do, what He can undo.



So anyway, if by reading all these literatures, explanation, given by God Himself, we come to our senses that He is so great and so merciful, then it becomes possible to surrender unto Him. So for a fortunate person it takes even a second, because God Himself says,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



So if one is intelligent, he takes immediately: "Oh, it is so nice. He'll give me all protection? Let me surrender." Business finished in one second. But if he's a rascal, he wants to search out, make research work, then bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. After many many births it will take... So best thing is, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, prapannam. Arjuna says, prapannam, śādhi māṁ prapannam. This is wanted. Be surrendered to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and be saved from these clutches of māyā.



Thank you very much. (end)



760301SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.23

-

Māyāpur, March 1, 1976



Dayānanda: "My dear Lord, people in general want to be elevated to the higher planetary system for long duration of life, opulence, enjoyment. I have seen all of them through the activities of my father. When my father was very angry and laughing sarcastically upon the demigods, immediately they fell down simply by seeing the movement of his eyebrows. Such my father is now finished within a moment."



Prabhupāda:



*dṛṣṭā mayā divi vibho 'khila*-dhiṣṇya-pānām

āyuḥ śriyo vibhava icchati yāñ jano 'yam

*ye 'smat pituḥ kupita*-hāsa-vijṛmbhita-bhrū-

visphūrjitena lulitāḥ sa tu te nirastaḥ

[SB 7.9.23]



*So this is experience, dṛṣṭā... Everyone has experience what is the situation of this material world. Every day we have seen big, big leaders, ministers. Just like in the history of the world there were so many big, big men*-Hitler, Napoleon, this Churchill, Gandhi, Nehru. But all their powers, position, in one minute it becomes vanquished. There is no question... They are so proud, they do not believe in God, but when the death comes, they cannot argue anything. The death orders, "Immediately vacate"-finished. You have to vacate. At that time their power, opulence, position-nothing can help. So Kṛṣṇa says, therefore... The atheist class of men who do not believe in God, decry the authority of God, for them... Of course, everyone dies, but for them, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham: [Bg. 10.34] Kṛṣṇa comes as death and takes away everything in their possession. But foolish persons, they do not see still. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, that "This death I am." Still they'll not. And it is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa comes as death, as Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was atheist, did not believe in God, but when God, Nṛsiṁhadeva came, then he was vanquished, everything, within a second. Nirastaḥ. Sa tu te nirastaḥ.



So we have to see like that, the omnipotency, the power of Kṛṣṇa, how it is working. But the difficulty is that we are so foolish, paśyann api na paśyati. Although we are having daily experience, still, we do not see. This is is position.

*dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣu

*(ātma*-sainyeṣv) asatsv api

pramatta tasya nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*We are making our plan that "I shall be happy in this way. I have got this body, so let me make this body very strong, go in the beach and run on the beach to make the body very strong." There are so many other methods to keep the body very strong. Deha, apatya. Maintain the children very nicely. Dehāpatya*-kalatra, wife. Decorate the wife very nicely. "In this way I shall be happy. Let me keep my body fit, let my children grow very nicely, wife be decorated with ornaments, with sari, and I will see and will be happy." No. You cannot remain. Even if you arrange like that, you cannot remain. Kṛṣṇa says, "One day I shall come as death, and not only I shall take you out of the scene, but I shall take away all your possessions." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34].



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, although a child only, but because he is devotee, he experienced. He's experienced that "My father was so strong that even the denizens of heavenly planets, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa and others, they are all afraid of Hiraṇyakaśipu. If by austerity, penance, he got so much power that even the chiefs of the higher planetary system, they were afraid of..." Vijṛmbhita*-bhrū. "Hiraṇyakaśipu will stare his eyes and move his eyebrow. The other demigods, they'll be afraid, such powerful." Ye asmat pituḥ. Ye, the chiefs of the higher planetary system, they have got very long duration of life. In the higher planetary system, everyone has got hundred years maximum period of life, but as I was explaining, everything is relative. The ant's hundred years of life is not equal to my hundred years of life. It is relative. Similarly, the demigods' hundred years of life is not equal to our hundred years of life. Everything relative-speed. Just like when the sputniks... In the beginning the sput, sputniks were in the outer space. Generally, to go around the world, it takes twenty-five hours. But because the speed was greater, so the sputnik surrounded the whole world in one hour, twenty-five minutes.

So in the higher planetary system, the time, everything is relative. This is relative world. So these demigods, their one day equal to our six months. Our six months equal to their one day. Such one day, then thirty days, one month; *then twelve months, one year. Such ten thousand years, their duration of life. Such ten thousand years. So just imagine what is their duration of... Āyuḥ. And so far strength is concerned, that, the Indra is in charge of thunderbolt, so when Indra throws the the thunderbolts to scatter the cloud, we have experience how terrible sound it is. So they have got so long duration of life, strength, administrative power and so many things. Still, they were afraid of Hiraṇyakaśipu, still... In spite of possessing so much big, big possessions. Akhila*-dhiṣṇya-pānām āyuḥ śriyo vibhava. And everyone, icchati, everyone desires. "If I could live so many years like Brahmā"-everyone is aspiring. Therefore they want to be promoted to the higher planetary system for which they perform yajña to be promoted. In this life they struggle, the karmīs. They struggle to become prime minister and Birla and this and that. And again, for the next life, they make provision. Therefore they want to give some charity, yajña-dāna-ta... Yajña, performing yajña. Yajña-dāna-ta... Tapasya. Hiraṇyakaśipu also underwent severe type of austerity, and he got benediction from Brahmā that "You'll not be killed by any man, any demigod, any animal. You'll not be killed in the sky or the water or the land," so many ways. But Brahmā did not give him the benediction of becoming immortal. He first of all wanted, "Make me immortal." So "That is not possible because I am... Myself is not immortal. How can I give you?" So he took indirectly how to become immortal. And by austerity he got all these powers so that even the demigods were afraid of him.

*But Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "Such a big powerful demon as my father, he is also finished in one minute. One minute. And therefore..." Ye asmat pituḥ. The demigods were afraid of, very much afraid. Therefore when he was killed everyone became very pleased. There(fore) Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "Nobody is unhappy on account of death of my father." He said, modeta sādhur api vṛścika*-sarpa-hatyā: [SB 7.9.14] "My father was exactly like scorpion and snake, so killing of such animal, living entity, is pleasing to everyone, even sādhu. Even bhaktas, they also become pleased." They do not want anyone is killed or anyone is done something harmful. Bhakta never desires. But they also take pleasure when the vṛścika, the scorpion, and the snake is killed. You have got experience. There was a snake in my bathroom. So you all sādhus became very alert to kill it, (laughter) although you are sādhu. So that is natural. When there is snake, there is no question of sādhu or asādhu. Kill him. Sādhur api, very nice. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is Vaiṣṇava. He could understand that "Everything in this material world, even the possession of my father, will be finished. There is no doubt. So what is the use of possessing such thing which will be finished?" Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ [Bg. 2.18]. This is intelligent person decision, that "Everything in this material world, this body, or anything in relativity with this body will be finished." Kṛṣṇa says and the devotees know it. Therefore they do not want anything of this material possession. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches us to develop that mentality. "Don't want anything, material possession. It is... However it may be long duration, but it will be finished. But you are eternal. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. You are the owner of this body. You are eternal." So we should be searching after eternal happiness, eternal life, eternal engagement. That is success of life. And if we hanker after temporary things, that is not very good intelligence. Therefore bhakti means when one is convinced that "Anything of this material world cannot make me happy." That is... That conviction is the beginning of pure devotion. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. You have to make zero everything material. That can be possible as we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Then bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. You haven't got to... The jñānīs, yogis, they try to detach from this material things by speculation, by knowledge. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. By speculating, jagan mithyā, "This world is false. Brahman, ātmā, spirit soul is satya, the truth," they do. But it is not possible. Simply by speculating, it is not possible. You have to engage yourself in bhakti.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*These are the processes to reach the platform of bhakti, devotion. But if you do not stick to the devotional platform, you'll fall down. However you may try to become detached from material things, unless you are fully engaged in bhakti, then by bhakti you'll be able to realize God realization. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Simply by bhakti one can understand. And as soon as one understands Kṛṣṇa, then viraktir anyatra syat. Then you'll be detached. Yad avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravinde nava-nava-dhāma... When our pleasure exchange will be done between Kṛṣṇa and ourself, then we shall be detached. Otherwise not. Otherwise it is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14].



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is realizing that anything, material possession, it has no value. It may have some value, temporary, but there is risk also. For some temporary enjoyment, there is so many risk. The enjoyment... The highest enjoyment in the material world is sex. So for some temporary happiness we may enjoy sex, but there are many, what is called, after results. That is not very happy. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. After result is very bad. Either illicit sex or legal sex, the after result is not good. There are so many aftereffects. Even if you live... Of course, that is the Vedic training, that dharmāviruddha-kāmaḥ, sex life not against Vedic injunction. Vedic injunction is that "Do not waste your semina unnecessarily. Only you have sex life for begetting nice children, good population," that much order. So even it is done according to the Vedic principle, still, there are so many sufferings*-you have to take care of the children; you have to educate them; you have to see that they are well raised. So many. So that is also botheration. But if you can remain brahmacārī, oh, you avoid this botheration.

Devotees: Jaya! Jaya Prabhupāda!



*Prabhupāda: So tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ [SB 7.9.45]. Either illicit sex or legal sex, there are many, many sufferings. But those who are kṛpaṇa, miser... Miser means one who cannot use the benefit he has got, this human form of life. They know there are so many aftereffects. Na tṛpyanti. They are not satisfied. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta-dhīraḥ.



So the whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to become dhīra, selflessness. Then life is successful. And anyway, don't be involved, entangled, with these material things. There are... This morning we were calculating that there are... As many atoms, so many living entities are also there. Sāṅkhya, saṅkhyatanam, the word. Sāṅkhya. Sāṅkhya means number. As many numbers of atoms are there, so many number of living entities are there, and there is struggle here. So in this human life the chance is how to get out of this material atomic combination and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the chance. So we have to follow the examples of Prahlāda Mahārāja, and there are... He's mahājana. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Let us try to follow Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction and make our life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760302SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.24

-

Māyāpur, March 2, 1976



*Dayānanda: "My dear Lord, now I am completely experienced about worldly opulences enjoyed by all the living entities beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the ant, the so*-called mystic power and other material enjoyments like long duration of life, etc. Being completely experienced in them I do not wish to possess them. My dear Lord, therefore I request You to get me in touch with Your pure devotee and the service of him as sincere servant."



Prabhupāda:



*tasmād amūs tanu*-bhṛtām aham āśiṣo 'jña

āyuḥ śriyaṁ vibhavam aindriyam āviriñcyāt

necchāmi te vilulitān uruvikrameṇa

*kālātmanopanaya māṁ nija*-bhṛtya-pārśvam

[SB 7.9.24]



*This is intelligence. The karmīs, they are trying to enjoy life by increasing the duration of life. The modern scientists, they are trying that there will be no more death. They think like that foolishly, that by scientific methods, the duration of life will be increased. Everyone is trying that. Nobody wants to become old. If you ask any old man, "What is your age?" he'll decrease it. He'll say... He is eighty years old, he'll say, "I am sixty years" or "sixty*-five." That means he wants to live for long duration of life. That is the intention. Nobody wants to die. But still... They cannot do anything. Still, they are trying. One Marwari gentleman, at the age of seventy or eighty years old, he went to somewhere in Germany for undergoing surgical operation of the gland so that he can continue his sex life. Many monkeys are exported from India to Western countries for taking away the sexual glands, they know, hormone or something like, and replace it to man so that in old age they can enjoy sex. Perhaps you know all these things. So this attempt is going on, how to keep young and how to enjoy life. But nature will not allow. You may try your best. Nature's law is there. They forget that. And nature will not allow us to live here or to remain as young for all the years of life. It is not possible. But they're trying for that.



*In this way, when one is experienced that these things are not possible, that is knowledge. We cannot increase our duration of life. We cannot increase our vitality of life. We cannot increase even our opulence than what we are destined to enjoy. Everyone... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Just like here it is said, vibhavam aindriyam āviriñcyāt. Viriñci means Lord Brahmā. So beginning from Brahmā... "A." "A," this word, is used, this affix is used, with this meaning of beginning. So here in this material world Brahmā is also a materialist, Brahmā, what to speak of ourselves, Brahmā, who is directly appointed the creator of this universe by the grace of God. Why he is in this material world? Because he has got some desire that "I shall be the master of a brahmāṇḍa." Just like everyone is trying to become the master of his house or the society or the community or the country. Just like in your country so many people are trying to become the President. Everywhere, everyone is trying to become master. It doesn't matter it is a small circle or big circle. This is material disease. So Brahmā is also trying to become the master of this universe. The same mentality is there. Hiraṇyakaśipu underwent severe penances. Why? To become the master of the world. This is the material disease. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga-vāñchā kare. So this bhoga-vāñchā are different degrees. One man is satisfied having a family, three, four men. He thinks, "I have become master." But other is not satisfied. Other wants, "No, no. Why a family? I must be master of a society or a community or a nation." So Brahmā is also the same thing, same degree*-not same degree; *different degree*-but the desire is how to become master. That disease is there. We are trying to be... Disease is disease. That...

*Some of you have seen that my friend, Dr. Bose. I have said many times that when he was student, so one professor, he-in those days medical professors were Englishmen*-he said in the class that "In our country, seventy-five percent of the students, they are infected with syphilis." So this doctor, he was a student. He said in the class, "Oh, horrible." So that professor said, "Why you are saying "horrible"? In your country eighty percent, ninety percent, they are infected with malaria, and they are in syphilis. So what is the difference? Why you make...? As a medical man, why should you make difference that 'This disease is better than that disease'? Disease is disease." Actually that is the fact. You say that "We are suffering from malaria. It is better than to suffer from syphilis." No. Disease is disease. Similarly, either Brahmā or the ant, the disease is how to become master. This is the disease. Therefore, to cure this disease, Kṛṣṇa comes to cure this disease, to say plainly, "Rascal, you are not master; you are servant. Surrender unto Me." This is the cure of disease. If one agrees that "No more," āra nāre bapa (?), "No more trying for becoming master," that is the cure of disease.

*Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, nija bhṛtya*-pārśvam: [SB 7.9.24] "Engage me as the servant of Your servant." The same thing Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-anudāsaḥ. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we have to give up this nonsense idea of becoming master. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to learn how to become servant. Not only servant, servant of the servant, servant of the... That is cure [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "So I have understood all this nonsense of becoming master. My father also tried to become master. So this knowledge, now I am perfect. There is no use of becoming master. Better, if You kindly want to give me some benediction, kindly make me the servant of Your servant." This is benediction. So one who has learned to become the servant of Kṛṣṇa's servant, he is perfect. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. A servant has to tolerate. Tolerate. Servant, sometimes master orders so many things, so he becomes disturbed. But still, he has to execute and tolerate. That is perfection. Here in India still, when a person goes to marry, so his... This is a custom. His mothers ask the bridegroom, "My dear son, where you are going?" He replies, "Mother, I am going to bring one maidservant for you." This is the system. "Mother, I am going to bring one maidservant for you." That means "My wife, your daughter-in-law, will serve you as your maidservant." This is Vedic civilization.

When Kṛṣṇa with His sixteen thousand wives went to Hastināpura, so Draupadī... It is natural between woman and woman, they talk about their husband. That is natural. So Draupadī was inquiring from each and every wife of Kṛṣṇa. Not all of them. It is impossible, sixteen thousand. At least the principal queens, beginning from... What is the end called?(?) Rukmiṇī, yes. So every one of them were describing their marriage ceremony, that "My..." Rukmiṇī explained that "My father wanted to hand over me to Kṛṣṇa, but my elder brother, he did not agree. He wanted to get me married with Śiśupala. So I did not like this idea. I wrote Kṛṣṇa a private letter, that 'I have dedicated my life to You, but this is the situation. Please come and kidnap me.' So in this way Kṛṣṇa kidnapped me and made me His maidservant." The queen's daughter, king's daughter... Everyone of them were king's daughter. They were not ordinary person daughter. But they wanted to become maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the idea, to become servant and to become maidservant. This is ideal of human civilization. The every woman should try to become maidservant of her husband, and every man should try to become the hundred times servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is Indian civilization, not that "Husband and wife, we are equal rights." That, in Europe, America, the movement is going on, "Equal rights." That is not Vedic civilization. Vedic civilization is the husband should be a sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the wife should be a sincere maidservant of the husband.

*Therefore here it is said, upanaya māṁ nija*-bhṛtya-pārśvam [SB 7.9.24]. This is the best association. When Nārada Muni is describing how the man should behave, how the woman should behave... We are discussing now in our tape dictaphone. You'll hear that. That there is no such thing to become master. It is useless. You cannot become master. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. You cannot become master. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Either man or woman, everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. We have to be trained up in that platform, how to become the best servant, not only servant directly, but servants, of the servant. This is called paramparā servant. My spiritual master is the servant of his spiritual master, and I am also servant of my spiritual master. Similarly, we think "servant of the servant." There is no question of becoming... This is material disease [Cc. Madhya 13.80].

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kāre

pāsate māyā tāre jāpatīyā dhāre



*As soon as we become puffed up-"Now I shall become master. I shall be simply giving order. I shall not follow anyone"*-that is māyā.



*So that disease is going on beginning from Brahmā down to the ant. Prahlāda Mahārāja has understood this so*-called false prestigious position of becoming a master. He says that "I am quite aware of this false thing. Kindly engage me..." Nija-bhṛtya-pārśvam. Nija-bhṛtya-pārśvam means just like apprentice. Apprentice, one apprentice is engaged to one expert man. By and by, the apprentice learns how to do the things. Therefore he says, nija-bhṛtya-pārśvam. "Not that immediately I become very expert servant, but let me..." Our this institution is for that purpose. If somebody comes here, the free hotel and free sleeping accommodation, then his coming to this association is useless. He must learn how to serve. Nija-bhṛtya-pārśvam. Those who are serving, the... One should learn from him how he's serving twenty-four hours; *then our joining this institution will be successful. And if we take it that "Here is an institution where we can have free hotel, free living and free sense gratification," then the whole institution will be spoiled. Be careful. All the GBC's, they should be careful that this mentality may not increase. Everyone should be very eager to serve, to learn how to serve. Nija*-bhṛtya-pārśvam, Then life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760304SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.26

-

Māyāpur, March 4, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Translation: "O my Lord, O Supreme, what is my position because I am born in a family which is full of the hellish material qualities of passion and ignorance? And what to speak of Your causeless mercy, which was never offered even to Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva and the goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī, because You never put Your lotus hand upon their heads, but You have done so on my head."



Prabhupāda:



*kvāhaṁ rajaḥ*-prabhava īśa tamo 'dhike 'smin

*jātaḥ suretara*-kule kva tavānukampā

na brahmaṇo na tu bhavasya na vai ramāyā

*yan me 'rpitaḥ śirasi padma*-karaḥ prasādaḥ

[SB 7.9.26]



*This is the position. Prahlāda Mahārāja, humbly submitting, because he is Vaiṣṇava, that "What is my position? My position is that I am born of rajas*-tamo-guṇa." This birth takes place according to quality we acquire. Just like I was rebuking that toilet. This is so nasty, tamo-guṇa, and if I have no response to such tamo-guṇa place, that means I am also of that quality. Just like fire and fire, there is no reaction, but in fire and water there is reaction. Between fire and fire there is no reaction, but fire and water there is reaction. Similarly, sattva-guṇa-sattva-guṇa, there is no reaction. Tamo-guṇa-tamo-guṇa there is no reaction. It is... In English it is called incompatible. When different qualities, there is reaction, chemical reaction, acid and alkaline. Acid and acid, you mix; *there is no reaction. But acid and alkaline, if you mix, there will be effervescence immediately. So kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. If one is developing tamo-guṇa, then, if he becomes, he becomes a pig next life, there is no reaction. He'll be very glad that "I am pig," "I am dog." There is no reaction. But if one is sattva-guṇa, then he cannot tolerate. Immediately obnoxious: "Oh, such a nasty condition." So I am very sorry there was no reaction in such nasty toilet room. And you are getting sacred thread, the quality of brāhmaṇa, sattva-guṇa. It is very regrettable. Nobody reacted.



So this is the position, that unless we...

*tadā rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ

*kāma*-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

[SB 1.2.19]



*We have to curb down these rago*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa; *otherwise there is no improvement. If a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is found, no reaction in rajo*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, then he's a dull stone. It is not improving. It is simply showbottle. So showbottle will not act help, Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. This prescription is there. If one develops Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is to be understood that he has surpassed sattva-guṇa, the brahminical qualification. Why we offer sacred thread to a person who is coming from very, very low family? Because it is to be understood by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, by following the regulative principle, he has already come to the platform of sattva-guṇa. But if it is a false thing, there is no need of second initiation. There must be. One must come. This, our process, is "Don't do this. Do this: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra sixteen rounds, and don't do this-no illicit sex, no meat-eating." That means he's becoming purified. He's becoming purified from the rotten condition of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. But if he does not, then there should be no second initiation. This should be the rule.



*So, so Prahlāda Mahārāja is claiming. He's not neither in rajo*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa. He's Vaiṣṇava; *he's transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. He's on the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, on the spiritual platform. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa touching? Kṛṣṇa is paraṁ-pavitraḥ. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. He cannot touch a rajas-tamas-bhava. No. That is not possible. When Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva touched his head, either by His touching he's already purified, or because he's purified, therefore Lord touched his head. This is the conclusion. So he is purified, but as a Vaiṣṇava, he is placing himself in the platform of rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ [SB 1.2.19]. The whole world, at least in this age, Kali-yuga, these two qualities, mostly tamo-guṇa, and little rajo-guṇa, that's all, but no sattva-guṇa. No sattva-guṇa. Therefore people cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They cannot understand. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ, ceta etair anāviddha. Therefore we have to purify ourself. The prescription is there, very simple thing, to become purified, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If we simply recite all these mantras... The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā, all these ślokas, they're all mantras, just like as good as Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. There is no difference. So if we hear... That is the prescription given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and we are trying to introduce this. Our so many centers, we are inviting people in so many ways so that they can hear. This class is meant for that. It is not that everyone will understand each word, but simply if he hears, it will be beneficial, the mantra. Simply if one hears Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting, he'll be purified. If he hears this mantra, a verse from Bhagavad-gītā, a verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, attentively, even he does not understand the meaning, the purport, still, he'll get benefit. That is the way. So we must hear.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is saying, rajaḥ-prabhava: "My dear Lord, Īśa, my, this body, I have got this body from father and mother. They belong to the low-grade family." Suretara. Sura itara. Sura means high-class family, demigods, brāhmaṇa. That is called sura. And itara means low grade. So suretara-kule: "Because I am born... because everything is being done very perfectly by the laws of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti, nature, is working. If you develop a kind of quality... There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if you develop sattva-guṇa, then your body gradually will be sattva-guṇa-ized. Sattva-guṇa, the goodness... The body will be purified and become good. Good, bad, and via media, three kinds. So that is the process. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means everything is being gradually developed into goodness. And at last, to surpass goodness... Here in this material world the goodness may be contaminated with the other qualities, but in the spiritual world it is so good... It is called śuddha-sattva. There is no contamination, there is no tinge of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. That is spiritual quality. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be possible in perfectness when we are above the quality of goodness. Above. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. One who has surpassed the three qualities and has come to the spiritual platform, then it is called cinmaya. Cit means spiritual, and māyā... These word, mayāt-pratyaya, these are used when it is in great extent, in large quality. That is mayāt. And vikārāt. Vikāra means transformed. Just like gold. Pure gold, you transform into a finger ring*-this is also gold. This is called vikārārthe. Gold has become now a ring. And another meaning is that suppose it is made of iron or other base metal, but it is covered with gold, large quantity. That is called adhikārthe because a quantity of gold is there. That is not all gold, but there is gold, covered. So in two meanings, the mayāt-pratyaya is there. So similarly, cinmaya. Cinmaya means if you cultivate spiritual knowledge in large quantity, then your body is no more material. It is spiritualized. Cinmaya. Therefore great saintly person's body, after demise it is not burned; *it is buried, samādhi, because it is cinmaya. So adikārthe mayāt*-pratyaya and vikārārthe... So a Vaiṣṇava, his body is cinmaya, is cinmaya body.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "My body is in large quantity this rajo*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So it is not possible for me to approach You, My Lord. Because You are śuddha-sattva and I am in the material contamination, how it is possible that You shall touch my head? It is simply Your causeless mercy." This is appreciation. "Otherwise how it is possible? You cannot touch this nasty quality of rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. My body is made by my father and mother. They belong to the nasty rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa quality. So it is not possible that You'll touch my body, but You have done it. You have placed Your lotus hand on my head. It is simply Your causeless mercy. Otherwise I am not fit for this. So, and I... You are so merciful that this mercy You did not offer to Lord Brahmā even." Brahmā is supposed to be the supreme creature within this material world, Brahmā. He's the first created creature, and he's called Svayambhū. He's not born of any material father and mother but directly came through the lotus stem which is growing from the navel of Viṣṇu. So he's not ordinary person. He's not ordinary person. He's not... Therefore he's known as Svayambhū. We are not svayambhū. We are begotten by father and grown up by mother. We are not self-sufficient. But Brahmā is called Svayambhū because he is not born of any material father and mother. So "He did not get this mercy. Although Brahmā's position is so exalted, still, my Lord, he did not get this opportunity."

*Na brahmaṇo na tu bhavasya. Bhava means Lord Śiva. Lord Śiva's position is also very exalted, more than Brahmā. Lord Śiva is in between Lord Viṣṇu and living entity. We are living entity. So Lord Śiva is not ordinary living entity. Brahmā is ordinary living entity, but very pious, exalted. But Lord Śiva is more than Brahmā. "So he also could not get this mercy." Na vai ramāyā. Ramāyā means Lakṣmī, the goddess of fortune. (S)he always remains with Nārāyaṇa. She is not... She's... Her position is more than Lord Brahmā or Lord Śiva. She is Nārāyaṇa in a different energy only. Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir āhlādini śaktiḥ. She is the manifestation of the pleasure potency of the Lord. The Lord has got unlimited potencies, parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. So one of the potency is Rādhārāṇī or Lakṣmī or Sītā. They are equal. There is no difference. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir āhlādini-śaktir asmāt. These loving affairs between Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa and Lakṣmī or Sītā and Rāma, they are both of them the same. One is potency; *another is potent. That is the difference, potent and potency. So "Such Ramā, the goddess of fortune, she also could not get this compassionate mercy or causeless mercy." So he's feeling proud that "You are so affectionate to Your devotee." Therefore Lord's name is bhakta*-vatsala. He can offer to His bhakta any position, more than Himself. Just like mother Yaśodā. She is bhakta, and Lord has given her the position for punishing Him. Mother Yaśodā is threatening Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, You were very naughty. Now I shall bind You." So Kṛṣṇa, out of being afraid, was crying. So Kṛṣṇa has given the position to the bhakta that "You chastise Me. I'll accept it." This is bhakta's position. This is Kṛṣṇa's causeless mercy. He can do that.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is appreciating that "I am worthless. I have no qualification." That should be the position of the bhaktas always. Never we should think that "I have become a big bhakta." No. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta author says humbly, puriṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha: [Cc. Ādi 5.205] "I am lower than the worm in the stool." Does it mean that he is actually? No. But he's feeling like that. An advanced devotee, they're always so humble and meek, they always think of himself as worthless. And still, the Lord is so kind and favorable. That is His causeless mercy, that "I am not qualified, I am not worthy of this facility." This is the humbleness. Kvāhaṁ rajaḥ-prabhava īśa tamo 'dhike 'smin. "Not only I am influenced by rajo-guṇa, but mostly, seventy-five percent, I am infested with tamo-guṇa." Adhika. Akhika means "in larger quantity." And there is no question of sattva-guṇa. Adhika 'smin jātaḥ sure... "Otherwise why I am born in this family?" That is the test. Now they are... By force they are trying to be equal. Of course, in this age everyone is śūdra. That is an... Otherwise lowborn means this differentiation of different low qualities. By nature it will give. I have several times explained that as you infect a certain type of contaminous disease, you get that, you suffer from that. So the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, then antaja, (?) caṇḍāla, mean, so many, kirāta, hūṇa, pulinda, pulkaśā, abhīra, śumbha-so many, low-grade, low-grade, low-grade, low-grade, low-grade. Then why this low-grade birth? That is due to this kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it says. It is due to our association with low-grade qualities.

*Therefore the human life should be very cautious that we may not be contaminated by low*-grade qualities. There are so many rules and regulations, but it is very very difficult to follow. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, just to remain purified, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. You cannot... Otherwise you cannot purify. So kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. We should always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then we'll gradually be spiritualized, cinmaya, spiritualized. Then our life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760305SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.27

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Māyāpur, March 5, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Like the ordinary living entity, my Lord, You have no such discrimination, thinking like 'He is my friend; he is my enemy; he is favorable; he is unfavorable.' Such conception of low grade and high grade You have not got. But according to one's gradation of service, You offer them benediction exactly like the desire tree offers fruits according to the desire of the person. The desire tree has no distinction of low grade and high grade position of the beggar."



Prabhupāda:



*naiṣā parāvara*-matir bhavato nanu syāt

*jantor yathātmā*-suhṛdo jagatas tathāpi

saṁsevayā surataror iva te prasādaḥ

sevānurūpam udayo na parāvaratvam

[SB 7.9.27]



It is very important verse. Discrimination. Sometimes the atheist class demons, they say, "Why God has made somebody so opulent and why somebody so poor?" This is the general question. Perhaps you have met, eh? So that is being solved. Parāvaratvam. Para means better, and apara means inferior. Superior and inferior. There are two things, superior and inferior, everywhere, but in the eyes of God, Kṛṣṇa, there is no such thing, superior or inferior. He's superior, and everything is superior. This should be understood. There is no such discrimination that "Here is a devotee, so he's superior, and here is a nondevotee, he's inferior." That is not God's discrimination. That is your discrimination. If you like to remain as inferior, you can remain. God has given you independence. And if you like to become superior, you can become superior. It is not God's discrimination; it is your discrimination. Mind this verse very carefully. Kṛṣṇa says that "You fully become dependent upon Me, and I shall give you full protection." This is superiority. As soon as I fully surrender to the supreme superior, Kṛṣṇa, then my position is immediately superior. And if I don't do that, then I remain inferior.



*There is a verse in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham: [Bg. 4.11] "It is up to you to... If you surrender cent percent, then I am also fully cent percent for you." But if you have got discrimination-"Certain percentage for my wife, certain percentage for my children, certain percentage for my country, certain percent...," so on, so on, so on, so on, ultimately, "Zero for God"-then God is also zero. It is up to you. But if you take God-"You are my everything"-then He is also for you, everything. It is up to you. Parāvaratvam. He does not discriminate. You discriminate. There are many persons, they come to Vṛndāvana, and whatever they have earned throughout the whole life, so they give everything to the wife and children and make contract that "I am going to Vṛndāvana. You send me at least two hundred rupees for my expenditure." "And what about two lakhs and crores?" "Oh, that is yours. The two lakhs and crores, what I have earned, that is for you, my dear children, my dear wife, and you give me two hundred for God. So I am going to Vṛndāvana." So Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent: "All right, I am also for you two hundred. (laughter) I am also for you two hundred." Ye yathā mām... This is the meaning, real meaning. Ye yathā māṁ prapadya... Kṛṣṇa is for you. It is called... What is called the exact word? Responsive cooperation. "If you have surrendered to Me cent percent, then I respond cent percent. If you have surrendered twenty-five percent, then I respond twenty-five percent." This is the position.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja knows it, that naiṣā parāvara*-matir bhavato: "You have no such thing as discriminating." So one may say that "I may... I am foolish, I may not surrender to Kṛṣṇa cent percent, but why He is not kind cent percent?" So that is Kṛṣṇa's discrimination. Why He should? He can... He can become cent percent, but He does not do so. That means Kṛṣṇa is sentient; *He is not impersonal. Don't think that whatever you are doing, Kṛṣṇa cannot see. In the Deity room, if you think that "This Deity is made of brass. Whatever nonsense I can do, He does not see," no, He can see everything. Añgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti. He sees. You rascal, you do not know how Kṛṣṇa sees. You think that "He has these brass-made eyes. He cannot see. I can do all nonsense with..." No. That is not. He can see everything. Paśyanti pānti. Añgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. He can see with His lotus feet. He can see with His hand. We can see simply with our eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can see with all the... Añgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. You have seen. Kṛṣṇa is playing the flute. The fingers are open. A finger touching: "What you are doing?" We do not know the fingers can also see. But this is absolute. Kṛṣṇa can use His any energy, any power, any part of the body, for anything else. This is Kṛṣṇa. Añgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti.

*So Kṛṣṇa can see within our mind how much we are surrendered and how much we are after material enjoyment. Therefore the best thing is we have to make zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Śūnyam means zero. Unless we make everything zero, simply Kṛṣṇa fact... Kṛṣṇa is only fact, and everything zero. Without Kṛṣṇa, everything zero. Just like one is one and, zero is zero, but when zero is added with one, it becomes ten immediately, ten times, similarly, this material world is zero, and Kṛṣṇa is one. If you want to enjoy the material world by your own effort, it will always prove zero. You'll never be satisfied. But you add this zero by the side of Kṛṣṇa*-you enjoy like anything, ten times. Ten times. With zero, it is zero, But when it is added with Kṛṣṇa, it is ten times. Just see practically. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started with forty rupees. Now that forty rupees or something added with Kṛṣṇa, it has become forty crores. You see practically. When I started for your country, I came to Māyāpur. I offered my obeisances to my spiritual master, then I went. At that time I had no money even to purchase the ticket. And after that, I have come with forty crores. This is the secret. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. If you fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is there. You have to learn how to take from Kṛṣṇa. Of course, a devotee is never desirous to take anything from Kṛṣṇa. He wants to give only. This is pure devotee. A pure devotee wants, "Kṛṣṇa, whatever little I have got, You take it, everything." And Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, because you have given your everything, even up to your life, I'll also give you My everything to you." This is Kṛṣṇa.

*So Kṛṣṇa has no discrimination, but it is up to us to know how to take from Kṛṣṇa. Just like the example is given here that saṁsevayā surataror iva. Surataror iva. Surataroḥ means the desire tree. It is described in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, desire tree. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29]. That is kalpa-vṛkṣa. Kalpa-vṛkṣa means... You have no experience. We have no experience. Kalpa-vṛkṣa, there is in the higher planetary system and especially in the Vaikuṇṭha world. There are, trees are kalpa-vṛkṣa, because everything is spiritual; *nothing is dead. Here you can take some fruits or flower from a particular tree, but there, if you like, you ask kachori and samosa from a tree*-you get. But we have no idea what is surataroḥ, what is kalpa-vṛkṣa. Whatever you desire, you'll get it. Surabhīh, surabhīr abhipāl... The cows are surabhī. Here you have got limitation. You can milk morning and evening to a certain extent, but there the cows are surabhī. Surabhī means you can milk as many times as you like, and as much milk as you want, you can take it. But these things are there. But we have no information. We are struggling here. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Because we are fools and rascals, we are trying to make some adjustment here. That is not possible. It is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This is māyā. We are trying to be happy in this material... It will never be possible. But these fools and rascals, they do not know. They are making big, big plans how to become happy, how to become, "In our country, in our home, in our society, in our family," and so on, so on, so on. This means we are simply becoming entangled. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam, ahaṁ moha [SB 5.5.8], illusion. It will never be possible. Therefore, the conclusion is, we should fully surrender, cent percent to Kṛṣṇa, and then we become happy. Saṁsevayā surataror iva te prasādaḥ.

*The example is: just like the desire tree, kalpa*-vṛkṣa. It can fulfill any desire, any desire. We have got so many desires. Kṛṣṇa can fulfill all the desires. Please surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣaḥ

[SB 2.3.10]



*We go here and there for fulfilling our desire, but if we are fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, all our desires will be fulfilled sitting at home. We haven't got to go here and there. Therefore it is said, surataror iva te prasādaḥ. And how it is? Sevānurūpa. This is... This is the secret. If you are engaged cent percent in service, sevānu..., anurūpam. It is proportion to your service. You cannot order Kṛṣṇa, "Give me this." That is not possible. He is not your servant. Kṛṣṇa cannot become anyone's servant, "Kṛṣṇa, give me this, give me that." Kṛṣṇa's not your servant. He's not order*-supplier. His order you should supply. Then you can take. You don't make Kṛṣṇa your order supplier. That is mistake. Therefore anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], pure devotion means first of all you learn not to order Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, give me this, give me that, give me that." Don't bother Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of spiritual life. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. You prepare to carry out every order of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is spiritual life. Don't make Kṛṣṇa your order-supplier. You become order-supplier of Kṛṣṇa.



Therefore it is said that sevānurūpa. If you learn how to give service to Kṛṣṇa cent percent, then you get everything, everything, without asking. Kṛṣṇa knows everything, what is required for you. Just like a father knows what is the necessity of the child. The child never begs, "Father, give me this, give me that." No. He's simply dependent on parents. The parent knows. Similarly, if we become cent percent dependent and serve Him faithfully under His order or His representative's order, then the success is sure. Sevānurūpa. Sevānurūpam udayo. Udayo: "It becomes manifest." Just like the sun is rising in the sky. It is not by your order. It is rising by his own way. You cannot say that "My dear sun, please immediately come to the medium (meridian?) and make it noon." "No, I am not your servant. I shall rise according to my principle." So similarly, if you cannot order even the sun, a creation of God, or anything according to your order, then how you can order Kṛṣṇa? This is foolishness. Don't order Kṛṣṇa. Try to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be successful. Sevānurūpam udayo na parāvaratvam. Kṛṣṇa has no discrimination that you are inferior; therefore His favor is not bestowed upon you. This is foolishness. Don't become envious of somebody who is getting Kṛṣṇa's favor. Kṛṣṇa is favoring him because he has served. You serve; you'll get favor. This is God. Kṛṣṇa has no discrimination that one is getting more opulence, more success; another is rotting. That is not Kṛṣṇa's; it is your discrimination. You wanted some rotten things; *you get it. You wanted some stone and wood, you take it. But if somebody wanted to serve-"I have given Him service"*-all right, you serve. This is parāvara... Not parāvaratvam, it is foolishness, that "Kṛṣṇa has favored him so much. I not favored." You become just eligible to be favored, then you'll be favored. This is the process. Na parāvaratvam. He has no such discrimination. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234].

Therefore the principle is sevānurūpam. Always remember this, as it is said here, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prasāda... Kṛṣṇa is always ready to give you prasāda, all favor. Why not? Without doing something, you are getting so much favor. Without Kṛṣṇa's favor you cannot live even for a moment. He's so kind. Even the cats and dogs, they are also getting Kṛṣṇa's favor. Eko hi vidadhāti bahūnāṁ kāmān. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām... Eh? Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He is supplying stool to the hog because he wants to eat it. He wants to eat. He has desire: "Give me facility for eating stool." "Give me favor, facility, to drink fresh blood." "All right, you take the suitable body. You want fresh blood? I'll... You get the tiger's body, the nails and the claws and the teeth. As soon as touches you, immediately all blood sucking." So He has delivered: "All right, take this facility." But what is the advantage of this facility? The facility is... You know. The tigers, they do not get food every day. He has got the facility to suck blood, but... All the implements he has got, but there is no chance. Because every animal knows, "In that part of the forest there is tiger," they do not go, so he starves. He starves. You'll find so many rich men, they have got enough money, but they cannot eat more. They cannot eat more.

So this kind of facilities, it is our foolishness. It is not facility. That is punishment. Real facility is how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is real facility. So we should always ask, beg. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction.

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



This facility we should always ask: "Kṛṣṇa, I don't want any facility of this material world. I am not worth to serve You; still, I am begging. Give me this facility so that I can get the chance to serve You." That is life's success.



Thank you very much. (end)



760306SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.28

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Māyāpur, March 6, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, on account of my association with material desires one after another, gradually I have now fallen in the blind well full of snakes. But Your servant Nārada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore my first duty is to serve him. And how can I leave it?"



Prabhupāda:



*evaṁ janaṁ nipatitaṁ prabhavāhi*-kūpe

kāmābhikāmam anu yaḥ prapatan prasaṅgāt

krtvātmasāt surarṣiṇā bhagavān gṛhītaḥ

*so 'haṁ kathaṁ nu visṛje tava bhṛtya*-sevām

[SB 7.9.28]



*So this is Vaiṣṇava paddhati. Tava bhṛtya*-sevām. Vaiṣṇava does not approach Kṛṣṇa directly. That is not Vaiṣṇava. This is impudency. You cannot approach Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. This is the process. You have to... As you have to receive the perfect knowledge by the paramparā system-imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]-similarly, you have to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead through the paramparā system.



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*We have to approach in that way. Śrī*-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭam. The Gosvāmīs, they established the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore we have to receive the mercy of the six Gosvāmīs, and we have to receive the mercy of the six Gosvāmīs through my spiritual master. Bhṛtyasya bhṛtyaḥ. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, rūpa-raghunātha pade, haibe ākuti, kabe hāma bujhabo, śrī yugala-pīriti. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he is also ācārya. He is speaking, "When I shall be eager to serve the lotus feet of Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī," rūpa-raghunātha-pade, "six Gosvāmīs, beginning from Rūpa Gosvāmī to Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī?" Śrī-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha, śrī-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha.



*So we have to go through the Gosvāmīs and the paramparā system. Then we can understand. Rūpa-raghunātha pade, haibe ākuti, kabe hāma bujhabo, śrī yugala-pīriti. Generally some professional men, they chant Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir. That is not the way. You cannot understand the loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa without understanding the path given by the Gosvāmīs. If you surpass in this way, avoid the way of approaching Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa by reading Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, The Nectar of Devotion, the Teachings of Lord Caitanya-all of a sudden if you become an upstart to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa love-then you'll misunderstand. That is the way. And people, they try to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa love affairs, jumping all of a sudden. This is not the way. One should be very much eager to understand. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir āhlādini śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau, śrī caitanya-prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ rādhā-kṛṣṇa-bhāva-dyuti. There is a... This is the verse by Jīva Gosvāmī that "Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa is one. Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa." Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate sva-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being. When He wants to enjoy pleasure, no material things can supply that. That is not possible. He expands His own energy, and by His own energy He gets the pleasure. So Rādhārāṇī is not ordinary, as the sahajiyās, those who take Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa love affair very easily... No. Then you'll misunderstand. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir āhlādini śaktiḥ. It is the expansion of pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa.

*So this science one has to learn from the authorities, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī and others. Then it is possible to understand what is loving affairs of Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa.

*rūpa*-raghunātha pade rahu mora āśa

prārthanā koroye sadā narottamo dāsa



*We should not jump over. There are so many literatures. They place Rādhārāṇī as ordinary baladar(?) woman because they do not understand. So therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī has forbidden strictly that avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam: "Don't hear from the professional men who are not situated in the Vaiṣṇava behavior." One must be..., behavior in Vaiṣṇava. Sadācāra-sampannaḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has warned that "Don't mix it with Vaiṣṇava who is not well trained up, well behaved." You can offer him respect. A Vaiṣṇava offers respect even to the ant. That is another thing. But he has warned, "Don't mix with them, these professional, so-called Vaiṣṇava, sahajiyās." This is warned. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam: "You should not hear." "Eh? Huh? What is the wrong there? The Kṛṣṇa-kathā is there." No, Kṛṣṇa-kathā is there just like milk is there, but if it is touched by the lips of a serpent, it is no more to be taken. It has become poison. Unless one is situated as pure Vaiṣṇava in his dealing, in his behavior, inside and outside, he should not become a preacher because it will not be effective, neither one should hear from such person. But people in general, they can not understand, but those who are preaching, they must be very sincere, the same way. Rūpa-raghunātha pade, haibe ākuti. They should read the literatures, the instruction, just like Upadeśāmṛta, The Nectar of Instruction. We should follow, strictly follow. Then pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. Then you'll be able to preach and make disciples all over the world. This is the injunction. That is called gosvāmī. Don't be cheap preacher, cheap guru. No, no. That is not good. It is not possible.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the mahājana, authorities. How he has gotten this authority? Here it is said, so 'haṁ kathaṁ nu visṛje tava bhṛtya*-sevām. So everyone must have his position by giving service to the spiritual master. And who is spiritual master? Tava bhṛtya, who is a servant of Kṛṣṇa.

*yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo

yasyāprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya **



*Guru is described, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ: ** "By the mercy of guru one can achieve the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Yasya prasāda. Yasya aprasādāt: "If guru is not pleased, then he has no place." Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi.



sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair

uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya **



Why the spiritual master position is so great? Because he is very, very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa; therefore his position is so great.



*So this is the process. Tava bhṛtya*-sevā. We have to... Ādau gurvāśrayam. First beginning of Vaiṣṇava life is to accept guru, spiritual master, ādau gurvāśrayam, then other things. Because who will teach you? So we have to approach a pure Vaiṣṇava as spiritual master, follow his instruction. And what is his instruction? His instruction is as he was instructed by his spiritual master. He does not invent instruction. This is instruction. The pure Vaiṣṇava, he does not invent anything new. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You all, every one of you become guru, everyone." Āmāra ājñāya guru haña tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Wherever you are living, it doesn't require that you have to travel all over the world. If you have no such capacity, it doesn't matter. You remain wherever you are, but you become a guru. "How I become a guru?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Very simple thing. You instruct only what is instructed by Kṛṣṇa. That's all." Don't invent. Don't become overintelligent. Remain a poor fool. Guru more mūrkha dekhi śāsana, korilā śāsana [Cc. Ādi 7.71]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also presenting Himself as a great fool because He says, "My Guru Mahārāja found Me a great fool." He was a fool? He was Kṛṣṇa Himself. But one should remain always a fool before Guru Mahārāja. That is progress. If he thinks, "I know more than my Guru Mahārāja," then he's fallen. Yasyāprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. Then he is finished. So we should always remain a fool before the spiritual master, even though one is incarnation, not that "I am incarnation; *therefore I have become God." No. Even if you are incarnation, you should remain a humble servant. That is that, tava bhṛtya*-sevām. Prahlāda Mahārāja is... Daityānāṁ prahlādo 'smi. The Supreme Personality of Godhead incarnates in different societies, different platforms, and He says, "Amongst the Daityas..." Amongst the Daityas, there are also devotees. So prahlādo 'smi. Prahlāda Mahārāja is saktyāveṣāvatāra, but still, he says that kathāṁ nu visṛje tava bhṛtya-sevām: "How can I give up this service?" Prahlāda Mahārāja does not say, "My Lord, Nṛsiṁhadeva, I am now so competent. Give me Your service directly." No. Tava bhṛtya-sevām: "First of all give me the opportunity to serve Your servant." This is Vaiṣṇavism.

*So why it is required to serve Vaiṣṇava? If you want to get relief from this conditional life, then you have to serve Vaiṣṇavas. Chādiyā vaiṣṇava sevā, nistāra payeche keba. This is the... "Who has got," I mean to say, "liberty from this entanglement of material existence"*-chādiyā vaiṣṇava sevā-"if you do not serve a pure Vaiṣṇava?" Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. This is everywhere. If you want liberation from this material entanglement, then you must take to mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. You must. There is no alternative. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. "If you are actually interested to inquire about the transcendental subject matter, you must accept a guru." Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinam

[Bg. 4.34]



*So these are the ways. You cannot understand by your erudite scholarship what is Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible. Then Kṛṣṇa would have instructed Bhagavad-gītā to..., finding out a very great Vedantist. No. Kṛṣṇa found Arjuna. What was Arjuna? Arjuna was a gṛhastha. Arjuna was a kṣatriya, and although a soldier... A soldier is not expected to become a Vedantist. We recruit soldiers not from the Vedantists' group. One who can fight, one who has got strength*-we recruit soldier. So Arjuna was not very qualified in that way to understand Bhagavad-gītā or instruction, but Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, I will speak, speak to you. This Bhagavad-gītā, the paramparā is lost, so I shall again speak the old thing to you." "Why to me?" Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: [Bg. 4.3] "Because you are My bhakta. You are My priya." So by scholarship one cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. That is not possible. One must become a servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Then one can understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise it (is) not possible.



*So evaṁ janaṁ nipatitaṁ prabhavāhi-kūpe. Ahi kūpa. Ahi means the serpent. So we have got these serpents surrounded by us, surrounded, all round. What are the serpents? The senses. Everyone, we are in the dark well surrounded by serpents, this body. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung this song, śarīra avidyā-jāl, jaḍendriya tāhe kāla. Kāla means serpents, kāla-sarpa. Kāla-sarpa, it can bite at any moment and finish you. We are being bitten every moment. It is Kṛṣṇa's grace that we are living. Otherwise our senses are so dangerous that it can bring me down at any moment, kāla-sarpa. There are many places, kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁstrāyate. One devotee says, "Yes, I am surrounded by kāla-sarpa, the serpent, that's nice, but I can break the teeth." But if kāla-sarpa is the... What is called, that? Fangs? If they are broken-they are taken out*-they are no more dangerous. Dangerous. They are dangerous so long the fangs are there. So protkhāta-daṁstrāyate. Śrī Prabhodānanda Sarasvatī said, kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁstrāyate: "Yes, I have got my kāla-sarpas, but by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, I have broken the fangs, so it is no more fearful." How it is possible? By the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu it is possible. Just like you can break the fangs of the... There are expert snake charmer. Because this poison is required for some medicinal purpose, so they take it out. Then it is useless. But they again grow. The body is so made of the snake, even if you take once the fangs, again it grows. That is stated here, that how it is possible? Kāmābhikāmam anu yaḥ prapatan prasaṅgāt. Once it may be broken, but if you have bad association, then again it will grow. Kāmābhikāmam. One kāma, one lusty desire, produces another lusty desire. In this way, one after another, this is going on. That is the cause of our repeated birth and death. Bhūtva bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. So therefore, if we want to enter into bhakti platform, then we should give up this. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11].

*So "How it can be zero? I am a living being. How it can be zero? I am always thinking, planning. I have got so many desires," they say. One who does not know what is the position of a living being, they say that "Give up desires. Desireless." That is not possible. Desirelessness is not possible. Because I am a living being, I must desire. Therefore desires may be purified. That is wanted. You cannot make the desires zero. That is not possible. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Now our desires are there according to my designated position. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim. Why shall I take Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Because I am designated, I have taken this designation, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." Therefore we cannot take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Oh, this is... Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God. Kṛṣṇa is Indian. Why shall I take Kṛṣṇa?" No. "You have to be desireless" means you have to purify your this false understanding that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Indian," "I am this." This has to be purified. One has to understand that "I am gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa. I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa [Cc. Madhya 13.80]." That is purification. Then desire. Then you'll not desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service. That is perfection. When you come to that platform, that you desire nothing but to serve Kṛṣṇa, always, twenty-four hours, then you are liberated. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Then you become nirmalam, without any material tinge. In that position only, hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. Then... My senses will be there; not that I become senseless nonsense. No. My senses are there. They will act. They'll act for simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So that can be possible when you are trained up by the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not possible.

Thank you very much. (end)



760307SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.29

-

Māyāpur, March 7, 1976



Prabhupāda:



*mat*-prāṇa-rakṣaṇam ananta pitur vadhaś ca

*manye sva*-bhṛtya-ṛṣi-vākyam ṛtaṁ vidhātum

*khaḍgaṁ pragṛhya yad avocad asad*-vidhitsus

*tvām īśvaro mad*-aparo 'vatu kaṁ harāmi

[SB 7.9.29]



*So before Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed by His Lordship Nṛsiṁhadeva, Prahlāda Mahārāja never addressed his father as "father," pituḥ. Now, after his death, he is addressing, pituḥ, "my father." Because before his death he was demon. Everyone knows. But if a demon is killed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he becomes liberated, either demon or anyone. Demons are generally killed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They enter into the impersonal Brahman. Therefore there is a verse-I don't remember exactly now*-that "The monist and the demons, they go to the same place, impersonal Brahman." And what to speak of devotees? Devotees never enter to that impersonal Brahman. Devotees enter directly in the Vaikuṇṭha planet. Mām eti. Mām eti. Kṛṣṇa said, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. If you enter the Vaikuṇṭha planets... There are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and above them there is the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, Kṛṣṇaloka. So in either of them, if you enter, then that is not impersonal. Personal. Impersonal Brahman is outside. Although impersonal Brahman is also spiritual existence, but it is outside the Vaikuṇṭha planets. So the demons and the impersonalists, they cannot enter into the Vaikuṇṭha planet. And because they cannot enter into the Vaikuṇṭha planet, they again fall down, again fall down in this material world. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yusmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Patanty adhaḥ. Adhaḥ means in this material world. Those who are impersonalists, they may enter into the Brahman effulgence, āruhya kṛcchreṇa, with severe execution of penance and austerities. The Māyāvādīs, they perform severe austerity. Those who are actually Brahmavādīs, their mode of life is very, very strict and severe also. So even after severe penances and austerities one enters into the Brahman effulgence, there is no security. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Why they come down? Now, anādṛta-yusmad-aṅghrayaḥ: "Because they did not get the information about Your lotus feet." That means person. When we speak of "feet" or "hand" that means the Supreme Person, a person. But they do not accept the person. That is their difficulty. They'll never accept that the Absolute Truth is person. Therefore they fall down again and again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, mat*-prāṇa-rakṣaṇam ananta pitur vadhaś ca. The two things are there. When Kṛṣṇa incarnates there are two things. What are they? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. Two things. So here two things are being done. One thing is to save Prahlāda Mahārāja, paritrāṇāya sādhunam, and another thing is vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām yuge yuge sambhavāmi. So actually vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, it doesn't require the presence of the Supreme Lord. The nature's arrangement is so strong that anyone can be finished within a second, anyone. There is no need of Kṛṣṇa's taking so much trouble to come here. But He comes especially for deliverance of the devotee, bhakta-vatsala, and side work, to kill the demons. That is not His business. The Māyā, Durgādevī, is sufficiently powerful to kill any demon within a second. There is no difficulty. Simply by ordering Māyā... Or Māyā does not wait the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She can understand what the Lord wants. Simply little indication, she can kill hundreds and thousands of demons in one stroke. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya. She can do that.

*So it is not the business of the Supreme Personality of Godhead to come to take this botheration. But why Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared? He appeared... One thing is that mat*-prāṇa-rakṣaṇam. This is one business. Another business was this. What is that? Sva-bhṛtya-ṛṣi-vākyam ṛtaṁ vidhātum. Sva-bhṛtya. Brahmā is bhṛtya, servant of Kṛṣṇa. So he did something very, I mean to say, obnoxious by offering all the benediction to Hiraṇyakaśipu. He was a very cunning materialist. First of all he asked for becoming immortal, but when he learned that that is not possible, then he thought, "I am very intelligent diplomat. I can screw out my fulfillment of desire in a indirect way." So all these people in this material world, they have got a cheating propensity. Out of four deficiency, one deficiency is cheating. Every wants... One wants to cheat his fellow man, man or beast, everyone. Even the dog, cats, they are also. You know the story. The dog wanted to take another flesh from the mouth of another dog, reflection, and he lost both. So this cheating, this misuse of intelligence, is going on, but that is never successful. It will never be successful because Kṛṣṇa is always more than you. If you are a cheater, but Kṛṣṇa can cheat you more than what you know. That Kṛṣṇa knows. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can be...? "God is great." So if you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, He can cheat you more than what you know. So that is not possible. Therefore this Hiraṇyakaśipu thought himself to be very intelligent and wanted to cheat Kṛṣṇa and His servant, but he was cheated actually.

*Therefore he said that tad*-bhṛtya-ṛṣi-vākyam ṛtaṁ vidhātum. Ṛṣi-vākya. Even the devotee or the servant of Kṛṣṇa says something, even it is wrong, Kṛṣṇa upholds this. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ pranaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. So even it is wrongly done, still, Kṛṣṇa fulfills because He thinks that "My servant has promised; *it must be fulfilled." Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja, in the previous verse he has said, tava bhṛtya*-pārśva. So to serve the servant of Kṛṣṇa is better than to serve directly Kṛṣṇa, because if the servant of Kṛṣṇa promises something, if the servant of Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll take you to Kṛṣṇaloka," you must go there. Even Kṛṣṇa cannot do that. He can... I mean to say that He does not say very easily. But if a servant... Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Therefore our philosophy is to please the servant of God, tad-bhṛtya, bhṛtyasya bhṛtya. Then it is very nice. The success is...

*So here it is said that sva-bhṛtya-ṛṣi-vākyam ṛtaṁ vidhātum. So Brahmā gave him benediction. He asked, "Sir, I'll not die at night." "Yes, that's all right." "I'll not die in daytime." "That's all right." "I'll not die in the sky," "That's all right." "On the land." "That's all right." "On the water." "That's all right." "No animal can kill me." "That's all right." "No man can." "That's all right." So he thought, "Now I am secure. There is no death." But Kṛṣṇa is so intelligent that He killed him not at night, not in day, not in the sky, not on the land, not on the water, not by animal, not by man*-all things, ṛtam, yes, everything kept. Still, he was killed. He was killed in the evening, which you cannot say it is day or night. He was killed on the lap of the Lord. You cannot say it is sky, land or water. He did not kill him with the open weapon, but He killed with His nails. In this way you'll find that He kept everything intact, what benediction was given by Lord Brahmā, ṛtaṁ vidhātum. "Yes." At last, of course, He little chastised Brahmā that "You should not give such benediction in future. This is botheration for Me." (laughter) But still, He kept His servant's promise intact. The demon was also killed, and the promise given by, a benediction given by Brahma, everything... That is the action of the Supreme Personality. In one stroke He is doing so many things. He's saving Prahlāda Mahārāja, He's killing Hiraṇyakaśipu, He's keeping intact the promise of Brahmā-everything. That is God's intelligence. Our intelligence, however diplomat we may be, if we want to do anything, another thing is not managed nicely. But Kṛṣṇa... That is called all potency. When He does something, in a moment He can adjust everything. Even opposite actions, He can adjust. That is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He's called all-powerful. We cannot do that.

*So mat*-prāṇa-rakṣaṇam ananta pitur vadhaś ca manye sva-bhṛtya-ṛṣi-vākyam ṛtaṁ vidhātum: "So Your incarnation is there for fulfilling so many objects. And especially, there was challenge by my father, taking his sword." Khaḍgaṁ pragṛhya yad avocad asad-vidhitsuḥ. Asad-vidhitsuḥ: "I shall kill you." This is asat-vidhitsuḥ, to say like that, "I shall kill you." Nobody can kill anyone. This is asat. "I shall give you. I shall kill you. I shall protect you"-no, you cannot do anything. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau. Nobody can do anything unless it is sanctioned by God. You don't promise anything. Therefore a devotee always says, "If Kṛṣṇa desires, it will be done." That is the fact. That is the fact. So when Hiraṇyakaśipu was very much proud, unnecessarily challenging Prahlāda that "You are not accepting my philosophy that I am God. You are searching after another God. All right, let me kill you and I'll see how your God can give you protection..." That was his challenge. Yes. So Prahlāda Mahārāja knew it, that "Unless Kṛṣṇa desires, you cannot kill me." Therefore it is asat-vidhi. If one is very much proud and challenges the authority of the Supreme, that is asat; *that is not sat. Rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. Prahlāda Mahārāja knew it, that "You may challenge me, but I know you cannot kill me." He was confident devotee. "All right, "I am also challenging. I am standing here. Let me be killed by you." So that is not possible. Asad*-vidhitsus mad-aparo 'vatu kaṁ harāmi. And so it was challenged by the Hiraṇyakaśipu that "You are searching after another God than me. Now I shall kill you. Let me see how another God..." This is demonic. The demonic means atheist and unnecessarily, falsely, very much proud of their knowledge. This is demonic. This morning as I was talking, the so-called scientists, they are falsely proud and challenge, "There is no God. Everything..." That is demonic. So in the Kali-yuga the demonic spirit is very very prominent. Everyone is thinking, "I am God." So it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy to cure all these madmen. Madmen.

*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

māyār grasta jīvera haya se dāsa udaya



*Piśācī, ghost*-haunted. A man is ghost-haunted; *he speaks all nonsense. So in this age, Kali*-yuga, they are mostly like that. They speak all nonsense. So we should be careful not to accept their proposal. We shall stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We shall accept what Kṛṣṇa says and reject everything. Then we'll be saved.



Thank you very much. (end)



760308SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.30

-

Māyāpur, March 8, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Translation: "My dear Lord, You alone manifest Yourself as the entire cosmic manifestation because before the creation of this cosmic manifestation You were existing, and You exist also after the annihilation. Therefore, between the beginning and the end, You are the maintainer. All these things are being done by Your external energy through the action and reaction of the three modes of material nature. Therefore the conclusion is that whatever is existing, it is You only, externally and internally."



Prabhupāda:



ekas tvam eva jagad etam amuṣya yat tvam

*ādy*-antayoḥ pṛthag avasyasi madhyataś ca

*sṛṣṭvā guṇa*-vyatikaraṁ nija-māyayedaṁ

nāneva tair avasitas tad anupraviṣṭaḥ

[SB 7.9.30]



Very interesting. This is realization of God. There is difference, varieties; *at the same time they're one, unity in variety. So in the Brahma*-saṁhitā also it is stated, eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. There are many millions of universes, jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means this universe, and koṭi means millions. Don't think this is the only universe. There are many millions' universes. In God creation there is no limitation. Everything unlimited. Even this universe, to us it is a great, wonderful thing. We do not know even what are there in the four corners of this universe, millions and millions of stars, millions of planets, millions and millions of oceans, mountains, and what to speak of living entities? Everything unlimited. The universe... It is also stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. In the effulgence of Brahman... The example is also there. It is not very difficult. Just like in the sunshine is the effulgence, shine. Sun is there, and the shining is there, but within the shining there are innumerable planets. In the daytime we cannot see, but at night we can see wherefrom these stars and planets coming. They are already there. In the sunshine, due to the bright sunshine, we cannot see them, but they are existing. As our planet is existing within the sunshine, so similarly, there are millions of planets. They are also existing. Yasya... Similarly... Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. This is only universe, but these each universe, millions of universes, they are existing within the Brahman effulgence, brahmajyoti, both spiritual and material. Everything is there.



So this is the creation of the Supreme Lord. He says,

athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

vistabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*"I enter into this creation." Without spiritual creation, without spiritual entities, there cannot be development of material. That is our contention, that this material world has developed because Kṛṣṇa has entered it. Anupraviṣṭaḥ. It is said here clearly, tair avasitas tad anupraviṣṭaḥ: "Because You have entered, therefore things have developed." Aṇḍāntara*-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara... Without spiritual touch, nothing can develop. We have got practical experience that without the spirit soul, the body cannot develop. If a dead child comes out, the body does not develop. Because the spirit soul is there... So this nonsense theory that "Within the womb of the mother, unless the body is developed to seven months, there is no life," what is this nonsense? The body has developed to that seven months' condition because there is a spirit soul. Otherwise how it becomes seven months' developed? You'll find this description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore the knowledge received from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is perfect. Any knowledge which does not corroborate with the knowledge in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is useless knowledge. Therefore, in the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. Vāstava-vastu, real knowledge. This is real knowledge. In the Bhāgavata it is said, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor deho upapatti: [SB 3.31.1] "A living entity gets a body," upapatti, "according to karma." Everything is stated there. After sex, the living entity takes shelter within the semina and ovum of the father and mother, and it be... It is... The formation is just like a small grain. That grain develops because the spirit soul has taken shelter. Then body... It is not that the body develops automatically, and at seven months there is life. No. Life... The consciousness may be there. That is another... Consciousness... Sometimes, if I am surcharged with anesthetics, if I am chloroformed, my consciousness is not there. That does not mean I am not there. Consciousness sometimes may be absent. One man fainted; there is no consciousness. That does not mean there is no life. There is life. The consciousness has not developed.



*So this is the anupraviṣṭaḥ. This is the fact. Matter cannot develop without the entrance of the spirit, either the spark of the spirit or the Supreme Spirit. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antam, aṇḍāntarastham: He enters. We have got many informations that this brahmāṇḍa, the Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu enters. Then, from His abdomen, the lotus flower stem is there. Then Brahmā comes, and then Brahmā creates. So the original creation or the beginning of the activities of this universe was first the entrance of Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu. The Mahā-Viṣṇu... Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. First of all this universe is one of the millions of universes who is coming out from the pores of the transcendental body of Mahā-Viṣṇu, and then Mahā-Viṣṇu, in the form of Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, enters each and every universe, and then things takes place. Then Brahmā is created. This is the process of creation. Anupraviṣṭaḥ. The first entrance is of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So actually, ekas tvam eva: "Whatever we are seeing, that is... You are." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8], the Bhagavad-gītā says. Aham, that is one, Kṛṣṇa. Mām ekam. That is one.

*So actually everything is that same Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it further explains, aham... What is that? Mayā tatam idam. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Sarvam, everything. Everything is expanded. Mayā tatam idam. Tatam means expanded; *idam, this universe or this world or everything, whatever you take... Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4]. He... That is His avyakta, impersonal form. Everything is Kṛṣṇa, but that does not mean that His personal form is finished. Because He is expanded everywhere... This is Māyāvāda theory, that "Because God has expanded in so many varieties, therefore God has no form." No. That is not the fact. Fact is, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. He is... In His original sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1] He is existing always in Goloka Vṛn... He does not go anywhere, leaving aside His friends, father, mother, beloved, anywhere. He's always... Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya padam ekaṁ na gacchati. He does not go anywhere. Padam ekaṁ na gacchati. Just like a big man. We have got so many examples. A big man, he is sitting at his home. With family he's enjoying. But he is managing many, many hundreds of factories sitting there. We have got practical experience. Big, big business magnate, they do not come to the office, neither he goes to the factory. Simply by his order, telephone, "You do this," that's all. Things are going on. So if it is possible materially that one ordinary man, he can manage hundreds of factories and offices without going there, simply by his order, so how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa, we have to imagine. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. Still, even a man or even a demigod... Just like demigod Indra: he's managing the affairs of rains, how to collect the clouds, how to disperse them, how... And there are management, so many managements. But all these managements are going on on the supreme management, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He says in the Bhagavad-gītā that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. This is to be understood. That one Supreme Person, He is managing everything. The material and spiritual world, everything is being managed by Him. That is God. God is not so cheap. This is God.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, Vaiṣṇava, he understands that "You are the only origin of everything." Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Ekas tvam eva jagat. The cosmic manifestation is changing, but the real cause is ekas tvam eva: "My Lord, You are the..." Ekas tvam eva jagad etat amuṣya yat tvam: "The cause and effect both You are, the cause and effect." There is no different cause. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. That is also confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*He is cause and effect both, sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: [Bg. 9.4] "I am the original cause."



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Those who are actually devotee, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, such devotee can understand it is only Kṛṣṇa. He is, by His unlimited power, ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ, He is exhibiting in different ways. Ekas tvam eva jagad etam amuṣya yat tvam ādyam. The same thing you'll find. Vedic literature means there is no contradiction. Either you read this Veda or that Veda, it is not... People who are foolish, who cannot understand, they sometimes see contradiction. No. There is no contradiction. Same one law. Therefore, because we are limited, or our knowledge is limited, imperfect, therefore we should not argue. We shall accept what is stated in the Veda. And if we argue, then we'll find unnecessarily contradiction and we'll be misled. Don't argue. There is no question of... Veda-vācana. Veda-vācana means veda-pramāṇa, śruti-pramāṇa. This is the way of Vedic civilization. If you can prove something quoting from the Vedas, then you are victorious. Veda-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. There are many evidences, but the first-class evidence is śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā [Brs. 1.2.101].



*So we cannot accept some rascal as God unless there is śruti*-pramāṇa, śruti-pramāṇa, unless it is proved by the evidence of the sru... We accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the Supreme Personality of... Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt para-tattvaṁ param iha. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, na caitanyat kṛṣṇat. Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt. Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa. As there is no para-tattva above Kṛṣṇa, similarly, there is no para-tattva above Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior truth than Me." And the same Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. Namo mahā-vadanyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te, kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Rūpa Gosvāmī... Therefore we have to follow Rūpa Gosvāmī. He says that "My Lord, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, You are Kṛṣṇa. You have simply changed the name: Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. You are Kṛṣṇa." Similarly, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya says that vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. The same purāṇa-puruṣa... Ādyaṁ puruṣa. Puruṣam ādyam, Kṛṣṇa. Vairāgya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ... [Cc. Madhya 6.254], śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī: "The same Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, You have now appeared in a body which is called Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. Actually You are the same Kṛṣṇa." So where... Why He has come? Now, kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. As Kṛṣṇa, He could not give Him to everyone. Kṛṣṇa ordered-because He is the Supreme Person, He can order-sarva-dharmān parityajya māṁ ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], but He could not induce. We are so rascal that we could not take even directly the order of Kṛṣṇa. We are so rascal. Therefore Kṛṣṇa again thought that "These rascals, they could not understand Me. All right, now let Me appear as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and I shall give not only Kṛṣṇa but kṛṣṇa-prema." This is mahā-vadānyāya. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore He is mahā-vadānya. He's not only giving Kṛṣṇa but kṛṣṇa-prema. That is wanted. Prema pumārtho mahān. Our, this human form of life is meant for achieving love of Godhead. That is perfection of life. That is perfection of life. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mahā-vadānyavatāra because He is giving kṛṣṇa-prema. Therefore you'll see. Any person, after chanting Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, immediately he becomes in ecstacy. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Immediately. Even a third-class man, even a child, even a boy, even a dog will be immediately, in ecstatic... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

*So we have got this opportunity of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's merciful movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So take it very seriously and chant śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhatka-vrnda. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam tvisakṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32]. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, but now He's chanting Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa he, kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa... That is the... It is confirmed in the Vedas that "In the Kali-yuga the Lord will appear as this." Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣa akṛṣṇam. He is always describing Kṛṣṇa. When He was a teacher, that time also, He was explaining Kṛṣṇa. When He was explaining grammar, He was explaining Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Jīva Gosvāmī, understanding the desire of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he compiled Hari-nāmāmṛta-vyakāraṇa. In the vyakāraṇa, in the grammar, all examples, all sandhis, samasa, everything with Hari. Hari-nāmāmṛta-vyakāraṇa. Dhātu. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was explaining dhātu... Dhātu has got different meaning. Dhātu means the life force, the vital force. So He was explaining that this dhātu means Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa is not there, then life is finished. So the disciples who were students, they thought that "This person has gone mad." You see? So they criticized. So immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu closed the paṭha-śala. So that is Kṛṣṇa varṇayati. In everything He was explaining Kṛṣṇa. And when He was preaching, He talked with the Muhammadans, Afghans, and He proved from Koran there is Kṛṣṇa devotion, from Koran. That is Kṛṣṇa-varṇayati. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam. Anywhere He will explain Kṛṣṇa. Then nothing. And therefore He has advised everyone that yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa. So one has to learn this art, how to explain Kṛṣṇa in every step of life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



760309SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.31

-

Māyāpur, March 9, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Lordship, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the whole cosmic creation is caused by You, and the cosmic manifestation is the effect of Your energy. Although the whole cosmic creation is Yourself, still, You keep Yourself aloof from it. The conception of 'my' and 'yours' is certainly a kind of illusion, māyā. Because everything is emanating from You, it is not different from You. The manifestation is also not different from You, and the annihilation is also caused by You. In this connection, the example is of the seed and the tree, or the subtle cause and the gross manifestation."



Prabhupāda:



*tvaṁ vā idaṁ sad*-asad īśa bhavāṁs tato 'nyo

*māyā yad ātma*-para-buddhir iyaṁ hy apārthā

yad yasya janma nidhanaṁ sthitir īkṣaṇaṁ ca

*tad vaitad eva vasukālavad aṣṭi*-tarvoḥ

[SB 7.9.31]



*Cause and effect, sad*-asad. One disappears, the cause appears, disappears, and the effect comes into being. The very good example is given here, aṣṭi-tarvoḥ. Aṣṭi means seed, and the... From the aṣṭi, from the seed, a big banyan tree comes out. At that time the aṣṭi, the seed, disappears. A tree is manifestation, so this is example of sad-asat. Aṣṭi, the seed, disappears, and the tree is manifest. So the creation of God is like that. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10]. Bīja, aṣṭi, or seed, He is the root cause of everything. One seed, a small seed, grain, and hundreds of thousands trees coming out of it, and in each tree there are millions of fruits, and each fruit, there are hundreds and thousands of seeds. Again, from the seed, the same creation, hundreds and thousands, millions and millions. This is God's intelligence, how from one source so many varieties are coming out. Again, when annihilation takes place, they again go into the original seed, Kṛṣṇa. Yānti māmikam, it is said. It's coming out.



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*This material creation is done by Mahā-Viṣṇu. Mahā-Viṣṇu. The original Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Original God-īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]*-He is simply playing on flute and enjoying the company of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. He has nothing to do. And how things are taking place? Creation, He's the creator? By expansion, svāṁśa. From Kṛṣṇa the expansion is Balarāma; *from Balarāma the expansion is Saṅkarṣaṇa, then Aniruddha, Pradyumna, like that, then Nārāyaṇa, then again Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, dvitīya*-catur-vyūha. From this Saṅkarṣaṇa, Mahā-Viṣṇu. Therefore Mahā-Viṣṇu is described, kalā-viśeṣaḥ. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo [Bs. 5.48]. This Mahā-Viṣṇu, from whom, by His breathing only, millions and trillions of universes are coming, and each universe there is a Brahmā, jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Just like in this universe there is one Brahmā. He creates again so many demigods, animals, human beings in each universe. Again we create so many also. Each of us, although we are very insignificant, still in the history we find one man begets hundreds of children.



*So this is creation. This is Kṛṣṇa's creation, how things are going on. But original seed is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sat-cit-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, anādiḥ [Bs. 5.1]. He has no kāraṇa. He is not coming out of any seed. Anādi. Anādi means there is no beginning. He is eternal. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Sat-cit-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. So there is no creator of Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. That is called īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, the Supreme. Everyone may be īśvara-partially. Īśvara means controller. So every one of us, we are more or less little controller. We sometimes control some little children or some disciples or some kingdom. So everyone may be controller. They are very much fond of becoming God. God means controller. So everyone can become... He is. Kṛṣṇa has given. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so the quality of controlling must be there. Although very insignificant part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, still, the power of controlling is there, very minute quantity. This is understanding. Svāṁśa vibhināṁśa. Everyone... Viṣṇu-tattva is also Kṛṣṇa's aṁśa, part and parcel. Yasya kalā-viśeṣaḥ. Kalā-viśeṣaḥ means part, part of the part. Kalā, aṁśa, and aṁśa's aṁśa, that's called kalā-viśeṣo. So that kalā-viśeṣa, Kṛṣṇa, Mahā-Viṣṇu, He's creating millions and millions of universes. So just imagine what is the creative power of Kṛṣṇa.

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, idaṁ sad*-asad-īśa. Sad-asat, kārya kāraṇa, cause and effect. Just like you have got a cloth. Cloth is made of cotton. So from cotton we prepare thread, and from thread we prepare cloth. So when the cloth is there, the thread has disappeared. When the thread is there, the cotton has disappeared. They are called sad-asat. Sat means which is existing, and asad means which is no longer existing. So this material world is asat. It is simply for the time being an exhibition. So we have to find out the real existence, sanātana existence. That is Kṛṣṇa. We should not be bewildered by seeing this temporary manifestation. Anything material is temporary. It has a date of creation. Everything, whatever you see here in the... Just like this microphone. It has got a date of creation, it will work for some time, and then it will go out of order, and we shall throw it in the street and again it will disappear in the earth, because everything has come out from the earth. This is material world. But we must find out what is the reality. We should not be bewildered by the temporary things. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to take the living entity from this temporary world to the spiritual world or to the permanent world, where there is no more annihilation. It is eternal, nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ.

*So we living entities, we are eternal. This is māyā, that I am thinking, "I am this body." This is our ignorance. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to deliver the human society from this ignorance, temporary things: "I am this body. This is my country. This is my wife. This is my children. This is... This is mine. This is*-ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. I am this body, and anything in reference with the body is mine." But actually there is no such thing. This is called māyā. Real thing is, the reality is, Kṛṣṇa, Brahman, Parabrahman. All other things... Therefore Vedic injunction is, "Don't try to remain in this temporary situation." Asato mā sad gamaḥ: "Don't remain this..." But we are so ignorant, our present civilization is so foolish, that they do not know what is sat and what is asat. They want to stay in the asat. They want to make arrangement to stay in this asat, temporary things, forgetting that however nicely you make arrangement in this temporary material world, you'll not be allowed to stay. This is our ignorance. Mūḍha nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Kṛṣṇa says, "These rascals, mūḍha, they do not know what is the permanent stage, sanātana." That is wanted. That is human knowledge. One should know the permanent, not be bewildered by the temporary things. That is ignorance.

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, yad ātma*-para-buddhir iyaṁ hy apārthā. This is misconception, ātma-para-buddhiḥ. Ātmā means "mine," and para means "others." Where is "my" and "your"? Everything Kṛṣṇa's. Hy apārthā. This is misconception. But the whole world is going on on the basis of this ātma-para-buddhiḥ: "My country," "My city," "My building," "My family," "my, my, my," that's all. And "my" and "your." Neither your nor mine. It is all Kṛṣṇa's, the different energies, manifestation of different energies. Just like fire. From fire, two energies are coming, and if we fight that this, you say, "The light energy is mine, and the heat energy is your," that is foolishness. The heat and light, both of them, are coming from the fire. Everything belongs to the fire. But we are fighting: "Heat is mine, and light is your. Let us divide." How you can divide? Parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Everything is manifestation of energy. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. We see in the garden so many flowers, different color, different flavor, different utility. But wherefrom it is coming? It is coming from this earth. We do not know even how much inconceivable energies are there within this earth. We do not know. Where is the scientist? They are very much proud of their scientific knowledge. Let them say how many varieties of things are within this earth. They analyze the earth. What do they find? They see only sixty percent soda bicarb. No. There are many, many finer chemicals. Who is that rascal who can say that so many things are there, "This is soda bicarb"? And this is scientific, that's all. Nobody scientist; *all fools and rascals, mūḍhā. They do not know anything. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, "I am this." That is the actual fact. But His energies are so, mean, manifestedly variegatedness energy. You'll find so beautiful world. It is condemned place. Still, you see, by Kṛṣṇa's energy the world is so beautiful-so many trees, so many flowers, so many fruits, so many varieties of life, so many varieties of human beings. This is Kṛṣṇa, varieties. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate sva-bhāvikī... [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. And every energy is acting automatically. You give the seed, sow the seed on the earth, and automatically the flower, flavor, beauty-everything will come automatically. There will be no... There is no question of accidents. The so-called scientist, they cannot explain. "Accidents." Why accidents? A rose flower seed-rose will come. Why not by accident, lemon? No. There is no such things as accidents. This is all rascaldom. Everything is going on... Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate sva-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. In the energy there is automatic knowledge and activities, and they are being manifested.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "Everything, variety, is there, but..." Tvaṁ vā idaṁ sad*-asad bhavān: "Except Yourself, to conceive anything else, that 'Beyond Kṛṣṇa there is anything,' that is māyā." That is māyā, illusion. There is nothing except Kṛṣṇa. Therefore those who are advanced devotees, they do not see anything, simply Kṛṣṇa in everywhere. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti, sarvatra sphūraya tāñra iṣṭa-deva mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. A devotee sees a tree, but he does not see the tree. He sees: "It is Kṛṣṇa's energy." Immediately he remembers Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When every step you'll simple see Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa... That is possible, provided you follow the footstep of Prahlāda Mahārāja. That will be possible. Or devotees. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That is the way. If you speculate nonsensically, it will be not possible. If you follow the devotees, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ, then you'll be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760310SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.32

-

Māyāpur, March 10, 1976



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "O my Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, after annihilation, the creative energy is kept in Yourself, but the energy being put within Yourself, it appears that You are sleeping with half*-closed eyes. Actually, there is no sleeping like an ordinary human being. You are always in the transcendental stage, beyond the creation of the material world, and You always feel in transcendental bliss. In this way, You, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, remain in Your transcendental status, but although it appears that Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is sleeping, it is not that; (it is) sleeping distinct from sleeping in ignorance."



Prabhupāda:



*nyasyedam ātmani jagad vilayāmbu*-madhye

*śeṣetmanā nija*-sukhānubhavo nirīhaḥ

*yogena mīlita*-dṛg-ātma-nipīta-nidras

turye sthito na tu tamo na guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe

[SB 7.9.32]



This is the position, transcendentally. How we use this word transcendental, that is explained here, what is transcendental. Turya. Turya, the fourth dimension. Here, in this material world, there are three dimensions: length, breadth and height. And spiritual world, beyond that, not within the measurement of length, breadth and height, that is called turya. (aside:) Child...



*So we have already discussed that without spiritual touch there is no material creation. That is not possible. So modern scientists, they're missing this point, all big, big scientists. It is very simple thing, but they cannot understand. Māyayāpahṛta*-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Although they're advertised to be very advanced in knowledge, but actually they have no knowledge. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They cannot find out that within the matter there must be spirit. Otherwise there is no creation. There must be. We have used this example often, that matter... A dead child means matter. This body is lump of matter, but on account of presence of the spirit soul we have got working arrangement of this body. There is hand, there is leg, there is head, there is ear-everything is being utilized. But when the spirit soul is not there, what is the value of this head, leg or hand? Anyone can see to it.

*So the same principle is applicable to the whole cosmic creation, that even within the ant the same principle, within Brahmā the same principle, and within the gigantic universe, the same principle. Without the spirit soul, there is no question of creation. Creation, maintenance and destruction, three things are going on on account of presence of the Supreme Soul. Therefore the three principal deities-Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara*-are there, guṇa-avatāra. He is not within the guṇa; *therefore He expands Himself as guṇāvatāra: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. But He's turya of the guṇas. Just like if we enter into the fire, we'll be burned, but sometimes the fire brigade men, they enter into the fire... They have got suit and contradictory dress that they can enter into the fire. Similarly, māyā... Māyā is very strong, but Kṛṣṇa, the Lord, when He comes within this material world-yuge yuge sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]*-He comes in His own original turya status. He does not become affected. Guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe. He's not affected. This is the position of Kṛṣṇa. He's always transcendental. Na me karma-phale spṛhā. Na māṁ limpanti karma... Karmāṇi. Yes. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma-phale spṛhā [Bg. 4.14]. This is position. We are here under the pressure of karma-phala. By the result of our past lives' fruitive activities we have got this body, material body. That is also not our real body. That is the body of the prison house, just like when a criminal is put into the prison house, he is given a different dress. In hospital, in prison house, when a man is there, his original dress is taken away. It is kept. When he's released from the hospital or jail, the same dress is again returned. Otherwise his present dress is taken and a separate dress is given. Similarly, we have got our spiritual body, not that we are zero, as the Māyāvādī thinks. We are not zero. We have got our spiritual body but very, very small. Very small. The measurement is given: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, very minute. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. The Supreme Lord is great. "God is great." He's greater than the greatest, and He is smaller than the smallest. He is... The living entity is even smaller than the atom, but it has got a body. It is not that without body. We cannot imagine. Just like sometimes we see at night some microbic ant, very small, almost like full stop, but it is moving very nicely here and there. So the same physiological contruction, anatomy, is there. Everything is there. So this is God's creation. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. It can also fly. We can manufacture a flying machine, 747, but we cannot manufacture a flying machine like that microbic ant. That is not possible.

*So this is God's creation, everything wonderful. But still, He's above, turya. He's not within this creation. He's creating, but he's not within it. Etad īśanam iṣasya. This is called godly power. He is within everything and He is without still. So that is understood here. Nyasyedam ātmani jagat vilayāmba*-madhye. Amba-madhye... Yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidram ananta [Bs. 5.47]. He appears to be sleeping. Ananta-kāle. Again creation and, what is called, annihilation is going on. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā [Bs. 5.48]. This creation and annihilation is going on continually. And what is the time difference? Niśvasita-kālam. Just like we exhale and inhale, a second, similarly, this creation-annihilation is a second for Mahā-Viṣṇu. So millions and millions of years stays... Everything is created, and it stays for some time. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti pralaya, three stages. So between the sṛṣṭi, creation, and pralaya, annihilation, there is one period which is called sthiti. That sthiti means the life of Brahmā. When the life of Brahmā is finished, then there is no more sthiti; *it is now annihilated. Now you can calculate what is the life of Brahmā. Sahasra*-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Our one thousand years and multiplied by the years of yuga... The yuga year means forty-three hundred thousand of years, and, multiplied by one thousand, that period is Brahmā's twelve hours, day. Now you can imagine. It is beyond your mathematical calculation, but still, there is calculation in the śāstra, and that is, such hundreds years, is the duration of sthiti. But that sthiti, before Kāraṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu, is the moment, just like we exhale and inhale. So sṛṣṭi-sthiti. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. They take only that much time which is between exhaling and inhaling. That Mahā-Viṣṇu. That Mahā-Viṣṇu has placed Himself in this material energy, maha-tattva, and by His niśvasa, by His inhaling and exhaling, the material energy is agitated. Then the three guṇas are there. Then, by interaction, counteraction, the whole creation takes place.

*Nyasyedam ātmani jagad vilayāmbu*-madhye śeṣe. Śeṣe: "Lying down on the Śeṣa-mūrti." Ātmanā nija-sukhānubhavo... "He is not obliged, as we are placed in certain condition of life, being obliged." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. I have got this body; *you have got this body. It is not sukhānubhavaḥ. Here it is said that nija-sukhānubhavaḥ. This is called pastime. He is not obliged, but he takes pleasure. Just like sometimes we take pleasure in a swimming pool, lie down and closing our eyes. Who expert swimmer, they're lying down. Why it is not possible for the Supreme Lord? What is the difficulty? Sukhānubhavaḥ. We take that pastime for pleasure, for pleasure, lying down on the water, closing eyes. So when we speak, "The Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu lying down in the Causal Ocean," these rascals, fools, they sometimes criticize, "And how it is possible?" How it is not possible? If a ordinary man can take pleasure lying down on the water, closing and lying for hours-we have seen it-so what is the difficulty for the Supreme Lord? You have got this tendency to lie down on water, half on the water, and close your eyes. So where your tendency has come? Your tendency has come because the same tendency is there in the Supreme Lord. This is the explanation. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jayante. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This is the Vedic... Everything, whatever you see, that is there in the Supreme Being. Why we make love affairs with young girls or young boys? Because the same propensity is there. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying in Goloka Vṛndāvana with so many young girls. That tendency to enjoy the company of young girls or young boys is there. Otherwise wherefrom it has come? That is the explanation. Everything, whatever you see, everything-janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]*-that is there.

*So this sleeping of Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu is not extraordinary. We can... If we study our, I mean to say, inclinations, our sense of pleasure, if we simply study ourself, you'll find that the Supreme Lord possessing the same thing but in turya, without any touch of māyā or without any touch of the three guṇas. Then you can understand what is God. God means... Because we are part and parcel of God, so you study yourself. You'll find the same quality. Just like a small drop of sea water. You analyze it, what chemicals are there*-the same chemicals are in the ocean. The difference is quantity. Quality, the same. That is called acintya-bhedābheda tattva. We are qualitatively one with God, not quantitatively. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think we are also quantitatively the same. That is mistake. That is not possible. Otherwise why it is said, sthito na tu tamo na guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe? This... He is so big that He is above these qualities. Just like we become infected in a filthy place, but the sun does not become infected. It, rather, sterilizes that infected place. So we should not compare with God, that "I am equal to Him." No. That is not possible. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya [SB 10.33.29]. The sun, when it absorbs water from the urinal, he is not infected. He makes that urinal sterilized. Similarly, if sometimes we see some behavior of the Supreme Lord which appears from social, our social point of view as not permitted... But He can do anything. That is the meaning of all-powerful. But He's not affected. He's not affected. Apāpa-viddham. Apāpa-viddham, in the Upaniṣad, Īśopaniṣad, that sinful activities... He cannot do anything which is sinful. God is always good. But to our calculation, limited calculation, if we see that He is committing something sinful, it is not sinful. It is sterilizing. The same example. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. If by chanting His holy name we become sinless, how God can become sinful? It is not possible. This is common sense. If by chanting His holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Devotees: Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



Prabhupāda: ...so we become purified, how Kṛṣṇa can be impure? It is not possible. Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa.



*Here is explanation, that sthito na tu tamo na guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe. This is Kṛṣṇa. This is Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. Never, never think... There are some party, they say, "We worship Kṛṣṇa, Bāla*-Kṛṣṇa, boy Kṛṣṇa." Sometimes they give reason that... Why not, I mean to say, grown-up Kṛṣṇa? They say that "Grown-up Kṛṣṇa was polluted by rāsa-līlā." Just see the fool nonsense! Kṛṣṇa is always Kṛṣṇa. This is foolish conclusion, that child Kṛṣṇa is pure than young Kṛṣṇa. This is wrong conception. Kṛṣṇa is... Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was three months old, He could kill a big, gigantic witch, that Pūtanā. Can... A three months' old child can kill such a big...? No. Kṛṣṇa is always God. Either He appears in three months or three hundred years or three thousand years, He is the same. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam adyaṁ purāṇa puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. This is Kṛṣṇa.

*So by studying Kṛṣṇa, you become liberated. So these verses should be studied very carefully, understanding each word very carefully. Then you'll understand Kṛṣṇa. Kavirāja Gosvāmī has said, siddhānta boliyā citte nā kara alasa, ihā haite kṛṣṇa lāge sudṛdha mānasa. Siddhānta, what is Kṛṣṇa, if you study from the śāstras, then siddhānta boliyā citte, don't be lazy in understanding Kṛṣṇa, because if you try to understand Kṛṣṇa sādhu-śāstra*-guru-vākyaṁ cittete kariya aikya-through the sādhu, śāstra and guru-then you understand Kṛṣṇa, what He is. Then you'll not take Him as ordinary human being, as foolish person taking. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Mūḍhās, rascals, they think Kṛṣṇa as one of us. Then you'll not be a mūḍha. You'll be intelligent. And what is the effect? Kṛṣṇa says personally, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you understand Kṛṣṇa perfectly well... Of course, we cannot know Kṛṣṇa perfectly. He's so big and we are so small that it is impossible. That is not possible. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa as much as He explains Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. That much will help you. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa cannot understand Himself. Therefore He came as Caitanya, to understand Himself.

*So it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa is giving about, knowledge about Himself, as far as we can understand. That is Bhagavad*-gītā. So at least you try to understand Kṛṣṇa as far instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. There is no other business. If you simply stick to this business, your life is successful. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for that purpose. We are opening so many centers so that the people of the world may take advantage of this opportunity and understand Kṛṣṇa and make his life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760311SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.33

-

Māyāpur, March 11, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "This cosmic manifestation, the material world, is also Your body. By Your potential energy known as kāla-śakti, this total lump of matter is agitated, and thus three modes of material nature are manifested. In this way You become awakened from the bed of Ananta-Śeṣa, and from Your navel a small transcendental seed is generated, from which the gigantic universe becomes manifest. Exactly like the small seed of banyan tree, the lotus flower of the cosmic manifestation is grown up."



*Prabhupāda: These verses of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, they are Vedic mantras. They're not ordinary wording, set of wording. It is not. Veda-mantra, saṁhitā. So every one of you must try to chant. This is required. Each verse of Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they are Vedic mantras, veda-mantra. So simply by chanting them we become purified. So every one of you... There is diacritic marks, literation, transliteration, so everyone should try to chant the mantra. That is very beneficial. That is kīrtana. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51]. Everything is being chanted in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, with reference to Kṛṣṇa.



So this material world is explained,

*tasyaiva te vapur idaṁ nija*-kāla-śaktyā

*sañcodita*-prakṛti-dharmaṇa ātma-gūḍham

*ambhasy ananta-śayanād viramat*-samādher

*nābher abhūt sva*-kaṇikā-vaṭavat mahābjam

[SB 7.9.33]



*Vaṭavat mahābjam. Abjam means flower, lotus flower? Yes. So this is the description of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and then Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and then Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, trin, three Viṣṇus. First of all from... I have several times explained, from Kṛṣṇa, then expansion, Balarāma, then catur*-vyūha, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, like that. Then Nārāyaṇa, then dvitīya catur-vyūha. From dvitīya catur-vyūha, Vaikuṇṭha, Saṅkarṣaṇa, then Puruṣa, Puruṣa-avatāra. These Puruṣas are three. In the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna recognized Kṛṣṇa as puruṣa. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam. So He's the puruṣa. God is puruṣa, male. God is not female. Female... The śakti, that is female, prakṛti.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is mentioned, prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā, bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. This material nature is separated energy, divided into eight elements: earth, water, air, and fire, then ether, mind, intelligence and ego. These are all prakṛti, material. Bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. Bhinnā. Bhinnā means separated. There is not direct connection, but another prakṛti, that is... Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā [Bg. 7.5]. This is inferior energy, material elements, and there is superior element, prakṛti. That is also prakṛti. We are prakṛti. Prakṛti means under the control of the puruṣa. That is natural. We cannot conceive equal rights of puruṣa and prakṛti. That is not Vedic conception. Vedic conception is puruṣa, the superior, Supreme, and prakṛti means subordinate. Puruṣa is predominator, and prakṛti is predominated. So we living entities, we are prakṛti. Falsely if we try to become puruṣa, that is māyā. We should remain prakṛti, subservient, predominated. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because generally the people are misled, thinking himself as puruṣa, "I am the enjoyer." But that is not the fact. That false ego, that "I am enjoyer," that is false ego. And real ego is "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." So there is no necessity of giving up egotism or egoism, but it must be real. At the present moment we are falsely thinking, "I am this body," every one of us. There is no argument. The whole material world is going on on the basis of this false conception that "I am this body." And because I am this body, therefore "I am American," "I am Indian." So this is false ego.

*So from this false ego, when we come to real ego... What is that real ego? That "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. That is real ego. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people how to come to the real ego, real constitutional position. The Māyāvādī philosophy, they are also trying to do that, but they're another false ego: ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi-"I am Brahman"*-that is a fact, but I am not Supreme Brahman, Parabrahman. The Māyāvādī, they take it: "Because I am Brahman, I am Supreme Brahman." No. Suppose you are all coming from America. You can claim that you are American, but that does not mean you are Mr. Ford, the President. So similarly, this is false ego. If somebody thinks, "Because I am American, therefore I am equal to Mr. Ford," that is false. That is not... So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to bring back these, I mean to say, insane, crazy fellows to their real consciousness. These crazy fellows, they are thinking, "I am God," "I am master," "I am this," "I am that," "I am prime minister," "I am president." This false ego. The real ego is, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching.

*When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was approached by Sanātana Gosvāmī, his first question was ke āmi: "Who am I?" This is the first education, spiritual education. And the same thing is taught in the Bhagavad*-gītā because Arjuna was too much identifying himself in the bodily conception of life: "I belong to this Kurus' family, so if I kill them, then family will be ruined. The women will be widows, and they'll be corrupted. Then there will be unwanted children, varṇa-saṅkara, and in this way the whole world will be hellish," and so on, so on, so many, but beginning with the bodily conception of life. All, what was, Arjuna was explaining to Kṛṣṇa, that was... From material point of view, it is very nice. He wanted to become nonviolent. He did not like to kill his family members. He, rather, liked to forego his claim, that "I don't want. Let them enjoy." But everything, from material point of view, it was very nice proposal. But this identification with family, with nation, with community, this is all foolishness. All foolishness.

*So if you study this point only, you'll see the whole world is full of fools and rascals, that's all, because everyone is identifying with his body. There is fight, the United Nation. What is this United Nation nonsense? Assembly of rascals and fools, that's all. (laughter) Because they have got this bodily concept of life we can say, freely. There is no*-what is called?-defaming. Everyone, fools and rascals. How we can say? On the strength of Vedic knowledge. This is our power. Otherwise how we can challenge the United Nation that "You are all assembly of fools and rascals"? This is Vedic knowledge. We can say and prove it, that they are all fools and rascals from the spiritual point of view because they do not know their identification. This is the first education, to know one's identification. That is being taught by Sanātana Gosvāmī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was prime minister. He knew himself, Sanātana Gosvāmī, that he was prime minister of Hussain Shah and he's coming of very learned brāhmaṇa family. He knew it. Then why he's asking, ke āmi: "Who am?" This is knowledge. This is knowledge. One has to understand himself. That is the basic principle of spiritual life. Unless we understand who I am... You go to the spiritual master, our first business is inquiry. That inquiry is "Who am I?" This is the... This is the beginning of inquiry. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is authorized. We have printed one pamphlet, "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement Is Authorized." It is not a sentiment, fanaticism. No. It is scientific, authorized. So I am very glad that you European and American boys, you have taken so much trouble to come here, but you'll be benefited if you come here and try to take lessons from Caitanya Mahāprabhu as He gave it to Sanātana Gosvāmī. Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired, "Who am I?" and He replied very simple thing: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is the beginning of our lesson, so we must understand very nicely this point.

*So this material world is explained here: tasyaiva te vapur idaṁ nija*-kāla-śaktyā. Energy, Kṛṣṇa's energy, prakṛti. Energy means prakṛti. So parasya brāhmaṇa śakti. Eka-sthāne sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇi yathā, parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śakti tathaiva akhilaṁ jagat. Then same thing we'll find in the Vedic literature everywhere, either you read Purāṇas or Mahābhārata, or Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta-sūtra also says that "The origin... The Absolute Truth is origin, and everything is emanation." So emanation and the original fact-vapur idam. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ: "This viśvam, this universe, is Bhagavān in one sense." Just like this my finger, so that is also my body. Although it is named "finger," but it is my body. Or even a piece of hair, that is also my body, although it is differently named, "hair." So similarly, when you understand that every particle of this material world is also the body of the Supreme Lord, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Aṇḍāntarasthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. So there are millions and trillions of universes, and each atom of each universe is Kṛṣṇa. That we have to understand. That is being explained here.

*Tasyaiva te vapur idaṁ nija*-kāla-śaktyā sañcodita-prakṛti dharmaṇa ātma-gūḍham. The secret, the people, they do not know. They... But Prahlāda Mahārāja knows. Ambhasi. This is the beginning of creation, ambhasi. Ambhasy ananta-śayanāt. Anantadeva... Ananta faces, there are. On that Ananta-naga, the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is lying on. So from the navel of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu there is a lotus flower, and... Vaṭavat-mahābjam. So, so there is Brahmā, and Brahmā created other thing. So it is just like the... In previous verse it has been explained, "Just like the seed of the fruit of the tree." Seed is the cause of the tree, and tree is the cause of the seed. In this way the whole material cosmic manifestation is there, and vapur idaṁ tava te. So everything of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava's, I mean to say, conception is that everything at least Kṛṣṇa's, so everything should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's benefit. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not "my benefit." "I also belong to Kṛṣṇa, so I must be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's benefit." So in this way, if we develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we'll be benefited.

Thank you very much. (end)



760312SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.34

-

Māyāpur, March 12, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "From that great lotus flower from which Brahmā is generated, certainly Brahmā could not see anything else except the big lotus flower. Therefore Lord Brahmā, diving within the water, executed austerity and penance for one hundred years but still could not get any trace of You. The reason is that when a seed is fructified, the original seed cannot be seen."



Prabhupāda:



*tat*-sambhavaḥ kavir ato 'nyad apaśyamānas

tvāṁ bījam ātmāni tataṁ sa bahir vicintya

nāvindad abda-śatam apsu nimajjamānaḥ

jāte 'ṅkure katham uhopalabheta bījam

[SB 7.9.34]



*So from the beginning of the creation the same illusion is continued. Brahma, when he was born, created, he was created not by ordinary father and mother, but he was created on a lotus flower stem which grew from the navel of Maha Viṣṇu, er, yes, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Therefore Brahmā's another name is Aja. He's not born like ordinary human being. Svayambhū. He's also known as Svayambhū. Everyone is born by father and mother, but he was born... Of course, father was there, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, but he did not come through the womb of mother. This is omnipotency. Lord Viṣṇu is lying on the Śeṣa bed, and Lakṣmīji is engaged in the service of massaging the lotus feet of Viṣṇu, but Viṣṇu did not take the help of Lakṣmīji to beget Brahmā. He personally begot from the navel. Therefore we should understand that the Supreme Personality of Godhead can perform anything he likes from any part of His body. That we chant always, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛttimanti. We have got knowledge, experience, that when a child is born it has got a different source of being born, but Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu wanted the child be born from the navel and not from the mother of the navel-there was no mother-but the father Himself. This is called aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Every part of the body, every limb, has got the potency to act like other parts of the body. We can see only with the eyes, but God can see with His finger. That is God. We can eat through mouth, but God can eat from any part of His body. If He simply touches His toe, He can eat. If He simply glances over the foodstuff offered to Him, He has eaten it. That we do not know. Therefore we're sometimes surprised that "How He has eaten?" that "You are offering so many nice things. It is lying down there. How I shall understand that He has eaten?" Yes, He has eaten. Simply by seeing, He has eaten. And because He's nija-lābha-pūrṇa, He's satisfied by His own self, therefore by simply glancing, He has eaten and it has become prasādam. You can take it. This is the meaning of aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti.



*So those who cannot understand the omnipotency, they speak of omnipotency, but they do not know what is that omnipotency. They describe sometimes, "God is omnipotent," but they do not know how the omnipotency acts. Here are some of the examples. Those who are devotee, they can understand. Nondevotees, they call*-what is?-"mythology." It is not mythology; *it is all fact. But foolish people who do not know how Kṛṣṇa or His confidential devotee act, they do not know it. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that ye bhaje sei baḍa abhakta hīna chāra: "One who is devotee, he is exalted. And those who are not devotees, they are low grade," hīna chāra, "condemned." So nobody can be exalted personality without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. This is the verdict of the Vedic knowledge. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā mano-rathena āsato dhāvato bahiḥ: [SB 5.18.12] "Those who are not devotees of the Lord, they cannot have any good qualities." That is not possible. "Why? There are so many big, big men, doctors, doctorate, having so big, big title from university." No. The śāstra says, "Yes." Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā. Why they have no good qualities? Because mano-rathena: "They are hovering over the mental platform." They have no realization of the spiritual platform. Therefore you'll find all these great scientists, philosophers, they are simply concocting with mind. The mind has no value. With mind you cannot reach spiritual platform, because it is material. With material instrument you cannot go to the spiritual platform. It is not possible. God can be understood. God is all-spirit, and He can be understood by spiritual method, not material method. Material method means up to the standard of mental speculation and mental concoction. That is not the way. Mano-rathena āsato dhāvato bahiḥ. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is also said,

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*By mental speculation, mental speed, you cannot reach the spiritual world. Mental speed is very strong. Everyone, we have got experience*-you are sitting here. Immediately, within a second, you can go to our London temple by the mental speed. So even by the mental speed for many, many years, if we run over the space, still, we cannot reach the spiritual world. That is not possible.



*But Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Kṛṣṇa... Aṇḍāntara*-stha paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. As Kṛṣṇa is being described, Viṣṇu, within this universe, so He is not only within the universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu; *He is within your heart also. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. And not only within your heart, but as many atoms are there, the composition of your body, in each atom He is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. So Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. But why you cannot see? Antar-bahir-avasthitam. Kṛṣṇa is within and without. If He is within every atom, then atoms are there, outside and inside. So antar-bahiḥ, He is situated. Anyone can see Him, but He cannot be seen to the nondevotee. He cannot be... Nāyaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ. He is not exposed to everyone. He is simply exposed to the devotee. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayan... [Bs. 5.38]. The nondevotee cannot see. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya [Bg. 7.25]. Unless Kṛṣṇa agrees to be seen, you cannot see. It is not possible. You cannot force Him to be seen by You. No, that is not possible. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. He... When He likes, He'll be seen by you, not that you can force Him. You cannot say that "Now I am qualified. Kṛṣṇa must come, and I'll see Him." That is not possible. We are never qualified unless Kṛṣṇa agrees to be seen by you. This is the... Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ: [Bg. 7.25] "Everyone cannot see Me." Yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ: "I am covered, I am veiled by the yoga-māyā." Yoga-māyā will not allow you to see unless you are devotee. Therefore Kṛṣṇa confirms this fact: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, God, as He is, then you must practice devotional life. Then He'll be seen. Bhaktyā mām, yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. To know Kṛṣṇa ordinarily-"Oh, Kṛṣṇa was born in India, in Mathurā. He's the son of such and such, and He was very big man"*-that is not tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ means as He is, sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].

*So for to know Kṛṣṇa, there are so many Vedic literatures. So we have to know through the mercy of the spiritual master. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Everything is there, just like Kṛṣṇa is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, but people could not understand Kṛṣṇa. Now we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as it is. People are understanding. They are becoming devotee. So we have to go through the right channel. Then we'll know Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you know Kṛṣṇa as He is, your life is successful. That is the aim and object of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement-simply to help the people to know Kṛṣṇa. This is the only business, because as soon as you know Kṛṣṇa, your life is successful in which way, eh? The success is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. This is success. This body should be the last acceptance of material body. That is success. Otherwise, if you continue, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ... [Bg. 2.13]. These foolish people, they do not know that dehāntara, there is change of body. Change of body is there already. You are experiencing, but they do not believe that after death there is body. Why not? If you have got experience in the life-"I have passed through so many changes of body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, then middle age and old body"-then what is next? Why do you finish here? It is common logic. Why should you finish here? There must be body. This is real reasoning. And Kṛṣṇa confirms it. Not only your contemplation. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: [Bg. 2.13] "In this way you'll have another body." The Kṛṣṇa, the great authority, He says, from whom Brahmā, the first creature, he learned. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva... Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. He... Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. He taught this Vedic literature to the heart of Brahmā. He can teach you through the heart also because He is sitting there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe [Bg. 18.61].

*A particularly mention, hṛd-deśe, "within the core of the heart." He doesn't say that "Īśvara is situated on your finger." No. Within the heart. The particular place is mentioned. Therefore the yogis' practice, real yoga practice, means to find out Kṛṣṇa within the heart. That is real yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. This is yogi. Yogis meditate. What for meditation? To find out Kṛṣṇa within the heart. That is yoga, not to show magic and gymnastic. No, that is not. That gymnastic yoga, that is not yoga. Real yoga is to find out Kṛṣṇa within one's own heart. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti... That yoga means you have to come to the platform of prema, love, not that simply official practice, you can see. You have to come to the platform... Without having love connection with Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible to see Him. You may practice this haṭha-yoga or gymnastic yoga for many, many births*-you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can be seen when you smear with love ointment in your eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. And that is possible: bhakti, through bhakti.

*So therefore why not practice bhakti*-yoga from the beginning if you want to see Kṛṣṇa? And that is recommended by Kṛṣṇa:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*Kṛṣṇa says, "He's first-class yogi." Who? "Who is always trying to see Kṛṣṇa within the heart." So it is very difficult task? In our bhakti-yoga we can teach this art of seeing Kṛṣṇa within the core of the heart in one minute. It is so simple. You are seeing Kṛṣṇa here. You must have impression and try to keep that impression within your heart always. Then you become first-class yogi. Why so much gymnastic and pressing the nose? No. Take directly. If you are engaged twenty-four hours in the service of the Deity, you cannot see except the Deity. This bhakti-yoga practice is so simple. Therefore kaniṣṭha adhikārī, those who are neophyte, they must take to Deity worship. By Deity worship he is elevated to the position of seeing the Lord within the heart. This is very important thing. You can see*-He is there-but you have no knowledge, or even if you have knowledge, you are not competent to see Him. But if you practice Deity worship...



Therefore it is the duty of guru to engage the neophyte devotee always in Deity worship.

*śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-

*śṛṅgāra*-tan-mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*It is the duty of the guru to engage his disciple in Deity worship, in cleansing the temple, dressing the Deity, decorating the Deity, so many engagements. So everyone should be engaged. If one is not competent to dress the Deity-everyone is competent*-he can simply wash the temple and cleanse it. That will also help. There is no difference, that one who is cleansing the floor of the temple and one who is engaged directly in the Deity worship... There is no difference. They are all the same. Don't think that "I am engaged in cleansing the floor of the temple, and he is engaged in decorating the temple. I should be envious." No. There is no question of. Any kind of duty you are engaged... Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. If you cannot do something which is hard for you, you do anything for Kṛṣṇa under the direction of spiritual master, you'll get perfection. It is not that "I have to do this. I have to do that." No. Kṛṣṇa's service is manyfold. If one is unable to take one kind of service, the spiritual master can give him another kind of service. But both the services are accepted by Kṛṣṇa.



Thank you very much. (end)



760313SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.35

-

Māyāpur, March 13, 1976



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Lord Brahmā, who is celebrated as ātma*-yoni, 'born without any mother,' became struck with wonder and could see only the lotus flower on which he was sitting. Thus, undergoing severe austerities for many hundreds of years, he became purified. At that time he could see in his own body the cause of all causes. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is spread all over his body and senses."



Prabhupāda:



*sa tv ātma*-yonir ativismita āśrito 'bjaṁ

*kālena tīvra*-tapasā pariśuddha-bhāvaḥ

tvām ātmanīśa bhuvi gandham ivātisūkṣmaṁ

bhūtendriyāśayamaye vitataṁ dadarśa

[SB 7.9.35]



*So dadarśa means "he saw." This seeing, this is impersonal seeing how the Supreme Personality of Godhead is present in everything. Although he is born directly from the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu, still, he could not see the Lord. Sa tv ātma-yonir ativismita. Suppose all of a sudden you are sleeping and you are put into a place where nobody else there*-you are simply there and everything, it is dark. How much perplexed you would be. So the Brahmā's position was like that. After each millennium, Brahmā's death, and then again birth... Our birth and death is going on, the same process. We are in the womb of the mother, and all of a sudden we come out, we see light, began to cry, and the relatives take care of us and we forget everything, in how much precarious condition I was before my birth.



*So those who are ordinarily sinful, they can at least see the light once, but those who are very severely sinful, they're killed within the womb. They cannot see even the light coming out. There are so many cases now, it is very (indistinct) that so many children, before coming out of the womb of the mother and before seeing the light of the sun, they are killed. And after killing, after being killed, the body is finished. Then he has to be put another body. Then enters another mother's body. Again the body is developed, and again he is killed. Just imagine. This... Because if... Tit for tat. If I kill a child in the womb-"Now I am very much proud of my scientific advancement"*-then I am have to be killed in my birth. That's all. You cannot avoid this nature's law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. There is very, very sūkṣma. The word is used sūkṣma, very, very fine laws. Who can see it? Ātma-yoni, so he's also not free. Although he is Lord Brahmā, he's also not free. He's perplexed: "Wherefrom I came? What is the source of my birth in darkness?" He could see only the lotus flower on which he was sitting, nothing else. Exactly our position... Just like so many scientists, they think that this world is everything, and other planets and worlds, there is no life. Only because he is there, there is life. This is the modern presentation.

*But that is not the fact. There are many, many millions and trillions of planets. Everywhere there is life. Even in the sun planet there is life. We see it is fiery. If there is no life, then where is the opportunity of Kṛṣṇa's speaking, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "I spoke first of all this science to Vivasvān"? Vivasvān manave prāha... [break] "First of all I spoke this science to the sun god, the chief person in the sun planet." So we cannot accept the so-called scientists' version that there is no life in the sun planet. Everywhere there is: sun planet, moon planet every... In the moon planet al... [break] ...arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ. So many millions of years is equal to twelve hours... [break] Lord Brahmā had to undergo austerity for hundreds of years of his calculation. So not our hundreds of years. Our hundreds of years may be Brahmā's a few hours only. Law of relativity. So Brahmā, even though he is directly born of Viṣṇu, he's not ordinary living be... He's also a living entity like us, but very, very pious. Just like here somebody is very rich, very influential, very beautiful, very learned. These are the results of pious activities, janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. If you are pious, then you get good opportunity of taking your birth in good family, aristocratic family, brāhmaṇa family, like that. You become beautiful, become educated. So Brahmā is also a similar living entity, but he's very, very pious. Very very pious. And Brahmā... Brahmā's post is so exalted that when there is no living entity available, then Lord Viṣṇu Himself becomes Brahmā. The post is so important. My point is that although he's so pious, greatly exalted, still, he had to purify himself.

*Here it is said, kālena tīvra*-tapasā pariśuddha-bhāvaḥ. Pariśuddha-bhāvaḥ. To become purified of the material contamination is not so easy. So you should always remember that the purificatory process which has been prescribed to you, how rigidly you have to follow. If you are neglectful, then you are losing the chance because you... Try to understand. This material world is so contaminous that even Lord Brahmā had to purify himself by austerities for many hundreds of years. I'm just trying to bring this point, how Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind, that for purification of Brahmā's body he had to take so many years under severe austerity, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, because we are so much fallen, not to compare with Brahmā, very, very fallen, still, He gives us a little formula:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*This much tapasya. So if somebody says that "Lord Caitanya gave us, certainly, but what is the proof that we are being purified?" No, there is proof. "Where?" It is stated in the śāstra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Whatever He says, that is law. Still He does not act in that way. He gives reference to the śāstras. This is mentioned in the śāstra. In the Bhāgavata also it is mentioned, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said... Even Kṛṣṇa does not say unauthoritatively. He gives reference to the śāstras. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, although He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead, brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaṁ. Brahma-sūtra, Vedānta-sūtra-He's giving reference. So don't talk anything which is not authorized in the statement of śāstra. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, has given us, not whimsically, although He can give any law. He is the Supreme Lord. Dharmaṁ tu sakṣad bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Whatever the Lord says, that is the principle of religion. So we do not know whether Caitanya Mahāprabhu is God or not, but śāstra says He is, so whatever He says, that is dharma.



*So this is the important point, that sa tu ātma*-yonir ativismita. He became very much surprised: "Wherefrom I am coming, and where I am situated? What is the purpose?" So to understand all these intricacies, he had to undergo... It was ordered: tapo. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there was a sound vibration. When Brahmā was perplexed there was a sound vibration. That sound vibration was indirectly said that "You undergo tapasya. Tapasya. Then you'll understand wherefrom you have come, why you have come, what is your business. These things will be revealed." Tapasya. So that tapasya he had to perform many hundreds years. Nābhinandat, avindad abda-śatam apsu. Not only he... He had to go underneath the water, apsu, and he performed tapasya there. Just imagine how much difficult it was to go underneath the water. He first of all wanted to search out "Wherefrom my birth is?" Then he saw the stem of the lotus flower on which he was sitting, and then he found there is water. So he went within the water. It is said, apsu. And there he executed tapasya.

*So this human form of life, we are born out of Brahmā. Brahmā is called, therefore, great*-grandfather. Not great-grand... Grandfather. He is called grandfather. Because Manu, from Manu we have come, therefore our name is mānuṣya, "man," from the word Manu. That Manu is born of Brahma. Therefore he is called grandfather, pitāmahā. And Kṛṣṇa has been addressed in the Bhagavad-gītā, "the great-grandfather." So He is the father of Brahmā also. Ātma-yoni. So this is the position of Brahmā. So he had to undergo so great austerity to understand his position, so how much austerity we have to perform to understand our position: "What I am? What is my business? Why I have come here? Why I am suffering?" Everyone is suffering, but we are so callous, so rascal, we don't take care of it. We say, "That's all right. I shall die peacefully." Yes. I met one very exalted man, lord, in London.

Haṁsadūta: Brockway. Lord Brockway.



*Prabhupāda: Eh? Oh, yes, Brockway. So, of course, we offered him prasādam very friendly. So I asked Lord Brockway, "What is the end of your life? How do you think?" He was eighty*-four years old. So he said, "Yes, I shall die peacefully." And after death? "Oh, there is nothing. That's all." This is the idea. So, actually people do not know what is going to happen after death. Therefore they are irresponsible. They are living like animals. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. You have got responsibility." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "Don't live irresponsibly. This body," ayaṁ deha, "this body..." Deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke. Nṛ-loke means in the human society, not cat society, dog society, fly society. In the human society. You should not live irresponsibly like the cats and dogs. It has especially mentioned, viḍ-bhujām: "the stool-eater, pig." "You should not be like the stool-eater pig." Why this animal has been drawn? The, means, stool-eater pig means the pig has no distinction of eating. Whatever is there, up to stool, he can eat.



So if the human society has no discrimination of eating anything... Now I understand they're eating..., they are killing their own child, and the child is also being eaten. Who was telling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I was telling.



*Prabhupāda: Just see how much the human society has degraded. One side, they're killing their own child, and after killing it, they're cooking it, and it becomes a very good delicacy. Just see. So this is the surety of become a pig, less than a pig. You see? But they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. This human life was meant for understanding Viṣṇu, God, but they did not use it. So thus, try to understand how much important is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how we are trying to save the whole human society from their irresponsible life.



So we have to undergo tapasya because our grandfather, he had to undergo tapasya. So anyone who is in this material world, Brahmā, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, must undergo tapasya. But for the ant, cats and dogs, it is not possible. They are condemned. They will have to come to the human form of life by evolutionary process by the help of nature. But as soon as we come to the human form of life, the responsibility is there. What is that responsibility? Because you have got developed consciousness more than the cats and dogs, you have to decide, "How I have come to this material world? Why I am suffering? I do not wish to die. The death is there. I do not want disease. The disease is there. I don't want to take birth, enter into the womb of the mother. Still I am forced to do it. I don't want to become an old man. I become old man." So this is human intelligence. Unless you come to this intelligence, athāto brahma jijñāsā, "What I am? Am I this body or something else...?"

*So we have to analyze, analyze that this body is made of the material elements: earth, water, fire, ether, like that. The... We are breathing. What is this breathing? We are very much proud of breathing. Eh? The breathing is simply ventilation, air. But you cannot set up this breathing to a dead man. That is not possible, although it is simply air, nothing but air. But as soon as it is gone out of it... You are great scientist. Bring this air, pump. No, there is no life. So in this way there is analysis. From water we are getting blood. From blood we are getting semina. From urine... So many things we are getting. So this body is manufactured by these things, by the material elements. So am I this body? If I am this body, then after the death why...? These material elements are there. Why you cannot replace it? I am not body. I'm living within the body. And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara [Bg. 2.13]. Asmin dehe: "In this body there is the living entity."

*So one has to learn this. But they cannot learn because they do not undergo austerity. That is the defect. No education is there how to perform austerity. Therefore Vedic civilization is how to teach small children austerities. That is brahmacārī. So we want to start this brahmacārī āśrama, or gurukula, to learn austerity from the beginning of life. Then their life will be successful. They'll understand. Not to become a grammarian. That is not our... So we should take lesson from Brahmājī, our grandfather, that pariśuddha*-bhāvāḥ tīvra-tapasā. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, mercy, that we haven't got to undergo tīvra-tapasā. But we are thinking, "This is also very difficult." What is that? No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. But they are taking it very, very severe. What is the severity? We don't say "No sex," but "No illicit sex." This much tapasya, austerity, you cannot follow? Tapasya must be there. Unless you undergo tapasya, there is no rescue. Even Brahmā had to perform tapasya, what to speak of us. You cannot avoid it. Tapasā brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya begins from brahmacarya: no illicit sex, no sex. But that is not possible. At least stop illicit sex. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. This is very important thing.

*So we should always remember that without... Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1]. Ṛṣabhadeva advised His sons, "My dear sons, this human form of life, don't live like cats and dogs. Don't spoil your life." Then what to do? Now, tapaḥ: "Undergo..." Just like Brahmā was advised. Brahmā is the son of Viṣṇu, so when he was perplexed, the same advice was given, tapaḥ. So he underwent. He underwent tapasā, tīvra*-tapasā. Tīvra means very severe. So we are advised, tīvra, tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena. It is said in the śāstra,

akāmaḥ sarva kāmo vā

*mokṣa kāma udāra*-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣaḥ

[SB 2.3.10]



*This is injunction. We are mixed up. Somebody has got all desire to fulfill within this material world, sarva*-kāma. They never become desireless-increasing, increasing, increasing, one after another. And that is... They are called sarva-kāmaḥ. And akāma means no more desire. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So we have to purify ourself. So to purify ourself means don't desire anything material. "Then I shall become void of desire?" No, not void of desire. Real desire must be there. Therefore we are singing daily, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā koriyā mane āśa **. Āra... "No more. That's all." Āra nā koriyā mane āśa. We are singing daily. You must understand what is the meaning. Because we are bewildered, we are misdirected, So, so guru's word, that should be taken seriously. Āra nā koriyā... "No more, anything." That is... Therefore how much difficult it is to find out such guru. Ādau gurvāśrayam. First of all you have to accept guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So we have to follow guru.



*"So how I can find out the real guru by whose words I'll be nicely directed and achieve?" That is not very difficult. You read Bhagavad*-gītā. You'll understand. Just like Arjuna. When he was perplexed, he accepted Kṛṣṇa-guru. He said, śiṣyas te 'ham: [Bg. 2.7] "I become Your (disciple) now... We are talking friendly. The argument will not be ended. Now I become Your disciple." Śiṣyas te 'ham. Because as soon as one becomes a śiṣya... Śiṣya means under the order, regulation. A person cannot disobey the order of guru. Then he is śiṣya. If he argues, he's not śiṣya. He's not a śiṣya. Therefore Arjuna says, śiṣyas te 'ham: "I surrender, voluntarily surrender to become Your disciple. Now I shall not argue." That is called śiṣya. If you argue, then you are not a śiṣya. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā, āra nā koriyā mane āśa **. This is tapasya, that "I shall not act anything which is not ordered by my guru," that tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā [SB 5.5.1]. Then we'll be nicely guided, and then sattva śuddhyam... Then our this existence will be purified. And as soon as our existence is purified, then we realize the situation, what is God, what is our relationship with Him, what is our activities, athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādya asya yataḥ, everything.

*Here it is, tu ātmani īśa bhuvi. So what was the realization of Brahmā after tapasya? Now, gandham iva atisūkṣmaṁ bhūtendriya. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca: "I am the smell within the earth." So everyone knows there is smell within the earth. There is color within the earth. Everything is there within the earth. Otherwise how in a particular plant the color and the smell, the flavor, and everything is..., beauty, everything is coming? You daily see. So ordinarily you see heaps of dirt, but everything is there. Similarly, ordinarily we see this universe, but in every atom there is Kṛṣṇa. That was realized by Brahmā. Then he became the great personality to teach us. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye, In this way he instructed ādi-kavi, the first learned man-kavi means learned man-Brahma, Vedic knowledge. So there was no other teacher. Kṛṣṇa taught him. Therefore we belong to the Brahma-sampradāya. Kṛṣṇa instructed Brahmā. Brahmā instructed Nārada. Nārada instructed Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva instructed Śukadeva. In this way our guru-paramparā system... Therefore we worship the guru as Vyāsa-pūjā because representative of Vyāsa. And who is Vyāsa? Representative of Nārada. What is Nārada? Representative of Brahmā. What is Brahmā? Representative of Kṛṣṇa. This is called paramparā system.

Thank you very much. (end)



760314SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.36

-

Māyāpur, March 14, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Then Lord Brahmā could see You possessing thousands and thousands of faces, legs, heads, hands, eyes, noses, and ears. You were decorated with varieties of ornaments and weapons and very nicely dressed. Seeing You as Lord Viṣṇu with Your transcendental symptoms and form, Your legs extending to the lower planets, Lord Brahmā achieved transcendental bliss."



Prabhupāda:



*evaṁ sahasra*-vadanāṅghri-śiraḥ-karoru-

*nāsādya*-karṇa-nayana ābharaṇayudhāḍhyam

*māyāmayaṁ sad*-upalakṣita-sanniveśaṁ

*dṛṣṭvā mahā*-puruṣam āpa mudaṁ viriñcaḥ

[SB 7.9.36]



*So in the previous verse we understood that Lord Brahmā executed severe austerity for hundreds of years just to become purified. Tīvra*-tapasā pariśuddha-bhāvaḥ. Bhāva, situation, or nature, bhāva, nature also... So we have a bhāva, nature, at the present moment which is not real bhāva. We have acquired this bhāva on account of long, long years' material association. But this bhāva can be changed. That is spiritual. Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī also says bhāva, and another place, in Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ, bhāva [Bg. 10.8].



*So at the present moment we have got a bhāva: "I am this. I am that. I belong to this family. I belong to this nation." Bhāva is ecstasy, and everyone is overwhelmed with such kind of ecstasy. The politicians, they think that we are simply wasting time in chanting and dancing. "They have no sense how to improve the position of the country." They do not like because they are in different bhāva. But we are trying to change that bhāva. The bhāva must be there. The whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to purify the bhāva. Bhāva. That is stated here. Pariśuddha*-bhāva. We are not negativating everything. We are simply changing from material bhāva to spiritual bhāva. That's all. Here is a big building, but there are many other hundreds and thousands of big building in this district or in this country. But here the bhāva is changed. The bhāva is changed. In your country there are many big, big skyscraper buildings. In comparison to those buildings, this is nothing. But still, you have come, spending thousands of dollars here, to change the bhāva. That is the... That is required. Otherwise you American boys and girls, you have no business to come here to see this big building. No. To change the bhāva, that requires. That is very important thing.

So,

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*Hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanam. That bhāva is changed. Bhakti means to change the bhāva. At the present moment we are in a different bhāva. It has to be cleansed, pariśuddha-bhāva. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpena or pariśuddha, clarified, cleansed bhāva. We have nothing to reject. Simply we have to change the bhāva. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ.



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



Budhā, those who are intelligent, budhā... Bodha. Bodha means intelligence, knowledge, and budhā, those who have got knowledge. So this is knowledge.



*So Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, began austerity to change the bhāva. He is the first created living being. How much great he is. But because he came into this material world... He is coming from Viṣṇu, ātmā*-yoni. Not only Brahmā, every one of us, we are coming from Viṣṇu. Every one of us, like the small sparks of fire, we are coming from the big fire. That's a fact. But as soon as we come to this material world, our, that quality, fiery quality, extinguished. Therefore we have to revive the fiery quality, change of bhāva. Pariśuddha-bhāva. As soon as I come... The same example: the big fire and there are sparks, small fire. We are not big fire; *we are small, sparklike. The spark, so long it is with the fire, it is very beautiful. The fire is also beautiful, and the spark is also beautiful. And if by chance the fire falls down, the small... The big fire never falls down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is acyuta. He never falls down. If He comes in this material world, He does not fall down. Etad īśanam īśasya. This is His all*-powerful. He comes also in this material world. He says, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. Paritrāṇāya. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmi [Bg. 4.7]. He also comes, but He does not fall down. We fall down.

*The Māyāvādī philosopher cannot understand this. They think that anyone who comes in this material world, he falls under the influence of māyā. That is right for the small living entities, as we are. That is not correct for the Supreme. Therefore they misunderstand Kṛṣṇa in His activities, especially when He dances with the gopīs. Therefore a neophyte person should not try to understand Kṛṣṇa's dancing with the gopīs immediately, because they do not know Kṛṣṇa. So here if we do something against the moral principles, we are liable to be punished. But Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa it is stated in the Īśopaniṣad, apāpa-viddham. You know this. Apāpa-viddham. (aside:) Who is that? He does not become affected by any pāpa, apāpa-viddham. That is His nature. Etad īśanam īśasya. Just like we go into the fire*-we become burned into ashes. But there are some others, not... We cannot see, but if Kṛṣṇa enters... Yes, there are many. Just like in the forest fire all the Vṛndāvana inhabitants they became very much afraid of the forest fire, Vṛndāvana, the cows and the cowherd boys and inhabitants. But they had no other means how to stop. They began to pray to Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, save us." So Kṛṣṇa swallowed up the fire. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. So this difference of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's greatness we can see when we have purified ourself, tīvra-tapasā pariśuddha-bhāvaḥ. Then it is possible. That is... The whole bhakti system means tīvra-tapasā pariśuddha-bhāvaḥ.

*So evaṁ sahasra*-vadana. Sahasra-vadana. This virāṭ-rūpa. This is māyāmayam. Kṛṣṇa's virāṭ-rūpa is another feature. His real rūpa or form is dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara, two hands. That is His original form. There is in the Brahma-saṁhitā,

*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



*That is Kṛṣṇa's real form. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam: "He is playing on flute." But here it is said that sahasra*-vadanāṅghri-śiraḥ-karoru. Here Brahmā saw He has got many sahasra... What is that? Sahasra-vadana, faces, aṅghri. As soon as there is face, as soon as there is one face, there must be two legs, two hands. So He appeared before Brahmā with thousands of faces. So similarly, number of hands and legs must increase proportionately. So Lord Brahmā saw Him in His virāṭa-rūpam, virāṭ-rūpam. Kṛṣṇa, Brahman, Brahman, Para-brahman. Para-brahman means the great, the great. And He is Para-brahman. Nobody is greater than Him. So if anyone wants to see Kṛṣṇa in His Para-brahman rūpa, then He exhibits His virāṭ-rūpa. Just like Arjuna saw virāṭ-rūpa, the same. But that is not His natural form. That is māyāmayam. Because one... Suppose one wants to see God and he is not very advanced. Even if he's advanced, sometimes we want to see the superior in His great opulence.



*But the Vṛndāvana-vāsī, they are so affectionate, so attached to Kṛṣṇa, they do not want. They do not want to know what is God. They simply want Kṛṣṇa, to love. This is Vṛndāvana. There is no necessity. Kṛṣṇa manifested in so many ways big, big activities in Vṛndāvana, killing daily almost a demon. But still, the Vṛndāvana-vāsī did not accept Him as the Supreme Lord. They thought that some demigod has appeared. They did not know that He is the Supreme Lord. That is another māyā, yoga-māyā. If the Vṛndāvana-vāsī saw Kṛṣṇa that He is the Supreme Lord, then they could not love Him so nicely, because too much opulent conception diminishes natural love. Therefore in the Vṛndāvana there is no such exhibition of Kṛṣṇa's form. But in the material world, just to convince Brahmā that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He appeared, sahasra vadanāṅghri-śiraḥ-karoru-nāsādya-karṇa-nayanābharaṇaya*-a yudhāḍhyam. Not only many faces, many ears, many legs, but each of them very nicely decorated. You have seen the picture of Lord Viṣṇu, very decorated, very much decorated. But you'll see Kṛṣṇa, He is decorated with the Vṛndāvana flowers. That is Kṛṣṇa's real form. He does not appear with many hands, many ornaments, many... No. Simple boy.

*So yaśodā*-nandana gopī-jana-rañjana yamunā-tīra... What is that?

*Devotees: Vana*-cārī.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always yaśodā*-nandana. He is always ready to be chastised by mother Yaśodā, by the gopīs, and sometimes by His friends. That is Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa. That is real Kṛṣṇa; *that is real God. And this form of God as Brahmā saw, virāṭ*-rūpa, that is māyāmayam. Because Brahmā, such exalted person, he was meant for creating this universe, he becomes bewildered, seeing Kṛṣṇa as a cowherd boy. That was also exhibited. When Brahmā understood that "A cowherd boy in Vṛndāvana is said to be the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, my master," so he also examined whether Kṛṣṇa, that boy, was his master. He took away His calves and cowherd boys for a second, and he saw that Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself to so many cows and calves and cowherd boys. Then he submitted. Similarly, Indra also wanted to examine Him. So everyone... Śiva-viriñci-nutam [SB 11.5.33]. Yatra muhyanti sūrayaḥ. So even Lord Brahmā, Lord Indra, and others, big, big demigods, they become bewildered to understand Kṛṣṇa. So Brahmā saw the virāṭ-rūpa. Māyāmayaṁ sad-upalakṣita-sanniveśaṁ dṛṣṭvā mahā-puruṣam āpa mudaṁ viriñcaḥ. But when he saw the Lord, he was very, very happy.



*So our... Pure Vaiṣṇava, they do not want to see even Kṛṣṇa. They are satisfied with the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy. Āśliṣya vā pāda*-rataṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā. Marma-hatāṁ karotu vā [Cc. Antya 20.47]. A pure Vaiṣṇava, he simply always expects, "When that time will come, Kṛṣṇa will be pleased to accept me?" Otherwise he is not very hasty. But he is interested with the service. That is pure Vaiṣṇava. A pure Vaiṣṇava can go to the hell for serving Kṛṣṇa, but he is not aspirant for his personal comfort. Any condition... Mama janmani janmanīśvare. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. Āśliṣya va pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very great movement, more valuable than the conception of Lord Śiva or Lord Brahmā, because it is given by Kṛṣṇa personally, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So do not try to see Kṛṣṇa in His virāṭ form. Simply try to serve Him in humble position. Then your life will be successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760315SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.37

-

Māyāpur, March 15, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Lord, when You appeared as Hayagrīva with a head like that of a horse to kill the two demons named Madhu and Kaiṭabha, who were full of the modes of passion and ignorance, after killing the demons You delivered the Vedic knowledge to Lord Brahmā. Therefore all the great saintly persons accept Your forms as transcendental, untinged by material qualities."



Prabhupāda:



tasmai bhavān haya-śiras tanuvaṁ hi bibhrad

*veda*-druhāv atibalau madhu-kaiṭabhākhyau

*hatvānayac chruti*-gaṇāṁś ca rajas tamaś ca

sattvaṁ tava priyatamāṁ tanum āmananti

[SB 7.9.37]



*So spiritual kingdom is beyond this material world made of three modes of material nature, sattva*-rajas-tamaḥ. So when incarnation of the Supreme Lord comes... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Kṛṣṇa has given us. We are fallen down from the spiritual kingdom to this material world on account of desiring to fulfill our material senses. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has given us the Vedic literatures. Anādi bahir mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela. This is the statement in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā. Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa anadi... Anadi means before the beginning of this creation. The beginning of this creation is called ādi, beginning, but our forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa is anādi. Anādi. Anādi bahir mukha. We are working in this life, in this material world, struggling for existence to get happiness. That is the aim of life. But because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, we do not know the source of happiness. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The ānandamaya-vigraha, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Still, we are searching after ānanda, blissfulness. This is our struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. We are in this prakṛti, in this material nature, prakṛti-sthāni, and, being dictated by the mind, making plans to become happy, but that is not possible. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni. This is... Due to our forgetfulness, we are struggling for existence to get happiness, but because we do not know what is the source of happiness, it is called struggle for existence. This is going on.



*So this is going on not only in this life, before this life also, anādi, anādi. So once we get the chance to understand what is the problem of life, and this human life is given a chance. By evolution, by nature's way, 8,400,000 species of life we are coming through. Then the nature has given one chance, this human form of life. Now it is for understanding what is our position. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. But if we do not take care of this questioning... Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. Sanātana Gosvāmī placed this inquiry before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. To approach guru means to inquire about himself, "What I am?" That is intelligence. Sanātana Gosvāmī was the minister. He was very opulent. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. But when he came to his senses after meeting Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he wanted to know, "What I am?" This is real inquiry. He could be very satisfied to get answer himself that "I am minister. I have got so big salary. I get so much respect." No, he was not satisfied. He went to guru, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Vedic injunction is, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Everyone is conscious of the struggle for existence, but they are not serious enough that "Why this struggle for existence?" That "Why?" required. That is human life. The dog is suffering. He is hungry, he's going to a place for some food, and instead of food, he's getting a stroke by the stick. He barks very... He's disappointed that "I wanted food, but I got the stick." (laughter) "I wanted bread; *I got stone." This is going on. This is going on. And therefore, in the human society also, they are also struggling and making plans for economic development so that instead of stone, they can get bread. But the struggle is going on. There is no settlement. That is not possible. That is not possible. Either you go to this country or that country, you accept this "ism" or that "ism," unless you come to Kṛṣṇa, there is no possibility of peace. That is stated, very simple words, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that how to stop this struggle for existence.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*So this is going on. As soon as there is creation... Brahmā was created and he was given the Vedic knowledge. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. We get it. Brahmā was born. He was to establish the kingdom of God or, as Brahmā was born, the other living entities also were in the body of Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu. They were also to take birth later on. And before their birth, Brahmā was instructed Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means these bewildered living entities struggling for existence may get Vedic knowledge so that they can revive their old, original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the purpose of Vedic knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. The Vedic... What is Vedic knowledge? Vedic knowledge means to revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Vedic knowledge. If you revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the perfection of Vedic knowledge. But if you read only Vedas and perform formalities, ritualistic ceremonies, but you do not awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is useless waste of time. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,



dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viśvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*You may be a very religious person-never mind you are Hindu, Muslim or Christian or anyone*-or according to your religious principles, ritualistic ceremonies, you execute very nicely. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. But after doing all these things, if you do not become God consciousness, God conscious, or you do not understand what is God, then the Bhāgavata says that it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.



*So human life is meant for understanding the Supreme, our connection with the Supreme Being. That is real human life. Therefore the Vedas are there. So as soon as Brahmā was born... Because he is in charge of this universe... There are innumerable universes and innumerable Brahmās also. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. So Brahmā is jagad-aṇḍa-nātha. He's the chief person within this material world, in this universe. So he is in charge; *therefore he was given the Vedic knowledge. And he got the Vedic knowledge, but at the same time, two demons known as Madhu*-Kaiṭabha, they wanted to snatch away, take away the Vedic mantras from Brahmā. This is the attempt from the very beginning. The devotees following the disciplic succession of Brahmā... Just like we are. We belong to the Brahma-sampradāya. Several times I have explained. So our original guru is Brahmā, Svayambhū. Therefore he is one of the great personality, svayambhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kapilaḥ kaumāro manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. These are twelve mahājanas, men of authority. So Brahmā is man of authority, the demigod, the supreme demigod, the best of the demigods. So these Madhu-Kaiṭabha, Madhu-kaiṭabha, they took away. Rajas-tamaḥ. Why? They were full of rajas-tamas, and Brahmā is sattva-guṇa.

*So sattva*-guṇa and rajas-tamaḥ. This material world, there is three qualities, so there is always struggle. If you want to remain in the sattva-guṇa, then the rajas-tamo guṇa, they will give you trouble. Rajas-tamo-bhāvaḥ. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. So we are trying to introduce this sattva-guṇa, and above sattva-guṇa, śuddha-sattva. This sattva-guṇa... Just like sometimes we experience that one person is elevated to the brahminical principle, sannyāsī principle, but all of a sudden he falls down, he becomes a demon. We have got experience. He becomes demon. Very high... So this material world is so contaminated that even you are on the sattva-guṇa, there is chance of being contaminated by the rajas-tamo guṇa. The struggle is there. Therefore we have to become very, very careful. Or Kṛṣṇa will help. If you want to remain in sattva-guṇa, in purity, then Kṛṣṇa will help. Just like here, as soon as Brahmā was disturbed by the demons full of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, immediately the Lord came in Hayagrīva-mūrti incarnation. That is... Kṛṣṇa is also very much anxious to give us... Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ pranaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. If you remain a pure devotee, always surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, you should know it very well that Kṛṣṇa will give you protection in any calamity. Don't be worried. Simply we must have the faith. That is surrender. Surrender means avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa, viśvāsa pālana. You must be faithful that "I am engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. I may go to hell or heaven. It doesn't matter. I am going to serve Him. It is sure that Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." So there should be no hesitation. If somebody is ordered, "Go to hell and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness," he should remain faithful to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa will give all protection. This is the principle. Kṛṣṇa's business is yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmi [Bg. 4.7], paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca... [Bg. 4.8]. The sādhu... Sādhu means Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, sādhu, not this dress. If you are always keeping Kṛṣṇa within yourself, then you are sādhu. And you are yogi also.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo ma...

[Bg. 6.47]



*These things are there always. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So those who are always keeping Kṛṣṇa within the heart, they are sādhu. So paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. They are sad... They are sādhus. Sādhu means who are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa.



*So here, as Brahmā was protected from the great demons Madhu*-Kaiṭabha, Prahlāda Mahārāja was protected from the great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu. There are many, many instances. So the demons are always there. They are always ready to disturb devotees. That is going on. But a devotee's business is to revive the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the conditioned soul. That is devotee's business. As Kṛṣṇa comes personally to give them some help, similarly, Kṛṣṇa's servants also, they take Kṛṣṇa's business and try to help these fallen conditioned souls to revive their original Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So here is the example, that Brahmā was given the Vedic knowledge. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. Brahmā is ādi-kavi. He's the first learned man within this universe. We do not follow this nonsense Darwin's theory. Our beginning of this creation is from the most learned man, Brahmā, not from the monkey. (laughter) We do not follow this rascal philosophy. We do not follow. So our beginning is Lord Brahmā, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, empowered to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic knowledge. Why Vedas there? Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karilā. So Veda-Purāṇa is required. Why the Vedas are there for us? To revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the gist of the Vedas, the śāstra, is Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-śāstra vinijya (?). So if we read Bhagavad-gītā carefully, spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and follow it according to the direction of the Brahmā and his disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa will give you all protection from the demons. There is no doubt. That is Kṛṣṇa's business. He said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Dharmasya glāniḥ means discrepancy in the matter of understanding Vedas. That is dharmasya glāniḥ.

*We have read in the Sixth Chapter, veda*-vihitaṁ dharma: "Dharma means which is enjoined, which is ordered by the Vedas." Śruti. Caitanya... Our Rūpa Gosvāmī said,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātriki*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kal...

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*So we must follow śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-śāstra-vidhi. Kṛṣṇa condemns such persons, rascals, who do not accept this śāstra-vidhi and manufacture something. This rascal has spoiled the whole world. No. Śāstra-vidhi, the Vedic knowledge. Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karilā. So we have to take protection of the Vedic knowledge, and that is summarized, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the ripened fruit of Vedic knowledge. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam [SB 1.1.3]. Kalpa-taru, the tree... You get a tree. You protect tree. So this Vedic knowledge is called kalpa-taru. Kalpa-taru means whatever you want, you can get from the tree. Here we have got experience, you can get mango from the mango tree, but a kalpa-taru, you can get mango, apple, pineapple, anything. That is called kalpa-taru. So from the Vedas you can get all kinds of knowledge-material, spiritual, anything. Therefore it is called kalpa-taru. And the kalpa-taru... A taru means tree, and the tree... We nourish tree to get a nice fruit. So this Bhāgavatam is the fruit of the Vedic tree, kalpa-taru, and it is ripened also, not unripened. Unripened fruit you cannot eat, but ripened, ripened in the tree, mango, is very palatable. So it is nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam [SB 1.1.3].



*So if we read Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā, these two literatures, then we get all Vedic knowledge, and then we can revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And to do this business there is no difficulty. Kṛṣṇa will give you all protection, provided you remain, I mean to say, adhere to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etaṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. The māyā will not touch you. You'll be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



760317SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.39

-

Māyāpur, March 17, 1976



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Lord from the Vaikuṇṭha planets, where there is no anxiety, my mind is extremely sinful and lusty. It is sometimes so*-called happy and sometimes so-called distressed. It is full of lamentation and fear and always anxious to get more and more money. In this way my mind has become most polluted. It is never satisfied, and therefore I am very fallen and poor. In such a status of life, how will it be possible for me to discuss Your activities?"



Prabhupāda:



*naitan manas tava kathāsu vikuṇṭha*-nātha

*samprīyate durita*-duṣṭam asādhu tīvram

*kāmāturaṁ harṣa-śoka*-bhayaiṣaṇārtaṁ

tasmin kathaṁ tava gatiṁ vimṛśāmi dīnaḥ

[SB 7.9.39]



This is our position. This material world and the spiritual world, the difference is very nicely explained here. One place is no anxiety; in another place it is simply full of anxiety. This is the difference. (aside:) Ask them.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja in another place has said also the same thing. When his father asked him, "What is the best thing you have learned, my dear boy, from your school?" so he immediately addressed his father as asura*-varya. Why? Now, because this thing, free of anxiety, is not understandable by the asuras. They want anxiety. They'll create such situation. They'll put themselves in anxiety and try to come out of it. That is their heroic activities. This is the difference between the asura and the sura, devatā. The devatās, or the devotees... There are two different types of men. One is asura, and the other is devotee, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja and his father Hiranyakasipu. These two types of men are there in this world. And the difference we can see, that Prahlāda Mahārāja is simply satisfied with Kṛṣṇa. Prahlāda Mahārāja says,

*naivodvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ

[SB 7.9.43].



Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he saw Nṛsiṁhadeva, very fierceful... Even mother Lakṣmī, the goddess of fortune, who is constant companion of the Lord, she also became afraid, and what to speak of other demigods like Brahma, Lord Śiva and Indra and so many others? All of them became afraid. Nobody could approach Him. He was so angry. But Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "I am not afraid." He said, "I am not afraid."

*Naivodvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ.



*A devotee who is always absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa and His activities... We are therefore presenting Kṛṣṇa and His activities. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All these books which we are distributing and publishing, what is this? This is Kṛṣṇa and His activities, that's all. Tvad*-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna. So if you simply read our books very carefully, then immediately this disease of heart palpitation, anxiety, will cease because on account of the dirty things, product of this tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa... That is disturbing us. We are covered by the tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, rajas-tamaḥ. So rajas-tamaḥ means greediness and lusty desires. This is rajas-tamaḥ. So we have to... If we actually want to become free from anxieties, then we have to learn how to kill this, or how to avoid this anxiety due to rajas-tamo bhāvaḥ [SB 1.2.19].

*So first of all we have to try to come to the platform of goodness. There are three platforms: tamo*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and sattva-guṇa. So immediately we cannot come to the pure sattva-guṇa, śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva-śabditam, vasudeva platform... Just like Vasudeva is the father of Kṛṣṇa, so there is vasudeva platform also. Unless one comes to the vasudeva platform, there is no question of Kṛṣṇa, because Vasudeva can beget Kṛṣṇa, or Vāsudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. So actually we have to come to the platform of Vāsudeva, Vāsudeva-śabditam, and that is śuddha-sattva. But it is not immediately possible. Therefore gradually, from the platform of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, we have to come to the sattva-guṇa. Or in other words, we have to acquire the qualities of a brāhmaṇa. Therefore this is initiation, how to bring one to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Catur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. So this is necessary. From this material platform to come to the spiritual platform one has to become a qualified brāhmaṇa.

*So this process, that we first of all accept anyone who is prepared to chant, we accept to give him hari-nāma*-what is the idea? The idea is that he'll gradually become brāhmaṇa. Of course, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is beyond the position of brāhmaṇa. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is meant for the nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ. Nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ means one who has finished all kinds of desires, all kinds of material desires. For him... Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. But for the ordinary man, bhavauṣadhi, even it is meant for the liberated person, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, but still, those who are not liberated, if he chants, then he becomes cured from the material desires. Kāmāturam. Material desires... Kāmāturaṁ harṣa-śoka-bhayaiṣaṇārtam. This is material desires. We are full of lusty desires, kāma, kāmāturam, and therefore you are distressed. Our distressed condition is due to lusty desires, kāmāturam. And the result is harṣa-śokaḥ. When we can fulfill our desires-"I am very much inclined to a woman or a man"-kāmāturam, lusty desires, if we can fulfill, then it is very nice, harṣa: "Oh, I am very successful." And if you cannot fulfill, then śoka. Two things are there. Śoka, there are so many things. We have got practical examples. The so-called loving affairs of man and woman ends in even murder. We have got experience. So śokāturam. The lusty desires means for the time being it may be very happy condition, but the result is śoka. It will end. Either illicit sex or legal sex, the end is śoka, śoka, lamentation. There are many examples, practical.

*So this kāmāturam, this lusty desire, is not good. Either you do it legally or illegally, the result is śokaḥ. That we must understand. Unforunately, although the result ..., everyone knows practical experience, that nobody has become happy by these sex affairs. There is a Urdu word, they say durlika-lugdu, yo khāyā abhipastāyā yo na khāyā abhipastāyā.(?) The meaning is "There is a lugdu"*-you know lugdu, of course-"lugdu which is known as durlikalugdu. So this durlikalugdu is so dangerous, one who has eaten it, he's also lamenting, and one who has not eaten it, he's also lamenting." (laughter) Durlika lugdu ya khāyā abhipastāyā ya na khāyā abhipastāyā. So this man and woman connection is durlikalugdu. One who has married, he's also lamenting, and who is not married, he's also lamenting. So this is the thing. The śāstra also says... Not only... Any experienced man will say like that, that "Both ways, it is simply lamentation."

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ [SB 7.9.45]. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā. There are two classes of men, kṛpaṇa and brāhmaṇa. The opposite word of brāhmaṇa is kṛpaṇa. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. This life, human life, is meant for understanding Brahman, the Absolute Truth. So a person who has understood what is Brahman-ahaṁ brahmāsmi-so he is called brāhmaṇa. Anyone who understands Brahman, he is brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. And one who does not understand, he's kṛpaṇa. In the Upaniṣad also it is said, etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa brāhmaṇaḥ, etad aviditvā yaḥ prayāti sa kṛpaṇaḥ. This human life is meant for understanding Brahman-athāto brahma jijñāsā, Vedānta-simply meant for understanding Brahman, such a nice life, human life, not cats' and dogs' life. In everywhere the same thing is repeatedly said. Ṛṣabhadeva says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhati viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "This human life is not meant for acting like the pigs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhati. So it is meant for becoming a brāhmaṇa. And one who does not become a brāhmaṇa-become a pig-he's kṛpaṇa, kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means he got the chance of becoming a brāhmaṇa, but he remained a cat and dog and pig. That's all. Kṛpaṇa. And if I give you, say, ten thousand rupees, that "You take this, do some business and be happy," but you could not do anything, simply kept the money and see it or spoil it, then you are kṛpaṇa. You could not use it. And there are others who can increase.

*So we got this human form of life, we could..., we are advanced in consciousness, and if we increase this consciousness to the ultimate goal, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our life is successful. And if we could not do it*-we remain in the same cats and dogs consciousness, kāmāturam... Just like a dog is lusty dog, one dog, one female dog, and dozen of dogs is after her... You have seen nature's instruction. So that is kṛpaṇa life. We should not spoil our life by becoming a kṛpaṇa. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to raise the standard of the human society to become brāhmaṇa from the position of kṛpaṇa. This is the attempt. It may be a tiny attempt, humble attempt, but our aim is how these dogs and cats will become brāhmaṇa. This is our aim. We do not want to keep them in the position of cats and dogs and pigs. This is our attempt. So we may be successful or not successful, but our endeavor is very, very great. We should always remember that. Because these kṛpaṇas... Na tṛpyanti. Kṛpaṇa... What is that?

*yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ

*kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha*-duḥkham

*tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ

[SB 7.9.45]



*The kṛpaṇā bahu*-duḥkha-bhājaḥ, they know, "After the sex I'll have to meet so many botherations," either illicit or licit sex. Either you get so many diseases, syphilis and this, and from syphilis so many other disease, up to madness, up to leprosy, one disease after one disease, one disease. This sex... The sex syphilitic disease is called in India by the Ayurvedic physician as phairāṅga-roga. It has come from the Western country. I do not wish to discuss, but the point is that illicit sex has many, many aftereffects who is not very nice. And even it is legal sex, there is also botheration. If there is no botheration, why they are killing their own child? There is botheration. Sex life is botheration. Therefore it should be controlled, undoubtedly. And the last control is to become a sannyāsī, bās. Āra na re bāpa:(?) "No more." That is called...



*So whole Vedic civilization is to reduce this propensity, kāmāturam. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's recommendation. Because if we remain kāmāturam, sexually inclined, then we'll be subjected only to these processes, harṣa-śoka*-bhayaiṣaṇārta. In this way we shall be always disturbed. And it will be disturbed mind. You cannot think of the Absolute Truth. That is not possible. The mind must be peaceful. But there is one very easy method to control the mind from these disturbances. What is that? The yoga system means the control the disturbed mind. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Real yoga means to control the mind and the senses. That is yoga. Because without controlling the mind and the senses, there is no question of spiritual advancement. That is not possible. Without controlling the mind, there is no question of spiritual advancement. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advised to Arjuna that "You practice yoga," in the Sixth Chapter, "so that you'll be able to control the mind." But Arjuna said that "Control the mind is very difficult for me, Kṛṣṇa. I cannot practice this yoga system." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham: [Bg. 6.34] "Mind is very restless, and it is very difficult to control." Tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye vāyor iva suduṣkaram: "I think to control the mind is still more difficult than to control the wind." Nobody can control the wind. So Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna said, "Even though I am able to control the wind, I cannot control my mind. It is so strong." So Kṛṣṇa recommended... Kṛṣṇa not discouraged Arjuna. Arjuna is a family man, and he went to the war field to gain his victory. So everyone is engaged in some such engagement, occupational duty, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, in this world. And so mind is very difficult to control. But Kṛṣṇa gave the easy method:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo (mataḥ)

[Bg. 6.47]



If you can keep Kṛṣṇa always in your mind, then the whole thing is solved. This is easiest. So chant always Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...



Devotees: ...Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



*Prabhupāda: Then this kāmāturam mind will be controlled, and you'll not be subjected to this harṣa-śoka*-bhaya. This is the secret. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that in the Kali-yuga it is very, very difficult to come out this kāmāturam position. It is not possible. But if you chant the holy name of the Lord Hari... Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam, kalau... [Cc. Ādi 17.21].



Devotees: ...nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.



*Prabhupāda: So the verdict of the śāstra is the same everywhere in a different way. The perfection of life is, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that tava kathāsu vikuṇṭha*-nātha. One should be interested in Kṛṣṇa-kathā. We are interested in so many kathās. Because we purchase newspaper in the morning, so big volume, so many kathās are there. And we read many material dramas and novels and fictitious stories and killing stories. We are very much attached to these. All these kathās, means stories, we are interested, but we are not interested in Kṛṣṇa-kathā. Means I am interested in kathā, that is my nature, but it has become perverted on account of being contaminated by this material world. This is our position. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that naitan manas tava kathāsu vikuṇṭha-nātha samprīyate durita-duṣṭam asādhu tīvram. Because it is so polluted, asādhu, dishonest and bad, everything, whatever... The mind is dirty, full of dirty things.



*So in another place it is said, śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho abhadrāṇi [SB 1.2.17]. This is abhadra. The hṛdy antaḥ-stho, within the core of heart, there, so many nasty, dirty things, that is the material contamination. So it can be, I mean to say, avoided, or cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], Caitanya Mahāprabhu has assured. The whole process of education and advancement of civilization is how to cleanse the dirty mind. Why it is dirty? Kāmāturam: the lusty desire and greediness. So we should always remember this, that mind is the best friend and the worst enemy. If it remains kāmāturam, the worst enemy, and if it is Kṛṣṇa conscious, the best friend. So we have to control this mind. And that is very easy, as Ambarīṣa Mahārāja did, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. We have to fix up. This arcana-vidhi for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, everyone... The temple is meant for gradually making the mind thinking of Kṛṣṇa. You'll come to the temple, you'll see the Deity, you'll see Kṛṣṇa, you'll think of Kṛṣṇa, and if you increase... That is the system. Every man, every woman, used to go to the temple. This is our Vedic civilization, to make the mind Kṛṣṇa conscious, always Kṛṣṇa conscious. And then it will be possible to cleanse the mind from this... Yadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor nava-nava-rasa-dhāmanudyata rantum āsīt. If you make your mind fixed up in Kṛṣṇa and think of Kṛṣṇa's activities-tadāvadhi mama...

*Yadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*nava*-nava-rasa-dhāmanudyata rantum āsīt

*tadāvadhi bata nārī*-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



This kāmāturam mind will be cleansed. Not only be cleansed: if you thind of sex, you'll spite on it. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. (end)



760318SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.40

-

Māyāpur, March 18, 1976



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Lord, the infallible one, my high position is just like a person having more than one wife, the co*-wives trying to attract the husband in their own different ways. For example, the tongue is being attracted to palatable dishes. The genital wants to have sex with an attractive woman. The touch sensation is trying to contact soft things. The belly, although fulfilled, still wants to eat more. And generally the ear, without attempting to hear about You, is attracted for cinema songs. The smelling sensation is still another side; restless eyes to see sense gratificatory sense scenes; and the active senses attracting on another side. In this way I am embarrassed."



Prabhupāda:



jihvā ekato acyuta vikarṣati māvitṛptā

*śiśno 'nyatas tvag*-udaraṁ śravaṇaṁ kutaścit

*ghrāṇo anyataś capala*-dṛk kva ca karma-śaktir

*bahvyaḥ sapatnya iva geha*-patiṁ lunanti

[SB 7.9.40]



*It is a very good example. In the previous verse Prahlāda Mahārāja explained, naitan manas tava kathāsu vikuṇṭha-nātha samprīyate durita-duṣṭam asādhu tīvram. So Kṛṣṇa-kathā is not palatable. This is māyā's influence. So we cannot engage our senses for Kṛṣṇa. This is the disturbing condition of material world. Senses are there, I am there, and how the senses should be utilized, the subject matter is also there, but it is misled. This is called māyā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. So what is the business of the servant? The business of the servant is to carry out the order of the master. So the senses are... I am the body-taking for the time being*-and my senses, hands, legs, eyes, ears, tongue, genital, so many, ten senses, they are working senses and knowledge-gathering senses. There are so many senses. So if I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, then my senses should be always ready to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is real position. But we are not doing that. We shall wait, that "If I serve Kṛṣṇa, then where is the opportunity for my living condition?" No. There is good opportunity. Just like we want to eat. That is the first problem. So if we say, "Don't eat this," so that does not mean you don't eat. The eating is not prohibited, but eating independently, whimsically, that is prohibited. Just like to keep your health in good order, sometimes it is said, "You don't eat it." That does not mean eating is prohibited. The some particular thing is prohibited. But we are accustomed to satisfy our senses; therefore we are misled.



Here it is said that jihvā ekataḥ acyuta. The first important sense is jihvā, means tongue. So tongue is attracted by so many varieties of foodstuff. That is our good experience. As soon as you go out in the street, you'll find so many restaurants. Why so many restaurants? How they are going on? Because we have got the tongue, and the restaurant business can go on very nicely, attracting the tongue. Especially in Bombay you'll find. Practically every alternate shop is a restaurant. Similarly, I have seen in Germany, Hamburg. Every alternative shop is a drinking shop. (laughter) Trinken?

Devotee: Trinken.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Is it not the word? Trinken is "drinking," yes. Every shop... I have seen. One gentleman... What is gentleman? (laughter) He is sitting with glass of wine, and a young girl is also sitting. This is their very pleasing... And I have heard that in the working days or in the holidays, they do not remain at home, they go to the trinken shop. So jihvā is very, very strong. And another thing I have seen, that they pass urine on the street. Because they are habituated to drink too much, they pass urine without any shame. So this is the first important sense, jihvā. Ekata is... First the jihvā is attracting me.



Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura therefore says that we have got our senses, they are acting as enemies because the senses are misleading me. My senses are meant for serving Kṛṣṇa, but the māyā is misleading me, that "Why should you engage your senses in the service of Kṛṣṇa? You engage your senses in my service." Our position is to serve. That you cannot change, because we are made for giving service. We are not made for becoming master. But unfortunately every one of us is trying to be master by falsely engaging the service, especially the karmīs. The karmīs, they're working so hard day and night. Everywhere you see, they are working day and night. But the purpose is how to become master. They cannot become master, but the ambition is how to become master, how to become the richest man like such and such big man. This is going... This is called struggle for existence. Everyone is trying to become the master. Nobody is trying to become a servant. Ask anyone that "Why you are working so hard?" "No, I shall get so much money, I shall become very wealthy, I shall have so many servants, so many workers, and I shall control over them." That is trying to become master. Therefore the jihvā, in the very beginning, jihvā, the tongue, should be controlled. If we can control the tongue, then other senses will be automatically controlled.

*In the śāstra it is said that ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. These present indriyas, senses, they're misled. They are misled in different way. Although I am serving, but I am serving my senses. My position is not master but servant. I am trying to become master, but I have already become servant of my senses. So instead of becoming servant of Kṛṣṇa, I have become the servant of my senses. So my position as servant is there. Is it not? I am maintaining because I cannot change it. Suppose... Just like a woman. If a woman dresses like a man, does it mean that he (she) has become a man? No. Woman is woman; man is man. Simply by changing dress we cannot do that. Similarly, our constitutional position is to serve. And to serve whom? Kṛṣṇa. That is our constitutional position. But falsely we are trying to become master. Therefore, instead of becoming master, I have become the servant of my senses. This is our position. So the master is sense. The jihvā is my master. He is asking, "Why don't you come to this restaurant." "No, no, my belly is already filled up." "No, you must come." (laughter) You'll see. A man is coming from home after sumptuously eating, and as soon as he comes to the street, immediately he enters a restaurant and drinks a cup of tea and few biscuit or... Why? What is the necessity? You are already filled up in your belly, and still, again, immediately you are... "No, it is very palatable." So you are servant of your tongue. "Because it is palatable, although my belly is already filled up, so I must satisfy my tongue."

So I am master... I'm not master; *I'm servant of the tongue. Then just below the belly there is one genital. He has used it with his wife, and still, he goes to the prostitute. Servant. "Let us have some new taste." For tasting new sex enjoyment, people simply travel from one place to another. Especially nowadays, I have got experience in Delhi. I have seen. The foreigners, they are coming, ordering the manager that "I want this, I want that, because I have come here by the dictation of my genital." People go to Paris-I know many gentlemen-for satisfying the genital. So genital has become my master, the tongue has become my master, the hand has become my master, the leg has become my master, so I am the servant of so many masters. So my position is very precarious. How can you satisfy so many masters? Eh? Even in the animal kingdom, they are also servant, but they are servant of one sense. That is also described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like the fish. The fish is only strongly under the servitude of the tongue. Therefore the fishing tackle gives something eatable, and the fish immediately... It is not that it is hungry, but because the fish is so greedy-something nonsense is there in tackle*-he immediately..., and becomes caught up. Due to the strong inclination of eating, he loses his life. As soon as he's caught up, that... Similarly, other animal... Just like the deer is very fond of hearing nice music. The hunters play very nice music, and they come to hear, and he kills. So one is losing the life for strong tongue dictation, one is losing life for ear, and the elephant is captured by sex. You cannot capture elephant; *it is very strong animal. But there is trained she*-elephant. She allures the male elephant, and for sex the male elephant follows, and tactfully the elephant is put into a hole. He falls down. Then he is captured. Then for life he becomes a slave. Such a big animal, so strong, but by the trick of human being he becomes slave. So similarly, there is analysis. The one particular animal is strongly under the influence of a particular sense, but so far we human being, we are such a big animal that we are servant of all the senses. All the senses. An animal is servant of one sense, but the rational animal, because they are rational, rascal, rational... What is rationality? They cannot see even that "The animal is servant of one sense, and because I am rational animal, I have become servant of all the senses. I am utilizing my rationality in that way."

*So this is our position. Prahlāda Mahārāja is analyzing very nicely. We are servant eternally, but kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, pāsate māyā tare jāpaṭiyā dhare. As soon as we forget this principle, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa..." This material life means this forgetfulness. I am serving, it is a fact. And because I am serving my senses, that... Big, big leaders... Just like in your Western countries, there was Napoleon, there was Hitler, there was Mussolini, here also, big, big leaders, but what they are? Big, big servants of the senses, that's all. Big, big servants of the senses. Therefore Bhāgavata has said, sva*-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ: "These big, big leaders are big, big animals, that's all." Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. So there are many instructive verses in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam should be your life and soul to remain constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, yes, the unique gift of Śrī Vyāsadeva. Kalau naṣṭa-dṛśām eva purāṇārkaḥ adhunā uditaḥ.

*So therefore we have to purify our senses. Unless we purify our senses, we'll be disturbed by the demands of the senses*-one side, the tongue; one side, the ear; one side, the eyes; one side, the nose; one side, the hand; *one side, the leg. The example is given very nicely, that sapatnya iva geha*-patiṁ lunanti. Just like a man has got many wives. Here especially the kṣatriyas, they marry many wives. There is purpose also. The kṣatriyas are allowed in this way. Why? Because kṣatriyas are... Generally they are king. They have got money to maintain many wives. They can do it. And they eat also very first-class vitaminous food also, so they have energy. Even our Kṛṣṇa, He also married as a kṣatriya so many wives. So, not like Kṛṣṇa or any other, but everyone wants to keep more than one wife. Everyone wants. That is his heart's desire. And if one is able actually, he keeps. But what is his position? That is described here, that bahvyaḥ sapatnya iva geha-patiṁ lunanti. Now suppose you have got one dozen wives. So when you come home the every wife is waiting: "My husband will come from work. I shall snatch him in my room by force. Last night he did not come. Now, this night, I shall forcefully bring in my room." So this man enters, and every wife is prepared to take the opportunity, so all of them come. So one catches one leg, another catches another leg, another, hand, another, mouth, another, hair, (laughter) and they're all snatching: "Come here, come here." So he's flat. So what is his position, just imagine. This example is given. Similarly, if all the senses, supposed to be my subordinate wife, they snatch the man, that "Just enjoy this. Just enjoy this. Enjoy this. Enjoy this," then what is the position? Most disturbed condition. So in such disturbed condition one should... What? One should take vow that "No more wife, that's all. I have suffered so much. Now no more wife. That's nice." Then the mind will be in peaceful condition. No more disturbance.

*The whole Vedic civilization is an attempt to create peaceful condition of the mind so that "I can fix up my mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." This is Vedic civilization. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. This is... To control the senses... The mind is the central figure of the senses. So first of all you engage your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is first business. So, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. And you talk only of Kṛṣṇa. Vikuṇṭha-nātha, vaikuṇṭha-guṇanuvarṇane. Here it is said, naitan manas tava kathāsu vikuṇṭha-nātha. So if we engage your talking capacity in the reading of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, tava-kathā, "Your words..." That we have got, sufficient subject matter for talking. If we do that instead of talking nonsense, "phish phish," if we talk simply of Kṛṣṇa, take Bhagavad-gītā and together... It doesn't matter, man or woman. Together, we simply... Just like we are doing now, if you simply talk of Kṛṣṇa, that is the measure, the real remedial measure to control the jihvā. Because Prahlāda Mahārāja is mentioning first of all, in the beginning, jihvā. So if you can control the jihvā, then you can control other senses very easily. This is the... Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, tāra madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, tāre jetā koṭhina soṁsāre. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, "Out of the all the senses, the tongue is very difficult to control, formidable enemy. So in order to control the tongue..." Kṛṣṇa boḍa doyamoy, koribāre jihvā joy. "Just to control over the tongue," kṛṣṇa baḍa doyamoy, koribāre jihvā, svaprasād anna dila bhāi, "He has given nice prasāda."

*So sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. If we... This jihvā is the first item, and if jihvā, if the tongue, if we can control... Tongue must taste something very... That is another business of the tongue. And must chant or talk something. So if you talk of Kṛṣṇa, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and if you give prasādam, the tongue will be controlled. This is our program, that let everyone chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and let everyone take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Then the jihvā will be controlled. Here the jihvā is so formidable, the first jihvā is mentioned. So if you can control your tongue, then you can control your belly also. Because without control of the tongue... If you lock up, that "I shall not accept anything except prasādam," so if you go on the street and if you see hundreds and thousands of restaurant, you'll not be allured. "No more chop cutlet, finished, because I cannot take anything without being offered to Kṛṣṇa." So automatically it becomes controlled. If we take this vow, that "I shall not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa..." Naturally Kṛṣṇa does not take any chop cutlet, so you cannot offer it. Kṛṣṇa personally says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. So you have to prepare foodstuff for Kṛṣṇa from patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ, nothing else. Although He can eat... Kṛṣṇa can eat fire also or anything, all devour. But Kṛṣṇa prescribes for us that "You can give Me this in bhakti, with devotion and faith, then you'll be benefited." If Kṛṣṇa eats from your hand, then your life is successful. If Kṛṣṇa accepts any bit of service from you, then your life is successful. Immediately you become liberated, because bhakti is not for the conditioned soul. As soon as... Kṛṣṇa therefore adds this word. Kṛṣṇa is not hungry for eating anything from your hand. He's not hungry. But He wants to teach you how to become a bhakta. Mad-bhaktaḥ. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He wants you to become His devotee. Then your life's problem is solved.

*So therefore He is prepared to take anything, little, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ [Bg. 9.26], so that you can begin to give something to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's neither hungry nor wants anything from you. For your benefit, for our benefit, Kṛṣṇa is prepared to take a little leaf, little flower, little water, which is available anywhere all over the world, without any price. Even if I am very poor man I can pick up a flower, a little leaf, patraṁ, and little fruit, and water is available everywhere. Everything is available. Kṛṣṇa does not particularly say that "You give me such fruit, such flower." Any fruit, any flower, He's prepared to take, accept, provided you are a bhakta. Otherwise, even if you prepare very nice, palatable dishes, He'll not accept a single of it. It is the bhakti. Kṛṣṇa is very much anxious to see that you have become a bhakta. Then your problem is solved. Because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa*-ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]-He's suffering more in one sense because we are suffering. Just like your son is on the bed suffering from some disease. The father and mother feels more pain than the son, if the father and mother is affectionate. So Kṛṣṇa is so affectionate; therefore He comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. When we forget Kṛṣṇa, then He comes to convince us that "This is not good. You are trying to satisfy your senses. It will never end. Simply you'll be complicated from one body to another for satisfying senses, sometimes eating stool also. That is satisfaction of the senses. So this business will never make you happy. Better just surrender unto Me, and what I say, you do. Just begin your service. Surrender. Give Me something eatable." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. This is the beginning. The Deity worship is the beginning of devotional service.

Therefore arcana, the Deity worship, very essential. Everyone should try. The system is: anyone comes to the temple, he brings something, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ, just to offer to the Deity. It is the beginning. That is the beginning of love, dadāti, give something. Dadāti pratigṛhnāti bhuṅkte bhojāyate caiva. This is the beginning of love. If I love you, I must give you something, and whatever you'll give me I shall accept it. Dadāti pratigṛhnāti. So give something to Kṛṣṇa and take His instruction. Dadāti pratigṛhnāti. This is beginning of love. Therefore the Deity is there. The instruction is here. If people take advantage, automatically he becomes a devotee, a lover of Kṛṣṇa. That is the success of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760319SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.41

-

Māyāpura, March 19, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Translation: "My dear Lord, You are transcendentally situated on the other side of the river of death. We are suffering on this side of the river of death on account of the resultant action of our own activities and have thus fallen in this river. We are suffering the pangs of repeated birth, death and awful arrangements. Not only me, but on behalf of all others in suffering conditions, kindly see upon them and out of Your causeless mercy and compassion deliver us and thus maintain us."



Prabhupāda:



*evaṁ sva*-karma-patitaṁ bhava-vaitaraṇyām

*anyonya*-janma-maraṇāśana-bhīta-bhītam

*paśyaṁ janaṁ sva*-para-vigraha-vaira-maitraṁ

hanteti pāracara pīpṛhi mūḍham adya

[SB 7.9.41]



So this is our material condition of life. Prahlāda Mahārāja is describing one after another. So sometimes foolish person accuse God that "Why He has put us into this miserable condition, different status of life? Somebody is rich, somebody is poor, somebody is diseased, somebody is healthy, and so many varieties." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, keśava tuyā jagata vicitra. Vicitra means varieties. "So if God is kind, why He has made so many varieties?" This is not the common question you meet? You are preaching. They inquire like this: "Why God is not kind to everyone? Why He has made this distinction?"



*So this is not God's creation. We should know that it is my creation. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, evaṁ sva*-karma-patitam. Just like a man is condemned to death. In the court the judge gives the judgment that "This murderer should be hanged." So it is not the judge that he is giving order to the murderer to be hanged. It is the murderer who has created his situation, to be hanged. This is to be understood. Not that the judge is partial, he's giving order to somebody that he must get decree for two millions of dollars, "He must have it," and another man is condemned to death. It is not that the judge is partial, he's giving somebody two millions of dollars and somebody is ordered to be hanged. The judge is impartial. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. This is the version. We act according to our whims, and the resultant action is there immediately. The nature's law, God's law, is there. We have got experience that if we infect some disease, contaminous disease, then we must suffer from that disease. So it is not God's creation that somebody is suffering from some painful condition and somebody is enjoying. No. We infect ourself with some contamination because this world, this material world, is full of contamination, full of contamination. Just like when there is epidemic, the whole situation is contaminous. Therefore one has to take vaccine injection to protect himself. So anyone who has come to this material world must know that he has come in a place which is a place of epidemic. So you must have to remain very cautious. Otherwise you will have to suffer.

So in different ages, in different time, different types of medicines and vaccines are recommended, but in this age, Kali, it is so dangerously contaminous that no other process of medicine will act. Which is...? What is, then, the rescue? The only medicine is harer nāma. Therefore Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau... [Cc. Ādi 17.21].

Devotees: ...nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.



*Prabhupāda: This is only medicine. To become free from the infection, this harer nāma is the only medicine, bhavauṣadhi. Auṣadhi means medicine. Parīkṣit Mahārāja said, harer nāma, this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, is not meant for the conditioned soul, because as soon as one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, he immediately becomes free from the contaminous, contagious position. There is a verse, eka hari nāme yato pāpa hare, pāpī haya tato pāpa karti bare nāre (?). Once chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is so powerful that all the sinful reaction of life-immediately gone.



*You have read the life of Ajāmila. He was very, very sinful. He committed so many sinful activities. But at the last moment he simply chanted Nārāyaṇa. Immediately he became free. Immediately Viṣṇudūta came to rescue him from the hands of the Yamadūta. Just see what is the power of chanting the holy name of... So this is fact, that if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we immediately become free from all contamination of this material world, provided we don't commit it again. That is required, that... We finish all the resultant action of contamination of this material life, provided we remain without being fallen again. Therefore there is daśa*-vidha-nāmāparādha. You know ten kinds of offenses. So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra being careful not to commit the ten kinds of offenses, then you are immediately liberated. The most dangerous offense is nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. If we think that "I am so fortunate. I have got this hari-nāma and it can vanquish all kinds of sinful reaction, so very good instrument. So I go on committing all kinds of sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be neutralized," this is the most dangerous offense. Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. Because I am chant... "I know that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa I shall be free from all resultant action of sinful..., so let me go on, and throughout whole day I shall commit all kinds of sinful activities and in the evening I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be finished." This rascaldom is very, very dangerous. We must be very careful. Don't take Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra as an instrument to neutralize your sinful activities. Don't take it. It is a fact that as soon as you are initiated with Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you become free, but don't commit it again. Āra nā re bāpa (?).

*Just like Jagāi*-Mādhāi. Jagāi-Mādhāi was most dangerously sinful persons, and they surrendered to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You know the story, that he injured... Both the brothers injured Nityānanda Prabhu. Still, Nityānanda Prabhu was so persistent that He decided that "Inspite of all the faults of these two persons, I shall deliver them." So when He was injured by these two brothers, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very, very angry, and He immediately called for His cakra to kill these sinners. But Nityānanda Prabhu requested, "My dear Lord, in this incarnation You promised that You'll not take any weapon to kill. So don't kill them. Have mercy on them." This is Vaiṣṇava. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu became pacified. In the meantime these two brothers fell on the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's lotus feet: "Sir, excuse us and save us." In this way they became surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu made one condition, that "You have committed so many sinful activities. I shall excuse them immediately, provided you promise that you'll not commit again." This is initiation. This is called initiation, that to the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa we surrender. He immediately excuses all sinful reaction of life. But if we commit again and again, that is not very good proposal. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we become immediately free, undoubtedly, but if we take it as an instrument for committing sinful activity, then the danger is very...

Just like in the Christianity there is a process of confession?

Devotees: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That throughout the whole week he'll commit all sinful activities, and on Sunday he'll simply agree, or what is called?



Devotee: Confess.



Prabhupāda: That "I have committed, yes. I have committed these sins," and give some fine. This process is not good. We should not do that, confession, "Yes, sir, I am..." I think in your country there was a movement, Moral Rearmament. Their process was that "You commit sinful activities, but you confess. Then it will be neutralized." That was their formula. But I don't think it was successful. It could not be successful. That is not possible. Process is that "By my karma I have become sinful. Now I have got the remedial measure, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, but I shall not commit again." Then he's successful. Then it is successful, immediately. Nāmnād balād... But we should not take advantage of this.



*So here Prahlāda Mahārāja said, evaṁ sva*-karma-patitam: "By my own sinful activities I am now in this conditioned status of life, in this material world." It is not created by God. We create. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. God, or the supreme authority... Just like Yamarāja. He is there, representative of God. He gives his judgment, what kind of body I'll have to accept after death. So therefore this atheist class of men, they deny to accept the next birth. But that is not the fact. The next birth is there. The example is very nicely given by Kṛṣṇa:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*So if a child... Now there are so many boys. So if he says, "No, no, no. I'll not become a young man. I shall remain a child," that is not possible. He has to change his body. There is no question that he does not like to change his body. No, he must have. So similarly, this body, when it is finished, you may say that "I don't believe there is another body," but there is-"must"*-exactly like that, that a young man, he may think, "This body is very nice. I am enjoying. I shall not become old man." No, you must become. That is the law of nature. You cannot say. Similarly, after death, when this body is finished, you must have another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. And who is speaking? The Supreme Lord, the Supreme Person. He is speaking, the supreme authority. And if you, by your ordinary reason, you try to understand that what is the law, a very simple example is given there. So there is life. You cannot deny it. There is life. Now, that life, that body, is not in your hand. At the present moment, when the life is there, you are very proud of your knowledge. You are very impudent to accept the existence of God. You can do that foolishly. But after death you are completely under the control of nature. That is... You cannot avoid. Just like when you are foolish, you can say, "I don't believe in the government's law. Whatever, I shall do." But when you are arrested, then everything is finished. Then simply slap and shoes, that's all.



*So we are so foolish that we do not believe in the next life. That is simply foolishness. There is next life, especially when Kṛṣṇa says. You can say, "We don't believe." You believe or not believe, it doesn't matter. You are under the laws of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Kṛṣṇa said. Why one has become nicely situated? Why one is situated, one man is, one living entity is eating very nicely very nice foodstuff, and another animal is eating stool? This is not accidental. This is not accidental. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Because one has acted in such a way that he has to eat stool, he must eat. But the māyā, the illusory energy, is so clever that while the animal is eating stool, he's thinking, "I am enjoying heaven." This is called māyā. So even by eating stool he's thinking that he is enjoying heavenly pleasure. Unless he's covered by that ignorance, he... If he remembers that "I was... In my previous life I was human being, and I was eating so nice foodstuff. Now I am obliged to eat stool," then he cannot prolong. That is called prakṣepātmika-śakti-māyā. We forget. Forgetfulness.

*So this forgetfulness is going on. Evaṁ sva*-karma-patitaṁ bhava-vaitaraṇyām anyonya-janma maraṇa. Here is again, anyonya-janma: "Not only this birth, but another birth, another birth, another birth." You cannot say that "This is the final" or "This is the beginning." No. That is not. Anyonya-janma-maraṇa. In another body also there is birth and death. As in this body we have got birth and death, similarly, in another body also, either I take my birth as Lord Brahmā or a small, insignificant ant... It doesn't matter. Any material body you take, there is birth and there is death. You may live... Just like we are human being. We may live for many years, hundred years, in comparison to the ant's life, and similarly, we may live hundred years, and Brahmā is living for millions of years. So it does not mean there is no death. Death must be there. One who has taken birth, he must die. The janma-maraṇa. And as soon as you take birth, all the material conditions, tri-tāpa-yātana, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika, you have to accept. There is no rescue. As soon as you take birth, janma-maraṇa, jarā... Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. As soon as you take birth, then you have to take jarā, old age, and vyādhi, and disease, and last, maraṇa.

*So we do not understand this. This is called ignorance, foolishness. Prahlāda Mahārāja, Vaiṣṇava, he understands this, that "I am fallen in this miserable condition," evaṁ sva*-karma-patitam, "by my own activities. Not only I, everyone in this material..." That we should know. Don't think that "He's suffering. I am enjoying." I am also suffering. If I am not suffering now, I will have to suffer. Suffering must be there. This world is meant for suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Kṛṣṇa says, "This is a place for suffering." You cannot enjoy. That is not possible. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gataḥ [Bg. 8.15]. So unless you attain the complete perfection of life, saṁsiddhiṁ paramām, there is no question of stopping your miserable condition of life. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, paśyañ janaṁ sva-para-vigraha-vaira-maitram. And in each and every life there will be this distinction, "This is mine, and this is your," "You are my friend" or "You are my enemy" and "I am your friend. I am..." This contradiction will go on. You cannot... Therefore you see the whole world, they are sometimes fighting as enemies, and sometimes they are trying to make the United Nation. You see practically. Sometimes vaira, enemies, and sometimes maitram, friend. But this is all illusion. They will never become friendly. It is not possible. This contradiction will continue, sva-para-vairam, and create situation-"You suffer; *I suffer. I snatch your ears and you snatch my ears," that's all. You have seen the punishment between the two boys? So we shall create this enmity and so*-called friendship and then suffering. This is going on.

*Sva-para-vairaṁ hanteti pāracara pīpṛhi mūḍham. Mūḍham. We are all rascals. We are trying to create peaceful condition. It is not at all possible, peaceful condition. This rascal must know it clearly that there cannot... By your manufacturing some League of Nation or United Nation, it is not possible. In the New York we have seen the United Nation, and every year a flag is increasing-another flag, another flag, another flag. Where is "united"? Increasing of flags. That means disunity. "I don't agree with you. We don't want to remain with you. We must have Pakistan. We don't want to remain with Hindustan." So "All right." "We don't want this. We don't want this"*-this is fighting, going on, sva-para-vairam. This is the condition of this material world. And we must suffer the threefold miseries. So where is happiness? But because we are illusioned by the external energy, therefore we think that "We are making good arrangement to live peacefully, and we shall live peacefully." Where is peace? You have to die. You don't want to die; you have to die. You don't want disease; you must suffer from disease. You don't want to become old man; you must become old man. So where is your happiness? This is all foolishness. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, hanteti pāracara pīpṛhi mūḍham: "We are rascals, fools, so we are suffering in this way. Kindly save us."

Thank you very much. (end)



760322SB.MAY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.42

-

Māyāpur, March 22, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "O my Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, You are the original spiritual master of the whole world. Your special interest in managing the affairs of the universe is to deliver the fallen souls who are engaged in Your devotional service. You are already the friend of all suffering humanity, and I think You will show Your causeless mercy upon persons like us, who are engaged in Your service."



Prabhupāda:



*ko nv atra te 'khila*-guro bhagavan prayāsa

*uttāraṇe 'sya bhava*-sambhava-lopa-hetoḥ

*mūḍheṣu vai mahad*-anugraha ārta-bandho

*kiṁ tena te priya*-janān anusevatāṁ naḥ

[SB 7.9.42]



*So Kṛṣṇa is bhava-sambhava-lopa-hetoḥ. Everything which is going on-creation, maintenance, and also annihilation-the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. When there is need of creation, the cause is Kṛṣṇa. When there is need of maintenance, the cause is Kṛṣṇa. Everything, the cause is Kṛṣṇa. And there is annihilation*-the cause is Kṛṣṇa. So sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya, although it is being done... Sṛṣṭi means creation; sthiti means maintenance; *pralaya means destruction. These things are going on in the material world. Everything is created. Just like your body, my body, it is created at a certain date. There is history. And it will maintain, say, utmost, for fifty, sixty or hundred years. It will never be eternal. Because it is created, it cannot be eternal. Anything created cannot be eternal. So this sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana is actually being done by Kṛṣṇa, whatever way. But because we cannot see Kṛṣṇa in the background, we see only the wonderful activities of the nature. Nature is working not independently*-by the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Whatever is going on by the wonderful activities of nature... People are amazed by seeing the wonderful activities of nature. But behind these activities there is the direction of the Supreme Personality. Therefore Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva is addressed here, bhava-sambhava-lopa-hetoḥ.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "We are suffering in this way, and we are praying to You to stop this suffering. So it is not very difficult task for You." Ko nv atra te 'khila*-guro bhagavan prayāsa. Suppose if I ask you to do something for me, you may say, "That is very difficult task. I have no time to do this." So it may be difficult for an ordinary man. Actually it is a very difficult task, because Prahlāda Mahārāja in a previous verse, he prayed, pantheli parācara pipṛhi mūḍham adya. Mūḍham adya: "Give me shelter." So Kṛṣṇa may think... Kṛṣṇa does not think, but from our side we may suppose like that, that... Just like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings that śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-prabhu, dayā koro more: "Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, kindly give me Your mercy." Dayā koro more. "Why I shall give My mercy to you? You are so sinful. You are so fallen. My mercy is not meant for you." But Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura reminds, patita-pāvana-hetu, tava avatāra: "Sir, I am the most fallen. There is no doubt about it. But You have specially come to deliver persons like us." Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-prabhu dayā koro more, tomā vinā ke dayalu, jagata saṁsāre. Actually we are hankering after favor of some big man and small man. That is going on. That is material world. But if we seek favor from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so that is very nice. Instead of going here and there, if we... We want favor. There is no doubt. But others cannot favor us. That is the point. They have started so many humanitarian institutes to favor the suffering humanity, but it is not possible. They cannot. They cannot do it. It is false attempt because... There are so many instances. Suppose the father and mother, they are always ready to show favor to their children. There is no doubt about it. But does it mean if one has got very good and rich and able father and mother one can be happy, the children can be happy? No. That is not so. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha. That is also Prahlāda Mahārāja's statement, that "Simply because there is kind father and mother, therefore the children will be happy? No. That is not possible." So actually, if the child is destined to suffer, the good father-mother cannot give him shelter. That is not possible. Suppose one is condemned by the court to be punished, capital punishment, to be hanged. The father-mother may be very big man or rich man. If he pleads in the court, "Sir, whatever you want, I'll give. Kindly do not condemn my son to be hanged," that cannot be checked. This is not possible. Nobody can show favor against the will of the Supreme.

*So best thing is to ask favor... Śuddha, śuddha*-bhakta, those who are... (aside:) He's sleeping. You don't sleep and sit front. So therefore we should not ask favor. We can ask favor from anyone, but we must know that nobody can favor us unless it is sanctioned by the Supreme Person. We must always know. Not that because one is very, in a superior position, he can favor me. No, he cannot favor you unless it is sanctioned by the Supreme. Suppose we approach sometimes a rich man to favor us with some contribution, membership fees. But that rich man cannot favor us unless it is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there within himself, and if He says that "You give him this money," the man will give us. So we shall not be sorry. Suppose we go somewhere and he did not favor us. We should not be sorry. We should know that Kṛṣṇa did not dictate him. He is not so fortunate now; therefore Kṛṣṇa did not dictate him. So there is nothing to be sorry. This should be our principle. Because without Kṛṣṇa's sanction...

*So here, ko nu atra te akhila*-guro bhagavan prayāsa. So everyone requires some extra endeavor to favor us, but Kṛṣṇa does not require. That is Kṛṣṇa. He can do anything He likes. He does not depend on others. Others depend on Kṛṣṇa's sanction, but Kṛṣṇa does not require anyone's sanction. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said bhagavan prayāsa. Prayāsa, is advised not to take, especially for the devotees. One should not take up some business which requires very hard endeavor. No. We should take up only simple things which is possible. Of course, a devotee takes the risk. Just like Hanumān. He was servant of Lord Rāmacandra. So Lord Rāmacandra wanted information of Sītādevi. So he did not consider, "How I shall go to the other side of the sea, Laṅka?" He simply, believing in Lord Rāmacandra, "Jaya Rāma," jumped over it. Rāmacandra had to construct a bridge. Of course, that bridge is also wonderful because these monkeys were bringing stone and they are throwing on the sea, but the stone was floating. So where is your law of gravitation? Eh? Stone floats on the water. It cannot be done by the scientists, yes. But Lord Rāmacandra desired; a stone became floating. Otherwise how many stones we shall throw in the sea that it will come to the level of becoming a bridge? Oh, it was not possible. It was possible, everything was possible, but Rāmacandra, Lord Rāmacandra, wanted, "Let it be simplified. So let them bring the stone and it will float. Then we shall go." So without stone He could go, but He wanted some service of the monkeys. There were many monkeys. Baro baro badare, baro baro peṭ, laṅka diṅgake, mata kare het. There were many other monkeys, but not exactly capable like the Hanumān. Therefore they were also given some chance that "You bring some stone. You cannot jump over the sea like Hanumān, so you bring stone, and I will ask the stones to float."

*So Kṛṣṇa can do anything. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛttimanti. He can do anything. We cannot do without His favor. So Prahlāda Mahārāja requests that "If You kindly become merciful upon us, it is not a great task for You, because You can do whatever You like. Because You are the cause of creation, maintenance and destruction, so it is not difficult for You." Besides that, mūḍheṣu vai mahad-anugraha ārta-bandho. Generally, those who are ārta-bandhu, friend of the suffering humanity, they specially show favor to the mūḍha, to the rascals. Kṛṣṇa comes for that purpose because every one of us, we are mūḍhas. Duṣkṛtino. Na māṁ duṣkṭtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante. Normally we, because we are sinful, because we are mūḍhas, we do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ prapadyante. Anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, He is classified as duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhamā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. It is not at all possible to become independent of Kṛṣṇa's will. That is not possible. Therefore those who are trying to work independently, without Kṛṣṇa's favor, they're mūḍha, all rascals. They will not accept what Kṛṣṇa says, and they are trying to establish some law without Kṛṣṇa. "There is no need of God." This is the... Most scientists, they say like that. "Now we have got science. We can do everything." They are mūḍhas. It is not possible. Independently you cannot do without Kṛṣṇa's favor.

*So best thing is that always try to seek favor of Kṛṣṇa. And you cannot seek Kṛṣṇa's favor directly. That is also another point. Kiṁ tena te priya*-janān anusevatāṁ naḥ. You cannot jump over to Kṛṣṇa without the favor of His devotee. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. You cannot seek favor of Bhagavān directly. That is another foolishness. You must go through the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. This is our process. We don't approach Kṛṣṇa directly. We must begin our service to the Kṛṣṇa's servant. And who is Kṛṣṇa's servant? One who has become the servant of another Kṛṣṇa's servant. This is called dāsa-dāsānudāsa. Nobody can be independently servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is another foolishness. Kṛṣṇa never accepts anyone's service directly. No. That is not possible. You must come through the servant of the servant [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. This is called paramparā system. As you receive knowledge by the paramparā system... Kṛṣṇa spoke to Brahmā, Brahmā spoke to Nārada, Nārada spoke to Vyāsadeva, and we are getting this knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa... Bhagavad-gītā was spoken by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna.

*So if we give up the process of understanding as Arjuna did, then you'll never be able to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is not possible. You have to take up the process which Arjuna accepted. Arjuna also said that, that "I am accepting You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because Vyāsadeva has accepted, Asita has accepted, Nārada has accepted." The same thing. We have to understand Kṛṣṇa. We cannot understand directly. Therefore these rascals who are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa directly by interpretation, they are all rascals. They cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. May be very big man, so*-called. Nobody is big man. They are also sa vai... No, what is that? No, no. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. These big, big men who are so much eulogized by some rascals, all these big, big leaders, what they are? Because they are not devotee of Kṛṣṇa, they cannot lead. They simply will mislead. Therefore we take them all rascals. This is the criterion. Take this one criterion. Anything you want to learn from somebody, first of all you see whether that somebody is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise don't take any lesson. We don't take any lesson from a person, "Perhaps," "Maybe," like this. No. We don't want such scientist or mathematician. No. One who knows Kṛṣṇa, one who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, one who is overwhelmed in ecstasy simply by hearing Kṛṣṇa, you take lesson from them. Otherwise all rascals.

Thank you very much. (end)



720222sb.vis

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.43

-

Visakhapatnam, February 22, 1972



Prabhupāda:



*(tvad*-vīrya-gāyana-) mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ

*śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa indriyārtha-

*māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān

[SB 7.9.43]



*Here is a verse spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja you know, a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. From the very beginning of his life he was a great devotee. From the womb of his mother, he was a great devotee. It is possible. When his mother was pregnant, the demigods... There was fighting between the demigods and the demons. And while his mother was pregnant, she was being dragged, taken by Indra under custody, and on the way Indra was met by Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni objected, "What is this that you are dragging a pregnant woman? What is this?" Indra explained that "Because she is the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, a demon with whom we have just finished our fighting, she (he?) has gone away. So we are taking this lady under our custody so that as soon as she gives birth to a child, we will immediately kill so that the demonic descendants will be no more." Nārada replied that "This child is not a demon. He is a great devotee mahā*-bhāgavata. So do not do this. Better give this lady under my custody. I shall take care of her, and you can go." So Nārada Muni is the spiritual master of all demigods, so he immediately accepted the words of the great sage Nārada. Not only accepted, but they offered their respects by bowing down to the child who was in the womb of his mother. A Vaiṣṇava, it doesn't matter whether he is a child or in the womb of his mother, he's respectful. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was in the womb of His mother, Devakī, the demigods also offered their prayers and obeisances you know, garbha-stuti, that is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.



*So the Vaiṣṇava and the Lord are equally respected, even by the demigods. A Vaiṣṇava is not different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, advaya*-jñāna. In the material world, there is difference between the master and the servant. But in the spiritual world, the servant is as much respectful as the master. That is spiritual world. Sri Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Vaiṣṇava means that to become the servant of the servant of the servant of the Lord. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said like that. We don't want...as the Māyāvādī philosophy, they want to become God, at once. No. Nobody can become God, that is not possible. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. The real identity of living entity is eternal servant of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa dāsa. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly explained, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. In the Bhagavad-gītā or any Vedic literature, there is no such mention that the jīva is as good as the Supreme Lord. It is never stated. Aṁśa, minute particles.

*Just like the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is combination of minute luminous molecular parts. There are finer atomic parts, lumination, combined together, that is called sunshine. That minute particle, shining minute particle is never equal to the sun. Similarly, jīva is minute particle of the supreme sun, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. So as the small molecular particle, shining particle in the sunshine cannot become the sun, similarly, the molecular particle of the Supreme Soul, the jīvātmā, is never equal to the Supreme Lord. The another name of the Supreme Lord is asama-urdhva. Asama. Asama means never equal. What to speak of ordinary living entities, in the śāstra it is stated that even Lord Brahma, Lord Siva cannot be equal to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the injunction.

yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahma*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvenaiva vīkṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



*If anyone thinks that Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, or Viṣṇu... They're all viṣṇu*-tattva, bhagavat-tattva, Rāma. If somebody thinks that Nārāyaṇa is as good as Lord Siva or Lord Brahma, sa pāṣaṇḍi bhaved dhruvam, he becomes a pāṣaṇḍī.



*So this human form of life is meant for realizing our relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is the mission of this human form of life. So our duty in this human form of life is to realize our original relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Prahlāda Mahārāja says... There is a stotra offered by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Prahlāda Mahārāja's father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, was killed by Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, He was very angry. Because this Hiraṇyakaśipu, although father of Prahlāda Mahārāja, he persecuted him in so many ways. The only fault was that he was a devotee. That is the nature of the demoniac world. Even one's son becomes a devotee and if the father is demon, then he'll be angry. That was actually happening. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, Vaiṣṇava, he is speaking to the Lord, naivodvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyāḥ, "My dear Lord," para. Para means He is transcendental, not of this material world. Udvije, "I am not anxious." Because everyone is anxious. In this material world, everyone is always anxious, either in peace or war, it doesn't matter. In peace, so-called peace, there is no peace. Actually, it is a place for struggle for existence with māyā. So there cannot be any peace.

*So everyone is full of anxiety. That is also explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja that sadā samudvigna*-dhiyam asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. When his father... After all, father and son, the relationship is very affectionate. So even though father was not happy that his son was growing to be a great devotee, still one day he called his son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned from your teachers?" So Prahlāda Mahārāja is answering. He knew that his father was a demon, so he is addressing directly. Tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehinām. Asura-varya. "My dear father, you are the best of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means the best. "My dear father," tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehinām. "I think," dehinām, "for the living entities who have accepted this material body..."

*There are living entities who do not accept this material body. They are in the spiritual world. Their number is greater than the number of the living entities within this material world. They are called nitya*-siddha. Eternally perfect. And here in this material world, the living entities are called nitya-baddha. Nitya-baddha means eternally conditioned. Therefore, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehinām. Dehinām means in this material world. We are not this deha, this body. We are dehī, only accepting. Just like I am not this shirt. I am different from this shirt. This is called self-realization. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am spirit soul. That is jñāna. So long I am identifying with this body, then my..., I am in ignorance, I am a go-kharaḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. But unfortunately, these people are going under the identification of this body. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am white," "I am black," "I am learned," " I am fool," " I am rich," "I am poor." All these designations are our ignorance. Therefore, Prahlāda Mahārāja says dehinām. Anyone who has accepted this body, tat sādhu manye 'sura-vārya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyam. Because the living entity, although spirit soul, he has accepted this material body, asat. Asat means which will not exist. This body will not exist, but we forget that. This is the most wonderful thing in this material world. Everyone is dying every moment, still one who is living, he thinks that he will live forever. That is the most wonderful thing.

ahany ahani lokāni

*gacchanti yama*-mandiram

śeṣaḥ sthitam icchanti

kim āścaryam ataḥ param



*So our position is in ignorance and, therefore, we are always full of anxiety. Just like this war between India and Pakistan (indistinct), the anxiety is not yet over, it is going on. There may be another war. So in this material world you cannot be free of anxiety, that is not possible. Sadā samudvigna*-dhiyam asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Asad-grahāt means because we have accepted something which is temporary, not permanent... Take for example this body... Therefore, we must be always full of anxieties.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja advised that "The best thing which I have learned is that you should give up this material world." Tyaktva... Gṛham andha*-kūpaṁ ātma-pātaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. "My dear father, I have learned this best thing," that tyaktva... Gṛham andha-kūpam. "This world, material world, which is just like a dark well..., if a man is thrown into this dark well as he is in this precarious condition of life, similarly, anyone who is in the material world, he is put in the dark well. Therefore, somehow or other, we have to get out of this and," vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5], "we shall accept the shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari." The father became very much angry. Mūrkhāya upadeśa hi prakopāya na śāntaye, if you give good instruction to a mūrkha, to a foolish person, he will be angry. He will not rectify himself, but he will be angry (indistinct).

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja was (indistinct) the great devotee in the world. There are many descriptions of his characteristics and activities. In Bhāgavata, Prahlāda*-caritra is everyone knows. So when his father was killed, he said, naivodvije para deva duratyaya vaitaraṇyāḥ. Duratyayā. Duratyayā means (it is) very difficult to cross over this ocean of nescience, material world. It is very difficult. We do not know how we have been put into this ocean of nescience. We are traveling, going through eight million four hundred thousand species of life. Sometimes in different species of life in different types of planets and different types of body, we are passing through. We do not know that. We know, we know even in this life we can understand that I have passed over so many bodies. I had my childhood body, I had my boyhood body, I had my youthhood body, now I have got a different body which is old man's body. Similarly, I shall give up this body and I will have to accept another body by the laws of nature. Tatha dehāntara-prāptir. As we are changing our body even in this present life, similarly, after giving up this body, I have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. But the problem is what kind of body I am going to have in my next life. That is to be thought over.

*Therefore, there is no guarantee. And this time I may have so very nice body in a very aristocratic family. Next life it may be the same aristocratic standard or in the higher planetary system in heavenly body, and it may also be that I can get the body of a cat and dog. Therefore, it is very essential that we should be prepared for the next body. Because after we will give up this body, and our pains and pleasure is according to the body. That is also the statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām, we get a standard of happiness or distress. Take for example only happiness, forget about distress. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. One who has got his body in the Khatau's family or any nice family, so his standard of happiness is already fixed up according to the body. He has got a body in such family or in such species of life, so his standard of life is also fixed up according to his karma-yogena. Jantur dehopapattaye. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Karmaṇā, by our act. Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. By pious activities, one can get these four things: birth in high family, rich family, brāhmaṇa family, cultured family, janma; *aiśvarya*-riches, opulence; *śruta*-education; *and śrī*-beauty.

*So I say to my American and European disciples always that your nation, American nation, you have got your birth in a very rich nation or rich family. In America, every family is rich because there the poorest man earns monthly not less than four to five thousand of rupees, according to our (indistinct). The poorest man. And what to speak of the richest man. So janma, aiśvarya, śruta, śrī, these things are achieved out of pious activities. Therefore, in the Vedas, the karma*-kāṇḍa vicāra, performing great sacrifices, they are mentioned. (Sanskrit) Performing yajña. In order to keep ourself happy within this material world, we have to perform yajña. That we are forgetting. There is no yajña performance. Therefore, as we are forgetting to live according to the direction of the Vedas, we are meeting with so many dangerous ways of life. Take for example, in our country, 20 years ago, there was no fight between Punjab and Bengal. Now because we are advanced, we have got independence, now the fighting is between Punjab and Bengal. This kind of advancement we are making, and we have to face such calamities more and more if we forget performance of yajña.

yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo

mucyante sarva kilbiṣaiḥ

bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā

*ye pacanty ātma*-kāraṇāt

[Bg. 3.13]



*Everything is explained there. So unfortunately, we are forgetting our Vedic culture and we are very much puffed up as if we are advancing. This is not advancement. We learn many industrial houses, commercial houses, they have contributed enough lumps of money to the war fund, defense fund. What for? To burn the money in gunpowder, that's all. But they are not prepared to burn the money in sacrifice. So you have to meet all these calamities more and more. This is the fact. You cannot avoid. The law of nature, the law of God is there. You may deny the existence of God, but the God's agency, Durgā*-devi, Candi, is there. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā, the Goddess Durgā, the material energy, she is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*suyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*So Kṛṣṇa also says, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14], the same thing. As Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā duratyayā, similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja also says duratyayā, it is very difficult to supplant the laws of nature. If you don't act according to the direction... Veda means knowledge. So in the Vedas, they are giving direction how to live. Even if you want to be materially prosperous, you have to follow these rules and regulations. And if you want to get out of this material world, these are the rules and regulations. Otherwise, we have to meet always... Already there are calamities. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9], the calamities of birth, the calamities of death, the calamities of old age, the calamities of disease, they are already there. And above that, the calamities of war, pestilence, famine, earthquake, and so many other things.



*So we are passing through, but we are not aware how to avoid it, how to become free from this life of anxiety. That is being described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. He says that "For me, my Lord, I am not at all anxious. I am completely free from all these calamities." Just see. He was a boy of five years old only, but he is confident that he is not subjected to the calamities. Duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyāḥ. Why? Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ [SB 7.9.43], "Because I have learned to fulfill my heart by glorifying Your wonderful activities." Kīrtanam. Kīrtanam means to describe or to sing the glorious activities of the Lord, that is called kīrtanam. Kīrtanam does not mean always that we have to chant or sing with musical instrument. I am speaking to you Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this is also kīrtanam. So we have to accept this principle, kīrtanam, always. This kīrtanam is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Every one of us, never mind, this happiness is already fixed up. When you are born in this family, your standard of happiness is already fixed up. Don't bother. The time which you have got, valuable time, save it for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is required. (indistinct) Don't bother always for further happiness, further happiness, further happiness. Happiness already is standard (?). This is,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkha vad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

*kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasā

[SB 1.5.18]



*The standard of happiness and distress. Just like this morning I was walking in the (indistinct). I saw some poor men, they were taking bath in the pit and washing their cloth. So I told them that he is also living in Bombay and here are other gentlemen, so why they could not become like them? The opportunity is open for every one of us. So why one man is like this and one man is like that? That is destined, that is called destination. Kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasā. The standard of happiness and standard of distress will be there according to karma. Therefore, our duty is not to be disturbed by this so-called happiness and distress. We should save time and must advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ [SB 7.9.43]. Simply always thinking of the wonderful activities of the Lord.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "For personally I have no anxiety, because I have learned the art how to become happy. I have learned the art, always thinking of Your glorious activities." There are so many glorious activities of Kṛṣṇa, so we can think of. If you take a flower, you can think of glorious activities of Kṛṣṇa. How artistically, how nicely the flower is made. You cannot say it is made by nature. It is made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ [Bg. 9.10]. Prakṛti, nature, is producing, that's all right, but under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Just like your mill is running. A common man cannot see where is Mr. (first name) Khatau, but it is going on under your direction, that's a fact. Similarly, everything is going on under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. If we understand this fact, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So while drinking water, we can remember Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8], "The taste of the water I am." So we are drinking water several times in a day. As soon as we drink water, we can remember immediately, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, how nice Kṛṣṇa. He has given us this nice water, tasteful water. This is Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So we have to practice this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have to teach others to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and that requires huge amount of energy. We should be prepared. This is India's gift. The people are taking all over the world. Unfortunately, I am trying single*-handed, nobody is cooperating in India. They will throw millions of dollars in the gunpowder, but not for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is very important movement. Every philosopher, every scientist should come forward, try to understand this movement, and do the needful. That is my request. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760323SB.CAL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.43

-

Calcutta, March 23, 1976



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "O the best of great personalities, I am not at all afraid of this material existence because wherever I stay, I am fully absorbed in the thoughts of Your glories and activities. My concern is only for the fools and rascals who are making big, big plans for material happiness, who maintain family, society, and so*-called love to country. I am simply concerned for them."



Prabhupāda:



*naivodvije para duratyaya*-vaitaraṇyās

*tvad*-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ

*śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa indriyārtha-

*māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān

[SB 7.9.43]



*This is very important verse for the Vaiṣṇava. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "I am lamenting," śoce. "I am very much aggrieved." Śoce means "I am very much lamenting." "Why? Why you are lamenting? I have given you all protection, and your father was giving you so much trouble, and I am always after your protection. Why there is lamenting?" "Lamenting is not for myself. I am quite all right. I have taken shelter of Your lotus feet, and I am engaged in glorifying Your Lordship's activities, so I have no problem. I can sit down anywhere underneath a tree and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read Bhagavad*-gītā and Bhāgavata. I am quite happy. So I have no problem." "Then? Why śoce?" "Śoce for these rascals who are making big, big plans to be happy in this material world." This is Vaiṣṇava's... Vaiṣṇava can tolerate all distresses. He is happy in every condition. He has no problem. He has no ambition except serving Kṛṣṇa. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. So Vaiṣṇava has no such ambition that "I must have multimillions and million of dollars to possess and must have a very good wife," na dhanam, "and many followers. I shall become minister, leader, political." These ambitions are completely kicked out by the Vaiṣṇavas. They have no value. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23]. Those who are after all these things, material temporary happiness, alpa-medhasām, Kṛṣṇa says. They are lack of brain. But the whole world is after these things.



*So those who are after these things... That is the material world, lābha, pūjā, pratiṣṭhā. Everyone is for some material profit. That is called lābha. And pūjā. Pūjā means he wants a position so that all others will come and worship him: "Sir, you are so great. You are big minister. You are big president. You are this, that. Kindly give me this favor, that favor." That is called pūjā, "Everyone will come and worship me." And pratiṣṭhā: "And I will be so celebrated man that even after my death, there will be a statue in the maidan and people will come to worship me." After death where he is going? He is going to be a dog or cat. He doesn't mind. But his statue should be worshiped. Such rascals. He does not know where he is going after death. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. He'll have to change his body. So as soon as he changes body, he has to accept another body, but he keeps in memory of this body. A drunkard, a woman-hunter, and such a person, most sinful life in this, and what will help him by having a statue? But they are fools, vimūḍhān, rascals. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udva... [SB 7.9.43], making big, big arrangements. That is material world. Everyone is.

*So the Vaiṣṇava's duty is... That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's proposal, that "Personally I have no problem. I am begging Your mercy for everyone, not for me, sir. I am quite sure. Because You are assuring, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14], so I have no such māyā. I have fully surrendered unto You. And You also promise, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. So I am simply fully surrendered unto You. Then as far as I know, I have done it. I shall continue it. So I have no problem." Therefore Vaiṣṇava is worshiped as para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.

*vāñchā*-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca

*kṛpā*-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo

vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ



*Para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava... That is Vaiṣṇava's duty, because they practically see that these rascals are engaged only in false activities which will not help him. They are planning this "ism," that "ism," that "ism," that "ism," simply wasting time, because he knows. He knows, everyone knows, but Vaiṣṇava understands; *the non*-Vaiṣṇava does not understand. He is a fool. He's a fool, does not understand. When in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said clearly, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], "Everyone is under the control of the modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa," and still, this rascal is thinking that he is independent... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. And the so-called yogis and swamis encouraging them, that "Yes, you can go on doing all nonsense. Pay me thirty-five dollars, I will give you mantra, and you'll be perfect." This is going on.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is lamenting for these rascals, the ordinary common man and their so*-called rascal guidance, because they cannot guide. They are misguided because they do not believe in God. They themselves put themselves as God, although he is kicked by the laws of material nature. Even there is pain on the tooth, he immediately goes to the doctor, and he is God. This is going on. And Prahlāda Mahārāja is lamenting for these rascals, vimūḍhān. Vimūḍha means... Vi means viśeṣa pūrvaka, particularly. And mūḍha means rascal. Not only rascal-"particularly rascal." That is the problem for the Vaiṣṇava. Therefore, following the footprints of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and before that, Prahlāda Mahārāja, Nārada Muni, many, many ācāryas... So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. He also, He is thinking of these fallen souls. He has come again. First of all He came as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You rascal, you are creating so many plans. It will not help you. You just surrender unto Me." He said, but still, we are so rascals, we could not take up the proposal of Kṛṣṇa: "Oh, why shall I surrender? Kṛṣṇa is also as good as I am. I am also a man; He is also man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. These rascals, they are so rascal that Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa comes to bestow His mercy as human being, they think that "Kṛṣṇa is like me." Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. The rascal means he does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ bhāva. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. And these other rascals, they are declaring that "Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone; now I am Kṛṣṇa." So this is going on.

*So that is the problem. For Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement these are the problems. First of all the public is also vimūḍha, rascal, and their so*-called leaders, political, social, religious, and so on, so on, so on, so many leaders, misguiding them. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantrya uru-dāmni baddhāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Everyone knows that "I am completely under the stringent laws of material nature," and still, they are making plan to become independent. This is their vimūḍha, vimūḍhaka. This is their stupidity. Stupidity. They are seeing,

ahany ahani lokāni

*gacchantīha yama*-mandiram

śeṣāḥ sthitam icchanti kim

āścaryam ataḥ param



The Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja asked by Dharmaraja that "What is the most wonderful thing in this world?" he said, "This is the most wonderful thing." What is that? Ahany ahani lokāni gacchantīha yama... "Every moment people are dying." Lokani, every planet. Not that in this planet there is death; *in other planet there is no death. No. Within this material world every planet, either Brahmā or the small, insignificant ant, must die. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Everyone has to die. There is no excuse. So, and still they are planning permanent settlement. So, this is their vimūḍhaka.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja and every Vaiṣṇava who is actually following the paramparā system of Vaiṣṇava duty, they are anxious. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa. And why they are vimūḍhān? Because vimukha cetasa: "They don't like You. They don't care for You: 'I don't care for God. I don't accept Kṛṣṇa,' these vimūḍhas." So all the Vaiṣṇavas, especially those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Prahlāda Mahārāja will speak later on that "Sir, I am not inclined at all to go alone to Vaikuṇṭha. I must take them all with me. Otherwise I don't want." Prahlāda Mahārāja is devotee. He can ask Kṛṣṇa the power, "Give me such power that along with me I shall take all of them." And that is Vaiṣṇava. He can do so. Vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukkura, boliyā janaha more. Therefore we have to become a dog to Vaiṣṇava. Chādīyā vaiṣṇava sevā, nistar payeche kebā. Without serving Vaiṣṇava, nobody can be delivered, because he is so merciful, he can demand to Kṛṣṇa, "Please, on my sake please excuse him. I'll take him with me." So Kṛṣṇa grants him, "All right, you take them." That Vaiṣṇava is such...

*Therefore we should be very much strictly follower of the Vaiṣṇava principle. Vaiṣṇava's only business is how to deliver these fallen souls. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He appeared as a Vaiṣṇava. The business is to deliver. Māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvat [SB 11.5.34]. He was born in a very nice brāhmaṇa family, very beautiful body. Everyone liked Him. By His command He could gather hundreds of thousands of people in one night to make civil disobedience movement. He was so popular when He was only twenty or twenty*-one years old, and He had His beautiful wife, very affectionate mother, very good position in the society, and still, He gave up everything. Why? Māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvat, that "If I do not deliver these fallen souls entrapped in māyā, then who will do it?" So that is for this purpose, Kṛṣṇa comes. For this purpose, Caitanya Mahāprabhu comes, the same purpose, as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa vimūḍhān. "These rascals, they have forgotten You and making plan to be happy." So everyone. Kṛṣṇa also comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. This is dharmasya glāniḥ. When people forget God, that is dharmasya glāniḥ. Just like when the people forget the government, do not care for the government, there is chaos, there is chaos; similarly, when people forget God, Kṛṣṇa, there is chaos. That is the position now all over the world, chaotic condition, because they have purposefully avoided God. Purposefully. In your country it is said, "We trust in God." On the bills it is stated there, "We trust in God." But ask any of the scientists, philosopher, president, that "What is that God? You trust in God and what is that God? Can you explain?" "No." That means "We trust in air, not in God." Nobody can explain. Such a big country, so many scientists, politicians, philosophers... Ask. Challenge the government that "You write on the bills, currency notes, 'We trust in God.' So what is that God?" Ask anyone. Will they be able to answer? No. It is simply formality.

*Similarly, they have completely forgotten God all over the world. There is only little formality still. That also being... In your country, in Europe, so many churches are closed because no one believes in God. Here also I have seen in Nasik so many temples. There the dogs are passing stool and urine within the temple. Nobody goes. Because what there can be done? There are so many rascals. They are making propaganda that "Why do you go to temple?" Just see, here is a central place, it is inhabited by so many respectable persons, but they do not come to temple because there is regular propaganda that "God is everywhere. Why do you go to the temple?" "No, why God is not there in the temple?" You can answer: "God is everywhere*-except in the temple?" Their propaganda is, "God is everywhere. Why do you go to the temple?" But our answer is, "If God is everywhere, why He is not in the temple?" Eh? He must be in the temple. But this rascal will make propaganda, "Don't go to the temple." Of course, there are so many rascals. They came and gone. The temples are going also. In India, by this propaganda that "There is no God in temple," by this false propaganda, the temples are not closed. Still in Vṛndāvana you'll find five thousand temples. You see Jagannātha Purī temple. Many thousands of people go there. Raṅganātha temple and so many other temples.

*So this India, this propaganda will not stay. They come and go, make propaganda and go away, but temples remain and it is worshiped. Now the temples are increasing all over the world. Instead of stopping people to go to the temple, the temples are increasing. For centuries, for..., there was no temple in Europe and America. Now there are hundreds and thousands of temples. So it will increase. You cannot stop Kṛṣṇa's glories. You cannot stop Kṛṣṇa's supremacy. That is not possible. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So that cannot be. Therefore it is sure and certain that if you work very sincerely for Kṛṣṇa to spread His message, the message of Bhagavad*-gītā, there cannot be any check. It is not possible. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means it cannot be checked by any material condition. You go on with your duty sincerely. There will be no power to check your progress. That is, Prahlāda Mahārāja says. But endeavor must be there, as Prahlāda Mahārāja says.

*So we are followers of mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the mahājanas, out of the twelve mahājanas. There are also described, who are mahājana. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. The indication is there. The question will be, "Who is mahājana?" So mahājana means... That is also stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, svayambhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kapilaḥ kaumāro manuḥ prahlādaḥ [SB 6.3.20]. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the mahājanas. So we are discussing Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction and his character, his ability. This is Vaiṣṇava. Bhāgavata means the glories of the Lord, Bhagavān, and the glories of the devotees, both. There is no difference between Bhagavān and bhagavad-bhakta. There is no difference. But that does not mean, like Māyāvādī, that bhagavad-bhakta is also God. No. That is explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī. Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **. Bhakta bhagavān, bhagavān bhakta. Vaiṣṇava, he is equally good like God. Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. But he's so power... He's more than. Sometimes he's more powerful than Bhagavān. Just like materially, if somebody sees that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is now spread all over the world. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu could not do it," that does not mean that I am great than Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This does not mean. We are servant. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Bhagavān keeps some work to be done by His devotee to give the credit to the devotee. This is Bhagavān. But the bhakta never takes the foolishness that he is Bhagavān or greater than Bhagavān. Nobody can be equal to Bhagavān; nobody can be greater than Bhagavān. This is all foolishness.

*Prahlāda Mahārāja, he is bhakta. He is simply seeking the blessings of the Lord how he can deliver these vimūḍhān. Śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa māyā-sukhāya. Indriyārthe. These men are so busy. You'll see in big, big cities, they are so busy. What is their end of business? The end of business is māyā-sukhāya. He'll discuss also later on. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. These grhamedhi, those who are so much attached to family life and working so hard day and night, what is the attraction? The attraction is yan maithunādi, sex, and nothing more. Prahlāda Mahārāja will discuss. So what is this happiness, sex? You cannot enjoy it for long time, and still, for this momentary happiness you are working so hard, forgetting your real business, how to realize God. Are they not vimūḍhān? Certainly they are vimūḍhān. They do not know what is the interest of life. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is thinking. But these rascals, they are not thinking how they are wasting their valuable time.

Thank you very much. (end)



760326SB.DEL

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.44

-

Delhi, March 26, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading synonyms, devotees repeat) "Eka-alone; na-neither; anyam-any other person; tvad asya-except the..." This word is missing? Tvad asya?



Prabhupāda: Tvad? Where it is? Maunaṁ caranti vijane na parārtha, naitān vihāya... Where is tvad asya?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tvad asya, the translation was not typed in.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Nānyaṁ tvad asya śaraṇaṁ bhramato 'nupaśye: "Except Yourself, I don't find he has got any hope who'll deliver him."



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Śaraṇam*-to take shelter of; *bhramataḥ*-the living entities rotating and wandering throughout the universe; *anupaśye*-I can see actually from authorized evidence. Translation: My dear Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, I see there are many saintly persons indeed, but they are simply interested for their own deliverance, and thus, without caring for big, big cities and towns, they go to the Himalayan forest for meditating, taking mauna-vrata, the vow of silence. They are not interested to deliver others. So far I am concerned, I do not wish to be liberated alone and leave aside all these poor fools and rascals. I know that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without taking shelter of Your lotus feet, nobody can be happy, and therefore I wish to bring them to You, to the shelter of Your lotus feet."



Prabhupāda:



*prāyeṇa deva munayaḥ sva*-vimukti-kāmā

*maunaṁ caranti vijane na parārtha*-niṣṭhāḥ

naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān vimumukṣa eko

nānyaṁ tvad asya śaraṇaṁ bhramato 'nupaśye

[SB 7.9.44]



*This is the conviction of a (person) perfectly convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The preacher who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they must be convinced that without accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody has any means of escaping these stringent laws of material nature. It is everywhere stated. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is stated, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. Unfortunately, the conditioned souls, although they are very, very much afflicted with the pressure of material nature, they have become callous. Every moment, every second, they are being controlled, and still they are thinking they can do anything and everything independently. So in this way they are suffering. But a learned, saintly person... Prahlāda Mahārāja, he thinks that "Without delivering these fallen souls, alone I am not prepared to go back to home, back to God." Naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān.



*Kṛpaṇān. Kṛpaṇān means misers. All these persons who are in this material world, they are hankering after material enjoyment, and they have no interest to understand spiritual life. Such persons are called kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ [SB 7.9.45]. I have several times discussed this verse, that this material life, especially, material life means sex life. So everyone is suffering for indulging in sex life, but in spite of suffering, they are not satiated. Therefore they are called kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser. Brāhmaṇa means liberal, and kṛpaṇa means miser. Every one of us, we have got this valuable body, human form of body. If we utilize it, then..., utilize it by brahma-jñāna, then we become brāhmaṇa. And if we do not utilize it, then we are kṛpaṇa. So here it is said kṛpaṇān. Kṛpaṇān means "These people, these conditioned souls, they are not endeavoring for liberation from this material world." They are so callous, foolish, just like cats and dogs, eating, sleeping, and mating. That is their happiness. So they are reluctant. Nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore you have to... By the grace of Kṛṣṇa you have to adopt such means that they may be interested a little about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise they are so dull and miserly, they do not understand that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very important for them. They have no sense even to understand. But the preacher who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he knows that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness these people are condemned. They cannot be happy. They cannot be liberated. They will simply remain within this material world, accepting one body after another. And whichever material body we accept, it is meant for suffering. It is not meant for any happiness. Tri-tāpa-yātana. The three kinds of material miseries-adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika*-he has to undergo.

*So only the devotee, Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, he can deliver them. He goes from town to town, village to village, house to house, to bring this message of Kṛṣṇa and deliver him. Prahlāda Mahārāja is promising, naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān vimumuksa eko: "I do not wish to go alone. Give me some strength so that I can deliver some of them. It is not possible to deliver all of them." But that is a very important engagement for Vaiṣṇava. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has written in his Caitanya-śikṣāmṛta, we can understand a Vaiṣṇava very nicely when we see that he has converted so many conditioned soul into Vaiṣṇava life. That is the estimation of a Vaiṣṇava. If I simply try for myself-I may be very advanced devotee*-that is not very much appreciated by Kṛṣṇa. Prāyeṇa deva munayaḥ sva-vimukti-kāmā. Everyone is interested. There are goṣṭhy-ānandī and bhajanānandī. Bhajanānandī is interested for his own welfare, or they think it that he is not competent enough to preach; *therefore he does not go for preaching work. Sva*-vimukti-kāmā: "Let me look after my own affairs." "Oil your own machine."

*So this is another stage, and other stage is a devotee taking all risk, preaching for the benefit of the whole human society. He is called goṣṭhy-ānandī, increasing the number of devotees. That is preferred by Kṛṣṇa. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati: "Anyone who is engaged in preaching this confidential science of Bhagavad-gītā," na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ, "nobody is dearer to Me than he is." So if you want very quickly recognition by Kṛṣṇa, go on preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even if it imperfectly done, but because you are sincere in your capa..., whatever capacity you have got, if you preach, then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased. I have seen practically. In my Guru Mahārāja's day there was a paper, Dainika Nadiyā Prakāsh. It was being published daily, a piece of paper, just like I was publishing Back to Godhead. And if a small brahmacārī would go to Navadvīpa and would sell a few copies, one paisa a copy, that would be taken as a great preaching by Guru Mahārāja: "Oh, you have sold five copies? Very good." Because people are so reluctant*-they are not at all interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness-therefore we become very much engladdened when we see that some of our books and literatures are sold. They will read and be benefited.

*So this is the mission of high*-class Vaiṣṇava, how to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the suffering humanity, and this is the purport of this verse said by Prahlāda Mahārāja, and we are following the footprints of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Never mind even it is imperfectly done, we must execute the orders of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. I may not be so very expert in delivering the message of Kṛṣṇa, but my duty is to try to my best capacity how to distribute this knowledge to the suffering humanity.

Thank you very much. (end)



760401SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.46

-

Vṛndāvana, April 1, 1976



Prabhupāda:



*mauna*-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhyayana-sva-dharma-

*vyākhyā*-raho-japa-samādhaya āpavargyāḥ

prāyaḥ paraṁ puruṣa te tv ajitendriyāṇāṁ

vārtā bhavanty uta na vātra tu dāmbhikānām

[SB 7.9.46]



So Prahlāda Mahārāja, indirectly he is declining all these ten processes for liberation. Those who are actually interested in liberation, for them to control the senses these ten kinds of processes are recommended. The first thing is mauna, to remain silent. You'll find in India there are many saintly persons who do not speak, silent. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is for the ajitendriyāṇām. This process, mauna, to remain silent, is meant for persons who cannot control the senses. It is better not to talk than to talk foolish. In English also it is said like that, that "Better stop talking than talking foolish." So in the material world actually all the talks that we indulge in, they're all foolish talks. They have been described in the śāstra as croaking of the toads. "Kakaka, kakaka, kakaka." What is the meaning? We have got the tongue to talk. We can engage the tongue for talking about Kṛṣṇa. But those who cannot talk about Kṛṣṇa but talks all nonsense, better stop them talking. That is called mauna. Mauna means "You cannot talk nicely; better you stop talking."



*So that is a kind of vrata, vow. But our process is different: sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. We do not stop talking, but we talk for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. So there are many, you'll find, they take credit by not talking. Sometimes you go to them and ask some question, they'll write in pencil on the paper, "We will not talk." And what is the meaning of his silence? If I put some questions and you write in paper, what is the difference between talking and writing? I am using the senses. For talking I am using the senses, tongue. Instead of using the sense, tongue, active senses, I am using my hand. So this is also sense gratification. The real fact is that you cannot stop the tongue working. Engage the tongue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Don't talk material subject matters. In big, big meetings the politicians, the United Nation, they talking-but talking all nonsense, simply going there for passing resolution that "Now we have to do this. Then the world will change." No, it will never change. By such kind of foolish talking, it will never change. Better close this United Nation organization because it has not given any practical effect. But talking about Kṛṣṇa, just see how it is giving practical effect. Here you are assembled here from Europe, America, and Africa, Canada, and practically all over the world, but you are united nation. You are united nation simply by talking Kṛṣṇa. This is the remedy. And if you keep yourself as American, as Indian, as Canadian, as African, and go to the United Nation and talk for years and years, there will be no more United Nation. It will be... More flags will increase because this is nonsense talking. It is practical. The United Nation is talking for the last thirty, forty years?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Thirty years.



Prabhupāda: Thirty years. And where is unity of the nation? It is not possible. And here we are talking about Kṛṣṇa, say, for seven, eight years. Just see the sample, how these young men are becoming united in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is practical.



*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says this stoppage of talking is better than to talk nonsense. If you cannot talk of Kṛṣṇa, better don't talk. Therefore this maunam is recommended for the persons less intelligent who cannot talk about Kṛṣṇa. Better stop. This is called mauna. Otherwise Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "I have got only one tongue and two ears. So how can I enjoy or serve Hare Kṛṣṇa only with one tongue and two ears? If I had millions of ears and trillions of tongues, then it would have been possible." It is meaning... Tuṇḍe tanda... I forget that verse now. He is feeling like that, that "How shall I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra by one tongue only and hear, śravaṇa*-kīrtana, by two ears?" So he is expecting so many ears and so many tongues to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And so far we are concerned, conditioned soul, even sixteen round becomes very, very difficult job for us because we are practiced to talk nonsense. We cannot find out little time, say for two hours, for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but we can find twenty-four hours for talking nonsense. Therefore one who cannot chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he should stop his talking. That is called mauna. Don't talk any more. Better remain silent. This is recommendation by Prahlāda Mahārāja. And vrata also compulsory. It is meant for persons who are desiring to be liberated.

*Here it is said, āpavarga. Āpavarga. Āpa. Ā*-pavarga. Ā means just the opposite, ā, "not." And pavarga, pavarga I have several times explained to you. Pa means pariśrama, laboring, working very hard. This material world, everyone is working very hard-man, animal, bird, beasts, everyone. It is meant for that, just opposite of the spiritual world. In the spiritual world there is no question of working, what to speak of hard working. There is no question. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is the definition of God: na tasya karyam kāraṇam ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. You see. Kṛṣṇa is simply enjoying. He has nothing to do. He hasn't got to go to the market. We are servants. We go to the market and prepare food for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's simply playing on His flute. And if you, with devotion, offer Him food, He will eat. He has nothing to go. So similarly, those who are servants of Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual world, they also haven't got to do anything, what to speak of hard work. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Everything automatically is there. We haven't got that idea; therefore sometimes people accuse that I am poisoning so many young men; they are doing nothing. We are practicing that prema, that we haven't got to do anything; still, it will come, everything. That is real practice. We haven't got to do business, we haven't got to go to the office, but still, things will come. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate.

*So how it is possible? That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

satataṁ kirtayanto māṁ

*yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

*nitya*-yuktā upāsate

[Bg. 9.14]



*Dṛḍha*-vratāḥ. That word, dṛḍha-vratāḥ. If you simply take this vow, determination, that "I shall do nothing except serving Kṛṣṇa..." Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ.



mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

*bhajanty ananya*-manaso

*dṛḍha*-vratāḥ...

[Bg. 9.13]



*Like that. So if we simply decide that "I shall do nothing except to serve Kṛṣṇa," this dṛḍha-vrata... If you want to take vow, take this vow. Then you haven't got to work very hard. So āpavarga. A means not, negative, and pavarga means five principles of material condition. First thing is pa-you have to work very hard, pariśrama. And then pha. Pha means you have to work so hard that foam will come through your mouth. You have seen sometimes in horse, in man, after hard working there is foam. So pa, pha, and ba. Ba means vyarthata. Vyarthata means disappointment in spite of working so hard so that foam is coming in the mouth, vyarthata. Just like you see, you have seen, horse or bulls. They are working so hard, and the master beating with whips, and still, the master is not satisfied and the animal cannot get sufficient food-vyarthata. In spite of so much working hard... We can see in the animal-sometimes we see in human society also-disappointment. After working so hard, disappointment. That is the nature of this material world. You think that by simply working hard you will be very happy. That is not possible. You can simply work hard*-you will get whatever you are destined to get, either you work hard or not hard. It doesn't matter. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. The material world, there are two things: one, something gain, and something lost. So gain or loss, so you will get it as you are destined. Every one of us, we are destined to certain extent of gain and certain extent of loss. That is destined.



*So therefore śāstra says, "Don't try for this destined gain or loss. You are working so hard to making some gain. Even if you do not work hard, you will get that gain. Don't try for it. Better utilize the time for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is the injunction of śāstra. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [1.5.18]. The people do not understand. They think that these young men are being induced to escape. No, it is not escape. This is the only path of liberation, āpavargya. To make the pavargas, pa, pha, ba, ba is vyartha, and bha... Bha means bhaya, fearfulness. In spite of working so hard, everyone is afraid: "What will happen next? What will happen next?" Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. This is the nature. And then, after working so hard, bringing out foam in the mouth, disappointment, then fearfuless-at last die, mrtyu, ma. Pa pha ba bha ma, these five, pavarga. In Sanskrit grammar there are vargas: ka-varga, ca-varga, ta-varga, like that, five vargas, the pa-varga. So this word is used generally in the Vedic literature, āpavarga. Dharmasya ca... Eh?

Devotee: Hy. Dharmasya hy āpavargasya.



*Prabhupāda: Ah. Dharmasya hy āpavargasya. Āpavargasya. Dharma means, religion means, to accept the path of āpavarga. It is not a religious sentiment. Therefore dharma is defined, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like the state authorities. A man is suffering in the prison house, and he's praying to get release or he's very anxious to get release. So he has to follow some government rules and regulation. Then he may be released.



*So therefore dharma means the rules and regulation or the law given by Kṛṣṇa if you want release from this bondage of material suffering, āpavargasya. Dharmasya hi āpavargasya na arthāya artho upakalpate. Generally we go to the temple for artha, some material gain: "O God, give us our daily bread." This is material gain, either bread or rice or something. It is also good because ārto arthārthī. Catur*-vidhā bhajante māṁ janaḥ sukṛtinaḥ. Sukṛtinaḥ. Anyone who goes to the temple or church for begging bread, they are also good because they are coming to the temple. In that respect they are good. But one who thinks that "What is the use of going to the temple? God is everywhere. Even in the wine shop there is God. Let me go there instead of coming to the temple..." That is their philosophy. God is everywhere. He goes to the wine shop for realization of God. But to come to the temple is forbidden. This is their philosophy.

*So anyway, dharmasya hy āpavargasya na arthāya upakalpate. And to gain money, material gain, does not mean we shall satisfy our senses. Now, what is that? Arthasya. Artha is not meant for sense gratification. Jīvasya tattva*-jijñāsa.

Devotee: Nārtho yas karma cehabhiḥ...



*Prabhupāda: The life is meant for tattva-jijñāsā. The dharma-artha-kāma mokṣa... [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. The dharma means to become religious. Why religious? Yes, we require the necessities of life in a regulative principle, dharma-artha-kāma, and to satisfy... We have got senses to... We have to satisfy. Otherwise we shall become unhealthy. Just like sex life. Sex life is required also for healthy condition*-for ajitendriyāṇām. But one who is jitendriya, one who has conquered over the sensual activities, for them it is not required. Therefore it is recommended to, I mean to say, train the children to become brahmacārī. Brahmacārī. That means to control the senses. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ. Dānta means controlling the senses. That is gurukula, how to teach the students to become controlling over their sense. And if he is perfect, then he doesn't require to accept gṛhastha āśrama. He can accept immediately sannyāsa āśrama. But if he is unable to do that, the brahmacārī, the guru orders him, "All right, you take a good wife and be satisfied and have family life up to fifty years. Then you give it up." Not that it is essential; one has to marry. This is a concession for sex life, that's all.



*So in order to... Dharmasya. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. Kama is also required for whom? Ajitendriyāṇām, one who cannot control. But one who can control... If one is trained up properly, he can control. He doesn't require anything. Because any activities of this material world, they may be utilized for systematic proper peace, peaceful condition of the social, political. But after all, they are material. Material means unwanted. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja has said, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali saman. In this material word we sometimes say, "This is very good, and this is very bad." Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, "This 'bad' or 'good,' it has no meaning. They are simply mental concoction." Because in the material world everything is bad. The so*-called good is bad, and bad is bad. Therefore we have to search out how to get out, āpavarga. This is there, how to make these material activities null and void. They are useless. That is the recommendation of Prahlāda Mahārāja, and that can be done directly simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is not Prahlāda Mahārāja's own word, but Kṛṣṇa says.

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



*Kṛṣṇa takes charge that "You haven't got to suffer anymore. You simply surrender unto Me and I shall take charge of..." Teṣām anugrahārthaṁ mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-sāgarat. If we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, then He will take charge to deliver you from this mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgara. This material world is compared with a great ocean of birth and death. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarat samuddhartya. He will take you away.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that, that there are so many processes how to get out of this material world, but Prahlāda Mahārāja and all the devotees, especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He has recommended that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*And that, you benefit. Very easy, you take it and chant it sincerely, without any offense. You haven't got to follow these, what is called, mauna*-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhyayana [SB 7.9.46]. It is not possible nowadays to be a very learned scholar in Vedic literature or to remain silent or to take some vow, then to remain in solitary place, then japa, samādhi, to remain in trance as the yogis try. They are impossible. They are recommended processes for getting liberation, but in the Kali-yuga it is not possible. So we are so fallen, it is not possible to execute all these processes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the mercy incarnation, that "These people, so fallen, they cannot do anything." So He has recommended a simple thing, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Chant (devotees chant simultaneously) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



Thank you very much. (end)



760402SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.47

-

Vṛndāvana, April 2, 1976



*Puṣṭa*-Kṛṣṇa: "...authorized Vedic knowledge one can see the cause and effect of the cosmic manifestation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because the cosmic manifestation is also His energy. Both of them are different energies of the Lord and nothing else. The wise man can see how the fire is spread within the wood by consideration of cause and effect. Similarly, persons engaged in devotional service understand, O my Lord, how You are both the cause and effect."



Prabhupāda:



*rūpe ime sad*-asatī tava veda-sṛṣṭe

bījāṅkurāv iva na cānyad arūpakasya

yuktāḥ samakṣam ubhayatra vicinate tvam...



In this book it is vicinate. I think that other book, vicikṣate?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Vicakṣate? And in the other book it says.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't make any difference.



yuktāḥ samakṣam ubhayatra vicinate tvāṁ

yogena vāhnim iva dāruṣu nānyataḥ syāt

[SB 7.9.47]



*So yogena, this word, is very important in this verse. There are... Yogena means "by the means of," upayena, "by the means of." So as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: [Bg. 18.55] "Only by devotional service one can understand Me." So here the word yogena should not be understood otherwise. If one says that jñāna-yogena, karma-yogena, haṭha-yogena, dhyāna-yogena... There are many yoga system. One can understand. That is the usual proverb nowadays, that "Any means, you can understand the Absolute Truth." Yata mat tata patha. "You can have your own process or yoga and you can realize God." But that is not possible. Kṛṣṇa personally says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. In another place, bhaktyā ekayā: "Only through devotional service." And practically we see there are many jñānīs and dhyāna-yogīs, karmīs. They have no clear conception of the Absolute Truth. Vague idea. Even in many other religious system they have got some conception of God, not clear idea. But in bhakti-yoga you can understand directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.



*Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There are many expansion of God. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. He has got many forms, but this form which we know as Kṛṣṇa, that is the original Kṛṣṇa, or original God. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "Although I have got many forms, but the original, supreme form is Kṛṣṇa." But that does not mean that the other forms of Kṛṣṇa, not our manufactured, but as it is stated in the śāstra... Kṛṣṇa has got many names: Rāma, Govinda, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha. There are other forms. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha. He has got many forms. Rāma is also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So these forms... We should not consider they are less powerful than Kṛṣṇa. Not that. But Kṛṣṇa is the original form. The example is given in the śāstra, just like candles. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya [Bs. 5.46]. The... There are thousands of candles, so we get one of them ignited, light up, and then second, then third, then fourth, then fifth*-you can go on increasing millions. The each light, each candle, is equally powerful. There is no doubt. Kṛṣṇa's expansion not... The Viṣṇu-tattva... It is called Viṣṇu-tattva. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate na hi tathā pṛthag asti hetu [Bs. 5.46]. So Viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva is one, but still... Just like the example, candle. One candle, first candle, is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. This is the conclusion.

*There are sometimes controversy that "You do not worship Lord Rāmacandra" or "You do not chant the name of Rāmacandra first." These are all material consideration. Either you chant Hare Rāma or Hare Kṛṣṇa, it does not make any difference. If you like, you can begin with Hare Rāma, and if you like, you can... These are, I mean to say, neophyte question, that "You are not chanting Hare Rāma. You are making discrimination." We do not make any discrimination. We equally... But I like the form of Kṛṣṇa. Hanumāncandra(?) liked the form of Rāma. But that does not mean that you like any form and he'll be God. No. You have to go according to the direction of the śāstra. Rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu. Viṣṇu form, they are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have to accept the direction of the authorities.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asked by Sanātana Gosvāmī that "How we can understand the incarnation of God?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "You will understand the incarnation of God with reference to the śāstra. Don't manufacture your incarnation of God. That is not allowed." Then Sanātana Gosvāmī wanted to say Caitanya Mahāprabhu was incarnation, because in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said... Not only in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in many other, Mahābhārata and Upaniṣad, there is mention, mahā, vande mahā-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam. This mahāpuruṣa, Mahāprabhu, this vande mahāpuruṣa, it is applicable to Lord Rāmacandra.

*tyaktvā su*-dustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ

*dharmiṣṭha ārya*-vacasā yad agād araṇyam

*māyā*-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvad

*vande mahā*-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam

[SB 11.5.34]



This śloka is applicable to both Rāmacandra and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Viṣṇu is always mahāpuruṣa. Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja is addressed sometimes, mahāpauruṣika. Because he is devotee of Mahapuruṣa, so he is addressed as mahāpauruṣika, like that.



*So by the śāstra indication, especially in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is described:

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*saṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

yajñair saṅkīrtanair prāyair

yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*This is the most important verse indicating Caitanya Mahāprabhu as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa*-varṇam. He is in the same category. And another meaning, kṛṣṇa-varṇayati: "The incarnation of Kṛṣṇa who is always describing Kṛṣṇa or chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." Varṇayati. But tviṣa akṛṣṇam: "But by complexion, akṛṣṇa, not black." So "not black," that may be many other colors. Then which of them I shall take? That is also stated in the śāstra. While making the horoscope of Kṛṣṇa, Gargamuni, he said, idānīṁ kṛṣṇataṁ gataḥ. Śukla-raktas tathā pītam idānīṁ kṛṣṇataṁ gataḥ: "Nanda Mahārāja, your son, this child, has now appeared as kṛṣṇa, blackish." Idānīṁ kṛṣṇataṁ gataḥ. "Otherwise this very child appeared in previous ages." Śukla-raktas tathā pīta: "He... Sometimes He appeared in white color, sometimes red, sometimes yellow." This yellow color refers to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, golden color. So this is also confirmed. If somebody says that "He is Kṛṣṇa. Why He is not blackish?" No. He appears as the devotee of Kṛṣṇa in golden color. We say, therefore, "Golden Avatāra."



*So kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣa akṛṣṇam saṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. He is with His soldiers, saṅga, upāṅga, part of the part. Advaita Prabhupāda, Nityānanda Prabhu. Nityānanda is directly part, Advaita Prabhu is part of the part. And astra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also has His astra, weapon. The astra means to, I mean to say, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam [Bg. 4.8]. So this astra, what is that? Saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtanaiḥ. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is also astra of Kṛṣṇa for killing the demons, but it is not like a... Like a sword it is not active. But it is astra. It is killing the demons but in a different way. The demonic habits are being killed, demonic habits. Everyone, we can understand it, how our demonic activities are being killed by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is astra. This is astra, but it is being used in a different way, because in this age they are so fallen. So... Manda manda-bhāgyā. This real astra weapon cannot be used upon them. It is already dead. So therefore another type of astra to awaken them to life, that is Hare Kṛṣṇa, mahā-mantra astra. Otherwise they are already dead. A dead horse... "Beating the dead horse." A horse is dead; what you will get by beating with whips? It is already dead. So there are big, big demons. Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was required to be killed by the nails of the Lord. He appeared as a ferocious lion. But here, the tiny demons, there is no need of nails or any sword. They are to be awakened simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "You cannot understand in this age." In the last śloka he said, mauna*-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhyayana-sva-dharma-vyākhyā-raho-japa-samādhaya āpavargyāḥ [SB 7.9.46]. The real business is apavarga. Pavarga I have explained yesterday: simply suffering. This material life means simply suffering. Pa pha ba bha ma. Each alphabet I have explained. It is simply suffering. And human life is a chance how to make this suffering null and void. That is apavarga. "A" means to make null and void. Pavarga. To make this pavarga life into apavarga. So these ten processes is, are recommended in the śāstra. I have already explained. Mauna, śruta, tapa, these things are required. But they are also not direct method. You cannot understand. There are many, many tapasvīs, raha. In Vṛndāvana you'll find many devotees, they are in a very secluded place. But my Guru Mahārāja did not like this process, secluded. We have discussed many times. Sometimes if you sit down in a secluded place, imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura, then you'll complain, "I am being disturbed in this way." One, that African boy, came? So he became disturbed. You must be disturbed. Because your mind is not controlled, if you sit down to get some extra credit, that "I have become so great devotee. I can remain in a secluded place and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura," it is cheating. It is cheating. You cannot do that. You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He met one beautiful young prostitute at dead of night, and the prostitute offered her body, and he was young man. He simply said, "Very nice proposal. You sit down. Let me finish my Hare Kṛṣṇa." (laughter) So this is not Don't laugh. It is very serious thing. So you cannot do that; I cannot do that. It is not possible.

*So we should not imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. But we should... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, man tumi kisera vaiṣṇava. It is mental speculation that "I shall do like that. Raha, I shall... In a secluded place, I shall chant." You cannot do that because your mind is not yet trained up. It is for the highest perfection stage that anywhere one can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and remain happy. That is not possible for the ordinary stages. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja criticized, man tumi kisera vaisnava. Because it is all mental speculation, therefore he's chastising his mind, "My dear mind, you have become a Vaiṣṇava?" Man tumi kisera vaiṣṇava, pratiṣṭhara tāre nijanera ghare, tava hari*-nāma kevala kaitava: "In a secluded place, sitting down, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, for you it is simply to get some material adoration and cheating the people." He has said like that. Don't try to do that. Always be engaged actively in Kṛṣṇa's activities.

We (conduct) our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, therefore, engaging each and every one of you in some active service. We don't advise that "You have become so advanced... Now you are initiated. You can sit down in one place and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is not possible. So therefore, although it is recommended in a secluded place, but that is not possible in this age. We should be always engaged in active service. Then, some way or other, our mind will be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. That is required, activities. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa... Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. He was statesman, emperor; *still, he was fixing up his mind in Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. That practice we should... Abhyāsa*-yoga-yuktena [Bg. 8.8]. If we do something... Suppose you are going to distribute books. But what is the idea? "It is Kṛṣṇa's books; *it must be distributed." So Kṛṣṇa is remembered there. At the same time, because it is Kṛṣṇa's book, if somebody purchases, if he pays something, he'll look at it, something, that "What this nonsense has written? Let me see." Then he will get some idea. And if he reads one line, he comes hundred times forward to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the idea. If you want... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato. This is preaching. And a layman, he does not know anything about... [break] ...the wood. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara*-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Any wood you take, there is fire undoubtedly. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa, but sevonmukhe hi svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. If you engage yourself in service, then you'll see the fire, Kṛṣṇa, there, in everywhere. Sarvatra sphurāya tāra iṣṭa-deva-mūrti. That stage one can..., that whatever he'll see, he'll see Kṛṣṇa. "Here is microphone. Here is loudspeaker. Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Yes, here is Kṛṣṇa because we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa through this microphone. He is there.

*So we have to practice this bhakti*-yoga according to the direction of the authorities. Then you'll realize Kṛṣṇa. Then the cause and effect, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam... [Bs. 5.1]. Everything will be realized and every moment you will see Kṛṣṇa. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. So unless we get that stage, we should not imitate personalities like Haridāsa Ṭhākura and others. We should wait for. That is the ultimate stage. But we should practice and work actively for understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760403SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.48

-

Vṛndāvana, April 3, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Supreme Lord, You are actually the air, fire, earth, sky, water, the objects of perception, the five senses, the mind, consciousness, and false ego. You are everything subtle and gross, including the material elements, and anything expressed either by words or the mind. Indeed, these are nothing but You."



Prabhupāda:



tvaṁ vāyur agnir avanir viyad ambu mātrāḥ

prāṇendriyāṇi hṛdayaṁ cid anugrahaś ca

sarvaṁ tvam eva saguṇo viguṇaś ca bhūman

*nānyat tvad asty api mano*-vacasā niruktam

[SB 7.9.48]



*This is all*-pervasive description of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In more simplified way it has been described in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: [Bg. 9.4] "I am all-pervasive." Avyakta-mūrtina. "That is also My feature." But this feature, Kṛṣṇa with flute in the hand, that feature is not present. That is called avyakta. Everything is Kṛṣṇa, but not in everything His original form is manifested. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam avyakta. Avyakta means nonmanifest, nonmanifested. He is everything. It can be compared just like your most intimate friend or family member is playing in the stage. So he is playing there, but still, you cannot recognize him. Naṭo nāṭyadharo yathā, Kuntīdevī has said. Just like the dramatist, the actor... He has dressed himself in such a way that although the actor is your very intimate friend or family, you cannot see. A child, suppose his father is a big actor. He is playing on the stage. So another family member says to the child, "You see your father." But he says, "Where is my father? Where is?" Naṭo nāṭyadharo yathā. Everything Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we cannot see Him. We are challenging, "Can you show me Kṛṣṇa?" You are seeing, but on account of material covering, you cannot see. Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. He is everywhere. That is Kṛṣṇa. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. He is always in Goloka Vṛndāvana, but He is everywhere. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. We are sitting here, but we are not in our apartment. Limited. But Kṛṣṇa is unlimited. That is the difference. By foolishness we claim to become Kṛṣṇa, but that is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa is not like that, although He is present before us.



*Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. When Kṛṣṇa comes just like ordinary human being and keeps with the Pāṇḍavas, people take Him as ordinary human being. That is mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. In everything there is Kṛṣṇa. Simply we have to purify our vision to see Kṛṣṇa in every atom, everywhere, whatever we... That is the highest perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and it is described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhi nā dekhe tāra mūrti, sarvatra sphūraya tāra iṣṭa deva mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. When one is fully advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he sees this world... The world is full of sthāvara-jaṅgama. Some things, some articles, are moving; *some articles are not moving. Just like tree*-it is not moving, but an animal is moving. This is sthāvara-jaṅgama. So he is seeing the tree or the animals or the hill or the water or the river or the ground. So because he is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he sees nothing but Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhi nā dekhe tāra mūrti. He does not see anything else except Kṛṣṇa. And actually that is the fact. Simply we have to purify our eyes, then we can see in everything. He is in the atom even. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. But because we are not qualified, therefore we cannot see. One who is qualified, he can see. There is no question of seeing Kṛṣṇa in a particular place.

*The other day in Delhi, somebody questioned that "If God is everywhere, what is the use of going to the temple to see Him?" Just see how contradictory it is. If God is everywhere, why He is not in the temple? But these foolish persons, they do not know what he is questioning. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Just like the electricity is everywhere, but when you catch the switch, then it is under your control. Electricity is everywhere, but still, by arrangement we can touch the electricity or take it into service by preparing electric wiring and switch. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, and you can worship Kṛṣṇa from anything. Everyone knows that this Deity is made of stone. The ground floor, the marble stone, black and white, and the Deity is also black and white. Everyone knows. But why you see the black and white Deity in this temple and gather together and offer prayer? Is it the same marble of the ground, black and white? That means you are seeing in a different position. That is love, love of Kṛṣṇa. Those who haven't got the love, they are seeing that "The same stone on the floor and same stone in the Deity. What these foolish men are worshiping?" They say that "I can worship this stone also." No, no. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, that is... The stone on the floor, that is also I am, but I am not present there." This is called acintya*-bhedābheda. "Yes, stone I am also, but I am not there at the same time."

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagat avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



*These foolish persons, they do not know. They think that "If Kṛṣṇa has spread Himself in everything, then He has lost Himself. So He has no more form," their material calculation. This is called material calculation. I have several times given you the example. You take a big piece of paper and make it small pieces, and you throw it in the air. The big sheet of paper is no longer existing. It is finished. So their calculation is like that, that "If Kṛṣṇa is all*-pervasive, then where is His form? His form is finished." This is their character. But that is nonsense. That is Kṛṣṇa, that mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am spread everywhere, all-pervasive. But in My person I am not there." Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 9.4]. But a devotee should understand that Kṛṣṇa is on the throne and Kṛṣṇa is on the floor. Therefore we should be very careful to take care of the floor, to take care of the throne, to take care of the flower, to take care of the dishes. Everything you should worship like Kṛṣṇa. That is... You cannot neglect anything. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira mārjanādau **. Everything one. You cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is here, sitting. I can neglect this floor." That is foolishness. You should take as much care to worship the Deity, to decorate the Deity, as much care to keep the temple very, very cleansed. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You cannot... You cannot say that "He is working on the garden; *therefore he is inferior. I am working directly on the Kṛṣṇa altar." No. The person who is working in the garden, Kṛṣṇa's garden, he should be as careful as the man who is worshiping the Deity in the temple. That is wanted. Kṛṣṇa has expanded. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Tatam means expansion. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You cannot neglect anything, because everything is Kṛṣṇa. You should worship everything. Don't neglect anything. Kṛṣṇa is everything, varieties. At the same time, He is in His original form. The original form is not there, but everything is Kṛṣṇa. This is simulta... Acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva, inconceivably, simultaneously one and different. This philosophy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, you should always remember. Don't neglect anything of Kṛṣṇa. Everything should be, every small thing. It is Kṛṣṇa's. It is worshipable.



*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja is describing the same thing, tvaṁ vāyur agnir avaniḥ. The same thing, kṣitir āp tej marud vyoma. Vāyu. Kṛṣṇa is air. Kṛṣṇa is fire. Kṛṣṇa is earth. Kṛṣṇa is water. Kṛṣṇa is sky. Kṛṣṇa is everything. Even the small, very, very minute particle, atom, that is also Kṛṣṇa. So if we always remember like that, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be very, very strong and established. That is wanted. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhi nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. Why people come here? You have seen while you are walking, a devotee. He was taking the dust, Rāmaṇ Reti, and putting on his head. This is Vṛndāvana*-the dust. Vṛndāvana dust is also Kṛṣṇa. Vṛndāvana dust is also Kṛṣṇa. So ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeṣa-tanaya tad dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. This is the verdict of the ācāryas. Vrajendra-nandana, Hari, Kṛṣṇa, He is worshipable, everyone knows. But His dhāma, Vṛndāvana, is also as good as Kṛṣṇa. It is also worshipable. Therefore so many devotees, they are keeping strictly in Vṛndāvana. This is the idea. We should not consider Vṛndāvana... Not even Vṛndāvana. Everywhere. Not that we limit Kṛṣṇa within Vṛndāvana. That is special, because Kṛṣṇa came here and displayed His pastimes, a special significance. But wherever you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is Vṛndāvana. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Wherever He was going He said that "It is Vṛndāvana." After taking sannyāsa He was in Bengal, and He was thinking the Ganges as Yamunā.

*So these are not to be copied or imitated. Gradually, as we advance, we can understand that how Kṛṣṇa is all-pervasive. And something is described in the Bhagavad-gītā... You cannot say that "I have not seen Kṛṣṇa." This is, I mean to say, foolishness. They say, "Can you show me Kṛṣṇa?" But thing is that he has no eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can be seen. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. If you increase your love for Kṛṣṇa, then you can see Kṛṣṇa every moment, everywhere. That is the way. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Those who are advanced, saintly persons, they see always Kṛṣṇa. That stage you have to reach. That is the idea. Sarvaṁ tvam eva saguṇo viguṇaś ca bhūman. Bhūman means the great. That is greatness of Kṛṣṇa. "God is great." We should understand how great He is. This is the understanding of His greatness. Bhūman. If simply we say God is great and kūpa-maṇḍūkya-nyāya... You know the story, the frog within the well. So some friend says that "I have seen a great mass of water, Atlantic Ocean." And how he can imagine what is Atlantic Ocean? He is thinking, "That water may be like this well, three feet. All right, accept four feet. Accept five feet. I can..." These rascals who does not know Kṛṣṇa, they think, "All right, Kṛṣṇa may be a little more intelligent than me. That's all." In this way they are thinking. But here it is called bhūman. Bhūman means all-pervading. Sarvaṁ tvam eva saguṇo viguṇaś ca bhūman nānyat tvad asty api mano-vacasā niruktam. Even if you think that the sky is very, very great, that is also Kṛṣṇa. And if you think the atom is very, very small, that is also Kṛṣṇa. There is no, nothing greater than Kṛṣṇa, nothing smaller than Kṛṣṇa. These are two contradictory things. So simply if... "Kṛṣṇa is simply as big as the sky"*-the Māyāvādī philosophy-"He cannot be small like the Deity." That is their mistake. He is as big as the sky and as small as the atom. In the intermediate stage, He is everything. Why He cannot be smaller like the Deity, small Deity, so that I may have the facility to serve Him? I cannot serve Kṛṣṇa when He's as big as the sky. That is not possible. I cannot decorate Him when He shows His virāṭ-rūpa. I think the whole world's, all the mills, they cannot supply cloth. (laughter) But Kṛṣṇa agrees to become very small. With little cloth I can dress Him. And Kṛṣṇa accepts. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. Even little small piece of cloth the devotee is covering Kṛṣṇa and thinking that "I am dressing nicely." Kṛṣṇa accepts that. That is Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

So aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He is ready to accept your service. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Simply you require to become a devotee. That is the qualification.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)





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*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.49

-

Vṛndāvana, April 4, 1976



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Neither the three modes of material nature, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, nor their predominating deities, the five gross elements, the mind, the demigods nor the human beings who are all subjected to birth, death, and annihilation can understand Your Lordship. Therefore the wise, spiritually advanced men who have taken to devotional service do not much bother with Vedic study, but rather they engage themselves in practical devotional service."



Prabhupāda:



naite guṇā na guṇino mahad-ādayo ye sarve

*manaḥ prabhṛtayaḥ sahadeva*-martyāḥ

*ādy*-antavanta urugāya vidanti hi

tvām evaṁ vimṛśya sudhiyo viramanti śabdāt

[SB 7.9.49]



*So ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. Viramanti śabdāt. There are so many prescribed mantras for liberation. Oṁkāra-sarva-vedeṣu. Every Vedic mantra begins with oṁkāra, and He is Kṛṣṇa. Vedic mantra, we chant Vedic mantra. There are many, many Vedic mantras in Upaniṣad and tantras, saṁhitā. So the (indistinct) begins with the combination of alphabets a, u, ma-Om. Oṁ tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Everything. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Every Vedic mantra begins with the oṁkāra. Some of them are very much fond of chanting omkara instead of Hare Kṛṣṇa. So there is no objection. Kṛṣṇa says, praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. Praṇava means oṁkāra.



So actually only Kṛṣṇa is there, Parabrahman. He is only. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Expansion in different varieties of multimanifestation. But if we analyze all these things, ultimately we come to the point that Kṛṣṇa is everything. That requires intelligence, how to analyze. Therefore here it is said this manifestation, this material manifestation, is guṇa guṇino mahad-ādayo, manaḥ, mind, intelligence, the five gross elements, three subtle elements, and all, and manufactured, these demigods, animals, men, martyāḥ, 8,400,000 species. So all these varieties, actually it is simply, they are simply manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's different manifestation of energy, nothing else. The real center point is Kṛṣṇa. This can be understood by advanced students, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], after studying, studying, studying, not only in one life but for many, many lives. Bahūnāṁ janmanām, jñānavān. If he actually becomes wise, jñānavān, then he understands that only Kṛṣṇa is everything. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is real understanding.

*So as soon as one understands vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], then Vasudeva is there, and I am there. So what is my relationship with Vāsudeva? He is the greatest, greater than the greatest, and I am the smaller than the..., although the quality is the same. I am also cit, and Kṛṣṇa is also cit, sat*-cit-ānanda, and I am also sat-cit-ānanda in small part. And because I am a very small particle, I forget my real nature. I identify with this material mahad-ādayaḥ. This is fallen down. This is fallen. A spark. Spark is fire, and the big fire is fire, but sometimes it is thrown. "Phat! Phat!" It sometimes falls down. So that small particle falls down. The big fire never falls down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Acyuta. Acyuta means He never falls down. We, a small particle of the Acyuta, although by nature we are acyuta, but due to our weakness we are prone to fall down in this material world. That is our position. But again we can be reinstated in our original position by cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the position. Ādy-antavanta urugāya.

*So in this material world there is ādi, ādy*-anta, beginning and ending. But Kṛṣṇa has no beginning or end. The material... Therefore Kṛṣṇa is not material. Urugāya. Kṛṣṇa is urugāya. Uru means He is exalted with nice, many, many ślokas, gāya. Gāya means songs, poetry. Uru. We cannot imagine. Uru-gāya. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā: yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. Loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. So this jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, mean Brahmā... Jagad-aṇḍa. Āṇḍa means egglike, egg-shaped, this Brahmāṇḍa or this universe. And there are jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, plural number. So in each universe there is a chief living entity. He is called Brahmā because Brahmā is created first. So that Brahmā, there are millions of universes, and there are millions of Brahmās and millions of Śiva and other demigods. Each Brahmā is full with all different types of living entities. But such Brahmās, where they are being born? Not only Brahmā, the brahmāṇḍa. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti. Niśvasita-kāla. Just like we exhale and inhale. A minute... Or not minute even. A second. Within a second we exhale and inhale so many times. So similarly, Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, He is also exhaling and inhaling. But during that period so many brahmāṇḍas are coming and so many brahmāṇḍas disappear... Ādy-antavanta, beginning and... But this Mahā-Viṣṇu, who is this Mahā-Viṣṇu? Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilaja jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo [Bs. 5.48]. This Mahā-Viṣṇu, from whose breathing so many brahmandas and Brahmas are coming and going, that Mahā-Viṣṇu's one second just imagine, how many million millions of years. So this is the description of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Then Mahā-Viṣṇu is also partial incarnation of Sankarsana; the Sankarsana is also emanation from Nārāyaṇa; *and Nārāyaṇa is also a emanation from the first Catur*-vyūha Saṅkarṣaṇa. This Saṅkarṣaṇa is expansion of Baladeva, and Baladeva is the immediate expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore come to the Kṛṣṇa. So ādy-antavanta.

*So beginning is Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi bhūtānām. He says, Bhagavad*-gītā. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. This is the explanation Kṛṣṇa is giving. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. We should understand this. So beginning is the Kṛṣṇa, ādi. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ, anādir ādiḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Anādi: He has no beginning. And everything has got beginning, and anta, but Kṛṣṇa has no beginning and anta. Ādy-anta. So in this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa. And one who has such perfect understanding of Kṛṣṇa... And Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Devānām means beginning from Brahmā, then Śiva, then so many other demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa. Aham... Even Viṣṇu. The Viṣṇu, Kṣirodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, He is also partial expansion of Kṛṣṇa, and from Kṣirodakaśāyī Viṣṇu the Viṣṇu is all-pervading. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is staying in everyone's core of heart, hṛd-deśe. It is... There is no hide and seek. Hide and seek. It is clearly stated that "This Paramātmā, Viṣṇu, is staying, hṛd, hṛd-deśe, in the heart." Therefore heart is always palpitating. And the jīvātmā is also there and... Then when the jīvātmā leaves this body, that is called heart failure. That is heart failure. Heart is palpulating, but as soon as the jīvātmā goes, heart fails. And these materialist science, they cannot give any cause. They are giving, what is that, oxygen gas and every minute injecting to keep the palpitation of the heart, throbbing of the heart, continuous. But how they can do it? As soon as the living soul departs from the heart there is no more palpitating. It is simply a lump of matter. That requires intelligence, that this matter is never the living soul.

*Therefore anyone who is accepting this body as self, they have been described in the śāstra no better than... Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cows, and khara means asses. These are asses. They are taking so much credit, advancement of scientific knowledge, but so long they do not understand there is the soul-dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]*-they are all asses, that's all, simply asses. This is our challenge, that "You are all asses. If you do not accept the existence of the soul, if you cannot find out where it is, then you are all asses. We don't give him any credit." This is our challenge. Let anyone come. We shall prove that he's an ass. We shall prove. How? It is very easy. Any intelligent man can analyze this body. Take this breathing. What is this breathing? It is air. Now, you are very much anxious to keep the breathing going on by oxygen gas and injection. What is the use of oxygen gas? If breathing is lost, you can put some air within, just like the bellow, and by machine, by some electric arrangement, the bellow can go on and the breathing will come out. Why don't you do that? It is very easy. Anyone can do it. And not anyone, at least one who has got some mechanical idea. So do you think that the breathing will bring the life? Do you think? It is not possible, sir. It is air only. That is not possible. Then you take the blood. What is this blood? The blood is nothing but red water. You cannot say that injecting some red water, you can bring life. Analyze it very intelligently. Then what is the composition of this body? The air or the water, the same. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. It is said here, mahad-ādayo. Mahat-tattva and its expansion. Even in the subtle mind, manaḥ prabhṛtayo. Mind, intelligence, egotism. You analyze everything, but you won't find there the life. No. That is not possible.

*Therefore, if you are intelligent enough, you take one ingredient of this body. One after another, one after another, one after another, you analyze. You won't find. Neither with that ingredient you can create life. That is not possible. This is analysis. You are very expert in analyzing things in the laboratory and charge fees, chemical analysis. But this is also composition of these chemical. But they say "chemical evolution." That's right, evolution. It has come, life. Then, when life is lost, why don't you combine these chemicals, bring life? That is not possible. Therefore, by proper analysis one must come to the conclusion that these ingredients are different from the living force. Then... That is called self*-realization. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this matter." That is the first step of knowledge. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. "Oh, I was so much busy with this lump of matter. Now I understand that I am spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is the first realization, self-realization.

Then,

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Now, after being brahma*-bhūtaḥ, realizing oneself that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," he becomes relieved from all these anxieties. Because here in the material world it is full of anxieties because we are identifying with this body. This is the cause of anxiety. But as soon as I realize myself that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul," then all my anxiety is gone. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. I am always very much anxious to give protection to my body. But we understand that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Even your body is annihilated, you are not annihilated. That understanding is lacking. One who understands*-na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then there is no fight between one nation to one nation, one animal to one animal, one man to one... There is no more. Samaḥ sarveṣu. Because that is the realization that "We are not this body." "I am neither dog, I am not man, I am not this, I am not that. This is all superficial. I am spirit soul. A dog is also spirit soul; the snake is also spirit soul; *the tree is also spirit soul." Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. That is real knowledge, sama-darśinaḥ.



*Then next stage is that "I am spirit soul, and I am fallen down in this condition. Now I have realized. But wherefrom I am coming?" That is next research work. And then, when he understands by studying ourself and when he understands from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa said, mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], "I am a jīva, living entity. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa," this realization... Brahman realization, Parabrahman realization. Then "I am living force. Then what is my duty?" The duty is the small must render service to the great. This is bhakti. This is bhakti. You analyze simply. It is the most perfect science, bhakti-yoga. That is natural, bhakti-yoga. It is not artificial. Jñāna, karma or yoga, they are all artificial. Simply Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from this point, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].

*So if you understand and you begin to serve Kṛṣṇa, then there is no need of studying Vedas or this or that. Here it is said, vimṛśya sudhiyo viramanti śabdāt. "No more education. Bās. First*-class education I have got. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa."

Thank you very much. (end)



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*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.51

--

Vṛndāvana, April 6, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The great saint Nārada Muni said: Being pacified in this way by the devotee Prahlāda Mahārāja with prayers offered from the transcendental platform, Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva gave up His anger. Being very kind to Prahlāda, who was lying prostrate, offering obeisances, the Lord spoke as follows."



Prabhupāda:



*śrī*-nārada uvāca

*etāvad varṇita*-guṇo

bhaktyā bhaktena nirguṇaḥ

prahrādaṁ praṇataṁ prīto

*yata*-manyur abhāṣata

[SB 7.9.51]



So Nṛsiṁhadeva was very angry. Everything is natural. If somebody becomes angry, it takes some time to get out of the anger. So Nṛsiṁhadeva was very, very angry because His devotee, Prahlāda, was so much treated (indistinct) by his father, it became intolerable. (indistinct) children, they naturally attract the affection of the elder (indistinct). So whatever we see in our dealings within the material world, the same things are there in the spiritual world. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This affection of the Lord, of the superior person to the inferior children, is natural. So wherefrom this affection comes? It comes from the Supreme Lord. Everything. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. Whatever you see in this material world, same prototype of things are there in the spiritual world. Then what is the difference? The difference is, here everything is polluted, but in the material world..., in the spiritual world, there is no influence of the material qualities. Nirguṇa. This is nirguṇa. Here everything... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi is here.



*We should understand what is the difference between material and spiritual. Here in the material world, everything is polluted. What is this material pollution? Qualities, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Out of these three guṇas, sattva-guṇa is the best. If one is situated in sattva-guṇa, then there is chance of being promoted to the stage of nirguṇa. The sattva-guṇa is the (indistinct) and ignorance (indistinct) can be found in animals. This is tamo-guṇa. Pāpa-yoni, this is tamo-guṇa. Then if one is fortunate, he can be situated in the rajo-guṇa. Rajo-guṇa, at least there is some material interest (indistinct). So... But above that, there is sattva-guṇa, to understand things as they are. In this way, when you get full scope for understanding of things as they are, not falsely studying and speculating but proper (indistinct), that is called sattva-guṇa, (Sanskrit). Just like darkness at night, you cannot see anything. That is tamo-guṇa. Then in between the darkness and sunlight, there is a period early in the morning, it is not completely illuminated, but the darkness is not (indistinct). That is the mode of passion. Everyone gets up early in the morning and begins his work. And in the sunshine, one can work very nicely; *he can see how nature is situated, how (indistinct). Similarly, one who is dominated by the tamo*-guṇa, he is like animal. He is like animal. Taking this body as self, this is tamo-guṇa. Sa eva go-karaḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape.



*So at the present moment we see that (indistinct), they are all in tamo*-guṇa because they are taking this body as self. Anyone goes any part of the world, ask him, "Who are you?" He will say, "I am the material body, I am Mr. such and such, I am Russian" or "I am German," "I belong to this family" and so on, "this nation," all the body(?). That is our (indistinct) experience. Nobody knows that he is not this body. This is tamo-guṇa. And you maybe trying to speculate that he is not this body, he is something else. That's a fact. But because out of the influence of the tamo-guṇa, he cannot understand (indistinct). And we have to come to the stage of nirguṇa, even there will be no sattva-guṇa. Here sattva-guṇa, the mode of goodness, is sometimes not (indistinct), they are attracted by the lower qualities, by the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Mixed. It becomes mixed. But if you want to become devotee, then you have to overcome even this mixed quality of sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. You have to come to the platform of nirguṇa, no more influenced by the material qualities. That is the bhakti stage, nirguṇa. Therefore, here it is said, bhaktyā bhaktena nirguṇaḥ.



*So bhakti is the only platform which is nirguṇa, and from that platform you can please the Supreme Lord. Here it is clearly said, prahrādaṁ praṇataṁ prīto. You cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead from the material platform of rajo*-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa. That is not possible. You have to come to the platform of bhakti. Bhaktyā. And who can come to the platform of bhakti? One who is bhakta. Not the others, namely karmī, jñānī, yogi. No. They cannot. It is not possible. Therefore it clearly says here, bhaktyā bhaktena. The same thing is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to understand the Supreme Lord, tattvataḥ, in truth, not in your imagination, "God may be like this, God may be like that," these are all speculation... God the Supreme means īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Vāsudeva is the origin of everything. This knowledge. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. Nothing else. That conclusion can be achieved when you are nirguṇa, not saguṇa.



So in the spiritual world, it is not void, not impersonal; *it has everything exactly like this. There are (indistinct), trees, houses, everything. Cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Surabhīr abhipālayantam. Prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa. This kalpa-vṛkṣa, there is tree, but it is not like this tree. A different, kalpa-vṛkṣa. From this tree, whatever you want you can get. That is called kalpa-vṛkṣa. In the material world, because it is covered by the three guṇas, you can get the mango from the mango tree and the orange from the orange tree, not that any tree you have grown you get both the mango and the orange, that is not. That is there in the spiritual world. Just like if I ask you, "Please bring me a glass of water," you can give me. If I ask you, "Please bring me this little (indistinct)," you can give me. That means because you are spirit soul, whatever I ask from you, you can give me. Spirit soul. Whatever I order, you can supply because you are spirit soul. So the spiritual platform, you can get everything whatever you want. So there is no need of working for something. As soon as you desire, the things are there. That is called nirguṇa. Nirguṇa does not mean it is zero. That is the Māyāvādī philosophy. They have no conception of the nirguṇa. Nirguṇa (Sanskrit), it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa is always nirguṇa. He is not within anything of this material world. But fools and rascals, they cannot understand. They say that God is impersonal; *when He comes He takes the help of material energy and gets a body, material body. This is their philosophy. No. Kṛṣṇa says that "I appear...," sa guṇān ātma*-māyayā.



*These Māyāvādīs, they cannot understand what is ātma*-māyayā. Personally, ātma-māyayā. Ātma-māyayā means spiritual. He does not appear in material form. Those who are rascals and less intelligent, mūḍhās, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam... [Bg. 9.11]. "Because I come exactly..." He is also... His form is like man. Dvibhuja, (Sanskrit). Kṛṣṇa has two hands and Nārāyaṇa (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa is always carrying His flute, this is Kṛṣṇa's līlā, form.



*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kaminīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

govindam ādi...

[Bs. 5.30]



*Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam. It is not that I can just imagine the God's form with a flute. No. It is confirmed in the Vedic literature. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitām... This is His original form. It is not the imagination of Māyāvādīs. No. But they do not know, they cannot understand. God's form can be understood by the devotees only. It is... Kṛṣṇa is not exposed to anyone except His devotee. Therefore, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Kṛṣṇa clearly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. And these bhaktas, Kṛṣṇa says, "This bhakta who has fully surrendered unto Me with full knowledge, not blindly," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. When one comes to this platform that Vāsudeva is everything, (Sanskrit), simply by worshiping Vāsudeva, you can worship everyone, all the demigods. There is no need of worshiping anyone else. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, only Kṛṣṇa. This is Vāsudeva.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is such qualified devotee. Therefore, by his prayer, the Lord immediately became pleased. Prītaḥ. Prītaḥ. As soon as one is satisfied, naturally he will come out of(?) his angry mood. This is natural. Prītaḥ yata*-manyur abhāṣata. We can speak very nicely when we are not disturbed in mind or we are not in angry mood. In this way, Prahlāda Mahārāja was accepted. He was accepted (indistinct), especially by his prayer, which is nirguṇa. (Sanskrit) So we should always remember that nirguṇa means without any material qualities. Material quality is saguṇa, "with the material qualities." So nirguṇa means without any material qualities. So karma, jñāna, and yoga, they are all material qualities. Only bhakti is spiritual. Even in that bhakti, if you bring in karma, jñāna, or yoga, then it is mixed; *it is not pure. Therefore, Rūpa Gosvāmī gives definition of bhakti, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Anyābhilāṣitā means no more jñāna and yoga. If you want to be profited(?), bhakti*-yoga or some yogic (indistinct)... The yogis, they (indistinct). If one thinks that because being a bhakta I shall also show some wonderful thing, then it is not nirguṇa, it is saguṇa. If you take it that "I shall become a devotee, I shall get all the material comfort," that is the desire of the karmīs, (indistinct). This is mixed up. So long you are mixed up, you will get whatever you desire. Kṛṣṇa is quite competent to satisfy you in that (indistinct), not very difficult thing for Him. If becoming a bhakta, if you want some material comfort, it is not at all difficult for Kṛṣṇa, He can give you. But you are cheated. By your asking for material comfort from Kṛṣṇa, God, by exchange of service, you can get the material comfort, more than you get (indistinct), then you must know you are cheated. You are not cheated by Kṛṣṇa, but you cheat yourself. Kṛṣṇa is (indistinct). Whatever you want, He will give you. If you want to be cheated, He will cheat you. This is God. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. "If you want to be cheated, I will cheat you. If you don't want to be cheated, I will not cheat you." This is (indistinct).



*So don't try to be cheated. That will spoil (indistinct). Don't ask anything from Kṛṣṇa. Simply you have to give everything to Kṛṣṇa, then that is bhakti. Don't try to take from Kṛṣṇa in exchange of your service. He can give you immediately. That is not difficult for Him. But don't do that. Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered, "Prahlāda, you take one benediction. You take." Dhruva Mahārāja also, he was pure devotee. Dhruva was offered that "If you want the largest kingdom than Brahmā, I will create it. (indistinct) You go there, you will enjoy." So he was then very regretful, "How foolish I was. I came to offer my respects to the Supreme Lord for some material exchange." He became very regretful. He said, "My Lord, whatever I (indistinct), it was my ignorance. Now I don't want." (Sanskrit) "It was a mistake that I wanted some material benediction from You." This is pure, nirguṇa. This is nirguṇa. As soon as there is some demand, that is saguṇa, that is not pure. Simply (Sanskrit). Not mixed with (Sanskrit). Not (indistinct) jñāna and karma and yoga. (Sanskrit) Bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī, sakali 'aśānta.' Bhukti and mukti, they want some material profit. So Kṛṣṇa gives. And mukti, liberation, they are wanted by the jñānīs, to become free from this material botheration and become one with God. This is also another demand, jñānī. So bhukti-mukti, mukti, they want mukti. A devotee doesn't want mukti or bhukti. (Sanskrit) One who is actually devotee, he doesn't care whether he is (indistinct) in the heaven or (indistinct). He doesn't care. He simply wants to serve Kṛṣṇa, never mind where (indistinct), not even heaven or hell. The same thing, because a devotee does not live either in hell or heaven, he lives in Vaikuṇṭha always. He doesn't care for hell and heaven. Just like Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe [Bg. 18.61]. He is also lives within the core of the heart of the pig who is eating stool. Does it mean that Kṛṣṇa is in the stool? No.



*So nirguṇa, we have to remain nirguṇa. Then it is bhakti, and by that bhakti you can please Kṛṣṇa. That is called prema*-vilāsa. The devotee is eager to please the Lord as He wants. (indistinct) When you are eager to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, that is called vilāsa. And when you want to satisfy your senses, that is called kāma. That is difference between kāma and vilāsa. So here within the material world, all activities are going on as (indistinct). You can expand. First of all you are satisfied by satisfying your senses. Just like a small child. You give you him something eatable, and immediately he puts it in the mouth. This is satisfaction. He wants to satisfy his senses. When he grows up, he may distribute that eatable to his other brother and sister. So this does not mean you have changed the quality of sense gratification. (indistinct) In the material world we see sometimes you are working for your family. But if you work for the nation, you become a very great man. But what is the basis? The basis is sense gratification. Very big, big politicians, they work for the nation, sacrifice their life, but that exalted politician, it is not nirguṇa, it is saguṇa. You can expand, expand, expand-unless you come to the point of satisfying the senses of Kṛṣṇa, you are saguṇa. And when you live to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, that is nirguṇa, that is (indistinct). In that state, you can satisfy Kṛṣṇa and your life is successful.



Thank you very much. (end)





760407SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.52

-

Vṛndāvana, April 7, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead spoke: My dear Prahlāda, the most gentle and best of the family of asuras, let there be all auspiciousness for you. I am very much pleased upon you. It is My pastime to fulfill the desires of all human beings. Therefore you can ask from Me any benediction that you desire to be fulfilled."



Prabhupāda:



*śrī*-bhagavān uvāca

prahlāda bhadra bhadraṁ te

prīto 'haṁ te asurottama

varaṁ vṛṇīṣva abhimataṁ

*kāma*-pūro 'smy ahaṁ nṛṇām

[SB 7.9.52]



*So śrī*-bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān, this word, we have several times explained that the most opulent, six opulences, riches, aiśvaryasya... Śrī, aiśvarya, strength, bala... Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). This is Bhagavān. All six opulences in full. So if Bhagavān wants to fulfill one's desires, who can check Him? Here Kṛṣṇa, Nṛsiṁhadeva, says, prīto 'ham: "I am now pleased." So this is the business, how to please Kṛṣṇa. If He is pleased, then what you want more? Everything is under your control. Yasmin tuṣṭe jagat tuṣṭam. Everything will be fulfilled. Riches? You can... If Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon you, He can give you immense riches, as much as you want. That is wanted. Instead of endeavoring yourself to earn money... People are engaged to earn money, working very hard day and night. So if there is such thing that simply by pleasing Kṛṣṇa you can get as much money as you want, then why shall I earn money?



*So the foolish people, they do not know it. It is practical. Just like I went to your country with forty rupees, and now I am getting money, as much as I want. This is practical. No businessman can earn with forty rupees and within ten years forty crores. There is no instance in the history. This is the... Prīto 'ham. Because Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of all riches. That is Bhagavān. Bhagavān is not that when amongst His foolish disciples, He declares Himself Bhagavān, and when there is some toothache, He goes to the physician to help Him. Bhagavān is not like that. Bhagavān is self*-sufficient. So everything is full. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). So riches also... Not that Bhagavān, the Supreme Person, He is poor man, daridra-nārāyaṇa. No. He is full of riches. He can give you as much wealth as you want. And bhakta, a devotee, of course, does not want anything from Kṛṣṇa. That is śuddha-bhakta. But Kṛṣṇa supplies him wealth when he requires. There is no need of asking Kṛṣṇa. Some way or other, it will come. Just like a small child, dependent on the parents, whatever he requires, he does not ask from the parents, "Give me this." The parents know that this child wants this food, this cloth, this comfort, anything.

So this is the secret of bhakti. A bhakta does not endeavor for anything except devotional service. Karma, jñāna, yoga, these things are very popular. By karma, by activities, you can earn money and fulfill your material desire. That is called karma. And then jñāna. Jñāna means to understand that "I am spirit soul; *I am not this material body." And then there is another sphere of activities. That is spiritual activities, jñānam. And then yoga. Yoga means whatever you want, aṣṭa*-siddhi, aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, īśitā, vaśitā, whatever... This is yoga. So karma, jñāna, yoga. These are the different processes of opulence. Now, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Here it is said, kāma-pūraḥ asmi aham. "You desire something. So I'll fulfill your desire." Kāma-pūraḥ. "I shall fulfill your desire. Why you are bothering? You just become My devotee." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. [Bg. 18.66] "I shall fulfill all your desires. Why you are endeavoring? There is no need of endeavoring. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and whatever you want, you'll get it." This is wanted.

*So kāma*-pūraḥ.

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



*This is the recommendation in the śāstra. There are three kinds of men: akāma, sarva*-kāma, and mokṣa-kāma. Akāma means devotee. He doesn't want anything from Kṛṣṇa, akāma. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. A devotee does not desire wealth or many followers or beautiful wife. He is akāma. And sarva-kāma, the karmīs, they never... They are never satisfied. "More, more, more, more... Bring. Give me this. Give me this. Give me this." Sarva-kāma. And mokṣa-kāma, the jñānīs and yogis, they want liberation from this material world. After being karmī and jñānī, when they are disgusted, they become aspirant of becoming one with the Lord. So the śāstra says, "Any desire or no desire, you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then everything will be fulfilled, either devotee, jñānī, yogi." Because as soon as you become a devotee, the wonderful things you can perform by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. And... And ajñānī... Even one is ajñānī... Sometimes we find a devotee not even literate, but when he speaks, he speaks exactly the truth. That is jñānī. How it is possible? It is possible because Kṛṣṇa is behind him, the all-powerful.



vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yoga-prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*Anyone who surrenders himself to Vāsudeva*-vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]-fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa...



So vāsudeve bhagavati... To full... Surrender to Kṛṣṇa means to become spiritually active. Sometimes the Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that when we become Brahman realized, we become one with the Supreme; then all our activities stop. No, that is (not) the fact. The fact is we are now materially active, and when we finish our material activities, then our spiritual activity begins. You cannot make the living entity as inactive. That is not possible, because we are living; we are not stone. How I can be inactive? That is not possible. Inactivity is for the stones and irons. But we are not stones and irons. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. These Māyāvādī philosophers, they think to stop activity is the highest perfection. No. Our philosophy is stop foolish activities and begin real activities. That is bhakti. Bhakti is not stopping activity. Therefore we are engaging our devotees in so many activities. They are all spiritual activities. Spiritual activity is known as bhakti.

So,

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*The mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām, this is, means, that spiritual activities. Spiritual activity... Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Anuśīlanam. Anuśīlanam is activity, culivating. Anything you cultivate, that is not inactivity. There is activity. Rūpa Gosvāmī, he resigned from his ministership and came to Vṛndāvana under the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu not to become an inactive person. No. Nānā-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipuṇau. After giving up his ministership he did not come here to eat and sleep. No. Then he began to study various Vedic literatures. Nānā-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipuṇau. Just like any perfect person writing some book, he gives evidences from the Vedas. Vicaraṇaika-nipuṇau. They became very expert in considering the Vedic version, nānā-śāstra. In the Vedas there are many departments of knowledge-Sāma Veda, Yajur Veda, Ṛg Veda, Atharva Veda, Āyur Veda, Dhanur Veda, everything, Jyotir Veda. Therefore Veda is considered as the kalpa-taru, desire tree. Whatever knowledge you want, it is present. Veda means knowledge, and Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. The ultimate knowledge is to know Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. But in the meantime, meanwhile, there are so many department of knowledge, and you can understand from the Vedas. Everything is there, direction. So ultimately you have to understand Kṛṣṇa.



So here Nṛsiṁhadeva addressing, prahlādo bhadra, perfect gentleman. In India it is called bhadraloka. Bhadra means a perfect gentleman, bhadraloka. That is the general etiquette, to address somebody as bhadraloka. Especially in Bengal it is very common word, bhadra. And the other parts also. So bhadra means perfect gentleman. Just see. Prahlāda was perfect gentleman. A devotee is perfect gentleman. Why? Now, because he has developed all good qualities. That is bhadra. A devotee cannot be abhadra. He must be bhadra. That is perfection. Therefore a devotee is never rude to anyone. When Rūpa Gosvāmī was here, some very learned scholar to talk with him śāstrārtha, talking on śāstra. So when he approached Rūpa Gosvāmī, he asked that "I want to talk with you about śāstra." And he said, "I am not a very learned man. How can I talk with you? You are so learned man." So he said, "If you think that you are not learned, then you give me in writing that "I am not learned." So he immediately gave him: "All right, take it. I am not learned." (laughs) So when he was going away with that cheat, that "He is the most learned scholar, and Rūpa Gosvāmī's defeated," then Jīva Gosvāmī was standing outside. He said, "What is that paper?" "No, your uncle has written frankly that he is not learned. I am learned." "All right, talk with me." Then he defeated him.

*So sometimes devotees are so gentle. If such foolish person comes to talk, unnecessarily waste of time, "All right, you take in writing that I am not a learned. Go away." You see? This is another bhadra. Instead of wasting time with a rascal, better give him a paper: "Go away, sir." (laughter) And therefore Lord Śiva is called Āśutoṣa. So many demons go to bother him: "Give me this. Give me that." And his name is Āśutoṣa.. He gives him immediately: "All right, you take it. Go away. Don't bother." (laughter) Therefore his name is Āśutoṣa.. Very soon he becomes... Somebody prayed, "Sir, give me this benediction, that I shall... On anyone's head I shall touch, immediately head will go away." So Lord Śiva said, "All right, you go away. You take this benediction and go away." Then he wanted to touch the head of Lord Śiva, that "Let me test whether it is good or not." Then he was in danger. So sometimes Lord Śiva is put into danger because he... People, therefore, go to worship Lord Śiva to take anything he wants. Rāvaṇa also was a very great devotee of Śiva. Asuras, they are very great devotees of Lord Śiva to take material facilities. But if you... Of course, it is said, akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā [SB 2.3.10]. But anyone who goes to Kṛṣṇa, he does not want anything like this, that "I shall put my hand to anyone's head, and it will go."

*So Prahlāda is bhadra. He's not that type of devotee. He doesn't want anyone's inconvenience, bhadra. So how he became bhadra? Because he's devotee. It is said, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. As soon as you become a perfect devotee, all the good qualities of the demigods will develop automatically. We have already studied the story of the vyādha. He was a hunter, and by the grace of Nārada, when he became a devotee, he was not ready to kill even an ant. In the beginning his profession was hunting. He was very much pleased to kill the animal half. Sometimes the Muslims, they kill the animal simply, and it throbs and sufficient blood come also. They like that. So the hunters, some of the hunters, they also kill the animal half. So they take pleasure. I have seen in my own eyes in Calcutta. One hotel man was cutting the throat of a chicken and half*-cut, and the half-dead chicken was jumping like this, and the man was laughing. His little son, he was crying. I have seen it. He was crying. Because he's innocent child, he could not tolerate. He was crying. And the father was saying, "Why you are crying? Why you are crying? It is very nice." Just see. So without being devotee a man will become cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel, in this way go to hell. And devotee cannot tolerate. We have studied in the life of Lord Jesus Christ. When he saw that in the Jewish synagogue the birds were being killed, he became shocked. He therefore left. Jes... He inaugurated the Christian religion. Perhaps you know. He was shocked by this animal-killing. And therefore his first commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But the foolish Christians, instead of following his instruction, they are opening daily slaughterhouse.

*So unless one becomes a perfect devotee, he cannot become a bhadra, gentleman. That is not possible. Narādhamāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Unless one is a devotee, he is a duskrtina, most sinful man, narādhamāḥ, and the lowest of the human being. These are the qualification. So one has to become devotee. If you want to become bhadra, gentleman, you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is not possible. Otherwise it is not possible. You are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, at the same time gentleman-that is a false thing, pretender. A bhadra... Here it is said, bhadra. Prahlāda bhadra bhadram te [SB 7.9.52]. And when you become bhadra, gentle, perfect, qualified gentleman, then everything is auspicious for you. There is no inauspicity. Bhadram, everything. The bhadram... Here Vīra-raghavācārya, he explains this word, bhadram aniṣṭa-nivṛttiḥ: "no more anything inauspicious." Bhadram. Aniṣṭaṁ nivṛttiḥ iṣṭaṁ prāptis ca. Two things, that is bhadram. Very nice, Vira-raghavācārya's explanation. Bhadram aniṣṭa-nivṛttir iṣṭaṁ prāptiḥ. Iṣṭam means "whatever you desire," because a bhadra, a gentleman, cannot desire anything which is bad. A gentleman will not pray to Kṛṣṇa, "Please give me facility for eating meat." He'll..., mean, devotee never prays like that. Therefore abhadra-nivṛttiḥ. He never prays to Kṛṣṇa, "Please give me facility of drinking." No. Because he's bhadram. But abhadra will pray, will go to the goddess Kālī: "Mother, give me your prasādam meat." Abhadra. Why should we eat meat? Abhadra. Therefore this explanation is very nice, bhadram aniṣṭa-nivṛttiḥ. Aniṣṭa... If you eat meat, that means you become implicated in sinful activities. You have to be killed by your enemy, and he will eat you, or you become a goat or a hog or a cow, and your other person will kill you. Just like nowadays this contraceptive, abortion, killing the child is going on, so the same man, again he is killed by the so-called father and mother. It will act. Karmaṇo 'anya... Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyātra karma-bandhana. Unless you act for satisfying Kṛṣṇa*-you become bhadra-then whatever you'll do, there will be reaction. This is nature's law. You cannot escape. If you have killed an animal, then you must be killed by that animal. Māṁsa. Māṁsa means māṁ sa khadati. When I eat meat, māṁsa, it means, "This animal also will eat me again." This is māṁsa. Māṁ sa khadati. Is it all right?

Indian man: Mām means "me"; khadati means "eat." "Eat me."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is, means, māṁsa. You cannot escape this. "Life for life." That is the law everywhere. If you have murdered somebody, you must be killed also. So you can escape the so*-called state laws, but you cannot escape the laws of the material nature.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



(aside:) Don't talk.



*So we should not think independent. We must become bhadra. Then all auspicity will come. These two words, if you can understand... Prahlāda bhadra bhadraṁ te [SB 7.9.52]. If you are not bhadra, then you will remain always abhadra, rākṣasa or asura. And here it is said, 'prīto haṁ te asurottamam: "You are the best of the asura family." Because Prahlāda was born of a father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, and the most ferocious asura, so he cannot escape the relationship with his father, with reference to his father. "How can I say that I am not son of a...?" There is that asura, mean, facility or disadvantage. But he is uttama. He surpassed that platform. How it is possible? Now, because Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon him. Prīto 'ham. Although he is born in an asura family, low*-grade family, but because Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon him, he becomes immediately bhadra. This is the facility. So those who speak that the, these Europeans and Americans cannot become Vaiṣṇava, they are mistaken. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon them, immediately they become the best of the brāhmaṇas. Here it is said, prīto 'ham: "Never mind you are born in the family of asura, but because I am pleased, you are all-purified. You don't be disappointed." It is only... We require to please Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is all right. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, "Never mind he is born in the pāpa-yoni. It doesn't matter. But...," te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "because he has taken shelter of My lotus feet..."

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyaḥ śūdras tathā vaiśyās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*Kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā... [SB 2.4.18]. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says. Kṛṣṇa says, the Lord says, and it is confirmed by His devotee. These two things we require: whether it is approved by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and whether it is approved by His servant, devotee. Kṛṣṇa-guru-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. This is said by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*So if you want to approach the platform of bhakti, the platform of gentleman, say, bhadra, then guru and kṛṣṇa*-kṛpā wanted. So what Kṛṣṇa says, that is confirmed by the devotee, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ: [Bg. 9.32] "Never mind he is born in a low grade family, dog-eaters' family. It doesn't matter. But because he has taken shelter of Me," te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they'll go back to home, back to Godhead." You cannot check. You so-called gentlemen of this material world, you cannot check them. You may think otherwise, but they'll go back to home, back to Godhead. Who cares for you?



*So don't be depressed. Try to please Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is our only business. That is our only business, whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied or not. Then it is, everything, all right. Prīto 'ham. Prīto 'ham. Here it is said, prahlāda bhadra bhadraṁ te prīto 'ham: [SB 7.9.52] "I am fully satisfied upon you." Try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is auspicious. And then Kṛṣṇa will... Instead of begging from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will beg from whatever you want: "What you want, please tell Me." The devotee never wants, but Kṛṣṇa is anxious. Here it is said, varaṁ vṛṇīṣva: "You take whatever you like." So if you simply please Kṛṣṇa, He'll canvass, "My dear devotee, whatever you want, you take. You can take from Me." Varaṁ vṛṇīṣva. "So why shall I beg from You?" Now, kāma*-pūro asmi: "Whatever you desire, I can fulfill. I am so powerful." Kāma-pūro asmy ahaṁ nṛṇām. Nṛṇām, ordinary person. Because a devotee is above the nṛṇām. So, so long we are, remain in the material condition, we have so many kāmas, desires. But as soon as we come to the spiritual platform... Because there everything is ready, why shall I be desiring to have this thing or that thing? Everything is ready. Everything is ready. That is spiritual platform. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu [Bs. 5.29]. Kalpa-vṛkṣa. Everything, everything you want, it is ready immediately because there is Kṛṣṇa only, and He is always ready. What is that song? Gopījana-rañjana. Sing this song.

*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yaśodā*-nandana gopījana...



*Prabhupāda: Yaśodā*-nandana gopījana-rañjana. And in the beginning? Rādhā-mādhava...?



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kuñja*-vihārī.



Prabhupāda: Then...?



*Akṣayānanda: Gopījana*-vallabha.



*Prabhupāda: Gopījana*-vallabha.

*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Giri*-vara-dhārī.



*Prabhupāda: Giri*-vara-dhārī. Just see. Gopījana-vallabha. The gopīs and their husbands and sons, so they were in danger when there was torrents of rain. They were very much perplexed. They approached Kṛṣṇa: "This is the danger. What You can do?" "Yes." Immediately He lifted the Govardhana Hill as umbrella: "Come on under this." Gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī. This is Kṛṣṇa, that as soon the gopījana, they are in dangerous, He is immediately, although seven-years-old boy: "All right, I am making a big umbrella." Giri-vara-dhārī. This is Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa.



So the conclusion is that try to please Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful. Don't try... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. We have tried to improve our condition of life, even becoming the demigods, but don't think the demigods are without danger. We have learned from history, Bhāgavata, the *Purāṇas*, Indra was so many times perplexed. Even Brahmā was perplexed. You cannot avoid dangerous position within this material world even if you are a person like Brahmā. That is not possible. But if you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then everything is all right. So our business should be not to become very, very great person within this material world, because that will never be possible. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate, upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. In the higher planetary system or lower planetary system, whatever you desire, you can get a big position but never safety, never peacefulness. You'll never get. Do you think that in our this modern world... There are many, many Birlas and other, Tatas. Do you think they are happy? (end)



760408SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.53

-

Vṛndāvana, April 8, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Prahlāda, may you live a long time. One cannot appreciate or understand Me without pleasing Me, but one who has seen Me or pleased Me has nothing for which to lament for his own personal self."



Prabhupāda: "His own personal satisfaction."



mām aprīṇata āyuṣman

darśanaṁ durlabhaṁ hi me

dṛṣṭvā māṁ na punar jantur

ātmānaṁ taptum arhati

[SB 7.9.53]



*There are two common questions. Everyone, so many people, come to us. Their first question is that "I am not getting peace in my mind. How can I get peace?" Yes, how can you get peace? You have no connection with the Supreme Person. Kuto śānty ayuktasya. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is... How you can get peace? It is impossible. Many examples we have given many times. A child is crying. Everyone is trying to pacify the child, still crying. But as soon as the mother takes the child on the breast, immediately pacified. This is the... You are searching after peace life after life, moment after mo..., hour after... You cannot have peace unless you come to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not possible. Therefore it is advised, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. For that purpose, how you can see God or you can please God, tasyaiva, hetoḥ, for that purpose only, prayateta, one should endeavor. No other endeavor. Human life is meant for... That is Vedānta-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Where is Brahman? Where is the Absolute Truth? Where is God? Govinda-viraheṇa me.



Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, practical example, He is showing how to become anxious, mad: "Where is God? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣa prāvi... This is the ultimate hankering how to..., yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa. One should be mad after Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll see Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes they say, "Can you show me God?" Have you become mad after God? Then you can see. Otherwise God is not so cheap thing. You become mad after God and you'll see immediately. Premāñ... Who can become mad after somebody unless there is love? To love somebody, if you cannot see, you become mad, "How can I see? How can I see?" This madness, sometimes we can see example. Suppose a man's son has died, so he becomes mad. So that anxiety is required, as... We are now... At the present moment we are hankering after material sense enjoyment, "Where is sense enjoyment? Where is sense enjoyment?"

*So similarly, the example is given by Rūpa Gosvāmī, the hankering. He has given very nice example. Just like a young man is hankering after young woman. Natural. That is not artificial. Or a young woman is hankering after a young man. This hankering... Therefore, according to Vedic system, before the hankering becomes madly and one becomes spoiled by sex indulgence, he should be married. This is the psychology. At a certain age, twelve, thirteen years, woman, and fifteen, sixteen years, man, they become very, very much sexually hankering. Therefore the system is that at that time, psychological moment, the young girl and young boy should be married so that unity will endure. It will never break. There will be no more divorce. But when the hankering is exploited, then the whole life is spoiled. So Rūpa Gosvāmī is giving this example, that "When my hankering will be like the young man, young woman, hankering after one another?" It is very practically given. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣa prāvṛṣāyitam śūnyāyitam jagat sarvam. When that hankering is there, he sees everything vacant. This is psychological. So Kṛṣṇa is, can be seen. It is not that Kṛṣṇa cannot be seen. He can be... He is present everywhere. Āṇḍāntara*-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. He is not only within this universe, but He is within your heart. He is within the atom. Why you cannot see Kṛṣṇa? Because you have no eyes to see Him. That is the difficulty. Premāñjana-cchurita. That eyes can be prepared by the smearing the ointment of love.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja was chastised by his father so many ways, but he could not forget Kṛṣṇa. The love was fixed up. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became very much pleased, prīto 'ham. Prīto 'ham. Prahlāda atyanta. So mām aprīṇata āyuṣman. Āyuṣman, blessing: "Now you can live long," or "eternally live," āyuṣman. Āyuṣ means duration of life. When one approaches Kṛṣṇa... Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti. Duḥkhālayam [Bg. 8.15]. So long we have got this material body, material world, it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is full of miserable condition, and at the same time not permanent. Even if we accept miserable condition... Everyone is trying to live. A old man does not like to die. He goes to the doctor, takes some medicine so that he can continue his life. But he will not be allowed to live. Aśāśvatam. You may be very rich man, you may take many pills, many injection to prolong your life, but that is not possible. That is not possible. But as soon as you see Kṛṣṇa, then you get your eternal life. Eternal life we have got. We are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We do not die after the destruction of the body. We get another body. This is the disease. And when you see Kṛṣṇa, when you understand Kṛṣṇa, even without seeing, if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become eternal.

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti...

[Bg. 4.9]



Kṛṣṇa says. Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. To understand Kṛṣṇa is also seeing Kṛṣṇa, because He is absolute. There is no difference, as in the material world you understand something but you cannot see it. This is duality. But in the Absolute, if you understand Kṛṣṇa, if you hear Kṛṣṇa, if you see Kṛṣṇa, if you play with Kṛṣṇa, they are all one. This is called absolute. There is no duality.



*So if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, divyam, divine nature... Simply you understand that Kṛṣṇa is not like us: Kṛṣṇa has no material body, Kṛṣṇa is not unhappy, Kṛṣṇa is always happy*-simply a few things, if you become convinced that Kṛṣṇa's nature..., immediately you become eligible to be transferred back to home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so nice. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, and if you become convinced, "Yes, what Kṛṣṇa says, it is all right..." Just like Arjuna said, sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: [Bg. 10.14] "Whatever you have said I accept in total. No reduction, no..." Sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye: "Whatever You have said, I believe. I have taken. I have..." That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says something, and I understand something. That you go on with your millions of years; *it will never be possible. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa as He says. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. That is real understanding. Arjuna says, sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye. Ṛtam means fact. "Everything, whatever You have said..." Not that "I cut this side and that side..."

*There is a nonsense swamijī in India. He says, "We can take up what is beneficial, verses. Otherwise I reject." This is called ardha*-kukkuṭī-nyāya [Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176]. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya means... I have several times explained, one man had one chicken. So, and he was getting one egg daily. So he thought that "The rear side of the chicken is very nice. It is giving one egg daily, and the front side it is eating, expensive, so cut it. Cut the mouth and simply take the egg." The rascal does not know that if he cuts the mouth, there will be no egg. Similarly, if you make cut short of Bhagavad-gītā according to your whims, you'll never understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. You have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Arjuna understood. Sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye: "Whatever You have said, I understand. I have accepted it." So you accept it blindly even; then you are benefited. We may not understand.

*Just like Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Aham ādir hi devānām. Devānām means all the demigods, beginning with Brahmā. So Kṛṣṇa says, "I am prior to Brahmā," ādi. Ādi means at the beginning. So who will understand Him? Even one who believes in the śāstra, believes in the Brahmā's āyuḥ... Sahasra*-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. His one day, twelve hours, is forty-three lakhs of years multiplied by one thousand-means forty-three crores of years, our calculation. So Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. We cannot calculate the duration of life of Brahmā. And when Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādiḥ, "I am the father of Brahmā," so ordinary man, how he'll understand? He'll not understand. He cannot understand. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "Some forty millions of years ago I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So ordinary man, how he'll understand? They'll say "Mythology." It is not mythology; *it is fact. This was cleared by Kṛṣṇa, er, Arjuna, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You said that You have spoken, You had spoken so many years ago to the sun*-god. How can I believe it? You are my contemporary, of my age. How can I believe it?" Kṛṣṇa said that "Yes, you cannot believe it, but you and..., both you and Me, because you are My eternal friend, so you were also present that time when I spoke to sun-god. But you have forgotten, I have not forgotten." That is the difference. The difference is man and God, so God knows everything eternally and we forget. This is our nature.

*Therefore sometimes we forget Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Kṛṣṇa comes to remind that "Why you are forgetting Me? We are eternally related. So forgetting Me, you are suffering here. Give up all this nonsense." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. That is wanted. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people to cure his disease of forgetfulness. He has forgotten simply. Just like a madman forgets who is his father, who is his mother, he talks nonsense, sometimes he calls ill names. Mad. So similarly, we in this material world, without any Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are all mad, forgetful. This disease has to be cured. The best medicine is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nature's way, we have got this human form of life, but because on account of lack of proper education, we remain in forgetful condition from the animal life. But there is chance. That is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Anādi bahir-mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karilā. These rascals, from time immemorial they have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. And just to remind him, these Vedas, the Purāṇas, they are there.

But there is no education of these Vedas and Purāṇas. They are interested in Freud philosophy, Darwin's theory, all this nonsense. The Vedas, Purāṇas, are there; *they are neglectful. But the rascal philosophy, they are interested. Their life is spoiled. This is spoiling civilization. One has got the opportunity of understanding himself. He has forgotten himself, and there is bona fide literature how to understand himself. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta is there: "Now you inquire what you are." The inquiry must be there. Unless you inquire, automatically it will not be, because God has given you independence. Very little independence, but we are misusing. We are misusing. Therefore unless by using properly our little independence we accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, and surrender unto Him, there is no liberation. Kṛṣṇa can force you, but He does not do that. Because you have misused your independence*-you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa-again you have to use properly your independence and accept Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. That is wanted. This is the process.

Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa is coming, reminding? He does not touch on your little independence. He says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He can capture you immediately. Just like a naughty boy is doing something. The mother immediately capture and hits(?) him. But Kṛṣṇa does not want to do that, force. No. You do it voluntarily. That is wanted. So we must voluntarily come to Kṛṣṇa. Then He'll been seen. So how we can satisfy Him? He says that "You satisfy Me. You surrender to Me; *I'll be satisfied." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣa... [Bg. 18.66]. "Immediately I'll excuse from all reaction of sinful activities." Because He becomes pleased. He wants your surrender. And if you surrender, immediately He becomes pleased. Just like a son might have committed so many offenses to the father, and immediately if he comes, "Father, I have done wrong. Please excuse," immediately becomes... Immediately. That is the relationship of father and son. The father wants that "Somehow or other, if this rascal surrenders to me, I excuse him and immediately give my property to him." This is natural. So we have to surrender. That will please Kṛṣṇa.

*And without pleasing Him? Darśanaṁ durlabhaṁ hi me. You cannot see Kṛṣṇa. You may have your eyes, big, big eyes, but you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. You have to please Him. That pleasing activity is bhakti. Bhakti. And bhakti means the activities which will please Kṛṣṇa. Without that bhakti, means sitting down silently... No. "No, no. I am chanting. I do not want to go out. I am busy." Means excuse. What you will chant? You will think of money and woman, that's all. Just work. Go to sell books and work hard. That is wanted. Therefore we do not give that opportunity. My Guru Mahārāja did not give this opportunity, and we are following the same principle: no opportunity of sitting idle. No. You must work. That will rectify. Yes. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So in this way, if we... Simply if we accept, this is the... We change the name. Why? We change the name that "Now, from this point of initiation, you accept that you are Kṛṣṇa dāsa. You are trying to become master of the world. That is nonsense. You try to become Kṛṣṇa dāsa." Therefore we add this word, dāsa. This dāsa, that dāsa-everything Kṛṣṇa's name. So we have to accept, Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].

*So if we accept this principle, that "This is my nonsense activities, that I am trying to become very big in this material world, and that will not satisfy us..." Even Brahmā has no satisfaction. He is also full of anxiety. This material world is like that. You may be very, very, very, very, very big man, but anxiety you cannot escape. That is not possible. That is material world. Sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Samudvigna-dhiyām. Everyone in this material world, even this bird, a small bird, he is also always anxious that "So many people are here, and there is so many daṇḍas. They may not kill me." Therefore they're very cautious. As soon as you raise the daṇḍa, immediately they go away because anxiety is there. Or either in Brahma's life or ant's life, this is the material nature. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asat... Why? Asad-grahāt. Because you have accepted this material body, this means you have accepted anxiety.

*So we have to do in such a way that no more material body. And that is Kṛṣṇa's advice. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. And if you have got a pinch of material desire, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give you a type of body so you can satisfy your desires. But the material desire is never satisfied, one after another, one after another, one after another. In this way at the time of the death we are not satisfied. We desire some thing... [break] ...and then it is to be very easy. Mām aprīṇata āyuṣman darśanaṁ durlabhaṁ hi me. If somehow or other, if you can see Kṛṣṇa, dṛṣṭvā māṁ na punar janma. Punar jantur ātmānaṁ taptum arhati. There is no more necessity of undergoing austerities, and everything is free. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. If you have got Kṛṣṇa, there is no need of tapasya. You are free. And nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And if you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of your becoming so much religious, austere sannyāsī and yogi? The whole nonsense. All nonsense. Yadi... Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā... There is no meaning of tapasya if you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. And if you can see Kṛṣṇa, there is no meaning of tapasya. That is... Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. Antar-bahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, nāntar-bahir yadi haris tapasā... If you can see Kṛṣṇa always, outside and inside, then you have nothing to do, tapasya. Enjoy life by seeing Kṛṣṇa always. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I don't want anything. Please allow me to see You continually."

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760409SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.54

-

Vṛndāvana, April 9, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Prahlāda, you are very fortunate. You may know from Me that those who are highly elevated, wise persons try to please Me in all different modes of mellows because I am the only person to fulfill the desires of everyone."



Prabhupāda:



prīṇanti hy atha māṁ dhīrāḥ

*sarva*-bhāvena sādhavaḥ

*śreyas*-kāmā mahā-bhāga

sarvāsām āśiṣāṁ patim

[SB 7.9.54]



*So each word in this verse is very important. Prīṇanti hy atha māṁ dhīrāḥ. Dhira means very intelligent, not crazy, just the opposite of crazy. Dhīra. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā who is dhīra. There are many places. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*The simple thing that "I am not this body. I am living within this body, and because I am living within this body, the bodily changes are taking place," this simple thing... A dead child never grows, but a living child grows or changes body. So where is the difficulty to understand that there is something in the body, therefore the body is changing? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. A child is becoming a baby, baby is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming a middle aged, a middle*-aged man is becoming old man, so the old man, now, after giving up when it is useless, this body, no more workable, then he must get another body, as we have experienced after one stage of life another stage, another body. Where is the difficulty? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are intelligent, they are not, I mean to say, bewildered. They accept, "Yes, there is." Only the rascals, they cannot understand, the rascals. The opposite number of dhīra, the crazy rascals, they cannot understand. Simple thing.



*Now, if you study the whole world at the present moment, they do not believe in the soul. They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul from one body to another. Even big, big professors, big, big learned scholars, they do not believe. So therefore you can understand that what is the present population of the world*-all rascals. All rascals. They cannot understand the simple truth, and they are passing on as great scholars, great scientists, great politicians and so on, so on, but all of them rascals. That's all. This is the conclusion. Kṛṣṇa says, dhīras tatra na muhya... This transmigration of the soul from one body to another, Kṛṣṇa says, dhīras tatra na muhyati. And here also the same thing, prīṇanti hy atha māṁ dhīrāḥ sarva-bhāvena sādhavaḥ. The spiritual... If you do not understand what is spirit, then where is the question of spiritual life and advancement of spiritual life? There is no question. This is the beginning of spiritual existence..., education, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. They can understand.

So if we are sincerely Kṛṣṇa conscious, if we believe Kṛṣṇa... We have to believe. You believe or not believe, the words of Kṛṣṇa cannot be false. That's a fact. You may be rascal, you do not believe, but those who are dhīra, they believe. They believe. If you have love for Kṛṣṇa... There is no question of love or no love. This is the fact. So one has to become... This is the ultimate goal of life, that one has to become dhīra, not like cats and dogs, jumping here and there. That is not human life. That is dog life.

*yasyātmā*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*These classes of men, yasya, whose life is bodily conception... "I am body." "I am a Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am..." The whole world is fighting on this because they are all crazy, not dhīra. This is the modern civilization. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape. This is a bag of bones and flesh and blood, and they are thinking that they are, they are this body. So wherefrom the living force coming if you are this body? Because as soon as the living force is gone, the body is useless, a lump of matter. So do you think this lump of matter is giving life? But they are not dhīra. All rascals, they cannot understand. The word is very important. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. How the rascals will understand? Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate the rascals, that's all. Simple thing. We challenge everyone that "You are rascal number one. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is our challenge. Come forward. We say, we challenge, "You are rascal number one. You take education in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make your life perfect." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nobody is dhīra.



*So here those who are dhīra actually, those who have understood his identity... Ke āmi kena āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. This was the question by Sanātana Gosvāmī to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "You asked me to join Your movement. I was minster in Nawab Hussain Shah's government, chief minister. Now I have... On Your word I have given up. So You have kindly brought me from this hellish condition, simply politics and pounds, shilling, pence. So it is a great mercy for me of Your Lordship. But my first question is ke āmi: 'What I am?' " This is the first question. It must be... Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Here the same word is used, śreyas-kāmāḥ. Śreyas-kāmāḥ. Anyone who is dhīra, he'll inquire about the ultimate goal of life, śreyas. There are two things, śreyas and preyas. Preyas means immediately very nice. Suppose somebody says that "Oh, there is a very nice dancing girl singing, and why you are here, saṅkīrtana? What you'll enjoy? Come here. There's a very nice girl." That is preyas. Preyas means immediately very pleasing. And one comes here, that is śreyas, means it will do him ultimately good. So there are two things, way. Those who are foolish persons, they are after śreyas..., er, preyas, immediately palatable. And those who are intelligent, dhīra, they are after śreyas. Śreyas-kāmāḥ. Without becoming śreyas-kāmāḥ, nobody can be Kṛṣṇa conscious. If one is preyas-kāmāḥ, if one wants to enjoy this material world, sense gratification, he cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. Only śreyas-kāmāḥ.

*So how to... "Yes, I am śreyas*-kāmāḥ. I... Yes, I want what is the ultimate goal of life. Yes." That is... Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is a fact. So śāstra also says, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. The śreyas-kāmāḥ. If you are actually serious about the ultimate goal of life, then you approach a guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. If you are actually inquisitive to understand what is sreyas, that is śreyas-kāmāḥ. kāmāḥ means desiring, and śreyas means ultimate good. Not preyas-kāmāḥ. If you want to enjoy these material facilities, then you can go to such kind of men, such kind of men, and... If you want to learn drinking, so go to a club where drinking is very encouraged. Preyas-kāmāḥ. If you want to enjoy sex, go to the club where prostitutes are available. That is preyas-kāmāḥ. But if you want to reach the goal of life, then go to Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. There are two kinds of men, sreyas-kāmāḥ, preyas-kāmāḥ, so two things are there. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for the śreyas-kāmāḥ. And who becomes śreyas-kāmāḥ? Mahā-bhāga, with great fortune. Not ordinary person. Unfortunate or misfortunate, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Mahā-bhāga. Very, very great fortunate person.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirms this in His teaching to Rūpa Gosvāmī. He said,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*They are traveling, wandering. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad*-asad janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. These rascals who are not dhīra, they are thinking independent, rascals. Not a single moment you are independent. You are controlled. Even if we are dropping our eyelids, there is regulative principles. Some demigod is controlling. Breathing. Breathing, there is control. You can breathe for so many years, that's all, and live. And when the breathing is finished, then you are not controller. The great scientists, they are begin oxygen gas, injection. Can you increase the period breathing for a moment? No. Controlled. Controlled. You cannot increase your breathing even for a moment. So the yogis, they try to save the breathing. That is yogic process. Samādhi. They practice breathing control so that without breathing they can remain. Recaka, kumbhaka yoga, so they can increase their life. Suppose I shall live for eighty years or hundred years. There is breathing period. If I can save breathing, then I can live more. Just like your bank balance. If you don't spend it, your balance is all right. But you spend it, then the balance will be zero some day. Similarly, the yogic process is to control the breathing. And the breathing is lost in large quantities when there is sex life. (breathes rapidly and loudly-laughter) Finished. So control the breathing, it requires celibacy, no sex life. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamaḥ. That is called yoga, not that showing some gymnastic and smoking and yoga system. This is going on. Your country is cheated by so many rascals, yogis. You know it very well. The one great yogi was found having sex with his disciple. You know that? Who is that?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Saccidananda.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So they go for women and money because you are fooled. You are yogi, and they show some gymnastic, that's all. But real yoga system is yoga indriya*-saṁyamaḥ, how to control the indriyas, especially the mind. In this way one can become advanced, dhīra. That is yoga system. It is an artificial means to become dhīra, because without becoming dhīra there is no question of advancing in spiritual life. That is not possible.



*So this dhīra, who can...? Mahā-bhāga. Mahā-bhāga, very, very great fortunate person. How he becomes dhīra? Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān*-this mahā-bhāga-kono bhāgyavān jīva, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. By the blessings of guru... If by his great fortune he comes to a real guru, then he gets the opportunity. That is the test. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān. This opportunity is not for everyone. Kono means somebody. So guru-kṛṣṇa. If actually one is trying to be dhīra, Kṛṣṇa is there within every... Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. And He advises, guru-kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says, "Now..." Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, out of his sentiment, went to the forest and to see God. His mother said that "Your, this mental condition cannot be relieved because you want to challenge your father to have the kingdom. So I am poor. I am, although your mother, I cannot request your father. So if it is possible, Kṛṣṇa can do it." She was Kṛṣṇa conscious; therefore the child became so nice, Dhruva Mahārāja. A child inherits the quality of mother, boy; *and girl inherits the quality of father. That is the general rule. So his mother was devotee, so he'll naturally become a devotee by the advice of the mother. He went to the forest. So..., but he had no spiritual master. Out of sentiment went to the forest. But Kṛṣṇa saw from within that "This child is so serious about Me. Oh, send him Nārada. 'Nārada, you go there. Initiate him.' " Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, this mantra was given to Dhruva Mahārāja by Nārada Muni. So he practiced that mantra, and with austerity, and he saw Kṛṣṇa. And when he saw Kṛṣṇa, he's completely pure from all material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. When Kṛṣṇa wanted to give him benediction, he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I am fully satisfied. I don't want anything." This is Kṛṣṇa conscious, dhīra. No more want. Why want? Here it is said that śreyas*-kāmā mahā-bhāga sarvāsām aśiṣāṁ patim. Such persons who are dhīra and most fortunate and sees Kṛṣṇa, then what remains to possess? Everything is there. Sarvāsām aśi... All kinds of benedictions are there, all kinds of. That Kṛṣṇa will take care.

*So these things are very nice, that one has to become dhīra, and he can become dhīra. Either he was fortunate, or after becoming dhīra he is fortunate. Both ways he is fortunate, mahā*-bhāga. And sreyas-kāmāḥ. When one becomes a devotee he does not anymore ask for anything material. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. This is dhīra. He frankly says that "I don't want riches. I don't want many followers. I don't want nice wife, very beautiful wife." These things are material demands. They are very much fond of worshiping Durgā. Why? Dhanaṁ dehi rūpavati bhāryāṁ dehi yaśo dehi. These are material. But Kṛṣṇa says, "These persons who are asking for material profit from the different demigods, it can be fulfilled. They are fulfilling." But antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavati alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23]. These material gains, they will stay for a few days or few years. Because you are creating another body.

*So in this body... Suppose you have got immense wealth, immense men under you, or very beautiful wife. How long you shall enjoy? Immediately, mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś cāham: [Bg. 10.34] "You do not like Me. You like these things. All right. At the time of death I shall take away everything-finish." This is fact. After death where is your beautiful wife? Where is your wealth? Where is your followers? Everything finished. Now according to your karma, you have to accept the body of a dog. Nature's way. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. "You have infected doggish mentality. Now you become a dog." This is nature's way. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-sango 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. You have simply associated with the tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, no sattva-guṇa, so you have to accept a body, rajas-tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa means animal, and rajo-guṇa means the karmis, and sattva-guṇa means jñānīs. So if one is struggling in this life how to accumulate money, that means rajo-guṇa. Rajas-tamo-bhāvā kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. We can understand who is under rajo-guṇa, who is under sattva-guṇa, who is...

*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanty sattva*-sthāḥ

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasā

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthāḥ

adho gacchan...

[Bg. 14.18]



*Those who are tamo-guṇa, they are going-adho gacchanti*-in the animal life. This law is going on. You believe or not believe. If you don't believe, then you are a foolish rascal, and if you believe, then you are dhīra. So we shall become a dhīra. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760410SB.VRN

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.55

-

Vṛndāvana, April 10, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Prahlāda Mahārāja was the best person in the family of demons. Demons always aspire for material happiness, yet even though Prahlāda was somewhat allured when the Supreme Personality of Godhead offered him benedictions for material happiness, because of his unalloyed Kṛṣṇa consciousness he did not want to take any material benefit for sense enjoyment."



Prabhupāda:



evaṁ pralobhyamāno 'pi

*varair loka*-pralobhanaiḥ

ekāntitvād bhagavati

naicchat tān asurottamaḥ

[SB 7.9.55]



*So this is conclusion of Nārada Muni, that this boy, although born in asura family... Asura means those who are too much materially... Not too much, only materially interested, they are called asuras. Different types of material enjoyment. Karma, jñāna, yoga, they are all material enjoyment. Karma, karmīs, generally we see everywhere. They are working so very hard, making plans how to improve material enjoyment. So they are called karmīs. And jñānīs, their demand is also very great, to become one with the Supreme, to become God. These are material desires. And then yoga, to display, demonstrate magic: "I can prepare gold. I can travel in the sky. I can walk on the water. I can eat broken glasses." Yes. People will gather. "I can remain without any breathing underneath the ground." These things are demonstrated. So people like it, something wonderful. And he says, "I am Bhagavān," and the rascals accept. These things are loka*-pralobhanaiḥ. Loka-pralo... These things can mislead the people in general, but they are not very much attractive to the devotees. Devotees are not attracted.



*In the history of the devotees there was one devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Īśāna. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to give him some benediction. He was very poor man. Even his roof, thatched roof, that was not properly... There were so many holes. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "My dear Īśāna, if you like, you can take some benediction." "No, why I shall take benediction?" "No, you have no roof even on your thatched house." He said, "Why? There are many birds. They are living on the tree. There is no roof at all. I have got roof with some holes, that's all. And they have no roof at all, so how they are living? For this purpose I shall ask You benediction? No, no, no." In this way he refused. So that is pure devotion, that "I shall not take any benediction from the Lord, but I shall give everything to God." This is. There is competition. The Lord wants to give the devotee all opulences, and the devotee refuses to accept it. He wants to give his life and soul to the Lord. This is perfection. The gopīs, the gopīs, the ideal, the topmost devotee, they gave their everything to Kṛṣṇa, but they did not ask anything from Kṛṣṇa. Their honor, their body, their life*-everything, sacrificed everything. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said to the gopīs that "I have no power to repay your debt. You be satisfied with your own activity. I cannot give you anything."

*So this is the ideal devotion. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhūbhir yā kalpitā: "There is no more better, sublime upāsana, worship, than it was conceived by the gopīs." They did not want anything. They simply wanted to see Kṛṣṇa, how He is satisfied. Kṛṣṇa is away from home in the forest, and they are thinking, "In the forest there are so many crags, so many stone chipped, and Kṛṣṇa's feet is so soft. How He is walking in the forest?" In this way they are crying. This is gopī, always Kṛṣṇa conscious, and how Kṛṣṇa is happy or not, that is their business. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, "There is no better form of worship than it was done by the gopīs." So Prahlāda Mahārāja... There are stages of devotees. So gopīs are the topmost, and amongst the gopīs, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is the topmost. Therefore there is no comparison of Rādhārāṇī's love for Kṛṣṇa. There is no comparison. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu took the part of Rādhārāṇī to understand Kṛṣṇa. So these are very confidential subject matter, but they are described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, in the beginning. So that is the highest perfection, that don't ask anything from Kṛṣṇa. Try to make such arrangement that Kṛṣṇa may not give you anything; you give to Him.

*There is another narration of Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī. They were living in this forest of Vṛndāvana. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was elder brother, and Rūpa Gosvāmī was younger brother. So they were living underneath a tree. So they had no means. Rūpa Gosvāmī thought that "If I could get some articles, I could prepare something and invite my guru, Sanātana Gosvāmī." So just after a few minutes one very nice young girl came with so much presentation, rice, dahl, ghee, and so many other things. So She came and offered to the gosvāmī. The saintly persons are addressed as "bābā." "Bābā, please take this presentation. We have got some ceremony at our home, so my mother has sent. You take it." So he was very glad: "Oh, I was thinking if I could get some nice things, I could prepare and invite Sanātana Gosvāmī." So he was very glad to receive those articles and invited Sanātana Gosvāmī and prepared so many nice foodstuff and offered to the Deity, and Sanātana Gosvāmī was given the prasādam. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was very pleased, and he inquired, "Rūpa Gosvāmī, where you got these nice things? You are living in this... How you could receive all these things?" "Yes, my dear brother, I was just thinking in the morning. In the meantime a very nice young girl came and offered so many things, so I could..." "So what is that? Who is that young girl in this forest? So how She was looking?" "Oh, she was very, very beautiful." "Oh, Rādhārāṇī. Oh." So he was very sorry. "You have taken service from Rādhārāṇī? Oh, you have done very wrong. We are trying to serve Rādhārāṇī, and you have taken service from Rādhārāṇī?" He rebuked him. This is pure service. They are avoiding to take service from Kṛṣṇa*-Rādhārāṇī. And Kṛṣṇa-Rādhārāṇī was finding out the opportunity how to serve the devotee.

*This is the competition between Kṛṣṇa and His devotee. Kṛṣṇa wants to give everything to the devotee. He wants to see that "My devotee is very comfortable." Just like the father wants to see the children are very comfortable. So why the devotees should be hankering after something material? No. Kasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana*-durmadāndhān [SB 2.2.5]. Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. Why we should go to the puffed-up rich men for begging something? Kṛṣṇa will arrange for everything. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "You do not try to preach for getting some money. Money will come automatically. On your feet money will say, 'Please accept me.' " You should preach very sincerely. That is your business. Never bother that "Where is money? Where is money, money, money?" Money... Muktir mukulitāñjaliḥ sevate asmān dharmārtha-kāma samaya pratīkṣāḥ. This is a statement of Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura.

bhaktis tvayi sthiratarā yadi bhagavān syād

*daivena naḥ phalati divya*-kiśora-mūrtiḥ

muktiḥ (svayam) mukulitāñjali sevate asmān

*dharmārtha*-kāma(gatayaḥ) samaya-pratīkṣāḥ



*People are hankering after dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa*-religiosity, economic development, and then sense gratification, and then mokṣa. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Human civilization begins-dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. Otherwise animal.



*So dharma means this varṇāśrama*-dharma. Varnāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. So Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura said that "You simply become devotee. You don't hanker after this dharma, artha, kama, mokṣa. No. They will serve you. You do not require to call them. They themselves will come and serve you. You just become a pure devotee." Samaya-pratīkṣāḥ. Mukti. Why devotees will ask for mukti? They are already mukta because they have no material activities; *all spiritual activities. Brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26].

So in the platform of dharma, to become very religious, moral, who can be more religious than the devotee? Who can be more moralist than the devotee? A devotee is not prepared to kill even an ant. So who can be more moralist? These things are already there.

yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā

sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ

*harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā

*mano*-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ

[SB 5.18.12]



*If one is pure devotee, then he has all the good qualities. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja was addressed, prahlāda bhadra bhadraṁ te [SB 7.9.52]. Bhadra, a gentleman. Who can be more gentleman than the devotees? The devotees are thinking, "How these rascals will be happy?" Prahlāda Mahārāja, śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān: [SB 7.9.43] "My Lord, I am thinking that these rascals, simply for flimsy happiness, temporary happiness, they are making so gorgeous arrangement." Big, big road, big, big building, big, big car, congested. If you want to go one mile it will take two hours. Māyā-sukhāya. We have seen in your country. You'll go two miles in a car in three hours. So what is the use of this car? In London I have seen. I was going. It was about two miles, and it was so congested that it took two hours. Paris is always congested. So in India also they are becoming like that. So this is māyā-sukhāya. They are thinking that "Getting a car, we shall be very, very happy," but there is no place to drive car. (laughter) Therefore it is called māyā-sukhāya. And for manufacturing this car there are three thousand parts. So many factories are going on for that. Who was telling me that within a few minutes a car is prepared in the Ford's factory? Somebody was telling. They bring the different parts of the car and mix and assemble them within half an hour. That means each half hour they are manufacturing car.



*So, of course, sometimes we require car. But we should not forget Kṛṣṇa simply for the manfacturing and riding car. This is foolishness. This is foolish. We can utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like we have got so many cars... Not here. Here also we have got many, eight to ten buses and cars. In the foreign countries each temple has got more than dozen cars. So, but these cars are used for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to make the best use of a bad bargain. So we never use car for sense gratification. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta*-vairāgyam ucyate, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari... A sannyāsī is supposed to walk. But if somebody criticizes, "Sir, why you are flying on airplane?" no, that is our not principle. The Jain sannyāsīs, they never use cars. Now they have begun. Because I am traveling all over the world, now the Jains, they are also. (laughter) But our philosophy is different. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Suppose I have to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness in Europe or America. So because a sannyāsī has to walk, therefore I shall walk throughout the whole life to go to America? This is foolishness. If I can go to America within fifteen hours for preaching facility, why shall not I use the aeroplane? Why shall I stick... It is called niyamāgraha, "without any profit," to follow the regulative principle without any profit. No. If we get opportunity, preaching facilities for going on car, on airplane, using typewriter, dictaphone, microphone, we must use it. Because this is Kṛṣṇa's property, it must be used for Kṛṣṇa. This is our philosophy. This microphone is Kṛṣṇa's. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. So when it is used for Kṛṣṇa it is not material; it is spiritual.

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

*hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

*phalgu*-vairāgyaṁ kathyate



So anything which can be used for Kṛṣṇa's service, that is not material; *that is spiritual. So we must use it. But not for sense gratification. Therefore we have to use and work exactly under the direction of spiritual master. Otherwise it will be sense gratification. Don't manufacture. Guru*-mukha padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra na kariha mane āśa **. If you want to be guided, then take in every step the words of guru. Manufacturing will not help you. Prahlāda Mahārāja become so great because he was initiated by Nārada Muni. That is required. Chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava sevā, nistar payeche kebā. Nobody can become perfect without serving the bona fide spiritual master. That is the motto. So evaṁ pralobhyamāno 'pi varair loka-pralobhanaiḥ [SB 7.9.55]. So much attractive... Now, if somebody says, or Kṛṣṇa says that "I'll give you immediately five lakhs of rupees and one beautiful girl also. You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement," how many will be restrained? That is very difficult. But our boys have been tested. They are not after money, most of them, or women. But generally... Therefore it is said, loka-pralobhanaiḥ. In this material world everyone is after money and woman. Money and women. That is called viṣaya. Viṣaya.



*So there is verse. I (am) just now forgetting. Mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. Mahat-sevā. Mahat-sevā means to serve the mahātmās or devotees. That is the way of liberation. Tamo-dvāram... Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. So this material world means that yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam, to be attracted by money and woman. This is material world. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned very rigidly, hā hanta hā hanta viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam, paraṁ jigamiṣa... What is that? Eh? I forget that verse. The brain is not working.

*Sac*-cid-ānanda: Parāṁ paraṁ jigamiṣoḥ...



*Prabhupāda: Ah, parāṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣanato 'py asādhu [Cc. Madhya 11.8], that one who is very serious for going to the other side of this material world-that means spiritual world*-they should be very, very careful about money and woman. May not be trapped, victimized.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja was not deluded by any kinds of material profits. Evaṁ pralobhyamāno 'pi. Kṛṣṇa, Nṛsiṁhadeva said, "Prahlāda, you take. Whatever benediction you want, you take." So he said, "Sir, I am your servant. I am not a merchant that in exchange of something I will have to give You service. No. Please do not delude me." Just see what kind of servant he is. Evaṁ pralobhyamāno 'pi varair loka*-pralo... Ekāntitvād. "What is the reason?" The reason is that determination of Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, that "We shall simply serve Kṛṣṇa. We shall not accept anything but Kṛṣṇa." This is ekāntitvād. "My... I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. "I shall simply serve. I shall give everything, whatever I have got." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, manasa deha geha, yo kichu mora, arpilūn tuwā pade, nanda-kiśora. What we have got, nonsense? Everything Kṛṣṇa's. But still, He has given us something. What is that? This body, this mind. This body for sense enjoyment and the mind for speculation. So body, mind. Manasa. And a little home, a wife, some children. We can claim. That is also not actually ours. That is given by Kṛṣṇa. "You want to enjoy your senses? All right, take this."

*So when one is advanced devotee, he says, "My Lord..." Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: "I have got these assets: my mind, my body, and my wife and children, and maybe something else." Yo kichu mora, arpilūn tuwā pade, nanda*-kiśora: "Nanda-kiśora, Kṛṣṇa, everything is offered to You. Now whatever You like, You can do." Marobhi rākhobi: "Now I have given to You everything. I am now zero. Now, if You like, You can give me protection, or if You like, You can kill me. I don't mind." This is ekāntitva, simply depending on Kṛṣṇa. Ekānitvād bhagavati. Depending on whom? Kṛṣṇa. Not these demigods. Demigods cannot give you protection. Kṛṣṇa can give you. Demigod... Just like a very, very big person, Rāvaṇa. He was a great devotee of Lord Śiva, but Lord Śiva could not give him protection when Rāma was determined to kill him. So any other protection will not save you. It is false protection. When Kṛṣṇa gives you protection, that is real protection. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. That is real protection. So ekāntitvāt. Simply depend on Kṛṣṇa, bhagavati.

So one who is such devotee, simply depending on Kṛṣṇa, naicchat, he doesn't require, neither he desires all those material profits. Tān asurottamaḥ. Asurottamaḥ. Although he was born in the asura family, materialistic family, still, he is uttama; *he is no more in the material world. Uttama. Udgata*-tama hy asmād. Tama means this material world. So those who are devotees, they are not living in this material world. They are in the spiritual world, uttama. It doesn't matter in which family he is born. Everyone can become a devotee. There is no hindrance, and there is no check in any material condition to become a devotee. Simply one has to desire how to become a devotee. Then it is fulfilled.

Thank you very much. (end)



SB 7.12: Lectures





760412SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.12.1

-

Bombay, April 12, 1976



Pradyumna: "Nārada Muni continued to speak: A student should completely practice how to control the senses, be submissive. Firmly in friendly attitude upon the spiritual master, with great vow, the brahmacārī should live at gurukula only for the benefit of the guru."



Prabhupāda:



*brahmacārī guru*-kule

vasan dānto guror hitam

ācaran dāsavan nīco

*gurau suḍṛdha*-sauhṛdaḥ

[SB 7.12.1]



So as it is stated that human life is meant for tapasya, austerity... Tapasa. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1], that this human form of life is meant for tapasya, not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. And tapasya, austerity, begins from brahmācārya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena vā [SB 6.1.13]. This is tapasya. Brahmācārya means restraining sex life, celibacy. That is brahmācārya. So when one is serious about advancement of spiritual consciousness, he must live under the control of the guru to learn how to become brahmacārī. This is main purpose.



*The whole Vedic civilization is on the basis of controlling the senses. The yoga practice, it is also meant for controlling the senses. Yoga indriya*-saṁyamaḥ. By some artificial bodily exercise one can control the senses. That is called yoga. But one who becomes directly a devotee, his sense control is automatically done, if he is devotee. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. If one is devotee, then he does not like anything material. And the sex enjoyment is the topmost pleasure in this material world. So naturally one who is devotee, he doesn't require to practice brahmācārya separately-paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]-because sex pleasure may be very nice in this material world, but when one gets a sense of spiritual pleasure, then this pleasure becomes abominable. It is said by Yamunācārya,

*yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor

*nava*-nava-dhāmany (udyataṁ) rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame (smaryamāne)

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*"Since I have begun to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness and getting relish, then, since then, when I think of...," bata nārī*-saṅgame, "sex pleasure with woman, I spite on it and my mouth becomes curved, 'Eh,' like that."



*Actually it is the position, but because we are under the spell of māyā, we are captivated, bewildered, that after sex life, not only human being, but anyone who is living within this material world, beginning from Brahmā down to the smallest insect, everyone is after sex life. We have heard that even Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, they became sexually excited. It is said that Lord Brahmā was enchanted by daughter, what to speak of others. This material world is so, I mean to say, bewildering, that sometimes the first*-class person also becomes bewildered by sex life. Therefore it is strictly prohibited that one should not remain in a solitary place with woman even though the woman is mother, sister or daughter. This is the injunction of the śāstra. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na viviktāsane vāset, balavān indriya-grāmo vidvaṁsam api karṣati [SB 9.19.17]. This is the order, that mātrā... Mātrā means "along with mother," svasrā mean "along with sister," and duhitrā means "along with daughter." "One should not sit down in a solitary place even with mother, sister or daughter."

*So one may be surprised, that "Nobody becomes agitated, sitting before mother, sister or daughter." But śāstra says, "No, no. They are agitated." Then you can say, "Maybe agitates some fool rascal." "No." Vidvaṁsam api karṣati: "Even though one is very advanced, learned, they also become agitated." Therefore you should be very, very careful. Very, very careful. And another place is, another... Just like in our society, compulsorily we have to mix with women*-not only women, very beautiful young girls. But if one is not agitated even in this association of beautiful women and girls, then he is to be considered paramahaṁsa. He is very advanced. Those who are not... Paramahaṁsa means he's above all these material qualities.

*So we cannot avoid in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That was the problem from the very beginning. In India there is restriction between men and women, free intermingling, but in your country there is no such restriction. Therefore I got my disciples married. They criticize me that I have become a marriage*-maker. Anyway, I wanted at least to regulate. That is required. Dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Kṛṣṇa also says. Now, a married man also can be brahmacārī. If a married man stick to one wife, and before sex, if he takes permission from his spiritual master, then he is brahmacārī. Not whimsically. When the spiritual master orders him that "Now you can beget a child," then he is brahmacārī. Śrīla Vira-Rāghava Ācārya, he has described in his comment that there are two kinds of brahmacārī. One brahmacārī is naiṣṭhikī-brahmacārī; he doesn't marry. And another brahmacārī is... Although he marries, he is fully under control of the spiritual master, even for sex. He is also brahmacārī.

*So why so much restriction on the sex life? The people do not understand throughout the whole world. They are captivated by sex life, especially in the Western countries. Puṁsāṁ*-striyaṁ-mithunī-bhavam etat. Material existence means a desire of sex life, both man and woman. Puṁsāṁ-striyaṁ-mithunī-bhavam etat. Not only in human society, in animal society, in bird society, everywhere, that is material life. Tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ. And when they are united for this purpose, a man and woman, they... We are already attached to the material activities. Then our attachment becomes more and more strong. Tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ. Then, out of this attachment, ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. In this way, being united, then they want gṛha, apartment, to live together. Then they want some land. Formerly there was no service. The gṛhastha used to produce the food grains from the land. Neither there was factories or big, big offices to get job. One had to produce his own food from the land. So simply apartment will not help. I must require some land for eating. Gṛha-kṣetra-sūta. Then we desire for some children. Sūta, āpta, then friends. Sūta, āpta. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta vittaiḥ. But all these establishment can be maintained by money only. Then money. Then, in this way, gradually, janasya moho 'ham. We are already bewildered. We are attached to this material world, but when we are united, man and woman together, our attachment for this material world becomes increased. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Material world mean "I am this body, and in relationship with this body everything is mine," this conception. They forget altogether that "Nothing is mine. Even this body is not mine. Even I am not mine. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's." That is wanted. Unless we get to that status of life, that "Nothing belongs to me. This body also belongs to Kṛṣṇa; I, as spirit soul, belong to Kṛṣṇa; and everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa...," then we become liberated. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13].

*This human form of life is meant for tapasya, to learn how to become detached from this material world. And the beginning is this brahmacārī life. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ. Dānta means self*-controlled. That is real teaching. Either a gṛhastha lives... If a gṛhastha lives, even he has got wife, he does not... One side, according to Vedic civilization, there is no sex life except for begetting a nice child, and that also with garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. In other words, whimsically sex life is completely stopped in Vedic civilization. There everything under regulation. Therefore brahmacārī means how to control the senses, to keep under his own control, not that "I am now sexually inclined. I must have immediately sex." No. Dānta. That is taught. Just like in our society, even gṛhastha, he is also under restriction, and what to speak of brahmacārī. But we should always remember that this human life is meant for controlling the senses. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. It is simply meant for inquiring about our spiritual life. That is perfect civilization.

Therefore brahmacārī means living under direction of guru, guror hitam. And guror hitam... How he can be simply thinking of benefiting the spiritual master? Unless that position comes, nobody can serve guru. It is not an artificial thing. The brahmacārī, the disciple, must have genuine love for guru. Then he can be under his control. Otherwise why one should be under the control of another person? Therefore it is said, ācaran dāsavat. Dāsa. Dāsa means servant. Not only servant, but menial servant. Menial servant means just like the sweeper, the cobbler, like that. They are called menial servants. So in India there is system. The sweeper class is different, the cobbler class is different, and domestic servant is different, and the barber, he is also servant, different. The washerman, he is also servant. So nīca means just like the washerman or the barber or the cobbler. They are less than the domestic servant at home. They are śūdras, and they are considered less than the śūdras, pañcama. So a disciple is expected to live in gurukula or... Gurukula means at the shelter of guru; *nicavat, menial servant. Menial servant. Nīcavat. Ācaran dāsavan nīco gurau sudṛdha sauhṛdaḥ. This can be possible when one is very thickly related with the guru. Otherwise ordinary relationship will not do. One who has got actually the conviction, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo... **. One who is convinced that "If I can please my guru, then Kṛṣṇa will be pleased..." This is called sudṛdha, full faith. Yasya prasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. "And if I displease my guru, then I have no place." In this way... Of course, guru cannot be a false guru. False guru has no such thing. If one guru is genuine and the disciple is genuine, then both of them are benefited and they go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



760413SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.12.2

-

Bombay, April 13, 1976



*Pradyumna: "At both the junction of day and night, namely early in the morning and in the evening, one should be fully absorbed in the thought of the spiritual master, fire, the sun*-god, and Lord Viṣṇu, and by chanting the Gāyatrī mantra one should worship them."



Prabhupāda:



sāyaṁ prātar upāsīta

*gurv*-agny-arka-surottamān

*ubhe sandhye ca yata*-vāg

japan brahma samāhitaḥ

[SB 7.12.2]



Samāhitaḥ word is better or the appropriate. Sanātana is also appropriate, but it is better word, samāhitaḥ.



*So the first training, how to create a brahmacārī... This is human civilization. Unless one comes to the platform of varṇāśrama*-dharma... This Hindu dharma, this is not the proper word. Hindu, this word, is not found in the Vedic literature. It is a foreign word, from Sindu to Hindu. It is the word given by the Muslims. The other side of the Sindu, the Muslim countries begin. So the Muslim used to call this part, the other side of the river Sindu, "Hindu." So our real, this Bhāratavarṣa, real dharma, is varṇāśrama-dharma. Here it is not said, "Hindu dharma." Brahmacārī. Four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So the beginning of life is brahmacārī, how to remain a celibate. It is very scientific. People have neglected this culture and they are suffering. It is so essen... Because they do not know what is the aim of life, so in the Bhagavad-gītā all these people have been described as mūḍha, rascals. They do not know what is the aim of life.

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*These people, especially modernized people, according to śāstra and scientifically... It is not the śāstra accuses mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa says. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is angry upon anyone. Actually, one who does not know the aim of life, he is mūḍha, rascal, that's all. He does not know. Simply they are working so hard like animals and eating, sleeping and mating, and they are thinking this is the end of life. Therefore they are mūḍhas. That is not life. The birds and beasts, they are also doing the same thing. In the morning they find out any tree, anywhere they stop, and small fruits they can eat. So the eating arrangement is already there, although they have no kitchen or hotel. The eating arrangement is there. And then sleeping: they have got a small nest. Or without nest, they sit down on the top of the tree and sleep. Eating, sleeping, and mating, sex. There is always a pair, one male, one female. They are born like that. The sex is there. Eating is there, sleeping is there, and being afraid of other animals, that is also there. As soon as they are little afraid, immediately the sparrow goes up to the... You cannot catch him. So these things are there even in the animal life, lower grade of life. But is that human life is also meant for that, the same thing? There is no other aim of life? No. That they do not know. Therefore śāstra says, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know what is the aim of life.



The aim of life is how to become free from these clutches of māyā, repetition of birth and death. That is the aim of life.

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



This is aim of life. One has to become mahātmā, greater soul, great soul, must understand. So therefore there must be training. Without training, how... Because after all, we are coming from the lower grade of life, animal life, and they are very expert scientist that "Man is coming from monkey." That's all right, but shall you remain a monkey or you shall become a better person than the monkey? But they have preferred to remain as monkey. That's all. When there is impotency, they borrow glands from the monkey for increasing their sex appetite. That means again going to the monkey. Punar mūṣiko bhava. There is a story that a mouse approached a saintly person. "Sir, I have come to you for some favor." "What is that?" "Now, I am mouse. The cats gives me much trouble. I cannot live peacefully on account of the cats." So the saintly person asked, "What do you want to become?" "I want to become a cat." "All right, you become a cat." Then after some time he again came: "Sir, I am still bothered." "Why?" "The dogs, they bother me." "Then what do you want?" "Now, let me become a dog." "All right, you become a dog." Then again after some time he came back, that "Still they bother me, sir." "What do you want?" In this way, after, one after, he, at last he begged the saintly person to become a tiger. So the saintly person, "All right, you become a tiger." Then, when he became tiger, he began to stare his eyes on the saintly person. The saintly person, "What do you mean by this?" "I shall eat you." "Oh, you shall eat me? All right. Punar mūṣiko bhava: Again you become a mouse. I have made you tiger, and you want to eat me. So you become again mouse."



*So our civilization is like that, that in the gradual process of evolution we have come to the platform of human being. This human being is meant for understanding God, but they are forgetting God. Therefore the next stage is punar mūṣiko bhava, "Again become monkey." That is waiting us. The nature's law is like that, that from monkey we have become human being, and in the human being we are dancing like monkey. So nature will say, "All right, again you become monkey." You cannot check that. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. This nature's process is going on, but we are so advanced scientist that we do not know how nature is working. Automatically working. Nature's way of working is automatic. Just like you have got so many automatic machine, similarly, this is, this machine is made by the Supreme Lord. It is perfect machine, one after another, one after another. So just like if you infect some disease, nature's way, you will develop that disease. That is the way. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. This is stated. Now we have got this nice human form of body, but if we associate with the low-grade qualities of this material world-means tamo-guṇa-then again we are going to become animal automatically. They do not know it. They are thinking, "I am enjoying life by eating meat and drinking wine and having illicit sex and gambling. It is very joyful life." But he does not know that he is associating with tamo-guṇa, and he is going to be an animal, cats and dogs and monkey. This is a fact.

Therefore we should be very, very careful. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply a very scientific movement that will help the human society not to be degraded again, to be elevated.

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*This chance is there in the human form of life. If you want to be elevated to the higher planetary system, you can do that. Yānti deva*-vratā devān. Why you are jumping with a jet plane to go to the moon planet? If you prepare yourself... There are methods; *otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva*-vratā? "If you want to go to the higher planetary system, you prepare yourself in this life. You'll be next life..." Tyaktvā deham: "You shall go there. Or if you want to remain, go to the planets of Pitrloka, you can go there. And if you prepare yourself to come to Me, back to home, back to God, you can do that." So what should be our aim of life? We shall go to the higher planetary system or back to home, back to Godhead? "Back," we say, because we have come from God. Just like one man is put in the prison house. He has come from his free home. By his work he is criminal; therefore he is put into the prison house. Similarly, we are all part and parcel of God. Our real home is Vaikuṇṭha. But we have come here. How we have come, that is a very mysterious thing; *but we are part and parcel. Somehow or other... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, anādi karama phale, padi 'bhavārṇava*-jale. Somehow or other we have fallen this. Therefore the real aim of life, how to get out of this bhavārṇava, nescience, that is the aim of life. If we remain again like the monkeys and cats and dogs, eating, sleeping, mating, and dancing, that is not very responsible life. Every man should be responsible. That is Vedic culture, to create responsible man, not varṇa-saṅkara. Therefore Arjuna was very much afraid that "After war the women will be widows, they will be polluted, and varṇa-saṅkara population will come out." Actually that is the fact. After the last war the hippies have come out all over the world. This is the fact.



*So if there is varṇa*-saṅkara population, that means the human civilization is lost. Therefore here is the civilization, how... In this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Nārada Muni is describing how civilization should be advanced. The first proposal is brahmacārī, how to create brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dānto guror hitam. What is that? So what is the duty of the brahmacārī, it is now said. The first duty is that sāyaṁ prātar upāsīta: "They should be taught how to worship the Supreme Lord at least twice in a day," sāyaṁ prātaḥ, "in the morning and in the evening." Tri-sandhya. The prescription is for tri-sandhya. One should take bath three times. In India there is no difficulty. Even in Western countries you have got very good arrangement, hot water and cold water. You can arrange and can take bath. This is essential. Not that sleeping up to ten o'clock. This kind of civilization will not help you. This asuric civilization will degrade the human society. He got the opportunity of elevating himself, even going back to home, back to Godhead. But for want of real civilization they are going again back to monkey and cats and dogs. This is a fact. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save them from going back to become cats and dogs. Instead of going back there, they are trying to send him back to God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*So the first teaching is brahmacārī should rise early in the morning. Brahmacārī... That is the general education. It doesn't require that you have to learn some book immediately. No. First of all build your character. Otherwise what is the use of taking degrees if you have no character? Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. If you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa... Just like in our institution they are being trained up as devotee, so to rise early in the morning is automatically there. There is no separate training. Because he is devotee, he has to rise early in the morning for offering maṅgala-āratika, and you have got our order that everyone must attend the maṅgala-ārati. That is automatically brahmacārī. Eh? Sāyaṁ prātar upāsita. And what is the upāsana? The first guru. Guru, agni, arka-means sun*-and then God. Therefore you see in our Deity room there is picture of guru first of all. First of all your guru, then his guru, then his guru-at least four, five generation, because the spiritual knowledge is received through the paramparā. I have received from my guru; you are receiving from your guru; and my guru received from his guru; *he received his guru. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Ādau gurvāśrayam. You cannot learn to become a perfect human being without accepting guru. Then you remain a rascal. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the Vedic injunction. If you want to learn that transcendental science, you must approach a guru. Guru principle is the same, not that your guru and my guru will be different. If he is actually guru, then there is no difference between my guru and your guru. Just like a medical man. You consult one medical man; *I consult another. That does not mean the medical man is different. They are depending on the same medical science. So guru means the following the same principles. Evam paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. The first guru is Kṛṣṇa, the supreme guru. He is the guru of Brahmā even. Brahmā is the first creature of this universe. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Then Kṛṣṇa spoke to the sun-god. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham. So anyone, if we follow Kṛṣṇa, then we are actually guru. And if you do not follow Kṛṣṇa and want to become Kṛṣṇa, then you are rascal. This is the test. If you want to have a perfect guru, then you have to see whether he is speaking on behalf of Kṛṣṇa or on his own behalf. One who speaks on his own behalf, manufactures, he is not guru. He's a rascal. One who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Therefore guru is so worshiped.

*Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

*upadekṣyanti tad*-jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Jñāni means tattva*-darśī. Tattva means Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, paraṁ tattva. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam [SB 1.2.11]. Tattva. What is that tattva? The tattva is described in three phases: vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam. Tattva-jñāna is one. What is that? Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. So Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu svayaṁ bhagavān. So guru, according to the capacity of the student, he teaches first about Brahman, then Paramātmā, then Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate knowledge of tattva-jñāna. And one who teaches this tattva-jñāna, he is guru. Otherwise he's a rascal. So therefore the first indication is that if you want to become a real human being, then you must approach a real guru and learn from him. Mold your life in that way. This is human civilization. Then, after guru... Gurvaṣṭaka we chant daily. Guru. What is the duty of the guru?



*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇārṇavasya

vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāravindam **



*We have Daily we understand what is guru. Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya, citette kariyā aikya, āra nā kariya mane āśā **. This is that. This is wanted. If you have got real guru and if you follow him, then your life is successful. There is no doubt. But if you have a so-called bogus guru, and without any knowledge of the śāstra, then your life will be spoiled. Especially the Māyāvādī guru, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. Māyāvādī guru means one who thinks that everyone is God. That is Māyāvādī guru. If you approach such guru, then your life is spoiled. Māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Finished. Your spiritual progress finished. So in this way, guru, arka, these are the training. Where is that training? Where is that school? So why they will not learn from eight years, ten years of age, smoking bidi and cigarette? When I was in America first, I saw some little boys, not more than ten to twelve years, smoking cigarette. I was astonished that "What kind of education is there?" But they don't mind. Even in their classroom, the elderly young boys and girls, they smoke before the teacher. I have seen it in New York University. So this is not training. Training is he must be very controlled. And if you teach from the beginning, then he will be trained up. There is a Bengali proverb, gancai noale vas, mas korbe tans tas(?): "When the bamboo is green, you can bend it, but when it is yellow, dried, it will crack." So education begins from the very childhood. That is education. Therefore gurukula is required. It doesn't require how much he has learned ABCD and grammar. No. First of all character. That is gurukula living. Let him become dānta, guru-gṛhe. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dāntaḥ. How to become sense controller, that is first education.



*So these rules and regulation, as it is prescribed, guru, arka, agni, and then Bhagavān... You cannot jump over directly to Bhagavān. Then you will never be able to be successful. You have to go through guru, agni, śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. This is the way. Then ubhe sandhye ca yata-vāk. You should not talk nonsense. Mahāprabhu has very strictly forbidden, grāmya kathā nā karibe. We talk. That has become our training. As soon as we assemble, a few persons, immediately we talk all nonsense-politics, this politician, that politician, this is that, this is that*-and waste our time. You talk something substantial. You talk about the śāstra. Talk about the aim of life, the problem of life. But they are described in the śāstra as the croaking of the toads, "Kakaka kakaka kakaka." Don't talk nonsense. Simply be engaged in talking about Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. Our talking should be engaged about vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇana. Vaikuṇṭha means the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, about Him. We can talk so many things about Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we require to read books. Bhāgavatam means it is full of topics of Kṛṣṇa and His devotee. That is Bhāgavatam. And Bhagavad-gītā is full of instruction given by Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you talk about that? Caitanya-caritāmṛta... We have got so many books. This should be our principle; *we should not talk any nonsense. That is called yata*-vāk. Yata-vāk means gontrolling the talking power. Yata-vāk. Samāhitaḥ, very sober. Try to become sober, don't talk nonsense, and abide by the orders of guru and śāstra. In this way training begins. It does not mean that you have to learn very big grammatical rules and... No. That you shall see later on. First of all build up character. Then it will be helpful to make further progress in spiritual life.

Thank you very much. (end)



760414SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.12.3

-

Bombay, April 14, 1976



Pradyumna: "Being called by the spiritual master, one should study the Vedic mantras regularly, and every day, before beginning his study and at the end of the study, the disciple should offer respectfully his obeisances unto the spiritual master."



Prabhupāda:



chandāṁsy adhīyīta guror

āhūtaś cet suyantritaḥ

upakrame 'vasāne ca

caraṇau śirasā namet

[SB 7.12.3]



This is the training. The brahmacārī should rise early in the morning and worship guru, agni, fire, sūrya, and in the morning there should be class, and on the order of the guru, they should assemble and begin reading Vedic literature, chandāṁsi.



So for reading Vedic literatures it does not require any erudite scholarship. Simply one has to hear. Therefore the another name of Vedic literature is called śruti. Śruti smṛti purāṇādi [Brs. 1.2.101]. This class means that everyone has to learn Sanskrit? No, that is not necessary. You may be a very good scholar or not, but Kṛṣṇa has given you the facility of seeing and hearing. You have got eyes; *you have got ear. So in the gurukula the students, they first of all attend the maṅgala-ārati, guru*-vandana, hearing. Then hear this Vedic literature. Here is Vedic literature, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā. They are all Vedic literature. The Mahābhārata is Pañcama-veda. The four Vedas are there, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva. And Mahābhārata is Pañcama-veda, the fifth Veda. Stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocarā [SB 1.4.25]. Woman and śūdra and dvija-bandhu, they cannot understand Vedic language. It is difficult. For them Vyāsadeva made Mahābhārata. In the manner of studying history, Mahābhārata... Mahābhārata means the great history of greater India. So in that history, Vedic literature, Pañcama-veda, there is the Bhagavad-gītā, essence. So if you read Bhagavad-gītā, even if you read Mahābhārata, that is all Vedic literature, Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa, the Purāṇas, the Upaniṣad, Vedānta-sūtra, and the Vedas, original Vedas. Original Veda is Atharva Veda. Atharva Veda was divided into four parts, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva. So they are all Vedic literatures.

*So especially in this age Bhagavad*-gītā is essence of Vedic literatures, and it is based on the Vedānta-sūtra. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, hetumadbhir viniścita. Brahma-sūtra padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścita. This Bhagavad-gītā is based on Brahma-sūtra. Brahma-sūtra means Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta-sūtra is very important. It is the summary of Vedic study, sūtra. The janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], this is a sūtra, a synopsis. And you can explain very nicely from the Vedas. So there are small sūtras, aphorism. From that aphorism you can expand. The Vedānta is the summary of all the Vedic literatures, anta, the supplement of the Vedic literatures. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. Bhāṣyāyāṁ brahma-sutrāṇām. In every chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find brahma-sūtra-bhāṣya: "This is real commentary on the Brahma-sūtra." So one should read daily at least one, two hours. That is human life. They are going to the libraries for reading newspaper and nonsense literature, but they will not come to hear Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the essence of Vedic literature. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam [SB 1.1.3]. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, nigama. Nigama means Vedas. Agama, nigama. So nigama-kalpa-taru. Vedas just like desire tree. Whatever knowledge you want to get, there is perfectly there, without any mistake, without any illusion, without any cheating. All other literatures, man-made literatures, you will find these things: cheating, imperfectness, mistake, and illusion. In the Vedic literature you won't find these four defects. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, if you give evidence from the Vedic literature, it is to be accepted. No more argument. Anything which is accepted in the Vedas, vedavatā, there is no more argument. This is Indian civilization. All our literatures you'll find, therefore, full of quotation from Vedic literature to prove it. That is the actual. It is not imaginary.

*So one should read or hear chandāṁsi. Chandāṁsy adhīyīta guroḥ. It is guru's duty. Ādau gurv-āśrayam. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tad-vijñāna, transcendental knowledge, one should approach guru. So guru-kula means guru's place. So he keeps the disciples to learn the Vedic literature. This is guru-kula. We are constructing such big, big houses. Why? We are inviting people to come here and live in this guru-kula and learn Vedic literature. This is our purpose. Bombay is a very big city, people are rich, so we can give you nice room, nice prasādam. Come here, live here at least once in a week and learn Vedic literature, Vedic civilization. The essence of Vedic literature is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyāyāṁ brahma-sutrāṇāṁ vedārtha-paribṛṁhitam. Our mission is to invite people to take advantage of learning Vedic literature, chandāṁsi. And what is the ultimate goal of studying Vedic literature? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam: [Bg. 15.15] to understand Kṛṣṇa. So therefore our movement is known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*So chandāṁsy adhīyīta guror āhūtaś cet suyantritaḥ. Very well behaved. Just like machine works systematically. You have seen. Everyone has seen. The machine of the watch is working very systematically, correctly. Similarly, every student, every disciple must work very correctly, like the machine. There is no question, "Why you did not attend school or the class?" You cannot say that "This is this. This is this." No. As machine work, everyone should attend the class, rise early in the morning, attend maṅgala-ārati. This is called suyantritaḥ, working like machine, no discrepancy. That is wanted. Suyantritaḥ. Then upakrame avasāne. In the beginning the students should come and offer obeisances to the lotus feet of guru. This is begin. Ādau gurv-āśrayam. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. This is the principle. If you offer your respectful obeisances to guru, he becomes pleased. Anyone, even one is offender, if he comes and offers obeisances to the superior guru, then even there was offense, he forgets. Father. Father of... The son may be offender, but when he comes and offers his respect to the father, he forgets. So that should be done regularly, suyantritaḥ, just like machine. As soon as one sees guru, immediately he must offer obeisances. Beginning, end also. When he comes to see guru he must offer obeisances, and when he leaves that place he must offer obeisances. And in the in-between, coming and going, he should learn from the guru Vedic understanding. This is the principle of living in gurukula.

*So upakrame avasāne ca caraṇau śirasā namet. Just at the lotus feet of guru the brahmacārī... So our students, they are very obedient. And if our students see the guru hundred times, he practices this process, offering obeisances while meeting and while going. These things are to be practiced. Then dānta. Brahmacārī guru*-kule vasan dānta [SB 7.12.1]. Then he'll be controlled, self-controlled. Obedience is the first law of discipline. If there is no obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And if there is no discipline you cannot manage anything. That is not possible. Therefore this is very essential, that the students should be very disciplined. Disciple means one who follows discipline. This is disciple, śiṣya. The Sanskrit word is also the same, śiṣya. I have several times explained. Śiṣya, it comes from the verb śās, śāsana, ruling. So śiṣya means one who voluntarily accepts the ruling of the spiritual master. He is called śiṣya. Śiṣya, śāsana, śāstra, śāstra, śāsana-these things are the same, from the same root. So this is the instruction.

chandāṁsy adhīyīta guror

āhūtaś cet suyantritaḥ

upakrame avasāne ca

caraṇau śirasā namet



This is essential. To make the human life real civilized, the children should be sent to the gurukula. But there is no gurukula at the present moment. So we are starting. We have got some gurukula in the United States, Texas. We are starting another gurukula in Vṛndāvana, and we can start another gurukula here in Bombay to train the students. I wanted to start this gurukula long, long, ago before going to the USA, in 1960, say '62, '61, but I approached so many gentlemen friends; they never agreed to give their sons to gurukula. They never agreed. Everyone said, "Swamijī, what benefit there will be by training our students in the gurukula way? They have to earn their bread."



*So that is India's position now. They do not care for their original culture. They are after money. You teach them something to earn money. Therefore they are after technology. This is not experience in India. In U.S. also, many Indian students question me. Long ago, when I was speaking in the Berkeley University, one Indian student came forward and he said, "Swamijī, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa will do? We have to learn now technology." He said. So this is India's mentality at the present moment, that they are not very much interested in the spiritual advancement of life. It is very risky, very risky, because these foolish persons, they do not know how much risky it is to spoil the human life simply for eating, sleeping, mating, and gambling. This is very risky life. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific movement. It is trying to save the human society from risky life. Risky life means that if we are not cultured, if we do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and properly trained up, there is every chance to become again cats and dogs next life. This is the understanding. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. I repeatedly say you. Kṛṣṇa confirms. Kṛṣṇa says and we are repeating Kṛṣṇa's word. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ: You have to change this body to another. And if you do not properly work like human beings, and if you keep yourself like cats and dogs, then dehāntara-prāptiḥ means you get the body of cats and dogs and pigs. So they do not know this science. Therefore they want to forget that there is life after death. They think after death everything is finished, but that is not the case. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to help everyone so that he may not fall again to the cycle of birth and death at the risk of becoming cats and dogs.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760415SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.12.4

-

Bombay, April 15, 1976



Pradyumna: "The brahmacārī should carry in the hand pure kuśa grass, dressing himself regularly with a belt of straw, a deerskin garment, a bunch of hair, a staff and waterpot, as well as the sacred thread."



Prabhupāda:



*mekhālajina*-vāsāṁsi

*jaṭā*-daṇḍa-kamaṇḍalūn

bibhṛyād upavītaṁ ca

*darbha*-pāṇir yathoditam

[SB 7.12.4]



*So description of brahmacārī is going on here, the dress. The dress should be as simple as possible. So the ajina means the deerskin. That is very essential because formerly the brahmacārīs used to go to guru*-grha. In those days the guru-gṛha was not palatial building. Now if you haven't got palatial building, nobody will come. The different stage. But actually brahmacārī, the guru also, they were living in the forest, and brahmacārī used to go that guru-gṛha. So the deerskin in the forest is very essential. Just like we take some blankets, we can spread anywhere and sit down. Deerskin, it is said that if you have got deerskin, you can sleep in the jungle; *the snake will not touch you. That is the dravya*-guṇa, the special effect of deerskin. Either tigerskin or deerskin, if you sit down, if you sleep, the snakes will not come. This is also very scientific. Therefore, because the brahmacārīs used to live in the jungle, it was essential. But on the whole the huts are(?) recommended, not that gorgeous dress, very nice bedstead or... As far as possible, yāvad-artha, whatever is absolutely necessary... That is Vedic civilization. Vedic civilization does not recommend that artificially you increase your necessities, life, and there is so much trouble. Just like nowadays in your country the machine is there in every respect. Even for shaving your cheek you require a machine. So this increasing the artificial necessities of life is possible when there is no higher thought. After all, we are thoughtful. We have got better consciousness in the human form of life than the animals. Our consciousness is developed. But because in this age, material world, we have no spiritual idea, so whatever power we have got in thinking, we are trying to increase artificially material way of life. "The idle brain is a devil's workshop."



*So this is called anartha. Anartha means things which are not wanted. This is the distinction between East and West. If I can lie down... The Eastern civilization is that "If I can lie down on the floor, where is the necessity of a bedstead or a cot? There is no. If I can lie down, keeping, resting my head on the arms, why there is necessity of pillow? If I can, say, drink water with my palms like this, what is the use of any waterpot?" Minimize. Minimize. Spiritual life does not mean artificially increasing the necessities of life. Nidrāhāra-vihāraka. Even the most important necessities of life, āhāra... Everyone has to eat something. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. These are bodily necessities: eating, sleeping, sex, and taking precaution from danger. These are bodily necessities. But spiritual advancement means, as Rūpa Gosvāmī and other Gosvāmīs showed us example, they conquered over this, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau ***-to conquer over sleeping, to conquer over eating, to conquer over sex, and to conquer over fearing. Fearing, we have got... We are afraid because we are thinking, "I am this body." Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśitaḥ syāt. The question of fear comes... Just like this body. If there is some danger, why we are fearful? Because I am thinking, "I am this body." Dvitīyābhiniveśitaḥ. I am soul, every one of us spirit soul. Kṛṣṇa is spirit soul. So even after the destruction of body, I do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. But this realization we are lacking. Therefore, when there is some danger about my body, I become fearful. This is dvitīya... But that does not mean unnecessarily we expose to danger. No. But we must have this consciousness, that "This body is temporary. Even it is destroyed, I am not going to die. But if Kṛṣṇa likes to be destroyed, let it be done so. Where is the question of fear?" But that does not mean I'll not take any precaution. I must take precaution. But I shall not be overwhelmed. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ. If I think... Just like in car, there was some little accident the other day. So although there was accident, we did not care. We began to walk. Because we know that "Because there is some accident, then we are lost"-no. So the more we become spiritually advanced, these things come in. Nidrāhāra vihārakādi. Those who are accustomed to material habit, at the time of drinking tea, if he does not get a cup of tea he becomes mad after it, because too much materially inclined. But you have given up. You know that "Without drinking tea, I am not going to die. Why shall I be, unnecessarily take all these things?" This is spiritual life. Spiritual life does not mean go on increasing your material necessity and you become spiritual. No. Minimize. Minimize. Yāvad artha-prayojana. As much as required. We shall talk very measured thing. That is spiritual life.

*So brahmacārī is taught. From the very beginning he is taught to shortcut the necessities of life. Shortcut. Yes. Mekhalājina-vāsāṁsi jatā-daṇḍa-kamaṇḍalūn. Jaṭā. Jaṭā means the bunch of hair. Means you should not take care of the hair. Then automatically it will become jaṭā. If you apply very nice coconut oil and with comb you dress very nicely, then there will be no jaṭā. The jaṭā means don't (take) care of your hair. If you want to keep hair at all... First of all, there is no question of caretaking if you become clean-shaved. There are two processes. A brahmacārī, either he is clean-shaved or he keeps his hair without any taking care. That is two processes. Jaṭā-kamaṇḍalūn. Not that "I shall keep my hair." Now in the Kali-yuga the hair is very valuable thing, life and soul. I have seen some of our disciples. As soon as he's out of this camp, immediately hair, immediately. I have seen so many. When he was within the camp, very advanced supposed, but as soon as he is one day after, he keeps hair. Immediately. The tendency is there. Because in this age it is understood that if you can keep hair, bunch of hair, not very nice, but simply hair will make him beautiful. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. Although he has no lāvaṇya*-he has no beauty-still, he thinks, "I have become very beautiful by keeping hair." So this should be avoided. In this age, of course, this jaṭā is not possible. If you keep jaṭā, then when you go on the street for begging alms for guru, then perhaps you'll be chained (changed?) by so many animals here. So it is better to remain clean-shaved. It has no botheration, no taking care of the hair, no iron required.

*So jaṭā*-kamaṇḍalūn bibhṛyāt. Bibhṛyād upavītam. But the sacred thread must be there, sacred thread. That is the sign that, that "This person has approached guru." The sacred thread is the indication that he is twice-born. First of all he was born by the father and mother; now he has approached guru, and guru gives him initiation and sacred thread. That means he is under the care of guru. That is required. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Unless one takes shelter of ācārya, he is careless. Not careless; *he is not taken care of. He is vagabond. If one does not take shelter of ācārya, then he is a vagabond. Therefore in India we see so many vagabonds: no employment, no caretaker, loitering in the street, playing at noontime, no engagement. This is the defect because we have lost our own culture. Although this culture-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsī*-is Indian culture, unfortunately we have given up. Varnāśrama-dharma, varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas, they're simply giving up. No more brāhmaṇa, no more kṣatriyas, no more vaiśyas, no more śūdras. They are less than śūdras. Pañcama. Less then śūdra means caṇḍāla. Kirāta-hūṇāndra-pulinda-pulkaśāḥ. There are so many divisions of caṇḍālas. Pañcama. They are called pañcama. So the whole thing is topsy-turvied. We have given up our own culture and imitating the foreigners and the Western country. That also we cannot do very properly because we are meant for different purpose in India. In India, one who has taken birth in India, it is understood that in his previous birth he tried to cultivate spiritual culture; therefore he has been given the opportunity to take birth in India. India is so fortunate. But as soon as he takes birth, the rascal leader spoils him, the rascal father spoils him, the rascal teacher spoils him. So what can they do, the poor younger generation? They are being taught that "The spiritual culture is useless. Because we are so much spiritually inclined, the foreigners came and they ruled over us. Now give up all this nonsense. Become technologist." This is going on.

*So this will not make us happy. This is a fact, that punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. There is no meaning of giving up spiritual cultivation and taking to or imitating something. This is called anartha. Anartha means unnecessarily you are inclined. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is meant for guiding us. Anartha-upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. These rascals, they have forgotten their own culture. They have accepted so many anarthas, unwanted things. Take for example drinking wine. Is it very necessary thing? But drinking tea, is it very necessary? Drinking... Smoking bidis. These are all foolishness. At the cost of bidi smokers, many millionaires are there in India and in your country also, at the cost of the smokers, many million... At the cost of the meat-eaters, there are many, many rich men. So the society is creating unnecessarily entanglement, anartha. So this, the Bhāgavata culture, Bhāgavata-dharma, which we are trying to spread, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is the only remedy for curbing down this unnecessary so-called civilization. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. This thing... Practically everyone can see that you Western boys and girls, so many anarthas you practice, but as soon as you come to bhakti-yoga, everything is finished. So this is a fact. Anartha-upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. If you take to bhakti-yoga, immediately anarthas, unwanted things, will be finished. Lokasya ajānata. They are trying to minimize the anarthas. In your country, you know, the government spending millions of dollars to stop this LSD habit. The government has admitted that "We are spending so much money, but when these boys come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately they stop." Anartha-upaśamaṁ sākṣāt. It is a practical. The government has failed to stop this intoxication habit, LSD, spending million of dollars. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa the same hippie, the same LSD man, as soon as he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he becomes completely clean. Upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje.

*So if you want to be peaceful, happy, you have to again bring in the Vedic culture, simple life and high thinking. That is wanted. If you introduce more and more anarthas only, unwanted things, how you can be happy? We have to minimize even whatever we absolutely require. Absolutely we require āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. It has to be curtailed. That is civilization, not that increasing. This is a misguiding civilization. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. This is a civilization where a blind man is guiding a few others or many other blind men. So what is this civilization? The leader, he is a rascal. He does not know what is the aim of life, and he has become leader. So many talking. When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, so I asked him this question, that "After all, you are required, you are in need of a leader. So you are being led by your Lenin philosophy and we are being led by Kṛṣṇa philosophy. So where is the difference in the procedure? You require a leader; *we require a leader. That is wanted. Without leader we cannot go. But if you select a bad leader, blind leader, then you remain blind." That, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is that you have to accept one leader. That you cannot avoid. Either you become communist or capitalist or this or that, you have to accept one leader. So take the best, first*-class, perfect leader: Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise it is not possible.

*Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ [SB 1.7.6]. These rascals, they do not know how to accept leader. And vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitā. Therefore Vyāsadeva is the most learned person, vidvān. He has prepared the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. So if we read, nityaṁ bhāgavata sevayā [SB 1.2.18], daily... So we are making so much effort. We are building nice building. So you come and hear Bhāgavatam, discuss Bhāgavatam. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise, if you want to go to hell... Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. If you simply associate with the debauches, yoṣitāṁ saṇgam... Yoṣitām saṅgi-saṅgam. Those who are too much fond of woman, they are called yoṣit-saṅgī. They are called yoṣita-saṅg... So not only to become... It is condemned, too much being attached to woman. If one is too much attached to woman, if you make association with him, then you are also condemned. Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want to be relieved from these anarthas, unwanted things, to become clean, sattva, yes... Sattva-śuddhi. It is called sattva-śuddhi. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1]. We do not understand that we are in aśuddha-sattva. Our existence is impure. Therefore, although I am eternal, although I am living entity, nityo śāśvato 'yam, still I have to suffer this consequence: birth, death, old age, and disease. They have no brain even. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. After annihilation of this body the soul is never destroyed. Then why I am suffering this destruction, death? The whole problem is there, but they do not care. They have become so rascals and fools, they do not know what is the problem. The real problem is stop your repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. They don't care, just like animals. The animals, they do not care. But the human form, if they do not care like that, they are animals.

*So this is civilization, how one should be conscious about his self, why he is put into this tribulation. 'Ke āmi' 'kene āmāya jape tāpa*-traya'. These questions should be there. Then answers are there. Then our life is successful. That is perfection of civilization, not this nonsense civilization-keep everyone in darkness and eat, drink, be merry and enjoy and go to hell like cats and dogs. This is not civilization.

Thank you very much. (end)



760416SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.12.5

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Bombay, April 16, 1976



Pradyumna: "The brahmacārī should go out morning and evening for collecting alms. All the collections should be offered to the spiritual master. The brahmacārī is supposed to eat only if he is ordered to take foodstuffs by the spiritual master; otherwise, without being so ordered by the spiritual master, he may sometimes have to observe fasting."



Prabhupāda:



sāyaṁ prātaś cared bhaikṣyaṁ

gurave tan nivedayet

bhuñjīta yady anujñāto

no ced upavaset kvacit

[SB 7.12.5]



*Very strict life. The brahmacārī should go out of the āśrama for begging alms: "Mother, we are coming from such and such temple or āśrama. Give us some alms." So every home, gṛhastha, they will give some little attar. It doesn't matter he gives so much. A little, that is nice. Little attar or little rice or little dahl, little fruits, or little vegetable*-everyone can contribute. And the brahmacārī should go to neighboring householders' place to take something from him. This collection is not for his personal sense gratification. This collection is made from these persons to offer to the Deity. Offer. They are simply eating. Gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām, mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛṇāṁ gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. The householders especially, they have become very cripple-minded. In the śāstra it is said that sannyāsīs, brahmacārīs, they are supposed to be maintained by the gṛhastha as their children. As they are maintaining their own children-there is no disgust-similarly, if a brahmacārī or a gṛhastha comes..., brahmacārī or sannyāsī, so he should not be refused. Give something. If you give little rice, that is also good, but don't refuse. This is Vedic system. Bhaikṣyam. When this is stopped, that is called durbhikṣa. When this alms collection is impossible, that is called durbhikṣa. Even brahmacārī and sannyāsīs cannot get any alms. That is the period of durbhikṣa.



*So in the Kali-yuga there is durbhikṣa. Nobody can give even little rice. That is called durbhikṣa. Anāvṛṣṭya durbhikṣa kara-pīḍitāḥ [SB 12.2.9]. People in this age will be harassed by three things. One thing is anāvṛṣṭi. There will be scarcity of rainfall or no rainfall. When I first went to Hyderabad they said that for three, four years there was no rain. Is it not? But since Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is being chanted, there is rainfall. So they do not know the secret of rainfall. Yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. If you perform yajña, then there will be cloud. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ [Bg. 3.14]. This prescription is there. As soon as you stop performing yajña*-you take pleasure in sporting, no yajña... Now big, big cities, they have got big, big Olympian sporting, but no yajña performance. So why there shall not be scarcity of rain? And as soon as there is scarcity of rain, there is scarcity of food grains. And as soon as there is scarcity of food grain, so many so-called associations will come out, "Give us grain. We have to feed such and such person, such and such village." So it is not going to the village. It is collected, and they use at their own. And government also raise tax. There will be constant durbhikṣa. So to stop durbhikṣa, government will tax the people. These are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Anāvṛṣṭi durbhikṣa kara-pīditāḥ, acchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam [SB 12.2.9]. In this Kali-yuga people will be very, very much harassed. First of all there is scarcity of rain, then scarcity of food grain, and then taxation by the government. These things we are expecting. It is already begun.

*So durbhikṣa means these brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, they should go to every householder's house and take some alms. When this is refused, that means we are calling durbhikṣa, scarcity of food grain. It should be given. That is... A small collection, it is going to the temple for offering prasādam to the Lord and the prasādam to the Vaiṣṇavas, brāhmaṇas. Therefore something must be given. If we open this guru*-kula as we are contemplating, the students should be trained up to go house to house and take little alms. It doesn't matter one has to give one kilogram. No. Whatever you can, you must give. This is the system all over India still. So here it is said that sāyaṁ prātaś cared bhaikṣyam. Twice in a day the brahmacārīs should be trained up to collect alms: in the morning, in the evening. And bhaikṣyam, and gurave tan nivedayet. And whatever collection is there, it should be offered to the guru. Not that something kept for my own purpose. No. Everything should be offered, whatever you collect. You cannot keep because everything in the gurukula or in the temple, it is for the interest of the guru. In the beginning it was said, vasan dānto guror hitam. Everything, all collection, either in cash or kind, that is for the benefit of guru, not the personal benefit. No. Therefore only the gṛha, I mean to say, sannyāsīs and the brahmacārīs, they can beg. They can collect, not others. That is prohibited. Sāyaṁ prātaś cared bhaikṣyam gurave tan nivedayet.

*Now, as soon as you bring the collection before the guru... It was meant for the guru, so it is guru's property. It is not your property. "Then what I shall do? Everything is given to guru. Then what shall I do?" That is said: bhuñjīta yady anujñātaḥ. Now, these things will be prepared. The brahmacārī will collect dahl, rice, attar, and everything. It will be prepared, offered to the Deity. That's a fact. But if by mistake guru forgets to call a particular disciple-"My dear son, please come, take your prasādam"*-then he should not take prasādam. "Guru has forgotten, so I shall not go and take, myself, the foodstuff. I shall fast." This is brahmacārī. Here it is said, bhuñjīta yady anujñāto. Everything is there, prasādam is ready, but you can eat if you are ordered by the spiritual master. This is called tapasya. Not that "Guru is not here and so much foodstuff... Let me eat sumptuously and sleep twenty-four hours." This is not brahmacārī. We should be very careful. Without order of guru... Of course, our students are trained up. They ask permission. But here it is said that he should not ask permission even. If guru calls him, then he can take; otherwise guru has forgotten to call him somehow or other, so he should starve, or he should fast on that day.

So this is discipline and hardship, voluntary hardship. The brahmacārī may come from the royal house... Just like our Kṛṣṇa is actually son of Vasudeva, and He was brahmacārī. And when Sudāmā Vipra... Kṛṣṇa was supposed to be kṣatriya and Sudāmā Vipra was brāhmaṇa, so brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas are especially meant for going to the gurukula and live very strictly according to the principle of gurukula. So Kṛṣṇa and Sudāmā Vipra went to collect dry fuel from the woods. When Sudāmā Vipra came to Kṛṣṇa's house, He reminded, "My dear Sudāmā, do you remember that day that both of us, we went to the forest and there was cyclone and rain, we could not come out?" So that means so much painstaking for the matter of guru. One cannot refuse, that "I am coming from very rich family. Why should you ask me to go to collect some... I can purchase it. I have money." No. If you have to... Here it is said that brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror hitam, ācaran dāsavan nīcaḥ. Even if you are coming from the royal family, even if you are coming from the very respectable brāhmaṇa family, when you are under the control of guru you should act like servant. And what kind of servant? Menial servant, nīca. Not that "I am very rich man's son. You are asking me to do this? No, I cannot do it." No. This is called tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13].

*So it is very difficult at the present moment to introduce all these principles because the days are different. If we become very strict, so then... Ordinarily they are not coming. There is no such strict principle, and we are constructing very nice palatial building with attached bathroom and everything complete. Still, people are not coming. This is different days. So it is very difficult to introduce the original way of brahmacarya, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, and gṛhastha. Everything has topsy*-turvied. But there is only one way. That is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "Although this age is full of faults..." Kalau doṣa-nidhe rājan. The Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "My dear King, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, I have described so many faults of this age, and you must be perplexed. It is just like the ocean of faults. But there is one benefit. That is specially for this age." What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet: [SB 12.3.51] "If simply this system is introduced, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra..." Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. This Hare Kṛṣṇa... Sometimes they come to fight with us that "Why you say 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'? Why you do not say 'Hare Rāma'?" Perhaps you have got experience. But śāstra says, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. It does not mean that we do not accept Rāma as the Supreme Per... That does not mean. Śāstra said, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. And it is said in the śāstra that if you chant Viṣṇu-sahasra-nāma, after chanting thousand times Viṣṇu's name, it is equal to one Rāma nāma. And after chanting thrice Rāma nāma, it is equal to one Kṛṣṇa nāma. This is said in the śāstra. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa... Of course, in some Purāṇas the beginning is Hare Rāma, but in many Purāṇas it is Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have no objection. Either you begin with Hare Rāma or Hare Kṛṣṇa, we have no objection. But the śāstra says, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. The Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference, but why in the śāstra it is said, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya? So Hare Kṛṣṇa is quite to the rulings of the śāstra. There is no discrepancies, although we have no objection. Either you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Hare Rāma.

*So these things as far as possible we shall introduce, but our main principle is chant. If the brahmacārīs are trained up to rise early in the morning and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, attend maṅgala-ārati, then go to the sea for taking bath and again come and again attend vaidika school... And Veda*-Vyāsa... So Veda-Vyāsa means to study Kṛṣṇa literature. Because nowadays it is not possible that the students, especially foreign students, they will be very much inclined to read from Sāma-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Ṛg-Veda, Atharva-Veda, or pronounce the Upaniṣad, Brahma-sūtra. The time is changed. As far as possible... But there is essence of all these Vedic literature. Bhāṣyāyāṁ brahma-sūtrāṇāṁ vedārtha-paribṛṁhitam. This Bhāgavata, this is the essence of Brahma-sūtra. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam [SB 1.1.3]. So we are contemplating to start this brahmacārī-āśrama, so these things should be followed, that the brahmacārī... Sāyaṁ prātaḥ. It is begun here, sāyaṁ prātar upāsitā guru-agny-arka-surottamān. This should be practiced. Surottamān. Especially the Deity. So these are the principles to be followed, that a brahmacārī should always remain dedicated to the guru. Whatever collection he makes, he should offer to the spiritual master, and spiritual master will ask him, "My dear such and such, my dear son, please come and take your prasādam." If he forgets, then we should not go personally. And we should wait or we shall fast. These are the some of the rules and regulation as far as possible. But if we follow the principles of Bhāgavatam, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. If we... (end)



760417SB.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.12.6

-

Bombay, April 17, 1976



Pradyumna: "Brahmacārīs should be very polite and well... The Brahmacārī should be quite well behaved and gentle in nature. He should not eat or collect more than necessary. He must always be active and expert, fully believing in the instructions of the spiritual master and the śāstra. In this way, fully controlled over the senses, behave with women as much as necessary, as well as persons who are controlled by women, should be associated with only as much as necessary."



Prabhupāda:



*suśīlo mita*-bhug dakṣaḥ

śraddadhāno jitendriyaḥ

*yāvad*-arthaṁ vyavaharet

*strīṣu strī*-nirjiteṣu ca

[SB 7.12.6]



*So now, actually behavior, the first thing is suśīla, very well behaved, gentle. Śīla means behavior, and su means very good. Suśīlo mita*-bhuk. This can be attained only when one practices eating whatever is absolutely necessary, not eating more. This is also enjoined by Rūpa Gosvāmī: atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ [No I 2]. Atyāhāra, eating more than necessary, is condemned everywhere. Spiritual life means reducing eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That is spiritual life. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Rūpa Gosvāmī and other six Gosvāmīs, they conquered over these things, nidrā-āhāra. So a brahmacārī should not eat anything except prasādam, that also when he is called by the spiritual master, "You can come and eat." This we have discussed.



*So mita-bhuk. We shall be very, very cautious about eating. And dakṣaḥ. Dakṣaḥ means active, not lazy, sleeping. This is not good. Nidrāhāra-vihāra. Everyone has to conquer over sleeping, so that is called dakṣaḥ. And dakṣaḥ means expert. Whatever business is entrusted to him, he does it very nicely, dakṣa. Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he had no interest in material things. His father's estate was very big, and he was not interested. But at a time when there was a political situation, he tackled it very nicely. This is the example of dakṣa. There was some political controversy between Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī's uncle, father uncle, and the government minister. So the minister, in order to take advantage, he came to arrest Raghunātha Gosvāmī's father and uncle, and they fled away from the house. So the minister arrested Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, the son, because if he was chastised, he'll disclose the secret, where his father and uncle has fled. And so Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī*-it is a long story-tackled the situation so nicely that there was peace between the minister and his father and uncle, and the misunderstanding was settled up. So this is called dakṣa. Not that because he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and Vaiṣṇava, he is unable to do anything of this material world. No. One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is conscious of everything and he knows how to deal with them. That is called dakṣa. Not that "Because I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious I have no knowledge in other things." No. Every... You must have, if not complete, to know something of everything. That is intelligence, to know something of everything and to know everything of something. That is wanted. You may be expert, a devotee. You know everything of devotional service, but you should not be callous. You know something of everything. That is called dakṣa.

*Dakṣa śraddadhānaḥ: faithful. Faithful to whom? To the spiritual master. Whatever he says, the brahmacārī should take it: "Yes, it is my life and soul." That is the explanation given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He is explaining with reference to the verse vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru*-nandana [Bg. 2.41]. He very nicely explains. You have perhaps read it, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's... Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has taught very, very nicely about guru. Therefore he has written in Gurvaṣṭaka, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. He is example, practical example of guru-bhakti, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He accepted his guru, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. So he said that "I am not interested for my salvation or going back to Godhead. I am not interested." Interested means it may come; it may not come. "That I don't mind. But I am interested only with the words of my guru." Viśvanātha Cakravartī said. "That is my life. Whether I will be successful or not successful, it doesn't matter. I must take the words of my Guru Mahārāja as my life and soul."

Actually, that is the secret of success. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau.

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante...

[ŚU 6.23]



*So that is the secret of success, śraddadhāna, to accept the words of guru very, very faithfully. Śraddha. This is brahmacārī's... And jitendriya, self-controlled. That is the brahmacārī. He is not agitated by the senses. The whole practice is to control the senses. That is Vedic civilization. I have several times explained that senses cannot be let loose. Senses must be controlled. That is called swami or gosvāmī. Swami does not mean that "I am the swami, husband of my wife, and I can use her to my best capacity." No. Swami means the master of the senses. That is called swami or gosvāmī. Go means senses, and svāmī... Everyone in this material world is controlled by the senses. That is material world. We cannot control our senses. The tongue is dry and dictating, "Take a cigarette, take a cigarette," and immediately I begin to smoke. That means I am dictated by the tongue. Then tongue, then belly. The belly is filled up, and still, there is some nice food stuff-"All right, let me eat." Control, cannot control. And then genital. That, we know very well, we cannot control. This straight line: tongue, belly, and the genitals. Therefore one should control the tongue first. That is spiritual life, beginning, controlling the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. The controlling of the senses begins from the tongue. If you allow the tongue to eat anything in the restaurant or anywhere, then you cannot become the jitendriya. And if you can control the tongue-"My dear tongue, I shall not give you any food which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa prasādam"-then the tongue is controlled. And kṛṣṇa-prasādam means patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. If you want to offer Kṛṣṇa something, we must know what Kṛṣṇa wants to eat. Just like if you call a friend, you ask him, "My dear friend, what do you like to eat?" Then it is etiquette. And that is going on. Similarly, you have invited Kṛṣṇa here. He has come. Don't think He has not come. He is here, sākṣād vrajendra-nandana-hari. The atheist may say, "Oh, these rascals are worshiping a stone," but that is not the fact. We are not spending so much energy and money for installing a stone. Stone is already there. Therefore it is forbidden, arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. If you think the Deity as śilā, means stone, and guruṣu nara-matiḥ, if you think guru as ordinary human being, vaisnave jati-buddhi, and if you think a Vaiṣṇava, "He is American Vaiṣṇava. He is Indian Vaiṣṇava," jāti-buddhi nārakī*-you become nārakī immediately. These are the descriptions.



So jitendriya. A brahmacārī means jitendriya. Śamena damena vā. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasā. Brahmacārī life means tapasya.

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena damena vā

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*This is life. Not that extravagant life is life. That is the present position of India, that we have lost our own culture. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsī*-this is compulsory. Every child should be trained up as brahmacārī. Then, when he is completely trained up, if he still likes to get into married life or householder life, which is a concession for sex life... It is not required. According to Vedic civilization it is not required. You'll find, therefore, many naiṣṭika-brahmacārīs. Naiṣṭika means never any connection with woman. That is called naiṣṭika-brahmacārī. And upakurvaṇa-brahmacārīs. Upakurvaṇa-brahmacārī means he is married, but not for enjoying. He is married and to beget nice children under the order of his spiritual master. He is also brahmacārī. If a gṛhastha abides by the order of a guru, he is also brahmacārī. So here it is said jitendriya. Suśīlaḥ mita-bhug dakṣaḥ śraddadhāno jitendriyaḥ. Senses should not be used extravagantly. The modern civilization is that if you can use your senses more and more, then you are civilized. Then you are enjoyer. So Vedic civilization is different. Their aim is different. The whole scheme is controlling the senses, especially sex, because if we become too much addicted to sex life, then our life is spoiled. This is this.



*Therefore next line, it is said, yāvad*-arthaṁ vyavaharet strīṣu. With woman you should be very, very cautious and careful, as much as required, not free mingling. No. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is always a separation between woman and men. Here in India we find that whenever there is some meeting, the woman are sitting separately; *men are sitting separately. This is required. Not only that, you cannot talk even with woman unnecessarily, even with your wife. This is restriction. Therefore it is said, yāvad*-arthaṁ vyavaharet: "as much as it is required." Don't talk unnecessarily, "Phish, phish, phish." That is very dangerous. Dangerous means in spiritual life. Yāvad-artham. Even with your mother, with your daughter, with your sister, you cannot sit in a solitary place and talk. This is restricted. What to speak of others, even with your mother.

mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā

nāviviktāsane vaset

*balavān indriya*-grāmo

vidvāṁsam api karṣati

[SB 9.19.17]



*So according to Vedic civilization there is very, very strict stricture to mix with women. And in our childhood, we have seen in Calcutta that those who are aristocratic family, there are two section of the house, male section and female section. During daytime even the husband cannot meet wife. That is their restriction, even the husband. There was no chance because the women were in different house and men in a different house. So so many restriction. So here it is said, yāvad*-arthaṁ vyavaharet strīṣu... (end)





720307SB.CAL



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7th Canto

-

Calcutta, March 7, 1972



Prabhupāda: We are talking of Prahlāda Mahārāja's prayer. He was thinking himself unfit for offering prayers to the Lord. But still, because he was requested by the great demigods headed by Lord Brahmā and others, he thought that material qualification, namely high parentage, riches, beauty, bodily strength, yogic power, all of them are not qualification for becoming a devotee or qualified to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*manye dhanābhijana*-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

*tejaḥ*-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ



These things I have already explained. Dhana means riches; abhijana means aristocratic family; bala means bodily strength; buddhi, intelligence; *pauruṣa, power in endeavor, industrious. These are material qualification. And the yoga, aṣṭa*-siddhi-yoga, that is also material. By exercising the body to concentrate the mind, that is also material. Because mind is material, subtle form of matter. It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. Mind, intelligence, ego, ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. So they are subtle form of matter. So yogic exercise means to control the mind, dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā. In order to make the mind controlled and fully fixed up on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is required in yoga meditation. Dhyānāvasthita, one remains in meditation. What for? Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, just in order to make the mind completely, completely absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti. By concentrating the mind upon Kṛṣṇa, generally Lord Viṣṇu, dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. They are also material endeavor. They are not spiritual. Because spiritual life begins when one understands fully that he is not this body. That is the beginning of instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. When Kṛṣṇa saw that Arjuna was talking on the platform of bodily concept of life, He was not talking seriously. Arjuna could understand that, that Kṛṣṇa was just talking as friend, not very seriously. Therefore, he submitted himself as a student. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. So... And He chastised him, that "You have no spiritual knowledge, still you are talking just like a great scholar." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase [Bg. 2.11]. "You are talking just like a very learned man." That means one who... [break]



*...that is animal life. There is no beginning of spiritual life. Spiritual life begins when one understands that he is not this body. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ, brahma-bhūtḥ. So long one identifies with the body, he is jīva-bhūtaḥ. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. And when one realizes ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am Brahman..." But unfortunately Māyāvādī philosophers, they take it ahaṁ brahmāsmi means "I am the Supreme Brahman." No. Brahmāsmi means "I am spirit soul." Spirit soul is Brahman, and the Supreme Brahman is different. Supreme Brahman, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12], that is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu-tattva. So unfortunately these Māyāvādī philosophers, they accept brahmāsmi means "I am the Supreme." We are not the Supreme. We are subordinate. So long this knowledge lacks, one is not completely in knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Amongst the persons who are realized themselves as Brahman, as spirit soul, they also, after trying many, many births, that means they are not muktas, that is still baddha, conditioned. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. Not ordinary person; *those who are wise. Wise means those who are in the spiritual platform to understand his position as spirit soul, not this body, such persons, after many, many births surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is the ultimate knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ [Bg. 7.19]*-to make it clear more-vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme. He is everything.



*So yoga, yoga, this bodily practice, that if I am not body, then what shall I get by bodily exercise? Bodily exercises can help me little, but that is not spiritual platform. The (indistinct), kuṇḍalinī, these are to the bodily concept of life. Actually, to tell the truth, those who are too much bodily absorbed, that "I am this body," for them this yoga practice is recommended. Not for the intelligent man. Because one who identifies himself with this body, he is not very intelligent. But because such persons are not very intelligent, for them this bodily exercise of yoga, aṣṭāṅga*-yoga, is recommended. Not for the intelligent person. Intelligent person, they take immediately to the devotional service, immediate. Just like Kṛṣṇa..., Lord Caitanya begins immediately spiritual life, and He instructs Sanātana Gosvāmī, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is spiritual life. You... From the very beginning, you take it for granted that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. I am not this body. Neither I have anything to do in relationship with this body." Because as soon as I identify with my body, then the family relation, the society relation, the national relation, the country relation, so many things in relationship with the body we accept as truth. But that is not truth. As soon as the body finishes, everything finishes. Therefore, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, yoga is also not helpful for approaching the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*Manye dhanābhijana*-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-tejaḥ-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ.



This is plural number, yogāḥ, all these kind including. Nārādhanāya hi bhavanti. They are not qualification for worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Na ārādhanāya hi bhavanti. Nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁsaḥ. Parasya. Parasya puṁsaḥ. Puṁsaḥ means enjoyer. Puruṣa. The Lord is puruṣa, the male. The Lord, the Supreme Truth, absolute cannot be female. Just like so many others, Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that the Supreme Absolute Truth can be female. No. He can be female, but the real form is puṁsaḥ. Just like Arjuna accepts the Absolute, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ [Bg. 10.12]. The Lord is puruṣa, He is not female. Here also puṁsaḥ. Another meaning of puruṣa means "enjoyer." Just like we have got experience that the male is considered to be the enjoyer and the female is considered to be the enjoyed; although in this material world everyone is under illusion, everyone is thinking that he is the enjoyer or she is the enjoyer. So long we have got this false identification that "I am enjoyer," that is māyā. We are not enjoyer. We are enjoyed. That is real philosophy. Therefore, it is said parasya puṁsaḥ, predominated. We are not predominator. That is liberation.



*Everything is prakṛti. The jīvas, they have been described as prakṛti. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that these material elements-earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence, ego*-they are bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. Prakrti. He is puruṣa. Prakṛti means female. So they are also energy, energy. Just like here, try to understand, the karmīs, unless they have got a wife, they cannot work, they are not very enthusiastic. Therefore, according to the karmīs, when the boy is developed, immediately the parents get him wife for him. Otherwise he will be dull, he cannot work. Energy, śakti. If one has got good wife, then he gets energy to work. Therefore, prakṛti, she is called prakṛti, energy. Similarly, this is a fact. Kṛṣṇa has got also energy, the original puruṣa-Rādhārāṇī, energy, prakṛti. Kṛṣṇa is engladdened in the presence of Rādhārāṇī. That is nature. Similarly, a man, he becomes energized if he has got a good wife or good mother. This is the history of the whole world. Any great man in this world, you will find that behind him he has got a good wife or good mother. Prakṛti, energy. That energizes. In our country how we have seen many persons. Just like Sad Guru Das Bannerjee, (indistinct), they had very good mothers, and they became very great men. Similarly, we saw one Englishman, Lord Wellington, he had a very intelligent wife and he became great man. So this prakṛti is energy. By the energy of one woman, one becomes very great. That is the material arrangement. Not only material, in the spiritual world also the same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa is energized in the presence of Rādhārāṇī, in the presence of Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa is called Madana-mohana and Rādhārāṇī is called Madana-mohana-mohinī. So the law is the same. But here in this material world, everything is perverted. Perverted. Therefore, we do not get the real energy. There is frustration, there is confusion. So we have to come to the real platform. Disease, diseased person... A diseased person, there are nice eatable things, enjoyable things, but he cannot eat, he cannot taste it, diseased person. Liver function is not working; therefore, he cannot taste it.



*So this spiritual life means to come to the original position where everything will be tasty, everything will be tasty. Rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau [Cc. Ādi 1.5]. Then we can understand what is spiritual life, what is spiritual love. So... But the material things cannot help us. That is the statement of..., nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso. Parasya puṁsaḥ. Not this material person-parasya. He is transcendental puruṣa, not puruṣa like us. Today this life I have got a dress of a puruṣa, next life I can get a dress of a female. Because here all are living entities, they are prakṛti. Actually they are prakṛti, but they are falsely dressed as puruṣa. Falsely dressed. Jīva-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho [Bg. 7.5]. They are superior, superior energy, superior prakṛti, but they are not puruṣa. So the Māyāvādī theory that by salvation means he becomes one with the Supreme. One with the Supreme, how it is possible? The Supreme is puruṣa and I am prakṛti. There must be difference between puruṣa and prakṛti. The prakṛti cannot..., a female cannot artificially become a male. That is not possible. And because we are trying artificially to become the supreme male, therefore, that is māyā. That is māyā. Māyā means which is not fact. Mā-yā, it is false. So falsely we are trying to be puruṣa, enjoyer. This whole world is struggling to become puruṣa, enjoyer, everyone. Nation-wide, society-wide, they are trying to be puruṣa.



*So, therefore, these material qualities will not help us to become..., to approach the Supreme Brahman. How? Bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja*-yūtha-pāya. Gaja-yūtha-pāya, the Gajendra, he was in danger. But although it was animal, but by simple devotional service, he satisfied the Supreme Lord and he was saved. And another thing is that we should not think that opposite, as it is said, dhana jana, dhanābhijana-rūpa-tapaḥ-śruta. Now Prahlāda Mahārāja says that material wealth is not sufficient qualification to become a devotee to approach the Lord. Does it mean if we become poor then we can approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead? No. That is also not a qualification. In material sense, this dhana..., dhana, riches, it is relative. A poor man has got, say, ten rupees, he is thinking, "Oh, I am very rich man." And a rich man to our consideration, another man, he has got ten lakhs of rupees, he is thinking, "I am poor man because I have no ten crores of rupees." So it is not the money which makes one rich. Because it is a status of mental concoction. The poor man, he hasn't..., he gets one paise, two paise, he sometimes he gets ten rupees, he thinks, "I am very rich man." And another man, he earns one lakh, two lakhs at a time. So unless he comes to ten crores of rupees, he does not think himself rich man. So which one is rich and which one is poor? It is very difficult to ascertain.



*So the fact is that bhakti does not depend on such poverty or richness. That is to be understood. It is not that the poverty*-stricken man will be a great devotee. No. That is also not a qualification. And it is also not a qualification that a very rich man can become devotee. No. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu suggests... Not the suggestion of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, it is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Sthāne sthitāḥ. You remain in your place, it doesn't matter. In your consideration whether you are rich or poor, it doesn't matter. You remain in your position. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. You simply give your oral reception. What is that oral reception? San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. San-mukharitām: those who are devotees, from their mouth you try to understand the glories of the Lord. This is the first-class qualification. Not that to become rich or poor. Richness or poverty is no hampering. Because spiritual life is so great, so sublime, that is this ahaitukī hata. No material thing can check your spiritual progress. The only qualification you require, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted when he was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, he was prescribing one after another different processes. Karma, jñāna, yoga, dhyanavista, bhakti, so many things, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was denying one after another, eho bāhya āge kaha, "This is not. This is external." He began from the varṇāśrama-dharma, because that is the beginning of civilization.



varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



*Because unless one comes to the institute of varṇāśrama-dharma-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, gṛhastha*-they are not considered as civilized. So he began from this, Rāmānanda Rāya. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said eho bāhya āge kaha, "This is external. If you know something more, you can explain." Then he recommended karma-tyāga. That is also Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, "It is external." In this way, when Rāmānanda quoted one verse from Brahmā's prayer in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Jñāne prayāsam. Brahmā recommended that one should not endeavor by his individual effort to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One's business should be that he may not change his position. Means he may remain a gṛhastha, he may remain a brāhmaṇa or śūdra or a sannyāsī, it doesn't matter. In whatever position he is, he is all right. The only business is that you should not be proud of mental speculation, jñāna-tyāga. You have to give up this practice of mental speculation, but you try to understand the Supreme Lord by hearing from a realized soul. San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Then the result will be gradually, although the Supreme Lord is never conquerable, still He will be conquered. Ajito 'py jito 'py asi. Ajita, nobody can conquer. But simply by hearing about Him, you go on hearing, hearing about Him, one day you will find that the Supreme Lord has been conquered by you, you have become victorious. That conquered means you have understood the whole science of Kṛṣṇa, whole special science. This is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement follows this principle. We are trying to give opportunity, every man, to hear about Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of practicing in the beginning. If you can practice, it is all right. But there is no need. Simply you hear about Kṛṣṇa. The Bhagavad-gītā... To hear about Kṛṣṇa means the Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, you can hear. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you can hear. And you remain in your position. We don't want to disturb your position. Whatever you are, you remain. But you hear about Kṛṣṇa. Then gradually Kṛṣṇa will be conquered by you. Ajita Allah(?) Kṛṣṇa.



So these things, people think that these riches or yogic power or bodily strength or influence, these are qualification. They are not actually qualification, neither they are disqualification if provided. But the difficulty is, one who is rich, one who is very powerful, one who is very influential, he thinks, "What shall I do by hearing about Kṛṣṇa? I have got everything, I am so powerful, I am so rich." That is the disqualification. If he simply agrees to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right. We, according to Gosvāmīs, we don't say that riches, wealth, is a disqualification. But it must be engaged in the service of the Lord. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta vairāgyam ucyate. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya, he was very rich man, he was governor, but he always engaged himself in Kṛṣṇa's service. He was one of the most confidential servants and devotee of Lord Caitanya. So the conclusion is that richness or aristocracy, they are not qualification and they are not disqualification also, provided we agree to hear about Kṛṣṇa from the right source. This is the conclusion.



*Then he says, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Viprād, brāhmaṇa, dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa, a brāhmaṇa not by birth but with quality. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. That is śāstra. Śāstra means, Lord Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. A brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya or a vaiśya or a śūdra or a brahmacārī or a gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsī, they are divided according to the quality. According to the quality. Never says janma. Quality. So here also it is said viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād. Dvi means double, twice, and ṣaḍ means six, then means twelve. Twelve kinds of qualities a brāhmaṇa meets. The twelve kinds of qualities are also mentioned here. (reads from Śrīdhara Swami commentary:) Evaṁ bhaktyeva kevalaya hari (indistinct) sambhavati tukta idaniṁ bhaktiṁ vinā na kiñcit toṣa (indistinct) dviṣaṭ (indistinct) guṇa (indistinct) variṣṭhaṁ manye. Even a brāhmaṇa, unless one is qualified by the twelve prescribed qualities in the śāstra, he cannot be accept..., he cannot be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Śrīdhara Swami says that even though one is qualified with all those good qualities which indicates that one is brāhmaṇa... Prahlāda Mahārāja also says that, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād. Even though he is qualified, but he is not a devotee. Generally, those who are very highly qualified brāhmaṇa, they are very proud, and they do not become a devotee, generally. "Oh, devotion, this is for poor man. This is for those who are not highly educated, for them. They are chanting, dancing." They criticize like that. But actually that is not the fact. Jīva Gosvāmī was the most learned scholar. Rūpa Gosvāmī was most learned scholar. All the... Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself, the most learned scholars. His one description of the Bhāgavata śloka. What is that śloka? Ātmārāmāś ca munayo. He explained in sixty-four ways to Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was very proud of his knowledge. He was a great scholar, Bṛhaspati. He is considered to be incarnation of Bṛhaspati, the learned scholar of heaven. And still, when he argued with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu about Vedānta-sūtra, he was defeated. He was defeated and then he became His disciple. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu had talks with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, another Māyāvādī sannyāsī scholar. So He also explained Vedānta-sūtra.



*So it is not that this devotional line, disciplic succession, they are necessarily very poor in knowledge. They are full in knowledge. One many not be personally very learned, but because we follow the disciplic succession, the conclusion given by the learned scholars like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī, therefore, we follow the conclusion, therefore we are also learned. Because we do not follow any other path, we follow mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], we follow Jīva Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. Therefore, we are called Rūpānuga Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava, who are followers strictly. My Guru Mahārāja is described, rūpānuga*-viruddha-apasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe. Rūpānuga-viruddha. There are certain principles given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Just like Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, he is giving the definition of bhakti.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*He is giving. This is bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ, without any material desires. Material desires, bhakti, that is not śuddha*-bhakti. So these are the direction of the Gosvāmīs. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that ei chay gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa, "I am servant of such person who follows strictly the principles of Gosvāmīs.



*So the Gosvāmīs have given their principles, especially for general public in the Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. We have translated this book into Nectar of Devotion. So our business is everything is there, we have to follow. And my Guru Mahārāja is described as rūpānuga-viruddha-apasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe. He was strictly to follow the rūpānuga principle. Rūpānuga principle, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī directs in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, "You somehow or other engage people in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet, sarve vidhi-niṣedha syur etayor eva kiṅkara. Just like in Europe and America, some of our friends criticize that "Swami Mahārāja, he is not doing this, not doing that." We are doing everything, but our main business is just to induce them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the secret. You have to induce them. Then even there is some discrepancies in the rules and regulation, it does not matter. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, sarve vidhi-niṣedha syur etayor eva kiṅkara. First of all, we must be Kṛṣṇa conscious somehow or other. We must find out. It can be changed according to country, climate, and circumstances. But the result, we have to see by the result whether one has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted. That is wanted. Then we say that this is the rule: you don't do this, we don't do this. In the beginning we have many difficulties. Because their behavior, their culture, everything just opposite. Just opposite. How you can expect everything to the right point? That is not possible. So we have to find out means how he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is my first business. So that is the secret.



So Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī followed strictly the Rūpa Gosvāmī. Just like Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī introduced that a sannyāsī should go for begging alms in motorcar. In motorcar. They should live in palatial buildings. Now if in this age if we follow that rūpānuga... Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī used to live underneath a tree, and if we say now we shall also imitate..., just like there are many bābājīs in Vṛndāvana, they are imitating, a small loincloth but doing all nonsense. So imitation is not required. Real thing is required. How, what is the purpose of Gosvāmī? They say that yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe. Somehow or other first of all engage him in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my Guru Mahārāja's gift. He first of all started that there is no need of going to Vṛndāvana and imitate the Gosvāmīs. Live in big, big cities, in big, big palatial houses, but preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People may understand. Give chance to the people how they will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He opened many centers. Similarly, in big, big cities. So we are doing that. And because we are following strictly the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī, rūpānuga, therefore it is somehow or other coming out very successful. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be pushed according to the rūpānuga principle.



*So here it is said, manye... Here it is said, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends. Śvapacam, śva means dog. Dog..., pacati, those who eat dog's flesh, they are considered very low born. There are different kinds of flesh eaters. In the Āyurveda-śāstra, they are called, those who are eating the flesh of dog, they are called śvapaca. Those who are eating the flesh of cows, they are go-kaga(?), māṁsaga(?), these are so many. But in the Manu-saṁhitā it is said that if one eats the flesh of cow, he is called go-kaga(?), if one eats the flesh of dog, he is called śvapaca, if one eats the flesh of this..., he is given description. But one who eats fish, he eats all the fleshes. matsaga-sarva-māṁsaga(?). If anyone eats fish, he eats all kinds of fleshes.



Devotee (1): Fish?



*Prabhupāda: Fish, yes. Fish is abominable according to Manu*-saṁhitā. matsaga-sarva-māṁsaga, tasmāt matsa vivarjet(?). Therefore, even you can eat the flesh of cow, but don't eat fish. That is the stricture in the Manu-saṁhitā. Because if you are eating dog's flesh, then you are sinful in the matter of dog's flesh only. But if you eat fish, then you become sinful of eating all kinds of flesh. Matsaga-sarva-māṁsaga(?). These are the strictures. Of course, we have nothing to do with these dog-eaters or fish-eaters or cow-eaters. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We are interested in eating Kṛṣṇa's prasāda. If Kṛṣṇa says that "Give Me dog or give Me cow flesh," we shall give and eat. But not before that. So we have no quarrel with these fish-eaters or cow-eaters. We are concerned that Kṛṣṇa says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If He likes, He can eat everything. Because when Yaśodā-mayī suspected that Kṛṣṇa has eaten earth and the boys, His playmates, were accusing Him, "Mother Yaśodā, your son has eaten earth." And Kṛṣṇa denied, "No, mother, I have not eaten." She did not believe. "All right, open Your mouth, I want to see." So when Kṛṣṇa opened, she saw all the universes within. So, therefore, what is the question of this flesh or that flesh? Everything is there. Kṛṣṇa, because He is all powerful, if He likes He can... But He does not, He does not. So He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa is giving. Kṛṣṇa is all powerful, He can do everything. He has no restriction. If He is restricted, then He is not God. He can do anything, but He does not do so because He is teaching us. You cannot say that Kṛṣṇa can eat this, therefore we can give everything. No. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. You can give vegetable, flowers, grains, milk, and we take that. So we have no quarrel with that.



*Śvapaca. Śvapaca means the dog*-eaters. The dog-eaters, they are considered to be the most abominable. The dog-eaters are there still. We have received report from our Hong Kong center that there is regular dog-eaters, and I am going there in Hong Kong. (laughter) But we are not concerned with the dog-eaters. But here Prahlāda Mahārāja says... Dog-eaters were there (indistinct) millions of years ago. All kinds of people are there always. It is not that now somebody has developed. No. Everything is perpetually existing. We don't believe in Darwin's theory, evolution. Everything is... But sometimes the dog-eaters are very less, and sometimes the dog-eaters are very great. Sometimes the cow-eaters are very great, and sometimes... But everything is there. First-class, second-class, third-class men, asura and devata, they are all existing, always existing. Otherwise how Prahlāda Mahārāja mentions śvapacaṁ variṣṭham? Śvapaca means dog-eaters, that during his time, millions and millions of years ago, there were dog-eaters. Otherwise how he says? So all classes of men are existing always, and everyone has got chance to become a devotee. Otherwise how Prahlāda Mahārāja says śvapacaṁ variṣṭham? The dog-eater is better than the brāhmaṇa with twelve qualifications. Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād. Vipra means real vipra, qualified, not the so-called birthright vipra. But he said dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād, a brāhmaṇa who is actually qualified with the twelve guṇas. These guṇas are mentioned here, Śrīdhara Swami. He says, (reading from commentary:) dharmasya sattvaṁ ca damas (indistinct) titikṣa anasūya yajñasya danaṁ ca dhṛti sūtaṁ ca vratāni dvādaśa brāhmaṇas. He is quoting from śāstra, this is brahminical twelve qualifications. What is that? He must be religious; he must be truthful; he must be controlling the senses; he must be controlling the mind; he should not be envious; he must be very intelligent; he must be very tolerant, titikṣa; *anasūya*-he is not envious; yajñasya, he must engage himself always in sacrificing, yajñasya; *danaṁ ca*-he must be charitable; and dhṛti, he must be very powerful memory he must have; and then śrutasya, very learned scholar; sūtaṁ ca, vratāni he must be endowed with vows, "I must do it," vratāni; dvādaśa brāhmaṇa. These are the twelve qualities of brāhmaṇa.



*So here Prahlāda Mahārāja says viprād dvi-ṣaḍ*-guṇa-yutād: that brāhmaṇa who is qualified with these twelve kinds of high qualities, this is guṇa-yutād. But if he is not a devotee, aravinda-nābha-vimukhāt, he does not like to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead as worshipable, better than this kind of brāhmaṇa is a śvapaca Vaiṣṇava. Why? The reason is given there that pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham manye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ. This śvapaca, if he becomes a devotee, he is qualified to deliver his whole family. But not the brāhmaṇa who is so proud, he cannot deliver himself, what to speak of his family, because he is proud with these qualification. But a Vaiṣṇava... Just like it was in case of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja did not ask anything for his personal benefit, but he was so kind, he asked some benediction from the Lord for his father. This is Vaiṣṇava. He was so much tortured by his father, but still he remembered that "After all, he is my father. So I pray something for my father." He did not ask anything for himself. He prayed at last, "My dear Lord, my father was a great offender at Your lotus feet. If You will kindly excuse him." So Nṛsiṁhadeva said, "My dear Prahlāda, not only your father, your father's father, his father, his father, all are delivered because you are in the family." So that is the quality of a devotee. He can deliver all the members of the family, sa kulam. Sa kulam means with all the members. Prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ. And the proud brāhmaṇa who is qualified with all these qualities, he cannot deliver himself. But a śvapaca, a dog-eater, if he is a devotee, he can deliver all his family. These are the Vaiṣṇava qualifications. So if one becomes Vaiṣṇava in a family, he is giving the best service to the family. Unfortunately, if somebody comes within our society, the father, mother become disturbed, "Oh, he is going to be a Vaiṣṇava. Let him become a Naxalite, that's all right. But why he should become a Vaiṣṇava?" Immediately disturbed. We have got experience, you see. But he does not know that any boy who becomes a Vaiṣṇava, who is strictly following the Vaiṣṇava principles, he is doing the..., he is giving the best service to his family. Here Prahlāda Mahārāja says, and it is confirmed by Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva.



*So these are the advantage of become Kṛṣṇa conscious and Vaiṣṇava. So, therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended that we may remain in different position of social and other status of life, but if we give our submissive oral reception to the teachings of Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa*-kathā, Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then our life is successful. Thank you very much. [break]



*Devotee (1): ...come to the varṇāśrama*-dharma system that he cannot be considered civilized. But Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra."



*Prabhupāda: But that is Lord Caitanya. Ordinary person is not Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is liberated. He is talking from the liberated platform. But not everyone is on the standard of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore, first of all, one has to come to the standard of varṇāśrama*-dharma. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu's position can be obtained by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu by this saṅkīrtana movement. He is giving that. That means we have to come to that position when we don't identify with this body. This varṇāśrama-dharma is identification with this body: "I am a brāhmaṇa." "I am a brāhmaṇa," what does it mean? This is bodily qualification, but I have got little more knowledge than others. I know what is Brahman. But still, I am not a Vaiṣṇava. Unless I become a Vaiṣṇava, I come to the position of a brāhmaṇa and then I engage himself in the Brahman's service, that is Vaiṣṇava. That is required. Simply... But in order to raise oneself to the highest standard of life, these principles of varṇāśrama-dharma should be followed. You cannot become M.A. without becoming a student in the school and college. But if there is any special service... Just like Dr. Rabindranath Tagore, he was given doctor title from the Oxford University. (break-end)





*Śrīmad Bhāgavatam* Canto 10: Lectures





710319LE.BOM

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 10.22.35

-

Bombay, March 19, 1971



*Prabhupāda: There is a verse in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam,



*etāvaj janma*-sāphalyaṁ

dehinām iha dehiṣu

prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā

śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā

[SB 10.22.35]



*Etāvaj janma*-sāphalyam. In order to make our life successful, dehinām iha dehiṣu. There are many embodied souls, 8,400,000 of species of life. Out of that, this civilized form of life, especially those who are followers of Vedic regulations, they are called the Aryans or the advanced civilized persons. So, it is obtained after many, many evolutionary process. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. Labdhvā sudur... Sudurlabhaṁ idam bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. So dehinām iha dehiṣu, of all the embodied souls, this embodied soul, this human form of life is meant for liberation. We are entangled in this chain of repeated birth and death, old age and disease, but we are not yet fed up. We think that, "All right, let us go on like this," but that is not actually advancement of knowledge. That is ignorance. There is a way to stop this repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore in this age, in this life especially, we should try to get out of this entanglement. That is the special function of this human form of life. Dehinām iha dehiṣu. There are many dehī Dehī means one who accepts this material body, he is called dehī In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dehinām iha dehiṣu. So dehī means I am not this body, but I have accepted this body. Just like we accept a kind of dress. Similarly, according to my desire, according to my karma, I have accepted a certain type of body and according to that body, I am subject to different types of pains and pleasures. This is going on. Therefore Bhāgavata says especially in this body it is the duty of everyone, śreya ācaraṇam. There are two words in the Vedic literature-śreya and preya. Preya means... Just like ordinarily everyone is engaged in some sort of duty for sense gratification. Everyone is working very hard to satisfy the senses according to his standard of desire. So that is called preya, immediate benefit. But besides this preya, there is another departmental activities which is śreya. Just like children, they like to play. That is preya. But his guardians are anxious that the child may not be spoiled, he may be educated for his future life. That is śreya. So Bhāgavata says that in this life, we should not be after preya, immediate benefit or immediate object of sense gratification. We should be thoughtful what I am, why I am put into these material conditions of life, and what is the way to get out of it. That is śreya. Śreya ācaraṇam.



*So, people should be engaged, in the human form of life, for activities of ultimate goal of life, and that is Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Being captivated by the external energy, māyā, we have forgotten our interest. We are working for a different interest. That is preya, not for śreya. The śreya is Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. So I do not wish to take much of your time, you are all busy men. And I thank you very much that you have come. And we require your cooperation, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Somebody should dedicate his life for this great movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So these American boys, European boys, and there are some Indians also, they have dedicated their life for this purpose*-to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Similarly, if one cannot dedicate his life, then he should dedicate his money as far as possible. According to our Gosvāmī's program, everyone should sacrifice fifty percent of his income for Kṛṣṇa. And Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī' actually did it. It doesn't matter whether your income is five lakhs per month or five rupees per month. You should sacrifice the major portion of your income to the Supreme. If the government has got right to exact income tax from you, has not Kṛṣṇa the right to exact income tax? He is supplying you so many things. Government, what government is supplying? Kṛṣṇa is supplying you sunlight. Kṛṣṇa is supplying you moonlight. Kṛṣṇa is supplying you air. Kṛṣṇa is supplying you food. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kṛṣṇa is fulfilling all your desires. And don't you like to give Him some tax? (laughter) (aside:) Don't laugh.

*Kṛṣṇa, not only He's supplying, He's also begging. Just like He became a beggar to Bali Mahārāja. Vāmanadeva. Bali Mahārāja conquered the three worlds and the all the demigods became very much perturbed. So Kṛṣṇa as Vāmanadeva went to Bali Mahārāja as a beggar, "Mahārāja, you are very charitable. Will you kindly give Me three feet land?" So Kṛṣṇa, although He is the maintainer of everyone, sometimes He takes the part of a beggar. He's not beggar, but He begs to benefit the, I mean, the charitable. Who is giving in charity, he is benefited. Just like Bali Mahārāja, he gave everything to Vāmanadeva. Sarvātma*-snapanam. There are different devotees. Out of these nine kinds of devotional service,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*So Bali Mahārāja took part, he cultivated ātma*-nivedanam, giving everything to Kṛṣṇa, whatever he had. So, prāṇair arthair. And Kṛṣṇa says, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi dadāsi yat. Everyone has got some disposition to give in charity, everyone. Perhaps you are all businessmen, you have got a separate fund for charity. That is natural inclination for everyone, to give in charity. Kṛṣṇa says, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi dadāsi yat, kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. "If you are inclined to give in charity, better to give it to Me, better give it to Me." So here is a chance, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Someone should dedicate his life, someone should give in charity to his best capacity. If he has no such possibility of dedicating his life or giving in charity, his wealth, money, then prāṇair arthair dhiyā. He can give his intelligence. And ultimately he can give his words also. So this movement, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is very important movement. So, somebody should dedicate his life, somebody should dedicate his wealth, somebody should dedicate his intelligence, and somebody should dedicate his words. So, suppose one cannot dedicate his life or he has no money, he can give us some intelligence that "If you go to such-and-such person, or if you do like this, if you make your plan like this for pushing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness," that is also service. Intelligence. And if he has no money, no intelligence, and cannot dedicate his life, then he can give his words. What is that? That word is, that Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "So I have come to you, sir, to tell you that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Please surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Words, there is no expenditure. But you can say... Or you can say, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." I think it is very easy. There is no expenditure, there is no loss. So, śāstra gives us indication that prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā. So I am so obliged to you that you are trying your best to push this movement, and at the same time I must say that this movement is very, very important. This is the life-giving movement to the human society. That's a fact. It is not a bogus, manufactured, concocted movement. It is authorized. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And we are teaching this philosophy throughout the whole world and actually from all parts of the world we are getting devotees who are completely surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. (end)





*Śrīmad Bhāgavatam* Canto 11: Lectures



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 11.3.21

--

New York, April 13, 1969

690413SB.NY

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 11.3.21

-

New York, April 13, 1969



*(bhajana) (japa) (prema*-dvani for initiation) [break]

Prabhupāda: Who is playing harmonium? Somebody is playing? No?



*Bali*-mardana: Ṛṣi, Ṛṣi Kumāra.



Devotee: Ṛṣi Kumāra.



*Prabhupāda: Begin. (kīrtana, prema*-dhvani) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm?



tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



The whole Vedic instruction is just to deliver all suffering humanity from the threefold miseries of material existence. That is the aim and object of Vedic civilization. That means this human form of life is meant for finishing all kinds of troubles. That should be the effort of human being. Actually, they are doing so. Everyone is trying to minimize the miseries of life and get happiness of life. That is the impetus of all activities. But unfortunately, they do not know how to do it.



*The first thing is that one should very nicely understand the position of material existence. Sanātana Gosvāmī, who approached Lord Caitanya, he presented himself that "My dear Lord, people in general, they speak of me that I am very learned man," grāmya vyavahāre kaha paṇḍita, "I am very learned man. But actually when I think of myself, what kind of learned man I am, I do not know what I am." So this type of advancement of knowledge, simply for material comforts, without knowing about oneself, "What I am?" they're simply useless labor. One should try to understand what he is. That is also the beginning of Vedānta*-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: one should be inquisitive to understand about himself, Brahman, or the Supreme Brahman. That is the real necessity of this human form of life. The animals, they cannot inquire about himself or about the Supreme. But a human being can inquire, that "I want to become happy, but miseries are coming upon me one after another." At least, one should know what are the miseries. The miseries are three kinds of miseries. It is not the question of one religion or another religion. The miserable condition of life is for everyone, either he is Hindu or he is Muslim or Christian or Jew. It doesn't matter. Anyone who has accepted this material body has to undergo the miserable condition of material existence. That is a fact. And what are the miserable condition? There are three types: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Adhyātmika means pertaining to the body, mind. Everyone is experienced that "I'm not feeling today well due to some sickness of my body or some mental disturbance." This is called adhyātmika. And there are other miseries inflicted by other living entities, my enemies, some animal, some mosquito or some bug. There are so many living entities, they are also try to give me some trouble. This is called adhibhautika. And there is another type of misery, which is called adhidaivika. That is natural disturbance-severe cold, severe heat, some famine, some earthquake, some disaster, some hurricanes. There are so many things, natural disturbance. So in either of these three types of miserable condition we are. But those who are foolish, they do not see to it. Under illusion of māyā they think, "Oh, we are very happy." This is called māyā. One is not happy, but he's thinking, "I am happy." And they are trying to become happy in so many other ways.

*But that is not the way of seeking happiness. If we actually want to be happy, then you have to inquire about your constitutional position, what I am. That is meditation, to know. You just think over yourself, "Whether I am this body?" If you think that... Suppose you think over your, meditate upon your finger. You'll come to the conclusion that "I am not this finger. It is my finger. I am not this finger." Because if the finger is cut off, that I am not dead, therefore I am not finger. It is very easy to understand. So you meditate on every part of your body. You'll come to the conclusion, if you are sane, that "I am not this body. The body is mine. I am not this dress. The dress is mine." That is the conclusion. Then what I am? At the present moment I am identifying with this body, with this dress. (child disturbing) That is illusion. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Bhāgavata says anyone who is identifying himself with this body, he's an ass. He's not even a human being. Actually it is so, because I am not this body. And the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is with this proposition, that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. The body is growing because I am sitting within this body. A child grows so long the soul is there. If a child takes birth, dead body, it does not grow. That means the soul is not there. That is called dead. So this preliminary knowledge one has to learn. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. The Bhagavad-gītā begins from this point, that "I am not this body."

*So this is... The function of human activity is to know oneself, what he is, and then begin his work. And if he works simply just like animal, eating, sleeping, mating and defending... These are animal activities. If you simply endeavor for eating whole day and night, and if you are satisfied whatever you like to eat, and you think that "My mission of life is finished, now my belly is full with foodstuff," that is not human civilization. But in this age people are degrading so much that at the end of the day, if he can have a full belly meal, he says, "Oh, I am now satisfied." Just like animal. Or "If I can sleep in a nice apartment, oh, I am very happy." Or "If I can mate with a beautiful opposite sex, oh, I am happy." These are animal happiness. Actual human happiness is not simply to meet the bodily demands. That is called brahma*-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now where to inquire about this Brahman, about oneself, that is the next question. Just like if you want to learn something about medical science you have to approach some medical man or you have to take admission in some medical school or college. Or if you want to learn about engineering you have to seek after somebody who knows engineering or technology. That is the way of education. So many universities and department of knowledge teaching different department of knowledge. Similarly, if you want to learn about yourself, Brahman, then you have to seek after some teacher who can teach you about your self. This is common knowledge. This is common knowledge. So all the Vedic literature says that in order to learn that transcendental science about yourself or about God, then tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In order to learn that science, don't manufacture, but scientific way, if you want to learn... Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva..., gurum eva abhigacchet. Guru means spiritual master. Eva, eva means certainly. Not that if somebody thinks, "Oh, I can learn about myself without approaching any spiritual master." That is wrong. Actually eva, eva means certainly. One must. And this verb gacchet is used where this sense is used, "must." Gacchet, "must go," "must approach." That is the injunction of the Vedas. Similarly, the injunction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is also tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21].

*Now, in order to approach a bona fide spiritual master, one must be very much disgusted with this material way of life. That is very nice qualification. Unless one is disgusted with this materialistic way of life, that actually in this materialistic way of life there is no happiness... This proposition must be convinced by one, that he should know certainly that "In the material way of life I cannot become happy." This is the first condition. Tasmād. Tasmād means "therefore." Similarly, in Vedānta*-sūtra also, atha ataḥ brahma-jijñāsā. When we become fed up, disgusted with the materialistic way of life, natural inquiry is then "What is next?" That "next," in order to understand that "next," the Vedānta-sūtra says, the Vedic knowledge says that tasmād gurum evābhigacchet. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Therefore one should seek after a bona fide spiritual master and learn there. That is the Vedic injunction. So one who is actually convinced that "The materialistic way of life cannot make me happy," his duty is to seek after a bona fide spiritual master to be enlightened in the transcendental science of understanding oneself and what is God. There are five elementary truths. The living entity... We are all living entities, cats and dogs or animals. There are 8,400,000's of different kinds of... According to different kinds of bodies... The living entity is one spirit soul, but according to his body he is claiming. Just like you have got American body, you are claiming that "I am American." I have got Indian body, I am claiming, "I am Indian." This is by bodily designation. Similarly, a cat has got a body of cat. He is thinking, "I am cat." A dog has got a dog's body; he's thinking that "I am dog." So there are 8,400,000 species of life. They are claiming "I am this and that." Actually, he is spirit soul. He is spirit soul and eternal servant of the Supreme Lord. That is his constitutional position, but he has forgotten. Some way or other, he does not know. And in order to invoke that original knowledge, which is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one should approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is the way. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Why one should approach a spiritual master unless one is inquisitive to understand if there is anything beyond this material world? Otherwise there is no need of seeking a spiritual master. A spiritual master should not be sought after to fulfill one's sense gratification. No. One should be very much eager to understand, to know the science of Brahman, which is beyond this material existence, and then he should very seriously seek after a spiritual master.

*Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. Jijñāsuḥ means inquisitive. What kind of inquisitiveness? Not that we are inquisitive about politics or economics or some football result or some... So many things we have got. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said that there are many questions by the conditioned soul. There are many questions by the conditioned soul living within this material existence without any knowledge of the self-realization. There are many questions. So that sort of question is not required to be solved by the spiritual master. The spiritual master should be approached by a person who is inquisitive to understand śreya uttamam, what is the highest benefit, spiritual benefit, beyond this material existence. For that purpose. Śreya. Śreya means the benefit, highest benefit. Preya and śreya. Preya means immediately I want some benefit, and śreya means the ultimate benefit. One who is inquisitive about the ultimate benefit, he should be inquisitive or inquire from a bona fide spiritual master. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam.

*Now, the next question is, "Who is spiritual master, where I have to go and inquire?" Otherwise I'll be misled. I may approach a person who is not actually bona fide spiritual master. That should also be known. And what is that? That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, in the Vedas and Bhagavad-gītā-everywhere the same thing is. Here also it is said that you should approach a bona fide spiritual master. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, to whom? Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam: [SB 11.3.21] one who has actually taken full bath in the ocean of transcendental knowledge. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. Śābde means the transcendental sound. The Vedic words, hymns, are called transcendental sound, and the gist of all such sound is om, or Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... So one has to take bath in the ocean of this transcendental sound, then he is bona fide spiritual master. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. And what is the symptom? Everyone can say that "I have taken full bath in this transcendental sound," but the symptom is there. What is that symptom? Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of the Supreme Brahman, finishing all material activities. He has no more any material activities. He is simply after the Supreme Brahman or Kṛṣṇa. This is the qualification.

So today we shall perform some initiation performances in this meeting, and we are happy that you have come to participate in this nice function. So see the procedure, how we are doing it. This is Vedic principle, simplified to suit according to the time and place; otherwise, there are many other paraphernalias. So this is the idea, that one who is... (end)





*Śrīmad Bhāgavatam* 12.2: Lectures



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 12.2.1

--

San Francisco, March 18, 1968

680318SB.SF

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 12.2.1

-

San Francisco, March 18, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*tataś cānu*-dinaṁ dharmaḥ

satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā

kālena balinā rājan

naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ

[SB 12.2.1]



*Today we shall discuss about the prominent symptoms of this age. This book, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, was written... Not written, pratically it was recorded. All Vedic literatures, they are recorded from hearing or tradition of... [break]... five thousand years before, the statements of authorities, people could keep in mind without any book record. At that time the memory was so sharp that one could keep in his memory simply by once hearing from the spiritual master. There was no need of written books to consult. So five thousand years ago this book was recorded by Vyāsadeva because he could understand that in future people will be born of so lower grade that it would be not possible to keep in memory without book record. So formerly, these books were written in hand on palm leaves, and... Because there was no press or type. So if you wanted a book, you had to copy from other's book. That was the system.



*So the point is that five thousand years ago the things which were written for this age, how they are coming to be true in our experience. That is the point: how they could see past, present, and future so nicely. The sages were known as tri*-kāla-jñā. Tri means three. There is almost similarity, tri and three. Tri is Sanskrit, and three is English or Latin, but there is similarity. Tri-kāla-jñā. Tri means three, and kāla means time. Time is experienced by three ways: past, present and future. Time limitation, past, present and... Whenever you speak of time, it is past, present or future. So the sages in those days were tri-kāla-jñā. Tri-kāla-jñā means they could understand, they could know what was in the past, what there shall be in the future, and what is at present. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, "My Dear Arjuna, you, Me, I, and all these kings and soldiers who have assembled in this battlefield, they were all individuals, and we are still individual. And in this past, in the future, we shall all remain individuals." That past, present, and future, he explained. Another place Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. Atītāni, atītāni means past. Vartamānāni ca, "and present." So that is yogic power. One can know past, present, and future.

*So here Śukadeva Gosvāmī is speaking about this Kali*-yuga. The Kali-yuga means the fourth age. There are four different kinds of ages: Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga, and Kali-yuga. Just like there are six seasons, or four seasons in a year, similarly, in one day of Brahmā there are one hundred cycles of four yugas. Four yugas means forty-three thousand..., forty-three hundred thousands of years. It is a very long period. That is the duration of four yugas. Similarly, one thousand yugas passes, then one day of Brahmā finished, twelve hours. It is a big calculation. Anyway, there are four yugas, this Satya-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga, Tretā-yuga, and Kali-yuga. So in the previous chapter, some description of these yugas have been described. Now here, in this chapter... This is second chapter of Twelfth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing,

*tataś cānu*-dinaṁ dharmaḥ

satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā

kālena balinā rājan

naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ



*"My dear King..." Śukadeva Gosvāmī was speaking to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, who was emperor of this planet. Mahārāja Parīkṣit. And he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa that he should die within seven days. So he was utilizing the seven days by hearing Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So he's explaining, "My dear King, as the days of Kali-yuga will make progress..." Make progress means we have passed only five thousand years of this Kali-yuga. The total duration of Kali-yuga is 432,000's of years. Out of that we have passed only five thousands of years. I think in the world history there is no..., nobody can place records of five thousand years. At most, the historians can present history of three thousand years. That's all. So Kali-yuga has begun prehistoric age. And before that, what was there in the history nobody can say. But in the Vedic literatures everything is there. You believe or not believe, that is a different thing.



Now here, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, tataś ca anudinam. Anudinam means "as the days will pass." Then what will be the symptoms? Now, naṅkṣyaty. Naṅkṣyaty means gradually diminish, will diminish. What will diminish? Dharmaḥ, religiosity; satyam, truthfulness; śaucam, cleanliness; kṣamā, forgiveness; dayā, mercifulness; āyuḥ, duration of life; bala, strength; *and smṛtiḥ, memory. These eight items, just try to know. First thing is religiosity. As the age of Kali will make progress, people will become more and more irreligious. And they will become more and more liars. They'll forget to speak what is true. Śaucam, cleanliness, that will also diminish. Cleanliness is required. Bahyābhyantaraḥ-śuciḥ. If one is to advance, he has to clean himself. According to Vedic civilization, one has to take bath thrice daily. Actually, in India they take. In our country I was also taking twice bath till I was attacked last year. So I thought that in this country, twice taking bath is not possible, so I am taking once now. But India, there are many gentlemen, high class gentlemen, they take bath thrice. Morning, and before lunch, and in the evening. Especially the brāhmaṇas. So cleanliness is next to godliness. To take bath, to evacuate daily, to wash the teeth, wash clothings, this cleanliness process. But as the days of this Kali*-yuga will make progress, this system of hygienic cleanliness, cleanliness both inside and outside Outside by taking bath, inside by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious-two kinds of cleanliness. Simply if we take bath with soap outside, and inside all rubbish things, that is not cleanliness. Cleanliness means bahyābhyantaraḥ. Bahya means outside, without. Abhyantara means inside. Unless we are clean, unless we are pure, how we can make advance to approach the Supreme? The Supreme is described as the purest. In the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are the Supreme Lord, Brahman." And pavitraṁ paramam: "You are supreme pure." There is no impurity. Impurity means material contamination, and purity means spiritual life. So this cleanliness inside and outside, that will also decrease. Just know.

*First decreasing*-religiosity. People will become irreligious, and they will forget what is telling truth. They will be accustomed to speak lie. And śaucam, no cleanliness. And kṣamā. Kṣamā means forgiveness. Suppose I have done some wrong... [break] ...but there is no forgiveness. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ, people is advised, especially those who are following penance and austerity, yogic principle or devotional life, they should learn to excuse. In our dealings, there are so many faulty dealings between ourselves. So if we take everything very seriously, then it is very difficult to live. So kṣamā. But that kṣamā-kṣamā means forgiveness-will reduce. Nobody will forgive. Retaliation, vengeance, that will increase. So four items: religiosity, truthfulness, cleanliness, and forgiveness. Four. Then dayā. Dayā means mercy. What is dayā? Who is, I mean to say, less strong. Just like animals, birds, beast, you should be very merciful. Just like children: you should be very merciful to children. According to Vedic injunctions, children, woman, brāhmaṇas, old men, and cows. How many? Children, women, brāhmaṇa, cow, and what else?

Devotees: Old men.



*Prabhupāda: Old men. Yes. These five items, according to Manu*-saṁhitā, or Hindu law, they have no offense. They have no offense. They cannot be criminally prosecuted. Excused. If a brāhmaṇa has committed some fault or a woman has committed some fault or a child has committed some fault or a cow has transgressed the law, oh, there is no punishment for them. Dayā. They should be shown always mercy. They require protection, especially. These five items have been especially enjoined that they should be given protection. That is required in human civilization. Cow protection is very important. Woman's protection is very important. Brāhmaṇa's protection is very important. Children's protection is very important. Of course, nowadays there is protection for children, of course, from the state. But that is also artificial. There is killing process also. So many children in the womb are killed. But according to Vedic civilization, they are greatest offense. So dayā. Dayā means you should show your mercifulness those who are weak. So this will reduce, dayā. And āyuḥ, duration of life. Duration of life. In the Satya-yuga the duration of life was 100,000's years. A man used to live for 100,000's of years. Then in the Tretā-yuga it reduced ten times. They used to live for 10,000 years. Then in Dvāpara-yuga it reduced again ten times. They used to live for 1,000 years. And now, in the Kali-yuga, the duration of life is prescribed as 100 years. But you see that it is reducing. Everyone may note it. Perhaps your grandfather lived for 100 years. Your father lived for 80 years. And nowadays, 60 or 70 years. Gradually, it will so reduce, we shall come to that statement, that if a man lives for 20 to 30 years he will be considered a very grand old man. If he lives for 20 to 30 years he'll be considered, "Oh, you have got very good life." That will come, gradually. This is the progressive age. Progressive age for material civilization. We are proud of making advancement of our civilization, but these nice thing are being reduced. That means... We are advancing means reducing the nice things. This is advanced. Āyuḥ and smṛtiḥ. Smṛtiḥ means memory. So these eight items will reduce gradually. You can keep it noted, and you'll see how they are being reduced. And we have already experienced. Smṛtiḥ.



The next description is,

vittam eva kalau nṝṇāṁ

*janmācāra*-guṇodayaḥ

*dharma*-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ

kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi



*Another symptom is how a man is respectable. He says, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, vittam eva kalau nṝṇām. Vittam means money. If you have got money, some way or other, whatever you may be, you are very respected. Janmācāra*-guṇodayaḥ. Formerly a man was respectable by his birth in a respectable family and by his behavior. Just like a brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa was respected because his behavior was so nice. He was truthful, he was clean, he was man of knowledge, he was faithful in scriptures, and so many qualifications. Therefore he was respected. So here it is said that janma, birth in a good family or high family, or good behavior. Janmācāra. Janmācāra, and guṇa, quality. Suppose a man is a great philosopher, a great learned scholar. That is a very good qualification. So these things will not be considered. If a man is very learned scholar or coming of a very respectable family and has got all good qualities, that will be neglected. Another man, if he has all the bad qualities but he has got money, he's respected. He'll be respected. This is the symptom of this age. And dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi. Dharma. Dharma means suppose you have acted something irreligious. In every religion, in every scripture, there are many things, you do it, and do not do it. So that is called following the religious principle. In every religion, either Hindu or Christian or Muhammadan, there are some rules and regulations. Just like in Muhammadan religion, drinking is greatest sin. And Hindu religion, flesh eating, especially cow's meat, is greatest sin. So these are religious principles. So dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyām. So there are some rules and regulation according to different types of religion. So how they will be settled? Kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi: by might. If one has... "Might is right." That "Might is right." There is no reason. "Why you are doing against religious principle?" If I ask, if you are powerful, stronger than me, you'll say, "Yes! I can do that. What is that? What for you? What is that to you?" So balam eva hi. If anyone is powerful in power, oh, he can act against the rules and regulations of religious or scriptural injunctions. Nobody can protest.

*Dharma*-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi. Dāmpatye abhirucir hetur māyaiva vyāvahārike. Dāmpatye. Dāmpatye means making husband and wife relationship. Abhiruciḥ. Abhiruciḥ means liking. A boy likes another girl, and the girl likes another boy. That's finished. Let them become husband and wife. Formerly, it was not. Formerly, according to Vedic civilization, there was no liking of the boy or the girl. The parents of the boy and the girl, they would see, "Whether this combination will be happy." They will bring horoscope and calculate astronomically, "What is the symptoms of this boy? What is the symptoms of this girl? Whether they will be peaceful in married life?" They calculated, and the parents would see in what kind of family the girl is born, and what kind of boy, the family he's born. So many things. If they do not agree, the parents of the girl and the boy, then there is no marriage. Still, in India... At least, I was also married, and some of my children, they were also married. But this system in India is still followed. The parents, they select the suitable boy and the suitable girl. The primary aim is that they may live very peacefully. There may not be unnecessarily disturbance in their family life. That was the aim. But in the Kali-yuga it is said dāmpatye, selection of husband and wife, will depend on agreement. That's all. "I like you; you like me." That's all. Finished. Dāmpatye abhirucir hetuḥ. Abhiruciḥ. Because the boy likes the girl. And suppose the parents do not like? That will be taken, "The girl likes, so that's it." That's all.

*So dāmpatye... It is not only in your country. In every country. Because the age is like that. Dāmpatye abhirucir hetur māyaiva vyāvahārike. Māyā means false dealing. Vyāvahāre. Even in ordinary dealing there will be cheating and faultiness, even in ordinary. Even you go to purchase something from a store, oh, there is false dealing. Dāmpatye. Strītve puṁstve ca hi ratiḥ. And strītve, a husband and wife will agree so long they are sexually strong. That's all. Strītve puṁstve ca hi ratiḥ. Ratiḥ means sex. Formerly it was not the system. The husband and wife combined together as life companion. Even the husband becomes diseased and paralyzed, the wife cannot give, give him up. "Oh, he is my husband." Similarly, wife. Either she becomes diseased or so many things, the husband and wife combined together for life. There was no question of divorce. There was no question of divorce, even they do not like each other, even they fight. Fight there must be, whenever there are two men or woman. That is individuality. Therefore Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, dāmpatye kālahe caiva bambhārambhe laghu*-kriya. Whenever there is fight between husband and wife, it should be neglected. The formula of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita is given like this: Aja-yuddhe. When the goats are fighting, as it is very insignificant... If you understand that in the door two goats are fighting, you don't care for it. You see, a goat fight. So aja-yuddhe muni-śraddhe. And some sages are performing śraddhā ceremony. Śraddhā ceremony means after the death of one's father and mother there is great ceremony and the son spends lots of money. The father spends lots of money during the marriage ceremony of the boy and the girl, and the boy spends lots of money after the death of the father and mother. That is the system, Hindu system. So aja-yuddhe muni-śraddhe. Muni-śraddhe means the muni is performing the śraddhā ceremony after the death of his father. Muni means he lives in the forest. They are mendicants. And what is the expenditure? Some flowers and fruits, that's all. So that is not very expensive. So... And in the forest you haven't got to pay anything for flowers and fruits. You can get from the trees. Aja-yuddhe muni-śraddhe, and prabhāte megra-dumbhake (?). In the morning if there is thundering sound in the cloud, you should know it will not rain. It will never rain. That thundering may be very loud, but there will be no rain. That means you can neglect. As you can neglect the fight between two goats, as you can take not seriously the śraddhā ceremony of muni, as you do not take very seriously the thundering sound of the cloud in the morning, similarly, dāmpatye kālahe caiva, similarly, whenever there is fight between husband and wife, you should take like that. Don't take it seriously. But at the modern civilization, the husband and wife quarrel is taken so seriously that immediately they go to the court and there is filing of divorce, and the combination, the married life, dissolved, and both are unhappy. And this psychology is, as it is stated... I do not know, but probably it is right, that disagreement between husband and wife is due to sex difficulty. That's all. It is clearly stated here. Either the husband or the wife, if there is not complete sex satisfaction, one of them must be very unhappy, and disagreement and dissolution...

*Strītve puṁstve ca hi ratir vipratve sūtram eva hi. Vipratve means... Just this morning I was explaining vipra, who is vipra. Vipra means one who has studied Vedas nicely, or one who has passed in the studies of Vedas, he is called vipra. And before becoming a vipra, there is sacred thread ceremony. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. There are stages: śūdra, dvija, vipra, and brāhmaṇa. These four steps. One is born a śūdra. Śūdra means the lowest class, almost animal. So anyone who is born of father and mother, he is accepted as śūdra. And Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. By birth, everyone is born a śūdra, the lower class. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. And if that man, the boy, or the child, is reformed by education gradually, then he is, saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ, his second birth is there. So amongst the higher class, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, and the vaiśyas, especially amongst the brāhmaṇas and kṣatriya, the boys were trained very nicely. Very nicely. So by reformation, when the boy is, I mean to say, mature, at the age of twelve years or thirteen years, he goes automatically to a spiritual master. He automatically goes to a spiritual master for becoming initiated. Just like sometimes some students come to me also: "Swamiji, get me..." That is the process. When one understands the importance of spiritual life, that is reformation. So automatically he offers to a learned person to accept him as his disciple. That point is, acceptance of a disciple, is the second birth. He is called dvija. Dvi means second, and ja means janma, or life. So saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Dvija, second life, means reformation and acceptance of spiritual master. Then education, spiritual education, begins. And what is that spiritual education? The Vedic literature, just like Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedānta. There are many. Especially Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*So one... When one has educated himself sufficiently in the Vedic literature, he is called vipra. And at that time the spiritual master... Or before that. Before accepting him as a student for spiritual education, the disciple was given a badge which is called sacred thread. You have seen my sacred thread. So that sacred thread is offered. One who has got the sacred thread, is to be understood that he is twice*-born. His second birth is also there. First birth is from the father and mother, and second birth is from the spiritual master and Vedic literature. The spiritual master is the father, and Vedic literature is the mother. Now here, it is said that in the age of Kali, vipratve sūtram eva hi. The sūtra, the thread, is only two-cent worth. So just to place oneself as born of higher class, especially in India that is now being done. One man can purchase a two-cent worth this thread and put it on the..., "Oh, I come from a brāhmaṇa family." Without any education, without any acceptance of spiritual master and without anything, simply by showing the thread, that "I have got this thread," he becomes a brāhmaṇa or vipra, or twice-born or... Nonsense. But this will be done in Kali-yuga. Actually, these things are being done in India especially. Because here, in your country, there is no sacred thread ceremony, but in India there is this division of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and still the sacred thread ceremony is there. So in order to pose oneself as born of high family, one can simply purchase two-cent-worth thread and put on the breast and he can introduce himself, "Oh, I am brāhmaṇa." And nobody is going to inquire whether he is actually a brāhmaṇa. As soon as one sees that sacred thread: "Oh, he's a brāhmaṇa." That's all. So this is the, another symptom of Kali-yuga, that simply by two-cent-worth sacred thread one becomes a brāhmaṇa.

*Liṅgam evāśrama*-khyātāv anyonyāpatti-kāraṇam. Liṅgam. Liṅgam means symptom. According to Vedic literature, there are different dress. A girl unmarried, her dress is different. A girl married, her dress is different. A girl widow, her dress is different. A girl prostitute, her dress is different. A men sannyāsī, his dress is different. A brahmacārī, his dress is different. So by the dress one can understand that who is who. That is the system. So that dress is offered by the spiritual master after qualified. Just like if a girl is married, then his (her) dress is offered during the marriage ceremony. One of the symptoms of married girl is some red powder between the two divisions of the hair. So one can understand that "This girl is not..." So similarly, there are different dresses according to qualification, according to the situation. But in the Kali-yuga, that, anyone can take any dress without any regulation, without any formality. Simply by dress. Suppose... Just like sannyāsī. Because a sannyāsī has to dress himself in these saffron-color garments, so sannyāsī has the privilege, if he goes to a householder's house, he is very respectfully received, and if he wants something, the householder gives him. That is the system. Now, if somebody sees that "It is a very cheap process of earning money, so let me dress in this saffron color and beg from door to door. What is the use of laboring so hard...?" So that will go on. Misuse of dress. Misuse of dress. Liṅgam eva āśrama-khyātāu. Āśrama, a gṛhastha. Āśrama means... There are four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsī. They have got different dresses. But they have got different duties also. But in the Kali-yuga, simply by dress one should be known that either he is a sannyāsī or a brahmacārī or gṛhastha.

*Avṛttyā nyāya*-daurbalyam... I shall explain another one line: avṛttyā nyāya-daurbalyaṁ pāṇḍitye cāpalaṁ vacaḥ. If you have no money, then you cannot get justice. Formerly, if somebody has done injustice to you, you could go in the open court. Because the king used to sit in assembly, and any of the citizens could go there and put his complaint: "My lord, I have been done so wrong by such and such." He could complain, and immediately the judgment is given. That was the system. Now in the Kali-yuga there is court. Suppose you have been insulted, you have been done wrong by somebody, if you want to go to court, oh, immediately you have to find out first about the fees of the lawyer and the stamp fees and so many things. And if you have no money, oh, there is no justice. If you have no money, then there is no justice. Therefore he says, avṛttyā nyāya-daurbalyam. Nyāya means justice, and daurbalyam means weakness. Avṛttyā means without money. Without money you cannot get justice. And pāṇḍitye cāpalaṁ vacaḥ. Paṇḍita means a learned scholar. If he can speak something, without any reference of the scripture, if he can simply, what is called Exact English language I don't find. False propaganda. False propaganda. Simply if he can satisfy the mass people by false propaganda, then he will be accepted that "You are very learned." Nobody will inquire whether he is learned according to the standard books, because nobody has got knowledge of the standard book. I may speak something without any reference to the standard book, but if I can convince you, if I can flatter you, then you will accept me. Just like so many propaganda is going on that "You can become a great yogi, at the same time you can indulge your senses. There is no restriction." People like, they like it. So people are following that. But actually, if we refer to the standard books of yoga, it is very difficult. But that will not be spoken because they will not like it. So everyone can manufacture in his own way some cheap thing, and people will like it. So pāṇḍitye cāpalaṁ vacaḥ.

*So these are the symptoms. We shall discuss later on. The time is eight*-twenty. If you have got any questions about this? [break]

Devotee: ...the *Vedas* were from time immemorial?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Vedas means from the beginning of creation. Brahma, the first living creature, he was impregnated with Vedic knowledge by Kṛṣṇa. And that is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Ādi kavi means the first living creature, Brahma. In his heart, hṛdā... Hṛdā means heart. Tene, impregnated. Brahma, brahma means Vedic knowledge. So he was the first living creature. So one may inquire that how he was educated in Vedic knowledge, because there was no other living being. So therefore it is stated, tene brahma hṛdā. Hṛdā means from within. There is education from within and without. From within the Supersoul gives you education. Kṛṣṇa gives you education. Not to everyone. Who is devotee, to him, the Lord speaks from within. And from without, the spiritual master. So both ways we are getting opportunity for learning Vedic knowledge, from without, from within. And if still we don't take advantage of it, then it is our misfortune. The spiritual master is considered to be the outward expression of the Supersoul. God is so kind that He is within, giving you education, provided you are prepared to hear. And from without, He sends His representative. So both ways we are benefited. We have to take advantage of this opportunity. From without, we have got these books, the spiritual master, the saintly persons, so many. Friends, books. And from within, Kṛṣṇa, the Supersoul.



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām: those who are constantly engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Satata means constantly. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām, engaged. How? How engaged? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. Rendering service with faith and love. Only those persons. Those persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and rendering service with faith and love, to them only. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ: [Bg. 10.10] "I give them buddhi-yogam, the intelligence." What sort of intelligence? Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ yena mām upayānti te: "Such intelligence by which, by help of which he can gradually come to My kingdom." That is there. So from within, there is education, and from without, there is education. So we have to take advantage of this.



*So Vedas, your question, Veda knowledge means from the beginning of the creation. Unless the knowledge is there, how this creation can be conducted? So Brahmā was made in charge of this universe and he was educated in Vedas. Therefore you'll find the Brahmā's picture, he has got Vedas in his hand. Have you seen? Brahmā's picture, he has got Vedas. And in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Ādi-kavaye means he is the original learned man. And the disciplic succession comes from Brahmā. Brahmā was educated by Kṛṣṇa, and from Brahmā, his disciple Nārada, and Nārada's disciple Vyāsa, Vyāsa's disciple Madhvācārya. In the Madhvācārya, Lord Caitanya, in the line. From Lord Caitanya, others. In this way the disciplic succession is coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. And it is called Brahma-sampradāya. Brahma-sampradāya. So that knowledge... Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, this knowledge is received by this disciplic succession. That is perfect knowledge. No adulteration. Just like if you see water directly from the sky, it is pure water. And as soon as you take water either from sea or river, it is adulterated. Similarly, we have to receive knowledge direct from Kṛṣṇa. So it is a great opportunity that Bhagavad-gītā is directly imparted by Kṛṣṇa. And if we take, accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we are full of knowledge. There is no question of research or bothering your brain. You take directly, immediately. We receive knowledge in that way, oh... Just mother gives the child education, "My dear child, here is your father. Here is your brother. Here is your sister," the child accepts it. He doesn't require to make research, "Who is my father?" The mother says, authority, "Here is your father," and accept. Finish. Otherwise make research, "Who is my father? Are you my father? Are you my father? Are you my father? Where is father?" The authority is mother: "Here is your father." Accept it. There is no research. There is no trouble. And if you, "No, I want to find out my father by research," go on with your nonsense research. What research you can do? What knowledge you have got?

*Therefore this knowledge is perfect. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2], by disciplic succession from authority. That knowledge is perfect. Our knowledge, most imperfect. Just like we are studying the moon. So many scientists were engaged to study the moon. Every day we read something about moon. And in Bhāgavata you see that the moon is very cold planet, and there people drink soma-rasa. And the other day I was reading in the paper, the temperature is 200 degrees less than zero. Just you can imagine how cold it is. So how we can go there? Cannot go to Canada because when it is below zero degree, you are you so unhappy. And it is, if we accept the statement of the scientists, it is 200 degrees below zero. So how you can go there? At once you'll die, immediately. Similarly, the temperature of sun, oh, so many degree hot centrigrade. So you have to remain. Therefore we are called conditioned. You cannot go outside. You are conditioned. You may try, but you cannot go outside in that way. If you want to go other planets, then you have to prepare yourself. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*That those who are desirous of going to the heavenly planets... Moon is also considered one of the heavenly planets. They can worship the particular demigod there. If you want to go to tle sun planet, you worship the sun*-god, moon-god, and at the expiry of this body you can directly go there. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn... If you want to go to the Pitṛloka, you can go there. If you want to remain here, you can remain here. And even if you want to go to the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives, you can go there. Yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām: [Bg. 9.25] "And those who are My devotees, they come to Me, My planet." That is... We have described in our book Easy Journey to Other Planets. So you cannot go immediately. You have to make arrangement for. That is not possible that you have discovered something, sputnik, and by sputnik you immediately go to the Candraloka. That is imagination. It is not possible. (end)





720608SB.LA



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, June 8, 1972



*Prabhupāda: ...The person in knowledge, he must see that "I cannot avoid death, I cannot avoid birth, I cannot avoid old age, I cannot avoid disease so long I have got this material body." But Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, "Anyone who understands Me in reality, what I am, then he immediately becomes immune from these four things." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this This body we have to give up. And then next body, tathā dehāntara*-prāptir... So a devotee at least is not going to be cats and dogs or trees. The nondevotees, they are.



Now they are, now the modern advancement is to be naked. So these people are going to be trees. You know Yamalārjuna. You have seen the picture. They were dancing and they were taking bath naked, and they were not ashamed when Nārada Muni was passing. So he cursed them that "You are so fool, you have lost your sense. All right, next life you become a tree, immediately.'' So these senseless, shameless persons who are advancing in their knowledge by becoming naked, they are going to be tree next life. The naked tree is standing naked for many thousands of years. Or animals. They have no shame. So if human being becomes so shameless, then next life is to become animal and trees.



But in the universities they say that "What is the wrong if I become an animal?'' I asked them, "Do you like to be animal?'' "Yes.'' "Then all right, next time you become animal. (laughter) This is your I give you this blessing. That's all.'' (laughter) Flatly said, "Yes, yes I will be happy.'' All right, say it. Kṛṣṇa is so kind: "You want to be naked? All right, you become naked for ten thousand years and stand up.'' So therefore to save ourself from degradation, to save our, this life We are Actually, we are all eternal, but because we don't want Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we want animal consciousness, tree consciousness, animal consciousness.



*So Kṛṣṇa is very kind, "All right, you become tree. What can I do?'' Kṛṣṇa is always ready to give you all facilities. Now it is up to you to make your choice whether you are going to dance with Kṛṣṇa or you want to become naked tree standing for ten thousands of years. That is your choice. A living entity has got this independence. Just like Kṛṣṇa asking Arjuna, yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. "I have spoken to you about things as they are. Now it is up to you to make your choice. Whatever you like, you can do.'' So Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante... [Bg. 4.11]. If you want from Kṛṣṇa that you want to become a tree, so it is not very difficult for Kṛṣṇa to make you a tree. He's all*-powerful. He can do that. But if you want, "Kṛṣṇa I want to be with You personally,'' that also Kṛṣṇa can give you. So now make your choice. This is the human form of life. The animal cannot. The śāstras, the messages are not for the animals. It is for the human beings. Therefore don't spoil your life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. Have kīrtana. (end)





720703SB.LA



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, July 3, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Aśītim means eighty. Aśītiṁ caturas. Caturas means four. So eighty*-four. Eighty plus four means eighty-four. Lakṣam. Lakṣam means hundreds of thousands. So eighty-four hundreds of thousands. Aśītiṁ caturāṁś caiva lakṣāṁs tān jīva-jātiṣu. Jīva-jāti, this is different species of living entities, jīva-jāti, the horse species, the ass species, the dog species. Just like they have got species, jīva-jātiṣu. So in different species of living entities they are counted eighty-four hundreds of thousands, or 8,400,000. Bhramadbhiḥ. Bhramadbhiḥ means transmigrating, wandering, one after another. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. There are 900,000 species within the water, then trees, plants... In this way passing through different species of life, the living entity, jīva-jātiṣu, jīva-jātiṣu, in different species of life, he is transmigrating one after another, one after another.



*Bhramadbhiḥ puruṣaiḥ. Puruṣa means the living entity. The living entity is described here puruṣa because he wants to enjoy. Puruṣa is the enjoyer. Actually enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, but we are imitating Kṛṣṇa. We want to become God. That is the Māyāvāda philosophy. And that is our trouble. I am trying to imitate something which I cannot. Suppose if I want to be God, is it possible to become God? But they are trying to be. Bhramadbhiḥ puruṣaiḥ. So in this way, for this misunderstanding, he is falsely trying to have happiness through so many species of life. "Let me enter this life. Let me enter that life, that life, that life, that." In this way he falls down. He is fallen already. From Vaikuṇṭha planet he is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress. Prāptaṁ mānuṣam. In this way, after many, many births, he gets this human form of life, prāptaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma*-paryāyāt, by the graduation, gradual evolution process. This is real evolution, not the body is changing. Body is already there. Jīva-jātiṣu, the jīva-jāti, species, are already there. That is the defect of Darwin's theory. He does not want... He does not know that the living entity is passing through different types of bodies, not that the body is changing. The bodies are already there. Bhramadbhiḥ puruṣair prāptaṁ mānuṣam janma-jātiṣu, janma-paryāyāt. Paryāya means chronological... What is called, one after another?



Karandhara: Sequential?



*Prabhupāda: Sequential, yes. That's all right. Tad api. Tad api means that human form of life. Aphelatām: "becomes spoiled." Tad api. Once missed, again come down, circle. Circle, just like merry*-go-round. So you are sometimes very high and immediately low down.



*So this circle of birth and death in different species of life is going on, and this human form, life, is a chance to get out of this cycle of birth and death. It is a chance. It is by nature's arrangement, by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, that these living entities who have come here in this material world for false happiness, material happiness, and they are entrapped in this birth and death problem, transmigrating from one type of life to another type of life... Here is a chance for the human being. And Kṛṣṇa comes to the human being, and here is a chance, Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa gives them. So if after reading Bhagavad-gītā... Anāśritya govinda-caraṇa-dvayam. Who is neglecting? His neglect means that teṣām ātmābhimānināṁ varākhānām. Varākha means fools or childish. We are thinking that "I am this body." Such fools cannot understand how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore tad apy aphelatam jata tesam ātmābhimānināṁ varākhānām anāśritya, without taking shelter, govinda-caraṇa-dvayam, the lotus feet of Govinda.



*So bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. We get this chance, and if we are not educated by our teachers, by our fathers, by our leaders, by our government men, by our gurus, by our relatives, how to accept the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, who is canvassing, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up all this nonsense engagement, trying to become Kṛṣṇa or God. Give up this. Surrender unto Me"... This is education. This is education. The father should give education at home. The leaders should give education in institution. The politician should give education in their assemblies, congress. The guru should give education how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. The father should educate. The mother should educate. Therefore Bhāgavata says, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta. Guru na sa syāt jananī na sa syāt pitā na sa syāt. There are some negative definition, that there are so-called gurus, so-called swamis, but Bhāgavata says that "You should not become a swami or guru. Kindly don't become if you cannot save your disciple from the imminent danger of birth and death." Guru na sa syāt. This is the injunction. "No rascal should become a guru unless he can save his disciples from the cycle of birth and death." In other words, anyone who wants to become guru, if he cannot teach his disciples how to surrender, govinda-caraṇa-dvayam, anāśritya, how to take shelter of the lotus feet of Govinda, he should not become guru. That is cheating. That is cheating. Similarly, one should not become father. The father and mother should have determination that "The child I produce, I give birth, if I cannot teach him Kṛṣṇa conscious, surrender to Kṛṣṇa, I shall not beget any child." This is real contraceptive method, not to beget child like cats and dogs. Sva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. So Bhāgavata says, "One should not become father, one should not become mother, one should not become relative, one should not become king, one should not become guru if they cannot save their dependents from this cycle of birth and death." This is the meaning of this verse. Anāśritya govinda-caraṇa-dvayaṁ varākhānām ātma-vimāninaḥ.



So after wandering through these, so many species of life and so dangerous... There are two millions' species of plant life, trees' life. Just see. You have to stand for so many years. A great opportunity, this human form of life. Don't waste. Don't become dogs and hogs and asses and camels. Becomes devotees. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Make your life successful.



Thank you. (end)





750519SB.MEL



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Lecture

-

Melbourne, May 19, 1975



*Prabhupāda: This is a conversation between Mahārāja Parīkṣit and Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Mahārāja Parīkṣit, five thousand years ago he was the emperor of the whole world. Formerly, up to five thousand years ago, the whole world was being controlled and ruled over by kings whose capital was Hastināpura, New Delhi. There was only one flag, only one ruler, one scripture, Vedic scripture, and the Aryans, Arya, they were the civilized persons. You Europeans, Americans, you are also Aryans. Indo*-European stock. Mahārāja Yayāti, grandson of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he gave to his two sons the portion of eastern Europe, Greek and Roman. That is the history, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means great India. So there was no different religion. One religion, Vedic religion. Vedic religion means to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the Supreme Person Absolute Truth. This is Vedic religion. Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, it is said there in the Fifteenth Chapter, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vedic knowledge means to understand God. This is Vedic religion.



*Later on, with the progress of Kali-yuga... Kali-yuga means the dark age or the sinful age or the age for argument, unnecessary talks and fight. This is called Kali-yuga. That is going on. Since the last five thousand years, the Kali-yuga has begun, and the beginning of Kali-yuga was cow-slaughtering. When Mahārāja Parīkṣit was touring all over the world, he saw one black man was attempting to kill one cow. And Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw this and immediately... The cow was trembling for being slaughtered. And Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw, "Who is this man, trying to kill a cow in my kingdom?" So immediately he took his sword. That is kṣatriya. Kṣatriya means that... Kṣat means injury, and trāyate*-it is called kṣatriya. There are persons who want to do harm to others. It has increased now. But during the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time, it was not allowed. The king is responsible. The government is responsible that any one of his subject, either animal or man, he is not disturbed, he feels secure of his property, of his person. And it is the duty of kṣatriya to save him, to protect. This was the system of government. So that's a long story.



*So Parīkṣit Mahārāja was very pious. That was the system. A king, monarch is supposed to give protection everyone within the kingdom. It doesn't matter whether he is man or animal. Even trees. There was no law, unnecessarily cutting or killing, no. Actually, if you are reasonable, national... National means anyone who is born in that land. At the present moment the governments take care of the man only, not of the animals. What is this nationalism? What the animal has done that they should not be protected? So this is called Kali*-yuga, the sinful age. Sinful age. That is increasing. That is increasing. But during Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time, nobody could do anything injustice. Therefore it is said in the śāstra that kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ [SB 1.10.4]. Because everything was right, the nature's way of giving us all comforts, all necessaries of life, that was also complete. As soon as you become injurious or harmful or disobedient to the laws of the king or God... King is supposed to be representative of God. Therefore, in India the king is accepted as the representative of God.



*So formerly the kings were trained up in such a way that one man is sufficient to govern the whole universe, whole..., at least one planet. That was the system. The king was so pious. There are many statement, I mean to say, statements about these king. Why they were pious? Because they were also governed. The kings were governed by first-class brāhmaṇas, sages. The brāhmaṇas should not take part in the management of the government, but they would advise the kṣatriya kings that "You rule over the citizens like this." If the king would not do that, the brāhmaṇas had so much power-there are many instances*-they will dethrone the king or kill him. But they will not occupy the power themselves. His son will be given the chance. This was the system.



So that Parīkṣit Mahārāja was condemned to death within seven days. That is also very nice, interesting. Not interesting very much. It is very sorry plight, that Parīkṣit Mahārāja was cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy to die within seven days, bitten by a snake. What was the incident? The incident was that Mahārāja Parīkṣit was in the forest, hunting. Hunting is allowed only to the kṣatriya kings. Because they were to rule over, and formerly the rogues and rascals by the order of king or king himself would kill him immediately. So they had to practice how to kill. And that practice was done by hunting some ferocious animal in the forest, not for eating. Nowadays hunting is going on for eating purpose. No, that is not the law. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit was in the hunting excursion and he became very thirsty. So he entered one āśrama of saintly person. He was at that time on meditation. So he entered, and he asked him, "Give me drinking water. I am very thirsty." He thought, "It is āśrama." But the sage who was engaged in meditation could not hear him. So the king became little disgusted that "I am king. I am asking water, and this man is silent." So he became little enraged, and there was a dead snake. So he took that snake and coiled over his neck and went away.



*So his one boy, he was ten, twelve years old. He was playing, and his friends told him that, "The king has insulted your father in this way." And the boy became very angry, "Oh, the king is so rude that he has insulted my father." He saw that a dead snake is over his neck. He immediately cursed Mahārāja Parīkṣit that "You will die within seven days, bitten by a snake." So when he was crying very loudly and this, I mean to say, sound was going on, the saintly person, the sage, he got up. "What has happened, my dear boy, you are crying?" "No, no! The king has insulted you, so I have cursed him." Oh, he became very sorry that "You have cursed such a saintly king? Oh, you have brought defamation to the whole brāhmaṇa community. You have allowed Kali*-yuga to come in. It is the Kali-yuga's conspiracy." Anyway he sent the news to the king that "My son foolishly has cursed you. This is... But what can I do? It is God's wish. It has been done. So you be prepared." Now, just see, even a boy born of a brāhmaṇa, how much he was powerful. If a ten years old, he could curse such a great king and he had to abide by that. This was the condition of kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, and vaiśya and śūdra.



*Cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The human society, by the will of God there are four classes of men. The first-class is the brāhmaṇa; *the second*-class, the kṣatriya; *the third*-class, the vaiśyas; *and all others, fourth*-class, śūdras. So at the present moment, practically there is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya, only śūdras, fourth-class men. So you cannot expect any happiness guided by the fourth-class men. That is not possible. Therefore throughout the whole world there is chaotic condition. Nobody is happy. So this is essential that the human society must be divided into four divisions. The brāhmaṇa class means the first-class ideal men, so that by the seeing their character, their behavior, others will try to follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to create some first-class men. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this movement. So therefore we have got these rules and regulation: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This is the preliminary qualification of a first-class man. So we are trying our bit to make some men ideal first-class men. But formerly it was there. Catur... Still there is.



*You don't think that all men are of the same intelligence or same category. No. Still there is intelligent class of men. Just like those who are scientists or philosophers, religionists, they are supposed to be first*-class men. But unfortunately, now nobody can recognize who is first-class and last class. So for proper management of the whole society the first-class, second-class, third-class men must be there. Just like in your body there are different parts of the body. The head, the arm, the belly, and the leg. This is natural. So without head, if we have simply the arms and belly and legs, it is a dead body. So unless you are guided, the human society, by the first-class men, the whole society is dead society. There must division according to cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma... [Bg. 4.13], not by birth, but by quality. So anyone can be trained up first class, second class, as he likes. That is called civilization. Some men should be trained up as first-class men, some men should be trained up as second-class men, and some men should be trained up as third-class men, and balance, who cannot be trained up, they can assist the other three higher class. That is called śūdra. So... [break]



*...that is not possible. A human being, if he is properly trained up, if he is willing to take the instruction he can be made first*-class. Never mind. By birth one may be born in a low class, it doesn't matter. But by training, he can become first class. That is the injunction of the Bhagavad-gītā.



māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyaḥ śūdrāḥ tathā vaiśyā

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*Parāṁ gatim. Parāṁ gatim means to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our real home, the spiritual world. And live there eternally, blissfully, with full knowledge. That is our real position. So here we have come in this material world for material enjoyment. And the more we are making plan for material enjoyment, the more we are becoming entangled. That we do not know. They are thinking that material sense enjoyment is the aim of life. No, that is not the aim of life. That is the way to become more and more entangled. For sense enjoyment I have got this now body, Indian body, you have got this Australian or American or European body. But you have to change this body. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. We are eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul does not take birth; neither it dies. We simply change body.



*Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Just like we are changing our body. In mother's womb we had a small body. It grows, and we come out. Again it grows. Grows... It is not actually growing, it is changing. The child is changing his body to baby, the baby is changing his body to boy, and the boy is changing his body to youthhood. Then... in this way you are changing body. That you have got experience. You had a child's body-you remember. Or you had a boy's body*-you remember. But the body is no longer existing. But you are existing. Therefore the conclusion is that when this body will be no more fit for existing we shall have to accept another body. This is called tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So we have to change. That is nature's law. The soul is immortal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The soul is not finished, simply a particular type of body being finished, no. The people do not know it. And because they are simply engaged in sinful activities, their brain has become so dull that they cannot understand this simple truth that as you are changing body in this life therefore you will change this body to another life. This is very simple truth. But at the advancement of material civilization, we have become so dull and rascal that we cannot understand it.



But India still, although it is so fallen, you go to a remote village. A common man, he has no education. He believes. He believes. And here in the western countries, I saw many many big, big professors. They have no idea. I met one big professor, Kotovsky, in Moscow. He said, "Swamijī, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Just see. He is a big professor and in charge of a very big department, Indology. He has no idea. But this is not the fact. The fact is that we are all sparks, spiritual spark, part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, we have come into this material world for sense enjoyment. In the spiritual world there is no sense enjoyment. There is sense purification. In the material world the senses are impure. They simply want to enjoy material things. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that you have to purify your senses. That is the way.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*This bhakti means that we have to clear ourself from the designations. What is that designation? Everyone is thinking "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am European," "I am Australian," "I am cat," "I am dog, "I am this, "I am that,"*-bodily. We have to cleanse this bodily conception of life that "I am not this body." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." This we have to realize. Then there will be no distinction that "Here is an American, here is an Australian, here is an Hindu, here is a Muslim, here is a tree, here..." No. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Paṇḍitāḥ means learned, one who knows things as they are. For them...



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*A person, very learned, vidyā and very gentle... vidyā means, educated means, he is gentle, sober. He is not rogues and ruffian. That is vidyā. That is the test of education. He must be very sober and silent. That is called gentleman, in one word. So vidyā*-vinaya, one gentleman, very learned scholar, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi, and a cow, and hasti, an elephant, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, and śuni-śuni means dog, and śvapāk... Śvapāk means a dog-eater. There are many persons, they prefer to eat different types of flesh. But one who eats the dog's flesh, he is considered to be very lower class. So śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. One who is paṇḍita, learned, he sees every one, them, on the same level. What is that same level? Spirit soul. He does not see the outward body. That is called brahma-darśin. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. And if one becomes situated in that position,



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātm

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*When one is self*-realized that he is not this body, he is the spirit soul, brahma-bhūtaḥ, then what are the symptoms? Now, prasannātmā: he becomes immediately very jolly. So long we are materially engrossed, bodily concept of life, there will be always anxiety. This is the test. Anyone who is in anxiety, means he is materially situated. And anyone who is elevated to the spiritual platform, he is prasannātmā. He is jolly. What is the meaning of prasannātmā? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He does not want anything, and if anything he has got, if he has lost, he does not cry for it. That's all. Here in the material world we are hankering after something which we do not possess. And if we possess something, if it is lost, then we cry. Two business: Śocana and ākāṅkṣa. Everyone is trying to be very big man. That is called ākāṅkṣa. And if he is lost of his possession, then he cries. So these two things will be finished if you become spiritually situated.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣat

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu...

[Bg. 18.54]



*Unless one is spiritually realized, he cannot see equally everyone. Then samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Then one can become real devotee of the Lord, after surpassing the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. So this bhakti line is not so easy. But by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy we have installed the Deity here in your country. You are very fortunate that Caitanya Mahāprabhu has come to your country to teach you how you become free of all anxieties. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Everyone is full of anxiety, but everyone can be freed from all the anxieties if he follows the path chalked out by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And what is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction? Very simple.



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*This is not Caitanya Mahāprabhu's personal version. This is in the scripture, Vedic scripture. Bṛhan*-Nāradīya-Purāṇa. This instruction is there. As people are fallen in this age the method also has been offered very simple. They cannot follow any strong or severe austerities. It is not possible. They have been recommended simply to chant the holy name of God. That's all. Anyone can do. It is not difficult at all. Then if you say that "You are from India. Your Caitanya is Indian, and He is recommending Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I chant? I have got my own God." All right, if you have got your own God, then you chant His name. Caitanya Mahāprabhu doesn't say that you chant simply Kṛṣṇa's name. If you have got any relationship with God and if you know His name and address, (laughter) then you chant His name. Unfortunately, you do not know who is God; neither you know His address, neither His activities. So take this Kṛṣṇa. Here is a solid name. And we give you His address, His father's name, His mother's name, everything. So if you have got your own God's name, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said you can chant. Have you got any name, anyone, God's name? Nobody knows?



Devotee: Jehovah.



*Prabhupāda: Jehovah. All right you chant Jehovah. So that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's recommendation, that if you think that this is God's name, you chant. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija*-sarva-śaktiḥ tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, that holy name of God is as good as God. We cannot see God. We can see, but not immediately. When we are advanced we can see God, talk with Him. But because we are not competent now, so if we know this is the name of God, let us chant it. That's all. Is it very difficult job? Anyone will say it is very difficult job? Chant the name of, holy name of God. Then what will happen? Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Your, if you chant the holy name of God, then your heart which is considered to be mirror... Just like you see your face on the mirror, similarly, you can see your position on the mirror of the heart, core of the heart. You can see. That is called meditation. So at the present moment our heart is covered with the dust of material conception. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," "I am that." This is all dust. You have to cleanse this. Just like on the mirror if there is a layer of dust you cleanse it. Then you see your real face.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam: "By chanting the holy name of the Lord, you will gradually cleanse the dust which is covering the core of your heart." Very simple thing. Go on chanting. And then what will be the position? Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam: "This blazing fire of anxieties of material existence will be over immediately." Simply by this method, chanting. If you have got any name, if you have got objection to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, so whatever name of God you know, you chant. This is our movement. We don't say that you have to... But this is accepted by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that harer nama [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. So if you have no objection, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And if you think that "The Hare Kṛṣṇa is imported from India. We shall not chant," all right, you chant your own God's name. Where is the objection? But chant the name of, holy name of God. That is our propaganda.



*Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And as soon as you become cleansed of your heart, then the anxiety... Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. You'll gradually increase. Then you will understand that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor cat, nor dog, but I am the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord." Then, if you understand that you are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, then you will understand your business. Just like in your body you have got so many parts and parcels. You have got the hands, you have got the legs, you have got the head, you have got the fingers, you have got the ear, you have got the nose-so many parts. So what is the business of all these parts of your body? The business of parts of the body to maintain the body properly, to serve the body. Just like this finger is there. I am feeling some incomfort; *immediately my finger comes and serves, automatically. Therefore the conclusion is that it is the business of the part and parcel of God to serve God. That is the only business. Natural business. So when you are engaged in the service of the Lord, because you understand*-by chanting the holy names Lord you will understand who is Lord and what is His advice, what does He want service from me-then you will be engaged in that service. That is the perfection of your life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12].



*And as soon as you become cleansed of all dirty things, then your actual progress of life begins. Just like kairava*-candrikā, just like the moon, on the first day it is just like a line, then gradually increases; *the body and the moonshine increases. Therefore this comparison is given. The more you become Kṛṣṇa consciousm the shining of your life increases. Śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam. Then this life will be full of knowledge. Vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. And to increase the life of knowledge means ananda. Ānanda means pleasure. We want pleasure. So you will get more and more pleasing life. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. And prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanam. And every step of life, as we are... In the material way of life we are experienced, only unpleasure, difficulties, the just opposite. Ānandāmbudhi-vard... Āmbudhi means the ocean. So this ocean does not increase, but when you come to the spiritual ocean of ānanda, blissfulness, it will increase daily.



*Just like these boys. They are coming from Europe, America. They are not Indians. But why they are sticking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement unless they are increasing their transcendental pleasure? They are not fools and rascals. They are educated. Why they have taken to this ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. It is increasing their transcendental pleasure. So anyone who takes to this process, he will increase his ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Prati-padam pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanam. And he will be able to taste what is the meaning of life, what is the meaning of pleasure. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam: "All glories to the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." So this is the process. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading this knowledge as far as possible, and by Kṛṣṇa's grace we have got this temple in Melbourne, and it is all very creditful to our disciple, Śrīman Madhudviṣa Svami. And you take advantage of it. That is my only request. If you do not do anything, simply come and join chanting, you will gradually know very soon.



*Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Kṛṣṇa, His name, His form, His activities, His qualities, we cannot understand with these blunt material senses. It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. "Then? We have got this only possession, indriyas. How we shall understand?" Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. If you engage your senses in the service of the Lord, svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ, then Kṛṣṇa will reveal to you that "Here I am." This is the process. Now this word is very significant. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā means tongue. If you simply engage your tongue in the service of the Lord, you will gradually develop. So how to engage the tongue? It is not said that "If you see, or if you touch, if you smell," no. "If you taste." So what is the business of the tongue? The business of the tongue*-that we can taste nice foodstuff and we can vibrate. Do these two jobs. Vibrate with your tongue Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take as much as possible prasādam. (laughter) And you become a devotee. Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) [break]



*Madhudviṣa: Is it possible for a dog*-eater to become a first-class man?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Engage this tongue for these two business. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam. He will forget dog*-eating. (laughter) There is no exception. Everyone can become Kṛṣṇa conscious if he follows, beginning, these two rules: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam. That's all. Test it. Make a trial. The temple is here. We are inviting. Come here. Do these two business. And our Madhudviṣa Mahārāja is ready to give you prasādam and chance for dancing and singing. That's all. Where is the difficulty? You haven't got to pay for it. No loss. If there is any gain, why don't you try it?



Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, why is it necessary for someone to come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam?



Prabhupāda: Just to... Because here is the center. Everything is being done properly. You will learn. Just like you have to go to school or college to learn. So just similarly, if you have to take the education of spiritual life, they will come here and see how people are doing, ideal. And you should be ideal. If you are not ideal, then it will be useless to open center. You behave nicely; they will come, they will see, and they will learn. If you go to some school and the professors are rascals then what you will learn? It is both, reciprocal. You shall act as professor, teachers. Your life should be ideal, and they will come and see, and they will learn.



Girl: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if the kings were taught to govern the whole universe, does that mean all the worlds, all the worlds in the universe?



Madhudviṣa: She's just wondering how it would be possible for one king to rule the whole world? It seems like it is very difficult. Nowadays we have so many leaders and they cannot manage...



Prabhupāda: Forget that. Why you are thinking that you cannot rule over; therefore others cannot? You are thinking in your term. But there are. That is possible. So that is not our field of activities. It is others', politics and... But let us... Our business is how to improve our spiritual condition of life. Even if you don't rule over the world, it doesn't matter. So why you are anxious to rule over the world? It is not our business. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam. All right, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



*Nectar of Devotion* Lectures





700623ND.LA

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Los Angeles, June 23, 1970



*Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have published our Nectar of Devotion. So every one of you should read this Nectar of Devotion repeatedly. The whole substance of Vaiṣṇava philosophy and activities, everything is there. So every one of you read this Nectar of Devotion once, twice, thrice. Unless you have got full*-fledged ideas what is this devotional service... That was written by... Actually, it was spoken by Lord Caitanya to Rūpa Gosvāmī. For ten days continually He instructed Rūpa Gosvāmī at Prayāga, Daśāśvamedha-ghāṭa. You have seen the picture in TLC. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was at Allahabad, Prayāga, and Rūpa Gosvāmī met Him there. He was offering obeisances flat. You have seen that picture. So at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally gave him instruction what is this cult of bhakti. So for ten days. And he took note of it and later on he placed this book in the form of Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. That is in Sanskrit. It will be difficult for you. Therefore I have presented a summary study, and the summary study has come to 407 pages. If we would have elaborately described each and every verse, then it would have come to at least thousand pages.



*So the whole substance is creamed. You should take advantage of this. And don't indulge in much unnecessary talks. Time should be very properly utilized. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ. Value of time is so great that one moment of your life lost, it cannot be returned even in exchange of millions of dollars. Therefore every moment should be properly utilized. Avyartha kālatvam [Cc. Madhya 23.18-19]. When one is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness his business becomes to see, "Whether I am wasting my time?" That is one of the sign of advanced devotee. Avyartha kālatvam. Nāma-gāne sadā ruci [Cc. Madhya 23.32]. Attachment for chanting always. Prītis tad-vasati sthale: [Cc. Madhya 23.18-19] and attraction or attachment for living in the temple, vasati, where Kṛṣṇa lives. Kṛṣṇa lives everywhere, but specifically, to give us chance to meet, He lives in the temple or in places like Vṛndāvana. So prītis tad-vasati sthale. One should be enhanced in attachment for living where Kṛṣṇa is living. Prītis tad... Nāma-gāne sadā ruci [Cc. Madhya 23.32]. And taste for singing always the holy name. These are development. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. All of you who come here, it is out of śraddhā, some, what is called... What is the exact English word for śraddhā? Devotion, you can take. Devotion. Those who come here, their first principle is they have some regard that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nice. Let me see." So this is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā. And then sādhu-saṅgaḥ: then associate with these devotees. Then, after some time, when he's little advanced more, then he is eager to become initiated. This is third stage, as some of these students are going to be initiated today. The initiation means bhajana-kriyā. Actually executing devotional service: initiation. And if one actually executes devotional service, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, then all nonsense habits will disappear. Then I'll not have to stress on the point these four regulative principles. Automatically it will go away. That is the test. How one has properly utilized his initiation will be tested that he has no more attraction for these four principles: illicit sex, intoxication, gambling, and meat-eating. They will automatically go. There is no need of asking. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then ruci. When one is freed from all these prohibitive principles, then he develops a taste, tato ruci. Tato niṣṭhā: then he's steadily confirmed. Athāsaktiḥ. Then attachment: he cannot go. He cannot go. Athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ. Then ecstasy. And then he comes to the platform of love of Godhead. So when that platform is reached, then everything is successful. And if that platform is not reached, then everything is simply waste of time. But in the beginning, if you follow these principles, as laid down by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī and other ācāryas...

So these things, one after another, everything is very clearly explained in this *Nectar of Devotion*. So each chapter you should read very carefully. And if you cannot understand, read it repeatedly. Don't all of a sudden, reading one or two page, immediately question, "Prabhupāda, what is this? What is this? What is this?" Go on reading, and the answers will automatically come. So this book is, this valuable book is now published. You should take full advantage.

So chant this mantra... (end)



721016ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 16, 1972



*Pradyumna (reading): "The Nectar of Devotion is a summary study of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which was written in Sanskrit by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. He was the chief of the six Gosvāmīs who were the direct disciples of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. When he first met Lord Caitanya, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda was engaged as a minister in the Muhammadan government of Bengal. He and his brother Sanātana were then named Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa respectively, and they held responsible posts as ministers of Nawab Hussain Shah. At that time, five hundred years ago, the Hindu society was very rigid and if a member of the brāhmaṇa caste accepted the service of a Muhammadan ruler he was at once rejected from brāhmaṇa society. That was the position of the two brothers, Dabira Khāsa and Sākara Mallika. They belonged to the highly situated sārasvata-brāhmaṇa..."



*Prabhupāda: These two brothers, at that time their name was Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa. So they were ostracized from the brāhmaṇa community. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special grace, that He accepted two rejected gentlemen from the brāhmaṇa society and made them gosvāmīs. That is the special significance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He accepted Haridāsa Ṭhākura from born in Muhammadan community and He made him the ācārya, namācārya. The, practically Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared to glorify the significance of the holy name. He is actually the ācārya, namācārya, but He transferred His namācārya*-ship to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. It doesn't matter whether he's a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra or anyone, if he's kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he can be made the spiritual master. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement's significance.



So following His footsteps, we are preaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult and giving sannyāsa for preaching. That is not unauthorized. One who criticizes this action, he does not know the principle of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle is anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become spiritual master. This is the principle. So from the very beginning, these two Gosvāmīs... They were not in the beginning Gosvāmīs. They were Sākara Mallika, Dabira Khāsa. But they were made Gosvāmīs. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura was made namācārya. Then go on. This is the new edition of *Nectar of Devotion*.

*Pradyumna: "They belonged to the highly situated sārasvata*-brāhmaṇa community, but they were ostracized due to their acceptance of ministerial posts in the government of Hussain Shah. It is the grace of Lord Caitanya that He accepted these two exalted personalities as His disciples..."



*Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇa community was so strong that because acceptance of service is the business of the śūdra... The brāhmaṇas, they would not accept anyone's service. The kṣatriyas, they would not accept anyone's service. And the vaiśyas also. They should live independently. Brāhmaṇas, by culture of Vedic knowledge. Kṣatriyas by exacting taxes from the citizens. And vaiśyas by trade, agriculture. They should live. To serve one is the business of the dog. That is mentioned in Bhāgavata. So if there is dire necessity, a brāhmaṇa can accept the profession of a kṣatriya or the, even the profession of a vaiśya, but not the profession of a śūdra. But at the present moment, because everyone accepts the profession of śūdra, therefore śāstra says: kalau śūdra*-sambhavaḥ. Here is the example, that Sākara Mallika, he was brāhmaṇa, sārasvata brāhmaṇa. But because he accepted... They were learned brāhmaṇas, not fools. Very good scholar in Sanskrit and Arabian language, still because they accepted service in the Muhammadan government, they were rejected. Immediately. No. Punishment. That is punishment. In Hindi it is called hookah panibhyam. In the society, in villages still, if one is ostracized, nobody will smoke with him. Hookah. Hookah means smoking. And pani means not to accept his water. Hookah panibhyam. So that is ostracization. That was taken against Sanātana Gosvāmī. They were not gosvāmī at that time. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted them. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special grace. What is that word? Come on. Go on. What happened?



Pradyumna: "It is the grace of Lord Caitanya that He accepted these two exalted personalities as His disciples and raised them to the position of gosvāmīs, the highest position of brahminical culture. Similarly Lord Caitanya accepted Haridāsa Ṭhākura as His disciple although he happened to be born of a Muhammadan family. And Lord Caitanya later on made him the ācārya,..."



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Pradyumna: "...later on made him..."



Prabhupāda: (Hindi)



Pradyumna: "...and Lord Caitanya later on made him the ācārya of the chanting of the holy name of the Lord, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.



*Lord Caitanya's principle is universal. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa and is engaged in the service of the Lord is accepted as being in a higher position than a person born in the family of a brāhmaṇa. That is the original principle accepted by all Vedic literatures, especially by the Bhagavad*-gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The principle of Lord Caitanya's movement in educating and elevating everyone to the exalted post of a gosvāmī is taught in the Nectar of Devotion.

*Lord Caitanya met the two brothers, Dabira Khāsa and Sākara Mallika in a village known as Rāmakeli in the district known as Maldah, and after that meeting the brothers decided to retire from government service and join Lord Caitanya. Sakara Mallika, who was later to become Rūpa Gosvāmī, retired from his post and collected all the money he had accumulated during his service. It is described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta that his accumulated savings in gold coins equaled millions of dollars and filled a large boat. He divided the money in a very exemplary manner, which should be followed by devotees in particular and by humanity in general. Fifty percent of his accumulated wealth was distributed to the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, namely the brāhmaṇas and the Vaiṣṇavas. Twenty-five percent was distributed to relatives. And twenty-five percent was kept against emergency expenditures and personal difficulties. Later on when Dabira Khāsa also proposed to retire, the Nawab was very much agitated and put him into jail. But Dabira Khāsa who was later to become..."

*Prabhupāda: In this connection, we may inform that our disciples in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, those who are gṛhasthas, they contribute at least fifty percent of their income. Yes. Most of them, they are full*-time engaged. But if one cannot be whole time engaged... Just like we, we have got our disciple, Professor Howard Wheeler. He gives more than fifty percent of his income for developing our New Vrindaban scheme. So we try to follow these principles laid down by Rūpa Gosvāmī, that fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's devotees, twenty-five percent for personal emergencies and twenty-five percent for the dependent relatives.



There are many couples here. They are married. I got them married. Sometimes I am criticized by my godbrothers. But they do not know why I got them married. Here is a couple, Gurudāsa and his wife, Yamunā, and where is Mālatī? Mālatī's not here? Eh? Mālatī and her husband, Śyāmasundara. And another couple, Jānakī and Mukunda. I sent them first, missionary to London to start the temple. And for one year, they struggled very hard and they called me that "I started the temple." So my Guru Mahārāja wanted to start a temple in London. He sent two sannyāsīs but it was not possible. But these gṛhasthas, they started. So we want to see that the mission is fulfilled. It doesn't matter whether he's a gṛhastha or sannyāsī. Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. So by getting them married, I am benefited. They have helped me.

Guest (Indian man): There is nothing against marriage.



Prabhupāda: But sometimes my godbrother criticizes that I am sannyāsī, I am taking part in marriage. So I have got very good difficulties. Here, when I come to India, they say that I am spoiling Hindu system of religion. And when I go there, the Christian says that "You are the greatest enemy." (laughter) This is my position. You see. If I go ahead, then... And if I go behind, then... So what can be done? I have to execute my duty. I am not encouraged by the government, by my godbrothers, and still I have to do this duty. What can be done? So, so far I am concerned I know by getting them married I am benefited. They have done so much... He's also married, this boy. He's always... He has got his wife, he has got children, but he doesn't care for his wife and children. He remains with me and he helps me in editing the Sanskrit portion of my books. He has studied Sanskrit. He was not a Sanskrit scholar, but by his endeavor he has studied Sanskrit. So all my books, Sanskrit editing work, is done by...



Guest: I see.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He worked very hard. Now he understands Sanskrit. He can read Sanskrit. So if I get facility for pushing on my missionary work, there is no harm in getting married. Because in Europe, America these boys and girls, they live like friends. So I said that "You cannot live as friends. You must get yourself married" and that is, that has proved... Here is a girl. Where is that Śāradīyā, Śāradīyā there?



Devotee: Here she comes.



Prabhupāda: Eh. When she was young, fifteen years, she very frankly told me that "I want this boy to marry, Vaikuṇṭha." (laughter) So I told Vaikuṇṭha that "You, you are reserved for her. As soon as she's over sixteen years, you have to marry her." Another girl, she is now at Manila. She's Australian. She was a famous actress. So she came to Los Angeles and surrendered to me. And I asked her that "You go to Tokyo. I have got a disciple. And get yourself married with him."



Guest: Oh, wonderful!



Prabhupāda: Yes. She never saw him. So in European countries...



Guest: That's impossible.



Prabhupāda: It is impossible. But she went and married him and they're living peacefully. Now they are married. So I have to see the interest of my missionary work. Never mind. Of course it is a novel thing, that sannyāsī is taking part in marriage. But what can be done? I have to execute my mission. Go on. I think it is now...



Pradyumna: "But Dabira Khāsa who was later to become Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī took advantage of his brother's personal money..."



Prabhupāda: You can arrange a light here. Yes.



Pradyumna: "...which had been deposited with a village banker and escaped from the prison of Hussain Shah. In this way, both brothers joined Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



Rūpa Gosvāmī first met Lord Caitanya at Prayāga (Allahabad, India) on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ghāṭa of that holy city and on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ghāṭa of that holy city the Lord instructed him continually for ten days. The Lord particularly instructed Rūpa Gosvāmī on the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These teachings of Lord Caitanya to Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda are narrated in our book *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*.

*Later Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda elaborated the teachings of the Lord with profound knowledge of revealed scriptures and authoritative references from various Vedic literatures. Śrīla Śrīnivāsa Ācārya describes in his prayers to the Six Gosvāmīs that they were all highly learned scholars, not only in Sanskrit, but also in foreign languages such as Persian and Arabian. They very scrutinizingly studied all the Vedic literatures in order to establish the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the authorized principles of Vedic knowledge. The present Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also based on the authority of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. We are therefore generally known as rūpānugas, or followers in the footsteps of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. It is only for our guidance that Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī prepared his book Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which is now presented in the form of the Nectar of Devotion. Persons engaged in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement may take advantage of this great literature and be very solidly situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Bhakti means devotional service. Every service..."

*Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, he used to advise us to read Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Everyone, after initiation. At least, he advised me. So this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu is very important as study book for the Vaiṣṇavas. It is the science of devotional service. And people are, in Western countries, taking interest. In the Temple University, it has become a textbook in the religious class. There are sixty students who are regularly studying the Bhakti, Nectar of Devotion published by us. And gradually it is being introduced in other colleges and schools. I think you are straining.



Gurudāsa: The candle is coming.



Prabhupāda: Coming. Hm. So we can stop. Acyutānanda, you can have kīrtana. (end)





721226ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, December 26, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "...who was later to become Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, took advantage of his brother's personal money, which had been deposited with a village banker, and escaped from the prison of Hussain Shah. In this way, both brothers joined Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Rūpa Gosvāmī first met Lord Caitanya at Prayāga (Allahabad, India), and on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ghāṭa of that holy city the Lord instructed him continually..."



Prabhupāda: Now sometimes it is questioned that Sanātana Gosvāmī paid the money in black market. Yes. Actually he paid. When the Hussain Shah, Nawab, imprisoned him, he was minister. The superintendent of jail, he was working under him. He was minister. So the Sanātana Gosvāmī requested him that "I had done so many times your benefit. So you do me one benefit. You let me go. Let me go al..., the, although the Nawab has imprisoned me." (aside:) That's not required. So "I am going to be a pir (?)." Because the Muslims, they respect very much the pir. So actually he was going to be a pir. They renounced the family life and became gosvāmīs. "So I am sacrificing my life for God, and you just help me in this service. And not only that, you get some material profit also. I have got this, that, about..." First of all, he offered five thousand, five thousand gold mudras (?). But when he was not very happy, then he offered ten thousand. In this way, it was settled and the superintendent of jail let him go. And he inquired from Sanātana Gosvāmī, "What I shall explain to the Nawab when he'll ask me explanation, call for explanation? You are going." So he gave him a trick that... Formerly, people used to evacuate on the field. So he was imprisoned. So he wanted to evacuate in the field. And the superintendent of jail was accompanying him. In this way, he fabricated story and he told that "When he was evacuating, immediately he jumped over the river and the river's waves were so strong, he was carried away. I could not find him." So in this way, Sanātana Gosvāmī escaped after bribing.



*Now the question is whether this kind of black marketing, bribing, is required for spiritual life. And the answer is that everything is required, provided you can satisfy Kṛṣṇa. This is the principle. In, according to time, circumstances, the dealing... Just like Arjuna, we have, in the battlefield, there was fighting, and Kṛṣṇa is advising Yudhiṣṭhira that "You go and tell Dronācārya that your son, Aśvatthāmā, is dead." So Kṛṣṇa is advising to speak lie. And Yudhiṣṭhira hesitated: "How can I speak lie? I never spoke lie in my life." So the idea is that our dealings in the ordinary... When there is fighting, in fighting, they take all means, all propaganda, all means, you know that. Fighting, one... The aim is how to own victory. Although there are so many international laws, they don't care for it. Just like bombing. Bombing. Sometimes the opposite party, they keep soldiers under Red Cross, because Red Cross is not bombed according to international... But they, they get information and they bomb also. These are common practice. Just like in India, in the Hindu*-Muslim fight, the Muslims were keeping weapons within mosques. You know that. Everyone knows. So there (are) so many international law of the fighting, but when there is necessity, they neglect all international law and they take advantage.

So then... I have heard from a very reliable officer, Mr. Mac Pherson, in Allahabad... He was my... At that, at that, at that time, I was keeping a drug shop. So he was my customer. And when he was coming, he was talking with me many past stories of the war. So once he narrated... He was also one of the commanders. That the First War, Marshall Foch? He was in Second World War, or First? I think First World War. Or First? I think First World War.

Devotee: First Expeditionary.



Prabhupāda: Marshall Foch. He was in charge of the French centers. So the Belgium, there were many refugees from Belgium, most women and children. So they came to France. And in charge was Mis..., Marshall Foch. So this Mr. Mac Pherson, he told me that "We were officers. We informed that so many refugees have come from Belgium. What to do." Then Marshall became very angry. You see. He became very... "What can I do? In this battlefield?" So it was ordered that they should be killed. So actually it so happened that all these women and children, they were assembled together, and four guns from four sides, they were blown up. You see. Their own alliance. Not alliance, what it is called? Allies, allies.



So these things take place in war, sometimes. There is no international law, no humanitarian... Everything goes on. Everything. Similarly, the point is that as people act, hooks and crooks, everything, for satisfying the senses, gaining some material profit, similarly, if need be, everything can be accepted for Kṛṣṇa's service. Everything can be, can be accepted. Otherwise, how Sanātana Gosvāmī is bribing? How Kṛṣṇa is advising Yudhiṣṭhira to speak lie? There is a verse, man nimitte kṛtaṁ pāpaṁ puṇya eva kalpate. Sometimes it appears that this is a sinful act, but if it is done for Kṛṣṇa, the, our bhakti is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. We have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa is asking me to tell lie. Yes, I shall tell lie." That is bhakti. If I consider, "Oh, I never spoken lies in my life. How can I speak lie?" that is not bhakti. Because it is prātikūla, against the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Common people cannot understand this. They'll be shuddered. (aside:) Why one candle is not burning? Get it. You should... They think, "Oh, oh, Kṛṣṇa is teaching Yudhiṣṭhira, such a nice man, religious person, and He's teaching him to speak lie." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. If sometimes one thinks like that, he becomes mūḍha. When Karṇa was repairing the wheel of his chariot, Kṛṣṇa asked Arjuna, "Kill him immediately. Kill him immediately." And Karṇa protested: "Arjuna, what you are doing? I am not in fighting now." So Kṛṣṇa said, "No, this is the time of... Otherwise, you cannot be able to kill him. This is the time. This is the opportunity. You kill him." Because Karṇa was greater hero than Arjuna. Dronācārya, Bhīṣma... That is explained by Parīkṣit Mahārāja, that "In the battlefield of Kuru, just like a ocean, and there were big, big crocodiles, animals, like Dronācārya, Bhīṣma, Karṇa. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, my grandfather was able to kill them." Arjuna was not so strong that he could kill Bhīṣma or Dronācārya, Karṇa. They were greater heroes. So these things are there.

*There, there are many instances. Just like gopīs. At dead of night, when Kṛṣṇa's flute was there, they left their husband, left their father, left their brothers, children, everything, and they went away. Now, according to our Vedic system, young girls, young women, leaving the protection of father, brother or superiors, and going in the forest for another boy*-oḥ, it is very sinful. Socially, it is sinful. And Kṛṣṇa instructed them, "What you have done? You go back immediately." And they began to cry. That, this description is there. So now, from the social point of view, this is sin. This is sin when the gopīs went to Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja was standing without any protest and his father is being killed. Now can any sane man see that his father is being killed, and he's standing silently, without any protest? And Bali Mahārāja, he rejected his spiritual master. When Śukrācārya said that "Don't promise. He's Viṣṇu. He'll take everything of your. Don't promise anything," the Bali Mahārāja said, "He is Viṣṇu? And you are asking me not to promise to Him? Oh, I don't want such spiritual master. I reject him." To reject spiritual master is a great sin. So these are, from social point of view, from religious point of view, these are irreligious, sinful activities, to reject one's spiritual master; to see one's father being killed in one's presence; *one woman is going to another boy, dead of night. Superficially they are sinful activities. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū*-vargeṇa yā kalpitā. There is no upāsanā, method of worship, as it was conceived by the gopīs. First class.

*So the point is that superficially it may appear sometimes against the social and religious rules and regulations, but if it is done for Kṛṣṇa, ānukūlyena... Bhakti means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Kṛṣṇa should be satisfied. That is... It doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa should be satisfied. Just like Kṛṣṇa pretended that He was sick, and many physicians came. He said, "No physician cured Me. If some devotee gives Me the dust of his feet on My head, then I can be cured." So all devotees were asked, and nobody... "Oh! How can I give? My dust on the head of Kṛṣṇa? How it is possible?" Nobody prepared. Then Kṛṣṇa asked that "Go to Vṛndāvana. Just ask the gopīs if they can give. They are My best friends. If they are prepared? Oh, I am very much suffering from headache." So nobody was prepared to go... As soon as gopīs were approached: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is sick. They want, oh, dust of...?" Immediately: "Please take. Please take." She did not care that "We are going to hell by offering our dust of feet on the head of Kṛṣṇa. Never mind. We shall go. Kṛṣṇa will be happy. That's all. Kṛṣṇa will be happy." This is gopī. It doesn't matter the whole world is going to hell, but if Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, a devotee's prepared to do that. That is, that is called uttama bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. You'll find, this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu: anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. To, not to make business with Kṛṣṇa: "I shall be devotee of Kṛṣṇa provided my everything is all right adjusted. I shall not be sinful. I shall not do this. I shall not do... My family will be kept nicely. This..." All these conditions. Just as people go to Vṛndāvana*-all the money distributed. And there are many persons, and the sons and grandsons are all right, that "You send me two hundred rupees per month. And all the two crores of rupees, that is for you. That is for you. That is not for Kṛṣṇa. And simply for my eating, you send me two hundred." There are many in Vṛndāvana. So Kṛṣṇa is also very, that, that "Two crores of rupees you earned, so with hard labor, that is kept for your children. And you have come here with empty hand. And for your food, two hundred rupees." So, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. No. The first principle is that one should be prepared to sacrifice any, everything for Kṛṣṇa. Everything. It doesn't matter-my fate, my honor, my money, my prestige. He doesn't care. Kṛṣṇa must be satisfied. Just (like) Arjuna did. Arjuna didn't like to fight, to kill, on the other side his brother, his grandfather. No. But when he understood, "No, Kṛṣṇa wants it. Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. That's all right." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No consideration for anything else. Simply to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Satisfy Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa's representative. The same thing. That is bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Jñāna. Jñāna, it should be, it should not be tinged by jñāna. This is jñāna. "Oh, I am going to speak lie. I'll go to hell. I am going to kill my grandfather. I'll go to hell." This is called jñāna, knowledge. But the definition is, jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. It should be untouched by jñāna and karma. Untouched. Yes.

*So this is pure bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy... [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. The, the, the gopīs, they're not jñānīs; *they're ordinary village girls. What jñāna they have? No jñāna, no karma. They did not know what is karma, what is sacrifice. No. They did not know. (aside:) All right, you can close. Close this door. So we should, we should be prepared to sacrifice everything, without any consideration of jñāna, karma, yoga. No. We have to see whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. That is perfection. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam: whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. So people have no information what is Kṛṣṇa, and what to speak of satisfying Him. That... Who was speaking? That Girirāja. He was talking to Mr. Motta, every so-called learned scholars, they have no, I mean to say, idea what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, and where to speak of satisfying Him? But the bhakti means that he, a bhakta, is always ready to sacrifice everything to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. But if one has no idea what is Kṛṣṇa, then where is bhakti? For the impersonalist, there cannot be any bhakti because they have no information of Kṛṣṇa. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. And bhakti means satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. If I know the person, if I know what is his nature, then I can know also how to satisfy him. If you have no information of any person, then where is the question of satisfaction? Go on reading.

Pradyumna: "The Lord particularly instructed Rūpa Gosvāmī on the science of Kṛṣṇa conscious..."



*Prabhupāda: So here, here the point is that Sanātana Gosvāmī, Dabira Khāsa, he was so mad after meeting Caitanya Mahāprabhu that he, whatever money he had with the banker, village banker, and even it was sinful to bribe, he didn't care for it. He wanted... He re..., resigned his service as minister, Therefore he was imprisoned. Now to get out of the imprison, prison house, he bribed. He was so much ecstatic. There is a verse-I just now forget*-that this laulyam. This is called laulyam. Laulyam means just like we become very much greedy in achieving some success or receiving something sometimes. We become mad. That is required. Laulyam eka mūlyam. To achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, this ecstatic eagerness or greediness, to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is the only price to achieve success in devotional service. That is the only price. Not money, not anything. Not prestige, not good parentage, not beauty-nothing. Simply this ecstatic, intense desire, "How I shall get Kṛṣṇa?" Then you'll get Kṛṣṇa. He'll take you. That is the example of the gopīs, intense desire. Tatra laulyam eka mūlyam. Now, janma-koṭi, na labhyate janma-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtinaḥ. This ecstatic desire, that "I, this life, I shall get recognition by Kṛṣṇa, that I have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa," this is required. Go on.



Pradyumna: "These teachings of Lord Caitanya to Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda are narrated in our book, *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*. Later, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda elaborated the teachings of the Lord with profound knowledge of revealed scriptures and authoritative references from various Vedic literatures. Śrīla Śrīnivāsa Ācārya describes in his prayers to the six Gosvāmīs that they were all highly learned scholars, not only in Sanskrit but also in foreign languages, such as Persian and Arabian. They very scrutinizingly studied all..."



Prabhupāda: As the English language was compulsory during the British Rule, during Muhammadan's rule, at least all big, big officers, there were many Hindu big officers, they had to learn Arabian and Persian languages. So these Gosvāmīs, because they were ministers, they were learned, highly learned scholars in Arabic and Persian languages. Go on.



Pradyumna: "They very scrutinizingly studied all the Vedic literatures in order to establish the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the authorized principles of Vedic knowledge. The present Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also based on the authority of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. We are therefore generally known as rūpānugas, or followers in the footsteps of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. It is only for our guidance that..."



Prabhupāda: Rūpānuga varāya te. Rūpānuga, followers of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, we follow the instruction... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says in his song:



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhabo śrī yugala*-pīriti.



*Yugala-pīriti, the conjugal love between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, it is not be understood by a third-class man. It is not possible. If one thinks Kṛṣṇa is ordinary human being, Rādhārāṇī as ordinary girl, then it is not possible. One has to understand Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī through the bhakti literature of these Gosvāmīs. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti. Eagerness. "When I shall try to understand yugala-pīriti, the conjugal love of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, through the literature of Rūpa-Raghunātha?" Rūpa-Raghunātha means... There are six Gosvāmīs. Begins from Rūpa Gosvāmī, ends with Raghunātha. Śrīla Rūpa, Sanātana, Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, Śrī Jīva, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, dāsa Raghunātha. There are two Raghunāthas-one Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, one dāsa Raghunātha. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, Rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti kabe hāma bujhabo... To understand Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa and Their love affairs, one has to understand through the literature given by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Just like this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion.



*Pradyumna: "It is only for our guidance that Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī prepared this book, the Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which is now presented in the form of The Nectar of Devotion. Persons engaged in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement may take advantage of this great literature and be very solidly situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhakti means devotional service. Every service has some attractive feature which drives the servitor progressively on and on. Every one of us within this material world..."



*Prabhupāda: Without, without some attractive feature, nobody is interested. Just like we are talking here about Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti, but people in general, they're not very much attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So they do not care to come. There must be some attractive feature. Otherwise... So different people have got different attractive features. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*This attraction for Kṛṣṇa can be developed in the association of devotees, satāṁ prasaṅgāt. Automatically, nobody's attracted for Kṛṣṇa. The whole world is like that. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give these people a chance to associate with devotees and thus become attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is required. Mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Mayy āsakta, to become attracted by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means attractive, Kṛṣṇa. Akasatira-śakti. Kṛṣṇa means attractive. Just like magnetic stone, attractive, naturally the iron... But the iron, if it is rusty, it cannot attract. It cannot attract. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is attractive, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are also attracted by Kṛṣṇa. But because we are now covered by the māyā rust, we are not attracted. This māyā rust has to be polished; then you'll be attracted. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is attractive. Kṛṣṇa means attractive. Go on.



Pradyumna: "Every one of us within this world is perpetually engaged in some sort of service, and the impetus for such service is the pleasure we derive from it."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We cannot work unless we derive some pleasure. Just like the, in the Ahmedabad, the dramatic performance, he was killing animal, and he was attracted by killing, that's all. The butchers... I have seen in Calcutta, while passing through, one hotel man was cutting the throat of a chicken, and the chicken was, after being cut, the throat, it was jumping like anything. You see. And he was laughing. He was taking pleasure. It was for me so horrible, but he was taking very nice pleasure: "This half*-cut chicken is jumping." And his son was crying. And he was asking, "Why you are crying? Why you are crying?" So it is the question of different qualities. One is attracted, and one, he finds that, that they are detracted. Go on.



Pradyumna: "Driven by affection for his wife and children, a family man works day and night. A philanthropist works in the same way for love of the greater family, and the nationalists for the cause of his country and countrymen. That force which drives the philanthropist, the householder and the nationalists is called rasa, or a kind of..."



Prabhupāda: That attractiveness is called rasa, mellow, taste. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "...or a kind of mellow, or relationship whose taste is very sweet. Bhakti*-rasa is a mellow different from the ordinary rasa enjoyed by mundane workers. Mundane workers labor very hard, day and night, in order to relish a certain kind of rasa which is understood as sense gratification. The relish or taste of the mundane rasa does not long endure, and therefore mundane workers are always apt to change their position of enjoyment. A business man is not satisfied by working the whole week; *therefore wanting a change for the weekend, he goes to a place where he tries to forget his business activities. Then, after the weekend is spent in forgetfulness, he again changes his position and resumes his actual business activities. Material engagement means accepting a particular status for some time and then changing it. This position of changing back and forth is technically known as bhoga*-tyāga, which means..."



*Prabhupāda: Bhoga*-tyāga. Bhoga and tyāga. Go on.



Pradyumna: "...which means a position of alternating sense enjoyment and renunciation."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, their position is sense enjoyment. If, by bhoga, they are not satisfied, then tyāga. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Give it, give it up. Again, by tyāga, when he does not find any sense pleasure, then again comes back: All right, come to social service, open hospital, open the school. Why are you coming again? You have given it up, tyāga, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Why you are coming to mithyā again, to open school? That, that is going on. That is going on. Sometimes this is brahma... Jagan mithyā, everything is mithyā, and Brahman is satya. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. But when they cannot get Brahman, cannot realize Brahman, then again come to this bhoga. Bhoga. Pendulum. Bhoga, tyāga, bhoga, tyāga, bhoga, tyāga. You know that pendulum works: (makes noise) kaut kaut kaut kaut. Bhoga, tyāga, bhoga, tyāga. So Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān pari... You have to give up this bhoga dharma and tyāga dharma. Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. You are now engaged in two kinds of dharma. Somebody, karmīs, they are bhoga, bhoga dharmī. They want to enjoy. And tyāgī, they want to renounce this bhoga. So both of these will not help you. Bhoga-tyāga. Then what? Sevā. You have to take the dharma of sevā. That is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-sevā. For Kṛṣṇa, you can accept anything. That is It may appear bhoga. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Pṛthu Mahārāja, they were kings, very opulent kings. Dhruva Mahārāja. So still they were great devotees. Not only ordinary devotees, mahājanas. So this bhoga-tyāga has no meaning. It has no benefit. One has to become devotee. Either in the bhoga field or in the tyāga field, it doesn't matter. Bhoga-tyāga is not required. Required service. That service, it may be on the platform of bhoga or service... Service is required, Kṛṣṇa's service. Kṛṣṇa has to be satisfied. Either in the bhoga platform or tyāga plat... He does not... Devotee's not concerned with bhoga-tyāga. Devotee's concerned with Kṛṣṇa's service.



*So sometimes... Just like there is example. We asked this question, bhoga*-tyāga, to our Guru Mahārāja. So... What is the difference...? Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he left everything for Caitanya Mahāprabhu's service. His lucrative service, minister post and everything, he re... Tyāga. And Rāmānanda Rāya, he was governor. He was governor and gṛhastha, and living very luxuriantly. He's bhoga, he's bhoga platform. Now both of them were devotees of Lord Caitanya. So what is the difference? This question was put. So our Guru Mahārāja replied: Just like a woman. According to our Vedic system, when the husband is out of home, the women is not supposed to dress herself very nicely. Proṣita bhartṛkā. It is called proṣita bhartṛkā. The system was that one should dress herself in such a way that people can understand what is her position-whether she's unmarried, whether she's married, whether she's widow, whether her husband is away, whether she's a pro..., she's a prostitute, everything. By the dress one should understand. "She is, she is widow," "She has got her husband," "Her husband is now away from home." "Oh, she is a prostitute," "She's not married." In this way. Because she's not to be asked. Simply by the dress one can understand. So the proṣita bhartṛkā. She does not dress herself, she lies down on the floor, does not change her clothes very nicely, does not dress the, comb the hair, proṣita bhartṛkā. And the same woman, when her husband is at home, she take twice bath and dresses herself, applies oil and very nice dress, ornaments, and so many things. Women know how to decorate themselves. But the... There is no difference. Her not dressing herself nicely and dressing herself nicely, it may be considered that bhoga and tyāga. But either of these positions is for center is husband. Center is husband. Therefore bhoga-tyāga is not consideration. If for Kṛṣṇa I have to give up everything, I will give up. And if Kṛṣṇa, I'll have to accept everything, I will accept. This is required. Not the position of bhoga-tyāga, but service. If by giving up everything I can serve Kṛṣṇa well, I shall give it up, everything. And if by accepting everything I shall serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely, then I accept everything. That is required. Ānukūlyena.

*Because we have to see whether Kṛṣṇa wants it, Kṛṣṇa wants it. Kṛṣṇa wants Arjuna that "You become victorious in this battlefield and kill all of them." "Yes, I shall do that." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. If Kṛṣṇa would have asked him, "What is this fighting? You give up. Come with Me. Go to the forest," Arjuna would have done that. So our policy is not bhoga*-tyāga. Our policy is satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is pure bhakti.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



That's all right. (end)





721017ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 17, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading) "Every service has some attractive feature which drives the servitor progressively on and on."



Prabhupāda: It is not working?



Pradyumna: [break] "...devotional service. Every service has some attractive feature which drives the servitor progressively on and on. Everyone of us within this world is perpetually engaged in some sort of service and the impetus for such service is the pleasure we derive from it. Driven by affection for his wife and children, a family man works day and night. A philanthropist works in the same way for love of the greater family and a nationalist for the cause of his country and countrymen. That force which drives the philanthropist, the householder and the nationalist is called rasa, or..."



*Prabhupāda: So bhakti is explained, "Bhakti is some active service." It is not a sentiment. And service means work. Not like the karmīs. Karmī or anyone who is working, he is working with some taste. Just like the example is given here: A householder is working day and night. Unless he has got some taste... Suppose one has got wife and children. So to maintain them he has to work very hard. But there is some pleasure in serving the wife and children. This is crude example. Similarly, bhakti means service with some taste. Svādu svādu pade pade. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, svādu svādu pade pade. The more you serve, the more you relish taste. Without relishing taste, nobody can render devotional service. It is practical. Svādu svādu pade pade. In every step... Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah. So materially, he was getting honor, money, and therefore he was attached. This is also crude example. So he resigned from the government post and he joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So unless he tasted something better, how could he give up his government service? There must be some taste. So that is being explained here. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "That force which derives... That force which drives the philanthropist, the householder and the nationalist is called rasa, or a kind of mellow, or relationship, whose taste is very sweet. Bhakti*-rasa is a mellow different from the ordinary rasa enjoyed by mundane workers. Mundane workers labor very hard day and night in order to relish a certain kind of rasa which is understood as sense gratification. The relish or taste of the mundane rasa does not long endure and therefore mundane workers are always apt to change their position of enjoyment. A businessman is not satisfied by working the whole week. Therefore, wanting a change for the weekend, he goes to a place where he tries to forget his business activities. Then, after the weekend is spent in forgetfulness, he again changes his position and resumes his actual business activities. Material engagement means accepting a particular status for some time and then changing it. This position of changing back and forth is technically known as bhoga-tyāga, which means a position of alternating sense enjoyment and renunciation."



*Prabhupāda: The material world, because everything is temporary, so sometimes when we are fed up with material activities, we stop to do it and become a renouncer. Bhoga*-tyāga. "Grapes are sour." You know the story. A jackal entered into a vine orchard, and it was very high. It began to jump to get the grapes, but when he failed, he said, "Oh, these grapes are sour. It is nonsense." (laughter) The karmīs are like that, that they work very hard, but they cannot relish any permanent happiness. That is not possible. Therefore they give up. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. They give up these worldly activities as false. Jagan mithyā. But they do not relish anything. Actually they do not relish what is Brahma-sukha. Therefore again they fall down. Many... The jñānī sannyāsīs, they give up this world as jagat mithyā, "This world is false." They take sannyāsa. Then, after working for some time, they again take to political activities, philanthropic activities. They see that "The people are suffering for want of education, for want of food. So let me engage in providing food, shelter, education." But this education, food problem is there in the material world. The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, if they think that this world is false, why he is agitated by the sufferings of the world? It is false. But the thing is that in the spiritual field, because they have no engagement, advanced engagement... (aside:) Come this side. Or do it in this. From the back. (Hindi)



*So this so*-called sannyāsī, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā... [Break] ...in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tato patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. These ...(pause, fumbling with the microphone, Hindi) Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagat is not mithyā. To the Vaiṣṇava, to the devotee, we cannot accept that this jagat, this world is false. No. How it can be false? Suppose you enter in a very beautiful garden, very nicely trees, (indistinct) so many nice flowers, building. Everything is, they are nice. The proprietor of the garden takes you to show you. And if you say, "Oh, it is all mithyā," then how much depressed he becomes, just see. "I brought this friend to show the beauty of this garden, and he says it is mithyā." Similarly, we won't want to depress Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) That is not our business. Kṛṣṇa has created this nice world. Everything is very nice. The sun is rising just in exact time. It is setting in exact time. The moon is rising. The seasons are changing. And we are getting nice food, nice fruit, nice flowers. So we are not so de..., I mean to say, depressing agent. We won't discourage Kṛṣṇa. Why? Kṛṣṇa has created this nice world. How can I say it is mithyā? It is the by-product of Kṛṣṇa's energy. So Kṛṣṇa's energy cannot be false. It is eternal. Kṛṣṇa is eternal. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that this material world, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhir mana eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. "These are eight kinds of separated energy of Me, Kṛṣṇa." So Kṛṣṇa's energy... Kṛṣṇa is truth. So Kṛṣṇa's energy is also truth. Because form truth, false cannot come. If Kṛṣṇa is truth, this energy is also truth. But it is not false. Therefore we do not accept this Māyāvādī theory that the world is false, jagan mithyā. We say that Brahman is satya, and this world is also satya.

*The difference is that a devotee relishes a particular type of mellow, rasa, in this material world. But the, those who are not devotees, they do not feel any relish from this material world. They feel for some time, but when it becomes stale in their taste, they say, "It is false." Just like the same example: The jackal first of all tried to get the grapes, jumping, jumping, and when it was a failure, he said, "Oh, the grapes are sour. I don't require." So except devotee... The nondevotees, the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they actually do not relish the sweetness of the creation of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Bhāgavata says, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninaḥ. "So persons who are thinking that they have become liberated by their own ways," ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ tvay asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32], "actually they have not tasted the Absolute Truth. Therefore their intelligence is not yet purified." Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Anyone who has not reached to the point of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, it is to be understood that his intelligence is in, still incomplete. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Actually one who is wise-actually, not falsely-then after many, many births of struggling in karma, jñāna, yoga, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. When he actually becomes wise. Jñānavān.

*There is a Bengali verse, kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura? Yes. Unless one is very wise and intelligent, he cannot become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. The first*-class intelligent class of men surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he replied to Kṛṣṇa, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73], "Yes, I'll do." In the beginning, he was posing himself as very nice man, renounced. "My dear Kṛṣṇa, the other side is my brothers, my grandfather, my teacher, Dronācārya, my nephews, my son-in-laws, all my relatives. So I do not wish to fight. Let them enjoy." That was Arjuna's decision, in the beginning. And thus Bhagavad-gītā was taught to him. But after teaching Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa inquired from him, "Now what is your position? Your illusion is over or not? What you have decided to do now?" He said, "Yes, my illusion is over." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. "What You are saying, I shall act." This is Bhagavad-gītā understanding. Sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Then Arjuna went against his first decision. In the beginning he was nonviolent. But he changed. He become violent. Violent means he fought. He was a warrior. He was kṣatriya. His business was to fight when there is necessity. But in the beginning he was illusioned. Kārpaṇya-doṣo upahata-svabhāvaḥ [Bg. 2.7]. Svabhāvaḥ, by nature, he was fighter, warrior, but kārpaṇya-doṣa, being miserly, upahata svabhāvaḥ, he's going, he was going against his nature. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he was posed in his real nature. So... [break]

*...is not going against the nature. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This is the instruction given by Lord Brahmā and accepted by Lord Caitanya. Sthāne sthitāḥ. "Let everyone remain in his position." A brāhmaṇa... Position means, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. According to different qualities-goodness, passion, ignorance-there are different divisions of the society, cātur-varṇyam. The brāhmaṇa. The brāhmaṇa means most learned. Most learned means one who knows the Absolute Truth, brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. So there must be a section of the learned. There must be a section of the administrators, kṣatriyas. There must be a section, productive. (aside:) It is... It is disturbing me... And there must be a section, worker. So cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The society must be divided... By natural way, it is divided: the intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. And they should cooperate. Then the society's perfect. The same example: Just like in your body you have got divisions, the head division, the arms division, the belly division and the leg division. It is not that leg is less important than the head. But leg is... Head is most important. Without head, the arms, the belly, or the leg cannot work. So there should be cooperation. But the division must be there. This is the vision of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. They do not say it is false. They utilize everything for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Most scientific and authorized movement. Trying to place people in his original, constitutional position and cooperate for the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*And actually, when we relish some mellow, rasa, that is called bhakti*-rasa. We are trying to explain Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu by Rūpa Gosvāmī. So this is bhakti-rasa. The leg is serving the body under some rasa. The hand is serving the body under some rasa. The brain is serving the body under some rasa. So similarly... That is natural division, throughout the whole universe, anywhere. And because the whole universe is being carried on by the three modes of material nature, goodness, passion, ignorance... And there are mixture also. There are three: goodness, passion and ignorance. Just like there are three colors, yellow, red... (aside:) You stand on... You disturbing... Yellow, red and blue. And those who are artists, they mix with three colors and it becomes nine. And again, the nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. In this way, all these divisions, different forms of living entities, they are being conducted under some modes of material nature, either pure or mixture. And therefore we find so many varieties. (aside:) Why don't you put...? Yes. So many varieties of living entities. 8,400,000 species of life, forms. 8,400,000.

*jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi

*sthāvarā lakṣa*-viṁśati

*kṛmayo rudra*-saṅkhyakāḥ

*pakṣiṇāṁ daśa*-lakṣaṇam



*In this way, there are 8,400,000 species of life and Kṛṣṇa claims: sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ [Bg. 14.4]. "All these forms, in different species of life, their mother is this material nature and I am the seed-giving father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. So Kṛṣṇa... (Aside:) What you are doing with this...? This fly is disturbing me, and what you are doing? [break]



*...claims everyone His son. Kṛṣṇa says, does not say that "The Indians are My son, or the Hindus are My son." No, Kṛṣṇa does not say. So Kṛṣṇa cannot be a sectarian God. God is one. God is for Hindus. God is for Muslims, God is for any other religious sect. And the definition of religion is that the law given by God. That's all. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like law means the code or the order given by the state. You cannot manufacture law at home. When the state gives something to the citizens, that "You must follow this," that is law. It may be very insignificant thing, but it is law. Just like when we go on the street, the law is, in, in this country, the law is "Keep to the left." In other countries the law is "Keep to the right." Yes. Germa... In America it is "Keep to the right."

Guest (Indian man): Not so in China and Russia, I believe.



*Prabhupāda: There are different. You cannot say that "I am accustomed to drive my car from the left side. Why shall I go to the right?" No, the law is there. You have to abide by the law. Similarly, religion means the law given by Kṛṣṇa, by God. That is religion. You cannot manufacture religion. Kṛṣṇa... Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Therefore real religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So actually, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is real religion. Everyone should follow this. Then he will be saved. Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi.



*People suffer out of ignorance. That is called pāpa, sin. Any criminal... Mostly, he does not know the real law. He commits something unknowingly, by ignorance, and he becomes a subject of criminal punishment. Therefore ignorance is sinful life. Ignorance. So people should be enlightened from ignorance. And that is real religion. One should be enlightened himself, and one should enlighten others also. That is the mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra. Not the cats and dogs, animals. Manuṣya. On the land of Bhāratavarṣa, one who has taken his birth as a human being... This point is very important.

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' koro paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Become... One can become successful in the mission of his life in India. Because the India, the real knowledge, Vedic knowledge, is there. All the sages and great personalities of India, Vyāsadeva... He compiled all these Vedas for the enlightenment of the whole human society. So especially those who are born in India as human beings, they should take advantage of this knowledge. They should not manufacture knowledge. The knowledge is already there. Simply one has to take it. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā. Everything is there already. We have to take it, accept it, and apply it practically in life, and distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. This is the mission of India.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not sectarian, neither unauthorized. Because it is based on the Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. We don't interpret Bhagavad-gītā. If I interpret Bhagavad-gītā, then there is no authority of Bhagavad-gītā. The same example. Suppose state law. You cannot interpret. Then what is the value of the state law? You are a layman. You cannot interpret Bhagavad-gītā. Any Vedic knowledge, you cannot interpret. Then there is no authority of the Vedic knowledge. For example... We give it very constantly. Just like cow dung. Cow dung is the stool of an animal. But Vedas says, "It is pure." The Vedas, in one place, says that "Stool of an animal is impure." We accept it. As soon as we touch stool, even my own stool. I have to take bath immediately to purify myself. But the Vedas says that the stool of cow is pure. We take it to the Deity room and smear it. This is Vedic followers. No interpretation. When it is stated in the Vedas, it is true, fact, perfect, without any defect. That is called Vedic knowledge. Not that interpreting to my convenience, I am, I become a Vedantist. No. That is not. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching that you accept what Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. You have manufactured so many things for the peace and prosperity of the people. But you have failed. Take Kṛṣṇa's word and you'll be happy.

*So the more you be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. "Always think of Me." Man-manā. Mad-bhakto. "You just become My devotee." It is very simple thing. To become Kṛṣṇa conscious is possible by everyone. And actually, it is happening. We are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world. So these boys, they're coming from different religions, different countries, different nationalities, different faiths. But actually, because they're accepting Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], they're happy. There is no difficulty. And people are accepting it. As if just they were ready to accept this cult. This is our experience. Any of our students can be questioned why he has accepted this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. He'll explain. So although Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a movement by any particular person, nation or religion, but still, because Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, Lord Caitanya appeared in India... And Lord Caitanya says that anyone who has taken birth as a human being in the land of Bhāratavarṣa must take the responsibility of spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for the benefit of all world.

*It is not a question of any personal religion or personal ambition or something manufactured by some imperfect sense enjoyer. It is authorized because Bhagavad*-gītā is authorized. Bhagavad-gītā is accepted... First of all, He was, it was accepted by Arjuna in toto. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava [Bg. 10.14]. "My dear Kṛṣṇa, whatever You are saying, I accept it in toto, without any interpretation, without any rejection." Somebody says, somebody may say, "Arjuna was Kṛṣṇa's friend. To praise Him, he might have said like that." No. Arjuna immediately gives evidence that "It is not that I am accepting but you are accepted as, as such by such great personalities as, like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita." He gives authority. So that was five thousand years ago. Later on, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, even Śaṅkarācārya. We Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, they differ little with Śaṅkarācārya. Impersonalist and personalist. But Śaṅkarācārya even, even though he was impersonalist, he accepted Kṛṣṇa in his commentary on Bhagavad-gītā. Sai bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt about it. By all authorities. And Kṛṣṇa Himself says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. "There is no more superior authority than Me."

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Those who are actually budhās... Budhās means learned. So they know Kṛṣṇa is the original person. And it is confirmed by Brahmā in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara means controller. So everyone can become īśvara. Here, our minister Saheb is present. He's īśvara. Īśvara means controller. He is controller of a department. Similarly, there are many ministers in our country and other countries. Many presidents. They are īśvaras. And a common man, he is also īśvara. He's controlling his family. At least he's controlling his dog, cat. So everyone is īśvara. Just like the modern theory is going on. "Everyone is God." That's all right. God means īśvara, controller. But there are different qualities of controller. I may be controller of my disciples, a few dozen or few hundred. But there are controllers, millions. They are controlling millions. Therefore my control and his control is not equal. Therefore you find out one controller of another. Everyone is relative controller. He controls and he becomes controlled. Nobody's absolute controller. Just like our Minister Saheb. He's controller, but he's also controlled. So when you come to the point, if you find out some person that he's simply controller, not controlled, He's Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is simply controller, not controlled, He's Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is simply controller. When Kṛṣṇa was present on this planet... You see the history of His life. He simply controlled. He never became controlled. He was controller. Therefore the verdict of the śāstra, Vedic literature, is that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ.



*But the impersonalists will say, "The Supreme Controller is not a person." He's a person. But Brahmā says, "No, He's a person." Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Vigraha means person. Mūrti. But He's not ordinary person. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Sat cit ānanda. His form is made of eternity, bliss, and knowledge. Our form, this form, is not eternity. It will die. It will be finished. Why my form? Even Brahmā's form. Although he will live for many millions of years. Just like one day, twelve hours, is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Brahmā's one day, twelve hours, he... These four yugas, forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand. That is Brahmā's twelve days, uh, twelve hours. Now we can calculate his life. He'll live for one hundred years. So his twelve hours is millions of years. So still, he will die. Anything in this material world, it will not stay. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Everything will be finished. Therefore even Brahmā's body is not eternal. What to speak of my body, your body, ant's body, his body... Sat. Sat means "that exists". Oṁ tat sat.

*And cit. Cit means knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa's knowledge is perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, vedāham, vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. "I know past, present, and future." When Kṛṣṇa was questioned by Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa said that "Many millions of years ago, first of all, I spoke this science of Bhagavad*-gītā or bhakti-yoga, to the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate proktaṁ vivasvān manave prāha. "I spoke, first of all, to Vivasvān, the Sun god." The Sun god's name is there, Vivasvān. Then Kṛṣṇa was questioned by Arjuna that "Kṛṣṇa, You and me, we are born very recently. How is that You say that You spoke to Sun god? That is millions and millions of years ago." So Kṛṣṇa answered, "Yes, I said. I remember. But you do not remember. You were also present." Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, they're eternal friends. So whenever Kṛṣṇa appears, Arjuna also appears. Kṛṣṇa has got His associates. Arjuna is one of the associates. But the, that is the difference between living entity and God. God remembers and the living entity does not remember. He forgets. And another conclusion is: Why Kṛṣṇa remembers and why the living entity does not remember? The reason is that living entity changes the body, Kṛṣṇa does not change the body. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. When Kṛṣṇa appears, He appears in His original body, but because He looks like ordinary man, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11], the rascals and fools, they think Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man, human being.

*So bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu is to taste the mellow of serving Kṛṣṇa. That is the science of serving Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we have named this book, "Nectar of Devotion." It is summary study of bhakti-rasa, the mellow, the transcendental mellow which one can taste. Everyone is tasting. Otherwise he cannot work. So yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever engagement you may have, kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam, do it for Kṛṣṇa." Don't take the result yourself. Give it to Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll taste the rel..., relish the mellow, transcendental mellow, bhakti-rasa. And then you'll be happy.

*Just like about the Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, who was executing his devotional service on this spot... They were ministers. And they gave up everything. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. Maṇḍala-pati. Maṇḍala-pati means leaders. The leader of the group, maṇḍala-pati. Just like there is rastra-pati. Similarly they were rastra-patis, maṇḍala-pati, but tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati... Because they were minister, their friendly circles were big, big zamindars, administrators. But they gave up their company. Tyakvtā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇ... Not one, two, but many. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Very insignificant. "Oh, what is this? Give up." Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Became very poor mendicants, accepted torn cloth. Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, here, in Vṛndāvana, they were living underneath one tree, one night. Such vairāgya, renunciation. But how they were living? A very rich man, coming to the lowest standard of living...

*We have seen, practically. In Calcutta, Mr. C.R. Das. he was earning, say, about fifty years ago, fifty thousand, sixty thousand rupees per month. But on Congress resolution, he gave up his practice and practically he had no income. In one meeting, he was asked by somebody... Everyone thought that he's very big, rich man. Somebody asked him to give him, them some subscription. So C.R. Das admitted that "Now I have no income, by my party, Congress Party, they gave me five hundred rupees per month for my expenditures. So I give you everything." So... Because that was his habit. If anyone would approach him, ask him something, the day's income he'll give him, immediately. But he could not live more than one year. He could not tolerate so much renouncement. Because that was material. But these Gosvāmīs, they gave us their ministerial posts, opulent posts and became mendicants. How they lived? Go... That is stated. Gopī*-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau-sada. They were merged in the ocean of the love affairs of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this mendicantism, it was external. They were enjoying better things. So unless you enjoy better thing, you cannot give up inferior thing.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best. Anyone, individually or collectively, you take it. You'll enjoy real life. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). That is real life. And actually, people are accepting. All over the world. Say, four days ago I was in Manila. That was the, my first visit and all young men... In the hotel we held one meeting. The hotel capacity was about eight hundred men. Still, it was overflooded. And they liked this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, chanting, dancing. So nice. So it has been proven that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be accepted in any part of the world. This is India's culture. Why not distribute? Why the government is not interested? That is my presentation. If you, India wants to be glorified, then she must give something. Not simply begging. "Give me grains, give me money, give me weapons. Give me engineer." Give something. That is my proposal. Then India will be glorified. "Oh, India has got something to give, not to take only, like beggars." I was questioned in Berkeley University by some Indian students, "Swamijī, what this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will benefit? What this saṅkīrtana? We want technology." So I replied, "Yes, you have come to learn here technology, but I have come here to teach you. Not to learn. But to teach. And they are learning." So according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, every Indian can become a teacher provided he accepts the teachings of their predecessor ācāryas? Otherwise they'll remain beggars. That is my proposal. Thank you very much. (end)



721018ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 18, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading) "...cannot steadily remain either in sense enjoyment or in renunciation. Change is going on perpetually, and we cannot be happy in either state because of our eternal constitutional position. Sense gratification does not endure for long and it is therefore called capala*-sukha, or flickering happiness. For example, an ordinary family man who works very hard day and night and it successful in giving comforts to the members of his family thereby relishes a kind of mellow, but his whole advancement of material happiness immediately terminates along with his body as soon as his life is over. Death is therefore taken as the representative of God for the atheistic class of men. The devotee realizes the presence of God by devotional service, whereas the atheist realizes the presence of God in the shape of death. At death, everything is finished, and one has to begin a new chapter of life in a new situation, perhaps higher or lower than the last one."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very important point. The atheist class men, they say, "Can you show me God?" There are statements of atheist class, or sannyāsī even, that he demanded his spiritual master "Whether you can show me God?" So God cannot be seen by such demand. In the śāstras it is said, ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Śrī Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, by His form, by His pastimes, by His paraphernalia, by His qualities. Anything about Kṛṣṇa is non-different. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name, it is the same. There is no difference. In the materialistic view, there is difference between the substance and the name. Just like water. If you are thirsty, simply if I chant, "Water, water, water," it will not quench your thirst. You require the substance, water. So similarly, a, a person's photograph or a statue is different from the person. If there is a photograph of a certain gentleman and if you want to do business with the photograph, it is not possible. You'll have to seek for the actual person. But in case of Kṛṣṇa, it is not like that. Kṛṣṇa, the person, and Kṛṣṇa's name, Hare Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. It is not that we are chanting "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" and this Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is different. No. Nāma rūpe kṛṣṇa avatāra. The name of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa, the person, identical.



*Just like we are worshiping the form of Rādhā*-Govinda, Rādhā-Mādhava, Rādhā-Dāmodara. So this form, atheists will say that "This is statue." But a theist person, who knows Kṛṣṇa, he will see this form of Kṛṣṇa not different from the original person, Kṛṣṇa. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He entered the Jagannātha temple, He immediately fainted, "Here is My Lord." Others who are going in the Jagannātha temple, they are seeing something made of wood. Therefore śāstra forbids, arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhir sa eva narakaḥ. Arcye śilā-dhīr. Arca-mūrti, the form worshiped in the temple, if somebody thinks it is made of wood, it is made of stone, that is nārakī-buddhiḥ. No devotee will say. Only the nondevotee, atheist class of men will say it, that "They are worshiping wood. They are worshiping stone." But a devotee knows that His worshipable Lord is present here personally. It is a question of revising, of reforming this perception. The whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is reforming or purifying the senses.

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



Bhakti means to purify the senses.



*premāñjana cchurita*-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yaṁ śyāmasundaranam acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*Real devotee, santaḥ, saintly persons, their eyes are purified by the ointment of love of Godhead. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. They are seeing Kṛṣṇa or his worshipable God... Kṛṣṇa has many forms. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Kṛṣṇa has His form as Lord Rāmacandra, as Varāha, as Kūrma, as Nṛsiṁha. Ananta-koṭi. Innumerable forms He has got. All of them are Kṛṣṇa. So a devotee, on account of his eyes being smeared with the ointment of love of God, he sees Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours within his heart. That is the vision of the devotee. Atheist class will say, "Where is God?" Because he has no eyes to see the God. But a theist class or a devotee, he sees God, or Kṛṣṇa, twenty-four hours. He does not see anything else. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, sthāvara jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. A devotee, mahā-bhāgavata, highly advanced devotee, he sees trees, but he does not see the tree. He sees Kṛṣṇa. How? Has he gone mad? No. Actually he sees. But what is this tree? The tree, outwardly, is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Your body, my body, the trees's body, the dog's body, the cat's body. What are these bodies? The bodies are made of the external, material energy. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. The material elements, they are simply Kṛṣṇa's external energy. So as soon as a devotee sees anything material, he sees immediately the energy of Kṛṣṇa, and along with the energy of Kṛṣṇa, he sees immediately Kṛṣṇa. Reactory. He actually. With reference to the context.



*Just like you are reading some portion of a book. As soon as there is some reference, immediately you see the person. Suppose you are phoning, talking on telephone with somebody. As soon as hear the body, as soon as hear his sound, immediately you see your friend. It is not very difficult to understand. Simply one has to know the person or one has, must have the knowledge. So one who has got knowledge, perfect knowledge of the constitution of this material body, he does not see the body. He sees Kṛṣṇa. So anything, sthāvara jaṅgama... Sthāvara means moving, and jaṅgama... Sthāvara means "not moving," and jaṅgama means "moving". There are two classes of living entities. Some of them are moving and some of them not moving. So a devotee either sees a living entity moving or a living entity's not moving, he does not see the outward covering, but he sees within, the spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and without, the body, the material body, he sees Kṛṣṇa's energy. And because everything is in reference with Kṛṣṇa, therefore he sees Kṛṣṇa only and nothing else. So this is the statement in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Sthāvara jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. He does not see the external form, but he sees the actual essence of the person and therefore he sees Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is confirmed,

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Paṇḍitāḥ, those who are actually paṇḍitas, learned, knowledge, they see everyone on the equal level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaye-sampanne. He sees one very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, and sees a cow, sees one elephant, sees one dog, sees one dog eater, the lowest of the human kind, but he's sama-darśinaḥ. He sees everyone of them as spirit soul, the body as Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore he has no different vision for different persons. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāh..., paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. This is called Brahman realization vision. Brahman realization, God.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*This is brahma*-bhūtaḥ vision. A paṇḍita. Actually, when one becomes learned scholar, he becomes Brahman realized. That is the meaning of brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa is one who has realized the Brahman.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So before beginning of pure devotional life, one must be Brahman realized. That is pure bhakti. That is actual, actually the platform of devotional service. Means one must be above the brahminical qualifications, a Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava... Mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. One who attains the devotional service, parām, parā bhakti... There are three stages of devotional life. Arcye śilā-dhīr...



arcāyām eva haraye

yat pūjāṁ śraddhayehate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ



*A person who is worshiping the Deity in the temple with all regulative principles, arcāyām eva haraye yat pūjāṁ śraddhaya, with devotion, he's executing the service, but he does not know how to respect a devotee, na tad bhakteṣu... He has concentrated his mind on the arca*-mūrti, the Deity form of the Lord within the temple... That is very nice. But if he does not now how to worship a devotee, na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, and he does not know how to elevate other persons, sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ, such kind of devotee is to be considered as material, prākṛtaḥ. Gradually, one has to become aprākṛtaḥ. So there are different stages of devotional service. Everything is explained in the scriptures.



*Now our point was that how to see Kṛṣṇa in everything? Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. By these blunt, material senses, we cannot appreciate, or we can see, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It has to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One must be relieved from all designations. So long one thinks that "I am Hindu. I am Christian. I am Muhammadan. I am this. I am brāhmaṇa. I am śūdra. I am kṣatriya. I am man. I am woman. I am black. I am white." These are all designations. One has to become free from all these designations. That is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. If you see God, Kṛṣṇa, from the Hindu angle of vision, if you see God from Christian angle of vision, then you cannot see God. That is not seeing God. You have to become freed from all these designations. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us, nāhaṁ vipra na ca nara-patir na yatir vā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not a kṣatriya. I am not a vaiśya. I am not a śūdra. I am not a sannyāsī. I am not a gṛhastha. I am not a brahmacārī." Then "What You are?" Because within these eight categories, we are living. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I don't belong to all these categories." Then "What You are, Sir?" Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa, the maintainer of the gopīs."

So unless you come to this stage, free from all designations, he cannot serve Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa accepts service from the devotee. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa is not beggar, that He has come to your place and asking some food from you. No. But Kṛṣṇa accepts your food, provided you are a devotee. That is Kṛṣṇa. You can offer Kṛṣṇa patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. You do not require to become very rich man. The poorest of the poor can offer Kṛṣṇa something. What is that? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. A little flower, a little fruit, a little leaf and little water. Everyone can collect a little flower, a little water. And from any part of the world. Not that Kṛṣṇa can be worshiped in India. Kṛṣṇa can be worshiped in Vṛndāvana. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is Vṛndāvana. Otherwise, if Kṛṣṇa is not worshiped, that is not Vṛndāvana. So how Kṛṣṇa is worshiped? Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26], "Anyone who offers Me these things with bhakti, with devotion, with love," tad aham aśnāmi, "then I eat it." Not that an abhakta will offer something and Kṛṣṇa will accept. No.

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

tat paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*This is the definition of bhakti in the, in the Nārada Pañcaratra, that when one is freed from the designations, sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam... "Sir, I am a brāhmaṇa. Therefore I can offer You something." No. Kṛṣṇa is not exposed to anyone except to the devotees. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Kṛṣṇa is covered by yogamāyā. He's not revealed to any, anyone, except to the devotees. There are many other instructions in the śāstras. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. That I explained. Kṛṣṇa is not approachable by our these blunt senses, material senses, with designation. Unless one is freed from all designations. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructs, "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a śūdra, I'm not a kṣatriya, I'm not a brahmacārī, I'm not a gṛhastha, but I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa, who is the maintainer of the gopīs." Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsa [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. So Kṛṣṇa is not visible to the atheist class of men. Kṛṣṇa's only visible to the devotees. And the devotee sees Kṛṣṇa and nothing but Kṛṣṇa, and twenty-four hours. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is... A devotee sees Kṛṣṇa while he's worshiping only, and other times, he's not seeing. No. He's seeing twenty-four hours. But the atheists, they ask, "Can you show me Kṛṣṇa? Can you show me God?" The reply is, "Have you got the eyes to see Kṛṣṇa?" It is not so easy, Kṛṣṇa. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,



*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'pyasti yat*-prapadya-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*Govinda. Panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo. Pantha means road. If you walk over the path of Kṛṣṇa... Suppose Kṛṣṇa, there is Kṛṣṇaloka. Above this material universe, there is another spiritual sky, paravyoma. It is called paravyoma. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakta 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature. As this is material nature, there is spiritual nature. And in that spiritual nature there are innumerable spiritual planets. They are called Vaikuṇṭha planets. And the highest Vaikuṇṭha planet is called Kṛṣṇaloka, or Goloka Vṛndāvana. This Vṛndāvana is replica of that original Vṛndāvana. When Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet or within this universe, He comes in this Vṛndāvana. This is called Bhauma-Vṛndāvana. Of course, there is no difference between Bhauma-Vṛndāvana and Paravyoma-Vṛndāvana. So if we want to see Kṛṣṇa, then we must be freed from designations. That is the process. Not only designations, but from all kinds of desires.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*These are the definitions given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. We Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, Madhva*-Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, we are followers of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī and others, Ṣaḍ-Gosvāmī.



*śrī*-rūpa-sanātana-bhaṭṭa-raghunātha

*śrī*-jīva-gopāla-bhaṭṭa-dāsa-raghunātha



ei chay gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa

*tān*-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās



*Unless one has followed strictly the path of the Ṣaḍ*-Gosvāmīs, we cannot accept him as guru. Because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, ei chay gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa. One who has followed strictly the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī, of course, he lived very simply, mendicant. A small loincloth and simple underneath a tree. But simply by imitating his loincloth one does not become Rūpa Gosvāmī. One has to follow the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī. Then he's called rūpānuga. Unless you become rūpānuga, you cannot understand the Gauḍīya philosophy. Ei chay gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa. So this is called paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. If you follow the path of Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī... Not that simply by imitating his cloth. You must follow in principle all the rules and regulations given by...



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*This is the definition given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī in his Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So one must be freed from all material desires. You cannot earn your livelihood by showing the Deity. This was not the business of Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī did not do any business by showing the Deity. Therefore you have to follow strictly the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. Then you become Rūpānuga Vaiṣṇavas. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "One who is following the principles of the Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, tāra mui dāsa, I accept him as spiritual master." Tān-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās.



ei chay gosāi yabe braje kailā vāsa

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nitya-līlā karilā prakāśa



*So rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nitya-līlā karilā prakāśa. By the, writing so many books, hundreds of books, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, especially Jīva Gosvāmī... Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. They wrote, they wrote books for the benefit of the whole world. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. They did not write books only for the Hindus or for the persons who are in India or in Vṛndāvana. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. There were very, very expert. You'll find in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, wherever Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has stated something, immediately he has given reference from the śāstras. He did not manufacture anything which is against the śāstras. That is Rūpānuga, Rūpānuga Vaiṣṇava. So in order to see God, in order to serve God, we have to follow. Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he has said,



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bhujhaba se yugala*-pīriti



*Rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti. Unless one becomes very, very much eager to follow the path of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he cannot understand what is the love affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Without following the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī, if we wants to understand what is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, then we shall understand a boy, ordinary boys' and girls' affairs. That is not Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Do not try to understand Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa with these blunt eyes and senses; try to understand through the instructions of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī.



*śrī*-rūpa-sanātana-bhaṭṭa-raghunātha

*śrī*-jīva-gopāla-bhaṭṭa-dāsa-raghunātha



*So this is the process. Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which we have translated into English, Nectar of Devotion, is very important book. It is the science of devotional service. If you want to be engaged in devotional service, then you must read the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. And then we shall be able to see God. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38], by following the rules and regulations and the direction laid down in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, we shall be gradually elevated to the platform of loving God. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī therefore says, ādau śraddhā. Ādau śraddhā. First of all, faith. That is the basic principle. And this word, śraddhā, has been described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Kavirāja Gosvāmī,



śraddhā śābde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya

*kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya



*This is called śraddhā, that "If I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then all business of my life is done." This is called śraddhā. Not that sometimes I worship Lord Kṛṣṇa, sometimes Lord Śiva, sometimes goddess Kali, sometimes this, sometimes that. That is not śraddhā. Śraddhā means sudṛḍha niścaya viśvāsa. What is that viśvāsa? Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya. If I worship only Kṛṣṇa, then all other duties are performed. Automatically. The example is just like if you pour water on the root of the tree, the transmission of the water is automatically done to the other branches, leaves, and everything. If you supply food to the stomach, then the energy is distributed automatically to the eyes, ears and other parts of the body. Similarly, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa surrender and worship Him, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], then you worship all other demigods. You don't have to exert yourself for worshiping other demigods. That is automatically done. Therefore the whole concentration should be given to Kṛṣṇa.



*That is the specific significance of Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana, simply Kṛṣṇa worshipable. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa*-tanayaḥ. That is the vision of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that ārādhya, worshipable Deity, worshipable God, is vrajeśa-tanayaḥ, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. As Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, similarly His place, Vṛndāvana, is also worshipable. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū vargeṇa kalpitā. There is no more better form of worship than it was conceived by the damsels of Vraja. Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. And the book, authoritative literature, to understand Kṛṣṇa and His service is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrī-caitanya-mahaprabhor matam idam. This is the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is exactly following the principles of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha upadeśa.

*So the atheist class, they cannot see Kṛṣṇa. They ca... They'll see Kṛṣṇa at a certain time. What is that? That is ex..., described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. When there will be death, when death will take away all our possessions, at that time, we can see Kṛṣṇa. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu was atheist. He could not see God. He was Godless. But at the last, he saw God in the form of Nṛsiṁhadeva. That is also, being father of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Otherwise it was not possible. So God is everywhere. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ... [break] That's all. Otherwise you can see God everywhere. He is within the atom, what to speak of other things. Simply you have to smear your eyes with the ointment of love of God, Kṛṣṇa. And if you want to come to that stage, then you have to follow the instructions given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): If one makes arrangement in this lifetime for others to render service to Kṛṣṇa, but if the whole purpose of his arrangement is to simply maintain his family and if he's still attached to sense gratification, at the time of death, even though he has attraction for sense gratification, will he attain a higher birth in a family of Vaiṣṇavas in his next life or anything like this?



*Prabhupāda: No. Those who are engaged in devotional service, if they cannot finish their business in this life, they are given chance next life to get birth in a Vaiṣṇava family. Not all. Yoga*-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjayate. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe [Bg. 6.41]. Those who could not finish, yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ, bhakti-yoga, if he falls down while executing, he has no loss because, even if he falls down, his life, next life is guaranteed in a nice family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe. Either in rich family or in a devotee's family. So both ways, he gets the chance of having a human form of life, and if he's born in a Vaiṣṇava family, naturally he becomes Vaiṣṇava. And if he takes his birth in a rich family, he has no problem for his bread. So he can exclusively engage himself in devotional service. Provided he gets the assistance of a bona fide spiritual master. So your answer... Is that question, question is answered?



Devotee (1): Yes. But if someone has a temple and he maintains a Deity for his personal sense gratification...



*Prabhupāda: That, that's all right. He is kaniṣṭha*-adhikārī. So gradually he'll be elevated to the madhyama-adhikārī and then uttama-adhikārī. So in Kṛṣṇa's service, either he rubs this way or that way, there is no loss. It is only giving. That is the statement of Nārada. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi, ko vā āptaḥ abhūd amuṣya kim [SB 1.5.17]. Even one falls down, there is no loss because he'll get a chance next life to begin from the point where he failed. So there is no loss. Whereas others, because they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, simply worked very nicely, they, they, they are fruitless life. There is no gain. Ko vārtha āpto abhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. Even if one executes his occupational duties very nicely, because he's not devotee, what is the gain of his life? He does not gain anything. These are the version in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yes?



Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the highest principle of the Gosvāmī's, by following which one will be sure of attaining love of Śrī Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī is controller of the sense, controller of the mind, controller of the tongue, controller of the genital, controller of anger. So many things he has to control, then he becomes gosvāmī. Vāco*-vegaṁ krodha-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegaṁ manaso-vegam, etān vegān viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. After becoming gosvāmī, he can make disciples all over the world. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, today is the beginning of ūrjā*-vrata. Can you describe what that is, ūrjā-vrata, how it should be observed?



Prabhupāda: What is this?



*Gurudāsa: They want to know ūrjā*-vrata.



Prabhupāda: Uh.



Gurudāsa: He wants you to describe what it is.



Devotee (1): And how should we observe it,



*Prabhupāda: Ūrjā*-vrata, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours one month (laughter) That's all.



Gurudāsa: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't sleep, don't eat. This is ūrjā*-vrata. Can you execute?



Devotee (1): I don't know. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I may have missed a point about the atheist. He sees God at the time of death. Does he see the form of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death?



Prabhupāda: No. As the form of death. Kṛṣṇa has many forms. So death is also Kṛṣṇa's form. Ye yathā mām prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. One who has become inimical to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa appears as enemy. Just like He appeared as Narasiṁhādeva to Hiraṇyakaśipu. So Hiraṇyakaśipu was very great personality. He was father of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Ordinary man, they fear the death. That fearful death, meeting with the fearfulness is their meeting with Kṛṣṇa. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





721019ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 19, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading) "...happiness immediately terminates with his body as long as his life, as soon as his life is over. Death is therefore taken as the representative of God for the atheistic class of men. The devotee realizes the presence of God by devotional service, whereas the atheist realizes the presence of God in the shape of death."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This point we have discussed last night that everyone can see God. To see God is not very difficult job. There are so many points described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. For the devotees, those who are serious about seeing God, they can see God. God is present everywhere. And God Himself, Kṛṣṇa, is describing, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. So everyone drinks water. Now Kṛṣṇa says, "The taste of the water, I am." So who has not tasted the water? Everyone drinks water at least four times, five times. So as soon as you drink water, the taste of the water is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am this." Kṛṣṇa has described Himself in so many ways. "Amongst the trees, I am this. Amongst the aquatics, I am this. Amongst the nonmovable, I am this." So why not see God in that way? The atheist class of men, they say, "Can you show me God?" So why don't you see God? Why you close your eyes? If you have got eyes to see, you can see God everywhere.



*Those who are saintly devotees, they are seeing God, Kṛṣṇa, in every moment. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. If you become saintly person by your austerities, penances, then you can see God in every step. Otherwise, if you think that "I cannot become saintly person," yes, nobody can become saintly immediately. It requires time. But so long you are material person you can see God also in the water. You drink water. You can see God. You can see sunshine. God is there. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. So who has not seen the sunshine? Who has not seen the moonshine? So therefore if you have seen moonshine, if you have seen sunshine, you have seen God.

*But especially those who are impersonalists, they can see God in that way. Śabdaḥ khe pauruṣaṁ nṛṣu. There are descriptions in the Seventh Chapter, how you can see God in your common dealings. Still, if you do not see God, then you can see, you must see one day God at the time of your death. Mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Death is God. So the atheist class men, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, who always challenges God, in spite of so many things wherein we can see God, they deny to see God; *therefore God comes before them as death. So everyone has to meet death. So God is there. And you are seeing. But because we are atheist class of men, we are denying, "There is not God." So Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu says that, "After all, you have to meet with God at the time of death. So before death, why don't you see God in so many ways?" That is Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. The science of devotional service which is giving you indication how to see God always and everywhere. Go on reading.

*Pradyumna: "Death is therefore taken as the representative of God for the atheist class of men. The devotee realizes the presence of God by devotional service, whereas the atheist realizes the presence of God in the shape of death. At death everything is finished, and one has to begin a new chapter of life in a new situation, perhaps higher or lower than the last one. In any field of activity, political, social, national or international, the results of our actions will be finished with the end of life. That is sure. Bhakti*-rasa, however, the mellow relished in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, does not finish with the end of life. It continues perpetually and is therefore called amṛta, that which does not die, but exists eternally."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Rasa. Rasa means mellow. Everything we have, there is a rasa. Without rasa, we do not deal in anything. So this material rasa or mellow, which we relish in our daily dealings... Suppose our dealings with wife, children, friends or others, enemy also. There is a rasa. When we kill our enemy, there is also some pleasure rasa. When we see something ghastly... In European and Western countries, they want to see some ghastly things in the television. So they enjoy rasa. There is some rasa, relishment. Otherwise, how they are all day, practically, they are sitting before the television and seeing?



*So there are twelve kinds of rasas. Five kinds of rasa, we generally experience. The dealings between servants and master, dealings between friend and friend, dealings between mother and the child, dealings between lover and the beloved, dealings between the enemy and enemies. So many ways, there are, on the whole, twelve kinds of rasa. And the, all the rasas are there in Kṛṣṇa. Akhila*-rasāmṛta. Akhila-rasa. He's the reservoir of all pleasure. Even in ghastly behavior, a man is killing another man, there is some enjoyment by killing. Just like Bhīma. When he killed Duryodhana, he immediately sucked the blood of Duryodhana's heart. So there was some pleasure. Because Duryodhana insulted them so many ways. And they were, especially Bhīma was finding out the opportunity when he'll, he would enjoy the rasa by killing Duryodhana. So all, in all our dealings, directly or indirectly, there is some rasa.

Now, in our material dealings, the rasas are temporary. They'll be finished. As soon as this body is finished, the rasa is also finished. Just like we love somebody, any way, either as friend or as child or as husband or as lover, friend, so many ways. But these rasa will be finished as soon as this body's finished. I have got some affectionate dealings with my sons. But as soon as the son dies, or I die, the rasa is finished. But if you deal in the same way with Kṛṣṇa, who is the reservoir of all rasas, it will continue. If you love Kṛṣṇa as a friend in this life, if you develop your consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as friend of Kṛṣṇa's, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9], when you go to Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, then you go there as Kṛṣṇa's friend.

*Just like Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī's described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena, māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. The boys who were playing with Kṛṣṇa, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that after many, many births accumulation of pious activities... Because you cannot develop devotional service without pious life. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. If you want to become associate with Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot act as a sinful man. Just like a criminal is not allowed to come out of the jail. He has no freedom. Similarly, if we act sinfully in this life, then we'll have to remain within this material world, one body after another. So we, we have to give up sinful activities. Therefore we forbid our students, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Because these are the pillars of sinful life. So we have to give up these things to accelerate our promotion to devotional service. We cannot go on doing this and that at the same time. It is something like that, you ignite fire and pour water. It will be useless attempt. If you want to burn the fire blazing, don't put water on it. Keep it dry. Similarly, if you want to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you cannot indulge in sinful activities. And when you are proved that you are no more sinful, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam, one who has become freed from the reaction of sinful life, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmāṇi...

*You have to do something. So if you engage yourself twenty*-four hours in pious activities, pious activities in goodness, that is also tainted. But when you actually engage yourself in the devotional service of Vāsudeva, as we were discussing this morning, the verse, vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... [SB 1.2.7]. So even if we are accustomed to sinful activities on account of bad habits, still, we can engage ourself in devotional service of Vāsudeva. So those who are sincerely devotee of Vāsudeva, sometimes due to their past habits, may commit something sinful, not knowingly, but habituated; *that is excused by Kṛṣṇa. Api cet su*-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. But not wilfully. Wilfully, if we commit some sinful activities, that can be excused once, twice, but not thrice. then you'll be punished. Therefore a devotee should not commit wilfully any sinful activities in order to keep himself always fit in devotional service. He should try to keep himself steady, without committing any sinful actions. The primary sinful activities are described, and we try to follow. And if we chant sixteen rounds and keep ourself always aloof from the sinful activities, then it is certain, niścayāt, utsāhān dhairyāt, niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati.

*If you want to advance in devotional service, then you should be enthusiastic, utsāhān, dhairyāt, with patience, and niścayāt, you should be assured that "Because I'm following strictly the direction of my spiritual master and śāstras, certainly I shall meet Kṛṣṇa." Tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. By following the rules and regulations, sato vṛtteḥ, always trying to be honest and sādhu-saṅga... [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. The sādhu-saṅga is very important. Therefore we have created this internal society, International Society so that actually it is happening. People are coming to our society, in our centers, and after one week, automatically he takes a bag and beads and shaves himself. Automatically. Sādhu-saṅga is very... Association of sādhu. Solitary bhajana, executing devotional service in a solitary place, is not possible for the neophyte devotees. It is meant for the advanced devotees. If, from the very beginning, without executing the regulative principles, if one wants to execute devotional service in a solitary place, it will be simply disturbing, and he must fall down. There are so many examples, even in this Vṛndāvana. So we should not imitate. We must, vidhi-mārga. The regulative principles must be followed. Then when you are mature, then we can sit down in a solitary place. Otherwise it is not possible. Then. You read.

*Pradyumna: "This is confirmed in all Vedic literatures. The Bhagavad*-gītā says that a little advancement in bhakti-rasa can save the devotee from the greatest danger, that of missing the opportunity for, of human, for human life."



Prabhupāda: Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Just like Ajāmila. Ajāmila, when he was young, he was executing devotional service just like a pure brāhmaṇa under the direction of his father, but when he was young, he was captivated by prostitute and fell down, became a thief, drunkard, and cheater. So many ways his life became sinful. But at the end of his life, when he was just going to die, he simply chanted "Nārāyaṇa". His youngest son's name was Nārāyaṇa. So when the Yamadūtas, the messengers of Yamarāja... [break] ...carrying him. So he thought that his youngest son, because he was beloved, would save him. So he chanted, not chanted, he called his youngest son, Nārāyaṇa. Immediately he remembered Nārāyaṇa. Because in the beginning he was a devotee of Nārāyaṇa. So immediately, because he remembered Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa immediately sent His messengers to take him back to Vaikuṇṭha. So therefore this is the instance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Go on.



Pradyumna: "The rasas derived from our feelings in social life, in family life or the greater family of altruism, philanthropism, nationalism, socialism, communism, etc., do not guarantee that one's next life will be as a human being."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know that. The so... There are so many welfare workers. But they do not know even that there is next life. This is the position of the present civilization. Because I may be a great philanthropist, but my next life will be according to my karma. Just like by becoming philanthropist I may do so many sinful activities. Because when one is mad after something... Kāmais tais tair hṛta*-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. When, then his knowledge becomes bewildered. They do not care to do anything, either sinful... Generally, they act sinfully. But according to our acts, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], the superior authority will examine your karma. Not so-called philanthropism. Actually philanthropism has no meaning because, according to the law of karma...



*Suppose you are suffering with some disease. So because you are being supplied first*-class medicine, there is no guarantee that your disease will be cured. We have seen many cases. Similarly, according to Vedic conclusion, the happiness and distress, they're destined.

Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham

[SB 1.5.18].



Duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ labhyate. Just like nobody tries to become distressed. Everyone tries to become happy. So why distress comes? I try for happiness. Suppose happiness comes. But I do not try for distress. Why distress comes? We cannot explain why distress comes. You take care of all possibilities. Still, there is distress. Why? Now, this is the destiny. If you have to suffer some distress, you must suffer. That is called distress. So Bhāgavata says therefore that as you don't try for distress and it overcomes you, similarly if you don't try for happiness, if you have got some happiness, it will overcome you. It will come automatically. Therefore we should not try either for happiness or for distress. We should simply try to develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our business. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. A learned man should try for that only. That means this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ. We are wandering upary*-adaḥ. Upary-adhaḥ. Upary means sometimes we are going in the higher planetary systems, Brahmaloka, Janaloka, Satyaloka, sometimes going downward, Tala, Atala, Vitala, Pātāla, Rasātala. Or sometimes higher species of life, sometimes lower species of life. In this way, we are wandering according to our karma. This is material existence. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says,

ei rūpe bhramāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



A living entity is wandering in this way, sometimes on the higher level, sometimes on the lower level, but he's changing one chapter, another, one chapter, another. That is not very good, to repetition of birth and death. So a living entity if he's very fortunately, fortunately he meets some good association, good devotees, then his life changes.



ei rūpe bhramāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is a process to give chance everyone. Just like we are holding this meeting. It is a chance given to everyone to hear about Kṛṣṇa, to learn about devotional service. And if it attracts him, if he says, "Yes, it is nice," then it is called śraddhā. So śraddhā, by repeated hearing, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. If we hear repeatedly, then we develop our dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In everybody there is dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that is also stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta: nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. Kṛṣṇa bhakti is there. It is not artificially we acquire it. It is already there. But we are in the forgotten stage. Therefore, by repeated hearing, it is awakened. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. If we hear Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare/Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, then śuddha-citta. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The, the heart, the mirror of the heart, will be cleansed. And as soon as it is cleansed, we awaken, we remember, "Oh, I am eternal." Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This remembrance comes, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." And when he understands that he's eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa and he engages himself in that service, then immediately he becomes liberated.



*Liberation, mukti,... Mukti means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is mukti. So our constitutional position is eternal servitorship of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. So if we can simply understand that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Let me again engage, be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service," and if he's actually engaged, then immediately he's liberated. So devotees are already liberated. Those who are actually serious. Mukti svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. This is the definition of mukti. Mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpam. We are acting at the present moment anyathā. Anyathā means somebody's thinking that "I am the maintainer of this family. I am the minister of this state. I am this. I am that." So many. Upādhis. So when we give up these designations, then that is mukti. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena-nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. And so long we are designated, we don't care for Kṛṣṇa, we care for society, friendship, love, country, philanthropism, this "ism," that "ism," that is our bondage.

*If you serve Kṛṣṇa, then naturally you serve everything. Yathā taror mūla*-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ [SB 4.31.14]. If you serve Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa gives you opportunity to serve everyone. That is... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he served Kṛṣṇa. Even his atheist father was delivered. Because he happened to be the father of a Vaiṣṇava. So to serve Kṛṣṇa is the best service to the nation, to the family, to self, to everybody. This is the secret of success. Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you simply serve Kṛṣṇa, then all other duties are very well performed. You are no longer debtor to any other obligation. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝṇām [SB 11.5.41]. We have got so many obligations: to the demigods, to the sages, to the forefathers, to the ordinary human beings, living entities. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Here we get immunity from all the obligations. Sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam. These are the śāstric injunctions. So simply by discharging devotional service, loving devotional service unto Kṛṣṇa, you become free from all obligations, there is no more obligations. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



If you take to Kṛṣṇa seriously, if you surrender, then He gives you protection from the reaction of so many obligations. Go on.



Pradyumna: "We prepare our next life by our actual activities in this present life. A living entity is offered a particular type of body as a result of his action in the present body."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Our next life means according to the karma, activities, in this life. They're judged at the point of death. The, our activities are judged and then we are given opportunity by the laws of nature to be carried in another mother's womb to get another gross body. We have got two kinds of bodies, the gross body and the subtle body. When this gross body is stopped working, the subtle body works. We have got experience every night. When you are lying down on bed, you are dreaming. You have gone somewhere else from your room and you are acting. That means the subtle body is acting. Similarly, when this body's stopped, nobody works, no more working, or the machine is broken, then, at that time, the subtle body carries you to another machine. This body is machine. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is yantra. So just like your car, you are driving one car, the car is stopped for some reason. It is no more working. Then what do you do? You get down. You get another car. Similarly, when this body's not working, then you give up this body; you take another body.



Now, taking another car means as you are paying for it. If you are paying very lump sum, you can a better car. But if you cannot pay, then you have to accept a low grade car. Similarly, the price means according to your karma, you are offered a car. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmāyān sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*Māyā creates a car for you, a carrying conveyance, this body. So that conveyance is according to karma. So if you act piously in this life, then next life you get good body. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā [Bg. 14.18]. Sattva-sthā. If you are in goodness, then, in the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to higher standard of life. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. And if you are in passion, then you remain here. And adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And if you are ignorant, then you go to animal life or lower grade of life. This is the law of karma. But instead of improving your karma, karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra, fruitive activities, if you take to devotional service and simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then you are no longer within the influence of this good work or bad work. You are transcendental. Immediately after death, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], you are no more subjected to this gross body... [break]



...understand Kṛṣṇa. You can understand Kṛṣṇa simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. Simply by your service attitude, to serve Kṛṣṇa, beginning with the tongue. It is very wonderful. But utilizing your tongue, you can achieve Kṛṣṇa very easily. By the tongue. By the tongue, if you simply chant, without any offense, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and by the tongue, if you simply taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam, and by the tongue, if you speak about Kṛṣṇa, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128], you understand Kṛṣṇa. The three business of the tongue. Tasting the prasādam, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and preaching about Kṛṣṇa. By these three things you understand Kṛṣṇa, and as you understand Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9], you are transferred to the spiritual kingdom.

Thank you very much. (end)



721227ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, December 27, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "...but his whole advancement of material happiness immediately terminates along with his body as soon as his life is over. Death is therefore taken as the representative of God for the atheistic class of men. The devotee realizes the presence of God by devotional service, whereas the atheist realizes the presence of God in the shape of death. At death everything is finished, and one has to begin a new chapter of life in a new situation, perhaps higher or lower than the last one. In any..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhagavad*-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa says: mṛ tyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham. At the... By death, everything is taken away by Kṛṣṇa. So the modern civilization, they do not believe in the next birth. That is the basic mistake of the present civilization, that we get information that tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dehāntaram. Just like we are transmigrating, even in this span of life, from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age body. Therefore it is natural to conclude that after this old body's finished, then we get another body, transmigration of the soul. But there is no education, no enlightenment about this transmigration of the soul. But we can, if we think, ponder very deeply on this matter, how transmigration of the soul is taking place, and it is authorized, authorized statement of Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir.



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*So this is the defect. The atheist class of men, they also see God. One, everyone can see God, provided he has got eyes to see. Actually, premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are yogis, bhakta-yogis, because they are in love with God, Kṛṣṇa, they are seeing every moment within their heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Anyone you love, you see always within your heart. Similarly, if you have love for God, Kṛṣṇa, then you can see Kṛṣṇa always. That is called yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginaḥ, those who are yogis, under meditation, they see the Supreme Personality of Godhead within the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. So there are many evidences in the śāstras. Yoga means to see the Supreme Lord within the heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is situated in everyone's heart. One has to see. One has to develop that visionary power, how to see God within the heart. That is wanted. That is called yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita. Otherwise Īśvara is there in everyone's heart. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*"The first*-class yogi is he who is always seeing Me within his heart." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. There are different types of yogis. The first-class yogi is he who can see Kṛṣṇa within his heart constantly, without any cessation. Smartavyaṁ satato viṣṇuḥ vismārtavyaṁ na jātucit. This is the process. One has to observe Viṣṇu within the heart always. Smartavyaṁ satato viṣṇuḥ vismartavyam na... This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One has to think of Kṛṣṇa or see Kṛṣṇa within the heart twenty-four hours. That is perfection of yoga. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatena āntarātmanā.



But the atheist class of men, they do not see. They do not like to see. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu and Prahlāda. Prahlāda is the son of Hiraṇyakaśipu; *a great devotee. And the father is atheist. That is the struggle. This struggle between the atheist and theist, always existing. But God, Hiraṇya, I mean to say, Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared. Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared for the solace of the devotee, Prahlāda, and for the death of the atheist. Both of them saw. Prahlāda saw Nṛsiṁhadeva as the most worshipable Deity, and Hiraṇyakaśipu saw the same person as death. Therefore God can be seen by everyone, atheist or theist, but they see in a different way. The, the theist, the devotee, sees God... Just like these devotees are worshiping the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī, and let us offer Him respect by offering ārātrika, prasādam." They're seeing also. The atheist will say, "What this nonsense? Some idol they are worshiping." The atheist will see, "What is this non...?" But that atheist will see God at the time of death, when He'll come as Nṛsiṁhadeva: immediately finished. All his assets, finished. With the body, the, everything he has possessed, the family or the house, the bank balance, this or that, everything is finished. Now he begins another chapter. He forgets. Just like we forget at night when we see some dream, we forget our identity, that "I am this. I am that. I am lying on the bed. I've got this good apartment." No. Everything is finished. Again, this, when the dream is finished, we come to another dream: "Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance." This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttime dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he's in the dreamland. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. This is called māyā, illusion. Nighttime dreaming and daytime dreaming. The nighttime dream... In this way, we are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. This evolutionary process is going on.

Therefore, therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍo bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*The living entity is wandering in this way, life after life*-sometimes as human being, sometimes as demigod, sometimes as brāhmaṇa, sometimes as śūdra, sometimes as tree, sometimes as insect, sometimes as fish, so many. Sometimes as birds. And in different planets also, not only in this planet. Brahmāṇḍo. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, brahmāṇḍo. Within the universe, he is traveling according to his karma.



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



So those who are in goodness, they are being promoted to the higher planetary systems of demigods.



*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*Those who are in goodness of material nature, they're being promoted to the higher planetary systems. Those who are in passion, they are left within this Bhūr, Bhuvarloka. And those who are in ignorance, jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti, they, one who has no systematic life, living like animal, so eating, sleeping like animal, jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, they go down. This is going on. Out of many millions of living entities, in this way, wandering all over the universe, one who is fortunate, he comes in contact with guru and Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Beginning of devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



So that is real life.

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍo bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



mālī hañā sei bīja karaye āropaṇa

*śravaṇa*-kīrtana-jale karaye secana

[Cc. Madhya 19.152]



*Just like if you get a nice flower seed, if you sow it and pour water, gradually it will grow. Similarly, this bhakti*-latā-bīja, if one gets fortunately, through the association of devotees, and if he sows it within the heart and pour water gradually, by this way, śravaṇa kīrtana, this process which you are following, hearing and chanting... This is called the process of pouring water. Then that bhakti-latā-bīja, that creeper, bhakti-latā, will grow. And, in due course of time, it will give you the fruit. The fruit is to be under the shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is fruit. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "In any field of activity-political, social, national or international*-the results of our actions will be finished with the end of life. That is sure. Bhakti-rasa, however, the mellow relished in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, does not finish with the end of life."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, this is very important. Whatever we are doing in this life, everything will be finished with the end of the body. My position, my wealth, my family, my this or that*-everything will be finished, because I'll have to accept another body. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. This gross body will be finished. I'll have to accept another gross body. But if you begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will not be finished, because it is the business of the soul. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means the original consciousness, "I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am God's, part and parcel of God," this consciousness. At the present moment, being illusioned by different material designations, we are thinking in different way: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I am this," "I am that." These are all designations. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means "I am Kṛṣṇa's." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So 'ham. "I am as good as Kṛṣṇa," or "I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." This consciousness is required to invoke. That is the prime objective of human life. Now we are in different consciousness. So bhakti means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become freed from all these designations: "I am this," "I am that," this bodily concept of life. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. I am identifying myself with this body. This is condemned in the śāstra. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. One who identifies himself with this body, he's no better than the cows and the asses. Sa eva go-kharaḥ.



So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means one is not identifying himself with this material body. He is identifying himself in his original constitutional position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. After being liberated from all these designations, one begins his devotional service, devotional life. And Kṛṣṇa says, "If one wants to know Me, then he must accept." Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Tattvataḥ. If one wants to know Kṛṣṇa, God, as He is, then he has to accept the process of devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhakti-yogena [SB 1.2.20]. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ. By practicing the bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, bhagavad-bhakti-yoga prasanna manaso, one has to become first of all joyful by identifying himself with the spirit. Brahmā bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Then when he becomes joyful, he understands that "I am not this material body, I am spirit soul. I am not American, I am not Indian, I'm not brāhmaṇa, I am not this, this, this, so many things... No, I am spirit soul. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." This is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso. When one becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realized, at that time, he becomes prasanna-manaso, joyful. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: he has no more lamentation or hankering. Evaṁ prasanna. In this state of life, prasanna-manaso, evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ [SB 1.2.20], by practicing bhagavad-bhakti yoga, bhagavat-tattva-vijñānaṁ mukta-saṅgasya jāyate. At that time, one can understand what is the science of God, bhagavat-tattva. It is not a sentiment; *it is a vijñāna, science. Bhagavad*-tattva-vijñāna. So who can understand this bhagavad-tattva-vijñāna, science? Mukta-saṅga. One who is liberated from this material contamination, he can understand.



*Therefore devotees who are constantly engaged in the loving service of the Lord, they are liberated. Māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Anyone who is engaged in devotional service unadulterated, without any motive, unadulterated:

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanam...

[Brs. 1.1.11]



He's liberated. These activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is, it appears to be ordinary activities, but that is liberated activity. Those who cannot understand the activities in liberation, nirviśeṣavādi, they think that in the conditioned state of life, there are activities; when one becomes liberated, he has no more activities, he becomes dumb. No. Actual activities begins in liberated... Just like a man, a diseased fellow, diseased fellow, lying on the bed, he's also eating. He's also sleeping. He's also passing stool, urine. But that is not real activity. When he becomes cured of the disease, come to his healthy life, and then again he walks, he eats, he sleeps, that is another, mean, a position of eating, sleeping. But one who cannot understand the liberated activities, they are shuddered. As soon as they think of activities, they think, "Oh, the activities, they, the..." The same patient who is suffering, for, suppose from birth, he cannot understand that there is activities after being cured of this disease. He cannot understand. He thinks activity means lying down on the bed and drinking all bitter medicine and pass stool and urine by using, what is called, that...?



Devotees: Bed pan. Bed pan.



*Prabhupāda: Bed pan. He's thinking like that. He has no idea there is better activities, better sleeping, better eating. That he cannot understand. Therefore śūnyavādi. They want to make zero. "These activities are giving me so much trouble. Make it zero." Just like sometimes one cannot tolerate the pains of diseased condition. Sometimes they commit suicide*-stop these activities. So the śūnyavādi, they are like that-committing suicide; stop these activities. But they do not know that there is activities. There are... After being cured of this material disease, when one is healthy... That healthy activities are the devotional activities. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi yogena yaḥ sevate. Sevate means there is activities. It is not stoppage of activities. Sevate. Sevate means giving service. Giving service is not stopping activities. But that is a different type of activities, healthy activities. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,



māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*He's brahma*-bhūtaḥ. He's self-realized. Self-realized. That is mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svārupeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti does not mean stopping activities. That is not mukti. That is suicidal. You are living entity. How you can stop? That is not possible. They say that, Māyāvādī philosophers, they say to become desireless. That..., you cannot be desireless because you are living entity. How you can stop your desires? But you have to rectify, you have to purify your desires. Now we are desiring simply for sense gratification, to lord it over the material nature. That is your desires. And, and when this desire is purified, then you'll desire that how everything should be engaged in the service of God. Now I am trying to become God, lord it over the material nature, but when my desires are purified, then I shall understand that everything belongs to God; therefore everything should be dovetailed in the service of God. That is liberation. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa... This is svarūpa.



*Therefore śūnyavādi, or nirviśeṣa*-vādi, they are not liberated. They are still in māyā. Vimukta-māninaḥ. In the Bhāgavata it is said that they are thinking, concocting that they have become liberated. Actually they are not liberated. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Māninaḥ. Say somebody thinks that "I'm the proprietor of all the banks." Let him think like that. But that does not mean he has become the proprietor of the banks. That is a different thing. Similarly, one may think that "I have become liberated," but actually he's not liberated. Liberated is he who is engaged in the service of the Lord. He's liberated. Nobody's liberated. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Just like they are going to the Moon planet. They have got very high speed sputniks. Simply riding on, boarding on high-speed sputnik does not mean he has gone to the moon planet. Actually he has to go there and live there. Then it is successful. But what they are doing? They are going and coming back. They are going and coming back. Similarly, āruhya kṛcchṛeṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. If you have to stay in the higher status of life, brahma anubhūti, then you'll have to come back again. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. Kṛcchreṇa means by practicing severe austerities, penances, one may go up to the Brahman effulgence, paraṁ padam. That is called paraṁ padam. But because there is no stay... Just like in the sky. You may go with high speed, but if you cannot stay in some planet, you'll have to come back again. Similarly, āruhya kñcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ, patanti adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because they cannot get shelter under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they have to come down again to these material activities. And we have seen practically, so many big, big sannyāsīs, they give up this material world, take sannyāsa to understand Brahman, but because they could not understand Brahman, they again come to open hospital and schools. That is their business. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32].

*But one who is engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, he does not come to these material activities again. The, the factual evidence... Just this, these boys, these European, American boys. Who could enjoy material life better than them? They were all enjoying. But they have given up everything. They are no more going back to that status of life. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. They have found something better. Therefore they're not going to again that life of meat*-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, smoking and drinking. No. They are not, no more going. Give them bribe also: "You come to again to that stage." Will you go?

Devotees: No. No.



*Prabhupāda: No. They'll never go. This is called liberation. This is called liberation. Simply by thinking, "I have become liberated," and I am handicapped by so many bad habits, that is not liberation. That is simply mental concoction. Real liberation is bhakti*-yoga.



Thank you very much. That's all. (end)



721020ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 20, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading) "A living entity is offered a particular type of body as a result of his action in the present body. These activities are taken into account by superior authority known as daiva, or the authority of God. This daiva is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā as the prime cause of everything, and in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that a man takes his next body by daiva-netreṇa, which means by the supervision of the authority of the Supreme. In an ordinary sense, daiva is explained as destiny. Daiva supervision gives us a body selected from 8,400,000 forms. The choice does not depend on our selection, but is awarded to us according to or destiny."



Prabhupāda: So material rasas. That is being experienced in different types of body. Just like somebody wants to taste fresh blood, flesh and blood. So he's given the next life a body like a tiger, like a other carnivorous animal, and he tastes very nicely blood and flesh. Nature gives all the facilities.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Prakṛti, nature is doing everything. I am desiring something. That means I am contacting, contacting the certain type of the modes of material nature. This is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Sad-asad-janma-yoni. Yoni means the source of birth. Mother is called yoni, and father is called bīja. Yathā yoni yathā bījam. According to bījam and according to yoni, we get body. So why you are getting different types of body? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya. He is contacting a particular type of the modes of material nature. There are three modes of material nature: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if I am associating with sattva-guṇa, then next life, I'll get a sattva-guṇa body. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā. [Bg. 14.18] Sattva-guṇa body means higher standard of life. So similarly, if I am associating with the modes of passion, then I'll get a body, next life, passionate. If I am associating with ignorance, tamo-guṇa, jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. Tāmasāḥ. Tama-vṛtti. The jaghanya, the lowest. There are so many varieties of life. So those who are associating with tamo-guṇa, drinking, flesh eating, smoking, illicit sex, gambling... These are the association of tamo-guṇa. Yatra pāpāś catur-vidhā. Where there are four kinds of sinful activities. So intoxication is sinful activities. That is tamo-guṇa. Associating with tamo-guṇa. So jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. Those who are associating with tamo-guṇa, their vṛtti, their habits, are very abominable. Jaghanya. Therefore adho gacchanti. They go downwards.



*In this way, everyone is enjoying a particular type of rasa, material rasa... and nature is offering him a particular type of body. Deha*-yogena dehinam. We can enjoy a particular type of rasa... Just like the hogs. They are relishing the rasa of stool very nicely. You give them nice food, they'll not take. They'll prefer to taste the stool. Why? Because he has been offered a particular type of body. And this particular type of body has been offered to him, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya... He has associated with jaghanya, tamo-guṇa, abominable tamo-guṇa. Therefore he has developed a body of a hog, and tasting the juice of stool. This is the way of transmigration of the soul. Actually, it is the living spirit soul, either hog or dog or a brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla or a cow. This is simply a covering, or... Just like we cover ourself in dream. That is subtle covering. Similarly, this is also covering. In the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo hy ayaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, the living entity, the spirit soul, is neither hog, neither dog, nor brāhmaṇa, nor this, nor that. It is simply a covering. But this covering is developed by our association with the particular type of modes of nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

*But in this life, if we develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness by association of devotees... As Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa. One's aim of life should be to serve the ācāryas. Ācārya upāsanam. So our ācārya in the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Sampradāya, the śrī-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha, śrī-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha, the Six Gosvāmīns, and if we associate with them... this book, Nectar of Devotion, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, if you read regularly, try to understand, this means you are associating with Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī directly. And if you act accordingly, then you are serving their lotus feet. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa. And unless you are associated with devotees, you will not be able to understand the import of the writings of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's secretary, Śrī Svarūpa Dāmodara, recommended one brāhmaṇa, bhagavat para giyā bhagavat sthāne. Bhagavat... He, he came to Caitanya Mahāprabhu to read some poetry he had written, but it was the system that unless anything written... There were many devotees. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was living at Purī, Jagannātha Purī. So many devotees from other provinces used to come and visit. And some of them wrote some poetries. But all of them, first of all, would be tested by Svarūpa Dāmodara. And then he'll be allowed to go before Caitanya Mahāprabhu and read it. That was the system. Because people do not know siddhānta. General people. Those who are advanced devotee, they know siddhānta, the conclusion. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, therefore, it has been advised,

siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa

ihā haite kṛṣṇe lāge sudṛḍha mānasa

[Ādi 2.117]



If you neglect siddhānta, conclusion, given by the ācāryas, then you will misunderstand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says... These are the evidences.



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bhujhaba se yugala*-pīriti



*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, such an exalted ācārya, he's teaching us, "Don't try to understand yugala*-pīriti, the love affairs between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, concoctedly, by your own concoction." No. You should first of all try to serve the Six Gosvāmīs, rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti, how they are directing. Just like this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī is not teaching in the beginning the loving affairs of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. No. He's training, first of all, the reader, the devotee, how to become first of all pure devotee.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*First of all, he's trying to bring the devotee to the standard devotional service. Vidhi*-mārga. Then gradually, when he becomes accustomed, then rāga-mārga will be revealed. Rāga-mārga is not artificial. It becomes, svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau... [Brs. 1.2.234]. Everything, devotional relationship with Kṛṣṇa, you cannot establish artificially. Everyone has got a particular relationship with Kṛṣṇa in his original constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the śāstras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of rāga-mārga, then your devotional si... That is called svarūpa-siddhi. Svarūpa-siddhi. So svarūpa-siddhi is attained at a certain stage. Just like svarūpa-siddhi... The desire for sex life is there in every human being, but when the boy and the girl come to the mature stage, it become manifest. It is, is not learned artificially. Similarly, the rāga-mārga, svarūpa-siddhi, becomes revealed or manifest. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. Udaya. This very word, udaya, is used. Just like sun. Sun becomes visible when the sun rises automatically. You cannot force the sun to rise at dead of night. That is not possible. Sun will rise. You just wait. When the time will be right, morning, six o'clock, you'll find the sun.



*Similarly, the devotional service, we have to execute with patience, with enthusiasm. Utsāhāt dhairyāt niścayāt tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. We must be enthusiastic that we... "I shall engage myself very nicely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement." That is first qualification, enthusiastic. Dullness will not help you. You must be very enthusiastic. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, prāṇa ache yara sei hetu pracāra. A preacher can, a person can become a preacher if he has got life. A dead man cannot become a preacher. So you must be very enthusiastic that "I shall preach the glories of the Lord to my best capacity." It is not that one has to become very learned scholar to become a preacher. Simply it requires enthusiasm, "My Lord is so great, so kind, so beautiful, so wonderful. So I must speak something about my Lord." This is the qualification, enthusiasm. You may not know Kṛṣṇa very perfectly. It is not possible to know Kṛṣṇa very perfectly. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited. We cannot know Kṛṣṇa cent percent. That is not possible. But Kṛṣṇa reveals as far as possible you can understand. So if we are sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa, utsāhān, and if we serve patiently, then Kṛṣṇa reveals.

*The example is given in this connection. Just like a girl is married. Generally, a girl wants a child. But if she wants a child immediately after marriage, that is not possible. She must wait. She must serve her husband nicely. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Just like a faithful wife. Time will come she will become pregnant and she will have child. So niścayāt means... Just like the girl must know because she's married, because she has got a husband, that there must be a child. It is a fact. It may be little later. Similarly, when you have entered into devotional service, bhakti-yoga, bhakti-mārga, your success is assured, provided you are enthusiastic and patient. Not that "Immediately I want a child," "Immediately I become fully Kṛṣṇa consciousness and perfect." No. There may be so many imperfections. Because we are in the imperfect atmosphere. But patiently, if you go on executing your duties in devotional service as it is directed in the śāstras and confirmed by the spiritual master, then rest assured that your success if guaranteed. This is the way. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You must execute the duties.

*Just like we have asked our students to finish sixteen rounds chanting minimum. Sixteen rounds is nothing. In Vṛndāvana there are many devotees, they chant 120 rounds. Like that. So sixteen rounds is the minimum. Because I know in the Western countries it is difficult job to finish sixty*-four rounds or 120 rounds, like that. Minimum sixteen rounds. That must be finished. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. This is the direction. Observing the regulative principles. In this way, we must be abiding by the direction of the spiritual master and the śāstra. Then rest assured. Success if guaranteed. Go on reading, next.

Pradyumna: "If our body at present..."



Prabhupāda: Bring the light. Hm. Go on.



Pradyumna: "If our body at present is engaged in the activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is guaranteed that we will have at least a human body in our next life."



Prabhupāda: So one thing is guaranteed. If you engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and suppose you do not become perfectly mature, some way or other, you fall down... We should not fall down. Because if we have got enthusiasm and patience, we shall not fall down. But suppose we fall down. Śāstra says, tasya abhadra abhūd amuṣya kim. There is nothing inauspicity because whatever you have done sincerely, that is recorded in the book. In the Kṛṣṇa's book. Kṛṣṇa has got accountant. He keeps nice account of the activities of His devotees. That's a fact. Just like the nondevotees' accounts are kept by Yamarāja for punishment. Similarly, devotees' accounts are kept by Kṛṣṇa, personally. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Unless he keeps account, how He says, "I respond to the devotee to the proportionate surrender"? Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. The real business is surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If we surrender immediately, cent percent, then Kṛṣṇa also gives you the result immediately, cent percent. Kṛṣṇa says,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣya...

[Bg. 18.66]



*If Kṛṣṇa relieves me from all kinds of sinful activities, then where is my miserable condition of life? Miserable condition of life is for them who are enjoying or suffering... There is no question of enjoyment. But it sometimes taken, enjoyment. The fruitive action, the result of fruitive action. So a devotee does not enjoy anything or suffer anything. Because a devotee does everything for Kṛṣṇa. So therefore for his personal self, there is no question of karma*-phala. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: yajñārthe karma anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. If you act for Kṛṣṇa, that is nice. If you act otherwise, then it is karma-bandhana. Yajñārthe karma anytra. Anyatra. Anyatra means except Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities, the activities of the karmīs and the jñānīs and the yogis, they are all karma-bandhana, bound up. Suppose karmīs, they are going to the heavenly planet or higher planetary system for getting higher standard of life, to take birth by pious activities in nice family, to become rich. But that is bandhana. That is bondage.



*Similarly, the so*-called mukti, jñānīs, they merge into the existence, Brahman existence, of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nirbheda-brahmānusandhana. Nirbheda, without any distinction, enter, merge into the Brahman. That is also bandhana, bondage. Why? Because we find in the śāstras: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam. Paraṁ padam means brahma-pada, to merge into the effulgence, brahmajyoti. That is called paraṁ pada. According to Vaiṣṇava, paraṁ pada means to go to Vaikuṇṭha or Goloka Vṛndāvana and be engaged as servant, eternal servant of the Lord. But according to the jñānīs, the paraṁ pada means merge into the effulgence of brahmajyoti. Śāstra says that āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. To go to that paraṁ padam, that is also not very easy. Kṛcchreṇa. Severe austerities and penances, one has to undergo to merge into the Brahman effulgence. Therefore you'll find, the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, their stricture is very rigid. They must take bath thrice in, in a day and lie down underneath a tree and... Their renunciation is very rigid. Of course, those who are strictly following. In our Brahmā, Vaiṣṇava sannyāsa, there is little leniency. Because they live in Kṛṣṇa, so there is no need of very strict, rigid following. Although it is stated that they should live like this. But there is leniency. But Māyāvāda, they are very rigid in their principles of sannyāsa life. That is called āruhya kṛcchreṇa. Kṛcchreṇa, with great difficulty, they merge into the Brahman effulgence. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. They attain in the perfectional stage. Not perfectional. Paraṁ padam. In the spiritual realm. But patanty adhaḥ. Again falls down. Again falls down means because in the effulgence there is no varieties. The example is just like you have got a nice sputnik or, what is called...?

Indian man: Apollo. Apollo.



Prabhupāda: No, no. By which they go?



Indians and Devotees: Rocket.



*Prabhupāda: Rocket, rocket. You have not very nice rocket running at the speed of eighteen thousand miles or twenty*-five thousand miles per hour. But you may go. If you don't take, if you don't get shelter in some planet... Just as they're going in the moon planet, but do not get shelter and come back, similarly, supposing they are getting shelter, but that shelter is not very secure. They again come back. So without shelter, how long you can fly in the sky? The sky is unlimited. You can fly on your sputnik or capsules, but if you don't get the shelter in some planet, then again you come back to your place. So this is... The same example is given in the Bhāgavata: āruhya kṛcchreṇa, with great scientific method you can go up. But if you don't get a shelter, then you come back again on this planet. Similarly, the nondevotees, the impersonalists, they undergo severe penances and austerities undoubtedly, and they rise up to the brahmajyoti... Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. From there, he again falls down. Same example. Why? Anādhṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because they did not care for the shelter under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, therefore they have to come back again to this material world.



*That is practically experienced. We have seen many, many great sannyāsīs. They give up this world and take sannyāsa for merging into Brahman, but later on they come back again to the material activities for opening hospital, schools, and philanthropic work. Why? Because they could not get there. In their so*-called Brahman realization, they could not get any pleasure. Therefore they come down again to the material activities. You have left this material world as brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Then why you come back again to this mithyā world, to open hospitals and schools? The reason is they could not get any pleasure in so-called Brahman-realization. Therefore they come back to give food to the poor, to open hospital, philanthropic work. So...

Indian Devotee: (in background) Haribol! Nitāi Gaura Haribol!



Prabhupāda: Therefore...



*Devotee: (Hindi*-Jaya Rādhe!)



Prabhupāda: Therefore, if you stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will enjoy blissful, transcendental blissfulness. Then you'll not be attracted with this humanitarian work or philanthropic work. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. In the service of the Lord, there are so much pleasure, transcendental pleasure. Just like in the life of Gosvāmīs, we find:



*tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat

*bhūtvā dīna*-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kantāśritau

*gopī*-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*They gave up their ministerial posts. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Most insignificant. They gave up their ministerial posts. And they became mendicants. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kantāśritau. Became very poor, voluntarily mendicant. It is very difficult. If one changes his dress artificially by imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī, he cannot stay. He'll have to take to sex pleasure and intoxication to keep himself fit for bhajana. No. But the Gosvāmīs, they did not take into sex pleasure or intoxication. They were merged into the ocean of the dealings of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī. There is a... Laharī. There is a flow, constant flow of waves, in the ocean of loving affairs between Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs, So they were merged into that. Therefore this renunciation, this material renunciation, did not affect. Otherwise, if one artificially renounce this material world, and he does not get real shelter unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he'll fall down. That's a fact. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. So if you want to stay attached to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then you must always keep yourself busy in the transcendental loving service of Lord.



Thank you very much. [break]

Devotee: ...scientists who are going to the moon by some artificial process that even though mechanically, on the gross level, they may reach the moon planet, because they cannot enter into the actual activity on the moon planet, technically, according to Bhāgavata, they have not reached there?



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go... Suppose if somebody comes on this Earthly planet and goes to the Arabian desert, then what he'll find? He must go back again.



Devotee: So he can say he has been there grossly, but actually he has not been there because he cannot enter into the activity there.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He, they have not gone to the proper place. They have gone to the Arabian desert. That's all. (laughter)



Devotee: Don't think it is wrong. (end)





721228ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, December 28, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading) "Bhakti*-rasa, however, the mellow relished in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, does not finish with the end of life. It continues perpetually and is therefore called amṛta, that which does not die, but exists eternally."



*Prabhupāda: This is the importance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said:



*tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ

*ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva*-dharmataḥ

[SB 1.5.17]



*Just like sometimes they say that the, in this movement, just like the cinema, the hippies are joining. Accepting that hippies are... Hippies means they're useless. They are joining. Bhāgavata says that those who are very dutiful, they are called sva*-dharma niṣṭhā. Sva-dharma niṣṭhā. According to Vedic culture, there are different divisions of the society. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha. So these are called sva-dharma, means, engaged in one's occupational duty. That is called sva-dharma. Or, in the modern sense, somebody's engaged in business, somebody's engaged in other occupation, profession. There are...



*Every man has got some engagement. That's a fact. So Bhāgavata says that: tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer [SB 1.5.17]. Anyone, even by sentiment, or by any reason, he gives up his own occupational duty and takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, or joins this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer... All right. If one has joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, doing very nicely, he's improving, that's all right. But if he falls down... Because sometimes they come out of sentiment, join this movement and again falls down. Sometimes. Not very occasionally. But there is chance because māyā is very strong. One may fall down. Bhāgavata says bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi. He's not mature. In immature stage, by some reason or other, if he falls down, then yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim. Then what is the loss there? There is no loss. Suppose he joined out of sentiment and executed devotional service for some time under the direction of the spiritual master, according to the regulations of the śāstras, but incidentally, he falls down. He becomes a victim to the māyā. Bhāgavata says still there is no loss. There is no loss. On the other hand, a person who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, he has not become a devotee, Bhāgavata says: "What does he gain?" One who is engaged in his occupational duty very sincerely, doesn't care for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Bhāgavata says: "What does he gain?" He doesn't gain anything. But the, that man who joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement out of sentiment, but immaturely he falls down, he has no loss. This is the...

Try to understand this. Because this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the consciousness of the spirit soul. That is reality. Therefore as the soul is eternally, his advancement in that consciousness, that also becomes an eternal asset. That will never be lost. Even if (he) falls down in this life, he could not execute cent percent the duties in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even he falls down, so whatever he has done in this life, that becomes a permanent asset. So that, from next life, he'll be given chance. In... In ordinary karmi's life, there is no guarantee that he'll get next life a human body. According to his karma he'll get a body. Maybe animal body or maybe demigod's body. But there is no certainty that he'll get a human body. But this man, who out of sentiment joined in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and immaturely falls down, he's guaranteed to get a very nice human body.

*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yogo bhraṣṭo sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. He'll get birth in a family, śucīnām. Śucīnām means pious brāhmaṇa family or devotee's family. He'll get birth. Or in rich family. The second-class will get in rich family. But both these families will give them chance to begin where he ended his Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the last life. He'll begin from there. That is his opportunity. Therefore there is no loss. His next life as human being is guaranteed. Even if he's fallen down. But the others, who does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, doing his own duty, but he will get a body according to his karma. Not... That, that is the difference between the karmīs and the devotee. Devotee, even if he is not successful to execute the devotional... perfectly, but whatever he has done, ten percent, twenty percent, fifty percent, that is his asset. It will never be lost. That is being stated. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "This is confirmed in all Vedic literatures. The Bhagavad*-gītā says that a little advancement in bhakti-rasa can save the devotee from the greatest danger, that of missing the opportunity for human life."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Just Ajāmila. Ajāmila in his boyhood, he was very sincere brāhmaṇa. He was conducting devotional service under the direction of his father. But in youthhood, he fell down. He became a victim of a prostitute. He forgot everything. He became a rogue, drunkard, meat*-eater, woman-hunter, all fallen down. But at the end of life, when he was afraid of the Yamadūtas, out of fearfulness he called for his youngest son whose name was Nārāyaṇa. Because when you are in danger, naturally... Just like a child, cries for the mother. Because mother is the only... Similarly affection is there. Similarly this Ajāmila asked for the youngest child: "Nārāyaṇa." But immediately he remembered that Nārāyaṇa whom he served in his boyhood. So immediately the Nārāyaṇa messengers came and saved him. Svalpam apy. He, he executed very little service in his boyhood as a devotee. That saved him from the greatest danger. He was being dragged out by the men of Yamarāja, but the Viṣṇudūtas came and protected him and took him to Vaikuṇṭha. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. By by chance, he remembered Nārāyaṇa because he executed Nārāyaṇa's service. Then he was saved. Go on.



Pradyumna: "The rasas derived from our feeling in social life, in family life, or in the greater family life of altruism, philanthropism, nationalism, socialism, communism, etc., do not guarantee that one's next life will be as a human being."



Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no guarantee. That... Yes. Now today I am very great leader, minister. That's all right. But after death there is no guarantee that you'll become again minister or big man, big business man. There is no such guarantee. That we'll have to accept another body according to your karma. Suppose as business man, I've done very nicely. I have given in charity. That's nice. You get better life. But for business sake, I have earned money by hook and crook, my mentality's just like crocodile or dog; then I have to become a crocodile. That's all. Because after death you are in the hands of nature. You cannot dictate that "Give me this and that body." No. That you have to prepare in this life. If you prepare yourself in this life to go back to home, back to Godhead, you go back to home, back to Godhead. If you prepare your, this life as a crocodile, then you become a crocodile. So God is very kind. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. So it is your business to what kind of body you are going to get next. Just like the example I was giving last night. That we are staying in this room, and suppose after a month we have to give it up. So we must find out another apartment. It may be better or it may be lower. There is no guarantee. But if we can arrange, we can better apartment than this. And if we cannot, we may go to hellish apartment. This is the way. But for the devotee, at least it is guaranteed that he gets next life as a human being. Not only human being, but in the family of a devotee, or in the family of rich man. These alternatives are there. Then?



Pradyumna: "We prepare our next life by our actual activities in the present life. A living entity is offered a particular type of body as a result of his action in the present body. These activities are taken into account by a superior authority..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "...known as daiva."



Prabhupāda: People do not believe this. They think that everything is going on automatically. No. There is everything, account, witness. The Lord...



Devotee: Too windy? (about fan)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Anumantā upadraṣṭā sākṣīni. Sākṣīni. The Lord... Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe [Bg. 18.61]. Everything is being witnessed and that is being recorded. So just like in a office in government service, there is service record, and at the end of the year, everything is considered. So the man is promoted, given some bonus on the proprietor or the directors, they're not meeting that man. But the service record is there. Similarly, whatever we are doing, good or bad, that is being recorded and it is examined. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. We are acting and there is superior authority. They are examining what kind of body he has to get next. So that, that, that science is not being taught, that what is our next body? They are thinking that there is no next body, there is no life, this life is finished. But that is not the fact. As this life I have changed. I was a child, I got next body, I was a boy, I got next body, I was a you, young man. I got next body. Now I have got this body. So now I will have not this body, I will get next body. Where is the difficulty to understand? I've already experienced the next body, next body, next body. Why not after death next body? That the intelligence is to know what is that next body. That is, my, in my hand.



*Just like if you become educated highly your next post is very nice. But if you are not educated, then your next post is not very nice. Similarly if you act in this body very nicely, yānti deva*-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. So you can prepare your next life. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is next life to go back to Kṛṣṇa directly. That is our program. How? Simply by knowing Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Kṛṣṇa guarantees this: janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. If we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And He's explaining in the Bhagavad-gītā. But if you foolishly misinterpret Kṛṣṇa, then you go to hell. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, then you go back to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty?

*The rascals, they will not understand Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says. The rascal will mislead other and mislead himself. He'll go himself to hell and he'll drag all others to the hell. This is going on. This is going on. Everything is there, very plain and clear. One has to act according to that. He gets the benefit. But they, they will not allow. These rascal leaders, they'll not allow. They will be represent Kṛṣṇa as something else. The, the only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Not to accept Kṛṣṇa is fact. All the big commentaries on Bhagavad*-gītā, you'll see. They're simply trying to make Kṛṣṇa is not a fact. It is some fictitious. It is some story, mental speculation. This is their business. Demonic. So the condition is very, I mean to say, dangerous. People are being misled.

*We are only... It is not our pride. It is a fact. We are the only institution. We are trying to give the greatest benefit to the human society, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Anyone who understands, if he understands... It is not possible to understand fully Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited. But as, as He represents Himself, Kṛṣṇa, as He says Himself, if you understand... Kṛṣṇa says: "I am the origin of everything." You take it. Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. He has proved. Kṛṣṇa is origin of everything. All the ācāryas, big, big ācārya accepted Him, Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. Arjuna, who heard Bhagavad*-gītā, he accepted Him, Kṛṣṇa is origin. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam [Bg. 10.12]. Why we should try to understand Kṛṣṇa otherwise? What is this foolishness? But that is their scholarship. That is their knowledge. If somebody can most rascal explain Bhagavad-gītā, oh, he's a great scholar. Just see the fun.(?) He's the rascal number one and misleading people, he's great scholar. And we are simply presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says, Kṛṣṇa says: "Surrender unto Me." We say surrender to Kṛṣṇa. "These are primitive. These are primitive." We are not scholars. This is, this rascaldom is going on. So you want to save people from these rascals. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The rascals have created a situation by defying Kṛṣṇa's authority, atheistic situation, the whole world in chaos. That must be. When there are leaders, only demons, how there can be any peace? The people are also becoming demons. So our, this movement, is very scientific, authorized. If you preach, there is no difficulty. As we, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, simply Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you are successful and those who hear you, they also successful. Simply method. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "These activities are taken into account by a superior authority known as daiva, or the authority of God. This daiva is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā as the prime cause of everything."



Prabhupāda: Yes. There are five causes. Karta, the, the doer, the place, the instrument, and providence. In this way, there are five causes for acting anything. Just like you are doing business. So if you are a nice businessman, that's very good asset. If you place your business in a market place, there is good opportunity. If you have got sufficient capital, good instrument, and if God is favorable, then your business is successful. Similarly in anything there are five causes. And the ultimate cause is daiva. You may make everything very nicely. You may become, may be very business, a good business man, you have got sufficient capital, you are conducting your business in a very nice center, downtown, everything, but if God is not favorable, then everything will be spoiled. Everything will be spoiled. So therefore this cause, favorable. Of course, God is kind to everyone. But, but we see sometimes that everything is perfectly done, but still it is spoiled.



*Just like a man. A man is suffering from some disease, and you have employed first*-class physician, first-class medicine, first-class everything, but is still the man dies. What is the cause? The cause is daiva. That in spite of all your endeavors, because God does not like that he should live, you cannot save him. You cannot save him. The same example, again I want to give. That Titanic. They made the ship very strong, and they were so assured that all the big men, they, they were on board that Titanic ship. There was first journey and immediately Atlantic Ocean, they smashed. That's a great incidence. Therefore this is a fact, that you may arrange everything very nicely, according to your best knowledge, but if God is unfavorable, then you cannot do it. Daiva. Na ca daiva paraṁ balam. Therefore it is said there is no other superior strength than daiva. One has to accept this. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "In the, and in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is stated that a man takes his next body by daiva-netreṇa which means by the supervision of the authority of the Supreme. In an ordinary sense, daiva..."



*Prabhupāda: Daiva*-netreṇa. So we have to get our body next according the superior, daiva. Superior means God's, God's arrangement. God is witnessing what kind of body I will have. Then?



Pradyumna: "In an ordinary sense, daiva is explained as destiny. Daiva supervision gives us a body selected from eight million, four hundred thousand forms."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "The choice does not depend on our selection..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "...but is awarded to us according to our destiny."



Prabhupāda: You cannot say that "I am Indian. I have got my love for India. And I'll get again birth as Indian leader." You, you may get birth in India because you have got strong attachment, but it may not be as leader. It may be as cats and dogs. Or cows or goat. Then you'll be sent to the slaughterhouse, you, even though you are Indian. Or any country, American... So these are simply sentiments. This is, this is, there is no use... But people do not know this science. They think that "I am doing right as philanthropist, as nationalist, as..." But you, he, he forgets that he's under the full control of material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot plan. The ultimate plan is sanctioned by God, or by His agent, the prakṛti. You cannot make your plan. You get the result of your present activity. Karma phala. Go on.



Pradyumna: "If our body at present is engaged in the activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is guaranteed that we will have at least a human body in our next life. A human being engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if unable to complete the course of bhakti yoga is, allowed take birth in the higher division of human society so that he can automatically further his advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore all bona fide activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness are amṛta, or permanent."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Amṛta. Bhakti*-rasāmṛta. (aside:) What you...? Sit down.



Pradyumna: "This is the subject matter of The *Nectar of Devotion*."



Prabhupāda: Go on.



*Pradyumna: "This eternal engagement in bhakti*-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life, free from anxieties and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa. Generally..."



*Prabhupāda: Bhakti*-rasa is better than liberation, mukti. Because generally the Māyāvādī philosophers, jñāni-sampradāya, they consider mukti means to merge into the spiritual existence, Brahman. Brahma-sayujya-mukti, to, to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence of the Absolute. They consider it, that is the highest. And the Buddha philosophers, they think to make all these activities zero, śūnyavādī. Dismantle. Because on account of this combination of matter, earth, water, fire, air, ether, this body's made, and the body is subjected to pains and pleasure on account of this mixture. So Buddha philosophy is that you dismantle this mixture. Let earth go to the earth portion and water portion to the water portion. Then there is no existence of the body, and there is no pains and pleasure. Make it zero. This is called śūnyavādī. And the Māyāvādī, their philosophy is stop this variegatedness. We are suffering pains and pleasure within this material world on account of these varieties. So these varieties, they are on, built on the foundation of the Supreme Spirit. So merge into the Supreme Spirit and get out of these varieties. This is their philosophy. So the Buddha philosophy or the Māyāvāda philosophy, they're almost one, because their ultimate goal is to make things zero.



*But our philosophy is different. Our philosophy is that as there are varieties in this material world, there are varieties in the spiritual world. That varieties. Just like the sky. In the sky, there are varieties. There are different kinds of planets, floating in the sky. Ordinarily seeing, in daytime, we see the sky is vacant. How it is vacant? It is not vacant. It is the defect of my eyes that I cannot see the varieties. The vari... At night we can see the varieties. There are so many planets, so many stars. And each of them full of varieties. Just like this planet. It is, we learn from the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudādhi bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. There are innumerable universes. This universe is one only. And each and every universe, there are millions of planets. And each of them has got special significance. Just like this Moon planet, the Sun planet, this Earth planet, each one has got significance. Here, the bodies are earthly. In the Sun planet, the bodies are fire. Fiery. Similarly in the Moon planet, the bodies are different. Each and every planet.

*They do not know. They want to go with this body to the Moon planet. That is not possible. Just like if you want to live in the water with this body. That is not possible. You have to get a body suitable for living in the water. So that you have to prepare. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. These people are going to the Moon planet. Trying to go. They have not gone. But they do not know that with this body they cannot live there. That is not possible. They are, they might be going to the Moon planet in the deserted portion. And they're coming back. But Moon planet is not desert. We get information. It is one of the heavenly planets. So they, they are not going to the right place. That we have suggested in many places. So anyway, there are varieties. As there are varieties within this material world, similarly there are varieties in the spiritual world. This material world is only a reflection of the spiritual world. So unless we merge into, unless we get shelter in one of the planets of the spiritual world, if we simply merge into the Brahman effulgence, we cannot stay there for long.

*Just like in the sky. If you simply fly your aeroplane only in the sky, you don't get any shelter in any planet. You'll have to come back again. You'll have to come back again. You cannot stay in the sky. Similarly those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there because we, as living entities, we want a varieties. Just like when I was, when I was travelling in the... Everyone has got experience. Either sky or on the water. So, and for weeks together, simply water, water. And the, on board the ship, it become very much sickness. Is called sea*-sickness. As soon as there is some land visible, "Oh, there is land again." Because we want varieties. So those who are trying to merge into the variety-less Brahman effulgence, they cannot stay there. That information we get from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti adhaḥ: After great perseverance, austerity, penances, they merge into the Brahman effulgence, but they again fall down. They again fall down.

*So that is not our ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to take shelter unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas [SB 10.2.32]. Simply to concoct that I become, I have become liberated. And, that... Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. They, those who are thinking that they have become liberated simply by merging into the Brahman effulgence, they are aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, they are still, their intelligence is not very clear, not purified. Why? Now, although they have gone there, and thinking that they are liberated, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ patanti [SB 10.2.32], they'll fall down. They cannot remain there. Because there is no varieties. And our life, because we are living entities, we want varieties. Without varieties, it is hackneyed. We cannot stay there. Therefore they fall down. Those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they fall down. Go on. Therefore a bhakta does not accept the Brahman, brahmānanda. Brahmānanda, they know. Brahmānanda is, there is brahmānanda. That is liberation from the material ānanda. But unless one is engaged in sevānanda, service of the Lord, this brahmānanda will not be sufficient to keep him in the spiritual world. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "Generally neophyte devotees are anxious to see Kṛṣṇa or God, but God cannot be seen or known by our present materially blunt senses. The process of devotional service, as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion, will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations. The senses can then become uncontaminated, being constantly in touch with bhakti*-rasa. When the purified senses are employed in the service of the Lord, one becomes situated in bhakti-rasa life and any action performed for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa in this transcendental bhakti-rasa stage of life, can be relished perpetually. When one is thus engaged in devotional service, all varieties of rasas or mellows turn into eternity. In the beginning one is trained according to the principles of regulation under the guidance of the ācārya or spiritual master. And gradually, when one is elevated, devotional service becomes automatic and spontaneous eagerness to serve Kṛṣṇa. There are twelve kinds of rasas, as will be ex..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we have seen, we have experience. Sometimes the car becomes blocked. But some fellow pushes it. We have got this experience. What is called that? Chocked up? Then you get, get down and push the car and (makes noise:) brut brut brut, goes. Similarly the bhakti*-rasa is there in everyone's heart. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Because we, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like father and son. A father and son may be separate for many, many, many, many years. But as soon as they meet together, again the same affection comes. Again the same affection comes. Wife and husband. Therefore sannyāsī is strictly prohibited to see his wife. Because there is staunch affection. By meeting again that affection. By meeting again that affection may come. He may fall down. Therefore strictly prohibited. At least, other members can be seen. But not the wife. So the fact is that we have got devotion for Kṛṣṇa. That is fact. But some way or other, we are separated and we have forgotten. So as soon as, by this regulative principle, by the order of the spiritual master, by the injunction of the śāstras, we begin devotional service. That, that, just like our students do here. They are offering ārātrika. They're offering dress, offering garland. These are the items of arcana. Hearing about Him, chanting about Him. This devotional service is the pushing process. Pushing process. And as soon as the energy comes, then automatically: (makes noise) clak clak clak. No more pushing. Automatically. This pushing process is required.



So just to invoke or revive the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore this bhakti process has to be... And Kṛṣṇa also says: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. If we, because the simple process is: if you understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, tattvataḥ, in truth, then your life is successful. As soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. You don't, won't have again in this material world. Don't get any material body. You go back home, back to Godhead. And this tattvataḥ, to understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, you have to take to the devotional service. This jñāna process or the karma process or the yoga process, it can push you little further. But... Just like if you push the car little farther, but unless the energy of the car comes into action, this car will not go. Simply pushing is not sufficient. The car must come to his energy automatically. Then it will go. So that process is bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. All right. We shall discuss tomorrow. [break]

Woman: ...in the Moon planet, are there bodies like of a more subtle nature so that if they did go there, they wouldn't be able to see them?



Prabhupāda: Eh? No. You can see them. They have got material body.



Woman: We could see them with our eyes?



Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why not? The body... Just like in the water, the bodies of the aquatics are different, but you can see them. Why not? If, if, if it is not visible, how you are seeing the Moon planet? You are seeing the Moon planet. So it is visible. Not invisible. Our point is that these people... First of all, whether they are going to the Moon planet, that is doubtful. At least, I am doubtful. Because we get information from the śāstra , that there is a planet which is called Rāhu. That is very near to Moon. And that Rāhu sometimes comes in front of the Moon planet, and that is called candragrahāṇa. Moon, lunar eclipse. So that, that Rāhu planet is dark. So they might be going to this Rāhu planet, not to the Moon planet. Maybe. Because that is very near. Moon planet is heavenly planet. Heavenly planet. There, there demigods, they live. So we get this information. Or just like if somebody comes to the, this earthly planet and drops in the Arabian desert, he may conclude that this, is desert. But there is Europe, America and nice cities, and nice bungalows. But he has no chance to see them. So these people are going. They had no chance. Maybe they are also diverting them to the deserted portion of the Moon. They are also intelligent. That "These people are coming from Earthly planet unauthorized. So let them diverted to the deserted portion." There are so many things. So therefore... Because if Moon planet is heavenly planet, they're more intelligent than you. If you have got some machine to reach there, they have got some machine to divert you. Why not think like that? That "These rascals are coming here without any immigration license. Let them be diverted to the deserted portion and disappointed they'll go back." So many things are there. Therefore they are not successful. Neither they'll be ever successful. Take it. I may die. But you take it rightly. They'll never be successful. I have already written these things in my *Easy Journey to Other Planets*. This is childish. It is not possible.



Devotee: This, is there earth in their bodies or is their body made out of air?



*Prabhupāda: No. These bodies are five elements. Earth, air, water, air, fire, ether. The subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. So in some planet the earthly portion may be major, the fire portion may be major. In some planet the ether portion may be major. But they're all material bodies. They're material bodies. They're not spiritual bodies. Spiritual body is within. Within the universe, anywhere you go, you get the material body, and according to the body, the duration of life is different. Just like a germ's body. That is also material body. And a human body. That is also material body. But a germ takes birth and dies within second or minute. We live for a hundred years. Both of them material bodies. Similarly Brahmā has got also material body. Those who are living in the moon planet, they are also material body. In the sun planet, they have got material... But different varieties. They live ten thousand years of their... Daiva. Ten thousand. Daiva means our one six months equal to one day there. Such ten thousand years, they live. That is calculated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. So that is twelve hours. Sahasra-yuga. These four yugas, Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara yugas, they're forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand. That becomes Brahmā's twelve hours. So according to the different planet, according to the orbit, the time duration, the, everything is different. A ant's hundred years and my hundred years not the same. It is relative. Atomic. According to the body, according to the size... The, the world, the scientific world also accepts relative world. Everything is... [break]



*As soon as your assets of pious activities is finished, then you come back again. Instead of going back to home, you come back again on this Earth. Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Going back. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says: ei rūpe brahmāṇḍo bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. In this way, we are wandering from one life to another, one planet to another. If one is fortunate, he gets the clue of devotional service and makes his life perfect and goes back to home, back to... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. "One who goes to My abode, he never comes back." This is the perfection. Doctor, Sir you are a scientist. So how do you think our explanation? Does it tally with your scientific...?

Guest (Indian man): Our science has not come to this stage, to explain all these things.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Science has no explanation actually.



Guest: For material men like us it is not possible to accept the *Vedas*. Because we do not know. I do not see. It may not be there. But all we can say that we are still in the dark or ignorant about the...



*Prabhupāda: But we have to take knowledge from superior authority. I am always not in knowledge. That is my position. But we take knowledge from superior authority. So we are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most superior authority. [break] ...our Vedic system. It is advised, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the system. Just like you are a medical man. To acquire your knowledge, you had to accept the medical college, the professors. So this is natural. If we want to know something which is not, or which is unknown to me, then we have to accept a guru, a superior man. Guru means superior man. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Guru means "heavy," or "superior." That is the law. So our process of Vedic knowledge is that we get knowledge from the superior just like Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. He's the first, original creature, within this universe. And he got knowledge from God, Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute. The Vedas means the knowledge which he heard... Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. So there is sampradāya. Brahmā imparted this knowledge to Nārada. Nārada imparted this knowledge to Vyāsadeva. Evaṁ paramparā. That, this is our process of knowledge. We get knowledge from the superior. Everyone gets knowledge from the superior. Nobody gets knowledge automatically. That is not possible. So things which are beyond the perception of our senses, how we can get that knowledge? By our mental speculation, it is not, never perfect. We give sometimes this example: Just like we, if we want to know who is my father, that is not possible to know simply by mental speculation. If we approach the authority, mother, we get the knowledge immediately. So knowledge from the authority is perfect. Knowledge by mental speculation is always imperfect. This is our conclusion. If you get knowledge, any knowledge, from the perfect, that knowledge is perfect. And if you get knowledge from imperfect, that knowledge is always imperfect. This is our process. Therefore the Vedas says: tad vijñānārthaṁ gurum eva abhigacchet. One must approach the superior who is in knowledge. Then he gets the knowledge. [break]



*...sometimes disagree. But the, our point is very strong, that you cannot get perfect knowledge from imperfect person. That is not possible. That's a fact. You can get knowledge only from the perfect. That is real knowledge. The modern scientific knowledge, taking perfection. The next year, again changes. "This theory is changed." So they, they say that this is advancement. We are making progress. This means that whatever knowledge you are making your basis, that is imperfect. Progress means then you have to go to the perfect. That means the knowledge which you possessed, that was imperfect. Again you say... "So from imperfect platform we are going to the perfect." But if we get from the perfect this knowledge, then we get perfect knowledge, from the perfect person. Perfect person means he does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. His senses are not imperfect. And he does not cheat. This is the four points of perfection. Cheating propensity's there. To the imperfect person, there is cheating propensity. He knows that this point, "I'm not very clear, but still he gives some idea." That is cheating. There are so many... Darwin's theory. Others. "Perhaps, it may be." Like this. These words are there, used. What is the use of this "perhaps?" That means imperfect knowledge. "It may be. There is something missing." So how we can believe all this imperfect knowledge? Now we don't take this knowledge, "perhaps, maybe." Just like in the śāstra it is said: jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi. There are nine-hundred-thousands forms of aquatic life. Nine hundred-thousands. In the Vedas, it is said. It doesn't say: one more or two less. Nine-hundred-thousand. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. The living entities. So Veda, that is Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. So this is the process. Our Vedic civilization, all the great ācāryas, teachers, they accept knowledge from the Vedas. Because we accept it, Veda is perfect. Sometimes they say that Vedas are also written by human beings. No. It is not written by human being. It is heard. Therefore it is called śruti. So tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. The knowledge, Vedic knowledge was first impregnated by the Supreme Lord in the heart of Brahmā. (end)



721021ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 21, 1972



Prabhupāda:...meeting, that just now I have received one newspaper cutting. This is from South Africa. What is the city's name?



Devotee (1): Durban, Durban.



Prabhupāda: Durban. So these two young gosvāmīs, they are preaching very successfully in South Africa. And another news I have got. Where it is from...?



Devotee (1): From Satsvarūpa...



Devotee (2): Midwest.



Prabhupāda: Midwest of America. Another two gosvāmīs, they are having very successful meeting in midwest America. The, in South Africa, they're, boys... What is the age of Ṛṣi Kumāra?



Devotee (1): Twenty.



Devotee (2): Twenty.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. His age is only twenty years. Ṛṣi Kumāra Gosvāmī left and Haridāsa brahmacārī. They have come to South Africa to spread the word, "Kṛṣṇa message for S.A." South Africa. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya, the message of His Lordship is going on nicely all over the world. And you are also members of the Society. Try to preach this message. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. And you will get strength. The more you preach. Because in the Bhagavad*-gītā, the Lord says,



na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu

*kaścit me priya*-kṛttamaḥ

*ya imaṁ mad*-bhakteṣu

adhidasati... (?)



*Anyone who is preaching the message of Lord Caitanya or Lord Kṛṣṇa, the same thing... There is no difference. Kṛṣṇa said that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa's message. And Lord Caitanya says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So there is no difference. Kṛṣṇa's upadeśa is to everyone that everyone should give up all nonsense type of occupation... Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Those who are attached to the worship of demigods, they have been condemned by Kṛṣṇa: hṛta-jñānāḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has commented on this word, hṛta-jñānāḥ: naṣṭa-buddhayaḥ, "those who have lost their all intelligence." So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching the same as Lord Kṛṣṇa said and as Lord Caitanya said. Lord Kṛṣṇa said that "You surrender." He asked everyone, not only Arjuna. Through Arjuna, He spoke to everyone. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. He was preaching His own word through Arjuna. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's Kṛṣṇa Himself. He's preaching the same message as devotee. So our business is to preach this same message through the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So if we follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu...



*To follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu means to follow the six Gosvāmīs. This is called paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptaṁ imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. If we follow the paramparā system... The same message, what Kṛṣṇa said, that is also said by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that is also said by the Gosvāmīs. Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī says, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇa niveśayet. Somehow or other, try to induce people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is Gosvāmī's, Rūpa Gosvāmī's message. Where you are sitting, this is Rūpa Gosvāmī's place. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says the same thing. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So these boys, Ṛṣi Kumara Gosvāmī and others, Satsvarūpa Gosvāmī, Hṛdayānanda Gosvāmī, they're preaching the mes..., same message, Kṛṣṇa message. In the paper: "Kṛṣṇa message in South Africa." "Kṛṣṇa message in South Africa." This is very encouraging, that Kṛṣṇa message is being spread as Caitanya Mahāprabhu desired. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is very encouraging. So all of you... Of course, Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted the matter to all Indians, especially.

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*The best welfare activity is spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So it was entrusted to the, to all Indians. Any Indian who has taken birth as human being, it is the duty of him to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But anyway, although there is only one Indian, (laughter) you follow, and, and spread this message extensively. After this ūrjā*-vrata, you'll also spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness move..., message.



*The Kṛṣṇa consciousness message is kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There is no other Bhagavān. Bhagavān means full of six opulences. So Kṛṣṇa is completely, cent percent full of all opulences. Even Nārāyaṇa, He is ninety*-six percent. And Lord Śiva is eighty-four percent. And Brahmā is seventy-eight percent. These are calculated by the Gosvāmīs. So Kṛṣṇa is cent percent Bhagavān. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. Nānyat. Nobody. So simply you have to... Just like our little girl, Sarasvatī, she also preaches. She goes to some friend. She asks, "Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa?" If he says "No, I do not know very much." So she says, "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." That's all. This is preaching. It is not difficult. Simply, just like the child, you go everyone, talk to everyone that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That's all. Everyone can do it. It is not very difficult. You believe it. You be convinced on the statement that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1].

*Īśvara means controller, governor. So there are governors, many governors in your country, but there are not supreme governor. Everyone is governor. You are also governor, or īśvara, controller. But not the supreme controller. Our message is that here in this material world, there are many controllers, many governors, many īśvaras, but nobody is the supreme īśvara. Supreme īśvara means He has no controller over Him. He has no controller over Him. He's the supreme controller. Here, everyone is controller, but he has got another controller over him. But even big, big demigods... Just like Indra, Candra, Sūrya, Vāyu, Varuṇa, they have also controller. Even Lord Brahmā. He's also controlled. Only Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa*-tattva, Viṣṇu-tattva, He's not controlled. He's the supreme controller. So,

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



This is our message. So read. Why don't you keep open? No. There is no other copy? Go on. Go on. Read. [break]



*Pradyumna: "...in bhakti*-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life, free from anxieties, and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. People generally think that liberation is the ultimate goal or the full achievement. But liberation is a very insignificant thing in the presence of devotional service. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita*-kaitavaḥ atra. Dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Mokṣa means liberation. So Bhāgavata says that dharma artha kāma mokṣa, they are thrown away from the study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīdhara Swami confirms it: atra mokṣa-vāñcāḥ-paryantaṁ nirastam. A devotee is above the point of liberation. The devotional service is called pañcama-puruṣārtha. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given His opinion: premā pumartho mahān. Not dhara is pumarthaḥ. Our ultimate goal of life is neither dharma, or artha, religiosity, economic development, kāma, sense gratification, and mokṣa, liberation.



So people are very busy for economic development. They think that is the highest goal of life. To get money somehow or other; *and then, after getting money, to satisfy the senses. And when they are defeated in satisfying senses, defeated... Defeated means everyone is trying to satisfy his senses to the greatest extent. Unfortunately, māyā will now allow him to do so. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Therefore Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jātaḥ. Parābhavaḥ. The karmīs who are trying to satisfy their senses to the highest limit, they are being defeated. It cannot be. Nobody's satisfied with the senses, to the greatest extent. In Europe and America, this can very practically experienced. Many, many, old, very rich men, seventy-five years old, seventy years old, they're still going to the club for satisfying the senses. That means the sense satisfaction business cannot be completely done even to the point of death.

There are many stories. We have got practical experience that Akbar Shah inquired from his, one of his very confidential ministers that "How long a man is sexually inclined?" So the minister replied that "Up to the point of death." He replied. The Akbar did not believe it. But the minister sometimes took him to a man who was goi..., just going to die, and the minister requested Akbar Shah to get with him his young daughter. So when the Akbar Shah and his daughter was entering, the man on the death bed, he was looking to the young girl, not to the Akbar. So he pointed out, "Just see." And he was convinced, "Yes." So the sex life is so strong that you cannot be satisfied. If you re..., remain in material existence, then this sex desire will never be satisfied. But it can be satisfied only when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This Yamunācārya has said,

*yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ

*nava*-nava-(rasa)-dhāmany (udyataṁ) rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi bata nāri-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*Śrī Yamunācārya says, "Since I have been engaged in serving the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, from that time I do not any more have any desire for sex life. Even if I do remember of sex life, I want to spite on it." So this is the result. Kṛṣṇa is Madana*-Mohana. Madana-Mohana. Madana, Cupid, he agitates everyone for sex life. But if we actually be attached to see the beauty of Kṛṣṇa then we shall never be enamored by the arrows of Cupid. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. So... What is the subject matter?



Pradyumna: "...thus minimizing the value of liberation."



*Prabhupāda: So this is the position of the materialistic person. Therefore sometimes they take to the path of rejection, giving up. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. They come, by knowledge, by advancement of knowledge. But sometimes that also becomes failure. Even liberation. I have several times explained that many persons on the platform of liberation also falls down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. One who does not take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, even he is raised to the platform of liberation, there is chance of fall down. Āruhya kṛcchṛena paraṁ padam. Paraṁ padam means liberation, not material platform, but paraṁ padam. spiritual platform. Spiritual platform means liberation. So unless one is attached to... Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32], why they fall down? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. One who neglects to worship the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, even he is on the liberation platform, mukti, there is chance of falling down. And there are many examples. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Bhakti*-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling a liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa."



Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as you are engaged in the service, loving service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, immediately you feel liberation. This is practically. When you are fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if you walk on the street, you'll feel that "I am separate from these persons. I am in a, I am walking on a different path." This is the feeling. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavaḥ. This is bhakti. Pareśānubhava. You'll anubha..., you will experience yourself. That is the test. If you experience yourself that "I am different from these persons," then where is the attachment for material things? So that is the test; how much you have become advanced in devotional service, you can experience yourself. The example is given: Just like a hungry man, if he's given food, if he eats, then he experiences himself that he's getting strength, his hunger is being satisfied. The, these things will be experienced. He hasn't got to take certificate from others, "Whether I am advancing in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He'll feel himself. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava viraktir anyatra syāt. This is the test.



*Just like Gosvāmīs, the six Gosvāmīs. They were ministers. How they gave up their lucrative service, engagement? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. They gave up their minister, high posts, association of aristocratic families, maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. They were, themselves, not only maṇḍala-pati, great leaders, but they were associate with great leaders. But they gave up everything. Why? Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. They found something better in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they were able to give up. Just like you are. You are. European and American boys, you were accustomed to better, comfortable life. I know. But you have given up your better, comfortable life, and you have learned, or you are satisfied lying down on the floor, without any bedding. How you have been practiced to it? Because you are trying to find out a better engagement. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59].

*Sometimes in your country, they are surprised how we are living without furniture. Because without furniture, living is impossible. Sometimes in the beginning, when I was accommodated in some apartment, the landlord used to inquire, "Oh, where is your furniture?" So they do not know they don't require furniture. We can lie down anywhere. It doesn't matter whether in a nice apartment or on the, underneath a tree. That doesn't matter. So how these things happen? Unless one becomes little advanced, one has got little taste in devotional service, they cannot give up these material comforts. The Gosvāmīs are the best example. They were coming from very, very aristocratic family. They were, they did not join the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement out of poverty*-stricken. No. All of them, six Gosvāmīs... Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were very, very big men, ministers, very rich men. Similarly, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. He was the only son of his father and uncle. And at that time his father and uncle had twelve lakhs of rupees income. So you cannot imagine what is the exchange of twelve lakhs of rupees five hundred years ago. So very rich man. Similarly, Śrī Jīva, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, and Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī. He was the jewel of all learned philosophers. That is acknowledged even by the greatest philosophers of the world. So these six Gosvāmīs, they were not ordinary men, but still, for Caitanya Mahāprabhu's service, they left everything. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kantāśritau. So kṛṣṇa-bhakti, devotional service of Kṛṣṇa, is so exalted that a devotee can kick out even mukti. They do not want. A devotee doesn't want. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī (tvayi)

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



*So devotional service, this line of activities should not be taken for some material gain. This is not bhakti. Bhakti must be pure, cent percent pure, free from all material desires, free from the resultant action of jñāna and karma. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. In other words, if you are actually a devotee, you'll have no more interest with these material desires. Material desires means dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. They're all material desires. Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta Kaja, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī... Of course, it is spoken by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta

[Cc. Madhya 19.149]



*That is the test of kṛṣṇa*-bhakta. He has no desire. He does not want to exchange anything by serving Kṛṣṇa. That is not pure devotion. You can exchange. You can get the result. Therefore śāstra has recommended, Bhāgavata has recommended,



*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



*Akāma. Akāma means these devotees who have no desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. That is called akāma. And others are kāma, not akāma. Others, who? Bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī. Those who are desiring for material gain, bhukti, and those who are desiring after mukti, liberation. They are also kāmī. And those who are desiring after siddhis, yoga-siddhi. Aṇimā-laghimā-siddhi. So all of them are kāmīs. They are not akāma. Therefore Bhāgavata says, akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāmaḥ [SB 2.3.10]. Sarva-kāma means karmīs.



*The karmīs have no end to their desires. "Bring money, bring money, bring money, bring money." You have seen. You have got good experience in your country. Millionaires, multi*-millionaires, still working hard: "Where is money? Where is money?" Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā [SB 2.1.3]. These materialistic persons, they are engaged at night either by sleeping or by sex indulgence. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ. They are wasting their time, valuable time of this life either by sleeping or by sex at night. This is their night's business. And what is day's business.? Divā cārthehayā rājan. In the daytime, simply walking or running by cars. We have seen in your country. there are flyways and always cars, hundreds and thousands of cars. Sometimes I think that so many cars are going this way, and so many cars are going this way. Why they not settle up their business by telephone, that "I do here your business", "I do here,"? (laughter) But that is not possible. Because it is karmī, all of them running this way, whoosh-whoosh, and there is accident. Yes. So many thousands. How many thousands, they die every year? There is statistic. Yes.

*So this world, material world is like that. So divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba*-bharaṇena vā [SB 2.1.3]. And as soon as they get money, they want to purchase. The wife says, "I want so many, so much, so many dollars for my, this purpose." "All right, take it." The children says... Therefore in the Bhāgavata they are called svajanākhya-dasyu. Dasyu means burglars. So the wife and children, they are legitimate burglars. Yes. If somebody takes your money from the pocket, he becomes pickpocket, criminal, but if your wife takes it away, you very become pleased. "Oh, how my wife is nice." (laughter) So they are called svajanākhya-dasyu. It is taken as love. "How much my wife loves that (s)he is taking all my money from pocket." (laughter) So divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā [SB 2.1.3]. This is the occupational duties of the materialistic person. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is not like that. They say that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, the ideal Kṛṣṇa conscious Personality of Godhead, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa... Śrī... Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne. Vande mahā pu... What is that śloka? Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne.

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

nāmne...

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He is Kṛṣṇa. Simply He has taken the name, Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. Otherwise how one could give kṛṣṇa*-prema? Kṛṣṇa-prema can be given by Kṛṣṇa. Nobody else. So namo mahā-vadānyāya. This is the first verse, śloka uttered by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī when he met Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Prayāga, modern Allahabad. Prayāga is also named there. So he offered his prayer like this: namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. He understood that "Here is the incarnation of God who is the most munificent." Mu..., most munificent. Other incarnation of God... Even Kṛṣṇa could not give kṛṣṇa-prema. He simply ordered that "You surrender unto Me." Not that "You take Kṛṣṇa, love of Kṛṣṇa." No. He did not give. Therefore Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu came, Kṛṣṇa came again that "I did not give My love." So He came as Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt. In other incarnation, the Lord, Rāmcandra or Lord Kṛṣṇa, They did not give... Of course, those who were devotee, they automatically... But Their purpose was different. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, incarnation of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa, He specially came to distribute kṛṣṇa-prema. That is a special significance of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-prādāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*So we shall always... You have taken the path of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He will bless you if you sincerely stick to His principle, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then by His grace, you'll be able to preach His message as these boys... They have been given sannyāsa in very, I mean to say, minor age, and still, they are doing very nice. You are, all of you, you are very minor age. But take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also Himself took sannyāsa at the age of twenty*-four years. It is not that one has to accept sannyāsa in ripe old age like me, seventy years or seventy-five years. Not that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu set up the example, that for Kṛṣṇa's service one can take sannyāsa at any time. So He did it by His personal example. Tyaktvā tūrṇam... There is a verse. Just now I forget. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave up His opulent family life. When He was... He took sannyāsa. At that time, His wife was only sixteen years old, and He had His affectionate mother, Śacīdevī, very old. Nobody was to take care of him, her. But still, He took sannyāsa for giving mercy to the poor human society in this age. Therefore He's called:



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namo namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



So you follow the instruction of the Gosvāmīs, follow the path of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and try to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, and your life will be glorified.



Thank you very much. (end)



721023ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 23, 1972





*Pradyumna: (reading) "Generally, neophyte devotees are anxious to see Kṛṣṇa, or God, but God cannot be seen or known by our present materially blunt senses. The process of devotional service as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations. The senses can then become uncontaminated, being constantly in touch with bhakti*-rasa. When the purified senses are employed in the service of the Lord, one becomes situated in bhakti-rasa life, and any action performed for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa in this transcendental bhakti-rasa stage of life can be relished perpetually. When one is thus engaged in devotional service all varieties of rasas or mellows turn into eternity. In the beginning one is trained according to the principles of regulation under the guidance of the ācārya or spiritual master, and gradually, when one is elevated, devotional service becomes automatic and spontaneous eagerness to serve Kṛṣṇa. The... There are twelve kinds of rasa, as will be explained in this book, and by renovating our relationship with Kṛṣṇa in five primary rasas we can live eternally in full knowledge and bliss."



Prabhupāda: So there are three kinds of devotional stages: kaniṣṭha adhikāra, lower stage, and the madhyama adhikāra, middle stage, and uttama adhikāra. So the kaniṣṭha adhikāra means:



arcāyām eva haraye

ya pūjāṁ śraddhayahate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ



*In the lower stage, the devotee is engaged in Deity worship. It is not that Deity worship is lower than meditation. We don't mean that. Deity worship is the beginning of devotional service, as it will be mentioned in the Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, how to approach the Deity, how to cleanse the floor, how to change the dress, flower, how to make ārātrika, everything in detail there are.



*So in the beginning certainly one who is not advanced, he cannot see Kṛṣṇa properly. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not alone. Just like if we speak of king, "The king is coming," it does not mean the king is coming alone. The king is coming, his ministers, his secretaries, his military commanders, his queens, his servants, so many other servitors of the king, they are also coming. Similarly, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa does not mean alone Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. Kṛṣṇa is the root of all emanations. Kṛṣṇa's energies, Kṛṣṇa's expansion, Kṛṣṇa's different types of energies, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He has got multi-energies, out of which the ācāryas have taken three principal energies, the external energy, the internal energy, the marginal energy. Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, expansion. All together means Kṛṣṇa. So the kaniṣṭha adhikārī, in the lower stage, he thinks that he's worshiping the Deity very nicely, he has realized Kṛṣṇa. No. Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. We have to make further advancement. Kṛṣṇa does not mean alone. Especially Kṛṣṇa's devotees. They are always with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore when we can recognize a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and offer him the respect as devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that is further advancement.

In the madhyama adhikārī, or in further advancement of devotional service, one can see four categories.

*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā

sa bhakta madhyamaḥ



*Īśvara. When we are further advanced, we do not see only Kṛṣṇa, but we see His devotees also. We can recognize, "Here is a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa." But in the lower stage, a, the devotee's concerned with the Deity worship, but he does not take much care of the devotees. But when one is advanced further, he can see Kṛṣṇa and His devotees also. Īśvara tad*-adhīna. Tad-adhīna means devotees. Devotees are always under the service of Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who is giving service to Kṛṣṇa, we should take care of them also. We should offer our respect in... You'll find in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, it is stated somewhere, that if, if a devotee is coming, then another devotee who is engaged in worship of the Deity may stop Deity worship for the time being and should go immediately to receive the devotee. So Kṛṣṇa also says, mad-bhakta-pūjā abhyadhika. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied more when a devotee worships His devotee. Kṛṣṇa says, "If one is worshiping Me and one is worshiping My devotee, then the person who is worshiping the devotee, he's more important than the person who is worshiping Kṛṣṇa."



*Therefore in, in the Gurvaṣṭaka by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, it is said there: yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya aprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. The best devotee is the spiritual master. Unless one is devotee, pure devotee, how he can be spiritual master? Spiritual master means representative of God. So who can become representative of God. Unless he is twenty-four hours engaged in the service of God, Kṛṣṇa, how he can be spiritual master? This is also explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. The spiritual master is described as good as Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because the, the spiritual master is representative of Kṛṣṇa because he's most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. Kintu prabhor ya priya eva tasya. Yasya pra... Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. The spiritual master is worshiped as good as the Supreme Person. Sākṣād dharitvena. This is not artificial, but in all the śāstras, this is recommended. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Those who are learned devotees, advanced devotees, they also accept this that spiritual master should be treated as good as Hari, the Supreme Person. Why? Now...

But the spiritual master does not think of himself as Hari. Although he's offered the respect of Hari, he thinks himself as humble servant of Hari and all others. A spiritual master takes his devo..., disciples as his spiritual master. That is the position. He thinks that "Kṛṣṇa has sent me so many spiritual masters." He does not think himself as spiritual master. He thinks himself their servant. Because they have to be trained. Kṛṣṇa has appointed him to train them. Therefore he thinks himself as servant of the disciples. This is the position. So when one is advanced, he can see the importance of devotees.

Advanced devotee never disobey or disrespect another devotee. Disrespect to another devotee is a great offense. Vaiṣṇava aparādha. Vaiṣṇava aparādha is very serious offense. Therefore we teach to address amongst the devotees, "Prabhu", "Prabhu", "Such and such Prabhu." This should not be simply spoken by the lips. It should be realized. Everyone should think other devotee as his prabhu, master. Not he should try to become master.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena...



*Mānadena. We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only devotees, but everyone. Everyone. Because every living entity is originally a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But circumstantially, being covered by the coat of māyā, he's playing like demon. But his original nature is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Everyone is eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. But being influenced by māyā, when he gets this body, given by māyā... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], when he's conducted by the three guṇas of māyā, he thinks himself otherwise. He thinks himself independent of Kṛṣṇa. But actually, nobody is independent of Kṛṣṇa. I've given this example that the prisoners, the criminals in the jail, they go to jail thinking themselves to be independent of the state laws, outlaws. A criminal thinks, "I don't care for the state laws." But after all, for his activities, criminal activities, he's put into the jail. So at that time he's forced to obey the state laws. Outside the state laws, he's disobeyed. But within the prison, he's forced by punishment. Similarly, those who are defying the authorities of the Supreme Lord, they are all criminals, and they are being punished by Durgā*-devī. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44].



*So nobody is independent of the laws of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is under the obligation of the laws of the Kṛṣṇa. But one is voluntarily accepting and one is whimsically rejecting. Rejecting means to be under the control of māyā, and voluntarily accepting the service of the Lord means to be under the protection of spiritual energy. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: [Bg. 9.13] "Those who are mahātmā, they are under the protection of the spiritual energy." And those who are not mahātmās, durātmās, they are under the protection of the material energy. And the living entity is called marginal energy. Because he has to remain under the control or under the supervision of one of these two energies, material energy and spiritual energy. And he can select whether to remain under the control of material energy or under the control of spiritual energy. Therefore he's called marginal. The living entity's position is marginal, in between the two energies. So he can select. So Kṛṣṇa therefore comes to canvass that "Why you are working under material energy..."

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

karta aham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Those who are under the material energy, they are pulled by the ear of the person by the material energy. Bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. Yantrārūḍhāni. This body is a yantra, is an automobile, mechanical car. Just like I, we are placed on the motorcar and the driver moves us in different places, similarly, according to our karma, we are given a certain type of body, cat's body, dog's body, human body, this body, that body-8,400,000 species. So we are moving. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. So actually, we are under the control of the material nature. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha ātmā. Those who are fools and rascals, they are thinking "I am independent, I am God, I don't care for God," this or that... So many. So this is called mati-cchanna, madness. The Vaiṣṇava Kavi says therefore,



*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya



*Just like when a man is ghostly haunted-in Bengal it is called bhute pava (?)*-and he speaks nonsense, even his father is before him, he wants to attack his father without any respect. Madman, crazy. So anyone under this protection of the material energy-more or less, crazy. More or less. It is not only our words. It is scientifically true. I know, there was one case, a man was condemned to death and his pleader presented that "This man was in, in insanity condition. Therefore he committed this act. He may be excused." So the, a civil surgeon was invited to examine him, whether he's, actually he was in sanity condition. The civil surgeon gave evidence that so far he had treated so many patients, he saw everyone is more or less crazy." Under the circumstances, if this man is crazy, that depends on your judgement, what to do. But in my opinion, every man is a crazy man." So this is a fact. This is a fact. Anyone who is under the control of the material energy, he's a crazy man. He's thinking "I am this, I am that, I am this," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am a Muslim," "I am so on, so on, so many things." But he's nothing of all this. These are all creation of māyā.



*Just like if I am sitting on a certain type of motorcar, does it mean I am that motorcar? If I am... Suppose I am sitting on a Rolls Royce motorcar. If I say, "I am Rolls Royce," is that my identification? No. Actually... And this is a fact. If a man is driving a very nice car, and if in his front there is a thela walla... I've seen it. The driver says, "He thela." As is if that man has become thela. And he has become motor. So actually, this is the fact. Piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya. Neither he's thela, nor he's motorcar. He's living entity, pure living entity. Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When one actually is self-realized, that "I am not American, not Indian, not Hindu, not Muslim, not man, not woman. I am spirit soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi," at that time, he does not lament. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. We are fighting with one another, lamenting and hankering due to this misidentification of the self with this body.

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*svadhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma*-ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*(janeṣv abhijneṣu) sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*The Bhāgavata says that any person who is misidentifying himself with this body, kuṇape tri*-dhātuke... Yasya ātma-buddhiḥ. This body is made of three dhātus, kapha pitta vāyu, and if we identify that "I, I am kapha pitta vāyu," then certainly he's a go-kharaḥ. He's nothing more than a cow and an ass. So bhakti, devotional service begins when one is actually self-realized. Before that, sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Anyone who has got the identification of this body, he is engaged in Deity worship, but he does not actually realize his self, he does not know who is a devotee, and he does not know his duty to other persons, he remains a prākṛta-bhakta. Prākṛta-bhakta means he's situated on the material platform, but under the direction of spiritual master, under the direction of the śāstras, he's trying to improve his condition of material existence. That is called prākṛta-bhakta, sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ.



*So we should not remain perpetually a prākṛta bhakta. We must improve, madhyama*-bhakta. Madhyama-bhakta means he knows what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. He knows what is Kṛṣṇa's devotee. He knows the people in general, and he knows the atheistic persons. Four categories of persons manifest before him. It is not that the... Artificially, if we say that "In my view, everyone is the same..." That is, of course, higher stage. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. But we should not imitate that stage. Because we are in the neophyte stage, we should not imitate the vision of mahā-bhāgavata. Mahā-bhāgavata does not see anyone nondevotee. He sees everyone better devotee than himself. Just like Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. He writes in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta:

jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha

purīṣera kīṭa muñi se lagiṣṭha



*So he's not pretending. Actually, a mahā*-bhāga, bhāgavata, thinks like that, that "I am the lowest." But he's the highest. One who thinks like that, humble...



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena...



*He wants to give respect to everyone, but he doesn't expect any respect for him, himself. That is mahā*-bhāgavata. And if one wants respect for him, that means he's still in kaniṣṭha adhikārī. A mahā-bhāgavata is ready to give respect to, even to the ant. And for himself he doesn't any, want any respect. That is mahā-bhāgavata. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā. For himself, he doesn't require any respect. Mānadena. But he's ready to give respect to everyone, even to the ant. That is mahā-bhāgavata. So generally, we are in the lower stage of devotional service. Just like generally, people come to res..., offer respect to the Deities in the temple, but one does not know how to give respect to the devotee, how to help others to become devotee. They are in the lowest stage. A devotee should not only give respect to the devotees, but he should try to make others a devotee. That is, means preaching. Preaching. The preaching...



*What is the meaning of this preaching. People are engaged in material activities, and the preacher should approach them that "You are spoiling your time, my dear sir. You become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." This is preaching. "You are simply spoiling. You have got this human form of life, but you are utilizing like animals*-eating, sleeping, mating and defending. You may be very great political leader, but your engagement is like animal." That is the fact. What these politicians do? They make arrangement for eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That's all. They promise that "I shall give you nice eating. You give me vote. I'll... Make me minister of food. I shall give you enough food." Or so many things, they falsely promise, or rightly promise. They know. So actually, minister or minister's father cannot give you food. The food is supplied by Kṛṣṇa. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.

*So anyway, the kaniṣṭha adhikārī is just learning how to become devotee and he is, by regulative principles, engaged in Deity worship, and gradually he's raised to the platform of madhyama adhikārī. And madhyama adhikārī means he knows what is the position of God, Kṛṣṇa, what is the position of devotee, what is the position of people in general, and what is the position of a, of an atheist. Atheists, there are. So īśvare tad*-adhīna, or the devotees, īśvara tad-adhīna bāliśa. Bāliśa means innocent persons. And īśvare tad-adhī..., bāli, dviṣatsu. Dviṣat means envious. There are many persons... You have experienced. As soon as they hears something about God, they become immediately irritated. That is called dviṣatsu, demon. So a madhyama adhikārī devotee can see these four kinds of persons, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, His devotees, and innocent persons, and the atheist class, demons. So he treats all these four classes... So he, īśvare tad, tad-adhīna...

*So prema. He tries to love God. He sees the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore his business with the Supreme Personality of Godhead is how to increase his love for the Supreme Personality. That is one business of the madhyama adhikārī. And how to make friendship with the devotees. Loving God, Kṛṣṇa, and making friendship with devotees, who is devotee. Not to become envious of the devotees, but to make friendship. If the devotee is uttama adhikārī, he should take lessons from him. If he's equal, then he should make friendship with him. And if he's lower, then he should try to help him to become higher devotee. This is the business of devotee. Īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. Īśvara, to love Kṛṣṇa, how to increase... Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Simply to increase. How I can better, render better service to Kṛṣṇa. This is one business. Another business is to make friendship. Anyone who is devotee, to make friendship with him. And other, bāliśeṣu, those who are innocent, those who are not offender, but innocent persons... Just like child, simple, They should preach amongst them Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because they are innocent. And those who are dviṣat, demons, simply against God, they should avoid them. Avoid them. Don't go there for preaching. Neither to love them. Of course, everyone should be loved, but according to the time and circumstances. So for a preacher who is trying to do good to the innocent persons, who, one who does not know how to love God, what is God, a preacher's business is to teach him. And not to waste his time with the demons, one who is not interested in the matter of God.

*But when you are raised to the highest platform of devotional service, then there is no more dviṣatsu. No more friend, no more dviṣat. Everyone, a mahā*-bhāgavata sees that "Everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord, except myself." That is mahā-bhāgavatas vision. But we should not imitate that. Just like I was, I was giving the example of Caitanya-caritāmṛta author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. He's speaking that

jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha

purīṣera kīṭa muñi se lagiṣṭha



*He's not imitating, or he's speaking falsely. He feels like that. A mahā*-bhāgavata feels like that, that "I am the lowest." Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, āmāra jīvana sada pāpe rata nāhika puṇyera leśa (?). He says like that, that "My life is always engaged in sinful activities. I've not a trace of pious activity." Āmāra jīvana sada ape rata nāhika puṇyera leśa. "I have given so much distress to all other living entities." He's representing common man. But he's feeling like that. It is not that artificially speaking. He's feeling like that. Just like Rādhārāṇī. She thinks always Herself as the lowest of the devotees. She thinks always. She sees always that the gopīs, other gopīs, they are better qualified to serve Kṛṣṇa. And She is not qualified, so much qualified. Therefore in Vṛndāvana, you'll find, the devotees approach Rādhārāṇī. "Jaya Rādhe." Because if Rādhārāṇī advocates for him to Kṛṣṇa, it is very easily accepted. And Rādhārāṇī says... If Rādhārāṇī's pleased, then She represents the devotee's case that "Here is a devotee. He's better than Me. Kindly accept his service, Kṛṣṇa." So Kṛṣṇa cannot deny. So mahā-bhāva. Rādhārāṇī is mahā-bhāva.



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu displayed that mahā*-bhāva. That mahā-bhāva is not possible for ordinary man. It is especially prerogative of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and who played the part of Rādhārāṇī, although He's Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So mahā-bhāva, the ecstasies, that is not to be imitated by us, but to be aware of this fact that how mahā-bhāgavata, mahā-bhāva, they treat with Kṛṣṇa. So generally, advancement, especially those who are preachers, they should remain on the second platform. Even a mahā-bhāgavata, when he becomes preacher, he comes down to the second platform. He does not remain on the topmost platform. He plays the part of second platform. And sometimes it is stated in the Bible, I think, that Jesus Christ said, "I had many things to say, but I am not saying." Is it not? So actually, the mahā-bhāgavata, he has many things to say, but because he's preacher he does not say everything to the neophyte devotees. Because they are not competent to accept that. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu...

*The best example is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He's playing the part of mahā*-bhāgavata. He never discussed Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā publicly. Never discussed. You won't find any time that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is discussing rasa-līlā publicly. No. Never. He was, He simply dealt with ordinary persons by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and whenever there were scholars, there were philosophers... Just like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, He talked with some philosophy, Vedānta-sūtra. And when there was high-class devotee like Rāmānanda Rāya, He discussed about Kṛṣṇa's līlā. You'll find this. Not that with everyone He discussed Kṛṣṇa's līlā. No. Neither He discussed philosophy with everyone. But for the general public, so long He remained at Jagannātha Purī, every evening, He was simply organizing great saṅkīrtana party. And for four hours, at least, He was going on saṅkīrtana in four parties. We have studied this thing from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, or Teachings of Lord Caitanya, that from the dealings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, because although He's Kṛṣṇa Himself, He's playing the part of ācārya, playing the part of devotee.

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*Bhaktākhyaṁ bhaktāvatāraṁ namāmi bhakta-śaktikam, pañca*-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇam. So we should follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the six Gosvāmīs, and gradually, let us learn what is devotional service, how to execute it. Everything is very nicely explained in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu which we have presented herewith as "The Devo..., Nectar of Devotion, the Complete Science for the Bhakti-yoga." So first of all, we should take advantage of these granthas, and then gradually make progress. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore says that kabe hāma bujhabo śrī yugala-pīriti.



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhabo śrī yugala*-pīri...



*Without understanding, Rūpa*-Raghunātha, or without going through the literatures given by Rūpa-Raghunātha, if we jumpingly, all of a sudden, try to become a devotee of Rādhā Kṛṣṇa... If course, our aim is to become devotee of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but how to become Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, we must study these books, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu especially.



Thank you very much. (end)



730101ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 1, 1973



*Pradyumna: (reading:) Nectar of Devotion. "This eternal engagement in bhakti*-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life free from anxieties and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to bring a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Generally, neophyte devotees are anxious to see Kṛṣṇa, or God, but God cannot be seen or known by our present materially blunt senses. The process of devotional service as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status, wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The process of seeing God... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]]. Just like a person suffering from some disease, his eyesight is blocked. He has got the eyesight to see, but on account of some cataract disease, he cannot see. Similarly God is there, and I can see Him also. But the cataract of illusion is covering via media between God and me. Therefore in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said:



*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yam śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



That treatment is to invoke your dormant love for God. That is the treatment. We have got love for God. We want to love somebody, either man or woman, even animals. You'll find between the two dogs, there is love. They are jumping over one another, playing very nicely. Sometimes the mother dog is pretending to bite the cub, but it actually it is not biting.



*So this loving propensity is there, living entity. Every living entity-it doesn't matter whether he is man or animal-the love is there. But at the present moment, it is being pervertedly reflected. Just like love between Kṛṣṇa and mother Yaśodā, that love is reflected here also between the mother and the child, the same love. Because unless there is love in the Absolute, there cannot be any exhibition of love in the relative world. The Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The, everything is emanating from the Absolute. So there is love. Just like Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa love, Kiśora-kiśorī, young Kṛṣṇa, young Rādhārāṇī. This love is pervertedly reflected in this material world which is in the name of love, but it is lust; *therefore it is called perverted reflection. Lust because the, a young boy, a young girl mix together, they love together, but a slight disagreement, they separate. Why? Because that is not love. That is lust. The lust is going on in the name of love. But the reflection is from there. Therefore it is called māyā. The same love between father and mother, father and son, vātsalya*-rasa, mādhurya-rasa, sākhya-rasa, friendship... Here, we have got friends, but a slight disagreement, we separate. Master and servant-dāsya-rasa. A servant is very faithful so long you pay. As soon as you stop payment, no more service. Finished.

*Therefore it is to be understood that the love with Kṛṣṇa in the platform of mādhurya*-rasa, vātsalya-rasa, sākhya-rasa, dāsya-rasa, śānta-rasa, that is the real platform, in the spiritual world. And because the love affairs are there in the Absolute, that is reflected in this relative world. And here is also the same love is there, but it is not very palatable. It is not without any fault. There are so many faults. Therefore real love can be reciprocated with Kṛṣṇa. In the material world, there cannot be any real love. Therefore the real love cannot be appreciated with our, this material senses. Whatever we appreciate or experience by the material senses, that is not love, that is lust. Motive. There is some motive. One is friend of another person, very intimate friends, both of them have got some motive. As soon as the motive is frustrated, they separate. These things, we find. Even husband and wife, as soon as the sense gratification is disturbed, immediately there is divorce between husband and wife. So... (aside, in response to background noise:) What is this outside?

Devotee: Outside... Next door...



Prabhupāda: That's all right. No. Doesn't matter.



Devotee: Shut these doors.



Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to invoke our love for Kṛṣṇa. Then our loving propensities will be actually satisfied. Otherwise we'll be frustrated. Otherwise, we'll be frustrate... That is going on. We may admit or not admit, but this frustration of love affair is going on. So if we... That same thing we repose in Kṛṣṇa. If I want to love my son, if I accept Kṛṣṇa as my son... Just like Yaśodāmayī accepted. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but by devotional service, He agrees to become a son. Just like Yaśodāmayī and Nanda Mahārāja, in their previous lives they underwent severe austerities, and their aim was that "We shall have a son like God, like Kṛṣṇa." So after their performance of austerities for many thousands of years, when Kṛṣṇa appeared before them, "What benediction you want?" so they proposed that "We want a son like You. Then we enter into family life. Otherwise not." So Kṛṣṇa said that "Why shall I get a son like Me? I shall become your son." This is the fact. Therefore, although Kṛṣṇa took His birth as the son and, sons of Devakī and Vasudeva, immediately ordered Vasudeva to transfer Him to Vṛndāvana to Yaśodā. So the pleasure of having son was enjoyed by Yaśodā and Nanda Mahārāja, not Devakī and Vasudeva, although they really gave birth to... And when Kṛṣṇa was grown up, then went to His real father, Vasudeva, and Devakī. So actually Kṛṣṇa's crawling, Kṛṣṇa's disturbing the mother, Kṛṣṇa's stealing the butter, and so many things, as child does, reciprocates with the father and mother, parent, these līlā was demonstrated in Vṛndāvana, although mother Yaśodā and Vasudeva, I mean to say, Nanda Mahārāja, they were foster father and mother.



*So everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as his sons. Everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as his friend. Everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as his master. Dak, dāsya*-rasa, sākhya-rasa, mādhurya-rasa. Even everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as their paramour. These things are very difficult to understand, but these rasas... They are called rasas. Parakīya-rasa. The parakīya-rasa means just like a man or woman has got his husband or wife, but he has got love with others. That is called parakīya-rasa. That is most abominable in this material world, but that is most first-class thing in the spiritual world. Parakīya-rase yāṅhā brajete pracāra. So these things are very higher principles of spiritual life. But we can understand that whatever we are experiencing in this material world, that thing, in its pure form, is existing in the Supreme Absolute. That is the fact. Otherwise they cannot be manifested in this material... Just like on the bank of a tank, pond, there is a tree, and you find the tree just upverted. The upper portion of the tree has gone down. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out in the Fifteenth Chapter: ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākhaṁ aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam [Bg. 15.1]. Find out this verse. This material world is the reflection, urdhva mulam. Generally the tree has got its root down, but the material world... So... It is described as a big banyan tree, but the root is upwards. Read it.

Pradyumna:



śrī bhagavān uvāca

*ūrdhva*-mūlam adhah-śākham

aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam

chandāṁsi yasya parṇāni

*yas taṁ veda sa veda*-vit

[Bg. 15.1]



*Prabhupāda: Yas taṁ veda sa veda*-vit. What is the translation?



Pradyumna: "The Blessed Lord said: There is a banyan tree which has its roots upward and its branches down and whose leaves are the Vedic hymns. One who knows this tree is the knower of the *Vedas*."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. One who knows this tree, he knows the Vedas. That means the Vedas says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. That is the Vedānta*-sūtra. Wherefrom this material world is coming? That is Absolute Truth. The atheist class men, they cannot think that there is a cause. In the Sixteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā: jagad āhur anīśvara. Jagad āhur anīśvara. What is that? Find out. Sixteenth Chapter. They say that this material cosmic manifestation, manifestation, this world is... Uh? Uh?



Pradyumna: Could we have the verse again?



Devotee: Jagad ahur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8].



Prabhupāda: No, that is the last word. You find out, Sixteenth Chapter.



Pradyumna: Tasmāc chāstraṁ pramāṇaṁ te...



Prabhupāda: No, no, no. In the beginning. Beginning, read, Sixteenth Chapter.



Pradyumna:



*abhayaṁ sattva*-saṁśuddhir

*jñāna*-yoga-vyavasthitiḥ

dānaṁ damaś ca yajñaś ca

svādhyāyas tapa ārjavam



ahiṁsā satyam akrodhas

tyāgaḥ śāntir apaiśunam

dayā bhūteṣv aloluptvaṁ

mārdavaṁ hrīr acāpalam



tejaḥ kṣamā dhṛtiḥ śaucam

adroho nāti mānitā

bhavanti sampadaṁ daivīm

abhijātasya bhārata

[Bg. 16.1-3]



Prabhupāda: Daivīm. These are daivī sampada, spiritual qualifications. And what is the material qualification? Next?



Pradyumna:



dambo darpo 'bhimānaś ca

krodhaḥ pāruṣyam eva ca

ajñānaṁ cābhijātasya

pārtha sampadam āsurīm

[Bg. 16.4]



Prabhupāda: Āsurīm. These are the āsurīm qualities. Read the translation.



Pradyumna: "Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance; these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Prtha."



Prabhupāda: Yes. The first word, the most important thing is that ignorance. They do not know actually things as they are, but still they become leader. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānām. Then what is their other qualities? Go on.



Pradyumna:



daivī sampad vimokṣāya

nibandhāyāsurī matā

mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm

abhijāto 'si pāṇḍava

[Bg. 16.5]



Prabhupāda: Daivī sampad. If you acquire daivī sampad, then you become liberated from this material bondage. But if you acquire the asuric sampad, then you become entangled. Go on, next?



Pradyumna:



*dvau bhūta*-sargau loke 'smin

daiva āsura eva ca

daivo vistaraśaḥ prokta

āsuraṁ pārtha me śṛṇu

[Bg. 16.6]



Prabhupāda: Now Kṛṣṇa says that there are two kinds of men, two classes of men. One class, daiva, or demigods, the other class, asura. So "I've spoken many things about the daivas. Now I shall speak about the symptoms of the asuras." What is the asuras?



Pradyumna:



pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca

janā na vidur āsurāḥ

na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate

[Bg. 16.7]



Prabhupāda: Now describe this.



Pradyumna: "Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not be done."



Prabhupāda: That is the first qualification of the demons. They do not know what is right doing and what is wrong doing. Suppose we, just like we restrict anyone who comes to our camp to become our student, we restrict that "You should not do this" or "You should do this." Anywhere, if you go to a physician, he'll say also that "You shall do this." Some "do's" and some "do not's." So the asuras, they do not know, because they have no direction, they do not know what are the "do's" and what are the "do not's." This is the first qualification of the asuras. They do not know. Because they do not like to take lesson from superior. They manufacture their own lesson. Then?



Pradyumna:



na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate

[Bg. 16.7]



Prabhupāda: Now... Then?



Pradyumna: Asatyam apratiṣṭham...



Prabhupāda: This is the... Asatyam... This is the first word. Asatyam.



Pradyumna: Apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad...



Prabhupāda: Jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8]. This is their first proposition. There is zero, asatyam. (pause) I, I... Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te. They, they do not find out that there is a cause of this material manifestation. Without any cause. The materialistic scientists say, "There was a chunk, and..." What is that? Chunk theory? Come on. So that all of a sudden the chunk became disturbed and there was... And the creation came into existence. So jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8]. "There is no God. There is no existence of God." Every religion says... The Christian religion also says, the Muhammadan religion says, the Hindu religion says that God created this cosmic manifestation or this material world. But the asuras will say, "There is no God. There is no creator." Jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8]. Then?



*Pradyumna: Aparaspara*-sambhūtaṁ kim anyat kāma-haitukam.



*Prabhupāda: Aparaspara*-sambhūtaṁ kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Just like a man and woman accidentally unite and there is a child, similarly, there is no purpose. Somehow or other, the material energy came into existence, and therefore there is creation. This is their argument. This is asuric argument, or the demoniac argument. But the Vedas says, "No." Vedas says that janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. There is original. Absolute Truth, or God, is He from (whom) everything emanates. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. And that God must be sentient. He's not zero. Not zero. The śūnyavādi. He has got brain. He's person. That is explained. The Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Now they, that Absolute Truth, from where everything is emanating, is discussed in the beginning of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Bhāgavatam is accepted as the real commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra. Real commentary. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. Vedārtha paribṛṁhitam. These are the statements. This is accepted by the ācāryas. In the Gauḍīya-sampradāya, therefore, the Gosvāmīs, they did not write any comment on the Vedānta-sūtra although other ācāryas like Rāmānujācārya, Mādhavācārya, they wrote commentaries on the Bhagavad, uh, Vedānta-sūtra. But our Gosvāmīs, they did not write purposefully, because they accept that there is already natural perfect commentary written by the same author, Vyāsadeva, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānām **.



*So Vedānta*-sūtra says, answer, the first aphorism is: athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahman, the Absolute, that is the main business of the human life, to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Here everything is relative truth. I am the son of my father. My father is the son of his father. His father is the son of his father. You go on. Everything is relative. But who is the Absolute? Who is the Absolute? That inquiry is called Brahma-jijñāsā. Who is the original father? Then if you go on searching like that, within this universe you'll find Lord Brahmā is the origin. He's called, therefore, pitāmaha, Lord Brahmā. But if you still inquire further, who is the father of Brahmā, then you come to Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. From the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, from His abdomen, there sprouted a lotus flower, and (on) the lotus flower, Brahmā was born. Therefore Brahmā's another name is Svayambhūr. He did not come out through the womb of his mother, although the mother was present. Kar..., Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, we have seen the picture. Lakṣmījī is massaging the lotus feet of Viṣṇu, and Brahmā is sprouted from the abdomen. So this is called omnipotency. Generally we have got this idea that a child is born from the yoni, but here Kṛṣṇa gives birth to a child without the help of His wife and from His abdomen. This is called omnipotency. We say, "God is omnipotent," but how God is omnipotent, that we do not know practically. Here is omnipotency. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*Kṛṣṇa, He can act anything with any limb, part of His body. Kṛṣṇa can eat with His eyes, and Kṛṣṇa can hear with His eyes. Kṛṣṇa can cut by touching. These are there in the śāstras. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when, when entered Mathurā, He asked the washerman of Kaṁsa to deliver some cloth, but he refused. So Kṛṣṇa immediately cut off his head with His hand without any obstacle. So that is omnipotency. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti paśyanti pānti kalayanti... [Bs. 5.32]. Just like we offer prasādam. We offer foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa. Atheist class will say that "You have offered Kṛṣṇa this foodstuff, but He has not eaten. It is there still lying." No. He does not see. He does not know that Kṛṣṇa can eat simply by His glance, by seeing. He eats. Because He says in the Bhagavad-gītā that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati tad aham aśnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. Is He speaking lies? No. He eats, but we do not know His eating process. We compare Kṛṣṇa as ourself. If one plate is given to me, I immediately devour the whole thing. But Kṛṣṇa, He is complete. He can eat the complete; still it remains complete. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation].



So in this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa from the śāstra, from the *Vedas*. Then we shall understand Kṛṣṇa. And once we understand Kṛṣṇa, our life is successful. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa in truth, his life is perfect. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. The perfection of life is that after giving up this body, we shall not accept any more material body. That is perfection. The people do not know that. They think... People, the karmīs, they think that "If we get a nice body in the heavenly planet, that is perfection of life." Svargaloka. And the jñānīs, they think that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul. But somehow or other, if we finish my body, and merge into the Brahman effulgence, that is perfection of life." The yogis, they think that "We may keep this body, but with this body, if we can play some jugglery, magic, that is perfection of life." Sometimes we see somebody plays some jugglery, magic, little magic, not very nice magic... One cannot show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill with little finger. So who can show this magic? There are so many imitation Gods, but if I ask him that "You just lift this one hundred kilo burden with your finger," it will be very difficult for him. You see.

So this kind of magic, or this kind of perfection, the devotees do not want. The devotees, they say... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching us,

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



*This is devotee. Therefore devotee's called akāma. They have no demand. They are satisfied in any condition of life. But they only pray to Kṛṣṇa that his devotion to Kṛṣṇa may not be disturbed. May not be disturbed. He doesn't want anything in exchange of his devotional service. That is pure devotion. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. When we engage ourself in this pure, unadulterated devotional service, then we qualify ourself to see God. So long we are not pure devotees... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. And when that stage of bhakti comes in?



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*When one has (become) self*-realized. Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So long we are identifying with this body, identifying with this material existence, bodily, bodily existence, that is animal life. That is not human life. A human being, if he exists in this bodily concept of life, he remains animal. But when he is advanced in knowledge, he understands that he is not this body; he's different from this body.



*That we are discussing in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad*-gītā: idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetram iti abhidhīyate. Idaṁ śarīram. This śarīra is field of activities. One should not identify with this body. So when one actually understands his spiritual position, that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, he's brahma-vatsu... It is not we become Brahman by meditation or by somebody. We are Brahman, but we have now forgotten. Jīva-bhūta. At the present moment, because I'm identifying with this body, I'm thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian, " "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Vaiṣṇava," "I am this or that." No. When we are actually brahma-bhūtaḥ, as explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. That is self-realization. When we understand perfectly well that "I am eternal servant of God," servant... I'm not God; I'm servant of God. But one cannot be servant of God without becoming God. That they do not know, the Māyāvādī philosophers. Servant... Just like if one becomes secretary or servant of a very big man, he's in the same position. He's sitting on the same place. He's eating the same way. He's in the same atmosphere. So everything is same. Simply the relationship is different. That's all. So when one goes to the spiritual world... Just like the cowherd boys, the gopīs, they are on the same platform of Kṛṣṇa. They do not think that "We are lesser than Kṛṣṇa." The cowherds boy, they sometimes chastise Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is obliged to take them on the shoulder. Sometimes. They do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God, or "Kṛṣṇa is greater than me." That is the position. Equality.

Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī said:

*itthaṁ (satāṁ) brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nara*-dārakeṇa

*sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



*These cowherd boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, they are not ordinary human being. They are very, very advanced in spiritual assets. Kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ. When they are... Just like you accumulate money. When you have got too much accumulation, ten crores of rupees, like that... When one's pious activities becomes accumulated in voluminous attitude, at that time, one is... That means when one is completely free from the material contamination, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. When one has, one is actually learned, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A devotee has no distinction between this living entity or that living entity.



*vidyā*-vinaye-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*This sama*-darśinaḥ, equality, cannot be possible in material vision. That is not possible. One must elevate himself to the spiritual platform. Then paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. That is after brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Brahmā bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. When one has attained this stage, then he can enter mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. That is, that is really bhakti's platform. That bhakti platform means elimination of all material contamination.



*So one who becomes engaged immediately in pure devotional service, he immediately becomes liberated. Immediately. Without any distant time. Immediately. Tad kṣaṇāt śraddhā bhavati, śraddhā savanāya kalpate. Jīva Gosvāmī (says) that one who, even one is born in the lowest degree, śva*-pācaḥ, śraddhā savanaya kalpate, he becomes immediately eligible for performing sacrifices. There are śāstra evidences. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī says,

*kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā

ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ

*ye 'nye ca pāpā yad*-apāśrayāśrayāḥ

śudhyanti (tasmai) prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ

[SB 2.4.18]



*Even born in kirāta family, the aborigines... They, these, these names are of the caṇḍālas. They are not Aryans. Non*-Aryans. So kirāta-hūṇā... In the Bhagavad-gītā also Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Pāpa-yoni. Striya śūdra tathā vaiśyās te 'pi yānti paraṁ gatim. Immediately. So the devotional service is so nice, practical, that simply if you take to this devotional service, immediately you become sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Then we are describing how to become brahma-bhūtaḥ. So brahma-bhūtaḥ means,



māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Immediately he's raised to the brahma*-bhūtaḥ platform.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we are trying to engage everyone in pure devotional service. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Pure devotional service means to serve Kṛṣṇa without any motive. That is pure. Without any motive. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Not by rendering service to Kṛṣṇa, if one aspires to become liberated. That is the jñānī's aspiration. They want to merge into the existence of Brahman. Therefore pure devotional service should be uncontaminated with that jñāna idea also. Jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. The karmīs, they want to be promoted to the higher planetary systems, heavenly planet. The jñānīs, they want to become liberated. The yogis, they want some mystic power. But a devotee should be free from all these things. No mystic power, no elevation to the heavenly planet, no merging into the exi... Never mind. What Kṛṣṇa desires, that's all right. He does not dictate anything, or he desires anything. That is pure devotional service. So there are many śāstric injunctions. Evaṁ prasanna-mana... So long you have got demand, you cannot be happy. That is one thing. Either you demand to be elevated to the heavenly planet, or you demand to be one with the Brahman, these are demands. Or if you want some mystic power, these are all demands. So, so long you'll have demand, you'll never be happy. You'll never be happy. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. Aśānta. Bhukti means the karmīs, those who are demanding to, to be elevated in the heavenly planets, or higher planetary system for more, more elevated material happiness, they are called bhukti. Bhukti-kāmī-bhoga, enjoyment of the bodily concept of life. They are called bhukti-kāmī. Bhukti and mukti. Mukti means the jñānīs, they want to be liberated from material bondage and merge into the existence of Brahman, Absolute. That is mukti. Bhukti, mukti and siddhi. And the yogis, they want siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi. Aṇimā, laghimā. They can become more smaller than the smallest, bigger than the biggest. Prāpti, īśitā vaśitā prākāmya. There are eight kinds of siddhis the yogis can attain. But a devotee does not want all these things. He has no demand. These are the three demands: bhukti-mukti-siddhi. But devotee has no demand. That is the special qualification. Devotee never demands anything. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, as soon as appeared Kṛṣṇa, he said: svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. "I don't say." So this is pure devotee. And as soon as you become pure devotee, then your love for Kṛṣṇa becomes actual fact in the spiritual world, and you can associate with Kṛṣṇa in conjugal love or as parent, or as friend, or as servant, in whatever... Or as trees or flower, as a water, as you desire. That is perfection of life. This is the perfection of bhakti.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730102ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 2, 1973



*Pradyumna: (reading:) "The process of devotional service as it is recommended in The Nectar of Devotion will gradually elevate one from the material condition of life to the spiritual status, wherein the devotee becomes purified of all designations. The senses can then become uncontaminated, being constantly in touch with bhakti*-rasa. When the purified senses are employed in the service of the Lord, one becomes situated in bhakti-rasa life, and any action performed for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa in this transcendental bhakti-rasa stage of life can be relished perpetually."



*Prabhupāda: So Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī is giving us the process how to elevate one's self from this material platform to the spiritual platform. That is devotional service. Devotional life means purifying the present conditional life, contaminated life, life under the influence of the three modes of material nature: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if we become unaffected by these three guṇas... Just like it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, trai-guṇya-viṣayā vedā nistrai-guṇya bhavārjuna. One has to become above the three guṇas, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. In the material existence, the sattva-guṇa is considered to be first class, the rajo-guṇa is considered to be second class, and the tamo-guṇa is considered to be third class. But even if we remain in the sattva-guṇa, that is also not transcendental platform. Sattva-guṇa means brahminical qualification. Satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. These, these are the symptoms of sattva-guṇa. But rajo-guṇa-tejo īśvara bhāvaś ca yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. Just like kṣatriyas: They're very powerful. They want to control. They are not afraid of fighting. These are kṣatriya qualifications. Rajo-guṇa. Creative power. They want to expand their kingdom, ruling over the people, taxing the people. These are the qualification of the rajo-guṇa. And tamo-guṇa means śūdra, ignorance and lazy. That is tamo-guṇa. These are the symptoms. They have no activity. They cannot become independent, because they are very lazy. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they have their independent life, but the śūdras, they are dependent. Therefore śūdra... Just like a dog. A dog, if he has no master, it is street dog. It has no value. It must be chained by a very big master. That is his life. And he very voluntarily agrees: "Come here." "Yes." So paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Paricaryā, to satisfy the master.



*So our, this bhakti process is also the same. Sometimes we are criticized: "Slave mentality." Yes, we want voluntarily to become slave*-of Kṛṣṇa. We are, at the present moment, we are slave of the senses. Kāma krodha moho mātsarya. Kāmādi. Kāmādi means kāma, desire to enjoy. And if our enjoyment, if our desire is not fulfilled, then we become krodhi, angry; lobhi, moha mātsarya. The material existence means we are servant of so many sense gratificatory processes. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. We are now engaged to act sinfully. Any kind of sinful activity we can accept. Why? Yad indriya prītaya āpṛnoti. Simply for sense gratification. That's all. We are prepared to take any risk only for sense gratification. But we do not know that we are taking great risk, great risk. Because there is another life. After death, there is life. The modern people, they do not understand it. Therefore śāstra says, na sādhu manye: "These kinds of activities are not very good." Na sādhu. It is not honest. This is not good. Yato ātmano ayam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. We have got this body. That is kleśada. Just like we are feeling warm; therefore we want this fan, because the, on account of this body, we are feeling warm. Or sometimes chilly. So if I feel chilly, then I have to stop this fan. I'll have to cover this body. So all our pains and pleasure are due to this material body. That we do not understand. Śāstra says, asann api. Although this body's temporary, but it is kleśada, it is full of miserable condition: ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika.

*So for our past karma, we have created this body and we are suffering. Therefore our mission should be not to create another body. And finish all suffering in this body and do not create another material body*-that is actually our duty. But we have no education. We have no information. Our leaders are blind, foolish. They are leading us to misuse this valuable life of human form. This is our position. They are misleading us. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. They are impressing in us that "You are this body. You are born in this country. So your country, your nation is worshipable. Why you are after Kṛṣṇa? This is all bogus." This is our position. "Don't be after Kṛṣṇa. Just try to satisfy the senses of your body to the best capacity. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy life. And next life? Oh, next life... That... Don't care." The atheist philosopher, Cārvāka Muni says, bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet: "Don't care for next life." This is going on now: atheism. Big, big professors, educationists, they're also in this opinion. I have traveled all over the world. One Russian professor said, "Swamijī, after this life, there is no... Everything is finished." But that's not the fact. That is the defect of modern education. There is life. There is life. Otherwise why there are so many varieties of life? We should consider that.

*So bhakti, bhakti means to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. To understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, that is bhakti. Or by bhakti, by devotional service, you can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa cannot be understand, understood by karma, jñāna, yoga. Partially, they can understand, but not fully. Karma, jñāna... Therefore Kṛṣṇa especially mentions, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Na karmaṇā na jñānena na yogena. Nāhaṁ tiṣṭhāmi vaikuṇṭhe yoginaṁ hṛdayeṣu. Yoga process or jñāna process can elevate... Of course, we become... The Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that out of millions of karmīs, one jñānī is first class, because he understands things as they are, that "I am not this body. I am Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi." So therefore he's better than millions of karmīs who are simply working like an ass and dogs. They do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. They do not know what is the next life, what is the aim of life. They do not know. They are simply working for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And doing all kinds of sinful activities. Yad indriya*-prītaya. The only aim is how to satisfy senses. That is karmī.

*So out of such millions of fools who are working hard... They have been described just like asses. The asses work very hard for..., for the washerman, not for himself. He does not work for himself. Therefore the karmīs are called asses, mūḍhāḥ. The ass is satisfied with a morsel of grass and working very hard for the washerman. This is ass's qualification. The śāstras, they have selected some animals: śva*-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The... Generally, population, general population, they are just like dogs, śva; *viḍ*-varāha, the stool-eater, hog. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra, camel. And kharaiḥ, and ass. They have been selected. So... Just like... Why they are compared with the dog? Because the dog is searching after a master. Without master, he cannot live. So those who cannot live independently, they are just like dogs. (indistinct) so many things, explanation. Viḍ-varāha. Viḍ-varāha means no distinction of eating. Anything. Any damn thing, any nonsense thing up to stool, they can eat. They, are, they are called viḍ-varāha. And uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means that he's eating his own blood, thorny twigs. The uṣṭra, you know, the kharaiḥ, I mean, the camel, in the desert, there is only thorny twigs. Because there are uṣṭras... There is no other animal. And there are some date trees also, for the human being. Kṛṣṇa has provided everything. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Even in the desert Kṛṣṇa has provided food. So this uṣṭra, this camel, they like to eat these twigs, thorny twigs. And as soon as they chew the thorny twigs, blood oozes out from the tongue, and it is mixed and it makes a nice taste. So he's thinking that twigs are very nice, these thorns are very nice. Similarly, this material existence, it is simply thorny life. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. Every step. Here is our friend, Mr. Cakravartī. He was going to business, and immediately there was accident. The whole thing became turned into something else. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. We do not understand this, that every step there is danger. This material life is so dangerous. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. Na teṣām, who are they? Who do not face this padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām? Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ mahat-padam. One who has taken shelter. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58].

*So the bhakti, bhakti cult... Everyone should take. Because that is natural. Natural. Nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Bhakti's not unnatural. Other things unnatural. That is the statement of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Eternally you are servant of Kṛṣṇa. But we have accepted the service of māyā, instead of Kṛṣṇa. And we are thinking we are independent. We are being kicked out every moment by māyā, and still I am thinking I'm God, I'm independent. This is called illusion. He's being slapped always, he's being kicked by māyā; still he's thinking that he's independent, he's God, he's big, he's minister, he is something, something, something. This is called māyā. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is called moha. So bhakti means to become freed from this moha, illusion. That is bhakti.

*So dharma*-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. People are after these four things. Dharma. Dharma. Generally, they try to become religious for some material gain, artha. Material gain. And why artha is required? Because kāma, to fulfill our desires, for lusty desires. We require money. Dharma-artha-kāma. And when we are frustrated in enjoying this material world, then we try to become mokṣa, merge into the existence of Brahman. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā, when you are frustrated. So that kind of mokṣa... Of course, it is nice. But bhakti is beyond mokṣa. Mokṣa means brahma-bhūtaḥ, to understand that "I am Brahman." That is mokṣa. That is mukti. "I'm not this matter. I'm not this body." That is called mokṣa.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



After being liberated from this material contamination, that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am not this matter; *I am Brahman..." That is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage. In the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, one is joyful, prasannātmā. That is the symptoms of brahma-bhūtaḥ. Prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Because he has nothing to do with material world, therefore sometimes it is said, "It is mithyā," because I have nothing to do. It may be very important thing, but unless you realize Kṛṣṇa, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54], by devotional service, even by lifting yourself to that stage, transcendental stage of Brahman realization, there is chance of falling down. That is the verdict of, I mean to, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛtaḥ-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because they could not search out the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they have to come down again to this material existence, which they left as mithyā. But their..., because there is no shelter on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, this brahma-bhūtaḥ stage also not secure. One has to fall down. We have seen many big, big sannyāsīs, very learned scholars, sannyāsīs, they take part in politics, sociology. Because they could not catch up real Brahman, therefore they come again to his material existence. So Śrīdhara Swami, the great commentator on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he says, in connection with the second verse, First Chapter, First Canto: dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstava vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. So Śrīdhara Swami says, atra mokṣavisandi api nirastam. To desire for mokṣa is also not ultimate goal of life. Ultimate goal of life is to accept the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Actually who is jñānavān, he'll take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. If not is this life, he'll have to come to this status. Therefore nirviśeṣa vadi, impersonalists... Kṛṣṇa says, kleṣaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta cetasām. Avyakta. Kṛṣṇa is vyakta. But one who is not after this vyakta, he's after impersonal Brahman, their labor is still more hard than the bhaktas.



*So the bhakti*-mārga means directly giving you the ultimate goal of life-Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. People do not know that what is the aim of life. The aim of life is to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the aim of life. But they have no information. There is God. "Who is God? Who is Viṣṇu?" No information. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. So without understanding Viṣṇu, without understanding Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all other attempts, they are not successful. That is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Without understanding Kṛṣṇa, if one is thinking that "I have become liberated," that is vimukta-maninaḥ. He's thinking like that. Actually he's under the clutches of māyā. He's thinking like that. Why? Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Because his intelligence is not yet clear. Still it is contaminated by māyā. Therefore āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛtaḥ-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. The, they take too much hardship for rising to the Brahman platform, nirviśeṣa Brahman platform. Kṛccha sādhana. Their austerities, penances are very severe. Taking shelter underneath a... As Śaṅkarācārya exhibited himself. He was living underneath a tree, thrice, four times taking bath. Very cutting vairāgya. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. But if they do not approach Kṛṣṇa, then there is chance of falling down. There is chance of falling down again into this material world. Because we are living entities, we want variety. As I have explained several times, just like if you go in the sky... The sky is very brilliant, all shining, but still you'll not like it. You'll come down. You'll want to come down again, because you want variety. So if you go very high in the sky, if you actually enter into some planet where there is varieties of life, then you become satisfied. Otherwise, if you remain only in the sky, nirviśeṣa, nirākāra, then you'll hanker after: "Where is viśeṣa? Where is varieties? Where is variety?" This is natural. Therefore śāstra says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa param... You can go very high with your aero..., aeroplane, but if you don't get any shelter in the sky, then you'll have to come back. As they are doing. They're trying to go to the moon planet, not in the sky. The sky, you can remain in the sky. Why you are coming back? No, that is not very pleasing. That is not very pleasing.

*So bhakti*-mārga means that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. You can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is. "As He is" means He's not a human being like you or me. He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead, sac-cid-ānanda vigraha.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*That is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. If we understand Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11], then we don't understand Kṛṣṇa. We understand Kṛṣṇa's māyā, not Kṛṣṇa. Nāhaṁ sarvasya prakāṣaḥ yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ. Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood because He's covered by yogamāyā. He can be understood only by the devotees.



*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yam śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*So the bhakti*-mārga means we want real life, eternal life, and varieties also. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānanda cannot... Variety is the mother of enjoyment. Without variety, you cannot feel enjoyment. That is not possible. Suppose if I simply give you a lump of flour. Will you enjoy? But the same flour, you make kacoris, luci, puri, and this and... Oh, you'll enjoy. The ingredient is the same, but when it variety, it is enjoyable. Similarly, spiritual varieties... The impersonalists, they being fed up with this material varieties, they want to make it zero. But that will not help us. In zero we cannot be happy, because we are by nature, we want to enjoy. Enjoy means there must be varieties. The same flour, but you pick up some different varieties of flour and keep it, oh, you'll enjoy. "Oh, it is very nice." Therefore Kṛṣṇa has given so many varieties.



*So the varieties of life... Ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis [Bs. 5.37]. Ānanda-cinmaya. These varieties, this is material variety. We cannot enjoy here, but there is spiritual variety. That is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ. Just like Kṛṣṇa Himself is expanding Himself as gopīs, as cowherds boys, as calves and cows and trees in Vṛndāvana. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis. They are all ananda-cinmaya-rasa, expansion of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. Rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād [Cc. Ādi 1.5]. So we want liberation, but not liberation in the impersonal existence. That is... That is not very safe. We must enter into the spiritual varieties of life. That is Kṛṣṇaloka, that is Vaikuṇṭhaloka, especially Kṛṣṇaloka. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. He's Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His body is not like us. He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. But He has got form. So Brahman realization means partial understanding of the sat portion of sac-cid-ānanda. Paramātmā realization means realization of para, of the cit potency. But ānanda realization means to become associated with Kṛṣṇa. That is ānanda, varieties, rasa-līlā. Kṛṣṇa is playing with the cowherds boys, Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs, Kṛṣṇa is enjoying the association of His mother, His father, His friend. Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena. The Kṛṣṇa is the origin of Brahman effulgence. Those who are trying for Brahman-sukha, here is the point. Śukadeva Gosvāmī: itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. The origin. Brahmano 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā. "Impersonal Brahman is situated on Me." Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40].

So we get information. We have to realize these things, what is Kṛṣṇa. That...

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām apisiddhānāṁ

kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*To understand Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu. Out of many, many millions who are trying to become successful in the mission of life... Manuṣyāṇāṁ saha, kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhaye. Siddhaye means, to become siddha means to become brahma*-bhūtaḥ, to understand that "I am not this material body. I am brahmāsmi." That is siddhi. And yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many such siddhas who have realized Paramātmā or Brahman, out of many such millions of people, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so difficult subject matter. But He's so kind also that He is giving us instruction personally in the form of Bhagavad-gītā what He is. What He is? He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, don't labor hard, simply that there is something beyond Me." Sometimes they say that "There is still more, beyond Kṛṣṇa." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, there is nothing beyond." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya, mayi sūtre gaṇā iva [Bg. 7.7]. "Everything is resting on Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. The Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Janma sthiti laya, where it is staying, where it is being conducted, that is Brahman. So Kṛṣṇa answers this question that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. He's the Supreme Brahman. Therefore Arjuna accepted Him: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12]. We are Brahmans, but we are not Param Brahman. Param Brahman is Kṛṣṇa. We are ātmā, but we are not Paramātmā. Paramātmā is Kṛṣṇa. So in this way...



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti mām...

[Bg. 7.3]



*So in this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. We have to understand Kṛṣṇa through the paramparā, disciplic succession, not by our ABCD knowledge. That is not possible. One has to accept the disciplic succession, line. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That guru... Guru means Kṛṣṇa's representative, Kṛṣṇa's... Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Sākṣād dharitvena. Because guru is representative of Kṛṣṇa, therefore he should be respected as good as Kṛṣṇa. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. But because a guru is respected as Kṛṣṇa, the guru does not think that he has become Kṛṣṇa. No. That is foolishness. He's the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore... Just like most confidential secretary, he acts as the master. His signature, his settlement will be accepted by the master. Similarly yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya prasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. We have to select the right representative of Kṛṣṇa, and accept him as guru. And if I please him, then Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. There is no need of... Somebody, they say that "Kṛṣṇa is not present. How shall I please Him?" No. Kṛṣṇa's representative is present. You please him. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo, yasya **. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. This is the process. Yathā deve tathā gurau. Tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante. This is the process. Ādau gurvāśrayam. That is Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī giving his, in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, ādau gurvāśrayam. If you are actually interested to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, the first business is ādau gurvāśrayam: you take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master who is representative of Kṛṣṇa.



*And how we can understand the representative of Kṛṣṇa? That is not very difficult. Because what Kṛṣṇa says, if the representative says the same thing, then he's representative. It is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If His representative says that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa," he's representative. That's all. He does not become, himself, Kṛṣṇa. Then he's bogus. A faithful servant will never say that "I am the master." "I am servant"-although he's as good as the master. Similarly, a guru is sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva, kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya **. He, he is the most confidential, dear servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is guru. That's all. He does not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu presenting Himself: gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayoḥ dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. A guru is always the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. He does not represent himself direct servant. How he can be direct servant? But if you are in the disciplic succession of the servitude, servant of the servant of the servant, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2], then you become representative. And there is no difference between the original guru, Kṛṣṇa, and the latest guru, Kṛṣṇa. Because the aim is the same. Kṛṣṇa personally says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And who is representative of Kṛṣṇa, he'll say the same thing: "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. The guru will say, "Yes, you become always Kṛṣṇa conscious." Man-manā. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā. A guru says, "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." The same thing. There is no difference. You become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You always think of Kṛṣṇa. You always chant of Kṛṣṇa. You always speak of Kṛṣṇa. You do not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. Simply this life is required.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa..., Kṛṣṇa conscious. Means Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. The four things. You just become always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. You just become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You just offer your obeisances unto Kṛṣṇa. And you just worship Kṛṣṇa. And accept Kṛṣṇa, giving up any other engagement. Because real dharma is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]? Why He says, "Give up all other so-called dharmas"? They are not dharmas. And the Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: [SB 1.1.2] "The cheating type of dharma is kicked out from this Bhāgavatam." Cheating type. Real dharma, what is that real dharma? Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. What Bhagavān says. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. This is real dharma. So we request everyone... It is very scientific. It is authorized. We are not talking nonsense. Authorized. We are taking the version of Kṛṣṇa. We are taking the version of the Vedic conclusion. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vedas, study of Veda means to understand Kṛṣṇa. One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he's simply wasting his time.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



You can execute your dharma, your occupational duty, very nicely. That's all right. But if you do not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are simply wasting your time and working hard for nothing. This is the verdict.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very genuine and it is very easy. Especially in this age. That is also authorized statement of Śukadeva Gosvāmī: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. He has described... Because in this age, in this age is called Kali-yuga, there are so many impediments. People are fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. They are disturbed. So many botheration. It is very difficult to realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but there is very short-cut way recommended: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you become uncontaminated of this material contamination and thus, being freed from material contamination, you become eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



721024ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 24, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading) "The basic principle of the living condition is that we have a general propensity to love someone. No one can live without loving someone else. This propensity is present in every living being. Even an animal like a tiger has this loving propensity, at least in a dormant stage, and it is certainly present in the human beings. The missing point, however, is where to repose our love so that everyone can become happy. At the present moment, the human society teaches one to love his country or family or his personal self, but there is no information where to repose the loving propensity so that everyone can become happy. That missing point is Kṛṣṇa, and the *Nectar of Devotion* teaches us how to stimulate our original love for Kṛṣṇa and how to be situated in that position where we can enjoy our blissful life. In the primary stage, a child loves his parents, then his brothers and sisters, and as he daily grows up, he begins to love his family, society, community, country, nation, or even the whole human society. But the loving propensity is not satisfied, even by loving all human society. That loving propensity remains imperfectly fulfilled until we know who is the Supreme Beloved. Our love can be fully satisfied only when it is reposed in Kṛṣṇa. This..."



*Prabhupāda: There is a nice example in this connection. In the pond, reservoir of water, if you drop one stone, it becomes a circle. The circle increases, increasing, increasing... Unless it comes to the shore, the circle increases. Similarly, our loving propensity increases. In the primary stage, a child whatever he gets, he puts into his mouth. Anna*-brahman. Then gradually, as the child grows, sometimes he distributes to his other brother or parents, the love increases. In this way, self-centered, then family-centered, then community-centered, society-centered, nation-centered, international centered... So this increase of our loving propensity will not be satisfied unless it reaches the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We love. The loving propensity is there. Even we have no family... Sometimes we keep pets, cats and dogs, to love. So we are, by nature we used to love somebody else. So that somebody else is Kṛṣṇa. Actually, we want to love Kṛṣṇa, but without information of Kṛṣṇa, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, our loving propensity is limited. Within certain circle. Therefore we are not satisfied. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. That love affair, loving propensity, is eternally existing, to love Kṛṣṇa. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, when he met the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he became fully satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42].



*In the material world field, we love somebody for getting something in return. That is not love, pure love. Pure love is different. Pure love, as it is described by Lord Caitanya, in the, in His mood of Rādhārāṇī unto Kṛṣṇa āśliṣya vā pāda*-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā. This is love, Rādhārāṇī's, that "You either embrace Me or trample Me down under your feet, neglect Me, or make Me broken-hearted, not being present at any time throughout My life, life after life, it does not matter. Still I love you unconditionally." Mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ. That is real love. And that love is existing in everyone's heart. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. That is not awakened. So by this devotional process, ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ, that love... Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15].

*There are stages, or steps, one after another, if we practice. Sādhu*-saṅge, sato vṛtteḥ ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says that potent love for Kṛṣṇa can be reinstated again, invoked again, by the prescribed method. Sādhu-saṅge sato vṛtteḥ ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. Utsāhān dhairyāt niścayāt. When you get little taste of love of Kṛṣṇa... Just like we are sitting here. We have got little taste for loving Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, why we should waste our time in this way? This is called śraddhā. So this śraddhā is also invoked by association with sādhu, devotees. Then, if we little become enthusiastic... Just like you have become. Utsāhān. You have left your country, everything, and you are going everywhere, coming with me. Not for any material profit, but for increasing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is called utsāhān, enthusiasm. Our whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is depending on this enthusiasm. Just like I went to your country. At the age of seventy years, nobody goes out of home. But there was enthusiasm, "Yes, I must go." And because I went, there is something. You have got the information. Similarly, enthusiasm is the basic principle, ādau.

*Utsāhān dhairyāt. By patience. Not that "I am working so hard for Kṛṣṇa, but I'm not getting any impetus." No. Don't be impatient. Kṛṣṇa will give you chance. He's giving chance always, twenty*-four hours, imperceptibly. But we cannot appreciate very much. Kṛṣṇa sees. As far as we are able, according to our strength, He gives responsibility. But we must be... Rest assured, when we have taken shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa fully, without any reservation, Kṛṣṇa must be pleased; *maybe it will take some time. This is called niścayād, certainty, assurance. Utsāhān dhairyāt niścayād tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to execute the routine prescribed duties. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You cannot go against the principles of devotional service. With patience, you must execute. Tat-tat-pravartanāt. Sato vṛtteḥ. Sato vṛtteḥ means dealings must be very honest. No duplicity. Very frank, plain. Sato vṛtteḥ, sādhu-saṅge, and in association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktir praṇasya..., uh, prasidhyati. In this way, our propensity for, of love for Kṛṣṇa will increase.

Similarly, there are other six methods. Prajalpa niyamāgraha.

atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca

prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ

*jana*-saṅgaś ca, laulyaṁ jana-saṅgas ca

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ praṇaśyati

[No I 2]



Atyāhāra, eating or collecting more than necessity. That is atyāhāra. Āhāra means eating and collecting. Āhāraḥ. So we should not collect more than what we need. Kṛṣṇa will give, giving us. Just like we are spending so much money in all our centers. So Kṛṣṇa is sending us the necessary expenditure. How... Otherwise, how we are maintaining? So... But we should not be hankering after collecting more than what is necessity. That is atyāhāra. Similarly, we should not eat more than what we need for maintaining the body and soul together. Atyāhāra prayāsaḥ, prayāsaḥ. We should not endeavor for anything which requires too much anxiety. That is called prayāsaḥ. Atyāhāra prayāsaḥ. Automatically, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, whatever comes, that's all right. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpaḥ [No I 2]. Talking unnecessarily, nonsense. Just like people waste their time talking three hours on some political situation. You see. They have got enough time to discuss newspaper, but when they are invited to our class, they find no time.



*So we should not waste our time, a single moment. Time is very valuable. In your country, they say, "Time is money." So either you take money, that is artha, or paramartha. Money is required in the material world, and in spiritual world, paramartha, spiritual asset. Some way or other, even those who are materialists, they do not waste their time. So we are after spiritual realization. How we can waste our time? Time is very valuable. So we should not waste time. Prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ, jana*-saṅgaś ca. And associating with ordinary persons who are not devotees. Jana-saṅgas. People in general, they have no taste for Kṛṣṇa. And greediness, laulyam. These things are impediments for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ. Niya..., niyamāgrahaḥ. Niyamāgrahaḥ means simply busy to follow the rules, but actually do not understand what is the meaning of such following. Not blindly. One should follow the regulative principles with firm conviction and understanding. Niyamā agrahaḥ and niyama-āgrahaḥ. Āgrahaḥ means eagerness to accept. And āgrahaḥ, not accepting. In both ways, niyama grahaḥ. Not to accept the regulative principles, that is also faulty. And too much āgraha, false āgraha, without knowing the meaning of it, that is also faulty. So niyamāgrahaḥ.

atyāhāra prayāsaś ca

prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ

*laulyaṁ jana*-saṅgaś ca

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ praṇaśyati



*So we should be very careful. If we are... Because our only business is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, to increase our loving propensity for Kṛṣṇa, Adhokṣaja, who is beyond the reach of our senses. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Adhokṣaja, "beyond the reaches of senses." Anubhāva. We can perceive Kṛṣṇa's there, but not that by our senses. We can touch, we can see, we can smell. That we shall do as we increase, as we purify our senses. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. Not immediately. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī. He was talking with his Deity. So as we make advancement in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa will talk with us directly. The Deity will talk with you. There are many instances. In Vṛndāvana, there was Gopāla, Sākṣi*-Gopāla. He has now gone to Orissa. He talked with His devotees, and went with His devotee. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance to touch Him, to see Him, to smell Him, to taste Him. By so many ways. This is called arcana-mārga. And gradually, when we advance, it will be directly. Just like we are directly talking. That will be possible. So patiently, by following the regulative principles... Sādhu-mārgānugamanam.



*Ādau gurvāśrayam. In the beginning, one has to accept the bona fide spiritual master. Sad*-dharma-pṛcchāt. Then inquiry from spiritual master. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. In this way... Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Paripraśna. In this way, we shall have to make advancement and gradually our dormant love of Kṛṣṇa will be fully manifest. This is the way. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the... And The *Nectar of Devotion* teaches us how to stimulate our original love for Kṛṣṇa and how to be situated in that position where we can enjoy our blissful life. In the primary stage, a child loves his parents, then his brothers and sisters..." Oh, I'm sorry. "This, this theme is the sum and substance of The *Nectar of Devotion* which teaches us how to love Kṛṣṇa in five different transcendental mellows. Our..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The subject matter of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, basic principle, how to love Kṛṣṇa in five primary rasas: śānta-rasa, sākhya-rasa, dāsya-rasa, śānta-dāsya-sākhya-vātsalya-mādhurya. Go on.



Pradyumna: "Our loving propensity expands just as a vibration of light or air expands, but we do not know where it ends. The *Nectar of Devotion* teaches us the science of loving every one of the living entities perfectly by the easy method of loving Kṛṣṇa. We have failed to create peace and harmony in human society, even by such great attempts as the United Nations, because we do not know the right method. The method is very simple, but one has to understand it with a cool head. The *Nectar of Devotion* teaches all men how to perform the simple and natural method of loving *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*. If we learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, then it is very easy to immediately and simultaneously love every living being."



Prabhupāda: Yes. This... Everyone in the human society is trying to establish love in the society, but it is being failed. The reason is that we are missing the central point. Just like from a point you can make a circle. What is called that?



Pradyumna: Compass.



*Prabhupāda: Compass. Yes. That compass, you put the pointed part on the center, you can make a circle. So if I do not take the central point, I make my own point, then my circle will overlap your circle, there will be a clash. But if the center is the same, I can draw one circle, you can draw one, another circle. None of these circles will overlap. So if taking Kṛṣṇa as the center... Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe. If we relate our activities, social activities, philanthropic activities, political activities, any a..., religious activities, any activity. If you make center Kṛṣṇa, then my circle, your circle, another circle will not overlap. But it will give different lights. Kṛṣṇa being center. That point we were discussing in this morning from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Everyone is trying to make his own circle. Political, social, humanitarian, philosophical, scientific. That's all right. But Bhāgavata says that make your circle perfect from the point of Kṛṣṇa. Don't miss the point. Svanu, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Whatever you do, if you try to please Kṛṣṇa, then your circle is perfect. Kṛṣṇa must be center. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. You can deal in politics. Then politics will be perfect. Kṛṣṇa-sambandhe, you can make circle of scientific knowledge. Then it will be perfect. Making center Kṛṣṇa, either politics, sociology, philosophy, religion, whatever it may be. It will be perfect.



*Yukta*-vairāgyam ucyate. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjate. Just like we are using this microphone. This is material, scientific advancement. Sometimes they criticize that "You are not materialistic. Why you are using the modern appliances? Why you are flying on the aeroplane?" So practically, our vision is that everything is Kṛṣṇa's and everything must be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is, that is our philosophy. Actually, it is so. This microphone is manufactured by Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, prakṛti bhinnā me aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. So this metal portion, or the rubber portion, or any portion of this microphone is made of the five elements, earth, water, fire, air. So Kṛṣṇa says, "They are My separated energy." So although separated energy, we are dovetailing with the service of Kṛṣṇa. That, we do not see that this matter is separate from Kṛṣṇa. Actually it is not so. When we see the matter is separate from Kṛṣṇa, that is materialism. When we see the matter is energy of Kṛṣṇa, that is not materialism. That is spiritualism. So it is our intellect how we can utilize everything with Kṛṣṇa.

*Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Anāsaktasya viṣayān. If we utilize the same matter for our sense gratification, viṣaya, then it is material. The same flower, if I collect it for my sense gratification, this flower is material. The same flower, when I pick up for offering on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, this is spiritual. Then how the material thing transformed into spiritual? By the consciousness. Therefore our propaganda is to raise the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. That is our propaganda. As soon as we raise the consciousness to the platform of Kṛṣṇa, then we become spiritualized. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Who is talking? Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate.

Just like Rāmānanda Rāya. He was governor. He was Governor of Madras, but he was the, one of the most confidential devotees of Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya and Rāmānanda Rāya were talking together, and Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya was feeling little shyness because he did not belong to the brāhmaṇa community. He was governor, householder. So he thought that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asking him question and he was answering, that means he was taking the superior position. So he felt little shyness. And when he was feeling such shyness, Caitanya Mahāprabhu encouraged him,

kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*Encouraged him. Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught the whole world, how one can become exalted simply by learning the science of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā. Tattva means science. It doesn't matter whether he's a sannyāsī or a gṛhastha or a śūdra or a brāhmaṇa. It doesn't matter. These are all designations of the body. Spiritually, we are all one. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. So if we are on the spiritual platform... On the spiritual platform means to understand the Science of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Spirit. Then if we are conversant with the science of Kṛṣṇa, then anyone who is such enlightened, he is perfect spiritual master. It doesn't matter what he is. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He was born in Muhammadan family. Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, they were rejected from the brāhmaṇa community and they took the Muslim names, Sākara Mallika, Dabira Khāsa. But it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching that He collected all these exalted personalities. They were associates of Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*But the universality of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is such that anyone can become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and anyone can accept or be elevated to the exalted post of gosvāmī, namācārya. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura was made the Namācārya. And Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, although rejected by the brāhmaṇa community, they were the exalted Gosvāmīs, six Gosvāmīs. Śrī*-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha. Ei chaya gosi yāra tāra mui dāsa. So our whole Vaiṣṇava, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava community are servants of all these Gosvāmīs. So it doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa also confirms, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. It doesn't matter one is born in lower family. It doesn't matter. That...

*Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. Even the dog*-eaters. In the beginning, we did not know who is the dog-eaters. In the beginning, we did not know who is the dog-eaters. Now, when we are travelling all over the water, we see so many dog-eaters. In Korea, China, Philippines, there are many dog-eaters. So in the śāstras it is mentioned: even the dog-eaters, śvādo. Śva means dog. And adaḥ, one who eats. Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. If one is elevated to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even he's born in the family of dog-eaters or he is a dog-eater... Of course, he cannot remain dog-eater. After coming to become a Vaiṣṇava, he does not remain a dog-eater. But dog-eating is not disqualification. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's specific contribution. Nothing is disqualification to come to Krishna consciousness, provided one is serious to come to this platform. Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ.

*Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has commented on this line, śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ, that a dog*-eater, after becoming a devotee, immediately he becomes a qualified brāhmaṇa, so much so that he becomes competent to become a priest in the matter of offering sacrifices. But Jīva Gosvāmī says that even a person is born in brāhmaṇa family, he awaits the qualification of performing sacrifices. He has to be initiated. He has to be advanced in education, so many things. But one dog-eater, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately, without waiting for reformatory method, he becomes immediately competent to act as priest in performing sacrifices. But we should not take advantage of this. Actually, we should become on the platform of brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, qualification Vaiṣṇava so that others may not criticize. That is our special request. That chance is there, everyone. This path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is open to everyone. It does not matter. My position is very precarious.

This morning, one man came to challenge me that how I am converting these mlecchas and yavanas to Vaiṣṇava. Yes. But how I an...? It is, it is there in the śāstra.

*kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā

ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādhayaḥ

*ye 'nye ca pāpā yad*-upāśrayāśrayāḥ

śudhyanti...

[SB 2.4.18]



*They becomes purified according to śāstra. Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī gives direction, tathā dīkṣā*-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. By dīkṣā-vidhāna, by proper initiation, any person can attain the stage of dvijatvam. So our method is not against the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. If we give up the direction of the śāstra, then we are faulty. If we do not deviate the injunctions of the śāstra... Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya tinete kariyā aikya. In the śāstra it is sanctioned. My Guru Mahārāja, he also ordered. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also ordered.



*When Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, so that means He wanted that all over the world, in every town, in every village, His mission should be propagated. And what is His mission? His mission is: yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. That is His mission, So it is not that in western countries one cannot become Vaiṣṇava, one cannot become guru. This is not. This, such sort of remark is not tolerable from śāstric point of view. It is completely, strictly to the śāstric point of view. And it is a glory for us that people in other countries, outside India, they're accepting this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But crippled people, they unnecessarily criticize this method. But we don't care for them.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730104ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 4, 1973



Pradyumna: (reading) "The basic principle of the living condition is that we have a general propensity to love someone. No one can live without loving someone else. This propensity is present in every living being. Even an animal like a tiger has this loving propensity, at least in a dormant stage, and it is certainly present in the human beings. The missing point, however, is where to repose our love so that everyone can become happy. At the present moment, the human society teaches one to love his country or family or his personal self, but there is no information where to repose the loving propensity so that everyone can become happy."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This point is missing. We cannot... It is not possible that we can approach everyone and offer our loving service. Just like people are very much attracted by the humanitarian services. They take it very great, loving service to the human society. But however you may love... Suppose in the beginning one loves his own self, his own body... Just like a child. He loves for himself. Anything he gets, he wants to eat. Own sense gratification. Then, as he grows, he shares his foodstuff with his little brother and sister. Then, as he grows, he loves his mother, his father, then other friends. In this way, as we go, we can love our society, our community, or nation, or internationally, all human beings. But still it is imperfect. Still it is imperfect. It is not all-inclusive. Just like at the present moment, every country, they are national, they consider the human being as national, not the animals. But actual meaning of "national" means anyone who takes birth in that country. In Sanskrit word it is called prajā. King, and..., the, the rāja, and prajā. Prajā means who takes birth, prajāyate. Anyone who takes birth in that country, in that kingdom, he's called prajā. So it is the duty of the king to give protection all prajās. Not that only human beings or my brother or my sister, and not the animals*-not the cows, not the goats, not the chickens. No. They're also prajā. But because there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they think that prajā means only the human beings. That's all. Imperfect knowledge.



*But when one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he loves everyone. Because his connection with Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ: [Bg. 14.4] "All forms of living entities, all species of life, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." That is real humanity. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

*brahma*-bhutaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*If one does not see equally to all living entities, paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ... [Bg. 5.18]. That is paṇḍita. It is not paṇḍita that "Only my brother is good, my father is good, and all are bad." That is not paṇḍita. That is sectarianism. That is sectarianism. Paṇḍita...



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*So that means at the present moment all the leaders, they're fools and rascals. They are simply sectarian. "I am good. My brother is good. My father is good. All others bad." That's all. Nationalism, communism, these are going on. But a Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he does not see like that. He does not like to kill even an ant. That Mṛgāri, he was a hunter. He was killing animals half-dead. And he met Nārada Muni, so he became a Vaiṣṇava. And when he became a Vaiṣṇava, he was not prepared to kill even an ant*-the same hunter, who was killing other animals half-dead, and he was taking pleasure. So this partiality is not in Vaiṣṇava. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. Vaiṣṇava, he's a friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇam.



titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ

*suhṛdaḥ sarva*-bhūtānām

ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ

*sādhavaḥ sādhu*-bhūṣaṇam

[SB 3.25.21]



Sādhu, devotee, he is friend for everyone. Suhṛdam... As Kṛṣṇa is friend of everyone,... Kṛṣṇa says,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām...

[Bg. 5.29]



*Similarly, His representative is also friend for everyone. As Kṛṣṇa comes, descends to reclaim all fallen souls back to home, back to Godhead, similarly His representative, devotee, he also approaches everyone, tries to get him back to home, back to Godhead. Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām. Even to the animals... Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered a dog. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's party was going to Jagannātha Purī. A dog was follow, following. So that dog was delivered because he followed the devotees. There are many instances like that. What is this? Read it.



Pradyumna: "At the present moment, the human society teaches one how to love his country or family or his personal self..."



Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got a propensity to love, but we do not know, do not know how our love can be perfect. That we do not know. That perfection is possible when you love Kṛṣṇa. Acyutejyā. Sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā.



*yathā tarormūla*-niṣecanena

*tṛpyanti tat*-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ

prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ

tatha(iva) sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā



*They're, this secret, they do not know. But factually that is the fact. Just like we are in this old age, we are wandering all over the world to see that "Let everyone become happy by Kṛṣṇa consciousness." It is not that we love only our countrymen, only Hindus, or Bengalis, or Madrasis, or... No. We love everyone, even the animals. But because human beings can understand the Kṛṣṇa philosophy, therefore we hold meetings of the human beings. But still, whenever we get opportunity, we give protection to the animals. We give them prasādam. We do not prohibit even some animal comes to hear. They also hear some, sometimes. The hear, hearing is there. Everyone can hear. Even they do not understand what is Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you chant loudly Hare Kṛṣṇa, even the ants and insect who is hearing, he'll be delivered, because it is spiritual vibration. It will act for everyone. We... Just like fire. The fire will act, either you are human being or insect. If you touch fire, it will do its work. Similarly, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is transcendental vibration. When we chant loudly, anyone who hears*-it doesn't matter whether he's man, animal, tree, insect-anyone who will hear, he'll get profit. This is transcendental vibration. Just like when there is... Not to speak of this transcendental vibration, even the vibration of cloud, that is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā: śabdaḥ khe pauruṣaṁ nṛṇām. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. So animal has no realization that "Here is Kṛṣṇa," but a human being, after attending sat-saṅga, devotee's, association of the devotees, he can understand: "Oh, here I am drinking water. Now in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. So this taste of water is Kṛṣṇa." He remembers immediately Kṛṣṇa. That means he immediately associates with Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. Either you remember... Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam [SB 7.5.23]. Any way, when you hear about Kṛṣṇa, you are associating Kṛṣṇa. You are chanting about Kṛṣṇa. You are associating with Kṛṣṇa. You are remembering, smaraṇam, that is also Kṛṣṇa.



*So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. He's teaching how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It's not difficult at all. He says... Everyone drinks water. Who can say that "I do not drink water"? Then, then why you have not seen Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. So as soon as you taste, you understand what is Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty? If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in this easy way, gradually Kṛṣṇa consciousness will develop.

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart, because everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like part and parcel of gold is gold. There may be some dusty cover, but it has to be cleansed. That's all. Then it becomes gold. Similarly, everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. But on account of his association with matter, he, he's thinking that he's different from Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise every one of us... Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Everyone is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa means part and parcel of gold. As you understand part... A little drop of sea water, it is also, contains the same ingredients. Similarly, we have also got the same ingredients, as Kṛṣṇa has got. The difference is He's big. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. We are small, particle.



*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is our natural... There is. But, at the present moment, on account of our association with māyā, the material energy, we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa bhūliya jīva bhoga-vāñchā kare. That forgetfulness is manifested by our desire to enjoy this material world. Bhoga-vāñchā. Everyone is trying to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. That is called material world. Only the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are not trying to enjoy this material world, but they are trying to dovetail everything in the service of the Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. Just like we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Everyone is eating. We are also eating. But we don't eat directly. Whatever we prepare, whatever we collect, first of all we offer to Kṛṣṇa. Because we think, we think-and it is a fact*-the thing is of Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa has given. You cannot manufacture rice, dhal or wheat in your factory, neither fruit, nor milk. It is given by Kṛṣṇa. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's giving. One has to acknowledge, "Yes, it is given by Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's. So let me offer it first of all to Kṛṣṇa, then take the prasādam." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Where is the difficulty? Everyone can do it. But they'll not do it. They'll satisfy the tongue. That is forbidden. Ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt, bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpām [Bg. 3.13]. So if you are eating, eating simply sin, how we can be happy? We have to suffer. Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpām ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. So who is cooking for Kṛṣṇa? Nobody's cooking. Except a Kṛṣṇa's devotee, nobody's cooking. He's pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. He's thinking, "Now this sandeṣa, rasagullā, purī and meat and chicken, I shall eat very voraciously." So you are, he's eating sinful, sins, all sins. Aghaṁ pāpā. And he has to suffer. He has to suffer. Therefore people are suffering. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone must suffer. That is the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot avoid it. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Only you can be happy when you are a surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti.

*So we have got this loving propensity, but we do not know how to love and where our loving propensity should be reposed. That we do not know. That is Kṛṣṇa. People... The same example. Just like if you water in the root of tree, then the water is distributed all over the branches, leaves and flowers and everywhere. If you put foodstuff in the stomach, the energy's distributed all over the body. Everyone can understand this. There are... Kṛṣṇa is the root. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. He's the root. But we are neglecting the root. We are trying to pour water in the leaves. The leaf will dry, and his labor will be frustrated. That is happening. So-called humanitarian service, social service, without any touch with Kṛṣṇa... Just like watering on the tree without touching the root*-it is useless labor. Similarly, you do whatever service you can do to the society, to the community, to the nation, but do it in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you're perfect. Otherwise it will remain imperfect. The persons who are, whom you are giving service, they'll never be happy, neither you'll be happy. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that they're simply wasting their time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply wasting their time in so-called humanitarian service. They must take... Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Everything should be in relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

anāsaktasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

*nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe

yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate



*The simple process. First of all, try, try to understand Kṛṣṇa and try to love Him. Your love will be distributed, not only in your family and community, but throughout the whole world. All animals, all insects, all trees. You'll never be inclined to do harm, even to an ant even. A tree is cut down*-a Kṛṣṇa-bhakta becomes sorry. Others, they do not become sorry. They are so sympathetic. Nowadays, trees are being cut into pieces without any consideration. This is also sinful activities. They're also living entities. You cannot kill them unnecessarily. This is the law of nature. Go on.



Pradyumna: "But there is no information where to repose the loving propensity so that everyone can become happy."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If the whole society takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone will be happy. If the government men, the politicians, they become Kṛṣṇa conscious... But it is very difficult. As soon as they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they'll not be able to do all these heinous activities. So it is very difficult, but the fact is this, that... Just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, when he was king, people were so happy that even there was no extreme cold and extreme heat. Neither they were any disturbed with anxieties. These are stated in the Bhāgavata. If the king, if the government men, they become devotee, then automatically the prajās will be happy. Why they are hankering after Rāma*-rājya? Because the head of the kingdom is the purest. So in a, in our Bengali language, it is said that if the king is sinful, the whole kingdom becomes lost. And if in the family, if the housewife is sinful, then the whole family becomes lost. It is a common saying. So the difficulty is that nobody... We are grudging against government. So many complaints we have got. But there is no question of grudging against government; because we are not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are electing our representatives, fools and rascals. How we can expect good government? You become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you elect your representative, Kṛṣṇa conscious, and the government will be all right. You'll be happy. Go on.



Pradyumna: "That missing point is Kṛṣṇa, and The *Nectar of Devotion* teaches us how to stimulate our original love for Kṛṣṇa and how to be situated in that position where we can enjoy our blissful life."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, there cannot be blissful life. If, if... You may rest assured. You may try in so many ways. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. Leaders may try. It will not be possible. Take, for example, in India. We thought, "If the Britishers go away, so, then we'll be happy. There will be no Hindu*-Muslim riots. There will be..." So many things we conjectured. "It will be Rāma-rājya." But what is the Rāma-rājya? Now everything there is fight. Now there is no Hindu-Muslim riot. Now Andhra and other provinces, they're fighting. So fighting will remain, unless we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Go on.



Pradyumna: "In the primary stage a child loves his parents, then his brothers and sisters. And as he daily grows up, he begins to love his family, society, community, country, nation or even the whole human society. But the loving propensity is not satisfied even by loving all human society. That loving propensity remains imperfectly fulfilled..."



*Prabhupāda: When Vyāsadeva finished his all scripture writing, all the Vedas, Purāṇas, even Brahma*-sūtra, he was not happy. He was not happy, and his spiritual master, Nārada, came, inquired: "Why you are not happy? You have done so much work." So he could not explain. He said, "I, I do not find why I am unhappy. But because you are my spiritual master, you can say." So he indicated that "Because you did not describe about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore you are not happy. Now you try to describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead, particularly." And therefore he wrote this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You'll find this in the Third Chapter of the First Canto. Hmm.



Pradyumna: "But that loving propensity is not satisfied even by loving all of human society." Oh. "That loving propensity remains imperfectly fulfilled until we know who is the supreme beloved."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Supreme beloved, Kṛṣṇa. Supreme Person, supreme beautiful, supreme rich, supreme famous, supreme wise. Everything supreme. We love somebody, or, out of these six opulences, if one opulence is there... Suppose one man is very rich and charitable, we love him. And... Just think over how Kṛṣṇa is rich and how He's charitable. He is giving His charity, He's distributing foodstuff, millions and millions of living entities every day. We are taking prou..., pride if we can feed, say, hundred, two hundred, five hundred, two thousand. But just imagine. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. There are millions and millions of elephants all over the universe; Kṛṣṇa is supplying their food. There are so many animals. How they're getting food? So many birds. How they can...? Actually there is no scarcity of food. The scarcity of food is for the human society, or the animals who live with them. Because actually the human society is misusing the advanced consciousness; *therefore they are put into the trouble. At the present moment, there is scarcity of water all over India, and so many things are being restricted. But in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, yajñād bhavati parjanya. So they are not performing yajñas. So this is nature's restriction. We have got this information. They are not performing yajñas. They, they think by science, by electricity, by this and that, shall provide everything. But then the electricity is being also reduced, supply of electricity is being controlled. And one after, one after another, one after another... Because the supreme controller, if He does not sanction, your so-called scientific improvement or so-called social service will not make the whole world satisfied. That is not possible. That is not possible. This secret is known to the devotees. Yes?



Pradyumna: "Our love can be fulfilling, can be fully satisfied only when it is reposed in Kṛṣṇa."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "This theme is the sum and substance of The *Nectar of Devotion*, which teaches us how to love Kṛṣṇa in five different transcendental mellows."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Our whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to teach people how to love Kṛṣṇa.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



Yayātmā suprasīdati. So this is the propaganda of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That will solve all problems, and people will be happy, things will change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you ver... [break]

*Woman devotee: ...Kṛṣṇa is like the sun at six*-thirty...?



Prabhupāda: Huh?



*Devotee: The sun at six*-thirty in the morning?



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.



Devotee: So Kṛṣṇa appears and performs His pastimes and then He disappears and then appears in another universe? Or He appears...?



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not appear or disappear. Kṛṣṇa is always present, but we see at a certain period. Just like the sun. Sun is always in the sky, but when it is daytime, we see, and at nighttime, we cannot see. At nighttime, because we cannot see, it does not mean there is no sun. It is our imperfectness of eyes, we cannot see. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always present. One who has got eyes, he can see. When all the circumstances favorable, he can see. Kṛṣṇa is always... Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti 'yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. So Kṛṣṇa can be seen always, if we have got eyes to see. That eyes, how you can be transferred? Premāñjana-cchurita. When it is smeared with the ointment of love, then with these eyes you can see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He's represent everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Kṛṣṇa is not absent. Kṛṣṇa is always there. We haven't got eyes to see Him. So we have to prepare the eyes. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When you make your eyes nirmala, when you give up all these titular designations-"I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am black," "I am white..." These are all designations. When you give up, become brahma bhutaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]-"I am nothing of this; *I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa"*-when you come to this consciousness, you will see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always there. [break] ...Kṛṣṇa. A devotee's seeing factual Kṛṣṇa, and nondevotee's seeing a brass doll. That's all. Kṛṣṇa is here. Why they say, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa?" Here is Kṛṣṇa. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he challenged Prahlāda Mahārāja, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa? All right, let me kill you. Let your God come and protect you." So the atheist class, they say like that. But one who has got training in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has got eyes to see Kṛṣṇa always. If here is not Kṛṣṇa, then all the ācāryas, they installed Deity in so many millions of temples, they're all fools and rascals? They ask us to worship some stone and wood? No. Kṛṣṇa is there, but we haven't got eyes to see. That is the difference. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as He saw Jagannātha at Purī, Jagannātha at..., immediately fainted: "Here is My Lord." Fainted.



*So we have to create that eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. That will be done gradually. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. We cannot see Kṛṣṇa. We cannot command Kṛṣṇa, "Please come here. I'll see You." No. He will reveal Himself, being satisfied with your service. "Here I am. You see Me now." So we have to wait for that revelation. Not by force. Force will not act. Kṛṣṇa is not our order*-supplier, servant: "Kṛṣṇa, please come here. I'll see You." No, no. That will not do. You must be submissive, first of all surrender. You follow the rules and regulations, be mad after Kṛṣṇa. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu: govinda-viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitaṁ jaga, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Śūnyayitaṁ jagat sarvam: "Everything is vacant because I cannot see Govinda." Just like if one's beloved son dies, he sees everything vacant. He no more sees that cars are running on the street or people are running. No. He sees everything vacant. Why? Due to love. Similarly, when we'll come to that position, we shall see everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa. Then that is the proper position to see Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Lord Caitanya says that "I am not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." "Now, Sir, You are crying always for Kṛṣṇa." "That is simply to show, make a show that I am a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa." Then? "No, how we can understand that You are not...? We know You're..." "No. Because I am still living without Kṛṣṇa, that means I have no love for Kṛṣṇa. I should have died long, long ago." Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So this much ecstasy, this much eagerness, when we come, then can see always. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilo..., santaḥ sadaiva. Twenty-four hours, he can see Kṛṣṇa. He cannot see anything but Kṛṣṇa. Just like the sunrise. As, as soon as the sun rises, you start your aeroplane, and you go on, towards the eastern, western side, you'll find always day. A practical... There will be no sunset. We have seen it while coming from Paris to London. Was it not? There was sunshine. We started from Paris at twelve o'clock and we reached London at three o'clock.

Śyāmasundara: Los Angeles.



Prabhupāda: Los Angeles. Yes. Los Angeles at three o'clock. It actually took eleven hours, but it appeared three hours. But there was no sunset. Actually so many hours have been passed. So this is a technique. So similarly, if you keep always yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa will not go away from your sight. He'll not go away from your sight. You must know the technique. Is that all right? Now you have any other question, ask. Yes?



Prabhavati: I understand that you cannot see Kṛṣṇa with your eyes. However, I'm just asking the details of Kṛṣṇa's appearance in the material world. I want to know if Kṛṣṇa appeared on this planet five thousand years ago at a certain time, that means that immediately did He appear again in another universe?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Prabhavati: Immediately...



*Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like six*-thirty, sunrise, as soon as it passes from India, the six-thirty in another country. And as soon as it passes that country, six, six-thirty in another country. So six-thirty always there. Similarly six-thirty, twelve-thirty, three o'clock, all the times, twenty-four hours, always present in some, somewhere or other. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's līlā, from His birth up to the disappearance, that is always existing. Disappearance means disappearance from my eyes. Kṛṣṇa does not disappear. Just like formerly people used to think, after the sunset, the sun is dead. Huh? Who were the persons that used... Sometimes, you...? They thought like that: "Sun is dead now"? Some philosophers or the Christians, they used to think like that. Similarly sun... [break] ...no birth and death because you are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. But we disappear. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntaram-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. One who is sober, he knows that "This man, he's not dead." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. "He's not dead. He has simply passed from this body to another body." Just like a mother, when the child from baby's body comes to a boy's body, the mother does not cry, "Oh, where is my son, that baby?" She knows that baby has come to this body. Similarly, a person who is in the knowledge of the transmigration of the soul, he knows that "My father, my brother, he's not dead. He has simply changed his body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati. One has to become dhīra, sober, to understand the things as they are. Tathā dehāntaraṁ-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to make people dhīra, not adhīra. Adhīra cannot understand. But even adhīra can understand. Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī, dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. A perfect devotee is dear, both for the dhīra and adhīra. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So for a devotee, both the dhīra and adhīra welcome. We do not say only the perfect persons should come here. No. Perfect or imperfect, come here. Take part with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Dhīrādhīra, it doesn't matter. Because one who's adhīra, by associating with the dhīras, he'll also become dhīra. Just like one is not drunkard, but associating with the drunkards, he becomes a drunkard. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. So similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving chance to everyone. Not to speak of... Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33]. Api cet sudur... What is that verse? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. They also... Te 'pi yānti, yānti parāṁ gatim. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice, even the most sinful person can go back to home, back to Godhead. And what to speak of the pious brāhmaṇas? Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33]. They will go. Even those who are sinful, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll also go. It is so nice.

Woman (2): ...may ask the question... You spoke about transmigration of souls, and reincarnation.



Prabhupāda: Stand up.



Woman (2): ...transmigration of souls, or reincarnation as karma.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Woman (2): ...if you believe in it, could you answer me by telling me how someone who has entered a new body and a new life doesn't remember anything of the past? If, for example, I suffer today because of what I did in the past, any form of retribution or suffering should be for me a total consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you remember from your birth up to date, everything? You remember? Do you remember?



Woman (2): Pardon?



Prabhupāda: From your birth till today, do you remember everything?



Woman (2): No.



Prabhupāda: Then why do you forget in this life? Things which have happened in this life, in your childhood, so many things happened, but do you remember all of them? So that, does it mean that you did not do so?



Woman (2): No.



Prabhupāda: Therefore you, you remember or not remember, it doesn't matter.



Woman (2): But if I'm, if I'm...



*Prabhupāda: That is your nature: you forget. So you do not remember even the incidences of this life. How you can remember the incidents of your past life? Because you are forgetful. You are so imperfect that you forget after two hours everything. That is your nature. That does not mean that you had, you did not do anything. And, besides that, the... You remember or not remember. Suppose your guardian remembers, "My dear child, when you were a small baby, you did it." But you remember no... Similarly Kṛṣṇa is there. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Anumantā upadraṣṭā. He knows everything. You may forget. But Kṛṣṇa knows. "You wanted this thing. All right. Take it. You worked for this. Now I give you the opportunity. You take this. You wanted to eat everything and anything, without any discrimination. All right. Now you become a hog." That is Kṛṣṇa's favor. "And if you wanted Me..."



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhū...,

*mad*-yajino 'pi yānti...

[Bg. 9.25]



*"You wanted Me. You sacrificed everything for Me. Please come on." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So as you work... So therefore this life is the preparation stage for your next life*-either you choice a better life, or a sinful life, or unimportant life. That is your... Just like if you get good education, that will make your future life nice. But if you don't go to school, how you can get a better life? Similarly karma... Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. According to your karma. If you are earned, worked very hard for nice place, you'll get it.



Woman (2): So there's no end to the saṁsāras...



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That... You are very intelligent. In this way, we are creating our karmas. And getting one, one kind of body to another, another, another. Therefore if we want to get out of this cycle of birth and death, then we must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then the facility will be tyaktvā deham... After giving up this body, tyaktvā de..., punar janma naiti. No more birth in this material world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the best service to the humanity, to stop this repetition of birth and death and go to home, back to home, back to Godhead. This is the special benediction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Woman (2): So it is the short*-cut way to...



Prabhupāda: Eh?



*Woman (2): It is a short*-cut to eternal life?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the short*-cut. Just if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, if you are trained up, just after death, you go to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Immediately.



Woman (2): How does it compare with other movements?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Woman (2): How does it compare with other movements?



Prabhupāda: That you have to judge. What can I say? If you don't want to go to Kṛṣṇa, you can do anything else.



Woman (2): I mean... Are these movements leading to Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If you want to meet Kṛṣṇa immediately, then do as these boys are doing, these girls are doing. What is the difficulty? They are Europeans, Americans. They used to eat... They had all the bad habits. Now, for Kṛṣṇa's sake, they have given up everything. They want Kṛṣṇa. They are, they are determined. Dṛḍha*-vratāḥ. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So as soon as you become determined, your success is sure. (end)





730105ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 5, 1973



Pradyumna: (reading) "...propensity expands just as a vibration of light expands, but we do not know where it ends. The *Nectar of Devotion* teaches us the science of loving every one of the living entities perfectly by the easy method of loving Kṛṣṇa. We have failed to create peace and harmony in human society even by such great attempts as the United Nations because we do not know the right method."



Prabhupāda: Hmm. The example is just like there is air vibration, water vibration, the radio message. In one place, the vibration is made, and it goes like waves. It expands. Very quickly, within a second, it expands seven times the earth, so far we have heard. Or if you throw one stone on the lake, they'll become a circle, circle, and the circle expands, unless it goes to the limit. So our loving propensity is there, and it should expand. Ultimately it should reach the lotus feet of the Lord. Then it will be perfect. So this is being explained.



*So nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Our love for Kṛṣṇa is there already, but it is being choked up by material conditions. I want to love, but some blind leader, he comes. He says that "You love your, this country, your society, humanity," and you love your society but you cut throat of another society. This is going on. Because it is imperfect. One side, they're teaching "Love your nation," and cut the throat of another nation. So this kind of love, or this kind of loving propensity will not be ever satisfied. We shall always remain unsatisfied, because this is artificial. The same example: If you want to love, then you have to pour water on the root of the tree. Then it will be all right. Otherwise, if you manufacture so many ways of love, then certainly you'll be confused and frustrated. (aside:) Why don't you sit down here? Come on. Go on.

Pradyumna: "The method is very simple, but one has to understand it with a cool head. The *Nectar of Devotion* teaches all men how to perform the simple and natural method of loving *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*. If we learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, then it is very easy to immediately and simultaneously..."



*Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it is said,



*kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya

*śraddhā-śabde*-viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya



*To be elevated to the transcendental platform of loving service of the Supreme Lord there is a process. The process is that as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. This is the process. You have to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. This yoga system you have to adopt, how to increase your love for Kṛṣṇa. That is not very difficult. Just like this arcana, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. So these are the different processes, how to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. The attachment of Kṛṣṇa is there, but by śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya.



*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*Everyone has got love for Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial thing. Everyone has got. Otherwise how these Europeans and American boys and girls (are) taking to this principle? Why they are mad after Kṛṣṇa? Because it was there. It is not... Artificially, you cannot make such thing. It is not possible. Artificially you cannot make a staunch devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Artificially, one day, two days, three days*-then goes away. Just like it has become in our country. Our love is now for material happiness. Poverty for the last two thousand years or one, little above, one thousand years, India was foreign-subjugated. So they are now thinking that some way or other, if we can become like Americans, skyscraper buildings, our life will be successful. So they have... Artificially, now... They're killing their own culture and trying to imitate. This is artificial. But this artificial way, one cannot be happy. They'll be frustrated. Just (like) the Americans have become frustrated. They have got enough. What is the skyscraper buildings in Bombay? They have got hundred times skyscraper buildings in New York. Hundred times. And what is this skyscraper? Say, twenty stories? There are hundred and four,-five stories. When I first went to New York I saw one building, Empire, Empire State?

Devotees: State.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It was hundred and two stories. Now the others, they have increased to hundred and four,*-five. So... But why these American boys are frustrated. Their fathers, their grandfathers have got enough money, enough skyscraper buildings, but they are not satisfied. They don't want to work like their father and grandfather. They've left. I have got many students, my disciples, their father, very rich man, industrialist, lawyers. But they don't like.



*So this kind, this kind of so*-called happiness will never satisfy us. The real happiness which is within, our love, loving propensity for Kṛṣṇa, that has to be revived. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. It is not by artificial means one becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Nobody can become a lover or devotee of anyone else by artificial means unless there is some natural tendency. So that natural tendency for, to love Kṛṣṇa is there in everyone's heart. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to invoke that natural tendency to love Kṛṣṇa. That is our business. And how it is possible? The śāstra, śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. Śravaṇādi means this process. Just like you have come here; *you are hearing about Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. You may be illiterate, you may be rich, or you may be poor. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Please come, sit down and hear. But in the hearing process, there is so many impediments, māyā. Just like people are coming here to hear, but there has been impediment: "Oh, sir, our lift if being to much used. The electric supply will cut off." Māyā is always there. They will, I mean to say, spend electric energy in so many ways, that is not loss. But people were coming for half an hour and one hour, gentlemen, "No. Electricity will be spoiled." This is māyā. Māyā is always after this checking process. So we have to fight against the māyā, then we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That fighting determination must be there. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. One must be determined. So māyā may check my progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but I must fight māyā. This determination wanted. Dṛḍha*-vratāḥ. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. That is wanted. "All right let me do. All right, not. That's all right. Let me do my business." No. One must be very serious. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ and firmly convinced. These things are required to revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is very easy.

*Śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when there was discussion about śraddhā and sādhana, what is the aim of life and what is the process of achieving that aim of life, this discussion was made between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was questioning and Rāmānanda Rāya was replying. So the first reply was given by Rāmānanda Rāya, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired, "What is the goal of life?" and "What is the process to reach that goal of life?" Very nice question. So Rāmānanda Rāya replied:

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



*He immediately replied that a human being must, first of all, come to the standard of varṇāśrama*-dharma. Four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha... Unless they come systematically, life on these principles, they're animals. They're not human beings. They're... That was our Indian, Vedic civilization. Now they have manufactured their religion: yata mat tata path. You can manufacture your own way and you be satisfied. This is being... So many. You can see in Bombay, so many rascals are preaching. They, there is no standard thing. So it is very difficult for us to give us the right thing, but we are certain. Because we are not cheating people, so it may take some time, but people are gradually coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because this is right thing.



*So varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. This is the beginning of actual human life. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately replied, ihā bāhya āge kaha āra. Ihā bāhya. Bāhya means this is external. This will not very much help at the present moment. And actually that is being done. Just like we are preaching in the Western countries. If we wanted to establish varṇāśrama*-dharma in the beginning, that "You become brāhmaṇa, you become gṛhastha, you become sannyāsī..." No. Then everyone would have rejected: "Sir, we are prepared for this purpose." But the process introduced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu... It is not introduced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is the sanction in the śāstras: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. This is standard method. Because we gave them the chance of hearing, gradually they're coming. Not that immediately you become brāhmaṇa. Now they are becoming more than brāhmaṇas. Here, in India, the brāhmaṇas, they are doing everything. Still they are going in the name of brāhmaṇa. But here, these European brāhmaṇas, American brāhmaṇas, they're real brāhmaṇas, because they have given up all sinful activities. The brāhmaṇa's life is first of all truthful. Truthful. Satya śama dama titikṣa. Controlling the senses, controlling the mind, forbearance and simplicity, full knowledge, application of knowledge, belief in the Vedas-these are the symptoms of brāhmaṇa. Satya śama dama titikṣa ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these brahminical qualifications automatically come. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. This is the test. A devotee shall be qualified with all the godly qualities. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said if you induce people... Because His mission is to propagate this Vedic culture all over the world. He's not confined within some limited area. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. As many villages and towns are there in the world, His mission is to be preached there. So, so if we, in the beginning we say, "You have to become a brāhmaṇa first of all," Who's going to become a brāhmaṇa? Our people are not becoming brāhmaṇa. They'll say, "It is all nonsense. Let us become śūdra." So that is not possible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ihā bāhya āge kaha āra.

*Then Rāmānanda Rāya suggested karma*-miśra-bhakti, then jñāna-miśra-bhakti-bhakti with jñāna, mixed with jñāna, process of jñāna, speculative philosophy; *and bhakti mixed with karma, karma*-kāṇḍīya. Karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra. But real bhakti is jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. It must be untouched by the process of jñāna and karma. It should be spontaneous. Spontaneous. That is bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇa [Brs. 1.1.11]. Spontaneous means when we shall rise to the platform that "Here is a service for Kṛṣṇa. Let me do it." Immediately. "Let me do it." Just like Yudhiṣṭhira was advised by Kṛṣṇa that "You just go to Dronācārya and speak him lie that his son is dead." Yudhiṣṭhira hesitated: "Oh, how can I speak lie? I never done it in my life." This is karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra. This is karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra. He is, he is looking after his own benefit. Karma-kāṇḍa vicāra means I do something and I profit and I enjoy it. I do some sacrifices, I become elevated to the heavenly planet, and I enjoy life. This is karma-kāṇḍa. And jñāna-kāṇḍa means that this world is false: brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā; *therefore let me merge into the Brahman effulgence. Nirbheda brahmānusandhana. This is jñāna*-kāṇḍa. Nirbheda brahmānusandhana. But bhakti means jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. One must be free from this karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra and jñāna-kāṇḍa vicāra. Must be pure devotee. What is that? Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. Simply to carry out.

*So it was the duty of Yudhiṣṭhira to immediately, what Kṛṣṇa said, immediately to execute it. But because he was on the karma*-kāṇḍīya... Of course, they were all devotees, but just to show us... The karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, they hesitated. Just like the brāhmaṇas who were, yajnic brāhmaṇa, who was performing sacrifices and Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's friends became hungry. So they asked Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa we are hungry. Give me... Please arrange for some food." Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, you go immediately there. The brāhmaṇas are performing yajñas, and ask them for some food." They went, but the brāhmaṇas refused. "Oh, the yajña is not yet performed. How we can give you? No, no. Don't talk." So they came back. Then Kṛṣṇa said, "Go to their wives, the yajñic brāhmaṇa patnī. Go to their wives." And as soon as they went to the wives, they heard Kṛṣṇa's name, they were very much beloved to Kṛṣṇa. Immediately, whatever was there for the yajña, immediately they brought to Kṛṣṇa. This is bhakti. And the yajñic brāhmaṇas were in the karma-kāṇḍīya platform, but they were devotees. But when actually it was performed... What is that verse? Dik janma...?

Indian man: Dik janma tri veda vidvān. Dik janma aha. Tri vid vidvān means *Vedas*...



Prabhupāda: (interjecting) Yes, yes, yes.



Indian man: What all these *Vedas*...? Because useless. Dig janma... got worldly..., family, is also useless. Tri vid vidvān..., bahut jñānam...



Prabhupāda: Bahut jñānam.



Indian man: ...dik kulam



Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa, born in brāhmaṇa family. Yes.



Indian man: ...dik kriyā.



*Prabhupāda: So this is bhakti. And bhakti means spontaneously responding to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. There is no... Therefore it is transcendental platform. It is not on this material... Material platform, karma*-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. But bhakti is above.



māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



Transcendental platform.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that this karma*-kāṇḍīya vicāra, that is also nice, those who are in the too much bodily concept of life. But it is very difficult to raise the people to the karma-kāṇḍīya, jñāna-kāṇḍīya vicāra. In this age especially, they have become so fallen that it is not possible for them to raise them, either karma-kāṇḍīya, jñāna-kāṇḍīya or yogic process. This is not possible. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. If you follow karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, jñāna-kāṇḍīya vicāra or yogic process, it is very difficult. Therefore the only process is,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*And Narottama, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that karma*-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali visera bandha amrta baliya yeba khaya. So suppose karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, you, you get elevated to the heavenly planet. That's all right, by karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra. But what Kṛṣṇa says about this elevation? Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām [Bg. 7.23]. These results derived out of karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, they are temporary. Of course, we do..., we do not know what kind of temporary. But temporary means even if you live for many millions of years, that is also temporary, because you are eternal. So somebody's living for one year, somebody's living for one minute, and somebody's living for one million or more than that. Just like Brahma's life: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. That is also temporary. Our problem is to get our eternal life again. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ pa. [Bg. 15.6].. This is the process. One should go to such a place that he'll not have to come back again to this temporary world. So karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa means you can be elevated to the heavenly planet by karma-kāṇḍīya process, or even to the Brahmā planet, Brahmaloka, Satyaloka, but what Kṛṣṇa says? Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16].



So that will not give us the ultimate benefit. The ultimate benefit is,

mām upetya (tu) kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gataḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*That is wanted. One has to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the perfection of life. This human life should be utilized for going back to home, back to... But they have no idea. They do not know what is God, where is back to home, back to Godhead*-nothing, no education, although the knowledge is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and other śāstras. Everything is there, but we have become so fools that we take Bhagavad-gītā and comment in a different way so that people may not understand. He does not understand himself, and how he'll explain? Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Because without becoming a devotee, nobody can understand Bhagavad-gītā. That's a fact. So they, one may be very good scholar, ABCD, but the ABCD knowledge is not sufficient to understand. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam [Bg. 4.3]. Simply by erudite scholarship you cannot understand. Then Kṛṣṇa would have selected somebody else who is scholarly advanced. But He was selecting Arjuna, although he was a soldier. He was not a Vedantist, he was not a brāhmaṇa, but he was ordinary soldier. Maybe royal family. Gṛhastha. But He selected him. Why? Bhakto 'si: because he was devotee. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā is to be understood by devotee from the very beginning.



*So one has to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Then we can understand the teachings of the Vedas. Vedas means vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Any way you go, either... Bhagavad*-gītā is also Vedic literature. Bhāgavata is also Vedic literature. So either you take directly Vedas, Īśopaniṣad, or Upaniṣad, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa se tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāra. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung that vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukura baliyā jānaha more. He's presenting himself, "My dear sir, Vaiṣṇava, kindly accept me as your dog." Davita... What is that song? You have forgotten?

Śyāmasundara: I don't know.



Indian man: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: No. Vai...



Indian man: Kṛṣṇa se tomāra...



*Prabhupāda: Ah. Kṛṣṇa se tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāra, tomāra śakati āche. This is a fact. If you want Kṛṣṇa, then you have to approach a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He can give you, deliver you. Vedeṣu durlabha adurlabha ātma*-bhaktau. If one is Kṛṣṇa devotee, he can deliver Kṛṣṇa: "Take Him. Here is Kṛṣṇa." That is the special prerogative of devotee. Kaunteya pratijānīhi. Vaiṣṇava... Kṛṣṇa is advising Arjuna, because he's devotee, that "You declare, na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati." So He could declare Himself. No. He wants to declare everything through His devotee. Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin. He want to see that Arjuna becomes victorious, although He was conducting, actually He was doing this victory also, war. So in this way, kṛṣṇa-bhakti, nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti, if we simply invoke our kṛṣṇa-bhakti, that is success of life. Some way or other. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says that yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. Somehow or other, just be absorbed within your mind about Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. Some way or other. It doesn't matter which way. And another place Rūpa Gosvāmī says, kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate. Purchase this kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if it is available somewhere. Tatra laulyam eka mūlyam, na janma koṭibhiḥ sukṛtibhiḥ labhyate.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very rare thing, but, by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, it is being distributed all over the world freely. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace. Mahā*-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. If we adopt the method of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then we can distribute what Kṛṣṇa..., Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa. Knowledge of Kṛṣṇa may be distributed. The scholars and the paṇḍitas, they can understand, but love of Kṛṣṇa is different thing. That is a different thing. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is distributing love of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te.

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*So if we follow through the path chalked out by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then Kṛṣṇa also, although He..., it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahareṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. But through the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu... And to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu means to follow the six Gosvāmīs, because these six Gosvāmīs were directly instructed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to spread this movement. He instructed Rūpa Gosvāmī continually for ten days in Prayāga, Daśāśvamedha ghāṭa. He instructed Sanātana Gosvāmī for two months in Benares. And they have given us this invaluable literature. There are so many other literatures, of which the Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, we have translated into English: Nectar of Devotion. So try to follow this book. Rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is singing,



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhaba śrī yugala*-pīriti



*The sahajiyās, they immediately try to understand the love affairs of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī. That is sahajiyism. Here we have to take instruction from Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. First of all we have to take the mercy of Rūpa-Raghunātha, Gosvāmīs. Then if there is, our luck is good, then we can understand what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa prema. You, it is not a thing to be understood by the common man in the bazaar, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, in spite of hearing Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā for many, many years, they remain in the same position, not a single step forward, what to..., to understand Kṛṣṇa? Because they do not try to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa through the channel chalked out by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Gosvāmīs. We must know. Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary. Rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śakti. This is the manifestation of the ahlādinī śakti of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not enjoy any material thing. The gopīs and Rādhārāṇī, they are not these ordinary girls. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37].



*So this is the process. We don't, therefore, advise people that immediately come to understand rasa*-līlā. No. We never do so. First of all, understand Kṛṣṇa by the channel, by the proper method. Then gradually, when you are actually purified, they you'll understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

*rūpa*-raghunātha-padehaibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhaba śrī*-yugala-pīriti



*They don't become sahajiyā, to understand Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa just like ordinary... They're understanding Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and they're inclined to so many nonsense things. If one understands Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa, his impulse for sex life, vīta rāga kāma, immediately will be finished. He'll never think of... As Yamunā, Yamunācārya says, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor. You know the verse?



Indian man: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Cite it. Yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor. Yamunācārya.



Indian man: Oh, ahh...



Prabhupāda: No. This verse:



*yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor

*nava*-nava-(rasa-)dhāmany (udyataṁ) rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi mama bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*So this is the test. If actually one understands Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā, then they'll forget forever this sex life of the material world. This is the test. So our request is that don't try to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Just worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa according to the arcana-vidhi. Then gradually Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa will be pleased, Caitanya Mahāprabhu will be pleased, and svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. When They are pleased by your sevā, then They will reveal. Don't try to jump over to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. That will not help us.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730106ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 6, 1973



Prabhupāda: Hm. Read it.



Pradyumna: "As far as material necessities are concerned, the human civilization at the present moment is very much advanced in living comfortably, but still we are not happy because we are missing the point. The material comforts of life alone are not sufficient to make us happy. The vivid example is America: the richest nation of the world, having all facilities for material comfort, is producing a class of men completely confused and frustrated in life. I am appealing herewith to such confused men to learn the art of devotional service as directed in The *Nectar of Devotion*, and I am sure that the fire of material existence burning within their hearts will be immediately extinguished. The root cause of our dissatisfaction is that our dormant loving propensity has not been fulfilled despite our great advancement in the materialistic way of life. The *Nectar of Devotion* will give us practical hints how we can live in this material world perfectly engaged in devotional service and thus fulfill all our desires in this life and in the next."



*Prabhupāda: So, people are misled. They are thinking that by material comfort they will be happy. And practically we are seeing, this competition of material comfort... The capitalist and the labor class, worker class, they are fighting*-strike. Actually, the propensity is that... That is explained in Marshall's theory of economics. We were student of economics. So in that book Mr. Marshall explained that the family affection is the origin of economic impetus. That's a fact. These hippies, they have no family affection. They are not married, and therefore there is no economic impetus. They can live in any way, any wretched condition of life. And one who is married, responsible man, he has got some responsibility to see that..., provided he has got affection for the family. Otherwise, practically, so-called family life, there is no affection.



*So this is a fact. The family affection... Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī*-bhāvam etat. There is a propensity of men, association with woman, mithunī-bhāvam etat. Everyone is trying to find out a man or woman. And when they unite, that attraction becomes tightly knot. Tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ [SB 5.5.8]. Hṛdaya-granthim. And then the economic impetus starts. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ. Gṛha, home; kṣetra, land, or the office for earning money; *gṛha*-kṣetra-suta, children; friends, āpta; *and vitta, money-in this way one becomes entangled in the so-called economic development. Dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. People take to religion mostly for economic development. People go to temple, church, for economic development. "O God, give us our daily bread," in the church they pray. This is economic development. So materially they want... Anyway, they want to be happy materially. That is bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Materially means this body. This body is matter, and I, the person who is living within the body, I am spirit. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe. Asmin dehe, dehinaḥ [Bg. 2.13]. There is the proprietor. We have several times explained, but people do not know this. As soon as one understands that "I am not this body. I am different from this body," then his interest becomes different. Because he is under ignorance that "I am this body," therefore he's acting, working for this body. And as soon as he comes to the spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ, he is no more interested in bodily comforts. That is the Vedic civilization, that one is educated to become introspective. He is educated to become introspective. The brāhmaṇas, just like they are happy in any condition of life. That is our Vedic civilization. They accept poverty... Not accept poverty. They are not very much interested. Either lie down on the ground or lie down on the sofa*-they don't find any difference, because they are not interested with these bodily comforts. People may say, "Oh, this is very uncivilized way, the primitive way of life, that he is lying down on the ground just like animal." But he does not know that he is not interested either lying down..., because when we sleep he forgets whether he lying down on the ground or lying on... (laughter) So that is not very important thing. But at the present moment they have taken that lying down on a very nice bedstead, cot, and silken bed, that is advancement of civilization. But that is not advancement of civilization-yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]-because he is under the bodily concept of life. So what is this body? It is made of tri-dhātu: kapha, pitta, vāyu. So I am kapha-pitta-vāyu? No. I am different. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This knowledge is lacking.

*So the actually our desire is that "There must be easygoing life. I shall not work very much. I shall live in a comfortable house in a secluded place and live peacefully." That is his desire. But because he does not know how to get that desire fulfilled, he is trying to get that desire fulfilled on the bodily comforts of life. This is the mistake. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know. That is the svārtha. Because, as it is said in the Vedas, God... Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to work. God has nothing to work for His economic development. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Na tasya sama adhikaś ca dṛśyate. And because He is God, nobody is equal to Him and nobody greater than Him. Sama adhikaś ca na dṛśyate, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. His energies are multi-energies, varieties of energies, and the energies are so perfect that svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca: everything is happening automatically. So that is actually life. Why one should...? Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs, that's all. Why should He work? Why God should work? Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. So because we are part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa, we are also trying to achieve that life, that "There will be no, no more to work. Let me accumulate some bank balance, the interest will come, and I shall sit down in a nice apartment, and everything will come automatically and I will enjoy life." That is actually life, because we are part and parcel of God. So God has nothing to do. Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do. So we also have nothing to do. Why we are working? They are taking, "This is pleasure." This material life means... Because mostly they are infected with two qualities of material modes of nature, namely ignorance and passion. So impeded by this ignorance and passion they are working very hard, just like an ass, and still they are thinking that "I am happy." He comes back to home, working very, very hard in the office, and he thinks, "Now I... My successful... I have earned so much money." This is the nature of material life, that he will work very hard and he will think, "That is my life." This is material life. But actually, if you are actually happy, then why you have to work so hard? But that is nonsense. He is nonsense. He does not know. Therefore the karmīs are called mūḍhas, asses. The ass works hard for the washerman, and the washerman gives him a morsel of grass and he thinks, "I am happy." This is ass mentality. He has worked very hard, but getting that little bunch of grass. He can get it anywhere, but he thinks that "This washerman gives it. Therefore I have to work..." Or he does not know that "I'm working for it." This is ass mentality.

*So actual life is that there should be no work. Why? Ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Just like Kṛṣṇa is displaying how He's happy with His cowherds boys, with the gopīs, with His father, with His mother. And those who are dependent on Kṛṣṇa, they are so confident. Just like the cowherds boys. Kṛṣṇa goes every day to the forest, and there is some demon comes, and simply the cowherds boys, "No, there is Kṛṣṇa. We don't care for this demon." You see? And the demon is killed, and they come home and they narrate the story to their mother: "O my dear mother, Kṛṣṇa did this wonderful thing." The mother is also very appreciative: "Oh, our Kṛṣṇa is so nice. He can do wonderful. He must be some demigod," like that, gossiping. So actually this is life. This Vṛndāvana life is actual life. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. What is this life, working so hard day and night, no, and discovering so many things, and as soon as the water supply is stopped, everything stops? The electricity will stopped, the electric train will stop, the lift will stop, the light will stop, and everything, there will be havoc. You see? So this artificial life is not actual life. We are perceiving. Suppose there have been no rain for one or two years. There is a time when for hundreds of years there will be no rain. You have to wait for that time. That time is coming at the end of Kali-yuga. For hundreds of years there will be no rain, and everything on the earth will be burned into ashes. Not only there will be rain, but the sunshine will be twelve times hot, twelve times hotter than the present. The temperature will increase. These are stated in the Bhāgavata. Then everything will be turned into ashes. And then there will be torrents of rain. So these descriptions are there.

So it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This place, we are trying to live very comfortably in a place. That is not very good intelligence. Because Kṛṣṇa, the creator, He said, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Mām upetya kaunteya...

Indian: Punar janma na vidyate.



Prabhupāda: Punar jan...



Indian: Punar janma na vidyate.



*Prabhupāda: No, no, another is. Duḥkhālayaṁ nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramām... So our aim should be how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the real mission of human life. Because after... Asatiṁś cāturaṁś caiva lakṣaṁs tān jīva*-jātiṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of life. After evolving, we have come to this human form of life. Tad apy viphalā jātaḥ. So if we do not understand Govinda, govinda-caraṇa-dvayam, then it is viphalā. It is simply misused. The modern civilization, they do not know this. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating people that "You are simply wasting your time." "No. I am doing my duty." The people say, "This is my..." The doctor says, "I am doing my duty." The engineer says, "I am doing my duty." The father says, "I am doing my duty." The mother says, "I am doing my duty." That's all right. But Bhāgavata says, "Thank you very much, that you are doing your duty."



dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



"You are doing your duty very nice. That's all right. But by doing your duty, if you do not develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are simply wasting your time."



*So these people, they do not know. They are thinking that "We are doing our duty." What is this nonsense duty? Real duty is to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you are missing that point, the so*-called duty is simply wasting...

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*So they do not know this. They are doing their... Everyone is engaged in his duty. They are not interested to hear about Kṛṣṇa-kathā*-that is the real business of life-because they are engaged in duty, duty. So why they do that? Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know the real duty is to approach Viṣṇu, svartha-gatim, interest. They are thinking, "This is my interest." Real duty is svārtha-gatim. Everyone should be interested in his business, but the real business is, human life, that approach Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanty surayaḥ. Those who are actually advanced Aryans, their business is how to approach Viṣṇu. That is the Ṛg-mantra. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā [SB 7.5.31]. They are thinking by these bodily comforts they will be happy. No. That is not possible. The real happiness is different. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. And anyone who will give him false hope that "If you get independence, then overnight you will become like this, like this, like that," that leader is very nice. If there is some political meeting giving only bluff, lots of bluffs only, and people gather there by thousands and millions to hear the bluff... Because... My Guru Mahārāja therefore used to say that this present human society is a society of the cheaters and the cheated. Somebody is being cheated and somebody is cheater, a combination of two things, cheater and the cheated, because they do not know the real interest of life. And anyone who will speak all nonsense and bluff, he will be very much adored. This is going on.



But actual interest is... Human life should be sober. He should... Therefore the first beginning of real life is to understand that "I am not this body." This is the first lesson. But where is that education? Throughout the whole world, go anywhere. Where is that education that students are being taught that "You are not this body"? There is no education. Then what is the value of this education? To keep them andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31], to keep them in the darkness. That is going on. This is the only institution which is giving people real life.

*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*So our request is, therefore, that try to understand this Kṛṣṇa philosophy and take to it seriously. Then your life will be successful. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time. This is our message. And if you want to talk, if you want to argue, then also we are prepared. We have prepared so many books for this purpose. Now this is the fact. If you accept it, it is good. Then the next question may be that "Why the people do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? If it is so important, why they do not take to it?" That is also explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām. Gṛha-vratānām. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. So matir na kṛṣṇe. If one sticks to this principle, that "I shall be happy with this material body, I shall be happy within this material world, within my country, within my society," in this way, if one thinks, they are called gṛha-vrata. So for such persons, gṛha-vratānām, those who want to become happy within this bodily envelopment, they are... [break] Therefore from the beginning of life one has to be educated the value of life or approach a devotee.



What is that next verse, Prahlāda Mahārāja?

matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram...

[SB 7.5.30]



*Adānta*-gobhiḥ. Because they cannot control their senses... The yoga system means to control the senses. Now yoga system has become a means of making the senses strong to enjoy. At the present moment, the so-called yoga system is a exercise for making the body strong and senses strong. There is another verse I forget. Na vṛṇīta tāvad. Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim.



naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ

*spṛśaty anarthāpagamo yad*-arthaḥ

*mahīyasāṁ pāda*-rajo 'bhiṣekaṁ

niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yāvat

[SB 7.5.32]



*Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. Kṛṣṇe matiḥ, by personal endeavor, svataḥ, or by taking lessons from others... Just like we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, attending meeting also, conference also. But still, matir na kṛṣṇe. But that can be achieved only, naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim, unless one surrenders to the mahīyasāṁ pāda*-rajo 'bhiṣekam. Unless one surrenders to the dust of the lotus feet of pure devotee, Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be developed. It is not possible. That is the secret. Otherwise you go on attending thousands of meetings and bhāgavata-saptāha and so-called, I mean to say, sat-saṅga. Unless you surrender to a person... Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Unless you surrender... This is a process of surrender. As soon as there is a lack of surrendering process, it is very difficult. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Surrender." So Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's representative, one should surrender. Then kṛṣṇe matir bhavatu anyathā naiva. So matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta. This was instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Then next, read. What is that?



Pradyumna: "The material comforts of life are not sufficient to make us happy. The vivid example is America."



Prabhupāda: Yes, this is vivid example. In America there is no scarcity of food, there is no scarcity of anything. Here we cannot imagine that how there cannot be any scarcity of food because here everything is scarcity, controlled. So similarly, I have seen Russia. Russia is advertising, "So much comfortable," but the poorest country, in my opinion. They stand in line as here, controlled everything. If you have to purchase your necessities, you have to waste two hours at least. Where is Śyāmasundara? Śyāmasundara has gone, huh? So Śyāmasundara was going to purchase our things. So rice practically not available, nice quality. Dahl also not. The butter is available, milk is available, and meat, as much as you like. And no fruits, no vegetables. It was very difficult for the vegetarians. And still, that is everything. He had to spend two hours for bringing milk and butter and little rice. So everything is controlled. What I was speaking?



Pradyumna: "The material comforts of life alone are not sufficient to make us happy. The vivid example is America."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. And America, just the contrary. You can purchase any amount of milk, any amount of wheat, any amount of rice*-whatever you want. Everything, everything is complete. So many stores, so many stock. And still, their production is so great that government restricts, "Don't produce crops. Don't produce crops." They bribe the farmer that "Don't produce." And I think the land, America, not even one fourth of the land is utilized. If they utilized the whole land, I do not know how much they can produce. I think they can feed the whole world if they utilize. Similarly, I have seen in Australia. Similarly, I have seen in Africa-enough land is lying without cultivation. So God has given us the capacity to cultivate, to produce food. We can produce food, enough quantity. There is no question of scarcity. The scarcity is due to our godlessness. Otherwise, by God's arrangement, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. It is pūrṇam. Everything is complete. Just like nature, nature's produces. Sometimes in some season we see there is ample productions of mangoes, and sometimes there is no mango. So after all, it is in the hand of nature, prakṛti. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti is producing, producing; prakṛti is reducing; *and behind the prakṛti there is Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. So just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa and do your duty. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṇ-manobhiḥ. Then everything will be complete. There will be no scarcity. This philosophy, they do not know. They want to... Like Kaṁsa, they want to make minus Kṛṣṇa. Like Rāvaṇa, they want to make minus Rāma, and the result is that with their all family, all their wealth and everything, material advance-vanquished, finished. That is prakṛti. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. They are trying to avoid God. They are trying to become independent of God. Then what is the benefit? In every step we are seeing that we are dependent on God. Because God has not supplied rain for one year, there is so much catastrophe going on. But still, they will not take it. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. Parato svato vā. If we advise that "You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and act accordingly. You will be all happy," "No." Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. Because they have designed their own plan. So this is going on. Then?



Pradyumna: "The vivid example is America: the richest nation of the world, having all facilities for material comfort, is producing a class of men completely confused and frustrated in life. I am appealing herewith to such confused men..." Oh. "The root cause of our dissatisfaction is that our dormant loving propensity has not been fulfilled despite our great advancement in the materialistic way of life. The *Nectar of Devotion* will give us practical hints how we can live in this material world perfectly engaged in devotional service and thus fulfill all our desires in this life and the next. The *Nectar of Devotion* is not presented to condemn..."



Prabhupāda: If you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, all your desires will be fulfilled. That is also fact.



*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhiḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



*It is not that... Sometimes we think like that, that "If we become devotee of God, then I'll become poor." Because Vaiṣṇavas are generally appear to be poor, so those who are after material happiness, they do not like to become Vaiṣṇavas. They become devotee of Lord Śiva, because by the grace of Lord Śiva they get all material facilities. Therefore generally people are very much fond of becoming devotee of Lord Śiva. This question was discussed between Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja..., not, Parīkṣit Mahārāja and Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired this, that "Lord Viṣṇu is the master of goddess of fortune, but generally we find the Vaiṣṇavas are poor. And Lord Śiva, he hasn't got even a house, so still, his devotees are very prosperous." So the explanation was given that Lord Śiva is the master of these material opulences, Durgā*-devī. Durgā-devī is his wife, the material nature. So devotees of Lord Śiva can get all material facilities. And Lord Viṣṇu..., because he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, therefore gradually his material affection is curtailed. Of course, when he is advanced in devotion then his material comforts are not curtailed. But when he is not advanced, if he thinks that "By becoming Vaiṣṇava I shall be materially very opulent and I shall enjoy this material enjoyment," then it is curtailed. That is explained in Bhāgavata and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanam. Because Viṣṇu knows that "He wants Me, at the same time he wants some material opulence, so this is his ignorance. This is his ignorance. If he wants material opulence, then he has to remain here within this material world. But he wants Me." So to have Kṛṣṇa, that is in the spiritual world. So if you have got attachment for this material world, then you cannot go. A slight attachment for this material world will oblige him to take another birth. If the mind is absorbed in karma or material comfort, then Kṛṣṇa will give you, "All right. You take this work again." Even great yogis, because they think of material comforts, they are called bhraṣṭa. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatām. Although the facility is given to take birth in the family of high brāhmaṇa or high, rich man, but it is material. It is material life. And one who becomes perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, he hasn't got to. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. He is immediately transferred to Kṛṣṇa.



*But people are enamored by this material life to have high parentage, janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. They are enamored by these things. "I must have birth in high family, in brāhmaṇa family, in king's family, in heavenly planet, in demigod's family." They think this is life. But a devotee knows, "No, this is not life." For devotee... Vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate. What to speak of this rich family or that family or brāhmaṇa family? Vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate. Even vidhi... Vidhi means Lord Brahma, and mahendra means Lord Indra. They are also considered, "What? They are insects, a pāpa living entity, just like ordinary insects." That is the position. The devotee is richest. Just like somebody... We were discussing. Somebody was speaking about me that "You are richest." Yes, I am richest. Why not richest? Because a devotee does not care liberation. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. The jñānīs are after merging into the Brahman effulgence. A devotee thinks, "What is this Brahman effulgence?" Narakāyate tri-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate. And the heavenly planet, that is phantasmagoria. What is this? Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. And the yogis, they are trying to subjugate the indriyas. But for devotees, although the indriyas are just like serpent, the poison teeth have been taken away. Because the devotees' indriyas-hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]*-that is now differently engaged. A devotees' indriyas are not engaged for sense gratification. His indriyas are engaged for satisfying Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the poison teeth of indriya is broken. This is the process. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate yat-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatām. This verse was written by one of your South Indian devotee of Lord Caitanya, Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. So he, I mean to say, realized, yat-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatāṁ taṁ gauram eva stumaḥ: "By the mercy of Lord Caitanya I have achieved this success." Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tri-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate (Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5).

*So actually devotee is the richest because they don't care even for yoga*-siddhi or heavenly planet or merging into the Brahman effulgence or become very rich and a brāhmaṇa, or... No. They don't want. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No."

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



*This is devotee. This is pure devotion. They don't want anything. Therefore they are śāntaḥ. If you want śāntaḥ, then you stop demanding, "I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this." So long you'll want, you are in need, how there can be santaḥ? There is no possibility. Bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. Everyone... Bhukti means karmī, and mukti means jñānī, and siddhi means yogi. They are wanting something. So they cannot be śāntaḥ. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śāntaḥ [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta doesn't want anything. Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa-bhakta even does not want Kṛṣṇa even. He wants only Kṛṣṇa's service. That's all. "Why I shall bother Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is busy in His own business. Let Him dance with the gopīs. I shall simply serve Him. That's all. Why shall I want Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I disturb Him?" This is devotion.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. (end)





721026ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 26, 1972



Pradyumna: "The *Nectar of Devotion* is specifically presented for persons who are now engaged in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I beg to offer my sincere thanks to all my friends and disciples who are helping me..."



Prabhupāda: That's all. So, next page.



Pradyumna: "Invoking auspiciousness: Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the reservoir of all rasas, or relationships, which are called neutrality, or passive adoration, servitorship, friendship, parenthood, conjugal love, comedy, compassion, fear, chivalry, ghastliness, wonder and devastation. He is the supreme attractive form, and by His universal and transcendental attractive features, He has captivated all the gopīs, headed by Tārakā, Pālikā, Śyāmā, Lalitā, and ultimately, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Let His Lordship's grace be on us so that there may not be any hindrance in the execution of this duty of writing The *Nectar of Devotion*, impelled by His Divine Grace Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda."



*Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is described as akhila*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So there are different rasas, five primary rasas. Rasa means the mellow or the taste which we enjoy in every activity. That is called rasa. Everything is done with some taste. Whatever you do, you must enjoy some taste out of it. So there are twelve rasas, out of which five rasas are primary and seven rasas are secondary. They are described here.



When Kṛṣṇa was fighting with Bhīṣma... You know the story, that Bhīṣma was criticized by Duryodhana: "My dear Grandfather, you are not fighting in full strength with Arjuna because the, on the other side, they are your grandsons, and you have got, you have got very natural affection for them. So I think you are not fighting according to your strength. Otherwise, they would have been finished by this time." So Bhīṣma also could understand that, his criticism. Then he promised immediately that: "Tomorrow I shall finish all these five brothers. Will that be happy for you? So I am keeping five arrows to be used tomorrow for killing these five brothers." So Duryodhana became doubtful. So he request grandfather, "My dear grandfather, may I keep these five arrows with me so that you can take it from me tomorrow and use it?" "All right, you keep it."

So Kṛṣṇa could understand that "Now Bhīṣma has promised to kill the Pāṇḍavas tomorrow, and he has selected five arrows for them." So He has to protect His devotees. Now, He asked Arjuna that "Duryodhana sometimes promised to give you some benediction. Now it is the opportunity. You go there to Duryodhana. And he has kept five arrows very carefully; you take it, them." So Arjuna went to Duryodhana... Because after fighting, in the evening, they were friends. There was no enmity. One man can go to the other camp as friend, brothers. So when Arjuna arrived to Duryodhana, Duryodhana received him. That is Vedic etiquette. "Arjuna, why you have come? You ask something from me. I am ready to give you. If you want the kingdom without fighting, if you have come for this purpose, I'll give you." So Arjuna said: "No, my dear brother, I've not come for that purpose. But you remember that you wanted to give me some benediction. So I have come for that." "Yes, I am prepared." "So you give me those five arrows." He immediately delivered.

So next morning, when Bhīṣmadeva asked that "Where are those five arrows? Give me," So Duryodhana said, "Sir, this is the story. It has been taken away by Arjuna." So he could understand it is the trick of Kṛṣṇa. So immediately he, out of devotion, became angry. Yes. So devotion, devotional service can be executed in anger also. Not by simply flowers. If he, there is a devotee, he can serve Kṛṣṇa by becoming angry. So he promised immediately that "Today Kṛṣṇa has to break His promise." Because Kṛṣṇa promised that "Although I shall be in the battlefield, I shall simply drive your chariot, but I shall not fight." That was His promise. Now Bhīṣma said that "Kṛṣṇa has broken my promise. So I shall fight in this way today that either Kṛṣṇa has to break His own promise or His friend Arjuna will be killed." Two alternatives.

So when Bhīṣma was fighting very fiercely, severely, Arjuna's chariot became broken and he fell down; at that time Kṛṣṇa took one of the wheels of the chariot and immediately approached Bhīṣma, and when He was approaching Bhīṣma, Bhīṣma was also piercing His body with arrows. And Kṛṣṇa was accepting the arrows move lovable than the flowers. This is the dealing. Therefore that is a rasa, ghastly rasa. Apparently it appears to be very severe, that Kṛṣṇa is being pierced by the arrows. But Kṛṣṇa was feeling pleasure. So Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has explained this portion very nicely, that he has given the example of kissing. Sometimes there is hard pressure of the teeth, but still it is pleasurable. He has given this example, that although Kṛṣṇa was being pierced by the arrows Bhīṣmadeva, still Kṛṣṇa felt very pleasing. And Bhīṣmadeva also, when he was on his death bed, he wanted to see that form of Kṛṣṇa when He was very angry and approaching before him to kill him in the battlefield. He explained that feature.

*So we can enjoy Kṛṣṇa's loving service in so many ways. Not only by the embrace of the gopīs, but in the fight of Bhīṣma with Kṛṣṇa and piercing His body with arrows. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is akhila*-rasāmṛta. Any one rasa... There are twelve rasas, either primary rasa or secondary rasa. Any rasa, Kṛṣṇa is ready to respond to any rasa you want to deal with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa's position. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt dveṣāt. So what to speak of those who are loving. Just like Pūtanā. Pūtanā wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. That was his, that was her purpose. But when Pūtanā was killed by sucking her breast and life both, then Pūtanā was given the position of Kṛṣṇa's mother. Because Kṛṣṇa took it the bright side. Kṛṣṇa thought that "Whatever her intention may be, she came to Me just like a mother, and I sucked her breast. Therefore she is My mother." She came as enemy, but Kṛṣṇa did not take the inimical side. The motherly side. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya [SB 10.33.29]. Similarly, the gopīs, they came to Kṛṣṇa out of lust, but out of lust, they became purified. Just like the sun. The sun soaks the water from urinal, but sun is not polluted, but the urinal becomes sterilized. This is the process. So you try to approach Kṛṣṇa, some way or other. Then your life is successful. It doesn't matter. Kāmāt krodhād bhayād dveṣāt.

And what to speak of those who are constantly engaged in love with Kṛṣṇa. Everything is love. As soon as you divert your attention to Kṛṣṇa, that is love. It may be perverted. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa... He was also Kṛṣṇa conscious. But he was thinking in terms of killing Kṛṣṇa, as enemy. So this is not bhakti. This is not anukūla. Pratikūla. But still, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that Kaṁsa was also given liberation. This is the special kindness of Kṛṣṇa. So any rasa. There are twelve rasas. Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. That is the direction given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī." Some way or other, fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa." Then your life is successful. Some way or other. Yena tena. So if your mind is fixed up always in Kṛṣṇa, then your senses will be also engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Because mind is the center of all activities of the senses.

*So as Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he first of all engaged his mind in Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. By fixing up his mind in Kṛṣṇa, then he could use all other senses, namely the tongue... Actually bhakti begins with the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Beginning from tongue, Kṛṣṇa-bhakti begins. It may be very awkward to hear, that "By tongue, how bhakti begins?" But that is the statement in the śāstras. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Our present senses, blunt, materially covered, it cannot taste what is Kṛṣṇa's name, what is Kṛṣṇa's form, what is Kṛṣṇa's quality, what is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, what is Kṛṣṇa's paraphernalia. Senses, they taste. But... Just like in, when one is suffering from liver disease, or jaundice, he cannot taste the sugar candy. The sugar candy is sweet, but a jaundiced patient, if he's given sugar candy, he'll taste it is bitter. Similarly, our senses being covered with material consciousness, we cannot at the present moment taste what is Kṛṣṇa's form, what is Kṛṣṇa's name, what is Kṛṣṇa's quality, what is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, what is Kṛṣṇa's paraphernalia, so many things. It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Our senses are materially contaminated. Therefore we cannot directly perceive by using our present senses what is Kṛṣṇa. So it has to be purified.

*Just like eyes. When it is suffering from the disease, cataract, you cannot see properly. But the, if the, by surgical operation, the cataract is moved, the eyes become purified, you can see. That is also stated in Brahma*-saṁhitā:

*premāñjana*-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yam śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*Premāñjana*-cchurita. You have to collect the ointment of love for Kṛṣṇa. And if you apply that ointment on your eyes, then... Just like we use surma (?) for clear vision, similarly, when the love of Kṛṣṇa surma is applied on the eyes, these eyes, you'll see Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.



*Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. You have to get yourself freed from the upādhis, designations. The designation, the sun and substance of designation: this material body. "I am this body." "I am Hindu." "I am Mussulman." "I am American." "I am Hin..., Indian." All designation of this body. So one has to become freed from the contamination of this bodily concept of life. That is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. When our spiritual body becomes revealed, the material body, contamination, is washed off, nirmalam. At that time, the senses remain. Senses are there. It is simply covered by the material energies. The senses are there. The living entity is not nirākāra. Living entity has got hands, legs, everything, spiritual. Just like my, I have got my body, and this body's covered by this shirt, and because I have got this hand, the shirt has got hand. Otherwise wherefrom this hand comes? Unless the spirit soul has got hands and legs, how we have got these material hands and legs?

*Therefore it is, the conclusion is that spirit soul has form. As Kṛṣṇa has got form, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], similarly spirit soul, jīvātmā, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, it has got form. That form is also described in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca, jīva bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. A rough idea of the form of the living entity has been given in the Padma Purāṇa that one ten thousandth part of the tip of the hair... Now, perhaps we have no instrument how to measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. But this is given there. So anyway, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body, material body is, is like a dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāny yathā vihāya. As we give up old dress, garment, similarly, when this body becomes useless, we give up this body and accept another new body. Navāni ghṛṇāti.

*This is the transmigration of the soul. The soul is transmigrating form one body to another. That is a fact. But the gross, gross materialists, they cannot see the subtle body. They simply see the gross body. Therefore they say, "When this body is finished, this gross body's finished, everything is finished." No, that is not. Within the gross body, there is subtle body, made of mind, intelligence and ego. So that is... Just like in every day we have got experience. The gross body is lying on the bed, but the subtle body goes out of the bed, out of the room, goes on the top of a hill or somewhere. It works. That is our practical experience. Similarly, when this gross body is finished, no more usable, the subtle body carries the soul to another womb of the mother. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Through the semina of the father, the living entity is injected within the womb of the mother, and the two secretions becomes emulsified, and it becomes just like a small pea, and within that pea the soul is there, and it develops. This is the process of transmigration of the soul from one body to another.

*So soul has got form. It is not formless. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa has got also form. But that form is different from this form. When in the śāstras it is said, nirākāra, nirākāra means nirākṛta ākāra, "This ākāra, this form, is being nullified." Nirākāra does not mean there is no ākāra. This body. When it is said, nirākāra, that means the soul, the Supersoul or the soul, has no this ākāra, as we see. Just like we are seeing some dog or some cat or some hog, some tree, some plants, so many, eight million four hundred thousands of forms, but this is not the form. Nirākāreti. Not this form. The soul has got a different form. That is described. Keśāgra-śata*-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. We cannot see, at the present moment. So as we cannot see you. I am not seeing you, you are not seeing me... Just like a man's son dies, or father dies. He cries, "Oh, my father is gone, my father is gone." Where is your father gone? Your father is lying on the floor. Why do you say the father is gone? "No, he's gone. He's no more." That means this thing which has gone, he has never seen. He has seen simply this outward body, dress. This is called ignorance. I am not seeing you; still, I am speaking that I see you. So if I cannot see you, the part and parcel of God, how can I see God with these eyes? Therefore śāstra says,

*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



You cannot see God, you cannot see Kṛṣṇa by your, these blunt senses, but if you purify your senses, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. That purification begins from tongue. That purification, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. So by the tongue we can do two things. We can taste foodstuff and we can vibrate sound. So if you engage your tongue for vibrating this transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare/Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, and do not take anything except prasādam of Kṛṣṇa, then your spiritual life immediately begins. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau, svayam eva... Then gradually, as you advance in spiritual life, Kṛṣṇa reveals Himself to you, "Here I am." You cannot see Kṛṣṇa, but by being satisfied with your service, Kṛṣṇa sees you. Just like you cannot see sun at night. But when the sun sees you, you can see the sun and yourself, both. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa sees you, being satisfied with your service, then you can see Kṛṣṇa, you can see yourself and you can see the whole world.



*Now, whatever you are seeing, this is all illusion. You are not seeing, or we are not seeing. Because our senses are blunt to see things as they are. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*One who has got the eyes to see, he does not see that "Here is a learned brāhmaṇa, and here is a dog." He sees both the learned brāhmaṇa and the dog in equal vision. Because he does not see the dress. He sees the spirit soul within the brāhmaṇa and within the dog. That is called brahma*-darśana. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. When one has got that vision, transcendental vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhakti, then the devotional service begins. Not that with blunt eyes and senses one can serve God, devotional service.



*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



*This is the process. So when our senses are engaged in the service of the Lord, sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], when our senses become purified, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate, at that time, the hṛṣīka, the senses are engaged in the service of the Lord. Because Kṛṣṇa is spirit, the Supersoul, He cannot be served by matter. He has to be served with spirit.



*Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. This bhakti is spiritual activity. Because Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā prayacchati. If you offer something Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, I have brought a very palatable dish. You take it." Oh, Kṛṣṇa will not take it. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. He's not exposed to everyone. It is not possible. You cannot serve Kṛṣṇa if you are not a devotee. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. That is the real thing, bhaktyā. Not that "I have brought a nice plate and Kṛṣṇa will accept." Not like that. Kṛṣṇa can accept when you offer something, it doesn't matter what it is, it may be a simple flower, a fruit, a, a small piece of leaf or little water... This is universal. For worshiping Kṛṣṇa, there is no impediment. If you want to worship other demigods, there are so many things required. But for worshiping Kṛṣṇa the poorest man in the world, any part of the world, he can offer his love, his offering to Kṛṣṇa. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26].

*So... So real purpose of this Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu by Rūpa Gosvāmī which we have translated by the name, Nectar of Devotion, the Complete Science, the Complete Science of Bhakti-yoga, this is very important book of understanding how to become purified in devotional service, how to approach Kṛṣṇa, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. These things are described very nicely. And Kṛṣṇa, being Supreme, He's Supersoul, we cannot approach with our material consciousness. Therefore the consciousness has to be changed. Then we can approach Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Unless we change our consciousness... Just like, without being fire, you cannot enter into fire. In the śāstra says, without being Brahman, you cannot approach Brahman. Similarly, without being purified of all material contamination, you cannot approach Kṛṣṇa. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa. How, what kind of hṛṣīka, senses? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. The senses are to be purified. Tat-paratvena. Tat-paratvena means being always attached with Kṛṣṇa. If you simply see Kṛṣṇa with your eyes, then your eyes will be purified and spiritualized. Because you are touching... Just like if you keep yourself always in touch with fire, you become warm. Warm, warm, warmer. If you put one iron rod in the fire, it becomes warm, warmer, warmer, and at last, it becomes red hot. When it is red hot, it is fire. It is not more iron rod. You touch that red hot iron anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, if you keep always in touch with Kṛṣṇa, you become Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇized, and you can appreciate what is Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (end)



730107ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 7, 1973



Pradyumna: (reading:) "Invoking auspiciousness: Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the reservoir of all rasas, or relationships, which are called neutrality, or passive adoration; servitorship; friendship; parenthood; conjugal love; comedy; compassion; fear; chivalry; ghastliness; wonder; and devastation. He is the supreme attractive form, and by His universal and transcendental attractive features, He has captivated all the gopīs, headed by Tārakā, Pālikā, Śyāmā, Lalitā and, ultimately, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Let His Lordship's grace be on us..."



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all rasas. Rasa is a very peculiar word. Rasa, it may be translated into English as "taste," as "mellow," or as "humor." So our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, there is some taste. Without taste, we cannot continue our relationship with anyone. There must be some taste. So these rasas, or tastes, are twelve kinds. Primary rasa is the relationship between inert things and our... Just like I am sitting on this chair. So the comfort I am feeling, that is the rasa, taste. We want very nice cushion, sitting position. So that tasting, that "I am now comfortably seated," this is called śānta*-rasa. Then above the śānta-rasa, there is dāsya-rasa. Dāsya-rasa... Just like my students, my disciples, they want to serve me, and I want to take service from them. This is also an exchange of rasa, a taste. Śānta, dāsya. Similarly, next advanced stage is sakhya-rasa. Sakhya means friendship. Just like one is serving somebody, but if that service is very intimate, then there is the rasa of friendship, dāsa, sakhya-rasa. And when that is advanced... (feedback) (aside:) What is this sound? When that is advanced, it becomes vātsalya-rasa. Vātsalya-rasa means the taste of relationship between parents and the children. These are advanced. Śānta-rasa, dāsya-rasa, sakhya-rasa, and then vātsalya-rasa, parenthood, filial love. And above this, there is mādhurya-rasa. Mādhurya-rasa means the taste between husband and wife, lover and the beloved. That is called mādhurya-rasa. Similarly... These are the primary rasas. (aside:) The draft is coming this side, or...? It is open.



Śyāmasundara: I'm just closing it because the noise from outside is coming in.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Śyāmasundara: Just closing the doors because the wind was blowing through them.



Prabhupāda: No, wind is coming from this side.



Others: No. No, from this side.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



*Indian man: The door is half*-closed.



Indian man (2): Yes, yes. Close it. One of you close it. That's better.



Prabhupāda: Hmm. So our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, there are different rasas. These are the primary rasas. And there are secondary, indirect rasas. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa wants to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is also another rasa. So what are the rasas, indirect rasas? Just read.



Pradyumna: "...which are called neutrality, servitorship..." Oh, indirect. "Comedy, compassion, fear, chivalry..."



Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?



Pradyumna: Uh, comedy.



*Prabhupāda: Comedy, hāsya*-rasa, creating a situation that everyone will laugh. That is also rasa. Hāsya-rasa. Then?



Pradyumna: Compassion.



Prabhupāda: Compassion. Suppose you find some poor man lying on the street. You feel compassionate. That is also another rasa, compassion rasa. Then?



Pradyumna: Fear.



Prabhupāda: Fear. Suppose if you find a tiger or a something ghostly, you become afraid. That is also rasa. Then?



Pradyumna: Chivalry.



Prabhupāda: Chivalry. Suppose you are fighting with an enemy. You are defeating him, you are killing him. That is also another rasa. Then?



Pradyumna: Ghastliness.



Prabhupāda: Ghastliness. That means after killing somebody... Just like a butcher. The butcher is enjoying by killing. Ghastly. Just like the hunter was killing every animal. He was also enjoying some rasa. Then?



Pradyumna: Wonder.



*Prabhupāda: Wonder. You see something which is very wonderful, astonishing, that is also rasa. In this way, according to śāstra, there are twelve rasas*-five primary and seven secondary. But all these rasas are there in Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is called Akhila rasāmṛta-sindhu. Akhila rasāmṛta. You can enjoy, you can have contact with Kṛṣṇa with any of these rasas; therefore He's called Akhila... We have written a small book, Kṛṣṇa, the Reservoir of All Pleasure. Ghastly or wondrous rasas or chivalrous rasas, although they are not exactly like the five primary rasas, conjugal love, paternal affection, friendly love... Just like Bhīṣma. Bhīṣmadeva was enjoying the chivalry rasas when he decided that "This day, I must kill Arjuna. Either Kṛṣṇa will have to break His promise..." Kṛṣṇa promised that He'd not take any weapon in the battle; He should remain neutral. Because both sides, they were relatives. So it is not good to take part partially in one party and neglect other. Of course, it was divided... Kṛṣṇa divided Himself, His soldiers, one side, and Kṛṣṇa, one side. He said, Duryodhana and Arjuna, that "I shall remain neutral, but I am dividing My strength in this way. One side, I am, and one side, My soldiers." So Duryodhana thought that "What shall I do with Kṛṣṇa? Better take His soldiers." So he took the soldiers in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. And Arjuna said that "I want You." Just like the same thing happened in general politics also. When Gandhi started the movement, noncooperation movement, so he selected some very big men of India, big, big lawyers like C. R. Das, Motilal Nehru. So C. R. Das, at that time, about fifty years ago, he was earning about fifty thousand rupees per month by his legal practice. He said that "Gandhiji, you take all my money, but let me practice. Don't ask me to boycott the British court." But that was on the, one of the programs. So Gandhiji said, "No, I don't want your money. I want you." And actually that was very effective. So similarly Arjuna also decided that "I don't want Your soldiers. I want You." So these are different rasas.



So the fact is, the idea is that you can make your relationship with Kṛṣṇa with any kinds of rasas. Because beyond these twelve rasas, there is no other rasa. There are... These twelve rasas is complete: five primary and seven secondary. Direct and indirect. Therefore our Gosvāmīs' instruction is that you establish your relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. Somehow or other, you establish, you fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kaṁsa. He fixed up his mind on Kṛṣṇa how to kill Him. He was always thinking... He was also Kṛṣṇa conscious, that... But he was thinking, "As soon as Kṛṣṇa will take birth, I shall immediately kill Him." And he was anxious, "Whether He is born, whether He's born, whether He's born?" So when his sister, Devakī, was pregnant, he was thinking of the pregnant..., Kṛṣṇa, within the womb, "When He will take birth, when He will take birth, when He will take birth?" That was... That was also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but that kind of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not bhakti. The indirect Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is not bhakti. That is attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That will also give benefit. Just like Kaṁsa and other enemies of Kṛṣṇa, who were killed by Kṛṣṇa, they got immediately salvation, immediately got salvation.

*So the Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Rūpa Gosvāmī teaches that even if you be attached to Kṛṣṇa in adverse condition, in opposite condition, that is also good, because Kṛṣṇa is there. The example can be given in a different way: just like sandalwood. Sandalwood, you rub it, in any way, standing or horizontal, in this way, the pulp will come out and it will give you comfort, it will give you relief. Similarly, you make your contact with Kṛṣṇa ānukūlyena... Especially it is recommended: ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], favorably. That is surrender. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyaṁ vivarjanam. Surrender means to accept Kṛṣṇa favorably in five rasas. You serve Him in śānta-rasa. You serve Him in dāsya-rasa, in sakhya-rasa. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna served Kṛṣṇa in sakhya-rasa, as friend. Sakhyam ātma-nivedanam. There are nine different processes of devotional service:

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*There are nine different processes. So you can adopt either all the nine processes, as Ambarīṣa Mahārāja accepted all the nine processes: Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. So we can do that. Or eight. Or seven. Or six. Or five. Or four. At least one. At least one. Some way or other, become connected with Kṛṣṇa. Just like śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣit. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he simply listened about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. At the last stage of his life, he was given seven days' life, that "After seven days, you'll die." So he took the full opportunity of seven days, and he simply listened to Parīkṣit Mahārāja. That's all. Uh, to Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣid abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he simply narrated about Kṛṣṇa, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is Kṛṣṇa-kathā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is, yāre dekha, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa. This is the mission.



āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



So the Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind that He wants to send gurus all over the world.



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



That is His mission. He wants that "All over the world, as many villages and towns are there, everywhere this, My mission must be spread." And who will do it? That is also, He gave instruction:



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is India's mission. India's mission is that janma sārthaka kari': "Just make your life successful, and spread this knowledge all over the world." This is India's mission. India's mission is not to imitate technology and work like ass day and night. This is not India's business. Indians are not meant for this purpose. Those who have taken birth in Bhāratavarṣa, they are not ordinary human beings. Naturally, they are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Unnaturally they are being forced to be otherwise. Therefore it is misadjustment. It is not taking place. If you, even in this age, in this city, big city, oh, as soon as there is some religious meeting, thousands and lakhs of people gather. Why? They are meant for this purpose. Artificially, they are being withdrawn. "Don't think of Kṛṣṇa. Don't think of religion." Most artificial. Therefore there is fight. There is always fight. Now Andhra is fighting Teliṅga(?). Teliṅga is fighting this way. No peace. India, such a peaceful land. Here, we are killing cows. They are killing animals. You are fighting. You are doing so many sinful activities artificially. This is not our business. Our business is different. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari [Cc. Ādi 9.41]'. Here you have got the advantages to fulfill the mission of life. Janma-sārthaka kari'. Here is Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Vedas. Here is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is Lord Rāmacandra. Here is Vyāsadeva. And we are going to learn technology? How much degraded we have become, just consider. The, our mission should be, first of all, we must assimilate all the knowledge given by all the great saintly persons-Kṛṣṇa and others*-and distribute this knowledge all over the world. And the whole world is also expecting like that. Therefore as soon as the so-called rascal swami goes there, and they immediately gather: "Here is one swami from India. We may get something." But they are cheating. They are cheating and taking money and having illicit sex, and enjoying and coming back. Therefore they could not do anything. But the whole world is waiting for India's culture, India's bhakti, India's spiritual knowledge. Just see the example. Why they have left their fathers' property, their opulence of country, and they are after me? I am a poor man. Only this reason, that they're hankering. And we have got the commodity to deliver to them. This business should be done from India's part. If we want to imitate them, then we create another havoc. That we are doing so. Now we have made secular state, killing state. One cow was attempted to be killed. Mahārāja Parīkṣit immediately took his sword: "Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" And they are ten thousand or forty thousand cows are being killed, and you want to become happy by plan-making? Simply rascaldom. India, you cannot do it. India's business is different. That you have forgotten. We are simply trying. That there is Bengali, nice song: apana dhana vilaye viye viksa mage pare tache (?). We have thrown away our own culture, and we are begging from others, "Give me, sir, this. Give me, sir, this. Give me, sir, this." Most abominable condition. Just try to understand. India... This is the order of Kṛṣṇa, Gaura Kṛṣṇa-Kṛṣṇa's also order that anyone who is preaching this Bhagavad-gītā, na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu kaścit me priya-kṛttamaḥ. "Nobody's dearer than him to Me."



*So this Bhagavad-gītā should be taken as it is. One should assimilate. The Indian people, those who are... As Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. Those who are actually human beings, not cats and dogs, for them, this is the duty. The duty is to assimilate. What is our asset? Our asset is spiritual asset. Now we are giving up. Bhagavad-gītā's not allowed to be instructed in the schools and colleges. How much degraded we are! And we are becoming very proud of our advancement of civilization, material assets. This is simply... Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These are described as māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. There is school, college, not only in India, everywhere, all over the world, they... Actually there is no jñāna, knowledge. They're all fools and rascals. We can clearly declare-it may not be very palatable*-the whole world is full of rascals and rogues. That's all. How we can say? Now we can say it from the text of the Bhagavad-gītā. What is that?

na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ

duṣkṛtina narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsurī*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



Na māṁ prapadyante. As soon as we see a person who is not a surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa or God, then what he is? He is duṣkṛtinaḥ, full of sinful activities. Anyone who does not surrender to God, or Kṛṣṇa, he is, what he is? He must be either of these groups: duṣkṛtinaḥ, always sinful; mūḍha, rascal, asses; na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15], lowest of the mankind; *and māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā. If you say, "There are so many educated persons. They're not surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, or God. They're godless. So they have no value?" No, no value, actually, because their actual knowledge has been taken away. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Why? Āsurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they're following the philosophy of atheism. That's all. This is the root cause.



*So Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, this Nectar of Devotion, is giving us the hint that after all, you want to enjoy life. That is your purpose. Actually, everyone's mission is that. But you cannot enjoy. As soon as there is question of enjoyment, there must be other party. You cannot enjoy alone. That is not possible. There must be other party. So you enjoy your life with Kṛṣṇa-either in sakhya-rasa or dāsya-rasa or vātsalya-rasa or ghastly rasa. Just like Bhīṣmadeva: he enjoyed Kṛṣṇa's association by ghastly rasa. As I was going to explain, that he decided to kill Arjuna with two propositions that "Either this day I shall kill Arjuna, or Kṛṣṇa has to break His promise and, to save His friend." That was his promise. So when Bhīṣmadeva was trying to kill Arjuna, his ratha, his chariot became shattered and Arjuna fell down. So when Kṛṣṇa saw, "Now Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna is going to die," so immediately He took one wheel of the chariot and immediately appeared before Bhīṣmadeva: "Stop fighting; *otherwise, I am going to kill you." So immediately Bhīṣmadeva gave up his weapons. So this is not breaking His promise, but this is another rasa, that Kṛṣṇa wanted to show Bhīṣma that "You wanted to break My promise. Now see, I am..., I have broken My promise. Are you all right?" (laughter) He wanted to please His devotee. That's all. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa could kill many millions of Bhīṣma, standing there only. But He came before him that "You wanted to break My promise. Now you see, I have broken My promise. But I have not taken My disc. Then this wheel I have taken. Please stop." So immediately he gave up his weapons. But when Bhīṣma was piercing the body of Kṛṣṇa with arrows, he was coming..., he did not spare even Kṛṣṇa, his charioteer. He pierced the body of Arjuna as well as Kṛṣṇa. And there was bleeding. So Bhīṣma, at the last stage of his life, in sarasvajya (?), he was thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how He was coming forward before Bhīṣma in bleeding condition. This is ghastly rasa. This is ghastly rasa. We want to see Kṛṣṇa dancing, or we want to offer Kṛṣṇa flower*-this is also one rasa. But Bhīṣma was also seeing Kṛṣṇa in another rasa. You'll find the Bhīṣma's prayers to Kṛṣṇa in his sarasvajya state while he was lying on the bed of arrows; in Bhāgavata, you'll find. So this is also another rasa. These things have been explained by great commentators, how this is also very pleasing to Kṛṣṇa. Bhīṣma was piercing His body; the blood was coming out. Still how it is pleasing? So that has been explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī that when a lover is kissing and biting, that is also pleasure. The biting also pleas... Although blood is coming out, that biting is also plea..., very pleasing. This has been explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī. These things are possible.

So try to establish your relationship with Kṛṣṇa in any way, and that is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī. So any way you es... Because you cannot enjoy life beyond these twelve rasas. The, all the twelve rasas you can find. Raso vai saḥ. This is the Vedic instruction. Raso vai saḥ labdhānandi bhagavān. So you just contact the Supreme Personality of Godhead in exchange of any kind of rasa; you'll feel pleasure. That is only... You want pleasure. You want pleasure. The whole life, everyone is working so hard. Why? He wants some pleasure of life. But that pleasure you cannot have like dacoit, damn dogs and hogs. Don't try to take pleasure in the material world. Just as the hog is also enjoying pleasure by eating stool, that kind of pleasure will not make happy. It may be happy for the particular body, but actually it is not happiness. If you want happiness, then you have to establish your relationship with Kṛṣṇa in, by any of these rasas. Then you'll be, feel happy. Therefore Bhāgavata instructs,

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed

*sattva yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



This is the instruction, that "Don't try to get happiness like the dogs and hogs." That is not actual happiness. That will simply entangle you. Just like I am now human being. Due to my material rasas, because I want to enjoy material rasas... Because enjoyment means sense gratification.



indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir...

[Bg. 3.42]



*So we are trying to enjoy life first of all gross enjoyment with these material senses, and subtle enjoyment with mind, intelligence. But you have to go, transcend. Raso vai saḥ. If you are want real happiness, then, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sukham ātyantikam yat tad atīndriya grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. Atīndriya. We have to purify these indriyas, the senses and... That is called tapasya. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. By tapasya, by taking little austerity, by tapasya... Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed. At present, our sattva, this existence, this is not śuddha. This is not pure. Therefore we have to undergo the tribulation of material nature. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. But we don't want this. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. We don't want. Although we are trying to be happy, but we do not know how to become, I mean to say, free from the material contamination. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. They are trying to open hospitals. Just like one Sindhi gentleman, he has contributed about five of seven crores of rupees to start a hospital here. That gentleman, not, some, his relative, came to see me. So I said that "However magnificent hospital you may start, you cannot stop death. That is not possible. That is not possible." You may try in your own way. The whole struggle is now to mitigate our suffering condition. But the suffering condition is continuing. You... You may open nice hospital, but you cannot stop death. That is not possible. You may invent nice medicine, up-to-date, scientific medicine, but you cannot stop the disease. They do not see this. You can invent so many contraceptive methods-still you cannot stop, I mean to say, life. Janma, birth, birth control, there are so many medicines. But where is the stoppage of birth? The population is increasing. Neither you can stop death, neither you can stop birth, neither you can stop old age. There are so many rascal Gods*-they are becoming old. Why they becoming old? God never becomes old. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. God is always just like young boy. Why these rascal Gods becoming older? So janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Jarā means old age, and vyādhi means disease. Birth, death. You cannot stop.



*So if you want real happiness, then you have to take the real method. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a bluff. It is most scientific. You are... Your aim of life is how to become happy, but you do not know how to become happy. You are under the illusion. You are thinking that "This thing will give me happiness. That thing will give me happiness." No. And what is that happiness? Happiness, that is explained here: in twelve rasas. So you accept these twelve rasas in exchange of your affairs with Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. You may take... You become even enemy of Kṛṣṇa, just like Kaṁsa. If you do not like to become friend of Kṛṣṇa, then you become enemy of Kṛṣṇa. If you like... Because you cannot go beyond these twelve rasas. Still. Kāmād bhayād dveśyād lobhāt, it is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. The gopīs approached Kṛṣṇa actually by lusty desires, the kāmāt. Bhayāt: and Kaṁsa was thinking of Kṛṣṇa out of fearfulness. Dveśyāt: the Śiśupāla, he was always envious of Kṛṣṇa. He was also thinking of... Kāmād bhayād dveśyād lobhāt. Some way or other, be in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and you'll be happy. You'll be happy, this life and next life.

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*This is the simplest point. You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. If you do not foolishly misinterpret Bhagavad*-gītā, it is very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa, very easy. There is no difficulty. But we are rascals. We misinterpret: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa means this. Kṛṣṇa does not mean this." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Kṛṣṇa means... Somebody, "black spot." What is that?



Śyāmasundara: "The dark unknown."



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Śyāmasundara: "The dark unknown within us."



*Prabhupāda: Now somebody, some big sannyāsī, very famous in your country, he's explaining Kṛṣṇa, "Something dark within us which we do not know, that is Kṛṣṇa." That is explanation of Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa is not dvi*-bhuja-muralīdhara-śyāmasundara; *He's something dark which you do not know." This is the explanation of big scholar, big swami. So in this way, we are being misled. Take it, Kṛṣṇa, as He is. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme." Accept it, supreme. Actually He's supreme. Who can be bet..., more supreme than Kṛṣṇa? Prove it by śāstra, by history, by incidences, by action*-everything. By votes also. If there are so many rascal Gods, but if you take vote, still in this age, the vote for Kṛṣṇa will be greater. Still. Although we are so fallen. So how we can escape Kṛṣṇa? And śāstra says, confirm, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. If you want the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara means controller. So everyone is controller, but nobody's supreme controller. That is not possible. Even the so-called Gods, they also, when there is some toothache, they go to the doctor. They cannot control even toothache. So these kind of Gods will not help you. Take to Kṛṣṇa. Take to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, the method: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You take it, practice it, and see how your life becomes successful and how you become happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



*Thank you very much. [break] ...There are five kinds of mukti: sāyujya*-mukti, sārūpya-mukti, sālokya-mukti, sāmīpya-mukti. So sāyujya-mukti, the jñānīs, the nirbheda brahmaṇusandhana, they want to become one with the Supreme. You know this. Monism. That is called sāyujya-mukti. So the enemies of Kṛṣṇa, they get sāyujya-mukti. Or, in other words, the sāyujya-mukti is given to the enemies, not to the friends. But the, there are other muktis. Just like this, take example: darkness. Mukti means you come out from darkness to the light. That is real mukti. Now we are in the material world. This is darkness, tama. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. This is the Vedic interest. "Don't remain in the darkness." That means in the material world. "Come to the world of light," jyoti, brahmajyoti. So take this example. Suppose you are in a dark room and I take you to the sunlight, come out. So this is also light. And the sun globe, that is also light. And the sun-god, that is also light. But this light, sunshine light, or sunshine temperature, is not as good as the temperature in the sun globe. Similarly, if you make progress...

*So sāyujya*-mukti is also liberation. Sāyujya-mukti, to become one, Brahman, brahmajyoti. Brahmajyoti means assembly of small spiritual sparks. Just like the sun, sunshine, a combination of shining molecular parts; *similarly, brahmajyoti, sāyujya*-mukti means you become... Because you are spiritual spark. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. So you are also spark, part and parcel of God; *therefore you assemble with the other sparks, brahmajyoti. Those who have no information of the other spiritual planets, Vaikuṇṭha or Goloka Vṛndāvana, they think to become one with the spiritual sparks, that is ultimate. For them, this is the place, sāyujya*-mukti. But this sāyujya-mukti, you cannot stay here. Either by further progress you have to go to the spiritual planets, otherwise you'll fall down. Just like the same example. Suppose you have got some aeroplane and you go very high in the sunshine. So what is the benefit? If you do not get shelter in the moon planet or in another planet, then you have to come back again. Similarly, sāyujya-mukti means you become one of the spiritual sparks, but, because you're part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, you are sat-cid-ānanda, sat, cit... There are..., you have got three things within you. This mukti, sāyujya-mukti, is the sat only, eternity. You can eternally remain, but you have got other two things to fulfill: that cit and ānanda.

*So, so if you want to fulfill all the pleasures of life, sat*-cit-ānanda, then you have to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. The śāstra says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛtaḥ-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. One who has no information of Kṛṣṇa, one who does not take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he may take the sāyujya-mukti after severe penances and austerities, but again he'll fall down, because he wants ānanda. Simply impersonal, without any varieties, he cannot have ānanda. That spiritual variety is available in the Kṛṣṇaloka, in the Vaikuṇṭha. So for want of spiritual variety, you'll again like to come into the material variety. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Ye 'nye ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas [SB 10.2.32]. So this kind of mukti is not first-class mukti. Therefore Vaiṣṇavas, they do not want it. Vaiṣṇava does not want any kind of mukti. This Vaiṣṇava wants simply to remain in the service of the Lord. They don't aspire for any kind of mukti. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. So this mukti the sāyujya-mukti, means to become one with the Supreme, it not very safe, because there is, there is want of ānanda and knowledge. Simply to become one, that will not help. Therefore he is actually, constitutionally, a small particle of sac-cid-ānanda. So for want of ānanda, he comes again. Thus we have seen many sannyāsīs, they give up this world as brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but they do not get any benefit out of it. Therefore they come down again to open hospitals and schools and philanthropic work. They fall down. Now, if it is brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, if jagat is mithyā, then why you are coming again to open hospitals? It is mithyā. But brahma satya. If you have realized Brahman, you are truth. Then why truth is coming to untruth? Because they could not get any pleasure. They want pleasure. Simply sitting down, that "I am now Brahman, Brahman," that will not help. You must act as Brahman. You must get pleasure acting as Brahman. Then there will be ānanda. Otherwise, it is not possible. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. These are the śāstric injunctions.

Indian man: Swamijī, you write... [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...but our proposition is that you cannot sacrifice Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply you become attached with modern things. That is our proposition. We don't... Our, our proposition is that you do modern things. That is the instruction of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam.



ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



Modern things, you do, but you try to see whether you have become perfect by doing these modern things. Now you are engaged in modern things, and instead of being perfect, next life you get a body of hog and dog, then what is the benefit of these modern things? (end)





721027ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 27, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading) "Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda and of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda by whose inspiration I have been engaged in the matter of compiling this summary study of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. This is the sublime science of devotional service as propounded by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who appeared 500 years ago in West Bengal, India, to propagate the movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī begins his great book by offering his respectful obeisances unto Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī who is his elder brother and spiritual master, and he prays that Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu may be very pleasing to him."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "He further prays..."



*Prabhupāda: Our... Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī wanted to please Sanātana Gosvāmī. Our duty is to please the superior, not the public. We are giving service to the public according to the direction of the superior authority. We do not manufacture any program of service. That is not our business. Whatever is ordered by the... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's Kṛṣṇa Himself. Still, He was following the authorities. Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality, He was also referring to the Brahma*-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva viniścitam. So this is the way, that any bona fide spiritual propaganda must be following the footsteps of previous authority.



*At the present moment, it has become a fashion to manufacture some idea. But that is not the Vedic way. Vedic way is to receive the message through paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Not to deviate the paramparā. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was taught by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu continually for two months personally in Benares, Vārāṇasī. Therefore he's our authority. The Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, they follow the principles of Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. In that Hari-bhakti-vilāsa Sanātana Gosvāmī recommends, tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. Dīkṣā-vidhāna, by the process of dīkṣā, a, any human being can be elevated to the position of a bona fide brāhmaṇa. Vidhānena. Vidhāna. The very word is used, vidhāna. Vidhāna means bona fide process. Tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena. There is another good suggestion: yathā kañcanatāṁ yāti kaṁsa-rasa-vidhānena. Rasa. Rasa means ... Another meaning of rasa means... What is that? What is called? I forget. The metal...?

Devotee: Bell metal.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Pradyumna: Bell metal?



Prabhupāda: No, not bell... That liquid metal.



Devotees: Mercury.



Prabhupāda: Mercury. Mercury. Hydrox... What is called? Hydroid?



Devotee: Quicksilver?



*Prabhupāda: No. Another name is hydrogeroid. That is the chemical name of mercury. You know it. Hydrogeroid? Yes. Unguentum hydrogeroid. Yes. That is another name of the mercury. Hydrogeroid. So in Sanskrit it is called rasa. Rasāyana. From mercury, rasa, the chemistry is called rasāyana-śāstra. Actually, rasāyana-śāstra, chemical composition, begins from mercury and sulphur. That is the beginning of chemical composition. So rasa*-vidhānena, by chemical interaction of sulphur and mercury, if you can add tin and copper, then it becomes gold. You can manufacture gold, provided you know the process, how to mix up copper, tin and mercury. With via media of sulphuric acid. Sulphuric acid is the mother of chemicals. Without sulphur, you cannot make any chemical composition. Therefore all chemical composition are called sulphate, sulphite, like that. So Sanātana Gosvāmī gives this idea of chemical composition. It appears that he knew how to work with chemicals.



yathā kañcanatāṁ yāti

*kaṁsa*-rasa-vidhānataḥ

*tathā dīkṣā*-vidhānena

dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām



*So we are trying to follow Sanātana Gosvāmī. By dīkṣā*-vidhānena, by initiating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the dīkṣā-vidhāna is performed according, according to Pāñcarātrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the śūdras, there was no initiation. A brāhmaṇa kṣatriya, vaiśya. So these are the Vedic process. So in the Kali-yuga, because it is to be understood that everyone is a śūdra, therefore Vaidika-vidhāna cannot be applied. Vaidika-vidhāna requires that one must be born by a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Then he's eligible for being initiated. But in the Kali-yuga, that is not possible. Therefore the Pāñcarātriki-vidhi is accepted. Nārada-Pañcarātra. Tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena. This dīkṣā-vidhāna, recommended by Sanātana Gosvāmī, means Pāñcarātriki-vidhi. Now Rūpa Gosvāmī says in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu,



*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātriki*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikantiki harer bhaktir

utpatayaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*Without undergoing the process of śruti*-means Vedas-smṛti, the Purāṇas, and other corollary literatures, Bhagavad-gītā, Mahābhārata, Smṛti, Manu-smṛti, the laws given by Manu, Parāśara... So Hari-bhakti, devotional service to the Lord, must be approved by Vedas, Purāṇas. Pāñcarātriki-vidhi. Otherwise, any show of devotional service is simply disturbance. Anyone can manufacture. And it is being supported by some very big missionary activities: yata mata tata pata. You can manufacture your way of religious principles. But that is not Vedic way. Vedic way is evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. Although we are initiating people from low-grade society, still, following the principles of Pāñcarātriki-vidhi, injunction of the Gosvāmīs. Therefore it is bona fide. Bhāgavata-vidhi, Pāñcarātriki-vidhi, they are bona fide vidhi. So Sanātana Gosvāmī... Rūpa Gosvāmī, first offers his respectful obeisances to his elder brother, Sanātana Gosvāmī, because Rūpa Gosvāmī accepted him as spiritual master. And he was initiated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Sanātana Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī also. So he offers his respectful obeisances to Sanātana Gosvāmī. Go on.



Pradyumna: "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure in the service of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa."



Prabhupāda: Yes. "Ocean of nectar." The Māyāvādī philosophers, generally they give this example that the, all the rivers, they flow down to the ocean. This example is generally given that when the river mixes with the ocean, it doesn't matter which course it is following. After all, it is coming to the ocean, merging into the ocean. So that is ultimate liberation. But this analogy... Analogy, if you give some analogy, you must consider all the similar points. That is the way of analogy. The more you have got similar points, then the analogy is perfect. So the rivers merging into the ocean. Then you must take further consideration that the superficial water mixing with the ocean is again evaporated. The water is evaporated by scorching heat of the sun. Just like now we see cloud in the sky. This is nothing but evaporated water from the sea. So the water which merged into the water and into the ocean of the, water of the ocean, now it is evaporated in the sky. And again it will fall down. And then again glide to the ocean. So this is called avagamana, coming and going, coming and going. But our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is not to merge into the water, but keep your identity and go deep into the water. So that you may not be evaporated. The fish and the aquatic animals within the water, they are not evaporated. They are not going to become cloud and again fall down. Therefore Sanātana, Rūpa Gosvāmī says, "He further prays that by residing in the ocean of nectar he may always feel transcendental pleasure..."



*Our philosophy is go back to home, back to Godhead. Not in the spiritual sky. Paravyoma. Spiritual sky, there is chance of falling down. Why chance? It is sure. Those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, the śāstra says that they again fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. They, jñānīs, they undergo severe austerities, penances to merge into the existence of impersonal Brahman. But they fall down again. They fall down again because they have no shelter. Anādhṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. As, as in this sky, there are many planets. You can go with high speed to the Moon planet or Venus planet. But if you have no shelter to stay there, you come back again on this earthly planet, that is practically experienced, similarly you may merge into the Brahman effulgence. Just like our plane goes very high and, at a certain point, we see it is invisible, merged. Actually, it is not merged. Our eyes cannot see any more. They take it as merge.

Therefore Jīva Gosvāmī, this merging principle, he has explained: just like a green bird enters into a green tree, it, it appears that the bird is no more existing. To the imperfect eyes. But the bird is existing. We cannot see. Both the tree and the bird being green, we see it has merged. Because the spiritual sky and the spiritual living being, a small, it merges it does not merge. It is there. The individuality is there. And because this individuality, fragment of the Supreme Brahman, is eternal, is eternal, sanātana... It is not that spirit can be cut into pieces. That is not possible. So we are fragmental parts. That means eternally we are so, individual. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We are one of the nityas. There are innumerable nityas and cetanaś, the living entities, part and parcel of the supreme living entity, Kṛṣṇa. They're all individual.

*Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, "My dear Arjuna, do not think that I, you, or all these soldiers and kings who have assembled in this battlefield, they were not existing in the past. They were. And they are existing at present. And similarly they will exist in the future." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So where is the question of merging? And loss of individuality? The individuality remains. It remained in the past. It is, at the present moment, it is continuing. And in the future also, they will remain, the same way. This is clearly explained in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. So merging does not mean, always, that losing one's individuality. The individuality's there. Therefore the theory of merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman is to stay there for some time, again fall down. Just like the same example that the water of the rivers, they merge into the ocean, but again it is evaporated, in the sky, and it falls. Again goes through the river, merges. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is going on. One mani..., once manifested, and again merging. This is going on.

*So our philosophy is that once going into the ocean, no more coming back. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. That is our philosophy. If we once go in the spiritual world, we do not like to come back. We stay with Kṛṣṇa and dance with Him, or play with Him, or serve with, serve Him as tree, as plant, as water, as cows, as land, as cowherd boys, as father, mother, or as gopīs. This is our philosophy. Once we go to Kṛṣṇa, we live forever with Him in either of these capacities. Let me live at Vṛndāvana in any capacity. It doesn't matter. But live there. Therefore he says that "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel eternally continually, without any cessation..." Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). To remain ānadamaya. That is the principle of Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Let us offer our respectful obeisances to all the great devotees and ācāryas or holy teachers, who are compared with sharks in the great ocean of nectar and who do not care for the various rivers of liberation. Impersonalists are very fond of merging into the supreme, like rivers that come down and merge into the ocean. The ocean can be compared with liberation and the rivers with all the different paths of liberation. The impersonalists are dwelling in the river water, which eventually comes to mix with the ocean. They have no information, however, that within the ocean, as within the rivers, there are innumerable aquatic living entities. The sharks who dwell in the ocean do not care for the rivers which are gliding down into it."



Prabhupāda: Yes. The shark, big fish, shark, big body, they have no place to come into the river, come back. There is no place. Big crocodile, big sharks, they do not come to the river. They constantly remain in the ocean. Go on. Yes.



*Pradyumna: "The devotees eternally live in the ocean of devotional service, and they do not care for the rivers. In other words, those who are pure devotees always remain in the ocean of transcendental loving service to the Lord and have no business with the other processes which are compared to the rivers that only gradually come to the ocean. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī prays to his spiritual master Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī for the protection of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, the ocean of the pure nectar of devotional service, from the argumentative logicians who unnecessarily meddle in the science of service to the Lord. He compares their arguments and logic to volcanic eruptions in the midst of the ocean."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Simply by arguments, logic, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vedic injunction. Tarko apratiṣṭho. You cannot establish the truth by simple logic and arguments. You may be very great logician, but somebody may come who is greater logician than you, and he defeats you. That is going on. Tarko apratiṣṭha śrutayo vibhinnām. Now, if you read the *Vedas*, you'll find some contradiction. Not contradiction. But to the neophyte, it appears to be contradiction. Just like we have cited the example that animal stool is impure, but cow dung is pure. So by logic you can say that "Cow dung is also the stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" But in *Vedas* you'll find such things. Therefore by simple studying, without surrendering yourself to the spiritual master, you'll find all these contradictions and you'll be bewildered. Śrutayo vibhinnā. They are not vibhinnā. But to our limited knowledge, sometimes they appear as vibhinnam, different. Śrutayo vibhinnaṁ nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And you won't find a philosopher who does not agree, who does not disagree with our philosophers.



*Therefore dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footsteps of great ācāryas. That is the way. These mahājanas are described in the śāstra like Lord Brahma, Lord Śiva, svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ kumāro manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. They are all mentioned. So you follow any one of these great personalities, Brahmā... Brahmā is the greatest personality within this universe, and he has got his sampradāya which is known as Brahma*-sampradāya. Similarly Lord Śiva has also a sampradāya which is called Rudra-sampradāya. Similarly, Nārada-Pañcarātra, Kumāra-sampradāya. So follow the sampradāya. Sampradāya vihīnā te mantrās te viphalaṁ matāḥ. If you do not follow any bona fide sampradāya, then your path of spiritual advancement will be baffled. You will simply waste your time. Viphalaṁ matāḥ. So we should follow the footsteps of great ācāryas. Then our progress is positive. There is no fear.

*So to take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī's described, describing herewith that he wants to take shelter of the ocean, deep into the ocean, and he doesn't care for the rivers. And the, what is called? Bharavagni (?)? There is some whirling pool in the water. That is compared with the arguments. Sometimes these logicians, they create argumental calamity in the process of devotional service. But Rūpa Gosvāmī recommends that we should not be deviated by the arguments, karmīs, jñānīs and yogis. Let them do their own business. We do not care for them. We give them respect as far as possible, but we don't, don't accept the path of karma*-jñāna-yoga. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. We should not be deviated by the process of karma-jñāna-yoga. That is pure devotional service, śuddha-bhakti. Śuddha-bhakti. We should stay. We should fix up in śuddha-bhakti path. That is the recommendation of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the midst of the ocean such volcanic eruptions can do very little harm. Similarly, those who are against devotional service to the Lord and who put forward many philosophical theses about the ultimate transcendental realization cannot disturb this great ocean of devotional service."



Prabhupāda: Go on.



*Pradyumna: "The author of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, very humbly submits that he is just trying to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, although he humbly thinks himself unfit for this work. That should be the attitude of all preachers of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, following in the footsteps of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. We should never think of ourselves as great preachers, but should always consider that we are simply instrumental to the previous ācāryas, and simply by following in their footsteps, we may be able to do something for the benefit of suffering humanity."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sevi. Our main business is..., (uproar in background, sounds like monkey attacked audience) (pause) Hut! Hut! (laughter, applause) So our main business is to serve the ācāryas. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means why..., we are trying to serve the ācāryas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His direct disciples, the Ṣaḍ-gosvāmīs, and their disciples. Rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti. That is required.



*tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa

janame janame mora ei abhilāsa



*So this society is attempting to create a society of devotees all over the world, without any discrimination of caste, creed, color. One must be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One must know the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he can preach to others. Sei guru haya. That is our purpose.



*People may not misunderstand our propagation that we are proselytizing some persons to Hinduism. Yesterday one so*-called jñānī came to me, and he challenged me that "Swamijī, formerly the Christians used to convert the Hindus and the Muhammadans used to convert the Hindus into Muhammadanism or Christianism. Now you are converting the Christians into Hinduism. Then where is the difference between their activities and your activities?" So this fool does not know this is not making a person from Christian to Hindu. This is not the process. We are not interested. I never said in any meeting in the Western countries that "Hindu religion is better than your Christian religion. You give up your Christian religion and come to Hindu religion." No, that was not my propaganda. There are many old students here present. They may remember. I never made propaganda. Rather when they inquired one can attain perfection by following Christian principles, I said yes. So our propaganda is not to proselytize people from Christian to Hinduism. Our propaganda is to make everyone know this fact, that everyone is eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is our propaganda. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is our propaganda. We are trying to convince people that "Your original position is servant of Kṛṣṇa. You have now forgotten that. You revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you'll become happy." That is our propaganda.

*Do not misunderstand that we are trying to spread Hinduism. Hinduism is a fictitious term. Because there is no fixed*-up conclusion. Somebody's accepting this, somebody... Even the Jains and the Sikhs and many other sub-religions, they are also ruled by the Hindu rules, Hindu law. So actually this word Hindu is given by the Muhammadans. We don't find this word in the Vedic literature, Hindu. It is later, I mean to say, prakṛta. Or in Bhagavad-gītā you won't find the word Hindu. Or in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Or any other Vedic literature. This is the convention of latest age. Actually, we, the followers or Vedic principles, our system is varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas and four āśramas. This is, this can be applicable. But varṇāśrama-dharma is applicable in any, in anywhere. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The creation of God... Just like sun. Sun is creation of God. Sun is visible everywhere. Not that something American sun and something Indian sun. No. The sun is the same. Similarly, cātur-varṇyaṁ, the four principles of division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra, they are everywhere. It is not the monopoly of India.

Anywhere there are intelligent class of men, God conscious men, they are called brāhmaṇas. Anywhere who are prepared for the right cause, administrator, kṣatriyas. Anywhere who are interested in business, trade, agriculture, they are called vaiśyas. And anywhere who are simply satisfied by serving others, he's called śūdra. So our principle is not to proselytize from Christian to Hindu or Muhammadan to Hindu. We are teaching simply how to revive his own constitutional position to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So it is applicable anywhere and everywhere. It is not that it is monopoly of India or for the Hindus. No. And actually it is being accepted, practically. In all countries. Even from all religious sect. In our Society there are boys and girls, they are coming from Christian group, Jews group, Muhammadan group, but when they come here, all of them become the servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



730108ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 8, 1973



*Pradyumna: ...and of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, by whose inspiration I have been engaged in the matter of compiling this summary study of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. This is the sublime science of devotional service as propounded by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who appeared five hundred years ago in West Bengal, India to propagate the movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī begins his great book by offering his respectful obeisances unto Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī who is his elder brother and spiritual master, and he prays that Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu may be very pleasing to him. He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar, he may always feel transcendental pleasure in the service of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: So, Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī is first offering his respect, obeisances to Sanātana Gosvāmī who is his elder brother, at the same time, guru. So we offer our respect in that way, vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. That is the way. We cannot jump over the highest authority directly. That is not possible. That is not the etiquette or rules, regulations we have to go. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. So He presents Himself as the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. So in order to become Kṛṣṇa's servant, we have to become the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. So, my Guru Mahārāja is servant of Kṛṣṇa, his guru, his guru is servant of Kṛṣṇa, his guru is servant of Kṛṣṇa. I am also servant of Kṛṣṇa, but I have to approach through the other servants, not directly. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa will not accept that service.



*If one disrespect the paramparā system, then he'll not be accepted by Kṛṣṇa. Just like... Śrīdhara Swami, Śrīdhara Swami wrote commentary on Bhagavad*-gītā..., Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and other ācāryas also, they wrote. So we must follow the principle. The Subodhinī-ṭīkā was made by Vallabhācārya, but because he presented himself more than Śrīdhara Swami to Caitanya Mahāprabhu... He requested Caitanya Mahāprabhu to read his comment on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam when He was at Purī. But he was little proud of his nice commentary, that he said "It is better than Śrīdhara Swami." So that was not tolerated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and He did not hear that Subodhinī-ṭīkā. He remarked, svami jīva nahi mane (indistinct). So this is not the way. We cannot approach Kṛṣṇa directly. We must go through the paramparā system, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva gopālakau.

So Narottama das Ṭhākura also says that

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala*-pīriti



*In order to understand the transcendental loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, one has to go through the teachings of the Gosvāmīs, rūpa raghunātha*-pade hoibe ākuti. This is the way. So Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī and all the six Gosvāmīs, they developed this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by sitting together in Vṛndāvana. And not only in Vṛndāvana, in that very particular place, Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, where we have got a little space. That you have seen, Rūpa Gosvāmī's tomb, that space. All the six Gosvāmīs, they used to sit down and discuss Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī was reading, and all the other Gosvāmīs, Rūpa, Sanātana, they were hearing, and Jīva Gosvāmī was writing comment. That is the comment of Kṛṣṇa-sandarbha. So that place in Vṛndāvana, Rādhā Dāmodara Temple, is very sacred place. So they were practicing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness,



*kṛṣṇot*-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*They were practicing to teach us, āpani ācari' prabhu jīvere śikhāya. Simply teaching will not do unless we practice. That is very important thing, practice, practical life. Simply quoting verses, like parrot, will not be very much beneficial. One must apply, jñānam vijñāna*-sahitam. Jñāna means to know the thing, and vijñāna means to apply the things in practical life. Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitam. So we must know the vijñāna, how practically. That is taught by the Gosvāmīs, kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana, always chanting the glories of Kṛṣṇa. Kīrtana, gāna, nartana, nartana means dancing. Dancing is very good. The more you dance, the more you become light; *means the burden of material contamination becomes reduced. Dancing is so nice. Even if you don't feel ecstasy, if you dance by force, that will also help us. Kṛṣṇot*-kīrtana-gāna-nartanau-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. By dancing dancing, we shall develop our dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love for Kṛṣṇa. This is a nice process. Kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. Then you will merge into the ocean of love for Kṛṣṇa. So this is the highest stage of ecstasy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always chanting Kṛṣṇa's name, dancing in ecstasy, and to be merged in the ocean of love for Kṛṣṇa. These are the perfection.



*Dhīrādhīra jana*-priyau, in this way we shall become friendly to every people, dhīrādhīra. There are two classes of men. Dhīra, sober, and other class, rogue. So both of them will be pleased by kṛṣṇot-kīrtana. You have practical experience. When there is kṛṣṇa-kīrtana, people, all classes of people, become very much pleased, and they join. As soon as your kīrtana will be pure saṅkīrtana, not artificial, not professional... There are many professional dancer. That will not attract. But, even if you do not know the art of dancing, if you simply dance in ecstasy for Kṛṣṇa's love, that will be appreciated by everyone. That will be appreciated by everyone. Kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. These are the art. One does not require to become a Vedāntist. Simply if one chants Kṛṣṇa's name, holy name, and in ecstasy dances, he's more than a Vedāntist. Actually vedānti means one who knows the ultimate knowledge, veda. Veda means knowledge. And anta means ultimate, vedānta. Then what is that ultimate knowledge? Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is ultimate knowledge. So one who has understood Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's love, he's dancing, then what more vedānta can do? That is the first class realization of vedānta. Kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. So we should always offer our respect to the Gosvāmīs, ei chay gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says. Tāṅ-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās. We should be so humble, respectful to the Gosvāmīs. Not only these Gosvāmīs, anyone who is serving the Gosvāmīs. The Gosvāmīs has also the mission.

*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*That is our prayer. Śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭam, Lord Caitanya's desire. What was His desire? His desire was,



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



That is His desire. Not to sit down in a secluded place, and to get cheap popularity as a petty meditator. Even if he's meditator, but that is for himself, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that, "Go, everyone, in every village, in every town, and preach this gospel,



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grama

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*This is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mano-'bhīṣṭam, that is His desire. So śrī*-caitanya mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale. Rūpa Gosvāmī, they established śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭam. Rūpa Gosvāmī was instructed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally, ten days in Allahabad. Similarly, it was instructed regularly for two months to Sanātana Gosvāmī in Benares, because He wanted Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī to preach His mission, mano-'bhīṣṭam. Therefore our prayer is, we offer this prayer,



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*If you want to preach the gospel of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then the personalities who established, by writing these books, Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, Vidagdha-mādhava, so many books they have written. So we must go through them, must try to understand. Then we can understand what is the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Caitanya-bhāgavata, Caitanya-maṅgala, there are so many. Caitanya-candradoya by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. So many devotees, they have given us so many high literatures, we should consult. Therefore the prayer is, śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale.



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



Persons who established the desire of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Padāntikam, when they will give shelter on their lotus feet. That means Gosvāmīs.



*tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa

janame janame ei mor abhilāsa



*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tādera caraṇa*-sevi, let us serve the lotus feet of the Gosvāmīs, and live within the association of devotees. Otherwise we may fall down. Bhakta-sane-vāsa, one must live with the devotees.



*satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya*-saṁvido

*bhavanti hṛt*-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ

*taj*-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani

śraddhā ratir bhaktir anukramiṣyati

[SB 3.25.25]



*Satāṁ prasaṅgān. We should have discourses of Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or any literature about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mama vīrya-saṁvido those words are vīrya-saṁvido. Vīrya means potency. Just like, if a man is potent, as soon as there is sex, he gives birth, potency. Similarly, we should associate with devotees who have got potency, mama vīrya-saṁvido, bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Otherwise we may go on hearing for three millions of years, we are in the same position. But the words must be from the potent person. Potent person. Then it will act very quickly. Therefore Kṛṣṇa Himself advises, satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido [SB 3.25.25]. Satām, devotees. That same thing Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says. Tādera caraṇa, the desire should be, how to serve the Gosvāmīs, how to serve Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That should be the desire, that this desire can be fulfilled when we are living with the devotees. Therefore we have got this society, Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. Anyone who will live in this society, naturally he will develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very quickly, very easily. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. Kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ is very potential. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī advises,



*avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ

*pūtaṁ hari*-kathāmṛtam

śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam...



*Avaiṣṇava-mukhod, this professional, who is not actually Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means whose life is dedicated for service of the Lord Viṣṇu. He is Vaiṣṇava, viṣṇu asya devatā iti vaiṣṇavaḥ. So one who has taken Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu and Rāma*-the same thing, there is no difference. Kṛṣṇa includes everything,



*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo...

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa is the paramaḥ pumān, although there is no difference between Rāma and Viṣṇu and Nārāyaṇa and Kṛṣṇa. They are the same, same potency. Just like the candle, first candle. And lit up another candle, it is second candle, but the second candle is not less in power of lighting, the same. But still this is first, this is second. Similarly, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo [Bs. 5.39]. Kṛṣṇa is the original, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. All others, they're incarnation or kalāḥ, but Kṛṣṇa is the avatārī, the source of all incarnations. So, bhakta*-sane vāsa, satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido [SB 3.25.25]. The kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ, or the discussion about the Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes very pleasing, satām, when they're discussed among the devotees. nondevotee, he may go on speaking, but it is dry. It does not give any relish. Therefore it is advised, satāṁ prasaṅgān, one should discuss Kṛṣṇa consciousness amongst the devotees. So just contrary to this, Sanātana Gosvāmī says that,



*avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ

*pūtaṁ hari*-kathāmṛtam

śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam...



Avaiṣṇava, who is not a Vaiṣṇava, Māyāvādī... Māyāvādī philosophy is very dangerous. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has personally said, māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They're offenders to Kṛṣṇa. Just like the literatures, what is that literature, Kṛṣṇa is black something?



*Devotee: Viṣṇu*-sahasra-nāma.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



*Devotee: Some commentary by this Viṣṇu*-sahasra-nāma.



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is unknown, a black thing. A Māyāvādī, great philosopher of this city, he has explained like that. The Māyāvādī philosopher, Dr. Radhakrishnan, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." So the Māyāvādīs' only business is*-because they're avaiṣṇava not Vaiṣṇava-only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī has, in his Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, has very strongly recommended that, "Don't hear anything from, about Kṛṣṇa, from the Māyāvādīs or the avaiṣṇavas." Those who are follower, those who are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can protest. They can immediately chastise the rascal, "What you are nonsense speaking?" But a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he cannot challenge, therefore it is forbidden for them. Not to hear, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. For an advanced devotee, this Māyāvādī cannot do anything, but those who are neophyte, they become sometimes victim. Therefore, it is better to forbid them, not to hear. So Sanātana Gosvāmī has said, as Kṛṣṇa has said, satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. In the association of pure devotees, kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ becomes very relishable. Hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ. It is relishable, it is very pleasing to the ear, and to the heart. Hṛt means heart, and karṇa means this aural reception. Both ways pleasing, bhavanti hṛt-karṇa. Taj-joṣaṇād, if one little tries whatever he has heard, then śraddhā ratir bhaktir anukramiṣyati. Śraddhā, the real beginning is śraddhā.



ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-

*saṅga tato bhajana*-kriyā

*tato anartha*-nivṛttiḥ syāt

tato niṣṭhā tato ruci

athāsaktis tato bhāvas

(tataḥ premābhyudañcati)

sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ

prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]



*These are the different states. So śraddhā. So, by hearing from pure devotees satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya*-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. It will begins very pleasing to the heart, to the ear, taj-joṣaṇād āśu apavarga-vartmani. Śraddhā, beginning is śraddhā, śraddhā ratir bhaktir anukramiṣyati. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the association is opening different branches to give people the chance of hearing about Kṛṣṇa in the association of pure devotees. That is required. Read, hear about Bhagavad-gītā from the pure devotees, not from the rascals. Then you'll never get any benefit. Sanātana Gosvāmī forbids... nasam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam, never hear from these rascals. "Why? Kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ is very good. Never mind he's a rascal, what is the fault of kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ?" He's giving this example: śravaṇaṁ na kartavyaṁ sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payaḥ yathā, milk is very good, everyone knows, but when it is touched by the lip of a serpent, immediately it becomes poison. If you take that milk, then you'll die. So kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ is very good, but when it is touched by the lip of the Māyāvādī, nondevotee, it becomes poisonous. It becomes poisonous. Poisonous in this sense. It will push you far away from kṛṣṇa-bhakti. That is the loss, greatest loss of life.



*This life is meant for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavad*-gītā is left by Kṛṣṇa to make all people after Him, to become devotees. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. The instruction is there, but these rascals will spoil. They will never allow you to become a devotee. These rascals are so dangerous. They are going against the will of Kṛṣṇa. So one must be very careful to save himself from the poisonous effect of these rascals. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tāṅdera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa, live with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness devotees. And then by the association of the saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. As you make association, so you develop your desires, your qualities. Tādera caraṇa-sevi. Ei chay gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa, Caitanya here, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want to become servant of that person who has accepted these six Gosvāmīs as masters. Because I have to become servant of servant." So the Gosvāmīs, "One who has accepted these Gosvāmīs as master, I want to become his servant." Narottama dāsa does not say "I want to become servant of the Gosvāmīs." He says that "I want to become servant of that person who has accepted these six Gosvāmīs as master." That is the test. No, "I can speak, I can act, I mean to say, greater than the Gosvāmīs." "I don't want to become servant of such false proudly." No, anyone who submits,

*tādera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa

janame janame hoy ei abhilāsa



*I may not be liberated birth after birth, it doesn't matter. But I wish that, I wish to live with the devotees, bhakta*-sane vāsa. Janame janame hoy ei abhilāsa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also says the same thing. Janmaobi yadi mane icchā tohārā. He prays to Kṛṣṇa, "If you want that I shall take again my birth, then give me the chance of taking my birth in a place where is Your devotee. That is my only request. Because if I am placed in a society where there is no devotee, then my life will be spoiled. Then my life will be spoiled. Therefore I pray only this much. I don't want anything from you."



na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare...

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



*It doesn't matter I don't become liberated, what is liberation? If I am in the service of Kṛṣṇa, what is, liberation is already there. In Kṛṣṇa*-karṇāmṛta you'll find,



bhaktis tvayi sthiratarā yadi bhagavān syād

*daivena (naḥ) phalati divya*-kiśora-mūrtiḥ

muktiḥ (svayam) mukulitāñjaliḥ sevate 'smān...



Mukti, she'll stand with folded hands, "My dear sir, what can I do for you?" This is the position of bhakta. One, if one becomes bhakta, then mukti becomes her maidservant. Why shall I ask for mukti? Mukti is nothing. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. What is the mukti? It is as good as hell. Mukti means to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but there is no service of Kṛṣṇa. It is simply merging, to become one. Just like sunshine, and if you are put into the sunshine, what benefit do you get? Simply to have scorching heat on, that's all. What benefit would you get? And mukti is like that. That is light. Sunshine is light. Similarly from darkness, if I go to the light and don't get any shelter, anywhere, simply I remain in that sunshine, what benefit do I get?



*So, for a devotee, the mukti is bothersome. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī Prabhupāda says that kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Mukti means kaivalya. Simply ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that's all. Kaivalya. This perception, Brahman perception, brāhmaṇanda. But for a devotee, he says kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tri*-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate (Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). So for devotee, these things are not very much alluring, mukti, bhukti, siddhi. It is so sublime, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so sublime, that other things very insignificant in the front of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate 'smān dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa samaya-pratīkṣāḥ. People are after dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90], but this bhakti is above these four kinds of principles. Dharma. Actually, human life begins when he is religious, dharma. And artha, when he is economically developed, and when he can satisfy the senses very nicely. And then becomes mukta, liberated. But for a devotee, these four things are not very important. Bhukti, mukti, siddhi. Now siddhi means mukti. Siddhi means yogic siddhi.

*So in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also, Vyāsadeva says, in the beginning, dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. This dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa, these are kaitava. Kaitava means phala visandi (?). I am approaching, I am trying to become a religious person, but my inner desire is how to make my economic position developed. This is my inner position, therefore it is called kaitava, cheating. So phala visandi. As Śrīdhara Swami says, that in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, phala visandi paryantaṁ nirasta. Phala is mukti. Mukti is also phala visandi. So up to mukti, then above mukti, there is bhakti. It is a mistaken idea that one has to attain mukti by bhakti. Sometimes they say that, these pañcopāsanā Māyāvādī, they say that "Ultimately, the absolute truth is nirākāra. There is no form. But because you cannot worship or meditate upon the nirākāra, so just imagine some form. Either of Viṣṇu, or Lord Śiva or Sūrya or Devī." Pañcopāsanā, it is called pañcopāsanā. Sādhakānāṁ hitārthāya brahmaṇo rūpa-kalpanaḥ. This is kalpana, he imagines. "Ultimately the Brahman has no form, but because you are accustomed to meditate on the forms, and it is very difficult for you to meditate upon the formless, so you imagine some form. This is imagine, not fact." That is their theory. And Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad-gītā, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām [Bg. 12.5]. So that is simply troublesome. After much trouble in that way, when they come to the form of Vāsudeva, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That mahātmā is greater. Kṛṣṇa is not imagination. This is another offense to think of Kṛṣṇa as imagination. Just see, that it is imagination, kalpana, "Just make it kalpana, imagination of Kṛṣṇa." No, Kṛṣṇa is fact. Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa devotees, they are not after imagination. They are after the fact. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. Bhagavān, the personal. Kṛṣṇa says, brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āś..., paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. So these thing will be realized by, through the process as it is recommended by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.

*tādera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa

janame janame mora ei abhilāsa



*If we take the chance of living with the devotees, and try to serve the Gosvāmīs, who wanted to establish the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then our life will be successful. This is Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Study Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu very minutely, and this result you will achieve very easily. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has left The Nectar of Devotion. Read the next.



Pradyumna: "Let us offer our respectful obeisances to all the great devotees and ācāryas, or holy teachers, who are compared with sharks in the great ocean of nectar, and who do not care for the various rivers of liberation."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes the Māyāvādī philosophers, they give this example that "As all the rivers come down to the ocean, and then business is finished." But our philosophy is not so scanty. We do not wish to mix with the ocean, we want to go deep into the ocean. They give this example, nirākāra. Because ocean is, it is not nirākāra but it is, still they say nirākāra. Ocean is ākāra, we see around place (indistinct). But anyway, their philosophy is that you come to the ocean by different paths, then it becomes mixed. But they do not know, even though you come to the ocean, immediately you'll be evaporated. The ocean water is evaporated. The sun is always evaporating. Now you will be perhaps surprised, the modern science, they believe that the ocean water is, turns into cloud, but actually that is not the fact. The fact is that the ocean water is taken by the sun. Now, now there is heat, ocean water is evaporated always, where is the cloud? Where is the cloud? For three years the ocean water is being taken away by the sunshine, but why there is no cloud and no rain? Why? What is the answer of the scientist? Actually the cloud, when the sun, sun god that he ejects the water again, that becomes cloud. The rain comes from the sun, and the sun is taking the water, reserving, and when you deserve, it gives it. There is some control.



*So, we are suffering for want of rain, but you do not know how to get rain. We are, of course, making arrangements to feed the poor on account of scarcity of rain. That's all right, you are doing, but if there is no rain, how long you will go on with this philanthropy work? That is our question. How long? What stock you have got in your store, so that you can continually, you can go on? What you, what is the answer? You must have rain, and produce grain. Now you have got some stock of grain, you are distributing. That's all right, you have got money, that's all right. But when there will be all stock finished, and still there is no rain, what you will do? Because rain is not in your hand. Rain is not in your hand. It is in higher authorities. So what you will do? But the process is given there in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yajñād bhavati parjanyo parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Yajña, but they will not take the yajña. They have made a vow, (indistinct). No, we are not going to make any yajña. We are requesting, that you are distributing, at the same time perform yajña. Yajña, not that you have to expend so much money. Simply this saṅkīrtana-yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. Simply chanting. You are distributing food, that's all right. Why not allow them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra? What is the loss? But they'll not accept it. They'll not accept it. This is the dog's obstinacy, against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But they cannot answer. Just suppose, if your stock of grain is finished, then what you will do, if there's no rain. You cannot produce rain in your factory, rain or grain or anything, in your factory or mill. That is not possible.

*So people have become so fallen, they cannot understand the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā, although they are very much proud that reading Bhagavad-gītā daily. What you have understood? Then they cannot say anything. We have understood Kṛṣṇa means this black spot. This rascal hasn't understood Bhagavad-gītā and he's preaching Bhagavad-gītā. Just see the fault. So this is going on. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a war declared against all these rascals. We have got many enemies, but we don't care for them. Still we shall go on. Johnny Walker is still going strong. (loud laughter)

Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730109ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 9, 1973



Pradyumna: (reading) "Impersonalists are very fond of merging into the Supreme, like rivers that come down and merge into the ocean. The ocean can be compared with liberation, and the rivers with all the different paths of liberation. The impersonalists are dwelling in the river water, which eventually comes to mix with the ocean. They have no information, however, that within the ocean, as within the river, there are innumerable aquatic living entities. The sharks who dwell in the ocean do not care for the rivers which are gliding down into it. The devotees eternally live in the ocean of devotional service, and they do not care for the rivers."



*Prabhupāda: This comparison that the rivers, it does matter from which way it is coming down to the sea, when they mix together, they become one. But if this comparison is taken, that the rivers merging into the sea, and when it mixes there is no separate existence of the river, but they do not see analogy. Analogy, according to law of analogy, the points of similarities must be one. Analogy is perfect when the points of similarities are there. Just like we say, "Your face is as beautiful as moon." That means the face, beauty of the face is as attractive as the moon is attractive. The points of similarity is there. We cannot say an ugly face, your face is like moon. That cannot be. That is not analogy because there is no points of similarity. That is the law of analogy. So similarly, if you make analogy that as the different rivers are, the water is coming down and mixing with the sea, then it becomes one, but there are other points. This is superficial vision. There is other points. The same water again becomes evaporated, and again thrown on the ground, and they again glide down as rivers. That is, this is a fact. But if you go deep into the water, just like the shark fish-the comparison is given there*-the shark fish is never evaporated. The shark fish is within the water of the sea, and there is no question of evaporation. The water may be evaporated. So our point is, from śāstra we can understand,



*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas

*tvayy asta*-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

*patanty adho 'nādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ

[SB 10.2.32]



The point is that simply mixing with the sea water is not final salvation. Because the same example. The water is evaporated, again turns into cloud, then again falls, the same water again falls on the ground, then again glides down. So that is not very safe position. But if you take shelter of the ocean as a fish, then there is no question of evaporation. Just try to understand this analogy.



*Similarly, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The Absolute Truth is realized in three different features. Brahman, impersonal Brahman, brahmeti. Localized Paramātmā, the Lord is situated in everyone's heart, localized Paramātmā. And Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Māyāvādī philosophy is that because God is everything, therefore there is no separate existence of God. This is Māyāvādī philosophy. God is everything, that's all right, but that's not, that does not mean God loses His existence. This is material conception. The material conception is that you take anything, suppose you take a piece of paper and you make it into small pieces and throw it, then the original paper has no existence. So the Māyāvādī philosophers, they are thinking like that. If God is everything*-that's a fact, God is everything-but that does not mean that God is lost of His own existence. That is material.

*Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. This is the Vedic information. You take... Here we have got experience, one minus one equal to zero. But we get the Vedic information that one minus one equal to one, one plus one equal to one. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. You take whole thing, but still, advaita acyuta. Acyuta. Advaita. God may expand Himself and so, eko bahu śyām, He has expanded Himself as svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. Svāṁśa means viṣṇu*-tattva, just like Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma, Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, Pradyumna, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, so many. Ananta, advaita acyuta ananta-rūpa. So ananta-rūpam, that does not mean the original, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], He is lost. No. He is not lost. He is there, although He has expanded Himself. We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. We are vibhinnāṁśa. We are small particles, not with the full power. The Viṣṇu expansion, They're with full power. We, living entities, we are also expansion, eko bahu śyām. That one God has become many. As viṣṇu-tattva, as Viṣṇu energy, as Viṣṇu svāṁśa, as Viṣṇu vibhinnāṁśa, so many He has expanded.

*Just like the Sun, you can understand. What is this material world? It is the expansion of sun's heat and light, that's all. Any scientist knows. But there are so many varieties of expansion. It is due to the sunshine that the trees are growing in different foliage, different color. There are so many fruits and flowers, they're growing, and as soon as there is no sunshine, everything becomes desert. There are seven colors in the sunshine. From material point of view, you can understand how much potency is God, Kṛṣṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis. Our philosophy is that God, everything is God. That is śakti pariṇāmavāda. He is everything by His potency. Not that He is finished. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ahaṁ sarvam idaṁ tataṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. In my impersonal feature I am spread all over the universe, all over the world.

ahaṁ sarvam idaṁ tataṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtina

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



Everything is resting on me, but it is not that I am there. So this philosophy, so devotional service is not only mixing, but to remain steady, engaged. The same example. The rivers, that is superficial, you..., we are seeing the ocean superficially. There is no varieties, simply water, simply water, simply water. But if you go deep into the water, there are so many varieties, so many varieties. Similarly, simply entering, merging to the Brahman effulgence, brahmajyoti, that is not secure position. The secure position is within the brahmajyoti. That is explained in the *Īśopaniṣad*. Within the brahmajyoti there are planets, Vaikuṇṭha planets. So you have to take shelter in one of the planets. Just like the fish, the comparison of the fish, the shark fish. He has taken shelter of the ocean. Therefore the, for him there is no evaporation. The water, although it is also sea water, that, that is subjected to be evaporated. So simply by entering into the Brahman effulgence is not safe. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32].



*So our Bhakti*-rasāmṛta teaches, just, just become a shark fish or even small fish. Actually there are many types of fishes, even a small fish, that also not become evaporated. That remains in this water, because it has taken shelter completely of the ocean. Similarly, if you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, there is no chance of falling down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Those who are not taking shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is chance of falling down. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā, they take shelter of Brahman, and reject this world, material world as mithyā, but unless they take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot stay there. He has to again come back. That is the position.

*Therefore bhakti*-yoga is secure. Secure mukti. Mukti means to engage in the service of the Lord. We are serving in this material world. Everyone is serving, but this is not mukti. This is our anyathā rūpa. We are serving, just like I am serving my country. I am Indian, I am very much feeling compassion for my Indian brothers. Similarly, Americans are feeling, Chinese are feeling, identifying, that we have made compartment. No, if you feel as Kṛṣṇa conscious, that feeling is perfect. Otherwise, these feeling, temporary āruhya, patanty adhaḥ. This is a fact. Now I have got Indian body, suppose, but next life there is no guarantee in human body. Next life, even if I get Indian body, if I become a cow or goat, then I'll be sent to the slaughterhouse. So, this, these are not guarantees. This is anyathā rūpa. Our, this change of body, that is our anyathā rūpa. We must be fixed up in our own rūpa, svarūpa. Svarūpa-siddhi. It is called svarūpa-siddhi. Svarūpa-siddhi means to be engaged in the service of Lord. That is real mukti, mukti hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Purification. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become free from all designations. We are designated now. I am working as American, I am working as family man, I am working as this, that. These are all designations. When I shall work as eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is real mukti. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Go on.

Pradyumna: "The devotees eternally live in the ocean of devotional service, and they do not care for the rivers."



*Prabhupāda: Just like the shark fish, they do not come into the river. That means those who are nitya*-mukta, eternally liberated, they do not come into this material world. They do not come. There are two kinds of living entities, nitya-mukta, nitya baddha. Nitya-baddha, we are. Those who are in this material world, we are eternally conditioned. Eternally conditioned in this way, because I am changing my body, one after another. As I am desiring, I am getting my next body. This body I am creating, my next body, again when I shall get next body, I shall create another body. So this is going on. And because it is going on, when it has begun and when it is going to end, that you do not know. Therefore it is called nitya, eternal. Actually it is not eternal, but we do not know when I have begun my material existence. At least we can think that since this material, this term of material creation was there, I began my life. But no, that is not actual fact. The actual fact is, when there was no creation, I was submerged into the body of Nārāyaṇa, Mahā-Viṣṇu. And when there is again creation, I come out. So when I was submerged into the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu, before that my activities began in this material world. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].



*So we are given chance when there is creation, another cosmic manifestation. We are given chance. Now, you take another chance. Come back home, back, go back to home, back to Godhead. But we misuse this chance. On account of our ignorance, we misuse this chance, especially this human form of body. Here is a chance. We can go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore the śāstras are there. The Vedas are there. The Upaniṣads are there. Why? To give us information. To awaken us. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibhodata. The Vedas say, "Now you wake up, take advantage." Prāpya varān. "You have got this book. You fulfill your mission. Don't rot in this material world." Kṛṣṇa Himself comes, He..., to recall us. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But still we cannot understand Him. We say Kṛṣṇa is dark, Kṛṣṇa is unknown. Why Kṛṣṇa is unknown? Kṛṣṇa, He is giving His own identification, and I am authority of explaining Bhagavad-gītā, I say Kṛṣṇa is unknown. Just see the fuss. I am writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā for misleading others, and personally when I'm asked, "What you know?" "That Kṛṣṇa is unknown to me." This is going on. Kṛṣṇa is declaring Himself,

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*I am the origin of all creation, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, everything emanates from me. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2], Kṛṣṇa says. Devānām, from Brahmā, devānām means beginning with Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, then other devas, Indra, Candra. So Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām. I am the ṛṣīnām, all the ṛṣis, then prakṛti. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10], under my superintendence this material world is working. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta mad-yājī māṁ nama... Everything Kṛṣṇa is declaring, and the rascals say Kṛṣṇa is unknown. Just see the fault. And he's explaining Bhagavad-gītā. He should have explained that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, instead of his posing that Kṛṣṇa is unknown, He is black, dark. Our philosophy is, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,



*kṛṣṇa*-sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra



*Kṛṣṇa is just like sun, sūrya*-sama. Māyā is andhakāra, not Kṛṣṇa is andhakāra. Because Kṛṣṇa, this Kṛṣṇa word sometimes means darkness, so Kṛṣṇa has become dark. He becomes unknown. Actually wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no more darkness, there is no more ignorance.



*kṛṣṇa*-sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra



*So actually such persons they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, but they have the audacity out of their so*-called, puffed-up education, they try to explain Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa can be explained (by one) who knows about Kṛṣṇa. And who knows Kṛṣṇa? Only the devotee knows (Kṛṣṇa). Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Not that because one has got very advanced knowledge, he can understand Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ. I am not supposed to be exposed to all this nonsense. He says. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Actually what I am, tattvataḥ, in truth, that can be understood through devotion. Through love of Kṛṣṇa, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Everything is there, clear. If you are not bhakta, if you are philosopher, that's all right, remain philosopher, why you try to touch Kṛṣṇa? That is not your subject matter. Don't poke your nose in that subject matter. Don't mislead others, nonsense. You go to hell. That is another thing. But why you are pushing others to the hell? That is our protest. That is our protest. You go to hell. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram eva yoniṣu [Bg. 16.19], Kṛṣṇa says. Because they are krūrān, they are envious of Kṛṣṇa. They know, Kṛṣṇa is describing Himself like this, still he says Kṛṣṇa is unknown. This is cruel, hiṁsā. So in this way, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. We must understand Kṛṣṇa by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. The, Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood by these blunt senses. It is not possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When one becomes purified after being freed from all kinds of designations, that is the beginning.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



There begins bhakti.



*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya-jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



*Only the muktas. Those who are conditioned, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They will say, "Kṛṣṇa (is) dark," "Kṛṣṇa is unknown." "Kṛṣṇa is black." That's all. Because he is seeing with his eyes. Kṛṣṇa is not unknown. Kṛṣṇa (is) known only to the devotees. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvam [SB 10.14.29]. Athāpi te deva. "My dear Lord, by your mercy one who has got a little, fragmental portion of your mercy," prasāda leśa. Prasāda means mercy, and leśa means very small portion. "Anyone who has got a little portion of your mercy, he can know you." Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvam, he can understand. Na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan. Others, they can go on speculating on their philosophy for millions of years, still they will not be able to understand. They will not be able to understand, simply futile, simply futile, they cannot. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Surrender unto Me. If you don't surrender unto Me, you do not become my devotee, I'll not be exposed to you, I am not so cheap." Kṛṣṇa is not so cheap, but He's cheap to the devotees. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Vedeṣu durlabham. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa by the strength of your Vedic study, so-called Vedic study, because that is foolish study. He does not know. That is the test. If he, one does not understand Kṛṣṇa, his Vedic study is simply waste of time. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. The test will be whether he has understood Kṛṣṇa. If one has studies Vedas, the test will be whether he understands Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. If he is missing Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is unknown, then all his study is useless waste of time. Useless waste of time. This is the verdict of the śāstra. So those, one who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he, his knowledge is not at all advanced, what to speak of perfection. There is no question of perfection. Perfection of knowledge is surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa.



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*So this is the position. So one who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, if they speak to the public about Kṛṣṇa, about Bhagavad*-gītā, they are nonsense, simply misleading people. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They are themselves blind, and there are other blind men there also, therefore they do not get any profit out of it. So many Gītār jñāna, Gītār version is going on, but still they are in the same darkness. Same darkness. Not a single staid(?) is follower. Why? Well, that is not the way of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12].



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Such, you have to approach a jñānī who has seen the truth. And how the truth can be seen? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. The tattva*-darśinaḥ and tattva. It is through the devotional service. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa, there are so many versions about this thing,



*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



*Kṛṣṇa reveals. You cannot order Kṛṣṇa, "Please come here, I'll see You." No, that is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is not your order*-supplier. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. You have to surrender. Then Kṛṣṇa will reveal unto you. Being pleased by your service, He will reveal. Not that because you are very nice scholar, you know much a-b-c-d, Kṛṣṇa will come to you. No. Kṛṣṇa is not subjected to such order-supplying agency. Yes, go on.



*Pradyumna: "Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī prays to his spiritual master, Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, for the protection of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, 'The Ocean of the Pure Nectar of Devotional Service,' from the argumentative logicians who unnecessarily meddle in the science of service to the Lord."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Logicians, nyāya, what is called?



Devotee: Mīmāṁsā.



Prabhupāda: Mīmāṁsā. Mīmāṁsā. Mīmāṁsā jara (?). So Kṛṣṇa is not subjected to this logic, mīmāṁsā, grammar. No. Kṛṣṇa is transcendental. Therefore, Śaṅkarācārya says,



bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ

*bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha*-mate

prāpte sannihite maraṇe

*na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛñ*-karaṇe



*Ḍukṛn, du*-prata, kṛñ-prata, these are grammatical jugglery. So these Māyāvādīs, they coin words by grammatical jugglery. This word may be meant, may be meaning like this. They're all grammatical jugglery. Then nyāya jugglery. So they take advantage of this jugglery. Kṛṣṇa is not subjected to this jugglery of words. Kṛṣṇa keeps always His independence, and if you fulfill the condition, if you surrender unto Him, then He will be revealed unto you. Not by your jugglery of words. That is not possible.



Pradyumna: "He compares their arguments and logic to volcanic eruptions in the midst of the ocean."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes they create havoc. Because these Māyāvādīs, Kṛṣṇa gives them intelligence. Because he wants to, he puts forward his logic to kill Kṛṣṇa, or to forget Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also gives his intelligence, "Yes, you talk like this so that you will forget forever." Yes. (laughter). "You talk like this." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca, Kṛṣṇa says. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa can give you. If you actually want Kṛṣṇa, He'll give you intelligence. Dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ yena mām upayānti te. Kṛṣṇa is very cunning also. This man is trying to forget Me, to mislead others. He is misleading himself, others cannot be mislead, for the time being, but he is misled for good. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram eva yoniṣu [Bg. 16.19]. These asuras, on account of their enviousness upon Kṛṣṇa, to prove that there is no Kṛṣṇa, there is no God, so these people are put into andhā yoni. Andhā yoni means in such, just like animals. They cannot understand about Kṛṣṇa. Kṣipāmy andhā yoniṣu. So that is Kṛṣṇa's punishment, that "He wants to forget Me, he wants to kill Me. All right, he, let him be put into such birth that he may not know what is Kṛṣṇa for many, many births." Yes, go on.



Pradyumna: "In the midst of the ocean, such volcanic eruptions can do very little harm, and similarly, those who are against devotional service to the Lord and who put forward many philosophical theses about the ultimate transcendental realization cannot disturb this great ocean of devotional service."



*Prabhupāda: That sometimes, everyone knows, there is volcanic eruption in the ocean. What does it harm to the ocean? It throws out some lava, some little island may come out, but what is the harm to the ocean? Similarly, these rascal may go on with their philosophy for killing Kṛṣṇa. That does not hurt Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It will go on. This ocean will never be disturbed by these so*-called philosophies. This will never be disturbed. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "The author of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, very humbly submits that he is just trying to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, although he humbly thinks himself unfit for this work."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Every Vaiṣṇava, that is Vaiṣṇava's sadācāra (?), humble. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Although Vaiṣṇava knows everything, still he presents himself very humble, lower that the straw, humbler than the tree. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā, they don't..., the devotee does not claim any so*-called popular respect, false respect. They go on with their Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā, if anyone wants some honor, he gives everyone honor. For him, he does not want any honor. What honor he'll take? This material honor. Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was offered benediction by Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, "You take any kind of benediction." So Prahlāda Mahārāja replied, "My dear Lord, I am born of a father, passionate, and I am always greedy about material opulence, naturally, because my father was like that. So You are offering benediction. I can ask from you any kind of material opulence. I know that. But, what I shall do all these material opulences. I've seen my father was so strong materially, that when he was angry even the demigods trembled. He was so powerful. Now everything is finished within a second by You. So what is the value of this material opulence? Why shall I ask you all these nonsense. Kindly engage me, kindly engage me in the service of Your servant, that I want." This is devotion. They don't want anything. Kindly engage me nijunkaman ātmā dāse (?). That is the prayer. So the devotees, they do not want anything material. They are not captivated by so-called followers. No. Na dhanaṁ na janam, janam means followers, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. What is this false power? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasaḥ. If one disciple is enlivened with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can work as the moon. Otherwise so many foolish followers, what they'll do? Just like stars. Thousands and millions of stars, they cannot do anything. One moon is sufficient. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasaḥ. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not required that everyone will be follower. That is not possible, because it is very difficult. But still, if one follower, sincere follower is there, it will go on. It will go on. Nobody can stop it. Go on.



Pradyumna: "That should be the attitude of all preachers of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, following in the footsteps of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. We should never think of ourselves as great preachers, but should always consider that we are simply instrumental to the previous ācāryas."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, we should not be very much proud that "I have created wonderful." Why? What wonderful? What? I am not a magician that I can create wonderful. Sometimes people, they give me so much honor. "Swamijī, you have created wonderful." I do not feel that I have created wonderful. What I have done? I say that I, I do, I'm not a magician. I do not know how to create wonderful. I have simply Bhagavad*-gītā, presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all. If there is any credit, this is only credit. Anyone can do it. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, and anyone can present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So it will act wonderful. I am not a magician. I do not know the tricks of magics and the yoga-siddhi, I am creating (visual expression) like this. (laughter) I have no such power. Neither I do it. So I, my only credit is, I do not want to mix with this pure Bhagavad-gītā teaching, any rascaldom, that's all. That is my credit. And whatever little miracle has been done, only on this principle. That's all. Go on.



Pradyumna: "...and simply by following in their footsteps we may be able to do something for the benefit..."



Prabhupāda: Yes, the same thing. Our purpose should be to satisfy our predecessors.



*tādera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa

janame janame more ei abhilāsa



*We cannot deviate from the path of the previous ācāryas. We must strictly follow. That is the qualification. We must follow their instruction. Therefore I repeatedly say to my students that "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra sixteen rounds, and follow the regulative principles. Your strength is there." If we..., just like Himalayan mountain, nobody can push it. Very simple thing. It is so powerful. Yaha hoite sarva*-siddhi haya. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's request. Don't deviate from the instruction. Then you will stand as strong as the Himalayan mountain. Very simple thing. Anyone can do. We are asking, following the footsteps of predecessor, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpānuga. Therefore we are called rūpānuga. Anuga. Anuga means following. Going, following the footsteps of Rūpa Gosvāmī. So as the, Rūpa Gosvāmī is following his predecessor, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, so we have to follow our predecessor. Then we will be successful. There is no doubt about it. Nobody can do any harm. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. If you stick to the principle of following the footsteps of previous predecessor, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2], don't add anything, don't subtract anything, present as it is and keep your spiritual strength intact, then the preaching will go on. Nobody can disturb you.



That's all. Thank you very much. (end)



721028ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 28, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading) "...divided into four parts, just as the ocean is sometimes divided into four parts, and there are different sections within each of these four divisions. Originally in Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, the ocean is divided like the watery ocean into east, west, north, and south, while the sub-sections within these different divisions are called waves. As in the ocean, there are always different waves, either on the eastern side, the western side, the northern side, or the southern side, so similarly Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu has different waves. In the first part there are four waves, the first being a general description of devotional service. The second concerns the regulative principles for executing devotional service and the third wave is devotional service in ecstasy. In the fourth is the ultimate goal, love of God. These will be explicitly described, along with their different symptoms. The authorized description of bhakti, or devotional service..."



*Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu compared bhakti as the, a great ocean. So when He was speaking before Rūpa Gosvāmī, He said that "It is just like a ocean. So I'll take a drop of it, and you taste it, and you'll understand what is this ocean." Just like by tasting one drop of sea water we can understand the taste of the whole ocean, similarly Caitanya Mahāprabhu described a small portion of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Bhakti rasa amṛta. Bhakti, devotional service, there is a rasa, taste, and the taste is amṛta, eternal.



*Here also, we have got taste for any relationship. Just like we have got our relationship with master and servant. So this relationship is a perverted reflection of the real master and servant. Here it is perverted because the master also does not love the servant, and the servant also does not love the master. The servant serves the master so long there is payment. If the payment is stopped, then no more the servant will be available. But in the eternal world, the Kṛṣṇa's servant... So that is eternal, without any payment. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. Ahaitukī. The servants of God, or Kṛṣṇa, they serve Kṛṣṇa not for any material gain. Ahaitukī. Therefore this word is used, ahaitukī, without any cause of motive. This is real bhakti. Therefore this bhakti word is applicable only in relationship with God, or Kṛṣṇa. In the material world, there cannot be any use of the word bhakti. Because here the so*-called devotional service is motivated. So this bhakti word is monopolized by Kṛṣṇa, and nobody else. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "The authorized description of bhakti, or devotional service, following in the footsteps of previous ācāryas can be summarized in the following statement of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī: 'First*-class devotional service is known by one's tendency to be fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, serving the Lord favorably.' "



Prabhupāda: Yes.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



This is the first statement of bhakti given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. The... "First class devotional service is known by one's tendency to be fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, serving the Lord favorably." Not unfavorably. Ānukūla, prātikūla. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpa prātikūlyam vivarjanam. Bhakti means we should simply accept what is favorable to Kṛṣṇa. What is not favorable to Kṛṣṇa, that we shall not accept.



*Just like Arjuna. In the beginning he declined to fight. He was thinking favorably to his own senses, that "If I kill my brother, grandfather, nephews, those who are on the other side,... They have come to fight with me. So I can kill them. I can own victory over them. But what is the profit? If my relatives, friends, and all others die, then what is the use of my become victorious?" That was his... That means he was thinking in his favor. Kṛṣṇa wanted that "You must fight. You are a kṣatriya. It is your duty to fight. You are My friend. If you go away, fly away from this battlefield, what people will say? That 'Kṛṣṇa's friend has gone away.' So this is not good." So when he could not be convinced, then Kṛṣṇa had to speak the whole Bhagavad*-gītā. Then after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa inquired from Arjuna "What is your decision now? Are you going to fight or not?" Arjuna said, "Yes, my illusion is over." Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat-prasādān madhusūdana. So kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. "Yes, I shall fight." So this is favorable to Kṛṣṇa.

*So we have to see what is favorable to Kṛṣṇa, not sense gratification, not favorable to me. Or to my country, or to my society. No self*-interest. Only Kṛṣṇa's interest. That is bhakti. So by fighting, Arjuna became a great devotee. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Kṛṣṇa certified that "You are My greatest devotee. You are My very confidential friend." But what did he do? He did not read Vedānta philosophy. He was a gṛhastha, a king, engaged in fighting. He knew how to fight only. He did not know what is Vedānta philosophy. But still, he became a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Bhakto 'si. So what is the criterion? The criterion is that he fought favorably. He did favorably to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*That is described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. What is the difference between kāma and... Kāma means lust; *and love. Kāma and prema. Prema is love, and kāma is lust. It appears similar. In the material world, lust is going on in the name of love. A boy loves a girl, a girl loves a boy, but actually the boy also wants sense gratification and the girls also want sense gratification. That is not love. As soon as there is any difficulty in sense gratification, immediately there is divorce. So there is no love. There is only lust. In the material world there is no love. Therefore Caitanya*-caritāmṛta Kaja, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he has distinguished between love and lust. He says, ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā tāre nāma kāma [Cc. Ādi 4.165]. When you want to satisfy your senses, that is called lust. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti vāñchā dhare prema nāma. When you want to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, that is love.

*Just like Arjuna. In the beginning he wanted to satisfy his own senses. "I shall not fight because if the other party, my brothers and grandfathers, they live, I shall be happy." So that is kāma. That is not prema. But when he agreed to fight because Kṛṣṇa wanted it... Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin. So that is prema. So Kṛṣṇa-prema can be executed in so many ways. Simply Kṛṣṇa should be satisfied. That is prema. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So at the present moment, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā wanted: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna-Arjuna means everyone*-that they should surrender to Kṛṣṇa and be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. So people... Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, means God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is propagating that to serve Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present He demanded that "You surrender unto Me," and we are preaching, "You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." What is the difference? There is no difference. So the same thing, what was spoken five thousand years ago by Kṛṣṇa personally, we, Kṛṣṇa cons..., we, Kṛṣṇa conscious men... Because we are known in the world as Hare Krishna People. They write in the newspaper, "The Hare Krishna People." So our preaching is the same. We don't change. We present, therefore, Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. Kṛṣṇa says that everyone should surrender unto Him. We are preaching the same philosophy, that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We say the same thing. We ask everyone that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You think of Kṛṣṇa constantly. You worship Kṛṣṇa. You offer you obeisances unto Kṛṣṇa." So this is favorable. If we preach what Kṛṣṇa said five thousand years ago, that is favorable. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. To act in favor Kṛṣṇa means Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Go on.

Pradyumna: "The purport is that one may also be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness unfavorably, but that cannot be counted as pure devotional service. Pure devotional service should be free from the desire for any material benefit or for sense gratification as these two desires are cultivated through fruitive activities and philosophical speculation."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense gratification... I, as I was explaining, a few minutes (I finished?) before. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta Kaja says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. Bhukti. Bhukti means karmīs. They want sense enjoyment. So long they live here in this body, they enjoy their senses to the topmost, and they make provision for the next life, to be elevated in the heavenly planet to enjoy in the Nandana-kānana with the demigods. More standard of living, enjoyment more opulent. That is the desire of the karmīs. Jñānīs, they say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "This world is false. There is no enjoyment. Actual enjoyment, to merge into the existence of Brahman." So that is also a subtle sense enjoyment. Leave this world, and enter into Brahman. Then you feel happy. So that is also sense enjoyment. Similarly, yogis, they also want power, material power. Aṇimā laghimā siddhi. Aṣṭa-siddhi. So if you have some power, you can fly in the air, you can walk over the water, you can get anything you desire immediately. These are yoga-siddhi. So that is also satisfying own sense gratification. So except bhakti, everything is for sense gratification. That is unfavorable. Kṛṣṇa does not want to satisfy anyone's senses. That is not Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. He wants everyone should serve Him. He's not going to serve anyone. That is Kṛṣṇa's position. Therefore anyone who serves Kṛṣṇa and preaches this philosophy, to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is favorable. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Go on.



Pradyumna: "Generally, people are engaged in different activities to get some material profit, while most philosophers are engaged in proposing transcendental realization through volumes of word jugglery and speculation. Pure devotional service must always be free from such fruitive activities and philosophical speculations. One has to learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or pure devotional service..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Pure devotional service should be uncovered by the motive of nirbheda-brahmānusandhana, the motive of karma and motive of jñāna. That is pure devotional service. No motive.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanam...

[Brs. 1.1.11]



Simply to do things which Kṛṣṇa wants to do, that is bhakti. That is pure bhakti. Go on.



Pradyumna: "One has to learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness or pure devotional service from the authorities by spontaneous loving service."



*Prabhupāda: Spontaneous. This service should be spontaneous, not forced. Just like a father loves his son spontaneously. A young man likes to love a young girl spontaneously. So bhakti should be like that. As soon as one hears the name of Kṛṣṇa, immediately, spontaneously, he should be ready to serve Him. That is pure devotion. Not that forced. In the beginning, we have to force, that "You rise early in the morning. There is maṅgala ārātrika. You have to perform it." But when this function will be done spontaneously, "Oh, this is the time to offer maṅgala ārātrika to my Lord..." That is wanted. That is wanted. Not that "Oh, it is a heavy burden to rise early in the morning and to offer maṅgala ārātrika." That is not spontaneous. But one has to act under the direction of spiritual master and śāstra, which is called vidhi*-bhakti, regulative devotional service, he comes to the platform of spontaneous service.



*We have got an example in this connection. Formerly there was child*-marriage. Boys and girls were married at the age of ten years, twelve years. So at that time, there was no practically love. But the guardians, they induced the girl to go and offer her husband some eatables, to give her some service. In this way... That was just like regulative. But when they actually come in the platform of attraction, there is no need of direction. So the spontaneous love, when spontaneously we shall serve Kṛṣṇa, without any obligation, without any force, that is required. Spontaneous love, rāga-mārga. Go on.

Pradyumna: "This devotional service is a sort of civilization. It is not simply inaction for people who like to be inactive or devote their time to silent meditation. There are many different methods for people who want this, but civilization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different. The particular word used by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī is this connection is anuśīlana, or cultivation by following the predecessor teachers, or ācāryas. As soon as we say 'cultivation,' we must refer to activity. Without activity, consciousness alone cannot help us.' "



Prabhupāda: Yes. People say that inactivity, silence, that is perfection. But no. In bhakti cultivation, there is no such thing silence. Always active. The same example can be given that Arjuna... Arjuna became devotee not by silence, but by being active. Activity, spontaneous activity. "I have to do this. My Lord will be pleased. So I have to do this." Activity. But if I have no idea what is Lord, what does He want, how He's pleased, if we do not know all these things, naturally there will be no activity. But one who knows what is this Lord, what does He want, what is my relationship with Him, then there is activity. So actually, that bhakti, bhakti is not silence. Bhakti is activity.



*Just like personally, up to seventy years, I was practically doing nothing. But at the age of seventy years, by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, there was inspiration. I went to western countries. Not to sit down there silently. So bhakti, the path is not inactivity. Actual activity begins when one is situated on devotional service. It is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. When one is brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realized, he's prasannātmā, joyful, ānandamaya. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no desire to fulfill, neither he has lamentation. Here, in the material world, we hanker after things which we do not possess. "I want this. I want that." And we cry when the thing is lost. Na śocati. But a brahma-bhūtaḥ, when one is self-realized, when one knows that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, he's part and parcel of Brahman, at that time, he becomes joyful. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. And he sees everyone on the equal footing. Because Brahman-realized. He knows everyone is not this body. He's spirit soul, part and parcel of Supreme Brahman. This position, when one comes to this platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. That is the stage to be promoted to the Brahman activity.

*The nirviśeṣa, impersonalists, they want to stop activity, but actually Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, says that real activity begins when one is self*-realized, one is situated in Brahman realization. Brahman realization does not mean to stop. Brahman realization means to act for Kṛṣṇa, not for sense gratification. That is Brahman realization. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. And in that bhakti stage, bhaktyā māṁ abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Actually, simply by executing devotional service, being freed from all material contamination, when one is engaged in devotional service, bhakti, that process, bhakti process can help one to understand what is God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. It is not said that by karma, "karmaṇā mām abhijānāti." No. "Jñānena mām abhijānāti." Abhijānāti, tattvataḥ, if one wants to know God in truth, then he must take to devotional service. And this devotional service, actual devotional service begins when one is Brahman realized.

*So one may argue, "Does it mean that all the bhaktas... We see they are not even educated... How he has realized Brahman?" That answer is given in the Bhagavad*-gītā that

māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*This very platform of serving Kṛṣṇa, avyabhicāriṇi, without any adulteration, means without any motive... When one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service without any motive... Not that "I establish a Deity in the temple with a motive that people will come, will give money, and I shall make it a path of earning my livelihood." That is not devotion. Devotion is without any motive. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. So without any motive, when one is engaged in devotional service, that is brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage. That is liberated stage. According to Bhāgavata, liberation, mukti, means to be situated in one's constitutional position. That is called mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Hitvā anyathā rūpa.



Now because we are designated, we have got this body, designation, therefore we are situated in different positions. Somebody's working for his family. Somebody's working for his community. Somebody's working for his nation. But this is anyathā rūpam. This is depending on the bodily designation. "I am American. I am Indian. Therefore I must sacrifice everything for my country, for my nation." This is anyathā rūpam. And when we engage ourself that "I am Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Kṛṣṇa is my master. I am His eternal servant. I must work for Kṛṣṇa." That is mukti. That is liberation. So anyone who is working for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has no other motive than to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. He has no other motive than to satisfy the representative of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are hitvā anyathā rūpam.

These European, American boys, they are working for Kṛṣṇa. It is practical. They are not working for their community, country or nation. Neither Kṛṣṇa is their God. According to common understanding, in the Dictionary it is said Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God. But they are not working for Hindu God. They are working for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that

*sarva*-yoniṣu kauteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



They have understood this philosophy that Kṛṣṇa is neither Indian nor Hindu or this or that. Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's father of everyone. They've understood in this spirit. Therefore they're working for Kṛṣṇa. Without any motive. This is practical. Not only Europe and... Everywhere. Everywhere, all over the world. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everybody.



*Nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. This devotional service of Kṛṣṇa is dormant in everyone. It is, it has to be awakened. That's all. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. Simply by hearing, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanam [SB 1.2.17]. If you simply hear Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the representative of Kṛṣṇa... As Caitanya Mahāprabhu directed, bhāgavata paro diya bhāgavata sthane. One should hear about Bhāgavata from the devotee. There are two kinds of Bhāgavata, the book Bhāgavata and the person Bhāgavata. So we have to relish the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the contents of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, from a devotee who is self-realized. Then it will be very nice. Satāṁ prasaṅgād mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. When you hear about Kṛṣṇa from a Kṛṣṇa devotee, it becomes very pleasing to the ear and the heart. Hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Therefore to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tad vidhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. This is the process. So this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu is the science of devotional service. If one wants to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead...

*When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means all Viṣṇu forms, all Viṣṇu forms. Rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavad paramaḥ pumān yo [Bs. 5.39]. All incarnations, they are also Kṛṣṇa, expansion of Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa, this Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, He's the Supreme Person. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So these things are explained in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, as they are in the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The summary, the juice of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, devotional service is given in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. We have translated this book as Nectar of Devotion. And you'll be pleased to hear that in some of the universities in U.S.A. this book has been recommended as study book in the religious class. They're now reading regularly.

So we shall stop now. It is dark. There is no light. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (end)



730110ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 10, 1973



*Pradyumna: Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu is divided into four parts, just as the ocean is sometimes divided into four parts, and there are different sections within each of these four divisions. Originally, in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, the ocean is divided like the watery ocean to east, west, north and south, while the subsections within these different divisions are called waves. As in the ocean there are always different waves, either on the eastern side, the western side, the northern side, or the southern side, so similarly, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu...



*Prabhupāda: That Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, the Sanskrit word... We have short cut the translation, Nectar of Devotion, but the, Rūpa Gosvāmī's purpose is to present the ocean of bhakti-rasa. Rasa means mellow. The juice. It is just like ocean. This ocean has limitation, but that is unlimited. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said this ocean is increasing. Now, this material ocean, it has got limit. It cannot increase unlimitedly. That is not possible. Otherwise, how you could build these houses on the beach? No, it is ordered not to come forward beyond this line. But the spiritual bliss type ocean is increasing. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. That is the difference between spiritual bliss and material enjoyment. Material enjoyment is limited. You cannot enjoy unlimitedly. That is not possible. Just for few seconds, for few minutes, or for few hours, then it becomes disgusting. That is the material enjoyment. But the spiritual enjoyment, spiritual bliss is different. That is simply increasing. So, therefore in the śāstra it is said, ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. Those who are yogis, bhakta-yogi, they enjoy unlimitedly. Rāmante yoginaḥ anante, and that is satyānande. That ānanda bliss is real bliss. This is artificial. This is perverted reflection.



*I have several times explained that the love affairs between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, that is fact. There is no end. Eternally They are enjoying. Rādhārāṇī is enjoying the company of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya vikṛtir ahlādinī śakti. That is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. As Kṛṣṇa is eternal, Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency is also eternal. So real love, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, or Kṛṣṇa and the cowherd boys, Kṛṣṇa and Yaśodā Ma, Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's servants, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's trees, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's water, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's flower, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's cows, everything eternal. That is eternal. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā-kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Kṛṣṇa's enjoyment means Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Just like in Bhāgavata, you know, when Kṛṣṇa's cowherd boys, calves and cows were stolen by Brahmā, Kṛṣṇa again expanded Himself in the similar forms so that the mother of the cowherd boys, the mother of the calves, they may not feel separation. Kṛṣṇa immediately replaced. That is Kṛṣṇa.

*So the blissful enjoyment with Kṛṣṇa, it is unlimited. That is called Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Rasa and amṛta. Amṛta, that is not dying, that is not possible. Want (?) some material enjoyment. It is not possible. But, because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they still persisted. Yes, this is the difference. You will feel more and more enthusiasm. In this material world, the more you'll work, you'll feel tired. And the spiritual world, the more you work, you'll feel enthused. That is called anandāmbudhi-vardhanam. That is the test. If our workers are feeling tired, then that means he's working materially. And if he's feeling enthused, more and more, that is his, he's working spiritually. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. That is the spiritual test. Rāmante yoginaḥ anante satyānande cid-ātmani [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. That is cid-ātmani, that is spiritual, not material. So here, we are trying to enjoy material. So how we can be happy? That is not possible. Materially we cannot be happy, therefore Bhagavad-gītā gives us indication, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. If you want happiness, happiness is our prerogative. Every individual soul, happiness. Because Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, eternal, blissful, ānanda. Ānanda, blissful. Cit, knowledge and sat, eternal. That is Kṛṣṇa. Sat-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ.

*Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Vigraha means form, but not this form. Those who have no knowledge about Kṛṣṇa, they are thinking Kṛṣṇa is māyā. These bhaktas, they are worshiping the māyā form. Their philosophy is when Kṛṣṇa comes, when God comes, He takes a material form. No, that's not right. Kṛṣṇa says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā, the ātma-māyayā means cit potency. These Māyāvādī philosophers they have no information that cit potency. That is ahlādinī śakti, that is Rādhārāṇī. They have got experience of this material potency. External energy. Durgā. But they have no information of the cit potency. Therefore, they think that Kṛṣṇa appears in the form of māyā. Just like we have got this body, material body, this is gift by the māyā.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya

*sad*-asad-janma-yoniṣu

[Bg. 13.22]



Kāraṇam. We are getting this body according to our association with the different modes of material nature. But Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with this material nature. Material nature is controlled by Him, and we are controlled by the material nature. That is the difference. He is controller, and you are controlled. They do not understand. They think that if I make null and void these conditions of controlling, then I become uncontrolled.



*Just like the philosophy voidism, or suicidism. I am feeling some pain in my body. So if I think that let me commit suicide, then the pain will go away automatically. That is void philosophy. The killing one*-self, ātma hā. But because they have no understanding that killing this body does not mean killing yourself. That is their ignorance. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So these rascal think if I suicide, if I commit suicide, and just have a knife on my throat, then all my pains and pleasures are finished. No, that is not... He will be put into more pains and pleasure. Sometimes we'll have to accept, why accept, it is certain, the ghostly body. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you, or māyā has given, māyā has given under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, a certain type of body for enjoying for a certain span of life, you cannot finish it. If you disregard it, then, if you commit suicide, the result will be that you will not be allowed to accept another material body. You will have to remain in that subtle body. That is ghost. Ghostly life means one who has misused this life, this body, and by his whims he has killed this body. He becomes ghost. That means he will have to suffer for so many day, then he'll get another material body.

*Therefore there is śraddhā ceremony. The śraddhā ceremony means, supposing my father or my relative has not got, yet, again gross body, this śraddhā ceremony will help him to get another gross (body). Because without this gross body, the ghostly body is very troublesome, because he wants to enjoy something, but he has no instrument to enjoy. Therefore he creates, the ghost creates trouble. Sometimes captures some body to fulfill his desires, and the man becomes ghostly haunted. There are so many subtle sciences. What do they know, these so*-called scientists? They're simply falsely proud, taking account of this small duration of life, for ten to twenty years, fifty years, or at most hundred years, that's all. They do not know. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. And still they're becoming guide, they're becoming swamis, they're becoming gurus, they're becoming fathers, they're becoming government. How people can be happy? Everyone is andhā, blind. They have no jñāna, no knowledge, and misleading only. So the, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. You can have unlimited ānanda, but because you are falsely trying to enjoy through this material body, therefore you are becoming confused and frustrated. That they do not know. They think, "I have got this material body, I have got some senses, let me enjoy the senses to the best possibility." But you cannot do it, because it is false, it is not real. Real senses, unless you feel sensation, that sensation, consciousness is there because the spirit soul is there. Otherwise there is no sensation, and unless you feel sensation, there is no enjoyment.

*So this bodily enjoyment is false, real enjoyment (is) of the spirit. Therefore it is said, ramante yoginaḥ anante. They want to enjoy life with Ananta, Kṛṣṇa. They want to become friend of Kṛṣṇa. They want to become lover of Kṛṣṇa. They want to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. They want to become father of Kṛṣṇa. They want to become māyā of Kṛṣṇa. The same thing, as we are pervertedly enjoying in this material, the same thing is there (in) spiritual life. That is Kṛṣṇa exhibiting. When He appears on this earth, He practically shows how you can enjoy also with Him. That is Vṛndāvana līlā. Practical manifestation. But we are not taking to that. We are taking this Vṛndāvana līlā of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is māyā, Vṛndāvana is laya. Now simply place your nose and thinks of something impersonal, that is perfection. No? That is not. This is fact, ramante, unless you are many varieties, there cannot be enjoyment. Ramante yoginaḥ anante. Ramante, this very word, one who is engaged, he is called iti rāma*-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. This is the meaning of Rāma. Rāma, Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā-Rāmaṇa, Rādhā-Mādhava.

*So this science has to be understood. We are, everyone is after happiness, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). We are spiritual soul, spiritual spark. Our life is ānanda. Sac-cid-ānanda. Eternal life, blissful life, life of knowledge. But we are put into this material condition which is ignorance, miserable and temporary. Just opposite. Instead of having eternal, blissful, knowledgeable life, we have got this body which is non-eternal, non-permanent, and always miserable in condition, and not blissful. Always miserable and always in ignorance. Just the opposite. So Kṛṣṇa is not like that. If we think of Kṛṣṇa like that, then it is a mistake. That Māyāvādī philosopher, they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa like that, that Kṛṣṇa is like me. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. They are rascals, mūḍha. They are thinking there is something above Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are mūḍhas. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because they have no knowledge, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know the paraṁ bhāva, the bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, they have no idea, they have no knowledge. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, therefore, giving them the real knowledge. Kṛṣṇa, how He's enjoying. His, how He's joyful. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37].

*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya...

[Bs. 5.32]



*Ānanda sad*-ujjvala-vigraha. It is not ordinary vigraha like this. They have got bitter experience of this vigraha, of this form, therefore they want to make God impersonal. Must be opposite. They have got this bitter knowledge that getting this body, we are suffering so much. Therefore, the God must be without body. Just opposite. This is also material thinking. Thinking in a negative way. But they have no knowledge, that if God has body, but that is completely spiritual. It has nothing to do with the material body. They cannot think of spiritual body. So the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu is teaching people how you can enjoy in the ocean of blissfulness. That is bhaktir avatāra. So Rūpa Gosvāmī is dividing. Just like the sea has got east, west, north, south, similarly, he is dividing the ocean of nectarine in four divisions, and as there are waves in the ocean, so there are different chapters. That means he's dividing the Bhakti-rasāmṛta book in four parts, and in each part there are different chapters. That is the conclusion. Go on.



Pradyumna: "In the first part there are four waves, the first being a general description of devotional service."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The first part of Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, the first wave is, "What is the meaning of bhakti?" "What do you mean by bhakti?" It is very scientific book. First of all, he will explain, "What do you mean by bhakti?" Then?



Pradyumna: "The second concerns the regulative principles for executing devotional service."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because as soon as you know the business, then you can chalk out your activities. If you do not know what is the business, then how you can work? That is second wave. Then?



Pradyumna: "And the third wave, devotional service in ecstasy."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, when you become expert in devotional service, then you come to the spiritual platform. You will feel ecstasy. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. Otherwise how you get enthusiasm? That is the test. That is the test, that the material platform, you are working, you will feel tired, and you will try to retire from it. But the spiritual platform is, as you are engaged in spiritual activities, or devotional service, you become cleansed. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ [SB 1.2.20]. Prasanna-mana. As you prolong, execute devotional service, bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, prasanna-manaso, you become jolly, because that is your nature. At the present moment, although I am spirit soul, my nature is to become jolly, ānanda, but because I am covered by this material nature, my joyfulness has practically disappeared, or I am trying to enjoy life through this material body. That is my position.



*So, if you engage yourself in devotional service, the first engagement is this śravaṇam, hearing. It is not difficult. You don't have to go anywhere. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Kṛṣṇa is within you. If you kindly hear about Kṛṣṇa, that is the first business, śravaṇam. If you kindly hear about Kṛṣṇa. Unfortunately, even we do not get time to hear about Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is within you. Kṛṣṇa is within you and as soon as Kṛṣṇa sees that now you are very much eager to hear about Him. The first business. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. And the hearing about Kṛṣṇa is puṇya, even if you do not understand, because hearing about Kṛṣṇa means you are hearing the sound Kṛṣṇa. That sound Kṛṣṇa will purify you, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. My Guru Mahārāja, if somebody would write some article, he would hear, he would simply see how many times there is Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya. Then he'll pass, "Yes, it is all right." (laughter) Because, because there are so many times Kṛṣṇa uttered, it is already nice. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*tad*-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

[SB 1.5.11]



*Tad*-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo. That type of literature which is describing Kṛṣṇa, nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat. Yatra, in which, in that literature where simply there is glorification of the ananta, the Supreme Lord. Not dry philosophy, simply jugglery of words. That is garbage. So that cannot, that kind of literature. Any literature, simply, simply trying to describe the glories of the ananta. Yaśo aṅki, yaśaḥ aṅkitāni yat śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ. Those who are sādhu, those who are devotees, they hear that literature. They hear that literature. Otherwise, another, the next verse, I forget now. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham, it has been described, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā [SB 1.5.10]. So this kind of literature, even it is not properly, grammatically correct, tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam, abaddha [SB 1.5.11]. That, writing Sanskrit śloka, it requires very high education. It is not that whatever I write, three miles, one line, two lines, no. There is some metric system, canda, so saita (?). So the, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, even it is not properly composed, but because there is anantasya, anantasya guṇani, the glorification ananta, the Supreme, śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ. Those who are sādhus, actually, they accept it. It doesn't matter if there is little grammatical mistake or some poetical discrepancies. There are literary rules and regulation. So śāstra says, it doesn't matter, even there is not perfectly, Śaṅkarācārya also says, na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛṅ-kāraṇe. You cannot be saved by simply grammatical efficiency. No. The grammatical efficiency is secondary. Real thing is how much you are feeling for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat śṛṇvanti gṛṇanti gāyanti sādhavaḥ.



*So śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If we are sincerely hearing about Kṛṣṇa, this very first qualification, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. This society, we are holding classes, just to give opportunity to the people. We are not professional, that you come here and pay, then we continue, otherwise we stop. No. Our business is to distribute the glories of the Lord. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Therefore it is recommended, satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido [SB 3.25.25]. In sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means association of the devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ. Just contrary to this, avaiṣṇava mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam. Those who are not vaiṣṇava, those who are not devotees, one should not hear from them. It is useless. It is useless, waste of time. Śravaṇaṁ na kartavyaṁ sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk touched by the lips of a serpent is poison. You cannot say it is milk, very nice. No. Because it is touched by the lips of the serpent it is useless. Similarly, as soon as a professional reciter or a avaiṣṇava reciter, without any realization, without being a devotee of the Lord cites, recites, that should not be heard. That is restricted by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Avaiṣṇava mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam. Because you'll not derive any benefit. You go on hearing for thousand of years. Thousands of years, still you'll remain where you were in the beginning. But satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. So this kathāḥ, hari-kathāḥ, kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ should be heard from devotees, in the association of devotees. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ, then Kṛṣṇa will help. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent, more intelligent than you. So He knows our heart, what for I am hearing, then He will help us.

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogam...

[Bg. 10.10]



*Kṛṣṇa is there. You haven't got to search out Kṛṣṇa. He is already within you. Simply He wants to see whether you are sincere. That's all. You cannot deceive, you cannot deceive Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa. He is always present. Anumantā, upadraṣṭā. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, He is upadraṣṭā. So śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. If you simply hear about Kṛṣṇa from the lips of pure devotees, then it is puṇya. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. It will cleanse your heart. It will cleanse your heart.



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi...

[SB 1.2.17]



*We have got many dirty things within our heart. Kṛṣṇa will cleanse. Kṛṣṇa is within there. Then Kṛṣṇa will personally cleanse. Then everything will be clear. Everything will be clear. You will understand. So it requires little willingness. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. This statement was given by Brahmā, and when it was quoted by Rāmānanda Rāya before Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He accepted. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. You can remain your position. Don't, you don't require to change your position. Not that you have to give up your household life, you have to accept sannyāsa, or you have to do this, the other. No. Remain in your position. But, but try to hear from the proper source, and try to understand. That will make you so strong that, Kṛṣṇa is ajita, unconquerable, but you will conquer Him. You will conquer Him. Ajito 'pi, jito 'py asi, He becomes conquered. Because...



Kṛṣṇa cannot be conquered by anyone, by the demons, but he can be conquered by a devotee. Just like Yaśodāmāyī, he has conquered Kṛṣṇa. The whole world is trembled by Kṛṣṇa's prowess, but Kṛṣṇa is trembling before Yaśodāmāyī, or the stick. So He wants to be controlled, because everyone is praying, "My dear Lord, oh, you're so great." Everyone prays like that, but no one shows his stick. (laughter) But He wants, because that is also enjoyment. So sometimes He is disappointed that nobody wants Me to show his stick. Therefore He finds out such a devotee who can show Him stick. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. So you can become mother of Kṛṣṇa, or you can become father of Kṛṣṇa. What is to become one with Kṛṣṇa? You become father of Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādīs they want to merge into the Supreme, but we want to become father of Kṛṣṇa. Why merge? More than Kṛṣṇa. The devotee can beget Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa accepts that. Yes, I shall become your child. I shall be controlled by your stick.

*So they are not ordinary. We should not think like that. The ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāva. That is Kṛṣṇa's expansion of pleasure potency. Kṛṣṇa wants to be controlled by Yaśodāmāyī. Kṛṣṇa wants to be defeated by His friends. Kṛṣṇa wants to be refused Rādhārāṇī's darśana. Yes. Rādhārāṇī is angry, she has refused, she has ordered the sakhis, "Don't allow Kṛṣṇa to come here!" Yes. Kṛṣṇa is flattering. (laughter) "Kindly let Me go." "No sir, you cannot go." This is Kṛṣṇa. You see. But at the same time, gopī-jana-vallabha. Jaya śrī-rādhā-mādhava gopī-jana-vallabha. Kṛṣṇa is, that is Kṛṣṇa's actual life. He is gopī-jana-vallabha, He is rādha-mādhava, He is giri-vara-dhārī. As soon as the gopīs and the cowherd boys in distress, He will uplift this hill, Govardhana, giri-vara-dhārī. That is Kṛṣṇa's life. As the gopīs, and the cowherds boy, and the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they have sacrificed everything, they do not know anything but Kṛṣṇa, similarly, Kṛṣṇa also does not know anything beyond Vṛndāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, ocean of blissful life.

Thank you very much. (end)



730111ND.BOM

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Bombay, January 11, 1973



*Pradyumna: (reading:) "...bhakti, or devotional service, following in the footsteps of previous ācāryas, can be summarized in the following statement by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī: 'First*-class devotional service is known by one's tendency to be fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, serving the Lord favorably.' "



*Prabhupāda: Hmmm. Serving the Lord favorably. Not whimsically. Favorably. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This is the exact word, ānukūla. Ānukūla means favorably, "What I want, you shall do." That is favorable. I want something and you do something else, that is not favorable. Favorable means what Kṛṣṇa wants, you do that. So to come to this understanding, preliminarily... Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, or God, at the present stage, in our material condition of life. Material condition means forgetting our relationship with God. That is material condition. The, this is... Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means illusion, which has no existence, hallucination. The same thing as we see tiger when dreaming and crying: "Oh, here is tiger! Save me! Save me!" So this is called... This is the example of hallucination. There are many others. Just like water in the desert. Sometimes there is, due to reflection of the sun, it appears there is vast mass of water, and the animals, they go after it, the water. These are the, some of the examples of hallucination, illusion. So this hal... To be in the stage of hallucination, illusion, that is called māyā. This is called māyā. Mā*-yā. Mā means "not"; yā means "this."



*So we are in this condition now, in māyā. We can practically experience. I have several times explained. Just like while we are asleep we forget everything of our day's life, and during daytime, we forget everything, what we saw in dream. So these two stages... So this is also dream, this is also dream, and I am observer of the dream. Therefore I am the fact, and this is illusion. Both the conditions. So therefore the question arises: "Then what I am?" That is called brahma*-jijñāsā. Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu to ask this question, "What I am?" And in, any intelligent man can understand that "I am simply dreaming. At night, I am dreaming something, forgetting night's dream, uh, day's dream. And in day, daytime, I am dreaming something. I am forget the night's dream. So actually both of them are dreams, and I am the observer. Then what I am?" This is the question. Athāto brahma jijñāsā This is the beginning of Vedānta-sūtra. One should be inquisitive. Unless one comes to this point of inquiring about himself, then what I am? Why I am dreaming this daytime and nighttime? What is my actual position? This is human life. When one comes to this point of inquiring, "What I am?" that is the beginning of human life. Otherwise animal life. The animals, they do not know what I am, neither this question comes to them, "What I am?" He's thinking, "I am dog," "I am cat," "I am ass," "I am tiger," "I am this and that." Similarly, if we simply think like that, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this," "I am that," that is animal life. That is animal life. When you come to this point, understanding, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā... Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā naś ceha yat karmabhiḥ. Kāmasya na, na indriya-prītiḥ, jīveta yāvatā. This is the Bhāgavata philosophy. People are working very hard. Animal also working very hard, but in the human society there are four principles: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa: [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90] religious life, then economic development, then sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. This is human life. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. The religious life you cannot find in animal society. In the human society, either he may be Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddha, Jews, anything, there is a kind of religious principles.

*So that is the beginning of human life*-religion, dharma. Then generally, because we are in the bodily concept of life, therefore economic development: "I want money. I want comfortable position, comfortable situation, so that I can eat, drink, sleep nicely." This is called economic development. So dharma, artha... Then why I don't, why I want economic development? Now kāma. Because I have got my senses, I have to gratify it. I'll gratify my senses. When my children grow up, I also give them chance to gratify their senses. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So we think by sense gratification we shall be happy. That is called kāma. And when we are dissatisfied or frustrated by this process of sense gratification, economic development, then we give up. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This is all false. Now I shall merge into Brahman." This mokṣa. But Bhāgavata says this is not life. This is not life. What is that verse? Dharmasya... Dharmaikāntasya. You have got the First...? Yes. Nārthāya upakalpate. Na artha... Dharma does not mean... People take to religious life for economic development. That... They think that by... That is also fact. So... But Bhāgavata says that the religious life does not mean economic development. Economic development does not mean to satisfy your senses. Then what shall I do? My... I've got my senses. There is demand of satisfaction for the senses. What shall I do? Therefore Bhāgavata says, kāmasya nendriya-prītir jīveta yāvatā [SB 1.2.10]. Kāmasya... Just like you have to eat. That is the demand of your body. But don't manufacture varieties of menus. Eat only to live, not to live to eat. They have made it a point not to eat for living, but they're living for eating. Therefore Bhāgavata says, kāmasya nendriya-prītir [SB 1.2.10]. Our indriya-prītir, our sense gratification, is eating, sleeping, sex life and defending. That is our indriya-prītir. So Bhāgavata says, "Yes, you're allowed to satisfy your senses so that you can keep fit yourself so, to execute higher procedure of life." And what is that higher procedure of life? That higher procedure of life is jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That tattva-jijñāsā, "What I am?" For this purpose, you shall eat, you shall sleep, you shall satisfy your senses. You should defend yourself. To fulfill this mission of life, to understand what I am. Otherwise the animals are also doing that. Indriya-prītir.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was approached by Sanātana Gosvāmī. They were ministers in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah, in Bengal. In those times there was a Pathan government, and they were responsible ministers. One was chief minister, one was finance minister. Very responsible post, Rūpa Gosvāmī. And they almost became Muhammadans. Because formerly the brahminical society was very strict. If any brāhmaṇa accepts service of another person... Generally kṣatriyas. And he, they were Muslims. So they were, I mean to say, rejected from brāhmaṇa society, and they changed their name also. Almost they became Muhammadans. Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa*-both the brothers, Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī. And they met Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then they decided to resign from the government post and join this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not new. It, it, it is continuing, it is going on since Kṛṣṇa appeared. And later on, five hundred years ago, Caitanya Mahāprabhu revived it, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. So when they met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, both the brothers decided that "Now we shall join Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. It is very nice movement." So, after resigning their posts, Rūpa Gosvāmī stealthily left the country and Sanātana Gosvāmī was situated. He formally wanted to resign the post, but the Nawab would not allow him to resign; therefore he was arrested. And somehow or other, he managed to come out of the prison and then join Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares.

*So when he met, there was discussion of life's..., value of life between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Sanātana Gosvāmī. So Sanātana Gosvāmī first of all questioned this, that grāmya*-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita satya kari māni. "Now the ordinary few friends, my countrymen, they consider me, I am very learned scholar." He was very learned scholar actually. He was great scholar in Sanskrit and in Arabi, Arabic language and Persian language. Because in those days there were Muhammadan kingdom. So actually they were very learned scholars, from... Because we understand from their writings, later on, after becoming disciples of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So actually they were paṇḍita, learned scholars, brāhmaṇa, and learned scholar. But he was asking that grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita satya kari māni: "These people, my neighboring friends, they call me as learned scholar. And actually I accept that I am scholar, I am learned paṇḍita. But I do not know what I am. This is my position. I am paṇḍita. They call me paṇḍita, learned scholar, and I accept it. But actually I do not know what I am. I am such a paṇḍita." So this is the position. You call any person, any scientist, any philosopher, any politician, any minister, at the present moment, and ask him: "What you are?" he'll fail to answer. He'll say, "Yes, I am Mr. such and such," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am minister." He'll say like that. This question was discussed with a great professor in Moscow. He said, "Swamijī, after finishing this body, everything's finished, what I am. That's all." This is the position. But actually that is not. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī first of all inquired this question, grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita. "Ordinary behavior, my neighbors, they call me very learned scholar, but I am such a scholar that I do not know what I am." Ke āmi kene more jare tāpa... Why I am put into this miserable condition of life-birth, death and disease and old age? And threefold miseries-ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika? And the whole struggle is to minimize our miserable condition of life. The struggle is going on, whole day: work, day and night. What is the purpose? Ātyantika duḥkha nivṛtti. To minimize our miserable condition of life. So why I am put into this miserable condition of life although I do not know, I do not want it? So what I am? What is my position? That is Bhāgavata decision. The, you don't forget yourself by simply satisfying your senses. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir [SB 1.2.10]. Don't be satisfied simply when you see that your senses are satisfied. No. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. One should be forward to understand what he actually is. The same, same story, that I am simply seeing dreams, day and night. I am seeing, that's a fact. Law of identity, I am. Then what I am? I'm simply seeing these dreams? What is my actual life? That is tattva-jijñāsā. What is that? Read it. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167].

*So when we go deep into the matter, to inquire about ourself, what is my position, then we come to this understanding, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed to Sanātana Gosvāmī: jīvera svarūpa haya nityera kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. That we have forgotten. Our constitutional position is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is our position. So as soon as we come to this position... The Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu begins from this point. When a living entity, when a person comes to the understanding, without any doubt, that he's eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, then his real life begins. Unless he understands this point, he's still in the hallucination of animal life. Jīvera svarūpa haya nityera kṛṣṇa dāsa. Actually we are engaged as servant always. Here, everyone who are sitting here, every one of us, servant: servant of the society, servant of the family, servant of the community, servant of the country, servant of the nation. In this way, we are servant. That's a fact. And we are serving. Everyone is serving. Nobody is actually enjoying; everyone is servant. That is the constitutional position of living entity. But they are serving hallucination. They are not serving the real fact. The constitutional portion is going on. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Therefore one brāhmaṇa, he approached the Supreme Personality of Godhead that "I have served the whole of my life..." Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. Serving means we are serving the society, country, family, the... The essence is I am ser..., not serving; *I am satisfying my sense gratification. But I am pushing on this sense gratification in the name of service. A man is working whole, whole day and night to maintain his family, considering himself that he is the master of the family. But he's the, actually he's the servant of the family. That is his real position. And servant of the family means he's servant of his senses. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor du... [SB 7.9.45]. They are, their happiness is that sex life. For enjoy that sex life, they are working so hard, day and night. Therefore he's neither serving the society, community, family, but he's serving his sense gratification. That's all. This is their service.

*Therefore the Avantīpura brāhmaṇa says that kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ: "My dear Lord, I have served my senses so abominably. I should not have served in that way. Still I have done." Just like sometimes we commit so many criminal activities to satisfy our senses, because we want money. So pālitā durnideśāḥ. My conscience says, "You don't do it." But, because I want to enjoy my senses, I must do it. I must do it. A thief knows that "If I steal, I, then I'll be punished." He has heard from śāstra, or he has known the state laws, that, if one commits theft, he's punished. He knows it. And he has seen it, that one man has stolen, or committed theft, he's arrested, taken by the police. He has seen it. But still he commits theft. Why? Why? Therefore it is a... That is my... I become habituated to serve the process of sense gratification in such low grade that what is not to be done, I still do it. Therefore he says, kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ, teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā. But anyone who serves for somebody, ask him: "Whether you are satisfied? I have served you so much." They'll never say. Just like... Take the example-I've given this example many times*-that who can serve his country than Mahatma Gandhi better? Nobody. But still he was shot dead. Still he was shot dead. His service was not acknowledged, recognized. Otherwise how he shot dead? There are so many cases. So many cases.

*So this world, however faithfully you give service, it will be never recognized*-because it is hallucination, illusion. You are serving your senses. You are not serving any person. You are serving your senses. So when one comes to this position, he understands that "I am actually servant, but I am posing myself falsely as master." That is real sense. Then whose servant I am? I am Kṛṣṇa's servant. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and demands: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We have forgotten that. We have forgotten Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's service. That is māyā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes again and again as Himself, as a devotee, or he sends His servitors, His Vaiṣṇava, to preach this cult, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Educate people to serve Kṛṣṇa, to serve Me." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. We are also preaching this cult, that "You serve Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We are preaching this cult. So we are not manufacture anything. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing concocted. It is fact. Everyone is servant, but at the present moment he's serving māyā. So, instead of serving māyā, let him serve Kṛṣṇa, the original Personality of Godhead. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

So that service, when one agrees to serve Kṛṣṇa... Because nobody's agreeable to serve Kṛṣṇa. They will... Kṛṣṇa personally came, canvassed. How many people are serving Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. "Oh, it is too much. Kṛṣṇa is asking that 'Give up everything and serve un..., unto Him.' It is too much." People are taking, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā, because they are mūḍhas. They are thinking, "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? I shall serve dog. I shall keep a dog and take him in the street. As soon as he stands, I shall stand. As soon as he passes urine..." (laughter) That is the position. If you don't serve God, then you have to serve god, dog, māyā. You cannot be, become without service. That is not possible. That is not possi... You must have to serve somebody. But you'll not be satisfied. By such service, you'll ne... The, the master whom you are serving, he will never be satisfied, neither you'll be satisfied. But if you serve actually the Supreme Master, Kṛṣṇa, He will be satisfied and you will be satisfied.

patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

*tad ahaṁ bhakty*-upahṛtam

aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ

[Bg. 9.26]



Kṛṣṇa says that "You simply try to serve Me. Offer Me little water, little flower, little leaf." Anyone. Universal. Anyone can collect little water, little flower or little leaf and offer to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to accept your service in that way. What ms the difficulty to serve Kṛṣṇa? But they will not do. This is māyā.



*So one has to make his determination. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This bhakti... Ānukūlyena means Kṛṣṇa wants. You serve. You supply. This is ānukūla. Now He says, Kṛṣṇa: man*-manā bhava mad-bhakta. Now you become always engaged in thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare... That is man-manā, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Because thinking of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, as soon as you remember Kṛṣṇa, that means Kṛṣṇa is on your tongue, dancing. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... Abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. Therefore by constant company with Kṛṣṇa, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you simply hear about Kṛṣṇa, then you become pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa. Simply by hearing, you become pious. You haven't got to arrange for great, great sacrifices, tons of ghees. No. Simply by hearing Kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ, you'll be purified. These are the statements of great personalities, Caitanya Mahāprabhu:

*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*paraṁ vijayate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*Śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana is so nice that Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Why don't you become, always think of Kṛṣṇa? Where is the loss? If you are walking on the street or going on bus or on your car, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, what is your heavy loss? Is there any loss? Why don't you do it? Try it. There is no loss. And if there is any gain, why don't you try it? For nothing, without any loss. These Europeans and American boys, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are more enlightened, so far material civilization is concerned. But in their country, almost all young men, as a hobby, they have taken a bead and chanting. Our, the George Harrison, the famous Beatle, he is supplying beads and bags to his friends: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And he has written in his record that "Anyone who is friend of Kṛṣṇa, I am his friend." What he has written?



Gurukṛpā: "Any friend of Kṛṣṇa is friend of mine."



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Gurukṛpā: "Any friend of Kṛṣṇa is friend of mine."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway... So we Indians, why you are over gentlemen? They're also gentlemen, they're also Europeans. But why you are afraid, why you are ashamed to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra even on walking, even going on...? What is the harm? This is the purpose of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra movement, that anyone can chant. A child can chant. A old man can chant. A rich man can chant. A poor man can chant. There is no tax. But see the result. See the result. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



This is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, that "Always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." The śāstra says,



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*In this age, especially, we cannot execute any other process of religious method. This is... We can, but at the present moment, it is very difficult. The best things is, as it is recommended in the Bṛhan*-nāradīya Purāṇa-many other purāṇas also, in Upaniṣad,



hare nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*And in the Bhagavad*-gītā also you'll find,



satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

*yatatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca

[Bg. 9.14]



*Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām. Anyone who is chanting, he's mahātmā. He's mahātmā. Chanting. So these, these boys, although they're very young, but because they're chanting, always, they're mahātmās. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya*-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So this is the process in this age. You can chant. There is no loss, but there is much gain. Why don't you try it?



*So that is called bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Favorably. Kṛṣṇa says that "You become always thinking of Me." Man*-manā. So you think of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. That is ānukūla. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. Kṛṣṇa says, and we carry out the order, just like Arjuna did. Kṛṣṇa said that "You kill. I want. The other party must be killed." He, first of all, he hesitated: "How can I kill my grandfather and nephews, my brothers, the other side? No, I cannot," when he was bodily conscious. But when he understood Kṛṣṇa's Bhagavad-gītā, he said, kariṣye vacanam: "Yes, I shall do it." That is ānukūla. That is ānukūla. In the beginning, he was becoming very good gentlemen, nonviolent, but Kṛṣṇa chastised him:

kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ

viṣame samupasthitam

*anārya*-juṣṭam asvargyam

*akīrti*-karam (arjuna)

[Bg. 2.2]



"Oh, you are proposing something which is the action of the anārya, not of the Aryans. So give up this klaibhyam, this deficiency, defect or..." What is called?



Devotee: Weakness.



*Prabhupāda: "...weakness, weakness of your heart. Give it up." So then when he became His śiṣya, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7], at that time, as his śiṣya, He immediately chastised him: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like a very learned man, but you do not know what is learning. You do not know."



aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



"This is not talk of the paṇḍita. Just learn what is paṇḍitaḥ, how..." Then, then when He began to teach him how to become paṇḍita, the first instruction was,



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntaraṁ*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



Asmin dehe, within this body, there is the soul. This is the beginning of spiritual understanding. How many people know? They do not know it. They think that "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am..."



*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific movement, authorized movement, and there is a vast philosophy. We have published them, twenty big, big books, we have published. So our only request is that you all consciousness people, advanced, educated persons, they should try to understand this movement as it is and join, make his life successful and teach others also. People are suffering for want of this knowledge, and they are being misled by so many rascals. Dehātma*-buddhiḥ. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. In the Bhāgavata it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninas [SB 7.5.31]. These people, they do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. Na te viduḥ. They do not know. The ultimate goal of life is to go back to home, back to Godhead. That, they do, actually do not know. They do not know even what is God, and what the question of going back to Him, back to home, back to Godhead? They do not know everything, anything. There is God, there is home of God. As we say, generally, we give you the name of God, His address, His father's name-everything-but they will not accept it. "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God. God is loitering in the street." This is their theory. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. The blind men are led by blind leaders. So we should not follow like that way. If we actually want success of life, then we must be Kṛṣṇa conscious. We must follow the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. We must follow. If you want success of life, everything is there, whatever you want.

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



Whatever you want, you'll get. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11].



*So Kṛṣṇa... Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. Kṛṣṇa is giving assurance. There are so many things that, by understanding Kṛṣṇa, simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you, your life is successful. The life, success of life is to stop this repetition of birth and death. That we also do not know. There is repetition of birth and death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning, asmin dehe dehi. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Those who are actually educated, sober, they can understand that, that "Here is a man who's supposed to be dead, but he's not dead. He has transferred this body. That's all." Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. As I am transferring my body from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, youthhood to old body, similarly, as I have changed so many bodies, where is the difficulty to understand that after giving up this body, I'll get another body? And Kṛṣṇa is confirming. All the Vedic literature confirming: tathā dehāntara-prāptir. Another body. But we must know what kind of body I'm going to get. That is intelligence. Body, you must have to accept. As you have changed, as you accepted so many bodies, even in this life, then you have to accept another body. Now there are 8,400,000's of bodies. That you see. There are aquatic bodies, there are tree's bodies, plant's bodies, insect body, bird's body, beast's body-so many bodies. Eight million, four hun ... So Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. He does not say what kind of body you'll get; *He says dehāntaram. You'll get another body. So how that body, you'll have to make? That is in your hand in this life. You can prepare your next body in this body, just like you can prepare your future life in your youthhood by education, by culture. Then you can get a very nice post, very nice position, honored in the society. But if you spoil your life in childhood and youthhood, then you have no position in future life. Similarly, if you want to get next body, very nice, valuable body, so you prepare for that. You prepare for that. And how the preparation goes? That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*So you can prepare. If you want to go to the higher planetary system, you can worship demigods. The Candra, the Moon planet, you are trying to go there. In this way you cannot go. But if you prepare in this life how to be promoted in the Moon planet or sun planet or heavenly planet, then you prepare yourself. Yānti... Not by force. You cannot go by your teeny sputnik and enter into the sun planet. That is not possible. You have to prepare yourself in this life. Yānti deva*-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. This is the injunction. But Kṛṣṇa also says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, the highest planet of this universe, still you have to come back again. Mad dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. Therefore a, a sane person should try in this life how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the highest perfection of life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Take advantage of this movement and be happy.



Thank you very much. (end)



721029ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 29, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading) "...may be divided into two classes: one class may be for achieving a certain goal, and the other may be for avoiding some unfavorable circumstances. In Sanskrit these activities are called pravṛtti and nirvṛtti, positive and negative action. There are many examples of negative action. For example, a diseased person has to be cautious and take medicine in order to avoid some unfavorable illness. Those who are cultivating spiritual life and executing devotional service are always engaged in activity. Such activity can be performed with the mind or with the, with the body or with the mind. Thinking, feeling and willing are all activities of the mind, and when we will do something, the activity comes to be manifest by the gross bodily senses. Thus, in our mental activities, we should always try to think of Kṛṣṇa and try to plan how to please Him, following in the footsteps of the great ācāryas and the personal spiritual master. There are activities of the body, activities of the different senses, and activities of speech. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person engages his words in preaching the glories of the Lord. This is called kīrtana. And by his mind a Kṛṣṇa conscious person always thinks of the activities of the Lord as He is speaking on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra or engaging in His various pastimes at Vṛndāvana with His devotees. In this way, one can always think of the activities and pastimes of the Lord. This is the mental culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not inactivity. This we have discussed yesterday. Actually the activity is being influenced by the soul. But it is being expressed through intelligence, mind and body. The activities are coming from the spiritual platform, but because it is now contaminated by the material coverings, the activities are not very adjusted. Diseased activities. The thinking, feeling, and willing... This thinking, feeling, and willing now polluted on account of material coverings. Therefore we have to revert to the thinking, feeling, and willing by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As it is explained here, that we shall always think of Kṛṣṇa's activities, we shall always feel for satisfying Kṛṣṇa, and we shall always will to enact as He desires.



*The same feeling... Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has given us two formulas how to become Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or how to remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So one formula is that anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. You should not be attached to the viṣayas. Just like we have got a tendency to construct a skyscraper building. As in your country, you do. So you should not attached to the skyscraper building, but you can utilize the tendency by constructing a big temple like skyscraper for Kṛṣṇa. In this way, you have to purify your material activities.

*Actually in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is nothing material. I have several times explained. Material activities means activities without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is material activity. Just like we are speaking through this microphone. We do not reject it as material. We take it as spiritual. Because it is being used in spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. Yathā arhati, as it deserves. Because this microphone is made of material elements, earth, water, fire, air... But this, if we remember that these material energies, earth, water, air, fire, sky, even mind, intelligence, ego... Prakṛti me, prakṛti me bhinnā aṣṭadhā. They're also energies of Kṛṣṇa. They're not separate from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore if Kṛṣṇa is spirit, then these so*-called material elements, they are also spirit. But it is used as material because we do not remember the relationship of these material elements with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the conclusion is when we are forgetful of Kṛṣṇa, then it is material. Otherwise, there is nothing as material. Everything is spiritual. Because brāhmaṇaḥ śakti.

*It is described in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Eka*-deśa sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, sarvedaṁ brahmaṇaḥ śakti... I just don't remember the whole verse. So everything, this is śakti-pariṇāma-vāda. Śakti-pariṇāma-vāda. Everything... Sarvaṁ khalu idaṁ brahma. Everything that we experience, that is manifestation of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Brahmaṇaḥ śakti. Śakti and śaktimān, they are not different. So if we accept everything as expansion of brahmaṇaḥ śakti, energy of Kṛṣṇa, and utilize it for Kṛṣṇa, then there is nothing, such thing as material. Everything becomes spiritual. So if we think in that way, thinking, feeling, and willing, if we utilize our psychological activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we keep steady in attached with Kṛṣṇa. Yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Vairāgya means renunciation. We do not require to renounce anything, provided we see everything dovetailed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Similarly, we can offer many services with our bodily activities, but all such activities must be in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. This relationship is established by connecting oneself with the bona fide spiritual master who is the direct representative of Kṛṣṇa in disciplic succession. Therefore the execution of Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities with the body should be directed by the spiritual master and then performed with faith."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We should not manufacture in our own way that: "This is Kṛṣṇa's activity." It must be confirmed by the spiritual master. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has explained in his comment on Bhagavad*-gītā in connection with the verse vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ ekeha kuru-nandana... Vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ, niścayātmikā-buddhiḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that "Whatever order I get from my spiritual master, that is my life and soul. I must execute it thoroughly, without caring for my personal convenience or inconvenience. That is called vyavasāyātmikā-buddhi." Eka. We cannot manufacture anything as Kṛṣṇa conscious activities, but we must be ready always to carry out the order of spiritual master who is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. The spiritual master is recognized as the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād dharitvena. Therefore he should be offered respect as good as to Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. And if we can please our spiritual master, then we please Kṛṣṇa.



*Just... Somebody says that "Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago. He's no longer present. Then how we shall execute Kṛṣṇa's order?" Kṛṣṇa's order can be executed by executing the order of the spiritual master. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **. We cannot disobey. Yasyaprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. This is the process. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta it has been very extensively explained what is the position of the spiritual master. But at the same time, the spiritual master does not accept himself as he's God or Kṛṣṇa like the Māyāvādīs. No. the bona fide spiritual master always thinks of himself as the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayoḥ dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Not that "Because my disciples accept me as good as Kṛṣṇa, and because my disciples offer me respect exactly he offers respect to Kṛṣṇa..." That does not mean I am Kṛṣṇa. I am servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the position. Go on.

Pradyumna: "The connection with the spiritual master is called initiation. From the date of initiation by the spiritual master, the connection between Kṛṣṇa and a person cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness is established. Without initiation by a bona fide spiritual master, the actual connection with Kṛṣṇa consciousness is never performed."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We must connect with the current. Just like you have heated your room with electrical wires, but if you do not touch it with the current going on, then simply electrical heating with not help you. Similarly, initiation is essential. Ādau gurvāśrayam. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī recommends in his Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu for executing proper spiritual life, one must take shelter of the bona fide spiritual master. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Person who is actually interested in uttamam. Uttamam means transcendental. Udgata-tamam. After darkness. This material world is darkness. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. The spiritual world is full of light. Therefore anything spiritual, that is called uttamam. There...



*Kṛṣṇa's another name is Uttama-śloka. Bhagavaty uttama-śloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭikī. Kṛṣṇa does not belong to this material world. Only the fools and rascals, they think of Kṛṣṇa having material body. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Kṛṣṇa is always in His spiritual body, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Similarly, if we establish our bona fide relationship with the spiritual master, representative of Kṛṣṇa, immediately our connection with Kṛṣṇa becomes established. Go on.

Pradyumna: "The cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not material. The Lord has generally three energies, namely, the external energy, the internal energy, and the marginal energy. The living entities are called marginal energy and the material cosmic manifestation is the action of the external or material energy. Then..."



*Prabhupāda: So parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The Supreme Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, has got innumerable, multi*-energies. Out of that, learned scholars, devotees, they have divided the whole energy into three, external, internal, and marginal. So the living entities, they are production of the marginal energy. The living entity is energy, prakṛti. Not the puruṣa. Puruṣa is Kṛṣṇa. We are all prakṛtis, all living entities. Prakṛti means predominated, and puruṣa means predominator. Just like we see, ordinarily, husband and wife, the husband is predominator and the wife is predominated. Although there is no difference between husband and wife. They are one, divided into two. Similarly, prakṛti and puruṣa, they are one. They are not two.



*It is explained by Svarūpa Dāmodara: rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-prakr..., praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api purā deha-bhedo gatau tau. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, They are one. But, although They are one, They bifurcated Themselves as Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. So there is no difference between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā is the superior energy, or spiritual energy. And Kṛṣṇa is the energetic. Similarly, this material world is external energy. Similarly, the living entities, they're marginal energy, between the external and internal energy. The living entities are called marginal energy because the living energy has to act under another energy, that either material energy or spiritual energy. So when the living entity is under spiritual energy, that is his normal condition, and when he's under the material energy, that is his abnormal condition. We should always remember. Material energy means forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. Just like in this material world, everything is there, but it is lacking in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You travel all over the world, you'll see there is profuse arrangement of sense gratification, but there is no arrangement for understanding Kṛṣṇa. This is called material energy. But if you bring in Kṛṣṇa in the so-called material energy, it becomes spiritual energy.

*Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is awakening that spiritual energy of the living entity. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. The mahātmā and durātmā. What is the difference? The difference is the durātmā is under the influence of external energy. Bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. When we are too much engrossed with the concept of bodily life, "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," when we are influenced by the bodily concept of life, that is called material energy. And when we are influenced by the spiritual energy, we always think that "I am servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayoḥ dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir. "I am neither brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya and śūdra or sannyāsī or brahmacārī." This, this is a verse given by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He denies any material designation, and He informs us also that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. When we feel actually that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is our liberation. Hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. This is svarūpa. When you are existing as servant of Kṛṣṇa, then you are mukta, liberated. You haven't got to endeavor separately for becoming free or liberated. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Then there is the spiritual world, which is a manifestation of the internal energy. The living entities who are called marginal energies, energy, perform material activities when acting under the inferior, external energy. And when they engage in activities under the internal, spiritual energy, their activities are called Kṛṣṇa conscious. This means that those who are great souls, or great devotees, do not act under the spell of material energy, but act instead under the protection of the spiritual energy."



*Prabhupāda: Hmm. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. They do not act under the influence... Ordinary persons, they see that "Devotees are acting like us." No. Their activities are under the influence of spiritual energy. It, it, it looks similar like the karmīs, jñānīs, but bhaktas are different from karmīs and jñānīs. Jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. They are not influenced by the tenets of jñāna and karma. They are influenced by activities which can satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Anuśīlanam activities, culture. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. So they are simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa activities. Although it looks similar to the ordinary activities. Therefore they misunderstand. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is fighting and another soldier is fighting the other side. But Arjuna's activities as soldier is devotional service. Because he's trying to please Kṛṣṇa. Other side, they're fighting for their own interest, how to become victorious and take up the kingdom. That was their idea. Here, Arjuna, he did not like to fight, but when he understood that "Kṛṣṇa desires this fighting," he engaged in it. Therefore his fighting was to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not to satisfy his senses. As it is explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, to satisfy one's own senses, that is called kāma, and to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, that is called prema. That is the difference. Go on.



Pradyumna: "Any activities done in devotional service or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness are directly under the control of spiritual energy. In other words, energy is a sort of strength and this strength can be..."



Prabhupāda: This is spiritual energy. Just like Arjuna is fighting. That energy is inspired by Kṛṣṇa. So Arjuna took it, "I must fight. Kṛṣṇa wants it. I must satisfy Kṛṣṇa." This is spiritual energy. Just see. The other party, they are also fighting in the same energy, but they have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is nothing wonderful. Simply you have to divert the energy for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone has got energy, but when it is enacted for one's sense gratification, that is material. And when it is enacted for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual. Try to understand the difference between material and spiritual. Go on.



Pradyumna: "In other words, energy is a sort of strength, and this strength can be spiritualized by the mercy of both the bona fide spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa."



*Prabhupāda: Guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. We have to acquire this energy through the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is within as caitya-guru, and when we are serious He comes out as the spiritual master. Śikṣā-guru, dīkṣā-guru. So there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa manifests Himself externally as śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī..."



Prabhupāda: (Hindi)



Pradyumna: "...Lord Caitanya states that it is a fortunate person who comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. One who is serious about spiritual life is given by Kṛṣṇa the intelligence to come in contact with a bona fide spiritual master, and then, by the grace of the spiritual master, one becomes advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the statement in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta.



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*We are wandering in different species of life in different planets. Brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. Not all, fortunate. One must be very much fortunate to come in contact with Kṛṣṇa and guru. So how that fortunate becomes possible? It is called ajñāta*-sukṛti. Sukṛti and duṣkṛti, these two words are used in Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. There is the word, duṣkṛti. And sukṛti. Catur-vidhā bhajanti māṁ sukṛti 'rjuna. So this sukṛti, this fortune, there is a chance which is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti means just like Kṛṣṇa's representative is preaching all over the world, and if somebody comes in contact with that representative of Kṛṣṇa, and satisfies him, he acquires some ajñāta-sukṛti. This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. He does not know what spiritual benefit he's achieving by serving the representative of Kṛṣṇa. He does not know. But he acquires it imperceptibly. This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. So when ajñāta-sukṛti is accumulated, then he becomes fortunate. That is called kono bhāgyavān jīva.



Just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing about the cowherd boys who were playing with Kṛṣṇa.

*itthaṁ (satāṁ) brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nāra*-dārakeṇa

*sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



*Kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ. These boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boys, they are not ordinary boys. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says. They are kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. For many, many lives, they accumulated their pious activities and thus now they have got the association of Kṛṣṇa to play with Him. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Similarly, these ajñāta-sukṛti, when they are accumulated... Just like you deposit in the bank, four annas, two annas. In this way, one day it becomes one hundred rupees. Similarly, these ajñāta-sukṛti, when they're accumulated, that makes the fortune of a person to associate with guru and Kṛṣṇa.



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



mālī hañā sei bīja kara āropana

*śravaṇa*-kīrtana-jale karaye...



*So bīja means seed. Bhakti*-latā seed. Bhakti's compared just like a creeper. The creeper does not stand alone. It embraces another tree and then it grows. Similarly, bhakti-latā, bhakti always embraces the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and then grows. Therefore it is called bhakti-latā. So bhakti-latā-bīja. If one is fortunate, by accumulating this imperceptible good activities, by association with devotees, then he gets this bhakti-latā-bīja, the seed of bhakti-latā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, mālī hañā bīja kare āropana. Just like you get some nice seed of rose flower. So if you sow it on the ground, just becoming a nice gardener, and pour water, then it gradually grows. So we have to take the bhakti-latā-bīja from the bona fide spiritual master, and sow it within the heart. Taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani śraddhā bhaktir anukramiṣyati. And pour water. Just like simply sowing the seed is not your business is finished. You have to sow, you have to pour water. So what is that pouring water?



mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropana

*śravaṇa*-kīrtana-jāle karaye secana

[Cc. Madhya 19.152]



*This is the watering, hearing about Kṛṣṇa, chanting about Kṛṣṇa. So you take the bhakti*-latā-bīja from the spiritual master. That is called initiation. And develop it by pouring water of hearing and chanting. Then it will grow. One day it will grow so big that it will penetrate the walls of this universe. It will go to the spiritual world, and gradually go to the Goloka Vṛndāvana and catch up the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and then produce its fruits, and you will enjoy by eating the fruits. Go on. What is the time?



Devotee: Six o'clock Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: All right. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





721030ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 30, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading:) "...Kṛṣṇa we refer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, along with His many expansions. He is expanded by His plenary part and parcels, His differentiated parts and parcels, and His different energies. Kṛṣṇa, in other words, means everything and includes everything. Generally, however, we should understand Kṛṣṇa to mean Kṛṣṇa and His personal expansions. Kṛṣṇa expands Himself as Baladeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Vāsudeva, Aniruddha, Pradyumna, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, and Varāha, as well as many other incarnations and innumerable Viṣṇu expansions. These are described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam to be as numerous as the uncountable waves. So Kṛṣṇa includes all such expansions, as well as His pure devotees. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that Kṛṣṇa's expansions are all complete in eternity, blissfulness, and cognizance. Devotional service means to prosecute Kṛṣṇa conscious activities which are favorable to the transcendental pleasure of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, and any activities which are not favorable to the transcendental favor of the Lord cannot be accepted as devotional service."



*Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa does not mean alone. Kṛṣṇa is not imperson. He's person, and He expands in so many persons. Eko bahu śyām. He is one, but He expands Himself to innumerable forms. The Viṣṇu forms, They are known as svāṁśa. And the servitor forms, the living entities, they are also expansion of Viṣṇu, part and parcel, differentiated, vibhinnāṁśa. So everything*-expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Whatever we see, experience within this world, within this universe, they're simply expansion of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Just like fire has got two energies, heat and light, similarly Kṛṣṇa is expanding by His two energies, the material energy and the spiritual energy. So this material world is expansion of His material energy, and we are marginal We are also energy. We are not energetic. We are not puruṣa. We are prakṛti.



*In the Bhagavad-gītā the living entities have been described as prakṛti. Apareyam itas tu vidhi me prakṛtim parā. After describing the material energies-earth, water, air, fire sky, mind, intelligence, ego*-Kṛṣṇa says apareyam, all these energies, separated energies, material energies, they are aparā, inferior. But that is also Kṛṣṇa's energies. Inferior means not actually inferior, because they, there cannot be anything inferior which is emanating from Kṛṣṇa. The inferior in this sense: by our absence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we have come here, in this material world, to enjoy to satisfy, sense satisfaction, sense gratification, we have made it inferior. Otherwise it is not inferior. One who knows how to utilize this energy, for him, it is not inferior. Nirbandha-kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. One who does not know how to utilize this material energy for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa, for them, it is inferior. Otherwise, advaya-jñāna, absolute... Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Nārada Muni has described before Vyāsadeva: idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. It appears like different, but actually Kṛṣṇa... A mahā-bhāgavata... This is the vision of mahā-bhāgavata, not ordinary man. Mahā-bhāgavata... Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhi tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. A mahā-bhāgavata sees a tree or an animal or a... He does not see the form but he sees his iṣṭa deva mūrti; he sees there Kṛṣṇa. Actually, Kṛṣṇa is there as Paramātmā. So he sees Paramātmā. He does not see the external body. So Kṛṣṇa's two energies... Inferior means where Kṛṣṇa consciousness is almost absent. That is inferior. When there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is no more inferior; that is superior. So Kṛṣṇa says, apareyam itas tu vidhi me prakṛtiṁ parā. After all, any energy, prakṛti... So the Māyāvādī philosophers mistakes to elevate the living entities to the standard of puruṣa, the Supreme. But actually it is not so. It is prakṛti. Prakṛti means predominated and puruṣa means predominator. And actually, that is our position. We are not predominator. Artificially I am thinking that I am predominator. That is my illusion. I am not predominator. Nobody's predominator. Predominator is Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ parataro nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya. He's predominator. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8].

*So prakṛti and puruṣa... Kṛṣṇa is puruṣa. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam. Arjuna has described, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. "You are the original puruṣa, enjoyer." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If we know that Kṛṣṇa is the original person, enjoyer, and we are simply enjoyed... We are meant for being enjoyed, not to take the post of enjoyer. Here, in this material world, everyone is artificially trying to become enjoyer, both men and women. But that is illusion. Nobody's enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. The supreme enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa. So just like prakṛti-puruṣa, we can get one idea, husband and wife. Husband is puruṣa, wife is prakṛti. So if the wife is faithful, always trying to serve the husband, always to make her husband pleased, and husband takes care of the wife for all her necessities of life, as that home life becomes very beautiful and happy, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Puruṣa, enjoyer. We living entities, if we simply try to serve Him and make Him happy, as the gopīs did, then it is very congenial atmosphere as it was in Vṛndāvana. Everyone is serving Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is trying to please Kṛṣṇa. The birds, the beasts, the trees, the land, the water, the cowherd boys, the gopīs, Kṛṣṇa's father, mother, elderly people-everyone*-the central point is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. So we can have Vṛndāvana anywhere and everywhere. Vṛndāvana is not that limited. It is not material. As Kṛṣṇa is not limited... Kṛṣṇa says in the Brahma-saṁhitā, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. Now, one can say that "Kṛṣṇa is far, far away in the Goloka Vṛndāvana. How He will eat?" That is material conception. Kṛṣṇa can eat even He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana, provided the foodstuff is offered by a devotee. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. It is a question of bhakti. Then Kṛṣṇa eats. Kṛṣṇa is present in His Goloka Vṛndāvana, in His dhāma. He does not go out, but His expansion goes out and takes, accepts the service of the devotee. This is the bhagavat-tattva-vijñānam. One should understand the bhagavat-tattva-vijñānam. It is a science, how He takes... We have got our limited sense that "I am sitting here." If you offer my foodstuff some yards off from me, I cannot reach, because I am limited. But Kṛṣṇa can expand His hand. He Himself comes. Svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. Kṛṣṇa becomes manifest to the devotee. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. When one becomes devotee, beginning from the tongue, jihvādau, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau, svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ, He becomes revealed. Yei nāma sei kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of chanting without any offenses. Then you'll find the name is not different from Kṛṣṇa. When you are chanting, you'll find Kṛṣṇa is dancing on your tongue. This is the conclusion.

*So we have to learn how to chant. Therefore in the śāstras, in the Purāṇas, the ten kinds of offenses are described. And Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has given very much stress to avoid these offenses. Śuddha*-nāma. In the beginning we cannot chant pure form of the name, because we are accustomed... But still, by chanting process, then it becomes nāmābhāsa, almost pure. Ābhāsa means just like before sunrise, you find the darkness is off, but it is not sunlight. It is different from sunlight, but still, there is the dawn, you can see everything distinctly. Similarly, first there is offensive name and, if you avoid, avoid the ten kinds of offenses, then gradually it becomes nāmābhāsa. And Śrīla Haridāsa Ṭhākura has said, Namācārya, that by nāmābhāsa, one becomes liberated. There was some argument with Haridāsa Ṭhākura and one brāhmaṇa in the office of Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī's father, uncle. So there were some high level talks on this nāmābhāsa. So by nāmābhāsa one becomes liberated. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra offensive, one becomes materially happy or distressed, but when one comes to the stage of nāmābhāsa, he becomes liberated. And when he chants pure name, there is Kṛṣṇa-prema. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī: he was chanting. We are also chanting. But we are not in the stage of Rūpa Gosvāmī or Sanātana Gosvāmī and Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Actually, if we come to that stage then there will be Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī said that "What shall I chant with one tongue and two ears? If there were millions of tongues and trillions of ears, I could chant something." And we cannot finish even sixteen rounds, because we have not created our taste for chanting. Still we are in the nāmāparādha stage. But don't be disappointed. Go on chanting. You'll come to the right position, nāmābhāsa, then śuddha-nāma. Everything requires gradual development.

*So this nāma is also another incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Nāma*-rūpe kali-kāle kṛṣṇa-avatāra. Name is... Because name and Kṛṣṇa is not different. Abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. There is no difference. Here, in the material world, there is difference between the name and the substance, but advaya-jñāna, in the Absolute world there is no such distinction. The name and the person, the same, identical. So actually, when we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we directly associate with Kṛṣṇa, because name is the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Nāma-rūpe kṛṣṇa-avatāra. Therefore, if we are sensible, then we should take very much respectful attitude to the name, because name and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Suppose Kṛṣṇa comes here. How much respectful we shall be, immediately. So similarly, when we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we should know Kṛṣṇa is there. Therefore we should be very much cautious and respectful, not neglectful. That is offense. That is offense. If you become inattentive, that is offense. You should know this. Try to avoid. Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance to meet Him in so many ways: nāma, rūpa, līlā, parikara, vasiṣṭha. He is giving us chance in the form of name, in the form of Deity, in the form of His pastimes, in the form of His paraphernalia. Just like this Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said. It is not my manufacture. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvana. As Kṛṣṇa, the Brajendra-nandana Hari, Kṛṣṇa, as He is worshipable, similarly His dhāma is worshipable. We should be very much respectful to Vṛndāvana-dhāma; otherwise we'll be offender. Dhāmāparādha. Dhāmāparādha. If we remain in Vṛndāvana we should know that we are living with Kṛṣṇa. And how much we should be cautious, how much we should be careful if we are actually understand what is dhāma. Dhāma is also Kṛṣṇa. If in the dhāma we commit sinful activities, then we are, what is called, suiciding, committing suicide. It is a fact.

*You know the story of Yamala*-arjuna. So they were given the place in the dhāma, Vṛndāvana-dhāma, as a tree, but they had to waste time for so many hundreds years. Although there is guarantee, anyone who is in dhāma, he'll get the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, but not... Why should we waste your time to become a tree or a monkey or a hog or a dog? Don't waste. You should be very careful. Don't commit any offense in the dhāma. Then one life is sufficient to go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaun... [Bg. 4.9]. If you actually live in Vṛndāvana carefully, without committing any offense and sinful life, then in this life you are going to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. To live in Vṛndāvana means to know Kṛṣṇa-how He appeared there, how He played here, how He executed His pastimes here. Janma karma divyam. These are all celestial, all transcendental. Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī.

So this is Vṛndāvana life of Kṛṣṇa. So if we know Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ... This tattvataḥ we discussed this morning.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścit vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*So those who are living in Vṛndāvana, they should try to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ. That is their business. Not that take advantage of Vṛndāvana and make some anyābhilāṣa, jñāna*-karma. No. That means we are wasting time. You'll get the chance because you have come to Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana's so powerful. But if we commit offense and sinful activities, it will be delayed. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Don't waste time. Don't wait for another life. In this life, finish this business, to understand Kṛṣṇa, and go back home, back to Godhead." That is required. If one is businessman... Just like in business they want to execute business free, finish the business very quickly, similarly, because we see that such a devotee like Bhārata Mahārāja, because he was little attached to a calf, a deer calf... What is called?



Devotee: Fawn.



*Prabhupāda: Fawn. Yes. So he had to take the life of a deer next life. Just see. Such a great devotee, but because he was a little attached... Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. So we should be very careful that even in Vṛndāvana, if we miss the point, if we are attached to something, then we have to accept another life, either as beast or tree. Of course, the chance will be given to become a tree and beast in Vṛndāvana. That is also profitable, because next life, he's going back to home, back to Godhead. But why should we waste another life in this way? So Kṛṣṇa*-nāma rūpe-avatāra. So we should respect chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra with very care, carefulness, cautious so that we may not commit any offense. Then your business is successful. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. If somebody thinks that "I am living in Vṛndāvana. I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So if I do something sinful, what it will do...?" Eka nāma, kṛṣṇa-nāme yata pāpa kare, pāpi haya tata pāpa karite nāraya (?). "So what sinful I am doing? A little sinful..." Yes, little sinful will be excused. But if it is done not willingly, but if you commit sinful activities willingly, daily, then you'll be punished. That is laws of nature. Even if you are bhakta. You'll be given chance, but you'll have to be punished. So therefore we must be very careful. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means dealing with Kṛṣṇa directly. Therefore we must be very careful, cautious, respectful. Then it is nice, it is success. Read. Next.



Pradyumna: "For example, great demons like Rāvaṇa, Kaṁsa and Hiraṇyakaśipu were always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but they were thinking of Him as their enemy. This sort of thinking cannot be accepted as bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. As Rāvaṇa and Kaṁsa was thinking of Kṛṣṇa as enemy, similarly, if we think of Kṛṣṇa that "He'll wash my sinful activities," that means you are thinking like Rāvaṇa and Kaṁsa. Kṛṣṇa should be thought favorably. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Na prātikūlyena. No. You cannot think of Kṛṣṇa and commit sinful life at the same time. That is prātikūla. Kṛṣṇa does not want that you shall remain sinful, because you cannot approach Kṛṣṇa without being free from sinful activities. Yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpam. Kṛṣṇa is pavitra, paramam. Apāpa-viddham. These are the description. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Pure. You cannot approach the Supreme Pure being sinful and make Kṛṣṇa your order-supplier, that you go on committing sinful life and Kṛṣṇa will wash it. Kṛṣṇa washes it-once, twice, thrice. But if you consciously go on, continue the sinful life, then you'll have to be punished. So we should not think pervertedly, like Rāvaṇa and Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was always absorbed in thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Also he got salvation. But not as associate, but he merged into the Brahman effulgence.



*So these are the points. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. We should execute cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness very favorably, not unfavorably. Favorable means by which Kṛṣṇa becomes pleased, by which your spiritual master becomes pleased. Because when your spiritual master is pleased, Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. So spiritual master is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, you do not see the proprietor, but your immediate officer, if you can please, then you get promotion, increment, so many things. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa sends His representative. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. So, so pleasing the ācārya means pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, yasya prasādad bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam means when you have accepted the bona fide spiritual master, you should work in such a way that your spiritual master is pleased with you. Then you, your path is very clear. Don't do anything which is against the will of the spiritual master. Because we cannot see Kṛṣṇa eye to eye at the present moment. The direction is coming through disciplic succession. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So we should follow favorably to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then our life is successful. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "The impersonalists sometimes misunderstand devotional service in such a way that they divide Kṛṣṇa from His paraphernalia and pastimes. For example, the Bhagavad*-gītā is spoken on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and the impersonalists say that although Kṛṣṇa is of interest, the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra isn't. The devotees, however, also know that the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra by itself has nothing to do with their business, but in addition they know that 'Kṛṣṇa' does not mean just Kṛṣṇa alone. He is always with His associates and paraphernalia."



*Prabhupāda: There are so*-called pseudo devotees. They say, "What we have to do with Bhagavad-gītā?" They think that they are so advanced that they will jump over immediately to the Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. That means Kṛṣṇa's līlā in the Kurukṣetra is not very much important for them. But no. Kṛṣṇa's līlā, either in the Kurukṣetra or in Vṛndāvana, the same thing. We should know. Abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. So better, first of all, read Bhagavad-gītā, the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Try to read, or try to learn. Of course, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is everything. But for ordinary persons, because Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD of spiritual knowledge... People even commit mistakes in studying the ABCD of spiritual knowledge. People have become so much degraded that they cannot understand even ABCD of spiritual knowledge. They'll make their own interpretation. Such is the horrible condition. They'll try to make minus Kṛṣṇa Bhagavad-gītā, go on reading Bhagavad-gītā for millions of years, setting aside Kṛṣṇa. That is scholarly. This is going on. Scholar means they say, openly... I have seen Dr. Radhakrishnan. When he's explaining man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], he's saying openly, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." He's saying. Just see the attempt. He's writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā and he's trying to make Kṛṣṇa away, minus Kṛṣṇa. Simply mental speculation. This is going on. We should be very careful. What is that? Go on. The impersonalists... The impersonalists, they do not know that Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's body, not different. They take it for acceptance that when God, Brahman comes, He accepts a material body. That is Māyāvādī philosophy. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. He comes... Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. He comes as He is. Otherwise how He can act so wonderfully? When He was on the lap of His mother, three months old, how He could kill the gigantic demon, Pūtanā? He's not different from His body. He simply appears according to the necessity. Kṛṣṇa has no such difference, body and soul. He's full, complete, spiritual. We have got, in this conditional state, soul and body difference. Dehi and deha. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. So dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. Kṛṣṇa hasn't got to accept another body. So this, these things we should know. Kṛṣṇa is complete, pūrṇa-brahman. There is nothing like material and spiritual in Kṛṣṇa's body. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "For instance, if someone says, 'Give something to eat to the man with the weapons,' the eating process is done by the man and not by the weapons. Similarly, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, a devotee may be interested in the paraphernalia and locations-such as the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra*-which are associated with Kṛṣṇa, but he is not concerned with simply any battlefield. He is concerned with Kṛṣṇa-His speech, His instructions, etc. It is because Kṛṣṇa is there that the battlefield is so important."



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Pradyumna: "This is the summary understanding of what Kṛṣṇa consciousness is. Without this understanding one is sure to misunderstand why the devotees are interested in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes we are asked that "Why Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to become violent?" So then so many so-called scholars, they criticize Kṛṣṇa, but they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. In whichever way He acts, it is the same thing. God is good. It does not mean when He fights in the Battlefield of Kurkṣetra He becomes bad. No. He's still good. That is the conception of God: absolute. He can do anything and anything. Still, He continues to be the Absolute Truth. That is Absolute Truth. There is no relative understanding, "This is good for God, this is bad for God," as (if) God has come before me to be judged by me. You cannot judge God, Kṛṣṇa. What He does... Just like Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa: sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava [Bg. 10.14]. "I accept whatever You say in toto, without any distinction." That is acceptance of Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the way of understanding Vedas. You cannot judge the conclusion of the Vedas. You have to accept as it is. Because we are conditioned. We have got so many defects*-we are illusioned, we commit mistake, our senses are imperfect... So many defects. Bhrama-pramāda-vipralipsā-kara-ṇāpāṭava, we want to cheat others. So therefore we cannot give perfect knowledge. We have to receive knowledge from the perfect. And who is better perfect than Kṛṣṇa? Therefore whatever Kṛṣṇa says, whatever Kṛṣṇa does, that is all good. There is nothing criticizing. You cannot criticize Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. You cannot say, "Why Kṛṣṇa took part in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra?" Yes, He had business to do it. Because He appeared, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. He had to kill all the demons. That was His another business. Not only to dance with the gopīs in Vṛndāvana, but He had other business to kill the demons. In Vṛndāvana also, so many demons were appearing daily, and Kṛṣṇa was killing them. So that is another side of Kṛṣṇa's business. But if you study Kṛṣṇa from your materialistic angle of vision, you'll misunderstand. You should know Kṛṣṇa's dancing with the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa's fighting in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra is the one and the same. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721031ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, October 31, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading) Page xxi. "In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, Lord Caitanya states that it is a fortunate person who comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. One who is serious about spiritual life is given by Kṛṣṇa the intelligence to come in contact with a bona fide spiritual master."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is stated, "It is..., it is a fortunate person." Not the unfortunate. "It is the fortunate person who comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master." This question, we were just discussing before coming to the class, how to select a bona fide spiritual master. So that is not very difficult. Just like in our ordinary business life, we accept somebody as representative of the firm who is actually come, canvassing for the benefit of the firm. He's representative. Suppose he's representing some book seller, publisher, so he should canvass for selling the books published by his firm, not for anything else. Suppose he has taken the advantage of becoming representative of a business firm, but he's doing his own business. He's not bona fide. He's not bona fide. So real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa... Aham eva āsam agre. Kṛṣṇa existed before the creation. Then He made His representative, Brahmā. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. He instructed the original guru, Brahmā. Because there was no other living creature, except Brahmā, in the beginning of creation, and He instructed Brahmā. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. There are other versions in the Vedas, that He instructed Brahmā. So therefore, the original guru is Kṛṣṇa. The same guru, Kṛṣṇa, is instructing Arjuna also. Kṛṣṇa became guru of Arjuna. Arjuna accepted Him guru: śiṣyas te 'ham [Bg. 2.7]. Arjuna said, "Now I am not talking with You as friend, but I accept You as my guru." Therefore, by sastric conclusion, Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Who can deny it? Kṛṣṇa is jagat-guru. He's guru of everyone, because everyone (is) accepting this authority of Kṛṣṇa. Anyone is accepting the authority of Bhagavad-gītā, he's accepting, imperceptibly, Kṛṣṇa as guru. Therefore, bona fide spiritual master means who is representing Kṛṣṇa. Who can deny it?



So to find out a bona fide spiritual master is not a very difficult job, because if one is representing guru, Kṛṣṇa, then he must speak of Kṛṣṇa, canvass for Kṛṣṇa. What do you think, Visanji?

Indian man: Jaya, Mahārāja.



Prabhupāda: So that is bona fide guru. Where is the difficulty to find out a bona fide guru? Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You preach the words of Kṛṣṇa." Therefore He's bona fide. Similarly, anyone who is representing Kṛṣṇa and canvassing for Kṛṣṇa, he's bona fide guru. Where is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? Anyone can understand that if Kṛṣṇa is the original guru, and if somebody's canvassing for Kṛṣṇa, he's bona fide guru. If somebody canvassing for himself, he's not bona fide guru. So there is no difficulty to find out a bona fide guru, provided I am serious to find out a bona fide guru. But if I want something else... Because hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. If in my heart there is something else, then I must be cheated by some..., somebody else who is not a bona fide guru. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11].



*So to find out a bona fide guru, spiritual master, is not very difficult. It is very easy. Kṛṣṇa says explicitly, evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. This knowledge, Vedic knowledge, is received by paramparā system. Just like Kṛṣṇa said to sun-god,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

[Bg. 4.2]



*Kṛṣṇa said that "This yoga system, first of all I explained to the sun*-god, and he explained to his son, Manu, and Manu explained to his son, Iṣkvāku. In this way, by the paramparā system, by the disciplic succession, the knowledge is coming." Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. But as soon as it began to be explained to others, without being in the disciplic succession, in the chain of disciplic succession, speaking the same truth, it becomes broken. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ. Yoga naṣṭaḥ. It is spoiled. If one does not come in the disciplic succession, he'll spoil the teaching. That is being done. So-called commentator, teacher of Bhagavad-gītā, he does not come in the disciplic succession. He is self-made guru. Therefore he's not guru. Self-made guru cannot be guru. He must be authorized by the bona fide guru. Then he's guru. This is the fact. Here... Nobody can be self-made anything. A medical practitioner, he cannot become self-made, that "I have studied all the medical books in my home." No. "Have you ever gone to the medical college and taken instruction from the bona fide teachers?" Then, if you have got the certificate, then you are medical practitioner. Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He must receive the order from the superior. And the superior must be bona fide. Then he's bona fide, not self-made. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. The direction is that one must go to a guru. But who is guru? Śābde ca pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. These are the descriptions.



*So to find out a bona fide guru is not difficult, provided one is bona fide to search out a guru. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. By the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa... Because by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa one gets a bona fide guru, and by the mercy of bona fide guru, one gets Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. When I am actually serious to have connection with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is sitting in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So Kṛṣṇa can understand. We cannot hide anything from Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Because Kṛṣṇa is sitting side by side, just like two birds, sitting side by side. One bird is eating the fruit of the tree. Another bird is the witness. That is the Vedic version. So as soon as I become serious to know about Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa can understand, "Now My friend is very serious." So He will find out a bona fide guru for him. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. By the, by the double mercy... Kṛṣṇa's mercy, and guru's mercy. If one is serious, Kṛṣṇa is satisfied: "Now he's serious about finding out, about knowing Me." Then Kṛṣṇa gives him direction that "Here is guru, My representative. You take shelter of him and you will get Me." This is the way.

*That is explained in this..., that by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, that it is a fortunate person. Fortunate person means he must be sincere, serious to know about Kṛṣṇa. That is fortunate. Because our misfortune has begun by forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. When we desire to enjoy this material world, forgetting service of Kṛṣṇa, that is the beginning of our misfortune. That is the beginning. Because as soon as I forget Kṛṣṇa, that is the beginning of my misfortune. So in order to be, in order to become again fortunate, I have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the way. The same... By some way or other... Anādi*-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa māyā..., ataeva māyā tāre galila baddhiya (?). Some way or other, we forgot Kṛṣṇa. Unfortunate because we are, even we have got this opportunity of remembering Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to avoid Him. We are bringing so many nonsense things: "Why not this? Why not that? Why not...?" This is misfortune. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. But we are presenting, "Why not this? Why not that? Why not this? Why not that?" this is our misfortune. Why? Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam. Why shall I try to put another alternative? Why? What is the reason? That is our misfortune. Kṛṣṇa is offering the fortune. Sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is fortune. But I'll not take that. Kṛṣṇa says, "Get up. Give up all other engagements. Simply take shelter of Me. I shall give you all protection." But I don't believe Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is my misfortune. This fortune, to become fortunate and misfortunate... Just like in English word, "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Is it not? "Man is the architect of his own fortune." But if you, as you are architect of your own fortune, you are architect of your own misfortune also. So if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's advice, then you must consider yourself unfortunate. We should be cautious: "Why shall I become unfortunate? I must become fortunate." So that, to become fortunate, is not very difficult thing. All these Kṛṣṇa consciousness people, they are fortunate. They have taken Kṛṣṇa's advice as it is, without any change. They're fortunate. And that is being manifested, that they are fortunate.

*So this is the process. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, if we are sincere and serious, then Kṛṣṇa becomes kind upon us and gives direction: buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. "I give them buddhi-yogam." Buddhi means intelligence. So here, everyone has got intelligence. At least, he thinks that he is very intelligent. Everyone thinks. Although he's fool number one, he thinks himself as very intelligent. Because intelligence is there. But when the intelligence is used for material fortune, that is unfortunate. When intelligence used for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is fortune. So we can set up our own fortune or misfortune. The fortune means that we must be serious after hearing about Kṛṣṇa. One must be serious. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if we are intelligent, we should seriously think over this proposal. Why Kṛṣṇa said, "Give up everything and surrender unto Me"? There is sufficient reason. If one has seriously studied Bhagavad-gītā, there is sufficient reason to surrender unto God, unto Kṛṣṇa. Everywhere. That... Those who are karmīs, Kṛṣṇa says unto them, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. This is for the karmīs. And for the jñānīs, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births, the so-called jñānīs, when he surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa, that is success. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. By culture of knowledge, by philosophical speculation, if one comes to this point, conclusion, that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then he's jñānavān, real jñānavān. That is real... Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. He must be submissive. That submissive means, "Yes, after cultivating knowledge, my Lord, Kṛṣṇa, I have come to this conclusion, that You are the Supreme Absolute Truth. I bow down my head upon Your lotus..." That is real jñāna. That is jñāna. Otherwise, ajñāna.

*But they are accepting ajñāna as jñāna. To accept ajñāna as jñāna is the most unfortunate position. That is not jñāna. Real jñāna is how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So this is jñāna. For yogi, this instruction also is there. Karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. There are four classes of men, transcendentalists. They're all transcendentalists, culturing spiritual... That's, that's all right. But even in the spiritual cultivation, there is superior, inferior. Not exactly superior or inferior, because that is the material. But still there are classification. This classification is ended when one comes to know Kṛṣṇa. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evam vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If one understands Kṛṣṇa, then Paramātmā and Brahman becomes automatically known. Sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Just like if you have got 100,000 dollars, ten dollar is within it, fifty dollar is within it, five hundred dollars is within it. So in the Bhagavad*-gītā everything is discussed there, jñāna-yoga, karma-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, buddhi-yoga, so many yogas. But Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], ultimately. That means, "If you surrender unto Me, all these yogas are included." All these yogas, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, all yogas are included. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ [Bg. 6.47]. That we have to understand. We have to become fortunate to understand this philosophy. Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. This, this philosophy... If, if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then his karma-yogi, jñāna-yogi, dhyāna-yogi, haṭha-yogi, everything..., everything is included there. He hasn't got to practice separately karma-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga. Everything is there. The haṭha-yogis, they can display many wonderful things, but Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, without endeavoring for all these things, Kṛṣṇa can show many magic on his behalf. Why should he take trouble himself, to play the magic himself? Kṛṣṇa will show how magical things are performed by the devotees. Kṛṣṇa will show. Just like small child, he doesn't require to earn money for spending. If he's rich man's son, his father will take care of him. Similarly, a devotee does not endeavor to become expert in jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, this yoga. He depends on Kṛṣṇa. And when some yogic, mystic power has to be shown, Kṛṣṇa will show that. That is the process, bhakti-yoga. You take to Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: [Bg. 18.66] "Don't worry. I shall take care of you." So therefore the conclusion is that one who is fortunate, he can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness cent percent, without any deviation. That is wanted. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "...then by the grace of the spiritual master, one becomes advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In this way the whole jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly under the spiritual energy*-Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. This has nothing to do with the material world. When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, we refer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead along with His many expansions."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. Just like when we speak of "the king," although it is singular number, "king" means there are so many others. There is the queen, there is the minister, there is the secretary, there is the commander*-in-chief, there is bodyguards, there are so many other things. Similarly, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means His expansions. He has got different types of expansion-svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. Svāṁśa expansion is Viṣṇu-tattva. Kṛṣṇa is the original person. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. All others... Just like Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, or demigods, all others, they are all expansions of Kṛṣṇa. We are also expansions of Kṛṣṇa; *we living entities, we are vibhinnāṁśa. Mamaivāṁśa. Kṛṣṇa says mamaivāṁśa. Jīva*-loka, jīva-loke, "The all these living entities, they are My part and parcel." We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa, or the demigods, they're also expansions of Kṛṣṇa. The Viṣṇu-tattva, They're also expansions of Kṛṣṇa-everyone. So Kṛṣṇa means including His expansion, including His energies, including His personal paraphernalia, including His dhāma-everything. That is Kṛṣṇa. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Tiṣṭhan means continuing to exist. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena. With His expansions, svāṁśa expansions, vibhinnāṁśa expansions.



So Kṛṣṇa is not alone. Kṛṣṇa is not nirākāra. Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal, because He has got so many personal associates. Nityo nityānām. All these personal associates, they're individual persons. We are all person. You are person, I am person. We are all individual. I have got my individual opinion; you have got your individual opinion. Oneness means when these individual opinions are coincided in the matter of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa; *that is oneness. Oneness does not mean that all these individuals become one, homogeneous. No. They keep their individuality, but they become one in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness. Now everyone is working for his sense gratification, personal. When everyone becomes agreed that "We shall satisfy Kṛṣṇa," that is oneness. That is oneness. One nation. We can understand: one family. One family means they're individual persons, but they're working for the interest of the family*-all of them combinedly, conjointly, working. Similarly, they're working conjointly for the society, or they're working conjointly for the community, or conjointly working for the nation. That is oneness. When we speak, "We are Indian nation, oneness," that oneness does not mean that every individual Indian has become homogeneous with other Indians. No. Every Indian is an individual person, but he has sacrificed his individuality and engaged himself for the service of the country. That is national consciousness. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As there is national consciousness, community consciousness, family consciousness, so many other consciousness, similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all persons agree to work for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is oneness. Oneness does not mean we lose our individuality. Sometimes, individually we fight. Just like in the legislative assembly, our representative, M.P.'s, they go and fight. There is a deliberation. But that purpose is to serve the country. Therefore, instead of the difference of opinions, they agree to work in this way. That is legislative assembly. Similarly, individuality there must be always, but when we find out a one means to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is oneness. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ [Īśo 7]. Eka. That is ekatvam. Why a... In other words, ekatvam... This is the version of the Īśopaniṣad, ekatvam anupaśyataḥ. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ. Ekatvam, at the same time, anupaśyataḥ. That means we are all spirit soul. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. That is anupaśyataḥ. And on this basis, when we find ekatvam, oneness, that is the platform of peace, that "We are all servants of Kṛṣṇa." Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised this, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. When we feel that "Eternally I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, you are servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is ekatvam. Not that we become a lump of thing. No. Impersonality cannot be... Personality cannot be changed. Jīva-loke. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. This individuality is sanātana, eternal. But when we disagree to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is asanātana, not sanātana. That is artificial.

*So here in this material world, we have disagreed to serve Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the whole proposal is again agree to serve Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is real philosophy. We disagreed; therefore we came into this material world, and we are fighting with one another. Now again the proposal is, agree to this oneness, ekam. Then there will be peace. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchanti. These things are there.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*We are becoming leaders, the friend of the people. But we are not friend of the people. Kṛṣṇa is the friend of... Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām. If I simply say that "I am your friend in this sense that I deliver the message to you that 'Kṛṣṇa is your best friend.' I do not... I am friend so far I am giving you this information. But actual friend is Kṛṣṇa," suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, so this is friendship. If one preaches Kṛṣṇa consciousness and teaches everyone that Kṛṣṇa is your best friend... He does not say, "I am your best friend." "I am your best friend in this sense that I am giving you this information." Actually, Kṛṣṇa is your best friend. What can I do? I am a teeny living entity. What can I do for you? I be..., may become your friend, but when you are in danger, I cannot give you any protection. Kṛṣṇa can give you protection. This is real friendship. He does not take himself. He always carries the message only. Ya imaṁ mad-bhakteṣu abhidāsyati. Simply our business is to carry the message of Kṛṣṇa. Then we are friend. Otherwise we are not friend. We may pose to become friend, but we are not friend because we do not know how to benefit the friend. Sometimes we mislead him.



*Therefore our business is to point that "Kṛṣṇa is your friend." Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. "He's the proprietor. Don't claim your proprietorship. You are not proprietor. You are falsely claiming; *because what you are claiming as your property, it will be taken away by Kṛṣṇa at the time of your death. Everything will be finished." Mṛtyuḥ sarva*-haraś ca aham, Kṛṣṇa says. Mṛtyu... Kṛṣṇa says, "I am death when I take away everything from the person-his life, property, body and everything." Actually, we claim, "This is my property." This is moha. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Lokasya janasya moho 'yam. This is friendship, to educate people that "You are not proprietor. Kṛṣṇa is proprietor. You are not enjoyer. Kṛṣṇa is enjoyer. You are seeking out friends to give you protection. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme friend who will give you protection." If we spread this message all over the world, then I am friend of Kṛṣṇa, I am friend of the persons. Otherwise, I am not friend, because I cannot become friend. I can simply carry... Just like post peon give you five thousand rupees, delivers. He does not deliver. Somebody else is delivering. He's simply carrying. That's all. Similarly, if we simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa as it is, we become perfect. It is not very difficult. If I simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? Everything is there. Kṛṣṇa has said everything. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. We carry this message. Just always think of Kṛṣṇa, always offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa, become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā, think of Kṛṣṇa always. We have to carry this message. Where is the difficulty?

So to become a bona fide spiritual master, there is no difficulty, if you, simply, if we carry the message of Kṛṣṇa as it is, without any adulteration. So we must find out a person who is actually bona fide spiritual master by this test, that he's not, I mean to say, adulterating Kṛṣṇa's message. He's not playing havoc with the message of Kṛṣṇa in order to introduce himself, his person. He's simply presenting the message of Kṛṣṇa as it is. Then he's spiritual master. Nobody else.

Thank you very much. (end)



721101ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 1, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading:) "...as given by Rūpa Gosvāmī in Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, can be summarized thus: his service is favorable and is always in relation to Kṛṣṇa. In order to keep the purity of such Kṛṣṇa conscious activities, one must be freed from all material desires and philosophical speculation. Any desire except for the service of the Lord is called material desire. And philosophical speculation refers to the sort of speculation which ultimately arrives at a conclusion of voidism or impersonalism. This conclusion is useless for a Kṛṣṇa conscious person. Only rarely by philosophical speculation can one reach the conclusion of worshiping Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā itself. The ultimate end of philosophical speculation, then, must be Kṛṣṇa, with the understanding that Kṛṣṇa is everything, the cause of all causes, and that one should therefore surrender unto Him. If this ultimate goal is reached, then philosophical advancement is favorable, but if the conclusion of philosophical speculation is voidism or impersonalism, that is not bhakti."



*Prabhupāda: There is a verse in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: vāsudeva-parā vedā vāsudeva-paraṁ jñānaṁ vāsudeva-paraṁ gatim. So unless one is led to the conclusion vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], jñāna-vairāgya-karma, anything that you are trying to achieve, if it is not targeted to the realization of Vāsudeva, then it... Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. That is the conclusion of Bhāgavata. Whatever you do, the ultimate goal should be realization of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. All Vedic conclusions should be ultimately to realize Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. This realization is achieved after many, many births of philosophical speculation, mystic yogic exercise or fruitive activities. Koṭi-karmī-madhye eka jñānī śreṣṭha. To become karmī is the third-class stage of life. One has to make progress further, so that one may become self-realized, brahma-bhūtaḥ. So out of many, many karmīs, one jñānī, or one who has realized his identification, he's better. And out of many millions of jñānīs who are trying to realize his self by philosophical speculation, brahma-jñāna, so one mukta, or liberated soul, is better. And out of many thousands of liberated souls, it is said by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, it is very rare to find out a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.



*The conclusion is, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa is picked up out of many, many liberated persons. Mukta-saṅgasya jāyate. Kṛṣṇa realization, bhagavat-tattva-vijñānam, mukta-saṅgasya jāyate. Bhagavat-tattva, the truth, the Absolute Truth, which is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, bhagavat-tattva-vijñānam. Tattva means truth, and that is Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti [SB 1.2.11]. Brahman realization is not all. One has to go further. Paramātmā realization-one has to go further. When one comes to realization of Bhagavān, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa-bhagavān-Bhagavān means full will six kinds of opulences, person, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]*-that is ultimate goal of life. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Such kind of mahātmā is very rare. That is the verdict of all Vedic literature, and confirmed by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: koti-mukta-madhye durlabha kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Kṛṣṇa bhakta, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, is very rarely to be found out amongst the muktas, amongst the liberated souls. Others are trying to become liberated, but a Kṛṣṇa-bhakta is above liberation. Pañcama-puruṣārtha. People are busy for dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Some of them are busy to become religious. Of course, without religious life, there..., there is no human society. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Unless a society takes to religiosity, it is not human society. Therefore we see any civilized human society, there is a kind of religious system. It doesn't matter whether it is Hinduism, Christianism, or Buddhism, or Muhammadanism, but there must be a religious system. Without this system, that human society is not considered as human society. That is animal society. In the... Even I understand that in America the Red Indians, who are supposed to be not civilized, they had also a religious system. So maybe a perverted form of religious system. Similarly, in India also there are primitive races in the jungles, they have also... Religious system means approving the authority of some Supreme Being. That is religious system. So in the animal society there is no such conception that "There is God. We have got some relationship with God," what is that relationship. This type of discussion cannot be present in the animal society. So dharma artha kāma mokṣa. Generally religious system is taken for improving social and economic condition. Artha. Artha means economy. Artha is required for sense gratification. We require economic development for our sense gratification. And when one is completely satisfied, then he can cultivate about spiritual realization, mokṣa, āpavarga.

*So dharmasya āpavargyasya arthaḥ na arthāya upakalpate. So dharma is not meant for developing economic condition. That is secondary. But dharma is meant for ultimate goal of liberation. People do not know that. People are not educated that what is the ultimate goal of life. Still, they take to religious life as a compromise between the contending elements, that "We must live peacefully under religious system." The aim is how to live in this material world peacefully. Sometimes religion and God is conceived in that way, that is, "If we have some conception of God, then we shall be moral, we shall be peaceful. Otherwise, there is no need of presenting God in the society." There are so many different opinions, different philosophers, different religious system, according to the modes of nature. But actually every system must be targeted towards realization of Kṛṣṇa, or God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is Bhāgavata*-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Prahlāda Mahārāja recommended culture of this Bhāgavata-dharma from the very beginning of life: kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. That is the success of human form of life, to execute Bhāgavata-dharma. The, the process... And dharma, as we have several times explained, dharma means the codes of Bhagavān. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19].

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is directly touching the point. Not step by step. There is no time. In the Kali-yuga there is very little time to go step by step. Otherwise, there are twenty different types of religious scriptures, viṁśati-prakāśa, dharma-śāstra. So who will read, and who will try to understand? There is no time. Prāyeṇa alpāyuṣaḥ kalāu asmin yuge janāḥ. People who are very short-living and they are not very enthusiastic for self-realization. Manda. Even they, somebody becomes interested in self-realization, they accept some wrong path. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. They have got different mataḥ, opinion or path. And the so-called swamis, they also support that "Whatever opinion you have got about religious system, that is all right." Yata mata tata patha. But actually, the fact is different. The fact is that one should take simply to the devotional path, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. If you are actually serious to know God, or Kṛṣṇa, then you must take to this process of devotional service. Without this you cannot understand. Not through karma, not through mystic yogic exercises, but through devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti, yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad... But people do not know it. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. Bhakti-yogam, execution of bhakti-yoga, is the means of anartha upaśama, subduing the anarthas. Material life means we have accumulated some unwanted things. Just like this material body*-this is also not wanted. But somehow or other, we have developed this, and as we have got this material body, we have got so many material necessities of life. So it is not that abruptly we have to give it up. But by yukta-vairāgya, everything, the material activities, dovetailing with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it becomes gradually purified, and we come to the final stage of understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is our success of life. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "Karma, or fruitive activities, are sometimes understood to be ritualistic activities. There are many persons who are very much attracted by the ritualistic activities described in the Vedas. But if one becomes attracted simply to ritualistic activities without understanding Kṛṣṇa, his activities are unfavorable to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be based simply on hearing, chanting, remembering, etc. Described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam are nine different processes, besides which, everything done is unfavorable to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Thus one should always be guarding against falldowns."



*Prabhupāda: So we should directly take to the nine different processes of devotional service, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. That we are stressing specifically every time, that hearing about Kṛṣṇa is very important. Śravaṇam. As it is described in the Bhāgavatam, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Śṛṇvatām. Simply hearing, śṛṇvatām, those who are hearing... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has also recommended, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. One may stay in his position as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, or as a śūdra. Everyone can hear about Kṛṣṇa. This assembly which we are holding, there is no such thing that only the brāhmaṇas will come here, or the kṣatriyas will come here. Anyone can come and hear about Kṛṣṇa. That is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We try to invite everyone, from every corner of the world, to hear about Kṛṣṇa. And that is becoming successful also. Simply by hearing about Kṛṣṇa-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare*-and reading Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, simply talking about Kṛṣṇa, they are becoming successful. So we should take... In the Kali-yuga it is very difficult to go step by step. It is not possible. Therefore by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the easiest path has been recommended:



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*Actually, we cannot accept various paths for self-realization. That is not impossible. Sometimes, because we give stress directly to accept this devotional service, people are not very happy that we do not give any importance to the process of jñāna and karma and yoga. We do not condemn, but they're very difficult. The yogic process... Especially in Western countries, they are very much fond of the word yoga. We are therefore publishing this book, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Is the Topmost Yoga. Actually it is so. So the yoga system or the jñāna system or the karma-kāṇḍa system, we do not make them null and void, but it will be very much slow form of progress. It will take long, long time. Neither it is possible to execute yoga system or karma system very properly in this age. Therefore the best contribution to the people of this age is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Immediately take to... Directly take to Kṛṣṇa and your life will be successful. Kṛṣṇa also says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. The yoga system, karma system, jñāna system, they may be taken as different types of religious path, but Kṛṣṇa recommends*-not only at the present moment, but eternally He recommends-five thousand years ago, He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "I'll give you protection," ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has also mentioned in this definition of bhakti the word jñāna*-karmādi. This karmādi, or fruitive work, consists of activities which are unable to help one attain to pure devotional service. Many forms of so-called renunciation are also not favorable to Kṛṣṇa conscious devotional service."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Karma... Rūpa Gosvāmī has directly recommended, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Actually, we find so many yogis, jñānīs, karmīs, they cannot understand even what is the benefit of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because we say directly, "You take to devotional service," sometimes they are not satisfied. But what can be done? This is the process recommended. And we are preaching through the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that this process of Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana..., paraṁ vijayate kṛṣṇa-saṅkir..., saṅkīrtanam.



*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prapti-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings, paraṁ vijayate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So go anywhere and everywhere, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you'll become victorious. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings. It is not our invention. And practically we are getting result. All over the world, our only means is to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Recently we have become victorious, very recently in Melbourne. You know, our men were being arrested and prosecuted. But one, the chief clergyman, archbishop, he has recommended that "These people are very nice people, God conscious. Don't give them trouble." Yes. And the government has stopped harassing. Now we are free to move on the street and go anywhere. This recent news we have got from Melbourne. Madhudviṣa Mahārāja has sent this news. Similarly, we were harassed in London also, and other places. In USA also. San Francisco. I do not know whether we were harassed in New York, but more or less... And in Japan also, they are talking that "You become bona fide religious organization. Otherwise you cannot come on the street." So although there is harassment by the governing agents, still we are coming out successful. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. All glories to the Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Saṅkīrtana! Practically. So you stick to this principle, go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra anywhere it is possible, and you'll be victorious. That is the blessings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Believe in it and you'll be successful. Yes. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has also quoted a definition from the Nārada*-pañcarātra as follows: 'One should be free from all material designations and must be cleansed of all material contamination by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He should be restored to his pure identity, where he engages his senses in the service of the proprietor of the senses.' So when our senses are engaged for the actual proprietor of the senses, that is called devotional service."



*Prabhupāda: Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti, devotional service, does not mean inertness. Not simply sitting down or meditate. It is activity, engaging all the senses. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam. Hṛṣīka means these senses*-not these senses, but purified senses. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Just like pranair arthair dhiyaḥ vaca. Prana, life; artha, riches, money; dhiya, intelligence; *and vaca, speeches. So everyone using... Just like for national cause people are engaging life, they are sacrificing life. So many, for attainment of independence in India, so many Indians gave up their life. Pranaiḥ. So many people gave up their everything. We know during national movement, Mr. C. R. Das, a great leader of the Congress group, he sacrificed everything. He was a big, very big lawyer, barrister. He sacrificed his profession, he sacrificed his life*-everything. So as we are sacrificing everything for attainment of some so-called national independence, the same thing, if we sacrifice for Kṛṣṇa, then our life becomes successful. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā.



So it is not inactivity. Caitanya Mahāprabhu or his followers, they were not inactive. They were acting. This Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was so active that he could not sleep at night even for more than one and one half hour. They retired from the material activities. He was minister. He gave up his job and joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu in old age. He came to Vṛndāvana not to live a retired life, but a very active life.

*nana-śāstra*-vicaraṇaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau

*lokanam hita*-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau saranyakarau

*radha*-kṛṣṇa-padaravinda-bhajananandena-mattalikau

*vande rupa*-sanātana raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*Here is, sitting, Śrī Gosvāmījī. He's coming from Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. So all these six Gosvāmīs, they were not inactive. They were always active. As we are active in the karma, karmī life, so bhakti life is also activity. It is not sitting down idly or gossiping. One must find out some job to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti life. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Sevanam means activity. Sevanam does not mean sit down idle, inert. No. As soon as seva... Sevā means activity. One has to preach, one has to write, one has to do this, do that, cook, offer the prasādam, everything. Sevā, activity.



*So that activity and karmīs' activity, there is difference. The karmī's activity is on upādhi. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." With this upādhi, we are acting. But bhakti means without upādhi. Sarvopādhi*-virnirmuktam. Activity without upādhi. Working not as American. Working not as Indian. Working not as Hindu. Working not as Muslim. That is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If we think that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am American," that is with upādhi. When we purely think that "We are...," or "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. My only business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa," that activity is called bhakti. If I become interested in some party, that is not... Sometimes people criticize these American and European devotees, that they think that "They are American devotee; *we are Hindu devotee. There is difference." This is not bhakti*-mārga. This is upādhi. Why you should think yourself as Hindu? Why you should think of others who have come from America as American? That is less intelligent. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta... Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If one thinks of Vaiṣṇava as belonging to this class, this nation, he has no vision. Nārakī. That is called nārakī-buddhiḥ. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ arcye śilādhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If we think the Deity as made of stone and made of wood, arcye śilā-dhīr; *guruṣu, nara*-matiḥ, if we accept spiritual master as ordinary human being; *vaiṣṇave jāti*-buddhiḥ, and if we take a Vaiṣṇava as belonging to America or Europe or India... No. They are transcendental. Neither the Deity in the temple is stone, neither the spiritual master is ordinary human being, nor the Vaiṣṇava belongs to any caste. This vision is perfect vision. When you come to this vision, that is bhakti. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. A bhakta has to become purified. Tat-paratvena, being dovetailed with the service of tat, om tat sat. Tat-param. This is the process of devotional service. One should not be designated "I am this," "I am that," "I am that." No. The world should unite. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that one should forget that he's Indian or Hindu or Christian or American or Indian. Everything should unite as servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti-mārga. Unfortunately, they distinguish between American Vaiṣṇava and Indian Vaiṣṇava: brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava, śūdra Vaiṣṇava. No. A Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇur asya devataḥ iti vaiṣṇava. One who has accepted Viṣṇu as "my Lord," he has no designation. A Vaiṣṇava has no such distinction. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

*So this is the sūtra given by Nārada. Tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. So we must follow the path of mahājana, the instruction of the ācārya. Then we can become purified. And unless we are purified, there is no question of pure devotional service. Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛta. If one does not want to become advanced, if one does not want to become purified, then he remains a prakṛta*-bhakta. Prakṛta-bhakta means executing devotional service under the instruction of spiritual master and the regulative principles of śāstra, but he's still on the platform of material understanding. That is called prakṛta-bhakta. A prakṛta-bhakta cannot understand how another bhakta is transcendental. A prakṛta-bhakta cannot understand that Vṛndāvana is always transcendental. Therefore Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has discussed this point in his Tattva-sandarbha, that we cannot accept any manufactured ideas. Because everyone is defective by the four defects of material life, we have to accept the version of Vedas, Purāṇas. He has tried to establish Purāṇas as Vedic supplementary. Others, they reject Purāṇas out of the Vedas. But Jīva Gosvāmī established. All the Gosvāmīs. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī has given, śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā, aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate [Brs. 1.2.101]. It is utpātā, disturbance. If you do not follow the principles of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, pāñcarātriki-vidhi... Just like we were discussing this point, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. This is pāñcarātriki-vidhi. So if we do not follow these principles... Without following these principles, the so-called devotional service, Hari-bhakti, utpātā, simply disturbance, simply a disturbance. Therefore we have to follow the principles laid down by the Gosvāmīs, Ṣaḍ-gosvāmīs. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. And then our attempt will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



721102ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 2, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "So when our senses are engaged for the actual proprietor of the senses, that is called devotional service. In our conditional state, our senses are engaged in serving these bodily demands. When the same senses are engaged in executing the order of Kṛṣṇa, it is called bhakti."



*Prabhupāda: Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti, it is very simple thing. Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa is natural. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśa jīva-bhūtaḥ. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore our only duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is natural. There is no question about it. Part and parcel means helping the whole. As we have several times explained that this finger is the part and parcel of my body, so it is the duty of the finger always serve the body, whole body. It has no other occupation. As soon as I desire, "Finger, you come to this place," immediately it comes. "Finger, you come to this place," it immediately comes. So we can study. What is the meaning of part and parcel? Part and parcel means to serve the whole. Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth. We are relative truth. Therefore it is our duty to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our natural position.



*But at the present moment, we are engaging our senses, ourself, in designation. I am thinking, "I am American," I am thinking, "I am Hindu," I am thinking, "I am brāhmaṇa" or "I am sannyāsī." So many designations. Caitanya Mahāprabhu presented Himself, how to become designationless, sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. He said, "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not a śūdra. I am not a kṣatriya. I am not a brahmacārī." He denied. At last He said, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayoḥ dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. This is our position. We are not Indian; we are not American; we are not Hindu; *we are not Muslim. These are all designations. Therefore (the) Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to make people free from designation. Just like, actually, you see. Here are American, European boys and girls. They have forgotten that they are American or European or they come from Christian group or Jewish group. Similarly, we should also forget that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," or "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I am kṣatriya." No. This is the only platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, where we can unite on spiritual platform. We cannot be united by resolutions. Just like the United Nations: they are trying for the last thirty years to become united*-simply resolution. On that platform we cannot be united. On political platform or social platform, that is not possible, because the designations are there. When we are free from designation, sarvopādhi-virnirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam, when we are purified, then we can unite in the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa. That is real unity. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam... [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That is Vaikuṇṭha platform. Just like in Vaikuṇṭha, the Vaikuṇṭheśvara, Nārāyaṇa, or Kṛṣṇa, He's the central point of service. Just like in Vṛndāvana... The Vṛndāvana... The animals, the birds, the beasts, the water, the trees, the flowers, the cowherds boy-everyone-center is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. They did not know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but they loved Kṛṣṇa with their heart and soul. That is Vṛndāvana. So if we come to this point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and simply learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, then we can create the whole world as Vṛndāvana. Unfortunately, even in the Vṛndāvana, at the present moment, because our desires have been something else other than serving Kṛṣṇa, there are so many factions. The center is missing.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to purify our senses from the designation and engage the senses in the service of the Lord. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That is described here. That is wanted. It is called bhakti. "In our conditional state our senses are engaged in serving these bodily demands. When the same senses are engaged in executing the order of Kṛṣṇa, it is called bhakti." This is bhakti. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna served Kṛṣṇa by his talent. He was a soldier; *he knew how to fight. So by, for his personal consideration, he was thinking not to fight, not to kill the other side, because the other side happened to be his kinsmen, his grandfather, his brother, his nephews. So he was thinking in terms of his own sense gratification, because "The other side, if they are killed, I'll be unhappy." That was his consideration. Therefore he was not willing to fight. And to induce him to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, the whole Bhagavad*-gītā was explained. And at the end Kṛṣṇa asked Arjuna, "What is your decision?" Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. "You can do whatever you like. I have given you instruction, full instruction. Now whatever you like, you can do." This means every living entity has got a little independence. Kṛṣṇa, or God, does not interfere with that independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru. At the last, also, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "You do it." Kṛṣṇa can instruct us, "You do it." If I don't do it, that is my option. That option is always there. Kṛṣṇa does not oblige me. Otherwise, what is the difference between me and the stone? The stone has no independence. But I am a living entity; *I have got my independence. So do you... Kṛṣṇa does not interfere with my independence. Voluntarily, if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, voluntarily if we serve Him, then our life is successful. Voluntarily. Hitvā anyathā*-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. We can become immediately liberated if we give up our designated post. If we simply come to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately we become liberated. So many sages and saintly persons are trying to become liberated, mukta, to merge into the existence of impersonal Brahman. But because they have no information of Kṛṣṇa, or they do not like to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, they fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32].

*So we must stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any designative ideas. We must stand on the transcendental platform. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Transcendental platform means above the three modes of material nature, which is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. So this position, brahma-bhūtaḥ's position... Without being in brahma-bhūtaḥ position, liberated stage, nobody can be engaged in devotional service.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Bhakti begins when is..., one is actually liberated from the influence of the modes of material nature. That is real bhakti. Otherwise, when you are, we are in training, that is called prakṛta-bhakta. Actually, we are in the material state, but we are being trained up, the Deity worship. This is, following the rules and regulations under the instruction of spiritual master. Or Vedic injunction, this is training period. But even in the training period, if one is sincere and serious, he's liberated. He's liberated. It is so nice. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that even in the training period, although he's not mature, and even one falls immature stage, there is no loss. That is also confirmed by Nārada Muni: tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer patet tato yadi apakva... [SB 1.5.17]. There is a verse like this-I don't exactly remember*-that if one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and, and without being mature, somehow or other, if he falls down, there is no loss, whereas other persons, who are sticking to their sva-dharma, but has no idea of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not gain anything. These are the statements of Nārada. Therefore our position should be, our real active life begins when we begin to serve Kṛṣṇa with our senses without being designated, without being situated in designation. This is transcendental stage.



*Therefore a bhakta, Vaiṣṇava, Vaiṣṇava should not be considered that he's coming from European group or this group or that group. No. Vaiṣṇave jāti*-buddhiḥ. Vaiṣṇava should not be considered belonging to any jāti. Vaiṣṇave, arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-mati. Just like we worship Deity. Everyone knows that Deity is made of stone, but do we worship the stone? Do we construct so big, big temples for worshiping a piece of stone? No. Unless one has got this connection, that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sākṣād brajendra-nandana..." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw Jagannātha Temple and immediately fainted. He saw sākṣād brajendra-nandana Hari, Kṛṣṇa, immediately. So we have to learn how to see Vaiṣṇava and Viṣṇu. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That means we have to purify our senses. Then we can see Kṛṣṇa always.

*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yam śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



One has to smear the eyes with the ointment of love, how to love Kṛṣṇa. Then one can see Kṛṣṇa always within his heart. And one who has learned this art, how to see Kṛṣṇa within himself, within his heart always... Kṛṣṇa certifies, "He's the topmost yogi."



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata antarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*These are clear things. There is no hazy idea. Everything is clear. We have to become designationless, free from designation. We shall forget. Not that "Here are some foreigners. Pick up some quarrel with them and try to drive them away. Why they have come?" So many nonsense things are going on, for want of actual spiritual education. This is not good, at least, for Vṛndāvana. This is not good. People have not been educated properly with the Vṛndāvana spirit. Therefore things are happening like that. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam: [Cc. Madhya 19.170] how to engage the senses, being freed from designation, in the service of the Lord. That is Vṛndāvana life. That is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. If there is any other purpose than this, then it is very difficult to utilize the opportunity, the fortune of living in Vṛndāvana. One has to be designationless. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "As long as one identifies himself as belonging to a certain family, a certain society, or a certain person, he is said to covered with designations. When one is fully aware that he does not belong to any family, society, or country, but is eternally related to Kṛṣṇa, he then realizes that his energy should be employed not in the interests of so*-called family, society or country, but in the interests of Kṛṣṇa. This, this is purity of purpose and the platform of pure devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: So our purpose... The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started with this summary idea, that nobody should think himself as belonging to certain family or sect or religion or country or nation. All these designations have created havoc in the world, these false designations. When I think that "This country is mine," it is a false designation. Country is not mine. I am a guest here. If I stay in a country, in a place, for, say, twenty years, fifty years, hundred years, does it, does it mean that it belongs to me? Because they have no Kṛṣṇa conscious idea, they are misled in thinking in that way. Some group of men are thinking that "This is our country. We are American," "We are Indian," "We are German." This is the false... Illusion. Actually, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He's the proprietor. But because people are not educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are thinking, "I am the proprietor." Ahaṁ mameti janasya moho 'yam [SB 5.5.8]. This ahaṁ mama, increasing the ahaṁ mama, is illusion. It is māyā. And that is going on. Therefore there is great need of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the human society. Those who are actually welfare workers, they should come forward and join this movement to spread it. Actually, it is being accepted very nicely. Although not nicely, they have begun to accept it all over the world. This is our experience. And if we present the philosophy in correct viewpoint, people will accept it. And people will accept it, and people from all parts of the world will come to Vṛndāvana. Because they are hearing about Vṛndāvana, about Kṛṣṇa, naturally they are very much anxious to visit. But if we do not receive them nicely, if we remain sectarian, oh, it will be an unfortunate thing. That is my request. Those who are inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they should be prepared to receive these foreigners, who are being educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They should come here to visit; so they should be received, they should be welcomed. That is my request. Yes. Next.



*Pradyumna: " 'The Characteristics of Pure Devotional Service.' In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Third Canto, Twenty-ninth Chapter, 10th verse, Śrīla Kapiladeva, while instructing His mother, has given the following characteristics of pure devotional service: 'My dear mother, those who are My pure devotees, and who have no desire for material benefit or philosophical speculation, have their minds so much engaged in My service that they are never interested in asking Me for anything-except to be engaged in that service. They do not even beg to live in My abode with Me.' "



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is pure devotional purpose. Natural. "Here is a Kṛṣṇa devotee." How much one should be glad to see a Kṛṣṇa devotee. Naturally, his love for a Kṛṣṇa devotee should enhance. That is pure devotion. Just like in foreign country, when one Indian meets another Indian, naturally, he has got some tendency: "Oh, wherefrom you are coming? How long you are here?" This conversation goes on. Similarly, natural flow of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that as soon as one sees a person in Vaiṣṇava symptoms, he should be eager to welcome him. He should be very much anxious to talk with him about Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa*-kathā. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. Kṛṣṇa conscious people should be so nice that as soon as they meet together, they talk about Kṛṣṇa, they try to understand about Kṛṣṇa, and they feel pleasure in that way. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. We are trying to make a Kṛṣṇa consciousness society to give this opportunity to these people, how one should be engladdened by seeing one devotee and talk with them, one another, about Kṛṣṇa, forgetting their designations. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Go on.



Pradyumna: "There are five kinds of liberation, namely, to become one with the Lord, to live with the Supreme Lord on the same planet, to have the same features as the Lord, to enjoy the same opulences as the Lord, and to live as a companion of the Lord. A devotee, not to speak of rejecting material sense gratification, does not even want any of the five kinds of liberation. He is satisfied simply by discharging loving service to the Lord. That is the characteristic of pure devotion."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is instructed by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He rejects: na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. The karmīs, they want all these things. Na dhanam. Great riches, and beautiful wife, great followers. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is rejecting these, and He's rejecting also liberation. Dhiyamanaṁ na ghṛnanti (?). A pure devotee is not interested even in liberation. That is pure devotee. That... Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he says, kīṭa janma ha*-u yathā tuyā dāsa, bahir mukha brahma janme nāhi mora āśā. A devotee does not pray that "Give me this, give me that, give me that." No. He prays that "Whatever you like, if you like me to take birth as an insect, that's all right. But my only request is that I may become an insect in the house of a devotee so that I may get the chance of prosecuting my devotional service. I may eat the remnants of foodstuff eaten by the devotee." Just like Bhārata Mahārāja, he became a deer, but he was associating with saintly persons. He understood that "I was formerly King Bhārata. My chance, my mind being absorbed in the thinking of a deer, I have become a deer. All right. Doesn't matter." So he was associating with devotees. Similarly, a devotee is not interested to become liberated, go back to home, back to Godhead. Of course, even if he's not interested, Kṛṣṇa takes him. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is natural. But that is not our... We don't pray to Kṛṣṇa for anything of sense gratification. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, mama janmani janmani īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. Ahaitukī apratihatā. Our simply, simple desire is how to be engaged in the service of the Lord. Janmani janmani. When, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaks janmani janmani, that means He rejects liberation also. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na kavitāṁ vā yāce. This is the karmī's, jñānī's... And even liberation. He rejects liberation. Mama janmani. If one is liberated, then where is the question of janmani janmani? So liberation is also not aspired by a devotee. These are the characteristics of pure devotion. This chapter is "Characteristics of Pure Devotional Service." Pure devotional service should be without any desire, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. The others, they are trying to make Kṛṣṇa-śūnyam, śūnyavādi; our attempt should be to make our desires śūnyam. Simply we be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is pure devotion. Go on, one paragraph more. What is the time now?



*Pradyumna: "In the above statement by Kapiladeva from the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, the actual position of a pure devotee is described, and the primary characteristics of devotional service are also defined. Further characteristics of devotional service are described by Rūpa Gosvāmī with evidences from different scriptures. He states that there are six characteristics of pure devotional service, which are as follows: (1) Pure devotional service brings immediate relief from all kinds of material distress. (2) Pure devotional service is the beginning of all auspiciousness."



Prabhupāda: Śrīla Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī has described,



*viśvaṁ pūrṇa*-sukhāyate vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate

*yat*-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatāṁ gauram eva stumaḥ

*(Caitanya*-candrāmṛta 5)



*When actually one comes in the platform of devotional service, for him, there is no problem. The whole world is disturbed, agitated with so many problems, but for a devotee, there is no problem. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa*-sukhāyate. And they are trying, the whole world is trying to become very big man. Somebody's trying to be very big merchant or big industrialist, or minister, or this or that, and others, they are trying to occupy the post of Indra, Candra, devata. That is competition, going on. As soon as there is some competition, even persons, demigods, like Indra, Candra, they become disturbed, and they try to stop it. But a devotee has no such concern. He's not disturbed. Because he's engaged in the service of the Lord, he feels so much happy that he has no disturbance. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. Neither he is anxious to occupy any very big post. Because for a devotee, vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate. He knows that "What is this position? Say, for some years, ten years, twenty years, fifty years, hundred years, millions years." It is limited. As soon as the limited span of life is finished, either in this world, either in this planet, or in other planets... Suppose I go to the heavenly planet, I occupy the post of Indra. What is that? It is also limited. Kṣīne puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti [Bg. 9.21]. So long you have got assets of pious activities, you can occupy such post; *then again come down. Ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. So in this way we are wandering from up, down, down, up. In this way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said,



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍe kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



We are wandering, life after life, in different species of life, different forms of life, in different planetary system. And that is going on. This is not progress. Where is progress? You are conditioned within this universe. Where is your progress? Suppose you... Just like if I jump with a limited space, where is my progress? Real progress is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If we actually want to make progress, then we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that after leaving this body there is no more coming down to accept a material body. That is real progress. Otherwise, there is no progress. It is simply wandering with a limited space. That is not progress at all. But because we are in illusion, we are thinking it is progress. It is not progress.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721103ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 3, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading) "4) Pure devotional service is rarely achieved. 5) Those in pure devotional service..."



Prabhupāda: Page number? Page number?



Pradyumna: Page 2. "Those in pure devotional service deride even the conception of liberation. 6) Pure devotional service is the only means to attract Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is all attractive, but pure devotional service attracts even Him. This means that pure devotional service is even transcendentally stronger than Kṛṣṇa Himself, because it is Kṛṣṇa's internal potency."



*Prabhupāda: So six advantages. These are the immediate result of taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Pure devotional service brings immediate relief from all kinds of material distress. There is a song of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: mānasa deha geha yo kichu mora, arpilūn tuyā pade nanda*-kiśora. The purport of this song is when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā, then we get relief from all kinds of anxieties. This is very simple to understand. Everyone is, in the material world, here, everyone is full of anxieties. That is the nature of material existence. One after another, problems. So if somebody says, assures, that "You just depend on me. I take charge of all your problems," how much relief you will feel. Just imagine. So an ordinary man, if some ordinary human being says (to) a friend that "Don't worry. I shall take charge of your all affairs. Don't worry," so we may doubt an ordinary man, because we know the capacity of an ordinary man. But when Kṛṣṇa says that "I take charge of you," then how much relief you should feel. Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary man. Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful, the Supreme Personalty of Godhead. He's Yogeśvara. He's the Absolute Truth. So when He assures that "I take charge of you...," ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66], gives assurance that "I shall get you liberated, delivered, from the reaction of all sinful activities..."



*We suffer due to our sinful activities. That is the general meaning of suffering. For pious activities we enjoy. But in this material world, either we enjoy or suffer, the common factor is suffering. Suppose if for my pious activities I get good birth, janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. By pious activities, we get birth in good family, janma; aiśvarya, we get sufficient riches, wealthy family, wealthy parents; janmaiśvarya-śruta, good education; *and śrī, beauty. These are the result of pious activities. But to take birth in the family of a king or very rich man, the sufferings of taking birth is the same. As the poor man suffers within the womb of his mother, similarly the rich man also suffers within the womb of his mother. The sufferings of taking birth is equal to the poor man and rich man. There is no difference. When there is disease, fever, it is not it is less painful to the rich man and very painful to the poor man. The pain is the same. So actually, so long there is material existence, the so*-called suffering and enjoying, they're on the same level. There is no difference. But if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66], "I shall get you relieved, released from all kinds of sinful activities." That is real auspiciousness. Means when Kṛṣṇa takes charge, He gradually educates the devotee buddhi-yogam, in devotion service, so that he may go back home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. That is real auspicity. In the material world, so-called auspicity, to become very rich, to become very educated, to become very beautiful, high parentage, they are also, in material consideration, they are auspicity, undoubtedly. But they are also adulterated with so many sufferings, threefold miseries: ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. So actually such position is not auspicity. Real auspicity is go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore it is said, pure devotional service... Pure devotional service means without any material motive. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11].

*So pure devotional service is the beginning of all auspiciousness. All*-auspiciousness means go back to home, back to Godhead. So if we stick to pure devotional service, follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, be engaged always in the service of the Lord, then ultimate gain is that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar naiti mām eti kaunteya. (reads:) "Pure devotional service automatically puts one in transcendental pleasure." Transcendental pleasure and material pleasure, there is difference. Material pleasure means sense gratification, and transcendental pleasure means satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. A devotee is satisfied seeing Kṛṣṇa is pleased. That is their satisfaction-through Kṛṣṇa. Material pleasure means direct sense perception, and spiritual pleasure means by, through Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, then the devotee is satisfied. Just like a tree, the leaves and twigs become satisfied through the root of the tree. So Kṛṣṇa is the root. Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. So transcendental pleasure mean feeling of pleasure through Kṛṣṇa. Just like the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa. Gopīs, when they saw Kṛṣṇa is pleased, they became happy, and Kṛṣṇa, when He saw that the gopīs are happy, He become happier. Again the gopīs sees that Kṛṣṇa is happier, they, again they become more happy. In this way, there is competition of happiness. The gopīs sees Kṛṣṇa happier; they feel happiness, and Kṛṣṇa sees gopīs happier; *Kṛṣṇa feels happiness. This word is described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta: dui lagi hura huri (?). This is spiritual competition.

So: "Pure devotional service automatically puts one in transcendental pleasure." In the material pleasure, if I see you happy, I am unhappy; If I see you unhappy, I become happy. This is nature. I may say otherwise, but material nature is, if one is put into difficulty, then I become very happy, and if I am happy, others become envious. This is material pleasure. Whereas spiritual pleasure means that when one sees Kṛṣṇa is happy, a devotee's happy, the other devotee becomes happier. That is spiritual pleasure. In the spiritual world there is competition, but when one is advanced, the competitor become happy: "Oh, he's so advanced. I could not do so." There is no enviousness. In the material world, if one is advanced, other, who is not advanced, he's envious. This is the difference between spiritual pleasure and material pleasure. It is not difficult to understand. Material pleasure means if you are happy, I become unhappy; if you are unhappy, then I become happy. This is material pleasure. And spiritual pleasure means by seeing your happiness, I become happy. By seeing... But there is no distress in the spiritual world. Simply by seeing the happiness of other devotee, another devotee becomes happier.

*"Pure devotional service is rarely achieved." That is the criterion. Pure devotional has got so many advantages, but it is very difficult. It is very difficult. Na janma*-koṭi-sukṛtibhiḥ na labhyate. Pure devotional service, even after endeavoring, endeavoring for millions and millions of births, it is very difficult to achieve. Pure devotional service can be achieved only through the mercy of a pure devotee. Otherwise, it is not possible.

*mahīyasāṁ pāda*-rajo 'bhiṣekaṁ

niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yāvat

naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ

spṛśata, spṛśata...

[SB 7.5.32]



*What is that? The purpose is that unless one takes the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee, it is not possible to become a pure devotee. Mahīyasāṁ pāda*-rajaḥ, mahīyasām, great personality, great devotee. Pāda-rajaḥ means the dust of the lotus feet; *abhiṣekam, taking to the, on the head. Mahīyasāṁ pāda*-rajo 'bhiṣekaṁ niṣkiñcanānām. Mahīyasām, great personality means niṣkiñcana. Bhagavad-bhakta is niṣkiñcana. He has no more material obligation. That is Bhagavad-bhakta. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, niskin..., niskin..., bhagavad, niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad bhajanon mukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajanomukha means niṣkiñcana, no material obligation, no material duty. Nāyam ṛṇī na kiṅkara rājan sarvātmanā ye śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ gato mukundam. Anyone who has completely taken shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam, giving up all other duties, tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer [SB 1.5.17], if one takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, giving up all other duties... There are so many duties. You have got duty towards your family, towards your kinsmen, towards your country, towards the animals, other living entities, your obligation to the demigods, great saintly persons, ṛṣis. We are reading Vedas, but it is given by Vyāsadeva, so we are indebted to him. Similarly, many other śāstras we read. So we are indebted. Devarṣi, ṛṣi, devatā, the demigods. We are taking sunshine. We are obliged to sun-god. We are taking moonshine. We are obliged to moonshine, uh, moon-god, the air-god, Varuṇa. Everyone, they are helping us. We cannot do without this. You cannot live without water. You cannot live without light. You cannot live without heat. So who is supplying? Of course, Kṛṣṇa is supplying, but we cannot see Kṛṣṇa directly. They are being supplied by different demigods. Therefore deva-yajña is recommended. Deva-yajña means, ultimately, to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. So these are the processes. But if one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has no more obligation to all these devatās. Devaṛsi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝṇām [SB 11.5.41]. We have got so many obligations, but if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone will be pleased, and you haven't got to oblige them by your service to them. Otherwise, you are bound to give them obeisances for their beneficial contribution.



*So devotional service is rarely achieved. Rarely achieved means if you achieve, then you become free from all obligation. Na janma*-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtibhiḥ. Tatra laulyam eka-mūlyaṁ na labhyate yad janmabhiḥ sukṛtibhiḥ. Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be achieved simply by your intense desire that "This life I shall try to achieve favor of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa will help you. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam [Bg. 10.10]. If you are actually seriously engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa gives us intelligence how to approach Him. So pure devotional service is rarely achieved. But by chance, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151], if we somehow or other come in contact with bona fide guru and Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is already there. We are already in touch. And if we are serious, then by grace of Kṛṣṇa, we get niṣkiñcana, a devotee, and by his grace we achieve to the platform of devotional service. Otherwise it is very difficult. Not by executing karma, jñāna, yoga. No. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Simply you have to take pure devotional service. Therefore it is very difficult. People do not wish to come to the pure devotional service. They want hodgepodge: something this, something that, something that. No. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... [Bg. 18.66]. That is the beginning of pure devotional service. No other engagement. Simply Kṛṣṇa. That is pure devotional service. But that is very difficult to achieve. People will not accept the simple thing. You give them big, big formulas, yoga system, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, they'll like it: "It is something." Just like in homeopathic medicine, because it has no taste, there is no trouble to drink, people do not believe in it. But if you give them some very bitter, pungent medicine, "Oh, it is something." Similarly, if you give the simple process, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā [Cc. Ādi 17.21], they'll not take it very seriously. "Oh, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one will be liberated, and he'll go back...? Oh, this is exaggeration." They will say. But if you give them some difficult job, that "You press your nose in this way, you make your head downwards, and you exercise in this way, do...," they'll think, "Yes, it is something." So things are very easy, and one can achieve very easily, but they are reluctant to take the easiest process given by Kṛṣṇa, given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇa is giving the easiest process, that "You surrender unto Me. I give you all possible help." We are not prepared to do that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll achieve the highest perfection." Not we are prepared. Therefore it is said, "Pure devotional service is rarely achieved." People will not accept the simple thing. They want to make something very difficult, then it is all right.

*"Those in pure devotional service deride even the conception of liberation." Yes. Muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān. A devotee does not care for mukti. Mukti... Why they will care for mukti? As soon as he's a pure devotee, Mukti is on his leg. Why he should try for mukti? Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura says, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān. There is no need of separate endeavor for getting liberation. It is already there. Muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān dharmārtha*-kāma-mokṣa samaya-pratīkṣāḥ [SB 4.8.41].

Devotee: It's broken.



Prabhupāda: (aside:) Eh? So don't try it. It is working?



Śyāmasundara: The fixture is broken. (conversation about light or something in background)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So "Pure devotional service is the only means to attract..." "Those in pure devotional service deride even the conception of liberation." Mukti. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī... Kaivalyam. Mukti's another name is kaivalya. "Everything is one. One, knowledge." That's all. So Prabodhananda Sarasvatī says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. This conception of liberation, that "I have become one with the Supreme," it is, to a devotee, just like hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. They do not give very much value to such conception, to become one with the Supreme. Or liberation, mukti. And the, this is mokṣa*-kāmi, those who are aspiring after... Nirbheda-brahmānu-sandhana, without any difference with the Supreme Brahman. That is called mukti, liberation. And tridaśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate. And the karmīs, they're aspiring after heavenly planets, tri-daśa-pūr. Tri-daśa means thirty. So there are more than thirty millions of demigods in different planetary systems. They are called heavenly planets. So they are ākāśa-puṣpa. Ākāśa-puṣpa means a flower does not grow in the sky; *it is something imaginary, phantasmagoria. Tri*-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate. So karmīs are interested in the ākāśa-puṣpa, heavenly planet. And the jñānīs are interested in mukti. Karmī, jñānī... And yogis are interested how to control the senses.



*So tri... Prabodhananda Sarasvatī Mahārāja says that durdānta indriya*-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī-protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. The senses are our enemies. That's all right. We also admit. The yogis try to control the senses and mind because they think of the senses just like serpent. Serpent, little touch by the lip, I mean, the tongue, immediately it causes death. So it is very dangerous. But Prabodhananda Sarasvatī says that "We are not afraid of these serpents because protkhāta daṁṣṭrāyate, the serpent is so long dangerous as long as it has got the poison teeth." Poison teeth. Protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. So if you take away the poison teeth, then, however big serpent it may be, nobody will be afraid. In the Bengali it is said, visnai kulapana cakra (?). If a serpent is known that his poison teeth has been taken away, so his big hood, hans phamsa (?), nobody will be afraid, one who knows that he has no poison teeth. A child may be afraid, but anyone knows... So for a devotee, the senses are there, but it is not like serpent. The dangerous point of sense, for sense gratification, that is taken away. That poison teeth is taken away. So therefore a devotee's not afraid of the senses. They can easily handle the senses because the senses are engaged in the service of the Lord, which means the poison teeth of the serpent of sense is taken away. Durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate.

*So pure devotional service rare... In this way, the point is that pure devotee does not give very much value to so*-called liberation. Because so-called liberation, so-called... It is in this sense that we have seen many so-called liberated persons, muk..., vimukta-māninaḥ. They considered that... Vimukta-māninaḥ. Now, you'll be pleased to hear that one of the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs in India, very well known, his disciples came to me to invite me because they are now seeing that their Māyāvāda philosophy has not been so much effective as devotional service. Practically. So they are now taking gradually to devotional service. They are trying to read Bhāgavata, although they are habituated to malinterpret. But they have no other. They have finished their job. Now they are gradually coming to bhakti-mārga. That is natural. If one is actually sincere, after suffering the distress of impersonalism, gradually they'll come to surrender to the person. Bahūnāṁ janmanāṁ ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So when one becomes devotee, jñānīs, they give too much value to liberation, mokṣa, nirbheda-brahmānusandhana. But yogis, they give too much value for controlling the senses. Karmīs, they give too much value to, to the acts of promotion to the heavenly planets. But for a devotee these things are very teeny. They don't care for these things. Neither for the karmīs, or for the jñānīs, or for the yogis. They are... Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. A bhakta who has come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, pure devotional service, he has no more any desire for the resultant action of karmīs, jñānīs, and yogis. He's so fixed up. There are many examples. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, when he was offered "Anything you want," he wanted... Actually he wanted the kingdom of his father. But when he actually became fixed up in devotional service, he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I have no more to ask anything material benediction, varam. No, I don't want." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that automatically one feels fulfillment of all desires. Therefore what they'll desire for liberation, for mukti? It is most insignificant thing.

*The next is: "Pure devotional service is the only means to attract Kṛṣṇa." You cannot attract Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, with full opulences. So you cannot attract Kṛṣṇa by your richness, by your reputation, by your education, by your beauty or by your strength or renunciation. No. You cannot attract Kṛṣṇa by all these things, because He's already full. You cannot attract by anything, any opulence, Kṛṣṇa, because He's ātmārāma. But if you offer something to Kṛṣṇa, it is for your benefit. The example is given: just like the original person is decorated, in the mirror the reflection of the person is also decorated. Similarly, if you decorate the Deity gorgeously, you will feel happy. Kṛṣṇa has many devotees, or many things for being decorated. But if you, in the temple, if you offer Kṛṣṇa all nice things, all nice flowers, all nice dress, all nice food, everything, everything, all nice, then you will feel happy. That is your interest. Therefore pure devotional service is the only means to attract Kṛṣṇa. Attract Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa will be happy in this way, that you are doing so much for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has everything, but your devotional service, that sincerity of purpose, will attract. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Do not try to see Kṛṣṇa. Render your service in such a nice way that let Kṛṣṇa see you." When Kṛṣṇa sees you, then your mission is perfect. We cannot see... Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]]. We cannot perceive Kṛṣṇa by our senses, but when our senses are engaged in satisfying Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa sees us. Svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. And when Kṛṣṇa sees us, then our life is successful. And how Kṛṣṇa can see us? Simply by our devotional service. Otherwise, you cannot satisfy Kṛṣṇa by opulence, by education, by scholarship, by beauty, riches. No. These things Kṛṣṇa has all perfectly. He's full with all these opulences. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to attract Kṛṣṇa, then be engaged in pure devotional service.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721104ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 4, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading): ...from page number two. " 'Relief from Material Distress.' In the Bhagavad*-gītā, the Lord says that one should surrender unto Him, giving up all other engagements. The Lord also gives His word there that He will protect such surrendered souls from the reaction of all sinful activities. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says that the distresses from sinful activities are due both to the sins themselves and to sins committed in our past lives."



*Prabhupāda: Now, "Relief from Material Distress." There are two kinds of activities, pious activities and impious activities. Generally we understand by performing impious activities, we suffer, and by performing pious activities, we enjoy. But actually, in the material world there is no enjoyment. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī explains that dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna. In the material world, in the world of dualities, either we think "This is pious" or either we think "This is impious," they are practically on the same platform. We take it as pleasure. Just like several times I have explained, people here in this material world, they are working very hard all day and night. And, when they gain some material profit, after working so hard, they think that "This is profit. This is happiness." Actually, where is the happiness? If one is working very hard, where is the happiness? So this is called illusion. In the śāstra it is said, "Generally, people in this material world, they are in..., in the rajo*-guṇa." Therefore hard-working activities, they take it as pleasure. If some saintly persons do not work, he is engaged in devotional service or meditation or chanting. Sometimes devotional service or meditation or chanting, sometimes it is misunderstood that these people are escaping, because they take it very nice to work very hard. Unless you work very hard, they take it as a process of escaping: "They, they're escaping the social obligation and other obligations by taking to mendicant life and living at the cost of others." So many things. So they like it, to work very hard.



*But our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is transferring that hard working to the business of Kṛṣṇa. That tendency for hard working may be utilized. Just like the Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that lust and anger, these are our enemies. Kāma*-krodha-lobha-moha-mātsarya. But Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that the kāma also can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. Kāmaṁ kṛṣṇa-karmārpane. If one is very much attached to work for Kṛṣṇa, that tendency for the karmīs to work very hard for sense gratification, it can be utilized. It can be... Similarly, krodhaṁ bhakta-dveṣi jane. Krodha, anger, is not good, but anger also can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like Hanumān, he became angry upon Rāvaṇa for the sake of Lord Rāmacandra, and he set fire in the golden city of Rāvaṇa, Lanka. So that anger was utilized for Lord Rāmacandra's service. He never utilized anger for his personal sense gratification. In this way, everything can be dovetailed in the service of the Lord, and as I was explaining to other, there are six items, how devotional service, pure devotional service, is the only means to attract Kṛṣṇa. To attract Kṛṣṇa you cannot utilize your spirit or jñānīs or yogis. You can attract Kṛṣṇa simply by devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Kṛṣṇa says plainly that "Simply by devotional service, one can understand Me." Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. So the activities of the karmīs, when dovetailed in the service of Kṛṣṇa, even by working so hard, our tendency, we can...

*Actually, devotional service depends on the main principles, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam [SB 7.5.23]. But within the category of dāsyam,... Just like Hanumān, Hanumānjī: he was engaged in the platform of dāsyam. Arjuna was engaged in the platform of sakhyam. So they were also working very hard. The Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, it was not a place of sitting down very easily and silently. When he was fighting, he was fighting just like a soldier. He took all the duties of a soldier. But it was being fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is the attraction. That is pure devotional service. Kṛṣṇa also gave him certificate: bhakto 'si priyo 'si [Bg. 4.3]. "My dear Arjuna, you are My dear friend and devotee." So by any action, if it is dovetailed for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, that is devotional service, and one can attract Kṛṣṇa, attention of Kṛṣṇa. Attention of Kṛṣṇa can be attracted by pure devotional service, without any personal motive. If it is... And that motive, that order, is received through the disciplic succession of the spiritual master, how Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. In the present condition, we do not know how Kṛṣṇa will be pleased, but we know from the śāstras... We can know also from the direction of the spiritual master how Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. So Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says you have to follow the direction of the spiritual master. He's guiding as a leader. And if he's pleased, that means Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.

*So devotional service is the only way. Karmī, karmī means they are working very hard for their personal benefit. Not for Kṛṣṇa's benefit. Similarly, jñānīs, they are also trying for personal benefit, mukti. He wants mukti, liberation, nirbheda*-brahmānu-sandhana. And similarly, yogis also, they want personal benefit, some material power, aṣṭa-siddhi-yoga, aṇimā-laghimā-siddhi. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. Caitanya-caritāmṛta Kaja says except pure devotee, who only wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, everyone is working for his personal benefit, karmī, jñānī, yogi. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Pure devotional service..." Not... Rūpa Gosvāmī says, "Pure devotional service is the only means to attract Kṛṣṇa." Now... But ignorance is no excuse. Go on reading. Next. "Generally, one commits sinful activities..."

*Pradyumna: "...due to ignorance. But ignorance is no excuse for evading the reaction*-sinful activities."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally we commit sinful activities knowingly; *if not knowingly, unknowingly. Just like we are walking on the street, we are killing so many ants, unknowingly. So that is also sinful activities. You do not know, you do not want to kill the ants, but still, unknowingly, you are killing. When you take water from the jug, there are so many animals encircling the water jug, and when you take water some of them die. When we make paste on the pestle and mortar, spices, so many small insects die. That is going on. So knowingly or unknowingly, we are committing sinful activities. So how to save? That is replied in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yajñarthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. If you do not act, or if you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, then you are becoming implicated with so many sinful activities. That is sure. Therefore one has to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness without fail. Otherwise he'll be entangled, karma-bandhanaḥ. Even if he's doing pious activities, he's becoming entangled in karma-bandhanaḥ, in bondage. He has to take birth. Pious activities means he has to take birth in nice family, rich family. That is also bandhana. He has to enter into the womb of the mother and live there for ten months, in compact, air-tight, compact bag. That is not very good living condition. But we forget all these things, neither we do not care for all these things. But actually fact is, knowingly or unknowingly, we are becoming implicated. But if we simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and if we engage ourself in His unalloyed devotional service, if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa, His activities, His form, His name, His quality, His paraphernalia, then the result will be, as Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. There is no question of reaction. Because Kṛṣṇa says... Even we are doing... That we are bound to do, as I have already explained, that, knowingly or unknowingly, we are committing sinful activities. But Kṛṣṇa gives His assurance: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. So if he ... Of course, a devotee never does anything knowingly sinful, but unknowingly, he's doing. But Kṛṣṇa is taking charge of him. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So there, there is no question of grief.



*Therefore the subject matter is relief from material distress. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any motive, sincerely, then your position is secured. Kṛṣṇa takes charge of you. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. His devotee will never be vanquished. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was considering how he could kill his kinsmen, his familymen, his nephew, his brother, his grandfather, on the other side. Actually, this killing business is not very good. It is sinful. But the same thing he committed after understanding Bhagavad*-gītā. He agreed: kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. "Yes, I shall fight." So does it mean...? In the beginning he was considering about the sinful effects of his activities. Why did he engage himself in the same business although he knew this is sinful? No. If you... Even it is acted so-called sinful activities, for Kṛṣṇa, under the order of Kṛṣṇa, for pleasing Kṛṣṇa, then that is also devotion. It is very difficult. We should not manufacture such concoction. But the fact is that, if actually one is acting for Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of sinful reaction. That's a fact. "Relief from material distress." And material distress means it is due to sinful activities. In another place, also, in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]? Karmāṇi. Everyone is being caught up by the action and reaction of karma, but a devotee is protected from the action and reaction of karma. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. So a devotee, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, remains free always, provided he's fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa conscious activities for pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Sinful activities are of two kinds: those which are mature and those which are not mature. The sinful activities for which we are suffering at the present moment are called mature. The many sinful activities stored within us for which we have not yet suffered are considered immature."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also another position. The, the reactions of our sinful activities we are suffering. As soon as we get a material body-it doesn't matter whether a rich man's body or a poor man's, poor man's body*-the material body is itself subjected to threefold miseries of this material condition. Therefore Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa: āgama apāyino anityāḥ tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. You cannot avoid the miserable condition of this body. That is not possible. So we have to tolerate. There is no other excuse. But do not create another body. That is devotional service. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. Due to our past karma, we have got a certain type of body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. By the supervision of superior order, superior vigilance, we get a certain type of body. This may be a king's body or a poor man's body, an animal body, or anything, we get. That is by superior order. So we should not create another body. That is the aim of human life. We should not create another body.



*Then, another place in the Bhāgavata it is said, nūnaṁ vikarma kurute, nūnam, prammattaḥ kurute vikarma. Prammattaḥ. Prammattaḥ. Pra means prakṛṣṭa*-rūpeṇa. Mattaḥ, mad. We are living entities. We have come here in this material world for sense enjoyment, and we are therefore mad after it, prammattaḥ. So nūnaṁ prammattaḥ kurute vikarma. Vikarma means which is against the laws. Just like karma, akarma, vikarma. These are explained. So vikarma means against the law. The Vedic version, they give us that "You should work in this way." But if we do not act according to the Vedic injunctions, that is called vikarma. And we become subjected to sufferings, impious activities. But we do it because we are mad after sense gratification. We do not care. Just like a thief, he knows that by stealing he'll be punished, but still, because he's mad after stealing, he'll do it, taking the risk of being arrested and being harassed. Nūnaṁ prammattaḥ vikarma, nūnaṁ prammattaḥ kurute, yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. And they are mad after doing all this nonsense only for sense gratification. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, na sādhu manye, "This is not good." Yata ātmano 'yam. "As we have got this body, material body miserable..." Because as soon as you get a material body, you are put into the miserable condition of material nature. So we should not create another body so that we shall be put into, under tribulation again. That is intelligence.

*So if we put ourself in the activities of devotional service, we save that risk. Not to create another body. If we do for indriya*-prīti, yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti, then we create another body. But if you act in devotional service, then, even there are something, sinful activities, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. So for a devotee, he's saved. He's saved from creating another new material body. In this way, the stress is given that sinful or not sinful, we should not create another body. Karma-kāṇḍa. In the... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says:

*karma*-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali viṣera bhāṇḍa

amṛta baliyā yeba khāya

nānā yoni brahman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare

*tāra janma adhah*-pāte yāya



*We should not take either to karma, karma*-kāṇḍa, fruitive activities for elevating to the heavenly planets; *jñāna*-kāṇḍa, for stopping birth and death and merge into the impersonal Brahman... That is jñāna-kāṇḍa. So karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says everything is viṣa bhāṇḍa, the poison pot. Why poison pot? Karma-kāṇḍa amṛta yeba baliyā khāya. If we drink poison pot, thinking it as nectar, then the result will be that we have to accept another body and we have to be under the tribulation of material nature. And sometimes we get the body of the King of Heaven, and sometimes we get the body of a hog for eating stool. This is going on. Nānā yoni brahman kare. We have to wander in different species of life and we have to eat all abominable things. Tāra janma adhah-pāte yāya.



*So we should not spoil our life in that way, for creating another body. We should be very careful that we may not create another material body. And what is that safety position? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, how Kṛṣṇa takes His birth, how He becomes the son of Devakī, son of Nanda Mahārāja, how He becomes the son of Yaśodā, these things, if we study, if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa, if we don't accept Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man*-avajānati māṁ mūḍhā-then, in this way, if we understand the science of Kṛṣṇa, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128], if one understands the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. It doesn't matter whether one is brāhmaṇa or one is a śūdra or one is a sannyāsī or one is a gṛhastha. It doesn't matter. If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128], if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa... Yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. How that tattvataḥ, the truth can be understood, that is also explained by the Lord Himself: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. You cannot understand in truth, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa in truth by other process, karma, jñāna, yoga. No. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55].

*So we have to take to devotional service. Then we shall understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will reveal. If you are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service constantly, teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajataṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. If you have devoted, heart and soul, for service of Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is within your self. He'll give you intelligence. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. He'll give you intelligence. He'll purify your heart. He'll purify your position. As you have read in the beginning of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

*vidhunoti suhṛt*-satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*If you simply hear about Kṛṣṇa. The process... To... Kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā means to hear about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Try to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Satāṁ prasaṅgād mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. That is very, what is called, potential. Simply if you hear from the right source of Kṛṣṇa*-not from the professional, or from jñānīs, karmīs, or politicians. No. Pure devotee. Satāṁ prasaṅgād: in pure devotional service, in pure devotional mood. Then the potency will act and you will, we shall become more devotees. Khanera gītā diya mora me pasile mora me pasile (?). It will act. And as soon as it will act, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your life becomes successful, above all sinful or pious activities. What is that? Samatītyaitān. Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān [Bg. 14.26]. Samatītya. Samyag atītya. You can perfectly overcome the influence of the guṇas, the three modes of material nature.



*Because our suffering is due to association of the three guṇas. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. We are getting different types of body, either as a king or as a dog. Sat, asat. We think, "The king's body is very nice. Dog's body is not good." But whatever body we get, material body, that is not very good. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. Any body, any type of body you get, you must suffer. It doesn't matter, European body, American body or Indian body or this body or that body. If we think, "Now we are Americans. We are very happy. You are Indians. You are poor..." No. Either poor or happy, it is all unhappiness. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad. That is, means association with the modes of material nature. But if you engage yourself twenty-four hours in Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, in devotional service, then sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26], immediately you are on the brahma-bhūtaḥ position, liberated position. So just like one man is suffering from disease. Some way or other, if he comes in the, what is called, convalescent stage? Means freed from the diseased condition. But if he keeps that convalescent stage rightly, he do not, what is called, again...?

Devotee: Relapse.



*Prabhupāda: Relapse. If you do not relapse the disease, then you are nice. Similarly, to keep in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you are not diseased condition, but do not allow the disease to relapse. That means do not deviate from the devotional service. Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate. Avyabhicāriṇi. Don't misuse the devotional service. Then you are all right. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Then you keep yourself always in transcendental position, brahma-bhūtaḥ position. And then from brahma-bhūtaḥ position, you can elevate yourself to the parā bhakti, spontaneous. Parā bhakti means spontaneously, spontaneous devotional service. Automatically, you will be loving Kṛṣṇa.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*The under, after being in the brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage, that devotional service is very sound. Parā bhakti. Otherwise, if we stick to the devotional service of temple worship... Just like one is performing temple worship, regulative principles... That is also... We should go forward. This is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ.



*So we must elevate ourself to the second class devotee position. To become first*-class devotee, that is very difficult job. We can expect after executing devotional service as a madhyama-adhikārī. Then we can be promoted. But if we keep ourself simply on the lower stage of devotional service, then there is chance of falling down. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Simply... Just like, generally, they keep in the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī stage. Of course, there is no loss. In any adhikāra, in any position, you are benefited because you have taken to devotional service. But our attempt should be from kaniṣṭha-adhikāra to madhyama-adhikāra. Madhyama-adhikāra means preacher. Unless one comes to the madhyama-adhikāra, he cannot preach. Because in the uttama-adhikāra there is no need of preaching, because uttama-adhikāra, he sees everything good. He does not think anyone is lacking Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He says everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious, "Simply I am not Kṛṣṇa conscious." Just like Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi sei lagiṣṭha [Cc. Ādi 5.205]. He sees himself lower than the worm in the stool... But he's not so, but he thinks like that. So uttama-adhikārī, it is not to be imitated. One must keep himself in the madhyama-adhikārī stage. Madhyama-adhikārī stage means that one knows what is Kṛṣṇa, īśvara, one knows who is Kṛṣṇa's devotee. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu. And one knows who is innocent, neither devotee nor nondevotee, and he knows who is nondevotee. This is preaching. In kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he knows simply how to worship the Deity. Arcāyām eva haraye śraddhayā pūjāṁ śraddhayehate.

*So it is the duty of the spiritual master to promote the devotees from the kaniṣṭha*-adhikāra to the madhyama-adhikāra. Not to keep them. My Guru Mahārāja, sometimes he used to lament because so many disciples he had, but nobody was coming out very nice preacher. He was lamenting, "So only kaniṣṭha-adhikārīs, we are keeping simply people in the kaniṣṭha-adhikāra and engaging them in the arcana-mārga." So that is not required. They should not... A kaniṣṭha-adhikārī does not know who is a devotee, na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, what is the duty to others. He is very busy in temple worship for his personal interest. That is also good. But one has to promote further to become a madhyama-adhikārī and then analyze who is God, who is devotee, who is innocent, who is nondevotee, and behave in that way. So their business is to make friendship with devotee, to love Kṛṣṇa, and to the innocent, preach, to enlighten them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And those who are atheists, to avoid them. These four principles. So in this way, we should execute our devotional service. Then our life will be viśvaṁ pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate. It will be very happy life. That is the heading, subject matter, "Relief from Material Distress." Immediately. If we actually keep ourself in devotional service according to the description given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, then we keep ourself fit in devotional service and there is no question of material distress.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*Acyutānanda: ...says first*-class, second-class and third-class devotees, they are pure devotees.



Prabhupāda: Yes, pure devotee is anyone who has no other motive except to serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter he's first class, second class or third... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. If he has got some motive, then he's not pure devotee. He may be not advanced, but if he has not motive, then he's pure devotee. If he wants to utilize Kṛṣṇa for his personal benefit, then he's not pure devotee. He's impure. So first of all he has to become pure devotee. (end)





721105ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 5, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "...committed criminal acts but is not yet arrested for them. Now, as soon as he is detected, arrest is awaiting for him. Is awaiting him. Similarly, for some of our sinful activities we are awaiting distresses in the future, and for others, which are mature, we are suffering at the present moment. In this way..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the chain of accepting different types of bodies, one after another. According to the sinful activities. On the total, without being sinful, nobody accepts this material body. Because in the Bhagavad*-gītā we understand: yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam, "One who has finished the reaction of his sinful activities," te dvandva-moha-nirmukta... [Bg. 7.28]. Yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām... Puṇya-karma. Puṇya-karma means the sublime puṇya-karma is devotional service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. This is the topmost puṇya-karma. Because, as it is stated in the Bhāgavata, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Simply if we hear about Kṛṣṇa, that is puṇya. Even you do not understand, do not take it very seriously, if we simply give aural reception to the words of Kṛṣṇa, that activity itself is puṇya. Puṇya-śravaṇa kīrtanaḥ. So one who has got, I mean, advanced in hearing about Kṛṣṇa, that is the result of multiforms of multivarieties of pious activities. Vāsudeva-kathā-ruciḥ [SB 1.2.16]. Vāsudeva-kathā-ruciḥ is the resultant action... Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. These words are used. Just like when the cowherds boys were playing with Kṛṣṇa, Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "These boys are kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Heaps of pious activities they have performed; therefore they have got this chance of playing personally with the Supreme Personality of Godhead."



*So, so long we are tinged with sinful activities, we have to accept different varieties of body, either the body of Lord Brahmā or the body of an ant, indragopa, a small microbic insect, yas tv indragopam athavendram aho sva-karma [Bs. 5.54]. From this indragopa, the microscopic insect which is called indragopa insect, from this indragopa insect, to the real Indra, the King of Heaven, everyone is suffering or enjoying-actually it is suffering*-the resultant action of his karma. It doesn't matter what kind of body a living entity has got, but the body itself is the symptom, is the sign that one is sinful. This is the conclusion of the śāstra. Because as soon as one is free from sinful activities, at that time, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. So our, this material body is achieved due to sinful activities. And sinful activities are performed due to ignorance. Therefore knowledge is essential. Jñāna-vairāgya. These two things are essential in human life: knowledge and renunciation. Renunciation means sinful activities. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In this way there is a chain of sinful activities and their concomitant distresses, and the conditioned soul is suffering life after life due to these sins. He is suffering in the present life the results of sinful activities from his past life, and he is meanwhile creating further suffering for his future life. Mature sinful activities are exhibited if one is suffering from some chronic disease, if one is suffering from some legal implication, or if one is born in a low and degraded family, or if one is uneducated or very ugly."



Prabhupāda: Hmmm. So the soul is within this body, encaged. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Due to ignorance, he is committing... Say, for, in our eating process, we are eating so many things out of ignorance which we should not eat, and creating the sinful reaction. Nānā yoni bhraman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says things which are not eatables, we eat, and we circumambulate various types of body. Nānā yoni bhraman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. Just like the hog is eating stool, kadarya, a very abominable thing, but it is eating. Similarly, many other forms of body. You are eating very abominable things on account of your particular type of body, and this is due to ignorance. And this ignorance is our greatest enemy. The human form of life is meant for acquiring knowledge, not to keep one in ignorance. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. That is the Vedic injunction. "Don't keep yourself in darkness," darkness of ignorance. But jyotir gamaḥ: "Go to the light." That is the Vedic injunction.



*So the best knowledge, He's giving, Kṛṣṇa Himself: Bhagavad*-gītā. He's coming personally to give knowledge. But we are so unfortunate, we are not accepting the knowledge given by Kṛṣṇa. We are hankering after some other knowledge given by some defective human being. A human being cannot give us any perfect knowledge. Therefore all the scientists' statements, all the philosophers' statements, they are simply theories; they are not fact. Because the knowledge is not perfect. Perfect knowledge can be had from one who is not defective. Defective means generally a conditioned soul has four defects: he commits mistake, he is illusioned, he has got a cheating propensity, and his senses are imperfect. The senses, we are acquiring knowledge through our senses, and if our senses are imperfect, how we can acquire perfect knowledge? Just like we are trying to see the planetary system through microscope or binocular, telescope, but the telescope machine is manufactured by a person who is, whose senses are defective. So through the telescope, how you can have perfect knowledge? Therefore one astronomer is placing some theory. After some years, that is made null and void; another theory is presented. Because everyone's knowledge is imperfect. So we cannot expect perfect knowledge from the imperfect person. So our process of knowledge is different. Our pro..., Vedic process of knowledge is,

*tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet

*samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



One has to accept a guru, a spiritual master, who has received knowledge from another perfect spiritual master. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the origin, perfect spiritual master, guru. So Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa said, was realized by Arjuna, directly. Therefore if we receive knowledge from Arjuna or his disciplic succession, then our knowledge is perfect. Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Brahman: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So if we accept the version of Arjuna, that Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman, He's the Supreme Person, He's the origin of everything, then our knowledge is perfect. I may be imperfect, but because I receive knowledge from a perfect person, my knowledge is perfect. This is called paramparā system.



*So in order to dissipate our ignorance, we should receive perfect knowledge. Then we can stop our sinful activities. Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā, Bhagavān says, Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyam. Kṛṣṇa appears, Kṛṣṇa lives here, He teaches, He acts. If we simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then we become perfect, so much so that after giving up this body... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... [Bg. 4.9]. Without being perfect, without being free from all sinful reactions, we have to undergo the tribulation of accepting different types of body. But as soon as we become perfect through the perfect knowledge, then automatically we become uncontaminated from this material world and we become liberated. Liberated means, as I have several times explained, to be situated in his original position. Just like a, a person gets fever. When his fever is subsided, he's liberated, he's called liberated from the fever. Similarly, when we have perfect knowledge... What is that perfect knowledge? The perfect knowledge: to understand that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is perfect knowledge. This is perfect knowledge. Jīvera svarūpa haya nityera kṛṣṇera dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. One has to understand this fact, that "I am not Kṛṣṇa. I am not like Kṛṣṇa. I am not equal to Kṛṣṇa. I cannot become Kṛṣṇa. I am Kṛṣṇa's eternal servant." This is taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayoḥ dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. He, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, says, "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not a śūdra. I am not a brahmacārī. I am not a sannyāsī." In this way... Because we identify with the varṇāśrama-dharma: "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," "I am brahmacārī," "I am gṛhastha," "I am kṣatriya." These are our designations. But when we become designation-free, then "I am not brāhmaṇa, I am not brahmacārī, I am not this, I am not that. I am simply pure servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is knowledge. Our otherwise, anything we identify, that is ignorance. This is knowledge.

*So... And when we come to this knowledge, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then I am liberated. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. I am accepting a different type of body and different type of position, and I am identifying myself with that particular position. That is my ignorance. Although I am acting just like a perfect brāhmaṇa or perfect kṣatriya or perfect vaiśya, still, I am imperfect, because my perfection is not to act as a vaiśya, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, American, Indian, but to act as servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is liberation. That is liberation. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam means liberation. That nirmalam means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. The Vaiṣṇava process is to become nirmalam. Tat-paratvena. A real, pure Vaiṣṇava simply identifies himself as a servant of Kṛṣṇa; therefore he's nirmalam, he's liberated. He does not identify himself as a kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, American, Indian. No. That is not his position. But so long I stick to this designation, I am not nirmala, I am samala, "with dirty things." So we have to be relieved from these dirty things and come to the original position of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then our sinful activities and its reaction will be counteracted. Go on.

Pradyumna: "There are many results of past sinful activities for which we are suffering at the present moment, and we may be suffering in the future due to our present sinful activities, but all of these reactions to sinful deeds can immediately be stopped if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "As evidence for this..."



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, automatically we become immune from sinful activities. The devotional service... The mind, being engaged on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, as Ambarīṣa Mahārāja did: sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane... [SB 9.4.18]. Ambarīṣa Mahārāja was very responsible emperor of the world, but he fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and he engaged his words simply: vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane, simply describing the qualities, the transcendental qualities of Kṛṣṇa. He used his eyes to see the Deity, he used his legs to go to the temple, he used his hands for cleansing the temple, he used his nose for smelling the flower and tulasī offered to Kṛṣṇa, he used his tongue for tasting Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. In this way, he engaged all his senses in the service of the Lord. So there was no chance of committing sinful activities by his body. It is, it can be done by everyone. Everyone can install Deity at his home and regularly worship the Deity according to the injunction of the śāstras and spiritual master and eat prasādam and hear Vaik..., Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, chant and speak Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is simple life. And one can become immune from all sinful reactions. The simple thing. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "As evidence for this, Rūpa Gosvāmī quotes from the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Fourteenth Chapter, 18th verse. This verse is in connection with Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction to Uddhava, where He says, 'My dear Uddhava, devotional service unto Me is just like a blazing fire, which can burn into ashes unlimited fuel supplied to it.' The purport is that as the blazing fire can burn any amount of fuel to ashes, so devotional service to the Lord in Kṛṣṇa consciousness can burn up all the fuel of sinful activities. For example, in the Gītā, Arjuna thought that fighting was a sinful activity, but Kṛṣṇa engaged him on the battlefield under His order, and so the fighting became devotional service. Therefore, Arjuna was not subjected to any sinful reaction."



Prabhupāda: Yes. So the example is that the, in the fire, you go on giving fuel perpetually, it will burn into ashes. Similarly, it doesn't matter. To become sinful... Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone is sinful. So to become sinful is not disqualification, because everyone is sinful. But if one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just like the fire, and the sinful activities are just like wood. But when the wood is in touch with the fire, so the fire would burn all the woods, fuel, into ashes. But we should not... Once we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we should stop the pillars of sinful activities. Whatever we did in our past life, that is excused, but if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if we go on with our sinful activities, that will not help us. Just like the same fire: you take the fuel and add to the fire, it will burn into ashes. But, at the same time, if you pour some water also, then it will be useless. Similarly, our past sinful activities, that can be burned into ashes provided we don't add any more. Don't take it: "Now it will burn into ashes. So go on, this business and that business." No. That business means pouring water into the fire. It will not burn. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī quotes another verse from the Third Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Thirty-third Chapter, 6th verse, in which Devahūti addresses her son, Kapiladeva, and says, 'My dear Lord, there are nine different kinds of devotional service, beginning from hearing and chanting. Anyone who hears about Your pastimes, who chants about Your glories, who offers You obeisances, who thinks of You, and in this way executes any of the nine kinds of devotional service-even if he is born in a family of dog-eaters (the lowest grade of mankind)-becomes immediately qualified to perform sacrifices.' "



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. This is the verse. Actually we have seen it. Last time, when I was coming via Philippines, so we have got a center there, and it is very nicely organized within six months by one of our devotees, Siddha*-svarūpa, Siddha-svarūpānanda Mahārāja, and his colleague. So it is very nicely organized. And they are actually dog-eaters. These Philippines, they're dog-eaters. In these parts of the world, the Koreans, the Philippines, even the Chinese, some of the Japanese, they're dog-eaters. But even though they are dog-eaters, they attended the meeting and chanted with us so nicely, better than a so-called Vaiṣṇava in India. Yes. They were so nice. It is practically seen. So that is also stated in the, confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. If one dog-eater, a person born in the family of dog-eaters... Because the dog-eaters are considered lowest of the human kind, caṇḍāla, śva-paca. In many places it is said. Aho bata śvapaco 'pi garīyān yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam. Śva-paca. Śvapaca means dog-eaters. They also become glorious provided they chant offenselessly the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Aho bato śvapaco 'to garīyān yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyāṁ.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us... It is in the śāstra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has pointed out... The ācārya's business... Everything is there in the śāstra. Ācārya does not invent anything. That is not ācārya. Ācārya simply points out, "Here is the thing." Just like in the darkness of night we cannot see anything perfectly or cannot see anything, but the, when there is sunrise, the sunrise, effect of sunrise is that we can see things as they are. The things are not manufactured. There is already... The things are al... The houses, the town and the everything is there, but when there is sunrise we can see everything nicely. Similarly, ācārya, or incarnation, they do not create anything. They simply give the light to see things as they are. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu pointed out this verse from Bṛhad*-nāradīya Purāṇa. The, the verse was already in the Bṛhad-nāradīya Purāṇa.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*This verse was already there in the Bṛhad-nāradīya Purāṇa, the indication of our activities in the age of Kali. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He pointed out. Although He is Kṛṣṇa Himself*-He could manufacture so many things-but He did not do so. That is ācārya. Ācārya will not manufacture any new type of religion, a new type of phrase of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is not potent. The... Just like Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This is in the śāstra. So that is potential. Now if we add and subtract something from these sixteen words, that is my manufacture. That will have not the potency. They do not understand it. They are thinking if they can manufacture some new line, adding with Hare Kṛṣṇa, then he becomes particularly noted. But he spoils the whole thing. That is the... He does not make any new thing. The new thing he does, he spoils the whole thing. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu never did so, although He's Kṛṣṇa Himself. He stuck to the point of śāstra. Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He also indicates: yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na siddhiṁ sāvāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. He indicates that nobody can give up the injunction of the śāstra. Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ [Bg. 13.5]. Kṛṣṇa says. He can give. Whatever He says, that is śāstra, that is Veda. But still, He gives reference to the śāstra.



So ācārya's duty is to point out the śāstric injunction. They're already there in the Vedas. His duty is... Just like there are so many medicines. If you go to a drug shop, all of them are medicines, but the experienced physician, he gives you a medicine which is particularly suitable for you. You cannot say, "Sir, why you are selecting medicine? You can give any one bottle." That is nonsense. Not any one. The particular body, a particular bottle, and a particular medicine which is suitable for you, the experienced physician gives you. He's ācārya. So you cannot say that "Everything is medicine; *whichever bottle I take, that's all right." No. That's not. This is going on. Yata mata tata patha. Why yata mata tata patha? The particular mata which is suitable for you at a particular time, that should be accepted, not any other mata. So similarly, in this age, in this Kali*-yuga, where people are very short-living, duration of life is very short, they are unfortunate, they're very slow, and they take to unauthorized means of religious principles, they're prone to so many disturbances of life... Therefore this particular medicine for this age, as given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*Prabhu kahe, ihā haite sarva*-siddhi haibe tomāra.



*So we should take the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who has especially incarnated Himself in this age, Kali*-yuga. Kalau saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. This is the śāstric injunction.

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*This is the injunction in the śāstra, that this form of the Lord, who is accompanied by His associate... Sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is always associated with Śrī Advaita Prabhu, Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu, Śrī Gadādhara Prabhu, Śrī Śrīvāsa Prabhu. Therefore the process of worship is śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. That is perfect process. Not to cut short. No. As it is indicated. This is indication in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tvisakṛṣṇaṁ sangopangastra... [SB 11.5.32]. So when we have to worship Lord Caitanya, we worship with His associates. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. No cut-short method. So that is sastric injunction. So in order to get rid of the sinful activities of this age, it is already prescribed in the śāstras and confirmed by the greatest authority, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So we should all take to this maha-mantra, chant



Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





721106ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 6, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "...for anyone who is actually engaged in devotional service in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how is it possible that he has not become purified? It is not possible. One who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service has without doubt become freed from all contaminations of material sinful activities. Devotional service therefore has the power to actually nullify all kinds of reactions to sinful deeds. A devotee is nevertheless always alert not to commit any sinful activities; *this is his specific qualification as a devotee. Thus the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam states that by performing devotional service a person who was born even in a family of dog-eaters may become eligible to take part in the performance of the ritualistic ceremonies recommended in the Vedas. It is implicit in this statement that a person born into a family of dog-eaters is generally not fit for performing yajña, or sacrifice. The priestly caste in charge of performing these ritualistic sacrifices, ritualistic ceremonies recommended in the Vedas, is called the brāhmaṇa order. Unless one is a brāhmaṇa, he cannot perform these ceremonies. A person is born in a brāhmaṇa family or in a family of dog-eaters due to his past activities. If a person is born in a family of dog-eaters, it means that his past activities are all sinful. But even..., if even such a person takes to the path of devotional service and begins to chant the holy names of the Lord-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare*-he is at once fit to perform the ritualistic ceremonies. This means that his sinful reactions have immediately become neutralized."



*Prabhupāda: Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. It is commented by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī that a, a person born in the brāhmaṇa family waits for being initiated as twice*-born. To take birth in the family of a brāhmaṇa is not sufficient qualification. He has to study the Vedas; he has to be initiated with thread ceremony; *so many ritualistic performances. Daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. So the distinction is being made by Jīva Gosvāmī that a brāhmaṇa, son of a brāhmaṇa, awaits so many ritualistic ceremonies before he is competent to perform yajña. Not that because he's born of a brāhmaṇa father, therefore he becomes eligible to perform yajña. He requires primarily so much purificatory methods. But a Vaiṣṇava, one who has taken to devotional service, for him, it is said, sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. As soon as he becomes a devotee, he becomes eligible to perform yajña. Savanāya kalpate. That means preference is given to the devotee (more) than to the son of a brāhmaṇa. A devotee, although born in the family of dog-eaters, the lowest of the mankind, but if he's Vaiṣṇava, initiated, dīkṣā-vidhānena, then he becomes eligible to perform sacrifice. That is officially accepted, that a Vaiṣṇava, even born of dog-eaters' family... Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye'nye ca pāpā [SB 2.4.18]. These are the list of low-grade human society, kirāta-hūṇāndhra. And there may be others also. (Hindi) There may be others. Ye 'nye ca pāpā. Anye*-any kinds of sinful man, śudhyanti yad-upāśrayāśrayāḥ, if such men take shelter of a pure devotee, then he purifies him. Śudhyanti.



*One may question how he becomes purified. He's born in a family of dog*-eaters. How he becomes purified? It requires... According to Smārta consideration, he requires next birth. There are two processes of Vedic understanding, Smārta-vicāra and Gosvāmī-vicāra. According to Smārta-vicāra, unless a person born in a low-grade family takes another birth, he cannot be eligible to become a brāhmaṇa. But according to Gosvāmī-vicāra, if he's properly initiated by a bona fide Vaiṣṇava, then he becomes more than a brāhmaṇa. Śvādyo 'pi sadyaḥ. Immediately he becomes eligible to perform sacrifices. so the problem is that at the present moment we are not taking care... I mean that our Indian brāhmaṇas, those who are spiritual leaders, they are not actually taking care of the fallen souls. But in the Bhagavad-gītā it is sanctioned, it is said clearly: māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Any person born of low-grade family, pāpa-yoni, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim... So it is the duty of the elevated person, brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, to take charge of this business. Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Never mind one is born in low-grade family, but he can go back to home, back to Godhead. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. So who will take the initiative to elevate these persons? Unless one who is expert does take interest for elevating these fallen souls, then how they will be elevated? This is problem. But we are not careful about these affairs. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore indicated that,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is paropakāra. Those who are born in low-grade family... The most regrettable fact is that in India the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, they did not take care of the fallen souls. Once one becomes, somehow or other, a Muhammadan, he has no more chance to come back to the Hindu society. This policy was being followed. And therefore the result is that these fallen souls, whom we call fallen souls, the Muhammadans, they partitioned. Now we are crying. Not only that. I think, from historical point of view, this whole planet was India, Bhārata-varṣa. This planet was called Bhārata-varṣa*-not this portion of land. But because gradually the Vedic culture became diminished, they separated from this Vedic culture, as we have got actual experience, and within twenty years the Pakistan is taken away from India.



*So if follow that policy that one who is born in India as brāhmaṇa, except him, nobody can become brāhmaṇa, then this Vedic civilization will be, in due course of time, lost. We should be very careful. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading Vedic culture outside India. And they are welcoming it, those who are intelligent, they are welcoming it. They are accepting it. We should encourage them. Instead of discouraging this movement, we should encourage, so that the whole world can be united on the platform of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If we simply hate low*-grade families, low-grade men, that will not solve the problem. Just like when there was political movement in India, the Britishers, they presented so many problems. Just like the untouchables, the Muhammadans, and so many things. The Britishers they put forward these problems (because) they were not willing to separate the British rule. Only some high class, higher section of the Hindus, they are trying to separate the British rule. At that time, Gandhi stamped the camaras (?) and the bhaṅgis as harijana. But means as soon as there was the word "harijana," immediately a person would be considered coming from the camaras and the bhaṅgis. But such exalted title, harijana, is offered to personalities like Nārada, Brahma, those who are actually associates with Hari. But according to śāstra, there is no objection to accept these camaras and the bhaṅgis or any low-grade family to make him harijana, provided he accepts the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in a regular way, by the Vaiṣṇava vidhāna. Just (as) recommended by the Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī: tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. Dīkṣā-vidhānena, by the proper initiative process, one can become dvija, twice-born. Nṛṇām. Tathā, yathā kāñ...,

yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti

*kāṁsyaṁ rasa*-vidhānena

*tathā dīkṣā*-vidhānena

dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām



*This is the injunction of Sanātana Gosvāmī. Just like by chemical manipulation, by mercury, with kāṁsya, bell metal... This is the suggestion given by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that, as bell metal can be transformed into gold by mixing with mercury, similarly*-it is a question of manipulating-similarly, by expert manipulation, even a, any man, not low or high, it doesn't matter, any man can be transformed into a brāhmaṇa, dvija, twice-born.



*So this is recommended not only by Sanātana Gosvāmī... By Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śukadeva Gosvāmī in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śudhyanti prabha viṣṇave namaḥ. He recommends that one, when one becomes a Vaiṣṇava by the supreme power of Viṣṇu, prabha viṣṇave namaḥ... He has got so much power that He can turn a low-grade man into a great Vaiṣṇava. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was born in Muhammadan family, and he was made Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Nāmācārya, "the ācārya." Caitanya Mahāprabhu actually appeared for glorifying the holy name of the Lord. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32], always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu especially incarnated, advented Himself for spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who was born in a Muhammadan family, he, he was made the Namācārya, the authority of spreading this holy name. Similarly, Sanātana Gosvāmī, they become Muhammadans. At least, formerly. His name was also changed: Sākara Mallika, Dabira Khāsa. And they were made the prime ministers of spreading this saṅkīrtana movement, the Caitanya cult, Sanātana. We are sitting here (in) Rūpa Gosvāmī's place. So officially, they become Muhammadan, but by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they became Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. Ei chay gosāñi tāhra mui dāsa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that "These six Gosvāmīs, anyone who accepts these six Gosvāmīs as authority, spiritual masters, I am his servant." Therefore we Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, we are known as Rūpānuga Vaiṣṇava, following the footsteps of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī.

*So this is the process. So by following the footsteps of Rūpa Gosvāmī, the whole world become, can become purified. Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ sayanāya kalpate. Not only purified, but they are purified so much so that they can be allowed to perform yajñas. Because performing yajña was entrusted to high*-class brāhmaṇa, who is very expert in mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, not ordinary brāhmaṇa. So a Vaiṣṇava is recommended to take charge of performing sacrifices. Śvādo'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. So this is the exalted position. Haridāsa Ṭhākura... Actually, this was exemplified by Gadādhara, yes, Advaita Prabhu. Advaita Prabhu happened to be at that time the president of the brāhmaṇa society, very learned scholar and Vaiṣṇava; *and He was entrusted to be the president of brāhmaṇa society in Śāntipūra. So when He performed the ritualistic ceremony after the death of His father, funeral ceremony, He offered the first prasādam to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. So Haridāsa Ṭhākura was little shy, accepting, that "Advaita Prabhu, You have exalted me in so many ways, but You..." Because according to the smārta*-vidhāna, when one is performing the funeral ceremony of his father, the first portion would be offered to the best of the brāhmaṇas. So it was offered to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. So Haridāsa Ṭhākura felt little shyness, that "Advaita Prabhu, You love me. That is all right. But You are doing all these things. You may be socially ostracized." So Advaita Prabhu said, "No. By feeding you, I am feeding one crores of best brāhmaṇas. And let any brāhmaṇa come to Me. I shall convince him." That was His statement.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we can accept anyone-it doesn't matter wherefrom he's coming*-and make him a pure Vaiṣṇava. And following the footsteps of Advaita Prabhu, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, these Vaiṣṇavas from foreign countries, those who are actually purified by the process of initiation, they should be accepted. They should not be neglected. Unfortunately, there is some silent protest that I am ruining the Hindu religion because I am initiating the Europeans and Americans. Therefore I am ruining Hindu religion. There is a grudge against me. But you can just consider these points that I am going strictly according to the regulation given by the Gosvāmīs and the śāstras. Śāstra allows. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Pāpa-yoni, it doesn't matter, if he takes regularly the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa... And Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered that

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*He predicted. Practically we are trying to carry out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered that anyone who has taken birth as human being in Bhārata*-varṣa, he should engage his life for paropakāra. And he said also, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma: "All over the town, all over the world, as many towns and villages are there, My name will be established there." So we are trying to do that. So His name should be established does not mean that they should remain as yavanas or mlecchas, and simply they should simply know Lord Caitanya. No. Actually the fact is that everyone should be elevated to the position of Vaiṣṇava, purified Vaiṣṇava, as it is recommended in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. They, they should be made into brāhmaṇas by qualifying them as brāhmaṇa.



*So the first condition is that anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a bona fide initiated member, he gives up all these abominable habits: no illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. They have given up even smoking cigarette, even drinking tea, coffee. So they are all, after being qualified, they are accepted as Vaiṣṇava and properly initiated. So they cannot be neglected as other than brāhmaṇas. That is not very good proposition. They are, according to śāstra, they are qualified. It may be due to some past habits, they may commit some mistake, unconsciously. Consciously, no Vaiṣṇava commits any mistake, but maybe due to habit. That is also protected by Kṛṣṇa. Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Even there are some discrepancies, but if the only one qualification is there, that he's sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness rigidly, he's sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. He's not to be neglected. So these Europeans, Americans devotees, according to the enunciation given by Rūpa Gosvāmī, as it is supported by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, as it is supported by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, as it is supported by Sanātana Gosvāmī, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they are regularly initiated Vaiṣṇavas. They should not be neglected. That will be vaiṣṇava-aparādha, offenses unto the Vaiṣṇava. Out of all kinds of aparādhas, offenses, vaiṣṇava-aparādha is the most dangerous. Most dangerous. So vaiṣṇava-aparādha is not excused by Viṣṇu. The instance is... What is called? Su... I forget his name. Ambarīṣa and...?

Devotee: Durvāsā?



*Prabhupāda: Durvāsā. Yes, Durvāsā Muni. Durvāsā Muni, because he offended to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he was not excused even by Viṣṇu. He had to fall down on the feet of Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. Yes. Ambarīṣa upākhyāna. So vaiṣṇava*-aparādha is the greatest offense. Even a great sage like Durvāsā was not excused. He was so great, Durvāsā, that he could go personally to all the lokas, Brahma-loka, Śiva-loka, Viṣṇuloka. Personally he could go, by his yogic power. Just imagine how much he was powerful. He saw face to face Lord Viṣṇu and requested Him to give him protection from the sudarśana-cakra, and Viṣṇu refused: "So I cannot give you protection because you are offender to a Vaiṣṇava. Only Ambarīṣa Mahārāja can give you protection." Just see. He was so exalted yogi that he could see personally Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Lord Viṣṇu, but still, he was not excused on account of his offense to a Vaiṣṇava. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned very severely: tāra madhye vaiṣṇava aparādha hātī matta. Vaiṣṇava-aparādha is the greatest offense. We should be very careful. In... According to our Vedic civilization, a Vaiṣṇava, a saintly person, was never under the government laws. They, they were not under the govern... Why government laws? Even Yamarāja's law. That is also stated. Yamarāja also warned his servants not to approach Vaiṣṇava. So Vaiṣṇava's position is so great.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for turning everyone to become a pure Vaiṣṇava. Pure Vaiṣṇava. That is the actual aim of human life. As we are discussing this morning, mumukṣavaḥ. The aim of human life is to get out of the clutches of māyā, repetition of birth and death and transmigration from body to another. That is the real aim of life. That is real freedom. So if we neglect this opportunity, then we are called ātma*-hā. Ātma-hā means committing suicide. Just like a person, knowingly, knowingly committing suicide, cutting his throat, similarly, a human being, getting so much opportunity, especially in India... We have got so many books of knowledge, especially the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta-sūtra means Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is explicit narration of the Vedānta-sūtra. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānām **. So Indians especially should take advantage of this human form of life and spread this knowledge all over the world. Then the whole world will be peaceful and happy. That is our proposition. It is not a... I repeatedly say that this is not a religious cult, that we want to supersede another type of religion. That is not our business. Our aim is to make all people happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is the Vedic mission. Everyone should be happy. But they are trying to be happy, but they do not know how to, how to become... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They are misguided. They cannot be happy without becoming Vaiṣṇava. This is open declaration in the śāstra. They cannot become happy. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā [SB 7.5.31]. If they are trying to become happy otherwise, that is durāśayā, hopeless thing. It will never be fructified. It will never be successful. Na te viduḥ. They do not know. Therefore our business is to make them know that "This is the way of perfection. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Make your life perfect. Be happy, and go back to home, back to Godhead." This is our mission. They do not know.

*So we are trying to convince them in so many ways. There is no need of so many ways. The one, simple method, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, will be sufficient to make them perfect. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The problems, bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, mahā-dāvāgni, "great forest fire." Forest fire, we have no experience immediately, but in America, there is occasionally forest fire. They have got very good experience. There are many forests also. So the forest fire takes place automatically. Nobody goes to set fire. Similarly, in this material world the blazing fire is always there-problems, different problems. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. This will be extinguished immediately. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's saying. How? Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Simply by spreading this saṅkīrtana movement, all the problems of the world will be immediately mitigated. So to make people Vaiṣṇava, pure Vaiṣṇava, and to spread the saṅkīrtana movement, this is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and we are trying our best. Actually, it was the duty of the Indians, but fortunately, the Americans have taken up instead of Indians. Therefore I have brought them. The Indians... You are forgetting your duty. The foreigners are doing your duty. So you should welcome them, instead of driving them away by so many pleas. This is not very good. Yes. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "It is stated in the Padma*-Purāṇa that there are four kinds of effects to sinful activities, which are listed as follows: (1) the effect which is not yet fructified, (2) the effect which is lying as seed, (3) the effect which is already mature, and (4) the effect which is almost mature. It is also stated that all these four effects..."



*Prabhupāda: Kūṭa*-stha-bīja, prārabdha... Like that. This is, these are the... Our effects. Just like we can understand in the modern... Just like if you infect some disease, it becomes immediately kūṭa-stha. Kūṭa-stha means stocked. In due course of time, it will come out, manifest. Similarly, we are acting so many sinful activities. Sometimes they complain that "This man is committing so many sinful activities, but he's happy." But actually he's enjoying the effects of his past something pious. Now he's happy, but that effect of the impious activities, that is in stock. It will come out in due course of time. That is called kūṭa-stha. Kūṭa-stha phalonmukha, prārabdha. These are the Sanskrit language. That is being explained here. Go on.



Pradyumna: "It is also stated that all these four effects become immediately vanquished for those who surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, and become engaged in His devotional service in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This, these four kinds of stages of sinful activities, in stock, almost fructified, manifest, all the stages of sinful activities can be immediately nullified. Because it is assured by Kṛṣṇa, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. It is not imagination. If we believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, then there is no question of denying this fact. Kṛṣṇa personally says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... Sarva-pāpebhyo [Bg. 18.66]. The kūṭa-stha, phalonmukha, prārabdha, everything, it become immediately nullified, simply by this process, by surrendering: "Kṛṣṇa, I, I was mistaken. I got..., forgot your mastership; You are my eternal Lord. So I was bewildered. I was wandering. Now I have come to my senses. I surrender unto You sincerely. You accept me." This very thing will give you immediately protection from all sinful activities. Kṛṣṇa says,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



So where is the difficulty? Let us surrender to Kṛṣṇa and execute His will, whatever He... Surrender means I must be prepared to execute the will of Kṛṣṇa; *not my whims, but Kṛṣṇa's will. The Kṛṣṇa's will is that you become Kṛṣṇa's devotee. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Where is the difficulty? You surrender unto Him, and He assures, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Immediately he becomes relieved from the effects of illusory energy. So there is no difficulty, not at all difficulty. Let us immediately become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. Think of Him always. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, to become His devotee, always think of Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. "Always worship Me. Always offer obeisances." These are the four principles. Anyone can do it. There is no restriction for any caste, creed, nation. Everyone. It is open to the human being. So if we actually want to be happy, we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no alternative. That is our point. Yes? Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Those effects described as 'almost mature' refer to the distress from which one is suffering at present, and the effects 'lying as seed' means that in the core of the heart there is a certain stock of sinful desires which are like seeds. The Sanskrit word kūṭam means that they are almost ready to produce the seed, or the effect of the seed. And 'immature effect' refers to the case where the seedling has not begun. From this statement of Padma*-Purāṇa it is understood that material contamination is very subtle. Its beginning, its fruition and results, and how one suffers such results in the form of distress, are part of a great chain. When one catches some disease, it is very..., it is often very difficult to ascertain the cause of the disease, where it originated and how it is maturing. The suffering of a disease, however, does not appear all of a sudden. It actually takes time. And, as in the medical field, for precaution's sake, the doctor injects a vaccination to prevent the growing of contamination, similarly, the practical injection to stop all the fructifications of the seeds of our sinful activities is simply engagement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the best injection. Take this injection and become free from all sinful reactions. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "In this connection, Śukadeva Gosvāmī speaks in the Sixth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Second Chapter, 17th verse, about the story of Ajāmila, who began life as a fine and dutiful brāhmaṇa but in his young manhood became wholly corrupted by a prostitute. At the end of his wicked life, just by calling the name of Nārāyaṇa (or Kṛṣṇa), he was saved, despite so much sin. Śukadeva points out that austerity..."



*Prabhupāda: Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. That is stated the Bhagavad*-gītā. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. A little Kṛṣṇa consciousness can save you from the greatest danger. The example is this Ajāmila. Ajāmila, he was the greatest sinful man. Similarly, Jagāi-Mādhāi. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that from the life of Ajāmila we understand, simply by uttering the name of Nārāyaṇa at the time of his death, he became eligible to be promoted to the Vaikuṇṭhaloka. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Śukadeva points out that austerity, charity and the performance of ritualistic ceremonies for counteracting sinful activities are recommended processes, but that by performing them one cannot remove the sin desire*-seed from the heart, as was the case with Ajāmila in his youth. This sinful desire-seed can be accomplished very easily by chanting the mahā-mantra, or Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, as recommended by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In other words, unless one adopts the path of devotional service, he cannot be one hundred percent clean from all the reactions of sinful activities."



Prabhupāda: So we shall discuss more tomorrow. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





721107ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 7, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "By performing Vedic ritualistic activities, by giving money in charity and by undergoing austerity, one can temporarily become free from the reactions of sinful activities, but at the next moment he must again become engaged in sinful activities. For example, a person suffering from venereal disease on account of excessive indulgence of sex life has to undergo some severe pain in medical treatment, and he is then cured for the time being. But because he has not been able to remove the sex desire from his heart, he must again indulge in the same thing and become a victim of the same disease. So medical treatment may give temporary relief from the distress of such venereal disease, but unless one is trained to understand that sex life is abominable, it is impossible to be saved from such repeated distress. Similarly, the ritualistic performances, charity, and austerity which are recommended in the *Vedas* may temporarily stop one from acting in sinful ways, but as long as the heart is not clear, one will have to repeat sinful activities again and again."



Prabhupāda: So, according to Vedic ritualistic ceremony, there is recommendation of prāyaścitta, condon... What is called?



Pradyumna: Atonement?



Prabhupāda: Atonement. Yes. Atonement. So the example is given, just like a thief, he knows that stealing is not good. He has got experience that in the past he committed stealing, committed criminal offense by stealing, and he was arrested. Then he was punished. Still, he's stealing again. A man knows that stealing is not good. By ordinary law, stealing is punished, and in the scriptures also, stealing is prohibited because it is sinful. And one has seen that a person who is a thief was arrested and was punished. Everything he knows, but still, he commits stealing. Why? Therefore Bhāgavata says through Śukadeva Gosvāmī that prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Simply official prāyaścitta will not help a man ceasing from sinful activities. Official. In Christian religion also, they accept, confess their sinful activities, and again they commit the same sinful activities. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Unless one understands his constitutional position, unless he's convinced that why should he commit sinful activities simply for this body, which does not belong to him... It is a foreign. Actually, he has no connection with the body. Vimarśanam means cultivation of knowledge. So one has to cultivate knowledge. Then he can be stopped from sinful activities.



People, generally, they identify this body as self, and for bodily interest, he commits so many sinful activities, simply for satisfaction of the senses. But if he's cultured, if he's given proper knowledge that "Bodily concept of life is not your interest. You are spirit soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, in this way, if he cultivates knowledge... That is very easily possible simply by engaging oneself in the service of the Lord. Kevalayā bhaktyā. Simply by devotional service, one can raise himself to the position of perfect knowledge, and thus he can renounce all sinful activities.

vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*In ignorance-means in bodily concept of life*-we commit sinful activities, but if we actually come to the platform of knowledge, jñāna, then naturally there is vairāgya, renunciation. Renunciation means renunciation of sinful activities. Renunciation does not mean renunciation of devotional service. Renunciation means that unwanted things, anartha-nivṛttiḥ. That is renunciation. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga atho bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. If one is actually advanced in spiritual life, execution of regular spiritual life, then automatically anartha-nivṛttiḥ, things which are not required, that becomes automatically stopped. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. So that anartha-nivṛttiḥ is possible by śraddhā, sādhu-saṅgaḥ, bhajana-kriyā, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ, then niṣṭhā, ruci, asakti, bhāva. In this way, we develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love of Godhead. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Another example is given in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam of the elephant who enters into a lake and takes a bath very seriously, cleansing his body thoroughly. Then, as soon as he comes out onto shore, he again takes some dust from the earth and throws it over his body. Similarly, a person who is not trained in Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot become completely free from the desire for sinful activities. Neither the yoga process, nor philosophical speculations, nor fruitive activities can save one from the seeds of sinful desires. Only by being engaged in devotional service can this be done."



*Prabhupāda: The elephant... Hasti*-snāna, hasti-snāna. This is very practical example. The elephant takes bath in the lake, very profusely throws water on his body, and becomes cleansed, and as soon as he comes on the shore, he takes again dust and spreads over his body. So these are natural examples. Similarly, there are different processes for getting out of the reaction of sinful activities, but you..., we take it. But if we again commit those sinful activities, then what is the use of such penance or prāyaścitta? Hasti-snāna. The example is given as hasti-snāna. Take, for example, it is said by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra one is released from all sinful activities immediately. Eka hari nāma yata pāpa kare, pāpī haya tato pāpa kari bare nare. It is a fact. Just like Ajāmila. His whole life was full of sinful activities, but at the time of death, because he uttered the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, he became immediately released. That's a fact. But if we commit again sinful activities, then what is the use of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra? Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. This is one of the ten offenses. If anyone thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It is reacting all the effects of my sinful life. Then again I can commit and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very good business..." No. That is great offense. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. One should not indulge in such a way. Jagāi-Mādhāi was accepted by Lord Caitanya only on the promise that they would not commit any more any sinful activities. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy is there for everyone. He can accept everyone. One who is sinful, that is not disqualification. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, more or less, everyone is sinful. Then nobody can be claimed to be liberated by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will give you, give you relief from all sinful activities, provided you don't commit it again. Otherwise, it will be like hasti-snāna, the example of the elephant, and it will be a great offense. If on the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we continue to commit sinful activities, that is great offense. We should not do that. The idea is by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we become free from the reaction of sinful life, but that does not mean we shall again indulge in sinful life and counteract it by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. No. Not like that. Once you take to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you should make rapid progress, without committing any sinful activity, and retard the progress. Don't do that. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "There is another evidence in the Fourth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Twenty-second Chapter, 37th verse, wherein Sanat-kumāra says: 'My dear King, the false ego of a human being is so strong that it keeps him in material existence as if tied up by a strong rope. Only the devotees can cut off the knot of this strong rope very easily, by engaging themselves in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Others, who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness but are trying to become great mystics or great ritual performers, cannot advance like the devotees. Therefore it is the duty of everyone to engage himself in the activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in order to be freed from the tight knot of false ego and engagement in material activities.' "



*Prabhupāda: Bhaja vāsudeva. There is a verse like that, that as by taking shelter at the lotus feet of Vāsudeva, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one can get released from all kinds of material tribulations, such kind of immunization is not possible by practicing yoga, tapasya, jñāna. This is the statement in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. In all ways, it is recommended that we have to, we should take shelter...



*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



*If one takes shelter of mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ... Murāri is Kṛṣṇa's another name. So puṇya-yaśo, His name is famous as piety. Puṇya-yaśo murāri. If anyone takes shelter of His lotus feet, then the great ocean of nescience becomes a small pit, and one can jump over it very easily. Go on.



Pradyumna: "This tight knot of false ego is due to ignorance. As long as one is ignorant about his identification, he is sure to act wrongly and thereby become entangled in material contamination. This ignorance of factual knowledge can also be dissipated by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as it is confirmed in the *Padma Purāṇa* as follows: 'Pure devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness...' "



*Prabhupāda: Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī is giving evidences from different Vedic literatures to support his statement. Here is a statement from Padma Purāṇa. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, in his Tattva*-sandarbha, has proved it, without any doubt, that the Purāṇas are supplementary to Vedas. They are... Just like Upaniṣads is part and parcel of the Vedas, similarly, Purāṇas are also part and parcel of the Vedic literature. There are philosophers, the Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not accept Purāṇas as Vedic literature, but Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has proved in his Tattva-sandarbha, in the beginning, that Purāṇas, Mahābhārata, itihāsa-purāṇa, they are part and parcel of the Vedic literature. Supplementary. Purāṇa means that which supplements. So evidences from Purāṇa is as good as the evidence from the Vedic quotation. That is the verdict of Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī is not prepared to accept any statement which does not refer to the Vedic literatures: Vedas, Purāṇas, Upaniṣads, Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa, like that. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī also says in another place, śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā [Brs. 1.2.101]. So he has taken purāṇas also as evidences, Vedic evidences. So śruti, the Vedas, smṛti, the Purāṇas and other literatures, dharma-śāstra, smṛti-śāstra and Purāṇa, pañcarāti-vidhi-without reference to all these authentic literature, any kind of devotional activities are not accepted by the Gosvāmīs. They say, "Without any reference to these all Vedic literatures, any kind of devotional service is simply disturbance." Pañcarātri-vidhiṁ vinā aikāntikī harer bhaktir upātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt, disturbance. Go on.



Pradyumna: " 'Pure devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest enlightenment, and when such enlightenment is there, it is just like a blazing forest fire, killing all the inauspicious snakes of desire.' The example is being given in this connection that when there is a forest fire, the extensive blazing automatically kills all the snakes in the forest. There are many, many snakes on the ground of the forest, and when a fire takes place, it burns the dried foliage, and the snakes are immediately attacked. Animals who have four legs can flee from the fire or can at least try to flee, but the snakes are immediately killed. Similarly, the blazing fire of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so strong that the snakes of ignorance are immediately killed."



Prabhupāda: Go on.



*Pradyumna: " 'Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is All*-Auspicious.' Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has given a definition of auspiciousness."



*Prabhupāda: The snakes, kāla*-sarpa, indriya. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī has explained about these kāla-sarpas, snake... Our senses are compared with the snakes. Just like a snake, as soon as it touches somebody, it kills. It is very dangerous, touching by the lip of the snake. Similarly, a, a slight sense gratification is so dangerous, kāla-sarpa indriya-paṭalī, especially in the sex matter. So one... Yogis, they are training the senses how to restrain them from sense gratification, but a devotee, on account of their senses being engaged in the service of the Lord, there is no poisonous effect of the senses. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa. Rathaṁ sthāpaya acyuta. Hṛṣīkeśa. In the Bhagavad-gītā, this word is used, Hṛṣīkeśa. So Hṛṣīkeśa means "the master of the senses." Actually, our senses are given by Kṛṣṇa. We wanted a type of instrument to enjoy certain type of material enjoyment, and Kṛṣṇa has given us senses. Actually, the proprietor of the senses is Kṛṣṇa; *therefore His name is Hṛṣīkeśa, "master of the senses." So if we actually use the senses for the service of the proprietor of the senses, that is bhakti. Do not..., we do not want to stop the activities of the senses, but it is, they are used for the purpose of the sense proprietor, Hṛṣīkeśa. That is called bhakti. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means don't use the senses for sense gratification. Apply the senses for the satisfaction of the proprietor of the senses. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Go on.



Pradyumna: "Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has given a definition of auspiciousness. He says that actual auspiciousness means welfare activities for all the people of the world."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement: it is welfare activities for all the people of the world. It is not a sectarian movement, not only for the human being, but also for the animals, birds, beasts, trees, everyone. This discussion was made by Haridāsa Ṭhākura with Lord Caitanya. In that statement, Haridāsa Ṭhākura affirmed it that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra loudly, the trees, the birds, the beasts*-everyone-will be benefited. This is the statement of Namācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura. So when we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra loudly, it is beneficial for everyone. This statement was put forward in Melbourne in the court. The, the court inquired that "Why do you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra loudly in the street?" The reply we gave that "Just to benefit all the people." Actually, it is the fact. Of course, now there is no prosecution by the state. We are chanting very freely on the streets. That is the benefit. If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it benefits everyone, not only human beings. My Guru Mahārāja used to say if somebody complained that "We go and chant, but nobody attends our meeting," so Guru Mahārāja would reply that "Why? The four walls will hear you. That is sufficient. Don't be disappointed. Go on chanting. If there are four walls, they will hear. That's all." So chanting is so effective that it benefits even the animals, beasts, birds, insects, everyone. Go on. This is the best welfare activity. In the human society there are welfare activities for some society or nation or community or human being. But this welfare activity is beneficial not only to the human society but to the birds, beasts, tree, animal, everyone. This is the best, supermost welfare activity in the world, spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "At the present moment groups of people are engaged in welfare activities in terms of society, community or nation. There is even an attempt in the form of the United Nations for world*-help activity. But due to the shortcomings of limited national activities, such a general mass welfare program for the whole world is not practically possible. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, however, is so nice that it can render the highest benefit to the entire human race. Everyone can be attracted by this movement, and everyone can feel the result. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī and other learned scholars agree that a broad propaganda program for the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement of devotional service all over the world is the highest humanitarian welfare activity."



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Pradyumna: "How the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can attract the attention of the whole world and how each and every man can feel pleasure in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is stated in the *Padma Purāṇa* as follows: 'A person who is engaged in devotional service in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to be understood to be doing the best service to the whole world and to be pleasing everyone in the world. In addition to human society, he is pleasing even the trees and animals because they also become attracted by such a movement.' A practical example of this was shown by Lord Caitanya when He was traveling through the forest of Jhārikhaṇḍa in central India for spreading His saṅkīrtana movement. The tigers, the elephants, the deer and all other wild animals joined Him and were participating in their own ways, by dancing and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was passing through the forest of Jhārikhaṇḍa, in central India, the, all the animals joined with Him. Of course, He's Kṛṣṇa Himself. But if one becomes purified, there is no question that... All animals, living entities, would join in saṅkīrtana movement. There is evidence. But one must be very sincere and powerful preacher. If we cannot preach in the, in the society of the animals, we can preach at least in the human societies, who are supposed to be uncivilized or very lower status of life. Actually, it is so happening. In Africa also, our men are going interior in the village. They are almost naked, these Africans*-we have got pictures-with big, big earring. So they are also, their children, and they also dance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. This is the wonderful movement, that anyone can take part. We see the children take part, the dogs take part, the so-called uncivilized men, they also take part. This is the universality of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement.



pṛthivīte ācheyata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe more nāma



So it is (the) Lord's prediction, and that is fact. Simply we have to serve the Lord and execute His mission. That will make our life successful.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721108ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 8, 1972



*Prabhupāda: ...stated in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta:



*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a fact in everyone's heart. It is already there. Otherwise how these Europeans and Americans, they're taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously? So it is to be understood that Kṛṣṇa consciousness was there already. By the process of hearing, śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte, process of hearing... As Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended: ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam is so auspicious that the chanting of this mantra awakens the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. The more you hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the more your heart becomes cleansed. These are the statements given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There cannot be any defect. My statement may be defective, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement cannot be defective, because He is in the transcendental platform. He is transcendence Himself. Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne. Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmine. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He has appeared in the form of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. Therefore, whatever He says, that is fact. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. The more we hear the vibration, the transcendental vibration, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, without any offense... Even with, mixed with offense... There are three stages of chanting this vibration: offensive chanting, and almost offenseless chanting, and offenseless chanting. Offensive chanting may give you material pains and pleasures, and almost offenseless will give you liberation, will place you in the transcendental platform. And when it is offenseless, then immediately you'll invoke love of God, Kṛṣṇa-prema. So even in offensive stage, if you go on chanting and try to be, try to become safe from offensive condition... Daśa-vidhā-nāma, ten kinds of offenses, if we avoid, that is the process of auspicity. But even we are not in the platform of offenseless chanting, still, we must go on chanting. It will gradually make our heart cleansed and we'll be offenseless. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is required. That is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam.



So here, Rūpa Gosvāmī says auspicity means that which spreads for everyone, in all parts of the world. That is auspicity. Not partial. In politics or sociology or humanitarian activities, there is partiality for a certain section of human being, or certain section of living beings. But this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, awakening Kṛṣṇa consc..., dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is meant for all living entities. Even birds, beasts, insects, they can also awaken. This is the recommendation of Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that if we chant loudly, the trees will hear, the birds will hear, the insect will hear, and they will be liberated. That is the statement of Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Therefore chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and awakening of dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the auspicious activities, welfare activities, for every living entity all over the world. Read.

*Acyutānanda: "At the present moment, groups of people are engaged in welfare activities in terms of society, community or nation. There is even an attempt in the form of the United Nations for world*-help activity. But due to the shortcomings of limited national activities, such a general mass welfare program for the whole world is not practically possible. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, however, is so nice that it can render the highest benefit to the entire human race. Everyone can be attracted by this movement, and everyone can feel the result."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now the human welfare activities are now developed in the form of United Nations. They are tackling various subject matter, but still, it is not possible. They are trying for the last twenty years, but still, even the nations have not become united, what to speak of other welfare activities. It is just a comparison, a little comparison, but this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started, practically, from 1967. I went there in 1965, and for one year I could not do anything. In 1966 this movement was registered in New York, and from 1966 it is spreading. So within four or five years it has spread all over the world. We have got branches in every part of the globe. And at least, these people know there is a movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and we are welcome everywhere as Kṛṣṇa conscious people, "Hare Kṛṣṇa People." Our name is "Hare Kṛṣṇa People." So people may take note of it that within a short period, it has spread so widely. In comparison to United Nations, what we are? We have no money. We have no means. We have no influence. We have no government support. Nothing of the sort. But still, it is spreading.



*So yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha lokas tad anuvartate, tat tat eva itaraḥ janaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. According to this formula, if the leaders of the society takes this movement little seriously... They should take, because this is the only movement which can bring in peace and prosperity and happiness to the whole human society. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*People are after śānti. This is the formula of śānti. We have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme enjoyer. Not we are enjoyer. At the present moment, all our activities are going on, self*-centered: "I am enjoyer. I am leader. I am bhokta." No. This is wrong. Kṛṣṇa is bhokta. Kṛṣṇa is leader. Kṛṣṇa is the friend. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This news, this idea, should be spread all over the world. Then automatically, very easily, all the nations will be united. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness acceptance means ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The difficulty is the members in the United Nations, they assemble together, but their heart is not clean. They meet together with unclean heart; *therefore there is no solution. Whereas Kṛṣṇa consciousness means those who are meeting on the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are meeting in cleansed heart. That is the difference. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Therefore that unity is very solid and sound. And with unclean heart, if we meet, officially, there is no possibility of unity. United Nations, it may be, in the name, but in fact, in fact it cannot be established. Go on.



Acyutānanda: "Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī and other learned scholars agree that a broad propaganda program for the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement of devotional service all over the world is the highest humanitarian welfare activity."



Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī has recommended:



yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet

*sarve vidhi*-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ



His mission is, somehow or other, try to people..., try to engage people in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they may think of Kṛṣṇa, some way or other. Then regulate them, after that. Actually our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, has attained little success on this principle. When we began this movement we never asked people that "You have to do this; *you have to do that." No. "Please come and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." This was our policy. Never mind what you are. You may be Christian. You may be Jews. You may be Muhammadan or Hindu, Muslim. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Please come and join with us, the Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. Actually, that has become successful. In Tompkins Square, I was sitting underneath a tree and chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra alone. And these young men, they used to assemble and dance also in the tune, for three hours*-from two to five. In this way, we got our followers, associates. And gradually it developed into organization. So in the beginning we did not impose so many rules and regulations. There is no rules and regulations. First thing required: ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Unless one's heart is cleansed, he cannot accept rules and regulations. That is not possible. Cora nasane dharme khaiḥ (?). If, if a man is thief, and if you give him moral instruction, that "Stealing is very sinful; do not do it," he will not care for it. A butcher, if you advise him that "Animal killing is very bad. It is sinful," he'll not accept it. That is not possible. His heart should be cleansed. Prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam.



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam the, the process of prāyaścitta, atonement, is discussed, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended that this process of prāyaścitta, ritualistic ceremony... After committing some sinful activities to counteract it, there are, in every śāstra there is some counteracting formulas. The people generally follow that. In Christian religion also, there is confession, atonement. A sinful man goes to the church and confesses. Similarly, in every religion, there is such atonement process, but Parīkṣit Mahārāja refused to accept this atonement process. He protested that a man commits sinful activities and executes some atonement process-again he commits the same thing. Then what is the use of this atonement? So Śukadeva Gosvāmī understood it because he was a serious student. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī was also a serious teacher. So he then said, "No. Atonement process cannot rectify one. Only prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. One must be thoughtful. One must be in knowledge. Then he can give up sinful activities." So he recommended the process of knowledge. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa tyāgena yamena niyamena [SB 6.1.13]. These are the processes.

*So in this age, especially Kali*-yuga, even we cannot perform this tapasya, brahmacarya, tyāga, yama, śama, dama... It is not possible. It is possible not for everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given a short-cut formula, this

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



And that is being effective practically. We see, all over the world, because it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings:



*ihā haite sarva*-siddhi haibe tomāra

*kali*-kāle nāma vinu gati nāhi āra



So that is recommended by Śukadeva Gosvāmī also:



*kaler doṣa*-nidhe rājann

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

*mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

[SB 12.3.51]



*"Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, one becomes liberated from the resultant action of sinful life, and at length he is promoted, paraṁ vrajet..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. This is the process. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, should be spread. And that is actually auspicity for all people, all over the world. Go on.



Acyutānanda: "How the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can attract the attention of the whole world and how each and every man can feel the pleasure of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is stated in the *Padma Purāṇa* as follows: 'A person who is engaged in devotional service in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to be understood to be doing the best service to the whole world and to be pleasing everyone in the world.' "



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is statement in the Padma Purāṇa. And many other Purāṇas, Vedic literatures, the same thing is confirmed. But simply by taking shelter of Mukunda, one can be free from all types of obligation. Devarṣi*-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝnām [SB 11.5.41]. There are so many obligations. We have obligation to perform to satisfy the demigods; the great sages; general human society; pitṝnām, the pitṛs, forefathers. So many obligation. But one who takes shelter of Mukunda, he has no other, no more obligation. Nāyam ṛṇī na kiṅkara rājan. Simply by... Just like watering the root of the tree, you can satisfy the trunks, the branches, the twigs, the leaves, the flowers, everything. Similarly, sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā. Simply by executing devotional service, you can execute all other obligations without any deviation. Go on.



Acyutānanda: "In addition to human society, he is pleasing even the trees and animals, because they also become attracted by such a movement.' A practical example of this was shown by Lord Caitanya when He was traveling through the forests of Jhārikhaṇḍa in central India for spreading His saṅkīrtana movement. The tigers, the elephants, the deer and all other wild animals joined Him and were participating, in their own ways, by dancing and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu practically exhibited that hari*-nāma saṅkīrtana, kṛṣṇa-kīrtana, can attract even animals, tigers, elephants. They also join with Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Of course, His power, our power is not the same. But there is potency. The potency... The potency, as we become powerful, gradually, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has shown that one can come to the stage of enchanting the forest animals also. Go on.



*Acyutānanda: "Furthermore, a person engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, acting in devotional service, can develop all the good qualities that are generally found in the demigods. It is said by Śukadeva Gosvāmī in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Eighteenth Chapter, 12th verse, 'My dear King, persons who have unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and are without any duplicity can develop all the good qualities of the demigods.' "



*Prabhupāda: Yes. A devotee can develop all the good qualities of the demigods*-immediately. Because ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. As soon as the heart is cleansed... Because the soul, as he is, he's pure. Asaṅgo hy ayaṁ puruṣaḥ. The spirit soul is not contaminated or does not associate with the material modes of nature. It is simply an illusion, misidentification. Just like water and oil does not mix, but it appears that oil is fallen in the water, similarly, although we are in this material world, in the material consciousness, our identity is not actually in material consciousness. It is simply... Just like dreaming. The example is dreaming. Just like in dream I see so many hallucinations. Actually, dream is false. I am separate from the dream. But while dreaming, I think I am actually enjoying or suffering. Similarly, by the association of the modes of material nature, we are thinking like that. Otherwise, we are free from the contamination of the material nature. Simply by changing the consciousness, immediately we can transfer ourself to the spiritual platform. So the more we become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, our original characteristics, which are very pure, they become manifest. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. The factual example is here, these European and American boys. They were addicted to so many nonsense habits, but since they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up all these nonsense habits immediately, without any very great endeavor. So this is the fact. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra. Pure character, pure qualities will be manifest. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Similarly, just the opposite: if one is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot have any good qualities, however he may be educated academically. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Therefore, at the present moment, although the leaders are all very educated academically, but still, they cannot bring in peace in the society, because they're godless. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Great, great leaders, on account of their godlessness, they cannot lead the people nicely. Therefore there is no peace and prosperity in the society. Go on.



Acyutānanda: "Furthermore, a person engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, acting in devotional service..." Oh. "It is said by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, 'On account of a devotee's high grade of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even the demigods like to live with him, and therefore it can be understood that the qualities of the demigods have developed within his body.' On the other hand, a person who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has no good qualities. He may be highly educated from the academic point of view, but in the actual field of his activities he can be seen to be baser than the animals."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We see sometimes one man who is very educated, highly, university educated, but practical life*-baser than animal. Because he, he has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He's not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. A devotee of Kṛṣṇa cannot be like that. Go on.



Acyutānanda: "Even though a person is highly educated academically, if he cannot go beyond the sphere of mental activities, then he is sure to perform only material activities and thus remain impure."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Our so*-called advancement of education means to live on the mental platform. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathena [SB 5.18.12]. They have no information of the spiritual platform. They... After bodily concept of life, the next platform is mental and intellectual concept of life. But spiritual life is beyond mental and intellectual concept of life. So unless one comes to the spiritual platform, even on mental and intellectual platform, he cannot do anything good to the society. Hm.



Acyutānanda: "There are so many persons in the modern world who have been highly educated in the materialistic universities, but it is seen that they cannot take up the movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and develop the high qualities of the demigods."



Prabhupāda: Go on.



*Acyutānanda: "For example, a Kṛṣṇa conscious boy, even if he is not very well educated by the university standard, can immediately give up all illicit sex life, gambling, meat*-eating and intoxication, whereas those who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, although very highly educated, are often drunkards, meat-eaters, sex-mongers and gamblers."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... There is a practical example in this connection. Lord Zetland. He was a great philosopher, and he was governor of Bengal, and many good posts he held. But sometimes one of our Godbrothers went in London to preach, and this Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland, he asked the Gosvāmī that whether he could make him a brāhmaṇa. So he said yes, he could be made a brāhmaṇa, provided he can give up these habits: illicit*-sex, gambling, meat-eating and intoxication. The honorable Lord replied: "It is impossible. It is impossible." So actually, unless one is trained into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not a very easy thing to give up all these bad habits. But practically we see, because these boys, these European, American boys, they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously, without any external endeavour, they have been able to give up all these bad habits. Go on.



Acyutānanda: "These are practical proofs of how a Kṛṣṇa conscious person becomes highly developed in good qualities, whereas a person who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot do so. We experience that even a young boy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is unattached to cinemas, night clubs, naked dance shows, restaurants, liquor shops, etc. He becomes completely freed. He saves his valuable time from being extravagantly spent in the way of smoking, drinking, and attending the theater and dancing. One who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness usually cannot sit silently for even half an hour."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also another symptom, restlessness. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person can sit down in one place. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, sitting one place, day and night. There is not a single example in the world that one can sit down, I mean to say, ordinary persons. They cannot. They must be restless. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that one can sit down in one place. Of course, it is not to be imitated. It is to be attained. Anywhere. Just like Gosvāmīs. They used to live underneath a tree one night. So these things are possible when one is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Go on.



*Acyutānanda: "The yoga system teaches that if you become silent, you will realize that you are God. This system may be all right for materialistic persons, but how long will they be able to keep themselves silent? Artificially, they may sit down for so*-called meditation, but immediately after their yogic performance, they will engage themselves again in such activities as illicit sex life, gambling, meat-eating and many other nonsensical things. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person gradually elevates himself without endeavoring for this so-called silent meditation."



*Prabhupāda: Actually, yoga practice means yoga indriya*-saṁyamaḥ. The whole yogic process, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, is meant for controlling the senses. Durdanta indriya-kāla-paṭalī. Indriya, the senses, are just like snakes. As it is very difficult to enchant the snakes, similarly, it is very difficult to control the senses. And the yoga system (is) especially meant for controlling the senses, controlling the mind, and then concentrate on the form of Viṣṇu. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. This is yoga process. But practically we see the so-called yogis, or student of yoga class, I have seen in Western countries, they are habituated to all these nonsense habits-illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating. Still, they're passing on as yogis. So that kind of yoga will not help. Go on.



Acyutānanda: "Simply because he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he automatically gives up all this nonsense and develops a high character. One develops the highest character by becoming a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. The conclusion is that no one can truly have any good qualities if he is lacking Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. This is the conclusion, that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we do not accept him as highly qualified. That is the statement of Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā:



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*So we take this formula. If... We test whether he has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. If not, then he comes to the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayā apahṛta*-jñānā. We take it, immediately. He must be one of them, either duṣkṛtina or mūḍha or all, narādhama, māyayā apahṛta. He may be... Māyayā apahṛta-jñāna means he might be highly educated academically, but māyā has taken away his knowledge. Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because he has taken to the principle of atheism, all these educational qualifications, or sharp brain... Kṛtinaḥ... Duṣkṛtina means... Kṛtina means one who has got very sharp brain, sharp memory; he's called kṛti. But on account of association with māyā, his brain is utilized for doing something harmful to the human society. They, they cannot do anything good to the human society. That is not possible. Then?



Acyutānanda: " 'Happiness In Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.' Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has analyzed the different sources of happiness. He has divided happiness into three categories, which are (1) happiness derived from material enjoyment, (2) happiness derived by identifying oneself with the Supreme Brahman, and (3) happiness derived from Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Tantra-śāstra, Lord Śiva speaks to his wife, Satī, in this way: 'My dear wife, a person who has surrendered himself at the lotus feet of Govinda and who has thus developed pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be very easily awarded all the perfections desired by the impersonalists; and beyond this, he can enjoy the happiness achieved by the pure devotees.' "



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Acyutānanda: "Happiness derived from pure devotional service is the highest because it is eternal, but the happiness derived from material perfection or understanding oneself to be Brahman is inferior because it is only temporary. There is no preventing one's falling down from material happiness, and there is even every chance of falling down from the spiritual happiness derived from identifying oneself with the impersonal Brahman."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Happiness, it is our experience that happiness derived from material enjoyment, that is not permanent. That we can understand. But happiness of identifying oneself with Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, nirbheda*-brahmānusandhana, that happiness is also not permanent. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Āruhya kṛcchreṇ... By great austerity, auspici..., and penance, one may rise up to the platform of Brahman realization, paraṁ padam. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Again he falls down. We have seen many big, big sannyāsī. they give up this world as brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, false. But after some time, when they cannot actually realize Brahman, they again come to this jagat for humanitarian work, for welfare activities. If jagat is mithyā, then why do they come again to this welfare activity? So jagat is not mithyā, but it is temporary. We do not say mithyā. Vaiṣṇava philosophers, they do not accept the jagat as mithyā. Why? If it is emanation from the Absolute Truth, it must be true. It is not mithyā, but we accept it as temporary. We do not accept as permanent. The permanent jagat is the spiritual world. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another spiritual world; *that is sanātana, that is permanent. This world is not permanent. So even though it is not permanent, it can be utilized for the service of the Lord. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. That is our philosophy. We don't take the jagat as mithyā; *we take it as fact, because it is emanation from the supreme fact. So just like gold earring is also gold*-that is not iron-similarly, the, this material world is made of the external energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we do not find anything here wrong. We try to dovetail everything in the service of Kṛṣṇa, because it is Kṛṣṇa's. Just like one's property must be enjoyed by the proprietor. Kṛṣṇa says that bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He's the proprietor of this world. Therefore everything dovetailed in His service for His satisfaction, that is devotional service. That is the professional (perfectional?) stage of serving Kṛṣṇa. So we don't take the world as mithyā.



*Therefore those who are impersonalists, they think that they have become liberated. Actually, they are not liberated. The Bhāgavata says, vimukta*-māninaḥ. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. They are thinking like that. Actually, their intelligence is not yet completely purified. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. So even Brahma-sukha, the happiness derived from realization of Brahman, is not perfect. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*That brahma*-bhūtaḥ state is a preliminary qualification to enter into devotional service. But if one does not enter into devotional service, anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, neglects the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then patanty adhaḥ. These are the statements, authoritative statements.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721109ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 9, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "Furthermore, a person engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, acting in devotional service, can develop all the good qualities that are generally found in the demigods." Oh.



Prabhupāda: Read, "in Kṛṣṇa consciousness..."



Pradyumna: " 'Happiness In Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.' Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has analyzed the different sources of happiness. He has divided happiness into three categories, which are (1) happiness derived from material enjoyment, (2) happiness derived by identifying oneself with the Supreme Brahman, and (3) happiness derived (through) from Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the tantra-śāstra, Lord Śiva speaks to his wife, Satī, in this way: 'My dear wife, a person who has surrendered himself to the lotus feet of Govinda and who has thus developed pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be very easily awarded all the perfections desired by the impersonalists; and beyond this, he can enjoy the happiness achieved by the pure devotees.' Happiness derived from pure devotional service is the highest because it is eternal. But the happiness derived from material perfection or understanding oneself to be Brahman is inferior because it is temporary. There is no preventing one's falling down from material happiness, and there is even every chance of falling down from the spiritual happiness derived out of identifying oneself with the impersonal Brahman."



Prabhupāda: This we have explained last night, how the, a person enjoying happiness as Brahman realization... There are many examples, both in the East and the West, that... In our Eastern countries, the Māyāvādī philosophy is very prominent, and their basic principle is: brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "The world is false, and Brahman, that is truth." But we have practically seen many sannyāsīs, they renounce this world as mithyā and take to Brahman realization path, but after some days, they come down to politics, sociology, philanthropy. Why? If Brahman is satya, jagat is mithyā, false, then why they, from the platform of satya, they fall down again in the mithyā? This is our question. To open hospital or to open a school or similar philanthropic activities are generally being done by persons who are embarrassed with this mithyā world. Why the sannyāsīs, who left this world as mithyā and went to the platform of Brahman realization, and why they come to this platform again for opening school, hospitals? What is the answer? Is there any answer?



Devotee: They can't remain there.



Prabhupāda: Uh? That means they could not realize the happiness of Brahman. What is your opinion, Gosāi? If they would have derived any happiness from that Brahman platform, then why would (they) come down to this platform which was rejected as mithyā? So accepting that Brahman realization is real happiness, but they could not realize that happiness. Under the circumstances, they must come down to realize happiness in these varieties of material world. Because they found it better happiness by taking in politics and on political movements or opening school, hospitals. They found better happiness in these activities. Then why the, they say that this jagat mithyā? These are activities of the material world.



*So the answer is given in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam that their such kind of Brahman realization is not fact. That Brahman realization is answered in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as vimukta-māninaḥ. They simply think that they have become liberated. Actually, they are not liberated. Otherwise, how they come down again to the platform of bondage? This is the answer. Ye 'nye ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Vimukta-māninaḥ. These impersonalists, they are thinking falsely that they have become Nārāyaṇa, or liberated. Actually, it is not so? Why? Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, their intelligence is not yet purified. Because there is material attachment, that means the intelligence is still materially affected. Otherwise, how they should be materially inclined and come to the material platform? The answer is aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. The intelligence is not yet purified. Why it is not purified? That is also explained: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. By severe austerities, penances, they follow very strictly the rules and regulation of renouncement. That is called kṛccha sādhana, difficult procedure for self-realization. But despite all these endeavors, because their intelligence is not purified, they fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. They realize, actually, the impersonal Brahman, nirbheda-brahmānusandhana. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ patanty adhaḥ. Again they fall down from that platform. Why? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because they could not adore the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. On account of their impersonal impression, they could not appreciate the transcendental, sac-cid-ananda vigraha [Bs. 5.1] of Kṛṣṇa, and could not surrender there. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of such struggle, when actually one becomes wise, jñānavān, he surrenders unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of knowledge.

*So impersonal Brahman realization, nirbheda*-brahmānu-sandhana, is good attempt, but, above that, if one cannot make progress... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The Absolute Truth is realized as impersonal Brahman, then Paramātmā, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So unless a wise jñānavān, jñānī, does not reach to the platform of understanding the personality, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his intelligence is still not very much purified.

*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninaḥ

*tvayy asta*-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

*patanty adhaḥ anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ

[SB 10.2.32]



Because unless we get some shelter, we cannot stay in the impersonal feature. Just like yesterday I spoke that you may go very high on your sputnik or airplane, but if you don't get any shelter in some planet, then you have to come back again on this planet. That is actually, we are experiencing. They are trying to go to the moon planet, but because they are not able to stay there, they come back again. First of all, whether they are actually going in the moon planet, that is also a questionable thing. Anyway, even they go there, why they are coming back again? They cannot stay there.



*So unless and until we have got a stay in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, which are situated in the Brahman effulgence, then simply in the impersonal Brahman effulgence we cannot stay, because there is no variety. Therefore to enjoy variety, one has to come down again to this material variety. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta, anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because we are living entities, part and parcel of the supreme living entity, Param Brahman, Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa, so, as Śrī Kṛṣṇa is by nature joyful, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), similarly we are also joyful. We are also seeking after that joyful life. That joyful life is eternally possible when we dance with Kṛṣṇa, not dance alone or dance with anyone else. So unless we get that position, there is no actually happiness. Because variety is the mother of enjoyment. That is an English proverb. Just like when we eat, we eat the same thing, grain, and milk product, but when it is made in varieties, ruci, halavā and other things, the same milk preparation and grain, but it is made into varieties, it becomes enjoyable. Variety is the mother of enjoy... If I give you a lump of milk, or lump of grain, that is not enjoyable. When it is made into varieties, it is enjoyable. Similarly Brahman, manifested in varieties, that is enjoyable. That you cannot have in the impersonal Brahman. When we approach the personal Brahman, Param Brahman, that variety is available, and there we can enjoy. From there we do not return. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. So simply impersonal Brahman realization, that happiness is not perfect, neither this material varieties are perfect. So brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. When we are fed up with these material varieties, we try to enter in the impersonal Brahman. But even in the impersonal Brahman, when there is want of varieties, then again we come back to these material varieties. Therefore we see so many learned scholars, sannyāsīs, they give up these material varieties as mithyā and enter into the impersonal Brahman, but without variety there, they come again to the material variety for opening schools and hospitals. This is the fact.

So āruhya kṛcchrena paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because they have no information of the spiritual varieties in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, in the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, they come down, because there is no bhakti. In the Vaikuṇṭha planets or Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, nobody can enter unless he's a pure devotee.

bhaktyā mām abhijānāti

yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ

tato māṁ tattvataḥ jñātvā

*viśate tad*-anantaram

[Bg. 18.55]



When one understands Kṛṣṇa in truth, then he's allowed to enter; *otherwise, he cannot enter. He remains outside. Just like if we have got capacity to enter into the sun planet then we can enter. Otherwise we remain in the sunshine. To remain in the sunshine and to enter into the sun planet is not the same thing. Although the sun and the sunshine are light, illumination, still there is difference between the sun and the sunshine. Similarly, impersonal Brahman effulgence and Vaikuṇṭha planets, both of them, absolute, but still Brahman effulgence and entering into the Vaikuṇṭha planets or Goloka Vṛndāvana planets are not the same. Or, in other words, those are not, those who are not devotees, but impersonalists, they can stay outside the Vaikuṇṭha planets in the Brahman effulgence, but they cannot enter into the Vaikuṇṭha planets. Anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because they have not adored or glorified the lotus feet of the Lord, they are not allowed into the Goloka Vṛndāvana or Vaikuṇṭha planet. And they cannot remain perpetually in the impersonal Brahman effulgence. They come down again to these material varieties. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They cannot go upwards. They come, come down. That we have practically seen. All big, big swamis, all Vedantists, but they could not find. Even big, big swamis, they are now taking to Bhāgavata and other Vaiṣṇava literature at the present moment. Because their own literature is finished. How long they'll simply call for Brahman? Unless they come to Kṛṣṇa, there is no varieties of enjoyment. Therefore here it is said that "There is no..." Go on. What is it?



Pradyumna: "There is no preventing one's falling down from material happiness, and there is every chance of falling down from the spiritual happiness derived out of identifying oneself with the impersonal Brahman."



*Prabhupāda: Every chance of falling down from the spiritual happiness. That spiritual happiness, nirbheda*-brahmānu-sandhana. Nirbheda, without any distinction. That is not real Brahman happiness. Brahman happiness means that there must be a distinction. The distinction means Kṛṣṇa is predominator and everyone is predominated. Just like the gopīs. Kṛṣṇa is the predominator, and the gopīs and all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana-Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodā and the cowherd boys, servant, trees, plants, flowers, water, animals, cows-everyone is predominated. Kṛṣṇa is only predominator. That is real happiness. Whenever there is any trouble in Vṛndāvana, they approach the predominator and immediately the predominator takes care and they're happy. This is Vṛndāvana life. As soon as there was torrents of rain, the, all the inhabitants, inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they approached Kṛṣṇa to give them protection. And Kṛṣṇa immediately gave them protection by lifting Govardhana Hill. So they were confident that Kṛṣṇa's there. They did not know Kṛṣṇa as God. They simply loved Kṛṣṇa, and they were confident that "So long Kṛṣṇa is there, we are happy, we are out of danger." That is the conviction of the Vṛndāvana-vāsī. They simply concentrate on Kṛṣṇa.



*So from that standard of happiness nobody falls down. But other spiritual happiness derived from impersonal Brahman effulgence or localized Paramātmā connection... Because that is not complete connection, complete relationship with the Supreme Brahman. Partial. Sac-cid-ānanda. Because unless we approach the Personality of Godhead there is no question of ānanda. You can achieve partially sat portion, you can achieve partially cit portion, sac-cit, but unless you come to the platform ānanda*-the real ānanda is with Kṛṣṇa in the Goloka Vṛndāvana-so there is chance of falling down. One who does not endeavor to approach this platform of ānandamaya, ānandamaya 'bhyāsāt, where everything is simply ānanda... Even the birds and beasts and the flowers and the water, they are also enjoying that blissfulness. So that is required. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says about the cowherd boys, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ.

*itthaṁ (satāṁ) brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nara*-dārakeṇa

*sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



Unless one has accumulated volumes of acti..., activities of pious activities, one cannot enter into the Goloka Vṛndāvana platform and enjoy with Kṛṣṇa in so many capacities. Śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya, mādhurya rasa. That is required. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "It has been seen that great Māyāvādī or impersonalist sannyāsīs*-very highly educated and almost realized souls-may sometimes take to political activities or to social welfare activities. The reason is that they actually do not derive any ultimate transcendental happiness in the impersonal understanding and therefore must come down to the material platform and take to such mundane affairs."



*Prabhupāda: The material variety is the perverted reflection of the spiritual variety. As it is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Fifteenth Chapter: ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha. This tree, this material world (is) compared with a aśvattha vṛkṣa. The root is up, upstairs, upwards, and the branches and leaves are down, downwards. Why? Because it is reflection, chaya, or māyā. The real tree is in the Vaikuṇṭha planet or in the spiritual world. It is only simply reflection. Just like a tree standing on the bank of reservoir of water, on the bank of a lake or a river, you'll see the tree is reflected downwards. So this description in the Fifteenth Chapter of this material world, downwards... Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha means this is only a perverted reflection of the spiritual world. The real tree is in the spiritual world. The other day, who was asking about this question? Some of our...? Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha? Who was asking me? Eh? Oh. Gopāla. He's not here. All right.



*So adhah-śākha ūrdhva*-mūlam. This means this material, all the varieties, here is also representation of śānta rasa, dāsya rasa, sākhya rasa, mādhurya rasa, vātsalya rasa. Here is also the reflection. We see, just like we are sitting on this ground underneath the tree. This is the, the earth is serving us in śānta rasa. Similarly, we have got our servants. That is dāsya rasa. We have got our friends. That is sākhya rasa. We have got our parents. That is Vātsalya rasa. And we have got our lovers also. That is mādhurya rasa. But it is only reflection. It is compared with the mirage. Just like the desert, there is reflection of water. Actually there is no water. Similarly, all this perverted reflection of śānta rasa, dāsya rasa, sākhya rasa, this is just like mirage. It is simply a reflection. It has no actual fact. Here nobody's friend, nobody's servant, nobody's parent, nobody's lover. It is simply a bondage of some self-interest. The servant is not actually serving the master; *it is serving the money which the master gives him. As soon as the payment will be stopped, there will be no more service. Therefore it is a perverted reflection of that service attitude in the Vaikuṇṭha planet. And similarly we have seen there is..., there was high*-court cases between mother and the sons, and they spent lots of money. Still they could not come into conclusion. The motherly affection, the paternal affection, just simply a shadow. It appears to be true because the truth is elsewhere. Just like in the desert it appears there is a great, vast mass of water, but actually there is no water. But that does not mean there is no water. The impression of water is there because there is actually water somewhere. Similarly, we are trying to taste the five rasas in this material world. Because actually these rasas are there in the spiritual world. This is only reflection. Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha. And because in the spiritual world it is a fact, we are taking these false things as fact, these temporary things as fact. Actually it is not fact. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "There are many instances, especially in India, where these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs descend to the material platform again. But a person who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness will never return to any sort of material platform. However alluring and attracting they may be, he always knows that no material welfare activities can be compared with the spiritual activity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The mystic perfections achieved by actually successful yogis are eight in number. Aṇimā*-siddhi refers to the power by which one can become so small that he can enter into a stone. Modern scientific improvements also enable us to enter into stone because they provide for excavating so many subways, penetrating the hills, etc. So aṇimā-siddhi, the mystic perfection of trying to enter into stone, has also been achieved by material science. Similarly, all of the yoga siddhis, or perfections, are material arts."



Prabhupāda: Yoga siddhis, they are simply material arts. Just like one example is given, that aṇimā siddhi, aṇimā siddhi means to enter into the stone. So we see in the Western countries they are boring big, big hills and entering in the stone. So that aṇimā siddhi is being possible, is made possible by modern scientific research. So all the siddhis, aṣṭa siddhi, aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, prākāmya, īśitā, vaśitā, these all siddhis are material. They are not spiritual. But people do not know what is spiritual perfection. They become amazed by seeing some magic by these yogic arts. They're simply material arts. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "For example, in one yoga siddhi there is development of the power to become so light that one can float in the air or on water. That is also being performed by modern scientists. They are flying in air, they are floating on the surface of the water, and they are traveling under the water. After comparing all these mystic siddhis to materialistic perfections it is found that the materialistic scientists try for the same perfections. So actually there is no difference between mystic perfection and materialistic perfection. A German scholar once said that the so*-called yoga perfections have already been achieved by the modern scientists and so he was not concerned with them. He intelligently went to India to learn how he could understand his eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord by means of bhakti-yoga, devotional service."



*Prabhupāda: Therefore, bhakti*-yoga is the greatest science. Other things, the yogic perfections, can be achieved by the materialist scientists. So that is not very great art. The greatest art to learn is how to learn bhakti-yoga and understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55].



*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



*When one is freed from material contamination, then one can understand the science of bhakti*-yoga. So, some way or other, if we try to understand bhakti-yoga, that is the great science. That is the... To learn. If you actually want to learn something greatest in the scientific world, that is bhakti-yoga. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Of course, in the categories of mystic perfection there are certain processes which the material scientists have not yet been able to develop. For instance, a mystic yogi can enter into the sun planet simply by using the rays of the sunshine. This perfection is called laghimā. Similarly, a yogi can touch the moon with his finger. Though the modern astronauts go to the moon with the help of spaceships, they undergo many difficulties, whereas a person with mystic perfection can extend his hand and touch the moon with his finger. This siddhi is called prāpti, or acquisition. With this prāpti-siddhi, the perfect mystic yogi can not only touch the moon planet, but he can extend his hand everywhere and take whatever he likes. He may be sitting thousands of miles away from a certain place, and if he likes he can take fruit from a garden there. This is called prāpti-siddhi. The modern scientists have manufactured nuclear weapons with which they can destroy an insignificant part of this planet, but by the yoga siddhi known as īśitā one can create and destroy an entire planet simply at will. Another perfection is called vaśitā, and by this perfection one can bring anyone under his control. This is a kind of hypnotism which is almost irresistible. Sometimes it is found that a yogi who may have attained a little perfection in this vaśitā mystic power comes out among the people and speaks all sorts of nonsense, controls their minds, exploits them, takes their money and then goes away. There is another mystic perfection which is known as prākāmya or magic. By this prākāmya power one can achieve anything he likes. For example, one can make water enter into his eye and then again come out from within the eye. Simply by his will he can perform such wonderful activities. The highest perfection of mystic power is called kāmāvasāyitā. This is also magic, but whereas the prākāmya power acts to create wonderful effects within the scope of nature, kāmāvasāyitā permits one to contradict nature*-in other words, to do the impossible. Of course, one can achieve great amounts of temporary happiness by achieving such yogic materialistic perfections."



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is called Yogeśvara. He's also the master of all yogic mystic power. Therefore a bhakta, a true devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he does not endeavor personally to achieve all these yogic mystic power. He depends on Kṛṣṇa, and if there is necessity of exhibiting some yogic power, Kṛṣṇa will show. Kṛṣṇa will exhibit. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ hariḥ. So although Arjuna did not manifest any yogic power, but, by Kṛṣṇa's grace everything was so wonderfully performed in the Battle of Kurukṣetra. Otherwise Arjuna was a, an insignificant warrior in front of Bhīṣma, Karṇa, Dronācārya. This is admitted by Mahārāja Parīkṣit, that it is simply by the grace of Kṛṣṇa that his grandfather came out victorious in front of Bhīṣma, Karṇa, Dronācārya and similar great heroes. So if any heroic action has to be shown, the devotee does not endeavor separately for showing such heroic manifestation. Because he depends on Kṛṣṇa, if there is need, then Kṛṣṇa will show. Nimitta*-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin. Actually, the battlefield was conducted by Kṛṣṇa, and He owned the victory, but officially, historically, it is said that Arjuna owned the victory. So a devotee does not require to acquire all the talents, how to own victory. Kṛṣṇa will do that business. A devotee has only to surrender sincerely unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be done wonderfully.



Thank you very much. (end)



721110ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 10, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading:) "Foolishly, people who are enamored of the glimmer of modern materialistic advancement are thinking that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for less intelligent men. 'I am better off being busy with my material comforts*-maintaining a nice apartment, family and sex life.' These people do not know that at any moment they can be kicked out of their material situation. Due to ignorance, they do not know that real life is eternal. The temporary comforts of the body are not the goal of life, and it is due only to darkest ignorance that people become enamored of the glimmering advancement of material comforts. Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has therefore said that the advancement of material knowledge renders a person more foolish because it causes one to forget his real identification by its glimmer. This is doom for..."



*Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he sings, jaḍa*-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. This advancement of material education means advancement of the snares of the illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa. Māyāra vaibhava. Because we are already enamored by the glimmer of this material world. Just like the insects are attracted by the fire. They, with great force, enter into the fire without knowing that he's going to die. His forceful entrance into the fire means his sure death. Actually, we are seeing, especially in the Western countries, this motorcar civilization, when we run on on the motorcar, especially with high speed, it is always we think that any moment danger can take place. (aside:) You remember, you were driving your father's car, eighty miles. So I asked you, "Don't go so fast." So the materialistic way of life is that. We create some so-called comforts of life for temporary enjoyment, but at the same time, we take the risk of so many dangerous condition. In the śāstra it is said that this place is padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. In every step there is danger. Although we are trying to mitigate all kinds of discomforts, it is simply changing the burden from head to the shoulder. Just like a coolie carrying some burden, when he feels uncomfortable, he changes the burden from head to the shoulder, but actually, that is not mitigating the pains of burden. Similarly, we are trying to get material comforts by manufacturing or adventing so many scientific discoveries, but that is not actually getting happiness. It is simply changing the position. Exactly, we just consider that in your country, especially, you have got many motorcars, but riding on motorcars, how much dangerous conditions you accept. Everyone accept.



*So this kind of changing the course of discomfort... Actually, it is a place for discomfort. You cannot expect real comfort within this material world. It is a place... Because Kṛṣṇa Himself certifies this place duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is a place for miserable condition of life. Now, how you can make it a happy place? That is not possible. So our attempt to make us happy, the example is given, just like to take the heavy burden from head to the shoulder. That's all. Changing the place. Now we are creating so many problems, you know. You have got many cars, many roads, but still, you have to construct highways or flyways, one road after another, one road after another. Still, there is congestion. Still, there is accident. So in this way we cannot be comfortable. This is a vain endeavor. Durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ. They are unnecessarily, hopelessly trying to become happy within this material world. And people, the so-called scientists, so-called advancement of material education means... Now, the scientist says that they have finished their business; they have no more to discover. But the discomforts of life still is there. As it was two hundred years ago, still, I think it is more acute now than two hundred years ago. So in this way, we cannot... The another example is that just like we dream. We dream something dangerous, a tiger is coming, a snake is coming; *sometimes we want to change to another sort of dream. Those who have got practical experience... Dreaming another dream in dream. Similarly, our attempt, so*-called attempt to become comfortable in this material world, and manufacturing some ways of comforts, it is simply useless endeavor, because such kind of artificial endeavoring will not make us happy. Real happiness is, as we are trying to manufacture so many things, as Kṛṣṇa says, real happiness is there, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ: [Bg. 18.66] to take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. That is required. We have to take shelter of Mukunda, Murāri, Kṛṣṇa. Then we'll be happy. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "This is doom for him because this human form of life is meant for getting out of the material contamination. By the advancement of material knowledge, people are becoming more and more entangled in material existence. They have no hope of being liberated from this catastrophe. In the Hari*-bhakti-sudhodaya it is stated that Prahlāda Mahārāja, a great devotee of the Lord, prayed to Nṛsiṁhadeva (the half-lion, half-man incarnation), as follows: 'My dear Lord, I repeatedly pray unto Your lotus feet that I may simply be stronger in devotional service. I simply pray that my Kṛṣṇa consciousness may be more strong and steady, because happiness derived out of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service is so powerful that with it one can have all the other perfections of religiousness, economic development, sense gratification and even the attainment of liberation from material existence.' Actually, a pure devotee does not aspire after any of these perfections because the happiness derived from devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so transcendental and so unlimited that no other happiness can be compared with it. It is said that even one drop of happiness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness stands beyond comparison with an ocean of happiness derived from any other activity. Thus, any person who has developed even a little quantity of pure devotional service can very easily kick out all the other kinds of happiness derived from religiousness, economic development, sense gratification and liberation."



*Prabhupāda: Dharmārtha*-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41]. There are, people are generally after four principles of happiness: being religious, being economically developed, being very good candidate for satisfying senses, and when one is frustrated to derive any happiness from these three principles, he wants liberation, nirbheda-brahmānu-sandhana. That is also not actual happiness, because, as I was explaining this morning, that even one merges into the Brahman effulgence after severe penances and austerity, there is chance of falling down. There is chance. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti [SB 10.2.32]. Paraṁ pada is to merge into the Brahman effulgence existence. But from there also, one falls down, as I was giving the example of many big sannyāsīs in the modern age. They are very learned scholar. They took to sannyāsa, giving up this world as false, but again, after some time, they come to politics, sociology. That means that is their falldown. Because they could not actually taste the Brahman, brahmānanda, for which they sacrificed everything... So brahmānanda is not such a thing that one will come again to this false platform which they rejected as brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, then why such exalted persons, who gave up everything for brahmānanda... That means they could not taste brahmānanda. Therefore they fell down. Go on.



Pradyumna: "There was a great devotee of Lord Caitanya known as Kholāvecā Śrīdhara, who was a very poor man. He was doing a small business selling cups made from the leaves of plantain trees, and his income was almost nothing. Still, he was spending fifty percent of his small income on the worship of the Ganges, and with the other fifty percent he was somehow living. Lord Caitanya once revealed Himself to this confidential devotee, Kholāvecā Śrīdhara, and offered any opulence that he liked..."



Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu offered this Kholāvecā Śrīdhara, wanted to benedict him with any kinds of benediction he wanted. But he said, "I am quite happy." Go on reading.



*Pradyumna: "Śrīdhara informed the Lord that he did not want any material opulence. He was quite happy in his present position and wanted only to gain unflinching faith and devotion unto the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya. That is the position of the pure devotees. If they can be engaged twenty*-four hours each day in devotional service, they do not want anything else, not even the happiness of liberation or of becoming one with the Supreme. In the Nārada-pañcarātra it is also said that any person who has developed even a small amount of devotional service doesn't care a fig for any kind of happiness derived from religiousness, economic development, sense gratification, or the five kinds of liberation."



*Prabhupāda: Hmm. Dharmārtha*-kāma, kāma-mokṣaḥ samaya-pratīkṣāḥ muktiḥ mukulitañjali sevate asmān. For a devotee, mukti is not a thing aspirable, because, as it is stated by Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, mukti is trying to serve the devotee with folded hands. Because a devotee is already liberated. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. A pure devotee, who is constantly engaged in devotional service, māyā cannot touch him. He's already liberated. So what he has got to ask from the liberty? He hasn't got to ask. Anywhere a devotee lives, he's liberated. That is the statement of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā-manasā vācā: "Anyone who is simply engaged in the devotional service of the Lord by his activities, karmaṇā, by his mind, and by his words, such person is always liberated in any condition of life." Īhā yasya harer dāsye. Simply we have to engage ourself in the devotional service of the Lord, then māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. One who has surpassed the boundaries of māyā, he's liberated. He's liberated. He's already liberated. Why he should aspire after liberation? He's already liberated. Go on.



Pradyumna: "Any kind of happiness derived from religiousness, economic development, liberation or sense gratification cannot even dare to enter into the heart of a pure devotee. It is stated that as the personal attendants and maidservants of a queen follow the queen with all respect and obeisances, similarly, the joys of religiousness, economic development, sense gratification and liberation follow the devotional service of the Lord. In other words, a pure devotee does not lack any kind of happiness derived from any source. He does not want anything but service to Kṛṣṇa, but even if he should have another desire, the Lord fulfills this without the devotee's asking."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally, a devotee is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. He's simply engaged to serve the Lord as He desires, just like Arjuna did. Other things follow. Just like a child who takes shelter of the father without any demand, the father sees to his necessities of life. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Kṛṣṇa, one who is fully surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa, and he's engaged in His devotional service, He would see what is the necessity of his life, what does he require. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. This is the process. Go on.



*Pradyumna: " 'Rareness of Pure Devotional Service.' In the preliminary phase of spiritual life there are different kinds of austerities, penances and similar processes for attaining self*-realization. However, even if an executor of these processes is without any material desire, he still cannot achieve devotional service. And aspiring by oneself alone to achieve devotional service is also not very hopeful because Kṛṣṇa does not award devotional service to merely anyone. Kṛṣṇa can easily offer a person material happiness or even liberation, but He does not agree very easily to award a person engagement in His devotional service."



*Prabhupāda: This is very confidential. To attain Kṛṣṇa's service, that is not so easy. You can get liberation-if you want from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa can give very easily*-or any material opulence. But to give engagement in devotional service, that requires very sincerity. As it is stated by Rūpa Gosvāmī, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Brs. 1.1.11]. People, generally, go to temple and churches for mitigating some material wants. Ārto arthārthī. Jijñāsī jñānī ārto arthārthī. Generally, people go to Kṛṣṇa to mitigate some material distresses, ārto, or one who is in need of money. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to Kṛṣṇa, he went to worship Kṛṣṇa under the instruction of his mother in the forest with a desire to achieve the kingdom of his father or better, better kingdom than his father. That was his aspiration. But later on, when he actually met the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he said, "My dear Lord, I have no other aspiration. I am completely satisfied." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. So this is the advantage of worshiping Kṛṣṇa. Even one has got some material desire, that material desires will be fulfilled. At the same time, he shall become a pure devotee, just like Dhruva Mahārāja became. He went to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, fulfillment, for fulfilling his material desires, but because he engaged himself in severe austerity and penances for having darśana, or seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, when he saw Him actually he forgot all his material desires. That is the advantage. We need not go to any other demigod for fulfilling our material desires.



*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramam puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



*Even if you have material desires, still, you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your material desires and at the end will give shelter at His lotus feet. This is the advantage of devotional service. Whereas if you worship other demigods, you may get some temporary benefit, but at the end, the benefit will be finished, you'll be finished, and the demigod who has given you the benediction, he will be also finished. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa*-medhasām [Bg. 7.23]. Therefore the conclusion is, even if we have got material desires... Generally, a devotee has no material desires, a pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. But even one has got some material desires to be fulfilled, if he worships Kṛṣṇa, that desires will be fulfilled. At the same time, he'll get shelter under the lotus feet of the Lord. This is the advantage. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Devotional service can in fact be attained only through the mercy of a pure devotee. In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it is said, 'By the mercy of the spiritual master who is a pure devotee and by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one can achieve the platform of devotional service. There is no other way.' The rarity of devotional service is also confirmed in the tantra-śāstra, where Lord Śiva says to Satī, 'My dear Satī, if one is a very fine philosopher, analyzing the different processes of knowledge, he can achieve liberation from the material entanglement. By performance of the ritualistic sacrifices recommended in the Vedas, one can be elevated to the platform of pious activities and thereby enjoy the material comforts of life to the fullest extent. But all such endeavors can hardly offer anyone devotional service to the Lord, not even if one tries for it by such processes for many, many thousands of births.' "



*Prabhupāda: You cannot achieve the platform of devotional service by karma*-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa processes. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings,



*karma*-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakali viṣera bhāṇḍa

amṛta baliyā yeba khāya

nānā yoni brahman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare

tāra janma adho pāte yāya



*So jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam: [Cc. Madhya 19.167] "Devotional service should not be contaminated by jñāna-kāṇḍa, karma-kāṇḍa, by fruitive activities or mental speculation." Devotional service should be taken exactly in the line of the great authorities. Just like our sampradāya, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, they are following... Rūpānuga.



*śrī*-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha

*śrī*-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha



*Ei chaya gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa. We have to follow the principles of these six Gosvāmīs. That will make us happy. Otherwise, if we adopt the ritualistic ceremonies, śubha*-karma... Sama-śubha-kriyā matir pramādaḥ. If we take devotional service as one of the pious activities, śubha-kriyā, that is offense. We should not take devotional service, or chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, equal to some Vedic pious activities, ritualistic ceremonies. It is offense. We should simply follow the path... That is also Vedic. But because we cannot select... Vedeṣu adurlabha. If we study Vedas independently, without going through the lines chalked out by the six Gosvāmīs, then we'll be misled. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. These Gosvāmīs, they were personal devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa. They are eternal associates of the Lord. Therefore if we follow their principle, our success if guaranteed. But if we take to the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies without any reference to the path chalked out by the Gosvāmīs, it will not be possible to be successful.



*Devotional service is not dependent on śubhāśubha*-karma. It is simply dependent on the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and His devotees. Kṛṣṇa de... Sādhu. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya. Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ [SB 7.5.32], mahīyasāṁ pāda-rajo-'bhiṣekam niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yā... Unless we surrender to the lotus feet of a pure devotee, it is not possible to come to the platform of devotional service. That is the way. We cannot taste the honey within the bottle. The bottle must be opened by the expert. If you simply lick up the bottle, if we think, "Now we are tasting honey," that is not the proper way. We should get the bottle opened by the expert, and when we taste within the bottle, then actually... Similarly, devotional service, without being opened by the..., open, without the door being opened by the devotee, we cannot enter into the region. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Therefore the process is, as recommended by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, ādau gurvāśrayam. You must select, you must accept the guru who's coming in paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Sampradāya. That is recommended. We have got Vaiṣṇava-sampradāya, four sampradāya: Rāmānuja-sampradāya, Madhva-sampradāya, Nimbārka-sampradāya. So intelligent persons should select guru from these sampradāyas and follow his instruction. Then the path of devotional service will be very easily opened. This is the way. Yes? Go on.

*Pradyumna: "In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is also confirmed by Prahlāda Mahārāja that merely by personal efforts or by the instructions of higher authorities one cannot attain to the stage of devotional service. One must become blessed by the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee who is completely freed from the contamination of material desires."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Niṣkiñcanam, the devotee, the... You have to select a guru who is niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcana means who has no more anything materially desires. He has finished. The, another verse:



tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



*One who has accept..., accepted the lotus feet of the Lord, brahmaṇy upaśama, he has finished the material desires*-no more material desires. Niṣkiñ... That is called niṣkiñcana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajanonmukha, those who are actually desiring to be entered into the path of devotional service, must be niṣkiñcana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya pāraṁ paraṁ jigamisor bhava-sāgarasya. Bhagavad-bhajana means to go on the other side of the ocean of nescience, not in this material world. Anyone who is desiring to be promoted to the heavenly planet, Svargaloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapoloka, Brahmaloka... There are so many higher planetary systems. But a bhagavad-bhakta, devotee, knows that they are unnecessary. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Again we have to come back. Kṣīṇe kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti [Bg. 9.21]. So this botheration is not very much liked by the pure devotee. Pure devotee does not... Even if he's offered such... Of course, a pure devotee (is) never offered such material benefits. Because Kṛṣṇa says, "The pure devotee, after giving up this body..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Punar janma means to take birth in one of the planets, or in one of the species of, out of eight million four hundred thousand species of life. That is called punar janma. But the devotees who are following Caitanya Mahaprābhu's instruction, they do not mind, even there is birth again. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, janmani janmani bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. So even there is birth... Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, kīṭa janma hao yathā tuyā dāsa. "My dear Lord, if You like that I shall take birth again, so kindly give my birth in a place where there is Your devotee." That is wanted. Bahir-mukha-brahma-janma nāhi mora āśa. "And if I become nondevotee and take my birth as Lord Brahmā, I don't want it. Let me become an insect in the house of a devotee." This is the aspiration... The same thing is explained here. Because without the benediction of a pure devotee, it is not possible to enter into the path of devotional service.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721111ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 11, 1972



Pradyumna: (reading:) "In the *Śrīmad Bhāgavatam*..." Uh. "In the Fifth Canto of *Śrīmad Bhāgavatam*, Sixth Chapter, 18th verse, Nārada also says to Yudhiṣṭhira, 'My dear King, it is Lord Kṛṣṇa, known as Mukunda, who is the eternal protector of the Pāṇḍavas and the Yadus. He is also your spiritual master and instructor in every respect. He is the only worshipable God for you. He is very dear and affectionate, and He is the director of all your activities, both individual and familial. And what's more, He sometimes carries out your orders as if He were your messenger! My dear King, how very fortunate you are because for others all these favors given to you by the Supreme Lord would not even be dreamt of.' The purport of this verse is that the Lord easily offers liberation, but He rarely agrees to offer a soul devotional service, because by devotional service the Lord Himself becomes purchased by the devotee."



Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on.



*Pradyumna: " 'The Happiness of Becoming One with the Supreme.' Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says that if brahmānanda, or the happiness of becoming one with the Supreme, is multiplied by one trillionfold, still, it cannot be compared with an atomic fraction of the happiness derived from the ocean of devotional service. In the Hari*-bhakti-sudhodaya... Prahlāda Mahārāja, while satisfying Lord Nṛsiṁha by his prayers, says, 'My dear Lord of the universe, I am feeling transcendental pleasure in Your presence and have become merged in the ocean of happiness. I now consider the happiness of brahmānanda to be no more than the water in the impression left by a cow's hoof in the earth, compared to this ocean of bliss.' Similarly, it is confirmed in the Bhāvārtha-dīpikā, Śrīdhara Swami's commentary on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: 'My dear Lord, some of the fortunate persons who are swimming in the ocean of Your nectar of devotion, and who are relishing the nectar of the narration of Your pastimes, certainly know ecstasies which immediately minimize the value of the happiness derived from religiousness, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. Such a transcendental devotee regards any kind of happiness other than devotional service as no better than straw in the street.' "



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Pradyumna: " 'Attracting Kṛṣṇa.' Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has stated that devotional service at..."



Prabhupāda: Any, any question arises, you can ask.



*Pradyumna: "Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has stated that devotional service attracts even Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone, but devotional service attracts Kṛṣṇa. The symbol of devotional service in the highest degree is Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa is called Madana*-mohana, which means that He is so attractive that He can defeat the attraction of thousands of Cupids. But Rādhārāṇī is still more attractive, for She can even attract Kṛṣṇa. Therefore devotees call Her Madana-mohana-mohinī, the attractor of the attractor of Cupid. To perform devotional service means to follow in the footsteps of Rādhārāṇī..."



*Prabhupāda: Madana*-mohana, Madana-mohana. Madana means sex attraction. Madana, sex attraction, Cupid, and Kṛṣṇa is called Madana-mohana. One can, I mean, neglect even sex attraction if one is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is the test. Madana (is) attracting in this material world. Everyone is attracted by sex life. The whole material world is existing on sex life. This is the fact. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-suhkhaṁ hi tuccham. Here, the happiness, the so-called happiness is maithuna, maithunādi. Maithunādi means here happiness begins from maithuna, sex intercourse. Generally, people..., a man marries. The purpose is to satisfy sex desire. Then he begets children. Then again, when the children are grown up, they, the daughter is married with another boy and the boy is married with another daughter, another girl. That is also the same purpose: sex. Then again, grandchildren. In this way, this material happiness-śriyaiśvarya-prajepsavaḥ. The other day we discussed. Śrī means beauty, aiśvarya means wealth, and prajā means generation. So generally, people, they like it-good family, good bank balance and good wife, good daughter, daughter-in-law. If one family is consisting of beautiful women and riches and grea..., many children, he is supposed to be successful. He's supposed to be most successful man. So śāstra says, "What is this success? This success is beginning with sex intercourse. That's all. And maintaining them." So yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Here the happiness begins from sex life, maithunādi. We may polish it in a different way, but this maithuna, sex life happiness, is there in the hogs. The hogs also, they are eating whole day, here and there: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" and having sex life without any discrimination. The hogs do not discriminate whether mother, sister or daughter. So therefore śāstra says, "Here, this material world, we are entangled, we are encaged in this material world only for this sex life." That is Cupid. Cupid is the god of sex life, Madana. Unless one is, what is called, induced by Madana, the Cupid, he cannot be, I mean to say, engladdened in sex life. And Kṛṣṇa's name is Mādana-mohana. Mādana-mohana means that one who is attracted to Kṛṣṇa, he'll forget the pleasure derived from sex life. This is the test. Therefore His name is Mādana-mohana. Here is Mādana-mohana. Sanātana Gosvāmī worshiped Mādana-mohana. Mādana or Mādana. Mādana means to become mad. And Madana, the Cupid.



*So everyone is infuriated by the force of sex life. There are many places... In Bhāgavatam it is said, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī*-bhāvam etat tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhur. The whole material world is going on: the man is attracted by woman, the woman is attracted by man. And, seeking this attraction, when they are united, their attachment for this material world becomes more and more. And in this way, after being united, or after being married, one woman and man, they seek nice home, gṛha; *kṣetra, activities, business, factory, or agricultural field. Because one has to earn money. So get food. Gṛha*-kṣetra; suta, children; and āpta, friends; *vitta, wealth... Ataḥ gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam [SB 5.5.8]. The attraction for this material world becomes more and more tight. This is called madana, attraction by madana. But our business is not to be attracted by the glimmer of this material world, but to be attracted by Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Unless you become attracted by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa, we must have to be satisfied by beauty of this false beauty of this material world. Therefore Śrī Yamunācārya said that yadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor nava-nava-dhāma rantum āsīt: "So long I have been attracted by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa and I have begun to serve at His lotus feet, and I am getting newer, newer energy, since then, as soon as I think of sex intercourse, I want to spite on it." That is vitṛṣṇā, no more attraction... The central point of attraction of this material world is sex life, and one, when one gets detached from sex life... Tadāvadhi mama cetaḥ...,

*yadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor

*nava*-nava-(rasa-)dhām(anudyata) rantum āsīt

*tadāvadhi bata nārī*-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*"As soon as I think of sex intercourse, immediately my mouth becomes turned aside and I want to spite on it." So therefore Kṛṣṇa is Madana*-mohana. Madana is attracting everyone, sex life, and Kṛṣṇa, when one is attracted by Kṛṣṇa, then madana also becomes defeated. So as soon as madana becomes defeated, we conquer over this material world. Otherwise it is very difficult. The... Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Duratyayā means very, very difficult. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. But if anyone surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa, catches His lotus feet very strongly, "Kṛṣṇa, save me," Kṛṣṇa promises, "Yes, I'll save you." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. "Don't worry. I shall save you." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. "My dear Arjuna, you can declare to the world, My devotee, pure devotee, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Brs. 1.1.11], who has no other desire, he'll be protected by Me."



*So people do not know that our only business is to take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business. We have no other business. Any other business means we are becoming entangled in this material world. And the aim of human life is to get out of these clutches of material world. People do not know it. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. So it is very difficult; still, Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered to distribute this knowledge all over the world. So let us try. Even the people do not take our instruction, that is not our disqualification. Our qualification is let us try our best. The māyā is very strong. To take the living entities out of the clutches of māyā is not very easy thing. My Guru Mahārāja used to say... He had so many temples all over India, and he used to say sometimes that "If by selling all these properties, temples, if I could turn one man to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then my mission will be successful." He used to say that. So our purpose is not to construct big, big buildings. That is required for propaganda work, for giving shelter to people. But our main business is how to turn the face of the bewildered conditioned souls towards Kṛṣṇa. That is our method. That is our main purpose. Therefore, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and other Vaiṣṇavas, they did not advise to give much attention for constructing big, big temples and maṭhas. Because if our attention is diverted towards these material things... Material things means, as I have repeatedly explained, forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there is no, nothing material. It is illusion. Illusion means actually there is nothing material. How it can be material? If the Supreme Lord is Supreme Spirit, everything is coming from Him, so what we call the material energy, that is also coming from the Supreme.

*But the difficulty is that in this inferior energy... Inferior energy means where there is possibility of forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Actually, that is the fact. People are engaged in so many activities. We can see it very nicely in the Western countries. They are inventing so many modern facilities. But the result is they're forgetting Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, there is nothing except Kṛṣṇa. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja, yes, Nārada Mahārāja said that "This world is Kṛṣṇa." Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. "But it appears like that it is different from Bhagavān." Actually, there is... For a mahā*-bhāgavata, he has no such conception, material conception, because he sees everywhere Kṛṣṇa. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. He's seeing one tree, but he is, he's forgetful of the tree. He's seeing energy of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as he sees the energy of Kṛṣṇa, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Therefore instead of seeing the tree, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Because one after, after, coming, reference to the context. As soon as he sees anything we call material, he sees this is the conversion of the energy. Pariṇāma-vāda. Sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Parasya bra... Just like as soon as you see the sunshine, you see immediately sun. Is it not? In the morning, as soon as you see within your window the sunshine, immediately you remember sun and you are confident sun is there. Without sun, how there can be sunshine? Similarly, whatever we see, if we immediately see Kṛṣṇa, with reference to that particular thing... Because that particular thing is the manifestation of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. So those who have understood Kṛṣṇa along with His energies, he sees the energy, because energy is not different from the energetic, he sees immediately Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, he does not see anything except Kṛṣṇa. So therefore, for him, there is no material world. There is no material world. To a perfect devotee, there is no material world. Everything is spiritual. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. He sees everything Brahman.

*So we have to make our eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Tat*-paratvena nirmalam.

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*Tat*-paratvena. As soon as we are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, our seeing, touching, smelling-everything become nirmala, purified. Then we can immediately see Kṛṣṇa. These eyes, so long it is not purified, we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. As soon as it is purified, you see Kṛṣṇa. As soon as it is purified, you see Kṛṣṇa, nothing but Kṛṣṇa. So this is the process. So devotional service means purification.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*So Cupid, Cupid is one of the agents of this material, illusory energy, but if we are perfectly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this Cupid cannot pierce with our arrows, with his arrows. That is not possible. As Yamunācārya says, that tadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa*-pa..., yadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindo... So to a devotee... Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You know the story of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was young man, and the Māyā, and a prostitute, they came, young prostitute, nicely dressed, and proposed her desire. Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, "Yes, please sit down. I shall fulfill your desire. Let me finish my chanting." Just see. At dead of night, a young man, Haridāsa Ṭhākura; in front, there is a beautiful young girl; there is nobody else; *and she's proposing. But still, he's steady, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. So Cupid cannot pierce. This is the example. There may be thousands of beautiful women before a devotee, but that does not disturb his mind. He sees they're all energies of Kṛṣṇa. "They are gopīs of Kṛṣṇa. They are enjoyable by Kṛṣṇa. I have to serve them. They're gopīs. Because I am servant of the servant." Gopī*-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayoḥ dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. So a devotee should try to engage all beautiful women in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is his duty. Not to enjoy them. That is sense gratification. This is the position of a devotee. He's not pierced by the arrows of Cupid, but he sees everything, nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. He sees everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. That is vairāgyam. He does not accept anything for his sense gratification, but he engages everyone in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Then we can get out of the influence of the arrow of Cupid. This is the process. Go on.



Pradyumna: "To perform devotional service means to follow in the footsteps of Rādhārāṇī, and devotees in Vṛndāvana put themselves under the care of Rādhārāṇī in order to achieve perfection in their devotional service. In other words, devotional service is not an activity of the material world; *it is directly under the control of Rādhārāṇī. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is confirmed that the mahātmās, or great souls, are under the protection of daivī prakṛti, the internal energy-Rādhārāṇī. So, being directly under the control of the internal potency of Kṛṣṇa, devotional service attracts even Kṛṣṇa Himself."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya*-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. Here we are under the influence of this material energy, but those who are devotee of Kṛṣṇa, they are under the influence of internal energy. The internal energy of Kṛṣṇa, it has got three different functions. One of the function is hlādinī śakti. That is Rādhārāṇī. That is Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa.



*rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api (bhuvi purā) deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*śrī*-caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptam...

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa..., that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is... That is the version of Śrī Svarūpa Dāmodara, that "Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, They are one, Kṛṣṇa." When Kṛṣṇa wants to enjoy, He manifests His energy. That is Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa cannot enjoy the material energy; *He enjoys the internal energy. Kṛṣṇa has got many energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, svābhāvakī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. That is the Vedic version, that the Supreme Absolute Truth has got multi-energies, and by utilizing, manipulating that energy, He is manifesting Himself in so many ways. The same example: just like the sun, by expanding its energy, heat and light, is perceived. The sun is ninety-three million miles away from us. So how we can understand the sun? By his heat and energy. By his heat, we can calculate what is the actual temperature. The scientists are calculating the actual temperature of the sun. So similarly, although Kṛṣṇa is far, far away from us... Goloka eva nivasati. He's residing in His abode, Goloka, Vṛndāvana. This is the replica of that Vṛndāvana. So akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. How He's akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]? How He's all-pervading? By His energy. By His energy. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā: mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4]. That energy is avyakta, impersonal. But Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is person. Just like the sun-god, he's a person, but his energy, sunshine and heat, that is impersonal. To reach impersonal feature of the sun or the sunshine is not approaching the sun. It is approaching and not approaching. It is approaching in the sense that directly in touch with his energy, but still, the sun globe and the sun*-god is far away. Similarly, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. To approach the impersonal feature of Brahman is not sufficient. We have to approach Kṛṣṇa. So the Rādhārāṇī, the personal,... His energy's also personal. So mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. If we take shelter of His external energy, where forgetfulness, Kṛṣṇa, is very prominent, then we become far and far away from Kṛṣṇa. But if we take shelter of the internal energy of Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī, because She's directly serving Kṛṣṇa... Just like in Vṛndāvana, they always speak of Rādhārāṇī because they have taken shelter of Rādhārāṇī to approach Kṛṣṇa very easily. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. The facility of Vṛndāvana is that you take shelter of Rādhārāṇī directly and She will help you to approach Kṛṣṇa very soon. This is the idea of coming to Vṛndāvana. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "This fact is corroborated by Kṛṣṇa in the Eleventh Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Chapter, 1st verse, where He says, 'My dear Uddhava, you may know it from Me that the attraction I feel for devotional service rendered by My devotees is not to be attained even by the performance of mystic yoga, philosophical speculation, ritualistic sacrifices, the study of Vedānta, the practice of severe austerities or the giving of everything in charity. These are, of course, very nice activities, but they are not as attractive to Me as the transcendental loving service rendered to My devotees.' How Kṛṣṇa becomes attracted by the devotional service of His devotees is described by Nārada in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, Tenth Chapter, 37th verse. There Nārada addresses King Yudhiṣṭhira while the King is appreciating the glories of the character of Prahlāda Mahārāja. A devotee always appreciates the qualities of other devotees."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the sign of devotee: appreciation (of) the activities of devotee. This appreciation means a devotee who is actually freed from all contamination, he does not find any fault with other devotee. That is the sign. He does not think himself that he is bigger devotee or greater devotee than others. He thinks himself as the lowest of all. As Caitanya, as Caitanya*-caritāmṛta author, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, says, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se lagiṣṭha: [Cc. Ādi 5.205] "I am lower than the insect within the stool." Jagāi-mādhāi haite se muñi pāpiṣṭha: "I am greater sinner than Jagāi and Mādhāi." Mora nāma yei laya tāra puṇya kṣaya: "Anyone who takes my name, immediately, all the result of his pious activities becomes vanquished." He's placing like that. Because it is not imitation or any bluff. He's... Any devotee who's actually advanced, he feels like that. Just like great scientist, Sir Isaac Newton, he used to say that "I have simply collected a few grains of sand in the ocean of knowledge." Yes. He used to say. And actually, that is the fact. Everything is unlimited. So nobody should be proud falsely that he has become a great devotee. Everyone should be very humble.



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



If one thinks that he has become very advanced in devotion, then that is very dangerous. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana: [Cc. Ādi 7.71] "My spiritual master saw Me a great fool. Therefore he has chastised Me, that 'Don't try to read the Vedānta. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " He presented Himself like that. Is Caitanya Mahāprabhu mūrkha? But that is the conception, advanced devotee. They never think that they are very highly advanced devotees. What is advanced devotee? What devotion we can offer to Kṛṣṇa? He's unlimited. He's kindly accepting our little service. That's all. Don't be proud of becoming a great devotee. That is the cause of falldown.



Thank you very much. (end)



721112ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 12, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading:) "How Kṛṣṇa becomes attracted by the devotional service of His devotees is described by Nārada in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, Tenth Chapter, 37th verse. There Nārada addresses King Yudhiṣṭhira while the King is appreciating the glories of the character of Prahlāda Mahārāja. A devotee always appreciates the activities of other devotees. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was appreciating the qualities of Prahlāda, and that is one symptom of a pure devotee. A pure devotee never thinks himself as great; he always thinks that other devotees are greater than himself. The King was thinking, 'Prahlāda Mahārāja is actually a devotee of the Lord, while I am nothing,' and while thinking this, he was addressed by Nārada as follows: 'My dear King Yudhiṣṭhira, in this world you, the Pāṇḍava brothers, are the only fortunate people. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has appeared on this planet and is presenting Himself to you as an ordinary human being. He is always with you in all circumstances. He is living with you and covering Himself from the eyes of others. Others cannot understand that He is the Supreme Lord, but He is still living with you as your cousin, as your friend and even as your messenger. Therefore you must know that nobody in this world is more fortunate than you.'



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā when Kṛṣṇa appeared in His universal form, Arjuna prayed, 'My dear Kṛṣṇa, I thought of You as my cousin-brother, and so I have shown disrespect to You in so many ways, calling You Kṛṣṇa, or friend, but You are so great that I could not understand.' So that was the position of the Pāṇḍavas; although Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the greatest among all greats, still He remained with those royal brothers, being attracted by their devotion, by their friendship and by their love. That is the proof of how great this process of devotional service is. It can attract even the Supreme Personality of Godhead. God is great, but devotional service is greater than God because it attracts Him. People who are not in devotional service can never understand what great value there is in rendering service to the Lord.

*'The First Stages of Devotion.' The three categories of devotional service which Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī describes in Bhakti*-Rasamrta-Sindhu are listed as devotional service in practice, devotional service in ecstasy and devotional service in pure love of Godhead. There are many subheadings in each of these categories. Generally, it is understood that in the category of devotional service in practice there are two different qualities; devotional service in ecstasy has four qualities; *and devotional service in pure love of Godhead has six qualities. These qualities will be explained by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī later on. In this connection, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī suggest that the person..., that the person eligible for Kṛṣṇa consciousness or devotional service can be classified by his particular taste. He says that devotional service is a continual process from one's previous life. No one can take to devotional service unless he has had some previous connection with it. For example, suppose in this life I practice some devotional service to some extent. Even though it is not one hundred percent perfectly performed, still, whatever I have done will not be lost. In my next life, from the very point where I stopped in this life, I shall begin again. In this way there is always a continuity. But even if there is no continuity, if only by chance a person takes interest in a pure devotee's instruction, he can be accepted and advance in devotional service. Anyway, for persons who have a natural taste for understanding books like the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, devotional service is easier than for those who are simply accustomed to mental speculation and argumentative processes."

*Prabhupāda: So Nārada Muni instructed to Vyāsadeva under the verse, tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer: [SB 1.5.17] "Even one takes to devotional service, takes shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, some way or other..." Kāmād lobhād bhayāt, as it is stated in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. Just like the gopīs, they took shelter of Kṛṣṇa superficially by lusty desire. But it was not lusty desire. It was pure love. But in the material world same thing will be considered as lusty desire. So where is the difference between love of God and lusty desire? Because ordinary men will consider that gopīs were attracted by Kṛṣṇa in lusty desire. So Caitanya-caritāmṛta Kaja, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he says that there is difference between material lusty desire and love of God. He has compared that love of God is just like gold, and lusty desire is just like iron. So the difference between lusty desire and love of God is: in the material world, which is going on as love, that is lusty desire. Because the party, both the parties are interested in individual sense gratification. But here, the gopīs, or any devotees, they want to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between material lusty desire and love of Godhead. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā tāra nāma kāma [Cc. Ādi 4.165]. When one desires one's own sense gratification... In the material world, suppose a boy loves a girl and a girl loves a boy. That is personal sense gratification. As soon as the personal sense gratification is not satisfied, immediately the so-called love is divorced. No more love. In the Kali-yuga, it is stated in the śāstras, dāmpatye ratim eva hi. In... Love between husband and wife will be disturbed as soon as there is no satisfaction of sex desires. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. And in the Western countries, we find... In our country also, it has already begun; there are so many divorce cases. Mostly the divorce cases take place when there is disturbance in sex, sex satisfaction. So that is lust. But here, in the case of Kṛṣṇa and gopīs, that is different thing. The gopīs used to dress themselves so that Kṛṣṇa will feel satisfied, satisfaction. For Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. They used to dress for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is, of course, very difficult to understand. But we should learn from the śāstras. The gopīs had no sense gratification desire. They wanted to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.



*kṛṣṇendriya*-prīti-vāñchā tāra nāma prema

*ātmendriya*-prīti-vāñchā dhare, tāre nāma kāma

[Cc. Ādi 4.165]



*So that is the difference. Love of Kṛṣṇa means to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not satisfy sense gratification. We... The practical example is from Bhagavad*-gītā. Arjuna, Arjuna, in the beginning, he wanted to satisfy his senses. He declined to fight with his grandfather, with his teacher, with his nephew and brother on the other side. He thought that upon their death, he'll not be satisfied. That means sense, his sense gratification. But at the end, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, the essence of Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66],... Our duty is to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa. So then he, to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, he killed his kinsmen, his grandfather, his teacher. So that is required-satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, not satisfaction of personal interest. Go on reading.



*Pradyumna: "To support this statement there are many authoritative assertions by the learned scholars of bygone ages. According to their general opinion, a person may become governed by certain convictions derived by his own arguments and decisions. Then another person, who may be a greater logician, will nullify these conclusions and establish another thesis. In this way, the path of argument will never be safe or conclusive. The Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam recommends therefore that one follow in the footsteps of the authorities. Here is the general..."



*Prabhupāda: Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You cannot come to the conclusion what is śraddhā and sādhana by simply argument. Tarko apratistha. By argument, we cannot establish. Śrutayo vibhinnā. The scriptures are many varieties. Śrutayor vibhinnā nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And every philosopher must differ with another philosopher. Therefore, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: We have to follow the footprints of great authorities. They are also mentioned in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, great authorities:



svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kapilaḥ kumāro manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



*Yamarāja said that "These are the eight authorities." Therefore we have got sampradāya: Brahma*-sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya, then Lakṣmī-sampradāya, Śrī-sampradāya, and Kumāra-sampradāya. The present ācāryas, they are Rāmānuja-sampradāya, Śrī-sampradāya, Madhva-sampradāya, Brahma-sampradāya. In this way... So we have to follow the footprints of the sampradāya. Just like we are Gauḍīya, Mādhva-Gauḍīya-sampradāya. We are following the footprints of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as enunciated by the six Gosvāmīs,



*śrī*-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha

*śrī*-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha



*So we have to follow the authorities. We cannot manufacture. There is no need of research work. Simply if we follow the chalked*-out path given by the great authorities, that will help us. Yes, go on.



*Pradyumna: "Here is a general description of devotional service given by Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī in his Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Previously it has been stated that devotional service can be divided into three categories-namely, devotional service in practice, devotional service in ecstasy, and devotional service in pure love of God. Now Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī proposes to describe devotional service in practice. Practice means employing our senses in some particular type of work. Therefore devotional service is practice means utilizing our different sensory organs in service to Kṛṣṇa. Some of the senses are meant for acquiring knowledge, and some are meant for executing the conclusions of our thinking, feeling and willing. So practice means employing both the mind and the senses in practical devotional service. This practice is not for developing something artificial. For example, a child learns or practices to walk. This walking is not unnatural. The walking capacity is there originally in the child, and simply by a little practice he walks very nicely. Similarly..."



*Prabhupāda: Nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. Not that by practicing something external, not natural, we become accustomed. That is also sometimes there. But this devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is not that type of practice. It is there already. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabu naya. Not actually by artificial prac... It is there. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. It is to be awakened. Exactly just like the, the child, by nature, he can walk, but still, if some help is offered to the child, he walks very nicely. So this practice, vidhi-mārga, devotional service, is simply to awaken the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness within the human being. Just like it is happening in our preaching work in the Western countries. These European, American boys, they never heard the name of Kṛṣṇa four years ago, but they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously because it was already dormant in them. It has been simply awakened. By chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, this pure vibration of transcendental sound has enlivened them, and they are awakened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that artificially they have taken. It is sure. Anyone can test how much they have advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how they are firmly convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because it has been awakened. The nature, which was dormant, that has been awakened by...



*That is the propaganda work of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He wanted that in every town and every village of the world, on the surface of the globe, His name, the preaching of saṅkīrtana movement, inaugurated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, should be preached. The purpose was the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there everywhere. That we are experiencing. Now in Africa also, who are supposed to be not very advanced in civilization, they're also very nicely taking part in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. European, Americans, they are advanced, civilized people, but even in Africa we are having very good success. They are becoming Vaiṣṇavas. So... And it is, in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ [SB 2.4.18]. So these kirātas are the Africans. So they are also becoming interested, hūṇa, āndhra and others who are considered to be low-born according to Vedic civilization. But still, the Vedic civilization does not prohibit anyone to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By our karma, we may be high born or low born. That does not matter. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any material impediment. That is not possible. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is natural. And Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. He says that even though some people are considered to be pāpa-yoni, low-born, it doesn't matter, but he can accept the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā. Still more low-born than these people, śudhyanti, they can be purified if they actually take shelter of a pure devotee. They can be purified. That is the injunction of the śāstras, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śudhyanti. People may argue how such low-born people can be purified. That reply is: prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. It is the supreme power of Lord Viṣṇu. It is possible.

*Kṛṣṇa says... Now, Kṛṣṇa says that everyone can be delivered simply by the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So whose duty is to enlighten them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I was just talking with Gosvāmījī, Harijana Gosvāmījī. Whose duty it is to enliven people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? It is the duty of guru. We came to this conclusion. And who is guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma*-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. That means perfectly learned in Vedic literature and firmly convinced in Brahman realization. That means first-class brāhmaṇa. So if the first-class brāhmaṇas do not take care of these pāpa-yoni, then who will deliver them? We are the... Some agitation is going on that this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is killing Hindu religion. You see. Just see the poor fund of knowledge. It is the duty of the first-class brāhmaṇa to enlighten these pāpa-yoni. Otherwise who will enlighten them? Guru will enlighten. And who is guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Brahma-niṣṭham means he must be brāhmaṇa. So if the so-called brāhmaṇas, they do not take care of them, and if they remain brāhmaṇas, limited, within some limited areas, do not go outside, then who will deliver them? So these are not very sound arguments. It is very, what is called, crippled ideas. The brāhmaṇa means udāra. The opposite word of brāhmaṇa is kṛpaṇa, who is very miserly. A brāhmaṇa cannot be miser. Even a hundred years ago the brāhmaṇa would give chance to anyone to become brāhmaṇa. I have got so many instances. That is the duty of brāhmaṇa. Paṭhana pāṭhana. The brāhmaṇa should be learned, and a brāhmaṇa should make others learned, other brāhmaṇa, not that be simply satisfied that he's brāhmaṇa and nobody should become brāhmaṇa. No. He should make others brāhmaṇa. Just like a big lawyer, he makes his assistants lawyer. A professor, learned professor, he makes others professor. Otherwise, it is called jñāna-khala, miser. The knowledge should be distributed. Any scientist discovering, they distribute it. Similarly, brāhmaṇa should be udāra. Not only he should personally know what is Brahman, but he should distribute the knowledge. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*It is the duty of the brāhmaṇa. Paropakāra. And without being human being, how he can become a brāhmaṇa? Cats and dogs cannot become brāhmaṇa. The perfect human being means brāhmaṇa, the first*-class, perfect being. That is brāhmaṇa. And brāhmaṇa's duty is for paropakāra. Paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigraha. Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, avaiṣṇava-gurur na sa syāt. A... One who is Vaiṣṇava... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He becomes guru because He's udāra. Vaiṣṇava means para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.



*vāñchā*-kalpatarubhyaś ca

*kṛpā*-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo...



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.]



Vaiṣṇava is patitānām pāvana. He can deliver all the fallen souls.



*So we have become crippled. Therefore we are talking this, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is killing our Hindu principles." No. It is really, actually Vedic principle that one should be learned, and he should distribute the knowledge for paropakāra. That is brahminism. Para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. These are the statements in the śāstra. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. These Gosvāmīs, they compiled this... Rūpa Gosvāmī compiled this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu not for the study, a few selected persons. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: for the benefit of the whole human society. And actually that is happening. We have translated this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu in English, and we have got the greatest sale of this book. Everyone is picking up. It is a study book in the Temple University of United States. They like it. So it is required. We have got so much treasure-house of knowledge. They should be, each and every book should be..., at least, Vaiṣṇava literature, Bhāgavata literature, should be translated into English and distributed all over the world. That is lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, to benefit the whole human society. Not to remain crippled within a boundary. That is not brahminism, that is not Vaiṣṇavism.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730125ND.CAL

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Calcutta, January 25, 1973



*Devotee: (reading) "...of bygone ages. According to the general opinion, a person may become governed by certain convictions derived by his own arguments and decisions. Then another person, who may be a greater logician, will nullify these conclusions and establish another thesis. In this way the path of argument will never be safe or conclusive. The Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam recommends, therefore, that one follow in the footsteps of the authorities."



Prabhupāda: Yes. To make progress in devotional service, one cannot manufacture anything. The authoritative statements of ācā ryas, that we'll have to follow. Mahājana yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. We should not manufacture, invent anything. As they are stated in the śāstras, confirmed by spiritual master and ācāryas, that will be accepted. Nobody can say, "I think devotional service should be like this." No. Therefore spiritual master is the guidance. He is the representative of the ācāryas. In this way, we should make progress, not by concoction. Go on.



*Devotee: "Here is a general description of devotional service given by Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī in his Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Previously, it has been stated that devotional service can be divided into three categories-namely devotional service in practice, devotional service in ecstasy, and devotional service in pure love of God. Now Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī proposes to describe devotional service in practice. Practice means employing our senses in some particular type of work. Therefore devotional service in practice means utilizing our different sensory organs in service to Kṛṣṇa. Some of the senses are meant for acquiring knowledge and are..., and some are meant for executing the conclusions of our thinking, feeling and willing. So practice means employing both the mind and the senses in practical devotional service. This practice is not for developing something artificial. For example, a child learns or practices to walk. This walking is not unnatural. The walking capacity is there originally in the child, and simply by a little practice he walks very nicely. Similarly, devotional service to the Supreme Lord is the natural instinct of every living entity. Even uncivilized men like the aborigines offer their respectful obeisances to something wonderful exhibited by nature's law, and they appreciate that behind some wonderful exhibition or action there is something supreme. So this consciousness, though lying dormant in those who are materially contaminated, is found in every living entity. And, when purified, this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: This obedience, the sense of obedience to higher authorities, to love somebody, these propensities are there in everyone. Even a child, we have seen, when there is saṅkīrtana, they also clap their hands. They also try to dance. This is natural. So this has to be little organized. That is called practice. Otherwise the things are there, dormant. Sometimes by bad association that dormant propensities are cut down. They forget. The present situation is like that. The so*-called material advancement has curbed down the dormant propensities for loving God, or Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. Jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava, tomāra bhajane bādhā. The more artificially we make advancement of material civilization, the more we become away from devotional service. Practically we can see. People are engaged in developing their material resources. Everyone is busy. And we, if our men approach, then they think it is simply waste of time. "All right. They're asking something. Give them some money. Let them go away, and let my business be done nicely." So this is the propensities observed (by) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. The more we advance in material civilization, we become backward in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our principle is, therefore, to minimize the artificial necessities of life, as much as possible. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Anāsaktasya viṣayān. We should eat, sleep, not for material comfort. But eating is required. Without eating, we cannot live. Sleeping is required, to give rest for some time. For that purpose, we shall eat, sleep... Nirbandha kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Anāsaktasya viṣayān. We should not be attached. That will make our spiritual progress firm. Yes. Go on. Go on.



*Devotee: "There are certain prescribed methods for employing our senses and mind in such a way that our dormant consciousness for loving Kṛṣṇa will be invoked as much as the child, with a little practice, can begin to walk. One who has no basic walking capacity cannot walk by practice. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be aroused simply by practice. Actually there is no such practice. When we wish to develop our innate capacity for devotional service, there are certain processes which by our accepting and executing them will cause that dormant capacity to be invoked. Such practice is called sādhana*-bhakti."



*Prabhupāda: Sādhana*-bhakti, rāga-bhakti, prema-bhakti-these three divisions. So first of all we have to accept sādhana-bhakti. Means practicing. Go on.



*Devotee: "Every living entity under the spell of material energy is known to be in an abnormal condition of madness. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, 'Generally the conditioned soul is mad because he is always engaged in activities which are the causes of bondage and suffering.' Spirit soul in its original condition is joyful, blissful, eternal and full of knowledge. Only by his implication in material activities has he become miserable, temporary and full of ignorance. This is due to vikarma. Vikarma means actions which should not be done. Therefore we must practice sādhana-bhakti*-which means to offer maṅgala-ārātrika (Deity worship) in the morning, to refrain from certain material activities, to offer obeisances to the spiritual master and to follow many other rules and regulations which will be discussed here one after another. These practices will help one to become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the direction of a psychiatrist, so this sādhana-bhakti cures the conditioned soul of his madness under the spell of māyā, material illusion."



Prabhupāda: Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to be taken as crazy, or mad.



*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya



*Just like when a man becomes ghostly haunted, he does something abnormal. He cannot recognize his own men. He calls his father by ill names. So many disturbances. So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. They are so mad that they are engaged only in sinful activities. There are three karmas: karma, akarma, vikarma. Karma does not mean whatever you like you can do. No. Karma means prescribed duties. Janma karma, uh, guṇa karma. As you are under the spell of certain material modes of nature... Someone is under the modes of goodness, his karma will be different from the person who is under the spell of the modes of ignorance. That will be decided by the teacher, or by the ācāryas. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā that one who is under the spell of goodness, his qualities, his symptoms are like this: satya śama dama titikṣa [Bg. 18.42]. Similarly, one who is under the spell of passion, his symptoms are like this. Just like a diseased man... If you go to a physician, by your symptoms he can understand that you have got a certain type of disease and he gives you the right medicine. Similarly Bhagavad-gītā you'll find who is under the spell of the modes of ma..., uh, yes, goodness. If he's very sober, intelligent, can understand things as they are, they are to be understood in the modes of goodness. Those who are very much passionate, simply wants to enjoy sense enjoyment, they are in the modes of passion. And those who are lazy, very fond of sleeping, nidrālasya, he's to be understood in the modes of ignorance. These are the symptoms. And according to the modes, they act. Therefore bhakti is not prohibited to either of them. Either in goodness or passion or ignorance*-it doesn't matter. Anyone can take to devotional service, sādhana-bhakti, provided he agrees to be guided by the direction of the spiritual master. Bhakti is transcendental. It doesn't matter whether one is in goodness, passion or ignorance. Anyone can take.



*That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Pāpa-yonayaḥ means the lowest part of ignorance. So Kṛṣṇa recommends that anyone, even in pāpa-yoni striya, vaiśyās tathā śūdrās... Stri, women, and vaiśya and śūdra, they're also considered not very in higher position. But Kṛṣṇa says all of them, if they take to real path of devotional service under the direction of spiritual master, then that is sādhana-bhakti. To act under the direction of spiritual master... Spiritual master directs means he knows śāstra. According to the direction of śāstra or ācāryas, he gives direction. And if we follow, that is called sādhana-bhakti. That is called practice. In the beginning, sādhana-bhakti must be there. Then when you get attachment for Kṛṣṇa, that is called rāga-bhakti. And the more you increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa, then it will come to the stage of prema-bhakti. You don't become kṛṣṇa-premī all of a sudden. "Now I have become kṛṣṇa-premī. Let me cry." And then, after crying, "Oh, my throat is now dried up. Give me cigarette." This kind of bhakti has no value. You'll see so many sahajiyās, professionals: they can cry, but they have no love for Kṛṣṇa. I have seen one professional reciter. He can cry, and he gathers many people around him. But by his writing, by his speech, we can understand that he has no faith in Kṛṣṇa. In Bombay I have seen. When he writes... Tāvac śobhate mūrkha yāvān kiñcin na bhāṣate (?). A mūrkha, a rascal, can be beautiful as long as he does not speak or write. But as soon as one speaks and writes, we can understand what is the locus standus of that person. Simply crying will not help. One who will cry for Kṛṣṇa, he will never come down to the material platform. That crying is not so easy. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to cry, He also said, "I am crying for make-show." So crying automatically comes when actually if we are in prema-bhakti. But we have to go that stage gradually, not by imitating. Sādhana-bhakti, rāga-bhakti. Then prema-bhakti. Go on.

*Devotee: "Nārada Muni mentions this sādhana*-bhakti in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, First Chapter, 30th verse. He says there to King Yudhiṣṭhira, 'My dear King, one has to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa by any means.' This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the duty of the ācārya, the spiritual master, to find the ways and means for his disciple to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of sādhana-bhakti."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very important thing. Some way or other, one has to fix up his mind in Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is not stereotyped. It is general. If you want to serve Kṛṣṇa, there are so many ways. Just like in our society: somebody is painting, somebody is writing on typewriter, sometime somebody is engaged in propagating or selling the magazine or editing the magazine. So many different duties. So it is, it is the spiritual master's business to see the disciple, in which way he has got the tendency. And he tries to utilize his natural tendency in the matter of serving Kṛṣṇa. One has got tendency for a certain thing. That tendency can be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service also. It is not difficult. Simply it requires training and guidance. Sva*-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya, saṁsiddhi labhate naraḥ [Bg. 18.46]. One has got a particular tendency to work. By that work, if it is nicely done, you can satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Our only business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Whatever business you may have, it doesn't matter. Whatever talent you have got, it doesn't matter. If you can utilize that talent for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, then your life is successful. Go on.



Devotee: "Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us an authorized program for this purpose, centered around the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra."



*Prabhupāda: The general practice by everyone, whatever tendency he may have, differently. But the general platform is to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. That will pave the way for everyone. Go on.



*Devotee: "This chanting has so much power that it immediately attaches one to Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of sādhana*-bhakti. Somehow or other, one has to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa. The great saint Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, although a responsible king, fixed his mind on Kṛṣṇa, and similarly anyone who tries to fix his mind in this way will very rapidly make progress in successfully reviving his original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now this sādhana-bhakti, or practice of devotional service, can also be divided into two parts. The first part is called regulative principles. One has to follow these different regulative principles by the order of the spiritual master, or on the strength of authoritative scriptures, and there can be no question of refusal. That is called vaidhi, or regulated. One has to do it without any argument. Another part of sādhana-bhakti is called rāgānugā. Rāgānugā refers to the point at which, by following the regulative principles, one becomes a little more attached to Kṛṣṇa and executes devotional service out of natural love. For example, a person engaged in devotional service may be ordered to rise early in the morning and offer ārātrika, which is a form of Deity worship. In the beginning, by the order of his spiritual master, one rises early in the morning and offers ārātrika, but then he develops real attachment. When he gets this attachment he automatically tries to decorate the Deity and prepare different kinds of dresses and thinks of different plans to execute his devotional service nicely. Although it is within the category of practice, this offering of loving service is spontaneous.



*So the practice of devotional service, sādhana*-bhakti, can be divided into two parts-namely, regulative and spontaneous. Rūpa Gosvāmī defines the first part of devotional practice, or vaidhi-bhakti, as follows: 'When there is no attachment or no spontaneous loving service to the Lord, and one is engaged in the service of the Lord simply out of obedience to the order of the spiritual master or in pursuance of the scriptures, such obligatory service is called vaidhi-bhakti.' These principles of vaidhi-bhakti are also described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto, First Chapter, verse 35, where Śukadeva Gosvāmī instructs the dying Mahārāja Parīkṣit as to his course of action. Mahārāja Parīkṣit met Śukadeva Gosvāmī just a week before his death, and the King was perplexed as to what should be done before he was to pass on. Many other sages also arrived there, but no one could give him the proper direction. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, however, gave this direction to him as follows: 'My dear King, if you want to be fearless in meeting your death next week (for actually everyone is afraid at the point of death), then you must immediately begin the process of hearing and chanting and remembering God.' If one can chant and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa and always remember Lord Kṛṣṇa, then he is sure to become fearless at death, which may come at any moment."

*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is our prescription, that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any stop." And even death comes... Death may come at any moment, but if at the time of death, somehow or other, you can utter "Kṛṣṇa" or remember Kṛṣṇa, as soon as you utter the name of Kṛṣṇa, you remember Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, everything. So let us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra twenty*-four hours. There is no, I mean to say, impediment. Anyone... Ahaituky apratihatā. Nobody can check it. If you are determined that "I shall always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra," nobody can check. But we do not feel so much attached to the chanting. Therefore it is checked. So therefore we have fixed up a certain rounds. Just like we have given to you sixteen rounds. At least, as a regulative principle, you must chant. Then gradually we may increase and automatically chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That will be very good approach. Go on.



*Devotee: "In the statements of Śukadeva Gosvāmī it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Śukadeva recommends that one should always hear about Kṛṣṇa. He does not recommend that one hear and chant about the demigods. The Māyāvādīs (impersonalists) say that you can chant any name, either that of Kṛṣṇa or those of the demigods, and the result will be the same. But actually this is not a fact. According to the authorized version of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, one has to hear and chant about Lord Viṣṇu (Kṛṣṇa) only."



Prabhupāda: Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, it is specially mentioned. Not that as the Māyāvādīs say, that you can chant any name. No. Śāstra says, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ.



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



So, as it is recommended by the śāstras, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, we should chant this. Why other demigods' names? The Māyāvādī philosophers, they misguide us. Śāstra says, harer nāma, harer nāma, harer nāma. Three times. Only the name of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Hari.



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*There are many places. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. This is said by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one becomes liberated and transferred to the spiritual world. Kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann hy asti eka mahān guṇaḥ. In this age, there are so many faults, but there is one sublime benefit, that is this, that simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one becomes freed from this material world and is transferred to the spiritual world. Go on.



*Devotee: "So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended to Parīkṣit Mahārāja that in order to be fearless of death one has to hear and chant and remember the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, by all means. He also mentions that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Sarvātmā. Sarvātmā means the 'Supersoul of everyone.' Kṛṣṇa is also mentioned as Īśvara, the Supreme Controller, who is situated in everyone's heart. Therefore if some way or other we become attached to Kṛṣṇa, He will make us free from all danger. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that anyone who becomes a devotee of the Lord is never vanquished. Others, however, are always vanquished. Vanquished means that after getting this human form of life a person does not come out of the entanglement of birth and death and thus misses his golden opportunity. Such a person does not know where he is being thrown by the laws of nature.



*Suppose one does not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this human form of life. He will be thrown into the cycle of birth and death involving 8,400,000 species of life, and his spiritual identity will remain lost. One does not know whether he is going to be a plant or a beast or a bird or something like that, because there are so many species of life. The recommendation of Rūpa Gosvāmī for reviving our original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that somehow or other we should apply our minds to Kṛṣṇa very seriously and thus become fearless of death. After death we do not know our destination because we are completely under the control of the laws of nature. Only Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is controller over the laws of nature. Therefore if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa seriously, there will be no fear of being thrown back into the cycle of so many species of life. A sincere devotee will surely be transferred to the abode of Kṛṣṇa, as affirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā."

*Prabhupāda: We are under the control of the material nature. Everyone can realize it. Nobody can be free. But the process of freedom is also stated there: Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante [Bg. 7.14]. If anyone takes to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, surrenders there, and be engaged in His service, then these laws of nature will be slackened, or almost nil. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti*-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. These are the statements of the śāstras. Laws of material nature means karma. You act in a certain way and you get the result, good or bad; *that is called karma. Sat*-karma or asat-karma. Actually everything is asat-karma. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23]. So even taking, accepting that good work is nice, but it is also bondage. Suppose you give in charity. So the laws of nature is that if you give one by charity, you get four. So now to accept that four, you have to take birth again. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakali viṣera bandha. Karma-kāṇḍa means if you act very piously, next life you get good birth, good opulence, money, janma iśvarya-śruta, good education, beautiful body. These are the resultant actions of sat-karma. And asat-karma means you become poor, ugly, without any education, no riches, always hungry. These are the results of asat-karma. So this is called karma-kāṇḍa. And jñāna-kāṇḍa means to try to merge into the existence of the Lord, which, even if we do, but because you are under the impression of impersonalism, you again fall down. So both by the action of karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa one is not secure. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, sakali viṣera bandha. Poison, either in a golden pot or in iron pot, it is the..., the effect is the same. So bhakti is neither for karma-kāṇḍa nor for jñāna-kāṇḍa. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. That is real bhakti.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



Bhakti should not be contaminated by karma and jñāna. Bhakti should remain pure. Then the result will be very quick and nice. Go on.



*Devotee: "In the Padma Purāṇa also the same process is advised. There it is said that one should always remember Lord Viṣṇu. This is called dhyāna, or meditation*-always remembering Kṛṣṇa. It is said that one has to meditate with his mind fixed upon Viṣṇu. Padma Purāṇa recommends that one always fix his mind on the form of Viṣṇu by meditation and not forget Him at any moment. And this state of consciousness is called samādhi, or trance."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Satatam, satataṁ smartavyaḥ viṣṇuḥ. This is the injunction. One should always remember Viṣṇu, the form of Viṣṇu. That is possible only when we have enhanced a little in the path of loving Kṛṣṇa, or Viṣṇu. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. So everything is possible provided we are serious. Then everything is possible. Go on. Otherwise why Rūpa Gosvāmī has taken so much trouble in the matter of giving us Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, quoting from so many, innumerable śāstras? Sad-dharma-pravarta. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-pravartakau. The Gosvāmīs were so compassionate with the fallen human society that he, especially Rūpa Gosvāmī... All the Gosvāmīs, they first of all searched out all the datas of spiritual life and quoted them, in each and every line. Sufficiently he quoted from śāstras. This is the business of sādhu. Sādhu-śāstra-guru. They'll act in the same way. There is no difference of opinion. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya tinete kariyā aikya. One has to see a sādhu by corroborating his statements according to the śāstras or another sādhu.



Devotee: "We should always try to mold the activities of our lives in such a way that we will constantly remember Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Just like in the temple. Here, every business is in connection with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise what is the difference between this house and the next door? There, Kṛṣṇa is not there. And this, just in this door, everything is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between ordinary house and temple. Ordinary house, they're also busy in purchasing things from the market, cooking them and eating very nicely, sufficiently. But according to śāstras, they're eating all sins. Ye pacanty ātma*-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13]. Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpam. The... In a temple, same business is going on-same marketing, same cooking, same eating, everything is going on-but in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Where this relationship is there, always, Kṛṣṇa, then every house becomes a temple. That is required. We are simply setting example that how we can execute our daily affairs in connection with Kṛṣṇa. That is our propaganda. So every gṛhastha, every house, where is the difficulty? Everyone can install the Deity. All the family members can gather together, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and read śāstras, as we are doing in this temple. But the present tendency is that we have..., they have got sufficient time to smoke, they have got sufficient time for playing cards, they have sufficient time for drinking, going to the cinema, going to the sports. But they have no time for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the difficulty. As soon as you talk of them, talk to them about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll immediately say, "Sir, we have no time." And for other things, the paraphernalia of Kali-yuga, they have got enough time. They'll read newspapers, all full of rascal news. "One man has stolen, one man has kidnapped, one man has stabbed." These news, he'll very, with great interest he'll read. And as soon as we present Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, "Oh, this is not good." This is the position.



*Therefore there is a great necessity for pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the best welfare activity to the human society. All of them, they are rascals. Abodha*-jāta. In the śāstra it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta. They are being defeated by the onslaught of material nature. These rascals, they do not know. They are thinking they have become great leaders, philanthropists, nationalists, politicians, scientists, philosopher-but they're killing themselves and others. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. They do not know how to make progress. Therefore a person who has understood little value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should take this movement very seriously and distribute to the fallen souls. That is the best work. That is the best work. Go on.

*Devotee: "Whether one concentrates his mind on the four*-handed form of Viṣṇu or on the form of two-handed Kṛṣṇa, it is the same. The Padma Purāṇa recommends: somehow or other, always think of Viṣṇu without forgetting Him under any circumstances. Actually, this is the most basic of all regulative principles. For, when there is an order from a superior about doing something, there is simultaneously a prohibition. When the order is that one should always remember Kṛṣṇa, the prohibition is that one should never forget Him. Within this simple order and prohibition, all regulative principles are found complete. This regulative principle is applicable to all varṇas and āśramas, the castes and occu..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Regulative principles are meant for everyone, all varṇas and āśramas. Not that "I am now sannyāsī. I have got the highest platform. Therefore regulative principles is not meant for me. It is for the kaniṣṭha..." This is rascaldom. Yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājyam. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ. Tapasya. Following the regulative principles means tapasya. So "I have renounced the world. Renounced. I have become a sannyāsī, renounced the world..." That doesn't mean I have renounced all these things, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. No. These things are not to be renounced. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyajyam. They are not to be renounced. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you are, have become a great saintly person, still you should consider, continue yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. This is the injunction of the śāstra. It should not be given up at any stage. Pāvanāni manīṣiṇām.



All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721113ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 13, 1972



Pradyumna: "Practice means employing our senses in some particular type of work. Therefore devotional service in practice means utilizing our different sensory organs in service to Kṛṣṇa. Some of the senses are meant for acquiring knowledge, and some are meant for executing the conclusions of our thinking, feeling and willing. So practice means employing both the mind and the senses in practical devotional service. This practice is not for developing something artificial. For example, a child learns or practices to walk. This walking is not unnatural. The walking capacity is there originally in the child, and simply by a little practice, he walks very nicely. Similarly, devotional service to the Supreme Lord is the natural instinct of every living entity. Even the uncivilized men like the aborigines offer their respectful obeisances to something wonderful exhibited by nature's law, and they appreciate that behind some wonderful exhibition or action there is something supreme. So this consciousness, though lying dormant in those who are materially contaminated, is found in every living entity. And, when purified, this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: So even in the minds of the jungle people, there is obedience to the Supreme. As soon as there is some thunderbolt strike, so they offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. Offering obeisances to the great, that is natural. That is the gradual appreciation of the potency or energy of the Supreme Lord. Because whatever we see, whatever there is, they're nothing but different manifestations of the energy of the Supreme Lord. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. We can appreciate the potencies, the energies of the Supreme Lord, anywhere. As I explained yesterday, the potency is there in the seed. As Kṛṣṇa says, bījo 'haṁ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10]. A big banyan tree is concentrated within a small seed, smaller than the mustard seed. There is the potency of a very big tree.



*There is a story, it is very instructive story, that Nārada Muni was passing to go to Vaikuṇṭha, and on the way one very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, met him, and he inquired from Narada Muni where he was going. Nārada Muni said that "I am going to see Nārāyaṇa, my Lord." So the brāhmaṇa asked him, "Oh, you are going to meet Nārāyaṇa. Will you kindly inquire for me when my..., when I shall be liberated." Nārada Muni said, "Yes, I shall inquire." Similarly, on the way, he met one cobbler. He also inquired Nārada Muni where he was going, and he said, will you kindly inquire from Lord Nārāyaṇa when he would be liberated? So when Nārada Muni met Nārāyaṇa, so he inquired*-because he's saintly person; *he promised*-that "Such and such brāhmaṇa inquired like this, and the, and a cobbler also inquired like this." So Nārāyaṇa said, "The, this cobbler will be liberated in this life, and that brāhmaṇa will take some time, some many births."

So Nārada Muni became astonished that he, he was a learned scholar and brāhmaṇa, and he would take so much time, and the cobbler would be liberated in this life. "Oh, what is the reason, Sir?" So Nārāyaṇa gave him one needle, and He requested him that "When they inquire what Nārāyaṇa was doing, you can say that Nārāyaṇa was pulling one elephant through the hole of the needle, this side and that side," in this way. So when he came back, the brāhmaṇa said, "Sir, you are... I offer my respectful obeisances unto you and Nārāyaṇa. We cannot believe this, that through the needle or through the hole of a needle, a elephant is being passed, this side and that side." And when it was informed to the cobbler, he began to cry. He said, "Oh, my Nārāyaṇa is so powerful that He can do everything." He believed immediately that "Yes, for Nārāyaṇa it is possible to pull the elephant through the hole of the needle, this side and that." So Nārada Muni inquired, "How do you believe this? The other person, the brāhmaṇa, he's learned person. He did not believe. How do you believe it? What is your conviction?" He said, "Sir, I believe in this way, because I am sitting under this tree. This is a banyan tree. And so many," what is called, "figs are falling down. And each fig there are thousands of small seeds, and in each seed there is a banyan tree. So if Nārāyaṇa can keep thousands of banyan trees within this fig fruit, how it is not possible for Him to pull an elephant through the hole of a needle?"

*So this is called faith. The faith is not blind. There is proof. He, the cobbler was not blindly believing that Nārāyaṇa was pulling an elephant through the hole of an needle, but he sees practically the potency, the power of the Lord, bījo 'haṁ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10], how He keeps all the potencies of the banyan tree within the seed. So otherwise there is no meaning, "all-powerful." He can do whatever He likes. Inconceivable. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī therefore explains that unless we believe (in the) inconceivable potency of the Lord, then we cannot understand that activities... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, svābhāvikī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. We cannot judge how things are happening, but we have to believe. Therefore Vedic knowledge is so important. We cannot make research. We cannot judge. Simply if we take the Vedic truths... Just like we have several times explained, the Vedas accept the cow dung pure, whereas the stool of other animal is impure. So we have to accept like that. So Veda-vāṇī. Veda-vāṇī means you cannot deny it. You cannot argue on it. You have to accept as it is. Therefore learned scholar, when he speaks something, he gives evidence from the Vedas, śruti, śruti-pramāṇa. That is the best evidence. Go on.

Pradyumna: "There are certain prescribed methods for employing our senses and mind in such a way that our dormant consciousness for loving Kṛṣṇa will be invoked, as much as the child, with a little practice, can begin to walk."



*Prabhupāda: The Gosvāmīs, or in the Pañcarātra system, in the śāstras, the regulative principles are so made that, if we practice it, gradually our dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be awakened. Therefore these prescribed rules and regulations, as it is given in the śāstras and confirmed by the ācāryas... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi. We have to follow the footprints of the ācāryas. Ācārya means paramparā. One ācārya is following the previous ācārya. An ācārya does not manufacture anything, something novel. He follows the previous ācārya. And therefore he, he's ācārya. And one who follows... Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Ācārya upāsanam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. So we have to accept the principles laid down by the ācāryas. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa.



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhaba śrī*-yugala-pīriti



*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. These are, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's versions are accepted as Vedic versions, śruti*-pramāṇa. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that the statements of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura are as good as Vedic evidences. Therefore we quote from Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura often. Not, not only Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura-Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī and the six Gosvāmīs, they are authorities. So we have no difficulty. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa. That's all. Let us follow the footprints of the ācāryas, Gosvāmīs, and live together as sincere, serious devotees. Then our life is successful. It is not very difficult. Bhakta-sane vāsa. Tāṅdera caraṇe. We should live together as devotee and follow the footprints of the ācāryas. Don't manufacture concoction. Then it will be spoiled. Simply try to follow. They'll protect. They'll give protection. Because Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. So if we take shelter of the ācāryas, that means we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If the ācārya, guru, is satisfied, then we must know certainly that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt [SB 11.17.27]. So this is the principle, and the ācāryas give us direction. It is not very difficult. Simply we have to be, become very serious and sincere. Then everything is all right. Go on.



Pradyumna: "One who has no basic walking capacity cannot walk by practice. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be aroused simply by practice."



*Prabhupāda: Artificially practiced, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible. There is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya. It is not by the practice, but following certain methods... Just like sex impulse is there already in everyone's heart. When there is opportunity, it becomes awakened. It is not that artificially a dull stone can be awakened in sex impulse. No. In a human being, or animal, a living being, there is sex impulse, but it becomes awakened in favorable circumstances. Similarly, if we keep ourself in favorable circumstances, that means bhakta-sane vāsa, living with pure devotees, without any material desires, then the Vṛndāvana... Living in Vṛndāvana*-what is the meaning of living...? Because bhakta-sane vāsa. Here, whatever comes, he comes for the purpose of developing devotional attitude. Not for any... Here nobody comes for making business or making money. If anyone comes, he makes offense, dhāma-aparādha. Dhāma-aparādha. It is called... There are many kinds of dhāma-aparādha, nāma-aparādhas, sevā-aparādha. There are aparādhas, offenses. That will be described in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So here, in Vṛndāvana-dhāma, nobody should make any business. Nobody should try to satisfy his senses in Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Then his living in Vṛndāvana-dhāma will be profitable. Of course, anyone living in Vṛndāvana-dhāma, he is fortunate because the dhāma itself has its own power. But ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Similarly, if we live in the dhāma in ānukūla way, favorable way, then our achievement of ultimate success is very easy. If we commit offenses, it will be delayed. But still, anyone, some way or other, who is living in Vṛndāvana, sticking to the dust of Vṛndāvana, he is certainly benefited. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Actually, there is no such practice. When we wish to develop our innate capacity for devotional service there are certain processes which, by our accepting and executing them, will cause that dormant capacity to be invoked. Such practice is called sādhana*-bhakti."



*Prabhupāda: Hmm. The practice, following the rules and regulations of śāstra and ācārya, direction of the spiritual master, that is called sādhana*-bhakti. That, every, anyone can do, provided he's serious. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga atha bhajana-kriyā [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. This bhajana-kriyā means sādhana-bhakti. So if our bhajana-kriyā is proper and in the line, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, then all the anarthas, unwanted things, bad habits, that will be immediately vanquished. After anartha-nivṛttiḥ, tato niṣṭhā tato ruci athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ. If this way, we shall increase our attitude of devotional service, ultimately getting shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord.



*Pradyumna: "Every living entity under the spell of material energy is held to be in an abnormal condition of madness. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, 'Generally, the conditioned soul is mad because he is always engaged in activities which are the causes of bondage and suffering.' Spirit soul in its original condition is joyful, blissful, eternal and full of knowledge."



Prabhupāda: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. These materialistic persons, they are mad. Mad.



*piśācī pāile jana mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya



*We, those who are materialistic persons, we are mad after sense gratification. Exactly like a person who is ghostly haunted, he speaks all sorts of nonsense, similarly, in our material condition we speak simply all nonsense. Unless we engage our tongue in the talking of kṛṣṇa*-kathā... Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇanuvarṇane. Unless we engage our tongue in describing about the glories of Vaikuṇṭha-Vaikuṇṭha means the Supreme Personality of Godhead-then we shall be talking politics and other nonsense, and waste our time. Just like the frog. The frog is crowing. That means jihvāsatī dārdurikeva. In the Bhāgavata it is said that we have got tongue, but if we don't use the tongue for Kṛṣṇa-sevā... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. Our devotional service begins from the tongue. People will be... "How service begins from the tongue?" Yes. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayaṁ sphuraty adhaḥ. So the tongue is very good instrument for developing devotional service. If we don't use this tongue in devotional service, then it is compared with the tongue of the frog. Jihvā dārdurikeva. Why? Why? "My tongue is so nice. Why it is compared with the tongue of a frog?" Now, because the frog, crowing, (imitates frog sound:) "caw a kronh, caw ka kronh," that means inviting the snake. The snake cannot see where is the frog, but by hearing the sound, crowing sound, the snake can understand, "Here is my food." So his crowing sound will be stopped as soon it is swallowed up by the snake. Similarly, we have got this tongue, human body. It is not the cat's tongue or dog's tongue or tiger's tongue or hog's tongue. It is the human being tongue. So this should be engaged for Kṛṣṇa's service by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare... This is... The tongue is being used. And tasting Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. If we simply, if you do not read any śāstra, if you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the tongue is... And simply we do not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. If we take this vow, that "My tongue should be used only for Kṛṣṇa..., by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... And chanting, chanting, when I become hungry, I take some little prasādam..."



*Actually, that was the original process of paramahaṁsas, Gosvāmīs. They used to... Kṛṣṇa*-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Their tongue was always used for Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana.

*kṛṣṇa*-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priya-priyakarau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*So the Gosvāmīs used to spend their time by using... Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa... Nāmācārya Śrīla Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was using his tongue: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. That's all. Very simple thing. But it is difficult also. So gradually... We should not imitate, but follow the footprints of great saintly persons, ācāryas. Then gradually, we shall be practiced. Tādera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa. This society, Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, is made just to create some devotees so that people, by the association of the devotees and following the footprints of the Gosvāmīs, they'll be automatically elevated to the transcendental platform. This is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. It is not a joint mess, that "You bring something, I bring something, and let us cook together, and eat and sleep." It is not that society. We should always be engaged. Always we shall use our tongue.



*So tāṅdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta... It is very important passage given by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sevi... Our business should be how to execute the orders of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Gosvāmīs, the Ṣaḍ-Gosvāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe more nāma



He wanted that human beings, those who have taken birth as a human being in India, they should take the cause, the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and spread all over the world. Janma sārthaka kari' karo paropakāra. The India is made for doing good to others. India is not meant for exploiting others. That is not India's mission. From the very beginning, from long, long distant place, people used to come here to learn spiritual advancement of life. It is said that Lord Jesus Christ also came here, and he lived here for twelve years. Similarly, many Chinese scholars and transcendentalists used to come. So India is a land of knowledge and culture, especially spiritual knowledge, since very, very long time. So especially those who are born in India, they should take advantage of the privilege. Unfortunately, they are criticizing the foreigners, those who have taken it. They're suspecting. It is very, very regrettable fact. But anyway, that is the way, that is the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that those who are intelligent persons, intelligent Indians, they should take advantage of the gifts of the great sages and saintly persons, make their life successful and preach the cult all over the world. That is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for that purpose. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Only by his implication in material activities has he become miserable, temporary and full of ignorance. This is due to vikarma. Vikarma means actions which should not be done. Therefore we must practice sādhana*-bhakti, which means to offer maṅgala-ārātrika (Deity worship) in the morning, to refrain from certain material activities, to offer obeisances to the spiritual master and to follow many other rules and regulations which will be discussed here one after another. These practices will help one to become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the directions of a psychiatrist, so this sādhana-bhakti cures the conditioned soul of his madness under the spell of māyā, material illusion."



*Prabhupāda: So, as they are mentioned, the first principle is that every devotee must try to rise early in the morning. That is first business. This practice should be done first. No one should sleep more than six hours. Or, if you want to, sleep more... But you must rise in early in the morning. At four o'clock, attend the ārātrika, maṅgala-ārātrika. Maṅgala-ārātrika means auspicious beginning of your day. If you stand before maṅgala-ārātrika... In Vṛndāvana you see now, every temple, as soon as there is four o'clock, the ding*-dong bell immediately begins. People can rise early in the morning, take bath in the Yamunā and visit the Deities in the temple. There is no necessity of passing M.A. examination, taking B.A. degree for devotional service. Simply you have to follow the regulative principles. Then automatically you'll become spiritualized. Very simple method. Vṛndāvana is specially meant for that purpose. Why people come to Vṛndāvana? To take the advantage. Here the atmosphere is surcharged with devotional service. We should take advantage of it. This is called sādhana-bhakti. Sādhana. Sādhana-bhakti means we have to practice it. And it does not require much education. It does not depend on your riches, that you have to become a very rich man to follow the regulative principles, rise early in the morning. Anyone can rise ea... It is simply a practice. You can take bath in the Yamunā. It is simply practice. You can visit the temples early in the morning. It is simply practice. So this is called sādhana-bhakti, practicing. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Nārada Muni mentions this sādhana*-bhakti in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, First Chapter, 30th verse. He says there to King Yudhiṣṭhira: 'My dear King, one has to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa by any means.' That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. The practice means somehow or other, you fix up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, as Mahārāja Ambarīṣa did. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. Practice in such a way that you'll be able to think of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, without any stop. That is the first-class yoga. Immediately you become a first-class yogi. You don't have to practice the meditation, samādhi, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, praṇāyāma, this aṣṭāṅga-yoga. Without practicing aṣṭāṅga-yoga, you simply practice the one simple thing, simply thinking of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa always; *then you become a first*-class yogi. It is not our statement. Kṛṣṇa's statement.



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He's first*-class yogi. Who? "Who is always thinking of Me within his heart." Śraddhāvān. "With faith and love, he's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa." He's first-class yogi. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that, if we take it seriously, then immediately, on the first stage, we become a first-class yogi. Immediately, without any bodily endeavor, mystic exercise. No need. In the Kali-yuga it is not possible. The yoga practice, in your Western countries, it is very popular; *but that is a farce. Yoga practice is very difficult, especially in this age. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. Yoga practice was being done in the Satya*-yuga. People were very strong; *they used to live for many, many years. They could practice yoga. Here we do not know when we shall die. There is no, I mean to say, fixed*-up time. At any moment, we can die. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. We are simply in the midst of dangerous condition. At any moment. Just like when you were coming from that Mr. Choudhuri's house, immediately there would have been a motor accident in this Vṛndāvana. Immediately. So padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. Here, especially in this Kali-yuga, the time is very bad. At any moment there can be any turmoil and we can die at any moment. Therefore, the recommendation is:



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. If you..., I die chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is a great opportunity. So this practice, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31], this is the only sādhana. Sādhana*-bhakti. Chant always Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, fix up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and it will be very easily possible to make your life perfect. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "It is the duty of the ācārya, the spiritual master, to find the ways and means for his disciple to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of sādhana*-bhakti."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The ācārya or the spiritual master's duty is to give direction to the disciples how he can fix up his mind always on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. He should... He knows how to engage a particular devotee in a particular type of service. Sva*-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. The... We are, everyone has got some particular talent. So it is the duty of the spiritual master to engage his disciple's talent in the service of the Lord so that constantly he can think of the Lord. This is spiritual master's duty. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us an authorized program for this purpose, centered around the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This chanting has so much power that it immediately attaches one to Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of sādhana*-bhakti. Somehow or other, one has to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa. The great saint Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, although a responsible king, fixed his mind on Kṛṣṇa, and similarly, anyone who tries to fix his mind in this way will very rapidly make progress in successfully reviving his original Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Prabhupāda: Because fix up mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa is yoga. Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Who is yogi? Dhyānāvasthita, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā... Tad-gatena manasā, absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa. This is yoga system. Some way or other, if you fix up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection of yoga. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ [Bg. 6.47]. That is the verdict of all śāstras. So by fixing up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, immediately you become first-class yogi. There is no doubt about it. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Now this sādhana*-bhakti, or practice of devotional service, can also be divided into two parts. The first part is called regulative principles. One has to follow these different regulative principles by the order of the spiritual master or on the strength of authoritative scriptures."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The regulative principles means that you don't manufacture anything. Regulative principle means authorized*-as they are mentioned in the authorized scriptures and as it is confirmed by the spiritual master. Because we do not know. When it is confirmed by the spiritual master, yes, it is right. Sādhu guru, sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. The same statement of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Sādhu, principles which are followed, sādhu-mārga-anugamanam. We cannot follow asādhu-mārga. We must follow sādhu-mārga. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We cannot follow an upstart, manufacturing some song, manufacturing some ideas. We cannot follow that. What is authorized song, we shall sing. What is authorized method, we shall follow. Sādhu-guru-śāstra-vākya. Sādhu and guru means on the basis of śāstra. And śāstra means the statements of sādhu and guru. Therefore sādhu and guru and śāstra, they are identical. So they must be corroborated. If somebody's sādhu is speaking against śāstra, then he's not sādhu. If somebody's guru, if he's going against śāstra, then he's not guru. And śāstra means the original guru and sādhu. What do you mean by śāstra? Just like in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means we are studying the character of original sādhu and guru. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Prahlāda-caritra, Dhruva-caritra, Ambarīṣa-caritra, the Pāṇḍavas, Bhīṣma. So Bhāgavata means the glories of Bhagavān and bhaga, devotees. That's all. This is Bhāgavatam. So sādhu-guru-śāstra-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya.



*So this is sādhana*-bhakti. We must take instruction from the spiritual master. Ādau gurvāśrayam, sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. Who requires a spiritual master? One who is inquisitive of sad-dharma, not asad-dharma. Sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. A man requires a spiritual master when he's inquisitive to know about the transcendental subject matter. A spiritual, a spiritual master... To accept a spiritual master is not a fashion. Just like we keep a dog, pet, similarly, if we keep a spiritual master, pet spiritual master, to get sanction of all my sinful activities, that is not accepting spiritual master. Spiritual master means tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. You should accept a spiritual master where you think that you can surrender yourself fully, and offer his, your service. That is spiritual master. Sādhu-mārga-anugamanam. Sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. So spiritual master is required for a person who is interested in the transcendental subject matter. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tad-vijñāna, that vijñāna, the science of spiritual life. One who is interested in the science of spiritual life, not that to keep a spiritual master as a fashion. No. One must be serious. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. First of all, one must know in which subject matter he's inquisitive, in material things, or in spiritual matters. If he's actually interested in spiritual matter, then he should search out a proper, bona fide spiritual master. Gurum eva abhigacchet. Must find out. It is not option. It must. Must, you cannot avoid it. Without bona fide spiritual master, you cannot go a step forward. Go on.

Pradyumna: "...and there can be no question of refusal. That is called vaidhi, or regulated. One has to do it without any argument. Another..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot argue with the spiritual master. First of all, you have to select a spiritual master where you can completely surrender. And as soon... Just like Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. When he saw that "The questions which have arisen in my mind, it cannot be solved by ordinary person," therefore he selected. He told Him that "I can understand, without Your Lordship, nobody can mitigate all the doubts in my mind." Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi mām [Bg. 2.7]. Therefore original spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is original spiritual master. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. Kṛṣṇa first instructed Brahma, Ādi-kavi. From Brahma, we have got these Vedas, Vedic knowledge. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is the original spiritual master. Aham evāsam agre. Before creation, Kṛṣṇa was there. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Kṛṣṇa is the origin of all the devas. Devas means Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, then all other demigods. So, in this way, Kṛṣṇa is the original spiritual master. Just like He's the spiritual master of Arjuna. So study of Bhagavad-gītā means if you follow the footprints of Arjuna, then you are also as good as Arjuna. Not as good; I mean to say, that your knowledge is perfect. Perfect in this sense: that Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as Paraṁ Brahma; you accept Kṛṣṇa as Paraṁ Brahma; *then your study of Bhagavad*-gītā is perfect. And if you make your so-called erudite scholarship, commentary, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa," then you are spoiled. Your life is spoiled, your study is spoiled. Sādhu-mārga-anugamanam.



*So if you want to study Bhagavad*-gītā, you follow what Arjuna says. Where is the difficulty? What Arjuna has said about Kṛṣṇa, that is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, śāṣvataṁ puruṣam ādi [Bg. 10.12]. You accept Kṛṣṇa. Why do you try to make minus Kṛṣṇa Bhagavad-gītā? This is rascaldom. That is not study of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Study Bhagavad-gītā as it is; *then you'll be benefited. And actually we are seeing that. We are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as it is all over the world, and it is becoming successful. Not adulteration. That is spoiling. Adulteration means... The example is given..., it was given by my Guru Mahārāja that there is a cup of sweet rice, and you mix with some grains of sand. Then it is, whole thing is spoiled. You cannot comment on Bhagavad-gītā according to your whims. Kṛṣṇa did not leave Bhagavad-gītā to be understood by your commentation. Try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You'll be benefited. That is sādhu-mārga-anugamanam.

Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



721114ND.VRN

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Vṛndāvana, November 14, 1972



*Pradyumna: (reading:) "Another part of sādhana*-bhakti is called rāgānugā. Rāgānugā refers to the point at which, by following the regulative principles, one becomes a little more attached to Kṛṣṇa and executes devotional service out of natural love. For example, a person engaged in devotional service may be ordered to rise early in the morning and offer ārātrika, which is a form of Deity worship. In the beginning, by the order of the spiritual master, one rises early in the morning and offers ārātrika, but then he develops real attachment. When he gets this attachment, he automatically tries to decorate the Deity and prepare different kinds of dresses and thinks of different plans to execute his devotional service nicely. Although it is within the category of practice, this off..."



Prabhupāda: (Hindi)



*Pradyumna: "Although it is within the category of practice, this offering of loving service is spontaneous. So the practice of devotion, the practice of devotional service, sādhana*-bhakti, can be divided into two parts-namely, regulative and spontaneous."



Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Rūpa Gosvāmī defines the first part of devotional service, or vaidhi*-bhakti, as follows: 'When there is no attachment or no spontaneous loving service to the Lord, and one is engaged in the service of the Lord simply out of obedience to the order of the spiritual master or in pursuance of the scriptures, such obligatory service is called vaidhi-bhakti.' These principles of vaidhi-bhakti..."



*Prabhupāda: Neither attachment nor detachment. That is the primary stage. One has no very much attachment in the material affairs, but at the same time, he has no strong detach..., attachment for devotional service. This marginal state is called, what is that? Vaidhi*-bhakti. Means he is offering devotional service under the instruction of the spiritual master as a professional. He has not developed the spontaneous love of God, Kṛṣṇa, but he is obliged to serve under the instruction of the spiritual master. And that is the first stage of vaidhi-bhakti. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "The principles of vaidhi*-bhakti are also described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto, First Chapter, verse 35, where Śukadeva Gosvāmī instructs the dying Mahārāja Parīkṣit as to his course of action. Mahārāja Parīkṣit met Śukadeva Gosvāmī just a week before his death, and the King was perplexed as to what should be done before he was to pass on. Many other sages also arrived there, but no one could give him the proper direction. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, however, gave this direction to him as follows: 'My dear King, if you want to be fearless in meeting your death next week (for actually everyone is afraid at the point of death), then you must immediately begin the process of hearing and chanting and remembering God.' If one can chant and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa and always remember Lord Kṛṣṇa, then he is sure to become fearless of death, which may come at any moment."



*Prabhupāda: Ante nārāyaṇa*-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. That is the success of life. Somehow or other, if one can remember Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, that is success of life. The... In Bengal there is a proverb: bhajana kara, pūjāna kara, mate janle haya. Your devotional service will be tested at the time of death. Because yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaram loke tyajaty ante kalevaram. At the time of death, if we can remember Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ, that is all success. The practice of devotional service means so that we may be so accustomed to chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra that at the time of death we may remember it. Otherwise... Not like parrot. The parrot also imitates chanting. But when the cat catches, he does not say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." He says (imitates parrot sound), "kanh, kanh." So not that kind of... We should be accustomed to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa that whenever the death point is there, he would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then that is success. So practice means to remember. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]. If we practice always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, naturally, at the time of danger, we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go on.



Pradyumna: "In the statements of Śukadeva Gosvāmī it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Śukadeva recommends that one should always hear about Kṛṣṇa. He does not recommend that one hear and chant about the demigods. The Māyāvādīs, or impersonalists, say that you can chant any name, either that of Kṛṣṇa or those of the demigods, and the result will be the same."



Prabhupāda: Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommended,



tasmād bhārata sarvātmā

bhagavān harir īśvaraḥ

śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca

smārtavyaś ca nityaśaḥ

[SB 2.1.5]



He recommended this, that tasmād bhārata sarvātmā bhagavān harir īśvaraḥ. Sarvātmā. The Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart; therefore He's known as sarvātmā. So sarvātmā is Bhagavān, the Personality, Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, who takes away all our miserable conditions. Hari. And Īśvara, controller. Tasmād bhārata sarvātmā bhagavān harir īśvaraḥ. So He's to be always remembered. Satato smārtavyo viṣṇuḥ. Always we have to remember Viṣṇu. Nityada, always. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*Kīrtanīyaḥ, to chant the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are so many impediments. You are experiencing that our only business is to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, but there are so many enemies also. There are many friends*-we have got more friends than enemies; still, there are so many enemies also, criticizing. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu predicted that this criticism would be there. Even when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was preaching this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra very loudly. Some brāhmaṇas from Navadvīpa, they lodged complaint to the magistrate, Kazi, that "This Nimāi Paṇḍita has discovered a new type of religion, chanting loudly Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the period of, sleeping period of Nārāyaṇa, and He's chanting so loudly. So Nārāyaṇa will be disturbed and there will be so much catastrophe. So kindly stop this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa loudly." And Kazi, he took steps. He first of all warned the disciples of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to stop chanting. But when Caitanya Mahāprabhu disregarded the order, then the, some constables came and broke the mṛdaṅgas. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu started the civil disobedience movement. About one lakh of people, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, reached the house of Kazi, and there was some compromise.



So there is always impediments in this process. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the atheist class of men, they cannot tolerate. In... Nowadays also, we are being harassed. In Australia, the Melbourne city authorities, they brought a civil suit against us not to chant on the street. And our men were being taken to the police custody. So this harassment was going on, and our men asked my permission, "What to do? The lawyers want two thousand dollars for defending." So I advised them that "Why you should defend? Better go to jail and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa there." That's all. So they followed this instruction. Later on, the Archbishop of Melbourne city, he advised the authorities, "Don't harass these men. They are actually devotees of God." So now there is no disturbance. So similar disturbance is to happen to everywhere. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave us instruction that you should be tolerant. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Because there will be so much impediments. Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. We must chant, we must always do our business, despite all objection, obstacles. That is our business. Go on.

*Pradyumna: "The Māyāvādīs, or impersonalists, say that you can chant any name, either that of Kṛṣṇa or those of the demigods, and the result will be the same. But actually this is not a fact. According to the authorized version of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, one has to hear and chant about Lord Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: "...only."



*Prabhupāda: Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. There are other demigods. It is not recommended śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam of the name of other demigods. And to compare or to equalize the Supreme Personality of Godhead with other demigods, that is pāṣaṇḍī*-matam, means atheistic opinion.



yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahma*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvenaiva vīkṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



*This is a quotation from Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, from Śāśvata Purāṇa. So we should not compare the Supreme Personality of Godhead Nārāyaṇa equal to any other demigod. That is offense. That is also nāma-aparādha. But the Māyāvādīs, they do that. Therefore, they do not derive any benefit. The Māyāvādīs also chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, but-just to attract people-but actually they think that the name of any other demigod and the name of Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, all the same. That is nāma-aparādha. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended to Parīkṣit Mahārāja that in order to be fearless of death, one has to hear and chant and remember the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, by all means. He also mentions that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is sarvātmā. Sarvātmā means the Supersoul of everyone. Kṛṣṇa is also mentioned as Īśvara, the supreme controller who is situated in everyone's heart. Therefore, if some way or other we become attached to Kṛṣṇa, he will make us free from all danger. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that anyone who becomes a devotee of the Lord is never vanquished. Others, however, are always vanquished. Vanquished means that after getting this human form of life, a person does not come out of the entanglement of birth and death and thus misses his golden opportunity. Such a person does not know where he is being thrown by the laws of nature."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a great problem. People do not know. People in general, they do not know what is after death. There are so many things after death, but there is no education. Therefore they are in darkness. So this human form of life is misused in darkness. If anyone does not know the value of life, then it is misused. In the śāstra it is called ātma*-hā, committing suicide. The same quotation from Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura:



hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā

jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu



Committing suicide. If we do not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even getting this valuable human form of life, then certainly we are committing suicide. We are drinking poison knowingly. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "Suppose one does not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this human form of life. He will be thrown into the cycle of birth and death involving 8,400,000 species of life, and his spiritual identity will remain lost. One does not know whether he is going to be a plant or a beast or a bird or something like that, because there are so many species of life. The recommendation of Rūpa Gosvāmī for reviving our original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that somehow or other we should apply our minds to Kṛṣṇa very seriously, and thus also become fearless of death. After death, we do not know our destination, because we are completely under the control of the laws of nature. Only Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is controller over the laws of nature. Therefore, if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa seriously, there will be no fear of being thrown back into the cycle of so many species of life. A sincere devotee will surely be transferred to the abode of Kṛṣṇa, as affirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā."



*Prabhupāda: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. These statements are there. If we actually take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then māyā, the laws of nature, will not act. And... Otherwise, we shall be put into the cycle of birth and death. So the best utilization of this human life is to elevate oneself to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa, in truth, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], then we'll not have to accept any more this material body, which is full of miserable conditions. Then we go back to home, back to Godhead. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "In the Padma Purāṇa also the same process is advised. There it is said that one should always remember Lord Viṣṇu. This is called dhyāna, or meditation*-always remembering Kṛṣṇa. It is said that one has to meditate with his mind fixed upon Viṣṇu. Padma Purāṇa recommends that one always fix his mind on the form of Viṣṇu by meditation and not forget Him at any moment. And this stage of consciousness is called samādhi, or trance."



*Prabhupāda: Yogic mystic meditation means to concentrate the mind upon Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Dhyānāvasthita tad*-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yogi, those who are real yogis, they always observe the Viṣṇu form within the heart. That is the process of meditation and samādhi. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "We should always try to mold the activities of our lives in such a way that we will constantly remember Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether one concentrates his mind on the four*-handed form of Viṣṇu or on the form of two-handed Kṛṣṇa, it is the same. The Padma Purāṇa recommends somehow or other always thinking of Viṣṇu, without forgetting Him, under any circumstances. Actually, this is the most basic of all regulative principles. For, when there is an order from a superior about doing something, there is simultaneously a prohibition. When the order is that one should always remember Kṛṣṇa, the prohibition is that one should never forget Him. Within this simple order and prohibition all regulative principles are found complete."



*Prabhupāda: Smartavyaḥ satato viṣṇuḥ vismartavyaṁ na jātucit. This is, this is the principle of Kṛṣṇa conscious life. We should always remember Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, and we shall never forget Him. We shall mold our life in such a way... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, International Society, on this process, they are acting. They're publishing, they're going to saṅkīrtana party on the street*-even they are arrested, they cannot forget Kṛṣṇa. Even they are put into the jail, there also, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa or remembering Kṛṣṇa, that "For pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have come to jail." And they are chanting; they're free to chant. So ahaituky apratihatā: Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked in any condition of life, provided we are serious. It is so nice. Any condition, any circumstances, without any check, we can remember Kṛṣṇa. Satato smartavyaḥ, smartavyo viṣṇuḥ. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. These are the instructions. Go on.



Pradyumna: "This regulative principle is applicable to all varṇas and āśramas..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not that Viṣṇu has to be remembered only by the brāhmaṇas. No. Anyone*-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or lower than the śūdras, any pāpa-yoni. Kṛṣṇa recommends, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33]. Even pāpa-yoni, it doesn't matter. Any material condition cannot check Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anyone can take bath in the Yamunā. It is open for everyone. There is no prohibition that those who are low-born, they cannot take bath in the Yamunā or Ganges. Similarly, for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra there is no barrier. Everyone can chant. Everyone can take advantage and thus become purified of the material contamination. Go on.



Pradyumna: "There are four varṇas, namely, the brāhmaṇas, the priest and intellectuals; the kṣatriyas, warrior and statesmen; the vaiśyas, businessmen and farmers; and the śūdras, laborers and servants. There are also four standard āśramas, namely, brahmacarya, or student life; gṛhastha, householder; vānaprastha, retired; and sannyāsa, renounced. The regulative principles are not only for the brahmacārīs, or celibate students, to follow, but are applicable for all. It doesn't matter whether one is a beginner, a brahmacārī, or if one is very advanced, a sannyāsī. The principle of remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly and not forgetting Him at any moment is meant to be followed by everyone without fail. If this injunction if followed, then all other rules and regulations will automatically fall into line. All other rules and regulations should be treated as assistants or servants to this one basic principle."



*Prabhupāda: This has been practically proved in the Western countries. These boys and girls, European and Americans, they were not informed about the regulative principles in the beginning. We enforce the regulative principle when a student is serious to become initiated. Otherwise, ordinarily, in all our centers, everyone is welcome and join the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Gradually, by mixing with the devotees, by being purified on the transcendental vibration of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they voluntarily offer to become serious student, initiated. In this way, we have expanded. Practically the basic principle is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and giving them some chance to hear about Kṛṣṇa from the Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. This is our principle. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "The injunctions of rules and regulations and the resultant reactions are mentioned in the Eleventh Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Chapter, first and second verses. Camasa Muni, one of the nine sages who came to instruct King Nimi, addressed the King and said, 'The four social orders, namely, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras, have come out of the different parts of the universal form of the Supreme Lord as follows: the brāhmaṇas have come out from the head; the kṣatriyas have come out from the arms; the vaiśyas have come out from the waist; and the śūdras have come out from the legs. Similarly, the sannyāsīs have come out from the head; the vānaprasthas from the arms; the gṛhasthas from the waist; *and the brahmacārīs from the legs.' These different orders of society and grades of spiritual advancement are conceived in terms of qualification. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā that the four social orders and the four spiritual orders are created by the Lord Himself, in terms of different individual qualities. As the different parts of the body have different types of activities, so the social and spiritual orders also have different types of activities in terms of qualification and position. The target of these activities, however, is always the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, 'He is the supreme enjoyer.' So whether one is a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra, he has to satisfy the Supreme Lord by his activities."



Prabhupāda: Yes. The brāhmaṇa is considered to be the mouth of the total body, and the śūdras are considered to be the legs. So by comparative position, the head is more important than the leg, but they are equally important in terms of the whole body. Because the head cannot walk. For walking, you require the cooperation of the legs. So, as to maintain this body we require the cooperation of the head, arms, waist and legs, similarly, for serving Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, the whole, it doesn't matter whether one is a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra; *everyone can be engaged. Sva*-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. One has to worship the Supreme by his own work. The leg has to work in his own way, the head has to work in its own way. But the aim should be to survive, to maintain this body. That is the process. If the aim is one-Kṛṣṇa-then it doesn't matter whether one is brāhmaṇa or one is śūdra. Equally they are serving and they are sharing the equal profit out of it. Go on.



*Pradyumna: "This is also confirmed in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam by a verse which reads, 'Everyone must be engaged in his particular duty, but the perfection of such work should be tested by how far the Lord is satisfied with such activities.' "



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśrama, that division is always there. But it does not matter, division. It... Of course, comparatively, the head is important than the leg. But if everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord, then everyone becomes perfect. It doesn't matter whether he's śūdra or brāhmaṇa. It doesn't matter. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. Or svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. That is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Go on.



Pradyumna: "The injunction herein is that one is to act according to his position, and by such activities one must either satisfy the Supreme Personality or else fall down from his position."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The position may be... That is also recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Sthāne sthitāḥ means position. You keep your position as brāhmaṇa, you keep your position as kṣatriya, or you keep your position as śūdra or vaiśya or brahmacārī. It doesn't matter. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Simply hear about the glories. Just like we are sitting here. There are brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśya, or śūdra. It doesn't matter. Everyone has got the privilege to hear about the glories of the Lord. And if we take up this business, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, prāyaśo 'jito 'pi jito asi tais tri-lokyām. Kṛṣṇa is known as Ajita, but... Ajita means who cannot be conquered. So He can be conquered by this process. When Rāmānanda Raya quoted this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirmed it. Ya ihā haya: "It is very nice." So in this age, by the recommendation of śāstra, and confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we should give chance to the people for hearing about the glories of the Lord. That is the program of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We go everywhere and we give people the chance of hearing about the glories of the Lord, and gradually they become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is, practically, we are feeling it. The recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: īhā haya, this process. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ.



*So this process, giving chance. Of course, those who are preacher, they must be very sincere and serious. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. One must be perfectly in the Vaiṣṇava behavior, sadācāra. Because to hear from professional reciters, there will be no effect. He must be Vaiṣṇava. It is the indication by Sanātana Gosvāmī, avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. One who is professional, who is not Vaiṣṇava, from him, one should not hear about the holy names of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is prohibited. Because it will not be effective. Rather, it will be dangerous. So preaching work, this Kṛṣṇa conscious preaching work, we must be very cautious that those who are preachers, they must be pure Vaiṣṇava. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Not for money's sake, not for reputation sake, lābha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. Only for serving Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This is pure Vaiṣṇavism. One has to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Not for any other purpose. So this preaching work should be taken up by pure Vaiṣṇava, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Brs. 1.1.11]. And if the śāstric injunctions and the direction given by the authorities, if they are presented as they are, surely there will be effect. It has been proved. And it is being proved. So this process we should adopt, and our success of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is assured.

Thank you very much. (end)



730127ND.CAL

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Calcutta, January 27, 1973



*Mādhavānanda: Thirty*-two.



*Prabhupāda: Not thirty*-two. Twenty-three.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty*-three.



*Prabhupāda: Page twenty*-three. Open.



*Mādhavānanda: Here, twenty*-five, page twenty-five.



*Prabhupāda: Hm? Page twenty*-five?



Mādhavānanda: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: Page twenty*-five. I ended...



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Read. Begin reading, Mādhavānanda.



Mādhavānanda: I ended on the second paragraph. Right here. "The vaiśyas are meant for pro..."



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Read.



Mādhavānanda: "The vaiśyas are meant for producing agricultural products, trading them and distributing them. And the working class, or śūdras, are those who haven't the intelligence of the brāhmaṇas or the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas, and therefore they are meant to help these higher classes by bodily labor. In this way, there is full cooperation and spiritual advancement amongst all the different orders of society. And when there is no such cooperation, the members of society will fall down. That is the present position..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is everywhere. Even in, in our society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society, if there is no mutual cooperation, then it will fall down immediately. So as Rūpa Gosvāmī advises, the first thing is enthusiasm, utsāhān. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt... (aside:) Why Śyāmasundara is not here? Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅga ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. If you want actually to make progress in our devotional life, the utsāhān, enthusiasm, is the first thing. If you are lacking enthusiasm, then you should rest, instead of making too much agitation within the mind. The... If you cannot find out... Some, something has dropped in the water, in the river, you cannot see the things dropped within the water by agitating the water. Just stand still for sometimes. As soon as the water is settled up, you'll see the things as they are. So as soon as our enthusiasm is agitated, it is better to sit down in any temple suitable and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no question of being disappointed. After all, we commit so many mistakes. That is human nature. To err is human. That is not fault. But try to rectify with cool head. That is required. So similarly, there are different classes of men in the society: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. They should cooperate for the common cause. They do not know the common cause. The common cause is Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa's service, we should submit to the immediate officer or commander. Just like soldiers. Soldiers, there is no question of discrimination. Whatever is ordered by the commander, immediately done. Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: "That is the present position in the Kali*-yuga, this age of quarrel. Nobody is doing his duty, and everyone is simply puffed up by calling himself a brāhmaṇa, intellectual, or a kṣatriya, soldier or statesman. But actually such people are without status."



*Prabhupāda: This is the statement exactly. Everyone has to do his duty. Otherwise, simply by name, I have become a great devotee, but if I do not do what is enjoined in the śāstras or the spiritual master, then that is simply false, puffed*-up position. Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: "They are out of touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead because they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is intended to set the whole of human society in proper condition so that everyone will be happy and take profit from developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa instructed Uddhava that by following the injunctions of the social and spiritual orders of human society, one can satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as a result of such satisfaction, the whole society gets all the necessities of life amply and without difficulty. This is because, after all, the Supreme Personality of Godhead maintains all other living entities. If the whole world performs its respective duties and remains in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no doubt that all of its members will live very peacefully and happily. Without wanting the necessities of life, the whole world will be turned into Vaikuṇṭha, a spiritual abode. Even without being transferred to the kingdom of God, by following the injunctions of the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and prosecuting the duties of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. all human society will be happy in all respects."



Prabhupāda: Now what is the argument against this? (aside:) Why don't you open this? All, open all fans.



Mādhavānanda: Just the, just...



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe open the doors.



Prabhupāda: Open the doors. Open, fully open. Now we say simply by developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness every member in the society, human society, will be happy. This is our proposal. Now discuss on this point, whether actually people will be happy or unhappy. What is the counterargument? It should be understood by threadbare discussion, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can make the whole society happy. This is the proposal. Now those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, what argument they will forward against this proposition? Yes.



Acyutānanda: Well, as you say, if everyone became Kṛṣṇa conscious, then how would the world go on?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Acyutānanda: If everybody started chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how, how would we eat?



Revatīnandana: Who would run the factories?



*Prabhupāda: So that means the world as it is going on, it is a necessity. Do you think like that? This world, as it is going on, fighting one another, killing one another, stealing one's property and... Do you think that this order of things must go on? Just like the..., it is a proposal when everyone becomes honest, how the prison house will go on? It will be stopped. That's a great anxiety. Do you think the prison house, there is necessity that it will go on? That answer was given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that... Vāsudeva Datta proposed, "My dear Lord, You have come. You take all the sinful persons from this world. Let them be delivered, as You have personally come. So if You think they're so sinful, they cannot be taken back to home, back to Godhead, then I take all their sins. You take them only." That was his offer. Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava thinks like that, that he may remain in the hell, but by Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone may be delivered. That is real Vaiṣṇava. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "Suppose I take all the living entities of this universe, and still there are so many other universes. This universe is just like one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds." So you do not think that everyone will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. You don't be, I mean to say, agitated with this thought: "The prison house will be closed." No. It will go on. The business will go on. It is not so easy that everyone should... But if some percentage of people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, leading men, then it will be... You, you... They'll follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21]. You, you do not think that the bad habits of people, non*-Kṛṣṇa conscious, will stop altogether. No. That is not possible. One hasn't got to think over this. It will go on, side by side. Because this is material world. Māyā. Māyā is very strong. Daivī hi eṣā guṇamayī. But those who are taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, for them, there is no unhappiness. Viśvaṁ pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate. For them, the whole world becomes happy. There is no question of distress. Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: "There is a similar statement by Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself to Uddhava in the Eleventh Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Twenty-seventh Chapter, verse 49. The Lord says there, 'My dear Uddhava, all persons are engaged in activities, whether those indicated in the revealed scriptures or ordinary worldly activities. If by the result of either of such activities they worship Me in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then automatically they become very happy within this world, as well as in the next. Of this there is no doubt.' We can conclude from this statement by Kṛṣṇa that activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give everyone all perfection in their desires.



*"Thus the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that there is no need of even designating oneself brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha or sannyāsī. Let everyone be engaged in whatever occupation he now has. Simply let him worship Lord Kṛṣṇa by the result of his activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will adjust the whole situation and everyone will be happy and peaceful within this world. In the Nārada*-pañcarātra, the regulative princi..."

Prabhupāda: "Everyone" means one who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Everyone" does not mean that one who does not. But if one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by his influence, hundreds will be happy. Hundreds will be happy. So a few people, if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there will be tremendous benefit to the human society. Not that everyone will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. By the presence of really a pure Kṛṣṇa conscious person, many people will be benefited.



*Mādhavānanda: "In the Nārada*-pañcarātra, the regulative principles of devotional service are described as follows: 'Any activities sanctioned in the revealed scriptures and aiming at the satisfaction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are accepted by saintly teachers as the regulative principles of devotional service."



Prabhupāda: This is the primary point. Whatever, laukikī and vaidikī. Vaidikī means according to the scriptures, and laukikī means ordinary, common activities. Both of them, when, they are executed for satisfying of Kṛṣṇa, it is immediately transcendental. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "If somebody regularly executes such service under the Supreme Personality of Godhead under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, then gradually he rises to the platform of serving in pure love of God." "Chapter Three: Eligibility of the Candidate for Accepting Devotional Service. On account of his association with mahātmās, or great souls one hundred percent in the devotional service of the Lord, one may attain a little bit of attraction for Śrī Kṛṣṇa, but, at the same time, one may remain very much attached to fruitive activities and material sense enjoyment and not be prepared to undergo the different types of renunciation. Such a person, if he has unflinching attraction to Kṛṣṇa, becomes an eligible candidate for discharging devotional service.



*"This attraction for Kṛṣṇa consciousness in association with pure devotees is the sign of great fortune. It is confirmed by Lord Caitanya that the only..., only the fortunate persons, by mercy of both the bona fide spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, will get the seed of devotional service. In this connection, Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Twentieth Chapter, verse 8: 'My dear Uddhava, only by exceptional fortune does someone become attached, attracted to Me, Kṛṣṇa. And even if one is not completely detached from fruitive activities or is not completely attached to devotional service, such service is quickly effective.'

"Devotees can be divided into three classes. The first, or uppermost class, is described as follows: One is very expert in the study of relevant scriptures and he is also expert in putting forward arguments in terms of those scriptures. He can very nicely present conclusions with perfect discretion and can consider the ways of devotional..."

*Prabhupāda: These are the symptoms of the topmost devotee. He has got full knowledge in scripture. He can argue on the basis of scripture. He can convince the other party. These are the symptoms of uttama*-adhikārī.



*Mādhavānanda: "He understands perfectly that the ultimate goal of life is to attain to the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa, and he knows that Kṛṣṇa is the only object of worship and love. This first*-class devotee is one who has strictly followed the rules and regulations under the training of a bona fide spiritual master and is sincerely obeying him in accord with revealed scriptures. Thus being fully trained to preach and become a spiritual master himself, he is considered first class. A first-class devotee never deviates from the principles of higher authority, and he attains firm faith in the scriptures by understanding with all reasons and arguments. When we speak of arguments and reason, it means arguments and reason on the basis of revealed scripture. The first-class devotee is not interested in dry speculative methods for wasting time. In other words, one who has attained a mature determination in the matter of devotional service can be accepted as the first-class devotee.



*"The second*-class devotee has been defined by the following symptoms: he is not very expert in arguing on the strength of revealed scripture, but he has firm faith in the objective. The purport of this description is that the second-class devotee has firm faith in the procedure of devotional service unto Kṛṣṇa, but he may sometimes fail to offer arguments and decisions on the strength of revealed scripture to an opposing party. But at the same time, he is still undaunted within himself as to his decision that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme object of worship.

*"The neophyte, or third*-class devotee, is one whose faith is not strong and, at the same time, does not recognize the decision of the revealed scripture. The neophyte's faith can be changed by someone else with strong arguments or by an opposite decision. Unlike the second-class devotee, who also cannot put forward arguments and evidences from the scriptures, but who has still, has all faith in the objective, the neophyte has no firm faith in the objective. Thus he is called a neophyte devotee.

*"Further classification of the neophyte devotee is made in the Bhagavad*-gītā. It is stated there that four classes of men, namely those who are distressed, those who are in need of money, those who are inquisitive and those who are wise, begin devotional service and come to the Lord for relief in the matter of their respectful self-satisfaction. They go into some place of worship and pray to God for mitigation of material distress or for some economic development, or to satisfy their inquisitiveness. And a wise man who simply realizes the greatness of God is also counted amongst the neophytes. Such beginners can be elevated to the second-class platform if they associate with pure devotees.

*"An example of the neophyte class is Mahārāja Dhruva. He was in need of his father's kingdom and therefore engaged himself in devotional service to the Lord. Then, in the end, when he was completely purified, he declined to accept any material benediction from the Lord. Similarly, Gajendra was also distressed and prayed to Kṛṣṇa for protection, after which he became a pure devotee. Similarly Sanaka, Sanātana, Sananda and Sanat*-kumāra were all in the category of wise, saintly persons, and they were also attracted by devotional service. A similar thing happened to the assembly in the Naimiṣāraṇya Forest, headed by the sage Śaunaka. They were inquisitive and were always asking Sūta Gosvāmī about Kṛṣṇa. Thus they achieved the association of a pure devotee and became pure devotees themselves. So that is the way of elevating oneself. In whatever condition one may be, if he is fortunate enough to associate with pure devotees, then very quickly he is elevated to the second-class or first-class platform.

*"These four types of devotees have been described in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad*-gītā, and they, they have all been accepted as pious. Without becoming pious, no one can come to devotional service. It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that only one who has completely executed pious activities and whose sinful reactions of life have completely stopped can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Others cannot. The neophyte devotees are classified into four groups: the distressed, those who are in need of money, the inquisitive and the wise-according to their gradations of pious activities. Without pious activities, if a man is in a distressed condition, he becomes an agnostic, communist, or something like that. Because he does not firmly believe in God, he thinks that he can adjust his distressed condition by totally disbelieving in Him.

"Lord Kṛṣṇa, however, has explained in the *Gītā* that out of these four types of neophytes, the one who is very..., who is wise is very dear to Him because a wise man, if he is attached to Kṛṣṇa, is not seeking an exchange of material benefits. A wise man who becomes attached to Kṛṣṇa does not want any return from Him, neither in the form of relieving distress nor in gaining money. This means that from the very beginning the basic principle of attachment to Kṛṣṇa is, more or less, love. Furthermore, due to his wisdom and study of śāstra and scriptures, he can understand also that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead."[break]

Acyutānanda: When people are starving and they have no clothing, then how can they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? First give them food, then clothing and education, and then Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, are they starving? Then why they not become Kṛṣṇa conscious?



Acyutānanda: They said because first they had, had to give them food so that they could have time to...



Prabhupāda: No. Those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, practically, we are not starving.



Devotee: In India... [break]



Prabhupāda: ...stomach. In India there are many persons whose stomach is already filled up, but he's not chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is not a condition, that because the stomach is filled up, therefore one will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ahaituky apratihatā. Chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not caused by anything. Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked by any condition. Your chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra cannot be checked because one is poor. No. That is not a fact. Any condition, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now a poor man is suffering without chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So what is the harm if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa? There are many poor men, they're not chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They're suffering. But, in that condition, if they're induced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, what is the harm if there is some benefit?



Pañcadraviḍa: Well, these welfare workers say, "We have a positive solution. We believe the answer is by providing food and shelter, clothing. Or if you will offer..."



*Prabhupāda: But you cannot, you have not done this. There are so many men without shelter, without food. What you have done for them? The Ramakrishna Mission began for daridra*-nārāyaṇa sevā. They have got so much big, big buildings, institutions. And why the daridra-nārāyaṇa is lying on the street? What they are doing? Why do they not take the daridra-nārāyaṇas in the big, big building they have got? Their mission is daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā. Why they are not doing that?



Indian man: (Hindi conversation with Śrīla Prabhupāda) [break]



*Prabhupāda: "...and naturally inclined to enjoy. And you have encouraged them in that way in the name of religion. This is very condemned and is quite unreasonable. Because they are guided under your instructions, they will accept such activities in the name of religion and will hardly care for prohibitions. They will hardly care for prohibitions." (Hindi*-end)





730128ND.CAL

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Calcutta, January 28, 1973



*Mādhavānanda: (reading:) "It is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā that after many, many births, when one becomes actually wise, he surrenders unto Vāsudeva, knowing perfectly well that Kṛṣṇa (Vāsudeva) is the origin and cause of all causes. Therefore he sticks to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and gradually develops love for Him. Although such a wise man is very dear to Kṛṣṇa, the others are also accepted as very magnanimous because even though they are distressed or in need of money, they have come to Kṛṣṇa for satisfaction. Thus they are accepted as liberal, broad-minded mahātmās.



"Without being elevated to the position of jñānī, or wise man, no one can stick to the principle of worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Others who are less intelli..."

Prabhupāda: This tulasī. big plant, while passing it should not touch your cloth. It is not ordinary plant. Very careful. Or it should not be kept there. Be careful. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "Others, who are less intelligent, or those whose intelligence has been taken away by the spell of māyā, are attached to different demigods on account of the influence of the modes of nature. The wise man is he who has clearly understood that he is not..., that he is spirit soul and not simply a body. Because he realizes that he is spirit and that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Spirit, he knows that his intimate relationships should be with Kṛṣṇa, not with this body. The distressed and the man who wants money are in the material concept of life because distress and need of money are both in relationship with this body. One who is inquisitive may be a little above the distressed and the man in need of money, but still he is on the material platform. But a wise man who seeks Kṛṣṇa knows perfectly well that he is spirit soul, or Brahman, and that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme spirit soul, or Parabrahman. He knows that the spirit soul, being subordinate and finite..."



Prabhupāda: Where it is?



*Mādhavānanda: At the bottom of thirty*-one.



*Prabhupāda: Eh? Thirty*-one?



Mādhavānanda: At the bottom of the page.



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "He knows that the spirit soul, being subordinate and finite, should always dovetail himself with the infinite and supreme soul, Kṛṣṇa. That is the relationship of the wise man with Kṛṣṇa.



"It can be concluded that a person who is freed from the bodily concept of life is an eligible candidate for pure devotional service."

*Prabhupāda: "It can be concluded that a person who is freed from the bodily concept of life is an eligible candidate for pure devotional service." People generally think that by, through devotional service, one rises to the platform of Brahman-jñāna, nirbheda brahmānu-sandhana. Even the so-called devotees*-they are called sahajiyās-their ultimate goal is to merge into the existence of Brahman. That Rajani Sena, Bombay, he's also preaching in that way. And their process is very abominable. The, the sahajiyās, they also think like that, that by sex one can rise to that platform of merging into the effulgence of Brahman. Even Vivekananda was talking that "This Vaiṣṇava religion is a religion of sex." They have been so much misrepresented. By sexual indulgence, one can become one with the Supreme. This is their theory, very dangerous theory. Therefore these sahajiyās are amongst the thirteen rejected apa-sampradāyas. In the name of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, there are so many apa-sampradāyas. Apa-sampradāya means they present themselves as belonging to the Caitanya cult. But they are not at all bona fide. They are rejected. [break] Even such sahajiyās, they would not read even Bhagavad-gītā. They think themselves that they are so, I mean to say, elevated, they have surpassed reading of Bhagavad-gītā. Similarly there are sahajiyās, they also say that kīrtana is not required for them. Kīrtana, one who has very much advanced, he doesn't require to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I have heard it.



But the [break] ...begins from kīrtana. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Śāstra says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31].

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*So in this age, especially in Kali-yuga, one who does not join in the kīrtana, he's not a devotee at all. He's outside, bahir aṅga, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. This śravaṇa kīrtana is the first business of devotee. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Those who are actually devotees... Caitanya Mahāprabhu always engaged in kīrtana. He advised, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. It is not that one who is advanced, he hasn't, hasn't got to take part in kīrtana. That is nonsense. Sadā. Sadā means always, whether you are advanced or not advanced. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Śravaṇaṁ, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Kīrtana, as, unless one hears, how he can... Kīrtana also... Speaking (is) also kīrtana. But unless one is hea..., hearing, how he can speak? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanam... [SB 7.5.23]. These are nine different processes, and our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, following the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, their principal business is this kīrtana, hari-kīrtana: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. It is in Bhāgavata, it is said: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Unless one is enthusiastic in śravaṇaṁ kīrtana, especially kīrtana..., kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya... There are... Talking of Kṛṣṇa, that is also kīrtana. But especially for the general... For everyone. Why general? Everyone. Caitanya Mahāprabhu-who can be more advanced than Caitanya Mahāprabhu?*-He was daily joining in kīrtana. Four hours daily at Jagannātha Purī temple. It was a regular program. Not only that: He organized four parties, four parties, sixteen men in each party. So the four parties in four directions, they'll perform kīrtana, and in every party Caitanya Mahāprabhu seemed to be, He's present in every party. That was another opulence of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So He has recommended,



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*One should be very tolerant and humble and giving respect to anyone, not expecting any respect for oneself. Such person can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra sadā, always. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: "It is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā that after Brahman realization, when one is freed from material anxieties and can see every living entity on an equal level, he is eligible to enter into devotional service.



"As has been stated before, there..."

*Prabhupāda: "When one is free from material anxiety." Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. That is the stage of free from anxieties. If I've got some anxieties for maintaining or some way or other, any anxieties, he cannot perfectly chant kīrtana. But even though one is full of anxieties, if he takes to kīrtana, then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], his unclean heart becomes cleansed, and the more the heart becomes cleansed, he becomes anxiety-less. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Unless our dirty heart is cleansed by the chanting process... By the chanting process, the dirty heart or consciousness or mind will be cleansed. This is the formula given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. So long we are in dirty heart, dirty, polluted mind, there is no question of anxiety-less. That is required. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. One who is God-realized, one who is advanced in spiritual life, he will be anxiety-less, prasannātmā. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ [SB 1.2.20]. Bhagavad-bhakti-yoga. One who is practicing Bhagavad-yoga, then this is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is the verdict of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12].



*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



*The process is one must be free from anxiety. And how one can become free from anxiety unless one is realized Brahman soul, realized soul, brahma*-bhūtaḥ? There are one after another. So evaṁ prasanna-manaso. Without being anxiety-less, nobody can understand the science of God. This is the verdict of Bhagavad, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ. One who has executed the process of bhagavad-bhakti according to the rules and regulations, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], he'll be prasanna-manaso. The same thing, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. The Bhāgavata says, evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, bhagavat-tattva-vijñānam [SB 1.2.20]. Bhagavat-tattva, the science of God, is a vijñāna. It is a science. It is not sentiment. Sentiment: I close my eyes and shed some tears, and then I go for smoking cigarette. That sentiment will not help us. It is a science. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. One who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become guru. Pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. He can make disciples all over the world. Pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt.



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirmed it:

kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kena naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva(-vettā) sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*It doesn't matter whether one is a gṛhastha or one is a sannyāsī or one is a brāhmaṇa or not brāhmaṇa. It doesn't matter. Because this is not the science of this physiological ana..., anatomical science, or cobbler's science. Cobbler's science means cobbler knows what kind of skin it is. It is not like that. Neither cobbler's science nor anatomical science or physiological science. Bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānam. It is another science. So anyone who is well-versed in bhagavat-tattva-vijñānam, he's, he can become guru. Not others. And in many places this is confirmed, that ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro. A brāhmaṇa, very well expert in his business... Brāhmaṇa's business means ṣaṭ-karma, six kinds of karma. Paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa must be very learned scholar. Brāhmaṇa paṇḍita. He must be scholar. Scholar means not ordinary, but in transcendental science. Tad vijñānam. So paṭhana pāṭhana. And he must be expert teacher also. He should not... Actually in our India, formerly, the brāhmaṇas, they usually become teachers. In any village, a brāhmaṇa has no other business. He sits down. He's called catuṣpāṭhī, the higher scholars. But for ordinary also. A brāhmaṇa... Guru-maharṣayaḥ. We studied under guru maharṣayaḥ in our childhood. Pāṭha śālā. So anywhere a brāhmaṇa can sit down and the village boys, small boys, children would come there. He doesn't charge anything, but their father, mother sends everything-rice, dahl, cloth. So he has no much demand for bodily necessities. This was paṭhana. This is brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa should not accept any service. Formerly Sanātana Gosvāmī, because he accepted the service of Nawab Hussein Shah, he was rejected from the brāhmaṇa society. In the Bhāgavata also it is stated if a brāhmaṇa is in difficulty, he may accept the profession of a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, but never of a śūdra. Śūdra has been described there as dog. A dog, without having a master, he cannot live very nicely. Street dog is very wretched, but a dog under the care of a good master is very healthy and very happy. Similarly a śūdra cannot live without having a master. That has been described as the dog's business. So similarly a brāhmaṇa will never accept any service. He'll starve, but he'll never accept any service. That is against brāhmaṇa principles. Therefore ṣaṭ-karma-nipu... He can accept charity if somebody gives willfully. Dana pratigraha. But pratigraha dāna. He'll take, pratigraha, accept charity, but whatever he requires, he'll spend, and the balance he'll immediately distribute. Dāna. In Bengal it is said, lakteke baundiki (?). The... Why? A brāhmaṇa gets one lakh of rupees; next day, he's again beggar. Why? He'll not keep anything. Whatever he requires for the day's expenditure, he will take it and balance he will again distribute.



*So ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇo vipro. Such strict brāhmaṇa, very expert in his business, paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigraha. Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ... And very well expert in his studies, mantra, Vedic mantra, tantra. Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, avaiṣṇava guru na sa syād. If he is avaiṣṇava, then he cannot be guru. Cannot be guru. Sad-vaiṣṇava śva-paca guru. But a śvapacaḥ, a dog-eaters family, caṇḍāla... Just the brāhmaṇa is considered to be the highest in the society, similarly caṇḍāla is considered to be the lowest, dog-eaters. So the śāstra says the highest, the topmost man in the society, brāhmaṇa, if he's avaiṣṇava, he cannot be guru, but the, a person coming out from the lowest grade of human society, śvapacaḥ, caṇḍāla, if he's a Vaiṣṇava, he can become guru. This is the verdict of the śāstra.

*ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇo vipro

*mantra*-tantra-viśāradaḥ

avaiṣṇava guru na sa syād

*sad vaiṣṇava śva*-pacaḥ guru



*Therefore one, one who, even coming from low*-grade family, if he has become Vaiṣṇava, then he's no longer in the worldly society. He's transcendental. Brahmā-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. One who is engaged in pure devotional service, he's in the Brahman platform. He should not be neglected. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, arcye śilā-dhīr, guruṣu nara-mati, vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. These are warned. One should not consider the Deity as made of stone, arcye śilā-dhīr. Śālagrāma-śilā. If somebody says, "What is this, a stone chip, or stone ball?" No. These are warned in the śāstra. Vaiṣṇave... Ja... Similarly, to consider a Vaiṣṇava as belonging to certain caste is as abominable as to think that the Deity is made of stone. Everyone knows it is made of stone. But are we worshiping the stone? We are spending so much money for decorating stone? No. Because we have no eyes to see, we see stone. Kṛṣṇa is not stone. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can appear in any way, any form, as He likes. That is His mercy. Because we cannot see except stone. Similarly, therefore He appears as stone. But He's not stone. If we think that it is stone, then we are gone to hell. You see. No. Arcye śilā-dhīr. Similarly Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava should not be considered that "Here is American Vaiṣṇava," or "brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava," and "śūdra Vaiṣṇava." No. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. There is no more distinction. Just like Ganges water. So many sewage ditches, water coming, mixing in Calcutta. Everyone knows. But nobody says, "Oh, it is Chhitergar Paper Mills sewage water." No. That is Ganges water. Everyone takes bath, without any objection. Everyone is taking water and giving, bringing to the Deity room. Nobody distinguishes that this, with this water, so many mill water has been mixed up. Therefore it is rejected. No. Similarly, when one becomes Vaiṣṇava, never mind from which family's he's came. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. One should not distinguish, "Oh, here is American Vaiṣṇava. Here is a European Vaiṣṇava. How can I eat with them?" This is not... Vaiṣṇava should be respected. Sad vaiṣṇavaḥ śvapaco guru.



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirms, kibā vipra... Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he came from Muhammadan family. Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him the title Nāmācārya, Ācārya. He became, he became the teacher of the science of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Nāmācārya. We, every day, we glorify Haridāsa Ṭhākura: nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya. Why? Because... If you can say, "Oh, he was born in Muhammadan family..." No. So all Caitanya Mahāprabhu's big assistants... Sanātana Gosvāmī, he, Sanātana, Rūpa Gosvāmī, they were practically Muhammadan, because the brāhmaṇa society rejected them. They changed their name. Dabira Khāsa. Sākara Mallika. But Caitanya, by association of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they became Gosvāmī. Sanātana Gosvāmī... Ei chaya gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says. That it is not to be considered, "Oh, these people..." This is the defect. So many people converted to Muslim, and we did not take care. Therefore the whole country is spoiled. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ.

*So we should take care of everyone. That is the verdict of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, verdict of Kṛṣṇa. Now we are doing that in our Māyāpur. All the Muhammadans and Hindus, they are taking prasādam together. This has been a unique thing. People are very much appreciating. But some of them, some envious persons are there. They are taking it otherwise. Why? In Jagannātha Purī, still the regulation is that anyone can come and take together jagannātha*-prasādam. It doesn't matter whether he's a baṅghi, camara or brāhmaṇa. They take actually. Prasāda. Prasāda is transcendental, nirguṇa. So prasāda should be taken together. If you have got really sense of prasāda... If we think it is dahl, capati, then it is another thing. Otherwise, if you have got the sense of prasāda, then there should be no distinction. It should, it can be... "Prasādam, I am taking prasādam, which is nirguṇa." So these are the conclusions. So unless we come to the conclusion of Vaiṣṇava cult, it is very difficult. The Vaiṣṇava cult conclusion should be taken. Otherwise we cannot preach. Without becoming Vaiṣṇava, one cannot become guru. Without becoming guru, how one can preach? These are the formulas. And anxiety-less, when one takes to the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he must be anxiety-less. Because Kṛṣṇa says, gives assurance, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Then where is anxiety? Kṛṣṇa says, "I take charge of giving you relief from all sinful reactions." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So as soon as, mokṣayiṣya, as soon as you surrender to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa immediately takes charge of you and makes you immune from all sinful reaction. Then where is anxiety? That is also recommended by Prahlāda Mahārāja: vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta.

*tad sādhu manye 'sura*-varya dehināṁ

*sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt

*hitvātma*-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

[SB 7.5.5]



*If we become, if we want to become anxiety*-less, then we have to take shelter of Hari and go to the forest. Prahlāda Mahārāja recommended, vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. Hitvā ātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. Gṛha is compared as andha-kūpa, blind well. And ātma-pātam. If one falls down within blind well... (noise in background) (aside:) What is this sound? Eh? Down?



Devotees: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Hmmm? Hitvātma*-pātaṁ gṛhaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. Unless we take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be any question of anxiety-lessness. No, it is not possible. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: "When one is freed from material anxieties..." This is the process. Therefore we have started this society. People may take advantage of it, and he becomes free from all anxieties. Simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness will make him anxiety*-less. Otherwise there is no question. Because anxiety means asad-grahāt. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Those who are materially inclined, asat, sad gamaḥ, asato mā. That is the Vedic injunction. Don't keep yourself in the asad. Asad means material, "which will not exist." That is called material. Sad-gamaḥ. And sat means which is spiritual. So, so long one is in asat, asat grahāt, implicated, involved in material things, there is no question of... Therefore viṣaya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned us not to be involved in viṣaya. Viṣaya means material things, money, woman. They are called viṣaya. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us by His practical behavior that... Mahārāja Pratāparudra, he was a great devotee and serving Caitanya Mahāprabhu in every way. But when he wanted to see Him, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He denied: "No, no, no. I cannot see a king. I cannot see." So His personal devotees, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Rāmānanda Rāya, very confidential devotees, they requested, "Sir, he's a great devotee. He serves You in so many ways." "Yes, I know that, but because he's king, I cannot see him. Because he's king, I cannot see him." And in this connection, He's made a verse, Sanskrit verse:



*niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad*-bhajanonmukhasya

*pāraṁ padaṁ jigamiṣor bhava*-sāgarasya

viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca

*hā hanta hanta viṣa*-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu

[Cc. Madhya 11.8]



*He recited this, that if one is trying to make progress in spiritual life just to go on the other side of this bhava, bhava*-sāgara, the ocean of material existence, then two things he should avoid: viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca, a person who is attached to money and a person attached to too much sense enjoyment. One should not associate with such persons. Viṣa bhakṣaṇad api asādhavaḥ. Such action, for a devotee, is more abominable than drinking poison. It is warned. So those who are preaching, we have to meet with these viṣayīs, but one... Because when we have to preach, we have to see so many viṣayīs, but we should be very, very careful. We should be very careful. We have to meet also women, sometimes young women, beautiful women. But we must be very, very careful. Otherwise it is very dangerous. These things are... These things create anxieties. Viṣayināṁ sandarśanam. As soon as we become attached to viṣaya and women, then we become anxiety. That is material.



*So this line of devotional service, there is direction in the śāstras. Therefore we have made prohibition that no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat, fish*-eating, no intoxication. Even the smallest intoxication, that is also dangerous. Just like fire. Even a small particle of fire is dangerous. If you neglect it, "Oh, it is a small particle..." No. You must extinguish it. It may come out very great fire. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has advised that fire and disease and debt, don't neglect. You must clear. If you neglect a small fire, it may come out a great fire. If you, if you neglect, you have got debt, the money-lender, he's adding compound interest, one after another, one after another; it was three rupees, and after some years, it has become three hundred, by compound interest. So you should not neglect. Similarly disease. Disease also, you cannot neglect. If there is... If you think, "Oh, it is little, it doesn't matter..." No. You must finish it by treatment. That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice.

So everything is there for our knowledge, provided we follow. So there is no difficulty. Therefore our process is mahājana yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. We cannot manufacture our ways. We must follow the footsteps of predecessors. That is our business. Mahājana yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. By argument, by scholarship, or by becoming philosopher, one cannot make any progress, unless he follows the great ācāryas, predecessors strictly. Otherwise it is not possible.

What is time now? All right. Have kīrtana. (end)



730129ND.CAL

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Calcutta, January 29, 1973



Bhavānanda: (reading:) "As has been stated before, there are three kinds of happiness: material, spiritual and devotional. Devotional service and the happiness due to its execution are not possible so long as one is materially affected. If someone has desire for material enjoyment or for becoming one with the Supreme, these are both considered material concepts."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Three kinds of happinesses, bhoga, tyāga, and bhakti, sevā. Bhoga tyāga sevā. The karmīs, they are after bhoga, sense enjoyment. And the jñānīs, they are after another side of negation of sense enjoyment. When one is fed up with sense enjoyment... Just like in your country, the young boys, they are practically fed up with the way of sense enjoyment as their fathers and grandfathers had done. So in the name of tyāga, renunciation, they have taken another kind of sense enjoyment*-intoxication, unrestricted sex. So this is also another sense enjoyment. Bhoga and tyāga. Real enjoyment is devotion. There is a very practical example. Just like if you get all of a sudden a certain amount of money, say, one hundred rupees note lying on the street, if you get... Or lying here. So if you take it, your conscience will beat, because that does not belong to you. You have picked up. You'll always think, "Oh, I am taking somebody's money. Whose money it was? I'm doing some sinful." In this way, your mind will disturb. So that is the taking. And similarly, if you don't take, if you leave it there, then you'll also be disturbed. You'll think, "Somebody has left this money here. So I did not collect it. Somebody will collect it, and he'll take it away. This is not nice." The best thing is that you pick it up and, if you deliver to the person who has lost the money or who has left that money. Three things. The one thing is bhoga, if you take yourself. And if you don't take, that is tyāga. And if you pick it up and deliver to the right person, that is devotion.



*So everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the supreme proprietor, Mahā-īśvara." Mahā īśaṁ parameśvaram. So everyone, īśvara, but nobody is Mahā-īśvara or Parameśvara. Mahā-īśvara is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Mahā-īśvara. Mahā means the great. So everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. This is unknown to the nondevotees. The karmīs also do not know. The karmīs think that the resources of the world, that is given by nature for our enjoyment. This is the modern theory of economic development. Everyone is thinking like that, that by nature we have got the gold mine, so we shall take it and use it and enjoy. This is karmī's view. And... But there are many karmīs. Everyone is... Just like what is that land where there is too much gold, in South America?

Devotee: Brazil.



*Prabhupāda: Brazil. There is too much gold stocked there. And every nation is hankering, how to take it. That will be the effect. What is the struggle in this world? Struggle is the gold is there, the gold mine is there, and everyone is trying to exploit it, "How I can take or my nation can take." Nationality means expanded selfishness. They are very much fond of nationality, but that nationality is also selfishness-by combined effort. Our, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi is supposed to be the father of nationality. Not only in our country, in many other countries. But what is that nationality? Mahatma Gandhi wanted that "The Britishers must go away. My countrymen shall enjoy." So this is extended selfishness. In the beginning, I want to enjoy. Then if I, I extend my enjoyment, family-wise, community-wise or nation-wise, that does not change the quality of selfishness. People are going on in the name of nationality, big leaders, but from our point of view, that neither as nation or community or person you are the proprietor of things. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of... So if you expand your selfishness in the name of nationality-"I possess this land"*-we do not approve. We say, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Why you are claiming yourself, as nation or individual or community? That's not proper. Just like pickpocket and a gang, gangsters, organized rogues, thieves. It does not change the quality. There was some talk, you know, between Alexander the Great and the robber. The robber proved that "You are a greater robber. That's all. Why you are trying to punish me?" Alexander the Great arrested one robber, and he was going to punish him. So the robber explained that "Why you are punishing me? You are also a robber. You are going under the name of conqueror, and because I am not as great as you are, therefore you are trying to punish me. So why you are...?" So Alexander the Great, he was very, mean, highly advanced in... He immediately released him. "Yes. I am also a robber. Why shall I punish you?"



So every... Stenayor sa ucyate. Everyone in this material world, one who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's a thief, he's a rogue, he's a robber. Everyone. Just like the Americans. They occupied the land of America by killing the Red Indians, and now they are claiming proprietor, and there is immigration department: "Nobody can come here. It is our land." This is going on. The first thing is stolen property, everyone. There is another story. A group of thieves stolen some things, and when they were dividing, one of them: "Kindly, morally divide. Morally divide. Honestly divide." The thing is taken dishonestly, and they are dividing honestly. This is going on, whole world. Everything is taken dishonestly, and when there is question of division, the United Nations honestly divides it. The association of the honest men, United Nations. All plunderers, rogues, thieves, and they have made an association, United Nations. You see. Basically they're all rogues and thieves. As soon as there is opportunity, they'll commit all criminal activities. And they're doing. So this is not philosophy. So here happiness by material possession is the happiness of the rogues and the thieves. One who is happy by possessing some material things, he is no better than rogue and thief. And one who is renouncing, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, he is a fool. Because how, what you are renouncing? When did you possess it? If you possess something, then you can say, "I renounce it." But if you do not possess, then where is the question of renouncement? So both of them are wrong.

*There, there are three kinds of so-called spiritual happiness, brahma-sukha, brahmānanda... Three kinds of ānanda, jaḍānanda, brahmānanda. Jaḍānanda means material. As karmīs are trying to possess more and more, more and more-"Let me possess, let me possess"*-this is jaḍānanda. Today I have got, say, one lakh of rupees. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. This is stated, the asuric vicāra. "Today I have got so much money. And tomorrow I am going to increase it to so much." Ko 'sti āḍhyo 'yam. "I am the richest." This is karmī's conception. And jñānīs, because they're fed up, so they say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This world is false." Grapes are sour. You know the story, jackal? He wanted to take the grapes, jumping, jumping, jumping. When he could not get it, he says, "Oh, grapes are sour. I have no necessity. I have no necessity." Similarly these rascals, they renounce the world. What renouncement? What you had? You are renouncing? This is also wrong. The real happiness is sevā. "This is Kṛṣṇa's, and it must be used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose." That is real happiness. Actual, that is the fact. The same example: If you pick up one hundred rupees' note, if you pocket it, then you are a thief. If you don't touch it, then it will be lost; somebody will take it. You pick up and give to the original proprietor, that will be satisfaction. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. We do not say anything bad. We do not say. That is Rūpa Gosvāmī's formula. That is Vaiṣṇava formula.

prāpañcikatayā (buddhyā)

*hari*-sambandhe-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

phalgu vairāgyaṁ kathyate



*Phalgu vairāgya. Mumukṣubhiḥ, those who are after liberation, nirbheda brahmānusandhana, their giving up this world, becoming sannyāsī, Māyāvādī sannyāsī, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā... Rūpa Gosvāmī says, phalgu vairāgya. Why phalgu? Phalgu means insignificant, and phalgu means there is a river, Phalgu, in the Gayā. Those who have gone to Gayā... There is a river. The Gayā city is situated on the river Phalgu. This river is got Phalgu because on the bed you'll find only sand. But if you push your hand within the sand, you'll find water. Similarly phalgu vairāgya means the so*-called sannyāsīs, they have taken the dress of renounced order, but within the heart they have got all desires to fulfill. Within the heart. If you push your hand within his heart, you'll find he has got all desires for material enjoyment. That is called phalgu vairāgya. On the surface there is no water; sand. But within, oh, there is flow of water, going on. So this phalgu vairāgya wallas, Māyāvādī sannyāsīs... Jagan mithyā. They give up this world, so many sannyāsīs. But at heart there is the desire: "I shall become God. I shall become God." Just see. We are trying... The karmīs are trying to become minister, and he's trying to become God. So how much great desire he has got. And outwardly he appears to be renounced.



*So brahma, nirbheda brahmānusandhana. But a devotee, his happiness is different. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. We do not want this. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. A Vaiṣṇava does not desire even liberation, what to speak of dhanam, janam, rūpavatī bhāryā. That is real Vaiṣṇava. He wants simply Kṛṣṇa, to serve Him. That's... Anyābhilāṣitā... So that happiness is perfect happiness. That is real śānti. Real śānti. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta therefore says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. Bhukti means karmīs, simply wanting, possess. That, that possessing labor is also another aśānti, to struggle to possess. So he's aśānta. Mukti, he wants to become God, one with God. And kṛccha sādhana, austerities, penance, so many things he has to do-meditation-just to become God. So that is also troublesome. Where is śānti? Yogis, they're also practicing praṇāyāma, so many āsanas, dhyāna dhāraṇā, āsana, praṇāyāma. So where is śānti? He has to keep his head down and, what is called? Śīrṣāsana. That is also another āsana. Then he has to show magic. Otherwise he'll not be recognized. He has to prepare a rasagullā by magic. These are all troublesome things. So bhukti-mukti-siddhi. Bhukti means karmī, mukti means jñānī and siddhi means yogi. Bhukti means siddhi kāmī sakali aśānta. Their process is aśānti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta does not require to possess anything or to renounce anything or to show some magic power. No. He has nothing to do all these things. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta does not want that "I shall show some magic and people will be attracted." If one is Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he attracts thousands without any magic. The only magic is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. That's all. He doesn't require to show any yogic magic. It is so nice thing.

*Therefore one should concentrate upon devotional service. Everything is there. Sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā. If you..., one is devotee of Acyuta, everything is complete there. And he's śānta. He does not require it. He does not endeavor for it. But because he's Kṛṣṇa*-bhakta, everything follows him. Everything follows him. That ānanda is nice. There is no need of showing magic or renouncing this world or accepting this world. These things are not required by Kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Because if he accepts, it is for Kṛṣṇa. If he rejects, that is for Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpa prātikūlyaṁ vivarjanam. We advise, "Give up this habit. No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating." So this is tyāga. Why tyāga? For Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants this. Kṛṣṇa does not want to see us debauchees. Therefore we must give it up. And Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām... [Bg. 18.65]. We accept it. So our business is to accept by which Kṛṣṇa is pleased, and reject by which Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Our central point is how Kṛṣṇa is pleased. So we have nothing to do with acceptance and rejection. We have to see whether Kṛṣṇa or His representative is pleased. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya prasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. That is our practical... And if we live in that way, then we shall be happy. That is called happiness by devotional service. Go on.

Bhavānanda: "Because the impersonalists cannot appreciate the spiritual happiness of association and the exchange of loving affairs with the Supreme Personality of Godhead..."



Prabhupāda: Because they have no conception of Godhead. Nirākāra. So nirākāra, where is the loving affairs with nirākāra? I cannot love the air. If I want to love, if somebody says, "You love this air, nirākāra," oh, where is my love? Love must be there. Just like here we have got Kṛṣṇa. We can love. We cannot love this sky. So they have no conception of God; therefore their love of God is all fictitious. Just like Rabindranath Tagore, he has written Gītāñjali, "Tumi." Who is that tumi, he does not know. All the poetry's "tumi, tomāra," and who is that rascal, tumi or tomāra? But that he does not know. This is going on. Now if I say, "My husband, tumi," I know, he's my husband. Or his form is like that. Then I can say. But he does not know who is that tumi. Everyone... The impersonalists will pray, tam eva mātā tam eva pitā. But who is that mātā, who is that pitā? That he does not know. We say, "Here is your mātā, pitā, Kṛṣṇa. Here is Kṛṣṇa." That is tangible. Fact. Not fictitious. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "Their ultimate goal is to become one with the Lord. This concept is simply an extension of the material idea. In the material world..."



Prabhupāda: Our concept is also to become one with God, but not that I become one with God; *I agree with God. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I agree, "Yes, Sir. So long I was foolishly conducted. Now I surrender unto You."



mānasa deha geha yo kichu mora

*arpilūn tuyā pade nanda*-kiśora



*This is surrender. That is oneness. "Now I have surrendered to You everything." Mārabi rākhobi yaiche taṅhārā. This is oneness. "Whatever You like, You can do, You kill me or protect me." Ya icchā taṅhārā nitya dāsa prati tuyā adhikārā: "Because I am Your eternal slave, You can do whatever you like." Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā, yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo [Cc. Antya 20.47]. "Whatever You like, You can do." Mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu... "Still You are my prāṇa-nātha." This is oneness. I keep my individuality, but I am so surrendered that I have nothing to disagree with Kṛṣṇa. This is oneness. Not that I mix up, I lose my individuality. I have got individuality. I must go on with individuality. And even individuality's never stopped. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "All these kings, you and Me, all of us, we existed in the past, we are now existing, and in the future also we shall exist." There is no question of intermingling the individuality. The individuality's there, but individuality sacrificed, full agreement. Full agreement. That is oneness. Just like in our Society, I am the head. So everyone is in agreement with me. That is oneness. Not that my disciples, my students, have lost their individuality. They're using their individuality to improve the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement-but sanctioned by me. That is oneness. That is oneness. Similarly, our devotional service is like that. We, varieties of work we are doing, but we must see whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. That's all. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. This is our philosophy. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Everyone has got individual capacity to do something, but we must see whether that is satisfactory to Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. Just (like) in the office, the clerks are working. The office master, superintendent, if he's pleased, then the proprietor is pleased. The clerk hasn't got to show a separate endeavor for pleasing the proprietor. If the man in charge is pleased, then proprietor is pleased. Similarly, we have to please our spiritual master. And if he's pleased, it is to be supposed Kṛṣṇa is pleased. And my only aim is, my only success is to see if Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Others may be displeased or pleased*-it doesn't matter. One has to be assured whether Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Then it is all right. That is oneness. Oneness does not mean I lose my individuality. That is not oneness. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "In the material world, everyone is trying to be the topmost head man amongst all his fellow men or neighbors. Either communally, socially or nationally, everyone is competing to be greater than all others in the material concept of life. This greatness can be extended to the unlimited, so that one actually wants to become one with the greatest of all, the Supreme Lord. This is also a material concept, although maybe a little more advanced."



*Prabhupāda: This kind of conception, that "I shall become God," or "I shall declare myself God," this is also material conception. This is not spiritual conception. Spiritually, nobody can become God except God. But he has no knowledge of God. He's thinking that he's God. Vimukta*-māninaḥ. Tvayy asta-bhāvād. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Māninaḥ means taking for granted that "I've become liberated. I have become God." And I advertise, and some foolish people, they adore me: "Oh, here is God. Here is Bala-yogi incarnation, God." So such cheap God, we don't accept. We want to see that Kṛṣṇa, at seven years old, He lifted Govardhana Hill. So if you are actually God, then show me that you can lift a hill, you can kill a Pūtanā. Then I can accept. What sort of God you are? We don't accept such cheap God. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "However, the perfect spiritual concept of life is complete knowledge of one's constitutional position, and thus one knows enough to dovetail himself in the transcendental loving..."



*Prabhupāda: This is called ātma*-jñāna. Ātma-jñāna. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. This is ātma-tattvam. "I am spirit soul," that is partial knowledge. And I am eternal spirit soul, but unless I know that I am part and parcel of the Supreme Ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, my knowledge is not perfect. Simply brahma-bhūtaḥ, to know that I am spirit soul, that is not perfect knowledge. You have to still go further. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2]. Śrīdhara Swami says that kaitava. When one thinks artificially that he becomes, he has become liberated, one with the Supreme, that is also kaitava, cheating. He's not. How he can be one with the Supreme Lord? Then how he has become insignificant creature if he's Supreme Lord? Therefore this kind of conception, that "I have become God now," this is also cheating, another cheating. He's cheating, self-deception. He's cheating himself. And what to speak of others. So this kind of oneness, or to become God, they're imperfect knowledge. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "One must know that he is finite and that the Lord is infinite. Thus it is not possible to actually become one with the Lord even if one aspires for this."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply desiring... Tvayy aviśuddha*-bhāva. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Māninaḥ. Maliya (Hindi) Ne. Not like that. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "Therefore anyone who has any desire or aspiration for satisfying his senses by becoming more and more important, either in the material sense or in the spiritual sense, cannot actually relish the really sweet taste of devotional service. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has therefore compared possessing these bhukti (material) and mukti (liberation) desires with being influenced by the black art of a witch. In both cases, one is in trouble. Bhukti means material enjoyment, and mukti means to become freed from material anxiety and to become one with the Lord. These desires are compared to being haunted by ghosts and witches, because while these aspirations for material enjoyment or spiritual oneness with the Supreme remain, no one can relish the actual transcendental taste of devotional service. A pure..."



*Prabhupāda: There is said that so long, bhukti*-mukti-spṛhā yāvat piśācī hṛdi vartate. Rūpa Gosvāmī. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi piśācī. It is... They are compared with piśācī, What is called, piśācī? Witch? What is that? Witch, what does it mean by "witch"?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One who flies around bewitching people.



Prabhupāda: What is that witch?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Puts a spell on people.



Devotee (1): Black magic.



Devotee (2): Black...



Prabhupāda: Black, yes. Witch.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Black, yes. Ghosts. Flying around.



*Prabhupāda: So bhukti*-mukti, they are considered as witch. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi, bhukti-mukti piśācī yāvat hṛdi vartate, tāvad bhakti-sukhasya. So long this piśācī will be within heart... Just like if a man is ghostly haunted, he cannot have healthy condition. He's in a troubled condition, ghostly haunted. Bhūte pavana (?). So this is bhūte pavana, bhukti-mukti. That is the... Piśācī hṛdi vartate. Tāvad bhakti-sukhasya atra katham abhyudayo amale. So long these two piśācīs, witches, are there within the heart, how he can relish the transcendental bliss of devotional service? That is not possible. Bhukti-mukti... Bhukti-mukti piśācī yāvad hṛdi vartate tāvad bhakti-sukhasyātra katham abhyudayo 'male. There is no possibility. One must be freed from these desires. Anyābhilāṣita-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Then one can relish. So long one is overpowered by bhukti-mukti-siddhi, he cannot become a devotee. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "A pure devotee never cares for liberation. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu prayed to Kṛṣṇa, 'My dear son of Nanda, I do not want any material happiness in the shape of many followers, nor immense opulence in wealth, nor any beautiful wife, nor do I want cessation from material existence. I may take birth many times, one after another, but what I pray from You is that my devotion unto You may always remain unflinching.' "



Prabhupāda: This is, I've already explained. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prayer:



na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



This is pure prayer. So pure devotional service is another great science. One has to learn it. Then his life will be successful.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730130ND.CAL

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Calcutta, January 30, 1973



Bhavānanda: (reading) "The attention of a pure devotee is so much attracted to glorification of the pastimes, name, qualities, forms, and so forth of the Lord that the devotee does not care for mukti. Śrī Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura has said, 'If I am engaged in devotional service unto You, my dear Lord, then very easily can I perceive Your presence everywhere. And as far as liberation is concerned, I think liberation stands at my door with folded hands, waiting to serve me.' "



*Prabhupāda: Yes. By chanting the mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], gradually we become cleansed of all dirty things within our heart. Thus our mind becomes purified. And in the purified condition of the mind we can think of Kṛṣṇa rightly. In this way, Kṛṣṇa becomes practically dependent on the devotees. Kṛṣṇa is the master, controller of everything, but to the pure devotee He becomes dependent. So why the pure devotee will ask for anything else? Adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. For a devotee, Kṛṣṇa is within the palms of a devotee. Ajita, jito 'py asau. Although Kṛṣṇa is not conquerable, but He likes to be conquered by His devotee. That is the position. Just like He willingly placed Himself to be conquered by Mother Yaśodā, to be conquered by Rādhārāṇī, to be conquered by His friends. Kṛṣṇa became defeated and He has to take His friend on the shoulder. Practically sometimes we see that a king keeps a joker amongst his associates, and sometimes the joker insults the king, and the king enjoys. The joker sometimes... Just like there is a famous joker, Gopāla Bon, in Bengal. So one day the king asked him, "Gopāla, what is the difference between you and an ass?" So he immediately measured the distance from the king. He said, "It is three feet only, sir. The difference is only three feet." So everyone began to laugh. And the king enjoyed that insult. Because sometimes it is required.



*So Kṛṣṇa also... Everyone praises Him in exalted position. Everyone. That is Kṛṣṇa's position*-the Supreme Lord. In Vaikuṇṭha, there is only praising. There is no such thing. But in Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa is free to accept insult from His devotee. The people do not know that, what is Vṛndāvana life. So devotees are so exalted. Rādhārāṇī orders, "Don't allow Kṛṣṇa to come here." Kṛṣṇa cannot come in. He flatters the other gopīs: "Please allow Me to go there." "No, no. There is no order. You cannot go." So Kṛṣṇa likes that. But the Māyāvādīs, they cannot understand that the Supreme Absolute Truth can be controlled by the devotee. They want to become one. But here the Vaiṣṇava, pure Vaiṣṇava, they become so exalted that there is no question of becoming one. Daivena phalati divya-kiśora-mūrtiḥ, bhaktis tvayi sthiratarā yadi bhagavān syād, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura says. Daivena phalati divya-kiśora-mūrtiḥ muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān. "Mukti, oh, she's standing with folded hands, 'What can I do for you, sir?' " Dharmārtha-kāma mokṣa samaya pratīkṣāḥ. They're just like attendants, servants. Dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. So for a devotee, the position is so exalted. They don't care for all this dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. They simply absorbed in thoughts of Kṛṣṇa. Always thinking, satato, smārtavyaḥ satato viṣṇu. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Always, twenty-four hours. Even in sleeping. That is perfection. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Go on.

Bhavānanda: "To pure devotees, therefore, liberation and spiritual emancipation are not very important things."



*Prabhupāda: That's not very important. They are, they think that mokṣa is very exalted position. Therefore Śrīdhara Swami says mokṣa, mokṣa*-vāñchā paryantaṁ nirastam. Mokṣa-vāñchā paryantaṁ nirastam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstava vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. So in Bhāgavata says that "This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is meant by the, meant for the paramahaṁsas, not for ordinary man." Ordinary man, they are after dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. First of all, nowadays, even they do not care for dharma. They're animals. Really human life begins when they take to religious principles. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. So dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa, gradually improvement, and devotional service is above mokṣa. Therefore dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2]. Kaitavo, cheating. As soon as there is some motive, that is cheating religion. But bhakti, there is no such thing, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. It is above, transcendental. Therefore it is meant for the paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. Nirmatsara. Nirmatsara means envious..., not envious. Matsaratā. Parā utkarṣaṇam asahanam (?), Śrīdhara Swami says. If in, if somebody is advancing, somebody is making improvement, his neighbors, his friends, even most intimate friends, they also become envious: "Oh, this man is advancing so much. This man is becoming so rich, so popular." Envious. So Vaiṣṇava is not envious. If somebody advances more than him, he appreciates: "Oh, he's so nice that he has advanced more than me. I could not serve Kṛṣṇa in such a nice way." That is Vaiṣṇavism. And if one is envious-"Oh, this man is going so fast. Let him, let us put some impediments on this path"-he's not Vaiṣṇava; he's hīnasya jantuḥ. He's animal. Vaiṣṇava cannot be envious. Therefore Vaiṣṇava cult... This is paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. No matsaratā, no enviousness. Satām, devotees. Devotees means he must be nirmatsara. Go on.



*Bhavānanda: "In this connection, in the Third Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Chapter Twenty-five, verse 23, Kapiladeva has advised His mother, Devahūti, as follows: 'My dear mother, My pure devotees are charmed by seeing My different forms, the beauty of My face, the structure of My body so enchanting. My laughing, My pastimes and My glance appear to them so beautiful that their minds are always absorbed in thoughts of Me, and their lives are dedicated fully unto Me. Although such people do not desire any kind of liberation or any kind of material happiness, still, I give them a place amongst My associates in the supreme abode.' "



*Prabhupāda: Therefore this arcana*-mārga, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārj anādau yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi **. This is the first duty of the spiritual master, to engage the devotees in arcana-mārga. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya. Cleansing the temple, dressing the Deity, decorating with flowers, ornaments and... So that devotees, as soon as (they) see smiling Kṛṣṇa, pleasing Kṛṣṇa, they become pleased. They become pleased by seeing Kṛṣṇa pleased. They do not want to be pleased independently. That is not devotee. Devotee's pleasure is seeing Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Kṛṣṇa is also pleased when He sees the devotees are pleased. This is competition. This is competition. Kṛṣṇa wants to see that His devotees are pleased, and the devotees want to see that Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Dui lāge hura huri (?). This is the competition going on between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī. By Rādhārāṇī, seeing the Rādhārāṇī's beauty, Kṛṣṇa becomes pleased, and Rādhārāṇī, when She sees that Kṛṣṇa is very pleased, She becomes pleased. She becomes more beautiful. And Kṛṣṇa wants to see. In this way there is competition. This is rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau [Cc. Ādi 1.5]. This is the exchange of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is the manifestation of pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa.



*So people who do not know that Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa līlā is not ordinary thing, just like human being or young girls or young boys... No. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis [Bs. 5.37]. They are display of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Cinmaya-rasa. Not jara-rasa (?). Here everything is jara-rasa. So when rascals, they take Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with girls, they think in comparison to this jara-rasa. But they do not know that this is not jara-rasa. This is ānanda-cinamaya-rasa. That they do not know. Therefore they characterize Kṛṣṇa differently. They question that "Why Kṛṣṇa danced with the gopīs?" The rascals, they do not know that gopīs are not these ordinary girls. They are cinmaya-rasa. Ahlādinī śakti, expansion of ahlādinī śakti. They should think that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman. Supreme Brahman, for realizing brahma-sukham, one gives up all material happiness. Tyāgena. And the Supreme Brahman is enjoying material happiness? No. They do not know. Therefore it is prohibited that ordinary man should not try to understand radha kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir. Because they'll commit offense. They do not know. Therefore Narottama, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings,

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala*-pīriti



*He's hankering. He's looking for days when he will be able to understand what is rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya vikṛtir. And these ordinary men, they're immediately..., as if, as if they have become more than Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā... No, you should be very much careful. This Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa līlā can be understood by the paramahaṁsa, liberated soul. We should simply worship... Now we are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. It is not directly Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa; *it is Lakṣmī*-Nārāyaṇa sevā. It is not directly... It is not possible... For conditioned soul, there is no possibility of worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. But we worship through Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore we keep Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu along with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. By the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we may be able to understand Rādhā Kṛṣṇa līlā some day in our life. Rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau, śrī-caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad dvayaṁ caikyam āptam.



*So through Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we can be, I mean to say, able, we may be able some day to understand what is Rādhā Kṛṣṇa. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇāyāvatīrṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnata ujjvala rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam, hariḥ puraṭa-sundara-dyuti... What is that verse? I forget now. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we should try to understand, we should try to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa through Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion, through the Gosvāmīs. Don't try to... The sahajiyā... Then you'll be sahajiyā-smoking bidi and doing all nonsense and singing Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā on the street and here, there. Going through hell. Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa līlā is not so cheap. Therefore they are called sahajiyā. They have made it cheap. If they want to read Bhāgavatam-immediately rasa-līlā. If they want to hear something about Kṛṣṇa-immediately rasa-līlā. Because it appears similar, just like young boy, young girls. But it is not that. It is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37], Rādhārāṇī's expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy. And the gopīs are expansion of Rādhārāṇī's body. They are not ordinary things. Go on.

*Bhavānanda: "This evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam gives assurance to the pure devotee of being elevated to association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī remarks in this connection that one who is actually attracted by the beauty of the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa or His service and whose heart, by such attraction, is always full with transcendental bliss will naturally never aspire after the liberation which is so valuable to the impersonalists."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Liberation, a devotee never... Why liberation? Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he says... Liberation means kaivalya. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. What is this liberation? It is as good as the hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Tri*-daṣa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate (Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). The persons, they are hankering after being elevated to the heavenly planet. So for a devotee, this is will o' the wisp, phantasmagoria, it has no value. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tri-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpayate indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. And the yogis... Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. Karmīs are after heavenly planet; jñānīs are after kaivalya, liberation; yogis are after controlling the senses. So senses are very dangerous. Everyone knows. Our senses are very strong. Therefore the yoga system is recommended for them who are very much in bodily concept of life. Therefore they are advised to exercise the body to come to the point of spiritual platform. But those who are above bodily concept of life, those senses have been purified.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

*hṛṣīkeṇa*-hṛṣīkeśa

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*Those who are actually engaged in pure devotion, their senses are purified. Without purified senses, you cannot approach. With ordinary material senses, you cannot approach. Therefore we have to follow the regulative principles. Regulative principle and sinful activities. Otherwise, how we can approach Kṛṣṇa? Yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpam. By the senses we commit so many sinful activities. Therefore sin, without being free from sinful activities, nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Kṛṣṇa is pavitraṁ paramam, the supreme purified. So how we can approach Kṛṣṇa without being purified? Therefore the four principle, regulative principles must be followed. Otherwise, there is no chance of advancing. There is no chance. They are relatively cooperatively helpful, chanting, but one must be willing that "I must be purified to approach Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he becomes sahajiyā. So "I am approaching Kṛṣṇa. I can smoke bidi. I can take marijuana. I can..." No. Must be purified. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "A similar passage is also there in Third Canto, Fifteenth Chapter, of the same book, wherein Uddhava addresses Lord Kṛṣṇa and says, 'My dear Lord, for persons who are engaged in Your transcendental loving service there is nothing worth obtaining from religiousness, economic development, sense gratification or liberation, although happiness from these different sources can be very easily had by them.' "



*Prabhupāda: Therefore devotee's another name is niṣkiñcana, akiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad*-bhajanonmukhasya. Niṣkiñcana. He doesn't possess anything, don't want to possess anything material. These are all material things. What are those? Sense gratification, economic development, liberation. They are all different stages of material existence. And Kṛṣṇa is not for the persons who are hankering after material possessions. Kṛṣṇa is far away. Therefore in the Kuntī-stotra in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata it is said, niṣkiñcanasya gocarāḥ: "You, Kṛṣṇa, You are understood by persons who have become niṣkiñcana." Niṣkiñcana. So niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The qualification of devotion is to become a niṣkiñcana. Means one should not try to possess anything material. He should simply try to possess Kṛṣṇa. There must be some possession. The Māyāvādī philosophy, to dispossess material things, will not help him. He must possess something positive. Otherwise he'll fall down. That is our... Because we want something. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. So we simply, we try, that "Let me become sannyāsī, niṣkiñcana." That is not possible. You must take to the service of Kṛṣṇa. Then when you are fully satisfied that "I possess Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is within my heart," then you can give up all this nonsense, kick out: "I don't want." Otherwise not possible. So the two things: Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajano..., param paro jīveṣa (?). Those who have become ni..., what is this liberation for them? Nothing. The four things, dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa. So when one takes to this shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, that is the highest dharma, topmost. That is the topmost yoga. So why he should hanker after dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]? It is so nice thing. That is the statement of Uddhava. One who has become pure devotee... One who has possessed... Svāntaḥ-sthita gadābhṛtā. He has become purified. But don't imitate. Actually see whether you are always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right.



*niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad*-bhajanonmukhasya

*pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava*-sāgarasya

viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca

*hā hanta hanta viṣa*-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu

[Cc. Madhya 11.8]



So we have to become niṣkiñcana. But niṣkiñcana we can become only when we possess Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, not possible. Go on.



Bhavānanda: "In spite of such facilities, my dear Lord, I do not aspire to achieve any such results. My only prayer is that I may have unflinching faith and devotion unto Your lotus feet."



*Prabhupāda: This is the only thing. If we have got unflinching faith and devotion to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then we can automatically become niṣkiñcana, liberated, developed in economic condition. That is not important thing for a devotee. They come automatically. Yoga*-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Kṛṣṇa says. Why he should try for economic development? Kṛṣṇa personally comes. "You want this. Take it." That is devotee. Why he should hankering after economic development? No. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches: na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. There is no need of hankering. Kṛṣṇa knows what he requires, "How My devotee will be satisfied." Kṛṣṇa knows... If Kṛṣṇa sees that this devotee has got little desire for some material enjoyment, Kṛṣṇa will give.



Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest to worship the Lord, for getting the kingdom of his father or better than that. So although when Dhruva Mahārāja saw the Lord he said svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yā..., "I, I don't want anything. I am now fully satisfied", still Kṛṣṇa gave him Dhruvaloka. Because he desired: "No, you enjoy. Then you come back again." So there is no need of asking any... Kṛṣṇa knows, as the father knows, the mother knows what is the need of my child; Therefore pure devotee never asks from Kṛṣṇa anything except His service. Mama janmani janamanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī. "Without any cause let me be engaged in Your service." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfection. Go on.

Bhavānanda: "A similar passage appears in the Third Canto, 25th Chapter, 31st verse, wherein Kapiladeva instructs His mother and says: 'My Dear Mother, devotees whose hearts are always filled in the service of My lotus feet, and who are prepared to do anything for my satisfaction, especially those who assemble together to understand My qualities, pastimes and form, and thus glorify Me congregationally and derive transcendental pleasure therefrom, such fortunate devotees never desire to become one with Me.' "



Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on.



Bhavānanda: " 'And not to speak of becoming one with Me, if they are offered a post like Mine in My abode, or opulence like Mine, or even personal association with Me with similar bodily features, they refuse to accept because they are satisfied simply by being engaged in My devotional service.' "



*Prabhupāda: Yes. All kinds of mukti, sarūpya*-mukti, sa, sa... Sāyujya-mukti, no devotee desires, kicked out. There is no question of sāyujya-mukti. But other four kinds of muktis, sārūpya-mukti, sālokya-mukti, these muktis are desired by the inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭheśvara. Especially in South India, they worship the Vaiṣṇava, Veṅkateṣa. Veṅkateṣa means Vaikuṇṭheṣa, the Lord of Vaikuṇṭha. So the, the associates, the devotees of the Lord in Vaikuṇṭha, they desire sārūpya-mukti, to have similar feature of the body, four-handed. Viṣṇudūta. And sālokya, the same as Nārāyaṇa is living in Vaikuṇṭha, they also live in Vaikuṇṭha. This is also in the bhakti-mārga. But a, a higher advanced devotee, even he does not want all these things. Even... Wherever Kṛṣṇa puts him, that's all right. It doesn't matter. Yathā tathā vidadhātu lampato mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ. You can, whatever You like, can do. It doesn't matter. I don't want any exchange. I don't want to do business with You. That is pure devotee. Go on.



*Bhavānanda: "In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Fourth Canto, 9th Chapter, 10th verse, King Dhruva says, My dear Lord, the transcendental pleasure derived by meditation upon Your lotus feet, which is enjoyed by the pure devotees, cannot be approached by the transcendental pleasure derived by the impersonalists through self-realization. So how can the fruitive workers who at most can desire to promotion to the higher, heavenly planets understand You, and how can they be described as enjoying a happiness similar to the devotees' happiness.' "



Prabhupāda: So there are three kinds of happinesses described, material happiness, spiritual happiness and devotional happiness. Three kinds of happinesses are very nicely described in this chapter.



Thank you very much. (pause) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana begins) (end)



730131ND.CAL

The *Nectar of Devotion*

-

Calcutta, January 31, 1973



*Mādhavānanda: (reading:) "Chapter Four. Devotional Service Surpasses All Liberation. How much a devotee is seriously attached to the devotional service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead can be understood from the statement of Mahārāja Pṛthu (Ādi*-rāja), which is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fourth Canto, Twentieth Chapter, 21st verse. He prays to the Supreme Personality of Godhead thusly: 'My dear Lord, if, after taking liberation, I have no chance of hearing the glories of Your Lordship, glories chanted by pure devotees from the core of their hearts in praise of Your lotus feet, and if I have no chance for this honey of transcendental bliss, then I shall never ask for liberation of this so-called spiritual emancipation. I shall simply always pray unto Your Lordship that You may give me millions of tongues and millions of ears so that I can constantly chant and hear of Your transcendental glories.' "



*Prabhupāda: Surpasses all kind of liberation. There are five kinds of liberation: sāyujya, sārūpya, sālokya, sāmīpya. But a pure devotee does not want any of such liberations. Dhiyamānāṁ na ghṛnanti (?). Even liberation is offered. Kṛṣṇa offers liberation very easily. But Kṛṣṇa's personal touch is so sublime that Kṛṣṇa is carrying order of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira is sending letter, handed over to Kṛṣṇa, and He's carrying to Duryodhana. So Nārada was very much surprised that this stage of dependent on devotee is very, very difficult to achieve. To achieve liberation is not very difficult, but when Kṛṣṇa becomes dependent on the order of a devotee, that is very difficult to achieve. So therefore pure devotional service surpasses all kinds of liberation. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also teaches, mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. Liberation means no more birth. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, mama janmani janmani. Birth after birth. But the, a devotee does not want anything of the material things. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. So this pure devotional service is a different subject matter. Dharmaḥ projjhita*-kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2]. Therefore Vyāsadeva says that all kinds of motivated religious system is rejected from devotional service. Projjhita-kaitavaḥ. Kaitava means motivated. In devotional service, there is no motive-simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. That is pure devotional service. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "The impersonalists desire to merge into the existence of the Supreme, but without keeping their individuality, they have no chance of hearing and chanting the glories of the Supreme Lord. Because they have no idea of the transcendental form of the Supreme Lord, there is no chance of their chanting and hearing of His transcendental activities."



*Prabhupāda: The impersonalists take it, this chanting, as means to attain liberation. They do not know that the chanting is the, real chanting begins after liberation. Not that by chanting one reaches liberation. No. That's not a fact. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. Satatam. Satatam means after liberation also. This chanting will continue after liberation also. Not that after liberation chanting will finish. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, satatam. Satatam means after liberation also. Before liberation and after liberation. Therefore it is nitya. Nitya means it does not stop, never stops. Satataṁ kīrtayananto māṁ yatantaś ca, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So the, when you actually go to Goloka Vṛndāvana, the same chanting will go on before Kṛṣṇa. Chanting will never stop. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "In other words, unless one is already beyond liberation, one cannot relish the transcendental glories of the Lord, nor can one understand the transcendental form of the Lord.



*"A similar statement is found in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto, Fourteenth Chapter, 43rd verse. Śukadeva Gosvāmī addresses Parīkṣit Mahārāja there and says, 'The great soul of King Bhārata was so much attached to the service of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa that he very easily gave up his lordship over the earthly planet and his affection for his children, society, friends, royal opulence and beautiful wife. He was so very lucky that the goddess of fortune was pleased to offer him all kinds of material concessions, but he never accepted any of these material opulences.' Śukadeva Gosvāmī eulogizes this behavior of King Bhārata very highly. He says, 'Any person whose heart is attracted by the transcendental qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Madhusūdana, not to speak of material opulences, does not care even for that liberation which is aspired to by many great sages.' "

*Prabhupāda: This Mahārāja Bhārata was the son of Ṛṣabhadeva and under whose name, after whose name this planet is called Bhārata*-varsa. This, the same Bhārata Mahārāja, he left this world at very young age, twenty-four years. Young wife, children, kingdom, everything he left. Then he developed some attachment for a young deer. So he had to take the birth in the shape of a deer. The next birth he remained silent, Jaḍa Bhārata. So (the) Jaḍa Bhārata story is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Very enlightening. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "In the *Bhāgavatam*, Sixth Canto, Eleventh Chapter, 23rd verse, there is a similar statement by Vṛtrāsura, who addresses the Lord as follows: 'My dear Lord, by leaving Your transcendental service I...' "



*Prabhupāda: Just see. Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he's presenting this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, quoting from so many scriptures. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. They were very, very expert in studying śāstra very scrutinizingly. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Why they studied so much? Because they wanted to establish sad-dharma, real type of religion, bhakti. They are quoting, therefore, from so many, nānā-śāstra. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. That is welfare activity. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. These people are trying to give some service to the daridra-nārāyaṇa, but they do not know actually what is jīve dayā (?). This is jīve daya. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. They should know things with reference to the authorized scripture. Not that I manufacture some words, according to my whims. That is not service to the hu... That is misleading, disservice. Because, if they are kept in ignorance, what is the value of such service. Here is (service). He does not manufacture anything. He's giving immediately evidence, reference to the authorized scripture. That is the way of presenting things. Not that "I think," "In my opinion." What you are? But in, in Vaiṣṇava philosophy, even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He was Kṛṣṇa Himself, whenever He spoke something, immediately He gave evidence from the śāstra. Even Kṛṣṇa. While He was speaking Bhagavad-gītā, He also gave reference to the Vedānta-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ [Bg. 13.5]. He was giving reference to the Brahmā-sūtra. That is the way of authorized presentation. Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Personality of Godhead, but He was also giving reference. He also said, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ [Bg. 16.23]. We cannot give up śāstras. If we give up śāstra, then Kṛṣṇa says, sa siddhiṁ sāvāpnoti na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. If we give up śāstra, if we manufacture our own words, own śāstras, these are all rascaldom. That should not be accepted. So here you see Rūpa Gosvāmī's writing. The śloka, number, Canto, everything is given. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: " 'My dear Lord, by leaving Your transcendental service I may be promoted to the planet called Dhruva*-loka (the polestar), or I may gain lordship over all the planetary systems of the universe. But I do not aspire to this. Nor do I wish the mystic perfections of yoga practice, nor do I aspire for spiritual emancipation. All I wish for, my Lord, is Your association and transcendental service eternally.'



*"This statement is confirmed by Lord Śiva in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Seventeenth Chapter, 52nd verse, wherein Lord Śiva addresses Satī thusly: 'My dear Satī, persons who are devoted to Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, are not afraid of anything. If they are elevated to the higher planetary systems of if they get liberation from material contamination, or if they are pushed down in the hellish condition of life-or, in fact, in any situation whatever*-they are not afraid of anything. Simply because they have taken shelter of the lotus feet of Nārāyaṇa, for them any position in the material world is as good as another.' "

Prabhupāda:



*nārāyaṇa*-paraḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

svargāpavarga narakeṣv

api tulyārtha darśinaḥ

[SB 6.17.28]



Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: "There is a similar statement by Indra, the King of heaven, in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Eighteenth Chapter, 52nd verse. There Indra addresses his mother in this manner: 'My dear Mother (Aditi), persons who have given up all kinds of desire and are simply engaged in devotional service to the Lord know what is actually their self-interest. Such persons are actually serving their self-interests and are considered first-class experts in the matter of advancing to the perfectional stage of life.' "



*Prabhupāda: That is... Everyone is after his self*-interest, but real self-interest is to approach Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti surayaḥ. And in the Bhāgavata it is said: na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Svārtha-gati. Our real self-interest is in Viṣṇu. They do not know. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. So one who has fixed up to render service to Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa... Viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ nānyat tat-tosā-kāraṇam. So this is the ultimate goal of life, to approach Viṣṇu. And the origin of Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8], Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore He's origin of Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva. Sarvasya. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Devānām begins... The devas, demigods, begins from Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, then other demigods. So Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "In the Seventh Canto of the *Bhāgavatam*, Sixth Chapter, 23rd verse, Mahārāja Prahlāda says, 'My dear friends who are born into atheistic families, if you can please the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, then there is nothing more rare in this world. In other words, if the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is pleased with you, then any desire that you may have within the core of your heart can be fulfilled without any doubt. As such, what is the use of elevating yourself by the results of fruitive activities, which are automatically achieved in all events by the modes of material nature?' "



Prabhupāda: Yes. In the śāstra it is said:



*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



*Akāma. There are three classes of men. Akāma, without kāma, without any desire, that is devotees. And sarva*-kāma means the karmīs; *and mokṣa*-kāma, the jñānīs. So whatever you may be, you can engage yourself in devotional service.



*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



Your desires will be fulfilled. Even if you are thinking like karmī, still you can take to devotional service. Your desires will be fulfilled. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Whatever you desire, He'll fulfill. Go on.



Mādhavānanda: " 'And what is the use for you of spiritual emancipation or liberation from material bondage? If you are always engaged in chanting the glories of the Supreme Lord and always relishing the nectar of the lotus feet of the Lord, then there is no necessity for any of these.' By this statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja it is clearly understood that one who takes pleasure in chanting and hearing the transcendental glories of the Lord has already surpassed all kinds of material benediction, including the results of pious activities, pious fruitive activities, sacrifices and even liberation from material bondage.



"Similarly, in the same Seventh Canto, Eighth Chapter, 39th verse, when the demigods are offering prayers to Lord Nṛsiṁha, Indra, the King of heaven, says, 'O Supreme One, these demons talk of our share of participation in the performance of ritualistic sacrifices, but simply by Your appearance as Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva You have saved us from terrible fears. Actually our shares in the sacrificial performances are due to You only because You are the Supreme Enjoyer of all sacrifices. You are the Supersoul of every living entity, and therefore You are the actual owner of everything. Long were our hearts always filled with fear of this demon, Hiraṇyakaśipu. But You are so kind towards us that by killing him, You have removed that fear from within our hearts and have given us the chance to place Your Lordship within our hearts again. For persons who are engaged in the transcendental loving service of Your Lordship, all the opulences which were taken away from us by the demons are counted as nothing. Devotees do not even care for liberation, not to speak of these material opulences. Actually we are not enjoyers of the fruits of sacrifices. Our only duty is to always be engaged in Your service, for You are the enjoyer of everything.' "

Prabhupāda: Go on.



Mādhavānanda: "The purport of this statement by Indra is that, beginning from Brahmā down to the insignificant ant, no living entities are meant for enjoying the material opulences. They are simply meant for offering everything to the supreme proprietor, the Personality of Godhead. By doing so, they automatically enjoy the benefit. The example can be cited again of the different parts of the body collecting foodstuffs and cooking them so that ultimately a meal may be offered to the stomach. After it has gone to the stomach, all the parts of the bodies..., body equally enjoy the benefit of the meal. So similarly everyone's duty is to satisfy the Supreme Lord and then automatically everyone will become satisfied."



Prabhupāda: That is called yajña. Yajñārthe karma. Go on.



*Mādhavānanda: "A similar verse is found in the Eighth Canto, Third Chapter, of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, verse 20. Gajendra says there, 'My dear Lord, I have no experience in the transcendental bliss derived from Your devotional service, so therefore I have asked from You some favor. But I know that persons who are pure devotees and have, by serving the lotus feet of great souls, become freed from all material desires, are always merged in the ocean of transcendental bliss and, as such, are always satisfied simply by glorifying Your auspicious characteristics. For them there is nothing else to aspire to or pray for.'



"In the Ninth Canto of the *Bhāgavatam*, Fourth Chapter, 49th verse, the Lord of Vaikuṇṭha replies to Durvāsā Muni thusly: 'My pure devotees are always satisfied being engaged in devotional service, and therefore they do not aspire even after the five liberated stages, which are (1) to be one with Me, (2) to achieve residence on My planet, (3) to have My opulences, (4) to possess bodily features similar to Mine, and (5) to gain personal association with Me. So, when they are not interested even in these liberated positions, you can know how little they care for material opulences or material liberation.'

*"There is a similar prayer by the nāga*-patnī (wives of the Kāliya serpent), in the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Sixteenth Chapter, verse 33. The nāga-patnī say there, 'My dear Lord, the dust of Your lotus feet is very wonderful. Any person who is fortunate enough to achieve this dust does not care for heavenly planets, lordship over all the planetary systems, the mystic perfections of yoga or even liberation from the material existence. In other words, anyone who adores the dust of Your lotus feet does not care a fig for all other perfectional stages.' "

*Prabhupāda: This was spoken by the nāga*-patnī when Kāliya was being punished by Lord Kṛṣṇa, kicking over his head. So this prayer was offered, that "For Your dust of Your lotus feet, so many great sages are hankering after, and they do not care for even liberation, simply to get Your, that dust of the lotus feet. We do not know how much this fortunate snake is, that he's automatically getting the dust. You are kicking on his head. We do not know what did he do in his previous life that he's so fortunate."



All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritamṛta Lectures





750325CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.1

-

Māyāpur, March 25, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*vande gurūn īśa*-bhaktān

īśam īśāvatārakān

*tat*-prakāśāṁś ca tac-chaktīḥ

*kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-saṁjñakam

[Cc. Ādi 1.1]



*Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa. That was observed by Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. He composed one hundred verses praising the glories of Lord Caitanya, but because Caitanya Mahāprabhu was playing the part of a devotee, He threw away the ślokas, because "This is not for Me." That was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's humbleness. But the devotees know that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa combination of Śrī Caitanya... Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu means Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa combined. In the beginning there is Kṛṣṇa, and then Kṛṣṇa divided into two, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. And then again combined, that is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api (bhuvi purā) deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad*-dvayaṁ caikyam āptam...

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*So the Gosvāmī's siddhānta, that Kṛṣṇa is one. There is no rivalry with Kṛṣṇa. God is one. Eka-brahma dvitīya nāsti. There cannot be many Gods. So when God, Kṛṣṇa, wants to enjoy His pleasure potency, that is Rādhārāṇī. So He manifests Himself, manifests His energy... His energy and He, there is no difference. Śakti-śaktimator abhedaḥ. The śāstra says śakti and the śaktimat-means one who possesses the śakti (śakti means power, potency)*-they are equal. There is no difference. Just like the sun. Sun is the powerful, and the sunshine is the power. So there is heat in the sun and there is heat also in the sunshine. There is light in the sun and there is light in the sunshine also. Therefore qualitatively they are one so far heat and light is concerned. But the temperature of the sun and the temperature of the sunshine may be different. May be not. Actually there is difference. This is the basic principle of all philosophies. Acintya-bhedābheda. Acintya means inconceivable, bheda means different, and abheda means nondifferent. The whole situation... The one is there, God, but He has expanded Himself in different way. Eko bahu syām.



*So that is described here. Kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-saṁjñakam. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He has expanded Himself as gurūn. The guru, the spiritual master, he's also Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **. In all the śāstras, guru is accepted as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena. Sākṣād means directly. Just like you offer your devotion, respects, to guru. So that respect is offered to Kṛṣṇa. Guru also does not think himself that he is Kṛṣṇa, but he collects the devotional services of the disciples to offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. We cannot approach Kṛṣṇa directly. We should approach through guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. That is the injunction of the śāstra, that one should approach the guru who can transfer the service from the disciple to the Supreme Person. So... Therefore the first offering is guru, vande gurūn. Then guru creates many devotees. Guru's business is to canvass on behalf of Supreme Lord. That is guru's business. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], so, "You give up all material, engage..." Sarva-dharmān means in the material world we have created so many so-called duties. This is our material disease. People are interested in material engagements and they have created different varieties of engagements. Sociology, communism, and this "ism," that "ism," philanthropism, altruism, internationalism, nationalism-many, many duties they have created. That is all material. Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy... (children crying) Stop that children. Out of His causeless mercy, He comes, He descends. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Glānir, this is glānir. Human life is meant for one thing, athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Supreme Absolute Truth. But instead of doing that, they have created so many "isms." That is their misfortune.

*Real business is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life, nature, gives us the opportunity to inquire about the Absolute Truth. We have got the intelligence. The cats and dogs, they have no intelligence to inquire about the Absolute Truth. The trees, the plants, the aquatics, the animals, the beasts, the uncivilized man*-so many, 8,400,000 forms and species of life. Out of that, the civilized men, the Aryans... Ārya. Ārya means the person who has got godly qualification. This is the meaning of Āryan. Āryan, advanced. Āryan does not mean godless society. They are non-Āryans. Real Āryan means... Because we are part and parcel of God, naturally we have got, in minute quantity, the qualities of God. That is natural. But on account of our material association, those qualifications are covered now by upādhi, by various designations. This is our material disease. Material disease means... Just like a gold is covered by dirty, dirty things. Similarly, we are actually gold, because part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are a small Kṛṣṇa, very small, but we are also the same quality. But it is covered. This is our disease. And these coverings are going on in different names-socialism, communism, and this "ism"-so many. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am white," "I am black"-these are all designations.

So it is the business of the guru to clear up these designations, dirty things. Therefore, vande gurūn īśam. Guru, first offering because he is the agent of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said that "You give up all these designative dharma; *take to real dharma." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. "That is your real business." But even Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa does not fail... But Kṛṣṇa does not force. So even upon the request of Kṛṣṇa we do not give up our designation. This is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and nobody practically, except the Pāṇḍavas and few other devotees, nobody took it seriously. And what to speak of now. They are talking of Bhagavad-gītā, scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, but without Kṛṣṇa. That is their business. These demons, they are preaching Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Nobody preaches about Kṛṣṇa. Nobody says what Kṛṣṇa wants. Sarva-dharmān parityajya. Kṛṣṇa wants this, but they are misinterpreting in different ways and diverting the attention of the people most foolishly, that... In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is the center. So this is going on. You know, you are coming all from foreign countries. Bhagavad-gītā is popular in your country, at least amongst the scholars and theosophists and theologists. Going on, for the last two hundred years at least. But nobody understood Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Now for the last, say, five or ten years, because we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as it is, it has become very easy for you to accept it. Unadulterated Kṛṣṇa. Before this, everything was presented adulterated. Therefore there was no effect.

*So if you push on this movement, unadulterated Kṛṣṇa, it will go on. It will go on. And as soon as you adulterate Kṛṣṇa, it will not go on. It will not be effective. You may be very good scholar or very good politician or this or that, but you'll never understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. If you want to pollute Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will never be revealed to you. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa you have taken the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. It is great fortune for you. So do not adulterate Kṛṣṇa. That is my request. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa Himself taught... That was also difficult. Then Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya (is) teaching us how to approach Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya means spiritual, living, and carita means character. So Caitanya-caritāmṛta means that the supreme living force, Kṛṣṇa. The living force is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we contradict the so-called scientific theory that life has come from chemicals, matter. No. We are trying our best. We have engaged our scientist students. They have already..., one student has already written one small book, The Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and we are going to publish another book. I have given instruction to the scientist students. What is the heading of that?

Devotees: Life Comes From Life.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, Life Comes From Life. That is the fact. These modern so*-called scientific theory that life comes from matter, that is not fact. Because our original person, Kṛṣṇa, said, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. Aham, this aham word is applicable to a person, person. And person means living force. So Caitanya-caritāmṛta means that living force is a person, and His caritra, His characteristic, this is Caitanya. And that is amṛta. Amṛta means not dead matter. Mṛta means dead, and amṛta means not dead, living force. So he is living force; his characteristics are also living force; *and they are, because living force, they are amṛta. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We have got experience what is living force and what is dead matter. That we have got experience. And that is further explained by Kṛṣṇa, that living force means na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], na jāyate na mriyate kadācit. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that living force is not finished even after the annihilation of this body. Very nice statement by Kṛṣṇa. We can understand living... In the life, when we are alive, the body is moving, we can understand what is living force. And we can understand further when the body does not move*-that difference, why the body was moving and why the body is not now moving. If we simply study this difference of position we can understand what is living force. It is not very difficult. Simply we have to understand, "Now this living force is gone out of this body; *therefore the body is no longer moving and it is a dead matter." This is this... So this Caitanya*-caritāmṛta means we are talking of the living force, not of the dead matter. We should always remember. So the guru belongs to that living force. And Īśa, Īśa means controller. So everyone, that living force. Gurūn, īśa, īśa-bhaktān, īśa-bhaktān and īśam. So they are all living force. The Lord, His devotee, His representative, everyone, they belong to the spiritual platform, living force. Caitanya-saṁjñakam. Caitanya means living. That personification of all living forces is Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. People mistake Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu because by misfortune they understand Kṛṣṇa Caitanya as a devotee or just like so-called sādhu or yogi, like that. That is mistake. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya means the original living force, Kṛṣṇa.



*So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, he understood Him. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, he understood Him. Similarly, the followers of Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, and all the Gosvāmīs, they will understand Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And one who understands or follows the path enunciated by Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, for them Kṛṣṇa is very easily obtained. This is called Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. If you follow Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is described by Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī. Purāṇa-puruṣaḥ, I just now forget the verse. Yes:

*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the same Kṛṣṇa, Purāṇa*-puruṣaḥ. Ādyaṁ Purāṇa-puruṣaḥ. Purāṇa-puruṣa means Kṛṣṇa, the original Personality of Godhead, very old. Purāṇa means very old. So, vairāgya-vidyā-śikṣārtham. Because we are suffering here on account of so many designations, so Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to purify us from all these nonsense designations. That is called vairāgya-vidyā. Rāga means attachment. So... And virāga. This false attachment we have to give up. That is practically being manifested by practical life, how to love Kṛṣṇa, how to approach Him. That is the characteristic of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And therefore He is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32]. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam: He belongs to the same category, Kṛṣṇa. Or He is describing Kṛṣṇa always. His only business is to describe Kṛṣṇa. But His complexion is not Kṛṣṇa, akṛṣṇa. Akṛṣṇa. Akṛṣṇa means white. Because Kṛṣṇa had many colors. One of the colors was pīta, golden, golden avatāra. So, tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. This sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam is described here, that gurūn, īśam, īśa-bhaktān, īśāvatārakān tat-prakāśāṁś ca tat-chaktiḥ. This is sāṅgopāṅga.



*So study this Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Now we have got this English edition, very elaborately described, following the footsteps of our Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda. So there is no such edition of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, very elaborately described. But it can be understood by the advanced student. It can be... And so... Advanced, you can, anyone, you can become advanced. Advanced means at least one should understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you simply understand these two words, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you are advanced. It is not very difficult. Everything, all Vedic literature, they are meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. So if you simply understand... What is that understanding? That Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We have written in our Kṛṣṇa book, "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." If you become convinced, then your study of Vedas-finished. Tepus tapas te sasnur āryā [SB 3.33.7]. Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa... What is that understanding? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, there is no more superior authority or person or truth than Myself." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. These few words, if you simply understand... Blindly or openly, it doesn't matter. Because if you touch fire, either blindly or openly, it will act. It will act. It is not that because I blindly accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, that will not act. No, it will act. Even if you have accepted Kṛṣṇa blindly, it will act. Because the thing is the same. Either you accept in open eyes or blind eyes. So similarly, if you accept this theory*-it is not theory; *this is fact, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead*-these few words, then you are advanced student, immediately. Take it from me, that simply this conviction, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," then you are advanced student in spiritual life.

*So all these persons associated with Kṛṣṇa, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, and Gadādhara and Śrīvāsa, all of them, they are one. One in this sense, they are all interested how to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's trying personally, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu, Śrīvāsa, Gadādhara, they are trying to help. So..., and to approach all these five supreme persons, you require the help of guru. Therefore the guru is offered first the respectful prayers, vande gurūn. And gurūn, bahu*-vacana, plural number, that many gurus. But they are not many; *they are one, guru*-tattva. Just like Kṛṣṇa has many forms, but that does not mean Kṛṣṇa is different. No. Kṛṣṇa is one. Similarly, guru, there may be many gurus, it doesn't matter, but their philosophy must be one: to teach everyone that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there may be thousands of gurus, but the guru's business is to teach the disciple that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the test of guru. If guru is teaching something else, nonsense, then he is not guru. Gurur na sa syāt. Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. A brāhmaṇa, he is very expert in his business, in Vedic culture, Vedic mantras, tantras. That is the test of the brāhmaṇa, that he is very learned. So ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. Viśārada, very expert. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt. But if he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa or if he's not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot become guru. Ṣaḍ-vaiṣṇavaḥ śvapaco guruḥ. But one person who is coming from the family of dog-eaters... The dog-eaters, they are considered to be the lowest of the human beings. So, śva-paca, śva means dog, and paca means eater or cooker. So śvapaca, even a person is coming from the śvapaca family, and if he's a Vaiṣṇava, if he's a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he can become guru. On the other side, even born in a brāhmaṇa family and very expert in Vedic ritualistic performances, mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, he cannot become guru if he does not understand Kṛṣṇa. So therefore guru is very important because he has accepted Kṛṣṇa... Tattva-darśibhiḥ, he has seen the truth. So therefore guru is first offered... This is the test of guru. Guru does not become Kṛṣṇa himself, but he canvasses door to door to induce that "You become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." This is sign of guru. Vande gurūn īśa-bhaktān. Īśa-bhaktān. Then we shall describe later on.

Thank you very much. (end)



750326CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.2

-

Māyāpur, March 26, 1975



Pradyumna: "I offer my respectful obeisances unto Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda, who are like the sun and moon. They have arisen simultaneously on the horizon of Gauḍa to dissipate the darkness of ignorance and thus wonderfully bestow benediction upon all."



Prabhupāda:



*vande śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-

nityāndandau sahoditau

gauḍodaye puṣpavantau

*citrau śandau tamo*-nudau

[Cc. Ādi 1.2]



So yesterday we discussed the first verse,



*(vande) gurūn īśa*-bhaktān

īśam īśāvatārakān

*tat*-prakāśāṁś ca tac-chaktiḥ

*kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-saṁjñakam

[Cc. Ādi 1.1]



*Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, He has got manyfold expansion. The first expansion is prakāśa, svayaṁ*-prakāśa, Balarāma. And Nityānanda is Balarāma. Vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-sūta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi. We have to understand from the mahājana, Narottama das Ṭhākura. Sometimes some foolish people interpret Nityānanda as expansion of Rādhārāṇī, but that is not the fact. Nityānanda is Balarāma. We have to know from mahājana. We cannot manufacture our own idea. That is blasphemy, sahajiyā. Yata mat tata pat. These things are not accepted by mahājana. Mahājana means who follows the previous mahājana. This is the system. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu strictly followed this principle. Kṛṣṇa also recommended evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. We have to receive knowledge through the disciplic succession. Mahājana-gataḥ. You cannot manufacture. This concoction has killed the spiritual life of India. "You can think any way; *I can think in my way"*-that is not at all scientific. You cannot think "Two plus two equal to three" or "five." Two plus two equal to four. You cannot think otherwise. (people talking in background) (aside:) Ask them to stop.



*So Nityānanda means prakāśa, svayaṁ-prakāśa, Balarāma. Balarāma is, I mean to say, presenting Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Balarāma is guru-tattva. Guru is representative of Balarāma, of Nityānanda, Guru Nityānanda, because He is exhibiting Kṛṣṇa. He is presenting Kṛṣṇa, prakāśa. Just like when there is sunshine you can see everything very correctly. That is called prakāśa. In the darkness everything is covered. At night we cannot see, but during daytime, when there is prakāśa, illumination, then we can see everything. So Nityānanda Prabhu is Balarāma. Balarāma is prakāśa-tattva. He's manifesting Kṛṣṇa. Balarāma hoila nitāi. So vande śrī... Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead, and next, Nityānanda, or, yes, Nityānanda, is exhibiting Him. When Nityānanda was preaching in Bengal, He first of all delivered the Jagāi and Mādhāi. That was his first business. He showed how to serve Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya means Kṛṣṇa Himself. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādha-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa combined together is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. And Nityānanda is exhibiting Kṛṣṇa Caitanyadeva.

*So how one can exhibit Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that is... By His personal example Nityānanda Prabhu has given us lesson. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was sending His devotees to preach and Nityānanda Prabhu was doing that, He used to go with Haridāsa Ṭhākura to preach on the street, home to home. So when they saw there was a big crowd on the street, so Nityānanda Prabhu inquired from the people, "Why there is so many people assembled?" He was informed that "There are two gundas, rogues. They are creating some trouble." The gundas, their business is to create trouble, that's all. Every one of us we know, especially at the present moment in Bengal. Yes. This is due to lack of preaching of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nityānanda Prabhu is not given the chance. Nityānanda Prabhu is very eager to preach, but He's not given chance. Actually, those who are proud of becoming descendants of Nityānanda Prabhu... In Bengal there is a family, they say that they are descendants from Nityānanda Prabhu. So apart from controversy, even accepting that they are descendants from Nityānanda Prabhu, their business is also to act like Nityānanda Prabhu. So that business, what is that business? That is described by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, mahājana, pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari*-nāme uddhārilo, ta'ra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi. This is the business of Nityānanda Prabhu along with Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-sūta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi.

*So here Kṛṣṇa Caitanya and Nityānanda, Their identification is Lord Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. Now, in the Kṛṣṇa incarnation, these two brothers were engaged as cowherd boys and friends of the gopīs, sons of mother Yaśodā and Nanda Mahārāja. That is actual life in Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma, They are village cowherds boy. That is the early age history of Kṛṣṇa*-Balarāma. And Their another business, when They went to Mathurā They killed Kaṁsa and the wrestlers, and then again, when They went to Dvārakā, They had to fight with so many demons. But Their childhood life, up to sixteenth year, They were in Vṛndāvana, happy life, simply love. That is paritrāṇāya sādhūnām [Bg. 4.8]. Sādhus, devotees, they are always anxious to see Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Their associates. They are always very much aggrieved on account of separation. To give them rejuvenation of life, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma play Their childhood days in Vṛndāvana. And out of Vṛndāvana, beginning from Mathurā up to Dvārakā and other places, the business was vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām: killing. So They have got two businesses, one for pacifying the devotees, and the other is to kill the demons. Of course, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma, They are Absolute Truth. There is no difference between killing and loving. They... Absolute. Those who were killed, you know, they were also delivered from this material bondage.

*Now these same two brothers have again descended as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya*-Nityānanda. Sahoditau: simultaneously They have appeared. Not that one is appeared, another is not there. No. Both of Them, sahoditau. And They are compared with the sun and moon. The business of sun and moon is to dissipate darkness. The sun rises during daytime, and the moon rises at night. But this sun and moon, wonderful sun and moon, citrau, They have appeared together. But the business is the same, tamo-nudau. Business is to dissipate darkness, because we are in darkness. We, anyone who is in this material world, he's in darkness. Darkness means ignorant, no knowledge. They are mostly animals. "Why they are animals, so civilized men, so well-dressed and university education degrees? Why they are in darkness?" Yes, they are in darkness. "What is the proof?" The proof is that they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the proof. That is their darkness. Ask anybody, item by item, that... Ask, what do they know about Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is ignorant, dark. So that is the proof. How this is proof? Now, Kṛṣṇa says. We do not say; *Kṛṣṇa says. How does He say? Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā [Bg. 7.15]. Apahṛta-jñānā means that although they have got university degrees, although they are called civilized, advanced in material civilization, but māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Their degrees, because they do not know Kṛṣṇa thoroughly and therefore do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, which Kṛṣṇa is canvassing personally, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja... [Bg. 18.66]. He's personally canvassing. Because these rascals and fools, they are in darkness-they do not know what is the goal of life*-Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He is canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the philosophy. So still, they are not doing so. Why? Narādhamāḥ. Because the lowest of the mankind, narādhama. How they have become narādhama? Now, duṣkṛtina, always committing sinful life. What is sinful life? Illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. Because they are addicted to these things they are duṣkṛtina and narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And whatever knowledge they are acquiring by so-called education, that is false knowledge. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This is the position.

*So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya and Nityānanda, They came, descended again, being merciful, same Kṛṣṇa. Vrajendra*-nandana yei, Śacī-sūta hoilo sei. Same Kṛṣṇa. In a different way they canvassed the same principle. (aside:) You can sit down there. You are sleeping. Don't sleep. Don't show that sleeping. Go there. So this is the darkness. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared to drive away this darkness-same Kṛṣṇa, the same Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's preaching and Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. There is no difference. The difference is that Kṛṣṇa, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is demanding that "You rascal, you surrender unto Me. You are suffering so much. You are rascal. I am your father. I want to see you happy; *therefore I have come. Surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo [Bg. 18.66]. "You are suffering on account of your duṣkṛti, all sinful activities. Whatever you are doing, all sinful activities." Except Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities, whatever you do, that is sinful activity. But they have been summarized into four principles. The whole sinful activities of the world, they have been summarized in four lines: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is the summary. But otherwise, of these activities there are many, many branches. But if you cut the root of sinful activities*-this illicit sex and gambling and meat-eating-then generally, automatically other sinful activities will go. Therefore we who are propagating Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are just requesting that you give up this sinful life. Otherwise you will be implicated again.

*What is that implication? Implication is that your sinful life will get you next body which is also sinful. And again you suffer. Suffering there is. As soon as you get material body, there is suffering. It may be a king's body or it may be a cobbler's body, it doesn't matter, the suffering is there. But because these people are māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā, they are accepting suffering as pleasure. This is called māyā. He's suffering, but he is thinking it is a good pleasure. Just like the pig. He's eating stool, and he's thinking he's enjoying life. This is called ignorant. He does not know that he's suffering. Māyā has given his body to suffer, but even in the pig's body, he's thinking that is enjoying life. This is called māyā. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. This is called illusion. Illusion. Everyone in this material world, they are suffering in different grades. Just like in the prison house there are different grades of prisoner: first class, second class, third class. But if the first-class prisoner thinks they are enjoying life, that is ignorance. He should know that he's in the prison house. In the prison house where is there enjoyment? It is all suffering. Maybe first-class suffering, (laughter) but it is suffering. So they are all in the darkness, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda Prabhu appeared to dissipate, tamo-nudau, to dissipate this darkness of the whole human society. That is Their kindness. They are...

*So Nityānanda Prabhu, being prakāśā, He is manifesting Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He's canvassing the same thing. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is canvassing to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness through the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu and Their other assistants is easier, easier. Therefore we see practically, we have taught our disciples to chant first of all the Pañca-tattva, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya (devotees chant) prabhu-nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. Thank you. So through the mercy of this Pañca-tattva, easily you can approach Kṛṣṇa, easily. Otherwise how it is possible? These Europeans, Americans, they did not know what was Kṛṣṇa. Four or five years ago they were unknown. How they have become so devotee of Kṛṣṇa that ten thousand miles, crossing over the sea, they have come here at Māyāpur, unless they have got developed love for this? Their coming is not so easy from neighboring villages, but it costs. They have spent lakhs of dollars-one dollar equal to eight rupees*-and they have come here. Why? Through the mercy of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (end)



750327CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.3

-

Māyāpur, March 27, 1975



Nitāi: "What the *Upaniṣads* describe as the impersonal Brahman is but the effulgence of His body, and the Lord known as the Supersoul is but His localized plenary portion. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa Himself, full with six opulences. He is the Absolute Truth, and no other truth is greater than or equal to Him."



Prabhupāda:



*yad advaitaṁ brahmopaniṣadi tad apy asya tanu*-bhā

*ya ātmāntaryāmī puruṣa iti so asya aṁśa*-vibhavaḥ

*ṣaḍ*-aiśvaryaiḥ pūrṇaḥ ya bhagavān iha sa svayam ayaṁ

*na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāj jagati para*-tattvaṁ param iha

[Cc. Ādi 1.3]



*Now the author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, is establishing with great stress that na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt jagati para*-tattvaṁ param iha: "There is no greater truth than Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." We are after truth, so here the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he is asserting that "Here is the Supreme Truth, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu." Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt. Kṛṣṇāt, because Kṛṣṇa has appeared as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. We have explained this truth yesterday according to Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's declaration, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogaṁ-śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ. Puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ is Kṛṣṇa. Puruṣaḥ, He is puruṣaḥ, and purāṇaḥ, ādyam, the original person. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. In many Vedic literature Kṛṣṇa is described as the purāṇaḥ puruṣaḥ, the oldest. Purāṇaḥ puruṣaḥ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. Although He is the oldest of all, still, He is always like fresh youth, nava-yauvanaṁ ca. So how it is possible? They are trying to understand God. Sometimes they paint the picture of God as very old man. Because He is the original person, so by this time He must have become very old. This is imagination. This is not actually the form of the Lord. The form of the Lord is there in the Brahma-saṁhitā and other Vedic literatures. Even Śaṅkarācārya, who is a impersonalist, he has accepted Lord Kṛṣṇa as the supreme Nārāyaṇa. In his comment on Bhagavad-gītā he says, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: "Nārāyaṇa is beyond this material creation." And while describing Nārāyaṇa, he has affirmed, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ: "That Nārāyaṇa is Kṛṣṇa." And he has clearly mentioned, "Now He has appeared as the son of Devakī and Vāsudeva," to confirm just like identification is confirmed when the father's name is there.



*So Kṛṣṇa is para*-tattva, accepted by all ācāryas. We are not talking of the fools and rascals who are theorizing without any knowledge. We are concerned with the authorities. So authorities... Especially in India, the whole Vedic system is being followed by the people under the authorities of the ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is following the path of the ācāryas, he knows. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. We cannot accept anyone as authority if he does not follow the paramparā, disciplic succession of ācārya. That is the Vedic system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So Kṛṣṇa is para-tattva. Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt jagati para-tattvaṁ param iha. He is very emphatically asserting that "There is no more greater truth than Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." So according to the Vedic system, if you say something very emphatically, you must prove by Vedic evidences. Otherwise you can go on talking; *nobody will hear. Sometimes people ask us about Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "What is the Vedic evidences?" So that Vedic evidences will be given, later chapters of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. He is not falsely asserting. Kavirāja Gosvāmī is very, very advanced devotee and scholar. He is not ordinary human being. He was empowered by Madana-mohana.

So nobody should try to write any Vedic literature. Vedic literature means the śruti, smṛti, Purāṇa. They are Vedic literature. Therefore Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has also confirmed,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātriki*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktiḥ

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*Utpātā, simply disturbance. Yata mat tata patha: "I can manufacture my own way." This rascaldom has been condemned by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. He says that harer bhaktiḥ... You will find many so-called bhaktas crying, falling down on the ground. But immediately after, he is smoking bidi. So why this is going on? Because they do not follow the injunction of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Chanting, dancing very loudly, and after the performance is finished*-I have seen it-"Can you give me a bidi?" You see? "My throat is now dried up." So this is utpātā. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has described this kind of so-called devotional attitude is simply disturbance. They imitate. Imitate. Therefore Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has condemned. There are so many apa-sampradāya going on in the name of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's devotee. Who are they? Āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi, sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jata-gosāñi. Then ativāḍī, cūḍādhārī, gaurāṅga-nāgarī, tota kahe ei tāra saṅga nāhi kori: Tota Bābājī, he says, "I do not associate with these classes of men." So after disappearance of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, so many apa-sampradāya sprang up. So we should be very much careful that... Sampradāya means who are carefully following the Vedic principle. Therefore Kavirāja Gosvāmī, although asserting the truth, he is prepared to give Vedic evidences. Now he has begun.



*The Vedas, they begin with the Upaniṣad. Vedānta*-sūtra, Upaniṣad, they are all Vedic literature. Purāṇas, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, they are all Vedic literatures. Four Vedas-Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva-then the Upaniṣad, then the Vedānta-sūtra, then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Vedānta-sūtra is the same thing. It is explanation. Therefore at the end of each chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated by Vyāsadeva, brahma-sūtrasya bhāṣya. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means comment on the Brahma-sūtra. Brahma-sūtra is the gist code of all Vedic literature. And then it is explained, athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā: "Jīvasya, for living being, the only business is to enquire about the Absolute Truth." That is the only business. People are in trouble because they have given up their real business. Human life is meant for this business, brahma-jijñāsā, to enquire about the Absolute Truth. We have been given so many facilities by nature. There are so many living entities, they are standing on the ground for many years. The trees, the plants and the aquatics, for many, many years they are in the water. The flies and insects, for many, many years they are in that condition. And gradually, by evolution, we come to this form of human life. Especially the Aryans, the advanced, civilized human being, he has got all the facilities. The uncivilized men live in the jungle, and they cannot utilize the resources. (people making noise) Ask them to stop. Somebody must remain there.

*So therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, in very simple Bengali song, he says, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. This is our life. We have got this human form of life, but we are simply spoiling it. This is the whole situation. In our this movement we are traveling all over the world, and according to our views, how they are spoiling their very valuable human life in false identification that "I am this body," everyone, in big, big names, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German," "I am...," and they are spoiling their life under this bodily concept of life. According to śāstra, anyone who is identifying himself, this body... That is the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa brought Arjuna to fight with the Kurus, and he identified himself as this body, and therefore he thought, "Killing of my cousin-brothers, it will not be good because I have got bodily relation." So to dissipate this conception of life-that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā*-Kṛṣṇa chastised him, Arjuna, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase [Bg. 2.11]. We are talking very, very big, big talks and plans, but actually we are nothing better than cats and dogs. This is our position because we are identifying with this body. "My country, my community, my society, my family, my..." Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Jīvasya moho ayam ahaṁ mameti. They do not know. This is the ignorance, basic ignorance. "I" and "my." "I am this body, and anything in relationship with the body is mine." This is ignorance. But this ignorance is going on all over the world. That's a fact, this ignorance.

Therefore in the beginning the author said,

*vande śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-

nityānanda sahoditau

gauḍodaye puṣpavantau

*citrau śandau tamo*-nudau

[Cc. Ādi 1.2]



*Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda Prabhu, both of Them have come to deliver these fallen souls of this material world who are in the darkness of conception. So They are fighting all over the world this darkness. Just now somebody told me that the king of the Arabia is killed. He is killed now by his nephew or somebody else. This is going on. Even in family affairs it is going on. Why? This darkness. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu along with His associates, Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu, Gadādhara Prabhu and Śrīvāsādi*-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, they are trying to dissipate the darkness of this false identification. Kṛṣṇa simply instructed Arjuna about his darkness of identity, and He punished him, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "You are talking very big, big words, but you are lamenting on a subject matter on which no learned person laments." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means "You are fool number one." Paṇḍitāḥ. "No paṇḍita makes like that. Now try to understand what is the position."



Then He said,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*"First of all try to understand what you are." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. It is no politics. It is knowledge, pure knowledge. Bhagavad-gītā is pure knowledge. The politicians take advantage of it. The sociologists, the so-called swamis, yogis, they take advantage of it and try to prove their all nonsensical theories. But it is not at all Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā as it is is pure knowledge, beginning with the first knowledge one has to understand, that he is not this body. Because this is the basic principle all ignorance: "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this," "I am that"*-this is the basic principle. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says the same thing in a different way. He says, "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya, I am not a śūdra, I am not a brahmacārī, I am not a gṛhastha, I am not a vānaprastha, I am not a sannyāsī." These are negation. Then what is the positive? He says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 13.80] "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of the gopī-bhartuḥ, Kṛṣṇa, who maintains the gopīs."



So this is our identification. But we have forgotten our identification.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*We have forgotten our real relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and we are trying to be happy by material adjustment. This is modern civilization. One is thinking, "If I get such nice house, nice motorcar, nice business, nice bank balance, nice wife, nice children..." This is material civilization. But they do not know. Despite all these nice things, he will never be happy. Now you Europeans and Americans, you have got a good qualification. I described many times that you are no more very much interested with all these "nice" things, so*-called nice things. Real nice thing is spiritual understanding. That nice thing begins: ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am not this body." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa is instructing Arjuna that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul. Try to understand."



*So we should learn from Kṛṣṇa. We should learn from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Therefore the author says that "You accept this authority." Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt para*-tattvaṁ param iha. If you want knowledge, then... You have missed already, because when Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared five hundred years ago people already became fools and rascals. They did not care for the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore He again came as devotee of Kṛṣṇa to teach us how to serve Kṛṣṇa, how to love Kṛṣṇa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult, the same thing. When Kṛṣṇa appeared He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up everything, so-called rascaldom. Just surrender to Me." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said the same thing as a devotee: yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He did not say anything new. That is the authenticity. "I have manufactured some way"-these are all rascaldom. The same thing you should... You can... Just like in your country it is said, "Old wine in a new bottle." Similarly, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching the same thing. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the same thing: yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. And we are saying the same thing, na kṛṣṇāt caitanyāt para-tattvam: "There is no more superior truth than Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." Why? Because He is talking the same truth as Kṛṣṇa said. This is called paramparā system. What Kṛṣṇa said, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said the same thing, and we are talking the same thing.

*So there is no difficulty to understand the Absolute Truth. It may be presented in a different way... Not different way. It is directly. Kṛṣṇa says directly that "You surrender to Me," and Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You preach this cult," yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128], the same thing. We are not going to teach anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa and which is not supported by Kṛṣṇa Caitanyadeva. This is our principle. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa preached Kṛṣṇa Himself, Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached the same principle, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], and we are preaching the same thing. We do not preach anything else. We do not manufacture anything. That is not our business.

So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, by the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you all European boys and girls joined this movement under my soliciting. I went to your country with this word only. I did not show you any magic, neither I have any knowledge how to play magic. That is not possible. I simply repeat the same thing, that "Here is *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*. Here is Kṛṣṇa Caitanyadeva, the devotional form of Kṛṣṇa. You accept Them. Your life will be successful."

Thank you very much. (end)



750328CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.4

-

Māyāpur, March 28, 1975



Nitāi: "May that Lord, who is known as the son of Śrīmatī Śacīdevī, be transcendentally situated in the innermost chambers of your heart. Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation ever offered before: the most sublime and radiant spiritual knowledge of the mellow taste of His service."



Prabhupāda:



*anarpita*-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau

*samarpayitum unnata ujjvala*-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam

*hariḥ puraṭa*-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ

*sadā hṛdaya*-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandana

[Cc. Ādi 1.4]



This is the blessings of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī upon everyone.



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*We should pray to Rūpa Gosvāmī for his blessings so that we can understand what is the actual position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the most merciful incarnation to bestow upon us Kṛṣṇa*-prema. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī understood it, Śrīla Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya understood it, and we should take their viewpoint of view, what they have studied about Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says... In the beginning Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was appreciated by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī as mahā-vadānyāvatāra. There are many incarnations of Kṛṣṇa, keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare, keśava dhṛta-nṛsiṁha-rūpa jaya jagadīśa..., many incarnations. But this incarnation, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is anarpita-carīṁ cirāt. The mercy of this incarnation is unlimited. It was never given before. That is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. He distributed the most confidential part of love of Godhead. Although we are living in this fallen age, Kali-yuga, but He is giving the topmost platform of loving Kṛṣṇa. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt. Therefore He is supposed to be the most munificent incarnation. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. He is giving directly Kṛṣṇa-prema.



It is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa, and what to speak of His loving affairs. It is very difficult.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścit vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



Kṛṣṇa personally says that it is very difficult to understand Him. Actually it is so. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy is so unlimited that He is helping not only to understand Kṛṣṇa, but also He is giving directly love of Kṛṣṇa, and the supermost platform of love, as it was experienced by the gopīs.



*The gopīs' dealing with Kṛṣṇa is considered to be the topmost. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He recommended, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū*-vargeṇa yā kalpitā. Vrajavadhū, the gopīs, the damsels of Vṛndāvana, they worship Kṛṣṇa in the topmost loving affairs. They did not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa they could sacrifice anything-their honor, their prestige, everything, their husband, their sons, family. That is the gopīs' standard. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is accepted by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī in many verses. One of the verses in here, anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau.

So we should take shelter of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the blessing of Rūpa Gosvāmī. He says,

*hariḥ puraṭa*-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ

*sadā hṛdaya*-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandana



He is giving His blessing that "This form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, may always remain within your..., in the core of your heart." If we simply keep Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu within our heart, then it will be very easy to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, because if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. That is only. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means just try to understand Kṛṣṇa; then your life is successful. Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who understands Me, why I come here, what is My activities," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma [Bg. 4.9], "he becomes liberated. After giving up this body, he does not accept any material body. In his own spiritual body he goes back to home, back to Godhead." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So if you don't go through Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, it will be very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is practical. Just like you young boys and girls from Western countries. You have taken up Kṛṣṇa so seriously. Why? Because we are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So we should follow this principle. There will be no difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, your life is successful. Of course, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa fully. As far as possible, at least if we understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, this much is sufficient. This much is sufficient. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. These things are there, already stated, but the so-called scholars and politicians, they misinterpret in a different way and mislead the people. That is going on. Therefore, in spite of Bhagavad-gītā being read all over the world for the last two hundred years, not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is the defect. So let us try to understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and as we have repeatedly said, that "Through Caitanya Mahāprabhu you understand Kṛṣṇa and spread this cult all over the world." People are suffering for want of knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. So this movement especially meant to establish the cult of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The cult of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is that you become, every one of you, you become a guru. How to become guru? Now, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Simply that qualification is sufficient. Don't adulterate the 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. You simply present what Kṛṣṇa says as it is. Then every one of you will become a guru. Don't adulterate-"I think," "In my opinion." These nonsense things should be given up. We should always be aware that we are insignificant creature. Our opinion and thinking has no value. This should be the first principle. Why should you give opinion on the words of Kṛṣṇa? Are you more authoritative person than Kṛṣṇa? This is foolishness, to try to become more than Kṛṣṇa. There are so many rascals. They present that "Now we have advanced. We know more than Kṛṣṇa." So be saved from these rascals. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa, and through Caitanya Mahāprabhu you will understand what is the position of Kṛṣṇa, what is your relationship with Kṛṣṇa, what is the ultimate goal of life. These things will be clearly exhibited.

*And Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta is written for this purpose so that a person who is serious about Kṛṣṇa consciousness may understand Kṛṣṇa through the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is wanted. You cannot jump over Kṛṣṇa consciousness without going through the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And to go through Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu means to go through the six Gosvāmīs. This is paramparā system. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says,

*ei chay gosāi jār*-tār mui dās

*tā*-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās



*This is paramparā system. You cannot jump over. You must go through the paramparā system. You have to approach through your spiritual master to the Gosvāmīs, and through the Gosvāmīs you will have to approach Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and through Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu you have to approach Kṛṣṇa. This is the way. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, ei chay gosāi jār*-tār mui dās. We are servant of servant. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. The more you become servant of the servant, the more you are perfect. And if you all of a sudden want to become master, then you go to hell. That's all. Don't do that. This is the teaching of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If you go through the servant, servant, servant, then you are advanced. And if you think that you have now become master, then you are going to hell. This is the process. Dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. So servant, servant, servant, a hundred times servant now, that means he is advanced. He is advanced. And one who is becoming directly master, then he is in the hell.



*So anarpita*-carīṁ cirāt. So we should always remember the instruction of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Therefore we pray, ṣrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale.

[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*Our mission is to establish the desire of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is our business. Śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī did it. He has given us so many books, especially Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which we have translated into English as Nectar of Devotion, to understand the science of devotional service. This is the greatest contribution of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, how to become a devotee. How to become a devotee. It is not sentiment; *it is science. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a great science. Yad vijñāna*-samanvitam. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. It is not sentiment. If you take it as sentiment, then you will create disturbance. That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī. He said,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātriki*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



(end)





750329CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.5

-

Māyāpur, March 29, 1975



*Nitāi: "The loving affairs of Śrī Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are transcendental manifestations of the Lord's internal pleasure*-giving potency. Although Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are one in Their identity, They separated Themselves eternally. Now these two transcendental identities have again united in the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. I bow down to Him, who has manifested Himself with the sentiment and complexion of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī although He is Kṛṣṇa Himself."



Prabhupāda:



*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad*-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ

*rādhā*-bhāva-dyuti-suvalitaṁ naumi kṛṣṇa-svarūpam

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*So another feature of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is described here by the author, Kavirāja Gosvāmī. In the beginning He has been described as the ultimate Absolute Truth, ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ ya bhagavān. The Absolute Truth realized in three phases. The ultimate phase is Bhagavān. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. Bhagavān means full of six opulences. Not as nowadays there are so many Bhagavāns, they have no aiśvarya. But Bhagavān means ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ, full opulences, six kinds of opulence. Then that Bhagavān, Supreme Personality of Godhead, has descended as incarnation, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, just to bestow the topmost understanding of loving affairs with Kṛṣṇa. Samarpayitum unnata ujjvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam.



*In the bhakti platform there are different stages. Spiritually, there is no difference. One in dāsya-rasa and one in mādhurya-rasa, there is no difference. But a devotee likes to serve the Supreme Lord according to his inclination. Some wants to love Him in śānta-rasa, some wants to love Him in dāsya-rasa, someone in friendly, then paternal love, then conjugal love. So there is no difference between these different phases of loving affair, but great devotees and learned scholars, they have given their decision that the loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa in the conjugal platform between husband and wife, or above that, between lover and beloved... That is very much prominent in the Western countries, friend, boyfriend, girlfriend. In the spiritual world that platform of remaining as friend without marriage, that is considered as the highest. And whatever we see here*-a perverted reflection of that loving affairs. Just like perverted reflection... It is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva-mūlam adho-śākha aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam. This material world has been described as having its root up, ūrdhva-mūlam adho-śākha, and the branches down. We have several times explained this ūrdhva-mūlam adho-śākha. In the material world this is a shadow. Unless it is shadow, how the mūlam, or the root, can be upwards? We have got experience: a tree on the bank of a river. The tree is reflected adho-śākha, on the root upward, shadow. So this is shadow. Real thing is in the spiritual world. Therefore it is called adho-śākha. Śākha. In the spiritual world the topmost part is this conjugal love, and here, the same thing, when pervertedly reflected, it is the lowest abominable thing. We should know this, that in the spiritual world, to remain as girlfriend and boyfriend, that is the topmost pleasure, and in the material world, the same thing is the most abominable thing. Therefore it is adho-śākha. We cannot imitate the loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī unless we understand the real fact.

*The real fact is described here, that rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktiḥ. Śaktiḥ means potency. So from Vedas we understand that the Lord, the Supreme Person, has got multi-energies.

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate

*svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca

na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate

*na tat*-samas abhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate

[Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]



*So these energies... Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has got multi*-energies. When Arjuna requested Kṛṣṇa, "Will You kindly explain some of the energies as You display?" so in the Bhagavad-gītā there is a list of His different energies. And at last, it is concluded,



atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*Idaṁ kṛtsnaṁ jagat: "All the material manifestation..." Material manifestation means these material universes. They are many. This universe, what we see, one only, the sky, the covering, but there are many millions of universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Koṭi means millions. Jagad-aṇḍa. Jagad-aṇḍa means universes. So Kṛṣṇa says that "All these universes in the material world is display of My one-fourth energy." Just imagine what is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat. And we are trying to imitate Kṛṣṇa. So many rascals, they declare they are Bhagavān. They do not know what is Bhagavān. Bhagavān... These universes are coming, innumerable universes are coming, from the breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu.



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*They have no idea what is Bhagavān. This is one of the description of Mahā*-Viṣṇu, that from His breathing, innumerable universes are coming out. When He is exhaling, the universes are coming out, and when He is inhaling, all, everything, is going within Him. This is Bhagavān. So anyway, this is partial exhibition of the energy of the Lord. And this is one-fourth energy. This material world is manifestation of His one-fourth energy. The three-fourth energies are in the spiritual world. So in that spiritual world Kṛṣṇa exhibits His spiritual energy. That is only spiritual energy. This material world is made of material energy, and we are marginal energy.



*So when Kṛṣṇa wants to enjoy-the enjoy means these loving affairs between man and woman-that is a fact. That is not an artificial thing. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has explained Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. He has said, ādi rasasya janma yatra. Ādi-rasa. There are twelve kinds of rasas, mellow. Of all of them, the ādi-rasa... Ādi-rasa means the loving affair between man and woman. This is called ādi-rasa. So, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura explains, janmādy asya means the ādi-rasa, loving affairs between man and woman, that is from the Supreme Person. That's a fact. Unless the loving propensity is there in the Supreme, how it can be reflected? Because this is perverted reflection only, so there must be the origin. So the Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand this. Because they have got bitter experience of this material world, they try to make zero or without any varieties the ultimate goal. Śūnyavādi. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi. The nirviśeṣavāda, impersonalism and voidism, they are of the same nature. The Buddhist philosopher, they say, "Ultimately, everything is zero." And the Māyāvādī philosopher says not zero, but impersonal. But actually that is not fact. There is everything, variety and personal. But because the philosophers with poor fund of knowledge, they cannot understand, they make it zero or varietyless, nirviśeṣavāda. That, to clean, that to clear the idea, our Kavirāja Gosvāmī says that this Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa prema, loving affairs between Rādhā Kṛṣṇa, it is a fact. It is not imagination. It is a fact. But this fact is different from the fact we have got experience in this world. That is to be understood. Don't take... Just like sahajiyās. They take the Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa prema just like ordinary lusty affairs in this material world. But that is not the fact. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is a verse that the loving affairs of gopīs and Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, it is not ordinary thing. If one can hear from the proper source, and if he understands the real fact of rasa-līlā, then the result will be that his heart, which is full with lusty desire, that will vanish. There will be no more lusty desires. Praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, this praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ hlādinī. So if anyone understands this praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, the loving affairs, transformation of different feelings, if one can understand, then his material lusty desires will vanish. This is the result. Hṛd-roga-kāmān apasya apahinoti dhīraḥ. He becomes dhīra.

Here in this material world everyone is adhīra, agitated, agitated by lusty desires. But in the spiritual world they are dhīra. They are not agitated by lusty desires. This is spiritual world. So long we are agitated by the lusty desires, we must know that we are in the material world. That is the test. Just like Yamunācārya says,

*yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor

*nava*-nava-(rasa)-dhāmany (udyataṁ) rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*"So long I have been engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa and I am rendering more and more service and getting spiritual pleasure, since then, as soon as I think of sex life, I immediately spite upon it and I hate to think of it." This is the result. So people should know what is Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa pra... If one becomes attached to rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, then the test is that his lusty desires will vanish. This is the test. Therefore Kavirāja Gosvāmī explains that "This is not ordinary thing. This is the transformation of the ahlādinī śakti." Samvit, sandhinī, ahlādinī. The Supreme Lord has got three potencies, or energies, primarily. So this rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ is transformation of the pleasure potency. Kṛṣṇa is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, paraṁ brahma. Paraṁ brahma. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. That is the explanation given by Arjuna. This is called paramparā system. If we follow Arjuna, Arjuna's decision should be taken. Arjuna decision is: "Kṛṣṇa is paraṁ brahma." So the Māyāvādī philosophers, they are after brahma-sukha. Brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. Brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. The source of brahma-sukha is Kṛṣṇa, but they cannot reach up to that point.



*itthaṁ (satāṁ) brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nara*-dārakeṇa

*sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



*Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "Here is the Paraṁ Brahman." When he is describing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with the cowherd boys, so Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "These cowherd boys are playing with the Supreme Person who is the source of brahma*-sukha." Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. And for the devotees... There are two kinds of transcendentalist: one Brahmavādi and other, Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava takes this philosophy, that we are servant. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. And the Māyāvādī philosophers, they imperfectly think that they have become one with the Supreme, they have become Nārāyaṇa. That is a misleading philosophy. We should not accept that.



*So this Kṛṣṇa, being Paraṁ Brahman, so what will be the platform of His loving affairs? This is to be considered. For brahma-sukha, we are... In this material world we see many saintly persons. They give up everything, sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means giving up everything for the Supreme. So for simply to relish a little bit of brahma-sukha, these saintly persons, great, great saintly persons, they are giving up everything. Tyaktvā sva-dharmam. Sva-dharma means the regulated division of the society: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So they give up everything, brahma-sukhānubhūtyā, to understand... Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1]. For purifying the existence. Because we are after happiness, every one of us. But we are seeking happiness in the perverted reflection. That is not possible. Therefore one has to give up this perverted happiness and come to the real fact. So our point is that "Because Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman, so how He can take pleasure in this material world?" This is the argument. So those who are wrongly thinking, foolishly thinking, that "Kṛṣṇa enjoyed with the gopīs like we enjoy in the company of many girls," they are great fools. They have no knowledge. They are misled because it appears, perverted reflection, it appears like that. But the reflection is different from the reality. So we should not take in that way. We should follow the footsteps of Caitanya-caritāmṛta kar, that we should understand that this praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, this transformation of loving affairs between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, this is not like this, the ordinary boy and girl. It is ahlādinī śakti. If we take that, then we are misled. How He can take? Because for understand brahma-sukha we are giving up everything-I mean from the Māyāvādī point of view*-and again, Kṛṣṇa being Paraṁ Brahman, how He can indulge in material happiness? This is the argument. Brahma-sukha, to understand brahma-sukha, to release brahma-sukha, if one is giving up everything material... There are three kinds of sukha: material sukha, brahma-sukha, and spiritual sukha. Brahma-sukha is on the margin. Sukha means happiness. Therefore, from logical point of view, we should conclude it that "Kṛṣṇa, being Parabrahman, how He can indulge in material happiness?" This is very important point. If for understanding little bit of brahma-sukha we are giving up all material enjoyment, how Kṛṣṇa can enjoy materially? He is Paraṁ Brahman. Therefore those sahajiyās, those who are taking that Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with ordinary girls, they are very, very, much misled. That is not the fact. Therefore it is said, hlādinī śakti. This is different. This is in the spiritual world the topmost mellow, hlādinī śakti.

So eko brahma dvitīya nāsti: "Brahman, Parabrahman, is one." Kṛṣṇa is one. There is no competition with Kṛṣṇa. Na tasya samaḥ adhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody can be equal with Him; *nobody can be greater than Him." Na tasya samaḥ. Samaḥ means equal, and adhikaḥ means greater. That is Parabrahman. That is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa says also, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior entity than Me." So we have to very carefully study Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to understand Kṛṣṇa very scientifically. It is not sentiment. One must be very philosophically advanced with scientific knowledge. Jñānaṁ vijñānam. This is vijñāna. It is not sentiment. Jñānaṁ vijñāna*-sahitam. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Without vijñāna, science, without philosophy to understand Kṛṣṇa, is not possible. You can say that "Do you think that all the devotees, they are all scientist and philosopher?" Yes. The answer is yes. "No, they have no degree of science or philosophy." And still... Because if you learn science and philosophy, you will have to approach some person who knows the science, knows the philosophy. But the greatest scientist, the greatest philosopher, is Kṛṣṇa. He is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. And He says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmy aham [Bg. 10.10]. Anyone who is sincere devotee and always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, Kṛṣṇa says, "I give him education, intelligence. I make him scientist, philosopher." That is the way. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi. What kind of science? What kind of philosophy? Yena mām upayānti te. "That science, that spiritual science, that spiritual philosophy, I teach him personally." Why this is so not to all? You may say that if Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is sitting in everyone's heart, why He is especially inclined, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām [Bg. 10.10], one who is engaged twenty-fours hours in His service? Why not others? So that is special mercy for the devotee, special mercy. Teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ, nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-sthaḥ [Bg. 10.11]. This is the process. You cannot understand God, or Kṛṣṇa, without being a faithful servant. This is the secret. And if we become faithful servant under the guidance of proper spiritual master, then we can understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Parabrahman, and what is loving affairs with Rādhārāṇī, what is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. These things are revealed. It is not acquired by so-called mundane knowledge. That is not possible. Svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. Just like in the darkness, if you want the sunshine, it is not possible. But in the morning the sun comes out automatically and the darkness is dissipated. Svayam eva. So we should always remain faithful servant of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is within everyone's heart, and He will be pleased by your service, and then He will reveal Himself, what He is. Otherwise it is not possible.

Thank you very much. (end)



750330CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.6

-

Māyāpur, March 30, 1975



Nitāi: "Desiring to understand the glory of Rādhārāṇī's love, the wonderful qualities in Him that She alone relishes through Her love, and the happiness She feels when She realizes the sweetness of His love, the Supreme Lord Hari, richly endowed with Her emotions, appeared from the womb of Śrīmatī Śacīdevī, as the moon appears from the ocean."



Prabhupāda:



*śrī*-rādhāyāḥ praṇaya-mahimā kīdṛśo vā anayaivā-

*svādyo yenādbhuta*-madhurimā kīdṛśo vā madīyaḥ

*saukhyaṁ cāsyā mad*-anubhavataḥ kīdṛśaṁ veti lobhāt

*tad*-bhāvāḍhyaḥ samajani śacī-garbha-sindhau harīnduḥ

[Cc. Ādi 1.6]



*So the love affairs between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā... That we have already understood, that Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa combined together is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptam. Tad-dvayam. Dvayam means two, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. They are one. There is no difference, energy and the energetic. So Rādhārāṇī is the energy, pleasure energy, of Kṛṣṇa. So when Kṛṣṇa... We have explained this. When Kṛṣṇa wants pleasure, He cannot derive it from anything material. We should not misunderstand that Kṛṣṇa is ordinary human being and He is enjoying like us. Completely different. Rādhārāṇī is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. So when Kṛṣṇa, Paraṁbrahman... Kṛṣṇa is described by Arjuna, Paraṁbrahman. So when the Paraṁbrahman wants to enjoy... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot conceive that Paraṁbrahman also enjoys; *therefore they think of Paraṁbrahman as imperson. So that is not the fact. Brahman, Paramātmā, then Bhagavān. Therefore Bhagavān is Paraṁbrahman. That is accepted by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So Brahman is spiritual, undoubtedly, but more than Brahman is Paramātmā, and more than Paramātmā is Paraṁbrahman, Kṛṣṇa. Yad advaitaṁ brahma upaniṣadi. If you study the Upaniṣads, then you can realize Brahman. And if you practice yoga, then you can realize Paramātmā. And if you practice bhakti-yoga, then you can realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the process. The more you advance... Just like the sunshine. Sunshine and the sun globe or the sun-god*-they are of the same quality, heat and light. But the sunshine is not the sun globe, neither the sun globe is the sun-god. It is this; *therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, acintya*-bhedābheda, inconceivable one and different simultaneously.



*So when you go to the platform of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead... As Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*You have to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, in truth, not superficially. Then you'll misunderstand. Without understanding Kṛṣṇa, if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with Rādhārāṇī, that is foolishness. But they do not know Kṛṣṇa. How can understand His pastimes with the gopīs? That is foolishness. Therefore we have to understand Kṛṣṇa first of all, and Kṛṣṇa Himself, explaining Himself. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, Kṛṣṇa does not speak anything about His pastimes with Rādhārāṇī. That is strictly prohibited. You never find Kṛṣṇa is speaking about His pastimes with the gopīs or with Rādhārāṇī. No. He's officially speaking about Himself, "I am this, I am that." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. First of all try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Thoroughly study Bhagavad-gītā, and after studying Bhagavad-gītā, if you are fortunate enough to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then, Kṛṣṇa says, surrender. That is the beginning of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Don't try to understand the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs. Just like if you make a friend, ordinarily, if you become intimate friend, then you can understand about his household affairs. If you are newly a gentleman introduced with another gentleman, you cannot ask him, "What is the affair in your household or with your wife or with your beloved?" That you cannot ask, neither it is possible to understand.



*So the foolishness is going on that without understanding Kṛṣṇa, there are so*-called rascal foolish poets. They are describing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with Rādhārāṇī. That is the cause of falldown of the so-called Vaiṣṇavism. Without understanding Kṛṣṇa they want to understand the pastimes of... You'll find in your country also. I have seen one book written by one Bhaṭṭācārya about the pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and the covering page is Rādhārāṇī's picture naked. So these rascals have made so much havoc, and this book is published by the United Nations. I have seen one book in France. I think some of you might have seen. Bhagavān, you have seen? Hm?

Bhagavān: Vidyāpati.



*Prabhupāda: Anyway, this kind of literature... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to read Gītā*-Govinda, Caṇḍīdāsa, amongst with His confidential devotees. The Gītā-Govinda, the loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, it is not for the neophyte student. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... You'll find Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaching... Generally, He was talking with Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, He was talking with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya-but the subject matter was not the same. When He was talking officially with the Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, there is no talk about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with Rādhārāṇī. Simply on the basis of Vedānta He was talking. But when He was talking with Rāmaṇanda Rāya, He talked about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with Rādhārāṇī. So we should be very careful that from the very beginning... Just like the professional Bhāgavata readers. The Bhāgavata reading means describing rasa-līlā. Whenever you find there is Bhāgavata reading, they are describing. I have seen one big Gosvāmī. He was professional Bhāgavata reader, and whenever... He would speak very nicely on rasa-līlā, and after describing rasa-līlā, Bhāgavata reading, he would come for recreation and smoke cigarette. I have seen it.



*So this kind of Bhāgavata reading will not help you. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt: [SB 11.2.42] "If you are actually advancing in devotional service, then the symptom will be that you'll have no more material hankerings." That is real. So if you actually hear about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with Rādhārāṇī, then hṛd*-roga-kāmān apahinoti, then our heart disease, lusty desires, will vanish. That is the result. I have repeatedly said. So if you become more lusty by seeing the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī or hearing, that means you are not fit. Stop it. Stop it. Don't be foolish. So in the spiritual platform, the everything are there, but they are different in quality. Just like iron is also metal and gold is also metal, but the quality is different; *similarly, don't take that Kṛṣṇa's loving affairs with Rādhārāṇī is exactly like our loving affair with our girlfriend. No. It is not like that. One is gold, and one is iron. Don't minimize the value. Therefore Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī has described that it is ahlādinī-śaktiḥ. Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktiḥ.

*So this hlādinī-śakti is being described in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta is the postgraduate study of highly elevated devotees. Ordinary devotees, they cannot understand. I have seen one professional reader. He was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta, but he did not believe in it. Because he cannot understand. He cannot understand it. He plainly said, "These are only imaginary descriptions. There is no fact in it." I have seen it. So how one can understand this is fact unless one has understood what is spirit? Just like in your country, big, big professors, they do not believe in the spirit. They simply think of this body. So how they can understand about Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and Their pastimes, all spiritual affairs? First of all we must understand what is spirit and what is Kṛṣṇa and what is Rādhārāṇī, and then we try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī's loving affairs.

*So here it is said that Kṛṣṇa is feeling how Rādhārāṇī is so much attracted. So much attracted. That is feeling. Now, Kṛṣṇa is omniscient. He knows everything. Why He should feel like that? The feel, that He knows, but for our understanding, He is displaying, He's manifesting Himself, that "Rādhārāṇī's loving affairs is so great and unlimited, even though I am omniscient, I cannot understand it." Just like Lord Rāmacandra. Lord Rāmacandra, He is Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why He felt so much separation that to rescue Sītādevī He fought with Rāvaṇa? He's self*-sufficient. Why He should feel separation from Sītā? This question may be raised. But actually there are different phases of loving affairs, and the separation is also one of them. The separation, feeling of separation, is one of them. We have got experience in our present life that intense love... Still there is feeling of separation. All these things are there in the spiritual world. Only perverted reflection of those spiritual feelings are manifested here in this material world. Therefore it is called perverted reflection. But everything is there, but they are not material. We should always understand that. Kṛṣṇa is perfect, Rādhārāṇī is perfect, and They are always constantly accompanied. Then why there is separation? And still, there is separation. So these are very high-grade understanding.

*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu means Kṛṣṇa feeling separation, or Rādhārāṇī feeling... Rādhā*-bhava-dhyuti-suvalitam. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taken the position of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī-how to feel separation from Kṛṣṇa. This is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore it is said, śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya rādhā kṛṣṇa nahe anya. If you simply worship Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then you will be able to worship both Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. This is the meaning of these verses. So Caitanya-caritāmṛta author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, is describing the cause of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's appearance. The cause is that Kṛṣṇa wanted to know, "What is there in Rādhārāṇī?" He is Madana-mohana. Kṛṣṇa's another name is... He's attractive. Kṛṣṇa is attractive to everyone, even He is attractive to Cupid, Madana. Madana is attractive in the material world, and He is Madana-mohana. And Rādhārāṇī is Madana-mohana-mohinī, means She attracts even the Madana-mohana. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is trying to understand, "What is there in Rādhārāṇī that She attracts? I attract the whole universe, and She attracts Me."

*So with this feeling, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, tad*-bhāvāḍhyaḥ lobhāt. These are all transcendental loving affairs. Lobhāt: there is greediness to understand. Tad-bhāvādhyaḥ samajani: "He appeared in the womb of mother Śacī." Samajani śacī-garbha-sindhau harīnduḥ. Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is like the moon. So we established this temple, Māyāpura-candrodaya. So this is the idea, that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is just like moon. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He appeared in this land of Māyāpura; *therefore He is said here as "the moon." Therefore we say candra, Māyāpura*-candra. Now, as Śrī Māyāpura-candra is rising... Rising. Rising means He is to distribute the moonshine all over the world. This is the idea, moonshine. Śreyaḥ-kairava candrikā-vitaraṇam. Śreyaḥ-kairava. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said. Don't keep Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu compact in your room and take some monetary profit. This is not required. This is not required. You must allow Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to rise more and more so that this sun, moonshine, may be distributed all over the world. That is wanted. Therefore this temple is situated. Of course we shall try to construct a very nice temple for Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This morning we were thinking of this. So from this place, this moon, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, will distribute. Śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam. The Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's Hare Kṛṣṇa movement... Paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. This is spoken by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam. This is real enlightenment. People all over the world, they are in darkness. The moonshine will enlighten them. They are all foolish, mūḍha.

*That is described in Bhagavad*-gītā also:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritaḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*These foolish persons at the present moment... It is very, very much regrettable that they are passing on as very learned scholar, as philosopher, politician, economist. But according to Kṛṣṇa's statement in the Bhagavad*-gītā, they are all fool and rascals. Why? Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ pra... They are not surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa came, appeared, upon this planet in this universe to canvass that "You surrender." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. But they did not. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa... He's Kṛṣṇa.



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

nāmne...

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He's Kṛṣṇa Himself. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. First of all He came as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and He demanded as God's order, "You surrender," but people did not do it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has again come in the form of devotee, kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-nāmne, and now He is ready to give you not only Kṛṣṇa, but love of Kṛṣṇa, freely. Take it and distribute it all over the world. That is wanted.



Thank you very much. (end)



750331CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.7

-

Māyāpur, March 31, 1975



Nitāi: "May Śrī Nityānanda Rāma be the object of my constant remembrance. Saṅkarṣaṇa, Śeṣa Nāga and the Viṣṇus who lie on the Kāraṇa Ocean, Garbha Ocean and ocean of milk are His plenary portions and the portions of His plenary portions."



Prabhupāda:



*saṅkarṣaṇaḥ kāraṇa*-toya-śāyī

garbhoda-śāyī ca payobdhi-śāyī,

*śeṣaś ca yasyāṁśa*-kalāḥ sa nityā-

*nandākhya*-rāmaḥ śaraṇaṁ mamāstu

[Cc. Ādi 1.7]



*So Kavirāja Gosvāmī, after offering his respectful obeisances to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and describing the purpose of His incarnation, He is now trying to describe Nityānanda. Śrī*-Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityānanda. Pañca-tattva, one after another... First of all Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then Nityānanda Prabhu, then Advaita Prabhu, then Gadādhara, and then Śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. He is summarizing the obeisances to the Pañca-tattva. Now, what is the identification of Nityānandākhya-Rāma? Rāma, Balarāma, and Baladeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa-there are so many names of Śrī Baladeva. In the Upaniṣad it is said, nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyo: "Self-realization is not possible without being strengthened by the mercy of Balarāma." Sometimes they take it foolishly, that "Without being very strong bodily, nobody can realize self." But that is not the fact. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahudhā śrutena. This is the Vedic injunction. That bala-hīnena means without being favored by Nityānanda Prabhu, Balarāma.



*Balarāma is Nityānanda. That we know by following the footprints of mahājanas. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, vrajendra*-nandana yei, śacī-suta hoila sei, balarāma hoila nitāi: "Balarāma has appeared now as Nityānanda." So bala means strength, spiritual strength, and rāma means enjoyer. Iti rāma padenāsau param brahma ity abhidhīyate. Rāma means Parabrahman. Satyānande cid-ātmani. Ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. Yogi, they are also interested in enjoying life. There are different kinds of yogis. Of all the yogis, the bhakti-yogi, that is the best. That is said by Kṛṣṇa:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*Yogis, there are many yogis, but the bhakti*-yogi is the best because by bhakta-yoga only, you can approach the Supreme Personality of... There is no other way. Jñāna, karma, and haṭha-yoga, they can help little, but they are not competent to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānātievaṁ [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then karma, yoga, jñāna, these, although they can elevate you to some extent, but you cannot approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead by karma, jñāna, yoga. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa as He is, then you have to accept the path of bhakti-yoga. Kṛṣṇa says personally, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥevaṁ prasanna-manaso. And in order to attain this perfection of bhakti-yoga, you require strength from Balarāma, Saṅkarṣaṇa.



ramante yoginaḥ anante

satyānande cid-ātmani

*iti rāma*-padenāsau

paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate

[Cc. Madhya 9.29]



*Rāma means who enjoys. So this word rāma is explained in the śāstra that one who is expert in enjoying eternal happiness, he is perfect yogi. Not flickering happiness. Flickering happiness, the yogis are not interested in flickering happiness or material happiness. Material happiness is always flickering, temporary. That is not happiness, but we take it. Real happiness is when we enjoy life with Kṛṣṇa, rāma. That is real happiness. Ramante yoginaḥ anante satyānande. That is ananta. Ananta means unlimited. So our... We are seeking after ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). By our nature we want to be very blissful, always happy. That is our nature. And we can possess, revive our nature of eternal happiness, provided we try to get it in this human form of life. There is no difficulty if we follow the path enunciated by great authorities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. So Nityānanda Prabhu, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Their disciples, they are all mahājanas, great personalities. If we follow their principles, then it is very easy. There is no difficulty. But difficulty is that we do not follow.



*So here it is describing that for the material creation the... There are three puruṣa*-avatāra. Puruṣa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that puruṣa-avatāras. First avatāra, puruṣa avatāra, is Mahā-Viṣṇu. Mahā-Viṣṇu. Mahā-Viṣṇu is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā,

*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*This Mahā*-Viṣṇu, who is creating innumerable universes by breathing... Just like sometimes we breathe and there are some germs, small, we cannot see; *in the same way, the universes in a small minute form, they are coming out of the breathing of Mahā*-Viṣṇu. That is Kāraṇa-toya-śāyī, kāraṇa-udaka, Causal Ocean. That is beginning of creation. Then all the universes, they gradually develop into gigantic form. In the originally, it is coming out. We cannot understand. Sometimes we become surprised that "How such innumerable universes are being created by a person?" So, the universe is not so big in the beginning. Just like our, this body is not so big in the beginning of our body within the womb of our mother. It is not so big. It is very small, minute, and then it becomes just like a pea, and gradually the body develops. The same process is applicable to the universes. In the beginning, they are coming out of the breathing of Kāraṇa-toya-śāyī Viṣṇu, and then gradually they are developed bṛhannatvāt, bṛhatvāt. It increases gradually. That Kāraṇa-toya-śāyī Viṣṇu is also Saṅkarṣaṇa. And then Garbhodakaśāyī. The universes are created. Then, when they develop, then same Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, enters into each universe, and He creates an ocean. That is called Garbhoda Ocean. And He lies down there on Śeṣa-Nāga, And then, from the navel, the lotus flower sprouts, and then Lord Brahmā is created. Then, after many years tapasya, tapo, he understands how to create. In this way the whole creation of universes takes place. Garbhodakaśāyī. And after creation of this universe, then same Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī, within this universe He creates His own Vaikuṇṭha where there is an ocean of milk. There are different kinds of oceans, we learn from śāstra. We have got experience of the salted ocean, but there are many other oceans, just like milk ocean and ghee ocean, oil ocean and yogurt ocean. There are. We get this information from the śāstra.



*So the Mahā-Viṣṇu, first of all He enters in each universe as Garbhodakaśāyī. Then, within the universe, He creates His Vaikuṇṭha and lies down there-Kṣīrodakaśāyī. This Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is approached by the demigods when there is need of maintenance or for subsiding the disturbance by the demons. Then Brahmā, Lord Śiva and others, they go on the beach of this milk ocean and submit their appeal. Then the answer is given to Brahmā, and he informs to other demigods. This is the process. You'll find this later on. So payobdhi-śāyī and śeṣaś ca, Sesa, that is also incarnation of Viṣṇu. He is sustaining the body of Viṣṇu in different oceans, and He is serving the Lord Viṣṇu in so many ways. Śayyā, āsana, sitting place, bed, and upavīta, and clothes, garments-so many ways He is serving. Now, all these different incarnation of Viṣṇu is summarized here by Kavirāja Gosvāmī that "All of them are partial expansion of Nityānanda," to understand what is Nityānanda Prabhu. The prakāśa-vigraha... Kṛṣṇa first. Then His prakāśa-vigraha, manifested form, a little difference in bodily feature, but the same powerful, that is Balarāma. And then, from Balarāma, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, in this way, quadruple expansion... Then Nārāyaṇa, then another quadruple expansion, then from that quadruple, second manifestation of Saṅkarṣaṇa, all these different Viṣṇus, Kāraṇa-toyāśāyī, Garbhodakaśayī, Kṣīrodhi-śāyī-in this way, expanding. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya [Bs. 5.46]. Just like you take one candle, then you lit up another candle, another candle, another candle. All these candles are equally powerful, but still, the calculation is, Kṛṣṇa is the first candle, Balarāma is the second candle. In this way, viṣṇutayā vibhāti*-the expansion of Viṣṇu, innumerable.

*Advaita acyuta anādi ananta*-rūpam. This Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is the person who is situated in everyone's, every living being's, heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. That īśvara, antaryāmī, who is existing in everyone's heart, that is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Not only within the heart of all living entities, but He is within the atom also. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayā... Paramāṇu. Paramāṇu means atom. In this way Viṣṇu expansion are there. It is inconceivable for us, but by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, we can partially understand from the description of the śāstras. Otherwise we cannot imagine how these things can happen, but it happens. We have to accept. Śāstra-cakṣuṣaḥ. We have to see through the pages of śāstra. Otherwise it is not possible. So if we want to know Viṣṇu-tattva, if we want to know Kṛṣṇa, His exalted position, then here are the description of the śāstra, and if we take them as it is, without malinterpretation, without showing any extraordinary intelligence by us... It is not possible. We have to accept. Therefore the injunction is that you accept the statement of the śāstras. That is... Bhagavad-gītā also said, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate-kāma-kārataḥ: [Bg. 16.23] "If you do not follow the description of the śāstra and if you manufacture something," then na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti, "then you'll never get perfection." We have to follow the śāstra; otherwise there is no other alternative to understand the exalted position of Kṛṣṇa, how He expands in different forms, as Viṣṇu, as Nārāyaṇa. Sometimes they argue that Kṛṣṇa is incarnation of Viṣṇu. That is also truth. You'll find in Caitanya... Truth in this way, that when any incarnation comes, He comes through the Kṣīrobdhi-śāyī Viṣṇu. But Kṣīrobdhi-śāyī is partial expansion of Kṛṣṇa. The subject matter is very intricate, but if we follow the śāstra and accept it, then some clear conception we can have.

*So Nityānanda Rāma... So yasyāṁśa sa nityānanda*-rāmaḥ. Nityānanda is Balarāma. Therefore He is said, nityānandākhya-rāmaḥ. Just like Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Kṛṣṇāya-kṛṣṇa-caitanya nāmne: "I offer my respectful obeisances to Kṛṣṇa now appeared as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." He's Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Nityānanda is Balarāma. So balarāma hoilo nitāi. Therefore it is said here, nityānandākhya-rāmaḥ: "He's Rāma, Balarāma, but at the present moment He has appeared by the name Nityānanda."

Thank you very much. (end)



750401CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.8

-

Māyāpur, April 1, 1975



*Nitāi: "I surrender unto the lotus feet of Śrī Nityānanda Rāma, who is known as Saṅkarṣaṇa in the midst of the catur*-vyūha consisting of Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha. He possesses full opulences and resides in Vaikuṇṭhaloka, far beyond the material creation."



Prabhupāda:



*māyātīte vyāpi*-vaikuṇṭha-loke

*pūrṇaiśvarye śrī*-catur-vyūha-madhye

rūpaṁ yasya udbhāti saṅkarṣaṇākhyaṁ

*taṁ śrī*-nityānanda-rāmaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Ādi 1.8]



*So identification of Nityānanda Prabhu. So He is the second Saṅkarṣaṇa also. The first Saṅkarṣaṇa... From Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, four, quadruple expansions of Balarāma... Then, from Saṅkarṣaṇa, first Saṅkarsana, the Nārāyaṇa, four*-handed Nārāyaṇa, that is the next expansion, and again, from Nārāyaṇa, there is another quadruple expansion, second Saṅkarṣaṇa, Vāsudeva, Pradyumna. So the second Saṅkarṣaṇa also is expansion of Nityānanda Rāma, Balarāma. So where is this Vaikuṇṭhaloka? It is rather imprudent to inquire because we cannot calculate even this material world, what is the length and breadth of this universe. This is only one universe. This is called māyika brahmānanda. Māyika means shadow. Shadow... Shadow is existing on account of the real. So therefore it is called māyā. Just like the example is, in your country, in the window, there are many nice model, beautiful women standing or a man standing, nicely dressed, but that is not real man or woman. That is shadow. That is called māyā. This is the example of māyā. Māyā means it is not fact, but it appears like fact. That is called māyā. Another example is... Just like the mirage, water in the desert. Actually there is no water, but it appears that there is water. The foolish animals, they run after this water, but there is no water. Simply running after will o' the wisp, phantasmagoria. So every one of us in this material world-hankering after happiness. Everyone is trying to be happy. But it is like the same, that there is no water in the desert, and still, the foolish animal running after it.



*So this whole material creation is like that. The creator of this universe, Kṛṣṇa, He says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: [Bg. 8.15] "This is the place for suffering." And you are seeking after happiness. Just like in the prison house: it is the place for suffering, and if you want to be comfortable, this is called māyā. Māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. The whole world is running after happiness what is not possible. Therefore they have been described as vimūḍhān, rascal. We sometimes use this word very frequently, "rascals," and they become angry. But actually that is the description, "rascals." All these so-called civilized men, so-called civilized men, they are not men even. They're all animals. But in the śāstra, they have been described as dvi-pada-paśu. They are animals, but they have got two legs. That's all. That is the difference. Animals, generally, they have four legs, catus-pada, but these animals are two-legged. That is the difference. They're animals because... The same example: In the desert there is no water, and the animal is running after it. Why he's called animal? Because he does not understand that "In the desert, how there can be water?"

*So Vidyāpati has sung a song, tātala saikate, vāri*-bindu-sama, suta-mitra-ramaṇī-samāje. We are trying to be happy here in this material world-how? Suta-mitra-ramaṇī-samāje. Suta means children. Mitra means friends. Society, friendship and love, wife, children... Tāta... So one may say, "Unless there is no happiness, how they are struggling for this suta-mitra-ramaṇī-samāja?" So Vidyāpati says, "Yes, there is happiness." Certainly there is happiness. Otherwise why these vimūḍhān, foolish people, running after it? So he says that the value of their happiness is a proportion of a drop of water in the desert. Tātala saikate. Tātala means, very hot, and saikate means sand. Those who have seen desert, they have got experience how it is intolerable during sunshine, vast, I mean to say, tract of land with sand. So naturally they require water. So if somebody says, "Yes, I'll give you water," and a drop of water... What is called? Proportionate, token. It is called token. "Yes, you want water. Take this water, drop." "What this water will do? This is desert. I want ocean of water and you are giving me drop of water? What is the value?" So still, we are seeking water there. Therefore it is rightly said, tātala saikate, vari-bindu-sama. Vari-bindu. Suta-mitra-ramaṇī-samāje.

*dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣu

*ātma*-sainyeṣu asatsv api

pramattaḥ tasya nidhanaṁ

paśyann api na paśyati

[SB 2.1.4]



*Dehāpatya*-kalatrādiṣu. This body, deha, apatya, children; kalatra, wife; *ādiṣu, with all these things... Then again extend. From children, you get... You get them married. Then again extension*-daughter-in-law, son-in-law, grandson. In this way, we are increasing our so-called happiness. Ātma-sainyeṣu. And we are thinking that "These surrounding friends-society, friends and love, nation-will give me protection." In our country, we have seen. Gandhi struggled so, mean, hard for getting independence, thinking that "We'll be happy." But Gandhi himself was killed.



*So this is called māyā. You try to understand māyā. Māyā means where there is no happiness, no fact, and still, we are struggling for it. This is called māyā. Try to understand what is māyā. Māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Prahlāda Mahārāja says. Actually there is no fact, and still, we are struggling for it. The whole universe is like that. Even you are situated as Brahmā or you are situated as an ordinary insignificant ant, this struggle for existence is going on. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "These rascals, they are struggling for existence for happiness which is not possible in this material world. And beyond this struggling atmosphere of material world, māyā atīte..." Atīte. Atīte means beyond. Māyātīte vyāpi-vaikuṇṭha-loke. There is another world. That is also informed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paraḥ tasmād tu bhāva anyaḥ 'vyaktāvyaktāt sanātanaḥ. There is another bhāva. Bhāva means nature. Just like this is nature. We have got experience, the māyā. Māyā nature means here our main aim is to find out happiness. That is... Because we are spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1] Kṛṣṇa, so we are also minute sac-cid-ānanda. Our existence is like that. But because we are very small, therefore that, I mean to say, quality, sat, becomes sometimes extinguished. The example is just like the spark of the fire. It is fire. A spark from the fire falls on your body. As soon as it falls it will burn that small pointlike place. So it has got the same quality. But as soon as it comes out of the fire, it becomes extinguished-no more fire. It is carbon. Again take it and put it in the fire, then again it is fire. So our position is like that. We are factually of the same quality, sac-cid-ānanda. So our falling down in this material world from Kṛṣṇa means we lose our identity of eternity. It becomes covered. Just like the same small spark. It is fire, but it is now extinguished, cinder, just like coal, cinder. So long it is with the original fire, it is also burning, but if you take it and keep it aside, then it becomes ashes. So this is our position. And we are struggling here. We have lost the fiery quality, and still, we are trying to be fire. This is called māyā existence.

*So there is another world. That information is given here. Māyātīte vyāpi. Vyāpi means very extensive. This whole material world is one*-fourth of Kṛṣṇa's expansion, one-fourth. And that Vaikuṇṭhaloka is three-fourths. So therefore it is called vyāpi. Vyāpi means very extensive. We cannot calculate even this material existence. It is only one-fourth. Now, how it will be possible for us to calculate the vyāpi vaikuṇṭha-loka? Vyāpi-vaikuṇṭha-loka. Vaikuṇṭha means... Vi means without, and kuṇṭha means anxiety. So Vaikuṇṭhaloka means there is no anxiety. There is no anxiety. Here we are full of anxieties in this material... Even big, big businessman, who has got enough money, you'll find he is in anxiety. He's always thinking, "How this business will go on? How this, maintain so many men?" So I have seen it that our printer, Dai Nippon, the president, when we, for the temporary, we stopped our business, he was full of anxiety. Yes. Now they have agreed to reduce ten percent more than any printer. Why? He was full of anxiety. (laughter) This is the fact. So don't think that very big, big businessman or one who has got enough money, he has no anxiety. Anxiety there should be. This is the place of anxiety, kuṇṭha. Prahlāda Mahārāja pointed it out that tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Here, in this material world, whoever is there... The Brahmā is also anxiety, in full of anxiety. Indra... You know. Pṛthu Mahārāja was sacrificing hundred times, and Indra became very much anxious that "If Pṛthu becomes so great, then he may occupy my seat." So he wanted to put hindrances so that he may not fulfill the so many yajñas.

*So everyone is anxiety in this material world, māyā. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to take a person or all of them from this māyā to Vaikuṇṭha. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to save the living entity from anxiety and bring him to the platform of no anxiety. That is the difference, from anxiety to no anxiety. That is the greatest gift to the human society. Everyone is full of anxiety because he is in this material world. He must be full of anxiety. So here the information is given, māyātīte vyāpi*-vaikuṇṭha-loke: "There is another atmosphere, another nature, where there is no anxiety, no anxiety." Kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayanatam. Here we are keeping cows, but no milk-anxiety. Thousands of rupees' spending, and no milk, powdered milk. You see? This is the position, full of anxiety, always. So you cannot be free from anxiety in this loka. Therefore in this life, in human form of life, you can understand by cultivating knowledge from the śāstra, from guru, from saintly persons, "What is the position? What I want? Why I am full of anxiety? How it can be mitigated?" So therefore this information is given vaikuṇṭha-loka, back to home. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6].

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only endeavor where, by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious you become transferred from this māyā to Vaikuṇṭha. This is the purport. Māyātīte, beyond this māyā, there is another kingdom where there is no kuṇṭha, vaikuṇṭha*-loke. And there is management. As here there is management, the king or president, or ministers and so many things, there is also management. But that management is conducted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead personally. Here the president or king manages whole thing. And therefore the ideal manager or the executive head is a person who is a saintly person and devotee. That is wanted. In politics also, there is need of devotees. The devotee... The politicians, they first require to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they actually want to do good to others. If they remain like animals, it is not possible. Then whole world, the people, will suffer. That is the position now. There is no standard ruler. A ruler must be representative of Kṛṣṇa. Then... Then everything will be... Just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was representative of Kṛṣṇa. Or Lord Rāmacandra, He was God Himself. Such executive head needed, not these rascals. Then you'll never be happy. Simply by hook and crook you select some rascal president; *you'll never be happy. He must be Kṛṣṇa Himself or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then people will be happy. Imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ. They are thinking that "The Bhagavad*-gītā is meant for some parasites. They are doing nothing, and they are indulging in reading Bhagavad-gītā and living at the cost of others." They are thinking like that. But actually the ruler should be the well-conversant student of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ. It is meant for the saintly kings. Because if the king or the president understands Bhagavad-gītā, he can make solution of all the problems. But he remains a rascal, and there is no solution. They're simply fighting with one another. This politician is fighting with another politician. This is going on. This will never make us happy. Therefore it is better to go away from this place and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: Don't try to be happy under these rascals. It will never be possible. That is the instruction of all śāstras, and therefore...



*Now, the question was who is to be elected in the..., or accepted as the ideal king. Our Pañcadraviḍa Mahārāja was asking this question. That is very simple thing. The kṣatriyas... There are two kṣatriya families, and still they claim, one from the sun*-god, and one from the moon-god. Candra-vaṁśa, sūrya-vaṁśa. In this material world, there are two kṣatriya families. Kṣatriyas are meant for ruling over. So everything is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So you have to select ruler from these two dynasties. Actually. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. You have seen the picture drawn by our artists, that Kṛṣṇa is instructing the sun-god. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. So Vaikuṇṭha-loka is there. There is no problem. But you can make this māyā-loka also Vaikuṇṭha-loka by spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the same quality. Just like iron is iron, but you can make it fire. How? Simply putting it into the fire. Gradually, warm, warmer, then it becomes red hot. At that time, the iron is no longer iron; *it is fire. Similarly, if you can propagate Kṛṣṇa consciousness constantly, then, by spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you can make the whole world Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then it will be Vaikuṇṭha. The same example. You put the iron rod with the fire, and it becomes hot, hotter and then red*-hot. When it is red-hot then it is no more iron rod. It is fire. Anywhere you touch, it will burn.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose. Increase Kṛṣṇa consciousness and there will be no more kuṇṭha, no more anxiety. People are trying to be anxiety*-less, and that is only possible by this movement. Put always in touch with Kṛṣṇa. And the method is very simple-Hare Kṛṣṇa. That all. If you keep yourself in touch with Hare Kṛṣṇa... We have already been known as Hare Krishna people all over the world, Hare Krishna people. So increase this population, Hare Krishna people, and it will be Vaikuṇṭha.

Thank you very much. (end)



750402CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.9

-

Māyāpur, April 2, 1975



Nitāi: "I offer my full obeisances unto the feet of Śrī Nityānanda Rāma, whose partial representation called Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, lying on the Kāraṇa Ocean, is the original puruṣa, the master of the illusory energy, and the shelter of all the universes."



Prabhupāda:



*māyā*-bhartājāṇḍa-saṅghāśrayāṅgaḥ

*śete sākṣāt kāraṇāmbhodhi*-madhye

*yasyaikāṁśaḥ śrī*-pumān ādi-devas

*taṁ śrī*-nityānanda-rāmaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Ādi 1.9]



*Yesterday we discussed about pūrṇāiśvarya, saṅkarṣaṇākhyam, nityānanda*-rāmam, the Deity, the superintending Deity of the spiritual world. Here also, anywhere, the master is Kṛṣṇa in His different forms. So just like for management we expand some secretaries, or personal representatives, similarly there is good management also in Kṛṣṇa's affairs. The original person is Kṛṣṇa, and His expansions, they are also as good as Kṛṣṇa, but departmental.



*So we have discussed yesterday that in the spiritual world, Saṅkarṣaṇa is the supreme manager. And so far the material world is concerned, the same person is the Supreme, but His name is different, Kāraṇābdhiśāyī. In the spiritual world, the name is Saṅkarṣaṇa, and the material world, the supreme superintendent is also the same person, but name is different*-Kāraṇābdhiśāyī. This Kāraṇābdhiśāyī is māyā-bhartā. Bhartā means husband. Just like a husband begets children in the womb of the wife, similarly, all these universes are impregnated in the total material energy, māyā, by Kāraṇābdhiśāyī Viṣṇu. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*The bīja-pradaḥ pitā, the father, is the seed-giving person, and the mother is receiving the seed, and then she is impregnated and they develops the body. As we have got experience, the creation, the creative energy, this is going on, the same process, everywhere. So this Kāraṇābdhiśāyī Viṣṇu-we have already discussed to some extent*-is the origin of this material creation. That, the scientists says, that... I do not know exactly what is their theory, but so far I have heard, that... There are so many theories. One of them is "There was a chunk, and from that, this material world..." They have no idea what is material world or spiritual world. But in that way a creation take place. Can anyone say what is the theory or..., of creation? Can any one of you say? What do they say about the creation?



Trivikrama: Their one theory is that there's a big chunk, and them from that, everything else came.



Jagadīśa: It exploded.



Rūpānuga: An explosion, a big bang.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Rūpānuga: A big bang. An explosion.



Haṁsadūta: There were some chemicals.



*Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the chunk came? That is not... That is their brain fag, that they are simply trying to get everything from matter. That is their material brain. But we see here that the origin is not matter. Origin is Viṣṇu, Mahā*-Viṣṇu. So Mahā-Viṣṇu is the supreme soul, mahā, Mahā-Viṣṇu. So we cannot accept such nonsense theory, that chunk exploded. Where is the evidence that a chunk explodes automatically? How nonsense theory it is. We haven't got experience. There is explosion of big, big mountains when there is dynamite, and the dynamite is given by some person. So how explosion can take place without the hand of somebody else, some living entity? This simple theory they cannot understand, that where is the evidence that matter acts automatically? Where is the evidence? How you can say that there was a chunk? Suppose there was a chunk. First of all, the question will be: "Who made this chunk?" And then again, next question will be: "How explosion took place unless there was some living being to explode, as we have got experience that sometimes we explode, explode the mountain with dynamite, and that is arranged by a living being?" So they have no common sense even, and they are passing as big, big philosopher, scientist. Then where is the evidence? Can anyone say? Is there any evidence that matter explodes without a living being's touch? Is there any? No.



Pañcadraviḍa: The sun. There are so many explosions are going on in the sun every day.



*Prabhupāda: That is the same thing that, that vṛścika*-taṇḍula-nyāya. Explosion is going on, but behind that all these explosions, all these transformations, is the Supreme Lord. That is here. And it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā:



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



They do not see who is behind this explosion. That is their ignorance or poor fund of knowledge. We have got practical experience that no explosion takes place without the touch of a human being. Similarly, even there was explosion going on, but there is a touch of the Supreme Being. That is the statement in the Bhagavad... Mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10]. We are seeing the explosion. Just like child sees the explosion. He does not know that there, behind the explosion, there is a management of a superior being. This is childish observation. Because in śāstra we see that behind everything the hand of the Supreme Being is there, and by our practical experience also, we see that matter does not act automatically without being touched by a living being, so how we can accept this argument, that the explosion is going on automatically? What is the evidence? There is no evidence.



So this is not... Besides that, we have to accept the Vedic injunction, śāstric injunction, not nonsensical theories. If we are guided by nonsensical theories, then we'll never be able to understand how things are going on.

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*You can go on observing, one after another, by many, many years, many, many years. Just like if you start your jet plane from here to see where is the original cause, panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara, and go on for many, many millions of years with the speed of mind, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampra... Koṭi-śata-vatsara... Millions and millions of years. And panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi. These airplanes, vāyu-ratha... Vāyu-ratha means airplane. There is airplanes. There are different speeds. What is the speed? The speed is mental speed. Now their speed, say, eighteen thousand miles per hour. But if there is question of mental speed, it is more speedier than the vāyu speed. We have got experience. Many thousand miles, by your mind, you can reach within a second. So with the mental speed, airplane, if you start today and go for many millions of years, still it will be not possible to find out wherefrom the explosion is coming. That's it.



*So that is not the way. Therefore śruti*-pramāṇam. Śruti-pramāṇam means from the Vedic evidence we have to understand. Now, just like in the Vedas it is said, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. In the Vedas, all knowledge was there, all the living entities described fully and with minute, exact quantity. Now, within the water, we understand from the Vedic literature, there are 900,000 forms of aquatics. Now, the modern scientists, how many they have observed or studied? But it is said exactly, 900,000. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Of course, you cannot enter within the water. But on the land, now different, and that is two million. How many species of plants and trees, and that is two million. How many the botanists have studied? Two million. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Even in your country, in your village, you'll find daily some new vegetable. You see? So these are the Vedic calculation. And not only that, there are different species of life, and how they are working, what senses are predominant in each and every life and everything is described. Everything is very minutely described. Therefore, if we want to have knowledge, you cannot do it by mental speculation. We should know that our mind is very, very limited. Simply by theorizing, it is not possible. Therefore tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet sampit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. So we have to know from the supreme authority or the Vedas. Then the knowledge will be perfect. Otherwise...

*So original creative energy is coming from this Kāraṇābdhiśāyī Viṣṇu. This is confirmed in Brahma*-saṁhitā. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. The jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ... Here it is also said, ajāṇḍa. Jagad-aṇḍa or ajāṇḍa, the same thing, or Brahmāṇḍa, the same meaning. Aja means Brahmā. So the Brahmā is the head of this aṇḍa. It is egglike. This whole universe is like an egg, aṇḍa. So as from the aṇḍa, from the egg, a bird is coming out; *similarly, from this egglike substance, Aja has come. Aja means who does not take birth like others, human beings or animals, but from this aṇḍa. So the Kāraṇābdhiśāyī Viṣṇu another name is ajāṇḍa aṅghāśrayanda. His whole body is producing universes. Ajāṇḍa*-saṅghāśraya. Saṅghāśraya means aggregate, congregation. Just like we have got holes on the body, pores in the body. So we do not know even how many pores are there in my body, but it is a fact. We cannot, even in a localized head, we cannot count how many pores are there from which the hairs are coming. Is it possible to count? And how many pores are there in our body? This is a little body. And just imagine Mahā-Viṣṇu. Therefore His name is Mahā-Viṣṇu. From His pores of the body, the universes are coming. From His nostril, with the breathing, universes are coming. So just imagine how many universes are there. The whole body is full of potency to produce universes. And it is continually being produced. Brahmā, brahmā bṛhatvād. bṛhannatvāt. This is the creation. And how you can accept this theory that there was a chunk and explosion and the universes became manifested? And these things are being accepted. Mūḍha nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. These rascals, mūḍhas, they do not know, and misleading... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. These rascals are blind, and they are leading some other blind men, and they are satisfied that "We have got all scientific knowledge." That's all. That is not the way of scientific knowledge. If you want scientific knowledge, then you should know from Kṛṣṇa. That is scientific knowledge. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Vijñāna-samanvitam.

*So we do not, I mean to say, become proud to have very, very scientific accurate knowledge by speculation. We are not such people. We are taught by the paramparā system that we are humble servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and what our master says, we accept it. That's all. We do not like to be foolishly proud to have full knowledge of this universe, of this creation. We have full knowledge, but we understand in this way. This is called paramparā system. Just like in the Vedas... Take for example the Brahma*-saṁhitā. It is spoken by Lord Brahma. Brahmā has got the full knowledge. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Because the full knowledge was given..., full knowledge of creation was given to Brahmā. We do not accept this nonsense theory that there was no human being, and later on, they became gradually civilized, and for the last two hundred years only they have got the intelligence, scientific knowledge. We do not accept these nonsense theories. We... Our understanding is: the first creation is the most intelligent human being, Brahmā, not that there was no human being, or any living being. No. The first creation is the most perfect or intelligent living being. This is our theory. Not theory; *it is the Vedic evidence. And he got full knowledge from the Supreme, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye, ādi-kavi, the original learned person, and then he compiled Vedas, giving full knowledge, what he experienced. And the Brahma-saṁhitā is there*-it is written by Brahmā. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā, the Kāraṇābdhiśāyī Viṣṇu is mentioned, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā [Bs. 5.48]. It is not that we are accepting this verse of Caitanya-caritāmṛta author. No. It is confirmed by the Vedic knowledge. This is the origin of creation, not that this chunk, or... No. Matter cannot expand. Matter, when there is reaction... Just like explosion. We have got experience that there is sometimes explosion like if you mix together two chemicals, acid and alkaline, there is explosion for the time being. But this explosion takes place when a chemist in the laboratory mixes soda, soda bicarb, and citric acid. Otherwise, it is not possible.

*So this is wrong theory that matter automatically takes the explosion or something like that. Matter is handled by some superior living being. Then it explodes or whatever you call. It reacts. Otherwise, it is not possible. And because the living being takes the superior position for explosion of matter or reaction of matter, therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is admitted that the matter is handled by the living being; *it is inferior energy. Both of them are energies of the Supreme Lord, but one is superior energy, another is inferior energy. That is the statement in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], this material things, earth, water, air, fire, they are inferior energy. And Kṛṣṇa says, apareyam: "They are inferior. There is another, superior energy." Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām: "There is another, superior energy." And what is that superior energy? Now, jīva-bhūtām, "These living entities." Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho. The superior energy is not produced by the inferior energy. That is nonsense. The inferior energy is produced by the superior energy. This is perfect. We have got experience that the superior controls the inferior, not that inferior controls the superior. Where you get all this idea? Therefore it has been described as aparā and parā prakṛti. And what is that parā prakṛti? Jīva-bhutāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. The whole world is being manipulated by this superior energy. Just like we have got experience that a human being, an engineer, he is creating a skyscraper building, not that a skyscraper building is creating an engineer. Where is this theory?

So these are all nonsense, simply nonsense, mūḍha. Of course, we use this word mūḍha, and people become very angry, but what can I, can we do? (laughter) The mūḍhas must be explained as mūḍhas. And because the mūḍhas are going as intelligent, therefore there is chaotic condition. (bird chirping) There it is confirmed. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to become intelligent, not to remain mūḍhas, and to expose these rascal mūḍhas. That's this, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So you must be prepared. While making propaganda, expose these mūḍhas. That is one of the service of Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain foolish. Wherever there is required, fight with these mūḍhas and tell them rightly, straightforward, that "You are mūḍhas."

Thank you very much. (end)



750403CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.10

-

Māyāpur, April 3, 1975



Nitāi: "I offer my full obeisances unto the feet of Śrī Nityānanda Rāma, a partial part of whom is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. From the navel of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu sprouts the lotus that is the birthplace of Brahmā, the engineer of the universe. The stem of that lotus is the resting place of the multitude of planets."



Prabhupāda:



*yasyāṁśāṁśaḥ śrīla*-garbhoda-śāyī

*yan*-nābhy-abjaṁ loka-saṅghāta-nālam

*loka*-sraṣṭuḥ sūtikā-dhāma dhātuḥ

*taṁ śrī*-nityānanda-rāmaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Ādi 1.10]



*We have already discussed Kāraṇodakaśāyī, who is the plenary portion of Saṅkarṣaṇa. Now, from Kāraṇodakaśāyī is Garbhodakaśāyī. Garbhodakaśāyī means this, within the womb or bottom of this universe, there is a ocean, big ocean, and in that ocean the plenary portion of Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu enters. This is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, viṣṭabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. By one portion, the Garbho..., er, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu enters each universe, and within that universe He creates a ocean by His perspiration. Now, there are so many questions: "How these oceans are created?" The scientist says that it is a combination of hydrogen and oxygen gas. So wherefrom this gas came? The answer is here. Of course, from the gas, water comes out. If you cover one boiling pot, the gas, the vapor coming... And you will find spots of water. So from the gas, the water comes, and from the water, gas comes. This is nature's way. But the original water came from the perspiration of this Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Just like you have got perspiration. You can produce, say, one gram or, say, one ounce of water through your bodily heat. That we have got practical experience. So if you can produce one ounce of water from your body, why God cannot produce volumes and millions of tons of water from His body? Where is the difficulty to understand? You are a tiny soul, and you have got a small body. You can produce one ounce of water by your perspiration. Why God, who has got the gigantic body, He cannot produce water, the Garbhodakaśāyī, the Garbhodaka water? There is no reason to disbelieve. This is called acintya-śakti, inconceivable power.



Unless we accept inconceivable power of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning of God. If you think "a person" means like me or you... Yes, like me or you, God is also person. That is accepted in the Vedas: nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are many cetanas, living entities, and they are all eternal. They are many, plural number. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. But there is another nitya, nityo nityānāṁ, two. One is singular number, and one is plural number. What is the distinction? The distinction is eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That singular number is particularly so powerful that He's supplying the necessities of all the plural number. The plural number, or the living entities, anantāya kalpate... They... You cannot count how many living entities are there. But they are to be maintained by the singular number. That is the distinction. God is person; you are also person; *I am also person. We exist eternally, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "You, Me, all these soldiers and kings who have assembled there, it is not that they did not exist in the past. They are existing in the present, and they will continue to exist in that way in the future." That is called nityānāṁ cetanānām.

*So this is the process of creation, that the Garbhodakaśāyī, here, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, from His breathing, He created from the breathing, from the pores of the body, He created innumerable universes, and in each and every universe He entered again. And entering there, He produced a lotus flower. Within the stem of that lotus flower there are so many planets. Just see the gigantic lotus stem. These are to be known from the śāstra. You cannot imagine how the creation takes place, huge creation. That sort of explanation-"There was a chunk, and it exploded"*-no, these are not explanation. Here is the explanation, in the śāstra. Śāstra cakṣuṣāt. You have to see by your śāstric eyes, not your limited, speculative eyes. That will not help us. Such gigantic business... You are a tiny soul. Your brain is very small. You cannot imagine the process of creation by your sporadic thoughts. That is not possible. So the creation means that first of all the universes are created through the breathing period of Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Then in each and every universe He enters as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and He creates... Half of the universe is filled up with water. The water came from His perspiration, and then He lies down there. Then He creates the lotus flower. And upon the lotus flower, a Brahmā is first-born. This is creation. That Brahmā means not an uncivilized human being; the most intelligent person, first creation. We cannot accept the rubbish theory of Darwin that there was no human being. That is his theory. That is not fact. He admits also that "I have made this by speculation." He has admitted. Our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara has quoted from his letter to a friend that he admits that he simply speculated. He has no factual knowledge. So you cannot understand the method of creation by your tiny brain's speculation. You give up this idea. This is not possible at all. You take knowledge from the śāstra, from the person who is perfect in knowledge. We have got knowledge. We have got knowledge. Somebody has got more knowledge than me, than you. But Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. You cannot find out a person who has got more knowledge than Kṛṣṇa. And God means one who has got full knowledge.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*So Kṛṣṇa has got full knowledge, and Kṛṣṇa's expansion has got full knowledge. So we have to receive knowledge. The same thing is supported in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*This whole material creation is existing in one part of His energy. That is also confirmed in the Brahma*-saṁhitā: eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. One part of His energy, just to create the whole universes, so..., the material world... Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa koṭi, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He does not enter only within the universe, aṇḍāntara-stham, but He enters within the atom. Paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antam. Yac-chakti, whose energy is there within the universe... And ananta. That is... The universes are ananta, unlimited. That is creation. You cannot conceive of the creation by your, this tiny brain. That is not possible. That is Dr. Frog's philosophy. He's contemplating about the Atlantic Ocean, living in a three-feet well. That's all. That is not possible.



*So this is the process of... Loka*-sraṣṭuḥ sūtikā-dhāma dhātuḥ. Dhātu. Dhātu means one who creates. So Brahmā is the secondary creator. Kṛṣṇa, or Viṣṇu, He creates the situation. Then He gives him a seat, that lotus-flower like, and when he was puzzled... In the beginning, everything was dark. He could not understand "Wherefrom I am coming? What is my duty? Why I am sitting here?" When he was puzzled, then from within there was dictation that "You meditate, tapaḥ. You undergo austerities. Then you'll gradually understand." So even Brahmā, the first creature of this creation, he had to meditate-"Why I am here, and what is the purpose of my coming here?" So we are also this, in the same position. We are the, I mean to say, dynasty expansion of Brahmā. Brahmā's son is Manu, or this sun-god. Manuṣya. Manuṣya means coming from Manu; therefore we are called manuṣya. So the same process: we are born ignorant, born ignorant. Human life is the chance to dissipate this ignorance, and that requires tapasya, not to live like cats and dogs, frivolous life. That will not help us. Tapaḥ. Tapo divyaṁ yena putrakā śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1]. That human life is meant for tapasya, austerities, not to live extravagant life, irresponsible life like cats and dogs. No. That is not human life. That is animal life. So therefore śāstra says that you undergo austerities. Then your existence will be purified, and then pure knowledge you will get, and you will understand what is your position, why you are in this material world, why you are suffering the threefold miseries, why you are obliged to die, why you are obliged to become old man. So many things you have to learn. But if we learn like cats and dogs, then we spoil our life.

*As Brahmā, the first created being, had to undergo tapasya to get information from the Supreme... The Supreme Lord is within you. He's there. But He will advise. When you are fixed up by tapasya, determined with vow, then He will talk to you. He's ready to talk, but you require to acquire the qualification to hear Him. And what is that qualification? This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service. As it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Such persons... (aside:) Don't do it. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām. Satata means always, twenty-four hours, not that five minutes I meditate and rest of the time I live like cats and dogs. No. This kind of meditation will not help you. Kṛṣṇa says, satata. Satata means twenty-four hours. You have to mold your life in such a way that twenty-four hours you'll think of Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you think, "Now I have chanted my sixteen rounds. Now I've finished my business. Now I can do whatever nonsense I like," no. Kṛṣṇa says no. Satata. Therefore we have to plan our life in such a way that we haven't got any other engagement than service of Kṛṣṇa. This is required. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām. Satata means twenty-four hours. Yukta means engaged. What for? What is that engagement? Bhajatām. Bhajatām, bhaja sevayam: to serve Kṛṣṇa. Bhajatām. How? Prīti-pūrvakam. Not that "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has said. All right, let me do." No. With love and affection. Then you'll get attachment. Unless you develop love for Kṛṣṇa, you cannot be engaged twenty-four hours. That is not possible. Therefore it is said, prīti-pūrvakam: not officially, but with love. If you acquire this qualification, then you will talk with Kṛṣṇa who is within your heart. Then you'll talk. He is ready to talk, but He does not talk with rascals and fools. One must acquire the qualification to talk with Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be able to talk with Deity. Within your heart Kṛṣṇa is situated there. Anywhere you go, Kṛṣṇa is within you, and He'll give you intelligence. Talking with Kṛṣṇa means buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam: [Bg. 10.10] "Those who are engaged, those who are qualified like this, then I give him intelligence."

*The same thing happened to Brahmā. Because he had to create this whole universe*-so many planets, so many demigods, so many human societies, so many, so many... There is no limit. He is the creator of everything. He's called, therefore, "great-grandfather," prapitāmaha [Bg. 11.39]. No, pitāmaha. Prapitāmaha is Kṛṣṇa, great-grandfather, because He instructed Brahmā. So the same thing: He can instruct you also. What is that instruction? Yena mām upayānti te. The instruction means how you can go back to home, back to Godhead, that instruction, not this instruction, that "You rot in this material world in this hellish condition of life." That, no. That instruction you'll get in the colleges and universities. But Kṛṣṇa's instruction is different. He'll give you instruction so that you can get rid of this hellish condition of life and go back to home and back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



750404CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.11

-

Māyāpur, April 4, 1975



Nitāi: "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the feet of Śrī Nityānanda Rāma, whose secondary part is the Viṣṇu lying in the ocean of milk. That Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is the Supersoul of all living entities and the maintainer of all the universes. Śeṣa Nāga is His further subpart."



Prabhupāda:



yasyāṁśāṁśāṁśaḥ parātmākhilānāṁ

poṣṭā viṣṇur bhāti dugdhābdhi-śāyī

*kṣauṇī*-bhartā yat-kalā so 'py anantas

*taṁ śrī*-nityānanda-rāmaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Ādi 1.11]



*So all these Viṣṇu descriptions beginning from Kāraṇodakaśāyī, Mahā-Viṣṇu, who is producing universes... Then next Viṣṇu is Garbhodakaśāyī, means the same Mahā-Viṣṇu entering in each and every universe. Then again, the same Viṣṇu, for maintenance of this material world, is lying on the kṣīrabdhi, ocean of milk. And the same Viṣṇu, Kṣīrabdhiśāyī Viṣṇu, is maintaining not only these universal affair, but also He is entering in each and every living being's heart, even within the atom. This is the expansion of Viṣṇu-tattva, Viṣṇu-tattva within this material world. So just imagine. For creating and maintaining, sustaining, the whole material world is a network of Viṣṇu's activities, and some rascal says, "There was chunk, and there was creation." This creation is so easy? And maintain them, hold the creation? If you create some center of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how much strain you have to exert to maintain the standard, status quo. Similarly, there are so many universes created, maintained. And there is another phase, annihilation. That is the process of material creation. We have got experience. Anything material is created is... The beginning, there is a date, and it is maintained for sometimes, then it is annihilated. Anything you take-this body, your body, my body*-it is created a certain date, and it is maintained for a certain number of years, and again it is annihilated. This is material world. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate: [Bg. 8.19] "It manifests sometimes and again disappears." This is called material world, and because it is never eternally sustained, therefore it is called māyā. It is not false, as the Māyāvādī philosophers says, "It is false." It is not false. Lord Viṣṇu is taking so much care to create this material world. How you can say it is false? It is not false? It is fact, but it is temporary. This is the difference between the material world and the spiritual world. In the spiritual world there is no creation and no destruction. In the material world, there is creation and destruction.



*Now we, being part and parcel of Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says personally, mamaivāṁśaḥ. So if Kṛṣṇa is not affected by this creation and annihilation, then we, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, why we should be affected by this creation and annihilation? We are very much afraid of being annihilated, and we are trying to discover many scientific, so*-called scientific methods how we may not be destroyed. Why this inclination that we may not be destroyed? Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore eternity of life is our aspiration. That is the proof that we are..., Kṛṣṇa is eternal, similarly, we are also eternal. But circumstantially we are now put into this material world. Therefore our main business is how to revive our original position, not to be annihilated, never annihilated. It is clearly said in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Actually we are not annihilated. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], nityo śāśvato 'yam.

*So that is our real business. This requires little intelligence, that "We are eternal. Why we are put into this process of taking birth and death?" Kṛṣṇa also says, "This is the real misery of life-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]." They are trying, the so-called scientists, trying to increase... If the scientists sees that a man was to die immediately-now he has lived one hour more*-he thinks that his science is successful. That is their foolishness. If you live one or two hour more or one year or two year more... In Allahabad we had a friend. He was very rich man. So he was on the dying stage. So many big, big doctors were attending, and he was begging to the doctors, "Doctor, can you not give me at least four years' time? I could finish what I have already attempted." So here we know the death is certain. Still, we make some scheme, big or small, according to idea. But we do not know that at any moment, death will come. "As sure as death." And this death is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Repeatedly we are taking birth and making big, big scheme, and we may be successful, but at any moment Kṛṣṇa says, "Now you get out and your all business finished. And whatever you have done, that is also finished, or I'll take it away," just to teach us that this place, material world, is not our place. That is our misconception, or māyā, that we want to make a permanent settlement in this material world, which is not possible at all.

This knowledge, they do not know. The scientists are thinking of making life eternal, immortal, like the Hiraṇyakaśipu's scheme, that he wanted to be immortal by tapasya. This is also tapasya, the so many scientific endeavor. This is also tapasya. But this tapasya is useless. It has no effect. They are trying foolishly to become immortal. That requires tapasya. Many, many demons... The demons do like that, tapasya for living ever. But they will not take the real method of tapasya, to purify. Their real aim is this material world, and here they want to become immortal. That is their foolishness. Here, nobody can become immortal. Even Brahmā, who is the creator of this universe, he's also not immortal. But they are trying to be immortal here. That is not possible. Tapasya should be... To become immortal, tapasya is recommended. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1]. Tapasya should be made. Immortality is your right. Because you are part and parcel of God, you are immortal. Now you are diseased. You are accepting birth and death. This is diseased condition. So try to cure the disease. Don't try to become immortal in diseased condition. That is not possible. You must cure the disease. If you simply imagine to live eternally, that is not possible. (aside:) Stop these children doing that. Immortal is our goal of life, immortality. That is the goal of life. But they are not taking seriously how to become immortal. That is their ignorance.

*So this how to become immortal, there is process recommended in the śāstras. That is in India. That is nowhere else. If you are actually serious about becoming immortal, then you should study the Vedic literatures from India. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that in India there is the process, how to become immortal. So He recommended, therefore, He desired, that Indians, you Indians, you have got the facility. Don't spoil your life by imitating the so*-called rascal scientists of the Western countries, but you take advantage of the science, spiritual science, which is in India, and distribute the knowledge because they are in ignorance. Therefore He says,

bhārata bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' karo paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



This should be the India's business. This whole world is in darkness, demonic civilization. And India, there is the remedy. So if the Indians take advantage and make his life perfect and then go to the Western countries and distribute this immortal knowledge, that is real business of India. Unfortunately, they are trying to imitate. There is no thing, nothing to imitate. And if you say they have discovered so many material comforts, that is all right. But with all your material comforts, you cannot become immortal. That is certain. That is certain. But you are desiring how to become immortal. That science is in India. That is tapasya. Tapasya means brahmacaryena. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena vā tyāgena śrota-śaucābhyām... [SB 6.1.13]. This, this is the śāstra.



*So if you want to learn that science, how to become immortal, then you have to undergo austerities. That austerities begins with brahmācārya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Brahmacarya means controlling sex life. That is required. If you can control sex impulse... Because that is the medium of bondage. Here in this material world everyone is working hard to enjoy sex life. That is the main aim. Main aim is... And that you will find, in your country especially, very, very prominent. In Paris very, very old men, they are going to the club at night simply for the same purpose. So this has to be controlled. Controlled means mind and the senses. And the prominent sense is sex. That is called control. So if you want to become immortal, then you must practice this. Of course, in Western countries, it is very difficult. They say, "It is impossible." Big, big men, they say, "It is impossible." Yes, it is impossible. Therefore śāstra has given concession that you require sex life, but enjoy it in married life, but no illicit sex. At least, stop this. If you want to be immortal, these things are to be followed: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling. Then you can think of immortality, gradually. That is called tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Every śāstra, you'll find. At least at the end of life one should be completely free from these bad habits. That is called sannyāsa. Don't cheat, accept sannyāsa and indulge in these things. Don't be cheater. That is very bad. Sannyāsa means to take vow. In other station of life, there may be we fall down. But sannyāsa means no, no falldown. Therefore we have now taken very seriously. Unless one is found completely competent to accept sannyāsa, there is no more use of awarding sannyāsa. So this is the process. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Brahmacarya is very, very essential. And that is, when one becomes detestful to sex life, that is the beginning of spiritual life. That is the beginning of spiritual life.

*So immortality is not very difficult thing. Simply one has to adopt the method, process, as recommended in the śāstra, and then you can become immortal. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... [Bg. 4.9]. Punar janma naiti-this is immortality. The Kṛṣṇa says, punar janma na. "No more punar janma." And if you have no punar janma, there is no punar death, punar vyadhaka, or punar disease. Punar means again. So if you can stop your punar janma-no more taking birth*-that is perfection of life. Therefore it is recommended that the guardians, namely the guru, spiritual master, the father, the mother, the king, or the government. The whole system should be so centralized that people may be saved from this process of punar janma. That is real government, real parenthood, real guruism-how to save the disciples or the citizens or the son, subordinates. They come to your shelter. Just like these children have come to the shelter of father and mother, the disciples have come to the shelter of guru. The citizens are expecting good government. So they are subordinate, expecting protection from the superior. Therefore the whole scheme should be how to protect them from repetition of death. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. We are entangled by this process of birth, death, old age and disease, and it is the duty of the guru, duty of the father, duty of the mother, duty of the government, how to save them from this process of birth, death, old and di... That is civilization. Otherwise it is dog civilization. What is the meaning? This is civilization.

*So whole Vedic system is designed in such a way that ultimately one is saved from this process of birth, death, old age and disease. Long, long ago, when Viśvāmitra Muni came to Mahārāja Daśaratha for begging Rāma*-Lakṣmaṇa to take them to the forest because one demon was disturbing... They could kill, but the killing business is for the kṣatriyas. This is Vedic civilization. It is not the business of the brāhmaṇa. So the first reception Viśvāmitra Muni got from Mahārāja Daśaratha, that aihiṣṭhaṁ yat punar-janma-jayāya: "You are... You great sages, saintly persons, you have given up the society. You are living alone in the forest. What is the purpose? The purpose is punar-janma-jayāya, to conquer over repetition of birth." This is the purpose. Similarly, our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also meant for the same purpose, punar-janma-jayāya, for conquering over repetition of birth and death. You should always remember this. A little mistake will spoil the whole scheme, little mistake. Nature is very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Very, very strong. So you all, boys and girls, those who have come from America, I am very much thankful to you. But don't be less serious. Be very serious. And another thing I'll request especially to the Americans, that America has got good potentiality to save the world, so if you preach very nicely in your country... And not all of them will be interested, but if a section of men in your country, you can turn them to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it will be great benefit to the whole world. But the aim is the same, punar-janma-jayāya: to gain victory over this process of birth, death and old age. This is not fiction; this is fact. People are not serious. But you can teach your people; *otherwise, the whole human society is at risk. They are like animals, without any... Especially this communist movement is very, very dangerous*-to make a big animals. They are already animals, and this movement is making big animals.

*So I am speaking to America because America is a little serious against this communistic movement. And it can be counteracted because the process is current since a very, very long time. Deva asura, devāsura, the fight between the demigods and the demons. So the same fight is there in different name, "Communists and the capitalists." But the capitalists are also eighty percent, ninety percent demons. Yes. Because they do not know the science of God. That is demonic principle. So there is good chance in your country to make them, or they rectify their demonic principles. And then they will be very, (I) mean, strongly able to fight with the other demons. Because if we become deva... Deva means Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇu*-bhakto bhaved deva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are devotees of Lord Viṣṇu, they are called devaḥ, or demigods. And those who are just the opposite number... The opposite number, also, they have got some god. Just like the demons, they worship especially Lord Śiva. Or Rāvaṇa, the example... We are not accusing unnecessarily. Rāvaṇa was a great demon, but he was devotee... Worshiping Lord Śiva means to gain some material profit. And in the worshiping Viṣṇu there is material profit. That is given by Viṣṇu. That is not karma. But Vaiṣṇava, they are not aspiring after any material profit. The material profit automatically comes. But they, they do not desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Material profit is not their aim of life. Their aim of life-how to satisfy Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu. That is Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇur asya devataḥ. Na te... And the demons, they do not know that to become Vaiṣṇava, that is the highest perfection of life. They do not know it.

So anyway, our request is that you all young men who have taken to this path of Vaiṣṇavism, and there is very good chance to preach this cult in your country, so even if you are not very much successful in other countries, in your country you'll be very successful. There is good potency. And try to make them stronger to fight with the demonic principles.

Thank you very much. (end)



750405CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.12

-

Māyāpur, April 5, 1975



*Nitāi: "Lord Advaita Ācārya is the incarnation of Mahā*-Viṣṇu, whose main function is to create the cosmic world through the actions of māyā."



Prabhupāda:



*mahā*-viṣṇur jagat-kartā

māyayā yaḥ sṛjaty adaḥ

tasyāvatāra evāyam

advaitācārya īśvaraḥ

[Cc. Ādi 1.12]



*So there are three principles*-the īśvara principle and the māyā principle and the jīva principle-these three principles. So Advaita Ācārya is īśvara principle. He belongs to the īśvara group. Even in communistic country, they call "classless society," but they are also creating a managerial class. They cannot do without that. They could not avoid it, managers. Why manager? Make classless society, all worker. That is not possible. There must be īśvara. Īśvara means controller. That is the beginning, from the creation, īśvara. So īśvara, there are innumerable īśvara forms, as it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Many, many, many millions and trillions of īśvara forms... It is stated in the Bhāgavatam that many... How many, how you can calculate? That is compared-just like in the river or in the ocean there are waves, but you cannot count how many waves are there. That is not possible. Can you count the waves of the ocean, going on, day and night, waves? Similarly, in big, big rivers... So God's incarnation, they are coming out, innumerable, just like the waves, but we can understand by the action that He is incarnation of God.



So the activities of Advaita Ācārya means that He's īśvara. He called Caitanya Mahāprabhu to come down. That is īśvara. You cannot call the Supreme Personality of Godhead to come down. That is not possible. But īśvara, or one who has attained the power of attorney from īśvara, he can do that. It is no otherwise possible. Otherwise, it is impossible. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāra. We have to receive the authority from Kṛṣṇa. Then it is possible to preach the cult of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. That means Īśvara, and anyone who attains the power of attorney from Īśvara, he's also īśvara. That is called power of attorney. He can act on behalf of the proprietor. That is possible. So Advaita, Advaita Ācārya did it. He inaugurated this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. When He saw that the people are so much misled that simply they are busy for the bodily necessities of life and completely have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, He became sympathetic. That is Vaiṣṇava behavior. Vaiṣṇavas, they are the best friend of the society, best friend, Vaiṣṇava. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. The Vaiṣṇava is always thinking how to deliver these fallen souls who are so much captivated with this false philosophy of hedonism-"Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." This is called hedonism. So they are always thinking how to deliver them. Advaita Prabhu did it; therefore He is Īśvara. Prahlāda Mahārāja did it. Any Vaiṣṇava who is actually feeling for the poor, conditioned souls, he must make arrangement for delivering these rascals from the death knell of ignorance. They do not know that nature is working, as it is said here, māyayā. Māyayā. The material nature means māyā. That is an energy, or agent of Kṛṣṇa, to act something, instrumental. Māyā is instrumental. Māyā is not all in all. Material nature is not all in all. That is foolish observation. This materialistic theory of creation-"There was a chunk, and there was..." What is called?

Devotees: Explosion. Blowing. Big bang. Shock.



Prabhupāda: What is that word?



Acyutānanda: Big bang.



Prabhupāda: Big bang?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Explosion.



*Prabhupāda: Explosion, yes. So they are seeing that explosion and the chunk, but they cannot explain how the chunk became exploded. Sometimes we see that some earth, by the sunshine heating, heating, heating, it breaks all of a sudden. So this explosion of the chunk does not take place automatically. It is due to the sunshine drying it, drying it, drying it, and at a point it breaks. Similarly, the chunk is also, we can accept, the total material energy. You can take it as chunk. But this material energy in the form of chunk is agitated by the glance of Mahā*-Viṣṇu. That is stated, sa aikṣata sa asṛjata. Material energy itself cannot explode. the explosion theory is there... Not theory, fact. But the total material energy, mahat-tattva, when it is glanced over by Mahā-Viṣṇu, then it becomes agitated, and the modes of material nature begins to act. So then these activities are executed by Mahā-Viṣṇu, by His glancing, simply by His glancing. The power... Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. Viṣṇu is all-powerful. So simply by glancing, He can agitate the material energy, and the creation begins. Sa aikṣata sa asṛjata. Eko nārāyaṇa āsīt. These are the Vedic information. "In the beginning, there was only Nārāyaṇa." Na īśa na brahmā: "There was no Lord Śiva or Lord Brahmā." We have studied that. Nārāyaṇa, the Mahā-Viṣṇu, er, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, He created, first of all, Brahmā. He is already there, from Mahā-Viṣṇu to Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Then He created Brahmā. Then, through the material energy and Brahmā's cooperation, the whole creation came into existence.



*So actually the original person for material creation, Mahā*-Viṣṇu, through the agency of māyā, He has created. Māyayā sṛjaty adaḥ. All this cosmic manifestation is created in that way. Those who are not devotee, they cannot see that over the chunk, total material energy, there is the vision of Mahā-Viṣṇu. That they cannot see. Just like you'll find on the ground, so many flowers and grasses are coming up. How? By the sunrise, the glance of the sun. Where there is no sunshine, there the vegetables do not grow. We have got practical experience. Similar... Therefore the field or the earth is not exploding with the vegetation. It is due to the sunshine. Therefore it is coming out. It is the real cause. Similarly, accepting that chunk, the total material energy, it is agitated by the glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Then it explodes and things are coming out. We can accept that in that way, but not that automatically there was explosion. That is not fact. Therefore to the foolish person, the power behind the explosion is not visible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "I am not visible to everyone, they being covered by the curtain of yoga-māyā." Mūḍhāḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Tribhir guṇamayir bhavair mohitaḥ.

*So this is our position. We do not know who is the actual architect behind all this nice material creation. That is Mahā*-Viṣṇu, and His incarnation is Advaita Prabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is directly Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa's incarnation. Nityānanda Prabhu is directly incarnation of Baladeva, and similarly, Śrī Advaita Prabhu is incarnation of Mahā-Viṣṇu. So all of Them are on the equal footing. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, śrī-advaita. They are on the same equal level. And then śakti-tattva, Śrī-Gadādhara and Śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. Gadādhara is the internal energy, and Śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, they are marginal energy. So Īśvara-tattva and śakti-tattva. So within this group, there is no this material energy because in the spiritual world there is no action of material energy, only spiritual energy. In the material world there is action of material energy. In the spiritual world there is no material energy. Therefore, in this Pañca-tattva, there is no mention of material energy because in the spiritual world there is no material energy. Māyā-gandha-hīna.

*So Advaita, Advaitācārya, is Īśvara, but there are many īśvaras. Even in this material world there are īśvaras, innumerable. But the śāstra has analyzed that the supreme īśvara is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: "There is no more higher īśvara than Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more. This is the end." You go on finding out īśvaras that... In material world, every one of us, īśvara. Īśvara means controller. So anyone controls, he can be called īśvara. But there are īśvaras over īśvaras. You go on searching, īśvara over īśvara over īśvara. When you come to the point there is no more other īśvara, then He's God. That is definition. That is Kṛṣṇa. You go on searching out, searching out. Just like... Generally, you know, Brahmā is the cre... He's also īśvara. He has created this universe. But he's not the supreme īśvara. He's created by Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. He's also Īśvara, but He is expansion of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Then He is also Īśvara. Then He's also expansion of Sankarsana. Then Saṅkarṣaṇa is expansion of Nārāyaṇa. In this way, you go on, go on, go on, searching out. When you come to the point that no more īśvara-īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, anādi... [Bs. 5.1]. So He has no ādi. Anādir ādiḥ: "He is the beginning of everything, but He has no beginning." How it is, that? He has no...? So many īśvaras have beginning. And why? Now, svarāṭ. That is the dis... Svarāṭ, completely independent. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. And it is explained by the Vedānta-sūtra-bhāṣya, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. Svarāṭ*-that is īśvara; *that is supreme īśvara. He has no īśvara. Everyone has got īśvara over, but Kṛṣṇa has no over-īśvara. He is the ultimate, Supreme. Therefore śāstra says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "All of them are Bhagavān, but the original Bhagavān, real Bhagavān, is Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So everyone is under Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta Kar says, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. Āra saba bhṛtya, servant. Even īśvara-tattva, viṣṇu-tattva, they are also working as servant of Kṛṣṇa. Advaita Ācāryas, just like He's Īśvara, but He's serving as servant of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore ekale īśvara... Na kṛṣṇāt caitanyāt para-tattvam param iha. They're... Above Kṛṣṇa, above Caitanya Mahāprabhu, there is no more para-tattva. Param iha. It is the Supreme.



*So in this way we have to study īśvara*-tattva, then śakti-tattva, jīva-tattva. That is knowledge; *that is education. Not whimsically suggesting something and talking foolishly and... Athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvam [SB 10.14.29]. If you want to know the truth, then you have to follow these principles, how to know īśvara-tattva. And how to know? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Then you have to go, approach the bona fide guru. He will let you know. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. No challenge. That is foolishness. No challenge. Praṇipātena. First of all surrender. You don't surrender to a foolish man, but you have to surrender. Now it is your business to find out where to surrender. But you have to surrender. This is the process. Without surrender, you cannot understand the truth as it is. That is the instruction of Vedas everywhere. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: [SB 11.3.21] "One has to surrender to guru." Why? Jijñāsu: "If you are inquisitive to know the Absolute Truth." And if you want to know something which is flickering, relative truth, that is another thing. But if you want to know the Absolute Truth, śreyaḥ uttamam... Absolute Truth means ultimate benefit, śreya. Ultimate... Yes, exactly the word, benefit. If you want ultimate benefit, then guruṁ prapadyeta. Who is guru? Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam: one who is expert in understanding the Vedic literature, śābde pare ca, especially transcendental.



*So we have to go through like that. As Caitanya*-caritāmṛta Kar is explaining, we have to follow this principle. Then if you are really inquisitive to learn the Absolute Truth, they will explain, as here it is explained that here Advaita Ācārya is īśvara, He's incarnation of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Sometimes Advaita Ācārya is called Sadāśiva avatāra. The Sadāśiva is also expansion of Mahā-Viṣṇu. So either way you say, incarnation of Sadāśiva or Mahā-Viṣṇu, it doesn't matter. But Advaita Ācārya is īśvara-tattva. He's not śakti-tattva. He's īśvara-tattva. And we are all śakti-tattva; *therefore there is difference. Śakti-śaktimān. Although there is no difference abhinna, but still, śakti*-tattva is superior, er, śaktimān tattva is superior than śakti-tattva. So in this way try to understand Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu, and Gadādhara and Śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. And... But they are so kind because they have come to deliver the fallen souls. If you sincerely chant their name, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda...

*Devotees: ...śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda.



Prabhupāda: ...they'll be very, very kind to reveal themselves to you, and your path for liberation will be open.



Thank you very much. [break]



*Acyutānanda: We can understand how Śrī Advaita Ācārya is the servant of Lord Caitanya, but how is Maha Viṣṇu and the Viṣṇu*-catur-bhuja, how do They serve Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: They are serving already Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you see? Sṛṣṭi*-tattva. Kṛṣṇa wanted the creation, and They were the agents to serve Kṛṣṇa. They are creating. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. They're serving already. All right. (end)





750406CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.13

-

Māyāpur, April 6, 1975



Nitāi: "...because He propagates the cult of devotion, He is called Ācārya. He is the Lord and the incarnation of the Lord's devotee. Therefore I take shelter of Him."



Prabhupāda:



advaitaṁ hariṇādvaitād

ācāryaṁ bhakti-śaṁsanāt

bhaktāvatāram īśaṁ tam

advaitācāryam āśraye

[Cc. Ādi 1.13]



*So gradually the author is offering respect, śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita. He has already offered respect to Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda. Now it is the turn for Śrī Advaitācārya. So advaitam, nondifferent, expansion of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Therefore He is Viṣṇu-tattva; *He is not jīva*-tattva. Therefore He is advaita. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Kṛṣṇa has got unlimited number of expansions: expansion, expansion of the expansion, then expansion of the expansion, in this way. So Advaitācārya is expansion of Kṛṣṇa, it is already explained. Therefore He is called advaitam, and ācāryaṁ bhakti-śaṁsanāt.



*This is the business of ācārya, to spread bhakti cult. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. It is said by the Lord that "You should accept the ācārya..." Ācārya means one who transmits bhakti cult. Bhakti-śaṁsanāt, spreading, goṣṭhyānandī. One who is not spreading-he is cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for his personal benefit in a secluded place, sitting and chanting*-that is also nice, but he's not ācārya. Ācārya means he must spread. Goṣṭhyānandī. Bhajanānandī, goṣṭhyānandī. So generally, goṣṭhyānandī means one who wants to increase the number of devotees. He's called goṣṭhyānandī. And one who is self-satisfied, that "Let me do my own duty," he is called bhajanānandī. So my Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he was goṣṭhyānandī. He wanted to increase the number of devotees. And the more you increase the number of devotees, the more you become very much recognized by Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa personally comes as He is, Kṛṣṇa, to spread this bhakti cult. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He's canvassing personally.

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

*dharma*-saṁsthāpanārthāya

sambhavāmi yuge yuge

[Bg. 4.8]



So same thing entrusted to another devotee, and who spreads, he's ācārya.



*So Kṛṣṇa says, the ācārya... Here it is said that advaitaṁ hariṇā advaitād. So of course Advaita Ācārya is expansion of Viṣṇu-tattva, but any ācārya, he is to be considered identical with the Lord. The Lord says that, that ācāryam māṁ vijānīyāt [SB 11.17.27]: "One should understand the ācārya..." Ācārya bhakti-śaṁsanāt. Ācārya means who is spreading pure bhakti cult. "That ācārya," Kṛṣṇa says, "you should consider such ācārya as Myself." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt nāvamanyeta karhicit, that... You cannot consider, "Yes, he's ācārya, but not as good as Kṛṣṇa." No. Na avamanyeta. Don't deride in that way. Then there will be falldown. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt nāvamanyeta karhicit. And in the Vedas also it is said, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau: [ŚU 6.23] "Anyone who has got unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality and the similar faith in guru..." Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ: "All the Vedic literature," prakāśante, "becomes revealed simply by these two principle." Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. We should not jump over Kṛṣṇa without the help of guru. That is not possible. You must go through. Because Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryam māṁ vijānī... Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: [SB 11.3.21] "Actually one who is serious to understand higher transcendental subject matter, he must approach guru." Tasmād gurum, prapadyeta. These are Vedic injunctions. Cakṣudāna dilo yei, janme janme pitā sei. So anyone who opens... Guru means who opens the eyes of the ignorant person. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Opening the eyes by giving real knowledge... Guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. So bhakti-latā, the devotional service, the seed of devotional service, can be received by the paramparā system through bona fide spiritual master. And if we abide by the orders of spiritual master faithfully, then Kṛṣṇa becomes pleased. That is stated by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Āra nā koriya mane āśā. Narottama dāsa... All the ācāryas, they say like that. Ācāryam māṁ vijānīyāt. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who has accepted ācārya, he knows things as they are." Others, they do not know. It is not possible.

*So Advaita Ācārya is the typical example how to become ācārya. All are our ācāryas, śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. All of them are ācāryas because they are following the ācārya, supreme ācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore they are ācārya. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So we have to follow the ācārya. Then, when we are completely, cent per cent follower of ācārya, then you can also act as ācārya. This is the process. Don't become premature ācārya. First of all follow the orders of ācārya, and you become mature. Then it is better to become ācārya. Because we are interested in preparing ācārya, but the etiquette is, at least for the period the guru is present, one should not become ācārya. Even if he is complete he should not, because the etiquette is, if somebody comes for becoming initiated, it is the duty of such person to bring that prospective candidate to his ācārya. Not that "Now people are coming to me, so I can become ācārya." That is avamanya. Nāvamanyeta karhicit. Don't transgress this etiquette. Nāvamanyeta. That will be falldown. Just like during the lifetime of our Guru Mahārāja, all our Godbrothers now who are acting as ācārya, they did not do so. That is not etiquette. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt na avaman... That is insult. So if you insult your ācārya, then you are finished. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya aprasādāt na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **-finished. If you displease your ācārya, then you are finished. Therefore it is said, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says to all the ācāryas... Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu and Śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, they are all carriers of orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So try to follow the path of ācārya process. Then life will be successful.

And to become ācārya is not very difficult. First of all, to become very faithful servant of your ācārya, follow strictly what he says. Try to please him and spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. It is not at all difficult. Try to follow the instruction of your Guru Mahārāja and spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the order of Lord Caitanya.

āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*"By following My order, you become guru." And if we strictly follow the ācārya system and try our best to spread the instruction of Kṛṣṇa... Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. There are two kinds of kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Upadeśa means instruction. Instruction given by Kṛṣṇa, that is also 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa, and instruction received about Kṛṣṇa, that is also 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. Kṛṣṇasya upadeśa iti kṛṣṇa upadeśa. Samāsa, śāsti-tat-puruṣa-samāsa. And Kṛṣṇa viṣayā upadeśa, that is also Kṛṣṇa upadeśa. Bāhu-vrīhi-samāsa. This is the way of analyzing Sanskrit grammar. So Kṛṣṇa's upadeśa is Bhagavad-gītā. He's directly giving instruction. So one who is spreading kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, simply repeat what is said by Kṛṣṇa, then you become ācārya. Not difficult at all. Everything is stated there. We have to simply repeat like parrot. Not exactly parrot. Parrot does not understand the meaning; he simply vibrates. But you should understand the meaning also; otherwise how you can explain? So, so we want to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply prepare yourself how to repeat Kṛṣṇa's instructions very nicely, without any malinterpretation. Then, in future... Suppose you have got now ten thousand. We shall expand to hundred thousand. That is required. Then hundred thousand to million, and million to ten million.



Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: So there will be no scarcity of ācārya, and people will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness very easily. So make that organization. Don't be falsely puffed up. Follow the ācārya's instruction and try to make yourself perfect, mature. Then it will be very easy to fight out māyā. Yes. Ācāryas, they declare war against māyā's activities, that māyā instructing that "Here is wine. Here is cigarette. Here is that..." In your country these advertisements are very prominent, holding both ways, wine advertisement, cigarette advertisement, naked woman advertisements, and sometimes gambling also, advertisement. What is that? Congo?



Devotees: Bingo.



*Prabhupāda: Bingo. (laughter) Yes. So this is māyā. And our declaration of war with māyā*-no intoxication, no meat-eating, no bingo-(laughter) these are our declaration of war. So we have to fight in that way because nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa without being free from all sinful activities. These are sinful activities. Therefore it is ācārya's business to stop these nonsense activities. Otherwise they'll not be able to understand, especially the meat-eaters. They cannot understand.



*nivṛtta*-tarṣair upagīyamānād

*bhavauṣadhi chrotra*-mano 'bhirāmāt

*ka uttamaśloka*-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

[SB 10.1.4]



*Unless one is very expert in killing animals, he's not bereft from Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That means one who is very expert in killing, he cannot understand. Therefore Christ also said, "Thou shall not kill," the first business. Nobody will be able if one is a killer of animal, small or big, ultimately killer of his own children, killer of his own self. The killing process is so nice that it goes up to the point of killing one's children. That is now happening. Killing business has so expanded that they are killing their own children. Just see the influence of Kali*-yuga. The children, they take shelter of the father and mother, thinking very safe. Now, in this Kali-yuga, even there is no safety under the care of father and mother. Just see how this material civilization is progressing. Very, very dangerous. Kalau naṣṭa-dṛśām. Therefore that Bhāgavata verse is there,



*kṛṣṇe sva*-dhāmopagate

*dharma*-jñānādibhiḥ (saha)

*kalau naṣṭa*-dṛśām (eṣa)

purāṇārko 'dhunoditaḥ



*Very, very abominable condition in this age of Kali. Very, very. It is the beginning of Kali. Now we have to pass through 427,000's of years. Kali-yuga will make progress in that way. And people are now practicing eating their children, and at the end of Kali there will be no food available. They'll have to eat the children just like the snakes do. The snake eat their own children. There are many animals*-they eat their own children.



*So don't try to repeat your birth again and again in this Kali-yuga. It will be not very happy life. Better sacrifice everything in this life and be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious and go back to home, back to Godhead. Don't wait for the next life. This is very seriously repeated, that "This life I shall finish my Kṛṣṇa consciousness business," and, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness business means to understand Kṛṣṇa rightly. And He's explaining Himself rightly. Where is the difficulty to finish the Kṛṣṇa consciousness business? If Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, what He is, then where is your difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is sending His representative ācārya to teach you, and Kṛṣṇa is within yourself trying to teach you if you are actually serious. Then where is the difficulty? Inside, outside, always, books, knowledge*-He is prepared. So where is the difficulty to make yourself perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? There is no difficulty at all. Provided you are serious, you can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious in this very life. You are all young men. You are not old man like me. I have no opportunity. (pause) (end)



750407CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.14

-

Māyāpur, April 7, 1975



Pradyumna: "I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is nondifferent from His features as a devotee, devotional incarnation, devotional manifestation, pure devotee, and devotional energy."



Prabhupāda:



*pañca*-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ

*bhakta*-rūpa-svarūpakam

bhaktāvatāraṁ bhaktākhyaṁ

namāmi bhakta-śaktikam

[Cc. Ādi 1.14]



*So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, has five features. Kṛṣṇa has five features. Kṛṣṇa means these five features. What are those? Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's manifestation, Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, Kṛṣṇa's different potencies, in this way. And Kṛṣṇa, the source of devotional service, He is Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, bhakta-śaktikam. To advance in devotional service requires spiritual strength. It is not so easy thing. That spiritual strength is also Kṛṣṇa, bhakta-śaktikam. There is nothing except Kṛṣṇa, ekaṁ brahmā dvitīya*-nāsti. So we have to understand Him especially in these five features for advancing in devotional service. Therefore His name is pañca-tattvātmakam, with five features, kṛṣṇam, bhakta-rūpa-svarūpakam. Kṛṣṇa is so kind upon us that... He is coming as He is. Kṛṣṇa is original, and trying to convince us about the necessity of our life, or the goal of our life. Prayojana, prayojana: it is necessary. It is not optional-compulsory. If you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will continue to suffer; therefore it is necessity. It is not that if you like, you can take it; if you don't like, you reject it. If you reject it, then you will suffer. And if you take it, then actually you will enjoy life.



So māyā is very strong. Although it is necessary, māyā is always dictating that it is not necessary. The real necessity is materialistic way of life, this is māyā's dictation. Māyā... We are now given a chance of māyā's jurisdiction. So māyā wants to punish us more and more, because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Great punishment.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭīyā dhare



*Māyā means to give sufficient punishment to the living entities who have forgotten Kṛṣṇa and wants to enjoy material life independently. They are called conditioned soul. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This conditioned life means we accept one type of body, we suffer sufficiently. It is simply suffering. There is no enjoyment. Where is enjoyment? To remain in the womb of the mother for ten months, is that enjoyment? Packed up in airtight bag? Just imagine, if you were put in airtight bag at the present moment, within three seconds you will die. You cannot live without air, even for three seconds. This is our position. And by māyā's arrangement, we have to remain at least for ten months within the airtight bag, embryo, within the abdomen of our mother. So if we cannot live for even three seconds without air, how it was possible to remain in that airtight bag for ten months? That is also Kṛṣṇa's mercy, to allow us to develop the body, so that coming out of the mother's womb we can live independently. To make us strong in the body. But the māyā is so strong that even within that position, the mother is also killing the child. This is Kali*-yuga.



*So to get a material body is not at all pleasure. It is always miserable condition, from the very beginning and up to the point of death, simply miserable condition. This is intelligence, that the miserable condition means we accept this material body. Therefore, to be out of miserable condition means not to accept again this misery. That should be the aim and objective of life*-not to accept. That we have repeatedly said. That can be achieved very easily, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this body, we do not accept anymore material body, provided we become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. At the time of death, if we simply remember Kṛṣṇa, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. That is the highest perfection of life, simply to remember Kṛṣṇa. That is also the statement in the... If we can consciously remember Kṛṣṇa: "Whatever was possible for me, I have tried to execute. Now this is the last day; *You do whatever You like. That's all." But Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He will at once take you back to home, back to Godhead. Ante nārāyaṇa smṛti. This is the highest perfection of life. Therefore we have to practice Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. By practicing sadā tad*-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6], this is required. Always think, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Kṛṣṇa advises "Always think of Me." Where is the difficulty? We have to think of something. We cannot keep our mind vacant. That is not possible. So make it a point, that think of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Think of Kṛṣṇa, and if you chant, if you engage your tongue, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and if you hear, then everything is compact in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So to achieve strength, Kṛṣṇa is prepared to help us in so many ways. That He is pañca*-tattvātmakam, He is coming as Lord Kṛṣṇa, and ordering, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Still we are making mistake; *we don't accept Kṛṣṇa's word. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, along with His associates Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu, Gadādhara Prabhu, just to teach us the same process: how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So our real business is that, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And if we take shelter of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, along with His associates, then the task becomes very easy. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. Very easy; *not at all difficult. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's method for approaching Kṛṣṇa is very, very easy. Now we have got this center, Māyāpur center. We have got hundreds of centers, but this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace. You have come from very, very distant places all over the world. So here, you simply take prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa twenty*-four hours, then your life is successful. It is not at all difficult. But we are so stubborn that we do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our misfortune. But still, as we struggle against misfortune, to become fortunate in the material world, similarly, we have to struggle against misfortune. Māyā is very strong. But the way is also there, how to get out of the clutches of māyā. Pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭīyā dhare. Māyā has captured by embracing, just like if you capture somebody very tightly, it is very difficult to go out. Hands and legs are all caught up. Similarly, we are under the clutches of māyā in that way. But māyā's business is just to punish, but as soon as we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, immediately māyā lets loose. Yes. Māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Very easy thing.

*So our only request is that take shelter of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, chant always śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, and Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (devotees chant also) Thank you. So it is not very difficult task. Anyone, just like the children, the boys, two years, three years old, they are also doing the same thing. Where is the difficulty? Young man can perform the same thing; old man can also perform; everyone can perform, it is so nice. So do not forget this principle,

*pañca*-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ

*bhakta*-rūpa-svarūpakam

bhaktāvatāraṁ bhaktākhyaṁ

namāmi bhakta-śaktikam



Bhakta-śakti, everything requires strength, so we can derive strength by chanting Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You don't require very high education, neither you require to take your birth in very high family. Ahaitukī. Execution of devotional service is independent, completely. It has nothing to do with material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. No material condition can check. Who can check it? If all the world over they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, who can check? No government can check, no communist party can check. Go on chanting; that is the principle. So ahaituky apratihatā yenātmā suprasīdati, and you will get individually and collectively Where is he? Haridāsa, he went to Moscow? He has gone (indistinct). He was chanting in Moscow. So people could not understand, they were asking, "What you are doing?" "I am singing some cinema song." (laughter) He was telling like that. Very clever. (laughter) "I am singing because the Muscovites, they are after Indian culture." So he said that "This is Hare Kṛṣṇa cinema song."



So somehow or other, you can chant even in Moscow.

Devotees: Jaya!



*Prabhupāda: Ahaituky apratihatā. That is the point. They are after... Anyone seeking after God, they are very much severely punished. This is their kingdom. But you can take this policy, that you are chanting cinema song, and they will not object. So ahaituky apratihatā. If some black*-market means has to be taken for chanting, we have to accept that. What can be done? Our business is to chant, so if there is restriction, śaṭhe śāṭhyam ācaret, we should be also very clever. So, anyway, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and be happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. (end)



750304CC.DAL

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.15

-

Dallas, March 4, 1975



*Nitāi: "Glory to the all*-merciful Rādhā and Madana-mohana! I am lame and ill advised, yet They are my directors, and Their lotus feet are everything to me."



Prabhupāda:



jayatāṁ suratau paṅgor

*mama manda*-mater gatī

*mat*-sarvasva-padāmbhojau

*rādhā*-madana-mohanau

[Cc. Ādi 1.15]



*This is the surrendering process of the author, Kavirāja Gosvāmī. Before beginning to write Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, he submitted himself to the lotus feet of Madana-mohana. (aside:) That child may be... So he is submitting that Rādhā-Madana-mohana... Those who have gone to Vṛndāvana, they have seen the temple of Rādhā-Madana-mohana. That was established by Sanātana Gosvāmī, the first disciple of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sanātana Gosvāmī established this Madana-mohana temple, and Rūpa Gosvāmī established that Govindajī's temple, and the Jīva Gosvāmī established Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. Gopal Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī established Rādhā-Rāmaṇa temple. In this way, in Vṛndāvana there are seven temples authorizedly established by the Gauḍīya-sampradāya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya. Later on, many big, big kings and zamindars, landlords, they also established many temples, big, big temples. And altogether, there are five thousand temples in a small city like Vṛndāvana, and thousands of men go to see the Deities in every temple almost every day, and especially during the four months Śravaṇa, Bhādra, Āśvina, Kārttika: July, in July, August, September, October. So Vṛndāvana is always crowded by many pilgrims, and anyone who goes there, immediately he feels spiritual consciousness, especially nowadays.



*So the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava especially... Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava means the followers of... [break] ...Mahāprabhu. There are four Vaiṣṇava sampradāya originally: from Lord Brahmā, Brahmā*-sampradāya; *and from Lord Śiva, Rudra*-sampradāya; *and from goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī, Śrī*-sampradāya; *and from the catuḥ*-sana, four kinds of sanas, Sanat Kumāra, Sananda, like that. So the four sampradāya is coming from time immemorial. So we belong to the Brahmā sampradāya, the Gauḍīya-sampradāya. Sampradāya means just like there are political parties, but their aim is to develop the country, nation's interest, although... Just like in your country there are political parties, Democratic parties. What other parties?

Devotees: Republican.



Prabhupāda: Huh? Republican. Although they are party, their aim is how to develop the country. Similarly, these Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, although they appear to be a separate party, but their aim is how to serve Kṛṣṇa. So don't think the party means some opposite party. No. Everyone has got for the advanced devotee to serve the Lord in a particular way so that the Lord may be more satisfied. That is their intention. Sometimes we also have some parties in the temple: someone wants to dress the Deity in a way, another wants to... Of course, they are not transgressing the rules and regulation, but still, everyone wants that "I shall serve the Lord in this particular way." We cannot change the original rules and regulation, but there is variety. We are not impersonalist. Every person has got to serve the Lord in a particular way, and that is allowed. The central point is Kṛṣṇa. So although there are parties, if the central point is Kṛṣṇa, so there is no dissension. It is a competition, that "My Godbrother, my Godsister, is serving such a way. She is so well versed in this art. Why not try myself to do something?" This is variety. That is not this ordinary party strife if we make Kṛṣṇa the center.



*So on the whole, for the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, means the followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Especially in Bengal, there are many thousands followers, Bengal and Orissa. They are mainly followers of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and you will find in Vṛndāvana, Navadvīpa, many Bengali Vaiṣṇavas, followers of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They are living there very, I mean to say, austerity, following austerity, no very much careful about the bodily maintenance. But they are living. They have practically no income, but still, they do not go away from Vṛndāvana. Similarly, Kavirāja Gosvāmī also took shelter of Vṛndāvana under the lotus feet of Madana*-mohana. Therefore he says, mat-sarvasva-padāmbhojau: "The lotus feet of Madana-mohana is my everything. I have taken shelter of Madana-mohanajī. That is my everything." That is Vaiṣṇava feeling. They think the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa as their only possession. But that is the greatest possession. What this material possession will do? One who has taken possession, at least one who is allowed to take possession of the lotus feet of Madana-mohana, is not very easy thing. If Kṛṣṇa gives him the facility... Kṛṣṇa is prepared. How? Simply by service, one can easily become in possession of the lotus feet of the Lord. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. We cannot bring in possession the lotus feet of the Supreme Being. That is not possible. But if we render service, He gives the allowance, "Yes, you can be under My shelter of feet."

Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore teaches us to pray to Kṛṣṇa just to become one grain of the dust of His lotus feet.

*ayi nanda*-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ

māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau

*kṛpayā tava pāda*-paṅkaja-

*sthita*-dhūlī-sadṛṣaṁ vicintaya

[Cc. Antya 20.32, Śikṣāṣṭaka 5]



This should be the prayer to the lotus feet of the Lord, not for any material benefit. That is not very good idea. We should not approach the Supreme Being some material benefit. Material benefit is already there. Everything is arranged by the Supreme Lord for everyone's necessities of life. There is no question about that. Just like if a person is in the prison house, that prisoner has no problem for his material necessities. The government has arranged already for his eating, sleeping and, if he is sick, medical help. That is not problem. The problem is that he has become criminal by transgressing the laws of the state. Now he should become a very good citizen and come out of the prison house. Then he is happy. Similarly, in this material world, so far our material necessities are concerned, it is already arranged. There is no question of becoming anxious for getting our material necessities. It is already arranged by God.



*Therefore Nārada Muni says in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

*kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasā

[SB 1.5.18]



*Nārada Muni advises, through Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, says, that "You, you have got this human form of life. Now you have no necessity for finding out where is your food, where is your shelter, where is your sex satisfaction, where is your defense. This is not your problem. You should try for that thing, means the thing which will give you relief from these material necessities of life." That is the advice. We are mistaken. We are... In this morning walk we saw that such a big nation, but the problem is food problem. Early in the morning at six o'clock, they are going to work. They are going to work. Why? Now, for finding out the necessities of life. So what is this civilization? Early in the morning, six o'clock... According to Vedic civilization, one should rise early in the morning and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, perform maṅgala āratrika, worship the Deity. This is the morning business. But the richest nation of the world, they are going to work at 6:30 for earning their bread. Is it very good progress of life? And the whole day they will have to work. Not only here, everywhere, for earning their daily bread, they have to go fifty miles, hundred miles away from home, and every city, in India also, the same thing, in Bombay. They are coming hundred miles off and hanging in the daily passenger railway, very serious condition. And it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that a human being at the end of the Kali-yuga will have to work... They are already working like an ass, and actually they will have to work like an ass simply to get their bread. The progress will be this. And not only that, the foodstuff, especially the sattvika foodstuff like fruits and vegetables, milk, rice, wheat, sugar, these things will be not available-completely stopped. So gradually we shall make such advancement. I have seen practically. I went to Moscow, and at least for us, it was very difficult to live there. There is no rice supply. There is no wheat supply. Very rarely... No vegetables, no fruit, some rotten fruit like raspberry and... So at least for us it was very difficult. Of course, milk is available and flesh. Oh, that you can have, as much as you like.



*So that is not human life. Human life is... Here it is described, just Kavirāja Gosvāmī's, mat*-sarvasva-padāmbhojau rādhā-madana-mohanau. Our only asset should be the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa along with Rādhārāṇī. Madana-mohana. Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful that He is more attractive than the Cupid. Madana-mohana. Madana means Cupid. Cupid is supposed to be the most beautiful person within the universe, but Kṛṣṇa is still more beautiful. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobham [Bs. 5.30]. That is described in the śāstra. And when Kṛṣṇa was present, we know from the śāstra or from the evidences that Kṛṣṇa was attractive to so many gopīs. The gopīs were the most beautiful women, and Kṛṣṇa was attractive to them. So just imagine how much beautiful was Kṛṣṇa. Not only to the gopīs; there were 16,108 queens of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore His name is Kṛṣṇa. He is attractive to everyone. Jayatam suratau paṅgor mama. So why He should not be attractive to fallen souls like us? So that is the position of Kṛṣṇa.

*Therefore, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, being attracted to Madana*-mohana, he is offering his prayer, jayatāṁ suratau paṅgor. Paṅgor, paṅgoḥ means lame man; *one cannot walk. At least, one cannot walk very swiftly. So jayatāṁ suratau paṅgor mama manda*-mater gatī. He is placing himself as manda-mati. Mama manda-mater gatī. Manda, this word, means bad or slow. So every one of us in this material world, we are all bad because... Why bad? Now, because we accepted this material body. Just like in the prison house, all the prisoners, they are bad. Why? Because they have accepted their home in the prison house. Therefore the conclusion is they are all bad. Maybe degrees of difference, but they are all bad. Similarly, anyone who is living in this material world, beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the small insect or ant, who are struggling in this material world... Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Kṛṣṇa said that "These living entities within this material world, they are My part and parcel" or "They are My sons." In another place He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*So Kṛṣṇa has got relationship with everyone because He is the supreme father, and we are all His part and parcel. Just like son, even in this material world, he is the part and parcel of the father or the mother, similarly, we are actually part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. He is the richest, He is the most famous, He is most strong, all-powerful, all-beautiful. Everything He has got. And we are sons of that Kṛṣṇa. So father's property is enjoyed by the sons. There is no... That is the law. It is not artificial. Then why we are poverty-stricken? Because we are condemned. Condemned. That we should understand. Therefore everyone, intelligent person, should understand that anyone who is in this material world, he is condemned. It doesn't matter what he is. Therefore our first business is how to get out of this conditional life in the material world. That is human consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So our business is to take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is our first business, not this "This is our business, where to find out my food, my bread, and get up early in the morning and running to the office or to the working place." This is not civilization. This is not civilization.



*Therefore he says that "I am a lame man." Mama manda*-gatī: "I am very slow, so I take shelter of the lotus feet of Madana-mohana." That is our business. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching all over the world this philosophy, that your first and foremost business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no question of so-called economic development, sense gratification. No. These are not important things. There are many missionaries, they open hospitals or similar philanthropic activities, but we never do that. So many friends advised me to open some hospitals, dispensaries. Oh, I flatly said that "We are not interested in the hospitals." There are so many hospitals. So people who are interested in hospitals, they can go there. Here is spiritual hospital. The disease is the other hospitals, they cannot stop death, but our hospital can stop death.

Devotees: Jaya! Hari! Hari!



*Prabhupāda: This is our hospital. We are therefore not interested with this kind of hospital. Our this hospital is treating the materially affected patient to get out of his four kinds of miseries: janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. One type of disease is to take birth; another, death; another, old age; another, disease. So we want to stop. This is not our normal condition of life. Because we living entities, soul, we are spiritual. Our identity is that we are eternal. It is not that because my body is annihilated, therefore I am finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is the instruction. The living entity, the soul, is not destroyed after the body being destroyed. The body is destroyed. It is being destroyed every moment. From scientific point of view we are changing our blood corpuscle and another body like the, what is called, film. One after another picture, one after, one after, one after, and when they are displayed, it appears one. But it is not one. There are so many pictures. They put into the machine, and when they work together, it appears that the man within the picture is moving. Actually, that movement is combination of many pictures. Similarly, we are growing. We are not growing, but we are changing body.



*Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. We are becoming... We are seeing that "My child is growing." It is not growing; *it is changing body just like the film spool. But because it is displayed in a very scientific way, we are seeing that "My child is growing." It is not growing. The actual fact is the child is a soul, and the soul is changing every minute the body. That is real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, authority says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara*-prā... [Bg. 2.13]. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ means accepting another body. So the child is speaking in one way now; *so when he will get another body, a young man's body, he will speak in a different way. The dog is barking because it has got a different body, and a scientist speaking in a different way because he has got a different body. Similarly, every one of us, because we have got different types of body according to my desire, we are acting differently. So if we come back again to the spiritual platform, then we will not work differently. We shall work concomitantly. Everyone will agree with everyone. That is spiritual platform. But unless we come to the spiritual platform-we remain on the bodily platform*-we shall speak differently. And as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, then we shall speak in one item only, how to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.

*So those who are too much materially affected, their progress is very slow. Especially in this age. In this age the symptoms of the human beings is described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam that prāyeṇa alpāyuṣaḥ.

prāyeṇa alpa āyuṣaḥ

(kalav) asmin yuge janāḥ

*mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo

*manda*-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ

[SB 1.1.10]



*This is the condition at the present moment. This is called Kali*-yuga. The first symptom is: our span of life is very short, decreasing. With the advancement of Kali-yuga, our duration of life is decreasing. Everyone knows that. My father lived so many years, my grandfather lived so many years, but it is certain I am not going to live so many years. And then my son is not... Gradually, it is reduced. Reducing, reducing, reducing. By the end of Kali-yuga, the duration of life from twenty years to thirty years will be considered very, very old age, very, very old. If a man is living for twenty-five years, he will be considered a very grand old man. Yes. That is coming gradually. So therefore it is said, manda, manda. Manda means everything bad or everything slow. Duration of life is bad, then their activities also very bad, always sinful activities. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. And if somebody is little anxious to take shelter of somebody for spiritual advancement, then he will accept some bogus thing, sumanda-matayo, some bogus incarnation of God, some bogus yogi, some bogus... They will take sumanda-matayo, will not come to the real.



*Real... Here it is said that mat*-sarvasva-padāmbhojau rādhā-madana-mohanau. One should take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Instead of taking shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he will take shelter of the lotus feet of some bogus. That's it. They are called manda-matayo, manufacturing something new: "This is our process of religion." They do not know that religion cannot be manufactured. Religion is eternal. Religion... Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Religion means the law given by God. The God is eternal; *therefore His law is eternal. So how we can manufacture? You cannot manufacture religion. God is eternal, and His law is also eternal. Therefore God personally comes, and He says that "You have manufactured so many religions, but that is not religion. You give it up. You give them up." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up all this nonsense." Then what should be my religion? Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, that's all. This is eternal religion. Mām ekaṁ: "Only unto Me." The religion is very simplified, but still, people are... Because mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10], they have got some nasty ideas, they manufacture different types of religion. Religion is one. That is eternal. God is one. That is eternal. Take anything, like gold. Gold is gold, always gold. Millions of years ago the what was gold, the metal, the same metal is still there. You cannot say, "This is Hindu gold," "This is Muslim gold," "This is Christian gold." Gold is gold. Similarly, God is one. You cannot say, "This is Hindu God," "This is Muslim God," "This is Christian God." God is one, and eternal. Therefore religion is one, eternal. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. God is one. You are also one because you are part and parcel. But you have created your struggle for existence because you are thinking otherwise without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Because you have created different types of mind, different types of desires, and you are trying to fulfill it, that is called struggle for existence. Otherwise you are existing eternally, and your consciousness is one: think of Kṛṣṇa. But because you are doing not, not doing that, therefore there is struggle. That is māyā. That is māyā. Otherwise there is no question of struggling. Everything is there, plain and simple.

So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are preaching that God is one and to think of God is also one and to become obedient servant of God, that is also one. Not that you have to become a different servant, I have to become different ser... Everyone is servant originally. So we accept to serve God. Then our religion is there; *our fulfillment of desires are there. Therefore the author said, mat*-sarvasva-padāmbhojau: "That is my everything. To take shelter of Rādhā-Madana-mohana, that is my everything. I have no other desire." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



*This is the solution. To take shelter of the padāmbhojau of Rādhā*-Madana-mohana, that is the solution of all problem. And for a person who has taken shelter of the lotus feet, samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam... Pada-pallavam. His lotus feet is compared with the lotus flower. The lotus flower has got petals, and the petal is just like in the shape of a boat. Everyone has got this experience. If you take the shelter of this boat, then we can cross over the ocean of material world very easily. You require some boat to cross over some watery span. So here, if you take one boat and if you want to cross the Pacific Ocean or Atlantic Ocean, it is very difficult. It may not... The boat may not go up to the end. But if you... Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam. If you take shelter of the lotus petal boatlike of... What is that lotus flower? Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Murāri, Murāri means Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of the boat of the lotus feet of Murāri... What is that feet? Mahat-padam. Mahat-padam means the whole universal creation, the cosmic manifestation, is also resting there. It is not only a small thing. Mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ: "And who is famous very piously." Then what the result? Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Bhavāmbudhiḥ means the great ocean of material existence. We are struggling here, trying to swim. That becomes vatsa-padam. Vatsa-padam. Vatsa means calf. So you have no experience. In our country, the, in the... The calf walks, and the hoof makes some hole, and there is some water also. So as it is not difficult to cross that water, similarly, the whole material ocean become like that hole of the calf's hoof. In this way you can cross over this material ocean and go back to home, back to Godhead. Why I shall go there? Because here, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. Here, in every step there is danger. Why shall you live here? Take this boat and go, cross the material ocean, and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the philosophy. Therefore our Kavirāja Gosvāmī is saying, mat-sarvasva: "Everything. This is my everything. I take shelter of You."



Thank you very much.

*Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Lord Brahmā was praying to Kṛṣṇa to please protect him because he had to associate with so many vicious living entities.



Prabhupāda: That everything will be cured if you kindly hear. That's all.



Devotee (1): What if we're going on saṅkīrtana or something like that, how can we be sure that we won't fall down, we won't overendeavor? How can we be sure that we're not pushing ourselves too much?



Prabhupāda: You will feel sure as you make progress. Just like when you are eating, hungry, as you feel satisfaction and hunger satisfied, you can know yourself. [break]



Devotee (2): How can we repay you?



Prabhupāda: You don't require to repay. (chuckles) I am not giving you anything. It is Kṛṣṇa's property. You repay to Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and He will be repaid. [break] Nobody can repay. That is the... Therefore it is better to remain always obliged. That's all. That's all right? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





750408CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.15

-

Māyāpur, April 8, 1975



*Devotee: "Glory to the all*-merciful Rādhā and Madana-mohana! I am lame and ill-advised, yet They are my directors, and Their lotus feet are everything to me."



Prabhupāda:



jayatāṁ suratau paṅgor

*mama manda*-mater gatī

*mat*-sarvasva-padāmbhojau

*rādhā*-madana-mohanau

[Cc. Ādi 1.15]



*That is sambandha. Sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana. At the present moment, in our conditioned stage of life, we have forgotten our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is our conditional life. Just like a son has forgotten his father, rich father, opulent father, and loitering in the street, that is our condition. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa, part and parcel, and Kṛṣṇa is full of six opulences. Richness, strength, influence, beauty, knowledge, renunciation*-Kṛṣṇa is complete. If my father is complete, and I am his son, beloved son, why shall I loiter in the street? This is māyā. We are thinking that we are made of something of these material elements: "I am this body. The body is made of this material element," bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. So this is our manda-mati. Manda means bad. This conception, bodily conception of life, is the cause of our conditional life, subjected to the stringent laws of material nature. This is our position.



*So Kṛṣṇa begins, therefore, His instructions that "Don't think you are this body. This is your covering. You are within this body." That is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa's instructions. And at last He, as a father, advises sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So when we do that, giving up everything, we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, at that time we revive our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. This is wanted. Therefore the author is instructing us, jayatāṁ suratau paṅgor mama manda-mater. Manda means one who cannot go very fast, or bad, manda means bad. Manda means slow. In this age especially, in Kali-yuga we become very, very slow in spiritual progress, although that is our main business. But on account of this Kali-yuga, we are all very, very slow. We think that "Spiritual cultivation is meant for old age. Now let us enjoy our life in this material world." That is our wrong conception of life. What do you mean by old age? Nearing death. So who can guarantee that he is not nearing death? Everyone is nearing death at every moment. Why should you wait for old age? That is manda-mater, bad intelligence. We should know that death may take place at any moment. Therefore every one of us are already old. (We) generally understand that old age means nearing death, but who can guarantee that there is no death immediately? At any moment. Therefore śāstra says tūrṇaṁ yateta anu-mṛtyu pateta yāvad, Before meeting your next death, you should endeavor so dexterously that you complete your Kṛṣṇa consciousness before your death comes. That is intelligence. Not that "I am now young man, let me enjoy. And in old age, after passing sixty years, when there will be no other engagement, at that time I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." No. Immediately, tūrṇaṁ yate.

Prahlāda Mahārāja advises,

kaumāram ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam



*He advises from childhood. Just like we are trying to teach even the small child to chant and dance with us, and they are learning. There is not difficulty. The small children, they are also taking part. Now somebody may say that "These children do not understand English. What they are hearing? Simply they are wasting their time." No, they are not wasting their time. The vibration is surcharged with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So even they simply hear, even though (they) do not understand English language, by simply hearing the vibration uttered by a Vaiṣṇava to a Vaiṣṇava, that will be effective. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Simply hearing will do. Simply by hearing they will become pious. And the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, somehow or other, if one takes part in these discourses, he will be pious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], simply by hearing it is effective. So from the very beginning of our life, we should try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Not try, but we must. It is not, what is called, optional. It is compulsory. If you want to make your life successful, then this is compulsory, from the very beginning to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.



*So especially in India, the atmosphere is very good. It is especially meant, within this universe, this plot of land known as Bhāratavarṣa, India, is the most sacred place within this universe. And of the whole land Bhāratavarṣa, in Bengal, it is very sacred. And the whole of Bengal, this Nadia is very sacred. And in the whole Nadia, this part is very sacred, Māyāpura Candradoya Temple. So by Kṛṣṇa's grace, you have got this opportunity to live here. Take advantage, full advantage of this opportunity, spiritually fortunate. This is the statement of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Not that I am manufacturing. We cannot manufacture anything, but we can repeat the words of our predecessors. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, in his Jaiva*-Dharma, or in Caitanya-śikṣāmṛta, he has stated like that. In the Bhāratavarṣa, Bengal is the most important place, and in Bengal, the district Nadia is most important place, because Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared. Don't take it leniently. It is very serious thing that Bhāratavarṣa is meant for cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately, the present leaders, they are misleading them. Anyway, you are fortunate. You take advantage of this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness which was spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself, in this land of Bhāratavarṣa, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1].

*That kurukṣetre is still existing. It is not a myth or mythology. The nonsense people, they may say like that, but Kṛṣṇa is the supermost person both in history... Purāṇa means history, itihāsa purāṇa. Saraṁ saraṁ samuddhṛtam. Vyāsadeva compiled the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam by collecting the most important news from history. Purāṇa means old history. It is not mythology. The foolish people, they say like that, "Mythology means something created." No. Don't take it that way. It is the essence of important historical incidences, record. Mahābhārata is also history. Mahā means great, and bhārata means this land. Actually it is a history. But foolish people, without understanding through the guru-paramparā system, they manufacture their own way of understanding; *therefore they are misled. They cannot take full advantage of this Vedic literature because they are misled. We should not be misled. We should know always that we are lame, paṅgoḥ. Just like a lame man cannot go very fast. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, even a lame man can go fast*-not only go fast, but cross over the mountain.

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ

paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim

yat kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande

*śrī guruṁ dīna*-tāraṇam



It is possible if we become obedient student of guru, then even though we may be dumb, deaf and dumb, still, we can become good lecturer. Mūkaṁ karoti vācālam, talk very much about Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa's grace, mūkaṁ karoti... Paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim, if one is lame man, he is made to cross over the hill, mountain. This is the mercy of guru.



*So bhakti, or cultivation of spiritual knowledge, is never subjected by any material things. Ahaituky apratihatā. No material thing can check us in our progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not possible. Never think like that. Simply follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Follow the rules and regulations and everything will be clear, very crystal clear. There will be no impediment. Always chant, hear; *don't waste time. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he is a moral instructor. He says about wasting time, he says, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhya svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ, "Even one moment of your life cannot be returned, even if you are prepared to pay millions of dollars." It is so valuable, time. One moment past. What is this month? April, now seven of April, 1975, past. If you ask one to return seven of April 1975, it is not possible even if you are prepared to pay millions of dollars. So just imagine what is the value of our time. So this time should not be wasted. We should always remain... You Western people, you know the value of time from material point of view. Material point of view. That is also good. Don't waste your time; *engage always yourself in some good activities. But for spiritual advancement also, we should be more accurate and strict, avyartha*-kālatvam [Cc. Madhya 23.18-19]. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has recommended that one who is always anxious to see that not a moment is spoiled, that is advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, avyartha-kālatvaṁ nāma-gāne sadā ruciḥ, vivikta deva deśa sevitam, like that. Upadeśāmṛta, you will find: "A devotee should always think, 'Whether my time is passed uselessly?' " Then he will make advancement. Don't be slow. We should be always very expertly alert not a single moment is wasted. Jayatāṁ suratau paṅgor mama manda-mater gatī. We are very slow, especially in the spiritual matter. Practically there is no intention all over the world. They do not know that the real business is spiritual advancement of life. They are so in darkness. Very unfortunate time, this Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. Now if they want to utilize, they manufacture some new ways of spiritual advancement. This is another difficulty. So many rascals, yogis, swamis, Transcendental Meditation, this, that, avatāras. Always ready to mislead you, always. If one is little inclined that "Let me do something, spiritually advance," this rascal will mislead. Very difficult position. Therefore, the best thing is to surrender to Madana-mohana, Kṛṣṇa. Sambandha-adhideva, Madana-mohana.

*Our most difficult position is sex. Māyā has given such a*-they call it nice-such propensity, sex, that it will create disturbances. Even though you are rigid, avowed, you are doing nicely, at sometimes, especially at night, it will disturb. It will disturb. Therefore suratau. Kṛṣṇa is the most expert in this conjugal love. Kṛṣṇa... Therefore we have to submit, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Suratau paṅgoḥ. We are very much feeble and very slow. And so far our sex impulse is concerned, here is especially mentioned, Madana-mohana. Sex impulse is called Cupid, Madana. But if we become staunch devotee of Kṛṣṇa, this material sex impulse will vanish. Because Cupid becomes, I mean to say, attracted. Even Cupid becomes attracted by Kṛṣṇa. We are attracted by Cupid, but Cupid is attracted by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore His name is Madana-mohana. That is the only remedy.

*yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravinde

*nava*-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi bata nāri-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*If you stick to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa save me," then this disturbing material thing, sex agitation, will not disturb you. This is the only way. Therefore it is said Madana*-mohana. Our spiritual life is hampered very strongly by this sex impulse. But it is material, the sex impulse is material, so we should try to tolerate, (indistinct) kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkhaṁ kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta-dhīraḥ. Just (try) to tolerate little and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, pray to Kṛṣṇa, "Please save me from these disturbances." And we should materially also control. Control means atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ [No I 2]. Atyāhāraḥ, too much eating, that is also agitating.



*So everything can be controlled by Kṛṣṇa's grace. He is Madana*-mohana. Therefore, our first business is to surrender to Madana-mohana and establish our relationship with Him. "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, I have so long forgotten..." That song is sung by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura,

mānasa, deho, geho, yo kicho mora

*arpilūn tuyā pade, nanda*-kiśora



*This is full surrender. Then Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66], He will protect. So tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. There are so many disturbances. So Kṛṣṇa says tolerate, and do your business faithfully. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follow the rules and regulations, and remain fully surrendered at the lotus feet of Madana-mohana. There will be no more disturbance.



Thank you very much. (end)



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*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 1.16

-

Māyāpur, April 9, 1975



*Santoṣa: "In a temple of jewels in Vṛndāvana, underneath a desire tree, Śrī Śrī Rādhā*-Govinda, served by Their most confidential associates, sit upon an effulgent throne. I offer my humble obeisances unto Them."



Prabhupāda:



*dīvyad*-vṛndāraṇya-kalpa-drumādhah-

*śrīmad*-ratnāgāra-siṁhāsana-sthau

*śrīmad*-rādhā-śrīla-govinda-devau

preṣṭālībhiḥ sevyamānau smarāmi

[Cc. Ādi 1.16]



*So, description of Vṛndāvana, Vṛndāvana and Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa situated there. The Vṛndāvana... Vana means forest, and vṛnda means tulasī. Mostly there are tulasī plants and other trees also, but all the trees are living desire trees, spiritual. They can serve Kṛṣṇa in any way, desire. They have become trees by their voluntary desire. They're all spiritual beings-there is no force-but everyone has got a particular tendency to serve Kṛṣṇa in a different way. So these trees and plants, they are also living beings. They are not ordinary living beings, but they have decided to serve Kṛṣṇa by supplying fruits and flowers. They want that service. Everyone has got his particular propensity. So someone is serving as the land there, someone is serving as the throne, someone is serving as the supplying agent of fruits and flowers, someone is engaged in His service as the gopīs, confidential servitors. The cows, calves, everything*-they are all different living entities. They are not made of these material things, material body. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. They are all also expansion of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. In one sense they are also Kṛṣṇa; *they are not different from Kṛṣṇa. Śakti-śaktimatayor abheda: "The power and the powerful, they are not different, identical." Just like the sun and the sunshine. So in the sun globe there is heat and light, and the sunshine, there is heat and light. So, so far heat and light is concerned, they are one. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency, ānanda*-cinmaya, ahlādinī... It is already described, rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt.



So whatever description is there of Vṛndāvana, that is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. They are not different. Therefore in the beginning it is said, dīvyad, "shining," or "divine," "transcendental." So we should not consider Vṛndāvana as ordinary forest. Here we have got Vṛndāvana on this planet. That is also not ordinary forest. The exactly the same Vṛndāvana as it is Goloka Vṛndāvana... There is no difference. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that

viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha 'be mana

*kabe hāma herabo, śrī*-vṛndāvana



Viṣaya chāḍiyā. Our present position is that we are materially diseased, so we have to become free from the material disease. Material disease means sense gratification, and the most formidable disease is sex. This is called material disease. So viṣaya chāḍiyā. We have to be, become free from the contamination of viṣaya, material enjoyment. This is the statement of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.



viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha 'be mana

*kabe hāma herabo śrī*-vṛndāvana



*"When my mind will be cleansed of all material desires, then I shall be able to see what is Vṛndāvana." It is very difficult to see Vṛndāvana with material desires. Bhakti means the first qualification is to become free from all material desires. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama

[Brs. 1.1.11]



You know all these definition of bhakti given in our *Nectar of Devotion*. So spiritual life means free from material desires. And material desires mean just to hanker after sense gratification. This is material desire. When we have no more desire for sense gratification, then we should think that we are on the spiritual platform.



So this description of Vṛndāvana is spiritually described; *therefore in the beginning the word is used, dīvyad. Dīvyad means divine. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. This is not ordinary material thing. So desire tree also described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29]*-the same kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam. This lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sevyamānam is described here as preṣṭhālībhiḥ sevyamānau. Preṣṭha-ālībhiḥ. Preṣṭha means very dear, and ālī means gopīs, associates of Rādhārāṇī, friends. So they are all Lakṣmīs, goddess of fortune. Lakṣmī... You have heard the name Lakṣmī, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, associates of Nārāyaṇa. Kṛṣṇa is Nārāyaṇa. So all these gopīs, they are expansion of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, the original Lakṣmī. This is spiritual world. It is not impersonal, neither nirākāra, formless. Everything form, but that form is different from this form. That form is sat-cid-ānanda form-eternal, full of bliss, full of knowledge. This is not this material form. When we speak of formless, that means without any material form. Formless does not mean Kṛṣṇa and His expansion, they are formless. They are not of material form. Aprakṛta, not material. Here everything is prakṛta. It is not, neither, eternal nor blissful nor full of knowledge. It is temporary, full of ignorance and always miserable, this form. We can understand it.

*So that is just opposite. This form is temporary. Everyone knows this form will be finished. Antavanta ime dehā [Bg. 2.18], Kṛṣṇa says. This body is antavat. Antavat means it will be finished. It grew at a certain date, and it will increase, it will stay, then it will dwindle, then it will produce some by*-products and then vanish. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes of the material body. Of the spiritual body there is no such change. That is the difference between spiritual body and material body. Therefore it is called sat. Sat means eternal; *there is no change. Just like Kṛṣṇa. His body is sac*-cid-ānanda; *therefore He never grows old. You'll never find a picture of Kṛṣṇa that He has grown old. No. There is no change. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam [Bs. 5.33]. Purāṇa-puruṣam means the oldest person. Because Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything... Sometimes they consider, "Because God is very old, therefore He must have big, big beard and..." That is imagination. Here you find the real description of God: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyam [Bs. 5.33], "Original," Purāṇa-puruṣam, "the oldest of all," nava-yauvanaṁ ca, "but His bodily feature is just like a fresh young man." That is Kṛṣṇa. You'll never find Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa, when He was in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, He was a great-grandfather, but you'll find a young boy. That is Kṛṣṇa. So that is eternal.

*Now our body is not sat. Kṛṣṇa's body is sat, cid, ānanda. Our, this material body*-asat. And because we have got... Asat means temporary, that will not exist. And because we have accepted this material body, therefore we are full of anxiety. Ultimately, what is our anxiety? We are always trying to... This is called struggle for existence, survival of the fittest. So we are trying to become the fittest, to exist. But that is not possible in this body. That is not possible, because it is asat; *it is not sat. And because the struggle is that we want to exist in this body, therefore there is anxiety. Asad-grahāt sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. The śāstra says that we are always full of anxieties. Why? Now, asad-grahāt: "We have accepted this body, which will not exist." Asad-grahāt. These are facts. Study śāstra in that way. Why we are full of anxiety? Because we have accepted this body. So our main business is how to get out of this entanglement of this temporary body. The people are not very seriously thinking, neither they have got sufficient knowledge how the temporary body is obtained, how it is changed, another temporary body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and we are changing one after another. Why this disease? "If I am, my position is, as I understand from Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]*-I am not destroyed after the destruction of this body-why I am in this position that I have to change my body?" Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. This is intelligence. When you come to this intelligence, then athāto brahma jijñāsā; then the inquiry about spiritual life begins. But unfortunately, we are in such a civilization that we have no time to think of this great dangerous position of changing body one after another, and we have accepted it that "There is no remedy; *we have to change or die for good." These theories, this ignorance, is going on, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only movement which is trying to educate man to this standard of knowledge, that he may at least think that "I am not this body, as I understand from the śāstras. I am within the body. So how I can become free of this material body?" That is our real problem. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9].

*So if we take it very seriously, then we become gradually advanced and eligible or fit candidate to go into the spiritual world*-dīvyad-vṛndāraṇya-kalpa-drumādhaḥ. We can go there. That is wanted. Be serious. Don't be misled by the allurement of māyā. Remain strong. And then, in this life, you'll be able to become fit candidate to go back to home, back to Godhead. Dīvyad-vṛndāranya-kalpa-drumādhaḥ. You'll also be one of the associates of Kṛṣṇa, as you desire. Kṛṣṇa will give you the opportunity to serve Him as you desire. If you want to serve Him as a gopī, you'll get that position. If you want to serve Him as cowherds boyfriend, you'll get that opportunity. If you want to serve Kṛṣṇa following the footsteps of mother Yaśodā, accepting Kṛṣṇa as your son, you'll get it. Accepting Kṛṣṇa as your son, Nanda Mahārāja following... We have to follow their principles, not that "I shall become Nanda Mahārāja" or "I shall become Yaśodā," "I shall..." No, that is Māyāvāda. You have to follow how they are loving Kṛṣṇa. You have to learn that. Then you'll get the chance of Kṛṣṇa's association.

*Dīvyad-vṛndāraṇya-kalpa-drumādhaḥ, preṣṭālībhiḥ sevyamānau smarāmi. The Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, generally, following the footsteps of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they aspire to become one of the assistants of the gopīs. There are others also who like to be the assistants of the cowherd boys. So our Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, śrī rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa raghunātha, they were all the assistants of the gopīs. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. These six Gosvāmīs, rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa raghunātha śrī jīva gopāla bhaṭṭa dāsa raghunātha, they were all very, very big men, not ordinary men-ministers, zamindars, learned scholars. They were not ordinary men. And they gave up everything. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was, they were ministers in the government of Hussain Shah. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was the only son of his father and uncle, very, very big zamindar, landholder. Twelve lakhs of rupees' income. Five hundred years twelve lakhs-twelve crores now. He was so rich man. Similarly, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, they were very, very learned. Jīva Gosvāmī was the nephew of Rūpa Gosvāmī, very learned scholar. So either scholar, rich men, big politician*-all of them gave up their occupational, material occupational duty and joined Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in His saṅkīrtana movement. So they were always absorbed in the gopīs' activities, always thinking. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was always thinking of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī's activities, and the Gosvāmīs, they were also thinking of the gopīs' activities. Gopīs' activities means to assist Śrīmad-Rādhārāṇī how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Preṣṭālībhiḥ sevyamānau. They are always ready.

*So in this way there is the description of the spiritual world. You just have a glimpse of the spiritual world, how they are perpetually enjoying blissful life with full knowledge. That is described here. Dīvyad*-vṛndāraṇya-kalpa-drumādhah-śrīmad ratnāgāra-siṁhāsana-sthau. There the siṁhāsana, the throne, that is also spiritual. That is not material. Everything spiritual. Simply in different capacity they are serving. There the water is also spiritual. So this spiritual realization, if we get the opportunity fortunate enough, then naturally we shall aspire to enter into the spiritual world. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara chāḍi' anācāra: "If you want to enter into this association of spiritual kingdom, then practice here the family of Kṛṣṇa." Just like here we are trying to be family members of Kṛṣṇa. Here Kṛṣṇa is sitting, Rādhā-Mādhava is sitting on the throne. He is the enjoyer, and we are trying to serve Him so that He may very nicely enjoy. This is called Kṛṣṇa family-center, Kṛṣṇa. Just like in ordinary family the head man is there, and he is the chief man, and all other-his wife, children, servants, and other friends, associates, even animals, cats, dogs, cows-everyone is serving the center point, master. Similarly, our Kṛṣṇa family means Kṛṣṇa is the master, and He is the supreme enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. And if we understand this point, that Kṛṣṇa is the center, He is the enjoyer, and we are meant for serving Him for His enjoyment, that is Kṛṣṇa family.

So we have to, according to the śāstric injunction, according to the spiritual master instruction, everywhere we have to organize this Kṛṣṇa family. So Kṛṣṇa family does not mean starvation. Kṛṣṇa family means to enjoy simply. Simply minus this material contamination. Chāḍi anācāra. Anācāra. Anācāra means not proper behavior. Proper behavior means to remain always pious, and improper behavior means to become impious, sinful. If you become sinful, then you cannot enter into the family of Kṛṣṇa; *that is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā by Arjuna-paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Pavitra. Pavitra means pure, completely pure, without any material contamination. So if you want to enter into Kṛṣṇa's family, then you have to become also completely pure. Otherwise, there is no chance. Completely pure of all material contamination. That can be done when we give up our designations. That can be done. If I think, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am vaiśya," "I am white," "I am black," these are upādhi, designations. And if we think like Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "I am not this, I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya, I am not a śūdra, I am not a brahmacārī, I am not a..., not, not this, not this..." Then what you are? Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor' dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 13.80] "I am simply servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Then you'll remain pure. And as soon as you will think in the bodily concept of life, then you will remain impure. This is the process how to give up this bodily concept of life. That is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam.

So in this way, in one life we may practice how to become free from this material contamination and execute devotional service as it is prescribed in the śāstra and by the instruction of spiritual master. If we keep ourself pure without material contamination, then we become fit to enter into the family of Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.

Thank you very much. (end)





661227CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 3.87-88

-

New York, December 27, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*tvāṁ śīla*-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ

sattvena sāttvikatayā prabalaiś ca śāstraiḥ

*prakhyāta*-daiva-paramārtha-vidāṁ mattaiś ca

*naivāsura*-prakṛtayaḥ prabhavanti boddhum

[Cc. Ādi 3.87]



*Naiva... Na, "never," asura*-prakṛtaya, "those who are atheistic mentality, atheistic consciousness..." They have decided not to believe in God, so it is very difficult. Those who have decided atheistic conclusion, they will never come to any argument. Otherwise to understand the science of God is not very difficult. If one is simple, he can understand. Everything is there. What are there? Tvāṁ śīla-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭhaiḥ. When God comes in incarnation or He sends His representative to reclaim, they perform wonderful acts. They are not ordinary, common men. Either God or God's representative, they act in such a way that it is not possible for any common man. That is the particular symptom of God and God's representative.



*So tvāṁ śīla*-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ. Parama means highest class superiority which is not possible for ordinary men. They take it as miracle or something, a story or allegory. But actually it is not. Just like when Lord Rāmacandra appeared, He made a bridge between India and Ceylon. There is no history in the world that one has made bridge over the ocean, Indian Ocean. And how the bridge was made? Not in the present, modern way, that making concrete on the ground and then pillars and then... No. The stones were floating. The Rāmacandra assistants, all the monkeys, what kind of engineers are they? They could bring, order, "Bring some stone." They had very good health. What is that? Gorilla. So they brought big, big stones, and they began to float. Now, one may inquire or may question, "How stone can float?" Why stone cannot float? If this big, big lump of matter, earthly planet and other planets, they are floating in the air, why the stone cannot float? If God likes, it will float. That is God desire. It is God's plan. Now, you can see that a ship on the ocean with 50,000 tons, it is floating. And take a grass and put it, or take a, I mean to say, a small needle. Put it on the ocean; it will go at once down. It is simply question of arrangement. A small needle will go down immediately to the depth of the sea, and a ship with 50,000 tons of loading, it is floating. So if a man can make such arrangement by some way or other that he can float a 50,000 tons of ship floating on this, I mean to say, ocean, is it not possible for God to float a stone on the ocean? Is there any reason to disbelieve it? There is no reason. And we can see. By God's energy these big, big lumps of planet, they are floating in the air. So as He likes... That is called omnipotency. If He likes, one thing will float. If He does not like, it will go down.

*There is a very nice verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I cannot recite it, but the purport I can say that... Prahlāda Mahārāja was praying that "The parents care to the children is not sufficient to protect him. And medical help to a patient is not sufficient to cure a disease or cure a man. And the shipping arrangement on the sea is not sufficient to protect a man from going down." In this way he has given so many list that "The counteraction which we are trying to put in our impediments of progress, that is not sufficient if there is no will of God. If there is no will of God, then it is not sufficient protection." Perhaps you know, every one of you. It happened to your country*-of course, long, long ago; *I heard it from papers in India*-that the Americans manufactured a ship, Titanic. (laughter) And it was considered the safest: it will never sink down. On the first voyage, with all important men, it sunk down. Is it a fact? So it is not that your arrangement is sufficient-unless there is God's desire.

Therefore the common saying is that "Man proposes; *God disposes." Therefore a devotee, he never depends in himself. He never considers himself, "I am independent." He simply depends on the supreme will of the Lord. That is devotion. "If God desires... If Kṛṣṇa desires..." Whenever we used to ask our Guru Mahārāja something, "Is it going to be happened like that?" some work, he never said, "Yes, it is going to happen. Yes, we are going to do it." No. "Yes, if Kṛṣṇa desires, it may be." He never said like that, positively. "If Kṛṣṇa desires." Actually this is the fact. If Kṛṣṇa desires, God desires, anything wonderful can be done. If He does not desire, however you may try, it will never be done. So just like we are praying to Kṛṣṇa, if He desires, we'll have a nice house. If He does not desire, we may remain here. It doesn't matter. But we shall prosecute our business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is nothing to stop, in whatever condition we may be. Ahaituky apratihatā. Devotional service is, I mean to say, without any impediment, apratihatā. Nothing can check it-that is devotional service*-in any circumstances. No material circumstances can check your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When it is, you are firmly convinced and situated in that position, that is real bhakti-yoga. Nothing can disturb you. Nobody can say, "Oh, for this condition, now I am unable to prosecute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That means he was never in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nothing can check.

*So tvāṁ śīla-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ. So when incarnation of God comes, He performs wonderful acts. Like Kṛṣṇa*-He performed wonderful acts. Leaving all things aside, simply if we take the Bhagavad-gītā, that wonderful philosophy... Nobody can deliver such... [break] There is no history in the world, no comparison, such full information of the science of God. And other acts we hear from..., just like in childhood He played so many wonderful things. So those who are surrendered, they believe and therefore they receive the desired result. Tvāṁ śīla-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ. And the activities of God and His representative are described where? In scriptures, book of authority. Vyāsadeva had no business, or Śukadeva Gosvāmī had no business to describe some fiction, some allegory. Just like fools, they interpret śāstras, "This means this. This means that," according to their own..., as if God left for commentary of that fool, left everything for commentation for that fool. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā in the beginning it is stated, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. Now, this dharma-kṣetra, kuru-kṣetra, is described by some eminent politician as this body. Now, there is no dictionary in the world where it is stated that kuru-kṣetra means this body, but still, he is interpreting in that way, as if Kṛṣṇa left for him that "In future kuru-kṣetra meaning will be disclosed by that fool."

*So these things are going on. These things are going on. And people are captivated by nice explanation. Oh, the theory is that "Everyone can interpret in his own way, everyone is free, everyone is God," and everything, all nonsense. No. We should give up that nonsensical way of realizing God. We should learn from the authorized scripture. Sattvena sāttvikatayā prabalaiś ca śāstraiḥ. Śāstraiḥ, in the scriptures, they are described. Now, that scriptures are to be accepted without any argument. Without any argument... Just we have given the example of cow dung. The cow dung is stated as purest. In one place it is stated that "Stool of animal is impure. If anyone touches, he will have to take his bath and then purify himself." But for cow dung it is stated, "If there is any impure place, just smear over it cow dung and it will be all nice." Now, argument is, "How is that, that one place you say that stool of animal is impure, and again one place you say cow dung is pure?" That is not contradiction. That is actually the fact. And modern scientists have analyzed cow dung, and he has found it is full of antiseptic properties. It is God's wish. Now, take for example cow. What cow eating? Grass, dry grass. And what it is producing? It is producing the nicest thing, milk, full of vitamins. Now, if you think, "Oh, then a dry grass and straw contains all vitamins. Let me eat," you will die. You will die. It is God's arrangement. The cow can produce the most vitaminous foodstuff by eating the dry grass. It is God's desire. The cow will eat at least twenty pounds of grass, and how it can eat the grains? It is not possible. So just like elephant*-it will eat hundred pounds of thing. He must eat all these branches and twigs. So everything is God's arrangement. We have to accept that. Sattvena sāttvikatayā prabalaiś ca śāstraiḥ.

*So in the authoritative śāstra, the activities of God is mentioned there, and practically it is demonstrated when God is present. And prakhyāta*-daiva-paramārtha-vidāṁ mataiś ca. Mata means opinion. Just like we try to take opinion from a person who is accepted. Just like you are selling your Back to Godhead by Ginsberg's name because he is popular. So similarly, there are popular representative, popular authors, just like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, Kumāra, Kapila, Manu. They have accepted. They have accepted. Even in the modern age, Śaṅkarācārya, he accepted Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And what to speak of other ācāryas. They have... They are Vaiṣṇavas. They will naturally. So we have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. So there are opinions of great scholars and stalwarts, and there is mention in the śāstra, in the scriptures. And the activities have shown practically. So these things are there. And still, those who are atheists, they will not do it. They will not do it.

Similarly, the other part is that,

*ullaṅhita*-trividha-sīma-samātīśāyi-

*sambhāvanaṁ tava parivraḍhima*-svabhāvam

*māyā*-balena bhavatāpi nighuḥyamānaṁ

*paśyanti kecid aniśaṁ tvad*-ananya-bhāvāḥ

[Cc. Ādi 3.89]



*Similarly, God may hide Himself by His yogamāyā, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. Just like the sun is covered by the glaring disk. You will find if you look into the sun disk you will find a one circle is moving like that. Similarly, in the Upaniṣad also, we find that the Supreme Lord is hidden within the brahmajyoti. The exact verse I forget just now. It is stated that "Please remove this cover so that I can see You actually." So within the brahmajyoti there is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So ordinarily people are amazed with simply brahmajyoti. They do not go deep into the matter. So ullaṅhita-trividha-sīma-samātīśāyi. God is beyond the limitation of our thinking and philosophical speculation. Sambhāvanaṁ tava parivraḍhima-svabhāvam: "Your very grave and confidential activities, it is very difficult to understand by ordinary men." Māyā-balena bhavatāpi niguhyamānam. Māyā-balena: "That yogamāyā, although it is covered in that way all Your activities," paśyanti, "somebody can see You." Paśyanty kecid aniśam: "Not sometimes or accidentally, but aniśam, continually, he can see You." Paśyanti kecid aniśam tvad-ananya-bhāvāḥ. Ananya-bhāvāḥ means "Those who have unflinching devotion unto You." They can see. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. Although God is covered in that way...



*There is very good instance in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. While Kṛṣṇa was dancing with the vraja-gopīs, He all of a sudden disappeared and all the gopīs, they became mad after Him and began to search in the forest: "Where is Kṛṣṇa?" So Kṛṣṇa, at one place, He situated Himself as Viṣṇu, as Viṣṇu, with four hands. Then gopīs, in their search after Kṛṣṇa, they saw: "Here is Viṣṇu sitting." So they did not care. "Oh, He is Viṣṇu. We don't want." Now see. They are seeing Viṣṇu is sitting, but they do not care for Viṣṇu: "Oh, we don't want this." They do not care for even Viṣṇu. They are searching after Kṛṣṇa. And when Rādhārāṇī came, Kṛṣṇa could not hide Himself with four hands. He had to become two-handed. The Rādhārāṇī's love was so forceful that Kṛṣṇa could not retain His hiding, I mean to say, feature of Viṣṇu. So for other gopīs He could hide Himself, but they did not care. They simply offered their..., "Oh, Viṣṇu. All right." But they want Kṛṣṇa. But when Rādhārāṇī came, Kṛṣṇa could not hide Himself with His four hands. He became immediately two-handed as Kṛṣṇa.

So it is the force of love. It is the force of ecstasy that will help you in understanding the science of Kṛṣṇa, not other way. Not other. You cannot make a speculation; *you cannot... Because what is your power of speculating power? Your senses are limited. In conditioned stage our power of, I mean to say, acquiring knowledge through the senses, that is limited. So by limited senses you cannot go. Therefore acintya. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintya. It is beyond our jurisdiction of thinking, understanding. So there is no other alternative than to follow this principle, follow this principle, to follow the opinion of ācārya. Ācāryopāsanam. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated, "If if you want to make progress in knowledge, then you have to follow." Ācāryopāsanam: "You have to worship ācārya." Ācāryopāsanam. In the Veda it is: ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Veda means knowledge, one who knows. Who knows? "Who has got ācārya to guide him." Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. So similarly, therefore, this Vedic system always gives us injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "One must go to the authority." And how to become authority? There is no question of research, this research. Just like in the material world one becomes doctorate by research work, here there is no question of research. You simply have to accept what is stated in the Veda. That's all. That makes you all right. Research is already done. There is no question of taking trouble yourself. You simply accept. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up everything and surrender unto Me." And if we foolishly go on seeing, "Oh, why shall I surrender?" as some very learned commentator, "Not to Kṛṣṇa, but somebody else..." Not like that. Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender." Surrender yourself and you will see how you are making progress. That is the thing. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender." You surrender. That will make you happy. There is no question, "All right. Let me research, make research whether by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa I shall be happy." Go on. You can. If you want, you can go on researching. But you will never be successful to... Even in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ [Bs. 5.34] If you make research in a speed, and the speed is stated, koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām... Just like if you want to cover a path which is very long, and how you measure its length? Now, by research. What is that research? Now, you go on by force. What is that force? The force of mind and force of velocity of the wind, velocity of the wind and velocity of the mind. And you push on in that way for ten millions or more than years in that way, still, you will find avicintya: you have not reached the goal. Research. If you make your research in such a speed and for many millions of years, still, avicintya-tattva, still it will be inconceivable.

So the best thing is that to believe it, and accept the opinion of authorities, and believe by the activities of God and His incarnation, and submit yourself to get the thing. That's all.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)





740301CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.1

-

Māyāpur, March 1, 1974



Pradyumna: Translation: "Let me first offer my respectful obeisances unto Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is the ultimate goal of life for one bereft of all possessions in this material world and is the only meaning for one advancing in spiritual life. Thus let me write about His magnanimous contribution of devotional service in love of God."



Prabhupāda:



*agaty*-eka-gatiṁ natvā

*hīnārthādhika*-sādhakam

*śrī*-caitanyaṁ likhyate asya

*prema*-bhakti-vadānyatā

[Cc. Ādi 7.1]



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... This is the place of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, appearance site of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Śrīdhāma Māyāpur. So in this place this is the appropriate literature, Śrī*-caitanya-caritāmṛta. We may try to discuss during these holy days. Last year some gentleman suggested, after seeing my all literatures, that "You kindly write a translation of Śrī-Caitanya-caritāmṛta." He thought that this business I can do very nicely. So I took the initiation from this gentleman and began to write. Now it is almost complete. I am now translating Madhya-līlā, Twentieth chapter, the discussion, 'sanātana-śikṣā.' So it is estimated that ten volumes like this... (aside:) You think like that? Ten volumes like this, that will complete Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya-caritāmṛta is the postgraduate study of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Bhagavad-gītā is the A-B-C-D to entrance, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the graduate study, and Śrī-Caitanya-caritāmṛta is the postgraduate study of spiritual life. My Guru Mahārāja, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, whenever he got some time he used to read Caitanya-caritāmṛta. And he predicted that the whole world like to read Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and for this reason they'll learn Bengali. Therefore, following his footsteps, I have kept the Bengali character and tried to give the literary meaning of each word of the Bengali poem. This is, of course, Sanskrit. This book is full of Sanskrit verses. Some of them are composed by the author himself, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, and some of them are quoted from various literature, Vedic literature.



*So the author is accepting Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, agaty-eka-gatim. Agati. Agati means... Gati means movement, and gati means also destination. So agati. At the present moment, especially in this age of Kali, people are not moving. Moving means... We are moving. This moving is not very good. Moving means material movement. Moving... We are not... Not that we are not moving, but we are moving, but agati-we do not know what is the destination of the movement in this age. The trees are not moving, but we are moving. But that movement has not very much improved our condition. Real movement means to go forward to reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Svārtha-gatim. This gatim again. As it is said gatim, the same word is used in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, svārtha-gatim. Why one should move? Unless one knows the destination, the goal of life, why one should move forward? So at the present moment they are moving, but they do not know which side they should move. That is the defect of this age, Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ, sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. Because they are moving, but not very rapidly... The real purpose of movement is svārtha-gatim, Viṣṇu. That they do not know. They do not know. The materialistic world, at the present moment, that they do not know that where the movement should terminate, where is the destination. That they do not know. Na te svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum, na te viduḥ. Na te. Not only in this age, that is the state of material life. Those who are passing in materialistic way of life, they are thinking that sense gratification is the ultimate goal of life, indriya-prītaye. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. They have become mad, pramattaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Movement means we are doing something, not inactive, just like stone. [break] But we are doing something. That is called movement. But what kinds of activities we are doing? Because we are madness*-we are mad after sense gratification... Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Vikarma means things which we should not do. Karma means prescribed duties, and vikarma means actions which are not prescribed, whimsical, simply for sense gratification. That is called vikarma. Karma, vikarma, akarma. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Why? Yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti. Indriya-prītaye means for satisfaction of the senses. In the Kali-yuga, for satisfaction of the senses one can do anything, any horrible thing, abominable thing. That is called rascaldom. They do not know what to do. So Ṛṣabhadeva says this is not good. If simply for sense gratification you are acting so whimsically, as you like, as you please, this process of activities, or gati, is not good. Na sādhu manye, Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Oh, it is not good." Why it is not good? Now, yata... "Because, you just try to understand, you have got this body on account of your past misdeeds, this body, this material body." These rascals, they do not know. They think that "If I get a body of a king or a rich man, that is my success." But that is not success, because you may get a king's body or very exalted body this life, but you have to change this body. That is..., you will be forced. Suppose you are very in exalted position, you are minister or king or some..., but you'll not be allowed to stay. But these foolish persons, they do not know. They do not try to understand that "What is my next position?" Therefore they are called mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vi... Madman doing, he does not know what is the ultimate goal because they do not know that there is life after death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. They do not know that. Therefore they are mad after this sense gratification.

*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says that na sādhu manye. He was instructing His sons, "My dear boys, this kind of life, irresponsible life, to do anything and everything for sense gratification, is not very good." Why? "Now, because you are creating another body." You have already got experience of this body. It is full of miseries, adhyātmikā, adhi (?), adhibhautika, three kinds of miserable condition of life. Beyond that, there is ultimate miseries. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. But they are so rascals, they do not know how death taking place, what is after death, what is mṛtyu, what is death, what is birth, what is disease, whether they can be cured, when one can be free from all these troubles. They do not bother. Therefore in this age it is said that,

prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ (sabhya)

kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ

*mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo

*manda*-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ

[SB 1.1.10]



*Especially in this age the people are manda*-bhāgyā, unfortunate. We have got so much assets to know from the Vedic literature, but they are so unfortunate, they do not take advantage. They do not take advantage. Manda, manda. Manda, slow, and manda-bhāgyā. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. They'll read so many bogus literature to waste their time, but they'll not take to the Vedic literature, even the simple book, Bhagavad-gītā, wherein everything is very nicely described, how we should lead our life, how we should utilize the benefit of human life. Everything is described there, but they are manda. They will take interpretation of a rascal of Bhagavad-gītā. Sumanda-matayo. Even they read Bhagavad-gītā, they will read some rascaldom. Sumanda-matayo. The Māyāvādī philosophy, they will take it, not Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. They are reading Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa's book, but interpreting in the Māyāvādīc way. Therefore sumanda-matayo. Their intelligence is very bad. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā. And the unfortunate. In India there are so many Vedic literatures, full of treasure house of transcendental knowledge. But manda-bhāgyās they will read Lenin's literature. Just see how much unfortunate they have become. As if Lenin can speak more than Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. Manda... Not only here, everywhere, all the parts of the world, they are manda-bhāgyā. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. At the same time, they are disturbed by so many conditions. Just like at the present moment there is no rice, no wheat, no food. The agitation is... Manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. Upadrutāḥ. They must be disturbed because they have not taken the right path.



*Therefore, it is concluded here by the author, agaty-eka-gatiṁ natvā [Cc. Ādi 7.1]. If we take the path of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then-we are embarrassed in so many ways*-we can get the light. We can get the light. We can reform our life. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is so nice. Of course, the great author Kavirāja Gosvāmī has depicted the activities and teachings of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and this Māyāpur is the birthsite of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Five hundred years, 488 years ago, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu traveled on this street. Now, still, that memory is going to be revived by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world because Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted this.

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*So His prediction is coming to be true. (aside:) Who is talking? His prediction is coming to be true. Now you European and American, African and Australian, so many, all parts of the world, you have come. This is due to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's desire. He wanted it. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. He wanted to be famous, to become famous, and people should thank Him. He wanted that. He told that, that "When they will know My philosophy"*-that is the desire of Śrī Caitanya-"they'll thank Me." And actually you are already thanking Him by getting the sublime instruction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. It is the same instruction as Kṛṣṇa gave. Kṛṣṇa wanted sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. Because it is the duty of the living entity because they are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, it is the duty of everyone to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is the duty. Jīvera svarūpa haya nityera... [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. This is the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇa wanted that you should all surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that your real constitution position is eternal servitude of Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's instruction and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, because He is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te, kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Here is also said, vadānyatā. Prema-bhakti-vadānyatā, vadānyatā.



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Vadānya means most magnanimous. People could not understand Kṛṣṇa. Although He advised personally in the Bhagavad-gītā that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66], they are so rascal-avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]-they thought that "Kṛṣṇa is ordinary person, maybe little learned or little powerful." But they did not take up Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Even big, big authors, scholars, they cannot understand. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu*-He is Kṛṣṇa Himself-came again to teach us Kṛṣṇa consciousness for our benefit. Therefore He is mahā-vadānyāvatāra. So if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, we must try to understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then it will be very easy to understand. Other people, they do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They try to understand Kṛṣṇa directly; *therefore they fail to understand. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Yatatām api siddhānām. So Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood by ordinary way. Kṛṣṇa can be understood only through one way, not many ways. What is that one way? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Only bhakti. So that bhakti, here is it said, prema*-bhakti-vadānyatā. This Caitanya-caritāmṛta is... [break]

*...vṛndāvanam, and as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us personally, going to Vṛndāvana and asking His disciple, Rūpa*-Sanātana, to exhibit it and manifest the glories of Vṛndāvana, so in Vṛndāvana the Gosvāmīs constructed temples. The present city is due to these Gosvāmīs, or Śrī Caitanya. Present city of Vṛndāvana or present importance of Vṛndāvana is due to Śrī Caitanya. Otherwise people forgot it. It was lying vacant, a big tract of land only. But these Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, enunciated by, initiated by Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī... Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that,

rūpa raghunātha pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bhujaba sei yugala*-pīriti



*Vṛndāvana means Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's activities, pastimes. So that is the destiny of life. That is the real goal. As Śrī Caitanya..., Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, that manuṣya janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. One who has got this human form of life, if he does not understand what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, his life is spoiled. Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu: knowingly they're eating poison, because by coming in contact with Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa they can go back to home, back to Godhead, and there will be no more janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Such opportunity is human life, simply to understand Rādhā Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mahā-vadānyāvatāra, because He is teaching about the love of Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa and teaching everyone kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāyate, real destination of life, how to achieve kṛṣṇa-prema, and He's personally teaching. Namo mahā-vadānyāya. Rūpa Gosvāmī understood it: "Here is namo mahā-vadānyāya, most magnanimous incarnation."



Similarly, Locana dāsa Ṭhākura has sung,

*parama karuṇa, pahū dui*-jana,

*nitāi*-gauracandra

saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi,

*kevala ānanda*-kanda



*Kevala ānanda-kanda, parama-karuṇa: "There are many incarnation, but no better incarnation, no magnanimous incarnation, like Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu." Nityānanda Prabhu is always... Vrajenda-nandana yei, śaci-suta haila sei, balarāma haila nitāi. Nitāi-Gaura means*-Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who was formerly Kṛṣṇa... He's Kṛṣṇa still. Just for our understanding... As we think that "I had my former life"-actually I had-but that former life is finished; *I am now a new life. But in case of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is not like that. It is simultaneously existing. Kṛṣṇa is also existing, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu also existing. The example is given in this connection, just like the sun. Now it is not visible in India, the sun. But other part, in America, it is visible. So sun is there, but it is not visible at the present moment in India. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is there. Their pastimes are there, it is going on, but it is now not visible in this part of the universe. There are innumerable universes, so by rotation Kṛṣṇa or Caitanya Mahāprabhu comes to a particular universe at a certain period. Just like the sun will rise again, tomorrow morning, at six p.m., at six a.m., similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa and all His incarnation, they are rotating regularly. That is described in the Brahma*-saṁhitā:



*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu-kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



So Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, and innumerable incarnation... These incarnation have been compared just like the flow of waves. If you sit down on the riverside or on the oceanside, if you want to count how many waves are there, it is impossible. They are coming regularly, day and night. That is not possible. Similarly, how many incarnations are there, it is impossible for us. Our knowledge is not so unlimited. Therefore we cannot understand. So in this way incarnations are coming.



So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the topmost incarnation.

*parama karuṇa, pahū dui*-jana,

*nitāi*-gauracandra

saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi,

*kevala ānanda*-kanda



*Saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi. There are many incarnations, but Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is the most magnanimous incarnation, because in other incarnation... Just like Lord Rāmacandra. The culprit, the criminal or the sinful demon, Rāvaṇa, he was killed. Kṛṣṇa also, when He appeared, He killed so many demons. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, demons like Jagāi and Mādhāi, did not kill them but delivered them to become the best type of Vaiṣṇava. This is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation magnanimity. What He will kill? These demons are petty demons. They can be killed only by slap. So it is not very difficult to kill them, to call for sudarśana*-cakra or any deadly weapon. They are already killed. There is no food. How they will work? How they will fight? So it is not possible. So it is to kill the dead man. Now, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu incarnation, if they want to kill them, they are already dead. To give them life again is Kṛṣṇa's or Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special gift. Therefore it is said, śrī caitanya, prema-bhakti-vadānyatā, His magnanimity. He delivered by His personal example Jagāi Mādhāi. And Jagāi Mādhāi, they were born in nice brāhmaṇa family, rich family, but they were drunkard and meat-eaters and woman-hunters. That is their fault. And for this purpose they can do anything and everything. They were doing that. So the whole world is now all drunkard and woman hunter meat-eater. Especially in India, although it was unknown, now the government is teaching how to drink wine, how to eat beef and how to... This is going on.



*So now the whole world is full of Jagāi*-Mādhāis. That is a fact. Now, by the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they can be delivered. How they can be delivered? That is being instructed by the author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, by personally behaving. Agaty-eka-gatiṁ natvā hīnārthādhika-sādhakam [Cc. Ādi 7.1]. Hīnārtha, those who are dispossessed of all good qualities. Hīnārtha. Artha. Artha means possession, money. Artha, anartha, and paramārtha. So paramārtha, there is no question of paramārtha. Even they have no artha, ordinary riches, all poor men. You see in the street, not only... Here, of course, we are poor country, but in your country also, they are also hippies. Unnecessarily they have become poor. Here, by circumstantially they have become poor like wretched person, loitering in the street. Now, while I was coming and I was thinking that formerly when we used to go through the street we could see so many nice confectioners shop. But at the time here there is a tea shop. Tea shop and dry leaf, that's all. You cannot get any good food-no more kacaurīs, śṛṅgāra rasagullā, no more. Finished, all finished. Therefore hīnārtha hīnārtha. They are very, very poor. They cannot pay. Even there is such shop... Still there are such shop like Dvārakā, what is, Dhari Ghosa and Bhinna, but they can be taken advantage of, a few people, a few richer section. But formerly even a poor man could eat nice food from purchasing from the confectioner. But daily, daily they are becoming poorer, poorer. Hīna artha. Hīna means devoid of artha, money. So that is another qualification. Another qualification means those who are poorer, they can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very easily. The richer section, they are very proud that "We have got money." But in India even richer section, they were devotees, and still they are devotees. But mostly people, they have become hīna artha, without any money. So for them this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very easy. Take advantage of it. Take advantage of it. Hīnārthādhika-sādhakam. Adhika means greater. Adhika-sādhakam. Śrī-caitanya likhyate asya prema-bhakti-vadānyatā.

Therefore Śrī Kavirāja Gosvāmī is attempting to describe about the magnanimity of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthsite is there, and the annual 488th birth anniversary is going to be held on the 8th March, so I am very glad. I welcome you from all countries. You have taken so much labor to come here. Take advantage of the teachings of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu described by the fittest author, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, and we have tried to translate it as far as possible. Let us discuss.

Thank you very much. (end)



750301CC.ATL

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.1

-

Atlanta, March 1, 1975



Nitāi: "Let me first offer my respectful obeisances unto Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is the ultimate goal of life for one bereft of all possessions in this material world and is the only meaning for one advancing in spiritual life. Thus let me write about His magnanimous contribution of devotional service in love of God."



Prabhupāda:



*agaty*-eka-gatiṁ natvā

*hīnārthādhika*-sādhakam

*śrī*-caitanyaṁ likhyate 'sya

*prema*-bhakti-vadānyatā

[Cc. Ādi 7.1]



*So Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī is writing Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. In each chapter he composes a new verse offering his obeisances to the Lord. So in this Seventh Chapter of Ādi-līlā he also offers his respect. He began his writing of Caitanya-caritāmṛta when he was as old as ninety years old in Vṛndāvana by the order of the Vaiṣṇavas and confirmed by Śrī Madana-mohana. So this is the process. One should not be writing in spiritual subject matter without being authorized by some superior authority. It is not ordinary writing. The writing on spiritual subject matter is authoritative. By the order of superior authority, one can write. It is not speculation. Therefore he said that śrī-caitanyaṁ likhyate asya: "By the order of superior authority, I am trying to describe Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu." And what is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Prema-bhakti-vadānyatā. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is preaching prema, means love of Godhead. That is the only necessity to understand in human form of life. Premā pumartho mahān.



There are other necessities for those who are not devotees. Those necessities are dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Generally, in the material world everyone has necessity of gratifying his senses. So sometimes, under the cover of religiosity, they want to satisfy senses. The same thing... Just like one goes to church or temple to mitigate some material necessities. Just like the Christians go to the church for meeting the problems of bread; *similarly, the Hindus or the Muslim, everyone goes to church, temple or mosque to pray something material: "God, I am very distressed. Kindly get me relief from this distressed condition." Or "God, I am in need of money, I am very poor. Kindly give me some money." Or any other, "I am now implicated in war." Just like Churchill, he introduced that everyone should go and pray for victory. So England was also praying for victory, and Germany was also praying for victory. So (chuckles) God is perplexed. (laughter) The thief is praying to God that "This night, I may steal without any hindrances." And the householder is praying, "My Lord, thief may not come here and steal my goods." And God has to adjust everything. So just imagine how much busy is God. There are millions and trillions of living entities. Each one of them, if they are at all interested in God*-not all-so they are praying. Everyone is praying, "God, give me this benediction. Give me this benediction." So this is not pure devotional service. For some material profit, one should not become a religious person or devotee of God. Of course, it is better than the person who is not at all interested in God. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. Unless one is pious, he cannot approach God.

So one should be pious and without any motive, not only pious. Pious is the first condition, who can approach God; otherwise he does not. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. These classes of men, duṣkṛtina, miscreants, always committing sinful activities, duṣkṛtina; and mūḍha, rascals, fools; and narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind; *māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā, whose knowledge has been taken away by māyā-such demonic person do not surrender to God. But pious man who has got background, pious activities, such person, when they are distressed, they approach God. They know that God is friend of all living entities. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. Actually, He is the friend. As friend, He is living with the soul as Supersoul. That is stated in the Vedas, that two birds are sitting on the same tree. The tree, this is the tree. This body is tree, and one bird is the individual soul, and the other bird is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Supersoul. So God is always accompanying the individual soul to turn him back to home, back to Godhead. He is so nice friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. So if we want peace, then we should understand that "Here is my friend, the supreme friend." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. "He is guiding me. So why I am praying to Him for some benefit? He knows my necessities. He will supply if it is required. Why shall I bother Him with prayers granting something, 'Please give me this, give me this'?" There is no necessity. God is omniscient. He knows. And He says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I know the necessities of My devotee, and I supply them." Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Two things are there: one thing, to possess something which we do not have; *and we want to protect what we have got. So Kṛṣṇa says, "Both the things... I give protection of My devotee, whatever he has got, and I supply him whatever he hasn't got." Yoga*-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. He is supplying everyone, but especially to the devotees. That is his special job.

*Here Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is very, very magnanimous. He is, without asking, He is offering the best benefit, Kṛṣṇa*-prema. So best objective... Our objective, of life should be to understand God. If we, in this life, if we simply understand what is God and what is my relationship with, and begin to act like that, then also our life is successful. Even if we cannot finish the whole job or we fall down from the platform of devotional service, still, we are not loser. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer patet tato yadi bhajann apakvaḥ atha [SB 1.5.17]. This devotional service is the process. Requires some time to fulfill the whole job and become perfect. But even becoming..., before becoming perfect, one falls down, he is not loser. The service is so transcendental that whatever you have done, that is your asset. And if you stop, so that is not good, but even if you stop, whatever you have done already, that is your permanent asset. This is the benefit of devotional service. Material thing, if you cannot do it perfectly well, whatever you have done, that is all lost. But in spiritual, whatever you have done, one percent, two percent, three percent, as you have done, that is not lost. Therefore the śāstra says that those who are not devotees, what is their profit? Even they are doing their duties very nicely, what is the profit? Because he remains under the stringent laws of nature. Suppose this life I have done my duty as a politician very nicely, but the next life I become a dog. Then what is the benefit? What is the benefit? To become next life as a dog or god, that will not depend on you; *that will depend on the nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. It is being automatically done. Two plus two equal to four. Similarly, whatever we are doing, we are preparing for the next life. Karmaṇa. Simply material nature has to give you a post: "Now you have done like this. Take this post." You cannot deny. You cannot say, "No, no, I don't like this post." No, you have to take it. So for the karmīs, even they have done their so*-called duties very perfectly well, what is the profit? There is no profit, because we are under the control of material nature. But the devotees, whatever little service they have done, that is permanent asset. That is not controlled by nature. That is controlled by God.

*And He says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. Bhraṣṭaḥ means one who is fallen from this devotional service. So for them also, it is guaranteed a human life. Not only human life, but in very good family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe. Śucīnām means by perfectly well behaved, cleansed family, brāhmaṇa family. Śucīnām. Śuci means very clean. So you are becoming all brāhmaṇas. You must remain always very clean. Śucīnām, that is called śuci. And muci means unclean, cobbler. Śuci and muci. So don't become muci. (laughter) Yes. Uncleanliness is muci, cobbler. They are dealing always with skin, and bad smell, and no bathing. So in our country, muci, the cobbler, is taken as the lowest of the mankind, narādhamāḥ, because their business is when the cow dies, so the mucis are prepared to take away the dead cow or bull. They eat the flesh, and they take out the skin and the bones for their business. Muci prepare shoes. He gets the skin for nothing, without any payment. He doesn't have to invest his capital, and he nicely cleanses it, tans, and then prepares shoes and sell in the market. So get the money. And the muci class, they eat this flesh, meat. But they are given the opportunity when the cow is dead, not by slaughterhouse. That is not in the Vedic scripture. The dead animal, you can eat. Those who are fond of eating fish and meat, they can eat when the animal is dead. Not killing. That is not very good thing. So the muci class, their business is to take the dead... After all, everyone will die. The animal will die also. Even if we keep the cows, don't kill, it will die. So some cow is dying here, some cow is dying there. Just like the vulture, they eat dead body. So dead body must be there. So they have no scarcity of dead bodies. They can find out dead body. They go three miles above to find out where is the dead body. So that is also sense gratification. So in this way there are classes, śuci and muci. Śuci is the first-class, cleansed internally and externally human being, and the muci means the low class, very unclean, eating the dead meat, cows and bulls. So Kṛṣṇa says, "Even one is fallen, he gets his birth in the family of śuci." Śucīnām. Just like in our society there are small children. You see their behavior. They are coming, offering flower, offering obeisances. That means they are not ordinary children. They have got the opportunity to take birth in the family of Vaiṣṇava, father Vaiṣṇava, mother Vaiṣṇava. And he is getting the opportunity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very beginning of life. This is called śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe [Bg. 6.41].

*So if one is fallen from devotional service, he is offered again the opportunity to take birth in the human society. And not only ordinary human being, but devotee, very cleansed, or, next to that, very rich family. These are the two opportunities for the fallen devotees, and what to speak of those who are not fallen. Just imagine. Those who are not fallen, they go directly. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately they are transferred to the spiritual world after giving up this body. And those who are fallen, they are not immediately transferred, but they are given the chance again for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness and being transferred, transferred to the spiritual world, because one who takes birth in the family of Vaiṣṇava and pure brāhmaṇa, he gets the chance again. Just like these children are getting chance again*-deity worship, offering to the Vaiṣṇava obeisances, offering some flower, dancing, chanting. He is again getting the opportunity. Although he was fallen in his last birth, that fallen is not so serious. He has got again human body, and he has got chance to be associate with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And rich man. Rich man means... Everyone is embarrassed with the maintenance of body. So if one is not embarrassed... To take birth in rich family means he has nothing to think of maintenance. Just like one of our devotee, Mr. Alfred Ford, he is the great-grandson of Mr. Henry Ford. He has given us one big house in Honolulu. The boy came to see me, very nice boy. So this is śrīmatāṁ gehe, born in rich family, and he has got the opportunity to give something for the service of the Lord. So either you are born in rich family or in poor Vaiṣṇava family, you are not loser. So we should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and try to introduce it very nicely, and even though we fall, there is no loss. The human life is guaranteed and in very good family. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So here it is said, hīnārthādhika*-sādhakaṁ śrī-caitanyam. [break] Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is very kind to the fallen souls. His special mission is to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Reclaim the fallen souls means in this age of Kali, almost 99.9%, they are all fallen. Their qualification is mandāḥ. Mandāḥ means they do not know that the human life is meant for qualifying oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual consciousness. They do not know. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. Even one is interested about spiritual consciousness, they accept some bogus theory. So many yogis, swamis, all bluffer, they will take care. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. Because Kali-yuga, they are already sophisticated, bewildered, and these people come to cheat, they fall the prey of these cheaters. Sumanda-matayo. Anyone who is preaching something else other than God consciousness, he is a cheater. He is a cheater. Sumanda-matayo. Because real progress of life is to become God conscious. That is the real progress. And without God consciousness, the so-called yogis, so-called meditation... What is this meditation? What is the profit? Simply some bogus propaganda. It has no value. Real progress of life is to know what is God and what is my relationship with Him and how to act in that relationship. That is real life. But they do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know it. They think, "By this yoga practice, I shall be perfect, my material condition will be improved," and so on, so on. They have got their own theories and... But that is not progress of life. There are many rich men, many karmīs. Without practicing yoga, they are having material comforts. So spiritual life does not mean that one is improved in material, conditioned life. Spiritual life means spiritual advancement. But people take it that "Take to religion means to give impetus to our material life." Dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. And when they are disgusted, they want mokṣa. Mokṣa means to become one with the Lord. So these things are going on. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to save all these fallen souls. Hīnārtha. Hīnārthādhika-sādhakam. The more one is fallen, he is the better candidate for accepting the cult of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, patita-pāvana-hetu, tava avatāra: "My Lord, You have incarnated to reclaim the fallen." Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra, mo sama patita prabhu, nā pāibe āra: "If that is Your mission, then I am the most fallen. So my claim is first to receive Your favor because Your mission is to show favor to the fallen. So I am the most fallen. So kindly accept me." In this way he has sung. And that is stated here, hīnārthādhika-sādhakaṁ śrī-caitanyam.

So (reading:) "A person in the conditional stage of material existence is in an atmosphere of helplessness. But the conditioned soul, under the illusion of māyā or the external energy, thinks that he is completely protected by his country, society, friendship and love, not knowing that at the time of death none of these can save him." This is called māyā. But he does not believe. Under the illusion of māyā, he does not also believe that what is the meaning of saving. Saving. Saving means saving oneself from this repetition, cycle of birth and death. That is real saving. But they do not know. (reading:) "The laws of material nature are so strong that none of our material possessions can save us from the cruel hands of death." Everyone knows it. And that is our real problem. Who is not afraid of death? Everyone is afraid of death. Why? Because any living entity, he is not meant for dying. He is eternal; therefore birth, death, old age and disease, these things are botheration for him. Because he is eternal, he does not take birth, na jāyate, and one who does not take birth, he has no death also, na mriyate kadācit. This is our actual position. Therefore we are afraid of death. That is our natural inclination.

So to save us from death... That is the first business of humankind. We are teaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for this purpose only. That should be the purpose of everyone. That is the sastric injunction. Those who are guardians... The government, the father, the teacher, they are guardians of the children. They should know it, how to give protection to the world's... Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta mṛtyum. So where is this philosophy all, over the world? There is no such philosophy. This is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is putting forward this philosophy, not whimsically but from authorized śāstra, Vedic literature, authorities. So that is our request. We are opening different centers all over the world for the benefit of the human society that they do not know the aim of life, they do not know that there is next life after death. These things they do not know. So we are trying to educate them that "There is next life undoubtedly, and you can prepare your next life in this life. You can go to the higher planetary system for better comfort, material comfort. You can remain here in a secure position." Secure means this material life. Just like it is said,

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*So you can prepare yourself for better life in the heavenly planets or in a better society in this world or to go to the planets where ghost and other wretches are controlling. Or you can go to the planet where Kṛṣṇa is there. Everything is open to you. Yānti bhūtejyā bhūtāni mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Simply you have to prepare yourself. Just like in youth life they are educated-somebody is going to be engineer, somebody is going to be medical man, somebody is going to be lawyer and many other professional man*-and they are preparing by education, similarly, you can prepare for your next life. This is not difficult to understand.



*But they do not believe in the next life, although it is very common sense. Actually there is next life because Kṛṣṇa says, and we can understand the philosophy by a little intelligence that there is next life. So our proposition is that "If you have got to prepare yourself for the next life, then why don't you take the trouble of preparing for going back to home, back to Godhead?" This is our proposition. You can prepare yourself to go to hell or heaven. That doesn't matter because that is also temporary. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya*-lokaṁ viṣanti. After you have finished... Just like you may go to jail or to somewhere else. When your visa or time is finished, then you are free from such life. Similarly, even if we go to the heavenly planet, when the resultant action of our pious activities are finished, then again we are turned down here. So in this way sometimes higher planetary, sometimes lower planetary, we are traveling. Therefore our best business is: "Why not go back to home, back to Godhead?" Kṛṣṇa says, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mam: [Bg. 9.25] "Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he comes to Me." So why not go to Kṛṣṇa? Then the question will be: "What is the benefit of going to Kṛṣṇaloka? What is the difference between going to heavenly planet or any other planet and going to Kṛṣṇa?" The difference is, any planet go, you are under the four material regulation, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: [Bg. 13.9] birth, death, old age and disease. But if you go to Kṛṣṇa... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. If you go to Kṛṣṇa, then you don't get any more chance to come down and take a material body. You can live there eternally blissful life of knowledge. That is the difference.

*So any intelligent man should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, cultivate the Kṛṣṇa conscious business and go back to home, back to Godhead, for eternal life. This mission we are preaching all over the world because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted it. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to deliver the fallen souls from the clutches of māyā and take them back to home, back to Godhead. As Kṛṣṇa came, He also... His mission was this. Bahavo jñāna*-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam ādigacchati. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma [Bg. 15.6]. He is also giving information, "You come to Me. Live there eternally, with bliss and knowledge. Why you are rotting in this material world?" So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has come with the same mission. His mission is not different from Kṛṣṇa because He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. So His mission is to offer prema, bhakti. Prema-bhakti-vadānyatā. That is His magnanimity. Śrī Kṛṣṇa did not offer prema. That is also prema, the preliminary condition. He said surrender. Surrender means beginning of prema. Unless I have got love for you, why shall I surrender to you? So that is the beginning of love, surrender. So He demanded so much. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind and magnanimous that in course of His chanting and dancing, He embraced everyone and gave him Kṛṣṇa-prema. That is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's magnanimity. Therefore Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has offered his prayer to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "People cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, and You are giving love of Kṛṣṇa." If you don't know anybody, how you can develop love for him? So just imagine how much magnanimous is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is giving such a nice process, that chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, be purified-immediately you become free from this material bondage and begin your loving service to Kṛṣṇa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift.

So therefore the author is writing that... (end)



740302CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.2

-

Māyāpur, March 2, 1974



Devotee: "Let me offer glorification to the Supreme Lord, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. One who has taken shelter of His lotus feet is the most glorified person."



Prabhupāda:



*jaya jaya mahāprabhu śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya

tāṅhāra caraṇāśrita sei baḍa dhanya

[Cc. Ādi 7.2]



Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī dictated this verse:



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

nāmne...

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He's Kṛṣṇa Himself. In this Kali-yuga, Kṛṣṇa's direct identification, incarnation, is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is also confirmed in all the Vedic literature-Mahābhārata, Purāṇa, Upaniṣad*-and the essence of all Vedic literature is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There is also Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He's accepted as the Supreme Lord.



*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñair saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*This is mentioned in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that in the Kali-yuga the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa is, by His bodily complexion, akṛṣṇa. Akṛṣṇa means "not kṛṣṇa." The "not kṛṣṇa" means there are many other colors. So in the śāstra it is said that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, appears in the four yugas in four different colors: śukla raktas tathā pītaḥ idānīṁ kṛṣṇataṁ gataḥ.



*When Kṛṣṇa was born, Gargamuni, the family priest... It is the system among the Vedic culturalists that as soon as a child is born, immediately his horoscope is made and his past, future is calculated. Janma*-grasthi (?). So that function, on account of poverty and many other causes, nobody practically practices. But this is also one of the saṁskāra. Before birth there is saṁskāra, garbhādhāna saṁskāra. While the child is within the womb, there is saṁskāra. In this way, a human body is purified by different kinds of saṁskāras, or purificatory methods. Daśabhidasaṁskāra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvija. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. If in... Anyone is born by father and mother, even cats and dogs they have got father and mother. Any life you get, there is father and mother. Therefore in the Prema-vivarta there is a śloka:

*janame janame sabe pitā*-mātā pāya

kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei



*In any birth, you'll get father, mother. That is not a very difficult thing. Without father and mother there is no birth. So to get father and mother is usual. It is not very difficult. But, kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei: in every birth, you cannot get Kṛṣṇa or you cannot get bona fide spiritual master. Kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei. Guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. These are the statements of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Those who have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta, they know it. So, perfection of human life is possible by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. And that mercy can be achieved in the human form of life, not in the life of cats and dogs. Therefore it is said, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is acting both as guru and Kṛṣṇa-combination of guru and Kṛṣṇa.



*So, Kavirāja Gosvāmī the author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, he first offered his obeisances to Lord Caitanya in the first verse, agaty-eka-gatiṁ natvā [Cc. Ādi 7.1]. After offering obeisances to the Supreme Lord, who is the only hope for the hopeless, now he's again offering, jaya jaya mahāprabhu śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya. Prabhu and Mahāprabhu. Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu. Any Vaiṣṇava is addressed as prabhu, but Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Mahāprabhu, the topmost prabhu, the master prabhu. All others are servant prabhu. Just like, it is very easy to understand: if you are working in an office, your immediate boss, you consider him as your master, but he's not the master. The master of the office is the managing director, manager or the proprietor. But still those who are working under him, sub-prabhus, they are also called prabhu. So all Vaiṣṇava should be addressed as prabhu; that is the etiquette. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Mahāprabhu. As soon as you utter the name of Śrī Caitanya, the Mahāprabhu... Because He's the greatest master. That will be explained in the few next verse,

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya

yāre yaiche nācāya, se taiche kare nṛtya

[Cc. Ādi 5.142]



*We are simply dancing in this material world. We are trying to be master of the material world. Everyone is trying. Everyone wants to exploit the resources of the material nature. He wants to become master. That is the struggle for existence. I am trying to become master, you are trying to become master, so there is clash, there is collision. I am challenging you, "Why you should become master?" He's challenging why I should be master. This is going on. This is material world. But if we accept Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, if we accept this principle that none of us is a prabhu, everyone is a servant... Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. If we accept this principle, that we are eternal servant, we are not master*-master is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu-then our problems are solved. Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has sung a song, jīv kṛṣṇa dāsa ei viśvās korle to ār duḥkha nāi. This is the solution. Everyone is thinking to become the master, prabhu. Prabhu you can become. That is not, I mean to say, extraordinary. Someway or other we are prabhus. Suppose I am a family man. I am managing my family, my wife, my children, my servants, my subordinates, so I may be prabhu. In that sense I am a small prabhu. Similarly, everyone is prabhu, he has got some subordinates. But there is the supreme prabhu, the prabhu of all prabhus. So Mahāprabhu is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. He's Kṛṣṇa. As it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara means ruler or controller. So all of us more or less a little controller or ruler, but not the absolute ruler. The absolute ruler is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the absolute prabhu, master, is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So, tāṅhāra caraṇāśrita: The prabhu... Everyone is prabhu-that's all right-but if that prabhu takes shelter of the lotus feet of the Mahāprabhu, sei baḍa dhanya, he becomes glorified. Not to remain satisfied becoming a prabhu of your wife, children, family, country, or this or that, but you should try to become the servant of Mahāprabhu. Tāṅhāra caraṇāśrita [Cc. Ādi 7.2]. He's glorified because he receives... To become under the lotus feet of Śrī. If you take shelter of the Supreme Prabhu, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then your life is successful. Sei baḍa dhanya. He is glorified. To become servant of God or Mahāprabhu is very prestigious. It is not very easy thing to become servant of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu or servant of Kṛṣṇa. So if anyone agrees to become the servant of the Supreme Prabhu, master, then his life is successful. Sei baḍa dhanya. He is glorified.



*The Vaiṣṇava, their principle is to become, to come to the platform of eternal servitude. That is the philosophy of Vaiṣṇava philosophy: not to become the master but to become servant of the master. This is perfect philosophy. Gopī*-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. So long in the material conception of life we..., the brāhmaṇa is thinking the master of the kṣatriya or the vaiśya or the śūdra; *a sannyāsī is thinking the master of vānaprastha, gṛhastha, brahmacārī. Similarly, in gṛhastha also, the chief man in the household life, he is thinking master. So everyone, kṣatriya king, he's thinking he's master. So, you are master to some extent, but if you accept Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Śrī Kṛṣṇa as your master, then your life is successful. This is the secret of success. That is confirmed in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



Just like Arjuna was fighting, kṣatriya. His business was to fight. Why he was fighting the battle of Kurukṣetra? To become master of the kingdom. But he remained eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is success. Don't be satisfied simply I become master of your material position. At the same time, you try to become the servant of the supreme; *then you are successful. Relative. Our mastership is relative. Under certain condition we become master, but Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is master without any condition. Namo mahā*-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa prema pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Because He's master He can distribute kṛṣṇa prema very easily. Otherwise, kṛṣṇa prema... Not only kṛṣṇa prema; one cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yayati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Out of many millions of persons, one may try to make his life successful, and out of many such person who has become successful, to understand the constitutional position of his life, one may understand*-one may understand; *there is no surety*-Kṛṣṇa. So to understand Kṛṣṇa is very, very difficult job.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*To understand Kṛṣṇa and to understand the service of Kṛṣṇa is very exalted post. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ. One has to become brahma-bhūtaḥ, completely liberated. Then he can understand how to render service to Kṛṣṇa, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.



So, so difficult subject matter is given very easily by Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī offered his first prayer to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu:

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*Such a difficult subject matter: Kṛṣṇa. "You are not only giving Kṛṣṇa, but You are giving Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa." You can meet somebody, some exalted person, you can see, but to become an intimate relationship with such exalted person in love, that is not very easy thing. I can meet the president or some exalted person, but to become in love with him in intimacy, that is not easy job. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu distributed this Kṛṣṇa love immediately, anyone. That is Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution to the human society. If you simply become under the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then love of Kṛṣṇa is very easily achieved. Therefore it is said: tāṅhāra caraṇāśrita, sei baḍa dhanya [Cc. Ādi 7.2]. He's glorified because he receives... To become under the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu means you have got Kṛṣṇa. You have already got. That is the verdict of the śāstra and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Because Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, does not give anything else. Simply directly gives you Kṛṣṇa and His love. And to award this greatest benediction to the human society, He took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years only in this land of Māyāpur, Navadvīpa. It is very glorified place. It is not ordinary place. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, gauḍa maṇḍala bhūmi, yeba jane cintāmaṇi tara hoy vrajabhūme vāsa. Anyone who understands gauḍa maṇḍala bhūmi in Bengal*-this Navadvīpa, Navadvīpa-candra, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu-if anyone understands the spiritual value of this land, he lives in Vrajabhūmi, in Vṛndāvana. There is no difference between Vṛndāvana and this Gaudamaṇḍala-bhūmi. That is the verdict of the śāstra. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi yena jane cintāmaṇi tara hoy vrajabhūme vāsa.



*So read Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's Prārthanā, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's Prārthanā. They are very, very valuable for advancement of spiritual understanding, especially Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's Prārthanā. So, by reading them, by understanding them, we can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. Otherwise, it is very, very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. Big, big scholars, big, big sannyāsīs, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They understand Kṛṣṇa that Kṛṣṇa is like us-a very great man, politician, historical person*-or sometimes thinks of Kṛṣṇa as a debauch because He was in association with the gopīs or He married sixteen thousand wives. So, we shall be misled to understand Kṛṣṇa if we try to do so by our own knowledge. We have to accept Kṛṣṇa through Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises everyone:

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum [Bg. 9.11]. Because He came as a human being, people have misunderstood Him, that He's a human being. He's not human being. He's the master of the human being. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. Kṛṣṇa comes very kindly-because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa-when we are in distressed condition on account of violating the laws of religion. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavaty. Glāni means deviation from the path of religion. And what is religion? Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Religion means the laws of God. That is religion. Simple definition. Laws, the words, the rules and regulations given by the Lord, that is called religion. Just like I have several times explained, the laws, the rules and regulations given by the state is called law. You cannot manufacture law. Similarly, you cannot manufacture dharma. Nowadays, in this Kali-yuga, all the rascals, they are manufacturing religion. But who cares for that religion, or what will be the benefit of such religion? There'll be no benefit. It is simply... [break]



*...that "I am Kṛṣṇa." Never said. Rather, when He was (in) Vṛndāvana, some of the devotees eulogized Him that "You are Kṛṣṇa," He immediately blocked His ear: "No, no. Don't say like that." That is the indication that to claim to become God or Kṛṣṇa is the highest type of rascaldom. That is rascaldom. Those who are these Māyāvādīs who are claiming that "Everyone is God. I am God, you are God," they are all rascals. Therefore I have said in connection, with reference to that boy*-god..., you know, I do not wish to repeat. We do not accept such cheap God. No. We accept Kṛṣṇa. And we accept Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu as God because śāstra says, the ācārya says; *therefore we follow the footsteps of the ācāryas. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-nāmne: "Sir, You have now come... You are Kṛṣṇa. You have come under the name of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. You are so magnanimous that You are distributing..." Be... Without becoming Kṛṣṇa, how one can distribute Kṛṣṇa? Without one becoming millionaires, how he can distribute millions of dollars?

*So it is the business of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu... He's so magnanimous that He is distributing Kṛṣṇa. So take shelter of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You have come from distant place, you have spent much money, thousands of money to come here. Take advantage of this journey and chant śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. Then you'll get Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll get, surely. This land, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthsite. So anyone who takes shelter of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he is dhanya, he is glorified.

Thank you very much. (end)



740303CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.3

-

Māyāpur, March 3, 1974



Prabhupāda:



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*Knowledge means tattva*-jñāna, to know the Absolute Truth. In the Bhagavad-gītā also... (aside:) They are making noise. Kṛṣṇa says,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Everything should be understood in truth. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to understand the Absolute Truth. So in another place Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: [Bg. 4.9] anyone who understands the Absolute Truth factually as He is, not by mental speculation, but by the paramparā system... So therefore, the author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta is beginning with guru, pūrve gurv-ādi. Beginning is the guru, the spiritual master, because he is the representative of the paramparā system, disciplic succession. Therefore, whatever we do, we must first of all try to understand from guru.



*Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī also says in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, ādau gurvāśrayam: the beginning of spiritual life is to accept the bona fide spiritual master. Sad-dharma pṛcchāt. Then inquiry from the spiritual master. The approach should be by full surrender. Tad viddhi praṇipātena, tattvam, etad viddhi [Bg. 4.34]. By praṇipātena. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipātam. Just like we have learned how to offer obeisances to the spiritual master, to the gurus, falling down flat, praṇipā, no reservation, falling flat*-that is called praṇipā-so one has to approach the spiritual master. That is the Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārtham. Tad means tattva. In order to understand the tattva, the Absolute Truth, vijñāna... Vijñāna means practical science, not theoretical. Theoretical is jñāna. When that is practically applied in life, that is called vijñānam. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, therefore, the statement is there: jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Jñāna and vijñāna.

*So we are very much proud of seeing things. Somebody says, "Can you show me God?" But just try to understand what is the power of our eyes. Now there is no light, so our seeing power is vanished. In this way, all the powers of our senses are conditional. Under certain condition we can see, under certain condition we can hear. Therefore at the present moment our life is conditional. We act, we see, we walk, we hear, we smell, we touch*-under certain condition. Just like I have got my eyes. Because my sight power is less, so I take the condition of a glass and try to see. Similarly, this material condition is like that. Spiritually, we have got the power of seeing, the power of hearing, the power of speaking, the power of touching, power of smelling, but because we are covered by this material body, all these powers have become conditional, not absolute. So those who are inquisitive to understand the absolute life or spiritual life, he must accept a guru. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta says pūrve, in the beginning. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. If we actually are serious to understand the Absolute Truth, then one must have the shelter of ācārya. Ācāryavān. This vān word is used when one possesses. Asthate bato prata (?). So when one possesses the shelter of ācārya, then his knowledge is perfect.

*So the beginning of spiritual life... (aside:) Oh? He doesn't require hearing? The beginning of life is gurvāśrayam, ādau gurvāśrayam. That is the beginning*-every śāstra, every Vedic scripture. Just like Kṛṣṇa, He is the original spiritual master. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi kavaye [SB 1.1.1]. Ya. Brahmā, Brahmā is the first living creature within this universe. So he was also enlightened and educated by the Supreme Lord. Not that because he's Brahmā he's independent. Nobody is independent. Knowledge must be received from the authority, and the supreme authority is Kṛṣṇa. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.

*So here Caitanya-caritāmṛta is the teachings of Lord Caitanya and His life, practical life. He's Kṛṣṇa, and He's personally speaking. Kṛṣṇa first of all spoke about Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā, but foolish persons, mūḍha... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. So Kṛṣṇa was misunderstood. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. People misunderstood. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in His five opulences-Himself, His expansion, His incarnation, His energy, personal energy and marginal energy... There is no association of the external energy, as it is said here, that guru-tattva-kahiyāchi, ebe pāñcera vicāra. Guru-tattva is also along with Him. He's also representative of the Supreme Lord. Acāryāṁ māṁ vijānīyān [SB 11.17.27]. So, that guru-tattva has been explained by the author, Kavirāja Gosvāmī in five chapters, six chapters, and the seventh chapter he's describing the five tattvas. Īśa-prakāśa. Nityānanda Prabhu is the direct manifestation of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Vrajendra-nandana yei śacī-suta hoila sei balarāma hoila nitāi. So Nityānanda Prabhu is the first expansion of Lord Kṛṣṇa or Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. When you speak of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, we should understand immediately that He's Kṛṣṇa in Rādhā's attitude, Rādhā-bhāva. Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, They are one; *They are not different. Rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād [Cc. Ādi 1.5]. Rādhārāṇī is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa is prominent in His activities. Because Kṛṣṇa, in order to understand Himself, He took the position of Rādhārāṇī to understand Himself. Personally He could not understand His potencies, but when He appeared as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the attitude of Rādhārāṇī's love for Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-prema, then He could fully understand Him. These are very intricate subject matter to understand, but this is the fact.

*So, as Kṛṣṇa expands Himself by His omnipotencies... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Kṛṣṇa has got multi*-potencies. We cannot imagine. Inconceivable potencies. So the whole universe is manifestation of His potencies. Śakti parinambha (?). Ekasthāne sthitasyagner jyotsnā. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktir tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. This is said in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Just like the fire. We have got this lamp, it is situated in one place, but the light and heat are expanding. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is situated in His own abode, which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. This is the statement of Brahma-saṁhitā. He is situated in His own place, own abode, known as Goloka Vṛndāvana, but He is expanding Himself, akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Everywhere He is present. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.35]. He has expanded Himself by His energies. Just like heat and light, the energy of fire expands. It is very easy to understand. Similarly the energies, multi-energies... Not only one, but multi-energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. So His energies are acting so nicely, that everything is coming in front as if automatically done. But it is not automatically done. This is foolishness. To understand that nature is working automatically is foolishness. The nature is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That is real understanding. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. At the present moment, the so-called scientists, philosophers, they are simply studying the working of the material nature. But they do not know behind this material nature the real powerful is there. Just like we are enjoying the electric light, electric power, but as soon as it has failed from the powerhouse, everything stoped. Similarly, the real power is Kṛṣṇa. He's the powerful, śaktimān. When He desires, there is creation, this material manifestation, and when He winds up, everything is finished. This is the way. So how He is doing that? That is explained in this chapter. Pañca-tattva: He's acting by expansion of His different features.

So Nityānanda Prabhu is the immediate expansion of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared here at Māyāpur, this very place where you are now sitting, with all these five features: Nityānanda Prabhu, Śrī Advaita Prabhu, and Gadādhara Prabhu, Śrīnivāsa Prabhu. So He Himself, Kṛṣṇa, and Nityānanda Prabhu is immediate expansion of His personal self; Advaita Prabhu is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, Mahāviṣṇu, three; and Gadādhara Prabhu is the expansion of spiritual energy; *and Śrīnivāsa Prabhu is the expansion of His marginal potency, marginal energy, jīva*-tattya. Jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, prakāśa-tattva, and avatāra-tattva, and He Himself. This Pañca-tattva. This Pañca-tattva will be explained in this chapter. That is the proposal of the author. Guru-tattva kahiyāchi ebe pāñcera vicāra. Consideration of the five. So although the Absolute Truth is one, He expands in His various features. That has been divided in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's practical exposition of tattva-vicāra, in six: five personal, and the guru is also representative. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Guru is also expansion of Hari for the benefit of the conditioned soul. For the benefit of the conditioned soul, He is within everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So He's trying to teach us from within and He sends His representative for preaching without.

So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He's preaching about Himself, because without knowing, without understanding the tattva, vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, without understanding the Absolute Truth as He is, there is no question of getting out of the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. "One who surrenders unto Me," Kṛṣṇa says, "he can get out of the clutches of māyā." Māyā means this material life. We have forgotten ourself, that we are intimately related with Kṛṣṇa, we have got a special function on His behalf. Just like part and parcel of my body: the finger has got a special function the leg has got a special function, the head has got a special function; *similarly, we all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got a special function in relationship with the Lord. When we are forgetful of this special relationship with Kṛṣṇa, that is called conditional life or material life. Material life means we do not serve Kṛṣṇa but we serve our senses*-kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, like that. That is material life. We are serving, there is no doubt about it, but every one of us we are serving our senses. Kāmādīnāṁ katidhā na katidhā pālitā durnideśa.

*Therefore, in order to stop this stupidity of serving our senses, which will never come to an end, simply increase our bondage, we have to come to the spiritual master. Ādau gurvāśrayam. He'll teach how to convert or to divert the activities of the senses to please Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare nāma prema. Dhare prema nāma. The senses will act. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they try to stop the activities of the senses. Yogis also. Yoga indriya saṁyamaḥ. The yogis artificially try to stop the sense activities. They are simply... Because common men, they know activities means sense activities, sense satisfaction... So yogis, they artificially try to stop the sense activities. That is called praṇāyāma. Dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, praṇāyāma, like that. But that artificial stoppage of sense activities will not be ultimately beneficial. Or thinking that my sense activities may be stopped, I become silent, become one with the supreme-that will also not help us. The real philosophy is, the sense activities must be there, but purified. That is real life. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Purified. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. We cannot stop sense activities. That is not possible. Artificially if we stop, even as a big successful yogi or jñānī, it will not act. There are many instances. Just like Viśvāmitra Muni. He was a great yogi. So artificially he was trying to stop the sense activities. But it also failed, the attempt. Later on he met one beautiful woman and he failed in controlling the senses. That is the history. He was the biggest yogi, Viśvāmitra Muni. Similarly, there are many so-called jñānīs also, trying to become one with the Supreme. That is also not possible. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas [SB 10.2.32]. Vimukta-māninas, they are thinking that they have become liberated, but that is not the fact. Why it is not fact? Tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Because they did not take to the devotional service. Tvayy asta-bhāvād. They have no information of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore despite their severe austerities and penances and rising to the platform of Brahman realization-āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty [SB 10.2.32]*-they fall down.

*Therefore, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is practically teaching us with His five associates: Advaita, Nityānanda, Gadādhara and Śrīvāsādi gaura*-bhakta-vṛnda. Therefore if we want to approach the Absolute Truth, it is our duty to offer our respect to these five features of the Lord.

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



*Therefore, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we first of all worship the Pañca*-tattva: śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara-then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Then it will be successful. Without going through the Pañca-tattva, with the mercy, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. It will remain a myth. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without the mercy of these Pañca*-tattva. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, although He came personally, He taught the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and asked people, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But because we are mūḍhas, we misunderstood Kṛṣṇa. We could not take the last instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa again came as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to teach us how to approach Kṛṣṇa. If we read the life of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His acceptance of sannyāsa order, His preaching all over India, His chanting and dancing, His living at Jagannath Purī, His activities, His meeting with the devotees, His Guṇḍicā-mārjana, His Ratha-yātrā kīrtana-if we study all these activities of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, immediately you understand Kṛṣṇa.



*Therefore, we are inviting you at this place of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His birthsite, to take the inspiration given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That will help us understanding Kṛṣṇa. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā visate tad anantaram. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, in truth, by the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's activities means His distributing kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa. He has no other business. He has no other business. At the full youthful age He gave up His family life, beautiful wife, most obedient perfect wife, beautiful wife, mother, affectionate mother, very good prestige, social prestige. Nimāi Paṇḍita, learned scholar, everything He sacrificed. Tyaktvā su-dustyaja rājya lakṣmīm. Gave up everything-that is the teachings of Lord Caitanya-and became a servant of Kṛṣṇa personally. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself, but teaching us how to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the significance of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Kṛṣṇa Himself along with His personal associates-sāṅgopāṅgāstra pārṣadam... Kṛṣṇa comes to kill the demons: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. This is the business of Kṛṣṇa, two-sided business: one side killing the demons, another side giving the protection to the devotees. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared on this part 488 years ago to, I mean to say, hand the same two principles, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. He... Vināśāya duṣkṛtām. He killed Jagāi-Mādhāi not by the body, but by their atrocious activities, stopped that. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is to kill the demon*-not by life but by their heinous activities. Anyone who comes to be killed by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his heinous, nefarious activities becomes killed and he becomes a Vaiṣṇava, just like Jagāi-Mādhāi.

*So at the present moment, the whole world is full of Jagāi*-Mādhāi, their four principles. Jagāi-Mādhāi means illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. This is Jagāi-Mādhāi. So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is killing these Jagāi-Mādhāi principles: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, and no meat-eating. So one side killing the Jagāi-Mādhāi principle, and other side protection, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.

Thank you very much. (end)



740304CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.4

-

Māyāpur, March 4, 1974



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



*pañca*-tattva avatīrṇa caitanyera saṅge

*pañca*-tattva lañā karena saṅkīrtana raṅge

[Cc. Ādi 7.4]



Translation: "These five tattvas incarnate with Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and thus the Lord executes His saṅkīrtana movement with great pleasure."



*Prabhupāda: Tattva, Absolute Truth, I tried to explain last night. Tattva... Kṛṣṇa has spoken about tattva in the Bhagavad*-gītā, and in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also there is statement of tattva, vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam [SB 1.2.11]. Tattva, the truth, can be learned from the tattva-vida, one who knows. The Absolute Truth can not be ascertained by imaginative speculation. One has to learn the tattva from the tattva-vit. Therefore the tattva-vid vadanti. Vadanti means they explain, tattva-vit, one who is tattva-vit, he explains. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam. One who knows, he's not silent. He is to preach, he is to speak. Nowadays it has become a fashion to be maunī-baba, does not speak. So these are, may be very good device for professional business, but so far we are concerned, in the Vedic culture, the tattva-vit must speak. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. The tattva-vit must hear from the authorized person; *then he'll speak. That is nice. Otherwise there is no need of speaking. So those who have not heard from the authorized person, they may make a business by making himself maunī*-baba. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāsate: "A mūrkha, a dull rascal, is very beautiful so long he does not speak." Because as soon as he speaks, then his knowledge, his learning, his capacity, his position, will be immediately exposed. So our paramparā line... Prahlāda Mahārāja has condemned this system, maunī-baba. No. Our system is kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching.



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*And Kṛṣṇa also confirms this in the Bhagavad*-gītā: satatāṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. That is mahātmā, always glorifying the Lord, Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means this satatāṁ kīrtayanto mām: [Bg. 9.14] twenty*-four hours we have to glorify. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, God is unlimited. So we have to chant, glorifying His qualities, unlimitedly. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "How I shall glorify the Lord by chanting His name and pastimes? I have got only one tongue. If I could possess millions of tongues and trillions of ears, then it was possible to glorify the Lord to some extent." This is our business. You'll be surprised that my Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura... Sometimes Paṇḍita Madanmohan Mahalabhya (?), a great politician, well-known political leader, he came to see him. So he inquired from my Guru Mahārāja, "What are your activities?" So in describing his activities he said that "We have got six magazines, and out of them, one is daily, Nadiya Prakash." Those who are resident of this place might know. So he was publishing one paper daily, Nadiya Prakash. So Madanmohan Mahalabhya inquired that "You are publishing daily one paper about spiritual subject?" He said, "Yes, why not?" Now, he explained that this universe is only one of the millions universes. This small universe is one of the many, many. Many, many... We get information from the śāstra, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiḥ [Bs. 5.40]. Jagadānda means this universe. And there are koṭis, unlimited. In Caitanya Mahāprabhu's dealing, one devotee, Vāsudeva Datta, he pleaded to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "My dear Lord, You have come, You take away all the inhabitants of this earth, or within this universe, and if You think that they are so much sinful that they cannot be delivered, so You can transfer their sinful resultant action, sinful activities, unto me. I shall suffer." This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy, that "Let others be delivered, and if they are unfit, sinful, all their sins may be transferred to me." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You do not require to take their sinful reaction, but even without your transferring they can be delivered. But this is only one universe." And He compared that this universe is just like a grain of mustard in the mustard bag. Say, hundred kilos, kg., mustard bag, and there is one mustard seed. So this universe is like that. So many universes are there. So my Guru Mahārāja explained that "This universe is only just like a grain of mustard seed among millions and trillions of universes, and in each and every universe there are millions and trillions of planets, and this earthly planet is one of them, and in this planet, the earthly planet, there are so many cities, and in each city there are so many daily papers, and each daily paper has got so many editions. So this is only one-fourth exhibition of God's creation. If in one city there are so many news, people can read, so from the three-fourth creation of the world, Vaikuṇṭha-jagat, we can give so many news that we can overflood them with news. Unfortunately we have no customer." That is...

*So this is the position. Kīrtana. Kīrtana, we can glorify the Lord twenty*-four hours. Twenty-four hours we have got at our disposal. We have got (not) only twenty-four hours, but unlimited. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. This is only one-fourth part manifestation of the whole creation. There is no limit of kīrtana. That is unlimited. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction is that "Glorify the Lord continuously." Tṛṇād api sunīcena. And as soon as you begin kīrtanīyaḥ, real kīrtana of Kṛṣṇa, then you'll have many enemies. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally had many enemies. You know that in this spot there was persecution, religious persecution, by the then magistrate, Chand Kazi. His samādhi is still there. So, and we are also experiencing. Our only fault is that we are preaching the saṅkīrtana movement, and there are so many enemies. You see? So that is possible. Even the father become enemy. Prahlāda Mahārāja, a five-years-old boy, and because he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, his father became enemy. So you'll have enemies. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives us, warning us, that tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā: "You just become humbler than the grass." Just (as) you trample over the grasses, it does not protest. Not only you, so many people are going on the grasses, but they tolerate. So tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. And He has given the example, "tolerant than the trees." The trees are standing in one place. Scorching heat and cold and rains, they are all suffering, and the people taking their leaves, taking their branches, woods, cutting them, taking fruit, and still, the trees give you shelter. This is the example of tolerance. So tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā mānadena. Everyone in this material world is very much fond of getting honor. Although he's not honorable, still, he wants to get honor. Although he is unfit, still, he wants. That is the material propensity. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You give them honor. Don't ask for yourself any honor, respect, but others, you give them." That is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching.

As Prabhodānanda Sarasvatī has explained,

dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya

kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca etad ahaṁ bravīmi

he sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt

*caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāga



*He says... This is the process of preaching: "My dear sir, I am falling down on your lotus feet and with folded hands and am flattering you thousand times, and I have taken one grass in my mouth to show my humbleness. So you kindly hear my one word." "What is that?" He sādhavaḥ, "You are very great sādhu, but you have learned so many things," he sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt. "This is my request, that whatever you have learned, so many things, kindly forget. Kick them out." "Then what shall I take?" Caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāga: "Just become a servant on the lotus feet of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is my request." So we have to preach like that. Just flatter him, but request him that "You forget all these bogus things. Simply take to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Your life will be successful," as it is... We have already... Tāṅhāra caraṇāśrita, sei baḍa dhanya: [Cc. Ādi 7.2]. He's glorified because he receives... To become under the lotus feet of Śrī "Anyone who takes shelter at the lotus feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he becomes glorified." Sei baḍa dhanya.



*So our preaching should be like that. The Pañca*-tattva... Here it is said. We are discussing.

*pañca*-tattva avatīrṇa caitanyera saṅge

*pañca*-tattva lañā karena saṅkīrtana raṅge

[Cc. Ādi 7.4]



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has got His associates. That is confirmed in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:



*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti he su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



This is the method of worshiping the Lord Viṣṇu. Yajña means to worship the Supreme Lord. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyaiḥ.



varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



*This is civilization, varṇāśrama. One must observe (in) the material world. In the spiritual world, of course, there is no such thing as varṇāśrama. That is pure identity of the soul. So there is no... So long we are in this material world there must be a scientific division of progress of life. That is Vedic system. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This is called varṇāśrama*-dharma. I have repeatedly said that people call us Hindu in India. Actually, "Hindu" word is not visible in any Vedic literature. This is the name given by the Arabians to the, this part of the world, on the bank of the Sindhu. From the Sindhu the word "Hindu" has come. So actually, our culture is varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore śāstra says, varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. In the varṇāśrama-dharma, the ultimate goal is to worship Lord Viṣṇu, whose name is Yajña. Out of many names of Lord Viṣṇu, one name is Yajña, Yajña-puruṣa. So anything performed to satisfy the Supreme Lord, that is called yajña.



*So other yajñas are not possible in this age, Kali*-yuga, Kali-yuga. The only yajña, this saṅkīrtana movement. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. If you want to perform yajña and if you are intelligent, su-medhasaḥ... The two words has been used in Vedic literature: su-medhasaḥ and alpa-medhasaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā this word has been used, alpa-medhasaḥ, tad bhavati alpa-medhasām, in the matter of worshiping the demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]., antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām [Bg. 7.23] If you get some resultant action by worshiping demigod, that is antavat. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He got some benediction from Lord Brahmā. Lord Brahmā is not ordinary demigod. He's the... Amongst the demigods he's the head, pitāmaha. So Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted benediction from Lord Brahmā to become immortal. So immortality is not possible. So Lord Brahmā said that "I am myself not immortal. How can I give you? It is not possible." So Hiraṇyakaśipu took indirectly, negative way, that "I shall not die this way, I shall not die this way, I shall not die this way," negative way. So he thought himself to be very intelligent demon. So even that benediction was given, but still, he was killed by Nṛsiṁhadeva. So therefore, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām. Even by tricks or by penance or austerities you take some benedictions from the demigods, even if you are awarded, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23]. People want to be satisfied with little benefit, with little benefit. No, that is not our mission. We want the supreme benefit. Supreme benefit is that you are now entangled in the process of birth, death, old age and disease in the material existence. The real benefit is how to save yourself from these four difficulties. As Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. We are embarrassed with so many difficulties, but real difficulty is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: birth, death, old age and disease. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give you ultimate benefit: no more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more old age. Always mind that.

*So the greatest benefit. The greatest benefit is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is offering. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says, namo mahā*-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. This greatest benefit you can get if you develop your dormant love for Kṛṣṇa. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



That is ultimate goal.



mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*So we have to achieve the highest benefit, go back to home, back to Godhead. So for this purpose, Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Lord Kṛṣṇa has not only appeared Himself, but with His associates. They are called Pañca*-tattva. So here it is explained, pañca-tattva avatīrṇa caitanyera saṅge [Cc. Ādi 7.4]. If you take guru, then there are six tattvas. But Caitanya personally has expanded, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. When you speak of Bhagavān, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. When Bhagavān... Bhagavān means His paraphernalia. Just like when we speak, "Now the king is coming," it is not that king is alone coming. The king is coming with his minister, with his commander, with his secretaries, with his so many officers. So when we speak of Bhagavān, don't think He is alone only. No. Pañca..., that Pañca-tattva. When Bhagavān incarnates, He comes with all the associates, His śakti-tattva, avatāra-tattva, prakāśa-tattva. Many paraphernalia He comes. So here Caitanya Mahāprabhu, avatīrṇa. Here it is said, pañca-tattva avatīrṇa caitanyera saṅge [Cc. Ādi 7.4]. Caitanyera-saṅge... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. So He must have His associates. Associates. That is Bhagavān. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is explained, the beginning of understanding, how Bhagavān lives in the spiritual world



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*Govinda is not alone. Govinda is associated with the surabhīr abhipālayantam, many millions and thousands of surabhī cows. He tends so many cows. And lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānam. We are flattering one Lakṣmī, goddess of fortune, but in the spiritual world, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata, many, many millions, Lakṣmīs, goddess of fortune. Sambrahma-sevyamānam, with great respect. Here we are flattering one Lakṣmī, goddess of fortune, "Mother, give me some money," but there the Lakṣmīs are flattering Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa's position. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣam.



*So Kṛṣṇa is never alone. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is never alone. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, caitanyera saṅgi gaṇe, nitya*-siddha boli māne. Gaurāṅgera, gaurāṅgera saṅgi gaṇe, nitya-siddha boli māne, sei yāya vrajendra-suta-pāśa. That is the explanation of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. So either Kṛṣṇa or Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whenever They appear, They appear with Their associates. So here Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has appeared with Pañca-tattva. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣā-kṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana [SB 11.5.32]. He has appeared, these five tattvas. In our exhibition ground we have first placed these five tattvas: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu, Gadādhara Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu, and Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura. Nityānanda Prabhu is the immediate expansion of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Baladeva-tattva. Baladeva means who gives strength for spiritual advancement. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo nāyam ātmā balahinena labhyaḥ. These are the Vedic injunctions. So without Baladeva's or Nityānanda's grace, one cannot make advancement.

*āra kabe nitāi*-cānda karuṇā karibe

saṁsāra vāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be



*This is the grace of Nityānanda Prabhu. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura explains, āra kabe nitāi*-cānda, karuṇā karibe. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is aspiring for the day when Nityānanda Prabhu will be pleased upon him. Just like Jagāi-Mādhāi was delivered by the mercy of Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu, so we have to pray Nityānanda Prabhu. He's very merciful. He's so kind, Baladeva, He gives spiritual strength. Then we can approach the Supreme Lord. Therefore we chant "Nitāi-Gaura." This is the process. We cannot change this policy. Pañca-tattva must be worshiped; otherwise wherefrom we shall get...? The spiritual master... Nityānanda Prabhu is the spiritual master. Or spiritual master is the replica, representation, of Nityānanda Prabhu. So when Nityānanda Prabhu is pleased, then we become detached from this material attraction.



*People, conditioned soul, means they have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, and they are suffering, that's a fact. Tri*-tāpa yantana, adhibhautika. But because they are illusioned, they are thinking, "We are enjoying." This is called illusion. They are suffering, working day and night like an ass, and still, he's thinking that he's very happy. But he does not know that there is a life where there is no such thing as to work hard. Just like Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's associates in Vṛndāvana, they are jolly, tending their cows, getting milk in the village, sufficient food, dancing with the gopīs. That is life. No mill, no slaughterhouse, no motorcar. You see? No skyscraper building. Here see. So this is another philosophy, another philosophy: simple life, simple life with Kṛṣṇa. Simple life we can live still, but we do not agree. If we live simple life, people will criticize, "Oh, this is primitive, primitive. What you have made advancement?" But they have no sense. Anyway... So if we really want relief from this materialistic way of life, then we should take shelter of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His saṅkīrtana movement. Then our misunderstanding of existence will be cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And we have created a civilization which is blazing fire, blazing fire. Everyone, all politicians, even ordinary citizens, they are now suffering. The politicians cannot give them enough food. They simply take vote, and the price of foodstuff is increasing. This is a very precarious condition. It is called saṁsāra-dāvānala, "the blazing fire of material existence." We may extinguish for the time being, but again... Dāvānala is used for this purpose. Nobody sets fire, but it takes place. That is called dāvānala. In the forest nobody goes to set fire, but it takes place by dealings. So when we deal in a different way than Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there will be fire immediately. This dealing will produce fire. That has come already. So this is the only remedy, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's process:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*So here is the statement, pañca*-tattva lañā karena saṅkīrtana raṅge. You take to this movement, chant and dance. All problems will be solved.



Thank you very much. (end)



740307CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.5

-

Māyāpur, March 7, 1974



Pradyumna: Translation: "Spiritually there are no differences between these five tattvas, for on the transcendental platform everything is absolute. Yet there are also varieties in the spiritual world, and in order to taste these spiritual varieties one should distinguish between them." [Cc. Ādi 7.5]



*Prabhupāda: Pañca*-tattva. The Absolute Truth is divided into five subject matter of relishing transcendental mellow. Advaya-jñāna, without any difference. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam: [SB 1.2.11] Asolute Truth is one, but still, there are varieties, transcendental varieties. Just like Brahman, impersonal Brahman; and Paramātmā, localized aspect of the Supreme Lord, Paramātmā; *and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*-they are one. There is no difference. Brahman is not different from Bhagavān, and Bhagavān is not different from Brahman. Bhagavān is addressed by Arjuna as Parabrahman. Brahman realization, gradually... First realization: impersonal Brahman; then localized Brahman; *then personal Brahman. The personal Brahman is called Parabrahman, the Supreme Brahman. Impersonal Brahman is the beginning of realization of the Absolute Truth. That is not final. Therefore those who are satisfied with impersonal Brahman, their knowledge is not perfect. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. The realization of the Absolute Truth is the platform of viśuddha-sattva. So unless one comes to the platform of personal realization of the Lord, one is supposed to be aviśuddha-buddhi: intelligence is not yet perfectly pure.



*So here it is said, eka*-vastu. So far the substance is concerned, that is eka-vastu. Just like in logical categories the substance is there, and there are many categories. Take for example that the Absolute Truth is one, but there are categories: "This is śakti-tattva; *this is prakāśa*-tattva; this is incarnation tattva; this is marginal potency; *this is external potency." Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. There are many multipotencies. Because the original is Absolute Truth, in one sense everyone is in the same absolute platform. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there is a verse, idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ: "This viśva, the whole cosmic manifestation, is Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Just like Kṛṣṇa manifested His universal form. So every part and parcel is Bhagavān, but still, it is different. This is the philosophy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's acintya-bhedābheda: simultaneously one and different, inconceivable. We cannot conceive at the present moment how one thing can be the same, at the same time different; *therefore it is called acintya, inconceivable. But bhedābheda... Just like we are-everything*-you study. It is acintya-bhedābheda, one and different. Take for example your own body and you, soul. The soul is different from the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. The dehi, the soul, is within the body. The body is not the soul. So this is different. Soul is different from the body. We have studied. But in another sense, soul is not different from the body, another sense. How? Because the body, the material body, is also coming from the same source, and the spiritual soul is coming from the same source, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, apareyam. Kṛṣṇa said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva [Bg. 7.4]. "These material elements, they are My bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā, eight kinds of separated energy." Even though it is separated energy, it is the energy of the Supreme Lord. We have discussed many times. Just like the fire and the heat and light. Light is separated from the fire, heat is separated from the fire, but at the same time, heat and light is not different from the fire. This is to be understood. This is called simultaneously one and different, inconceivable.

*So Māyāvādī philosophers, they take one side only, that it is one. They do not understand what is the difference, what is the different taste, varieties. They cannot understand the varieties, unity in diversity. They cannot understand. Just like sugar and milk*-you prepare so many sweetmeats: "This is rasagullā, this is sandeṣa, this is burfi, this is this, this is that." Hundreds of preparation you can... But what is that? That sugar and milk. So similarly, variety is the mother of enjoyment. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand. Therefore they have been described in the Bhāgavata, vimukta-māninaḥ, aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They are thinking that now they have become one with the Supreme, Nārāyaṇa. They address between themselves, "Namo nārāyaṇa," that "Everyone has become Nārāyaṇa." This is their... "Everyone is Nārāyaṇa," that's all right, but still, different. That distinction is made by the Vaiṣṇavas. The same example: The different energies, material energy and spiritual energy, they are different. One is superior, one is inferior. But when you go to the central point from where all energies are coming... Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. This is the Vedic injunction, "From where everything is emanating."

agnir mahī gaganam ambu marud diśaś ca

*kālas tathātma*-manasīti jagat-trayāṇi

yasmād bhavanti vibhavanti viśanti yaṁ ca

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



Agni is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Mahī, the earth, it is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Agni, mahī, gagana, the sky, it is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Ambu, water, is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Agni mahī gaganam ambu... Marut, air, is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Because it is coming from Kṛṣṇa, it is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa. But when you taste the air breezing and the water and the earth and the fire, you cannot say, "Because the air is coming from Kṛṣṇa and water is coming from Kṛṣṇa, so either I may be in the air or in the sea, it is all the same." We are living in air, but if I think that air and the water is the same, I jump over the ocean, that is not very good idea. But actually, air is also Kṛṣṇa, water is also Kṛṣṇa, earth is also Kṛṣṇa, fire is also Kṛṣṇa, because they are all Kṛṣṇa's energy.



*So in this way, if we try to understand that Pañca-tattva, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda... This is Pañca-tattva: Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsādi. Śrīvāsādi means jīva-tattva. The jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, viṣṇu-tattva, these are all tattvas. So Pañca-tattva. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the supreme tattva, Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. We are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya.

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad*-dvayaṁ caikyam āptam...

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. When Kṛṣṇa wants to enjoy... The enjoyer... Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He's enjoyer. So when He wants to enjoy, that is not material enjoyment. That is spiritual, superior energy, not material energy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the supreme, therefore He enjoys the superior energy. So Kṛṣṇa's... The Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā is not material. One who understands Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa līlā as material, they are misled. Kṛṣṇa cannot enjoy anything material. He's supreme pleasure... If you say that "We are seeing daily that you are offering prasāda, the vegetable, rice. They are all material," no, they are not material. This is real understanding. How it is not material? That is acintya, inconceivable. Kṛṣṇa can turn material into spiritual and spiritual into material. That is Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable power, acintya-śakti. Unless you accept acintya-śakti of Kṛṣṇa, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Acintya-śakti.



*So this is simultaneously one and different. This acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva you'll find everywhere in Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Similarly, here the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta is trying to explain that pañca-tattva eka-vastu, they are one Kṛṣṇa, but āsvāda, taste... Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Kṛṣṇa is the ocean of all pleasure, reservoir of all pleasure. There are different types of pleasure. Just like pleasure like master and the servant. The master is also pleased by the service of the servant, and the servant is pleased by rendering service to the master. This is taste. Husband and wife: Husband is pleased having a wife, wife is pleased having... These are the different tastes: between master and servant, between friend and friend, between father and son, mother and son, between the lover and the beloved. These are different tastes. So this taste is required, transcendental mellow. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand this taste. They think everything is one. And in the material world also, we accept, "Variety is the mother of enjoyment." Without varieties, although everything is spiritual... In Vṛndāvana everything is spiritual. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, yebā jāne cintāmaṇi. Just like this place, Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's place of pastimes, and the Vṛndāvana-dhāma, the place of pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa, they are one and the same. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, yebā jāne cintāmaṇi, tā 'ra haya vraja-bhūmi vāsa. These are the theses given by great ācāryas.

So we should not consider that Nityānanda is different from Kṛṣṇa, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, or Advaita Prabhu is different from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. But at the same time, They are different. This is inconceivable, a taste. If you worship Nityānanda Prabhu, it is as good as to worship Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The best thing is... Because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared in His five different features, therefore the ācāryas, they worship all of them at a time. That is our prayer:

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



*This is the varieties, transcendental varieties, different tastes. Nityānanda Prabhu is guru*-tattva, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu is sevya-tattva. The guru is teaching, Nityānanda Prabhu is teaching how to worship Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



bhaja gaurāṅga kaha gaurāṅga laha gaurāṅgera nāme

ye jana gaurāṅga bhaje sei amāra prāṇa re (?)



*This is Nityānanda Prabhu's business. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that gaurāṅgera balite habe, pulaka śarīre, hari hari balite, nayane ba'be nīra. Gaurāṅga. So to become immediately in ecstasy of transcendental love, if we chant this śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, it is easier. There is no offense in chanting this Pañca-tattva, but there is offense if you do not properly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. There are ten kinds of offenses, you know. But in chanting śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, there is no aparādha. You chant in any way; *you'll get the result. This is the difference, taste. This is variety. Although there is no difference by chanting śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda and Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra, but still by chanting this Pañca-tattva, you'll get immediately, quickly, result. Therefore our process is to chant the holy names of the Pañca-tattva and then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. That is perfect. And neither mixing. The mixing taste is called rasābhāsa. Rasābhāsa. And we don't manufacture anything. Just follow. We disagree with the persons who chant that bhaja nitāi-gaura rādhe-śyāma. No. We must follow strictly. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We cannot manufacture simply for some worldly cheap reputation and prestige. If we manufacture something, that will not help us. We must follow. Mahājano yena. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. We must follow the mahājanas. So you'll find in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Kavirāja Gosvāmī, in every chapter he begins, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, jaya advaita..., gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. This is the process.



*So we may read herewith one commentary by my Guru Mahārāja Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. "In his Anubhāṣya commentary Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura describes the Pañca*-tattva as follows: The supreme energetic, the Personality of Godhead, manifesting in five kinds of pastimes, appears as the Pañca-tattva. Actually there is no difference between them because they are situated on the absolute platform, but they manifest different spiritual varieties as a challenge to impersonalists to taste different kinds of spiritual humors, rāsas..." Because they do not accept the different tastes. The Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy, the only difference is... Although the aim is one, Absolute Truth, but the difference is that they do not accept varieties, varieties of taste. Therefore they fall down. It is not our version, but it is stated in the Vedic literature, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ: [SB 10.2.32] "By severe penance and austerities, these Māyāvādīs, they go up to the Brahman effulgence, but from there they fall down, fall down." Because for want of varieties. You cannot live without varieties. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: "The Absolute Truth is ānandamayo by nature," abhyāsāt. There are the interpretation of the Māyāvādīs of this Vedānta-sūtra, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). But we see that the Supreme Absolute Person is ānandamāyā. Kṛṣṇa, you'll never see without ānanda. He is, I mean to say, taking care of the cows, He's dancing with the gopīs, He's playing with His cowherd boys. Ānandamāyā. These are ānanda māyā. These are the varieties.

The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand; *therefore they think that "This Kṛṣṇa*-līlā is māyā." Therefore we call them Māyāvādī. Everything... Māyā māyā, neti neti. They take Kṛṣṇa also as māyā; *therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. Because a living entity comes in this material world accepting this material body, similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes, they think that He has also a material body. This is Māyāvādī. Kṛṣṇa has no such thing. Therefore you'll find in Dr. Radhakrishnan's book, when Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], he says, "Not to the Kṛṣṇa person, but the Absolute which is within the Kṛṣṇa." He does not know that Kṛṣṇa is not different from His body. That he does not know. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6].

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. He does not accept this mayic body. Etad īśanam īśasya. That is the, I mean to say, power, omnipotency of Kṛṣṇa. Even He accepts this material body, it does not mean that He is material. Just like we see the Deity, the Deity, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa Deity, in our front. Everyone will say, "Oh, this is a Deity made of brass, material." But no, it is not material. You have to study in that way. Arcye viṣṇu śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. These are nārakī buddhi. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity as material, śiladhiḥ, considering as metal or stone or wood, and guruṣu nara-matiḥ, and guru as ordinary human being. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ: a Vaiṣṇava, to consider, "Here is American Vaiṣṇava and here is a brāhmaṇa vaiṣṇava." No, Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. This is absolute. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guru, although he is appearing like human being, he should not be considered. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. These are the injunction of the śāstras. Suppose we are worshiping here. The Māyāvādī will say, "They are worshiping a brass, metal Deity." So are we so fools that we are spending so much money for worshiping a lump of metal? That they do not know. This is acintya-bhedābheda. And fact is that. Kṛṣṇa is omnipotent. He can accept your service in any way, as He likes. This is called arcā-vigraha. As Kṛṣṇa's avatāra is there, here is also another avatāra, arcā-vigraha. He is so kind. You cannot see Kṛṣṇa, you cannot touch Kṛṣṇa at the present moment, but Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He appears before you as you can touch, you can dress, you can offer your respect, you can see. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. But don't think that Kṛṣṇa has become metal. No. And even if He becomes metal, there is no difference. And what is this metal? That is Kṛṣṇa's energy. We have to understand in that way.



*So this acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva... Pañca-tattva-eka-vastu, nāhi kichu bheda rasa āsvādite. Rasa āsvādite, the mellows, transcendental mellows. So these chapters of Caitanya-caritāmṛta are very... These are postgraduate study. You have to read it very carefully and as they are described. We have tried to describe them as far as possible for being understood by us, but we should be very careful.

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



Thank you very much. (end)





740309CC.MAY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.7

-

Māyāpur, March 9, 1974



Pradyumna: Translation: "Kṛṣṇa, the reservoir of all pleasure, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, the supreme controller. No one is greater than or equal to Śrī Kṛṣṇa..." (noise)



Prabhupāda: (aside:) Stop this.



Pradyumna: "...yet He appears as the son of Mahārāja Nanda." [Cc. Ādi 7.7]



*Prabhupāda: (noise) (aside:) Stop. Svayam bhagavān kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Whatever Kavirāja Gosvāmī is speaking, not out of his own whimsical way, whatever he's speaking, he's following the paramparā system. That is Vaiṣṇavism, or ācārya. Ācāryavan puruṣo veda. (noise, talking) (aside:) Stop this. Unless we accept the ācārya in the paramparā system, we cannot understand things as they are. It is not possible. So Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he's describing this Caitanya*-caritāmṛta strictly according to the verdict of the śāstras. His statement is that Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. Svayam bhagavān kṛṣṇa. Bhagavān is person; Bhagavān is not imperson. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. First realization of the Absolute Truth by speculative knowledge is impersonal effulgence of the Lord, which is called brahmajyoti. Then next realization is Paramātmā, the localized aspect of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But realization of Kṛṣṇa, that is the ultimate realization. Svayam bhagavān kṛṣṇa.



*Bhagavān means six opulences. Nobody is richer than Bhagavān, nobody is stronger than Bhagavān, nobody is more beautiful than Bhagavān, nobody is wiser than Bhagavān, and nobody is more renouncer than Bhagavān. That is Bhagavān. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). That is Bhagavān. Svayam bhagavān. He is opulent-ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa-not partially. He knows everything. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. He knows past, present, and future. He says, therefore, that "All these, My dear Arjuna-yourself, Myself and all the soldiers and kings who have assembled here*-it is not that we were not existing before. We are existing at the present moment also, and in future also we shall continue to exist." And how we shall exist? Individually. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa would have said that in future, when we become liberated, then we shall become one. No. He says, "Even in future also, we shall continue to exist like this. You are individual. You are Arjuna. I am Kṛṣṇa. And all other living entities..." That is real understanding. Every one of us living entities, we are all individual persons, and Kṛṣṇa is also individual person. This is knowledge. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kṛṣṇa, or God, He's also nitya, eternal. We are also nitya, eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We do not die. That is the preliminary knowledge of spiritual understanding, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am individual." Nityo nityānām. Kṛṣṇa is individual person; *I am also individual person. When Kṛṣṇa says that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], it does not mean that I become one with Kṛṣṇa or merge into the existence of Kṛṣṇa. I keep my individuality, Kṛṣṇa keeps His individuality, but I agree to abide by His order. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna that "I have spoken to you everything. Now what is your decision?" Individual. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is forcing Arjuna. Yathecchasi tathā kuru: [Bg. 18.63] "Now whatever you like, can do." That is individuality.

*So this is the ultimate knowledge, that, this Māyāvāda philosophy, that to become one, merge into the existence, merge into the existence means we merge into the order of Kṛṣṇa. Our individuality at the present moment is māyā, because we are planning so many things. Therefore your individuality and my individuality clashes. But when there will be no more clashing-we shall agree, "Central point is Kṛṣṇa"*-that is oneness, not that we lose our individuality. So as it is stated in all Vedic literature and spoken by Kṛṣṇa, we are all individual, all individual. Svayaṁ bhagavān ekale īśvara. But the difference is that He is the supreme ruler, īśvara. Īśvara. Īśvara means ruler. Actually He is ruler, and we are also ruler, but we are subordinate ruler . Therefore He is ekale īśvara, one ruler. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇa, in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Ekale īśvara. Īśvara cannot be many. That is not īśvara. The Māyāvāda philosophy that everyone is God, that is not very right conclusion. That is rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa says, mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. One who does not submit to the supreme īśvara, the Supreme Lord, you should know it perfectly well that "Here is a mūḍha, rascal," because it is not that everyone, we can become īśvara. That is not possible. There is then no meaning of īśvara. Īśvara means the ruler. Suppose we are in a group, this, our International Society. If everyone becomes ruler or ācārya, then how it can be managed? No. There must be some head. That is the principle in our practical life. We follow our political leaders. We cannot say that "I belong to this party" unless I follow a leader. That is natural.

So that is the Vedic statement, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There must be one leader, the leader of the same quality, nitya. I am nitya, Kṛṣṇa is nitya. Kṛṣṇa is also living entity; I am also living entity. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. So what is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and me? The difference is that there are two nityas or two cetanaś. One is described as singular number, and the other is described as plural number. Nityo nityānām. This nityānām is plural number, and nitya is singular number. So God is nitya, one, singular number, and we, we are being ruled. We are plural number. This is the difference. And how He is ruling the plural number? Because eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's supplying all the necessities of life of all these plural number; *therefore He's īśvara, He's Kṛṣṇa, He's God. One who provides all the necessities of life, He's īśvara, He's Kṛṣṇa, He's God. So we can very well understand that we are being maintained by Kṛṣṇa, and why we should not be ruled by Him? This is a fact. Now, you can see in this country, in this village, Māyāpur, their so many food grains are growing, but who is supplying? That is Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible to grow these food grains in your factory. No. That is not possible. He's helping us. He has stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. Unless you eat sufficiently, unless you have food grains in stock, you cannot flourish. Bhutani. Bhavanti. Bhavanti means flourishing. So both animals and men, they must eat sufficiently. There must be food grain sufficiently. So that food grain you cannot manufacture in your factory. You may start a very big factory, Goodyear Tire factory, but that tire also will not move when there is no supply of petrol. This is your position. You are dependent even for this tire and petrol, and what to speak of this food grain. So who is supplying the food grain? The supplying person is... Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That singular number individual person, He is supplying. You can say prakṛti, nature, is supplying. No. Nature is not supplying. Nature is the agent of supply. Real supplier is Kṛṣṇa. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Nature is working under the instruction or the indication of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.

*In Brahma*-saṁhitā also, it is stated, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Here it is the vibharti, and bibhavanti... So nature is dependent, although nature has got this power, very extensive power, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya, to create, to maintain and to annihilate. Such power nature has got, and therefore she is called Durgā, Durgādevī. In Bengal there is great pompous Durgā-pūjā. That is nature worship. So... But nature is yasya ajñāya; *she is working under the order of Kṛṣṇa. We Vaiṣṇava, it is not that we do not care for Durgā*-devī. Somebody, they say like that. No. We offer her all respect because she is the agent of Kṛṣṇa, but we do not accept foolishly that Durgā is all in all. No. That we do not accept. Durgā is the agent, working agent of Kṛṣṇa. Yasyajñaya. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā [Bs. 5.44]. Sā ceṣṭate yasya icchānurūpam. And Kṛṣṇa also confirms this: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the supreme īśvara, controller. She is conducting the activities of the material nature. But those who are mūḍhas, they are captivated by the wonderful action of material nature. That is called materialist. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ mohitaḥ. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are bewildered. Nature's business is to keep you fool always. And if you can surpass the bewilderment of material nature, if you agree to be controlled by the supreme controller, then your life is successful. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta author says that "Here is the controller," ekala, "one." And Kṛṣṇa also says, mām ekam. Not that imitation Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be befooled. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja.

*So all the verdict of the śāstra is the same. It is simply our misfortune that we do not understand the verdict of the śāstra. In the śāstra, everything is there. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. That is the verdict of the śāstra. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said. In Bhāgavata also said,

*ete cāṁśa*-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ

kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam

*indrāri*-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ

mṛḍayanti yuge yuge

[SB 1.3.28]



*So try to understand. And Kṛṣṇa said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "No more superior." You don't misunderstand that there is something superior to Kṛṣṇa. That is rascaldom. So long we shall remain such rascal we shall not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, na māṁ prapadyante duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Prapadyante. Who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa? You'll say that "There are so many big, big persons, and they do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So they are all mūḍhas?" Yes, they are all mūḍhas. That is the verdict of the śāstra. We cannot make any compromise. That is not possible, against the principle of the śāstra. If we keep one competitor of Kṛṣṇa, then we are mūḍha. Here it is said, advitīya. Not that there is another Kṛṣṇa, dini*-Kṛṣṇa, no. There is no... There cannot be any competitor of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more anyone, bigger authority than Me." And here is also, Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaja, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, says, advitīya: no competitor, sir. Here we are all gods, the rascaldom, that "Everyone is God." But there is competition of Gods. But in case of Kṛṣṇa there is no such possibility, no competition. Nobody can compete with Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present He showed it by practical example. Nobody could compete Him in either knowledge, either strength or love affairs or any field of activities. There was no competition.



*Now, Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, He married sixteen thousand wives. Where is competition? One cannot marry even sixteen wives*-and he becomes God. Just see the foolishness. Even from materialistic view, who is that god who can marry sixteen thousand wives? Is there any god, so-called rascal god? Is there any possibility? Kṛṣṇa showed, yes. Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed from the very childhood when He was three months old by Pūtanā. But He killed the Pūtanā rakṣasī, not He was killed. Similarly, Aghāsura, Bakāsura, this asura, that asura, simply from the beginning of His life, Kaṁsa and others, from the rogues, the asuras, they were making plan to kill Kṛṣṇa as soon as He is born. Kaṁsa, he was planning that "As soon as Kṛṣṇa is born..." He was trying to kill Kṛṣṇa's mother Devakī, but with argument of Vasudeva that "Don't do this. Your sister's son will kill you, but your sister will not kill you, so let the son be born. I shall bring it to you," Kaṁsa believed the honorable words of Vasudeva. Because he knew that "Vasudeva is very respectable, honorable man. He has promised the children, the child, will be brought to me," so he saved his sister. He was such a cruel. The rogues and cruel, they do not care even for mother and sister. They can kill anyone, you see. That is the roguism. So Kaṁsa was that type of rogue. But Vasudeva, by his intelligence, saved the situation, but as honorable person, he brought all the children to Kaṁsa. You know this history.

*So the Kaṁsa or the asura's plan is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is going on. Everyone, "God is dead. God is dead." When I first went to your country the philosophy was that "God is dead." But they admitted, "No, God is living. Swamijī has brought in saṅkīrtana." That also they admit. Yes. So God cannot be dead. If we are not ever dead*-na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]-how God can be dead? That is another foolishness. God cannot be dead. Nitya. Then there is no meaning of nitya. So this is the position of Kṛṣṇa; He is the Supreme Person, supreme ruler without any competitor. Advitīya, no competition. Here we have got competition, but Kṛṣṇa there is no competition. There cannot be any competition. You cannot say that Lord Śiva or Lord Brahmā or any other demigods, they are also as good as Kṛṣṇa, equally. No. That is not possible. Then he would not have used this word advitīya. There cannot be any competition. If somebody puts any competitor before Kṛṣṇa, he's a pāṣaṇḍī.

yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahma*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvenaiva vīkṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



*"Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Person, if one compares with Nārāyaṇa with such exalted demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahma...," brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ, "what to speak of other Indra, Candra*-they are nothing in comparison to Brahmā. Brahmā is the creator of this universe. So even such creator, even so powerful demigod as Lord Śiva, cannot be compared with Kṛṣṇa." Advitīya. Cannot be compared. That is pāṣaṇḍī. Sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam. So those who are comparing, "All the demigods and Kṛṣṇa, they are on the same level. You can worship anyone," they are all rascals. Because here it is said advitīya, Kṛṣṇa cannot be compared with anyone else. That is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. They may be īśvara. Lord Śiva may be īśvara, Lord Brahmā may be īśvara, but they cannot be parama īśvara. That is not possible. Parameśvara is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1].



*So... But, at the same time, Nandātmaja, or Vasudevātmaja. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. That is dealing between His devotee and Himself. Although nobody can become Kṛṣṇa's father, because He is the original father*-aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]-but He agrees to become the son of His devotee. This is called devotional dealing. Śānta, dāsya sākhya, vātsalya-rasa. This is the dealing of vātsalya-rasa. The father... Nobody can become father of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. He is the father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. He is the original father. Then how nandātmaja? How Nanda Mahārāja can become the father of Kṛṣṇa? No. That father means he wanted to become the best servant of Kṛṣṇa. When I become father of my child, I am the best servant of the child, actually. You see the children moving, and the mother is taking care. So the mother is the best servant of the child. So this is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. They want to become one with the God, but we keep ourself always servant of God, and to become the best servant of God is also to become His father and mother. This is nandātmaja. Therefore one devotee prayed, aham iha śrī-nandaṁ vande yasyālinde paraṁ brahma, śrutim apare smṛtim itare. The devotee is praying that "Somebody is studying the Vedas, somebody is studying the Purāṇas, the smṛtis," śrutim apare smṛtim itare, "and somebody is studying Mahābhārata to understand God." But the devotee says, "I do not want to understand God. I want to worship Nanda Mahārāja, under whose..., in the courtyard of his house the Parabrahman is crawling." That is nandātma... That is the, I mean to say, superior position of nandātmaja, Nanda Mahārāja. So this is philosophy. Ordinary men cannot understand. But Vaiṣṇava philosophy is so nice that instead of becoming one with the Supreme, they want to become the father of the Supreme. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Nandātmāja. Rasika-śekhara. This is also a pleasure. Kṛṣṇa wants to be subordinate to His devotee as son so that He may be punished. He is punishing everyone, but He wants to be punished also. That is His pleasure. And who will punish Him? His father and mother, superior. Or superior lover, Rādhārāṇī, can punish Him.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific and sublime. Try to understand. Always read the books. Don't try to understand Kṛṣṇa ordinarily.

manuyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



To understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy, but if you follow the mahājana, if you try to understand the philosophy through the paramparā system, then you'll realize Kṛṣṇa and your life will be successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



740315CC.VRN

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.8

-

Vṛndāvana, March 15, 1974



Pradyumna: Translation: "Lord Śrī *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*, is the supreme enjoyer in the rāsa dance. He is the leader of the damsels of Vraja, and all others are simply His associates." [Cc. Ādi 7.8]



*Prabhupāda: Before this verse, the author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta has described:



svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa ekale īśvara

advitīya, nandātmaja, rasika-śekhara

[Cc. Ādi 7.7]



*Kṛṣṇa has got many, unlimited forms. Advaita*-acyuta-anādi-ananta-rūpam. Svāṁśa-vibhinnāṁśa. Some of the forms are called svāṁśa. Svāṁśa means God, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva, They have expanded in so many ways. So all the Viṣṇu-tattvas, They are called svāṁśa, personal expansions. And others, they are called vibhinnāṁśa. The demigods, the inhabitants of the higher planetary systems within this material world, or the devotees in the spiritual world, we also, we are, although conditioned souls, we are vibhinnāṁśa. We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa, but we are not equal to the Viṣṇu-tattva. We are fragment fires. The example is given, just like the big fire and the spark fire. So we living entities, we are spark fire. We are also fire, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, vibhinnāṁśa... Aṁśa means part and parcel. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Spirit, and we are part and parcel. We are also spirit, but we are not supreme. That is the difference. Svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa ekale īśvara. So actually, īśvara means the controller. The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa.



*So in the next verse the Kṛṣṇa's business is rāsādi*-vilāsa. He's busy in dancing with the gopīs. He has no other business. Just like we try to imitate Kṛṣṇa. Big, big rich men, they go to the ball dance. Especially in your country, at night, big, big businessmen, politicians, they go to the night club for dancing. You know that. And they pay fifty dollars for entrance fee. I have seen in France, Paris. And then other fees for dancing with particular girls, and other things. So wherefrom this propensity comes, dancing? That comes from the Supreme Lord. Rāsādi-vilāsa. Because Kṛṣṇa has the business of dancing and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so we have got the same spirit of dancing. But because we are in the material world, the material covering has perverted the dancing propensity. Otherwise, wherefrom we get the idea of dancing? Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedānta-sūtra says that everything is born of the Absolute Truth. So unless the Absolute Truth has got this dancing propensity, wherefrom we get it? This is the logic. We cannot have anything without that thing being present in the Supreme Absolute Truth. That is the meaning of janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. But this dancing, our dancing, ball dancing, and that dancing is not the same. This is perverted reflection with inebrieties, dissatisfaction, frustration. But in the dancing of Kṛṣṇa there is no such things. No inebrieties, no frustration. Because that is not false; that is real.

*So in the Vedas we understand the nature of the Absolute Truth as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). He's ānandamaya, always in pleasure potency. So when Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Personality of Godhead, wants to enjoy ānanda, so He expands His ahladini-śakti. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. This is Vedic injunction. He has got multipotencies. So when He wants to enjoy, He expands His internal potency, ahlādinī-śakti. That is Śrīmati Rādhārāṇī. Don't think Śrīmati Rādhārāṇī a ordinary girl. No. Then you will mistake. How Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, can dance with ordinary girl? No. That is not possible. Cid-vilāsī. He is enjoyer of the internal potency. That is described by Śrīla Svarūpa Dāmodara.

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api (bhuvi purā) deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*śrī*-caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ caikyam

*āptaṁ rādhā*-bhava-dyuti...



*Caitanyākhyam, kṛṣṇākhyam, like that. So rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya, the loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, that is the expansion of Kṛṣṇa's ahlādinī-śakti. Sandhinī-śakti and ahlādinī-śakti... There are many potencies of Kṛṣṇa.



*So Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman. Paraṁ Brahman. He is accepted as Paraṁ Brahman in the Bhagavad*-gītā by Arjuna: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. He's Paraṁ Brahman, Supreme Brahman. The Māyāvādīs, they cannot understand the Supreme Brahman, or the Supreme Ātmā, Paramātmā. These words are there, ātmā, paramātmā; brahma, paraṁ brahma; *īśvara, parameśvara. These words are there. But they, on account of their poor fund of knowledge, they think ātmā and Paramātmā the same, or īśvara or Parameśvara is the same, or Brahman or Paraṁ Brahman is the same. That is poor fund of knowledge. There cannot be any competition of the Parameśvara or Paraṁ Brahman or Paramātmā. Therefore in this verse it is said, svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa ekale īśvara. Īśvara, or the Supreme Absolute Truth, cannot have any competitor. Asamaurdhva. These words are there. Asama. Asama means there is no equal. And aurdhva, and nobody is greater. Asamaurdhva. Nobody is greater than Kṛṣṇa, and nobody is equal to Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophy that everyone is God, everyone is Kṛṣṇa, that is not substantiated by the Vedic literature. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is used there. The Parameśvara, Paraṁ Brahman, Paramātmā, that is Kṛṣṇa. Not we are. We are very fragmental portion of Kṛṣṇa. Very, very small, spiritual spark. So as the sparks from the fire falls down, it loses its original sparking capacity or fire elements. We have seen it. When the spark falls down from the big fire, then it is extinguished. No more fire. It is carbon. Similarly, when we are detached from Kṛṣṇa, we are jīva*-bhūta. Then, gradually, if by good association, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and spiritual master, we gradually come to the spiritual position, then we become brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20].

*At the present moment, being materially absorbed, accepting ourself as one of the products of this matter... Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. I am thinking that "I am product of this material world." "I am product of India," "I am product of brāhmaṇa," "I am product of this family, that family." So this is called jīva-bhūta. And when one understands that "I am not product of this material world. I am not American. I am not Indian. I am not brāhmaṇa. I am not śūdra. I am servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is called brahma-bhūta. Śrī Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He said that "I am not brāhmaṇa. I am not sannyāsī. I am not kṣatriya. I am not householder. I am not brahmacārī. I am not sannyāsī. I am not... I am...," This is definition by negation. He said positive definition: gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. "That is my identification. I do not belong to these material categories. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, who provides, who maintains the gopīs." Therefore it is said, rāsādi-vilāsī, vrajalalanā-nāgara. Vrajalalanā-nāgara: He is the leader of the Vrajalalanā, damsels of Vrajabhūmi. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. These gopīs, vrajalalanā, they are not ordinary girls. Then you will mistake. They are ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency, expansion of pleasure potency. Śrīmati Rādhārāṇī is the direct pleasure potency, and the all the gopīs, they are expansion of Śrīmati Rādhārāṇī. Therefore He is called vrajalalanā-nāgara. So don't think... You have come to Vṛndāvana. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa had rāsa dance with ordinary girls or Kṛṣṇa was ordinary man. As Kṛṣṇa was not man, He's God, similarly, the gopīs and Śrīmati Rādhārāṇī, they're internal potency of God, or Kṛṣṇa. This is... This should be understood. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Mūḍhas, rascals, they think that I am a human being, ordinary human being." And therefore they imitate. Sometimes the rascals imitate rāsa dance. "Kṛṣṇa had rāsa dance; *then we can have also rāsa..." But they do not understand that Kṛṣṇa's rāsa dance is not ordinary ball dance like that. No. It is an imitation, perverted imitation. Because the tendency's there in Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have also got the tendency. But we do not know how to enjoy that dancing spirit. That is our illusion. We think this ordinary dance and Kṛṣṇa's dance is the same thing. No. That dancing, to take part in that dancing, it requires many, many millions of years tapasya. It is not ordinary thing. Itthaṁ brahma*-bhūta... There is a verse that kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ, sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. To join with the rāsa dance of Kṛṣṇa, or to play with Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy, it requires kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ, many, many millions of births' pious activities.

*So Kṛṣṇa's pastimes in Vṛndāvana with the cowherds boys and with the gopīs, they are all spiritual. They are not material. But Kṛṣṇa manifests, exhibits the līlā, coming here personally so that you may hear about Kṛṣṇa and you may be attracted: "So how I can go and play with Kṛṣṇa? How I can go and dance with Kṛṣṇa?" Or "How I can become a, in paternal affection with Kṛṣṇa? How I can become a tree, a grass, in Vṛndāvana, so that Kṛṣṇa may trample over me?" This is called Kṛṣṇa*-prema. So Kṛṣṇa practically demonstrates, for the facility of the conditioned soul.

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He comes here, exhibits Himself, how He is dealing in His spiritual abode. Cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa, in the spiritual world, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is engaged in tending the cows, surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. So when He comes on this planet, in this universe... Kṛṣṇa rotates His touring. There are innumerable universes, and in every moment there is Kṛṣṇa-līlā is going on. That is called nitya-līlā. The example, I have given several times. Just like the sun is rotating within the orbit. Now it is, say, eight o'clock at night. But at this time, there is six o'clock, seven o'clock, nine o'clock, ten o'clock-everything is there. Similarly, every moment, Kṛṣṇa's līlā is going in some of the universes. There are innumerable universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. So in each universe, Kṛṣṇa-līlā is going on. And in rotation, after some lakhs of years, again Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet. This is... Therefore Kṛṣṇa's līlā is nitya-līlā. So just to attract us, that "You are fond of dancing. Why don't you come back to Me and dance with Me?" this is Kṛṣṇa's business. "Why you are rotting in this rotting dance? You want association. You want sporting. Why don't you come to Me and take part in My sporting with the cowherds boys?" This is invitation of Kṛṣṇa.



So one who has got intelligence, they will try to enter into the pastimes, transcendental pastimes of the Lord, either as a cowherd boy or as a servant or as a flower, as a tree, or the water of Yamunā, or the land, or the father and the mother and the conjugal lover. Or it may be as enemy, as Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Pūtanā. They are also blessed because they are acting with Kṛṣṇa. This is the sum and substance of Vṛndāvana līlā. Kṛṣṇa comes, He exhibits His līlā in Vṛndāvana to attract the conditioned souls, who are engaged in false līlā, temporary līlā, or hellish līlā. Kṛṣṇa wants to save us. The propensity is there. Kṛṣṇa says, "Not here. Not in this material world. This is perverted. You come to Me." But the Māyāvādīs, because they have poor fund of knowledge, they think that "If again there is līlā, there is sporting, there is dancing, so that is here. Then it is māyā." In their poor fund of knowledge, brain cannot accommodate that Kṛṣṇa's līlā and this līlā are not the same. Not the same. They think when there is līlā, then it must be māyā; therefore they are called Māyāvādī. Their idea is that liberation means minus this līlā, no more līlā, simply stop everything. Or voidism.

*But that is not the fact.... The fact... Just like a diseased man. He is always drinking bitter medicine, lying on the bed and passing stool in the bed. Very miserable condition. So he wants to commit suicide. So he cannot understand that after being cured from the disease, he will eat very nicely, he will lie down on the bed very nicely, he will no..., have no miserable condition of life. He cannot understand. He says, "Again lying down on the bed and again eating? Oh, this is māyā." They do not know that. Therefore they are called poor fund of knowledge. They think that by avoiding this līlā, making minus, making void, making zero, we become liberated. No, that is not liberated. That is a disgusted negation only. And as soon as I am disgusted with something, I want to make it "No." Just like sometimes a man commits suicide. He thinks that "This life is simply disgusting. So finish this life." So Māyāvādī philosophy is like that. They want to finish this. But finishing, then what you are accepting? That they do not know. Therefore they are Śūnyavādī, Nirviśeṣavādī. If there is life... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Simply by committing suicide, how you'll be happy? Because tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You'll have to accept another body. Either you commit suicide or die naturally, you have to accept. But if you accept natural death and natural body, then your karma kṣaya, you annihilate your karma, but if you commit suicide, then you become ghost. Because nature's punishment. You got a body and you neglected it, so you now you become, remain without body. That is ghost. Ghost means who does not possess this material body, but he has got the subtle body. That is ghost.

*So without knowledge what is the aim of life, what is the actual life, if something is, somebody is misguided by so*-called guides or guru, then his life is spoiled. Therefore Vedas gives us direction,

*tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet

*samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



These are the definitions.



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So we have to approach the right spiritual master. That is our system, everyone's system. Ādau gurvāśrayaṁ sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. This is the direction of Śrīla Rupa Gosvami. So we have to accept the bona fide spiritual master. Who is spiritual master? Now, evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. By the paramparā system, one who has got the knowledge, he's a spiritual master, and the proof is-how one is spiritual master*-that means paramparā, as Kṛṣṇa says. He does not change the words of Kṛṣṇa, but he follows the words of Kṛṣṇa and preaches the words of Kṛṣṇa. That is the proof of spiritual master. That's all. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Firm faith, unflinching devotion at the lotus feet of the Lord, and speaking what the Lord spoke. No manufacturing. That is bona fide spiritual master. Otherwise, we shall be misguided, bogus. Bogus are described in the Bhāgavatam: mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. Sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. They have manufactured their own ideas. That will take time. But if we approach the real spiritual master, bona fide spiritual master, then our material disease will be cured even in this life. Then material disease will be cured when we develop our dormant love for Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa.



*So here the author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta is describing about Kṛṣṇa. Here it is: svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa ekale īśvara. Isvara, Bhagavan, is Kṛṣṇa. Don't accept these humbug, bogus Kṛṣṇa and bogus Bhagavān. Then you'll be misled. And nowadays, especially India, there are so many gods. No! Here it is said, svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa ekale īśvara. If you accept this, then you understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And if you manufacture another dini Kṛṣṇa, no, that will not help you. Kṛṣṇa is one, but He has got many expansions. Therefore the expansions are called āra yata saba dekha. There are... Just like Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma, Viṣṇu, Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, Catur-vyuha Nārāyaṇa. There are hundreds and thousands of Viṣṇu-tattvas. So āra saba yata dekha tāṅra parikara, expansions. Real, original Kṛṣṇa, the Bhagavān, is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].

*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu-kalā-niyamena-tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. So those who have come to Vṛndāvana, they should try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the business. And unfortunately, they are busy in some other business. And if I criticize them, they become angry. So what can I do? I have to speak the truth. I cannot, I mean to say, amalgamate real and nonreal. That is not possible. So Kṛṣṇa... Try to understand. Here it is said that svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa ekale īśvara. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa also says. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "Nobody is superior than Me." And how these rascals, they think that "I am equal to Kṛṣṇa"? Kṛṣṇa cannot be two. Kṛṣṇa is one. But He can expand. Rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu-kalā-niyamena-tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Kala, aṁśa-kala, avatāra. There are description in the śāstra. So we have to understand how Kṛṣṇa expands. There are expansion. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam. Just like Kṛṣṇa... Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, innumerable living entities. And not only that. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Aṇḍāntara-stham. Kṛṣṇa, as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, is within this universe. Not only within this universe, but within the atom, every atom. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ-paramāṇu-cayāntara. So Kṛṣṇa is so all-pervasive. But that does not mean everything Kṛṣṇa. [break] The dogs and hogs of Vṛndāvana, they are also fortunate because they are in Vṛndāvana. So one life of dogs and hogs, then they will be liberated. But why should we take the risk of becoming dogs and hogs? Finish this business of understanding Kṛṣṇa in this life by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Remain pure, observing the rules and regulations. Then your life is successful. At the end: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is the highest success of life.



Thank you very much. (end)



670201CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.39-47

-

San Francisco, February 1, 1967



*Prabhupāda: ...accustomed to follow the Vedic principles. Just like in Christian religion, those who do not follow the Bible, they are called heathens. Similarly, in Muslim, those who do not follow the Koran, they are called kafirs. Similarly, those who do not follow the Vedic principles, they are called nāstika or mlecchas. Nāstika means those who do not believe in the Vedic principles, they are called nāstika, atheist. And those whose behavior is not very clean, they are called mlecchas. So in comparison to Hindu mode of living and others in the world, there is very great difference, social sanctity and personal sanctity. So therefore, formerly the mlecchas means the Muhammadans, because they are meat*-eaters, they do not take bath daily and there are so many things. So even those persons who were delivered by Lord Caitanya, but the author says that He could not deliver the Māyāvādīs, the impersonalist sannyāsīs. That means it was easier for Him to deliver the mlecchas, but it was difficult for Him to deliver the Māyāvādīs. In other words, the author is trying to place the position of the Māyāvādī sannyāsī less than the mlecchas. Less than the mlecchas.



So, sabe eḍāila mātra kāśīra māyāvādī. Māyāvādī means materialist. Māyā means this matter, and vādī means those who stick to this principle of material... There are different kinds of materialists. Because we should always know that up to the point of intelligence, it is matter. First point is the senses, the gross. The grossest type of materialist is that they are addicted to sense gratification. So this is materialist. And above this, there are mental speculators. They are also materialists because mind is matter. So the sense gratifiers and the mental speculationists, and those who are trying to reach spiritual perfection by bodily exercise... Because body is not at all spirit; it is matter. But by intellectually, by making proper adjustment... Just the only benefit of such exercises is to concentrate the mind. The mind is very disturbed. So that is also materialist. That means jñānī, yogi and karmī. Karmī means those who are working very hard day and night simply for sense gratification. That's all. They are called karmīs. And jñānī means they are finding out solution by mental speculation. And yogi means they are trying to find out spiritual salvation by bodily exercises. They are all, in strict sense, they are all materialist. There is no question of spiritualist. Spiritualism (means) there where one understands that what is the constitutional position of spirit and act according to that. Therefore bhakti, this devotional service, is only spiritualism because those who are devotees, they know that they are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and therefore to be engaged in transcendental loving service of the Supreme Lord is spiritualism.

So,

vṛndāvana yāite prabhu rahilā kāśīte

*māyāvādī*-gaṇa tāṅre lāgila nindite

[Cc. Ādi 7.40]



*Māyāvādī... The followers of Śaṅkara's school, they are generally called Māyāvādī. And another Māyāvādī are called the Buddhists. So in the Kāśī, in Benares, there were two kinds of Māyāvādīs. One kind of Māyāvādī, the Buddhists, they have got still Sarnath. Buddhists temples there are because Lord Buddha, he started his meditation near Gayā at about hundred miles off from Benares. Then his disciples established monasteries near Kāśī because Benares is well*-known sacred place since a very long time, so they also established there. Formerly there was no such animosities between the Hindus and the Buddhists. They were practically on the same platform, but philosophically they were different. Just like the Māyāvādīs, the followers of Śaṅkarite, they are still Hindus. They are not out of it. Similarly, Buddhists also were considered as Hindu. But when Buddha religion was completely driven away from India's boundary, then now it is considered another sect. So the Kāśī Māyāvādī means both the Buddhists and the followers of Śaṅkarites.



*sannyāsī ha*-iyā kare gāyana nācana

*nā kare vedānta*-pāṭha kare saṅkīrtana

[Cc. Ādi 7.41]



*mūrkha sannyāsī nija*-dharma nāhi jāne

*bhāvuka ha*-iyā phere bhāvukera sane

[Cc. Ādi 7.42]



*So when Lord Caitanya was living at Benares, on His way to Vṛndāvana... Not... He never made His headquarters anywhere else except Jagannātha Purī. Even Benares... He was worshiper of Vṛndāvana, but He did not make His headquarter at Vṛndāvana. So when on His way to Vṛndāvana He stopped at Benares and was staying at Candraśekhara's house, and He was taking His meals at the house of Tapana Miśra. So when He was passing*-because His only propaganda was Hare Kṛṣṇa, just we are doing-so when He was passing on the road, all the people joined, all the people. It is... It has got so attraction. Even nonsignificant persons like us, when we chant, it attracts people, and what to speak of Lord Caitanya? He is personally chanting. So it attracted many people. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu within three, four days became very famous man, and everyone began to say, "Oh, from Bengal, nice sannyāsī, beautiful sannyāsī, a young sannyāsī has come, and He is come," and they were chanting and dancing, and people were very much attached to Him. In this way there was some propaganda in the city.



*But the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they could not tolerate. They were, I mean to say, backbiting. What they were saying? "Oh, here is a sannyāsī, and He's dancing." According to Māyāvāda sannyāsa, this dancing and singing is forbidden, forbidden. In Muhammadan religion also, dancing and singing is forbidden. I do not know what is there in the Bible, but I understand in the Bible there is saṅkīrtana allowed. I have asked our Kīrtanānanda to write some article, "Saṅkīrtana and Bible," because he is, he knows Bible very well than other members. So we shall see very nice how in Bible there is saṅkīrtana. The Muhammadan Koran, they do not... In some of their sections, there is saṅkīrtana, not within the mosque, but without. Anyway... So similarly, these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they also do not like singing and dancing. Of course, now they are stopping, finish. They are also taking now to this process of singing and dancing in India. So formerly they used to, I mean to say, decry. So sannyāsī ha*-iyā kare nācana gāyana: "Oh, here is a sannyāsī. He is dancing and singing." Nā kare vedānta-śravaṇa: "He does not give His attention for studying Vedānta," kare saṅkīrtana, "and always engaged in Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." Mūrkha sannyāsī: "That means He has (no) knowledge. He has not studied all this Vedānta philosophy, and He's a nonsense. What He can do?" Sometimes we are considered a nonsense because we have no other stock except chanting. And actually, we have no stock except chanting. But why do we talk of philosophy? Because the fools want to talk of philosophy. Otherwise, there is no need of talking philosophy. Simply by chanting, everything is complete. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was showing this example, and other Māyāvādī sannyāsīs criticizing Him, "Oh, here is a, a foolish, is a," mean, "a illiterate sann..." Because there were many illiterate sannyāsīs also in India. "Illiterate sannyāsī. He does not know how to execute..." (aside:) Oh, I have forgotten. [break] "...how to execute the sannyāsa life. Therefore He's chanting and dancing." This sort of criticism was going on. Bhāvuka ha-iyā phere bhāvukera sane: "And there are other sentimentalists who are also equally foolish and ignorant. So therefore they are following this sannyāsī."

E saba śuniyā prabhu hāse mane mane: "When Lord Caitanya was being criticized in that way, He was smiling. He was smiling, 'What can I do?' " So,

e saba śuniyā prabhu hāse mane

upekṣā kariyā kāro nā kaila sambhāṣaṇe

[Cc. Ādi 7.43]



"He was very grave. 'Oh, let them criticize. Let Me do My duty. That's all.' "



upekṣā kariyā kaila mathurā gamana

mathurā dekhiyā punaḥ kaila āgamana

[Cc. Ādi 7.44]



So because He was busy at that time for visiting Vṛndāvana, so He did not take care of this, and He went, left Kāśī, or Benares, after three, four days, and, er, although He was criticized, but He did not challenge. He went to Vṛndāvana.



kāśīte lekhaka śūdra-śrīcandraśekhara

tāṅra ghare rahilā prabhu svatantra īśvara

[Cc. Ādi 7.45]



*Now, at Benares He stayed and in the house of Candraśekhara. Candraśekhara was not a brāhmaṇa, and a sannyāsī is not supposed to stay any place except in the house of a brāhmaṇa or in a temple. Otherwise, he is considered lower. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not care for all these formalities. He used to stay with Candraśekhara although he was not a brāhmaṇa, a śūdra, a laborer class, or little more than that. So why? Because He is completely independent, because He is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is taking the shape of a hog. Keśava dhṛta-śūkara*-rūpa. Hog is considered to be the lowest animal because it eats stool. Just like in human society, those who are dog-eaters, they are considered the lowest of the human society, similarly, amongst the animals, the hog is considered to be the lowest of the animals because it eats stool. But Kṛṣṇa took the appearance of a hog. That does not mean that Kṛṣṇa has become a hog. He is fully independent. And what sort of hog? That hog was covering practically half of the universe. It, He was so big. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is very nice explanation of the incarnation of hog. The... And They were being praised. The incarnation of hog was being praised from higher planets. The higher planets, three higher planets, they are resided by most pious men. They are called Janaloka, Tapoloka and Satyaloka. These three higher planets, they are considered to be the most pious place within this material world. So they were praying, and when the incarnation of hog was sprinkling water by, I mean to say, shaking His body, and the sprinkle of the water was dropping in those three lokas, planets, and they were thinking themselves that "We are becoming purified," although they are considered to be the most pious and purified residents of this material world, still they prayed that "We are becoming purified." So Kṛṣṇa or His devotee, they're independent. They are not under the rules and regulation of this material world. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed this example, that He was staying at a place which is considered abominable by other sannyāsīs.



*Kāśīte lekhaka śūdra-śrīcandraśekhara. Lekhaka śūdra means he was a clerk, clerk. The clerk, clerical post was offered to the śūdras, to the laborer class. There was a strike in Calcutta of the clerks. George and Skinner (?), an European firm, they had many jute (indistinct). The clerks, I mean to say, made a strike. So when their, I mean to say, chief man met the manager, so, and asked that "Whether you want to compromise with us?" the manager said, "No. I don't wish to compromise with you. I don't care for you because you are educated laborer." He gave the title to the clerks, "educated laborer." So actually in Hindu society, the clerks were called educated laborers. So here it is lekhaka śūdra. Lekhaka śūdra means clerk, but he's śūdra. Lekhaka śūdra śrīcandraśekhara, tāṅra ghare rahilā. But spiritually there is no such distinction. We should always remember that materially, there may be higher, lower class. There is, always, in every society, in every country. But spiritually there is no such consideration. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's propaganda. He made Haridāsa Ṭhākura*-he was a Muhammadan-as the spiritual master for saṅkīrtana, namācārya. And He picked up Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, who were rejected by the Hindu society, and He made them gosvāmīs. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's peculiarity. And here also we see that a śūdra, a laborer class, a clerk, who is considered to be lower in the society, He was staying at his house.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu... And Rāmānanda Rāya, he was also a śūdra, and he was a householder and a politician, governor, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu took instruction from him. Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him the preference of being a teacher. He was hesitating. Rāmānanda Rāya was hesitating, "Oh, Sir, You are sannyāsī, in the highest stage of āśrama, and You, in Your previous life You belonged to the brāhmaṇa sect. So You belong to the highest class, and I am a śūdra, I am householder, and I am a politician. So how lower I am in comparison to You? And You are taking instruction from me, so I am feeling hesitation." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No, no. You don't feel hesitation." He enunciated,

kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



"Never mind a man, whatever he is. He may be a laborer class, he may be a brāhmaṇa, or he may be a sannyāsī, or he may be a householder. It doesn't matter. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. Anyone." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, I mean to, highest con..., especially for the Hindu society. They have got so much caste distinction, lower and higher and this and that way. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu broke all these barriers. His simple process was: anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is welcome; he is the highest personality in the world. That was His proposal.



So He did not care that "What people will say that I am staying at a śūdra's place?" No.

*tapana*-miśrera ghare bhikṣā-nirvāhaṇa

sannyāsīra saṅge nāhi māne nimantraṇa

[Cc. Ādi 7.46]



So He was staying with a śūdra and He was taking His meals at another brāhmaṇa... He was also not sannyāsī, but he was a brāhmaṇa. So in this way He was staying at Benares.



sanātana gosāñi āsi' tāṅhāi mililā

*tāṅra śikṣā lāgi' prabhu du*-māsa rahilā

[Cc. Ādi 7.47]



So this, this incident is that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, first of all He visited Benares and went to Vṛndāvana. Then, while coming back, He stayed at Allahabad, Prayag, for ten days for instructing Rūpa Goswami. That we have already discussed. Now again He has come back to Benares. So He was staying at Candraśekhara's house, and He was taking His meals at Tapana Miśra's house. In the meantime, Sanātana Goswami came to see Him. Sanātana Goswami, after retirement, he had many troubles. He was arrested by the Nawab because Nawab thought him that he was very important hand. "He has now... By sentiment, he's going to Caitanya." So he thought it wise to arrest him. And Sanātana Gosvāmī had some money, so he bribed the superintendent of jail, and he let him go away. So with great difficulty, he reached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares, and for two months he was instructed all the principles of devotional service and different incarnations. We have... Some part of this Sanātana instruction, we have discussed. Again we shall discuss. So this Sanātana Gosvāmī met at Benares while Caitanya Mahāprabhu was returning back from Vṛndāvana. We shall discuss this point tomorrow.



Thank you very much. (end)



670203CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.49-65

-

San Francisco, February 3, 1967



Prabhupāda: While Lord Caitanya was residing at Benares, Rūpa, Sanātana Goswami met Him, and He taught him about Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the procedure to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For two months He instructed.



*itimadhye candraśekhara, miśra*-tapana

*duḥkhī hañā prabhu*-pāya kaila nivedana

[Cc. Ādi 7.49]



So while Lord Caitanya was residing at Benares, that Tapana Miśra and Candraśekhara submitted with great regret that "Sir, the other party, the Māyāvādī sannyāsīns, they are criticizing Your activities. Because You are chanting and You do not give much attention to the reading of Vedānta philosophy, they are criticizing that 'What kind of sannyāsī is He? He does not take part in the matter of studying Vedānta philosophy, and on sentiment He is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, and some innocent people are following Him.' So in this way they are criticizing."



kateka śuniba prabhu tomāra nindana

nā pāri sahite, ebe chāḍiba jīvana



It is the duty of devotees not to tolerate blasphemy. So they are presenting before the Lord that "The criticism by the other party has become unbearable. So something must be done. Otherwise, we shall die or commit suicide."



tomāre nindaye yata sannyāsīra gaṇa

śunite nā pāri, phāṭe hṛdaya-śravaṇa



*There are three kinds of devotees: kaniṣṭha*-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī and mahā-bhāgavata, bhāgavata, or those who are in the lower status, those who are in the middle status, and those who are in the highest status. Those who are in the lower status are beginners. Devotees, for them, the description is that,



arcāyām eva haraye

yaḥ pūjām śraddhayehate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ



*"In the lower stage, a devotee goes to the temple or to the church or to the mosque, with great devotion and faith offers prayers to the Lord, but he has no knowledge about other devotees," na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, "and he does not know the duty to others." A devotee should not be satisfied simply by elevating himself in spiritual advancement. He has got other duties also. What is that other duties? That those who are innocent, those who are not interested... Everyone is interested, but there are persons who have forgotten his relationship with God. Therefore it is the duty of the devotee to enlighten others. That is required. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he also preached the sense of God, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the duty of devotee. It is the duty of good son of God, but the..., those who are in the lower status, they have not developed such consciousness that "I have to preach the philosophy of God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness to others." They are simply satisfied themselves. They go to the church or mosque or temple, offer their prayers in devotion. That's all.



So the next stage is, one who is advanced spiritualist, he has got four visions.

*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā

yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ



"A person who knows what is God, and knows also who is a devotee, and knows also who is innocent, and knows also who is atheist..." There are four kinds of people. So atheist, innocent, devotee, and er, here, three classes, and God. God, God's devotee. One, God; second, God's devotee; third, innocent persons; *and fourth, atheists. So a person who has elevated himself to the second stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has got four kinds of dealings. First thing is, because he knows God, therefore he loves God, prema. His only lovable object is God, or Kṛṣṇa. And the second is the..., he makes friendship with the devotees of God. First thing is, because he loves God, therefore he makes friendship with the devotees of God. But God is the center. If you love God, then you can love others also very perfectly. For example... Of course, in your country I do not know, but in our country, suppose a girl is married to a boy, and the boy has got father, mother, brothers, and so many other relatives. As soon as the girl comes to the house of her husband, the father of the husband becomes the father*-in-law, or the mother of the husband becomes mother-in-law. So he has got..., she has got some duty to the father-in-law, to the mother-in-law, to the brother-in-law, but before marriage, she had no connection with these, all these people. Similarly, as soon as you make your connection revived... The connection is permanent. Your relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, is eternal, but we have forgotten. So as soon as it is revived, "Oh, I am the part and parcel of the Supreme," or "I am son of the Supreme," then your relationship with other sons of God becomes clear. That is universal brotherhood.



*So one who is in the second stage of development, he knows God, he loves God, and in relationship with God, he loves the devotees of the..., he makes friendship with the devotees of the God. Īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu. And so far the innocents are concerned... Innocent means they are not offender, but they do not know what is God, what is his relation, ordinary man. For them, the person who in the second stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his duty is to enlighten them. And those who are atheists, purposely against God, they should be avoided. Therefore there are four kinds of dealings for the person who is in the intermediate position. And those who are in the higher status of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they do not see anyone as against God. Their vision is that everyone is engaged in God's service. So there, there is only one vision, that everyone is engaged in God's service. They have no distinction. That is very higher stage. One should not imitate that stage.

So in the lower stage, these two gentlemen, Tapana Miśra and Candraśekhara, they are hearing the criticism against Lord Caitanya, but they are, I mean to say, placing themselves in the lower status, and they say that "We cannot bear this." Because they haven't got sufficient power to refute the arguments of the other party, therefore they are feeling sorry.

tomāre nindaye yata sannyāsīra gaṇa

śunite nā pāri, phāṭe hṛdaya-śravaṇa



Because, unless one is conversant with logic, arguments and Vedic literature, it is very difficult to defend. The more you can defend from the attacks of atheist, the more you should understand you have advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The atheists, generally, they will attack you, undoubtedly. But you have to defend yourself. So that is the business of the persons who are in the intermediate position.



*ihā śuni rahe prabhu īśat ha*-iyā

sei kāle eka miśra milila āsiyā



Eka vipra milila āsiyā. Now, while they were talking, Lord Caitanya and His two devotees, Tapana Miśra and Candraśekhara, so two, one brāhmaṇa came to invite Lord Caitanya.



āsi' nivedana kare caraṇe dhariyā

*eka vastu māgoṅ, deha prasanna ha*-iyā



The brāhmaṇa came and fell down on the feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and requested Him that "I have come to beg one thing from You. Please be kind to agree to this."



sakala sannyāsī muñi kainu nimantraṇa

tumi yadi āisa, pūrṇa haya mora mana



Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He was in the renounced order of life, sannyāsī, still, He was avoiding the company of the Māyāvādīs, who are impersonalists. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is personalist. So generally, that is the system still. The impersonalists, as soon as they see some personalist, they begin to attack by argument. So those who are not very highly developed, they avoid. But those who are conversant, they argue, so on. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, while He was staying at Benares, He was not very enthusiastic to mix with this Māyāvādī class of sannyāsīs. Therefore this man who invited all the sannyāsīs for a dinner, he also came to Caitanya Mahāprabhu and asked Him that "I know that You do not associate Yourself with the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. Still, I have come to invite You. Please accept my request."



*nā yāha sannyāsī*-goṣṭhī ihā āmijāni

more anugraha kara nimantraṇa māni'



"I know that You avoid the association. Still, I am requesting You. If You kindly accept this request."



Prabhu hāsi' nimantraṇa kaila aṅgīkāra. Now there were two incidences. One incidences, one incident is that His two devotees were very sorry because the other party was criticizing Him. And the meantime, another brāhmaṇa came to invite Him. So it was coincidence. Caitanya Mahāprabhu thought that this is an opportunity to meet the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs and to talk with him, to talk with them, how they criticized the personalists.

prabhu hāsi' nimantraṇa kaila aṅgīkāra

sannyāsīre kṛpā lāgi' e bhaṅgī tāṅhāra



So although previously He did not associate with the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, still, to please His devotees, who were very sorry to hear the criticism, He accepted the invitation so that He could meet them and talk with them.



se vipra jānena prabhu nā yā'na kā'ra ghare

tāṅhāra prerāṇaya tāṅre atyāgraha kare



"And so the invitation was accepted, and the meeting date was also accepted."



*āra dine gelā prabhu se vipra*-bhavane

dekhilena, vasiyāchena sannyāsīra gaṇe



"The next day the Lord went to the house of that person who invited, that brāhmaṇa, and He saw there were many other Māyāvādī sannyāsīs sitting together."



*sabā namaskari' gelā pāda*-prakṣālane

pāda prakṣālana kari vasilā sei sthāne



Now, just see the behavior of Lord Caitanya. Although He was not in agreement with the other party, still, because they were sannyāsīs, renounced order of life, Caitanya Mahāprabhu offered His respect by bowing down before them. It is the duty of everyone, not only between the sannyāsī and sannyāsī. It is the custom of Vedic system. As soon as one would see a sannyāsī, at once he should offer his respect. If he does not offer his respect, then it is enjoined that he should fast one day as punishment. He should not eat. "Oh, I saw a sannyāsī, but I did not offer my respect. Therefore the penance should be that I should fast one day." This is the injunction. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He was God Himself, but His behavior and His etiquette was excellent. At once He saw the sannyāsīs, He offered His respect. Pāda prakṣālana kari vasilā sei sthāne. And it is the system that when one comes from outside, he has to wash his feet before he enters room, especially for the sannyāsīs. So He washed His feet and sat down outside where the other sannyāsīs were sitting, a little off, just the place where He washed His feet.



vasiyā karilā kichu aiśvarya prakāśa

*mahātejomaya vapu koṭi*-sūryābhāsa



*And while He was sitting in that place, He was so nice and beautiful. He was only twenty*-four years old, and, or twenty-five years old, and very beautiful, very fair complexion, and He has accepted the sannyāsa order, the saffron cloth, and with tilaka. Everything looked so very nice that other sannyāsīs became attracted, "Oh, very nice." Prabhāve ākarṣila saba sannyāsīra mana: "The other sannyāsīs who were sitting, they were all attracted, 'A very nice boy sannyāsī.' " So uṭhila sannyāsī saba chāḍiyā āsana: "Automatically they were so pleased that they stood up to show Him respect, Lord Caitanya."



*Prakāśānanda-nāme eka sannyāsī-pradhāna: "The chief of the sannyāsīs who were sitting there, his name was Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī." Sarasvatī. The sannyāsīs, they have got different titles. According to Śaṅkara sampradāya, there are ten titles. And, according to Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, there are 108 titles. So the ten titles which the Śaṅkara sampradāya claim, that is also included in the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. They are called Sarasvatī, Bhāratī, I mean to say Vana, Araṇya*-in this way, there are ten names. My Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, he was sannyāsī, and his title was Sarasvatī. Sarasvatī. So Sarasvatī, Bhāratī, Tīrtha, Vana, Araṇya, Parvata, just like so many titles. So there was a sannyāsī who was the chief amongst other sannyāsīs. His name was Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He was great scholar.

*prakāśānanda*-nāme eka sannyāsī-pradhāna

prabhuke kahila kichu kariyā sammāna



"Now, offering respect to Lord Caitanya, he began to say..."



ihāṅ āisa, gosāi āisa, śunaha śrīpāda

apavitra sthāne vaisa, kibā avasāda



"O my dear Sir, why You are sitting so distant place and a filthy place? Please come here. Sit with us."



*Prabhu kahe,-āmi ha*-i hina-sampradāya. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu because He heard the criticism by this Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī that "This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who has come in Benares, He is not very learned," therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's replying him that "I belong to the lower-class sannyāsī. Therefore I am sitting in this filthy place. You better sit in higher places."

*prabhu kahe-āmi ha*-i hina-sampradāya

*tomā*-sabāra sabhāya vasite nā yuyāya



"So I am not fit to sit with you," Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied.



āpane prakāśānanda hātete dhariyā

*vasāilā sabhā*-madhye sammāna kariyā



He was learned man, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He could understand the hint given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He himself personally went to receive Caitanya Mahāprabhu and caught His hand: "Please come here. Sit with us. Why You are sitting here?"



Now, next, tomorrow, we shall discuss about their talks. Thank you very much. (end)



670206CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.66-76

-

San Francisco, February 6, 1967



Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, they are now together. Now there will be discussion. Now Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he (is) asking Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "I think Your name is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, and You are disciple, You have accepted this renounced order of life from Keśava Bhāratī." As I've explained to you, that there are ten different names in the Śaṅkara sampradāya of the sannyāsīs, and there are 108 names amongst the Vaiṣṇava sannyāsa. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He was initiated by Vaiṣṇava, He took sannyāsa, He accepted sannyāsa, from Bhāratī, who belongs to the Śaṅkara sampradāya, Śaṅkara sect. The rule is that if one has to accept renounced order of life, there is ceremony; as there is ceremony of initiation, there is ceremony of accepting this renounced order of life. And that ceremony must be performed by another bona fide, I mean to..., sannyāsī, renounced order. It is not that you take your cloth and get it colored and one day you become a sannyāsī. No. There are ceremonies. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu took sannyāsa from Keśava Bhāratī. This Keśava Bhāratī belonged to Śaṅkara sampradāya. Therefore Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī also belonged to Śaṅkara sampradāya. So he's asking that "I understand that Your name is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya."



*Now, there are different kinds of names of brahmacārī also under the guidance of a sannyāsī. So the person who is under the guidance of Bhāratī, the brahmacārī's name is Caitanya. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He took sannyāsa, He did not change His brahmacārī name. That is also very significant. Because in the Māyāvādī sannyāsa, as soon as they take sannyāsa, they think that, "I have become Nārāyaṇa." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He was regularly a sannyāsī, He did not change His name of brahmacārī. That means brahmacārī's meant for serving the spiritual master. So He continued to be a servitor. That is the significance. So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī's asking that "You are a sannyāsī of our sampradāya because You have accepted renounced order from Bharati. So what is the reason that You do not mix with us?" That is his first question. "And another complaint is that You are a sannyāsī. You should devote Your time in discussing philosophy, Sāṅkhya philosophy, and Vedānta*-sūtra. You should learn. You should understand. Why You have taken sannyāsa? And what is this, that You are simply dancing and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare?" This was his first question. Yes. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu was simply dancing and chanting. This is the specific contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Because, amongst the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, dancing and chanting is considered to be material. So that is also, they take, it is also one kind of sense gratification. So sannyāsa means they should stop sense gratification. So this is also, according to them, sense gratification, because they took it as ordinary singing.

*So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Why do you follow this sentimentalism, chanting and dancing? You are a... And some of the foolish persons, who have no knowledge, they also follow You. What is this?" Vedānta*-paṭhana, dhyāna, sannyāsīra dharma. "You have taken sannyāsa, renounced order of life. Your duty is to study Vedānta always and meditate." Tāhā chāḍi' kara kene bhāvukera... "And You have given up all these procedure. And You are simply chanting and dancing?" Prabhāve dekhiye tomā sākṣāt nārāyaṇa. "So far I see You, from Your bodily features, oh, You appear to be very glorious. You are very intelligent." Because He was boy. Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī was very elderly, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was only twenty-four years old. So he's appreciating that, "From Your face it appears that You are very learned, advanced. And why do You indulge in this sentimentalism?" This is very important question, and answer you should know. This saṅkīrtana movement... Hīnācāra kara kene, ithe ki kāraṇa: "So this is not deserving to a sannyāsī."

prabhu kahe-śuna, śrīpāda, ihāra kāraṇa

guru more mūrkha dehki' karila śāsana

[Cc. Ādi 7.71]



*"Yes. You are right, My dear Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. You are right. But there is reason why do I do it. Now I can explain to you. When I took sannyāsa from My Guru Mahārāja, from My spiritual master, he found Me a rascal and fool number one, rascal." So guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana: [Cc. Ādi 7.71] "So, because he found Me a foolish person, therefore he has chastised Me." Why? What is that? "He said mūrkha tumi: 'You are foolish. You have no education. You are illiterate.' " Tomāra nāhika vedāntādhikāra: " 'It is not possible for You to understand Vedānta.' " 'Kṛṣṇa*-mantra' japa sadā-ei mantra-sāra: " 'Therefore, You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. That will make You all right.' " Now here is the point, that was Caitanya Mahāprabhu a foolish person? No. He was not a foolish person. In His childhood He was known as Nimāi Pandit, the greatest learned man. Even when He was sixteen years old, He defeated another very learned fellow from Kashmir. So He was reputed scholar, and He was known. And Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī knew it that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, even in His gṛhastha āśrama or in His householder life, He was a teacher of nyāya, logic, and He's great learned man. He knew it. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My spiritual master found Me a rascal, a fool [Cc. Adi 7.71]. Therefore he said that 'You have no chance for understanding Vedānta. Therefore You take to this principle: chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare.' " What is the purpose of presenting Himself as fool and rascal? The idea is that in this age, 99.9% are fools and rascals; therefore it is very difficult for them to understand what is the purpose of Vedānta. He's representing Himself as one of the fools and rascals.



*So Cai..., according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the so*-called Vedānta societies, the so-called, I mean to say, learned scholars on Vedānta, they are not actually Vedānta scholars. They are all fools and rascals. Because Vedānta-sūtra is very difficult to understand. The compiler, the author of Vedānta-sūtra, is Vyāsadeva. He himself thought it wise that "I must leave one commentation of Vedānta-sūtra. Otherwise, in future, people will misunderstand and misuse Vedānta-sūtra." In this connection I'll, oh, I may declare herewith that some of you, if you read the Chicago speech by Vivekananda... That was, he was the first man. He came from India to preach this Hindu philosophy in 1893. Some of you know. So he has got his speech, Chicago speech of Vedānta. You'll see, it is simply rascaldom. Simply. By his speech it is written... If you can secure, you bring it, you'll see how rascaldom he was. You'll be surprised. Even a clergyman from this country, oh, he was surprised. "Oh, you come from India and you are decrying God in this way? Oh, I'm surprised." He was..., simply he has decried God: "Oh, why do you care for God? Throw Him, God. You are God." In this way, he has spoken.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years before, He knew it that in future the all these rascals will misinterpret Vedānta*-sūtra. Therefore He presented Himself that "I am fool." Vedānta-sūtra is not a very easy thing. Therefore Vyāsadeva, he explained Vedānta-sūtra in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The first aphorism of Vedānta-sūtra is janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now it is the time for understanding what is Brahman." The next sūtra is... "What is Brahman?" The next answer is janmādy asya yataḥ: "Brahman is that from whom or from where everything emanates." Now he explains janmādy asya verse:

janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ

*tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ

[SB 1.1.1]



*In this way, there is lucid explanation of Vedānta*-sūtra. Now, if you take Vedānta-sūtra, this janmādy asya aphorism, that Brahman is that Absolute Truth from where everything emanates, or everything is born... Janma means, janma means born, birth. And sthiti, sthiti means maintenance. Janmādi. Janma sthiti and pralaya. Pralaya means dissolution. This material world, it has got a date of its creation. Just like your body, it has got a date of its creation. It stays for some time, and again there is a date of its dissolution. You take the history of everything material, either you take this body, or take this world, or take any empire or any... Just like your American country, oh, it has a date of its beginning. Now it is staying. Now it will be, some day will come, there will be no more America. You should know it. That means, that is nature's law. Everything. Everything is born, it stays for some time, then it is dissolute, dissolved. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. All this thing, whatever material, that manifests, it comes out, it is manifested. It... Just like bubbles in the ocean. There are millions and millions bubbles created one second, and next second, it is finished. So janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. But this is the manifestation of material creation. Behind this, the, this spirit is there. Therefore that spirit is Brahman. In this way...



*Now, what is the nature of that Brahman? Is it impersonal or personal? Now, Vyāsadeva says, abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. No. "That Supreme Truth is cognizant. He knows." And Bhagavad*-gītā also confirms that, vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. The Lord says, "I know everything. I know..." Unless He's cognizant, unless behind this mani..., cosmic manifestation, if there is no brain, if there is no cognizance, how nicely it can be made so regulation, I mean to say, timely, everything is working? The planets are working. Do you think there is no brain behind this? There must be. Therefore Bhāgavata says yes, abhijñaḥ... Abhijñaḥ means He's cognizant; *He's not a fool. Therefore He's a person. Cognizant is a person. And it is said, svarāṭ. He also educated Brahmā. He also... Because Brahmā is considered to be the first created being in this universe. So Bhāgavata says, tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. Ādi-kavaye means the first created being, and brahma means this Vedic knowledge. So He impregnated Brahmā with Vedic knowledge. So these are the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. But there are so many foolish rascals, they are misusing Vedānta-sūtra in a different way. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu very cunningly represented Himself that "I am a fool. I am a rascal. Therefore My Guru Mahārāja, My spiritual master, chastised Me, that 'You rascal, You fool, You cannot understand Vedānta-sūtra. You better take this. That will make You happy.' " Or, in other words, at the present moment, the circumstances are so awkward that it is not possible to understand Vedānta. If you indulge in Vedānta-sūtra, it will be very difficult for you. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. "Just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That will make you everything progressive. Mūrkha tumi, tomāra nāhika vedāntādhikāra. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is representing Himself as the chief man of the fools and rascals, and He says that "My Guru Mahārāja, My spiritual master, ordered Me that 'You better chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will make You happy and progressive. That will make You one day understand what is Vedānta.' " 'Kṛṣṇa-mantra' haite habe saṁsāra-mocana.

*Now one may question, "Oh, Vedānta*-sūtra, understanding Vedānta-sūtra, one is liberated from this material entanglement. So you are asking me simply to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Will that purpose be served?" Oh, His guru said, "Yes, it will be served." He said, kṛṣṇa-mantra haite habe saṁsāra-mocana: "If You go on, continue this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, there will be a day when You come to the perfectional stage. Then You will be liberated." The same result as one gets out of studying Vedānta philosophy or Sāṅkhya philosophy, the same result also you will get by simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-nāma haite pābe kṛṣṇera caraṇa. "Not only that, the Vedantists, sometimes they cannot reach up to the Kṛṣṇa planet. But Your advantage will be that You'll not only be liberated, but You will be achieving the highest planet, planetary kingdom, or the kingdom of God, You'll be able to achieve there." And nāma vinu. Nāma vinu kali-kāle nāhi āra dharma. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained that, "This Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa is the only universal religious principle in this age." No other religion process will be effective because people are so many and diverted in different way. This is the common formula and this is the effective formula. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāma vinu kali-kāle: "Without chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, there is no other alternative for self-realization in this age of Kali."

*nāma vinu kali*-kāle nāhi āra dharma

*sarva*-mantra-sāra nāma, ei śāstra-marma



*Now the essence of all scripture is this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Essence. Sarva-śāstra*-marma means essence of all scripture. And sarva-mantra-sāra. And there are different kinds of hymns and mantras, and this is the, I mean to say, topmost part of all mantras. "In this way, My Guru Mahārāja asked Me to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."



*Eta bali' eka śloka śikhāila more. [break] ...dogmatic or dictator. Because one cannot be a guru or spiritual master if he creates something. No. He cannot create. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī that "My Guru Mahārāja, My spiritual master, has reason." Why? What is that reason? Kaṇṭhe kari' ei śloka kariha vicāre: "My Guru Mahārāja said, he gave Me one verse from authoritative Vedic literature, and he asked Me that 'You should always keep this verse within Your,' " what is called, " 'throat.' " That means, keeping in throat means... And what is that? This is a quotation from the Vedic literature, Bṛhad*-nāradīya Purāṇa. There are four Vedas, and the, there are supplementary Vedas also. There are eighteen purāṇas. So one of the purāṇas is called Bṛhad-nāradīya Purāṇa. So in that Bṛhad-nāradīya Purāṇa, this quotation is there:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*"In this age of Kali..." Kali means disagreement, quarrel and misunderstanding. This is Kali*-yuga, misguiding and, I mean to say, less intelligence, less merciful, living for short period. There are so many disqualifications in this age. So therefore, in the Bṛhad-nāradīya Purāṇa it is explicitly stated that,



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*Kalau means in this age of Kali there is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative. Thrice. Just like, when you want to stress upon some point, you say thrice: "Do this. Do this. Do this." Similarly, in the Bṛhad*-nāradīya Purāṇa, thrice it has been emphasized that you must take to this harer nāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. Why I must take it? Now, because there is no other alternative than this for your self-realization. If you at all want to know yourself, if you at all want to become perfect or, if you want, at all, to reach the goal of human life, then you must, you must, you must. "So My Guru Mahārāja..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My Guru Mahārāja, My spiritual master, asked Me to 'Keep this verse within Your throat and You go on chanting and I bless You that You will be liberated. You'll not only be liberated, but You shall also reach the highest goal, the Kṛṣṇa planet.' "



So we shall explain further tomorrow. Any question? (end)



670208CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.76-81

-

San Francisco, February 2, 1967



Prabhupāda:



...harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva

nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



Caitanya Mahāprabhu is explaining His position, why He's chanting this transcendental vibration,



Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



The reason is that Vedānta philosophy, because the Māyāvādī sannyāsīns... The Vedānta philosophy actually belongs to the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya because it was compiled by Vyāsadeva, who is the original spiritual master of this Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. Of course, the Māyāvādī philosophers, they also accept Vyāsadeva as their original spiritual master, but they have interpreted Vyāsadeva's views; *therefore they are not considered to be bona fide disciples. Just like you'll see in the Bhagavad*-gītā that Arjuna, in the beginning he was arguing with Kṛṣṇa, between friend and friend, but when he surrendered himself as student, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam... [Bg. 2.7]. He said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, now I am surrendering unto You. I accept You as my spiritual master." Śiṣyas te aham: "I am Your disciple, not friend." Because friendly talks, arguments, there is no end. But when there is talk between spiritual master and disciple, there is no argument. No argument. As soon as the spiritual master says, "This is to be done," it is to be done. That's all, final. So you'll find, throughout the whole instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, not that blindly. There is submissive presentation, "Kṛṣṇa, I cannot understand this." That is allowed. But it is not that you have to change the decision of the spiritual master. No. If you cannot understand, it is..., you should know it that "Due to my less intelligence, I just now do not understand what the spiritual master said, but that is already concluded. But I may try to understand so that I may not be misleading." That is the position. So just see. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a rascal, fool. Therefore he asked Me, 'You don't touch Vedānta-sūtra. It is not for You. You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.' "



*Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu's explaining, ei ājñā pāñā nāma la*-i anukṣaṇa. "After reception of this order from My spiritual master, I have engaged Myself constantly in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is disciplic succession. Even if you do not understand the version, the motive, of spiritual master, you have to follow without any argument. In the Bhagavad-gītā also you'll find this verse,

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

*ekeha kuru*-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

[Bg. 2.41]



*The purport is that those who are intelligent, they take the message from the spiritual master-whatever he says. And one has to execute that particular order without any deviation. That will make him perfect. There may be different orders for different disciples, but a disciple should take the order of the spiritual master as his life: "Here it is, the order. So let me execute it without any deviation." That will make him perfect. Just see, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, this is His instruction. He says, ei ājñā pāñā nāma la*-i anukṣaṇa. He did not think, "Oh, My spiritual master thought Me a fool, rascal [Cc. Adi 7.71]. Oh, why I am rascal? Let Me see Vedānta-sūtra. Why shall I not see?" Oh, that is rascaldom again. That is rascaldom again. You cannot deviate the order of the spiritual master by an inch if you really want success.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei ājñā pāñā: "I received this order from My spiritual master, and I follow it strictly." Nāma la*-i anukṣaṇa: "Because My spiritual master told Me that 'You don't touch Vedānta. You, You fool. You just go on.' " Or, in other words, Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a fool. He was a vastly learned man. He's representing the fools of the present age. What they will understand, Vedānta-sūtra? Their life is so molded by the present atmosphere, materialistic atmosphere, that they are unable to touch Vedānta-sūtra. They are unfit to touch even Vedānta-sūtra, what to speak of understanding it. Therefore they'll create more rascaldom to create so many Vedānta societies and they are the same rascals, still. For hundred years they are studying Vedānta-sūtra, and the same thing, the same bad habit-same illicit connection, same intoxication, same gambling. Everything is going on. And they're Vedānta-sūtra student? This is rascaldom. There must be change in life. Otherwise, what is the use of Vedānta-sūtra? Veda-anta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means end, end of all knowledge. Everyone is searching after knowledge, but there must be some end. What is the ultimate end? The Bhagavad-gītā says, vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛd ca aham: "I am the compiler of Vedānta. I am the knower of Vedānta." So, if you simply understand what Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, you are Vedantist. And what says Kṛṣṇa? What does He say? He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all rascaldom. Simply surrender unto Me." This is Vedānta. This is Vedānta. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada-pañcarātra].

*So Vedānta-sūtra means... To understand Vedānta-sūtra means that one has to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead, full knowledge, and knowing it fully, knowing his own position fully and God's position fully, one has to surrender. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That surrendered soul is a great soul who has surrendered, "Oh, God is great." That is Vedānta. Not that giving his own interpretation, as if Vyāsadeva was a fool, and he left Vedānta for being commented by another rascal. No. Then what is the authority of Vedānta? If you can... You are a common man. Your intelligence is so imperfect. You are cheaters, and your senses are imperfect. How you can comment on Vedānta which was compiled by Vyāsadeva, the most perfect personality, liberated personality? How you can comment on Bhagavad-gītā? It is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. So you have no right. If you at all want to study Vedānta-sūtra, you have to accept it as it is, without any change. That is understanding. Vedānta-sūtra... Just like, several times I have given this example in this class, that it is... Lord Caitanya said to Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya that "In the Vedas, it is stated that if you touch the stool of any animal, you'll be, I mean to say, infected. So you have to take your bath." Just like we go to evacuate in the bathroom and, after evacuating, you have to take bath. This is the system to become cleansed. This is Vedic system. But again the Vedas says that if you touch the cow dung, the stool of cow or another animal, oh, it is pure. Rather, if you are impure, by touching cow dung, you'll be purified. Now here is contradiction, that you... The Vedas says that if you touch the stool of any animal, then you become infected*-you have to take bath, cleanse yourself. And again you say that cow dung, which is also stool of another animal, if you touch it, then you'll be purified. Now, if you put your argument, "Oh, this is contradictory. So Veda is full of contradiction," no, it is not contradiction. It is fact. One doctor, Mr., Dr. Goshal, he is a medical college chemist. He analyzed this cow dung and found all antiseptic properties in cow dung. So this is Vedic injunction. Whatever is there, it is already tested, it is already experimented. You have simply to accept. Don't try to argue. This is acceptance of Vedānta-sūtra. Not that "Oh, I have got to serve some purpose, political purpose. So I'll have to prove from Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence." In our country, Gandhi, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. He wanted to prove that there... [break] ...by violence. So he was killed. How you can prove Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence? There is tacit order, "You must fight. The other party is impious. So you must fight." These are the injunction. You cannot change. That is not Vedānta-sūtra.

*Therefore Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "I accept the order of My spiritual master in toto, without any interpretation, without any argument, without any understanding. Whatever he has said, it is all right." This is acceptance of spiritual master. "Oh, I accept spiritual master, but I don't accept your order"*-this is not acceptance of spiritual master. If you at all accept somebody as spiritual master, you must test him. You must test him for at least one year if you have got doubts. And when you are convinced that "Here is a person whom I can follow blindly," then you accept. You haven't got to follow blindly. Spiritual master will not place before you anything unreasonable. But the process is that you cannot change the order of spiritual master. You cannot argue. You... Unless you are convinced that "I shall accept the order of this person without any argument," don't accept anybody as spiritual master. It is a false acceptance. Just see. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that. And other point is that if you take Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life, oh, He was a vast learned scholar, but He said that His spiritual master found Him the nonsense. Now how it is that? He was a great scholar, and how His spiritual master found Him a nonsense? So therefore, however you may be a great scholar, if your spiritual master finds you a fool, you must accept that you are a fool. You don't say, "Oh, I am such a great scholar, and unjustly my spiritual master says that I am fool." Then you lose the connection at once. You'll understand, yes, just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's disciple. He is, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking about His own discipleship.

Now His disciple, Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he also placed him in that way, that "I am a fool." That Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was great scholar in Sanskrit. He was great scholar in Parsi and Urdu. And he was minister, very learned man, and very man of position. But when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he said that "Ordinary people, they say that I am very learned man. And I am such a fool that I also accept their version. I think that I am learned man." "What is the objection? You are already learned. You are very good scholar." "Yes. Now I understand that I am fool because I do not know what I am. I may be materially advanced in learning, but if somebody asks me, 'Can you say what you are, wherefrom you have come, where you are going after death, why you are suffering all these material miseries? Can you have any remedy?' oh, there is no answer. So what sort of learned man I am? I cannot answer all these things. Therefore I have come to You." Similarly, Arjuna, when he was arguing with Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, if I kill my grandfather, then such and such thing will occur me. Oh, if I kill my brothers, the, my brothers' wives, they will be widow and they'll be corrupted, and there will be unwanted children," so many things. He was arguing rightly. That was not... That is from materialistic point of view. From materialistic point of view, you may be very great learned man. But every one of you must know that spiritually, you are damn rascal, nothing! Spiritually, all these persons who are very proud of their learning, they're all damn rascals. Asat. Simply rascals. Simply rascal. So you must know that "I am simply rascal" if you want to make progress in spiritual life. And what do you know about spiritual life? You do not know anything.

So that is the representation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says that "My Guru Mahārāja found Me..." It is better if you remain a fool always before your spiritual master. Then you'll make advance. And if you think yourself, even for a moment, that "I know something more than my spiritual master," you are fallen. This is called vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru nandana [Bg. 2.41]. That one vow, that "I have to follow the order of my spiritual...," that will make you advanced. The more you strictly follow the order of spiritual master, the more you become advanced. You do not become fool. Actually you become advanced. Otherwise, what is the use of...? It is not a formality. It is actually fact, if you at all want to make advancement in spiritual life, you must follow the orders of the bona fide spiritual master. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu, such a great scholar, and He's accepted as the incarnation of God, and He's showing us the example that "I followed the order of My spiritual master because he found Me a nonsense."

Nāma laite laite mora bhrānta haila mana. Now He's giving His practical experience. What is that practical experience? He says that "Although I followed, because I had no other alternative to follow the instruction, so I followed... Now I have experienced by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, I thought that I have becoming mad after it. I am feeling ecstasy, mad after it." Bhrānta. Bhrānta haila mana means "As if I become mad. When I chant..." Actually, if you chant sincerely, you'll feel some madness, that not this madness, not LSD madness, but it is spiritual madness. Spiritual madness. Spiritual madness. Bhrānta haila mana. Dhairya dharite nāri. "I cannot... I become impatient." Dhairya dharite nāri, hailāma unmatta. "Just like I became a madman. And what are the symptoms? Hāsi, sometimes I laugh, sometimes I cry, sometimes I dance without any fear. And sometimes I sing, and sometimes I become just like madman." Tave dhairya dhari' mane karilun vicara. Then, when He saw that "By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa these symptoms have developed in Me, so I thought, 'Oh, have I become mad? Why these things are coming on Me? '

tave dhairya dhari' mane kariluṅ vicāra

*kṛṣṇa*-nāme jñānācchana ha-ila āmāra



"Perhaps by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, I have now become a madman, and all My senses and knowledge are now covered. Because I am treating... I do not care for the society. I dance. I laugh. They are laughing at Me, 'Oh, this man has become mad. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and crying.' "



*So who is mad, who is crazy, that is to be studied. But he's thinking, the other man is thinking, "Oh, this man has become mad, chanting and dancing." So Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, says that "I was in doubt that whether I became a madman." Pāgala ha*-ilāṅ āmi, dhairya nāhi mane. "Perhaps I become a madman and I have no patience when I chant and dance and cry." Eta cinti' nivediluṅ gurura caraṇe. He goes again to the spiritual master: "My dear sir, I think I have become a madman." "Why?" "Oh, because you asked Me to chant. Now I am chanting, and the effect is that I am feeling some ecstasy by which I am sometimes crying and sometimes dancing and sometimes singing. So I do not know. What are these disease?" So kibā mantra dilā, gosāñi, kibā tāra bala: "I do not know what sort of mantra you have given to Me. I do not know what, what is the strength, what is the influence of this mantra." Japite japite mantra karila pāgala. "Now I have become mad. What is this?"

So we shall explain again tomorrow, how He became a mad... Thank you very much. (end)



670210CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.80-95

-

San Francisco, February 10, 1966



Prabhupāda:



...nāhi mane

eta cinti' nivediluṅ gurura caraṇe

[Cc. Ādi 7.80]



So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is describing His practical experience about chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. When He saw Himself that "I am getting almost like a madman," so He again approached His spiritual master and submitted, "My dear sir, I do not know what kind of chanting you have asked Me." Because He's representing always as a fool, He's presenting that He could not perceive, He could not understand what is happening, but He submitted that "These are the symptoms I have developed. Sometimes I cry. Sometimes I laugh. Sometimes I dance. These are some of the symptoms. So I think I have become mad."



kibā mantra dilā, gosāñi, kibā tāra bala

japite japite mantra karila pāgala



"I do not know what sort of mantra you have given Me, but it appears that I have become almost like a madman."



hāsāya, nācāya, more karāya krandana

eta śuni' guru more...



" 'This chanting makes Me obliged to laugh and dance and sing.' So when My spiritual master heard Me, he replied as follows."



*kṛṣṇa*-nāma-mahā-mantrera ei ta' svabhāva

yei jape, tāra kṛṣṇe upajaye bhāva



*Now the spiritual master is explaining, "Yes, this is the right result of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Unless You come to this emotional stage, transcendental emotional stage, You should know that You have not come to the perfectional stage of chanting. So I am very glad to see that You have chanted very nicely and You have developed the desired result." Kṛṣṇa*-viṣayaka premā-parama puruṣārtha. "Because this emotion means that You are developing love of Kṛṣṇa. And that is required, not that simply by official chanting You remain where You are. You should develop. This, I mean to..., laughing, crying, and dancing is due to emotion of love of Godhead. So this is not bad." He, I mean to say, informed, the spiritual master of Caitanya Mahāprabhu: yāra āge tṛṇa-tulya cāri puruṣārtha. "Now, the symptoms which You have developed is transcendental and above all other four perfectional stage."



What are the four perfectional stage? In the material world there are supposed to be four perfectional stage of human life. What is that? First perfectional stage is that when one becomes very expert in following the religious principles. That is also another perfectional stage of common man. You have got your principles of religions, say, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Jew. You have got your own Bible or Testament or Koran or *Vedas*. There are rules and regulation, rituals, everything. So one who follows those rules and regulations, they are called religionist. And what is the effect of becoming religionist? The effect is that you can live very peacefully without any material want. Simply by following the rules and regulation of your scripture, it doesn't matter in which religion you belong to, but if you follow the rules and regulation, then your life will be peaceful and there will be no material want. That is not, of course, peaceful. You cannot expect any peace in this material world because the major problem is birth, death, old age and disease. So you cannot check this. But somehow or other, your life will be peaceful and more than those, I mean to say, upstarts who do not follow any rules and regulation. You'll be in better position, far better position than them. So this is one perfection, to become a man of religiosity.

*Then, if you become a man of religiosity, then your economic wants will be almost nil. Dharma, artha and kāma. And, if your economic wants are fulfilled, then you can fulfill your sense enjoyment very nicely. We want economic development*-why? Because we want to... Ordinary man, who is in the material world, he wants to fulfill his sense... He has got so many demands of his senses, either in this world or in the other world. Suppose a man is trying by his, following the religious principle to go to other planets. What is the purpose of going to other planets, heavenly planets? It is for having a better facility for sense enjoyment. Just like, according to Hindu conception, the heavenly planet, Indraloka, it is said there are very beautiful women and very beautiful gardens, and they can drink soma rasa and enjoy life for ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to six months of this planet. So opulence, life, enjoyment, far, far greater than this; therefore they want to go to the heavenly planets. Similarly... These are facts. These are not, I mean to say, stories, or fiction. These are facts. Similarly, in the Koran also there is such injunction that if one follows the principles of Koran, in the next life they'll go to Hur(?), the land of the Hu(?), the same beautiful woman. Because we have got this material idea, sense gratification, and the last word in the sense gratification is sex life. That's all. So if we think that "Going to that place, I will have free sex life and beautiful man, beautiful woman, and nice drinking, nice eating," oh, so materialists, they think, "This is perfection of life. This is perfection of life." So dharma, artha, kāma, and the last stage is salvation. Salvationists. What are the salvationists? When a person becomes frustrated by become a man of religiosity, a rich man of economic development, and satisfaction of sense gratification, when he, one has seen that all these things has not given him any peace of mind, then he wants to become out of this scene and become one with the Supreme. This is called salvationist. So somebody is thinking void, somebody is thinking impersonal Brahman. So the last stage is to become extinguished in the void or impersonalism. That is called salvation. Salvation from this material entanglement.

So general people, they have got these four kinds of ideas: religiosity, economic development, sense gratification, and at last monism, or become one with the Supreme. That's all. In the Bengal, there is a proverb that mullah do musjik (?). Mullah do (?). Amongst the Muhammadans, the priest is called mullah. So mullah is going very hurriedly, and a person is asking...

Devotee: Your tape is off. It wasn't put in the machine right. It's behind this. It should be in front of it.



Prabhupāda: Oh, he has put wrongly. Stop it. [break] So all these activities are, up to the last stage, to become one. Therefore 99.9%, they will talk of void and impersonalism. They have no idea.



So Kṛṣṇa, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that this emotion, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, developing love of God, is far, far beyond these four principles of perfection, above the idea of becoming one with the Supreme.

*pañcama puruṣārtha*-premānandāmṛta-sindhu

brahmandi ānanda yāra nahe eka bindu



This pañcama puru... This is fifth dimension. One, religiosity; two, economic development; and three, sense gratification; *and four, to become one with the Supreme. So above these four, this is fifth. This is the fifth stage of perfection. What is that? Developing love of Godhead and getting emotion out of that. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this emotional stage is so transcendental and so elevated that there is no comparison with the other four principles. The perfection of the other four principles is enjoy to become one with Brahman. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this brahmānanda is just like a drop in comparison with the ocean. This emotion of transcendental love is compared with the ocean, and this brahmānanda, to become one with the Supreme, is just like a drop out of that ocean. So there cannot be comparison. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that there is no comparison. Brahmandi ānanda yāra nāhe eka bindu. Kṛṣṇa*-nāmera phala-'premā', sarva-śāstre kaya. Kṛṣṇa-nāme: "If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then the result is that you develop full-fledged love of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."



*Bhāgye sei premā tomāya karila udaya: "So I am very glad, Caitanya, that You have developed that symptoms by chanting. So it is very good, and it is very nice. You are very fortunate." Premāra sva*-bhāve kare citta-tanu kṣobha: "When one becomes..." Just like a man in love in this material world, also, he sometimes becomes just like madman, so similarly... Material manifestation is simply perverted reflection of the real love. Here there is no love. It is simply a reflection. Because the spirit soul is originally in love with the Supreme, so he is trying to express his loving sentiments or life's symptoms, but because it is not on the platform of the Supreme, therefore materially they are manifested sometimes, but it breaks. It breaks. It does not exist. So similarly, as in the ordinary love affairs there are so many emotions, similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this is the nature of love, nature of love. Premāra sva-bhāve kare citta-tanu kṣobha. Kṣobha means there is some agitation, within the mind, of the body. There are so many symptoms. Kṛṣṇera caraṇa-prāptye upajāya lobha: "And the more you increase the symptoms and this emotion, the more you will be anxious to be a sincere lover of God, or Kṛṣṇa." Premāra sva-bhāve bhakta hāse, kānde, gāya: 'This is the nature of loving emotion of a devotee, that he sometimes laughs, sometimes dances, sometimes cries." Unmatta ha-iyā nāce, iti-uti dhāya: "And sometimes he dances like a madman and goes this side and that side. So these symptoms are good symptoms."

sveda, kampa, romāñcāśru, gadgada, vaivarṇya

unmāda, viṣāda, dhairya, garva, harṣa, dainya



Now these are some of the stages explained, and each item is very important. Sveda: when actually one comes to the perfectional stage of emotion, there is perspiration, perspiration from the body, sveda. Kampa: there is shaking of the body, like this. Yes. Shaking of the body. Romāñca: the hairs stands on the holes, romāñca. Gadgada: he fails to speak. He cannot express his words exactly. Vaivarṇya: there is sometimes paleness of the body. Unmāda: just like a madman. Viṣāda: he becomes morose, very sorry, viṣāda. Dhairya: and calm and quiet. Then garva: he becomes pride, sometimes just like a chivalrous man, pride, proud. Harṣa: ecstasy. And dainya: and humble, humbleness. So these are the symptoms of perfection. So sometimes they imitate. So imitation is no good. It will come. When you are in perfectional stage, these symptoms will automatically come.



eta bhāve premā bhaktagaṇere nācāya

*kṛṣṇera ānandāmṛta*-sāgare bhāsāya



"All these symptoms means that he is floating in the transcendental ocean of joy, of loving Kṛṣṇa." That is the actual experience of love. Just like you love somebody, when he comes, meets you, embrace you, oh, you have got some, a particular emotion, similarly, these emotions means that you are in the perfectional stage of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*bhāla haila, pāile tumi parama*-puruṣārtha

tomāra premete āmi hailāṅ kṛtārtha

[Cc. Ādi 7.91]



So His spiritual master said, "So it is very nice, my dear Caitanya. You have developed all these symptoms. So I am also obliged to You because I initiated You. Now You are so perfectional stage, in a perfectional stage, so I am thinking myself, also, proud, that I have got a disciple like You. Or You have been benefited by me." So His spiritual master said like that.



*nāca, gāo, bhakta*-saṅge kara saṅkīrtana

*kṛṣṇa*-nāma upadeśi' tāra' sarva-jana

[Cc. Ādi 7.92]



*Now here is another order. The first order is that "You chant." And when the disciple (is) in the perfectional stage, the spiritual master orders that "Yes, continue this chanting." Nāca, gāo, bhakta*-saṅge kara saṅkīrtana. Nāca, gāo, bhakta-saṅge. Here is the particular word, that "You chant and sing and dance in the societies of devotees, not otherwise." Bhakta-saṅge. This particular word is there. Because otherwise you'll not feel quite comfortable. Abhakta. Abhakta means those who are not devotees. They cannot participate with this chanting or dancing. Therefore it is particularly mentioned that bhakta-saṅge: "You chant and dance in the society of devotees." Nāca, gāo, bhakta-saṅge kara saṅkīrtana: "And Yourself enjoy this chanting and dancing, and at the same time," kṛṣṇa-nāma upadeśi' tāra' sarva-jana, "at the same time preach the Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy so that others may also be delivered. Don't be satisfied that You have attained the perfectional stage, so Your business is end. No. You have to distribute this sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the world so that others may take also advantage." Kṛṣṇa-nāma upadeśi. Upadeśi means "Instruct kṛṣṇa-nāma, about Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's fame, Kṛṣṇa's entourage, Kṛṣṇa's glories, Kṛṣṇa's form." There are so many things about Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa science is Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, principally, and there are many other supplementary books of knowledge about Kṛṣṇa. So this is also another duty of this line, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Āpani... There is another... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra: [Cc. Ādi 9.41] "Anyone..." He is ordering all Indians. Bhārata-bhūmite means all Indians. He does not say the Hindus or the Bengalis or these Punjabis. No. He says particularly, "Any person who has taken his birth in this land of Bhāratavarṣa," janma sārthaka kari, "you just perfect your life. Just perfect your life," and kara paropakāra, "and distribute this knowledge for benefit of all other people."



*So this injunction is received, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, that "First of all make your life perfect. Don't try to preach without becoming yourself perfect." The nonsense thing is going on in this world that so*-called preachers, they have not perfected their life, but they have become preachers. They have not already perfected their life, and they have become preacher. Therefore they are bringing so many nonsense things and misleading persons, Vedāntists and Vedānta Society, yogis, this or that. But they are not themselves perfect. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Before becoming preacher, before endeavoring yourself to do good to others, you just perfect yourself." "Physician, heal thyself." Physician, you are yourself diseased. How you can become a physician? People will, at once, will be detracted, "Oh, this doctor, this medical man, he's suffering from fever, and he's treating my fever." So there will be no, I mean to say, effect. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, or His spiritual master says, that kṛṣṇa-nāma upadeśi' tāra' sarva-jana: "First of all You have perfected Yourself by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have come to the perfectional stage. Now You have got the symptoms of emotion. Now You can preach Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare." Yes.

eta bali' eka śloka śikhāila more

*bhāgavatera sāra ei*-bale vāre vāre



*Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My spiritual master, after instructing Me in this way, he has taught Me one very nice verse from the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata." What is that?



*evaṁ vrataḥ sva*-priya-nāma-kīrtyā

*jātānurāgo druta*-citta uccaiḥ

hasaty atho roditi rauti gāyaty

*unmādavan nṛtyati loka*-bāhyaḥ



*When one becomes actually devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and takes pleasure by chanting his object of love, druta*-citta uccaiḥ, his mind becomes perturbed by such chanting. And then hasaty, hasaty, he laughs; atho roditi, sometimes cries, roditi; and rauti, and, by seeing him, others also cry; roditi, rauti; gāyati, and chants very loudly; unmādavan nṛtyati, and dances like a madman, nṛtyati; *loka*-bāhyaḥ, and he doesn't care that "Somebody is looking upon me just like I am madman." He doesn't care for them. This is the perfectional stage of chanting.



ei tāṅra vākye āmi dṛḍha viśvāsa dhari'

*nirantara kṛṣṇa*-nāma saṅkīrtana kari



Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu concludes... Because you might always remember that He is speaking to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. So He said that "With full faith in the words of My spiritual master, I chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, and I have no other business." Nirantara kari. Because He was... He raised the question of Vedānta, studying Vedānta, so He is answering, "This is My position. I am just following the instruction of My spiritual master. In the beginning, he taught Me like this. He instructed Me like this. Then I followed. I have developed these symptoms. Then again I approached My spiritual master. He confirmed the same thing. Therefore My business is to follow his instruction, and therefore I am always chanting and dancing."



Thank you very much. (end)



740313CC.VRN

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.91-2

-

Vṛndāvana, March 13, 1974



*Prabhupāda: ...Māyāvādī sannyāsīs why He was not engaged in reading Vedānta*-sūtra, and why He was indulging in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that in this age, Kali-yuga, Vedānta-sūtra, to study Vedānta-sūtra and to understand the purport of Vedānta-sūtra, is very difficult. It requires a very good Sanskrit scholarship. Although it is not very difficult to understand if it is taken by the paramparā system, but because people try to understand Vedānta-sūtra by scholastic demeanor (?), therefore it becomes difficult. It was discussed by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. He was a very learned scholar. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya... (aside, about fan:) Make little curved. (someone turns fan off)



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want...? Prabhupāda wants the fan down more, on him.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To keep the flies off. (fan noise resumes)



Prabhupāda: Not so much. That's all.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Touching his body.



*Prabhupāda: So the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs everywhere, they are very proud of their Sanskrit education. Sometimes people ask our students whether you have learned Sanskrit. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness understanding does not depend on Sanskrit scholarship. That is the teaching of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said to the Māyāvādī sannyāsī Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī that "My Guru Mahārāja studied Me as a great fool." Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, presenting Himself. He was a learned scholar, undoubtedly, very learned scholar. In His youthful age He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. This paṇḍita title, especially the brāhmaṇas are given this paṇḍita title. But He was specifically known as Paṇḍita, Nimāi Paṇḍita, very good scholar. And He defeated the Keśava Kashmiri, a great, renowned scholar of Kashmir. The Kashmir country is mentioned in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also. It is a very old country. And there were many learned scholars. And one scholar came to Navadvīpa to defeat the paṇḍitas, the learned scholars of Navadvīpa, but he was defeated by a young boy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Nimāi Paṇḍita was at that time only sixteen years old. But He defeated only in composition, Sanskrit composition. The Sanskrit composition, there is rules and regulations. So you know the story. He pointed out many defects in the verses composed by the Keśava Kashmiri. So he was defeated.



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a great scholar. There is no doubt of it. But in spite of His becoming a great scholar, He is presenting Himself as a great fool. He says, "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a great..." Even one is very great scholar, he has to abide by the decision of his spiritual master. Even one is very great scholar, and if his spiritual master says that "You are a great fool," he should accept it. This is called full surrender. For example, I'll give you a practical... My Guru Mahārāja was very great scholar, and his Guru Mahārāja, from literary point of view, he could not even sign his name, Gaura*-kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja. And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura asked Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura to accept Gaura-kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja as his, as his spiritual master, that "You go and take your initiation from Gaura-kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja." So he thought that "I am a great scholar, and I am son of a magistrate, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and great Vaiṣṇava. He'll be very much pleased to accept me." Of course, he was very much pleased. But in the beginning he refused. He refused. Because... Of course, that is only show. He was not proud. Just to teach us. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī explained that "I was little proud. So I was thrice refused by Guru Mahārāja," although he was the only disciple. So the scholarship is not a qualification of becoming devotee. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Scholarship may help, but it is not necessary. Real necessary is that one should be humble and meek and follow the instruction of the spiritual master. This is real qualification.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



Because bhakti does not depend on any material qualification. Bhakti is different subject matter. Aprakṛta. Adhokṣaja. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6].



*So that is being taught, that... Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained His position to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī that "My Guru Mahārāja, studying My character, he found Me a great fool. Therefore he advised Me to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra." The idea is that by studying Vedānta-sūtra, by becoming a very great scholar, to achieve transcendental position of devotional service is very, very difficult nowadays. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. But whatever you may be, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra offenselessly, then everything is achieved, without any difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ihā haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomāra. Sarva-siddhi. Siddhi means perfection. Siddhi means perfection. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised... That is His propaganda. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-māha-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ sarvātmanaṁ paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So His Guru Mahārāja advised Him... He presented Himself like that to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. Presenting Himself as fool means that the general mass of people, they are not fit for becoming very great Sanskrit scholar or very good philosopher or student of Vedānta philo... That is not possible in this age, in Kali-yuga. Mass of people, they are almost śūdra. Śūdra-sambhava. Scholarship, to study Sanskrit, to study Vedas, Purāṇas, they are meant for the brāhmaṇas. Not even for the kṣatriyas, or what to speak of vaiśya. Vaiśya, śūdra and woman, they have been classified in the Bhagavad-gītā as less intelligent. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdras te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. But Kṛṣṇa is so merciful. If you take the shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, whatever you may be... You may be scholar or not scholar. You may be rich or poor; *women, śūdra, vaiśya, or pāpa*-yoni. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. In Bhāgavata also, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbha yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā [SB 2.4.18]. Pāpā means born in low-grade family. They are called pāpā. Śuddhyanti: they become purified. This is the verdict of the śāstras, that bhagavad-bhakti does not depend on any kind of material qualification. Simply you have to become very sincere and serious. That is the only price.

*Rūpa Gosvāmī also recommended like that. Tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam. Rūpa Gosvāmī advised, kṛṣṇa*-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate. He advises that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if it is available, you purchase. You purchase anywhere it is available." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advice, that one should be eager to purchase this Kṛṣṇa consciousness at any price. Generally, we think price means some, in terms of money, monetary transaction, say, hundred pounds or two hundred pounds or millions pounds, billion pounds, like that. The price is different. Here Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "You price..., you purchase at any price." But what is that price? Tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam. Laulyam, eagerness. That is price. That is the only qualification. You must be very, very eager to see the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in this very life. You must be very eager to talk with Kṛṣṇa in this very life. But not to become sahajiyā. By service. Kṛṣṇa talks with the devotee, but not with nondevotee. He says in the Bhagavad-gītā, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Only persons who are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. He has no other business. Satata. Satata means twenty-four hours. He has no other business. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatām. And the bhajatām. Bhajatām means in service. You must find out always some opportunity how to give, render service to Kṛṣṇa. That is the qualification. It doesn't matter what you are. You may be this or that. It doesn't matter. But this eagerness for service can be acquired by anyone simply by sincerity. That is the price. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Rūpa Gosvāmī says, tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam. "So that I, I have got too much eagerness." But no. Immediately Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī warns, na janma-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtibhir labhyate. This eagerness to achieve Kṛṣṇa's mercy, to approach the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in this life, determination, "I shall do anything. I shall sacrifice anything," this kind of determination is not very easily obtained. Na janma-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtibhiḥ. Sukṛti means pious activities. Without being pious, nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not so cheap. You may show yourself that you have become a great sannyāsī or Vaiṣṇava or whatever it may be, but so long you'll be engaged in sinful activities, there is no question of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That sinful activities means illicit sex and intoxication, gambling, and meat-eating. These are the pillars of sinful activities. So one must be purified. Janma-koṭibhiḥ. These... To purify oneself from the resultant action of sinful activities, it takes many, many births. Janma-koṭibhiḥ sukṛti. By counteracting the sinful activities, to engage oneself only in pious activities. So pious activities means brahmacarya... Śamo damo titikṣa. The brahminical qualifications. But it is very difficult nowadays to practice. Tyāgena śamena damena vā.

Gurukṛpa: Tapasya... Tapasya brahmacārī...



*Prabhupāda: Ah! Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa tyāgena śamena damena... [SB 6.1.13]. These are the process of pious activities. But who is going? It is very difficult. Therefore this nāma*-saṅkīrtana, if we offenselessly perform nāma-saṅkīrtana, everything is done.



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu presented Himself as a fool number one before His Guru Mahārāja. He advised that "It will be difficult for You to study Vedānta*-sūtra or practice tapasya, brahmacarya, śama, dama, titikṣa, tyāgena, śamena, damena, niyamena, yamena... [Bg. 18.42]" It is possible for a human being, but in this Kali-yuga all these functions, to do is difficult. Therefore this process is recommended, vāsudeva-parāyaṇa, bhakti-yogena. Nīhāraḥ. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Just like the, there is mist, fog, and as soon as the sun rises there, all fog is immediately disseminated. Otherwise, it requires so much arrangement. Your railway train cannot move. The ships in the sea, they cannot move. It is very difficult position. Similarly, our sinful activities has covered our heart just like a fog. We cannot see anything. But by bhakti-yoga, it can be immediately dissipated. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was thus advised by His spiritual master to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He got perfection. That was explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

So His spiritual master congratulated Him like this, that,

*bhāla haila, pāile tumi parama*-puruṣārtha

tomāra premete āmi hailāṅ kṛtārtha

[Cc. Ādi 7.91]



*When a disciple becomes perfect in spiritual advancement, the spiritual master feels very, very happy, that "I am a nonsense, but this boy, he has followed my instruction and he has achieved the success. That is my success." This is the spiritual master's ambition. Just like a father. This is the relationship. Just like... Nobody wants to see anybody more advanced than himself. That is the nature. Matsarata. If anybody becomes advanced in any subject matter, then I become envious upon him. But the spiritual master or the father, he does not become envious. He feels himself very, very happy, that "This boy has advanced more than me." This is spiritual master's position. So Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu expresses, He expresses(?) that "By..., when I chant and dance and cry in ecstasy, so My spiritual master thanks Me this way: bhāla haila, 'It is very, very good.' " Pāile tumi parama*-puruṣārtha: " 'Now You have achieved the highest success in life.' " Tomāra premete: " 'Because You have advanced so much, āmi hailāṅ kṛtārtha, I am feeling so much obliged.' " This is the position.



*Then he encourages, nāca, gāo, bhakta*-saṅge kara saṅkīrtana: "Now go on. You have achieved so much success. Now again You go on." Nāca: "You dance." Gāo: "You sing and chant," bhakta-saṅge, "in the society of devotees." Not to make a profession, but bhakta-saṅge. This is the real platform of achieving success in spiritual life. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura also says that

*tāñdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa

janame janame mora ei abhilāṣa



*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that "Birth after birth." Because a devotee, he does not aspire after going back to home, back to Godhead. No. Any place, it doesn't matter. He wants to simply glorify the Supreme Lord. That is his business. It is not the business of the bhakta that he is chanting and dancing and executing devotional service for going to Vaikuṇṭha or Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. "If He likes, He'll take me." Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also: icchā yadi tora. Janmāobi yadi more icchā yadi tora, bhakta*-gṛhete janma ha-u pa mora. The, a devotee only prays that... He does not request Kṛṣṇa that "Please take me back to Vaikuṇṭha or Goloka Vṛndāvana." No. "If You think that I must take birth again, that's all right. But only, only my request is that give me birth in the house of a devotee. That's all. So that I may not forget You." This is the only prayer of the devotee. Because... Just like this child. She has taken birth having Vaiṣṇava father and mother. So she must have been a Vaiṣṇavī or a Vaiṣṇava in her previous life. Because this is an opportunity from the... All our children, those who are born of a Vaiṣṇava father, mother, they are very, very fortunate. From the very beginning of life, they are hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. They are associating with Vaiṣṇava, chanting, dancing. Imitation or fact, it doesn't matter. So they are very, very fortunate children. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ-sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. So they are not ordinary children. They are... These children, they're always hankering after associating with devotees, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, coming to us. So they are not ordinary children. The bhakti-saṅge vāsa. This is the very good opportunity, bhakta-saṅge vāsa.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society is a bhakta-saṅga, is a society of devotees. Never try to go away. Never try to go away. Discrepancies there may be. You should adjust. And this chanting and dancing amongst, within the society of devotees, has got great advantage, great value. Here it is confirmed*-and all the Vaiṣṇavas have confirmed-

*tāñdera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa

janame janame mora ei abhilāṣa



*Janame janame mora means he doesn't want to go back. That is not his desire. "When Kṛṣṇa will desire, Kṛṣṇa will allow me. That is different thing. Otherwise, let me go on in this way, life in the society of devotees and chanting and dancing is my business." This is required. Not anything else. Anything else, anything desiring, that is anyābhilāṣa. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. A devotee should not desire anything except this, that "Let me live with the society of devotees and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra." This is our life.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





670213CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.106-107

-

San Francisco, February 13, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*...īśvara*-vacana

*vyāsa*-rūpe kaila yāhā śrī-nārāyaṇa

[Cc. Ādi 7.106]



bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsā, karaṇāpāṭava

īśvarera vākye nāhi doṣa ei saba

[Cc. Ādi 7.107]



*We have been discussing this point, that īśvara*-vacana, what is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no flaw. In our statement, in our writing, because we are conditioned, therefore we have got four kinds of flaws. We are subjected to commit mistakes, we are sometimes illusioned, and sometimes we try to cheat, and always our senses are imperfect. So therefore whatever knowledge I will present or I will tell you, that is all imperfect. You cannot expect perfect knowledge from imperfect person. Just like a medical man, a doctor, when he's sick, he puts himself under the care of another medical man. He does not take care of himself because he's at that time imperfect physician. Because he's diseased, therefore he's imperfect, although he's a physician. But in his diseased condition, he does not take charge of himself. He puts himself in the charge of another medical man. This is the system.



*So when rascals and fools think in their imperfect stage as perfect, the whole anomalies of this world begins. The rascals and fools, they do not think themselves that "I am rascal and fool." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu presents Himself before His spiritual master... Not He presented*-His spiritual master found Him, that "You are fool number one." So we should be always prepared to admit our imperfection. But such imperfection is not in, on the īśvara. Īśvara means "controller." If the controller is imperfect... Suppose a man is in charge, director of such and such a department, education department, and if he's a fool, then what is the use of keeping such man? Therefore īśvara, those who are controllers, they have no such flaw. That is to be admitted first. They are flawless. And what to speak of the Parameśvara. There are two kinds of īśvara. Īśvara, you can, you are also īśvara, but you are now in imperfect stage. When you become perfect, you become īśvara, controller. For example, just like, at the present conditioned stage, we are all controlled by the senses. So when you at least become the controller of the senses, then you become īśvara. Now we are controlled by the senses, but when you become actually controller of the senses, then you become īśvara. Then there will be less mistake, less illusion, less cheating, and perfection.

*The Lord, God... God is out of all these imperfections. And what are the scriptures? The scriptures are the words of God. In every scripture, you'll find, "God said." In Bible it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation.' " So therefore why God..., we are bringing God for creation? Because that will be perfect. If God said "Let there be creation," that creation will be perfect. Don't you see how this creation is perfect? We require water, so much, a large quantity. So God has created this earth in such a way that three-fourths of the earth is covered with water. And the water is salty. Why? The water is reserved. Unless it is salty, it will decompose. And how the water is distributed? Oh, there is sun. Sun evaporates the water, and that means salt is made minus and the pure water is evaporated on the sky, and that is distributed all over the world and it is kept on the highest summit of the mountain so that it can come down by gravitation throughout the whole year through the rivers, channel, and you can get water. Now see-nature study-how it is perfectly made. Can you do that? No. It is not possible. When there is scarcity of water, you have to see to the sky. You have no power. Your science cannot acquire when there is scarcity. There is no rain*-you cannot create rain. You have to wait. So therefore everything made by the Lord, that is perfect. There is no question of imperfection.

Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate, pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate [Īśo Invocation]. In the Vedic language, it is said that the Supreme Lord is full and perfect. Therefore whatever He creates, it is also perfect and full. Actually, there is no scarcity in this material world. We have created scarcity by our mismanagement, by our mismanagement. Actually the whole world, the whole earthly planet belongs to the, all the living entities there. They are meant for them. God has created vegetables for the animals, and He has created fruits, flowers, grains, and you take milk from the animals. All live peacefully. But we nonsense, rascals, we have created all these distinctions: "Oh, this is American," "This is Indian," "This is Chinese," "This is Russian," "I am this," "I am that," "Oh, I am Christian," "I am Hindu." Why? All of you, you are God's servant, dependent on God. The leader is God. Just think in that way; the whole thing becomes perfect. Everything is there, perfect. The arrangement, nature's arrangement is such that you eat nicely, whatever your bodily wants are there, there is sufficient supply. You take, eat nicely, and live peacefully, and utilize the words of God. There are Bible. There are, I mean to say, Koran. There is *Vedas*. And try to understand God and make your life perfect and go back to Godhead. This is the whole policy.

*So there is no flaw in the arrangement of God. That is to be understood first of all. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that Vedānta, Vedānta is compiled by God Himself. That we have explained yesterday. Lord Kṛṣṇa also says that vedānta vid vedānta kṛd ca aham: "I am the compiler of Vedānta and I am the knower of Vedānta." If God, if Kṛṣṇa is not knower of Vedānta, then how He can compile Vedānta? Vedānta means "the last word in knowledge." We are, everyone, seeking knowledge, and Vedānta means the last word of knowledge. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all establishes that in the Vedānta*-sūtra you cannot find any flaw; *therefore you have no right to interpret. Because you are nonsense rascal, so how you can touch and comment on the sūtras which is compiled by God, the Supreme Perfect? But we do not admit that "I am rascal." I think that I am very much learned, I have no flaw, I am perfect. So these are foolishness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's point is this, that why the foolish persons go to interpret and comment on Vedānta, which is perfect itself? Do you require to see the sun with this light? How it is possible? The sun is itself illuminated so nicely that you don't require any other light to see sun. If I say, "My dear boy, please come with me and take this light. I'll show you sun in the sky," oh, you'll think, "Oh, Swamijī is a nonsense. What is the use of this light? What is the use of this light?" Similarly, what knowledge you have got that you have to..., you want to comment on the Vedānta*-sūtra? It is already illuminated. In the beginning: athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now you have got this human form of life. Now you have got full consciousness. You are not like animal. We are not like dogs and cats. Now you try to understand what you are, Brahman, what is spirit. Is it not your duty? You should simply be satisfied like animals, eating, drinking and mating and begetting children, and sometimes death is come and gone? Do you think that is your perfection of life? No. The Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for spiritual realization. It is not meant for cats' and dogs' life, sense gratification. They are doing, the hogs are doing sense gratification all day, eating, and as soon as there is female, oh, there is sex. Do you think this is human life? No. Vedānta says it is not human life. The human life is to understand what is spirit, what is the background of this manifestation, janma. So at once the Vedānta-sūtra replies, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. "Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, is that who is the background of all this manifestation."

*Now, if Brahman is background of this manifestation, so we are all living entities and we are intelligent. We know how to do things very nicely. We have got intelligence. And do you think from whom we have emanated, He has no intelligence? He has no sense? He is impersonal? What is this nonsense? I am born of my father. Suppose I have not seen. Just after my birth, my father died. So, in my childhood or even when my mother was pregnant, my father died. So I did not see my father. There are so many cases. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. His father died while he was in the womb of his mother. Now he has not seen his father. Does this mean that his father is impersonal? Any common man (can) understand, "I have got this body from my father, and I am so intelligent. I can do things nicely. So naturally my father is a person. How he can become imperson?" although I have not seen it. So these require, janmādy asya yataḥ... [SB 1.1.1]. Vedānta*-sūtra says that "from whom everything is emanated." So He's not imperson. Therefore Bhāgavata explains this verse, this sūtra, very nicely. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. That Supreme Person, God, is cognizant. He's sentient, not imperson, because He knows everything. Because everything is... Just like your father knows almost everything of you because he has created you. This is crude example. But He's perfect. We fathers, we are not perfect. But He's perfect. Therefore, because He's perfect, He knows everything in the nook and corner of this creation. He knows everything. And Bhāgavata says abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means He knows. How He knows? Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. His knowing process is different. And we simply apply our nonsense, I mean to say, ideas to God. Now here, Vedas, Vedas says now this sun is the eye of God. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakalā-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. This sun, which is so illuminating and so powerful, it is the eye of God. Now how we can hide yourself from the eyes of God? The sunshine is within your room. You are thinking that "I am alone in this room. Nobody can see. Let us do all nonsense." Oh, the sunshine is there. How can you hide yourself? Therefore He's perfect. He can see what... Besides that, that is outside looking. Inside-īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He's sitting within you. So how can you hide yourself? This is not possible. There is no flaw. His seeing, His working, His writing, His instructing-everything is perfect. First of all, you have to understand this.

*And the Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, any religion, any religion, or religious principle, sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam, it is compiled and made by the Supreme Lord. Therefore in every scripture, you'll find the beginning is God. Beginning is God. So just like the state laws, the state laws are made by the state administrators. So how can you make change? You cannot make change. The state law is that you must go to the right. Can you make any change? "No, I shall go to the left." Oh, at once you'll be arrested. If you cannot change the laws of your state, how you can change the laws of God? That means the more you violate the laws of God, the more you become sinful. This is called sin. As you violate the laws of the state and become a criminal, similarly, as you violate the laws of God, you become sinful. You become sinful. This is the definition on sin and piety. If you follow the rules of God, then you are pious. Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that "Sex intercourse for begetting children is I am." That means this is pious. But if sex intercourse for sense gratification, that is sin. That is sin. Now fools may inquire, "Oh, what is the difference between married sex life and non-married sex life?" That is the fool's question. But if we follow the rules, the rule is that like that, you require sex life, so you just become gentleman: you marry. You get yourself married and peacefully live. That is nice. That is righteous. So why should you not accept? Similarly, there are so many things. In everything, there is God's law. And that is perfect. That is perfect. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means always to be conscious, in contact with God. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not an artificial thing, that we have manufactured some ideas and advertising that we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means just as an obedient citizen of the state, he's always conscious of the state's supremacy, similarly, a person who is always conscious of the supremacy of God, or Kṛṣṇa, he is called Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's called Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if we say that "Why should we become Kṛṣṇa conscious?" if you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you become criminal. You become sinful. You have to suffer. The laws of nature is so strong that it will not let you go without suffering. As the state laws are so stringent that if you commit some criminal thing... Simply by keeping marijuana and LSD you are still immediately arrested. You see. So what so speak of using them. (laughs) You see. So this is to be known. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that we should not violate. And whatever, everything is there, whatever is spoken... Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants to stress on this point, that nobody can interpret that, in the, either in Bible or Vedānta*-sūtra or Koran. That is the principle. You cannot make any change. If you do not understand, then you go to the right person.

*Who is the right person? That right person who is receiving the knowledge by the paramparā system. Not the right person like Dr. Radhakrishnan, because he's very much educated and world-famous, oh, a philosopher, therefore he's the right person. No. He's not the right person. The right person is... He may be a illiterate person, but if he follows the guru-paramparā, the disciplic succession, he's the right person. He's the right person. He may be illiterate. He may not know. Just like Lord Caitanya confirmed that brāhmaṇa, he was illiterate, but he was studying Bhagavad-gītā, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes." He embraced him. "My dear brāhmaṇa, you are really understanding Bhagavad-gītā." Because he knows the central point of Bhagavad-gītā. The central point. I have several times recited this narration, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was traveling in South India, He saw that one brāhmaṇa was reading Bhagavad-gītā, and his neighbors, they knew it that "This brāhmaṇa is illiterate and he does not know even what is ABCD, and still he's reading Bhagavad-gītā." So they were joking, sometimes criticizing him. The brāhmaṇa, of course, he was reading as far as possible. What possible? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw the fun and approached the brāhmaṇa, "Oh, My dear brāhmaṇa, what you are reading?" He understood that "Here is a sincere person. He's not joking me. He's simply inquiring." So he said, "My dear Sir, I am illiterate. I do not know even the alphabets. But my Guru Mahārāja asked me to read every day eighteen chapters of Bhagavad-gītā. So what can I do? I have taken this Bhagavad-gītā in pursuance of my spiritual master. I am simply seeing the cover and trying to understand what is there." Now he's illiterate. By seeing the cover, he's trying to understand Bhagavad-gītā by the order of his spiritual master. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Because my spiritual master has ordered me to read Bhagavad-gītā*-I know I'm illiterate, I cannot read-oḥ, let me see what it is." Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "Well, you are illiterate, but I see that with feeling you are crying." "Yes, Sir, I am crying." "Why?" "Now, soon as I take this book, the picture of Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna comes before me. I see that Kṛṣṇa is driving the chariot and Arjuna is hearing, and I simply appreciate, 'Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has become his chariot driver of His devotee.' Therefore I am crying. Oh, He's so kind." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "You are reading Bhagavad-gītā." At once He embraced him. This is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa-minus Bhagavad-gītā commentation, all rascaldom. Be careful of these, all these fools and rascals. That is not Bhagavad-gītā. Maybe Dr. Radhakrishnan, Swami Nikhilananda... All rascals because they have made minus Kṛṣṇa. They want to interpret. Similarly, they interpret Vedānta and all this minus God, minus God. So Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu warns you that "Don't go to such rascals." There is no mistake. Try to understand Bhagavad-gītā or Vedānta-sūtra or any scripture as it is. Don't try to change it.

Thank you very much. (end)



670215CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.107-109

-

San Francisco, February 15, 1967



*Prabhupāda: ...Vedic literature, it is scriptures. It is compiled by the Lord Himself. Religion means the regulation of the Supreme Lord. That's all. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like for proper execution of this material world there are certain rules and regulations of the king, of the state, similarly, to execute properly the supreme will of the Supreme Lord there are certain rules and regulations. That is called religion. This is the meaning of religion. Religion does not mean that "My religion says this. Your religion says this. Your religion says this." Religion means whether you are properly executing the will of the Supreme. That's all. This is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. The nonsense rascals, they cannot manufacture religion. Religion cannot be... Just like ordinary citizens, they cannot make laws for the state. Suppose if you make a law. Who will care for your law? Don't take advantage of the innocent people and make your own religion and make a group and try to exploit them. This is all nonsense. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the regulation of the Supreme. So we have to know. That is religion. So any religion which is directing to obey the Supreme Lord, that is bona fide. And anything minus or "Not to Kṛṣṇa but to me," this is a nonsense rascaldom. You see. So before studying Vedānta, we should understand this fact. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is therefore stressing on this point, that there is no cheating, there is no mistake, there is no illusion, there is no imperfectness. Then we can make progress. If we are doubtful: "Oh, Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by some Kṛṣṇa, somebody. He was learned man, philosopher. So I can point out my own point..." No. Not like that.



So,

*upaniṣat*-sahita sūtra kahe yei tattva

*mukhya*-vṛttye sei artha parama mahattva



*This is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that all the Upaniṣads, all the Vedic literature, Vedānta*-sūtra, they, they are composed in that way. Therefore mukhya-vṛttye sei artha parama mahattva: "Therefore, if you take directly the meaning, that is the superexcellence of your understanding." Directly. Don't try to foolishly interpret. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the first verse is,



*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*"My dear Sañjaya, my sons, māmakāḥ, my sons and Pāṇḍava, the sons of my younger brother, Pāṇḍu, they assembled in the battlefield which is also a pilgrimage. Then what did they do?" This is the simple... But the nonsense rascals, they are eschewing some meaning, "Oh, kuru*-kṣetra means 'body,' and dharma-kṣetra means this and this... Pāṇḍava means 'the five senses.' " So many nonsensical... Even Gandhi has done this. What Gandhi? Gandhi's nothing. You see? So they are, these rascals are doing and misleading persons. I've recently written one written to Dr. Radhakrishnan that "You are going to retire. Now join this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. You have written your Bhagavad-gītā, and you don't believe Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Lord, God. Therefore by reading your Bhagavad-gītā people have become godless. So you better rectify your mistake. Now join this." I've written state letter to Dr. Radhakrishnan. "So if you want to, I mean to say, compensate the greatest sin you have committed in your Bhagavad-gītā, then you join this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement and rectify yourself." "Not to Kṛṣṇa."



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not approve this. Kṛṣṇa says,

*man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto

*mad*-yājī māṁ namaskuru

mam evaiṣyasi

kaunteya asaṁśayaḥ

[Bg. 18.65]



*"O My dear Arjuna, you just surrender unto Me. You worship Me. You offer your obeisances unto Me. You always think of Me." This is straight. The straight meaning, "Me," Kṛṣṇa is saying. Therefore we should offer our respect to Kṛṣṇa. We should worship Kṛṣṇa. We should think of Kṛṣṇa. We shall chant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the straight meaning. But the commentator says, "Oh, not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. "Not to Kṛṣṇa." So this nonsensical commentation is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, mukhya*-vṛttye. Mukhya-vṛttye, directly, as you understand it. If I say, "My dear such and such, give me a glass of water," now you interpret, "Oh, Swamijī wants water. Oh, he has taken water. Let me supply this or that, interpretation," what is the use of interpreting? I'm asking for water. Give me water. Call a spade a spade. This should be the... This should be the understanding of Vedānta. Because all foolish nonsense, they are interpreting... "Such and such person's commentation of Vedānta-sūtra." Because they were trying to manifest and expose their thinking power, that "I think that this should be like this." What nonsense you are? What you can think? You think as it is. This is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Don't think otherwise. As it is. In the Upaniṣads, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: "Everything belongs to God." Believe it as belongs to God. Don't interpret. Then you'll understand Vedas. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat: [Īśo mantra 1] "Anything, any minute thing in this material world, everything belongs to that Supreme Lord." Who can deny it? Why do you interpret? Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: "So you enjoy as He orders you."



*You are not forbidden to enjoy. Just like we say that illicit sex relation not ordered, not allowed. You should take it because it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi aham: "The sex desire which is sanctioned by religion, that is I am." That is Kṛṣṇa. Sex desire to fulfill*-it does not mean that like cat, we are free. What is this freedom? That freedom has cats and dogs. They are so free that on the road they have sexual intercourse. You have not so much freedom. You have to find out a parlor, er, apartment. So do you want that is freedom? This is not freedom. This is, I mean to say, going to hell. This is not freedom. Therefore Vedic literatures enjoins that if you want sex life, then you become householder. You marry a nice girl, and then you have got very good responsibility. This, this concession, sex life, is allowed so that you have to serve the all others. That is the responsibility. Now there are four divisions of social order-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. The brahmacārī does not, I mean to say, earn anything. They depend on the society. Sannyāsī-depend on the society. Vānaprastha-depend on the society. Only the householder who is living with wife and children, he has got the whole responsibility to provide these brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. You see. In India still, if a brahmacārī, if a sannyāsī goes to a householder, immediately offers something. So they do not want more, but they want little for their maintenance of this body and soul together. It is the duty of the householder. So unless one becomes responsible householder, how he'll execute his responsibility? If he thinks, "Oh, what is the use of keeping a cow when the milk is available in the market? Oh, sex life is so cheap. Why shall I take the responsibility of marrying?" This is going on. This is going on. Just like cats and dogs. So the cats and dogs cannot understand Vedānta philosophy. First condition. It is not meant for the cats and dogs. It is meant for human beings. So we should be human being first of all. Then we shall try to understand... Our life is so wretched that it is less than cats and dogs, and we try to understand Vedānta philosophy. It is not possible.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says mukhya*-vṛttye, direct meaning, as it is said. That is beauty of understanding. Janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The supreme source from which everything emanating, that is Brahman." What is the interpretation? There is no interpretation. Supreme... There must be some supreme source. That is quite philosophical and logical, that I have my... This bodily existence has a source, my father. My father has a source, his father. His father... Go on. There must be one supreme source. That is God. Simple to understand. Is it very difficult to understand? The supreme cause, He is God. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is described in Brahma-saṁhitā, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. Kāraṇa means "cause," and sarva means "all." There are cause, cause, cause and effect, cause and effect, cause and eff... When you reach to the supreme cause, He's Kṛṣṇa. He is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa confirms it in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Have you got Bhagavad-gītā?

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante mām..

[Bg. 10.8].



In the Tenth Chapter you'll find this word, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. So things should be accepted as they are. (aside:) Have you got it?



Satsvarūpa: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Read it.



Satsvarūpa: "I am the origin of all. From Me all proceeds. Knowing this, the wise worship Me, endowed with conviction."



Prabhupāda: You see. He's the origin of everything. Now, if somebody says, "Oh, what's the commentation there?" What is that commentation? Is there any commentation or simply translation?



Satsvarūpa: Shall I read that?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Satsvarūpa: Read the commentation?



Prabhupāda: No, that particular verse, ahaṁ sarvasya... Is there any commentation?



Satsvarūpa: Yes, there is.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Satsvarūpa: "The teacher speaks now as the Lord. As..."



*Prabhupāda: "Teacher." Still, he'll not say "Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa*-phobia. (laughter) You see? He's always thinking, "If I say 'Kṛṣṇa,' oh, then I'll be in trouble." This is the demonic tendency, and that is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. The rascals and the lowest of the mankind, narādhama, and the asses and the, I mean, the nonsense-mūḍha-means ass, simply work for others. He has no self-interest. Ass. So mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ. "A person who is as rascal as an ass," mūḍhāḥ, na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtina, "and always engaged in sinful activities, and the lowest of the mankind and demon, he does not," I mean to say, "surrender unto Me, accept Me." Oh, there are many educated persons... Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan, he also says, he also, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." Then what about his education? Oh, that is also replied, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "Oh, he's educated-so-called. The māyā has plundered his all knowledge." That means although... He's an educated fool. There are educated rascals. They have got some university degrees, but actually they are rascal, less than an ass. So that is also described: māyayā apahṛta-jñānā. They have acquired some knowledge undoubtedly, but the essence of the knowledge is taken away by māyā. Essence of the knowledge. Just like I give you milk, but I churn it. I take the butter out, and I give you milk. It is just like that. If milk is administered, taking out the butter, that is also a cheating, because milk means to take fat. Fat we require. For our proper maintenance of the body, we require fat. So milk-drinking means eating fat. So if the fat is already taken away, what is this milk?



*So similarly, knowledge means to, athāto brahma jijñāsā, to understand Brahman. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the origin of everything, and everything emanates from Me." Iti matvā bhajante mām, budhā. Budhā means one who is in the topmost platform of knowledge. That is called budhā. Therefore Lord Buddha is called Buddha. Budhā means one who is in the topmost platform of knowledge. He's called budhā. Budh*-dhātu. Budh-dhātu means to know, to understand, or to have knowledge. So budhā. Budhā means one who is actually buddha, or budhā, he worships Kṛṣṇa because he knows perfectly well that He is the origin of everything. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*There are so many īśvaras, controller, but Parameśvara, or the Supreme Lord, supreme controller, is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. People may misunderstand, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, we have seen Him. He's a historical person. How He can be the supreme controller? He's just like a man. He's a man like us." No. He's sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. He's not like a man like you. His form is spiritual, blissful, eternal. "How it is eternal? We have known that He is born." That Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: [Bg. 4.9] "How I am born, what are My activities, if anyone knows..." Then what he becomes? Oh, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar: "He becomes immediately liberated."



*So He's not so easy to understand. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is born in Mathurā. His father is Vasudeva. Oh, He..." No. He's unborn. He's unborn, but I am seeing that He's born. Just like sun is unborn. I am seeing that at five o'clock sun is born in the eastern side of New York City. This is my foolishness. Sun is never born. He's always there. It is my imperfectness that I am seeing that sun is born this hour. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is never born. Kṛṣṇa is just like sun. So as they are, if we want to understand... Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception," avāṅ manasā gocaraḥ, "beyond your expression, beyond your knowledge, don't apply your so*-called argument and reason." That is Vedānta study. If, if you do not understand, put question to your spiritual master, try to understand, but as a matter of fact, you should know, "What is stated here, that is all right. It is due to my imperfectness of knowledge I cannot just now understand it. Let me ask my spiritual master and let me understand it properly." But a thing as it is, that is all right. We must take it. Mukhya-vṛttye. Mukhya means "as it is." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. What commentation you can give? If the Vedas says, Īśopaniṣad, that "Everything belongs to God," how can you deny it? What is your argument? What is your...? You cannot deny it. Similarly, all these Vedic sūtras, Upaniṣad, Vedānta, anything should be understood...

*gauna*-vṛttye yebā bhāṣya karila ācārya

tāhāra śravaṇe nāśa haya sarva kārya



*Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is directly challenging Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī belonged to the Śaṅkara*-sampradāya, Śaṅkara school of thought. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is directly challenging that gauna-vṛttye yebā bhāṣya karila ācārya. Ācārya means Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya has made a commentary which is called Śārīraka-bhāṣya of Vedānta-sūtra. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this Śārīraka-bhāṣya, gauna-vṛttye, indirectly... Just like we are accustomed to do: "I think the meaning should be like this," grammatical or this way or that way, jugglery of words. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu directly accuses Śaṅkarācārya that the commentary which he has made indirectly, if we read that commentary or if we hear that commentary, then tāhāra śravaṇe nāśa haya sarva kārya, then anyone who is hearing or trying to understand the Śārīraka-bhāṣya, he is going to hell. He's not only wasting his time, but he's going to hell. Sarva nāśa. Sarva nāśa means "all auspicity lost." Why? Why lost? Lost because as soon as you indulge in the reading of the Śaṅkara-bhāṣya, the whole program is you have to think that "I am God." So if I am God, then who is else God, that I have to worship? That means the prospect of devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is killed forever. Such rascal will never be able to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore he says, haya sarva nāśa. He is being murdered, you see, because he never will come. He'll always think, "I am God." Just like... Who was speaking? Yes, yes, Nikhilananda. He has discussed in that Vivekananda's speech that man is God. But somebody asks, "Why he has become dog?" "Oh," he says, "I do not know." So God says, "I do not know." He's such a God. And that is clearly written. Have you got that book? God, God, God... The followers of Śaṅkarācārya say that "I am God. There is no other God. Every one of us God." Then why you have become dog? "Oh, that I do not know." Is that God's, I mean to say, answer? If I ask if you are God, if I answer you, "Why you are dog?" you say, "I do not know," so are you God? God does not know? Well, God description is there in Parāśara-sūtra that He is full of all knowledge. That is God. And God says, "I do not know"? How he is...? What kind of God he is? That is clearly stated here. Why you have become dog? "I do not know. But I am God." He knows, "I am God," but he does not know why he has become dog. That is his knowledge. You'll find so many fallacies like this. How do you know that you are God? "That also I do not know." What is this? Is this any argument?



But God definition is that,

aiśvaryasya samāgrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇam bhāga itiṅgaṇa

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



Means Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is, is, He has got complete aiśvarya, wealth, He has got complete fame, He has got complete knowledge, He has got complete beauty, and He has got complete renunciation. By these six complete, I mean..., opulences, the God is there. So if you find somebody, that He's full in six opulences... So we find Kṛṣṇa. If you find in the history... Whole history of the world till now, you won't find any other person more than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is God. Therefore He is God. Find out from the history if anybody is more than Kṛṣṇa.



So this is, these are the definition, these are the knowledge. We have to follow these. Then we become perfect. Don't try to follow the rascals and nonsense. Then you'll go to hell.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



670218CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.108

-

San Francisco, February 18, 1967



*Prabhupāda: Brahman means "the greatest." So what is the idea of the greatest? The greatest means... That is described by Parāśara*-sūtra, that He is the greatest in wealth, greatest in fame, greatest in knowledge, greatest in renunciation, greatest in beauty, everything, whatever attractive. How, how you can understand "greatest"? "Greatest" does not mean that sky is the greatest. That is impersonal theory. But our "greatest" idea is that one who can swallow millions of skies within Himself, He is greatest. The material conception, they cannot go further. They can simply think of the greatest: the sky. That's all. "As great as the sky." But we Vaiṣṇava, we see that Kṛṣṇa has within His mouth millions of skies. So who is greatest? Kṛṣṇa is greatest or the sky is greatest? This is the difference between the Māyāvādī philosophers. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was boy, He was eating clay. His mother asked, "Oh, just open Your mouth. I want to see what You are eating." And Kṛṣṇa showed him (her) that millions of planets and millions of skies are within the mouth. So He is greatest, who can show that "Millions of skies are within Me." He is greatest. That means greatest in opulence of strength, greatest in strength, greatest in wealth, great..., everything greatest. He is greatest. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... He says Brahman means the greatest, and greatest means one who is greatest in six opulences.



*Now, so there are Upaniṣads. Generally they take eleven Upaniṣads primarily, but there are 108 Upaniṣads. Sometimes the explanation is given that "Why we have got 108 beads?" "Because there are 108 Upaniṣads." So chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa with 108 beads means that we are surpassing the study of 108 Upaniṣads. Another meaning is that there are 108 damsels who served Kṛṣṇa with all respect at Vṛndāvana. So that is also another explanation, 108. We are serving Kṛṣṇa's servitors, hundred and..., chief damsels of, at Vṛndāvana. So these 108 Upaniṣads are described, īśa kena kaṭha praśna muṇḍa māṇḍūkyo taittirī... You can count how many: Īśopaniṣad, Kenopaniṣad, Kaṭhopaniṣad, Praśnopaniṣad, Muṇḍakopaniṣad, Māṇḍūkyopaniṣad, Taittirīyopaniṣad. Then aitareyas ca chāndogya bṛhad-āraṇyakam tathā. Then Aitareya Upaniṣad, Chāndogyopaniṣad, Bṛhad-āraṇyakopaniṣad, Brahmokaivalyopaniṣad, Jābālopaniṣad. There are so many Upaniṣads, 108 Upaniṣads. Āruṇeyopaniṣad, Garbho, Nārāyaṇo, Haṁsa. This Haṁsadūta, the name, the Haṁsa Upaniṣad, it comes from Haṁsa. Garbho nārāyaṇo haṁso bindūro nārada sikaḥ. Sika*-upaniṣad, Nārada Upaniṣad.

maitrayaṇi kauṣītakī

*bṛhaj*-jābāla-tāpanī-

*kālāgni*-rudra-maitri-

*subālakṣari*-mantrika



There are so many *Upaniṣads*. We cannot remember them. Out of them, nine *Upaniṣads*, just like *Īśopaniṣad*, Kenopaniṣad, Kaṭhopaniṣad, Māṇḍūkyopaniṣad, Aitareyopaniṣad, Taittirīya Upaniṣad, just like, these nine *Upaniṣads* are very much popular, and generally people read these nine *Upaniṣads*.



Now, so far Upaniṣads are concerned, here are some of the notes from different Upaniṣads given by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He's quoting just like the statement of Upaniṣad, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. This is statement of one Upaniṣad, that the Supreme is pūrṇam, means complete. There is no minus; *it is always full, always pūrṇa. Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idam. And because this creation, material creation, is emanated from that supreme complete, therefore this is also complete. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. If a thing is complete and full, then the products should be also complete and full. So these are the statements. So how Kṛṣṇa is complete? Kṛṣṇa is complete*-His energy, His opulence, His beauty, His knowledge. Similarly, He's complete always. Then another statement, vicitra śakti puruṣa purāṇa. Another statement of Vedic literature, Upani..., vicitra śakti puruṣa purāṇa. That Supreme Absolute Truth is a puruṣa. Purusa means enjoyer, man. Man is supposed to be the enjoyer. He's not woman. Woman is supposed to be enjoyed. Therefore this very word is used: puruṣa. And Purāṇa, the oldest man, oldest man. Nobody... Because He's the cause of all causes; *therefore He should be the oldest. And we are also oldest because we are part and parcel. We are also oldest. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, pūrṇo nityaḥ purāṇaḥ... Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit na bhūtvā na bhūyaḥ bhavitā vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇaḥ. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ ayaṁ purāṇaḥ. Purāṇa means the oldest. We are also the oldest. So because part and parcel, it is always with the Supreme. Just like the molecule of sunshine: they are part and parcel of the sun. Whenever there is sun, oh, the molecules of sunshine is also there. Similarly, we are molecules of the Supreme. Therefore whenever the Supreme is there, we are also there. Therefore we are also Purāṇa. And puruṣa. Puruṣa means the tendency of becoming enjoyer. So that tendency we have also got. But we do not know that we can enjoy in cooperation with the Supreme because we are subordinate. Differently, we cannot enjoy. As soon as we make our plan to enjoy life differently with Kṛṣṇa, then we fall under the clutches of māyā. We cannot do that. Therefore we have to revive our consciousness that we agree to cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. That will give us ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. Just like if you want to enjoy your life, some way or other, if you can secure a very nice service in the government, oh, your life is fulfilled. But if you want to enjoy your life separately... The government is all-powerful. If you become a departmental secretary, oh, immediately you get five thousand dollars and everything is all right. Similarly, some way or other, if you can become a secretary of Kṛṣṇa, then your all problems solved. Don't try to enjoy independently. That is māyā. That is māyā.

*Similarly, there are other statements. Sa vṛkṣaḥ kalaḥ kṛtibhiḥ paro 'nyat yasmād prapañca*-parivartateyaṁ dharmavahaṁ pāpamaruddham. Then another statement, vedāham etat puruṣaṁ mahāntam āditya-varṇaṁ tamasaḥ parastād, that vedāham: "I understand that Supreme Person." Vedāham. Vedāham means "I understand." Puruṣa. He's again puruṣa. In the Bhagavad-gītā also you'll find, when Arjuna is recognizing Kṛṣṇa, he said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣam [Bg. 10.12]. Again puruṣam. So God is never woman. The foolish person who says that God is, can be worshiped as woman, as mother... No. That is not according to Vedic literature. God is always father. Therefore Bible is all right-conception of father, not mother. Not that "I worship Kali, goddess mother, and become God." These are all nonsense. He's always father, puruṣa. Everywhere we find puruṣa. Never we find that God is a female. No. God cannot be female. Female is energy. Just like Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā is Kṛṣṇa, but the energy of Kṛṣṇa, pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and still, Kṛṣṇa is male and Rādhā is female. So God, conception of God, always...

*Now, again, patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastād. That, that puruṣa, that... [break] ...mahāntam, the greatest, mahāntam. Mahāntam means the last word of the greatest. Antam means the last, and mahā means great. We have got idea of great, great, greater, greater, greatness, greatness. Where we finish all greatness, He's mahāntam. Mahāntam āditya*-varṇam. Āditya-varṇam. Āditya means the sun. Just like sun. Wherever the sun planet is there, oh, there is sunshine, always shining. So where the sun planet... Wherefrom... The sun planet is also a material thing like this earth. Wherefrom the... [break] ...inhabitants, they're all fiery. Therefore their glaring effulgence is being manifested. So if you can see in the material world such effulgence of a certain point, particular planet, how can you disbelieve that Kṛṣṇa planet is more dazzling? Kṛṣṇa planet is more dazzling, and from Kṛṣṇa planet the brahmajyoti is emanating. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. We get this information from Brahma-saṁhitā that, by spreading His effulgence, yasya prabhā... Prabhā means illumination, prakāśa. Just like this light is illuminating. So yasya prabhā. "Because illuminating light is emanating from His body..." Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi: [Bs. 5.40] "In that effulgence, millions and millions of planets are generating." The same example you can take, that all these planets... This is scientifically true, I mean to say, that all these planets, they have generated from the sunshine. Similarly, spiritual world, that effulgence of the body of Kṛṣṇa, that is spread, and there are hundreds and millions of Vaikuṇṭha planets are there. Mahāntam āditya-varṇam. And then where is that āditya? Where is that supreme sun? Tamasaḥ parastāt. Oh, that is beyond this darkness. This material world is dark by nature. We have several times explained. Therefore in the temporary... Now, just see the arrangement. The sun is there to drive out darkness, but the night is also there so that we can understand that by nature it is dark. Simply by timely appearance of the sun, it becomes day. Therefore there is day and night, day and night, day and night. Tamasaḥ parastāt. And other Vedic literatures-tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't keep yourself in this darkness. Just try to get out of it and go to that Brahman effulgence." Jyotir gamaḥ. Tamasaḥ parastāt.

Then another Upaniṣad, patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt. Patiṁ patīnām. There are many patis. Patis means proprietor, or husband. A husband is also considered a proprietor of the woman according to Vedic literature; *therefore the word dāsī. A woman's surname is dāsī. She agrees to serve the man. You have observed, when we get young couples married, we get it promised: the husband promises that "I take charge of your life. Your whole life shall be dependent upon me. I take full charge of you." And the woman agrees, "Yes, I also agree to serve you the whole life." This is marriage. The... If we exploit, of course... But this is the nice arrangement. This is cooperation. A woman agrees that "I shall serve you," because the man requires woman's service in so many ways by her ser..., cooking, by her embracing, by her becoming beautiful, so many ways. That is the encouragement so that he can work, he can live peacefully, he can discharge spiritual duties nicely. So there is cooperation. Stri*-puruṣa. Puruṣa is supposed to be enjoyer, but both their lives become sublime when there is cooperation. So patiḥ patīnām. So everyone is given the chance of becoming a pati. Pati means husband, or proprietor. Even the ant, it has got also a companion, female ant. Even the dog, it has got also companion. Even the small bird, even the insect, even the fly-everyone is given. This is called viṣaya. Viṣaya means material enjoyment.

*So viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This viṣaya, this material enjoyment, is provided by the laws of nature everywhere. Don't think that it is in the human society there is love and there is male*-female combination. No. Everywhere. That is nature's arrangement. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Therefore Bhāgavata asks everybody that "Don't be after viṣaya. Viṣaya is already arranged. Accept it as it is." But tūrṇaṁ yateta na mṛtyuṁ pateta yāvat niḥśreyasāya: "Your endeavor should be how to elevate yourself spiritually. Don't bother about viṣaya. Viṣaya is already arranged by nature's way." So patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt. No. He's also, God is also, as we are given the chance of becoming husband, similarly, He's the supreme husband. Supreme husband. Now, if He's the supreme husband and if He marries sixteen thousand wives, it is very difficult for Him? It is not at all difficult. So people do not understand, do not consult this Vedic literature, how it is stated the Supreme. How one can become Supreme? The Supreme... We judge the Supreme in the same philosophy, frog philosophy. "Atlantic Ocean? Oh, it may be a little bigger than this well. That's all." So our calculation of God is always like that. "Kṛṣṇa, He looks like us, just like a man. So what is there? He may be a little powerful than me. All right, He has spoken Bhagavad-gītā. All right. He's little more wiser than us." So we always compare with us. But it is not. He's supreme. We have no idea of the Supreme. Therefore we forget personality. Patiṁ patī... It is clearly stated, pati. Can pati, the husband or proprietor, can become imperson? No. When the conception of pati, husband and proprietor, is there, then He is personal. Patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt mahān prabhavaiḥ puruṣaḥ.

*Then again there is another statement: mahān prabhavaiḥ puruṣaḥ. The Lord Caitanya is called Mahāprabhu. Mahānprabhu. Prabhu, master. There are different kinds of master, but He's the mahān*-prabhu, the Supreme Master, Supreme Master, and Puruṣa at the same time. Prabhu, you can say... A woman also can become the master. Just like in England there is queen. But no. Puruṣa. He is never woman. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Then again another statement from the Upaniṣads, that "The Supreme has multi-energies." Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. He has got so much energies that it appears that it is being automatically done. Just like a, I mean to say, very important man you see. You go there and you... Suppose you ask him for some help, and suppose you want one million dollar, and if he gives you a slip, oh, you take it from there. If you get immediately, then you will understand, "Oh, how much powerful he is. Simply by a pencil, like this, I got millions of dollars!" So God is so powerful. It appears that..., everything is wonderfully, this material nature is working. But it is due to God's energy. His energies are so multifarious, He's so expert, that it appears automatically being done. Not automatically. Not automatically. No. Just like a big mathematician. You give him a very big sum, oh, and within a second, he will at once add it. And for me, I shall commit so many mistakes and perhaps the whole day will go on. Still, I shall not be able. Especially myself. I am never correct in adding. So if the... Supreme power means He has got so much energies, different kinds of energy, that it appears that there is no background, but the nature is working automatically. No. Bhagavad-gītā says no. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "The whole nature is working under My superintendence." But the superintendence is so perfect and so nice and so energetic that there cannot be any mistake. So this is called parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport].

Any question? Thank you very much.

Bhaktijana: What's the relationship between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā? Rādhā is the energy of Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: If the brahmajyoti is in the spiritual sky, how could we reach it in our mind? Is it in our mind also?



*Prabhupāda: It is here also. Just like the sunshine, when it is covered by cloud, the sunshine is also there. Do you follow? You see that the sky is covered, but still you say, "It is day." Why? The sunshine is there. Similarly, brahmajyoti is here also. Sarvaṁ khalu iti brahma: "Everything is Brahman." But it is covered by māyā. Therefore the full*-fledged brahmajyoti, you cannot see.



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: I thought it was a place that was far away.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is... Just like above the cloud there is sunshine, fully. We have seen it in an aeroplane. This airlines, U.S. airlines, they say, "Friendly skies." So go to the friendly sky. Why do you remain here, nonsense sky, always covered with cloud? Go to the friendly sky. Just go above the cloud. The cloud is māyā. Go above the māyā. Then you see. You are seeing already, but it is not full*-fledged experience. Everything we are seeing. We have experienced God's power, God's energy. But because we are in ignorance, therefore we cannot conceive perfectly. And as soon as you are above the māyā... Māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. That māyā you can, I mean to say, surpass simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As you become full-fledged Kṛṣṇa conscious, oh, then you see always brahmajyoti and Brahman and Kṛṣṇa and everything. And so far your present condition is, you are seeing also just now. Because without Brahman, there cannot be any existence. So one has to learn. In the flower you can see. In the tree you can see. In the taste you can see. In the water you can see. In the sound you can see. That is all stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: [Bg. 7.8] "I am the taste of the water." Water is so popular, so tasteful, to every living entity. Man, beast, birds-anyone-water requires. Why? There is a nice taste, quench our thirst. And Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: "That taste in water, I am." So if you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you know from the śāstras that "This taste is Kṛṣṇa," then at once you become Kṛṣṇa conscious while drinking water. "I am sound in the sky." So, as soon as there is some sound, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, you study Kṛṣṇa. You'll see. In the taste of water you'll find Kṛṣṇa. In the sound vibration you'll find Kṛṣṇa. If there is somebody very powerful, you'll find him, Kṛṣṇa. This description are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes?



Devotee: Swamijī, I'm trying to... You said that, one time, that brahmajyoti is like the pure light, and it's filtered in the material world through the modes?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Material world means three modes.



Devotee: So is that like...? Well... Because the modes don't exist in the spiritual world. Is that right?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you go above the cloud, there is no cloud. That's all. But there is. In a certain portion of the sky, there is cloud. And that cloud is also not permanent. Sometimes sky is clear of all clouds, but sometimes cloud is there. The cloud is generating in the sky and it is vanquished in the sky. Similarly, this material world is sometimes being manifested and sometimes there is no manifestation, simply spiritual. Spiritual is always eternal. The sky, sunshine, is always eternal. Take this crude example. But the cloud is not eternal. It comes and goes, although cloud is a product of the same sunshine. Cloud is not independent. By interaction of sunshine, there is cloud, and that cloud is... There is no cloud. Similarly, this material world is just like cloud. It appears. It acts. When there is cloud, there is torrents of rain. Oh, there are so many productions on account of rain. Everything becomes green. So we give so much importance to the cloud, and it is important also, but it is temporary. As soon as the cloud is over, the greenness is gone. There is no rain. Nothing, nothing. And when the sky is clear, you'll see, "Oh, where is cloud? Where is cloud?" Similarly, this māyā means it appears like the cloud, and it disappears like the cloud, but the eternal brahmajyoti remains.



Bhaktijana: Did Kṛṣṇa create us for to serve Him?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Bhaktijana: Did Kṛṣṇa create us to serve Him?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Bhaktijana: And to enjoy us?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Very nice. So we should prepare ourselves to our healthy condition. That is our healthy condition. As soon as we understand that Kṛṣṇa created us... Kṛṣṇa created... There is no creation. Just like if I say that my hand is created, no, it is not created. As long as the body is there, the hand is there. Otherwise, there is no meaning of body. Similarly, we are not created. Kṛṣṇa is always there; we are also always there. And there are millions and millions of liberated souls who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa. They never misuse their independence. And we small quantity, we misused our independence. We wanted to enjoy separately. Therefore we are conditioned.



Bhaktijana: But there are, there are many...?



Prabhupāda: ...liberated souls. They are never conditioned. They never become conditioned. Yes?



Devotee: You mean they never were conditioned at any time or...



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee: You said there were millions of souls...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. They were never conditioned. They were never conditioned, never conditioned. They are called nitya*-mukta, eternally liberated. We are only simple few, this material world. Just like I have several times told you that the prison house. The population of prison house is nothing in comparison to the whole population. What is there? Suppose in New York there is a prison house. Oh, what may be the number? A few thousand maybe. But here, millions. Similarly, the liberated souls are millions; *we are only few thousands, or hundreds. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. We are thinking this universe is very great. It is nothing in comparison to the whole creation of the Lord. You are seeing only universe, but there are millions of universes like this. All together, they are ekāṁśena sthito jagat. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. This is only a part of Kṛṣṇa's creation. One devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, er, Lord Caitanya, requested, "My dear Lord, You have come to deliver all the fallen souls. You please take all the conditioned souls of this universe, and if You think they are not competent, they are sinful, You can give me all the sin to me. I shall suffer for them, but You kindly take." So this is the desire of a pure devotee, that "All may go with Kṛṣṇa. Let them become liberated. I shall suffer all their..." Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "Suppose I keep your request. I take these, all the living entities of this universe. Do you think, is there any loss of this material world? It is just like a one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds." So this universe is just like one mustard seed in one big bag of mustard seeds. Can you count how many mustard seeds are there in a big bag? So the idea was that Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "Even this universe is delivered fully, oh, there is a big bag of mustard seeds. It is only one grain." There are so many conditioned souls, and these conditioned souls are only insignificant in comparison to the liberated souls. Just imagine what is the quantity of liberated souls.



Bhaktijana: How could we make a poor choice if we were part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? How could we have chosen the material world?



Prabhupāda: Oh, because you have got independence. Don't you see so many students come. They go away again. Yesterday Kīrtanānanda went to call Ranchora. He said, "Oh, I have forgotten this!" So you can forget. There is another student. He was also our student, Wally. "Oh, you can go immediately!" Suppose if you... "Oh, I don't care for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness Society. Who calls you? You can go." That independence is there. We can misuse.



Bhaktijana: But Kṛṣṇa will always be there if we want to go back?



Prabhupāda: Eh? Kṛṣṇa is always prepared to accept you. He's always prepared. But because He has given us independence, we misuse it and we fall under the clutches of māyā. That is our misfortune. We create this misfortune, and we can create our good fortune. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is to your good fortune. If you become māyā conscious, it is to your bad fortune. You are the creator.



Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all..., do they also have the independence?



Prabhupāda: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Kṛṣṇa's service," and they are happy in Kṛṣṇa's service.



Bhaktijana: Could they ever misuse it?



Prabhupāda: Yes, they can misuse it also. That power is there. Yes?



Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Kṛṣṇaloka, there's no possibility of falling back.



*Prabhupāda: No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, "Swamijī, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man," I'll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I'll never become. So if one is intelligent enough, if he has got actually the bitter taste of this material world, he'll never agree. He'll never agree. But those who have not advanced to such knowledge, oh, they think, "Oh, this material enjoyment is very nice. Let me taste it and let me do business in my sannyāsī life, and stealthily and privately, let me enjoy." These things are going on. That means they have no taste. They come to hospital*-making or this philanthropy. This come again. Sthānād bhraṣṭād patanty adhaḥ. Ye 'nye aravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. "Those fools who are thinking that 'Simply by thinking myself, "I am God, I am Brahman, I have become liberated," ' " but ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvāt [SB 10.2.32], "but there is no knowledge about You, Kṛṣṇa," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam, "they, after performing so much austerity and penances, they rise up to the highest position, Brahman realization, but," patanty adhaḥ, "they fall down." We have got so many instances. They take sannyāsa. They say that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This world is false. Brahman is truth." But after some days, they come to politics, they come to sociology, they come to hospital, they come to this and that. That's all. Finished. Brahman finished. Patanty adhaḥ. They must fall down because they have no shelter in Kṛṣṇa. Just like the sputnik goes very high, clap, hear clap. Uh, come down again. Where you'll go? Yes. Simply for the time being clapping, that's all. (laughs) But the fools, they are so nonsense, they are satisfied with that temporary clapping. That's all.



Bhaktijana: Has my soul ever been liberated?



Prabhupāda: That you know. I do not know.



Bhaktijana: If I was once liberated...



*Prabhupāda: You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever*-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this māyā. This is called māyā. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. Don't you sometimes dream that tiger is eating you? Is there any tiger? You are simply thinking. So if you keep in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that nonsense thinking will go away. Therefore we have to keep ourself always in Kṛṣṇa-thinking so that this dream will never come. If you are always awakened, then dream never comes. So keep yourself always awakened by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All right. Distribute prasādam. (end)





670220CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.109-114

-

San Francisco, February 20, 1967



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is stressing that to read Vedic literature, Vedānta, Upaniṣad*-these are principal literatures in the Vedic knowledge-then Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, all these books should be studied from the direct meaning. Don't try to interpret. According to ordinary, I mean to say, dealings, suppose in the law court there are two parties. Two lawyers are fighting on the principle of one clause or section in the lawbook. One is interpreting in a different way, one is interpreting in a different way, and the judges give their judgment. Now, the opportunity for interpretation is there when the meaning is not clear. A very good example is given by the grammarians, or Sanskrit scholars, that gaṅgayaṁ ghoṣapali, that "There is a neighborhood which is called Ghoṣapali on the Ganges." Now somebody may ask, "How there can be a quarter on the Ganges? Ganges is water." So there is interpretation required. So somebody says, " 'On the Ganges' means on the bank of the Ganges." That makes it clear. "On the Ganges" does not mean that in the middle water there is a, I mean to say, residential quarter. No. "On the Ganges" means on the bank of the Ganges.



*So when there is such doubt, one can interpret. But when there is no doubt*-everyone can understand clearly the meaning-there is no question of interpreting. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's stressing, that gauṇa-vṛttye yebā bhāṣya karila ācārya. Therefore each and every aphorism and verse of Vedānta-sūtra has been indirectly interpreted by the Śārīraka-bhāṣya. Such interpretation, if somebody hears, then his future is doomed. Just like our Gandhi, he wanted to prove, from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence. The Bhagavad-gītā is being preached in the battlefield, and it is completely violence. How he can prove? Therefore he is dragging the meaning out of his own con... It is very troublesome, and anyone who will read such interpretation, he is doomed. He is doomed because the Bhagavad-gītā is meant for awakening your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If that is not awakened, then it is useless waste of time. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu embraced the brāhmaṇa who was illiterate, but he took the essence of Bhagavad-gītā, the relationship between the Lord and the devotee. Therefore, unless we take the real, I mean to say, essence of any literature, it is simply waste of time.

tāṅhāra nāhika doṣa, īśvara-ājñā pāñā

gauṇārtha karila mukhya artha ācchādiyā

[Cc. Ādi 7.110]



*Now, at the beginning, He criticized Śaṅkarācārya that "If somebody hears Śaṅkarācārya's commentation, then he's sure to be doomed." But again He supports Śaṅkarācārya. Why? Śaṅkarācārya is the incarnation of Lord Śiva, and he's a great devotee. Śaṅkara... Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ: "There are many devotees of the Lord, but the foremost devotee is Lord Śiva." And he has got a disciplic succession which is called Viṣṇu Svāmī*-sampradāya. So Śaṅkarācārya was covered devotee. He's covered devotee. His aim was to bring men to the standard of devotional service, but the time and circumstances in which he was preaching, he could not place his real object because they were unable to understand. At last, at the end of his life, he composed so many poetries in praise of Vṛndāvana-līlā, and especially his very famous Catpar pandika (?), that is, he has stated,



bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ

*bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha*-mate

prāpte sannihite kāla maraṇe

*na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛñ*-karaṇe



*"My dear foolish brothers, you kindly worship Kṛṣṇa, Govinda..." Thrice he has said, bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha*-mate. Mūḍha-mate means "You foolish nonsense, you kindly worship Govinda." Why? Now, prāpte sannihite kāla maraṇe: "When death will be nearer, your this grammatical interpretation, ḍukṛñ karaṇe, this pratha (?), that pratha (?), arguing, jugglery of words, will not save you, will not save you. You please worship Govinda." That is his instruction. And there are many others.



*So Śaṅkarācārya was a covered devotee. He was devotee. Somebody accuses Śaṅkarācārya that he was covered Buddhist. But so far I am concerned, I say that Śaṅkarācārya was covered devotee. He was devotee at heart, but because he was ordered to preach in that way... Otherwise, there was no alternative. That is stated in the Padma Purāṇa. When there is conversation between Lord Śiva and his wife Pārvatī, he disclosed that "In the age of Kali, as a Brāhmaṇa, I preach this Māyāvāda philosophy, which is covered Buddha philosophy." Buddha philosophy says that "This material life is all. After this material life, there is nothing, all void." And Śaṅkarācārya said that "It is impersonal. There is no variety." So in both the philosophies there is no acceptance of Lord, the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead. Therefore they are called nāstika*-vāda. Nāstika-vāda means atheism, atheism. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described Buddha religion as atheism. "And Māyāvāda philosophy," He has said, "dangerous atheism." He has given little preference to Buddhism, but to Māyāvāda philosophy He has stated, "It is dangerous atheism." His exact version is like that, bheda namiya bauddha haila nāstika. Vedāśraye nāstika-vāda bauddha ke adika. He says that "We call the Buddhists as atheists because the simple reason is that they do not accept Vedas." Lord Buddha, he denied, that "I don't care for the Vedas. I have got my this own proposition, that ahiṁsā. Nonviolence is the religion. That's all." So he did not accept Vedas. Therefore, those who are Vedantists, those who are followers of Vedas, they called Buddhist religion atheism. Atheism means anyone who does not believe in scriptures, standard scriptures. That is called atheism.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that Buddha philosophy is atheism undoubtedly, but Śaṅkara philosophy is dangerous atheism because he is accepting Vedānta, but he is preaching atheism. He's accepting... Under the shelter of Vedānta, he's preaching atheism. So therefore they are more dangerous. Just like you are fighting with your enemies, that is very clear. "The other party is my enemy." But if somebody's treating as your friend and within he's trying to kill you, enemy, oh, that is very dangerous enemy. So similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that Buddhism is atheism. That's all right. But this Śaṅkara's philosophy is more dangerous than atheism. And actually, so*-called, so many swamis and sannyāsīs, they came. They come from India. They are this same, dangerous atheists. Nobody has preached in your country this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or... Bhagavad-gītā is widely read, but differently interpreted. So therefore they are dangerous atheists. They are... Under the garb of Bhagavad-gītā, they are preaching atheism. So they are very dangerous. But still, because he was Lord Śiva, incarnation of Lord Śiva, and he had a particular duty, therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu supports now that tāṅhāra nāhika doṣa: "He's not faulty. He's not faulty because the time required to propagate such philosophy, and he had done that under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He wanted."

*There is, Padma Purāṇa, there is statement. In the Padma Purāṇa there is: māyāvādam asac*-chāstraṁ pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate. In the Padma Purāṇa it is stated that "This Māyāvāda philosophy is covered Buddhism." Mayaiva kalpitaṁ devi kalau brāhmaṇa-mūrtinā. Lord Śiva says to his wife, "My dear Pārvatī, in the age of Kali, in the garb of a brāhmaṇa, I'll have to preach this philosophy." Brahmaṇaś cāparaṁ rūpaṁ nirguṇam vakṣyate mayā. Brāhmaṇaś ca aparaṁ rūpam: "Brahman, the Supreme Lord, He has got transcendental form, but I'll have to preach that He has no form, nirguṇam." Sarvasvaṁ jagato 'py asya mohanārthaṁ kalau yuge: "In the age of Kali, just to bewilder the persons, I'll have to preach this philosophy." Vedānte tu mahā-śāstre māyāvādam avaidikam: "And, when I shall explain Vedānta, I shall explain everything against Vedas."

vedānte tu mahā-śāstre

māyāvādam avaidikam

mayaiva vakṣyate devi

*jagatāṁ nāśa*-kāraṇāt



"In order to kill the atheistic person, I'll have to preach this." This is stated in *Padma Purāṇa*. And similarly, in the Śiva Purāṇa also, there is another verse:



dvāparādau yuge bhūtvā

kalayā mānuṣādiṣu

svāgamaiḥ kalpitais tvaṁ ca

*janān mad*-vimukhān kuru



Oh, the Supreme Lord is ordering Lord Śiva that "In the age of Kali, you go and try to make them against Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*So there are so many policies and so many programs of the supreme authorities, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that that is time service. For the time being they are necessary. Actually, such interpretation is not necessary at all. We should take direct meaning. Now He's explaining Vedānta. The first thing He's explaining, 'brahma' śabde mukhya arthe kahe-'bhagavān'. Whenever we speak of Brahman... Because these Māyāvādī philosophers, they are very much uttering this word, "Brahman." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "All Brahman." They don't utter "Kṛṣṇa" or "Govinda." Oh, that is very difficult for them. They simply utter, "Brahman." Now... Let them. Brahman is also Vedic word. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the direct meaning of Brahman is Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Cid*-aiśvarya-paripūrṇa, anūrdhva-samāna. Now what is the grammatical meaning of Brahman? The grammatical meaning of Brahman is that "the greatest" and "expansive." That is the grammatical meaning of Brahman. Which is unlimitedly expanded and greatest, He is called Brahman. Now, who can be unlimitedly expansive unless He's unlimitedly powerful? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, the same meaning is there. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So Brahman-Paramātmā ultimately means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Without coming to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the conception of Brahman-Paramātmā is imperfect. Why? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that cid-aiśvarya-paripūrṇa, anūrdhva-samāna. You cannot have conception of the greatest, unlimited, unless you place six kinds of opulence, opulences in full. Because aiśvarya, the opulences... Just like wealth, fame, and beauty, knowledge, and renunciation, they should be unlimited. Now, when they are not unlimited, he's not Brahman, or he's not the Supreme Lord.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's interpretation... Not interpretation*-He says Brahman means that "One who is in full opulences, He's Brahman." Tāṅhāra vibhūti, deha-saba cid-ākāra: "Therefore, because He's the greatest, therefore He cannot be under the control of this māyā." The Māyāvāda philosophy says that "We are now under the control of māyā. Therefore we have forgotten that we are all Gods." In the Nikhilananda's book, this is explained. He is discussing Vivekananda's speech, that "We are all Gods. Every one of us, we are God." "Then why you have become dog?" "That we do not know." That is the explanation. But actually, the explanation is that we are also Brahman, but not Bhagavān, the Supreme Brahman. That is the explanation. Therefore we are prone to be under the subjugation of māyā. This is real explanation. I am, I am not the Supreme Brahman. The greatest Brahman, I am not. Brahman means 'greatest,' but I am also Brahman, but I am... The infinite and the infinitesimal. We are infinitesimal. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā also-mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "My, these living entities, they are My parts and parcels." Such parts and parcels of the Brahman is also Brahman. As part and parcel, minute particle, of gold is also gold, minute particle of poison is also poison, so similarly, we are minute, atomic part and parcel of the Supreme. Therefore we are not the unlimited or the biggest. We are Brahman, undoubtedly, but we are not the biggest. Therefore we are prone to be under the control of māyā. But Supreme Brahman, He's never under the... Therefore Māyāvāda philosophy, that "At the present moment, I am under the control of māyā, but as soon as I become free from the control of māyā, then I become the Supreme," therefore they cannot answer that "Why, if you are Supreme, why you are under the clutches of māyā? Then māyā becomes greater. You are not the greatest." They cannot answer this philo..., this question. At that time, they become fool: "We do not know."

*So anyway, tāṅhāra vibhūti, saba... Therefore Brahman, His body, cannot be material. So material matter is under His control. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that "This material nature is under My control." And in another place it is said,

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*"The whole cosmic manifestation is rolling on under My superintendence." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. "Under My order, under My supervision," prakṛtiḥ, "this, oh, the huge, gigantic material nature, is working under Me," hetunānena, "and, on this account, there is rules and regulations, everything is being done nicely." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "Because Brahman, or the Supreme Lord, is the greatest, therefore His body cannot be made of this material nature." Because material nature is created at a certain interval, and who creates? Creates, the Supreme Lord. The creator, therefore, cannot be under the material nature. If I am creator of something, so I cannot be under the, that particular thing which is created. It is logical. So therefore, because the Supreme Brahman, or Bhagavān, is the creator of this material nature, He cannot be under the control of māyā. He is... And that is also stated in Bhagavad*-gītā, many places. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. Ātma-māyayā. Not this māyā. Māyā means potency. So we have got the experience of this potency, material potency, but there is another potency which is called spiritual potency. So spiritual potency is the internal energy of Kṛṣṇa, and material potency is the external energy. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Whenever I come," yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7], "whenever there is discrepancies in the discharging of religious principles," adharmasya abhyutthānam abhyutthānam adharmasya, "and there is great predominance of irreligiosity," tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "I, at that time, I come." Paritra... Why? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām: [Bg. 4.8] "Just to save the pious and the righteous and to vanquish the impious."



*So these are stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Therefore natural conclusion, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, that His potencies, His body and His activities-everything spiritual. There is nothing material. Cid-vibhūti ācchādi' tāṅre kahe 'nirākāra.' And when there is some indication of impersonalism in the Vedas, it should be understood that His body is not of this material nature. If somebody says that "God does not belong to this matter," that is all right. That does not mean He's impersonal. He has got a spiritual body. Matter is denied. The whole Upaniṣad... First of all they describe the Supreme... Just like apāṇi-pādo javano grahītā. There are Vedic statements that "The Supreme has no hands, but He can accept whatever you offer." Now, this is contradictory. If He has no hands, how He can accept? What for He's accepting. Therefore it is to be understood that He has His hand, but not this hand. My hand is, er, can stretch, say, one yard only, but because He's unlimited, His hand can be stretched... Just like we are offering foodstuff, so how He is eating? That is His... He's eating by His transcendental body. We cannot see at the present moment, but He is eating. How He's eating? Because we have got the information, "Yes, I eat." Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ: "Anyone who is My devotee and offers in love, I take them." So that cannot be... There is no mistake. But how He is taking, how He is eating, because we are in this material body, we do not see it, but He is taking. Therefore cid-vibhūti ācchādi' tāṅre kahe 'nirākāra'.

*cid-ānanda*-teṅho, tāṅra sthāna, parivāra

*tāṅre kahe*-prākṛta-sattvera vikāra



*Now, the Lord's body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, and Śaṅkarācārya says that prākṛta*-sattvera vikāra. "This body of Kṛṣṇa or Lord Rāma, when They come," according to Māyāvāda philosophy, that "actually, the Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, has no form, but when They assume form, They take help of this material nature." That is not a fact. They come in Their own spiritual form. That is confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*tāṅra doṣa nāhi, teṅho ājñā*-kārī dāsa

*āra yei śune tāra haya sarva*-nāśa



Now, he preached this bewildering philosophy because he was ordered to do so by the Supreme Lord. That was his duty. But we must be very much careful. If we hear Śaṅkara's interpretation, or commentation, then you are doomed. "You are doomed" means no more Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are thrown into wilderness for many, many births. Then sometimes, if you come in contact with some pure devotee, it may be possible. But so far Śaṅkarācārya's bhāṣya is concerned, or anyone who is following that commentation, they are doomed.



Thank you very much. [break]

Woman: If someone who does not believe in scriptures, um, what is his duty, and...?



Prabhupāda: His duty is to go to hell. One who does not believe in scriptures, they are meant for going to hell.



Woman: What can one do to rectify his offenses? (?)



Prabhupāda: Well, just come... [break] That will help you.



Woman: But if a person is not willing to do that, is there any way... (static)



*Prabhupāda: Oh, how can you do that? If a person is not willing to take medicine, how he can be cured? He'll go to death. He must be willing to. That is a, I mean to say, explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. So that is very dangerous position, one who does not take care. Suppose if one wants to be educated without going to school. How it is possible? If somebody says, "Oh, I don't care for any school, colleges. I'll be educated at home," this is nonsense. Is it possible? Or will anybody recognize you? Then what is the use? Waste of time. That is the disease. Everyone thinks, "Oh, I am everything. I am perfect." That is the disease, material disease. Everyone is thinking, "I am independent. I am perfect. Whatever I think, oh, that is all right." This is going on. First of all, if anyone wants advancement, he must first of all think just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu is pretending, that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool [Cc. Adi 7.71]." So one must agree to become a great fool and study these scriptures from bona fide spiritual master. Then there is hope of advancement. Yes?



*Guest (1): (static) ...your description of the impersonalist philosophers does not correspond..., it's happening, say, by themselves they make a distinction how those things make... (static) ...a part of that philosophy that seems crucial to extending it, and that is sometimes called the "little self" and the "big self," the "big self" being the person who we are-personality, ego*-and the other type of ego is the actual ego. And when one's ego is dissolved, he will wake up, as it were. As, like you wake up out of a dream and you find that you thought you were one of the characters in the dream while you were dreaming, when you wake up you realize that you didn't have this limited identity. You had a greater identity which encompassed all the characters in the dream.



Prabhupāda: Where you lose your personality? Either in dream or in awakened, you are person. When do you lose your personality? When you become imperson?



Guest (1): When do you lose it? When you wake up from the dream of this material world.



Prabhupāda: You are not imperson at that time. You are person. You are thinking, "I was dreaming." So your ego is there.



Guest (1): Yeah...



Prabhupāda: Then how...?



Guest (1): Well, they say...



Prabhupāda: Where do you lose your ego? Where your ego is dissolved?



Guest (1): Where is it dissolved?



Prabhupāda: Yes? It is never dissolved.



Guest (1): It is dissolved into a finer form of consciousness.



*Prabhupāda: No, finer... Just now, your example: you were dreaming. Now you are awakening. You are now seeing, "Oh, I was dreaming." So the same person who was dreaming and who is thinking that "I was dreaming"*-the same person. Where your identity is dissolved? In both the cases, you are standing, "I." This is...



Guest (1): Yeah, but they say at the next awakening you dissolve this "I."



*Prabhupāda: This "I" is..., this "I" is not in dream. That is the difference. The "I" in dream and "I" in not*-dream, but "I" is there. Where is your "I" dissolved?



Guest (1): Well, when you're chanting it's dissolved, actually.



Prabhupāda: Never.



Guest (1): Forget yourself?



Prabhupāda: No. We don't forget. We always remember that we are servants of God. We don't forget. We forget this material nonsense. That's all. But don't forget ourself. Our identity is there. We are all servants of God, Kṛṣṇa dāsa. And this is real ego. So ego is not dissolved. Ego is there, but it is purified. It is purified. Yes?



Kīrtanānanda: Well, er, it's so difficult to control the senses. So we're engaging all of our senses in chanting and dancing and so forth. Now, the thinking mind is most difficult. So we can engage that in thinking of Kṛṣṇa. So...



Prabhupāda: Well, when you are chanting, that is thinking, practically thinking. When you are chanting, you are practically thinking. When you are cooking, it is practically thinking. You are cooking for Kṛṣṇa. You are typing for Kṛṣṇa. You are chanting Kṛṣṇa's name.



Kīrtanānanda: But there seems to be also a stage of not thinking. Is that... When one is chanting, should they not think or should they think of Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: No, no. Not thinking is not there. Thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means thinking of Kṛṣṇa and His energy. There is no question of destruction. It is purification. The psychic power-thinking, feeling and willing*-is purified. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmalam means purified. But it is not lost. It is not lost. Purified. And when it is purified, hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170], with that purified sense, purified mind, when you apply it for Kṛṣṇa, that is called bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Bhaktijana: Can you ever lose your identity?



Prabhupāda: Evolute? What is that?



Kīrtanānanda: Can you ever lose your identity?



Prabhupāda: What is that? What does it mean?



Rūpānuga: Can you ever lose your "I," the sense of "I"?



Bhaktijana: Can I ever forget myself?



Prabhupāda: How you can forget yourself?



Guest (2): Not self.



Prabhupāda: You cannot forget. You simply purify it. In diseased condition, your identification of "I" is different. Sometimes you are in convulsion. You forget... Rather, that is forgetfulness. Sometimes if we are, I mean to say, deranged in brain, we forget everything of our relationship. But when you are cured, you remember, "Oh, I was forgetful in my that delusion. Yes." So your "I" is always there. This "I," this "I," remembering, is purified. So ego has to be purified. Ego has not to be killed. And that cannot be killed, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], because it is eternal. How can you kill ego? It is not possible. So you have to purify your ego. The difference between is between false ego and real ego. Just like ahaṁ brahmāsmi, aham... "I am Brahman." Oh, this is also ego. This is, this Vedic version that "I am Brahman. I am not this matter," so this ego is purified ego, that "I am this." So that "I" is always there. Either in illusion or delusion or dream or in healthy stage, the "I" is always there.



Bhaktijana: When you're typing, should you think of Kṛṣṇa first and your typing second?



Prabhupāda: Well, when you type, at least in our Society, whenever we type, we type something which is describing Kṛṣṇa's form, quality, beauty. We are typing this. We are not typing any business letter or any political propaganda. We are typing, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful. Kṛṣṇa says like this. Kṛṣṇa told Prahlāda like that. Prahlāda told Kṛṣṇa like that." Everything Kṛṣṇa. As you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that (makes typewriter sound:) "cut, cut, cut" is also "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa."



Bhaktijana: Can Kṛṣṇa...? Is Kṛṣṇa made out of atoms like we are?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Bhaktijana: Is Kṛṣṇa made out of atoms like we are? When He comes down and takes the food?



Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa is not atom. Kṛṣṇa is big. The biggest. We are atom. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. We are atom.



Bhaktijana: Kṛṣṇa takes the, er, takes the spiritual matter from the food and leaves us the physical matter...?



Prabhupāda: No. He takes, He takes...



Bhaktijana: When we offer up...



Prabhupāda: ...when He takes, He does not take anything material. He takes spiritual.



Bhaktijana: And leaves the material for us...?



Prabhupāda: No. That is also spiritual. That is not material.



Bhaktijana: What's left, then?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Bhaktijana: What's left when Kṛṣṇa takes...?



Prabhupāda: That is spiritual. Unless it is spiritual... Just like... First try to understand how it is spiritual. Of course, in our gross vision, we see, "Oh, we offer this capati to Kṛṣṇa, and Swamijī said namo brahmaṇya devāya, and it becomes spiritual." Yes. It becomes spiritual. How? That we have to understand by the result. Phalena paricīyate. If you eat this spiritual food, you'll get spiritual strength. That is practical. Just like I'll give you another example: milk. You take more milk preparation, you get diarrhea. You go to a physician, he'll say, "Yes. Today you take only yogurt mixed with little salt and black pepper." Cured, diarrhea cured. Now, you can say, "The same milk?" But it is treated. Therefore it cures. You can say, "Oh, the same milk? Yogurt is also milk." But it is treated. Therefore it cures. So you'll find that your material disease is being cured by spiritual foodstuff. That is practical. Therefore it is spiritual.



Woman: Uh, does belief in any scripture, or..., any scripture whatsoever, such as the Bible or Koran...?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Woman: Does belief in any scripture...



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.



Woman: ...lead to salvation?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Certainly. Yes. The same thing, just like I have given example several times that pocket dictionary and the big dictionary, both of them are dictionaries. It is not that because it is small pocket dictionary, therefore it is not dictionary. It is also dictionary. So when he's advanced and finished pocket dictionary, he may consult the big dictionary. That is the difference. Bible is not different from Bhagavad*-gītā, but when one is perfectly conversant with Bible, he'll understand more nicely Bhagavad-gītā. It is not contradictory. It is helpful. All right. Distribute prasādam. (end)





670222CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.113-17

-

San Francisco, February 22, 1967



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So there are so many statements in the Upaniṣads about the Absolute Truth being the Supreme Person. Patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt mahān prabhur vai puruṣaḥ parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate... [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. This, this, up to this we discussed yesterday. So parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. This is from Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad. So the commentator says that in the Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad it is stated, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate: "That Supreme Personality of Godhead's energies are variously manifested." Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like a very... In your country it is very easy to understand that a man is sitting as controller in the control room, the subway trains. He, in his table, he has got everything ready: which train is running on which line, where it is, in which station it is now. So he has got switches and he's controlling everything. Not only here, in India also they have now many (managed?). So they can say which train is where it is now. The light also moves according to the train moving. Similarly, if you can manufacture, if you can invent your own energies in different way, as the modern material civilization, they are discovering different manifestations of energy by machine, by electronics, and they are managing from one place, similarly, if it is, materially it is possible, why not spiritually? Spiritual is still finer.



*So parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He has got so many energies, subtle energies, that He appears to be doing nothing. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is at Vṛndāvana. He is playing as cowherds boy, or He is dancing with the cowherd girls, or He is going to the pasturing ground with the cows as if He has nothing to do. He is free. Why He is free? Because He has got so many energies to act that He hasn't got to see personally whether things are being done or not done. This is the Absolute Truth qualification. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate, na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. There is another qualification: that Supreme Personality of Godhead is so that nobody is equal or higher than Him in opulences. Na tasya samaḥ. Samaḥ means equal, and adhikasya, adhikasya means higher. He has no equal; *neither anybody is more than Him. Therefore everybody is under Him, subordinate to Him. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. Similarly, in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad there is another statement that tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Viṣṇuṁ padam. Viṣṇu is the highest Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this material world, which is being conducted by three modes of material nature, so Brahma, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara... Brahmā is in charge of the creation, Viṣṇu is in charge of maintenance, and Lord Śiva is in charge of destruction, dissolution. Janma, janma*-sthiti-pralaya. Everything material, it has got a fixed date of its birth, its duration and its dissolution. So the Viṣṇu, in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad, out of these three Deities, viṣṇoḥ tat-paramaṁ padam, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padam, Viṣṇu.

*Those who are sūrayaḥ... Sūrayaḥ. Sūrayaḥ means those who are demigods. There are two kinds of people: sura and asura. Asura means demons, and sura means godly. So sūrayaḥ tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti. Those who are demigods, those who are godly, they are simply searching after the Supreme Absolute Truth. They are focusing their concentration, their meditation, on the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. This is the statement of Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad. Sa īkṣāñcakre. In the Praśna Upaniṣad... This is in the Ṛg-veda. I am sorry. This version, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ, this version is from Ṛg-veda. Then again, in the Praśna Upaniṣad, there is another statement, sa īkṣāñcakre: "He glanced over, glanced over." "Glanced over" means when He glanced over, then the creation began, this material creation. Therefore it should be understanding, it should be understood that this glancing is not material because before His glancing there was no material creation. So our glancing and His glancing is different. Our glancing*-we are seeing with these material eyes. As soon as these material eyes will be taken away, we cannot see. We are blind. But He... Here is the statement, īkṣāñcakre: "He saw." "He saw" means He saw with His spiritual eyes. Otherwise where is the material creation, that He can have material eyes? So these things are to be considered. Similarly, if He has got spiritual eyes, then He has got spiritual ear, He has got spiritual nose, He has got spiritual head, body, everything spiritual. And it is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti [Bs. 5.32]. The Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, His bodily, different, I mean to say, limbs of His body, or different senses, they are so perfect that every sense organ can act the, I mean to say, work of the other senses. Just like we can see with our eyes. Simply we can see. But if I close my eyes, I cannot see. But my... I can hear only by my ears, but I cannot see. If I close my eyes, I cannot see with my ears. But about the Supreme Personality of Godhead it is said that He can see with His ears, He can see with His hand, and He can hear with His hand. He can do anything from any part of His body. That is spiritual. He can do any part of His body. Just like, this is the philosophy. Now, we offer something to Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say, Deity is not different from original Kṛṣṇa because absolute. Everything is Kṛṣṇa. Why this Deity should not be Kṛṣṇa? This is quite reasonable. If Kṛṣṇa is everything, why not this Deity Kṛṣṇa? This is also Kṛṣṇa. He can do. He has, His power is just like... If you take my photograph and if you put it in my seat, and I am not here, that photograph cannot act because it is material. But for Kṛṣṇa, His photograph, His statue, His everything can act because He is spiritual. So we should always know that as soon as we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is immediately there. Immediately. Kṛṣṇa is already there. But we should know that He has, by sound vibration, Kṛṣṇa is there. So aṅgāni yasya. Sa īkṣāñcakre.

*So His vision, His presence, His activities, they are all spiritual. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: "Anyone who understands the absolute nature of My birth, of My appearance, disappearance and activities," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], "he becomes immediately liberated." Sa aikṣata. Sa imāḹ lokān asṛjata. This is Aitareya Upaniṣad. What is that? Sa aikṣata. The same thing: "He saw. He put His glance." Sa aikṣata. Sa imāḹ lokān asṛjata: "He has created all this material manifestation, cosmic manifestation." So tad vā īśan vijato tebhya ha prabhur babhūva. In this way, there are so many instances, so many quotations. Apāṇi-pādaḥ. In the Śvetāśvatara, apāṇi-pādaḥ. He has no, I mean to say, hands and legs. If He has no hands and legs, then how can He see? Is there any instance in your experience that something which has no hands and legs, he can see? No. He has no... Whenever... This is impersonal... The impersonalists quotes these authorities, that "He has no hands and... Therefore He's impersonal." No, it is not... If He sees, sa aikṣata, if He sees, if He hears, if He creates, then there is hand, there is eyes. But another place, if it is said, apāṇi-pādaḥ: "He has no hands and legs." That means He has no hands and legs like us. Because we have got material hands and legs, but the... "He saw; therefore there was creation." Therefore His seeing power existed before this material creation. So it is natural that He has no material hands and legs. So when it is denied that "He has no hands and legs," it is to be understood that He has no material limited hands and legs, but He has spiritual.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu concludes, therefore, that cid-ānanda*-teṅho, tāṅra sthāna, parivāra. Therefore anything of Kṛṣṇa, or anything of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is spiritual. Spiritual. Deha. Deha means body. His body is spiritual, His abode is spiritual, and His paraphernalia, parivāra, His friends, His mother, His father, His beloved-everything spiritual. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. He's expansion of all spiritual. Tāṅre kahe-prākṛta-sattvera vikāra. And Śaṅkarācārya says that "The Absolute is imperson, but when He comes, appears, He assumes a form which is in the modes of goodness." He does not say, of course, in the modes of ignorance. Modes of goodness. No. When Kṛṣṇa comes, He has nothing to do with modes of goodness even. What is this goodness here in this material world? This is also matter. So there is no value, even goodness. One has to transcend the modes of goodness. That is transcendental, or aprakṛta.

*tāṅra doṣa nāhi, teṅho ājñā*-kārī dās

*āra yei śune tāra haya sarva*-nāśa



*So again He supports Śaṅkarācārya, that "It is not his fault. He had to do it under the superior order to explain the Vedic literature in an impersonalist way. But those who are not expert, if they hear the commentary of Śaṅkarācārya, Śārīraka*-bhāṣya, then he is doomed." In other words, those who are actually aspiring for being elevated in spiritual science, they should avoid to hear any commentary which is impersonal. Any commentary. Then he is doomed. If we follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, then any impersonal commentary means, if we hear... Because we are not expert. We are not expert. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī means neophytes, neophytes who are not conversant with the conclusion of the Vedas. They have got some, I mean to say, faith. That's all. But faith can be changed. Any... If a person, strong in arguments and strong in presenting things in jugglery of words, oh, the neophyte, his idea can be changed. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu warns, therefore, in the Vaiṣṇava philosophy that "You should not worship any other demigods." It does not mean that you should show disrespect to demigods. No. That is not. But because he is in the lower stage, if he is allowed to worship or to show respect to the demigods, he will think that he is also like Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa is another demigod, and this Candra is another demigod, Śiva is another demigod." Just like some foolish persons, they propagate that "Whatever deity you worship, oh, that is God." Even, they say, if you worship a cat or a dog, that is also God. So therefore there is stricture. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also, mām ekam, "Simply unto Me, one," Kṛṣṇa says. Because one is a neophyte, he can be turned, his faith can be disturbed at any moment; therefore in the beginning one has to, I mean to say, pin his faith only in Kṛṣṇa, mām ekam. Otherwise, he cannot make progress. And when one understands Kṛṣṇa, janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9], in truth, then he can understand other things also.



*Āra yei śune tāra haya sarva*-nāśa. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu warns that "Anyone who hears Śaṅkara's bhāṣya, Śārīraka-bhāṣya, he is doomed."

*prākṛta kariyā māne viṣṇu*-kalevara

*viṣṇu*-nindā āra nāhi ihāra upara



*Prākṛta kariyā māne. Prakṛta means material. "If somebody thinks that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, His body is material, that is the greatest offense." The greatest offense is that... To accept a material thing as God, that is the greatest offense, and God..., and to accept a material thing as God or to accept God as material. Just try to understand. Just like they are preaching that "Anything you worship, that is God," or "God is also material. When He comes, when He appears, He is also material." So these kinds of conclusion is the greatest offense. Viṣṇu*-nindā āra nāhi ihāra upara. Blasphemy. So this should be avoided.



*īśvarera tattva*-yena jvalita jvalana

*jīvera svarūpa*-yaiche sphuliṅgera kaṇa



*Now, tattva, the Absolute Truth, He is comparing, just like blazing fire. Absolute Truth is blazing fire and, jīvera svarūpa*-yaiche sphuliṅgera kaṇa, and the living entities, they are just like sparks, sparks of the fire. We have seen fire, blazing fire, and when fire is blazing, we can see the sparks and the original fire.



*jīva*-tattva-śakti, kṛṣṇa-tattva-śaktimān

*gītā*-viṣṇupurāṇādi tāhāte pramāṇa



*Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "Jīva*-tattva, the living entities, they are never the energetic; *they are energy." Energetic and energy. So how it is so? The evidence is from Bhāgavata, Viṣṇu Purāṇa and Bhagavad*-gītā. Because one has to give evidence. How do you say that jīva-tattva, the living entities, they are not the Supreme? Caitanya Mahāprabhu sa..., they are not su... Not to say, I mean to say, speak of Supreme, they are not even of the same category. Because there are different categories. Viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva-there are so many categories. So He says that "Jīva, the living entities, they are in the categories of energy. They are not energetic." Energetic and energy, you should try to understand. Just like the fire, fire and its heat. Heat is the energy, and the fire is the energetic. Similarly, the Supreme Lord, He is the energetic, Supreme Person, and we, the living entities, we are energy. But as you cannot separate energy and energetic separately... Wherever there is energy, wherever there is fire, there is heat also. You cannot separate the fire... So as soon as we are separated, that is our conditional state. How we are separated? Just like the sparks of the fire, as soon as he's come out of the fire and falls down on the ground, it loses its illumination immediately. Immediately. That illuminating spark which was dancing with the fire, as soon as falls down, it becomes black, charcoal. It is just like carbon. So, so long with the fire, it is just like, as good as fire, illuminating. So our position is like that. We are sparks, energy. As from the energy of the fire, there are so many sparks dancing, similarly, we are all sparks of the Supreme Lord. But as soon aw we come out of the fire, as soon as we want to become independent of the Supreme Absolute Truth, our that spiritual energy becomes almost extinguished. It is never to be extinguished, but it appears, it appears. Just like fire covered with ashes. So again, when ashes are removed, the fire comes. So our position is like that. We are now covered by the ash of this material energy and, as soon as this will be removed... The removal process is Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa-ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing process. As soon as we are completely cleansed, we are as good, I mean, as illuminating as Kṛṣṇa.



So this is the process. We shall study again tomorrow. Thank you very much. (end)



670224CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.118-121

-

San Francisco, February 24, 1967



(incomplete lecture)

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya, from different quotations of *Vedas*, He establishes that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. He's not imperson. And so far Śaṅkarācārya is concerned, he was ordered to preach Māyāvāda philosophy by the Supreme Personality of Godhead for the time being. It is not that this is the only process for realizing the Absolute Truth.



There is a very nice story in this connection. There was a physician and his servant. So one day the physician was called by some person to treat his horse. So when the physician came, he asked, "What is the matter?" He says that "The horse has suddenly swollen his throat. So please treat." Then the physician took a hammer and strongly struck the swollen portion, and it was at once cured. The servant saw, "So this is the process of curing swollen parts of the body." So on that very day, he resigned his service and he thought that "Now I have learned how to cure swollen parts of the body," and whenever he was called to treat such disease, he used to hammer over that swollen part and the patient died. So when he came to his former master, "Sir, you cured that horse, the swollen part, by beating hammer, but when I treat, it dies, the patient dies. What is the matter?" So he explained, "You nonsense, the swollen is not cured by beating. That was a special case. The horse took a squash while he was in the garden, and he could not swallow it up. Therefore it was swollen. So I struck therefore, and it was broken, and the same thing, his swollenness, cured. But you foolish, you are simply striking on swollen parts?"

*So this is there. Śaṅkarācārya took a special measure to convert the Buddhists to come to Vedic process because at that time everyone became atheist, following the Buddha philosophy, void. Therefore he had to preach that "Yes. It is void, but that is truth. That void is truth, and this material manifestation, nirvāṇa, that is false. Therefore Lord Buddha taught you that 'Finish this, these material activities, and your miseries will be solved.' " Śaṅkarācārya said, "Yes, this is all right, but there is Brahman." But he did not describe the Brahman, whether He has, He is person or He has got pastimes, He has got many planets and there are many devotees, because those fools were not able to understand. Therefore he took for the time being. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, while criticizing, I mean to say, Śaṅkarācārya, He is always taking care that "It was not the fault of Ācārya Śaṅkara, because he's Lord Śiva, and he cannot make any mistake, but he was ordered to do so for the time being. Actually, Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, His body is spiritual. He is person. The difference is that He's sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. And so far the living entities are concerned, they are His energies." Energies.

So the distinction between energy and energetic we have discussed several times. Energy is almost the same qualitative as the energetic. The same example, that the sun planet is hot; therefore the energy of the sun planet, sunshine, it is also hot. Sunshine, the sun is illuminating; *therefore the energy of the sun, sunshine, it is also illuminating. So there are so many qualitative equality with the supreme, I mean to say, living entity. But Śaṅkarācārya's statement that "We living entities, we are God, and now we are illusioned in māyā. As soon as we become free from this māyā, we become God," that is not fact. You do not become God, but you are already in godly quality, qualities, to some extent, not fully. So when you are free from these material clutches, you attain your original quality, spiritual quality. And that spiritual quality you can serve. Because service means the person who is served, he is also person, and the servant is also person. Otherwise there is no question of service. Service, whenever we say service, there must be a person to take, to accept the service, and there must be one person who renders the service. Therefore dvaita*-vāda, duality, the, this predominator and the predominated.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving evidence from Bhagavad*-gītā:

apareyam itas tv anyāṁ

prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām

*jīva*-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*Now, apareyam, iyam. Before this verse, Lord Kṛṣṇa has described that "Earth, water, fire, air and ether, they are My different separated energies, and beyond this separated energy, there is another superior energy. This, these energies are inferior, and there is another superior energy." So therefore jīva, jīva, the living entities, they are described in the Bhagavad*-gītā as energy, not the energetic.



viṣṇu-śaktiḥ para prokta

kṣetrajñākhya tatha para

*avidya*-karma-samjñānya

tṛtiya śaktir isyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



So... What is this sound? (rumble in background, buzz) Eh?



Devotee: Motor. Someone's running some kind of machine. It's interfering.



*Prabhupāda: Oh. All right. So He's quoting another verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa, where it is stated that viṣṇu-śaktiḥ para prokta: [Cc. Madhya 6.154] "The energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is also transcendental." Energy, that means of the same quality. The same example: Just like sunshine and the sun, they are of the same quality, similarly, the energy of the Supreme Lord, because the Supreme Lord is all spiritual, therefore His energy is also all spiritual. So we are the energy of the Supreme Lord. We are also all spiritual. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ para prokta kṣetrajñākhya tathā para. Kṣetrajñā-śaktiḥ. Kṣetrajñā-śaktiḥ means the living entities. So they are also transcendental, superior. Avidya*-karma-samjñānya tṛtiya śaktir isyate. And this material energy, it is the product, product of avidya. Avidya means ignorance or nescience.



Now, the next question will be, "Whose ignorance?" As soon as we say "ignorance," there must be somebody who is ignorant. So whose ignorance? Now, we find the supreme living entity is Kṛṣṇa, and we, the subordinate living entities. So who is ignorant? Ignorant is the living entities, not all living entities, but there is, I mean to say, tendency of becoming ignorant. Ignorant or forgetfulness. Ignorant, we are not, but sometimes we forget, just like under some diseased condition we forget. Or forgetfulness is the diseased condition. Just like a madman. He forgets his identity. He forgets the identity of his family. Either you take this forgetfulness is madness or due to madness, he's forgetful, whatever you say. Similarly, the, this forgetfulness is also energy, another energy. Then whose energy? Avidya. This is living entity's energy. The Māyāvāda philosophers, they cannot answer. They claim that "We are God," but when they are asked, "Why you have become dog?" they say, "We do not know." But here is the answer. They hide the reason. They know, and because they have to establish the Māyāvāda philosophy that "There is no God. We are all God," therefore they pretend that "We do not know."

*The real fact is that because we are, although we are energies, therefore we are prone to be in the darkness of ignorance. Just like the same example. It is very easy to understand that the sunshine and the sun, both of them are illuminating and warm, but there is cloud, and the cloud cannot cover the sun. The cloud can cover the sunshine. This is a fact. Everyone can understand. When there is cloud... Suppose immediately there is cloud, say, two miles or three miles above the surface. So we do not see the sun or the sunshine. Does it mean the cloud has covered the sun? No. Sunshine is so great that cloud's father's, there is no capacity of the cloud's father to cover sun. It is not possible. Therefore ignorance... Here it is stated, avidya*-karma-samjñānya. This ignorance cannot cover God. That is nonsense. Ignorance covers the God's energy, living entity. Therefore we say that "We are God, but now we have become dog." That is another ignorance. He's never God. He's the energy of God. This is the difference between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. We should always know that we are energies of God, and because we are energies, we are, there are so many things qualitatively equal. Just the same example: The warmth and the illumination of the sunshine and the sun planet is practically the same, but the sun is never covered by cloud, but the sunshine is covered-sometimes, not always. Just like you see that the sunshine is..., the immense sunshine all over the universe, a part of the sunshine is covered, not all; similarly, a part of the energy, living energy, is covered by this māyā, and not all.

*Therefore there are millions and billions of liberated souls above this material world, just like there is millions and billions of miles' sunshine above the cloud. You go by airplane above the cloud. Oh, the cloud is, appear to be very insignificant. But sunshine? Oh, so nice, sunshine. Similarly, when you are above this material world, jyotir gamaḥ... Jyotir gamaḥ. Tamasi mā. The Vedānta, the Vedas inform you that "Don't remain in this darkness. Just try to get out of it." Jyotir gamaḥ. Similarly... Just like the same way, airplane. As soon as you penetrate the cloud and go to the sky, you'll see: "Oh, there is immense sunshine." But while you are in, within the covering of the cloud, you say, "Oh, there is no sunshine today." We see as soon as we go out, "Today is very bad." The day is very good, but you are in the cloud. Therefore you say, "It is very bad." So similarly, those who are in the clutches of māyā, for them, this world is very bad. You see? But those who are above this māyā, it is pleasant because it is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. So if you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the cloud cannot touch you and if your former, your original... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). You become always joyful. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati: [Bg. 18.54] "One who is brahma-bhūtaḥ, he never laments or never aspires anything for material enjoyment." Samaḥ sarveṣu: "And he becomes universal. He sees everyone on the same level: 'Oh, they are my brothers. They are part and parcel of my father. They are my brothers.' " Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So,

viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-saṁjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



*So this avidyā, this ignorance, this forgetfulness, is another energy, another energy. So just like a cloud... This is also another energy of the sunshine. It is not different. When the sunshine warms the sea water, it evaporates and becomes cloud. So therefore cloud is also another energy. So similarly, this material energy is also energy of God, but it cannot cover God. That is the difference. God is never covered by ignorance. This is nonsense. Those fools and rascals say that "God... We are God. We are now covered." It is the most rascaldom. How? If we are God, how we can be covered by ignorance? Then what is your value of your becoming God? You are not God. You are... This is very nicely explained here. Try to understand. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "Living entities, they are energy of God. They are never God." The Śaṅkarācārya's theory is nullified by evidences from Vedic scripture, just like Bhagavad*-gītā, Viṣṇu Purāṇa. So never claim that "We are God." That is most darkest part of your ignorance, when you say that "I am God." There is neither voidness; neither you are God. You are eternal, perpetual blissful, but your blissful is now covered by this māyā. You get out of it, be one with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Your life is successful. This is this theory.



*hena jīva*-tattva lañā likhi' para-tattva

*ācchanna karila śreṣṭha īśvara*-mahattva



*Oh, Caitanya Mahāprabhu regrets that such a great difference between God and the living entity, and Śaṅkarācārya has described that we are God? That means he has diminished the opulence and value of God. Suppose if I call a third*-class man "His Majesty," then what is that? This word, "His Majesty," is misused. Just like they are saying, daridra-nārāyaṇa. The foolish Ramakrishna mission has, I mean to say, discovered a word, daridra-nārāyaṇa, "poor Nārāyaṇa." Nārāyaṇa, who is the husband of many thousands of goddess of fortune, He has become poor. Just see the theory. You can ask Nikhilananda what is the meaning of daridra-nārāyaṇa. They have discovered. Vivekananda has discovered. Nārāyaṇa has become poor. When you ask him, "Why do you call daridra-nārāyaṇa?" they will explain like that, "Because Nārāyaṇa is there, therefore Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." Just see. Suppose a rich man comes into this store, so he becomes poor just like us. Because he has kindly come here in this store, so because we are all poor men, he'll also becomes poor man? This is the reason. But these are all nonsense. Nārāyaṇa never becomes poor. The poor, poverty-stricken man, all these things are for the jīvas, the living entities. Nārāyaṇa is never poor. Nārāyaṇa is never under ignorance. Nārāyaṇa never becomes dog. We become dog. We become cat. You should always... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore rejects, that "This sort of philosophy propounded by Śaṅkara is a great mistake because he has minimized the value of the Supreme Lord. By making a dog a god, he has insulted God. Therefore this Māyāvāda philosophy is the most offensive activities of the living being." So you should be very, very careful, very careful. Hena jīva-tattva lañā likhi' para-tattva. "And I have just studied the ordinary living entities, and I am speaking of the Absolute Truth? Oh, this is the greatest nonsensical activity." Ācchanna karila śreṣṭha īśvara-mahattva: "By this the glorification of the Lord has been diminished, and therefore it is a great offense."



*vyāsera sūtrete kahe 'pariṇāma'*-vāda

*'vyāsa bhrānta'*-bali' tāra uṭhāila vivāda



*Now, vyāsera sūtra means Vedānta*-sūtra. Vedānta-sūtra begins from the very beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Janmādy asya yataḥ means the source of all emanations. Now, this is clear, janmādy asya yataḥ, that "Brahman is that from which, from whom, everything emanates." That does not mean... Pariṇāma-vāda means by-product, by-product. Just like you... This is a tree, and this flower is the by-product. So suppose the flower is there and the flower becomes dried up and falls down. That does not mean the tree is lost. There are thousands and thousands of flowers are coming out, out of..., fruits and flowers, but the tree is there. Similarly, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. Although this material manifestation, this world, has emanated from Brahman, that Supreme Brahman, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that does not mean he is lost. It is material conception. Just like you get some paper and you make something from that paper. That original paper is lost because it is material. But spiritually they cannot be lost. There are many, many material examples also. Just like sun. The sun, we are getting heat from sun from millions and billions of years... (incomplete) (end)





710217CC.GOR

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.119

-

Gorakhpur, February 17, 1971



Prabhupāda:



viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-samjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



*So we are discussing three kinds of energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yesterday the question was, some gentleman, that whether the ultimate truth, Absolute Truth, is a person or imperson. There are many impersonalists, and there are many personalists also. The personalists, impersonalists, and the localized Paramātmā worshipers, they are worshiping the same Absolute Truth in different features. Impersonal Brahman and localized Paramātmā and Personality of Godhead, They're one and the same. It is the process of realization only, that somebody is realizing the Absolute Truth as imperson and somebody is realizing the Absolute Truth as all*-pervading Paramātmā, Antaryami, and some persons are realizing the Absolute Truth as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. But they are advaya-jñāna, identical, the same thing. It is our power of perception only that makes the difference. The object is the same. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



They're sounded in different ways: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. But the object is the same.



*So there is no quarrel between the impersonalists or personalists or the Paramātmā-ists. There is no question of quarreling. The example is present daily in our daily experience. Just like the sunlight, sun, sun globe, and the sun-god. Within the sun globe, there is sun-god. So which one is the chief? That we have to consider. The sun-god or the sun globe or the sunshine? Everything is light. Sunshine is also light, sun globe also light, and the original source of this light, the sun-god, is also light. So sunshine is impersonal, sun globe is localized, and the sun*-god is personal. If you be satisfied that "I am in the sunshine," be satisfied. That is called sāyujya-mukti. The sunshine means combination of different molecular shining parts. Any scientist knows it that what is the sunshine. The sunshine appears to be a homogeneous thing, but actually, in minute analysis it will be found that there are innumerable shining sparks, molecular sparks only-their combination. (baby making noise) (aside:) They're disturbing. (speaks to some men in Hindi)

So those who are merging into the Supreme Absolute, the jñānīs... Their ultimate goal is to merge into the Absolute Truth in His impersonal feature. That's all right; you can do so. That is also not this material; that is also spiritual. That is not material. If you want to merge... Generally, people think that is the ultimate goal. But that is not the ultimate goal. In the *Īśopaniṣad* you'll find that it is said that "Please wind up Your effulgence so that I can see the actual face." The same example that the sunshine is light. There is no doubt about it. This is different from darkness. This material world is darkness. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. The jyoti, the brahmajyoti... It is recommended in the *Vedas* that you try to approach the jyoti; don't remain in this darkness of material world. That is the injunction of *Vedas*. And the whole process of emancipation is to, how to approach that Brahman effulgence.

So those who are jñānīs, those who are trying to understand the Absolute Truth, jñānī...

*catur*-vidhā bhajante māṁ

(janāḥ) sukṛtino 'rjuna

ārto arthārthī jijñāsur

jñānī ca bharatarṣabha

[Bg. 7.16]



*So jñānī, there are two kinds of jñānīs. One jñānī is trying to understand what is the Absolute Truth, and one jñānī is trying not only to understand the Absolute Truth, but merge into the existence of the Absolute Truth. So according to Bhagavad*-gītā, they are also sukṛtinaḥ. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām. The beginning of bhajana, bhagavad-bhajana... If they are, if persons are pious, they can begin bhagavad-bhajana in four ways. Sukṛtinaḥ. Sukṛtinaḥ means "whose background is pious activities." They can take to bhagavad-bhajana in four stages in life. Ārtaḥ... Ārtaḥ means those who are distressed; arthārthī, those who are poor, need of money; jijñāsuḥ, inquisitive; and jñānī. So the ārtaḥ and arthārthī, they are lower than the jñānī and the jijñāsuḥ. Because sometimes we go to worship Bhagavān in the temple in distressed condition, but as soon as my distress is over, I forget. Or if I get some money, I forget. There is chance. Not that always we forget. But because māyā is very powerful, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14], sometimes we forget. Very rich men, opulent, they don't care for what is God. Generally, we see at, in Europe and America, they don't talk of anything about God. They are busy only how to acquire money and enjoy sense gratification.



*So jñānī, those who are appreciated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. And there are other four classes of men, they are called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Duṣkṛtina means miscreants. They're simply busy in sinful activities: "Any way, bring money; *never mind what is the process." Or not that always they get money. But they aspire after material happiness by so many... Just like in Calcutta. The party, Naxalite, they are committing so many sinful activities thinking that by that way they will be happy and they will get the political supremacy. They are called duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Four class, the four classes of men who are pious, whose background is piety, they go to worship Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, there are four classes of men who are called duṣkṛtina, very sinful, simply miscreants, and mūḍha, rascals, no knowledge, completely in ignorance, almost like animals, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, and narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. Because lowest of the mankind and highest of the mankind, what is the difference? The highest of the mankind means one who knows what is the value of life. And the lowest of the mankind is one who does not know the value of life. Na mam duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā. And there are so-called learned scholars also, whose knowledge has been taken away by the influence of māyā. They're supposed to be very learned scholar, but they do not know that what is the aim of knowledge. They are called māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. And these classes of men are called āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Asuric bhāva means denying the existence of God, or defying the supremacy of God. That is āsuri bhāva. Just like example... We have got many examples in our śāstras-Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa, Rāvaṇa. They were very powerful materially, but their only fault was that they denied the supremacy of God. Therefore they are called asuras, rākṣasas. Āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. So four classes this way, four classes that way.

*So jñānī... Jñānī is accepted... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that koṭi*-karmī-madhye eka 'jñānī' śreṣṭha. There are karmīs, innumerable, millions and millions, all karmīs. Karmīs means they are working hard simply for sense gratification. And according to Bhagavad-gītā, they are called mūḍhas. These are the statement in the śāstras. So we have to explain the śāstras. So karmīs are called mūḍhas because they are working so hard, but do not know what is the aim of their life. Simply going on working very hard. And in the modern education, in the modern civilization, people are simply taught to work very hard and gratify senses. That's all. "Get money and gratify your senses." That is the modern mode of civilization. But according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, an authority, Ṛṣabhadeva, He says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. He says that this human form of life is not meant for working very, very hard simply for sense gratification. That is the business of the hogs, viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the animal which eats stool. You have seen in the villages or sometimes in the cities, there are hogs. Whole day they are busy: "Where there is stool? Where there is stool?" And they become fatty also, very, by eating stool. And as soon as they become fatty... Not fatty. Even the hogs in the cub state, they're very much passionate, sense gratification. Perhaps you have seen. So to work very hard and get some means of sense gratification and live like hogs without any discrimination of eating and sleeping and mating, that is called hog life. The hog has no discrimination. By nature, there are examples. One who has no discrimination in the matter of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. Just like hog. They have no discrimination. Mother or sister or what is to be eaten, there is no discrimination. Anything they can eat, anything they can do, or any female they can mate, never mind. That is hog's life.

*So actually, we are experiencing... Not only at the present moment, millions of years ago, when Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His sons... That is long, long ago. Ṛṣabhadeva was the father of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this planet is called Bhārata*-varṣa. Formerly this planet was known as Ilavati-varṣa. After the emperor Mahārāja Bhārata, this planet is called Bhārata-varṣa, this whole planet. Bhārata-varṣa means the whole planet. And gradually it is being diminished. Just like in your experience the Bhārata-varṣa, the so-called Bhārata-varṣa is now diminished: Pakistan has gone away. So millions of years ago the same thing was that: a class of persons, they are just like hogs. It is not that a newly... Now, in this age, the hog persons are in great number, but there were... Just like Rāvaṇa. There was only one Rāvaṇa during Lord Rāmacandra's days. At the present moment there are many Rāvaṇas. That is the difference. But the Rāvaṇa is always there, Rāvaṇa-class men. Rāvaṇa-class men means they want to take away the goddess of fortune, Sītā, from the custody of Lord Rāmacandra. That is their business. They do not know that wealth, riches, they are fortune, they are the property, they are enjoyable by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the enjoyer. But Rāvaṇa-class men, they think that "I am enjoyer. Get out Sītā from the custody of Rāmacandra. I shall enjoy." But the result is the Rāvaṇa-class of men becomes vanquished.

*So this process of civilization at the modern times, Rāvaṇa*-class, that "Take money which is the property of the Supreme Lord and enjoy," this is going on. "No God. Godless. Defy God. I am God. Who is God? I am so powerful." These things are also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, Sixteenth Chapter. They don't believe any creator. So these are called āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ civilization will not make you happy. The āsuri-bhāva... Because āsuri-bhāvam means everyone wants to enjoy. I want to enjoy, you want to enjoy. So there must be clash, there must be friction between you and me, because both of us, we are trying to enjoy. But that is not our position. The enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa. Enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, as we sung this song, jaya rādhā-mādhava... Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-bihārī. He is enjoying in Vṛndāvana. His only feature is... That is the real picture of God: simply enjoying. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. That is the real picture of God. The Vṛndāvana-līlā of Kṛṣṇa is the perfect presentation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's simply enjoying. And all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, the gopīs, the cowherd boys, Mahārāja Nanda, Yaśodā, everyone is simply anxious how to make Kṛṣṇa happy. They have no other business. The inhabitants of Vṛndāvana has no other business than to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa has no other business. Yaśodā-nandana brajajana-rañjana. He's acting as the little son of Yaśodā, and His only business is how to please the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. Yaśodā-nandana brajajana-rañjana. And yāmuna-tīra-vana-cārī. And He's wandering in the forest of Vṛndāvana on the bank of the Yamunā. This is the actual picture of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But Brahmā, Indra, big, big demigods, they are also bewildered. They are sometimes mistaken, that "How this cowherd boy can become the Supreme Personality of Godhead?" Just like some of us think like that. But those who are thinking like that, for them also, there is manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's supremacy. Brajajana-ballabha giri-vara-dhārī. Although he's engaged in pleasing the inhabitants of Vraja, but when there is need, He can lift up the Govardhana Hill-at the age of seven years. Or He can kill the Pūtanā at the age of three months. And so many demons used to visit daily. Kṛṣṇa used to go with the calves and cows, with His friends in the forest, and every day Kaṁsa used to send one kind of demon to kill them-Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Dhenukāsura, so many.

So although Kṛṣṇa is playing just like a cowherd boy, His supremacy as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is never absent there. That is God. God is not created by meditation. God is God. God is never manufactured. We should know this. God is God, and we living entities, we are living entities. That is the Vedic version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Equality, when there is question of equality, the equality is that Kṛṣṇa, or God, is nitya, eternal; *similarly, we are also eternal. So equality in eternity. Kṛṣṇa is conscious, cetana, and we are also conscious. That is equality: equality in quality. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is so many things equality. But that equality is just like the ocean and a drop of water of the ocean. If you analyze the ocean, you'll find the same chemical ingredients, and if you analyze the drop of ocean, you'll find the same chemical ingredients. That is equality. But you cannot think that the drop is equal to the ocean. That is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is vibhu. God is great, and we are anu, infinitesimal. Kṛṣṇa is infinite, we are infinitesimal. So when there is question of merging into the existence of the Supreme, that means we remain in the effulgence, Brahman effulgence, as the minute particle of Brahman. There is dimension. That is mentioned in the śāstras: keśāgra-śata*-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. One ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of hair. That minute particle, cetana. So there is... Anantāya kalpite. There are innumerable such particles. That is the formation of nirviśeṣa-brahman. That is nirākāra-brahman. Brahman, but there is no visible formation. But there, there is formation. Unless there is formation, how the material formation can take place? Just like you have got formation; therefore your shirt and coat has got a formation. You have got hands; therefore your shirt has hands, your coat has hands, according to your formation. So this material body is called vāsāṁsi, garments, or dress, shirt and coat. The mind, intelligence and ego, that is shirt, subtle body; *and this gross body, kṣitir*-ap-tej-marud-van (?). So there are two kinds of shirt and coat, and within that, dehino 'smin yathā dehe... [Bg. 2.13]. The minute particle, that is called dehi, who has formed this body.

*So it is very easily understandable. Unless the original, the spiritual spark, has form, how this form can take place? This is shirt and coat. Just try to understand. If you have no form, then how the shirt and coat can take form? From argument. So therefore, living entity is not formless, neither Kṛṣṇa, or the supreme living entity, is formless. Both of them form, having form, but not this form. This is temporary form. The real form is spiritual form. Therefore nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Second Chapter that "Both you and Me and all these soldiers and kings who have assembled before us, they were existing in the past, they are existing now, at present, and they will continue to exist in the future." So they... From our present experience we can see that all the living entities are in form. Therefore, if they existed in the past, they existed in the past as forms, and they'll continue to exist in the future as forms, there is no question of formlessness. There is no question of form... But because we cannot see the form in these material eyes... Just like there is a form in the body, but when that spirit is passing from this body, we cannot see. A medical man cannot see because he hasn't the eyes to see. But it is not that a jīvātmā is formless. No. He hasn't got the eyes to see. Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Just like I am seeing you, you are seeing me. But what I am seeing? I am seeing your body, shirt and coat. You are seeing my shirt and coat. But when I pass away from this body or you pass away from this body, neither I can see you, neither you can see me. So because we cannot see, because we have no such knowledge, therefore we say sometimes that formless. Just like people say generally, "A point has no length, no breadth," because he has no measuring instrument how to see the length and breadth of the point. That is deficiency of knowledge. But anything has length and breadth. That is a fact.

So nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This Vedic version, Upaniad, means that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person and we are also persons. We are... What is our position? Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. We are dependent persons, and He is the maintaining person. So your position is always dependent. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is the version of Lord Caitanya. And Kṛṣṇa also says. All the śāstra says. Here also, we are reading that,

viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-samjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



*So we are one of the energies of the Lord, marginal energy. Marginal energy means if I desire... Because I have got little independence... Because Kṛṣṇa is fully independent, sva*-rāṭ. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu avijñaḥ sva-rāṭ. Kṛṣṇa is sva-rāṭ, means "fully independent." But we are Kṛṣṇa's minute part and parcels; *therefore we have got the independence quality, but not full independence. We are controlled. Just like you claim to be independent, Indian nation. But that does not mean that you are fully independent, each of you. You are dependent on the government. These things are very easy to understand. Similarly, a living entity has got independence, but not full independence. He cannot do anything without the sanction of God. That is his dependence. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭa. "I am sitting there." The living entity and the Supreme Person as Paramātmā, both of them are sitting in this body. That is explained in the Upaniṣad. Two birds are sitting in the same tree. One bird is eating, and one bird is witnessing. Anumantā upadraṣṭā. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumantā. Because we have tried, we have taken the opportunity to live independently, Kṛṣṇa or the Paramātmā is so kind that He has given... Just like a child is playing, and sometimes he is going to catch the fire, and the parents are obstructing, similarly, Kṛṣṇa, being the supreme father, He is always guiding. Although we are given the freedom to enjoy this material world, but without His sanction, you cannot enjoy, you cannot touch anything. But He is giving the facilities. Because kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, we wanted to enjoy, to lord it over this material world, He has given us chance, "All right, enjoy. Enjoy to your best capacity." But He is witnessing. Witnessing means you want something, Kṛṣṇa is supplying. The material agent, Kṛṣṇa's prakṛti, or the material nature is supplying you ingredients. But Kṛṣṇa is sanctioning, and you are desiring. You are desiring, "I want this." Kṛṣṇa says, "No, you will not be happy," but you insist: "No. I want this." "All right. You take this." Kṛṣṇa's material energy is there; *He is supplying the ingredients. "All right. Take these ingredients. What do you want?" "I want a three*-hundred-story skyscraper building." "All right. Take it. Take it." The ingredients... The sky... You cannot create the ingredients. The ingredients is kṣitir-ap-tej-marud-van (?). You take earth, water, fire, air, and combine it and make a skyscraper building. But the ingredients does not belong to you. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṣitir-ap-tej-marud-van (?). Prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. Bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. "They are My property. That is Mine. Actually it is Mine." You cannot create water, you cannot create fire, you cannot create earth. It is God's property. You take it and satisfy your senses. That's all. That's your business. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmaṇī sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti is supplying. But how prakṛti is supplying? How the material nature is supplying you ingredients? Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. "Under My direction." So what is the difficulty? And how can you become God? How you can become greater than God? This is all foolishness. You are completely under the control. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You are completely under the prakṛti, this material nature.



*So our position is to be dependent on the supreme living force, God or Kṛṣṇa. That is our position. And He is supplying everything as we want. Because God is not poor. He is our father. Just like rich father, there is no insufficiency. In a rich family, the father is very rich, and the sons, they can draw anything from the rich father. Similarly, we can draw anything from Kṛṣṇa, the supreme father. But our, this so*-called independence for sense gratification, will not make us happy. That is the position. You can independently try to become Brahmā, what to speak of this prime minister or this king or... You can become Brahmā, Indra, Candra. You can become. They are also living entities in higher position. Just like your president, he is also an Indian, but in higher position. That's all. Your prime minister, he is also Indian. Similarly, all these demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, they're demigods, they are highly posted as servant of God. But just like a foolish man thinks a constable in the street is the supreme power without knowing the background of the constable's position, similarly, those who are foolish persons, they think demigods are the supreme. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Hṛta-jñānāḥ means lost of all intelligence.

So if we actually try to understand Kṛṣṇa from all points of view on the basis of Vedic literature, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam... [SB 1.3.28]. And Kṛṣṇa personally says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Kiñcid. "Nobody. Nobody is greater than Me." How a foolish man can say that "I am greater than Kṛṣṇa"? So we have to give up all these foolish ideas. We have to take the real fact as it is. And then we become Kṛṣṇa conscious and our life becomes successful. That is our propaganda.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



670318CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.149-171

-

San Francisco, March 18, 1967



Prabhupāda: ...Māyāvādī sannyāsīs of Benares. There are two kinds of Māyāvādīs. The word Māyāvādī is very significant. I saw yesterday in your iṣṭagoṣṭhī you have tried to understand what is this Māyāvādī. Māyāvādī means materialist. Māyā, this matter, the external energy, the inferior energy, and those who want to stick to this inferior energy, never mind what class of philosopher, what section of philosophers they belong, if their idea is only within the boundary of this material energy, they are called Māyāvādī. They have no information of the spiritual energy. They are called Māyāvādī. So chiefly the impersonalists and the void philosophers, they are called Māyāvādī, because they have no other information. They want to simply negate, nullify, but they have no positive information, so they are called Māyāvādī. So the Śaṅkarites... Śaṅkarites, of course, they give positive information. Brahma satya jagan mithyā. They say that this world is false and Brahman is reality. But because we want reality in variety, therefore impersonal philosophy, although we take it as a matter of sectarian philosophy, it does not appeal to the heart because by nature we want enjoyment. And whenever there is question of enjoyment, there must be variety. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So philosophically or theoretically, we may accept voidness, negation, out of frustration. When we are frustrated in these material varieties we adopt the suicidal policy, "Let me commit suicide, finish." This is called Māyāvāda. Actual spiritual variegatedness, unless one is informed about it and one is situated in spiritual varieties, there is no satisfaction.



*So the Māyāvādī philosophers of Benares, after hearing the explanation of Vedānta*-sūtra from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they were very much satisfied. Sei haite sannyāsīra phiri gela mana. Their mind turned. "Oh, this is the real explanation." Kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa nāma sadā karaye grahaṇa. Now they also began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

*eimate tāṅ*-sabāra kṣami' aparādha

*sabākāre kṛṣṇa*-nāma karilā prasāda



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu excused all these offenders. Anyone who is godless, he is offender. So when they chanted Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa and accepted the Vedānta philosophy according to the explanation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He excused them. That is the significance of Lord Caitanya. He is very merciful. He excuses. Without excuse, how He can deliver the fallen souls of this age? Their condition is very precarious. Their duration of life is very small and they are not very intelligent, very slow to understand their importance of spiritual life. And even they are little advanced, they are under the clutches of so many so*-called bogus societies. So therefore their condition is very precarious and... So there is no other alternative than to excuse them. Caitanya Mahāprabhu excused them.



tabe saba sannyāsī mahāprabhuke laiyā

bhikṣā karilena sabhe, madhye vasāiyā



Then all the sannyāsīs, placing Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the middle... According to Indian system of dining... You are accustomed: they sit in a line. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu was requested to sit in the middle, and thus they took prasādam.



tabe saba sannyāsī mahāprabhuke laiyā

bhikṣā karilena sabhe, madhye vasāiyā



bhikṣā kari' mahāprabhu āilā vāsāghara

*hena citra*-līlā kare gaurāṅga-sundara



*So after taking prasādam, He came back to His place. And for Him it was a great victory that He conquered the mind of the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs by explanation of Vedānta*-sūtra. So His, I mean to say, friend, Candraśekhara... Candraśekhara and Tapana Miśra and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were very much pleased. Caitanya Mahāprabhu had only three or four followers at Benares. Of course, when He was on the street, hundreds and thousands of people gathered round Him. But actually, in His residence there were three, four followers only: Tapana Miśra, Candraśekhara Ācārya, Sanātana Gosvāmī, and one Maharastrian brāhmaṇa. They were very much pleased, naturally. Their Lord was victorious in that great assembly of sannyāsīs. And naturally, they were very much pleased.



prabhuke dekhite āise sakala sannyāsī

prabhura praśaṁsā kare saba vārāṇasī



*Naturally, He attracted the attention of many other sannyāsīs, and they began to come and see Him and offer their respects. And throughout the whole city of Benares His name was immediately advertised: "Oh, such a great sannyāsī has come. He has explained Vedānta*-sūtra in a different way, which has captured the mind of all other Māyāvādī sannyāsīs."



So because Benares is a city of pilgrimage, it is not ordinary city, mostly the person who reside in Benares, they are retired life for cultivating spiritual consciousness, but they are almost cent percent impersonalists. Prabhura praśaṁsā kare saba vārāṇasī

*vārāṇaṣi*-purī āilā śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya

*purī*-saha sarva-loka haila mahā-dhanya



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu visited this city of Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. By His mercy all of them became glorified.



lakṣa lakṣa loka āise prabhuke dekhite

*mahā*-bhiḍa haila dvāre, nāre praveśite



So many thousands of people gathered before His house, and they wanted to see Him, but due to the crowd, some of them could not enter into the house. Then,



*prabhu yabe yā'na viśveśvara*-daraśane

lakṣa lakṣa loka āsi' mile sei sthāne



*But Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the temple of Viśveśvara. At Benares, the most famous temple is Viśveśvara, Lord Śiva's temple. Because this place, Benares, is the place of Lord Śiva. Just like Vṛndāvana is the place of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Ayodhyā is the place of Lord Rāma, so there are different places in India. So Benares is the place of Lord Śiva, and he's known there as Viśveśvara. It is very old city, Kāśī-the real name is Kāśī*-and it is coming from the Satya-yuga. It is not new city. It is very old city. Satya-yuga. Mahārāja Hariścandra, he was the king of this, and Hariścandra happens to be previous to Lord Rāmacandra. So it is very old city. Viśveśvara sthāne.



*snāna karite yabe yā'na gaṅgā*-tīre

*tāhāñi sakala loka haya mahā*-bhiḍe



So when Caitanya Mahāprabhu goes to the Ganges to take His bath, and after taking bath He used to visit the temple of Viśveśvara in the morning, so at that time hundreds of people gathered round Him.



*bāhu tuli' prabhu bale*-bala hari hari

*hari*-dhvani kare loka svarga-martya bhari'



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special feature, as you see in the picture, He would simply raise His hands and ask anybody to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And people will, in the crowd, they will also respond to Lord Caitanya. So in this way, at Benares He was enjoying.



*bāhu tuli' prabhu bale*-bala hari hari

*hari*-dhvāṇī kare loka svarga-martya bhari'



And the sound of "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hari bol," that become... According... There are two slogans. One Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And another, short, is Hari bol, Hari bol. You can practice also that. Hari bol.



Devotee: Hari bol.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Hari bol. That is a shortcut of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Hari bol. Hari bol means "the sound of Hari, or the Lord." Hari bol. So whenever there was some greeting, Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to answer, raising His hands, "Hari bol."



*bāhu tuli' prabhu bale*-bala hari hari

*hari*-dhvāṇī kare loka svarga-martya bhari'



loka nistāriyā prabhura calite haila mana

*vṛndāvane pāṭhāilā śrī*-sanātana



*Now, and at this time Sanātana Gosvāmī arrived to see Caitanya Mahāprabhu after retirement from his government service. So He taught him for two months about the science of devotion and the principles of devotion. We have discussed to a certain extent, and we shall again discuss. Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught personally Sanātana Gosvāmī what is Kṛṣṇa*-what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what is the position of the living entity, what is this world. All these things He has very nicely taught Sanātana Gosvāmī. And Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, these two brothers are authorities of the disciplic succession of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



So,

loka nistāriyā prabhura calite haila mana

*vṛndāvane pāṭhāilā śrī*-sanātana



*Now after teaching Sanātana Gosvāmī, He asked him that "You go to Vṛndāvana." Because He was returning to Jagannath Purī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu authorized... You have seen the picture of Vṛndāvana in that catalogue? What is that book you have brought from library? No. That's all right. Oh, you have forgotten your book? Library book? Huh? Who brought that book which is lying in my room, apartment? Anyway, there is a picture of Vṛndāvana. That picture, there is a temple. This temple was first constructed by Sanātana Gosvāmī. That is the oldest temple in Vṛndāvana, not less than five hundred years old. And it was desecrated by the Aurangzeb, Emperor Aurangzeb. Then another new temple is now constructed where Madana*-mohana is residing. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu authorized Sanātana Gosvāmī to go to Vṛndāvana and excavate the city. Before Lord Caitanya, the places of pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa was forgotten. People knew only that "In these quarters Kṛṣṇa was born and His pastimes was played here." But no particular places were excavated. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu... After Caitanya Mahāprabhu sent Sanātana Gosvāmī, the importance of that tract of land known as Mathurā-Vṛndāvana became very important. And the importance of that city is due to this Sanātana Gosvāmī, because Sanātana Gosvāmī was authorized to go there and establish temples. So after Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, hundreds and thousands of temples were constructed, and there are at least five thousand temples now, after Sanātana Gosvāmī.



*rātri*-divase lokera śuni' kolāhala

vārāṇasī chāḍi' prabhu āilā nīlācala



At Benares He was overcrowded with persons. Always there was tumultuous sound, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu left Benares and came back to Jagannath Purī. Jagannath Purī and Benares is not less than about eight hundred miles distance. So in those days there was no railway, no other conveyance. Caitanya Mahāprabhu had to travel through the jungles, and He came back to Jagannath Purī.



ei līlā kahiba āge vistāra kariyā

saṅkṣepe kahilāṅ ihāṅ prasaṅga pāiyā



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu thus came back, and the author says that after this incident we shall discuss in another chapter about the activities of Lord Caitanya, and so far His Benares visit was concerned, this is the end.



*ei pañcatattva*-rūpe śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya

*kṛṣṇa*-nāma-prema diyā viśva kailā dhanya



*In this way, Pañcatattva, these five pictures you have seen: Śrī*-Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda Śrī-Advaita Gadādhara Śrīvāsadi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. They inaugurated this movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness five hundred years before, and it is predicted here that this movement will sanctify the situation of the whole world.



*ei pañcatattva śrī*-kṛṣṇa...

*kṛṣṇa*-nāma-prema diyā viśva kailā dhanya



He has already impregnated the seed. Just like Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda. In 1896 he sent the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message to McGill University. That book you have seen. The letter was there. And these are coincidence. Now, after so many years, a servant of that disciplic succession has come here again to preach. So these things are significant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu practically sown the seed of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and it is spreading, and it is sure it will spread. Now it has come to your country, and I am sure the students who are taking very seriously about this movement, they will spread in the western world.



*So, mathurāte pāṭhāila rūpa*-sanātana. Now this is incidental, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu sent Sanātana Gosvāmī to Vṛndāvana, and other Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī...

*mathurāte pāṭhāila rūpa*-sanātana

*dui senā*-pati kaila bhakti pracāraṇa



*Senā*-pati means these two brothers, Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, were appointed as the commander in chief, commander in chief in this fighting with māyā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means it is declaration of fighting with māyā. Māyā is killing all the poor conditioned souls, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu declared war against māyā by spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the commander in chiefs are Rūpa-Sanātana. In other words, if anyone wants to be expert in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to fight with māyā, they must follow the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī.



There is a very nice song sung by one poet, Vaiṣṇava poet. He's singing like this:

gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka-śarīra

hari hari bolite nayane ba'be nīra



He's aspiring that "When I shall loudly call 'Lord Caitanya, Gaurāṅga'?" Gaurāṅga is Lord Caitanya. "And my body will be shivering. And when I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, tears will flow down from my eyes."



gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka-śarīra

hari hari bolite nayane ba'be nīra



*Āra kabe nitāi*-cānder koruṇā hoibe: "And when I shall be favored by Nityānanda Prabhu?" Āra kabe nitāi-cānder koruṇā hoibe, saṁsāra-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be: "When I shall be detached from material enjoyment?" Viṣaya chāriyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana: "And when I shall be detached from this material enjoyment, my mind will be purified. My mind will be freed from all contamination of material dirty things." Kabe hāma herabo śrī-vṛndāvana: "And at that time it will be possible to see Vṛndāvana." Rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti. Now, here the author, I mean to..., the singer says that "When I shall be too much devoted to the principles of Rūpa Gosvāmī so that I'll be able to understand what is the pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa?" In other words, if we want to understand Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya philosophy, then we should try to follow the instruction left by Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī. They are the commander in chief in this movement.



*Nityānanda*-gosāñe pāṭhāilā gauḍa-deśe. So Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were sent to Vṛndāvana, and Nityānanda Prabhu was sent to Bengal, that "You go and preach there." Teṅho bhakti pracārilā aśeṣa-viśeṣe. And in Bengal this Caitanya philosophy is taught by Nityānanda Prabhu and His disciplic succession.

āpane dakṣiṇa deśa karilā gamana

*grāme grāme kailā kṛṣṇa*-nāma pracāraṇa



And He Himself went to the southern part of India, and He preached this Kṛṣṇa consciousness from village to village, town to town.



setubandha paryanta kailā bhaktira pracāra

*kṛṣṇa*-prema diyā kailā sabāra nistāra



*Setubandha means Cape Comorin. He went up to Cape Comorin, and to northern India, up to Vṛndāvana. I do not know He went to the Punjab side, but up to Vṛndāvana, Delhi, and beginning from Delhi, up to the, practically the whole length of India, He traveled, through Maharastra and other provinces. Kṛṣṇa*-prema diyā kailā sabāra nistāra. So practically the whole of India was surcharged with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness during the starting of this movement in India by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*ei ta' kahila pañca*-tattvera vyākhyāna

*ihāra śravaṇe haya caitanya*-tattva-jñāna



Now the author summarizes that "These are some of the activities of Lord Caitanya, and one who will hear these activities, he will be elevated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the philosophy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu."



*caitanya, nityānanda, advaita*-tina jana

*śrīvāsa*-gadādhara-ādi yata bhakta-gaṇa



*Now the author humbly presents himself that "Lord Caitanya, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu, these five personalities, I offer my respectful obeisances unto the feet of these five personalities." Yaiche taiche kahi kichu caitanya... "Therefore if I have got faith in these five personalities, then it will be possible for me to describe something about Lord Caitanya." Because he is writing this book, it is description of Lord Caitanya. So he is humbly presenting himself before... This is bhakti*-mārga. He is not proud that he is very learned man, he can very nicely comment. No. He is just trying to follow the footprints of his predecessors. This is the way of disciplic succession.



*śrī*-rūpa-raghunātha-pade yāra āśa

*caitanya*-caritāmṛta kahe kṛṣṇadāsa

[Cc. Adi 1.110]



He's summarizing, at the end of each chapter he says, "My respectful obeisances are unto Rūpa Gosvāmī and all other Gosvāmīs, so that I may be able to describe the activities of Caitanya Mahāprabhu."



Thank you very much. (end)





710213CC.GOR

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 6.149-50

-

Gorakhpur, February 13, 1971



Prabhupāda:



aho bhāgyam aho bhāgyaṁ

*nanda*-gopa-vrajaukasām

*yan*-mitraṁ paramānandaṁ

pūrṇaṁ brahma sanātanam



I think I shall speak in Hindi? What is that? I shall speak in English? Then they will take advantage of. That is... Why you have gone?



Yamunā: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. So this was a part of the prayer offered by Brahmājī when he offended on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. The incident... Perhaps you know that Kṛṣṇa was a cowherd boy in Vṛndāvana. (speaks in Hindi with some Indians) Why you are back side? You can come this side. So Brahmājī is praising the fortune of the residents of Vṛndāvana, vrajaukasām, headed by... Vrajaukasām means the residents of the Vrajabhūmi, headed by Nanda Mahārāja. Aho bhāgyam aho bhāgyaṁ nanda*-gopa-vrajaukasām, yan mitraṁ paramānandaṁ brahma. Kṛṣṇa was there.



So Brahmā is admitting that this Kṛṣṇa is parabrahman sanātanam. So we have to take evidence from the authorities. There are twelve authorities according to śāstra. Brahmā is one of the authorities. Twelve authorities means,

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kapilaḥ kumāro manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

(balir) vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



Svayambhūr nāradaḥ. Svayambhūḥ is Brahmā; Nārada; then Śambhu, Lord Śiva. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Kapila. Kapila is incarnation of God, Kapiladeva, the propounder of the Sāṅkhya philosophy. Kumāra, the four Kumāras, ever brahmacārī. And Manu, Vaivasvata Manu, the father of Mahārāja Ikṣvāku. And Prahlāda, the son of Hiraṇyakaśipu. The father was atheist and the son was a devotee, great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Then Janaka Mahārāja, the father of Sītādevī. And Bhīṣma, the grandfather of the Pāṇḍavas. Prahlādo janako bhīṣmaḥ. Then Vaiyāsaki, Śukadeva Gosvāmī; and Yamarāja, they are authorities.



*Now, here the Brahmā, the first authority, he is admitting Kṛṣṇa as Brahman, pūrṇa*-brahma sanātanam, pūrṇa-brahma, bhagavān. Brahman realization, there are stages, three stages of Brahman realization: first, impersonal Brahman, then localized Brahman, then full Brahman. Localized Brahman is Paramātmā, who is situated in everyone's heart. The example is given: just like the sun. The sun is one and the sun is the abode of the sun-god, Vaivasvata. In the Bhagavad-gītā you have to admit,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manu ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*So this Vivasvān, the sun-god, he heard from Kṛṣṇa for the first time about the yoga system stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa spoke and the sun*-god heard; *therefore he is a person. And the sun*-god's abode is the sun planet. And from the sun planet, the effulgence, the sunshine, is coming. By this example one can understand what is Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān-tattva-vastu, the Absolute Truth. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Absolute Truth... (aside:) Not like that. Don't sit... Not like that. Why don't you tell him? The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases. The first realization is impersonal Brahman, the next, higher realization is the Paramātmā, antaryāmī, and the ultimate realization is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



This is Absolute Truth in three phases.



*So here the Absolute Truth, when He is realized as the Supreme Person, as Brahmā is realizing, yan*-mitram... He is realizing that Kṛṣṇa, who is playing as a cowherd boy in Vṛndāvana, and He has become the most intimate friend of the residents of Vṛndāvana, headed by Nanda Mahārāja... Nanda Mahārāja was the zamindar rāja. He was vaiśya. He had 900,000's of cows, and he was the head of Vṛndāvana. All other cowherds men were his tenants or friends or family members. So Kṛṣṇa automatically became their very, very dear friend. That is the significance of the residents of Vṛndāvana. They... Their love for Kṛṣṇa was so ecstatic that they did not know anything except Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Brahmā says, aho bhāgyam aho bhāgyam: "How fortunate these residents of Vṛndāvana are that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has become their friend." And Kṛṣṇa is pūrṇa-brahma sanātanam, not that He has assumed a body like a human being and He is imperson. No. Just like Māyāvādī philosophers, they take it, they concoct like that, that "Ultimately the Absolute Truth is impersonal, but when He descends..." I do not know how the impersonal can be "He." So that theory is refuted hereby because it is the statement of Brahmā, and he says that Kṛṣṇa is pūrṇa-brahma sanātanam.

Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

*apāṇi*-pāda-śruti varje prākṛta pāṇi-caraṇa

punaḥ kahe śīghra cale kare sarva grahaṇa



*This is the process is describing a spiritual understanding, with reference to the Vedic injunction. Now, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving Vedic reference. He says, apāṇi*-pāda. This is a reference from the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad. In the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad there is statement, impersonally, but referring to the person, transcendental person. The mantra is like this:



*apāṇi*-pādo javano grahītā

paśyaty acakṣuḥ sa śṛnoty akarṇaḥ

sa vetti vedyaṁ na ca tasyāsti vettā

tam āhur agryaṁ puruṣaṁ mahāntam



*Puruṣam. Puruṣam means person, but the Vedic mantra begins, apāṇi*-pāda: "Person, but has no leg and no hand." There are two kinds of statements: that He is person, puruṣa, mahānta, the greatest person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is a person; *but apāṇi*-pāda, but He has no legs and no hands. So how is that? A person has no legs and no hands, and still, He accepts whatever we offer? Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tad aham aśnāmi, bhaktyā upahṛtam aśnāmi: "Anyone who offers Me anything," patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam [Bg. 9.26], "with devotion," bhaktyā... The very word is bhaktyā. That means Kṛṣṇa is transcendental person, and the Vedic mantra confirms. When the Vedic mantra says, apāṇi-pāda, "no hands, no legs," that is not imperson. "Person, but His hands and legs are not like us," that is apāṇi-pāda. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains that. Apāṇi-pāda śruti varje prākṛta pāṇi-caraṇa: "When the Vedic mantra says that 'The Absolute Truth has no legs and no hands,' that means that the Personality of Godhead's hands and legs are not material." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's explanation.



*apāṇi*-pāda śruti, veda-mantra, varje prakṛta pāṇi-caraṇa

na kahe śīghra cale kare sarva grahaṇa



"And although the Vedic mantra says that 'The Absolute Truth has no legs, no hands,' still, it confirms that 'He can accept whatever you offer, and He can walk more speedily than anyone.' Then He walks; at the same time, He has no legs. And He accepts your offering; *He has no hands." What does it mean? Apparently it is contradictory. If He has no leg, then how He can walk more speedily than anyone? These are Vedic mantras. "Nobody can capture Him, He is walking so speedily." But if He has no leg, how He is walking? But that, Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains that varje prākṛta pāṇi*-caraṇa: "This means that the Supreme Personality of Godhead has no material body."



*In the Kūrma Purāṇa it is said that the Supreme Personality, the Parabrahman, has no distinction between His body and self. There is no... Absolute means there is no duality as we have got duality-"I am," the soul, and this body, they are different. Therefore śāstra says, yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke: [SB 10.84.13] "If anyone accepts this body as self..." This body is made of three dhātus: kapha, pitta, vāyu. I am not this. And Bhagavad-gītā also says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ...

[Bg. 2.13]



*So dehi. Dehi means possessor of this body, the owner of this body. So owner of this body is different from this body. But in case of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu*-tattva, there is no such difference, the self and the body, no difference. That is confirmed in the Kūrma Purāṇa. Unfortunately the Māyāvādīs, they, either due to their poor fund of knowledge of the śāstras or by their whims, they say that "Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, when comes, or the Absolute Truth when He descends, He assumes, He accepts, a material body." That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. It is not that Kṛṣṇa accepts a material body. No. Kṛṣṇa has no such distinction, material world. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Because I present myself, descend Myself as a human being, the mūḍhas, or the rascals, they think of Me or deride at Me." The Māyāvādīs, they will never worship the transcendental form of the Lord. They'll not worship. They will worship the imperson. And Kṛṣṇa has said, kleśo adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Of course, impersonal, personal, is the same Absolute Truth. But if you try to reach the Absolute Truth through His impersonal attachment, then it will be more troublesome. The jñānīs, those who want to understand the Absolute Truth by their material, imperfect knowledge, how... Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Our manipulation of the senses is not possible to understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



*The Vedic mantra also it is said, nayam ātmā pravacanena labhyaḥ: "You cannot realize the ātmā, you cannot be self*-realized, simply by talking. You may be very big speaker, nice speaker, but that is not the process-simply by speaking very nicely you can understand the Absolute Truth." Nayam ātmā pravacanena labhya na medhayā: "Neither you can understand the Absolute Truth because you have got a very nice brain, a great scientist." Then Sir Isaac Newton would have discovered what is God, or Professor Einstein or Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose, they could have understand. No, they cannot. Because they have very nice, finer tissues of the brain, it does not mean. It is a different process. It is a... To understand God or Kṛṣṇa, it is not material process. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Only through devotional service He can be known. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Kṛṣṇa is covered by the curtain drawn by yogamāyā; *therefore Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood by everyone, neither His teaching, Bhagavad*-gītā, can be understood without becoming a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: [Bg. 4.3] "Because you are My very dear friend, therefore I shall speak to you." Rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: "Without you, nobody can understand." Kṛṣṇa was a military man. He was not a brāhmaṇa, neither a Vedantist. You cannot expect a military man, a kṣatriya, to be highly learned in Vedic scriptures. That is not possible. They hear from the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas, they are expected to be highly learned scholars in Vedas because that is their department. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. Brāhmaṇa... Therefore we call brāhmaṇa, "paṇḍita, paṇḍitajī." Paṇḍitajī has never seen the pages of Vedas, but still, he is going on under the name of paṇḍitajī. So that kind of paṇḍitajī not wanted. Actually a brāhmaṇa means he is truthful. And one of the greatest commentator of Bhagavad-gītā, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa, he says truthful means one should be truthful even to his enemies. Sometimes we have to hide something from the enemies. That is diplomacy. But Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa says, "A brāhmaṇa should be so truthful that he will disclose everything to his enemy also." Satyam. Titikṣa ārjavam śuci śama dama-these are the qualifications. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42].

So without this brahminical qualification one cannot understand the Vedic knowledge. Therefore it is stated sometimes that a śūdra is prohibited from reading Vedas. That does not mean that reading of Vedic culture or Vedic knowledge is monopolized by a certain class of men. Not that. The idea is... Just like in our ordinary educational system, there is some prohibition that unless one is graduate, he cannot be admitted in the law college. That is not a prohibition; *that is the necessary qualification to understand. Similarly, to understand the Vedas, the necessary qualification is that one must be a qualified brāhmaṇa. Not that Mr. Max Muller, he has got little knowledge of Sanskrit and he translates. That kind of translation is no use, just like so many commentaries on the Bhagavad*-gītā without becoming a devotee of Kṛṣṇa is useless. It has no meaning, because Kṛṣṇa says that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] "Only through devotional service one can understand Me." How a nondevotee can understand Him? He has no scope to enter into the knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. So first qualification is that he must be a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be revealed.

*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata there is a verse,

*athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-

*prasāda*-leśānugṛhīta eva hi

*jānāti tattvaṁ (bhagavan*-mahimno)

na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan

[SB 10.14.29]



*"My dear Lord, one who has a little, I mean to say, favorable connection with Your lotus feet, he can understand You." Athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-prasāda: "One who has got a little prasāda from Your lotus feet, such person can understand You." Prasāda-leśānu..., jānāti tattvam: "He can understand what You are." Kṛṣṇa says that,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*To understand Kṛṣṇa is not very easy job. Kṛṣṇa says, "Out of many millions of men, one is trying to become perfect in this human form of life." Not everyone is trying. First of all one has to become brāhmaṇa or acquire the brahminical qualification. That is the platform of sattva*-guṇa. Unless one comes to the platform of sattva-guṇa, there is no question of perfection. Nobody can understand, nobody can achieve perfection on the platform of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, because one who is addicted with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, he is always very greedy and lusty. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. One who is infected with the material qualities of ignorance and passion, he is lusty and greedy. That's all. Therefore you will see, generally people are very much lusty and greedy. They are accumulating money, crores and crores; *still, they are not satisfied. In Western country we see very usually. There are many, many workers, working very hard from very poor state. Just like Henry Ford, Mr. Rockefeller, they started life from a very humble state, but they accumulated immense wealth, and still, they were not satisfied. In our country also there are many Birlas and such, accumulating money, money, money. They are greedy because infected with the quality, modes of nature, ignorance and passion. Vaiśya means passion and ignorance, kṣatriya means passion, and brāhmaṇa means goodness. These are the different qualities. So one has to come to the platform of goodness. Then he has to transcend the platform of goodness, come to the pure transcendental platform, vāsudeva, sattvaṁ*-viśuddham, sattva-guṇa. In this material world, sattva-guṇa is also sometimes mixed with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. That is the nature. So one has to transcend the platform of sattva-guṇa. Śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. That is the vasudeva platform, when Kṛṣṇa appears.



*So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu [Bg. 7.3]. So generally people are addicted, infected with the qualities of ignorance and passion. How he can understand Kṛṣṇa? It is not possible. So one has to engage himself this devotional service. Then you can... You may argue that "How these Europeans and Americans...? They are supposed to be in ignorance and passion. How they are coming to the platform of transcendental platform of pure goodness?" That is possible. That is possible by the execution of Bhāgavata*-dharma. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. Tato rajas-tamo bhāvāḥ. There are verses in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. One has to hear. Therefore śravaṇa and kīrtana, hearing and chanting, is very important, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, especially hearing and chanting of Kṛṣṇa. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Simply by discussing and hearing and reciting Bhagavad-gītā purely, not by interpreting wrongly... As it is. As Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām [Bg. 18.65], you have to accept that. You cannot change that. You cannot say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa; *it is the Kṛṣṇa's self and this and that." So śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. One who hears Bhagavad-gītā as it is or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from devotees... Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Because simply by hearing he achieves the result of pious activities... And Kṛṣṇa says also in the Bhagavad-gītā that "One can be engaged in My service, in devotional service, who is freed from all contamination of sinful life."

*yeṣāṁ (tv) anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmāṇam

*te dvanda*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ



Unless one is freed from all contamination of sinful life, one cannot concentrate in the devotional service of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says.



*So the process is, as it is recommended in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ: simply you sit down and hear what Kṛṣṇa says. Don't comment wrongly, whimsically. Don't gratify your senses. Submissively, namanta... As Caitanya Mahāprabhu also recommends from Bhāgavata, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Just be submissive, bhavadīya-vārtām, and try to hear Kṛṣṇa submissively. Then you'll benefit. If you make your own commentation, then you will be wrongly directed. You have too... Therefore Kṛṣṇa said,

*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kālena

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



*Because the paramparā system was lost, therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "The system recommended in the Bhagavad..., is lost off. Therefore I am speaking again to you the same yoga system." So one has to receive the knowledge of Bhagavad*-gītā by the paramparā system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna heard Bhagavad-gītā. And how he understood Bhagavad-gītā? He understood Kṛṣṇa as a person. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. That is real Bhagavad-gītā understanding. And Arjuna said, sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava. As Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], so he accepted that. That is Bhagavad-gītā reading, not that "It is not to person Kṛṣṇa; *it is to His self," and this and that. No. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is.



*So it is very unfortunate that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, accepted by all the ācāryas, not only at the present age, previously also... Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, they are all great ācāryas. And in the recent years, Śaṅkarācārya, he also admitted. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya-all these authorities, they are accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then how is that-a less intelligent class of men, they are commenting differently? That is not good. They may comment, they go on talking all nonsense, but no sane man will accept them. That is a different thing. But those who are sane, they should judge over this, that "Why we should deny, that 'God is impersonal'? God is person. Kṛṣṇa came." Kṛṣṇa exhibited His godly potencies, energies, when He was present. There is no... In the history you won't find another second person like Kṛṣṇa in the whole history of the world. Apart from other points of view, Bhagavad-gītā, that is admitted, spoken by Kṛṣṇa, such deep, profound knowledge-there is no second imitation or second copy like Bhagavad-gītā in the whole world. That is admitted by all scholars, all religionists. Therefore He is pūrṇa-jñāna, pūrṇa-brahma. Bhagavad-gītā is pūrṇa-jñāna. The Bhagavān's one qualification*-He is fully wise. Nobody is wiser than Him. That is one of the qualifications. Nobody is richer than Him, nobody is powerful than Him, nobody is influential than Him, nobody is beautiful than Him, and nobody is renouncer than Him. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya. That will be explained.

*So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, admitted by all ācāryas. And on the basis of that authority, we are preaching all over the world that "You are searching after God? Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. In the Bhāgavata has given different list of different incarnation of God but ultimately concludes that ete cāṁśa*-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "All the incarnations, they are parts or parts of the parts." Aṁśa means part, and kalāḥ means part of the part. "But svayaṁ pūrṇa-bhagavān, ṣoḍaśa-kala pūrṇa, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa-bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa." That is the verdict all Vedas, all śāstras. So we should also accept in that light. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. And Kṛṣṇa also says personally, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of even Brahma, Śiva, and Viṣṇu also." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. So from any...

*Now, here Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that Kṛṣṇa is person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is person, but He is not a person like us. That is difference. But less intelligent persons, they think Kṛṣṇa, as soon as He is a person, "He is a person like us." That is a mistake. He is not a person like any one of us. Therefore He is confirmed by the Vedas, apāṇi*-pāda javano grahītā: "This Absolute Truth has no leg or hand; still, He can walk very swiftly and He can accept anything you offer." That means His hands and legs are not like ours. That is transcendental. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is trying to explain before Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya that the Absolute Truth is a person, a person like you and me. Cetana... Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the Supreme Person, the chief person. We are all also individuals, Kṛṣṇa is also individual, but He is the chief and we are subordinate. That is the way.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] God is not poor man, but you are mismanaging. (Hindi) (end)



710214CC.GOR

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 6.151-154

-

Gorakhpur, February 14, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Ataeva śruti kahe brahma*-saviśeṣa: God, Brahma, the great. Brahma means the great. Bṛhatvād bṛhannatvāt. The Absolute Truth is the great and can expand also unlimitedly. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Rūpam: He has got His transcendental forms, ananta, unlimited. But they are all one. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam. Ādyam, the original; Purāṇa, the oldest; *puruṣam, person. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam. Although He has got innumerable forms, they are advaita, they are one. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ādyam, original; Purāṇa, the oldest; *and puruṣam, the person. Nava*-yauvanam. The oldest, but nava-yauvana, just beginning of youthful life. That is the description in the Brahma-saṁhitā. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirms that brahma saviśeṣa. Saviśeṣa means person with varieties of energy. Not imperson. Ataeva śruti kahe. According to Vedic evidence from the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad, apāṇi pāda, He has proved that when the Upaniṣad says that "The Absolute Truth has no hands and legs, this means that He has no material hands and legs. But He has His hands and legs." (shouting in background) (aside:) Who is shouting? Why they do not come? Why they are shouting there? All right.



Then he says... Śrī Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura comments in this connection that,

*ādau brahma prākṛta hasta*-pāda naya baliyā

*pare śīghra cale emana sakala*-vastu grahaṇa kare



*In the beginning, the Veda says that the Supreme Personality of Godhead has no..., not personality. Brahma. He is person, of course. We say personality, but this personality is not material personality. Sighram cale evam sakala*-vasta grahana kare: "He walks very quickly and He can accept whatever is offered to Him." So these very statements in the Vedas confirm that He has hands and legs, but not hands and legs like us. Apakrta. That we cannot understand. Aprakṛta. Prakṛta and aprakṛta. Prakṛta means things which are created, and aprakṛta means which are never created, sanātana. That we cannot understand. As soon as there is statement of the Absolute Truth's form, transcendental form, we think that He has a form like us. How it can be? That is quite reasonable. God cannot be possessing a form which is like us. No. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. He descends, He comes down, as He is, ātma-māyayā. He descends, He comes down, as He is, ātma-māyayā. We accept this form given to us by the material energy. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. According to the association of particular type of guṇa, quality, we get a form. But Kṛṣṇa is not within the influence of the material qualities. His form is different.



*ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya pūrṇa vigraha yāṅhāra

*hena*-bhagavāne tumi kaha nirākāra?



*The discussion was going with Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, a follower of the Śaṅkarite philosophy. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given Vedic evidences that the Supreme Personality of Godhead has His form, transcendental form, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha, but His form is not material. That is the opinion of Śaṅkarācārya. Nārāyaṇa para avyaktāt: "Nārāyaṇa, He is transcendental to this creation." So in... With reference to this material creation, He is impersonal. But when we speak of the spiritual world, He is a person, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya pūrṇa, pūrṇānanda vigraha yāṅhāra.



*Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that brahma is full of six kinds of opulences. Pūrṇa. Ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. And ānanda, and full of bliss. There is an English word, I think: "Variety is the mother of enjoyment." Enjoyment, ānanda means enjoyment. Enjoyment cannot be impersonal; *there must be varieties. That is enjoyment. You have got experience that when there is a bunch of flower of different colors it is very enjoyable. And if there is only rose only, although rose is very nice flower, it is not so pleasing. With rose, some green foliage, some grass, inferior quality, it looks very beautiful. So when there is question (of) ānanda... Because Kṛṣṇa has got form, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], eternal, cit, full of knowledge, and full of ānanda, bliss. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt, Vedānta-sūtra says. The Lord is ānanda-mayo. This māyā-prātyaya, there is controversy between the Śaṅkarites and the Vaiṣṇavas. They say that māyā-prātyaya... This prātyaya, from Sanskrit verbal root, is affixed in two cases-when there is excess and when there is transformation. So either cases, the ānanda, or the blissful nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is extensive, unlimited. Prācurya. Prācurya means extensive. So ṣaḍ-aiśvarya pūrṇānanda vigrahaḥ yāṅhāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that one who has got transcendental form, full of ānanda... Hena bhagavāne tumi kaha nirākāra. And you think of such Personality of Godhead as impersonal, how it is possible? Without being person, there cannot be ānanda anubhava. Just like we are persons. We can feel pains and pleasure. Unless one is person, there is no question of enjoying ānanda. So that is His challenge, that if the Supreme Personality of Godhead is full of ānanda, as it is stated in all the Vedic scriptures, especially in Vedānta-sūtra, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt, then how He can be imperson? There is no possibility. And He gives other Vedic evidences also. Apāṇi-pādo javano grahītā, that He has no hand; still, He accepts whatever is given to Him. So there is no possibility of the Absolute Truth's being imperson. He is person. Hena bhagavāne tumi kaha nirākāra.

svābhāvika tina śakti yei brahma haya

niḥśaktika kari' tāṅre karaha niścaya



The impersonalists say that the Brahman has no enemy. The difference between Vaiṣṇava philosophy... (aside:) What they are talking? They are not coming here?



Devotee: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Then who is talking? Now, the Māyāvāda philosophers, their point of view is the Absolute Truth is imperson and there is no different energy. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's challenge is that Absolute Truth has got multi*-energies. That is also stated in the Upaniṣads: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The Absolute Truth has multi-energies, innumerable energies. And such energies have been divided into three divisions. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva..., na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Why He has to do? Because His energies are working. Therefore, He has energy. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā: [Bg. 9.4] "The whole universe in its avyakta-mūrti, nonmanifested form, I am." Ahaṁ tatam idaṁ sarvam. Aham. "But at the same time, aham is there." Aham means "I." And the word avyakta is there, "nonmanifest." So Kṛṣṇa is manifest. Then what is this nonmanifest? The nonmanifest is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Mayā tatam idam. "By Me." If I say... I have got a big business, big factory. If the proprietor says, "I am all-pervading over this factory," that is right. Suppose one man has got a factory, say Birla. They say "Birla Factory," "Birla Jute Mill," "Birla..." Birla's name is there, although Birla is a person, he's not there. It is very easy to understand. Birla is a person. He is not present in that factory, but everyone says "Birla's factory." That means Birla's money, Birla's energy is there. If there is any loss in that factory, the suffering goes to Birla. Or if there is any gain in that factory, the profit goes to Birla. Therefore Birla's energy is there in the factory. Similarly, the whole creation is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. "I am all-pervading." But that does not mean in everything... Everything there is Kṛṣṇa, His energy. He is represented by His energy. This is called simultaneously one and different. Acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, this philosophy of Lord Caitanya. Acintya, simultaneously one and different. The Birla factory is not different from Birla because his energy is working there. At the same time Birla is not there. Similarly, in this material manifestation, everything is God. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ.



*In the Bhāgavata there is statement by Nārada. Idaṁ hi viśvam, the whole universe is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But itara, but still, different from Him. This philosophy is very sound philosophy, simultaneously one and different. That is the statement in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am expanded; *I am all*-pervading." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni: [Bg. 9.4] "Everything is resting on Me." Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ: "But I am not there." The Māyāvāda philosophy is "If God, or Brahman, is all-pervading, then why there should be another, separate Brahman?" No. That is also confirmed in the Vedic literature: pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. Pūrṇasya. Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Absolute Truth, is complete. And if complete is taken from Him, still He is complete. This is material idea, that if the complete has spread all over, then where is the separate existence of the complete? That is material idea. But the spiritual statement is, "If complete is taken from the complete, still the complete is complete." That you have to understand. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya. Here in this material world we have got experience that if I have got one rupee in my pocket and if that one rupee is taken from my pocket or it is expended, there is no more one rupee. It is spent. It is zero now. Or that one rupee has been distributed in purchasing several commodities. So the one rupee is distributed. There is no more separate existence of that one rupee. This is material idea. But according to Vedic scripture, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. If you take one rupee from that one rupee, still that one rupee is there. That you cannot adjust in your teeny brain. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, acintya. It is not accommodated in our teeny brain. Therefore those who are teeny brain, or poor fund of knowledge, they think that when the Absolute Truth is distributed, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, then where is the person? But that is not the conception. The conception is He is unlimitedly powerful, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya pūrṇa, with all power. He can create so many personalities Himself. Just like Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself into 16,000 forms. When He married 16,000 wives, He expanded Himself in 16,000 forms. When He was dancing in rasa-līlā, He expanded Himself. Each gopī was thinking that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing with me." So that is Kṛṣṇa's, or God's, unlimited potency. Not that if He expands, He becomes zero.

*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā also, it is stated, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Although He is living in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He is all-pervading. For example, Kṛṣṇa says,

patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

tad aham aśnāmi

bhaktyā upahṛtam

...tad ahaṁ bhaktyā upahṛtam

aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ

[Bg. 9.26]



Now there are innumerable devotees who are offering Kṛṣṇa with love and faith, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. Just like in this temple, we are offering to the Deity according to the order of Kṛṣṇa some preparation made of patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. So He's accepting. He says that "I accept. I eat." But the atheist class says that He does not eat. Why? If Kṛṣṇa says, "I eat," what the atheist class of people has the right to say that He does not eat? He eats. So now not only in one temple or in one place, but millions and trillions of places, they are offering Kṛṣṇa, devotees. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I eat." So everywhere He is eating. Now, just imagine how He has expanded Himself in millions and trillions of forms. He says, "I eat." And there are millions and trillions of devotees offering Him. Then everywhere He's eating. That's a fact. Yes. He can expand. But that does not mean that He is no more in Goloka Vṛndāvana. He is still there. He has expanded in millions and trillions of forms to accept the offerings of His devotees; *at the same time, He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37].



*Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca, vedeṣu durlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is difficult to be approached by simple understanding of the Vedas. One has to become a devotee. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. It is simple. It is the entrance book for spiritual understanding. It is not very, I mean to say, highly theosophical or theological literature. That highly theological literature is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is the natural commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra. So in the Bhagavad-gītā we get all information how Kṛṣṇa expands Himself. Advaita... Vedeṣu durlabha. Therefore one who does not read Bhagavad-gītā through a devotee... Kṛṣṇa... Just like Arjuna is a devotee. He understands Bhagavad-gītā. Without going through a devotee, nobody can understand God or His statements. Thousands of people for thousands of years, reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know Kṛṣṇa. Is it not a fact? Yes. So because they are not going through the proper channels, they are... Still, vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Simply by trying to understand the Vedic literature, one cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedeṣu durlabha. Durlabha means very difficult to approach. Adurlabha ātma-bhaktau. But ātma-bhaktau, those who are devotees, for them He is very easily accepted. Take for example... Now, you have gone to see a very high officer, say, the secretary of the government. You are waiting. You have sent your card, you are waiting. But you cannot enter the room without being permitted. But an ordinary orderly, his servant, he's thousand times going and coming. There is no restriction for him. He does not require any permission. He goes within because... And the message will come through him. In Dvārakā... Perhaps you have read in the Nectar of Devotion that Brahmā, Indra, they used to come to see Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's orderly... They were offering prayers, and Kṛṣṇa's orderly was requesting them, "Please make no noise." They were offering prayers, Brahmā, Indra, and His personal servant was prohibiting him, "Please do not make noise. Sit down here." This is the position. So vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Kṛṣṇa is not available, not approachable, simply by studying Vedas. He has to be obedient to the orders of the devotees.

Here He says,

svābhāvika tina śakti yei brahme haya

niḥśaktika kari' tāṅre karaha niścaya



*That "Kṛṣṇa has got, by nature, innumerable energies, and they are divided into three: cit śakti and bahiraṅga śakti, antaraṅga śakti, and tatasta śakti." All the... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva. All the śaktis, or energies, they are summarized in three divisions. One is called spiritual energy, and the other is called material energy, and the rest is called marginal energy. In the Bhagavad*-gītā these three energies are stated. Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. "These eight kinds of energies are My separated energies." How separated energies? Try to understand what is separated energy. Just like in the tape record, I sing or speak, it is recorded. But when the tape record plays, I do not speak, I do not sing, but it is my energy. It is working. That is separated energy. And when I speak directly, that is not separated energy. That is also the same thing. So they are from Kṛṣṇa, the whole material... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. "Everything is created from Me. I am the creator of everything." How He is creator? This bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhir mano... These eight separated energies, that is the material energy. And apareyam, they are inferior because they are material energies; *therefore, inferior energy. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām: "Beyond this, there is another, superior energy." Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. "There is another, superior energy." What is that superior energy? Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. These jīvas. So jīvas are energies. How jīvas can claim that they are God? They are energy of God. There is the mistake of Māyāvāda philosophy. Energy and the energetic, although nondifferent, still, energy is not the energetic. Just like this light is emanating from the bulb. So the illumination is there both in the bulb and the light distributed. But you cannot say that this illumination is the bulb. So Kṛṣṇa says that "These are My bhinnā-prakṛti, material energy." The earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence, ego*-the whole material material creation is out of these eight energies. And the living entity, jīva-bhūta, that is parā prakṛti, spiritual energy.



The living entity is also spiritual energy. He has got His two energies, which is also spiritual actually, but it is called marginal because individual. And this individual spiritual energy can select either to live under the material energy or the spiritual energy. Therefore it is called marginal energy. Just like sparks of the fire, it can fall down on the ground and it can remain with the fire. Similarly, we living entities, we are parts and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or we are sparks of the fire. So we can fall down within the material energy and we can remain in the spiritual energy, as we like. So when you keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you live in spiritual energy, and when you are without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you live in material energy. When you live in the material energy, then your the illuminating quality, because you are fire, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that is extinguished almost. Therefore, we are forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa is practically extinguished. And again, the fire, spark, if he falls down on a dry grass, then gradually, the grass becomes blazing. So even if we are... Because in this material world there are three modes of material nature. If we are associated with the goodness quality, then our spiritual energy again becomes blazing fire. From the modes of goodness, purity, knowledge, the brahminical quality... Satya śama dama titikṣa [Bg. 18.42]. When you are put into that..., the dry grass... Although this satya śama dama, truthfulness or controlling the senses, or controlling the mind, knowledge, toleration, these qualities, they are all material qualities. They are not spiritual qualities. Don't think that if one is... One man is very truthful; that does not mean that he has attained spiritual quality. The spiritual quality is different thing. But these material qualities, satya śama dama titikṣa, all these, they can help you. They can help you to be situated in the transcendental, spiritual qualities. But don't think that they are themselves spiritual qualities. No. That is another.

*So we, the sparks of the supreme fire, when we fall down in the dry grass, the spiritual quality or the fiery quality is there still, but it may also extinguish. Therefore, our transcendental position is śuddha*-sattva. We have to always keep ourself in transcendental position by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, always being engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Then we are brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. That is our Brahman situation. Simply realization of Brahman is not all. You have to be always engaged in Brahman activities. Then there is possibility of remaining in the Brahman platform. The Māyāvādī philosophers, as soon as they realize that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, they think that they are liberated. But no. That liberation is theoretical. That is not practical. Practical liberation is when you are situated in devotional service. Then there is no chance of falling down. If you simply think that "I have become Nārāyaṇa," or Nārāyaṇa position, that is falldown. There are innumerable examples. So we are taṭasthā-śakti. The idea is... Taṭasthā means marginal. We can fall down in the material world, and we can raise ourself in the spiritual world. This is our position. But we are energy, not the energetic.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains that,

svābhāvika tina śakti yei brahme haya

niḥśaktika kari' tāṅre karaha niścaya



He is giving evidence from *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*. *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*... There are eighteen *Purāṇas*. There are sattvika, rajasika, tamasika purāṇas. So sattvika Purāṇa is required for spiritual improvement. So He's giving evidence from the sattvika Purāṇa, *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*. What is that?



viṣṇu-śaktir parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-saṁjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate



Viṣṇu śaktir parā proktā. All energies of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, they are transcendental, parā, or aprakṛta, not prakṛta. Just try to understand what is transcendental śakti. Just like transcendental and mundane, or material. Material world is created by the transcendental desire of Viṣṇu. Just like in the Bible it is said, "Let there be creation," and there was creation. And Kṛṣṇa also says that this material... Ekāṁśena sthito jagat.



atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



So ekāṁśena sthitaḥ, by His one part of energy, the whole material creation is there. He says, "I enter into this material world, and by expansion of My one part of energy, this material, whole material creation is there." There are many... Yasmād bhavanti vibhavanti viśanti. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni bhavanti. Yato vā imāni. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. There are many Vedic statements. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. That means the creation of this material world is from the Supreme Lord. Now, that creative energy of Supreme Lord is not material. That is spiritual. The material means the material world is created by the spiritual energy. Therefore, the spiritual energy (was) existing before the creation of the material world. Therefore, Viṣṇu's energy is not material. Viṣṇu's energy is spiritual. Here it is stated that viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. Parā means spiritual; *proktā, "it is said." Kṣetra*-jñākhyā tathā parā. And kṣetrajña means these jīvas. In the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣetrajña... Kṣetra and kṣetrajña. There are two statements in the Bhagavad-gītā, I think in the Thirteenth Chapter, that kṣetra is this body, and the owner of this body, you and me... We are different owners of different bodies. We are kṣetrajña. So the kṣetrajña-śakti... This is also śakti again. It is śakti. It is not the energetic. So this kṣetrajña is also parā, spiritual. It is confirmation of the Bhagavad-gītā, that viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. The Lord's energy is spiritual, and another energy, which is known as kṣetrajña, or the jīvas, they are also spiritual energies. But energy, not the energetic. Kṣetra-jñākhyā tathā parā, avidyā-karma-saṁjñā anyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate.



*But there is another energy, which is... Now, that is also spiritual in the original sense, the material energy, but that is avidyā, spiritual energy covered. Spiritual energy covered by something else. How that something else? That is... Just like sun is covered by the cloud. The cloud is not separate from the sun. The cloud is created by the sunshine, so it cannot be separate from the sun. But its business is to cover the sun. When there is cloud, you cannot see the sun. Similarly, this material energy is not different from God. There is another example. The same electricity, energy, one apparatus is heater and another apparatus is refrigerator, cooler. The energy is the same. The eater is also creation of the electric energy, and the cooler is also creation of the electric energy, but they are working differently, for under different..., for different purposes. Another example can be given that the civil department and the criminal department of the government, the energy of government is there. The government is maintaining both the departments by the finance of the government. It is not that government is not financing the criminal department. The criminal department is also financed by the government. Similarly, this material world is the criminal department. It is also God's energy, but it is covered. Here... Just like what is the difference between criminal department and civil department? In the criminal department there is disobedience of the law of the government. There is nothing but disobedience. The members of the prison house are all disobedient citizens of the government. Similarly, in this material world, this material energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, but here, it is the place for the disobedient part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. Persons who are, I mean to say, very much energetic to forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over this material energy, they are called conditioned soul, or imprisoned. We are all imprisoned within this Durgā. And the superintendent of this durgā, or the fort, is called Durgā. Durgā-śakti. Sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. This material world... But those who have no information how this Durgā is there, how this Durgā is there, they think that by worshiping, by pleasing goddess Durgā, they'll be happy. No. Pleasing means you have to abide by the laws of the durgā, material world. Otherwise, Durgā will take his (her) trident and pierce on the chest of the asura. Durgā is controlling. The asura is also a living entity within this durgā. So those who are asuras... Those who are not cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are asuras. For them, the Durgā's trident is on the chest of the asura. You have seen that picture.

*So you cannot get out of this durgā simply by bribing, by satisfying. You have to satisfy Durgā in a different way, in a different way. Just like... These are very easy to understand, that if you are in prison house, if you satisfy the superintendent of jail, somehow... I have seen in Delhi that one man was... He was a very nice young gentleman, and he was typing. He was typing. So I was... He was a fair gentleman, very nice looking young man. So I talked with him, "What is your case of condemnation coming?" So he acted as a spy in some government secretarial department. So he was put into prison for ten years. But he was educated, he was intelligent, and he pleased the superintendent of jail. Therefore, instead of keeping him in ordinary cell, he was put into the office and type. Now, try to understand. This prisoner, by his satisfying the superintendent of jail, he is little given concession not to be placed in ordinary cell, but he is working (in) the office as a typewriter. Or he is given some... Or there are many political prisoners, they are given first*-class bungalow, first-class residence, and all facilities. But the superintendent of police has no power to release him. That is not possible. That is not possible. Similarly, by bribing or by satisfying Durgā, you can get a comfortable position within this material world, but your real business is how to get out of it. That Durgā cannot give. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. So long you do not come to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa... Mām eva prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Unless you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, there is no possibility of getting out of the clutches of māyā. That is not possible.

So we shall discuss further tomorrow. (end)



710216CC.GOR

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 6.154

-

Gorakhpur, February 16, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu is quoting from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. As I have told you the other day, there are eighteen purāṇas: sattvika*-purāṇa, rajasic-purāṇa, and tamasic-purāṇa. The whole scheme of Vedic culture is to reclaim all fallen conditioned souls to the platform of transcendental realization. That is the scheme. There are different status of human understanding according to the association of the qualities. The living being is just like a spark of the complete fire. Brahman is the complete fire, and the living entities are just like sparks. The equality with Param Brahman and individual living entity is on the qualitative basis. The quality is the same. Brahman, Param Brahman. Jivātmā, Brahman, spiritual, and Paramātmā, or Parameśvara. He is supreme, complete.



*So Viṣṇu Purāṇa is for the persons who are on the platform of sattva*-guṇa, those who are associating with the modes of goodness. This is not correct that everyone is one the same platform. Generally, at the present moment, people are in the platform of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, mixed. So one has to rise to the platform of sattva-guṇa. And then, after transcending the sattva-guṇa, also when one is situated in śuddha-sattva, or pure sattva-guṇa... In this material world, even sattva-guṇa is sometimes contacted with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa; *therefore it is not completely pure. No guṇa is pure. It is mixed*-up always. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So one has to transcend these guṇas; *then God realization, or understanding of Kṛṣṇa, can be achieved. But the devotional service, vidhi*-bhakti, the process of rendering devotional service to the Lord according to the prescribed regulative principles in the śāstra, helps us to transcend all these qualities. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Who? Māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Anyone who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Lord, he is immediately on the transcendental position, I mean to..., surpassing the three guṇas. Sa guṇān... Guṇān, bāhu-vacanam, plural number. Immediately. Therefore, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If somehow or other one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he immediately becomes liberated. Immediately becomes liberated. Because Kṛṣṇa says that sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. And that is a practical application we are now experiencing while preaching in the Western world. The Western world, as you know, ninety-nine percent, they are in the tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. They are very active, working day and night. We are also, here in India. That is rajo-guṇa. And tamo-guṇa, ignorance, and rajo-guṇa, passion. Rajo-guṇa is better than the tamo-guṇa in the sense: in the tamo-guṇa people are lazy, sleeping, lethargic, but in the rajo-guṇa they are active. But they are active only for sense gratification. So rajas-tamo-guṇa. So we have to make further progress to be situated in sattva-guṇa.

So Viṣṇu, *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*, Lord Caitanya quotes from the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*,

viṣṇu-śakti parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-saṁjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate



*The Brahman is not niḥśakti, as some philosophers, Māyāvādī philosophers, they say, "The Brahman is inactive." He's not inactive. He is parāsya brāhmaṇa śaktir sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. His energies are acting. The example is: just like fire... Just like the sun. Sun is situated in one place, and the sun's energies are working, heat and light. Heat and light is working. The whole material creation is resting on the heat and light of the sun. That's a fact. Similarly, this sun is only reflection. Just like moon is reflection of the sunlight, similarly, this sun is also reflection of the brahmajyoti. And what is that brahmajyoti? Brahmajyoti is the bodily rays, effulgence, effulgent rays of Kṛṣṇa. You have seen, Kṛṣṇa's head is always auraed. That rays is, I mean to say, distributing different energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. That energies, or multi*-energies, are coming out. Just like from sunlight so many things are emanating. Yes. So many energies are coming out. All colors, everything, all material existence, is due to the sunlight. Similarly, the whole creation, whole material and spiritual creation, that is resting on the rays emanating from the bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40].



*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*This is a prayer from Brahmā, that Brahman is the prabhā, or the effulgence, of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi. First of all, the brahmajyoti is coming. And Kṛṣṇa also says, brāhmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Brahman is not ultimate. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. First realization is Brahman, impersonal Brahman, then Paramātmā, and then Bhagavān. So Bhagavān is the ultimate. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti kiñcid dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So brahma-tattva, impersonal brahma-tattva, is not ultimate. The ultimate is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the Vedic verdict.



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu is therefore quoting from different Vedic literatures to prove that the Absolute Truth is person, ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa, full with six opulences. As in the Parāśara-sūtra there is aiśvaryasya samāgrasya. When Kṛṣṇa was present He exhibited full strength of six kinds of opulences. So the... Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the fact. That is the Vedic version. It is not that some of the Kṛṣṇa's devotees have taken Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, or He is originally imperson and He takes a form, accepting a material body. These are not right conclusions. In the Kūrma Purāṇa it is said that there is no distinction between the body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and soul. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they distinguish that "Kṛṣṇa's soul is different from His body." That is Māyāvāda philosophy. But that is not the fact. There is no such difference. (aside:) What is that sound? Who is making that?

Pradyumna: Cutting, cutting vegetables.



*Prabhupāda: All right. Don't mind. Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says that... When the verse, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65], so Dr. Radhakrishnan says that this man-manā means, it is meaning the inner soul of Kṛṣṇa. You see? He does not know that there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His soul. His soul and body, the same.



*So these things are, I mean to say, creating havoc in the matter of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Instead of taking Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, persons who have no knowledge practically, or poor fund of knowledge, they are commenting in different way, and people are misled. As sometimes our, these Europeans, Americans, they say frankly that "For many hundreds of years, the Bhagavad-gītā was known in Europe and America, and many swamis went there. They gave reference to the Bhagavad-gītā, but there was no, not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Not a single devotee." Prior to this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they had not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa, as you are finding. Now Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, and they are understanding rightly, and they are becoming devotee. Anyone who will read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malcommentation, he'll become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. And when he becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, accepting the principle, "Kṛṣṇa is all in all," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That position we have to attain. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching is based on that principle. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. That is His... He is Kṛṣṇa also. According to Vedic evidence, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇa. He belongs to the category of Kṛṣṇa, but He is playing the part of a devotee of Kṛṣṇa in order to teach us how to love Kṛṣṇa, how to approach Kṛṣṇa. As such, if we accept the process enunciated by Lord Caitanya, then it is very easy to approach Kṛṣṇa.

*To approach Kṛṣṇa is not very easy job, because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. Koṭiṣv api mahā-mune. That is also stated in the Padma Purāṇa, that muktānām api siddhānām. Those who are muktas... To become mukta, that is also difficult job. Out of many millions of jñānīs, one becomes mukta, really liberated. And out of many millions of muktas, or liberated, kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, kaścid, not all, somebody may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So it is so difficult job. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has appeared as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, and He is giving you the mercy, causeless mercy so that you can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. That is the special gift of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We should always know that to understand Kṛṣṇa is very difficult, especially for this age, when people are very much fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. The people of this age, they are very slow. Practically, they have no intention for utilizing this human form of life. Generally, people, especially in the Western countries, they are simply interested like animal-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That's all. We are also imitating in India. We have also made our business... This is animal business. So therefore mandāḥ, they are not at all interested. As Kṛṣṇa as a devotee descended on this planet, Lord Caitanya, to canvass for Kṛṣṇa, similarly we, the servants of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we are canvassing door to door. That is our business. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he has taught us how to canvass door to door for accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. What is that? The process is dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipātya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi.

*Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he was a great devotee of Lord Caitanya. He was uncle of Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, who started at Vṛndāvana the Rādhā*-ramaṇa temple. Perhaps you know. So this Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī was a gṛhastha, a householder. Later on, after meeting Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he accepted sannyāsa. Then he wrote a book, Caitanya-candrodaya, very nice book. In that, this verse appears. He is canvassing on behalf of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, or on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is combination of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the verdict of the Gosvāmīs.

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api (bhuvi purā) deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad*-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ

*rādhā*-bhāva-dyuti-suvalitaṁ naumi kṛṣṇa-svarūpam

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is combination of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the... This śloka is made by Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, who was personal secretary of Lord Caitanya. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving us the easiest process to approach Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not easily approachable, especially in this age. Because the Bhāgavata says, mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. They are very slow; *they're reluctant. They don't care for the opportunity they have got. This is a great opportunity we have got, this human form of life. Once missed, you do not know what is the loss. We do not know what is going to happen in our next life. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is guaranteed that you get another human form of life. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga*-bhraṣṭo sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. Not only human form of life, you get in a very good family. That is assured in the Bhagavad-gītā.



*So my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Don't take the risk of waiting for another life. In this life." Because there is no certainty. So our propaganda, "Take to this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't risk. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." What is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. That's all. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Is it very difficult job?

Yamunā: No.



*Prabhupāda: Just see. A girl, she says it is not difficult. She is not saying without any understanding. She has the understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So... And man*-manā, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. If you chant this mantra and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, so there is no expenditure, there is no loss. You can chant this mantra while walking on the street, while passing in train or in bus. What is the loss?



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*People are crying for votes (loudspeaker heard from outside). So... But they are not inclined to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see. Crying, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote, give me vote." You see? How wasting their time. What they'll do, getting votes? How long they will remain a minister? But mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. Their opinion is very bad, sumanda-mati, or they do not take any right conclusion. And Bhagavad-gītā says, tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām [Bg. 7.23]. These activities, they are temporary, will end within some years, but still, they are so much busy with this business. Therefore this kind of occupation is for the alpa-medhasaḥ, those who have got very little brain substance. Medhaḥ means brain substance.



*So these things are there, mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo. Manda-bhāgyā, also, very poor. In this age, practically everyone is very poor, mostly, the population. You don't think that in America there is no poor man. There is poor man. Although they are getting money, very large sum of money, but they are utilizing in a different way, and they are poor. There are many poor. Intentionally, they have become poor. So therefore it is called manda-bhāgyā, that this... Each word of the Vedic scriptures is so nice. In spite of... In America I have seen. In spite of ample money and resources, some people have voluntarily accepted to remain as very poor and wretched. Voluntarily. They like that. They have no systematic life. Therefore Bhāgavata says, manda-bhāgyā. If we are unfortunate, even despite all facilities, we cannot be able to accept it. That is called misfortune. Not that in the absence of money and other facilities, one becomes unfortunate, but even in the presence of all these things, one is unfortunate. That is the characteristics of this age. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10].

*So in this age, how it is possible to become siddha? Mukta api siddhānāṁ koṭiṣv api mahā..., nārāyaṇa*-parāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa is not very easy job. Muktānām api siddhānāṁ koṭiṣv api mahā-mune. But this is the special mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that He is compassionate. Seeing the fallen souls of this age, He is distributing kṛṣṇa-prema so cheaply. What is that? "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," that's all. Simply by chanting. Ihā haite sarva siddhi haibe tomāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is blessing everyone that "Be blessed. Take this benediction of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and be blessed." So why should we give up this opportunity? That is our propaganda. Just like Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he is imploring, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakam. You know, in India, when one becomes very humble, submissive, he takes a straw in his mouth. Perhaps you know. Even in the village, still it is going on, that "I have become very humble, submissive to you." Dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipātya. "And falling down on your feet," kṛtvā ca kāku-śatam, "and flattering you in hundred times," ahaṁ bravīmi, "I am just submitting before you one request." What is that? He sādhavaḥ: "You are very great, you are very nice, and you are all sādhus. But my request is," sakalam eva vihāya dūrād, "whatever you have learned, please set aside for the time being. Please set aside." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrād. "Throw it away!" Then what to do? Sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Please submit yourself on the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya."

*Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. People misunderstood. Therefore Caitanya came. He took sannyāsa so that... It is the custom in our country that a sannyāsī is offered respect. That is our Vedic system. If one does not show any respect to a sannyāsī, he has to fast one day. That is the injunction. Still, India, they do not disrespect a sannyāsī, although many so-called sannyāsīs, they are taking advantage of this. That is another subject. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted sannyāsa so that people may respect Him. And simply by respecting Him, he'll be liberated. He is so kind. So Rūpa Gosvāmī, he offers his respect to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was prime minister in Nawab Hussain Shah's government. He retired and took to the path of Lord Caitanya. And when he first met at Allahabad, he offered this prayer: namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. "My dear Lord, You are so munificent, You are so liberal than all incarnations. You are liberal, you are merciful than Kṛṣṇa also." So namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "You are offering love of Kṛṣṇa. It is so difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa, but You are so kind that You are directly offering love of Kṛṣṇa." Not only understanding, but also developing your dormant love for Kṛṣṇa.

*So this is the mercy, causeless mercy, of Lord Caitanya. And He simply prescribes that you chant this mantra. As you see, these boys, when they're chanting, how they are in ecstasy. Immediately on the transcendental platform. Immediately. Not only here, everywhere where they are chanting. In every temple, if you see... The advantage of these boys and girls is that they have no other hodgepodge in their head. They directly accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they directly accept the instruction of Lord Caitanya, and they are making advance. Their fortune is that their brain is not congested with hodgepodge ideas. That is the idea. They actually... Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. They have given up all other occupation and have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So India also, we can do that. What is the difficulty? We must do this We must accept this... Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān [SB 1.3.28], janmanām ante jñānavān mām prapadyate. We are cultivating knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says, "After cultivation of knowledge for many, many births..." Not in one life, but many, many births. "One, when actually intelligent, jñānavān, actually wise, he surrenders unto Me." Why should you wait for many, many births? Supposing that you are very intelligent, you are very wise, you are speculating, but according to Bhagavad-gītā, why should you waste your time in that way, speculating? Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ [Bs. 5.34]. Speculating process will not help you. Ciraṁ vicinvan.

*athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-

*prasāda*-leśānugṛhīta eva hi

*jānāti tattvaṁ (bhagavan*-mahimno)

na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan

[SB 10.14.29]



One who has not received the favor of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Just like Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa because he was a bhakta, he was a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa. So you have to become a dear friend, a bhakta, of Kṛṣṇa; *then you'll understand what is Bhagavad*-gītā, and then you'll be able to surrender unto Him. And the beginning of this devotional service is śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. Simply you hear. Śravaṇam, first business, śravaṇam; then kīrtanam. In this way, gradually, we make advance in devotional service. And Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. "Anyone who wants to understand Me, he has to follow the bhakti principle." Then he'll be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. Not any other process.



So our request is, like Prabodhānanda Sarasvatīpada, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipātya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi, he sādhavaḥ sakala. Whatever you have learned, for the time being forget. Forget. Simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you'll be happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



Guest (1): ...particularly, the particular place, that is...?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Goloka Vṛndāvana. Paras tasmād tu bhavo 'nya, mad*-dhāma..., yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6].



Guest (1): For a man, automatically, he can become Bhagavān. What I mean to say...



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Guest (1): For a man, automatically, he becomes Bhagavān.



Prabhupāda: No. He becomes a servant of Bhagavān. He is servant of Bhagavān. Realization means when he realizes that "I am servant, eternal servant of Bhagavān." That is realization.



Guest (1): So his realization is not Bhagavān.



Prabhupāda: No. Servant of Bhagavān.



Guest (1): Different from Bhagavān.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Guest (2): Sāyujya*-mukti...



*Prabhupāda: Sāyujya*-mukti there is, but a devotee does not accept sāyujya-mukti. Sāyujya, sārūpya, sālokya, sāmīpya. There are five kinds of mukti, but sāyujya-mukti is not accepted by the devotees. But if anyone likes sāyujya-mukti, that is not difficult for Kṛṣṇa to offer him sāyujya-mukti.



Guest (1): So a man can can never become Bhagavān.



Prabhupāda: No. How he can be Bhagavān?



Guest (1): And never become Brahman also?



Prabhupāda: No, Brahman he's already.



Guest (1): He is already Brahman?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (1): And Paramātmā he is not.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramātmā is Param Brahman. There are two words, Brahman and Param Brahman. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Param Brahman, the Supreme Brahman. (Hindi) Brahman, every living entity is Brahman, because part and parcel of Supreme Brahman. Just like particle of gold is gold. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. Kṛṣṇa says that "These jīvas, they are My parts and parcels." So as part and parcel, they are also Brahman. Just like a particle of gold is gold, but it is particle, and that is mine. Spark. Spark of fire is fire, but that is qualitatively one, not quantitatively.



Guest (1): Naraji(?) Śrī Aurobindo...



Prabhupāda: Why you are quoting Aurobindo?



Guest (1): He is, he was also a saint.



Prabhupāda: There were many saints.



Guest (1): So I can ask one more question. Śrī Kṛṣṇa says...



*Prabhupāda: Why don't you touch Bhagavad*-gītā? Yes. Do you think Aurobindo is greater than Kṛṣṇa?



Guest (1): He says that...



Prabhupāda: He says he is greater than Kṛṣṇa?



Guest (1): Yes.



Prabhupāda: Then he's a nonsense, if anyone says like that.



Guest (1): He says that...



Prabhupāda: What he has done greater than Kṛṣṇa? Why do you accept like that? What he has done greater than Kṛṣṇa?



Guest (1): He says, one who goes in...(?)



Prabhupāda: Don't say like that, unauthorized, he is greater than Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. And you say he's greater than Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can say like that, "I am greater than Kṛṣṇa." So why do you accept like that unless you see practically that he has done greater than Kṛṣṇa? Huh?



Guest (1): That is a... And he said, I said... It can be said the Aurobindo was greater than Kṛṣṇa.(?)



Prabhupāda: No, no. Suppose if I say "I am greater than the President of the United States." Will you accept?



*Guest (1): Sad*-dharma (Hindi). How he says sarva-dharmān parityajya... [Bg. 18.66]?



Prabhupāda: Because you have created so many rascal dharma; therefore, you have to give it up.



Guest (1): The decision of dharma is dharati, sa dharma.



Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is that dhārayet? What is your position? You are servant. You cannot give up your servitude. All of you, you have assembled here. Can you say you are master? You are all servant. Is anyone that you are the master, supreme master? Who is a master? You are all servants, but you are servant of māyā. That's all. You are servant of your senses. Your senses dictate something, and you are obliged to abide by that. So you have to give up this service attitude of māyā and you have to take the real servitude of Kṛṣṇa. That is your salvation. Constitutionally, you are servant, nothing but servant. Artificially, you are claiming that "I am master." Nobody's master. You are servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is the real identity of jīva. He's eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as you accept that position, you are liberated. That is your natural position. You are constitutionally a servant. Artificially, you are thinking, "I am master." That is māyā.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyā tare japatīyā dhare



Why you are..., we have come in contact with māyā? Because artificially we're thinking that "I am the lord." Everyone is trying to be lord here in this material world. And when he's frustrated, he says, "Oh, it is false." Nobody is master. Everyone is servant. Try to understand this fact. Who is not a servant here? Is anyone, that "I am not servant, anyone's servant"? Everyone is servant. If anyone has nothing to serve, he keeps a dog and cat and becomes servant of the dog and cat. I have seen in America. He has no family responsibility; still, he keeps a dog and serves whole day, and he says, "The dog is the best friend." Because you want to serve. That is your attitude. That is your constitutional position. You want to serve; you want to love somebody. And if is misplaced, that is māyā. When it is properly done, that is liberation.

Guest (3): But Mahaji reveals(?) the person from the worshiper...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (3): And I think Rādhārāṇī helps a man to reach Kṛṣṇa, to hear, you know, the things...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Rādhārāṇī engages him to Kṛṣṇa's service. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. You have to take shelter of spiritual energy or material energy. That is your position. Therefore, you are marginal energy. So when you take shelter of the material energy, you forget Kṛṣṇa. And when you take shelter of spiritual energy, you understand your real position. Prasāda dila.(?) You have taken prasādam? (Hindi) ...that you are not master. You are all servants. (end)





710219CC.GOR

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 6.154-155

-

Gorakhpur, February 19, 1971 (Kṛṣṇa Niketan)



Prabhupāda:



...tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-saṁjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate



So there are three kinds of energies. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has got unlimited energies, just like in the sun there is unlimited energy. You can imagine if so much energy is possible in a material thing which is created by God, or Kṛṣṇa, how much energy Kṛṣṇa has got. That can be easily... [break] ...partial energy is there in the sun globe. For millions and trillions of years the waves of heat and light emanating from the sun, and still, it is as good as before. Similarly, we can understand from this example that the Supreme Personality has got unlimited energy. The example is given also, just like fire. The same thing...



*eka*-sthāne sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis

sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat



*Just like a fire situated in one place distributing unlimitedly, or limitedly, its heats and energies, heats and light, similarly, whatever we are experiencing within our views in this material world, they are simply manifestation of the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā: [Bg. 9.4] "I am all-pervading, spreading, in this material manifestation, jagat, in impersonal feature, avyakta-mūrtinā." Everything... Avyakta means Kṛṣṇa is not manifested there, but we can feel. Just like when you see some smoke from a distant place you can immediately understand that there is fire; *it is very easy. Similarly, if everything is going on nicely*-the sun is rising exactly in the time; the moon is rising exactly in the time; they are illuminating; they are appearing, disappearing; *everything is going on, seasonal changes*-so if things are going on nicely you cannot say that these things are automatically happening. No. There is no such thing within your experience which is automatically managed. We must appreciate there is some brain behind it. Professor Einstein, the greatest scientist, he admitted that "As we are advancing in scientific research, we are coming to the conclusion that there is a very big brain behind all this." How you can deny that? And we are getting direct information from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead,



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*So the progress of the material world... Progress, no... Progress means... In the material objects progress means... Just like a flower: it is in the bud, then it fructifies. That is progress. Again dwindles and vanishes. Ṣaḍ-vikāra. Just like your body, my body-progress means from babyhood, childhood, boyhood, youthhood. That is, up to that, youthhood, progress. Then as soon as youthhood passed, old age comes in, then dwindling, then finish. That means janma-sthiti-pralaya. It comes into existence, then it remains for some time, and again pralaya, vanishes, vanquish. This is the way of material existence. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It takes place... Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra, Brahman means the original source of appearance, maintenance, and disappearance. From Brahman, the Supreme Brahman, everything is emanating, janma. Janmādi. Janmādi means, janma sthiti and pralaya. So it is remaining in Brahman. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 9.4]. Everything is existing, maintained by Brahman. And when the whole manifestation annihilates, pralaya-prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikam*-it enters into the energy, supreme energy of the Personality of Godhead. That is the way, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya. From the energy... In the Vedas also it is said, sa aikṣata sa asṛjata: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead glanced over." In the Bhagavad-gītā also, ahaṁ bijā-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. In the material energy, Kṛṣṇa gives the seed. Just like a father gives the seed, the semina, within the womb of the mother, and a living entity comes out, similarly, within this material world the Supreme Personality puts, impregnates, the material energy with the living entities, and they come out with different types of bodies, 8,400,000's. This is the creation.



*So here Caitanya Mahāprabhu quotes one verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa: viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. You cannot say that the Absolute Person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has no energy. Niḥśakti. The Māyāvādī philosopher says that the energy generates when impersonal Brahman enters into this material energy, or māyā. He has got a body of māyā. No. That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa hasn't got the body created by this material world as we have got. Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Those who are foolish persons, poor fund of knowledge, such person thinks that I assume a body with the help of material energy." Kṛṣṇa says Himself that sambhavamy ātma*-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]-His own energy. That own energy is this viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā, spiritual energy. He does not accept a material energy, a body of material energy. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. So kṣetrajña, these living entities, they are also parā-śakti, cit-śakti. As we can experience two kinds of śaktis... One is cit-śakti and one is jara-śakti. Just like so long the cit-śakti is there within this body, it is living, it is moving, and as soon as the cit-śakti, the soul, departs from this body, there is no more movement. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the chief śakti, or..., not śakti, śaktimān, from whom-janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]-from Him this material world is coming out. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8].

*So we should try to appreciate the energy of God. When Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am all*-pervading..." Sarvam. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, the same thing, as it is Vedic injunction, similarly Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā: "The all-pervading nature, the expansion of my energy, is the impersonal Brahman." That is impersonal. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ [Bg. 9.4]. That is Kṛṣṇa's power. Everything is resting in Him. That means in His energy. Śakti-śakti mat or abheda. His energy is not different from Him. So therefore this quotation given from Viṣṇu Purāṇa by Caitanya Mahāprabhu is very appropriate. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. Ksetrajña, these living entities... Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, you know. Ksetrajña means the living entities. Kṣetra means this body, and jña means proprietor or the knower of this body. Just like when there is some pain and pleasure, you know. Therefore you are kṣetrajña; *we are all kṣetrajña. And Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. And that is Paramātmā. When Kṛṣṇa says, "I am also kṣetrajña..." Not this kṣetrajña. Sometimes they misunderstand that the individual soul, living entity, and Paramātmā is the same. No. He says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "I am also one of the birds sitting on this body." That is confirmed in the Upaniṣad. Two birds are sitting in one tree. So one bird is witnessing. The witnessing bird is the Paramātmā, antaryāmī. He is looking after all your activities, witness. Anumantā upadraṣṭā. Bhagavad-gītā: upadraṣṭā. You don't think that whatever you are doing, nobody is witnessing. Sarvato pani-padas tat sarvato akṣi. Therefore, when it is said paśyaty acakṣuḥ... Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has got such nice eyes that He can see your activities anywhere. He sees. But His that seeing, that eye or His eyes, are not exactly... Because we cannot see. As soon as I am closing my eyelids I cannot see you. So what is the power of this seeing? But He can see from within your heart what you are thinking, what you are feeling, what you are acting. And He is giving also sanction. You cannot act anything without His sanction because everything is property of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. So if you want to enjoy something, you have to take sanction from the proprietor. Otherwise you cannot take, unless He sanctions.

Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. This is the process. We have to understand. He is sitting within your heart.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmāyān sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*And as witness, as anumantā, as sanction*-giver, I am thinking, "Oh, I..." Either you are playing or you are wanting some way. So Kṛṣṇa will give you all facility: "All right, you want? You have it." Māyā is there; *she supplies you ingredients, and you and you get your thing. This is going on. Anumantā upadraṣṭā. But the action which you are engaged, the result you have to enjoy. You wanted some facility from Kṛṣṇa. You get it. You wanted to steal something from somewhere. Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence: "Yes, you steal. Come here. You steal. Here is the opportunity." But when you are arrested, you don't make responsible Kṛṣṇa. You wanted to steal. Here is the facility. That's all. So it is kindness of Kṛṣṇa that He is giving you all facilities. If you want to be a thief, He'll give you all facilities to be a first-class thief. And if you want to be a devotee, He'll give you all facilities to be a first-class devotee. Now it is your choice. Therefore we are suffering in our own choice. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. We wish something, we desire something, to have, and we hate something, to leave. Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facility, but we are not happy. By acting in our own way we are misguided. Otherwise we are, would have been happy. Suppose if somebody wanted that "Let me have one crores of rupees." "All right, you have it. Here is one crore of rupees." But after one crore of rupees you are not happy. These Americans, they wanted to be the richest nation in the world. They have become. But their children*-not happy. They are becoming hippies. Their father is also not happy, because his boy has gone astray. The government is perturbed, bewildered, "What to do with these boys?"



*Therefore, so long we shall want something for our sense gratification, without serving Kṛṣṇa we shall suffer. That is the proposition. In different ways we shall suffer. Therefore Kṛṣṇa very kindly, most confidential... Sarva*-guhyatamam. Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna that "I am talking to you most confidential matter." What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. "This is the secret of life. Don't bother yourself in this way and that way. That is the secret. You simply become surrendered unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "I am giving you guarantee. You have committed so many sinful activities life after life, and you'll suffer life after life. But if you surrender unto Me, I give you protection, guaranteed." Mā śucaḥ: "Don't be worried." Why don't you take this path? This is the way. Viṣṇu-śakti. We are visnu-śaktis, parā, para-śakti, cit-śakti. But we are not śaktimān. Śaktimān is Kṛṣṇa, and we are śakti. And when we consider that "I am śaktimān; I can do something," that is avidyā. That is avidyā.

*There is another śakti, avidyā, avidyā-śakti. That avidyā-śakti is for these living entities, not for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is never covered by avidyā. Just like I... [break] ...the cloud has covered your eyes. You say, "The cloud has covered the sun." That is nonsense. Sun is very, very, very, very big. What is the cloud? Maybe hundred miles' spread. But the sun globe is fourteen lakhs... [break] ...that correct? So how the cloud, hundred miles' spreading cloud, can cover the sun? It is foolishness that "God is covered by māyā." No. God is never covered by māyā. But God's particles, they are covered by māyā. Jīva is covered by māyā, not God. Māyāṁ ca tad*-apāśrayam. Just like you face the sun, there is no darkness. If you keep the sun back side, there is a big dark, shadow. The shadow is māyā. It has no existence. It is simply impeding the sunshine. Therefore it is shadow. Māyā means which has no existence of its own accord. It is also created by the sun, the darkness. Similarly, this avidyā, when you forget Kṛṣṇa, there is avidyā. That is also Kṛṣṇa's creation. Because you want to forget Him, therefore He covers you with avidyā. Avidyā-karma-saṁjñā anyā. Another, another energy of Kṛṣṇa which is known as avidyā, or darkness, covers you. And what is the symptoms, that avidyā? Karma-saṁjñā. Karma-saṁjñā means you have to work hard. Those who are covered by the avidyā, they are working day and night. And actually those who are not covered by avidyā, they are depending on Kṛṣṇa. Actually everyone is depending on Kṛṣṇa. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Whatever you are getting for your sense gratification, that is supplied by Kṛṣṇa. You cannot create anything. But by avidyā, he thinks that "I am creating."

prakṛteḥkriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*He's thinking. Therefore, avidyā*-karma-saṁjñā anyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate.



There is another śakti. One śakti... Every śakti... Kṛṣṇa śakti... Just like Kṛṣṇa... Just like the sun is light, effulgence, and the sunshine is the energy of sun; *it is also light. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His energy is also cit-ānanda, sat-cid-ānanda. Therefore says, viṣṇu-śaktir parā. Parā means superior or spiritual. Kṛṣṇa is spiritual, and His śakti, it is called material. Actually, in the higher sense, there is no material energy. It is covered only. Just like sunshine, when it is covered by the cloud, there is light, but the light is not so strong, so in the material world we cannot feel the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are forgetful. Therefore so many people, those who are covered by this material energy, they say, "There is no God" or "God is dead," "You are God; I am God," "God is loitering in the street," so many theories of God. That is due to our covering of the knowledge how to appreciate God. The difficulty is that we do not follow the direction of the śāstras; therefore we are misguided. As I was speaking the other day, because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa for time immemorial, therefore these books are there.

ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā

anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela



*Bahirmukha. Bahirmukha means those who are trying to be happy by adjustment of this material energy. They are called bahirmukha. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. This is their misconception, hope. They are hoping against hope. Don't you see? Everyone is trying to be very happy individually, nationally, but it is not happening. Sukhera lagiya, ei ghara bhandinu, agune puriya gelo (?). The nature's law is that, that it will set fire. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Bhāgavata says that "Why you are hankering after happiness? If you are destined to get some happiness, you'll have it. There is no need of your further endeavoring." "Why? Everyone is trying. I shall try." No. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Just like you don't hanker after distress. Why distress comes? Why distress is forced upon you? So many people come to us, "Swamijī, I am in distress in this way and that way." But he never wanted this distress. Why it has come? "Similarly," Bhāgavata says, "when distresses come without your invitation, similarly, your happiness also will come without your invitation, hankering. Rest assured." Because you are under the laws of nature-prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]-so the effect will come. So don't try for moving your distress, or don't try, don't be puffed up with so-called happiness. God is... [break] ...things will be managed. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. Don't think that you are managing. It is being managed by nature's law. Everything is there, destined. That is called adṛṣṭa. You cannot see, adṛṣṭa. Dṛṣṭa means seeing; *a means not. Therefore everyone's business is to cultivate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only business of the human society. And there is ample opportunity. And the process is very simple. Why do you losing the opportunity? Don't do it. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12].



Now here again Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

*yayā kṣetra*-jña-śaktiḥ sā

*veṣṭitā nṛpa sarva*-gā

*saṁsāra*-tāpān akhilān

avāpnoty atra santatān



*That avidyā, avidyā, this material energy, is covering me exactly like the cloud covering. Now, this cloud covering also in different stages*-one... Some of you must have traveled in the air. The cloud is covered... [break] ...little hazy, and when you go above the cloud, it is sunshine. So different stage of covering... Similarly, this avidyā or māyā is covering us in different stages, in different features. Māyā has got three qualities. Guṇamayī, māyā, Bhagavad-gītā says. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. Guṇamayī means having three modes of material nature: sattva, tamaḥ, rajaḥ. So here also the same thing is. Yayā kṣetra-jña-śaktiḥ sā veṣṭitā nṛpa sarva-gā. That veṣṭitā... Either you are covered by the quality of goodness, or you are covered by the quality of passion, or you are covered by the quality of ignorance.



*So the goodness, good man within this material..., he is also covered. He thinks himself that "I am very learned. I have nothing to do," or "I am now realized God. I have become God, Nārāyaṇa. I've become Nārāyaṇa." That is also covering, māyā's covering. He's speaking like that, that he has become God, but that is also another covering. Of course, he is performing very rigidly the Vedic principles. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. Kṛcchreṇa means very severe austerity. Those sannyāsīs following the principles of Śaṅkarācārya, they strictly follow austerities, lie down on the ground, and taking three times bath even in very severe cold, and simply have a kamaṇḍalu, nothing more, and lying down on the earth without any bedding, so many austerities. They are going, undergoing, severe austerities. Why? Now, to rise up to the Brahman realization-āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]*-paraṁ padam, that impersonal Brahman effulgence. But patanty adhaḥ, they fall down. Just see. After so much severe austerities, performing, they rise themselves to the brahma-pada, but they again fall down. For example, you know, many learned Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, very learned scholars, they suppose... They are supposed to have realized Brahman, but after few days they come to politics. You have... Perhaps you know. So many sannyāsīs, they go to fail for political affairs. Why? If you have realized Brahman, brahma satya jagan mithyā, why you are mingling matters here in the material world? That means he has not. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. He has come to the position of Brahman realization, but because he has no information of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nirākāra-vādī, he falls down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They don't care, this worshiping, or bhakti-mārga. They say, "Oh, these things are meant for the lower class of men or ignorant men, uneducated persons. Bhakti-mārga is for the uneducated persons." Their allegation is like that. But they are uneducated. They do not know what is education. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, "After many, many births of such cultivation of knowledge, when actually becomes wise..." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. What is the, that function? Māṁ prapadyate: "He," I mean to say, "surrenders himself," Kṛṣṇa says, "unto Me." How he surrenders? "Because after many, many births' culture of knowledge he can understand vasudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], 'Kṛṣṇa is everything,' that knowledge."

mayā sarvam idaṁ tataṁ

*(jagad) avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 9.4]



*These things are there in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very much authorized, scientific, and accepted by the all people all over the world. So why not accept it, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which was spread from this country? Why you are forgetting Kṛṣṇa consciousness? What is your reason? Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā [Bg. 9.33]. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. "The pāpa-yoni, whom we consider as pāpa-yoni, mleccha, yavana, caṇḍālas," Kṛṣṇa says, "if the mlecchas, yavanas, and caṇḍālas accept," māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they also become elevated to the highest perfectional stage of life." Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā [Bg. 9.33]. If the mlecchas, yavanas, and caṇḍālas are accepting, and they are making progress to the highest perfectional stage of life, why not the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas of India? Why they should lag behind? So join this movement and be happy. That is our request.

Thank you very much. [break] Now why don't you join? [break] You are going to surrender to Kṛṣṇa or not? There is still hesitation?

Indian: (Hindi) (end)





680108CC.LA

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 6.254

-

Los Angeles, January 8, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*...nija*-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*This is a prayer offering to Lord Caitanya. The central figure, dancing, a boy about eighteen years old, He introduced this movement, saṅkīrtana movement, being compassionate with the fallen souls of this age. He recommended, He recommended from the authorized scriptures, not that He manufactured. Nowadays it has become a fashion to manufacture a certain type or system of religious or yoga principle. Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not do that. What He introduced, that is recommended in the scriptures, that "In this age, for spiritual realization, one may simply chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa means God. If you have got any other name for God, you can chant that also. It is not that you have to chant "Kṛṣṇa." But Kṛṣṇa means God. The word meaning of Kṛṣṇa means "all*-attractive." Kṛṣṇa, from His beauty, all-attractive. From His strength He's all-attractive. From His philosophy He's all-attractive. From His renunciation He's all-attractive. From His fame He's all-attractive.



*Five thousand years before, Kṛṣṇa spoke this Bhagavad*-gītā; *still going strong. It's so famous. And Kṛṣṇa claims that sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. Most of you must have read Bhagavad-gītā, and in the Fourteenth Chapter you'll find that Kṛṣṇa says, "My dear Arjuna, in all species of life there may be as many varieties of forms." We are all living entities. Here even, even in human society, we have got different types of forms. Nobody will be exactly like the form of another gentleman. There is difference. So this is the beauty of creation. If you go to a tree, there are millions and billions of leaves, and you won't find one leaf exactly like the other. So there are varieties of living entities. Out of the varieties of the living entities, the human kind living entities are very small. From śāstra, from scripture, we understand that there are 8,400,000 species of life, 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, aquatics, water animals or water-living entities, are 900,000. The botanist or the physiologist, how many they have seen or how many they have experimented or how many we have seen? But from the śāstra, from the Vedic scriptures, we find that there are 900,000's of species of life in the water, and 2,000,000 species of life in the botanical department. Similarly, there are birds, there are beasts, there are four-legged animals, and at last, the human beings. The human life is considered to be the developed form of all species of life. Darwin's theory also, some idea, gives some idea. I think he might have taken this idea from Vedic literature. But the gradual evolution is recommended, is, I mean to say, mentioned in the Vedic literature that from aquatics to plant life, then worms' life, then birds' life, then animal life... There are thirty-three hundred thousands of animal life. So at last this human form of life. And the human form of life, there are many species, some of them civilized, some of them not civilized. Some of them have no religion. But we can know from the history of human civilization that any civilized nation, it doesn't matter whether he's Christian, whether he's Muhammadan, or a Hindu, or Buddhist-there is some type of religion.

*So in the Vedic literature (it) says that without religion, without accepting religion... Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If in some society there is no religion... Religion means to abide by the laws of the Supreme. That is religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Christian religion or Muhammadan religion or Hindu religion, religion means... Just like citizen, good citizen. Good citizen means who abides by the law of the state. It doesn't matter what he is. Similarly anyone, either he may be a Christian or may be Muhammadan or may be Hindu, that doesn't matter. Anyone who accepts the Supreme Lord, God, and abides by the laws of God, or laws of nature, he's called religionist or an advanced human being. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Either advanced or not advanced, that doesn't matter. It is a kind of dress only. But I am the father." Ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. Just like father is the seed-giving agent into the womb of the mother, and then the child, baby, comes out... Without the combination of father and mother, there is no possibility of generation. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "In all species of life, the living entities, I am the seed-giving father, and this material nature is the mother." Nobody can deny. Because our this body... Just like the child's body is made by the mother. Father gives the opportunity to develop the body, and the mother supplies the ingredients for developing the body, similarly, God impregnates, God impregnates material nature with the living entity, and they come out in different forms: aquatics, birds, beasts, animals, trees, plants, vegetables, so many. And Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the father of all of them."

*So my request to you (is) that don't accept Kṛṣṇa as something Indian god or Hindu god. No. Kṛṣṇa is the original father of all living entities. He claims. If you don't accept... If the father says, "You are my son," and the son says, "No, I am not your son," oh, that is son's prerogative. He may deny it if he doesn't believe his mother. Now what is the proof that one man is my father? The mother is the proof. There is no other source of understanding who is my father. If a boy wants to understand, "Who is my father?" the only authority is the mother. Mother will say, "My dear boy, my dear child, here is your father." You have to accept. If you say, "I don't accept. I must have proof that he is my father." How it is possible? It is not possible. Similarly, the Vedic literature is to be considered the mother and Vedic literature says, janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The Supreme Absolute Truth is that who is the source of all generation, all emanations." And what is that source? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "I am the father." So if you believe scriptures, Vedic literatures, if you believe Bhagavad-gītā, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme father because the mother... Vedic literature is considered to be the mother. She gives evidence that Kṛṣṇa is the father. Just like mother gives evidence who is your father, similarly, the Vedic literatures is compared to a mother, and the Vedic literature says that Kṛṣṇa is the father. In your Christian literature, Bible, Jesus Christ is accepted as the son of God. He presented himself as son of God. And here Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the father." So there is no contradiction. The son of God also says about God, and the father also says about the God, Himself. The son of God says that "You surrender unto God," and God says, "You surrender unto Me." Then where there is contradiction? There is no contradiction.

*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is to understand the father. It is nothing new. It is old. But in a new process, convenient for the people of this age. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. We have forgotten our father. We have forgotten God. The modern civilization, wherever you go, they say that "We are secular state." Secular state. Secular state means without knowing who is the father of the mankind. That is secular state. But the Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, a great logician during the time of Lord Caitanya, he was also godless. And generally, the so-called learned philosophers, scientists, or so-called educators, they deny the existence of God. They depend more or less on their experimental knowledge of science. But actually, the fact is that there is God. There is God. In every religion they accept there is God, and actually, the fact is there is God. In the Vedic literatures it is accepted, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said by Kṛṣṇa that "I am the father." Not only one place, in many other places. I am especially referring to the Bhagavad-gītā because most of you, you're acquainted with the study of Bhagavad-gītā. Similarly, in the Tenth Chapter you'll find, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Whatever you see, that is from Me." Iti...

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*One who understands this perfectly... One has to understand. So Kṛṣṇa says, "One who has understood that I am the origin of everything..." Budhā. Budhā means one who is learned. Bhāva*-samanvitāḥ. Bhāva-samanvitāḥ means "with thoughts." Not that whimsically or sentimentally to accept something, but with thought. "With thoughtful attitude or mood, one who has understood this fact," budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ, "he worships Me." These things are there.



*So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, he was a great logician. He was unfaithful. Not... He was moralist, but he had no faith in God, or impersonalist. There are many persons who have faith in something superior or absolute, but they do not believe in the personal nature of God. But here, from the Bhagavad*-gītā, we can clearly understand, from Bhāgavata we can clearly understand, from Vedānta philosophy we clearly understand that God is person, a person like you and me. Take, for example, in the Vedānta-sūtra, the first aphorism is janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The first sūtra is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now you have to understand what is Brahman, or what is the Absolute Truth." The next aphorism is, immediately, that "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates, the original source of all emanation." Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Janma, janma means birth. Ādi means et cetera. But janma, where there is birth, there is death and there is existence. Whenever there is birth, you must know there is death also. There is not a single instance you have got experience where birth is possible and death is not possible. This material world is going on in that way: birth, then existence, then development, then by-product, then dwindling, then vanishing. Six changes, everything. Either take your this body or a fruit or a flower, anything material you take, these six changes are there. First of all birth, then growth, then existence, then by-products, then dwindling, and then vanishing. So Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The original source of birth, the source of maintenance, the source of growth, the source of development, and the source of dwindling, and after all, vanishing, or the conservation of the vanishing elements, everything is the supreme Brahman.

*So this janmādy asya śloka has been interpreted in various ways, but the most important commentator is Vyāsadeva. He's the original writer of Vedānta*-sūtra. Not only he's the writer of Vedānta-sūtra, he's the writer of all Vedic literature. Vedic literature means four Vedas: Sāma, Atharva, Yajur, and Ṛk. And from the Vedas, there are Upaniṣads. There are 108 Upaniṣads. And there are Purāṇas. Purāṇas means those who will not understand the Vedic aphorisms and the Upaniṣads, statement of the Upaniṣads, for them, for ordinary men, there are many stories. The stories are concluded with the Vedānta-sūtra. Then there is Mahābhārata. You have heard all these names. Mahābhārata, the history, history of Indian royalty. The Mahābhārata is the history of fighting between two groups of royal family, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kurus. And in that Mahābhārata you'll find all kinds of sociology, politics, religion, and military science. Everything is complete there. And in that Mahābhārata is put this Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is only a portion of the Mahābhārata. This was also written by Vyāsadeva. But at last, he was not satisfied. Or even after writing so many big literatures, he was not satisfied. So one day he was sitting very morose, and in the same time, his spiritual master, Nārada, came to see him. Because Nārada is not an ordinary spiritual master. He could understand that "My disciple is sitting morose. So I must go there and give him some encouragement because he's a great personality. He is giving human society so many nice things, but he's not very happy in his mood. So I shall go and give him some encouragement."

So I am reading from the Bhāgavata this introduction, how Bhāgavata was compiled by Vyāsadeva. I am reading that chapter. This is the First Canto, Fifth Chapter. So when his spiritual master, Nārada, came... It is the custom of disciple to receive him, and to give him nice seat, and offer obeisances, and then talk on different subject matters. So when Nārada came, Vyāsadeva offered him good seat, and..., comfortable seat, and offered his obeisances. Then Nārada is preaching to him. He saw his disciple Vyāsadeva very much morose. So he's asking,

*pārāśarya mahā*-bhāga

bhavataḥ kaccid ātmanā

parituṣyati śarīra

ātmā mānasa eva vā



*"My dear Vyāsadeva, I see that you are not very happy. But I am asking you question, whether a person becomes ever-happy who has accepted this body as self or the mind as self?" There are two classes of men in the material world*-I mean to say intelligent class. I am not speaking of the ordinary class of men. Those who are interested in knowledge, in higher thoughts, in philosophy, in religion, ethics, morality... So many things there are. In science, in literature... So Vyāsadeva is everything in one person. And he has written so many books, as I have described. Now Nārada is asking him, "My dear Pārāśarya...," Pārāśarya means Vyāsadeva was the son of Parāśara. His father's name was Parāśara; *therefore he's addressing him, pārāśarya mahā*-bhāga. Mahā-bhāga: "You are very fortunate. You have got the opportunity of doing the best service to the humanity by presenting such important literatures. Therefore you are mahā-bhāga."



*To serve the human society is not ordinary task. And now it is not possible for any ordinary man. All great men or great personalities who have appeared on this earth and rendered great service to the humanity, they are still remembered. Just like in your country, President Washington, he rendered very valuable service to your country. He's still remembered. Recently, President Kennedy... He's still remembered. Similarly, those persons who have dedicated their life for the welfare of the human society, they are not ordinary men. Therefore he is addressed as mahā*-bhāga, the most fortunate personality, because he dedicated his life for the good of the humanity. The greater man is engaged for the service to the humanity, he is considered the great man. Similarly, Lord Caitanya, He also renounced this world. You see His feature is just eighteen-years-to-twenty-years-boy. And after this movement, saṅkīrtana movement, at Navadvīpa during His householder life... He was married at the age of seventeen years. So He was considered to be a householder. And His first wife died at the age of twenty years. Then His mother requested to marry... [break]

*...To do the best service to the humanity, that is His order. To do the best service to the humanity. He was so much compassionate with the human society. So by His grace, His philosophy, His teachings are now being spread in the Western countries. And I have taken up the humble responsibility. Please help me. You'll be happy. It is such a nice movement. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was also humanitarian. He's not a religionist. He was not meant for preaching a particular cult to gather some followers. No. It is the need of the human society, and He wanted to preach all over the world. Because it was not possible at that time, in His time. He lived only for forty*-eight years. He took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years, and He passed away in... Twenty-four years He was very busy all over India. Therefore He left His legacy to the Indians, any Indian, to take up this cause and preach this cult of saṅkīrtana movement all over the world. So I shall request you to understand the philosophy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His movement. We have got already six centers, five centers in your country. I started first in 1966, July, in New York. Then I started in San Francisco, then Boston, then at Montreal. Of course, I did not go everywhere. These boys, the sincere boys and girls who are helping me, who have joined this movement, they are doing. This center was started also by one boy. I have come for the first time here. Now I will request you that this movement is nothing sectarian or anything bluff. It is the movement as the necessity of the human society. You join it, you consider it. You put your logic, arguments. In every way, you'll find that this is the necessity of the present day.

So not only one center in Los Angeles, but you open centers in every village, every country, every home. And the process is very simple. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance in ecstasy and everything will come within yourself gradually. Everything will come. You'll practically feel how you are becoming reformed. There is no need of wasting time. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement can be done at home, outside home, when you are working, when you are walking, every moment. So try to understand this movement and try to follow it. It is not sectarian; it is the need. I shall discuss all these points gradually. If you kindly come and attend our classes, I shall be very much thankful.

Thank you very much. If there is any question, you can ask.

Yes?

Guest or devotee: What should you be thinking about when you're chanting?



Prabhupāda: Beg your pardon?



Guest or devotee: What should you be thinking about when you're chanting...



Devotee: What should you be thinking about when you're chanting? What do you think about when you're chanting?



*Prabhupāda: Chanting. You simply hear. When you say "Hare Kṛṣṇa," you try to hear the very sound, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Nothing more. This is meditation. Your tongue and your ear should be engaged in sounding this transcendental vibration, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Best meditation. This is also accepted in Bhagavad*-gītā: the best meditation. You don't keep your mind elsewhere. You keep your mind on the chanting. "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and hear. So this is responsive. When I was chanting, you were hearing; when you were chanting, I was hearing. So it is exchange. I hear your chanting, you hear my chanting. This is the process. So there is no possibility of thinking anything else. Best and the easiest type of meditation. Fully.(?) Factual. You at once become on the transcendental plane. Therefore we feel dancing. You see? So practice it and you'll see how spiritually you are making advancement. And it is very simple. When you are walking on the street, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is not tax. There is no expenditure. There is no loss. But the gain is very great. Why don't you try it? If without any loss, without any expenditure, you gain something, the supermost sublime thing, spiritual realization, why don't you try for it? We are not asking any money. We are not asking $250 for paying for hearing. No. It is freely distributed. Please take it and try it. Make an experiment. There is no business here. You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and try to hear the sound, that's all. Nothing more. [break]



Guest: I have a question. I was wondering why Kṛṣṇa is always portrayed as being blue.



Prabhupāda: Why the sky is blue? Can you explain?



Guest: Because the sky is blue?



Prabhupāda: Yes, why the sky is blue? First of all, you try to explain this. This is you are seeing every day. Can you explain? You don't? You cannot? Sky is blue! That's all! Therefore it is blue. Kṛṣṇa is blue! Therefore He's blue. (laughter)



Guest: But his consort, His consort is not blue.



Prabhupāda: Sky is the reflection of Kṛṣṇa's bodily effulgence; *therefore it is blue. Just like if the cover of the light is blue or, I mean to say, red, the radiance also becomes... Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is blue. It is described in the Vedic literature, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam [Bs. 5.30]. God's bodily hue is just like bluish cloud. But it is very beautiful. (end)





770124CC.BHU

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 8.128

-

Bhuvaneśvara, January 24, 1977



*Prabhupāda: (chants Jaya Rādhā*-Mādhava, incomplete)



kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*This verse we were discussing last night, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not reserved for any particular person or nation or religion. The central point is that one must understand what is Kṛṣṇa. The other day somebody inquired, "What is the meaning of 'Kṛṣṇa'?" "Kṛṣṇa" means all-attractive. Unless God is all-attractive, how He can become God? So Vṛndāvana life means Kṛṣṇa comes, descends Himself to show what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. So the picture, Vṛndāvana life, that is village life. There are villagers, cultivators, cows, calves-that is Vṛndāvana. It is not a big city like New York, London. It is village, and the central point is Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana life. There the gopīs, they are village girls and the cowherd boys, they are also village boys. Nanda Mahārāja is the head of the village, agriculturist. Similarly, the elderly persons and the elderly gopīs, mother Yaśodā and her other friends*-all are attracted by Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana life. They even did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. They did not know by reading Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta, to understand Kṛṣṇa. But their natural affection was for Kṛṣṇa.



So this svābhāvika ākarṣaṇa can be... At the present moment we have no natural attraction for Kṛṣṇa; therefore we must understand by knowledge what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa tattva vettā. So why one should be attracted to Kṛṣṇa unless Kṛṣṇa has all the attractive features? The attraction... Generally, in this material world we are attracted to a rich man or to a powerful man, man or woman. Just like our Prime Minister, she is woman, but because she is powerful, we are attracted. We talk of her. So the points of attraction are discussed by Parāśara Muni as bhaga. Bhaga means opulence. So these opulences... When one is very rich, he is opulent. One is very powerful, he is attractive. One is very influential, one is very beautiful, one is very highly learned... In this way, attraction. So if we scrutinizingly study the life of Kṛṣṇa, you will find in the history of the world than Kṛṣṇa there was no richer person, no powerful person than Kṛṣṇa, no beautiful person than Kṛṣṇa, more learned and person of knowledge, philosophy than Kṛṣṇa. If you study you'll find everything. The six opulences are fully represented in Kṛṣṇa; *therefore He is Bhagavān. Bhaga means opulences, and vān means one who possesses. This is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa, that He is all*-attractive because He possesses all the six opulences. This is the description of Kṛṣṇa. So we should not accept anyone and everyone as Bhagavān. We must test whether he has got the six opulences. A person who is begging from door to door, and when there is some bodily pain he immediately goes to the doctor-"Toothache, sir. Please give me medicine," so does it mean that he is Bhagavān? A Bhagavān cannot cure his tooth pain even? This class of Bhagavān we should not accept. Bhagavān is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, asamaurdha. Nobody can be equal to Bhagavān and nobody can be greater than Bhagavān. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says particularly, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya: [Cc. Madhya 8.128] "One who knows Kṛṣṇa specifically, not superficially, but in all details, What is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, he can become guru." Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā about Himself, kṛṣṇa-tattva, about..., the truth about Kṛṣṇa we can understand from Bhagavad-gītā with our intelligence. Just like Kṛṣṇa describes that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Now you study this one line that Kṛṣṇa says, "There is nobody greater than Me." Now you study Kṛṣṇa's life, Compare with anyone and you'll find, "Yes. Nobody is greater or equal to Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa.

*So at the present moment the defect is that people are not very serious to understand of Kṛṣṇa, because in this age, as it is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam about the people of this age,

prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ (sabhya)

kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ

*mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo

*manda*-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ

[SB 1.1.10]



*Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ. People are living not as they used to live formerly. In this age, Kali*-yuga, the maximum years one can live: hundred years in this Kali-yuga. Hundred years. In the Dvāpara-yuga it was one thousand years. In the Tretā-yuga it was ten thousand years. In the Satya-yuga it was hundred thousand years. It is reducing. Kali-yuga means the duration of age will reduce, the memory will reduce, the bodily strength will reduce, mercifulness will reduce. In this way everything will reduce. This is Kali-yuga. Supply of foodstuff will be reduced. This is Kali-yuga. So mandāḥ. Everyone is bad, not full strength. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. And everyone has got a sumanda-mata. Mata means opinion or system which is also sumanda. Not only mandāḥ but sumanda. Everyone is manufacturing a type of Bhagavān, a type of religious system. That is not bona fide at all. Sumanda-matayo. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo. And everyone is unfortunate, manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate in this sense: they do not know what is the aim of life, how human life should make progress.



(aside:) So you can read the explanation of this. He will explain in Oriya. Purport.

*Hari-śauri: Translation: "Whether one is a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī, or a śūdra, regardless of what he is, he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa." Purport: "This verse is very important to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. In his Amṛta*-pravāha-bhāṣya, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura explains that one should not think that because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born a brāhmaṇa and was situated..."



Indian translator: Kindly read one sentence.



Prabhupāda: One sentence. Yes. One sentence, finish talk. Then he'll explain.



Hari-śauri: "One should not think that because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born a brāhmaṇa and was situated in the topmost spiritual order as a sannyāsī it was improper for Him to receive instructions from Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya, who belonged to the śūdra caste." [break]



Prabhupāda: ...prabhu said,



yei bhaje sei baḍa abhakta hīna chāra

*kṛṣṇa bhajanete nāhi jāti*-kulādi-vicāra

[Cc. Antya 4.67]



This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision. There is no such distinction that one is lower and higher in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. In the śāstras it is clearly stated that unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot become guru.



*ṣaṭ*-karma-nipuṇo vipro

*mantra*-tantra-viśāradaḥ

avaiṣṇavo gurur na syāt

*ṣaḍ*-vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ



*It is said that a brāhmaṇa, even though he's well-qualified, ṣaṭ-karma, brāhmaṇa's six occupation, ṣaṭ-karma-paṭhana pāṭhan yajana yājana dana pratigraha-ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, and he's well expert in Vedic hymns, Vedic understanding-mantra-tantra, Pañcatantra, everything is competent-but avaiṣṇava, if he's not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot become guru. Ṣaḍ-vaiṣṇava śva-paco guruḥ. But if a Vaiṣṇava, even though he may come from the caṇḍāla family, śvapaca, the dog-eater's family*-that is considered the lowest in the human society-if he becomes a Vaiṣṇava, he is fit for becoming spiritual master. This is the śāstric injunction. Our guru, out of the Six Gosvāmīs, one of them, he has given his direction in the Bhakti... What is that? Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. A person who is not Vaiṣṇava... Vaiṣṇava means kṛṣṇa tattva vettā. If he's not well versed in the science of Kṛṣṇa, if his behavior is not Vaiṣṇava... Sadācāra-sampanna. Vaiṣṇava must have dvādaśa-tilaka, śikhā, sūtra, kunti, and there are many things, description. Sadācāra-sampranna, Vaiṣṇava. If he's not that, simply by education if he speaks about Kṛṣṇa, one should not hear. One should not hear. These are professional men. If you pay him something, he'll speak for some time, but his behavior is not Vaiṣṇava. So from such person it is forbidden to hear about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or anything about Kṛṣṇa. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. So one may say that "He's speaking about Kṛṣṇa, so what is the wrong there? He may be misbehaved, but he's speaking about Kṛṣṇa." So that Sanātana Gosvāmī says, pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam. Hari-kathāmṛtam is always pure. That's all right. But avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛta, śravaṇam... Why? Sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Everyone knows milk is very nice and nutritious food, but if it is touched by the lips of a serpent, it is spoiled, no more to be... So it is forbidden, that we should not try to understand about Kṛṣṇa from a person who is not Vaiṣṇava. Explain. [break]



*At the present moment there are so*-called scholars, politicians or philosophers, they have nothing to do with Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, but just to take advantage of the Bhagavad-gītā they are explaining Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. [break] One should not spoil his life by hearing or understanding the version given by such avaiṣṇava. So if we want to derive actual benefit from the Bhagavad-gītā, we must approach such person who has understood what is Kṛṣṇa. So therefore Kṛṣṇa gives the direction:

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśanam

[Bg. 4.34]



*We should approach, we must approach, yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā. We must learn from him about Kṛṣṇa. Then we can understand Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise not possible. Go on reading. [break] ...movement here giving this yajñopavita to the Europeans and Americans because they are now qualified. So sometimes we are criticized in India, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami is spoiling Hindu religion." But it is not actually the fact. We are increasing the number of Hindus. Unfortunately these, our these European and American disciples, these so*-called brāhmaṇa priests of Jagannātha Purī, they do not allow.



Guest (1): Americans, they are not allowed to see Jagannātha temple. What Prabhu Bhaktivedanta is doing? What he's doing for them?



*Prabhupāda: That is up to you. We... [break] ...vaiṣṇave jāti*-buddhiḥ, arcye śilā-dhīr. Everyone knows in the temple... Just like Jagannātha. Everyone knows Jagannātha is made of wood, or, in other temple, made of stone. But people, do they come to see wood and stone? So if anyone thinks... Sometimes the atheist class, they think that "These foolish men, they are going to see a piece of wood." This is nārakī-buddhi. Similarly, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Those who are acting as guru according to the description, if somebody thinks that "This man is ordinary person," and vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, similarly caraṇamṛta, Gaṅgajala, if somebody thinks ordinary water, so "he's nārakī." So these Europeans, Americans who are properly initiated according to Vaiṣṇava system, according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's indication, if somebody thinks their jāti, angrej jāti or American jāti, he's nārakī. What can be done?



Guest (2): What are the reasons why one should not hear from one who has got sufficient knowledge on Lord Kṛṣṇa if he is not outwardly a Vaiṣṇava? That means he's not having śikhā or kunti, like that.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Hari-śauri: He says, "What's wrong with hearing from someone if he has some knowledge of Kṛṣṇa even if he doesn't have a śikhā and tilaka and what have you?"



*Prabhupāda: That is the injunction of authority. Avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-ka..., śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. We have to abide by the orders of the superiors. "Why?"-there is no question. Authority says; *you have to accept. You cannot say "Why?" Vedic injunction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa was accepted as guru by Arjuna. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Because as friend and friend the reply and argument will go on, to stop this argument Kṛṣṇa is accepted as guru, not as friend. Similarly, when you accept a guru, you must accept guru according to the Vedic principle. So here guru, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is giving the injunction that avaiṣṇava*-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. Exceptional case is different, the paramahaṁsa stage. But a guru, although he is paramahaṁsa, because he is teaching, he come down as madhyama-adhikārī. There are three kinds of Vaiṣṇava: kaniṣṭha adhikārī, madhyama adhikārī and uttama adhikārī. Uttama adhikārī may be without kunti, without śikhā, without Vaiṣṇava symptoms. He's paramahaṁsa. But when he comes to the preaching platform he must become a madhyama adhikārī, not to imitate uttama adhikārī, because he has to teach. He cannot deviate from the teaching principles. So what you are speaking, that "Without śikhā without kunti, one can become guru," that is fact for the paramahaṁsa, not for the preacher. Preacher must behave very nicely.



Guest (3): Mahārāja, it is true that one should follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness for spiritual progress, no doubt, but who and why this present society situated which we observe in this world, in the modern civilization?



Prabhupāda: You can come please here. We can hear. You can come. What do you mean by "modern civilization"?



Guest (3): The civilization we are now going through.



Prabhupāda: So what do you mean by "modern civilization"? That means to violate all the rules and regulation? Does it mean modern civilization?



Guest (2): Question was, "Why there is a chaotic situation if...," I think if I'm understanding him correctly, "Why there is a chaotic situation? If God is to uplift the soul of all the persons, all the livings, why there is a chaotic situation?" Lord Kṛṣṇa has said that yadā yadā hi glānir bhavati... That is the answer, guru will say. Why there is a chaotic situation? That is his question, sir.



Prabhupāda: The chaotic sit..., must be there. Kṛṣṇa says one thing and you do other thing. So why there shouldn't be chaotic condition? You hear Kṛṣṇa, you follow Kṛṣṇa; there will be order. But if you do not follow, Kṛṣṇa says something and you do something... Kṛṣṇa says that,



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahata)

yoga naṣṭo parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



*Kṛṣṇa says that this Bhagavad*-gītā,



imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*Kṛṣṇa says the way of studying Bhagavad*-gītā, but you do not accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction. You read all rascal's Bhagavad-gītā commentary. Then why there shall not be chaotic condition? You do not follow. He strictly prohibits. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2], sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Yogo naṣṭaḥ. As soon as the paramparā system is not accepted, the so-called commentary on Bhagavad-gītā is lost or rotten. So you are interested with the rotten commentary of so-called politicians, scholars. So how you'll get the benefit? Therefore it is chaotic.



*Guest (3): Lord Kṛṣṇa preached Bhagavad*-gītā in battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and it is afterwards written by Vyāsadeva.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Guest (2): Is the Vyāsadeva got it out of his meditation, or how the actual thing which was conveyed to Arjuna was again in real thing took a shape in Bhagavad*-gītā?



*Prabhupāda: That you have no intelligence to understand. But what is given by Vyāsadeva, that is accepted by all the ācāryas. We are not so learned as you are, but we follow the ācārya. And it is recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ācāryopāsanam. You must follow the ācāryas, the Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Śaṅkarācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you'll get the real answer. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who follows the ācārya, he knows." Others, they do not know. So you cannot question "Why? How Vyāsadeva wrote?" That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sañjaya says vyāsa prasāda. How one can understand? By the mercy of Vyāsadeva. So we have to see. Instead of criticizing in that adverse way, we have to follow the ācārya. Ācāryopāsanam. So you'll find Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have accepted in that way. So what is the use of our questioning? We should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Otherwise it is not possible.



*Guest (4): I think Bhagavad*-gītā invisible treasure of all the sums of teaching of...



*Prabhupāda: Invisible for the nondevotees. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā*-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. But for devotee He's visible. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are real devotee of God, they are hours seeing Him within the heart. So God is not invisible. Invisible for the atheist.



Guest (5): We see some invisible action and some outer action.



Prabhupāda: What is invisible?



Guest (5): Man is simple instrument in the hands of God. That I know. God is doing everything or the man? Then the point comes why the brāhmaṇas of the Jagannātha temple are not allowing foreigners... Śrī Kṛṣṇa says, ātmānu:(?) "I live in (indistinct)." That means this ātmā is Paraṁbrahma Himself. If so, why the brāhmaṇas of Jagannātha temple are not allowing them and...?



Prabhupāda: So why in other temples they are allowed? No. God wants that these rascals may remain in darkness. They cannot understand Vaiṣṇava. Let them remain in darkness. That God wants.



Guest (5): Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, Hari...



*Prabhupāda: No. Your answer is this, that "Why God does not...?" God wants that "These so*-called brāhmaṇas who eat Jagannātha-prasāda with fish, let them remain in darkness, not to understand who is Vaiṣṇava."



Guest (5): That is true...



Prabhupāda: That is true. Take it, that. That's all. (laughter)



Guest (5): But to understand the God...



*Prabhupāda: Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andhā*-yoniṣu [Bg. 16.19]. Those who are vaiṣṇava-dveṣi, bhagavad-dveṣi, God keeps them in darkness perpetually.



Guest (5): What is the reason between man and God? That is the point we have to understood.



Prabhupāda: We have to understood... Come to this school and learn it, not in a minute.



Guest (5): Sir, not minute.



Prabhupāda: Then why you are asking all these things? You come, become a student, and learn. It is not so easy subject that standing for one minute, you'll understand everything.



Guest (5): Not standing. If God... If God is not doing everything...



Prabhupāda: God is doing everything. I have already explained. If you want to remain a demon, God will keep you in demonic condition. That's it. He is doing everything. That's a fact. And if you want to be devotee, then God can make you devotee also. Ye yathā mām prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmi [Bg. 4.11].



Guest (5): That would be good.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So...



Guest (5): That's why I asked of the point which is not clear to me. That's why I asked of the point. I know that God is, God is moving everything...



Prabhupāda: God is doing everything. That's a fact.



*Guest (5): Kṛṣṇa says in the Gītā, "I am moving everything.(?)" If so, if Śrī Kṛṣṇa is in the heart, if not then... If Śrī Kṛṣṇa is entering in every heart*-He's God-then Americans are also. If Kṛṣṇa is living in every heart, this ātmā itself, God, Paraṁbrahma, ātmā in māyā, being entangled...



Prabhupāda: The God never says the ātmā is Parabrahman. Why you are talking like that?



Guest (5): No. If the ātmā is not God, then what is there?



Prabhupāda: God is...



Guest (5): Due to the presence of a God... This life force is not God. Due to presence of God this ātmā is living.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. Ātmā is there. You have studied Bhagavad*-gītā or not? First of all tell me. Do you think ātmā and Paramātmā are the same thing?



Guest (5): Mostly the same thing. Yes. (laughter)



*Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. First of all try to understand. That is foolishness. Ātmā and Paramātmā*-different.



Guest (5): Advaitavāda, dvaitavāda, viśiṣṭādvaitavāda...



*Prabhupāda: No, no. I am talking of Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. Don't bring this vāda, that vāda. In the Bhagavad-gītā the ātmā and Paramātmā is not the same.



Guest (5): No, then, well... We have to accept dualism. There are two...



*Prabhupāda: No. Whatever "ism," we are talking of Bhagavad*-gītā. So Bhagavad-gītā-ātmā and Paramātmā different.



Guest (5): This ātmā is giving forms to Paramātmā.



*Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. In the Bhagavad*-gītā that is not stated.



Guest (5): With our intelligence we both cannot understand the thing, what is Parambrahman, but real philosophy is dvaitavāda, advaitavāda, one monism.



*Prabhupāda: So dvaitavāda, advaitavāda, there may be. But we are talking of Bhagavad*-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā what is there? You speak.



*Guest (5): Knowledge of our ātmā. Bhagavad*-gītā is connected to our ātmā. Excuse me.



*Prabhupāda: Bhagavad*-gītā, it is clearly stated that... What is that? Kṣetra-kṣetrajña. Ksetrajña. Just hear. Hear, please. Hear. Hear, please. Yes. Now, Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "So I am also kṣetrajña, and the jīva is also kṣetrajña." So that does not mean... First of all hear. Then say yes or no. He says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "I am also kṣetrajñam, but sarva-kṣetreṣu." If ātmā... I am ātmā; you are ātmā. You know your kṣetra; I know my kṣetra. But I do not know your kṣetra; *you do not know my kṣetra. That is Bhagavān. He knows everyone. Ksetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. So Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavān, He is sarva-kṣetreṣu, but you are only your kṣetra. Therefore dvaitavāda, two different kṣetras, kṣetrajñas. One kṣetrajña is all-pervading and one kṣetrajña is localized. Therefore two kṣetrajñas. It is dvaitavāda. Yes. You see Bhagavad-gītā? You have read Bhagavad-gītā?



Guest (5): In this ātmā, two kṣetrajñas.



Prabhupāda: In this... Not ātmā. In this body. There are two kṣetrajñas. One is the individual kṣetrajña.



Guest (5): But we mean to who is residing in the heart with the ātmā.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then He's kṣetrajña.



Guest (5): Who become splitted after our death, that is the kṣetrajña.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (5): Then it will be two.



Prabhupāda: There are two kṣetrajñas: one kṣetrajña, the individual soul, and the other kṣetrajña is Bhagavān. There are two kṣetrajñas. Dvaitavāda.



*Guest (5): Yes. Then this monism and dualism, then what about the Viśiṣṭa*-advaita?



*Prabhupāda: No, no. We are talking of Bhagavad*-gītā. Why you are bringing so many things? First of all try to understand the simple thing in the Bhagavad-gītā. Then bring big, big words. Yes, there are two kṣetrajñas. You have to accept it.



Guest (5): Two kṣetrajñas.



Prabhupāda: Yes!



Guest (5): Then duality.



Prabhupāda: Yes!



Guest (5): Then there are two Gods.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Not two Gods. One God. One is servant. Not two Gods. There cannot be two Gods. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7].



Guest (5): Two kṣetrajña means two Gods.



Prabhupāda: Why kṣetrajña two Gods?



Guest (5): Because jña means God.



Prabhupāda: Then why two Gods?



Guest (5): Two kṣetrajña.



*Prabhupāda: No! Two kṣetrajñas does not mean two Gods. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So He is all-pervading. You are not all-pervading.



*Guest (5): Kṛṣṇa is all*-pervading.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (5): But by sandhāna, by sandhāna...



Prabhupāda: So even if you say... Even if you...



Guest (5): I can also pervade. I can also pervade. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: What is that?



*Bhāgavata: By sādhana he can become all*-pervading himself.



Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness.



Guest (4): There is no use in argument.



Prabhupāda: That is not possible.



Guest (5): In this body...



*Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ jīva loke sanātana [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātana-jīva-loke jīva āṁśa. Āṁśa cannot be the full. Yes. Āṁśa, part, cannot be equal to the whole.



Guest (5): Then if we be the parcels of God, then what about prārabdha? We are suffering from pain and pleasure...



Prabhupāda: So you are suffering. God is not suffering.



Guest (5): No. God is not suffering.



Prabhupāda: Then, therefore, difference between you and God. You are suffering god and he's enjoying God.



Guest (5): We are enjoying the prārabdha, is it not?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (5): Pain and pleasure is part of God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That prārabdha. That is the... But God is not...



Guest (5): This is not argument. I have no equal.(?)



Prabhupāda: God is not under the laws of karma.



Guest (5): Swami, I want to know from swami.



Hari-śauri: If you want to know, then listen! If you want to know, listen. Don't speak!



Guest (5): All are waves and bubbles of the same sea. We are the bubbles and waves of the same sea, same Paraṁbrahman, this ātmā, Himself... (quotes Sanskrit) Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ... [break]



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says ca, this word. Ksetrajñaṁ ca means "I am also kṣetrajña." Therefore He is different from the ordinary kṣetrajña. First of all try to understand this. Ca means different, another. And the difference is that sarva*-kṣetreṣu bhārata, whereas the individual kṣetrajña is within the body. That's all. [break] ...there is no advaitavāda. There may be advaitavāda philosophy, but in Bhagavad-gītā there is no adva itavāda. It is dvaitavāda. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān partiyajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ: "You śaraṇaṁ vraja. You are different from Me"? Kṛṣṇa says. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa asked that "You surrender"? That you and I, different. That is dvaitavāda.



*Guest (5): Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], that can I understood, all arguments.



*Prabhupāda: No. You can understand anything, but that is not the thing. We have to take it as it is. We are therefore presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as God is commanding you, that "You surrender." So you are different from God.



Guest (5): That means, surrender means I am not a doer. I am not doing anything. God, who is residing within me...



Prabhupāda: Surrender. Who will surrender? Unless you are servant, why shall you surrender? You are servant; God is master. So therefore master and servant different.



Guest (5): No, that is true. I am not God. But God is there within me. God is everybody.



Prabhupāda: That's all... God is everywhere.



Guest (5): He's within ant and dog and elephant and everybody.



Prabhupāda: That...



Guest (5): Due to presence of God, this small living being, due to presence of God...



Prabhupāda: God is within dog. Therefore does it mean God is dog also?



Guest (5): No. God is not dog. God is a ...



Prabhupāda: Then you are putting the same argument. Because God is there within dog, therefore God is dog.



Guest (5): When we are talking...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. they are talking like that: daridra*-nārāyaṇa.



Guest (5): God is in everywhere.



*Prabhupāda: God is everywhere. That is understood. But that does not mean... God says, mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ [Bg. 9.4]. Why don't you read this?



Guest (5): No. That is true. If we will not believe that, then we will be helping people? We will be helping lot of people? No, that is not...



*Prabhupāda: Well, we understand Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. We don't make any interpretation.



*Guest (5): In Bhagavad*-gītā Śrī Kṛṣṇa says, "I live in everybody."



Prabhupāda: Who denies that? That does not mean God is everything.



Guest (5): No. God is not everything.



*Prabhupāda: Then dvaitavāda*-everything and God is different. That is dvaitavāda.



Guest (5): Then we have to love everybody, everything.



Prabhupāda: So who says no? Unless we love everyone, why we are traveling all over the world?



Guest (5): Love is God, accept, paraṁ dharma.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (5): Truth I understand.



Prabhupāda: That's it. That is... That is wanted. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram [Bg. 10.12].



Guest (5): Otherwise we can't love a poor man...



Satsvarūpa: Enough argument. Sit down. Then no more argument.



*Guest (3): I think Lord has said in the Bhagavad*-gītā...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (3): "Like sky, everywhere I am pervading, like one sun giving light to all."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (3): "So in all souls I am pervading."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Guest (3): That much clear answer to his question, the difference between the all*-pervading Lord...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (3): ...and the individual soul.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (3): And also He has said that Paramātmā, He is Puruṣottama, greater than the soul. The soul is also...



Prabhupāda: Puruṣa. Soul is described as puruṣa.



Guest (3): Greater than him. So that also establishes that...



Prabhupāda: Dvaitavāda.



Guest (3): Yes. God is different. And we cannot say that we are equal to God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. And God says further, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "Nobody is equal." Asamaurdha: "Nobody is equal to God; nobody is greater than God." That is God. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





661121CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.66-96

-

New York, November 21, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*prabhu kahe-'tomāra dui*-bhāi prayāge mililā

*rūpa, anupama*-duṅhe vṛndāvana gelā'



So Lord Caitanya informed Sanātana Gosvāmī that "Your two brothers, I met them at Prayāga, and they have started for Vṛndāvana." Lord Caitanya deputed the Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī to excavate the glories of Vṛndāvana. Before Lord Caitanya, the Vṛndāvana city was not there. The present Vṛndāvana city was not there. It was all forgotten practically. But when Lord Caitanya visited this land He made survey, and His assistants, these Gosvāmīs, they went there, and this present Vṛndāvana was constructed by the disciples of Lord Caitanya. So He said that "I have instructed your two brothers, Rūpa Gosvāmī, to go to Vṛndāvana, and I have met them."



*tapana*-miśrere āra candraśekharere

prabhu-ājñāya sanātana mililā doṅhāre



And He was guest in the house of Tapana Miśra. So He introduced Tapana Miśra with Sanātana Gosvāmī.



*tapana*-miśra tabe tāṅre kailā nimantraṇa

prabhu kahe-'kṣaura karāha, yāha, sanātana'



The Tapana Miśra invited him, that "Please accept your bhikṣā at my place." It is the system when a sannyāsī, or renounced order of life, is in the village or in the vicinity of a... So it is the Hindu system that somebody will invite. So Tapana Miśra invited him to take, accept prasādam at his place, and Lord Caitanya said that "First of all you get him to a barber and have him cleansed of, of his beard and hairs which has grown for so many days. Let him become a gentleman." The Lord said that "Let him become a gentleman."



candraśekharere prabhu kahe bolāñā

'ei veṣa dūra kara, yāha iṅhāre lañā'



*"Just get him to a barber and clean, clean*-shaven." According to the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya, they keep themselves clean-shaven. And only single instance is there, Advaita Prabhu. He had his beard. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu never asked Him to cleanse. Because one reason is that Advaita Prabhu was just contemporary to His father, so He did not like to dictate. But otherwise, all His disciples, they were clean-shaved.



*bhadra karāñā tāṅre gaṅgā*-snāna karāila

śekhara āniyā tāṅre nūtana vastra dila



Then, after getting him washed in the Ganges and cleansed by a barber, Candraśekhara offered him a new pair of clothing and... Sei vastra sanātana nā kaila aṅgīkāra. And Sanātana Gosvāmī did not accept that new clothing. Śuniyā prabhura mane ānanda apāra. And when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu heard it that Sanātana Gosvāmī, after renouncement, he's not going to accept any new clothing... So for a really renounced person is that whatever clothing is thrown in the street, he'll collect and he'll wear it. He would not purchase any new clothing. That is the order of strictly one who follows... Cīrāṇi. Sanātana... Svarūpa... Śukadeva Gosvāmī, in the Bhāgavata, he says that "Whether old clothings and torn clothings cannot be had on the street? Whether trees are not giving fruit? Whether the rivers are dried up? Whether the caves of the mountains, they are closed? Then why the renounced order of persons go to the viṣayi?" Viṣayi means those, those who are materialistic. Sometimes renounced order of life, sannyāsī, they go to the householders... Of course, that is their duty. But still... So Śukadeva Gosvāmī, a great personality in the renounced order of life, he would live naked. He would not go even to the human society. So those who are following strictly, they don't make themselves dependent on the householders or on the worldly people. So Sanātana Gosvāmī did not accept that new clothing, and when it was heard by Lord Caitanya, He was very glad.



madhyāhna kariyā prabhu gelā bhikṣā karibāre

*sanātane lañā gelā tapana*-miśrera ghare



Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu... There were two gentlemen, Candraśekhara Ācārya and Tapana Miśra. So Candraśekhara Ācārya took care of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Tapana Miśra took Sanātana Gosvāmī at his place to give him prasādam.



miśra sanātana dilā nūtana vasana

vastra nāhi nilā, teṅho kaila nivedana



Again Miśra offered him that new clothing, but he refused.



'more vastra dite yadi tomāra haya mana

nija paridhāna eka deha' purātana'



"If you like to give me some clothing, please give me some old clothing which you have used. That will suffice me."



tabe miśra purātana eka dhuti dila

*teṅho dui bahirvāsa*-kaupīna karila



Then he offered him one dhotī. Dhotī, in India, they use dhotī, about five yards, one dhotī. So he offered that dhotī, old clothing, and he divided into bahirvāsa and kaupīna, underwear and outward clothing.



mahārāṣṭrīya dvije prabhu milāilā sanātane

*sei vipra tāṅre kaila mahā*-nimantraṇe



Then again one Maharastrian brāhmaṇa also met him. He also invited him that "Next day, you please come to my place."



'sanātana, tumi yāvat kāśīte rahibā

tāvat āmāra ghare bhikṣā ye karibā'



That Maharastriya brāhmaṇa, he invited him, Sanātana Gosvāmī, "So long you shall stay at Benares, kindly accept my invitation. You come to my place and take your prasādam."



sanātana kahe-'āmi mādhukarī kariba

brāhmaṇera ghare kene ekatra bhikṣā laba?'



*Just see. He said, "No, no. I cannot accept sumptuous foodstuff from a brāhmaṇa's place. That is not my duty. I shall accept mādhukarī." Mādhukarī is a principle introduced by these Gosvāmīs. Mādh, mādhu. Mādhu means honey. And the bees who collect honey from flower-a drop from this flower, a drop from that flower, a drop from that flower*-in this way, he subsists. So this mādhukarī system means a renounced order of sannyāsī or a vairāgī, he should not accept in one place sumptuously. He should go to every householder and take a bit of capātī from this house, a bit of capātī from that house, a bit of capātī from that house, so that the householders also may not be disturbed and they may be benefited. When a real sannyāsī or vairāgi accepts something from the householder, it is a great benefit for him. Therefore to accept little from this house, to accept little from that house, that is also another mercy of the renounced sannyāsī or devotees of the Lord. Yes.



So he did not accept that invitation, that "I shall beg from door to door, and collect my capātī and live on that way."

sanātanera vairāgye prabhura ānanda apāra

*bhoṭa*-kambala pāne prabhu cāhe bāre bāra



*Sanātana, he was so strict in renounced order of life, so that gave Caitanya Mahāprabhu too much pleasure: "Oh, it is very nice." But while he was coming, his brother*-in-law gave him a nice blanket. That was on the body of Sanātana. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu several times overlooked about that blanket.



sanātana jānila ei prabhure nā bhāya

bhoṭa tyāga karibāre cintilā upāya



Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was very intelligent; he was minister. He could understand that "Lord is observing my blanket. That means He doesn't like that I should have such valuable blanket on my body." So he thought that "I should give up this blanket."



eta cinti' gelā gaṅgāya madhyāhna karite

eka gauḍīya kānthā dhuñā diyāche śukāite



Thinking this, he went to the bank of the Ganges and he saw one, another vairāgi. He had a torn clothing, and he, after washing it, he gave it for drying. So Sanātana Gosvāmī went there and asked him, "Please take this blanket and kindly give me your, that torn clothing." So that man thought that he's cutting jokes with him, that he wants to exchange such a nice blanket. So he said, "Sir, you appear to be very good gentleman. You should not cut joke with me in this..." Then Sanātana Gosvāmī, "No, I am not cutting joke with you. I am really serious. Please exchange this. You take my, this valuable blanket, and give me that torn clothing." And after taking that torn clothing, when he appeared before Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much pleased. Yes.



*prabhu kahe-'tomāra bhoṭa*-kambala kothā gela?'

*prabhu*-pade saba kathā gosāñi kahila



He inquired again, "Oh, where is that, your blanket, that valuable blanket I saw? Where you left it?" Then he described that "I could understand Your opinion. So I have exchanged that valuable blanket with this torn clothing. Yes."



prabhu kahe-'ihā āmi kariyāchi vicāra

*viṣaya*-roga khaṇḍāila kṛṣṇa ye tomāra'



"Yes, I was just thinking of you. Now you are completely independent. You don't depend on anything. So it is giving Me much pleasure. Yes."



*'se kene rākhibe tomāra śeṣa viṣaya*-bhoga?

*roga khaṇḍi' sad*-vaidya nā rākhe śeṣa roga'



"By grace of Kṛṣṇa, your last attachment also now taken up. It is a great mercy of Kṛṣṇa upon you."



'tina mudrāra bhoṭa gāya, mādhukarī grāsa

*dharma*-hāni haya, loka kare upahāsa'



*Then this is a hint by Lord Caitanya that a sannyāsī who has renounced everything, if he lives very gorgeously, with good dress, and good house, and apartment... No. This is not approved by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then what is that? What does it mean? A sannyāsī living like a first*-class gentleman, smoking, and very nice apartment, and some, I mean to say, lady assistant, secretary... What is this? Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not approve. He must be, as far as possible... Whatever is absolutely necessity, he should accept, not more. Yes. That is renounced order of life, not that in the name of renounced order of life he should live at the expense of the householders, very gorgeously. No. This is not sannyāsa. It is not accepted by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya.



So He says that "You live by begging from door to door, and you have a valuable blanket on your body. This is contradictory. Now I am glad that you have done this."

*gosāñi kahe-'ye khaṇḍila kuviṣaya*-bhoga

*tāṅra icchāya gela mora śeṣa viṣaya*-roga'



"Now You wanted me to be in renounced order of life. I first met you when I was at, in Bengal, in the capital of Gaudadeśa. And You desired me that I should be in renounced order of life. So I came, and my last attachment to that kambala is also now finished by You."



prasanna hañā prabhu tāṅre kṛpā kaila

tāṅra kṛpāya praśna karite tāṅra śakti haila



*Now Sanātana Gosvāmī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu is sitting together for discussion. This is called "Instruction to Sanātana Gosvāmī." Caitanya Mahāprabhu had discussion with some of His principal disciples. One was Rāmānanda Rāya. Raya Rāmaṇanda, he was Governor of Madras, and later on he retired from that governorship and became a constant companion of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Although he was a householder, he never accepted renouncement, but still, he was con... He was the most confidential devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although he was a householder, because he was highly advanced in the science of Kṛṣṇa. So there was some discussion with this Rāmānanda Rāya, and there was some discussion with this Sanātana Gosvāmī, and some discussion with Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, and some discussion with Rūpa Gosvāmī. So He had no other discussion with anyone, and the rest of His life was spent by simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And these disciples, under the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have made volumes of books on the basis of the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not write any book in His own hand. He wrote only eight verses, which is called Śikṣāṣṭaka. That was His only writing. Otherwise, all the books, valuable books that you have got in His sampradāya, they are written by His disciples, especially by Rūpa Gosvāmī. He's famous. Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, and that boy, the nephew of Rūpa Gosvāmī who left home at ten years old and later on, after becoming a very great Sanskrit scholar, he approached their uncles, that Jīva Gosvāmī. Oh, he has written many valuable volumes of books. So the asset of this Caitanya*-sampradāya about this devotional service is very great. Very great. This Caitanya-caritāmṛta is also one of them. Yes.



So,

*pūrve yaiche rāya*-pāśe prabhu praśna kailā

tāṅra śaktye rāmānanda tāṅra uttara dilā



ihāṅ prabhura śaktye praśna kare sanātana

*āpane mahāprabhu kare 'tattva'*-nirūpaṇa



*Now, after Caitanya Mahāprabhu's approval of renouncement of Sanātana Gosvāmī, He instructed him for two months at Benares. In the formerly... Here it is referred. In the formerly, as He instructed Rāmānanda Rāya at, in Kabul (?)*-Kabul is a place in the Madras, South India-similarly, in that occasion the Lord was questioning Rāmānanda Rāya, and Rāmānanda Rāya was replying and here, in the similar way, the Sanātana Gosvāmī will question and Lord Caitanya will reply. So sometimes the disciple and the spiritual master, the relationship is like that. Sometimes the teacher questions to the student, and student replies, and sometimes the student questions to the teacher, and teacher replies. This is called iṣṭagoṣṭhī. To develop knowledge, these questions and answers are required. According to system of accepting a spiritual master, it is said that just after acceptance... Ādau gurvāśrayam. One must have to accept a spiritual master. Then the next position is sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. Then he should be very much inquisitive. A student... Not finishing, that "Now I am initiated. Everything finished." No. He should be very inquisitive. Unless one is very inquisitive, there is no necessity of accepting a spiritual master. That is the instruction in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One has the necessity of accepting a spiritual master who is very much inquisitive about transcendental matter. Otherwise there is no necessity. Simply, "Oh, because so many people accept a spiritual master, so I'll have to accept somebody as spiritual master. My business finished"-no. One should be very much inquisitive. Yes. He must be very much eager to understand what is transcendental subject. Then his, this business of accepting a spiritual master will be fulfilled.



So here also... And when the questions and answers were going on between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Rāmānanda Rāya was not even a brāhmaṇa. Because in those days, the brāhmaṇas were very respectable community and they were learned scholars, so... And he was kāyastha. Kāyastha. Kāyastha, in... Of course, now..., not now, in some hundred or two hundred years before, these kāyastha were considered very lower caste. So Rāmānanda Rāya belonged to that kāyastha community. But he was very much learned. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He belonged to the brāhmaṇa community, and He was vastly learned. At the same time, He was in renounced order of life. So when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asking question from Rāmānanda Rāya, he felt himself shy, that "I am a householder, and I belong to the kāyastha community, and Lord, You belong to the..., You come from the brāhmaṇa community, and You are so vastly learned. At the same time, You have accepted renounced order. So You are in all respect my master. How is that You are trying to understand from me?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed this example by life's activity. So he was hesitating that "I should rather put question to You as teacher, and You should answer me." But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No, no, no. There is no such differentiation between master..."

kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*"It doesn't matter whether you are a householder, or you are a brāhmaṇa, or you are a renounced order of... If you know the science of Kṛṣṇa-you are fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness*-you are My guru. You are my spiritual master."



So that is the relation between spiritual master and the student, not that the spiritual master, because he has officially accepted the post as spiritual master, he should remain as... He should accept the students also as his spiritual master. This is the reciprocation. Prabhu. Everyone would address the other as prabhu. But officially one may be a spiritual master. But in spiritual platform there is no such difference. But officially, custom is that spiritual master is considered in the place of Supreme Lord, and therefore he is given the such respect. But the spiritual master, bona fide spiritual master, he thinks that "I am your disciple. I am your disciple." And practical example I have seen: our Guru Mahārāja, when we offered obeisances, he used to return me, dāso 'smi: "I am your servant." He used to return me this way, "I am your servant."

So these are the things we have to learn from the behavior, practical demonstration, of Caitanya's Mahāprabhu's life. So tomorrow we shall discuss the questions and answers of Sanātana Gosvāmī.

Thank you very much. [break]



*...You see? So similarly, a material qualification, that is not bad, provided they are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it has no value. Material qualification, if they are engaged... Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. If one is able to dovetail his material qualities in the service of the Lord, then that becomes a great qualification. Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha. Aravinda-nābha. Aravinda means lotus flower, and nābha means this navel. So Viṣṇu... Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu; *therefore His another name is Aravinda-nābha. He has got a lotus flower. On that lotus flower, Brahmā is born. This is omnipotency, omnipotency of God. You have seen that picture in the cover of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is lying, and there is a lotus flower from His navel, and upon the lotus flower, Brahmā is born, and Lakṣmīji is engaged in serving His lotus feet. But just see. Kṛṣṇa was to beget a son. His wife, Lakṣmī, or Viṣṇu's wife, was sitting. But He did not take... [break] ... He begot a child, Brahmā, from His own navel. This is called omnipotency. He can do anything and everything. Now, when we conceive of begetting a child, oh, we must have a, we must have to secure a wife first of all. Then I have my sex intercourse with her, then she should be pregnant, then I... Then there is child. Otherwise there is no child. Because we are..., we are not omnipotent, we cannot produce child in that way. This is called omnipotency. And He did not require the help of the wife, neither there was necessity. So Kṛṣṇa's wife, or Kṛṣṇa's girlfriends, they are not Kṛṣṇa's necessities. Kṛṣṇa is without any necessity, without any want. But if somebody wants "Kṛṣṇa should be my friend," "Kṛṣṇa should be my husband," He accepts. That's it. He is not in want. He is full in Himself. One who knows this fact, he is pure devotee. You are a... You are offering capātī. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa is in want of your capātī. But if you offer Kṛṣṇa and take the capātī, you are benefited. Kṛṣṇa bada dayāmaya, karibāre jihvā jaya. I sing this. Perhaps you do not know the meaning, that Kṛṣṇa is very merciful. Because my tongue is always hankering after some good, tasty food, this or that, this or that... But if I eat Kṛṣṇa's prasāda, then my tongue will be controlled. And as soon as your tongue is controlled, your all other senses will be controlled. These are the philosophy. So don't think that Kṛṣṇa is in want or Kṛṣṇa is in need*-He needs your third-class service. No. He's full, Himself. But if you can offer your service some way or other, then you are benefited. You are elevated to the transcendental position. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Thank you very much. (end)



661122CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.97-99

-

New York, November 22, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*kṛṣṇa*-svarūpa-mādhuryaiś-

*varya*-bhakti-rasāśrayam

tattvaṁ sanātanāyeśaḥ

kṛpayopadideśa saḥ



*Kṛṣṇa-svarūpa. Now, Sanātana Gosvāmī is taking instruction and lessons from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And what is the subject matter of instruction? That is described herein by the author of this Caitanya-caritāmṛta. The subject matter is kṛṣṇa-svarūpa, what is the actual position of Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-svarūpa-mādhuryaiś, and what is the special attractiveness of Kṛṣṇa, mādhurya, kṛṣṇa-svarūpa-mādhurya aiśvarya, and what are the opulences of Kṛṣṇa, bhakti-rasāśrayam. And all these*-what is Kṛṣṇa, what is His special qualification for attraction, and what is His opulence-these three things can be understood through devotional service, by no other means. Just like I have several times cited the example that if you want to be in confidence of a great personality, then you must satisfy him by your service. You cannot understand a big man by your speculation. Even in this material world, if you want to know a big man, what he is, then you must satisfy him by your service attitude, by friendship, by love, and he will disclose to you what he is. So the same process is bhakti-rasāśrayam. If you want to know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is His opulence, what is special feature for attraction, then you should try to understand through this devotional service of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*In the Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti, tattvataḥ, yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. In another place the Lord says that "To understand Me, actually what I am, is very difficult." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of human beings, somebody tries to make a perfection of his life." Otherwise they are all working like cats and dogs, that's all, simply āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. They have no other information. "Work hard, eat, be merry and enjoy, and have mating, that's all." So out of millions and millions of persons like this, engaged in animal propensities of life, only a few persons, selected person... Because the illusory energy has grasped us under her clutches very tightly, to get out of the clutches is very difficult. So somehow or other, a few people, out of many millions and thousands, they come to the understanding that what is the real perfection of life. Now, those who are actually perfected, out of them, out of millions of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhānām means those who are already achieved perfection. Out of them*-not these imperfect fools-those who are actually attained perfection, they can understand what Kṛṣṇa is actually, tattvataḥ. And that actual position can be understood... In another place in Bhagavad-gītā it says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] "What He is actually, that can be understood by this devotional service, no other process." No other process will help to understand Kṛṣṇa. You can... By other processes you can achieve some other thing, but if you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then you have to understand through your devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: [Bg. 18.55] "As I am." Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā.

*So you will have entrance into the spiritual kingdom, into the abode of Kṛṣṇa when you have perfectly... We cannot understand perfectly, but as far as possible, as far we have got the capacity, if we understand Kṛṣṇa as He is, then the entrance will be there. Otherwise there is no entrance. Therefore Lord Caitanya instructed Sanātana Gosvāmī about Kṛṣṇa through devotional service. This instruction is very important. You should very carefully hear and, if possible, note. This is directly the instruction. Just like the Bhagavad*-gītā: the Lord Kṛṣṇa is directly instructing Arjuna. But in the Bhagavad-gītā there are many phases of instruction, fruitive action, philosophical speculation, yoga system and jñāna system, all kinds of different paths. Ultimately, of course, Lord Kṛṣṇa instructed him that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the most confidential part. But here Lord Caitanya, He is not instructing any superfluous things. So that is the blessings of Lord Caitanya. Even what Kṛṣṇa could not give, what Kṛṣṇa could not, or Kṛṣṇa hesitated to give... Because Kṛṣṇa hesitated that "If I speak in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], people would not accept it." There was no necessity of describing Bhagavad-gītā in so many phases of instruction. Because the last instruction, most confidential instruction, was that "You give up everything and just surrender unto Me." That is the actual instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, but that was not spoken in the beginning because there are many phases of human beings. They are under different stages of...

*So for their different stages, karma, jñāna, yoga, so many things, they have been described. But here, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His mercy is that He directly gives this highest instruction*-what Kṛṣṇa could not give, but Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, or Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation as Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us. Therefore He is considered the most munificent, charitable personality, man of charity. Rūpa Gosvāmī offered his respect, that namo mahā-vadānyāya: "You are the greatest munificent personality." Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "You are directly offering Kṛṣṇa, which is very difficult to understand." It is very difficult to understand. "So many scholars, so many philosophers, so many great personalities, they could not understand Kṛṣṇa, but Your mercy is so broad that You are directly offering Kṛṣṇa." Therefore, mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "Directly You are giving Kṛṣṇa, love of Kṛṣṇa."

*So Sanātana Gosvāmī in this way, directly, here received instruction from Lord Caitanya about bhakti*-yogam, what is bhakti. Tattvaṁ sanātanāyeśaḥ kṛpayopadideśa saḥ. Īśa. Īśa means the Lord, the supreme controller. So he is also... Just like Arjuna received instruction directly, similarly, Sanātana Gosvāmī also received instruction directly from the Supreme Lord. Now, here, how to receive instruction, that is given by example by Sanātana Gosvāmī.

tabe sanātana prabhura caraṇe dhariyā

dainya vinati kare dante tṛṇa lañā



"Sanātana Gosvāmī very humbly fell down on the lotus feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and most humbly he submitted." What is that submission?



*'nīca jāti, nīca*-saṅgī, patita adhama

*kuviṣaya*-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama!



*"My dear Sir, I have wasted my time in simply sense gratification. That is my qualification. And I belong to the lowest caste," nīca jāti nīca*-saṅgī, "and my association is also of the lowest type." And patita: "I am fallen, and I am the lowest of all. This is my qualification." Now, why he is submitting himself as nīca jāti? Nīca jāti means those who are born in lower families. They are called nīca jāti, as śūdras or less than the śūdras. According to Vedic system the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya, they are higher caste, and the śūdras, they are lower caste. And less than śūdras, they are lowest.



*So Sanātana Gosvāmī, actually he belonged to the brāhmaṇa family. His forefathers belonged to the sarasvata brāhmaṇa. There are different sect, gaura brāhmaṇa and sarasvata brāhmaṇa. So sarasvata brāhmaṇa, actually they belonged to the Aryan, ārya*-varta, the Punjab side and Kashmir side. They are considered to be high-class brāhmaṇa. So he belongs to that community. But somehow or other, their forefathers, I mean to say, make their domicile in Bengal because they had some property in Bengal. They were very rich, aristocratic family. And this Sanātana Gosvāmī accepted ministership in the Muhammadan kingdom. So in those days, amongst the brāhmaṇa community, if any brāhmaṇa would accept service, he becomes at once a śūdra. He becomes at once, because service is meant for the śūdras, not for the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, and vaiśyas. They would never accept anybody's obligation as service. They will starve. That was the principle. Only the śūdras could accept service. So because this Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī accepted government office-although it was government office, but it was service-so they were outside the brāhmaṇa community. So all these Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted. Otherwise, at that time social condition was very strict. You have heard the name of Rabindranath Tagore. They were also in that way ostracized. They were out of brāhmaṇa community. They also belonged to the brāhmaṇa community. So therefore he is presenting himself that nīca jāti. Nīca jāti: "I am lower caste." Why? Nīca-saṅgī: "Because my association nīca, my association Muhammadan. They are not brāhmaṇas. They are not highly qualified. Because my association lower, so I am lower also." And patita: "I have fallen down from the standard of my paternal position." Patita: "I am fallen." Adhama. Adhama means "I am the lowest of the human beings."

*So of course, because Sanātana Gosvāmī was under certain condition, it is not simply, particularly for this Sanātana Gosvāmī. Everyone, unless he is conscious of his position, that he is the lowest, he cannot become the highest. One should not think... While approaching a spiritual master, one should not be puffed up with his so*-called qualification. He should be a blank slate. That is the... That is the requirement. He should forget. That, whatever nonsense he has learned, he should forget. Otherwise there will be no benefit by approaching spiritual master. He should forget. If he keeps his personality, "I believe..., I cannot...," there is no necessity. With such nonsense things, nobody should approach a spiritual master. One should become a blank slate. That is the instruction here, that "I am fallen, I am the lowest, and I am lower born. So many things, all good qualification, this is my position." Nīca jāti. And kuviṣaya-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama: "I have now wasted my time simply by sense gratification." Viṣaya means āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. These are called viṣaya, objects of sense gratification: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. These are called viṣaya, and we are engaged only how to eat very nicely, how to sleep very nicely, how to give me protection and how to have nice mating. This is our business. So Sanātana Gosvāmī says that "I have simply wasted my time in this way, and my position is this." So therefore, actually, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: "Because I am so much fallen, because I have wasted my time in sense gratification, because I am ostracized, because my association is so lower, therefore my position is that I do not know what is actually beneficial to me." Āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni.

*Now, Sanātana Gosvāmī was minister, educated. He was a learned scholar in Parsi and Sanskrit. So how it is that he is placing himself in that way? Is he, I mean to say, imitating something, such humbleness, but actually he was not? Actually, he was... No. Actually he was so. A devotee does not say anything falsely, unless he feels, he feels himself like that. Why does he feel? He was educated. He belonged to the brāhmaṇa, aristocratic family. His association was all nawabs and zamindars, aristocratic family, and still, he says like this. Why? What is the defect, that he felt like that? Now he is expressing. Āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: "I do not know what is actually beneficial to me. I am thinking that 'If I am posted in a service like this and if I have got some aristocratic association, I have got some arrangement for sense gratification...' That is materialism. So I have passed my, wasted my time in that way. But actually I do not know what is beneficial to me." So grāmya*-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni. In the Indian system a brāhmaṇa is addressed as "paṇḍita." Perhaps you know Paṇḍita Jawaharlal Nehru. Although he had no brahminical qualification, but because he was born in a brāhmaṇa family, so this title was... "Paṇḍita." A brāhmaṇa is addressed as paṇḍita, a kṣatriya is addressed as ṭhākura, and a vaiśya is addressed seth, sethji, a rich man. The vaiśyas are generally very rich men. Perhaps you have... As you have in your country the Rockefeller, Carnegie and Ford, similarly, in our country we have got many rich men just like Birla, Dalmiya, Bangar (?), and so many. So they are called sethji. So sethji, ṭhākuraji and paṇḍitaji. And the śūdras are called mahājana. Because if they are called śūdra, they will be angry. So mahājana means great personality. So these are some etiquette for addressing different communities. Amongst the different communities, although they were of such classification, still, there was no enmity. They lived in village although in their position, but the relationship was very friendly, just like brothers, just like brothers actually. Because the culture was religion, culture was this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So they depended on the culture. There was no provincialism because they depended on culture. So culture is the thing, the Kṛṣṇa conscious, which can... Even there are materially so many high and low classification, when you come to this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they will be all in the same level.

*So he says that grāmya*-vyavahāre paṇḍita: "As a matter of social etiquette, I am addressed as 'paṇḍita.' " Paṇḍita means learned. Learned scholar, he is called paṇḍita. Paṇḍita sama-darśinaḥ. You have read in the Bhagavad-gītā: a paṇḍita means he sees everything on equal eye. Why? Because he is brāhmaṇa, he has known what is Brahman and what are these living entities. He has got such knowledge. That is called paṇḍita. So Sanātana Gosvāmī has no such knowledge. At least, he is pretending like that. So he says that grāmya-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita: "By social etiquette I am addressed as 'paṇḍita,' but..." Tāi satya māni: "And I also accept that I am paṇḍita." If somebody falsely calls me that "Your Majesty," so it is an insult. It is not honoring him. I am an ordinary man. If somebody calls me, Your Majesty," so a man who has no qualification, if he is eulogized in that way, that is an insult. But we are so much fool that if somebody calls me "Your Majesty," I shall feel, "Oh, I am Majesty. Yes. I am His Majesty." That is our nature. If some false qualifications is awarded to me, I shall be very glad to accept it. I shall think, "Yes." So Sanātana Gosvāmī said that "Actually, I am not paṇḍita because I do not know what is my benefit, what is beneficial to me. I do not know the goal of my life. I simply wasted my time in sense gratification. I do not know. And still, people say, 'You are paṇḍita,' and I accept it. Just see my position." This is blank slate, admitting that "I am fool number one, but people say I am learned, and I accept it." This is our nature. This is called illusion. He will never think that "I am fool number one." He will always think, "Oh, who can be greater than me? I can think myself. Why? What is the necessity of a spiritual master? I can become a religious leader, I can become such and such, or..." This is our mentality.

So this mentality should be sacrificed first, before going to a spiritual master. First of all you have to select who can be your spiritual master. That requires some knowledge. Or you have to behave with a person to understand, "Whether he is fit to become my spiritual master?" Then you should offer yourself to be a student. That is the process, not that all of a sudden you shall go to a person, "Oh, please accept me as your..." No. You should first of all try to understand whether he is actually fit. Then offer yourself. So just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he first saw Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he did not offer himself, but when he heard from Caitanya Mahāprabhu and he understood, "Yes, it is very nice thing. So I should now retire from service, and I should wholly devote to Caitanya Mahāprabhu," so he left his very lucrative job, ministership, and just like a very poor man he approached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he's placing, submitted himself as blank slate, that "These are my qualifications. Please accept me."

Thank you very much. (end)



760704CC.WDC

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.98-99

-

Washington, D.C., July 4, 1976



*Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Putting a straw in his mouth and bowing down, Sanātana Gosvāmī clasped the lotus feet of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and humbly spoke as follows. Sanātana Gosvāmī said, 'I was born in a low family, and my associates are all low*-class men. I myself am fallen and am the lowest of men. Indeed, I have passed my whole life fallen in the well of sinful materialism.' "



Prabhupāda:



tabe sanātana prabhura caraṇe dhariyā

dainya vinati kare dante tṛṇa lañā

*nīca jāti, nīca*-saṅgī, patita adhama

*kuviṣaya*-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama



This is Bengali language. (aside:) Children must stop talking. Sanātana Gosvāmī approaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then Pathan government in Bengal. So since he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he decided to retire from political life and join this movement. So there is a long history. When he wanted to resign, the Nawab become very angry because Nawab was depending on him for the ruling of the kingdom. He was free, but when Sanātana Gosvāmī proposed to retire, he became very much disturbed. A long history. So anyway, he escaped from the government service, and with great difficulty, he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He was at Vārāṇasi, Benares.



So now, he's ācārya, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he's ācārya. Ācāryaṁ vijānīyān, māṁ vijānīyāt. Ācāryopāsanam. This is the recommendation of Vedic knowledge. One should worship the ācārya. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was made ācārya. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was made ācārya. Ācārya means one who knows the meaning of śāstra, personally behaves according to the śāstra and teaches his disciple accordingly. He is called ācārya. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is teaching us by his personal behavior how to approach guru. That he's teaching. Tabe sanātana prabhura caraṇe dhariyā. To approach guru the first business is surrender. That is everywhere in the Vedic literature. That is the process.

*tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet

*samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, Kṛṣṇa says:



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*First of all guru means tattva-darśī, one who knows the Absolute Truth. He is guru. Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. All previous ācāryas, modern ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In India there are at the present moment... Within one thousand years, all the ācāryas who advented-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, even Śaṅkarācārya*-all accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*So here Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's also Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. He has appeared as devotee. He appeared first of all as the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, and He instructed Bhagavad-gītā to the fallen souls and He asserted His Lordship, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But puffed-up, so-called learned scholars and men of position, they declined, "Why should I surrender to Kṛṣṇa?" Therefore Kṛṣṇa Himself as devotee of Kṛṣṇa appeared. That is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He's teaching how to approach Kṛṣṇa. And His disciples, they are also teaching the same philosophy. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's philosophy and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy. It is not that we can manufacture some philosophy. That is nonsense. Philosophy is one; *religion is one. Everyone has to follow. There is no second alternative. That is the preaching about... Mām ekam, not that "Whatever you like, you can do." No, that is not. Mām ekam*-simply Kṛṣṇa. There are some missionaries. They say that you can manufacture in your..., your own way of worship, and whatever you accept, that is all right. These bogus things are not accepted by the ācāryas. Mām ekam, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. If you want to understand what is Bhagavān, that is Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavān... Religion means to understand Bhagavān. The other day we were consulting dictionary? Religion means the process by which we can understand the supreme controller. There is a supreme controller, as in every department, in every state, every affair, every business, every institution there is a controller. That you have got experience, practical. Without controller, nothing can be properly discharged. Controller is required.

*So the śāstra says that controller or ruler is the same, and the Sanskrit synonym is īśvara. Īśvara means controller or ruler. So there are different kinds of controllers according to time, sphere. Just like in your country, the President is the controller. In other country somebody is controller. So there are many hundreds and thousands of planets within this universe, and each and every planet there is a controller. The sun planet, there is a controller. His name is Vivasvān. That we find. Similarly, the moon planet, there is a controller. Every planet, there is controller. And above all of them there is another supreme controller of the universe, the Brahma, and there are many millions of brahmāṇḍas, or universes. So there are controllers. But so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He is described in the śāstras, Brahma*-saṁhitā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. There are controllers, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Īśvaraḥ means controller. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His form... He has form. Bhagavān means with form. You see the form here, vigrahaḥ. Vigrahaḥ means form. But His form is different from our. He's sac-cid-ānanda. His form is eternal. Our, this form is not eternal. We have to give it up. We have to accept another form according to our karma. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. But Kṛṣṇa hasn't got to do that. He is in His original form. He has got many forms, expansions, but His original form is Kṛṣṇa with two hands and flutes.

*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



*Kṛṣṇa's symbolic representation is He is always playing on flute. And barhāvataṁsa: with a peacock feather. These are described in the Vedic literature. It is not that we worship Kṛṣṇa as imaginary form of God. No. As the Māyāvādīs, they say that you can imagine any form of God, no, that is not the fact. God has His original form, real form sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].



So if we understand, if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, are interested... Because Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood very easily. It is not possible.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatayi siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



Kṛṣṇa says, "Out of many millions of persons, one is interested how to become siddha." Siddha means liberated, one who is not entangled with this material atmosphere. He is called siddha. So out of many millions of people, one may be interested how to become free from this material entanglement. And yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3], and out of many such siddhas, one may understand Kṛṣṇa. Kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. So it is not so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa, but when Kṛṣṇa comes personally as a devotee and shows us the ways and means how to approach Kṛṣṇa, then it becomes easier. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if we follow the methods, the method prescribed by Kṛṣṇa is very easy, but still, because we misunderstand Kṛṣṇa... Therefore, if we go through the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then we can easily understand Kṛṣṇa. That is recognized by Rūpa Gosvāmī, the younger brother of Sanātana Gosvāmī. Two of them were ministers. So Rūpa Gosvāmī has described,



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He said, "Caitanya Mahāprabhu, You are Kṛṣṇa. Now, this time, You have appeared as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya in order to give everyone Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa made some condition, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], but here now, as devotee of Kṛṣṇa, You are distributing Kṛṣṇa without any condition. Therefore mahā-vadānyāya: You are the most munificent incarnation." So somehow or other, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he became attracted to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He resigned his ministerial post, and he has come to surrender to Caitanya Mahāprabhu while he was at Benares. Therefore it is said, tabe sanātana prabhura caraṇe dhariyā.



*So when we approach guru, our first condition is that we must be humble and surrender. Praṇipāta. Prakṛṣṭa*-rūpeṇa-nipāta. Then sevā, to serve the spiritual master; *yasya prasādād, to gain his favor. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **. This is the process. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Sanātana Gosvāmī's teaching how to approach guru, so, very humbly... Dante tṛṇa lañā. In India the system is that to... Symbolic representation of humbleness is to take one piece of grass in the mouth. Then it is to be understood that he is coming very submissively. Now this system is not current, but formerly it was. So Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī also said like that, dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kṛtvā cāhaṁ kāku-śatam ahaṁ bravīmi. He was a devotee of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he also taught us how to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becoming very humble, humbler... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has also instructed us,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*This time, Kali*-yuga, is very, very fallen. People are very, very much fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. Practically cent percent of the population at the present moment, they're manda. Manda. Manda means of no value, or very bad, manda, or very slow. There are several meanings of manda. So in this age all the people, they are manda. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. And because they are generally very bad, everyone has got a process of spiritual realization. First of all they are not interested, manda. Our real value of life, human being, means spiritual understanding. This is... This human life is meant for spiritual understanding. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Absolute Truth. That is the only business. But on account of being manda, we have invented so many other occupational duties. That is... According to... That is a fact, not according to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, but that is a fact. We may improve the standard of living condition. So living condition, that is bodily concept of life. I am sitting in this comfortable siṁhāsana. That's all. I can sit down also on the floor. It does not make much difference. According to time, circumstances... So life... So we are combination of spirit and matter. This body is matter, and the moving force which is moving this body, that is spirit soul. So we are manda. We are so dull that the highest learned man and the so-called scientist and philosopher, they cannot understand this distinction. They think this body is everything. But that is not the fact. Body is not everything. The moving power of the body is the spirit soul. We are repeatedly trying to convince people this simple truth, but they are so dull-headed they cannot understand. Yes.



*So they have been described as animals. The śāstra, they say, yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. One who is in this bodily concept... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ: "In my country, bhauma... I am born in America or I am born in India, so it is my country." How long you'll remain America? How long you'll remain India? They do not know. But they are mad after this conception of life, bodily conception of life. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit. People in every community, religious community, there is tīrtha. People want (indistinct) holy place. So they go, they take bath. Just like in India they go to Hardwar or Vṛndāvana or Prayag, take bath in the Ganges or Yamunā. Similarly, Christians, they go to take bath in the river Jordan. So everyone has got. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na tad janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. This kind of life is go-kharaḥ. Go means cows, and kharaḥ means ass. Without understanding the value of life, na tad-janeṣv abhijñeṣu, without associating with abhijñaḥ, learned spiritual master, if he passes his life with this understanding, then he is no better than the cows and ass. This is the verdict.

*So therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is very learned man in that time. Because it was Muhammadan time, he used to learn very nicely Arabic and Parsi, Persian language. Just like during British period we had to learn English, similarly, the state language was somewhere Arabic and somewhere Parsi. Sometimes, they are called mixed*-that is called Urdu. So he was learned scholar, and he was also born of very nice brāhmaṇa family, Sanātana Gosvāmī, sārasvata-brāhmaṇa. So born brāhmaṇa family, well-educated, minister, everything, but he presents himself, nīca jāti, nīca-saṅgī, patita adhama, kuviṣaya-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama! He has understood that the so-called, bodily conception that "I am rich man," "I am very learned man," "I am brāhmaṇa" or "I am American," these are useless understanding. One who understands like that, he is... Sanātana Gosvāmī-he's a nīca jāti, the bodily conception of life nīca jāti. Nīca jāti, nīca-saṅgī. Why the bodily concept of life? Because the association is bad. At the present moment we do not get any education or good association to understand our real identity. That is the difficulty. Therefore he says, nīca saṅgī, patita adhama. Adhama means lowest of the mankind; patita means fallen. If one does not understand his real interest, he is called fallen.

*So what is our real interest? By evolutionary process, after going through so many forms of life, jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ, in this way, eight million forms of life, and we have got this human form of life. So this life especially meant for athāto brahma jijñāsā. Simply to understand our spiritual identity, the Absolute Truth, that is the only business. But we are... We have got the intelligence more than the cats and dogs. They cannot inquire about the spiritual identity, and if we keep ourself in darkness without understanding our spiritual identity, then we are no better than the dogs and cats. Therefore he said, nīca jāti: "I have no information about the soul." Nīca jāti. Just like dogs. It is a class. So nīca. Of course, in your country dog is very pet. Now we are learning also, India, how to keep a dog and become aristocratic. (laughter) So now there is big, big dog show in New Delhi. But actually in India, although dog was not neglected, in a neighborhood, if there is a dog, people will give him food but not allow to enter into the house. He'll be not allowed. A dog is also trained up. They'll come to a door and sit down and move his tail: "Give me some food." And people will give. But he's not allowed to enter, the dog or caṇḍālas are not allowed.

*So there is distinction, caste distinction, according to the spiritual advancement. The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these are higher class or lower class according to the spiritual understanding. But one who is elevated in spiritual understanding, he is brāhmaṇa. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. Brāhmaṇa does not mean simply... Of course, in this age brāhmaṇa means vipratve sūtram eva hi. That is also predicted, that if you get one sūtra, one thread, one paisa*-worth, and get it on your body, then you become a brāhmaṇa. No, that is not. Brāhmaṇa is a qualification.

satya śamo damas

titikṣa kṣantir ārjavam

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

*brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam

[Bg. 18.42]



So these things are being lost; *therefore in the Kali*-yuga practically everyone is a śūdra. Patita-adhama, adhama. Narādhamāḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Because people at the present moment are very, very low grade, nīca jāti, nīca-saṅgī, fallen and narādhamāḥ... The same thing is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Those who are narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind and very, very sinful, duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, and rascal, they do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa.



*So to surrender to Kṛṣṇa requires little qualification, and that qualification Sanātana Gosvāmī wanted. Therefore he has approached Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We can follow his footsteps. He is also... He is an ācārya, but it is essential, essential. Don't be assured that you are very highly elevated person. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone*-this is a challenge-everyone is low born. Everyone is nīca, badly associated, fallen, and the lowest of the mankind because he's missing the chance of understanding Kṛṣṇa in the human form life, and nobody knows what he's going to be, next life. So it it a very risky civilization without any understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Be careful. Those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, execute the Kṛṣṇa consciousness business very cautiously so that we may not fall down. There is risk of fall down, but if we stick to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet-mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti-then there is no fear.

Thank you very much. (end)



760427CC.AUC



*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.98-102

-

April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand



Prabhupāda: So this evening I shall speak to you about Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he resigned from his ministership in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah in Bengal and joined Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in His movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So there is a long history how he resigned. He was the trustee of the government. Formerly, although the government was Muhammadan, the best Hindu personality was engaged to take charge of the ministership. Even in Akbar's time the same principle was done. Mahārāja Jayasingh. Even Aurangzeb, he was a very rigid Muhammadan, still, his principal minister was Mahārāja Jayasingh. Similarly, Sanātana Gosvāmī and his brother Rūpa Gosvāmī, they accepted the government service coming from a very respectable brāhmaṇa family. But they were rejected by the brāhmaṇa community because they accepted the service of Muhammadan. Formerly, the Hindu society was very strict. Brāhmaṇas would not accept anyone's service. So Sanātana Gosvāmī, after joining Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he left Bengal. And when Śrīla Caitanya Mahāprabhu was residing in Benares to deliver the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, at that time, his bavarṇasee (?) ... So after he was clean*-shaved... This is one of the items of our movement. If one wants to be initiated, he must be clean-shaved. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was clean-shaved. And after becoming a regular Vaiṣṇava, then he is asking like this:



tabe sanātana prabhura caraṇe dhariyā

dainya vinati kare dante tṛṇa lañā



So he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu in a very humble manner. That is the way of approaching a guru. The Vedic instruction is,



*tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet

*samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



*Samit*-pāṇiḥ, taking that short grass, kuśa. In Sanskrit it is called kuśa. So Sanātana Prabhu approached Him very humbly. That is the way. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*We must approach a bona fide guru for enlightenment. And samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyam: one who has received knowledge by hearing, not by speculating. Nowadays it has become a fashion to speculate. The Vedic injunction is, "No. By hearing." You have to approach the right person and hear. Therefore the whole Vedic literature is called śruti. One has to learn very intelligently by hearing from the authority. The same example we find in Bhagavad-gītā. In the battlefield, where time is very valuable, still, Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is instructing, and Arjuna is hearing. So this hearing process is our Vedic process. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, according to, of course, Vedic injunction: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You haven't got to change your position. It is not necessary that you have to take sannyāsa from gṛhastha life, you have to give up your occupation. No. That is not very important thing. The important thing is This verse was submitted by Lord Brahmā:



jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

*(jīvanti) san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

*sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir

ye prāyaśo ajito 'py asi tais...



If you want to understand God... That is the business of human life. Human life is specially... That is the chance. Because we are in the cycle of birth and death, changing, migrating from one body to another... This is our position. So except human body, lower than the human body, we can understand how they are suffering. Suppose a tree. Here we are sitting so comfortably. A few yards off from this place, there is a tree, and it is standing for thousands of years. Is not that punishment? If I tell Mr. such and such, "You stand up here for five hours," he'll become mad. That is a sort of punishment to the children. Formerly, the punishment was... The teacher, in the class, a naughty boy, he's asked, "Stand up on the bench." Therefore, half an hour to stand up on the bench becomes a very, very intolerable pain for him. So just imagine that the tree, this is punishment, standing in one place. I saw one tree in San Francisco; *they say it is seven thousand years old. So except human form of life, there are eight million different forms of life. And there is little idea in the Darwin's theory of evolution. That is only imitation of the Vedic literature, and he wanted to credit for himself. He presented it pervertedly. But actually, in the Padma Purāṇa the evolution theory is there. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva*-jātiṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of forms in jīva-jātiṣu, the living entities. They're passing through. So this is the chance, human form of life, to get out of this cycle of birth and death. Actually, this is our miserable condition. Kṛṣṇa presents these four things as actually miserable condition. We are trying to remove miseries and get happiness. This is called struggle for existence. Manaḥ ṣaṣthānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūto jīva-loke sanātanaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says that "These living entities, they are My part and parcels, qualitatively as good as I am.'' So the Vedānta-sūtra says, "The living entities or God, they are meant for enjoyment.'' Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature ānandamaya. So "Why I am put into this miserable condition?'' This is the questions by intelligent human being. And if he remains satisfied with the miseries of this material life, then he's no better than the cats and dogs. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].



So this is intelligence, to inquire about the miserable condition of life. So Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says,



nīca jāti nīca saṅgī patita adhama

*kuviṣaya*-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama



*"My dear Sir, although I was born in brāhmaṇa family, but now I am rejected. I am counted amongst the Muhammadans." Because their name was also changed, these two brothers. And even they were rejected by the brāhmaṇa community, and their association was these big, big zamindars, most of them viṣayīs, only concerned with pound, shilling, pence. So about him it is said by Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. These Gosvāmīs, they were very exaltedly posted as minister and were associate Minister means associated with big, big men, big businessmen, big zamindars, like that. So maṇḍala-pati. And big men maṇḍala-pati, who controls a very big circle, especially the zamindars, landholders. So tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. He gave up the association of these big, big men. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Tuccha means, "Eh, what is this? It has no value.'' So this is not ordinary thing, one can give up. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, one may think of this material enjoyment very insignificant. (child making noises) (aside:) The child may be taken out. So he gave up the association and [break]



...the birds, they have no problem. Early in the morning they rise up, and they are certain, somewhere there is some fruit. They will eat and sleep in the top of the tree. They haven't got to make arrangement, economic development. It already is there. But it is very difficult to understand that these material necessities of life is already arranged. You cannot get more, cannot get... Suppose some of our Indian friends, they come to this country, far away. Does it mean that simply by coming here he has become millionaire? No. In Bengali it is said, yadi gar baṅge kaphala yabe saṅge (?), Wherever you go, your this fate will go with you. If you are meant for getting ten thousand, you'll never get ten thousand, one hundred. You'll get, either you remain in your country or go to hell. Destiny. This is called destiny. Therefore śāstra says,



tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

*kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasā

[SB 1.5.18]



*Just like nobody hankers after distress, but we have experienced, distress is forced upon us. So similarly, śāstra says that whatever happiness you are destined to get, wherever you remain, you'll get it by destiny. So there is no need of trying for suppressing distress and getting happiness. Don't waste your time in that way. But you try for that thing which you never got in other different forms of life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This life is meant for this purpose, to understand Kṛṣṇa and God, or God. Yes. That is the only... athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is meant. Not for wasting our time simply with the animal propensities. The modern civilization, modern education, has no information about this. Nobody is trying to understand what is the actual aim of life. There is no such civilization. Therefore he is presenting himself, kuviṣaya*-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama. "Simply in the matter of searching after false happiness I have wasted my time." That he has condemned.



Then he says,



āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jān

*grāmya*-vyavahāre paṇḍita tāi satya māni



*Because brāhmaṇas in India It is A custom is still: whatever he may be, because he's born in a brāhmaṇa family, he's addressed as paṇḍitajī. Paṇḍitajī. So here Sanātana Gosvāmī says, grāmya*-vyavahāre. Grāmya-vyavahāre means in village transaction. "Actually I am not paṇḍita, but the villagers, my neighbors, they call me paṇḍita. And because they call me paṇḍita, I also think that I am a paṇḍita.'' I have seen it in Calcutta. One man was pulling on thela with a sacred thread, and another man, maybe he's village men, he "Paṇḍitajī, pala ela(?)." And he's pulling on thela, he said, "Betaji kag amar(?)." Now this is going on. What is the value of his asirvad(?), blessing, who is engaged in pulling on thela? But this is grāmya-vyavahāre. This is not actual fact. So Caitanya..., by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Sanātana Gosvāmī has learned it that "They called me paṇḍita. It is false address. I am not really paṇḍita.'' Why you are not paṇḍita? You are educated. You are very good scholar in Sanskrit and Parsi. And as in these days English is considered to be very important subject And actually it is. So unless one is educated in English, he's half-educated, still. So he was educated certainly. As a brāhmaṇa he was educated in Sanskrit, and as government officer, he had to learn, in those days, Urdu and Parsi. So he was educated. But he says that "Although they call me paṇḍita and I am, maybe I am little educated. But the difficulty is that I do not know what is the ultimate goal of life, or my real position of happiness.'' Āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni.



*Ask any learned scholar in these days that "What is the ultimate goal of life?" They will say, "Oh, there is no particular end (?). Let us live very happily, and after death everything is finished." I have consulted many men, big, big professors, Indian and foreign. They have no idea of the first education in the Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. There is change of body. There is already change of body. I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. Now the body is changed-I have got this wretched body, old man's body. So all these bodies... That is simple, logical. Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning*-that is the first lesson of Bhagavad-gītā-that,



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Dehinaḥ means the proprietor of the body. But every one of us, thinking "I am this body." They have no first lesson of Bhagavad*-gītā. First lesson only, ABCD, that "You are not this body." This is the first lesson. When Arjuna was talking in bodily relationship, so, and he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru... Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. "There is perplexity. I cannot understand, Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa was his friend, but he accepted Him guru. Accepting guru means if you accept somebody guru, then whatever he will say, you have to accept. Śiṣya. Śiṣya means one who is ruled. So if you voluntarily accept somebody, that "I shall be ruled by you," that is guru. Not that "I shall rule over you by giving some money." Then it is not accepting guru. Guru means in all circumstances. Guror hitam. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam [SB 7.12.1]. Therefore the first training is to live in gurukula, to learn how to respect guru, how to abide by the orders of guru. So Kṛṣṇa is guru. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham [Bg. 2.7]. "I am Your now disciple. Now give, teach me." Then Bhagavad-gītā was begun. Not before that.



*So teaching should not begin unless one accepts the teacher as the ultimate guru. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching the same thing as Caitanya Mahāprabhu will teach Sanātana Gosvāmī. The same process: tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So the teacher, Kṛṣṇa, first of all chastised Arjuna. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhasase: [Bg. 2.11] "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned scholar, but you are engaged in such a thing which is not at all lamentable."



aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



*"One who is learned, paṇḍita, he has no business to consider about this body." Now see, the whole world is concerned with this body, but this is condemned. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Anyone who is accepting this body, which is nothing but combination of tri-dhātu... Or you take the material elements: earth, water, air, fire. Or more explicitly: the skin, blood, bone, urine, stool. You'll find these things. But do you think such intelligent person is created, manufactured, by bone and blood and skin and urine and stool? It's common sense. It is something else, spirit soul. That they do not understand.



*Sanātana Gosvāmī is also placing that grāmya*-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni: "These fools and rascals call me paṇḍitajī, and I accept, 'Oh, I am paṇḍita.' But actually my position, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: I do not know what I am and what is the goal of my life. I am thinking, 'I am this body, and the body is finished then everything is finished.' This is my knowledge." So just compare. This knowledge is going on all over the world, "I am this body." And anyone who is thinking that he's this body, he's no better than cats and dogs. The dog is also thinking like that, "I am this body." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu... It is not my manufactured word. It is stated in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. This body is made of these elements. I can call earth, water, air, fire. Or you..., blood, bone, and so many things. So if the..., take this combination of blood, bone, muscles, and veins, and urine and stool is the life, then he..., you are no better than the cats and dogs. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. So the ass is also thinking like that, a cow is also thinking like that. If you are thinking like that, then you are... So one has to learn what he is.



Then Sanātana Gosvāmī said,



*kṛpā*-kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra

*āpana*-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra



*"My Lord, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, very kindly You went to my place and You have delivered me so that after Your visit I decided to resign from the government service, and I have come to You. So You have delivered me from the pitfalls of this materialistic way of life. Now tell me what is my duty." This is student. This is disciple. Approach a bona fide guru, a spiritual master, and abide by his orders and do accordingly. Then your life will be successful. And if you keep yourself in the darkness, that "I am very rich man. I am very learned man, but unfortunately, I do not know what I am," so what is the use? The Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura: vidyā*-kule hi karibe tāra. So if you do not know yourself, then what your so-called education and high family, high nationality, will help you? Nature's law is different. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. If you do not cultivate spiritual knowledge, if you remain like cats and dogs, then prakṛti, nature, will give you the cats' and dogs' body next life. Suppose you become very big businessman and you have got nice, very big balance and so on, so on, but by your activities you remain like a dog mentality is, then you are going to get the body of a dog. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. The test is at the time of death. At the time of death, if my mentality is different, so according to that mentality I shall get the body. This is called transmigration of the soul. There is no teaching of this science throughout the whole world, and we are trying to educate people. Of course, it is very difficult to understand, but this is the science, that there is transmigration of the soul. And if we do not take care of this, that "What I am going to become next life?" if you simply waste your time simply on the matter of eating, sleeping, mating and defense, then we are wasting our time. This is the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Then he asked,



*ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya

*ihā nāli jāni*-kemane hita haya



*So this is the proposition to the spiritual master, that one must submit that "Actually, I do not know what I am. Am I this body or something else?" I am not this body, that I can understand, because I say, when somebody asks... Even a child, you ask, "My dear child, what is this?" he will say, "It is my finger." He'll never say, "I finger," what to speak of others. If every one of us, we say, "This is my hair, this is my nose," then where is "I"? He doesn't inquire "Where is I?" Then there will be analysis of the body, where is that "I"? Everyone knows "my," but who knows "I"? That is education. That is being submitted by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. So tāpa-traya means three kinds of miserable condition: ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. Ādhyātmika means pertaining to the body and mind. Sometimes we are feeling some ailments in the body-mind is not in good order. This is called ādhyātmika. And ādhibhautika. Ādhibhautika means miseries inflicted by other living entities. Just like there are mosquitos, there are flies, there are birds, there are other animals, or other enemies in the human society: my friend has become enemy, so he's trying to give me some displeasure. So this kind of This is called ādhibhautika. Ādhyātmika. Even nobody gives me any distress, my body will give me distress. If I cannot sit comfortably, if there is some pinching, I am feeling pain. So these things are going on, ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. And other miseries inflicted by providence. Just like there is no rain, excessive heat, excessive cold, famine, pestilence, earthquake. We have no control over. These are ādhidaivika. So we are suffering. Although we may foolishly say If somebody asks his friend, "How are you?'' he says, "Oh, yes, everything is all right.'' Where is "Everything is all right"? You are suffering and This is called māyā. He's suffering, but he will say, "Everything is all right.'' A man is dying on the deathbed, and his friend comes, "How you are feeling?'' "Yes, I am all right.'' (laughter) Now he's going to die, and he says, "I am all right.'' So this is called māyā. They're suffering, but they are accepting, "I am all right.'' Full of anxieties always: "What will happen next?''



*So this is the position. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is placing this plain fact, that ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa... "I do not want to suffer. So there is suffering." That's a fact. Ihā nāhi jāni kemane. "So how I can get out of this suffering, kindly give me lesson." And this is human life. Go to a bona fide guru, try to understand the problems of life, what is the aim of life, how actually we can become happy. This is called brahma*-jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra philosophy, therefore, the first instruction is athāto brahma jijñāsā. Kena Upaniṣad. Why? And that is human life. If you remain silent, never ask "Why I am suffering?" then you are in the category of cats and dog. And when this inquiry begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā, then your human life begins. Otherwise you remain in the category of cats and dog. If you are satisfied with all miserable condition of life... In this country, the Western country, they present television, simply presenting problems. That's all. You have got experience. And they are making plans how to solve these problems. This is going on. Whole day and night, and twenty-four hours. But actually, we are in a place with problems only. And intelligent man must inquire how to solve these problems. But they are inquiring, some of them, but not in the right channel. That should be in the... Just like Arjuna had problems, whether to fight or not to fight. So he approached Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "Kṛṣṇa, I know that the problems, You can make solution.'' Arjuna knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. "Although He's acting as my friend...'' But he knew what Kṛṣṇa is, and therefore he asked. So we are in face of so many problems. Why not approach Kṛṣṇa? What is wrong there? And take Kṛṣṇa's instruction and be happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are opening centers everywhere. Take advantage of this movement and be happy.



Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Gurukṛpā: Questions, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Anybody who would like to address some question to His Divine Grace, please raise your hand and stand up, any questions. (pause)



Prabhupāda: Everything is solved? (laughter)



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You had a question?



Guest: Is it possible to see Kṛṣṇa right now?



Prabhupāda: Why don't you see Him in your back?



Guest: But can't I just see Him?



Prabhupāda: Well, you have no eyes to see.



Guest: Can I see Him within?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: Why? Why is it not so easy? Why can't each one of us...?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is it so difficult to see Kṛṣṇa? Why can't each of us see Him within?



Prabhupāda: You have to become qualified.



Guest: Why do I have to become qualified? Why?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose if there is a big man before you in some big meeting, can you talk with him?



Guest: Why...



Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all answer this. Suppose there is a big meeting going on, and some big man is present. Suppose the President is there. Can you talk with him? Why? Why you cannot talk? For talking we think you require some qualification. It is not that He's so cheap that you talk with Kṛṣṇa immediately.



*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmād

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



So if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, then you have to qualify yourself to talk with Him.



Guest: By His grace, Kṛṣṇa will show Himself to you.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you read Kṛṣṇa book and if you believe, then you see Kṛṣṇa. He's not different from the book.



Guest: But we could read words till the cows come home. What good is that going to do?



Devotee: You have to accept what you read. You can't read with an argumentative attitude, or you can't ask questions in an argumentative attitude. You'll never learn.



Guest: I can only accept what I experience.



Prabhupāda: What is your experience?



Guest: My experience is that I have seen Kṛṣṇa with (sic) me own eyes.



Prabhupāda: You have seen?



Guest: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That's very nice. (devotees laugh)



Guest: It hasn't been hard.



Prabhupāda: That's nice.



Guest: I haven't had to read any words.



Prabhupāda: Oh, then you are perfect.



Devotee: Are there any other questions please?



Prabhupāda: Sit down. You are perfect. (laughter)



Guest: We are all perfect.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: I must speak.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But please, you can speak afterwards. Please sit down.



Prabhupāda: You have already spoken. Don't take the whole time. Let others question.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Others also want to see Kṛṣṇa. Are there any other questions please?



Girl: How can we stop speculating?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can we stop speculating?



Prabhupāda: Stop speculation? Don't manufacture ideas. You take what Kṛṣṇa says. Then it will automatically stop. Speculation, the question of speculation comes when you do not accept what Kṛṣṇa says. If you accept Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa says, then there is no scope of speculation. That is our movement, that "Accept Kṛṣṇa's teachings as it is. Don't speculate; *then it is lost." This is our movement. Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the origin of everything. Everything emanates from Me." If you accept, then it is all right. And if you speculate, you can do that, but our movement is to accept Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā means, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the origin of everything. Here is the person. He says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Accept it. Very simple thing. You are searching after who is the origin of everything, and Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the origin of everything." So if you accept, your question is solved. If you don't accept, go on speculating. There is no difficulty. Difficulty is when you do not accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Then difficulty is. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. And why people do not accept? That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births speculation, when one actually comes to the platform of knowledge, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So we don't find many such jñānavān. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā [Bg. 7.19]. One who's accepted Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, as everything, that kind of mahātmā is very, very rare to be found. It is not very ordinary thing. So anyone who's accepted Kṛṣṇa as everything, he is the greatest mahātmā. Most fortunate. And we can practically see in these modern countries, everyone four or five years or at most ten years, who never heard what is Kṛṣṇa. Now thousand, they are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, because they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā [Bg. 7.19]. You accept blindly or knowingly, the result will be the same. If you touch fire knowingly or unknowingly, it will burn. This is the position. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8], the origin of everything, then the action will be there. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. You'll become the greatest mahātmā. And what is the sign of mahātmā? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. That is mahātmā. He is under the control of daivī prakṛti. As we are controlled by this material nature, a mahātmā is controlled by the spiritual nature. And what is the sign? Bhajanty ananya-manaso, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. This is the sign. Without any division. So these young boys, girls, they're always chanting. That you'll see: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa They are mahātmās. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. These things are there. Very simple thing. You accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme, you follow instruction, you become a great mahātmā. And if you don't accept,



aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

aprāpya māṁ nivartante

*mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani

[Bg. 9.3]



*If you don't accept aśraddadhānāḥ, then you'll never understand what is God, and you'll be rotating in the cycle of birth and death. Mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani. You have to accept this path. There are two paths. Either you accept Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead, or you accept the path of repetition of birth and death. Two alternatives in this human life. Now it is up to you to make your choice which way you want to go.



Guest: After his demise... [break]



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Gurukṛpā: After if one becomes purified, is it possible when he becomes transferred to the spiritual world that he can meet Rūpa Gosvāmī and other great...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided you are pure, purified, you can meet everyone. The condition is purified. Yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpam. That is stated in the... That is purification. No more sinful life. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. A person is always engaged in pious activities. Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 7.28]. So, so long one is infected with sinful activities, he cannot understand, neither he can surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is also explained by Kṛṣṇa:



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*This is the signs. And one who is free from all sinful activities, mahātmā, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. This is the signs. If one is not accepting Kṛṣṇa*-Kṛṣṇa means God-as the Supreme, he's placing himself as the Supreme. Just like so many rascals: "I am God." So such persons are called duṣkṛtina, sinful. Mūḍha. If one is claiming "I am God," how much foolish he is just you can consider. He is under the clutches of māyā, being kicked up by the material energy in so many ways, and he's thinking he is God. So they are duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. That has been explained. So this simple language is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no difficulty. If we actually accept, then our life is...



janma karma ca me divyam

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

[Bg. 4.9]



*So we are trying our bit to understand Kṛṣṇa and to make others to understand Kṛṣṇa. And therefore we have published about eighty*-two books, big books and small books. So we request that you either accept Kṛṣṇa without any hesitation, or try to understand Kṛṣṇa by reading all these literatures. And they are being well received all over the world by big, big professors and other exalted persons. So you can take advantage. Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Many people have brought dakṣiṇā and things like that. Should they bring now?



Prabhupāda: When they want to do?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking that maybe they could do... It was a little bit too crowded for everyone to come up earlier. Perhaps we could have a kīrtana and I could ask those devotees who brought some offering to bring them.



Prabhupāda: As you say. (end)





760705CC.WDC

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.100

-

Washington, D.C., July 5, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: I do not know what is beneficial for me and what is detrimental. Nonetheless, in ordinary dealings people consider me a learned scholar, and I am also thinking of myself as such."



Prabhupāda:



āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāna!

*grāmya*-vyavahāre paṇḍita tāi satya māni



So in India, still, a brāhmaṇa is called paṇḍita, paṇḍitaji. Just like you know our Prime Minister was Paṇḍita Jawaharlal Nehru. He happened to be a Sārasvata brāhmaṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī, he also a Sārasvata brāhmaṇa by caste. But he has placed himself:



*nīca jāti nīca*-saṅgī patita adhāma

*kuviṣaya*-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama



*He could understand that "These people call me paṇḍita." Paṇḍita means one who knows everything. The ultimate paṇḍita is mentioned in the Bhagavad*-gītā, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Paṇḍita means he sees every living entity on the equal level. That is real paṇḍita. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



He's really paṇḍita. That is spiritually. And material paṇḍita, that is also mentioned by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, his moral instruction. He gives description of a paṇḍita:



*mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

*ātmavat sarva*-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



*He never said that anyone who has passed his M.A. degree or Ph.D. degree, he is paṇḍita. No. The test of paṇḍita is here, from moral instruction, that anyone who sees all other woman except his wife as mother, he is paṇḍita. Just see. This is the test. Mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu and para-dravyeṣu, other's property as garbage in the street, nobody touches. And ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, and treat everyone as his own self. If anyone has learned these three things, then he is paṇḍita. And spiritually, when one sees that all living entities, may be in different types of bodies, he is spirit soul, part and parcel of God, then he is paṇḍita.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So these are Vedic instructions, and Sanātana Gosvāmī, although he was a minister in Muhammadan government, Nawab Hussain Shah's, but in touch with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he has come to his knowledge that grāmya*-vyavahāre paṇḍita: "Actually, I am not paṇḍita, but in village, in ordinary common sense, because I happen to be a brāhmaṇa, they call me paṇḍita. I also accept as paṇḍita. But my real position is that I am such a paṇḍita, such a learned man, that I do not know what is good for me. This is my position." He is submitting to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his guru. Why guru is necessary? Tad vijñānārtham. When we are perplexed that "I do not know what is my actually goal of life, what is benefit here for me..." Just like Arjuna did. When he was talking with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms, two friends... But when he saw that the actual solution is not coming, then he submitted himself to Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa, now we are not friends. We are friends, but treat me as Your disciple." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. So "Make me paṇḍita. I am talking all foolishly. I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight and I am denying it. I know that I am deviating from my duties. So how it has happened? What is the cause? So kindly, śiṣyas te, I am submitting myself before You as Your student. Śādhi māṁ prapannam, I am surrendering."



*So one has to learn the philosophy of life from the person superior, spiritual master. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Do not remain puffed-up, that "I am all-learned, I know everything." That is false. One has to submit. In order to know the solution of life, we have to submit to the proper spiritual master. That is essential. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. This is Vedic injunction. This abhigacchet, this word is used when it is meant "must." There is no escape. We have seen big, big personalities... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu; *He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He accepted Īśvara Purī as His guru. Kṛṣṇa, He also accepted His guru as Sāndīpani Muni. Lord Rāmacandra, He accepted His guru as Vasiṣṭha. So it is (not) necessary, Kṛṣṇa or Rāma. They are Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are the supreme instructor, full of knowledge, everything. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya. There is nothing short, but still, to show us example, They accepted guru. That is essential. So here Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is also born in a very well*-to-do brāhmaṇa family. He was well-situated as minister in charge of the government of Hussain Shah. So everything was quite all right, and still, he thought himself as nica jati.

*nīca jāti nīca*-saṅgī patita adhāma

*kuviṣaya*-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama



*If we remain puffed*-up, that "I am born in such and such family. I am educated such and such, and I am posted in such and such post, so now my life is successful," that is false. Life is successful when we understand that... Here it is said, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni. When we understand what is the goal of life, then life is successful. Not the temporary position, "I am getting good salary, I am very nicely posted, I have got good family," and so on, so on. No. One must know the goal of life.



*The goal of life is that... We are fallen in this material world somehow or other. As Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, anādi karma*-phale pori' bhavārṇava-jale. Now when a man is fallen in the ocean or in the water, he's asking help, you cannot say that "How did you fall? What was the cause?" That we shall discuss later on. First of all, save him. So that is the immediately necessity. There is no... Sometimes we are questioned that "How a living entity fallen in this material world?" Yes, that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. Icchā-dveṣa. Actually, we are servants of God. That is our real position. But we sometimes become envious, that "Why shall I become servant of God? This is slave mentality." Sometimes we are accused, the Vaiṣṇavas are, of slave mentality because they want to serve God. And the Māyāvādīs, they think that "We are so exalted that I am as good as God. I am God." That is their position. But actually, nobody is God here. Everyone is servant. He's simply falsely thinking that he's God, he's master, he's this or that. You have got very nice example in the life of Mr. Nixon. He was thinking that he's everything: "I am the President." But now what is his position, you can understand.

*So similarly everyone..., nobody is master. The master is Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. The master is there, that is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is servant. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We living entities, we are eternally servant of God. Kṛṣṇa means God. One who attracts everyone, that is Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by everyone.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. These are the Vedic evidences. So actually nobody can be master; *everyone is servant. Either we are servant of God or we are servant of dog. That's all. Nobody can be master. If anyone has no master, then he keeps a pet dog to become his servant. That is nature, we can see. One is servant of his wife, one is servant of his pet or government service or this service. Nobody can claim that "I am the master." That is not possible. That is also temporary. So actually this is the position of all living entities. Everyone is servant. But in the material sense, he is servant of māyā, servant of senses. Servant of māyā means servant of senses. And spiritual life means instead of becoming servant of māyā or servant of senses, we become the servant of Kṛṣṇa or God. That is the position. Servant we shall remain. We have to change the position. And if we become servant of God, then we become happy, and if we remain servant of dog or māyā, then we remain unhappy. This is the position. We have to change the position. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. One intelligent brāhmaṇa, he's offering, "My Lord, I have become servant of so many senses, but neither the senses are satisfied, neither I am satisfied. This is the result of my service. Therefore now I have got my intelligence that I want to become Your servant." This is intelligence. So I have experienced that I became a servant of my family, servant of my society, servant of my country, and so on, so on, but nobody, neither my so*-called master was satisfied, neither I was satisfied. We see practical examples, there are many examples. In our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he dedicated his life for the service of the country. Nobody can doubt about his service, but what is the result? His master killed him. He worked for his country, he took country as his master, and he worked so hard, and his countrymen killed him. We should take lesson from this that you cannot satisfy in this material world by becoming servant of your family or community, society, nation. No. It is not possible. You can satisfy very easily Kṛṣṇa by little service. By little service. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt.



*So this is intelligence, how to become a servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life. That means mukti. Mukti does not mean you'll get four hands and eight heads. No. Mukti means, as it is defined in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. That is mukti. Sva-rūpeṇa, legally, constitutionally, I am servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Now I have become servant of dog and māyā. So if I give up this service and again become servant of God, that is mukti. That is mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. We are trying to become... Here māyā means "which is not." Ma-ya. We are every one of us, we are thinking, "I am master." "I am the monarch of all I survey." Here is a poetry. Everyone is thinking. I made my plan, I make my survey, and I become king. But that is māyā. You cannot become. You are already servant of māyā.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Everyone is under the clutches of these material laws. You cannot violate even an inch. And still the rascal, ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā, by false prestige, he's thinking that "I am the master." I was asking this morning that what is this independence meaning? Actually, where is independence? This independence, has it meaning? If you are completely under the rules and regulations of the material nature, what is the meaning of this independence? So those who are paṇḍita, they do not take it as independence. They do not take it. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī said, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni. "I do not know what is independence, I am dancing like dog, independence." Therefore he says, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: "How independence I can get, that I do not know." Real independence is, as Kṛṣṇa puts in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. One who is intelligent, he sees that "My real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, birth, death, old age and disease."So when we get free from these four problems, that is real independence. Otherwise, there is no independence. I may dance with independence, but any moment I shall have to leave my country, my society, my friends, my family, any moment, "Get out immediately. No, no independence." That is my position. So that is intelligence.



*So in order to know all these problems of life... Just like Arjuna submitted, and any one has to submit. One has to... Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is teaching us by his personal behavior how to approach the bona fide spiritual master and submit before him and putting himself praṇipā, blank. Not that "I know something, and what my spiritual master can teach? I know everything. There is no need of spiritual master." No. This will spoil our life. The Vedic injunction is that you must have not a so-called guru but... That is also given definition.

tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



*That is the symptoms of guru. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, because we are discussing Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, He said that you become, all of you, become guru. He said. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said,



*bhārata*-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is Indian mission. Para-upakāra. Not exploit others*-to give something. That is Indian mission, that he has to give something. He has nothing to take. He has to give something. And what is that? That Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Even if you cannot deliver the whole world or very expansive area, at least, wherever you are, you just deliver them. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa. "You become a guru by My order." So one may say that "I have no qualification. How can I become a guru or how can I deliver these fallen persons?" So Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Don't be disappointed."



āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Bas. Simply as messenger, as peon, you simply carry the messages of Bhagavad*-gītā, kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Then you become guru. Then you become guru. It is not difficult.



So it is the duty of every Indian not to forget their culture, but bring that culture, pure, wherever you are living and behave yourself to that culture and teach others. That is Indian mission.

Thank you very much. [break] What is that question?



Vipina: Mr. Deyani, you have any questions you would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda?



Mr. Deyani: Well, I just have one thing here, you stated about Gandhi, and we respect that he was really a great leader of us, but stated one point in your lecture, this thing, that Gandhi, mostly, was a servant of the country, but in India, during that period, I didn't see other religious people or the great leaders of India fighting for the country, and they..., he's the one...



Prabhupāda: That is admitted. Why you are bringing that question? I mean to say that Gandhi gave the best service to you, but your country is so ungrateful that he killed him. That is my point. So the point is that the best service you can give, but you cannot satisfy everyone. That is material.



Mr. Deyani: No, but my question, sir, was that at some point you have to be the servant of the God, you will have to be a servant of your family or the country or something to serve.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that I'm already explaining, that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] wherever you are, you deliver them. That is service. That is service. Wherever you are. Either you are in the family or in the community or in the country or anywhere, you simply give them service, deliver them. Without service, how you can deliver them? And you haven't got to discover anything or make research. What is already there, kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa, you teach them, that's all. He'll be delivered. You'll be delivered, he'll be delivered. It is not at all difficult. Not that I have to manufacture some transcendental means. No. The already instruction is there, kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Then you deliver yourself, you deliver others also. That is the mission. So what we are doing? We are not discovering anything. We are simply presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. Kṛṣṇa said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We are teaching all over the world the same thing, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa. You always think of Him, you just offer your obeisances, you just become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, worship." So we are teaching. So there is no discovery. It is already there. So that we are carrying simply. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We don't interpret. There is no need of interpretation; *then there is no authority of Bhagavad*-gītā. If I am a third-class man, if I interpret Bhagavad-gītā, then Bhagavad-gītā has no authority. Bhagavad-gītā should be preached as it is. Then you become guru, you can deliver others. This is the process. (indistinct) Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes when we go preaching, people do not want to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sometimes they actually...



Prabhupāda: So if they want to take, then where is the question of preaching? Because they do not want to take, you have to preach. Otherwise, where is the necessity of preaching? You have to prepare yourself in such a way that nobody is dying for your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but you have to convince him that your life is spoiled without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is your capacity. They are under the clutches of māyā. They are thinking... [break]



Women: ...convinced that they have some revelation or some experience that is assuring them of eternal life. So they are not very open to hear about Kṛṣṇa, and they...



Prabhupāda: If they are not open to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then don't waste your time. The simple thing. There are four things. For a preacher, there are four things:



*īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu

bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca

*prema*-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā

yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ



*When in the lower stage of devotional service, he cannot become preacher. When he's in a little upper, second stage, he can become preacher. So preacher has to see four things. First of all God, īśvara, and tad*-adhīneṣu, and those who are devotees. God, His devotees, and bāliśa, innocent. He does not know anything about... So three: God, devotee, and the innocent. And dviṣat, envious, atheist class. He has to see four things, and he has to deal with four persons differently. With God, īśvare prema: how to advance my love for God, these dealings. Prema-maitrī, and to the devotees, we have to make friendship with them. Prema-maitrī. And to the innocent, we have to preach, kṛpā: "Oh, here is an innocent person. He does not know; he's eager to learn." There teaching is required. Teaching, you cannot teach God or you cannot teach God's devotees. But you can teach the innocent. And those who are dviṣat, atheist, upekṣā, don't go there, save yourself. These are the four things. So when one is not open to hear, then don't bother yourself. That requires very strong preacher to convince the atheist class, provided he is reasonable also. If he's stubborn, obstinate, then it is also very difficult. But preaching is meant, innocent, that one who is actually sincere but he does not know what is God, what is my relationship with God, there is necessity of preaching. Not to the envious or those who are already advanced, or to God. This is the... Hmm. Bālīya. (indistinct)



Indian man: Prabhupāda, you are giving a very simple process, which is... I can confirm by (indistinct) ...it is not (indistinct) Indians coming? Why? They are exposed to Kṛṣṇa from their birth; still they are not interested. Nobody wants to listen.



*Prabhupāda: Because they have become bara*-sab. Especially in the foreign countries, they become bara-sab. So that is the misfortune of India. They are giving up their culture and being misguided. So if they actually feel that they must maintain their own culture, then it is not difficult. It is the duty of every Indian, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that,



*bhārata*-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*If that mentality is developed, that "In India we were born, we have got the greatest culture, recognized by all the world. So I must make my life successful by taking this culture and distribute it to the whole world," that is real Indian culture. If... They are thinking that they are poverty*-stricken. Poverty-stricken because they have given their own culture; *therefore poverty*-stricken. Otherwise, there is no question of poverty-stricken. So anyway this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message, that every Indian should take advantage of the great culture, Vedic culture, and make his life successful, and after acquiring mature knowledge he should distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's...



Indian man: (indistinct) How can we (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: By preaching. If you preach, then you'll meet with so many obstacles, and you have to prepare yourself how to meet the obstacles. Then you become strong preacher. Resistance. There is no difficulty, but if there is difficulty, atheist class of men, and it is very difficult, so take innocent, those who are actually eager to know. Everyone should be. That is the human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is human civilization. Everyone should be inquisitive to know about the Absolute Truth, Brahman, but education is different nowadays. People are interested with hammer, how to play on hammer, that's all, technology. There is no question of Brahman. Let Brahman go to hell, now take out the hammer. That Russian emblem? Hammer? And scythe? That's all. Yes?



*Indian man: Prabhupāda, the basic confusion is that the Māyāvādīs take Bhagavad*-gītā, they can recite the same Sanskrit words and interpret it in their way and convince someone that the ultimate Brahman is impersonal and the (indistinct) Brahman, Kṛṣṇa is only a technique.



*Prabhupāda: That means they misinterpret and they misguide. So people should be intelligent enough that they are impersonalists but Bhagavad*-gītā means Kṛṣṇa, the person, He is teaching. Where is the impersonalist? But nobody has any common sense even that Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi bhūtānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. This aham is person, so how He can be imperson? And He's talking personally with Arjuna. So how He is imperson? Can the air talk with you? Air is imperson. Sky is imperson. Can he talk with you? What do you think? No, sometimes talks. (laughter) So we should have common sense, that where is the question of... And Kṛṣṇa says in the Second Chapter that "My dear Arjuna, both you, Me and all these soldiers and kings who are assembled here, we existed in the past, we are now existing, and we shall continue to exist in the future." So three things: first person, second person and third person. I am first person, you are second person and all others third person. So they existed individually in the past, they are existing now, and they will continue to exist like that. Then where is imperson? There are three things, three different phases, past, present and future. In all the times, if they are individual, where is imperson? Rather, Kṛṣṇa has condemned, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam manyante mām abuddhayaḥ [Bg. 7.24]. Those who are rascals, they think avyaktam, impersonal. Now He has become person. Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām. Mām means individual person. Abuddhayaḥ: he has no intelligence. So how He can be imperson? So we have to take the words of Bhagavad-gītā and then we understand. Why we should be misled by these so-called interpreters?



Indian man: They say that if you develop pure love of Kṛṣṇa, then you'll see only Kṛṣṇa. Your own personality is...



Prabhupāda: But anyway, but Kṛṣṇa, if you think of Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa person, He's not imperson.



Indian man: No, but they..., they say that has happened.



Prabhupāda: They say that if you think of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is a person. So you have to begin with person.



Indian man: But they also say one can go directly to Brahman.



*Prabhupāda: Never says, Kṛṣṇa never says in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



Indian man: This is my basic confusion.



*Prabhupāda: Confusion... How you should be confused? Where is Kṛṣṇa says? The basic (indistinct) is in person? Kṛṣṇa's teaching personally. Where is the imperson? Why you should be misled unless you are also one of them. Kṛṣṇa is always person. He's always speaking aham. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Person. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Mattaḥ. This, ahaṁ-śabdaḥ, is used. So they misinterpret just to mislead people; *therefore whole India has become godless. This is the misfortune of India. On account of these impersonalists, Māyāvādīs, India is now godless. Very difficult position. So don't be misled by these rascals. Take real Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. Then you'll be benefited. That's all. (end)





661122C2.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.100-108

-

New York, November 22, 1966



Prabhupāda:



āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni

*grāmya*-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni



kṛpā kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra

*āpana*-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra



So Sanātana Gosvāmī, he's ācārya in this disciplic succession from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Caitanya. He is the first disciple of Lord Caitanya, and from him, Sanātana Gosvāmī, six Gosvāmīs. There were six among the first followers of Lord Caitanya. And then, from next step comes Raghunātha Gosvāmī and then this author of this book, Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, and from him, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, and then from him, Viśvanātha Cakravartī, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa. In this way this disciplic succession is coming from Lord Caitanya. So as ācārya... Ācārya means one who knows the principles of scripture, properly being initiated by authority who knows things as they are, and they apply those things in their own life. They are called ācārya. Acinoti śāstrāṇi: he must know all the principles from authorities, and he should apply in his life those principles. Not that he knows but does not apply. He cannot be ācārya. Āpani ācari prabhu jīva disa (?). Lord Caitanya, He, although He is accepted as the, I mean to say, the personal, He's Kṛṣṇa Himself, still, He behaved in such a way that others can follow. He also accepted Īśvara Purī. Īśvara, Īśvara Purī was His spiritual master, Lord Caitanya's. This is the disciplic succession.



*Now, how to present himself before the spiritual master? He said that "Actually I am not learned, because I do not know my own position, what I am. But people say that 'You are paṇḍita,' and I am puffed*-up, and I think, 'Yes, I am paṇḍita, I am learned.' " This is the situation of the world. Everyone who has no spiritual knowledge, who does not know what he is, still, he is very much proud that he's very learned. So such kind of learning may be praised materially, but spiritually it has no value. Spiritually it has no value, because this is temporary, temporary. Just like by force, so many people is posted on the king's position, but after five years, ten years, again he's a common man. So similarly, all this material acquisition, they have no permanent value. Therefore those who are actually learned, they don't give any importance to this material acquisition. So Sanātana prabhu is, by his personal behavior, he's presenting himself that "People say that I am very learned, but actually I am not learned." This should be the position. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttama. Now, "Because I am not learned, and very kindly You have delivered me from the māyā of illusion, kindly now let me know what is my duty." This is the position. One should present himself to the spiritual master, not that... We have to first of all select spiritual master. The selection is required. Because as soon as you accept one spiritual master, you cannot say that "I don't agree with you." No. That you cannot say. Then it is useless, simply waste of time. First of all you have to select a person who is actually representative. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī is representative of, I mean to say, Lord Caitanya. Just like Arjuna is representative of Kṛṣṇa, because he's directly receiving instruction from Kṛṣṇa, and he's assimilating it; therefore, he is representative. So this is the paramparā system. So we have to select a person who is actually representative of the Supreme. Then we have to surrender, and then we can... Of course, before (indistinct) and do not understand, we must put our questions, then the procedure is nice.

*So here, Sanātana Gosvāmī's asking that ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. "Now I place myself that I do not know, but I request You to explain what I am." Now this "what I am..." Sanātana Goswami is such a learned man, he's asking from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "What I am, I cannot know." If one thinks, "What I am?" I shall think myself that "There are so many foolish people, they're meditating, 'What I am? What I am?' 'What I am,' you are a foolish. You cannot know, 'What I am?' " Just like Arjuna did not know what he is. He thought that "I am this body, and these persons who are in relationship with my body, they're my own men, they're my kinsmen." That was his knowledge. So you cannot know, we cannot know "What I am." A superior authority will let you know what you are. You cannot know. This is the mistaken idea, that "I shall find out what I am." No. You cannot know. Just see. Sanātana Gosvāmī said that ke āmi: "Kindly, as You have very kindly delivered me from this illusory position, now I am surrendered soul to You. Please let me know what I am." Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. Tāpa-traya means three kinds of material miseries. Tāpa means miseries; *traya means three. So, "What I am, and why I am placed in this miserable condition of material nature?" This is called jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. This inquiry should be in the human form of life. Then his life is perfect. Ke āmi. In the Brahmā Sūtra it is called athāto brahma jijñāsā, and in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: [SB 11.3.21] "One who is inquisitive to inquire, to understand about his real position, he should accept a spiritual master." Not a formality.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is being asked, ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. Tāpa-traya means threefold miseries. What are these threefold miseries? They are miseries pertaining to this body and mind; miseries pertaining to the, I mean to say, disturbance of material nature; and miseries pertaining to the other living entities. We are always under threefold miseries. We may accept or not accept; *that is our position. I am in miserable condition due to others' arrangement*-my enemies, other animals or other enemies. And I am in miserable condition due to material disturbances, nature's disturbances. And I am always under miseries due to my bodily and mental conditions. These called, these are called threefold miseries. So out of these three... We are always under three kinds of miseries, but sometimes one is slackened, other is greater, in this way, but we are always under miserable condition. When a sane man comes to this understanding, he is eligible for spiritual evolution. And one is dull, who cannot understand what are these miseries, then he has no need of approaching a spiritual master or inquiring about transcendental subject. Just like a man who is not, I mean to say, aware of his disease, he does not go to a physician. He thinks, "I'm all right." Just like the drunkards in the Bowery Street. They think that "We...," they're all right. There, there is nothing miserable condition for them. But what do they know about miserable...? They are so much accustomed to this miserable condition that they cannot understand what is meaning of his miserable condition. Yes.

So when people are in this lowest stage of ignorance, they cannot understand what is needed. But when they are elevated, just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, they..., he goes to a bona fide spiritual master like Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His representative and asks, "What are the causes of my miseries, and what I am? What is my position?"

*'ke āmi', 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya'

ihā nāhi jāni-'kemane hita haya'



"And I also do not know what is the path of my welfare."



*sādhya*-sādhana-tattva puchite nā jāni

kṛpā kaha ta' āpani kari' saba tattva



"And I also do not know how to place my question." Yes. The blank slate. Completely. "I do not know, but I am feeling that I am in a miserable condition, but kindly explain me, what is my duty, what I am, and why I am fallen in the miserable condition? So You kindly explain to me."



*prabhu kahe*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā tomāte pūrṇa haya

*saba tattva jāna, tomāra nāhi tāpa*-traya



*And Lord Caitanya encourages him that "Because you have come to this understanding, now all your miseries are over. All your miseries are over." Just like a man suffering from certain kind of disease, if he approaches a right physician, that means he is beginning of, beginning of..., ending of all diseases is there. Similarly, if we can find out a bona fide spiritual master, and if we are actually anxious to end our miserable life, then it is actually done. The beginning is there. Saba tattva jāna, tomāra nāhi tāpa*-traya. "Now don't be discouraged. You have no threefold miseries. Because you have come to this position, therefore you are above all these threefold miseries."



*kṛṣṇa-śakti dhara tumi, jāna tattva*-bhāva

*jāni' dārḍhya lāgi' puche*-sādhura svabhāva

[Cc. Madhya 20.105]



A sādhu, a sage or a devotee, although he knows everything, still, he always places himself as he does not know anything. He never says that "I know everything." But actually, it is not possible to know everything. That is not possible. But one... Just like Sir Isaac Newton, he agrees that people say, "I am very much learned, but I do not know how much I have learned. I am simply collecting some pebbles on the sea shore." So that is the position. If a man who is actually learned, he'll never say that "I am learned." He'll simply say, "I am the fool number one. I do not know."



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his humbleness, because actually he was a very learned and very man of position in the society, so as a matter of reciprocation, exchange of, I mean to say, etiquette, he also accepted, "No, you are not fallen. You don't be discouraged. Simply it is the duty of any learned man to place himself like that. But you are not fool." Kṛṣṇa śakti dhara tumi: [Cc. Madhya 20.105] "Because you are already devotee." Before retirement, and before coming to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, these Gosvāmīs, as I told you, they're very learned Sanskrit scholar. They used to read Bhāgavata. When he gave false report to the Nawab Shah, that "I am not well. I cannot attend office," then Nawab Shah went to his house one day personally, that "This gentleman is not attending office and simply submitting sick report. What is that?" So when he approached and Nawab Shah saw that he's engaged with learned paṇḍitas reading Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, then he understood, "Oh, this is your disease. You are now taken to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." So actually he was very learned, but out of his humble behavior he is submitting himself to Lord Caitanya in this gentle way.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

*sad*-dharmasyāvabodhāya

yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ

acirād eva sarvārthaḥ

sidhyaty eṣām abhīpsitaḥ



He says that "Your desire is to get perfection; *therefore you are so much humble." So he quotes one verse from Nāradīya Purāṇa, that anyone who is very serious, one who is serious about knowing himself perfectly, and if he seeks in that way, then his perfection is guaranteed. The only thing is that one should be very serious. The purport, purport of this verse is sad*-dharmasyāvabodhāya yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ. Nirbandhinī matiḥ means he has already determined that "In this life I shall make my life perfect." Then, for him, perfection is guaranteed. If he thinks, "Oh, let me try. Let me test also this department of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, at the same time test other departments. Let us go this way..." No. One should be very much serious to make complete perfection in this life. So a man should be serious like Sanātana Gosvāmī. And for that purpose he sacrificed everything, he became a beggar. So we should be prepared to sacrifice anything for perfection of this human form of life. Then perfection is guaranteed. Simply we should be very serious, that's all.



*Now, Lord Caitanya says that "Yes. I will have to give you instruction." Actually, this Sanātana Gosvāmī is eternal associated, associate of Lord Caitanya. Just like Arjuna, he's also eternal associate of Kṛṣṇa. Now, he placed himself as an ordinary man, and as if he was in illusion of this relationship of this body. Actually he was not so, but by the energy of Kṛṣṇa he was so*-called illusion. Otherwise he would not place himself in that condition, would not question Kṛṣṇa, then Bhagavad-gītā would not come. That is the purpose. Just like playing. He is similarly the sum of the associates of Lord Kṛṣṇa. When Lord Kṛṣṇa, His incarnation comes on this earth, His associates are also present there without. So some of the associates, they play like this, a fool, a personality like this ordinary man, and they question to the Lord, and the answer is there for the benefit of us. Just like Lord Caitanya, He's supposed to be Kṛṣṇa Himself. Because people derided at Him when He was actually present as Kṛṣṇa-avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā: [Bg. 9.11] "Foolish persons deride at Me because I am playing just like a man"-so He came again as a devotee, Lord Caitanya, how to teach, how to grasp Kṛṣṇa bhakti, devotional service. So He practically demonstrated. So He is eternal as Sanātana Gosvāmī is also, he is eternal associate. So as if he is taking lesson, representing ourself, he is taking lesson from the Lord. The Lord is confirming that,

*yogya*-pātra hao tumi bhakti pravartāite

krame saba tattva śuna, kahiye tomāte



*The Lord is also... This is a process. It is the duty of the spiritual master to select a disciple, and at the same time it is the duty of the disciple to select a spiritual master. Now the selection is very nice. Sanātana Gosvāmī is the right person to understand the science of devotional service, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the right person to give lesson to the disciple about this science. So He says, yogya*-pātra: "You are just the proper person to understand this science of devotion." Now, krame saba tattva śuna, kahiye tomāte: "Now I shall gradually explain to you about this devotional service, and you'll understand."



*Now the first question was, of Sanātana Gosvāmī, that is, that should be the first question of everyone: "What I am?" Because if I do not know what I am, there is no question of my duties and my destination, everything. Everything will depend first to know what I am. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā Arjuna did not know what he was; *therefore Kṛṣṇa first of all taught him that "You are not this body. You are not this body." That was the first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yau... [Bg. 2.13]. "You are so much absorbed in bodily conception of life, and you are thinking that you are a learned man. That is your foolishness." In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the first instruction of Lord Kṛṣṇa is there, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "You are thinking, you are talking with Me just like a very learned man. You are arguing with me. But from your behavior I can understand you are a fool number one." Because such kind of talk is never, I mean to say, placed by a learned man. So indirectly He said that "You are a fool." And "Why you are fool?" He said that "You are not this body. You are changing every moment your body. Why don't you think that you are not this body? Why you are identifying yourself as with the body?" Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: [Bg. 2.13] "You are changing your body at every moment. From the mother's womb up to the death point, you are changing every body. Then why you are thinking that you are body? But you are the same. In spite of all changes, you are the same." I think, my childhood, I think that I am the same. I forget that I am so much grown-up. That is my position. So the first lesson, the inquiry of Śrī Caitanya, of Sanātana Gosvāmī, is that "What I am? What I am?" Arjuna did not place himself "What I am?" but here, because the instruction which is given in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta is practically higher than Bhagavad-gītā*-it is postgraduate study, higher than Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā the, Arjuna, he did not question "What I am?" He was perplexed with this bodily conception. Now here, Sanātana Gosvāmī he, he thinks that "I'm not..., I do not know what I am." So he's advanced than Arjuna. He accepts that "I do not know."

*So because he inquired that ke āmi*-ke āmi means "What I am?"-therefore Lord Caitanya directly informs him first that jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. Jīva, the living entity, is eternally a servitor of the Supreme Lord. Eternal. He gets, He says, jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa. That is his identity. So he refused all nonsensical ideas that "I am God, I am equal with God." In the first beginning, he refused this idea, that "This is wrong. You are living entity. Your position is that you are eternally servitor of Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord."

Now we shall continue tomorrow. Any questions? (end)



751109CC.BOM

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.100-108

-

Bombay, November 9, 1975



Prabhupāda: So, last Sunday we were discussing about Sanātana Gosvāmī's meeting with Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sanātana Gosvāmī was the finance minister of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then Pathan government of Bengal. So he resigned his office. The Nawab was reluctant to give him release. He was arrested, but somehow or other he released himself by bribing the superintendent of jail and he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares, or Vārāṇasī. And for two months He gave him instruction how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



So approaching the guru, Sanātana Gosvāmī, his submission was that "People in general, they talk of me as very learned scholar." He was very good scholar in Sanskrit, in Arabic and Persian language because he was minister, very responsible post. So... And he was born in brāhmaṇa family, Sārasvata brāhmaṇa family. So naturally he was supposed to be very learned scholar, paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa paṇḍita. Still we address a brāhmaṇa as paṇḍitajī. Never we address a brāhmaṇa as mūrkhajī. So, that is the etiquette. Brāhmaṇa means he must be very learned scholar and a very advanced devotee. Brāhmaṇa paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. These are the qualification of brāhmaṇa. So naturally he was addressed as paṇḍitajī, but he denied to accept that he is actually paṇḍita. So he submitted that,

*grāmya*-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita satya kari māni

āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni



*That "People, they address me as paṇḍita, but I am such a paṇḍita that I do not now what I am." This is the position of everyone. Everyone is very much proud of his learning, scientific knowledge and so on, so on. But if you ask him, "What you are?" "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am American." This is the answer you'll get. But that is, I am not. I am not this body. This is the beginning of paṇḍita. This is the beginning. Bhagavad*-gītā teaches in the beginning this primary lesson, that "You are not this body."



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*So this is the problem, dehātma*-buddhi, identifying oneself with this body. That is condemned in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ sa eva go-kharaḥ: [SB 10.84.13] "Anyone who is identifying himself with this body, he is no better than the cows and the asses, animal." This is... The whole Vedic civilization is based on this principle, that one has to learn first of all that he is not this body. Then further advancement. If one keeps himself under this misidentification that "I am this body," he remains an animal.



*So Sanātana Gosvāmī submitted to his guru. This is the actually necessity of approaching a guru, not that guru should be approached for some material gains, for some medical help: "Guru Mahārāja, I am suffering from this disease. Give me your blessing," and he gives some powder and you are cured. So for this purpose there is no necessity of guru. You can go to a medical man. Then he can help you. Why should you search out a guru? But that has become a fashion. For some material gain they would go to guru. And if the guru can manufacture gold, then what to speak of? This is going on. But śāstra does not say that you should approach a guru for some material benefit. No. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. You should approach a guru*-what purpose? Jijñāsuḥ, if you are inquisitive, jijñāsuḥ. What is that jijñāsuḥ? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta. Jijñāsā, enquiry, means not for any other purpose, any political, social or this... So many things are there in this material world. But real jijñāsā is brahma-jijñāsā. That is, the Vedānta-sūtra begins.

*So the same thing is confirmed in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, because Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural comment on Vedānta-sūtra. When Vyāsadeva was not satisfied even after giving the Vedānta-sūtras, Brahma-sūtras, then his spiritual master advised him that "You write something simply on the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; *otherwise you cannot be satisfied." Then he, on the basis of Vedānta*-sūtra, he wrote a commentary, bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānām **. Therefore in each end of chapter of Bhāgavatam you'll find, brahma-sūtrasya bhāṣyayam. So the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural comment on Vedānta-sūtra by the author himself. So the Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā, unless one is inquisitive to understand about Brahman or the supreme spirit or the basic principle of our life...

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

buddhes tu ya para saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



*So Brahman means... Generally we are identified with this body. Body means the senses. We take prominent the senses. Whole world is going on on the sense perception, sense gratification. So indriyāṇi parāny āhuḥ. The indriyas are very prominent in materialistic way of life. Indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. Then, above the indriyas, there is the mind. Just like philosopher, psychologist or scientist, who are thoughtful, thinking, they are also on the mental platform. The ordinary men, they are on the bodily platform like animal, sense gratification. And little higher than that*-indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ-those who are on the mental platform. But mental platform will not help us. It is said, mano-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. Mano-rathena. If one is on the mental platform, naturally he has no higher information. He'll glide down again to the material platform. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. So simply mental speculation, the whole world, the scientists... They are working on the mental platform. Therefore today they fix up, "This is the conclusion," and tomorrow, another conclusion, another conclusion, because it is mental platform. So above the mental platform, intellectual platform, and above the intellectual platform is the spiritual platform, and that is called Brahman platform. So athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should be inquisitive on the spiritual platform. That is success of life.



Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī is submitting that "Actually they address me as (paṇḍita), but I am not paṇḍita, because I am on the mental platform and the sensual platform, not even intellectual platform." And above that intellectual platform is the spiritual platform. So the śāstra says that one should be inquisitive on the spiritual platform. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Uttamam means spiritual. Tama means material, and jyoti means spiritual. So Vedic instruction is tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in the dark, material platform. You just approach a spiritual platform." These are the Vedic civilization. One should be inquisitive about... Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Ut means udgatam, transcendental. There is no tama, there is no darkness. So uttamam, that is uttamam. This word uttama, uttama means not of this material world: beyond this material world. That is called uttama. So if one is inquisitive about the spiritual world, jīvasya tattva jijñāsā, that is tattva.

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*Everything is there, and we are trying to present them in our so many books. Unfortunately we are not interested. That is another thing. Anyway, so a guru is necessary for him, not for some asirbhat, for curing some material disease or getting some gold. No. He has no necessity for guru. Guru is necessary for that person who is inquisitive about understanding Brahman. Jīvasya tattva*-jijñāsā.



*So the Sanātana Gosvāmī came to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, accepted Him as guru, not for any material benefit. Because he was minister... Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. He gave up his position, very high position. What is that? Aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. Because he was minister, his associates, his friends, his business was with big, big men of the state, maṇḍala-pati, big zamindars, big kings, big ministers, big so on. Everyone is big. But he preferred to give them up, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat, that "What is the use of this association?" Sadā tucchavat. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. And he preferred to do something beneficial to the public, bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau, in the public, general public. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. This was the business, not that he was very busy while he was minister and when he retired he became a dull and sat down in one place. No. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. He was studying different types of literatures and scriptures. Why? Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau: just to establish real purpose of religiosity. Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. These are the qualifications of six Gosvāmīs.

*So these Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, they were the principal disciples of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, six Gosvāmī. Śrī rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa raghunātha, śrī jīva gopāla bhaṭṭa dāsa raghunātha. All of them were very, very big, stalwart scholars, ministers, rich men, zamindars. They all joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu just to help Him to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a sentimental movement. It is meant for the learned scholars and highly situated person. Bhagavad*-gītā is also that. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. The Bhagavad-gītā was not meant for any third-class man. Rājarṣi. Rājarṣi, great kings, at the same time saintly. Not kings of the present day. Saintly kings, rājarṣi. So these Vedic literatures, they are meant for the high-class men, brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind, so merciful, that He has made a process that anyone can take it. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. Therefore His name is Patita-pāvana. In this age everyone is fallen, everyone is fallen, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu is called "the deliverer of the fallen," patita-pāvana.

*patita*-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra

mo sama patita prabhu nā pāibe āra



This is the approach. One should approach Caitanya Mahāprabhu very humbly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also instructed, to advance in spiritual consciousness one should be very humble, meek. That is the instruction of all scripture. One should not be falsely puffed up. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us,



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



One should be tolerant.



*So anyway, this Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is approaching Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu very humbly and tolerantly, putting himself that he is fool number one. Yes. Grāmya*-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita: "These general people, they do not know what is a paṇḍita, but they call Me paṇḍitajī, but actually I know what kind of paṇḍita I am. I do not know what I am." Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita satya kari māni. So his first proposal is, ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya: "What is my position? What I am? I do not want to suffer, but in this material world, three kinds of suffering are always there, and they are giving me trouble." This consciousness is not there. People have become so dull-headed that they are always suffering by three kinds of suffering: adhyātmika, adhibhautika and adhidaivika; *still, they are thinking they are very happy. This is called māyā. This morning we were discussing. Āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. Māyā has got a covering power so that everyone, even he's a cat and dog, he's thinking that he is very happy. This is māyā. Nobody can be happy in this material world. That is the fact. Why? Kṛṣṇa says. The creator of this world, He says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: [Bg. 8.15] "It is the place for suffering. How you can be happy? It is meant for suffering." But people are thinking they are happy or, if they make this plan executed, then they will be happy. You see. Nobody is happy. Big, big politician, they plan so many things. Unfortunately they never become happy, and we have got many examples-we do not wish to discuss-but it is a fact that this place is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. The great authority, Kṛṣṇa, says. And here is a realized, soul, Sanātana Gosvāmī. He said that "Why I am subjected to so many miserable condition?" This is a fact. Duḥkhālayam. This alayam, this place, is for suffering, Duḥkhālayam, and aśāśvatam, and you cannot stay here for long time. Even if you think that it is very happy place, you'll not be allowed. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. So actually it is not the place for enjoyment, but under the spell of māyā we are thinking that this is a place for happiness. And what is that happiness? Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. The happiness is based on sex life, maithunādi. That's all. This is the material happiness. Therefore everyone within the universe, you'll find the plan of happiness on the sex life. I try to enjoy on sex life. Then, on account of sex life, there are children. So I try to make them them happy-the same sex life. The grandchildren*-the same sex life. Because we do not know anything else. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham.

So that is not happiness. Happiness is different thing. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. If you want happiness, that is spiritual happiness, not material happiness. So when he submitted that "Why I am suffering from these threefold miseries, adhyātmika, adhibhautika?" so that is real approaching of the spiritual master, that "Why I am suffering?" not that "Give me some mantra and medicine. I become happy. " No. The question should be... Just like if a person is serious to consult a physician, not that "Immediately give me some tablet. I become happy." No. The root disease must be treated. That is the relationship between the patient and... So Sanātana Gosvāmī is intelligent person, most intelligent person. He was minister. Without being very intelligent, one cannot be minister. So he said that "Why I am suffering? What is my position? What I am?" Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says directly,

*jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya*-dāsa,

kṛṣṇera taṭasthā-śakti bhedābheda prakāśa

[Cc. Madhya 20.108]



*sūryāṁśa*-kiraṇa yaiche agni-jvālā-caya

*svābhāvika kṛṣṇera tina*-prakāra śakti haya



*Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is beginning the identification of the living entity from the end of Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is demanding at the last instruction, "The most confidential part of knowledge I am giving you, My dear Arjuna, because you are My dear friend." So what is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the most confidential part of... It is not understood by general public, but this is the only knowledge, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Kṛṣṇa came, appeared on this planet, for dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. He did not come to establish the conception of Hindu religion and Muslim religion or Christian religion or this religion. No. Real religion. Real religion. What is that real religion? To surrender unto the Supreme Lord. That is real religion. So just like our real citizens means..., citizenship means that we surrender to the government regulation, similarly, dharma means dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. You cannot manufacture dharma as you cannot manufacture law at home. That is not. Now they are manufacturing and it is being supported, yata mat tata pat. Whatever... [break]...manufacture, it is all right. It cannot be all right. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the Supreme. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Everything is being conducted under His instruction. The sun is rising exactly at time. Yasyājñaya bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. These are description in the Vedic literatures.



*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahānāṁ

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñaya bhramati sambhṛta kāla*-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*The sun, the most powerful planet within this universe, the eyes of the universe... Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahānām. Without sunrise, however expert you may be in science, you cannot see even. Therefore real eye*-the sun. Any sane man will admit. Now it is darkness at night. Have any scientists any instrument to show that everything is visible? No. That is not possible. The real eyes. This is subsequent, secondary eyes. We are very much proud of our eyes, that "Can you show me God?" Are you able to see God? What is the value of your eyes? As soon as there is darkness, your eyes are finished. And you are so much proud, oh. Therefore Vedic injunction-śāstra-cakṣuṣa: "You must be seeing everything through the śāstra, not with your these rascal eyes." It has no value. Śāstra-cakṣuṣa. Tasmād śāstra-vidhān uktam, Kṛṣṇa said. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. The direction is the śāstra. You should see through the śāstra what is what. Then you'll be benefited. If you simply believe on your senses... The whole world, philosophers, scientists, they are going on on their own imperfect senses. Therefore everything is rascaldom. It is imperfect. It is not real knowledge. Śāstra-cakṣuṣa. You should know things through the śāstra, guru. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. This is... If you want to know something, then it must be confirmed by sādhu, śāstra and guru. Then it is complete. And if you speculate, if you establish something under speculation, then it is not right. It is wrong.



*Therefore Kṛṣṇa, when He appeared on this planet, His last instruction was that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ: [Bg. 18.66] "You just surrender to Me, and after giving up all your mental speculation, so-called religious system..." This is real religious system. So He left behind Him the Bhagavad-gītā to open our eyes, but we did not take much care of it. Therefore five hundred years ago Lord Caitanya appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He practically taught how to accept instruction of Kṛṣṇa.

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*He also appeared as devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He can command, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], but here Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared as a devotee, ideal devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Caitanya.



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*The Rūpa Gosvāmī offered his first prayer to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You are the mahā*-vadānyāvatāra, most munificent incarnation." Why? Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "Even Kṛṣṇa could not convince people about His supremacy, but You are so kind that You are giving love of Kṛṣṇa." Love of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift.



*So the same Caitanya Mahāprabhu is instructing Sanātana Gosvāmī what is the position, actual constitutional position of us. He says directly same thing, jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. That is the real identification, that every living entity, jīva-we are jīvas*-we are eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is our position. But artificially we are trying to become Kṛṣṇa. A servant is trying to become master. They are misinterpreting the Vedic instruction, so 'ham, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Yes. So 'ham, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, these are Vedic instruction. It is all right. So so 'ham does not mean that you are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You are the same quality as Supreme, nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa. Just like a servant of a very big man, the king, he is not ordinary thing. Suppose a king. He is in the same palace. He is sitting by the side of the king, he is eating the same foodstuff, but still there is relationship, the servant and the master, although he is living in the same place, same eating, same everything. Sometimes he is honored most, he is honored better than the master. So so 'ham means that "I am the same spiritual self," but not as powerful as the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa dāsa. He is... A living entity must always know that "I am servant of God." And without becoming God, nobody can become servant of God. Without becoming fire, you cannot serve fire. That is the principle. But not that... Just like great fire and a small fire. The small spark fire is within the great fire. You cannot remain in the great fire, but the spark, even if it is very small, he can remain. So the fiery quality of the big fire and the small fire is the same, but there is distinction of dimension or energy.

Therefore here it is said, jīvera svarūpa haya [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. We must... This is our constitutional position. Artificially we should not think that "Now I have become God." That is false. That is the last snare of māyā, because māyā... In this material world everyone is trying to become the chief man, everyone. Everyone is trying to become minister. Everyone is trying to become a Birla. Everyone is trying to become a big doctor or a big financier, everyone. This is the struggle for existence here. Everyone. At last, when failed in everything, then he thinks of him, "I am God." This is the disease, material disease. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in the very beginning He impresses that "You are not the master; you are the servant. If you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, then you'll serve māyā. That is your position." That is the position of everyone here in this material world. They are serving the māyā.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*He is foolishly thinking that he is master. But he is always... Twenty*-four hours, he is being kicked by the laws of nature. But the foolish man cannot understand. Therefore they have been called mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. They... He does not come to the sense that "Where I am master? I am servant of the dictation of māyā, the rules and regulation of material nature. Where is my mastership?" This intelligence does not come. He is thinking still he is master, he can control the nature, he can control everything, he is God, he is this, he is that. That is the misconception. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in the very beginning of His instruction He is saying to Sanātana Gosvāmī that "You inquired from him what is your position," ke āmi, " 'What I am?' You are servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is the first impression.



*jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya*-dāsa

*kṛṣṇera taṭasthā-śakti bhedābheda*-prakāśa

[Cc. Madhya 20.108]



*This is the great philosophy. Acintya*-bhedābheda. Just like... I have already explained now. So 'ham, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is bhedābheda-prakāśa, I am the same quality of Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Brahman also, but I am not the Parabrahman. Parabrahman is Kṛṣṇa. When Arjuna... He is Brahman. When he realized Kṛṣṇa, he addressed Him, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. He never claimed equal with Kṛṣṇa. That is not knowledge. That is ignorance. So in this way, Sanātana Gosvāmī will understand his position, relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and Sanātana Gosvāmī, we shall understand. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu is describing in this Caitanya-caritāmṛta; therefore we shall discuss later on further.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





760706CC.WDC

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.101

-

Washington, D.C., July 6, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Out of Your causeless mercy, You have delivered me from the materialistic path. Now, by the same causeless mercy, please tell me what my duty is."



Prabhupāda:



kṛpā kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra

*āpana*-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra



*So service of Kṛṣṇa is not idleness. There are different methods of spiritual realization, especially jñāna and yoga. That is all right, but actual process of self-realization is service. If you speculate to know about God... You can do so, but after knowing God, if you do not know what God desires you to do, then such kind of knowledge is simply waste of time. That is, you may, of course... That is not real knowledge. Real knowledge is to-that will be explained*-to be induced to give some service to the Lord. In the beginning, this is called śānta-rasa, to understand the greatness of God, "God is great."



So we can discuss about the greatness of God, but next stage is that "God is so great, why not let me render some service unto the Supreme, the great?" That is one step forward. Simply to know "God is great and I am engaged in my own occupational duty," there is no symptom of love. Symptom of love means when one is eager to render some service to the beloved. That is love. Simply I love you and you love me, formality, but there is no service, that is not real love. Real love begins as it is stated in the śāstra, dadāti pratigṛhṇāti: to give something to the lover, to the beloved, and to take something. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate: to accept some eatables from your beloved, and offer him something for eating. Bhuṅkte bhojayate. Guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And you disclose your mind; there is no secrecy between the lover and the beloved. And the other party also discloses. In this way, love becomes manifest. And our business in this human life, as recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, premā pumartho mahān. The highest achievement of life is to be situated on the loving platform with God. That is the highest perfection.

We are, in the material world, we are also busy loving somebody. That is our whole business. Unless one has got family affection, love for wife, children, he cannot work. That is the impetus for economic development. It is admitted by big, big economists. A family man is responsible. Because he has got responsibility to maintain the wife, children, therefore he works hard. That is impetus. So love is there. Unless there is love, you cannot work. That is not possible. So this is material way of life. So from the morning till night,

śīta ātapa bāta variṣaṇa

e dina jāminī jāgi re

viphale sevinu, kṛpaṇa durajana

*capala sukha*-laba lāgi' re



*There is a song, the devotee is singing that śīta ātapa bāta variṣaṇa. Śīta means severe cold, winter season, snow falling. That is called śīta. And scorching heat. You have no experience of scorching heat. In India we have got 110, 120, and I think Middle East, there is 135. Here you have got less, 50 in winter. So some way or other there is always trouble. This material world means we must suffer trouble. Either scorching heat or pinching cold or blast or ādhidaivika, ādhyātmika. These things should be discussed. But still we got to work, why? Only for love. That is the only cause. I love my children, I love my wife, or I love my country, my society. Love is there. But this love is not giving me satisfaction. We are disappointed. As I, yesterday I cited the example of Mahatma Gandhi. For his country's love, he did so much. He wanted Hindu*-Muslim unity, and he wanted nonviolence. In this way he was organizing. But the world is so ungrateful that instead of unity of Hindu-Muslim, in India we experienced complete partition, Hindustan and Pakistan. So he was baffled. And so far nonviolence was concerned, he was killed by violence. So he died very disappointed. So everyone... This is giving the best example, typical example. Everyone. We are attached to the love of this material world, but we are all disappointed. From everyone's experience, you'll find. Everyone is disappointed. Both sides, the lover and the beloved, both sides. You have got very good experience in this country. They marry, again they are divorced, because disappointed. So this is going on. Therefore our love has to be reposed to Kṛṣṇa. That is the recommendation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, premā pumartho mahān. Pumartho, we want some achievement in this life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Achieve love of Godhead. That is the best." Premā pumartho mahān. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose, how we can develop our love for Kṛṣṇa. The love is already there, but it is misplaced, misplaced. Somebody is loving somebody, somebody is loving somebody, but it is misplaced. Real love, if it is executed for the service of the Lord, then our life is successful.



*So this Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was minister, he was not ordinary person. Very intelligent. So... Not that now he has retired, he has nothing to do. He does not ask, "Please give me instruction how I shall sit down idly and meditate and sleep, snoring." He does not say. He said, āpana-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra. Something tangible to be done. Not that this so-called meditation. Meditation will automatically be there. If you do, if you sacrifice your life for serving Kṛṣṇa, you'll always remember Kṛṣṇa. You'll always remember Kṛṣṇa. Just like you are taking so much trouble, going place to place to give one book to somebody. Why? Because you love Kṛṣṇa and you are thinking if this gentleman takes one book, never mind, small or big, he'll read at least one page about Kṛṣṇa. So you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is meditation. Not that simply sit down at a place. The real meditation is how to think of Kṛṣṇa. That is real meditation. I am thinking of some light or some sky, like that*-they are not meditation; they have manufactured now. Because they have no connection with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so they think these are the meditation, some light, some sky, some vacant. No. Some tangible thing. We should be always. That tangible thing is Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's activities, Kṛṣṇa's desire, how to fulfill it, that is wanted. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So Sanātana Gosvāmī is begging. You know Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was instructed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu for two months. And he was given responsibility to go to Vṛndāvana and develop Vṛndāvana. Before Sanātana Gosvāmī went there it was field. Because Kṛṣṇa's līlā was there, for five thousand years it became a vacant field only. Nobody knew where is Vṛndāvana. It is Sanātana Gosvāmī, he went there and he excavated. He constructed the first temple in Vṛndāvana, Madana*-Mohana temple. You have seen who have gone to Vṛndāvana. So these responsibilities he took after listening Him continually for two months. This is Sanātana śikṣā we are studying. This is required. This is required. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, the perfect meditation, perfect yogi is he who always thinks of Kṛṣṇa.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He is first*-class yogi. Who? "Who is always thinking of Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Always thinking "How I shall preach Kṛṣṇa's words, Kṛṣṇa's message?" The Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission and Kṛṣṇa's mission is the same. Only the difference is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He's ordering. Because He's God, He has the position to order you, everyone. Everyone is servant, and He is the supreme master; *therefore He is ordering, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So you give up all other occupational duties, simply engage yourself to serve Him. This is His order. But people misunderstood it because they are not trained up. Therefore Kṛṣṇa again came as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to distribute Kṛṣṇa.



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said the same thing, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He does not say, "I have manufactured something, you take it." No. He said you take up seriously what Kṛṣṇa has said, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. So every ācārya... Sanātana Gosvāmī is ācārya, direct disciple of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is taking shelter. He has already taken; *therefore he said, kṛpā kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra. He's already, he knows. Because he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu when he was minister and he got the inspiration that "I must resign from this post, my ministership. I must join Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement," then that determination, he is already liberated. That determination. Therefore he says, "I know it is not a very easy thing. I was minister, I was in a very good position." Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. He was minister. Naturally, his associate were very, very exalted persons. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati, maṇḍala-pati, big, big leaders, big, big merchants, big, big industrialists or something like that, very, very big men. They are called maṇḍala-pati. One who has control over many people, he is called maṇḍala-pati. So who will have control unless he is a very big man? So about these Gosvāmīs it is said, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. They gave up such position, exalted position, tucchavat, "Eh. Insignificant. What is this?" There is no meaning of this. He was not madman, but he gave up. He understood that these exalted posts... They are hankering after, they are trying to capture the big, big post, materialistic persons, laboring so hard, spending so much money. And he already possessed that position, and out of his own, or the inspiration by Kṛṣṇa, he resigned it. The master, the Nawab Shah, was unwilling to give him release. He became very, very sorry, that "If Sanātana Gosvāmī resigns, then my empire will be ruined. I was so confident that he is managing. Now he's going to resign, the whole responsibility will be mine." So he became very much disturbed. He arrested him, "No, you cannot resign, then I'll keep you arrested." So many things happened. But still he resigned and he came to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*Therefore he knows that to take away from this māyā's bondage, it is already fixed*-up, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. Otherwise it was not possible. Therefore he said, kṛpā kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra. "I know that it is due to Your mercy that I have been able to give up such position, māyā's position, as Your man. So now order me what is my duty." This is devotee. Not that "Now I am free from family life, I have no responsibility. Now I shall take prasādam and sleep." No. That is not. (laughs) You must be hundred times more active than in your family life. That is devotional. Of course, it is not pride, but take from example of my life. I was retired in Vṛndāvana, and at seventy years old I thought that it was to be done: "Nobody did it. Let me try." So I came to America. Today is the tenth anniversary. (devotees cheer) So at least from material calculation, if I had not taken that risk... When I was coming, my friends and others said, "This man is going to die." "Never mind," I thought, "death will come. Let me try." So this activity must be there. That is the begging of Sanātana Gosvāmī, that he said, āpana-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra: "What shall I do?" Doesn't matter what is your age, young man or old man. You must execute the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, paramparā, Caitanya Mahāprabhu and your guru. That is real life of devotional service, to take some responsibility for working and execute it to your best capacity.

In this connection, Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has explained in connection with the verse,

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

*ekeha kuru*-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

[Bg. 2.41]



So in this connection, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura said that "My only duty is to execute the order of my spiritual master. I do not mind whether I am going to hell or going back to Godhead. No. My only life and soul is to execute the order of my spiritual master." He has explained like that. So devotional service is great responsibility, to execute the order of the superior. Then our life is successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



751103CC.BOM

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.101-104

-

Bombay, November 3, 1975



*Prabhupāda: ...from Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. Caitanya means "the supreme living being." In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This is description of the Supreme Lord, that the Supreme Lord... (yelling outside) Huh?



Indian man: They removed a tree from there. Digging.



*Prabhupāda: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So, what is God, that is simplified, that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is the supreme eternal being amongst many other eternal beings. We are all eternal beings. We living entities, we are... Our position is eternity. As it is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "These living entities, they do not take birth or die at any time." Not "Nowadays they are taking more birth and population is increasing." This is all nonsense. Population is neither increasing nor decreasing. It may be... The living entities, they are transmigrating in this material world, not in the spiritual world. In the spiritual world they have got their eternal form. But in the material world, because the living entities have come to enjoy the material resources, therefore, according to the desire, the living entity is getting different forms of body, 8,400,000. But he is not dying. The body is changed. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13].



Our death means to transmigrate to another body. Just like from childhood we are transmigrating to another body, boyhood; *from boyhood we are transmigrating to another body, youth*-hood; *and from youth-hood we are transferred to another body, old body. Similarly, when this body will not be any more workable, then we shall transmigrate to another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Those who are dhīra-dhīra means sober, thoughtful*-they are not bewildered. But those who are not dhīra, adhīra... There are two classes of men: dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means one who is spiritually situated. He is called dhīra or brahma-bhūtaḥ, prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], dhīra. And one who is not spiritually situated, materially situated, means on the platform of bodily conception of life, then he is adhīra, he is restless, from this platform to that platform, this platform to that platform. This is going on.

So we change body; otherwise we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is the information we get, that after this destruction of this material body, the eternal soul is never destroyed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We get another body. The same example: the child gets the body of a boy, boy gets the... Therefore we are eternal. And what is God? He is also eternal. So nityo nityanānām. We are eternal, we are many, and God is also eternal, but He is one. He is singular number. Not that all of us, we are God. That is nonsense. We are part and parcel of God, but we are not as powerful as God. Anyone can understand it very easily. They are claiming to become God. So does he think that he is equal in power with God? No. That is foolishness. Mūḍha. God is one, but we are... We are also eternal, God is also eternal, but we are many. There is no...

*keśāgra-śata*-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīvaḥ bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ

sa anantyāya kalpate

[Cc. Madhya 19.140]



*The description of the living being is given in the śāstra that the magnitude... Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpi...: "One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair." And anantyāya kalpate: "There is limitless." As in practical experience also, we have this understanding that we require a leader. In the present moment there are so many parties, so many nations, so many societies, but there is a leader. That you cannot deny. (loud popping noises from outside, like firecrackers) Just like in our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society-it is a society*-I happen to be the leader. Similarly, there are other parties, political parties, and business parties. Everywhere there is a leader. You cannot avoid the leader. That is not possible. You may... I put this question to Professor Kotovsky, that "What is the difference between your philosophy and our philosophy? You are Leninist; you are following the leader Lenin, and we are following the leader Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difference in philosophy?" You have to follow one leader. That you cannot avoid. Without leader you cannot be guided, you cannot form a party. Everywhere you go... Just like in our country we followed the leadership of Mahatma Gandhi, so we became a nation. So everywhere you will find: there must be a leader. Without leader you cannot become a community or a nation. Similarly, who is the supreme leader? That is God, or Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is described in the Vedas, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānāmv. He is the leader.



*So what is the difference between the plural number nityas and singular number? Now, eka. Eka*-vacana, singular number leader, God... Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is the difference, that we are living entity and Kṛṣṇa, or God, is living entity, but Kṛṣṇa maintains all other living entities; *we cannot maintain even ourself. And we find difficulty especially nowadays to maintain even a family. That is the difference. And still, as a rascal, I claim that "I am God. I am God." Nobody can claim unnecessarily that one is God. First of all prove that you can maintain all the living entities. You cannot maintain yourself even. You beg from door to door, and how you become God? Very simple question. Because in the Vedas (it is) said that eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: "That one, singular number leader, He maintains all other living entities." That we have got practical experience. He is maintaining within the sand so many crabs. He is maintaining so many ants in the hole of your room. He is maintaining millions of elephants in the African jungle. So out of 8,400,000's of forms of life, mostly 8,300,000 species of life are being maintained by that one maintainer. And some of us so*-called civilized, we are trying to maintain ourself. Therefore nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is also consciousness. He is conscious. He is not acetana. Acetana means there is no consciousness. He is conscious, and we are also conscious.

*So He is the supreme conscious person amongst ourself and He is the supreme eternal amongst ourself. That is Caitanya. Caitanya means the Supreme Being, the supreme eternal being, the supreme conscious being. And He is caitanya*-caritra. Caritra means character, activities. So Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Amṛta, amṛta means also eternal or nectarine, which does not die. That Caitanya-caritāmṛta is there. It was written by Kavirāja Gosvāmī some four hundred years ago, and it was in Bengali, er, not Bengali-Sanskrit and Bengali. So now we have translated with elaborate explanation. This is the book. It is now Caitanya-caritāmṛta in English. So we have finished this in seventeen volumes like this. So we request you to take these volumes and read that what is the position of Caitanya, or the supreme living entity, and ourself; *what is the relationship and what is His characteristics, what is our characteristics, and how we can make our activities as good as the Supreme Caitanya's. That is called Caitanya*-caritāmṛta.

*So here we are talking about Caitanya's instruction to Sanātana Gosvāmī. This Sanātana Gosvāmī was one of the important ministers in the government of the then Pathan Nawab Hussein Shah. He is very important person. He was very great scholar in Persian language, in Arabian language, and Sanskrit. And because he joined the Muslim government, he accepted the service of a Muslim government, he was rejected by the brāhmaṇa community. He was born in brāhmaṇa community, Sārasvata*-brāhmaṇa. There are many Sārasvata-brāhmaṇas in Bombay. So he belonged to that community. And because the brāhmaṇa community exterminated him, then he became almost like Muslim. Their name was also changed, Dabira Khāsa and Sākara Mallika, two brothers. Later on, by the association of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, these half-converted Muslim brāhmaṇas were again claimed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to become the first-class brāhmaṇa, gosvāmī. They were Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī. So this Sanātana Gosvāmī retired. First of all Rūpa Gosvāmī retired from the government service, and then Sanātana Gosvāmī also retired. With great difficulty he got rid of the responsibility of government. The Nawab arrested him because he was declining to obey his order. The Nawab wanted him to stay in his post, but he declined. So when the Nawab said that "You are declining my order and you are resigning from your post. This is illegal. I shall arrest you," so Sanātana Gosvāmī, he replied that "You are the king, so according to our Vedic civilization a king is supposed to be the representative of God. So I cannot disobey you. But now it is my duty to retire and join Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. Therefore I must do it." So he arrested him. So this Sanātana Gosvāmī, with great difficulty he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Vārāṇasī. At that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu was staying at Vārāṇasī. So he met Him there. And after his becoming a Vaiṣṇava, dressed in Vaiṣṇava, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed him for two months continually just to enliven him in the matter of devotional service and write books so that in future the followers of Caitanya cult may take guide and be advanced in spiritual consciousness.

*So both the brothers, they wrote many books. This book is, of course, by different devotee, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. But Rūpa Gosvāmī's book, Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which we have translated into English, Nectar of Devotion... He said in that book that... That is the verdict of Vedic culture, to follow the authorities. Kṛṣṇa also said in the Bhagavad-gītā, tasmād śāstra-pramāṇaṁ te: "Whatever you do, you must follow the śāstra." Otherwise it is not bona fide. And if anyone neglects the order of śāstra:

*yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



So we cannot avoid śāstra. So our, this Caitanya cult is strictly under the injunction of the śāstra. So he has come to Caitanya Mahāprabhu and he is submitting himself.



kṛpā kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra

*āpana*-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra



*A disciple, when he accepts guru... This is the example, Sanātana Gosvāmī. Tasmād prapadyeta... Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. This is the injunction of the śāstra. Who requires a guru? It is not a fashion, that one has to accept anyone as guru. No. A person requires a guru when he is inquisitive, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ, when he is very much eager to understand the spiritual śreya uttamam. Uttamam. Ut means transcendental, and tama means darkness. This world is called darkness, ignorance. So one who wants to transcend this position of ignorance and wants to know the transcendental subject, means spiritual subject, brahma*-jijñāsā, he requires a guru, not any person, other person. If you are interested in things which is beyond this material world... That is necessary inquiry. So here is the enquiry, that Sanātana Gosvāmī says that "You have delivered me from the clutches of material attachment. I was minister, getting good salary, very nice post. So many aristocrats was offering me respect. So I think it was not necessary. My real necessary is to advance in spiritual consciousness. So kindly You have given me relief from this material concept of life. Now, according to Your desire, I have left everything. Now let me know what is my duty."



*This is required. If anyone becomes disciple of a bona fide guru, then his duty is to ask from the guru what he can do to help guru. That is required. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is giving us the example. Āpana*-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra. Kartavya means duty. "Now what is my duty? I have left my so-called duty, ministership. Now I am interested in my real duty, so kindly speak to me what is my duty." Another question was... First question was that "What is my duty?" Then next question is, ke āmi: "Actually what I am?" Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya: "I do not want sufferings, but sufferings are forced upon me, three kinds of suffering: adhyātmika, adhibhautika and adhidaivika." This is knowledge. So adhyātmika means sufferings pertaining to the body and mind, and adhibhautika means sufferings offered by other living entities. Adhibhautika. And adhidaivika, sufferings offered by natural disturbances. There are three kinds of sufferings. Just like the firework is going on, the heavy sound. It is intolerable by somebody. But still, he has to tolerate, that "This firework is going on by other persons." This is called adhibhautika. Similarly, there are so many sufferings which we do not want. Still, they are forced upon us. Therefore he said, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya: "These three kinds of miseries are always giving me trouble, and at the same time, I do not know what I am." Everyone is thinking, "I am this, I am that," but he is suffering. These are very plain questions. So these questions should be put before the spiritual master, and he should get proper answer and act accordingly. Then spiritual life will be successful. Unless we are interested in such questions, there is no need of wasting time to accept any guru or spiritual master.

*So again he says, sādhya*-sādhana-tattva puchite nā jāni: "Actually I do not know. It is my duty to put questions upon you." That is also indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Tad viddhi. If you want to understand things which is beyond this material world... Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain within this darkness of material existence. Try to transcend, to go to the spiritual world, jyoti, where it is light." Here it is always darkness, and there there is always light. So everyone should be interested, especially in this human form of life, not to remain here like animals, cats and dogs, but to become brahma*-bhūtaḥ. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. One must know. This is the duty of human life. So he says, sādhya-sādhana-tattva puchite nā jāni: "Now I am little interested how to become spiritually advanced, but I do not know how I shall put the question before You and what is the ultimate goal of life. These things I do not know. But I have got an inquiry." That is natural. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the natural inquisitiveness of any conditioned life, especially in the human form of life. As it is inquired by Sanātana Gosvāmī, everyone should be elevated to that position to inquire, "What I am?" Kṛpā kari' saba tattva kaha ta' āpani: "So I do not know how to place my question." This is submission. "So You can speak to me what is actually the goal of life, why I have forgotten my identification and how I shall be properly situated." This is Vedic civilization. Whole Vedic civilization means to understand oneself, to understand God and the relationship. And according to that relationship, one has to work. Then his life is successful. This is Vedic culture. Vedic culture does not mean to become a big dog. No. That is not Vedic culture. In the śāstra it is said that śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. In this material world, without any spiritual knowledge, if one is adored, it is just like the small animals in the jungle is praising the big animal, the lion. The lion is an animal and the small rabbit or other animals, they are also animals. So the rabbits are very much afraid of lion. That is a fact. And they worship the... This morning we were discussing one story, how a rabbit entangled one lion and saved his life. So here in this material world, similarly, the small animal may be afraid of the big animal, but the big animal or small animal, they are animals. They are animals. Therefore Bhāgavata says the small animal may eulogize the big animal. That does not mean the big animal is of any importance. He is animal, that's all. Similarly, our position is that we do not go... We may not go to the big animal, but we may go to like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then we will be benefited. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, if we approach Caitanya Mahāprabhu... That is caitanya, living, supreme living being.



*Therefore our request is that for your enlightenment of life you do not approach a big animal. You approach Kṛṣṇa, the supreme being. Then you will be benefited. There is no use. And who is animal? Even if he is two*-legged, but still, if he remains an animal... Who? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. One who is thinking of this body as identified with the self, he is animal. Anyone, it doesn't matter. We do not speak of any particular man, but any person who does not know his real identification... As Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired, ke āmi. He was the prime minister, but still, he did not know what he is. That will be explained. Grāmya-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita satya kare māni āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni. "Some foolish person, they say that I am very learned scholar." Because he was brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa is always supposed to be very learned; *therefore he is called paṇḍita, paṇḍitajī. So Sanātana Gosvāmī said, grāmye-vyavahāre: "In ordinary dealings my neighborhood men, they say 'Paṇḍitajī.' But I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know what I am." Āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: "I am such a paṇḍita. Therefore I have come to You." This is called submission. If one is sincere... If he does not know what he is, what is his function, how he will make his life successful, then he is not paṇḍita. So that is going on now, at the present moment, throughout the whole world, the bodily concept of life-"I am American," "I am Indian," "I am African," "I am this," "I am that," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I am black," "I am white"*-this bodily concept of life. So śāstra says that "If anyone is in the bodily conception of life," sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13], "he is no better than these animals."

*So therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī is the best example to follow, how one should approach a guru, how one should take lesson from guru, how he should understand to make his life successful. These questions or answers are there in the Sanātana-śikṣā of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. So we are trying to discuss and...

*prabhu kahe*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā tomāte pūrṇa haya

*saba tattva jāna, tomāra nāhi tāpa*-traya



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu answered that Sanātana Gosvāmī... But he is actually very learned. If he is not learned, then how he can give up his post as the minister, finance minister? He is actually learned because he was inquisitive that "I must know the goal of my life, I must make my life successful, and therefore I must go to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his approach, that "You have come to Me for better enlightenment. That means you are not ordinary person. You are not ordinary conditioned soul. Who can sacrifice such big post and the honor and come to a sannyāsī and submit to Me?" Therefore He says, prabhu kahe*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā pūrṇa haya: "God's mercy is fully there in You." Saba tattva jāna: "You have understood all the truths of life." Saba tattva jāna tomāra nāhi tāpa-traya. And he was inquiring that "Why I am forced to accept all kinds of miserable condition of life?" But, "For You there is no such thing."



*Tāpa*-traya. This is very important thing. One who is advanced in spiritual consciousness, for him there is no material trouble. There is no material trouble. Ahaituky apratihatā. So long we are in the bodily concept of life, there are so many troubles and miserable condition of life. But as soon as you become spiritually advanced and you know your identity, that you are not this body but you are spirit soul, then... This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā,

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*This is wanted. Every one of us should become brahma*-bhūtaḥ, not to remain jīva-bhūtaḥ. That is ignorance. One must come to the platform of brahma-bhūtaḥ. Then prasannātmā. He has no three kinds of material conditional life. He has no struggle for existence. Prasannātmā. He is always jolly because he knows that "I am not this body. I am soul," at least theoretically, prasannātmā. That is wanted.



Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "As you have decided to relinquish, to resign your so exalted post, and you have come to Me for spiritual enlightenment, that means you are already liberated from the three material conditions of life."

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa (end)



760707CC.BAL

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.102

-

Baltimore, July 7, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



*'ke āmi', 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya'

ihā nāhi jāni-'kemane hita haya'



[break]



Prabhupāda: ...like that, but there is no mistake. But the (laughs) technical. So it is finished? Kene? Finished? (laughter) There was one governor, a Mr. Carmichael. So in India, in British period, every officer had to learn the local language. We were students in the Scottish Church College. Our all professors were Europeans, but during their service they had to learn Bengali. So one governor, Mr. Carmichael, he was called for presiding over a meeting. So he wanted to speak in Bengali. So he said, dekhite dekhite kimbhasa kartiya gele. So the pronunciation is galo, but he said gele. So people were smiling. (laughter) The audience, they were smiling. So there are some technical. Just like we pronounce something and not to the correct current pronunciation. So, but when we are reading Bengali, let us do it, as far as possible, as the Bengalis do. That's all. Otherwise there is no mistake. Finish? Go on.



*Pradyumna: (reads word*-for-word) "Translation: Who am I? Why do the threefold miseries always give me trouble? If I do not know this, how can I be benefited?"



Prabhupāda:



*'ke āmi', 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya'

ihā nāhi jāni-'kemane hita haya'



*Ke āmi: "Who am I?" Now, suppose I am sitting here, you are all sitting here. Some fly comes and disturbs. We have got daily experience. And he'll disturb. I want to get him out, and he comes again, stops on his mouth and creates some disturbance. A fly, a small fly, not a very big man. So, but after all, this is disturbance. I don't like it, but the fly will come and disturb me. So there is no question that "Why this fly is coming and giving me disturbance? I do not want it." This is sane man's inquiry. But there is no inquiry. I do not want... There are three kinds, jāre tāpa*-traya, three kinds of miserable condition. One is called ādhyātmika, another is called ādhidaivika, another is called ādhibhautika. Ādhyātmika means pertaining to the body and mind. All of a sudden my mind is not in order. Suppose a friend has come to talk with me, so I refuse to talk, I am not in mood. We have got this experience. "I cannot talk with you, mind is not in order." This is happening daily, every moment. This is called ādhyātmika. I did not want it, but it has come. All of a sudden I am feeling some headache. I did not want it, but it came. This is our practical experience.



So this kind of troubles I don't want. There are always, either ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika, that is you are suffering. In this material world means the suffering is going on. We are thinking we are very safe, running in the car. At any moment there may be accident. At any moment. I do not want it, my life may go. So this is sane man's life, that "So many things, I do not want them, but they are enforced upon me, and I do not know how to get out of it." The fly is coming, disturbing. I can simply make some spray to kill it, as you do generally, but that killing is another risk. But those who do not know, they kill it. Because you have no right to kill. Suppose a man is disturbing you. So if you kill, you become a murderer and you'll be taken into the court and you'll be punished, and if you say, "This man was disturbing me; therefore I have killed him," that is no excuse. You have killed this man; you must suffer. This is ordinarily we find in our general living condition. So in the state of the Supreme Lord, you cannot kill even a mosquito or even a fly. You'll be punished. Because God says that "Everyone is My child." Just the same example. Suppose I have got so many brothers. One brother is a fool, so he creates me some disturbances. I kill him. So will the father be happy? If you say, "Father, your this child was disturbing me. I have killed him," the father will be sorry, "Why you have killed him?" This is natural. Because one child of the father is a fool, the other intelligent child cannot kill him. Then the father will be angry or sorry.

*So we do not know. We are doing irresponsibly. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī has gone to his spiritual master, he's asking this... This is also common, also very grave questions, that "In this material world, I do not want so many things, but they are enforced upon me. Why?" This is human life, to inquire why. Not to... The modern theory is struggle for existence. There are troubles, and you try to save yourself, and survival of the fittest. But nobody is fit, nobody survives. Nobody wants death, but we are talking of survival. Who can escape death? There is no possibility. So there are so many slogans, but actually there is no remedy. There is remedy, but we do not know. That is the defect of modern civilization. There is remedy. Otherwise why we are talking this śāstra? Why Sanātana Gosvāmī is putting this question? Just to get the solution from the spiritual master. Otherwise there was no need of putting these questions, that "What is my position? Why these threefold miseries always give me trouble? Why I die? Why I become old? Why I become diseased? Why I have to take birth?" They are simply struggle for existence, that here is a child, and the child*-bearing is very troublesome, and if I give birth to a child... The mother is killing. This is going on. But that means she is implicating herself again in another way of life. This is going on.

So this question, at the present moment, nobody asks this question. But this is very intelligent question. We are completely under the laws of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*We are not independent. Just like in the state, in your country, although you have observed the independence ceremony, but you are not independent. If you go... "Keep to the right," you go to the left, immediately your independence finished. You'll be punished. So this so*-called independence is conditional. It is not absolute independence. If you want absolute independence then you have to go back home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are hankering after independence, but so long we remain in this material world, there is no question of independence. So intelligent man, when he inquires about, when he thinks over, that "I want independence from so many things, but I am not independent. I am forced to accept, then where is my independence?" When this question arises, then he is human being. Otherwise he's as good as the cats and dogs. Because the cats and dogs, they cannot inquire. Just like an animal is being sent to the slaughterhouse, he cannot say "Why I am... What I have done? Why you are sending me to the slaughterhouse?" He cannot protest. Even he protests, nobody hears him. Nobody hears. He protests by crying, by screaming, but we have made our own theories: "This crying is nothing. It has no soul. We can kill."



So in this way the whole world is going on under a gross atmosphere of ignorance. There are so many things to be discussed. Just like we do not know what is the problems of life, how life comes into existence. We see a child is born, but we do not know wherefrom the life came. The lump of matter of the child is not the child. If the child takes birth dead, without life, it has no value; it is a lump of matter. You throw it immediately. But if it has a life, then we take care of it, we raise it, give him food, give him breast milk, and so much care. The life is so important. But nobody cares to know what is this life, where it begins, wherefrom it comes, what is the destiny. No question. Similarly, if we... We are seeing every night so many planets. We are making tiny attempt to go to moon planet or some other planet, but there are, we see there are so many millions and trillions of planet. What about their situation? We have made our calculation from here that they are simply decoration; there is no life. No, there is life. There is life, but we do not know it. So yesterday our scientist, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, was speaking that in the history of human society, actually these two things are ignorance: what is the beginning of life and what are these planetary systems.

*So we are after knowledge, but so many things are unknown to us. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī is teaching us by his practical behavior to approach the spiritual master, and putting his case that "I am suffering in this way." He was minister, there was no question of suffering. He was very well situated. That he has already explained, that grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya kari māni. "There are so many questions I cannot answer. There is no solution. Still, people say that I am very learned man*-I accept it foolishly." Nobody is learned man unless he goes to the guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Therefore Vedic injunction is that if you want to be learned, then go to guru, bona fide guru, not the so-called guru.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Guru means one who has seen the Absolute Truth. That is guru. Tattva-darśinaḥ, tattva means the Absolute Truth, and darśinaḥ, one who has seen. So this movement, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is for this purpose, to see the Absolute Truth, to understand the Absolute Truth, to know the problems of life and how to make a solution. These things are our subject matter. Our subject matter is not material things, that somehow or other you get a car and a good apartment and a good wife, then all your problems solved. No. That is not solution of problems. The real problem is how to stop your death. That is the real problem. But because it is very difficult subject matter, nobody touches it. "Oh, death*-we shall peacefully die." But nobody peacefully dies. If I take a dagger and I say, "Now die peacefully," (laughter) the whole peaceful condition finished immediately. He will cry. So these are nonsense, if somebody says, "I will die peacefully." Nobody dies peacefully, that is not possible. Therefore death is a problem. Birth is also a problem. Nobody is peaceful while within the womb of the mother. It is packed-up, airtight condition, and nowadays there is risk of being killed also. So there is no question of peacefulness, birth and death. And then old age. Just like I am old man, so many troubles I have got. So old age. And disease, everyone has got experience, even headache is sufficient to give you trouble. The real problem is this: birth, death, old age and disease. That is the statement given by Kṛṣṇa, that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. If you are intelligent, you should take up these four problems of life as very dangerous.



So they have no knowledge; *therefore they avoid these questions. But we take up these questions very seriously. That is the difference between other movement and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Our movement is how to solve these problems. The śāstra says that if you cannot solve these problems for your children... That is real contraceptive method. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta*-mṛtyum. If you cannot protect your child from the imminent death and repetition of birth, then don't become a father, don't become a mother. This is śāstra's injunction. If you are actually father and mother, you should give him such educational knowledge that this is the last birth. Next he'll not have any such body subjected to birth and death. That is possible. That the Bhagavad-gītā says: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then the whole problem solved. What is the problem solved? Tyaktvā deham, this body we have to give up. Because it is material body, you must have to give up. But those who are Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the..., after giving up this body, no more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Punar janma means next birth. If you accept a material body, then there is question of next birth. But if you remain in your spiritual body, there is no question of next birth. That is spiritual salvation or liberation. If you remain in your spiritual body, then you go back to home, back to Godhead. Kṛṣṇa is complete spiritual body. The kingdom of God is also spiritual, and you go there, and you live there eternally. Tyaktvā deham. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Where going you do not come back again to this material world. That is the supreme abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*So this benediction is offered by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who has very kindly come here, Nitāi*-Gaura. So you take advantage of His mercy. You are very fortunate that Nitāi-Gaura is here. If you simply chant Nitāi-Gaura and dance, then you'll become happy. There is no difficulty. There is no difficulty. You are chanting "Jaya Śacīnandana." This simple chanting, "Jaya Śacīnandana," "Hare Kṛṣṇa," this chanting and dancing, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanair prayaiḥ yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is not I am manufacturing. It is the injunction of the śāstra. In this age, simply by chanting and dancing, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanair prayaiḥ, you get complete spiritual service. So I am very glad you are taking care of Nitāi-Gaura so nicely, They are so nicely dressed. So continue these activities, and even if you cannot do anything, simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance and "Jaya Śacīnandana." That will make your life perfect.

Thank you very much. (end)



760708CC.WDC

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.103

-

Washington, D.C., July 8, 1976



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Actually I do not know how to inquire about the goal of life and the process for obtaining it. Being merciful upon me, please explain all these truths."



Prabhupāda:



*'sādhya'-'sādhana'*-tattva puchite nā jāni

kṛpā kari' saba tattva kaha ta' āpani



*The injunction in the Bhagavad*-gītā is that tad viddhi, try to understand. Not try, but must try. The human life is meant for understanding tattva, the Absolute Truth. That is the special advantage of the human life. If a human being does not inquire or he's not trained up to inquire about it, it is a great disadvantage and it is enviousness. In the human life, the chance is there to make a solution of the whole problem, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest. This is going on life after life. Now here is a chance, human life, he can understand what is the goal of life and how to achieve it. He can be trained up. So if that opportunity is refused to the human society by the guardians, by the government, it is a great misservice, a great disadvantage. To keep them in darkness of animal propensities... Because we are changing our body, here is a chance, after many evolutionary process, many thousand and millions of years. We are going to the park. How many plants and creepers are there, how many animals, how many aquatics? We have to come through all these processes, evolutionary process. So here is a chance. Therefore for the human being it is advised that try to understand the goal of your life. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyam [MU 1.2.12]. That is Vedic instruction. Must try. So from the very beginning, if children are not trained up to inquire about the goal of life, they are kept in darkness, simply eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, that is not civilization. They must be trained up. The opportunity must be given so that he can inquire more and more about the goal of life.



The goal of life is, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu will explain, that we are intimately related with God. Someway or other, we are fallen down in this material world, and we are by mistake accepting this body as self, and we are being trained up also only to see the bodily interests just like cats and dogs. The animals also, they are interested with the body only. They have no other interest. But if a human being is kept in the same darkness, simply bodily interest, that is a great disadvantage. So Sanātana Gosvāmī, he understands that, because he has already begun,

*'ke āmi', 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya'

ihā nāhi jāni-'kemane hita hara'



There are so many things with which we have to struggle. This is called struggle for existence. Even the modern scientists, they call... It is not a very peaceful situation. The same question was raised by Sanātana Gosvāmī that Why there should be struggle for existence? Why not easy life, peaceful life? Why some outer elements, they are giving us opposition? I want to be happy, but there is opposition. That is struggle for existence. This question should be there: Why? Even with a fly we have to fight. I am sitting, without doing any harm to the fly, but it attacks, bothering me. There are so many. Even if you sit down without any offense... Just like you are passing on the street, there is no offense, but from one house all the dogs begin to bark: "Why you are coming here? Why you are coming here?" There was no cause of his barking, but because it is dog, his business is "Why you are coming, why you are coming?" Similarly, we have no freedom to go from one place to another at present moment. There is immigration department: "Why you are coming? Why you are coming?" In many places we have been refused to enter. We have been refused from the airplane. "No, you cannot enter, go back." So I had to go back. So, so many disadvantages. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58]. In this material world, you cannot live very peacefully. Not very; not peacefully at all. There are so many impediments. The śāstra says, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām: every step there is danger. Not only from these lower animals, but from the human society, by nature, on which we have no control. So in this way, our life is not very happy in this material world, and we should be advanced in inquiring about it, that why there are so many impediments. That is human life.



So how to inquire? How to become happy? What is the goal of life? Sanātana Gosvāmī... Not only Sanātana Gosvāmī, he's representing us. We do not know, we do not know. So by the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu or by the mercy of the servants of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, one can be enlightened as to the..., what is the goal of life, why there is struggle for existence, why there is death. I do not want to die; *why there is birth? I do not wish to enter into the mother's womb and remain packed*-up condition for so many days; I do not want to become old man; but these things are enforced upon me. Therefore our business is..., real business is how to solve these questions, not to arrange for economic development. Economic development, whatever we are destined, we shall get it. Either happiness or distress, we shall get it. Just like we don't try for distress, but it comes. It is enforced upon us. Similarly, the little happiness which you are destined to obtain, that will also come. That is śāstra's advice. Don't waste your time to get artificially some happiness. Whatever you are destined to get happiness, it will come automatically. How it will come? Yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ. The same way. Just like you don't try for distress, but it comes upon you. Similarly, even if you don't try for happiness, whatever you are destined, you will get.

*So don't waste your time bothering about this so*-called happiness and distress. Better engage your valuable time to understand what is the goal of life, why there are so many problems, why you have to struggle for existence. This is your business... This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that we are inducing people to understand the problem. It is not a sectarian movement or so-called religious movement. It is not a religion. It is educational cultural movement. Every man has to understand the goal of life. Every man has to understand why there is struggle for existence, if there is any remedy, if there is any process where we can live very peacefully without any disturbances, without any... These are the things to be learned in human life, and one should approach... Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was minister, very educated, well placed, but he has approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So we should approach the Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu or His representative, and surrender. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. The way is not challenging, "Can you show me God?" These are challenges. Not this way. God is everywhere, but first of all make your eyes to see God, then you challenge, "Can you show me God?" This attitude will not help us. Submissive. Tad viddhi praṇipātena. This is the injunction of the śāstra. If you want to understand the science, transcendental science, tad viddhi try to understand-but praṇipātena, very humbly. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī is submitting very humbly.

So tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena [Bg. 4.34]. First of all praṇipāt, then paripraśnena, questioning. Don't waste your time by questioning some spiritual master or somebody unless you have praṇipāt. You must be ready to accept the answer which he gives; then make inquiry. If you think that "I have to test his answer, because I am more learned or more advanced than him," then don't go there, don't propose anything or inquire anything. You first of all settle up, that whatever, "I am going to inquire something from somebody," so whatever answer he'll give, you'll accept. Then there is question of inquiry. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is completely surrendering. He said that "I am blank. I do not know actually how to inquire You. So kindly You speak everything, what is the subject matter of inquiry and what is the answer of such inquiry. I am completely blank slate. I am simply submitting to You." Sādhya, the goal of life, and sādhana, the process by which one can approach.

*So "I do not know anything about it, simply I'm depending on Your mercy." That is kṛpā kari. That is surrender. In this way, we can make advancement in our spiritual education, and we must carry out the order of the spiritual master. Just like you are singing daily, guru*-mukha-padma-vākya cittete kariyā aikya āra nā kariha mane āśā. Āra nā kariha mane āśā **-do not think otherwise. Simply whatever... First of all, select who will be your spiritual master. You must know the preliminary law. Just like if you want to purchase gold, at least you must know where gold is available. If you want to purchase diamond... So you must know, if you are so foolish that you go to a butcher shop and ask him to supply diamond or gold, then you'll be cheated. You must know at least where to go and purchase gold or diamond. These are valuable things. So that requires little intelligence and sincerity. If we are sincere that "I want to purchase gold or diamond..." This is crude example, but the spiritual inquiry..., if one is actually serious about understanding the goal of life, spiritual knowledge, then Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. He understands how this person is sincerely seeking. Then He'll give direction that "You do this." He is giving direction in every respect. We want to do so many things, so Kṛṣṇa is giving us facility.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

[Bg. 18.61]



*He is giving all facilities. But when one becomes actually very much eager to understand Kṛṣṇa, God, He is very glad to give instruction, that "You go to such and such person and you submissively inquire, and you'll be..." Guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. By the mercy of guru, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one can make advancement in spiritual understanding. So one must be sincere. Then every direction is there.



Thank you very much. (end)



760710CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.104

-

New York, July 10, 1976



Prabhupāda: There is no signboard? Why? All right, go on.



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, 'Lord Kṛṣṇa has bestowed His full mercy upon you so that all these things are known to you. For you, the threefold miseries certainly do not exist.' "



Prabhupāda:



*prabhu kahe-"kṛṣṇa*-kṛpā tomāte pūrṇa haya

*saba tattva jāna, tomāra nāhi tāpa*-traya"



*So Sanātana Gosvāmī's first question was, ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya āpani kaha prabhu kisera hita haya. Tāpa-traya, we have explained several times that there are three kinds of miserable conditions: pertaining to the body; pertaining to the mind; *on account of harassment by other living entities and by natural disturbances. There are three kinds of miserable conditions within this material world. But when one takes shelter of spiritual master and seriously engages himself in devotional service, he has no more any miserable condition. The miserable condition means... It is a question of understanding. The beginning of spiritual life is to understand that "I am not this body." That is the beginning. So if I am properly trained up to understand that "I am not this body," then where is my tāpa*-traya, miserable condition? Because miserable condition is due to this body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. We feel sometimes cold, sometimes warm. What is the reason? The reason is on account of the body. Mātrā-sparśās. The water is the same, but according to the seasonal changes the water is sometimes very pleasing and sometimes it is not pleasing. So according to the seasonal changes...The water does not change its chemical compound, but these seasonal changes, my body becomes susceptible to the condition. And therefore the same water sometimes gives me pleasure and sometimes gives me distress.



*So when one understands that "I am not this body," he is not very much affected. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, deha*-smṛti nāhi yāra, saṁsāra-bandhana kāhāṅ tāra. Deha-smṛti: it is simply to understand. Just like I have given several times this example: you are in a very nice car, Cadillac, and you are very proud of it, and if by chance the car is by accident broken then your heart breaks. Why? You are not the car. But because your thoughts are absorbed in the car, that "This is my car," therefore your heart becomes broken. Actually you have nothing to do with the car. Even the car is broken into pieces, you are not affected. But because I have got affection for the car, therefore I am... So this affection can be withdrawn by cultivation of knowledge. That I am not this car, it is a fact, but on account of my ignorance and attachment I am thinking, "Now I am finished because my car is broken." It is simple truth. Similarly those who are too much absorbed in the thought that "I am this body," their sufferings are more on account of this misconception that "I am this body."

*Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā the first lesson is, Kṛṣṇa began the lessons of Bhagavad-gītā that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are lamenting on a subject matter which has nothing to do with you." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase. Here in this material world we are advanced in so-called civilization, but we are very much attached to this body. This is misconception. This is called illusion. This is, the dog is also thinking like that: "I am this body." So where is the difference? If the dog thinks, "I am this body," "I am Indian..." I think, "I am Indian"; *Americans thinks he is... So where is the difference between the dog and me? There is no difference. Simply by dressing nicely... If you dress a dog very nicely, does it mean that he becomes a human being? A dressed dog, that's all. Dog dancing. So śāstra says that if one is still in the bodily concepts of life, then he's no better than animal. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Tri-dhātuke. This body is made of, according to Āyurvedic knowledge, it is body development of three dhātus: kapha, pitta, vāyu. The vāyu is there, air. It is very scientific. Whatever we are eating, it is becoming secretion. Then by vāyu... When there is less ventilation, in old age, the vāyu becomes slow, and therefore so many diseases overcome. This massaging means just to help the air within the body to ventilate. So it is actually made of vāyu-kapha, pitta, vāyu. The vāyu is making the secretion dried up and so on, so on.

So we are not this kapha pitta vāyu. We are not this skin, bone, blood or whatever it may be. You analyze it. I am not this. But life is not there. They are claiming that life is chemical composition, but try each and every part of this body and chemical composition. First of all take this breathing. What is this breathing? Breathing is air. So air, that is also chemical composition: hydrogen, oxygen, ether. (?) So that is chemical composition, or air. So there is no question of chemical combining. Air you can sufficiently have. You are making airtight so many things. So just put some air within the body and by artificial way let it be blowing like the bellows. The bellow also breathes like that. And will life come? No. It is not possible. Similarly, take every one item, take the breathing, take the muscles, take the blood, take the urine, take the stool, take the bone, and analyze it very carefully, part to part, and combine them all together. You have got scientist: bring life. No. That is not possible. That is not possible.

So therefore it is misconception that life is chemical composition. No. Chemical composition is this body, not the soul. But they do not know; *they are speculating in darkness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes to give you knowledge that "You rascal, you are thinking of this body, yourself. No, it is not that." Asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... [Bg. 2.13]. You are living within this body. Under certain conditions according to your karma, you have been allowed to live in this body, and if your karma improves, then you'll be allowed to live in a better body, in the demigod. Or if your karma is abominable, then you'll be degraded to the lower body. Just like you pay... According to your payment you'll get a certain type of apartment. Everyone cannot live in a first*-class apartment, because he cannot pay. Similarly, this body is also like apartment. According to your capacity of paying the rent or the price you get a certain type of... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg. 13.22]. This is going on. We are not this apartment, we are the occupier of the apartment. That is real knowledge. There are two persons: one is the occupier and one is the proprietor. We have got practical knowledge.

So Kṛṣṇa says clearly that,

*kṣetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi

*sarva*-kṣetreṣu bhārata

*kṣetra*-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ

idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetram ity abhidhīyate

[Bg. 13.3]



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find this knowledge, kṣetra-kṣetrajñaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says that "This body is called kṣetra." Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa "What is kṣetra, what is kṣetrajñaḥ, what is jñāna, and what is subject matter of jñāna?" So Kṛṣṇa answered that kṣetra means this body, and kṣetrajñaḥ means one who knows that "This is my body." He is kṣetrajñaḥ. You study your own body. You study your finger, you'll never say "I finger." "My finger." Nobody says. Even a small child, you ask him, "What is this?" He'll say, "My finger." He'll never say, "I finger." I am not finger. I'm not this. So one who knows that this body is mine, that is kṣetra, ah, kṣetrajñaḥ. And the body is kṣetra. Ksetra means the field of activities. We have got this body, field of activities. We are very much proud of civilized... But subject matter is the same. The dog is thinking, "I am this body." He is jumping with four legs, and you are jumping with four wheels, that's all. Because the knowledge is the same, that "I am this body." There is no improvement. So we are thinking that "Dog is running on the street without any car, and we have got a nice car we are running, so therefore we are civilized." No. This is not civilization. This is the same civilization as the dog and cat has got. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].



*Real civilization is athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is asking this question, ke āmi kene āmāya, jāre tāpa*-traya. This is real question: "What I am?" So Sanātana Gosvāmī's question is being answered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "Because you have this inquiry, this is the beginning of human life." So if one is little inquisitive to know what I am, then his real life begins. And if he is kept in the darkness and he remains in the darkness, that "I am this body," there is no value of so-called civilization, education, nothing. It is a very important question, ke āmi kene āmāya. One must be inquisitive. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. He must be conscious that "I do not want all these things, miserable condition of life, and they are enforced upon me. I cannot check them; they are coming. No, there must be somebody superior who's law is being forced." That is the factor. That is religion. Religion means to find out the supreme controller who is forcing everything. That is religion. That is stated in the dictionary. Religion is not some sentiment, some ritualistic ceremony. No. This inquiry about the supreme controller, that's a fact. We see in every step there is a supreme controller, and we are foolishly declaring that we are independent. This is called foolishness. So real religion means to come out from this foolish conception of life, that "There is no controller. We are everything. Whatever we like, you can do. There is no life after death, and there is no life in other planets..." These are all ignorance. Simply fool's paradise. It has no meaning.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give people right knowledge. Don't think that it is a sentimental so*-called religious movement. But you come to the right conclusion to the spiritual platform by this easiest method introduced by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Chant the holy name of the Lord and your... Because misunderstanding means because we have so many dirty things accumulated on the heart for many, many lives. Beginning from aquatics, then plant life, the trees' life, the insect life, in this way, now we have come a life of enlightenment. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now we should inquire. That is, Sanātana Gosvāmī is teaching us that go to the proper spiritual master. He has come. He is not ordinary man, he is minister, so he cannot go to a cheater, to a bluffer. He has selected the right person, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

*So we have to go to a person who is as good as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. As good... How one can become Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu? He is God. How another man can become as good as Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Then he is also God? No. He doesn't require to be God, and neither he can ever become God. That is false. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's equal person means one who speaks the exactly what Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaks. That makes him equal. He doesn't manufacture. If you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa says or Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, then you become equal to me. Equal to me? That is guru. Guru means who is equal. Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Why guru is accepted as God Himself? Does it mean Māyāvāda philosophy? No. This is not Māyāvāda. Because he is most confidential servant of God*-kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya-therefore he's as good as God. He is very, very dear to God. Why? Because he does not speak anything nonsense what his master does not speak, that's all. That is the qualification. Still, "No, I see that his son addresses him 'father.' He is the father, considering him as ordinary man. And still he's as good as God?" Yes. Still he's as good as God. Why? Because he does not speak anything nonsense except what he has heard from God. That is the qualification. In this way, if we study Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and... Of course, Caitanya-caritāmṛta is the higher study. Still we have got all these books, very exalted, authorized books, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Nectar of Devotion. So we request, especially... Of course, I am pleased that these countrymen of this American country, they are taking our books, reading. So gradually they will understand. But take real knowledge. Don't be misled by bluffers who have no authority to speak. And to cheat you... Because you are wanting, hankering after something, so so many bluffers, cheaters, they come and cheat you. Don't be cheated. Here is authorized literature.

Read them, be enlightened, and make your life successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760711CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.105

-

New York, July 11, 1976



Prabhupāda:



*kṛṣṇa-śakti dhara tumi, jāna tattva*-bhāva

*jāni' dārḍhya lāgi' puche*-sādhura svabhāva

[Cc. Madhya 20.105]



*So Sanātana Gosvāmī is guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is authorizing him to become guru. This is paramparā system. Nobody can become guru all of a sudden. Self*-made guru, that is not guru. Here Caitanya, er, Sanātana Gosvāmī is presented as the disciple, ideal disciple. He is asking, ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya, process how to approach guru, how to ask him question. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena [Bg. 4.34]. Paripraśna means question. That is also required. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is authorizing him. Therefore He says, kṛṣṇa-śakti dhara tumi [Cc. Madhya 20.105]. Here Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is authorizing Sanātana Gosvāmī. Unless he has got the power to receive the instruction, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not going to waste His time. He has the power. He is empowered. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. So He is empowering Sanātana Gosvāmī to take this task and spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. There is... You'll find in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta the verse, kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāraṇa. Without being empowered by Kṛṣṇa, nobody can preach the holy name of the Lord. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāraṇa. So without getting the power of attorney... Just like even one is qualified lawyer, he must get the power of attorney from his client, and then he can speak. That is the law. Similarly, without being endowed with the power of attorney from Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible to preach.



So our business is... Because we are preparing ourselves to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we must be qualified to get the power of attorney. Sometimes we speak that "I'll preach." What you will preach? First of all get the power of attorney; *then preach. Preaching is not so easy that anyone and anyone can preach without... Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāraṇa. So to get that power of attorney one has to qualify himself, not that the power of attorney is hanging in the tree and you can take it. No. So how this power of attorney can be achieved? That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. You are singing daily day, daily guru. Now, today is guru-pūrṇimā. Especially we should understand what is the power of attorney. Anyone can recite this verse, śrī-guru-caraṇa?

*Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrī*-guru-caraṇa-padma, kevala-bhakti-sadma, vando mui sāvadhāna mate.



*Prabhupāda: So this is the beginning, that if you want to be devotee, then you must approach the spiritual master who has got the power. Śrī*-guru-caraṇa-padma, kevala-bhakti-sadma, vando mui sāvadhāna mate. Sāvadhāna means very carefully, not whimsically. Then?



Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yāṅhāra prasāde bhāi



*Prabhupāda: Yāṅhāra prasāde bhai, ei bhava toriyā yāi. Huh? Kṛṣṇa*-prāpti hoy yāhā hoite. So why one should go to spiritual master? Because yāṅhāra prasāde bhāi: "My dear brother, if you get the benediction from the spiritual master..." Yāṅhāra prasāde bhāi, ei bhava toriyā yāi. What is that benediction? The benediction is not that "Cure my disease." They do not know, generally. Therefore they are cheated. The other day in Washington, one lady came with backache. So she came for curing the leg trouble. That is going on. "So you should approach a spiritual master? There is so many doctors, hospital. You go there." "No. Here you show me your miracles." And people are also cheating like that-some miracles and he becomes God. This is going on. But the miracle of spiritual master is yāṅhāra prasāde bhāi, ei bhava toriyā yāi. This is miracle: no more material existence. Then ei bhava toriyā yāi. So real thing (?) is one can cross over the ocean of nescience. That is real gain. That is the real favor of spiritual master, not that cure your leg and again walk here and again become, break your leg, and again come. Not like that. Ei bhava toriyā yāi. Then?



*Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Kṛṣṇa*-prāpti hoy yāhā



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa*-prāpti hoy yāhā haite. That is spiritual master, one who can give you Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa se tomāre, kṛṣṇa dite pāra, dhāi tava pāche pāche-Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. "Kṛṣṇa... I am seeking after Kṛṣṇa, Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, my spiritual master. So Kṛṣṇa is your property." Kṛṣṇa is not independent. He is the property of the devotee. Kṛṣṇa se tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāra, dhāi tava pāche pāche: "I am just following you, sir. Because Kṛṣṇa is your property, if you like, you can deliver: 'Take it immediately.' " So it is not flattering; *it is in the śāstras. Vedeṣu durlabha adurlabha ātmā*-bhaktau. You cannot get Kṛṣṇa by studying all the Vedas. Vedeṣu durlabha. Durlabha means it is not possible. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam [SB 10.14.29]. Prasāda-leśa. Prasāda-leśa. One who has got little favor of Kṛṣṇa, he knows Kṛṣṇa-tattva. Yat-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatāṁ gauram eva stumaḥ.



*Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he has made one poetry, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Kaivalya means to merge into the Brahman existence*-no difference, oneness. That is called kaivalya. So for a Vaiṣṇava the kaivalya is as good as the hell. Prabhodānanda Sarasvatī said, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. This kaivalya.... No Vaiṣṇava will say, "Now I am going to merge into the existence," no, because they hate it as hell. Kaivalyam narakāyate. Then? Heavenly planets? Tridaśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pūr means the heaven, where so many millions of demigods live. They consider, Vaiṣṇava consider as ākāśa-puṣpa, will o' the wisp, phantasmagoria. It has no value. Ākāśa-puṣpāyate. That means karmī, jñānīs. Jñānīs, they are after liberation, merging into the existence, Brahman existence, kaivalya. The Vaiṣṇava thinks, "Oh, this achievement is as good as one who goes to the hell." Then? Heavenly planet? Karmīs? They might have pious activities. They want to go to the heavenly planet. So Vaiṣṇava says that "What is this heavenly planet? It is phantasmagoria. It has no..." Actually it is so. Then yogi? The yogi's main business is to control the senses. That is real yoga. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Controlling the senses so that mind can be in a peaceful condition... Without controlling your senses, mind cannot be. Then you can apply this mind for meditation. If the mind is agitated, what is this nonsense meditation? First of all control the mind; *then think of meditation. Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā. We have to meditate with the mind. But if the mind is agitated, where is the question of meditation? It is all bogus. So for a yogi the first business is yama-niyama, āsana, prāṇāyāma, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, pratyāhāra-aṣṭa, aṣṭāṅga-yoga. Then one's mind is controlled. Then dhyānāvasthita. Then he can remain in trance, always thinking of Viṣṇu. That is yoga. So first thing is to control the mind, control the senses.

*So that is also, I mean to say, declined by a devotee. He says that durdānta indriya*-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. The senses are just like venomous serpent, always agitating. And as soon as one sense touches another sense, then the spiritual life is finished. Just like the serpent, if he touches even little, immediately your life is finished, similarly, our senses are very strong, just like as strong as the serpent, uncontrollable. So why it is so dangerous? Because it has got the fang. He has got fang, poison. But there are physicians, in the Āyurvedic physician. They know. They capture snakes and they take away the fang for making medicine. They are also used as medicine. So if the poison teeth is broken, then it is not more dangerous, no more dangerous. It may have very big hood, but one knows that his poison teeth is taken away, he is not afraid. It may be very fearful to the children, but a grown-up man who knows his poison teeth is no longer there, he is not afraid. In Bengal he is called viṣṇai kulama cakra (?): "There is no poison, and you have got a very big hood."

*So how it is possible? First thing is kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa*-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate, and durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta daṁṣṭrāyate. How it is possible? Now, viśvaṁ sukhāyate. This material is miserable for everyone. For a devotee it is not at all miserable. Sukhāyate. In this New York City there are so many skyscraper buildings. Bring all of them and compare our happiness. See practically. Here is a skyscraper building, and there are others. And call them and ask them, "Are you happy like us?" So we can turn this whole world like that. Viśvaṁ pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate. It is possible. Everyone is hankering, working so hard day and night, and there is fire brigade, "gon-gon-gon-gon." It is going on. (laughter) This is life. That is not happiness. Here is happiness. Come here, sit down, and you'll find happiness. Practical. If is practical. So if you expand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you'll find whole world full of happiness. Viṣvaṁ pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate. How it is possible? Yat-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatāṁ gauram eva stumaḥ. It is possible simply by the mercy glance of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If He simply glances over anybody, then the whole thing happens.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving, empowering Sanātana Gosvāmī. So we should follow. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, ei chai gosāi yār, tāro mui dās: "I am servant of that person who has followed the six Gosvāmīs."

ei chai gosāi yār, tāro mui dās

*tān sabāra pada*-reṇu, mora pañca-grās



*Narottama dāsa says, "By... Their dust of lotus feet is my subsistence." So today Sanātana Gosvāmī's birthday? Disappearance. Disappearance and appearance the same. His disappearance here, appearance somewhere. Just like sunset somewhere is immediately, sunset and sunrise, simultaneously. So for a Vaiṣṇava, because he is under the order of Kṛṣṇa, he appears somewhere and disappears somewhere because he is order*-carrier. He says, "Now go there. Preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Go there." So appearance here, disappearance there. Therefore the same thing. Then what is the next line?



*Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya... **.



*Prabhupāda: Cittete kariyā aikya. Now this is the determination. We must approach the real guru, empowered guru, with power of attorney. Then if we take his word... Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā, āra nā kariyā mane... **. Don't try don't manufacture ideas. Then if you take up that seriously, then your life is successful. Guru-mukha-padma, cittete, āra nā kariyā mane. Don't spoil yourself by manufacturing ideas. Take word from him. You carry it out. Don't bother whether you'll be spiritually advanced or not, but take the word of the spiritual master and carry it. Then everything is guaranteed. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriyā mane āśā **. Then?



*Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrī*-guru-caraṇe rati...



*Prabhupāda: Śrī*-guru-carane rati, ei sei uttama-gati. You want advancement in spiritual consciousness, but it is possible only-śrī-guru-caraṇe rati. If you keep your faith only on the lotus feet of your guru, then you'll make advance. There is no doubt about it. Then?



Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Ye prasāde pūre sarva āśā.



Prabhupāda: Ye prasāde pūre... We have got so many desires, but if we have got strong faith at the lotus feet of guru, everything will be fulfilled automatically. Ye prasāde pūre sarva āśā. Then?



Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Cakhudāna dilo yei...



Prabhupāda: Cakhudāna dilo yei, janme janme prabhu sei. Guru's business is cakhudāna. We are kept in the darkness of this material existence, and guru's business is to open it, bring him to light. That is guru, not to keep him again in the darkness. Cakhudāna dila yei janma janma prabhu sei. Prabhu means master. Then?



*Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Divya*-jñāna hṛde prokāśito.



*Prabhupāda: Divya*-jñāna hṛde prokāśito. What is that divya-jñāna? Divya-jñāna is that we are all servant of Kṛṣṇa, and our only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Divya-jñāna. This is divya-jñāna. It is not difficult at all. Simply we have... We have become servant of so many things-servant of society, servant of community, servant of country, servant of wife, servant of children, servant of dog and so many. "Now let me become servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is divya-jñāna. Dīkṣā. Dīkṣā means from this divya-jñāna. That is dī. And kṣā means kṣapayati, expands. Then?



*Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Prema*-bhakti yāhā hoite....



Prabhupāda: Prema bhakti yāhā hoite, avidyā vināśa yāte.



Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Vede gāy yāṅhāra...



*Prabhupāda: Vede gāy yāṅhāra carito. You should understand this. So by the mercy of guru, by the favor of guru, we get prema*-bhakti. There are vidhi-bhakti. In the beginning we have to discharge devotional service according to the rules and regulations of the śāstra, the instruction of guru, śāstra-vidhi. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim avāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. Kṛṣṇa says, "This śāstra-vidhim, the vidhi-mārga, if one gives up the śāstra-vidhi and manufactures his own way," na siddhiṁ sāvāpnoti, "he does not get success," na sukham, "neither happiness," na parāṁ gatim, "and what to speak of going back to Godhead?" Forget all this. Śāstra-vidhi. So this is minimized. So when we are practiced to vidhi-mārga, then we gradually get love of Godhead. That is ultimate. Premā pumartho mahān. Just like in India formerly they... Very small, minor-aged boy and girl are married, especially the girl, ten, twelve years, married. So how she can love her husband? She does not know. But there is vidhi-mārga. Vidhi-mārga, the elderly people of the-"Now, just to give your husband this refreshment." So she gives. In this way, gradually, when she's grown-up, she does not require any instruction; *she knows how to serve her husband. That is prema. That is the bha... But the beginning must be regulative principle. Prema, vidhi prema. Prema*-bhakti yāhā hoite, avidyā vināśa yāte. Prema-bhakti, avidyā... Unless we are free from this nescience of material existence, there is no question of Kṛṣṇa prema. Two things cannot go. Viraktir anyatra syāt. If you actually advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then naturally you'll be averse to this material enjoyment. Viraktir... Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. Just like if you are eating, naturally you are satisfying your appetite. So kṛṣṇa-bhakti means we are satisfying automatically all our desires. That is Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. The more we advance in Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, you'll have no more material desires. Then?



*Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrī*-guru kāruṇa-sindhu.



*Prabhupāda: Śrī*-guru kāruṇa-sindhu, adhama janāra bandhu.



Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Lokanātha lokera jīvana.



Prabhupāda: Lokanātha lokera jīvana. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's guru's name was Lokanātha Gosvāmī. You have seen, those who have gone to Vṛndāvana. There is Lokanatha Gosvāmī's tomb. So, then?



Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Hā hā prabhu koro dayā...



Prabhupāda: Hā hā prabhu koro dayā.



*Devotees: ...deho more pada*-chāyā.



*Prabhupāda: So this, the one, that... We should seek the shelter of the lotus feet of guru. Then everything... And vede gāya yāṅhāra carita. It is not that it is sentiment that one has to become very strong devotee of guru. Therefore Narottama dāsa Tha..., vede gāya yāṅhāra carita. Not that I am talking something nonsense. It is because... Śruti*-pramāṇam. Whatever we talk, it must be supported by Vedic injunction. Then it is right. Just like we sometimes challenge these big, big scientists and others, and what is our strength? I am not a scientist, but how I can challenge? The Veda gāya. We have got evidence from the Vedas. Just like so many people are thinking that the moon planet is first. We are challenging, "No, moon planet is second." What is the strength? The strength is Vedic knowledge. We cannot accept it. So vede gāya yāṅhāra carita. Vedic knowledge is so perfect that you can challenge so many scientists. Yes. If it is not in accordance to the Vedic knowledge, then it is... We do not accept. If it is not to the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, we reject immediately. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. As soon as we see that one man is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we immediately group him in four classes: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Finished, that's all. "No, I am learned, and you are nothing. You have not... You have no degrees of university. I have got degrees." "Yes, that is all right, but your degrees and knowledge have been taken away by māyā. You remain in darkness. Ye timire jeti (?). You remain in the darkness." That's all.



*So Sanātana Gosvāmī is teaching us... Kṛṣṇa-śakti dhara tumi, jāna tattva*-bhāva [Cc. Madhya 20.105]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is affirming that "You are authorized by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you have come for My help. My mission is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness..." So He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He posing as a devotee. Therefore He is saying that "By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you are empowered, so you have come to Me to help Me. You are asking. That is very good on your part because," jāni, "you know everything." Dārḍhya lāgi' puche sādhura svabhāva. A sādhu, a saintly person, although he knows everything, still he remains very humble and tries to confirm from the higher authorities, "I think this is right. Is it not right?" He knows it is all right, but still, he waits for the higher authority to confirm it. So this is the relationship, Sanātana Gosvāmī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Study all of them very nicely and be advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you. (end)



760712CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.106

-

New York, July 12, 1976



Pradyumna: (chants verse, etc.) "Translation: Those who are anxious to awaken their spiritual consciousness, who have unflinching intelligence and who are not deviated, certainly attain the desired goal."

Prabhupāda:



acirād eva sarvārthaḥ

sidhyaty eṣām abhīpsitaḥ

*sad*-dharmasyāvabodhāya

yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ

[Cc. Madhya 20.106]



*So here the most important word is sad*-dharma. Dharma... In the English dictionary dharma is described as a kind of faith, but here it is said, sad-dharma. Sad-dharma. Sat means which exists, which never diminishes. In the Vedic knowledge we get information, asato mā sad gama: "Don't remain in the nonexistentional platform." Sad-gama: "Go to the platform of eternal life." That we can understand, what is sat and what is asat. Sat, cit, ānanda. Sac-cid-ānanda. We describe Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So that is sat. Sat means eternal. And so according to reference with sat and asat, there are two kinds of dharma. I... Several places in my books I have described, dharma means occupational duty, occupational duty. So if we are on the platform of asad-dharma, just like on the conception of this body... This is asad-dharma. Everyone knows the body will not exist; *therefore it is asat. So any dharma or any occupational duty with reference to this nonpermanent body, that is asad*-dharma. Asad-dharma. Whatever our occupational duties are now going on in this big city of New York... What is their occupational duty? The duty... Everyone is going to the office early in the morning. They have got... Everyone has got duty, but that duty-asad-dharma. Body will not exist; *therefore anything done on account of the body, that is asad*-dharma. That is not real dharma. Real dharma is when you come to the platform of sat. That sat we have to understand, what is sat and what is asat. Asat, nonpermanent. Everyone we know that this body is not permanent. And sat? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have to learn it. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The body is asat, it will be destroyed, but the soul, which will never be destroyed... Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarī... [Bg. 2.20]. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. That soul is never born, never dies, kadācit, at any time. Not that sometimes it dies and sometimes... No. Any time, kadācit.



*So this sad*-dharma means the occupational duty of the soul. That is sad-dharma. And except that duty, whatever we are doing, that is asad-dharma; *it will not stay. Now I have got this body, Indian body or Christian body or American body. But this, everything, this conception of Christianity or Indian nationality or American nationality*-everything will be finished with this body. Everything will be finished. Therefore all our engagements in this connection, they are all asad-dharma. It is very difficult. We are all engaged in occupational duties, all asad-dharma. But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gama: "Don't remain in this asat platform. Come to the sat platform." And the same thing is described here, sad-dharmasyāvabodhāya. So the human life begins when we can distinguish between sat and asat. If we remain in darkness without understanding what is sat and asat, then we are no better than dogs and cats. So the modern civilization, not only... Nowadays very big problem. People are very much attached to asad-dharma. They are not... Because they are so dull-headed, they cannot understand what is sat and what is asat. They cannot understand, dull-headed. Therefore brain requires to be clarified.

*The two words are used in the śāstra, alpa*-medhasaḥ and sumedhasaḥ. Medha means brain substance. So those who have got brain substance, they are called sumedhasaḥ, and those who have no brain substance, filled up with cow dung, they are called alpa-medhasaḥ. So this distinction I made in Chicago. It made a very great agitation because I discriminated that men are found to have more brain substance than the woman. So there was a great agitation. But this is fact psychologically, that brain substance in man is greater than the brain substance in woman. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ [Bg. 9.32]. But in spiritual understanding there is no such distinction because sad-dharma, spiritual understanding, has nothing to do with this body. The brain substance, more or less, is in connection with this body, but the sat, the spirit soul, it has nothing to do with the body. So long it has to do something with the body, that is called māyā. He's sat, but he is absorbed in the thought of asat. That is called māyā, what he is not. He is absorbed in thoughts of the bodily comforts of life. That is asad-dharma. The karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they are all asad-dharmī because there is reference to the body. Karmī, in gross ignorance he knows that "Everything is this body, so let me enjoy bodily comforts, sense enjoyment, as far as possible." Not only in this life, next life... Even if he believes in the next life, but still, he's after these bodily comforts. "I shall be promoted in the higher planetary system. I shall go to moon planet, I shall go to the Mars planet," and so on, so on. These are karmīs' plan. Anything within this material world, that is all asat.

*So the karmīs are too much attached with the asad*-dharma, total, cent percent. And the jñānīs, they are little intelligent, that... Jñānī means "I have tried so much to be happy with the bodily comforts, but it has not become possible." Then he tries to understand "Whether I am this body or something else?" That is Vedic injunction, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. When he is actually liberated he understands that "I am not this body." So he tries to get rid of this bodily conception of life, but because he has no information of the ultimate goal of life, he thinks that "If I merge with the Supreme, then my life is successful." But that is also asad-dharma, because this impersonal understanding will not help him because he is person. Every one of us, we are person. We cannot stay on the impersonal platform. That is not possible. Artificially if we try to stay on the impersonal platform, it will not stay. Then we shall fall down again. Just like this moon excursion or the Mars. They do not get actually shelter there; therefore they fall down again, come here. With some stone and sand, they are satisfied. Because they did not get any shelter, they fall down.

*So śāstra therefore forbids or gives warning, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. The same example. With great endeavor, with much expenditure you may go eighty thousand miles per hour, but unless you get shelter, you have to again come back to this, either in America or Russia. They tried, but they could not get shelter. Similarly, the one may understand that he is spirit soul and he may try his best to merge into the spiritual effulgence, Brahman-ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I shall remain in Brahman"-but because he is person, the impersonalism condition will not be helpful to him, and because he has no personal view of the supreme spirit*-he cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa-naturally he again comes back to this material world and surrenders to the material subject matter. Sometimes he is engaged in philanthropic work or altruistic work. He thought, "This is the best service. instead of serving myself, let me serve the whole humanity, whole community, whole nation," so on, so on, so on. But they are all asad-dharma. They are not sad-dharma.

*So when one is actually in sad*-dharma or he is hankering after sad-dharma, then Kṛṣṇa helps him. Kṛṣṇa helps him. That we get information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, so Kṛṣṇa gives him opportunity. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi.

teṣām evānukampārtham

*aham ajñāna*-jaṁ tamaḥ

*nāśayāmy ātma*-bhāva-stho

*jñāna*-dipena bhāsvatā

[Bg. 10.11]



*Kṛṣṇa gives him real knowledge. Therefore guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. So he becomes more and more inquisitive to understand what is sad-dharma. So sad-dharmasyāvabodhāya. If one is actually serious, nirbandhinī matiḥ... Nirbandhinī matiḥ means with firm conviction that "In this life I shall be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, I shall understand fully Kṛṣṇa." In this way if we have got firm determination, then Kṛṣṇa will help. That is, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, sidhyaty eṣām abhīpsitaḥ. If one is actually eager to understand his position and his goal of life, then Kṛṣṇa will help. We require determination. That is wanted. Laulyam ekaṁ mūlyam. Laulyam, to advance in spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the value is only strong eagerness, laulyam, that "I must finish this business in this life, to understand Kṛṣṇa." There are many śāstric references. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. Simply we should be very seriously eager. Then very soon, acirād eva sidhyaty abhīpsitaḥ, immediately... If not immediately... We should patiently. Simply we should be very, very eager. Tatra laulyam ekaṁ mūlyam. Laulyam means very greediness or... We can say, "How I shall approach Kṛṣṇa?" This greediness required, not greediness for sense gratification. Then we shall be implicated more and more.



*The greediness... Greediness is very good. Kāmaṁ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. Strong desire, that is called lust. So, but this strong desire... Just like gopīs. The gopīs, they were village girls. They had no understanding of what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. But they became very much lusty for Kṛṣṇa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended that ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhūbir yā kalpitā: "There is no better type of worship than what was conceived by the gopīs." Their strong desire, "How we shall get Kṛṣṇa?" that was their day and night thought. That's all. Somebody is thinking in some way... The central point was Kṛṣṇa. I have already explained that, that Kṛṣṇa was going to the pasturing ground, and the gopīs at home, they were thinking that "Kṛṣṇa's foot is so soft and so delicate," and that "We dare not to take His feet on our breast, but He is now walking in the fields, pasturing ground, naked without any... And the stones pricking. How much He is feeling pain." Thinking this, they became fainted. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended ramyā kācid upāsanā. These gopīs, they were not supposed to be educated. Village girls*-who is giving them education? They are not Ph.D.'s. But still, strong desire for Kṛṣṇa. And that is called yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ. Nirbandhinī, strong desire. It doesn't require any other price to become advanced in..., simply to become very strongly eager, laulyam. Then life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



760713CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.107

-

New York, July 13, 1976



Pradyumna: (chants verse, etc.) "Translation: You are fit to propagate the cult of devotional service. Therefore gradually hear all the truths from Me. I shall tell you about them."



*Prabhupāda: Yogya*-patra hao tumi. This is hao not haoḥ.



*yogya*-pātra hao tumi bhakti pravartāite

krame saba tattva śuna, kahiye tomāte



*So to propagate the devotional service of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it requires the fit person. Not that one can imitate. It is not possible. One who is fit to take this responsibility, he receives proper instruction and help from higher authorities. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu selected Sanātana Gosvāmī as the fit person, Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī. They were ministers, but when Caitanya Mahāprabhu first met them in Rāmakeli, in Maldah district, at that time the headquarters of Bengal government, so He thought... Not only He thought, but... These Caitanya Mahāprabhu associates, they are eternal associates. They appear somewhere... Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura appeared somewhere in Muhammadan family, Sanātana Gosvāmī was found engaged in government service, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was a zamindar's son. In different places. But actually they appear to fulfill the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore they are called nitya-siddhas. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is nitya-siddha friend, eternal friend. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa said that "Arjuna, when I spoke to sun-god..." Arjuna inquired that "Kṛṣṇa, how can I believe? Sun*-god is long, long millions of years ago. How it is that You taught him?" So what Kṛṣṇa replied? Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, you were also present there, but you have forgotten. I have not forgotten." So similarly, whenever Kṛṣṇa goes anywhere, His eternal associates also go with Him.



*So sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. About Caitanya Mahāprabhu it is said in the Bhāgavatam, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam [SB 11.5.32]. Saṅga, associates. Therefore we worship Caitanya Mahāprabhu with His associates. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. These are principal associates, and similarly other devotees of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, just like six Gosvāmīs and many others*-we have got the list in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta-so they are all nitya-siddhas, eternal. There are two kinds of living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. Nitya-siddha means they never fall a victim of māyā. That is nitya-siddha. Even though they are within this material world, they are never victimized. That is called nitya-siddha. And one who is victimized, he is called nitya-baddha. But the actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sādhana-siddha, kṛpā-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sādhana-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become again nitya-siddha.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to make the nitya*-baddhas again nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task. Just I was talking in the morning, it is very difficult task to... Just like a madman. A madman, to again bring him to the normal life is very difficult task. You have got in your country so many institutions. So the whole world, anyone who is in this material world, he's a madman.

*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera sei dāsa upaya (?)



When a man becomes ghostly haunted and he talks all nonsense... Similarly, anyone who is within this material world, they are all madmen. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to cure them by this treatment. So if anyone accepts this treatment, then he can make progress very quickly. Just like any madman, if he is under proper treatment, there is hope of his being cured. But the modern education is that to keep him madman. That is the defect of modern civilization. Everyone is madman within this material world, and the modern education is to keep him madman. Therefore they cannot understand our philosophy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy is very bona fide and most essential philosophy. Madman cannot understand, but that does not mean the process of treatment should be stopped. No. It must go on. It cannot be stopped. So therefore in the previous verse it is said,



acirād eva sarvārthaḥ

sidhyaty eṣām abhīpsitaḥ

*sad*-dharmasyāvabodhāya

yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ



*One must at least understand that we are in a... Everyone understands that, but māyā covers, does not allow him to understand properly. Here in this material world we are trying to become happy. Just like in your country is supposed to be most advanced in material civilization. They are trying to be happy. But we can see even in this New York City, nobody wants, still, twenty*-four hours there is blazing fire: "gan-gan-gan-gan-gan-gan-gan-gan-gan." Stop this. Why there is blazing fire? Nobody wants it. But there must be, because you are in the material world. However big, big skyscraper building you may have, you have to suffer. But these dull brain cannot understand, because madmen.



*So this dull brain has to be cured. All rascals, mūḍha. It is a fact. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Duṣkṛtina means simply unnecessary wasting time adjusting things materially. This is miscreants. They do not know that "For one type of advantage, I have to create hundred times disadvantage." This is the fact. We are coming from New Vrindaban. They are living very comfortably in open space. There is no such disturbance, twenty*-four hours, "dung-dung-dung-dung-kah-kah-kah-kah-kah." No. (laughter) No disturbance. But you have created some advantages to live in the skyscraper building. There are so many disadvantages also. So therefore sometimes the Indians are accused that "Believe in destiny." But that is actual fact. You cannot improve a single inch than you are destined. That is not possible. That is not possible. If you want to increase your so-called happiness, then you simply waste your time. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Na tat prayāsaṁ kartavyam. "I am not in a good position economically. Let me try to improve it." That you cannot. Otherwise in New York City, so opulent, so materially advanced, why we see so many men in the Central Park lying on the bench? Why? They do not belong to the poor nation or poor city. Still, because he's destined, he must lie down there. Maybe he is rich man's son or born in rich nation, but because he's destined to suffer, he must lie down there. Because he's destined to suffer, he must become a hippie.

So you cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. That is not possible. Therefore those who are advanced in knowledge, they do not try for all these nonsense, improving material condition. It will not make happy; *it will increase problems. The so*-called happiness will increase problems, and you have to deal with that problem, then again another problem, another problem. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Just like they are trying to control over the laws of material nature. That is impossible. It will never be possible. If you solve one question, then you will have to meet with thousands of other questions. It is not possible. So... Therefore Vedic literature says that "Do not waste your time in that way. Better you utilize your valuable time to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful." Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you'll understand everything very nicely. Just like we sometimes challenge the big, big scientists, philosophers, psychologists, but we are not psychologist or scientist. Ten years before, in my Easy Journey to Other Planet, I have written that "This moon-going attempt is childish and waste of time." And still we are challenging that "Mars-going, so-called, it will also fail." Write it: It will fail. Not that process. So how we are saying? How we are challenging these big, big scientists? Because we know from the Vedic literature that it is not possible to go to the moon planet or Mars in that way. It is not possible. You have to qualify yourself. Just like to come to America one has to qualify himself for the proper visa, passport, and so many other things, bank balance, this, that. How you can go to the other? They are higher planetary system. So this is all childish. But if you want to go at all, then it is possible if you follow the proper process. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejya

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*So the intelligent person, they will try to attempt for this, mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām. "Let me become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa so that next life I go directly to Kṛṣṇaloka."



mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



That is the highest perfection of life.



*So if we accept... If we little understand this philosophy, that "There is another life, which is eternal, blissful life of knowledge," if we simply become serious to go to that life, then the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only method. But if we want to live in this rotten life of material existence, then we can continue. Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Whatever you like, you can do. But if you have got little inclination, then there is process. Therefore in the previous verse we have read, sad*-dharmasyāvabodhāya yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ. Sad-dharma means eternal life. Dharma means occupational duty. Here we are engaged in temporary occupational duty. That this dull brain cannot understand. Now I have got Indian body or American body, I am engaged in American consciousness, but as soon as the body is changed, I get the dog's body, then dog's consciousness. Whole thing changed. So therefore it is temporary. This consciousness is temporary, say for fifty years or a hundred years utmost. But this dull brain cannot understand that there is a life of eternity, blissful knowledge. The dull bra... So to... Just like a madman cannot understand. So our task is very difficult. We have to cure so many. It is not possible to cure all of them, but as far as possible we are trying to cure, and simply one has to accept this philosophy seriously, then he'll get knowledge. Sad-dharmasyāvabodhāya yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ.

*So it is the duty of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's representative to take instruction from Caitanya Mahāprabhu and spread it. That is here said, yogya*-pātra hao tumi bhakti pravartāite: "You are the fit person." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives you instruction. If you are unfit, then there will be no instruction. And what is the fitness? Fitness is he must be very eager to serve Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī approached: "My Lord, You have released me from this material occupation. Now order me what shall I do." This is wanted. One must be ready, very eager to carry out the orders of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then He will give you instruction. And as soon as you get the favor, mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu... It is very simple. Simply we must be serious. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tara ei deśa

*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*This is the sum and substance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. And the details are there, but this is the platform. You must be ready to become a guru simply by repeating the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad*-gītā. Therefore we have taken Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and following the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we are preaching to our best capacity. This is required, that you must be ready, you must be serious. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will give you proper instruction, and then you'll be very nice preacher for the benefit of the whole world.



Thank you very much. (end)



760715CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.108-109

-

New York, July 15, 1976



Devotee:



*jīvera 'svarūpa' haya*-kṛṣṇera nitya-dāsa

*kṛṣṇera 'taṭasthā-śakti', bhedābheda*-prakāśa

[Cc. Madhya 20.108]



*sūryāṁśa*-kiraṇa yaiche agni-jvālā-caya

*(svābhāvika) kṛṣṇera tina*-prakāra 'śakti' haya



Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins his instruction to Sanātana Gosvāmī because he's the appropriate person to understand. In the previous verse Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has asserted,



*yogya*-pātra hao tumi bhakti pravartāite

krame saba tattva śuna, kahiye tomāte



So the philosophy is very simple, but unless one is fit or appropriate person, he cannot understand. No. So in the material world we are materially diseased; *therefore it is very difficult for us to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. Otherwise it is very simple thing. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera 'svarūpa' haya kṛṣṇera nitya*-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. Very simple thing. Everyone, even a child can understand that we are, our svarūpa, our constitutional position, is that we are servant of God, Kṛṣṇa. But the material world is so bewildering that everyone is thinking that "I am master of everyone." This is the disease. "I am the monarch of all I survey." There is an English poetry. Everyone is thinking. Why this is so much struggle in this New York City? Because now there is Presidential election, so everyone is thinking, "If I could become the President." That is everyone's desire. But those who are not so fit, they do not stand for election, but those who are little fit, so they stand, make competition, "I am the President." If you are President, why you require election? The simple truth. If you are actually President, then why do you depend on other's vote? You become President. No. Artificial President. Simply by votes he is President. Actually he is not; he is the servant of the voters, but he's thinking, "I am President." This is called māyā. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. He's servant. Every one of us, we are servant. So take this example. Actually the President means the servant of the voters, and as soon as the voters do not like him... Just like Nixon is drawn back.



So nobody can be master. That is not possible. You'll find in this instruction, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. Only Kṛṣṇa is the master, and everyone is servant. This is our position, actual. But artificially we are trying to become master. That is struggle for existence. We are trying for something which we are not. We know this word, "struggle for existence," "survival of the fittest." So this is struggle. We are not master; still, we are trying to become master. The Māyāvāda philosophy, they also undergo severe type of austerities, penances, but what is the idea? The idea is that "I shall become one with God." Same mistake. Same mistake. He's not God, but he is trying to become God. Even though he has performed so much severe austerities, vairāgya, renunciation, everything... Sometimes they give up everything of material enjoyment, go to the forest, undergo severe type of penances. What is the idea? "Now I shall become one with God." The same mistake.

*So māyā is very strong, that these mistakes continue even one is very advanced so*-called spiritually. No. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu touches the main point immediately with His instruction. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy. Where Kṛṣṇa says the last word, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja.. [Bg. 18.66]. He is talking on the position; *He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is asking, demanding, "You rascal, give up everything. Just surrender to Me. Then you'll be happy." This is the last instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same Kṛṣṇa but acting as devotee of Kṛṣṇa; therefore He is speaking the same thing. Kṛṣṇa said, "You surrender," and Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Every living entity is the servant of Kṛṣṇa." That means he must surrender. Servant's business is to surrender, not to argue with the master or to claim that "I am equal with you." These are all fanatic, mad proposal.

*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya



A servant cannot become master. That is not possible. But as soon as... As long as we shall persist on this wrong conception of life, that "I am not master; I am servant," er, "I am not servant; I am master," then he will suffer. The māyā will give him suffering. Daivī hy eṣā. Just like outlaws, rogues and thieves, they defy government order: "I don't care for government." But that means he voluntarily accepts suffering. He has to take care of government law. If he does not ordinarily take care, outlaw, then he'll be put into the prison house and by force, by beating, by punishment, he has to accept: "Yes, yes, I accept."



So this is māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayi mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. We are under the rulings of the māyā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Why? Because we are declaring master. Servant is declaring to become master; therefore suffering. And as soon as we accept that "I am not master; *I am servant," then there is no suffering. Very simple philosophy. That is mukti. Mukti means just come to the right platform. That is mukti. Mukti is defined in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti means to give up this nonsense business, anyathā. He is servant, but he's thinking master. That is ankatha (?), just the opposite. So when he gives up this opposite conception of life that he is master, then he is mukti; *he's liberated immediately. Mukti does not take so much time that you have to undergo so much severe austerities and go to the jungle and go to the Himalaya and meditate and press your nose and so many things. It doesn't require so many things. Simply you understand plain thing, that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa"*-you are mukta immediately. That is the definition of mukti given in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa avasthitiḥ. Just like even a criminal in the prison house, if he becomes submissive that "Henceforward I shall be law-abiding. I then shall obey the government laws very obediently," then sometimes he is released prematurely on account of giving a declaration.

*So we can become immediately liberated from this prison house of material existence if we accept this teaching of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. And therefore so many arrangement. We are having Kṛṣṇa Deity here, and every one of us, we are engaged as servant. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṇgāra-tan-mandira-mār janādau **. Somebody is engaged in cleansing the temple. All servant, we are. Somebody is engaged in dressing the Deity. Somebody is engaged in preparing nice foodstuff for Deity. Somebody is making flower garlands. Somebody is going to distribute literature to make people understand the glories of Kṛṣṇa. So in this way Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means everyone is engaged cent percent to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So those who are sincerely engaged in the service of the Lord, they are all liberated. They are all liberated. The Māyāvādīs who are trying to become liberated in so many ways, mystic yoga practice and austere penances, and so on, so on, so on, so on... You can get that liberty immediately, simply by engaging yourself in some service of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even little service you give, it is your permanent asset. Even if you fall down from that service platform, still, whatever you have done, it will never go in vain. As soon as there is opportunity, again you shall begin from that point where you left. Therefore everyone... Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ [SB 1.5.17]. There is a verse spoken by Nārada Muni, that even by sentiment, not understanding properly the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even by sentiment-"All right, let me also dance and chant like these people, the saffron-colored, shaved-head people are doing. Let me do that"-so once dancing with them will never go in vain. It will (be) immediately accounted, "Ah, he has danced." It is so nice. It will never go in vain. Then these children are dancing. Don't think it is spoiling time. Everything is recorded. This you will find in the, our Nectar of Devotion. You'll find. Rūpa Gosvāmī... It will never go in vain. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also sings, keno māyār bośe, yāccho bhese', khāccha hābuḍubhu bhāi, jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, ei viśvās, korle to' ār duḥkha nāi. Everyone is being washed away by the big waves of the ocean of nescience, but if he simply accepts, "No, I am Kṛṣṇa dāsa. I am not master. I am not God. I am simply a servant..." And the more you become servant of the servant, more you are perfect. Not directly servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. This is perfection. Don't try to become directly Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Kṛṣṇa's servant, his servant, his servant, his servants*-you come down to the hundredth point of servant; then you are perfection.

*tāndera caraṇa*-sevi-bhakta-sane vās

janame janame mora ei abhilās



Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, "Let me become the servant of the servant and live with devotees [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. That is my desire."



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that let us live amongst devotees. Why we are struggling to get so many centers open? Because devotees will live there, follow the regulative principles according to the instruction of the śāstra and spiritual master, guided by, and people will get chance. As soon as one comes in this society of devotee, he'll get some opportunity. And svalpam apy asya... That is meant. Even by sentiment one comes... Tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ [SB 1.5.17]. The Nārada Muni said, "Even by sentiments, one gives up his occupational duty, so-called occupational duty, and surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, even not understanding fully..." So śāstra says, "What is the loss there?" And if one is performing one's material duties very perfectly, then what is gain there? He's simply wasting time. And a devotee, even by sentiment or whimsically comes in this center and gives some service, that is a permanent record. And these karmīs, although they are acting very sincerely, but there is no guarantee what is the next life. He may become a dog. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and tyaktvā deham... Or what is that? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. These will be dehāntara, change of this body. The body will be finished, everyone knows, but body being finished, you are not finished; *nobody is finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Then he has to accept another body. So if we do not work according to the rules and regulation of nature, then we have to accept another body, and we do not know what kind of body you are going to accept. But it will be a gift by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. Eh? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. So they do not know these things, the rascal civilization. Just like dancing like dog, that's all. This is rascal civilization. They have no responsibility of life, and dancing like dog. No. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific movement. Everyone should try to understand. If he wants to understand through science, through philosophy, through logic-in any way-through religion, through culture-anyway he wants to understand, we have got volumes of books. Try to understand. It is not a bluff. It is all scientific. So either you accept as Kṛṣṇa, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa... [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. If you immediately accept the words of, accept the words of Kṛṣṇa-sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]*-that is very good. But if you are very learned philosopher, scientist, then read books. Both ways we have prepared to convince you.

So,

*jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya*-dāsa

*kṛṣṇera taṭasthā-śakti bhedābheda*-prakāśa

[Cc. Madhya 20.108]



*Bhedābheda*-prakāśa. Bheda means difference, and abheda means one. Two philosophies are going on. The Māyāvādīs, they say, "We are the same." So 'ham: "I am the same." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am the Supreme Brahman." But the Vedic literature says, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but Kṛṣṇa, or God, is Param Brahman. In the Vedas there is no such thing as ahaṁ paraṁ brahmāsmi. No. They are misusing. The... Instead of understanding... Brahman, every one of us, we are Brahman. There is no doubt about it. But unfortunately, by mistake, by illusion, I am thinking, "I am this body." So spiritual education means first of all one has to understand that ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this body." That is the beginning of spiritual education.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



One has to become first of all... Not become. Just to understand one has to come to the platform of Brahman. Then spiritual education begins.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

naśocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām



*So bhakti is not very ordinary thing. It begins after one is liberated. The Māyāvādī says that "By bhakti one can become one with God." No. That is not bhakti. That is Māyāvāda. That is mistake. Bhakti means to understand that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." This conviction is possible when one is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Brahma-bhūta means "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa," as it is said, sūryāṁśa-kiraṇa, yaiche agni-jvālā-caya, svābhāvika kṛṣṇera... Oh... When one understands this, that "I am... My position is eternal servant," that is brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20]. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Then undoubtedly he becomes immediately jubilant, that "Now I have got my real master to serve. I am serving so many, I mean, items, in the family, in the society, in the community, in the nation. But I could not be satisfied. Neither I am..., persons to whom I have given my service, they are also not satisfied." This is wrong service. Nobody is satisfied. The so-called master is not satisfied, and the so-called servant is not satisfied. The so-called servant means that "Unless you pay me, I am not going to serve you." Strike. "I am your master. You pay me. Then I shall serve you." So nobody is servant actually. Everyone wants to become master, either collectively or individually. That is māyā. This is material world. And when one understands that he is not a master-he is servant*-and the real master is Kṛṣṇa, that is liberation.



*So bhedābheda-prakāśa. So the living entity is simultaneously one and different. The two philosophies are going on. One philosophy, Māyāvāda, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, miscalculation, so 'ham-this is to become one. And another philosophy, Vaiṣṇava philosophy*-that we are different. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that both are true. Bhedābheda-prakāśa. A living entity is one with God and is as different from God. Bhedābheda-prakāśa. One? How one? Because Kṛṣṇa says that "Living entities are My part and parcel." Just like this hand, this finger, is part and parcel of my body, so therefore it is one. But the finger is not the whole body. Different. It is very simple thing. Bhedābheda-prakāśa. Anyone can understand. The finger... The tree... Just like the leaf, the twigs, the flowers, the fruits. They are all tree. But at the same time, it is not tree; it is leaf, it is branch, it is twig, it is flower. It is very simple philosophy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained, taṭasthā-śakti, marginal. Marginal means the living entity has to become servant. That is his position. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. But when the servant wants to become master, he is under the clutches of māyā. And when he understands that "I am not master; I am servant," he is under Kṛṣṇa. That is taṭasthā. Taṭasthā means marginal. That taṭa... Taṭa means the beach. Sometimes the beach is covered with water, and sometimes it is land. That is called taṭasthā. So that land, sometimes water.

*So when we accept Kṛṣṇa as our master, then we are in the Vaikuṇṭha planet. And when we do not accept... That propensity we have got, sometimes by forgetfulness or sometimes by willingly. By forgetfulness if we think that "I am master," that is also mistake. And willingly, if we reply, "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Let me become Kṛṣṇa," this Māyāvāda philosophy, "Let me become God..." So all these things are māyā. Real position to become... Not become. We are. But to become sane. Now, in madness, we are talking all this nonsense that "I am one with God. I am God." We have to be treated. This treatment is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By hearing, by chanting-ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]*-all the mistakes within our the core of our heart is dispel... Then we come to the understanding. Then,

*sūryāṁśa*-kiraṇa, yaiche agni-jvālā-caya

*svābhāvika kṛṣṇera tina*-prakāra śakti haya



*Now, we are grouped under the taṭasthā-śakti, and there are other two potencies, or energies. That is called spiritual energy and material energy, the spiritual world and material world. We have got experience of the material world not completely. We do not know even what are going on in the whole material world. We see the universe. We see at night so many stars and planets, but we have no idea. So we do not know even what is this material world perfectly, and what to speak of spiritual world. But the spiritual world is there, as there is this material world, and the living entity belongs to the spiritual world. Actually he belongs to the spiritual world. By chance or some way he has come to the material world. So when he goes back again to the spiritual world, then he gets his normal condition of life. Unfortunately, in the modern education there is no information of the spiritual world, the spiritual identity, and go on, our relationship with God*-nothing. Simply they are working like cats and dogs under the influence of māyā and the suffering. To stop this suffering, one must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and understand the position of his life and be perfect.



Thank you very much. (end)



760717CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.110

-

New York, July 17, 1976



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (chants verse, etc.) "Translation: Just as the illumination of a fire, which is situated in one place, is spread all over, the energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Parabrahman, are spread all over this universe."



Prabhupāda:



*eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis

tathedam akhilaṁ jagat



Akhilam, entire; *jagat, universe. So this is the manifestation of the potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Just like we read in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "I first of all spoke this yoga system to Vivasvān, the sun-god." The sun-god, the present sun-god, predominating Deity of the sun planet, is named as Vivasvān, and his son is called Vaivasvata Manu. This is the age of Vaivasvata Manu we are passing through. So Kṛṣṇa is person, and Vivasvān the sun-god is also person. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa could speak to him? Imaṁ vivasvate yogam. How He instructed him? Just like exactly Arjuna was instructed by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is person and Arjuna is person. Person-to-person talk. Similarly, that predominating deity in the sun planet is also a person, and there are many other persons. Just like when Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna talked, there were many, many others, individual persons. Similarly, in the sun planet, not only the sun*-god himself is a person, but all the population there, they are like sun-god, made of fire, their body is made of fire, they can stay in the fire. Just like the fish, their body is so made that they can live within the water. Similarly, there also there are many, many living entities. The sun planet is very, very big, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So it is all congested with population. And because they are all fiery, everything made there fiery, therefore it is a blazing fire, and the illumination is coming all over the universe. But they cannot understand this, the so-called scientists. It is not... Beyond their conception. But this is a fact. And the moon planet is also fiery, exactly like the sun. Therefore that illumination is distributed. But the difference is, so far I can remember, that the moon planet fire is surrounded by cool atmosphere. Because the heat is coming through some cool atmosphere, it is at night so pleasing. It is not vacant. There is also living entities. This is one of the heavenly planets. Heavenly planet begins from the sun, then moon, then Mars, Jupiter, like that. We have challenged this, that moon planet is beyond the sun planet. The moon planet is not the first planet. The sun is first, moon is second. So we have to learn from Vedic literature all this information. Many, many millions of years ago this Vedic literature was given to us. So about these planetary systems, everything is there, described. It is not unknown.



*So anyway, our point is, either the sun or the moon, they are localized. They are situated in one place, we can see. But the illumination, the heat or the cool illumination... Sun illumination is hot, and moon illumination is cold, very soothing. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that both things are there, and both things are required. It is not that unnecessarily. No. Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūrayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. This prabha, this illumination, the light coming from the moon, from the sun, śaśi-sūrayoḥ... Śaśi means the moon, and sūrya means the sun. So those foolish persons who are challenging, "Can you show me God?" rascal, why don't you see God here, śaśi-sūrayoḥ? You do not see the sunshine, the moonshine? Why do you say that "I did not see God"? Huh? What is this argument? If Kṛṣṇa said, God said, "Here I am. I am the moonshine, I am the sunshine," why don't you see Him? Huh? You have to see according to your capacity. You cannot see with your, these present eyes the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is not possible. Now see the illumination of God. Just like, practical, we can experience the sunshine. Everyone knows what is sunshine, but everyone is not aware of the temperature of the sun or the person within the sun. But that's a fact. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is liar. Kṛṣṇa said, "I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So sun-god is there, that's a fact. And then if the sun*-god is there, his devotees or his associates are also there.

So far we get information, all the planets, they are full of living entities. Janakīrṇa. It is stated in the Vedic literatures, janakīrṇa. Janakīrṇa means congested with living entities. Therefore we see New York City is congested with so many living entities. But if you go higher, then you cannot appreciate how New York City is so congested, or other cities are congested. So similarly, we have no knowledge of these planets, but each and every planet, millions and trillions, they are all congested, full with living entities. This is Vedic information. It is not imagination, imperfect imagination. No. It is fact. So we learn from the śāstra that on account of illumination of the moon, the vegetation in every planet is, I mean to say, flourishing condition, due to the moon. Still we find reaction of the moon on the waves of the seas and ocean. So everything has got its necessity. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktir. They are all acting as potency of the Supreme Lord. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktir. They are śakti; they are not śaktimān. Śaktimān means one who possesses the potency. And we are all śaktis.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu is going to explain the potency of the Lord-three potencies: spiritual potency and material potency and the marginal potency. How they are acting, throughout the whole cosmic manifestation, beyond that also, that very simple word, everyone can understand. The light is here, the bulb is here, localized, but the illumination is spread. And we can take advantage of the illumination. By the sun's illumination we see practically how trees are growing their leaves, their color. Everything is due to the sunshine, we have got practical experience. Where there is no sunshine, especially in these countries, all the leaves fall down, and as soon as there is sunshine, immediately millions and trillions of leaves come out. Immediately. Not that waiting. Immediately. At least in this way you have to understand how Kṛṣṇa's potency is working. That is the Vedic information, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktir. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Just like the sunshine is the potency of the sun and how it is acting wonderfully. Everything is perfectly*-the flowers, the leaves-perfectly done. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. It doesn't require any research work how this leaf has come out. It is coming out automatically. They cannot understand. They say, "Automatically." No automatically. There is the working of the potency, but it is so perfect that svābhāvikī, as if natural, coming out. Everywhere you'll find, in your body also, potencies. You shave your head, immediately next day again coming out, again coming out. But you do not know. Let the scientist say how it is coming out, his own hair, what to speak of others.

*So everywhere the potency of the Supreme Lord is working. Very good example, exactly like the illumination, sunshine, moonshine, they are influencing the creation and they are situated in their own place, and they are all different potencies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So this is the potency of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is engaged in Vṛndāvana, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Although He is in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, He is playing with His cowherd boyfriends and the gopīs and His father and mother, but still He's expanded all over the creation. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Just like we live in some apartment. Now we are here, we are absent from that apartment. God is not like that. God is in His apartment, at the same time universally present. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. He's everywhere present. That is God. He's not limited; *unlimited. That is God. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā, mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto [Bg. 9.11]. The rascals, they do not know what kind of... Kṛṣṇa, He appears like a human being with two hands and two legs. They do not understand what are the quality of these two hands, two legs. They think that He has got two hands, two legs like us; *therefore they are called mūḍha. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. Mūḍha nābhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Sarvato pāṇi*-pādaḥ. Not only two hands, but He has got many, many millions and trillions of hands and legs all over the universe. This is Kṛṣṇa. So don't take it as ordinary human being. Then you'll be calculated as one of the rascals. Don't be rascal; be intelligent to understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become liberated, immediately.

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naitimām eti so 'rjuna

[Bg. 4.9]



*That is the qualification. As soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa*-not thoroughly; *at least partial, what is the nature of Kṛṣṇa*-then immediately you become liberated. That is, Kṛṣṇa says personally. Naṣṭa prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. Prāyeṣu. Prāyeṣu means almost. We cannot become perfect in this material world, but to some extent if we become perfect, then our life becomes successful. To some extent. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. These things are there.



*So this expansion of energy, that is impersonal. But Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal. These foolish people, they do not understand Him. We see daily that the sunshine is so expansive, all over the universe, but it is..., the source of sunshine is the sun globe. That we see. So which is important? The sunshine or the sun globe? That we can see practically. And which is important, the sun globe or the sun-god? We can see every day. So similarly, God the person is important. God person is important. God... Just like the sun-god is important, and because he has his place, residential quarter, in the sun globe-the next important. And because his effulgence is distributed all over the universe, next important. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śakti. Actually, the illumination is coming from the sun-god. It is a material thing, and what to speak of spiritual body of Kṛṣṇa? That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Yasya prabhā. You can study Kṛṣṇa's position from the sun. It is stated here that eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā. So His potencies are working. What is the sun and the sunshine different? The sunshine is combination of illuminating molecules, that's all, but each of them particle. Not that it is homogeneous. Each and every that particle, kana-kana means atomic (indistinct)*-they are all individual. Similarly, in the impersonal Brahman effulgence, these living entities are small particles. This smallness is also described in the śāstra: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, such a small particle. They are congested. That is called Brahman effulgence.

*So if you want to merge into the Brahman effulgence, it is not difficult, because you are a small particle of spiritual identity. If you don't want your individuality, you can stay in the Brahman effulgence. That is not very difficult for Kṛṣṇa, if you want to merge into the Brahman effulgence. But what is the profit? There is no profit. Suppose if you are placed in the sky, in the sunshine, and if somebody asks, "Now, you remain in the sky," would you agree? Huh? Will anyone agree that "Let me remain in the sky as a small particle of the sunshine"? No. You can agree out of some sentiment, but you cannot stay there. That is not possible. Therefore, those who merge into the existence of Brahman, impersonal Brahman, they again fall down. Just like they are going moon excursion, Mars excursion. "Stay there." They cannot stay. Because, actually, whether they are going or not*-that's another thing-but there is no staying place. Simply rotating in the sky is not very pleasant thing. We have got experience in the airplane. If we go five or six hours in the planes, we become suffocated. So it is not possible. Therefore those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they again fall down, because they have no engagement in Kṛṣṇa's business. They never cultivated such knowledge. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because the Māyāvādīs, they think, "What is this nonsense, serving Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is māyā. We are not going to serve māyā. We are going to become one with God, with effulgence." That oneness, you can stay within sunshine and be burnt up, but you cannot stay there. After your whims are fulfilled or you become disgusted... But because you have no information of serving Kṛṣṇa, then come down again to this material world and serve māyā-so-called hospitals and other things, philanthropic work. Because they have no information to serve Kṛṣṇa, the result is āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. The Brahman is also paraṁ padam. It is not material; it is spiritual world. But because they have no shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they fall down again at the shelter of the māyā.

So this whole cosmic manifestation is nothing but expansion of the potency or energy of Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. This expansion of the energy, that is impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal: the original source, brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā. The sunshine is coming from the sun globe, but the sun globe is more important than the sunshine. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's personality is more important than His impersonal feature, expansion of His energy. In this way, if we understand, then it is very easy, what is the difference between impersonal and personal understanding of the Absolute Truth.

Thank you very much. (end)



751117CC.BOM

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.110-111

-

Bombay, November 17, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis

tathedam akhilaṁ jagat



*We were discussing this verse last Sunday night. So the example is given: just like fire is localized in a place but the heat and light is expanded. The vivid example we can see, the sun. The sun globe is situated in one place-every one of us, we can see*-and the heat and light is distributed throughout the whole universe. According to our Vedic conception, the sun is moving round, not the sun is the center. It is in the center of the universe, but it is going round. Kala-cakra. It is called kala-cakra. In Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,



*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



From *Bhāgavatam* we understand sun is not fixed up in one place but it is going round. And the whole universal planetary system, they are also moving, making the polestar, making the polestar as the pivot.



*So we can see that sun is in the center of the universe, but it is illuminating and heating the whole universe. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is situated in his own abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, but by distribution of His different energies He is all-pervading. This is idea. When you speak God "all-pervading"-His energy. But He is not different from His energy. Śakti-śaktimatayor abheda. Śaktimān, the energetic, and the energy, they are not different. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said*-Kṛṣṇa says-mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā: [Bg. 9.4] "I am situated all over the universe in My avyakta form, nonmanifested form." The manifested form is Kṛṣṇa. That is in Goloka Vṛndāvana. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He is distributed all over the universe, everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He is within the universe, aṇḍāntara-stham, and paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham, within the atom also. That is all-pervading. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So this is to be understood. The God is simultaneously localized and all-pervading. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think materially, that "If God is all-pervading, why He should be localized?" Why He should not be? That is answer. God is not under your dictation. He is all-powerful. He can do so. Remaining in His own place, He can be distributed. He can distribute Himself everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33].

*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac*-caktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*This is the conception of all*-pervading.



*So eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. So we should understand presence of God everywhere by His energy. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. There are many places in Bhagavad-gītā it is also said,

atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



Ekāṁśena sthito. As Paramātmā, He is situated everywhere. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,



*kṛṣṇera svābhāvika tina-śakti*-pariṇati

*cic*-chakti jīva-śakti aṛa māyā-śakti



So everything is parasya brahmaṇaḥ śakti. Whatever we see, that is manifestation of the Supreme Lord's different energies. The example is the fire and the heat and light. That's all. So heat is the material energy, and light is the spiritual energy. Just like when you feel some heat, you can immediately understand there is some fire. And if there is light, you can immediately understand there is fire. The light you can see, and heat we can feel. By feeling or seeing, we can understand the existence of God everywhere. This is intelligence, not that... They challenge foolishly, "I can... Can you show me God? I cannot see God, therefore..." No. Why you cannot see God? You can feel the presence of God by heat and light. Light. Light you can see. When there is sunshine, you can see both the light and the heat. So as it is confirmed in the Vedic literature, we should appreciate the presence of God everywhere by His different energies, exactly like heat and light.



*So this energy of Kṛṣṇa... He has got multi*-energies.

na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate

*na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate

*svābhāviki jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca

[Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]



*This is Vedic injunction. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Kṛṣṇa... Here He is playing on His flute, but His energies are working. Just like a big man, a big business magnate: he is sitting in his room, but his energy is working*-big, big factory is going on; *large amount of profit is coming automatically. So if it is possible for ordinary human being that he is sitting in one place, and still, things are going on by management of his energy, so why not Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord? He is sitting in one place. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. He is situated in His planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana; *still His energies are going on. The material energy is working, this material world. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Under His vigilance all the laws of material nature is going on. Exactly in time the sun is rising, the moon is rising. Everything is going on minutely, very nicely. Parāsya śaktiḥ. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. It is going so nicely that Kṛṣṇa hasn't got to learn how to do it. The machine is so perfect, it is going on perfectly. The flower is coming by His energy. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. The special seed you sow on the ground and a particular type of plant will come out, then rose will come out, a particular flavor will come out. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. We do not see how Kṛṣṇa's energies are working, but it is working. Don't think that "It is automatically... There was a chunk and there was..." No. Not like that. Everything. But His energy is so perfect. Just like if you want to paint one nice flower, you have to arrange so many things-color, and the brush, and the painting cloth*-and you have to apply your energies and... But still, it will not come so perfect. But Kṛṣṇa's energies are so perfect that we see automatically, but there is supervision of Kṛṣṇa. There is no question of accident. Everything is supervised. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. We have to do it with our hand, to paint a picture of a nice rose flower, but in the nature the flower is coming out. We see automatically. No. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is working, there but it is going on so swiftly, so, I mean to say, accurately, that he hasn't got to exact His energy, but it is working automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Whatever knowledge is required... If you have studied, you will find in the petals of the flower the color, exactly symmetrical, everything. Whatever color is required, it is coming out. We say "automatically." No automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā. The knowledge and the action of Kṛṣṇa is so perfect, it is coming out.



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that kṛṣṇera svābhāvika tina... Svābhāvika. Natural, automatically, inconceivable. We cannot conceive that, how it is working. So,

*kṛṣṇera svābhāvika tina-śakti*-pariṇati

*cic*-chakti jīva-śakti āra māyā-śakti

[Cc. Madhya 20.111]



So there are many energies, and all the energies now aggregated divide into three. One is cit-śakti, the spiritual energy; another is jīva-śakti, the marginal energy. Jīva-śakti... We are marginal energy. We are śakti; *we are not śaktimān. You must always remember. Jīva*-bhūtaḥ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhārya... Para prakṛti. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūta. Jīva is parā prakṛti. It is prakṛti. The other day I have already explained. It is not puruṣa. Puruṣa is enjoyer, and prakṛti is enjoyed, predominated. Prakṛti is predominated and God is predominator. So all these śaktis are under, fully under control of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. In another place:



*sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.44]



Every śakti is working under His direction. That is Kṛṣṇa.



*kṛṣṇera svābhāvika tina-śakti*-pariṇati

*cic*-chakti jīva-śakti āra māyā-śakti

[Cc. Madhya 20.111]



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu... That is the ācārya process. Ācārya. Acinoti śāstra, śāstrārtha. One who knows the śāstra*-artha, one who has assimilated the śāstrārtha, he is ācārya. So immediately He is giving evidence from śāstra.



viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-saṁjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



*The... He has divided the whole energy of Kṛṣṇa into three: cit-śakti, jīva-śakti, and māyā-śakti. So the evidence is quoted from śāstra, Viṣṇu*-Purāṇa, that viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā. Originally the Kṛṣṇa's energy is cit-śakti. Cit-śakti means spiritual energy, originally. Everything... Just like the sun and the sunshine. The sunshine originally shining, but when it is covered by cloud it is not shining. Within the cloud the real sunshine is there. So this material energy means it is covered by ignorance. This is the difference between spiritual energy and material energy. There is no two energies. Energy is one: viṣṇu-śakti parā proktā. That is parā, spiritual energy. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. Kṣetrajña means jīva-śakti, one who knows kṣetra and kṣetrajña. This subject matter is there in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam. So when Arjuna inquired, kṣetra-jñam, Kṛṣṇa replied, idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetram abhidhīyate: "This body is kṣetra, and one who knows this body..." Just like I say, "It is my body," so I am kṣetrajña.



*So here the same kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. The jīva-śakti, that is also spiritual. We are all spiritual, and this is our mistake, that I am thinking "I am this body." This is ignorance. The whole world is going on under this ignorance, that "I am this body," "I am this body." Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. If we study this verse, that anyone who is under the conception of..., bodily conception-"I am this body"-then he is no better than the animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and khara means ass. But this is going on. The whole, the so-called nationalism, nations... So what is this idea of nation? "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindustani," "I am Pakistani." Bodily concept of life. But śāstra rejects immediately. If anyone is under the bodily conception of life he is... Sa eva go-kharaḥ: "He is no better than the animal." This is the challenge of the śāstra. So all these so-called nationality, big, big nations, big, big races, caste, and so on, so on, what is their position? The position is that all of them are animals. That's all. This is the verdict of the śāstra. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. Actually this morning we were talking, one dog sees another dog: "Oh, he is coming from another neighborhood." He immediately begins to bark. Immigration department: "Why you are coming in this neighborhood? All right, you can stay here for three days. Then you must have to go out." The dog barking. So we have opened so many branches, but the basic principle is sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. All of them are on the platform of animal consciousness. This is the modern civilization. India was never meant for that. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. This high culture we have lost now. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. They never distin... Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, śuni caiva śva-pāke... [Bg. 5.18]. Because there was no bodily concept of life. This is India's prerogative. But now we are also developing the bodily concept of life and becoming one of the animals. There is no distinction. If one is in bodily concept of life he is no better than animal. It may be... The dogs are fighting that "I am dog, and you are a different dog." If the man also fights on that same principle, then where is the difference between dog and man?

So this can be understood when actually... Prahlāda Mahārāja was surprised when his teacher was teaching him how to deal with enemies. He was surprised: "Who is enemy?" So a Vaiṣṇava has no enemy. Vaiṣṇava is friend. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo.

*vāñchā*-kalpatarubhyaś ca

*kṛpā*-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo

vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.]



*Vaiṣṇava is meant for delivering the patita, the fallen. Fallen means fallen in the bodily conception of life. That is patita. So patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. Kṛṣṇa's also business is to deliver these fools and rascals in the bodily concept of life, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13], first pointing out that "You are not this body." Then knowledge begins. And otherwise, where is knowledge if one is under the bodily concept of life? He has no knowledge. And he is parā-śakti. But not aparā-śakti. The aparā-śakti... What is that aparā-śakti? Now, avidyā-karma-saṁjñā anyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. This material world means full of avidyā and karma-saṁjñā, and working hard like hogs and dogs day and night. This is material world. Material world means based on ignorance that "I am this body," and working day and night like hogs and dogs. That is material life. But human life, although we have got this material life, body, we should not be, I mean to say, bewildered. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. Ahaṅkāra, taking this body in the concept of ahaṅkāra, false ahaṅkāra, egotism-"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that"*-this is called ahaṅkāra. Vimudhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. And the whole world is going on.



*So if we want to become out of this ignorance, then we have to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise there is no possibility. And if we remain in ignorance, then we shall go on committing sinful activities and entangle ourselves in the karma*-cakra. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. If you don't give up this ignorance of bodily concept of life, and if you go on continuing this bodily concept of life, then we are becoming entangled in the laws of nature. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. And then we'll create another situation for another body. And another body means another period of suffering. This is going on. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ, na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam. Atma is sac-cid-ānanda, but on account of being bodily covered, encaged in this body, we are suffering. We are suffering. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "Bhārata, O the son of Bhārata dynasty, Bhārata..." So in the material world the suffering is there. But what is that suffering? Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. On account of this body... Now, in this season, we are feeling heat. Therefore the fan is there. But another season the body is the same, but season has changed. Therefore I will have to cover with hot coat and pant. So this feeling of heat and cold is due to this body. And what is this body, this material body? Therefore all our feelings of happiness and distress, it is due to this body. That we do not know. So therefore the best solution of miserable condition of life is to stop this material body. Then you become spiritually situated, and there is no more contradiction.

*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino anityāḥ

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



*That is the advice. We have to do our own business, self*-realization. That is tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Existence... To purify the existence we have to practice tapasya, not running like cats and dogs here and there. This will not make solution of life. Human life is meant for tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. This is the process. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you want to get out of this entanglement of distressed condition of material body, then mahat-sevām: you associate with mahātmās and serve him. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. And if you want to enjoy senses, then the path of darkness is there: tamo-dvāram. Then you do not know where you are going. Today you are human being. Tomorrow, after this body, you may become a plant or tree or something else. That is tamo-dvāram. We are pushing through darkness. But we should not remain in darkness. Jyotir gamaḥ, tamasi mā: "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light."



*So we have got so many books of knowledge giving us light, especially in this age, Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Take advantage of this and come into the light and make your life successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



760719CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.111

-

New York, July 19, 1976



Pradyumna: (chants verse, etc.) "Translation: Lord Kṛṣṇa naturally has three energetic transformations, and these are known as the spiritual potency, the living entity potency and the illusory potency."



Prabhupāda:



*kṛṣṇera svābhāvika tina-śakti*-pariṇati

*cic*-chakti jīva-śakti āra māyā-śakti

[Cc. Madhya 20.111]



In the previous verse we have discussed that fire is situated in one place, but it is expanding heat and light. We should always remember this comparison, that the sun is there, localized, and from millions and millions of years it is distributing heat and light. Take for... That is not yet reduced. The same transformation is going on. Similarly, we can understand very easily that God may be far away from us. He's not far away; He is within us, but we think like that: "God is far away." Simply we have no knowledge to understand. Just like in the morning, as soon as there is daylight we can immediately understand, "Now the darkness is finished; the sunlight is there." Gradually the sun comes out, and the whole day becomes very brilliant and warm. Immediately things are changed. Similarly, when we see that the nature's way... That is the heat and light of the sun, material world. So if everything is going on nicely, so how you can say that God is dead? Things are going on. Just like the heat and light is there; *therefore, even though you are within the room, you can understand the sun is there. Or even there is cloud covering the sun, that does not mean the sun is not there. So it is simply foolishness. We say sometimes that "There is no God. Can you show me? I have not seen God." These are all rascals' propositions. When we see... Any foreign country, you see that a city is maintained very nicely, the police is there, the light is there, the green light, the red light is there*-we can immediately understand that there is government. Any sane man, how he can say that government is dead? This is foolishness. There cannot be any question of "God is dead." If you say "I cannot see Him," so you cannot see even the government head man. Can you see the President always? But you have to accept that there is a system of government; therefore the head of the government is there.



*So actually God is there, and His system is going on in three potencies. In the Vedas we learn, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Para, the Supreme Absolute Truth, has many potencies, and all the potencies have been summarized into three. That is stated here: cic-chakti, jīva-śakti and māyā-śakti. Cic-chakti means spiritual potency, and jīva-śakti, living entities. We are also śakti, prakṛti; we are not puruṣa. Puruṣa means enjoyer, and prakṛti means enjoyed. We cannot be the enjoyer; *that is not possible. So śakti... In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is confirmed, apareyam itas tv prakṛtim viddhi me parām. When Kṛṣṇa described about the material energy, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], earth, water, air, fire... These are material energies, gross. And there are subtle material energies, mind, intelligence and egotism. Beyond that, apareyam... These are inferior energies. Beyond that, there is spiritual energy. What is that spiritual energy? Jīva-bhūtaḥ. That you know. (?) That is spiritual energy. That spiritual energy is always different from the material energy. Unfortunately the so-called scientists, they have no sufficient intelligence. On account of poor fund of knowledge, they are mixing up. They are thinking that there is no spiritual energy separately, but by combination of matter, chemicals, the spiritual energy comes into existence. That is wrong; that is not fact. Spiritual energy is completely different from the material energy. That is energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but spiritual energy is direct, and material energy is indirect. Both of them are energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and when there is question of energy, śakti, some energy, so we have to accept the source of energy. Just like electric energy. We see there is electric energy, but there is source of electricity, the powerhouse. How can you deny it? Those who are foolish persons, they think that a childish, that this bulb is giving light automatically. No. That is not fact. The fact is, the electric energy is coming from the background, the powerhouse, then about the bulb is giving light.

So whatever intelligence we have got, that is not our intelligence; *that is God's intelligence. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said. That intelligence is coming, but the intelligence, why you'll find different? So just like the bulb. There are fifteen-candle-power, there is fifty-candle-power, hundred-candle-power-according to the bulb, the energy is exhibited. Similarly, according to our power of reception, we can exhibit our intelligence, merit. But actually it is coming from God. Anything... The same principle. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the Vedānta philosophy, "Absolute Truth means the original source of everything." Everything may be of different varieties, but the original source is Kṛṣṇa.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



The devotee, he can understand. By the grace of God he can understand wherefrom the energy is coming, how it is acting. Iti.



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā...

*budhā*-bhāva-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ. Bhajante mām. This thing can be understood by the budhā. Budhā means one who is very intelligent, one who is in awareness of everything. He is called budhā. Bhāva-samanvitāḥ: "Oh, it is coming from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Then they become more and more a devotee. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta:



siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa

*ihā ha*-ite kṛṣṇe lāge sudṛḍha mānasa



*Sentiment is no... Sentiment is bhāva, but that is after full knowledge. When you can understand Kṛṣṇa is so great, so powerful, then your devotion increases immediately. Therefore we have to study śāstras for understanding His position, and if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then we become liberated person immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. So those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they should study Kṛṣṇa scientifically, not by sentiment. After full knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, when you become absorbed in Kṛṣṇa's form, that is called bhāva. Budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ.



So that bhāva stage does not come immediately. You have to practice gradually.

ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-

*saṅgo 'tha bhajana*-kriyā

*tato 'nartha*-nivṛttiḥ syāt

tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ

athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]



*There are stages. So, this is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā. Just like yesterday you made. They very much appreciated this Ratha*-yātrā ceremony, and they wrote very frankly, "Here is the point of meeting East and West." The newspapers, they have written like that. It is actually the fact. We cannot become united nations of united dogs. (laughter) It is not possible. Everyone is barking. And if you practice to bark, then simply some different types of dog, some bulldogs, some greyhounds, some this, some that. (laughter) So how they will be united? No. That is not possible. Here is unity, when you accept Jagannātha. There is unity. So actually, if we take Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously, scientifically, then there is unity.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Paṇḍitaḥ means learned. He is sama*-darśinaḥ.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Actually this is the platform where we can unite. And by practical example you have shown. Everyone was engaged in dancing and chanting, never mind whether Indian, American, black, white, children, or old like me. This is wanted. This is wanted. And when we thoroughly understand what is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and we understand, "Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is the central point of attraction," then our life is successful. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Mahātmā means great soul. So great soul, one who has understood that Kṛṣṇa is the source of all energies, just like the sun is the source of all material energy... So then we can become perfect. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. I request you that each and every one of you just become mahātmā, not crippled*-minded, but broad-minded. So that is possible when we understand Kṛṣṇa is the source of all energy.



Thank you very much. (end)



751124CC.BOM

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.112

-

Bombay, November 24, 1975



Prabhupāda:



viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-samjñā anya

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



*So we were discussing other night about the three principal energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are multi*-energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. From śruti we understand that the Supreme Lord is full of potencies. Even we are. We are a small particle of the Supreme Lord; *still, we are full of potencies. Just like you shave today, and tomorrow morning, by your own potency, the hairs again grown. We see actually things are happening. How it is happening, that we do not know, even in our body. But it is a fact it is happening. Things are happening. That means due to my potency. As soon as I leave this body there will be no more hair growth. The potency is gone. So as we are a small particle, mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ... [Bg. 15.7]. Jīva, the living entity is a very small particle, one ten-thousandth part of the top point of hair. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. So such a small particle, atomic particle of the Supreme Lord, has got so much potencies. We see different varieties of life, different intelligence all over the world. What is that? Potency. So if we have got so much potencies, just imagine what Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, has got, potency.



*So He has got potency. He is not niḥ śakti. He has got śakti. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna... [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Everything is happening on account of His potency. Just like in your body so many things are happening on account of potency, similarly, the gigantic universal form of the Lord*-His potencies are working. Everything is happening. The tree is coming out, the fruit is coming out, the flower is coming, the color is painted-everything. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Na tasya kāryam karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He hasn't got to do anything personally, but His potencies are acting. Na tasya kāryam karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Na tat-samas cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Nobody can be equal to Him or greater than Him. Sama. Asama urdhva. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is explained that Kṛṣṇa is asama urdhva. Nobody is greater than Him, and nobody is equal to Him. So anyone who is claiming equal to Him, they are less intelligent. They have no intelligence. Asama urdhva. Na tasya samaḥ. Nobody is equal to Him, neither urdhva. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "Nobody is greater than Me." Therefore God is great. If somebody is equal to Him or greater than Him, then he is not God. God is Kṛṣṇa.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



He is the original cause of everything. So he has got... He is working the whole cosmic manifestation is exhibited by His potency. That is described here: viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. That is spiritual potency.



*Originally the God's potency, Kṛṣṇa's potency*-cit-śakti, sat-cit-ānanda. God is sat, eternal; cit, full of knowledge; *and ānandamaya. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). You'll never see Kṛṣṇa nirānandamaya. Even if He is killing a demon, He is smiling. That is also ānanda. So the potencies of God, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu-viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā-they are not these ordinary potencies, material potency. Spiritual potency. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā kṣetrajñaḥ [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. Ksetrajña means jīva. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñaḥ. The living soul is kṣetrajña, and this body is kṣetra. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam, yad jñānaṁ tad jñānaṁ mataṁ mama. If anyone understands what is this kṣetra and kṣetrajña and what is their relationship-kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam*-that is jñāna, not this material jñāna. That is spiritual jñāna. So kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. As God's potency is parā... Parā and aparā. Originally everything is parā. And aparā means forgetfulness. This material world we forget Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is called aparā. But there is another parā. That is spiritual potency. There there is no forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately you become parā. Kṣetrajñam ākhyā tathā parā. Immediately you become parā. Otherwise you remain in the aparā, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], this material contamination. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā.

*Then what is this material potency? That is explained, avidyā-karma-saṁjñānyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. In between or besides this, parā and aparā, there is another śakti. That is avidyā, ignorance, darkness. Avidyā-karma-saṁjñā. And in this potency everyone has to work. Karma-saṁjñā. Without working, nobody can live here. You have to work. It is said that the lion is supposed to be the biggest animal, very powerful. So it is said in the Hitopadeśa, na hi suptasya siṁhasya praviśanti mukhe mṛgāḥ. Even if one is lion, if he thinks, "I am lion. Let me sleep and the prey will automatically come within my mouth," no, that is not possible. You have to work. Anyone, whatever you may be, you have to work. Kṛṣṇa also said in the Bhagavad-gītā, śarīra yātrāpi te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. In this... This material world means everyone has to work. Otherwise he cannot live. Therefore it is called karma-samjñā. Karma-samjñā anyā. And avidyā. If I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa... Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. If Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do, then-I am also part and parcel*-I will also have nothing to do. Everything will be there, present. But that is our real constitutional position. We don't require to work. Everything is there for my enjoyment. But because we are now in this avidyā, ignorance, this material darkness, therefore I have to work. Avidyā-karma-samjñā. Karma is meant for this materialistic person. Bhakta does not require to take to karma, karma, jñāna, yoga, nothing. These are all material. Karma, jñāna, yoga, and bhakti. There are four primary principles for spiritual realization. So out of the four, karma, jñāna and yoga, they are all material, but bhakti is not material. That is spiritual. Therefore Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī describes,

*bhukti*-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-sakali aśānta

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakta-niṣkāma ataeva śānta

[Cc. Madhya 19.149]



If you want śānti, then you have to become a devotee. Otherwise yayātmā samprasīdati.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



If you actually want peacefulness of your ātmā, then you have to learn bhaktir adhokṣaje. And this action cannot be checked, ahaitukī, if your bhakti is pure, without any motive. Bhakti means without any motive.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*Bhakti has no other definition, simple, pure. "Simply I shall carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa," as Arjuna did, that is pure devotee. He is not under the resultant action. Anāśrtaḥ karma*-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ. One who does not expect the resultant action... Karmīs, they are very much careful about getting the resultant action. "I am working so hard. I must have some material profit." That is karmī. Everyone in this material world, they are working so hard. Why? For some material profit. Therefore they are aśānta. Bhukti. Bhukti means sense enjoyment. So bhukti, mukti and siddhi. This is karmī, jñānī, yogi. The karmīs, they are expecting some good result, material result, sense enjoyment. That is karmī. And jñānī, he is thinking that "Material result has no profit. I have tried for it, but I could not get any profit out of." Gatila janja (?).



*sat*-saṅga chāḍi' khainu asate vilāsa

*te*-kāraṇe lāgila mora karma-bandha-phāṅsa



So jñānī means when he understands, "By acting for fruitive result, actually I have not gained anything." That is jñānī. One cannot get actually any good result. That is not possible. That is ajñāna. So jñānī means one who understands that "We cannot get any good result by this karma. So let me become one with God." That is... He does not know that is higher expectation. The karmīs are trying to become a big man, a big, very honorable man in the society, or minister or president. But when he is baffled... This is also wanting something, karmī. A jñānī, he wants to stop the small business; *he wants to become one with God. That is more dangerous expectation. So that is jñānī. So they also cannot get peace, because there is demand. Karmīs, they want something material, and the jñānīs, they tries to become one with the Supreme. Ekatvam. Ekatvam meaning we make differently, but the jñānīs*-sāyujya-mukti, to become one with God. So they cannot be happy also, because there is want. The karmīs, they have got want. They want something. And here also there is want, a different type of want. Karmī wants some material result, immediate sense gratification, and here is also sense gratification. He is expecting something impossible-"I want to become one with God." So they cannot also get peace. That is not possible. And yogi, they also wanting to be something, siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi. Aṇimā, laghimā, garimā, prāpti, siddhi, īśitva, vaśitva. There are eight kinds of siddhis. The yogis want to get these siddhis and declare that he has become God, the same, like the jñānī. People are hankering after. If some yogi, some..., play some yogic prakriyā, magic: "Oh, here is God." He does not see the wonderful magic which is going on throughout the whole universe. A simple magic captivate them.



*So Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kar therefore says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. They cannot get peace. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Kṛṣṇa bhakta, he doesn't want anything. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at least, teaches us, and that is the... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], zero, no abhilasa. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. In the platform of jñāna there is demand: "I shall become one with God." And karma, there is demand: "I must have the highest form of material happiness." Therefore jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam: "without any tinge of jñāna and karma." Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: "all material desires made zero, śūnyam." "Then I become zero?" No. That is your purity. When you are not contaminated by jñāna, karma, yoga, that is your pureness. And that purity, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Simply always be ready to serve Kṛṣṇa. Serve Kṛṣṇa. "Now, where is Kṛṣṇa?" Yes, Kṛṣṇa is there. You can serve. Kṛṣṇa is present before you in His sound representation, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa is absolute, and His words, what He has spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are the same. Kṛṣṇa's words and Kṛṣṇa, they are not different. The material world means my words and me, we are different. But in the spiritual world the words, the name, the form, the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, they are as good as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, if you discuss on the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, like Bhagavad-gītā, then you are immediately in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. There is no difference. So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. If you want to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, anu-śīlanam... Anu-śīlanam means cultivation. The words are there. The words are not different from Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as you take the words as it is, you immediately associate with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you take the instruction of guru, representative of Kṛṣṇa. If you can please your guru, yasya prasādad bhagavat-prasādaḥ... **. If you can please His representative, then you please Him. So in this way, kṛṣṇānuśīlanam, that is our duty, ānukūlyena, ānukūla, not pratikūla. There are two ways of acting, ānukūla and pratikūla. If you act as I desire, that is ānukūla, and if you act what I don't desire, that is pratikūla. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness must be ānukūla, according to the desire of Kṛṣṇa, as it is confirmed by guru. That is ānukūla, favorable. And if you act whimsically, which Kṛṣṇa does not desire or the guru does not desire, then it is pratikūla. So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], that is bhakti.

*So here it is said, avidya*-karma-samjñānya trtiya śaktir isyate. This material energy is full of ignorance, avidya, and karma-sanga. Here you have to work hard. But if you become devotee, then there is no need of working hard. Yoga-kseman vahamy aham. Then Kṛṣṇa takes charge. Kṛṣṇa takes charge of you. Kṛṣṇa has taken charge of everyone, but especially yo tu bhajanti yam pritya tesu te mayi. Those who are devotee, for them special care. So here we are careless. Nobody is taking... The materialistic persons, they are working in their own capacity, that "I shall become happy in this way, I shall become happy in this way," and therefore entangling, committing so many sinful activities. And he's not becoming happy; *more and more unhappy. Karma*-bandha. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, sata sanga chadi khainu, asate vilāsa, te karane lagile mora karma bandha phansa. So if we don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if we act independently, then the result will be that we shall be entangled in the laws of karma. Laws of karma means karmana daiva-netrena jantor deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. By karma we are creating another body, next body. That we do not know. Karma, according to my karma. Karmana daiva-netrena, supervised, decided by the higher authorities: "You have done like this; *you must get this body." Automatically. Automatically. Karanam guṇa*-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. Everything is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamanani guṇaiḥ karmani [Bg. 3.27]. If you don't like or like, it doesn't matter. If you have infected some disease which you don't like, that will not save you because you don't like. You must have to suffer from that disease. That is the law of nature. But that we do not know. We are acting independently. That is not possible. So therefore it is called avidya. Avidya means rascals. [break] ...acting independently without knowing that there is overseer. There is the supreme seer. He is sitting within your heart.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmāyān sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*Now Īśvara is seeing. You cannot do anything secretly. That is not possible. He is seeing. According to your karma, the next body is offered. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... He is seeing. He is witness. Anumanta updrsta. He is seeing everything, upadrsta. So He is asking the material nature, "Now this living entity wanted to act like this. So give him this body." Daiva-netrena. So you'll get a body, yantra. This body is yantra, machine. You are sat down on a machine, and bhrāmāyān sarva bhūtāni-sometimes you are in nice bodies. Nothing is nice. Everybody will die, so there cannot be anything nice. It may be, the duration of life, little more*-a dog's duration of life less than man's duration of life. That may be. But nobody is going to live forever. That is not possible.



*So this is anitya, this body, daiva*-netrena, by the order, prakṛti, prakṛti. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati, bhrāmāyān sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 18.61]. Sarva-bhūtāni, all living entities, are wandering, wandering not only here. There are so many planets, so many up and down situation. So we are wandering within this universe, within this material world, sometimes in good body, sometimes in bad body, and this is our life. Avidyā-karma-saṁjñā anyā. Under the influence of this material energy, on account of our ignorance, we have submitted to the laws of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha [Bg. 3.27]. He is thinking, "I am independent. I am now this. I am now that." Avidyā-karma-saṁjñā. Bhramāyān sarva-bhūtāni. Everything you will find this. So prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. This ahaṅkāra, that "I am independent," this ahaṅkāra is making you obliged to accept different types of body in different condition of life within the universe. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mahā-vadānyāvatāra. He is very, very kind incarnation. Rūpa Gosvāmī accepted Him, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. So He teaches, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Under this avidyā-karma-saṁjñā trītīyā śakti, material energy, we are wandering throughout the whole universe. (aside:) This child should be moved. So ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. So one who takes Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becoming happy, more and more happy. Karma-bandha. Narottama bhāgyavān jīva. Not the dur-bhāgyavān, jīva. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā [SB 1.1.10]. Those who are unfortunate, they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Kono bhāgyavān jīva. Kono means somebody. That is also not all. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many, many millions of persons, one wants to become perfect or bhagavān. And yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says the same thing, kono bhāgyavān jīva. Not always. Not the manda-bhāgyā. Sa bhagavān.

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



Guru and Kṛṣṇa. Two persons' favor, guru and Kṛṣṇa.



So Kṛṣṇa is asking to become a guru, everyone. Everyone become a guru, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says.

āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Āmāra ajñāya guru hañā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said... Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mahā*-vadānyāvatāra, most munificent incarnation to reclaim all the fallen souls. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. So the guru's business is to make everyone a bhāgyavān, fortunate. That is guru's business. The guru's business is... They are so much sympathetic that one can get Kṛṣṇa consciousness if he is fortunate. So guru's labor, guru's activity, is how to make people fortunate. That is wanted. Because without being fortunate one cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. And without Kṛṣṇa consciousness he cannot be relieved from this avidyā-karma-saṁjñā-śakti, material nature. Therefore it is the business of guru to make everyone fortunate. So how he can make everyone fortunate? That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises that āmāra ajñāya guru hañā. You follow the principles of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction first of all. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. You just take their mercy. Then you become guru. And then what is your business? His business is yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So guru-kṛṣṇa. Guru makes the people fortunate, and then the people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then he becomes fortunate. This is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Everyone is advised to become guru. Especially those who are born in India. They can easily take the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because in the blood there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness on account of taking birth in this holy land of Bhāratavarṣa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says,



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haile jāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



This is the business.



*So every Indian is expected to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and spread it outside India. There are many people who are hankering after it. It is the duty of every Indian to first of all get himself out of these clutches of avidyā*-karma-saṁjñā-ignorance and whole day and night working like hogs and dogs. One has to become free from these clutches of māyā, and then he must undergo tapasya. There is no difficulty. This tapasya is that you have to give up the four principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This is tapasya. It is not that you have to go to the forest or Himalayan mountain and enter into a cave and press your nose and... No, that is not possible. You simply practice. Wherever you are, you simply practice this tapasya-no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling and no meat-eating. Then you become perfect. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva [SB 5.5.1]. "This tapasya? Can we do that?" You can do it very easily. It is not said "No sex," but "No illicit sex." That is very sinful. Therefore one has to get himself married. That is allowed. But no illicit sex. No meat-eating. Why one should eat meat? There are so many nice things given by Kṛṣṇa, so many fruits, so many nice food grains. We can eat many palatable dishes mixed with milk. Take milk from the cows. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises, go-rakṣya. Without milk you will eat all rubbish things like hogs and dogs, and your life will be spoiled. Everything is there, practical. But avidyā, on account of our ignorance, foolishness, rascaldom, we are avoiding this kṛṣṇa-upadeśa and suffering. Be saved from suffering and be happy by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





760720CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.112

-

New York, July 20, 1976



Pradyumna: (chants verse, etc.)



viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-samjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



"Translation: Originally, Kṛṣṇa's energy is spiritual, and the energy known as the living entity is also spiritual. However, there is another energy, called illusion, which consists of fruitive activity. That is the Lord's third potency." [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...Bhagavān, the Supreme Absolute Truth, Viṣṇu, all*-pervading Personality of Godhead. So His potency... So His potency must be also spiritual. Just like the sun globe is reservoir of heat and light. Everyone will know. So His potency... The sun globe potency, sunshine, is also heat and light. It is not different from the sun. Śakti means potency. Śakti śaktimat abheda. The potency of a certain person is nondifferent; there is no difference in quality. The same example, the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the potency of the sun, but the quality of the sun and the quality of the sunshine is the same, heat and light. So viṣṇu-śakti, there are... According to the Vedic information, He has got many multifarious potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Different types of śakti. We can see different types of agency, er, what is called, energy, is working within this creation. Take for example the leaves of the tree. Some of them are green; some of them are red; some of them are yellow; *some of them are mixed. Similarly fruits*-different tastes; *flowers*-different flavor. Varieties. But wherefrom it is coming? The sunshine. The sunshine is the same, but it is acting in different way, so we see different manifestation. This is crude material example. Similarly, if we take the spiritual original, then the original is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. It is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya. All these colored manifestation, it is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Everything is coming from Me." So this understanding is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when you understand that there is one only. Eka brahma dvitīya nāsti. And Kṛṣṇa is above Brahman. We have got a slight idea of Brahman, generally, but Kṛṣṇa is Parambrahman. There are many millions of Brahmans, and above them, the Supreme Brahman is Kṛṣṇa. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna admitted.



*So Kṛṣṇa śakti... Everything is Kṛṣṇa's śakti, potency. There is no doubt about it. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā [Bg. 10.8]. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Vasudeva is everything. That is Kṛṣṇa. But He's working in so many ways. So many ways. How it is working? That is stated in the Vedas: svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca. He has got so unlimited potency that things are being done as if naturally, without any endeavor. But the background is Kṛṣṇa. Just like we see one flower growing, very small flower. The stem is very fine, and the flower is decorated even in their different colors. But it is not ordinary thing. If you are a painter, if you paint such a flower, it will take so many days. But it is coming. But don't think simply that it has come automatically. No. There is no such thing as automatically. Same as you, when you paint a flower, you have to employ so much energy, so Kṛṣṇa has also do that, the same energy. But it is because it is so natural for Kṛṣṇa, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Simply by His willing, it is happening. So He hasn't got to endeavor for it. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa's activities and our activity, although we have got the tendency at least. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got the same quality. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. Kṣetrajña means living entities. They are also of the same potency. So then what is the difference? The difference is that the kṣetrajña, the living entities, are prone to become under illusion. That is the difference. We are small, very small; *therefore we are prone to be extinguished. Just like the fire and the fire spark. The spark, when it is out of the fire, it is extinguished. No more fiery quality. But so long it is playing with the fire, you'll find the nice brilliant sparks coming, now dancing. The quality is the same. Fire can burn, and the small spark, it falls down, it will burn your cloth. It is very small, but it will... It has become off, illusion. This is avidyā. The same spark, when he's out of Kṛṣṇa's touch, it is extinguished, avidyā. Immediately he is covered by darkness, extinguished, his spiritual quality. Not finished*-at least stopped for the time. Spiritual quality cannot be finished because it is spiritual. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The spiritual quality cannot be finished. It goes on. And on account of avidyā, ignorance, it goes through another body, another body, transmigration of the soul. And unless he is again revived to his original consciousness, he has to go through that. He has to struggle for existence. He's trying to get his original position like Kṛṣṇa's brilliant position, like the fire.

*So this is called struggle for existence. Avidyā*-karma-samjñānyā. They are trying to be happy. You'll find in the New York City, they are simply struggling. What is the aim? The aim is how to become happy. Somebody is drinking, somebody is gambling, somebody is going to the restaurant, somebody is going to the Times Square, and somebody is going here, there. Their real aim is how to become happy. But because in avidyā, ignorant, they are unable to become happy. That is the position. Avidyā-karma-samjñā anyā tṛtīyā śaktir. This avidyā is illusion, illusion. Just like we are now enwrapped, covered with this body, and I am thinking I am this body. This is avidyā. I am not this body. So again he has to brought to this knowledge, that "You are not this body. Because you wanted to dominate over the material nature, therefore you have got this material body. Because you wanted to eat stool, you have got this hog's body. Because you wanted this, jump over unnecessarily, creating trouble, you have become monkey. Because you wanted to drink fresh blood, you have got the body of a tiger." This is called avidyā. He's not either tiger nor pig nor monkey nor this so-called human being, nor American, nor Indian. He's spirit soul. That knowledge one has to come. From that avidyā, from ignorance, one has to come to the knowledge. Then his life will be successful.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to bring back the human society, because it is not possible to bring back the monkeys and cats and dogs to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. So those who are of the dog's mentality, cat's mentality, monkey mentality, it is difficult for them. They have to change their mentality by sat*-saṅga. This is called sat-saṅga. Just like you are hearing from the śāstra, and we are speaking from the śāstra. This is called sat-saṅga. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. By sat-saṅga, by real spiritual association, by talking with them, by mixing with them-satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido-then we can learn about the unlimited potencies of Kṛṣṇa. Mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Then it becomes very pleasing to the heart and to the ear, by satāṁ-prasaṅgān. Otherwise it is not possible. If you go to a professional reciter, it will enter in this ear and go out this ear, that's all. Because there is no life; *it is business. So you cannot do business with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not agreeable to this proposal. He's master. You cannot utilize Him for your service. You must engage yourself to His service. That is wanted. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Then if we be in that attitude, that "Kṛṣṇa is my master; *I must serve Kṛṣṇa. I shall not take Kṛṣṇa an instrument to become my servant..." That is not possible, although it is said that catur*-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna: "Four kinds of men," sukṛtina, "whose background is pious, they come to Kṛṣṇa." One who is impious, he cannot come.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam...

[Bg. 7.15]



Why a few selected persons come here? Because it requires background of pious activities. Otherwise it is not possible. We do not expect that cent percent of people will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. But if there is one ideal Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he can do benefit to many thousands. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca taraḥ sahasrasaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, he can illuminate the whole universe, na ca taraḥ sahasrasaḥ, not these twinkling stars. It is not possible.



*So people are suffering. Avidyā*-karma-samjñānyā. Being enwrapped by avidyā, illusion, they are struggling for existence. So Kṛṣṇa personally comes Himself to deliver them. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. That is His two businesses. So the Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa's devotee, also take up the business of Kṛṣṇa by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and it will do good to him and as well as to the persons amongst whom he will preach. But preach. Don't manufacture preaching. Preach as it is in the śāstra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction: yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You do not become a rascal guru yourself by manufacturing some imagination, "You do this. Give me some money and you become God, you become this, you become..." This rascaldom don't do. One thing you do. What is that? What is said by Kṛṣṇa, you say. That's all. What is the difficulty? What Kṛṣṇa has said, you say. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. These four things, that you just become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa... How can I become devotee? Come to the temple, offer little obeisances, take prasādam. So what is the difficulty? If you say there is no difficulty... And if one comes, there is no difficulty. But they are so rascals, they will not come. We are giving so much facilities that "Come here, live in this nice building and hear about Kṛṣṇa. Take prasādam, chant and dance, very happy life." But they'll become hog. They are preparing their life for that purpose. They'll become a dog next life. They prefer like that.

So therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the topmost welfare activities in the world. People should try to understand it and join it and take advantage of it.

Thank you very much. (end)



760723CC.LON

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.113

-

London, July 23, 1976



Pradyumna: (chants verse, etc.)



*śaktayaḥ sarva*-bhāvānām

*acintya*-jñāna-gocarāḥ

yato 'to brahmaṇas tās tu

sargādyā bhāva-śaktayaḥ

bhavanti taptatāṁ śreṣṭha

pāvakasya yathoṣṇatā



*"Translation: All the creative energies, which are inconceivable to a common man, exist in the Supreme Absolute Truth. These inconceivable energies act in the process of creation, maintenance and annihilation. O chief of the ascetics, just as there are two energies possessed by fire*-namely heat and light-these inconceivable creative energies are the natural characteristics of the Absolute Truth."



*Prabhupāda: (indistinct) full of living entities, and the moon planet there is no living entity. They are doubting also in the Mars planet. But we get information from the śāstra that every planet is full of living entities. Every planet. Janakīrṇa. This very word is said in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, janakīrṇa, and there is vivid description of different planets and different types of oceans, just like milk ocean. We have got here examples, sweet water and salted water. So there is sweet ocean also. That is mentioned in the śāstra. Not that in this planet there is salted ocean and... There are other planets where there is sweet water ocean and milk ocean and liquor ocean and oil ocean, ghee ocean, butter ocean, milk, butter ocean, and so many different types.



*So if we bring everything to our conception, that becomes cintya, conceivable, but that is not the fact. Therefore here it is stated, acintya*-jñāna-gocarāḥ. We have to receive this knowledge from sources which can inform us about all these things inconceivable by us. It is not possible to bring the inconceivable within our conceivable limit. That is not possible. That is foolishness. Mūḍha. Mūḍha will not believe. We are finding out, try to... This is knowledge. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. To find out the source of everything the Absolute Truth, and when the Absolute Truth comes down to inform us, Kṛṣṇa, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8], we don't believe it. First of all we cannot understand it, and if the Supreme Personality of Godhead comes personally to speak about Himself, we do not believe it. This is our position. First of all we shall challenge, "Can you show me God?" And if God comes Himself we don't believe, then what is our position? You want to see God. All right, God has come here. See, here is God. "No, this is idol worship." In the Bengali there is a word, ei gule nipamsa pechlo belo gelo (?). So this is our position. This position will not help us. We must admit our position that in the God's creation everything is inconceivable by us. We cannot calculate within our limitation. That is not possible.

*Therefore śāstra says, acintya khalu ye bhava. The same word in another way: na tas tarkyena yojayet. Things which are beyond your conception, don't try to understand it by your so*-called logic and argument. But one logic, one argument, if we are sincere, then we can accept even by logic and argument, that... That is also stated in śāstra, in Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*So we find mahad*-yoni, mahā-tattva, the material elements, is the mother. Everything is coming out of the womb of the mother. Whatever we see in this creation, the plants, the trees and living entities, and we are speaking especially of the living entities, and there are 8,400,000 different forms, they are coming from earth. That we can see. It doesn't require great intelligence. Any boy can understand that it is coming out of these five elements-means earth, water... The grass is coming out of earth, the fish is coming out of the water. So we have got experiences in two elements. But we have got experience also that living entities coming out of air. So earth, water, air... There are living entities in fire also, but because our knowledge is limited, we do not see. We cannot conceive that in the fire also there can be living entities. And why not? There are five elements, matter. So if earth is producing life, if water is producing life, if air is producing life, why not fire? What is the fault there? Everything is producing life. So the mother produces children. So many children are coming out of the... Tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma. Yoni, yoni means mother. So the children are there, the mother is there, and where is the father? A commonsense. Is there any mother can produce children without father? Is there any science can prove that a mother without connection with the father has produced child? No. If you say, "I cannot see the father," you do not see your fathers. There are many children nowadays who do not know who is father. But that does not mean there is no father. Common sense. There is father. Similarly, we see so many living entities produced by the mother, material nature-there must be father. And the father personally says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]-"I am the father." So why these rascals, they say that there is no God? There must be God, and He has got inconceivable potencies. Everything is being done by Him. If you say nature is doing, nature is a machine. Nature is not the doer. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10].



*So less intelligent, for them, it is inconceivable, but those who are intelligent, they take knowledge from the right source. Just like even though I do not know who is my father, but if I take information from my mother, then I can know. Mother says, "My dear child, he's your father." There's no question of research. You can immediately understand your father. Father must be there. But I do not know, that may be a problem, but when the mother says, "Here is your father," then where is the difficulty? So mother is the source of knowledge of the father. The Vedas, they are called mother. Veda*-mātā. These books, Vedic knowledge, this is the mother. From mother you can take information that there is father. And here is father. Who is father? Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda [Bs. 5.1]. And the father comes personally and He informs, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. Then where is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? But because we are rascals, will not believe mother, will not believe father. We, with our tiny brain, we shall make research and make things topsy-turvy and pass on as great scientist doctor. This is our position. Therefore śāstra says that "You rascals, do not waste your time in that way." Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet.

*So according to the Vedic system, the difference between atheist and theist is that the atheist means who do not believe in the version of the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not blind. Don't think wrongly. We are confident. We sometimes challenge big, big scientists. On what ground? Not whimsically, but on the ground of śāstra. So we may not please everyone, but we cannot go out of this scope. We know that in the moon planet, in the Mars planet and all other planets, Jupiter and others, there are living entities, there is a predominating deity in each and every planet. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. So if there is no living entity in the sun planet, how there is Vivasvān, the sun*-god or the predominating deity in the sun planet? So we cannot believe this version that there is no living entity in the sun, moon, or... There are living entity... Full of, janakīrṇa, this word is used. Congested. Just like here in this planet we are congested: so many living entities, different varieties. Similarly, the same congestion is there in all other planets. So do not try to poke your nose which is inconceivable. And that also not assertion. You say, "Perhaps," "Maybe," "Millions of years," "It might have been." All suggestion. So if you want knowledge, then you have to consult this Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, the source of knowledge. That is called Veda. And the ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That is the version.

What is the use of studying Vedas? To understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly... Of course, it is not possible thoroughly, but it is possible also. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything. So if you believe it, it is understanding thoroughly. If you believe that what Kṛṣṇa says is fact, then it is understanding thoroughly. If you don't believe, then it is not thoroughly. Because if you make research that "Kṛṣṇa says 'I am the origin of everything.' Let me make research," that will not be possible. Inconceivable. But if you believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, then you've studied thoroughly. Where is the difficulty? To study Him thoroughly does not require much education; *simply you believe Him. And if you believe Him... Actually, that is the fact. There must be... Just like the same example: there must be a father of all this creation. Mother nature is mother, and we are all creation, born of material nature. Then there must be father. And when the father says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4], "I am father," then if we believe this version, then thorough knowledge. Father, mother, children. That is family, creation. So yato ato brahmaṇas tās tu sargādyā bhāva-śaktayaḥ. So this creation is another. Just like children is creation of the semina of the father, similarly, the whole thing is creation of the Absolute Truth. And the example is given: bhavanti tapatāṁ śreṣṭha pāvakasya yathoṣṇatā. The fire, the fire must have heat, and by heat you can create so many things. In the Western countries, the electricity... What is electricity? It is heat. So heat, through electricity so many things are being created, through electric energy. The heat is created and the cool is also created. The refrigerator is going on by electric current, and heater is also going on. Two contradictory, but still, the energy is the same. Similarly, viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. It is, we have already described. Viṣṇu, Lord, the Supreme Lord, all-pervading, His energy is also spiritual. But when we cannot understand it, that is material. Otherwise, the energy, just like electricity. The electricity is working in the refrigerator*-it is cool. So therefore in the refrigerator there is no appreciation of the heat, although heat is there. But in the heater there is direct appreciation. But the energy is the same.

*So material means when we do not understand Kṛṣṇa, when we do not appreciate His creative energy or when we are in ignorance . That is called material life. So all these fools and rascals who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa's energy, they are all fools and rascals. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Therefore we have taken it very easily. Because we are not very advanced scientists, we take the words of Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he is within these groups. What are these groups? Duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means one has got merit, but the merit is utilized for sinful activities. You can use your merit two ways-for good purpose and for bad purpose also. Just like thieves and rogues, they have got merit. They know how to steal, how to cheat. It is not unintelligent. They are intelligent. But their intelligence, merit, is used for bad purposes. They are called duṣkṛtina. And mūḍha-purposefully they are trying to avoid. Every step they are being baffled, and still, they are trying to avoid the supreme controller. Therefore mūḍha. And narādhama, narādhama means the lowest of the mankind. In the animal life they could not understand Kṛṣṇa or God-that is not possible*-and they have got this human form of life... In this life one can understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are trying. That is possible. But if we do not take advantage of this human form of life to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, then you are lowest of the mankind. So na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ māyayāpahṛta-jñānā [Bg. 7.15]. And if we say that "There are so many doctors of philosophy, doctors of science, they are also hovering under this darkness, how is that? Then what about their education?" Yes, their education, certainly, but māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. The result of education, knowledge, that is taken away by māyā.



*Therefore we should not be washed away by these mūḍhas' conclusion, narādhamas' conclusion, māyayāpahṛta*-jñānās' conclusion. We should take up seriously the conclusion in the śāstra, conclusion given by Kṛṣṇa. Then our life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



661123CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.118-119

-

New York, November 23, 1966



Prabhupāda:



...uṭhāya, kabhu narake ḍubāya

*daṇḍya*-jane rājā yena nadīte cubāya



*So Lord Caitanya is explaining the position of the conditioned souls. They are completely under the grip of this material nature. And just like one is seated on the car and the driver drives him*-if the driver is not under control, he drives him anywhere, to any hell-similarly, we are sitting on this car of this body, supplied by the material nature, and she is driving anywhere, sometimes up, sometimes down. In this way we are suffering life after life, birth after birth. This is our condition. We are not independent; completely under the stringent laws of material nature.



*So daṇḍya*-jane rājā yena nadīte cubāya. The example is very nice, that a culprit is drowned in the water, again taken for some time to take breathing. He was suffocating. Nature... He's not meant to be killed, but he is to be given suffering in that way. So material nature is giving us suffering, miseries like that. Bhayaṁ dvitīya.

(bhayaṁ) dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād

īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ

*tan*-māyayāto budha ābhajet taṁ

*bhaktyaikayeśaṁ guru*-devatātmā



*Therefore Bhāgavata, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata, is giving direction, bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. When we are forgetful of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when we think that "There is no God. This matter is everything. This material manifestation which we see, that is everything all in all, and there is no Lord, no, I mean to say, supreme controller," when we think like that, that begins, that is the point of our anxiety, beginning of anxiety. Bhayam, fearfulness. We are all fearful because, as we have got these bodily necessities, we want to eat something, we want to sleep, similarly, we have fear, and we have demand for mating. These four principles are animal life. We are always fearful. And why we are fearful? Because we have taken it that there is no God. There is no God; *therefore we are fearful. Just like a forlorn child, when he thinks that "My... I am... My father and my mother, lost." You might have experienced. A child lost, he cries. He thinks himself, "I am helpless. Where is my mother? Where is my...?" Similarly, when we are helpless, we are fearful. And those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are not helpless. They know, "Above me, there is Kṛṣṇa." And śaraṇāgati, surrender, means to have firm conviction that "Kṛṣṇa will protect me. I am engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, so Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." If I work in some ordinary man's service, he gives me protection. Don't you think if you work for Kṛṣṇa, He'll not give you protection? Because we have no faith, therefore we are seeking protection from elsewhere. Kṛṣṇa is able. He says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: [Bg. 18.66] "I shall give you protection from all sinful reactions."



*But we have no faith. We are thinking, "Oh, it is written in the Bhagavad*-gītā. That's all right, but I must have my protection in a different way." So dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ. Because he thinks there is anything superior than Kṛṣṇa, therefore he is fearful. Why a conditioned soul is fearful, that is explained in the Bhāgavata. Bhayam dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. So this māyā, the illusion, when we take shelter of this illusion, then we are afraid. And when we understand that "Illusion, this energy, is under the control of Kṛṣṇa, because illusion, this material energy, is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, inferior energy. So even if I, I am within this material energy, when I am forgetful of Kṛṣṇa, this material energy is fearful for me, and when I am in Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully, there is no question of fearfulness from material nature." Therefore tan-māyayā ābhajet tam. Ābhajet tam. And therefore it is our duty to regain our lost consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the duty of this human form of life. Ābhajet tam bhaktyaika īśam. Simply by devotional... If you want to worship the Supreme Lord, then you have to worship Him simply by service. There is no other process. You cannot worship Kṛṣṇa by this controlling breathing or by mental speculation or by some pious activities or by charities. You have simply to worship Him simply by your devotional love. That is the only way. Bhaktyai, bhaktyaika, only one, bhakti. There is no other means. There is no second means to understand God without this devotional service. Rest assured. Foolish creatures, they take this, that. They do not understand. They come to the, that impersonal, void, all the nonsensical conclusions and... Because they do not take shelter of this, devotion, therefore they cannot have any conclusion. It is not possible. Therefore, more or less, they become atheists or after the voidness or impersonalism, and so many things there are. They create.

*But because Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, cannot be understood by any other process... It is simply waste of time. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, if you want to know God, then you have to take this process. That is a... Bhaktyaikayeśam, ābhajet tam bhaktyaikayeśaṁ guru*-devatātmā: "He is the Supreme Lord, He is the Supersoul, and He is the supreme spiritual master." In this way. He's the supreme spiritual master within you. As soon as you will take to devotional service, He'll give you dictation, "You do this." What dictation? To go to hell? No. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. In the Bhagavad-gītā: "I give him intelligence." Why? What for? Yena mām upayānti te: "By which he can come back to Me." That buddhi-yogam. He'll help you. If you think something... If He takes seriously about your case, if you are fully surrendered, then He'll direct you in such a way that you cannot go elsewhere except to Him, even sometimes you may find that "He is doing something against my will." I have got my personal experience. I never tried, never accepted that I shall become a sannyāsī. And I tried my best to keep myself in this material world. And He has, several times He has frustrated me and has brought me by force (to) this life. And now I am happy. I can understand that how much favor has Kṛṣṇa showed me. Yes. I did not understand in the beginning.

So sometimes, if Kṛṣṇa takes special care for you, He'll do in such a way that you will have no other way than to go back. He'll take charge, take charge. If we sincerely want Kṛṣṇa, if He sees that "Here is a person. He wants Me. But he's a foolish. He wants Me; *at the same time he wants to enjoy this material world. So crush this, crush this, his material propensities, and let him become simply devoted." Yes. Sometimes we see like that. In the, in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata there is a question by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, by Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Mahārāja Parīkṣit... Because he understood that his grandfathers were put to so many difficulties although Kṛṣṇa was their friend, personal friend. So everyone became astonished: "How is that? These five brothers, the big brothers... Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was the most pious man. Arjuna was the greatest warrior, and Draupadī, their wife, directly the goddess of fortune. And so much nice... And above all, Kṛṣṇa is their personal friend, and still, they were put into such difficulties. They lost their kingdom. They lost their wife. And they were put into so many... For thirteen years they had to undergo so many troubles." So this was astonishing. Even Bhīṣma, he cried that "I cannot understand why these five brothers are put into so many difficulties in spite of their, all these qualities."

*So their grandson, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, when he was being taught by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he had some suspicions about devotion to Kṛṣṇa. Not suspicion. Just to teach us, he inquired that "Lord Kṛṣṇa, He is Viṣṇu. He is the, I mean to say, master of the goddess of fortune. Why people who become Kṛṣṇa conscious or a devotee of Viṣṇu, they remain poorer, and others, those who worship Śiva and other demigods, they become very rich? What is the reason? He is the proprietor of everything. So one who wants Him, they become poorer. Whereas Lord Śiva, he hasn't got even a house of his own, he's a pauper, and one who worships him, he becomes richer." You know the history of Lord Śiva. He hasn't got a house even. He lives under the tree, or in some mountain. But one who worships Śiva, oh, they get material opulence very nicely. Therefore a person have become very easily... And they can smoke gañja. So all this captivates person to become a devotee of Śiva. Our Ginsberg is a devotee of Śiva. Perhaps you know. Anyone who wants this material prosperity, naturally they become the devotee of Śiva. So this is contradictory. "Śiva has no house even, not even a dwelling place, residence. He's a pauper. And worshiping him, one becomes richer. And Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is... Sahasra-śata*-sambhrama-sevyamānam: 'Always thousands of goddess of fortune is serving Him.' He's such opulent. And so Kṛṣṇa-bhaktas, devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they appear to be poorer. Why?" This question was... Just the opposite.

*So the answer was given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī that "This very question was also put to Kṛṣṇa by your grandfather. So instead of answering myself, I'll put that very question and answer between your grandfather and Kṛṣṇa." So what is that? "Now, a similar question was put by your grandfather Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa answered like this." What is that? Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad*-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ: [SB 10.88.8] "If I do somebody some special favor, then My first duty is I become him crushed in all material possessions." You see? Why? "Because to make him more surrendered to Me." When he becomes helpless, he has no other way. "Kṛṣṇa, please take me." When he has something, he thinks, "Oh, these things will protect me, my material possessions." Therefore he does not surrender. Now, Kṛṣṇa sees that "This man, this living entity, is very much devotee, but he wants something, this nonsense. So crush him so that when he'll feel helpless, he will come to Me. No more. So I'll give him all protection." So there is a policy of Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes He puts us into test, whether we are sincerely devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Because we are always after sense gratification, so if Kṛṣṇa is not a order-supplier, then one rejects Kṛṣṇa. We want God, or Kṛṣṇa, to be our order-supplier. So we must order Kṛṣṇa, "Give me this. Give me that. If You cannot give me, then what are You, Kṛṣṇa? I don't want You." This sort of bhakti, or devotional service, is not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.

*Just like Mr. Sulye(?), our Godbrother, German, he told me personally that during wartime many German women, some, they prayed into the church to get back their husband, son or brothers, because all went to war and nobody returned. And they become atheist: "Oh, there is no God. We prayed so much to God to get back my husband, to get back my brothers, but they are dead." But the brother was not returned and the husband was not returned. So result was... So if we pray, go to Kṛṣṇa with that purpose, that He should be our order*-supplier, then there is no question of Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. We must fully surrender, fully surrender: "Let Him do." Āśliṣya vā. That is taught by Śrī Caitanya: Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanāt [Cc. Antya 20.47]. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratā: "Either You embrace me or You trample me down on Your feet, neglect me, and You make me broken-hearted, and not being present before me all the life..." Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām marma-hatāṁ karotu vā. Marma-hatām means "If You make me broken-hearted... I love You so much. I want You, but You never care for me. That's all right. Still You are my worshipable, unconditionally. I don't want any return from You. Still You are my worshipable Deity(?)." This is pure devotion. Kṛṣṇa takes all care. Don't think... Because He says personally, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Why should you be so anxious? But one who is in love with Kṛṣṇa, he wants to see Him, he wants to love Him. But even He does not present Himself before the lover, the lover says, "Oh, still, You are my lovable object, worshipable... Whatever You can do... You are... You are free to treat me as, as You like, but You are my worshipable..." This is pure. So as soon as we come to this stage, that is perfection. That is perfection. Don't expect anything, return.

Now these Gosvāmīs, the Sanātana Gosvāmī... There is a nice story about Sanātana Gosvāmī, of whom we are now studying. Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, two brothers, they went to Vṛndāvana for devotional service. So their all business was... Rūpa Gosvāmī, especially, he was always engaged in writing books. And when he was hungry, he went to some householder: "Give me a piece of bread." And everyone at Vṛndāvana... They were leaders. All the Vṛndāvana inhabitants, they took... Even their household quarrels, they used to represent, "Swamijī, this is our position. Please settle up." So whatever decision he would give to the villagers, they will accept. Their court was Swamijī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. So he was so lovable. So one day Rūpa Gosvāmī was thinking that "If I could get some, I mean to say, commodities for cooking, then I would have invited Sanātana Gosvāmī to take some prasādam." He thought like that. And, and after, say, one hour, one young girl came with sufficient quantity of rice, flour, ghee, and vegetables, so many things: "Bābājī..." They were called... They call in the India, especially in Vṛndāvana quarters, they call all these transcendentalist swamis "Bābājī." "Bābājī, please accept these commodities. There is some ceremony at our house. So My mother has sent you all these things." "Oh, very good." He was thinking that "If I could get some commodity and I could prepare something and invite Sanātana Gosvāmī." So the things were there. So Rūpa Gosvāmī inquired, "Where do You live? Oh, You are very nice girl. Where do You live?" "Oh, I live in this village. You do not know?" "No, I have never seen You. All right. Thank You very much." Then She went away. And invited Sanātana Gosvāmī, "My dear brother, please come and take your prasādam here. I have got some food." "All right." So Sanātana Gosvāmī came during prasādam time, and Rūpa Gosvāmī has prepared so many nice dishes. They were also expert in cooking, expert. You know, all devotees, they are expert. That is his qualification. So then Sanātana Gosvāmī was inquiring, "Where did you get all these things, so nice things, you have prepared in this jungle? How did you get?" So he narrated the story, "Yes, in the morning I thought that 'If somebody sends me something...' So by Kṛṣṇa's grace, somebody, a nice girl, a very beautiful girl, and She brought all these things." "Who?" He began to state about the girl's beauty. Then Sanātana Gosvāmī said, "Oh, I have never seen such beautiful girl. How...?" "Yes, I have also never seen." "Ohhh. Then She must be Rādhārāṇī. She must be Rādhā. You have taken service from Rādhārāṇī? Ohhh. You have murdered me. We don't want to take any service from Kṛṣṇa, and He has taken the opportunity, sent us... We want to simply give our service, not any exchange. Oh, you have done a great mistake. Rādhārāṇī has taken this opportunity." So he began to cry that "We have taken service from Kṛṣṇa. We have given Her trouble." This is pure devotee. They were very sorry that "Kṛṣṇa was troubled to send me all these goods."

*So this is the process. Kṛṣṇa is also finding always opportunity, "How to serve My pure devotee?" And pure devotee's so clever that he won't accept any service from Kṛṣṇa. Just like the Arjuna, he never said, "Kṛṣṇa, You are God. Why You are putting me to war indirectly? You can give me everything." Kṛṣṇa said, "No." He never said that, Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa said, niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ: "You are kṣatriya. You have to fight." He never said. So we should not take God as order*-supplier. That is not devotion. That is mercantile business. Kṛṣṇa is not going to be a lover by mercantile mentality. You are, you must give Him service. Ābhajet tam. This is the process of devotion.

Thank you very much. (end)



661124CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.119-121

-

New York, November 24, 1966



Prabhupāda:



bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād

īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ

*tan*-māyayā ato budha ābhajet taṁ

*bhaktyaikayeśaṁ guru*-devatātmā



*Therefore it is advised that our fearfulness, "How I shall live? What I shall eat? Where I shall live? Where I'll, I'll have my shelter...?" We are always perplexed with all these fearfulness. Why? Because we have forgotten that there is one who is giving me all protection. We are, we have become so foolish that..., that the lower animals than the human being, they have no economic problem. They are freely living. In the morning they do not care where they shall eat. But there is eating. No animal, no bird, is dying of starvation. Have you seen any animal or any bird has died out of starvation? And who is providing him? So they have no economic problem. The only this foolish, advanced, civilized man, under the name of so*-called misusing the intelligence, which was given to him for realization of God, misusing for sense gratification, and therefore they are troubled. That is the whole problem. The world's problem is due to this forgetfulness. Īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. They have forgotten the protection of Kṛṣṇa, God. They think that "By this adjustment, we shall be able to protect." Nonsense. It is not possible. Can you protect yourself from death? No. Then what is your protection? So this is the formula: bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. Dvitīya means that a, a secondary existence beyond God which is, in Bible, it is said, Satan and God. So this satanic mentality has made them under the control of material nature. Satanic mentality. What is that satanic mentality? That "I want to be God." Always thinking falsely, "I am God," or "Independent," "I can do anything, everything," "Whatever I survey, I am the lord of whatever I survey." These foolish things are going on.



*So this is very nicely explained, and reference is given by Lord Caitanya that our whole difficulty, problems, anxiety... A similar verse is in Bhāgavata, another place, sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Asad-grahāt. Asat means nonpermanent, which will, we shall not exist. Due to our absorption in that sight, asat, this matter... Just like this body: it will not exist. So giving too much stress on the bodily concept of life, they are sadā samudvigna-dhiyā, they are always full of anxiety. This is the cause. The foolish people, they do not know. Still, they are very much proud of education. Here is the cause, that because we have given too much stress on this false conception of life, therefore we are always full of anxiety. And as soon as I understand that "I am pure spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. He is giving me all protection, and my duty is to love and serve Him," then I am free. At once I am free. The simple formula. How He'll give me...? He's not poor man. He's, He's... What you are? Your human, human being, they are very few. If you compare with other animals, other living entities, you are most insignificant number. Your number is very little, especially for the civilized. If you search out a hole in your room, you'll find millions of ants coming out. Even in your room you'll find. You'll be over-voted. So who is supplying their necessities? Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. In the Vedic language we can understand that one singular entity... God is also a living entity. He's not void. He's just like a person, like you and me. But He's so powerful. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. One single number, He is providing so many, innumerable living entities. So our business is... And the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: [Bg. 10.10] "I supply whatever he needs. Who is constantly engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I supply it. I take the goods personally and deliver there." Why should you be anxious? Kṛṣṇa will take hundred pounds of flours, hundred pounds of rice, and deliver you. Just be Kṛṣṇa conscious. In ordinary home you don't find more than five pounds. You see in our stock, all hundred pounds.

So these are facts. These are not stories. But foolish people, they have no knowledge or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All your material necessities will be... But don't be extravagant. Take only whatever you need to maintain your body and soul together and execute this... Make this primary and other things secondary. Kṛṣṇa will supply you. But if you want to make your sense gratification, if you want to accept more than what you need, then you'll be in trouble. That is māyā. So Kṛṣṇa has provided for everyone, everything. There is no need of being anxious. But that does not mean that I shall feel, "Oh, I shall do everything and anything." No.

So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, Lord Caitanya says,

*sādhu-śāstra*-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya,

sei jīva nistare, māyā tāhāre chāḍaya



*Now how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? A person who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no problem. Now how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Lord Caitanya says, sādhu-śāstra*-kṛpā: "One can become Kṛṣṇa conscious by the mercy of saintly devotees and by the mercy of the scriptures." These two things are recommended. Not that fools, as they are thinking, "I can..., I can think myself. I don't agree with the śāstra. I don't agree with the spiritual master. I don't agree with scriptures. I have got my independent opinion." He is fool number one, rascal number one. One who says like that, you'll at once take him that he's fool, rascal, anything. You have to take shelter of sādhu, guru and śāstra. Sādhu means saintly persons, those who have got all those qualities. (aside:) Where is that paper? Are you using that paper which has been supplied to you? Good qualification of devotees? What are those? Can you say, any of you? Where is that paper?



Disciple: It's on the inside of the drawer there.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, not with you? It is in the book. "Oh, my knowledge is in the book." No. You should learn. Everyone is missing. So how you can become saintly person? So those qualities, twenty*-six qualities, they are called saintly person. Devotee means to become fully qualified with all the noble qualities. Devotee does not mean a rascal, at the same time, a devotee. No. As soon as you become devotee, the test is that all those twenty-six qualities will develop. You have to test yourself, "Out of the twenty-six qualities, how much I have developed?" If I am lacking, then you must know that you are not developing. This is the test. What are the qualities? Paul, you have got the copy?



Paul: Yes.



Prabhupāda: What are the qualities?



Paul: "Kind to everyone."



Prabhupāda: Kind to everyone. Yes. Then, go on.



Paul: "Does not quarrel with anyone. Fixed up in the Absolute Truth."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Paul: "Equal to everyone."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Paul: "Spotless, faultless, charitable, mild, clean, simple, benevolent, peaceful, completely attached to Kṛṣṇa, no material hankerings, meek, steady, self*-controlled, does not eat more than required..."



Prabhupāda: Does not eat more than required. Yes.



Paul: "...sane, respectful, humble, grave, compassionate, friendly, poetic, expert..."



*Prabhupāda: Poetic, expert and silent. One who is too much talkative, that means he's lacking in devotion. He should simply talk about Kṛṣṇa, nothing more. And when he, when one is actually absorbed in Kṛṣṇa thought, he cannot talk nonsense. He has no time. He does not waste time. So these are the qualities. Here, he's called sādhu. Sādhu means these are the qualifications. Of course, not that we may develop all these qualities immediately, but sādhu means this. Sādhu means, what is called, pious man. These are the qualities of pious man, sādhu. And śāstra. Śāstra means the scripture. By study of scripture, you can develop these qualities. That is called scripture. That is authorized scripture. Just like you study some book, and you develop some quality after reading that book, similarly, when you actually have scripture, then you develop all these qualities. And guru, spiritual master, means who teaches you all these things. So you have to make your progress*-sādhu-śāstra-guru vākya. You have to corroborate whether guru, what guru is speaking, whether it is there in the scripture; what scripture is speaking, whether that is in the character of guru, or in the sādhu, saintly persons, or spiritual master. So you have to always make comparison with three things: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Nobody can become a spiritual master who has no reference to the scriptures and these qualities. Nobody can be accepted as a qualified man, he has not..., if one has not developed his character through the scripture under the instruction of guru.



*So sādhu-śāstra-guru. A sādhu, a guru... Here Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, sādhu-śāstra. That sādhu includes guru also, because a spiritual master, unless he's a sādhu, he cannot be a guru, cannot be a spiritual master. And the primary qualification of spiritual master*-that he is completely surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, completely Kṛṣṇa conscious person. These are the things. So Lord Caitanya said, sādhu-śāstra-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya. Now, the sādhu's qualification is he's merciful, friendly... So the sādhus, they take the risk of becoming friendly and merciful to the fallen, conditioned souls, and they preach the message of Godhead. Therefore their mercy is required. They are merciful, by nature. By nature, they are merciful. One who is sādhu, one who is devotee, by nature, he has developed that merciful quality, friendly quality. So their business is to enlighten those who are ignorant, those who are fully absorbed in this material concept of life. Therefore they preach. And we have to take that mercy. If we don't accept... Suppose a man is fallen in the pit and he's trying to come out, and another man drops a rope, "Please catch it. I shall take you out of the pit." He does not catch it. Then how he can be taken out? So sādhu and śāstra, they're always ready to give you mercy, but you have to take it. If you don't accept it, then how you can recover, recover? Therefore initiation means to accept the mercy of the sādhu and spiritual master. If you don't accept, so there is no other way. If you think... If you cry that "I am fallen in the pit. Please take me," and when somebody comes to help you, you say, "No, I'll not catch it," then you remain there. Who'll help you?

*So because I am a living entity, I try for so many things, for my daily bread, and I don't try to catch the mercy of sādhu and śāstra. Just see my foolishness. I, for getting a work, I flatter so many persons and put my, serving my application, but for my deliverance from the material bondage I don't care. "No, I am not going to submit to anyone. I don't require." Just see. How much foolishness there is. Just like a dog, for his bread he'll submit everyone, but for his spiritual emancipation, oh, he's not agreeing to submit. Just see the foolishness. For bread, which is already settled by the nature, he'll submit to everyone. Just like dog goes from door to door and moves its tail that "Give me a bread. Give me a bread." Yes. So this application is a doggish... In the Bhāgavata it is stated that the, the brāhmaṇa, a kṣatriya, if he's poverty*-stricken, he may accept something mercantile, but don't be a dog. This modern civilization is teaching people to become dog. Go door to door! [break] ...the saintly person, the representative of Kṛṣṇa, they are always trying to distribute this mercy. So if somebody by his fortune accepts this mercy then he can become, mean, aloof from these material troubles.

*So one has to accept. Sādhu-śāstra*-kṛpāya. They are always merciful. But one has to accept them and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sādhu-śāstra-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya. And as soon as he agrees to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then his path becomes clear. He'll get rid of these material clutches and this always full life full of anxiety and problems, he'll kick. These things, sādhu, śāstra, saintly person and scripture, they have to be accepted. If you don't accept them, then there is no other way. Why there is no other way? Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī [Bg. 7.14]. He's citing again from Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is the book of evidence. Lord Caitanya is citing. Because it is Vedic. Just like in the law court you have to cite section from the law book, not from your concocted mind. No foolish man can argue in the law court, because he has to refer in every step from the law book. Sādhu means that he has to give evidence from the scriptures. Not that "I think... In my opinion you can do this." He's not a sādhu; *he's a fool. What is your opinion? You are a conditioned soul. Can you manufacture something? No. You cannot manufacture anything. You have to give reference from authorized scripture. So Lord Caitanya is giving evidence from Bhagavad*-gītā: daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī [Bg. 7.14]. Why you cannot yourself get out of these material clutches? The reason is this: daivī hy eṣā. It is, material clutches is so powerful. You cannot get out. It is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā. "This material nature, which is My energy," Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "it is very strong, very strong." In the history you'll never find that anybody has overcome the laws of material nature by his own effort. No. It is not possible. Therefore the modern scientific world who are trying to conquer over the laws of material nature by their teeny scientific arrangement, they are all fools. It is not possible. Not possible. If you try for something which is not possible, then you'll simply go on, wasting your time. That is a different thing. But if you accept the scriptures, the truth, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā-daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā: [Bg. 7.14] "This material nature, which is one of My energy, it is very difficult to get out of it"-then he'll be a sane man who: "Then why I am trying foolishly? In this way, that I can make adjustment in this material world for comfortable life? No. It is not possible." Then what is the remedy? The remedy's there. What is that? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] "As soon as one surrenders unto Me, he becomes out of these clutches." This is the process.

*So this information... We are holding this class from Bhagavad*-gītā, from Caitanya-caritāmṛta and scripture just to... With reference to the śāstra, scripture. And we are trying to follow. We are not creating anything. It is not a manufactured thing, concocted thing. It is standard, followed by great ācāryas like Caitanya. So we have to accept. That is the way. We have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and follow, as the śāstra says. Sometimes, as we... The law books are there. As we take help of a lawyer, how to utilize the law book, similarly you have to utilize the scriptures by accepting a spiritual master who can guide you. He's a lawyer. These are the process. If you don't accept, then go on suffering. If you accept, then everything is there. That is the way of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)



751112CC.BOM

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.120

-

Bombay, November 12, 1975



*Prabhupāda: So in our last meeting we were discussing about the constitutional position of the living entity. Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa*-traya. This is the first question. Arjuna also, when he became perplexed whether he should fight or not, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and accepted Him as his spiritual master. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "Actually I am deviating from my duty, so I am perplexed. What to do? Therefore I know..." Arjuna knew it perfectly well that Kṛṣṇa, although He is friend, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That was known to Arjuna. All the Pāṇḍava family members, they knew. Kurus also, they knew. Otherwise how it was possible to deal with Kṛṣṇa as family member? Kṛṣṇa was... In His human form of life He was related with the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas by family relationship. Kṛṣṇa's father's sister, Kuntī, was the mother of the Pāṇḍavas, and Kuntī was the family daughter-in-law in the Kurus' family. So they were very intimately related. Duryodhana's daughter was married with Kṛṣṇa's son. So these two families, they were very intimately related. But they knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You'll read in Kuntī's stotra. She was praying to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although Kṛṣṇa was offering His obeisances to the aunt, Kuntī. Similarly, Nārada Muni also, when he entered the royal assembly of Kṛṣṇa in Dvārakā, Kṛṣṇa received him by standing from His throne and taking the dust of his feet, although Nārada knows that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, whenever he used to meet Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, He was giving His respect by touching his feet, and Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira embracing Him as younger brother. But they knew, all, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



So we can also have Kṛṣṇa like that. That is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, that... You are thinking of God as nirākāra, without any form: "He cannot be touched. He cannot be embraced. He cannot be talked." No. Kṛṣṇa, personally being present, He was talking with His devotees, dealing just like ordinary human being. But the devotees knew Him, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Only the nondevotees... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Those who are nondevotees, still now... Just like we are worshiping here Kṛṣṇa in this temple. The others, nondevotees, rascals, they will think that "These fools are worshiping a stone statue." They will think like that. They are very learned scholar, so they think that "These are fools. They have accepted a stone statue. Everyone knows that here Kṛṣṇa is made of stone, so why these fools are spending so much money, lakhs and crores, for having a temple for this stone statue? This is their foolishness." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11].

*So people are unaware of Kṛṣṇa and His position. Therefore one should go to the guru*-tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]-eva, "must," in order to learn Kṛṣṇa. That is... The example is being shown by Sanātana Gosvāmī, the minister. He is not ordinary man. He is trying to know from guru what is his actual position. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew Sanātana Gosvāmī, intelligent, advanced. So he doesn't require to be educated by teaching Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD of spiritual life, preliminary study. Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for persons who are advanced. They know Kṛṣṇa. One who does not know Kṛṣṇa, for them, first reading book is Bhagavad-gītā, so that he can know what is Kṛṣṇa. But here Sanātana Gosvāmī is advanced; *therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching him from the point where Bhagavad*-gītā was ended. That Bhagavad-gītā ended... Kṛṣṇa, after teaching Arjuna different kinds of knowledge-karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, so many, bhakti-yoga-ultimately He said, "Arjuna, because you are My very confidential friend, so I am giving you the confidential knowledge." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You surrender unto Me, and whatever I say, you do. That is your duty." So from that point, when one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa... Why one should surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is puffed up that "I am as good as Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa?" Many, many scholars, they comment on this verse, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ. Vraja, "Why? This is sophistry. Everyone should give up everything, simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa?" Still they say that "Why you are after Kṛṣṇa? Why not other gods or demigods?" That is their... Sometimes they question. But one who knows Kṛṣṇa, he cannot be deviated from this path, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Bhagavān means Kṛṣṇa.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



This is understanding.



*So our relationship with Kṛṣṇa... Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ke āmi, "What I am? What is my position? Why I am put into this miserable condition of material existence?" This should be the inquiry. Simply they are trying to mitigate the material distresses, but nobody inquires that "Why I am put into this condition?" That is real intelligence. When the disease is there, you go to the doctor, take medicine, try to become cured from the disease. But nobody inquires that "Why I am subjected to this disease?" That is intelligence. "Precaution is better than cure." If you know how to protect yourself from disease, then that is better position than to become diseased and cured. That is not very good intelligence. Rather, don't be diseased, not that you become diseased repeatedly and go to the medical man and be cured. Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. They have been described as chewing the chewed again and again. So actually our problem is that we are diseased at the present moment, every one of us. What is that disease? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. This is our disease: we are forced to die, we are forced to take birth, we are forced to become old and we are forced to become diseased. This is our problem, but nobody inquires about this. When there is death forced upon us, they simply cry, "Oh, my father is gone. My father is gone." When we are diseased, then we cry. But nobody inquires that "Why I am put into this condition?" That is intelligence. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's disciple Sanātana Gosvāmī is inquiring that, that "What I am? Why I am put into these difficulties?" This is intelligent question. One should go to the spiritual master, guru, for answering or making solution of these problems, not for getting some material profit, that "I have got some disease," and the guru says, "All right, you take this dust and you become cured." "I am poor," "All right, I am creating some gold for you. Take it." This is not relationship with guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One should go to guru for making the ultimate solution of life, not temporary. That is not relationship with guru and...

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu directly says that jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya*-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108], two words. Svarūpa. Svarūpa means original, constitutional position. That is svarūpa. Mukti means just like one is diseased, and there are many symptoms of disease. So when one becomes free from the disease, the symptoms disappear. Similarly, mukti means that we have lost our original constitutional position. Because here Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that the real position of the living entity is that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. So our position is servant, subordinate position. That is the Vedic injunction also. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the supreme leader, supreme maintainer of everyone. That is our position. We are maintained, and Kṛṣṇa is maintainer. We are predominated, and Kṛṣṇa is predominator. This is our relation. How(?) Caitanya Mahāprabhu describing the constitutional position of the living entity, svarūpa. Svarūpa means original position, and mukti means svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. This is the Vedic injunction. Mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpa. Now we are acting differently. Actually our position is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Now, at the present moment, every one of us, we are trying to become master. If not master of Kṛṣṇa, at least we are trying to become equal with Kṛṣṇa. This is our position. That is called māyā, "which is not possible." God is not so cheap that you can become equal with God or greater than God. You must always remain subordinate to God. That is your position. Actually we are subordinate. We have no meeting with God. We have no knowledge of God. But practically we see that we are subordinate to the material nature. That's a fact. Everyone knows. Who can overcome the laws of material nature? No. Nobody can do. By nature you have to die. You cannot avoid it. You are subordinate. By nature you have to become old man. You cannot avoid it. So we know that we are subordinate to material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. All these living entities-man or not man, animal or trees or plants, everyone-everyone is under the laws of material nature. They are, of course, dumb, the other animals or living entities. But human being has got advanced senses. He can think advancedly. So why they are thinking that they are free? They are servant of at least material nature at the present moment. Why they are thinking "master"? That is their misconception. This is called anyathā rūpam. He is actually servant, but he's thinking "master." This is called anyathā rūpam. Anyathā means "otherwise," not svarūpam. So therefore mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpam, giving up this nonsense speculation that "I am master of nature. I am master of this, master of that," or "I am God. I am equal to God." These are all rascaldom, anyathā rūpam, thinking otherwise.

So when one gives up this rascaldom that "I am God. I am equal to God. I am nobody's servant. I am free..." So these are anyathā rūpam. Hitvā anyathā rūpam svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. When one is situated in his original constitutional position, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean that you get a big head or big hand. No. Mukti means knowledge. Knowledge. This is our actual knowledge, that "I am not master; I am servant." This is knowledge. So mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpam. Everyone is thinking otherwise. Somebody is thinking "I am equal to God. I am God," or "I am master," or "I am trying to become master of nature." The scientists, they are always thinking like that, that "We want to control the material nature so that we can manufacture living entity according to our plan, according to our order." Everyone. This is called baddha jīva, conditioned soul. But mukti means... This is mukti. That means... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is immediately, by one word, giving you mukti. They are trying so much, undergoing austerities, penances, going to the Himalaya, making mystical..., so many things for mukti. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu? That mukti He's given directly: "Take this mukti." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. "You simply try to understand your position, that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." And as soon as you accept this position, you are mukti.

*So mukti is not difficult for a devotee. Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura has said, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: "Oh, mukti? She is standing at my door with folded hands: 'What can I do for you?' " So the bhaktas, they do not care for mukti. They are already mukta. There is no need of separate endeavor for mukti. You simply accept this truth, that you are servant of Kṛṣṇa*-immediately you are mukta, immediately. It doesn't require... It requires only one second to become mukta. It doesn't require... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bha...,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



*This is mukti. "You surrender unto Me, and immediately I save you." Sarva*-pāpebhyo... Because we become entangled by our sinful activities... There are all sinful activities, that "I am independent. I can do whatever I like. I am as good as God. I am God," or "I am God. Where is the difference for me? I can do anything. There is no question of sinful activities." Some of the big, big swamis, they lecture like that, that "Why you are thinking of sinful activities? You are God. There is no sin for you." They are preaching like that, that "You have no sin." And it is very easy to think. That is māyā. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Therefore these sinful persons who are thinking like that, that "I am God. I have no sinful activities. I am independent. I can do whatever I like," they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as duṣkṛtina, duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15].



*So by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu one can learn how to become liberated in one second, one second. It doesn't require many births. Of course, to come to this position, as Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19], after many, many births, that is very difficult job. We do not know. Suppose in this life I am living for hundred years or fifty years or ninety years. Then again another eighty years, ninety years, another hundred, four, five hundred years, or five thousand years... Because according to the body... The trees are standing for hundreds of years, five thousand years. So bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19] is not very easy thing. It may be millions of years. So after millions of years, if one actually becomes wise, jñānavān, he understands this simple truth, that jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa, this simple truth, that every living entity is eternally the servant of Kṛṣṇa. If he understands this, then he becomes immediately liberated. But intelligent man, he takes things very intelligently: "Caitanya Mahāprabhu said jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], then why I am falsely thinking that 'I am God. I am not dependent on anyone,' this, that? Let me accept this." Then you become mukta immediately. Simply acceptance how Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66], he becomes immediately mukta. Then actually, when he is mukta, then there is life in mukta. Mukta does not mean finished life. Just like if you become free from a certain type of disease. So after being cured there is duty. There is duty. Not that after being cured, the diseased also cured, and you are also cured. You are also finished. No. After the disease being cured, there is healthy activities. That is required.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So Brahman activities means bhakti, Brahman activities. So these devotees who are engaged in devotional service of Kṛṣṇa twenty*-four hours, they are not only realized soul, brahmaṇubhūti, but they are muktas and they are engaged in Brahman activities. Brahman activities. That is bhakti. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. Therefore devotee has no distinction between this man or that man. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. A devotee does not distinguish that "Here is American, there is Indian, and here is cat, here is dog." No. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. A devotee knows that every one of them, all these living entities in different forms... It is not difficult to understand. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavāmi mūrtayo yaḥ, tāsāṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā aham [Bg. 14.4]. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father. So a devotee knows that the dog is also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, living entity, but he is in a different dress, dog's dress, and a learned paṇḍita, he is also the same spirit soul, but he is dressed as a learned scholar. Similarly,



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*That is oneness, one who can see. Even from material point of view, a paṇḍita, a learned man knows that "What is this material form, your body or my body?" Superficially it may look black, white or colored, but if you chemically analyze*-the same ingredients: the same blood, the same muscle, the same stool, the same urine. When doctor examines the urine and stool, they do not examine differently a black man's urine and a white man's urine different, because they know the chemical composition is the same. So from material point of view you are also one. Even though you have got this material body, differently formed, the ingredients are the same: kṣitir ap tejo marud vyoma, mind, intelligence. Everyone has got these things. This body, gross body, is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether, and the mind. Don't think that dog has no mind. Everyone has got mind. Everyone has intelligence. A dog know(s) intelligently how to secure his food, as we know. There is no scarcity of these things, material things, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4].



*So a paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18], means even materially all these living entities, although in different forms of body, the ingredients are the same. Sama-darśinaḥ. And spiritually, if living entity is spiritual spark, the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, that is all the same. You are also spark of the supreme spirit; *I am also the spark supreme spirit, every one of us. So therefore they can see equally everyone. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When one comes to this position, then mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. That means bhakti begins when one is mukta. Mukti has already been attained. Bhakti begins. So unless you accept Kṛṣṇa as your eternal master, how you can engage yourself in His service? So bhakti means mukti.

māṁ ca (yo) 'vyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*So here Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is giving mukti immediately. People are undergoing severe austerities, penances, but if you simply understand your position, what you are, that is mukti. So here Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving the intelligence immediately to Sanātana Gosvāmī that jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. Simply you have to accept, and surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also says the same thing, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], the same thing. Nitya dāsa. Unless you accept yourself as servant of Kṛṣṇa, how you can agree that "Yes, I surrender to You"? Surrender is made to somebody who is superior, not to the equal person. So Kṛṣṇa demanding that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], that means that we are servant. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can order that? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving mukti immediately teaching the same thing-jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa. And Kṛṣṇa also says that this understanding, that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa," is realized after many, many births.



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*So mahātmā, su*-durlabha mahātmā, means who is liberated, not trying for liberation. There are two kinds of mahātmās. One mahātmā is trying for liberation, mukti, and the su-durlabha means... Those who are trying for mukti, out of millions of such persons, one becomes mukta. That is the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Out of millions of karmīs, one becomes jñānī. And out of millions of jñānī, one becomes mukta. And out of millions of mukta, one becomes bhakta. This is the description given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



So if we accept this philosophy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, without falsely declaring ourself that "I am equal to God" or "I am God," if you simply accept that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], that we are eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa, and act like that... The servant of Kṛṣṇa means he must be always engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. This is called bhakti.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*This is our position. And if we understand that all of us, we are servant of Kṛṣṇa-you are servant of Kṛṣṇa, I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, he is servant of Kṛṣṇa-then we can understand our position is one. That is oneness*-we are all servants. So there is no question of becoming envious of you or your becoming envious of me. We are all servants of God. So we have to execute the orders of God. That is servant's business. So "How I shall execute? Where is God? I surrender to God. That's all right. So let Him speak to me." Yes, He'll speak to you. How? Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: [Bg. 15.15] "I am situated in everyone's hearts as Paramātmā, and I give everyone intelligence how to do things." And especially for the bhakta, the instruction of Kṛṣṇa or Paramātmā is there:



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*This is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is situated within your heart, Paramātmā, in His Paramātmā feature. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So the feature by which Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, that is... Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61].



*So yogis, they find out Kṛṣṇa. Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yogis try to find out the Paramātmā, and the jñānīs, they are trying to find out the brahmajyoti, and similarly, the bhakta is trying to find out Kṛṣṇa. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. So in this way Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the ultimate goal. But those who are addicted to Brahman or Paramātmā, they are also addicted to Bhagavān, but in different features. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. Knowledge of Brahman, knowledge of Paramātmā and knowledge of Kṛṣṇa is the same, but in different features. Just like knowledge of the sun planet, knowledge of the sun god and knowledge of the sunshine, they... Knowledge is the same-heat and light-but the heat and light which you receive from sunshine is different from the heat and light from the sun globe, and the heat and light in the sun globe is different from the sun-god. But heat and light is there, either you realize Brahman, Paramātmā or Bhagavān. So a devotee means he is concerned with Bhagavān. That's all. So devotee is also mahātmā; those who are jñānīs, after Brahman, they are also mahātmā; and the yogis, they are also mahātmā; *but one who has understood Kṛṣṇa perfectly and surrendered to Him-vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]*-that mahātmā is very rare to be found.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching how to become that mahātmā, su-durlabhaḥ. Koṭiṣv apy mahāmune. Muktānām api sahasrāṇām. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is so sublime and very easy also. We should take it up-this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement-and execute it as it is enjoined in the śāstras and following the footsteps of mahājana. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That is also described in the śāstra. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ [SB 6.3.20]. And... Dvādaśa mahājana. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ, and prahlādo janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakir vayam. Everything is there in the śāstra. So to become actually devotee we have to follow these mahājana. Svayambhūḥ is Brahmā, and... Svayambhūr... Nārada Muni, and Śambhu, Lord Śiva. They have got their parties, or their paramparā system-Brahmā-sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya Śrī-sampradāya, and Kumāra-sampradāya. In this way we have to accept the sampradāya and follow. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Then we become pure devotee. And as soon as we understand pure..., we become pure devotee, we can understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Although Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, but He says that "If one wants to understand Me properly, then bhaktyā." He does not say that "By jñāna" or "By yoga." No. Why He says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]? The bhakta... His name is bhakta-vatsala. Because jñānī will take some time to understand. Yogis also will take some time. They'll come to that point if they make actually progress. Bhakta can take immediately. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Therefore, when Rūpa Gosvāmī met Him at Prayag, he offered his prayers to Caitanya Mahāprabhu as mahā-vadānyāya: "You are the most munificent incarnation," namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53], "because You are distributing kṛṣṇa-prema. One cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, but You are so munificent that You are giving kṛṣṇa-prema." Just like prema means love. If you do not understand a person properly, how you can love him? That is not possible. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's process is so nice that even we are neophyte*-we do not understand Kṛṣṇa-but if we follow His process, we immediately come to the platform of how to love Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te.

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



So this Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching Sanātana Gosvāmī about bhakti-śāstra. He taught him for two months at Benares, Vārāṇasi, and He... Later on, these six Gosvāmīs preached Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult, which we are preaching at the present moment, according to the prediction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu,



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe more nāma



That is His prediction, that as many towns and cities are there on the face of the globe, everywhere His name will be advertised or everyone will know His name. So by His grace this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on all over the world and everyone is receiving very nicely, either in Europe or America or Africa or Canada or Australia. So we are very much hopeful. And those who are foreigners present here, take this movement very seriously and preach it all over the world. People will be happy.



Thank you very much. (end)



661125CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.121-124

-

New York, November 25, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that this is the condition, suffering condition of the living entities, and he can be rescued by the mercy of sādhu, saintly persons, the scriptures and the spiritual master. They are prepared to bestow their mercy upon everyone, provided people like to take their instruction and mercy. That is the solution. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā the same thing is confirmed in the Seventh Chapter: daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. The influx of the disturbances created by this material nature under different forms is very stringent. So anyone who wants to be rescued from these miseries, he should surrender unto the Supreme Lord. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.



This māyā has got two kinds of influence: prakṣepātmikā, āvaraṇātmikā. Āvaraṇātmikā means we are already covered by the illusion. Although we are suffering in every step, we are thinking that we are happy. Just, just the day before yesterday the lady, she said, "Oh, the temperature was so high that I could not tolerate it. I could not..." The next moment she said, "Oh, I don't feeling any, any unhappiness." This is called prakṣepātmikā. First things is that I am so much illusioned that I... Just like the animals. They are suffering so much, but they have no knowledge that they are suffering. But human beings, who are above them, they can understand that what sort of suffering there is. A animal, he's, he's being taken to the slaughterhouse, but it does not know due to ignorance. This is called āvaraṇātmikā, covering influence of the material nature. And there is another influence. Suppose one is trying to come out of the covering. Prakṣepātmikā. It throws: "Oh, why you are trying for this? You are very happy. Why do you think, why you are so much pessimistic of this life? Just work hard and enjoy life. That's all."

*So these things are going on. Actually, we are suffering and we are in dangerous position step by step. But by the influence of this material, external energy, we are covered, illusioned. We are thinking, "Yes, I am very happy." And if somebody tries to come out of it, then he is also advised by the material nature, "Oh, why you are doing all this nonsense? You are very happy." Yavaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. The atheistic theory... The atheist... Nowadays there are atheists, not that... Atheist class of men there are always. Maybe number of the atheists are now greater than before, but there was a great atheist in India. There are six kinds of philosophical theses. Out of those, atheism is one of them. So that atheism... Cārvāka Muni. He was, Cārvāka, the leader of the atheists. His theory was that ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Just beg, borrow or steal. You must eat butter. Never mind." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet, yāvan jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet: "So long you shall live, you must live very comfortably." Then one may say, "Oh, beg, borrow, steal, and who'll suffer the sins? If I borrow, if I cannot pay? If I commit sins? If I commit burglary? Oh." The Cāṇakya, the Cārvāka Muni replied, bhasmī*-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "Well, when your body will be burnt into ashes, who is coming here and who is going to be responsible? Don't think all these." So this is atheistic theory. They don't believe that there is transmigration of the soul. He has to take another body and he has to take body according to his work, and there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies, and human body is the most benefactory. So they do not know all these things. So this is called āvaraṇātmikā, covering influence.

So covering influence and throwing influence. Out of these two influences, one can come out if he agrees to surrender unto the Supreme Lord. Otherwise there is no other way. He'll be, he'll be always covered or be thrown again.

*daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, "Anyone who surrenders unto Me fully, he, he alone can get rid of these two kinds of influence of māyā. Others cannot."



*māyā*-mugdha jīvera nāhi svataḥ kṛṣṇa-jñāna

*jīvere kṛpāya kailā kṛṣṇa veda*-purāṇa



*These, I mean to say, illusioned, māyā*-mugdha, illusioned living entities, they have forgotten. They have forgotten their relationship with the Supreme Lord. Mostly: "Oh, what is God?" Somebody says, "God is dead." So these things are going on. Not now. Now the number has increased. It is always. So long the world is there, the material world is there, this sort of thing is going on. So māyā-mugdha, illusioned by this external energy, they have no memory that how they are connected with the Supreme Lord. They have no memory. They have forgotten. That there is something like God, altogether they have forgotten by the illusion. Yes. Māyā-mugdha jīvera nāhi kṛṣṇa smṛti-jñāna. And just to revive their memory, Kṛṣṇa... Jīvere kṛpāya kaila kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa. Veda-purāṇa. Veda means the Vedic literatures. Veda, real literal meaning is veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. There is a Sanskrit root, vid-dhātu. From that vid-dhātu, veda. Veda means knowledge. And Purāṇa, Purāṇa means supplementary, Vedic instruction described in story form. That is called Purāṇa, story. This Bhāgavata is also one of the Mahā-purāṇa. Mahā-purāṇa means the science of Kṛṣṇa is described in story form. This is called Purāṇa. People better understands in stories, in history.



*So Lord Caitanya says, "Because people in general, by the influence of the illusory energy, they have forgotten their eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord, therefore the Lord Himself, as Kṛṣṇa*-dvaipāyana Vyāsa..." Kṛṣṇa-dvaipāyana Vyāsa is considered to be a powerful incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Unless he was a, he was an incarnation, it was not possible to write so many books. There are eighteen Purāṇas and four Vedas and 108 Upaniṣads, and Vedānta, then Mahābhārata, then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Each of them contains thousands and thousands and millions of verses. So we cannot imagine that a man can write in that way. You see. So Veda-vyāsa is considered to be incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, and he was very powerful in writing. In the Mahābhārata itself is so many, so big book. And there are... Each Purāṇa contains thousands and thousands of verses. So these are his gifts. So Kṛṣṇa, means Kṛṣṇa-dvaipāyana Vyāsa, he... Because sādhu, sādhu, those who are saintly persons, they're always thinking of the miseries of the people in general. They are not meditating for their own purpose. They are writing books. They are thinking how to establish them in such a way so that they can properly utilize the human form of life. That is their business, sādhu. Sādhu means that they are always compassionate with the sufferings of the people in general. That is sādhu. Because they are devotees. The Lord comes... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Whenever there is... The nature's law is so stringent that if you violate a little, then you have to suffer. There is no mercy. There is no mercy. So as you go on violating the laws of nature, the nature law is so made that the nature is giving you chance to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the whole program. And as soon as you deviate from that law, then you are put into trouble. So we are passing in that way.

*So the sādhu and the pious and the devotees of the Lord, out of their compassion, they write books what they have heard in the disciplic succession. They do not manufacture. These Vedas, what is written by Vyāsadeva, you don't think that he has manufactured something. No. Formerly the Vedic knowledge was simply spoken by the spiritual master, and the disciple simply heard it. Therefore the Veda is known as śruti. There was no need of books. They were so, I mean to say, their memory was so sharp that once heard, they can remember, they could remember. The life was so nice that... In the advancement of Kali*-yuga, as I have several times described, that this memory will be decreased. People will be less, less memorious, memory... Their memory will be very shortened. They'll forget. Just like the lady was angry(?). At once forgets. One moment she says that "Oh, it was terrible heat," and next moment says, "Oh, I don't feel any unhappiness." That is forgetfulness. So memory will be so short that people will forget. Just like the animals. They forget. There is no memory. In some of the animals there is no mind. That is also analyzed in the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So memory shortened, shortened. So just to give us remembrance again, the books are... Vyāsadeva, he wrote those Vedic traditions into books. Vyāsadeva is the first man who wrote this Vedic knowledge into writing. Before that, there was no writing. Only by hearing, by memory, the students will grasp the whole thing and coming down, tradition, tradition. Yes. Śruti, by hearing.

*So jīvere kṛpāya kaila kṛṣṇa veda*-purāṇa.

*'sādhu*-guru-ātma'-rūpe āpanāre jānāna

*'kṛṣṇa mora prabhu, trātā'*-jīvera haya jñāna



*So what is the utility of this Vedic knowledge? Now, by understanding, by hearing from authorized sources, or by reading from authorized sources, the forgetful living entities will come to his senses. That is the purpose. He will come to his sense: "Oh, my position is this, and I am suffering in this way." So śāstra*-guru-ātma-rūpe āpanāre jānāna. So Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, is always anxious to revive the memory of these forgotten souls, conditioned souls. Now, how He revives? He revives in śāstra. Śāstra means scripture. Śāstra, guru, spiritual master. Śāstra, guru, ātma-rūpe. And sometimes He comes Himself or as Paramātmā, or the Supersoul. He is giving you instruction from within as Paramātmā, He's sending you suitable spiritual master so can, you can have instruction without, and the books are, the scriptures are there. So many facilities the Lord has created. And therefore the human form of life is meant for utilizing all these facilities. In the animal form of life there is no facility. They cannot read śāstra. They cannot understand scripture. They cannot take the advantage of a bona fide spiritual master. They cannot consult within with God. They have no this capacity. Their consciousness is so undeveloped that it is not possible to have, utilize all these facilities. But in human form of life we can utilize all these facilities. The śāstras are there, the Vedas are there, scriptures are there. And still, although it is the age of Kali, still, those who are following the disciplic succession, there is bona fide spiritual master also. Śāstra, guru and ātmā. And over all, the Paramātmā. The Paramātmā, the Supersoul, Kṛṣṇa as Supersoul, is sitting within your heart along with you. And as soon as, by the instruction of the scripture and direction of the spiritual master, you begin sincerely something, the Paramātmā, from within you, He'll speak, "Yes, now you are right." He'll speak to you.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is clearly:

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām. Those... The spiritual master's duty is to lead a person, a forgotten soul, to the right way in terms of the śāstra and scripture, and when he begins sincerely and with love and seriously, then the next stage is that God within, who is sitting within you, He'll dictate, "Yes, you do like this. You do like this." So in every respect the Lord is trying to help us. But we are so much stubborn, we don't like to take advantage of this position. Oh, he says, "Why shall I take all this? I am very happy." There is a story in the Bhāgavata that once Indra, the king of heaven, he was condemned by his spiritual master, Bṛhaspati, that "You are so foolish. You should have become a hog." So he became a hog. So after some days, when the throne of the heavenly kingdom was vacant, Brahmā went to reclaim this hog, Indra, that "Come to your place." So when the hog was requested that "You are Indra. Why you are suffering? Now you come. I have come to take you," so the hog says, "Oh! I do not know what I am, Indra. I have got my responsibility. I cannot leave this place." Just see. Even the hog-you can just imagine what is the standard of his living*-he thinks also that "I am very happy. I am very happy." The stool-eating and this nasty place, and "Oh, I have got a very comfortable life." So this is the, I mean to say, prakṣepātmikā.



So the sādhu-śāstra, the God Himself comes, He sends His confidential servant, He sends His son to reclaim us, and we should take advantage of these facilities and make our life successful. That should be the aim of human life.

Thank you very much. (pause) Oh, no, there is time.

veda-śāstra kahe-'sambandha', 'abhidheya', 'prayojana',

*'kṛṣṇa'*-prāpya sambandha, 'bhakti'-prāptyera sādhana



Now, what is the subject matter of these Vedic scriptures? That is summarily summarized, summarized by Lord Caitanya. Veda-śāstra kahe-'sambandha', 'abhidheya', 'prayojana'. There are three things in the Vedic scriptures. What is that? The first thing is: "What is my relationship with God?" Or: "What is my relationship with this world?" Or: "What is my relationship with this nature?" These three is described. Then, as soon as you understand your relationship, then your action begins according to... Just like two businessmen, two. They want to do some business. They wanted to do... Mutually, they want to do some business. And what is the aim of business? To make some profit. Both of them are interested in making some profit. Without profit, there is no question of business. So first, if the profit is aim, then the two business first come to a contract, or agreement. This is called sambandha, relationship. "Yes, you are supplier; I am purchaser. And you shall supply in this way, and I shall purchase in this way." Agreement. This is called relationship. And after the sign of the agreement, when actually the activities begin, supply and purchase, that is called abhidheya. And abhidheya means why they are doing this business? Now, some profit. So the profit there must be. Otherwise nobody's interested. Same thing is there also in the Vedas. First of all you have to understand, "What is my relationship with God, or with this world, or the nature?" We must understand first this. And when we understand this, "This is my relationship," then my actual work will begin. That is abhidheya. And after executing that prescribed duty, the result is that I'll get my relationship with the Supreme Lord revived. These three things are described in the Vedas. There is no other thing.



*So there are different kinds of knowledge in the Vedas. Veda is a vast knowledge. Even how we shall live in this material world, that is also described. Even medicine, medicine, the science of medicine is also described in Vedas. That is called Āyur*-veda. The science of military science also described there in the Vedas. That is called Dhanur-veda. Yajur-veda... So many Vedas there are. And ultimately the knowledge is there, how to understand the Supreme Absolute Truth and how to get yourself liberated. That is... These are the subject matter of Vedas. So in the Bhagavad-gītā also the Lord says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam: [Bg. 15.15] "The ultimate purpose of Veda is to understand Kṛṣṇa." Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. So Kṛṣṇa or the sādhu and śāstra does not stop your material activities. Because you have to act materially so long you have got this material body, so they give regulation, how you should act so that ultimately you can reach to Kṛṣṇa. So if we follow the regulations given in the Vedas, then automatically we reach to the highest stage of perfection. That is the purpose of Vedas. Therefore you'll find different subject matter dealt in Vedas, and unless we have a bona fide teacher of the Vedas, it is very difficult to understand Vedic language and take advantage of it.

Therefore Lord Caitanya says that "The subject matter of the Vedas, we must understand." And what is that subject matter? That we must know our relationship with God, or with each other, or with this nature, or this world; then what is our action, regulated action; *then the prayojana, the ultimate goal of life is reached. 'Kṛṣṇa'*-prāpya sambandha, 'bhakti'-prāptyera sādhana. The ultimate end is to reach Kṛṣṇa or to get Kṛṣṇa, ultimate end. And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. The ultimate purpose of the Vedas is to reach Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So this is the ultimate goal of life, and Vedas describes this, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu is describing also. We shall come to this point gradually.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661126CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.124-125

-

New York, November 26, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*veda-śāstra*-kahe-'sambandha', 'abhidheya', 'prayojana'

*'kṛṣṇa'*-prāpya sambandha, 'bhakti'-prāptyera sādhana



*Now, the Vedas or the scriptures, why they are made? This... It is not practically made, but it is coming down by traditional process, by hearing. Just like we accept our father by hearing. A child is born, and when the child sees his other brothers and sisters calling a gentleman "father," he also begins to say "father." There is no question of studying. By hearing. How does a child learns to call the father a father? Because he hears. Others are calling "father," so he also calls "father." There is no evidence. There is no study. Similarly, the Vedic knowledge was coming by hearing. There was no need of book. But when this age, Kali*-yuga, began, five thousand years before, they were recorded, and systematically... Vedas, first there was only one Veda, Atharva Veda. Then Vyāsadeva, just to make it clear, divided into four and entrusted his various disciples to take charge of one school of Veda. Then again he made Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, just to make the Vedic knowledge understandable by the common man in different ways. But the principle is the same.



*So Lord Caitanya says the purpose of Veda is... Veda-śāstra kahe-'sambandha'. Sambandha. What is our relation? Our relation is, as Vedānta*-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So the relation with God is that we are... Everything is born out of the energy of God. So we are also born... Therefore we say God, "Father." This is accepted in every religion. There is no argument. Now, what is the relationship between father and son? Is it the relationship to exact only from father? There is no duty of the son, simply to take from father? No. There is duty. If a son is sensible and grown-up, he knows that "I have got my duty: to love my father." That is very simple thing, to love father. "Father has done so ma..., so much for me, I am just going to own the estate of father, and I am enjoying the earnings of my father. So is it not my duty to show respect to my father?"

*So those who are against God*-principle, those who are not God-minded, they're the lowest creature. They're the lowest creature. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: [Bg. 7.15] "Anyone who does not recognize God, he's the lowest of the lowest creature." Duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. These, these terms have been used. Just like mūḍha, ass; duṣkṛtina, miscreant; *and narādhamāḥ, and lowest of the mankind. Mankind. Mankind is meant for recognizing. This is the life. In animal life, one cannot recognize that there is God and everything is coming from God. They cannot read Vedas, or scriptures. They cannot take any instruction. So these Vedas and scriptures are there for human beings. Therefore, a human being, so*-called human being with two hands and two legs, but they're animals who do not accept the authority of scripture and do not accept the existence of God, so Bhagavad-gītā very nicely describes them, narādhamāḥ. Naradhāmāḥ means lowest of the mankind. So our civilization is going to the lowest of the mankind. And we are, we are trying to advertise ourself that we are advancing, but the... Yesterday some boy came: "Who is God? I am God." He was speaking like that. You see. And he appears to be educated student. From his appearance it appears that he, he's educated. So this is education is going on, that they're going to be the lowest of the mankind. The purpose of education is to make man the highest of the mankind, but modern education is teaching lowest of the mankind. And if some of the students are taught to become highest of the mankind, their guardians become disturbed: "Oh, my son is going to be highest of the mankind? Swamijī, you are playing dangerous things." Oh. Just see. Swamijī's speaking, "No, don't smoke. Don't take tea. Don't have illicit connection with women. Be upright. Be devotee." "Oh, Swamijī's dangerous." And if somebody teaches, "My dear boys, take LSD, go to hell, and become mad. Go to the lunatic asylum," "Oh, that is..." What can be done? This is the situation.

*So we are situated in a society of the lowest of the mankind. Always remember this, that we are situated in a civilization which is the lowest of the mankind. Not only I am speaking of your United States... All over the world. Even India, where so much culture was made for understanding God, this foolish government, they're also teaching this. You see. So this is the, I mean to say, age. Don't think that I am particularly criticizing some country or community. This is the age, Kali. It is called Kali. Hypocrisy, simply hypocrisy. Kali means full of hypocrisy. So we have to be very careful. We have to... Daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. And the illusory energy is very strong. At any moment, little slackness... (aside:) Oh, you have wrongly put. [break] So this is... Actually, we should understand. So Lord Caitanya says that sambandha means we have to revive, we have to reestablish our lost relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is civilization. The relationship is there already because I am born. The supreme cause is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But I have, some way or other, I have forgotten that. Therefore these scriptures-Vedas, this Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā-these scriptures are reminding me. They're made for reminding me that "Your relationship with Kṛṣṇa is eternal. Why you have forgotten? Therefore you are suffering." We have discussed the śloka, verse, that bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād īśād apetasya viparyaya-smṛtiḥ. Vipa... Because we have taken a, a reverse position for, for, forgetting the Supreme, therefore we are put into anxiety. Because we have taken a reverse position. "Who is God?" Viparyaya-smṛtiḥ. This very word is used. Viparyaya means topsy-turvied. "Your memory has become topsy-turvied. Therefore you are suffering." But he will not agree. "No, we shall adjust. We shall make laws. We shall make agitation. We shall form party and go on defying God, and we shall be happy in this way." So this godless civilization is now generating the Communist party. So the dangerous position, we are coming.

*So anyway, one who takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, he'll not be put into danger. Rest assured. So 'kṛṣṇa'*-sambandha, 'bhakti'-prāptyera sādhana. So I have to revive my relationship. Relationship is there; *simply I have forgotten. So I have to revive it, or remember it, that "Oh, I am such and such." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. I have to become a great soul by surrendering unto God. So that surrendering process is bhakti, or devotional service. My relationship is eternal with the Supreme. I have forgotten it. Now, that relationship is that He is the original father of everything, and we are all sons. So we have to become... We have... So long we have been disobedient. Now we have to become obedient. That's all. This obedience means that... What is called? Obedience, the first law of discipline. So as soon as the people of this world, so-called advanced world, they become obedient to God, then there will be discipline and there will be peace. There is no discipline now. They are not agreeable to follow any rules and regulation. Everyone is God. Everyone is dog. Everyone can do anything, whatever he likes. So there is no discipline. So bhakti, bhakti, devotional service, means to undergo a, a disciplinary system of our life so that automatically we can revive our lost relationship with Lord, God, and we become happy. This is called bhakti. Abhidheya-nāma 'bhakti', 'prema'-prayojana. And why? What is the use? Suppose we don't revive our relationship? Then you'll be disturbed. You are after peace and prosperity.

*So what is the basis of peace? Basis of peace is love. Do you think that you do not love anyone and you become peaceful? No. How it is possible? Therefore, if you love God, then you can love everyone. And if you don't love God, then you cannot love anyone. Because He's the center. Just like in our... Of course, here your family system is different. In India there is joint family system. Suppose a girl comes... The parents, they engage the girls and boys. Say a girl belonged to a different family. But when she is married, she comes to family, and because the husband and wife is related, at once the husband's brother becomes related, the husband's mother becomes related, the husband's father becomes related. Husband's... Everyone becomes related at once. The central point is husband. Before that, before any connection with that central point, this boy's father, brother had no relation with that girl. You see? So central point must be there. So if you can love God, then everything in relationship with God, then you can love. You can love every man. You can love your country. You can love your society. You can love your friend. Everyone. That is the point. They are thinking in a different way, "Why shall I love God only? Why shall I love God? I shall love my family. I shall love my country. I shall love my..." Oh, no, you cannot love. It is not possible. Because you are missing the central point. These are facts. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. One who does not love God, he cannot have any good qualification. Why? Mano-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. Because he'll simply speculate on the mental plane and he will fall down under the spell of this material energy. He has no standing. However materially, academically qualification he may be, it is clearly stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. We have given you the list, twenty-six qualifications. As we become advanced in devotional service, all these good qualities will develop automatically. There is no need of legislation. There is no need of, but, anything, but all those good qualities will develop. Otherwise, what is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Is it a sentiment or fanaticism? No. It is a science. If you follow the rules and regulation and systematically, then all these qualities will develop. You'll practically see it. And as soon as these qualities are there, then you become actually lover of your country, you become a lover of your fellow man. You become friend, God, everything.

*So if each and every man becomes like that... Of course, it is not expected that each and every man will become like that. At least, ten percent of the population become Kṛṣṇa consciousness*-there is guarantee, peace in the world. Because ekaś candra... We do not require many moons in the sky. Only one moon is sufficient to drive away the darkness. Varam eka guṇī putra na ca mūrkha-śatair api. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, "It is better to have a qualified son than to have hundreds of fools." So the modern civilization is going on in that way, godless civilization. If some percentage of the civilized human beings become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will bring forth peace. Otherwise it is not possible. It is therefore necessity. Lord Caitanya says, abhidheya 'bhakti', 'prema'-prayojana. Prayojana means it is necessary. Puruṣārtha-śiromaṇi prema mahā-dhana. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching was based on this principle: premā pumartho mahān. What is the objective of human life? He said that "Objective of human life is to attain love of God." That's all. That makes him perfect, nothing more. He..., His mission has been described by one of the ācāryas, Viśvanātha Cakravartī. He has studied. He said that the mission of Lord Caitanya is ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanaya: "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is ārādhya." Ārādhya means He is worshipable. He's the only worshipable personality. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanaya tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam: "And as Lord Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, similarly His place of pastimes, Vṛndāvana-dhāma, is also worshipable." Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanaya tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. And what is the best kind of worship for Kṛṣṇa? Now, ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇa yā-kalpitā: "The highest kind of worship is as demonstrated by the damsels of Vṛndāvana, the girlfriends of Kṛṣṇa." Yes. They had no adulteration. Simply they were always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is going outside of the village, and they were thinking at home, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa's," I mean to say, "sole is so soft. How He's wandering in the jungle? There are so many particles of stone. Must be pricking." In this way. Kṛṣṇa is there; *they are at home, but they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how He's walking, how His soft foot is suffering. In this way they are always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are not Vedantists. They are not brāhmaṇas. They are not educated. They were cowherds girls. But their love of Kṛṣṇa was so intense that Lord Caitanya recommends, "Oh, there is no better worship than, than it was being demonstrated by the damsels of Vṛndāvana." Ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja*-vadhū-vargeṇa yā kalpitā. Then what is the source of understanding Kṛṣṇa? Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalaṁ purāṇam. If you study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then you attain all these things. Śrī-caitanya-mahaprabhor matam idam. And premā pumartho mahān.

*So the book, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam; the ideal worship, the damsels of Vṛndāvana; Kṛṣṇa is the worshipable object; *and the necessary of life, necessity of life, is to attain love of God. This is the whole mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, sum and substance. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is saying here, puruṣartha-śiromaṇi prema mahā*-dhana. People are, have their objective of life, everyone. Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Their objective of life is... Of course, nowadays people are different. Formerly... It is Vedic version, dharma, to make them religious. Therefore every civilized nation has some sort of religion. Religious... Because without becoming religious, there is no possibility of peace and prosperity. So this is one of the aim of human society, religious. And why religious? Dharma-artha. Then the economic condition will be better. If all people are religious, then economic condition will be better. Dharma-artha. And why economic condition better wanted? Kāma. Kāma means then the necessities of your life will be fulfilled nicely. Dharma, artha, kāma, and moksa. Then what is the end? That if you are peacefully in the society, then you can culture for your liberation. So dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41], so generally these four principles are the aim of human society. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "Yes, these are all right." But premā pumartho mahān: "With all these things, if you have no love of Godhead, it is all nonsense. All nonsense. Therefore try to love God and everything will be all right." This is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, premā pumartho mahān. So prema. Here, also, Lord Caitanya says that we should understand our relationship with God. We should act in that way. That means in devotion. Then we shall have the highest perfection of life, love of God, and our mission of human life will be fulfilled.

Thank you. (end)





*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.125

-

New York, November 27, 1966



661127CC.NY

Prabhupāda:



*abhidheya*-nāma 'bhakti', 'prema'-prayojana

*puruṣārtha-śiromaṇi prema mahā*-dhana



*So after understanding our relationship with Kṛṣṇa... Every understanding has its ultimate goal. So the understanding is that we are eternally related with Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting this relationship, we are now engaged in relationship with this material body, which I am not. Therefore I have to revive my activities which is directly in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And that is called to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And development of that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be ended in love of, full love of Kṛṣṇa. When we reach that stage, love of God, love of Kṛṣṇa, then we love everyone because Kṛṣṇa is everyone. Without coming to that central point, our love on the material conception of life-equality, fraternity, brotherhood*-are all simply cheating process. That is not possible. So come to that stage.



*kṛṣṇa*-mādhurya-sevānanda-prāptira kāraṇa

*kṛṣṇa*-sevā kare, (āra) kṛṣṇa-rasa-āsvādana



*Kṛṣṇa*-mādhurya-sevā, prāptira kāraṇa. Just like in the material world, when we serve somebody, we become tired. We become detestful. We do not like to serve. But if we serve Kṛṣṇa, then we shall feel some ecstasy in increasing the service. There is no payment. There is, I mean to say... Materially, there is no payment. Still, a person engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will be encouraged to serve more and more. This is the distinction. In the material platform, if you serve somebody, you will find tired, satiated. You won't like. But if you engage yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, you'll find yourself more energetic. You'll like to serve more and more. That is the test. If I feel tired, then that is material, and if I feel more encouraged, that means it is blessings of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-mādhurya... So one is engaged in service of Kṛṣṇa not officially or to make show, he feels enlivened in rendering such transcendental service. Some of you must be feeling like that, I am sure; otherwise you cannot take so much responsibility, working all day, unless you feel. You see?



*So that is the test. Kṛṣṇa*-mādhurya. There is some transcendental ecstasy, feeling, in the service of the Lord. So in the beginning we may not relish that transcendental feeling, but as we go on, increasing, we'll feel it. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kare, kṛṣṇa-rasa-āsvādana. This is called kṛṣṇa-rasa. Just like anything we do, there is some humor, there is some taste. Suppose a person writes poetry. In writing that poetry he feels some taste; therefore he writes. Some, somebody plays on flute. So everything... Somebody drinks. So there is some particular taste. Similarly, transcendentally, you'll have a taste for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, a taste of mellow, mellow, or, what is called, a humor. You'll like. You'll like to serve more and more. The more you serve, you'll like to serve more and more. That is transcendental service.

*ihāte dṛṣṭānta*-yaiche daridrera ghare

'sarvajña' āsi' duḥkha dekhi' puchaye tāhāre



Now, Lord Caitanya is giving one example, that a astrologer has come to a poor man's house. The astrologer sees that "This man is living very niggardly life, wretched life, but he should not have done like that. His horoscope says that he should be a rich man. His palmistry says that he should be a rich man."



*ihāte dṛṣṭānta*-yaiche daridrera ghare

'sarvajña' āsi' duḥkha dekhi' puchaye tāhāre



So the astrologer asks him, "Oh, I see you have got some good symptoms in your horoscope, in your palm. Oh, why you are suffering? Why you are suffering?" So...



*'tumi kene duḥkhī, tomāra āche pitṛ*-dhana

tomāre nā kahila, anyatra chāḍila jīvana'



"I see that you have got your paternal property hidden somewhere, hidden somewhere. You have got some money left by your father, but it is hidden somewhere. You have to find out. It is hidden somewhere."



sarvajñera vākye kare dhanera uddeśe

*aiche veda*-purāṇa jīve 'kṛṣṇa' upadeśe



*Now, as you... Now, the poor man asked the astrologer, "Yes, what you say is right. I have heard also that my father is very rich man and he has left some money for me, but where he has kept, I do not find. Will you please let me know how I can find out?" So the astrologer... Astrologer, a perfect astrologer is called sarvajña. Sarvajña means he knows past, present and future. A real astrologer means he will tell you about your past life and he will tell you about your present life and your future life also. There is a system of astrology in India which is called Bhṛgu*-saṁhitā. Any man will go, and if the expert in Bhṛgu-saṁhitā science, he will at once tell you what you were in your past life, how you are acting in this present life, and what is your next life. Therefore, perfection of astrology is in the Bhrgu-saṁhitā, and they is called sarvajña. In old Indian system, as soon as child is born, an expert astrologer will be called forth and there will be ceremony, jāta-karma, just after the birth. Just like, before giving birth to the child, there was some ceremony which is called garbhādhāna ceremony, and between the birth-giving ceremony and the child is born, there are two other ceremonies, sadhavakan (?). So after the birth of the child, the astrologer is called forth and he begins to tell about the future of the boy.



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, when Mahārāja Parīkṣit was born, his father was dead, his grandfather. You know, his father was only sixteen years old when the boy was in the womb of his mother. In the battlefield he died. So when the child was born, the grandfather, Arjuna, and his elder brother, they are very much anxious to know how this child will become in future. Because a responsible king, they wanted to know "Whether the child is worth to our family?" So everything was spoken that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "This child will be like this, like this," and it was foretold that the at the last stage of his life, he will be cursed by a brāhmaṇa and he will die out of snake bite. "This child will die by snake bite." That was also foretold. And because the brāhmaṇa cursed, a brāhmaṇa boy cursed him that "Within seven days the king will die by snake bite..." That's a long story. Therefore, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was not very old, but he understood that "I will have to die by snake bite, so let me get free from this royal responsibilities." He at once handed over his kingdom to his son and went to the bank of the Ganges and sat down there tight, without taking any food and drink, for seven days, and he heard Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the authoritative source of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and he died at the end of seven days. A snake came and bit him.

So this astrological calculation were then; *still there are. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, when Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was written, it was five thousand years before. It is stated there that in the beginning of Kali-yuga, there will be buddha-avatāra, incarnation. Vabhisekha (?). Vabhisekha means "there will appear." These are śāstra, these are astrological calculation, everything perfect. The other day, when I was discussed about Sanātana Goswami, how even an ordinary hotel keeper, he kept an astrologer who told the hotel keeper that "This man has got eight golden dollars." Just see. This is astrology. Even a thief could be conducted, guided by astrologer, and what to speak of others. So that was their system in India. So that example is being placed here by Lord Caitanya that the Veda, that is astrology for your guidance. For your guidance, the scripture is your astrologer. He knows your future, he knows your past. So therefore you should consult, you should consult, for our guidance.

Now, the astrologer is supposed to give some instruction to the poor man.

*'ei sthāne āche dhana'*-yadi dakṣiṇe khudibe

*'bhīmarula*-barulī' uṭhibe, dhana nā pāibe



*Now, the astrologer says, is giving him, it is figurative, that "If you want to search out the Absolute Truth by ritualistic method..." Mostly people are attached to the particular faith and its ritualistic method. They consider this is everything. Veda*-vāda-ratāḥ pārtha nānyad astīti vādinaḥ. They think that performing these rituals of a particular religion and faith, that is all; *no more. So Lord Caitanya says, Lord Caitanya in the shape of that astrologer says, that if you follow*-it is given figuratively, that he is searching after the wealth left by his father. Similarly, we have got our father, the Supreme, and He is the supreme proprietor of everything. If we try to find out our father and father's property by the ritualistic process-there are ritualistic processes in every religion and in every scripture-but if we stick to that, then the result will be they will be entrapped by the search, fanaticism, and it will be not possible to make progress. This is called dakṣiṇa system. Dakṣiṇa, dakṣiṇa means if he is giving him instruction that "Your house is bounded by east side, west side, north side and south side. So if you go to the south..." South is translated into Sanskrit, dakṣiṇa. And dakṣiṇa also means giving something to the priest in respect of his service for performing rituals. So this is figuratively being used, dakṣiṇa. Dakṣiṇa means priesthood. If you follow the priesthood, then the result will be that 'bhīmarula-barulī' uṭhibe, dhana nā pāibe. "There are some poisonous insects which will bite you, and you will not be able to dig out the wealth left by your father." So this poisonous effect is that the priesthood, they are for business. They will never give you the right thing, not it is in their power. Not it is in their power. That is going on. But if you find out, if you want to find out the Absolute Truth through this rituals and priesthood, then the result will be that you will be bitten by some poisonous insects and your attempt will be unsuccessful. Paścime, paścime khudibe.



'paścime' khudibe, tāhā 'yakṣa' eka haya

*se vighna (karibe)*-dhane hāta nā paḍaya



*Then again, the system of ahaṅgama*-pāsanā, pantheism, philosophical speculation, pantheism, monism, atheism, agnosticism, so many isms there are. So if you follow these isms, there is a jata, there is another danger which you will not get any information of the Absolute Truth.



'uttare' khudile āche kṛṣṇa 'ajagare'

dhana nāhi pābe, khudite gilibe sabāre



*So uttara, uttara means uttara*-mīmāṁsā. There is a philosophy which is called karma-mīmāṁsā. Karma-mīmāṁsā means there is no need of making your relationship with God. God is Supreme, accepted, but He is bound to give you the result of your honest work. This is another philosophy. So you work honestly, there is more or less moral principles. If you stick to the moral principle, ethics and morals, then you will be entrapped by the prideness that "Oh, I am very moral. I do not speak lies. I do not steal. I treat with my neighbors very nicely. So I have no necessity to search out father. I am quite all right." That means, this mundane moralist, if you become mundane moralist, or if you become mundane philosopher or if you stick to the ritualistic process of your particular faith, then there is no hope of reaching to the Absolute Truth. Mundane scriptural, ritualistic way and dry speculative philosophy and mundane moralists. Just like Arjuna and his brother. His eldest brother is Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira; he was very moralist, Dharmarāja. His name was "the king of religious principles," Dharmarāja. So Kṛṣṇa Himself advised him that "You go to Droṇācārya and tell him a lie, that 'Your son is dead. Your son is dead.' " Now Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, he was a mundane moralist, so "How can I tell lie? How can I tell lie? I have never spoken lie in my life." So there was some argument. Of course this was, fight was, some compromise was made between them in the camp. So he became a mundane moralist. He did not consider that "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is asking me to tell lie." So he could not transgress his moral principles so he could not become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He (was) considered mundane moralism, so it was not possible for him to become a Kṛṣṇa conscious person. He could not take Kṛṣṇa's order as the Supreme. But Arjuna, in the beginning, he was hesitating to fight and kill his kinsmen, and when he understood that "Kṛṣṇa wants this fight," he decided, "Yes, I shall do." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So these are the principles. If we stick to the particular type of ritualism-because I confess a particular type of faith, and my faith describes this sort of ritualism, I must follow-then you stick to that, you cannot make any progress. And if you go on simply philosophizing*-this ism, that ism, that ism, nonsense-ism-then also you will not be able. And if you become mundane moralist, then also you will not be able. You have to become transcendental to all these mundane principles; then it will be possible to become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. So it is not transgressing, because as soon as you become really Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you become all: you become a philosopher, you become a ritualistic, you become actually moralist. What is the standard of morals? Can you explain? What is the standard of morality? Can you explain? Can any one of you say? Have you got any idea what is the standard of morality? The standard of morality is to obey the Supreme. That is standard of morality. Standard of morality does not mean that you manufacture something morality out of your concoction. No. Standard of morality is to obey the Supreme. That is standard of morality. Example. Example is, just like this State, the State has law that if you commit murder, then you will be hanged. It is immoral. If you commit theft, then you will be punished. But when the State says that you go and become a spy and become a thief and bring out these documents on the enemy's camp, that is morality. If you kill a man, you will be hanged. But when the State order, if you kill an enemy, hundreds of enemy, you will be awarded gold medal. So if you stick to the principle, theft and murder, and do not follow the State order, you will be considered, what is called, tyrant, or what is that? Traitor. Traitor.

So if in our practical experience we see to obey the order of the Supreme is morality, standard of morality, don't you think to obey the supermost supreme, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to obey Him, that is morality. That is morality. So if you stick to the mundane principle, then it will not be. Therefore the astrologer advises the poor man,

*pūrva*-dike tāte māṭi alpa khudite

dhanera jhāri paḍibeka tomāra hātete



*In other words, that if you take this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service, a slight attempt will give you the treasury house of that wealth. A slight attempt. Sv*-alpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. This is the only, only path. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that if you actually want God, then you will have to follow this process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord. That will make you successful. Even if you execute a little percentage of this process, then you will touch at once, at least you will know, "Oh, here is the hidden box containing the treasure." Now, gradually, you open it and then enjoy. But at once you will get information, "Here is the thing." So this is the process. Aiche śāstra kahe-karma, jñāna, yoga tyaji'.



*Now, Lord Caitanya is explaining this system, different system, ritualistic, philosophical, meditation, morality, all these in śāstra-kahe. Real Vedic instruction... Just like, what is Veda? Veda means the words of the Lord. That is Veda. Scripture means the words of the Lord. God says, "Let there be light." God says, "Let there be creation." These words are scripture. Now one who takes out... Just like sound is transmitted from a certain place, and one who catches by the machine, he gets the information. Similarly, Veda means instruction transmitted by the Supreme Lord, and there are capable personalities, just like Brahmā, that capture it, and that is distributed, either in writing or by tradition, by hearing. That is scripture. The words of God. Now, here the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is personally speaking Bhagavad-gītā. Is it not Veda? That is Veda. That is real Veda. Sarva-upaniṣade. In the Gītā-māhātmya it is said, "This is the essence of all Veda." This is Vedānta. Simply by studying Bhagavad-gītā, one becomes a learned science in the science of God. So śāstra-kahe. And what is that śāstra? The essence of all śāstra, the essence of all scripture, asks you to do*-the śāstra says, the Lord says-sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up everything, just surrender under Me." This is the most confidential part of knowledge.

*So "give up everything" means there are different processes, different processes, ritualistic process, different religious processes, philosophical processes, meditation, so many. "Give up all them. Simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa." So Lord Caitanya is stressing on that point, that aiche śāstra kahe*-karma, jñāna, yoga tyaji'. Karma. Karma means general activities on moral principle. That is called karma. Karma means, real karma means that you have to live, so you have to work. So work in such a way that you may not be entangled. Just like honest businessman, he works, he works according to the law. He does not play any blackmailing, and he pays the proper income tax to the government and the other taxes. He does nicely. This is called work, karma. You have to live. Without working you cannot live. But you work in such a way so that you may not be entangled. That is called work, karma. Now, this work is not the solution of your human life. You can get some morsel of bread and eat and drink and sleep and just enjoy your life and die like cats and dogs, that's all. And then you will take with you the result of your good work or bad work. That is karma. That is not solution. Then the next stage is, above this karma, this ordinary, general people, there is a class, they are thinkers. They are thinkers: "Whether this is the solution of life?" So thinkers, some of them are dry thinkers, they have no knowledge, but they think only. They do not get the source of knowledge from higher authorities; they manufacture their own way. So apart from that, those who are bona fide thinkers, they are called jñānī. Jñānī means that this process of karma cannot make solution of life. They push some philosophical thesis that "This is the solution of life." They are called jñānī. The others, yogis, they meditate. So what they meditate? Not they meditate falsely; they meditate, they concentrate the whole senses and put the focus on the soul and the Supersoul. So their endeavor is to make, reestablish with the Supersoul who is sitting in my heart. That is yoga system.

So all these systems can be adjusted only in one system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the version of all the śāstra, all the *Vedas*. Lord Caitanya also confirms that

*aiche śāstra kahe*-karma, jñāna, yoga tyaji'

'bhaktye' kṛṣṇa vaśa haya, bhaktye tāṅre bhaji



If you want Kṛṣṇa, if you want God, then you don't try to follow all these processes. You just try to follow devotional service to the Lord, bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will please Kṛṣṇa. Then by His pleasing, He will reveal to you. He will reveal to you. God being pleased with your sincere service and love, He will let you know. Just like Arjuna is being instructed by the Supreme Lord, and He says, "My dear Arjuna, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge." So if we become friends like Arjuna to Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will reveal Himself, as He is revealing Himself, "I am this, I am that, I am this, I am that." (indistinct) So if you actually want to reestablish your lost relationship with Kṛṣṇa and God, then you have to adopt this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and nothing more.



Thank you very much. (end)



661128CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.137

-

New York, November 28, 1966



Prabhupāda:



na sādhayati māṁ yogaḥ

na sāṅkhyaṁ dharma uddhava

na svādhyāyas tapas tyāgaḥ

yathā bhaktir mamorjitā



*So Lord Caitanya explained to the poverty*-stricken man that simile. The astrologer is foretelling about the poverty-stricken man that "You are a very rich man's son. Your father has got so much wealth, but you do not know. Therefore you are suffering." To be poor man in this world, material world, is a curse for ordinary, general people. Those who are spiritually enriched, they have nothing to do with this poverty or richness of this material world. But those who are under the concept of material life, poverty is a curse for them. So living entities, they are not meant for being poverty-stricken because they are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, the supreme proprietor. Therefore he has, by his birthright, to enjoy the God's property. That is the law. But under spell of illusion, we have forgotten our relationship with the supreme father; *therefore we are suffering. This is the diagnosis. Now we have to find out how to go home, back to go, back to home, back to Godhead. That should be the mission of human life. Never mind under what circumstances and why we are in contact with this material world, but we should come to this point by the instruction of the astrologer*-like Vedic literatures. Just like the astrologer is giving hint to the poor man, similarly, the Vedic literature is also giving us hint, astrological instructions, that we can become the richest by reviving our lost relationship with our father.



*So that process of reviving... There are different paths, different rituals. So Lord Caitanya says that no other method... Not only... Not Caitanya, but the Vedic literature says. So He is quoting one evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: na sādhayati māṁ yogaḥ. The Lord says that "The yoga process cannot achieve success in reaching Me." Na sāṅkhyam. Sāṅkhyam means philosophical speculation. "That also cannot reach Me." Na dharma. Dharma means religious principles. Uddhava: "O My dear Uddhava." This is an instruction just like Lord Kṛṣṇa gave instruction to Arjuna in the Bhagavad-gītā; *similarly, He gave instruction to one of His cousin-brothers whose name was Uddhava. And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So in course of that instruction He says, "My dear Uddhava, yoga cannot achieve Me, neither sāṅkhya." Yoga means, real yoga means "connect, plus." Real yoga means "plus," "addition," just like in mathematics we have got addition and subtraction. So at the present moment we are in subtraction*-God minus myself. I have no sense of God; *therefore I am in minus condition. So yoga means God plus I. That is the real meaning of yoga. So long I was God*-minus, now God-plus. But you must always remember. In the spiritual, absolute sense, God plus me is also God, and God minus me is also God. When I am minus, that does not mean God has lost some of His capacity. No. He is full. And when I am plus, it does not mean that God has increased in some capacity. No. The very good example is given, āpūryamāṇam acala-pratiṣṭha. Just like the ocean, Atlantic Ocean. In the... During summer season, rainy season, millions of tons water is evaporated by the sun to make, to create cloud, but if you see the Atlantic Ocean, it is the same. Similarly, after rainy season, millions of tons of water are poured into the ocean by overflow of rivers, but still, you see the ocean is the same. In the material world, if you can find out such things that an ordinary ocean... I say "ordinary" because there are millions of oceans floating in the air. Therefore we should not be very much astonished to see the Atlantic Ocean. Within this space, even within this material space, you have got millions and trillions of ocean like Atlantic. Just like a drop of water or less than that, an atomic portion of water, they are floating in the air. So that is the potency of God.

*So yoga... Yoga means God plus myself, plus myself. The system is: those who are too much engrossed with this bodily conception of life, for them, yoga system is very good because it is a practice to withdraw the senses from their engagement in the external world to the inside. Pratyāhāra. And yama, niyama, asana, prāṇāyāma, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, pratyāhāra, samādhi-there are eight different stages of yoga practice. The first practice is yama. Yama, niyama. Under regulative principle, one has to try, endeavor, to control the senses about eating, about sleeping, about working. These are called yama-niyama. Then there are different kinds of sitting postures. They are called āsana. So yama-niyama means the first principle of yoga is to abstain from sex life. That is real yoga. Those who are indulging in sex life, intoxication, and so many nonsense things, they have no chance for any success in yoga. This is called yama-niyama. And then, after controlling, after sitting, then one has to sit nicely in a secluded place, in a sanctified place, and sit straight with your neck, head and body in one straight line. Then you have to see the tip of your nose without closing your eyes and not opening your eyes. If you open your eyes, then all this material manifestation will disturb you. And if you close your eyes, then you snap. (snores) I have seen. So many yogis are doing that, sleeping. (laughter) Yes. So these are the process. Then dhyāna, then concentration of the mind. Then what is the purpose of concentrating the mind? Just to find out myself, where I am within this body, and then find out where is Lord. This is the perfection of yoga. Simply that I am doing all nonsense whole day and night, and I am attending yoga class, paying five dollars to the class, and I am thinking, "Oh, I am a great yogi"*-this is all nonsense. Yoga is not so easy thing. You see? So simply this... This is the simply exploitating, the so-called society. I tell frankly they are society of the cheater and the cheated. This is not the process of yoga.

*So yoga process is very difficult at the present moment. Yoga... Because it is stated in the Vedic literature, that is an approved method. That's all right. But that method is very difficult in the modern age to perform. And what to speak of us, even five thousand years before, when the circumstances were more favorable and people were not so polluted and they were advanced in so many things, still, at that time a personality like Arjuna, he refused. When Kṛṣṇa asked him that "You become a yogi like this," he said, "It is not possible for me. It is not possible for me." So this is an overendeavor, to practice yoga in this age, which was refused by a personality like Arjuna. So yoga is not at all possible. It was possible in the Satya*-yuga, when every man was in the modes of goodness. Every man was highly elevated. The yoga process is meant for the highly elevated personalities, not for ordinary man. So even that yoga practice is done very nicely and perfectly, that cannot take you to the Supreme Lord. That is denied here. What to speak of this pseudo yoga process, even if you perform it rightly, even if you do it nicely, perfectly, still, you cannot reach God. That is denied here. Na sādhayati māṁ yogaḥ na sāṅkhya. Sāṅkhya means just discriminate what is spirit and what is matter. That is called sāṅkhya. Samyak khyāpayate.

*So by philosophical speculation this process is... Now, what is that philosophical speculation? What is this material world? They are divided into twenty-four parts, this material world. What are those? Now, the first thing is that what we see, the five material elements, the earth, water, fire, air, ether. These are material elements. These are studied. Then finer than the ether is the mind, then finer than the mind is the intelligence, and finer than the intelligence... Mana, buddhi, ahaṅkāra. Ahaṅkāra means ego, ego, false conception, that "I am this matter." These are eight elements. Then your senses, five working senses and five knowledge-acquiring senses... Just like our eyes, ears, tongue, hand*-all these five senses, they are acquiring knowledge. And five senses just like hands, legs, and evacuating hole, genital-these are five senses by which we are enjoying or suffering. And the five objects of senses. What is that? Form, rūpa; rasa, taste; smell; and... Rūpa; rasa; gandha; śabda, sound; *sparśā, touch. So these five. So five plus eleven, and mind. Five plus eleven equal to sixteen, and these eight elements, twenty*-four. The whole material world is analyzed into twenty-four parts. That analytical study is called sāṅkhya. Samyak khyāpayati iti sāṅkhya: complete, full analysis of this, whatever we are experiencing. And above that, that spirit soul, above that. Because these twenty-four elements, they are combination. Whatever we are thinking, whatever we seeing in this material world, they are combination of these twenty-four elements. And above that, there is the soul. And above that, there is God.

*So Sankhyites, those who are simply analyzing this material world, they cannot find out what is soul. Sāṅkhya means the material scientist, one may, you may call. Just like material scientists, they are simply studying these material objects. They have no information above that. They have no information. Now I am talking with you, so they cannot explain what is that thing which is talking. They cannot analyze this body. Medical doctor, after dissecting this body, they cannot find out what is the spiritual force, what is working. That they cannot. So because they cannot find out even the particles of the Supreme Lord*-we living entities, we are all particles of the Supreme Lord-so if they cannot find out the particle, what there is chance to find out God? So they cannot also find out God. Neither this yogi, they cannot find out the Supreme Lord, neither these materialists who are simply analyzing these material elements, they cannot. Na sāṅkhya.

*Dharma. Dharma means rituals. Everyone has got some faith, and faith means... Just like Hindus are going to the church, er, in temple, and the Christians are going to the church, or Muslims, they are going to the mosque, they..., with idea that "Here is God." That is, of course, beginning. It is nice. But because they are trapped in simply the rituals, they have no other, further knowledge, so that also cannot help to reach because they are trapped. Every religious faith, because the fai... Of course, that conviction must be there. But they do not try to make any further advance. They think that "Here it is ended. Everything is ended here." Therefore they cannot make any progress. (aside:) Please sit down. Don't... So they cannot also. Then svādhyāya. Svādhyāya means study, study of these Vedic literatures. Without any guidance, if you... Just like so many ladies and gentlemen, they purchase books from the market. They have heard that Bhagavad-gītā is very nice book. So svādhyāya. Svādhyāya means studying the scriptures. Studying the Vedic literatures, that is called svādhyāya. Svādhyāya. And tapaḥ. Tapaḥ means penance. Somebody is fasting. Somebody is in the solitary place in the jungle. They are meditating. So many, there are process of penances and austerities. And tyāga, and renunciation. Just like sannyāsī, renounced order of life. So (the) Lord says, "All these processes-the yoga process, the sāṅkhya process, the ritualistic process, or studying the Vedas or undergoing severe type of penance and austerities*-all these processes, combined together or individually, they are not suitable for achieving Me. They are not."

*So practically every process is condemned herewith by the Supreme Lord, condemned in this sense, that they can approach to a certain degree, certain extent, towards the final goal. But that process will never be able to achieve to the final goal unless this devotional process is added there. Plus, this must be, the devotion, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because ultimate end is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. As we have several times discussed that verse from the Bhagavad*-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births, those who are actually intellectual, they come to Me and surrender to God, that 'Here is...' Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] 'God is everything.' Then he surrenders." So one has to come. Maybe you go by the yoga process, maybe you go by the philosophical process, maybe you go by the ritualistic process, maybe that you go by penances and by study. But unless you reach to this point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your attempt..., not failure, but there are different degrees. So people are satisfied with that different degrees only. They... Hardly they try to reach the final goal. But if anyone wants to reach the final goal, then he has to take this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, bhaktir mamorjitā. That process alone can take you to the Supreme Lord.

So those who are intelligent, they take this simple process. Now, especially in this age, even you cannot perform any other process. You cannot perform perfectly yoga, you cannot perform the religious rituals, neither you can study. The circumstances are so unfavorable that these processes are not possible in this age. Therefore Lord Caitanya, by His causeless mercy, He has given us this process:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



"In this age of Kali," harer nāma, "simply by chanting the holy name," harer nāma, "simply by chanting the holy name," harer nāma, again, thrice, "simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa..." Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam. You should always do this. Kalau: "In this age"; *nāsty eva, "there is no other alternative," nāsty eva, "there is no other alternative," nāsty eva, "there is no other alternative." Three times again, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā: "There is no other process." So these are stressed by the Vedic literatures. This verse is quoted from Bṛhad*-Nāradīya Purāṇa. Out of eighteen Purāṇas, this Bṛhad-Nāradīya Purāṇa is also... So this is recommended. So Lord Caitanya's recommendation also is corroborating. He is not recommending this process by manufacturing Himself, but He is quoting from the authorized scripture and authorized sources so that people can accept it. So we should accept this process-



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



**-and practically see that this is the only process of swiftly realizing the supreme truth, Absolute Truth. So we should follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously and sincerely.



Thank you very much. (end)



661129CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.137-142

-

New York, November 29, 1966



Prabhupāda:



na sādhayati māṁ yogaḥ

na sāṅkhyaṁ dharma uddhava

na svādhyāyas tapas tyāgaḥ

yathā bhaktir mamorjitā



So if you want God, Kṛṣṇa, then there is no other way except this devotional service. Neither yoga, neither philosophical speculation, neither ritualistic performances, nor study in the Vedic literature, neither penance, austerities... All these formulas which are recommended for transcendental realization, they may help us to advance to a certain extent, but if you want personal touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you have to adopt this devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other way.



*So Lord Caitanya, giving evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam... He is giving:

bhaktyāham ekayā grāhyaḥ

śraddhayātmā priyaḥ sataṁ

*bhaktiḥ punāti man*-niṣṭhā

*śva*-pākān api sambhavāt



*There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Lord says... The same chapter in which Lord Kṛṣṇa instructed Uddhava... Uddhava was also one of His cousin-brothers in the family. He was a great devotee, Uddhava. He was more advanced than Arjuna. There are different grades of devotees. The first-class devotees were the gopīs, the damsels of Vṛndāvana. Nobody could be compared with their devotional service. So next were Uddhava, then Arjuna. There are different grades of devotees also. So Uddhava was also a great devotee of (the) Lord, and he was also instructed similarly, just like Arjuna was instructed. So the Lord says to Uddhava, bhaktyā aham ekayā grāhyaḥ. Ekayā: simply by devotional service, one, this one method... God is one, and to achieve Him, the process is also one. Just like in your body there are many holes, nine holes, nine holes: these two nostrils, two ear, two eyes, one mouth, and genital and evacuation, these nine holes. So if you want to supply foodstuff within your body, that is the one way: this is the mouth. There is no other way. You cannot push the foodstuff through ears or eyes or genital. No. That is not possible. Therefore, similarly, if you want God, then the one way, bhaktyā aham ekayā... Ekayā. The foolish person says that "Whatever path you may adopt, you will go to God." There are certain rascals. They say like that. But this is misleading, completely misleading. You cannot, I mean to say, reach God by any other means except this means, this bhaktyā aham ekayā. It is clearly stated, ekayā. Ekayā means "only one." There is no second process. And the Bhagavad-gītā also, it is stated*-you will find in the Eighteenth Chapter-bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ means in fact.



*So you... Impersonal conception of Godhead, localized conception of Godhead or universal form of God, pantheism, monism*-they are not perfect. If you want to know perfectly, then bhakti... It is stated in everywhere, in all Vedic literatures, evidentially in Bhagavad-gītā, which is present before us, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Everywhere you will find this only way, that devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Tattvataḥ means "in fact." Partially you can know, but in complete... Of course, God cannot be known in complete, but the highest point a human being or a living entity can reach... That, the only process, through bhakti... Bhaktyāham ekayā grāhyaḥ śraddhayātmā priyaḥ satām. Śraddhā ātmā priyaḥ satām. That bhakti, that process of devotional service, is very dear to the actual transcendentalist, very dear. Bhaktiḥ punāti man-niṣṭhā. Man-niṣṭhā. To know simply "I believe in God," that is not sufficient. The ultimate goal is to attain very intimate relationship or love of Godhead. That is required. Of course, to know, to believe in God, to accept God, that is all right. It is better than the atheist. But that is not end. You must develop yourself. You must... You should not simply make God as your order-supplier, but you should be order-supplier. When I become order-supplier to God, that is my perfection. And so long I keep God as my order-supplier, that is not bhakti. Generally, people keep God as his order-supplier: "O God, give us our daily bread," "O God, I am in distress, "O God, I am in difficulty, "O God, I am..." God supplies them. God is supplying. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. But that is not ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is that you should supply God. God will be dependent on you. That is bhakti.

*Just like Yaśodāmayī. Yaśodāmayī, he (she) was so advanced in devotion that God became dependent on her. God appeared as his (her) child. As the child always remains dependent on the mercy of the mother, similarly Kṛṣṇa before His foster mother Yaśodāmayī just remained just like dependent. Mother said, "My dear child, if You become more naughty, then I shall chastise You." And God is crying. You see? These are the relationship between God and the devotee. You see? One who chastises the whole universe, whole creation, He is afraid of His mother. He becomes dependent as He likes. It is said in the śāstra that "When My devotee thinks Me dependent on him, oh, I like that. I like that." People always worship God as the sublime, but the devotee, they do not worship. They want to serve God as dependent. Just like mother serves the child as dependent. There is no purpose. The mother is satisfied simply by keeping the child in perfect order. Yes. There is no purpose. Similarly, when we shall be inclined to see that He is always satisfied, that is devotion. Then you can have God in your grip. You see? God is so kind, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, that He becomes just... Ajito 'pi. Nobody can conquer Him, but He becomes conquered by this kind of devotional service. You see? Ajito 'pi jito 'py asi. He becomes conquered. This is the process of conquering. What is the use of becoming one with God? You can conquer Him. You can have Him within your grips. Such is the process, devotional service. It is stated here. Ataeva. Therefore, Lord Caitanya concludes, ataeva 'bhakti'*-kṛṣṇa-prāptyera upāya. Therefore, if you want Kṛṣṇa, then bhakti, the devotional service, is the only way.

*ataeva 'bhakti'*-kṛṣṇa-prāptyera upāya

'abhidheya bali' tāre sarva-śāstre gāya



Abhidheya means that is the transaction.



So in this life, while we are in the material world, so we have our material body. So this devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, doing everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this is just like, what is called, apprenticeship to reach that highest stage. The same thing will be there in your liberated stage in the spiritual kingdom. But here, by the order of the śāstra, by the guidance of the spiritual master, you are being trained up as apprentice. This is called abhidheya, abhidheya, practice, practice. But even in practice you will feel that "I am making progress." It is such a thing. 'Abhidheya' bali' tāre sarva-śāstre gāya. And,

*dhana pāile yaiche sukha*-bhoga phala pāya

*sukha*-bhoga haite duḥkha āpani palāya



*taiche bhakti*-phale kṛṣṇe prema upajaya

prema kṛṣṇāsvāda haile bhava nāśa pāya



*Very important passage. Just note it carefully. Now, by apprenticeship, by practice, if one sincerely follows this practice, then what is the result? Dhana pāile yaiche sukha*-bhoga phala pāya. Just like a poor man, if he gets sufficient money, then at once his all distress is over, at once, immediately. Simultaneously, as soon as the sun is in the sky, at once the darkness is gone. Just in the morning, a little, not sun directly, but even there is sunshine far away, immediately the darkness goes away. I am in distress; *I am in poverty*-stricken. Suppose I get immediately some large amount of money. Immediately my distress gone. So exactly like that, dhana pāile yaiche sukha-bhoga phala pāya, then automatically he becomes happy, a poor man when he gets money. Similarly, as soon as we have little taste of this devotional service, at once all our miserable life becomes happy at once. Yes. Sukha-bhoga haite duḥkha āpani palāya. And if there is happiness, where is the question of misery? If there is light, where there is question of darkness?



*So a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he cannot be in distress of material miseries. It goes automatically, automatically. Taiche bhakti*-phale kṛṣṇe prema upajaya. Similarly, by execution of this devotional service, gradually you develop love of God, love of God. And preme kṛṣṇāsvāda haile bhava nāśa... And as soon as you get a taste for Kṛṣṇa, you at once lose all this nonsense taste, culminating into sex life. The material taste means we want to gratify senses in so many ways, and the supermost point is sex life. So as soon as you get into touch with Kṛṣṇa and you develop Kṛṣṇa love, all this nonsense finished. Then you are liberated. And so long you are attached even to a pinch of material taste, there is no question of liberation from material miseries; *you have to continue this transmigration from one body to another, and body means material miseries. The material body means material misery. You may get the body of a king or you may get the body of Brahmā or Indra, Candra or the ant or the insignificant animal. Any body, any material body, that is meant for miseries, miseries, tāpa*-traya, threefold, threefold material miseries, and, besides that threefold miseries, ultimately birth, death, old age and diseases.

*So to develop love of Kṛṣṇa means that is real liberation. And that love of Kṛṣṇa begins after many, many births of cultural life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. When one surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa, that is the beginning of his real life. And as he makes progress, then he realizes*-I have several times discussed this point-ādau śraddhā. First thing is that "I must get myself out of this material contamination." That is called śraddhā. "In this very life I shall realize." So this śraddhā, this belief and this determination, as you make more and more perfect, you make advance. You make advance. Not as official, not as makeshow, but really... Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ. Then, as you are determined, so your taste for associating with devotees... Just like we are now associating with Lord Kṛṣṇa's, Lord Caitanya's, teaching. He is a great devotee. This is called sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga tathā bhajana-kriyā. Then bhajana-kriyā, how to execute. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching. You will gradually know what is the bhajana-kriyā, how to execute devotional service. That we shall come later on. Tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. And as soon as your devotional service, prescribed duties, are discharged, you become free from all material contamination. That is the test. Tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā. Then you become firmly convinced. Tato niṣṭhā tato ruci. Then taste. Athāsakti: then you cannot give it up, at any circumstances cannot give it up. Athāsaktis tato bhāvas: then you become fully in samādhi, in trance. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādur... These are the steps of attaining love of God. Love of God is not that you can immediately go and purchase from the market in the store. You have to practice it. The love is there within you. It is not artificial, neither an imposition by some person or... No. It is already there. If you kindly become submissively hearing this, by hearing only, and if you practice, it will be very nice and quickly we shall develop.

*So hearing and practicing. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. Kirtana, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ jihvādau. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. The tongue especially meant, tongue. Tongue should be engaged, jihvā. How? Tongue should be engaged in glorifying. That is one business. And tongue should be engaged for eating kṛṣṇa*-prasāda. These two things, chanting and eating. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. As soon as you submissively engage your tongue... Just see the technique: no other body, no other part. Tongue has been especially mentioned. And what is the business of tongue? I am speaking with the help of tongue. If there was no tongue, I could not talk with you. And another, I taste. So engage your tasting capacity of the tongue in kṛṣṇa-prasāda and engage your tongue in talking of Kṛṣṇa. Then this is the process. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. And as you engage them in this process, God will reveal to you. You cannot order God, "Please come and be stand up. I shall see You." He is not your servant. You have to please Him by your service attitude. Then He will reveal to you what He is. And that is bhakti. That is bhakti: taiche bhakti-phale kṛṣṇe prema upajaya. If you execute the devotional service, then you develop that love. And as soon as kṛṣṇa-prema āsvāda haile, bhava nāśa pāya... And as soon as you develop, the more the proportionate way of, you develop love of Kṛṣṇa, love of God, proportionately, you are free from this material contamination. When you are perfectly in Kṛṣṇa love, you are perfectly free from material contamination. This is the way of liberation.

*dāridrya*-nāśa, bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' naya

*prema*-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya



*So one should not think that "Now I am materially happy. My all distress, my all poverty, has gone by Kṛṣṇa, by devotional service of Kṛṣṇa," or "I have become liberated." No. These are by*-products. To become liberated and to become materially happy by prosecution of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a by-product. You have to attempt further thing. And what is that? Prema-sukha-bhoga: you shall be absorbed in love of Kṛṣṇa. That is the... That is here recorded that that should be your ultimate goal of life. So we should not stop: "Oh, now I am very happy. Now I have no material miseries," or "I am liberated. Now this material contamination does not affect me." No. When you will be so much absorbed in love of God, just like Lord Caitanya showed... Cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me, govinda-viraheṇa me: "Oh, I am crying. Just My tears coming, just torrents of rain from My eyes." Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam: "I am seeing everything vacant." Why? Govinda-viraheṇa me: "In separation of Govinda." That is highest stage of life. Govinda-viraheṇa me. Just like in this material world, if you love somebody and if he is dead and passed and gone, you see everything vacant. That is a test of that govinda viraha. But we are foolish. We know that everything will be finished here. Why should I give so much attachment to this nonsense? Give your attachment to Kṛṣṇa. He will never be finished. So that is love of Kṛṣṇa. We have to attain that stage. Yes. That is the perfection of life.



Thank you. (aside:) You are going? (end)



710224CC.BOM

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.137-146

-

Bombay, February 24, 1971



Haṁsadūta: The lecture was recorded the morning of 24th March, 1971, at Akasha Ganga, Bombay.



Prabhupāda:



...na sāṅkhyaṁ dharma uddhava

na svādhyāyas tapas tyāgo

yathā bhaktir mamorjitā



*We have explained this verse yesterday, that in order to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, bhakti, devotional service is required. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] "Simply through devotional service one can understand Me." Not through knowledge, not through fruitive activities. There are various types of men. The lowest stage is the karmīs. Karmīs means those who are working very hard for sense gratification. They are called karmīs. And the next stage is the jñānī. Wiser than the karmīs, they try to realize the value of life, what is the value of life. Not that blindly, simply working hard day and night. Actually, human form of life is not meant for that purpose, to work so hard. Because the animals... Our tendency is also... Therefore the capitalists and the laborer class are there. Actually, we do not want to work hard. That is our tendency. But we want more profit for sense gratification. Therefore we utilize other's service, who will work for me, and I shall take the profit. This is the defect of modern civilization. Actually, my tendency is... Just like when a man gets some money, he does not work very much. He takes some profit, either keeping in the bank some balance, and lives in a comfortable place. That is the tendency. Because we are spiritual entities, our natural tendency is to enjoy life. Spiritual entities means by nature, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12); *by nature, they want to enjoy life. Ānanda*-mayo 'bhyāsāt. That is the spiritual nature. As Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is by nature joyful, similarly, we being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we are also by nature joyful. But unfortunately, we have been put into such condition, material condition, that we are trying to enjoy life in this material condition. That is not possible. So karmīs, they are trying their best to make material adjustments and enjoy life. They are called karmīs. But when they are wiser, that "We have worked so hard, but actually we could not enjoy life. Then what is the problem of life?" that is the platform of the jñānīs and the yogis.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that these karmīs, the jñānīs... In another place, in His instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī, He has said that in the human society there are different kinds of people. Out of that, those who are followers of the Vedic civilization, they are supposed to be first-class human being. So out of the followers of Vedic civilization, mostly they say that "We are followers of Vedic civilization," but actually they do not do. Actually, they, I mean to say, indulge in anything which is not sanctioned by the Vedic knowledge or Vedic scriptures. Take, for example, that in our Vedic civilization, these four things are prohibited: illicit sex life, animal-killing, intoxication, and gambling. This is the preliminary understanding. Especially those who are higher caste-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya*-they are strictly forbidden. That is the Vedic injunction. But although we pose ourself followers of Vedic injunction, we indulge in these things. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Most people, they call themselves as followers of Vedic civilization, but actually they do not obey all the rules and regulations." Then again He says that "Persons who are actually trying to follow the Vedic rules and regulations, mostly they are karmīs." Karmīs means they are attracted by the ritualistic ceremonies just like performing great sacrifices, yajña, for elevating oneself to the higher planetary system. They are called karmīs. "And above them," He says, "out of many thousands of karmīs, one person is jñānī or yogi. So out of many such jñānīs, one person may be a mukta, or liberated soul. And out of many thousands of liberated souls, there may be one devotee of Kṛṣṇa." That is the division Caitanya Mahāprabhu makes.

Therefore, to become a person Kṛṣṇa conscious, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, from the systematic way, it is very difficult. But by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa Himself, He has made the path very easy. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not very easy path. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

bhaktyā aham ekayā grāhyaḥ

śraddhayātmā priyaḥ satām

*bhaktiḥ punāti man*-niṣṭhā

*śva*-pākān api sambhavāt



*Simply by devotional service, one becomes purified even he is born in the family of the dog*-eaters. That is the Vedic version. Caitanya Mahāprabhu quotes from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ataeva bhakti kṛṣṇa prāptyera. Therefore He concludes that "If you want at all Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa... We should, everyone should want Kṛṣṇa. Because as soon as we get Kṛṣṇa... Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If actually we get Kṛṣṇa, then we shall not consider any other profit more valuable than Kṛṣṇa. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja went to practice yoga in the forest, Madhuvana. The idea was to get the kingdom of the father. Now, actually when he saw Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu... The picture is here. You can see. Actually when he saw by his severe austerities and penances..., a small boy, five-years-old boy, then he said, "My dear Lord, now when You offer benediction that 'You take whatever benediction you want, you take from Me,' " he said, svamin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. That is the process. If one gets Kṛṣṇa, he thinks that no more any other benediction is required. He becomes fully satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "I am fully satisfied." Therefore we find a Kṛṣṇa-bhakta is always satisfied because he has no demand.



In other place Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kṛṣṇa bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. So long you have got demands to fulfill your desires, you cannot be happy. Kṛṣṇa bhakta, kṛṣṇa bhakta has no demand. They do not demand that "Kṛṣṇa, favor me in this way or that way." No. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. They are completely free from demanding anything from Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa, pure devotee. Kṛṣṇa bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta. Therefore they are pacified, they are peaceful. And bhukti mukti siddhi kāmī sakali aśānta. Bhukti means these karmīs, they want elevated life of sense gratification, bhukti. That is called bhukti. From bhoga, bhukti. Bhukti or mukti, liberation. They are also not, I mean to say, peaceful because they are making sādhana, austerities, penances, to get liberation. There is demand, that "I shall be liberated." So there is demand. So the karmīs, they have also demand; the jñānīs, they have also demand; *and the yogis, they have also demand because they want siddhi, eight kinds of siddhis. Aṇimā, laghimā. A yogi can become very light. They can become the smallest. Such siddhis, such mystic powers, they can attain. So they have also demand. They are trying to get some material perfection. Just like flying in the sky or walking on the water*-these things are very wonderful, and people are very much amazed. If you can walk on the water, so many followers you will get immediately. That is a wonderful thing for common man.

So they yogis want these mystic powers. Therefore they have also demand. Muktis, the jñānīs, they have also demand; *the karmīs also have the demand. But the bhaktas... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the ideal bhakta. He's teaching us how to become exceptionally perfect devotee. So He says in His Śikṣāṣṭaka, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. "I do not want riches," na dhanam. Na janam, "I do not want number of followers." Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. "I do not want very beautiful, nice, poetic wife." Mama janmani janmanīśvare. Janmani janmani means He does not want even liberation, because when there is liberation, there is no question of janmani janmani. So He says, mama janmani janmani īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. So this is the sample of pure devotee. A pure devotee does not want even liberation. Dīyamānaṁ na gṛhṇanti. If liberation is offered to a devotee, he does not want it. He'll refuse to accept it. He is satisfied only in the service of the Lord. That is the standard of satisfac... Or in other words, to a devotee, liberation is not very valuable thing. Just like our one devotee, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī... No, Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. He says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa*-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Like that. So devotee's position is very sublime. Devotee's position is the most exalted, transcendental position of a pure devotee who does not want anything except Kṛṣṇa.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama

[Brs. 1.1.11]



That is...



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ataeva bhakti kṛṣṇa prāptyera. The conclusion is that if you want Kṛṣṇa, then you have to take the path of devotional service. That will help you. And that bhakti is technically known as abhidheya. That is the technical..., abhidheya. Abhidheya means discharging one's duty. That is abhidheya, or the performance of the means by which one can reach the ultimate goal of life. That is called abhidheya.

dhana pāile yaiche sukha bhoga phala pāya

*sukha*-bhoga haite duḥkha āpani palāya



*taiche bhakti*-phale kṛṣṇe prema upajaya

preme kṛṣṇāsvāda haile bhava nāśa pāya



*He says that "If a poor man gets some money, not only he becomes happy, but the symptoms of his poverty is also immediately vanquished." Just like a poor man gets, say, ten lakhs of rupees. Immediately he'll have a nice bungalow, he'll have two, three cars, and so many other opulences. So simultaneously, the distress out of his poverty*-stricken life is also vanquished, and there are symptoms of sukha, symptoms of happiness. We suppose like that. If a man has got a car, we think he's very happy. But this is a symptom of happiness. A poor man cannot get a car, but a rich man cannot get... If one has got a car, it is understood that he is rich man. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that automatically the symptoms of happiness come unto him, and his distress of material condition simultaneously becomes vanquished if one is elevated to the position of devotional service. That is the test. That is the test of how one is advanced in devotional service. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca [SB 11.2.42]. He is no more interested in material happiness. He is fully satisfied with Kṛṣṇa. Taiche bhakti-phale kṛṣṇe prema upajaya. Kṛṣṇa bhakti-phale. These, by the, as a result of kṛṣṇa-bhakti, devotional service... The same devotional service for the neophyte and the same devotional service for the advanced devotee, but the advanced devotee enjoys life, but the neophyte devotee simply practices. That is the difference. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives the example: just like mango. The mango remains the same, but in the unripe stage the taste is little different, whereas in the ripened stage the taste is different. So bhakti in the beginning maybe tastes a little pungent. One may feel very inconvenient to discharge devotional service according to the rules and regulations of the śāstra. But when he is advanced, the same service will appear to be very palatable, very relishable.



yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthite guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



*So devotional service... Because it is transcendental, pure, spiritual, and we are, every one of us, hankering after to be elevated to the spiritual stage of life because we are spiritual entities. The same example, as I have repeatedly explained, that if you take a fish out of the water, however you may keep comfortably on the land, it will never be happy unless and until it is again thrown in the water. Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. So however we may try to make ourself happy by material adjustment, it is not possible. We must turn to the spiritual life, or devotional... Spiritual life means devotional service. That is real spiritual life. As Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. "One who is engaged in bhakti-yoga service," sa guṇan samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26], "he's already in the Brahman stage." People cannot understand how bhakti is on the Brahman platform. But here the Lord Himself says, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate.



*dāridrya*-nāśa bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' nay

*prema*-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya



So when one is elevated in the platform of devotional service, it is not that he gets some material happiness, that is the result. No. Material happiness automatically comes to him. Material happiness..., a devotee is not bereft of material happiness. Automatically (it) comes to him.



So that is not the ultimate goal of a devotee's life. A devotee's ultimate goal of life: how he becomes, I mean to say, a lover of the Supreme Lord. The example are the gopīs, or the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. They had no other desire. They simply wanted to love Kṛṣṇa. They wanted to see Kṛṣṇa very happy. That feeling of happiness, that thinking of Kṛṣṇa, that is the highest perfection of life. Always, constantly thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That was their happiness. They did not try to derive any material happiness by loving Kṛṣṇa. There was no such thing. That is pure love.

*dāridrya*-nāśa bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' naya

*prema*-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya



So we should be trying for that position when we shall relish what is the position by loving Kṛṣṇa, by loving God.



veda-śāstre kahe sambandha abhidheya prayojana

*kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa*-bhakti prema-tina mahā-dhana



*Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu concludes again that we are after dhana. Dhana are riches. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that Kṛṣṇa and kṛṣṇa*-bhakti, devotional service, and love of Kṛṣṇa, these three items are the topmost riches of our life. Vedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṇa-bhakti, devotional service, and love of Kṛṣṇa, these three items are the topmost riches of our life.



*vedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṇa*-mukhya sambandha

*tāṅra jñāne ānuṣaṅge yāya māyā*-bandha



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu further says that the purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as one understands Kṛṣṇa, automatically the tinges of māyā, the influence of māyā, automatically becomes vanquished. That is also stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam..., er, Bhagavad-gītā, that,



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti (te)

[Bg. 7.14]



"It is very difficult to surmount the stringent laws of material nature, but anyone who surrenders unto Me, very easily, automatically, simultaneously he becomes freed from the contamination of māyā."



*mukhya*-gauṇa-vṛtti, kiṁvā anvaya vyatireke

vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Directly or indirectly, whichever Vedic literature you study, you'll find that the aim is to understand Kṛṣṇa." When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was speaking, He proved that in the Koran there is kṛṣṇa*-bhakti. When He was coming back from Vṛndāvana, at a place... It is known as Soro. Perhaps you know, Soro. That is a holy place, Soro. Still, people go there. There is a nice place, Soro. So there Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was chanting and dancing, He sometimes fainted. So in the course of His chanting and dancing, when He fainted, then His personal assistants, they were treating Him. So one batch of soldiers, Moghul, Pathan soldiers, were passing that way. So the chief of the soldiers, of the army, they were surprised that "How is that? One man is lying unconscious, and others are treating him. This must have been, this man must have been poisoned by these men." So they came down, because they were government men, they came down and challenged all these men that "You have given this man some drug so that he's fainted, and you wanted to plunder him. So we arrest you." Then they said, "No, sir. We have not done anything such. He faints like that while chanting. Now He'll be... Very soon He'll get up, because we are also chanting. Hearing, hearing, He will get up." So in this way, when He came to His consciousness, the Muslims, these Pathan soldiers, they were very happy to see Him. So there was a Mullah. So he talked with Him. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu... I am summarizing the story; *this story is very big. He talked with that Mullah, and He proved from the Koran that there is kṛṣṇa*-bhakti. He proved from the Koran that there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti, there is hint of kṛṣṇa-bhakti. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says here also that indirectly... When I speak of Kṛṣṇa, you should know, Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You may call Him by any other name; that is a different thing. But Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,



*mukhya*-gauṇa-vṛtti kiṁvā anvaya vyatireke

vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake



You take any literature, any Vedic literature, religious literature, you'll find that the whole literature, whole knowledge is aiming at Kṛṣṇa. That is the purport of all *Vedas* and religious scripture.



*kṛṣṇera svarūpa*-ananta vaibhava-apāra

*cic*-chakti māyā-śakti jīva-śakti āra



*Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is explaining what is the identification of Kṛṣṇa. In the beginning He says, kṛṣṇera svarūpa ananta. Kṛṣṇa has form, svarūpa. Kṛṣṇa is not formless, but He has got many millions of forms. Not one form, many millions of forms. But He has form. He is not impersonal. Kṛṣṇera svarūpa ananta. Ananta means unlimited. That is also confirmed in the Brahma*-saṁhitā:



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*The Brahma*-saṁhitā says that advaita acyuta. Advaita means although Kṛṣṇa has many forms, many expansions, still, they are one. There is no duality. Just like Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, They are one. They are not different. Similarly, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Beginning from Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, He has got innumerable forms. Tiṣṭhan: He is existing always with all these forms, expansions, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā. Just like Kṛṣṇa existing in everyone's heart. There are millions and trillions of living entities. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa is existing. That is Kṛṣṇa's omnipotency. If you do not try to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa, with inconceivable omnipotency, then you cannot understand God. That is not possible. So Kṛṣṇa... Just like we are sitting here; *we are not sitting in the other room. But Kṛṣṇa can see in innumerable rooms simultaneously at one time. Therefore He is all*-pervading. Just like Kṛṣṇa married 16,108 wives. Nārada came to see Kṛṣṇa, and every palace he entered he saw Kṛṣṇa was there. And with some wife, in some wife's palace He is playing with children, or some wife's He's just taking bath. In another palace He was playing chess. In this way he differently saw Kṛṣṇa in different palaces. So in 16,000 palaces he saw Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Not that He married 16,000 wives, but He remained one. He also expanded Himself sixteen hundred times. That is Kṛṣṇa. He can expand Himself. Rāsa-līlā... Rāsa-līlā, every gopī was feeling that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing with me." So many gopīs. That is Kṛṣṇa. He can expand. But He has got form. He is not formless. The Māyāvādī philosopher thinks because Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading, therefore He has no form. No. That is not fact. He has form, but His form is not like your form and my form. This form is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Acyuta. And He does not fall down. Acyuta means thing which does not fall down. So just like we are, we are living entities, we fall down in the clutches of māyā. But Kṛṣṇa does not fall down. The Māyāvādī philosophers mistake that. They think that as we come to this material world with a material body, similarly, Kṛṣṇa also comes with a material body. No. That is not the fact. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Mūḍha. Mūḍha means those who are not intelligent. "They think that I am also ordinary man." Therefore there is controversy, "Why I shall worship Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa cannot... The Supreme Lord cannot come in this way, just like ordinary man, and making friendship with Arjuna and driving his chariot, or dancing with the gopīs." They cannot conceive. They cannot accommodate within their tiny brain that Kṛṣṇa is so powerful. He's so... We say that Kṛṣṇa, God is all-powerful, God is all omnipotent, but when God shows actually that He's omnipotent, all-powerful, they do not believe. That is their defect. But the manifestation which Kṛṣṇa showed when He was actually present, He's the Supreme Lord.



aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



He fully manifested, or demonstrated, the six opulences of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no other supreme power or supreme personality than Myself."



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the same thing. What Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, what is spoken about Kṛṣṇa in all the Vedic literature, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the same thing in His teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī. So we shall discuss further.

Thank you very much.

Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: What is that? Mecca?



Guest: (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: As have got pilgrimage, everyone has got pilgrimage. Muslims have got, Christians they have got, Hindus they have got. That means they go to pilgrimage with God consciousness. So in Koran there is God consciousness, in Bible there is God consciousness, in Vedas God consciousness. Now you have to utilize it, develop it. The aim and objective is already there. But in the Vedic literature they are very explicitly presented. That is the difference. The Christians, they agree, "God is great." We also agree, "God is great." But how God is great, that is explained in the Vedic literature. That is the difference between... There is no difference of opinion if one is actually religious. God created this world, God is the supreme father, God is great. This is accepted by everyone, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian. There is no doubt about it. But in the Vedic literature you'll understand how God is great, how He is acting as father. That's all. Even God's name is there, God's address is there. Do you agree to this point? Yes, that is the difference. Any other scriptures, if you ask what is the name of God, what is His address, what He is doing, they cannot give you. But we can give. We do not give; *God Himself gives, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "My address is like this." What is that? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. That is address. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. God is giving address. We have to note down. And His name is Kṛṣṇa. You'll find Vyāsadeva is writing śrī bhagavān uvāca, "the Supreme Personality of Godhead speaking, or Kṛṣṇa." And in the śāstras there is list of incarnation of God. And Vyāsadeva concludes: ete cāṁśa kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "All the list, comprehending list, they are either part or part of the part of God. But the name Kṛṣṇa," kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, "He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Similarly, in the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said,



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. And Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ kiñcid asti, kiñcid asti dhanañjaya. "There is no more." Everyone is cause. You are... You are... Your cause for appearance is your father. The cause of your father's appearance is his father. You go on-father, father, father, father*-you reach Brahmā, who is called the supreme forefather. Then Brahmā is also born of Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And the Garbhodakaśayī is also appeared from Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. In this way, go on, go on. And Saṅkarṣaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha-there are so many. And at last you reach Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes.



*So Kṛṣṇa's name is there, God's name is there, God's address is there, and how to reach God, the process is there. Then why you'll not utilize this? What is the reason? Why you say, "Can you show me God? Is there any God?" Why do you say like this? What is the reason? Everything, information, is there, and still you say, "Can you show me God? Who is God? There is no God. God is dead." Why do you talk like that? If you say that "How we can understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord?" then you have to approach authorities. Just like if you want to purchase some diamonds, you cannot understand whether it is diamond, but you go to a jeweler and he'll say yes or no. "Yes, it is real." So you have to go to the authorities. Who are the authorities? At least, in our country. Not only in... All countries. So our authorities, the whole Vedic civilization is going on under the authorities of ācāryas. They are coming by disciplic succession. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya*-there are so many authorized ācāryas. The śāstra is there, the authoritative statement is there, and the activities are there. Then what reason you have got not to believe that Kṛṣṇa is not God? What reason you have got? Here is God. And those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, actually see their life, how they are advanced in God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

But the difficulty is, as Kṛṣṇa says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*The duṣkṛtinaḥ, the miscreants, those who are always engaged in mischievous activities... Such persons are called duṣkṛtina. So duṣkṛtina class, na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā. Mūḍha means less intelligent or foolish class men. Na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā prapadyante. "They do not accept Me," narādhama, "the lowest of the mankind." "No, they have got very much educated." Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā. "Yes, they are educated, but their knowledge has been taken away by māyā." Why? Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. "Because they have taken to this view, 'There is no God.' " On this account they cannot understand in spite of high degrees of university education. Māyāyapahrta-jñāna. So Kṛṣṇa says like that. The only reason is because duṣkṛtina mūḍhā māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuri-bhāvam... Therefore, in spite of all evidences from the śāstras, they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead. That's it. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja requested his father so many times, but still, he did not agree that there is God. [break] But he agreed there is God when he was killed by God. Yes. That you cannot escape. Then you'll see God: "Here is God." The asuras, they'll never accept God, but when they are killed by God, they understand that "Yes, there is God." That is the difference between asuras and devas. The devas, they accept God while living, and the asuras accept God by being killed. That's all. And who can escape killing? Is there any scientist, is there any philosopher, any great man who can stop being killed by the cruel death? Is there any man? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. "I am mṛtyu." Mṛtyu means death, which takes away everything at a time. Just like "I am very rich man," "I am very big industrialist," "I am prime minister," this, that, so many things. "I am in possession of all I survey. I am the master of my country and everything." That's all right. As soon as death comes, "Oh, I am Jawaharlal Nehru," "I am Gandhi," "Oh! Never mind! Please go away! Finish Stop your all leadership." That is God. You don't believe, you may not believe God, but when death comes you have to believe in God. Let the scientists and let the big leaders and rich men protect himself from death. Then you can say that there is no God. [break] This atheism, denying the existence of God, is not very good. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important. (pause) Prasāda, you have given prasāda? I'll take first of all... (end)





661130CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.142

-

New York, November 30, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*dāridrya*-nāśa, bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' naya

*prema*-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya



So by devotional service one should not expect, "My miserable material condition may be improved" or "I may be liberated from this material entanglement." So that is also a kind of sense gratification. If I want that "Let me be free from this entanglement..." Just like the yogis and the jñānīs, they try. They try to be free from this material entanglement. But in the devotional service there is no such desire, because it is pure love. There is no expectation that "I shall be profited in this way." No. It is not a profitable commercial business, that "Unless I get in return something, oh, I shall not practice the devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no question of profit. Lord Caitanya prays to the Lord like this:



na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



*"Oh," He says, "My dear Lord, Jagadisa..." Jagadisa means the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Jagat, jagat means this world, material world or spiritual world, all worlds. Jagat. Jagat gacchati iti jagat: "Which is progressing, that is called jagat." So Jagat-īśa, the supreme master of this jagat, going concern. "Jagadīśa, O the supreme master of this jagat, I pray unto You that I do not want," na dhanam, "I do not want any wealth," na janam, "I do not want any number of followers..." Na janaṁ na dhanaṁ na kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. Kavitām means very nice wife, poetical... "I do not want." "Then what do You want?" Mama janmani janmanīśvare. Janmani janmani [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4] means "birth after birth." So He does not want liberation also. Because when we speak of liberation, there is no birth. Mad*-gatvā punar janma na vidyate: "One who reaches the kingdom of God, he hasn't got to come back again to take birth here." So here Lord Caitanya says, mama janmani janmani: "Birth after birth." That means "I do not want liberation also." Mama janmani janmani.



*"Then what do You want?" Īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī: "My dear Lord, I may be put in any condition of My life, but please bestow this benediction, that I may not forget You. That's all. I may not forget You. Because due to My forgetfulness I am suffering so much. So if I can remember You, I don't mind in whatever condition I am." He has to give the factual fact. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. In the Bhagavad*-gītā in the Sixth Chapter we find in the yoga system, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ: "When one achieves that perfection of yoga," yaṁ labdhvā, "by gaining that perfection," yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham, "then he has no other desire to achieve." Just like we achieve something in this material world, but that does not stop our desire to achieve something more. I may achieve millions of dollars, but that does not make me satisfied. I want further ten millions of dollars. And when I get further ten millions of dollars, then I desire for further hundred millions of dollars. There is no cessation. So here is a thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One who is perfect in that system, bhakti-yoga system, the Bhagavad-gītā says, yam labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ. Adhikam means "greater than this." We want, we desire something which is greater than what I possess now. Therefore I desire. I have got hundred millions dollars, and I want million millions of dollars, because that amount is greater than what I possess now. But one who possesses this devotional service, he does not think anything there is in the world which is more valuable than this. So why should he inquire? Why should he desire? He has got the sublime thing. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. Lābham means gain. Manyate na: "He does not think." Na. What is that? Adhikam. Adhikam means greater. If I have got two dollars' possession and if you offer me ten dollars, I think, "Oh, it is better." So he possesses such a thing that nothing is greater than because he possesses devotional service. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not different from Kṛṣṇa. So therefore he possesses Kṛṣṇa, and what thing can be greater than Kṛṣṇa? Therefore he is fully satisfied.

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



*"And one who is situated in that condition, then guruṇāpi duḥkhena, the severest type of miseries, offered to him, he is not shaken." He is steady. He is steady. Just like a five*-year-old boy, Prahlāda Mahārāja, and his father, atheist: "Oh, you rascal boy. You are chanting God's name? Who is God? I am God. Why don't you chant my name? If you don't do that, then I shall throw you in the fire." Oh, he is steady. He said, "Father, I cannot do that," this little boy. "You nonsense, you cannot do that? How do you dare to speak before me like this? Even the demigods, they are afraid of me." "Oh, yes, father. By the mercy of whom you are speaking so nicely, so by the mercy of Him I am speaking also like that." "Oh, I don't care for anyone's mercy." So this is... And so much wrath of his severe father, oh, he is not... Steady. Steady. So that is the characteristic of a pure devotee. Even in the greatest difficulty, even in the greatest danger, he is not shaken; he is steady. Yaṁ labdhvā. This is the perfection of yoga. When one is steady in every circumstances, that is the perfection of yoga. That can be achieved easily by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



So here also we should not be aspiring after improving our material condition or liberation or anything. These are all desire, desires. They say that "desireless," but desire cannot be completely absent because I am living entity. So my desire should be not to forget Kṛṣṇa. That's all, that one desire. That is real desire. And all other desires, they are foolish. So we cannot be desireless, but we should desire only bona fide. Just like I am part and parcel of the Supreme. So if I desire to work in cooperation with the Supreme, that is my natural position. That is desirelessness. If you... Suppose in this material condition, if you desire to eat, oh, that is natural. So long you have got this body, you have to eat. If somebody says, "Oh, you are desiring eating...?" Nobody says like that. Similarly, what is natural desire, that is permitted. And what is not natural, that is called "become desireless." Don't desire like this, unnatural. So desirelessness means not to desire unnatural thing. But to desire Kṛṣṇa's remembrance, that is natural. Because I am part and parcel, how can I forget? This forgetfulness is the cause of my so many desires. And as soon as I desire Kṛṣṇa, there will be no other desire. That is desirelessness.



*So prema*-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya. Prema-sukha. The happiness in the matter of our reciprocation as the whole and the part and parcel, that sense is the highest pleasure. That we should aspire after, not that by becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may desire some material profit. That is not.

veda-śāstre kahe sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana

*kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa*-bhakti, prema-tina mahā-dhana



Now, we are aspiring after possessing something, possessiveness. What we should possess? The possession is Kṛṣṇa, and desire is reciprocation between Kṛṣṇa and myself, and the ultimate end is love. That's all. Just like we have got perverted reflection of that love here between the two lovers. They don't want anything. He wants she, and she wants he. That's all. That is desire and their reciprocation of loving affairs and the ultimate end, that they are peaceful in love. This is only perverted reflection of the real love, which is reciprocated with Kṛṣṇa. Here there is no possibility of love. This is all lust. But we call it love because it is just a reflection. Just a real... That is real, and this is unreal. Just like shadow and reality. There is gulf of difference between the shadow and reality. So whatever love we see in this world, that love is only a perverted reflection of that real love with Kṛṣṇa.



*vedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṇa*-mukhya sambandha

*tāṅra jñāne ānuṣaṅge yāya māyā*-bandha



So a devotee is not anxious for liberation because his intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa means he is liberated. One cannot be in intimate touch with Kṛṣṇa unless one is liberated. So liberation and intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa, the same thing.



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*Yeṣām... Have you got Bhagavad*-gītā here? Yes. Just try to find out this śloka. I don't remember where it is. I think in the Eighth Chapter.



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*Yeṣām. Yeṣām means those who are anta*-gataṁ pāpam. Pāpam means sinful reactions. One who has surpassed all sinful reactions. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām. Such persons, puṇya-karmāṇam, who have done never any sinful action but always engaged in the matter of pious activities, puṇya-karmāṇam, such persons can only devote himself fully in the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa. (aside:) Have you got it? What is that?



Devotee: "But those men of virtuous deeds whose sin has come to an end, freed from the delusion of dualities, worship Me, steadfastly avowed."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So to worship Kṛṣṇa steadfast means he is liberated from delusion. That is mukti. One who has got still some doubt-"Why shall I worship Kṛṣṇa?"*-that means still in delusion, and still the reaction of his sinful life is not finished. A slight doubt means there is slight tinge still. And one who is dvandva-moha-nirmuktā, duality... Duality means "Whether I shall do it or not? Whether I shall stick up to this process of Kṛṣṇa conscious or not?" This is called duality. So one who is free from all these sinful reactions, he has no more duality. He has firm faith: "Yes! Kṛṣṇa worship is the final."



*So Kṛṣṇa worship means he is liberated already. Just like the same example: If a man is sitting on the high*-court bench, it is to be understood that he has passed all educational qualification, and he is a good lawyer. Therefore... There is no more necessity to ask, "Whether you have passed M.A. examination or law examination?" This is foolishness. Similarly, if one is, I mean to say, strictly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is to be understood that he is liberated. Liberation, the definition of liberation, is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, mukti..., svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Hitvā... Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpam. Now we are now represented in different kinds of formalities. You have got a different kinds of idea; I have got different kinds of idea; another man has different from others. There are difference; therefore we are clashing each other. This is the sign of bondage. And mukti means when we are liberated from these different kinds of ideas, and svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ, when we are situated in our constitutional position, that is called mukti, liberation. And what is our constitutional position? "Oh, I am the part and parcel of the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa." Then what is my duty? Duty, part's duty, is to serve the whole. That's all. Just like your hand, the part of your body. What is the duty of hand? To serve the body. It is very easy thing. If you are part and parcel of the Supreme, then what is your duty? Your duty is to serve Him. You have no other duty.

So one who understands this firmly and convincingly, he is liberated. He is liberated. Oh, how can I say liberated? "He is also now going to the office. He is dressing like ordinary man. What do you mean?" Mukti means he will dress like something else or he will have four hands or eight legs? No. Simply change of consciousness, that's all. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means change of your consciousness. I am thinking, "I am this matter. I have got so many duties with this material world." So when you change this consciousness-"No, I belong to Kṛṣṇa. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore whole energy should be for Kṛṣṇa," this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now I am applying all my energy to this material conception of life. When you apply your energy, your transcendental energy, to Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated.

*Therefore a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, they are not hankering after Kṛṣṇa..., mukti. They say, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: "Oh, the mukti lady is standing with folded hands, 'My dear sir, what can I do for you?' " And devotee doesn't care. "Oh, what can I (you) do for me? I don't want your help." There is a nice verse of Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. He lived for seven hundred years in Vṛndāvana, and he was, became a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. In the beginning he was an impersonalist. His life is very nice. It is better to cite his life. He was a South Indian brāhmaṇa, a very rich man and very much sensuous. He kept one prostitute, prostitute. So he was so much, I mean to say, devoted to the prostitute that he was performing his father's death ceremony and he was asking the priest, "Please, haste. Please make haste. I have to go. I have to go." Means prostitute's house. So he was very rich man. Priestly, anyway, he finished that business. Then there was ceremony. He took very nice foodstuff in a bag, and he was going to that prostitute's house. But when he came out of his home, oh, it was raining torrently. You see? So he never cared for that raining. He went to the riverside. Oh, there was no boat, and it was, river was waving. The waves were very furious. And he thought that "How can I go to the other side?" He was daily going to the other side of the river. Then, anyway, he swimmed over, crossed over by swimming. Then the prostitute thought, "Oh, it is today raining, and he may not come." So he (she) blocked the door and went to sleep. And when he came to the house he saw, "Oh, the door is blocked," and it was raining still. "So how can I go?" So he crossed over the wall by catching one snake. Just see how much intensely he was attached. And he went to the prostitute, and she was astonished: "Well, Bilvamaṅgala"*-his name was Bilvamaṅgala-"how do you dare to come here like this?" Oh, he described, "Yes. I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this." Oh, the prostitute was astonished. Her name was Cintāmaṇi. So the prostitute said, "My dear Bilvamaṅgala, if you have got so intense love for me, oh, had it been for God, for Kṛṣṇa, how would have been, your life, sublime." Oh, that struck him: "Yes." He at once left and went away: "Yes, you are right."

Then he was (going to) Vṛndāvana. He saw another beautiful woman because he was practiced to that habit. So he was going behind. Although he determined, "Now I am going to Vṛndāvana," on the way he was again attracted by another woman. So he followed that woman. That woman belonged to a respectable family. So he came, and the woman said to her husband, "Oh, this man is following me. Please ask, 'What is the idea?' " So the husband asked, "My dear sir, you appear to be very nice gentleman, and you belong to very aristocratic family. From your appearances I understand. What do you want? Why you are following my wife?" He said, "Yes, I am following wife because I want to embrace her." "Oh, you want to embrace? Come on. Embrace. Come on. You are welcome. Come on." So the wife also... She (he) ordered, "Oh, here is a guest. He wants to embrace you and kiss you. So please decorate yourself nicely so that he may enjoy." So the wife also followed the instruction of the husband because wife's duty is to follow the instruction. And when Bilvamaṅgala came inside before the woman, he said, "My dear mother, will you kindly give your hairpins?" "Yes. Why?" "I have got some business." Then he took the hairpin and at once pierced his eyes: "Oh, this eye is my enemy." And he became blind. He became blind. Then all of them... "That's all right. Now no more I shall be disturbed."

*So in that blindness he was penancing, austerity in Vṛndāvana. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa came like a boy. "Oh, my dear sir, why you are starving? Why don't you take some milk?" "Oh, who are You, my dear boy?" "Oh, I am a boy of this village. I am a cowherd boy. If you like, I can give you daily some milk." "All right." So Kṛṣṇa supplied him milk. So there was friendship. And he has written that bhakti is such a thing that muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: "Mukti, mukti is nothing for me." So this is his verse, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: "So we have no desire for mukti. When Kṛṣṇa comes to supply milk, oh, then what is the use of my mukti?" You see? That's a great soul, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. It is worth to remember his name. For seven hundred hears he lived in Vṛndāvana, and he has written a nice book which is Kṛṣṇa*-karṇāmṛta. That is a very authoritative book, Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta. Lord Caitanya picked up this book, and He recommended all His devotees to read that Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta book.

Thank you very much.

Kīrtanānanda: Do you have it here?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Kīrtanānanda: Is it in English? (end)





661201CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.144-146

-

New York, December 1, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*vedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṇa*-mukhya sambandha

*tāṅra jñāne ānuṣaṅge yāya māyā*-bandha



*Lord Caitanya, summarizing the purport of the Vedic knowledge... He says that vedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṇa-mukhya sambandha. All the Vedas, all the Vedic literature, all scriptures, all over the world, all over the universe*-what is meant? What is the purpose of the scripture? The purpose is to understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all. He is summarizing the whole thing, that "All purposes of different types of scriptures, Vedas, they are meant for realizing what is Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Tāṅra jñāne ānuṣaṅge yāya māyā-bandha. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one becomes automatically liberated from this material entanglement. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person hasn't got to make separate endeavor and attempt to become liberated. The more you understand Kṛṣṇa, the more you become liberated, ānuṣaṅge, as a by-product. (coughing) Just see how material entanglement, this body. At any moment, at any moment you can be finished. You cannot be finished, but your all activities is. Therefore we should be very careful because we have to pull on with this body. Because unless you are perfectly in understanding of Kṛṣṇa, there is no release from this body. It is not that "I want to get release myself from this body; therefore I cut my throat and I get relief." No. That is not possible. You have to be completely detached from this body, and that can be possible when you come..., (coughing) when you understand at least something about Kṛṣṇa. You cannot know Kṛṣṇa completely. That is not possible. He is unlimited. But even a little knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, preliminary knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, will make you liberated from this material entanglement. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so valuable that even little progress will make you liberated from this material entanglement.



He is citing another nice verse from *Padma Purāṇa*. There are eighteen *Purāṇas*. Out of that, this *Padma Purāṇa* is one of the most important *Purāṇas*.

vyāmohāya carācarasya jagatas te purāṇāgamās

tāṁ tām eva hi devatāṁ paramikāṁ jalpantu kalpāvadhi

siddhānte punar eka eva bhagavān viṣṇuḥ samastāgama-

*vyāpāreṣu vivecana*-vyatikaraṁ nīteṣu niścīyate



In different *Purāṇas*... These *Purāṇas* are made just to complete Vedic knowledge, or supplementary addition to the Vedic literature. Because Vedic literature is very difficult to understand, therefore they have been expanded by the *Purāṇas* for different classes of men. So there are three divisions of the *Purāṇas*: sattvika Purāṇa, rājasika Purāṇa and tamasika Purāṇa. Sattvika Purāṇa is meant for the higher class of people who are in transcendental knowledge of Brahman, Paramātmā and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Rājasika Purāṇa are meant for those who are aspiring to have improvement of material condition. And tamasika Purāṇa are meant for those who are in the lowest stage of..., little, just like animal life, and to develop them the Purāṇa is helping them to come to the second and first stage.



*So in the Purāṇas there are worship of different demigods. Just like in the tamasika Purāṇa there is description of the worship of goddess Kālī. You have seen perhaps the picture of goddess Kālī, a black female standing with sword and cutting the heads of so many people like that, that picture, goddess Kālī. And animal sacrifice is offered before goddess Kālī. So such kind of worship is mentioned in the tamasika Purāṇa. The purpose of such worship and demigods, several times I have explained to you. So Padma Purāṇa is a sattvika Purāṇa, for men who are in the modes of goodness. So here it said that although in the different Purāṇas there are recommendations for worshiping different kinds of demigods, but at the conclusion it is found that Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord, He is all in all, all in all. Just like... You have not seen in India. Even there is worship of any other demigod, just like Durgā*-pūjā, so even in that paraphernalia of gorgeous worshiping arrangement, when the worship will begin, the first worship is offered to Viṣṇu, Yajñeśvara, because, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ: [Bg. 7.20] "Those who are mad after material sense gratification, they go and worship other demigods to have some immediate reward." And they get it. But how they get it? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayaiva vihitān hi tān: "They cannot have that reward without My sanction." Because the demigods, they are also subordinate servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; therefore the demigods, although they can give you the reward which you want, but with the permission of the Supreme Lord... Because they are not fools. If somebody, some of you, somebody comes, outsider, and asks from this institution, our Society, that "Please give me this," so you can deliver it, but you will take permission from me. That is a common custom. Similarly, the demigods also, they cannot offer their reward without sanction of Viṣṇu. Mayaiva vihitān hi tān. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām [Bg. 7.23]. Therefore Viṣṇu is present there. He... In the midst of worshiping other demigods, Viṣṇu is presented, and that is the system of Vedic process. So therefore Viṣṇu is Supreme. Why Viṣṇu's sanction is required? Therefore it is understood, although in different Purāṇas different types of worship for different types of demigods are recommended, but the ultimate sanction is of Viṣṇu. Therefore Viṣṇu becomes supreme.

*So from this verse, Lord Caitanya wants to impress upon us that "Don't be misguided for worshiping different demigods. The ultimate issue*-the Viṣṇu is worshipable." Ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param. Even in the Śiva Purāṇa it is stated that Pārvatī, the wife of Lord Śiva, she was asking Lord Śiva that "Sir, worship... Which worship is the best?" There are different kinds of worship mentioned in the Vedic literatures. So Lord Śiva replied, ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param: "There are different kinds of worship, but the best and the supreme worship is worship of Viṣṇu." Then again he gives more stress, ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param, tasmāt parataraṁ devī tadīyānām ārādhanam: "And more than Viṣṇu worship is to worship devotee of Viṣṇu." Tasmāt parataraṁ. Viṣṇu ārādhanam is the best. And better than the best worship is to worship the devotees of Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇavas. This is recommended in the Śiva Purāṇa.

So Lord Caitanya making an analytical study of the Vedic literature, and He is giving His conclusion. This is called mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footprints of great ācāryas. Lord Caitanya is playing the part of an ācārya; *so His conclusion should be taken. Lord Kṛṣṇa said also that kāmais tais tair hṛta*-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ: [Bg. 7.20] "Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are mad after sense gratification." Oh, that means they are third-class men. Those who are mad after sense gratification, they are not considered first-class men because they are not transcendentalists; *they are materialists, just like animals. They do not know anything. Simply sense gratification-āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna: eating, sleeping, mating and defending*-that is their business. So those who are engrossed in the matter of sense gratification only, they are not in higher position. Therefore hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ means those who have lost their sense. For sense gratification they have lost their sense. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. So Lord Caitanya wants to say that "Don't be hṛta-jñānāḥ. Don't be hṛta-jñānāḥ, or senseless. Be," I mean to say, "senseful."

*mukhya*-gauṇa-vṛtti, kiṁvā anvaya-vyatireke

vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake



*In any way you study Vedas-directly, indirectly, this way or that way*-the conclusion is that the objective is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya says. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also we get the same information. You will find in the teachings of Lord Caitanya, the same thing as in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is the beauty of teachings of all ācāryas, that you won't find any deviation from the teachings of Kṛṣṇa and the teachings of ācāryas. Therefore it is said, ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who has the guidance of a bona fide ācārya, he knows things. He knows things, what it is." Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who is under the guidance of bona fide ācārya, he knows things, what they are."



*So Kṛṣṇa also, as spiritual master of Arjuna, He played. He is the original ācārya. Then ācārya's disciple becomes ācārya when he assimilates the knowledge received from bona fide ācārya. So he becomes bona fide to act as an ācārya. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. Ācārya means one who has become a rigid disciple of his ācārya. Just like a critical student under a professor, he becomes a first-class professor, similarly, a person who is a very rigid student of bona fide ācārya, he becomes next ācārya. That is the... Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam. This is the disciplic succession. So as in the Bhagavad-gītā five thousand years before Lord Kṛṣṇa said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam: [Bg. 15.15] "The purpose of all Vedic literatures, the conclusion, is that, to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa..." By understanding Kṛṣṇa, immediate liberation... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



Anyone who can understand critically and in truth about the appearance, disappearance, activities, transcendental activities, pastimes, of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, at once he becomes liberated. Tyaktvā deham: "This person who has known like that," tyaktvā dehaṁ, "by quitting this body," punar janma naiti, "he never... No more he takes another material body." Then what does he do? Mām eti: "He comes to Me."



So simply by understanding what is Kṛṣṇa, one becomes liberated. Vedas, knowledge of Vedas, means to become liberated. The knowledge of Vedas is set in such a way that they are directing that "You have come here to enjoy this material world, so you try to enjoy in this systematic way." Just like government gives you facility. You want to do some business; *the government gives you all facility, but under certain rules and regulations, not that whatever you like, you can do. No. You have to get license to do any sort of business. Even if you do any nonsense, still, you have to follow the rules and regulation of the government. So Vedas means that we conditioned souls who have come here in this material world to become an imitation Kṛṣṇa, enjoyer... Because Kṛṣṇa is enjoyer, and we are all here imitation enjoyers, imitation... Frogs. Frog's philosophy. So Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He has given you all facility: "All right, you enjoy. You build up. You construct skyscrapers and again break it and again do it. Do it and waste your time." So He gives us facility. He supplies us materials: "All right, you take material." Because He has no scarcity, pūrṇam, He is complete, so whatever you go on taking, you take, you build and break and keep it again. Dig earth and make high buildings, and again break it and fill it up. This is your business. Go on doing that and waste your valuable time. Your life is meant for realizing your self, self*-realization, and get out of this material entanglement. But if you want to waste in that way, well, Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. Waste. This is going on. Therefore Vedas, they give you instruction, "All right, you want to enjoy? Just try to enjoy this way, so that by following the Vedic principles you will come to this stage of liberation." And what is that? Knowing Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. By study of Vedas, when you come to that conclusion, that Kṛṣṇa is everything, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is everything," sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "That great soul is very rare."

So similarly, as Kṛṣṇa says, this is called disciplic succession. Lord Caitanya, although He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He has accepted the disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa... I have given you the process of disciplic succession: from Kṛṣṇa, Brahmā; from Brahmā, Nārada; from Nārada, Vyāsa; from Vyāsa, Madhva; from Madhva, Mādhavendra Purī; from Mādhavendra Purī, Īśvara Purī; from Īśvara Purī, Lord Caitanya. So evaṁ paramparā. So in the paramparā system in that disciplic succession, you will find no change. The original word is there. That is the thing. They are not foolish to manufacture something new. What new? People are after something new manufactured by this tiny brain. What new you can manufacture? That is all nonsense. If you want really thing, then you have to take the old, the oldest. You cannot change anything. Can you change any law of the sun rising or sun setting? The old laws, they are going on, and you have to follow. So you cannot manufacture anything. The same seasons are coming for millions of years. As there were system of change of season, that is going on. Millions of years before, the sunrise, sunset, was going on. That is... Millions of millions of years, the death was there. That is going on. And the birth was there. That is going on. And disease was there. That is going on. So what you can change? You are simply foolishly wasting your time. There is no possibility of changing the laws of nature. It is simply futile attempt. Therefore those who are sane people, they understand that this life is meant for not fighting with the material laws, which I cannot change. Better stop this nonsense and realize yourself, what you are, what is your duty, and what the human form of life is meant for. That is stated here, that you have to realize Kṛṣṇa. You have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your life's mission is fulfilled.

Thank you. (end)



661203CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.146-151

-

New York, December 3, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*mukhya*-gauṇa-vṛtti, kiṁvā anvaya-vyatireke

vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake



So Lord Caitanya says, "You study *Vedas* in any way, directly, indirectly. In whatever way you like you study *Vedas*, but the ultimate objective is Kṛṣṇa."



*Now, Caitanya, Lord Caitanya, is describing about the various forms of Kṛṣṇa. This is very important subject. How Kṛṣṇa is all*-pervading, He is describing.

*kṛṣṇera svarūpa*-ananta, vaibhava-apāra

*cic*-chakti, māyā-śakti, jīva-śakti āra



Kṛṣṇera svarūpa ananta. The transcendental forms of Kṛṣṇa, innumerable, vaibhava, and His opulence, that is also innumerable. Nobody can estimate. How many forms are there of Kṛṣṇa or how much opulent He is, nobody can estimate; *nobody can measure. This is inconceivable. The first proposition. Cic*-chakti māyā-śakti jīva-śakti āra. And His potencies are also unlimited, out of which, three potencies are generally accepted: cit-śakti, spiritual potency; material potency; *and marginal potency. These three potencies I have described many times. Cit-śakti, the spiritual potency, is a manifestation of the spiritual world, and material potency is a manifestation of this material world, and the marginal potency, we are, we living entities. We are marginal potency. Why it is marginal? Because although we belong to the spiritual potency, but we have got tendency to come into contact of this material potency. Therefore it is called marginal, "this way or that way." That a slight independence which is there in every living entity, he can use that, and he may select either to live in the spiritual potency or in the material potency. Therefore the living entities are called marginal potency. So parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Although the energies of the Supreme Lord are innumerable*-nobody can count or measure-but they are divided into three.



*vaikuṇṭha, brahmāṇḍa*-gaṇa-śakti-kārya haya

*svarūpa-śakti śakti-kāryera*-kṛṣṇa samāśraya



*Now, Lord Caitanya says, Vaikuṇṭha. Just like this universe is a jagad*-aṇḍa, is a big round ball, aṇḍa. Aṇḍa means egglike, just like egg is round. Therefore it is called brahmāṇḍa. It is a round ball. Every planet is round, and the universe is also round, and the Vaikuṇṭhas are also round, all round. Vaikuṇṭha, brahmāṇḍa-gaṇa-śakti-kārya haya. So all these universes, the universe which we experience... There are innumerable universes that we cannot see. We can see only one universe, and in one universe there are innumerable planets. Similarly, there are innumerable universes, and in each universe there are innumerable planets. This information we get from Brahma-saṁhitā.



*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*That brahmajyoti, in that brahmajyoti there are all these universes and Vaikuṇṭhas. All, they are resting in that brahmajyoti. Just like in the sunshine so many planets are resting, similarly, in the brahmajyoti, the personal shining of Lord Kṛṣṇa, in that shining which is called brahmajyoti, all the universes and Vaikuṇṭha planets or universes, they are all resting. And the universes, the material universes are only one*-fourths in quantity of the Vaikuṇṭha universes. All the universes taken together of this material world, it is only one-fourths in comparison to the other Vaikuṇṭha, or spiritual, universes. Vaikuṇṭha, brahmāṇḍa-gaṇa-śakti-kārya haya.



*Now, these universes and the brahmāṇḍas, or the Vaikuṇṭhas, they are manifestation of the energy of the Supreme Lord. God is all*-pervading. "God is all-pervading" does not mean God has lost His identification. This is the mistake of the impersonalists. "Because God is everywhere, God is all-pervading; *therefore there should not be any particular existence of God." This is impersonalism. But this is material thought. They do not study Vedic literature properly. In the Vedic literature it is said, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. Just like I have several times explained before you that in the spiritual absolute identity, one minus one equal to one and one plus one equal to one. So although innumerable energies are coming out of the supreme body of the Supreme Lord, still He is full. There is no loss of energy. Just like we can have some material example: the sun. We do not know for how many millions of years the sunshine and temperature is coming out of the sun planet, but still the sun is the same. There is no loss of temperature. So if in a material object this is possible, that in spite of distributing heat and light from the sun disk for millions and millions of years, the sun disk is still of the same temperature, there is no loss of temperature*-this is a material thing-so why in the spiritual body of the Supreme there will be any loss? This is a material idea, that "Because God has become all-pervading, therefore He has lost Himself." Why He should lose His identity? This is confirmed in the Vedic literature: pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evavaśiṣyate. If you take from the... He is so full that if you take the whole thing from Him, still, He is whole. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate.

*So as described here, kṛṣṇa svarūpa ananta vaibhava apāra. So although He is transmitting innumerable energies and although He is expanding Himself in innumerable forms, still, He is one. Still, He is the same and one. That is the spiritual conception, or absolute conception. Absolute is not relative. "Because something has being taken away, therefore it is something less"*-it is relative. It is not absolute. This idea is relative. I have got in my pocket ten dollars. So I have taken two dollars. Now it is eight dollars. This is relative truth. This is not absolute idea. Absolute idea is that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. Avaśiṣyate means the balance is still full. Whatever you may take, the balance is still.

daśame daśamaṁ lakṣyam

*āśritāśraya*-vigraham

*śrī*-kṛṣṇākhyaṁ paraṁ dhāma

*jagad*-dhāma namāmi tat



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there are twelve cantos. In the Tenth Canto the appearance of Kṛṣṇa and His activities are mentioned, in the Tenth Canto. And before Lord Kṛṣṇa's activities and life is mentioned, there are nine cantos. So why? Now, daśame daśamaṁ lakṣyam āśritāśraya-vigraham. Now, to understand Kṛṣṇa, we have to understand what is this creation, how this creation is going on, what are the activities, what are spiritual knowledge, what is philosophy, what is renunciation, what is liberation. All these things we have to learn very nicely. After learning these perfectly, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa. So in the nine cantos of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, all these different nine manifestation of His energies are described. If we can understand... Just like if we can study the sunshine, the energy of the sun, then we can estimate the value of sun: "Oh, what sort of temperature is there." So if you want to study God, if you want to know God, then you must first of all study His energies. God is all-pervading by His energy. You study. Just the scientists, what they are studying? They are studying a portion of the energy of God, only a portion of the energy of God. That is also not perfectly. So the energy is so vast and immense that one cannot study even the energy. Therefore those who are studying about God, after finishing the study of the energies, they are at a loss to understand how so much energy can be emanated from the person. Therefore they cannot conceive any personal idea of God. The energy is so vast and immense that they are bewildered in the energy. And how such great amount of energy can emanate from a person they cannot conceive, because they compare with their own energy. Because I am limited... I have got this body, I have got my personality, but my energies are limited. But we cannot understand that the Unlimited has got unlimited energy.



*So this impersonal idea of God is for the less intelligent person, not for the intelligent persons. Those who are, I mean to say, favored with poor fund of knowledge, they cannot conceive about the Personality of Godhead. Therefore we have to approach authorities just like Lord Caitanya. He is putting something before us. Even in Bhagavad*-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa also says that "I am person. I am person." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. And it is confirmed by Arjuna. What is that? Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. So the Bhagavad-gītā, the speaker of the Bhagavad-gītā, establishing Himself that "I am person," and the student of the Bhagavad-gītā, I mean to say, Arjuna, he is accepting, "Yes. You are person. I accept it." I do not know why these fools explain, from Bhagavad-gītā, impersonalism. Where is the chance of explaining impersonal about conception of God from Bhagavad-gītā? Now, how they can surpass the speaker and the student? The student is Arjuna. He is accepting that "You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And the speaker, Kṛṣṇa, He is also establishing Himself that "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Now, wherefrom these fools take impersonal idea, I do not know. How they can? There is no chance. But still, they will poke their nose in that way. It is very sorry plight. You see? They are simply misleading persons.

So God is person. God, so far Vedic literature is concerned, God is person and accepted by the ācāryas. We have to follow the ācāryas; *otherwise we cannot... Our own interpretation, our own tiny brain, cannot conceive. We have to follow. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. Śrī Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, and from Arjuna there are paramparā. There are disciplic succession. We have to follow that way. Now, here Lord Caitanya, although He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, still, He is in that paramparā, in that disciplic succession. He says that "In order to understand Kṛṣṇa, you have to study His energies. He is person. His energies are impersonal." In Śrīmad-Bhāgavata also it is said,

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*"The Absolute Truth, those who know about Absolute Truth, they say..." Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata describes about the Absolute, vadanti tat tattva-vidaḥ. Tattva-vidaḥ means "those who are in the knowledge about the Absolute Truth." Vadanti tat: "They describe that thing as Absolute Truth." What is that? Advaya-jñāna: "There is no duality of knowledge." That is Absolute Truth. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yad advaya-jñānam [SB 1.2.11]. Advaya-jñānam means just like you are Mr. such and such, and when you are not present, if I ask, "Mr. such and such, please help me this way." But you are not present; *you cannot help. Therefore it is duality. Your name and you, person*-duality. And advaya-jñāna means, nonduality means, the person and the name is the same. Otherwise what is the use of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare? Then in that way I can chant anyone's name? No. This Kṛṣṇa name and Kṛṣṇa is Absolute Truth, advaya-jñāna, nonduality. Nonduality.



*So vadanti tat tattva*-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam, brahmeti [SB 1.2.11]. That Absolute Truth is manifested in three phases. What is that? Brahman. Brahman is impersonal, Brahman conception. Then Paramātmā, localized conception. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām: [Bg. 18.61] "Īśvara, the Lord, is sitting in everyone's heart." This is Paramātmā conception. And Bhagavān. Bhagavān means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So Bhagavān, Paramātmā and Brahman, they are not different. Simply according to my realization, the different names are there, according to my different realization. Somebody is realizing only the impersonal manifestation, energies, and somebody is experiencing the... Because God is everywhere. So I experience this way; you experience in that way. Therefore the name, Absolute Truth, is differently named. Otherwise there is no difference. It is my realization. So we... If somebody argues, "The sunshine is sun," well, that can be accepted. Why not? Sunshine is sun. But if somebody says, "No, sunshine is not sun," that is also accepted because sunshine is not sun also. Somebody says that "Sunshine is sun." That is accepted. And somebody says, "Sunshine is not sun." That is also accepted because there is no difference between sun and the sunshine. Similarly... But by comparative study, one who is studying the sun as it is, he is studying everything or he knows everything. Similarly, one who knows Kṛṣṇa, he knows everything. He knows Paramātmā; he knows Brahman; he knows māyā and everything. Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. The Vedic literature says, "The understanding of that one is the understanding of everything."

*So Lord Caitanya says that in order to understand that one Kṛṣṇa, there are nine cantos in the Bhagavad*-gītā (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam). Yes. Daśamasya viśuddhaye. Unless we study these nine cantos perfectly, we cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa, because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*"Out of millions and millions persons, some persons are interested in self*-realization, not all." That we can see. Some of you... There are thousands and thousands of persons. Some of you are interested to understand this, so you kindly come here. Therefore manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of millions and millions persons, somebody becomes interested in self-realization." Then yatatām api siddhānām: [Bg. 7.3] "Now, out of those persons who are trying to realize self, out of such millions and millions persons, somebody may know what is God." So it is not very easy. But it is easy also. For whom? Who at once surrenders to God. Then God reveals to him. And one who does not surrender, oh, it is very difficult for him. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. You cannot find out God by simply reading and philosophizing all the scriptures and books. No. If you want to know God, then you must be in confidence. You must be a devotee, a lover of God. Then you can understand God. Otherwise it is not possible.



Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661205CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.152-154

-

New York, December 5, 1966



*Prabhupāda: So Lord Caitanya is describing about the personal feature of Lord Kṛṣṇa. The (im)personal feature of Lord Kṛṣṇa, as described in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is the manifestation of His material energy. Now the personal feature as described by Lord Caitanya in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, this is the description of His spiritual feature. We have already studied in the Bhagavad-gītā that the Lord has two distinctive features: material and spiritual, superior and inferior. Of course, for Him there is no superior or inferior. But for us, it is superior, inferior. We cannot say that because everything is emanation from the Supreme, therefore there is no superior or inferior. No. Superior, inferior, in relationship with the energy. Just like īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is situated in everyone's heart." So He is in the heart of a hog, of a dog, and the learned brāhmaṇa as well. For Him there is no such discrimination*-what is hog, what is dog, what is brāhmaṇa, what is good, what is bad-because He is Absolute. But here we have to distinguish between the hog and the dog, at least so far the material body is concerned.



So Lord Caitanya says,

*kṛṣṇera svarūpa*-vicāra śuna, sanātana

*advaya*-jñāna-tattva, vraje vrajendra-nandana



He is addressing Sanātana Gosvāmī. You'll remember that this chapter, "Instruction to Sanātana Gosvāmī," was begun when Sanātana Gosvāmī, after his retirement, approached the Lord at Benares and surrendered himself and asked Him, "What I am?" So under that question, He is describing his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa. The jīvātmā, the living entity, is eternally servitor of Kṛṣṇa, and one should understand the nature of his master so that his service attitude, his affection, may be more intimate. Suppose I am serving at a place. I am engaged in a service to a master, but I do not know how big is my master. But when I understand the influence and opulence and greatness of my master, I become more devoted: "Oh, my master is so great." So therefore simply knowing, "God is great, and I have got some relationship with God," that is not sufficient. You must know how much great He is. Of course, you cannot calculate, but as far as possible, you should know how great He is.



*So that greatness of Lord Kṛṣṇa is being described here by Lord Caitanya to His disciple, Sanātana Gosvāmī. Advaya*-jñāna-tattva, vraje vrajendra-nandana. Advaya-jñāna-tattva. Advaya-jñāna-tattva means He is Absolute. He is not relative. Here everything is relative, but God means He is Absolute. He has nothing to be dependent. Here everything, we are all dependent. To understand something, to understand light, we have to understand darkness. To understand good, we have to understand what is bad. So here it is everything duality. So Kṛṣṇa is Absolute. That is the first understanding, that there is no duality. Kṛṣṇa, His name, His fame, His pastimes, His quality, His association, associates-everything is one. One plus one equal to one, always remember. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name. That is Absolute. We have got here experience that the thing and the name of the thing, they are different, dual. Suppose here is a glass of water. I am thirsty. I want glass of water. But if I say "water, water, water, water," that will not quench my thirst. I must have the thing, water, and then it will be acting. But Kṛṣṇa is advaya-jñāna. So when we hear Kṛṣṇa's name, then we should understand that "Kṛṣṇa is before me in His sound vibration. He is present before me in sound because He is everything." Why sound (is) not Kṛṣṇa? If He is everything, sound is also Kṛṣṇa.

*So this is called advaya*-jñāna. Similarly, when we read Bhagavad-gītā, that is also Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we should pay respect. When we enter into the temple of Kṛṣṇa, it should be understood that we are in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Everything in relationship is Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest... Therefore the devotees who are in the higher conception of Kṛṣṇa consciousness sees nothing before him save and except Kṛṣṇa. That is not to be imitated, but the stage, in the higher stage, the devotee sees nothing but Kṛṣṇa. Sarvatra sphūraya tāṅra iṣṭa-deva mūrti. Everything in relation to Kṛṣṇa. Matter is energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore energy and the energetic, not being different, so even in the material world he sees Kṛṣṇa. So for him, there is no matter, everything spiritual. Advaya-jñāna. There is no matter at all. Just like in Kṛṣṇa, he has no distinction what is matter, what is spirit, but in our conditioned stage we have got superior, inferior conception. But when we are also in the higher stage of the Absolute Truth, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54], when we are actually in such pure devotional service in Kṛṣṇa, then we will see that everything is Kṛṣṇa. For example, just like we take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, we respect prasādam. We offer obeisances before taking prasādam. Why? Because the prasādam is also Kṛṣṇa. So by taking prasādam, I am contacting Kṛṣṇa. By hearing Kṛṣṇa, I am contacting Kṛṣṇa. By working for Kṛṣṇa, I am contacting Kṛṣṇa. This is called Absolute.

*So Lord Caitanya says, kṛṣṇa advaya*-jñāna-tattva. He is Absolute Truth. Vraje vrajendra-nandana. And the abode which is called Kṛṣṇaloka, Vṛndāvana... He is just like the boy of... Vrajendra-nandana. He has got His devotee as father and mother. He is just like a boy, sixteen-years-old boy, Vrajendra-nandana. That is the real feature of Kṛṣṇa. You will never find Kṛṣṇa as very old man. No. Kṛṣṇa's real feature of body, not this body, His transcendental body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], with a flute in the hand, He looks just like a fresh sixteen-years-old boy, always freshness. Kiśora. Kiśora means, kiśora age is from ten years to sixteen years. And after sixteenth year, one begins his youth. So Kṛṣṇa is always in His kiśora avasthā. Kiśora avasthā means He will appear just like boy, a fifteen-, sixteen-years-old boy, Vrajendra-nandana. But at the same time, sarva-ādi: He is the original. Everything, whatever you see, either in the material world or spiritual world, He is the origin. So He is the oldest. He is the oldest, but you will see Him as youngest. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. In the Brahma-saṁhitā you will find description of Kṛṣṇa, advaita acyuta... Advaita means absolute. Acyuta means nonfallible, Brahman. He is Parambrahman. We are also Brahman, but we have fallen down. We have fallen down in this material condition. But Kṛṣṇa never falls down in material condition. When He appears before us, don't think that "He is also fallen soul like me." The fools consider like that. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. Mūḍhā means fools. The fools consider Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. Mānuṣīṁ paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. The fools do not know what is immense potency, background, of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa as like one of us.

*So here it is said, sarva-ādi. Sarva-ādi means the primal. Primal. And sarva*-aṁśī. Sarva-aṁśī means He is the original thing, and everything is part. We are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśa, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aṁśī. Aṁśī and aṁśa. Just like this hand, It is called part, and I am, as whole body, I am the whole. So we can understand part and whole. So therefore He is whole, and everything is His part. He is the aṁśī; *He is the whole. Sarva*-aṁśī. Kiśora-śekhara. This very word, kiśora-śekhara, "the supreme boy." The supreme boy. His feature is just like a fresh boy, but the supreme. Kiśora-śekhara cid-ānanda-deha, spiritual body. Just mark this description of Kṛṣṇa: cid-ānanda-deha. Cid-ānanda-deha means transcendental, spiritual body, not this body. Because the less intelligent persons, they cannot think of personal God... Because they think that whenever there is question of personality, it is material body. They cannot find out the shape of the spirit soul. It is so small that from material eyes, by material instrument, you cannot find out the shape of the soul. Therefore they conclude that there is no shape. The same example: just geometrically, the definition of point is given, "point has no length, no breadth," because a point cannot be measured by any human instrument. But nothing can be without... Even the atom has got its measure. But because we have no power to measure, we set aside, dismiss: "Oh, there is no, nothing." So similarly, "Because we do not know what is spirit, and we think spirit is something just opposite to this matter, and matter we find manifestation, form, therefore spirit should be formless." That is their conclusion.

*But actually it is not so. We therefore require to learn from the authority. Kṛṣṇa... Lord Caitanya says, cid-ānanda*-deha. Cid-ānanda-deha, the transcendental eternal body. Cid-ānanda-deha and sarvāśraya. Sarvāśraya means He is the rest of everything. Now, you see before you that so many big, big planets, even the sun, it is floating in the air. Such a big body, lump body, which is some million times greater than this earth, we can see it is floating in the sky. So how it is floating? Here it is explained, sarvāśraya. It is floating on Kṛṣṇa's energy. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Sarvāśraya sarveśvara. Sarveśvara means the Supreme Lord. This is very nicely explained by Lord Caitanya. Sarva-ādi: "He is the origin of everything." Sarva-aṁśī: "He is the whole of all the parts. And He is just like a fresh boy. His body is transcendental, spiritual, full of bliss." Sarvāśraya: "And He is the rest of everything. And He is the Supreme Lord." This is the description of Kṛṣṇa.

*So as we have seen that Lord Caitanya, when He instructs, He gives at once evidence from authoritative scripture, that is the way of presenting. Always you should remember that we cannot imagine about God: "I think God is like this." This is nonsense. You have no thinking power. You are under the grip of material nature. He is pulling. The material nature is pulling you by the ear, just like this. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. You are being acted, influenced. Just like the same example: You are thrown in the Atlantic Ocean. You have no power. By the waves you will have to work. The waves are tossing this way and that way. You are simply struggling. That's all. So how we can think independently within the tossing of Atlantic Ocean? This is all nonsense. So we cannot imagine, we cannot concoct, about God. We have to hear from authoritative scripture, authoritative version. Then we will understand. So here is authoritative version from Brahma*-saṁhitā:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*The Brahma*-saṁhitā describing about Kṛṣṇa, that īśvara, Lord... There are many lords. We have got experience. In England you will find many lords. We had some dealing with Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland. There are many lords. In your country also there are many lords. Any rich man is lord. In our country also there are many lords. But Kṛṣṇa is not a lord like them. These lords are under the grip of material nature. They are lord by name. But as soon as the material nature gives a slap on the lord, at once passed, everything lordship finished. So He is not a lord like that. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. He is Lord, but the Supreme Lord. He is not under anyone's control. Here the stamped lord, rubber-stamped lord, they are under full control. So they may say that "I am lord of all I survey," but it is all foolishness. Nobody is lord. The real Lord is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. Parama means Supreme. And who is that Supreme Lord? Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1].



*So how He becomes parama, the Supreme? Because He is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His body is spiritual, full of bliss and eternal. Therefore He is Supreme Lord. Anādi. So we have got experience that everything has got its cause. Suppose I am lord. But I have got some cause to become lord. Either my father was lord or I have accumulated some wealth, the government has recognized me as lord... Under certain condition, I have become lord. But He is ādi. Ādi means He is the origin. There is nothing beyond Him; therefore ādi. Ādi, anādi. Anādir ādiḥ. Everything has got a cause, but He has no cause. He is Lord, but there is no cause how He has become Lord. When I am lord, there is cause. I cannot become... Perhaps you know that in England, if somebody becomes very rich, he has to deposit some amount of money to the government, then government will award him the title "lord." And with that huge amount of money his family will be maintained, and the first son of the lord family, he will be declared as lord. In this way. So far I have heard. I do not know exactly. But this lord is made, recognized, by the government on deposition of some certain amount of money. The government recognizes, "Yes, this family may be recognized as lord family." They create. In England they create aristocracy. Similarly, when they were in India, they also created many aristocracies. So Kṛṣṇa is not a created, aristocratic lord. That we should know.

*Anādir ādir govindaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Govinda means... Go means three things. What is that? Go means the senses, and go means cow, and go means land. There are three meanings of go. So He gives pleasure to these three things. Wherever He is present, it becomes blissful, ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). The Vedānta-sūtra says, ānandamaya, always full of... Kṛṣṇa, the reservoir of pleasure. So whenever He is present, in whichever land, in whichever country, in whichever planet He is present, it becomes full of bliss, ānanda. Govinda. And He is playing just like cowherd boy, sixteen-year-boy and playing with cows. His father has got many cows, and He goes to the cows, pleasure trip with friends. That is Kṛṣṇa's business. He is not going to any office or any factory. You see? So goṣṭha. He goes, and His mother gives Him sufficient to eat. And after eating breakfast, with His friends and His flute and cows He goes outside for pleasure trip. That is Kṛṣṇa's business. Therefore He is Govinda. The cows, oh, as soon as they see Kṛṣṇa, they become... They lick up His face and body, and every cow has got a different name. As soon as He will call, the cow will come immediately and dropping milk. And those cows are also spiritual. Surabhī. It is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Surabhī. Surabhī cow means nonexhaustive. You can milk as much milk you want and as many times. In the material world the cow is limited. There is time that you can milk, morning and evening, and so much quantity, not more than that. But surabhīr means you can milk those cows anytime you like and you can draw milk as many as you like, as much as you like. This is called surabhī. Surabhīr... In the description of Brahma-saṁhitā: cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Surabhīr abhipālayantam. So therefore He is Govinda. He gives... He is pleasure for everyone.

*And indriya... Go means senses. We are seeking sense pleasure. Sense pleasure means reciprocation between the two. I want to see a beautiful girl. That means two. Or I want to see a beautiful boy. So that means two. So without two, there cannot be sense pleasure. I want to eat something palatable. There must be two. At least, the dish must be full of varieties. So impersonal, there is no pleasure, actual pleasure. So Kṛṣṇa, our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, our service with Kṛṣṇa, that is pleasure. Govinda. That is real sense pleasure. By seeing Kṛṣṇa, by tasting Kṛṣṇa, by smelling Kṛṣṇa, by touching Kṛṣṇa*-everything, that is sense pleasure. That is our real sense pleasure. So He is Govinda and sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], the cause of all causes. Beyond Him, there is no other cause. This is the description Lord Caitanya gives, and we shall gradually discuss other points.

Any questions? (end)



661207CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.154-157

-

New York, December 7, 1966



Prabhupāda:



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So Lord Caitanya has explained the particular features of Kṛṣṇa, and He's giving evidence from Brahma*-saṁhitā and other authentic Vedic literatures. So we have concluded that Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Origin. There are many demigods, gods, and living entities, energies, millions and millions. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. There is no estimate. But He is the origin of all. Just like in your New York City there are so many manifestation of electricity, but the origin is the powerhouse, similarly, He is the origin, powerhouse. Sarvādi, sarvāṁśī. He is the whole, and everything is part. And He is always just like a young boy of sixteen years old. And His body is transcendental, spiritual, full of bliss, eternity, and He is the shelter of everything. On Him everything is resting, and sarveśvara, He is the Supreme Lord.



svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa, 'govinda' para nāma

*sarvaiśvarya*-pūrṇa yāṅra goloka-nitya-dhāma



Now, that Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is the original name of God, and Govinda is the qualitative name, transcendental qualitative. This Govinda, we have explained. Go means land, go means senses, and go means... Land, senses...



Devotee: Cow.



*Prabhupāda: Cow. Yes. This we have explained. And because He gives pleasure to all these things especially, cows and land and the senses, He is known as Govinda. Sarvaiśvarya*-pūrṇa. He is full of all opulences. There is definition of God in the Parāśara-sūtra. Parāśara Muni, the father of Vyāsadeva, he was a great sage. So he has given the definition of God. After consulting all Vedic literatures, he has given his, delivered the definition of God. What is that? Sad-aiśvarya-pūrṇa: full of six opulences. And what are those six opulences? Aiśvaryasya samagrasya: "He is the proprietor of all wealth, everything." So aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya: "He is the reservoir of all strength." Vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ: "And He is the supreme famous." Nobody can be more famous than Kṛṣṇa. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). Śriyaḥ means beauty. Nobody can be more beautiful than Kṛṣṇa. And jñāna, knowledge. Nobody can be more knower and full of knowledge than Kṛṣṇa. And renunciation. And He is also, at the..., having so many opulences. He is renouncer of... He has nothing to do with all these things. He does not depend for His Godheadship on these qualifications. He is renouncer at the same time. So here also Lord Caitanya substantiates that ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa: "He's full of six opulences." Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa yāṅra goloka-nitya-dhāma. Nitya-dhāma means He's homely. Homely. He's the proprietor of all land, but just like a king. A king is the proprietor of the whole state; still, he has got his personal residence, which is called palace, royal palace. So similarly, although Lord is the proprietor of everything, every land, every space, every, any, anywhere... This is the proprietorship of Lord, of God's.



*So we are seeking after peace, but we do not know that where we are living. We are claiming proprietorship for the time being. We come here under different shapes, in different body, and claim proprietorship for the land where we are born. But we do not know by freaks of nature, any second, we can be driven away from this land and put another land. So where is my proprietorship? If I am staying for some time here, some time there... Bhojanaṁ yatra yatra śayanaṁ haṭṭa*-mandire: "I eat wherever eatables are available, and I sleep on the marketplace." Then where is my home? Where is my home? So this is our position. We are circumambulating under, in the cycle of birth and death. Sometimes I am claiming, "America is my land," sometimes claiming, "India is my land," sometimes claiming, "China is my land," sometimes claiming, "Moon planet is my land." No land belongs to you. Everything belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. He is the proprietor. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. That misunderstanding... We are falsely encroaching upon and falsely claiming proprietorship. Therefore there is no peace. You are searching after peace. How can there be peace? You are falsely claiming something which does not belong to you. So here it is said, sarvaiśvarya-pūrṇa.

*So every place belongs to God, but that Goloka Vṛndāvana, that place is particularly His abode. You have seen the picture. It is lotuslike. All planets are round, but that supreme planet is lotuslike. So that is in the spiritual sky, Goloka Vṛndāvana. And from that spiritual planet... Just like the, from the sun planet, the sunshine is emanating profusely. Just like this sun is, is compared with the eye, eyes of the Lord. Not... One eye. Another eye, the moon. It is figuratively stated. Yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited potency, sunlight, is coming from the sun. This material world, we can practically experience. But the sunlight is also emanating from that light which is emanating from that Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is the real light, which is called brahmajyoti. So in that brahmajyoti there are innumerable spiritual planets also. So in the spiritual sky, in that spiritual light, in that spiritual planets, there are innumerable liberated living entities, and each, each and every planet, there is expansion of Lord Kṛṣṇa. They are named by different names. [break] Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa yāṅra goloka-nitya-dhāma. So origin. He is the origin. His planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is the original planet, and from that planet, that brahmajyoti, light, is coming. And in that light, everything is resting. And in an insignificant portion of that light, this material world is situated. In that place there are innumerable universes as we are seeing one. And one of these universes, there are millions and billions of planets, of which this earth is only a insignificant fragment. And in that earth, the land of America, United States, is still insignificant. And in that state, New York is still insignificant. And in that New York City, this 26 Second Avenue insignificant. And we are sitting here. So just see how much insignificant we are. And we are claiming "God." Do not know... Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. This is called ignorance. We do not know how much insignificant we are in the creation of God, and we are claiming, "God." This is called poor fund of knowledge, poor fund of knowledge.

*Now Lord Caitanya says that... He's giving evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated,

*ete cāṁśa*-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ

kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam

*indrāri*-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ

mṛḍayanti yuge yuge

[SB 1.3.28]



*Now, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, perhaps in the Third Chapter in the First Canto, you'll find there is description of different incarnations, principal incarnations*-not all the incarnations, principal, in different yugas. So in that list of incarnations you'll find Lord Kṛṣṇa's name also, Lord Rāma's name also, Lord Buddha's name also. Lord Buddha is mentioned in that list. So we, Vaiṣṇavite, we respect Lord Buddha as incarnation, incarnation. So do not think that the Hindus, they have got disregard for Lord Buddha or for Lord Jesus Christ. No. They have all regard. Anyone who comes as representative of God, or as God, as powerful incarnation, they are all welcome. According to time, according to place, according to the audience, they may speak, speak something which is, which may be different from the Vedic conclusion, but they are accepted as powerful incarnations. So in that list of incarnations, Kṛṣṇa's name is also there. But just to particularize Kṛṣṇa from all others, this verse is mentioned there. What is that? Ete. Ete means "All this list of incarnations that we have seen or we are reading in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam..." Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ. Puṁsaḥ means the Supreme Lord. "The Supreme Lord's plenary portion or portion of the plenary portion..." Just like the... I have several times mentioned in this room, that the original lamp... This is original lamp. And you kindle another candle, from that, another, from that, another, from... In that... Thousands and millions of candles, you can light up, but the original is called the original. Similarly, the original God is Kṛṣṇa. From Him, Baladeva, and from Him, Saṅkarṣaṇa, and from Saṅkarṣaṇa, then Nārāyaṇa, and Nārāyaṇa, then second Saṅkarṣaṇa, the second Saṅkarṣaṇa, puruṣa avatāra, then puruṣa avatāra, Mahā-Viṣṇu... You have seen the picture in the, what is called, title page of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Mahā-Viṣṇu is lying in the, lying in the Causal Ocean, and in that Causal Ocean, from Mahā-Viṣṇu, from His breathing, millions and millions universes are coming out. And when He, when He breathes externally, the universes come out, and when He inhales, all the universes go into Him. You see? That Mahā-Viṣṇu.



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā-jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*That Viṣṇu, Maha*-Viṣṇu, is the part, part, part, part, part, part of the part of the part of Kṛṣṇa, that Mahā-Viṣṇu. So they are called kalā.



*So all these list... Bhāgavata is specifying about Kṛṣṇa. All this full list of God's incarnation... Either they are part, plenary part, or parts of the parts of the parts of the Supreme, but here, the name Kṛṣṇa, He's the original God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa." That has been particularly pointed out in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, although there are list of many. So that, that Kṛṣṇa, although He is original, still, indrāri-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ mṛḍayanti yuge yuge. Indrāri. Indra. Indra is the king of heaven. And ari, ari means enemy. Just like the heavenly king and the Satan, conception of Satan. So when there is satanic influence over the kingdom of God, or the devotees, or the appointed demigods, they are disturbed by satanic influence, then Kṛṣṇa comes. Yadā yadā hi... That is stated, confirmed, in Bhagavad-gītā.

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



Whenever there is discrepancies in the discharge of natural laws of God, then God incarnates. Either He incarnates Himself, or He sends His bona fide representative, or He sends His powerful representative, like that. So whenever there is incarnation of God, it is to be understood that there is discrepancies in the matter of discharging the laws made by God. And the laws made by God is called dharma, dharma, or religion.



So religion, you cannot manufacture; *I cannot manufacture. Just like there are so many religions now, manufactured by laymen. Oh, they are not religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Dharma means, religion means, which is made by God." Or His representative. Not by anyone. Not that you make a club or association, you manufacture some idea and it becomes religion. No. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bha... [SB 6.3.19]. Therefore God incarnates. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Glānir means when there is discrepancies. In that law, which is given by God, when there is discrepancies and people are disturbed, especially the devotees are disturbed, when there is satanic influence, there is, devotees are very much disturbed. So paritrāṇāya sādhūnām [Bg. 4.8]. When incarnation comes, now, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām, the first business is to give protection to the devotees. There is no necessity of God's coming here to settle up things. There is no necessity. He has got omnipotential power. He can do without His presence. But when His devotees become very much disturbed, He comes personally. He comes personally, sends His representative. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. Sādhūnām means devotees. Paritrāṇāya and vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. And, simultaneously, when He comes, all these miscreants, they are killed. They are annihilated. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, and reestablishing the principle of religion. Yuge yuge sambhavāmi. The Lord says, "I come in different millenniums."

*So that is going on. There are innumerable universes, which you cannot estimate, and each of the universes, the Lord is incarnating Himself by one of His plenary portions. Kṛṣṇa is present in some of the universes even now. We do not know where is that universe because we cannot see. What is information we have got? We do not know anything about this universe. We see so many stars in the night, so many sun, moon, but what do we know about them? Still, we are claiming that "We are very powerful. We are very advanced in knowledge." This is our poor fund of knowledge. Anyone who is claiming that "I am God" or "I am everything," he is a fool number one. Take it for... Immediately take as fool. What does he know? So indrāri*-vyākulaṁ lokam [SB 1.3.28]. There are many universes and many planets. So in either of them or each of them, some sort of incarnation is present there. Just like in government, in every department, there is a government representative. Just like in your city, your mayor, mayor is there. Or any responsible post, there is some director, there is... Similarly, indrāri-vyākulaṁ mṛḍayanti yuge yuge. Yuge yuge means different yugas. The same example. Just like the sun. The sun is present everywhere. Just at this moment it is now eight, eight o'clock in New York. In India it is night. There is no sun. But here it is, sun present. Similarly, in your country also, if you go more farther eastern, western side, somewhere the sun is already there somewhere, somewhere the sun is not there. So similarly, the sun is there, but it is the particular time and place where people can see and cannot see. So Kṛṣṇa is there always, everywhere, but it is the power of seeing where Kṛṣṇa is or Kṛṣṇa is not.

*So indrāri*-vyākulam... He is, by His one plenary portion, He is in either of the all universes. So in this universe, when He comes... Just like when sun appears in your country it takes round of twenty-four hours, similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes on this universe, it is only in one day of Brahmā, that is, some millions and millions of years after, He comes. He has got a scheduled time also, to appear in this universe. We get information from authentic scripture. Indrāri-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ mṛḍayanti yuge yuge. So He is... Just like sun is rotating, or we are rotating, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there. At a certain interval of time we see Him in this universe. He is present always, but at a certain interval... Just like the motorcar passes... It is going on. But when it is in front of my storefront, I can see. That's all. Not that because the motorcar has passed away, out of my sight, there is no motorcar. No. It has passed away from your sight. That's all. It is going on. It is going on. Similarly, incarnation, representation of Kṛṣṇa, is always going on. When we can see, then it is... Kṛṣṇa we can see. That is His omnipotency.

Now to understand that Kṛṣṇa... Already said that bhakti, only devotional service, can help you in understanding that Supreme Kṛṣṇa.

*jñāna, yoga, bhakti*-tina sādhanera vaśe

*brahma, ātmā, bhagavān*-trividha prakāśe



That same Kṛṣṇa, He manifests Himself before you in three different features. What is that? Paraṁ brahma. Brahman, impersonal Brahman; impersonal ātmā, Supersoul; *and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The same Kṛṣṇa. Actually Kṛṣṇa is everything. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Godhead, and He is Ātmā. He is situated as Paramātmā, the Supersoul, in everyone's heart. And He is Brahman. He is impersonal brahmajyoti spreading everywhere. So how the same thing is understood in different features? That is said, jñāna, yoga and bhakti. Those who are trying to understand the Supreme Absolute Truth through knowledge, they can go up to that impersonal Brahman. Those who are searching after the Supreme Absolute Truth through meditation, yoga, they can approach Kṛṣṇa up to His plenary portion, Paramātmā, or the Supersoul. And those who are pursuing the principles of devotional service, they can directly approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is everything. He is impersonal Brahman, He is localized Paramātmā, and He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead at the same time, but due to our different processes, different process of approach, somebody is realizing Him as the impersonal Brahman, somebody is realizing Him as the localized Paramātmā, Supersoul, and somebody is realizing Him, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], the most, supermost reservoir of all pleasure, Personality of Godhead, and associates with Him in different relationship and enjoys life, eternal life, blissful life and knowledge of full...



Thank you very much. (end)



661211CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.156-163

-

New York, December 11, 1966



(incomplete lecture)

Prabhupāda:



*ete cāṁśa*-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ

kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam

*indrāri*-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ

mṛḍayanti yuge yuge

[SB 1.3.28]



*jñāna, yoga, bhakti*-tina sādhanera vaśe

*brahma, ātmā, bhagavān*-trividha prakāśe



So the Absolute Truth is manifested according to the vision of the seer. The Absolute Truth is one without second, but according to the capacity of the seer, the Absolute Truth is manifested either as Brahman, impersonal Brahman, or localized Paramātmā, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So this point we have discussed.



*So Lord Caitanya is giving one evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said that "The Absolute Truth is one, without any duality. He is simply named in different ways." And what are the different names? "Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān."



*brahma*-aṅga-kānti tāṅra, nirviśeṣa prakāśe

*sūrya yena carma*-cakṣe jyotirmaya bhāse



*Lord Caitanya says that "The conception of Brahman is that it is the rays of the body of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the sunshine is the rays of the body of the sun disc, similarly," brahma*-aṅga-kānti tāṅra nirviśeṣa prakāśe. And in that brahmajyoti, or rays, there is no variegatedness. Just like if you all of a sudden see to the sun, you don't find any variegatedness in the sky. It appears just like only dazzling effulgence. But when the sunlight is not there, we can see millions and millions of stars in the firmament. So in the Upaniṣad also, it is prayed that "My Lord, You kindly move this curtain of glaring effulgence so that I can actually see You."



*So one who is dazzled by this glaring effulgence of the rays of Kṛṣṇa, they can realize the Supreme Lord or the Supreme Absolute Truth as impersonal. Sūrya yena carma*-cakṣe jyotirmaya bhāse. Carma-cakṣe, with our present eyes, defective... All our senses are defective. We are very much proud of our eyes. I want to see personally. But we do not know that with these eyes or any sense, they are all defective. They are not perfect. Just like in the glare of the sunshine, oh, we see nothing. We see sometimes darkness. So we cannot believe these eyes or senses. We have to take information of perfect knowledge from the authorities. That is the Vedic way. So those who want to see God or the Supreme Absolute Truth by the agency of their imperfect senses, they say that God is impersonal. They're imperfect. That is a realization of the imperfect senses. Perfectly, the perfectly vision, perfect vision of the Supreme Lord is a person. Just like nobody can enter into the sun disc. They can say from distant place, "Oh, there is nothing. It is simply fire." But from scripture we understand, "No, that is a planet." And as in this planet we have got so many variegatedness, similarly, in that planet also, there are... In every planet. There is no reason to disbelieve that in, in the, in other planets there is no life, there is no variegatedness. No. According to Vedic literature, it is not acceptable. Each and every planet, there is variegatedness as we find in this planet. The difference is that in some of the planets earthly matter is prominent, some of the planets fiery elements are prominent. So in the sun, sun planet, fiery elements is very prominent. There the living entities and everything, they are made of fire.

*So He's giving another evidence from Brahma*-saṁhitā:

*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*"I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda, whose bodily effulgence is brahmajyoti." The brahmajyoti, that is nothing but His bodily effulgence. And in that brahmajyoti... Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Or that brahmajyoti being manifested, there are innumerable planets and universes. There are. The same example: just like in the sun, sunshine, there are innumerable planets, so similarly, in the original shine, Kṛṣṇa shine*-this is sunshine; *the original shine is Kṛṣṇa shining*-in that effulgence there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, spiritual planets. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. In the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find, all these planetary manifestations is situated in one fourth of His effulgence. Three fourths of the manifestation are in the spiritual sky. Tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtam. Aśeṣa-bhūtam. It is so much extended that nobody can calculate how far. We cannot calculate even the sunshine, how far it is extended, and what to speak of that original effulgence. So our knowledge is always imperfect. We cannot study even millions and millionth part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. So it is futile to deny God because we cannot calculate His potencies and expansion of potencies.



paramātmā yeṅho, teṅho kṛṣṇera eka aṁśa

*ātmāra 'ātmā' haya kṛṣṇa sarva*-avataṁsa



*Now, this localized aspect, Paramātmā, in individual soul, living, He's called Paramātmā. So that Paramātmā, Supersoul, is also a part representation. The, the body of Kṛṣṇa is sac*-cid-ānanda vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Sac, cid, ānanda-three, three spiritual divisions. Not division actually. They are one. But for our understanding we analyze in that way, sac, cid, ānanda. Sat. Sat means eternity. So Brahman realization, impersonal Brahman realization, is realization of eternity; Paramātmā realization means eternity and knowledge; *and Bhagavān realization means full realization: eternity, knowledge and bliss. Simple eternal realization is without factual knowledge and without bliss*-impersonal. The impersonalists, they cannot enjoy the transcendental bliss. They simply stay as eternal. That's all. Śānta-rasa. It is called śānta-rasa, peaceful śānta-rasa. There is no exchange. And further development is dāsya-rasa. And further development is sākhya-rasa. And further development is vātsalya-rasa. And further, ultimate development is mādhurya-rasa. So in the spiritual atmosphere there are different degrees of realization. So this Brahman realization is the first step, and the Paramātmā realization is the second step, and Bhagavān realization, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is the ultimate stage.



*He's giving some evidences from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā also:

kṛṣṇam enam avehi tvam

ātmānam akhilātmanām

*jagad*-dhitāya so'py atra

dehīvābhāti māyayā



*Now, in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam some advanced devotee is indicating Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇam enam avehi: "This Kṛṣṇa..." When Kṛṣṇa was present in person, many persons studied Him in a different way, but one of them, who is pure devotee, he is describing about Kṛṣṇa that enam, "This Kṛṣṇa, this Kṛṣṇa," kṛṣṇam enam avehi, "you should try to understand." What is that? Tvam ātmānam akhilātmanām. Ātmānam akhilātmanām. Ātmā means the self, or soul. So we individual souls, we are part and parcel, fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is to be understood as the source of all individual selves. Akhilātmā. Akhila means all. Then jagad-dhitāya: "Now, He has come, He has descended out of His causeless mercy," jagad-dhitāya, "for the benefit of this world, this planet." Dehīva ābhāti. Just like He appears ordinary person. Ābhāti māyayā. Māyā. This māyā is not illusion. This māyā means by His internal potency. By His internal potency, He can appear just like us, but He's not like us. He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



Then,

atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



Now the Lord says, Kṛṣṇa says, when Arjuna asked Him, "Kṛṣṇa, will You describe something about Your different potencies, by which You are working in this material world?" Then Kṛṣṇa describes so many things. Out of that one verse is that atha vā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna: "My dear Arjuna, I have described in nutshell many of My potencies in displaying this manifested world, but you can understand one thing, that by one part, by manifestation of one of My part, I am..., I have entered all the universe and all the hearts of living entities." Just like by one reflection of the sun, if you put millions of pots with water, by one of the potencies of the sun, you'll find the sun is represented in every pot. During noontime, by one of the potencies of the sun, you can feel, five thousand miles away, the sun is just over your head. So, as it is possible even for a material object, so this Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spiritual form, He has got many potencies which we cannot calculate. In the Vedic literature it is said: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate... [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. (end)





661213CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.164-173

-

New York, December 13, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*'bhaktye' bhagavānera anubhava*-pūrṇa-rūpa

*eka*-i vigrahe tāṅra ananta svarūpa



Expansion of Kṛṣṇa, that is being described by Lord Caitanya. They are described in different Vedic literatures, and we are getting the information in one place from Lord Caitanya. So that is the advantage, to be in the disciplic succession. To find out in different information from different scriptures, it is very difficult, but if we become in the line of disciplic succession, all the experience is at once achieved. If you want to fight in the law court and if you want to find out all the law sections from the law book, it is very difficult for you. Better to go to a lawyer who knows the law section and take help and it is all right. Similarly, there are different kinds of descriptions of the Supreme Lord. The experienced spiritual master gives us the information in one place.



*So about the expansions of Lord Kṛṣṇa, in Brahma*-saṁhitā, Īśopaniṣad, and there are various Vedic literatures... They are all taken together, calculated and presented by Lord Caitanya. He says,

*svayaṁ*-rūpa tad-ekātma-rūpa, āveśa-nāma

*prathamei tina*-rūpe rahena bhagavān



*Svayaṁ*-rūpa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, He is called svayaṁ-rūpa, His personal feature. Then tad-ekātmā. Tad-ekātma-rūpa means not exactly the same person, but almost the same. Tad-ekātma-rūpa. And āveśa. Āveśa means that empowered. There is always difference between the individual soul and the Supreme Absolute Soul. When the individual soul is specially empowered by the Supreme Soul, that is called āveśa. He can act almost like God. We accept, according to this āveśa, āveśa-avatāra incarnation, authorized incarnation, we accept, my Guru Mahārāja accepted Lord Jesus Christ and Hazrat Muhammad, this āveśa incarnation, almost the same power.



*svayaṁ*-rūpa tad-ekātma-rūpa, āveśa-nāma

*prathamei tina*-rūpe rahena bhagavān



*Now, in the first instance the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, and tad*-ekātmā, His next expansion with the same features, and āveśa, a powerful incarnation or powerful living entity...



*'svayaṁ*-rūpa' 'svayaṁ-prakāśa'-dui rūpe sphūrti

*svayaṁ*-rūpe-eka 'kṛṣṇa' vraje gopa-mūrti



*Svayaṁ*-rūpa, the supreme personal feature, and svayaṁ-prakāśa... His immediate expansion is called svayaṁ-prakāśa.



*So in His svayaṁ*-rūpa, in His personal feature, He always remains at Vṛndāvana, and He is just like a cowherd boy. That is His real feature, Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, that is not the real feature of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a person, high-court judge, where you will find his real feature? His real feature you will find at his home, not on the bench. In the bench, even his father comes, the high-court judge's father, he will have to address the judge, "My lord." That is the court. The same person at home and same person in the court is different, although the same person. Similarly, the real Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, He never goes out of Vṛndāvana. He remains always a cowherd boy. That's all. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Surabhī means transcendental cows. He is engaged in that pastime. So svayaṁ-rūpa eka kṛṣṇa vraje gopa-mūrti. Gopa-mūrti means cowherd boy.

*'prābhava*-vaibhava'-rūpe dvividha prakāśe

*eka*-vapu bahu rūpa yaiche haila rāse



*Then prakāśa, expansion. From expansion, there are two kinds of division, prābhava and vaibhava. So prābhava, what is the prābhava expansion? It is given: eka*-vapu bahu rūpa yaiche haila. Prābhava expansion means the same feature, the same body, but it is distributed in innumerable places. That is called prābhava expansion. The example is, eka-vapu bahu rūpa yaiche haila rāse. In the rāsa dance, Kṛṣṇa performed the rāsa dance, not exactly the ball dance... But it is an imitation of that rāsa dance. Because you cannot have any idea of anything without its being originally in Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. That is the version of Vedānta-sūtra. Any idea, whatever you... But they are simply perverted reflection. That's all. You cannot get anything, any idea, without its being situated in Kṛṣṇa. The rāsa dance, that is described in the Thirty-second Chapter of the Tenth Canto in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Five chapters, from Twenty-ninth Chapter to Thirty-fourth Chapter, Kṛṣṇa's rāsa dance is described there. The rāsa dance... The short history of rāsa dance is that Kṛṣṇa was sixteen years old, and the girls of the village, Vṛndāvana, and the boys, they were all friends. Naturally in India the girls were early married, some at the age of twelve years, some at the age of thirteen years, some at the age of ten years. The boys remain... So the girls who were friends of Kṛṣṇa, they always prayed to different demigods, Lord Śiva, that "Kṛṣṇa may be our husband." So that desire was there, but it was not possible to get Kṛṣṇa to become everyone's..., because He was only a boy. But they maintained that idea although they were married and some of them were mothers. Some of them were unmarried. So Kṛṣṇa, to fulfill their desire, He blew on His flute on a nice moonlight night, and all the gopīs, all those girls, they came. And Kṛṣṇa advised them, "Oh, you are now married. You have come at dead of night to Me. It is not good." In this way He advised so many things. They were very moral instruction. But the gopīs denied to go back, and they arranged that dancing. That is called rāsa dance.



*In the rāsa dance there were hundreds of gopīs, but Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself to dance with each one of them. That is called vaibhava*-vilāsa. He expanded.

*'prābhava*-vaibhava'-rūpe dvividha prakāśe

*eka*-vapu bahu rūpa yaiche haila rāse



The same Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say, expanded Himself in many Kṛṣṇas. That is expansion, vaibhava expansion. Another expansion is,



*mahiṣī*-vivāhe haila bahu-vidha mūrti

*'prābhava prakāśa'*-ei śāstra-parasiddhi



So one expansion is vaibhava at Vṛndāvana, and another expansion was made by Kṛṣṇa at Dvārakā when He was grown up and He was obliged to marry sixteen thousand wives, sixteen thousand wives. He had actually... Because the kṣatriyas, the administrator, the royal family, royal class, they are allowed to marry more than one wife, not other class. Because they were rich, they were royal, kingly order, they had sufficient means. They could maintain many wives with the same comforts. So they were allowed; not others, not the poor brāhmaṇas or others. No. So Kṛṣṇa's father had sixteen wives, and one of the wives' name was Devakī, and Kṛṣṇa happened to be her son, Devakī. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa's father, Vasudeva, had sixteen wives. He was also Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa similarly had three or four wives, eight wives, yes. But He got information, prayer, application, prayer application, from sixteen thousand girls who were kidnapped by a demon, Narakāsura. And they sent application to Kṛṣṇa, "Please save us." So Kṛṣṇa is always responsive to His devotee, so He went to save the girls. He killed that Narakāsura and rescued those all sixteen thousand girls.



Now those sixteen thousand girls prayed to Kṛṣṇa that "We are kidnapped." They were all king's daughters. They were also all princesses. "But because we are kidnapped, so nobody will marry us." That is the system. Once a girl goes out of the home, it is very difficult for her to be married in the society. Still that system is going on in India. Unmarried girls, young girls, they cannot go out unless she is married. If she goes out and if she passes some night with other boys, then no more place in the society. So those girls prayed to Kṛṣṇa that "Because we are kidnapped by this Narakāsura from our father's custody, now nobody will marry. So You become our husband. Otherwise there is no other way." So they appealed, they cried, and Kṛṣṇa accepted: "Yes. I will accept you all, My wives." Therefore He brought those sixteen thousand girls. But what kind of husband? He is God, not an ordinary husband. So He constructed sixteen thousand palaces for all the wives and equally all decorated houses. They are described that the houses did not require any external light. It was all bedecked with jewels. And in sixteen thousand forms He used to live with each wife. That is God. You see?

*So somebody may say, somebody questioned that "How is that, sixteen thousand? He was very lusty," somebody says, poor fund of knowledge. Or "It is simply story." No. It is... Kṛṣṇa is neither lusty, nor it is story. He is Supreme, full in Himself. He did not require even one wife. Because we require the association of wife or girl because we feel the need, if God is in need, then He is not God. He must be full. But just because His devotees wanted Him her husband, therefore He played the part of a perfect husband. That is the position. Nobody, no husband, can expand himself in many ways. Suppose one has got many girls friend. Oh, he can go to one girl friend, not to many. This is. Another point is that īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "The Lord is situated in everyone's heart." So if the girls prayed God that "You become our husband," so if God comes out of the heart and becomes her husband, what is the difficulty for God? So not sixteen thousand, if He would marry sixteen millions of wife, still it was insufficient, because He is everywhere. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. This is called vaibhava-vilāsa, vaibhava-vilāsa, inconceivable. Lord Caitanya is presenting the real, factual features of Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. So,

*mahiṣī*-vivahe haila bahu-vidha mūrti

*prābhava vilāsa ei śāstra*-parasiddhi



*Now, the yogis, some of the yogis, not all the yogis... Those who are highly qualified and advanced yogis always remain in... There is a name of Saubhari Muni, Ṛṣi, and he was in meditation, in trance within the water. Because the trance, there is no breathing, so there is no difficulty to remain even in water, because breathing causes difficulty within water. Within goes... So he was in trance, and he was a great yogi. He was meditating within water, but he... Some way or other, he was agitated by sex desire, by seeing the fish have sex intercourse. Just see. The sex power is so strong that even such a yogi who could meditate within the water, he was also agitated by sex desire. So he came out of the water and went to the king and asked him that "You give me your daughter as my wife." Oh, he was a great ṛṣi, and because he was in the water, his feature was very ugly. So the king became perplexed: "Oh, how my daughter will select such a nasty body as my son*-in-law?" So he was yogi; he could understand: "Then all right..." (snaps fingers) He became very nice. Because yogis, they can do anything, very nice bodily feature. Then the king tried to avoid him, and the king told him, "Well, sir, my determination is I have got eight daughters. So I can offer my daughters to one who can become eight at least." He wanted to see how much he was yogi. And he bifurcated himself at once into eight forms. So here it is stated,



*saubhary-ādi*-prāya sei kāya-vyūha naya

*kāya*-vyūha haile nāradera vismaya nā haya



Because that oneness... Just like in photograph. In photograph you can expand yourself in millions, but that is not actually expansion. So similarly, the yogi Saubhari Ṛṣi, he expanded into eight, but that was not actually expansion. That was merely a show, just like photograph. But Kṛṣṇa's expansion, here it is compared, He actually expanded in different houses, in different feature, and differently dealing. That is mentioned in the Bhāgavata.



*So He is giving evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam as it was experienced by Nārada. Nārada doubted that "How Kṛṣṇa is married with sixteen thousand wives, and how He is dealing with them?" So when he came, in whichever house he entered, palace, he saw Kṛṣṇa was there. Somewhere He was taking bath, somewhere He was playing with the children, somewhere... Just like if you go in different houses, the householder, you will find differently engaged. So he went each of those sixteen thousand palaces and saw Kṛṣṇa differently engaged. Then he was surprised, and he recited this śloka,

citraṁ bataitad ekena

vapuṣā yugapat pṛthak

*gṛheṣu dvy*-aṣṭa-sāhasraṁ

striya eka udāvahat



*Dvy*-aṣṭa-sāhasram. Dvy means double, and aṣṭa means eight, and sāhasra means thousand. That means double eight thousand, or sixteen thousand. Dvy-aṣṭa-sāhasraṁ striya eka udāvahat. And Kṛṣṇa, one, He married, and He was expanded in sixteen thousand forms and features.



sei vapu, sei ākṛti pṛthak yadi bhāse

*bhāvāveśa*-bhede sa 'vaibhava-prakāśe'



*Now, the feature, the body, is the same, but in different house with different devotees, the exchange of feelings is different. That is called vaibhava*-prakāśa. So it is a very complicated idea, which of them is vaibhava, which of them is prābhava, which of them is vilāsa, which of them is tad-ekātmā, āveśa... There are different divisions of Kṛṣṇa's expansions. But we can note down if we like from original Kṛṣṇa how many, I mean to say, expansions, innumerable expansions Kṛṣṇa has got. But some of them were shown when He was present before us just to prove that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because in future so many fools will imitate to become Kṛṣṇa as the incarnation of God or God, but Kṛṣṇa has in His life so many uncommon features, nobody can show that. Just like Govardhana. You have seen that picture. At seven years old, He lifted the hill. And when He was young He married sixteen thousand wives, and sixteen thousand features... So... And when He was in Battle of Kurukṣetra, He showed the universal form. So before claiming oneself as "I am God," they should be prepared to show these uncommon features. Otherwise, no sane man will accept any fool as God.



*ananta prakāśe kṛṣṇera nāhi mūrti*-bheda

*ākāra*-varṇa-astra-bhede nāma-vibheda



*Then He says, "There are unlimited expansions of Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual world, and..." Nāhi mūrti*-bheda. Just like His expansions in the spiritual world... He is originally two-handed, but in the spiritual planets... There are innumerable spiritual planets, and He is situated in each of them in four hand. Now this four hand, each hand... There are four symbols: conchshell and wheel and club and a lotus flower. Now, these four symbols are differently manifested in. Just like four hands. Beginning from right, this is lotus flower, club, and then conchshell, then wheel. And some of them, here begins wheel, here begins club. In this way the four has about sixteen divisions, and they are represented... Not sixteen. Twenty-four. Twenty-four, I mean to say, change of the place of the symbols. And according to the change of symbols, you will find different names. In the cover of the book Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you have seen. These symbols are there. And there are different names. Some of Them named Hṛṣīkeśa, some of Them named Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Padmanābha... In this way there are different names according to the different change of the symbolic representation.



anye ca saṁskṛtātmāno

vidhinābhihitena te

*yajanti tvan*-mayās tvāṁ vai

*bahu*-mūrtyeka-mūrtikam



So there are different kinds of devotees also. Some devotee worships the Nārāyaṇa feature, some devotee worships Kṛṣṇa feature, Nṛsiṁhadeva... So there are innumerable devotees and innumerable forms also of Kṛṣṇa. But not these ordinary demigods. When Kṛṣṇa says, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham: [Bg. 4.11] "Any devotee who wants to worship Me in My different feature, I offer him in that feature..." Just like Hanumān. He was a devotee of Rāma. So there is one verse by Hanumān, that "I know Rāma and Nṛsiṁha and Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, is the same. But still, I want to worship Rāma." Just like we, ourself, we know Lord Rāma and Lord Kṛṣṇa the same, but we want to worship Kṛṣṇa. So different devotees have different inclination to offer his service to different features of God. And therefore He has got innumerable features of the presentation. They are differently named.



Thank you very much. (end)



661214CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.172

-

New York, December 14, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*ananta prakāśe kṛṣṇera nāhi mūrti*-bheda

*ākāra*-varṇa-astra-bhede nāma-vibheda



So Kṛṣṇa has innumerable expansions. So far potency of the Lord is concerned, in those expansions there is no difference of potency, but the different names are due to difference of manifestation. Sometimes the Lord is manifested with two hands, sometimes with four hands. And (in) the four hands there are different symbolic representation. So due to these different kinds of manifestation there are different names, but so far God's six potential opulences are concerned, they are always present in every form and manifestation. There is no difference.



*vaibhava*-prakāśa kṛṣṇera-śrī-balarāma

*varṇa*-mātra-bheda, saba-kṛṣṇera samāna



Balarāma. Balarāma is considered to be the elder brother of Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present, Balarāma became His elder brother. When Rāma was there, this Balarāma represented Himself as His younger brother, Lakṣmaṇa. So Balarāma is the first manifestation of His personal expansion.



*vaibhava*-prakāśa yaiche devakī-tanuja

*dvibhuja*-svarūpa kabhu, kabhu haya caturbhuja



*Vaibhava*-prakāśa, vaibhava manifestation... The example is given: just like when Kṛṣṇa was born, He was not exactly born from the womb of His mother. So He appeared first of all with four hands. Then, when the mother prayed... She could know that Kṛṣṇa has come. She prayed for become an ordinary child, and at once He became two-handed. This is called vaibhava-prakāśa manifestation. Ye-kāle dvibhuja, nāma-vaibhava-prakāśa. When He is two-handed, it is called vaibhava-prakāśa, and when He is four-handed, it is called prābhava-vaibhava.



*svarūpera gopa*-veśa, gopa-abhimāna

*vāsudevera kṣatriya*-veśa, 'āmi-kṣatriya'-jñāna



In His original personality, sometimes He represents Himself as the son of Nanda Mahārāja, the cowherds man, and sometimes He represents Himself as the son of Vasudeva, the kṣatriya king.



*saundarya, aiśvarya, mādhurya, vaidagdhya*-vilāsa

*vrajendra*-nandane ihā adhika ullāsa



Aiśvarya, the opulence, six kinds of opulence of which mādhurya, I mean to say, His relationship with His devotees in conjugal love... That is very much prominent in Vṛndāvana.



govindera mādhurī dekhi' vāsudevera kṣobha

se mādhuri āsvādite upajaya lobha



*The beauty, beauty of Kṛṣṇa, is fully manifested in Vṛndāvana. As sixteen*-years boy and playing flute, the beauty was so attractive that even Vāsudeva Himself became attracted by the beauty.



sei vapu bhinnābhāse kichu bhinnākāra

*bhāvāveśākṛti*-bhede 'tad-ekātma' nāma tāṅra



*Now, that original feature of Lord Kṛṣṇa, when there is a little difference, that is called tad*-ekātma.



*tad*-ekātma-rūpe 'vilāsa', 'svāṁśa'-dui bheda

vilāsa, svāṁśera bhede vividha vibheda



*That tad*-ekātma, almost the same, that is also divided into two: svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa.



*prābhava*-vaibhava-bhede vilāsa-dvidhākāra

*vilāsera vilāsa*-bheda-ananta prakāra



*prābhava*-vilāsa-vāsudeva, saṅkarṣaṇa

*pradyumna, aniruddha*-mukhya cāri-jana



Now, the prābhava manifestation, four, They are called Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha and Pradyumna. These four names are there.



*vraje gope*-bhāva rāmera, pure kṣatriya-bhāvana

*varṇa*-veśa-bheda, tāte 'vilāsa' tāṅra nāma



*vaibhava*-prakāśe āra prābhava-vilāse

*eka*-i mūrtye baladeva bhāva-bhede bhāse



*These are all technical terms. You just go on hearing. But if you want to have them minutely studied, then you have to take a note from this book. And of course, it is necessary, but gradually, when you are conversant with the features of Lord, these things will come automatically. Just let us hear how many forms are there, prābhava*-vilāsa, and their technical names.



*Now these prābhava*-vilāsa forms, four-handed, They are also divided into different names according to the different months. Just like your calendar month is called January, February, March, April, May, June, and in India the calendar months are named as Vaiśākha, Jyaiṣṭha, Āṣāḍha, Śrāvaṇa, Bhādra, Āśvina, similarly, according to the Vaiṣṇava smṛti, there are the spiritual... These names, calendar months, they are according to the situation of the sun. Similarly, in the spiritual world the twelve months are named according to the different features of the Lord. And they are described here:

*cakrādi*-dhāraṇa-bhede nāma-bheda saba

*vāsudevera mūrti*-keśava, nārāyaṇa, mādhava



Vāsudeva, according to the symbolic representation of the hands, They are differently named. Vāsudeva is divided into three: Keśava, Nārāyaṇa, Mādhava. Similarly, Saṅkarṣaṇa is divided into three: Govinda, Viṣṇu, Śrī Madhusūdana. Similarly, Pradyumna is divided into three: Trivikrama, Vāmana, Śrīdhara. Similarly, Aniruddha is divided into three: Hṛṣīkeśa, Padmanābha, Dāmodara. So all these, three into four, twelve, They are named in different months. Mārga-śīrṣe keśava. Mārga-śīrṣe means October. In the month of October He is known as Keśava. Then November, not exactly November, October, November. November, Keśava; *and December, Nārāyaṇa. And then January, Mādhava. Then Govinda. Just take twelve names. Govinda, then Viṣṇu, then Madhusūdana, then Trivikrama, then Vāmana, then Śrīdhara, then Hṛṣīkeśa, then Padmanābha, then Dāmodara. Similarly, we have got dvādaśa tilaka. The same names are there. Lalāṭe keśavaṁ dhyāyet. When dvādaśa tilakas are made, these twelve names are remembered. Lalāṭe keśavaṁ nārāyaṇam athodare: Nārāyaṇa on the belly. Then vakṣaḥ-sthale, then here, then here, then here, then here. In this way, twelve names there are. In this way... Of course, these are very technical. It may be not very interesting, but there are similar names of Kṛṣṇa-Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa*-and how they are divided, it is an artistic... The Vāsudeva name, the four hands... How you can distinguish? The four hands you will find everywhere, and the symbolic representation in the hand, that lotus flower, club, and the wheel, and the conchshell. Now, according to the different position of these four symbolic representation, the name are different. Just like Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva, He takes the club in the first right hand and then the conchshell in the second right hand and then left, the upper left hand, wheel, and the lower left hand, lotus flower. Similarly, Saṅkarṣaṇa, there is change. So different change... Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Keśava, Nārāyaṇa, Śrī Mādhava, Govinda, Viṣṇu-mūrti, Madhusūdana, Trivikrama, Śrī Vāmana, Śrīdhara, Hṛṣīkeśa, Padmanābha, Dāmodara, Puruṣottama, Śrī Acyuta. Śrī Acyuta, (aside:) Acyutānanda. Śrī Acyuta, Śrī Nṛsiṁha, Śrī Janārdana, Śrī Hari, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Adhokṣaja, Upendra, Hayaśīrṣa. In this way there are different names. How many names we can remember? He is unlimited. His names are unlimited. His expansions are unlimited. So if you want to take details of His names and expansions, they are mentioned in the scriptures. You can have it. But it is very difficult to remember them. But let us understand that His expansions are unlimited, and unlimited expansions of God, particular names, they are mentioned in the scriptures.



*'svayam bhagavān', āra 'līlā*-purusottama'

*ei dui nāma dhare vrajendra*-nandana



*Now Kṛṣṇa's two particular names are Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Puruṣottama. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Eighth Chapter you will understand what is Puruṣottama. Puruṣa, puruṣa means enjoyer; *uttama means the highest. So Paramātmā and Puruṣottama are discussions there in the Eighth Chapter of the Bhagavad*-gītā.



*purīra āvaraṇa*-rūpe purīra nava-deśe

*nava*-vyūha-rūpe nava-mūrti parakāśe



*prakāśa*-vilāsera ei kailuṅ vivaraṇa

svāṁśera bheda ebe śuna, sanātana



Now the description of prakāśa manifestation and vilāsa manifestation are described in this way, now, His plenary portions, how they are named.



*saṅkarṣaṇa, matsyādika*-dui bheda tāṅra

*saṅkarṣaṇa*-puruṣāvatāra līlāvatāra āra



*Saṅkarṣaṇa and in incarnation... Saṅkarṣaṇa, from Saṅkarṣaṇa, there are three expansions. They are called Viṣṇu*-Mahā-Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu, and Kṣirodakaśāyī Viṣṇu-from Saṅkarṣaṇa. Mahā-Viṣṇu... When the material world is created, the Mahā-Viṣṇu expansion is there. From Mahā-Viṣṇu, all these universes are generated. And from Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is expanded. This Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu enters into each universe, and then, in each universe, from Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is expanded. That Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu has a planet within this universe near the polestar. And from that Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the expansion, Paramātmā, is distributed in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. That Viṣṇu-mūrti is expanded from the Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu within this material world. The Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is also within this material universe. And both, all these Viṣṇu-mūrti... One Viṣṇu-mūrti is the Mahā-Viṣṇu. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. From Maha-Viṣṇu, all these universes are being generated, niśyaika-kāla..., when He, Mahā-Viṣṇu, is lying in the Causal Ocean, and from His breathing all these universes are being generated. Then they expand, and then Mahā-Viṣṇu enters in each universe as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu... These pictures are there. You have seen. And from Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu... From Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu there is expansion of Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. From Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu the Paramātmā, or the expansion of Supersoul in every living entity, that is expanded. Then His incarnation. The incarnation, that is also innumerable. Principally the incarnations are avatāra haya kṛṣṇa ṣaḍ-vidha prakāra.



Generally the incarnations are divided into six divisions. What are they? Puruṣāvatāra eka, first puruṣāvatāra; second, līlāvatāra; third, guṇāvatāra; and fourth, manvantarāvatāra; and fifth, yugāvatāra; *and sixth, śaktyāveśāvatāra. This is very important. This is very important. There are incarnations, six kinds of incarnations. This may be noted. First, puruṣāvatāra. Purusāvatāra, these Viṣṇus, three Viṣṇu-Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu*-They are called puruṣāvatāras. God sometimes manifests Himself as incarnation of fish, incarnation of hog, incarnation of lion, incarnation of Rāma. Rāma is also puruṣāvatāra, I mean to say, līlāvatāra, Rāma. So līlāvatāra, then guṇāvatāra. Gunāvatāra is according to the modes of this material nature there are three guṇāvatāras. So first, Himself, Viṣṇu, and the second, Brahmā. Brahmā is also guṇāvatāra, incarnation of the quality. There are three qualities in the material world. Brahmā is the incarnation of the passion, mode of passion, and Viṣṇu is the incarnation of the mode of goodness, and Śiva, Lord Śiva, is the incarnation of the mode of ignorance. So all these three avatāras, although they are different manifestation of God, still, in the scriptures this is recommended that if anyone wants to get out of this material entanglement, then he has to worship These incarnation in the modes of goodness, Viṣṇu-avatāra. That is... These things are described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*So one may say that "If three of them are incarnation of the Supreme, why particularly to Viṣṇu? Why not Lord Śiva and why not Brahmā?" That is described in the Bhāgavata. Just like I require fire. So fire, the fire, there is. Just like wood is produced from the earth, and fire is produced from the wood, similarly, although it, production, the source of production, is the same, but still, I require fire. I cannot have fire from the earth or from the, just tree. I have to take the wood, fuel. This example is there. Although the source is one, still, unless I get fire, my purpose will not be served. Similarly, this Viṣṇu and Śiva and Brahmā... From, I mean to say, gross earth the wood is produced like tree, and from tree we take wood, and from wood there is fire. So when we get fire, then we can serve our purpose. Similarly, although these three avatāras are there in the material world, we have to take shelter of the Viṣṇu*-avatāra, goodness. So far spiritual progress, one has to be situated on the modes of goodness first. Therefore we require to be brāhmaṇas, qualified brāhmaṇas, then Vaiṣṇava. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. Brāhmaṇa does not mean caste. Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Supreme Brahman. He is brāhmaṇa. And then, after being brāhmaṇa, then you have to transcend that position and put yourself in the pure goodness. This material goodness is contaminated. Sometimes goodness is affected by ignorance and passion in the material... So when you are transcendental to this material goodness, that stage is called Vāsudeva stage. And Vāsudeva stage, that means God realization.

*So there are three incarnation of guṇāvatāra, then manvantarāvatāra. Manvantarāvatāra means... There is seventy-one yugas. One yuga means about 4,300,000's of years. Four million and 300,000's of years, that makes a complete yuga. Such seventy*-one yuga is the duration of a Manu. That is called Man... And each Manu is also an incarnation, Manvantarāvatāra. And such Manu takes place, fourteen Manus take place, during one day of Brahma. So Manvantarāvatāra. Then yuga avatāra. Yuga avatāra... In each yuga, during that 4,300,000's of years, there are yuga avatāra. They are the incarnation. They come. They are called yugāvatāras. And then there is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra, they are counted just like Lord Buddha, Jesus Christ. They are counted amongst the śaktyāveśāvatāras. They are also incarnation of śaktyāveśāvatāra, powerful. In this way the Supreme Lord manifests all over the universes. There are innumerable universes, and some of His incarnation are working always.

*So God's kingdom is not vacant. Just like we are thinking that except this earthly planet, all planets are vacant. Somebody is suggesting it is a lump of ashes. Just like they are thinking of this moon planet*-a lump of dust. I cannot, of course, think like that. How dust can remain in a lump and how so much illumination come out from the dust? But they are putting the theory that the moon planet is a lump of dust. So let them do. But from the scripture we understand that there are innumerable universes, and each and every universe is full with innumerable planets, and each planet is full with innumerable living entities, and God's incarnation is working somewhere, other, to reclaim these conditioned souls.

Thank you very much. (end)



661216CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.245-255

-

New York, December 16, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*avatāra haya kṛṣṇera ṣaḍ*-vidha prakāra

puruṣāvatāra eka, līlāvatāra āra



guṇāvatāra, āra manvantarāvatāra

yugāvatāra, āra śaktyāveśāvatāra



Now, we have been discussing about incarnations. These incarnations are concerned so far the maintenance of the material world is required. In the spiritual world there is no incarnation. There is a permanent situation of the spiritual planets, and in different planets, He, Kṛṣṇa, has different expansions under different symbolic representation, and they are differently named. There is no change. But in the material world, when we speak of incarnation, that is in relationship with this material world. In this... For the material world these incarnations are expanded. And what are they? First the puruṣāvatāra; then līlāvatāra; then guṇāvatāra, three; then manvantarāvatāra, four; then yugāvatāra, five; and then śaktyāveśāvatāra. Śaktyāveśāvatāra.



*So these incarnations are manifested at different times according to the need. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated,

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*There is a system. In the process of this material world there is a system. Just like for maintenance of your state, United States, there is system of government, and there is an aim. Just like your government does not like that..., there should be no Communistic persons, and you write that "We trust in God." It is better to trust in God. You have got a system. Similarly, the maintenance of the whole material world, there is a system. It is not blind. Foolish creatures, they think that everything has come out of nothing, and it is being managed by nature. No. Behind nature there is God. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you have learned, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My superintendence the material nature is working." Material nature is not blind. Just like foolish person, because he cannot see President Johnson and the governmental personalities, they think, "It is going on. Nobody is there behind this government, and it is going on." So similarly, persons who have no knowledge in the affairs of this material world, they think that "This material nature is working, and automatically, by magic, the sun is coming out, the moon is coming out, and the season is changing, and everything is going on just like magic, and we are the master of everything." Never think..., these foolish persons never think that they are not masters, they are servant, servant of the material nature.



*So that is their foolishness. Therefore, when there is too much foolishness, so there is need of avatāra, incarnation, to correct. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Whenever there is, I mean to say, discrepancies in the maintenance of law and order of this material nature, there is need of avatāra, incarnation. Because it is God's kingdom, it is also secondary kingdom*-real kingdom is in the spiritual world-so God comes in different avatāra. And when the material world is created, the first avatāra is puruṣa-avatāra. The Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī, They create. And then līlāvatāra. Līlāvatāra, under some particular circumstances, to save some particular devotee, or to display some particular feature... Just like Lord Rāma, He incarnated. He is līlāvatāra. Then guṇāvatāra. For maintenance of this material world there are different kinds of modes of nature, and to control those modes of nature there are avatāras, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Līlāvatāra. Then manvantarāvatāra. The changes of millenniums, that manvantarāvatāra. And then yugāvatāras, yugāvatāra, in each and every yuga. Just like this Kali-yuga. This is called Kali-yuga. In the Kali-yuga the incarnation is Lord Caitanya.

*It is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam... There is a chapter. Nava-yogendra, nine great mystics, met one very powerful king, and they explained, each and every one of them. They explained about spiritual things. And there was a transcendentalist amongst them. Amongst the nine personalities, there was one whose name was Camasa Muni. The Camasa Muni said... That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. When he was asked by Viveha Mahārāja, the King Viveha, "What is the avatāra of this Kali-yuga, especial?" then he mentioned,

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*"Now, in this age of Kali-yuga, there will be avatāra, incarnation, who is Kṛṣṇa, but His color of the body is not black." That is Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya was very fair complexion, nice looking. So kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣā. Tviṣā, by complexion, He is not Kṛṣṇa, but He is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam tviṣākṛṣṇam and sāṅgo 'pāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. And He is associated by His confidential, I mean to say, devotees. You'll find Lord Caitanya always crowded by His devotees, always. His dancing mood*-you have seen the picture. Special associates, that Advaita, Gadādhara, Nityānanda. So that incarnation, who is Kṛṣṇa, but His color, His complexion, is not black, but He is associated with devotees... And the process of worshiping that incarnation is to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare.



*So in this yuga, this Kali-yuga, incarnation is Lord Caitanya, and the process of worship is this sound vibration. That is mentioned. In every avatāra, every incarnation... Just like Lord Buddha. His name is also mentioned. And there will be another incarnation, Kalki. That is also mentioned. So they are mentioned, yugāvatāra. And śaktyāveśāvatāra. Śaktyāveśāvatāra. All avatāras, their mission is to preach the message of God. Avatāra has no other business. The message of God. Śaktyāveśāvatāra. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, this is also considered śaktyāveśāvatāra, the incarnation of sound. Incarnation of sound. It is described by Lord Caitanya that kali-kāle nāma rūpe avatāra: "In this Kali-yuga, in this age, this incarnation of name-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare-to give facility to the conditioned soul." They cannot do anything. It is very difficult to perform any other religious rituals. This, the best anywhere, everywhere*-you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śakti. Śakti, this word is used, śakti. And from śakti, that energy, śaktyāveśāvatāra. So this name is also śaktyāveśāvatāra.

bālya, paugaṇḍa haya vigrahera dharma

*eta*-rūpe līlā karena vrajendra-nandana



And when Kṛṣṇa personally comes, He can be seen in two features, bālya, paugaṇḍa: His childhood and boyhood, up to sixteenth year. That is the real feature of Kṛṣṇa, kiśora. And further features, that is expansion of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19].



ananta avatāra kṛṣṇera, nāhika gaṇana

*śākhā*-candra-nyāya kari dig-daraśana



avatārā hy asaṅkhyeyā

*hareḥ sattva*-nidher dvijāḥ

yathā 'vidāsinaḥ kulyāḥ

sarasaḥ syuḥ sahasraśaḥ



Now, He is concluding about the topics of incarnation, that "There are innumerable incarnations of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can count." He is giving the example: just like nobody can count how many waves are flowing in the river or in the ocean, similarly, it is impossible to count how many incarnation are there.



prathamei kare kṛṣṇa 'puruṣāvatāra'

seita puruṣa haya trividha prakāra'



Now, the first avatāra, first incarnation, is the puruṣāvatāra. He divides Himself into three. This is stated in the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*:



viṣṇos tu trīṇi rūpāṇi

puruṣākhyāny atho viduḥ

ekaṁ tu mahataḥ sraṣṭṛ

*dvitīyaṁ tv aṇḍa*-saṁsthitam

*tṛtīyaṁ sarva*-bhūta-sthaṁ

tāni jñātvā vimucyate



*Tāni jñātvā vimucyate. Now, in the Bhagavad*-gītā you have read that,



janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



Anyone who understands about the appearance and disappearance of God or His incarnation, simply by understanding this, one is liberated. And that person who understands, after quitting this material body, no more he comes here, but he goes back to Godhead to become one of His associates. Such persons who knows about the incarnations, they are not impersonalists. Therefore they do not merge in the impersonal Brahman feature, but they go to the different spiritual planets.



*So viṣṇos tu trīṇi rūpāṇi: "That Viṣṇu, for the creation of this material world, takes into three forms, trīṇi rūpāṇi." Viṣṇos tu trīṇi rūpāṇi purusākhyāny atho viduḥ: "And all of them are known as puruṣāvatāras." Mahā*-Viṣṇu puruṣāvatāra, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu puruṣāvatāra and Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu puruṣāvatāra. They are called puruṣāvatāra. Ekaṁ tu mahataḥ sraṣṭṛ: "And the first puruṣāvatāra, who is called Mahā-Viṣṇu, He creates the material ingredients, which is called mahat-tattva." Everything requires ingredients. So the, I mean to say, original ingredients, the, what is called, subtle ingredients, they were created first by this Mahā-Viṣṇu. Then, from those ingredients, universes were produced. And each universe, ekaṁ tu mahataḥ dvitīyaṁ tv aṇḍa-saṁsthitam. The first puruṣāvatāra, Mahā-Viṣṇu, creates the ingredients, and the second Mahā-Viṣṇu enters in each and every universe. He is called dvitīya. And tṛtīyaṁ sarva-bhūta-stham: "And the third, He enters into the body of all living entities, Paramātmā, or the Supersoul." This is the division of three first incarnation.

*ananta-śakti*-madhye kṛṣṇera tina śakti pradhāna

'icchā-śakti', 'kriyā-śakti', 'jñāna-śakti' nāma



*Now, Kṛṣṇa has immense potencies, which are divided into three. What is that? Icchā-śakti, kriyā-śakti, jñāna-śakti. Icchā-śakti means His potency, whatever He wishes, that can be done, icchā. Kriyā-śakti: then activity, kriyā-śakti. And jñāna-śakti, knowledge, knowledge. In the Vedic literature it is said, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Just like one potency is working, producing flowers, producing flowers. We are seeing that a flower is being produced automatically, so nicely scented, so nicely colored. But because we are fools, therefore we think it is being produced automatically. No. It is produced by the kriyā-śakti, by the active potency of God, kriyā-śakti. Jñāna-śakti: and there is such perfect knowledge that nobody can see any defect. You see a butterfly, how it is nicely painted. You just see duplicate in both the wings. Just like an artist paint nicely, it is painted. So we think it is coming out of nothing. This is our foolishness. Here is, that it is coming out of the jñāna-śakti. But His jñāna is so wide that simply by His desire, simply by His will, it can be executed. These are the things to be studied. Because we cannot see something before our eyes, that does not mean there is no existence. There is existence, but we do not know how one is working, how one is working. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā.



*Just like you see the anatomical condition of your body. Now, how this body is produced, how nicely, that every mechanical arrangement, the eyes (piece?), and the...? Just like a big factory and big office. The brain is the office, and stomach is the factory, and it is creating energy, it is coming to the heart and another place... Just like soap factory. Sometimes, in some place, it is being, some part of the manufacture is finished, another... In this way it is going on. But it is coming out a small pea. And how it is developing. In everything you can see. You take a seed, how it develops, a great tree. How much potency is there. So svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca. Everything is being done. I do not know. I claim, "It is my body," but I do not know how even a hair is growing. I do not know how it is replaced. I cut in the morning, and the next day, I see again there is. So these things are going on. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. We have to study God's activity in this way, so many things, nature's study. So those who are intelligent, they can see that these things are working. What is that? Icchā-śakti, kriyā-śakti, jñāna-śakti, these three potencies of God, Kṛṣṇa, is working.

*icchā-śakti*-pradhāna kṛṣṇa-icchāya sarva-kartā

*jñāna-śakti*-pradhāna vāsudeva adhiṣṭhātā



*Now, out of these three different potencies, then Kṛṣṇa expands Himself also to conduct or to control or to act on these three potential power. The icchā-śakti, willing potency, that is being controlled by His expansion which is known as Vāsudeva. Icchā*-jñāna vinā nā haya sṛjana. Without desire and without knowledge, nothing can be created, nothing. Suppose we are manufacturing so many things. Now, the manufacturer is first of all thinking, willing, that "This sort of thing, if we manufacture, it will be very nicely sold in the market." That is icchā-śakti. Then he acts, acts on it. That is called jñāna-śakti. Without jñāna, without willing, nothing is produced. So whenever you find something produced, you must know, behind that production there is that will, the supreme will, the supreme knowledge. This is study. Icchā-śakti-jñāna...



*icchā*-jñāna vinā nā haya sṛjana

*tinera tina-śakti meli' prapañca*-racana



So this icchā-śakti, this potency of will, supreme will, and the potency of supreme hand and the potency of supreme knowledge, these three things are conducting all affairs in this material world.



*kriyā-śakti*-pradhāna saṅkarṣaṇa balarāma

*prākṛtāprākṛta*-sṛṣṭi karena nirmāṇa



And the potential activity, that is being done by the expansion of Saṅkarṣaṇa, either in this material world or in the spiritual world. So parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyat [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]e. In this way the Lord is working in so many ways, and because we have no knowledge, we think that "There is no brain behind it. There is no knowledge behind it. Everything is coming out automatically, and we are the master of everything." That is called illusion. So by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be free from this illusion, and you will know how God is working by His different potential power.



Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661217CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.255-281

-

New York, December 17, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*kriyā-śakti*-pradhāna saṅkarṣaṇa balarāma

*prākṛtāprākṛta*-sṛṣṭi karena nirmāṇa



So out of three transcendental propensities of the Supreme Lord, icchā-śakti, jñāna-śakti and kriyā-śakti, the kriyā-śakti, that is represented by, or the controller of the kriyā-śakti is, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Balarāma. And with that potency, kriyā-śakti potency, the creation, both material creation and spiritual creation, are effected.



ahaṅkārera adhiṣṭhātā kṛṣṇera icchāya

*goloka, vaikuṇṭha sṛje cic*-chakti-dvārāya



*Cic*-chakti-dvārāya. The spiritual potency is manifested in the spiritual world, Goloka Vṛndāvana and spiritual planets.



*yadyapi asṛjya nitya cic*-chakti-vilāsa

*tathāpi saṅkarṣaṇa*-icchāya tāhāra prakāśa



Actually, there is no creation in the spiritual world. The creation means it begins at a certain time and ends at a certain time, but in the spiritual world there is no such beginning. But because we find the creation of this material world by the kriyā-śakti potency of Lord, therefore it is understood that the spiritual world is also manifested by the same potency with the help of His spiritual energy.



*sahasra*-patraṁ kamalaṁ

*gokulākhyaṁ mahat*-padam

*tat*-karṇikāraṁ tad-dhāma

*tad anantāṁśa*-sambhavam

[Bs. 5.2]



*That original planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is described here in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, "just like a lotus flower."



*māyā*-dvāre sṛje teṅho brahmāṇḍera gaṇa

*jaḍa*-rūpā prakṛti nahe brahmāṇḍa-kāraṇa



*Now, so far this material creation is concerned, it is said here that "By His material potency, He manifests this material world and unlimited universes within the material world." So nobody should think that the material world has come out of nothing, out of void. No. This is confirmed in all Vedic literature and especially in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, and in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. So material nature is not independent. It is a misunderstanding, a wrong conception, that matter is working out of its own accord. Matter has no power to work. It is a jaḍa-rūpā. Jaḍa-rūpā means it has no moving capacity or, what is called, initiative. Matter has no initiative. Therefore matter cannot manifest in such a way without the direction of the Supreme Lord. Māyā-dvāre sṛje teṅho brahmāṇḍera gaṇa. Actually, it is His direction, but material potency is help only. That's all.



jaḍa haite sṛṣṭi nahe īśvara-śakti vine

tāhātei saṅkarṣaṇa kare śaktira ādhāne



Jaḍa haite, from matter there is no possibility of any creation. The Saṅkarṣaṇa, He is manifestation of Saṅkarṣaṇa, Balarāma. He is the director of this material creation.



īśvarera śaktye sṛṣṭi karaye prakṛti

lauha yena agni-śaktye pāya dāha-śakti



"Just like it is, in contact with the fire the iron becomes red hot and it become fire, similarly, in contact with Saṅkarṣaṇa, this material energy gets potency, and thereby the material manifestation is there."



*etau hi viśvasya ca bīja*-yonī

rāmo mukundaḥ puruṣaḥ pradhānam

anvīya bhūteṣu vilakṣaṇasya

jñānasya ceśāta imau purāṇau



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, in the Tenth Canto, it is stated that "This Rāma and Kṛṣṇa"-Rāma means Balarāma, and Kṛṣṇa-"They are the root of this material creation. And both of Them enters into each and every universe and maintains that." Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. This is mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*sṛṣṭi*-hetu yei mūrti prapañce avatāre

*sei īśvara*-mūrti 'avatāra' nāma dhare



"For material creation, the expansion of the Supreme Lord for the purpose of material creation is called incarnation. That is called avatāra."



māyātīta paravyome sabāra avasthāna

viśve avatari' dhare 'avatāra' nāma



"So all Viṣṇu expansions, they are in the spiritual world, and they all of them reside there. But when they come into this material world, it is called incarnation." Actually, avatāra... This Sanskrit name is avatāra. Avatāra means who comes down from the spiritual world. Avatāri. Avatāri means descends. Descends. They are not born of this material energy. They descend from the spiritual world.



*sei māyā avalokite śrī*-saṅkarṣaṇa

*puruṣa*-rūpe avatīrṇa ha-ilā prathama



*Now, puruṣa*-rūpe, the first incarnation for this material creation, the Mahā-Viṣṇu, sa aikṣata. Simply by His glance, this material world begins its activity.



*sei māyā avalokite sri*-saṅkarṣaṇa

*puruṣa*-rūpa avatīrṇa ha-ilā prathama



jagṛhe pauruṣaṁ rūpaṁ

bhagavān mahad-ādibhiḥ

*sambhūtaṁ ṣoḍaśa*-kalam

*ādau loka*-sisṛkṣayā



*Ādau loka*-sisṛkṣayā: "Just before the creation the Mahā-Viṣṇu, He takes His incarnation, and He puts His glance on the material energy, and the creation begins."



ādyo 'vatāraḥ puruṣaḥ parasya

*kālaḥ svabhāvaḥ sad*-asan-manaś ca

dravyaṁ vikāro guṇa indriyāṇi

virāṭ svarāṭ sthāsnu cariṣṇu bhūmnaḥ



*So ādyo avatāra, the first puruṣāvatāra, Mahā*-Viṣṇu, is very vast. Just imagine how much great He is, His body is, that from His breathing all these universes are generating.



sei puruṣa virajāte karena śayana

*'kāraṇābdhiśāyī' nāma jagat*-kāraṇa



"That puruṣāvatāra, the first incarnation of puruṣa, He lies down in the water of Causal Ocean, and His name is Kāraṇābdhiśāyī Viṣṇu."



*kāraṇābdhi*-pāre māyāra nitya avasthiti

virajāra pāre paravyome nāhi gati



*Kāraṇābdhi*-pāre. Just on the other side of the ocean, Causal Ocean, this material energy is situated. Virajāra pāre paravyome nāhi gati. And this material energy has no entrance in the spiritual kingdom.



pravartate tatra rajas tamas tayoḥ

*sattvaṁ ca miśraṁ na ca kāla*-vikramaḥ

na yatra māyā kim utāpare harer

anuvratā yatra surāsurārcitāḥ



*Now, the description of the spiritual world is that there is no rajas*-tamaḥ. These modes of passion and modes of ignorance is not there. Śuddha-sattva. Śuddha-sattva means simply goodness, pure goodness, without any tinge of passion and ignorance. So pravartate yatra rajas tamas tayoḥ sattvaṁ ca miśraṁ na ca kāla-vikramaḥ. There is no mixed goodness; *simply goodness. And na ca kāla*-vikramaḥ: "And there is no influence of time." This is the description of the spiritual world: "There is no modes of passion, and there is no modes of ignorance, and there is no influence of time." That means there is simply pure goodness. And in pure goodness we can understand our constitutional position: we can understand what is God, what is creation, everything. These are... Goodness means prakāśa. Prakāśa means knowledge comes out. And so long we are in ignorance and passion, there is no knowledge. In ignorance there is no knowledge at all, in passion there is some glimpse of knowledge, and in goodness there is full knowledge. So the living entities there, they are full of knowledge. Therefore they do not come into this material world. And na yatra kāla-vikramaḥ: and because there is no influence of time, therefore there is no past, present and future. In this material world there is influence of time. Therefore we have got this past, present and future.



So these things, of course theoretically we have to understand. But these are authentic explanation from scriptures, Vedic literatures. At least we have to accept them theoretically. The spiritual world means that there is no ignorance, there is no passion and there is no influence of time. Na yatra māyā kim utāpare: "And this māyā, this illusion, is also absent." Kim utāpare harer anuvratā yatra surāsurārcitāḥ: "And there, in the spiritual planets, all the living entities, they are all surrendered souls, or followers of the Supreme Lord." There is no misconception that "I am Lord; *I am God." There is no such misconception. They are all clear of this nonsense ignorance. Anuvratā: they are always following. Therefore there is unity, oneness. There is oneness. God is one, and the living entities there, they are all followers, obedient of God. There is no influence of time, no influence of ignorance, no influence of passion. So that is perfect. That is spiritual kingdom, the description of spiritual world. This is from Bhāgavatam. And there are other verses in this chapter where this verse appears that, I have read it, that there are aeroplanes also. And the devotees, and the woman, they are just like lightning. So it appears there are men, there are women, there are airplane. Everything is there. Simply difference is that there is no influence of time. Influence of time there is no*-that means there is no past, future and present, and there is no death. Death is the influence of time. An old man like me is going to die. Death means the influence of time is being acted on this body. So after a few days or few years, this must vanquish. So there is no influence of time.

So there is no death, there is no birth, there is no ignorance, and everyone is obedient, everyone is happy. And their features of body is also exactly like God. In the spiritual planets, all of a sudden if you go, you cannot distinguish who is God and who is not. Yes. Just like here also, when Kṛṣṇa comes, He appears just like one of us. So man is made after God. So so far features are concerned, there is no difference between God and man. But the difference is only that God has no material body; we have got this material body subjected to the influence of time. When Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not become old. He remains just like a boy even when He is great grandfather because on His body there is no influence of time. Because His body is spiritual, therefore there is no influence of time.

māyāra ye dui vṛtti-'māyā' āra 'pradhāna'

*'māyā' nimitta*-hetu, viśvera upādāna 'pradhāna'



This material energy is divided into two: pradhāna and upādāna. Pradhāna and upādāna. The whole, total material energy is called pradhāna, and the material elements are called ingredients, upādāna.



*sei puruṣa māyā*-pāne kare avadhāna

prakṛti kṣobhita kari' kare vīryera ādhāna



*Now, in the Bhagavad*-gītā you have read that mahad-yonir mahad-brahma tāsām... It is stated there that ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I implement the seeds of living entities into the matter." So in the matter the living, the seeds of living entities, as we are, they are impregnated. As the father impregnates the mother, similarly, this material nature is just like mother, and therefore material nature is worshiped as mother, goddess, mother goddess, Durgā, Kālī. Yes. And this worship of the country, nationalism, that is also the same matter-worship. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. So, so long we are not enlightened, we are worshiper of this matter, energy. And when we are advanced in knowledge, then we are worshiper of the Supreme. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means advanced stage of knowledge. It is not in the material platform. Therefore anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness appropriately and thoroughly, he is liberated from material consciousness.



*svāṅga*-viśeṣābhāsa-rūpe prakṛti-sparśana

*jīva*-rūpa 'bīja' tāte kailā samarpaṇa



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there is this evidence:



*daivāt kṣubhita*-dharmiṇyāṁ

svasyāṁ yonau paraḥ pumān

ādhatta vīryaṁ sā 'sūta

*mahat*-tattvaṁ hiraṇmayam



*So from this version of the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that the living entities as seeds they are coming from the spiritual world... They are not product of the matter. Therefore it is not possible to produce living entity with material chemicals and material elements. It is not possible. As some of the modern scientists, they claim that "We shall now give life," or they advertise in that way, so from this verse we can understand that it is not possible, because these living entities, they are just like seeds, and they are coming from the spiritual world, from the body of the Supreme. Those spiritual living entities are desirous of enjoying sense gratification, they are allowed to this material world, and others, they are in the spiritual world.



*kāla*-vṛttyā tu māyāyāṁ

guṇamayyām adhokṣajaḥ

*puruṣenātma*-bhūtena

vīryam ādhatta vīryavān



So there is another verse, that how the seeds are given within this material world:



*tabe mahat*-tattva haite trividha ahaṅkāra

*yāhā haite devatendriya*-bhūtera pracāra



Now, here is a short description of the creation. First, material energy; then the seeds of the living entities are impregnated into that material energy; *and then mahat*-tattva, from the material energy, the ego, false ego, comes out. First manifestation of this material world is this false ego, mahat-tattva. Trividha ahaṅkāra. Yāhā haite devatendriya-bhūtera pracāra: "And from this ego, all these human beings or demigods or other living entities, they are coming out."



sarva tattva mili' sṛjila brahmāṇḍera gaṇa

ananta brahmāṇḍa, tāra nāhika gaṇana



"In this way the Lord created unlimited number of universes." This one universe which you have seen, that is one only; but there are innumerable universes. That is created.



*iṅho mahat*-sraṣṭā puruṣa-'mahā-viṣṇu' nāma

*ananta brahmāṇḍa tāṅra loma*-kūpe dhāma



*"Now, the expansion of Kṛṣṇa who is doing all this material expansion, He is known as Mahā*-Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu."



gavākṣe uḍiyā yaiche reṇu āse yāya

*puruṣa*-niśvāsa-saha brahmāṇḍa bāhirāya



*Now here is a nice example. You have seen the sunshine entering your room through a hole of your window, and you will find so many atomic demonstration. So these brahmāṇḍas, the so many universes, they are emanating from the breathing of Mahā*-Viṣṇu in that way.



*punarapi niśvāsa*-saha yāya abhyantara

*ananta aiśvarya tāṅra, saba*-māyā-pāra



*In this way all the universes, they enter into the body of Mahā*-Viṣṇu after the creation is over and again comes out. In this way it is coming and going, coming... Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that they are coming and going within. This is the way of material nature. And here is another evidence from Brahma-saṁhitā:



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*Now, such a vast, gigantic Mahā*-Viṣṇu, of whose breathing producing these universes and whose inhaling, annihilating all the universes-such vast Mahā-Viṣṇu is only part and part of the expansion of Kṛṣṇa, or Govinda. So Brahmā says, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So just we have to imagine how much potential is the Lord Kṛṣṇa.



Thank you very much. (end)



661218CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.281-293

-

New York, December 18, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*Kṛṣṇa's first expansion, second expansion, the third expansion. The third expansion is Mahā*-Viṣṇu. So Mahā-Viṣṇu's potency is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya. Niśvasita-kāla means the breathing period. Just abiding by the breathing period of that Mahā-Viṣṇu, jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ means the supreme creature, created, supreme created creature, Brahmā. Brahmā is the principal supreme creature in each, every universe. There are innumerable universes, and there are innumerable Brahmās also.



*You will find in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, it is quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that one sometimes... It is called līlā, pastimes, that Brahmā, when Kṛṣṇa was here on this planet, so Brahmā was very much proud that "Kṛṣṇa is now in the earthly planet, and this earthly planet is one of the innumerable planets under my control." Brahmā is the controller, is the primal, principal living entity in this universe, so he was little proud that "Kṛṣṇa is within my control." So therefore Kṛṣṇa, because He is Paramātmā, He knows everything, what one thinks, what one does. So Kṛṣṇa asked Brahmā to come and see Him. So Brahmā came. Brahmā came. His doorman informed Kṛṣṇa that... Doorman asked Brahmā, "Who are you, please?" "Now, you say Kṛṣṇa that I am Brahmā. I have come to see Him." So when the doorman informed Kṛṣṇa that in Dvārakā, when Kṛṣṇa was there as king, so Kṛṣṇa asked, "Oh, which Brahmā? Which Brahmā?" The doorman came back again and informed that "Which Brahmā you are?" So Brahmā became astonished: " 'Which Brahmā?' I am the Brahmā. I am the supreme creature within this universe, and 'Which Brahmā?' " He was surprised, and he said, "Tell Kṛṣṇa that four-headed Brahmā." Brahmā has four heads. So Kṛṣṇa called him, "All right, come on." So he came, and he offered his obeisances, and Brahmā asked Him, "Kṛṣṇa, my Lord, may I ask You some question?" "What is that?" "Your doorman asked me, 'Which Brahmā?' So does it mean there are other Brahmās also?" Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, there are innumerable Brahmās. You are only four-headed. There are eight-headed, there are sixteen-headed, thirty-headed, sixty-four-headed, hundred-twenty-eight-headed, and millions of headed. So all right, I am calling them all." So Kṛṣṇa called all the Brahmās, and by His māyā, Brahmā could see them, but they could not see this four-headed Brahmā, and each of them came and offered obeisances to Kṛṣṇa, and they asked, "My Lord, what can I do for You? You have asked me?" "Yes. I have not seen you for so many times, so many days, so I have called you." So they came, thousands and millions of Brahmās came, and offered obeisances, and they went away. And this Brahmā, four-headed Brahmā, remained in the corner, "Oh, what is I am?" So this is Kṛṣṇa's creation.

*So here it is stated that yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. "Only just abiding by the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu"-there are millions of Brahmās-"they are living." And each Brahmā's period... That you have read in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. The Brahmā's one day means 4,300,000's times 1000. That is Brahmā's twelve hours. Similarly, twenty-four hours, one day. Now calculate one month, such one years, such hundred years. So that hundred years of Brahmā is only a breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu, just like we are breathing, our inhalation and exhalation is going on. So during the breathing period, when the breathing is out, all these brahmāṇḍas become created, and when it is inhaled, all, they are closed, account closed. So this is going on. And such Mahā-Viṣṇu is the part, one of the fourth part of Kṛṣṇa's expansion. That is stated. Lord Caitanya is giving evidence from Brahma-saṁhitā:

*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*"I worship that Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, whose fourth dimension, fourth expansion, is Mahā*-Viṣṇu, in whose breathing period all these Brahmās, or the principal head of each brahmāṇḍa, they live."



*samasta brahmāṇḍa*-gaṇera iṅho antaryāmi

*kāraṇābdhiśāyī*-saba jagatera svāmī



*"Now, this Mahā*-Viṣṇu, the puruṣāvatāra, incarnation of puruṣa, of Kṛṣṇa, is the principal Supreme Personality of Godhead of all the brahmāṇḍas, all the many thousands of brahmāṇḍas."



eita kahiluṅ prathama puruṣera tattva

dvitīya puruṣera ebe śunaha mahattva



*Now, He said, "Now I have explained to you about the first incarnation, avatāra. Now just try to hear about the second, second Viṣṇu." First Viṣṇu is described. Now second Viṣṇu, what is that? Sei puruṣa: "That Mahā*-Viṣṇu," ananta-koṭi brahmāṇḍa sṛjiyā, ananta-koṭi, "innumerable universes came out of His breathing period by breathing." Sṛjiyā means "He created." Ekaika-mūrtye praveśilā bahu mūrti hañā: "Now, this Mahā-Viṣṇu again expanded Himself in millions and millions Viṣṇu form and entered in each brahmāṇḍa." The same Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, expanded Himself in millions other forms.



*praveśa kariyā dekhe, saba*-andhakāra

rahite nāhika sthāna, karilā vicāra



"When He entered in each universe, it was all dark. So He began to think."



*nijāṅga*-sveda-jale brahmāṇḍārdha bharila

sei jale śeṣa-śayyāya śayana karila



*Now, in each brahmāṇḍa... This universe, what we are seeing, it is only half. Half is full with water. And where is that water, we cannot see. But there is water. Just like a ball, and half the ball, inside, is filled with water. So and wherefrom this water came? Viṣṇu, the Viṣṇu which entered each universe, from His perspiration He created this water. And He laid down on the water. This is called Śeṣaśāyī Viṣṇu or Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Tāṅra nābhi*-padma haite uṭhila eka padma: "And then He created one lotus flower from His navel." You have seen that picture in the title page, title cover. Nābhi-padma. Sei padme ha-ila brahmāra janma-sadma: "And from that lotus flower, on that lotus flower, the Brahmā, the first created being, was manifested."



*sei padma*-nāle ha-ila caudda bhuvana

teṅho 'brahmā' hañā sṛṣṭi karila sṛjana



*And this Brahmā is a living being, jīva*-tattva. He is not Viṣṇu-tattva. Just see how much a living being can be powerful. 'Now, Brahmā was created by this Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and Brahmā in his turn, he created all these planetary systems." There are fourteen status of planetary system, caudda bhuvana: Bhūrloka, Bhuvarloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapoloka, and similarly, there are fourteen planetary systems all over this universe.



*'viṣṇu'*-rūpa hañā kare jagat pālane

*guṇātīta viṣṇu*-sparśa nāhi māyā-sane



"Now, this Viṣṇu has nothing to do. He is not affected by this material contamination." That is the power of Viṣṇu. Just we are living entities. When we come into this material world, we become contaminated, we become affected by the influence of this material nature. But Viṣṇu, although He is looking after the management of creation of this brahmāṇḍa, He is not affected. He is not affected.



*'viṣṇu'*-rūpa hañā kare jagat pālane

*guṇātīta viṣṇu*-sparśa nāhi māyā-sane



*'rudra'*-rūpa dhari kare jagat saṁhāra



*And when these material worlds or universes are to be annihilated, the same Viṣṇu in His form of Lord Śiva, Rudra*-rūpa, He annihilates. So Viṣṇu creates, and Lord Śiva annihilates, and Brahmā is in charge of this universe.



*brahmā, viṣṇu, śiva*-tāṅra guṇa-avatāra

*sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralayera tinera adhikāra



*Now, this material world is created, it is, it stays for some time, and it is again annihilated. Just we have seen in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is the nature. This material nature is like that. Just like you have seen one lamp. Once it is extinguished; *once it is light. Similarly, there is creation, there is maintenance and there is annihilation of this material world. Now, these three functions are controlled by three guṇāvatāras, qualitative incarnation of the Supreme Lord. What are they? Now, Viṣṇu... Viṣṇu is the incarnation of the modes of goodness, and Śiva is the incarnation of the modes of annihilation, and Brahmā is the in*-charge. Brahmā is secondary. Brahmā is the secondary creator. First of all, the everything is, the principle, the material principle ingredients and the guṇas and the everything is created by Viṣṇu. Then, the secondary creation, with those ingredients, all these planetary system, everything, is created by Brahmā. So Brahmā is also a secondary creator. And then Viṣṇu maintains. Just like to a carpenter you give wood and planks and materials and screw and other thing, and the carpenter makes a very good cabinet, and you maintain that, similarly, this brahmāṇḍa, the secondary creation, is Brahmā, and Viṣṇu is the maintainer, and when it is to be destroyed, it is destroyed by Lord Śiva. These three guṇāvatāras. Brahmā, viṣṇu, siva-tāṅra guṇa-avatāra. They are incarnations of Kṛṣṇa's guṇa. So in other words, it is to be understood that these three guṇas, they are also coming from Kṛṣṇa, three guṇas. So therefore, for Kṛṣṇa, there is no such distinction.



Several times just I have explained this thing, but this material, spiritual, or the qualitative differences, that is for us, not for Kṛṣṇa. How it is? Just like government has got different departments. There is criminal department, civil department, and this department, that department, so many departments. Now, for us the criminal department may not be so pleasing or civil department may be very much pleasing, but for the government both the departments are equal because they have to maintain equally, either criminal department or the civil department. The government has no distinction that "This is criminal department; *therefore this department should be neglected," or "It is inferior." No. Rather, in criminal department the government may spend more than civil department. Similarly, these distinctions, these qualitative distinctions, matter, spirit, and the different kinds of modes, they are distinction for us, not for Kṛṣṇa. He is Absolute. He is Absolute. To the Absolute, there is no such distinction. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa comes, when Kṛṣṇa comes in this material, He is not affected by this. Suppose the minister, the secretary of the president, goes to the criminal department to see the prison house. He is not affected by the prison rules. It is simple to understand. If the prisoner thinks, "Oh, he is also one of the prisoners because he has come here," this is nonsense. He is not prisoner. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes in this material world, if a foolish man thinks that he is also one of us, he is foolish number one. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ: [Bg. 9.11] "Foolish persons, they think that I am one of them." These examples are very nice. We can understand.

So here it is stated that Viṣṇu...,

*brahmā, viṣṇu, śiva*-tāṅra guṇa-avatāra

*sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralayera tinera adhikāra

*hiraṇyagarbha*-antaryāmi-garbhodakaśāyī

'sahasra-śīrṣādi' kari' vede yāṅre gāi



In the Vedas there is a prayer, Sahasra-śīrṣā. That is very famous prayer. That prayer is offered to this Viṣṇu. Which Viṣṇu? The Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the Viṣṇu who has entered in every universe, that Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu.



*ei ta' dvitīya*-puruṣa-brahmāṇḍera īśvara

*māyāra 'āśraya' haya, tabu māyā*-pāra



*Although this Viṣṇu is the shelter, shelter of the material energy, still, He has nothing to do with this material energy. He is free from the contamination of material energy. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there is a verse: apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ māyāṁ ca yad apāśrayam. When Vyāsadeva, he was just attempting to write Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by bhakti-yoga, he saw two things: apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam. He saw the Supreme Personality and the material energy, apāśrayam, just far away from Him. Because this māyā's task is very thankless task. Māyā's task is very thankless task because she is in charge of these conditioned souls, and her business is to give all the conditioned souls always miseries. Trisura. You have seen in the hand... You might not have seen, but there is a picture of Durgā, she has got three, trisura. Trisura means three kinds of miseries. So the māyā, this material nature, is inflicting upon the conditioned soul always three kinds of miseries so that they can come to their consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the conditioned souls are so foolish and so dull, they have accepted, "Oh, these miseries are very palatable." Yes. They have no sense that they are always in three kinds of miseries: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. This is constantly going on. Just like in the prison house, when the prisoners are there, it is not meant that they should be comfortably situated there. The prison house (is) meant for giving them always some trouble so that they can come to their consciousness that "We have broken. We are lawbreakers. Therefore we are punished here." But if the prisoner becomes so fool that "All right. Don't care for this prison. Let me finish this term and again commit nuisance and again come to the..." That is going on.



*So gatāgataṁ kāma*-kāmā labhante. So the conditioned souls, they are not coming to the sense that what is their position. This position, by the grace of some special representative of the Supreme Lord or by the Supreme Lord, is offered to these conditioned souls, that "This is not your place. You are part and parcel of God. Your place is in the kingdom of God. Your place is there. You are..." Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: [Bg. 15.7] "You are struggling very hard within this material nature. Just try to understand your position." So these things are described in scriptures, in the Vedas, so that these foolish conditioned souls may come to their senses and try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make their life successful so that they can go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661219CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.294-298

-

New York, December 19, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*tṛtīya*-puruṣa viṣṇu-'guṇa-avatāra'

*dui avatāra*-bhitara gaṇanā tāṅhāra



*virāṭ vyaṣṭi*-jīvera teṅho antaryāmī

*kṣīrodakaśāyī teṅho*-pālana-kartā, svāmī



So Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu; *then next Viṣṇu, the third incarnation, is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Within this universe there is a planet near the polestar which is called Kṣīrodakaśāyī planet, and there Lord Viṣṇu in His incarnation of antaryāmi, Supersoul... He is acting as the Supersoul. And He is the universal form. When you think of universal form of the Lord, that is the manifestation of this Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And that Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu as Paramātmā, Supersoul, is situated in everyone's heart, even within the atom also. Aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Paramāṇu means atom. Within the atom also. We think of God as very great, universal form, but God can take also form less than the atom. That is God's power. He is not only great, greatest, but He is the smallest. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Mahato mahīyān means greatest of the great, and aṇor aṇīyān, the smallest of the small. We cannot think how small He can become. That is His inconceivable potency. So within this material world, He is within the atom, and He is within everyone's heart, in everywhere, all-pervading, and at the same time universal form, the biggest form.



*virāṭ vyaṣṭi*-jīvera teṅho antaryāmī

*kṣīrodakaśāyī teṅho*-pālana-kartā, svāmī



*Now, He is the maintainer of... Whatever we are enjoying, it is due to His mercy. In the Kaṭhopaniṣad, er, Māṇḍūkyopaniṣad, it is stated, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Now, He is the supplier whatever we want. So as pālana*-kartā, as the maintainer, as the Supersoul, He is supplying. He is supplying whatever you want: "All right." So we should not approach God as supplying agent. That is the lowest stage. He is supplying even to the cats and dogs. Then what is the difference between human being and the cats and dogs? Just like a small child, he is supplied all necessities by the father, but when the child is grown, he wants to serve the father, similarly, to make God as order-supplier, "O God, give us this. Give us that..." God is giving. You ask or not ask, He will give you because, after all, you are all children. So He takes care of His children. But you may say that "Why the childrens are differently treated? Somebody is supplied sumptuously, and somebody is not. Why this difference of treatment?" That difference of treatment is also for good. How? Just like a mother has got five children. One of them is suffering from fever, is ill. Now, very nice foodstuff is prepared. All the children come, and mother is supplying. And when the feverish child comes, "Oh, you don't sit here. You cannot take." "Why?" "Oh, you are diseased. You cannot take." Do you think that mother is partial to this child and that child? No. Anyone who is not supplied as he wants, that is due to his own disease, chronic. So if God does not supply him sufficiently, it is good for him. Therefore, in spiritual advancement a poor man is in more advantage because he can think of God. Provided he is virtuous, he will think of God. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna.



So this supplying, God is supplying. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one... There are two living entities, one Supreme and others; one singular number, other plural number. We are amongst the plural number, nityo nityānām. Nityānām, this is plural number, "Amongst many eternals." So we are amongst the many eternals. We are also eternal. We have got that qualitative, I mean to say, thing. Eternity is the same quality as of God, as of ours. We are eternal; God is eternal. That's all. But we are amongst the plural number. Nityo nityānām. And He is the singular number. And it is particularly stated that eko, that singular number, eternal puruṣa, He is supplying everyone's necessities. So God is supplying everyone's necessities. Either you are cat or dog or demigod or President Johnson or anyone, everyone is dependent on God's supply. We cannot be independent. If God stops supplying, you cannot manufacture. If there is food grains, there is no food grain, you cannot chew your dollar notes. What you will do (with) your hundred dollar notes? So He is the supplier. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.

*So we should be... This is knowledge of God. We should be in love of God, means "Oh, God has supplied us so many things." Why not? Therefore pure devotees, they like to supply God. They want to become order*-supplier of God, not to make God as order-supplier. What God wants? God wants that make everyone God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. He sends His son. He sends His books. He comes Himself. That is His mission. He wants that all these suffering living entities, they should become Kṛṣṇa conscious and be happy. God wants it. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated. So if you wants to supply the want of God, God wants it. If you become yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious and try to serve God by spreading this mission all over the world, that is the best service. That is the best service to Lord, to become yourself a field worker, field worker. God is very much anxious to get back His, these mad sons. In this material world everyone is mad, crazy. It is a difference of degrees only. I may be more crazy than yourself, but we are all crazies. And as soon as we are fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, our craziness is vanished. Yes. That is our constitutional position. The part is to serve the whole. We are part and parcel. So this is a chance. This manifestation of this material world is a chance to have that opportunity. And especially this human form of life is a, the boon for understanding this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If we miss this opportunity, then we are unfortunate. Unfortunate.

puruṣāvatārera ei kailuṅ nirūpaṇa

līlāvatāra ebe śuna, sanātana



*Now I described about the three puruṣa incarnations. What is that? Mahā*-Viṣṇu... Yes. Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu, or Mahā-Viṣṇu; then Garbhodakaśāyī, or Hiraṇyagarbha; Kṣīrodakaśāyī or the Supersoul, antaryāmi. The three Viṣṇu incarnation description is finished. Now He is trying to explain līlāvatāra, pastimes. God has got all propensities. So if He wants to fulfill some propensity, then He comes here to exhibit, to manifest that. Just like God comes here, just Rāmacandra, Lord Rāmacandra. And what was the main function of Lord Rāmacandra? He fought with Rāvaṇa, His enemy. So this is called līlā. What is that līlā, līlā pastime? When God wants to have some desire to fulfill, that "I should fight..." Sometimes you sometimes feel mock fighting with friends or with your children. Similarly, wherefrom this desire comes unless the desire is in God? Because He is the origin of all, everything. So don't you feel sometimes, mock fighting? That is enjoyment, fighting with friends, boxing. That is not fighting. That is enjoyment. Similarly, God wants to enjoy by fighting. So Vaikuṇṭha, there is no fighting because nobody can be found there enemy. Everyone is obedient servant. Therefore He comes here to find out some enemy. The two functions are served. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. He satisfies His fighting spirit; at the same time, He protects the devotees and protects that enemy also by killing him. Because when a demon is killed by the Supreme Lord, he is at once liberated. The liberation which he had to achieve after many, many births, he at once achieves. That is the advantage. So He saves the enemy and saves the devotee, and at the same time, He satisfies His fighting desire. So God is good. So any fight, that is also good. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is inducing, inciting Arjuna, fight. There is a plan, big plan. So foolish people who criticize, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is inciting war. We are very good men, nonviolence." So this "good man" has no value. That fighting has much value. But there is a plan, good plan. So this is called pastime, līlā, līlāvatāra.



*So what are the līlāvatāra? Lord Caitanya says, līlāvatāra kṛṣṇera nā yāya gaṇana: "How many number of līlāvatāras are there, nobody can count." God is unlimited, so anything manifested by Him is unlimited. That cannot be calculated by us. So there are so many līlāvatāra. Pradhāna kariyā kahi dig*-daraśana: "Some of them I am just mentioning." Nobody can fully calculate or understand how many līlāvatāras are there and where it is going and how it is going on. But it is going on. The same example, that the sun is always in the sky. Now, where it is, that you have to find out. But sun is always in the sky. Similarly, the līlāvatāra is always there. Just like Kṛṣṇa. In this planet Kṛṣṇa is not present, but in some of the universe He is present. His avatāra is going on, is going on. In every minute, every second, He is taking His birth and He is fighting in the Kurukṣetra. That is called nitya-līlā, eternal. His everything eternal. He is eternal; whatever He does, that is also eternal. And because we are conditioned, we cannot understand His eternity, His unlimitedness. But He's unlimited; His everything is unlimited.

So Lord Caitanya confirms that how many līlāvatāras, incarnations, are there. We want to everything make limited because we are all limited sense, limited understanding, limited... Everything is limited, and God is unlimited. That we do not understand. We try to understand God with our limited means. That is our folly. Therefore we don't believe. "Oh, God is doing like that? Oh, God is lifting hill? How it is possible? This is story." How? Why it is story? God is omnipotent, and God cannot lift a hill? He is floating so many planets in the air, weightlessness, and He cannot lift a hill? Because I do not believe He is God. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā: [Bg. 9.11] "Foolish rascals, they consider Me as ordinary man: 'Not Kṛṣṇa, but me. You offer your respect to me. I am God. I am competitor Kṛṣṇa.' " So these are foolishness. He is unlimited; His everything, He is unlimited.

Now Lord Caitanya (is) mentioning some of these main features of these līlāvatāra.

matsya, kūrma, raghunātha, nṛsiṁha, vāmana,

*varāhādi*-lekhā yāṅra nā yāya gaṇana



Some of the principal avatāras, they are mentioned. Matsyāvatāra. During Vaivasvata Manu there was devastation, and in that devastation, Lord took Matsyāvatāra, incarnation of fish, and He protected the *Vedas*.



*pralaya*-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedaṁ

*vihita*-vahitra-caritram akhedam

*keśava dhṛta*-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare **



*The poet Jayadeva, a great devotee poet, is singing that "In the devastation, my Lord Keśava, You have assumed the form of fish." A great muni was sitting. He was meditating. And after taking his bath in the ocean, in the sea, he brought one pot of kamaṇḍalu. Kamaṇḍalu, that pot, you have seen. He found a little fish there. Then, within few seconds, that fish covered all the pot, and the muni thought, "Oh, He is growing so rapidly. All right, let Him have some big pot." So he gave Him big pot. Then again He became full. Then in this way he had to put it in the ocean, and He became oceanlike. Then he understood that He is God. So this is Godly power. He can take the shape... As the ocean is big, so He'll take and take this bigger*-than-the-ocean form. But He is the maker of all forms. He has made ocean. But is it very difficult to understand how God becomes fish? That does not mean that every fish is God. No. So there is Matsyāvatāra.



*pralaya*-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedaṁ

*vihita*-vahitra-caritram akhedam **



*Similarly, He took the incarnation of tortoise, Kūrma. There was a churning of the ocean, and the churning rod must be rested on something solid. So He became the churning rod, resting. And the hill, Mandara Hill, was placed, and He was feeling some itching sensation. So it was nicely itched by churning rod. So this is... He is Kūrmāvatāra. Then Raghunātha. Raghunātha. Raghunātha, this Rāma, Lord Rāma, He came to kill that daśanana, who had ten faces. Vitarasi dikṣu raṇe dik*-pati-kamanīyam. So in this way there are innumerable incarnation of pastime. Nṛsiṁha. Nṛsiṁha.



*tava kara*-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgaṁ

*dalita*-hiraṇyakaśipu-tanu-bhṛṅgam

*keśava dhṛta*-narahari-rūpa jaya jagadīśa hare



*Nṛsiṁha. Nṛsiṁha means half*-lion and half-man, and this shape was assumed by the Lord to kill Hiraṇyakaśipu, the father of Prahlāda. Prahlāda was a great devotee of Lord, and his only fault was that he was a great devotee. His father wanted to kill him. So it is very dangerous also to become devotee. Even the father will be prepared to kill you. You see? The mother will be prepared to kill you. And what to speak of others, complaining, "O Swamijī, you are disturbing our sleep."



So although we have made our friendship with Kṛṣṇa and He will always protect us, but at the same time this devotional line is risky also, that we create so many enemies. There are many examples in the history of this devotional service that unnecessarily people become enemy to these innocent devotees. Even a innocent boy like Prahlāda Mahārāja, five years old. But a devotee cannot give up his profession. You see? He was being chastised so many times by his atheistic father, but what Prahlāda Mahārāja was doing? Oh, because he was king, he ordered the teachers that "This boy is coming home and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is this nonsense?" Teachers were asked. Teachers said, "My dear sir, we do not teach Hare Kṛṣṇa. According to your regulation, we are secular. (laughter) There is no possibility of teaching God or God's name. This boy, I do not know wherefrom he has got this Hare Kṛṣṇa." (laughter) Oh, he became very angry: "Where you have got your Hare Kṛṣṇa?" "Father, from where you have got your anger, I have got that Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) He is the supplier. You want to be angry; He supplies anger. And I want to chant." Oh, he becomes more angry. So, but that boy, what he was doing? That teacher was forbidden, secular, and the father was enemy. Still, he was taking some opportunity as soon as the teacher is out: "O my dear friends, come on. I shall speak to you Hare Kṛṣṇa and the science." So this should be our, your policy. Whenever there is some chance, just preach this, whenever there is chance. But you should always know that you will find enemies, but you don't be afraid. Go on with your work.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was such a nice devotee. And to protect him when he was just going to be killed by his father... And his father was very good politician. He took benediction from Brahmā that he will not be killed by anyone. Means by policy he took benediction from Brahmā that "I shall not be killed by man." "Oh, yes." "I shall not be killed by demigods." "That's all right." "I shall not be killed by any animal." "That's all right." "I shall not be killed in day." "That's all right." "I shall not be killed at night." "That's all right." "I shall not be killed by any weapon." "That's all right." And he said, "Now it is finished. Everything is now secure. I cannot be killed in day. I cannot be killed at night. No man can kill him (me). No demigod can kill me. No animal can kill me. Then where is the killing? Everything finished." But God is so cunning that He assumed neither man nor animal, and no weapons. He killed him with the nails. He never expected that "I will be killed by the nails." This is the definition by negation, defective definition. In argument, if you define negatively, "This is not this. This is not this. This is not this," then something will come that will nullify all your arguments. So he protected himself in all negative ways: "This will not. This will not. This will not. This will not." Something came which was not in his power. So this Nṛsiṁhāvatāra.

Then Vāmanāvatāra. Vāmanāvatāra, I have already mentioned, that He became a dwarf brāhmaṇa boy and took all the possession that Mahārāja Bali. This Mahārāja Bali was grandson of this Mahārāja Prahlāda. So these are līlāvatāra pastimes. Pastimes means exchange of dealing between the devotees and the Lord, between the living entities and the Lord, exchange. Either there are twelve kinds of humor, rasas... Sometimes He deals as enemy; sometimes He deals as friend; sometimes He deals as so many things. There are twelve. So we are all related with God in some humor out of these twelve, either as enemy or as friend or servitor or lover or as son or father, as the master and servant. In so many ways we are related. And when these relationship is exchanged between God and the living entity, that is called līlā, līlā, pastimes. So līlāvatāra. We shall explain again to...

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661220CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.298

-

New York, December 20, 1966



Prabhupāda:



matsya, kūrma, raghunātha, nṛsiṁha, vāmana

*varāhādi*-lekhā yāṅra nā yāya gaṇana



*Now Lord Caitanya is describing about līlāvatāra. So they are some of the names of the līlāvatāra. There are innumerable līlāvatāra, but these are some of the names: Matsya, Kūrma, Raghunātha, Nṛsiṁha, Vāmana, Varāhādi. In Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there is a verse in which some of the names of the līlāvatāra is mentioned:



*matsyāśva*-kacchapa-nṛsiṁha-varāha-haṁsa-

*rājanya*-vipra-vibudheṣu kṛtāvatāraḥ

tvaṁ pāsi nas tribhuvanaṁ ca tathādhuneśa

bhāraṁ bhuvo hara yadūttama vandanaṁ te



*So all these incarnations, especially this līlāvatāra, līlā incarnation, they come, they descend on this material world, to settle up some disturbances by the demons. There are two classes of men in this world, the deva and the asura. Deva means those who are devotees, those who are conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are called deva, gods, demigods. And demigod does not mean that something extraordinary. They are also living entities like us, but they are completely Kṛṣṇa conscious, and therefore they have got unlimited power, and they are entrusted with some of the management of this material world. They are called deva. And the asuras, demons, atheists, they are not entrusted. They are simply meant for creating disturbances. So when the atheist class, the number of atheist class, increases, at that time it becomes intolerable for the devas and the gods to remain here because the asuras can create much disturbances. So at that time, indrāri*-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ mṛḍayanti yuge yuge [SB 1.3.28]. Indrāri. Indra means the head of the demigods. When his enemies are increased and create disturbance, these līlāvatāras, they come. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām: [Bg. 4.8] "Just to deliver the faithful and to annihilate the unfaithful," yuge yuge sambhavāmi, "I come in every millennium."



*līlāvatārera kailuṅ dig*-daraśana

guṇāvatārera ebe śuna vivaraṇa



*Now Lord Caitanya says, "I have mentioned some of the līlāvatāra. Now, Sanātana, you just hear from Me about guṇāvatāra." Guṇāvatāra means the incarnation of the material qualities. There are three qualities in the material world: goodness, passion and ignorance. So each quality is controlled by the Supreme Lord Himself by His expansion of different incarnation. Brahmā, viṣṇu, śiva-tina guṇa avatāra. Now on these three qualities, material modes of nature, the heads are Brahmā-Brahmā, the first living creature, Brahmā-and Viṣṇu-Viṣṇu, God Himself*-and Śiva, Lord Śiva. Śiva's position is between Brahmā and Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is God, and Brahmā is living entity. Gradation. Living entities, they are also parts and parcels of God. Śiva is also part and parcel of God. Viṣṇu is also part and parcel of God. But there are degrees of power. That we have already discussed. Kṛṣṇa is cent percent, Viṣṇu is ninety-four percent, Śiva is eighty-four percent, and we living entities, we are seventy-eight percent. So tri-guṇa aṅgīkari' kare sṛṣṭy-ādi-vyavahāra. They have nothing to do with these material modes of nature. Just like a person in charge of the criminal department or jail department, but we should not think that he is also one of the prisoners because he is in charge of the jail department. No. Similarly, Śiva, Lord Śiva, he is in charge of the modes of ignorance, but he is not ignorant. He is the most enlightened devotee of Lord. He has got a paramparā, disciplic succession, which is called Viṣṇu Svāmī-sampradāya. There are four sampradāyas of great devotees of Lord: one from Brahmā, one from Śiva, and one from Lakṣmī, and one from the Kumāras. So Lord Śiva, although he is in charge of the department of the modes of ignorance, but he is not ignorant. You should not mistake that. Similarly, Brahmā is also in charge of this passionate department, creative initiation. This, whatever we are creating, the creative incentive, that is from Brahmā, passion. And ignorance, they neither create... They simply destroy. And Viṣṇu, He has taken the charge of maintenance, because without God nobody can maintain us. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: "One personality, one eternal personality, He maintains all other plural eternities." We are also eternities, but we are maintained by Viṣṇu. Even Brahmā is also maintained by Viṣṇu, and Śiva is also maintained by Viṣṇu. So these are three qualitative incarnations: Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Śiva.



*bhakti*-miśra-kṛta-puṇye kona jīvottama

*rajo*-guṇe vibhāvita kari' tāṅra mana



Now, what is the constitution of Brahmā? Brahmā... Just there are so many innumerable living entities. If some of them, they are devotee, but they want to enjoy this material world... They want to enjoy. So they are devotee for taking some favor for God and want to enjoy this material world. He is called Brahmā. Brahmā's constitutional position is that.



*bhakti*-miśra-kṛta-puṇye kona jīvottama

*rajo*-guṇe vibhāvita kari' tāṅra mana



*garbhodakaśāyi*-dvārā śakti sañcāri'

*vyaṣṭi sṛṣṭi kare kṛṣṇa brahmā*-rūpa dhari'



Sometimes such pious living entities are not available, so sometimes Kṛṣṇa Himself becomes Brahmā and for maintenance, for creation...



*bhāsvān yathāśma*-sakaleṣu nijeṣu tejaḥ

svīyaṁ kiyat prakaṭayaty api tadvad atra

*brahmā ya eṣa jagad*-aṇḍa-vidhāna-kartā

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*Now, Brahmā's description is given here, that bhāsvān yathāśma*-sakaleṣu nijeṣu tejaḥ. Just like valuable stone... The example is very nice, valuable stone, just like diamond. Diamond has got power to illuminate. And what is this diamond? The diamond is made by the interaction of sunshine. All these valuable stones, they are products of sunshine. So as the diamond has got power of shining power, it is derived from the sun, or diamond, the moon also, it derives power from the sun, similarly, Brahmā, although he is very powerful, he is known as creator of this universe, but he is just like diamond. He inherits power from the Supreme Lord, so he becomes powerful. Bhāsvān yathāśma-sakaleṣu nijeṣu tejaḥ. That is simply a bit of power. Just like a diamond, diamond also illuminating, but it is not original luminous. Original luminous is sun, and the illumination expanded by diamond is not so valuable as the sunshine. Similarly, Brahmā, although we see him so powerful, he has little power derived from the Supreme Lord. That is the example given here.



kona kalpe yadi yogya jīva nāhi pāya

āpane īśvara tabe aṁśe 'brahmā' haya



Kona kalpe. Kalpa means the duration of one creation. This material creation, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], it is created at a certain interval, and it stays for some time. Again it is annihilated. So again, at the time of creation, if somebody is not available, then the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, He becomes Brahmā Himself.



*yasyāṅghri*-paṅkaja-rajo 'khila-loka-pālair

*mauly*-uttamair dhṛtam upāsita-tīrtha-tīrtham

brahmā bhavo 'ham api yasya kalāḥ kalāyāḥ

śrīś codavahema ciram asya nṛpāsanaṁ kva



So,



*nijāṁśa*-kalāya kṛṣṇa tamo-guṇa aṅgīkari'

*saṁhārārthe māyā*-saṅge rudra-rūpa dhari



*Similarly, sometimes, when Śiva is not available... Śiva is available. Nijāṁśa*-kalāya kṛṣṇa tamo-guṇa aṅgīkari'. Now Kṛṣṇa, the Lord Himself, when He accepts the management of these modes of ignorance, He is called Śiva. So Śiva, Śiva is God, but because he is in the department of ignorance, therefore his name is Śiva. He makes śiva. Śiva, another meaning of śiva is "auspicious." These inauspicious persons who are in ignorance, for them, Śiva worship, worship of Lord Śiva, is recommended so that gradually they come to the modes of passion and goodness, and then they are liberated. So nijāṁśa-kalāya kṛṣṇa tamo-guṇa aṅgīkari', saṁhārārthe. But his business is destruction. When there is some destruction in this material world, you should know that is the action of Śiva. Perhaps you have seen one statue that is very popular, sold in antique shops-Naṭarāja, dancing and fire, all round there is fire. When Śiva begins to dance, his dance is very serious. As you dance, kṛṣṇa-kīrtana, so similarly Śiva also dances for annihilation. There is fire. By his dancing, there will be fire. Saṁhārārthe māyā-saṅge rudra-rūpa dhari. Māyā-saṅge. He has got connection with this material energy, and he is meant for destruction. Material energy is under the, I mean to say, control of this Śiva-rūpa of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is called father. He is called father, and the material energy is called mother. Father and mother, Durgā.



*māyā*-saṅga-vikāri rudra-bhinnābhinna rūpa

*jīva*-tattva haya, nahe kṛṣṇera 'svarūpa'



And because he has connection with this illusory energy, therefore he is not exactly God. God has nothing to do with this material energy, illusory energy. He is never illusioned. But Śiva, Lord Śiva, he has connection with Durgā, the material energy. Therefore his position is between the living entity and Kṛṣṇa.



*Now Lord Caitanya is quoting one verse from Brahma*-saṁhitā about the real position of Śiva:

*dugdha yena amla*-yoge dadhi-rūpa dhare

dugdhāntara vastu nahe, dugdha haite nāre



A very nice example. Just like if you mix up with milk something sour and it turns into yogurt or curd, similarly, the difference between Śiva and Lord Kṛṣṇa is like that. He is Kṛṣṇa, but because he is mixed up with this material energy, therefore he is something like that yogurt. So yogurt, the constitutional position of yogurt is nothing but milk, but it cannot become milk again. Once turned into yogurt, there is no possibility of turning into milk. Neither you can derive the benefit of milk from yogurt. Yogurt is used for some purpose; *milk is used for some other purpose. Similarly, those who are worshipers of Śiva, they cannot derive the same benefit as persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you cannot derive the same benefit by drinking, by taking yogurt. If you require milk, if I supply you yogurt, it will give another, I mean to say, disturbance. Similarly, the distinction is given here, and He is quoting from Brahma*-saṁhitā, most authoritative literature in this connection.



*kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi vikāra*-viśeṣa-yogāt

sañjāyate na tu tataḥ pṛthag asti hetoḥ

[Bs. 5.45]



Śiva is not different from Kṛṣṇa, but it is added with this material energy. Therefore Śiva has turned into yogurt.



yaḥ śambhutām api tathā samupaiti kāryād

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*But somebody is required for destruction, so that destruction part is taken by Śiva, and he is charge of this tamo*-guṇa.



*'śiva'*-māyā-śakti-saṅgī, tamo-guṇāveśa

*māyātīta, guṇātīta 'viṣṇu'*-parameśa



Therefore Viṣṇu and Śiva, the difference is that Viṣṇu is never in touch of this illusory energy, or material energy, but Śiva is in intimate touch with the material energy. That is the difference between Śiva and Viṣṇu.



*śivaḥ śakti*-yuktaḥ śaśvat

*triliṅgo guṇa*-saṁvṛtaḥ

vaikārikas taijasaś ca

tāmasaś cety ahaṁ tridhā



harir hi nirguṇaḥ sākṣāt

puruṣaḥ prakṛteḥ paraḥ



*Now, Hari, Viṣṇu is beyond this material world. That is accepted by Śaṅkarācārya. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa, Hari... Although Śaṅkarācārya is impersonalist, but he has accepted Nārāyaṇa, Hari, the Supreme Lord, as beyond this material infection. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. And he has also agreed to accept Kṛṣṇa. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. That Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. It is accepted by Śaṅkarācārya. Those who are reading the commentary by Śaṅkarācārya on the Bhagavad*-gītā, he will find in the beginning of that nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ. So it is also confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that harir hi nirguṇaḥ sākṣāt: "Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is beyond the touch of this material qualities." Therefore His body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His body is not made of this tri-guṇa. Our, this material body is made of these three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Those who have got this body from the modes of goodness, they are called brāhmaṇas, or the most intelligent persons. And those who have got their body from the modes of passion, they are called kṣatriyas. They have got creative initiation. And those who are mixed, they are called vaiśyas, or the mercantile community. And those who have got purely body from modes of ignorance, they are called śūdras. So harir hi... But Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is beyond this. He is transcendental. Harir hi nirguṇaḥ sākṣāt puruṣaḥ prakṛteḥ paraḥ.



Prakṛteḥ paraḥ means... Prakṛti means nature. This material nature, He is beyond this material nature. Prakṛteḥ paraḥ.

*sa sarva*-guṇa upadraṣṭā

taṁ bhajan nirguṇo bhavet



*The advantage is that if you want to get release from the infection of these three guṇas, three qualities, then you have to render devotional service to the Lord. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nirguṇo bhavet. Nirguṇa, when there is mention of nirguṇa, nirguṇa does not mean quality*-less. Nirguṇa means without these contaminous three qualities of material nature. There are transcendental qualities. Those transcendental qualities... You have got the list, twenty-six qualities of the devotee. Those are transcendental qualities. Those transcendental qualities are in God as well as in the living entity. But when the living entity comes in contact with material nature, those transcendental qualities are covered by the material qualities. So they are not manifested. But as soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, those transcendental qualities automatically develop. Because they are already there.



*It is stated that... What is that? The idea is that these qualities are already there. Nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. These qualities are not acquired. The transcendental qualities are not acquired. Rather, these material qualities are acquired. But transcendental qualities are there in minute particles. As the transcendental qualities are there in God, similarly, transcendental qualities are in living entities also. But when they are covered by these material qualities, the material qualities which we exhibit in the material world, that is acquired. But transcendental qualities are not acquired. So nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. They are not acquired. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. Those transcendental qualities again revive themself by this process: śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. As you purify your heart by this process of hearing transcendental messages from Godhead, as your heart becomes purified, those transcendental qualities automatically develop. And when fully developed, it is called nirguṇa, nirguṇa, without any material quality. That nirguṇa stage can be obtained, can be achieved, in touch with the nirguṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is stated, sa sarva-dṛg upadraṣṭā taṁ bhajan. Bhajan. Bhajan means by rendering devotional service to Him, that Supreme Lord, you get revived your transcendental qualities. And when you revive your transcendental qualities, that means you are liberated, you are happy, you are transferred to the spiritual world.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661221CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.313-317

-

New York, December 21, 1966



Prabhupāda:



harir hi nirguṇaḥ sākṣāt

puruṣaḥ prakṛteḥ paraḥ

*sa sarva*-dṛg upadraṣṭā

taṁ bhajan nirguṇo bhavet



Nirguṇo bhavet. The liberation from material bondage is called nirguṇa. Nirguṇa means the three qualities, three modes of material nature, is nullified. As soon as we are transcendental to the three modes of material nature, that is called liberation. So just like there is injunction in the Vedic literature: to live in the city is rājasika; to live in the forest is sattvika, goodness. Sattvika quality means to live in goodness is to live in a forest. Therefore formerly, all the sages and saints, they used to live in a forest. Still there are many transcendentalists, they live in the forest, because forest is considered to be situation in goodness. Similarly, those who live in cities and villages, in society, human society, that is rājasika. And those who live in the liquor shop and similar, gambling shop and other, they are called tamasika.



*So this goodness, passion and ignorance, the division. And how to nirguṇa? When you live in a temple of Kṛṣṇa, that is nirguṇa. That is transcendental. So if you live in a society like this, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are nirguṇa. You are above the qualities. It is far better than to live in the forest or in the city. Those who are in touch with the supreme nirguṇa... Nirguṇa means transcendental to the material modes of nature. So nirguṇo bhavet. Sa sarva*-dṛg. Harir hi nirguṇaḥ sākṣāt. Nirguṇa means only Viṣṇu is nirguṇa, above the transcendental, above these material modes of nature. It is accepted by all the authorities. Even Śaṅkarācārya, he says, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. Avyakta. So far this material nature, manifested and nonmanifested, what we see, this is manifested. And then it is... Nonmanifested stage is there, covering, covering of the universe. Oh, then that space is far, far greater than, ten times greater than this space. That is avyakta. And above that avyakta stage... Avyakta means nonmanifested. Vyakta avyakta. This is vyakta, this is manifested. Certain space is manifested, and certain space is nonmanifested. So this is called vyakta and avyakta. Śaṅkarācārya says that Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is vyaktāvyaktāt sanātanaḥ. Similarly, it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā also. So Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, He is God. He is nirguṇa, transcendental to these three guṇas. They cannot affect. The three guṇas cannot affect. So similarly, those who are in touch with Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are also nirguṇa. They are also transcendental to the three material modes of nature. This is from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, quotation by Lord Caitanya.

*So we have to accept these authorities, quotation from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Vedic literature, and quoted by authority, Lord Caitanya. We have to follow in that way. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Therefore we have to accept this, that if we be engaged in devotional service of the Supreme Lord, then we are transcendental to these material modes of nature. Therefore anyone who is so engaged, he is liberated. He is liberated. Officially he is liberated. But if he falls down by the attraction of these three modes of nature, that is a different thing. That is possible. That is possible if we are not strong enough because... Always remember that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a sort of declaration of war with this illusory material nature. So there is war. She will always try to get you fall down. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. It is very strong, powerful. How you can save yourself? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you persistently simply adhere to the devotional service of Kṛṣṇa, there will be no more strength of this illusory nature to drag you. No more. There will be no more power to get you into this province of sense gratification. Material nature means the jurisdiction of sense gratification. That's all. Simply people are engaged by sense gratification like cats and dogs. That's all. This is material atmosphere. And in the spiritual atmosphere there is no sense gratification; there is only activity for satisfying the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference.

*So if you adherently be always engaged in some sort of service, twenty*-four hours in the service of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no power in the world who can drag you into this sense gratification province. You at once become nirguṇa. This is the process. So we have to stick to this principle: "How I can serve Kṛṣṇa always, always?" Īhā yasya harer dāsye. If you cannot do, if you simply think, "How can I do? How can I do? How can I do?" simply this, if you practically cannot do, but if you simply think that "How can I do?" oh, then also you become liberated. Then also you become liberated. And what to speak of when we actually serve. This is such a nice thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you want to save yourself from this material turmoil, then always stick to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness persistently. Yes.

*pālanārtha svāṁśa viṣṇu*-rūpe avatāra

*sattva*-guṇa draṣṭā, tāte guṇa-māyā-pāra



*svarūpa*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa, kṛṣṇa-sama prāya

kṛṣṇa aṁśī, teṅho aṁśa, vede hena gāya



*Now, these Viṣṇu, Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, although He is in this material world... There is a planet-I have already explained to you*-it is called Kṣīrodaka planet, or where the oceans are of milk ocean. So in that planet Lord Viṣṇu is there, within. But He is not within this material world. Just like even a devotee who is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not in this material world, how Viṣṇu, the Supreme, He can be in the material world? He is not in the material world. Just like outside there may be snow falling, but inside, if you are protected by heating system and other things, you are not affected. The whole city may be overwhelmed by snow falling, but if you are protected by certain means and adjustment, then you are not affected. Similarly, Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu-bhakta, they are not affected by this material nature. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Therefore foolish creatures, when they see Kṛṣṇa is here, they think that "Kṛṣṇa is like one of us." But He is not. So here it is stated, pālanārtha svāṁśa viṣṇu-rūpe avatāra. He is providing. Bhūta-bhṛt. Kṛṣṇa's name or Viṣṇu's another is Bhūta-bhṛt. He is providing our necessities. Always know that. This is also another knowledge. Don't think that you are producing your foodstuff, you are producing your necessities. No. You cannot do anything. He is providing. God is giving you. God is giving you. So you should always remember that pālanārtha. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Eko, that one supreme eternal, He is providing all the necessities of so many, innumerable living entities. Don't you see? We are mad after economic development from morning to late at night. In our cars, in our trucks we are going hither and thither. But there are many, many millions of living creatures; they have no economic problem. Who is providing them? Who is providing them? Providing, Kṛṣṇa is providing them. Viṣṇu is providing them.



*pālanārtha svāṁśa viṣṇu*-rūpe avatāra

*sattva*-guṇa draṣṭā tāte guṇa-māyā-pāra



He is, although in this material world, He is transcendentally situated. He has nothing to do with this material world.



*svarūpa*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa, kṛṣṇa-sama prāya



*Kṛṣṇa*-sama prāya. Now, I have already told you. Prāya means He is almost like Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa is cent percent, He is 94%. Therefore it is said, kṛṣṇa-sama prāya. All these Viṣṇu-mūrti, They are kṛṣṇa-sama prāya, or almost like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa aṁśī. The difference is that Kṛṣṇa is the original teṅho aṁśa and this Viṣṇu is plenary expansion. This is the difference between Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa. How it is? Somebody may say, "Oh, Lord Caitanya is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and you are all devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are saying that Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead." No. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find, Kṛṣṇa Himself says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti kiñcid: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more supreme than Me." "All right, He may say personally. He may advertise Himself." But there are many instances in the Vedic literature. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,



dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya

*dīpāyate vivṛta*-hetu-samāna-dharmā

yas tādṛg eva hi ca viṣṇutayā vibhāti

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.46]



"Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, He is the original, and from Him all other Viṣṇu expansions are emanated." How it is that? Just like this is a lamp, original. Now you can, I mean to say, ignite another lamp, another lamp, another lamp, another lamp, another lamp. Now, all these lamps, they are equally powerful so far the luminous quality is concerned, but you have to accept, "This is original lamp." Similarly, all these Viṣṇu expansions, they are almost like Kṛṣṇa, a little difference, but... Kṛṣṇa, what is that difference? That also we can note. When Kṛṣṇa was here, He was completely..., He manifested Himself as completely free from any rules and regulation, any rules and regulation. But other incarnation, when They come, They follow the rules and regulation.



*Just like Lord Rāmacandra. When He came, He accepted only one wife, accepted only one wife. And even when that wife was banished... You know that. Sītā. Sītā. He (She) was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, and Lord Rāma fought with him, killed the whole family and installed his brother in that kingdom and rescued Sītā and brought home. So He was living with Sītā. But some of the śūdras, they criticized, "Oh, just see Rāmacandra. He is king. He is very powerful. He is living with His kidnapped wife." Because in India once a woman goes out of home-still the culture is*-you cannot be..., she cannot be accepted any more. She has to live just like prostitute. She has no shelter. But when this, I mean to say, popular opinion was there... But He was king. He has to take the criticism of the public. Just like at the present moment the president, they don't care for public opinion, irresponsible. They say, "Responsible government." They are most irresponsible. But formerly, although there was monarchy, they were very much responsible. As soon as there was some criticism from the public, Rāmacandra at once banished Sītā: "Oh, I cannot live with Sītā. Public opinion is against it." Just see. He is following the rules and regulations. His father told Him, "My dear boy, I wish that instead of being enthroned, please go to the forest." "All right, it is your order. I must carry." Just see. He is following the principle. He is ideal... Rāmacandra is ideal king means He has followed the principle of moral codes. But Kṛṣṇa's behavior, you will find there is no moral code. He is free. At night He is calling girls, "Come on," and dance with Him. They were coming. From material point of view it is immoral, at least in India. But He is free. Rāmacandra accepted one wife. He accepted sixteen thousand wives.

*So Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is above everything. No rules and regulation. He cannot do anything wrong. He is not under the jurisdiction of any law. Therefore Kṛṣṇa manifested the full power of the Supreme Lord. And other incarnations, although they came, they came for the time being to perform a certain particular purpose, but they did not manifest the full power of God. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. It is confirmed in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam that He is the Supreme Personality, original Personality of Godhead. He is nobody's under control. Even He was not controlled by His supreme lover Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is considered... The gopīs are considered the topmost lover of Kṛṣṇa. But when Kṛṣṇa decided to leave Vṛndāvana, oh, they began to cry. They blocked the way. Kṛṣṇa didn't care, went away. Went away. He didn't care even. So much dear Rādhārāṇī. They became blind, crying, crying, crying, crying, whole life. But Kṛṣṇa never returned. Never returned. He sent His message, He sent His letter, that "I am very sorry, but..." That is God. He is not controlled by anything. Anything. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. So,

*brahmā, śiva-ājñā*-kārī bhakta-avatāra

*pālanārthe viṣṇu*-kṛṣṇera svarūpa-ākāra



*Therefore all demigods, including Śiva, Brahmā and everyone, they are only order-carrying servants. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta you will find one passage, that "Only master is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone-never mind what he is*-is servant, is servant." Everyone is servant. And what to speak of us. We are servant's servant's servant. Therefore anyone who understands this philosophy, that "I am servant's servant's servant's servant, hundred times, million times lower servant," he is a liberated person. And one who thinks that "I am God," he is a dog. He is a dog. And one who thinks, "I am servant, God's servant's servant's servant, million times servant's servant," he is liberated. He is liberated. This is the process. Gopī bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Lord Caitanya, He said that "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not a Christian. I am not a Hindu. I am not a sannyāsī. I am nothing of this sort." Then what You are? "I am the servant's servant's servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is My identification." And when you identify yourself in that way, you are liberated. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Thank you very much. Any question? (end)





661222CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.318-329

-

New York, December 22, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*sṛjāmi tan*-niyukto 'haṁ

*haro harati tad*-vaśaḥ

*viśvaṁ puruṣa*-rūpena

*paripāti triśakti*-dhṛk



*This is a quotation from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam in which Brahmā, the creator of this particular universe, he says that "I am engaged, I am appointed, by the Supreme Lord." So the creator and the annihilator, Śiva, they are appointed agents of the Supreme Lord. They are not Supreme. Sṛjāmi tan-niyukto 'haṁ haro harati tad-vaśaḥ. Tad-vaśaḥ means we are under the control of the Supreme Lord. Nobody is free or independent. Only Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. You have this statement in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Ninth Chapter, that "Nobody is greater than Him." And another version is there, na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody is equal or greater than Him." There are so many statements in the Vedic literature.



*So here is also another statement from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. This was spoken by Brahmā to his disciple Nārada. Nārada questioned him that "So far we know, that you are the supreme, but you also sometimes meditate and worship somebody." So in that connection Brahmā explained that "We are not supreme. We are all appointed agents. Supreme is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Viśvaṁ puruṣa-rūpeṇa paripāti triśakti-dhṛk. Viśvam, this cosmic manifestation, is being maintained by His threefold energies. Triśakti-dhṛk. Triśakti means three kinds of energies. When it is materially conceived, the three kinds of energies are the modes of goodness, the modes of passion and the modes of ignorance. And when they are spiritually conceived, the same three kinds of energies are manifested as spiritual potency, material potency and marginal potency. So anyway, the Lord is always full with different kinds of energies, of which these three are main divisions.

manvantarāvatāra ebe śuna, sanātana

asaṅkhya gaṇana tāṅra, śunaha kāraṇa



*Now Lord Caitanya has explained about... Out of six kinds of incarnations, He has explained to you the incarnation of puruṣāvatāra, three, then līlāvatāra, then guṇāvatāra. Three kinds of incarnations are already explained. Now the remainder, three kinds of incarnations, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, and śaktyāveśāvatāra, He is going... Out of that three, first the manvantarāvatāra, Manu... So Lord Caitanya says that "I shall now explain to you about the manvantavatāra." And He says, manvantarāvatāra ebe śuna, sanātana: "My dear Sanātana, just now I shall explain to you about the manvantarāvatāra. You hear it." Asaṅkhya gaṇana tāṅra, śunaha kāraṇa: "And this manvantarāvatāra... So far other incarnations are concerned, we have somehow counted three or say ten, like that. But here, when we speak of manvantarāvatāra, they are countless." Asaṅkhya. Asaṅkhya means countless. Nobody can count how many manvantarāvatāras are there. How it is so? He is explaining. Brahmāra eka*-dine haya caudda manvantara: "In one day of Brahmā, in one day of Brahmā..." That you have calculated according to Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Brahmaṇo, or Brahmā, arhat. Arhat means one day, twelve hours. What is that twelve hours according to our calculation? Sahasra-yuga-paryantam, sahasra, one thousand yugas. And what is the duration of yuga? Four million, three hundred thousands of years, one yuga. Such one thousand, that makes Brahmā's one day, twelve hours. Similarly night, twelve hours. Similarly one month. In this way he has got hundred years' duration of life.



Now, this one day, twelve hours, within this twelve hours, there are fourteen Manus. Twelve hours of Brahmā means 4, 3, five zero, eight zero. What is that, 4, 3, eight zeroes? What is the calculation according to your arithmetic, 4, 3, eight zeroes? Huh?

Hayagrīva: 4,300,000,000.



Rūpānuga: Four billion three hundred and eight.



Prabhupāda: 4, 3, eight zeroes.



Devotee: 4,300,000,000.



Rūpānuga: Yes. That's right.



Prabhupāda: Four billion...



Rūpānuga: ...three hundred million.



Prabhupāda: 4,300,000,000. That's all right. Within that 4,300,000,000's divide into fourteen. That is the duration of one Manu. Four billion, three hundred millions divide into fourteen. That will make... That one part is the duration of a Manu.



So anyway, fourteen Manus are taking place in one day of Brahmā.

*brahmāra eka*-dine haya caudda manvantara

ei caudda avatāra tāhāṅ karena īśvara



*They are also incarnation of the Supreme Lord. Caudda eka dine, māse cāri-śata biśa. If in one day of Brahmā there are fourteen Manus, then in one month of Brahmā it comes to cāri-śata, 420. Thirty days a month. So 420 Manus in one month of Brahmā. Brahmāra vatsare pañca*-sahasra calliśa. Similarly, in one year of Brahmā there is 5,040 Manus in one year, and he lives for hundred years. So 5,040 Manus in one year. Now hundred. So 5,040 plus two zeroes. So it comes to pañca-lakṣa cāri-sahasra manvantarāvatāra. Pañca-lakṣa means fifty millions. Not fifty millions. Ten millions a lakṣa. That means five millions and four thousands of Manus are there in one Brahmā's life. Five million and four hundred thousand of manvantarāvatāra, incarnation of Manu, in one brahmāṇḍa. And Lord Caitanya... Ananta brahmāṇḍe aiche karaha. And there are innumerable brahmāṇḍas, universes. Now you can calculate how many Manus are there. Therefore you cannot calculate. He said, "innumerable."



ananta brahmāṇḍe aiche karaha gaṇana

*mahā*-viṣṇu eka-śvāse brahmāra jīvana



*And all these Manus and Brahmās, they are living only on the breathing period of Mahā*-Viṣṇu. Mahā-viṣṇura niśvāsera nāhika paryanta. And just imagine what is that breathing? Eka manvantarāvatārera dekha lekhāra anta.



*So in one breathing of Mahā*-Viṣṇu, you cannot calculate how many Manus are there. This is called unlimited. We say "unlimited," but we should have some knowledge how it is unlimited. There is no question of counting the energies displayed by the Supreme Lord in so many ways. Because we cannot explain something, we dismiss the whole thing. "There is void, nothing. Void." Because my mind, my intelligence, cannot go so far, we say, "Perhaps, maybe it was like this." So this is all mental speculation. And how we can say? Now, the opposite party may say, "How you can say?" Now, we have got evidence from the Vedic literature. But the other party, they have no evidence. They are simply speculationist. We can give some evidence. The Vedas are accepted by ācāryas, and they are following, and they are getting the result. So therefore, śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. There are three kinds of evidences. Out of that, śruti-pramāṇa, evidence from higher authorities, that is the first-class evidence. What are those evidence? Pratyakṣa, aitihya and śruti. Pratyakṣa means direct perception. Direct perception, that is evidence. People with poor fund of knowledge, they want direct perception of everything. That is not possible. Direct perception of everything is not possible. Therefore aitihya. Aitihya means historical, historical, paramparā, hearing, traditional. And the next first-class evidence is śruti. Śruti means to hear from the authority. That is śruti. Just like the example we have several times cited here that the evidence "Who is my father?" that evidence is to hear from my mother. That's all. There is no other evidence. The mother says that "This is your father. He is your father." This is śruti, hearing from the mother, authority. And we have no other authority to understand father. Similarly, we have to understand our supreme father from the śruti mother, Vedas mother, mother Vedic mother. We have to accept Vedas as mother, śruti. The Vedas are considered as mother, and the Purāṇas are considered as sister. That is explained. So, śruti-pramāṇa, śruti-pramāṇa.

*mahā*-viṣṇura niśvāsera nāhika paryanta

eka manvantarāvatārera dekha lekhāra anta



Simply one manvantara in one universe, we cannot count how many manvantaras are there, and what to speak of...? There are innumerable, uncountable universes, and there are so many manvantarāvatāras.



*Now He is giving the names of Manus. Just like the sun, the present sun*-god, is named as Vivasvān, similarly, in every planet there are heads: sun-god, moon-god, heavenly god, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, Vāyu, so many, thirty-three koṭi. Koṭi means ten millions. Such thirty-three million demigods are there, and each of them has got a separate planet, and their names are similarly there. So here Lord Caitanya is giving some of the names of the Manu. You cannot count how many Manus are there, but for one day the fourteen Manus are named, and that is given here. Svāyaṁbhuve 'yajña', svārociṣe 'vibhu' nāma. A different period of Manus are differently named. So the fourteen names are Yajña, Vibhu, Satyasena, Hari, fourth; *then Vaikuṇṭha, Ajita, Vāmana, Sārvabhauma, Ṛṣabha, Viṣvaksena, Dharmasāvarṇye, Sudhāmā, Indra*-sāvarṇya, Bṛhadbhānu. In this..., fourteen Manus. Bṛhadbhānu. I will answer your question.

yugāvatāra ebe śuna, sanātana

*satya*-tretā-dvāpara-kali-yugera gaṇana



Now yugāvatāra. We have finished manvantarāvatāra. This is fourth. Puruṣāvatāra, līlāvatāra, guṇāvatāra, and the manvantarāvatāra, fourth. Puruṣa incarnation, and then quality, modes of nature, three modes, so guṇāvatāra, then līlāvatāra. Then manvantarāvatāra we have finished. Now Lord Caitanya is explaining about the yugāvatāra, incarnation in every millennium, yuga. What is that?



yugāvatāra ebe śuna, sanātana

*satya*-tretā-dvāpara-kali-yugera gaṇana



*Now, there are four yugas. Each yuga is divided into four: Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara, Kali. This is the Kali, this age we are passing. Similarly, these four yugas, such thousand four yugas, when passed away, then one twelve hours of Brahmā is finished, when such thousand four yugas passes away. So satya*-tretā-dvāpara-kali-yugera gaṇana. So each yuga is divided into four. Satya-yuga is about eighteen lakhs. Eighteen lakhs means 1,800,000's of years. That is Satya-yuga, 1,800,000's. And the next yuga, Tretā, is 1,200,000's of years; and the next yuga, Dvāpara, 800,000's of years; *and this Kali*-yuga is 400,000's of years, 432,000's of years. Out of that, five thousands of years we have already passed. Now, there is balance: 427,000 years, there is balance of this Kali-yuga. And the symptoms of Kali-yuga we have already seen, how it is.



*So the more we will pass this Kali*-yuga, the symptoms will be more acute, intolerable. So we should care. We should take care of this so that we may not come back again to this Kali-yuga. (laughter) You see? This life should be utilized. Now we are conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. It should be so utilized that no more coming back to United States of America and no more coming back of this condemned earthly planet. That should be the aim. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. We have to be determined to go back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, where going nobody will come to this condemned place. One should know that this is a condemned place. Unless one is fully convinced that this is a place, condemned, one cannot make progress. If he is satisfied with this condemned condition... Just like these Bowery Street men, they are lying on the footpath. They are satisfied. Condemned condition, but they are satisfied. We should not be satisfied in that way. That is very wretched condition. So we are all in wretched condition under the grip of material nature, always suffering threefold miseries. So we should be conscious. Unless we are conscious about this fact, then our human life is spoiled. They say that you spiritualists, you are very pessimistic. Yes. He should be pessimistic. There is no question of being optimistic. Where is the optimistic view?

*So unless one becomes very much pessimistic of this material world... Actually, they are, but they want to forget. Somebody is trying to forget it by liquor. Somebody is trying to forget by LSD, and somebody is marijuana, or gañja. But that forgetfulness will not save you. You have to actually forget it, that "This is a condemned place," and you cannot forget this unless you have got ideal place before you. Therefore this śruti*-pramāṇa, the Vedic knowledge, will give you: "Here is your ideal place, Kṛṣṇa. Come back to Kṛṣṇa. Try for it. Try your best for this." That is the life. That is human life. And unless one is not conscious to this platform, he is defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are born ignorant. And if we are educated more, more, more into the platform of ignorance, then our life is all defeat, parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to spiritual consciousness... "What I am? Why I am suffering? Is there any remedy? How I can save me?"-these questions should arise. This is called brahma-jijñāsa. The Vedānta-sūtra explains this brahma-jijñāsa. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Athāto: "Now. Now it is the time for you to inquire about your Brahman realization, of your Brahman life." That Brahman life begins when we understand that "I am not this material body. I am spirit soul." That is brahma-jñāna. And one who has got this knowledge, he is brāhmaṇa. He is brāhmaṇa. One who has actually attained this knowledge, that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul," that is brahma*-jñāna.

*Now, simply to have brahma*-jñāna is not sufficient. When you act like Brahman, that is called Vaiṣṇava. That is Vaiṣṇava. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. To understand yourself, that you are not this body, you are Brahman, and when you act factually in that Brahman stage, that is called bhakti. Bhakti. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ ca (yo) 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*So as soon as you begin your activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you at once come to the stage of Brahman. And the more you execute functions for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, the more you realize yourself and more you are well*-situated in spiritual life. And kaunteya prati... I was discussing. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. The Lord declared through Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, declare it to all the world that anyone who is My devotee, he will never be destroyed." So we should take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously and try to execute it thoroughly under the guidance of the śruti-pramāṇa. The Vedic literatures are there. Everything is there. We should utilize it.



Thank you very much. Any question? Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: You spoke of the energy of the Lord as being threefold... (end)





661223CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.330-335

-

New York, December 23, 1966



*Prabhupāda: So we have discussed the different names of Manu, the father of man. In different millenniums there are different Manus, and the present Manu is Vaivasvata Manu. Out of the fourteen Manus, now it is, the eighth Manu is going on at the present moment. That means this is about one o'clock in the day of Brahmā, just past noon. It is going to be afternoon. And during Brahmā's sleeping time all these planets will be, I mean to say, not annihilated, but inundated, you see, devastation with water. So after the finishing of these fourteen Manus here will be evening, night, and there will be devastation, and half of this universe, up to the sun planet, or above that, everything will be covered with water. Instead of air, there will be water. Then again there will be again... This is kaṇḍa*-pralaya. And mahā-pralaya means, when Brahmā dies, then everything is finished.



*So these fourteen Manus we have mentioned yesterday. Now yugāvatāra. Yugāvatāra means just like there are four yugas: Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara, Kali. The ages of each yuga we have mentioned already. Now in the Satya*-yuga, when the yugāvatāra comes, He is white. He is Hayagrīva in the Satya-yuga, as white as our Hayagrīva brahmacārī. Yes. He is white. And rakta. Śukla-rakta-kṛṣṇa-pīta-krame cāri varṇa. In the Satya-yuga when the incarnation of yugāvatāra comes, His complexion is white. And in the next yuga, Tretā-yuga, the complexion is red. And the next yuga, Dvāpara-yuga, the complexion is black, Kṛṣṇa. And the next, Kali-yuga, the complexion is yellow. Lord Caitanya is yellow.

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*In this age, Kali*-yuga, this is the yugāvatāra, Lord Caitanya. And His description is mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Five thousand years before, it was mentioned that kṛṣṇa-varṇam. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam means that He is in the category of Kṛṣṇa. Svayaṁ-kṛṣṇa. You can take the meaning of kṛṣṇa-varṇam like this. Varṇa means a caste or classification. So He is in the classification of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Or if you don't take that meaning, then kṛṣṇa-varṇam means He is always chanting "Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati. Varṇayati means chanting. So kṛṣṇa-varṇam, always engaged in Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So this is the first feature. The symptoms of the yugāvatāra of this age is given like this, kṛṣṇa-varṇam. Either you can say that He is varṇayati... Varṇayati means describing only Kṛṣṇa. Lord Caitanya preached... His preaching mission was ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanaya, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the only worshipable object. And He was always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. This is the first symptom of Lord Caitanya.



*Kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣā akṛṣṇam. By complexion He is akṛṣṇa. Akṛṣṇa means not kṛṣṇa, not black. Not black, you may take, if not black, then it may, as there are four colors, so He may be white, He may be red, He may be yellow. Now, out of these three colors, in the Satya-yuga white is already done. And in the Tretā-yuga red is already appeared. Then the balance is pīta. Kṛṣṇa is also done. Then the pīta, the yellow. So therefore His color is very golden colored, yellow. Lord Caitanya's complexion not exactly white like you, but He was golden color, golden with yellowish tint, a very nice complexion, Lord Caitanya's. He is... Therefore His name is Gaurāṅga. Gaurāṅga means white complexion. Another name is Gaurasundara, "very beautiful." So kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32]. Tviṣā, tviṣā means by complexion akṛṣṇa, not kṛṣṇa. Although He is Kṛṣṇa, His complexion is not kṛṣṇa. Then next? Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. He is always accompanied by His associates. You will see in the picture. There is Nityānanda Prabhu, there is Advaita Prabhu, there is Śrīvāsa, and always He was... From the beginning, when He was a child... Not child. When He was a boy, He started the saṅkīrtana movement. You see the picture: He is surrounded. And throughout whole, so long He lived, He was present on this world, that was... He was surrounded by this Hare Kṛṣṇa party. Sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. This is the yugāvatāra of this age.

Now, kalau, kalau, "in this age," especially meant. Now, how to worship Him? Does He require any grandeur, any throne or any decoration? No. Nothing. Anywhere and everywhere you can worship Him. How? Saṅkīrtanaiḥ, this chanting. Keep the picture of Lord Caitanya with His associates, this, as picture we are painting, we have got, and any part of the world, you sit down and go on chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma... So no expense, no nothing. This is the recommendation for this age. Therefore this picture and this sound vibration should be preached all over the world. And rest assured there will be peace and prosperity. This should be the mission of this society, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Lord Caitanya's mission. He ordered,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Para*-upakāra means "do good to others." "You are born in Bhāratavarṣa. You are not meant for exploiting others. You are meant for doing good to others." That is His mission. Para-upakāra. Para-upakāra means "Do good to others." It is specially mentioned, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra. Bhārata-bhūmite, in this land of Bhāratavarṣa, one who has taken his birth as a human being... Human being. "I am not talking," Lord Caitanya said, "I am not talking of others, less than human being. Anyone who has taken his birth as human being..." Janma sārthaka kari. Janma sārthaka. How? How to make your life perfect? Now, just you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.



So He advised every Indian that this is the mission of Indian mission. Because in this age all over the world there will be hopelessness, now this mission should be started from India. That was His prediction. This mission should be started, and the Indians should take responsibility for starting this mission all over the world. And they will be happy. There will be too much unhappiness in this age, and by spreading this mission there will be happiness. That is His prediction. So it is not a manufactured thing. We are just following the footprints of Lord Caitanya. So let us follow it nicely. There will be peace and prosperity all over the world. Yes.

*So in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam there is quotation when Kṛṣṇa was born. It is the system of Vedic system. There are ten kinds of saṁskāras, reformation. And how much careful this Vedic civilization is, that a child will be born and he is taken care of since the day of the, I mean to say, joining, conjugation of the father and mother. Garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. How much they were expecting that a good son will come, and he will be so good that the society will be happy, the country will be happy, the world will be happy. Never they prescribed unwanted children like cats and dogs. No. So therefore there was garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Before the father and mother conjugate there is ceremony, garbhādhāna, for the higher caste. The higher caste were made not artificially. They had to follow nine great principles, then they are higher caste, not by rubber stamp, just like Gandhi wanted to do, taking the banghis, the sweepers, and rubber-stamping "harijana." No. This is a process. Everyone is open to become a harijana, but not by rubber stamp but by training. That training is required. People are avoiding the training and simply speculating in the mind, foolishness. How the world can improve? There must be training. Without training, simply by mental speculation, one can make any... Manasā mathurāṁ gacchasi. Oh, you have to work. If you want to go California, you have to go there. Simply I am thinking, "I am going to California, California," will that...? No.

*So similarly, actually if you want peace, then you have to work. The process is there. The process open for everyone, but you have to take it. Otherwise it is not possible. Therefore Lord Caitanya says, manuṣya*-janma sārthaka kari: "You first of all make yourself perfect; *then preach." Don't become yourself nonsense, and you become a preacher. No. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvera śikṣāya. Preacher must be in his life perfect. Then he can become a preacher. If I smoke, how can I say that "You do not smoke"? Then how... Modern days is, "What I do, that you may not do. What I say, you do." Why shall I follow you? You are not doing? So Lord Caitanya therefore says, janma*-sārthaka kari.

*So when Kṛṣṇa was born... Of course, He is pure. He is God. But the social and the scriptural rules and regulations were followed. So when a child is born the astrologer is called. Still that system is followed. But due to this Kali*-yuga the astrologer has also become a false, and this has become a formality. Somebody is following; *somebody is not following. So as soon as a child is born... You will find Mahārāja Parīkṣit, as soon as he was born, his grandfather, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, called for astrologer. This is called jāta*-karma. Just after the child is born, this astrologer will come and he will see the moment, the astronomical situation, and make a horoscope, and then immediately his future activities and everything will be clearly made, that "This child is born at such and such moment. He will be like this and this." And that will be... You will be surprised... Not surprised. This is calculation. In my horoscope it is written there, "At the age of seventy years he will go across the sea." It is written there. Yes. And there are so many things still. So this astrologer was so accurate. I have got that horoscope. Not here. If some day I shall, then will show. It is clearly written there that "This time he will go across the sea." Just see. The circumstances became so that I have come. So astrology is so nice.

*So when Kṛṣṇa was born the same principle was followed. Astrologer was called for, and there were good astrologers. And the great astrologer, a famous astrologer who came to see Kṛṣṇa's birth affair, he was Gargamuni. His name was Gargamuni. Yes. So that Gargamuni, by astrology, said to Kṛṣṇa's father Nanda Mahārāja, "This boy, this child who is born as your son, He had three colors before." Āsan varṇās trayo hy asya: "This child had three colors before. I see." Just see the astrology. From astrology he says that "He had three colors before." That means God. "He had three colors before." Gṛhṇato 'nuyugaṁ tanūḥ: "According to the age, according to the millennium, He had three other colors." Śuklo raktas tathā pīta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ: "And He had that white color and red color and yellow color. Idānīm, just now, He has assumed this black color." So this was the astronomical calculation of Kṛṣṇa's birth. Satya*-yuge dharma-dhyāna karāya 'śukla'-mūrti dhari'.

*Now, śukla*-mūrti, that white incarnation of God, He will teach the people... The incarnation of God, why does He come? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. The incarnation of God comes... When there is discrepancy all over the world about religious principle, the incarnation comes. So Lord Caitanya says that in the Satya-yuga this incarnation of God in white color, He preached meditation, dhyāna. Therefore meditation is for the Satya-yuga. Satya-yuga means when cent percent people are pure. That is called Satya-yuga. And Tretā-yuga means 75% are pure, 25% impure. And Dvāpara-yuga means 50%, 50% pure and 50%... And Kali-yuga means 75% impure and 25% may be pure. (laughter) This is Kali-yuga. And we are thinking we are advancing. Such a foolish civilization, they are less than 25% pure, they do not know what is purity, and they think that they are advancing in civilization. Civilization means to purify. The Aryans, Aryans means advance. And what way advance? Advance in eating? Advance in sleeping? No. Advance in purification. They are called Aryans. And the most advanced purified is called the brāhmaṇa. And less than that, the kṣatriya. And less than that, vaiśyas. And less than that, the śūdras. And less than that, they are caṇḍālas. This is the classification of the human society. What is that classification? Due to this purity, who is pure, pure, purer, purer, and purest. So unless we become purest, we cannot approach Kṛṣṇa.

*So here it is said, satya*-yuge dhyāna karma. This dhyāna, this medi... Why meditation? They were all pure; *still, to become purest, dhyāna karma. Kardamake vara dilā yeṅho kṛpā kari. And He gave some, bestowed some blessings to Kardama Muni. Kardama Muni, he was a great penance taker, and he worshiped this incarnation of God, and he was blessed with a son. He was also incarnation of God, Kapila Muni. Kapila Muni. He is also incarnation of God, and He preached the sāṅkhya philosophy, original. Later on, in the, just in this Kali*-yuga, there is an imitation sāṅkhya philosophy. So there are two sāṅkhya philosophies: atheistic and nonatheistic. So (non)atheistic sāṅkhya philosophy you will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam preached by Kapila. His name was Kapila, Kapila Muni, son of Kardama and Devahūti. His mother's name was Devahūti; His father's name was Kardama. So this Kardama's name is mentioned here:

*kṛṣṇa-'dhyāna' kare loka jñāna*-adhikārī

*tretāra dharma yajña' karaya 'rakta'*-varṇa dhari



*Now in the Satya*-yuga the people were trained to meditate on Kṛṣṇa. They had, I mean to say, 100,000's of years they used to live, 100,000's of years. Just like we cannot..., our limit is one hundred years only, similarly, in the Satya-yuga the limit of living was 100,000's of years. And people would meditate. There are history... Meditate some fifty hundred thousands of years..., no, fifty thousands of years. Just like Vālmīki Muni. Vālmīki Muni meditated for fifty thousands of years, and then he wrote Rāmāyaṇa. The Rāmāyaṇa is not an ordinary book. You see? Therefore Rāmāyaṇa is so much popular in India. Before the appearance of Rāma, he wrote Rāmāyaṇa, all the activities of Rāma. So this Vālmīki Muni... And what this Vālmīki Muni was? This Vālmīki Muni was a dacoit, a plunderer. He used to plunder, I mean to say, innocent men on the road, kill him and take everything. That was his business. But by chance, he was associated with Nārada Muni, and he rectified him. This is the process. When a devotee meets even a dacoit like Vālmīki Muni, he becomes... Nārada Muni elevated so many fallen souls. This Vālmīki Muni was also. So he was given this mantra, "Rāma." He could not chant it. Then he was advised to just the opposite, māra. Māra means dead body. So māra māra māra. Three māra means one "Rāma" is there. So in this way he was initiated and he became a great sage. For sixty thousands of years he meditated simply on "Rāma, Rāma, Rāma, Rāma, Rāma, Rāma." And when he was liberated, he wrote this Rāmāyaṇa.



*So that is the function of the Tretā(Satya)*-yuga. And Tretā-yuga... Tretā dharma yajña karāya... (aside:) There is one bug. Throw it. So in the Satya-yuga this meditation is possible, not in this age. Therefore those who are imitating the process of the Satya-yuga, they are simply wasting time. That's all. That is not recommended. Nobody can meditate in this age. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ [SB 12.3.52]. There are different yugas, millennium, and there are different processes. In this age, this is the process, kalau saṅkīrtana, hari-kīrtanāt, simply chanting. Sit down anywhere, everywhere, and go on chanting, chanting, chanting.

*So as the ages, either it is fallen or risen, that doesn't matter. Just like if you go to a doctor, he has got different kinds of medicine, different kinds of treatment. There is no question of being hopeless. There is no question of being hopeless. If we follow the injunction given in these authorized scriptures, then even in this Kali*-yuga we can attain perfection. And the process is this: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661224CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.334-341

-

New York, December 24, 1966



Prabhupāda:



*satya*-yuge dharma-dhyāna karāya 'śukla'-mūrti dhari'

kardamake vara dilā yeṅho kṛpā kari'



*In the Satya*-yuga the incarnation of God is of white color.



*kṛṣṇa-'dhyāna' kare loka jñāna*-adhikārī

*tretāra dharma 'yajña' karāya 'rakta'*-varṇa dhari'



*So in the Satya-yuga, the age of goodness, in that age the meditation was possible. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ [SB 12.3.52]. According to injunction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, meditation is possible in the age of goodness when cent percent people, they are all in the modes of goodness. There are three modes of nature: modes of goodness, modes of passion and modes of ignorance. Similarly, the ages are also conducted by the three modes of material nature. Just like there are seasonal changes*-in our experience in one year sometimes it is summer, sometimes it is winter, sometimes it is spring-similarly, in course of nature's way there are different yugas, millennium. So in the Satya-yuga people are all in the modes of goodness. Therefore, at that time they could concentrate the mind in the Supreme, and meditation was recommended at that time. Kṛṣṇa-'dhyāna' kare loka jñāna-adhikārī. Jñāna-adhikārī means they were quite fit to understand spiritual knowledge. Because without developing the modes of goodness, nobody can understand spiritual knowledge. In the ignorance, the lowest grade of men, they are in ignorance. The ignorance, the symptom of ignorance we have already described in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā. Ignorance means laziness. Laziness. That is ignorance. And passion means active. And goodness means sober. So we cannot find all men in this world of the same quality. Some of them are in goodness; some of them are in passion; *some of them are in ignorance. But in this age seventy*-five percent or more than that, they are in ignorance. And maybe ten or fifteen percent in passion, and hardly five percent, they are in goodness.



*Therefore majority population of this age, they cannot perform meditation or great sacrifices or temple worship. They cannot. Therefore Lord Caitanya has, by His causeless mercy... Of course, it is according to the Vedic injunction. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. The same achievement which was obtained in the age of goodness by meditation was achieved in the next age by sacrifices and the next age by temple worship. At the present age it is recommended to achieve that success, that perfection, spiritual perfection by hari*-kīrtanāt, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. It doesn't require any previous qualification to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anybody and everybody can join, and by chanting this, the result will be that progressive chanting will help him in cleansing the dust on the mirror of the mind.

*The whole trouble in the world is misunderstanding. That's all. Under the spell of this material nature, we are simply misunderstanding. But when we come to the pure state... Just like mirror, when cleansed of all the dust we can see our face nicely, similarly, when the mind is cleared of all material dust then we can see what we are. In ignorance we identify with this body and bodily relationships. And in passion we are very much active for this bodily comfort. And in goodness we can see what we are. So in goodness we can see that "I am not this body." Of course, it is very common thing to understand that "I am not this body," the distinction between a dead man and living man. When a man is dead, the relatives cry, lament, "Oh, my son is gone," "My father is gone," "My wife is gone." But if we think, "Your wife is there lying. Your son is lying there. Why do you say he is gone?" Actually he is gone, but so long he does not go, we think this body as my son, as my daughter. This is ignorance. At the end we can understand, "Oh, this body is not my son," "This body is not my daughter," "This body is not my father," when the end is done. But still, even after that experience, we think that "This body is myself." This is called ignorance. Ahany ahani lokāni gacchanti yama*-mandiram. In every moment, every second, we are seeing that body is this matter; the soul, when gone from the body, it has no value. Still, I am thinking that "I shall live in this world eternally, and I shall... Let me enjoy this bodily sense gratification." This is ignorance.

So this ignorance has to be removed if we actually want to be happy and peaceful. Nobody in ignorance can be happy. We have got experience here. Those who are advanced in knowledge, they are comparatively happy in this world, and those who are ignorance, they are not happy. Of course, by the spell of this illusory energy, although he is not happy, he thinks, "I am happy." Just like in the Bowery Row, street, you will see, so many drunkards, they are lying. They are thinking happy, but others, those are passing on the street, they are seeing they are not happy. So this is going on. So this mode of ignorance and passion has to be removed. Unless we remove that, the modes of passion and ignorance, there is no chance of become peaceful and happy. Because in goodness everything is... Just like we have got experience: when the sky is cloudy, we are not very much happy, and as soon as there is sunrise, clear sky, we say, "Oh, today is very nice day." Why? Because the light is there. So when we come to goodness, the light of knowledge is there, and therefore we see, "Oh, it is very nice." But if we stay on that point, "Oh, it is very nice. It is very nice day," that is not all. But you must utilize the very nice day. Otherwise what is very nice day to you? Similarly, knowledge has to be also fully utilized. And what is the full utilization of knowledge? The full utilization of knowledge is to understand God. That is full utilization. So long one does not come to the point of Kṛṣṇa understanding, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, he is more or less in the ignorance.

*So perfection of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when one knows... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*"After many, many births' struggle for acquiring knowledge, when one is fully conscious that 'Vāsudeva, Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, is everything,' that is the perfection of knowledge." So that perfection of knowledge was achieved in the age of goodness by meditation, and in the age of Tretā by sacrifice, and by Dvāpara by worship, and in this age this kṛṣṇa*-kīrtana.



*'kṛṣṇa*-padārcana' haya dvāparera dharma

*'kṛṣṇa'*-varṇe karāya loke kṛṣṇārcana-karma



*So in the Dvāpara*-yuga, in the next millennium, in the age of passion, Lord Kṛṣṇa was Himself present. And He presented this Bhagavad-gītā. And what did He teach in that Bhagavad-gītā? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He personally taught the people of the world that one should be a surrendering soul to the Supreme Lord. That will make him happy.



dvāpare bhagavān śyāmaḥ

*pīta*-vāsā nijāyudhaḥ

*śrī*-vatsādibhir aṅkaiś ca

lakṣaṇair upalakṣitaḥ



*Now, the incarnation of God in the Dvāpara*-yuga is the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is pīta-vāsā nijāyudhaḥ. He has got His own wheel, His instrument, and He has many signs on His chest, śrī-vatsa-ādibhiḥ. Kṛṣṇa was accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead by signs also. There are many signs on the sole, underneath the sole. There are many signs on His chest. And other characteristic of Kṛṣṇa, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa's presence, they are described in the śāstras, in the scriptures. So learned men, sages, they understood that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Not all. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Unless one is perfectly in knowledge, even God is present before us, we cannot understand. So this knowledge and this qualification to understand what is possible in the modes of goodness.



namas te vāsudevāya

namaḥ saṅkarṣaṇāya ca

pradyumnāyāniruddhāya

tubhyaṁ bhagavate namaḥ



*Now, in the Dvāpara*-yuga, just like in the Kali-yuga, this age, the mahā-mantra is Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare; *similarly in the Dvāpara*-yuga the mantra, this mantra was chanted. What is that? Namas te vāsudevāya: "All obeisances unto You, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva."



namaḥ saṅkarṣaṇāya ca

pradyumnāyāniruddhāya

tubhyaṁ bhagavate namaḥ



With His plenary expansion, first expansion Vāsudeva, Saṇkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, He is offered respect.



*'pīta'*-varṇa dhari' tabe kailā pravartana

*prema*-bhakti dilā loke lañā bhakta-gaṇa



*Now Lord Caitanya is describing about the incarnation in this age Kali*-yuga. He says personally that "In the Kali-yuga, in this age, the complexion of the incarnation is pīta-varṇa, yellow color." 'Pīta'-varṇa dhari' tabe kailā pravartana. And what are His activities? Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, His activities were more or less political. He established the Pāṇḍavas on the throne, and He vanquished the other party, and there were many such instances. Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Formerly the modes was if the king was pious, naturally the citizens were also pious. And that is a fact. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If the leader is all right, the followers also all right. If the leader is a fool, the followers also fool. So in the days bygone, the kings were made as ideal king, and by his ruling capacity, all the citizens, they become nice. So this was Kṛṣṇa's mission, to establish ideal king of the world, and that was Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. The description of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira you will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, how nice he was and how the condition of the world was there. There was, during the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, even there was no severe cold and severe heat. Sometimes at this present age we are disturbed in so many ways. There are diseases, anxieties, and nature's disturbance. But all these things were completely absent during the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. That is described. And so far production is concerned, ample production, everything. So Lord Kṛṣṇa's mission was to establish the pious king to rule over the world. So that was His mission in that incarnation.



*Now, in this age the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, His color is, the complexion of the body is described as yellow. And what does He do? Prema*-bhakti dilā loke lañā bhakta-gaṇa. His mission is to give directly the love of God. That's all. His method is so nice that one who follows His method, he very quickly, instantly, he develops love of God. And when one develops love of God, he becomes perfect. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. We are hankering after love. We want to love somebody. That is the nature of living entity. But that love is frustrated in every step. The culmination of perfection of love can be realized when we understand, when we try to understand, and really love Kṛṣṇa. That can be achieved by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness was preached by Lord Caitanya. When you become a lover of Kṛṣṇa, then all your loving propensities, all your desires, all your hankerings will be satisfied. And so long we do not understand what is love of Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we will love false things, and at the end we shall be frustrated. That is the going on. At every step we are being frustrated; *still, we do not leave that path. Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. We are repeating the same mistake, same mistake, in every step.

*Now, even a love extended, so*-called love extended, that nationalism, loving the countrymen, loving the humanity, that is also not perfect. We have got practical experience. In our country, in India, Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country very nicely. He sacrificed everything, and for thirty-five years he simply struggled for the, I mean to say, independence of his country, of his countrymen. But the result was, at the ultimate end, he was killed by his countrymen. After loving so much his country, the result was that he was killed by his country. So in this material world the love is like that. It is never perfect. It cannot be perfect. So Lord Caitanya, taking compassion on these poor fellows, He taught love of Godhead. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel pleasure. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that "Every living creature is searching after pleasure, pleasure." Therefore we have presented this small booklet, that Kṛṣṇa is the Reservoir of Pleasure. If you can love Kṛṣṇa, then you will get pleasure. Otherwise, there is no pleasure. You will be frustrated. This is a fact. If you take it, it is nice. If you don't take it, then that is your misfortune.

So Lord Caitanya taught this love of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore one of His first disciples, Rūpa Gosvāmī, when he first met Lord Caitanya at Prayag, Allahabad, he offered his respects by composing one verse in Sanskrit:

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He said, "My dear Lord Caitanya, You are the most magnanimous personality in this world, most munificent, charitable. You are giving the most nice thing. What is that? Kṛṣṇa*-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa." There are many charitable institutions and foundation, they are giving charities to many institution and many function. But here Lord Caitanya's charity, giving free the love of Kṛṣṇa, that was very much appreciated by Rūpa Gosvāmī, and therefore he said, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te, kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. And this love of Kṛṣṇa cannot be bestowed by anyone else except Kṛṣṇa Himself. Kṛṣṇa once tried. When He was present Himself in His Bhagavad-gītā, He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just give up everything. Just try to love Me. Surrender unto Me, and I shall give you all protection." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam. But foolish people could not understand. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Because foolish people, they thought that "Kṛṣṇa is one of the human beings. Why should we surrender unto Him?"



*So we have got our independence. We may do whatever we like. But if we follow the sādhu, śāstra and guru, that is the way of understanding. That is the way of getting knowledge, to follow the instruction of saintly persons and scriptures and spiritual master. Then it is possible to reach the goal of life. And that was taught by Lord Caitanya. Prema*-bhakti dilā loke lañā bhakta-gaṇa. Not only He alone, but always associated by His lieutenants and associates. We have seen the picture. Lord Caitanya is dancing and chanting with His principal associates.

*dharma pravartana kare vrajendra*-nandana

preme gāya nāce loka kare saṅkīrtana



*Now, when He was chanting in His association and He was passing on the road, thousands and thousands of people followed Him, and they also chanted. That time, when He was doing this propagation, there was Muhammadan kingdom, and because the Muhammadans were against Hindu religion, so some of the ministers of the Muhammadan king, they were also afraid that "The Nawab Shah may not be angry that He is doing..." The kṛṣṇa*-saṅkīrtana, although it is transcendental, but people, not all people... Those who are simple, they can take, but those who are covered with the material dust, they cannot take it. So the Nawab Shah inquired, the Muhammadan king, his minister, Hindu minister, that "Who is this man? So many thousands of people are following Him, and He is making enchanted all the people by His Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. What is that?" So his minister thought that Nawab Shah was planning something against this movement, so he made it a trifle thing. "No, not many people follow Him. Some sentimental people follow Him, not many." Then Nawab Shah replied, "No, I know many people follow. Don't minimize His strength. So He is not ordinary man." Then minister inquired, "What is your opinion?" "I think He is incarnation of God." So this was... It is written in the Muhammadan history.



So Lord Caitanya demonstrated such mass movement simply by this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So that is His contribution to the people of the world. And India was overflooded with this movement about five hundred years before. And still they have found that thousands and thousands of followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu... During Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthday in February there is a procession in Calcutta. Practically the whole population of Calcutta joins that. So here, of course, this movement is started, and people, if they take advantage of this movement, they will be very happy. And this is the only movement for respiritualization of the whole world. And those who are intelligent, they should come forward and cooperate with this movement. We have started this movement in a humble way, but we are inviting cooperation of people who are interested for the peace of the world.

Thank you very much. (end)



661225CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.337-353

-

New York, December 25, 1966



Prabhupāda:



dvāpare bhagavān śyāmaḥ

*pīta*-vāsā nijāyudhaḥ

*śrī*-vatsādibhir aṅkaiś ca

lakṣaṇair upalakṣitaḥ



namas te vāsudevāya

namaḥ saṅkarṣaṇāya ca

pradyumnāyāniruddhāya

tubhyaṁ bhagavate namaḥ



These are some of the mantras for offering respect to Kṛṣṇa. This mantra, you may particularly note down:



namas te vāsudevāya

namaḥ saṅkarṣaṇāya ca

pradyumnāyāniruddhāya

tubhyaṁ bhagavate namaḥ



ei mantre dvāpare kare kṛṣṇārcana

*'kṛṣṇa*-nāma-saṅkīrtana'-kali-yugera dharma



*So in the Dvāpara*-yuga, this was the process, kṛṣṇārcana, worshiping Kṛṣṇa, and in the Kali-yuga, this pīta, this yellowish-colored incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, He's to be worshiped by this saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtanair yajñair. This is also called sacrifice, this saṅkīrtana yajña. There are different kinds of yajña. This is called nāma-yajña, sacrifice of the holy name of the Supreme Lord.



*dharma pravartana kare vrajendra*-nandana

preme gāya nāce loka kare saṅkīrtana



*The process is that the Lord chants and He dances Himself, and people follows similarly. Just like we are painting the picture: the Lord is dancing and everyone is following. And that following can be continued even up to date. God is always there. It is not that Caitanya is not present here. He's always present, and, whenever there is saṅkīrtana, there is this kīrtana by the devotees, sincere devotees, it is said that Lord Caitanya is there, present. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad*-bhaktāḥ. Śuddha-bhakta, those who are pure devotees. Pure devotees means without any material desire. Those who are pure devotees, those who are determined to go back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, they are called pure devotees. They have lost all interest for any material enjoyment. They are now determined. They are called pure devotees. So this saṅkīrtana movement creates pure devotees, who gradually loses all interest in the material enjoyment.



*Now this verse from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, as I've already explained to you, that is also cited here:

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



That Personality, incarnation of God, who is yellowish color and is accompanied by His associates, confidential associates, He is worshiped by this process of saṅkīrtana in this age of Kali.



*āra tin*-yuge dhyānādite yei phala haya

*kali*-yuge kṛṣṇa-nāme sei phala pāya



*Āra tina*-yuge means this is Kali-yuga, and there are, there were other three yugas: the Satya-yuga, the Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga. There are different processes of realizing God. So Lord Caitanya says, "In other three yugas, what was achieved by meditation, by sacrifice, by temple worship, now that can be achieved in this age by saṅkīrtana. Kalau..."



*kaler doṣa*-nidhe rājann

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

*mukta*-bandhaḥ paraṁ vrajet

[SB 12.3.51]



*This is a śloka, verse, from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam in connection with conversation with Mahārāja Parīkṣit and Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and, when the description of this Kali-yuga was given, Mahārāja Parīkṣit became very sorry that, because he was a pious king, he was thinking always of the welfare of the citizens. So when he heard about the description of the Kali-yuga, he was very much disturbed in his mind. Although he was going to die, still he was so compassionate: "Oh, in the age of Kali, the people will suffer so much."



*So, when he was so sorry, so Śukadeva Gosvāmī encouraged him, "Mahārāja, don't be sorry. There is very nice process in the Kali*-yuga. In the midst of so many difficulties of this age, there is one boon, and that boon is one can become liberated from this material entanglement altogether simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma..." Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. It was especially mentioned, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51], simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, one can become... This is the greatest boon in this age. Although there are so many difficulties, full of miseries, increase in the greatest volume... The world is, material world is miserable. Just like cold season, this winter season, today we are feeling most inconvenienced. Similarly, this material world is always miserable. But still, in this age it is most miserable, in this age of Kali. But the boon is, the first-class boon is that even there are so many miserable conditions, in the midst of all those disadvantages, one can become free from all contamination simply by kṛṣṇa..., kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. Simply by this.

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*What was achieved in the Satya*-yuga by meditation, what was achieved by offering sacrifices in Tretā-yuga, and what was achieved in the Dvāpara-yuga by worship, that can be achieved in this age by saṅkīrtana yajña.



dhyāyan kṛte yajan yajñais

tretāyāṁ dvāpare 'rcayan

yad āpnoti tad āpnoti

kalau saṅkīrtya keśavam



*A similar passage... The two above passages, they are quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Another passage is quoted from Padma Purāṇa. Padma Purāṇa, there are eighteen purāṇas, purāṇam. Six purāṇas are in the modes of goodness, and six purāṇas are in the modes of passion, and six purāṇas are in the modes of ignorance*-for different people. Just like in a best institution, there are different classes, different kinds of books of learning, gradual process. Similarly, this Vedic culture is so nice, they don't give one class of literature for all. No. There are so many different literatures because there are so many varieties of people. How can you convince you, convince all classes of people by one literature? No. That is not possible. Now the people are here in your country, they are losing interest in religion because the Bible was given to a certain class of people long, long years before. So people are far advanced in scientific knowledge. So that does not appeal. So they're all... We should always remember that there are always different classes of men, and for different classes... The aim is all the same that, see, "Two plus two equal to four." Nothing. But different classes of men there are. So different class of arithmetic, higher mathematics, middle mathematics, lower mathematics. The mathematical, mathematical principle is the same, "Two plus two...," "One to three to nine." There is no other figure.



*So similarly, there are eighteen purāṇas. Those who are in the modes of passion, those who are in the modes of ignorance, they should also have some chance. For them, oh, "You go and you worship this demigod." Because we are, every one of us, hankering for material acquisition. The disease is that we are simply thinking of... Idam adya mayā labdham. "Today I have got so much material possession, and next day I shall have so much, and next day I shall have so much. And next day and next day...," and when next day I shall go away*-that's all. Finish. This is material disease. They're always hankering after. So there are different hankerings, there are different persons. So, the demigods, "All right, you worship. You want this thing, you want a beautiful wife? All right, you worship Umā. You want to be very learned man? All right, you worship this Devī-Sarasvatī. Oh, you want to be, get out of your disease? All right, you worship the sun-god." So in this way, there are recommendations.

But in the Bhāgavata, after all these recommendations, the Bhāgavata concludes,

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



*If you have got any desire, still, you go to Kṛṣṇa. You worship. Kṛṣṇa recommends. Catur*-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Even if you go to Kṛṣṇa for asking something material profit, still it is better. Don't go to other demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. The foolish persons, they do not know that the demigods, they cannot offer any benediction. They cannot offer. They are not fool. Just like here in this institution, although you are free, you very kindly ask me, "Swamijī, can I take this fruit?" Why? This is etiquette. Similarly, the demigods, they are not fools. Suppose one man worships a demigod and asks some benefit. Oh, demigod will ask the Lord, Supreme Lord. Or, in another sense, the demigods also do not know, because they are also living entities like us. But īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that this person, this particular man, is wanting something, "All right, give him. Give him." Kṛṣṇa is... This is freedom. There is no argument, "Oh, why Kṛṣṇa has arranged like this?" He arranges out of His causeless mercy. He can say, He can stop asking the individual soul. But He does not do that. Why He shall do? Then there is no meaning of independence. "All right, you want it? I have arranged it. Take it. Take." So He asks the demigod, "All right, he's asking from you? Give him. Give." So this is going on.



*So therefore there are different kinds of literature because there are different kinds of people. But the ultimate literature is, the substance of all Vedic literature is the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kṛṣṇe sva-dhāma upagate dharma-jñānādibhiḥ saha. It is..., there is a verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. When Kṛṣṇa was present He personally gave this Bhagavad-gītā and all knowledge. So many people took knowledge. There is another gītā, Uddhava-gītā. That was spoken to Uddhava. That is in Bhāgavata; *this is in Mahābhārata, Bhagavad*-gītā. So there is a question by the Śaunaka Ṛṣi that, after departure of Kṛṣṇa, wherefrom knowledge should be searched? So they recommended this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So in the Padma Purāṇa also there is similar passages. In Bhāgavatam also, there are similar passages. In all Vedic literature, the same thing is there. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. The last target and the last goal, ultimate goal, is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Bhāgavata says, akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā [SB 2.3.10]. Even if you are this materially desiring, still, you should go to Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa also confirms, bhajate mām ananya bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Api cet su-durācāro. One should not ask God. But still, if one asks, he's accepted, because he has come to the point, Kṛṣṇa. That is his good qualification. He's in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So all faults there may be, but when one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything is nice. Just like there are so mu..., so much snowfall. As soon as there is rise of sun, everything finished. Everything finished. Kṛṣṇa sūrya sama. Only we have to wait when the sunrise will be there. Then all these disturbances will be at once cleared.

*So we have to take to kṛṣṇa*-sūrya and everything will be cleared.

kaliṁ sabhājayanty āryā

*guṇa*-jñāḥ sāra-bhāginaḥ

yatra saṅkīrtanenaiva

*sarva*-svārtho 'bhilabhyate



*Sarva*-svārtho 'bhilabhyate. There are nice verse. You see? Here it is said, yatra saṅkīrtanenaiva. This Kali-yuga, this age of Kali, we are condemning so much. But even the demigods, they, I mean to say, highly eulogize this Kali-yuga. Why? Why? Oh, here is a great opportunity. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, yatra saṅkīrtanena. Yatra means in this Kali-yuga, simply by this saṅkīrtana movement, simply by chanting, sarva-svārtho 'bhilabhyate, all interest is served. Your material interest, your spiritual interest-every interest will be served. Lord Caitanya also said, ihā haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomāra. Just... Even if you are materially desiring something, that also will be fulfilled by simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is such a nice thing. This is... Therefore we call mahā-mantra. All...



*pūrvavat likhi yabe guṇāvatāra*-gaṇa

asaṅkhya saṅkhyā tāṅra, nā haya gaṇana



*cāri*-yugāvatāre ei ta' gaṇana

śuni' bhaṅgi kari' tāṅre puche sanātana



*Now here is a very trick. Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was politician. He was minister. Now when Lord Caitanya was describing about the incarnations, especially of the incarnation of the Kali*-yuga, now he's asking, Sanātana Gosvāmī is asking to Lord Caitanya,



*rāja*-mantri-sanātana-buddhye bṛhaspati

*prabhura kṛpāte puche asaṅkoca*-mati



He's asking very frankly because he's very intelligent. He was minister.



'ati kṣudra jīva muñi nīca, nīcācāra

kemane jāniba kalite kon avatāra?'



*"My dear Sir, Lord Caitanya, I am the lowest of the lowest. I am very fool number one. So I may inquire from You that how can I understand that this is the incarnation of this age, Kali*-yuga?"



*prabhu kahe*-anyāvatāra śāstra-dvāre jāni

*kalite avatāra taiche śāstra*-vākye māni



"Oh, why you are in confusion? As other incarnation are to be understood from the indication of the śāstras, similarly, we have to understand from the indication of the śāstra who is incarnation." Sarvajña munira vākya-śāstra-'paramāṇa'.



*Now śāstra, the scripture, is the most first*-class evidence, sarvajña munira vā..., sarvajña... Because śāstras are written not by ordinary person. Not by Rabindranath Tagore, a sex play. (?) No. (laughs) Śāstras are written by liberated persons. Therefore śāstra, scripture, have got so many advantages and so much respect. So therefore Lord said: sarvajña munira vākya-śāstra-'paramāṇa'. Śāstra paramāṇa. Just like (we) see in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, four hundred thousands of years after there will be avatāra, Kalki, and His father's name, His birthplace, is already mentioned there. This is called śāstra. Five thousand years before Bhāgavata was written, and there is indication that in such and such age, in such and such province, in such and such family, Lord Buddha will appear. That is written there. And five thousand years before, ago, the, the symptoms of Kali-yuga is already written there. And we are experiencing.

*In the Bhāgavata you'll find, svīkāra eva hy udhvāhe: "In the Kali*-yuga, marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Just see. Another... Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam: "People will think by keeping long hairs they will be very beautiful." It is stated in Bhāgavata. They'll look very beautiful. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. It is written there if you see. It is not story. Svīkāra eva hy udvāhe. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi: "And husband and wife relation means sex. That's all." If the husband has got sex power, then there will be no divorce. These are all written there. Simply sex life, husband and wife relationship. Simply sex life. Vipratve sūtram eva hi: "And one will be considered a brāhmaṇa simply by this thread." These are all written there. A two-cent-worth thread, you get it..., "Oh, you have got thread. Oh, you are a brāhmaṇa." That's all. This is going on in India. Two-paisa-worth brāhmaṇa. He has all the qualification of less than a caṇḍāla, but, because he has got this nonsense thread, he's considered a brāhmaṇa. So these things are all mentioned. And we have to believe it also that, in the last stage of the Kali-yuga, nobody will understand what is God, what is religion. And there will be no supply of these grains. Now we are getting all these grains. But, as you are, as you are thinking grain is not meant for human being, they are meant for animals, all right, God will stop completely. Then you'll have to live only on the seeds and animal flesh. That is also mentioned. There will be no milk. There will be no sugar. There will be no grain. These things are mentioned. Therefore śāstra, it is called śāstra. Sarvajña. Sarvajña means the śāstra is written by persons who know, who knows the, I mean to say, past, present and future. Everything is clear. Therefore we have got so much respect for scripture. The foolish people say, "Oh, it is also written by man. Why shall I...?" Yes, it is written by man. That's all right. But he's not a man like you. He's liberated man. There are different kinds of men. So don't think all men are like you, all men are like you fools.

*So here it is said, sarvajña munira vākya-śāstra-'paramāṇa.' Therefore... Tasmāt śāstra pramāṇa ante. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, that everything should act, should be acted in terms of the śāstra. Just like when you go to post something, you are, you are directed by the postal guide. Śāstra pramāṇa only. So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as Kṛṣṇa has given stress upon the evidence, on the scripture, similarly, Lord Caitanya also is giving stress. The question is very interesting. The question is how one should accept a person or a body as incarnation. Lord Caitanya says that through śāstra, by the evidence of śāstra. So many fools, they are presenting themselves as incarnation. An intelligent person should see whether this fool is mentioned in the śāstra. He's presenting himself as incarnation. Whether his activities are, his characteristics is mentioned in the śāstra? Then accept. Otherwise, don't accept. This will be discussed more.

Thank you very much. (end)



661226CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.353-354

-

New York, December 26, 1966



Prabhupāda:



sarvajña munira vākya-śāstra-'paramāṇa'

*āmā*-sabā jīvera haya śāstra-dvārā 'jñāna'



*We should always think that we are in the modes of ignorance. We are just trying to make progress from ignorance to goodness and then transcend. This is the process of spiritual realization. Nobody should think that we are perfect. We cannot be. God is... Only God is perfect, and we are all imperfect. Even our so*-called liberated stage, we are still imperfect. Therefore one has to take shelter of authority because, constitutionally, we are imperfect. Lord Caitanya says, āmā-sabā jīvera haya śāstra-dvārā 'jñāna'. So therefore, for real knowledge, we have to consult the scriptures, śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru. Sādhu means pious, religious, honest person. Sādhu, whose character is spotless, he's called sādhu. Śāstra means scripture, and guru, guru means spiritual master. They are on the equal level. Why? Because the medium is scripture. Guru is considered to be liberated because he follows the scripture. Sādhu is considered to be honest and saintly because he follows scripture. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. Nobody can become a sādhu if he does not accept the principles of scripture. Nobody can be accepted as guru, or spiritual master, if he does not follow the principles of scripture. This is the test.



*tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet

*samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



Śrotriyam, śrotriyam means one who has accepted the Vedic literature, the śāstra, scripture, as the guidance, he can be... Not a extravagant upstart, he makes some group and religious principle of his own and become a guru. No, no, he'll not be...



So Lord Caitanya advises... Sanātana Gosvāmī's inquiry is how to know that he, here is a avatāra. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the medium is śāstra, and direction is the guru. Śāstra also we cannot understand any book, what to speak of the scripture. Sometimes we find contradiction in the scripture. That is not contradiction; that is my poor fund of knowledge. I cannot understand; therefore assistance of guru, a spiritual master, is required. So far incarnation is concerned, here Lord Caitanya says that we have to see through the śāstra whether a person is incarnation or not. We should not blindly accept anybody as incarnation because there are, nowadays, numberless incarnations.

avatāra nāhi kahe-'āmi avatāra'

*muni saba jāni' kare lakṣaṇa*-vicāra



This is another significance of incarnation. Incarnation never says that "I am incarnation of God." I have read one book about a big avatāra in India. He was canvassing his students, "Do you now accept me as incarnation? Do you now accept me as incarnation?" And the... Perhaps you know. (laughs) And the disciple was denying, "No." Then, at a time the disciple said, "Yes, I accept you." So this is not avatāra. Here Caitanya Mahāprabhu says avatāra does not canvass that "I am..." Guru does not canvass. Sādhu does not canvass. He automatically, by his qualities, he becomes accepted. Yes.



*So here Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, avatāra nāhi kahe-'āmi avatāra'. Actually who is avatāra, incarnation, he'll never say that "I am avatāra." Muni saba jāni' kare lakṣaṇa*-vicāra. Muni, those who are thinkers, they are actually in the line, they see the symptoms and, with symptoms, they specify, "Yes, here is a avatāra." The symptoms... How the symptoms are analyzed of avatāra? The symptom is, first symptom is that there is reference in the śāstra, scripture, that in such and such time, such and such personality will come. He will be incarnation of God. Even his father's name, his birthplace, everything is written in the scripture. So we have to identify, lakṣaṇa. Then he'll act like this. He'll come like this, and he'll act like this. So these things we analyze, whether he is actually avatāra. Now, even there are characteristics, somebody does not accept also. Just like Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He never said that "I am avatāra." But from His symptoms, from His characteristics, later on great sages, great philosophers, they decided that He's avatāra. Just like here. Sanātana Gosvāmī's stressed Him, testing, and he's trying to confirm it by Lord Caitanya. Because Lord Caitanya described here that in this Kali-yuga the avatāra, His symptoms are like this: kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra pārṣadam [SB 11.5.32]. He is in the category of Kṛṣṇa; *by His complexion, He's non*-black. Akṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam. And He's always followed by confidential associates. And people who are intelligent, they worship Him by the process of saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtanair yajñaiḥ kalau yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. Su-medhasaḥ means those persons who are, who have got good brain substance. Not foolish persons. Su-medhasaḥ, a man of great brain substance, they can understand, "Oh, here is..." That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in Mahābhārata, in Upaniṣad, in Purāṇas, about Lord Caitanya's appearance. There are many symptomatic explanation. But still there are many fools, they do not accept.

*So accept or no accept, His work, His activities, His characterize, characteristics will be known because God will be known. Just like Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. And during the time of Emperor Aśoka, he was patronized, Lord Buddha was patronized, not Buddha, or Buddhism was patronized by Aśoka. So practically the whole of Far East, including India, all over, the Buddhism was broadcast and everyone become Buddhist. Whole of India, practically, became Buddhist during his time. But later on, after Śaṅkarācārya's drive against Buddhism, Buddha-ism... Śaṅkarācārya wanted to establish the difference of Buddhism and Hinduism is that Buddhism, Lord Buddha did not accept Vedic authority. He did not accept Vedic authority. But according to Hindu culture, if somebody does not accept the Vedic authority, then he's not a authority. Vedānta philosophy, there are different parties in India. The Māyā... Generally, two parties: the Māyāvāda philosophers and the Vaiṣṇava philosophers, or the impersonalists and the personalists. Otherwise, there is no difference. Ultimately, the Māyāvādī philosophers they say that God, the Supreme Absolute Truth, is impersonal, and the Vaiṣṇava philosophers, they say in the ultimate end, the Absolute Truth is Person and He is, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. This is little difference, and they stick to their position and they fight. Fight means by philosophical arguments. That is going on since a very long time. But both of them belong to the sanātana Hindu dharma because both of them will talk on the Vedānta philosophy. They'll simply, they can give different interpretation, but they cannot say that "We don't accept Vedānta." Oh, that will..., then it is at once rejected. So one must give an interpretation on the Vedānta philosophy; *then he'll be accepted as ācārya. Three things: Vedānta philosophy, Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. One must be able to explain these three books. Then he'll be accepted ācārya. These are the principles.

So very recently... The impersonalists, they also accept avatāra. They accept Kṛṣṇa. Śaṅkarācārya accepted Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Sa bhagavān svayam kṛṣṇa. Specifically... People may misunderstand that Kṛṣṇa may be some other Kṛṣṇa because, as the present followers of Śaṅkarācārya, they are interpreting in that way. But Śaṅkarācārya, just to specify Kṛṣṇa, devakī vāsudeva jātaḥ. This means Kṛṣṇa who appeared Himself as the son of Devakī and Vasudeva, that Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa. Just like Śaṅkarācārya has a nice prayer of Kṛṣṇa, the present followers of Śaṅkarācārya, they say... They cannot say that this is not composed by Śaṅkarācārya. It is very famous.

bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ

bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha mate

prāpte sannihite kāle maraṇe

*na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛñ*-karaṇe



*So there is a very famous prayer made by Śaṅkara... Śaṅkarācārya has made many prayers about Kṛṣṇa, especially about His Vṛndāvana līlā, he has made. He has worshiped Kṛṣṇa in many ways. And last, this is his last composition of poetry. Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha mate: "You fools, you mūḍha mate..." Muḍḥa mate means "you fools." He was addressing the whole world, "you fools." Bhaja govindam: "Just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Just become Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Prāpte sannihite kāle maraṇe na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛñ*-karaṇe: "You are philosophizing. You are talking on grammar and this way and that way." Because these people, they want to establish impersonalism from Bhagavad-gītā by strength of grammar. Such a nonsense they are. They want to understand God by..., through grammar. God is so cheap that He can be understood through grammar. Therefore especially he specified, prāpte sannihite kāle maraṇe: "When death will catch you, your grammar, ḍukṛñ, prata, this will not save you. You fools. You please become Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious." That was the instruction of Śaṅkarācārya. And he has especially mentioned Bhagavad-gītā and Ganges water. He especially mentions. "A little quantity of Ganges water and a little study of Bhagavad-gītā will save you from many dangerous positions."



*So, because the symptom is bhagavān, so even Śaṅkarācārya has accepted. But there are many people, they do not accept... Śrī Yamunācārya, Śrī Yamunācārya, a great devotee, he's supposed to be the spiritual master of Rāmānujācārya. He was a great king, and later on he became a great devotee. He has written his Alavandaraya. Alavandaru... Amongst the Rāmānuja*-sampradāya, there are twelve great, I mean to say, ācāryas, and he's one of them. So he has written a very nice verse:

*tvāṁ śīla*-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ

sattvena sāttvikatayā prabalaiś ca śāstraiḥ

*prakhyāta*-daiva-paramārtha-vidāṁ mattaiś ca

*naivāsura*-prakṛtayaḥ prabhavanti boddhum



Now he says, "My dear Lord, those who are asura prakṛtayaḥ..." Asura prakṛtayaḥ means the atheistic demons. Atheists are called demons. In the Vedic literature, those who are atheists, they are called demons, rākṣasas. Just like Rāvaṇa, he was a great scholar in Vedic philosophy. He was son of a brāhmaṇa, and he was very learned. And he materially advanced his kingdom so nice that his capital was called golden. He was so rich. Everything, he was, in every way, in education, in opulence, in power, everything was so great. Only fault was that he was atheist. Therefore he's called rākṣasa, asura. All the asuras that are mentioned in the śāstra, their only fault is that they are atheists. Otherwise, from education point of view, from opulence, they are very much advanced.



*So asura prakṛtayaḥ, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, also: āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ.

na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ

duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



As soon as one becomes atheist, oh, it is very difficult to convince him. You see. Therefore our preaching should avoid the atheist class. Of course, if we stop that, then we cannot find who is theist in the... Time is so nice that 99.9% all atheists. So we have to take the risk of talking with atheist also. But generally it is advised that preachers should not talk this atheist class because they'll not..., they simply argue. Their only point is simply argue and waste your time. That's all. They'll never accept, however you may try to convince him with reason and argument, they'll never... Here is a śloka by Yamunācārya. It is, say, about one thousand years before, this was the same condition for the atheist. He says,



*tvāṁ śīla*-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ

sattvena sāttvikatayā prabalaiś ca śāstraiḥ

*prakhyāta*-daiva-paramārtha-vidāṁ mattaiś ca

*naivāsura*-prakṛtayaḥ prabhavanti boddhum



*There are different kinds of authorities. First authority is śāstra, authorized śāstra, scripture. There the description of avatāra, the characteristics and his work, they are mentioned there. And prabalaiś ca śāstrair. Prabala means the very powerful. Just like Vedānta philosophy, it is very powerful. Bhagavad*-gītā, it is very powerful. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is very powerful. So even we give evidences from these powerful śāstras, not only that, prakhyāta-daiva-paramārtha-vidāṁ mattaiś ca, with the opinion of great stalwarts like prakhyāta, very famous. Who is that? Just like Vyāsadeva. Who can be more famous than Vyāsadeva? He's the compiler of all Vedic literatures in the world, Vyāsadeva. And Nārada, he's greatest ṛṣi, sage. Asita, Devala-there are many. Vasiṣṭha. There are many stalwarts. And especially these twelve person, just like Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Manu, Kapila, Mahārāja Prahlāda, Bhīṣma. There are authorities. So even their evidences in the authorized scriptures, even they are accepted by great stalwarts and sages and munis, still, the asura prakṛti, those who are atheistic persons, they'll never accept. They'll never accept. They'll simply go on arguing. The process is that if... Vedic process is if something is mentioned in the Vedas, and it is accepted by the previous ācāryas, then it is accepted. I have nothing to bother. That's all. This is the proce..., the simple process. Suppose I am a fool number one. That doesn't matter. I may be fool, but if I follow the previous authorized ācāryas, then I am all right. Just like a child, he may be a child, innocent child, but if he catches the hand of his father, then he's all right. He can walk. He can cross the street. This is the Vedic process. Vedic process, research, oh, there is no research in Vedic process. What research, nonsense, you'll do? What sense you have got? You shall research about God? The frog philosophy? There is no research. Research, that is not accepted in Vedic philosophy. You have to accept the authority. That's all.



*So here Yamunācārya says, "My dear Lord, tvāṁ śīla*-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ..." Oh, just like Kṛṣṇa, His character, His activities. Now His character was certified by Bhīṣma. Bhīṣma. Bhīṣma was at that time Arjuna's grandfather. So practically he was, in age, Kṛṣṇa's grandfather. Kṛṣṇa's grandfather, Bhīṣma. He was fighting in the battlefield, a great warrior, kṣatriya, a great... He's called pitāmaha, Grandfather Bhīṣma. He's known as Grandfather Bhīṣma. Now his character is spotless. His character... Although he was living as a householder, he was more, more than any sage or any saint. Bhīṣma. The history of Bhīṣma is that he was son of Ganges. So Ganges was his mother, and his father, Mahārāja Śāntanu, after the death of his mother, he wanted to marry again. At that time, Bhīṣma was elderly. He was about twenty years old. So father, instead of getting the son married, he was himself very much anxious to get him married. So he selected a very beautiful girl, but she..., he belonged to a, that girl belonged to a low-caste family. Kṣatriyas could find, marry from anywhere. That is the injunction. They are not within the boundary of caste system. So the girl was a fisherman's daughter. So Mahārāja Śāntanu wanted to marry that girl, and the father was very cunning. He said, "No, no. I cannot offer my daughter to you. You are old man. You have got your son. So I cannot offer." He was bargaining. "No? Why? I shall give your daughter a palace. We shall enjoy so many years." "No. I can offer you my daughter provided if my daughter's son becomes the king after your death. Then I can offer." "Oh, that I cannot agree, because my eldest son is living. That I cannot agree." "Then I..."

*So Bhīṣma understood that "My father wants to marry that girl, but the only impediment is that the father of the girl is making a condition that her son should be king, and my father is declining because I am present. I should be king." Oh, he at once approached the father of the girl: "What is your condition, sir?" "This is my condition." "All right, I shall not accept kingdom of my father. Your daughter's son will be king. I agree to this." "Oh, no. You may agree, but your son will again claim, because you are the proprietor, you are the prince." "Oh, you think so? Then I shall not marry. I shall not marry. Is that all right?" So then, he was so... He promised that "I shall never marry in my life. That's all right? Then marry your daughter to my father." He was so pious and so strict. This Bhīṣma was brahmacārī from the very beginning. And Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed Rājasūya*-yajña. Rājasūya-yajña means one who performs that sacrifice in that assembly, all the princes of the world are invited, and they select him as the emperor of the world. That is called Rājasūya-yajña. So in that yajña, there were all princes present, and Kṛṣṇa was proposed to become the president of that assembly, although He was young man. So Kṛṣṇa had many... Not many, especially two, Śiśupāla and Dantavakra, they were very much against Kṛṣṇa. So they objected: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa cannot be... There are many others." He wanted that he become president. The protest meeting. At that time, Bhīṣma recommended that "Nobody is present here spotless character as Kṛṣṇa." He recommended like that. "Kṛṣṇa, when He was sixteen years old, He was surrounded by girls, but He had never sex desire. I am brahmacārī from my birth. I think I could not be such restrained personality as Kṛṣṇa." He recommended like that. That is mentioned in Mahābhārata. So this is character.

So taṁ sila rūpa caritaiḥ. Rūpa. It is mentioned that Kṛṣṇa, is mention... His... Just like Lord Caitanya's rūpa is mentioned, tviṣā akṛṣṇa: by complexion He's not black. Similarly, everything is mentioned. So Yamunācārya, that "Your character, Your beauty and Your wonderful work, and accepted... You are accepted by great authorities. You are mentioned in śāstras. In spite of all this, those who are atheists, they'll never accept." So the characteristics of avatāra are there in the śāstra. So we should follow that and, in that way, we shall select... That question is being asked by Sanātana Gosvāmī. We discussed this point yesterday and today also, because it is important point, and further we shall discuss tomorrow.

Thank you very much. (end)



661228CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.354-358

-

New York, December 28, 1966



Prabhupāda:



avatāra nāhi kahe-'āmi avatāra'

*muni saba jāni' kare lakṣaṇa*-vicāra



*So Lord Caitanya says that incarnation, He never advertises Himself that He is avatāra. But experienced munis, those who are liberated souls, those who are expert in Vedic knowledge, they understand that this is avatāra, or incarnation, by the symptoms, as they are stated in the scriptures. In the scripture, the color, the activities, the time and the place and the parents*-everything is described about the incarnation. So, so that, just like everything has to be understood by the symptoms, that is the scientific advancement. Just like a drug is tested in the laboratory and the drug, the symptoms and the taste, how it is, how the color changes, how it tastes in the tongue, everything is described there, so scientists proves, understands the genuineness of a particular chemical by testing. Similarly, nobody should be accepted as incarnation. That is foolishness. Incarnation, they are stated in the scriptures. Their symptoms, everything is there, and one should understand from that. The avatāra never advertises. Anyone who advertises himself that "I am incarnation," he should be at once rejected. He should be at once rejected.



yasyāvatāra jñāyante

śarīriṣv aśarīriṇaḥ

tais tair atulyātiśayair

vīryair dehiṣv asaṅgataiḥ



The first thing is that avatāra, incarnation, He hasn't got this material body. The first symptom is... And still, the avatāra appears before us. Because, so far our senses are concerned, we can see the material objects. We can see a stone. We can see, I mean to say, wood. We can see water. We cannot see even air, the finer material things. We cannot see mind. We know that mind is there in every soul, every body. Every one of us has got mind, but we cannot see. We cannot see the sky. So the..., in the material world also, there are so many finer things which we cannot see. And what to speak of spiritual? So that spiritual, Supreme Spirit, when He appears before us, seeable, so that we can see, so that is His mercy. That is His mercy. Because we cannot see even the soul within ourself; we are seeing only the body. So what to speak of the Supreme Spirit? That is not possible. Yasyāvatāra jñāyante śarīriṣv aśarīriṇaḥ. Therefore it is the inconceivable power that the incarnation of God appears before us.



*'svarūpa'*-lakṣaṇa, āra 'taṭastha-lakṣaṇa'

*ei dui lakṣaṇe 'vastu' jāne muni*-gaṇa



*The symptoms are analyzed in two divisions. Svarūpa*-lakṣaṇa means the symptom which (is) always present. That is called svarūpa-lakṣaṇa. And taṭastha-lakṣaṇa, the symptoms which are sometimes present and sometimes not present. They are called... In this way, the experienced sages, they analyze the characteristics of the avatāra, or God-two symptoms. One symptom is always there. As soon as there is God, that constant symptom is there. And there are other symptoms which may appear, sometimes may not appear.



*ākṛti, prakṛti, svarūpa*-svarūpa-lakṣaṇa

*kārya*-dvārā jñāna-ei taṭastha-lakṣaṇa



*Ākṛti, prakṛti. The form and the activities, all uncommon. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, He married sixteen thousand wives and He divided Himself into sixteen thousand. Kṛṣṇa. This is called ākṛti. This is uncommon. God can expand Himself in any number of forms. We cannot do that. That is the..., symptom of God. Ākṛti, prakṛti. Prakṛti is His nature, supreme nature. As soon as He likes anything to do, He'll do it. There is no impediment. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyat... And He does in such nice way that we cannot conceive how it is being done, nature's way. Ākṛti prakṛti, these are taṭastha lakṣaṇa, uh, svarūpa lakṣaṇa, personal symptoms of God. And kārya*-dvārā jñāna-ei taṭastha-lakṣaṇa. And the activities... Just like Kṛṣṇa, when comes as incarnation, His activities and activities of Rāma, or activities of Nṛsiṁha, activities of Vāmana, these activities may differ according to time, according to place, according to the mission. The activities may be different. But Their, Their ākṛti, Their feature, and Their power-extraordinary. We should understand very nicely that incarnation means Their feature and Their nature-uncommon.



*There may be difference. Just like Buddha. Buddha's activities and Kṛṣṇa's activities, there is difference. Buddha's activity was different because, according to the place, according to the time, according to the audience, the activities are... Avatāra, incarnation, comes when there is necessity. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. When there is discrepancies in the discharge of dharma... Dharma means the prescribed rules by which one elevates himself to the transcendental life. That is dharma, religion. Why in human society there is religion? The purpose is to elevate himself to the transcendental position. That is religion. Where there is no such aim to raise one from the fallen condition to the liberated state, that is not religion. That is sentiment. Religion means that one should be raised from the fallen condition to the highest elevated condition. Therefore there are so many rules and regulations. In the Bhagavad*-gītā the Lord says, yad icchantam, yad icchantam brahmacaryaṁ caranti. Yad icchantam. (aside:) Just open the... I think it is in the Eighth Chapter. Eighth Chapter, fifteenth verse. Open it. (pause) Read it.

Devotee: Mām upetya punar janma [Bg. 8.15].



Prabhupāda: No. Then, before that.



Devotee: Ananya cetaḥ...



Prabhupāda: Before that.



Devotee: Oṁ iti...



Prabhupāda: Yad icchantam. The śloka is yad icchantaṁ brahma... You don't find it. Let me. Let me have the book. (pause) Yes, here. Eleventh.



*yad akṣaraṁ veda*-vido vadanti

*viśanti yad yatayo vīta*-rāgāḥ

yad icchanto brahmacaryaṁ caranti

tat te padaṁ saṅgraheṇa pravakṣye



*Here is the transla... "I shall briefly describe to that state which the knowers of the Vedas call the imperishable, which the ascetics, freed from passion, enter, and desiring which, they lead a life of self*-control." Not... Brahmacarya is celibacy. Translation is not here. Celibacy means completely ceasing from sex life. Yad icchanto brahmacarya. Brahmacarya means celibacy. No sex life. Therefore the brahmacarya āśrama is recommended. The first basic principle of religious life, according to Vedic principle, the students are expected to go to the spiritual master's place and learn how to live without any sex life. For twenty-five years or at least for twenty years, the student is trained up in that way. Then he's allowed to enter into the gṛhastha life to marry. So there is a process. Religion means there must be process. It is not simply mental speculation. Yad icchantaṁ brahmacaryaṁ caranti. Yad icchantaṁ brahmacaryaṁ caranti tat te padaṁ saṅgraheṇa pravakśye. These things are described in the Bhagavad-gītā.



So to understand, to elevate oneself from the fallen condition to the highest liberated condition, one has to be trained up, one has to follow the rules and regulations as they are prescribed. Otherwise, simply some recreation, spiritual recreation, talking something-"This is that; *this is that," "Neti neti"-and I lead my life like anything... That will not help us. Therefore the taṭastha lakṣaṇa. Therefore we accept anyone and everyone as incarnation, because we are not trained up who is incarnation, to see. And, because we want to be cheated, there are so many cheaters who comes as incarnation and this and that, and the society's going on like that. Not only here*-in everywhere, every part of the world. They are not very serious, what is the ultimate aim of spiritual life. Spiritual life and material life is that when you want to enjoy, when we want to be lord of these material resources, that is material life. And when you want to become servant of God, that is spiritual life. They..., there is not much difference between the activities of material life and spiritual life. Only the consciousness has to be changed. When my consciousness is to lord it over the material nature, that is material life, and when my consciousness is to serve Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is spiritual life. So as there are rules and regulations for accelerating your material possession, material life, similarly, there are rules and regulation for spiritual life also.

*So the basic principle is yad icchantaṁ brahmacaryaṁ caranti. One should be very regular. Vīta*-rāgāḥ. Viśanti yad, viśanti yad yatayo vīta-rāgāḥ. Vīta-rāgāḥ. Vīta-rāgāḥ means completely separated from materialistic life. Vīta-rāgāḥ. Rāgāḥ means attachment, and vīta means completely freed. Yad akṣaram, yad akṣaraṁ brahma vido vadanti. Brahma-vida. Brahma..., those who are conversant in Vedic literature. Akṣaram. Akṣaram. Yad akṣaram. The God has His representation in three letters, a, u, m, which is sounded vibrated om. There is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. It is admitted in the Bhagavad-gītā that oṁkāra 'smi. Akṣaram oṁkāro 'smi: "Of all the letters I am the oṁkāra." So Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare and oṁkāra, there is no difference, so far the transcendental sound vibration is concerned. But the objective is different. By oṁkāra one attains impersonal existence in the brahmajyoti, and by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, one attains the spiritual body and he's situated in the spiritual planets. We have many times discussed that there are spiritual planets. That is the difference. So far quality is concerned, both of them are spiritual, oṁkāra or Hare Kṛṣṇa.

So,

bhāgavatārambhe vyāsa maṅgalācaraṇe

'parameśvara' nirūpila ei dui lakṣaṇe



*Now how the two different characteristics of God can be analyzed, that is mentioned in the beginning of the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Lord Caitanya is referring. Lord Caitanya's mission as preaching was based on, cent percent, on the principles of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Bhagavad-gītā is the basic, I mean to say, preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore in Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find most of the parallel passages and evidences offered by Lord Caitanya, they are from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā and some of the Purāṇas. Just like Viṣṇu Purāṇa, Padma Purāṇa, they are called sattvika purāṇa, purāṇas in the modes of goodness. There are eighteen purāṇas, six for each quality, modes of the nature. Six, six purāṇas for the person who are in the modes of ignorance, six purāṇas for the person who are in the modes of passion, and six purāṇas for persons who are in the mode of goodness, those who are actually qualified brāhmaṇas. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called Mahā-purāṇa. Mahā-purāṇa means the topmost of all the purāṇas. You have seen the review by the Theosophical Society of India of my books. They have stated this very word, Mahā-purāṇa, Bhāgavatam, the Mahā-purāṇa.



*So Lord Caitanya gives evidences from the Mahā*-purāṇam, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the Supreme Lord, the Absolute Truth, is analyzed in two characteristics. What are they? The, the personal characteristics and taṭastha characteristics. Taṭastha means they are sometimes manifested and they are not sometimes manifested. So this material world is the taṭastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the personal characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha, or, I mean to say, taṭastha means marginal, marginal characteristics to the permanent characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation. We should not remain in the marginal state, but we should go to the permanent state.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



661229CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.358-359

-

New York, December 29, 1966



Prabhupāda:



bhāgavatārambhe vyāsa maṅgalācaraṇe

'parameśvara' nirūpila ei dui lakṣaṇe



So we have been discussing about the symptoms, characteristics, of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One characteristic is that is eternally constant, or present with Him, and another characteristic is that it is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. These two characteristics are called the superior energy and the inferior energy. Manifestation of the superior energy is always constant, present in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And manifestation of the inferior energy, that is not always present. It is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Just like we have got also. It is very easy to understand. We have got several energies, personally. And we have got some mean energy also. That is within us. That is not always manifested. Sometimes I commit theft. That is my energy. That is my energy, but it is not always manifested. This is a crude example.



*Similarly, everything is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Bhāgavata explains in the beginning of Bhāgavata that everything has its origin from the Supreme Lord. Everything. Whatever you have got. It has, it originates (?) from the Supreme Lord. And that is also confirmed in other Vedic literature. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. Imāni bhūtāni, all these things which are created, there is a source. That is Brahman. That is Brahman. The Vedānta*-sūtra also confirms this, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is Brahman? This is explained in one code word: Janmādy asya yataḥ, Brahman is that from whom everything is emanating. That... Brahman is that from whom, or from which, whatever you like, everything is emanated. So that Supreme Source, summum bonum, of everything is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. That Supreme Source of everything, what is the nature of that Supreme Source of everything? Now the Bhāgavata says, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca arthesu abhijñaḥ. He is conscious.

First qualification is conscious. The Supreme Source cannot be unconscious. Why? Because we are conscious being. So we are also emanation from the Supreme Lord, the living entities. Some of the living entities are moving, some of the living entities, they do not move. Just like the trees, the hills, the mountains, they have got also their life. So they are not moving. We are moving. Man, human being, cats, dogs and ants, so many there are. So they are conscious. So, unless the Supreme Lord is conscious, the Supreme Source of all generation, wherefrom this consciousness can come? So the philosophy that the Supreme Source is void, how you can maintain? Wherefrom this consciousness comes? They say that consciousness is generated by the combination of matter. Up till now, no scientist has proved that, by combination of chemicals and matter, physical things, one can produce consciousness. So the Bhāgavata very nicely describes that the Supreme Source of everything, He is conscious. Conscious. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca [SB 1.1.1].

*Now He is conscious in two ways: anvayāt itarataś ca. Directly and indirectly. Just like we are also conscious. But we are directly conscious. Indirectly, we are not conscious. Indirectly we are not conscious. But God is all*-powerful supreme consciousness. Therefore He's directly conscious and indirectly conscious. In the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find that Kṛṣṇa says that vedāhaṁ samatītāni vartamānāni ca bhārata [Bg. 7.26]. "I know everything about atītāni, what is past, everything what is past, and I know what is present, I know what is future." And, on this understanding, Kṛṣṇa says in the Second Chapter, you may remember, that "You, Me, and all these persons who have assembled here, they were individual person in the past, they are individual persons now, and they will continue to be individual person in the future." This is consciousness, anvayāt itarataś ca. Now again, what sort of consciousness? Wherefrom He has got this consciousness? Just like we have got our consciousness from the Supreme Lord, the Supreme Source, and wherefrom the Supreme, or God, He has got His consciousness?

*So Bhāgavatam says svarāṭ. Svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means He is independent. His consciousness is not dependent on others' consciousness. Svarāṭ. God, He has got all the knowledge. Yesterday we have been discussing Bhagavān. Bhagavān is full of all knowledge. Wherefrom He got this knowledge? Now our experience is that we go to school, college, and get knowledge. Wherefrom He gets knowledge? The Bhāgavata replies, svarāṭ. He's self*-sufficient, full of knowledge. These are the differences. So these qualifications are always present. This is called svarūpa-lakṣaṇa. Unless God is independent, unless God is conscious, indirectly and directly, He cannot be Supreme Source. This is called svarūpa-lakṣaṇa, constantly present. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ.

*Now people may argue that in the creation we find Brahmā the first*-born living creature, and he has given us the Vedic knowledge. So this, in the creation, because he's the first living creature, then he is svarāṭ. He is also independent. Why God is independent? This living creature, he's first-born. He's independent. Otherwise, how could he give the knowledge of Vedas? So the reply is tene brahma hṛdā. No. He's also dependent. He got the knowledge from the Supreme Lord. How is that? He's the first-born living creature. How he got knowledge from God? Tene brahma hṛdā. Brahmā, the Vedic knowledge, was imparted into the heart of Brahmā. Why? Because God is situated within everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. These things are very nicely described in Bhāgavatam in the beginning. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Ādi-kavaye means Brahma. Kavi means the learned. Kavinaṁ purāṇam anuśāsitāram. In the Bhagavad-gītā. He's the kavinaṁ purāṇam. He's the oldest learned man. Oldest. Purāṇam. Purāṇam means oldest. Then why God is not recognized? Now muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ.

*To understand God, even the greatest of the greatest thinkers, philosophers, or sage or saintly person, they are also bewildered. Cannot understand. Panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamya. So Lord Caitanya is (indistinct) that He has got two characteristics. One characteristic is..., that is always present. What is that? He's independent and full of knowledge and He's conscious. Unconsciousness is not the qualification of God. Voidness cannot be accepted as the qualification of the Supreme. The Supreme must be conscious. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo yatra trisargo 'mṛṣā [SB 1.1.1]. And yatra, in Him rests the material manifestation. And what is this material manifestation? Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam. It is simply exchange of fire, water and earth. Of course, there other things are eight elements, fire, water, earth, ether and air. This is the gross material elements. And the finer material elements are the mind, intelligence and false ego. We have discussed this in the Bhagavad-gītā. So this material manifestation is nothing but a manipulation, or a preparation of these things. Just... Just like we present sometime varieties of foodstuff. Kacaurīs, (indistinct ), purī, and rasagullā, and so many things. But what are these? Varieties of grains and milk, fat, that's all. Similarly, all these varieties, manifestations in the material world, they are... Yatra, yatra, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo, oh, and yatra trisargo 'mṛṣā.

*Amṛṣā. It is false. But it appears to be just like real. Foolish living entities, under the spell of illusory energy, they have accepted this false exchange of material elements as reality. This is called materialism. One who has accepted this false representation of reality, they are called materialists. And one who knows the real position of this material world, he's spiritualist. That is the difference between materialism and spiritualism. So this, this material representation, false representation, are temporary. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy, they do not say false. Why they will say false? God is real. His energy is real. You cannot say material energy as unreal, because God is there, and His energy is there. Just like the fire is there, the heat is there, the temperature is there. You cannot say temperature false. It may be manifested at some time. Or it may not manifest. Just like the temperature of sun is not perceived nowadays because it is due to the (?) cold season. But the temperature is the same, but it is manifested during June*-July. It is very strongly, and other seasons, it is not manifested. Similarly, this material energy, you cannot say that it is false. It is false. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy is perfect. As the temperature (indistinct), it is sometimes manifested. And this is called taṭasthā. This characteristic, this symptom of the Supreme Lord, is called taṭasthā. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But, so far the superior energy is concerned, that is always manifested. That is explained in the next line. Dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Now that is paraṁ satyam, the Supreme Truth, where there is no such temporary manifestation.

*So this is knowledge and ignorance. The ignorant materialistic, they are captivated, durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninas. What is the materialistic point of the...? Now durāśayā. They are thinking to have peace and prosperity in this nonsense. Durāśayā. This is called durāśayā. That will never be fulfilled. The foolish people... That will never be fulfilled. They're trying for that. Durāśayā na te viduḥ. Why they are trying so? Na te viduḥ. They are fools. They do not know. What they do not know? Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. What is their self-interest, they do not know. And what is that self-interest? Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. Their self-interest is to go back to home, go back to Godhead. That is their real self-interest. One should be interested. Selfish, this is real selfishness, that I must know what I am, what is the goal of my life. But these people they do not know what is the goal of life. They are trying to adjust things here, but it will never be adjusted because the nature of this material world is like that. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Trisargo 'mṛṣām. It is a false, or temporary, representation of...

So the common substance is that the Supreme Lord, God, or Kṛṣṇa, has got two..., that He has got many diverse energies; *all these diverse energies are, I mean to say, summarized in three division, the spiritual energy, the material energy, and the marginal energy. We are the mar... We are living entities. We are marginal. We are sometimes captivated by the material energy and sometimes we are in spiritual energy. Now our attempt is, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means, we are trying to transfer ourself from this temporary energy to the permanent energy. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, mahātmānas tu mām, daivī prakṛtim āśritāḥ. Daivī prakṛti means the superior energy, divine energy. This is also divine energy, but that is directly. This is indirectly. This is temporary. Nothing, without, nothing can exist without being divine because everything is coming out from the Lord. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Therefore the impersonalists, they have taken everything as Brahman. That is their... That is also true. Everything is Brahman. That's right. That's all right. Just like in this store. This whole thing is store. That's all right. But we have to take advantage of the store, not sitting in this, I mean to say, lighted(?)... You have to sit here. If you say, "That is also sitting place. Why not go there? And deliver the lecture from there?" No. We have to utilize here. So you have to take advantage of the best. Everything is energy of Kṛṣṇa. That's all right. But we have to take the advantage of the better energy, superior energy. So na te viduḥ, they do not know how to take advantage of that superior energy. So there are two energies, the superior and inferior, or the spiritual and material. The material energy... This is the definition and the sum and substance of the definition and activities of the supreme summum bonum, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the Supreme Source of everything.

*So, but the superior energy in which the Supreme Lord is always staying... Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto [Bs. 5.37]. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20], puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha bhaktyā. That puruṣa, that Supreme Lord has to understood bhaktyā, not otherwise. That is stated. Only through Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other way. You cannot understand the Supreme Lord. That Supreme Lord is dhāmnā svena sadā. Sadā means always, eternal. Dhāmnā svena. In His own abode. His own abode. Dhāmnā svena nirasta-kuhakam. Where there is no illusion. Nirasta-kuhaka. Kuhaka means illusion. Just like here we, everything is kuhaka. Everything is made of earth, water, temporary things. Just like a doll. Doll is the... You find, you sometimes find in store, storefront of big mercantile firm, there is nice girl standing with dress. So that is kuhakam, illusion. That is illusion. Those who know, "Oh, it is a doll." Similarly, that is the difference between a man in knowledge and man in ignorance. They are accepting this material doll as reality. That is materialism. And those who are in knowledge, they know, "No, it is doll." The reality is different. So sadā nirasta, there is no, kuhakam... That doll illusion is not there. Sadā nirasta-kuhakam. There, satyaṁ param, and there exists the Supreme Truth.

Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. This dhīmahi is Gāyatrī mantra. Those who are brāhmaṇas, who are elevated, they are given this Gāyatrī mantra, oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi. Dhīmahi. That dhīmahi word is used here in the *Bhāgavatam*. So *Bhāgavatam* is meant for persons who are already in the qualification of brāhmaṇa. It is not meant for persons who are in the qualification of śūdra. Because this very word suggests, dhīmahi. Dhīmahi is meant for brāhmaṇas, Gāyatrī mantra. So this is to be understood, that God is always, just like real characteristic, spiritual energy. And another characteristic, material energy, that is temporary.

Thank you very much. Any questions? Any question?

*Disciple: Yes. What is the difference between karma*-yoga and bhakti-yoga?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, we have not discussed just now karma*-yoga. Anyway, karma-yoga and bhakti-yoga. Karma-yoga is meant... Yoga, first thing, yoga. Yoga means linking, connecting. So any yoga, there are many different kinds of yoga, any yoga means linking oneself with the Supreme. So those who are too much addicted to karma... Karma means work. Just like we see in your New York City. Everyone is busy with karma. Karma means you do something, there is some result and you enjoy or suffer. That is called karma. They are doing business, they are doing so many things. There is result. So karma has an effect. So it may be good or bad. So one has to enjoy or suffer. So those who are too much addicted to this karma, activities, when those activities are done with yoga... Yoga means linking with the Supreme. That is called karma-yoga.



*Disciple: Bhakti*-yoga, is...?



*Prabhupāda: Bhakti*-yoga. Karma-yoga is almost the same bhakti-yoga. And bhakti-yoga is direct. Bhakti-yoga is... That, bhaktas, they are not addicted to karma, but they are simply addicted to the service of the Lord. That service of the Lord and ordinary work sometimes appears one and the same. Just like we are also typewriting. They, your mother was asking the other day, "Oh, you have got dictaphone?" "Yes." "Oh, why do you say that materialism bad?" "And we are spiritualizing this. You have produced these material things. We eve spiritualizing." So sometimes ordinary karma and bhakti appears to be the same. But they are not the same. They are not the same. Because everything, the source of emanation; we have nothing to hate from materialism because materialism is the energy of God. Why shall we hate? We have nothing to hate. We don't hate materialism. The materialism... They do not understand what is materialism. Materialism means to forget the source of all this. That is materialism. One who knows the source of everything is God, for him, there is no materialism. Because he utilizes everything for that source. So for a advanced devotee, there is nothing materialism. There is nothing material. Everything is spiritualism. (end)





661231CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.367-84

-

New York, December 31, 1966



Prabhupāda:



śaktyāveśāvatāra kṛṣṇera asaṅkhya gaṇana

*dig*-daraśana kari mukhya mukhya jana



Lord Caitanya says that incarnation of opulence... Śaktyāveśa avatāra means incarnation of opulence. We have analyzed the opulences of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So śaktyāveśa avatāra... An incarnation who represents a particular opulence of the Supreme Lord, he is called śaktyāveśa avatāra. So Lord Caitanya says that there are innumerable incarnations like that, of whom only the principal, I mean to say, principal incarnations, they are mentioned herein. And who are they?



'sanakādi', 'nārada', 'pṛthu', 'paraśurāma',

*jīva*-rūpa 'brahmāra' āveśāvatāra-nāma



*Jīva*-rūpa 'brahmāra' āveśa. Brahma, the first creature of this universe, he's also considered as one of the śaktyāveśa avatāras.



Now, so far our experience is concerned, Lord Caitanya says there are innumerable. So how we can accept a avatāra, a śaktyāveśa avatāra, whose names are not mentioned herein? Then we have to... As in the beginning, Lord Caitanya says that by the symptoms we can understand that He is śaktyāveśa. By the symptoms and activities and influence. So what is that symptom? Symptom is that eternal and temporary. So avatāra, incarnation, comes to glorify the eternal existence of the Supreme Lord. So any avatāra, any incarnation, he comes to glorify that "There is spiritual kingdom, there is God, and I have come to reclaim you to back to Godhead, back to home." This is the symptom. So therefore, by that symptom, we accept Lord Jesus Christ as śaktyāveśa avatāra, or Hazrat Muhammad, he's also. Because these two religious leaders of the world, they preached about the glorification of the Supreme Lord. And they sacrificed everything for preaching the glories of the Lord. Therefore... And their influence and their followers, there are... These are the symptoms by which we can understand that Jesus Christ and Hazrat Muhammad was, were śaktyāveśa avatāras.

So far Buddha is concerned, he's also considered śaktyāveśa avatāra. He preached this nirvāṇa philosophy. Although he did not speak about God, because it is considered that he was himself God, but the people amongst whom he preached, they were mostly atheistic people; *therefore he did not preach about God. But he did not deny also. He simply wanted to make extinction of this present worldly activities. That was, yes... Nirvāṇa. And he represented the sacrifice of renouncement. He..., you may remember that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, out of His six opulences, one opulence is renouncement. So Lord Buddha's life is renouncement. He was prince. He, he was in a very young time. He renounced the world and underwent severe penances. These are the symptoms by which we can understand that he's also śaktyāveśa avatāra. And the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam. Anyone, not only Lord Buddha or others, but anyone, Lord, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, anyone who has got some extraordinary power, uncommon power, he's to be considered vibhu. Śaktyāveśa avatāra, there are two kinds, one directly empowered for particular mission, comes from the transcendental spiritual sky, and others, those who are in this material world, but they have got some specific power, uncommon power, not found in ordinary man. They are called vibhūti. This vibhūti (is) explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo-'ṁśa sambhavam. That is out of the opulence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

sanakādye 'jñāna'-śakti, nārade śakti 'bhakti'

*brahmāya 'sṛṣṭi'-śakti, anante 'bhū*-dhāraṇa'-śakti



*Now, so far the principal śaktyāveśa avatāras are concerned, as mentioned by Lord Caitanya, now, what are the manifestation of opulences in each of these śaktyāveśa avatāras? He says that sanakādye, the Kumāras, the four Kumāras-Sanaka, Sanātana, Sananda, Sanat-kumāra-these four Kumāras, they were vastly learned, and they..., first they preached the philosophical way of understanding the Absolute Truth. Sanakādye. Later on, they become devoted, devotees, and they have got a sampradāya, or party, they are called Nimbārka-sampradāya. Sanakādye 'jñāna'-śakti. Now we have analyzed that the Supreme Lord has the opulence of knowledge, full knowledge. So these four Kumāras-kumāras means unmarried brahmacārīs*-they were sons of Brahmā. Because in the beginning Brahmā begot so many sons, and each of them were asked to increase the population. Sanaka, Sananda, Sanātana, they were also requested by their father to increase population, but they refused. They said, "No, we are not going to be entangled in these material affairs. We shall remain kumāras, brahmacārī, and preach the glories of God," by which Brahmā was angry. And while he was angry, from his anger Rudra, Śiva, was produced, and Lord Śiva is therefore supposed to be son of Brahmā.



*So these four Kumāras, they represented the knowledge opulence of the Supreme Lord. Nārada, Nārada, he's also śaktyāveśa avatāra. He was, in his previous life, he was a maidservant's son, but by the association of devotees, he rose up to this position, Nārada. Nārada's position is very exalted as devotee. All of the devotees of the, in this material world, more or less, they are all disciples of Nārada. Vyāsadeva is also a disciple of Nārada. Prahlāda Mahārāja*-these are big devotees-he's..., he was also a disciple of Nārada. And Dhruva Mahārāja, he was also disciple of Nārada. Vālmīki, he was also disciple of Nārada. So Nārada is the representation of the devotional path of opulence. Brahmāya 'sṛṣṭi'-śakti. And the creative opulence was manifested in Brahmā. Creative.

*Anante 'bhū*-dhāraṇa'. Ananta, Śeṣaśāyī, what is known as law of gravitation, that is mentioned in the Vedic scriptures as sankarasa, who is supposed to be supporting all these planets in the air. 'Bhu-dhāraṇa'-śakti. 'Bhu-dhāraṇa'-śakti means all the planets are supported by Śeṣaśāyī. It is described in the Vedic literature that He has got many hoods, just like serpent has got hood. And each hood, each planet, all these planets are resting.

*śeṣe 'sva*-sevana'-śakti, pṛthute pālana'

*paraśurāme 'duṣṭa*-nāśaka-vīrya-sañcāraṇa'



*Śeṣe, Śeṣa-avatāra, He is personally serving the Supreme Lord as Mahā Viṣṇu, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. You have seen the picture that Viṣṇu is lying on a serpent bed. That serpent bed is supposed to be Śeṣa-avatāra. And pṛthute, Mahārāja, King Pṛthu, he was ideal king. Therefore 'pālana', God has another opulence: maintenance. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That Supreme One is maintaining so many, innumerable eternals. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eka bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So this maintenance performance, opulence, was invested to Pṛthu Mahārāja. He exhibited extraordinary power, how to maintain the citizens, as king and subjects. Paraśurāme 'duṣṭa-nāśaka-vīrya-sañcāraṇa' Paraśurāma... Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. Under two, these two missions, the Lord comes, incarnates, descends. And Paraśurāma was supposed to kill the duṣṭa, the wicked kṣatriyas, when they forgot to rule over the world as bona fide kṣatriyas. They..., they..., they were killed twenty*-one times, and it is mentioned in the Mahābhārata during that killing process, many kṣatriyas fled from, fled away from India and they settled in other parts of the world, especially in Europe. It is mentioned in the Mahābhārata. So Paraśurāma was especially meant, vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, to kill the miscreants.



So,

*jñāna-śakty-ādi*-kalayā

yatrāviṣṭo janārdanaḥ

ta āveśā nigadyante

jīvā eva mahattamāḥ



*Another definition is given by Sanātana Gosvāmī. This same Sanātana Gosvāmī who is now being taught by Lord Caitanya, he also has written many books. These two brothers, Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, and their nephew, Jīva Gosvāmī, composed many valuable literatures. So Sanātana Gosvāmī has written one book, Laghu*-bhāgavatāmṛtam. Laghu-bhāgavatāmṛtam, supplementary to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So in that Laghu-bhāgavatāmṛtam book, he has written,



*jñāna-śaktya-ādi*-kalayā

yatrāviṣṭo janārdanaḥ

ta āveśā nigadyante

jīvā eva mahattamāḥ



He has defined that these śaktyāveśa avatāra, they are all living entities; *they are not on the level of Viṣṇu*-tattva. But they have special power and special, I mean to say, opulence to glorify the Supreme Lord.



*'vibhūti' kahiye yaiche gītā*-ekādaśe

jagat vyāpila kṛṣṇa-śakty-ābhāsāveśe



Now that vibhūti is, is mentioned by Lord Caitanya. That vibhūtimat sattvam, śaktyāveśa, there are many, many... We find in the history so many extraordinary, powerful men come and go. They are called vibhūti of the Supreme Lord.



yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ

śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā

tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ

*mama tejo-'ṁśa*-sambhavam



*Anyone extraordinary. You'll be, I mean to..., pleased to learn that in India, the king is considered vibhūtimat sattvam. King. He is also considered as the incarnation of God, king. Because when Sanātana, this Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he resigned from government service... So, when the King, Nawab Shah, Nawab Hussain Shah, came to his house-"What is the matter that my minister Sanātana is not joining office? And he's taking leave under so many pretexts?" So when he personally came to the house of Sanātana Gosvāmī... He was not at that time Gosvāmī. His name was Dabira Khāsa. Khāsa shah. So he was received very well, and when the Nawab Shah said... There was some topics, conversation with the minister and the Nawab. The minister wanted to resign, and Nawab Shah did not like that idea. So at last it was... Nawab Shah said that "If you whimsically, whimsically resign your responsible post, then I shall arrest you." At this order, Sanātana Gosvāmī replied that "If you think I shall be punished, I shall accept it, because you are God's representative. You are God's representative." So this was the idea of king and Nawab. Now, although he was Muhammadan and he was brāhmaṇa, but, so far the respect of a king is concerned, Sanātana Gosvāmī rightly told him that "You are Nawab. You are king. You are not ordinary man. Therefore you are empowered by the Supreme Lord. So anything you punish..." Because king's punishment has to be accepted. And in the Manu*-saṁhitā it is said that when king punishes a citizen, he is reduced in his sinful actions so that he may not subjected in his next birth for that sinful reaction if he undergoes the punishment of a king. These are stated there.



So, vibhūtimat...

atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*So ekāṁśena, ekāṁśena, this partial, plenary representation of the Supreme Lord, Paramātmā, Viṣṇu, Mahā Viṣṇu, they are also parts and parcels. Viṣṇu parts. Svāṁśa. Viṣṇu, or the Supreme Lord, expands Himself in two ways. One way is Viṣṇu expansion, and the other way is the jīva, these living entities expansion. We are also expansions of the Supreme Lord. Eko bahu śyāma. He alone, He has become so many. And why? What is the purpose of becoming so many? The purpose is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). He wants to enjoy Himself with so many. So practically our creation is for enjoying in the company, in the association of the Supreme Lord. But we thought that it is better to become an imitation God and try to lord it over the material nature. That is not possible; therefore we are suffering.



*eita kahiluṅ śakty-āveśa*-avatāra

*bālya*-paugaṇḍa-dharmera śunaha vicāra



*Now the Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is analyzing the characteristics of God, Kṛṣṇa. Now He has explained about His different incarnations. Now He says, about His ages, how the Lord is old. Lord never becomes old. Ādyaṁ purāṇa puruṣaṁ nava*-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that, although He's the oldest personality, ādyam, because He's the original person from whom everything has come out. Everything has generated. So we living entities, we are also sons and grandsons of that Supreme Personality of Godhead. So the Brahma-saṁhitā says although He's the oldest person... In the Bhagavad-gītā He is stated by Arjuna as great-grandfather. Prapitāmahaś ca. You'll find this word in the Bhagavad-gītā. Because Brahmā is addressed as pitāmaha, grandfather. He's the original first creature in this material world, in this universe, and everyone has come from him. Therefore he is called pitāmaha. Pitāmaha means grandfather. And, because he's born also of Viṣṇu, therefore Viṣṇu is prapitāmaha [Bg. 11.39].



*So the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead, is the oldest of all, but whenever you'll find, you'll find just like a young man. Ādyaṁ purāṇa puruṣaṁ nava*-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. Nava-yauvanam means just a fresh youth. So that is being explained, explained by Lord Caitanya, the age of... This is another characteristics of God. Kiśora-śekhara-dharmī vrajendra-nandana. Kiśora-śekhara. Kiśora. Kiśora is... Kiśora age is called from eleven years to sixteen years. These teen years, or, in English, what is called? Adolescent? Yes. This, this age... So Kṛṣṇa represents Himself just like a boy from eleven to sixteen years old. Not more than that. Even in the Battle of Kurukṣetra, when He was great-grandfather, still, His feature was just like a young boy.

*kiśora-śekhara*-dharmī vrajendra-nandana

*prakaṭa*-līlā karibāre yabe kare mana



*Prakaṭa*-līlā. Prakaṭa-līlā means... Prakaṭa and aprakaṭa. Just like the sun, at night, we cannot see. This is called aprakaṭa. And when we can see, during daytime, that is called prakaṭa. Sun is already there, in the sky, but at night, by certain arrangement of the planetary system, we cannot see. That is called aprakaṭa. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there. So sometimes He is manifested within this material world; *sometimes He is not manifested. So when He desires to manifest Himself in this material world, rather, when He descends, then He... Prakaṭa*-līlā karibare yabe...



*ādau prakaṭa karāya mātā*-pitā-bhakta-gaṇe

*pāche prakaṭa haya janmādika*-līlā-krame



*So before His coming, some of His devotees, they come first, just to become His father, become His mother, become His family members, like that. Because He does not do anything which is against the process of this world. A man is born out of his father and mother, so He has to take His birth from a father and mother. So these fathers and mothers were, are first sent. I think in the Bible they call messiahs, or what you have? Similarly, nobody can become the father and mother of God. But, when He manifests Himself in this material world, He shows that "He's My father." Just like Kṛṣṇa accepted father, Vasudeva, Vasudeva as His father and Devakī as His mother. Or His foster*-father, Nanda Mahārāja, and His foster-mother, Yaśodā. So they are all devotees. Kṛṣṇa's friend, Kṛṣṇa's father, Kṛṣṇa's everyone, when He displays Himself, they are all devotees. He's the Supreme. Nobody can be father of Kṛṣṇa.



vayaso vividhatve 'pi

*sarva*-bhakti-rasāśrayaḥ

dharmī kiśora evātra

*nitya*-līlā-vilāsavān



*Nitya*-līlā-vilāsavān means eternally He's..., He's manifesting His pastimes. Just like Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-līlā, the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa and His different pastimes in this material world. In the..., on this earth was manifested, that thing is going on, nitya-līlā. As I have several times explained to you that the sun, sunrise and sunset, is going on every moment. Every moment. You inquire by, by communication you'll find in some country, there is always sunrise and some country there is always... Any country, you'll find. Similarly, kṛṣṇa-līlā, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, are going on in some of the universes, in any of... There are innumerable universes. In some of the universes He is there already.



*pūtanā*-vadhādi yata līlā kṣaṇe kṣaṇe

saba līlā nitya prakaṭa kare anukrame



*From His childhood, just on the lap of His mother, He killed the demon Pūtanā. Similarly, such pastimes are going on every moment. Every moment. That is called nitya*-līlā. In some of the universes... When the round (?) comes in this universe, it takes so many years. For millions and billions years. Just you can imagine how many millions and trillions of universes are there. Ananta brahmāṇḍa, tāra nāhika gaṇana. Ananta means innumerable universes are there. Nāhika gaṇana: nobody can count.



ananta brahmāṇḍa, tāra nāhika gaṇana

kona līlā kona brahmāṇḍe haya prakaṭana



Some of His pastimes is going on in either of the innumerable brahmāṇḍas.



*ei*-mata saba līlā-yena gaṅgā-dhāra

*se*-se līlā prakaṭa kare vrajendra-kumāra



Just like the waves of the Ganges going on, nobody can count. Similarly, all the incarnations of different pastimes in different universes, that is going on.



*krame bālya*-paugaṇḍa-kaiśoratā-prāpti

*rāsa-ādi līlā kare, kaiśore nitya*-sthiti



*So kṛṣṇa*-līlā means beginning from His childhood, up to the age of sixteenth year, when He performed the rāsa-līlā, this is actual kṛṣṇa-līlā. And beyond that līlā, when Kṛṣṇa left Vṛndāvana and came to Dvārakā, that is not kṛṣṇa-līlā; *that is Vāsudeva līlā, Kṛṣṇa in His Vāsudeva feature, that līlā. It is stated that Kṛṣṇa never goes out of Goloka Vṛndāvana. When He goes, He goes in His Vāsudeva feature. Kṛṣṇa expands Himself*-Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa. Therefore when this is described in the Vaiṣṇava literature, a great literary novelist, Bankimacandra Chatterji, he misunderstood that Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana is different from the Kṛṣṇa of Kurukṣetra or Dvārakā. He has analyzed, Kṛṣṇa-caritra, character of Kṛṣṇa. But in everything, he has very much eulogized.



So we shall discuss tomorrow. Any questions? (end)



670101CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.385-394

-

New York, January 1, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*'nitya*-līlā' kṛṣṇera sarva-śāstre kaya

bujhite nā pāre līlā kemane 'nitya' haya



*Nitya means eternal. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, appearance and dis..., disappearance, is continuous and eternal. There is no stoppage. Lord Caitanya says, bujhite nā pāre līlā kemane 'nitya' haya. Ordinary persons, common men, cannot understand how kṛṣṇa*-līlā, Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance, can be eternal. Generally, we think that Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years before; *now He's no longer. So either He's dead or gone. Just like ordinary man takes his birth and stay here for some time and then he goes away-no more, no trace of that particular man's activities. He's lost in the whirlpool of this material ocean. Neither exactly in a similar body, that particular living entity will again come back. Once. This form which you have got, material form, it is just like a bubble in the ocean. It is formed somehow or other according to our past actions and reactions, and it will stay for hundred years at most. Then it will disappear. And there will be no trace where that particular individual soul has gone. Of course, there is account in the books of Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. He says, "I know everything." And He's always constant companion. As Supersoul of the individual soul, He knows. But we, the persons of a particular person's relatives, father, mother, brother, all these things*-who knows? Nobody can give information. But Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance is not like that, because He's not different from His body. We are, in our conditioned stage, we are different from our body. But Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's body is the same thing. This is to be understood. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda vigraha. His form is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. This material body is not like that. Therefore we cannot understand how kṛṣṇa-līlā is eternal, continuous eternal.



That is being instructed by Lord Caitanya:

dṛṣṭānta diyā kahi tabe loka yadi jāne

*kṛṣṇa*-līlā-nitya, jyotiścakra-pramāṇe



*Jyotiścakra*-pramāṇe. Jyotiścakra means orbit of the planets. The, a planet is moving in its orbit continually. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa-līlā is also just like an orbit. He's giving very nice example: orbit of the earth, orbit of the moon, orbit of the sun. The sun is also not fixed up. According to Vedic astronomy, the sun is also moving. We have got information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and other Vedic literatures, Brahma-saṁhitā. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. The sun is considered to be the eyes of the Supreme Lord, and the sun is the king of all other planets. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Savitā means the sun. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa tejāḥ. Sura-mūrtiḥ. Every planet is dominated by a particular demigod. There is a, a principal living entity who is differently named. Just like this moon planet is called Candraloka because the predominating deity there is called Candra; *the sun planet is called Sūryaloka because the predominating deity is called Sūrya. Sūrya, Candra*-these are official names, just like "governor." But the particular name is also there. Governor is a particular person. Just like "president." President is a general name, but he has got his particular personal name. Similarly, all these predominating deities of Candraloka and Sūryaloka, they are, these are official names. Anybody who's predominating over the sun planet, he's called Sūrya, but he has got his personal name. That name is Vivasvān. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Who is that Vivasvān? Vivasvān is the present predominating deity in the sun planet.



*This sun planet, according to your modern science, it is fixed. But we cannot understand why sun should be fixed. Every planet has its orbit. So sun must be moving in the orbit. That is described in the Brahma*-saṁhitā: yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā. He's the king of all planets-rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa tejāḥ. Aśeṣa tejāḥ means inexhaustible temperature. The sun planet has got inexhaustible heat and temperature. That we can experience. Nobody can say what is there that the sun planet is diffusing unlimited temperature and heat for millions and trillions of years, still, it is not exhausted. So this is called aśeṣa. Aśeṣa. There is no end. Just like we are in the fire. Unless we put some fuel, fuel, it is not possible to continue the temperature. But there, the supply is so, so sufficient that there is no end of temperature. Every planet is self-sufficient. That is described in the Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat... [Īśo mantra 1]. No. Pūrṇam idam, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇaṁ pūrṇāt udacyate pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Īśo Invocation]. The Supreme Lord is pūrṇa. Pūrṇa means complete. And whatever He creates, that is also complete. The actions and reactions of sun planet to diffuse heat all over the universe is complete. By Lord's grace, by Lord's creative power, energy. That is also inferior energy. This is not superior energy. This is inferior energy. So still it is complete.

*So... So He is giving example as the planets, sun planet, moon planet and other planets, are moving in their orbits, similarly, kṛṣṇa*-līlā has got a orbit, and the līlā is going on. As the sun is moving or the planets, the earth planet is moving exactly at the same time. Just after twenty-four hours it will be meridian, and at 12 o'clock, just twenty-four hours. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's līlā, exactly after certain millions of years, it will be seen in this planet. Similarly, there are innumerable universes, and it is moving from this, that, this, that... Now, just like kṛṣṇa-līlā, just Kṛṣṇa born at, at the prison house of Kaṁsa... Vasudeva, father, and Devakī, mother. Immediately, as soon as the child is born, the next, the next universe, there is birth. So same very thing. Just like now it is quarter to eight according to sun calculation. Immediately, you'll find some other place quarter to eight. Immediately you'll find quarter to eight in other place. Immediately... So quarter to eight you cannot change. Quarter to eight will exist within this movement of the sun planet or earthly planet. Anywhere, somebody, somewhere must be there quarter to eight. At any time. Even at 12 o'clock at night you inquire, "What is quarter to eight of the sun planet?" you'll have. Is it not a fact? This is called nitya-līlā. How nicely Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described.

*So Kṛṣṇa*-līlā is always going on like that. Kṛṣṇa's birth, Janmāṣṭamī... We observe Janmāṣṭamī. But that Janmāṣṭamī is going on every moment. Janmāṣṭamī is going on. Kṛṣṇa's nitya-līlā. Kṛṣṇa-līlā-nitya, jyotiścakra-pramāṇe. Jyotiścakre sūrya yena phire rātri-dine. Now here it is also, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said that here sūrya is also on the orbit. Sapta-dvīpāmbudhi laṅghi' phire krame krame. Sapta-dvīpa. Now, according to Vedic calculation, this earth has seven, I mean to say, islands. Just like crossing the sea, we have come to your country from India. The crossing the sea means there are different islands. Now you can calculate the Asia, Europe, America, and, and, how many?

Devotee: Seven.



Prabhupāda: Seven, there are?



Devotee: Six.



*Prabhupāda: So that is calculation in Vedic know... Sapta-dvīpa. Sapta means seven. As the sun is coming in the orbit and crossing all the seven islands, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also coming in this universe, that universe, that universe. When He comes into this universe, He, He is seen in that tract of land which is called Vṛndāvana. Therefore that tract of land is so sacred. Lord Caitanya describes by His mission, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad dhāma vṛndāvanam. Ārādhya, the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, is worshipable Deity, and His dhāma, and His headquarters*-and His dhāma means headquarters-Vṛndāvana. Therefore Vṛndāvana is so important. When Kṛṣṇa comes... Just like when the sun appears in your country there is a particular city or place... Where it is where the sun first seen? Where it is?



Devotee: Greenwich, Maine.



Prabhupāda: Greenwich.



Devotee: Uh huh.



Prabhupāda: In your country, America?



Devotee: What is that?



Prabhupāda: Where the sun is first seen?



Devotee: Anybody know?



Prabhupāda?: Oh, you cannot say?



Students: Maine.



*Prabhupāda: Maine? Just like Maine is the first place where is seen sun, similarly, Vṛndāvana is the place where Kṛṣṇa is seen first. The example is very nice. Sapta*-dvīpāmbudhi laṅghi' phire krame krame.



*rātri*-dine haya ṣaṣṭi-daṇḍa-parimāṇa

*tina*-sahasra chaya-śata 'pala' tāra māna



*Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is submitting His knowledge in astronomy. Astronomy. And He's dividing the whole day and night into sixty daṇḍas. According to Vedic calculation of time, the whole day and night... Just like, according to Western system, the whole day and night is divided into twenty*-four hours, they have divided into still further... Sixty daṇḍas. They are called daṇḍas. Tina-sahasra... Rātri-dine haya ṣaṣṭi-daṇḍa-parimāṇa. The whole day and night is divided into sixty parts. Tina-sahasra chaya-śata 'pala' tāra māna. And these daṇḍas are again subdivided into three hundred and sixty palas. They are called pala. Daṇḍa and pala. Sūryodaya haite ṣaṣṭi-pala-kramodaya. And the sun rises in every sixty pala. We can, we can see sun is rising, but not all of a sudden we can see. But gradually. That gradual, I mean to say, elevation of the sun planet is..., takes sixty pala times. Sei eka daṇḍa, aṣṭa daṇḍe 'prahara' haya. Prahara means three hours, and that is aṣṭa daṇḍa.



*eka*-dui-tina-cāri prahare asta haya

*cāri*-prahara rātri gele punaḥ sūryodaya



The whole day is divided into four praharas. So at the end of the day, of the four praharas, the Sūrya, this sun planet sets. Cāri prahara rātri gele... And similarly, four praharas, when passed at night, again the sun planet is seen.



*aiche kṛṣṇera līlā*-maṇḍala caudda-manvantare

*brahmāṇḍa*-maṇḍala vyāpi' krame krame phire



*Caudda-manvantare. There are fourteen Manus in one day of Brahmā. So kṛṣṇera līlā-maṇḍala caudda manvantare. So in the fourteen maṇḍalas, the, the I mean to..., the orbit of kṛṣṇa-līlā is, I mean to say, circumambulating. So He is..., He is seen in the Manu's life, in the fourteen Manu's life. There are fourteen Manus. In each Manu's life, there are seventy-one catur-yugas, in each Manu's life. In the twenty-eighth catur-yuga, Kṛṣṇa, in the Dvāpara-yuga, appears. There is mathematical calculation. Soayāśata vatsara kṛṣṇera prakaṭa-prakāśa. And when He is in this universe, He remains here for 124 year, 125 years. When Kṛṣṇa was here He was for 125 years. And when He was in the battlefield, His age was about 100 years, almost 100 years. Because, just after finishing the battlefield, He went to Dvārakā, and, after some days, He disappeared. So I think it was more than hundred years when He was fighting as charioteer of Kṛṣṇa. Just imagine, a hundred-years-old man, how many children and grandchildren, great-grandchildren, might have. In those days, the boys were married... Still in India boys are married in early age. The boys and girls were married just after sixteen years, especially in the kṣatriya families. They are very developed because they can eat very nicely, they live very nicely. So their body development is very nice. They can beget children even at fifteen years old*-in those days, especially. So Kṛṣṇa had, at that time, great-grandchildren when He was fighting in the Kurukṣetra. He was... He came just to help His friend Arjuna. He did not take part in the fighting; *He was charioteer. Now you have seen the Kṛṣṇa's picture. He looks like a twenty*-years boy. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanam [Bs. 5.33]. Nava-yauvanam-just a fresh youth. Youthful luster. He's very nice, beautiful. So He is seen like that, kiśora. Kiśora. Just sixteen-years-old boy.



*So, tāhā yaiche vraja*-pure karilā vilāsa

*saoyāśata vatsara kṛṣṇera prakaṭa*-prakāśa

*tāhā yaiche vraja*-pure karilā vilāsa



*So within these 125 years, all the pastimes that Kṛṣṇa displayed during His presence, all those things are going on in each and every universe, just like the sun planet is moving from one place to another. This is the idea of Kṛṣṇa*-līlā.



*alāta*-cakra-prāya sei līlā-cakra phire

saba līlā saba brahmāṇḍe krame udaya kare



So saba līlā. And all the activities, they are manifested in either of the so many brahmāṇḍas. So at every second you just divide that 125 years into seconds and all, less than second, what it is? Of course, I do not know... But if you divide in that way, then you can calculate how many universes are there. How many seconds are there in one hour?



Devotee: Three thousand?



Prabhupāda: Three thousand?



Devotee: Three thousand, six hundred.



*Prabhupāda: Three thousand, six hundred seconds in one hour. Then what are the twenty*-four hours? (laughs) Just see.



Devotee: A pencil and paper...



*Prabhupāda: No. No. Just imagine that 360 seconds in one hour, so in one day we have got 24 hours. So 360 into 24, that becomes the seconds in one day. Then you multiply it into 30. That means in one month. Then you multiply it by 12. Then it comes to one year. Such 125. So you can calculate. At least you can imagine who many universes are there*-by that calculation of second, and if you go further detail.



So God's creation is wonderful. Nobody can... Everything is unlimited. He's unlimited. His creation is unlimited. His pastimes are unlimited. His forms are unlimited. Everything unlimited. Everything. His incarnations are unlimited. Everything. Just like see, even in your own body, can you count how many hairs are on your body and head? They are unlimited. I am claiming "This is my body," but I do not know how many hairs are there. But you ask Kṛṣṇa, He'll tell you. Especially Howard cannot say how many hairs are there... (laugh) Who can say? Howard cannot say. So this is Kṛṣṇa's creative energy. You see. And He is aloof. All things, all these wonderful things are going on, but He's aloof. He's aloof. Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ.

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



These are inconceivable energies. And foolish rascals, they claim that "I am God." You see. God is not so cheap. One must know the science of God, how great is God. We cannot calculate. Those who cheaply take God, "God might be like me, you," just frog philosophy. The same frog philosophy. The frog is calculating the length and breadth of Atlantic Ocean, keeping itself in the well. You see. So similarly, these rascals, they are frogs in the well, and they are calculating the estimation of the length and breadth of Atlantic Ocean and claiming themselves as God.



janma, bālya, paugaṇḍa, kaiśora prakāśa

*pūtanā*-vadhādi kari' mauṣalānta vilāsa

kona brahmāṇḍe kona līlāra haya avasthāna

*tāte līlā 'nitya' kahe āgama*-purāṇa



*So Lord Caitanya says, "Just like the time calculation of the sun is always present in the orbit of this earthly planet, similarly, in the orbit of Kṛṣṇa*-līlā, everything is happening in some universe." That is called nitya-līlā. Because it is happening eternally and continually, in either of innumerable planets, which we cannot calculate, therefore His pastimes, appearance and disappearance are all eternal. We are not worshiper of a dead thing. Just like if a foolish person says at night, "Oh, sun is finished." How? "I cannot see. Because I don't see in the sky, it is finished." Similarly, the foolish person thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is..., I cannot see; therefore He's finished." This is foolish calculation. Now, from the description of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we can understand that Kṛṣṇa is not dead and gone. He's present always and every time, everywhere. And if we are sincerely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that Kṛṣṇa is always with us, He gives us protection, His mercy is there. Everything is there. With this conviction, we should continue Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a manufactured, false identification, but it is fact, and we have to follow great personalities like Lord Caitanya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who actually established the science of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇāya... As Rūpa Gosvāmī, he, he prayed Lord Caitanya:



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*"Oh, I offer my respectful obeisances unto You because You are so magnanimous that You are distributing the love of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted, when He, when He was present, that 'You love Me, surrender unto Me. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66].' Now people misunderstood. But Your process of preaching Kṛṣṇa philosophy is so nice, by the saṅkīrtana movement, that everyone can understand the Kṛṣṇa philosophy very easily. Therefore You are the most magnanimous incarnation, and I offer my respectful obeisances unto You."



Thank you very much. (end)



670102CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.391-405

-

New York, January 2, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*aiche kṛṣṇera līlā*-maṇḍala caudda-manvantare

*brahmāṇḍa*-maṇḍala vyāpi' krame krame phire



*So we have already discussed how kṛṣṇa*-līlā, or the pastimes, different manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes during one hundred and twenty-five years, beginning from His birth up to the disappearance, as many pastimes there are, they are being manifested in some of the universe, out of the innumerable universes. So God is never dead. Kṛṣṇa is never dead, as some of the modern philosophers, they are putting forward the philosophy of "God is dead." God is dead for those who are following the owl philosophy. Owl has never seen sun, or it does not like to see the sun. Therefore the owl says, "There is no sun." Similarly, the atheistic philosophy is... There are so many logic. Just like the owl philosophy, the frog philosophy, the camel philosophy and the dog philosophy, the hog philosophy-there are so many philosophies. So only the persons who are, who have got two hands and two legs, but they are counted amongst the animals. And therefore they cannot think of the eternal, blissful existence of the Supreme Lord at all times.



*So premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. If one takes to this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and develops love of Godhead, then he can see God at every moment, in every step, in every thing. He's not, for a single moment, is out of the sight of God. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, teṣu te mayi. The devotee who has love, who has developed love for God, he's also seeing God at every moment. Similarly, God is also seeing him at every moment. They are not separated. So simple process. This hari-kīrtana, this is the simple process recommended in this age, and if we sincerely do it without any offense and with faith, then seeing of God is not difficult for a devotee.

So,

kona brahmāṇḍe kona līlāra haya avasthāna

*tāte līlā 'nitya' kahe āgama*-purāṇa



*So similarly, in some of the brahmāṇḍas, or universes, there is already present Kṛṣṇa*-līlā; Kṛṣṇa is there.



There is another Bengali verse, very nicely:

*adya 'pi akāri līlā gaura*-rāya

kona kona bhagavane dekhibāre pāya



*Lord Caitanya's pastimes going on, still going on, but some of the fortunate devotees, they can see. Anything, God's pastimes, that is perceivable through devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Only way. This is the process. No other process. No amount of speculation, no amount of academic education, no amount of philosophical discussion can..., one can... It is confirmed in the Vedic literature: nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahunā śrutena. Na ayam ātmā... This self*-realization is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, simply by discussion, nobody can arrive. Nobody can understand what is self-realization, what is Supreme Soul, the Absolute Truth. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena, na medhayā. Medhayā means one who is, who has got very good brain substance, he also cannot. Simply by agitating the brain, brain substance, one cannot understand. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahunā śrutena, na medhayā. Śrutena, one who is highly educated, very good scholar, he also cannot understand. Then, what is the pro...? Janena saba puruṣe tena labhya: a person to whom God reveals Himself, he can understand. So we have to wait for that and for God's mercy. We have to be engaged in loving, transcendental service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then He'll reveal.



*goloka, gokula*-dhāma-'vibhu' kṛṣṇa-sama

*kṛṣṇecchāya brahmāṇḍa*-gaṇe tāhāra saṅkrama

[Cc. Madhya 20.396]



*Now, gokula, gokula dhāma-'vibhu' kṛṣṇa-sama. Because the Lord is absolute, therefore His name, His fame, His qualities, His form, His associates, His paraphernalia-everything absolute, nondifferent. God and God's name, nondifferent. God and God's place, nondifferent. And for that reason, when Kṛṣṇa comes, the Absolute, the Vṛndāvana, the place where He descends, that is nondifferent. Actually you can see that, that Vṛndāvana-dhāma, that place is a small spot of land, say about eighty-four miles area, but any person, and however atheistic he may be, and however nonsense he may be, if he goes to that place, he'll feel Kṛṣṇa's presence. Still. Still, simply by going there, he'll at once change his mind that "Here is God." He'll accept it. Still. If you like, you can go to India and you can see, make an experiment. So, although Vṛndāvana is a, is a place for the personalists, now all the impersonalists school of India, they're making their āśrama at Vṛndāvana because they have failed to achieve the sense of God anywhere, they are coming to Vṛndāvana. It is such a nice place. Here Lord Caitanya says that goloka, gokula-dhāma-'vibhu' kṛṣṇa-sama. Just like Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, similarly, His place is also unlimited. It is not limited by the material laws. Similarly, His name is unlimited. When you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, the Hare Kṛṣṇa, this name, the holy name, has got unlimited potency. Simply you have to realize it. Even God is present before us, we cannot realize it. When Kṛṣṇa was present before us on this earth, not that all people of the world or all people of India could recognize. Only few people*-the Pāṇḍavas and the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, inhabitants of Dvārakā, some of them could understand. So it requires training only. Otherwise, the unlimited God can be seen even within this limited sphere of material existence.



*ataeva goloka*-sthāne nitya vihāra

*brahmāṇḍa*-gaṇe krame prākaṭya tāhāra



*So when Kṛṣṇa or God comes, He's not out of His eternal abode, because absolute. Whenever, wherever God is present, His absolute abode is also present there. Just like it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "The Supreme Lord is situated as Supersoul in everyone's heart." Now suppose there is a dog or there is hog. So there is also God. So does it mean that God is living with a dog or God is living with a hog? No. For Him, even within the heart of a hog, even within the heart of a dog, there is Vaikuṇṭha. The same thing. These are the inconceivable energies of the Supreme Lord. Similarly, a God's pure devotee, wherever he may be, he lives at Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana is not limited or God is not so limited that He is under the boundary of certain limitation. No. They can... God and God's devotees, wherever they are, the same transcendental abode, God's place, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is manifested there. So in each and every brahmāṇḍa, or universe, wherever Kṛṣṇa is there, there is Goloka Vṛndāvana there. Brahmāṇḍa-gaṇe krame prākaṭya.



*vraje kṛṣṇa*-sarvaiśvarya-prakāśe 'pūrṇatama'

*purī*-dvaye, paravyome-'pūrṇatara', 'pūrṇa'



*Now God's manifestation, fullest manifestation, is at Vṛndāvana. Fullest manifestation. Full freedom. In Kṛṣṇa, when He's at Vṛndāvana, He has full freedom. Now there was a question: When rāsa*-līlā..., Kṛṣṇa performed rāsa-līlā. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he questioned. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was hearing the description of rāsa-līlā from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So he cleared out one question which is generally discussed about the character of Kṛṣṇa because He enjoyed these rāsa-līlā pastimes at dead of night, He played on His flute and all the gopīs of Vṛndāvana, they came into the forest and they had the rāsa dance. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit, or King Parīkṣit, inquired to his teacher, Śukadeva Goswami, that Kṛṣṇa is on this earth, He appeared on this earth for paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma saṁsthāpanārthāya... Dharma saṁsthāpanārthāya [Bg. 4.8], just to establish the process of religiosity. And India at least, still, the Vedic principle is that a, a lady or a girl who is especially married, or unmarried, she cannot mix with any other men. So that is against religious principles. So this question was raised that these girls who were already married, how they went to Kṛṣṇa for dancing with Him, and how Kṛṣṇa allowed them to dance with Him, because against religious principles. This question was raised by Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Of course, you cannot imagine that a girl going to a friend and dancing with him, that is not against religious principles. But according to Vedic principles, this is irreligious.



*So this was questioned by Mahārāja Parīkṣit to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī replied in many ways, but the summary is that "How this can be impure?" That is, "By chanting Kṛṣṇa's name, one becomes pure, how dancing with Kṛṣṇa can be impure?" And he gave that example, tejīyasāṁ na doṣāyet. One who is powerful, to..., for him there is no question of contamination. Just like the sun. He gave the example, the sun. Sun is so powerful that sunshine is touching all contaminated place, but sun is not contaminated. Rather, by the sunshine it is sterilized. Contaminated place becomes sterilized. As a crude example in the material world. Similarly, in God's association there is no question of irreligiosity. If there is ecstasy, intense love for God, there is no question of contamination. So contamination is considered within the material world. In the spiritual world, there is no contamination. And actually, when the gopīs went to Kṛṣṇa, they approached there in their spiritual bodies, not with material bodies. Because it is stated in the Bhāgavata that when the gopīs left their house, their husbands saw that the wife is sleeping on the same bed. So Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say, danced with the gopīs, not with their, in their material bodies, but in their spiritual bodies. These are the descriptions are there. So Kṛṣṇa is always pure, always pure, perfect. So sarvaiśvarya*-prakāśe. There is pūrṇatama, the fullest expression of God. Now this connection of Kṛṣṇa and with the gopīs, apparently it is abominable, but in the spiritual sense, it is the highest, highest perfectional stage of love of Godhead. So this world is perverted reflection. There... There is such psychological things that a married woman wants to mix with his, with her friend, or a married man wants to mix with another. Wherefrom this idea comes, this psychological...? It comes from God. In God there is. But there, it is in perfect order. Here it is contaminated. Here, it is contaminated. So we should not imitate the perfect thing in the contaminated place.

*So we have to rectify ourself. Unless we approach to the spiritual stage... That is the process. Just like a diseased man, he cannot imitate the healthy man. A healthy man eats as he likes, but a diseased man, if he eats as he likes, he'll die. Death is sure. So he has to be restricted, not the healthy man. So if you want really happiness, if you want really freedom, and if you really want everything is reality, then you have to transfer yourself to the spiritual world, in association with Kṛṣṇa. That is the whole process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And for that purpose, just like a student for getting a degree in the university, he, I mean to say, tolerates all kinds of inconveniences-"Never mind. Let me pass and go away"*-similarly, we have to make use, the best use of this bad bargain, this material body, and continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness just to achieve the highest perfection of life, freedom, love. This is the process. And if we imitate... The same example. If we, in diseased state, if we imitate a healthy man's activities, then death is sure. Death is sure. Nobody can say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa enjoyed with so many girls. Oh, let me enjoy also." You cannot, because you are in diseased condition. If you do that, then you continue your diseased life and you'll die.

*So for us, so long we are conditioned by this material nature, we have to live under regulation, under restriction, and as soon as we are free from this material entanglement, when we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully, even in perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness here you'll have that transcendental nature. Just like several times I have cited one śloka from Yamunācārya. Yamunācārya was a great king. Later on, he became a great devotee. He has written his life's experience in one verse. Yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor: "So long my mind and attention is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness," tadavadhi, "since then," tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame, "sex life, as soon as I remember about that, it becomes very nasty thing for me." This is the experience. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also... Sex life is there in Kṛṣṇa, not exactly like this, but there is a, I mean to say, unification of embracing, kissing, everything is there, but there is no pregnancy, there is no abortion. That is the perfection. So that we cannot do here. Therefore we have to avoid. Yes. We have to avoid. The perfection... Kṛṣṇa mixed with so many girls, but there was not a single case. And Bhīṣmadeva certified that "If I had been among such beautiful young girls..." Because Bhīṣma was famous as brahmacārī. "So I think I could not protect myself, but Kṛṣṇa is so nice that He, He was always..." Kṛṣṇa is all-perfect. It is because the girls wanted Kṛṣṇa as their husband; therefore Kṛṣṇa accepted them. Kṛṣṇa did not, I mean to say, need the assistance of any other person or girl or boy or anything for His... He's fully satisfied. He's God. He's full perfect.

*So His pastimes are manifest in different way, and in Vṛndāvana His fullness is exhibited. That is described here by Lord Caitanya. Vraje kṛṣṇa*-sarvaiśvarya-pūrṇe prakāśa. There is no restrictions. He is fully manifested there. Purī-dvaye, paravyome-'pūrṇatara', 'pūrṇa'. Purī-dvaye means Mathurā purī and Dvārakā pura. Mathurā purī... As there... As in this universe there is Mathurā purī and Dvārakā purī, similarly, in the transcendental abode of Kṛṣṇa, there is Mathurā purī, Dvārakā purī. They are represented here. So India there is Mathurā purī and Dvārakā purī. They are... In Mathurā purī and Dvārakā purī, in these two places, Kṛṣṇa's fullness is not manifested. But His fullness is manifested at Vṛndāvana.

*ei kṛṣṇa*-vraje 'pūrṇatama' bhagavān

āra saba svarūpa-'pūrṇatara' 'pūrṇa' nāma



This subject matter is very confidential, but still, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is describing to Sanātana Gosvāmī, and we are trying to take advantage of this. But a little advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is little difficult for others, how Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, manifests Himself fully and manifests Himself less than full. These consideration are there. But let us try to understand as far as possible.



*saṅkṣepe kahiluṅ kṛṣṇera svarūpa*-vicāra

'ananta' kahite nāre ihāra vistāra



Now Lord Caitanya is summarizing about Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, līlā, pastimes. Saṅkṣepe. They are all, whatever, which I have already spoken to you, that is only summary of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Otherwise, ananta kahite nāre ihāra vistāra. Ananta... The Śeṣa incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He's called Ananta. Ananta means unlimited. So it is said that Ananta is describing about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes for unlimited years and eternally; still it is not yet finished.



ananta svarūpa kṛṣṇera nāhika gaṇana

*śākhā*-candra-nyāye kari dig-daraśana



*So far the forms of Kṛṣṇa are concerned, they're also unlimited. Śākhā*-candra-nyāye kari dig-daraśana. So śākhā-candra-nyāye. There is a logic, śākhā-candra logic. What is that? That the sun, uh, moon, at night, is far, far away, but one is pointing out that we can see the moon through the branches of the tree. So there is a location. So through that location one can see the moon. Similarly, although kṛṣṇa-līlā and Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's forms, no human being can describe, still, as far as possible, Lord Caitanya says, this śākhā-candra logic: just like the branch of a tree is far away from the moon, still, one can see it by perspective view through the branches of the tree.



ihā yei śune, paḍe, sei bhāgyavān

*kṛṣṇera svarūpa*-tattvera haya kichu jñāna



*Now here is Lord Caitanya's order. Whether we do understand or not understand, if we simply submissively give aural reception to these messages of Kṛṣṇa, then gradually we shall understand the whole philosophy and science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the summary. You may not understand at the present moment about the extensive constitutional position and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa. Still, if we submissively give aural reception to these messages, as it is described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta by Lord Caitanya, that will help us-Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. This hearing process is very nice. That is recommended by Lord Caitanya. Simply by hearing. We do not require to be very highly educated or very good scholar in Vedānta philosophy. Whatever you are, you remain in your place. That doesn't matter. Simply try to hear, and by hearing everything will be... Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Because the process is that we cannot understand God or we cannot see God unless He reveals. So this revelation will come if we submissively hear. We may not understand, but simply by hearing, we can achieve that stage of life.



Thank you very much. (end)



760817CC.HYD

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.395

-

Hyderabad, August 17, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhāgavate vāsudevāya, oṁ namo bhāgavate vāsudevāya, om namo bhāgavate vāsudevāya. This is from Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, Chapter Twenty.



kona brahmāṇḍe kona līlāra haya avasthāna

*tāte līlā 'nitya' kahe āgama*-purāṇa



*Āgama*-purāṇa means Vedic literature. Āgama, "which is coming from higher plane," not manufactured here. Āgama-purāṇa. And Purāṇa means the old history of the world, Purāṇa. Purāṇa, some of the modern scholars, they take everything as mythology, imagination. That is not fact. They're real history. Purāṇa. Purāṇa means very old. Nityaḥ śāśvato yaṁ purāṇo [Bg. 2.20]. In Hindi it is called Purāṇa. Purāṇa means old. The Purāṇas means the old history, not only of this world, but of the whole universe. Purāṇa is also Vedic evidence. Purāṇa is not ordinary thing. Therefore here it is said, āgama-purāṇa. Vedic literatures. Śrīla Madhvācārya has accepted the Vedic literatures-four Vedas, Vedānta-sūtra, Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata. They're all Vedic literature. So here it is said, kono brahmāṇḍe. (aside:) Come here. This room is very nice. Yes. Although it is not very big, but very comfortable. Dakṣina, dakṣina-rāja.



So,

kona brahmāṇḍe kona līlāra haya avasthāna

*tāte līlā 'nitya' kahe āgama*-purāṇa



*Nitya*-līlā. Nitya-līlā means everlasting pastimes. Our līlā, material, that is not nitya-līlā. Whatever I'm acting by this body, it is not nitya; *it is temporary. I am the son of such and such family, I am such and such important person, my name is such and such, my position is such and such*-these are not nitya. This is temporary. As soon as the body is finished, everything is finished. Then another līlā: I am such and such dog, I am such and such this and that. With the change of body, our līlā is finished. Therefore ours is not nitya-līlā. But Kṛṣṇa's, Bhagavān's activities, they are nitya-līlā. That is the difference. Nitya means eternal. Kṛṣṇa's Vṛndāvana līlā is going on. It is nitya-līlā. Just like what is the time now? Quarter to eight. This quarter to eight is a crude example of the sun. It is going on. It is not that quarter to eight here, but when it will be eight, in some other place it is quarter to eight. Somewhere the sun is rising and setting within this regulation. Now suppose in Hyderabad it is quarter to eight and say it is in the eastern side.



Mahāṁsa: Central India.



*Prabhupāda: Central India. So the sun will pass. It will be eight. But the sun will go somewhere where it is quarter to eight. Is it not? Somewhere the sun will pass and it is quarter to eight. That quarter to eight is also permanent. Somewhere there will be, must be quarter to eight. This is crude example. This example is given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to explain what is the meaning of nitya*-līlā.



*So this is material example. And material, everything is temporary. Still we find some similarity of nitya*-līlā. And what to speak of spiritual. Spiritual, it is clearly said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So kono brahmāṇḍe kona līlāra haya avasthāna. Just like we are opening the temple. This is also nitya-līlā. In some brahmāṇḍa there is this opening ceremony of temple. When tomorrow we shall open, day after tomorrow it is opened. But day after tomorrow in some brahmāṇḍa it is being opened. This is nitya-līlā. Some other brahmāṇḍa, again it is finished; *in another brahmāṇḍa it is being opened. In another brahmāṇḍa it is being opened. There is no end. This is called nitya*-līlā. In some brahmāṇḍa Kṛṣṇa is born, Janmāṣṭamī. It is finished here. In other brahmāṇḍa, again Janmāṣṭamī. Every moment. This is pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. Kona brahmāṇḍe kona līlāra haya avasthāna. There must be some... The same example: quarter to eight is somewhere. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's līlā, it is eternal. Somewhere it is going on. And you have no experience of one brahmāṇḍa, what to speak of innumerable brahmāṇḍas.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu was requested by one of His devotees that "Sir, You have so kindly come. Please liberate all the living entities of this brahmāṇḍa, and You take them with You to Vaikuṇṭha. And if You think that they're so sinful they cannot be taken away, then please give all their sinful actions to me. I shall suffer. You take them." This is (not) Vaiṣṇava's philosophy, that "You suffer. I'll go to Vaikuṇṭha." That is not Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that "I take your all sinful activities. Let me suffer here. You go to Vaikuṇṭha." This is Vaiṣṇava. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, "Suppose I take all the living entities to Vaikuṇṭha. Do you think that the māyā's business will be stopped? No. This brahmāṇḍa is one of the mustard seeds in the bag of mustard seeds." In the bag of mustard seeds, can anybody count how many mustard seeds are there? So here it is called kona brahmāṇḍa. This is one of the brahmāṇḍa, universe. And there are so many universes that is just like this one seed of mustard. One grain of mustard seed, and there is a bag of mustard seeds. That is kona brahmāṇḍe. So in each brahmāṇḍa Kṛṣṇa's līlā is going on. Now you count. This is Kṛṣṇa. They become very cheaply God, Kṛṣṇa, but they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they take it so cheaply, that "Anyone can become God. Anyone can become Kṛṣṇa." Mūḍha. Māyayā*-apahṛta-jñānāḥ. These rascals they say like that. But they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti mām...

[Bg. 7.3]



*They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. And they're coming out... Just like within our breathing there are so many things, particles, or germs are coming, similarly, with the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu, so many universes are coming. This is Bhagavān. By breathing period innumerable universes are created. Not that they create something jugglery and become Bhagavān. Our conception of Bhagavān from the śāstra is different.



*So Kṛṣṇa's creation of this brahmāṇḍa and His pastimes, they are going on, nitya*-līlā. Kona kona bhagavān ei dekhi bare paya. The līlā is going on constantly, but one who is fortunate enough, he can see how līlā is... Kona brahmāṇḍe kona līlā haya avasthāna, tāte līlā 'nitya' kahe āgama-purāṇa. It is not that Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Goswami is manufacturing some idea. No. He says, kahe āgama-purāṇa. "I do not manufacture anything." That is not ācārya. Ācārya does not manufacture anything concocted. He quotes from the Vedic literature. Āgama-purāṇa. That is the qualification. So,

*goloka, gokula*-dhāma-'vibhu' kṛṣṇa-sama

*kṛṣṇecchāya brahmāṇḍa*-gaṇe tāhāra saṅkrama

[Cc. Madhya 20.396]



*So Kṛṣṇa*-līlā is going on in the spiritual world, but by Kṛṣṇa's desire that spiritual world also comes down in this material world. Just like a big man, he lives in his palace, but if he likes he can go anywhere, and he has the same facility of his palace by arrangement. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes within this material world, He has all the paraphernalia of his Goloka Vṛndāvana līlā. As such this Vṛndāvana is as good as the original Vṛndāvana. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa, tanaya tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. This Vṛndāvana is not ordinary place; *it is the same Goloka Vṛndāvana. By Kṛṣṇa's omnipotency the same Vṛndāvana is duplicated. It is possible. That is called nitya-līlā. Wherever He likes, He can bring in Vṛndāvana and He can have His pastimes. So this temple, do not think that it is Hyderabad place. No. It is Goloka Vṛndāvana. You should be very careful. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa, tanaya tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. As Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, similarly His place is also worshipable. Not that His place is different from Him. No. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-sṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. As the worship of the Deity is important, similarly, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-sṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārj anādau **. To keep the temple very cleansed, very attractive, that is also Deity worship. Those who are here working, they should keep this temple as clean as possible. Then Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Kṛṣṇa's body*-this temple. Do not think it otherwise. Temple should be worshiped in that way. Therefore I ask you not to come with shoes. Even the temple is not opened, it is still Kṛṣṇa's temple. It is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-sṛṅgāra **. You should always remember that. The temple management very nicely means to render service to Kṛṣṇa.



*So we are going to open this temple. Those who are in charge, they must take care of the temple. Cleanliness. Tan*-mandira-mārjanādau. The more we have got men, engage them. And do not think that temple cleaning and Deity worshiping are different. Do not be envious, that "This person has been given the in charge of decorating the Deity, and I have (been) given to wash the temple where there are not Deity." No. It is the same thing. There is no difference. It is spiritual. In spiritual... Just like either you worship Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet or you offer a garland to Kṛṣṇa on His head, it is the same thing. It is no such thing as "This is head, this is tail." No. This is absolute conception of... So Bhagavān, His līlā, His form, His pastimes, His place, they're all Bhagavān. Even higher, those who are highly elevated devotees, they do not see even this material world different from Bhagavān. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetara. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Nārada Muni says. The whole universe is Bhagavān, although it appears different from Him. Bhagavān ivetara. So actually everything is Bhagavān, but it is not this Māyāvāda philosophy, that because everything is Bhagavān, there is no Bhagavān. No. Everything is Bhagavān, and still Bhagavān is there. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. Māyā, a person is there. Otherwise, there is no use of the word māyā. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that this material world is expansion of the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And the Māyāvāda philosophy is that because God has become everything, there is no more God. Nirviśeṣa. That is called nirviśeṣa-without understanding the beauty.

*In this way, try to understand Kṛṣṇa and His paraphernalia, His form, His name, His quality, everything. There are so many things to understand about Kṛṣṇa. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The materialistic persons, they will think that "These people are wasting time. They are doing nothing." But the agnostic, the material person, he does not know anything. Because here is the study of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is so unlimited, what one life one can understand? It requires many lives. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 7.19]. It is not so easy thing that we have understood immediately Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, after many, many births if one is fortunate, he can understand Kṛṣṇa. So don't lose a single moment. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa, āgama*-purāṇa, from śāstra. Don't manufacture. Here it is said, tāte līlā 'nitya' kahe āgama-purāṇa, from śāstra. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi pañcaratriki vidhiṁ vinā [Brs. 1.2.101], you have to understand Kṛṣṇa from the śāstra. Śruti means veda, smṛti means the history, the corollaries, just like Bhagavad-gītā, Rāmayana, Mahābharata. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi, without reference to the Vedic literature, the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa is simply disturbance. So you should always refer to the śāstras. The śāstras are there by Kṛṣṇa's grace. It is now available in the English language. Be always engaged in studying, in rendering service, understanding the philosophy, then life will be successful. Thank you very much. (end)





670103CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 21.1-10

-

New York, January 3, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*agaty*-eka-gatiṁ natvā

*hīnārthādhika*-sādhakam

*śrī*-caitanyaṁ likhāmy asya

mādhuryaiśvarya-śīkaram



*Agaty*-eka-gatiṁ natvā. So the author of this Caitanya-caritāmṛta is offering his respectful obeisances unto Lord Caitanya. So he says, agaty-eka-gatiṁ natvā. Agaty, persons who have fallen, who have no hope for reaching the supreme destination, for them Lord Caitanya is the only hope. In this age, it is stated in authoritative scriptures, in this age the people are unfortunate. Of course, they are very much proud of advancing. From spiritual point of view, the people of this age, Kali-yuga, they are unfortunate. Their description is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Chapter, First Canto, that people are short-living, their duration of life is very short, and they are very slow in the matter of spiritual realization. The human form of life is especially meant for spiritual realization, but they have forgotten that aim of life. They are very much serious about maintaining about the necessities of this body, which he's not. And if somebody's interested to have some taste of spiritual realization, they are misdirected.



prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ (sabhya)

kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ

*mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo

*manda*-bhāgyā...

[SB 1.1.10]



And they are unfortunate; upadrutāḥ, and always disturbed by so many things.



*So this is the position of the present*-day population, and the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says that Lord Caitanya is the only hope for these people. Why? Because spiritual realization is not an ordinary subject matter. But He has given us the shortcut. He's so kind to the people of the world that simply He has introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. By simple chanting of this transcendental vibration the people of this age will make exact progress in the matter of spiritual realization. Therefore this reference is there, agaty-eka-gatim. Those who are hopeless about their spiritual realization, Lord Caitanya is the only one hope. So hīnārthādhika-sādhakam śrī-caitanyaṁ likhāmy asya. So "I am just offering my respect to Lord Śrī Caitanya. I am trying to describe about His transcendental activities and instructions and philosophy."

Now,

*jaya jaya śrī*-caitanya jaya nityānanda

*jayādvaita*-candra jaya gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



*This is the process of offering respect to Lord Caitanya. What is that? Lord Caitanya is always presented with five transcendental entourage. He is Himself present, and His next expansion, Nityānanda, and His incarnation, Advaita, and His internal potency, Gadādhara, and His marginal potency, Śrī Śrīvāsa... So pañca*-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇam. He is Kṛṣṇa, but He is present in this age with His five associates. Pañca-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ bhakta-rūpa-svarūpakam. But although He is Kṛṣṇa, He presents Himself as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Bhakta-rūpa-svarūpakam. Bhaktāvatāram bhaktākhyam. And incarnation of devotee, Advaita, and bhaktākhyam. These five associates are always with Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. So to offer Kṛṣṇa Caitanya means to offer with His associates. Sa-ghoṣṭi. This is the process.



*Now Kṛṣṇa's..., about the position of Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, he has already described. The first proposition is sambandha. Sambandha means we have to understand our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Just like if we want to make some relationship with a friend, then we must know about him, what he is. So we are going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, so we must know what is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa he has described shortly, that He is personally like this, His incarnations are like this, and there are so many incarnations, and He is existing in this way, He manifests Himself in this material world in this way. As far as possible he has given description about Kṛṣṇa. Now, about Kṛṣṇa's abode... Kṛṣṇa means not only Kṛṣṇa. Nāma dhāma guṇa līlā parikara vaisiṣṭha. Kṛṣṇa means Kṛṣṇa Himself, His name, His place, nāma dhāma, His quality, then His entourage, then His pastime. All these things Kṛṣṇa means. Because we are not impersonalists, simply understanding Brahman we are satisfied... The impersonalists are satisfied simply understanding that He is Brahman. But the Vaiṣṇava, they are not satisfied simply by knowing Brahman. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ means he's already Brahman, but he forgot himself. He thought himself that "I am matter." That is illusion. So every living entity, by constitutional position he is Brahman, but his forgetfulness*-he thinks that "I am something of this matter." So brahma-bhūtaḥ, when one becomes spiritually realized that he is not anything of this material world, he is spirit soul, brahma-bhūtaḥ, this is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. So long he does not understand that he is spiritual entity, he is jīva-bhūtaḥ. That is called jīva-bhūtaḥ. And when he understands that he is nothing of this material world, he belongs to the spiritual world and his position is spiritual identity, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. That is described in Bhagavad-gītā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Prasannātmā means he becomes immediately enlivened: "I don't belong to this. Why I am identifying myself with these all miseries of material world? I belong to the part and parcel of the Supreme, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], eternal, blissful knowledge." So he becomes prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means joyful, spiritually enlivened.

*So this is the first stage of Brahman realization. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that this Brahman realization, people take so much, I mean to say, undertaking of austerity, penance and... But by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, He says, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. At once one becomes cleansed of the dust accumulated on the mind. Because everything is misconception. I am thinking matter. Actually I am not. This is misconception. So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, the first installment of benefit is that one becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ. He at once becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ. And prasannātmā. Prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Next stage is prasannātmā. Ātmā. He becomes engladdened: "Oh, I am not this matter." Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same thing He says: ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. This bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... This world is compared with forest fire. It is going on. The fire is going on. So for a realized soul, the fire is at once extinguished. One who is realized soul, that he's not this matter, the fire of this material existence at once extinguished. So Lord Caitanya gave us this opportunity, and the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he's saying that agaty-eka-gatim. Those who have fallen, for them Lord Caitanya is the only hope.

*sarva svarūpera dhāma*-paravyoma-dhāme

pṛthak pṛthak vaikuṇṭha saba nāhika gaṇane



*Now Lord Caitanya describes about the kingdom of God, or the spiritual sky. He says... He has already explained to you about different kinds of expansions: prābhava, vaibhava, vilāsa, prakāśa. You may remember it. So there are innumerable expansions. Eko bahu śyāma: "The one Supreme Lord has become so many." The same example: the original candle, and from that candle, you can expand millions and millions candles. Similarly, the original Personality of Godhead is Śrī Kṛṣṇa, and He has expanded in so many ways. Now, Lord Caitanya says, all the expanded plenary manifestation of Kṛṣṇa has got a separate abode. Each and every one of them has got a separate abode. Sarva rūpera dhāma-paravyoma-dhāme. And where they are? That is in the paravyoma. Paravyoma means... Vyoma means sky, and para means transcendental, beyond this sky. This sky is called material sky, and beyond this there is paravyoma, spiritual sky. They have no information. The material scientists, they have no information. What information they have got? They cannot reach even the moon planet, what to speak of others. It is far, far away. Whatever... We can see the sky just like a pot, and that is the covering of this universe. And if you can penetrate that covering*-that space is also many, many times longer than this outer space-then you'll find the spiritual sky. That is not possible for any material scientist to find out where the spiritual sky is. But you can understand from authoritative scriptures and from authorities like Lord Caitanya. He says that for each of the expansions of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, there is a separate, I mean to say, planet into the, in the, I mean to say, spiritual sky. Pṛthak pṛthak vaikuṇṭha nāhika gaṇane. Pṛthak pṛthak. Each of them has got a separate Vaikuṇṭha planet, but how many planets are there nobody can count. Nāhika tara gaṇane.



So some estimate? The Lord says,

*śata, sahasra, ayuta, lakṣa, koṭī*-yojana

eka eka vaikuṇṭhera vistāra varṇana



There is no question of voidness or impersonalist. He says that all those Vaikuṇṭha planets are so big that some of them, hundreds, some, millions and millions of miles, I mean to say, area. What is called? Round. Eka vaikuṇṭhera vistāra varṇana. Vistāra means very much expanded.



*saba vaikuṇṭha*-vyāpaka, ānanda-cinmaya

*pāriṣada-ṣaḍaiśvarya*-pūrṇa saba haya



*And each and every Vaikuṇṭha planet, there are living entities, not that they are vacant. But all of them are ānanda. They are all made of sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], eternity and bliss and full of knowledge. The land is also eternal, blissful and full of knowledge; the inhabitants are also eternal, blissful and full of knowledge; and the presiding Deity expansion of Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, He is also eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. This is called absolute. Here in the material world we have got difference. I am spirit soul, but there is difference between me and my body; *there is difference between me and this material world. But there, everything is spiritual. Therefore there is no difference. The impersonalists, they cannot understand. Because everything is spiritual, they think that there is no variegatedness. But from this description of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta and other scriptures like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, we can understand that the spiritual sky is exactly like this, but that is spiritual and this is material.



ananta vaikuṇṭha eka eka deśe yāra

*sei paravyoma*-dhāmera ke karu vistāra



Now, so far the spiritual sky is concerned, there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and nobody can measure how great those Vaikuṇṭha planets are. Therefore how great that space of spiritual sky is, nobody can calculate.



*ananta vaikuṇṭha*-paravyoma yāra dala-śreṇī

sarvopari kṛṣṇaloka 'karṇikāra' gaṇi



Now, all these planets... Just like in a stem there are so many branches and flowers, take it for granted it is something like that. And the topmost flower... Just like if you take a rose flower, there are so many leaves, and on the topmost there is the nice flower, so the topmost planet in the spiritual sky, that is called Kṛṣṇaloka. Karṇikāra. That is just like... The shape of the Kṛṣṇaloka is just like a lotus flower.



*ei*-mata ṣaḍ-aiśvarya, sthāna, avatāra

*brahmā, śiva anta nā pāya*-jīva kon chāra



*The Lord says, "So what these ordinary living entities with teeny brain, they can calculate about Lord's opulence?" These are opulences of the Supreme Lord. He says, brahmā śiva. Brahmā. Brahmā is considered to be the highest of the living entities, and Śiva, Lord Śiva, he is also considered very high*-grade demigod. So Lord Caitanya says that even Brahmā and Śiva cannot calculate, and what to speak of these ordinary human beings. They cannot understand it. It is not possible. Ei-mata ṣaḍ-aiśvarya. Nobody can calculate the six opulences of Kṛṣṇa. We have discussed the six opulences: wealth, riches and strength and fame and knowledge and beauty and renunciation. Nobody can calculate.



*So he's giving a quotation from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam,

ko vetti bhūman bhagavan parātman

yogeśvarotīr bhavatas trilokyām

kva vā kathaṁ vā kati vā kadeti

*vistārayan krīḍasi yoga*-māyām



*He, bhūman: "O the great, O the Supreme Personality of Godhead, O the Supersoul, O the master of mysticism, how You are acting tri*-bhuvane, tri-bhuvane, within the three worlds?" Three world means that in the materially there is lower planet and middle planets and upper planets, these three worlds. So "How You are acting within these three worlds, and how You are utilizing Your internal potency, yogamāyā, extending Yourself in so many expansions, plenary expansions? Who can understand You? Nobody can understand You." You may say if nobody can understand, what is the use of discussing such things? That is the qualification of the devotees. In spite of their inability to understand His supremacy, the expansion, the extension of the Supreme Lord, still, by discussing about the Supreme Lord, hearing and chanting, they take transcendental pleasure. It is not that anybody can understand Kṛṣṇa, but still, it is a transcendental pleasure to try to understand. Not that we shall be able to understand Kṛṣṇa fully; it is not in our power. But still, bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. Mahātmā, those who are great souls, in their society, in their spiritual society of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by discussing about Kṛṣṇa in terms of the Vedic literature and authoritative literature, they enjoy transcendentally. This is transcendental pleasure. (end)





670104CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 21.13-49

-

New York, January 4, 1967



Prabhupāda: ...Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



nāntaṁ vidāmy aham amī munayo agrajās te

*māyā*-balasya puruṣasya kuto 'varā ye

*gāyan guṇān daśa-śatānana ādi*-devaḥ

śeṣo 'dhunāpi samavasyati nāsya pāram



*This is a verse from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. This was recited by Brahmā. The purpose of this verse is... Brahmā says that "Although I am Brahmā, and before me all the great sages, everyone, has tried to know the Supreme Lord in complete, but nobody could understand where is the end of the unlimited potencies of the Supreme Lord."



*seho rahu*-sarvajña-śiromaṇi śrī-kṛṣṇa

*nija*-guṇera anta nā pāñā hayena satṛṣṇa



Even Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, He does not know how unlimited is His potency. Lord Caitanya says that. He also does not know.



*seha rahu*-vraje yabe kṛṣṇa avatāra

tāṅra caritra vicārite mana nā pāya pāra



*prākṛtāprākṛta sṛṣṭi kaila eka*-kṣaṇe

*aśeṣa*-vaikuṇṭhājāṇḍa svasvanātha-sane



In this way, the Supreme Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, by His plenary expansions, He is doing unlimited activities, transcendental.



*So for a living entity, a small living entity like us, we cannot know. The only thing is that, as stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca [Bg. 9.14]. The subject matter is so nice that the devotees who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the transcendental loving service, they like. And in the association of pure devotees these topics become palatable. There are many instances in the Bhāgavata also. When Śaunakādi Ṛṣi, sages headed by Śaunaka Muni, was hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Sūta Gosvāmī, they also uttered this, vayaṁ tu na vitṛpyāma. "You are reciting about the glories of the Supreme Lord, His activities, so please continue. We are not yet satisfied. The subject matter is so nice that we want to more and more..." Svādu svādu pade pade. As you go on hearing and as you become purified... There is a very practical example: the sugar candy. Sugar candy is, by nature it is very sweet. But if you give it to a patient who is jaundiced, if you give, he will taste it, that he'll say that it is bitter. It is bitter. You will have practical exam... If you ask him what is the taste, he'll say bitter. Everyone knows that sugar candy is very sweet, but if you give to a patient suffering from jaundice, he'll say it is bitter. Similarly, the kṛṣṇa-kathā, the Lord's name, fame, quality, entourage, all these things are very sweet. To whom? Those who are liberated from this jaundice of materialism. For them it is very sweet. So as you feel sweetness of this Kṛṣṇa-kathā, you should know that you are becoming liberated from this material entanglement. The same thing: sugar candy is the only medicine for jaundice. Those who are suffering from jaundice, they are prescribed by physician to take sugar candy water in the morning. And by drinking that sugar candy water, gradually he feels the sweetness of sugar candy. That is the test that he is getting free from the disease. So similarly, Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or anything where the topics of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is discussed, if you feel it is interesting, that means you are getting out of the jaundice of this material disease. Yes. This is the test. If you don't feel interested, then you must know that the jaundice of material disease is there. So this is the test. The more you feel kṛṣṇa-kathā, the topics of Kṛṣṇa, tasteful, the more you'll know that you are getting free from the jaundice of material disease.

*e*-mata anyatra nāhi śuniye adbhuta

yāhāra śravaṇe citta haya avadhūta



*'kṛṣṇa*-vatsair asaṅkhyātaiḥ'-śukadeva-vāṇī

*kṛṣṇa*-saṅge kata gopa-saṅkhyā nāhi jāni



*Gopa. Kṛṣṇa, you know, in His abode, He is just like a sixteen*-years-old boy, and His main pastime is to take the cows in the pasturing ground with His friends, boyfriends, and play with them. This is Kṛṣṇa's day's business. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has written a very nice verse, that these boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, in their past lives they had accumulated heaps of pious activities. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. Sākaṁ vijahruḥ. Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. Now, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is writing. These boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, they are playing with whom? They are playing with the Supreme Absolute Truth, who is considered as impersonal by the great sages. Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma... Brahma-sukha. Brahma, transcendental Brahman realization. The reservoir of Brahman realization is here, Kṛṣṇa. So these boys who are playing with this Kṛṣṇa, He is the reservoir of that Brahman realization. Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena. Dāsyaṁ gatānām, those who have accepted the Supreme Lord as master, that means devotees, for them this Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. For the impersonalists He is Supreme Brahman, and for the personalists He is Supreme Lord. And māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa. And those who are under the spell of materialism, for them He is ordinary boy. Māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. With Him these boys, who had accumulated millions and millions births of pious activities, now they have got the opportunity of playing with Kṛṣṇa face to face just like ordinary boys play. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is very much fond of playing with His young boyfriends. That is mentioned in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Surabhīr abhipālayantam, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. So these things are explained here also.



eka eka gopa kare ye vatsa cāraṇa

koṭi, arbuda, śaṇkha, padma, tāhāra gaṇana



Now there are so many friends, cowherd boys, nobody can count. Nobody... Unlimited, everything unlimited. They have unlimited number of cows, unlimited number of boyfriends, everything unlimited.



vetra, veṇu dala, śṛṅga, vastra, alaṅkāra,

*gopa*-gaṇera yata, tāra nāhi lekhā-pāra



*Now these cowherds boys, they have got a cane in the hand, vetra. And each of them has got a flute also. Vetra veṇu dala. And a lotus flower, and a śṛṅgara, a horn. Śṛṅgara vastra, and very nicely dressed. And full of ornaments. Just like Kṛṣṇa is dressed, similarly, His friends, cowherd boys, they are also dressed. In the spiritual world, when you go, you'll not be able to understand who is Kṛṣṇa and who is not Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is like Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets everyone is like Viṣṇu. That is called sayujya*-mukti. The living entities, when they enter into the spiritual planets, they become as good as Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu-there is no difference-because it is absolute world. Here the difference is there. The impersonalists, they cannot understand that even in individuality there is no difference. As soon as they think of individuality, oh, they think that there is a difference. Then what is liberation? Yes. And actually there is no difference. The difference is only that Kṛṣṇa's personality and others' personalities, they are conscious that "Kṛṣṇa is our object of love." That's it. The center is Kṛṣṇa. In this way the individual boys and girls and Kṛṣṇa, everyone is enjoying spiritual bliss.



sabe hailā caturbhuja vaikuṇṭhera pati

pṛthak pṛthak brahmāṇḍera brahmā kare stuti



*eka kṛṣṇa*-deha haite sabāra prakāśe

kṣaṇeke sabāi sei śarīre praveśe



*Now, these, all these cowherd boys and everything, cows and everything, they are all expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy. It is spiritual. Just like we are expansion of Kṛṣṇa's marginal energy and the matter is also expansion of Kṛṣṇa's inferior material energy, similarly, in the spiritual world all those things-Kṛṣṇa, the cowherd boys, the cows, and everything*-they are also expansion of His spiritual energy.



*eka kṛṣṇa*-deha haite sabāra prakāśe

kṣaṇeke sabāi sei śarīre praveśe



ihā dekhi' brahmā hailā mohita, vismita

stuti kari' ei pāche karilā niścita



*Brahmā, he was bewildered. When Kṛṣṇa came on this planet, Brahmā... Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Brahmā was astonished and Indra was astonished: "How is that my Lord Kṛṣṇa has come at Vṛndāvana as a cowherd boy?" So they came to Vṛndāvana to test. So all... So Brahmā, by his... He has got so much power. He had kidnapped all the cows and the boys of Kṛṣṇa. And when he came back he saw Kṛṣṇa is playing with the same cows and boys again. Then he could understand that "This boy is Kṛṣṇa." Then he offered his prayer and begged pardon from Him that "I misunderstood." In this way there are many narrations in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Here Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is referring to that incident.



ihā dekhi' brahmā hailā mohita, vismita

stuti kari' ei pāche karilā niścita



So he was astonished, and then, after prayer, he was satisfied.



ye kahe-'kṛṣṇera vaibhava muñi saba jānon'

*se jānuka*-kāya-mane muñi ei mānoṅ



So Brahmā admitted that "If anybody says that 'I know Kṛṣṇa. I know the Supreme Personality of Godhead in detail,' so maybe he may know, but so far I am concerned, I do not know." The purport is that Brahmā is the first creature in this universe. He is the first living entity. He accepts his inability to understand about Kṛṣṇa, and what to speak of others? What to speak of the commentator who says that "This is not Kṛṣṇa; this is something else."



*ei ye tomāra ananta vaibhavāmṛta*-sindhu

*mora vāṅ*-mano-gamya nahe eka bindu



Brahmā admitted that "Your activities, Your pastimes, everything of You, it is not possible even to taste or to understand even a particle of it." The very verse recited here,



jānanta eva jānantu

kiṁ bahūktyā na me prabho

manaso vapuṣo vāco

vaibhavaṁ tava gocaraḥ



Nobody can understand how great is Kṛṣṇa.



*kṛṣṇera mahimā rahu*-kebā tāra jñātā

*vṛndāvana*-sthānera dekha āścarya vibhutā



*That is described, the glories of Kṛṣṇa*-nobody can understand. Similarly, vṛndāvana-sthānera āścarya vibhutā. Similarly, the land which is known as Vṛndāvana, it has also got unlimited potency. Still, as I have several times mentioned, if you go to Vṛndāvana you'll find unlimited potency of spiritual atmosphere still. And therefore Lord Caitanya recommended that ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ tad dhāma vṛndāvanam: "As Lord Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, similarly His place, Vṛndāvana, is as good as Kṛṣṇa. It is also worshipable." And actually, still in India, if you go to Vṛndāvana, you'll see so many saints and sages are still there. They are worshiping Vṛndāvana-dhāma.



*apāra aiśvarya kṛṣṇera*-nāhika gaṇana

*śākhā*-candra-nyāye kari dig-daraśana



*aiśvarya kahite sphurila aiśvarya*-sāgara

*manendriya ḍubilā, prabhu ha*-ilā phāṅpara



bhāgavatera ei śloka paḍilā āpane

artha āsvādite sukhe karena vyākhyāne



Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's attitude was... When He was speaking of Kṛṣṇa He sometimes became in trance, and He became sometimes unconscious. That was His... Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is that He is Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is trying to understand Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa's devotee. That is His feature. These are very complicated things, but that is the position of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So when He used to speak something of Kṛṣṇa, He sometimes became unconscious.



*brahmā viṣṇu hara*-ei sṛṣṭyādi-īśvara

*tine ājñākārī kṛṣṇera kṛṣṇa*-adhīśvara



So... So far the demigods are concerned, Brahmā is the chief. Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara, they are ājñākārī. They are under the order of Kṛṣṇa: Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara.



e sāmānya tryadhīśvarera śuna artha āra

*jagat*-kāraṇa tina puruṣāvatāra



*Then there are three puruṣa*-avatāras, we have already discussed. Jagat... For material creation there are three puruṣa incarnations.



*mahā*-viṣṇu, padmanābha, kṣīrodaka-svāmī

*ei tina*-sthūla-sūkṣma-sarva-antaryāmī



*And those three incarnations are called Mahā*-Viṣṇu, Padmanābha, Padmanābha Viṣṇu. Padmanābha means from His navel there is a stem of lotus flower, and Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu... Ei tina-sthūla-sūkṣma-sarva-antaryāmī.



*ei tina*-sarvāśraya jagat-īśvara

*eho saba kalā*-aṁśa kṛṣṇa-adhīśvara



*So all these incarnations are plenary parts of Kṛṣṇa. And this is confirmed in Brahma*-saṁhitā:



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



So Govinda, the Supreme Lord, the cause of all causes, His plenary portions are these three Viṣṇus.



*ei artha*-madhyama, śuna 'gūḍha' artha āra

*tina āvāsa*-sthāna kṛṣṇera śāstre khyāti yāra



Now, Kṛṣṇa abode, the planet which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, that has three divisions. As we have got replica on this earth, there is Vṛndāvana, Mathurā, and Dvārakā. Dvārakā is in Gujarat, and Mathurā and Vṛndāvana is in U.P., Uttar Pradesh, near Delhi. And Dvārakā is about three hundred miles or more than that from Delhi. So these are replicas of the original Kṛṣṇaloka.



*'antaḥpura'*-goloka-śrī-vṛndāvana

*yāhāṅ nitya*-sthiti mātā-pitā-bandhu-gaṇa



*madhuraiśvarya*-mādhurya-kṛpādi-bhāṇḍāra

*yogamāyā dāsī yāhāṅ rāsādi līlā*-sāra



*So out of these three places, Vṛndāvana*-dhāma is the most important. That is the confidential home of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a businessman might have many places for his business activities, but his home is different from all this business. He may live in the countryside in a cottage, but he may be a very big businessman. Similarly Kṛṣṇa, although He's all-powerful, He lives at Vṛndāvana in the gardenlike city. Not city; *a tract of land. A small city is there now. They have named Vṛndāvana. But Vṛndāvana's not that small city. It is a tract of land about eighty*-four miles. So it is full of gardens and full of nice places. Anywhere you go, you will find something wonderful to see. There are many trees and fruits and flowers, many varieties of birds, and the cranes on the Yamunā side. Each and every place is remembering Kṛṣṇa. If you go there you'll find that "Kṛṣṇa is... Somewhere He was playing. I must find out." It is such nice place. So Vṛndāvana is the most confidential part of Kṛṣṇa's abode.



*tāra tale paravyoma-'viṣṇuloka'*-nāma

nārāyaṇa-ādi ananta svarūpera dhāma



So in the spiritual world, that Vṛndāvana planet is the highest planet, and below that planet there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets which are called Viṣṇuloka.



*tāra tale paravyoma-'viṣṇuloka'*-nāma

nārāyaṇa-ādi ananta svarūpera dhāma



And the presiding Deity, predominating Deity in those planets is called Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa is also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Generally, Nārāyaṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but from authentic scripture we understand that Nārāyaṇa is expansion of Kṛṣṇa.



*'madhyama-āvāsa' kṛṣṇera-ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-bhāṇḍāra

ananta svarūpe yāhāṅ karena vihāra



*Although Kṛṣṇa is two*-handed and, I mean to say, busy with His flute-playing, but we do not know, many do not know, that He is, has expanded as Nārāyaṇa and Viṣṇu. He is the predominating Deity all over the spiritual world.



*ananta vaikuṇṭha yāhāṅ bhāṇḍāra*-koṭhari

*pāriṣada*-gaṇe ṣaḍ-aiśvarye āche bhari'



*And in each and every planet there are innumerable devotees. He's surrounded by the innumerable devotees. And He's reciting evidences, verse from Brahma*-saṁhitā:



*goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya

*devī*-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu

*te te prabhāva*-nicayā vihitāś ca yena

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.43]



*His own personal planet is Goloka Vṛndāvana, and below that planet there are many other, innumerable planets which are known as Vaikuṇṭha. And below that spiritual world there is material world. And between material world and spiritual world there is another space, which is called Śivaloka. And below that Śivaloka is this Devī*-dhāma. This material is called Devī-dhāma. Durgā. The presiding deity of this Devī-dhāma is Durgā. He's giving evidences from many authentic Vedic literatures. One of them is Brahma-saṁhitā. Then He's giving another evidence from Padma Purāṇa, the existence of spiritual planets. In Indian spiritual society the evidences are given from Vedic literature. Then it is accepted, not that mental speculationist's theory, "I think this. I think that..." No. Just the same example I have several times cited before you, that the law court, they give evidences from the lawbook, sections from the lawbook. Similarly, the process is whenever we speak something transcendental subject, if we can pick up evidences from Vedic literatures... There are many authentic Vedic literatures. They are accepted by the spiritual societies. And one's learning is proved if he can give evidences from these Vedic literatures. Similarly Lord Caitanya, whatever He is speaking, He's giving immediately references from Vedic literature. So, so far the existence of the spiritual world and different planets, spiritual planets, Vaikuṇṭha and Kṛṣṇaloka, one may think... Of course, those who have no knowledge, they may think that these are all stories. No, they are not stories. They are actual facts, and Lord Caitanya is giving evidences from Brahma-saṁhitā, from Padma Purāṇa, and similar other Vedic literatures.



Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



670105CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 21.49-61

-

New York, January 5, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya

*devī*-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu

*te te prabhāva*-nicayā vihitāś ca yena

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.43]



*The Brahma*-saṁhitā, this Brahma-saṁhitā was compiled by Brahmā. It is very old book. It was picked up by Lord Caitanya from South India. When He was traveling in South India, in a temple He found this book, handwritten, very old. Formerly there was no press. If anyone wanted some book, he would have to copy it from others. That was the system. The books were not available just like nowadays we have got printed, thousands and thousands copies. That was not available. So two books were collected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu from South India.



*One book is named Kṛṣṇa*-karṇāmṛta. That book was written by one of the devotees, very great devotee, Bilvamaṅgala. His life is very interesting. He was too much prostitute-hunter. In one incidence his kept prostitute gave him instruction, "Oh, you have got so much attraction for this skinny body. If you would have such attraction for Kṛṣṇa, I do not know what you have done." Oh, at once he became, "Yes." This is called reference to the context. Because he, that gentleman, in his previous life he cultivated Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the highest degree, but somehow or other, it was stopped. And as soon as the same thing was pointed out, he began again from that point. That is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even if we do not perform the whole process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whatever we do, that remains in asset. That is never lost. So this Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, from that prostitute's house he became a saintly man. So he wrote a very nice book, Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta. Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta means "pleasing to the ear." Anything about Kṛṣṇa is pleasing to the ear. So he wrote a voluminous book, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. That book was collected by Lord Caitanya. And along with that book, this Brahma-saṁhitā was collected.

*So in this Brahma*-saṁhitā this verse appears. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya [Bs. 5.43]. The supreme planet in the spiritual sky is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, and all other planets, either in the spiritual world or in the material world... All the universes, they are all in just like strata. So goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya [Bs. 5.43]. Underneath that goloka-nāmni there are different planetary spheres or systems. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu. Devī-dhāma. This is called Devī-dhāma. This material world called Devī-dhāma. Above this there is Maheśa-dhāma, Śivaloka. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāma. Hari-dhāma means these Vaikuṇṭhas. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu. In all those systems of different kinds of planets, teṣu teṣu, te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitas ca yena [Bs. 5.43]. Every planet, every spiritual atmosphere or material atmosphere, they have got some particular specially, every, every planet. So that is designed by Kṛṣṇa. Te te prabhāva-nicayā. Every planet has specific influence or specific... Just like in the moon planet the specific feature is that it gives you cold light. Moon planet is never hot. Similarly, in sun planet, it supplies you heat. You cannot expect from any other planet heat or any other planet this coolness. They are designed by the Supreme Lord, everything nicely. Te te prabhāva-nicayā. That speciality is designed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Govinda: He is reservoir of pleasure. So everything designed by Him is full of pleasure, and it is full of perfection. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. Ādi-puruṣam means the supreme, original personality. Tam ahaṁ bhajāmi: "I worship Him." Yes. That is the instruction. "I do not worship anyone; I worship Kṛṣṇa." That's all right. The Brahmā says.

*So we also coming from the same disciplic succession, to worship Kṛṣṇa, Brahmā. Then from Brahmā, Nārada learned how to worship Kṛṣṇa. From Nārada learned Vyāsadeva how to worship Kṛṣṇa. From Vyāsadeva learned Madhvācārya how to worship Kṛṣṇa. Then from Madhvācārya learned Mādhavendra Purī. Similarly, the disciplic succession is coming, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then His disciplic succession*-Svarūpa Dāmodara, Ṣaḍ-gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana, Viśvanātha Cakravartī. In this way there is a disciplic succession beginning from Lord Brahmā. But that Brahmā instructed, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **: "I worship the Supreme Original Personality of Godhead, Govindam." The Govinda-bhajan is the prime factor for all worshiping endeavors. Even Śaṅkarācārya, who was impersonalist, at the last stage of his life he advised everyone,

*bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha*-mate

*prāpte sannihite kāle na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛñ*-karaṇe



*He advised, "You fools, you are talking about philosophical speculation, grammatical meaning, and eschewing. Oh, these are all nonsense. You cannot save yourself by doing this. When there will be death, Govinda can save you. The Govinda can save you from falling down. So bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha*-mate. You foolish persons, you just worship Govinda." So there are from Śaṅkara...(?) Śaṅkarācārya is supposed to be the incarnation of Lord Śiva. So he also advised Govinda-bhajan, Brahmā also advised Govinda-bhajan, and we are also under the same principle, following the footprints of those ācāryas. We are also advising the Govinda-bhajan. So Govinda-bhajan, it is coming from time immemorial. It is not a new thing. So one should profit if he engages himself in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Govinda-bhajan.



*In the Padma*-Purāṇa also there is such references. It is said there,

*pradhāna*-parama-vyomnor

antare virajā nadī

*vedāṅga*-sveda-janitais

toyaiḥ prasrāvitā śubhā



tasyāḥ pāre paravyoma

*tripād*-bhūtaṁ sanātanam

amṛtaṁ śāśvataṁ nityam

anantaṁ paramaṁ padam



*Now, there is material world, this material world is within the mahat*-tattva compass. You have seen the picture, mahat-tattva compass. And that mahat-tattva is full with water. This is called Causal Ocean. And beyond that Causal Ocean, there is spiritual world. It is stated, tasyāḥ pāre paravyoma. Paravyoma means spiritual sky. And tripād-bhūtam. Tripād-bhūtaṁ sanātanam. Tripād-bhūtam means this material manifestation is only one-fourth energy of the Supreme Lord. This inferior energy is only one-fourth manifestation of the energy. The three-fourths manifestation of energy (is) in the spiritual world, and that is sanātanam. That is not subjected to creation and annihilation as this material world is subjected to that creation and annihilation. That is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. All Vedic literatures, they say the same thing. So we have to learn from authorized sources, and we can be informed perfectly about parāvara, para and avara. Avara means this inferior nature, and para means superior nature. Parāvaras te.



tāra tale 'bāhyāvāsa' virajāra pāra

ananta brahmāṇḍa yāhāṅ koṭhari apāra



*Now, after this spiritual world, this material world, that is full of innumerable universes. 'Devī*-dhāma' nāma tāra, jīva yāra vāsī. Now, this material world is called Devī-dhāma. And jīva, jīva means conditioned soul. In this Devī-dhāma, the conditioned soul... There are two kinds of souls: conditioned and liberated, nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta. Just like we are, similarly, there are living entities in the spiritual sky also, but they are liberated. They never become conditioned. We are conditioned. We do not know from when, but we are conditioned. So jīva yāra vāsī. In this material world, we conditioned, we are residents. But in the spiritual world the residents are all liberated souls. Jagal-lakṣmī rakhi' rahe yāhāṅ māyā dāsī.



*'devī*-dhāma' nāma tāra, jīva yāra vāsī

*jagal*-lakṣmī rakhi' rahe yāhāṅ māyā dāsī



*Ei tina dhāmera haya kṛṣṇa adhīśvara. Ei tina dhāma. Tina dhāma, what is that three systems? This Devī*-dhāma, the Maheśa-dhāma and Hari-dhāma. Hari-dhāma, the spiritual world, and Maheśa-dhāma, in between... This Maheśa-dhāma is the destination of nirvāṇa. The nirvāṇa philosophy, the Buddha philosophy, that is between this Devī-dhāma and Hari-dhāma, Maheśa-dhāma, in between. They are liberated also, but not in the spiritual world, in the marginal place, which is called nirvāṇa. Their material existence is finished, but their spiritual development is not there. So finishing material existence is not all. Just like one man is suffering from fever, and the fever subsides. That is not health. Fever subsides. That's all right. Fever has subsided. But healthy life is when he will work as a healthy man. Simply saying, "No, no more fever," no more fever, lying down on the bed, is the nirvāṇa stage. No more fever. There is no fever, but he is not competent to get up from the bed and work. So that is called nirvāṇa. The fever is finished. That is called nirvāṇa. So when material existence is finished, that is nirvāṇa. But you have to go further. You have to develop further. Then your real, constitutional life as spirit soul will be manifested. So that is bhakti-mārga. That activity is healthy life after nirvāṇa. So those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have already passed this material existence and nirvāṇa stage. They are in healthy activities, provided he is actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So ei tina dhāmera haya kṛṣṇa adhīśvara.



*Now, these tina dhāma, three systems of existence, the material world and the marginal place, Maheśa*-dhāma and the spiritual sky... So in the Bhagavad-gītā you have learned that yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. That dhāma word is used there. Dhāma means place. Everything, Kṛṣṇa is proprietor of all places. But that does not mean that we should remain in this because this is also Kṛṣṇa's place. No. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Tenth Chapter, you will find that Kṛṣṇa says, dyūtaṁ chalayatām asmi: "Amongst the all kinds of cheating professions, I am gambling." Kṛṣṇa says that "Amongst all kinds of cheating business, I am gambling." Gambling... There is in gambling... It requires some expert brain, how to play gamble. So that expertness, that part of expert endeavor, is Kṛṣṇa. So we should not think, "Oh, because Kṛṣṇa is gambling also, so let us engage and devote in gambling." No. Kṛṣṇa is everything. Kṛṣṇa is everything, but we have to select favorably, not unfavorably. Svalpaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without Brahman, without Kṛṣṇa, nothing can exist. Everything existing on His energy. The same example can be given that every department is government department. Therefore, if a prisoner says, "Yes, I am in government department," that sort of knowledge is not very good. "Because prison department is also criminal department, is also government department, so instead of becoming in the university department, let me go to the criminal department." That is not congenial. We have to select. Kṛṣṇa is everything. So Kṛṣṇa says that every dhāma, every place, belongs to Him, but yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: [Bg. 15.6] "There is an eternal dhāma, where going nobody comes back. That is My supreme dhāma."

So we have to associate with the Supreme. Kṛṣṇa is everything, but we have to associate with the Supreme, the best. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Goloka...

ei tina dhāmera haya kṛṣṇa adhīśvara

*goloka*-paravyoma-prakṛtira para



So that Goloka, that spiritual sky, is beyond this material manifestation.



*cic*-chakti-vibhūti-dhāma-tripād-aiśvarya-nāma

*māyika vibhūti*-eka-pāda abhidhāna



*tripād*-vibhūter dhāmatvāt

*tripād*-bhūtaṁ hi tat padam

vibhūtir māyikī sarvā

proktā pādātmikā yataḥ



*Because Kṛṣṇa's energy is manifested here, māyikā... Māyikā means like illusory, imitation, perverted. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also it is stated, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham [Bg. 15.1]. Here the tree, the original tree, is presented also, but how it is presented? Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham: "The root is upward, and the branches are downward." I think you may remember. Several times we have discussed. So how the root is upward and branches are downward? Have you seen any tree? Yes. We have seen. Where? In the reservoir of water or in a reflection you see the real tree is upwards, but the reflection is downwards. Therefore this material world is reflection. It is not real. Just day before yesterday I was pointing out the reflection of the sun from this side. So that reflection is playing. It is giving light, everything. But it is reflection, imitation. It has no value. Similarly, all this material world, it appears very nice, as if everything is all right, but nothing is all right. It is simply a temporary illusion. Therefore it is called māyikā. It is not the real thing. The real thing is there in the spiritual world. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says if you return to that real, I mean to say, abode, then you will have..., you haven't got to come back again to take birth in this material body. Yad dhāma gatva na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. Na tad bhāsayate sūryo na candro na pāvakaḥ [Bg. 15.6]. This is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is no need of sun. There is no need of moon. There is no need of electricity." These things are there.



*tripāda*-vibhūti kṛṣṇera-vākya-agocara

*eka*-pāda vibhūtira śunaha vistāra



*Now Lord Caitanya says that the whole energy of Kṛṣṇa is divided into two. The inferior energy is manifested. That is one*-fourth energy. And the superior energy manifested in the spiritual world, that is three-fourths. Now, just try to understand one-fourth first; *then you will understand three*-fourths. Lord Caitanya says that tripāda-vibhūti kṛṣṇera-vākya-agocara: "It is very difficult to describe the three-fourth energy. Let us try to understand one-fourth energy first of all." Eka-pāda vibhūtira śunaha vistāra. And what is that one-fourth energy?



*ananta brahmāṇḍera yata brahmā*-rudra-gaṇa

*cira*-loka-pāla-śabde tāhāra gaṇana



*There are innumerable universes, and each universe contains one Brahmā, one Śiva, one sun, one moon, one Indra, like that, officers just like. So there are innumerable universes, so innumerable Brahmā, innumerable Rudra, innumerable suns, innumerable moons, everything innumerable. But each brahmāṇḍa contains one each. So how it happens? It is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So Lord Caitanya is reciting that story.



*eka*-dina dvārakāte kṛṣṇa dekhibāre

*brahmā āilā*-dvāra-pāla jānāila kṛṣṇere



*One day, when Kṛṣṇa was king at Dvārakā, with sixteen thousand queens, so one day Brahmā of this universe came to see Him. Brahmā āilā*-dvāra-pāla jānāila kṛṣṇere. And as... The same etiquette was there also. This is also coming by paramparā. Just like a big man or a big officer, he has got his doorman; you have to present your card. I do not know what is the system here, but in India that is the system. You have to send your card, and the if doorman takes away that card and the permission comes, then you can go in and see. Similarly, when Brahmā came, he sent his card, informed the doorman, "Please inform Kṛṣṇa that I have come to see Him."



kṛṣṇa kahena-'kon brahmā, ki nāma tāhāra?'

dvārī āsi' brahmāre puche āra bāra



As soon as the doorman told Kṛṣṇa that "Brahmā has come to see You," Kṛṣṇa at once replied, "Oh, which Brahmā? Which Brahmā has come to see Me?" So,



vismita hañā brahmā dvārike kahilā

*'kaha giyā sanaka*-pitā caturmukha āilā'



*When the doorman inquired that "Which Brahmā you are, sir?" so he replied... He was astonished: "Which Brahmā? Oh, I am so powerful. I have got four heads. I have created this gorgeous universe, and under me there are so many demigods. How is that? 'Which Brahmā?' So all right, Kṛṣṇa has asked. Tell Him that...," kaha giyā sanaka-pitā caturmukha āilā, that "Tell Kṛṣṇa that I am four-headed Brahmā. I am the father of Sanaka-Sanātana." Sanaka-Sanātana, he is giving his identification as father of Sanaka-Sanātana because this Sanaka-Sanātana appeared to be greater than Brahmā. Although these four Kumāras were sons of Brahmā-Sanaka, Sanat-kumāra, Sananda and Sanātana, these four Kumāras*-they were so elevated that when their father requested-at that time there was no population-so, that "You get yourself married and increase population. I want population now to fill up this vacant position of this material world, universe." So they refused: "Father, we ere not going to marry. We are going to be entangled." So they remained kumāra. So they became very famous, great devotees of Lord from very childhood. So therefore Brahmā is very intelligent. He is the first creature of this universe. So maybe Kṛṣṇa forget that who is catur-mukha Brahmā. So he is giving identification that "Tell Kṛṣṇa that the father of these Sanaka-Sanātana." Because Kṛṣṇa cannot forget His these pure devotees like Sanaka-Sanātana. So this is the example, that the father is giving identification with the credit of the son. The sons were more creditable than the father because they were great devotees.



We shall explain tomorrow. Any questions? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



670106CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 21.62-67

-

New York, January 6, 1966



Prabhupāda:



kṛṣṇe jānāñā dvārī brahmāre lañā gelā

kṛṣṇera caraṇe brahmā daṇḍavat kailā



*So we have been discussing, yesterday, Brahmā visiting Kṛṣṇa as four*-headed Brahmā. He was little proud that "I am the original, first creature of the universe. I have got four heads, four hands." The material nature, the influence of material nature, is like that. Even Brahmā, who is supposed to be in full knowledge of Vedic literature... He is the father of Vedic literatures. He handed over the Vedas to Nārada. Still, that ahaṅkāra, "I am something," is there even in Brahmā, and what to speak of ordinary living entities like us? This material conception of life is like that, "I am" and "mine." Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Ahaṁ mameti. "I am something, supreme," and "It is mine." This is the material disease.



*So these things are sometimes executed by great īśvaras, controller, like Brahmā, like Śiva. They sometimes exhibit material frailties. They are not fallible in that way, but they teach us by their behavior that even personalities of the most exalted position, they are also sometimes subjected to the spell of illusory energy. The idea is that we should be very careful. Nobody should think that he is beyond the range of material energy. At any time we can fall down. But if we stick to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa as our protector, and take shelter unto His lotus feet sincerely, then even if we fall down sometimes, not intentionally, but accidentally-because we are practiced to so many bad things, so it may be possible that even I take full care, still, the influence is so strong, I may fall down-Kṛṣṇa excuses such kind of falldown. Excuses. But if we intentionally think, "Oh, because I am in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because I am engaged in devotional service, oh, I can do any nonsense and Kṛṣṇa will excuse me," no. Not like that. Kṛṣṇa will excuse you provided you do not do anything intentionally wrong. Generally, those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully, they have-I have already explained to you*-they have got all these twenty-six qualifications. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When we see the twenty-six qualification in full present, that means he is perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If those qualities are not present, that means there is still, I mean to say, a touch of contamination of material nature. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12].

*So far those who are in not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their material academic qualification has no value, no value, however M.A., Ph.D. he may be. Why? Mano*-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. Because the materialist without Kṛṣṇa consciousness... That is a materialist. One who has no conception of God, or Kṛṣṇa, and his proper relationship with Him, one who does not know the science of God, he is called materialist. Materialist does not mean something extraordinary (?) personality. One who does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is materialist. And one who makes progress in the science of Kṛṣṇa under regulation and under principles, they are called spiritualists. So materialists, the disease is that harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathena asati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. Unless we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully, we shall hover over the mental plane. We find so many philosophers, doctors of philosophy, they can go on speculating, mental plane, manaḥ, but actually they are asat. Their activities will be seen in materialistic. There is no spiritualistic realization.

*So more or less degree, this material conception is everywhere. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokān. Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokān. Beginning from the lowest planet up to the Brahmaloka, they are all affected. So similarly Brahmā, he thought himself, "Oh, how great I am that in my jurisdiction Kṛṣṇa, my Lord, has come, and He is playing like a boy, cowherds boy. How great I am. Kṛṣṇa has come just like a cowherd boy." You see? Therefore he... Kṛṣṇe jānāñā dvārī brahmāre lañā gelā. Kṛṣṇa inquired, "Which Brahmā has come?" Now the doorman takes him inside, and he enters Kṛṣṇa's room, offers his respect. Kṛṣṇera caraṇe brahmā daṇḍavat kailā. Now, if Kṛṣṇa is ordinary person, as the foolish rascals think, that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā: [Bg. 9.11] "The foolish rascals deride at Me as ordinary man," how it is possible that Brahmā is offering his respect to Kṛṣṇa? If you think that "These are all stories..." Not stories. Do you think Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking some stories, some fabricated stories, to get His followers? Do you think like that? No. Lord Caitanya, such a great devotee... Apart from His feature of incarnation, take Him as a great devotee, learned. He was vastly learned, and nobody could surpass Him in His learning in those days. He defeated... When He was a sixteen-years-old boy, He defeated the greatest scholar, Keśava Kāśmīrī. His name was Keśava. He came to Navadvīpa from Kashmir to talk with scholars. Formerly, as nowadays you have got*-what is called?-champion, champion. What is the meaning of champion?

Devotee: Best.



Prabhupāda: Best. Just like in sporting, there are champions in chessboard playing champion or so many departmental champion. This is coming from long, long ago. So similarly, there were champions of scholars. Just like in modern days a sportsman will challenge, and if he is victorious all over the world... Similarly, in those days there were competition of the great learned scholars, champions. So this Keśava Kāśmīrī... At least India, that was the system even five hundred years before. So Keśava Kāśmīrī, he was a paṇḍita.



*Now, India was united on the strength of religious culture and Sanskrit language. All over India the lingua franca, or the language, common language, at least for the scholars, not for the common man... The common man could speak any language*-Hindi, Parsi, or Bengali, Oriya, Telegu, so many. There are so many languages. In every district you will find some language. But that was not taken into consideration. When education is concerned, every student all over India, they would take education in Sanskrit. Sanskrit language was the... So our present government, they have introduced a state language as Hindi. There are so many protests and so many quarrels. They would have done better if they would have introduced Sanskrit language as it was previously. So the Sanskrit language was one, and the culture was Vedic. Therefore there was no disunion. Every part of the country in India, the same system. He may be a Bengali, he may be a Maharastrian, he may be a Gujarati, or he may be Oriya-there were so many provinces-but the culture was the same. Another unity was that sacred places were distributed all over India. Just like Gayā, a sacred place, it is situated in Bihar. And sacred place, Benares, it is situated in Uttar Pradesh. Vṛndāvana is situated on the border of Uttar Pradesh and Punjab. Similarly, Kashmir, and Punjab also; in South India, Rāmeśvaram; in Himalayan province, Haridwar. In this way all these provinces were distributed, and still it is going on. The provincialism is amongst the educated circle. So far the mass of people are concerned, they don't know what is province. They travel from one province to another. They don't require any visa. They don't require any passport. So that was very nice.

So this Sanskrit scholar, Keśava Kāśmīrī, he came from Kashmir to challenge the learned scholars in other parts of the country. There were four celebrated places where highly educated scholars were there. One was at Benares. Benares still, it is considered to be the center of Sanskrit scholars place. Similarly Navadvīpa, where Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born. And in Bihar there was a place, Darbhanga. That is also a scholarly. So Benares, and Berhampur (?), Berhampur in East Bengal near Dacca. So some of the places in India, they are very famous for learned scholars. Still they are continuing. So Sanskrit scholars would come in such celebrated places, and they would challenge for arguing on the śāstras. So the rule was that two parties will argue, and the defeated party will become the disciple of the victorious party. That was the system. So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was sixteen years old, this Keśava Kāśmīrī came to Navadvīpa to challenge. In other places he was victorious. He became champion. And then, at last, he came to Bengal, Navadvīpa. So that scholarly discussion will take place.

*Now notice is already given that "Keśava Kāśmīrī has come here," and he had an umbrella, and the four sides was covered with gold, and the one side is remaining. As soon as he becomes victorious in Navadvīpa, that side also will be covered with gold. So the people of Navadvīpa, learned scholars, they first of all thought that Nimāi Paṇḍita... Caitanya Mahāprabhu was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita because He was boy, sixteen*-years-old boy, very learned scholar, especially in logic He was very learned scholar, logician. He was so... Even in His sixth year, with His class friends He will establish one theory; again He will cut it; again He will establish; again He will cut it; *again the same, in His own way. He was so learned scholar, logician. So the elderly scholars of Navadvīpa, they designed that "This Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded first to talk with Keśava Kāśmīrī because He is a boy. But He is a very nice boy. He is a very learned boy. If He becomes victorious, then our Navadvīpa will be glorified, that 'Keśava Kāśmīrī was defeated by a sixteen*-years-old boy in Navadvīpa.' And if Nimāi Paṇḍita is defeated, then we shall go forward. We shall say, 'Oh, you have defeated a boy. Let us..., come to us.' So we get second chance." So that was the plan, Bengali plan, second chance: first chance, second chance. So it was arranged like that, that Lord Caitanya, Nimāi Paṇḍita, would talk, would discuss with Keśava Kāśmīrī.

*So one evening... Still during summer season on the Ganges side in the evening there are so many ladies and gentlemen, especially gentlemen. Ladies do not come. Nowadays come. Formerly they did not come out. So they came for strolling. And Nimāi Paṇḍita, although He was sixteen years old, He had many students. So formerly the system was that as soon as a boy becomes little grown up and learned, he will also teach some students. Catuṣpāthī. So although all the students were of the same age, still, Nimāi Paṇḍita was chief of them. So He was discussing with His own students on the bank of the Ganges. So Keśava Kāśmīrī came there for strolling, and he understood that "Oh, here is a boy, Nimāi Paṇḍita. He is to talk with me. So what this boy will talk with me?" He thought like that. So when he came before the assembly of the students, he talked with Nimāi that "Are You Nimāi Paṇḍita?" "Yes, sir. Who are you?" "I am Keśava Kāśmīrī." "Oh. Come on, come on. Sit down." The introduction was there. They sat down. And then Nimāi Paṇḍita requested, "So, I have heard that you are a very vastly learned scholar, and from your feature also I can understand, so best thing will be that you compose some poetry in praising Ganges." Because they were on the bank of the Ganges, and it is a Hindu system... Ganges water is considered very sacred, and there are many prayers of Ganges. Patita*-dharaṇī gaṅge. Patita-dharaṇī gaṅge. Ganges is the shelter for all the fallen souls. She can deliver. Śaṅkarācārya had composed many poems on the Ganges. There are many poetry on the Ganges. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was very learned scholar. Without any hesitation, he began to compose Sanskrit verses in praising Ganges. So he composed about one hundred verses immediately while talking.

*So out of the one hundred verses, on the sixty-fourth verse Lord Caitanya pointed out, "Will you kindly explain this line? I am little in difficulty to understand." What is that? There was a word, bhavānī-bhartā. Bhavānī-bhartā. Bhavānī... Means "husband of Bhavānī." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu pointed out that Bhavānī... "Bhava means Lord Śiva, and bhavānī means Lord Śiva's wife, and bhartā means husband. So this bhavānī word itself indicates that she is the wife of Lord Śiva, and why you have stated again bhartā, again 'husband'?" This is called dvirukti-doṣa (?). Sanskrit language is very scholarly language, reformed. You cannot deviate even a line, even a letter in the sense, in the poetry, in the writing. There are all regulation, strict regulation, grammatical and metric and so many things. So nobody can surpass, not that... Just like nowadays we write poetry*-one line is three hundred miles, one hundred, (chuckles) and only one mile. That sort of poetry will not be allowed in Sanskrit. You cannot adjust three hundred miles and one mile. No. It must be very symmetrical. That is Sanskrit language.

So the Paṇḍita, Kāśmīrī Paṇḍita, became surprised. The Kāśmīrī Paṇḍita became surprised: "How is that? This boy understood? He was a student of grammar, and He is pointing out literary defects?" Oh, he became very much, much surprised. Then he admitted. He was learned scholar. He admitted his fault and he said, "How is that? I have heard that You are student of grammar, and You are pointing out defects in literary construction?" "No. Yes. Yes, sir. I am a student of grammar. But I have heard it from great scholars like you. Of course, I do not know, but I have heard it." He very submissively replied that "I am not scholar, but I have heard it from scholars that this is the technique (?)." He could understand that "He is a very clever student." And there were many others. He pointed out defects. He thought in the beginning, "Oh, He is asking to compose some poetries. I shall show Him how can I compose poetry, hundreds." He did not care so much that He will point out so many defects in them. But when he saw it, he became sorry. And then the students, Lord Caitanya's students, as it is usual, they began to laugh. Caitanya Mahāprabhu at once told them, "Don't laugh in that way." So this Keśava Kāśmīrī went to his home, and he was a devotee of Goddess Sarasvatī. He prayed that "Mother, I was never defeated in such a way. What offense I have made unto your lotus feet that I am defeated before a boy?" So then Goddess Sarasvatī presented herself in dream and informed that "This boy is not ordinary boy. You are fortunate that you are defeated before Him. Best thing will be that you go and surrender unto Him, and you'll be profit." So this Keśava Kāśmīrī became a student of Lord Caitanya.

*So these puffed*-up things are going on in every field of activities. But Lord Kṛṣṇa is always greater than everyone. So here Brahmā is asking,

*kṛṣṇa mānya*-pūjā kari' tāṅre praśna kaila

'ki lāgi' tomāra ihāṅ āgamana haila?'



As he offered his respect to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa received him, "Oh, welcome, Brahmā. I am very glad to see you. What is the special message that you have, all of a sudden you come here?" So,



brahmā kahe-'tāhā pāche kariba nivedana

eka saṁśaya mane haya, karaha chedana



"Yes, Sir, I shall speak for what for I have come here. But I have got some doubts. First of all, You kindly clear these doubts." Then what is that doubt? Eka saṁśaya mane haya, karaha chedana.



'kon brahmā?' puchile tumi kon abhiprāye?

*āmā ba*-i jagate āra kon brahmā haye?'



"So You have asked, 'Which Brahmā?' Sir, I am surprised. Is there any other Brahmā than myself in this world?"



śuni' hāsi' kṛṣṇa tabe karilena dhyāne

*asaṅkhya brahmāra gaṇa āilā tata*-kṣaṇe



"Kṛṣṇa smiled. 'Oh, yes, there are so many Brahmās. I am calling them.' " So innumerable Brahmās appeared before Kṛṣṇa.



*daśa*-biśa-śata-sahasra-ayuta-lakṣa-vadana

*koṭy*-arbuda mukha kāro, nā yāya gaṇana



So unlimited. He had four faces, four heads, and then many Brahmās came with hundred thousands of faces. That was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa.



*So this instruction is that we speak of God as unlimited, but when He makes some manifestation of unlimitedness, we take it in a different way. But actually that is not the fact. If God has unlimited potency, He can do anything and everything. That is unlimitedness. We should not restrict God with our speculative mind, that "How is that? Oh, four*-headed Brahmā, then thousand-headed Brahmā? How it is possible?" Yes. If Kṛṣṇa likes, if God likes, He can make millions-of-headed Brahmā. Otherwise there is no meaning of unlimited. He can show anything and everything. We should accept.

So these things are going on. We shall discuss later on, tomorrow. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Any questions? (end)





670107CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.5

-

New York, January 7, 1967



Prabhupāda:



kṛṣṇa bhakti abhidheya sarva śāstre kaya

*ataeva muni*-gaṇa kariyāche niścaya



So we have just studied the constitutional position of Kṛṣṇa by His original standing as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, His different expansions, incarnations, and how He is situated as the supreme controller of the spiritual and material manifestation. So far, as far as possible, we have studied through the grace of Lord Caitanya. And even up to the prime, primal living entity within this material world, namely Brahmā... Brahmā is considered to be the supreme. He is also living entity like us, but he is supreme powerful within this material universe. Just like within this state, President Johnson is the supreme powerful, but he is a man like us, a living entity, but he has got supreme power. Similarly, Brahmā is a living entity like us, but by his meritorious and devotional service to the Lord, he is exalted as the supreme personality within this material world. But he is not Supreme Personality of Godhead. Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra sab... [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. And only Kṛṣṇa is the master, and everyone is servant, however great he may be.



*So even Kṛṣṇa's expansion, Viṣṇu, He is also subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. The greatest manifestation of Viṣṇu is the Mahā*-Viṣṇu who is lying on the Causal Ocean of material creation, wherefrom the material universes are emanating by His breathing process. Such a gigantic and huge, I mean to say, form of Viṣṇu with four hands, He is also stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā,

*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*"I worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, whose plenary parts of the portion is Mahā*-Viṣṇu." And what is that Mahā-Viṣṇu? "In whose breathing period all these universes are coming and being annihilated." That is the process of His breathing. Just like with our breathing we are extricating so many germs and again we are taking so many germs, similarly, the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu is He is exhaling so many universes and again inhaling so many universes. That Mahā-Viṣṇu is also the plenary expansion of Kṛṣṇa.



*So we are going to have our relationship with that Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then how that can be achieved? That is now being explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and that is called, the process of executing the service by which we can attain to that point, is called abhidheya. Abhidheya means execution of duties, execution of duties, or execution of obligation*-not duty: obligation. Duty you sometimes may avoid, and you may be excused, but obligation we cannot. Obligation means you have to. Because you are meant for that, if you do not do that, then you will be in difficulty. Our obligation as living entities... We are part and parcel of the Supreme. Just like the hand. At once I feel some itching sensation here, so at once the hand comes without asking for it. It is so made psychologically and mechanically and whatever you may say. At once I feel some itching; *at once the hand comes-obligation. It is obligation. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme. We have got obligation to serve Kṛṣṇa. If we are not doing that... That means if the hand is cut off from this body, there is no obligation. The hand which is cut off from this body, that hand will not come to cure my itching. That means it is fallen. His business is finished. Similarly, if we do not... Just like if the hand does not work the obligation which it has*-to serve this body-then it is to be understood the paralyzed or diseased, infected. And doctor sometimes advise, "Cut it off. If you want to save your other parts of the body, then cut it off." Similarly, these conditioned souls, they are now conditioned, or in one way they are cut off from the original, I mean to say, relationship, forgetful. So if we want... If this hand wants to remain in healthy state, it is the duty of the hand to fulfill the obligation of the hand's duty, and then it remains very healthy condition.

So our duty is to serve God. There is no other duty. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching, that "You have no other duty, anything. That is all false illusion. If you have selected any other duty than to serve Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are foolish. You are doing something wrong, which is not for your interest." This is the teaching of Lord Caitanya and the Bhāgavata also. So if somebody may argue, "Oh, if I completely engage myself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, then what to do? How I shall live in this material world? Who will take care of my maintenance?" that is our foolishness. If you serve an ordinary person here, you get your maintenance; *you get your wages, dollars. You are so foolish that you are going to serve Kṛṣṇa and He is not going to maintain you? Yoga*-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I personally take charge of his maintenance." Why don't you believe it? Practically you can see. That means faithlessness. There is no reason. Suppose I am serving some master here, so-called master, and he is at once paying me wages-"Take your wages"-twenty-five dollars, ten dollars or whatever it may be, at once paying. And I am going to serve the Supreme, and there is no maintenance for me? Oh, what a foolishness. This is called forgetful. This is called spell of māyā. Māyā will dictate, "Oh, you are going to serve Kṛṣṇa? How you'll maintain yourself, you foolish. Don't go there. Don't go to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. It is cheating." No, it is not cheating. It is actual fact. Yes. It is not cheating. But if you want to gratify your senses, oh, there is no scope. Then go to hell. Then go to hell. But if you want to serve Kṛṣṇa, there is every arrangement for you. There is every arrangement for you. If you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will also cheat you. Dyūtaṁ chalayatām asmi. Kṛṣṇa has said in His vibhūti-yogam that "Amongst all cheating process, I am gambling. I am gambling." There is cheating process. Wherefrom this cheating process comes? There is cheating process in Kṛṣṇa also because He is the origin of everything. Whatever there is, even cheating process, thieving process, what is condemned in this world, that is also there in Kṛṣṇa, but that is without any contamination. That is difference. When He cheats, it becomes worshipable. Kṛṣṇa wanted to cheat Dronācārya. That is a fact in the Mahābhārata. He advised Arjuna, "Just go," asked Yudhiṣṭhira that "Just go and tell lie to Dronācārya that 'Your son is dead.' " Don't you think Kṛṣṇa is trying to cheat? So there is cheating. Everything is there, but that is in full. God is good; therefore His cheating is good, His thieving is good. Everything is absolute. Unless you cannot understand this Absolute Truth, there is no understanding of Kṛṣṇa. There is no understanding of Kṛṣṇa.

So here it is said, abhidheya. How to make progress in that execution of devotional service, that is being taught. So,

*śrutir mātā pṛṣṭā diśati bhavad-ārādhana*-vidhiṁ

yathā mātur vāṇī smṛtir api tathā vakti bhaginī

*purāṇādyā ye vā sahajani nivahās te tad*-anugā

ataḥ satyaṁ jñātaṁ murahara bhavān eva śaraṇam



One great sage, a learned sage, after finishing all kinds of Vedic literature... There are two kinds of Vedic literature. One is called śruti, and the other is called smṛti. Śruti means the original Vedic injunction which is coming through disciplic succession beginning from Kṛṣṇa down to this day. There are certain axiomatic truths which is called Vedic injunction. The axiomatic truth, as I have given you several times example that cow dung is pure... Now, your reason is, "Oh, you say the Vedic injunction that if you touch stool of any animal you have to take your bath, purify yourself. And the Vedic injunction says cow dung is pure. Oh, this is contradictory." No. Not contradictory. This is injunction. People are actually accepting this, no argument, and they are benefited by it. So axiomatic truth. How it is truth? You may not have sufficient intelligence, but if you go deep into the matter you will find it is all truth: "Yes, it is all right." That is called Vedic injunction. So you cannot argue. You have to accept as it is. You cannot interpret. What education we have got, what intelligence, that we can interpret on Vedic injunction? No. It should be accepted as it is. That is called Vedic injunction. This is called śruti. You have to simply hear and act accordingly. That is called Vedic. And smṛti. Smṛti means if you are learned scholar in the Vedic injunction, if you have heard from the bona fide souls, and if you are convinced, then if you write something, that is smṛti. You cannot write nonsense. You have to write something which corroborates with the Vedic injunction. That is called smṛti. You cannot manufacture anything. You should always remember that "I am a tiny brain here, so I have to receive knowledge from superior sources." Then whatever knowledge you have received, if you can expand that in your, by your, I mean to say, capacity, that is called smṛti.



*So there are two different kinds of Vedic literature. One section is called śruti, originally coming. Just like this Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. This is a book written by Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, a great devotee of Lord Caitanya. It is called smṛti. Why? Everything written here is corroborating the Vedic literature. There is nothing, suggestion, "I am a philosopher. I am a speculator. I think this will be like this" Here you'll see in every step he is quoting from Vedas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is quoting. This is the topics between Sanātana Gosvāmī... This is the Vedic way. Now that sage, a great sage, he is giving his conclusion that śrutir mātā pṛṣṭā diśati bhavad-ārādhana-vidhim: "I have inquired so many Vedic literature. Now I am in conclusion that worshiping the Supreme Lord, that is the injunction of the..., nothing more. Nothing more." The whole idea is... And that is confirmed by Bhagavad-gītā also. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter you will find. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. What is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you can understand to some extent Kṛṣṇa, then your all Vedic studies finished. No more taking trouble. So we have to follow.

*Now, here the great sage says that "I have consulted all the Vedic process, all the Vedic literature, and I see that bhagavad-ārādhana*-vidhi: the only injunction is that, to worship the Supreme Lord." And similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is confirmed by the Lord, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam: [Bg. 15.15] "By Vedic study means I. One has to understand Me. That's all." If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa as far as possible, through the reliable sources, through the bona fide sources, then your Vedic study is going on in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tepus tapas...

*aho bata śva*-paco 'to 'pi garīyān

*yaj*-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam

tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā

brahmānūcur nāma...

[SB 3.33.7]



*The Bhāgavata says that aho bata śvapaco 'to 'pi garīyān. There is classification of human society. Śvapaca means those dog*-eaters. There are many animal eaters, but the dog-eaters, they are condemned, śvapaca, in the society, in the human society. But the Bhāgavata says, "Oh, a dog-eater, but if he vibrates the transcendental sound of God's name, oh, he is glorified. Never mind that he previously was a dog-eating man. That doesn't matter." The Bhāgavata confirms it. Aho bata śvapaca 'to 'pi gāriyān: "Even the dog-eater becomes glorified." How? Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam: "In whose tongue is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." Never mind what you are. That chanting has made him all purified. You see. Aho bata śvapaca 'to 'pi gāriyān yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyam, tepus tapas te [SB 3.33.7]. "Oh, how is that? He was... Just a few days before he was eating dog. And because he is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, he has become purified?" At least Hindu society, they are hesitant. Oh, the reply is, "You do not know." Tepus tapas te: [SB 3.33.7] "In their previous life they had already undergone many severe penances prescribed in your Vedas." Sasnur āryā: "Oh, he is not dog-eater. He belongs to the āryā, the advancing Aryan society." These are the injunctions.



*So any way, some way or other, if one takes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he becomes at once purified, at once. Never mind what he is. There may be classification in the social convention: he is big, he is small, he is brāhmaṇa, he is śūdra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never says that "I am a brāhmaṇa," "I am a kṣatriya." Nāhaṁ vipra na ca nara*-patiḥ: "I am neither a brāhmaṇa nor a kṣatriya nor a vaiśya and anything of this material designation." "Then what You are?" Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 13.80] "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is our transcendental... So as soon as we take to this, then everything is all right. But we have to take it very seriously. That is called abhidheya. With all seriousness... Then everything is all right. It is such a nice thing. Everything is all right.

Yathā mātur vāṇī. Now śruti, this Vedic, vedo mātā. Vedo mātā. Veda is called mother. Why? But this mother gives birth the second birth. We have... Several times we have discussed in this hall that first birth is given by this material father and second birth is by the spiritual master. The spiritual master is the father, and the Veda is the mother. So when a person is called dvija, second birth, when he goes to the spiritual master and takes lessons from Veda... This upana... The sacred thread is called upanayana... Upanayana means to bring him nearer. Upa means nearer, and nayana means bringing. To take a fallen soul nearer, that is called upanayana. And when the spiritual master sees that he is quite competent to come near to God, he recognizes him and he gives him sacred thread. That is called brāhmaṇa. That is the symbol that he has approached an ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. How one is understood that he knows spiritual science? That means who has a spiritual master. These things are there.

*Śrutir mātā. Śrutir mātā. Smṛtir api tathā vakti bhaginī. Now, I have... We have divided the Vedic literature into two. The knowledge which is coming in disciplic succession, that knowledge is mother, and this knowledge, by memory, with reference to the context of Vedic literature, if you sometimes write, that literature is the sister. That is compared with sister. One is with the mother, and the other is the sister. Purāṇādyā ye vā sahaja nivahās te tad*-anugā. So all these Purāṇas, they are called śruti. There are eighteen Purāṇas, the Mahābhārata, the Rāmāyaṇa, and there are so many, Vedānta-sūtra... They are called... Upaniṣad is Veda; *it is śruti. That is the gist of Vedic knowledge. But Purāṇas, they are called smṛti. So this śruti smṛtir, according to Indian theistic scholarship, there are two kinds of literature: śruti smṛti. So there was another devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He has written another nice song. He says, śrutim apare smṛtim apare bhārata manye bhava*-bhītāḥ. Well, people are taking shelter of the Vedic literature who have become afraid of this conditional life. What is the end of Vedic literature? Just to get oneself liberated from this material entanglement. So he says that "People, those who are afraid of this material life, material entanglement, let them worship śruti, Veda, or smṛti, or Mahābhārata. Let them be engaged in that way." Śrutim apare smṛtim itare bhāratam anye bhajantu bhava-bhītāḥ. "Then? What is that?" "Now, I am not going to do that." "What you are going to do?" Aham iha nandaṁ vande yasyālinde paraṁ brahma: "I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja." "Why? You have left all Veda and Purāṇas, everything. Why you are going to worship Nanda Mahārāja?" "Because he has captivated the Supreme Lord playing as a crawling child in his courtyard. So I shall worship Nanda. Nanda Mahārāja is so great that God is obliged to come to him to play as a child and crawling in his courtyard. So I shall... Nanda Mahārāja." So if you approach such a devotee who can bring God to crawl in his courtyard, that is all perfection.

Thank you. Any question? (end)



670108CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.6

-

New York, January 8, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*śrutir mātā pṛṣṭā diśati bhavad-ārādhana*-vidhiṁ

yathā mātur vāṇī smṛtir api tathā vakti bhaginī

purāṇādyā ye vā sahaja nivahās te tad anugā

ataḥ satyaṁ jñātaṁ murahara bhavān eva śaraṇam



*So this learned sage, by his experience he is saying that after studying all Vedic literature, and all Upaniṣads, Vedānta, Purāṇam, four Vedas, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, volumes of literature, so the conclusion is that, "O my dear Lord," bhavān eva śaraṇam, "You are the only ultimate shelter." This is the last stage of knowledge, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. "After struggling for many, many births to acquire knowledge..." So when one comes to this point-bhavān eva śaraṇam, "You are the ultimate shelter"*-that is the perfection of knowledge. Our editor has written very nice article, "Kṛṣṇa, the End of Knowledge." Yes. When you come to Kṛṣṇa point, then everything is knowledge, knowable. Of course, so far our knowledge is concerned... But so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He is unlimited. Nobody can know Him. But at least to that point, if we can reach... That is also very difficult. Simply to reach to that point, there are the struggle. So many scholars, so many still, coming to the nearest point, still, they say, "Oh, not Kṛṣṇa, not Kṛṣṇa. It is impersonal. It is impersonal." So this knowledge is acquired by the grace of the Supreme Lord, by the association of pure devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ, one can attain this qualification. And if some way or other, either by faith or by knowledge or by association or by accident, if one comes to this point, that "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, is the ultimate goal," then his life is perfect.



*advaya*-jñāna-tattva kṛṣṇa-svayaṁ bhagavān

'svarūpa-śakti' rūpe tāṅra haya avasthāna



*Now, Lord Caitanya says that Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, advaya*-jñāna-tattva, who is Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, svayaṁ bhagavān, the Supreme Personality... The Absolute Truth in the ultimate is a person. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will see in the Eleventh Chapter that Kṛṣṇa was requested by Arjuna to show His universal form, because for ordinary persons, that universal form is..., the gigantic universal form is supposed to be... That is God. But they do not know. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto [Bg. 9.11]. They do not know that this universal form is only an offshoot of Kṛṣṇa. They do not know. Less intelligent class of men, they think impersonal form or the universal form or even the four-handed Viṣṇu form... They consider that they are greater. But in the Eleventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā you will find that Kṛṣṇa, by the request of Arjuna, assumed His universal form, viśvarūpa. Now, after seeing the viśvarūpa Arjuna was afraid. He was in friendly relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and when he saw His viśvarūpa, he became too much perturbed in his mind: "Oh, what mistake I have done. I took Kṛṣṇa as my friend, and I do not know how much offenses I have committed. Friendly relation, there are sometimes very slackened languages and used sometimes calling, 'You, Kṛṣṇa,' sometimes..., so many things. Friendly relations are very relaxation relation." So he thought that "I have committed so much offenses to Kṛṣṇa," and he begged pardon. "Out of my impudence, out of my ignorance, I have done so many things. Please excuse just like a father excuses his son, just like a friend excuses his friend, just like husband excuses wife or the wife excuses." These things are there.



*Then again he asked Kṛṣṇa to assume His four*-handed Nārāyaṇa-rūpa. So Kṛṣṇa also showed him the Nārāyaṇa four-handed rūpa. And then again Kṛṣṇa transformed Himself again into that two-handed Śyāmasundara with flute, and as it is, He transformed Himself. Now, the question is: If Kṛṣṇa is ordinary person, just like some foolish commentators say, "Not to Kṛṣṇa," then how could He assume this viśvarūpa and the Nārāyaṇa-rūpa? Can an ordinary person assume that rūpa, that form? It is not possible. Therefore the answer in the Bhagavad-gītā is avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. There is stated, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ: "They do not know." Now, Arjuna wanted to confirm this paraṁ bhāvam, that the less intelligent class of men who are fond of the universal form or the Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa form, and there are so many innumerable forms... Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam. Kṛṣṇa has ananta-rūpa. But the ultimate, supreme form is Kṛṣṇa. They do not know. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Ajānantaḥ means they do not know that paraṁ bhāva. So here the same thing is confirmed by Lord Caitanya, that He says, advaya-jñāna-tattva kṛṣṇa-svayaṁ bhagavān.

*So the Absolute Truth, the ultimate stage of realizing Absolute Truth, is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Brahman realization, Paramātmā realization, they are not perfect realization of the Absolute Truth. Partial realization. Brahman realization means realization of the Absolute Truth in eternity. That's all. Paramātmā realization of the Absolute Truth is realization of eternity and knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa realization means full realization of the Absolute Truth, means eternity, knowledge, and bliss. Without Kṛṣṇa knowledge we cannot be blissful. But by nature we are blissful. In the Brahma*-sūtra, in the Vedānta-sūtra, it is stated, ānandamayo abhyāsāt. Every living entity, Brahman... Living entities, they are Brahman, and Kṛṣṇa is also Parabrahman. So Brahman and Parabrahman, both of them are by nature joyful. They want joy, enjoyment. So our joyfulness is in connection with Kṛṣṇa, just like fire and the sparks of fire. The sparks of fire, so long manifested with the fire, it is beautiful. And as soon as the sparks of fire falls down from the original fire, oh, it is extinguished, no more beautiful. So we are in the same relationship with Kṛṣṇa. He is the complete whole; we are parts and parcels. Just like the complete whole fire and the sparks of fire. When the fire and the sparks are displayed, it looks very nice. Both of them enjoy. And when the spark... Of course, fire has unlimited potency to produce sparks. But the sparks, when is out of the fire, fireplace, then it loses its identity, and this is called conditioned life. We are in that conditioned life. We are fire, sparks of fire. But because we are in material contamination, therefore we have become conditioned.

*So knowledge means to understand... Beginning of knowledge is to understand one's constitutional position. That knowledge is imparted in the beginning of the Bhagavad*-gītā, that "You are not this body. You are spirit spark."

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*So you are spark, spiritual spark. You are simply changing dress. That is your conditioned stage. So Lord Caitanya says, advaya*-jñāna-tattva kṛṣṇa-svayaṁ bhagavān. Svayaṁ bhagavān, the Absolute Truth... 'Svarūpa śakti' rūpe tāṅra haya avasthāna: "He is situated in His internal potency." Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says,



yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya...

[Bg. 4.7]



paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

*sambhavāmy ātma*-māyayā

[Bg. 4.8]



*Ātma-māyayā, internal potency. He is situated in the spiritual world by internal potency. And this is, this material world, His external potency. Therefore, although external potency is also Kṛṣṇa's potency*-it is not different from Kṛṣṇa-but Kṛṣṇa is not here in the external potency. Kṛṣṇa is in the internal potency, although this potency is not different. Therefore it is inferior. It is inferior energy, it is called. And this, this is explained very nicely in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā: [Bg. 9.4] "By Me the whole spiritual and material world is manifested." Tatam idam. How it is manifested? Just like the sun and sunshine. Sunshine is manifested all over the universe, and sun is the central point. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central point, and His shining brahmajyoti is diffused all over. And the part of that brahmajyoti, when it is, I mean to say, covered by the cloud of mahat-tattva, that is called material existence. So we are in this darkness. So Kṛṣṇa says, Lord Cai... So his place is in the internal potency. 'Svarūpa-śakti' rūpe tāṅra haya avasthāna. He is situated there in His internal potency.



*svāṁśa*-vibhinnāṁśa-rūpe hañā vistāra

*ananta vaikuṇṭha*-brahmāṇḍe karena vihāra



*Now, then Kṛṣṇa, He expands Himself. Eko bahu śyāma. That is the Vedic version: "One is expanding into many." And how that many is manifested? That is explained here, that svāṁśa, vibhinnāṁśa. He expands Himself as person, Himself, and as parts. As person, Himself, that expansion is called Viṣṇu*-tattva. And the vibhinnāṁśa, separated expansion, we are, living entities. We are also expansion. The expansion of Viṣṇu-tattva is just like Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, all the incarnation, all Viṣṇu-tattva, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha. There are so many thousands and millions of expansions, svāṁśa, personal self and separated self. We are also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel expansion; therefore we have got intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa.



*svāṁśa*-vibhinnāṁśa-rūpe hañā vistāra

*ananta vaikuṇṭha*-brahmāṇḍe karena vihāra



*So Kṛṣṇa is both in the spiritual world and the material world. Because we represent Kṛṣṇa, we are in this brahmāṇḍa conditioned. But there are many living entities who are eternally liberated. They never come to this. How it is, that? Just like the ocean and the rivers. In river, in the river, you will find fishes, and in the ocean you will find fishes. But the... Sometimes it may be that the fishes of the river may go to the ocean, but the fishes of the ocean never comes to the river. Never comes to the river. There is no place for them. This is a crude example. Similarly... And as the ocean is far, far greater than the river*-thousands of rivers cannot be compared with the, I mean to say, measurement of the ocean-similarly, thousands and millions of this material world cannot be compared with the spiritual world. The spiritual world is so great that millions of material world taken together, it can be dropped into the spiritual world. It is such great. Therefore material world is called one-fourth manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. And the spiritual world is called three-fourth manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy.



*svāṁśa*-vibhinnāṁśa-rūpe hañā vistāra

*ananta vaikuṇṭha*-brahmāṇḍe karena vihāra



*svāṁśa*-vistāra-catur-vyūha avatāra-gaṇa

*vibhinnāṁśa jīva*-tāṅra śaktite gaṇana



*Now, svāṁśa, His personal expansion, is catur*-vyūha. The first expansion is catur-vyūha. Svayaṁ rūpa, svayaṁ prakāśa. Svayam rūpa, the personal self, Kṛṣṇa. And when He begins to expand, the next immediate expansion is Balarāma, Baladeva. And from Baladeva, catur-vyūha, four expansion. Kāya-vyūha. He is guarding, vyūha, guarding. What are those expansion? Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha and Vāsudeva, these expansion, catur-vyūha. And from Saṅkarṣaṇa, all kinds of incarnations... From Saṅkarṣaṇa, all kinds of incarnation comes. In this way we have already discussed to some extent in the previous chapter. Vibhinnāṁśa jīva-tāṅra śaktite gaṇana. And the separated expansions, the living entities, they are counted as a different energy of the Supreme Lord. Just like there is difference between the heat and the fire. Fire is with heat, but heat is, although has got the fire's qualification, it is not fire. Heat you can touch, but fire you cannot touch. Just like there is some distinction. But there is no distinction also because fire is also hot and heat is also hot. But still, there is distinction between fire and heat. So heat, what is the position of heat? Heat is energy of fire. Similarly, although we are expansion of the Supreme Lord, we jīvas, living entities, we are just like heat, not fire. Fire is Kṛṣṇa.



So,

*sei vibhinnāṁśa jīva*-dui ta' prakāra

*eka-'nitya*-mukta', eka-'nitya saṁsāra'



*Now, this energy manifested as the living entities, they are also two kinds. What are they? Eka*-nitya-mukta. One class of living entities, they are eternally liberated. Just like the fishes in the ocean. Take the ocean as the place of liberation. Sometimes the example is given that as the rivers glide down to the ocean and the water is become one... That's all right. That oneness... This is impersonal conception. Everyone goes and mixes as every river goes down to the ocean, and there is no more distinction which is the river water and which is the ocean water. They become one. That is the monistic philosophy. But Vaiṣṇava philosophy goes farther, that "Why you are satisfied with the water? Why don't you see within the water?" Within the water you will find there are big, big fishes and aquatic animals. They keep their separate identity, and they enjoy in the ocean. The foolish persons, they are satisfied that "I am in the ocean now." That is the less intelligence. Go deep into the ocean and see what is going there. Similarly, those who are satisfied simply by merging into the spiritual existence, impersonalists, they are less intelligent. They have no intelligence to see that within the ocean there is individual expansion, individual life, and they are enjoying. Similarly, in the spiritual sky there is individuality. That individuality is there. And that individuality is reciprocated between Kṛṣṇa and the individual souls. They are called nitya-mukta, eternally liberated. And the other class, who are just like in the river fishes, they are called nitya-baddha. Their, I mean to say, limited sphere in the river or in the pond or in the well... The frog philosophy. They are expanding themselves, frogs: "How much great is Atlantic Ocean?" So they are called conditioned soul. Those who are in this material world, although they are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord energy, but because they are conditioned in this material contamination, they are called, I mean to say, conditioned, conditioned by the laws of nature.



So the whole process is... To understand these thing means that why should we remain conditioned under the laws of material nature? Let us try to go back to the ocean and become as big. That should be the philosophy of your life.

Thank you very much. Any question? (end)



670109CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.11-15

-

New York, January 9, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*'nitya*-mukta'-nitya kṛṣṇa-caraṇe unmukha

*'kṛṣṇa*-pāriṣada' nāma, bhuñje sevā-sukha



*Yesterday we have been discussing two kinds of living entities. One class, nitya*-mukta, eternally liberated, they never come to this material world. They are eternally liberated. And another class, just like we are, conditioned. We are eternally conditioned. Eternally conditioned means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. It is not possible to trace out the history. Because living entity, by nature, he is not conditioned. But actually we see that we are conditioned, and there is no possibility to trace out the history. Many, many Brahmā's life... Not only one Brahmā's, there are so many Brahmās changed, and we are conditioned. So therefore we are called eternally conditioned.



Now this... What is the difference between the two? Those who are eternally free, liberated, they are godly. They are always ready to render transcendental loving service to the Lord. They are satisfied in that way. Just like mother is satisfied simply by loving child, or friend is satisfied simply by loving. Of course, that sort of love is not possible in this material world, but there are some rare instances. At least we can get an idea that... Similarly, the eternal liberated souls, they are satisfied simply by loving Kṛṣṇa. That is their satisfaction. Everyone wants to love. That is natural propensity. Everyone. When there is no loving object, then in this material world we sometimes love cats and dogs. You see? Because I must love somebody. If I don't find any suitable person lovable, then I turn my love to some hobby, to some animal, like that, because the love is there. So this is dormant. Our love for Kṛṣṇa is dormant. It is within us, but because we have no information of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are reposing our love to something which is frustration. That is not the object of love. Therefore we are frustrated. So many instances we have got, we did not describe. But here in this material world, love is 99.9% all frustration, because the love is not reposed to the proper place. The proper place is Kṛṣṇa. If we love Kṛṣṇa, then we can love everyone. Just like if we pour water on the root of the tree then the other parts of the tree, leaves and flowers and fruits and branches, automatically... So if we learn to love Kṛṣṇa, then we can perfectly love others.

*So those who are eternally liberated, they love Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are perfect in the spiritual world. 'Nitya*-mukta'-nitya kṛṣṇa-caraṇe unmukha, 'kṛṣṇa-pāriṣada' nāma. They are all associates. The Supreme Lord is person, and His innumerable lovers, living entities, they are also individual persons. Love means there is person, individual. Without individual person, there is no question of love. When I, when the word "love" is used, there must be two lovers. Then the word is applicable, love. If there is no person, love is not with the air. There must be person. So the Supreme Lord is person, and the lovers, the living entities, they are also persons. They forget who is God, who is not God, but the central focus is in Kṛṣṇa. Everyone loves Kṛṣṇa. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa they are mad. This is the position in the spiritual world. Simply love Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Bhuñje sevā-sukha. And by loving, as we have got a little perverted experience of love affairs, so just imagine when that love is pure and true, how much pleasure there is. So that thing is there in the spiritual world, pure love. And object is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are so much in bliss... That is bliss. That is bliss, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], eternal love with knowledge that "Here is Kṛṣṇa," and ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is perfect stage, lovable object eternal, lover eternal, with knowledge, with eternal life. That is there. In the spiritual world this is going on. They're all in bliss.

*Now, so far we are concerned, the conditioned soul, 'nitya-bandha'*-kṛṣṇa haite nitya-bahirmukha: our business is to hate Kṛṣṇa, that's all. "What is God? Huh! God. The foolish people are assembled speaking of God." Nitya. They are... Naturally, they are haters of God in this conditioned life. Just the opposite. In the spiritual world, they are by nature... By nature, we are lover of God, but here, being illusioned, we think God as our enemy and we don't like God. We like this māyā. So

*'nitya-bandha'*-kṛṣṇa haite nitya-bahirmukha

*'nitya*-saṁsāra', bhuñje narakādi duḥkha



Therefore because they have forgotten Kṛṣṇa and they are averse to Kṛṣṇa, therefore the result is that perpetually they are entangled in this material world, in the pangs... Material world means threefold miseries. Plus... So long... What is word? Principally we have got fourfold changing: birth, death, old age and disease. And these fourfold changes are always mixed with threefold miseries. So it is sevenfold miserable condition, and those who are in ignorance, they do not understand this miserable condition. They think, "We are all right." And when the sense comes that "We are not all right; *we are in miserable condition," that is the, I mean to say, state of inquiries about Brahman. That is called brahma*-jijñāsā.



*So generally people are so much ignorant that they cannot understand their miserable condition. This is called saṁsāra. Saṁsāra means entanglement in these miserable conditions of material existence. And bhuñje narakādi duḥkha. By miserable condition we want to compensate this miserable condition. But due to our ignorance we become more and more miserable and, narakādi*-duḥkha, the hellish life. Nānā yoni brahman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare, tāra janma adho pāte yāya. We are circumambulating various types of species of life and eating all sorts of nasty things, and this is the condition of material existence. Narakādi duḥkha. Narakādi duḥkha means hellish condition. But we do not understand. This is our ignorance. Hellish condition.

*sei doṣe māyā*-piśāci daṇḍa kare tāre

*ādhyātmikādi tāpa*-traya tāre jāri' māre



*So on account of this ignorance we are under the control of this material nature. Actually, due to our forgetfulness, due to our averseness to Kṛṣṇa, we are under the condition of this material nature. This is the sum and substance: due to our averseness. We don't like. Sei doṣe māyā*-piśāci daṇḍa kare tāre. Daṇḍa kare tāre means "give him punishment." You have not seen... Perhaps... You had been in India. You have seen the Devī picture, picture of Goddess Durgā. She has got a..., what is called? Trisura, like this. Trident? Yes. This trident, she has got in her hand a trident. And a asura, a demonic person, is struggling with lion, and the goddess is piercing that trident on the chest of that demon. This figure is there. That is called Durgā. Have you seen that picture? That one lion has attacked that demon, and the lion is the carrier of Devī, Goddess Durgā. She rides on lion. Just like we ride on horse, Devī, she rides on lion. And the lion has attacked that demon. And demon is also very strong, fighting with the lion, and the mother, Goddess Durgā, she has caught the demon by the hair and piercing the trident on the chest, and the lion has attacked. So this is our position. We are thinking like the demon. Now, this lion is the symbol of rajo-guṇa. Rajo-guṇa. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Rajo-guṇa means we are full of lust and anger. When there is excess of rajo-guṇa, then we are full of lust and anger. And when there is sattva-guṇa, then there is knowledge. And when there is tamo-guṇa, neither anger nor lust nor knowledge, simply just like the Bowery Road. You see? Lying down on the street. This is the sign of ignorance, tamo-guṇa, yes. So this is going on.



*So the demons... Demons means their characteristic: to challenge the existence of God. And therefore this prakṛti, nature, is piercing, the trident. The trident means threefold miseries: miseries pertaining to the body, pertaining to the mind... Just like yesterday night you had some trouble due to the body. So sometimes mind: "Oh, today I am not very good mood. There is something wrong." The body is all right, but the mind is not all right. This is called ādhyātmika. Then adhibhautika. Adhibhautika means miseries offered by other living entities. Just like at night, bedbugs. (laughter) (laughs) So, very nice situation, whole night there is no sleep. Why? Now there is adhibhautika. Adhibhautika. Or some enemy. This is... There are... These are all miseries, but we forget. And adhidaivika. Adhidaivika. Just like heavy snowfall, severe cold, severe heat, earthquake, famine, war. These are adhidaivika, forced by you by superior power. Nobody wants war, but it is forced. These are called adhidaivika miseries. So three kinds. Here it is stated, ādhyātmikādi tapa*-traya tāre. So we are under the control of this material nature, and that trident is pierced on my chest. How can I understand? Now this trident I am experiencing every moment. These three kinds of miseries are there. Either this or that or three or two or one-must be there. Must be there. So those who are, I mean to say, enlightened, they can understand that we are miserable. We are in a miserable condition. And those who are not enlightened, in ignorance, they think, "Oh, this is all right. Don't care for it."

But actually we are in miserable condition.

*kāma*-krodhera dāsa hañā tāra lāthi khāya

*bhramite bhramite yadi sādhu*-vaidya pāya



*Very nice. In this way we are being kicked up. The freedom of football. The football is kicked from this party and thrown to the other party. The other party kicks and it comes. The football thinks... If the football thinks that "I am in freedom movement," so what is that freedom? Kicked from this party to that party and that... So here the same thing is said, kāma-krodhera dāsa hañā tāra lāthi khāya. Just like the football players*-the football is under the kicking method of two parties-similarly, we are under the kicking method of two things, lust and anger. We are lusty, and when our lust is not fulfilled, then we become kicked by anger. Two things. Just like the football is kicked by this party and that party, similarly, our position is we are being kicked sometimes by lust and sometimes by anger. So we are going on leading our life in this way.



*kāma*-krodhera dāsa hañā tāra lāthi khāya

*bhramite bhramite yadi sādhu*-saṅga pāya



Now, in this way we are passing our life, but if by chance we get association of a saintly person...



*tāṅra upadeśa*-mantre piśāci palāya

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakti pāya, tabe kṛṣṇa-nikaṭa yāya



*If by chance we get association of a pure devotee, then by his mercy this illusion becomes over. Tāṅra upadeśa, by his instructions. Sādhu*-saṅga means tasmād satsu sajjeta buddhimān. Therefore it is advised that everyone should seek association of saintly persons. And by saintly person's instruction, this ghost of ignorance will be removed. Tāṅra mantre. Just like you have seen ghostly haunted persons? In India there are so many cases. So there are chanter also. What is called, enchanter or...? Those who are, if he can make treatment a ghostly...



Devotees: Magician? Medium?



Prabhupāda: Not magician.



Devotee: Medium.



Prabhupāda: Not medium. Enchanter I think you call.



Devotee: A sorcerer.



*Prabhupāda: A sorcerer, yes. So they chant some hymns and the ghosts go away. Similarly, if we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, then the ghost of māyā by which we are being kicked from this side to that side, that will be over. Tāṅra mantre. If the instruction is received from a saintly person, sādhu, then this illusion of being kicked up from this side to that side by lust and anger under the spell of this material energy will be over. Tāṅra upadeśa*-mantre piśāci palāya.



*Then? What is next? Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti pāya, tabe kṛṣṇa-nikaṭa yāya. Then his beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there. Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins from there. If by chance, in this way... Just like the football is being kicked. Some way or other, if he goes out of the line the kicking is stopped. Similarly, we also, if we get the shelter and association of a bona fide saintly person, then this business of being kicked by lust and anger is stopped by his instruction, by his advice. Santa chindanti asya mano-vyāsaṅgam ukti. The whole trouble is in the mind. Mind. Just like there is a knot. So knot is to be cut or it is to be opened. So this mental knot with this material attraction is cut by the instruction of saintly persons. The cutting weapon is instruction. Therefore one should take advantage of the instruction of saintly persons so that the knot of material attachment may be cut and the Kṛṣṇa consciousness may begin, so that his path of liberation is open.

Thank you very much. (end)



670110CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.14-20

-

New York, January 10, 1967



Prabhupāda:



*kāma*-krodhera dāsa hañā tāra lāthi khāya

*bhramite bhramite yadi sādhu*-vaidya pāya



*So we, the conditioned soul, is just like being kicked up by the material energy from this way to that way. That is our position. And the kicking is by lust and anger. Icchā*-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. We have got two things here in the conditioned life. We desire something, and if the desire is not fulfilled, then we become angry. So in this way we are traveling, or, I mean to say, transmigrating from one body to another. This can be stopped. This process can be stopped. How? Bhramite bhramite yadi sādhu-vaidya pāya. In this way we are being kicked up by māyā. But if by chance we get the shelter of a good physician... Good physician means a bona fide spiritual master. Then, by his advice, just like a patient is cured by following the instruction of a bona fide physician, similarly, this disease of being kicked up from one body to another, this could be stopped by the instruction of a bona fide sādhu, saintly person, or spiritual master or śāstra, scripture. So the scriptures and the saintly persons and the spiritual master, they are on the same level. Because a sādhu who is a saintly person, he would not place anything which is not sanctioned by the scripture. Similarly, a bona fide spiritual master means he is following the footprints of the previous ācāryas. Therefore he is bona fide. So scripture is the medium through which we have to get our experience and knowledge through the explanation of sādhu, saintly persons and spiritual master.



*So there is a very nice verse quoted from Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās

teṣāṁ jātā mayi na karuṇā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ

*utsṛjyaitān atha yadu*-pate sāmprataṁ labdha-buddhis

*tvām āyātaḥ śaraṇam abhayaṁ māṁ niyuṅkṣvātma*-dāsye



A devotee is praying to the Lord that "My dear Lord, I have experienced that I came to enjoy this material world, but actually I am being kicked up." "By whom you are kicked up?" Kāmādīnām. Kāma, krodha, lobha. There are six good friends. We have accepted them as good friends, but they are not good friends. What are they? The lust and the anger and the avarice and greediness. So many things. So to serve the material world... To enjoy the material world, not serve. We don't wish to serve; we want to enjoy. But actually we become servants of all these principles, kāma, krodha, lobha, bhaya. We are servant of fearfulness, we are servant of malice, we are servant of lust, we are servant of anger, although we are thinking that "I am master." So one who has come to the senses that "I am acting here as servant... I'm servant of my society, I am servant of my family, I am servant of my senses, I am servant of my..." So many things I have created. Up to death I am servant of dog, I'm servant of cat, and so many things I have become servant. But I am thinking, "I am master." This is called māyā. So one who comes to the senses, he can understand that "I am not master; *I am servant because I am constitutionally servant. I am subservient to the Supreme. I am expansion of Kṛṣṇa." Why? Because Kṛṣṇa meant that there would be so many expansions and "They would like to love Me, and I'll be enjoyer." Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). Suppose I keep some friends. Suppose I create some disciples. What is the idea? The idea is that we shall enjoy reciprocally. My disciples and we shall talk about Kṛṣṇa, and we shall eat together and we shall chant together. This is the idea. Now if some of the disciples become overrule, then it becomes a very precarious condition for me. Similarly, God expanded Himself as the living entities for enjoyment, reciprocal, not that God's own enjoyment. When there is question of enjoyment, all the parties who participate in a particular type of enjoyment, they enjoy. So the perfection of enjoyment-when God desired that "I should expand Myself so that I can enjoy." So His enjoyment is not deficient, but if we want not to enjoy with God but we want to enjoy in a different way, that is my misfortune.



*So originally, as Lord Caitanya has explained in the very beginning, you may remember, that the constitutional position of the living entity is to serve. This point we have explained several times. So we cannot change that position. If you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, then you have to serve māyā. That position is there. So here in this material world we are rendering service to these*-kāma, krodha, lobha. We are servant of lust, we are servant of anger, we are servant of avarice, we are servant of so many things. So kāmādīnāṁ katidhā na katidhā. And servant, when one becomes servant, he has to execute anything which the masters order. Suppose one is serving some big man, he says that "You do this. I want." Now, to satisfy him one has to act according to his desire, which he may not like. Suppose one says that "You go and tell this lie. It is required by me." Now, because I am in service... Even great personalities like Bhīṣma, such a great personality, he could not join with the Pāṇḍava's party because he became a servant of the Kurus. So servitude is such a thing. A servant means a dog's qualification. In the Bhāgavata it is stated that... Because the higher caste... The caste system, higher means the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they'll never become servant of anyone. Therefore they are higher. The śūdras, they accept service of others. So that was the stricture. And in the śāstra the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas, the higher castes, and the vaiśyas, they would never serve. Now there is injunction in the Bhāgavata: if a brāhmaṇa is in trouble he can become, he can take the profession of a vaiśya, but never take the profession of a dog. They never serve. Because as soon as one becomes servant, his independence is lost. So our independence... We can keep only our independence when we become servant of God, because there is no injustice.

So here it is said that kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās. Durnideśāḥ. Of course, you are my master, that's all right; *whatever you order, I have to carry out. But sometimes the master orders that "You do this," which I should not do. We have got practical experience in our life. Sometimes we do something which is not to be done, but being carried away by lust we do so many nonsense things. So we are servant of this lust and anger. So one who is in sense, he says like this, that "I have served this kāma, krodha, but the result is that they are not satisfied." This material world, if you go on serving anyone and if you ask the master, "Are you well served?" he'll never say that "I am." Rather, even a master is satisfied, he will not frankly say, "No, I am satisfied." This is the nature. So the devotee says, "Now, because I see that I have to serve only, so I have given up the service of this māyā. I have given up the service of māyā." Utsṛjyaitān. "Utsṛjya, the service of māyā I have now given up." Then what you want to do? Utsṛjyaitān atha yadu*-pate sāmprataṁ labdha-buddhiḥ. "Now, just presently I am little bit intelligent." "What is that? You are resigning your service?" "Yes." "Oh, that is not very good intelligence. How you'll provide yourself? No." "Yes." Tvām āyā: "I have come to You, my Lord." Tvām āyātaḥ: "I have approached You because You are śaraṇam abhayam, You are a perfect master. There is no fear of my being dismissed." Śaraṇam abhayaṁ tvām āyātaḥ māṁ niyuṅkṣvātma-dāsye: "Now please give me an appointment in Your service." This is the perfection of service. We have to give up the service of the māyā and take an appointment from Kṛṣṇa. Then that is our perfection. The service is there; *just change the account. Just change the account from this service to that service. If you want to dominate, if you want to exploit the resources of nature*-that is materialism or material civilization-then you become more and more servant of nature. But if you give up all these propensities and just submit, surrender to Kṛṣṇa and take an appointment from Kṛṣṇa, then you'll be happy. This is the position.

*So, sādhu*-vaidya, sādhu, saintly person, or a spiritual master or the scripture, what do they advise? As it has been stated, by the instruction of saintly person, by the instruction of spiritual master, one gets out of this kicking problem. And what is that instruction? The instruction is very simple: that you give up the service of this sense gratification. You just engage yourself to the service of Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You simply change the consciousness. Now your consciousness is absorbed in varieties of sense gratification. You stop this. You just apply your senses unto the service of the Supreme Lord. This is called devotional service, bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is simple process. Just we have to change. The activities are the same. Bhakti means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hṛṣīka means senses, and hṛṣīkeśa means Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is the master of your senses. Just like actually... Suppose this house. So we are now occupying this house. We are supposed to be the master of this house, but actually we are not the master of the house. The master is the landlord. But again, if you go further, the landlord is also not actually master. The master is the state. The supreme master is God. So we have to take shelter of the supreme master.

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakti haya abhidheya-pradhāna

*bhakti*-mukha-nirīkṣaka karma-yoga-jñāna



*Now, there are different process of self*-realization. Just like fruitive activities, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga. So many, there are different... But they are simply steps. They are not themselves final. One who is unable to engage himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for them these different steps are prescribed, not for the person who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because if he... If one does not engage himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he may not like for so many reasons: for social reason, for political reason, for religious reason, for many other reasons. Although we find that it is very nice process, but still, there are some impediments which restrict us not to follow this principle. Now, one who cannot follow this principle, for them these different process are prescribed so that some day in the future he can have this opportunity of becoming a servant of Kṛṣṇa. Because that is the final goal.



*So here Lord Caitanya says that kṛṣṇa*-bhakti haya abhidheya-pradhāna. For self-realization, if you want to realize yourself or if you want to get out of these material clutches, then the main function is to become in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be engaged in the service of the Lord directly. And bhakti-mukha-nirīkṣaka karma-yoga-jñāna. And other processes, they're also admitted, but they are dependent on this process. That means if by karma-yoga, when you acquire knowledge, then that is another step forward. Then by jñāna-yoga, when you are able to meditate, by jñāna-yoga you can understand the Supersoul and your soul. And when you understand also that by the individual soul the Supersoul has to be seen by meditation or focus, that is called dhyāna-yoga. Then when you understand Supersoul, then go further. You can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Anyway, all these processes... Yoga means just like a staircase. You cover the staircases under certain rules and regulation, but the highest top, topmost place, is that Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ultimately you have to reach that point. So any other process, that is dependent on the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is direct method. It is not dependent on any such method. A person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not require to perform dhyāna-yoga or haṭha-yoga or karma-yoga or jñāna-yoga. Automatically, everything will come out. Just like if you get ten thousand dollar, then your business for one thousand dollar is automatically served. But if you have got one thousand dollar, the business of ten thousand dollars cannot be served. So kṛṣṇa-bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is full. Lord Caitanya therefore said, kṛṣṇa-bhakti haya abhidheya-pradhāna. Amongst all other processes for self-realization, this is the chief. Bhakti-mukha-nirīkṣaka karma-yoga-jñāna. And other processes, just like karma-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, they are dependent on Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

ei saba sādhanera ati tuccha bala

*kṛṣṇa*-bhakti vinā tāhā dite nāre phala



*Now, it is clearly explained that if you simply prosecute the other system of yoga, then you'll never be able to reach to the final goal. Therefore it is tenth leg. Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti vinā, unless you add to it Kṛṣṇa-bhakti... Plus... Karma-yoga means karma, your working capacity, plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness; your speculative capacity plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness; your meditating capacity plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When you make a plus, then it becomes successful. Kṛṣṇa consciousness minus karma or Kṛṣṇa consciousness minus knowledge, that will never be able to give you the desired result.



*Now He's quoting one passage from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam (sings verse):

*naiṣkarmyam apy acyuta*-bhāva-varjitaṁ

na śobhate jñānam amala alam...



*naiṣkarmyam apy acyuta*-bhāva-varjitaṁ

na śobhate jñānam alaṁ nirañjanam

kutaḥ punaḥ śaśvad abhadram īśvare

na cārpitaṁ karma yad apy akāraṇam



*Now, the Bhāgavata instructs that even a person in high status of knowledge cannot get success without being taken shelter of acyuta*-bhāva. Acyuta. Acyuta means Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Acyuta. So Acyutānanda means one who takes pleasure in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's name is Acyuta. Acyuta means infallible, who never falls. That is the difference between... Kṛṣṇa is Brahman. We are also Brahman, but we are not acyuta. We are cyuta. Cyuta means falling down. We have got the tendency of falling down. Kṛṣṇa never falls down; *therefore His name is Acyuta. So acyuta*-bhāva-varjitaṁ jñānam amalam. If you go on speculating on knowledge, but if that knowledge is minus Kṛṣṇa, then na śobhate. It will... It is not very nice thing because it will not give you the desired result. So Bhāgavata says even a man advanced in knowledge, he cannot get the desired result without acyuta-bhāva. Acyuta-bhāva means... Acyuta means Kṛṣṇa, and bhāva means His relationship, sentiment. Bhāva actually means sentiment, Kṛṣṇa sentiment. Kṛṣṇa sentiment means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, if a person in advanced knowledge, he cannot get the desired result, then what to speak of others who are hovering on these material activities? So material activities, if you want to make success of your any activity, then make it plus Kṛṣṇa, plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it will be all perfect. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not prohibit anybody to..., for his particular occupation. They simply ask and request all that you make it plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your success is guaranteed. If you make it plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness... That is required.



Then another quotation is,

*tapasvino dāna*-parā yaśasvino

*manasvino mantra*-vidaḥ sumaṅgalāḥ

*kṣemaṁ na vindanti vinā yad*-arpaṇaṁ

tasmai subhadra-śravase namo namaḥ



*Tapasvinaḥ. There are many ascetics taking severe penance for perfection, tapasvinaḥ. Tapasvino dāna*-parā. Dāna-parā means there are many persons who are munificent, making charity, dāna-parā. And yaśasvinaḥ: there are many persons who are very famous. Tapasvino dāna-parā yaśa..., manasvinaḥ. Manasvinaḥ means mental speculators, philosophers, thinking, high thinkers, great thinkers. So these are worldly, great men. Who? One who performs great penance, one who is very charitably disposed, one who is very famous, one who is very mentally advanced, he can think nice things, writes philosophical thesis, write nice poetry. Manasvinaḥ. These are the products of great mind. Manasvino mantra-vidaḥ. Mantra-vidaḥ means the chanters of Vedic hymns. Mantra-vidaḥ sumaṅgalāḥ. These things are all nice, auspicious. These things are all... But kṣemaṁ na vindanti vinā yad-arpaṇam. But these things cannot... By these things you cannot alone have success unless it is not offered to the Supreme Lord. Your good qualification should be engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. Then you get the desired result. And our Howard's mother has written very nicely that if you talk of Kṛṣṇa, then you enjoy yourself, and you give enjoyment to many others. And if you talk of man (mammon?), then you can create some, I mean to say... What is the exact word she has used? Noise. You can create some noise for some time.



*So if you are a good writer, if you are a good thinker, then just think of Kṛṣṇa and write. Then it will please you and it will please all others. Our Back to Godhead is for that purpose. And if you write some fiction, you can please some men and create some noise for some time in the world, but it will be useless after some time. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Five thousand years before it was written; *it is still giving light. It is because it is Kṛṣṇa-kathā. And within your experience, so many nice novelists and poets came and gone. Nobody cares for them. So you can create noise. Very nice word she has used-I'm very pleased*-that by writing such things you can create a noise in the world for some time, but it will mix in the..., it will go in the oblivion. So everything should be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the perfection of everything.

Thank you very much. (end)



670111CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.21-28

-

New York, January 11, 1967



Prabhupāda:



kevala jñāna 'mukti' dite nāre bhakti vine

kṛṣṇonmukhe sei mukti haya jñāna vinā



Mukti, liberation... The impersonalists think that simply by cultivating knowledge that "I am not matter; I am spirit," or "I am one with the Supreme Spirit; *I am now... Out of ignorance, I am thinking different, but when I am fully elevated to the platform of knowledge, then I become liberated." But the..., there is no answer that "Why you have become conditioned?" The impersonalists think that "I am one with the Supreme. Now, due to my ignorance, I have forgotten that I am the Supreme." Because they do not recognize the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so they think that impersonal conception of the spirit soul: "I am now... Out of ignorance, I am thinking matter, but as soon as my ignorance is over, I shall become one with the Supreme." So this is the theory of the impersonalists. But they... They cannot give any answer that "Why you have become under the influence of ignorance? If you are the Supreme, then what is the cause that you have become conditioned? Then the Supreme will become conditioned under the material nature. Then how one can become the Supreme? Supreme cannot be conditioned." So there is no answer for this question from the impersonalists' school. But real fact is that the Supreme never falls down. The part and parcel of the Supreme, they fall down*-some of them; not all. So therefore the living entities, they are different from the Supreme. They are one in quality with the Supreme, but not in quantity.



So Lord Caitanya says that "Simply by thinking that 'I am not this matter; *I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am Brahman,' that will not help you to get liberation." The real fact is that the individual living entities, they are part and parcel of the Supreme, but somehow or other, they wanted separation from the Supreme and wanted to lord it over the material nature. Therefore they are entangled. That is the real fact. And as such, we find from the Bhagavad*-gītā, the Lord asked that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Just surrender." So therefore, unless there is surrender of the individual soul to the Supreme, there is no question of liberation. There is no question of liberation. You can cultivate knowledge that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," but that will not help for your liberation. Because real thing is that you have or we have rebelled against the supremacy of the Supreme Lord. That is the attitude, everywhere we can see actually. Everyone is: "Oh, what is God? What is God?" especially in this age. So this impersonalism is another type of atheism, and this impersonal theory of the Absolute Truth has converted practically the major portion of the world into atheism. So therefore Lord Caitanya says that simply by cultivation of knowledge that "I am not this matter. I am not this matter. I am spirit soul," that will not help.

*Now He gives again evidence from scriptures. Every step, whatever He says, He gives some evidence from authoritative scripture. Mostly He gives evidence from Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because for the Vaiṣṇava school these two books are sufficient for acquiring knowledge. So far Vedānta-sūtra is concerned, Bhāgavata is Vedānta-sūtra itself. Bhāgavata is the natural commentary on the, on the Vedānta-sūtra. Therefore one who has sufficient knowledge in Bhāgavata, he has automatically sufficient knowledge in Vedānta-sūtra. According to Vedic system, one must have sufficient knowledge in Vedānta-sūtra. Then he'll be considered as learned in spiritual science. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, although the Vaiṣṇavas, they have got their commentaries on Vedānta-sūtra, but this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya, they did not make any commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra because they belonged to the disciplic succession of Vyāsadeva. So Vyāsadeva is the spiritual master. So the later ācāryas, they did not think it proper that whatever the... Because their spiritual master has had already made a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra, "Oh, that is sufficient. Why should we do again?" These are some of the etiquette. Anyway, the Vedānta-sūtra... And Bhāgavata is natural commentary on Vedānta-sūtra, and Lord Caitanya therefore gives evidence from the Bhāgavata generally and Purāṇas also, and Mahābhārata and every, I mean to say, Upaniṣad. They are all authorities. But especially He gives evidences from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now, so far, in confirmation of this statement that knowledge, cultivation of knowledge, is not sufficient to give one liberation*-one must take to devotional service. Devotional service past knowledge is just like gold with flavor. Yes. So, of course, those who are engaged in devotional service, their knowledge automatically comes. They are not fools. Those who are actually, seriously in devotional service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they will not lack in knowledge because you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that the Lord says that,

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



Those who are engaged in transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa, for them knowledge automatically comes from within because Kṛṣṇa is within us. So a sincere soul in Kṛṣṇa consciousness will not lack in knowledge. And in the Vedic literature also it is confirmed:



yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]



The Vedic knowledge, revelation, to whom it is revealed? It is revealed to a person who has unflinching faith and love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead as well as to the spiritual master. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau. As much he has got faith in the Supreme, similarly he has faith in the spiritual master. Such a person gets revelation of the Vedic knowledge from within. So those who are actually serious in engaging themselves in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service, for them knowledge is secondary. Knowledge automatically revealed to them. And those who do not take to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service, simply indulge in dry speculation, for them liberation is not possible. Not possible.



*So Lord Caitanya gives one evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam from Tenth Canto:

*śreyaḥ*-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho

*kliśyanti ye kevala*-bodha-labdhaye

teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate

*nānyad yathā sthūla*-tuṣāvaghātinām



*Real knowledge means to understand the last word of the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and surrender unto Him, after knowledge. As it is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births, one who is actually in knowledge, he surrenders." So Śrīmad-Bhāgavata practically confirms the same, that śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho. Any person who does not take to the devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simply indulge in dry speculation, kliśyanti, takes trouble... Kliśyanti means "takes trouble"; *ye, "persons." Kevala-bodha-lab..., simply to understand that "This is not matter, this is not spirit, this is not...," like that, and that there is no separate Supersoul, only one soul is there, and this conception of individual soul is misunderstanding, ignorance*-in this way, there are volumes of books of, by Śaṅkarācārya especially, and later on, his disciples. They are very, very learned scholars, undoubtedly. By their scholastic jugglery they want to cover the Supreme Personality of God. They do not want to cover; *they think that they are advanced. But Kṛṣṇa covers Himself so that they may not understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not want. Kṛṣṇa wants that one should surrender and take to devotional service. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ: [Bg. 7.25] "I do not reveal Myself to everyone, one and all. No. I cover Myself." So these impersonalists, due to their, I mean to say, less intelligence, or misfortune, they cannot see Kṛṣṇa. So therefore, for them this remark is here that śreyaḥ-sṛtim, that "Actually what is auspicious, devotional service, if somebody gives that path away and takes to simply dry speculation, simply to understand..." Because jñāna means to understand what is the difference between matter and spirit. So they, of course, indulge in that process of knowledge. But simply by that speculation the result is that teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate. The trouble which they accept for discriminating matter from spirit... There is trouble. You have to see so many Vedic literatures, and you have to understand the instruction of Upaniṣads and logic, and so many things there are to, I mean to say, back your understanding. So teṣām kleśala eva... Their, their profit is that the trouble which they accept for studying so many Vedic literatures to prove that the Absolute Truth is not person, that trouble is their profit and nothing more. Kleśala eva, teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate: "They do not get any other profit except that troublesome business." That's all. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate. How it is? The example is, nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām: "Just like husking the grain to take out the skin." Now, there are many grains which are skin over. So there is process of taking out the skin out of the grain. So if the grain is already taken out, only the skins are left. Then, if you husk on it and beat to get out the grains, so there is no possibility to get any grains from them because the grain is already taken out. So that is the trouble. Simply, I mean, beating the skin is no good. We must have some concrete result. That concrete result is one who is directly engaged in the transcendental service, loving service of the Supreme Lord. That is recommended.



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*So the same thing is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter, that the Lord says that... This is also another influence of māyā, illusion. Just like under the spell of illusion we are thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am king," "I am big man," "I am poor man"-so many we have got*-and this is all due to this body, bodily conception. It has no actual standing. It is all..., they are all designations. Similarly, the last snare of māyā is to, I mean to say, induce one to think that "I am God." Just like we are under the spell of illusion. We are thinking, "I am this and that, this and that." So after many, many years' cultivation of knowledge, if one comes to the conclusion that "I am God. There is no other second God. I am God," so that is also another spell of illusion. So the Bhagavad-gītā says that daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. One is trying to get out of the clutches of the illusory energy, but it is very difficult. Up to the last point the māyā, illusion, will offer you something so that she will baffle your endeavor to get out of her clutches. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. Then how to get out of her hands? Mām eva prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti... Only process is just you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, and māyā will not any more interfere with your business.



So therefore surrender is the only process by which you can get out of the clutches of māyā.

*'kṛṣṇa*-nitya-dāsa'-jīva tāhā bhuli' gela

ei doṣe māyā tāra galāya bāndhila



*Just like we become..., sometimes we take a pet dog with shackles on the neck, similarly we are under the spell..., we are pet dogs of the illusory energy, with shackles. You see? So why? Now, 'kṛṣṇa*-nitya-dāsa'-jīva tāhā bhuli' gela: "That the living entity is eternally servitor of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, that he has forgotten." That he has forgotten. Therefore... [break] ...galāya bāndhila. Just like the dog is shackled on the..., we are in that way shackled.



tāte kṛṣṇa bhaje, kare gurura sevana

*māyā*-jāla chuṭe, pāya kṛṣṇera caraṇa



*Therefore, if one agrees to serve Kṛṣṇa under the direction of spiritual master, follows the instruction of spiritual master, and engages himself in the service of the Supreme Lord, māyā*-jāla chuṭe, pāya kṛṣṇera caraṇa, then he can get out of this network of illusory energy and pāya kṛṣṇera caraṇa, and he can get the shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa.



cāri varṇāśramī yadi kṛṣṇa nāhi bhaje

svakarma karite se raurave paḍi' maje



Cāri varṇa. Cāri varṇa means four castes, four division of human society: the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriya, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. They have got their specific duties. One who is brāhmaṇa, he has got his specific duty. Culture, cultivation of knowledge is their first and foremost duty. Similarly, kṣatriya, he has got his specific duty. The fore and foremost is to establish good administration in the state. And vaiśya, he has got also specific duty. What is that? Cow protection and agriculture. That is the duty of vaiśya. And the śūdras, they have no responsibility. Therefore they serve these three higher class: the intelligent class, engaged in cultivation of knowledge; the administrator class, who are engaged in good government; *and the mercantile, class who are looking to the productive side of the society. So this is natural. There is no denying the fact. In every society there is a natural division. A certain class of men, they are intelligent class, a certain class of men, they are, take part in politics, and a certain class of men, they delight in doing business. And there are certain classes*-they do not do anything; simply by serving, they maintain themselves. So these four classes are there.



So according to Vedic civilization, these four classes are also recommended to serve the Supreme Lord, Supreme Lord. With their professional occupation, they want, they have to, they have to serve the Supreme Lord. That is the injunction of the Vedic literatures.

cāri varṇāśramī yadi kṛṣṇa nāhi bhaje

svakarma karite se raurave paḍi' maje



Therefore Lord Caitanya says that suppose an intelligent brāhmaṇa, he's very learned scholar and great philosopher, big thinker... Everything is all right. But he has no relationship in the matter of rendering service to the Supreme Lord. That is minus. That means learned scholar minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Similarly, a learned politician, able administrator, minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Similarly, a successful businessman minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Or the śūdras... Anyone, if he is minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the result is that svakarma karite se raurave paḍi' maje: "By doing, by executing his specific duty, he's going to hell." Hell. It is fact. He's thinking that "I am doing my duty," but he's going to hell. So this is a version of Lord Caitanya Maha... He, even if he does his duty very nicely, still, he's going to hell. Raurave paḍi' maje. Raurave means hell.



*And again He gives evidence from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

*mukha*-bāhūru-pādebhyaḥ

puruṣasyāśramaiḥ saha

catvāro jajñire varṇā

guṇair viprādayaḥ pṛthak



ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād-

*ātma*-prabhavam īśvaram

na bhajanty avajānanti

sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata, Eleventh Canto, these two verses are there. What is that? Mukha-bāhūru-pādebhyaḥ puruṣasyāśramaiḥ saha. Now, according to Vedic conception of social life, there are four divisions of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. The four divisions of social order is the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra; *and spiritual order is the sannyāsī, vānaprastha, gṛhastha and brahmacārī. To become a brahmacārī means to make advance in spiritual life. And the social order is there, the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas. So it is called varṇāśrama*-dharma. Actually, "Hindu," there is no such word as "Hindu" religion. We don't find in the Vedic scripture. Hindu religion... This "Hindu" word is given by the Muhammadans. They, they, they generally pronounce i as h. They... So there is river in the west, western side of India. There is river, Indus, Indus River. So Indus River the Muhammadans used to call "Hindus." From "Hindus" it has come to Hindustan, "the place of the Hindus." So Hindu, Hindu religion is a modern term given by the foreigners. Actually the Indians, bhāratīya, they, their religion is varṇāśrama-dharma, religion of four castes and four spiritual orders, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The persons who follow these four orders of social status and four orders of spiritual advancement, they are called varṇāśrama. So Hindu religion is a miscalculation. Really, they are called varṇāśrama-dharma. That is the Vedic term.



Thank you very much. (end)



670115CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.27-31

-

New York, January 15, 1967



*Prabhupāda: This is a quotation from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto. It is very nicely compared with the body of the Supreme Lord and our situation in that partic..., body, in different positions. Now, this verse says that the highly intellectual class of men, they are situated on the mouth of the Supreme Lord. The intellectual persons are considered the mouth of the Supreme Lord. And the next, the administrators, or the protector class of men... Not administrators; practically protector... Kṣatriya means protector. Protector class of men, they are considered to be the arms of the Supreme Lord. And the productive class of men, they are considered as the waist of the Supreme Lord. And the laborer class of men, they are considered to be the legs of the Supreme Lord. So anyone in this society, or in this human society or material world, they must have some situation. There is some positive position of everyone in the body of the Supreme Lord.



*So this comparison means that just like our head, our arms, our waist and legs, they're all important, being constitutional parts of the body, similarly, every one of us are important in consideration, being the parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord. But the conclusion is that ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād-ātma-prabhavam īśvaram, na bhajanti. Now some of us are the arms of the Supreme Lord, some of us the mouth of the Supreme Lord*-any part of the body we are situated-but if we don't work according to our positive situation, then the result is ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād-ātma-prabhavam īśvaram. One who does not serve according to his position, then sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ, he falls down from that position, and this falldown is this material body. It is very nice example. We have got a particular position in the body of the Supreme Lord. Just consider the viśva-mūrti, the gigantic universal form of the Lord. And we are situated in different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord. So as parts and parcels of the body, we have got particular duty. If we do not accept that... Just like the hand. If it does not work, then it is in diseased condition. So patanty adhaḥ. Diseased condition means the falldown. So, so long we are not situated in the transcendental loving service of the Supreme Lord, we should consider that we are in diseased condition, paralyzed position. Just the hand, when it is paralyzed, it cannot work, it cannot serve the body, similarly, when we are detached from the service of the Supreme Lord, that is our diseased condition, and to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or to be in devotional service is our positive position. So one should try to be situated in his positive position, and being freed from this diseased condition of sense enjoyment. Just like the paralyzed hand. It is simply... It is called a hand, but it has no function to act as hand. Similarly, without transcendental loving service of the Supreme Lord, a so-called intelligent class is simply in name intelligent class. But it is not... He's actually not intelligent, because there is no function. So this is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*jñānī jīvan*-mukta-daśā pāinu kari' māne

*vastutaḥ buddhi 'śuddha' nahe kṛṣṇa*-bhakti vine



*Now, there are many speculators. After some philosophical speculation, they think, "Now I have realized that 'I am the same. I am same God. I am God.' " So this process is called jñāna system. So Lord Caitanya says that these jñānīs, they artificially think that "Now I have realized myself," but actually that is not self-realization. Self-realization is when you actually engage yourself in the service of the Lord. That is your self-realization. Because you are part and parcel, your duty is to serve the whole. If you think yourself, "I am whole," that is wrong conception. That is wrong conception. You are not whole. How you can be whole? So there are so many examples that think ourself that "I am the Supreme. I am the whole." Just the other day I was speaking to you: it is the last snare. We are not whole. We are part and parcel. Just..., just the hand in healthy condition, as part and parcel of the body, is very nice. When the hand is working in his position, that position is very nice. But when it is not working*-it is in diseased condition-do you think it is very nice? No. Paralyzed hand, simply in the name it is hand, but it has no function. So that sort of understanding, without actually reinstated in the healthy state of our spiritual life, simply thinking that "I am now spiritually realized; I am the Supreme," this is not pure. So Lord Caitanya says, vastutaḥ buddhi 'śuddha' nahe: "That sort of conception is not purified intelligence. That is still contaminated intelligence."



*Then He is giving an evidence again from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas

*tvayy asta*-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

*patanty adho 'nādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ

[SB 10.2.32]



*This is prayer to the Lord by Brahmā, who says that ye 'ravindākṣa... Kṛṣṇa is sometimes addressed as the lotus*-eyed because His eye... He's very beautiful. So anyone who has got his eyes just like petals of the lotus flower, it is considered very beautiful. So He, He's addressed, aravindākṣa, "O the lotus-eyed..." Vimukta-māninaḥ. "Those who are thinking falsely that 'I am now liberated. I have realized myself that I am the same. I am God,' " vimukta-māninaḥ tvayy asta-bhāvāt, "but he has no information of Kṛṣṇa... He's thinking artificially that he is liberated, but he has no information of Kṛṣṇa." Tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: "Therefore, although he has advanced in, to some extent in the spiritual realization path, but because he has not reached up to You, Kṛṣṇa, therefore his intelligence is not yet fully purified. He's still contaminated." In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same thing said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births, one who is actually intelligent, actually in..., wise, in knowledge, he surrenders unto Him. So those who are thinking that "I am now liberated simply by some volumes of philosophical speculation," so Bhāgavata says, "No, your intelligence is not yet purified because you have not yet approached Kṛṣṇa."



So what is the result for such persons? Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They might come to the highest position, because Brahman realization is also very high position. It is not ordinary thing, that "I am not this body. I am Brahman." This realization is not ordinary realization. It is also realized after purification of the mind. But that is also not sufficient. So āruhya kṛcchreṇa, after undergoing severe penances and philosophical research, even though he has risen up to the point of perfection, to the point of perfection, still, patanty adhaḥ, he has the chance of falling down. And that we have seen in many instances. Many sannyāsīns, they were very educated, and they have undergone severe penances, but without Kṛṣṇa realization they fall down. How they fall down? Sometimes they fall down, becomes a victim of a woman. Sometimes they fall down for this philanthropic work. Sometimes they fall down in the matter of opening hospitals. Generally they fall down by becoming a victim, victim of woman, and others, they also become victim of this material nature, become attracted by this social work. So a sannyāsī is supposed to be renounced order. He has nothing to do with this material world. Then why should he come to the social order or philanthropic order? That is his falldown. That is his falldown. He should be situated completely in spiritual order. He has nothing to do. He should simply be engaged in spiritual service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the perfection of renouncement.

*Renounce means... What is renunciation? Renunciation means paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. One is engaged in the material activities, being attracted in it, and when he loses his attraction in this material world-he is attracted by the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa*-that is renunciation. By seeing the Supreme, he rejects this. Just like sometimes we also, if we get some better type of foodstuff, then we reject inferior type of foodstuff naturally. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Because, "Oh, it tastes very nice, so let me take this, reject this." Similarly, material attraction is so long..., as long as we are not in touch with Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we are in touch with Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the result will be that we shall lose our material attraction. Those who are falling down from Kṛṣṇa consciousness again to the material attraction, that means they are not serious about advancing in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not ordinary thing. It is very easy. At the same time very, I mean, difficult also. Those who are not attracted by the Kṛṣṇa conscious activities, there is every chance of falling down again in the... Because he has no other alternative. Either he has to serve this way or serve that way. If he is not attracted to serve in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has to serve in material consciousness. So those who are not fixed up in Kṛṣṇa, however he may be advanced in spiritual realization, that, there is falldown. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Again falls down.

*kṛṣṇa*-sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra



*Kṛṣṇa*-sūrya-sama. If you are actually in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is full light, full light. Everything will be seen in its pure perspective. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to know everything as it is. Nothing will be falsely represented to a person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He knows everything. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he gets knowledge, what is what. So kṛṣṇa-sūrya-sama. Just like in the sunlight. During night, in darkness, we cannot understand what is what. Suppose in darkness, at night, you go up to the roof of the house and you want to see where is your home. You cannot ascertain. But in the light, when the sun is up, you can see: "Oh, that direction is my house." Similarly, as in the sunlight everything becomes clear for our seeing, similarly, in touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness everything becomes clear, what it is. So for a Kṛṣṇa consciousness person, these material activities appear to be merely false. Not false, but temporary. But he is eternal. Every living entity is eternal. He's interested with eternal happiness. He's not interested, I mean to say, temporary happiness.



So this is the process of understanding.

*kṛṣṇa*-sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra,

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra



Just like when, wherever there is sunlight, there cannot be darkness. That is a fact. You cannot say, "Oh, sunlight and darkness, simultaneously they are existing." No. Actually in the open sunlight there cannot be any darkness. Similarly, as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there cannot be any darkness for understanding what is, this material world is. That means the more you make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the more you understand the nature of this material world.



Thank you very much. Any questions? I have finished little earlier to ask you. (end)



670116CC.NY

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.31-33

-

New York, January 16, 1967



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the original sun; therefore wherever Kṛṣṇa is present there cannot be any ignorance or illusion. Darkness is compared with ignorance, illusion, sleeping, laziness, intoxication, madness; these are all darkness. One who is in the quality of darkness, these things will be visible in his person: too much sleepy, lazy, ignorant. Just opposite, the opposite number of knowledge. So these are called darkness. So if actually one is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these qualities will be not visible in his person. This is a test of progressing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*kṛṣṇa*-sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa, tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra



*Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa: wherever Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can be present in His various potencies. He can be present by His name only. Just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa*-He is present, because His name is not different from Him. That is the absolute sense. In relative sense... Suppose somebody calling me in my apartment, "Swamijī." Swamijī is here. The response cannot be. Just like in telephone. Yesterday Raymond was calling us by phone three thousand miles away. As soon as we took the, I mean to say, hanger, we could immediately hear him. If by material ways we can be touch in so swiftly, just see how much spiritual potency has Kṛṣṇa. Although He's not present before us, He can be present in so many ways. He can be present by His name. Otherwise, all these great ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, would not have bothered themselves simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. There is actually presence of Kṛṣṇa. If you take any material thing... Suppose a very nice thing, a rose flower. "Rose flower, rose flower, rose flower"-how long you can chant "rose flower"? Say thrice, four times, ten times, twenty times. Any more, you'll become disgusted. This is the test. But Hare Kṛṣṇa you can chant twenty-four hours, you'll not feel tired. That is the test of absolute and relative.



*So relative name and absolute name. Kṛṣṇa, if you always keep Kṛṣṇa in your presence, then where is the possibility of ignorance and delusion? No, there is no possibility. And this is the shortcut way of keeping Kṛṣṇa always with you on your tongue*-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma... And if you are rigidly in this chanting process, you must understand that Kṛṣṇa is with you and there is no danger, there is no illusion, there is no māyā. Kṛṣṇa can be present by His fame. Just like we read something, we discuss something about Kṛṣṇa's activities-"Oh, He was present in the Battle of Kurukṣetra. He became the charioteer and He delivered the lectures on Bhagavad..." These discussions, that is also presence of Kṛṣṇa. Then His pastimes. Just like His līlā in Vṛndāvana or with any other devotees. There are many līlās. Then Kṛṣṇa's associates, those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa. If you speak about them, that is also a presence of Kṛṣṇa. If you talk about Nārada Muni, if you talk about Vyāsa Muni, if you talk of Lord Caitanya, if you talk Rūpa Gosvāmī-those who are, I mean to say, unalloyed devotees of Kṛṣṇa-if you discuss about them, then Kṛṣṇa is there. He is present by His name, He is present by His fame, He is present by His pastime, He is present by His associates. Anything in Kṛṣṇa connection, that makes Kṛṣṇa present in that spot. This is actual fact. One has to realize it, that's all.

*So we may not... Just like the sun is so many millions miles away but he is..., sun can be present before us by his sunshine, his potency, sun's potency, energy. Similarly, these are all Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energies, and He is compared with the sun because He is the original sun. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. From the spiritual planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana, the glowing effulgence, brahmajyoti, is coming out. How it is coming out? That we can very easily understand. As the sunshine is coming out, emanating incessantly from the sun disc, similarly the real sunshine, brahmajyoti, is coming out of the spiritual planet Goloka Vṛndāvana incessantly. That is called brahmajyoti. Yasya prabhā prabhavato [Bs. 5.40]. And due to that incessant shining, all the shining which you are experiencing, even this lamp, even this electricity, fire, moonshine, sunshine, any shining, that is due to that brahmajyoti. So yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. In that shining, this material world, the spiritual world, they are resting. So impersonalists, they are concerned with the shining, that's all. The difference between the personalists and impersonalists is that impersonalists, they take that shining as final. But the personalists, they take, "No. Kṛṣṇa is final." That is their difference of opinion. Otherwise, both of them in the spiritual realm. And so far Kṛṣṇa is the cause of brahmajyoti, there are many evidences from Vedic literature. In Īśopaniṣad and other Upaniṣads, in Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā: "I am the source of brahmajyoti." You'll find in the Fourteenth Chapter, last verse, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ jyoti. Is there any Bhagavad-gītā? You find out Fourteenth Chapter, last verse.

Satsvarūpa: The English?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Satsvarūpa: "For I am the abode of Brahman, immortal, and the imperishable, of eternal law and of absolute good."



Prabhupāda: That's all? So He's the source of brahmajyoti. So if we have such realization that Kṛṣṇa is absolute, and if we realize... It is a question of realization.



Now, when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, if we chant mechanically, then the effect is different. I have already given you ten kinds of offenses there are in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So mechanical way of chanting is also another offense. So offenseless chanting... Of course in the beginning, neophytes, we are apt to commit so many offenses. But we should be careful that the chanting should be offenseless. Then we shall realize that Kṛṣṇa is present by His name. He is present. You'll realize and you'll have the same effect as you expect by meeting Kṛṣṇa personally. You can see Kṛṣṇa and you can hear Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa is absolute, there is no difference between seeing and hearing. That is the absolute sense. People give more stress on the eye: "Oh, can you show me Kṛṣṇa?" Oh, can't you hear Kṛṣṇa? Why do you give...? This is also one sense, that is also another sense. Do you think by seeing you'll understand everything? You are seeing so many things daily. Do you understand? So this is all foolishness, that "Can you show me?" Now we have got so many senses. So perception through any sense, because He is absolute, the same effect. Either you see Him personally or you hear Him. Rather, hearing is better because by seeing you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa is present, all people saw Him, but they could not understand Kṛṣṇa. But one who heard of Kṛṣṇa even five thousand years after, just like we are hearing, we can understand Kṛṣṇa as far as possible. So hearing is most important thing. You'll find in the Thirteenth Chapter, śruti parāyaṇa. Śruti parāyaṇa. Śruti parāyaṇa means one who is very much eager to hear about Kṛṣṇa, he's a very nice qualified man. So hearing is very important thing than seeing or touching or smelling. Hearing is very... Hearing is the, is so important. When all other senses are not acting, sleeping, no other sense is acting, as soon as telephone bell is called, you get up. No other sense will act. So hearing is so perfect. Therefore according to Vedic principle this hearing is very important thing. Hearing. And one who is very much eager to hear about Kṛṣṇa is very expert, because hearing is knowledge.

So if we hear Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa, His name, His fame, then Kṛṣṇa is present before us. And Lord Caitanya is giving another instance:

vilajjamānayā yasya

*sthātum īkṣā*-pathe 'muyā

vimohitā vikatthante

mamāham iti durdhiyaḥ



*In the Bhāgavatam where describing the illusory energy... When Vyāsadeva wrote Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam he, first of all, he meditated himself in bhakti-yoga.



*bhakti*-yogena manasi

samyak praṇihite 'male

apaśyat puruṣaṁ sākṣāt

*māyāṁ ca tad*-apāśrayam

[SB 1.7.4]



*Māyā ca yat, yaya sammohito jīva. So this māyā, Kṛṣṇa's māyā, this illusory energy, external energy, also saw. Vyāsadeva saw. He saw Kṛṣṇa, apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam. He saw the Supreme Personality as well as His māyā. So māyā, yad*-apāśrayam. Māyā cannot come before Kṛṣṇa. Because... Just like the sun. Sunshine, there ignorance or darkness cannot come, cannot approach. So he saw. Vilajjamānayā yasya sthātum īkṣā-pathe amuyā. The māyā is ashamed to come before Kṛṣṇa because she is entrusted with very thankless task. Māyā is entrusted by Kṛṣṇa to take the conditioned souls and take charge of them. And māyā has taken charge of all us conditioned souls, and her task is to punish, simply beating. So that is a very thankless task. She is discharging the duty entrusted to her by Kṛṣṇa, but everyone, especially the transcendentalists, oh, they are hating, "Oh, māyā, māyā, māyā." Nobody will like, transcendentalists, māyā. Either personalist or impersonalist. But she's engaged. Just like police. Police is engaged by the state, but nobody likes police. Everyone will criticize police. Thankless task. Because they, unless they become strict, unless they become red-hot iron (?) they cannot execute their duty. That is their way of punishing. But people do not like them. Nobody likes police. You see. Even a police comes all of a sudden here to sit down here to hear us, we'll suspect, "Oh, he has come with some purpose." (laughs) It is such a thankless task. Similarly, māyā is entrusted with thankless task. She cannot approach Kṛṣṇa, neither she is liked by the conditioned souls.



*So here it is said, vilajjamānayā yasya sthātum īkṣā-pathe 'muyā. Why? Vimohitā vikatthante. And illusioned by that māyā, vikatthante, talks like a madman. What is that? Mamāham iti durdhiyaḥ. The foolish conditioned souls are absorbed in two things: "I am," and "mine." "It is my, it is I am." "I am the lord of all I survey," or "This is my country, this is my society, this is my body, this is my son, this is my children, this is my home." This is..., this is the absorption. Although nothing belongs to him*-in a moment's notice everything finished-but still he's so much vikatthante. "O my society, my country, my father, my mother." So many, "Mine, mine." Nothing belongs to him, but he says always, "Mine, mine." "My" and "I." This is māyā.

*So this māyā cannot approach to a person who is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the version of Lord Caitanya, and with evidences. So if we want to be free from the clutches of māyā, then this is the only path*-to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no other means. Because here it is clearly stated, kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama. Just try to understand the argument. Kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama: Kṛṣṇa is just like sun. Māyā andhakāra: and the māyā is just like darkness. It is darkness. So just you cannot imagine where there is sunshine there can be darkness. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is just like sun; how can you imagine that Kṛṣṇa and māyā can exist together? No. That is not possible. If there is māyā, there is no Kṛṣṇa. And if there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no māyā. This is the test. If we are still in māyā, that means I'm out of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if I am actually in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no existence of māyā. And what is the symptom of māyā? Mamāham: "My country, my society, my father, my mother, my wife, my children, my property, my position, my, my, my." There is no end of "my," although nothing belongs to him. This is called māyā.

So the more we make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this "my" consciousness and "I" consciousness will vanish. Just like while eating, the hunger and weakness will vanish. When you are hungry, you have not eaten in three days, we become weak and we become hungry. So this is natural consequence. And as soon as you begin to eat, this weakness will disappear and the hunger will disappear, and satisfaction will come. There is no doubt about it. Similarly, if these two things cannot stand together, māyā and Kṛṣṇa, then if I am in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then there is no question of māyā. It may be that I'm not fully Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That may be. Just like while eating it is not that immediately my hunger is satisfied or immediately I get my lost weakness. Takes little time. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness may be a gradual process of advancement, but this is the rule. If we are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there cannot be any existence of māyā, illusion. That is the test. If I am still in illusion, then I should understand that my business in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not progressing. This is the test.

*'kṛṣṇa, tomāra haṅa' yadi bale eka*-bāra

*māyā*-bandha haite kṛṣṇa tāre kare pāra



*This is a very nice thing. Why Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not advance? Because due to our lack of surrender. We have got doubts that "Whether Kṛṣṇa consciousness can make me actually advance?" We have got doubts. So long we have got doubts, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not progressing. We should clear all doubts. That is, you have got, everyone has got right to clear doubts. Clear doubts. If you think Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man, then that is doubt. Ordinary. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍha mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. "Foolish persons, they think Me as ordinary man." But He's not. He's God. We should not be, I mean to say, detached from Kṛṣṇa because He's sitting on the lap of Yaśodā. Still He's Kṛṣṇa. There are instances. Therefore we have to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when He was only three months old, oh, very beautiful child... As beautiful child, He's taken care of other ladies and girls. Oh, it is very nice. So Pūtanā, a demoness, she, in the dress of a very nice girl, approached Yaśodāmayī, and she had the desire... Because she was the agent of Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was searching out to kill Kṛṣṇa. So she came with poison in her breast so that she'll take the child, and naturally, the child, they suck breast of lady. And as soon as Kṛṣṇa will suck the breast, and there is poison, it will die. That was his plan. Now Yaśodāmayī, she's very innocent lady. She came: "Oh, Yaśodā, you have got very nice child. Will you kindly give in my lap?" "Yes, yes. Why not? Take." And she at once put the child on the breast and Kṛṣṇa sucked. Kṛṣṇa sucked the poison and Kṛṣṇa sucked the life also. At once the demon fell, a gigantic body, and there was... "Oh, how He is powerful."(?) So He's all*-powerful there in the lap of His mother. Yaśodāmayī thought, "Oh! God has saved my child! This demoness, they came to cheat me." Yaśodāmayī does not know that here is God on her lap. This is another māyā. This is called yogamāyā. If Yaśodāmayī understands He is God, then (s)he cannot, I mean to say, bring up the child just like her own child, ordinary child. Therefore she must be in ignorance, that she... Because there is the connection of love only. That's all. So out of love, as somebody forgets what he is or she is, similarly Yaśodāmayī constantly seeing so many wonderful things played by Kṛṣṇa, still she is thinking, "Oh, He is my child. These things are happening by some supernatural power. It is God's grace. It is God's grace that my child is saved." She is simply anxious to save her child. That's all.



So these things are to be studied, to be seen. Therefore unless we hear about Kṛṣṇa perfectly, then we cannot surrender. Therefore hearing is very essential. And kṛṣṇa tomāra... And when, as soon as we surrender unto Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent. He's more intelligent. At least two inches intelligent more. So how far I have surrendered, He knows. Simply artificially saying that "I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious," He can understand. He can understand. But if actually one surrenders, then there is no question of attack of māyā to him. All attack of māyā finished. But the difficulty is that we have got doubts, we do not surrender, we do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and therefore the difficulties always disturbing.

Thank you very much. (end)





670120CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 25.19-31

-

San Francisco, January 20, 1967



Prabhupāda: ...by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. They were convinced with the arguments and presentation of Lord Caitanya. And from that day, not only the sannyāsīs, but also the people in general, they also became very much admirer of Lord Caitanya. So,



lokera saṅghaṭṭa āise prabhure dekhite

nānā śāstre paṇḍita āise śāstra vicārite



And because He defeated the Māyāvādī philosophers, many other scholars also began to meet Him personally and talk with Him, argue with Him.



So this was going on naturally. Whenever a man becomes prominent, so many others, they come to challenge him. That is natural sequence.

sarva-śāstra khaṇḍi' prabhu bhakti kare sāra

sayuktika vākye mana phirāya sabāra



The speciality of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was that He used to put very sound arguments, and He used to defeat His opponents in such a way that they were satisfied. They were not inimical. And with the evidence of śāstra. Not that argumentum vaculum. He was putting reasonable arguments and evidences from śāstra, scripture. Sarva-śāstra khaṇḍi' prabhu bhakti kare sāra. And the beauty was that He was defeating all other arguments against devotional service. He was establishing only that God is great, and we are meant for serving Him. On this basis He was arguing and He was defeating others.



*upadeśa lañā kare kṛṣṇa*-saṅkīrtana

*sarva*-loka hāse, gāya, karaye nartana



And the whole city became surcharged with Kṛṣṇa kīrtana. Everyone began to dance and sing Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. They may understand or not understand, but the infection was there that everyone was chanting.



prabhure praṇata haila sannyāsīra gaṇa

*ātma*-madhye goṣṭhī kare chāḍi' adhyayana



*Now, so far the sannyāsīs were concerned, they practically gave up their so*-called Vedānta study, and they simply began to discuss on the sublime presentation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and they were enjoying that.



prakāśānandera śiṣya eka tāṅhāra samāna

*sabhā*-madhye kahe prabhura kariyā sammāna



So after this incidence, one of the chief disciples of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he stood up and began to glorify Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the following words:



*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya haya 'sākṣāt nārāyaṇa'

*'vyāsa*-sūtrera' artha karena ati-manorama



Amongst the Māyāvāda sannyāsīs, the etiquette is to address one another as Nārāyaṇa. They say, "namo nārāyaṇa," "Everyone is Nārāyaṇa." I address you, "namo nārāyaṇa," and you address me, "namo nārāyaṇa." A mutual praising society of Nārāyaṇas. Nārāyaṇa eko āsīt. In the *Vedas* it is said that only Nārāyaṇa was before creation. So after creation, all these living entities became Nārāyaṇa. This is their philosophy, that "There is no separate Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa has manifested pantheism. Nārāyaṇa has manifested Himself in so many varieties. And the varieties is closed; then again, Nārāyaṇa remains." So this Māyāvāda sannyāsīs, they address one another as "Nārāyaṇa." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also a sannyāsī, so he is addressing Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the supreme Nārāyaṇa, as the chief Nārāyaṇa. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). As it is stated in the Kaṭhopaniṣad, that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the leader of all other personalities. He's also person, we are also person. But He is leader. Of all living entities, He is the supreme living entity. Of all eternals He is the supreme eternal.



*So the disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he addressed Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the chief Nārāyaṇa, sākṣād*-nārāyaṇa. "We are all imitation Nārāyaṇa, but You are the chief Nārāyaṇa." Vyāsa-sūtrera artha karena ati-manorama. "And Caitanya's Mahāprabhu's special qualification is that He presents Vedānta-sūtra in such a nice way that it is wonderful."

upaniṣadera karena mukhyārtha vyākhyāna

*śuniyā paṇḍita*-lokera juḍāya mana-kāṇa



"And He presents the import of Upaniṣad in such a way that everyone becomes pleased by hearing His explanation."



*sūtra*-upaniṣadera mukhyārtha chāḍiyā

ācārya 'kalpanā' kare āgraha kariyā



"So long Śaṅkarācārya, he has imagined some meaning, and therefore that is not so pleasing as much as Caitanya Mahāprabhu's interpretation." Not interpretation; "direct explanation."



*ācārya*-kalpita artha ye paṇḍita śune

mukhe 'haya' 'haya' kare, hṛdaya nā māne



*"So we belong to this Māyāvādī sect. Although we hear the Śārīraka*-bhāṣya of Śaṅkarācārya and we say, 'Yes, yes,' but actually, it does not appeal to us."



There is the important point of Māyāvādī philosophers. Every one of them, they say that "I am God," but actually he thinks within himself that "What kind of God I am?" That is the position. But for argument's sake they will play so many things in support of their views, but actually, any sane man will think that "What kind of God I am? I cannot defend myself from the slightest attack of this material nature, and still I claim..." But they cannot admit frankly. They think like that. That is being admitted here by the chief disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, that "Although we say, 'Yes, this is...,' but it does not appeal to our mind." He is frankly saying.

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-vākya dṛḍha satya māni

*kali*-kāle sannyāse 'saṁsāra' nāhi jini



Now he says that "What Lord Caitanya, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, has said, that is very nice. And we simply accept this sannyāsa order. Oh, that will not help us. Simply by accepting, changing the garment, colored garment, and without understanding anything properly or dealing properly, that is not the way for salvation." Because according to Śaṅkarācārya, anyone who accepts sannyāsa, he becomes immediately Nārāyaṇa, God. He immediately becomes God. So that is being refuted by one of the disciples, that "This is nonsense, that simply by accepting and changing the garment I become God. This is not..." Actually, one has to understand things as they are. So therefore, the explanation as given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that is right.



harer nāma-ślokera yei karilā vyākhyāna

sei satya sukhadārtha parama pramāṇa



Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained before them that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool. Therefore he has asked Me the 'Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " So "This explanation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu is very nice."



bhakti vinā mukti nahe, bhāgavate kaya

*kali*-kāle nāmābhāse sukhe mukti haya



*So far salvation is concerned, nobody can be liberated without bhakti, without devotional service. Bhakti vinā, without devotion, or without love of Godhead, without attaining... That is the verdict of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So long one is not a surrendered soul to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no question of liberation from this material world. Bhāgavata says, śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho. Here's a nice verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is said there that śreyaḥ-sṛtim, the real path of salvation, śreyaḥ-sṛtim, bhaktim, that is devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śreyah-sṛtiṁ bhaktim. Bhaktim udasya te vibho. If somebody gives up the path of devotional service, kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye, and wastes time simply for understanding that "This is not Brahman, this is not Brahman..." That is the way of Māyāvādī philosophers. They scrutinize that "This is māyā and this is Brahman"; *therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. Simply, what is not Brahman... They say it is one, but simply they distinguish, "This is māyā, this is Brahman." Why this is māyā? They say, wherefrom the māyā comes? Then it becomes dualism actually. Although they say that "We are monists, one," but they explain that this māyā is illusion. Māyā is temporary, and actually, everything is one. Eko brahma dvitīya nāsti. But the Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that "Yes... It is..." It is called viśiṣṭādvaitavāda. We also say, "Yes, one," but one in variety. There are varieties. We don't say that māyā is something external. Māyā is there. Māyā is there. It is not external. It may be inferior, as it is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā that material energy, the material nature is inferior. That does not mean infer... Some part of my body is inferior. That does not mean it has no existence. It is not mithyā. They say everything mithyā. Mithyā means false. So inferior part of my body there may be, but it is not false. Similarly, the māyā, māyā is not false. It is temporary.



*So the Bhāgavata says, simply to understand "This is not Brahman, this is māyā, this is not Brahman," if you go on speculating and without any interest for devotional service or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then teṣām eṣa kleśala eva śiṣyate. So their advancement in self*-realization is simply troublesome. Troublesome. They simply take the trouble of discriminating that "This is māyā, this is Brahman. This is false, this is reality." Because they have no other engagement. For a devotee there are so many engagements, but the Māyāvādī philosopher takes it for granted that these devotees' activities... "They are cooking for Kṛṣṇa or they are offering prasādam to Kṛṣṇa, they are decorating Kṛṣṇa, or they are singing for Kṛṣṇa, glorifying Kṛṣṇa-these are all mayic activities," they say. Because this bhakti-mārga is not appealing to them. They simply want to... Similarly, the bhaktas also say that "You are simply wasting time. Real thing is Kṛṣṇa. Just engage yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa." They also say, "Kṛṣṇa is also māyā." According to them, Kṛṣṇa is also māyā. And Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā says that they are fools. How? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. Mūḍha means "The fools, they minimize Me. They decry at Me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. "Because I come as incarnation, therefore the fools, they consider..., or they deride at Me." Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. They do not know the background of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mama bhūta-maheśvaram. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme Lord." They do not know. Who do not know? The Māyāvādīs, they do not know. So therefore their labor of love for discriminating what is māyā and what is not māyā is simply troublesome. Teṣām kleśala eva avaśiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. Just like the skins of rice, when it is taken, there is no more grain. So the grain is separated from the skin by beating. There is a beating machine in India. That is a crude, original way of separating the grain from the skin. So when the skin is out from the grain, if you simply beat the skin, no more there is grain. So similarly, if you make minus Kṛṣṇa, then the study of Bhagavad-gītā is simply waste of time and labor of love. That's all. "Not Kṛṣṇa." This means, this Māyāvāda philosophy means simply taking trouble. Bhagavad-gītā is all full..., simply Kṛṣṇa. To understand this, it is a science of Kṛṣṇa. And if somebody says, "It is not Kṛṣṇa," then what is that? Simply waste of time and labor. The same thing: the grain is taken out. Simply the skin, enjoy the skin. What is there in the skin?

*So this is the verdict of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Bodha-labdhaye. They stress on knowledge. What is this knowledge? You can talk on any insignificant thing for many years. That is not knowledge. Just like in the present modern civlization, so many nonsense articles without any utility, or volumes of volumes of books are sold in the market. There is nothing, no substance. Take for this..., newspaper. Especially in your country, volumes of papers in the news. Just after glancing over, it is thrown away. That's all. No more use. Just as The newspaper is published early in the morning, and just in the afternoon it is useless, it is heap of paper only, because there is no substance. Nobody can take any interest. But see Bhagavad-gītā, it is, five thousand years before it was published, and a few pages only, and how much care is being taken after Bhagavad-gītā. Because there is substance. Similarly, if you don't accept the substance, simply if you are busy with the skin... In Bengali it is called cavara nie tanake (?). Cavara means skin. You have seen coconut. The coconut is covered by heavy, what is called, fibers. So if you give up the coconut and simply quarrel with the fibers, what profit is there? There is no profit. Similarly, if you give up God, or Kṛṣṇa, who is the essence of everything, and you make your advancement in scientific knowledge, in physics and chemistry and so many departments of knowledge, so according to Bhāgavata this is simply waste of time. Simply waste of time. But what we'll gain? Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Suppose you understand in your human form of life the whole constitution of the universe... That is stated in Bible also, that "If somebody understands everything, but not God, then what does he gain?" Similarly, there is another verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that one may be very much expert to count even the atoms of the universe. You smash the universe and grind it into powder, and you just count all the atoms. That is possible . But still, it is not possible to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore who understands the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he understands everything. Tasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If somebody understand the Supreme Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, he understands everything because He is everything.

So we should not make progress in the negative way, leaving aside... Just like you do not know what you are. You are studying this body. If I do not find out who is the proprietor of the body, who is sitting in the body so that this body is so nice, fresh, and walking and moving... That you do not find. But you simply... You're studying, what is called? Physiological condition, anatomical condition, and metabolism, this or that. There are so many big, big names. But real, the proprietor of the body... The doctors are sitting, analyzing. But as soon as the soul passes, they cannot explain what happened, what happened to this meta..., I mean to say, anatomy and physiology. They stand fools. So this is going on. The essence of the thing, the essence of the manifestation, cosmic manifestation they have missed. They're simply analyzing the outward cover. That's all. That sort of analysis is compared here as simply beating the bush. That's all. (laughter) It has no value.

All right. (end)



670121CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 25.29

-

San Francisco, January 21, 1967



Prabhupāda:

*...snapanaṁ paraṁ vijāyate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam



harer nāma-ślokera yei karilā vyākhyāna

sei satya sukhadārtha parama pramāṇa



*So one of the chief disciples of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he very much appreciated Caitanya Mahāprabhu's presentation of Vedānta*-sūtra and excellent presentation of harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21], that "In this age there is no other alternative for self-realization than chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare," harer nāma, the holy name of God. So considering the fallen age at the present moment, God is so merciful and kind that He presents Himself as sound, sound vibration, which everyone can produce by his tongue and can hear, and God is present there.



*So we have been discussing this... Śreyaḥ sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala*-bodha-labhaye. Don't waste your time simply, "What is this? What is that? What is this? What is that?" Just immediately take shelter of the Supreme Lord. That is your immediate necessity. Because we do not know when death will come. So this is an opportunity. Suppose if you do something and if you are given ultimatum, the deadline, that "Within five minutes you must finish," similarly, this spot of life, in the comparison of our eternal life, it is only five minutes. But if five minutes is wasted simply for eating, sleeping, and for a little comfort of this body, and our mission is forgotten, oh, it is simply suicidal for you. Therefore Bhāgavata says, bhaktim udasya. Giving up the devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if one is foolishly simply engaged in understanding "What is this? What is that...?" That will be understood. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, if you understand the Supreme Absolute Truth, then there will be nothing unknown. Everything will be known because He is everything. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātainām. Such persons who are simply wasting time, "What is this? What is this? What is this?" their profit is simply labor of love, that's all.

*Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. There is another verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Tenth Canto, Second Chapter, twenty-sixth verse. It is said there, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa. God is addressed, Kṛṣṇa is addressed as lotus-eyed. His eyes are very nice, so His another name is Aravinda, Aravinda-akṣa. Akṣa means eyes, and aravinda means lotus flower. So one devotee is praying: ye, persons those; *aravindākṣa, O the lotus*-eyed God. There are persons who, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta... They are falsely thinking that "I am now liberated. I have become one with God." Falsely thinking. It is just like on some purchasing matter that we have become one with God. Bhāgavata says, "What, fool, you have become one with God? You are being kicked by the laws of nature. Why do you think foolishly that you are one with God?" So ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Vimukta-māninaḥ means they are thinking that "I am now liberated. I have become one with the Supreme." Te, aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Their intelligence is not purified. In other words, it is very gentlemanly said, "Their intelligence is not purified." That means they are in the darkness of knowledge, or grand fool, in other words. So these grand fools, they think that "I have become liberated." They are being kicked every second by the laws of nature; still, they think that "I am liberated."

*So such persons... He aravindākṣa, "O the lotus*-eyed," āruhya kṛcchreṇa, "to become one with You, they perform severe austerity." That requires, of course... Śaṅkarācārya recommended monism. Oh, nobody can follow his strict principle. So we simply say that "We are follower of Śaṅkarācārya." You cannot approach even the shadow of Śaṅkarācārya. He was so strict and so disciplinary. He would... They are... According to Śaṅkara-sampradāya, everyone must take first of all sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means this renounced order of life. There is no question, those who are enjoying this material life, for them to understand Śaṅkara philosophy. It is another foolishness. Śaṅkara does not recognize anybody who has not accepted sannyāsa. That is his first principle. So Śaṅkara-sampradāya, they perform very austere penance and principles. They take three times bath at least, three times. And no clothing; simply one loincloth, one... And their possession is one loincloth and one wooden waterpot. That's all. Nothing more. And they will lie down on the floor. So their strict, I mean to say, renounced order is very strict. So they perform austerity. So Bhāgavata accepts their austerity. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. By their severe penances and austerity they come to the supreme position.

*Supreme position means to come to the point of realization of Brahman. Impersonal realization of Brahman, that is not also a joke. It may be impersonal, but that position is very high. That is accepted. That Vaiṣṇavas, or the personalists, they also accept, "Oh, their position is very high." But the difficulty is that Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Although they come to the almost nearer, but, anādṛtaḥ patanty adhaḥ. Anādṛta, because they have no shelter. Just like... It is not joke. If you go up by a sputnik some few hundreds and thousands of miles, that is not joke. That is not to be ridiculed. But the danger is that if you do not have shelter, then you come down. If you have no shelter, then what is the use of going up? That shelter is Kṛṣṇa, that supreme abode or Vaikuṇṭhaloka, kingdom of God. So because they have no idea that there is kingdom of God or God is person, you can reach there, you can talk with Him, therefore they have no shelter and their intelligence is not purified, because they have not still completed what is actual knowledge. Actual knowledge, it is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. That is actual knowledge. When he comes to the point of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrenders: "My Lord, I have simply wasted my time in this way. Now I understand vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], You are Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa. You are everything." That is the ultimate end of knowledge. And so long one does not come to this point, it is to be understood that he has no shelter. And because he has no shelter, he has to come down again. Again. Again to the opening of hospitals and giving medicine or so many things philanthropic, what the ordinary men are doing. What is the use of your sannyāsa, renouncing this world? Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Śaṅkarācārya's first principle is, "Give up this material world. This is all false, nonsense. Come to the Brahman platform." So if you go to the Brahman platform, why again you come to this nonsense platform? That means patanty adhaḥ. That means patanty adhaḥ.

*There is a very big sannyāsī in India. His name is Karpatri. Karpatriji. So he is very learned scholar. And when he speaks about Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, he's such a learned scholar, thousands of people will come to hear him. Actually, he's a very great scholar. But he was very much respectable and he had many disciples, very, I mean to say, a man of position, a sannyāsī. Unfortunately he has taken now politics. He's after to take back Pakistan and join it with India. That has become his mission. So he is going to jail even-because political movement. So everything he's doing; *now his sannyāsa is finished. Now no more Brahman. Now again India and Pakistan. That's all. So this is sure. Vivekananda came here to preach Hindu religion. Before that he had no idea of philanthropic work. And when he came back to India, "Oh, this is your religion. Oh, so many Indians they are suffering. So many Indians they have no shelter. Oh, give them shelter. Give them hospital." Now he became... And collected fund. Vivekananda started new religion, daridra*-nārāyaṇa. Daridra-nārāyaṇa means the poor, poverty-stricken Bowery men, they should be served, not Kṛṣṇa. That is their mission. The Ramakrishna Mission means to serve daridra-nārāyaṇa. "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." He has invented some words, "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." You see Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, so opulent. According to Vivekananda, He has become poor now.

So these things are going on. These things are nothing. They are symptoms of falling down, nothing more. They are symptoms of falling down. They cannot do a bit of benefit to the humanity. The laws of nature is so strict that if you have to suffer, nobody can check you. That is realized of Prahlāda Mahārāja. There are so many evidences. Bālasya neha pitarau śaraṇam. So there are children. There are children. Of course, here a different..., but there are many children, they have got their parents, but they are suffering. Actually, children who have got their parents, they take care. But in spite of their parents being present, they are suffering for want of foods, want of proper management. Therefore it is to be understood that father and mother is not actually the, I mean to say, responsible men to take care of children. Then bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nārtasya cāgadam. Ārtasya, those who are suffering, for them, those who are suffering from disease, medicine is not all. Suppose one man is suffering. You give him all treatment and medicine. There are many rich men, they can spend like anything. But does it mean that he'll be cured? No. He may not be cured. He may not be cured. The parents, even in the presence of parents, the children may suffer. Udanvato, nauḥ. And suppose you have got very good, nice ship. Do you mean to say that you'll cross over the Atlantic Ocean safely? Oh, at any moment it can be drowned. There is no guarantee. You have got very nice jet plane, you are going to San Francisco. Oh, there is no guarantee that you shall reach there. So therefore, unless there is God's sanction, all these remedies, all these protection is useless. Useless.

Therefore the best service to the humanity is to revive his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. That will save him. That will save him. Not this little hospital or this little foodstuff. No. That cannot save him. If God neglects one... There is a Bengali, two lines: rakṣe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rakṣe ke. If Kṛṣṇa, if God wants to kill somebody, oh, nobody can protect him. And if God wants to protect him, oh, nobody can kill him. If God wants to kill him, nobody can protect him. And if God wants to kill him, nobody can protect him. Both ways. One Dr. Ghosh, he told me... Because I was in medical business. He went to see one patient. He explained that "I went to see one patient. He's suffering from pneumonia, and he's so poor man, and he's lying in so unfavorable condition. So our medical science says he would have at once died. But don't see he's dying. He's not dying." I have tested this. One doctor at Gayā, he's a Muhammadan doctor. So I saw that many patients are, I mean to..., surrounding him. So when I saw him I congratulated, "Doctor, you have got very good patients. Your practice is very nice." So his name was Suvahi (?). He's Muhammadan. So, "Sir, it is not my credit. If you want my practical experience, I'll say you that with confidence I prescribe somebody some medicine, it fails. And without any confidence, just to take a chance, I prescribe some medicine, 'Oh, let me see if it...' Oh, it works nicely. So actually, I have no credit."

So that sir, he was honest man to admit, "It is God's grace that so many patients are being cured in my hand, but I say I have no credit." This is really. So we should not take any credit. Everything is under the laws of the Supreme Lord, through the agency of this material external energy. Just like a government is working under different departments, similarly, God is working under His different energies. That's all. He's sitting with you, He's seeing everything, He knows everything. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. He knows your past, present, and He knows your mind. As you wanted to do something, He will remind you, "My dear boy, you wanted to do this. Do it. And you wanted to place your hand on the fire. You've forgotten. Just place your hand on the fire and see. Test it." So this is going on. This is nature's law. And they are suffering. They are being kicked by the material nature, still, they have no sense. "I am God. I am God." These fools these rascals have created havoc in the world. Godlessness.

*So Bhāgavata says that "They are," in a very polished language, that "their intelligence is not," I mean to say, "pure." Aviśuddha*-buddhayaḥ. Buddha means, buddhi means intelligence, and aviśuddha, not purified. Why not purified? Because they have no shelter. So in spite of their so much austerity, penance, Vedānta reading and jugglery of words, they come back again to the hospital. That's all. That is their business. So ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta bhāvād aviśuddha... [SB 10.2.32]. They are simply thinking they are liberated. This is not liberation. Liberation means to have Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is liberation.

*'brahma'-śābde kahe 'ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa bhagavān

tāṅre 'nirviśeṣa' sthāpi, 'pūrṇatā' haya hāna



*The Brahman, as explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's summarizing, Brahman means the greatest. Greatest means... How we can estimate greatest? "Oh, he is the greatest rich man. He is the greatest strong man. He is greatest man of knowledge. He is greatest the man of beauty. He is greatest man of..." That is God. That's all. You find out any person in this world who is greatest rich man*-you won't find. Therefore nobody's God. You find out any man, he is the greatest strong man. There is no such thing. If you find me greatest strong, and after a few days you'll find, "Oh, Bruce is stronger than Swamijī." Then, if you conclude there, you'll find, "Oh, Dvārakādhīśa is stronger than Bruce." You go on. You find stronger and weaker, both. You'll find weaker than you and stronger than you. Even if you find an elephant-he's supposed to be the strongest animal-oḥ, the lion is stronger than him. If you think that lion is very strong, oh, you'll find gorilla is stronger than him. So there is no limit who is the strongest. When you come to the limit... So śāstra says that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. There are so many īśvaras, gods, that's all right. But the Supreme Lord is Kṛṣṇa because nobody is found greater than Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was actually present and He manifested as ordinary man like us, in the history we find that nobody was greater than Him. At least, we can find out the Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. There is nobody in the world who could speak more than Bhagavad-gītā. Up to date. The man is so much advanced his knowledge, so-called, that they cannot put a literature like Bhagavad-gītā or they can understand fully. Even Dr. Radhakrishnan fails and other fails.



So God means the greatest. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains on that line. Brahman means the greatest, the Supreme. And how we can estimate one's greatness? These are the symptoms of greatness. So how He can be impersonal? If the Brahman is the richest, if the Brahman is the most beautiful, if Brahman is the most learned, then where is the question of impersonality? Can any impersonal thing become learned? Can any impersonal thing can become richest? That is... Who can challenge this explanation? If you say "God is great," then how we estimate God is great? These are the symptoms. He must be great in richness. He must be great in strength. He must be great in beauty. He must be great in knowledge. He must be great in renunciation. These are the symptoms of greatness. How you can deny it? Where is the... Now, if you say, "Our idea of great means the sky," oh, then God creates the sky; therefore sky is not great. God is great. Just like you see the sunlight distributed all over the universe. If you say, "This is greatest," oh, the sun planet is creating the sunlight; *therefore sun planet is greatest, not the sunshine. So we are captivated, tribhir guṇamayī, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. We are captivated by the greatness of the three qualities of nature or the energies of God. And we do not approach God. That is our difficulty. We are simply amazed by seeing the wonderful activities of God's energy. That's all. But we do not approach God. Therefore we are less intelligent. One who does not approach God (and) simply is captivated by the display of His energy, they are called śakta. Śakta means appreciating the strength or the energy of God. That's all.

Thank you very much. (end)



670122CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 25.31-38

-

San Francisco, January 22, 1967



*Prabhupāda: ...Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu the disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī is quoting one verse from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam in which it is said that simply for understanding, if you waste your time, but if you do not practically apply yourself, then it is simply a waste of time. There is a very nice story. In our college days in logic class of Professor Purnachandra Sen, he cited a very nice example, that a student approached his teacher and the contract was that he wanted to become a law student, lawyer, and the contracts were that when the student will appear in the court after being duly qualified as lawyer, then he will pay the remuneration of the student. This was the contract between the... So that the teacher may very quickly make him qualified. So teacher agreed, "Yes. I shall make you qualified within one year. So you have to pay me five million dollars," like that, something. So when he was qualified, passed his law examination, he said, "Now you come. You practice in the court." So he said, "No. I am not going to practice." "Then pay me." "How can I pay? If I practice, then I'll pay, but I am not going to practice."



*So this kind of law student, that he has learned all laws and he has become lawyer officially by his degree, but he's not going to practice... So similarly, if we simply know what is Brahman and what is not Brahman, but do not practice, it is just like that. It is useless waste of time. If you become a medical man, but if you don't practice as a medical man, then why should you take so much trouble? Similarly, those jñānis and yogis, they do not take to the devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is practical. If you... So far, we are trying to be practically employed in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is our business. We may not be haṭha*-yogi or dhyāna-yogi or this yogi or that yogi or a very learned scholar, that we can distinguish and interpret that "Not to Kṛṣṇa but to myself." In this way I can waste my time. But if I do not apply myself (to) the purpose, then what is the use of? That is stated:

*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas

*tvayy asta*-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

*anādṛta*-yuṣmad...

[SB 10.2.32]



Such class of men simply trying to understand what is Brahman, what is not Brahman, but practically, he will simply be engaged in material sense enjoyment. He'll not give up anything, even not smoking. Anything will not give up. Everything he'll keep in contact, but he'll discuss very scholarly, "This is not Brahman, this is Brahman." This is simply waste of time. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate.



*Therefore such persons who are simply wasting their time in that way, if they think that "I have become liberated." So Bhāgavata says that their intelligence is not purified. They are less intelligent still, because the result of his being qualified is not being utilized. He's not engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The whole thing is that you have to meditate. Then meditate, you have to practice the haṭha*-yoga. Haṭha-yoga is the practice for the person who is too much addicted to this body. One who has got very stubborn conviction that "I am this body," for them, such foolish creatures are recommended that "You try to exercise and see what is there within you." Meditation. But one who knows that "I am not this body," he begins immediately that "I am not this body; *I am pure soul, and I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So my duty is to serve the Supreme." It is very simple truth. If I am part and parcel of the Supreme, then what is my duty? That you can understand from any example. As we have several times discussed, the part and parcel of my body, these hands, legs, oh they are engaged in service of the whole body. The part and parcel of this body, hand, what is it meant for? It is meant for serving the whole body. Similarly, if I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, then what is my duty? My duty is to abide by the orders of the Lord. That is the version of all Vedic scriptures. And Bhagavad*-gītā is the essence of all Vedic scripture. It says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other engagement. Just be surrendered unto Me and be engaged in My service." This is perfection.

So one who does not know this simple fact, then he may go on indulging, wasting his time by meditation, by cultivation of knowledge, by exercise, by pressing nose, or so many things. He is not in the, actually in the factual position. So such persons, in spite of their austerity, in spite of their severe penances... Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Although they realize that "Here is the Absolute Truth," or "Here is the light," or "Here is the essence," but because they do not engage in the devotional service of the Lord, or because they have no shelter under the lotus feet of the Lord, they fall down. Surely they fall down. The same example: you may go very high on a sputnik, ten thousand miles off from this earth, but if you have no shelter there, then naturally, you have to come back again here. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ [SB 10.2.32]. You may go high, very high. That's all right. But if you don't approach the moon planet or the Venus planet, or any other planet for which you started But these people, they are so foolish they are taking simply clap by wandering in the space a few thousand miles. They think, "This is our perfection. Because I have come so high, and 20,000 miles off from the earth planet, and there is clapping, 'Oh, sputnik has gone...' " But where is your result? The result must be you must reach to the moon planet. Then That is minus. Similarly, all these exercises, all this cultivation of knowledge, if they do not reach to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they are sure to come down again to these material activities. They are sure. Because they have no taste for Kṛṣṇa, they have to They will come again for opening hospitals and so on, so many activities, material activities.

*Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. This is falldown. Patanty adho anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. "My dear Lord, because they have neglected Your lotus feet."

*'brahma'-śābde kahe 'ṣaḍ*-aiśvarya-pūrṇa bhagavān'

tāṅre nirviśeṣa sthāpi, 'pūrṇatā' haya hāna



*And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that... Not Caitanya Mahāprabhu, I'm sorry. That disciple, the chief disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he's repeating what Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained about the Vedānta*-sūtra. He also accepts. Yes. Brahman, the great, means He is great in all respect. He is great in richness, He is great in strength, He is great in power, He is great in knowledge, He is great in renouncement. Then He is great. So if a man is the greatest man in richness, greatest man in power, greatest man in fame, greatest man in knowledge, greatest man in beauty, then where is the impersonality? These are all personal qualifications. So Brahman, or the Supreme, or the Absolute Truth, cannot be imperson. Imperson may be a feature, but ultimately He is person.



*śruti*-purāṇa kahe-kṛṣṇera cic-chakti-vilāsa

tāhā nāhi māni, paṇḍita kare upahāsa



*So śruti, śruti means the Vedas. The Vedas clearly say that all these manifestation, they are out of the energy. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. From this fountainhead, from the Supreme Source, the energies. Just like the electric light, it is very brilliant, illuminating. But this is energy emanating from the powerhouse. The powerhouse is person. It is managed by a person, executive engineer or resident engineer. So when you go, the government, United States, externally, ephemerally, it appears imperson, but if you go deep into the matter, you see that there is president, a person. So ultimately, a person, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, ultimately. That is the evidence from all Vedic scriptures. Tāhā nāhi māni, paṇḍita kare upahāsa. And these impersonalists, they do not accept this personal aspect of the Absolute Truth, and they laugh at the devotees, "Oh, what they are doing? They are less..." They are thinking that the devotees are less intelligent. And the devotees, they are also thinking that less intelligent. But you have to decide who is less intelligent. If you, from the Vedic literature, if you do not accept the decision... And the essence of Vedic literature is Bhagavad, Bhagavad*-gītā, and it is clearly stated there. When understood..., Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he clearly accepted Him that paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12], "You are the Supreme Lord, and nobody knows Your personality." So personality is accepted. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says that the verdict of all Vedic literatures is to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*cid-ānanda kṛṣṇa*-vigraha 'māyika' kari' māni

*ei baḍa 'pāpa'*-satya caitanyera vāṇī



Now the disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī is admitting that "God is person, His body is spiritual, but we do not accept it." It is the greatest offense. It is the greatest offense. How it is offense? Suppose you are my friend, and if I say, "Oh, you have no eyes. You have no hand. You have no leg. You have no tongue..." "You have no leg" means you are lame man. "You have no eyes" means you are blind man. "You have no hand" means... That means I am calling you by all ill names. "You are blind. You are lame. You are nonsense. You are rascal." So are they not offenses against the friend? If I say, "You have no eyes," it is gentlemanly speaking that "You are blind." If I directly say, "You are blind," oh, will you be very happy upon me? No. If I say, if "You have no leg..." Suppose if I say if "You have no brain," that means "You are rascal. You are fool." So these impersonalists, they are always, I mean to..., trying to understand how God is eyeless, handless, legless, all less. Simply he has got eyes to see beautiful things. He has got his hands to touch nice things. No. These are offenses. According to Caitanya Mahāprabhu these are great offense against God. So therefore they are, life after life, they are studying this impersonalism, but there is no perfection.



*This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Simply by knowledge is not liberation. Otherwise, why it is stated bahūnāṁ janma? Janma means that is not liberation. If you have again to take birth in material body, that means you are not liberated. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is specifically stated, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. That means after many, many births. So their acceptance of material body will continue. But when he understands that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], when he comes to that point, that "God is everything. Kṛṣṇa is everything," then his perfection is there. Cid-ānanda kṛṣṇa-vigraha māyika kari māni ei baḍa pāpa. This is a great offense, sinful conclusion, that God is imperson.

nātaḥ paraṁ parama yad bhavataḥ svarūpam

*ānanda*-mātram avikalpam aviddha-varcaḥ

*paśyāmi viśva*-sṛjam ekam aviśvam ātman

bhūtendriyātmakam adas ta upāśrito 'smi



*This is a verse from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Third Canto, Ninth Chapter, in which the Lord is prayed by Brahmā, that nātaḥ paraṁ parama yad bhavataḥ svarūpam ānanda-mātram. "The personality which I am now seeing, that is the highest goal, or the topmost understanding of the Absolute Truth." Nātaḥ param. There is no beyond. Even if you are in the consciousness of impersonal Brahman, there is far advanced stage. What is that? Or Paramātmā, the Supersoul understanding. And when you are in the Supersoul understanding you have to go further, because the Supersoul is a reflection, reflection. Of course, there is no difference between the reflection and the substance in the spiritual world. Still, it is reflection. Just like the sun. Sun is on your head, but his reflection can be perceived by everyone standing within this, I mean to say, under the sun. Suppose you are here. The sun is above your head, and you ask other persons who are five thousand miles or five hundred miles away from you, "Where is sun?" he will say that "Sun is on my head." So everyone will say, "Sun is on my head." Similarly, although sun is one, he is perceived that he is in everyone's heart, er, everyone's head. Similarly, the Lord, although He is one, He is situated in Vaikuṇṭha, but He is Brahman. He is the greatest. He is greater than the, far million, million times or unlimited timely greater than sun. Then He is reflected in everyone's heart. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, that Supreme Personality of Godhead, is situated in the heart of every living being.



*Now, this reflection, although there is no difference between this reflection of the Supreme Lord, Supersoul, and the Supreme Lord, still, He is not Supreme Lord. You have to still go further. You have to search out the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Brahmā said, "Now I am seeing Your personality. So there is nothing beyond this." Nātaḥ paraṁ parama yad bhavataḥ svarūpam. "Now, here it is Your real form or real identity." Bhavataḥ svarūpam. And what is that svarūpam? What is that identity? Ānanda*-mātram. It is simply reservoir of pleasure. This is the form of Kṛṣṇa. Form of Kṛṣṇa means there is no shadow of any material contamination. Ānanda-mātram. Ānanda-mātram avikalpam aviddha-varcaḥ. And not that... Suppose we are sometimes happy and next time I am unhappy, but this ānanda is eternal. There is no cessation. Ānanda-mātram. Paśyami viśva-sṛjam ekam aviśvam ātman. "So I am seeing now personally viśva-sṛjam, the creator of the whole manifestation." Viśva-sṛjam, viśvam ātman. "And You are the soul of all manifestation." Bhūtendriyātmakam adas ta upāśrito 'smi. "So You are the original source of all creation, all body, all ātmā, all soul, everything. So I surrender unto You." This is one nice verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*tad vā idaṁ bhuvana*-maṅgala maṅgalāya

dhyāne sma no daraśitaṁ ta upāsakānām

tasmai namo bhagavate 'nuvidhema tubhyaṁ

*yo 'nādṛto naraka*-bhāgbhir asat-prasaṅgaiḥ



*Now, Brahmā says that "This form is bhuvana*-maṅgalam maṅgalāya. This form, Kṛṣṇa, is meant for all auspicity for everyone." Bhuvana-maṅgalāya dhyāne sma daraśitaṁ ta upāsakānām. "Those who are observing You in meditation..." Meditation means to concentrate the mind only on Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. This is meditation. I do not know Nowadays so many meditators are there, they have no objective. Something they try to think of impersonal, nonmanifested. And that is condemned in Bhagavad-gītā, that kleśādhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Those who are trying to meditate upon that impersonal void, they are simply, I mean to say, taking unnecessary trouble. If you want to meditate, just meditate on Kṛṣṇa or the$ Paramātmā, the catur-bhuja Viṣṇu, four-handed Viṣṇu. That is the process of meditation everywhere recommended. So why should we go to the impersonal or voidness of meditation and waste our time? Yes.



*Any question? [break] ...jya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, that "You give up all nonsensical engagement. Just surrender unto Me." This is the purpose of Vedānta*-sūtra, and this is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And that astonished them; therefore they say that vedomāyā mūrti tumi sākṣād nārāyaṇa: "You are just the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it appears. And You are personified Vedānta. Therefore we criticized You formerly. Please excuse us."

Thank you very much. (end)



670123CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 25.36-40

-

San Francisco, January 23, 1967



Prabhupāda:



nātaḥ paraṁ parama sambhavata yad bhavataḥ svarūpam

*ānanda*-mātram avikalpam aviddha-varcaḥ

*paśyāmi viśva*-sṛjam ekam aviśvam ātman

bhūtendriyātmakam adas ta upāśrito 'smi



*So the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, is the ultimate goal. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti kiñcid dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says, "There is nothing more superior than Me." So this statement of Bhagavad-gītā is also confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by this verse. Ānanda-mātram. In the transcendental body of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is simply ānandam, blissful. We should note it that this body, our material body, is nirānandam, is without ānanda. We are trying to adjust to have ānanda, or pleasure, by the limited resources of our senses, but actually, there is no ānanda, bliss. It is all miserable. This miserable body is condemned in every, I mean to say, practically, chapter and every śloka, every verse.



*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. Generally, people, they are mad, because more or less... Not more or less. Practically every one of us, we are mad. Why mad? Pramattaḥ, this very word is used. Pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. This material nature's program is such that the conditioned souls who are here, they should live in such a regulated life that ultimately they can go back to home, back to Godhead, because we are sons of the Supreme Lord. We have come here to enjoy material, pramattaḥ svārthe, and we do not know what is our self-interest. We are thinking that "I am this body," and therefore a little sense gratification... Because the body means there are different senses, and if we can gratify the senses we think that we are happy. This is madness. Ṛṣabhādeva says, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. The only business is sense gratification. He says, na sādhu manye: "This is not very good." Sādhu means good. Just to distinguish between the body of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, and our body, here the body of Kṛṣṇa is said, ānanda-mātram. Ānanda-mātram, simply full of..., reservoir of all pleasures. So because we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, we have also ānanda-mātram, simply blissful body we have got. That is called spiritual body. But because we have become mad, we have identified that this material body as "I am." Therefore And material body means sense gratification. There is no other alternative. To enjoy this material body means to gratify the senses.

*So this sense gratification means, as it is said by Ṛṣabhādeva, na sādhu manye. "I do not think it is very good." Why? Yata asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. If you act irresponsibly, without understanding yourself that you are not this material body, but you are spiritual body, then the result will be continuation of this material body one after another. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Therefore we are all abodha-jātaḥ, born ignorant. Because from the very beginning of our life we know that "I am this body." There is no education in the material world that we are not this body, we are soul. Although there are books of knowledge, just like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but nobody is interested. Therefore they are all mad. They are after the will-o'*-the wisp, phantasmagoria, a wrong conception of life. Therefore all their activities are to be considered as defeat. Parābhavas, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. They are born ignorant, and they will continue to be ignorant, and they will be defeated by all their activities. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he is not awakened to inquire "What I am...?" Simply under madness he is going after this bodily sense enjoyment, but he does not know that he is not this body. Therefore all his activities under this wrong conception of life are to be considered as defeat of his human mission of life. Yes. Just like the Supreme Lord is ānanda-mātram: simply ānanda, bliss, transcendental bliss.

*Therefore there is another verse in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. Yoginaḥ, those who are actually yogi... Yogi means who are trying to reestablish their link with the Absolute Truth. They are called yogis. There are different types of yogi, but the real purpose of yoga means... The ordinary yoga means to find out the Supersoul within yourself, because Supersoul is there. Ramante yoginaḥ anante. So those who are actually yogis, they are not interested in this bodily sense gratification. They want unlimited blissfulness. Ramante yoginaḥ anante satyānande. Satyānande means that is real happiness, which is never to be broken. That is real... Here, whatever we consider happiness... Actually, there is no happiness. But whatever we think that "This is happiness," oh, that will also break. It will not continue. That will also break. So those who are actually yogi, they also, they also enjoy. But how they are enjoying. Satyānande. Real happiness, ramante yoginaḥ anante. And that is unlimited. There is no end. Ramante yoginaḥ anante satyānande cid-ātmani. Cid-ātmani, in full knowledge and eternity. Cit. Cit means knowledge. Here we do not know what sort of enjoyment we are doing. Cid-ātmani. Iti rāma padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. This is the meaning of the word Rāma. We chant daily Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, this word Rāma is explained in this way. Rāma means to enjoy life in the Supreme, transcendental Supreme Personality of Godhead. That means dovetail your activities with Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you will be able to enjoy life eternally, blissfully. This is the purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So in this verse we say, we see that Brahmājī says, paśyāmi viśva*-sṛjam ekam aviśvam ātman: "Now, You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, You are the central point of all manifestation." Visvātman. Bhūtendriyātma, bhūtendriyātmakam adas ta upāśrito 'smi. Bhūtendriya. Now, everything creation... Here we see bhūta, there are so many, multi living entities, and they are enjoying what? Enjoying means with these indriyaḥ, the senses. So bhūtendriyātmakam. So these senses, this body, the spirit of enjoyment, and the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, these are the manifestations. So therefore, upāśrito 'smi. Brahmā says that "I surrender unto me..., unto You."

*tad vā idaṁ bhuvana*-maṅgala maṅgalāya

dhyāne sma no daraśitaṁ ta upāsakānām



*This is the form which is searched after in meditation by persons who are engaged in yoga principle. Tad vā idaṁ bhuvana*-maṅgala maṅgalāya dhyāne. Dhyāne means in meditation. Dhyāne sma no daraśitam: "We have seen this, this form." That means the perfection of meditation is, if one is serious about meditation and if he follows the rules and regulation as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, the sitting posture, and the place, and the procedure, and the modes of eating, modes of living... There are so many things. If somebody follows those regulation and meditates according to that, then ultimately he will see the Supreme Personality of Godhead within himself. Therefore Brahmā said that dhyāne, "While I was in meditation I saw this form." He revealed.



*This form... How one does see the supreme form of Kṛṣṇa? Simply by the method of service. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. If you be engaged in service attitude, then God will reveal Himself unto you. You cannot see God. You... By your tiny effort you cannot see God. This is not possible. Just like in the midnight, darkness, it is not possible to see the sun. You can see sun when sun itself reveals to you. Sun has got a time, say, 4:30 or 5:00 a.m. in the morning, at once reveals. And as soon as the sun reveals itself, you see yourself, you see the sun, and you see the world. And so long you do not see the sun, you are in darkness, the world is in darkness, and you cannot see. Similarly, without seeing the sun, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you cannot have actually the perfect knowledge of this manifestation of this world. The Vedānta*-sūtra, or the Upaniṣad, confirms it: tasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavanti. One who has understood the Absolute Truth, for him, there is nothing unknowable. Everything becomes revealed to him automatically. He hasn't got to exert separately to understand or to study different departments of knowledge. But if he, by the process, if he is able to see, just like Brahmā has seen, then he knows everything. Dhyāne sma no daraśitaṁ ta upāsakānām tasmai namo bhagavate 'nuvidhema tubhyam: "The same Personality of Godhead whom I saw in my meditation, now I see face to face. I offer my respectful obeisances."

*Then he quotes another verse from Bhagavad*-gītā, which is narrated as, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Those who are less intelligent, mūḍha. Mūḍha means... Mūḍha is generally called the ass. Mūḍha. So you can translate it that "less intelligent class of men." Avajānanti mām. When Kṛṣṇa was present... When Kṛṣṇa was present five thousand years before, not that everyone could see Him, because they had no such eye. Suppose if President Johnson comes before us immediately, but if you have no acquaitance, if you have no information of the feature of President Johnson or something, even if he is present we cannot see. We'll think, "Oh, he may be an ordinary gentleman. As others come, he has also come." Similarly, unless we know about Kṛṣṇa by the symptoms... There are two mistakes: to understand God as common man or to accept a common man as God. Both things are mistake. So one has to understand. That understanding is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. God Himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself, is describing about Himself, so there is no difficulty. But unfortunately, we have developed such material consciousness that even God describes Himself, even we see God face to face, because we have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, therefore we cannot see. Therefore we cannot see. So avajānanti māṁ mūḍha. Those who cannot see, they are described here as mūḍha. Mūḍha means foolish or less intelligent class men. So avajānanti māṁ mūḍha mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "Because I am here amongst the human being as a man, therefore those who are less intelligent, they are deriding at Me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam paraṁ bhāvam ajānanta [Bg. 9.11]. "Why they deride? Because they do not know what is My background." Paraṁ bhāvam. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanta, sarva-bhūta-maheśvaram. "They do not know that I am the Supreme Lord, and situated in everyone's heart. Because they do not know, therefore they deride at Me."

tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān

saṁsāreṣu narādhamān

kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān

āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu

[Bg. 16.19]



So if anyone derides the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then... That means we must have impetus to know. But one who has no such impetus, he is called demon, or asura. So asura, one who does not want to understand the position of God, for them, Kṛṣṇa says that tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān. Dviṣataḥ means there is a class who are always envious of God. As soon as you speak something about God, they become fire: "Oh, what is this God nonsense?" So they are dviṣataḥ. Dviṣataḥ means envious. They cannot even tolerate the name of God. "Don't talk of God." So it is not now individually infection; *it is now worldwide. And therefore, the result is that the Communist party is developing all over the world due to this godlessness. And we have got experience, personal experience, in our selling our books, the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. I have seen many gentlemen, as teachers and educationists. As soon as he sees Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, "Oh, it is about God. Oh, we cannot purchase. We cannot purchase. Because it is God, therefore we have no connection with it. We cannot purchase." Such is the mentality. So that, by that such mentality, godless mentality, atheistic mentality, the people of the world, they are not happy. But still, they are fools. Because they are fools, they'll not take to God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But it is our duty to canvass, to request.



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu's one disciple, Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he took up a nice principle: dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi. His principle was that he would go to a gentleman, taking a straw in the mouth. According to Indian system, if you take a straw in your mouth, and if you go to see somebody, he'll understand, "He is coming to me with most humble manner," so he'll receive you. "He's surrendered soul." So he will at least say, "Oh, what do you want to say?" So dante nidhāya. This is the sign. If you want to go to some big man, and if you take one straw in your mouth, he'll accept. He will receive you. That is the system. So dante nidhāya tṛṇakam. So Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he says that "I have taken the straw in my mouth." Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya. "And I am falling down at your feet." Padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāham. "And I am flattering you in hundreds and thousands ways." Why? Why you are so humble? What is the intention? Kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi: "I want to say something. Please hear." "All right. Say it. What is that?" He sādhava, "Oh, you are very learned man and you are very honest man." He sādhava sakalam eva vihāya dūrād. "For the time being, so long I shall speak, whatever you have learned, please set aside. Please set aside." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Kindly hear for some time about the topics which Caitanya Mahāprabhu has presented before you." We are servant of Lord Caitanya. So, in the disciplic succession we are trying to present. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu's topic is yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Whoever you meet, please try to convince him about Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So in order to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he says that "I have taken straw in my mouth and I am falling down to your feet and I am flattering you in so many ways. Kindly, for the time being, you forget whatever you have learned. Please try to hear about the Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This should be the preaching method. Because you cannot enforce. You cannot enforce. The atheistic party, the godless civilization is so strong. So you are not weak. You are protected by the Supreme. But our mission is not to fight, but our mission is to convince. So this is the method to be accepted by devotees, those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to preach the philosophy in the world.

Thank you very much. (end)



670124CC.SF

*Śrī Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 25.40-50

-

San Francisco, January 24, 1967



Prabhupāda:



...saṁsāreṣu narādhamān

kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān

āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu



*This is a verse from Bhagavad*-gītā, that those who are deriding upon God, "God, there is no God; *I am God," they are called asuras. Asuras, atheists, or demons. The demons... The Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa personally says that tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān [Bg. 16.19]. Those who are such envious upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the result is that they are thrown into perpetual ignorance, and born life after life where they cannot understand what is God. Because they want to forget God, therefore God puts them into such condition that they will never be able to understand what is God. This is the version from Bhagavad*-gītā by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*That means the condition of the atheists are always abominable. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān [Bg. 16.19]. Saṁsāreṣu. Saṁsāra means this material entanglement. This is called saṁsāra. And narādhama. They are called the lowest of the human kind, because human life is especially meant for God realization, self*-realization. So instead of realizing oneself and the Supreme Self, if one derides, doesn't want to understand what is God, what is God consciousness, what is Kṛṣṇa, he is to be understood as the lowest of the mankind, narādhama. Adhama means lowest. Or, in other words, he is an animal in the form of a man. Narādhameṣu. And birth after birth, such atheist is put into the species of life where there is no chance of understanding God. There are different species, we have discussed. Even in human society there are some species or class, that it is not possible for them to understand what is God at all. Not even the idea. Generally, even the aborigines, they have got some sense of God. Whenever they find something extraordinary, just like lightening, or a great hill, or a great tree, they offer their respect. So that is sense of God. Sense of God is there in everyone's heart. Unless he is an animal, everyone heart there is. Artificially, we try to drive away this obedience. But there are other Even in the civilized society, there are persons, they are put into such a circumstances that they will never be able to understand what is God consciousness or what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are so misfortunate. And as soon as one becomes godless or forgetful (of) his eternal relationship with God, then his life is immediately condemned.

*sūtrera pariṇāma*-vāda tāhā nā māniyā

*vivarta*-vāda sthāpe vyāsa bhrānta baliyā



ei ta' kalpita arthamane nāhi bhāya

śāstra chāḍi kukalpanā pāṣaṇḍe bujhāya



*So that disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī admitted that godlessness in Vedānta*-sūtra is not the purpose. Actually, by misinterpreting the Vedānta-sūtra they want to establish that "There is no God; *we are God." So after explanation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at least there was one convert amongst all the sannyāsīs, and he was glorifying Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Eta sei kare kṛṣṇa*-saṅkīrtana. And while he was glorifying Lord Caitanya, automatically he began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Śuni' prakāśānanda kichu kahena vacana. When his disciple was glorifying Lord Caitanya and His process of teaching, his spiritual master, Prakāśānanda, said like this: ācāryera āgraha-advaita-vāda sthāpite. He admitted... Ācārya means Śaṅkarācārya. He means here Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya wanted that there is only one Brahman and we are also Brahman, but he wanted his philosophy of monism. Dualism, God and living entity separate, they do not admit. They admit that God and living entity the same. It is simply for the time being covered, which is called māyā. Māyāvāda philosophy. So the Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī also admitted that because Śaṅkarācārya wanted to establish his philosophy of monism, therefore he had to cover the real meaning of Vedānta-sūtra.



*Tāte sūtrārtha vyākhyā kare anya rīte jani. Anya rīte, in a different interpretation. He was a very learned scholar. If a scholar likes to present something in a different way... Just like an expert lawyer, he can get out of the entanglement of law by jugglery of words and interpretation, he is called a big lawyer, similarly, there are philosophers who can put different theories and not admit the existence of God. So Śaṅkarācārya's real purpose was no existence of God, because he had a very thankless task. He was dealing with the persons who are Buddhists. They did not believe anything except matter. So for them, to establish that there is God, it is very difficult. Therefore he adopted this means that "There is no separate God. We are all God. You are God, I am God." And a demonic person, if he is addressed, "Oh, you are God," oh, he becomes very happy because he does not become responsible to any higher authority. He becomes God. He can do anything. He can perform any nonsense. Nobody is going to punish him. It is very nice theory, that "I have become God. Because I have no more..." Suppose you yourself become the government of United States. Then you can do anything. It is very nice. "I am everything: I am president, I am secretary, I am everything. Therefore who is going to check me? I can do any nonsense." This is the basic principle of godlessness-to avoid the higher authority. Just like already in your country, that class of youngsters who are defying any authority. Not only in your country-in other countries also*-that has become a fashion, to defy authorities. So this godlessness is also like that, to defy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no practically difference between Buddha philosophy and Śaṅkara's philosophy. Buddha philosophy says that the matter is everything. Beyond matter there is nothing, everything void, and the combination of matter is the source of our miseries. So you make a dismantlement of the matter, nirvāṇa-there will be no more miseries. And Śaṅkara's philosophy says that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. It is little, little farther advanced, admitting the spirit, but he says that spirit is impersonal. "There is no God. It is impersonal." So practically the same thing: ultimately, it is void or there is no God.

But Vedānta philosophy does not say that. Vedānta philosophy, from the very beginning it asserts that athāto brahma jijñāsā, "Now it is the time for discussing on the Absolute Truth." And what is that Absolute Truth? Janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "Absolute Truth is the summum bonum substance from which everything emanates."

*yei grantha*-kartā cāhe sva-mata sthāpite

śāstrera sahaja artha nahe tāṅhā haite



*This is the secret of modern fashionable interpretation. If you want to establish... Suppose you have got some conviction, and if you want to establish it by evidence of an approved literature... An approved literature. Just like Gandhi. Gandhi wanted to establish nonviolence from Bhagavad*-gītā. He was a... He is known to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he was not at all. His political theory was that he wanted to conquer over the enemies by nonviolence method. Nonviolent noncooperation, that was his, I mean to say, theory. He wanted to get away all kinds of nonviolence from the world, all kinds of violence from the world. So he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. But how you can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Because Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the violent battlefield. But because he wanted to prove nonviolence, therefore he says, "Oh, these Pāṇḍavas means this. This Kṛṣṇa means this. This chariot means this. These Kurus means this. Dharmakṣetra means this. Kurukṣetra means this." He has invented and manufactured so many rascal meaning that it is very difficult... He said that dharmakṣetre... In the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā there is the verse, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. Now the very word yuyutsavaḥ means persons who are desiring to fight with one another. Now, how you can prove nonviolence? But he extracts some meaning: "These Pāṇḍava means five senses and the Kurukṣetra means this body." In this way, his interpretation.



*Therefore, all different interpretation... The Vedic literature, either take Bhāgavata or Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā, or any Upaniṣad, the meaning is very clear. It is sheer foolishness to understand that "The meaning is vague, now I am clearing. I am a great scholar. I can interpret in a different way." So... As if Vyāsadeva left the meaning to be cleared by some rascal. You see? He was not himself competent to clear the meaning, but he left the work to be done by some rascal. That is their interpretation. But actually it is not. In every śloka, if you know Sanskrit, you'll see the meaning is clear. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. There was actual some fight between the two cousin groups, and they fought at the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. That Kurukṣetra is still existing. If you go to India that... There is a railway station, Kurukṣetra. It is about 150 miles from Delhi. And people go there for pilgrimage. Therefore it is dharmakṣetra, a place of religious rites. And in the Vedas, Sāma-Veda, I think... I don't exactly remember. But one of the Vedas it is written that kurukṣetre dharma yajayet. In the Kurukṣetra, that place, if anyone wants to perform religious rites, he should go to Kurukṣetra and perform there. It will have better effect. This is the indication in the Vedic literatures. Therefore Kurukṣetra is still accepted. Those who travel, wander in pilgrimages, they go to Kurukṣetra still. The system is going on. If there is a lunar eclipse, they go to Kurukṣetra to make some charities. So Kurukṣetra is accepted from the very, very long period in the Vedic age as the place of pilgrimage. So it is stated there, dharmakṣetra. How can I interpret that this Kurukṣetra means this body? In which dictionary he finds this meaning? But people are so foolish, because Mahatma Gandhi has interpreted, "Oh, it is right." So this is going on.

*So, yei grantha*-kartā cāhe sva-mata... If anyone wants to establish his own foolish theory, he takes advantage of popular book and tries to explain in his own way. So in other words it is clear that Śaṅkarācārya, he wanted to establish this theory of monism, and therefore he has explained Vedānta-sūtra in his own way, but that is not the actual explanation. What Lord Caitanya said, that is real explanation. All of them admitted. And this Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he also admitted. Bhagavattā mānile advaita nā yāya sthāpana. Now, they wanted to establish the theory of monism, no difference between living entity and God, one; *there is no separate God. Then, if admit, if it is admitted that God is the source of everything, then you have to accept duality. Because the source of everything and the everything emanated*-duality.

tāte sūtrārtha vyākhyā kare anya rīte



'bhagavattā' mānile 'advaita' nā yāya sthāpana

ataeva saba śāstra karaye khaṇḍana



*Because the whole aim was to get away the existence of God, therefore all the Vedic literature was..., were interpreted by Śaṅkarācārya in his own way. Still it is going on. That process is still going on. Although there are many, I mean to say, explanation of Vedānta*-sūtra by the Vaiṣṇava sampradāyas. Just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... Every Vaiṣṇava sampradāya has his own explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. Don't understand Vedantist means the monopoly by Śaṅkara sampradāya. No. But people in general, they understand Vedantist means Śaṅkara sampradāya. Because the devotee class, they do not give much importance to Vedānta. Because they read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is accepted by the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, especially by the sect of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as the real explanation of Vedānta; *therefore they do not give any other explanation of Vedānta than Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. And because the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya does not give very much importance to Vedānta-sūtra-because the explanation is there, they are reading actually Vedānta-sūtra-people misunderstand that the Vedantist, followers of Vedānta, is the Śaṅkara sampradāya, not this Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. That is their misunderstanding.



*Actually, any sampradāya, either the Śaṅkara sampradāya or Vedānta*-sampradāya, if they have no standing on the Vedānta-sūtra, they are not recognized. They are (not) recognized. In... The Indian system is, in the spiritual society, that if you have got any sampradāya, particular, then you must present your explanation of Vedānta-sūtra how do you understand Vedānta-sūtra. On the basis of that understanding you will be recognized. So the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, they are also Vedantists. And because Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, they are concerned with the bhakti, bhakti, I mean to say, cult, therefore our society, the Vaiṣṇavas, they were pleased to give me this title, Bhaktivedanta, that "You will explain the Vedānta-sūtra." So this Bhaktivedanta title was especially offered to me, and I do not know why. That's all.

So that Vedānta means bhakti, devotional service. That is the Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And Vedānta means, for the Śaṅkara sampradāya, that "There is no God. I am God." Mīmāṁsaka kahe īśvara haya karmera aṅga. You know there are six kinds of philosophies in India: the mīmāṁsaka philosophy; and Sāṅkhya philosophy; *and nyāya*-nyāya means logic-nyāya philosophy; then Māyāvāda philosophy; then Patañjali, yoga system, Patanjali philosophy; *and at last, this Vedānta philosophy. So there are six kinds of philosophers. Out of them, only the Vedānta philosophy is compiled by Vyāsadeva. So it is considered that Vedānta philosophy only establishes the existence of God. All other philosophies, they do not admit the existence of God. They are atheistic philosophies. Mīmāṁsaka. Mīmāṁsaka means they have decided that "There is no necessity of worshiping God. If there is any God, all right, you do your duty nicely, and He will be obliged to award you the required result. Then there is no question of flattering Him." That is mīmāṁsaka philosophy. Just like in government, there are so many departments. So you need not to flatter him, but you do your duty, you pay your tax, you abide by the laws, then everything will be right. You need not worship any person. That is their philosophy, mīmāṁsa karma*-mīmāṁsa. Everyone is... Under the spell of karma, everyone is suffering or enjoying as the result of his past deeds. So the karma-mīmāṁsaka philosopher says, "There is no necessity of worshiping God. You do your duty." Just like some moralists say that "What is the use of God, God, Hare Kṛṣṇa? Just do your duty." But he does not know that what is his duty. The duty is only to worship God, and nothing more. That is the duty. All other duties are māyā's spell only. There is no other duty. Because this human life is meant for that duty. The animals cannot execute that duty. Only the human being. Therefore our only duty is to understand God and engage ourself in that way. So these different kinds of philosophies are there. We shall gradually discuss.

Thank you very much. (end)

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad* Lectures





700427IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad* Invocation Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, April 27, 1970



*Prabhupāda: There is complete facility because pūrṇam, whatever is done by Kṛṣṇa, that is complete. You cannot find out any flaw in it. His potencies are so complete that svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca. Just like a child, if you laugh, immediately crying response. So these things are not to be learned. Svābhāvikī, automatically. Similarly, because Kṛṣṇa, or God, is complete, whatever He does, it is complete. You cannot find out any flaw. You cannot say, "Oh, why God has done this?" Just like sometimes some foolish persons, they say, "Why God has made somebody poor and somebody rich?" This is most foolish question. Yes. If God has done it, then it is complete. There is no flaw. Just like if the state orders somebody to be murdered, to be killed, that is complete. You cannot find out any law, er, any flaw. That is complete execution of the law. So if we cannot find out in man-made laws, how we can find out a fault in God-made laws? That is not possible.



*So if you want to get out of this entanglement, there is complete arrangement, facility, complete facility. Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. There is another verse, that "Those who are engaged in devotional service," Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22], "I take personal charge for their maintenance." This is complete arrangement. Just look to the karmī world. Now, so far we are concerned, we have to pay installment, two thousand dollars for this house, and we have to spend another two thousand dollars for our maintenance. So four thousand, five thousand dollars we are spending. Can any karmī depend like that? Take practical example. Can they depend for paying five thousand dollars bills without any arrangement? They will have no sleep at night. And we are freely moving, because we are sure that Kṛṣṇa will provide, and He is providing. Go anywhere in the karmī's world. Find out such nice place, just like our temple. There is none. Whole Los Angeles city, you cannot find. Such beautiful faces, such bright faces, you cannot find anywhere. So this is complete facility. If you want to take advantage of your life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is complete facility. Come to the practical point. There is no theoretical. It is practical, experimented.

So therefore there is complete facility for the small complete units. We are complete units, small. God is great and we are small. So small... Just like a big machine, and there is a small screw. So the complete facility, completeness of that small screw, is to become fitted in the particular place. Then it has got value. And if it is out of touch of the machine, falls down, it has no value. So complete facility is there. Just yourself dovetail into that hole and the screw is placed there, oh, it has value. When a screw is lost, you have to purchase from the store at the cost of two dollars. And when it is fallen down, it is not even worth one cent. The same screw. [break] So we are complete units so long we are attached to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise useless.

ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād

*ātma*-prabhavam īśvaram

na bhajanty (avajānanti)

sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ



*Why India is fallen down? Because the so*-called rascals, they are claiming that "I am brāhmaṇa." But what is our occupation, sir? "Oh, I am serving as a coolie." Is that brāhmaṇa's business? Actually I have seen, India, a person, telawalaji (?), born of a brāhmaṇa family, and he's pulling hand cart with great labor. And some foolish person also offering respect, and he is offering blessings while drawing the cart. (laughter) I have seen it. You see? These things are going on. He does not know that "Now I am fallen. Why should I claim as brāhmaṇa? I am cheating."



*So one should keep in his own position. If you want to become a brāhmaṇa, then you keep your position as the mouth of the Lord. Simply if you take thread ceremony and become something else, no, then you don't take the advantage, facility. Mouth of the Lord is when Kṛṣṇa speaks from His mouth. He spoke the Bhagavad-gītā from His mouth. So if you keep yourself to the business of His mouth, then you have to preach. Then you are a brāhmaṇa. Mukha-bāhūru-pāda-jāḥ. As we have got divisions in this body*-this mouth, the arm, the belly, and the leg-similarly, the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, virāṭ-puruṣa, His mouth is these brāhmaṇas, His arms are the kṣatriyas, His belly is the vaiśyas, and the legs are the śūdras. Or the brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So they have got different position in the different parts of the body of the whole, complete whole. So if you keep to your position and act like that, take the facility, then you are complete. Otherwise, like the screw, you are thrown away. You have no value.

*So here it is stated, "There is complete facility for the small complete units, namely the living being, to realize the complete." To realize the complete, what is my relationship with the complete. "And all forms of incompleteness are experienced only on account of incomplete knowledge of the complete." We are thinking that "I am equal to God. I am God." This is incomplete knowledge. But if you know that "I am part and parcel of God," that is complete knowledge. The Māyāvādī philosophers, the atheists, they are claiming that "Who is God? I am God." That is incomplete knowledge. "The human form of life is a complete manifestation of the consciousness." Now, this complete consciousness you can revive in this human form of life. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand. So if you don't take the facility, then you are ātma*-hanaḥ janāḥ. You are killing yourself, committing suicide. As it is said, ātmā andhena tamasāvṛtāḥ tāṁs te pretyābhigacchanti ye ke cātma-hano janāḥ. After death, pretyābhi... Pretya means after death. So don't be ātma-hano janāḥ. Utilize your life in complete facility. That is our business.

Thank you. (end)



700428IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad* Invocation Lecture

-

Los Angeles, April 28, 1970



Gargamuni: It's on page twelve, almost in the middle. The second paragraph. "The universe has its own time, fixed by the energy of the complete whole, and when that time is complete, this temporary manifestation will be annihilated by the complete arrangement of the complete."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything in this material world, it has got a fixed time. And within that fixed time there are six kinds of changes. First birth, then growth, then to stay, then to produce by-product, then dwindling, then vanish. This is the law of material nature. This flower takes birth, just like a bud, then grows, then stays for two, three days, then it produces a seed, by-product, then dries up gradually, then finish. (aside:) You sit down like this. So this is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes. So you cannot stop this by your so-called material science. No. This is avidyā. People are trying to save themselves, and sometimes talking foolishly that by scientific knowledge man will be immortal. You cannot stop the process of the material laws. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. The process of material nature, which is composed of three qualities-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa... Tri-guṇa. Another meaning of guṇa is rope. Just like you have seen rope, they're twisted in three process. First of all thin rope, then three of them, they are rolled, then again three of them rolled, then again three. It becomes very strong. So these three qualities, sattva, raja, tamo-guṇa, they are mixed up. Again they produce some by-product, again mixed up, again mixed up. In this way eighty*-one times they're twisted. So guṇamayī māyā, binding you more and more. So you cannot get out of this binding of this material world. Binding. So therefore it is called apavarga. This process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means nullifying the pavarga process.



Yesterday I was explaining what is this pavarga to Gargamuni. This pavarga means the line of the alphabet pa. You know, those who have studied this devanāgarī. There are devanāgarī alphabets, ka kha ga gha na ca cha ja jha na. In this way five set, one line. Then come the fifth set, comes pa pha va bha ma. So this pavarga means pa. First of all pa. Pa means parava, defeat. Everyone is trying, struggling very hard to survive, but defeated. First pavarga. Pa means parava. And then pha. Pha means foaming. Just like horse, when working very hard, you'll find some foams coming out of the mouth, we sometimes also, when we are very tired after working very hard, the tongue becomes dry and some foam comes. So everyone is working very hard for sense gratification, but defeated. The pa, pha, and va. Va means this bondage. So first pa, second pha, the bondage third, then va, bha. Bha means beating, fearfulness. And then ma. Ma means mrtyu, or death. So this Kṛṣṇa conscious process is apavarga, apa. A means none. Pavarga, these are the symptoms of this material world. And when you add this word a, apavarga, that means it is nullified.

*So... (aside:) You can sit down. This apavarga*-vartmani. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the path of apavarga, nullifying these pavargas.

*satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya*-saṁvido

*bhavanti hṛt*-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ

*taj*-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani

śraddhā (ratir) bhaktir anukramiṣyati

[SB 3.25.25]



*Satāṁ prasaṅgān. This discussion, this is called satāṁ prasaṅgān, discussion. Just like there are many conferences, assembly, they have got different types of talks. Just like we were discussing last week, śrotavyādīni rājendra... [SB 2.1.2], apaśyatām ātma*-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Discussion. Those who are blind for self-realization, they do not take care, they have got many things to discuss. But so far Kṛṣṇa conscious people are concerned, their subject matter of discussion is one: apavarga-vartmani, the path of disintegration. How it is happen? Satāṁ prasaṅgān. When you form this society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society, and you discuss about this apavarga from the authoritative literature, just we are doing, then it becomes relishable. You cannot discuss all these thing with a storekeeper. That will be not relishable. Satāṁ prasaṅgān, amongst the devotees. If you take this Īśopaniṣad and you ask one butcher or a man like that, "Come on. We shall discuss," he'll throw away. The other day we were coming on this Venice Boulevard. Gargamuni gave one card to a boy. You remember? (laughs) He immediately threw away. They have no taste. So you cannot discuss all this transcendental knowledge with these demons. Satāṁ prasaṅgān. Therefore you have to discuss... Therefore we are opening so many centers, that people may take advantage of his society. Because anywhere else he'll not have the opportunity. His life is being spoiled. The modern civilization is like that. It is a killing civilization, ātma-hā. Ātma-hano janāḥ. All these people are killing themselves because they do not know what is life; *simply like animal or living. The animal does not know what is life, but he is under the laws of nature, evolution, going on. But when you get this human form of life, there is responsibility. You have to chalk out. Here is a chance you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make your life solve all problems. If not, then again go to the cycle of birth and death again, 8,400,000. It will take many, many millions of years again to come back. Just like the sunshine you will see after twelve hours, twenty*-four hours, morning. Everything is a process. Process. So if you lose this opportunity of elevating yourself, then again you come to the process. Nature's law is very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. The sooner you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Such person is able to overcome this process of material nature.



So here it is said the universe has its own time, fixed by the energy of the complete whole. Universe is also big gigantic body, material body. That's all. Just like your body; *everything is relative. Modern science, the law of relativity. An atom, a small particle, small ant, so it has got a relative life, you have got relative life. Similarly this gigantic body, it may be many millions of years this universe will exist, but it will not exist forever. That is a fact. Because it is very gigantic, therefore it may remain for some millions of years, but it will end. That is the law of nature. And when that time is complete, this temporary manifestation will be annihilated by the complete arrangement of the complete, the supreme complete. When your time will be complete, no more, sir, in this body. Nobody can check. The arrangement is so strong. You cannot say, "Let me remain." Actually it happens. When I was in India, Allahabad, one of our, an old friend, he was very rich man. So he was dying. So he was requesting the doctor, "Can you not give me at least four years to live? I have got some plan, you see. I could not finish it." You see. Āśā*-pāśa-śatair baddhāḥ. This is demonic. Everyone thinks that "Oh, I have to do this. I have to do this." No. The doctors or doctors' fathers or his father, no scientist can check. "Oh, no, sir. No four years. Not even four minutes. You have to go immediately." This is the law. So before that moment comes, one should be very dexterous to realize Kṛṣṇa conscious. Tūrṇam yateta. Tūrṇam means very swiftly, very quickly you should realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anu... Next, before the death, next death comes, you must finish your business. That is intelligence. Otherwise defeat.

Thank you. (end)



681030IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 1

-

Los Angeles, October 30, 1968



(incomplete lecture)

Prabhupāda: Open the page. Read.



Devotee: Page eighteen. Page eighteen. "The root of sin is deliberate disobedience to the laws of nature through not recognizing the proprietorship of the Lord; disobedience to the laws of nature, or disobedience to the order of the Lord of a human, to the human being. On the other hand, if one is sober and knows the laws of nature, without being influenced by unnecessary attachment or abhorrence, he is sure to be recognized again by the Lord and thus become eligible for going back to Godhead, back to the eternal home." [Īśo mantra 1]



Prabhupāda: Hmm. So the natural law, without being influenced by unnecessary attachment, or abhorrence. There is no need of attachment for this material world; *neither there is need of abhorrence. That is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Suppose we are sitting in this temple. So, of course, for temple we should have attachment. Ordinary home, or ordinary house, temple... We must explain. The temple is transcendental. According to Vedic civilization, to live in the forest is residential quarter in goodness, to live in the forest. Therefore, formerly, great sages and saintly persons, they used to go to the forest and live there. And the government would give them protection. The king's duty was to supply them food. What sort of food? The king used to give them in charity cows, nice cows. So they would take little milk, and whatever fruits are available in the forest, that was sufficient for them. And the king would sometimes hunt ferocious animals so that they may not disturb. But actually, they do not disturb saintly persons still. So to live in the forest is in the mode of goodness, and to live in the city, or town, is..., is in the mode of passion, and to live in slaughterhouse and brothel and drunkards, these are the residential quarter in ignorance. And to live in the temple is transcendental, above goodness, pure goodness. In the material world goodness is sometimes mixed up with ignorance and passion, but in the spiritual world there is pure goodness*-no contamination or tinges of passion and ignorance. Therefore it is called śuddha-sattva. Śuddha-sattva. Śabdam, sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam: "That pure goodness is called Vasudeva, and in that pure goodness one can realize God." Therefore God's name is Vāsudeva, "produced from Vasudeva." Vasudeva is the father of Vāsudeva.



*So unless we come to the standard of pure goodness, without any tinge of passion and ignorance, it is not possible, God realization. Therefore bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Jñāna is the platform of goodness, and karma is the platform of passion and ignorance. So bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Cc. Madhya 19.167], without any material desires, devoid of, freed from all kinds of material desire and uncovered by ignorance, passion and goodness. Goodness also. To become very good man in this world, that does not mean that he is freed from this material contamination. He's contaminated by the goodness quality. Just like Arjuna. He wanted to be very good man. Kṛṣṇa said, "Now fight." He said, "Oh, how can I fight? Oh, they are my brothers, they are my grandfathers. No, no, no. Better I shall beg. I don't want this kingdom." So this is material goodness. People appreciate very much: "Oh, just see. Arjuna is giving up claim on the kingdom." But what Kṛṣṇa replied? Kṛṣṇa said, "Wherefrom you got this foolish idea?" Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "This is for non-Aryans, not for Aryans." So this so-called goodness, so-called gentlemanliness, has no value in the spiritual world. Spiritual world-complete love of God, without any attachment for this... So Arjuna, this goodness, means attachment for his family. That's all. He was becoming a good man. Why? Because there is attachment for his family, for his grandfather, for his brother, nephews. So, so long there is attachment for this material world, either in the form of goodness or passion or ignorance, they're all the same. In the transcendental platform... Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that in this material world, the divisions that "This is good, and this is bad," they are simply mental concoction. The same example: the stool dried up is good, and the wet is not good. Stool is stool. That's all. For a devotee, this is stool. Either it may be dried up or moist, it doesn't matter. So those who are in ignorance and passion, they're little moist, and those who are in goodness, they're dried up. But after all, it is stool. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. There is no consideration of this goodness or badness. You have to give up all material attachment. And abhorrence. Abhorrence is also another negative attachment. "I don't like this." That means I have attachment for this "don't like." You see? [break] A devotee is simply attached to the service of the Lord and... (end)



700429IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 1

-

Los Angeles, April 29, 1970



Gargamuni: (chants Mantra One, transliteration, etc.)



īśāvāsyam idam sarvaṁ

yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā

mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam

[Īśo mantra 1]



"Translation: Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one must not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong."



Prabhupāda: Now, here is a statement that everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. What you are, inanimate or animate?



Devotees: Animate.



Prabhupāda: Animate. Do you think you are controlled or not controlled?



Devotees: Controlled.



Prabhupāda: Is there any person here who is not controlled?



Devotees: No.



Prabhupāda: Or anywhere within this universe who is not controlled? Can anyone say that "I am not controlled"? Nobody can say. So if you are controlled, then why you are going to declare yourself that "I am uncontrolled. I am independent. I am God"? Why this nonsense? If you are controlled... Is God, does it mean that He is controlled? They are claiming that "I am God." Is there any meaning? If I am controlled, then how I can become God? This is commonsense affair. Therefore this Māyāvādī philosophy that "Everyone is God. I am God; *you are God...," Just like the other, who was speaking, that Meher Baba's... Yes. That he was speaking, "I am God, you are God." So God is never controlled. If somebody is controlled, immediately he is not God. This is simple definition, that God is not controlled. If somebody claims that he is God, then first of all question "Whether you are controlled or not controlled?" Common sense. Nobody can say that he's not controlled. I have seen a rascal, he has got a society and he is preaching this, that "I am God." But one day I saw him, he had some toothache, and he was doing, "ohhh." (laughter) So I questioned him that "You claim that you are God, and now you are simply under the control of toothache. So what kind of God you are?" (laughter) You see. So these societies, those who are claiming that "I am God. You are God. Everyone God"-God has become so cheap that everyone is God*-you immediately should know he's a rascal number one. Immediately. As soon as he says, "I am God," you must know that "Here is a rascal number one."



*So nobody is uncontrolled. Now, so many big, big planets, huge planets... This earth planet is only... It's a minute, small planet, and still, you'll see, on this planet there are so big oceans like Atlantic and Pacific, and so big mountains, and what to speak of your skyscraper buildings. With all this load it is floating in the air just like a swab of cotton. Who is controlling? Can you float even a small piece of grain in the space? You can say "Law of gravity" and so many other things, but you cannot utilize it. Or you can put it in... Your machine, airplane, is running on the space*-but so long the machine is working. As soon as your petrol is finished, immediately it will fall down. Immediately. But these big, big planets... This is only one of the small. The sun planet is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet. So that is also... We can see the sun is floating in one corner of this big space. So how you can say that it is not controlled, it is floating out of its own self? No. The answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "I enter into this material planets, and then I keep it floating." Gām āviśya aham [Bg. 15.13], dhārayāmy aham ojasā. Dhārayāmy aham ojasā. Something mak... Just like you float this airplane; *so somebody has entered within it, that driver or pilot. So actually, he is keeping this airplane floating, not the machine. This is simple truth. So if you take this analogy, then this planet is floating, there must be somebody entering here. Somebody must have entered. So Kṛṣṇa says, "I have entered." So what is the difficulty to understand how it is keeping floating? The analogy is there. Everyone can understand that this big airplane is floating in the sky because the pilot has entered within it. Similarly, if this planet is floating, then somebody, either you or somebody, God, has entered it. And that answer is there in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that "I enter into these planets and therefore I keep them floating." That is our answer. And the scientists, they say the law of gravitation... How far it is true...

*But we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Our process is that. We don't accept any other process of knowledge. Our knowledge is to receive the knowledge from the authority, and that is fact. That is first*-class knowledge. If you get one authority who can speak on the subject matter, and if you take that knowledge, that is perfect. There are three kinds of processes to receive knowledge. The first: we believe direct sense perception, pratyakṣa. Just like somebody says, "Can you show me God?" That means they are Pratyakṣavādi. They want to see everything direct, experience everything directly. This class of men says that "Can you show me God?" But this is not first-class knowledge. Suppose you ask me, "Can you show me God?" I say, "Yes, I can show you God." "Show me." "I'll show you. So this is God." Will you believe it? Suppose you are asking me, "Can you show me God?" I say, "Yes, I can show you." "What is that God?" "Here is God," I say. So will you accept it that this microphone is God? What is the answer? Huh? Why no?

Viṣṇujana: Doesn't have the qualifications.



Prabhupāda: No. If you ask me, "Can you show me God," I show anything, whatever I like, "Yes, here it is, God..." Or why God? Suppose you go to a store. So you ask something, "Can you give me gold?" He'll give you a scrap of iron: "Yes, here it is gold. Take it." So what you will say? What will be the answer? Huh? If you ask... You go to a storekeeper. You do not know where to purchase gold, but you are in need of some gold, and you go to a storekeeper and ask him, "Have you got gold in stock?" So he'll immediately understand that here is a rascal number one, because he has come to purchase gold in a store, ordinary store. If one has to purchase gold, he must go where gold is sold. But he has come to ordinary store to purchase; *therefore he's a first*-class rascal. So therefore he'll try to cheat him: "Here is a gold." He gives a piece of iron. Then what he will say? He will accept that iron as gold? Huh? Why no? He does not know what is gold, and he has gone to a store to purchase it, and he gives him one piece of iron, "Here is gold." So he'll purchase it. He'll be cheated. Similarly, those rascals who say that "Can you show me God?" so they must know what is God; otherwise he'll be cheated. That is being done.



So if you want to purchase gold, at least you must have some preliminary knowledge what is gold. Characteristics. Just like in the chemical laboratory, they test. Suppose in the pharmacy or... This is the government law, that whatever you accept some chemicals or some drug, you must test it, and the testing characteristics are stated there. Just like soda bicarb: the color is like this, the constitution is like this, the reaction is like this, the taste is like this. So a chemist in the laboratory corroborate the characteristic, then accept it, "Yes, it is soda bicarb." Similarly, if you want to know God, of if you want to see God, then first thing is that you must know what is the characteristics of God. Otherwise, if you go to another rascal and you ask him, "Can you show me God," and he shows you something nonsense, you accept it God, is that very nice thing? This is going on. "I want to see God." What qualification you have got to see God? He does not consider his qualification that "Whether I can see God?"

*So we do not teach such cheap things. That is our program. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not to present something nonsense and present something cheap. If you want to see God just face to face, not fiction, then you must follow the rules and regulation, you must chant, you must purify yourself. Then gradually, svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. You must wait. The time will come. When you are purified, you'll see God. Not that immediately, in your present position. But God is so kind, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, even in your present position He is present, arcā*-vigraha. He's open to be seen by everyone, whether he knows and whether he does not know what is God. This arcā-vigraha is not idol; *it is not imagination. They are... The knowledge is received from the superior ācāryas. Brahma*-saṁhitā: veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam [Bs. 5.30]. The description is there. So God realization, if you follow that... Immediately, by your blunt senses, either God, His form, His name, His quality, His paraphernalia cannot be perceived. The present senses are blunt. Therefore in the present situation or the civilization they have become godless, because naturally they have no power to understand God, neither they are guided by some persons who can make them understand what is God. Therefore people are becoming godless, atheist. But if you read all these Vedic literatures under superior guidance, if you follow the rules and regulation, then svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. God will be revealed unto you. You cannot see God or understand God by your own endeavor. You have to surrender to the process by which God can be known. Then He will be revealed. Otherwise not. He is supreme controller. You are being controlled. So how you can control God? "Oh, God, please come here. I will see You." No, no. God is not so cheap thing that by your order God will come and become seen by you. No. That is not possible. You must always know that "He's the supreme controller and I am also controlled. So if I can please God by my service, then He'll reveal to me." That is the process of knowing God.

Thank you very much. (end)



700430IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 1

-

Los Angeles, April 30, 1970



Prabhupāda: (chants mantras) Who will explain? Karandhara Prabhu, you will explain? First or second. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause) Which one?



Karandhara: Second verse?



Prabhupāda: Yes, any one, if you can... Whatever you have realized, you can say without seeing the book. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Yes...



*Karandhara: Everything animate or inanimate in this world is controlled and owned by Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is described that there are two types of energies of Kṛṣṇa, parā prakṛti and aparā prakṛti, the superior energy and the inferior energy. The inferior energy is made up of the gross elements, earth, air, fire, water, and the subtle energy or the subtle material elements are the sky..., excuse me, mind, intelligence and false ego. These make up the parā prakṛti, or the inferior energy of the Lord. But the living entities, they are the superior energy of the Lord. They are aparā prakṛti; *henceforth, due to their illusion, their misconception, they are trying to lord it over the parā prakṛti, uh, uh, aparā prakṛti, the inferior energy of the Lord. And they have become entangled. They have become covered by the gross elements. So when one is realizing who the source of the energies, of all these energies are..., who are the proprietor, who are the controller of the energy, then by the Lord's mercy, the Lord being the controller of all these energies, that entity can become free from the covering, from the influence of the material energy, and can resume his natural constitutional position as superior energy and function on that platform in realization of both energies and his relationship with the supreme energy of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. One should not..., one should only accept that which is set aside for him that which is needed. The lusty desire to gain more, for acquiring more*-this lust, this perversion, this misunderstanding is exactly what enamors the living entity, parā prakṛti, in the inferior energy, aparā prakṛti. So when one can come to this understanding, that everything is controlled, everything is owned by the Supreme Lord, and that he has no proprietorship, then he can give up this false (conception) of "mine" and "I" and realize that the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, He is the controller, He is the owner, and can once again regain his natural, blissful state, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1].



Prabhupāda: Why a living entity is superior energy? Can anyone explain? Why living...? Yes? Stand up.



*Devotee: Well, it is stated that the living entity, or the jīva soul, belongs to the jīva*-tattva, that categoristic..., falls into that categoristic of the Lord's energy. He is... Spark...



*Prabhupāda: No, the question is why the living entity is called superior energy? That is the question. The material, matter-earth, water, air, fire, sky*-the inferior energy; and why the living is called superior energy? Who can explain? Yes? Stand up.



Devotee: Well, the individual living entities are all part and parcel of the Supreme Lord...



Prabhupāda: The part and parcel, this material energy also, part and parcel. Because energy...



Devotee: It's separated. Material energy's separated, whereas the superior energy...



Prabhupāda: Separated, and this also, living entities also separated. In this sense. One sense, nothing is separated; but at the same time, separated. But the question is why the living entity's called superior energy?



Devotee: The living entities are conscious and the material energy's not.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also one of the reasons. Living entity's conscious, whereas the material energy is not conscious. This is one of the... Yes?



Devotee: The living entity is also eternal, unchanging, whereas the material energy is subject to change repeatedly.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also. And the most important is that living entity is superior in this sense, that the living entity can control over the material energy. Just like in this temple, all this paraphernalia which you have got, this is made of matter*-earth, water, fire, water, and fire, air. But the living entity has molded for this purpose. And it can utilize the material energy, just like modern scientists, they are utilizing... Just like you American people, this land of America, before your coming from European countries, it was vacant land. The people who lived here, they could not utilize. But you have developed by your intelligence a very nice country with industry, with nice roads. So this is superior energy, that the living entity can have some control over the material energy. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. The, the importance of this material world is due to the living entities. This Los Angeles City is valuable so long the living entities are there. The body's valuable so long the living entity, soul, is there. Therefore it is superior. But that superiority is being misused. That is conditioned life. We are conditioned because our superior position than the matter, we are misusing. How we are misusing? We have forgotten that, although I am superior energy than the matter, but still, I am subordinate to God. That he is forgetting. The modern civilization, they do not care for God because people are superior than matter. They are simply trying to exploit matter in different way. But they are forgetting that we, either we may be American or Russian or China or India, we are all subordinate to God. This is the mistake. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, and they want to enjoy this material world. This is their disease. Now our duty is to invoke their Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "You are superior." That's all right. But you are subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. You cannot enjoy, but you can... Just like we have decorated this temple not for our sense gratification. What is the difference between our students and ordinary man? They are also decorating their apartment very nicely. We are also doing the same. But the purpose is different. We are doing the same, but the purpose is different. We are doing it for Kṛṣṇa, and they are doing their for their... So our superiority is that either I am trying for decorating my personal apartment, I am trying to decorate this temple-my superiority is there because I am utilizing matter for my purpose. But when it is utilized, his intelligence is applied to utilized this matter for Kṛṣṇa, then his life is successful. The superior intelligence should be utilized for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇārthe akhila-ceṣṭā. Then your life is successful. Then the same superior energy, if you apply it for your sense gratification, you'll be entangled and anxiety. And then you'll have to change your body, one after another. That is going on.



*So the superior, supreme controller, is Kṛṣṇa, either on this inferior energy or superior energy. That is going on. So superior energy means that we can control over the material world. Not completely. That is also under condition. But we have got some control over this material world. But Kṛṣṇa has control over us also. We cannot do anything out of our own whims. Just like we are manufacturing this nice microphone with intelligence. Just like you American people, you are manufacturing so many nice things, and why other people, they cannot manufacture? What is the reason? You are also superior energy, and before you, the Red Indians, they are also superior energy. The animal, he's also superior energy. The cow, for example, that is also living entity, superior energy, and a man, he's also living entity, superior energy. But the man is sending the cow to the slaughterhouse. It is helpless, and the man is powerful. How this distinction? How this distinction? That distinction is due to the superior controller, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has given man superior intelligence, superior intelligence... In the Bhagavad*-gītā, Fifteenth Chapter, fifteenth verse, you'll find that sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "I am sitting within the heart of everyone." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. "One can memorize or forget on account of Me." Therefore the superior energy is giving intelligence to the human form of body that "You do this." "You do this" means not whimsically. He wanted to do it, but sometimes he forgets, and Kṛṣṇa reminds, "You wanted to do this. You can do this. Here is an opportunity." So although I have got superior intelligence, that is also controlled by Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa gives you intelligence, then you can manufacture this nice microphone; otherwise, you cannot. Therefore īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. In every sphere of life, there is control of Kṛṣṇa. Yat kiñcit jagatyām. Anything which is going on within this world, jagat... Jagat means this world, which is making progress. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Therefore we shall have to voluntarily accept His superiority and accept only prasādam, whatever He kindly allows, "You can take this." "All right, Sir." That's all. You cannot encroach upon others. That is superior control. But the people are encroaching; therefore they are becoming entangled. If they accept what is offered by Kṛṣṇa, then there is no trouble. But if they encroach, then there is trouble.

*So you read every śloka, every mantra. Whenever you get time, you read the purport, you read the meaning. The whole philosophy is there. Now you are growing. There will be so many questions, so many philosophers. But our philosophy is so sound and solid, that we can meet any philosopher of the world, any philosopher. But you have to learn it. The books are there, your intelligence is there, the guidance is there. Because you are preaching, sometimes we have to meet opposing elements. So if you cannot answer properly, that will be disqualification. So every one of you should learn this philosophy. As soon as you are able to, I mean to say, guide yourself, or save yourself from the attack of the opposing element, then you'll know that you are making progress. Otherwise... Of course, there are different stages of devotional life. But so far we are concerned, we have to preach. That is the second platform of devotional life. In the second platform, not only to love God, but to make friendship with devotees who is loving God. That is society. Our Society is devotees. We should not only practice to love God, but we should make friendship and love the devotees also. And then those who are innocent, those who do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, we shall preach. And those who are atheist, against God, we shall avoid. So this is second stage. And on the highest stage, of course, there is no... He is paramahaṁsa. So that, don't try to imitate paramahaṁsa. That is very topmost stage of devotional life. Even if you are on this topmost stage, when you are preacher you have come to the second platform, this stage. So you have to raise yourself from the lower stage to the second stage, and if you are in the highest stage, even then you have come to the second stage for preaching work. So preaching work, four vision. Īśvare tad*-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca: God, Kṛṣṇa; His devotee; innocent; and the atheist. So we are concerned with three: with God, the devotees and the innocent. To love God, to make friendship with devotees and to teach the innocent. And those who are atheist, against God, avoid. Don't talk. Useless waste of time. Whatever he wants: "All right, sir, you are very great." That's all right. Don't talk with them. Simply waste of time. But if one is inquisitive... Just like this child, he wants to learn. As I say, "Oh, offer your obeisances," he does it. Oh, he should be taken care, very much developed. But that is also one of the offenses, out of the ten offenses. One who is disinclined to understand what is this chanting, you should not bother yourself to convince him. That's all. Just like in hospital, especially in, in the warfield, there are many wounded soldiers are coming. But the doctors see that the soldier which has got the chance of living, take care more for them. And the soldier which is immediately going to die, they do not take care much. Because it is useless; he'll not live. Similarly the atheist, the atheist will have to suffer. They'll have to meet God in the form of death in so many ways. So by suffering, suffering, suffering, suffering, suffering, when a day will come that he'll understand God, at that time, preaching to him is better. So you do not expect that our preaching will be appeal to everyone. It will be useful for the devotees, for the innocent. Not for the atheist.

*So try to understand the philosophy very nicely, because you are going to preach. So many opposing elements will come. So you have to defend yourself. The more you can defend yourself from the opposing elements, the more you are advancing. You should know... That is the test. That is the test. Because you are preacher, so you have to test yourself, how you are making advance. Don't be self*-complacent: "Oh, I am very..., I have advanced very much." Your advancement will be tested when you can meet opposing elements. Not that when the opposing elements come, "Oh, let him talk with Guru Mahārāja, or spiritual master." Why? What for you are being taught? So you should be very careful to understand the philosophy. Otherwise, you are not making progress. Progress means you shall defend yourself from the opposing elements. That is required.

Thank you. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



700502IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 1

-

Los Angeles, May 2, 1970



(Prabhupāda and devotees chant Invocation and Mantras 1-14)

oṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

[Īśo Invocation]



īśāvāsyam idam sarvaṁ

yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā

mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam



kurvann eveha karmāṇi

jijīviṣec chataṁ samāḥ

evaṁ tvayi nānyatheto 'sti

na karma lipyate nare



asuryā nāma te lokā

andhena tamasāvṛtāḥ

tāṁs te pretyābhigacchanti

*ye ke cātma*-hano janāḥ



anejad ekaṁ manaso javīyo

nainad devā āpnuvan pūrvam arṣat

tad dhāvato 'nyān atyeti tiṣṭhat

tasminn apo mātariśvā dadhāti



tad ejati tan naijati

tad dūre tad v antike

tad antar asya sarvasya

tad u sarvasyāsya bāhyataḥ



yas tu sarvāṇi bhūtāny

ātmany evānupaśyati

*sarva*-bhūteṣu cātmānaṁ

tato na vijugupsate



yasmin sarvāṇi bhūtāny

ātmaivābhūd vijānataḥ

tatra ko mohaḥ kaḥ śoka

ekatvam anupaśyataḥ



sa paryagāc chukram akāyam avraṇam

*asnāviram śuddham apāpa*-viddham

kavir manīṣī paribhūḥ svayambhūr

yāthātathyato 'rthān vyadadhāc chāśvatībhyaḥ samābhyaḥ



andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti

ye 'vidyām upāsate

tato bhūya iva te tamo

ya u vidyāyām ratāḥ



anyad evāhur vidyayā-

nyad āhur avidyayā

iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ

ye nas tad vicacakṣire



vidyāṁ cāvidyāṁ ca yas

tad vedobhayaṁ saha

avidyayā mṛtyuṁ tīrtvā

vidyayāmṛtam aśnute



andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti

ye 'sambhūtim upāsate

tato bhūya iva te tamo

ya u sambhūtyām ratāḥ



anyad evāhuḥ sambhavād

anyad āhur asambhavāt

iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ

ye nas tad vicacakṣire



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Read.



Gargamuni: Fourteen.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Gargamuni: The last sentence. "This point is confirmed by the Bhagavad-gītā in the Seventh Chapter, where parā and aparā prakṛti are discussed. The elements of nature-earth, fire, water, air, sky, mind, intelligence and ego*-all belong to the inferior, or material, energy of the Lord, whereas the living being, the organic energy, is the superior energy, the parā prakṛti of the Lord. Both the prakṛtis, or energies, are emanations from the Lord, and ultimately He is the controller of everything that exists. There is nothing in this universe which does not belong either to the parā or aparā prakṛti, and therefore everything is under the..."



*Prabhupāda: "...proprietary right of the Supreme Being." So here, in the Īśopaniṣad also, the same thing is explained, that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Whatever we are seeing, animate or inanimate, there is control of the Supreme Lord. The same thing is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that His energies are working. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said, just like fire staying in one place distributes its heat and light... Eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā. Agni, agni means fire. Fire is... Just like the sun. Sun is also fire, very high temperature fire. So it is staying in one place, but it is distributing its light and heat all over the universe. Eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner jyotsnā yathā vistāriṇī tathaiva parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Similarly, two energies from the Supreme Lord is being distributed all over the creation. One kind of energy is called material energy, and the other kind of energy is called the spiritual energy. So in this world, in this temporary material world, the spiritual energy is there. That is prominent. But it is covered by the material energy. Just like there is sunshine-sunshine, nobody can check-but it is sometimes covered by cloud. When it is covered by the cloud, the sunshine is dim. The more it is covered... Just like in Western countries, in the northern countries, it is very much covered. Practically, there is no sunshine. In London I saw the sunshine is very rare. At ten o'clock it is early in the morning, and at half past three again evening, so long I was there. So this covering of the sunshine is temporary. Actually, sunshine cannot be covered. The whole sunshine cannot be covered. That is not possible. An insignificant portion of the sunshine may be covered, or is covered sometimes by the cloud. Similarly, this material world is an insignificant portion of the spiritual world, covered by this material energy. That's all. And what is the position of material energy? The material energy is also another form of the spiritual energy. That means absence of spiritual activity, that is material. That's all. Just like what is this cloud? This cloud is another transformation of the sunshine. The sunshine evaporates water from the sea, and the cloud is formed. Therefore sunshine is the cause of the cloud. Similarly, this material energy is also caused by the Supreme Lord because it is His energy.



*So two energies are working in this material world: the spiritual energy and the material energy. The material energy means these eight kinds of material elements. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ: [Bg. 7.4] earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, and ego. These are all material. And similarly, finer, finer, finer, finer, and grosser, grosser, grosser. Just like water is finer than the earth, then fire is finer than the water, then air is finer than the fire, then sky, or ether, is finer than the air. Similarly, intelligence is finer than the ether, or mind is finer than the ether. The mind... You know, I have given several times example: the speed of mind. Many thousands of miles within a second you can go. So the finer it becomes, it is powerful. Similarly, ultimately, when you come to the spiritual part, finer, from which everything is emanating, oh, that is very powerful. That spiritual energy. That is given in the Bhagavad*-gītā. What is that spiritual energy? That spiritual energy is this living entity. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā [Bg. 7.5]. Kṛṣṇa says, "These are material energies. Beyond this there is another, spiritual energy." Apareyam. Aparā means inferior. Apareyam. "All these described material elements, they are inferior energy. And beyond this there is superior energy, My dear Arjuna." What is that? Jīva-bhūta mahā-bāho: "These living entities." They are also energy. We living entities, we are also energy, but superior energy. How superior? Because yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. The superior energy is controlling the inferior energy. Matter has no power. The big airplane, nice machine, is flying in the sky, made of material things. But unless the spiritual energy, pilot, is there, it is useless. It is useless. Thousands of years the jet plane will stand on the airport; it will not be flying unless the small particle spiritual energy, that pilot, comes and touches it. So what is the difficulty to understand God? So plain thing, that if this huge machine... There are so many huge machineries, they cannot move without the touch of the spiritual energy, a human being or a living being. How can you expect that this whole material energy is working out of automatically or without any control? How you can put your arguments in that way? That is not possible.

*Therefore less intelligent class of men, they cannot understand how this material energy is being controlled by the Supreme Lord. The godless men, those who are of opinions that this material energy is working automatically, they are fools. That is the explanation of Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything is being controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And therefore, because He is the supreme controller, therefore He is the supreme proprietor. We can see in our practical experience, the man who controls the whole establishment, he is proprietor, or the president. Similarly, if it is being controlled by some superior person, then He is God. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Under My superintendence, this material energy is working, and all these animate and inanimate objects are being produced."

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunanena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



So unless there is some living force, energy, behind any material manifestation, it cannot work. If we simply understand this fact, that everywhere there is control of the Supreme Lord, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to understand things as it is. That's all.



Thank you very much. (end)



700503IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 1

-

Los Angeles, May 3, 1970



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Ādi-puruṣam, the original Personality of Godhead. So, when we speak of Govinda, Govinda is not alone. Just like when we speak of king, it is to be understood that king is not alone. He has got many other followers, secretaries, ministers, soldiers-whole state. Similarly, when we speak of Govindam, behind Govinda, with Govinda, all living entities, all creation, everything... Govindam. So you can st... [break]



Gargamuni: (reading:) "It is also wrong to consider that simply by becoming a vegetarian one can save himself from transgressing the laws of nature. Vegetables also have life. One life is meant to feed another living being, and that is the law of nature. One should not be proud of being a strict vegetarian. The point is to recognize the Supreme Lord. The animals have no developed consciousness to recognize the Lord, but a human being..."



*Prabhupāda: That is the main point. Just like there are the Buddhists, they are also vegetarian. According to Buddhist principle... Nowadays everything has deteriorated, but Lord Buddha's propaganda was to make the rascals at least to stop animal*-killing. Ahiṁsā paramo dharma. Lord Buddha's appearance is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and many Vedic literatures. Sura-dviṣām. He came to cheat the demons. The demons... He made such a policy that the demons were cheated. How he has cheated? The demons, they are against God. They don't believe in God. So Lord Buddha propagated, "Yes, there is no God. But what I say, you follow." "Yes, sir." But he is God. This is cheating. Yes. They do not believe in God, but they believe in Buddha, and Buddha is God. Keśava-dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. So that is the difference between a demon and a devotee. A devotee sees that how Kṛṣṇa, Keśava, is cheating these rascals. The devotee can understand. But the demons, they think, "Oh, we have got a nice leader. He does not believe in God." (laughter) You see? Sammohāya sura-dviṣām [SB 1.3.24]. The exact Sanskrit word is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have seen, those who have read: sammohāya, for bewildering sura-dviṣām. Sura-dviṣām means persons who are envious of the Vaiṣṇavas. The atheist class, demons, they are always envious of the devotees. That is the law of nature. You see this father. Father became an enemy of a five-years-old son. What was his fault? He was a devotee. That's all. Innocent boy. Simply he was, I mean to say, attracted with chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. The father himself, he became a staunch enemy: "Kill this boy." So if a father can become enemy, what to speak of others. So you should always expect that as soon as you become a devotee, the whole world becomes your enemy. That's all. But you have to deal with them, because you are appointed servants of God. Your mission is to enlighten them. So you cannot be. Just like Lord Nityānanda, He was injured, but still He delivered Jagāi-Mādhāi. That should be your principle. Sometimes we have to cheat, sometimes we have to be injured-so many things. The only device is how people can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our mission. Some way or other these rascals should be converted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, either this way or that way.



*So Lord Buddha, he cheated the demons. Why he cheated? Sadaya*-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. He was very compassionate. God is always sympathetic to all living entities because everyone is His son. So these rascals were killing unrestrictedly, simply animal-killing... And if you say, "Oh, why you are animal-killing?" they will immediately say, "Oh, it is in the Vedas: paśavo vadhāya sṛṣṭa." The animal killing is there in the Vedas, but what the purpose? That is to test the Vedic mantra. An animal will be put into the fire, and by Vedic mantra he'll be rejuvenated. That is sacrifice, animal sacrifice. Not that for eating purpose. Therefore in this age of Kali, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden any kind of yajña because there is no, I mean to say, expert brāhmaṇa who can chant the mantras and make experiment of the Vedic mantras that "Here is coming out." That is... Before performing yajña, how the mantra is potent, that was tested by sacrificing animal and again giving new life. Then it is to be understood that the priests who were chanting that mantra, that is right. That was a test. Not for animal-killing. But these rascals, for eating animals they cited, "Here, there is animal-killing." Just like in Calcutta... You have been in Calcutta? And there is a street, College Street. Now it is differently named. I think it is named Vidhan Raya (?). Just like... Anyway, so there are some slaughterhouses. So slaughterhouses means the Hindus, they do not purchase meat from Muslims' shop. That is impure. (laughter) The same thing: stool this side and that side. They are eating meat, and Hindu shop is pure, Muslim shop is impure. These are mental concoction. Religion is going on like that. Therefore... Therefore fighting: "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." Nobody knows religion. You see? They have given up religion, these rascals. There is no religion. The real religion is this, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which teaches how to love God. That's all. That is religion. Any religion, it doesn't matter whether Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, if you are developing love of God, then you are perfect in your religion. That is the test.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharma

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*This is Bhāgavata religion. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yataḥ, by executing the religious principles, if you develop your love for the Supreme, who is beyond expression of your words and beyond the activities of your mind... Adhokṣaja. This very word is used, adhokṣaja: where your material senses cannot approach. And what kind of that love? Ahaitukī, without any cause. "O Lord, I love You, God, because You supply me so many nice things. You are order-supplier." No. Not that sort of love. Without any exchange. That is taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "Whatever You do..." Āśliṣya vā pada-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām [Cc. Antya 20.47]. "Either You trample me under Your feet or You embrace me... What You like. You make me brokenhearted by not seeing You*-that doesn't matter. Still You are my worshipable Lord." That is love. "From God's side, He may do whatever He likes. I don't want anything in exchange." That is love. That sort of love Kṛṣṇa wants. Therefore He was so much fond of the gopīs. In the gopīs' love there was no question of business propaganda-"Give me this, then I love You." (chuckles) No. That is pure love. That is unalloyed love. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without being checked. No impediment. If you want to love God, there is nothing throughout the whole world which can check you. Simply you have to develop your eagerness: "Kṛṣṇa, I want You." That's all. Then there is no question of checking. In any condition you'll increase your love, increase your love. Ahaituky apra... And why this? Yayātmā suprasīdati. If you attain that state, then you will feel fully satisfied. Otherwise not. Otherwise not. If you can develop your love for God or Kṛṣṇa without being checked, without any cause, then you will feel fully satisfied. Otherwise not. It is for your interest. And... It is not for God's interest that He wants you. It is for your interest. If you do otherwise, you will never be happy. This is the only way. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].



*Therefore here it is stated, simply to become vegetarian is not the last word. There are many vegetarians. The monkey is vegetarian. He's naked and lives in a jungle. Just like there are so many so*-called sages, that "I live naked. I live in the jungle. I have given up the society." So monkey is doing that. Huh? (laughter) Naked, vegetarian, no home. But the rascal has got at least two dozen wives. That is monkey. So it is called markaṭa-vairāgya. He has become a sannyāsī, vairāgī, and, but, so much thing, but privately he has got so many connections. That is called markaṭa-vairāgya, monkey's renunciation. Monkey has renounced, naked, but at heart there is sense gratification. So markaṭa-vairāgya is no good. So simply to become vegetarian is no good. You must develop love of Godhead. That is real thing.

Thank you very much. (end)



700504IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 1

-

Los Angeles, May 4, 1970



*Gargamuni: "In the Bhagavad*-gītā the Lord directly states that He accepts the vegetable foodstuffs from the hands of a pure devotee. Therefore a human being should not only become a strict vegetarian, but he should also become a devotee of the Lord and offer to the Lord all his food and only then partake of the prasādam, or mercy of God. Such a devotee can properly discharge the duty of human life. Those who do not do so are eating only sins and thus will be subjected to the different types of distress which are the result of the various sins."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Fourth Chapter: yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Our, this conditioned life is so situated that in every step we are committing some sins. In every step, without knowing, ignorance, because we, we are born ignorant. Therefore Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abhodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jāta means every living entity is born fools. Therefore there are so many educational institutions. If the man born... May be in very high family or in high nation, but he is a fool. Otherwise, what is the necessity of so many educational institution? It is a fact. So that foolishness, when it is come to light... That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. This foolishness will continue so long as he does not come to the platform of understanding self-realization. Otherwise, all these universities and institution for imparting knowledge, they are continuation of that same ignorance and foolishness. Unless one comes to the point of understanding, "What I am, what is God, what is this world, what is my relationship...?" Unless these questions come into one's heart, and there is no proper answer, he continues to be foolish like animal, and he is subjected to different species of life, transmigration from one body to another. This is ignorance.



*So this is a very risky civilization. I may feel very comfortable that "I am a spiritual master," or you may think very comfortable, "I am born of a very rich nation, American," but this status of my life is temporary. I will have to change. I'll have to change. So if I do not change for the better, then my life is very risky. Suppose a healthy man, if he is in the society of contamination, is it not his life is very risky? He may be contaminated and infected by disease any moment. So this ignorance should be dissipated. Here it is said that such a devotee can properly discharge his duty of human life. Those who do not do so are eating only sins. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpaṁ ye pacanty ātma*-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13]. Anyone who is cooking for himself... The difference of cooking here in this temple and in ordinary house is that in ordinary house they're cooking sins. The cooking, it appears that the same, "These people are also cooking," but this cooking and that cooking is different. Here there is no sin, because it is being cooked for Kṛṣṇa. Yajñārthe. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. Beyond this field of activities, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everything with the laws of nature. Generally, you are being implicated in sinful activities, generally. And those who are little more cautious, they avoid sinful activities, they are pious activities. But even there is pious activities, he is implicated. This I have explained several times, that if a man is pious, he has to take his birth in rich family, janmaiśvarya-śruta [SB 1.8.26], in very aristocratic family, rich family. He may become next life very learned scholar, very beautiful. These are the results of pious activities. But pious or impious, you have to enter into the womb of some mother. That tribulation is very severe. That we have forgotten. That we have forgotten. Either you take birth in a very rich family, aristocratic family, or you take birth in the animal womb, so the pangs of birth, death, disease and old age will continue.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to make a solution of these four things: birth, death, old age, and disease. So if we act sinfully and if we eat sinfully, then this life of birth, death, old age, will continue. Otherwise, you can make a solution, and as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. "After leaving this body," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, "he does not take birth again in this material world." Then where does he go? He's finished? Just like voidist? No. Mām eti: "He comes to Me." Mām eti. "He comes to Me." And what is the benefit of going there, to You?

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*"To come back to Me, that is the highest perfection of life. He does not come to this miserable world." So we should be careful not to eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, prasādam. That should be determination. We cannot purchase things from the market and eat. No. That is not possible. We cannot eat. We can simply eat such things which are offered to the Deity, Kṛṣṇa. That is yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ. Even if we have committed some sin, by eating this prasādam we counteract it. Mucyante sarva*-kilbiṣaiḥ. Yajña-śiṣṭa. Aśiṣṭa means the remnants of foodstuff after offering yajña. If one eats, then mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Because our life is sinful, so we become, I mean to say, freed from the sinful activities. How it is? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: [Bg. 18.66] "If you surrender unto Me, then I'll give you protection from all sinful reactions." So if you make it a vow that "I shall not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa," that means it is a surrender. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that "My dear Lord, I shall not eat anything which is not offered to You." That's vow. That vow is surrender. And because there is surrender, you are protected from the sinful reaction.



All right. All right. Now you can... (end)



700506IP.LA

Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Mantra 2-4

-

Los Angeles, May 6, 1970



(devotees chant Invocation and first two mantras)

*Prabhupāda: Again from the beginning. (devotees repeat) Again. (devotees repeat) This is very important verse. Evaṁ tvayi nānyathe..., nānyathā ato asti na karma lipyate nare. If you know it that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, in this way if you live for hundreds of years and do your duties, there will be no reaction. The very thing is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. Except working for Kṛṣṇa, any work will bind you, good or bad. If you do good work, you'll have to enjoy, so-called enjoyment. And if you do bad work, then you have to suffer. But if you work for Kṛṣṇa, there is no such reaction. Na karma lipyate nare All right. Then next verse. (devotees repeat word for word)



asuryā nāma te lokā

andhena tamasāvṛtāḥ

tāṁs te pretyābhigacchanti

*ye ke cātma*-hano janāḥ



(repeats) Now you try it. (devotees chant) Yes. Again.



Devotees: Asuryā nāma te loka...



Prabhupāda: The first word is asuryā. This y-ā. Asuryā.



Devotees:



asuryā nāma te lokā

andhena tamasāvṛtāḥ

tāṁs te pretyābhigacchanti

*ye ke cātma*-hano janāḥ



Prabhupāda: "The killer of the soul, whoever he may be, must enter into the planets known as the worlds of the faithless, full of darkness and ignorance." (Prabhupāda leads devotees in śloka) Now repeat again. Thank you. Again from the beginning. (devotees chant Invocation and verses 1-3) Thank you. [break] Again.



Devotees:



anejad ekaṁ manaso javīyo

nainad devā āpnuvan pūrvam arṣat

tad dhāvato 'nyān atyeti tiṣṭhat

tasminn apo mātariśvā dadhāti



*Prabhupāda: "The Personality of Godhead, although fixed in His abode, is more swift than the mind and can overcome all others running. The powerful demigods cannot approach Him. Although in one place, He has control over those who supply the air, rain. He surpasses all in excellence." This is also confirmed in Brahma*-saṁhitā: goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Kṛṣṇa, although He is always in Goloka Vṛndāvana, He has nothing to do. He is simply enjoying in the company of His associates, the gopīs and the cowherds boy, His mother, His father. Free, completely free. And those who are associates, they are still more free. Because when the associates are in danger, Kṛṣṇa has got some anxiety how to save them, but the associates, they have no anxiety. "Oh, there is Kṛṣṇa." Just see. (chuckles) The associates, they have no anxiety. Any, anything happening, you will read in the Kṛṣṇa book-so many dangers. The boys, along with Kṛṣṇa, they used to go every day with their calves and cows and play in the forest on the bank of the Yamunā, and Kaṁsa will send some demon to destroy them. So you have seen, you will see also pictures. So they'll enjoy simply because they are so much confident. That is spiritual life. Avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa viśvāsa pālana. This strong faith, that "Any dangerous condition, Kṛṣṇa will save me," this is surrender.



There are six phases of surrender. The first thing is that we should accept which is favorable for devotional service; we shall reject anything which is unfavorable to devotional service. And the next is that to introduce oneself with the associates of the Lord. Just like Kṛṣṇa has got so many associates, you can... That will, of course... Not artificially. When you are advanced you'll understand what is your relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then if you introduce yourself with that association, then the next stage is confidence that "Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." Actually, He is giving protection to everyone. That is a fact. But in māyā we think that we are protecting ourself, we are feeding ourself. No. That's not the fact.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*To the devotees, Kṛṣṇa takes charge Himself, and to the ordinary living entities, the charge is taken by māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's agent. Just like good citizens, they are taken care of by the government directly, and the criminals, they are taken care of by the government through the prison department, through the criminal department. They are also taken care of. In the prison house the government takes care that the prisoners not in uncomfortable*-they get sufficient food; *if they're diseased they give hospital treatment*-every care is there, but under punishment. Similarly, we in this material world, there is care certainly, but in, in a punishment way. If you do this, then slap. If you do this, then kick. If you do this, then this... This is going on. This is called threefold miseries. But under the spell of māyā we are thinking that this kicking of māyā, this slapping of māyā, this thrashing of māyā is very nice. You see? This is called māyā. And as soon as you get into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa takes care of you. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. Kṛṣṇa, as soon as you surrender, Kṛṣṇa's immediate word is, "I take care of you. I save you from all, from all sinful reaction." There are heaps of sinful reaction in our life, for so many life after life in this material world. And as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, immediately Kṛṣṇa takes care of you and He manages how to adjust all the sinful reactions. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mā śucaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't hesitate." If you think that "Oh, I have committed so many sinful activities. How Kṛṣṇa will save me?" No. Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. He can save you. Your business is to surrender unto Him, and without any reservation dedicate your life for His service, and thus you'll become saved.



Now kindly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. (kīrtana) (end)



700505IP.LA

Śrī-Īśopaniṣad, Mantra 3

-

Los Angeles, May 5, 1970



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is lion to the demons, and He's a lamb to the devotees. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. So the atheist, they say that "We have not seen Kṛṣṇa." Yes. You'll see Kṛṣṇa as lion when He'll ultimately come and capture you, "Ow!" (laughter) That is death. Atheist will see Kṛṣṇa as death, and theist, devotee, will see Kṛṣṇa as lover. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nama om bhagavate vāsudevāya. (aside:) You sit down properly, back side. Yes. (chants Īśopaniṣad 1-10 with devotees) Anyone can explain the third verse? Kurvann eveha karmāṇi jijīviṣec chataṁ samāḥ. Who will explain, please stand up. Nobody? (laughs) How is that? Huh? Yes?



Devotee (1): (explaining text 2) This explains that the human form of life is meant for realizing our spiritual nature.



Prabhupāda: No, I wanted that śloka, kurvann eva. That is 2, yes. That's all right. So anyone will explain this,



kurvann eveha karmāṇi

jijīviṣec chataṁ samāḥ

evaṁ tvayi nānyatheto 'sti

na karma lipyate nare



So you should try to read the explanation, these word meanings. So kurvann eveha karmāṇi jijīviṣec chataṁ samāḥ. Samāḥ means years. You can live hundreds of years if you understand the philosophy of life. Otherwise, what is the use of living? The trees are also living for five hundred years, for thousands years. There is one tree in San Francisco... What is that wood?



Devotee (1): Redwood.



Prabhupāda: Redwood. No. There is some wood, I forget. Crossing bridge. Anyway, they told me that this tree is standing for seven thousand years. So the trees are also living, and you are also living. You are trying to live. Whenever there is question of death, you resist. That means you do not want to die. That is natural sequence. So here it is said that why should you live? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, ke lāgi āche, āchi...: "Why I am living? I could not achieve love of Godhead. Then what is the use of my living?" He's lamenting. Narottama dāsa kena na lāgilā māriyā. Kena vā ahcaya prāṇa kichuka lāgiyā (?). He said, "Why I am living? What is the purpose of my living? What is the ultimate happiness?" (end)





700507IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 5

-

Los Angeles, May 7, 1970



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Where is Hayagrīva prabhu? Oh, that's all right. So you have to construct a temple there like this.



Hayagrīva: By August, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Hayagrīva: By August, Prabhupāda.



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. So you like this? This chandelier? Śrī gurave prāṇa sadece goura sampad setuce (?). This is, this is a song by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He says that one who has dedicated his life for Lord Caitanya, he sees everything belongs to Lord Caitanya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now mantra. (devotees chant Īśopaniṣad, Mantra 5) Thank you. "The Supreme Lord walks and does not walk. He is far away, but he is very near as well. He is within everything and again He is outside of everything." This is the process of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He walks and does not walk. Just like crude example I give you, that the sun and, at noontime, it is on your head and somebody walking eastern side or western side, he also sees the sun is also walking with him. Long ago, about forty years ago, when I was householder, my second son, he was four years old. He was walking with me, and he said, "Oh, father, why the moon is coming with us?" This is very intelligent. Yes. So similarly, if a material object can walk so swift... You have seen. You are going on aeroplane or train, you'll see the moon or sun is going with you. So how it is not possible that Kṛṣṇa cannot walk? Although He's situated... But you ask your friend, "Where is the sun? Where is the moon?" He'll say, "Oh, it is on my head." Similarly, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Kṛṣṇa, although He is in Vṛndāvana, Goloka Vṛndāvana, enjoying pastimes with the associates, He is everywhere, according to the position, shape, form, activities. Everywhere. Therefore it is said here that Supreme Lord walks and does not walk. He does not go from His abode. He is fully enjoying. But at the same time, everywhere He is. Everywhere walking. Just like we offer foodstuff. So do not think that Kṛṣṇa is not accepting. Kṛṣṇa is accepting, because He can spread His hand immediately if you offer something with devotion. Tayā bhakty-upahṛtam aśnāmi. Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone offering Me, offering Me something with faith and love, I eat." People may ask, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is far away, in Goloka Vṛndāvana. How He eats? How He takes?" Oh, that is God. Yes, He eats. Yes, He takes. He walks; He does not walk. Immediately comes. But you must have the qualification to call Him. If you are actually a devotee, immediately Kṛṣṇa is present. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu challenged devotee Prahlāda, "Where is your God? Do you think...?" The Prahlāda was looking to the column. "Oh, do you think your God is here? All right." He immediately broke. "Ahh!" Kṛṣṇa came. That is Kṛṣṇa.



So this is explained here. This is Vedic mantra. This is the proof, Veda mantra. Why we are attached to Veda mantra? Veda mantra is the proof of everything. Whatever is said in the Vedas, that is fact. Unless you take some axiomatic truth in that way, you cannot make progress. Just like in geometry there are so many axiomatic truths, we have to accept it. "A point has no length, no breadth." "Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another." These are axiomatic truths. Similarly the Vedas, they are truth. We have to accept. Just like I've given example in my book: The conchshell is the bone of an animal. So Vedic injunction is if you touch the bone of an animal, immediately you become impure and you have to take your bath. But here is a bone which is used in the Deity room. But you cannot argue, "Oh, you said that bone is impure. As soon as you touch it, you become impure. And you are putting into the Deity room?" No argument. You have to accept it. This is Veda. You cannot argue. Similarly, spiritual master's order, you have to accept. There is no argument. In this way you can make progress. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya tinete kariyā aikya. If we argue... Na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are inconceivable by you, you cannot argue. Then it will be a failure. You have to accept that axiomatic truth. It is not dogmatic. It is not dogmatic in this sense, because our predecessor ācāryas, they accepted. What you are that you are arguing? So that is the proof. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. If you argue, there is no conclusion. The argument will go on. You put some argument; *I put some argument. That is not the process. Śrutayo vibhinnā. Scriptures, in different countries, different circumstances, different scriptures, they're also different. Then tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And so far philosophical speculation is concerned, one philosopher is putting some theory, another philosopher putting some theory*-there is contradiction. And unless you defy another philosopher, you cannot be a famous philosopher. That is the way of philosophical...

Then where, how to get real information? That is stated, that dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. The secret of religious process is lying in the cave or within the heart. So how to realize it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You have to follow great personalities. Therefore we are trying to follow Lord Kṛṣṇa or Lord Caitanya. That is perfection. You have to take evidences from the *Vedas*. You have to follow the instruction. The success is sure. That's all.

Thank you very much. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



700508IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 6

-

Los Angeles, May 8, 1970



*Prabhupāda: "A person who sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord and sees all entities as His parts and parcels and who sees the Supreme Lord within everything never hates anything, nor any being." This is the stage of mahā*-bhāgavata. In devotional service there are three stages. In the beginning it is called neophyte stage, beginners. The beginners are concentrated in the Deity worship. That is very important thing, to purify.



arcāyām eva haraye

(pūjāṁ) yas tu śraddhayehate

*na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ



*Prākṛtaḥ means, from material platform, one is coming to the spiritual platform at that stage one is taught or trained to worship the Deity with great faith and devotion under regulative principle. But in the neophyte stage, na tad*-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, he, the neophyte devotee, cannot understand who is highly elevated or devotee or what is his interest with other people. He cannot discriminate. Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. That neophyte devotee is almost material. Then next stage is to make friendship, to love God, and to make friendship with devotees, and to be merciful to the innocent and to reject the atheist. Four classes of men. You have to offer all your love for Kṛṣṇa and you have to make friendship with the devotees of Kṛṣṇa. And those who are innocent, just preach this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and try to attract them to Kṛṣṇa. And another class, atheists, don't go there. Don't try there. Hopeless. Not hopeless. For a person who is not very much elevated, for him it is hopeless.



But when one is on the higher stage of devotional service, that system is explained here:

yas tu sarvāṇi bhūtāny

ātmany evānupaśyati

sarva bhūteṣu cātmānaṁ

tato na vijugupsate



*He has no discrimination who is devotee, who is nondevotee, who is atheist or theist, or who is... In this way, he sees everyone, the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. And everyone is engaged... One who is suffering, he's also engaged, because... Just like the prisoner. The prisoner, he's also serving the government*-by force. Therefore one who is elevated, even those who are in abominable stage of life, the mahā-bhāgavata sees, "Oh, he's also obeying." Actually, it is obeying. The prisoners, they are obeying the government, although by force; but they're obeying. Similarly, those who are materialists, they are also obeying. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, this philosophy, that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. A living entity's eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa, either he admits or not admits. That doesn't matter. He's a servant. Just like any citizen is law abider or subservient to the state. He may say that "I don't care for the state," but by the police, by the military, he'll be forced to accept. So one is being forced to accept Kṛṣṇa as the master, and the other is voluntarily offering service. That is the difference. But nobody's free from the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy that eternal servant. Either you accept or not accept, you are servant. You are never equal or greater than God.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose, that people should be taught that "You are eternal servant of God. Don't falsely claim that you are God. You don't care for God. You have to care." Just like this Hiraṇyakaśipu. He didn't care for God, but God came and, at the time of his last moment. You see? Similarly, God is visible to atheist as death and to the theist as lover. That is the difference. Everyone sees God. Nobody can say, "I do not see God." Everyone sees God. But one sees as death, and one sees as lover. That is the difference.

Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



700509IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 7

-

Los Angeles, May 9, 1970



Prabhupāda:



yasmin sarvāṇi bhūtāny

ātmaivābhūd vijānataḥ

tatra ko mohaḥ kaḥ śoka

ekatvam anupaśyataḥ

[Īśo 7]



"One who always sees all living entities as spiritual sparks, in quality one with the Lord, becomes a true knower of things. What is there as illusion or anxiety for him?" This realization is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There are different kinds of realization, but ekatvam, a qualitatively oneness, is always there. The brahmavādi, impersonalist, they think that we are cent percent one with the Lord or the Supreme Absolute Truth, but that is not a fact. If one is cent percent one with the Supreme Lord, then how he has come under the control of māyā? This question, they cannot answer.



*So real identity is in the Vedic literature we find that just like the fire, big fire, and the sparks of the fire, they are of the same quality, but the small spark, when he goes out of the fire and falls elsewhere, then, at that time, its fiery quality becomes covered. So this covering becomes manifest according to different qualities. Just like the fire. If a fire spark, if it drops on the water, then it is, it assumes completely extinguished. Similarly, the living entity, although qualitatively the fire, with God, when it contacts the modes of ignorance, his spiritual quality becomes almost extinct. When he is on the land, not on the water, then there is something, heat. Similarly, when the living entity is in the rajo*-guṇa, the quality of passion, there is some hope. And when the living entity is in goodness... Just like the same spark, if it drops on the grass, dry grass, then the same spark of fire ignites another fire, another blazing fire. Similarly, if one is in goodness, then he can create a spiritual association. Just like the same example, that the small spark of fire, if it falls in favorable circumstances, or in dry grass, then it can ignite fire.

So one has to come, therefore, to the platform of goodness in this material world. If one does not come to the platform of goodness... The platform of goodness is the brahminical qualification. That we are preaching. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring some men on the platform of goodness. The world requires it now. The world is need of some brāhmaṇas, qualified brāhmaṇas. Not that... You are being trained up to become qualified brāhmaṇas. So be always careful that you may not contact the quality of passion and ignorance. Passion and ignorance will induce you... Kāma lobha, lust and greediness. That is the sign of passion and ignorance. And when you are in goodness, then you can see things as they are. Then you can see yourself, that you are not matter; you are spirit soul. And if you make further advance, then you understand that "I am eternal part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, the fiery spark." So that ekatvam anupaśyataḥ, in this verse, ekatvam, that qualitatively one, not quantitatively. You are one with God qualitatively. You cannot be equal with God quantitatively. That ekatvam.

Thank you. Go on. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



700510IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 7

-

Los Angeles, May 10, 1970



Prabhupāda: Now this verse, verse number 7,



yasmin sarvāṇi bhūtāni

ātmaivābhūd vijānataḥ

tatra ko mohaḥ kaḥ śoka

ekatvam anupaśyataḥ

[Īśo 7]



This is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person sees oneness; all living entities, they see one. Just like fire and the sparks, although there are different types of illuminating properties, the whole thing is seen as one. Similarly, these diversities in unity. Diversities means the expansion of different energies of Kṛṣṇa. That is diversity. Otherwise, the one: Kṛṣṇa, only Kṛṣṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ tathaiva akhilaṁ jagat. The whole universe, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śakti... Parasya, the Supreme Brahman, Parameśvara, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1], His energy.



*The example is just like fire. Fire has got many energies, especially heat and light. Wherever there is fire, there is heat and there is light. Now this heat is not different from the fire, and the light is not different from the fire, but still heat and light is not fire. The... From the fire, there is heat. So if you are heated, if you are getting warmth from the fire, fireplace, that does not mean you are sitting on the fire. But at the same time, that warmth of the fire, the heat of the fire, is not different from the fire. In this way you have to understand the whole universe. Nothing is different from Kṛṣṇa, but still, Kṛṣṇa is not everywhere. This philosophy... Therefore this very word is used here, vijānataḥ. Vijānataḥ means one who knows, knower of things, how they are manifested. When one understands that things are manifested in this system exactly like the fire, heat and light... Fire is the original cause of heat and light. Similarly, whatever we see within this universe, within material world and spiritual world, the spiritual world is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's internal energy, and this material world is Kṛṣṇa's expansion of external energy, and we living entities, we are expansion of marginal energy. So three energies. He has got multi*-energies. All the multi-energies grouped in three headings: antaraṅga-zakti, bahiraṅga-śakti, taṭastha-śakti. Antaraṅga-śakti means internal energy, bahiraṅga śakti means external energy, and taṭastha-śakti means these living entities. We are śakti; we are energy. We are not the energetic. The Māyāvādī philosopher says that because the energies are not outside Brahman, therefore they're all the same. This is monism. Our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that energy (is) simultaneously one and different. When you perceive heat, we understand, "Oh, there is fire." But that does not mean that because I am getting some heat, I am on the fire. Try to understand this philosophy. Therefore here it is said vijānataḥ.

*So their ekatvam, Māyāvāda philosophy's ekatvam, oneness, and our ekatvam of oneness*-a little different. They say that the energy's false; the Brahman is real. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā. We say that because Brahman is truth, therefore His energy's also truth. That is the difference between Vaiṣṇava philosophy and Māyāvāda philosophy. We cannot say that energy is false. Energy is temporary; *this external energy is temporary, not false. Although... Suppose we have got some trouble. There are so many kinds of troubles pertaining to the body, mind, external affairs. But that trouble comes and goes. But when the trouble is there, it is true. We feel the consequence. We cannot say it is false. The Māyāvādī philosophers say that it is false. But when he's troubled, why he's so much disturbed? So that is not false. Therefore this very word is used: vijānataḥ, "one who knows." Perfect knowledge must be there, vijānataḥ. When one is actual knower of the things, tatra ko mohaḥ, then there is no illusion. Illusion is for him who does not know things. But one who knows, there is no illusion. Tatra ko mohaḥ kaḥ śoka. No lamentation. When you are perfectly in conviction that there is nothing except Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's energy, the same, then there is no moha-moha means illusion*-and śoka.

*Moha and śoka, this is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. We were very much anxious to get things which you haven't got. That is kāṅkṣati, hankering after. And when things are lost, we lament. But if we know that Kṛṣṇa is the central point, so anything received, gained, profited, that is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Kṛṣṇa has given; accept it. And if it is taken away by Kṛṣṇa, then what is the lamentation? Kṛṣṇa liked to take it away from me. Oh, why should I lament? Because ekatvam, the supreme one, He's the cause of all causes. He's taking; He's also giving. So when you have got something, engage it in Kṛṣṇa's service. And we have no, nothing to offer Kṛṣṇa, then whatever you get, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam [Bg. 9.26], Kṛṣṇa is satisfied in every way. This is the meaning of vijānataḥ. One must be in the full knowledge. Then there will be no more lamentation and no more hankering. That is the stage of spiritual platform.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati ne kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu...

[Bg. 18.54]



Then you can see everyone on the same platform, that everyone is a spiritual spark. Na vijugupsate. Then you do not say, "Oh, he's lower; he's higher. He's intelligent; *he is fool." That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Paṇḍitāḥ means learned. He's vijānataḥ, one who knows. So in the Vedic literature you won't find something different in Bhagavad-gītā and some things different in Īśopaniṣad or something is different in the Vedas. No. They are the same things explained in different languages in different scriptures. But one has to know the art, how to understand them.



Thank you very much. (end)



700511IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 8

-

Los Angeles, May 11, 1970



(Prabhupāda and devotees chant Invocation and verses 1-7)

Prabhupāda: Again, from the beginning. (devotees repeat) Thank you very much. [break]



*Apāpa*-viddham [Īśo 8]. This is most important part of this verse. No sin can pollute Kṛṣṇa. There is nothing sinful for Kṛṣṇa. How it is? The example is given generally, just like the sun. There is no contamination for the sun. There is no possibility of the sun being contaminated, or the sun being dark. This is a material thing. So how Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He can be contaminated by any kind of sinful action? God is good. There cannot be any sinful action. Sometimes less intelligent class of men, they criticize Kṛṣṇa, "Why Kṛṣṇa did it?" Yes, Kṛṣṇa is God. He can do anything, whatever He likes. Your laws cannot restrict Kṛṣṇa. You may... For you there may be so many restrictive laws, but for Kṛṣṇa there is no restrictive law. He can surpass all restrictive regulations. This question was put to Parīkṣit Mahārāja after rasa-līlā that "Kṛṣṇa came to establish the principles of moral and religious life. How He enjoyed the company of so many young girls who were not...? They were wives of other persons. So how it is so?" So the answer was given that Kṛṣṇa cannot be contaminated. Rather, anything comes to Kṛṣṇa, even with contaminated mind, becomes purified. The same example: the sun cannot be contaminated, but anything contaminated, if you put into the sunshine, it becomes purified. So you approach Kṛṣṇa with any desire... Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā [SB 2.3.10]. The gopīs... Of course, that is not this material thing. Still, as young girls, they were captivated by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. So they approached Kṛṣṇa with a view to accept Him as parmour. But actually, they became purified.

*So some way or other, if we can develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately we become purified. That is the process. Kṛṣṇa gives chance to everyone. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was thinking of Kṛṣṇa. He was also Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, how shall I find out Kṛṣṇa? I shall kill Him." That was his business. That is the asuric mentality. Āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. But he also became purified. He got salvation. The same example again: somehow or other, if you come to the sunlight, you become purified and you get warmth. Not that sun becomes contaminated by you. No. That is not possible. Sun is so powerful that even you are contaminated... You cannot contaminate the sun. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya [SB 10.33.29]. When one is very powerful, there is no contamination. Therefore here it is said, apāpa*-viddhaṁ śuddham. Always purified, Kṛṣṇa. This is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "You are the supreme pure." Pavitraṁ paramam.

*So same thing is here. The Vedic literature is not contradictory. Whatever you find in Brahma*-saṁhitā, the same thing you'll find in Īśopaniṣad, the same thing you'll find Bhagavad-gītā, same thing you'll find in other Vedic literature. It is our misunderstanding that we, sometimes we cannot understand. Otherwise, it is always the same truth spoken everywhere.

Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. (kīrtana) (end)



700512IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 8

-

Los Angeles, May 12, 1970



Prabhupāda: (chants verse, etc)



sa paryagāc chukram akāyam avraṇam

*asnāviraṁ śuddham apāpa*-viddham

kavir manīṣī paribhūḥ svayambhūr

yāthātathyato 'rthān vyadadhāc chāśvatībhyaḥ samābhyaḥ

[Īśo 8]



So this verse, you'll read what is important. "Such person must know in fact the greatest of all, who is unembodied, omniscient..." That is the distinction between God and ourself. We are embodied. This body is different from me; therefore when I leave this body, this body becomes "Dust thou art, dust thou..." That thou means this body. I am not dust. I am spirit soul. So Kṛṣṇa is not embodied. He has no difference between His body and His soul. His soul and body, the same. He does not change His body, because He hasn't got material body. And because He does not change body, He remembers everything. We change body; *therefore we do not remember what had happened in our last birth. We have forgotten who was... Just like even in sleep, when we forget our body, we forget our all, I mean to say, environments. While sleeping or dreaming, you are in a dreamland. You don't remember even that you have got this body. Every day, every night, this is being experienced. Because this body, I'm not body. The body becomes tired. It sleeps or it is inactive. But as I am, I work, I dream, I go somewhere, I fly, or I go, I create another kingdom, another body, another environment. This we experience every day, every night. It is not difficult to understand. Similarly, in every life, we create a different environment. In this life I may think I am Indian. You may think you are American. Or next life, a different position. Next life, I may not be American, or I may not be Indian. And if I, even I, I become American, I may not be a man. I may be a cow or bull. Then I am sent to the slaughterhouse. You see? This is going on. This is the problem. Always changing bodies. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It is serious position. We should very..., take this life very seriously, that "I'm changing my body life after life. I have no fixed position. I do not know where I am put within these 8,400,000 species of life. So I must make a solution." And that solution is... Kṛṣṇa says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ: [Bg. 8.15] "If anyone, some way or other, by developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he comes to Me, he hasn't got any more to go back and accept a material body." He gets the same body as Kṛṣṇa, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1].



*So we should very seriously execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Without any deviation, very seriously. We should not be neglectful, that this is fashion or something imposed. No. This is the most important function. Human life is meant simply for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has no other business. But unfortunately we have created so many engagements so that we forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is called māyā. This is called māyā. We are forgetting our real business. We are engaged in different, so many businesses. Misleaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. The rascal, blind leaders are leading to hell. Te 'pīśa tantryām uru*-dāmni-baddhāḥ. All of them are tied up by the stringent rules and regulations of the material nature. And they have become leader. They do not like any authority. This is called māyā. This is called māyā. They are being misled; still they are following that. This is called māyā.

So try, some way or other, you have come in contact with Kṛṣṇa. So catch Him very tightly. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you catch very tightly Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, then māyā will not be able to do any harm.

Thank you very much. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



700513IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 9

-

Los Angeles, May 13, 1970



Prabhupāda: (chanting with devotees:)



andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśantiye

ye 'vidyām upāsate

tato bhūya iva te tamo

ya u vidyāyāṁ ratāḥ

[Īśo 9]



*"Those who are engaged in the culture of nescient activities shall enter into the darkest region of ignorance. Worse still are those engaged in the so*-called culture of knowledge."



*So there are two kinds of education: material education and spiritual education, brahma*-vidyā and jaḍa-vidyā. Jaḍa-vidyā means material education. Jaḍa. Jaḍa means "which cannot move," matter. And spiritual education... Spirit can move. Our body is combination of spirit and matter. So long the spirit is there, this body is moving. Just like coat-pant is moving so long a man wears it. It appears that the coat is moving, the pant is moving, but actually the living entity is moving, and the covering, the dress, appears to be moving. Similarly, this body is moving because the spirit soul is moving. This is only... Just like a vehicle. A motorcar is moving; that means the driver is moving. So foolish people will think that the motorcar is moving. Motorcar does not move. In spite of all mechanical arrangement, it cannot move. That is the wrong way of education. People who are thinking that this material nature is working, moving and manifesting so many wonderful things... Just like in the seaside we see the waves are moving. But the waves are not moving; the air moving it. But air is not moving. In this way, you go back, back, back, what is the ultimate cause, then you'll find Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes. That is called philosophy, to search out the ultimate cause.

So here it is said, andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti ye avidyām upāsate. Avidyā means those who are captivated by the external movements, they are, they are worshiping avidyā, nescience, which will not help him. The modern civilization is engaged... There are big, big institutions for technology, how a motorcar can move, how aeroplane can move. So many machinery they're manufacturing. But they are... There is no educational institution how the mover, the spirit soul, is moving. That is... That is called avidyā, nescience. The actual mover is not being studied, but the external movement is being studied. Big, big institution, universities, there are. As I told you the other day, when I lectured in the Massachusetts Technological College, so I inquired that "Where is that technology to study the mover?" But they have no such arrangement. They could not answer satisfactorily. So that is avidyā. So here, in the *Īśopaniṣad*, it is said, andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti ye avidyām upāsate. Those who are engaged only in material advancement of education, the result will be that they will go to the darkest region of existence, andhaṁ tamaḥ. It is very dangerous position that at the present moment there is no arrangement in any state, all over the world, about spiritual education. It is pushing the human society to the darkest region of existence. Actually, it is happening so. In... In your country, your rich country, you have got nice educational system, so many universities, but what class of men you are producing? The students are coming to become hippies. Why?

*So leaders should think over it, that "What we are producing, in spite of so many educational institutions?" That is hinted here, that because you are worshiping avidyā... That is not knowledge. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung very nicely: jaḍa*-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. Jaḍa-vidyā. Jaḍa-vidyā means this material education. He says they are expansion of this māyā. Jaḍa vidyā. Jaḍa vidyā sa māyāra vaibhava, tomāra bhajane bādhā. The more we shall advance in this material education, the more we will be hampered to understand what is God. And at last we shall declare, "God is dead. I am God. You are God," this, all this nonsense. That is hinted here: andhaṁ tamaḥ. Andham means darkness. There are two kinds of darkness. If you remain in ignorance, that is also darkness, and if you remain actually in darkness, where there is no sunlight, there is no electric light, that is also darkness. So avidyām upāsate. Another, tato bhūya iva te tamo ya u vidyāyāṁ ratāḥ. So these materialists, they are certainly being pushed in the darkness, but there is another class, who are so-called philosopher, mental speculators, religionists, yogis. They are going still more in the darkness, because they are defying Kṛṣṇa. They are posed as if culturing spiritual knowledge, but because they have no information of Kṛṣṇa, or God, their advancement of education is also more dangerous. More dangerous. Because they are misleading people. The yoga system, the so-called yoga, not the real yoga system... The so-called yoga system, they are preaching, misleading people that "You meditate and you'll understand that you are God." By meditation, one becomes God. (chuckles) You see. So Kṛṣṇa never meditated. Neither He had any chance of meditation, because from the very beginning of His appearance, Kaṁsa was prepared to kill Him. Then He was transferred by His father to the house of Nanda-Yaśodā. There also, when He was sleeping, a baby, three-months-old baby, the Pūtanā demon attacked. So Kṛṣṇa had no chance to meditate to become God. He is God from the very beginning. That is God. God is God and dog is dog. That is the law of identity.

*So these are all nonsense, that "You become still, you become silent, and you become God." Oh, how I can become silent? Is there any possibility of becoming silent? No. There is no such possibility. "You become desireless." So how I can become desireless? These are all bluffs. We cannot be desireless. We cannot be silent. But our desires, our activities, have to be purified. That is real knowledge. That is real knowledge. We shall desire only to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is purification of desire. Not that desireless. That is not possible. How I can be desireless? How I can be silent? That is also not possible. For a second, I cannot be silent. So then our activities should be engaged, dovetailed, in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is real knowledge, that "I, as living entity, I have all these things, activities, desires, loving propensity. Everything is there. But that is being misguided." We do not know where to place all these things. That is avidyā. So this Īśopaniṣad teaches us that we should be very careful. We should not be very much advanced... We may be advanced. That doesn't matter. We don't say that you don't advance in material education. You advance, but, at the same time, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our propaganda. We don't say that you don't, you do not manufacture motorcar or you do not manufacture these so many machines. We don't say. But we say, "All right, you have manufactured this machine. Employ it in Kṛṣṇa's service." That is our proposal. We don't say stop it. We don't say that you have, don't have any sex life. But we say, "Yes, you have sex life*-for Kṛṣṇa. You produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children. Hundred times you have sex life." But don't create cats and dogs. That is our proposal.

So education, education required, but if education is wrongly diverted, it is very, very dangerous. That is the purport of this verse.

andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti

ye vidyām upāsate

tato bhūya iva te tamo

ya u vidyāyāṁ ratāḥ



*So*-called education has no value.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



700514IP.LA

Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Mantra 9-10

-

Los Angeles, May 14, 1970



Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. Oṁ pūrṇam adaḥ. (chants with devotees) Loudly. (chants Mantras 1-10) "The wise have explained to us that one result is derived from the culture of knowledge, and it is said that a different result is obtained from the culture of nescience."



*So yesterday we have explained to some extent what is the culture of nescience and what is the culture of knowledge. Culture of knowledge means spiritual knowledge. That is real knowledge. And advancement of knowledge for comforts or to protect this material body, that is the culture of nescience. Because however you may try to protect this body, its natural course will take place. What is that? Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. You cannot relieve this body from repeated birth and death, and while manifested, disease and old age. So people are very much busy for culturing knowledge of this body, although they are seeing every moment that this body is decaying. The death of the body was registered when it was born. That's a fact. So you cannot stop the natural course of this body. You must meet the process of the body, namely, birth, death, old age, and disease.

*So Bhāgavata says, therefore, yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. This body is made of three primary elements: mucus, bile, and air. That is the Vedic version and Āyurvedic treatment. This body is a bag of mucus, bile, and air. In old age the air circulation becomes disturbed; therefore old man becomes rheumatic, so many bodily ailments. So Bhāgavata says, "One who has accepted this combination of bile, mucus, and air as self, he is an ass." Yes. Actually, this is the fact. If we accept this combination of bile, mucus, and air as myself... So intelligent person, a very great philosopher, very great scientist, does it mean that he's a combination of bile, mucus and air? No. This is the mistake. He's different from this bile or mucus or air. He's soul. And according to his karma, he's exhibiting, manifesting his talent. So they do not understand this karma, the law of karma. Why we find so many different personalities? If it is a combination of bile, mucus, and air, why they are not similar? So they do not cultivate this knowledge. Why there are dissimilarities? One man is born millionaires; another man is born, he cannot even have full meals twice a day, although he's struggling very hard. Why this discrimination? Why one is put into such favorable condition? Why the other is not? So there is law of karma, the individuality.

*So this is knowledge. Therefore the Īśopaniṣad says that anyad evāhur vidyayā anyad āhur avidyayā. Those who are in ignorance, they are cultivating a different type of advancement of knowledge, and those who are actually in knowledge, they are cultivating in a different way. Ordinary people, they do not like our activities, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are surprised. Gargamuni was telling me yesterday evening that people ask, "Where do you get so much money? You are purchasing so many cars and big church property and maintaining fifty, sixty men daily and enjoying. What is this?" (laughter) So they are surprised. And we are surprised why these rascals are working so hard simply for filling the belly. So Bhagavad*-gītā says, yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgrati saṁyamī. We are seeing that these people are sleeping, and they are seeing we are wasting our time. This is opposite view. Why? Because their line of action is different, our line of action are different. Now, it is to be decided by an intelligent man whose actions are actually right.

These things are very nicely discussed in Vedic literature. There is another... Just like this is *Īśopaniṣad*. Similarly, there is another Upaniṣad, Garga Upaniṣad. So that is the talk between husband and wife, very learned. The husband is teaching the wife. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa eva brāhmaṇa gargi. Etad aviditvā yaḥ prayāti sa eva kṛpanā. This real culture of knowledge, one who... Everyone takes birth and everyone will die. There is no difference of opinion about it. We shall die and they shall die. They can say that "You are thinking of birth, death, old age and disease. So do you mean to say that because you are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge, you will be free from these four principles of nature's onslaught?" No. That is not the fact. The fact is, the Garga Upaniṣad says, etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti. One who quits this body after knowing what he is, sa eva brāhmaṇa, he is brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa... We are offering you the sacred thread. Why? Just you try to understand what is the mystery of life. That is brāhmaṇa. Vijānataḥ. We have read in this verse, vijānataḥ. One who quits this body after knowing things as they are, he is brāhmaṇa. And etad aviditvā yaḥ prayāti... And one who quits this body without knowing the mystery of life, he's a kṛpaṇā. Kṛpaṇā means miser. Just like if you get one million dollars and you could not utilize it, simply you see that "Oh, I have got this bank balance," you are happy simply by seeing it, then you are kṛpaṇā. You do not know how to utilize. And one who has got one million dollars and utilizing it and making millions and millions dollars, he is intelligent. Similarly, this body is invaluable. One who is utilizing it for culture of spiritual knowledge, he is brāhmaṇa. That is the difference between brāhmaṇa and kṛpaṇā. And one who is utilizing this body like cats and dogs for sense gratification, he is miser. He does not know how to utilize one million dollars. Everyone does not know. But it is the duty of the father, duty of the state, duty of the teachers to educate from the very beginning. Bhāgavata says that one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, one should not become a teacher, one should not become a king unless they are able to elevate their dependents to this spiritual knowledge, which can save him from repeated birth and death.

Thank you. (end)



700515IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 10

-

Los Angeles, May 15, 1970



(Prabhupāda chants first ten verses with devotees)

Prabhupāda: So this verse is very important.



anyad evāhur vidyayā

anyad āhur avidyayā

iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ

ye nas tad vicacakṣire

[Īśo 10]



So here is one word, iti śuśruma. Śuśruma means heard. The word meaning is there. "It is heard." In the Vedic disciplic succession, it is never said, "It is experienced." That is the secret of Vedic understanding. No student will... Just like people are now engaged in researching what is there in the moon planet. So this is material policy, to try to understand things by his own experience. Pratyakṣa, direct, experimental knowledge. The Vedic understanding is different. It is śruti. Śruti means to hear from authoritative source. That is real knowledge. Just like I have given many times this example that if you want to know your father by experimental knowledge, is it possible? Not possible. Then how to know my father? By hearing from the authority, mother. That's all. Simple thing. Similarly, things which are beyond our experimental knowledge you should not try to understand by your imperfect senses. That is not possible. If you cannot know your material father by experimental knowledge, how you can know the Supreme Father by experimental knowledge? The original father... The father of the father, father, father, you go on searching father, and the original father is Kṛṣṇa. So if you cannot understand your material father, the next generation, by experimental knowledge, how you can know God, or Kṛṣṇa, by experimental knowledge? Can you answer this, anyone?



*So people are searching what is God. And searching, searching, searching, and they fail. They say, "Oh, there is no God. I am God." Finished. You see? This is not possible. Here it is said, iti śuśruma. This is Vedic knowledge. Heard, śuśruma. Wherefrom śuśruma? From the storekeeper? No. Dhīrāṇāṁ śuśruma. Iti śuśruma dhīrāṇām. What is dhīrāṇām? From the sober sect. Not this fanatic sect, but the sober sect, dhīra. Dhīra means whose senses are not agitated by material influence, or svāmī, or gosvāmī. He is called dhīra. There are different kinds of agitation. The first agitating agent is the mind, then the another agitating agent is this tongue. Another agitating agent is our speaking power. Vāco-vega krodha-vega. Another agitation is when we become angry. When we become angry, we forget. We do any nonsense due to the agitation of anger. When we speak in anger, we speak so many nonsense things. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegaṁ jihvā-vegam. Jihvā-vegam, agitation of the jihvā, tongue. Don't you see? For the agitation of the tongue so many advertisement: "Oh, here is this liquor," "Here is this chicken," "Here is this beef." What for? To satisfy the agitation of the tongue. Does it mean that without beef, without chicken, without liquor, we cannot live? Is it a fact? It is not a fact. For living, we have got so many nice things. God has, Kṛṣṇa has given-īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]*-for human being. You can take these grains, these fruits, the nice things, the milk. The milk is produced hugely. It is not for the cow itself, who is producing the milk; it is for human being. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. That is the allotment. God's allotment is, "You, Mr. or Miss Cow, or Mrs. Cow, although you are producing milk, you cannot drink it. It is for the human being. Better. Better animal. Not that... What you will do by drinking milk?" No animal... Of course, in infant stage every animal living (drinks) mother's milk. That is nature's... But so far the cow's milk is concerned, that is specifically meant for the human being. So tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. What is ordained by Kṛṣṇa, or God, you take it. But we have got the agitation of the tongue. Why shall I be satisfied simply taking grains, milk, and vegetables, and fruits? Let me maintain hundreds of slaughterhouse and kill these animals. After taking their milk, although she becomes my mother, for my tongue agitation let them be killed. You see?

*So this is not... You haven't got to hear from such nonsense, but you have to hear from the dhīrāṇām, those who have controlled their senses. That is the gosvāmī, or svāmī. One who has six kinds of control: control of the mind, control of the tongue, control of anger, control of speaking, control of the genital, and control of the belly. Six kinds of agitating agents: the mind, the tongue, the belly, the genital, the speaking... So one who has control over these six things, he is called dhīrāṇām. Dhīra. Hara eva (?) dhīra. Just like in Kumāra*-sambhava. There is a nice poetry made by a great poet, Kālidāsa. It is called Kumāra-sambhava. This Kumāra-sambhava, we had our prescribed books in our intermediate I.A. class, Kumāra-sambhava. Kumāra-sambhava, the fact of the Kumāra-sambhava is that when Pārvatī suicided herself in the Dakṣa-yajña, then Lord Śiva was very angry. He left this world. That's a Dakṣa-yajña story. You might have heard from Bhāgavatam. So he was engaged in meditation, and there was fight between the demons and the demigods. They wanted a very nice general. So it was concluded that with the semina of Lord Śiva, if a son is born, then he'll be able to fight this great fight between the demons. So Lord Śiva was in meditation, completely naked. So this Pārvatī was sent to worship the Śiva-liṅga just to agitate him for sex. But he was not agitated. He was still silent. So that particular instance is given by Kālidāsa, "Here is a dhīra." Dhīra. He is naked. A young girl is worshiping the genital, touching it; still he's not agitated. So that is the example of being dhīra. Dhīra means there may be causes for agitation, but one shall not be agitated. That is called dhīra. In spite of presence of the agent of agitating... Just like there is a very nice foodstuff, but still, my tongue should not be agitated. There is a very nice girl or boy, still, I shall not be agitated sexually. In this way, when you are able to control the six agitating elements, then you become dhīra. Dhīra. Not that he had, Lord Śiva had no sexual potency, but he was dhīra. That is the example. Just like Kṛṣṇa danced with so many girls, but there was no sex appetite. That is called dhīra.

*So you have to hear from such person, dhīra. Here it is stated, iti śuśruma dhīrāṇām. Dhīrāṇām. Then your knowledge will be perfect. If you hear from adhīrāṇām, those who are not controlled, then it is useless knowledge. But here it is in the Vedic version of Īśopaniṣad, iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ ye nas tad vicacakṣire. So the student has approached the spiritual master and he says that "We have heard like this. Now it may be kindly explained." So teacher or the spiritual master is not inventing something. The same old thing. Just like the Bhagavad*-gītā, the old thing is being explained again by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna. So we have no, nothing to research. Everything is there. Simply we have to hear from a person who is dhīra, who is not agitated by the six kinds of agitating agents. That is the process of Vedic knowledge.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti (te jñānaṁ)

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



So always remember that we have to learn from a person who is dhīra, who has control over these agitating agents.



Thank you. (end)



700516IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad*, Mantra 11

-

Los Angeles, May 16, 1970



Prabhupāda: "Only one who can learn the process of nescience and that of transcendental knowledge side by side can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death and enjoy the full blessings of immortality." [Īśo 11]



*So people do not understand what is immortality. They think that it is a vague idea, because no knowledge... So many things... We are very proud of our advancement of knowledge. So many things we do not know, and it is not possible to know even, by our modern experimental knowledge. It is not possible. Therefore, if you want real knowledge, then you go to knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. These Vedas means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Veda, Veda means knowledge. So if you want real knowledge, then you have to take shelter of these Vedas, Vedic literature, just like Īśopaniṣad. There are 108 Upaniṣads, out of which, nine are very important. Out of that nine, this Īśopaniṣad stands first, then Taittirīya Upaniṣad, Māṇḍūkya Upaniṣad, Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad. So the Upaniṣad... Upa, upa means nearing. So this knowledge will take you nearer to Kṛṣṇa. And amongst the learned society, ācāryas, the śruti*-pramāṇa... Evidence is śruti. Śruti means these Vedas. They are not experimental knowledge. They are not knowledge established by the research work of contaminated, conditioned soul. Contaminated, conditioned soul, their senses are imperfect. They cannot see things as they are. Simply they theorize, "It may be like that." So much they can say. So "It may be like that," that is no knowledge. Knowledge definite. There is no mistake. Conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat... Cheating means one who does not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā but he is writing commentary on Bhagavad-gītā. This is cheating, cheating the public. Somebody has got some name, a scholar, and he takes advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā, and he writes some comment. And they claim that anyone can give his own opinion. But that is not the process. You cannot give any opinion. Suppose I am a preacher of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How I can give opinion on medical science? That is ludicrous. I can give opinion in my jurisdiction-that's all right-but if somebody asks me opinion about some medical treatment or some legal implication, so what can I do? Similarly, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12].

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānam

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Tattva*-darśinaḥ means one who has seen, one who has realized the Absolute Truth. So you have to go there.



So avidyā mṛtyum. If you do not go, then you remain in darkness. It is... Vedic injunction is gacchet. This is a verb, form of verb, which says "must." It is not that "Oh, I may accept a spiritual master; *I may not. There are books. I shall learn it." No. Therefore the injunction is gacchet. Gacchet means "must go," not that alternative, may go or may not go. No. "Must go." Tad*-vijñānārtham, in order to understand that knowledge, that science, you must go. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Otherwise you remain in avidyā. Vidyām avidyām ca: two sides, darkness and light. So you must know two things: what is māyā and what is Kṛṣṇa. Then your knowledge is perfect. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is so nice that somehow or other, if you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then your all business finished. You automatically will learn what is māyā if you have got full surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence from within. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151], Caitanya-caritāmṛta. "By the mercy of spiritual master and by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one enters into this devotional service." How is that? The mercy is parallel line. If you have not found out a spiritual master, but if you are sincere, then Kṛṣṇa will take you to a bona fide spiritual master. And if you get a bona fide spiritual master, then he will take you to Kṛṣṇa. So both things parallel. If you are sincere... Kṛṣṇa is always sitting within your heart, caitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. That spiritual master within the heart manifests himself externally as spiritual master. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Sākṣāt, directly, directly representative of Kṛṣṇa. This is the verdict of all śāstras. Samasta. Samasta means all śāstra. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva **. And it is not only stated, but it is accepted as such by all great sadbhiḥ, devotees.

So vidyā and avidyā. We should learn what is vidyā and avidyā. Avidyā means this materialistic knowledge. That is avidyā. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, jaḍa vidyā sab māyāra vaibhava: "Advancement of material knowledge means advancement of māyā's jurisdiction." The more you become implicated in material knowledge, entangled, you..., less you can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People, those who are supposed to be very advanced in material knowledge, they think, "Eh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?" They have no attraction. Just like some of our Indian boys sometimes come. They have come here to learn technology. So sometimes they question. They are surprised that... They have rejected these things, and they have come here to learn technology. So when they see that Swamijī introduced the things which they have rejected in India, so they are surprised.

*So I also came for that purpose, because our modern India has rejected spiritual knowledge. They are thinking that if they can imitate Westernized technology, then they will be happy. This is māyā. They do not see that those who are advanced three hundred times more than us in technology, what they have got? They do not see that. India cannot advance in technology like America or Europe at least for three hundred years more, because in these Western countries they have taken this business since a very long time, but Indian culture, beginning from the creation, is spiritual culture. Vyāsadeva... Just see Vyāsadeva. He is the original guru, spiritual master, of Vedic knowledge. How he was living? In a cottage in Badarikāśrama. But just see his knowledge. He has written so many Purāṇas, and Bhāgavata-Purāṇa is one of them. The Vedānta philosophy, Mahābhārata, each and every verse if you study, you can study for the whole life. Similarly, in some book he has written 100,000's of verses, not less than 20,000, 25,000 verses. And each verse is so full of meaning that one has to learn it throughout his whole life. This is Vedic culture. There is no comparison of knowledge, not only in spiritual knowledge, in other department also*-in astronomy, in mathematics. It is not that in the olden age there were no aeroplanes. We get so many information from Purāṇas. Their aeroplane was so strong and so, I mean to say, speedy, they could easily reach other planets. Arjuna went to the heavenly planet. So material knowledge, advancement, is not that there was no advancement of material knowledge in the Vedic age. It was there, but they did not take much care of it. They were interested for spiritual knowledge. It is not that material knowledge was not there. It was there. The opulence... That opulence you cannot compare now. Gold, jewels, full-every city, every individual person, and what to speak of kings and rich men. So avidyā and vidyā. So one should know side by side what is vidyā and what is avidyā.

So avidyāya, if we advance in avidyā, or material science, then we have to repeat this birth and death, birth and... And there is no guarantee where I shall get my next birth. That is not in your hand. You cannot dictate. Now you are happy American, but after quitting this body you cannot dictate, "Please give me again an American body." No. That is not possible. You may get an American body, but you may get the American animal's body. Then you are meant for slaughterhouse. So this material knowledge, this nationalism, this socialism, they are simply spoiling time. Real knowledge is the Vedic knowledge and the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. That is real knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 7.19]. Therefore one who is in real knowledge, after many, many births, he comes to Kṛṣṇa and surrenders unto Him, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, You are everything."

*So that knowledge we are trying to distribute freely, without any charges. So our mission is very great. You should be conscious of this responsibility. We are giving this supermost thing to the human society. So you try yourself to understand thoroughly and distribute. That will make you very much, I mean to say, dear to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ: "Anyone who is preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge, oh, nobody is dearer than him to Me." So if you want to be very dear to Kṛṣṇa quickly, so you preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very nicely.

Thank you very much. (end)



700518IP.LA

Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Mantra 13-15

-

Los Angeles, May 18, 1970



Prabhupāda: Everyone feeling all right?



Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda. Jaya!



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Page 65, Mantra 13. (chants mantra etc.)



anyad evāhuḥ sambhavād

anyad āhur asambhavāt

iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ

ye nas tad vicacakṣire

[Iso 13]



Then Mantra 14, (page) 72. (devotees chant mantra etc.)



sambhūtiṁ ca vināśaṁ ca

yas tad vedobhayaṁ saha

vināśena mṛtyuṁ tīrtvā

sambhūtyāmṛtam aśnute

[Iso 14]



Fifteen.



hiraṇmayena pātreṇa

satyasyāpihitaṁ mukham

tat tvaṁ pūṣann apāvṛṇu

*satya*-dharmāya dṛṣṭaye



"O my Lord, sustainer of all that lives, Your real face is covered by Your dazzling effulgence. Kindly remove that covering and exhibit Yourself to Your pure devotee."



*Here is Vedic evidence. This Īśopaniṣad is Veda, part of the Yajur Veda. So here it is said, hiraṇmayena pātreṇa satyasya apihitam mukham. Just like the sun. There is, in the sun planet, there is a predominating Deity whose name is Vivasvān. We get it, this information we get from Bhagavad*-gītā. Vivasvān manave prāha. So in every planet there is a predominating Deity. Just like in your this planet, if not Deity, somebody like president there is. Formerly, there was only one king on this planet, up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. One king was. There was only one flag ruling over this whole planet. Similarly, in every planet there is a predominating Deity. So here it is said that the supreme predominating Deity is Kṛṣṇa, in the spiritual, in the topmost planet in the spiritual sky. This is material sky. In the material sky this is one of the universes. There are millions and trillions of universes. And within this universe there are millions and trillions of planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Jagad-aṇḍa. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe. Aṇḍa: just like an egg, this whole universe. So koṭi. Koṭi means hundreds and thousands. So in the brahmajyoti there are hundreds and thousands of these universes, and within this universe there are hundreds and thousands and thousands, unlimited number of Vaikuṇṭhas, planets. Each Vaikuṇṭha planet is predominated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Except in the Kṛṣṇa planet, all other Vaikuṇṭha planets, they are predominated by Nārāyaṇa, and each Nārāyaṇa has got different names, some of which we know. Like just we utter Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Saṅkarṣaṇa... We have got twenty-four names only, but there are many others. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33].

So these planets are covered by the brahmajyoti effulgence. So here it is prayed that hiraṇmayena pātreṇa satyasya apihitam. Apihitam means covered. Just like you cannot see the sun globe on account of this dazzling sunshine, similarly, the Kṛṣṇa planet, here you have the picture. From the Kṛṣṇa planet the effulgence is coming out. So one has to penetrate this effulgence. That is being prayed here. Hiraṇmayena pātreṇa satyasya. The real Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, His planet is covered by the Brahman effulgence. So the devotee is praying, "Kindly move it. Wind it so that I can see You really." So brahmajyoti, the Māyāvāda philosophers, they do not know that beyond brahmajyoti there is anything. Here is the Vedic evidence, that the brahmajyoti is just like golden effulgence. Hiraṇmayena pātreṇa. This is covering the real face of the Supreme Lord. Tat tvaṁ pūṣann apāvṛṇu. So, "You are sustainer, You are maintainer. Kindly uncover this so that we can see You actually, Your face."

*The idea is that Kṛṣṇa planet or the Vaikuṇṭha planets, they are beyond this Brahman effulgence, and those who are devotees, they are permitted to enter into these spiritual planets. Those who are not devotees, simply jñānīs or demons... The jñānīs and demons, they are offered the same place. The jñānīs... Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They practice severe austerities, penances, to enter into the Brahman effulgence. But the demons, simply by becoming enemy of Kṛṣṇa, they immediately get that place. The demons who are killed by Kṛṣṇa, they are immediately transferred to this Brahman effulgence. So just imagine, the place which is given to the enemies of Kṛṣṇa, is that very covetable thing? Suppose if somebody comes who is my enemy, I give him some place, and somebody, my intimate friend, I give him some other place. Similarly, this Brahman effulgence is not at all covetable. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatīpāda, he has composed a verse, that Brahman... Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Kaivalya means the Brahman effulgence, simply spiritual light. So kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. He says that this Brahman effulgence is just like hell. For a devotee, this Brahman... The jñānīs who are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, for devotee it is stated as hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Tri*-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate (Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). And tri-daśa-pūr means the planets of the demigods within this material world. People are very much anxious to go into the heavenly planet. That is called tri-daśa-pūr or tri-daśa-pūr, the residential quarters of the demigods. And for a devotee it is understood as will-o'-the-wisp, ākāśa-puṣpāyate. And durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. And the yogis, they are trying to control the senses, which are considered as venomous serpents, the senses. That's a fact. So the bhakta says that "We are not afraid of the senses." Why? Protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. Because we have extracted the poison teeth. The senses has got a poison teeth. As soon as you indulge in sense gratification, immediately you become degraded. Immediately. So it is just like a venomous serpent. As soon as touches you, little biting, finished your life. So it is like that. Durdānta-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī, indriya. But these venomous snakes, if their poison teeth is taken away, then it may be fearful for the boys and children. But if an elderly person knows that his poison teeth has been taken away, nobody's afraid of it. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that we take away the poison teeth of the senses. So that even Kṛṣṇa conscious persons are allowed for sense gratification, the poison teeth is broken. So therefore they are not gliding down to the hellish condition of life. So in this way, either the karmīs or the jñānīs or the yogis, they are always... They are, every one of them, trying to elevate. And above them is the devotees.

So devotee's place is the highest because by devotion only you can understand what is God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55], Kṛṣṇa says. He does not say that "By karma one can understand Me." He does not say that "By jñāna one can understand Me." He does not say that "By yoga one can understand Me." He clearly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] "Simply by devotional service one can understand Me." Yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. Knowing Him as He is, that is bhakti. So except devotional service, there is no possibility of understanding the Absolute Truth. Any other process means covered. Just like the... You understand the sun planet from here. You are seeing the sun planet, that's a fact, but that does not mean you know what is actually the sun planet is, because you have no access to approach there. You may speculate, that's all. Speculation means the blind man seeing the elephant. Somebody thought, "Oh, it is just like a pillar." Yes. Big, big legs. Somebody understood the trunk. Somebody understood the ears, elephant. There is a story, some blind men studying the elephant. So they were giving different conclusions. Somebody: "The elephant is just like a pillar." Somebody says, "Elephant is just like big boat." Somebody is... Somebody is... But actually what is elephant, if you have no eyes to see, you can go on speculating. Therefore it is here said that pūṣann apāvṛṇu. "Please uncover the covering. Then I can see You."

*So that seeing power is the bhakta's, the devotee's, because Kṛṣṇa certifies, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who have developed love of Godhead by that ointment, prema, ointment... Just like sometimes... In India it is very... They have got some... What is called? Surma? Ungent, surma. Yes. If you apply that surma your sight becomes bright immediately. So if you smear your eyes with love of Godhead, then you will see God always. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Yes. So devotion. So this is the way of understanding God. By service, by enhancing love... This love can be increased only by service. Otherwise there is no possibility. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. The more you increase your service spirit, the more you increase your dormant love of God. And as soon as you are in the perfectional stage of love of God, you see God always, every moment. Twenty-four hours you can see.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Prabhupāda. (end)





710708IP.LA

*Śrī Īśopaniṣad* Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, July 8, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...spiritual. Otherwise, how he speaks of? These things are there in the Vedic literatures. Sa aikṣata: "He glanced over, and there was creation." In Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said that mayādhyakṣena prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. So Kṛṣṇa's, or God's, position is always transcendental. Therefore those who are impersonalists, they are not attracted with the variegatedness of this material life. They want to make it void, because they have no information of the spiritual variegatedness. But this Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he became attracted with the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa because Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are not variegatedness of this material world. It is completely spiritual. And to discuss about Kṛṣṇa or to hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, to glorify about Kṛṣṇa-everything spiritual. So if you are engaged twenty-four hours in this business you are not in this material world. You are in the spiritual world.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. [break]



Prabhupāda: Formerly the spiritual master, the disciplic succession, there are two ways. One is called śaukra and another is called sautra. Śaukra means succession from the seminal. Just like son. Son is born by the semina, and the disciple is born by Vedic knowledge. So the one familywise is called śaukra. Śukra means semina, coming from the śukra, and the other is sautra, by hearing. So spiritual master... In India still there are gotras. Gotras means coming from that great sage. Just like our family belongs to the Gautama gotra. Gautama Ṛṣi, from him the familywise gotra, and similarly disciplic succession is also gotra. There is no difference between putra and chatra. Putra means son, and chatra means disciple. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, putrāṁś ca śiṣyāṁś ca; *they are equally treated. Both of them equally eligible for hereditary rites from the person, either he is son or disciple. So Brahmā distributed knowledge to some... Practically everyone was his son because he was the first living creature. So later on, disciples also, son's son. So in this way Brahmā distributed this Vedic knowledge, some to the sons, some to the... Vyāsadeva also, he distributed knowledge, some to his sons, some to his disciples. That is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So that is the process of disseminating Vedic knowledge. Then?



*Karandhara: (reading:)"The Lord being pūrṇam, or all*-perfect, there is no chance of His being subjected to the laws of material nature, while the living entities and the inanimate objects are all controlled by the laws of nature and thus ultimately by the potency of the Lord. The Īśopaniṣad is a part of the Yajur Veda."



*Prabhupāda: There are four Vedas*-Sāma Veda, Yajur Veda, Ṛg Veda, and Atharva Veda. Originally there was one Veda, but later on, Vyāsadeva divided them into four. So Yajur Veda is one of the Vedas, and the Īśopaniṣad is stated there. All the Upaniṣads are stated in the different kinds of Vedas. Therefore Upaniṣad is accepted as Vedic study. Go on.



Karandhara: "The *Īśopaniṣad* is a part of the Yajur Veda, and as such, it contains information as to the proprietorship of all things that exist within the universe."



*Prabhupāda: Just like evidence. Evidence... (aside:) Now you can sit down. Evidence, whenever we want to give evidence... Just like in law court, the evidence, you have to cite the section or the preamble of the laws. Similarly, in our human civilization this evidence is Vedas. If you find something stated in the Vedas, that you have to accept. That's all. Axiomatic truth. And because the Vedas were particularly studied by the brāhmaṇas, high*-class qualified brāhmaṇas, therefore they are also accepted as authority. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was at Purī, the king of that place, Mahārāja Pratāparudra, he inquired from Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, "Oh, what is your opinion about this Caitanya who has come here?" He said that "He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So the king immediately accepted it. King said, "Oh, He is Supreme Personality of Godhead?" So he accepted immediately, just like... There is no question of experimenting. Because an authority like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya is stating, a brāhmaṇa and... He was very learned scholar. You know Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's name. So because he said that "He is Supreme Personality..." He did not ask any storekeeper, but he asked a learned brāhmaṇa who knows things. So similarly, we have to accept in that way. In each and every case, if we want to research, it is not possible, because our senses are blunt senses. What you can do? Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. The śāstra says that "Things which are beyond your conception, beyond your mental speculation"-avāṅ-manasā gocaraḥ-"neither you can express by words, neither you can think of." Avāṅ-manasā gocaraḥ.



*So such things it is useless, try to understand by arguments. That is simply nonsense. You can, of course, inquire, but that inquiry is not challenge. If you inquire from your spiritual master by challenge, then it is your misfortune. You have to inquire from the spiritual master*-that is indicated-sevayā, by service, by making him satisfied. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. First of all you have to surrender, and then you have to please him by service. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If you can please him, then naturally Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon you. That is the injunction. So this praśna... First of all you should find out somebody where you can surrender. If there is duplicity in surrender, that is useless. First of all see whether you can surrender there; then accept him spiritual master and then please him by your service and inquiry. That is Vedic principle.

Thank you very much. (end)

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā Lectures





681105BS.LA

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 29

-

Los Angeles, November 5, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*"I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is the cause of all causes. He is in the cintāmaṇi*-dhāma." Cintāmaṇi-dhāma means the place which is not made of earth and stone, but they are made of touchstone. Most probably you have heard the name of touchstone. Touchstone can turn iron into gold. So the Lord's abode is made of touchstone, cintāmaṇi. There are houses... As we have got our experience here in this world that houses are made of bricks, there, in the transcendental world, the houses are made of this cintāmaṇi stone, touchstone. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29]. There are also trees, but those trees are not like this tree. The trees are kalpa-vṛkṣa. Here you can take one kind of fruit from one tree, but there, from the trees you can ask anything, and you get it because those trees are all spiritual. That is the difference between matter and spirit. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa lakṣā-vṛteṣu [Bs. 5.29]. Such kind of trees, there are many, not one or two. All the places are covered by all those trees. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam. And the Lord is very much fond of cowherding. And the cows there, they are called surabhīs. Surabhī cow means you can milk as many times and as much as you like. Surabhīr abhipālayantam. And lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ [Bs. 5.29]. And the Lord is always surrounded by the goddesses of fortune, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata, not one or two, but hundreds and thousands, hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune, they are always serving the Lord. And in this way, eternally, blissfully, the Lord is staying in His abode, which is called cintāmaṇi-dhāma. (aside:) Now, how to stop this? (end)





710726BS.NY

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 32

-

New York, July 26, 1971



Prabhupāda:



*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*(aside:) Why not sit comfortably? Please. There is ample space in the front. You can move. So Govinda, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti. Aṅgāni, aṅgāni means the limbs of the body. Just like hands, legs, ear, nose, they're different parts of our body. The distinction between this material body and spiritual body is that just like this hand is made for particular purpose*-you can pick up something, you can touch something, but you cannot taste something. If you want to taste something, then the hand will bring that food to your mouth and will touch your tongue. Then you can know that it is bitter or sweet. But simply by touching the hand it is not possible to understand what is the nature of that particular... Therefore God's body is described here that aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti. Each and every part of the body has got the capacity for other parts of the body. Just like if you want to eat, we have to taste it through the tongue, through the mouth, but Kṛṣṇa, or God, if He simply sees only, He can eat, simply by seeing. This is spiritual body. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti, paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti [Bs. 5.32]. In another sense, this whole cosmic manifestation is also the body of God; *therefore you cannot hide anything from God's vision. In the Brahma..., the same Brahma-saṁhitā, it is said that yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. Savitā. Savitā means the sun, the sun-god, or the sun planet, is the eye, one eye of God. And the other eye is the moon. So He can see all things, what is happening within this universe*-in daytime with His eye called the sun, and at night with moon. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is confirmed. Kṛṣṇa says, prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the sunshine and the moonshine." So people who deny existence of God, they say that "Can you show me God?" You are seeing God. Why you are denying? God says that "I am the sunshine. I am the moonshine." And who has not seen the sunshine and moonshine? Everyone has seen. As soon as there is morning, there is sunshine. So if sunshine is God, then you have seen God. Why do you deny? You cannot deny. Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: [Bg. 7.8] "I am the taste of the water." So who has not tasted water? We are drinking, daily, gallons of water. We are thirsty, and the good taste which quench our thirst, that is Kṛṣṇa.



So you have to see God, or Kṛṣṇa, in this way. Then you'll advance, make advance. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to see in everything, Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we see living entity... Never mind whether he's a human being or animal or insect or bird or plant or aquatic; *they're all living entities. In the sea, there are nine hundred thousand species of living entities. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi. These are the statements in the Vedic scriptures. Exactly stated: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. It does not say ten hundred thousand; *it says nine hundred thousand. Exact calculation. Now bring any biologist to calculate how many species are there in the water. They cannot say. But here, in the Padma Purāṇa, Vedic literature, you get exact information how many species of living entities are there within the water. Everyone knows that there are living entities, full of living entities. We are catching fish, but small fishes. We have not seen. Even if we have seen the biggest fish, that is, whale... Sometimes they are as big as one big ship. But there are other fishes, we get information, they are called timiṅgila. The big fish, the whale fish, and timiṅgila means there is another big fish which swallows this timiṅgila, this whale just like anything. These informations are there. And in Calcutta Museum, in our childhood-it may be still existing*-we saw one skeleton of a fish that is bigger than this room, a skeleton. It is hanging on the ceiling. So there are very, very big, big fishes. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. You get immediately information, without being a biologist, scientist, you can get information. The Darwin's theory, in most perfection, there is in the Padma Purāṇa: jīva-jatiṣu. The evolutionary theory is there. But Darwin is missing the real point: Who is, who is evolving? He's missing the spirit soul. He cannot explain. That is imperfect.

*But in the Vedic scripture you have got perfect knowledge, how a living entity is developing different types of body. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. First of all, nine lakhs' species of living entities within water. In the water, the living seeds are there. The other day I was showing our other devotees how from the stone the grass is coming. There is a crack in the stone, and the grass is coming out. How it is? Nobody has gone to put some seeds within the cracking of the stone. How the grass is coming? The grass is coming because the water penetrates within the crack, and as soon as it gets in touch with the earth, it sprouts. That means within water there are seeds of living entities. Some of them fall down from the higher planetary system. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: kṣine puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti [Bg. 9.21]. As soon as their period of enjoyment is finished, they are again brought down on this earthly planet. Just like in your country the immigration-every country*-the immigration department, if somebody has come, he has got a visa for six months or one year, or something like that. As soon as it is finished, immediately the immigration department notifies: "Please get out. Please get out." Similarly, in other planets also, there are higher planetary systems where material comforts are many thousand times better than in your USA. Your United States is considered to have the best facilities, comfortable materialistic way of life. That is the calculation outside. So supposing that you have got the best facilities for material enjoyment. In higher planetary system there are many thousand times better facilities. You can go there. The living entities are therefore called sarva-gataḥ. A living entity can go anywhere he likes, but he requires qualification. Any country, when one is admitted, he must have visa, he must have passport, he must have required money to stay in a foreign country. So many rules and regulations are there. Similarly, in the higher planetary system also, where you get ten thousand years of duration of life, and their one year is far, far greater than ours. That is scientific.

*So these, this material world is also the virāṭ*-rūpa, universal form, of the Lord. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. I'm just trying to explain what is the body of the Supreme Lord. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna was shown the virāṭ-rūpa, the universal form of the Lord. Now why Arjuna wanted to see the universal form of Kṛṣṇa? The reason is that Arjuna knew it very well... Because in the Tenth chapter Arjuna accepts Kṛṣṇa that paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "You are the Supreme Lord, paraṁ brahma, and pavitra, the purest." So Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, and still, in the Eleventh Chapter he requested Kṛṣṇa that "If You'll kindly show me Your universal form." Try to understand. Arjuna knew it very well that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. Why he wanted to examine Kṛṣṇa? Not for himself, but for others. Because Arjuna knew it very well that in future so many false Gods would appear: "I am God." So before accepting anyone as God, imitating Kṛṣṇa, one should inquire from him "Whether you can lift a hill? Whether you can show the universal form? Whether you can kill such and such demons? Then I shall accept." That is intelligence. Don't accept a foolish man, declaring himself as God, and you accept also God. God is not so cheap. You should know what is God. These descriptions are there. No more, no man, no living entity is greater than God. Therefore God is said: "God is great." Great means nobody can be greater than Him, nobody can be equal to Him. That is greatness. Six opulences. That is analytical study what is God.

So these things are being taught from authoritative scripture and..., what is God, what is our relationship with Him, and what is our function in that relationship. We should know it. Unless we try to know it, simply we waste our time in frivolous activities, that is not proper utilization of human form of life. We are simply requesting people that "You don't waste your valuable time." Our time is so valuable. It has been calculated by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great politician, prime minister, in India, about three thousand years ago, when Candragupta was the emperor. It was about contemporary to Alexander the Great in the Greek history. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was there. He was a great diplomat. He has calculated the value of our life. He says... It is very practical. Anyone can calculate.

āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi

*na labhya svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ

na cet nirarthakaṁ (nītiḥ)

kā ca hānis tato 'dhikā



*He says, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa. Even one moment of your life cannot be returned even you spend millions of dollars. One of our friends in India, he was at that time fifty-four years old, but he was dying. So he was requesting the doctor, "Doctor, kindly give some medicine so that I may live for another four years. I have got so many things to do." Just see, the crazy fellow. You see. This is called ignorance. He does not know that "What to call..., what to say of four years, the doctor cannot give me four minutes prolongation of life." When the life is ended, it is ended. Nobody can... Any medicine, any physical, physiological treatment will not help. That is not possible. You have got a duration of life, say, fifty years, sixty years, seventy years*-a hundred years, utmost. You cannot increase it by paying money. What to speak of four years; you cannot increase four seconds. So just try to understand how much our life is valuable. A second of our life we cannot purchase by paying millions of dollars. And if that second is wasted without any utilization, then how much money we are losing. This is the calculation.



So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is only to remind people that "Please do not waste your time, valuable time, life. Utilize it. This is the opportunity to make a solution of all the problems of life." There is means, there are ways, how to do it. That we are describing. Yesterday we discussed tapasā, by austerity; brahmacaryeṇa, by celibacy; śamena, by controlling the mind; damena, by controlling the senses; tyāgena, by giving in charity your money. That is called tyāga. Suppose you have got millions of dollars. Don't keep it. So long it is within your jurisdiction, spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Yes. That is the proper utilization. Because actually the money is not yours, because you cannot carry this money with your death. As soon as you quit this body, or death, so your money and everything, what you collected with this body, with the finishing of this body, everything is finished. But you go. You are spirit soul. You transmigrate to another body. So your money which you earned previously, in your previous body, that you do not know where it is kept, or how it is being spent up. During your lifetime, you may make very nice deed, how the money should be spent by your sons or by your heirs, but now, suppose you left in your last life ten thousand millions of dollars somewhere, but you have nothing, no claim for that money. Therefore so long it is in your hand, spend it. Tyāgena, tyāgena. Spend for good purpose, not for... This money, if you spend for bad purposes, then you become entangled. If you spend for good purposes, then you get good return. That's a fact.

*These things are very nicely, clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This dhana, charity*-the Bhagavad-gītā says there are three kinds of charities. One charity is in the mode of goodness, one charity is in the mode of passion, and one charity is in the mode of ignorance. So mode of goodness charity means you should know where charity is to be given. Dātavyam: here charity is to be given. So where charity is given? First-class charity, in goodness? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, yad karoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi dadāsi yat, tat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam: [Bg. 9.27] "Whatever you are eating, whatever you are undergoing, austerity, whatever you are doing, whatever you are giving in charity, give it to Me." Kṛṣṇa's not in want of money, because He's the original proprietor of everything, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. But still He's asking from you money. Just like Kṛṣṇa went to beg something from Bali Mahārāja in the shape of a Vāmana, a dwarf brāhmaṇa. So He is the sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He's the proprietor of all the planets. And still He's saying that dadāsi yat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam: "Whatever you are giving in charity, please give it to Me." Why? It is for your interest, because the sooner you return Kṛṣṇa's money to Kṛṣṇa, you are better situated. In, in, of course, it will not be very palatable to hear, but actually we are all thieves. We have stolen God's property. That is material life. Anyone who has got anything without sense of God, it is to be understood that he has stolen the property. If you very cool-headed think over this matter, that you are... If we do not understand God, if we do not understand whose property we are using, and if you come to the real knowledge: without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whatever we possess, that is stolen property, stolen property... Stena eva saḥ ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. It is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. If one does not expend his money for yajña, then he is to be understood... Just like there is many, many instances... Just like you have earned so much money. If you hide income tax, then you are criminal. You can say, "I have earned money. Why shall I pay income tax, government?" No. You must pay. And there is a limit, that if you have earned so much money, practically the whole money will be taken as income tax, super tax. So as everything you earn, it is the property of the government, similarly, why not everything, whatever you got, it is Kṛṣṇa's or God's? Is it very difficult to understand? Actually it is so. Suppose you have constructed a very nice building. So the building requires so many stone, wood, earth. Wherefrom you have got it? You have not produced the wood. It is God's property. You have not produced the metal; you have taken it from the mine. That is God's property. The earth, also, the bricks also, which you have made you have simply given your labor. That labor is also God's property, because you work with your hand, but it is not your hand; it is God's hand. If it is your hand, then when it is paralyzed, you cannot use it. When the power of using your energy of the hand is withdrawn by God, you cannot work.

*So these are the things to be studied in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't be frivolous. Don't waste your time. This is the greatest opportunity, human form of life. We have to understand all these things. They are mentioned in the authoritative books, Vedic knowledge. Just we are reading, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, before you. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī's recommending that prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Real atonement is to be thoughtful, sober, think over... That is called meditation. You think over whether your body, or if you are something else, transcendental to body, what is God. So if you want to know all this knowledge, then you have to practice austerity, tapasya. And the beginning of tapasya is brahmacarya. I've explained yesterday: brahmacarya, celibacy, or restricted sex life. Not unrestricted. That's not good. Then you forget yourself. This material attraction is sex life. Not only human society*-in animal society, in bird society, everywhere. You have seen the sparrows, the pigeons, they're having sex life three hundred times daily, you see, although they are very vegetarian. Yes. And the lion is not vegetarian, but it has got sex life only once in a year. So it is not the question of vegetarian or nonvegetarian. It is the question of understanding higher standard of knowledge. When one comes to the standard of high elevated knowledge, naturally he becomes vegetarian. Because paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Paṇḍita means one who is very highly learned, paṇḍita. Sama-darśinaḥ. Sama-darśinaḥ means he does not distinguish between a man, learned man...

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*A paṇḍita is sama*-darśī. He sees equally, who? A very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa; and a elephant; and a dog; *and a cow. How he's sama*-darśī? How his vision is equal to all of them? Because he does not see the body; *he sees the soul. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ. He sees the Brahman, spark, that "Here is a dog, but it is also a living entity. By his past karma, he has become a dog. And here is a learned scholar. He's also living spark. But he has got this nice opportunity for his past karma." So he does not see the body. He sees the spirit soul, spark. So when one comes to that position, he does not make any distinction between this living entity to that living entity.



*So our proposition: If you inquire, "Then why you restrict, "No meat-eating'?" The answer is that actually we do not make any distinction between the meat-eaters and the vegetable eaters, because the cow or the goat or the lamb has got life, and the grass, it has also got life. But we follow the Vedic instruction. What is that? Now, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: [Īśo mantra 1] everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, and you can enjoy whatever is allotted to you. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. You cannot touch others' body, others' property. You cannot touch. That is Vedic life. So in all scriptures it is stated that man should live on fruits and vegetables. Their teeth are made in that way. They can eat very easily and digest. Although jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: one has to live by eating another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya... That is nature's law. So the vegetarian also eating another living entity. And the meat-eater, they're also eating another... But there is discretion. Discretion means that these things are made for human being. Just like fruits, flowers, vegetables, rice, grains, milk*-the animals do not come to claim that "I shall eat this." No. It is meant for man. Just like milk. Milk is an animal product. It is the blood of the cow changed only. But the milk is not drunk by the cow. She is delivering the milk, but she's not taking, because it is not allotted for it. By nature's way. So you have to take. Milk is made for man, so you take the milk. Let her live and supply you milk continually. Why should you kill? Follow nature's law. Then you'll be happy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. Whatever is allotted to you, take. You live comfortably. So our, in temple, in this temple, we take fruits, flowers, milk because they're allotted, and Kṛṣṇa says: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "You give Me meat." Kṛṣṇa says, "You give Me fruits, flowers, vegetables, milk." So we prepare nice preparations out of these things, we offer it to Kṛṣṇa, and we take it. If Kṛṣṇa would have said that "Give Me eggs and meat," then we would have given and eaten it. But because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we do not take anything which is not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.

So in this way, this is called śama dama. We have to learn this art of elevation. Tapasya. That is called austerity, regulative principle; brahmacaryeṇa, by celibacy, or by restricted sex life; śamena, by controlling the mind; damena, by controlling the senses; *tyāgena, by giving charity. The charity... Charitable disposition of mind is there in everyone's heart, but one does not know how to make the best use of charity. Best use of... Not only charity*-whatever you spend, you must spend for Kṛṣṇa. That is the best way of spending. You are not loser. Just like you are spending for Kṛṣṇa, earning for Kṛṣṇa. Suppose we are offering nice dishes to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He keeps it as it is: you eat. It is for you. But simply by offering to Kṛṣṇa you become Kṛṣṇa's devotee. That's all. For nothing. You don't spend anything, not a farthing even. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's, but if you offer it to Kṛṣṇa, you elevate. That's all.

Thank you very much. (end)



720814BS.LA

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 32 Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, August 14, 1972



Prabhupāda: Man is made after God. We are imitation of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not imitation of us. The atheist class, they think that "They have painted a form of God according to one's own feature of the body." What is called? Anthropomorphism. But that is not the fact. Here in this material world we are getting different types of forms of body, 8,400,000's. When we get this human form of body, it is just imitation of Kṛṣṇa's body. Kṛṣṇa has got two hands; we have got two hands. Kṛṣṇa has got two legs; *we have got two legs. But the difference of this body and Kṛṣṇa's body is stated in this verse: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. Here, with our hands, we can catch something but we cannot walk. But Kṛṣṇa can walk with His hands. Or with our legs we can simply walk, but we cannot catch something. But Kṛṣṇa can catch also. With our eyes we can see, but we cannot eat. But Kṛṣṇa can see with His eyes and eat also and hear also. That is the explanation of this verse. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti: [Bs. 5.32] "Each and every limb has got the function of the other limbs." That is called Absolute. He is not dependent. He is not dependent. Just like if we have lost our sight, we become dependent; no more we can see. But Kṛṣṇa can see with His hand, with His leg. Try to understand. Therefore He is Absolute. This is the meaning of Absolute. Everything is complete. Pūrṇam adaḥ. Pūrṇa means complete. So atheist will say that "You offer foodstuff. Where Kṛṣṇa eats? The foodstuff is still there." But they do not know that simply by seeing, Kṛṣṇa can eat. And because He is complete, He eats and again keeps the thing complete. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. He can take everything complete, again it remains complete. Just like when we take food, we finish it. No more. But Kṛṣṇa can eat; at the same time, the things may remain as it is. Otherwise where is the difference between ourself and Kṛṣṇa? That is the difference.



*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

[Bs. 5.32]



*Why it is so? Ānanda-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya. Vigraha, His form is not like our form. When in the Vedas it is stated, "formless," that means His form is not like our form*-not that He is formless. The form is of different quality.



*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

[Bs. 5.32]



*These are possible when the body is made of ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa. This body is material. It is not ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. The material body is different from the spiritual body. That they do not know. So when the Vedas says nirākāra, "formless," that means He has no material form; *He has got spiritual form. That spiritual form means full of bliss, ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). Vedānta-sūtra. By nature ānandamaya. There is nothing nirānanda. That is spiritual world, always full of bliss, full of knowledge, and eternity. That is spiritual. You live eternally and full of knowledge. Here so many things we do not know. It is full of ignorance, this body, and full of miseries. Moment after moment, we are, due to this body, we are always in miserable condition, threefold miseries-adhyātmika, adhibhautika... So people do not try to understand this philosophy, but in the Vedic literature, each and every line, there is philosophy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitā.



*So this is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9], "My appearance, disappearance, and activities, they are all transcendental," so how it is transcendental? Because His body is different from us. The bodily limbs are different from us. The activities of the body are different from us. And because He is full with all potency, in spite of all these transcendental qualities, He can present Himself as one of us. And those who are rascals, they think that "Kṛṣṇa is like us." Because He presents Himself as one of us by His omnipotency, the fools take him as one of us. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. Muḍḥā means rascals, foolish people. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ: "They do not know the transcendental nature of Me." This is transcendental nature, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti. This is explained by Brahmā. Brahma-saṁhitā means... Brahmā is the first living creature appeared in this universe, and after his realization, he is offering prayer. Realization means you should write, every one of you, what is your realization. What for this Back to Godhead is? You write your realization, what you have realized about Kṛṣṇa. That is required. It is not passive. Always you should be active. Whenever you find time, you write. Never mind, two lines, four lines, but you write your realization. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, writing or offering prayers, glories. This is one of the function of the Vaiṣṇava. You are hearing, but you have to write also. Then write means smaraṇam, remembering what you have heard from your spiritual master, from the scripture. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ: [SB 7.5.23] about Viṣṇu, not for others. Don't write any nonsense thing for any nonsense man. Useless waste of time. Viṣṇu. Write about Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. This is cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hear, write, remember, try to understand. Don't be dull, dull-headed. Very intelligent. Without being very intelligent, nobody can have full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is for the most intelligent man. So that intelligence will come if you try to understand Kṛṣṇa. We have got so many books. Always try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then you are liberated. Simply by... You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa in full. He is unlimited; our knowledge is limited. But as far as you can, try to understand Kṛṣṇa. These are the items.

*Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam [Bs. 5.30]. He is engaged in playing on flute. It is not artists' painting that Kṛṣṇa is painted as a very nice, beautiful young boy and He has got a flute. No. These are Vedic statement.

*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



Now, the ārati, begin. (end)





710719BS.NY

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 33

-

New York, July 19, 1971



Prabhupāda:



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*So advaita. Advaita means without duality. Advaita acyuta, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Kṛṣṇa's expansion: Baladeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, Pradyumna. Then Nārāyaṇa, then Mahā*-Viṣṇu, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu-innumerable expansions. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Each and every form, Kṛṣṇa's, they are without any duality. Just like I and my photograph, that is my expansion, but it is not one; it is dual. What service you can take from me, you cannot take the service from the photograph. Therefore it is not advaita; it is dvaita, duality. You may have millions of photographs, but each one of them, they're different. But Kṛṣṇa, He has got millions of forms, they're one. That is the difference. Advaitam acyutam. Acyutam means one who does not fall down. Because he has expanded in so many forms, it does not mean the potency of Kṛṣṇa has decreased. The same thing you chant in the Īśopaniṣad: pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. Kṛṣṇa is so full, pūrṇa. Pūrṇa means complete. If you take complete Kṛṣṇa from Kṛṣṇa, still, He is Kṛṣṇa. That you cannot understand in the materialistic condition, because if I have got one rupee or one dollar, if I take that one dollar, then it becomes zero. But Kṛṣṇa is so complete you go on taking Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, still, Kṛṣṇa is complete. Advaita acyuta. Acyuta means does not diminish or does not fall.



*Advaitam acyutam anādi. Anādi means which has no beginning. Because we have got this material body we have got a beginning. You may ask somebody, "What is your birthday?" That means beginning. Anything material, it has got a beginning and end. Anything which has got beginning has got end also, and change also. So Kṛṣṇa has no beginning, there is no end, and there is no change. Try to understand. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta means unlimited. Unlimited forms, Kṛṣṇa. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam. He's the original, oldest person. Because ādyaṁ, original. Just like if you find out in your family who is the original man, so as far as you can count, you go a hundred years, two hundred years back, find out who is the origin of your family members, so that man must be Purāṇa. Purāṇa means very old. Kṛṣṇa, being the original person, ādi-puruṣam... Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. Ādi means original. So you do not think that he might have become very, very old. Because our material conception... Sometimes we paint picture: "God is the original person. Then He must be very old. He must have grown so much white, gray hairs." No. The Vedic knowledge says, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam [Bs. 5.33]. The oldest man, but nava-yauvanaṁ ca, always just like a young man, sixteen to twenty years old. That is called nava-yauvana. When a man or woman comes to sixteen years, that is the beginning of youthful life. So sixteen to twenty years, this is very nice*-in full energy. And that is the time for growth, intelligence. Unfortunately, we spoil this period, so we become less intelligent, life becomes shorter. If we spoil this period, then our life will be shortened. And if we keep this period complete celibacy, brahmacārī, then you can live up to hundred years. So this period is very nice. It is called nava-yauvana, just new youthful life. So Kṛṣṇa you'll find all new, always new youthful. You'll never find Kṛṣṇa's picture as old. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca.

*Then again, it is said, vedeṣu durlabha. (aside:) What is that sound? Vedeṣu durlabham. Vede means in the Vedic literature, if you make research work how Kṛṣṇa is, then it will be very difficult. Then you come to the impersonal only. Vedeṣu durlabham. You have to go beyond the Vedas. What is that? Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Kṛṣṇa is available through His confidential devotee. Not that if anyone has studied very nicely all Vedic literatures he'll understand Kṛṣṇa. No. Maybe, but it is very difficult. Kṛṣṇa can be delivered by His devotee, ātma-bhaktau. Therefore you have to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's devotee. That is paramparā system. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, if you want to have Kṛṣṇa... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung a very nice song. He's praying to a Vaiṣṇava, vaiṣṇava ṭhākura tomāra kukkura bhuliyā jānaha more: "Sir, Vaiṣṇava, you are Ṭhākura. You are as good as Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kindly accept me as your dog." Vaiṣṇava ṭhākura tomāra kukkura bhuliyā jāna... Kukkura means dog. Just like dog follows the master very faithfully. We have to learn something from the dog. The dog also is a teacher: how to become faithful to the master. That teaching we can have even from the dog. He is very satisfied. Whatever food you give, he'll not protest. Still, he'll remain faithful. There are so many good qualifications of a dog. So therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, vaiṣṇava ṭhākura tomāra kukkura bhuliyā jānaha more: "Kindly accept me as your dog. I shall serve you faithfully." Why? Kṛṣṇa se tomāra kṛṣṇa dite pāra: "Because Kṛṣṇa is yours, you can deliver Kṛṣṇa." Very nice song. "Kṛṣṇa is yours. By your devotional service, you have made Kṛṣṇa your property; *so you can deliver Kṛṣṇa to me. Therefore I want to follow you as faithfully as a dog." Vedeṣu durlabham. This is confirmed in the Brahma*-saṁhitā: vedeṣu durlabha. If you study independently all the Vedas... Veda is the source of knowledge. So vedeṣu durlabha, it will be difficult. But if we approach Kṛṣṇa's devotee, then it will be very easy. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau.

*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvenaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*This is the next śloka. The record is aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. Next śloka is this, advaitam acyutam anādim. You can repeat. Advaita. I say, you say. (devotees repeat:)



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



(sings:)



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



Thank you very much. (end)





710727BS.NY

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 33

-

New York, July 27, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. This verse, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32], we have explained. Next verse is advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. There are thirty-six verses in this record. You have chanted only three verses, three or four. So the next verse is,



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*Kṛṣṇa, He has got multiforms. We are also Kṛṣṇa's forms, vibhinnāṁśa. There are two categories of forms, Kṛṣṇa's: viṣṇu*-tattva and jīva-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva, a Kṛṣṇa person, and jīva-tattva, separated personalities. So the jīvas, they are also Kṛṣṇa's forms, vibhinnāṁśa. They are called vibhinnāṁśa. Just imagine the living entities, innumerable forms there are. That is conditioned living entities. Whatever we see within this material world, that is only a fragment part of all the living entities. The major portion of the living entities, they are in the spiritual world. They are called nitya-mukta, ever-liberated. And we, in this material world, we are nitya-baddha, ever-conditioned. Besides that, Kṛṣṇa has got Viṣṇu tattva form, personal. Viṣṇu tattva form means that one form is as powerful as the other form. In the vibhinnāṁśa form, we are not as powerful as Kṛṣṇa. But there are forms of Kṛṣṇa who are as powerful as Kṛṣṇa. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya [Bs. 5.46]. Just like you take this candle and you light on another candle, another candle-but all these candles are of the same power, although the original candle is there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, and there are innumerable other forms of Godhead also. But they are as good as Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. The potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is so great that if another Godhead is expanded, both of them are of the same potency. Therefore it is advaita acyuta. Acyuta means who never falls. Living entities, although they are forms of Kṛṣṇa, they fall down. Just like our present condition is fallen condition. We are in the matter. But the personal expansions, they never fall in the matter. Therefore another name of God, or Kṛṣṇa, is Acyuta. Acyuta means never falls.



*Advaita acyuta anādi. Our beginning is from God, but God has no beginning. Anādi. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta*-rūpam, although the forms are many millions and trillions. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam, ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam. Ādyam, original. Therefore the oldest person. Kṛṣṇa, God is the original person; *therefore the oldest person. Still nava*-yauvanaṁ ca. But still He's always youth, youthful. Vedeṣu durlabha. To search out Kṛṣṇa by academic education, by mental speculation, by pursuits of different types of knowledge is not possible. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam nava-yauvanam, vedeṣu durlabha. You cannot find out Kṛṣṇa by simply academic education. Adurlabha ātma-bhaktau. But He is available from His devotee. If you approach a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he can deliver you Kṛṣṇa like anything: "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Take." Kṛṣṇa is so nice. He becomes a doll in the hands of devotee. He agrees. Just like before mother Yaśodā He was trembling. Mother Yaśodā showed Him the cane.

*So this is Kṛṣṇa's merciful pastime, that He becomes very easily available to the devotees. Otherwise it is very difficult to find out where is Kṛṣṇa, how is Kṛṣṇa. So our process is therefore to go through the devotees, not directly. Directly one cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa... Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.33]. We worship Govinda, the original Personality of Godhead. That is our business.

Now you can begin. (end)



730906BS.STO

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 33

-

Stockholm, September 6, 1973, Upsala University



*Prabhupāda: I'll sing from Vedic literature the description of the spiritual world. (chants verses from the Brahma*-saṁhitā with devotees) So there are about thirty-five verse like this in the Brahma-saṁhitā describing the tran... [break] ...place of the Lord. It takes time. I have cited about a dozen only. Let me try to explain some of them. Because I have already taken much time. So one verse in these we find:



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*The Lord is one, without a second, advaita. Acyuta: the Lord never falls down. The distinction between Lord and ourself... We are also eternal living entities, and the Lord is also eternal. He's also a living entity, a person, just like us, but His name is Acyuta. He never falls from His position. But we living entities, sometimes we fall down. Just our material condition of life. This is our falldown. Therefore He's called advaitam acyutam anādim. And He has no beginning. He is the beginning of everything. The creation is from Him, but He has no creator. So advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. And He has got multi-forms. He can expand Himself. The one expansion is that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He has expanded Himself to live with you within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām. Not only that; *another place it is described, eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi. One portion of the Lord... That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Jagat means this material world. That is being maintained by one of His plenary portions, which is called Paramātmā. Or Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, or Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. So one portion of His plenary portion, He is within the material world. A material world means within the universe. Aṇḍāntara-stham. Aṇḍa, brahmāṇḍa means this universe. This is not only one universe, but there are many millions of universes. So He's there. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. And aṇḍāntara-stham: He is within the universe. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham: [Bs. 5.35] and He is within the atom also. Just, just imagine expansion of God. So advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Although He's the oldest of all, you'll find Kṛṣṇa always a young man. He's, from His face, we'll find a young boy, twenty to twenty-five years. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Vedeṣu durlabham. If you want to search out God by studying Vedas, it will be very difficult. Adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. But He's very easily available from His devotee. This is the description.



Then, in another place,

*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto...

[Bs. 5.37]



*The Lord... Everything is not material. That is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. His form is eternity, blissful and full of knowledge. So all His paraphernalia in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, that is His expansion of that quality, eternity, blissfulness and knowledge. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis. His gopīs, His consorts, His father, His mother, His friends, His trees, His flowers, His calves and cows-everything is spiritual, expansion from Him. Everything... The... We are also expansion from Him. We are marginal potency. And this is spiritual potency. So everything is expansion. Therefore the Vedic literatures say, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman." We are now combination of two energies, marginal energy and the external energy. But in the spiritual world, everything is only spiritual energy. So we are constitutionally spiritual energy. Somehow or other we have been entangled with this material energy. So if we try in this human form of life, we can get out of this material energy and again go back to the spiritual energy. That is the opportunity. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37].



*Another śloka is to explain: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. The spiritual body is equally qualified for doing everything. Just like with our hand, we can touch only. We cannot do... Or we can pick up something. But by simply having hand, or with the hand, we cannot eat. For eating we shall have to use this mouth, we have to use the stomach. But in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa, about Him is described: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. Each and every limb of Kṛṣṇa has got the potency of other limbs. He can eat by His eyes. He can hear from His eyes. And anything, all the parts of the limbs, because they are spiritual, you can use it for any purpose. This is not understandable in this material condition of life, but it is possible. These things are there.

*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*So His spiritual world, this, His planet, is described that cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. In His planet, there are many trees, many palaces, but they're all spiritual. Cintāmaṇi means spiritual. The houses, they're made of touchstone. Just like here the houses are made of bricks and wood; *there the houses are also spiritual. The touchstone... It is described in the śāstra that if there is any touchstone in this material world, the touchstone can turn the iron into gold. So anyway, the houses... There are houses also. Big, big palaces, like here. Cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa. And the trees are kalpa-vṛkṣa. Kalpa-vṛkṣa means where you can get fruit, one kind of fruit from one tree, but there, any fruit you want, you can get any tree. That is spiritual world. Prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa. Kalpa-vṛkṣa means that. And surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. And Kṛṣṇa is very fond of tending cows. And what are those cows? Surabhī. Surabhī means you can take as much milk as you like and as many times as you like. Here in this material world you have got cows, but you can take milk, limited quantity. And also once or twice. That is the difference.



*In this way, if you read Brahma*-saṁhitā, you'll get complete description of the spiritual world, the spiritual entities, the Supreme Lord, His associates. His country, His pastimes, everything, very nicely described. And if we become attached to such place, then we can try, we can try, we can prepare ourself for going back to home, back to Godhead. That is the perfection of life. That is the mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 34

-

San Francisco, September 13, 1968



680913BS.SF



Prabhupāda: (singing)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



Chant!

*Devotees: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Devotees: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Devotees: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: This prayer for Govinda is from Brahma*-saṁhitā. It is very old literature, and nobody can say when it was spoken, but it is understood that these verses were written by Brahmā, and when Lord Caitanya was traveling in South India He picked up this book from a temple, hand-written, and He delivered to His devotees. So, it is very authorized book. In this book the description of Kṛṣṇa is very vivid, vividly given. There His place, His activities, His form, everything is there nicely given. So, this, this verse, it is, it is not first verse. This is the 34th verse of the Fifth Chapter. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam. That, that place, cintāmaṇi ... Cintāmaṇi, a stone. In the transcendental world the, as we have got experience here, the houses are made of bricks, there the houses are made of cintāmaṇi stone. The cintāmaṇi stone is..., of course there is no exact translation, but it is understood it is something like touchstone. Touchstone means the stone which if it touches a iron, it transforms into gold.



*So, the abode of Kṛṣṇa is described that there are houses, cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu. Prakara means house. And cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa, and that the trees are desire trees. What is that desire tree? Just like here in, in this material world, a tree is meant for delivering a particular fruit or flower, but desire tree means whatever you desire you get immediately delivered from the tree. That is called, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu, kalpa-vṛkṣa. Kalpa means whatever you like, whatever you will. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu. Such trees are not one. Just like here in your country, as soon as you go outside the city there are hundreds and thousands of trees, there is neither fruit nor flower, but they are meant for fuel or some other purposes. But there, there are many millions of trees which are all desire trees. Whatever you want, it is present there. The tree will supply immediately. Prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu. And surabhīr abhipālayantam. Kṛṣṇa is engaged in, as, a cowherds boy. He is herding cows. What sort of cows? Surabhiḥ. Surabhiḥ means that cow supplies you milk as much as you like, and as many times you can, you like, you can draw milk from that cow. Immense supply of milk, surabhīr abhipālayantam. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam, and the Lord is worshiped by many hundreds, thousands of goddess of fortune. The gopīs, here you see the picture. That is a little sample only. But in the transcendental kingdom the Lord is always served with all great respect and obeisances and devotion, many thousands of goddess of fortune. That goddess of fortune means they are most beautiful, and everything is complete, that such a place and such abode and such activities are described about Kṛṣṇa.

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*And that Personality of Godhead, Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, is the original person. As in the Vedānta*-sūtra it is said, "Who is Brahman? What is Brahman? What is the Absolute Truth?" (break)

Devotees: (singing) ...tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: So, the description is that Govinda is very fond of playing on flute, venum. Venum means flute. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ. His eyes are just like lotus petals. Very beautiful eyes. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam. And He likes peacock feather, peacock feather on the head. So you will find Kṛṣṇa always with peacock feather. He wears a very valuable helmet, helmet on His head, but you will find one peacock feather. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam, and His complexion of the body is blackish, just like new clouds. He is not that complexion light; *He is blackish, Kṛṣṇa, and..., but He is so beautiful, all*-attractive. Here, of course, in this material world, blackish we do not like; *we want fair complexion. But Kṛṣṇa, the original person, He is blackish, but not blackish like this. Kandarpa*-koti-kamaniya-visesa-sobham. His beauty is surpassing many millions of Cupids. You have heard the name of Cupid. He is a very enchanting person, loving person, but here it is descibed, kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ. If you assemble millions of Cupids in one place, still it can not be compared with the beauty of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam, always playing on flute. (singing)



*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*Devotees: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Devotees: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: So just imagine the position of the Kṛṣṇa conscious person. Everyone is worshiping somebody. Somebody is worshiping his wife, somebody is worship..., worshiping his husband, somebody is worshiping the leader of the country, somebody is worshiping something, something, something. And if anyone has nothing, then somebody is worshiping a dog, a cat. But we are worshiping the original person, Kṛṣṇa. Just see our position. Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. We are not flattering ordinary things. We have captured the original. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. And why not? He is so...



Devotees: (all shout simultaneously, enthusiastically) Jaya, hari bol!



*Prabhupāda: He is so beautiful. (laughter) Kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ. And calling us, by playing on His flute, nice flute. When He was playing His flute, all the gopīs, they would give up all their family duties, everything, and go off to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Their fathers, their brothers, their husbands, who will call them, "Where you are going? It is dead of night!" "No, we are going to Kṛṣṇa."



Devotees: (laughter) Jaya, hari bol!



*Prabhupāda: So, Kṛṣṇa is so nice. Just to attract us, that you want love, here, at Vṛndāvana, He appears at Vṛndāvana, in Vṛndāvana, and shows His līlā, His activities, just to attract us. How lovable object! You are trying to find out something lovable. You are being frustrated. Here is something complete, if you love, you will become complete. And this Govinda can be achieved simply by love. You don't require any other qualification. He is so great, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the proprietor of everything, but what does He want from you? In the Bhagavad*-gītā He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. We can worship Kṛṣṇa with a little flower, with a little fruit, a little water, that's all. How universal it is! A little flower, a little fruit, a little water can be collected by any poor man. You don't require to earn many thousands of dollars to worship Kṛṣṇa. Why Kṛṣṇa will ask you, you contribute dollars, or millions of rupees? No. He is full in Himself. He has got everything, complete. So He is not beggar. But, He is beggar. In what sense? He is begging your love. Therefore He says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. He is not beggar from you a little flower, a little fruit, but Kṛṣṇa said, "If something should be given to Me. Please try to give Me something, because that is the token of love. You are taking so many things from Me. I am supplying you light, I am supplying air, I am supplying you water, I am supplying you life, food, everything. You can not reciprocate something for Me? I am asking you simply a little water, little flower, a little leaf." So, what does He want? He wants yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. He wants simply bhakti, or love, pure love. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ. And because a devotee is lover of Kṛṣṇa, brings these things in love and devotion, therefore Kṛṣṇa says, aham aśnāmi: "I get that and eat that."



Devotees: Jaya, hari bol!



Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa worship is not very costly affair. Simply you have to decide that "I shall love only Kṛṣṇa." And if you love only Kṛṣṇa, then you will actually love everything. If you love..., because you are loving the root. Just like if you supply foodstuff to your stomach, then you supply foodstuff all the parts of your body. This is the method. The Bhāgavata describes this method.



*yathā taror mūla*-niṣecanena

*}tṛpyanti tat*-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ

prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ

tatha (iva) sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā

[SB 4.31.14]



*Just like, taror mūla*-niṣecanena, if you supply water on the root of the tree, the water is immediately transferred to the branches, to the leaves, to the flowers, to the fruits-everywhere. Everyone knows it. It is scientific. But if you supply water to one leaf, or thousand leaves, it does not mean that other leaves are also getting the benefit. So, at the present moment, people are captivated for human welfare activities. Oh, what human welfare activities they will do? It is not in your power. You can do something, but very limited. There are living entities, they are not only human beings. There are 8,400,000's of living entities, and the human living entities they are only minute portion. They are only 400,000's these, only. Other living entities, they are eight million. That is not very difficult to understand. If you take a census of the living entities in the city of San Francisco, then the census of the human being residing in this city, they will be very, a small number in comparison to the birds, bests, aquatics, ants, and so many other living entities, so many other living entities. So, suppose a portion of human living entity you serve, then what is the value of service? What is the value of that service?

Therefore, the Bhāgavata says, just like watering the root of the tree you can serve all the leaves, flowers, branches, and everything of the tree, just by supplying foodstuff to your stomach you can serve all the limbs of your body, similarly, simply by loving Kṛṣṇa you can learn how to love everyone. If you don't love Kṛṣṇa, and if you love the whole universe, it is still imperfect. Imperfect. And, because we are not loving Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are sectarian. Just like, take for example your country, or any country, it doesn't matter. I am giving example, I am not attacking anybody, I am giving example. You love your countrymen. That's very nice, but why don't you love the cows of your country? As it... It is also living entity. They are also born in this country. Have they not right to live? Oh, you know in argument, in logic, you will accept, "Yes." But because we do not love Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is partiality, that one section of the living entities should be loved, and the another section of the living entities should be sent to the slaughterhouse. Why this defect? This defect is due to your lack of loving affairs with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you try to love Kṛṣṇa, then you will see, "Oh, the cows are my brothers, oh, the black people are my brothers, the white people are my brothers, the ants are my brothers, the dogs are my brothers, the trees are my brother, everyone my brother." That is universal brotherhood. If you simply talk of universal brotherhood, and you do not love Kṛṣṇa, hah, then it is useless. (laughter) It is useless. Therefore, actually it is happening. They are proclaiming peace and prosperity, and they are fighting in the United Nations. But where is the peace? Then where is the prosperity? Because lacking love of Kṛṣṇa.

Therefore, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very urgent necessity for the human society. They should learn how to love Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be adjusted, very easily. It is not utopian theory; *it is practical. There are many instances, and those who are following, the students in, in our society, ask them how they love others, how they love everyone, because they are..., they are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. So govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Therefore our process is, try to love the original person. And as soon as you become an expert lover... You will find in, in our Back to Godhead there is a picture that a hunter, after being initiated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is loving even the ants. Those who have seen our Kṛṣṇa pictures. Have you got Back to Godhead here? You can show picture?

*The story is, the hunter, a hunter was killing in the forest many animals, because hunter's business is to kill. So, I am speaking very shortly. The story and the picture you will find in Back to Godhead recently published. And Nārada, because he is Vaiṣṇava, he is lover of Kṛṣṇa, when he was passing on the path in the forest, he saw that many half*-dead animals are in torture, flapping. So, he was very kind. "Oh, who has done this mischief, these poor animals?" So he searched out the hunter, and he went there. The hunter asked me, "Oh, why you are disturbing my business?" So Nārada said, "My dear hunter, I have come to beg something from you." So hunter thought that "This mendicant is a beggar, so he might have come to me to beg some skins, or deer skin or tiger skin." So he said, "All right, please, let me do my business. I shall give you skins, whatever you like." Nārada said, "No, no, I don't want anything from you. I have come to request you something." "What is that?" "How, if you are killing animals, why don't you kill them all at once? Why you are killing them half, and giving them so much torture?" "Oh," he said that "I have been educated in that way. I have been trained in that way killing of animals by my father. I take pleasure in it." So Nārada said, "So my request to you is that if you want to kill animals, please kill them immediately. Don't kill half. This is very great sinful." Then he inquired, "What is the sin?" He said that "You are killing so many animals, so you are accumulating sins." Then he explained everything, so he became little softened, and he inquired that "How to get out of these sinful activities?" That Nārada said that "If you follow my instruction, then you can get free from these sinful activities." "Now, what I will have to do?" He said that "First of all break your bow, then I shall tell you." "Oh, if I break my bow, then my business instrument is gone." "No, don't be afraid." "Then how shall I eat?" "Oh, I shall send you food." So then he agreed: "If you solve my food problem, then I will follow you." So Nārada said, "Yes, I shall send you all kinds of food. You give up this business, and come with me." So the hunter and his wife went with Nārada, and Nārada fixed them a place on the bank of the Ganges at Prayāga, and he said that "You sit down here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I shall send you all food that you require." "All right sir. Don't forget (laughter), because I have given up my business." (laughter)

*So next day it was advertised in the village that the hunter has become a Vaiṣṇava, a bare*-headed boy (laughter), Vaiṣṇava. (laughter) So, in the, in India it is the system that if anyone goes to a temple or to a saintly person, the ladies especially, and they take some grains in hand, at least one palmful, and contributes. So, ten, twenty, fifty people are coming, and it becomes sufficient for the temple-keepers. That is the system in India still. Still there are many hundreds and thousands of temples in India, and India is advertised as poverty-stricken, but all these temples are being maintain..., maintained by the people from the morsel of their food, still. They contribute. If a sannyāsī goes to the house of a householder, he will never be refused. At least he should be given a little rice, little flour. That is the system. So, so many people are coming to see them, how they have become Vaiṣṇava, saintly person, and contributing, somebody flour, somebody dahl, somebody rice, somebody fruit. "Oh," they thought. "Oh, why Nārada is sending so much? We are only two persons, husband and wife, and he is sending more than twenty person foodstuffs, daily." So, he was convinced that "If I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, I will not starve. Nārada will send everything, that's all."

So, gradually by chanting they became very highly advanced spiritually. So one day Nārada said to his friend Parvata, "My dear Parvata, I have got a disciple in Prayāga. He was hunter, and I have initiated him to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let us go and see how he is doing." So, two friends are coming there, and it is the system that the disciple, by seeing the spiritual master, should immediately offer obeisances and receive him very nicely. So when he was going to receive from distant place Nārada, he saw some ants were on the feet, and he was trying to remove them so that they may not die, pressure of his foot... (break)

*Prabhupāda: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Devotees: (singing) govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



Devotees: Jaya. (end)





710731BS.NY

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Verse 35

-

New York, July 31, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.



*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac*-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.35]



*Eko 'py asau, that Govinda by His one expansion of plenary portion, eko 'py asau, that expansion is meant for creating this material world. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi. Not one universe, but billions of universes. As you see within this universe, there are millions and trillions of planets. Similarly, there are millions and trillions of universes. Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. So in each universe, Govinda enters, then it becomes developed. Just like the matter created by the male and female, the jīva soul enters and then the body develops. Similarly, this material... Matter has no power of developing. Govinda enters into the matter, and therefore the universe develops. It is very easy to understand. Simply matter, combination of matter, cannot produce any development. Govinda. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi koṭiṣ... Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham, so Govinda is, the atomic theory that combination of atom, paramāṇu vāda is this material world, but we say that within the atom there is Govinda. Aṇor aṇīyan mahato mahīyān. Govinda is greater than the greatest and smaller than the smallest. That is Govinda. Aṇḍānta...



*We cannot imagine, we cannot see even atoms with your naked eyes. Unless six atoms combine together, you cannot see. One atom we cannot see. Paramāṇu, aṇu paramāṇu. If six paramāṇu combines in, one becomes atom. There are so minute divisions. So, aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.35]. So we worship... Brahmā says tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. I am worshiping that Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we are disciplic succession from Brahmā. Therefore our process is to follow the footsteps of ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, for making progress in knowledge, one has to worship ācārya, ācāryopāsanam. So by paramparā system we follow. How Govinda enters, that doesn't matter. We do not bother about that thing. That is not our business. How Govinda enters in the atom, that is not our business. Our ācārya says, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham, He enters. We accept, that's all. Our business is finished. This is Vedic way of understanding. We take knowledge from the authority and do not bother unnecessarily speculating. We don't waste our time in that way. Our time is very valuable. Instead of researching how Govinda enters in the atom, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, utilize that time. So this line is very nice. Every knowledge is perfect there from the disciplic succession. You take it and be advanced, that's all. We don't bother much.

*Just like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. You know, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was a great scholar, and Māyāvādī scholar, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him surrender unto Him. He became Caitanya Mahāprabhu's admirer, follower after being defeated in Vedānta-sūtra, understanding. That story is there in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became convinced that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. He wrote hundred verses about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, out of two verses are available in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. He composed-he was a very learned scholar*-he composed one hundred verses about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and handed it over. But in all those verses he admitted that "You are Kṛṣṇa." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, of course He was very much pleased that Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya understood, but because He was playing the part of an ācārya, He, externally He became, "What you have written all these things?" He immediately torn out and throw it away. But the devotees saved only two. That two verses are there.

*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī (kṛṣṇa) caitanya mahāprabhu (śarīra*-dhāri)

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*You'll find that verse that "You are the same Śrī Kṛṣṇa, you have come to teach us vairāgya*-vidyā." Vairāgya-vidyā means how to become unattached with this material world. That is called vairāgya-vidyā. Because our, we are accepting different types of body on account of our attachment. Because we are attached to this material world... We want to enjoy. That is illusion. We cannot enjoy, we are simply suffering, but we are accepting it as enjoyment.



*Just like these karmīs. It is very distinctly visible wherever you go, so many congested work (?). All buses and cars are running, so many luggages being loaded in the street. Bharam udvahato. Great humbug, you see, great humbug. Prahlāda Mahārāja said māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43], actually they are taking so much trouble for loading these big, big cases, but because they're getting, say $40.00 a day, they say, think, "I am enjoying. I am enjoying." Actually he's working so hard, just like ass or hogs, day and night, but because getting some money and with that money because he is gratifying his senses, he thinks "I am happy." This is illusion. Illusion. He does not know what is real happiness for a second. The illusory material world happiness means sex life, that's all. How long does it stay? Say for minutes. But they're working so hard. This is called illusion. Actually he is being killed, but he thinks that "I am enjoying." This is illusion. Opposite.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja was very much sympathetic that "I am simply anxious for these rascals who have created a humbug civilization for temporary happiness," māyā*-sukhāya. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. They have created ugra karma. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra karma. Huge factory, day and night melting iron, and they are working, working. The special technologies, getting some money, they're happy. They do not know how they're wasting their valuable life. This is called māyā. Why so much work? Why you are working so hard? Do you think if you'll get hundred dollars per day you can eat more capātīs than myself? (laughter). Rascal does not know that he will eat the same number of capātīs, four or five or six, but he'll work so hard. So we are the best intelligent class. We don't work, but we get our capātīs. (laughter) Let the rascal work, but we get our capātīs. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhan [SB 7.9.43].

So people sometimes envy us. Gargamuni was telling in Los Angeles that this, some dealers, neighboring dealers, they were asking, "How you get money? You are living in such a nice place and you are eating so nice. Where you get money?" They are envious. So I told Gargamuni that why don't you ask them to come and join? You also eat and dance. Why you are working so hard? That will, they'll not do. This is māyā. This is māyā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "The whole country or the city, whole men, let them in, let them come here. I shall provide them with food." But they will not do.

*So māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is recommending that happiness, material happiness also, is due to pious activities. Unless you are pious, you cannot be happy, even materially. And if you simply commit sins, Rūpa Gosvāmī has analyzed-you will read in the Nectar of Devotion*-that distress is due to ignorance, simply ignorance. The distress and happiness... Actually you can see those who are not educated fairly, they cannot get any good job. Therefore it is, his distress is due to less, poor fund of knowledge. So actually our distress is due to ignorance and in ignorance only, we commit sinful activities. Therefore our topics began that, prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. We are trying to remove the ignorance of the people, therefore we are giving the best service to the human society. We are simply trying to remove the ignorance. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], we are trying to polish or cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. As soon as the heart is cleansed, the heart that... Now I am indifferently conscious. I am thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," or "I am this," "I am that." "I have to work, I have got business." So many you have created. But, our process is, our process is to cleanse the heart. That you are nothing of this, you are simply eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. You engage yourself as eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa and become happy. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Because we are ignorant of our constitutional position we have created all these problems.

Actually there is no problem. Exactly the same example, just like at night in dream we create so many problems, but actually there is no problem. But dreaming, that I am in such and such position, I am being harassed, somebody is taking my money, somebody is pinching me, so many things. I am in the front of tiger, there is ghost, there is so many things. So these problems, actually there is no problem, but by dreaming he is creating, mental. Asaṅgo hy ayaṁ puruṣaḥ, Veda says that this puruṣa, the ātmā, the soul has no connection with all these things. So we have created, by material concoction, so many problems. So the whole process is how to cleanse this dreaming condition of life.

*That is possible. First of all Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommended that, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena da... [SB 6.1.13], gradually you have to go. Generally this is the process. First process is those who are grossly ignorant: for them atonement. You have done this mistake, all right you atone for this. But they'll commit again. Therefore the next stage, the karmīs, karmīs are grossly ignorant, unnecessarily working so hard. Karmīs, to get some material result out of it. They are called karmīs. And next prāyaścitta vimarsanam, those who are a little advanced in knowledge, they think that I am making atonement, again committing the same thing. I am getting medicine from the physician, again I am being infected by the same disease. How long this business will go on? When one comes to the discussion within himself, then he's little farther advanced than this, these rascal karmīs. And above them, those who are bhaktas. Karmī, jñānī, bhakta. Yogi comes to the jñānī platform. Karmī, jñānī, yogi and bhakta. So a bhakta can be peaceful, others cannot. The karmīs cannot be peaceful, the jñānīs cannot be peaceful, the yogis cannot be peaceful, only the bhaktas, they can be peaceful. Why? Because everyone except the bhakta, śuddha*-bhakta, pure, has desire.

*A śuddha*-bhakta has no desire. They are simply happy by serving Kṛṣṇa. They do not want to know Kṛṣṇa even, whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not, they don't bother. They want to love Kṛṣṇa, that's all, whatever Kṛṣṇa may be. Not that because Kṛṣṇa is omnipotent, God, all-pervasive, Nārāyaṇa. No, no. In Vṛndāvana they did not know, the cowherds boy, the gopīs, they did not know whether Kṛṣṇa is God or something else, but they were too much inclined to love Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That was their position. They were not Vedantists, they are not yogis, they are not karmīs, village girls, boys. They wanted to see Kṛṣṇa happy, that's all. That is their position. This is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

*Yogis, jñānīs, they are trying to understand God, but they do not know they are in illusion. They're in illusion. So far karmīs are concerned, they're in illusion, māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. They're fools and rascals because for illusory happiness for a moment, they are working so hard. Therefore, they are rascal number one. They cannot, how they can have peace? There is no question. And next the jñānīs. Jñānīs, they want to get relief from this hard work of this material world. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā, they reject this material world. Mithyā, false. We have no, nothing to (indistinct). That is little higher than the karmīs, because the karmīs, they have taken this material world as everything. Here we shall be happy. Their dharma means: how we shall live peacefully here in this material world. Their religion means. I've talked with so many, their religion means to make a peaceful atmosphere within this material world. But the rascals do not know that it has been tried for millions of years for making this world peaceful. It has never happened. And never it will happen. How it will happen?

*This place is meant for giving you troubles and miseries. Kṛṣṇa says, the Creator says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15], this is a place simply for suffering and that also temporary. You cannot make an agreement, "All right, let me suffer the three*-fold miseries, I will stay here." That also will not be allowed. You cannot stay. You cannot stay. You will be kicked out. You make your good bank balance, skyscraper house, and wife, children, cigarette, wine, liquor, I am living very peaceful. That's all right, but one day comes, please get out. (laughter) "Why? It is my house, I have got bank balance, I have got everything, I have got factory, why shall I get out?" "Yes, you get out. Don't talk, get out." (laughter) That day he sees God. "I did not believe in God, now here is God, making everything finished." Everything finished. Sarva-haraś cāham, Kṛṣṇa says, that "I am God for the demons when I take away everything from them at the time of death." "You do not believe God, all right, here I am. Today I am here. I have come to you to take away everything, whatever you have got. Now get out!" They will see God on that day.

*So why not see God, here, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. Why you want to see God...? Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Prahlāda's seeing God, and Hiraṇyakaśipu is seeing God by death. And Prahlāda is seeing God, "Oh, here is my Lord." So those who are challenging that whether you can show me God, they will see God, like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Everyone will see God, but one who is sane, one who knows that I am eternally related with Kṛṣṇa, God, He loves me, my duty is to love. He is so much kind, that even I do not, even though I do not love Him, still He gives me food. He gives me fruits, flowers, grains, whatever I want, God is supplying. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. You cannot manufacture. So Kṛṣṇa, God is so kind, that He is supplying food to the atheist also. But the atheist has no knowledge that where from I am getting my foodstuff. That is ignorance. So therefore they are committing so many sinful activities. It is due to ignorance, nothing but ignorance. Atheist means in gross ignorance, that's all. Otherwise any person who is honest, he can see God everywhere, always.

*Just like Kṛṣṇa says, try to understand Me, try to under... Try to see Me everywhere. How? Now, first of all He says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, I am the taste of the water. So when you are thirsty, you require a glass of water, drink it, and when you feel happy you understand that this quenching power of this water is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa realization. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi*-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. So as soon as there is sunrise, you see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says "I am the sunshine, I am the moonshine." So why don't you try to see Kṛṣṇa? In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, there is a big list. Just like Kṛṣṇa says "I am the Lion amongst the animals." Because He took the shape of a lion, Hiraṇyakaśipu, eternal shape. I am the banyan Tree, so many thing. Kṛṣṇa has described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So in the beginning, if one is not fortunate enough to see Kṛṣṇa, although He is sitting in this temple, let him see Kṛṣṇa in this way. If he's not fortunate to come here and to see Kṛṣṇa, take prasādam, and dance in ecstasy, then let his unfortunate condition be diminished by seeing Kṛṣṇa in water, in sunshine, in moonshine, in this and that.

*Kṛṣṇa is visible, but Kṛṣṇa is visible to the devotees. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25], I am not exposed to everyone, yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ, covered by the curtain of yoga-māyā. But those who have developed love of Kṛṣṇa, for them, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. One who has developed love of Kṛṣṇa, he can see Kṛṣṇa within his heart twenty-four hours. So it is very nice proposition, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Please take to it. We are canvassing. We are sending our devotees to the street, begging, "Please come to our temple, be Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is our business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted it. Go door to door, even at the risk of life, and ask these rascals to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Māyā-sukhāya, because they're, they're thinking, "Oh, we are very happy." Illusion. The happiness will be finished within a second. As soon as death will come, finished. But one can say that "Death will come to you also." "Yes, that's all right." "Then why do you distinguish my death and your death?" "Yes, because you do not know where you are going, but I know where I am going, that is the difference." How do you know? Kṛṣṇa says. What does He say? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti. One who has understood Kṛṣṇa, one has served Kṛṣṇa sincerely and seriously, he is not going to come again to take any material body. Then where does he go? Oh, mām eti, he comes to Me.

*So how you can go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have got a body like Kṛṣṇa? Yes, that is the position. Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], īśvara (indistinct). Just like you cannot enter into fire without being fire. Similarly, next life for the devotees is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, eternal body, blissful life, dancing with Kṛṣṇa in rasa dance. You have seen the picture. Like the gopīs, like the cowherd boys. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that these boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ, for many millions of years they simply accumulated pious results of their activities. The Bhagavad-gītā also says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam, one he, one who is simply free from all reaction of sinful life, yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpam. How it is possible? Janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Those who are simply engaged in pious activities, the sinful activity cannot touch them. That is natural. If you are engaged in some type of activities, you are not engaged in other activities, you cannot do. Similarly, if you simply engage yourself in pious activities, the reaction of sinful activities cannot touch you. Yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām te, such persons, dvandva-moha-nirmuktā, they're released from the duality, bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So you are engaged in that business. There is no scope of sinful reaction in your life, provided you follow the four principles. No intoxication, no meat eating, no illicit sex, no gambling. These four items and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, sixteen rounds. Is it very difficult? And here is Kṛṣṇa's certificate. So do it, rigidly, and be happy. Thank you very much. (devotees pay obeisances)

Devotee: We've got a great desire to distribute Back to Godhead magazines. We've got such a great desire. We want to distribute a lot of Back to Godheads more and more Back to Godheads.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Devotee: We wonder, perhaps you could advise us.



*Prabhupāda: So, so what do you want? That desire is nice, that's all. Either you distribute or not distribute, keep that desire, that's all. (laughter) (sound of package being opened) What is this, coconut? Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ. (end)





681109BS.LA

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Lecture

-

Los Angeles, November 9, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Govindam, Lord Kṛṣṇa, ādi-puruṣa, the original person. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that Brahman... athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is Brahman? In this human form of life this is the business, to understand what is Brahman. Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām.



śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

*apaśyatām ātma*-tattvaṁ

*gṛheṣu gṛha*-medhinām

[SB 2.1.2]



*Question and answer. Everywhere life means questions and answers. So those who are not interested or do not know what is the aim of life, they have got questions and answers only for sense gratification. That's all. They have no more any questions or answers. Whole field of questioning and answering is sense gratification. That's all. But the human life is not meant for that purpose. Animals, they are... Morning... Just like birds, just early in the morning, they began to chirp, "Where is food? Where is...? Where we have to go? Where we have to find out some food?" That is their business. The animals also. But human form of life, does it mean it is meant like that, that they should simply be involved in questions and answers for sense gratification? No. Therefore Vedānta*-sūtra says, brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, atha: "After this, after the evolutionary process of lower than human being, when we have come, we have got this body, human form of body, the business is brahma-jijñāsā," jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is the Bhāgavata. But there is no education. There are so many universities, they are going on simply how to advance the method of sense gratification. That's all. There is no education. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human form of life should be specially engaged for understanding what is Brahman. Otherwise it is simply spoiled.



*Śaṅkarācārya says... He was a sannyāsī. Sannyāsīs's business is to travel all over the world, or as far as he can, and enlighten people about Brahman. That is sannyāsīs' business. So Śaṅkarācārya is lamenting, bālasya tāvad kriyā-saktaḥ: "Oh, what I see? I see the boys are engaged in playing." Bālasya tāvad kriyāsaktas taruṇas tāvad taruṇī-raktaḥ: "Young boys, they are after young girls. That is their business. Boys are playing. Young boys are after young girls." And vṛddhas tāvad cinta-magnaḥ: "And those who are old, they are absorbed in thought, 'Oh, what I have done? I could not do this. I have...' " Vṛddhas tāvad cinta-magnaḥ, taruṇī, parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ: "Nobody is interested with the Paraṁbrahman. Oh, what nonsense society it is." He analyzed the whole population-boys, youths, old men*-and he saw nobody is, no rascal is interested with Brahman. So that is the position. But it is meant for Brahma-jijñāsā. This is the defect of material civilization. The human form of life is being spoiled, simply spoiled. And they are... Māyā is dictating, "Oh, you are making so much advancement. Thank you." What advancement you have made, sir? Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Your problem is birth, death, old age and disease. What you have made for these four problems? What solution you have got? Your scientific advancement? Is there any solution of controlling birth? They have invented so many contraceptive methods. Still, in every minute, there is three human increasing. Where is your birth control? You cannot control. So birth... Similarly, death. So many medicines, so many scientific research, this thing, that thing, they have invented. And what you have done? You have stopped death? "No, sir." Then? Birth, death, old age. What your scientific advancement of knowledge has done to stop old age? Everyone is trying to keep his youth by cosmetic, pomade, lipstick, but nature will not allow him. It is becoming flappy. (laughter) You see? One Marwari gentleman, he, in Calcutta, he spent eighty lakhs of rupees, or eighty-thousand, for changing his gland into monkey gland for increasing his sex life. These things are going on. The monkeys, they have got very good sex life. One monkey has got at least thirty wives, and anywhere, he is very enjoying sex life. Markaṭa. So the science has discovered the monkey's gland is very strong for sex life. So kill them, you take out the gland and insert into man's... This is going on in medical science. So old age. They are doing... Science means they are trying to counteract the incapability, incapabilities of old age, but they are still failure. There are so many old men dying.

So janma, mṛtyu, jarā, and vyādhi, and disease. You are counteracting one disease; *another disease is coming out. They complain that "India is poor. There are so many diseases," but here there are so many cancer. So you cannot stop this, the nature's way. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Your only business is to find out Brahman. That is your business. Nature has given you sufficient means to live very comfortably everywhere. If you get a piece of land and one cow, your whole economic question is solved. You haven't got to go fifty miles for working. There is no necessity. Wherever you are living, take little land and keep one cow. Your economic question is solved. So nature has given you all facilities.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍha ātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



Everything is being supplied by the order of Kṛṣṇa because prakṛti is working, nature is working... How it is working? Mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10]. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa carācaram. "Under My order," Kṛṣṇa says. Prakṛti, nature, is not working blindly. You see? It has got its master, Kṛṣṇa.



*So this life is meant for brahma*-jijñāsā, inquiring, "What is Brahman?" Instead of inquiring Brahman, they are trying to kill Brahman. "There is no soul. There is no Supersoul. It is nature automatically becoming this." These nonsense things are being pushed within the, this rubbish brain of the human society. They cannot explain. They cannot give right understanding. Still, they will say, "I am scientist. I am philosopher. I am this. I am that." But your business... What is your business? Now, direct people wrongly, to go to hell. So this is not life. Life is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "This human form of life is meant for inquiring Brahman." And if you engage yourself in this Brahman business, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, rest assured, Kṛṣṇa will take care of you. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: [Bg. 10.10] "I take care personally for their necessities of life." Ordinarily, Kṛṣṇa, or God, is taking care of everyone even if he's not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and those who are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what to speak of them? Special care by Kṛṣṇa. Rest assured. Engage yourself rigidly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be happy. That is our program.

Thank you. (end)



710728BS.NY

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Lecture

-

New York, July 28, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. We are worshiping the original person, ādi-puruṣam. Original person... As we are all persons, our origin is also a person. We should always understand this. Ādi-puruṣam. The same example. Unless my forefather was a person, how his son, his son, his son-I am the last*-we are persons? So the original father, the supreme father, or God, or Kṛṣṇa, must be a person, not imperson. We should always remember. Govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is recommending that either you go through this austerity process, brahmacarya, śama, dama, titikṣa dhana, satya, śauca, yama, niyama [Bg. 18.42], so many items... Either you go through this process to come to the platform of your spiritual understanding, or kecid, those who are fortunate, kecid kevalayā bhaktyā, the same result is open. Sometimes other people, the so-called yogis, jñānīs, karmīs, or followers of religious, ritualistic ceremonies, they think, "How it is possible that these Hare Kṛṣṇa people have become so quickly self-realized simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, without undergoing so many processes?" That is the gift of Lord Caitanya. Caitanya, Lord Caitanya seeing, or Lord Kṛṣṇa... Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa*-the same person. Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Person; *Lord Caitanya is the same Supreme Person, but He's teaching us how to approach the Supreme Person. Just like sometimes my disciple is massaging my body, I take his hand and show him: "Do like this." Actually I am not massaging, but I am teaching him. It is not that I am massaging him. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee, Lord Caitanya, He shows the way how to approach Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Lord Caitanya was worshiped by Rūpa Gosvāmī as the greatest munificent personality or incarnation because He was distributing kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, very easily, so that this system was acceptable even by a child. So easy*-by simply chanting and dancing. Here, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says kecid. Kecid means some fortunate person. It is not for all. For general people, one has to undergo the regular process of austerity, but one who knows, or one who is fortunate to have the mercy of Lord Caitanya and His disciplic succession, such person, kecid, someone...

*And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many thousands, hundreds of thousands men, manuṣyāṇām,... Especially it is said manuṣyāṇāṁ. Manuṣya means human being. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu. God realization is not meant for the animals or persons who are almost animals, or animals in the shape of human beings. Animals. At the present moment, in the shape of human beings, the population is animals, assembly of animals, because they do not know beyond the animal propensities. The animal propensities... The animal is busy all day. The bird or any beast, rising early in the morning, they are busy: "Where there is some food? Where there is some sex? How to defend?" Then, at night, "How to take shelter and sleep?" They have got their own arrangement. In the morning they know that "In that tree there are some fruits. Let us go there." So they fly. Āhāra: eating. As we go to office... In your, this New York City, thousands of people are coming from other islands by the ferry boat, waiting for the bus, going to the office. What is the purpose? The purpose is, "Where is food?" The birds are also going. You have made ferry boat and nice-so many not nice*-very nice. It is crowded always. But you have to come. For your bread, you have to go fifty miles, forty miles. But the birds are free to fly from tree to another tree without any bus, without any ferry boat.

*So the problem-eating, sleeping, mating-these problems are there amongst the living entities other than human being. Other than human being, they're many. If you take a census of the living entities in different categories, how many human beings are there in this city, how many sparrows are there, how many pigeons are there, how many dogs are there, how many trees are there, how many insects are there-they're all living entities-the number of other-than-human*-being will be far, far greater. The votes will be smaller in number. If the municipality, city, or the government said, "Everyone can vote, all living entities," then your vote will be lost, because you are very small in number. Other living entities, they are very great. Even from the holes of your room, many thousands of ants will come. They are also living entities. Why don't you, why do you say that they are not living entities? They are living en... They are also eating; you are also eating. They're also sleeping; you are also sleeping. They're also mating; you are also mating. They're also defending. The small ants, they are defending. They enter into the hole of your room. You do not know where the ants live, but they defend. You cannot capture them.

*So these policies*-eating, sleeping, mating and defending-they're in all living entities. That is the, mean, the general law for every living entity. So if you are simply engaged in this eating, sleeping, mating and defending, then what is the difference? That is the defect of modern civilization. If you think that "We have very scientifically running on, so many slaughterhouses, eating purposes," so that is not advancement of civilization. The, in that sense, a tiger is better situated. He hasn't got to keep a slaughterhouse. By nature, he has got nails and jaws: immediately attack and finish. So these things are not advancement of civilization. Real civilization is how to understand your relationship with God, the supreme father. That is real civilization. You may learn it through any process. It doesn't matter. You learn your relationship with the supreme father through this Christianity. That's all right. Or through Vedic process. That's all right. Or Muhammadan, Koran process, that's all right. But you learn it. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not that we are out to make Christians Hindus, or Hindus Christian, or Muhammadan... No. Our propaganda is not that. Our propaganda is that "You are human being. Your business is to understand your relationship with God." That's all. You learn it. Anywhere you learn it, but you learn it. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time by animal propensities.

So you are nobody's enemy; *you are everyone's friend, because you are showing the right way. Try to love Kṛṣṇa, or God. That's all. If you have got any own process, do it. Otherwise, please come to us. Learn it. Why one should grudge? Nīcād apy uttamāṁ strī*-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that you have to catch up the right thing from any source. It doesn't matter. He gives example: viṣād api amṛtaṁ grāhyam. If there is a pitcher of poison, but if there is some nectarine over the pitcher, you catch it, take it out. Don't take the poison, but take the nectarine. Amedhyād api kāñcana. If you find that in a filthy place there is some gold, take it out. You are not to take the filthy stool, but you take the gold. Nīcād apy uttamāṁ vidyām. Nīcā. According to Vedic system, education has to be taken from high class, intellectual person like the brāhmaṇas. But if you find that a person who is not a brāhmaṇa-he's less than a brāhmaṇa, or even lower caste-but if he has got some nice education, just accept him as your teacher and learn. Not that "Because he's lowborn or not brāhmaṇa, I shall not take the education from him." The point is that you have to take the education. And strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. In India still the marriage takes place in equal family. The boy and the girl must be equally rich, equally cultured, equally educated. Equality. They find out. Even by horoscope, they test whether their astronomical calculations are also equal, so that after marriage they may not be unhappy. So many things, they are taken care of by the parents, and the marriage takes place. It is not that in youthful age the boy and girl mixes and... No. There are so many. But these things are now gone. So the point is that they were calculating especially to accept a girl from a family, they must be equal. But Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that if a girl is well qualified, strī-ratna... Strī-ratna means... Ratna means jewel. If a girl is just like jewel, very qualified, even she is born in low family, accept her. Nīcād apy uttamāṁ vidyāṁ strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. Duṣkulād api means born of low family. Never mind. Don't care for her parentage. If she's qualified, accept her. There are many instances. Similarly, if you are serious about understanding God, don't consider that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "Why shall I go this? Why shall I hear from Swamijī?" If you are serious about understanding God, to love God, then here is the nicest process. That is practical. There is no question of grudging, "Oh, why shall I go there? They are following some Hindu, Vedic scripture." No. There is no question of Vedic scripture. We, our business is how to love God. That's all. Just like many students come here to take higher education. As there is no consideration that "Why shall I go to America or Germany? They are different people. Oh, I don't take higher education." No. Everyone goes. Similarly, if there is nice process to understand God, to approach God, you should take it. Don't be grudging. Take it. You'll be benefited. Kevalayā bhaktyā.

*So kecid. Not all. Someone who is intelligent, bhagavān, fortunate, they take to this process, kevalayā bhaktyā. Our process is kevalayā bhaktyā. Kevalayā means pure devotional service. No other adulteration or amalgamation. No. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is the program. From early morning at four o'clock til night, ten a.m., p.m., they are all engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is called kevalayā. They have no other business. So this process is recommended for all. That is the perfection of all religious process. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharma yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is first*-class religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharma. Paro means transcendental. There are two things: parā and aparā, superior and inferior, material and transcendental. There are material dharmas, religious process. For some material gain, generally, people go to church, go to temple, some material gain. Just like in your church you pray, "God, give us our daily bread." Your daily bread is a material gain. So these gain is already settled up. You'll get your bread. Just like the birds or beast, they are getting their bread without going to the church. They do not go to the church for asking God, "Give us our daily bread." The bread is there in the tree. They go and take as much bread as they like. Similarly, your bread is also settled up, either you go to the church or do not go to the church. That is not a problem. Nobody is dying on the street out of starvation. When you find somebody is lying dead on the footpath, the cause is some might have shot him down or by some other means he's killed. But you no, you'll not find either a bird or a beast or an ant or human being died of starvation. Never. The food is already there. Don't bother. If you have to bother, if you have to tax your brain, just do it for Kṛṣṇa, for God. That is proper utilization of your time. Bread is already there. There is no scarcity of bread in the kingdom of God. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. The Bhāgavata says one should try for that thing which is not available by traveling all over the universe. What is that? This is kevalayā bhaktyā, simple pure devotion. That is wanting. Nothing is scarcity. Everything is complete by the grace of God for everyone. Just like even in jail the government supplies sufficient food. But why people come into the jail? Because they are not honest. Dishonest, criminal. Food is outside jail, inside jail. But what is the difference outside and inside? Inside jail, the men are criminals. Outside jail, they are not criminals; they are lawful. Similarly there is spiritual world and material world, and everywhere God is providing food, either in the spiritual world or material world, for everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The Vedas says that one person, Supreme Person, is supplying food to this many living entities, bahūnām. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So for fulfillment of your material desires, you need not go to God. That is, that arrangement is already there.

But because we are foolish, we think... Not only think. Sometimes we are put into difficulty by the laws of nature, starvation. Just like if you eat more and then next two days you cannot eat; you have to starve. Similarly the difficulty in this material world is that we take more than what we need; *therefore we have created problems. Otherwise there is sufficient supply from God's side. There is no scarcity, no problem. We have created problems. Just like in your country sometimes I have heard that you throw away grains, thousands of tons of grains, in the water. That means you have enough food. But there are countries who are starving. So it could be adjusted by sending this food. Instead of throwing in the water, they could be sent to the starving countries. But people will not do that. The point is from God's arrangement, there is enough food within this planet. There is enough land, enough food*-producing prospect. But we have arranged in such a way that in one part the people are suffering, and one part, they are throwing the grains in the water. This is not God's arrangement. This is our arrangement. Therefore the problems are created by men. Now the so-called politician, they create problems. Otherwise, by nature's ways, by God's way, everything is complete.

pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate

[Iso Invocation]



This is Vedic song. God is complete. His creation is complete. His arrangement is complete. Simply we are creating disturbance. Therefore the real education to stop this disturbance is to make people Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious. Then all problems will be solved. Otherwise, by passing resolution in the United Nations it is not possible.



*You do not know how to solve the problems. That is being discussed. Here Śukadeva Gosvāmī, in right place, he says kevalayā bhaktyā. Simply by pure devotional service, kevalayā, only. Kecid kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ. And who can do, kecid, that kecid, that person, who is that person? That is not ordinary person. That is vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, one who is devotee to Lord Kṛṣṇa. Vasudeva means Kṛṣṇa. Vasudeva, not others, not demigod parāyaṇāḥ. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. Demigod parāyaṇāḥ, it cannot do that. Therefore it is particularly mentioned, vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ: whose business is only to satisfy Lord Vasudeva, or Kṛṣṇa. Such person. They can solve all the problems simply by taking to pure unalloyed devotional service. Kevalayā bhaktyā. Aghaṁ dhunvanti. We create trouble for our sinful activities. Just like I have already explained: there is enough food, but I gather more food, I stock it to make business so that when there is less supply the price will increase, and I shall sell at that time. This is my process. This is going on as economic development. There is grain. By God's arrangement, sufficient grain. But I am a man. I have got some influence. I have got some money, and I go to the bank: "Sir, I want to purchase one hundred thousand, millions of dollars' worth of wheat. So I have got ten thousand dollars. Please give me loan." Bank gives him loan. He purchases. He stocks it somewhere. Nobody knows. The price is increased. There is scarcity. Actually there is no scarcity, but it is the so-called economic law, man-made law, that creates scarcity. From God's side, there is no scarcity. Sufficient supply-more than what you need. But how this man can be checked from this evil propensity, to gather money and stock unnecessarily? In India, in 1942, they created artificial famine by this process. Big men, they collected rice. The rice was selling at six rupees per mound. All of a sudden, within a week, it came to fifty rupees per mound. I have seen it. No rice was available in the market. People were hungry. They were purchasing. But the beauty is one American gentleman was present at that time. He remarked that "People are starving in this way. In our country, there would have been revolution." Yes. But the people of India are so trained that in spite of creating this artificial famine, they did not commit any theft, stealing others' property. They died peacefully. Of course, this is a single instance. But the thing is that problems are not created by God. They are created by us. Just like in the... One, my German Godbrother, he said that during the First World War... Perhaps some of you know. The politicians created war and there was war. So people went to church. People means all women, because men were all in the active field. So they prayed, "My brother may come back. My husband may come back. My son may come back." But nobody came back, and they all became atheists: "Oh, there is no God." But the thing is that God does not say that "You create war, create problem and for solution of the problem you come to Me." No, you have created your problems; you have to take the result.

*But still, one who takes to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, or God, his problem are solved. That's a fact. Here it is stated, kecid kevalayā bhaktyā. Somebody. Who? Vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ. Those who are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vasudeva means Kṛṣṇa. Nārāyaṇa parāyaṇa, vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, these words are there in the Vedic language. In another place you'll find,

vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayati āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*If you apply your devotional service to Vasudeva, vāsudeve bhagavati... Vasudeva is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavati. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti*-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ [SB 1.2.7]. If you apply, if you engage yourself in devotional service to Vasudeva, then the result will be janayaty āśu. Āśu means very soon, without delay; *janayaty, generated. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Vairāgyam means knowledge by which one becomes detached from this material allurement. That is called vairāgya. Simply by employing yourself in devotional service you get the highest knowledge. That is vairāgya. Without vairāgyam... Jñānaṁ ca. Jñāna and vairāgya. Jñāna means knowledge, and vairāgya means detachment. This is required in this human form of life. As soon as you get right knowledge, that "I am spirit soul. I am not anything of this material world. Somehow or other I have been in contact with this material world, and because I have desired to enjoy this material world in different capacities, therefore I am transmigrating from one type of body to another type, and I do now know since when this system began. But is still going on," this is called knowledge. To understand one's constitutional position and how he's suffering in this material world, that is called knowledge. Now that perfection of knowledge comes when one becomes vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ.



*Therefore in Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births, sufferings and cultivation of knowledge, when one comes to the right point, at that time he becomes vāsudeva parāyaṇāḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. One who understands "Vasudeva is everything; *He is the cause of everything," sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, that kind of mahātmā... You were asking yesterday about some mahātmā's instruction. But we are talking of this mahātmā who is vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. He is perfect mahātmā. So the mahātmā, as it is said... It is kevalayā bhaktyā, kecid kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. Similarly, vāsudeva parāyaṇāḥ means vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. One who has known perfectly well that Kṛṣṇa, Vasudeva, is the source of everything, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, such kind of mahātmā is very rare. You can find out so-called mahātmās with great beard, mustaches and... But that is different mahātmā. That is not mahātmā. They are sometimes durātmā, because they want to encroach on the rightful position of Kṛṣṇa. They want to become one with Kṛṣṇa. Suppose if there is servant in your office, and if he tries to occupy your seat, would you like him, if you understand that your, "This servant is trying to occupy my seat"? Similarly, any living entity who is trying to become God, he's not very much liked by God. He cannot become God, but this very endeavor, to become God, to become a competitor of God, is not very much liked. That person is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā as dviṣataḥ, envious. Tān aham dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andhā yoniṣu [Bg. 16.19]. Such persons, envious persons, are put into the hellish condition of life. They are envious of God's position. They want to occupy high position in this material world, and when they are frustrated, they think "Now I shall occupy the position of God." But that will be also frustrated. Nobody can become God. God is God, and living entity's living entity. He's supreme, He's infinite; *we are infinitesimal. Our position is to serve God. That is our perfect position. That will make us happy. Not otherwise. Not by imitating how to become God. That is impossible. How you can become God? Yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. There are innumerable universes, and within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu so many universes are coming out by exhaling. And when He inhales, so many universes are dissolved within His body. So how we can become God? God is not so cheap.

*Therefore sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ, on who is actually advanced in knowledge, mahātmā, who has accepted Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, as the Supreme... Here it is also said that kecid kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, aghaṁ dhunvanti. They exterminate all kinds of resultant reaction of sinful activity. Aghaṁ dhunvanti. How it is? Now Kṛṣṇa, Vasudeva, personally says also that "You surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "You give up everything, all other occupation. You simply surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo. So this aghaṁ dhunvanti, He destroys all kinds of resultant activities of sinful life. Not he does; *it is done by Kṛṣṇa. He says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo: "I'll help you. I will release you from all kinds of reaction. You simply surrender." Therefore vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ, one who is devotee, and simply engaged in devotional service, aghaṁ dhunvanti, immediately He causes disappearance of all sinful action. How? The example is given: aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena, wholesale, immediately. How? Nihārām iva bhāskaraḥ. Just like fog is immediately, I mean to say, moved, simply by sunrise. Sunrise. Just like this is night, darkness. In the morning, as soon as there will be sunrise, there will be no more darkness. Immediately all thousands and millions of miles of darkness immediately moved. So try to make Kṛṣṇa sūrya, the sun, Kṛṣṇa, rise in your heart, and everything will be solved.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Devotee: May I ask a question? When you were speaking, you started to ask..., you started to check all the people who are hoarding those grains, that economic procedure to produce famine. What is the way to check them? Is to keep them...?



Prabhupāda: To make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. If he knows that "These grains belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Why I am throwing it? There are so many living entities. They are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Let me distribute," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he is thinking, "It is mine. These grains are mine. I am the proprietor." This is due to lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If he knows that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, then he'll not misuse it. What is your question?



Devotee: If I have got a lot of foodstuffs, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I wish to distribute, but I'm afraid it will go bad, how could I distribute very quickly, very quickly? I want to distribute it all. I've gotten a lot of foodstuffs. I want to give it up. Can I offer...



Prabhupāda: You don't find? You don't find men to distribute...



Devotee: Sometimes I get crates of lettuce. Could I offer a whole crate at once, and give a crate away to another Salvation Army, that they can give it away?



Prabhupāda: That is all right. Some way or other it should be distributed. It should not be wasted. Yes?



Guest: How do you feel about... Rabindranath Tagore?



Prabhupāda: Hmmh?



Guest: How do you feel about Rabindranath Tagore, the Indian poet, writer?



Prabhupāda: I don't follow.



Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you feel about Rabindranath Tagore, the poet?



*Prabhupāda: (laughs) So you want my right answer? The answer is that anyone who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has no good qualification. Or he's a fool, in simple word. So we have to test whether one has got Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. If one has no God consciousness, then according to Bhāgavata: harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they cannot have any good qualification. Why? Manorathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. Because they are, they have no God consciousness means they do not know what is God; therefore their consciousness is either on the bodily platform or mental platform or intellectual platform. God consciousness is on the spiritual platform. So those who are in the bodily platform, they're trying to satisfy the senses. And those who are on the mental platform, they're writing poetries and philosophical speculation to satisfy the mind. Similarly, there is intellectual platform. But soul is above intellect.



indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

buddhes tu ya saḥ eva paraḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



*In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that first of all you have got bodily conception: "I am this body." Generally people are in bodily concept of life. Therefore body means the senses. They want to satisfy the senses. And then mental platform, they are satisfying the mind by philosophical speculation or some poetry. So Rabindra..., Rabindranath Tagore, he belongs to the mental platform. So one has to transcend the bodily platform, mental platform, intellectual platform and come to the simple spiritual platform. That is kevalayā. Kevalayā means simply, without any adulteration of bodily, mental and intellectual activities. That is pure devotional service. So Rabindranath Tagore belonged to the mental platform*-a little bit higher than persons who are on the bodily platform. But perfection of life comes when one comes to the spiritual platform. That we are giving directly, Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. That is the difference between Rabindranath Tagore and our activities.



Thank you. (end)



730103BS.BOM

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Lecture

-

Bombay, January 3, 1973



*(devotees chant Brahma*-saṁhitā verses)

*Devotees: ...govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. So Govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. These verses, Brahma-saṁhitā, it was composed by Lord Brahmā. Therefore in the Vedic literature, this, this is called Saṁhitā. Saṁhitā means part of the Vedic literature. So Lord Brahmā is describing about Kṛṣṇa. There are some foolish question that "Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago. How He became God?" Actually that is not the fact. In the Brahma-saṁhitā, Brahmā is describing means from the very creation. Brahmā is the first creature of this universe. So he has explained about Kṛṣṇa by his experience, by his realization.



*In the Vedānta*-sūtra, Kṛṣṇa is described, janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] the Supreme Person from whom everything has emanated. So that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Devānām means in the beginning there was Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. And Kṛṣṇa is ādi of these devas also. Aham ādir hi devānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo: "Everything has emanated from Me."

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitaḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*So Kṛṣṇa is the ādi*-puruṣa. In... Arjuna also confirms. After understanding Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna also confirms:



paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma

pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān

puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam

[Bg. 10.12]



*Ādyam: the original person. Just like in our genealogical table, in each family, there is a person who is the origin of the family*-then his son, his son, his grandsons, great-grandson. In this way, family expands. Similarly, this creation is from Kṛṣṇa. In the Catuh-ślokī Bhāgavata also, aham eva āsam agre: [SB 2.9.33/34/35/36] "I was present before the creation." Even Śaṅkarācārya, who is impersonalist, he also says, nārāyaṇaḥ paro avyaktād: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, He is beyond this material creation." Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktād. Avyaktād aṇḍa-sambhavaḥ. From the avyakta, nonmanifested material mahat-tattva, this material creation has been, become possible. Before the material creation, beyond the material creation, there is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Brahma-saṁhitā, Lord Brahmā is describing Kṛṣṇa in each verse: govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. He's the original person.



*Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti, asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. There is no more parā-tattva, superior source, except Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is therefore..., we are trying to place before the civilized human society that the ādi-puruṣa, the original Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are searching after God. There are so many societies-theological society, theosophical society*-they are searching after God. But here is God. Why don't you take reference from the Vedic literature? God's reference is there in the Vedic literatures, and God Himself appeared, and He explained Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. And God is accepted, not (only) now, even when Kṛṣṇa was present, five thousand years ago, all great sages, saintly persons, great ṛṣis, they also accepted. Nārada, Devala, Vyāsa. When Arjuna, in the Bhagavad-gītā... It is explained in the Tenth Chapter. You know, all, Kṛṣṇa as paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. He, he is addressing Kṛṣṇa as person, bhavān. This bhavān śabda, this word is used, "person," not imperson. Bhavān. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam [Bg. 10.12]. He's not imperson. Puruṣam. Puruṣam means person. Not female also. Puruṣam means male. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam. Śāśvatam, original; *ādyam, the first. So in this way. And Arjuna has also given reference that all the great sages... At that time, Vyāsadeva... Vyāsadeva is still present. So "Vyāsadeva accepts You, Nārada accepts You, and Asita, Devala, big, big, great sages accepts You. You are personally speaking, and I have realized that You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not manufactured, as nowadays it has become a fashion to manufacture God by votes. No. God is never manufactured. God is God. Not by mystic power one becomes God or by so*-called meditation or magical arts. No. God is God. Nobody can become God. Asamaurdhva. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is described as asama urdhva prapitāmaha ca [Bg. 11.39]. In the Eleventh Chapter, you'll find these words. Because Brahmā is considered... He's called pitāmaha, because the father of the father. If you search out the genealogical table of this universe, especially of the human society, then you go on searching. I am begotten by my father; *my father is begotten by his father, his father, his father, his father*-you go on. Then ultimately, if you have so much patience to make research, the, you can get from the śāstras, you can get. So the original father of this universe is Lord Brahmā; *therefore he is addressed as Pitāmaha. But the father of Brahmā also, Brahmā, is also there: Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. The Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is expansion of Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the original Viṣṇu, and Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is expansion of Saṅkarṣaṇa. Saṅkarṣaṇa is expansion of Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa is expansion of another Saṅkarṣaṇa, and that Saṅkarṣaṇa is expansion of Baladeva. And Baladeva is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in the śāstras. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the original person. Govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. It is not that some artist has manufactured a fashionable Kṛṣṇa, and we worship that. No. Kṛṣṇa's the original person. We find it, description, in the Saṁhitās, in the Vedas, in the Ṛg Veda: oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. And the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there it is explained: janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Because Vedānta-sūtra begins with this aphorism: janmādy asya yataḥ.

*So Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam is the original explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. So in the Vedānta-sūtra, explanation of Vedānta-sūtra, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said,

janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ

*tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ

[SB 1.1.1]



*These descriptions are there. So ādi*-kavi, ādi-kavi means Brahmā. Brahmā, Ādi-kavi. So tene brahma. Brahmā means śabda-brahman, Vedic literature. So He instructed or imparted in the heart of Brahmā. Because when the creation was there, Brahmā was the only person, living entity, in the beginning. So the question may be that "How Brahmā learned Vedic knowledge?" That is explained: tene brahma... Brahmā. Brahmā means Vedic literature. Śabda-brahman. The information, the description of God is also Brahman. Brahman is absolute. There is no difference between Brahman and the literature which is describing Brahman. The same thing: just like Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. Bhagavad-gītā is also Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why this book is worshiped since so, for so long time, since five thousand years, unless the Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa? There are so many literatures, books, are published nowadays. After one year, two years, three years-finished. Nobody cares for it. Nobody cares for it. Nobody reads for... Any literature you take in the history of the world, no literature can exist for five thousand years, repeatedly being read by many, many scholars, religionists and philosophers, all. Why? Because it is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa... There is no difference between Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavān. Śabda-brahman. So Bhagavad-gītā should not be taken as ordinary literature, that one can comment on it by so-called ABCD knowledge. No. That is not possible. The fools and rascals, they try to comment on the Bhagavad-gītā by their ABCD scholarship. That is not possible. It is śabda-brahman. It will be revealed to the person who has devotion to Kṛṣṇa. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve... These are the Vedic instructions.



yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]



They become revealed. Therefore Vedic literatures are called revealed. It is not that I can understand by your ABCD knowledge; *I can purchase one Bhagavad*-gītā, and because I have grammatical knowledge, I can understand. No. Vedeṣu durlabha. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, vedeṣu durlabha. You go on studying all Vedic literature by your literary capacity or scholarship-durlabha. It is not possible. Vedeṣu durlabha. Therefore there are so many persons, they are trying to interpret Bhagavad-gītā by their so-called scholarship, but nobody cares for them. They cannot turn even one person, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is a challenge. In your Bombay there are so many persons, they are explaining Bhagavad-gītā for so many years, but they could not turn even a single person a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is our challenge. But this Bhagavad-gītā, now it is being explained as it is, and thousands and thousands of Europeans and Americans, whose forefathers or family never knew the name of Kṛṣṇa, they are becoming devotees. This is the secret of success. But these foolish people, they do not know. They think that by interpreting Bhagavad-gītā by their so-called rascaldom knowledge, they can reveal Bhagavad-gītā. That is not possible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is not exposed to these foolish and rascals. Kṛṣṇa is never exposed. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya [Bg. 7.25]. He's not so cheap thing that He'll be understood by these fools and rascals. It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samā... [Bg. 7.25].



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*So if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then we have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Kṛṣṇa says. And Kṛṣṇa says, bhakto 'si priyo 'si rahasyam etad uttamam [Bg. 4.3]. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "This science of God, Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣṇa-tattva..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: yei kṛṣṇa-tattva vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Guru does not become. Guru is not so cheap thing. One must know what is kṛṣṇa-tattva. One must know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says also,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Nobody knows Kṛṣṇa. They may speculate by their so-called scholarship, ABCD knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not there. They cannot turn even a single man to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee. That is not possible. They can be fool. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The, one who is not devotee, he is described as a paśuḥ, as an animal. And such animal is eulogized, glorified, by another animal. What are they? Now, dogs, camels, asses and hogs. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. These description is there. Therefore if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, we have to follow these mahājana. Just like Brahmā. Brahmā is the original. There are... Who is mahājana? Mahājana. In India, a mahājana is accepted who can give you loan, money. He's called mahājana. Not that, that all. It is, it is a perverted word. But mahājana means a, one who is pure devotee of the Lord. Mahātmā means who is pure devotee of the Lord. Sādhu means who is a devotee*-not these street beggars. Sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ samyag vyavasito hi... [Bg. 9.30]. Who are they? Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ.



*api cet su*-durācāro

*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ...

[Bg. 9.30]



He's sādhu. Even if we find some discrepancies in the life of a devotee... Just like these European, Americans. They're devotees. They are pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. How? They have no other desire. They simply want to satisfy their spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are pure devotees. They have no other business. They have sacrificed everything. They are coming from rich family, rich nation, educated, everything. There is no scarcity in their country. Everything's complete. But still, for Kṛṣṇa they have forsaken everything. That is pure devotion.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanam bhaktir uttamām

[Brs. 1.1.11]



Those who are trying to catch up here something, catch up here something, they have been described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu as khara jati abata (?). Khara jati abata. The kha... One, one of the devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Mukunda, he was very, mean, confidential devotee. His class friend also, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. So he was going sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes here, sometimes there. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very angry upon him, and gave him the title khara jati abata. Khara jati abata: "Don't allow him to come here." He became so strict. So he was very sorry. "Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said not to come in His meeting." So he was asking other devotees that "I shall not be allowed?" So, "We can..., how we can allow you? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden." "So will you ask if there will be any time so that I can again come back?" So some devotee inquired from Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "Mukunda is very sorry. You asked not to come. But he's asking whether there will be any day in future when he'll be allowed to come again." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "After three thousands of births. After three thousands of births, he'll be allowed to come in." So when Mukunda inquired, "Did you inquire from Caitanya Mahāprabhu this question?" he said, "Yes, but He has said after your three thousands of repeated births, you'll be allowed." So he began to dance. He began to dance. "Oh, then I'll be allowed some day. Never mind, three thousand births. Never mind three thousand births." So when this, this, this was informed to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "He's dancing now because You have, You'll allow him to come in after three thousands of births," so Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very pleased and asked him to bring him immediately. (laughter)



*So if we want to actually learn this... Just like there must be eka niṣṭha. Bhajanti mām ananya*-bhāk. That is the qualification. [break] ...Kṛṣṇa. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, it is very easy. Don't divert your attention to anything. "No, I, I worship this demigod, I worship that demigod, I..." Then your knowledge is gone. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Anya-devatāḥ: "other demigods." Devatāḥ is Kṛṣṇa, but others, they're demigods.

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya

yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya

[Cc. Ādi 5.142]



God is one, Kṛṣṇa. Ekam evādvitīyam. All others, they are servants. This is our conclusion. This is śāstric conclusion. Eka brahma dvitīya... Brahman cannot be two. Param brahman. Paraṁ brahma paramaṁ bhavān. Therefore Arjuna has addressed Him as bhavān, "Yourself." Not that "You have got many competitors." Just like we are, we find nowadays, in one street another God; another God, in another street, another god; another street, or another city, there are so many Gods. No. God is one. Ekam eva advitīya. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].



*So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we want to learn about Kṛṣṇa, then we have to follow the path of mahājanas, great personalities. Just like Brahmā is presenting Brahma*-saṁhitā, describing; *Vyāsadeva is presenting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Bhagavān, Himself, is describing Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. So where is the difficulty to understand Bhagavad-gītā or Bhagavān? We don't find any difficulty. Where is the difficulty? The mahājana is there, the śāstra is there, the guru is there, the Veda is there. And why should we make research after God? What is this nonsense? Everything is there. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. The purpose of Vedas is to know Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about Brahman. Brahman. So there is no need of searching out God. You can simply try to digest whatever is already there. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. All the ācāryas, they have accepted. They have written commentation on Bhagavad-gītā with reference to the Vedic knowledge. The Absolute-kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam*-is accepted everywhere by all ācāryas. Why you are searching after God? I do not know. So this Bhagavad-gītā and this Brahma-saṁhitā, and the description is about Kṛṣṇa, and His abode:

*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*Advaita. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam. He has got ananta-rūpam. There is no limit. He has got so many. Because each, in each and every brahmāṇḍa, there is Kṛṣṇa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa avatāra... Just like in this brahmāṇḍa there was Kṛṣṇa avatāra in, five thousand years ago, similarly Kṛṣṇa avatāra is going on just like... The same example, as I have given you many times, that the sun, sun, sun planet is there in the sky, but sun is visible when he is in our front. Otherwise sun is there. Similarly Kṛṣṇa is always there, but when He descends, incarnates, He becomes visible to us, exactly like the sun. At the present moment, it is night. Sun is not visible. But in due course of time, say, after eight hours or ten hours, in the morning, the sun will be visible. Similarly there is scheduled time when Kṛṣṇa becomes visible on this planet, on this universe. And there are, there are innumerable universes. They..., therefore He's called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā means eternal pastimes. Kṛṣṇa is born as Yaśodā, Devakī-nandana. Immediately He begins to grow. But that birth is taking another planet, another universe. Just like six-thirty, sunshine... It is now visible on this planet, or on this city, but again six-thirty, again, in another city, six-thirty in another city, six-thirty another city. It is not very difficult to understand. That six-thirty's continuing. That seven-thirty's continuing. That eight-thirty's continuing. Every minute and second is continuing. Simply you have to know where it is. You immediately try to know by phoning the other city, other, on the other country, you'll know that this six-thirty, or seven-thirty or twelve-thirty or the set up or rising of the sun is continually going on, here or there. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's appearance, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, everything is continually going on: sometimes in this universe, sometimes in another universe, sometimes another universe. In this way it is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's līlā is called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā, eternal. It is not for the time when Kṛṣṇa appeared. That nitya-līlā, as we have seen within this planet, Kṛṣṇa, that will come again. Just like we saw the sun in the daytime. Now it is not visible, but in due course of time, again we shall see; *next morning we shall see sun. Similarly, we shall see again Kṛṣṇa, and that rotation takes place according to Vedic calculation after forty*-three crores of years. That is the explanation we get from Vedic śāstra.



*So Kṛṣṇa's līlā, it is not an invented, we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa as something imaginary, some artistic picture. No. It is nitya*-līlā. Kṛṣṇa is fact. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. He's ādi. Advaitam acyutam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam. Purāṇa-puruṣam. The oldest man. Purāṇa means oldest. Oldest, Purāṇa-puruṣam. Puruṣam means person. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. But whenever you'll see Kṛṣṇa, He's just a perfect young boy, nava-yauvanaṁ ca. You'll never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as He has become old, He has grown some big, big beard and... No. Kṛṣṇa, you'll never see. Kṛṣṇa is just like a twenty-years-old young boy. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. He is not to be found in the Vedas. There is, but we miss. In the Ṛg Veda, in the Atharva Veda, Kṛṣṇa is there. Vedeṣu durla... But the ordinary man cannot find. Just like the people, they're reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. There are so many people; *they are very proud of reading Bhagavad*-gītā daily, but they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. The only thing is, they're missing Kṛṣṇa. Except Kṛṣṇa, all rubbish thing they are talking. This is their vision. Because vedeṣu durlabha. For the rubbish person, rascal person, Kṛṣṇa is durlabha. Adurlabha ātma-bhaktau. But Kṛṣṇa is available, Kṛṣṇa has to be seen from the Kṛṣṇa's devotee. Not from others. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am again explaining to you this Bhagavad-gītā because bhakto 'si priyo 'si rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam [Bg. 4.3]. There is a very nice mystery in this Bhagavad-gītā, and that will be understood by you because you are My devotee. You are My very dear." So in order to understand Kṛṣṇa, one has to first of all become a great devotee, dear friend of Kṛṣṇa. Then he can understand. Otherwise, vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33].

*So this Brahma*-saṁhitā describes about Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā is mahājana. I've already told you: mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. So in the śāstras, twelve mahājanas are accepted:

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



This was explained by Yamarāja to his servants, that these are mahājanas. Who? Svayambhūr, Brahmā. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ. And Śambhuḥ, Lord Śiva. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ. The Kumāras, the four Kumāras; *Kapila, Kapiladeva, Lord Kapila. Manu, Svāyambhuva Manu. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, accepted this: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāhur [Bg. 4.1]. This Manu. So in this way, we have to approach the right person, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2], who is coming in the line of Brahmā, who is coming in the line of Lord Śiva, in the line of Nārada. In this way, we have to accept a guru from the disciplic succession which is called paramparā, guru-paramparā. Then we can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise not. Now so many people are explaining Bhagavad-gītā. If you ask him, "Who is your guru?" he has no guru. He's himself guru. So you, what he can understand Bhagavad-gītā? It is not possible. So try to understand Bhagavad-gītā from the bona fide person and follow the principles, rules and regulation, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Your life will be successful.



Thank you very much. [break]...

*Your question is meant for persons who are too much bodily conscious. One who is thinking that "I am this body," for him, this yoga system is prescribed, so that he can control the senses. Yoga indriya*-saṁyamaḥ. By controlling the senses... Because we are disturbed by our senses. So there is process, how to come to the platform of prāṇāyāma. You have to find out a secluded place, and you should sit down there alone in perpendicular stature, you cannot close your eyes fully, half, then you'll have to see the tip of the nose. In this way, you have to concentrate your mind on Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. This is prāṇāyāma. So... But actually when one becomes already attracted to Kṛṣṇa by devotional service, then the prāṇāyāma process is already there. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata antarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



The real fact is to concentrate your mind upon Kṛṣṇa.



*So these boys, they have been trained up. This ārotik, this arcana, this distribution of literature, reading Kṛṣṇa books, hearing about Kṛṣṇa*-that means they are not allowed to think anything else except Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. They are... The prāṇāyāma process, you can do it for one hours, two hours or, say, one day, two days, but this, this prāṇāyāma process, who are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is natural. You cannot think. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. If you simply engage your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, that is perpetual prāṇāyāma. Not for one hour, two hour, or a minute.

Indian man: But some yogis say that...



Prabhupāda: Some yogi may say whatever he likes, but what Kṛṣṇa says, we have to accept.



Indian man: In the, in the modern terminology, they say this, this technique of prāṇāyāma...



Prabhupāda: But the modern terminology, that is not, that is not a principle.



Indian man: No, but they say it is a rocket way to God.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Indian man: They say it is a rocket way to God, doing prāṇāyāma.



Prabhupāda: What is it?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A rocket, rocket ship way to God.



Indian man: Rocket.



Prabhupāda: But we don't find so long yogis and prāṇāyāma wallas know anything about God. We have tested so many. They remain the same rascal. I have seen it. They do not... Ask him, any yogis, "What do you know about God?" Ask him. You can ask. You are press reporter. You can ask, "What do you know about God? Describe Him." So what is the rocket? Rocket means you should go immediately. But if you do not know, then what is the use of this rocket? If you do not know what is God, then what is the use of this rocket? Just like they are going to the rocket planet, moon planet. Now the American government stopped announcing this rascaldom. You know that? Yes. So if you actually have got rocket, then you must approach that you must know the thing. But simply waste your money and come back. So any sensible man will not allow this. This is good, prāṇāyāma. Rocket process, it may be. But we don't think that it is rocket process at the present age. Because in the śāstras it is said:



kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



Indian reporter: No. They compare it to rocket only because of the two stages that a rocket has to drop. They say by doing prāṇāyāma you'll drop material stages, that you...



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but we have to see practically what he has become. Simply talking will not do.



Indian reporter: Talking. Talking won't do.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply talking will not do. That, that... Just, these boys, they did not practice prāṇāyāma system, but bring anyone who knows about God better than him. Bring anyone. Any yogis, bring, and talk with them. They are neophytes. They are simply practicing three or four years. And talk with them. And what he knows about, he knows it will be proved. That is not rocket system. This is rocket system: Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. (laughter) That is not possible. That he cannot find out a secluded place to practice yoga. Where is secluded place in the city? Whole day and night, these cars are going and there is huge sound. Where is secluded place? And, and it is recommended in Bhagavad*-gītā, secluded place and sacred place. And he should remain alone. Where is such yogi? Find out. Where is such yogi? He should remain alone, and in a secluded place and a sacred place. And he should not change his āsana. Then he becomes a yogi. These are the preliminary things. But who is practicing these preliminary even? They cannot. Especially in the cities, there are so many yoga societies, but in the, it is stated that it should be practiced in a secluded place. So how it is possible in the city? So if you follow the instruction, it will be very difficult. It is very difficult.



Indian man: For a...



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not only difficult for us, but five thousand years ago, Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa face to face. Such an exalted personality, and he was a kṣatriya. He said, "Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible to practice this." He said. We have become more than Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna? Do you think? He said. You'll find in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Eh?



Indian man: Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda:



...kṛṣṇa

pramāthi balavad dṛḍham

tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye

*vāyor iva su*-duṣkaram

[Bg. 6.34]



"Oh, it is not possible." He was frank enough gentleman. "Oh, this is not possible." This is not possible. And these foolish persons, because they want to cheat others, they cheat themselves, they cheat others, they follow this system. It is not possible. It is not possible, frankly speaking. Do we think we are better than Arjuna?



*Devotee: In Bhagavad*-gītā, Arjuna's called Guḍākeśa, or one who has conquered sleep.



*Prabhupāda: So this yoga process is there, but it is very, very difficult. Very, very difficult, especially in this age. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. The dhyāyato viṣṇu, that is yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginaḥ, being absorbed in meditation, they see. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā. Mind, being absorbed in the Supreme, they can see. Yaṁ paśyanti yoginaḥ. The yogi sees. That is samādhi. That is. Prāṇāyāma, of course, they controlling the breathing. So these things are very difficult in this age. Therefore śāstra says,



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*Three times. When we stress upon some important point, we say three times, "Do it, do it, do it!" It is like that. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. So yoga practice is approved process, but it requires long, long period, time, and the time is not at all suitable in this age. And persons are differently cultured. They are eating everything, they are drinking everything, smoking. And it is not possible. It is not possible. Simply childish. It is not possible. And you can see practically. Just like I have given the example. Bring any so*-called yogi, mystic practitioner...



Indian reporter: As you, yourself have said: What is talking? What is lies?



Prabhupāda: What is the use of that persons? Here, the mass of people take. All over the world. Suppose if there is some process, if, and one percent of the whole population, what is the use of such process? So that is very important thing. That is important process also, but it is not possible to be practiced by the present age. This is... [break] ...become purified, you understand that Kṛṣṇa is present on your tongue. [break] ...waterpot, you put it in the water. So long it is not filled up, it will make some sound. And when it is filled up and goes down, down to hell, then there is no cut, cut, cut.



Indian reporter: Then, as you say...



*Prabhupāda: Eh? [break] ... that your, this so*-called talk will not help you. But that does not mean that in the spiritual life there is no talk. But Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is spirit. So why He's talking Bhagavad-gītā? What is... What do you think of Kṛṣṇa's talking? [break] ...nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇa. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇa, rasa-vigraha, caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ.



nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya*-mukto

*'bhinnatvān nāma*-nāminoḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.133]



*This is nāma. Abhinnatvād nāma*-nāminoḥ. There is no difference between the name and the person. Here, in this material world, there is difference between the name and the thing. Just like if I want water, if I simply chant "Water, water, water..." Sometimes some rascals, these, give the example that if we chant "Coca-cola, Coca-cola, Coca-cola..." It is not like that. They do not know, and they, they, they dare to explain this nāma. Such a rascal they are. They do not know what is name. Here is a description of the name: nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vi... This is caitanya. This is not dead stone. This body is dead stone. Caitanya means the living force. That is caitanya. So nāma is caitanya.



nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya*-mukto

*'bhinnatvān nāma*-nāminoḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.133]



This name is not ordinary name. This is absolute.



Indian reporter: How is that they say that in some of the mantras they are cakras and all that?



Prabhupāda: Hmmh?



Indian reporter: Some of the mantras...



*Prabhupāda: No, no. We have nothing to do with cakra. These cakras are concerned who are in the bodily concept of life. The bhaktas, they do not accept that "I am body." The śata cakra is concerned with this body, not with the soul. Yes. So these, the yoga process is prescribed for them who are too much in con..., bodily concept of life. Otherwise, those who are spiritually advanced, they're, they do not have to practice this yoga. This, simply name, if we follow... Actually, practically, you see... You practically see that all over the world, these boys, how they're advancing simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So this is fact. It is not imagination. How they're advancing, how they're becoming... Now, sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam, to make zero [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. They've made everything zero. They don't consider that Americans. Yes. They don't consider that "I am this body. I have to eat flesh, meat and wine; therefore my body will be maintained." They never think like that. This is mukti. Simply talking will not do practically. "I practice yoga and immediately my throat has become dry. Please give me cigarette. Please give me cigarette." There are so many. I have seen.



Indian reporter: So they are not yogis.



*Prabhupāda: You will find, if you analyze, you'll find so many. They're, at least, they smoke gañjā. There are so many yogis, I have seen, they smoke gañjā. You have not seen? Gañjā*-smoker yogis?



Indian reporter: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Indian man (2): Number of them.



Prabhupāda: Number of them. I do not know, how you have studied. So many rascals, smoking gañjā and talking of yoga.



Devotee: Drinking tea.



Prabhupāda: Taking tea. Taking tea, that is common affair. Big, big jug, tea.



Indian man: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: So see practically. Simply talking will not help. Practically see how this system is perfect. Thousands and thousands, not only one, two. If you travel all over the world and see our temples, you'll find in each and every temple, two hundred, hundred and fifty, fifty*-all devotees. All these boys and girls, nice. They, their countrymen, astonished. They ask them, "Are you American?" They ask them. How this transformation has come into existence?



nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya*-mukto

*'bhinnatvān nāma*-nāminoḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.133]



It is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. So by chanting Kṛṣṇa means they are associating Kṛṣṇa directly. There is no question of śata cakra, or this cakra. No. It is direct contact with Kṛṣṇa. And if one is in direct contact with Kṛṣṇa, what other method does he require? Everything is... Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim. If you are in direct touch with Kṛṣṇa, then where is the necessity of other tapasya? Everything is finished. Your ultimate goal is obtained. And nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim. And if you could not touch Kṛṣṇa, then where is this nonsense, yoga and jñāna? They're useless. You could not touch Kṛṣṇa. These things are... Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim.



Indian reporter: That is why He's called Yogeśvara.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are in touch with the Yogeśvara, then your all austerities, penances, finished. Now you enjoy life with Yogeśvara. That is the position of the devotees. Ānandamaya.



*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūtaḥ...

[Bs. 5.37]



This is a great science. So we have described all this in our books. They are reading, and public is very much appreciating. All right. (end)





730907BS.STO

*Śrī Brahma*-saṁhitā, Lecture

-

Stockholm, September 7, 1973



*Prabhupāda: There are about thirty*-five verses like this in the Brahma-saṁhitā describing the transcendental... [break] ...place of the Lord. It takes time. I have cited about a dozen only. Let me try to explain some of them because I have already taken much time.



So one verse in this we find,

*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpaṁ

*ādyaṁ purāṇam*-puruṣam naya-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*The Lord is one without a second, advaita. Acyuta, the Lord never falls down*-the distinction between Lord and ourself. We are also eternal living entities, and the Lord is also eternal. He is also a living entity, a person, just like us. But His name is Acyuta. He never falls down from His position. But we living entities, sometimes we fall down. That's our material condition of life. This is our falldown. Therefore He is called advaitam acyutam aṇadim. And He has no beginning. He is the beginning of everything. The creation is from Him, but He has no creator. So advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. And He has got multiforms. He can expand Himself. The one expansion is that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He has expanded Himself to live with you, within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām. Not only that: another place it is described, eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim [Bs. 5.35]. One portion of the Lord... That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Jagat means this material world. That is being maintained by one of His plenary portion, which is called Paramātmā or Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu or Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. So one portion of His plenary portion, He is within the material world. Material world means the universe. Aṇḍāntara-stham. Aṇḍa, brahmāṇḍa means this universe. This is not only one universe, but there are many millions of universes. So He is there. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. And aṇḍāntara-stham: He is within the universe. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. And He is within the atom also. Just imagine, expansion of God. So advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Although He is the oldest of all, you will find Kṛṣṇa always a young man. From His face you will find a young boy, twenty to twenty-five years. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Vedeṣu durlabham. If you want to search out God by studying Vedas, it will be very difficult. Adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. But He is very easily available from His devotee. This is the description.



Then in another place,

*ananda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhutaḥ...

[Bs. 5.37]



*The Lord, every (indistinct) is not material. That is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. His form is eternity, blissful, and full of knowledge. So all His paraphernalia in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, that is His expansion of that quality-eternity, blissfulness and knowledge. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. His gopīs, His consorts, His father, His mother, His friends, His trees, His flowers, His calves and cows-everything is spiritual expansion from Him. Everything... We are also expansion from Him. We are marginal potency, and this is spiritual potency. So everything is expansion. Therefore the Vedic literature says, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman." We are not (?) combination of two energies: marginal energy and the external energy. But in the spiritual world everything is only spiritual energy. So we are constitutionally spiritual energy. Somehow or other, we have been entangled with this material energy. So if we try in this human form of life, we can get out of this material energy and again go back to the spiritual energy. That is the opportunity. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37].



*Another śloka I wish to explain: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. The spiritual body is equally qualified for doing everything. Just like our hand, we can touch only. We cannot do... Or we can pick up something. But simply having hand... Or with the hand we cannot eat. For eating, we shall have to use this mouth, we have to use the stomach. But in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa, about Him it is described, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti: [Bs. 5.32] "Each and every limb of Kṛṣṇa has got the potency of other limbs." He can eat by His eyes; He can hear from His eyes. Anything. All the parts of the limbs, because they are spiritual, you can use it for any purpose. This is not understandable in this material condition of life, but it is possible. When it is spiritually realized, it is possible. These things are there.

*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*So His spiritual world, His planet, is described that cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. In His planet, there are many trees, many palaces, but they are all spiritual. Cintāmaṇi means spiritual. The houses, they are made of touchstone, just like here the houses are made of bricks and wood. There the houses are also spiritual. The touchstone, it is described in the śāstras that if there is any touchstone in this material world, the touchstone can turn iron into gold. So anyway, the houses... There are houses also, big, big palaces like here. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa. And the trees are kalpa-vṛkṣa. Kalpa-vṛkṣa means... Here you can get fruit, one kind of fruit from one tree. But there, any fruit you want, you can get, any tree. That is spiritual. Prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa. Kalpa-vṛkṣa means that. And surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. And Kṛṣṇa is very much fond of tending cows. And what are those cows? Surabhī. Surabhī means you can take as much milk as you like, and as many times as you like. Here in this material world you have got cows, but you can take milk, limited quantity, and also once or twice. That is the difference. In this way, if you read Brahma-saṁhitā, you will get complete description of the spiritual world, the spiritual entities, the Supreme Lord, His associates, His country, His pastimes-everything very nicely described. And if we become attached to such place, then we can try. We can try. We can prepare ourself for going back to home, back to Godhead. That is the perfection of life. That is the mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Festival Lectures





*Śrī Gaura*-Pūrṇimā, SB 7.9.38



� Māyāpur, March 16, 1976



*Lecture*-Day after Śrī Gaura-Pūrṇimā



� Hawaii, March 5, 1969



*Śrī Rāma*-Navamī, Lord Rāmacandra's Appearance Day



� Hawaii, March 27, 1969



*Śrī Rāma*-Navamī, Lord Rāmacandra's Appearance Day, Cornerstone Laying



� Bombay, April 1, 1974



*Nṛsiṁha*-caturdaśī, Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva's Appearance Day



� Boston, May 1, 1969



� Los Angeles, May 27, 1972



� Bombay, May 5, 1974



Guṇḍicā Mārjanam, Cleansing of the Guṇḍicā Temple



� San Francisco, July 4, 1970



*Ratha*-yātrā Lecture/Address



� San Francisco, July 27, 1969



� San Francisco, July 4, 1970



� San Francisco, July 5, 1970



� San Francisco, June 27, 1971



� San Francisco, June 27, 1971



� Los Angeles, July 1, 1971



� London, July 13, 1972



� London, July 13, 1972



� Philadelphia, July 12, 1975



� New York, July 18, 1976



Janmāṣṭamī, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's Appearance Day



� Montreal, August 16, 1968



� Hamburg, September 4, 1969



� London, August 21, 1973



� Vṛndāvana, August 11, 1974



*Śrī Vyāsa*-pūjā



� Hamburg, September 5, 1969



� New Vrindaban, September 2, 1972



� London, August 22, 1973



� Hyderabad, August 19, 1976



Rādhāṣṭamī, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī's Appearance Day



� Montreal, August 30, 1968



� London, September 5, 1973



*His Divine Grace Śrīla Sac*-cid-ānanda Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's Appearance Day



� London, September 3, 1971



Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī's Appearance Day



� Vṛndāvana, October 19, 1972



His Divine Grace Bhaktiprajñāna Keśava Mahārāja's Disappearance Day



� Seattle, October 21, 1968



Govardhana Pūjā Lecture



� New York, November 4, 1966



His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's Disappearance Day



� Los Angeles, December 9, 1968



� Los Angeles, December 13, 1973



� Bombay, December 22, 1975



� Hyderabad, December 10, 1976



*Varāha*-dvadaśī, Lord Varāha's Appearance Day



� Los Angeles, February 18, 1970



� Bhuvaneśvara, January 31, 1977



Lord Nityānanda Prabhu's Āvirbhāva Appearance Day



� Los Angeles, January 31, 1969



� Bhuvaneśvara, February 2, 1977



His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's Appearance Day



� Los Angeles, February 7, 1969



� Gorakhpur, February 15, 1971 - SB 6.3.24



� Gorakhpur, February 15, 1971 - Evening



� Atlanta, March 2, 1975



� Māyāpur, February 21, 1976



� Māyāpur, February 8, 1977



Jagannātha Deities Installation



� San Francisco, March 23, 1967



Śrī Śrī Rukmiṇī Dvārakānātha Deity Installation



� Los Angeles, July 16, 1969



Śrī Śrī Rādhā Gokulānanda Deity Installation



� London, August 21, 1973



Śrī Śrī Kāliya Kṛṣṇa Deity Installation



� Lautoka, Fiji, May 2, 1976



*Six Gosvāmīs Lecture, Śrī Śrī Ṣaḍ*-govāmy-aṣṭaka



� Los Angeles, November 18, 1968





760316SB.MAY

*Śrī Gaura*-Pūrṇimā

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.9.38

-

Māyāpur, March 16, 1976



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "In this way, my Lord, You have appeared in different incarnations*-as human beings, as animals, as a great saintly person, as demigods and as a fish and a tortoise. In this way You maintain the whole creation in different planetary systems and kill the demoniac principles in every age. My Lord, You therefore protect the principles of religion. In the age of Kali You do not assert Yourself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore You are known as Tri-yuga, or the Lord who appears in three yugas."



Prabhupāda:



*itthaṁ nṛ*-tiryag-ṛṣi-deva-jhaṣāvatārair

lokān vibhāvayasi haṁsi jagat pratīpān

*dharmaṁ mahā*-puruṣa pāsi yugānuvṛttaṁ

*channaḥ kalau yad abhavas tri*-yugo 'tha sa tvam



So here is a very specific statement about Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is avatāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the same Supreme Personality of Godhead, but He's channa. Channa means covered, not directly, because He has appeared as a devotee. Avatāra... Rūpa Gosvāmī has found out that He's avatāra of Kṛṣṇa. All the devotees, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Rūpa Gosvāmī, and in the śāstra, and the Upaniṣad, Mahābhārata, in every... Sādhu-śāstra. Avatāra should be confirmed by great devotees, personalities, and must be collaborated with the statement in the śāstra.



*So here is another statement in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. The directly, it is stated in the Eleventh Canto, you know,

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair

yajanti hi sumedhsaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*The Supreme Personality of Godhead, when He was being described before King Nimi by Karabhājana Muni the different incarnation in different millenniums, yuga*-dharma-vṛttam... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also described by Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura, yuga-dharma-pālo. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is described here as channaḥ kalau. In the Kali-yuga He's not appearing as other incarnations, not like Nṛsiṁhadeva or many, Vāmanadeva, Lord Rāmacandra. He is appearing as a devotee. Why? Now, this is the most magnanimous avatāra. People are so foolish, they could not understand Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66], they took it: "Who is this person ordering like that, Sarva-dharmān parityajya? What right?" That is our material disease. If somebody is ordered to do something, he protests, "Who are you to order me?" This is the position. God Himself, Kṛṣṇa, what can He say? He orders, the Supreme Person, Supreme Being. He must order. He's the supreme controller. He must order. That is God. But we are so foolish that when God orders that "You do this," we take it otherwise: "Oh, who is this man? He's ordering like that. And sarva-dharmān parityajya, 'giving up everything'? Why shall I give Him?" Sarva-dharmān: "I have created so many dharmas, 'isms.' I shall give it up? Why shall I give it up?" Therefore the same Lord came again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



Today is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's appearance day, so we must discuss this very thoroughly, that, that Rūpa Gosvāmī understood it. Therefore we have to go through guru. Rūpa Gosvāmī is our guru. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said,

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade, hoibe ākuti,

*kabe hāma bujhabo, śrī*-yugala-pīriti



*If we want to understand the transcendental position of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then we have to go through guru, guru*-paramparā system. Otherwise it is not possible. Rūpa-raghunātha pade hoibe ākuti. Unless we accept this process, unless we submit... This whole process is submission. Kṛṣṇa wants this. Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. So if you want to approach Kṛṣṇa, you have to become very submissive. And to whom? "Kṛṣṇa is not here. To whom I shall submit?" No. To His devotee, to His representative. The business is submission. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared this day for giving mercy to the fallen souls who are so foolish, they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is personally teaching how to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is this kīrtana. You'll find. You have seen the picture in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya that in Prayag He was engaged in chanting, and Rūpa Gosvāmī is offering his obeisances. That is the first meeting with Rūpa Gosvāmī, and he composed this verse, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te... [Cc. Madhya 19.53].



*Devotees: ...kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is channaḥ*-avatāra. He's Kṛṣṇa, He has come to give you kṛṣṇa-prema, but He's acting like a Kṛṣṇa devotee. This is covered. He is not commanding now, "You do this." Yes, He's commanding, "Do this," but in different way. Because people misunderstood, "Oh, who is this person commanding?" Even some so-called rascal scholar, he has said, "It's too much to demand." They have remarked like that. Yes, sophisticated persons, they are thinking like that.



But our process is to submit. Unless we submit, there is no hope of advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*If you want to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you have to take this principle, tṛṇād api sunīcena. You have to become humbler than the grass. Grass, it is lying on the street. Everyone is trampling down. Never protests. In the lawn you are... Everyone is trampling the grass. There is no protest. Taror api sahiṣṇunā. And tolerant than the tree. The tree is giving us so much help. It is giving us fruit, flower, leaves, and when there is scorching heat, shelter also. Sit down underneath. So beneficial, still, we cut. As soon as I like, I cut it down. But there is no protest. The tree does not say, "I have given you so much help, and you are cutting me?" No. Tolerant. Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has selected, taror api sahiṣṇunā. And amāninā mānadena. For oneself one should not expect any respectful position, but he, the devotee, should offer all respect to anyone. Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. If we acquire this qualification, then we can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra without any disturbance. This is the qualification.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to teach these principles. He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. There is no... Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt para-tattvaṁ param iha. Para-tattvam, the Supreme Truth, is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Supreme Truth is Kṛṣṇa, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt para-tattvaṁ param iha, yad advaitaṁ brahmopaniṣadi [Cc. Ādi 1.3]. The Brahman, advaita, monists' Brahman, which is described in the Upaniṣad, yad, that factor, yad advaita brāhmaṇopaniṣadi, Paramātmā, and the Paramātmā, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān*-this is the three features of the Supreme Absolute Truth.

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*The Absolute Truth is one, advaya*-jñāna. There is no difference. But He, according to our qualification of understanding the Absolute Truth, He appears as Brahman, impersonal Brahman; He appears as localized Paramātmā, Supersoul; *and He appears as the beloved Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, according to the receiver. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. That is meant. If you want to understand the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman, you realize that. If you want to realize the Absolute Truth as Paramātmā, everywhere, all*-pervading, you can realize Him. And if you want to see Him as the most beloved, then you can also have. That is the meaning of ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. You can realize the Absolute Truth any way. He is prepared to manifest Himself as you desire.



*So "as you desire" does not mean... That also, He is present because, here it is stated, nṛ-tiryag-ṛṣi-deva-jhaṣāvatāraiḥ. According to the evolutionary process, so there was water all over the universe. So at that time, daśa-avatāra, keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. Similarly, He became tortoise. Then He becomes Nṛsiṁhadeva, He became Vāmanadeva-so many. That is going on, nitya, nitya-līlā. Don't think the avatāra comes only to the human society, nṛ. But He appears amongst the animals, amongst the insects, amongst the trees. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā there is statement, "Among the trees, I am this tree. Among the animals, I am this animal. Among the persons... Among the fighters, I am this, I am this." He's everything, but just to point out a few... In another place He says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. He is prepared to be appreciated by you in any condition of life if you take His instruction how to realize Him. And if you manufacture your own way, no, that is not possible. That is... Even if you are most ordinary man, still, you can realize Him. There is no difficulty. How? Kṛṣṇa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: "My dear Arjuna, I am the taste of the water." Now, who does not drink water? Anyone? The animal also drinks water and the human being also drinks water. But the animal cannot understand God, although God is there in the water, and the man can understand because he is human being. Therefore a human being is different from animal. If we remain like animals*-we are drinking water, but we are not realizing Kṛṣṇa-then you are animal. This is animals. And if we drink water-everyone drinks water many times-so many times we can remember Kṛṣṇa. And that is the process of devotional... Smaraṇam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23].

*So every time, if you drink water and remember Kṛṣṇa, then you are on the devotional service. Where is the difficulty? But the rascals will not take it. That is the... Where is the difficulty? Everyone drinks water, and as soon as you drink water when you are thirsty, and the taste of the water appeases your thirst, so if you simply remember that "In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated that this taste is Kṛṣṇa," then immediately you remember Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remember Kṛṣṇa, it is devotional service, smaraṇam. Where is the difficulty? Where is the difficulty for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious? Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the illumination of the moon and the sun." So who does not see the moonshine and the sunshine? In daytime you see the sunshine and at night you see the moonshine. So if you see the sunshine and moonshine and if you remember Kṛṣṇa's instructions that "This sunshine, moonshine, I am," so where is the difficulty?

raso 'ham apsu kaunteya

*prabhāsmi śaśi*-sūryayoḥ

*praṇavaḥ sarva*-vedeṣu

(śabdaḥ khe pauruṣaṁ nṛṣu)

[Bg. 7.8]



*Now, if you think, "Eh, I am so learned Vedantist. Why shall I study the sunshine-moonshine and what? I shall chant oṁ." (laughter) "Rascal, this oṁ I am. (laughter) You are so big Vedantist. You chant oṁ, but that I am." Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. Every Vedic mantra is chanted after the vibration of omkara. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūr... This is the Vedic mantra always, every Veda. So either you become Vedantist or ordinary human being-does not know anything*-you can realize Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty.



*So Kṛṣṇa taught everything for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, but still, we are so rascal we could not understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came again: "These rascals failed to understand Me, and now I shall teach how to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa by My personal behavior." That is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His personal... Don't think that because He's playing the part... Just like somebody is giving massage to my body. So he's not giving properly. So immediately I take his hand and I began to give massage, "Do like this. Do like this." That does not mean I am masseur or I am servant of that person. Similarly, don't forget that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. You are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, and there is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's Deity also. There are some parties, they protest, "Why Caitanya Mahāprabhu's Deity should be placed along with Kṛṣṇa?" But they do not know śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. It is not different.

*So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa. It is confirmed by the śāstras. Here it is said, channaḥ kalau yad abhava. In the Kali*-yuga, directly He does not appear as the incarnation like Nṛsiṁhadeva or Vāmanadeva or Lord Rāmacandra, yes, but as devotee. So He's the same incarnation, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Abhavat. "Therefore sometimes You are called as tri-yuga." There are four yugas, but He is known... Because in three yugas He appears distinctly, and in the fourth yuga, the Kali-yuga, as devotee, therefore He's called tri-yuga.

*So today is the birthday or appearance day of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and this is the birthplace, this Māyāpura, and you are all present here. It is a good fortune. Always remember Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and chant śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda...

*Devotees: ...śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda.



Prabhupāda: This will make your life perfect. Thank you very much. (end)





690305LE.HAW

*Lecture*-Day after Śrī Gaura-Pūrṇimā

-

Hawaii, March 5, 1969



Prabhupāda: Today is the second day of Lord Caitanya's birth ceremony. The Lord has appeared yesterday, 4th March. Not exactly 4th March. It is called, according to Vedic calendar, Gaura pūrṇimā, the full moon day of the month of Phālguna. Phālguna means up to 15th March. From 15th February to 14th March is the month of Phālguna according to Bengali calendar. And on the month of Phālguna, the full moon day, the full moon night is the appearance, or tithi, or occasion, for Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya appeared on the phālguni pūrṇimā. Pūrṇimā means full moon, and phālguni means the month which is called Phālguna, which is calculated from 15th February to 14th March.



*So after the appearance of Lord Caitanya, there was great ceremony. All the inhabitants of Navadvīpa, His father, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's father, was not very rich man but was very respectable brāhmaṇa. The brāhmaṇa community, especially in those days, five hundred years ago, the brāhmaṇa community, as a community, they were not very rich because they did not care for material opulence. That is the specific quality of brāhmaṇas. There are four classes of men all over the world. [break] ...people, they are interested for success of this human form of life. They are called brāhmaṇas. And the next class of men, they are interested for political power, next important class. First important class is called who are seeking success of the human form of life, and the next class, they are seeking success to become very rich within this material world by political power. Another next class is trying to be successful by material opulence, by earning money, the mercantile community. First class, second class, third class. They are third class. And the fourth*-class men, they are called śūdras. That means they have no other ambition than to fill up their belly also. That's all. They have no intelligence to become brāhmaṇa, neither to become kṣatriya, administrator, or to occupy political powers; *neither they have energy to become very rich businessmen or industrialists. Therefore they are called fourth*-class men.

*So that division is there all over the world. Either you name differently, but these four classes of men are there, either in India or in America or Hawaii or Japan or anywhere. If you divide all people, they will..., you will find one class of men: they are not interested with this opulence of material happiness. They are seeking*-philosophers, learned scholars, scientists, religionists, reformers. Their business is different. So naturally, the brāhmaṇa class of men, they are not very rich. (baby starts crying) Oh. What happened? [break] ...are always, because they do not endeavor for material opulence, apparently they look very poor, but actually, they are rich in knowledge. But people do not care for knowledge, at the present moment at least. They care for material opulence. They think that this life is meant for highest grade of sense gratification. That is the general thinking. In this city, any city you go, they are struggling very hard. Everyone is trying to get very rich, to get monetary power, so that they can satisfy their senses. Just like I hear from my students that this island, Hawaii, is meant for tourists. Tourists means they are all rich class of men. They come here to spend money for sense gratification. That is the way of civilization, the modern civilization: "Earn money at any cost. At the risk of all advancement of life, enjoy." So this is not new thing, but at the present moment in this age, this mentality has increased very improportionately. So when I came to the compound, to the yard of this house, I was very happy to hear the chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, because in this great city of sense gratification, at least in one corner there is the vibration of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

*Today, of course, we find that our, this small endeavor to preach this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not very successful, but it has got the potency if the workers try for it. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "If people do not come to hear this philosophy, don't be discouraged. You sit down in a room and try to preach. The four walls will hear you. Don't be disappointed." So there is no cause of disappointment, but this is, today is, very important day, Lord Caitanya's birthday ceremony. At least in India, specially in Nabadwip, there is very, very great ceremony today. Thousands and millions of people are gathering to observe this important ceremony. So ceremony, apart from ceremonial function, let us try to understand the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. So Lord Caitanya thought it... Not thought it. This is a fact, that this sort of life, seek material happiness... Material happiness means sense gratification. That's all. Actually, according to Bhagavad-gītā... Not according to Bhagavad-gītā*-that is a fact according to any authoritative statement. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. Śrī Kṛṣṇa says that sukham ātyantikam. Ātyantikam means the super, superhappiness, ātyantikam-means that which you cannot excel more... That is the final point. That sort of happiness is not possible to achieve... Happiness... First of all, you must understand, happiness means sense gratification, happiness. You can understand it very easily. If I get some nice foodstuff, because I satisfy my taste, palate, I feel happiness, "Oh, very nice food I am eating." Similarly, you take any of your sense organs, when it is satisfied according to the sense object, it is called happiness. So the sum and substance of happiness is to satisfy the senses. But Kṛṣṇa says that sukham ātyantikam. The supermost happiness can be achieved not by these senses, but atīndriya. Atīndriya means transcendental senses. Just like at the present moment our senses are gross material senses. But there is another sense, not another sense, this sense. This is covered sense. Suppose you will try... You will be able to understand. Now, I want to touch some soft place to enjoy the sense of this hand, touch sense. But if the hand is covered with gloves, I cannot enjoy that sense so nicely. You can easily understand. The sense is there, but if it is artificially covered, then even the facility is there, I cannot enjoy the sense perfectly. Similarly, we have got our senses, but our senses are now covered by this material body. So Kṛṣṇa gives us indication in the Bhagavad-gītā that that superhappiness can be achieved by that sense, not this covered sense. Covered sense, you cannot enjoy the happiness superbly. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. Atīndriya means transcendental, not this covered sense. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means... We have got consciousness. Everyone is conscious, but that consciousness is covered consciousness.

*So we are trying to clear the consciousness without any cover, without any color. Just like there is water, pure water. Take sea water. It is very clear. But if you take clear water and if you color it, then it is colored water. It is not pure water. Or if it is not distilled, if you add some chemical, sugar or salt, then the taste is different. That is not the real taste of water. Just like if you thirsty, if you want water, if I give you some adulterated water, you are not satisfied. If you get clear water, pure water, then your thirst is quenched: "Oh, I am satisfied." Because the taste is there in the clear water, not in the colored water. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says sukham ātyantikaṁ yat [Bg. 6.21]. That superhappiness, super*-sense gratification, can be achieved by your transcendental sense, not by these covered sense.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to clear that covered sense or this colored consciousness or adulterated consciousness. Then everything will be there. You cannot kill consciousness. That is not possible. The Buddha philosophy is to stop consciousness, nirvāṇa. According to Buddha's philosophy, this consciousness is production by combination of this matter. This body is combination of matter: earth, water, fire, air, either, and, according to Bhagavad*-gītā, further, mind, intelligence, ego. This is combination. They are very finely analyzed by the sāṅkhya philosophy system, by Vedic system, into twenty-four elements. And according to some, twenty-five, and according to some, twenty-six. According to our Vaiṣṇava philosophy, twenty-six. According to Māyāvāda philosophy, this is twenty-five. And according to impersonal philosophy or void philosophy, it is twenty-four. So originally, it is eight. So in this way... Buddha philosophy means that this whole existence of our body or our self is the combination of matter. That is the way of thinking of modern scientists also, that this body is a combination of matter. Under Darwin's theory also, like that, "organic matter, inorganic matter." They are studying evolution of this matter, organic matter. But actually that is not the fact. The fact is that use, individual soul, that is the real fact. And that individual soul is the seed, and upon that seed, this body has developed. According to our Vedic understanding, the body develops on the seed. This is very practical. Why we have got different bodies, different types of bodies? Because the condition of the seed is different. The seed is the spirit soul, and by material contact it is covered by finer body, intelligence, mind, and ego. And according to the quality of that ego, we develop different kinds of this material gross body. Therefore somebody has developed the body in the modes of goodness, because material nature is divided into three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. Somebody has developed body in the modes of passion. Somebody has developed body in the modes of ignorance. But the root is the spirit soul. And the finer cover is desire, ego, intelligence, mind. And the gross cover is this body.

*So Buddha philosophy simply takes account of this gross body. They do not take account of the mind, because as soon as they go to the platform of mind, then immediately the question will be "Whose mind? Whose intelligence?" Then you have to come to the spirit soul. But the people for whom this Buddha philosophy was preached, they were not very intelligent class of men. Therefore Lord Buddha did not give them the information of the subtle body or the soul. They were unable. Why they were unable? They were gross materialists. The gross materialists, they are animal*-killers, gross materialists. That, these animal-killers, according to Bhāgavata also, they cannot understand finer things. Those who are animal-killers and animal-eaters, they cannot understand finer philosophical matter. Their brain is gross. Therefore they are much inclined to mechanical way of life. Machine. Machine is gross. You see? We therefore forbid our students, not to be meat-eaters, because by refraining yourself from meat-eating, you will have, you will develop finer... Not only refraining from meat-eating. That is one of the conditions. There are other conditions also. But this is one of the condition. Parīkṣit Mahārāja said, "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is understandable by liberated class of men." Liberated class means above the brāhmaṇas. "But those who are killer of the animals..." The killer of the animals are two kinds: one, gross killer, killing cows, goats, chickens, so many, gross killer... Another killer is soul-killer. Soul-killer means those who do not take any care for the soul. They are taking care of this gross body.

*So there are different kinds of philosophies in the world, but Lord Caitanya's philosophy is the superphilosophy. Superphilosophy means... Why superphilosophy? Just like Lord Buddha's philosophy is... There is no acknowledgement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or any God. His philosophy is this, the body, this present condition, is a combination of matter. So you dismantle the matter by meditation. You disperse the matter. Let the earth go to the earth. Let the water go to the water. Let the fire go to the fire. Let the ether go to the ether, the air... Because this is combination of earth, water, fire, so disperse it. When go to the total water, total earth, total air, then... Just like you prepare a doll. You take little earth. You take little water. You dry it in the air. Then you, I mean to say, burn it in the fire, and it becomes a doll. You see? That means you take all the help of all these ingredients, and it appears. Similarly, this body has appeared in that way, by combination. So you, if the doll is broken, then, in due course of time, it mixes again. "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." Again mixes with the water, earth, air. There is no... So as soon as it is dismantled and dispersed, there is no more consciousness, or the feeling of happiness or distress. Because we are all concerned with the feelings of consciousness, of happiness and distress. Everyone is embarrassed. Everyone is trying that "I shall become happy in this way." So that means he is feeling distress. So according to Lord Buddha's philosophy, these feelings of happiness, distress, is due to this combination of matter. So you dismantle this matter, material, there will be no more distress, and nirvāṇa*-finish. Nirvāṇa means finish.

*But, I mean to say, further development, Śaṅkara, he says, "No, matter is not all. This is false. Matter has grown on the platform of spirit." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. And the Vaiṣṇava ācārya said, "Yes, spirit is the basic principle. Matter is false. That's all right. But that spirit is not void. There is spiritual construction. As in the material world there is material construction, in the spiritual world there is spiritual construction." So that spiritual construction is not known to other philosophers than the Vaiṣṇava philosophers. So Lord Caitanya's philosophy, that is the greatest contribution to the world, that these living entities who are hankering after happiness by different process... By material process, by philosophical process, by mental concoction or mental process, they are trying, and Lord Kṛṣṇa also said*-they are trying-but that happiness is available when your senses or consciousness are pure. The same philosophy is also Lord Caitanya's philosophy. He says that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. What is the pure consciousness? Kṛṣṇa said that happiness can be achieved in pure consciousness, or when your senses are transcendental. He gave hint. Not only hint, He practically suggested also that "You simply surrender unto Me."

*So Lord Caitanya said the same thing. Lord Kṛṣṇa said... As the Supreme Lord, He commended-He has got the commanding power because He is the Supreme God-that "You surrender unto Me." Just like some superior, the teacher or father or king, says "You must do it." But there is force. A state says "You must do it," but if you do not do it, then there is force. Just like this draft board. They are demanding that "You must join. If you don't join, there will be force, and you will be forcibly joined after that." So here, in the Kṛṣṇa's order, because He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, there is no force. That voluntary. He says that "This is life. You surrender unto Me." But He could force Arjuna to surrender, or anybody, because He is Supreme Lord. But that force He does not apply because He has given us little independence. Therefore, if He forces, then His gift of independence is misused from His side. We are misusing our, that gift of independence, but for that reason, Kṛṣṇa cannot withdraw your independence. Just like you are independent citizen. You are... If somebody misuses that independence, he becomes a criminal, but still, the independence continues. You are criminal. You are punished. Again you are set free. That means you are given again independence. But again if you misuse, then again you are put into prison. Similarly, if the state cannot withdraw your independence, then what is the meaning of this independent country? How God can withdraw the independence He has given to you? That He will not withdraw. It is up to you to use your independence properly. That proper use of independence is to surrender unto... We are suffering, we are manufacturing so many philosophical ways, but actual position is-that is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā*-that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, God. We are not working according to our particular duty. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It has got a particular duty: to serve the whole body. When it is unable to do it, it is painful, the physician or the surgeon says that "This finger should be amputated. Otherwise it will create disturbance to the whole body." Similarly, we are all part and parcel of the supreme whole, but not surrendering unto Him, misusing our independence, we are giving pain to the Supreme. Therefore He comes, that "You surrender. Don't give Me pain. You just abide by My order. That will give Me pleasure. You will be happy." That state of consciousness, to abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.

*So Kṛṣṇa comes personally to canvass, that "This is not your proper order of life. You are misusing your independence for sense gratification and wandering through various types of transmigration of bodies, sometimes human body, sometimes dog's body, sometimes cat's body, sometimes demigod's body, sometimes rich body, sometimes poor body." "So you stop this business," Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. "You have manufactured so many duties. That duties means you are manufacturing so many bodies. That's all." Why you have got different types of bodies? We have manufactured it. God has given us facility. I wanted to become such and such. He has given us facilities, "All right, you become such and such." If I want to become a tiger, God will give me all the facilities to become a tiger. He will give me facilities, paws and nails and teeth so that immediately I can capture any animal, and with the instruments which He has provided within my body, I can immediately scratch it into pieces and eat. Similarly, you will find... You see the cranes. They have got big beaks. Why? Because they have to catch fish from within the water, so the beak must be very long. So there is facility. The hog has different mouth because he has to eat stool. So a different kind of body.

*So these bodies means we have manufactured according to our different mentality. Kṛṣṇa says that "You stop all this business. Simply you are migrating or transmigrating from one body to another or one planet to another. That will not make you happy. Sarva*-dharmān. "You just surrender unto Me. Because you are meant, your original creation is meant, for serving Me." Just like this body. When this body was made in the womb of my mother, it was just like a small pea, and from that pea, different holes came out, then hand came out, leg came out, the fingers came out. Why this finger was created? Because I require the service of the fingers. Suppose if I want to press something, if there was no nail, then I cannot press. It is so nicely manufactured. By my energy, by my desire, and nature supplying me ingredient, it is manufactured. So you are manufacturing different bodies, but our real sense is covered. So that transcendental sense can be discovered when we give up this material sense gratificatory process by creating different kinds of bodies.

*So that is the profit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the people of modern civilization, they have no information about this, how this body is being created. They are simply busy with the present problem. That's all. Present problem is not problem. We are eternal. Our problem is eternal. Therefore the modern age, the people are not very intelligent. They are advertising themselves that they are very much advanced. Actually, they are fools. And "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is full of ignorant. Therefore we are trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness*-it is our folly. You see? It is our folly, "the cry in the wilderness." But we cannot stop this business. You see? They may think that "Why you are nonsense people? You have given up everything. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You are fools. You are not enjoying life." They may say like that, but our, because we have nothing to do with them, our business is to satisfy the Supreme. That is my real sense gratification. I have got my senses. As soon as I use it for my satisfaction, it is material. And as soon as I use them for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, it is spiritual. That's all. Try to understand the distinction between material and spiritual. Material means I have to act. Acting means I have to act with my senses, with my desires, with my thinking, feeling, willing, so many things, because that is original. You cannot stop your thinking, feeling, willing, working, because that is your original nature. You are living entities. If you have no thinking, feeling, willing, desire or working, then what is the difference between you and the stone? You are not stone. Some philosopher are trying to make you stone, but that is not possible. You cannot become stone.

*So the whole process is to rectify, to purify your senses. And the purified sense means instead of using the senses for this so*-called material happiness, one has to utilize the senses for happiness of Kṛṣṇa. That is purified sense. The example, the vivid example, is Arjuna. Arjuna was not willing to fight to satisfy his senses. He thought, "If I do not kill my brother or nephews or my grandfather or my teacher, the other side, that will make me happy. If they are killed, then where is my happiness?" This is material calculation, because he was giving more importance to the material body, what is his brother, what is his grandfather or teacher? He was seeing the material. Just like what is our calculation? I am thinking somebody my friend and another body as my enemy. Why? Because I make distinction on the bodily platform. I say, "American? Oh, they are my friends. Russians? They are my enemies." Why? What is the platform of this distinction? The platform is body. Because one has got the Russian body by some way or other, another bod..., has got American body, I am making distinction. So this distinction is on the material platform. And the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction because it is simply spirit.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva (śvapāke ca)

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*One who is paṇḍita-paṇḍita means learned*-he does not make any distinction between a learned brāhmaṇa or a dog or a cat or a cow, because he sees the spirit.



*So we have come to that spiritual platform. We have to give up our, this sense gratification process, and that is the teaching of Lord Caitanya. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu practically demonstrated how to adopt that life of pure sense gratification or pure utilization of the senses. He said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa*-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Jīvera svarūpa haya means the real nature of the living entity is eternal servitor, eternal servant of Lord Kṛṣṇa. The same thing, what Kṛṣṇa taught in the Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught also in His, this Bhāgavata-dharma teaching, and practically He showed how to do it. That is His special. Lord Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all your material engagements. Simply just surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection from all reaction of your past sinful activities." Because we are creating our next body in this life. So if we become sinful or if we act only sinful activities, then we get next body, a very lower class of body, even as the germ in the stool. You see? There are so many varieties of bodies. And if we act nicely, piously, then we get better body. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. Those who are acting, those who are situated on the platform of goodness, they are promoting their existentional status in higher planets. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasaḥ [Bg. 14.18]. And those who are in the modes of passion, they will remain here. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And those who are very addicted to all abominable habits, they are clearing their way to hellish life. So to abominable life is these four principles. That we are trying to avoid.

So Lord Caitanya's teaching, the sum and substance of His teaching, is to understand that we are eternal servant of God. And if we immediately engage our energy to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then immediately we are transferred to the spiritual platform. And if we stick to that activities on the spiritual platform, then, as assured by Lord Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, we go back to Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana, go back to Godhead, back to home. That is our peaceful, eternal peaceful life. We should endeavor for that.

*Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances*-break)

Prabhupāda: Where is that girl? [break]



Girl devotee: Why does Kṛṣṇa have an external energy?



Prabhupāda: Why not? First of all say why not? What is your objection?



Girl devotee: Well, if He is pure, everything about Him is pure...



Prabhupāda: He is pure. He is pure, always pure. Suppose you are very nice girl, nice, but because you pass some urine or stool, does it mean that you are bad? Does it mean? Then? The urine may be bad, the stool may be bad, but because you passed urine or stool, you are not bad. Is it clear? Kṛṣṇa has got this external energy. That does not make Kṛṣṇa bad. Try to understand it. If somebody asks, "Oh, you are so nice girl, nice... Why you are passing stool and urine?" Is that any argument? I am just speaking on the argument's sake. Is that any good argument, that "Because we are very good, we shall not pass stool or urine"? Or "Because you are very good, therefore your urine and stool also will be very good"? Is that any argument? So similarly, if Kṛṣṇa has created this external energy, that is for His satisfaction. That's all. But why should you take? If we are confident about Kṛṣṇa's goodness, why should we bother about Kṛṣṇa's stool and urine? Why not directly Kṛṣṇa? Let Kṛṣṇa pass any amount of stool and urine. We have nothing to do with that. You cannot say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is all good. Therefore His urine and stool..." I am... Just try to understand. His urine is also good. That is a different thing. I mean to say, if this is an argument, that "Because Kṛṣṇa is good, He should not pass urine and stool," that is no argument. It is not... External energy is not affecting Kṛṣṇa. The urine and stool is affecting... There are some worms, they are very much attracted with the stool. You see? They are also creatures of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, this material nature, external energy of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa's. There is... Undoubtedly, it is Kṛṣṇa's. But that worm class of living entities, they are attracted by it. You see? So we should not be attracted. That should be our... Because we are not going to be worms of the stool. Kṛṣṇa, if He cannot... There are many arguments. If you ask question, "Why the government has created this criminal department?" Is that valid question? The jail department is criminal department, prison, where citizens are put into jail and given trouble. So if the prisoner says, "Why the American government has created this prison department?" is that valid question? The American government may create prison departments, but why you are interested there? Why you are going there? The real position is: because you are criminal, therefore government has to create such department.



So this material energy is created by Kṛṣṇa because there are some living entities who are not to satisfy Kṛṣṇa but satisfy their senses. For them, it is there. "All right. Your field of activities, here." So it is not Kṛṣṇa's desire. It is fulfill your desire. Because in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa is supreme, but if you cannot tolerate Kṛṣṇa sup... Even here there are so many: "Why there should be God? I am God. I am God." Are you God? But you have got this mentality, that "I am God." You cannot qualify yourself. You do not know what is God, what is the meaning of God. You are claiming God. Because you do not want to serve God, that is your mentality. So for these last, lowest class of men, there is external energy. [break] ...class of men, they will not abide by the laws of the state. They'll repeatedly break it. Therefore, "All right, you go there and do whatever you like." That is not government's intention, that people go there and indulge in unrestricted gambling and there... That Mr. Bhaṭṭācārya told me that sometimes some rich man goes there with all his wealth and stake it, and when he's lost, he fires himself, and the gambling managers puts him down and throws him in the... There is no law for such killing or such homicide or anything. Do whatever you like. You see? So there is a class of men. Just like a liquor shop. Liquor shop is licensed by the government. Does it mean the government is encouraging, that "You become drunkard"? But government is giving this license because there is a class of men who must drink, and they will violate all... Say, "All right. Let them have it."

*Similarly, there are two kinds of living entities: nitya*-baddha, nitya-mukta, eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. You see? So for the conditioned... They will never agree to abide by God. Therefore, for them, this material world, the external energy: "All right, you do whatever you like. You do according to..." But still, there is canvassing work. Oh, God sends His son to canvass, "Oh, this is not your right engagement. Please come back to home, back to Godhead." Kṛṣṇa comes. God Himself comes. He sends His devotees. He comes as a devotee just to again reclaim, but they are so stubborn, they will not give up this habit. Even in their so-called spiritual cultivation they are thinking that "I am God. I am the mover of the sun. I am the mover of the moon. I am the supreme," in this way. That is the disease. You see? So as for the diseased person, there is a hospital. There is operation is going on. So many severe things are going on. Similarly, for the criminal there is prison department. So it is not the government's desire that there should be hospital or prisonhouse. They can save so much money. But the people want it. A class of men, third-class men, they want this. They want to be diseased. They want to be criminals. So there must be some department for them. Just like Monte Carlo. So this is a facility for the living entities, for the slight independence which has been given by God to them. That's all. So material energy is there not by Kṛṣṇa's own will. You want it; therefore there is. Is that clear? Yes. [break] There will be no more. Is that possible? How many people are coming to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? You see? So therefore it must remain. Why do you grudge? But you be careful. That's all. That is your business. Any other question? [break]

Devotee: ...withdraw that independence, can we request Kṛṣṇa to force us to surrender to Him, due to our conditioning?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, you can request Him. And He sometimes forces. He puts you in such circumstances that you have no other way than to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Yes. That is special favor. That is special favor. Yes. My spiritual master wanted me to preach, but I did not like it, but he forced me. Yes. That is my practical experience. I had no desire to accept the sannyāsa order and preach, but my spiritual master wanted it. I am not very much inclined, but he forced me. That is also done. That is special favor. When he forced me, at that time, I thought that "What is this? What...? I am committing some mistake or what is that?" I was puzzled. But a little after, I could understand that it is the greatest favor shown to me. You see? So when Kṛṣṇa forces somebody to surrender, that is a great favor. But generally, He does not do so. But He does so to a person who is very sincere to Kṛṣṇa's service but at the same time he has got slight desire for material enjoyment. In that case He does, that "This foolish person does not know that material facility will never make him happy, and he is sincerely seeking My favor. So he is foolish. Therefore whatever resource, little resource he has got for material enjoyment, break it. Then he will have no other alternative than to surrender unto Me." That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yasyāham anughṛnāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ sanaiḥ. Kṛṣṇa says that "If I do somebody special favor, then I make him poverty-stricken. I take away all his means of sense enjoyment." You see? That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because here in this material world everyone is trying to be happy by earning more money, by business, by service, by this way or that way. But in special cases Kṛṣṇa makes his business or service unsuccessful. Do you like that? (laughs) At that time he has no other alternative than to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You see? But sometimes, when we are unsuccessful in our business attempt or earning attempt, we become sorry that "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so cruel upon me that I could not trust in this." But that is His favor, special favor. You should understand like that. Yes. (end)





690327RN.HAW

*Śrī Rāma*-Navamī,

Lord Rāmacandra's

Appearance Day

-

Hawaii, March 27, 1969



(kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)



*rāmādi mūrtiṣu kalā*-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*This is a verse from Brahma*-saṁhitā in which the incarnation of Lord Rāmacandra is described. Rāmādi. Not only Rāma, but there are many other, innumerable incarnations. They are compared with the waves of a river. As the waves of the river or the waves of the ocean cannot be counted, similarly, how many incarnations are there of the Supreme Lord it is not possible to count. But out of them, the principal names are mentioned in the śāstras. Therefore it is said rāmādi. Rāmādi means Rāma and also other, many incarnations. And they are existing. Not that one incarnation appeared and it is finished. No. Not like that. Just like Lord Rāmacandra appeared on this planet, say millions of years before. He appeared in the Treta-yuga. Treta-yuga means... We have passed only five thousand years of this age, Kali-yuga. Before that, there was Dvāpara-yuga. Dvāpara-yuga means 800,000 years. And before that, there was Tretā-yuga, which continued for twelve hundred thousands of years. That means at least two million years before Lord Rāmacandra appeared on this planet.



*So now Lord Rāmacandra appeared in Ayodhyā. There is a place in Ayodhyā, in northern India. There He appeared. As Kṛṣṇa appeared in Mathurā... That is also northern India. And Mathurā is about ninety miles down southward from New Delhi. You have heard the name of New Delhi, the capital of India. So Ayodhyā is also situated about five hundred miles northeast of New Delhi. So Lord Rāmacandra appeared on this day. Today is called Śrī Rāma Naumi. On the ninth day of the moon Lord Rāmacandra appeared. His father was the king of Ayodhyā, and he had three wives. So out of... No. He had two wives. So out of two wives he got four sons. Rāmacandra is the eldest son. The life and activities of Lord Rāmacandra is... [break] ...in a book which is called Rāmāyaṇa. You have heard the name of Rāmāyaṇa. Rāmāyaṇa is also accepted as history. Vedic literatures are histories also. The Purāṇas, the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Mahābhārata, and Rāmāyaṇa, they are counted amongst the history. The history of Rāmacandra is that His father wanted to retire. Daśaratha, Mahārāja Daśaratha. And he decided to enthrone Lord Rāmacandra and retire. So everything was settled, but just one day before, his youngest wife turned the whole thing into different way. Sometimes Mahārāja Daśaratha was suffering from what is called whitlow, some trouble in the finger? And this queen served him very nicely, and he was pleased. And he said, "My dear Śarmiṣṭhā, if you want some benediction from me, I can give you." And she replied that "I shall ask you for the benediction when I require it. Not now." So just one day before Lord Rāmacandra's coronation, she approached her husband Mahārāja Daśaratha and reminded him, "My dear husband, you promised to give me some benediction, and I told you that I shall ask you when I require it." Mahārāja Daśaratha said, "Yes, I remember. You want some benediction just now?" She said, "Yes." "And what is that?" She said that "Rāmacandra cannot be seated on the throne. My son should be coronated, Bhārata." He was surprised. It is a big demand. So he said, "All right. That will be done. Your son." Because formerly, the kings... Not only formerly, even up to date, there are many kṣatriya kings in India. They have more than one wife. And they are, naturally, there is rivalry between different wives. So the same thing. Human psychology is the same. Even two million years ago the same mentality was there, and she asked that "My son should be the king, not Rāmacandra." Rāmacandra happened to be the son of Kauśalyā, the elder queen.

So Mahārāja Daśaratha agreed and called for Rāmacandra. "My dear boy, your..." She asked also that... She was very diplomatic. She wanted that Rāmacandra go to forest for fourteen years. The idea was political, that "The king may agree to install my son just now. Now, after a few days, this Rāmacandra may come with His army, and there may be some difficulty to continue the kingdom." So she wanted that Rāmacandra should go to the forest and He should not come back till the end of fourteen years from this day. So Mahārāja Daśaratha agreed. Because he was kṣatriya. Just see the promise. A kṣatriya never goes back from the promise, never refuses any challenge. If a kṣatriya is challenged by somebody, that "I want to fight with you," oh, he cannot refuse. This is kṣatriya spirit. He cannot say that "I am now busy." Suppose somebody comes to you, that "I want to fight with you." You may say, "What nonsense fight? I have no time. We are in the temple." But a kṣatriya cannot deny that. A kṣatriya at once must accept. "Oh, yes. Come on." And the weapon should be, if he has no sword or weapon, he should be supplied weapon and fight. This is kṣatriya spirit. They were highly charitable and chivalrous and keeping promise and with a great tendency for ruling over. They shall rule over. Administrators. Their business is...

There are different prescription for different classes of men for their livelihood. The brāhmaṇas, they can pull on their livelihood by six ways. Paṭhana paṭhana yājana yājana dāna pratigraha. Six. And they must be qualified with twelve high qualities. We have many times discussed. Out of that qualification, truthfulness is the first item for a brāhmaṇa. A kṣatriya may speak lies. That is allowed, because he has to be diplomat, politician. But a brāhmaṇa, oh, he's not allowed to speak lie. This is the system, caste system or varṇāśrama system. Everyone was trained. Because these four classes of men are required in a society. For proper upkeep of society, one class of men must be very intelligent, highly qualified, with all good qualities. They must be trained in that way, ideal character so that people can see and follow them. Therefore brāhmaṇas were taken to so much respect because they're ideal character, learned, and godly, knows the science, spiritual science. Therefore they're held in high estimation and topmost of the society. The next, the administrator, administrative class, kṣatriyas. They are trained how to kill. The kṣatriyas were allowed to hunt in the forest to learn the art of killing because that was necessity for the kṣatriyas. Kṣatriya, if he... If the king, if he finds somebody is doing wrong, he can immediately chop off his head if he likes. The king was so powerful. And it is not that if there was some war, it is not that the president or the king shall sit down comfortably at home and ordinary soldiers will go and lay down their life. No. Formerly, the king or the head of the state, he should first of all go there in the fight. You see in the picture, the chief men of the fighting in the Kurukṣetra, both sides, they were arrayed, this side, that side, with their chariot. Not that the head man, the chief man, or the commander is taking shelter back side, protecting himself, and poor soldiers are (chuckles) thrown into the fighting. No. These were kṣatriya spirit. And it is necessary that a class of men should be trained up in that way, kṣatriya, fighting men. In India, because this training was there since a very long time, so there is no difficulty in recruiting soldiers there. There is a class of men, they are very much forward in fighting still. They are called... Just like the Gurkhas, the Nepalese. You have heard the name of Nepal. Still a small state, independent state. They are not within India. Between China and India. The whole Nepal population, they are kṣatriyas. Oh, they are very good fighters. Similarly, the Sikhs, the Jātas. There are classes. So they're always forward for fighting. And you'll be surprised that the British Empire was voluntarily liquidated because they lost India. The Britishers, they understood that because we are now losing India, there is no more possibility to keep our eastern empire. Therefore they liquidated. Why? Actually, the whole British Empire were being administered or managed by Indian soldiers, these Sikhs and Gurkhas. They extended their empire. After taking their position with India, they extended British Empire in the Middle East and Far East simply by these Sikhs and Gurkha soldiers. They got supremacy on the Burma and everywhere.

*So there is necessity of a class of fighting men. You are finding in your country difficulty in recruiting because the recruiting process is wrong. You are recruiting from persons... You are training persons just like śūdras, and you want them to fight. How they can fight? It is not possible. So as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ... [Bg. 4.13]. Lord Kṛṣṇa said that "The four classes or orders of the society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, is planned by Me according to work and quality." So this kṣatriya quality men is also required, the brāhmaṇa quality of men is also required, the mercantile community, they are also required, and the laborer class, they are also required. Of course, laborer class, they do not require any training. Laborer class means one who cannot do anything, neither become brāhmaṇa, nor become kṣatriya, nor become vaiśya. That means the last balance of the population, they are called laborer class, śūdra. Śūdra means one who has no training. Śūdra has no saṁskāra. Saṁskāra means training. Everyone is accepted as śūdra by birth. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Janmanā means by birth. By birth, everyone is born a śūdra, a fourth-class man. It is to be accepted, and actually so. Just like a child, innocent child, what does he know? He has to be trained. Either you train him as a brāhmaṇa or train him as a kṣatriya or train him as a vaiśya. Or otherwise, he is śūdra already, born śūdra. Śūdra has no training. Everyone, the basic principle, basic foreground, everyone, it is accepted śūdra. Now, if you train him as a brāhmaṇa, then he becomes a brāhmaṇa. If you train him as a kṣatriya, then he becomes a kṣatriya. If you train him as a vaiśya... So I think this is, this system is very scientific so that if you want help of a really intelligent man or God realized man, it is ready, the brāhmaṇa class. Just like if you require the help of a lawyer, we have got so many lawyers. If you require the help of medical man... Because there are trained men. Similarly, the society requires to train a certain class of men to become brāhmaṇas. Just like we are training the Kṛṣṇa conscious. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the brāhmaṇas. They are not meant for fighting because they are not being trained for fighting. They have been trained for becoming brāhmaṇas. Who is brāhmaṇa? Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa. The four divisions are described like this. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ, everyone is born śūdra. That is accepted. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Now if you train him, never mind in which family he's born, you have to train him. Just like boys are sent to school for being trained. So everyone is accepted as śūdra, but you now train him. He goes to the guru-gṛha.

*Guru*-gṛha means teacher's house. Formerly, for being trained, there was no such big scale school and colleges. Every village... Still, fifty years before in India, in every village there was a small school conducted by the brāhmaṇa, and the village children would be trained up there. So he was sent for training. And there was no school fee. The boys will go there, and on behalf of the teacher or spiritual master, they will go, brahmacārī, door to door, and beg and bring forth alms, rice, dahl, grains, and everything. That was the system. There was no school fee. There was no problem how to send a boy to the school. Saṁskāra. Now he's trained up. The teacher sees the psychology of the boy, in which way he should be trained. Either he should be trained as a vaiśya or he should be trained as a kṣatriya. So everyone was trained like that, but generally, the son of a kṣatriya... Just like Mahārāja Rāmacandra or Arjuna, from the very beginning they were trained as kṣatriya. Naturally, if somebody is the son of a medical man his father trains him to become a medical man in future. That is the natural tendency. If the boy is different altogether that is another question, but naturally, that is the tendency. So a kṣatriya's son was trained as kṣatriya. A brāhmaṇa's son was trained as a brāhmaṇa and a vaiśya's son was trained as a vaiśya, and śūdra had no training. So gradually this became a caste system. Brāhmaṇa's son became brāhmaṇa. Because formerly, the training was there. But when it is vitiated, although a person born in the family of a brāhmaṇa, he is doing the work of a śūdra. So according to Vedic scripture, one is classified according to his work and quality, not by birth. That is the classification of śāstra. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Guṇa means quality and karma means work. One must be qualified for the work and he must actually work. Then he is counted classified into that, I mean to say, category. Just like if you are simply trained or educated as a lawyer, and if you are not practicing in the court, nobody comes to you to consult as a lawyer. Nobody cares for you. You must be practicing also. Similarly, to become a brāhmaṇa means first of all, he must know what is Brahman and he must be actually situated in the activities of Brahman. So devotional service are activities of Brahman. Activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means activities in Brahman. Brāhme carati iti brahmā brahmacārī. Carati means acts. Actually, he acts in life, applies the principles of brāhmaṇa in his life, he is called brahmacārī. So these were the trainings.

So just see how the training was, that a kṣatriya cannot refuse his promise. So Mahārāja Daśaratha, he fulfilled the promise of his youngest wife and asked his son, eldest son Rāmacandra, "My dear boy, You'll have to go to forest for fourteen years. That is the desire of Your youngest mother. And I promised that I shall fulfill her promise, uh, request. So please accept." Rāmacandra said, "Yes father, I am ready." Just see. This is the quality. Out of the six opulences of God, this is one quality.

aiśvaryasya samāgrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇāṁ bhāgam itīṅganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*How one becomes God? God is not manufactured by vote. There are definition who is God. God must be the proprietor of all the riches. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya. Samāgra means all. Nobody can compete with Him. Here, in this world, material world, I am rich man, and there is another rich man who can compete with me. There is another rich man who can compete with him. But nobody can compete with God in richness. That is one qualification of God. Nobody can say that "I am richer than God." You can say "I am richer than Ford or Rockefeller" or this or that. You can say. But nobody can say that "I am richer than God." Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti kiñcid dhanañjaya. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Dhanañjaya is a name of Arjuna, and Kṛṣṇa said that, "My dear Arjuna, there is nobody greater than Me." So if anyone claims that he is God, he must prove by practical example that nobody is richer than him. That is the first. But unfortunately, we are accepting so many Gods. A rascal in the street, he also claims that "I am God."



So similarly, the other qualification, nobody can be stronger than God, nobody can be wiser than God, nobody can be more beautiful than God, and nobody can be more renouncer than God. So here Rāmacandra, Lord Rāmacandra exhibited the quality how He renounced the whole kingdom simply on the order of His father, His obedience to father. He could have argued with His father, "My dear father, you, simply for keeping your promise and actuated by the dictation of a woman, you are doing this. Let us stop it. Everyone is expecting that tomorrow My coronation will be there, and they love Me so much." Because He... Just like Kṛṣṇa was so much loved, similarly, Lord Rāmacandra was the life of the people. They were very much expecting that Rāmacandra was going to be enthroned tomorrow. So how they were celebrating, how they were decorating the whole city. Everything. He never argued. He accepted immediately: "Yes, father. I am ready."

So then one of the brothers, Lakṣmaṇa, He also requested Rāmacandra, "My dear brother, You also take Me. I am Your constant companion. I must go with You." So He said, "That's Your wish. Voluntarily, if You want to come, You can come with Me." Then Sītā, His wife, young wife, She also said, "I'll go with You." Rāmacandra requested His wife, "Oh, you cannot go with Me. It is very difficult. You are a king's daughter, and you are brought up in so nice way, and you are so beautiful. You cannot go. You cannot take the trouble of living in the forest." So she said, "Oh, I am Your wife. Married wife. So I must go even if You go to hell." This is ideal wife. She could have refused: "Oh, Your father has ordered to go to forest. You can go. I shall go to my father's house or I shall remain here." No. This is ideal wife. She must be prepared to accept any circumstances of the husband. Not that when the husband is rich the wife is very faithful, and when he has come down to be poor or he's going to forest the wife gives up his company. No. Wife means better half. She must abide. Just like, it is said, just like a shadow follows the reality, similarly, the wife is the shadow of the husband. Wherever the husband goes, she must go. Whatever the husband wants, she must carry out. Of course, in this country this interpretation is taken differently, that wife is made a slave. But actually, it is not so. When Sītā was kidnapped in the jungle, Rāmacandra expected that, that she was beautiful, she was young, and "We shall be in open jungle. It may be some demons may come," and actually it so happened. So for Sītā, Lord Rāmacandra massacred the whole family of Rāvaṇa. Only for Sītā. So as the husband, so the wife. The wife was so faithful that she could not remain alone. She must accompany the husband even in the forest. And the husband was so faithful that, "Oh, my wife has been kidnapped." So He massacred the whole family of Rāvaṇa.

*So these are ideal history how... Rāmacandra, Lord Rāmacandra appeared on this world to educate or to place ideal example of a king. How the king should be. Therefore when there is good government... The example is given, Rāma*-rājya. Rāma-rājya. It is the kingdom of Lord Rāma. Because everyone was happy, everyone. There are so many instances in the life of Rāmacandra. One brāhmaṇa... Not brāhmaṇa exactly. Somebody came to Rāmacandra. Because at that time there was no court like this, that you have to go to a court and apply with stamp fee. Then your judgment will be delivered after six years. It is not like that. Anyone who has got some complaint, he should... The king used to sit in the open audience, and the citizens were allowed to approach the king and place their complaints. Because there was no complaint practically. Everyone was happy. Very minor complaint. So somebody came to Rāmacandra, and he charged Rāmacandra, "My dear king, my son has died. How is that, in the presence of his father, son can die? There must be something wrong in Your government." Just see. The charge is "Why my son has died before my death? This is unnatural." So there was nothing unnatural. The king was responsible even for severe cold, severe heat. That we get from history of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is stated. So the kings were so much responsible. They were always thinking of the happiness of the citizens, and the citizens were also so nice. One citizen approached Lord Rāmacandra and His next assistant, His brother, Lakṣmaṇa, informed Him that "He is a brāhmaṇa. You were absent on Your tour for, I think for a fortnight or a month, and this brāhmaṇa has not eaten even a drop of water during Your absence." Why? "Because he comes here to see You, darśana." Just like we come here in the temple to see the Deity. So Lord Rāmacandra was present personally. So he used to come. After seeing Rāmacandra, offering his obeisances, then he would go home and take something, his breakfast. That was his vow. And because he could not see for a fortnight or a month Lord Rāmacandra because He was out on political tour, he did not eat even. Just see. The citizens were similar to the king. So at that time, there was a statue of Rāmacandra which was being worshiped in the family from Mahārāja Ikṣvāku. Mahārāja Ikṣvāku, the son of Manu, happens to be the forefather of the family in which Rāmacandra appeared. So he was devotee of Lord Rāma, and he was worshiping the statue of Lord Rāma. So that statue was being worshiped by the family one after another. But when Rāmacandra was actually present He kept that statue in the closet of the room, and when this brāhmaṇa approached and Rāmacandra was informed by Lakṣmaṇa that he is so steady and strong in his vow, so Rāmacandra ordered that he may be delivered that statue so that in My absence he can offer respect to the statue and do with this. That form, I mean to say, statue, or arca of Rāmacandra is still existing in South India. It is being worshiped from that time.

So these were the dealings of Rāmacandra. Then He, His younger brother Lakṣmaṇa and His wife went to the forest, and His wife was kidnapped by the diplomacy of the demon Rāvaṇa, and there was fight between Rāma and Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa was very, materialistically, he was very strong. But the thing is for fighting with Rāvaṇa, Rāmacandra did not come back to His kingdom and take His army. No. He did not come back because He was ordered to live in the forest. So He organized army with the jungle animals, the monkeys. The monkeys. He fought with Rāvaṇa, an organized materialist, with the monkeys. You have seen the picture. And He constructed a bridge between India's last point to the other side. Ceylon is considered to be the kingdom of Rāvaṇa. So there was a bridge, and the stones were floating.

*So there are so many historical incidences in the life of Rāmacandra, and we should remember, because if we remember why we are observing today fasting for Rāmacandra... There were many kings like Rāmacandra. Because the kings were trained in that way. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was also as good as Rāmacandra, and Mahārāja Parikṣit was as good. There were many such kings. But we are not concerned because He was a king. He is the King of all kings, parameśvara. Because He is God, therefore we are observing today. Rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. So He is not original form of God. The original form of God is Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa expands Himself in various other forms. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam means millions and millions. The Manu is also incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So in one day of Brahmā there are fourteen Manus. So Brahmā lives for one hundred years. Just see how many incarnation of Manus are there even for one Brahmā, and there are innumerable Brahmās also. So, as stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that nobody can count how many incarnations are there, but some of the chief incarnations are mentioned, and Lord Rāmacandra is one of them. So Lord Rāmacandra, He killed Rāvaṇa and He installed his brother. His brother was devotee, Vibhīṣaṇa. So He did not go to conquer Ceylon, because He was emperor. He went to punish that culprit Rāvaṇa, and He installed his younger brother Vibhīṣaṇa in that... And He came back with Sītā, and again He was installed after fourteen years, and His brother was so faithful that so long His eldest brother was away, Rāmacandra requested Him that "Your mother wants that You should be king, and I also wish that in My absence You should be king." Bharata, He was so faithful brother, He replied, "No. You are king. So long You are living, nobody can be king. So I cannot be king." Then He requested, "At least You administer." Because after the departure of Lord Rāmacandra, Mahārāja Daśaratha died out of the shock because Rāmacandra was very pet son, eldest son. He was going to be king, and by his order He was sent to the forest. The father could not tolerate the shock. He died.

*So Rāmacandra's life, God's activities, pastimes, if we hear, that means we are associating with Rāmacandra. There is no difference between His form, His name, His pastimes, and Himself. He's absolute. Therefore either you chant the holy name of Rāma or you see the statue of Rāma or you talk of His pastimes, transcendental pastimes, everything, that means you are associating with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we take advantage of these days when the incarnation of God appears or disappears, and we try to associate with Him. By His association we become purified. Our process is purification. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means simply we are purifying our consciousness. From the birth, as I have explained, everyone is śūdra. Śūdra means one who laments. That is called śūdra. For a slight loss or slight inconvenience, one who laments, he is called śūdra. And brāhmaṇa means one who tolerates. A śūdra has no toleration. So kalau śūdra sambhava. Kalau means... This age is called Kali. So it is the statement of the śāstras that in this age the whole population is śūdra. And formerly also, by his birth, everyone was considered śūdra, but there was training, saṁskāra. At the present moment, there is no saṁskāra, there is no training. The training is only for earning livelihood. No other training. How one can earn money and enjoy senses*-that is the training at the present moment. But actually, to make successful the human life or the mission of human life, the Vedic culture is very nice. And by spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by adopting the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can revive that cultural life, sublime life. If not wholesale, if there are a few people trained up in this line, and they become ideal examples to the society, immense benefit can be derived from their examples of life. What is time? [break] (kīrtana) (end)



740401CS.BOM



*Śrī Rāma*-Navamī, Lord Rāmacandra's Appearance Day,

Cornerstone Laying

-

Bombay, April 1, 1974



*Prabhupāda: ...Rāma*-Navamī, the birthday of Lord Rāmacandra Bhagavān. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is mentioned,



*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, is the ādi*-puruṣa, original Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. In other śāstras also, like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. There are many expansions of Kṛṣṇa, but the original person, kṛṣṇas tu..., ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. So He is existing with His expansions. Lord Rāmacandra is also one of the expansions. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. All these expansions are existing eternally. There is no inferiority or superiority. All the expansions are of the same potency, same power. The example is given like this candle. One candle is now burned and you can get another candle burned, you can get third candle burned, ignite. But all the candles are of the same power. The difference is that one you can call the original candle and the others you can call the second candle, the third candle, the fourth candle. But so far the candle's power is concerned, there is no difference. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, can expand Himself, eko bahu syāma, in millions and trillions of forms, but all of them are of the same potency. But the potencies are sometimes exhibited according to the time and circumstance.



*So on this auspicious day of appearance day of Lord Rāmacandra, we are taking this opportunity of foundation of the cornerstone of our temple in this Bombay center. And it is very kind of Mrs. Nair, A.B. Nair, that she has given us this chance along with her husband. So, so far we are concerned, we are preachers. We are preaching all over the world. We don't require any palatial building or very comfortable apartment. But because it is a preaching center, in order to invite respectable persons, we require nice building, nice temple. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, our predecessor ācārya, he left his ministership, government post and became a mendicant. He was living underneath a tree every night. Not permanently underneath a tree: tonight one tree, next night another tree. But when he was approached by King Mānsiṅgh, the commander*-in-chief of Emperor Akbar... In those days rich men, big men, they were God conscious, and they wanted to do something for God's service. So King Mānsiṅgh approached Rūpa Gosvāmī if he could do any service. So Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was living under the tree, so what service he expected from King Mānsiṅgh? He said that "If you want to do some service, do it for Kṛṣṇa." So he advised him to construct a temple at Vṛndāvana.



Those who have visited Vṛndāvana, that temple is still existing in broken state. It was seven story. The four stories have been broken by Aurangzeb. But whatever three stories are still remaining, if we want to construct such type of temple, it will require at least four crores of rupees, not less than that. So in South India also, there are many big, big temples. It is not possible to construct such temples at the present moment. It is very expensive. But in our country, all the kings and rich men, they were interested in constructing temple. At the present moment, the tendency is practically absent. In big, big cities, development, improvement is going on, but very few people are constructing temple. This tendency of godlessness is increasing all over the world. In European countries also, America, first when I visited one county... It is known as Butler. So Butler County, it is a very small county. Still immediately I saw there are about half a dozen churches, very big, big churches. They were very old churches. In America also and England, there are many churches. But people have lost interest. They are no more going to the churches. And the churches are now for sale. We have purchased one or two of them.



So this is the position of the human society, not only in India but in other parts of the world. They are gradually losing the interest in God consciousness. This is not very good sign. So our, this present movement is to invoke the dormant God consciousness all over the world. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. When I started this mission, registered this name, International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, some of our friends said that "Why don't you make it 'International Society for God Consciousness?'" (end)





690501NA.BOS

*Nṛsiṁha*-caturdaśī

Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva's

Appearance Day

-

Boston, May 1, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...just like Janmāṣṭamī and Nandotsava. Yesterday you had some festival? No. That's all. So Nṛsiṁhadeva has appeared to convince the atheist (laughter) that there is no God. This is a lying propaganda that nobody has seen God. Everyone has seen God. The devotee sees within his heart, in the temple, and everywhere. And the atheist sees when he's... when the clock, the handles in the clock are over. You see? Prahlāda Mahārāja was seeing always, constantly Nṛsiṁhadeva. Mahābhāgavata. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who have developed love of God, prema, premāñjana-cchurita... When one's eyes are anointed with the, what is called?



Viṣṇujana: Salve.



Satsvarūpa: Ointment.



Prabhupāda: No, no. There is a technical name. Kajal?



*Brahmānanda: Make*-up?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: Mascara?



Prabhupāda: Huh? Anyway, the ointment which is applied to the eyes for clear vision. So when the ointment of love of Godhead will be applied in our eyes, then with these eyes we shall be able to see God. God is not invisible. Simply just like a man with cataract or any other eye disease, he cannot see. That does not mean the things are not existing. He cannot see. God is there, but because my eyes are not competent to see God, therefore I deny God. God is there everywhere.



*So in the material condition of our life, our eyes are blunt. Not only eyes, every sense. Especially eyes. Because we are very proud of our eyes, and we say, "Can you show me God?" You see. But he does not think that whether his eyes are competent to see God. That is atheism. He does not consider his position, "In what position I am." Even one cannot see a big man like President Nixon, and he wants to see God without qualification. That is not possible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I am not exposed to everyone. There is a curtain of yogamāyā." The yogamāyā will not allow to see God. Just like we have our condition that if anyone wants to see here in the temple, we ask him that "First of all take your shoes." Just like a little condition. Similarly, to see God, there must be some condition. That condition is that unless you become a lover of God, God is not exposed to you. Otherwise God is there, always. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu [Bs. 5.38]. Sadaiva means always. Not that simply when we come to the temple we see God. No. God is always visible to the devotee. Sadaiva. Sadā. Sadā means always, twenty-four hours. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The same example which I gave you, that the woman who has got a lover, and she's very busy in her duties, but she is always thinking of the lover, "When I shall meet him." This is an example given by Rūpa Gosvāmī that her mind is always engaged in the form or the activities of the lover. If that is materially possible, when you develop your love of Godhead, at that time you'll see God everywhere, always, twenty-four hours. That was the position of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was seeing always God, Kṛṣṇa, but his father was not seeing because he was atheist. He was asking, challenging, "Where is your God? You are talking of so many times God. All right, I shall teach you a lesson today." So he took his sword and wanted to kill his own son. Atheist is so unkind, cruel, that he is prepared to kill his own son, beloved son, five years old. That is atheism. And theism, the father who tortured him so much. So after the death of his father, he's praying to Nṛsiṁhadeva, "Please excuse my father." This is theism. So that is the difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and ordinary consciousness. They're very kind, everyone. Vāñcha kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. You utter this prayer, krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. Vaiṣṇava is the ocean of mercy. There is no end. As you cannot, I mean to say, draw all the waters from the ocean, it is not possible. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee, ocean of mercy. You can draw from it as much mercy as you like; still, it is full.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is the symbolic representation of Vaiṣṇava. So try to be not imitator, but follower. Don't try to imitate: "Oh, Prahlāda Mahārāja was thrown into boiling oil. Let me try, fall into the boiling oil." No. That is imitation. Just first of all you become like Prahlāda Mahārāja, then that will be possible. Don't try to make experimental. (laughter) That is not good. But follow, try to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājanas, great personalities, what they have done, you cannot imitate them. You have to follow them. You have to follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, but you cannot imitate them. Then you'll fall down. Anusaraṇa. Not anukaraṇa. Anukaraṇa means imitation; but anusaraṇa, follow. So what Prahlāda Mahārāja did, that we have to follow his example. His example was that in spite of continuous torturing by his father, he never forgot Kṛṣṇa. This we have to follow. In spite of all kinds of inconveniences and torture by the atheist class of men, we shall never forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There were many examples. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he was tortured. So he was crucified, but he never agreed that there is no God. So that should be our motto. This is following. Either you be Christian or be Hindu or be any, but be God conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means God conscious. And in any circumstances do not forget. That is called śaraṇāgati. That is surrender.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is protected by Nṛsiṁhadeva, and... Now, it is a fact that an atheist like Hiraṇyakaśipu, who denied the existence of God, so he was shown God at his last stage of life. Yes. So the atheist will see God, but when he will see, his life is finished. That means death. Atheist will see God in the form of death. And theist, Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, will see God twenty-four hours within his heart. That is the difference. Nobody can avoid death. So atheist will see God. If he denies God, but he will see God in the form of death. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that every moment our things are being taken away by time. It is not difficult to understand. Just like my age, seventy-four years, seventy-five, that means seventy-four years from my whole duration of life is already taken away. Therefore everyone of you should think that every moment, whatever asset you have got, the most valuable asset is the life, duration of life. That is being taken away. That is the law of nature. And the last taking away is death. So Kṛṣṇa says that mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Mṛtyu, death, takes away everything. Your education, title, M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C., your bank balance, millions of dollars, your good name, your house, your family, your friends, your country*-all taken away. All taken away. So for atheist, this is God. When He'll take away everything, he'll understand, "Yes, there is God." Yes. Just like a civil disobedient person, when he's arrested and he's put into the bars and given severe punishment, then he understands, "Yes, there is government. There is government." So government is there. For a nice citizen, government is there. He's taking all advantage offered by the government and he's obeying the laws of the government. No trouble. But one who says "I don't care for the government. I am free. I shall become naked..." Just like that John Lennon. (chuckling) He exposed himself naked, and government stopped immediately, that "You cannot do this."

*So things are going like that. Atheist class of men, they're declaring themselves free, no God, and that is all nonsense*-mūḍha. They have been described as mūḍha. First-class fool. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Study Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there. Those who are narādhama, lowest of the mankind. As the lowest of the mankind is atheist, similarly, the highest of the mankind is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So try to be the highest kind of mankind. The world is suffering for want of highest kind of mankind. And be an example. So you'll learn this lesson in this day of the advent of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana-chanting Nṛsiṁha prayers) (end)



720527SB.LA

*Nṛsiṁha*-caturdaśī

Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva's Appearance Day

-

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 7.5.22-34

-

Los Angeles, May 27, 1972





*Prabhupāda: So today, appearance day of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva. Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared on this Nṛsiṁha Cāturdaśī on account of His devotee, Prahlāda. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, abhyutthānam adharmasya [Bg. 4.7]. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtāṁ, sambhavāmi yuge yuge [Bg. 4.8]. The Lord appears with two purposes. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām: just to give protection and rescue the devotees, and to kill the demons, vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, five-years-old boy, his only fault was that he was Kṛṣṇa conscious. He was devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That was his only fault. And the father was so unkind to a child, even five years old. He could not excuse, "Oh, let this boy do whatever, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." No. The demons are so much against God consciousness that even at his home he would not allow his own child to become God conscious. This is demoniac civili... So you'll find many critics, many enemies, because you are making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the demons are always against this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the whole history. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified. What was his fault? He was preaching God consciousness, that's all. This society is so cruel. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured in so many ways. The torturing methods, I think you will find as you will see in today's picture, how Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured.



So one day, Hiraṇyakaśipu... After all, he was his son. Affection was there. So one day, Hiraṇyakaśipu asked the boy,

prahrādānūcyatāṁ tāta

svadhītaṁ kiñcid uttamaṁ

kālenaitāvatāyuṣman

yad aśikṣād guror bhavān

[SB 7.5.22]



So he asked his son, "My dear son, what you have learned? The best thing, what you have learned from your teachers, so you kindly let me know." So Prahlāda Mahārāja informed that "I have learned like this." What is that?



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam



iti puṁsārpitā viṣṇau

*bhaktiś cen nava*-lakṣaṇā

kriyeta bhagavaty addhā

tan manye 'dhītam uttamam

[SB 7.5.23-24]



*Tan manye 'dhītam uttamam: one who is engaged in the matter of hearing about Viṣṇu, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ. We are engaged in hearing and talking and chanting about so many things non*-Viṣṇu. Just like you'll find thousands of, millions of different types of magazines sold in your country, in all countries. Some of the magazines are sex literature, some cinema literature, some this literature, that... So many different types. There is one paper I have seen, "Diabetes Literature." There are many patients of diabetes, so they have formed a society, "Diabetic Society." I have seen it. (laughter) And there are many diabetic patients, they are being hoaxed, that "You pay two dollars per year, and you get all information how to protect yourself from diabetes disease." So in America two dollars is nothing, but it is collecting millions and millions of dollars, Diabetic Society. Diabetic magazine. So that sort of hearing and chanting is not needed. We are not interested in all these magazines, because we are followers of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He's our ācārya. He's guru. Prahlāda Mahārāja's guru is Nārada, and Nārada is also our guru. Nārada is guru of Vyāsadeva. So we are a branch, but the original guru is Nārada, Brahma-sampradāya. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is also a disciple of Nārada Muni.



*So he teaches that śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. We have to hear and talk and chant about Viṣṇu. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam. To remember Him always, to worship His lotus feet, pāda-sevanam. Arcanam, temple worship, to keep the Deity nicely worshiped, offer foodstuff, ārati, this is called arcanaṁ. Vandanam, offering prayers. Just like we offer prayer, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. These are prayers. There are so many prayers. Keśava-dhṛta buddha-śarīra, keṣava-dhṛta narahari-rūpa. These are all prayers. This is also part of devotional service.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

sakhyam...

[SB 7.5.23]



Arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam. To be always in service of the Lord, dāsyaṁ; *sakhyam, to make friendship with Him, to consider Kṛṣṇa as your friend. He says... Even if I do not say that He's my friend, He says, "I am friend of everyone." Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. He's friend of everyone. We don't want His friendship, but He wants our friendship. He wants us to go back to home, Godhead; *we don't want. So He is more anxious to take us, exactly like the father is more affectionate than the son. That's a fact. So He's the supreme father. So He wants that we may be happy, and therefore He comes to show us. He sends His representative, son. He leaves behind Him books so that we may go back to home, back to Godhead. So, sakhyam. He's always sitting with me, within my heart. I am in the heart, and Paramātmā is also within the heart as friend to give me advice that "Why you are bothering in this material world? Please come back to home, back to Me." This is going on. Sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam. Ātma-nivedanam means fully surrendered. So there are examples of devotees who, sarvātma-nivedanam. Just like Bali Mahārāja. He gave everything to Kṛṣṇa, even his body, everything, whatever, his kingdom, money, everything.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, iti puṁsārpitā viṣṇau bhaktiś cen nava*-lakṣaṇā. All these items means hearing. Hearing about Viṣṇu, chanting about Kṛṣṇa, giving everything to Viṣṇu, offering prayers to Viṣṇu, offering arcana, temple worship, Viṣṇu. In this way Prahlāda Mahārāja summarizes that "Anyone who is doing like this, everything about Viṣṇu..." iti puṁsārpitā viṣṇau bhaktiś cen nava-lakṣaṇā, "this nine kinds of different devotional services," kriyeta bhagavatay addhā, "directly to the Supreme Personality of Godhead," tan manye 'dhītam uttamam, "I think he is the best learned man in the world. He is the most learned." Tan manye 'dhītam. "He has studied everything very nicely." Actually, that is the fact. Jñāna, knowledge Knowledge means to know Kṛṣṇa, God, and the Vedic injunction is, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you understand the Supreme Lord, then you understand everything. You haven't got to study differently different subject matters. Just like we sometimes talk of science, of astronomy, economics, politics. We talk sometimes. But we are not going to, or we didn't study all the subject matter separately. But in course of our studying Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we know something of everything. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tan manye adhītam uttamam: "One who is engaged in these nine kinds of devotional services directly..." So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends, kriyeta bhagavaty addhā tan manye 'dhītam uttamam.

*niśamyaitat suta*-vaco

hiraṇyakaśipus tadā

*guru*-putraṁ cedaṁ ruṣā

prasphuritādharaḥ



As soon as he heard, "Oh, what this nonsense boy is speaking?" he became so angry that sphuritādharaḥ. When one becomes angry, his lips vi..., I mean to say, jumps. What is called? Quiver, yes. So he became so angry that it is said, sphuritādharaḥ. (He) immediately called his teacher. He's king... Because he thought, "The rascal teachers, they have taught him like this. I have entrusted the boy to the teachers, to brāhmaṇas, and they have taught this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So call him. Otherwise, how is that this small boy, five years old only, he's talking just like a great saint? So call his teacher!"



*brahma*-bandho kim etat

te vipakṣaṁ śrayatāsatā

asāraṁ grāhito bālo

mām anādṛtya durmate



Hiraṇyakaśipu became bitterest enemy of Viṣṇu because his brother Hiranyakṣa, he was killed by Viṣṇu taking the shape of Varāha. You know the story. Since then, Hiraṇyakaśipu was bitterest enemy. "Oh, He has, Viṣṇu has killed my brother. So He is my greatest enemy." So he won't hear anything about Viṣṇu. Any Viṣṇu devotee, he will punish him, even his own son. That was his policy. So he immediately called him, the teachers, and addressed him,



*brahma*-bandho kim etat te

vipakṣam śrayatāsatā

asāraṁ grāhito bālo

mām anādṛtya durmate



So here... Teachers are generally brāhmaṇas. Not generally. To become teacher is the business of the brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa means they have got six kinds of... Everyone must have livelihood. This material world is that you must work; *otherwise you cannot get your livelihood. That is the law, whatever you may be. So the brāhmaṇas' means of livelihood, six things: paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana dāna pratigraha. Paṭhana means he must be a very learned scholar, study the Vedic literature, and must teach others also. That is brāhmaṇa's business. And in that way, whatever the disciples bring, that is his income. No salary, no contract, that "If you pay me hundred dollars or five hundred dollars weekly, then I can teach you." No. There is no such contract. Teaching is free. It is the business of a brāhmaṇa to give free education to everyone. Now, it is the... Just like in our institution, I am your teacher, but there is no such contract that you have to pay me. But you pay me more than anything. So paṭhana pāṭhana, that is the means of livelihood of brāhmaṇa. And kṣatriya, they are kings. They can levy tax of the citizens because they are giving protection from being hurt by others. Kṣatriya means one who gives protection (to) a man being hurt by others. That is the real root meaning. Kṣatriya. And vaiśya means they should, kṛṣi*-gorakṣya-vāṇijyam, they should engage themselves in producing foodstuff, foodgrains, kṛṣi, protect cows. Especially gorakṣya. As the king is meant for giving protection to the man, similarly, a vaiśya is supposed to give protection to the cows, or they keep cows and produce milk products. They are vaiśya. And śūdra, simply service. So these are the different types of employment of different kinds of social order. And a king, the king has to see that everyone is employed. Not that hundreds of people are unemployed, and government has to give welfare, subsidy. Not like that. The king's duty is that everyone is independently earning his livelihood. That is king's duty.



*So here the teachers are addressed here brahma*-bandho. Brahma-bandho means a person who is born by a brāhmaṇa father but is not acting as a brāhmaṇa. He's called brahma-bandho, dvīja-bandhu. Dvīja-bandhu, one who is born of a, actually born of a brāhmaṇa father, but he's not acting as a brāhmaṇa. So Hiraṇyakaśipu addressed the teachers brahma-bandho, not brāhmaṇa. "Because you are untrustworthy. I gave you, I entrusted you with my son to be taught, and you have taught him this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So against my will..." He says practically, brahma-bandho kim etat te vipakṣaṁ śrayatāsatā: "I entrusted my child for being educated by you, and you have instigated him to speak in favor of my enemy, Viṣṇu? Viṣṇu is my enemy. How is that?" Asāraṁ grāhito bālo mām anādṛtya durmate. "This rascal boy, he does not care for me, and he has learned this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you have taught him. How is that?"

santi hy asādhavo loke

*durmaitrāś chadma*-veśiṇaḥ

teṣāṁ udety aghaṁ kāle

rogaḥ pātakinām iva



"So I think these demigods who are followers of Viṣṇu, they are coming in disguise and poisoning my son by teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you did not take care of him. So what is this?"



Then the teachers replied,

*na mat*-praṇītaṁ na para-praṇītaṁ

suto vadaty eṣa tavendra-śatro

naisargikīyaṁ matir asya rājan

niyaccha manyuṁ kad adāḥ sma mā naḥ



They said, "My dear King, don't think we have taught him like this. It is not... I know, it is not our duty to teach him against your will. But his Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not due to our teaching; *neither somebody is coming in disguise and teaching him." Na mat*-praṇītaṁ na para-praṇītam. "He is neither taught by us, nor by anyone else." Suto vadaty eṣa tavendra-śatro. Indra-śatro. The enemy... The Hiraṇyakaśipu is the enemy of the demigods; *therefore he is addressed as Indra-śatro. As he addressed the brāhmaṇa, brahma*-bandho, so they retaliated also, that "You are enemy of the demigods." Naisargikīyam, "By nature he is doing that. We try to forbid him. We try to stop him chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but still he's doing." Matir asya rājan niyaccha manyuṁ kad adāḥ sma mā. "You don't be angry upon us. We never did it." So... "He is, by his own nature he chants, he preaches, he's doing all this."



guruṇaivaṁ pratiprokto

bhūya āhāsuraḥ sutaṁ

*na ced guru*-mukhīyaṁ te

kuto 'bhadrāsatī matiḥ



Then he again asked his son, "Now I understand that your teacher has not taught you all these things. You rascal, where you have learned all this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" (laughter) Abhadra. Kuto abhadrāsatī matiḥ: "Wherefrom you got this rascal wisdom? Tell me." So this is the position, you see. Even father becomes enemy.



Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja is replying. Prahlāda Mahārāja is replying,

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*"My dear father, don't be afraid. It is not a thing to be taught." Matir na kṛṣṇe. "Nobody can become Kṛṣṇa conscious," matir na kṛṣṇe parato, "being taught by others," matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā, "or by mental speculation or thinking oneself," mitho 'bhipadyeta, "or by making conference meeting, religious meeting, conference." No. Three things. One thing is to learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness by speculative method, self*-realization. Just like so many people are very much interested that "Why shall I go to a guru? I can realize myself. I shall meditate." So that is called svataḥ. And parataḥ means by others' instruction. And mitho, mitho means by assembly. So who? Now, gṛha-vratānām. If one is gṛha-vratā... There are two things: gṛhastha and gṛha-vratā, or gṛhamedhi. "So those who are gṛha-vratā..." because he is pointing out his father's position, that he's gṛha-vratā. He has no other business. He simply wants to get money, hiraṇya. Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu, a nice apartment. That's all. So he says that gṛha-vratānām, "If one makes it his point to remain in a comfortable home life, for him, either by speculation or by teaching or by meeting, he'll never develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Gṛha-vratānām. Then what is their position? Now, adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamiṣram: "They are unable to control their senses, and as such, they are entering into the darkest region of material existence." Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām: [SB 7.5.30] "Their only business is chewing the chewed." They have no other ways. Gṛha-vratānām, those who want to be happy materially, actually they are chewing the chewed. Material happiness means sex life, ultimate, utmost, topmost happiness. So people are simply trying to, how to utilize this sex life in so many ways, in pictures and in... I do not wish to discuss. In dancing, in club, in so many ways. Because they cannot control the senses. The same thing, same thing, the same sex life in different way. Sometimes a naked dance, sometimes in this way, sometimes in that way. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām. I have heard that some people go to Florida and they spend fifty thousand dollars per week for organizing naked dance. So naked woman he has seen so many times, but still he spends more money to see it in a different way. That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], "chewing the chewed."



*So persons who are too much attached to sense gratification, and they have made it their conclusion that "We shall be happy within our family life or this social life..." Vidyāpati sings, tātala saikate vāri*-bindu sama suto-mita-ramanī-samāj(?). Our society means... Society, friendship, and love. There must be woman, must be children, suto-mita-ramanī-samāje. So there is some pleasure, undoubtedly. Otherwise, why people are working so hard to stick to this position? Vidyāpati sings that tātala saikate vāri-bindu sama suto-mita-ramanī-samāj(?). There is undoubtedly some pleasure, but that pleasure is so insignificant that it can be compared: a drop of water on the desert. Desert, if you want to utilize desert to make it a garden or productive field, you have to pour water. The whole ocean water you have to pour there. Now, if somebody says, "All right, you want water. Now take this one drop water," then what it will do? Similarly, our heart is hankering after so many things. We are hankering... Actually we are hankering after Kṛṣṇa, but we do not know. We are trying to satisfy our hankering in so many ways in material life. Actually we are hankering after Kṛṣṇa. Just like a small child, it is crying. It cannot express, but it is wanting the mother's breast feeding. So you cannot stop him crying unless it is transferred to the mother. Similarly, actually we love Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. Because we love Kṛṣṇa... Therefore you, who did not hear even the name of Kṛṣṇa, say, four or five years ago, why you after so much Kṛṣṇa? This is the proof, that actually we are after Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being accepted in Western countries by the younger generation. Why? Because every one of us, we love Kṛṣṇa. But it is now covered by māyā. We have to simply take out the covering, māyā; then we are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

*That is explained in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta,

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti 'sādhya' kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*That Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not an artificial thing, that we are making some propaganda on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, publishing some books, magazines, and our preachers are going place to place. No, there are so many propaganda is going on. But they are not so effective. And our, what means we have got to make propaganda? We simply make this propaganda, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Of course, we do sincerely. So if we propagate sincerely and seriously, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu has ordered, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa' upadeśa... [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. We must be sincere. Then, if we canvass, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," it will be effective. It will be effective. The business is not very serious or very difficult. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'... "Anyone you meet, you simply request him about hearing about Kṛṣṇa." So... But if one is so much covered by materialistic enjoyment, it takes little time. It takes little time. Otherwise, automatically there is love for Kṛṣṇa, and śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte...



*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, śravaṇam. If we hear about Kṛṣṇa constantly, through realized souls, not professional*-if we hear, satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido [SB 3.25.25]-then automatically, our dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness come out. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, therefore, that "Those who are determined to become happy within this material world, they cannot be raised to Kṛṣṇa consciousness either by personal teaching or by making conference or by mental speculation." That is not possible, because he is determined. So our duty is that we should know that in the materialistic way of life we shall never be happy. This is called knowledge. And vairāgya. So this vairāgya and knowledge is not so easy. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram: it is not possible. That means he assures his father, "Don't be worried. You will never be Kṛṣṇa conscious. (laughter) Because your only aim is to stick to home and money and women. Therefore rest assured, you'll not be ... It is not that a person like you will be raised to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Then? How you have done? The next question should be: Why they are sticking to this materialistic way of life?

*That is answered by Prahlāda, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. "These persons, those who are so much materially attached, they do not know the ultimate goal of life is Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu." That is actually the ultimate goal of life. We are here in this material world, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, to enjoy, to lord it over the material nature. Everyone is trying to become the lord, master of material... That is struggle. Nobody can become lord or master of this material world. But that struggle to become master, they are taking it happiness. They are taking it happiness. That is the nature of persons who are influenced by the modes of passion. They'll work hard, and that will, they will take it is very good, pleasing. Because they do not know that the... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They are hoping against hope to become happy within this material world. That is the whole history. Take the history, any history, modern history. There are so many empires: the Roman Empire, the Carthaginian Empire, the Greek Empire, the British Empire recently, Hitler's Nazism, and so many. For some time they become very powerful. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he's now very powerful. He's thinking, "Nobody can..." Now today he'll be killed. Keśava-dhṛta narahari rūpa is coming. So this demonic civilization will never be successful. That's a fact. But they are so fool, they do not see even historical evidences. So many empires failed. The Roman Empire failed, the British Empire failed. Still, somebody is trying to create another empire, another, different empire. Just like your President Nixon, he's trying to influence all other nations under his control. Why? Of course, I should not speak all these things. There may be criticism. But that is the way, going on. That is the way. We can understand. We can understand politics, economics, everything, but we do not bother about. But our aim is that this way of life, to increase materially happiness, it will never be successful. That is our conclusion. We are not fools that we have given up everything for advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we know that this, this way we shall never be happy. It is not possible.

*That is explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja. These rascal people who are so much materially attached... Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

*bhogaiśvarya*-prasaktānāṁ

*tayāpahṛta*-cetasāṁ

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na nigacchati

[Bg. 2.44]



*Those who are too much attached, bhoga, material enjoyment, aiśvarya, material opulence ... Bhogaiśvarya*-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. Persons whose heart has been misled by this kind of civilization, they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore to become too much materially opulent is a disqualification for attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is a disqualification. Because they don't care. Just like in our temple, not very rich men, they are coming, because they (say,) "What is this nonsense, Kṛṣṇa consciousness? We have got everything. These boys, they haven't got to eat anything; *therefore they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa on the street. That's all." They think like that. "They're needy. All right, they are needy. Give them some money." That's all. They don't like to take anything from us because the same business, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. They'll never understand, because their aim is gṛha*-vratānām. They want to be happy... Although they are seeing there is no happiness, they never can be happy, still... This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvanānām [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed. One, the sugarcane, is chewed by somebody. It is thrown away. And if somebody else comes and chew it again, what juice he will have it? So punaḥ punaś carvita... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ [SB 7.5.31]. Durāśayā ye durāśayā viṣaya vāsī (reads Sanskrit commentary) tantraya kāraṇaṁ te hi viṣṇuṁ na viduḥ. Tatra hetu svasminn eva arthe puruṣartha yeṣāṁ teṣāṁ gatiṁ grāmyaṁ. Na tu te 'pi guru pati syāt viṣṇu jñāsyasi tatra bhak bahir viṣaye bahavo yeṣāṁ te bahir arthas tann eva guru tena mantra śīlaṁ yeṣāṁ te.



*So one who is fixed up in this conclusion, that "We shall become happy with this materialistic way of life," they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And they do not know also that our ultimate goal of life is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. Then why it is so? Now, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They have become blind. They are blind themselves, and they are also led by blind leaders. The leaders, at the present moment, leaders, they say that "Why you are going to church? Why you are going to temple? If you want your bread..." Just like in Christian religion you go to church, "O God, give us our daily bread." But the atheist class, they are propagating, "For bread, why you are going to church? You make industry, you make business, and you get bread." But actually... We were just talking that there are so many unemployment. Our Karandhara prabhu was... No. Who was talking? Śyāmasundara. Śyāmasundara said that the computer... What is called, computer? It can do thousands of men's business. So they have discovered this machine. That means thousands of men will be unemployed. That is actually happening in your country due to so many machines. Now, take for example, formerly... You have seen the picture, Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana picture, Kṛṣṇa's father transferring Kṛṣṇa. They were going on bullock carts, no motorcar. You have seen the picture. So formerly, transport was bullock carts. The cows and the bulls, the bulls were employed for agricultural purpose, for drawing the carts. So there was no necessity of motorcar. Now you have got motor, motor-tractor. You don't want the bullocks. Therefore kill them. How you can utilize them? Therefore you must have slaughterhouse to kill them. And as soon as you kill them, then you have to eat them. So this is the, I mean to say, entanglement. If you kill, then you become responsible for being killed. The subtle laws...

*Therefore, without knowing our ultimate goal of life is Viṣṇu, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum... [SB 7.5.31]. That is our interest. The human form of life is offered by nature after so much evolutionary process. Just to understand Viṣṇu, God, this is the only business. But instead of attending our real business, we are trying to be happy in other ways. Then you can say that "If we are engaged in real business, then how the economic question will be solved? We have to work." That's all right, you work. But work simple. Why you have invented so much botheration? Work is there. If you have cows and if you have got land, then you till the land, get grains, and there is milk, there is fruit, there is flower. Anywhere, you can live peacefully. Whole economic question is solved. And because we have forgotten, we have missed the real point, that our life is meant for God-realization. We are simply increasing botheration. Punaḥ punaś carvita. Adānta-gobhir viṣatāṁ tamisram. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. The leaders are blind; we are also blind. So they are advising that "If you want to solve your economic problem, why you are going to church? Why you are going to temple? Come here, increase business, industry. Take loan and start business." That's all. This is going on. But actually, the more we are trying to mislead this people... Because they are thinking it is all right. They are... That the social condition is becoming more and more grave. That's a fact. We are trying to solve one problem, but many other problems are coming because we do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. Because we are missing the real point.

*Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. These rascals, they are thinking that by so-called economic development, by exploiting material resources, we shall be happy. That is not possible. The best example your country has given. You have exploited the material resources, and other countries are also following, but where is the happiness? Instead of happiness, there is "hippyness." (laughter) So still, they have no eyes to see that "Where we are going?" Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram punaḥ punaś carvita-carvanānām [SB 7.5.30]. Because we cannot control our senses, we are driving, we are being pushed towards the darkest region of material existence, very hard to leave. Darkest region means that we are going to become animals next life. Because this is animalistic civilization. Nature gave us the opportunity to realize God, but God-realization is meant for human being. The human being, if he does not realize God, he's simply engaged in animalistic way of life-eating, sleeping, mating-then nature will call, "All right, sir, again become animal." Punar mūṣiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." You know this story? Punar mūṣiko bhava. There is a story. There is a very nice story. One rat, mouse, he came to a saintly person. Everyone comes to saintly person for some blessing, you see. Real blessing they don't want. Some material blessing. Real blessing, Kṛṣṇa, they don't want. If you give him some blessing that "You become very rich man and..." These... they'll be very much pleased. are all very well, this. So this mouse also came and begged the saintly person, "Sir, I am in difficulty. If you give me some blessing?"

"What is that?"

"The cat chases after me always. I'm very unhappy."

"So what do you want?"

"Now, if you make me a cat, then I can get relief from this."

"All right, you become cat." So he became cat.

So after few days, again he comes. "Sir, again I am in trouble."

"What is that?"

"The dog is chasing me." (laughter) Don't laugh, hear seriously. "Dog is chasing me."

"All right, then, what do you want?"

"Now, make me a tiger."

"All right, you become a tiger."

So when he became a tiger he was staring on the saintly person like this.

So he asked, "Why you are staring upon me? You want to eat me?"

"Yes."

So he again curses, punar mūṣiko bhava: "Again you become mouse. Again you become mouse."

*So that is our position. We are advanced in civilization. Now we want to kill God. So we are again going to be uncivilized, to remain in the forest and to remain naked. Actually, they are practicing that: nature's life. So again they are going to be aborigines. And that is being practiced. They are going to the forest, they remain naked. So actually, punar mūṣiko bhava: "Again become mouse." Civilized human being means God conscious, happy life, no trouble, no enviousness, everything happy, no hard labor. Why hard labor? Everything is there. You just employ your little intelligence, you get sufficient food by grains, by fruits, by flowers, milk. There is no difficulty if we remain in our own way. So that is the difficulty, that we do not know that our ultimate goal of life is God*-realization. Then God has got all arrangement. You cannot produce fruits and grains in factory. They are given by God. Why? That "You eat them and be Kṛṣṇa conscious, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." But we don't want that. We want slaughterhouse, unnecessarily. Actually, if you go to the store... There are so many stores. How many stores are selling only meat? It is not possible. Ninety-nine percent fruits, vegetables, grains you are taking, and maybe a little percentage of meat. So why you cannot give up this little percentage? If you think that meat is very palatable, why don't you live on meat? Russia is also trying like that. That has become the fashion. In Moscow, it was very difficult to find out nice grains. With great difficulty Śyāmasundara used to spend two hours daily to secure these things.

*So this is the problem. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ duraṣśayā ye bahir-artha māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They are trying to be happy by the arrangement of these material activities. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām. They do not know that the material nature is so strong that you cannot get out of it unless you are prepared to suffer more and more. If you take to natural life and live peacefully and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is your real life. And if you simply increase botheration and problems, then you'll have to suffer. That is the position of modern civilization. Actually, superficially we see that material advancement of material science, people have got so many machines, so many facilities. But actually, they are in trouble. Just like I gave you one example: the computer machine. It can work for thousands of men. So thousands of men means the thousands of men must be unemployed. And especially in your country, they are taking advantage of this machine because the salary is If you want to pay to the worker, a big, big salary. So they want to save. They are taking machine, and they think they will save money, so many workers. But the workers are becoming unemployed. The government has to give them welfare. The government will tax. That's all. (laughter.) Government will not give money, welfare, from government's pocket. The government will increase your taxation. So you are..., you stop payment by importing some machine, now you have to pay that money to the government. This is called entanglement. This is a crude example. I don't say that you stop all this business, but the material world is like that. You want to solve something; instead of solving, you'll create so many problems. This is material life. Because our life is not meant for solving problems and creating problems. Our life is meant for understanding God. Then everything is all right. But that you have given up.

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



They do not know that you cannot go an inch beyond the stringent laws of material nature. That is not possible.



Then the next question is that how... People are not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then, they are misled by blind leaders. So how, what is the solution? That is Prahlāda Mahārāja saying,

naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ

*spṛśaty anarthāpagamo yad*-arthaḥ

*mahīyasāṁ pāda*-rajo-'bhiṣekaṁ

niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yāvat

[SB 7.5.32]



*Therefore one has to take shelter of a pure devotee. That is the only solution. He says, naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅgrhim. The beginning was that "They are not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Then how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious if that is the solution? Then Prahlāda Mahārāja says, naiṣāṁ matis tāvad: "So long one does not approach a pure devotee," mahīyasāṁ niṣkiñcanānām, "great personalities, who has no more any material interest," niṣkiñcana, "and takes the dust of his lotus feet on the head..." Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim: "So long one does not approach such personality, there is no possibility of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious." Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim. As soon as one approaches the pure devotee and takes the dust of his lotus feet and puts it on his head, immediately, anartha apagamaḥ, he'll be freed from all this nonsense. That means he'll forget this idea that "Materially we can advance." This is the process. So we have to approach a niṣkiñcana, who has nothing to do with this material world. His only ambition is to serve more Kṛṣṇa. And if somebody approaches him and takes the dust of his lotus feet, then he can understand. Mahīyasāṁ pāda*-rajo-'bhiṣekaṁ niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yāvat. (aside:) Our time is over? All right.



*So in this way Prahlāda Mahārāja talked with his father, and the father became more angry. Instead of taking the lesson ... Mūrkhāya upadeśa hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you teach lesson to a foolish person, he'll be simply angry. He'll not take your lesson. How it is so? Payaḥ*-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you keep a snake and if you want to make friendly behavior with him, that, "My dear snake, don't bite any more. I'll give you milk and banana. You eat here and stay here nicely," he'll not... His poison will increase, and one day he will... There is a story in the Hitopadeśa: one day, one... The same thing. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So these are lessons, stories. So his father, Hiranyakasipu, became more and more angry. So one day... Because after all, son and father... The son was simple boy. So one day he said, "Prahlāda, I shall now kill you. I shall see how your Kṛṣṇa saves you." So immediately, Prahlāda was seeing to the pillars of the hall. He was king. So Hiraṇyakaśipu asked him, "Is your God, Kṛṣṇa, in the pillar?" He said, "Yes, sir. Yes, my father, He is there." So immediately, with anger he broke the pillar and Nṛsiṁhadeva came out.

Now we can honor Him. (end)





740505NA.BOM

*Nṛsiṁha*-caturdaśī

Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva's Appearance Day

-

Bombay, May 5, 1974



*Prabhupāda: ...boys who have played the Prahlāda*-caritra, Hiraṇyakaśipu-vadha. Today is the appearance day of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva. It is called Nṛsiṁha-caturdaśī. So I am so pleased that within such a short time these boys have nicely learned how to play, and especially I have to thank Mr. Hiraṇyakaśipu. (applause) (laughs) Mr. Hiraṇyakaśipu has played his part very nicely.



So this is very instructive struggle between the atheist and the theist. This story of Prahlāda Mahārāja is eternally true. There is always a struggle between the atheist and the theist. If a person becomes God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, so he will find many enemies. Because the world is full of demons. What to speak of the devotee of Kṛṣṇa, even Kṛṣṇa, when He personally came, He had to kill so many demons. There was His maternal uncle, His mother's brother, very keenly related. Still, he wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. As soon as any son was born to Devakī, immediately he killed, because he did not know who will be Kṛṣṇa. The prediction was that the eighth child of his sister will kill Kaṁsa. So he began to kill all the children. At last, Kṛṣṇa came. But he could not kill Kṛṣṇa. He was killed by Kṛṣṇa.

*So nobody can kill God. The demons, godless society, they simply want to kill God. But actually, God is never killed, but the demon is killed by God. That is the law of nature. This is the instruction from Prahlāda Mahārāja's life. We can understand that as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "I am also death in the shape of taking away everything, whatever you possess." We are very much proud of possessing material things, material acquisition, but when Kṛṣṇa comes... Just like Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja saw Hiraṇyakaśipu. His father also saw Nṛsiṁhadeva. This Hiraṇyakaśipu was very clever as the materialists, scientists, are very clever. Cleverly they are inventing so many things. What is the idea? The idea is "We shall live forever and enjoy sense gratification more and more." This is called atheistic advancement of civilization. So Hiraṇyakaśipu was typical materialist. Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu means soft bed, cushion. So materialist persons, they are very much fond of gold and enjoying sex. That is their business. So Hiraṇyakaśipu is the typical example of this materialistic person. And Prahlāda Mahārāja, prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa āhlāda. Āhlāda means transcendental bliss. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Living entities' real identification is prahlāda, blissfulness. But on account of material association, we are in miserable condition of life. So... (aside:) Stop these children.

*So this Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to become immortal, and he underwent penances, severe penances, so much so, the whole universe became trembled. So that Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, had to come to pacify him, "What do you want?" So he wanted to become immortal. Lord Brahmā said that "Although I have got very long duration of life,..." The duration of life of Brahmājī is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Sahasra-yuga, one group of yugas-Satya, Treta, Dvāpara, Kali*-it becomes about forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply these forty-three lakhs of years by one thousand, that duration of time is Brahma's twelve hours, one day. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ. So that Brahmā who lives for millions of trillions of years-still, he has to die. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu-darśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Wherever you go within this material world, either in the Brahmaloka or in the Patala-loka, you have to die. That is the problem. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, birth, death, old age and disease." Just try to... So Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to solve these in a materialstic way, but that is not possible. So in a negative way he wanted that "I shall not die on the (indistinct).

*His eternal servant. So he remains a humble servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he has no danger. Even if he has danger, he will be saved. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. Kaunteya pratijānīhi: "Arjuna, you can declare it all over the world that anyone who has taken shelter at My lotus feet, become devotee, he will never be vanquisher." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. So these are the assurances. But the atheist class of men like Hiraṇyakaśipu cannot understand this. That is the defect. They challenge always God. The dissension between the father and the son was that the son was believer in God, Kṛṣṇa, and the father was not. So at the end the father saw what is God in the form of death. At that time he could not save him. So that is the difference between theist and atheist. The atheist always challenges, "Where is God? Can you show me?" Well, you will see. Not now. Just at the maturation of your all sinful activities, when death will come, you will see Him. This is going on.

So it is very instructive lesson, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Now it is getting late. Otherwise, I would have recited some of the verses recited by Śrī Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of our gurus. There are twelve gurus, or mahājana.

svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ

kaumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakhir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



Actually, if we want to make progress in spiritual life, we have to follow the mahājanas, the great personalities. They are mentioned in the śāstras. Without father and mother, he became manifest. Therefore his name is Svayambhu. Without father and mother, he became manifest. Therefore his name is Svayambhu. Of course, his father is Nārāyaṇa, but not in the usual way. Therefore his name is Svayambhu. Nārada. Nārada Muni is also one of the mahājanas. And Śambhu, Lord Śiva. Kapila, Kapiladeva, the son of Devahūti. Svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kapilo manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. And Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja is our guru in the disciplic succession. So mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. We cannot chalk out what is the path of religion. It is very difficult to find out because there are many different scriptures and there are many philosophers. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Each philosopher has got different opinion. So how to get real path of religious way? That is recommended in the śāstra that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You have to follow the footsteps of great personalities. And Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of them.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja was born in a demon's family. His father was a demon. Prahlāda Mahārāja used to address his father as Asura*-varya, "the best of the demons." You have seen... He was patting his son, "My dear son, do like this, do like that. Tell me what you have learned the best thing." So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. He didn't, never said, "My dear father." "My dear the best of the demons." Tat sādhu manye. "I think that is very nice." What is that? Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham āndha-kupaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. "That this worldly life, materialistic life, is self-killing just like a dark well. So one should give it up and go to the forest and take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. That is the best way of life." So his father became very angry. So the atheist and the theist, they will never agree. But theist also never will submit to the atheist. This is the principle. Prahlāda Mahārāja was put into so many troubles by his father, but he never forgot chanting namo bhagavate vāsudevāya namaḥ. He never forgot.

*So we should take lessons from this story that even in dangerous position, we should not be forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will save us. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthite guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that if one gets Kṛṣṇa consciousness, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ, aparaṁ lābhaṁ, any other benefit or gain is never considered. This is so nice. We are hankering after getting this, that, this, that, this, that, so many things. Dehi, dehi, dehi, dehi. But as soon as you get Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be satisfied. As Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was offered all benediction: "My dear Prahlāda, whatever you like, you can ask." He never asked anything. But he was so kind. That is the example of a Vaiṣṇava son in the family. Despite so much troubles given by his father, still, he begged from Narasiṁhadeva, "My Lord, my father has committed so many offenses. Kindly give him liberation." He did not ask anything for himself. So Narahari, Nṛsiṁhadeva, immediately said, "Why do you speak of your father? Your father's father, his father, fourteen generations*-all liberated because a son like you is in this family." So this is the benefit. If a son becomes a pure Vaiṣṇava, devotee, he can deliver fourteen generation. That is a special prerogative because he is born in a certain family. So what we can give service to the family, nation, materially? If we become devotee, we can give best service to the nation, to the family, to the humanity. That is the philosophy.



So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching this philosophy that "You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness; your life will be perfect." And the method is very simple. It can be..., there is no secrecy. Just like this evening I was talking with a boy. He has got a mantra, very secret. But we say have no secret mantra. Our mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, is open to everyone. Why it should be secret? If by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we can approach God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, why it should remain secret? It should be distributed like anything so that everyone can go. So there is no secrecy. A secret mantra we don't approve. It must be very open. There is no secret. The śāstra never says that mantra can be secret.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



In this age of Kali... Kali means the age of quarrel, age of misunderstanding, age of disagreement. So in this age it is very difficult to come to the right conclusion by philosophy and other methods. Therefore in the śāstra it has been openly declared,



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*Three times. Three times means yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. There are many other things: meditation, sacrifices, worship in the temple. So in this age all these things are impossible to be performed, but even a child can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. That is proved here. Whenever there is Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, even the child can take part, old man can take part. So this is the only method for God realization. There is no expenditure, but the gain is very, very great. That was the teaching of Śrī Prahlāda Mahārāja, and we are following his footsteps. Let us stick to his principle, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], and thus become more and more advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Thank you very much. (end)



700704LE.SF

Guṇḍicā Mārjanam

Cleansing of the Guṇḍicā Temple, Lecture

*(the day before Ratha*-yātrā)

-

San Francisco, July 4, 1970



Devotees: All glories to Prabhupāda! Jāyate Prabhupāda! Jaya!



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi with Indian woman, chuckles) All right. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no space for the... So we require bigger space. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, Govinda dāsī has come? (chuckles) When you have arrived?



Govinda dāsī: About one o'clock.



Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. You can keep it... That's all right. So Lord Caitanya's sampradāya. (laughter) That is my joy, that we have now a sampradāya, a party of Lord Caitanya in the Western country. That is my success. That's all. I have no value*-insignificant-but somehow or other you cooperated, and you are still cooperating, and you are still cooperating as Lord Caitanya's sampradāya. That is my life. Thank you very much. (begins playing kartāls, ecstatic kīrtana follows)



*It is working? (taps microphone) Huh? No. So just one day before Ratha*-yātrā there is a festival in Jagannātha Purī which is called Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Guṇḍicā-mārjana. From the Jagannātha temple, about two miles away there is another temple house, not exactly temple, where the Deity Jagannātha goes during this Rathayātrā festival, from the temple to that Gundica house. And then the deities remain there for one week and then comes back. And during that one week there are many festivals. As I told you in this morning, this Jagannātha, He's proceeding toward Vṛndāvana. Rādhārāṇī is inviting Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, after His childhood, pauganda-līlā, He was called by His father, His real father. Practically, He was called for killing Kaṁsa, His maternal uncle, who was giving trouble to the whole Yadu dynasty, and everyone was waiting for Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa appeared, and immediately He was transferred to a friend's house by His father. Vasudeva is kṣatriya, and Nanda Mahārāja is a vaiśya. Kṣatriya business is royal family, and vaiśya, they are agriculturalists, traders, krsi-go-raksya, and protection of cows. These three business, livelihood of the vaiśya. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam [Bg. 18.44]. Kṛṣi means agriculture, and go-rakṣya, cow protection. This is Vedic civilization. A section of people, they are engaged in different activities. Not that a man is working as a carpenter and he's called, "Come on. You have to go to Vietnam to fight." This is not very scientific. He has been trained up as a carpenter, and now he's called to fight. That is not perfect division of... The fighting is required, but there must be a class fully trained up for fighting. That is kṣatriya. There must be a class of men simply for cultivation of spiritual knowledge. There must be a class fully for business, cow protection, agriculture. That is also required. Nothing is neglected. Just like in our body there are four parts; the mouth, the arms, the belly, and the legs. So everything is required for proper upkeep of the body. Not that you ask the mouth to walk or ask the leg to eat. How it is that? The modern civilization is defective. They do not know how to maintain society. There is therefore no peace. Especially there is want of brain. Crazy. Just like throughout the whole body, the head is the most important part of the body. If you cut your hands, you can live, but if you cut your head, you cannot live. Then whole thing is gone. Similarly, at the present moment the society is headless, a dead body, or head cracked, crazy. There is head, nonsense head. Nonsense head. What is the use of nonsense head? Therefore there is a great necessity of creating a class who will act as brain and head. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupāda.



*Prabhupāda: The whole human society is suffering for want of good brain. [break] ...created a nonsense democracy. A carpenter is called to fight? A cow slaughterer is called to preside over the meeting? What is this? One must be fit for the business. If you want to make one king, he must be just like royal, ideas, always thinking of the welfare of the citizens. Just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. The whole business was how the people will be happy. When Parīkṣit Mahārāja was born, the child, it is the Vedic system as soon as a child is born, immediately expert brāhmaṇas, astrologers, are called. Automatically, they... That is called jāta*-kriyā. There is a function. There are ten kinds of functions. From the point of begetting a child up to the point of death, there are saṁskāras, or reformatory process. By that process a human being is made perfect. That is called daśa-vidha-saṁskāra, ten kinds of processes. This upanayana, this initiation, offering the sacred thread, that is also out of those ten processes. The beginning of the process is called garbhādhāna, begetting a child. It is not sex enjoyment; *it is a process by which you produce nice child. If you produce nice children, then the world is peaceful. But if you produce cats and dogs, how can you expect peace and prosperity? Therefore that is a process, garbhādhāna*-saṁskāra. In this way the Vedic system is the perfect process for creating civilized human being. So that is another chapter. Our present meeting is concerned with the Ratha-yātrā.



*So Kṛṣṇa, He is born of a kṣatriya father. He is not born, but He appeared as the son. God is never born. Unborn. Therefore the Māyāvādī philosophers, they mistake to know Kṛṣṇa. They think that Kṛṣṇa is born, then how He can be God? But actually, Kṛṣṇa was not born from the womb of His mother. He appeared in four hands before His mother, and the mother was afraid that "My brother Kaṁsa, was awaiting to kill God, and now God is here in four hands. Immediately he'll kill." The mother forgets that "My son, if He's God, how He can be killed?" But the mother's affection is always like that. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was going to attack a demon as a boy, Yaśodā*-mā, mother Yaśodā, would ask her husband Nanda Mahārāja, "Why do you allow this boy to go out? Why don't you lock Him?" So that is mother's affection. The mother, Yaśodā mother, she does not know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then her motherly affection will be checked. Therefore she was, by yoga-māyā, she was always covered. Although Kṛṣṇa playing child just like a common child, at the same time showing that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He was eating clay. Some friends complained to mother Yaśodā that, "You gave Him nice foodstuff, and He is eating clay." So mother called Him: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, You are eating clay?" Kṛṣṇa said, "No, mother. They're all liars." (laughter) "Oh, Your elder brother Balarāma is also saying." "Oh, He is angry upon Me. He is angry upon Me; therefore He is also speaking lie." Then the boys still stressed, "No, mother. He has eaten clay. We have seen." So mother said, "All right. Open Your mouth. I'll see." So Kṛṣṇa opened His mouth, and she saw the whole material cosmic manifestation. Not only Yaśodā, thousands of Yaśodā and thousands of planets, sun, moons, and everything saw. Mother's thought, "Must be something jugglery. All right. Forget. Don't do it again." (laughter)

This is Kṛṣṇa, that He is playing the part of a perfect child. Mother Yaśodā ordering, "Open Your mouth. I want to see." "Yes, mother. Just see." And when she saw His mouth, oh, the mother couldn't adjust(?). That is God, that He is, by being obliged by the devotee, He is playing the part of a child, at the same time maintaining His supremacy as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa. Not that by mystic power one becomes God. No. God is God always. When on the lap of His mother He is God. And when His mother... On the lap of His mother, Pūtanā came to kill Him. So Kṛṣṇa sucked her breast and life also, but gave him (her) the position of mother because Kṛṣṇa is so good that He did not take the bad side. Kṛṣṇa, how can He be envious? He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Everyone is His part and parcel; therefore He cannot be envious to anyone. He is always kind of everyone. So this incident, that Kṛṣṇa... Pūtanā came to kill Him by smearing poison on her breast. She thought that "The child will suck my breast and immediately die." The child sucked the breast as well as her life. But Kṛṣṇa thought that "This demon, although came to Me with a purpose to kill Me, but I have been used as her child, and she has become My mother, so she must get the position of My mother." This is Kṛṣṇa's kindness.

*So try to understand Kṛṣṇa philosophy very nicely, what is God. There are so many fictitious rogues, rascals, they are presenting themselves God. Try to understand what is God. Don't be misled. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There is no other God except Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mām ekam, "Only unto Me surrender." And He has proved Himself that He is God. There are many so-called Gods, but they have not proved that they are God. No. God is one, and that is Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa, when He was called by His father... People generally did not know that Kṛṣṇa is Vasudeva's son, but later on it was disclosed by talkings one after another. Then, when the fact was disclosed, then Kamsa arranged for a wrestling match, and Kṛṣṇa was called to fight. That you will read in our Kṛṣṇa book. It's a long story. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa went to His father's house, and He came to Kurukṣetra in the chariot. This is Ratha-yātrā. And Rādhārāṇī and the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, their only business was... After Kṛṣṇa departed from Vṛndāvana to Mathurā and He never returned... Once He returned. So mother Yaśodā, the cowherd boys and the gopīs, they lost their life and vital force. So they were simply crying and weeping. That was their business. So Kṛṣṇa sent sometimes Uddhava to pacify them, that "I am coming very soon after finishing My business." So when they got this opportunity that "Kṛṣṇa has come to Kurukṣetra with His brother, sister, father. So let us go and see..." So they went to Kurukṣetra to see Kṛṣṇa. Whenever they got some opportunity, they wanted to see. Just like these cowherds boys, when there was Battle of Kurukṣetra near Delhi... Vṛndāvana is not far away from Delhi. It is about ninety miles. So they went to see Kṛṣṇa in the charioteer fighting dress. They were astonished. They thought that "Kṛṣṇa is our friend, cowherd boy. How is that, He is in the chariot fighting?" So they became astonished. So this is the pastimes of Vṛndāvana. So similarly, when the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana went to see Lord Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha... Kṛṣṇa means Jagannātha. Jagat. Jagat means this world, and nātha means master, or proprietor. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: [Bg. 5.29] "I am the proprietor of all the planets." Therefore He is Jagannātha. Jagannātha means the proprietor of all the world, all the planets. So the Vṛndāvana inhabitants went to see Kṛṣṇa because their life was Kṛṣṇa. They did not know anything except Kṛṣṇa. So that was the opportunity. So it was the request of Rādhārāṇī to Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are the same Kṛṣṇa; I am the same Rādhārāṇī. We are meeting, but We are not meeting in the same place. Here You are, just like a royal king with chariots, with soldiers, with Your ministers, secretaries. And there in Vṛndāvana You were a cowherd boy, and We used to meet in the jungles, in the bushes. So I want to take You there. Then I will be happy."

*So that sentiment was expressed by Lord Caitanya, because Lord Caitanya's worship was in the mood of Rādhārāṇī. Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api pura deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau [Cc. Ādi 1.5]. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa philosophy. It is the sublime philosophy and, I mean to say, culture. If you are fort... Those who are fortunate, they have come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Their life is successful. No doubt about it. So this philosophy, that Kṛṣṇa... Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir. The love affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, what is this? Is this a play like the young girl and young boy? Of course. It is just like that. It appears, and actually it is so. But it is not this play of this material world of a young boy and a young girl. No. It is the pastime of the Supreme Lord with His āhlādinī potency. Āhlādinī. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir āhlādinī-śaktir. Just like in this material world there are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Similarly, in the spiritual world there are three, I mean to say, potencies. These qualities are also potencies. Samvit, sandinī, and what is the other? Samvit, sandini...ahlādinī. Samvit, sandinī, āhlādinī. So the āhlādinī potency is Kṛṣṇa. This has been very much scholarly discussed by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. Jīva Gosvāmī presents these love affairs of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā very philosophically. His first question is that Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman. That is accepted by Arjuna in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma, paraṁ brahma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Paraṁ Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth. Now, in this material world there are different features of sense gratification. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa, whether they are a loving affairs or pastimes of this world? That is his question. Just like here young boys and young girls meet together, they try to enjoy life. Whether Kṛṣṇa's līlā, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with the gopīs, is the same thing? No. That is the philosophical presentation. He gives the reason that Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman, but here in this material world we see that parama-brahma, to become attached to Paraṁ Brahman or to realize Paraṁ Brahman, a person, an intelligent person, gives up everything within this world. That is the philosophy of Lord, I mean to...Śaṅkarācārya. He says that this world is false. Paraṁ Brahman is... Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. So cultivate yourself to realize Paraṁ Brahman. And his process is sannyāsa. Give up, renounce this world.

*So Jīva Gosvāmī puts forward this philosophy that if for Paraṁ Brahman realization one has to give up everything material, how Paraṁ Brahman can enjoy something material? This is the question. If for realizing Paraṁ Brahman one has to give up everything material... And practically we are seeing that. Just like Śaṅkarācārya. Their renunciation, their austerity is very, very severe. Śaṅkarācārya will not accept anybody as eligible for advancing in spiritual culture without having accepted the renounced order of life, sannyāsa. First accept sannyāsa, then talk of Absolute Truth. That is Śaṅkara*-sampradāya. We Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya, our process is little different. Although we have nothing to do with this material world, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya gives facility that we can make the best use of this material world. That is the difference between the Śaṅkara philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Śaṅkara philosophy says that this world is false. We Vaiṣṇava philosophers, we say no. This world is not false because it is emanation from the real, the absolute real. How it can be false? It has got its proper use. One who does not know its proper use, for them it is false. They are after something false. But those who know the value of this world... Hari-sambhandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything has got some connection with the Supreme Lord. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything is in connection or has relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is our philosophy. We don't say that this speaker, microphone, is false. Why it is false? The microphone is produced out of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. This matter, this iron, or this wood, that is a production of Kṛṣṇa's energy. If Kṛṣṇa is true, Absolute Truth, then His energy is also true. And anything produced of His energy, that is also truth. But as the energy is utilized for the energetic, similarly anything produced by Kṛṣṇa's energy should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. So we don't say that false. We say reality. Therefore in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we accept everything, but accept everything for service of Kṛṣṇa. Nothing for my sense gratification. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We do not say that "This world is false. Give up." Why? The, our ācāryas, Rūpa Gosvāmī says,

anāsaktasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

*nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe

yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate



*You should not be attached with Kṛṣṇa's property. The karmīs are attached to the Kṛṣṇa's property. They are trying to steal, unlawfully enjoy, Kṛṣṇa's property. That is karmī. And the jñānīs, so*-called jñānīs, out of ignorance trying to renounce Kṛṣṇa's property. The jñānīs, they are very much proud that they are advanced in knowledge and renouncing, but if somebody asks, "Sir, what you are renouncing?" "This world." "All right. When this world became your property that you are renouncing? When this world became your property?" You renounce something which you possess, but if you do not possess something, what is the meaning of your renouncement? You came here empty-handed, you live here for some time and go away. So in the beginning you are not proprietor, and when you go away you are not proprietor. Then what is the meaning of your renouncement? That is the defect. So we don't renounce. We think, we see that everything is given by Kṛṣṇa to us. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. Now, I... Nothing belongs to me, everything Kṛṣṇa's. Even my body, that is also Kṛṣṇa's. My mind, that is also Kṛṣṇa's. My thoughts, my speech, whatever I create, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, and actually, that is the fact.



*So this Jagannātha Ratha*-yātrā is a part of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because Lord Caitanya preached this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement within five hundred years. Of course, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new thing. From Bhagavad-gītā we understand it is five thousand years old, and from Bhagavad-gītā we also understand that it is five million years old. But in the modern age this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, was started by Lord Caitanya, and this Ratha-yātrā is part of this movement. Therefore we have introduced this Ratha-yātrā festival in our society. And the boys and the girls, they are taking it very nicely, and it will go on. So the Lord Caitanya was taking the part of Rādhārāṇī, when Rādhārāṇī requested Kṛṣṇa to come to Vṛndāvana. So when Lord Caitanya was before the Ratha-yātrā, He was thinking that "I am taking Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana." That is His ecstasy. "I am taking Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana."

*So that function is observed yearly, and Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha, goes to that Gundica. So today is Guṇḍicā*-mārjana day. So Lord Caitanya personally used to wash the whole temple along with His assistants. Hundreds of... At that time there was no hose pipe, but people used to bring water in big, big waterpots. So when Lord Caitanya wanted to wash the Guṇḍīca Mandir, the king of Jagannātha Purī, Mahārāja Pratāparudra... He was a great devotee of Lord Caitanya. So it was his open order to his officers that whenever Caitanya Mahāprabhu will ask for anything, it must be immediately supplied. So during this time about... In those days there was no railway facilities five hundred years ago. So people used to go on foot from, especially from Bengal. And because He was staying in Orissa, there were many Oriyan-Gauḍīya. Practically Lord Caitanya's followers are the Bengalis and the Oriyas. They are generally. Because Lord Caitanya appeared in Bengal and resided, He made His residence in Orissa. Naturally, the people of these two provinces became His devotees in large number. And still, in Orissa there are many devotees, as there are in Bengal. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was patronized or... Mahārāja Pratāparudra was very powerful king. He did not allow the Mohammedans to enter into Orissa. He was so powerful. At that time whole India was occupied by the Pathans, but they could not enter in Orissa and South India. So Mahārāja Pratāparudra was very powerful king, and at the same time he was a devotee of Lord Caitanya. So his open order was that whenever and whatever Caitanya Mahāprabhu will ask anything, it must be supplied. So on this day Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to wash that Guṇḍīca Mandir with hundreds of His followers. And they were ordered to bring water from the nearest tank. There is one tank. If you go sometimes to Jagannātha Purī, you'll see that place. So from that tank hundreds of waterpots were brought, and first of all it was... What is called? Sweeping. The sweeping process is first of all taken. And He wanted to see all the devotees, "How much dust you have gathered." He'll see personally. "Let Me see what is the amount of your dust you have gathered by sweep... [break] Then I will understand that you worked very hard." So then after it is very finely, twice. First of all, once swept, then second time. Not even a small particle grain should remain. That was His order. [break]

*Chant. Chant. (kīrtana) (prema*-dhvanī) Within this room, there is no facility for dancing. So on the Ratha-yātrā day we will have good facility for dancing. (devotees shout "Jaya! Hari bol!") Oh, prasādam? Thank you. (Prabhupāda takes some prasādam, then devotees chant as he leaves the temple) (end)



690727RY.SF

*Ratha*-yātrā Lecture at

The Family Dog Auditorium

-

San Francisco, July 27, 1969



Prabhupāda: My dear boys and girls, I thank you very much for joining us on this Rathayātrā ceremony. I am going to sing now an Indian song, and then I shall explain it. Even if you don't understand the language of the song, still, if you kindly hear patiently, the sound vibration will act. The song is (sings)



*śrī*-kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu doyā koro more

*tomā binā ke doyālu jagat*-saṁsāre (etc.)



*The author's name is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. He is singing. He had many songs. We are gradually translating them into English, and we will have them in our paper, Back to Godhead. The purport of this song is, śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu, doyā koro more: "My dear Lord Caitanya, please be merciful upon me."



*śrī*-kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu doyā koro more

*tomā binā ke doyālu jagat*-saṁsāre



*"I do not find anyone as merciful as You are." Yes. Śrī Caitanya Prabhu... You have seen the picture of Lord Caitanya. Yes, it is on the altar, Lord Caitanya dancing. He, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, appeared as a devotee. You have heard the name of Bhagavad*-gītā. In that Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is asking everyone, "My dear sons, God is higher." That is accepted in every religion. Especially in your Christian religion, God is the supreme father. In the Vedas also it is said,



nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām

eko bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kāmān

(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)



The Supreme Absolute, He is also a living entity like us, just like your father, this material father from whom you have got this body, he is also a person, and you are also a person. You are son of your father. Similarly, although you cannot see God, we can understand from the version of the *Vedas* and authoritative scriptures if God is father, then He must be a person. He must be a person because I am person. We have to study by analogy, by our reason, our intelligence. Just like you have got experience in this life that "My father is a person. I am also a person." Although the relation is "I am his son; he is my father," but both of us are persons. None of us is imperson. That is nonsense. How my father can become imperson if I am person? This is nonsense.



*Therefore those who are impersonalists, their knowledge is not yet perfect. They do not know actually what is the situation of their father. The supreme father is a person. It is confirmed in the Vedas, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām: (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) "He is the supreme eternal of all eternals." We are all eternal. Each living entity, they are all eternal. Death means the end of this body. We are dying at every moment as our bodies change. So this death means death of this body, not of the spirit soul. Spirit soul is eternal. God is eternal, and I am His son, you are His son. You are also eternal. But just like particle of gold is still gold, similarly, the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, he is also God. It is said that we are partly God, and He is the Supreme God. That is stated in the Vedas, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām: "He is the supreme eternal amongst all the eternal, and He is the supreme living creature amongst all living creatures." Supreme, that is the difference. The quality of God, the quality of me and you, is the same. Just like a small portion of the ocean water*-if you analyze chemically you will find the same chemical composition. Similarly, as living entity you have got all the qualities of God in minute portion. Therefore He is Supreme. Because we have got all the qualities of God in very minute portions. So He is Supreme. We are subordinate.

*Therefore in the Vedas it is said that the living entities are maintained by the Supreme Lord. That you can understand by your practical experience. There are millions and trillions of living creatures. The human society is only a small portion of this. If you take a portion of a drop of the Pacific Ocean, how many aquatics are there? There are 900,000 species of aquatics. So there are 8,400,000 species of living creatures, and all of them are being maintained by God, the Supreme Lord. We are also being maintained, but because we have become advanced in knowledge, therefore the result is we have forgotten God. This is the result of our education. The more we become advanced in so*-called knowledge, you forget your relationship with God. Actually, that is not knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Those who are atheists, those who are godless, their knowledge is already taken away by māyā. They are so-called men of knowledge, wise men. Actually they are fools, rascals, those who are atheistic." This is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. "Those who are lowest of the mankind..." Nara means man and adhama means lowest. The lowest grade of man denies the existence of God. So as we are forgetting our eternal relationship with God, so we are gradually degraded to the lowest position of living creatures. Our knowledge has no value. Anyone who is atheist, who has no knowledge of God, he has no good qualifications. These are the statements from the scriptures.

*Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu, doyā koro more. So in this age we ask the mercy of Lord Caitanya because we have all forgotten what is our relationship with God. But we have got the dormant love for God. Just like a son and father*-the son may forget, he may become a crazy fellow and go out of home, but that does not mean that his relationship with the father is broken. No. That is not possible. Even if I am a crazy fellow, when the father dies the sons have still the right to inherit the property of the father. The relationship is so strong. Similarly, we may try to forget God due to our craziness, but the relationship cannot be broken, and still God is so kind, He comes Himself, He sends His bona fide servants, He sends his son. In so many ways He is always canvassing, "My dear sons, do not suffer in this abominable condition of material existence. Come back to Me. Come back to home. You enjoy life, eternal life, and blissful life, and life of knowledge." That is God's business. Therefore He is all-merciful. In spite of our being disobedient, in spite of our forgetting, he does not forget. He says, "Whenever there is discrepancy in religious processes, and when there is predominance of irreligiosity..." What is religion and what is irreligion? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, "I come to establish religion," and again He says, "Give up all sorts of irreligion." That means surrendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Any other religion is not religion. That is bogus. We have concocted so many religious principles, but real religion is which teaches to surrender to God, to love God. That is real religion. And we are teaching that. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is no sectarian movement. We don't say that this is Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion. These religions develop in different parts of the world under different conditions. That is simply giving some idea of our relationship with God. But real religion is which teaches how to love God. That is real religion. The first-class religion is that if by following such religious principles you develop your dormant love of God. Then it is first class. And what kind of development? Without any reason. It is not that you go to love God because He supplies bread: "O God, give us our daily bread." No. No exchange. There is no reason why I should ask. "God is great; I am His part and parcel; it is my duty to love Him." When you develop this consciousness, this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So try to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a new thing. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy was taught five thousand years ago. Not only five thousand years*-Bhagavad-gītā is the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and although it was five thousand years ago in our memorable history, but in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that it was spoken some millions of years ago to the sun-god. So apart from that reference, Bhagavad-gītā is eternal because it teaches what is your relationship with God, what is your eternal duty to God, and what is the ultimate end of life. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and the last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is that one has to give up all sorts of rascaldom or concocted religion. Simply one has to surrender to God. That is religion. We have developed this human form of life after passing through many millions of lower grades of life, and similarly we have to now develop this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love of God. If you will take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously, then we have volumes of books to convince you what is your relationship with God, what is your duty, what is your ultimate goal of life-these things are all very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. But unfortunately, so-called scholars and so-called wise men misinterpret the whole thing. That is why the Lord appeared as Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago to establish the correct principles of Bhagavad-gītā, and He showed that even if you do not understand the processes of religion, you simply chant

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



And it is practical. Just like when we were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, all the members who were assembled here were joining in, but when I am now talking about philosophy, some are leaving. It is very practical to see. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is so enchanting that anyone can take part in any condition. And if he continues to chant, gradually he develops his dormant love of God. His heart will be cleansed of all dirty things, and gradually he will be freed from the material concept of life, and he will be joyful, and he will see everyone as sons of God, and then he will begin his loving transcendental service to Kṛṣṇa.



So our only request is that you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is very simple. We are requesting everyone to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and take prasādam. When you are tired of chanting, the prasādam is ready. Immediately you can take prasādam. And if you dance, then all of the bodily exercise is Kṛṣṇized, and all of the attempts of the yoga processes are attained by this simple process. So chant, dance, take prasādam. Even if you do not hear at first this philosophy, it will act, and you will be elevated to the highest platform of perfection.

Thank you very much. (end)



700704AR.SF

*Ratha*-yātrā Arrival Lecture and Press Conference

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San Francisco, July 4, 1970



*(ecstatic kīrtana, prema*-dhvanī)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Madhudviṣa: His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta will now deliver a brief message in regarding the Ratha*-yātrā festival, following which the members of the press will present their questions to His Divine Grace.



*Prabhupāda: My dear boys and girls, I thank you very much for your kindly receiving me to serve you. This Ratha*-yātrā festival is part of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started by Lord Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. Perhaps all of you know the famous book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. In that Bhagavad-gītā, Ninth Chapter, last verse, it is said there, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], mām evaiṣyasi kaunteya. In that verse it was assured by (the) Lord that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "Become My devotee." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "Just worship Me. In this way you will come to Me." Mām evaiṣyasi.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to utilize to the best possible means this human form of life. We are coming to this human form of life in the evolutionary process from aquatics to reptiles, to plants and trees, then birds and beasts, then human form of life. Out of that human form of life, there are many uncivilized form of life, just above the monkeys. But those who are civilized... Civilized means those who are following the instruction of the Vedas, varṇāśrama-dharma. The human society (is) divided into four varṇas and four āśramas. The four varṇas are social division, namely the student life, the householder life, the retired life, and renounced life. These four divisions of social life and four divisions of spiritual life-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha..., brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra*-in this way there are eight divisions. These eight divisions of human society are very scientifically adopted. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. This civilized division of human society is so perfect that one can gradually, from the aquatic life, can go back to home, back to Godhead.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!



*Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the greatest boon to the human form of life. When Lord Kṛṣṇa was present, He advised this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement in the shape of Bhagavad*-gītā. Unfortunately, there are many scholars, academic scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, but because they do not come in the disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa, they misinterpret the real sense of Bhagavad-gītā and mislead the whole human society to the darkest region of ignorance.



So when Kṛṣṇa was present, once upon a time there was a lunar..., solar eclipse. At that time Kṛṣṇa, with His elder brother and sister... His elder brother's name was Balarāma and His younger sister's name was Subhadra. This Subhadra was also wife of Arjuna. So these three brothers and sisters in a chariot came from Dvārakā to Kurukṣetra. At that time the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana... Vṛndāvana... Kṛṣṇa's childhood was spent at Vṛndāvana under the care of His foster father Nanda Mahārāja. So when Kṛṣṇa went to His real father, Vasudeva, at Dvārakā, and came back to Kurukṣetra on this occasion of solar eclipse, the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, who were suffering too much out of separation from Kṛṣṇa, they came to see Him. And at that time His beloved Rādhārāṇī was too much afflicted. She said, "Kṛṣṇa, You are the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rādhārāṇī. But the place is different, Kurukṣetra. It is not Vṛndāvana. Therefore I wish that You come with Me to Vṛndāvana and let Us enjoy Our previous life." This is the ecstasy of the residents of Vṛndāvana.

*Lord Caitanya, when He appeared, He took sannyāsa at the age of twenty*-four years, and by His mother's request He was living at Jagannātha Purī. So every year He was taking part in this car festival of Jagannātha. This Jagannātha Deity was established by one King Indradyumna about more than three thousand years ago. This temple is very old. Even in some literatures of your Christian religion I find that Lord Jesus Christ also went to this Jagannātha temple and lived there for sometimes. Of course, how far it is true, that is to be judged by you, but I have read this information in a Christian book, Aquarian Gospel. So if we take this incidence that Lord Jesus Christ also went to Jagannātha temple, then from historical point of view it is two thousand years old. But it is, according to our calculation, it is more than three thousand years old. So this Indradyumna king, he asked Viśvakarma to carve the deity of Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadra. And there was a time limit. Viśvakarma made an agreement that "Unless I finish the deity's carving very nicely, you cannot see me." So door was closed, and the king was very much anxious to see the temple is established very soon. So he forcibly opened the door, and he saw that the deities were half finished. The Deity Jagannātha as you see, it appears half finished. The king decided, "Never mind it is half finished. I shall install these deities in the temple." Since then, the three deities Jagannātha, Balarāma and Subhadra are being worshiped in India, Jagannātha Purī. Perhaps you know. And the car festival takes place every year, and millions of people go there to participate in that cart, car festival.

So because we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in your country, this car festival and Lord Caitanya's taking part in this is one of the paraphernalia of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And because it revives our consciousness about Kṛṣṇa, it is an easy process for reviving mass Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore if you participate in these car festivals, as it is stated in the scriptures, rathe ca vāmanaṁ dṛṣṭvā punar janma na vidyate... If you kindly see these Jagannātha deities riding on these cars and in procession, and as Caitanya Mahāprabhu chanted the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in front of this car, then according to our Vedic scripture, if you participate in this festival, in your next life you'll go to back, back to home, back to Godhead.

Devotees: (roar) Jaya! All glories to Prabhupāda!



Prabhupāda: So at least I'll request you to come and see this car festival. There is no expenditure, but it is simply joyful. You haven't got to pay anything. You simply come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, dance with us, and when you are tired we shall give you nice prasādam. So on behalf of Kṛṣṇa conscious society I invite you, all boys, girls, ladies, and gentlemen, to take part in this car festival, and I thank you very much.



Madhudviṣa: Now His Divine Grace will answer questions from the members of the press.



Pressman: Prabhupāda, hi. Why do you think...



Prabhupāda: You can sit down.



Pressman: Why do you think a growing number of young Americans are attracted to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?



*Prabhupāda: It is very interesting question. Our, this body is combination of matter and spirit. So we have got some temporary necessities of this body. That is called material necessities. So far your country is concerned, your country is opulent. They have got all supplies of the necessities of the body. Now after this, there is another urge, which is described in the Vedānta-sūtra as brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring about the Supreme Absolute Truth. When one is above material poverty or material necessities of life, the next question is-that is natural-about spiritual. Because we are combination of matter and spirit, so that spiritual inquiry is there. Therefore generally, these boys and girls, they looked to some Indian swami to give them some enlightenment. Unfortunately, perhaps before me all the swamis who came here, they did not give them the right information. Perhaps they did not know it. So I am giving, delivering, the right message of spiritual life, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not manufactured by me or concocted by me. It is the old story, five thousand years. Why five thousands years? If we accept the statement of Bhagavad-gītā, this book of knowledge was first discussed with the sun*-god some millions of years ago, so it is not a new thing. But in due course of time, sometimes it becomes covered. So Lord Caitanya, five hundred years ago, He wanted to give the spiritual knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout the whole world, and He has ordered to every Indian that anyone who has taken birth as a human being in India should preach this transcendental knowledge throughout the whole world. So perhaps previously..., means somebody have preached this Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge, but since 1965 or '66, since I started this movement from New York, generally all the boys and girls, younger section, they are very much kind upon me, and they are coming to me. And I am very glad to have them. I am just training them to the right spiritual standard of life and I am happy they are abiding by them.



Devotees: All glories to Prabhupāda!



Pressman: Prabhupāda, do you have any advice for ordinary Americans?



*Prabhupāda: This is open for everyone, not ordinary or extraordinary. Anyone can come and chant with us and take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Unfortunately, the elderly people, they do not think that it is necessary. That is the difficulty. Rather, we invite not only these boys and girls*-their fathers, their grandfathers. Let all of them come and scrutinizingly study this philosophy. We have got hundreds of books. It is the, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is understandable even by the child and even by the greatest philosopher of the day. Recently I had some talks with Dr. Stahl on this high level understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if philosophers, scientists, thinkers, they come to me, we can convince them how this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is important for the whole human society. Yes.



Madhudviṣa: Any other questions?



Pressman: Do you know...



Prabhupāda: Call, call that gentleman. (pause)



Devotees: Haribol! Prabhupāda! Mercy! Mercy, Prabhupāda!



Pressman: Do you know how many followers there are in the United States now?



Prabhupāda: Unlimited. (devotees roar) Some of them admit and some of them do not admit. That's all. (laughter) Everyone is eternally servant of God, but some of them admit and some of them do not admit. That is the difficulty. But anyone who does not admit, he is servant of somebody. That is a fact. He cannot be master. Everyone is servant. But one who knows that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa," his life is perfect. That's all. Please try to understand this point that everyone is servant. Even your president is servant of the nation. So nobody can say that "I am no one's servant." He is servant, but he does not know that actually he is the servant of the Supreme Lord. That is his ignorance. We are just eradicating this ignorance, that "You are servant, but you admit that you are servant of God. That will make your life successful." That's all. Therefore I say that there are unlimited followers. Some of them admit and some of them do not admit. That is the difficulty. But if anyone comes to me, I shall make him to admit.



Yes. (devotees roar) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all, anyone? Finish?

Madhudviṣa: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Have saṅkīrtana. Or let us go?



Madhudviṣa: We can have a more... All right. Begin kīrtana. (end)





700705RY.SF



*Ratha*-yātrā

-

San Francisco, July 5, 1970



*Prabhupāda: My dear boys and girls, those who have come here, I welcome you on behalf of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared five hundred years ago, and He introduced this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Ratha*-yātrā is one of the item of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Jagannātha, just try to understand Jagannātha. Jagat means the moving world. Gacchati iti jagat, Sanskrit word, gacchati means which is moving. So all these planets, this universe, even the sun, everything is moving, as we are moving... We are, of course, animate. Even inanimate things are moving. Your motorcar moving, your machine is moving, but they are moving under the control of some animate object. But animate objects moving, some of the animate objects are standstill, just like trees, but ultimately they are also moving in this sense: that one species of life is being transmigrated to another species of life. Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means moving. And Jagat-nātha, nātha means the proprietor, master, proprietor. So Jagannātha means the proprietor or the master of all these movements, He is Jagannātha. And Balabhadra, Balarāma, bala means strength and rāma means enjoyment. So Balarāma means who gives you spiritual strength for enjoying eternal blissful life, He is Balarāma. And Subhadrā, su means auspicious and bhadra means well-being. Subhadrā, Jagannātha and Balarāma combined together are present before you to reclaim you all from your miserable condition of life. That is the purport of this Ratha-yātrā Festival. [break] If anyone sees on the cart Jagannātha, Subhadrā, and Baladeva, then he does not take birth again in this material world. Ratheja vamanaṁ dṛṣṭa



So I shall not take much of your time, you are tired. But some of the important things I may inform you, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a religious type; *it is a great culture. It is a great culture for spiritual emancipation. Try to understand that we are in this world*-not only we are; everything is combination of matter and spirit. Just like your body, this body is matter; *but within this body, you, the spirit soul, is encaged or embodied. So anywhere you see, the tree... There are so many species of life, every species, every individual living entity is combination of spirit and matter. When the spirit is out of this body, then the body is matter only. Just like in your Bible also it is said, "Dust thou art, dust thou be*-est." That dust is this body but not this spirit soul. So in this material world we are part and parcel of God, Jagannātha, and we are under the auspicious protection of Subhadrā, and we have got, I mean to say, implicitly the spiritual strength. In the Vedic literature you will find, nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyo. Bala, bala means this Balarāma, the spiritual strength. The spiritual realization can be achieved by the grace of Lord Balarāma.



*So this human form of life is meant for spiritual realization. Please try to understand that this human form of life is a chance to get out of this material entanglement. In other than human life*-animal life, trees life, beast life, birds life, aquatic life-there are so many, 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, this human form of life is a boon wherein you can get out of this material entanglement and, being freed from this material entanglement, you can enter into the spiritual world, the kingdom of God. Yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]. And if you go there, then you haven't got to come back in this material world, which is called duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is the place of miseries as well as temporary. Even if we accept this place, miserable place, you will not be allowed to live here for long. You will have to quit this stage. Therefore it is called aśāśvatam. This is our position. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself says that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. So the human form of life should endeavor how to get out of it.



*In this country especially, in all other countries also, the younger generation are not very satisfied. In your country, they say that the frustrated community, the confused community, the hippies. But I have got all sympathy for these frustrated community, everywhere. They should be frustrated. In the Vedānta*-sūtra it is said that athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life should feel frustration. If he does not feel frustration, then it is animal life. The symptom of human life is that he should be very much pessimistic, not optimistic, of this material world. Then there is path of liberation. And if we think that we are very much happy here, that is called illusion, māyā. Nobody is actually happy here. But if anyone wrongly thinks that he is happy, that is called māyā, illusion.



*So my request to you, those who are feeling frustration, confused, this is a good qualification. Good qualification in this sense: that those who are feeling frustration and confused, they are disgusted with this materialistic way of life. That is a good qualification for spiritual advancement. But if you are not properly guided, then that will be another frustration. That will be another frustration. To save you from that frustration, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has come to your country, Lord Caitanya's movement. A great devotee, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he sings, patita*-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra: "My dear Lord, Your incarnation is to reclaim all kinds of fallen souls." Mo sama patita prabhu nā paibe āra. "But I am the most fallen. Therefore, my claim is first. Because You have advented Yourself to claim all fallen souls, I am the most fallen; therefore You take care of me first."



*So actually, who is a fallen soul? Fallen soul means anyone who has taken birth in this material world, he is a fallen soul, never mind what he is. He may be Brahmā or he may be an insignificant ant. Anyone who is within this material world. Because our constitutional position is spirit soul. Spirit means ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12), by nature joyful, that is spirit. So because we have been put into some awkward position of this material existence, therefore we are... Although constitutionally we are joyful, we do not find anything joyful. Try to understand this point. In this material world, because we have been encaged with this material body, although our endeavor is to become joyful, on account of this encagement of this material body, we are not joyful.



*So in the Vedic literatures, the whole Vedas, there are four Vedas originally-Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva*-and from that Vedas, four Vedas, there are so many Upaniṣads, hundred-and-eight Upaniṣads. And the cream of the Upaniṣads is the Vedānta-sūtra. And the Vedānta-sūtra is very clearly explained by Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this Vedic literature is giving us the help and the clue how we can get out of this miserable condition of life. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the essence or cream of all these Vedic literature. In the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find that vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. By studying all the Vedic literature, you will have to find out Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, rather Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, Lord Caitanya, is so kind that He is giving you Kṛṣṇa in the form of His name. Nāma rūpe kṛṣṇa avatāra. So this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, practically you can see also, Kṛṣṇa, this name Kṛṣṇa and the original Supreme Personality of Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent. If you simply chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you are associating constantly with Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact.



*So my request to you, those who are feeling frustration or confused, please take to this maha*-mantra, chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. When I was coming, I was waiting there to see the procession, so many boys and girls, they are not within our Kṛṣṇa conscious group, they are outsiders, but they are also chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra very feelingly. I was very much satisfied. Therefore my request is, I have specially come to you. I was not very feeling well to come here. But because I have come to San Francisco, I must give you the message. It is very important message. Those of you who are feeling frustration and confused, kindly take to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that's all. You... There is no expenditure, there is no loss. We are not charging anything. It is not a business, that we are asking you to pay something because I am giving this information. No. It is freely distributed. You please chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra twenty-four hours. You can work, you can walk, and at the same time chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.



*So this Ratha*-yātrā Festival is a mass movement for enlightening people to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got many other festivities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got Janmāṣṭamī, Śrī Rāma-navamī, Dola-yātrā, Jhulana-yātrā. So there are twelve months, but we have got twenty-four festivals as big as this Ratha-yātrā Festival. So if you kindly take to them, then as advised by Lord Caitanya, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31], you will always be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no scope of your frustration and confusion. For this purpose especially, I came in this meeting, that you kindly accept this humble instruction that wherever you may be, in whatever position, in whatever condition, you kindly chant these sixteen names [everyone chants], Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Chant again, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Again, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Thank you very much. (end)





710627RY.SF

*Ratha*-yātrā

-

San Francisco, June 27, 1971



*Prabhupāda: When our eyes are anointed with love of God, we can see Him everywhere. That is the injunction of the śāstras. We have to develop our seeing power by developing love of Godhead. Premāñjana*-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. When one is sufficiently developed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can see the Lord every moment within his heart and everywhere, wherever he goes. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt to teach people how to see God, how to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can be seen if we practice. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water.'' Every one of us, we drink water everyday, not only one, twice, thrice or more than that. So as soon as we drink water, if we think that the taste of the water is Kṛṣṇa, immediately we become Kṛṣṇa conscious. To become Kṛṣṇa conscious is not very difficult job. Simply we have to practice it. Just like this is an example how to practice to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Whenever you drink water, as soon as you are satiated, your thirst is quenched, immediately you think that this thirsting, the quenching power is Kṛṣṇa. Prabhāsmi śaśi sūryayoḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the sunshine. I am the moonshine.'' So during daytime, every one of us seeing the sunshine. As soon as you see sunshine, immediately you can remember Kṛṣṇa, "Here is Kṛṣṇa.'' As soon as you see moonshine at night, immediately you can remember, "Here is Kṛṣṇa.'' In this way, if you practice, there are many instances, many examples given in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Seventh Chapter, if you read them carefully, how to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then at that time, when you are mature in love of Kṛṣṇa, you will see Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Nobody has to help you to see Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa will be revealed before you, by your devotion, by your love. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. Kṛṣṇa, when one is in service mood, when one understands that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, or God,'' then Kṛṣṇa help you how to see Him.



*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*Kṛṣṇa says, those who are constantly, twenty*-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service... Just like these students, the member of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, you'll find them twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is the, I mean to say, significance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are always engaged. This Ratha-yatra ceremony is one of the item, so that at least, one day, all of you will be able to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this is only practice, and if you practice throughout your whole life, then at the time of death, if you can fortunately remember Kṛṣṇa, your life is successful. That practice is required. yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. We have to give up this body, that is certain. But at the time of death, if we remember Kṛṣṇa, immediately you are transferred to the abode of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but still Kṛṣṇa has got a special abode, which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. You can understand that our body, body means the senses, and above the senses there is the mind, which is very subtle, which is controlling the senses, and above the mind there is intelligence, and above the intelligence there is soul. We have no information, but if we practice this bhakti-yoga system, gradually we understand what I am. I am not this body. This, generally even big, big scholars, big, big philosophers, scientists, they are also in the concept of this body. Everyone is thinking, "I am the body,'' but that is mistake. We are not this body. Just I explain. Body means the senses, but the senses are controlled by the mind, and the mind is controlled by the intelligence, and the intelligence is controlled by the soul. That you do not know. There is no educational system throughout the whole world how to understand the existence of soul, which is the prime necessity of understanding for the human being. A human being is not meant for wasting his time like animals, simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is animal life. The extra intelligence of human beings should be utilized how to understand "I am... What I am? I am a spirit soul.'' If we understand that "I am spirit soul,"' that this bodily concept of life, which has played havoc in this world... On the bodily concept of life I am thinking "I am Indian,'' you are thinking "American,'' he's thinking something, something. But we are all one. We are spirit soul. We are all eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha.



*So today is a very nice, auspicious day. On this day Lord Kṛṣṇa, when He was present on this earth, He attended a solar eclipse ceremony at Kurukṣetra, and Kṛṣṇa, along with His brother Balarāma, and Subhadra, sister, came to visit the Kurukṣetra field. That Kurukṣetra land is still present in India. If someday you'll go to India you'll find that Kurukṣetra land is there. So this Ratha*-yatra ceremony is performed in commemoration of Kṛṣṇa's visiting Kurukṣetra with His brother and sister. So Lord Jagannātha, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was in ecstasy. He was in the mood of loving spirit like Rādhārāṇī, so He was thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, please come back again to Vṛndāvana.'' So He was dancing before the Ratha-yatra, and you will understand, if you read some of the books published by you..., published by our society. One of the book is known as Teachings of Lord Caitanya. It is very important book. If you want to learn this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have got enough books. You can scientifically and philosophically study. But if you have no inclination to study, if you simply take to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, gradually everything will be revealed unto you, and you will understand your relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

I thank you very much for participating in this ceremony. Now let us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and proceed with Jagannātha Swami. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710627R2.SF

*Ratha*-yātrā

-

San Francisco, June 27, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Jagannātha svāmī nayana*-pathagāmī bhavatu me. (crowd repeats) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (crowd repeats) Thank you very much. Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this great Ratha-yatra festival. I have already explained what is this Ratha-yatra festival. It is in commemoration of a grand visit by Lord Kṛṣṇa along with His elder brother, Balarāma, and His younger sister, Subhadrā, in a solar eclipse ceremony at Kurukṣetra. This occasion is the subject matter of this Ratha-yatra festival. Apart from these historical references in the matter of Ratha-yatra festival, there is another spiritual meaning, that the Lord is situated in everyone's heart, and this body is just like ratha, or car. He is sitting in everyone's heart. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am sitting in everyone's heart.'' Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: [Bg. 15.15] "I am giving everyone the intelligence as well as I am taking away the intelligence from everyone.'' This double work is being done by the Supersoul. In one side He is helping how to realize self, how to realize God, and other side He is helping also to forget God. How is it that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as paramātmā, is doing this double work? The sense is that if we want to forget God, God will help us in such a way that we'll forget God life after life. But if we want to reestablish our relationship with God, from within He will help us in every way.



*This human form of life is a chance for God realization. Without God realization, our life is frustrated. We being part and parcel of God, it is our duty to understand our relationship with God and act accordingly, and then our ultimate goal of life is achieved. The ultimate goal of life is to attain eternal life, full of knowledge and bliss, sac*-cid-ānanda vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Sat means eternal, ānanda means bliss and cit means knowledge. This body is just the opposite. It is not sat. This body is temporary. It is not eternal. This body is full of ignorance. There is practically no knowledge. We do not know, after closing our eyes, we do not know what is happening before our eyes. So our knowledge is always imperfect. And this life is also miserable. It is not at all blissful. Every step, there are three kinds of miserable condition: ādhyātmika, adhibautika, adhidaivika. Ādhyātmika means miseries pertaining to the body and the mind. Adhibautika means miserable condition offered by other living entities. And adhidaivika, natural disturbances. So either of these three, or at least one or two, there must be always present. This is the material condition of life. But as spirit soul, we are sac-cid-ānanda vigraha, part and parcel of sac-cid-ānanda vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Sat means eternal, cit means knowledge and bliss, and ānanda means blissfulness.

*So if we want to have eternal life, full of knowledge and blissfulness, then we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the greatest welfare activities in the human society. We are giving information to every man, without any discrimination of cast, creed, or color, that every human being especially, not only human being, all living entities, including the animals, beasts, birds, trees, aquatics-everyone*-they can achieve to the highest perfection of life by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But especially the extra intelligence of the human being can be utilized to realize Kṛṣṇa. If we don't do that, we are missing a great opportunity. So our request to everyone is to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If anyone wants to understand this philosophy through philosophical angle of vision or scientific angle of vision, we have got immense volumes of books. You can read and try to understand what is this great movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But you can also, without reading books, without taking any trouble, if you simply agree to chant this mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you get the same result. Even a child can join. Actually we have experienced that a child, a dog, an animal, everyone takes part in this movement. During the Lord Caitanya's movement, when He passed through a great forest known as Jharikhaṇḍa... Central India there is a great forest. Along with Him, the tigers, the elephants, the deers, everyone danced and chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It is so nice, and it is so spiritual, the very vibration will immediately enthuse your ecstasy in spiritual consciousness.

*Please, therefore, take to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. There is no loss. There is no expenditure. We don't charge anything. We have arranged this Ratha*-yatra festival by begging from door to door. Although we have no means, but still we are executing this function for the benefit of the people in general. Please take advantage of this spiritual movement and make your life blissful and perfect. If you miss this opportunity, you do not know what you are going to have next life. Do not think that there is no next life. Next life, every moment we are changing our body. You know that when your body was a baby, that body was very small. Now that body is no longer there. When you were a boy there was another body. That body is no longer there. Now you are young man there is another body, and when you'll become old man like me, you'll have another body. This means that we are changing bodies in every moment, every second, imperceptibly, but I, the spirit soul, exist in all circumstances. Therefore it is natural to conclude that after leaving this body I shall have another body. That's a fact. That is Vedic truth. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. The example is given that as we change our dresses; *similarly, we are changing our dresses from one body to another. We have changed dresses as aquatic animals, as many fishes and aquatic animals as there are in the sea, then we are change bodies as creepers, plants and trees for many, many years. Then we change our bodies in the insect life, reptiles life, then we are change our bodies in three..., thirty hundreds of thousands of beasts, then we have got this human form of life. That is also an evolution through many uncivilized form of human life. Now this civilized form of human life, with higher intelligence and consciousness, it is meant for God realization. It is not meant for utilizing as the animals waste their time simply for eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not our business. That is part of our business so far the body is concerned. But as spirit soul, our main business is to understand what I am, wherefrom I have come, where I shall go, why I am under the tribulation of threefold miseries of material condition. These questions must be answered. If we do not question, just like live like animal... The animal cannot question, neither they can understand the answer, but the human form of life they can question and understand the answer also. In the Vedānta*-sūtra it is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring about the Supreme. So that is our prerogative. Please take chance of this human body and try to understand yourself and cleanse your heart from the dirty things by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710701LE.LA

*Ratha*-yātrā

-

Los Angeles, July 1, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Veṇum means flute. Kvāṇantam, playing on flute. So this Kṛṣṇa's flute is not our imagination. It is in the Vedic literature. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is, He likes to play on flute. Just like here in this material world also, there are many boys who like to play on flute. Wherefrom this flute*-playing idea came? That answer is given in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. All ideas, everything is coming from Him, from Kṛṣṇa. Unless there is in Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be anything in this material world. Janmādy asya yataḥ. Just like janma, your, somebody's birth from father or mother. So the symptoms of the father and mother, the facial expressions, even a spot in the face, everything becomes manifested in the child. So you can study what is God by studying yourself. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. They take it in a different way that "I am God, reflection." God, they say, God reflection. No. We are reflection. God is not our reflection; we are God's reflection.



So if we actually meditate upon our own constitution, then why we should conclude that God is impersonal? I am person. I am individual. I have got my individual opinion. I do not agree with others. Why? Because I am individual. You do not agree with me, I do not agree with you. Why? Because we are all individuals. So why God should be not individual? He is also individual. That is the statement in the *Vedas*.

nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām

eko bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kāmān

(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)



Nitya, nitya means eternal. We are eternal form. We change our body. We don't die. As we are changing daily, every moment changing body, so the final change means accept another body. This is also accepting another body, but imperceptibly. The change is so quick. Just like in the cinema spool there are so many pictures changing, but it is changing so quickly that we are seeing one picture moving. So that is our ignorance. But actually there are thousands of pictures changing in a moment, and you see that one picture is moving. Why do you not study in this way? Similarly, every second, our body is changing, just like spool, one after another, one after another, one after another. But I am... The spirit soul is there, just like the cinema spool is changing, but the seer is there. That is one, although the pictures are changing. Similarly, we are nitya. Nitya means eternal. And we are nitya. Then why God should be dead? They say, "God is dead." And what is foolishness? You are part and parcel of God, you are living, you are existing, and why the original soul should be dead?



*So these are our foolishness. Meditation means to think over all this subject matter very intelligently, not like a rascal, that "If I am person, why God should be imperson? If I am eternal, why God should be dead?" This is meditation, to study diligently. If I have got an instinct to love others, so why God shall not, God will not have this instinct to love others? If I have got attraction for the opposite sex, why God should not have? Why He should not be attracted by Rādhārāṇī? Very simple truth. And why Rādhārāṇī should not be attracted by Kṛṣṇa? But the difference is: here everything is false. False means the attraction is not real attraction. But there the attraction is real. Here I am attracted with a boy, with a girl*-after six months, finished. Because there are so many defects, therefore the attraction does not exist. It is all defective. This body is false, false in the sense it is an imitation. Just like you see one idol in the dress shop, very nice girl standing, but it is a false; *similarly, this body made of material elements is not our real body. False. Similarly, the girl's body is false. Therefore, because false, the so*-called love and attraction is also false. Therefore our so-called love breaks. There is no love here. It cannot be. There cannot be any love. This is... That tendency is there, but due to this material contamination, lust is going on in the name of love. Actually it is lust.

*So we should discriminate between lust and love. Love cannot be accepted unless it is reposed in Kṛṣṇa. That is love. And all other, everything, that is lust. It appears to be similar, but love and lust, there is so much difference of value. Just like gold and iron. Gold and iron. Real love is gold, and the so*-called love, or lust, is iron. How you can evaluate gold and iron on the same level? It is not possible. So you have to learn real love. That is how to love Kṛṣṇa. Our whole process is training people how to love Kṛṣṇa. Just like this temple. For Kṛṣṇa we are all engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, nice throne, Kṛṣṇa nicely dressed. But the atheist will say, "These people are foolish. They have taken a brass idol, and they are engaged." That is false. Actually, we are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. We are dressing Kṛṣṇa directly. We are offering flower, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has kindly accepted the arca-mūrti incarnation to be handled by me. Otherwise just like Arjuna saw the virata-mūrti, the universal form of Kṛṣṇa. He was tremble; he was afraid. He requested Kṛṣṇa, "Please become again just like my friend. This is very fearful." Yes.

*So Kṛṣṇa, because He is all*-powerful, Parabrahman... Parabrahman means the bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. Aṇor aṇīyāṁ mahato mahīyān. Aṇu. Aṇu means particle. We have got idea, atom. Kṛṣṇa can enter into the atom also. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu cayāntara-stham. Paramāṇu means atom. Kṛṣṇa can become so big that many universes can be put into his mouth. Just like Yaśodā-mā, mother Yaśodā. He (she) wanted to check, "Whether You have eaten dirt? Show me Your face, mouth." As soon as Kṛṣṇa opened mouth, "Oh," Yaśodā-mā said, "all the universes are within." So Yaśodā-mā, out of affection, she thought, "Oh, this is something puzzling. All right, close your..." (laughter) That's all. That is God. He... "Mother, you want to see whether there is some dirt within My mouth? You see the whole universal dirts are within Me." That is called mahato mahīyān. Within that mouth, He exhibited all the universes. How it is possible? Yes, it is possible. Just like in the globe we see the whole world. Here is America, here is Russia, here this, here this. That is possible. It is a process only, to understand the process. Similarly, to understand God, it requires a process. You have to know the process, a secret process. That is bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Kṛṣṇa says, only through devotional service you can understand Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, to understand God, Kṛṣṇa, is not very difficult. It is very easy. He becomes revealed to the devotees.

*So there is no difficulty. Simply we have to become sincere devotee. Our service must be very sincere and authentic under the direction of authority. Then you will understand God. There is no difficulty. Teṣām aham anukampārtham. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, teṣām evānukampārtham [Bg. 10.11]. Teṣām. Teṣām means not ordinary person. Those who are devotees, sincere devotees, to show them a special favor... God is kind to everyone, but He is specially kind to His devotees. That is His special. He is kind to everyone. Otherwise how everyone is eating? Nobody is starving. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Eka, that one eternal being, He is supplying everyone's necessities. And the plural number of eternals, they are dependent on that one. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.

*So we have to study Vedas through authoritative sources. We have to follow the rules and regulations. Then, in this life, we shall be able to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you are liberated immediately. There is no doubt about it. Because without being liberated, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad anantaram. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that first of all you have to become liberated. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ, identification with Brahman. That is liberation. Now we are identifying with this matter, material elements. Everyone is illusioned. "I am this body; *therefore I am American." "Therefore I am Indian." "Therefore I am this." "Therefore I am that." Everyone. This is called jīva*-bhūtaḥ, ignorance. And as soon as one becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ, he understands. Prasannātmā. "Oh, I am neither American nor this, nor that. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is brahma-bhūtaḥ, simply to change the consciousness. At the present moment our consciousness is material. I am identifying with matter. The same thing, consciousness, when changed, you identify with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's interest, then you are liberated.

Thank you. [break] Is that all right? Or if there is any question, you can make question. Yes.

*Devotee: Prabhupāda, can you explain a little more about Ratha*-yātrā? Anyone who takes part in Ratha-yātrā, are they liberated?



Prabhupāda: Certainly.



Devotee: Does that mean they will not take birth again?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, provided they take it seriously. Otherwise, if they keep their mentality differently, then according to mind, one has to get a body. But... Just like so many boys. They come here in the beginning out of curiosity, but gradually, they get the chance of becoming devotee. Similarly, if they take the chance, then they will be liberated. They come out of curiosity, but if they take it seriously, then they will be liberated. Just like hospital is meant for curing disease. So one should take the treatment. If he simply goes and visits the hospital and thinks "Now I am cured," how it can be done? Hospital is a... Suppose if I advertise that "Anyone who comes to this hospital, he will be cured of his disease," that's a fact. But if he thinks that "I have come here. Now I am going," then how he will be cured? To see Jagannātha on the Ratha*-yātrā, his way for liberation is open, but if he comes back again and entangles himself, then? One goes to the doctor. He gives injection. The disease is cured. But again he comes back and does the same thing so that he develops this disease again. So whose fault it is? This is called hasti-snāna. Hasti-snāna. The elephant takes bath very nicely, and as soon as comes on the bank of the river or the lake, he takes dust and throws it over body again. If we do that, then we shall remains always dirty. You go, take bath, cleanse, but don't take dirt again. That is not going on. They become immediately mukta, liberated, but they come, again becomes entangled. If it is a fact seeing Jagannātha is mukta, that's all... He becomes mukta. But if he again comes to māyā, then who can check him? Just like you are all on the path of liberation, but if you again come back to māyā, then where is your liberation? Why Jagannātha in the ratha here? If somebody comes here and sees his path for liberation is open... Now he should protect himself. Just like disease, fever is subsided. Now one should be careful not to relapse the fever. That care is in my hand, everyone's hands. And if you become prone to be relapsed again, then again the same thing. Just like in Christian church they confess. Of course, that is the injunction. That's all right. After confessing, the sins are excused. That's a fact. But if he comes back, again commits the same, then where is the effect? But they are happy in that way. They are... "After one week, I shall go to the church and confess my sins. Then everything will be neutralized." This is all right. Suppose on Sunday you become free from all contamination of your sinful activities. And Monday you again do the same thing. So you become again contaminated. And, say, on Tuesday if you die, then you are dying with sins. Is it not? Then what is your condition? If the God or Christ excused you of your sinful life, that's all right. But when you come back, you don't commit again sin. Then you are all right. But we have taken it as a business that we go to Sunday, neutralize our sins, and come back again and do the same thing. So from logical point of view, suppose you do the same sinful activities, and if you die immediately, then you die with sinful activities, go to hell. What benefit you derive by confessing in the church? This business is going on. "Now I have seen Jagannātha. My liberation is guaranteed. Now I can do anything." That's all. This mentality. This mentality will not give you liberation. You have seen Jagannātha, your sinful activities are now neutralized, but don't commit again. Now make progress. Then your liberation is guaranteed. Is it clear?



*Nāmnāṁ balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. In every initiation we teach this, that chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, once chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, is sufficient to make us pure from all sinful activities, reaction. But if we commit sin again in the hope that "Because I am chanting, this will be neutralized," that is the greatest sin. So one side, you should chant always Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra so that you may not fall down; *another side, you should be careful: "Now no illicit sex life, no intoxication, no meat*-eating." In this way, if you carefully make progress, then your liberation is guaranteed. Just like doctor. If you go to a doctor for treatment of a disease, he gives you medicine; at the same time, he prohibits you, "Don't do this." So you take medicine and don't do this. Follow this instruction. You are cured, guaranteed. But if you don't follow the "don't do this," and don't take the medicine regularly, then how you can expect cure? It may be, but it will take long time. But if you want quick, take it seriously. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. In six months he saw God, in six months. That is possible. You follow? (aside:) Stop. I shall say. So if we don't follow the regulative principle and the instruction, then our liberation will be delayed. Otherwise it is guaranteed.

Devotee: How do you develop this seriousness if you find that you are always frivolous?



*Prabhupāda: Seriousness? If you become serious then you become, develop seriousness. If you are fickle, then how you can develop seriousness? Therefore the injunction is: yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. You should be very serious to abide by the orders of the spiritual master. Then you are serious. If you think that "Spiritual master is a man like me. Why shall I follow his instructions so strictly?" then you are not serious. Then what is the use of your being initiated? This is seriousness. And we are singing daily, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. What is the meaning of this?



Karandhara: "By the mercy of the spiritual master, one receives the mercy of Kṛṣṇa."



Prabhupāda: So if you don't follow the spiritual master, then how you can get his mercy? Mercy is always there, but if you don't take it, then what spiritual master or his father will do? You have to take it. That is seriousness. Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura said that "The order of my spiritual master is my life. I do not know whether I get liberation or not. That is not my business. My business is to carry out the order of my spiritual master." Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura said. If one is serious on this point, then he is serious. First of all we have to approach a spiritual master who is actually a spiritual master, and then, if we carry the orders of spiritual master, then everything is guaranteed. The same example: First of all you find out a right physician, and you put yourself under his treatment, follow his instruction, and the disease is cured. But if you go to a false physician or if you are false, then the result will not take place.



So ārati will be performed now?

*Karandhara: About forty*-five minutes.



Prabhupāda: So I can go?



Karandhara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





720713RY.LON

*Ratha*-yātrā

-

London, July 13, 1972



Prabhupāda:



...nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for you coming here and participating in this great movement known as Hare Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana movement. This saṅkīrtana movement was started five hundred years ago by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu in India, in the state West Bengal, in the district of Nadia. His mission was that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, or God consciousness, should be spread all over the world. As many town and villages as there are on the surface of the globe, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement would be spread all over. His prediction is now being carried out by some of the devotees. And you may kindly take advantage of this movement.



*The purpose of this movement is to cleanse the heart. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. We have created so many problems in our life simply on the platform of misunderstanding. Therefore this movement is meant for cleansing the misunderstanding of the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. What is that misunderstanding? The misunderstanding is that we are accepting this material body as the self. We are all living entities, spirit souls, encaged in this material body. We are transmigrating from one body to another. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and this human form of life is the greatest opportunity for self-realization. Self-realization means to know that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul. I am part and parcel of God." You have... Most of you must have read Bhagavad-gītā. In the Fifteenth Chapter it is said that the living entities are part and parcel of God. God is by nature joyful. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said about the Supreme Absolute Truth, as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), by nature joyful. Therefore, as we are part and parcel of God, our aim of life is joy. We are searching after that joyfulness within this material world, but that is not possible. Just like a fish, if it is taken from the water and put on the land, in any condition the fish will never feel joyfulness. Similarly, we are spirit souls. Somehow or other, we have come in contact with this material world. Therefore in this material world we cannot have joyfulness. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. This material world is not befitting our spiritual self. Spiritual self requires spiritual joy. That is beyond these material senses. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for clearing or cleansing or purifying the senses. As soon as we purify our senses, then actually we can enjoy our spiritual sense enjoyment.

*In the material covering, the senses are not properly being used. The enjoyment which you are now having, it is simply a perverted reflection of our spiritual self. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for purifying our senses. In the Vedic literatures it is said, sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When we become free from the designation, at that time we become spiritually purified. At the present moment, on account of our ignorance, or in ignorance of our self-realization, we are thinking in relationship with this body. I am born in India, so I am thinking, "I am Indian." You are born in England; *therefore you are thinking Englishmen. Or other is thinking some other thing. But actually, we are neither Indian, nor Englishmen, nor Japanese, or nor German. We are spirit soul, part and parcel of God. Therefore that is self*-realization. Unless we realize our self, all activities that we are enacting, this is meant for our defeat.

*Therefore, practically we see that in spite of advancement of education, in spite of economic development, in spite of so many philosophical speculations, we are in the same problematic atmosphere. That is the defect of the present civilization, because they do not know what we are. We are spirit soul. So we must realize. That is... If we want to realize, everything explained in the Vedic literature, which is summarized in the Vedānta*-sūtra and later on in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And five thousand years, the Lord Himself, Lord Kṛṣṇa, spoke the philosophy or the knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are publishing all these literatures translated into English. If you want to read them, if you want to understand this scientific, spiritual movement through your scientific knowledge, philosophical speculation, we have got dozens of books. You can read them and you can understand them. Otherwise, it is very simple method. You can simply chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. It is only sixteen words:

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



*So there is no expenditure. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, there is no loss on your part, neither we are charging anything. We are distributing this mahā*-mantra free of charges, and anyone can chant. There is no difficulty. We are spreading this movement all over the world. Not only in your country-whole of America, whole of Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand. Everywhere. We have got one hundred branches all over the world. And there is no difficulty. Even in Africa, the Africans are also chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.



*So our only request is that in whatever condition you may be, it doesn't matter, please try to chant these sixteen words if it is possible, whenever you have got time. You have got enough time. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra when you are walking on the street, when you are traveling in the bus, or when you are sitting alone. There is no loss, but the gain is very great. Therefore our only request is that you take this mahā*-mantra,

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



*And we shall periodically remind you by such functions as we are holding today, the Ratha*-yātrā festival. This Ratha-yātrā festival is very old. At least for 5,000 years. Lord Kṛṣṇa along with His elder brother Balabhadra, or Balarāma, and His sister Subhadrā came in a chariot from Dvārakā to Kurukṣetra. We are commemorating this arrival of Lord Kṛṣṇa with His family on this chariot. This function is held in Jagannātha Purī. Mostly you know. In India it is a great festival. And we are introducing this festival in the Western countries along with Hare Kṛṣṇa movement because the original progenitor of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, namely Lord Caitanya, He took very much active part in this Ratha-yātrā festival. So following His footsteps, we are also introducing this Ratha-yātrā festival in the Western countries. Simultaneously as it is being observed in London, it is being held in San Francisco, Buffalo, and...



Devotees: Melbourne, Tokyo.



*Prabhupāda: Melbourne, Tokyo, and many other places. And India also, in Calcutta also. So this festival, taking part in these festivals means a step forward for our self*-realization. Rathe ca vāmanaṁ dṛṣṭvā punar janma na vidyate. Simply by seeing the Lord on the chariot, one makes advancement for stopping the repetition of birth and death.



*So I am very glad that you have taken so much trouble to come here. Now will you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra along with the devotees and take part in honoring the prasādam? The prasādam is also one of the programs. Our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is standing on three principal things: chanting, dancing, and eating prasādam. It is not very difficult. It is very enjoyable to chant, dance, and take prasādam. And if you like, you can hear a little philosophy of this movement. Or even if you do not understand the philosophy, even you do not read the books, simply if you take part in these three things, chanting, dancing, and taking part in eating the prasādam, your life will gradually progress in spiritual advancement of life. And if you continue this, then some day will come, even in this life it may come, that you will understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, then after leaving this body you go back to home, back to Godhead, directly (?). This is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā... Lord Kṛṣṇa says,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's appearance, Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, Kṛṣṇa's activities. This Rathayātrā is one of the activities of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore to take part in the Rathayātrā festival means to associate with Kṛṣṇa directly. So in this way, if we associate with Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's qualities, Kṛṣṇa's form, then, gradually, we transcend this material existence. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If we simply try to understand about Kṛṣṇa's movement, then the result is, Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ: we have to give up this body. But if we give up this body after being elevated into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Then, after giving up this body, you haven't got to accept another material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Then where shall I go? Kṛṣṇa says, mām eti: "He comes to Me."



*There is planet beyond this material sky. There is another sky. That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another sky, which is eternal. This sky is temporary. Just like your body, my body, or anything in this material world, they are temporary. They have got a date of birth, and they grow, they stay, they produce some by-products, then dwindle, and then vanishes. That is material nature. But there is another nature, which is called spiritual nature. Even when everything is annihilated, that nature stands. So that spiritual nature, or spiritual sky, is described in the Vedic literature, in the Upaniṣads, that there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonshine, there is no need of electricity. That is another sky. So our only business is to transfer ourself from this sky to that sky, that illuminating sky. That is the Vedic injunction. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaya: "Don't remain in this darkness, in this world of darkness. Come to the world of light." So this movement is very important movement. We are trying to educate people how to transfer one from this world of darkness to the world of light, which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. So I am very much thankful to you that you have given me your time. So we have got our books; our devotees are preaching. Take advantage of this opportunity and make your life successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Haribol! (end)





720713R2.LON

*Ratha*-yātrā

-

London, July 13, 1972



Revatīnandana: The spiritual master who has founded this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will address in just a few minutes. Then we'll begin the procession to Trafalgar Square.



Devotees: Haribol!



*Prabhupāda: Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this festival, Ratha*-yātrā festival. This festival is coming down since five thousand years when Lord Kṛṣṇa, along with His elder brother Balarāma and His younger sister Subhadrā, all together in a chariot came from Dvārakā to Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetra is still existing, and the Dvārakā, the city, is also still existing. So according to Vedic culture, when there is eclipse, lunar eclipse, people take bath in sacred rivers. So especially they go to Kurukṣetra, a pilgrimage. So Kṛṣṇa along with His family members, brother and sister, came to Kurukṣetra, and receiving this news, the gopīs and inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, where Lord Kṛṣṇa lived in His childhood, they came to see Him. So amongst the gopīs, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī was the chief. And when she saw Kṛṣṇa in Kurukṣetra in all opulence, She said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are also here; I am also here. But We are missing Vṛndāvana. So I wish that You come along with Me again in Vṛndāvana and We enjoy in the forest of Vṛndāvana."



*These feelings of separation was preached by Lord Caitanya. So this Ratha*-yātrā festival is still observed in Jagannath Purī in India. And five hundred years ago Lord Caitanya participated in this festival, and He was in the mode of separation as if Rādhārāṇī was taking back Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana. So this Ratha-yātrā festival is a feeling festival for the Vaiṣṇavas. Lord Caitanya taught us how to feel separation of God. Lord Caitanya never taught us that He had seen God, but He felt the separation of God very severely. Similarly, His next disciples, the Sad-Gosvāmīs, they also prosecuted their devotional service by separational feelings.

*he rādhe vraja*-devike ca lalite he nanda-suno kutaḥ

*śrī*-govardhana-kalpa-pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ

*ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja*-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*So this Ratha*-yātrā festival is very nice, feelings festival for the Vaiṣṇava. And anyone who is participating in this festival, he'll gradually develop his dormant love for Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much for your kindness.



Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! Jaya! (end)





750712RY.PHI

*Ratha*-yātrā

-

Philadelphia, July 12, 1975



Prabhupāda: Ladies and gentlemen, first of all I wish to thank you, the inhabitants of this great city, Philadelphia. You are so kind, enthusiastic, in taking part in this movement. So I am very much obliged to you. I am especially obliged to the American boys and girls who are helping me so much in spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western countries. I was ordered by my spiritual master to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western countries. So in 1965 I first came in New York. Then in 1966 this society was regularly registered in New York, and from 1967 this movement is regularly going on in America, Europe, Canada, and south of Pacific Ocean, Australia, and throughout the whole world.



*So I may inform you little about this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa, this word, means all*-attractive. Kṛṣṇa is attractive to every living entities, not only human being, even the animals, birds, bees, trees, flowers, fruits, water. That is the picture of Vṛndāvana. This is material world. We have no experience of the spiritual world. But we can get an glimpse idea, what is spirit and what is matter. Just try to understand the difference between a living man and a dead body. The dead body means as soon as the living force within the body is gone, then it is dead matter, useless. And so long the living force is there, the body is very important. So as we experience in this body, there is something as dead matter and something as living force, similarly, there are two worlds: the material world and the spiritual world. We living entities, every one of us, we belong to the spiritual world. We do not belong to the material world. Some way or other, we are now in contact with this material world and material body, and the business is that although we are eternal living force, on account of our contact with this material body, we have to take four tribulations: birth, death, disease and old age. That we have to undergo. In this material world we are getting one type of body, and it is ended at a certain stage. Just like any material thing. You take, for example, of your dress. You are dressed with a certain type of garment, but when it is worn out, no more usable, then you throw it, you get another dress. So this material body is the dress of the spirit living force. But because we are attached to this material world, we want to enjoy this material world, we get different types of body. It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā as a machine. Actually it is machine, this body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmāyān sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



So we living entity, we desire. "Man proposes; *God disposes." God is very kind. Whatever you desire, He will fulfill. Although He says that "This kind of material desires will never satisfy you," but we want. Therefore God supplies us, Kṛṣṇa, different types of body to fulfill our different desires. This is called material, conditional life. This body, change of body according to desire, is called evolutionary process. By evolution we come to the human form of body through many other millions bodies. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. We pass through 900,000 species of form in the water. Similarly, two million forms as plants, trees. In this way, by nature's way, nature brings us into this human form of life just to develop or awaken our consciousness. Nature gives us the chance, "Now what do you want to do? Now you have got developed consciousness. Now you again want to go to the evolutionary process, or you want to go to the higher planetary system, or you want to go to God, Kṛṣṇa, or you want to remain here?" These options are there. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṛn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājīno 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Now make your selection. If you want to go to the higher planetary system, you can go. If you want to remain here, in the middle planetary system, you can do so. And if you want to go to the lower planetary system, that you can do. And if you want to go to God, Kṛṣṇa, that also you can do. It is up to your option. Therefore, what is the difference between this material world, maybe in the higher planetary system or in the lower planetary system, and what is the spiritual world? The spiritual world means there is no material consumption. Everything is spirit, as I told you. The trees, the flowers, the fruits, the water, the animals*-everything is spiritual. So there is no annihilation. It is eternal. So if you want to go to that spiritual world, then you can have this opportunity now in this human form of life, and if you want to remain in this material world, you can do so.



So our movement is that "Why not stop this material, conditional life, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease?" This is intelligence. "Why should we remain in this material body and undergo repetition change of body? Let us have our original, spiritual body." That is wanted. That is intelligence. The human life is therefore meant, as it is stated in the Vedānta philosophy, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now this life is meant for enquiring about the Absolute Truth." So that is required. That is human intelligence. And if we spoil our life like the animals... They are also eating; we are also eating. They are also sleeping; we are also sleeping. They are also having sex intercourse; we are also having sex intercourse. They are also defending; *we are also defending. These four principles are common to the human being and to the animal. The special advantage of human being is that if he likes, he can stop this repetition of birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people about this science, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. It is not a so*-called religious movement. Of course, anything which has connection with God, you can take it as religious movement. But it is very scientific movement. For the big scientists, philosophers, thinkers, they should try to understand this movement. We have got fifty-seven books for convincing the philosophers, scientists. If you want to know the value of this movement through science, philosophy, we have got enough ingredients to supply you. Otherwise, it is simple, very simple. Simply chant this mantra,

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



*Then everything will be manifest to you. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means cleansing the core of your heart. Because our heart or mind or consciousness is now covered with so many dirty things. So if we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then these dirty things will be cleansed. Then we shall be able to see "What I am, what is my position, what is my goal of life, what I have to do." This is human consideration. The dogs, cats, they cannot do that. But a human being, they can do it very nicely.



*So on account of this, you will find that these young men, not only from your country but in other countries also, in Africa, in Australia, in Canada, in Europe, in Asia*-everywhere-as soon as they are understanding this philosophy, they are joining this movement. And it is not very difficult. We don't charge anything for selling Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We are chanting everywhere. That you saw, this Ratha-yātrā. Now, our only means is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And these thousands of men are following simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So you can understand what is the potency of this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We do not pay anything, you ladies and gentlemen, to follow us. But we simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is very potential. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a great ācārya of Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, he has sung, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, or chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is not anything material. Therefore you will never feel tired chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see practically. You go on chanting twenty-four hours; *you will never feel tired. Therefore it is said, golokera prema*-dhana. This chanting vibration is coming from the spiritual world. Just like you receive material sound vibration in the radios or television from distant place, there is another machine which can receive the vibration in the spiritual world. So that vibration is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

*golokera prema*-dhana, hari-nama-saṅkīrtana,

rati nā janmilo kene tāy



*"Oh, I am so unfortunate that I did not get any attachment for chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Saṁsāra*-dāvānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale. The saṁsāra, this material world, is very uncomfortable place. Everyone is always full of anxiety. However rich you may be, however powerful you may be, but the anxiety must be there. You can understand, your president Nixon, how much anxiety he had when all people wanted him to come down. So this material world means in whichever position you may be situated, it doesn't matter. It is full of anxiety. This is called blazing fire, always burning the heart. So if you want to get relief from this uncomfortable position of anxiety, then you must take to this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is our request. You can try for it and you will see the practical result. It will not cost you anything; there is no loss about it.



*So our only request is, with folded hands and begging you, so many flatterings, we simply request... Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ pādayor nipatya. This is our process. We are not very violent pushing. Now, you see our procession came, so many, for three hours. There was no violence. And the police department of your country, they very much appreciate because they have got experience whenever there is some procession, there is violence. "Window*-breaking crowd," they say. But these people are not win-breaking crowd. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... You have already accepted it, this movement, your so many young men. So we request. This is another occasion to invite you. So our only request is that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you will feel very much happy. There will be no anxiety. And then you can do your work. It doesn't matter what you are doing. But chanting of this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will make you more and more happy, free from material anxieties, and if we continue this process, then everything will be clearly understood about spiritual life, and very easily we shall be able to go back to home, back to Godhead.

Now, this occasion I may explain little bit. Here you see Jagannātha and Balarāma and Subhadrā. They are Kṛṣṇa and His elder brother and His sister, Subhadrā. There is a place in India about ninety miles north of Delhi. You have heard the name of New Delhi. The place is named Kurukṣetra. It is accepted as the holy place, pilgrimage. People still gather there, especially during the eclipse, solar and lunar eclipse. So there was once, five thousand years ago, there was a solar eclipse, and all people, from all parts of India, they came to Kurukṣetra, and Kṛṣṇa at that time was prince at Dvārakā, He also came with His elder brother and sister. Kṛṣṇa in His childhood, He was raised as the foster son of Mahārāja Nanda and mother Yaśodā in Vṛndāvana. Then, when He was grown up... You will find this history in the Kṛṣṇa book. So the incidence is that Kṛṣṇa was the beloved personality in Vṛndāvana. So when He left Vṛndāvana, all the people there, they were very, very unhappy. So when Kṛṣṇa came to Kurukṣetra from Dvārakā with His brother and sister, these people in Vṛndāvana, they got news that Kṛṣṇa is coming there. Vṛndāvana is about the same distance. Kurukṣetra is greater distance. Anyway, they came to see Kṛṣṇa out of their love. And the most beloved personality, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, She was requesting Kṛṣṇa that "You are the same Kṛṣṇa. I am the same Rādhārāṇī. But the place is not the same. You are here in Kurukṣetra in royal opulence, and we are coming from the village. So if You again please come to Vṛndāvana." This was Rādhārāṇī's request. And it is very ecstatic feeling. Those who are advanced devotee, they can enjoy.

*So we observe this incidence annually in as many places in the Western countries. At the present moment we hold this ceremony in London, San Francisco, Chicago, Philadelphia, and where else? Buffalo, Melbourne, yes. So this is a very feeling festival. So I thank you very much. You have come here. And try to understand our philosophy. You are all educated boys and girls. We have got fifty*-seven books. Try to read, and try to understand. And take it very seriously, and you will be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



760718RY.NY

*Ratha*-yātrā

-

New York, July 18, 1976



*Prabhupāda: ...served five thousand years ago at Kurukṣetra. In India there is still that place, Kurukṣetra, and religious men go there especially on the occasion of solar eclipse. So recently there was solar eclipse. Still, many millions of Indian population gathered there. Those who have gone to India might have seen this holy place, Kurukṣetra. There is a railway station also of the name Kurukṣetra, and it is a vast field. The Battle of Kurukṣetra took place also during Lord Kṛṣṇa's time, and the Bhagavad*-gītā is the product in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. So this ceremony..., Kṛṣṇa, with His elder brother Balarāma and His younger sister Subhadrā, visited in this chariot at Kurukṣetra, and we are observing this festival. Formerly one king of the name Indradyumna, he started the temple of Jagannātha in Orissa at Purī. Perhaps some of you who have gone there, they know there is a very, very old temple, according to modern calculation, not less than two thousand years old. There is the Jagannātha Deity. The King was very much anxious to establish a temple of Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadrā, but there was a contract between the sculptor and the King that the sculptor would go on working in closed door and the King should not disturb him. But when many days passed the King felt, "What this worker is doing?" So he forcefully opened the door, and he saw that the sculptor could not finish the Deity. So this form of Jagannātha, Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadrā, was unfinished. They were going under construction, carving, but the King forcibly opened the door. Therefore the King said, "I shall worship this unfinished Deity. Never mind." So this Jagannātha you see in this form because King Indradyumna wanted to worship Him in that form.



*So this is devotee's willing. Kṛṣṇa accepts everyone's devotional service if it is offered with love and affection. He says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa said "Anyone who offers Me a little flower, a little water, a little fruit, with love and affection, I eat them, I accept them." So if something offered by you to Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Him, then you should know that your life is successful. So there is no question of offering God so many things very gorgeously prepared, but you can offer a little flower, a little fruit and little water with love and affection. That means even the poorest man in the world can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no hindrance. Ahaituky apratihatā. Devotional service cannot be checked by any material condition. If anyone wants to worship God, he can do in any condition of life. There is no restriction. There is no restriction of cast and creed or country or nation. Anyone can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to his means, and our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a propagation to teach people how to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is our mission, because without relationship with God, without reviving our eternal affinity with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we cannot be happy. The Vedic injunction is sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone become happy." We are actually struggling for existence to become happy, but we do not know how to become happy.

So this science was taught five thousand years ago by God Himself. He advented in India. That does not mean He advented for India's benefit. He claims... Actually that is God's claim, that He is the father of all living entities.

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yaḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

*aham bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*God is father, supreme father of everyone. If we simply study this verse from the Bhagavad*-gītā, that the mother nature is the mother of all living entities and God is the supreme father of everyone... We can study these two lines very carefully. On the earth we can see so many living entities are coming out, beginning from the grass, then so many insects, reptiles, big trees, then animals, birds, beasts, then human beings. They are all coming from the earth, and they are living at the expense of earth. The earth is supplying food to everyone. As the mother gives life or maintains the child by the milk of her breast, similarly, the earth mother is maintaining all different types of living entities. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and the earth, mother earth is supplying food. There are thousands of elephants in the African jungle, they are also being supplied with food. And within your room in a hole there are thousands of ants, they are also being supplied food by the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So the philosophy is that we should not be disturbed by the so-called theory of over-population. If God can feed elephants, why he cannot feed you? You do not eat like the elephant. So this theory, that there is a shortage of food or overpopulation, we do not accept it. God is so powerful that He can feed everyone without any difficulty. Simply we are mismanaging. Otherwise there is no difficulty.



So under the circumstances we propose that every one of you become God conscious. The paragraph which I was mentioning, that we see the mother, mother earth, and we see the children in different forms... Then we must accept that there is father. Because without father there is no possibility of mother begetting children. If you simply understand this philosophy of father, mother and children, then you can very easily understand that there is God, the supreme father. There is no difficulty. But if you do not become reasonable as human being, if you remain as animal like cats and dogs... The dogs cannot understand that there is the supreme father, God, but a human being can understand. He has got intelligence. So with this advanced intelligence, if we do not understand about the existence of God, our relationship with Him and what is our duty in that relationship, then our, this human form of life will be spoiled. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is checking the human society from spoiling the human form of life. This human form of life, by the evolutionary process we have got after millions and millions of years, and if we spoil this life eating, sleeping, mating and defending like the cats and dog without any sense of God, then our life is spoiled. So please do not take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement as any sectarian movement. It is the science of God. Try to understand the science of God. We have got so many... (man yelling in background) What is that?

*Rādhā*-vallabha: It's a crazy boy.



Prabhupāda: All right. Either you accept it directly or you try to understand through philosophy and science. We have got so many books. So kindly take advantage of this movement and impartially try to understand what is the purpose of this movement, why we are distributing so many literatures. Soberly and with calm head, try to understand this movement and be happy. That is our only mission.



Thank you very much. (end)



680816JM.MON

Janmāṣṭamī

Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's

Appearance Day Lecture

-

Montreal, August 16, 1968



*Devotees: govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.



Prabhupāda:



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*(repeats govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi and devotees respond)



*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



*(govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi)



*ālola*-candraka-lasad vanamālyavaṁsi

*ratnāṅgadam praṇaya*-keli-kalā-vilāsam

*śyāmaṁ tribhaṅga*-lalitaṁ niyata-prakāśaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.31]



*(govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi)



*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cin-māyā-saduj-jvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*(govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi)



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*(govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi)



*panthāstu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānāṁ

*so 'pyasti yat prapada*-sīmny-avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*(govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi)



*So today, the birth appearance ceremony of Lord Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad*-gītā the Lord says,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



"My dear Arjuna, any person who simply tries to understand about My transcendental birth or appearance and disappearance and activities, janma karma..." The Personality of Godhead is not niṣkriya, without activities. So anyone who can understand that what kind of activities the Lord has and what kind of birth He accepts, simply by understanding these two things one gets wonderful result. What is that? Tyaktvā deham. By quitting this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], he does not take any more birth in this material world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Some of us may think that punar janma naiti means he becomes vanquished. No. Punar janma naiti, but mām eti, "He does not come to this material world, but he comes to Me." Mām eti. Mām eti means, then... [break] ...abode where we can go. Simply by understanding the nature of His appearance and activities.



*So today is that auspicious day, Janmāṣṭamī, when Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago in India, Mathurā. Those who are Indian ladies and gentlemen present, they know very well where is Mathurā. It is about ninety miles south of New Delhi. Mathurā is still existing and it is eternally existing. Kṛṣṇa appeared in Mathurā in His maternal uncle's house in a very precarious condition. That birthplace, Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthplace, is now maintained very nicely. One who goes to India, they see. So anyway, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared on this planet five thousand years ago. Now Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. Divyam means "not ordinary." It should not be understood just like we take our birth. Kṛṣṇa does not take his birth like us. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. When Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are speaking that formerly You spoke this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god. That means it is millions and trillions years ago You spoke. How can I believe it?" Because Kṛṣṇa was contemporary to Arjuna, so he was thinking that "Kṛṣṇa is my friend, is my cousin brother. How it is possible that He spoke this Bhagavad-gītā yoga to sun-god?" So what was the reply? The reply was this, that "You also appear many, many times; I also appear many, many times. The difference is that I can remember. You cannot remember."

*That is the difference between God and ordinary living creature, that we are also taking birth after birth. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and so long we are in this material world, we are cycling round this birth after birth. So Kṛṣṇa's birth is not like that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Tattvataḥ means in truth. Not superficially. Scientifically, one who knows, he can get immediately liberation. And how one can understand the same truths? That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvan yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Again the same thing, tattvataḥ, in truth. If anyone wants to know God, or Kṛṣṇa, in truth, not superficially, then he has to undertake the process of devotional service. Bhaktyā. In another place Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. "Any person who gives Me a little fruit, little flower, little water, but with devotion, bhaktyā..." That is the only qualification. So Kṛṣṇa says, tayā bhaktyā upāhṛtam aṣnāmi. "Because he brings it with devotion and faith and love, I eat." Kṛṣṇa eats. We are offering in the temple prasādam. So He eats because He says "I eat." How you can say that He does not eat? Some gentleman asked me that "Swamijī, you offer prasādam in the temple, but do you think Kṛṣṇa or God eats?" I answered, "Yes, why not? He says, 'I eat.' How you can say He does not eat? But you do not know how He eats." Due to poor fund of knowledge, you think that God does not eat. But eat..., His eating process is different. That is answered in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Brahma-saṁhitā, it is said aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. God's senses, Kṛṣṇa's senses are as powerful as other senses. Just like I can see with my eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can eat also with His eyes. That is... Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti. Just like...

There is many examples. Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, the first creation is that Garbhośāyī (Garbhodakaśāyī) Viṣṇu lying on the ocean and Brahmā was created from His navel. There was a lotus stem grown from the abdomen of the Lord, and Brahmā was born. Now Lakṣmī, the goddess of fortune, was just sitting. But as we understand that if we beget child, we require the cooperation of wife, but here we see that wife was sitting, but He begot Brahmā from the navel. This is called sarva-śaktimān. He does not require anyone's help. He can beget child. Not exactly as we beget child. Therefore janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. He is within your heart, He is everywhere, so He can appear from everywhere. Just like sun rises from the eastern side. It does not mean that eastern side is the mother of sun. We simply see that sun is rising from the eastern side. In this way, if we try to understand in truth, then we can understand what is God. Superficially, if we try to understand by our experimental knowledge, then it is not possible to understand God.

*panthāstu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānāṁ

*so 'pyasti yat prapada*-sīmny-avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*The Brahma*-saṁhitā said that if one starts on the chariot of air and makes progress on the speed of mind, still one cannot understand what is God. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. He cannot be understood simply by studying Vedas. Traiguṇya viṣayā vedaḥ nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. One has to transcend the position of Vedas also. Then one can understand what is God or what is Kṛṣṇa.



*So that process is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvan yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. So this bhakti, devotional service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. And under that bhakti category, this Janmāṣṭamī... Of course, this Janmāṣṭamī ceremony is observed by all Hindus. Irrespective of becoming Vaiṣṇava or not, this ceremony is observed in India every home. Just like in your Western countries the Christmas is observed in every home, similarly Janmāṣṭamī is observed in every home. Today is a great ceremonial day. So our program is, at twelve o'clock night the Lord will take birth and we shall receive Him. And just now it is ten o'clock. For two hours our program will continue in kīrtana. Kīrtana means sometimes chanting with music, and sometimes speaking. Both of them are kīrtana. Kīrtayati iti kīrtanam. Whenever we glorify the Lord, that is called kīrtana. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam reading is also kīrtana. Abhavad vaiyāsakī kīrtane. Vaiyāsakī, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he achieved the highest perfection, liberation, simply by reciting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrī-viṣṇu-śravane parīkṣit. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he simply heard. There are nine processes of devotional service. Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. Chanting, hearing. First hearing, then chanting. Without hearing, nobody can chant. Śravanaṁ kīrtanam. And what sort of śravanaṁ kīrtanam? Viṣṇoḥ, of Viṣṇu. Not anything else.

śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātmā*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*These are nine processes of devotional service, of which śravanam, hearing, is most important. Without hearing, nobody can understand the science of God. Therefore the Vedic mantras are called śruti. Śruti means it is to be heard. It is not to be experimented in the laboratory. It is simply to be heard. Therefore it is called śruti. So śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam. Vandanam, offering prayer. We also offer prayer. The other religious sect, just like the Christians, they offer prayer; the Muhammadans, they offer prayer. So prayer, offering prayer is also one of the items of bhakti. Chanting, hearing, meditating, offering prayers, arcanam, worshiping the Deity in the temple, all of them are together devotional service. So out of the nine... If you can execute all the nine, it is very good. But it is not possible. So even if you can execute one item, you become perfect. It is so nice. Śrī viṣṇu śravane parīkṣit. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he simply executed the function of hearing, he got perfection. Similarly, abhavad vaiyāsakī kīrtane. Vaiyāsakī means Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he simply glorified the Lord. Prahlādaḥ smarane. Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was simply meditating. There are many examples. Simply by following one principle of this devotional service, they got the highest perfectional life, liberation, back to home, back to Godhead.



So we shall invite today to speak about Kṛṣṇa from our students, as well as all the members who are present here. So I shall request Janārdana to speak something about his realization of Kṛṣṇa. (pause) All right. Let him speak.

Janārdana:



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhūtale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



*Kṛṣṇa, we know, is the ultimate Supreme Personality of Godhead. The name Kṛṣṇa has a meaning. The meaning of the name Kṛṣṇa is "the supreme attractive." Whatever there is that holds any attraction, that attraction is given by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa explains this Himself in the Bhagavad*-gītā. So in our life in this material world, we have so many different attractions which we are pursuing in order to build what we think will be our happiness. All this attraction is the attraction of Kṛṣṇa's inferior energy. Kṛṣṇa's māyā holds a great attraction for all the conditioned souls. And by following this attraction of Kṛṣṇa's māyā, they are continuing in the circle of birth and death. We are born into this world because we desire to enjoy something, so Kṛṣṇa provides us with a body that is suitable for that enjoyment, and He provides us also the objects of the enjoyment that we desire. However, also to remind us of our highest possible potential, that of the spiritual, unconditioned existence, we have along with these material enjoyments various kinds of suffering. These material enjoyments, although they are temporarily real, come to an end, and then there is feeling of bereavement and regret.



*So we are now enjoying the māyā of Kṛṣṇa's external potency in our ordinary life. Unless we realize the personality of Kṛṣṇa Himself... We must have personal realization, personal contact with Lord Kṛṣṇa. So long as we are enjoying these objects of our senses and thinking that these objects belong to us, and so long as we don't know to whom all these objects belong, to whom belongs the land, the money, the foods that we eat, the clothes that we wear, our families*-so long as we do not know to whom all these belong, then we are enjoying in a state of ignorance. Factually we are being thieves. We cannot be happy in such a condition. Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He provides us with all these objects of enjoyment, as we like them. But we can achieve a far happier state, not only for ourselves but for the whole human kind, if we realize that Kṛṣṇa, who is the supreme source of all the attractive objects that we are enjoying, is a person who is ready to receive as His loving servants the moment we want to surrender all our false ideas of ownership and come back to the spiritual platform.

*So Lord Kṛṣṇa for this reason has appeared. He wants to call the conditioned souls back to Godhead. He wants us to realize that He is the source of the whole universe, He is the owner of the universe, He is the supreme enjoyer, the supreme knower of everything, and that we are always welcome to associate with Him by the grace of His devotees, by the grace of a spiritual master. And so He has appeared, and we are now celebrating the Janmāṣṭamī day, the day when Lord Kṛṣṇa came to this conditioned plane out of His own transcendental power, with His full spiritual potency, in order to reveal the supreme nature of sac*-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], eternal knowledge, consciousness, and bliss, to all the conditioned souls so that they might be attracted to Him, and so that they might come out of the miseries of material existence and of ignorance. At this particular time in the world it is very much necessary that all people hear about Kṛṣṇa and that they should become attracted to chanting the name of Kṛṣṇa, to hearing about Kṛṣṇa's wonderful pastimes. So that by this exquisite attraction for Kṛṣṇa they might forget their lower desires, which are now leading everybody to a hellish condition of life in which it seems inevitable there are going to be wars and pestilences and starvation, diseases, all kinds of social injustice. All these things are unavoidable so long as the world at large does not understand who owns everything, who owns the land, who owns the money, who owns the food. So long as they don't understand that Kṛṣṇa is the owner and enjoyer of everything, so long as they don't understand that it is the highest enjoyment for the living soul to serve Kṛṣṇa, it is the perfect harmony in this condition to serve Kṛṣṇa, so long there will be fighting due to ignorance and deluded cross purposes.

This International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is meant for spreading the Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the whole world so that people might realize their spiritual existence, and so that the whole atmosphere of the world can become spiritualized by chanting the names of Kṛṣṇa. So we welcome everybody who comes to this temple to inquire about how to make your life perfect by tuning in to the desires of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa. You'll find that this is such a pleasant proposition, that all insignificant lower desires will be forgotten. There will not be any need for unnecessary fighting among the people of the world if they can only understand the spiritual plane of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The way to realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very simple. Simply chant

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



*Chant this mahā*-mantra under the guidance of the spiritual master and the results will be very quick. Thank you very much.



Prabhupāda: Gaurasundara?



Gaurasundara:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*So this mantra is another form of obeisance to the spiritual master, and the meaning is that I, who was standing in darkness with my eyes sealed, now offer my obeisances unto my spiritual master, who has forced me to open my eyes. He has forced me to open my eyes with this torchlight of knowledge which he is bearing. So therefore my spiritual master is my master. He can give me this actual knowledge of my position, my position as an existing entity. And that perfection of understanding my position is understanding Kṛṣṇa, or the supremely perfect entity. Kṛṣṇa is perfect existence, the perfect being, and as such, His existence is the greatest certainty of all. In one syllogism or one comparison that I can give, I could say that how can a shadow of my hand exist unless my hand exists? The point is how can these individual entities exist except as the shadow of the perfect entity, God? Of course, we can understand from the Bhagavad*-gītā or Vedic literatures that living entities are atomic particles of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as such they reflect the potencies of that Supreme Person.



So because Kṛṣṇa has personality and because Kṛṣṇa has individuality, we have individuality. Kṛṣṇa's existence, because He is perfect, is the most certain. Imperfect existence has no meaning. Our existence has no meaning except as reference, in reference to Kṛṣṇa's existence. We haven't even got the power to conserve our own existence. Or in other words, we can't understand how we're existing. We can understand in some deluded manner that we're feeding our bodies and so on. We can have some sort of knowledge of ritual. But we don't actually know what we are and what the ritual is, why we're performing it.

So getting beneath the actual ritual of daily life by this process of revealed or transcendental ritual taught by the spiritual master, then we can realize the real...

Prabhupāda: (in background:) Pradyumna. After he speaks they may...



*Gaurasundara: ...importance or the real striking features of our own existence. Again I want to come back to this point. Kṛṣṇa's existence is the most certain. Sometimes people have the idea that they can debate whether Kṛṣṇa exists or not. They can do that as long as they want to close their own eyes or keep their own brains, their own minds clouded by so many extraneous factors. Actually, Kṛṣṇa's existence is the most certain. We can go through many so*-called proofs or logical proofs. Simply because that fact is already established, I might give one or two. We can understand in our mundane logic that if something exists, that there's some reason for its existence, and similarly, if something does not exist, that there's some reason for that. Just as we can say something exists... For example, a harmonium exists because somebody has made that harmonium. A circle exists on the wall because somebody has drawn that circle on the wall. But on the other hand, a square circle does not exist because that existence would involve a contradiction or that would be absurd.



*So for anything which exists there must be a reason, and for anything which does not exist, then there is a reason why it does not exist. Now Kṛṣṇa's existence therefore is most certain because any reason which could deny Kṛṣṇa's existence is impossible to be found. Kṛṣṇa means He is the all*-inclusive entity. Therefore any reason which could prevent Kṛṣṇa's existence would have to be either external to His own divine nature or in His own nature. Nothing can be outside of Kṛṣṇa's all-inclusiveness. Therefore no external agent can prevent Kṛṣṇa's existence. And it is again self-contradictory to attribute any imperfection to the perfect being. Therefore the conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa necessarily exists because no one can prevent His existence.

*By definition, God is the perfect entity. So just as we've seen that existence of Kṛṣṇa cannot be checked... And actually nobody can prove that Kṛṣṇa does not exist, neither can they prevent Him from existing. This is sort of an indirect way to prod you to think about the position that you're in now. People become very proud because they have some material opulence or material knowledge, and they tend to think that they are self*-sufficient. But actually, we're dependent on so many things. For example, we are just taking it for granted that our bodies will remain unmutilated by various forces in nature, when actually at any moment the bodies could be totally destroyed. And, even granted that our bodies will be with us for some time in operable condition, this field of our activities has many laws which we're dependent upon. Just as the other day we were discussing the law of gravity. This idea of laws in nature necessarily implies the existence of the lawmaker. And this can be demonstrated very easily in many, many ways. We'll take the law of gravity again. If some object in nature which has no consciousness behaves in a regulated manner, then it's obvious that it's under the control of a law. We call it a law. For example, if an apple drops from a tree, the apple is obeying the law of gravity. The apple does not know the law of gravity; therefore that law is being enforced by some superior entity. In our dealings in society, people know laws. Still, they don't obey them. They have to be forced to obey the laws, and still, people disobey the law. But the laws of nature are so perfectly enforced that nobody can disobey. Just a little thought will make this a little bit more clear to anyone. So there are twofold implications, namely the law proceeds from lawmaker, law enforcement proceeds from law enforcer. Man has tried so hard to establish law and order. Law and order is already there in this existence which he's now facing. I think that we don't need to consider any more on these points just now. The main point or the main information which we're considering now is that by understanding Kṛṣṇa's existence, understanding Kṛṣṇa's appearance before the perception of ourselves, that we can terminate this material existence which we now face. This life we're now conscious of through these bodies which were born... Now these bodies were very small. They develop into impressive size. The bodies will dwindle and the bodies will be gone ultimately, lost. But all these living entities here in the room will go on existing. This process of birth and death we should understand. And we should especially understand how Kṛṣṇa appears before us who are trapped by birth and death. If we understand that Kṛṣṇa's appearance is not like ours, because He's perfect and because He's appearing for our benefit, then we may be able to reach out and grab hold of the lifeline that can... [break] ...of our own suicidal bogs.

So anyway, everybody has been coming here knows that we're recommending, simply associate with us, chant with us and listen to the teachings of our spiritual master. Put questions to us. Any question. And at this point I'd also like to invite questions. Is there any question?

Prabhupāda: Let him speak. Mukunda.



Gaurasundara: Mukunda prabhu will speak now.



Mukunda: Let me offer my respectful obeisances to our spiritual master, Swami Bhaktivedanta, who is dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa, having taken shelter unto His lotus feet. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is intended to make a solution to our everyday problems. It's not a kind of place where people just come because there's some religious rites being performed. But everyone in this age is thinking that "I am free," and actually I am not free. I am very bound up. We're strictly bound up by the stringent laws of nature. In every status of life I have to serve somebody or something or my own body. In every status of life I have to serve my wife or I have to serve my children, I have to serve my pet, I have to serve my work, my boss, my associates. If I'm very wealthy, very elevated, or very beautiful physically, I am born in an aristocratic family, I always have to serve somebody. If nothing else, one has to serve one's own stomach. I have to eat. I have to get food. I have to serve my stomach. So I am not free at all. I have to do these things. There's no way I can stop. If I don't eat, I will die.



*So our natural position as a living entity is that we have to serve something. Every living entity has to serve. That's our natural position. If something is wrong with my hand and I want to be cured, I don't grab onto some foodstuffs or some medicine, some herbs, and squeeze it with the hand and think that this hand is going to be cured. I take the medicine or the food through my mouth, and then it circulates through the digestive system and through the veins and finally comes to the hand and can work its cure. So the hand, unless it's serving its source, then it's useless. The servant must serve its master or the part must serve the whole. And our relationship with God is the same. Just like the hand is made out of bile, blood and air, flesh and bone, as all the body is. So similarly we're made out of spirit. Qualitatively the same as Kṛṣṇa, but quantitatively many millions of times less. Qualitatively the same, quantitatively different. Fragmental portion. So if we fragmental portions, separated parts and parcels, can serve the source or the whole, then we can be cured of this material disease which is rampant nowadays. And this is possible only by mercy. By mercy alone we can transcend this material existence and know that I am part and parcel of the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa, or God, and I can erase all of my karma and situate myself in pure consciousness. But this consciousness cannot be purified unless there is mercy. And in this age, Kali*-yuga, as we know, mercy is diminished to being almost nonexistent. And Kali-yuga is just beginning.

*So if we can get some information about what I am, what is my position, and what is God and how am I related to God, what is this world, then we're very fortunate. So by the mercy of the spiritual master we can free ourselves from these stringent laws of nature, and these unbreakable bonds. And only in this way. We can't free ourselves superficially or by our own mental invention. We can't sit, just go out and sit and think and free ourselves from this material existence. We must be subject to our own body, bodily discomforts and our own mind, and we must be subject to the actions upon us of other living entities, and we must be subject to the laws of nature, to providence, to pestilence, famine, catastrophe. But if we can accept and hear submissively this teaching of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā from the bona fide spiritual master, then we are free immediately. We are in Vaikuṇṭha.

So we're very shocked and astonished that so many people are coming to the West, to the United States, and posing as holy men and simply making business, charging money, and giving somebody some magical formula whereby they can become God in half of a year. And so many people who are sincere seekers are being deluded, and this is very unfortunate. There is said to be two classes of men. One class of men is satisfied with his existence. He goes from one pleasure to another. From the cinema to the restaurant to sports, from one to the other. "I can't wait to finish one to go to the next," and still he's saying, "I'm happy. I'm satisfied." And there's another class of men that is not satisfied. These men are searching, that there is always something on his mind. He is thinking, "There must be something behind all of this. That I can look at all of this as a unified whole." So this first class of men will not want to take to spiritual knowledge, but the person who is inquisitive and is not satisfied with this material life, he can hear this knowledge submissively and derive great benefit from it. The symptom of the human being is that he is not satisfied. He's disgusted, he's searching. The symptom of animal life is that he is satisfied taking everything, "That's very nice. Everything is fine." Like a hog, hog eating stool. He's thinking, "Oh, it's very nice." But the human being will not accept such awful things. The human being has the chance to get out of this shackle of continued, repeated births and deaths.

*So simply by hearing the message of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā, and the names of Kṛṣṇa diligently, submissively, and from a bona fide source, we can immediately get some relief from this material existence. Just like when we were chanting here you could feel some ecstasy. Well, this ecstasy goes unlimitedly and infinitely, eternally, if one takes to it. It's not as if you reach some point of enlightenment and then you're enlightened. No. But it's always eternal, ever increasing. Just like the relationship between ourselves and our spiritual master is eternal and ever increasing, our relationship with God is the same. So please try to realize that this is a very serious movement, and we're not asking you to sign up or pay us anything, but simply to sincerely try it and you'll immediately feel some benefit. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Yamunā? Yamunā.



Yamunā:



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhutale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



*I am offering my repeated, humble obeisances unto my spiritual preceptor, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Please try to understand that everything that we are learning here in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is received through the ears. And unless one does not listen submissively, one cannot hear transcendental message. This is the opening of the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. It states that at the reading of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, the forest of Naimiśāraṇya, many sages were present, and it was so quiet that the dropping of a pin could be heard on the sand. So the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness must be received submissively. Our spiritual preceptor has brought Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the Western world, in the hopes that the people here will sincerely take to this process of practicing bhakti-yoga, or the yoga of devotional service and love unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. This is not a sect. This is for people of the world who understand one premise, that "I am not this body; I am pure spirit soul," that this body is simply a dress. Just like you wear clothes. But what is it that keeps you alive that is eternal? This is spirit soul. This is so simple that even a child at the age of five years can understand this. If it's from a bona fide source, he can understand this.



We are requesting to you that you please come to the practices of Bhāgavata. Come to kīrtana. By chanting

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



*you at once are elevated into the spiritual platform, and our contaminated material senses may become purified simply because of this association of the names of God. These names are absolute. They are not material. If you chant "water, water, water, water," your thirst will not be quenched. But if you cry "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," you may find your position in this world, where you came from, why are you here, what are you doing, where are you going. These questions man must answer, or he's not making use of his ability of man. He's simply living an animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, defending. It does not matter if you are man, you are woman, you are a child, you are Indian, you are American. You simply must ask these questions. And when one comes upon a bona fide source one must take advantage of that source and not pass it up. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or the practice of the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam and the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, are open to all, and we invite you to please come. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Feel the sublime ecstasy. Thank you very much. Are there any questions?



Prabhupāda: Pradyumna? So Hans, you can speak.



Haṁsadūta: There are so many religions. There's Hindu, there's Christian, there's Jewish, Muhammadan, so many things. And people are professing, "Oh, I'm Christian. I'm Hindu. I'm Jewish." So many things. But this religion is not so cheap. This religion is not simply something I can take up, take it, "Oh, now I think I should be Christian. That's very nice. Or maybe I'll become Hindu." No. You see these boys and girls, they're not Hindus, they're not Christians, they're not Jews. What are they? You see the spiritual master. He's not Hindu. You may be thinking, "Oh, he's from India. And these American or these Canadian boys and girls, they've taken some fad. They like these Indian things." No, it's not like that at all. This is not religion. According to Sanskrit definition, religion means that quality of the living entity which after everything is removed... Oh, you can lose all your money, you can lose your family, you can lose your nationality, but when everything is removed, that religion remains. So what is that? What is that quality that's common to every living entity? What is that? Just like fire. What is... [break] (end)





690904JM.HAM

Janmāṣṭamī

Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's Appearance Day Lecture

-

Hamburg, September 4, 1969



See 690827IN.HAM in Initiations section.





730821JM.LON

Janmāṣṭamī

Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's Appearance Day Lecture

-

London, August 21, 1973



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) His Excellency, the High Commissioner; *ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here and participating in this ceremony, Janmāṣṭamī, advent of Kṛṣṇa. The subject matter I've been ordered to speak on is advent of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



This fact, that we can achieve such a stage of life when we can stop our birth and death... Sa 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. This morning, I was explaining this verse:



yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete

puruṣaṁ puruṣarsabha

*sama*-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ

so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate



*Amrtatva means immortality. So the modern civilization, they have no idea, either the great philosopher, great politician or great scientist, that it is possible to attain the stage of immortality. Amṛtatva. We are all amṛta. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, na jāyate na mrīyate vā kadācin. We living entities, we never die, never take birth. Nityaḥ śāśvato yaṁ, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Every one of us, we are eternal, nityaḥ śāśvato; Purāṇa, the oldest. And after annihilation of this body, we do not die. Na hanyate. The body is finished, but I have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13].



This simple thing, at the present moment, they are lacking knowledge, that we, all living entities, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we are eternal, we are blissful, and we are cognizant. Kṛṣṇa is described in the Vedic śāstras:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. God, Kṛṣṇa, when I speak Kṛṣṇa, that means God. If there is any important name... God, it is sometimes said God has no name. That's a fact. But God's name is given by His activities. Just like Kṛṣṇa accepted the sonhood of Mahārāja Nanda, or Yaśodāmāyī, or Devakī, or Vasudeva. Vasudeva and Devakī were Kṛṣṇa's real father and mother. Nobody is real father and mother of Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is the original father of everyone. But when Kṛṣṇa comes here, advents, He accepts some devotees as His father, as His mother. Kṛṣṇa is the original, ādi-puruṣaṁ. Ādyaṁ Purāṇa-puruṣam nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. He is the original person. Then must be very old? No. Adyam purāṇa puruṣam nava-yauvanam ca. Always fresh youth. That is Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, you have seen the picture, He's just like a boy of twenty years or, at most, twenty-four years old. But at that time, He had great-grandchildren. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is always youth. Navayauvanam ca. These are the statements of Vedic literatures.



*advaitam acyutam anādiṁ ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlābhaṁ adurlābhaṁ ātmā*-bhaktau

[Bs. 5.33]



*So, to understand Kṛṣṇa, simply if we read as a formality the Vedic literature, it will be very difficult to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Vedesu durlābhaṁ. Although all the Vedas are meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. Aham eva vedyo. What is the use of studying Vedas if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa? Because the ultimate goal of education means to understand the Supreme Lord, the supreme father, the supreme cause. As it is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā, to discuss about the Supreme Absolute Truth, Brahman. What is that Brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ. That Brahman means wherefrom everything emanates. So science, philosophy, means to find out the ultimate cause of everything. That we are getting from the śāstras, Vedic literature, that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



Cause of all causes. Just like try to understand. I am caused by my father. My father is caused by his father. He is caused by his father, his father... Go on searching, then you'll ultimately come to somebody who is the cause. But He has no cause. Anādir ādir govindaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. I may be cause of my son, but I am also result of the cause, my father. But the śāstra says that anādir ādir, He is the original person, but He has no cause. That is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. The advent of Kṛṣṇa, it is very important thing. We should try to understand Kṛṣṇa, why He advents, why He comes on this material world, what is His business, what are His activities. If we simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. You get that immortality. The aim of life is to achieve immortality. Amṛtatvāya kalpate.



So in the advent of Kṛṣṇa, we shall try to understand the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa. His Excellency was speaking of peace. The peace formula is there, spoken by Kṛṣṇa. What is that?

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



If the politicians, diplomats, they are trying to establish peace in the world... The United Nation is there, and there are many other organizations. They are trying to have real peace and tranquillity, no misunderstanding between man to man, nation to nation. But that is not happening. That is not happening. The defect is that in the root is wrong. Everyone's thinking "It is my country. It is my family. It is my society. It is my property." This "mine" is illusion. In the śāstra it is said, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This "I and my" philosophy is illusion.



*So this illusion means māyā. māyā... If you want to get out of this illusion, māyā, then you have to accept the Kṛṣṇa's formula. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Everything is there in the Bhagavad*-gītā for guidance if we accept the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Everything is there. Peace is there, prosperity is there. So that is a fact. Unfortunately, we do not accept it. That is our misfortune. Or we misinterpret it. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. "Become My devotee." Mad-yājī, "You worship Me." Māṁ namaskuru, "And offer obeisances unto Me." Is it very difficult task? Here is Kṛṣṇa's Deity. If you think of this Deity, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, is it very difficult? Man-manā. You come into the temple and, just as a devotee, offer your respect to the Deity, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. As far as possible try to worship the Deity, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa does not want your whole property. Kṛṣṇa is open to the poorest man for being worshiped. What He is asking? He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: "With devotion, if a person offers Me a little leaf, a little fruit, a little water, I accept it." Kṛṣṇa is not hungry, but Kṛṣṇa wants to make you devotee. That is the main point. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. That is the main principle. If you offer Kṛṣṇa little things... Kṛṣṇa is not hungry; *Kṛṣṇa is providing food for everyone. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. But Kṛṣṇa wants your love, your devotion. Therefore He is begging little patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto. There is no difficulty in understanding Kṛṣṇa and to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But we'll not do that; that is our disease. Otherwise, it is not difficult at all. And as soon as we become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we understand the whole situation. Our philosophy, Bhāgavata philosophy, is also communism because we consider Kṛṣṇa the supreme father, and all living entities, they are all sons of Kṛṣṇa.

*So Kṛṣṇa says that He is the proprietor of all planets, sarva*-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Therefore whatever there is, either in the sky or in the water or in the land, they're all Kṛṣṇa's property. And because we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa, therefore every one of us has the right to use (the) father's property. But we should not encroach upon others. This is the formula of peace. Mā gṛdha kasya svidhanam, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to God. You are sons of God. You have got the right to use father's property, but do not take more than you need. That is punishable. These things are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12], in the Bhagavad-gītā, "he's a thief." If anyone takes more than he needs, then he's a thief. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. If for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa... Yajña means Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Yajñeśvara. So you act for Kṛṣṇa, you take prasāda Kṛṣṇa. That what we are teaching here. In this temple, we are residing Americans, Indians, Englishmen, Canadians, Africans, different parts of the world. You know that. Not only in this temple, all over the world. [break]

*...when we forget this philosophy, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer and Kṛṣṇa is the supreme friend of everyone. When you forget this, then we come into this material world and struggle for existence, fight with one another. This is material life. So you cannot get... The politicians, diplomats, philosophers, they have tried so much, but actually nothing has become fruitful. Just like the United Nations. It was organized after the second great war, and they wanted that peacefully we shall settle everything. But there is no such thing. The fighting is going on between Pakistan and India, between Vietnam and America, and this and that. It is not the process. The process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone has to understand this fact, that we are not proprietor. Proprietor is Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Just like America. Say two hundred years ago the Americans, the European migrators, they were not proprietor*-somebody was proprietor. Before them, somebody was proprietor or it was vacant land. The actual proprietor is Kṛṣṇa. But artificially you are claiming that "It is my property." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is called māyā.

*So Kṛṣṇa advents for give us lesson. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Kṛṣṇa says, "My dear Arjuna, I come when there is discrepancies in the process of religious life." Dharmasya glānir bhavati. And what is dharma? The simple definition of dharma is dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. This is dharma. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like what do you mean by law? Law means the word given by the state. You cannot make law at home. That is not possible. Whatever the government gives you, that "You should act like this," that is law. Similarly, dharma means the direction given by God. That is dharma. Simple definition. You create dharma. I have created this dharma, another man creates another dharma; *these are not dharma. Therefore, where the Bhagavad-gītā ends, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66], this is dharma-to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Any other dharma, they are not dharma. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa asks sarva-dharmān parityajya: "Give up"? He said that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge: "I advent to establish the principles of religion." And at last He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. That means the so-called dharmas that we have manufactured, man-made dharmas, they are not dharmas. Dharma means what is given by God. But we have no understanding what is God and what is His word. That is the modern civilization defect. But the order is there, God is there*-we won't accept. Where is the possibility of peace? The order is there. Kṛṣṇa says, the Supreme, bhagavān uvāca. Vyāsadeva writes bhagavān uvāca. One should know what is bhagavān. Vyāsadeva could have written kṛṣṇa uvāca. No. He says... If one may misunderstand Kṛṣṇa, therefore he writes in every stanza, every verse, śrī bhagavān uvāca. So Bhagavān is there. Bhagavān is speaking. Bhagavān is accepted by all the ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī. Latest, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu also, even Śaṅkarācārya, he also accepts Kṛṣṇa-sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa. So the verdict of the modern ācāryas, and in the past also, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, everyone accepted Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Arjuna, who heard from Kṛṣṇa, after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣam ādyaṁ śāśvatam [Bg. 10.12].

*So everything is there. Especially in India, we have got so much asset for understanding God. Simple thing. Everything is there ready made. But we won't accept. So what is the remedy for such disease? We are searching after peace, but we won't accept anything which is actually giving us peace. This is our disease. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to awaken the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness in everyone's heart. Otherwise, how these Europeans and Americans and other countrymen, they never heard of Kṛṣṇa four or five years ago, how they are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness so seriously? Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart. It has to be awakened only. That is described in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti 'sādhya' kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*It is awakened. Love for Kṛṣṇa, devotion for Kṛṣṇa, is there within everyone's heart, but he has forgotten. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply meant for awakening that Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the process. Just like when you are sleeping, your, I have to call you loudly-"Mr. such and such, such and such, get up. You have got this business." No other senses will act when you are sleeping. But the ear will act. Therefore, in this age, when people are so fallen they will not hear anything, if we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, he'll be awakened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is practical.



*So actually if we are anxious for peace and tranquillity in society, then we must be very serious to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is our request. Don't take it neglectfully, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement can solve all the problems of life, all the problems in the world. Social, political, philosophical, religious, economical-everything can be solved by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore, we request those who are leaders-just like His Excellency is present here*-you should try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is very scientific, authorized. It is not a mental concoction or sentimental movement. It is most scientific movement. So we are inviting all leaders from all countries: try to understand. If you are sober, if you are actually reasonable, you'll understand that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the sublime movement for the welfare of the whole human society. That's a fact. Anyone may come. We are prepared to discuss this subject matter. Kṛṣṇa bhūliyā jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. We should not...

*Our human life, the ultimate goal of human life is to achieve immortality. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], This is our..., we have forgotten this. We are simply leading the life of cats and dogs, without any knowledge that we can achieve that perfection of life when there will be no more birth, no more death. We do not understand even that there is possibility of amṛtatvam. But everything is possible. Amṛtatvam. Nobody wants to die. That's a fact. Nobody wants to become old man, nobody wants to become diseased. This is our natural inclination. Why? Because originally, in our spiritual form, there is no birth, no death, no old age, no disease. So after evolutionary process down from the aquatics, birds, beasts, plants, trees, when you come to this form of human form of body after... Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tād jīva*-jātiṣu. This is evolutionary process. We come to the human form of body. Then we should know what is the goal of life. The goal of life is amṛtatvam, to become immortal. That you can become immortal simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says. It is a fact. We have to simply understand. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvataḥ, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], after giving up this body, you don't accept any more material body. And as soon as you don't accept any material body means you become immortal. Because by nature we are immortal.

So Kṛṣṇa advents, Kṛṣṇa advents to teach us this lesson, that "You are immortal by nature. As spirit soul you are part and parcel of Me. I am as immortal. So you are also immortal. Unnecessarily, you are trying to be happy in this material world."

mamaivāṁso jīva bhūto

*jīva*-loke sanātanaḥ

manaḥ saṣṭanindriyāni

*prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati

[Bg. 15.7]



*Simply struggle for..., unnecessarily. The best thing is that you have enjoyed sense life in so many varieties of life, as cats, as dogs, as demigods, as tree, as plants, as insect. Now, in this human form of life, don't be captivated by sensuous life. Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the verdict of the śāstras. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. To work very hard like dogs and hog for sense gratification is not the ambition of human life. Human life is meant for little austerity. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. We have to purify our existence. That is the mission of human life. Why I shall purify my sattva existence? Brahma-saukhyam tv anantam. Then you get unlimited pleasure, unlimited happiness. That is real pleasure. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānanda-cid-ātmani iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate [Cc. Madhya 9.29].



So, at least in India, all the great personalities, saintly persons, sages and ācāryas, they have cultivated this spiritual knowledge so nicely and fully, and we are not taking advantage of it. It is not that those śāstras and directions are meant for the Indians or for the Hindus or for brāhmaṇas. No. It is meant for everyone. Because Kṛṣṇa claims

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yaḥ

tāsāṁ mahad brahma yonir

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



Kṛṣṇa claims that "I am everyone's father." Therefore, He is very much anxious to make us peaceful, happy. Just like the father wants to see his son is well situated and happy; *similarly, Kṛṣṇa also wants to see every one of us happy and well*-situated. Therefore He comes sometimes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. This is the purpose of Kṛṣṇa's advent. So those who are servants of Kṛṣṇa, devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they should take the mission of Kṛṣṇa. They should take up the mission of Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version.



āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yare dekha, tare kaha, 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa. Just try to preach what Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is the duty of every Indian. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says.



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari para*-upakāra.

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*So Indians, Indians are meant for para*-upakāra. Indians are not meant for exploiting others. That is not Indians' business. Indian history is all along for para-upakāra. And formerly, from all parts of the world, used to come to India to learn what is spiritual life. Even Jesus Christ went there. And from China and from other countries. That is history. And we are forgetting our own asset. How much we are callous. Such a great movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is going on all over the world, but our Indians are callous, our government is callous. They do not take. That is our misfortune. But it is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He says any Indian, bhārata bhūmite manuṣya janma, if he's human being, he must make his life perfect by taking advantage of this Vedic literature and distribute the knowledge all over the world. That is para-upakāra. So India can do. They are actually appreciating. These Europeans, American young men, they are appreciating that how great... I get daily dozens of letter, how they are benefited by this movement. Actually, that is the fact. It is giving the life for the dead man. So I shall specially request the Indians, especially His Excellency, kindly cooperate with this movement, and try to make successful your life and others' life. That is the mission of Kṛṣṇa, advent of Kṛṣṇa.



Thank you very much. (end)



740811BG.VRN

Janmāṣṭamī

Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's Appearance Day

-

*Bhagavad*-gītā 7.5 Lecture

-

Vṛndāvana, August 11, 1974



*Nitāi: "Besides this inferior nature, O mighty*-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine, which are all living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe."



Prabhupāda:



apareyam itas tv anyāṁ

prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām

*jīva*-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*So Kṛṣṇa has explained this material world, bhūmir āpaḥ analo vāyuḥ. Now, this is also nature, prakṛti. There is another nature, prakṛti. Prakṛti means strī*-liṅga, woman. Jīva-bhūta, the living entities, are not mentioned in this connection as puruṣa. Not puruṣa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think themselves as puruṣa. The karmīs also, they think they are puruṣa. Puruṣa means enjoyer, and prakṛti means enjoyed. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that the living entity is puruṣa. He says prakṛti. Prakṛti is always subordinate to the puruṣa. That is the natural way.



*In the Manu*-saṁhitā it is said that prakṛti, or strī, never deserve to be independent. Na strī svātantryam arhati. So as soon as the living entity is accepted as prakṛti, then it is to be understood that she is under the control of the supreme puruṣa, Puruṣottama. Kṛṣṇa is Puruṣottama. And Kṛṣṇa has been accepted as the puruṣa by Arjuna. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam [Bg. 10.12]. It is not that Kṛṣṇa has become puruṣa now, and before that He was impersonal. No. Kṛṣṇa is puruṣaṁ śāśvatam, eternally He is puruṣa, eternally He is enjoyer. He's never enjoyed. You cannot enjoy Kṛṣṇa, or God, for your sense gratification. That is not possible. He can use you for His sense gratification. That is bhakti-mārga. The bhaktas, they never claim to be puruṣa. They are always subordinate. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. This is bhakti-yoga.

*So this material energy is inferior, and the spiritual energy, although prakṛti, still, it is superior energy. That is explained. Why superior? Because the spiritual energy, prakṛti, can control over the material energy. There is some tint of puruṣa activities, but actually, living entity is not puruṣa. He's prakṛti. So as the material energy, bhūmir āpaḥ analo vāyuḥ, is controlled by the supreme controller, Kṛṣṇa, similarly, we are also controlled by the supreme controller, Kṛṣṇa. And because Kṛṣṇa is controller both of the material energy and the spiritual energy, He's called the supreme controller. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. In another place Kṛṣṇa says, so far the material energy is concerned, He says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Mayādhyakṣeṇa: "Under My superintendence, this material energy is working."

*In another place, in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā-śakti, or external energy, Durgā,... Durgā means the superintendent of the fort. Durgā. Durgā means fort, where you cannot get out or cannot enter very easily. That is called durgā. Dur-gamana. So Durgā means the superintendent deity of this material world. So she is very powerful, Durgā. How much powerful? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktiḥ. She can create, she can maintain, and she can destroy the whole material energy, whole material cosmic manifestation. She's so powerful. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva [Bs. 5.44]. Still, she is working not independently. Chāyeva. Just like chāya, or reflection, or shadow. Not independently. The material scientists who think that the material energy is working independently, they are mistaken. Material energy cannot work independently. We have got experience. However gorgeous a machine may be, unless there is touch of the spirit soul, the machine cannot work. Similarly, the big machine, cosmic manifestation, everything is going on very nicely, but it is being worked out by the plan of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated by Kṛṣṇa Himself, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10], and similarly it is confirmed by Brahmā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44], yasya hi... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā. Sā durgā yasya icchānurūpam api ceṣṭate. Now, not independent. As the Supreme Personality of Godhead desires, she works. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.

So description of this... Kṛṣṇa has proposed in the beginning of this chapter that asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu: [Bg. 7.1] "Without any doubt, as you can understand Me completely, I am describing." Now, here is the description. Kṛṣṇa says that the material energy and the spiritual energy, both of them are different energies of Kṛṣṇa. In the *Vedas* also it is stated, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate.

na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate

*na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate

*svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca

[Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]



*The Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has nothing to do Himself because His energies are so complete that simply by His desire, the energies work svābhāvikī, automatically. Just like the energy within a seed. You implant it, put it in, within the earth, put little water, and it fructifies. It becomes a big tree, banyan tree. The energy is so perfect. We can study by ordinary understanding. The banyan tree, one fruit, and there are thousands of seeds within one fruit. And each seed is containing another banyan tree. This is a fact. We can experience. Now, how much energy is there, a small seed. But the energy is so complete that it can produce a big banyan tree. Not only a big banyan tree, many millions of fruits, fig fruits, and each and every fruit there are millions of seeds. Just imagine parāsya śaktiḥ, the energy of the Supreme, how perfect it is. And so perfect... Svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca. The energy is put there, electric energy or spiritual energy is there, and automatically it becomes perfectly done. Wherever it is... As it is required. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. We, if we try to paint one picture of a banyan tree, it will take so much energy of us and days. Still, it is simply painting. It is not perfect. But Kṛṣṇa's energy is so perfect that within the seed everything is there, and in due course of time it fructifies and comes into nice, perfect tree. This is called Kṛṣṇa's energy.



*So both the spiritual energy and material energy, the source is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the conclusion should be that life does not come from matter. Matter comes from life. As it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. Kṛṣṇa is life, and from Him these material energies-earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, and false ego-has come. So the huge, gigantic material cosmic manifestation is caused by the supreme life. Not that life has come from matter.

*So there are so many theories, but Kṛṣṇa, the supreme life, the supreme being, is the source of everything. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. The, this fact is known to the devotees. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Kṛṣṇa is the source. Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedānta*-sūtra the inquiry is athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is that Absolute Truth, the supreme source of everything? That supreme source is Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the beginning: janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. Abhijñaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme creator, and He knows everything. Anvaya-vyatirekābhyām, directly and indirectly, both ways. He knows everything. He says also in Bhagavad-gītā, vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. He knows everything. Kṛṣṇa, when He was asked by Arjuna that "You say that this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā was taught by You to the sun-god. How can I believe it?" the answer was that "The thing is that both of us, we were present, but you have forgotten. I have not forgotten."

That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ordinary living be... He is complete; we are not complete. We are incomplete, fragmental portion of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we must be controlled by Kṛṣṇa. If we do not agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa, then we shall be controlled by the material energy, this bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. Actually, we are spiritual energy. We should voluntarily agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa. That is devotional service. That is devotional service. We are spiritual energy, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Spirit. So if we agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa, then we are promoted to the spiritual world. If we agree. Kṛṣṇa does not interfere with your little independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Kṛṣṇa say to Arjuna, "Whatever you like, you can do." That independence we have got.

*So out of that independence we have come to this material world, to enjoy freely. So Kṛṣṇa has given us freedom, "You can enjoy freely." And we are trying to do that. But the result is that we are becoming entangled. We are given the freedom to work in this material world. Everyone is trying to become the master of the material world. Nobody is trying to become the servant. Only we, the Vaiṣṇavas, we are trying to become servant. The karmīs and jñānīs, they do not like to become servant. They criticize us that "You Vaiṣṇavas, you have got slave mentality." Yes, we have got the slave menta... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught, gopī*-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. That is our position. What is the use of claiming artificially, "I am master"? If I had been master, then why the fan is required? I am servant of this influence of summer season. Similarly, I shall be servant in the winter season, too much cold.

*So we are always servant. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya*-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Actual, our constitutional position is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose, that these foolish persons or rascals, mūḍhāḥ... I am not manufacturing the words "foolish" and "rascal." It is said by Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. He has spoken like that. You'll find. Duṣkṛtinaḥ, always acting sinfully, and mūḍhāḥ, and rascals, ass. Narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. "Oh, you are...? Kṛṣṇa, You are speaking so much ill of these materialist scientists? There are so many philosophers. They're all narādhamāḥ?" "Yes, they are narādhamāḥ." "But they are educated." "Yes, that is also..." But what kind of education? Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ: "The result of their education-knowledge has been taken away by māyā." The more one is educated, the more one is atheist.

*At the present moment... Of course, education does not mean... Education means to understand. Jñānī. Educate, educated means wise man, educated man, jñānī. The actual jñānī means māṁ prapadyate. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. That is education. The education does not mean to become atheist, "There is no God. I am God, you are God, everyone is God." This is not education. This is ajñāna. The Māyāvādīs, they think that they have become one with God. That is not education. That is described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. They are thinking that they have become liberated, but actually, aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32], their intelligence is not purified. Therefore falsely claiming. If one is God, then how he has become dog? This much common sense there is not. God is God; *dog is dog. This Dvaitavāda philosophy is perfect. Acintya*-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. We have got... Because we are spiritual energy, therefore... Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Spirit. Therefore we are in one in quality, but Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Aṇor aṇīyān mahataḥ. He's mahato mahīyān, and we are aṇor aṇīyān. We are smaller than the smallest. This relationship with Kṛṣṇa is perfect. If we had been actually God, then why we are fallen? This is not possible. God is God. He's never... God's name is Acyuta. He never falls down. But jīva-bhūta, jīva, living entities, they are cyuta. They falls down from the spiritual platform to the material platform.

*So they may... Although we have fallen in the material platform, but because we are spiritual energy, therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing this living entity as para prakṛti. It is prakṛti. Prakṛti means to be controlled by the puruṣa. This is to be understood. Prakṛti is never controller. The puruṣa is controller. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. So jīva*-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. It is parā-prakṛti, superior energy, because it is trying to control over the material energy. Every one of us, we are trying to control over the material energy. The big stone, big hill, they, that is material energy, but the spiritual energy, a human being, is breaking the hill by dynamite. Therefore it is superior energy. It is also energy, but superior energy, because the..., it can control even the biggest mountain. Nowadays, by scientific advancement, they are making so many tunnels within the big, big mountain. Big, big ocean, they are making tunnel. They are drilling oil. Controlling. Therefore superior energy. But that does not mean they have become God. That is mistake. God is different. God is Kṛṣṇa, the supreme controller. He's controller of the material energy and the superior energy. This should be the conclusion. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. And the... Because... That will be explained in the next verse.

*Because the superior energy is controlling the material energy... Or trying to control. Not controlling, but trying to control. That is called struggle for existence. Actually, we cannot control the material energy, but we are trying. That endeavor, to try to control over this material energy, is called struggle for existence. Actually, we shall not be controller. We shall not be able to control. That is explained. Therefore, in the material world, we are trying to solve one problem, but we are getting new problems. In the Western countries we see it very easily. Man manufactured the horseless carriage, motorcar, to go very swiftly, but now it is problem is where to park and how to drive the motorcar. In America we have seen. They are increasing different paths, one after another, one after another, one after another. Still, the problem is not solved. Still somewhere you'll find bottleneck. So many accidents. So we cannot actually solve the material problems. That is not possible. Material energy is so strong. Sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā [Bs. 5.44]. You cannot control over. Because real controller is Kṛṣṇa. We are simply trying to control over the material energy. That will be, never be successful. This is knowledge.

Kṛṣṇa says therefore, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Mama māyā duratyayā. It is very difficult. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to control over the material energy. That is explained by a Vaiṣṇava poet, very simple language,

*kṛṣṇa*-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare

*nikaṭa*-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare

*(Prema*-vivarta)



*As soon as we forget Kṛṣṇa, the supreme controller, and we want to control over the material energy, bhoga vāñchā kare... Bhoga means control over. "I shall control this market. I shall be the head of the market." Everyone is trying that. So kṛṣṇa*-bahirmukha. He does not know the real controller is Kṛṣṇa. So kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. This bhoga vāñchā, on account of this bhoga vāñchā, he becomes subjected to the conditions offered by this material nature. Therefore it is said,



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*So in the Bhagavad-gītā is..., everything is explained. Either you study in, comparing in the modern scientific and philosophical ways, or as you accept it as it is, the conclusion is the same*-Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. That will be explained later verses. Therefore if you are sensible, if you are actually wise, I mean, if you are actually advanced in knowledge, then you should surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. We have to surrender. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. You have to (be) controlled. You cannot be independent. The more you become independent, you become more and more entangled. Yajñārthe karma, karmaṇi, anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. If you don't act for Yajña, Yajña-puruṣa, Kṛṣṇa, then you'll be entangled. So the best thing is if we become wise... Wise means... Kṛṣṇa says that "This is your position. You have to surrender unto Me. You did not surrender unto Me; therefore you are suffering so much in this material world."



Today is Kṛṣṇa's birthday. He descends to give us instruction. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. Kṛṣṇa advents Himself... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. This is dharmasya glāniḥ. What is that? When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to become the master of the world. This is dharmasya glāniḥ. When we want to become master of Kṛṣṇa, that is dharmasya glāniḥ. So Kṛṣṇa advents Himself. This is, today is the auspicious day of Kṛṣṇa's adventing to kill Kaṁsa and to release Vasudeva. This is Kṛṣṇa. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya... Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. Vasudeva, His father, was arrested, put into the prison house. To release him from the prison house, and to kill the Kaṁsa, duṣkṛtina, rākṣasa... The rākṣasika philosophy is "How to kill Kṛṣṇa, how to become godless." Kaṁsa was planning to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is... Kaṁsa, or the demons, that is plan. But Kṛṣṇa comes to kill the demons and protect the devotees. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. But He is kind to both the demons and the devotees. By... Anyone who is killed by Kṛṣṇa, he also gets liberation. And what to speak of the devotee.

So on this advent day of Kṛṣṇa we shall seek protection at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Then we shall be able to cross over this illusory energy, ocean of illusory energy.

*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



*So Kṛṣṇa is adventing today. There is stotra by the demigods. We should read, how Kṛṣṇa protects the demigods or the devotees. We should seek protection of Kṛṣṇa. This world is so dangerous. It is said, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. Every step there is danger. But if we take shelter, samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ, if we take shelter of the lotus feet of Murāri, under whose lotus feet the whole mahat-tattva, cosmic manifestation, is resting, then this big ocean of birth and death, we can cross very easily. Vatsa-padam. Vatsa-padam means the impression by the hoof of a calf and the water contained in it. The whole ocean becomes like a spot, a small spot, created by the impression of the hoof. That is called vatsa-padam.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for this purpose. We are requesting and training the bewildered living entities who have forgotten Kṛṣṇa to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that he may be saved from the onslaught of material nature. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the greatest humanitarian welfare activities to the human society. Take it very seriously and be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



690905VP.HAM

*Śrī Vyāsa*-pūjā

-

Hamburg, September 5, 1969



Prabhupāda: Now you can discuss amongst... You can speak something, what you have experienced about your spiritual master. You can speak. Anyone can speak. (Hindi) They may not go, but they'll take prasāda. Why you are going? Please sit down. (Hindi)



*Mukunda: Nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale, śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine. [break]



*Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is not that a particular man is spiritual master. Spiritual master is a truth. So what is that truth? The truth is saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. The whole world is in the blaze of material pangs, threefold miseries. And a person who is authorized to deliver people from that material pangs, he is called spiritual master. The example is given in this verse, saṁsāra-dāvānala. Dāvānala is the Sanskrit word. The English equivalent is forest fire. Just like in the forest in this part of the world there are sometimes forest fire, and government has arrangement to pour water from up. There are so many arrangement. But forest fire there is, a fact. And what is this forest fire? The forest fire... Nobody has got any interest to set fire in the forest, but it takes place automatically. And when the forest fire is there, all the animals within the forest, they become so much disturbed. They cannot escape. They die, especially the snakes. Because snakes are always envious, so they are first off to be burned into that forest fire. They cannot go very swiftly. Others, tigers and other beasts, they go away. But the snake, they crawl. They cannot get out. Mostly they burn. So this example is given to this materialistic life as forest fire because nobody wants any disturbance, but disturbance is created. Actually I am seeing. Since I have come to this part of the world in 1965, so many boys are chased by the government draft board. You see? They belong to the independent nation, and formerly they were independent. And what is this nonsense independence? You see? Simply nonsense. There is no independence. But we are thinking, "I am independent." "Oh, that nation has become independent. I shall become independent." Just like one of my students said he wanted to be anarchist.



So these false notions, isms, are going on. People are being misled. You see? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Practical experience: In my country, India, I was also a student of Gandhi. In 1920 I joined the noncooperation movement and gave up my education because Gandhi's program was to boycott the British educational institution. So most of the university students... I was also. I passed my final examination, B.A., but I gave up. I did not appear, and I joined this movement. Fortunately, in 1922 I also met my Guru Mahārāja, and he, on my first visit, I do not know why, he told that "You should preach this Caitanya philosophy to the outside world." I replied that "We are dependent nation. Who will hear us? In the world, nobody hears any person who is coming from dependent nation, so we must have first of all independence." A young man I was at that time, and I was also misled in so many ways. But my spiritual master saved me, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja.

*So the spiritual master's duty is to save the living entities who are so much embarrassed by the forest fire. That is the duty of spiritual master. Saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. The whole world is blazing, and just like in the blazing fire of the forest, the animals are going here and there, and some of them are dying, the whole world is like that. And how that blazing fire can be extinguished? You cannot send there this fire brigade, or you cannot get some pots of water and try to extinguish that wide fire. It is not possible. Then how to extinguish it? The extinguishing is possible when there is cloud overhead and there is incessant pouring of water. Then the forest fire extinguished. No artificial means, no scientific means. Fire brigade or this fire extinguisher, we have invented so many things, but when there is forest fire all these things are nonsense. Nothing can be used. The only use, means, is when there is pouring, incessant pouring of water from the cloud. That is made of God. That is not in your hand. You cannot produce cloud. Some arrangement of God's arrangement, the cloud, is there. Ghanāghanatvam. The example is given, "Charitable just like the cloud." Why this example is given? When cloud pours water, it is so sufficient that there is no comparison. But if you want to pour water, a bucketful of water, how long you will do it?

So spiritual master means he must be just like the cloud. How it is possible? It is possible. It is possible in this way, provided he follows the disciplic succession of spiritual master. Then it is possible. He must inherit the power from the superior source. Then it is possible that by his teaching, by his lessons, the forest fire which is burning within our heart, it can be extinguished, and the person who receives such spiritual instruction bona fidely, he becomes satisfied. This is the process. So,

*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇārṇavasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*Now, this spiritual master's succession is not very difficult. Of course, my students, they offer me so much respect, but all these respects are due to my spiritual master. I am nothing. I am just like peon. Just like peon delivers one letter. He is not responsible for what is written in that letter. He is not responsible for what is written in that letter. He simply delivers. But a peon's duty is that he must sincerely carry out the order of the postmaster and deliver the letter to the proper person. That is their duty. Similarly, this paramparā system is like that. Every one of us should become a spiritual master because the world is in blazing fire. (aside:) You can give them prasādam. Now, of course, time is very high. So to understand the spiritual master... Spiritual master is not a new invention. It is simply following the orders of the spiritual master. So all my students present here who are feeling so much obliged... I am also obliged to them because they are helping me in this missionary work. At the same time, I shall request them all to become spiritual master. Every one of you should be spiritual master next. And what is their duty? Whatever you are hearing from me, whatever you are learning from me, you have to distribute the same in toto without any addition or alteration. Then all of you become the spiritual master. That is the science of becoming spiritual master. Spiritual master is not any... To become a spiritual master is not very wonderful thing. Simply one has to become sincere soul. That's all. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "By disciplic succession this yoga process of Bhagavad-gītā was handed down from disciple to disciple. But in course of time that disciplic succession is now lost. Therefore, Arjuna, I am teaching you again the same philosophy."



*So this is the process. Simply if we... Therefore Vedic knowledge is called śruti. One has to hear it properly, assimilate it, and then practice it in life and preach the same thing. Then everyone becomes spiritual master. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra 'sarva*-deśa: "O My dear disciples, I tell you that you, all of you, become spiritual master. Simply you carry out My order. That's all." "And what is Your order?" "The order is the same: yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Just like Kṛṣṇa gave instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, and if you simply place the instruction received from Bhagavad-gītā as it is..." I am publishing Bhagavad-gītā As It Is because in the market there were so many Bhagavad-gītā misinterpreted, but that is not the process of presenting Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā should be presented as it is. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is simply said that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But most books which you have seen in English lang..., they are trying to make minus Kṛṣṇa. That is their attempt. So what sort of Bhagavad-gītā is that? That should not be done. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. You should speak that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That is the preaching of Bhagavad-gītā.

*So today is called Vyāsa*-pūjā. Vyāsa-pūjā means the Vyāsadeva, Veda-vyāsa, who wrote the Vedic literature, he is the supreme spiritual master because he has given us the spiritual knowledge. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is..., nārāyaṇaṁ namāskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam [SB 1.2.4]. So Vyāsa. So this platform is called "the seat of Vyāsa." So spiritual master should be representative of Vyāsa. Then the instruction is complete, and the benefit is assured. So I do not wish to take much of your time. We will now distribute prasādam. And one thing, coincidence, the Vyāsa-pūjā means to observe the birthday of the spiritual master. That is called Vyāsa-pūjā. And so today, this Nandotsava day, fortunately, seventy-three years ago I was born on this date. So this date, Nandotsava, is also a very fortunate occasion, because after Kṛṣṇa's birth, Mahārāja Nanda, the father of Kṛṣṇa, he celebrated a utsava, a ceremony, and this day is called Nandotsava. So a little I shall speak about Nandotsava. Nanda Mahārāja, he was a little elderly when Kṛṣṇa was born, and some of his friends came to congratulate, "My dear friend, you have got a son in your old age," and Nanda Mahārāja said amongst the friends that "How can you say I am old? An old man cannot beget a child. I am young man." So these things are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And all the villagers... Because, you know, Vṛndāvana is a village, a big village, and Nanda Mahārāja is the head of that village, Vṛndāvana, so all the people came to congratulate the child, and this is called Nandotsava. So one brāhmaṇa, he has spoken a nice verse in this connection. He said that śrutim apare smṛtim itare bhāratam anye bhajantu bhava-bhītāḥ. There are different kinds of Vedic literature: śruti, smṛti, Mahābhārata, Vedānta. So he says, "Let others read śruti, Vedic literatures, Vedānta-sūtra and Upaniṣad, and so many there are in Vedic literatures. Let others read that. But I have come here..." Aham iha nandaṁ vande: "I have come to worship Nanda Mahārāja. Nanda Mahārāja." "Why you have left everything and you have come to worship Nanda Mahārāja?" Yasyālinde paraṁ brahma: "Because in his courtyard the Supreme Personality of Godhead is crawling. The people are searching after what is God, and God is crawling in his yard. So therefore I do not find anyone more than Nanda Mahārāja, so I offer my respects to Nanda Mahārāja."

*So this is the feeling of a devotee. Generally, those who are followers of speculative process, or jñāna*-mārga, they finally reach to understand that he is one with the Supreme Absolute Truth. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. But the devotional service is so nice that a devotee is not satisfied that "I am one with the Supreme," but by his service he becomes greater than the Supreme. Just like Nanda Mahārāja. He is not anxious to become one with God, but he underwent so great penances that he became the father of God. That is possible. A devotee is so great that he can pray the Supreme Lord as his son. Of course, it is a very subtle science for understanding of spiritual knowledge. So today Nanda-mahotsava is celebrated because the father of Kṛṣṇa... Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. Although God is unborn and He is the Supreme, still, by love, He accepts one of His devotees as His father and appears as his son. So today is very nice day, that Kṛṣṇa has appeared. The Supreme Lord has appeared as the son of Nanda Mahārāja. So there is some arrangement of prasādam on account of Nanda Mahārāja. So you can distribute and enjoy.

Thank you very much. (end)

690905VE.HAM

*Śrī Vyāsa*-pūjā Lecture Conclusion



*Prabhupāda: All this eulogization about me, people, outsider, may think that "This man is being flattered and he is hearing his own eulogization." But that is not the fact. It is the test, how they are receiving the message sincerely and they (are) expressing their feeling. So it is going to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As it has come through the channel of disciplic succession, all these praises will also reach to Kṛṣṇa through that disciplic succession. So it is not personal thing. These things are required. Just like in the military training, they are taught by the officers in a different way, in so many ways. Similarly, this is also training of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the feeling of pure consciousness will reach to Kṛṣṇa. I thank you all very much for your improving in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And... I am a sannyāsī, you know. I came here empty*-handed. So you are providing me. What can I do for you? I shall simply pray to Kṛṣṇa. Another thing, that don't be satisfied that you have understood. That's all. No. This should be distributed. Just like in my old age I have come to your country carrying the order of my spiritual master to distribute it. You are all young boys and girls; take this message and distribute it. The whole suffering humanity will be happy. That is our mission.



Thank you very much. (end)



720902VP.NV

Śrī Vyāsa Pūjā Address

-

New Vrindaban, September 2, 1972



*Prabhupāda: (chanting japa) Ladies and gentlemen, this ceremony... Of course, those who are my students, they know what is this ceremony. Those who are visitors, for their information, I may inform you something about this ceremony. Otherwise, it may not be misunderstood. A outsider may see it that "Why a person is being worshiped like God?" There may be some doubt. So this is the etiquette. This ceremony is called Vyāsa*-pūjā. Vyāsa. Vyāsa means the original author of Vedic literature. He is incarnation of Nārāyaṇa. He gave us all Vedic knowledge. He received the knowledge from Nārada. Nārada received the knowledge from Brahma. Brahmā received the knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. So in this way, by disciplic succession, we get transcendental knowledge.



*So Vyāsadeva... Formerly, before Vyāsadeva, say, five thousand years ago, before that time there was no need of written literature. People were so sharp in their memory that whatever they would hear from the spiritual master they would remember for life. The memory was so sharp. But in this age-it is called Kali-yuga*-we are reducing our bodily strength, our memory, power of memorizing, our feelings of sympathy for others, compassion, age, duration of life, religious propensities. In this way, in this age we are reducing everything. Every one of you can understand very easily. Formerly if somebody is attacked by another man, many persons will come to help him: "Why this man is attacked?" But at the present moment if one man is attacked, the passersby will not care for it because they have lost their sympathy or mercifulness for others. Our neighbor may starve, but we don't care for it. But formerly the sympathy for other living entities, even for an ant... Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, while he was touring on his kingdom, he saw that one man was trying to kill a cow. Parīkṣit Mahārāja saw. Immediately he took his sword that "Who are you? You are killing a cow in my kingdom?" Because the king is supposed, or the government is supposed to give everyone protection, not that the government is meant for giving protection to the human being and not to the animals. Because it is Kali-yuga, the government discriminates between two nationals. National means one who has taken birth in the land. That is called national. That is... You know, everyone. So the trees, they are also born in the land, the aquatics also born in the land. The flies, the reptiles, the snakes, the birds, the beasts, human beings-everyone is born in that land. Suppose your land, America, United States... Why the government should give protection to one class of living entities, rejecting others? This means they have lost their sympathy for others. This is Kali-yuga. Formerly, before Kali-yuga, unnecessarily even an ant would not be killed. Even an ant. There are many instances that a hunter who was taking advantage of killing animals, but when he became a devotee he was not prepared to kill even an ant.

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that it makes a person perfect in everything: perfect in knowledge, perfect in strength, perfect in age, everything. We need so many things. So this perfection of life, the process how to make life perfect, is coming down from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, He is the origin of everything. Therefore the knowledge of perfection is also coming from Him, and periodically-periodically means after millions and millions of years-Kṛṣṇa comes. He comes once in a day of Brahmā. So Brahmā's days, even one day, the span of one day, it is very difficult to calculate. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brāhmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. The Brahmā's one day means about 433,000,000's of years. So in each day of Brahmā, Kṛṣṇa comes, once in a day. That means after a period of 433,000,000's of years He comes. Why? To give perfect knowledge of life, how a human being should live to make his life perfect. So the Bhagavad-gītā is there, spoken by Kṛṣṇa in this millennium, in this day. Now Brahmā's one day we are passing through the twenty-eighth millennium. No, twenty-eighth... In Brahmā's day there are seventy*-one Manus, and one Manu lives for... That is also many millions of years, seventy-two millenniums.

So we are not interested now about calculation the perfect knowledge. This perfect knowledge comes from God, or Kṛṣṇa, and it is distributed by paramparā system, by disciplic succession. The example is just there, a mango tree. On the top of the mango tree there is a very ripened fruit, and that fruit has to be tasted. So if I drop the fruit from up, it will be lost. Therefore it is handed over, after one, after one, after... Then it comes down. So all Vedic process of knowledge is taking from the authority. And it comes down through disciplic succession. Just like I have already explained, Kṛṣṇa gives the knowledge, perfect knowledge, to Brahmā, and Brahmā gives the knowledge to Nārada. Nārada gives the knowledge to Vyāsa. Vyāsa gives the knowledge to Madhvācārya. Madhvācārya gives the knowledge to his disciplic succession, later on, to Mādhavendra Purī. Mādhavendra Purī gives that knowledge to Īśvara Purī. Īśvara Purī gives that knowledge to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Caitanya. He delivers that knowledge to His immediate disciples, six Gosvāmīs. The six Gosvāmīs delivers the knowledge to Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, Jīva Gosvāmī. Then Kavirāja Gosvāmī, then Viśvanātha Cakravartī, then Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī, then Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, then Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, then my spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. Then we are distributing the same knowledge.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! Haribol!



Prabhupāda: We don't manufacture knowledge, because how we can manufacture? Perfect knowledge means I must be perfect. But I am not perfect. Every one of us, when I was speaking, because... We are not perfect because in our conditional life we have got four defects. The first defect is that we commit mistake. Any one of us who are sitting here, nobody can vouchsafe that he has not committed any mistake in life. No, that is natural. "To err is human." In our country, even a personality like Mahātmā Gandhi, he committed so many mistakes. So to commit mistake is not unusual. It is usual for any man. Then again, one is illusioned. Illusioned means accepting something for something. Just like every one of us, we accept this body as ourself, but actually we are not, everyone. On this bodily concept of life the whole trouble is there in the whole trouble is there in the world. I am thinking "Indian"; you are thinking "American"; he is thinking "dog"; he is thinking "cat"; because on this bodily concept of life. So this is illusion because I am not this body, you are not this body. Because at the time of death we can understand the body is there, but my relative is crying, "Oh, my son is gone." "My father is gone." Where he is gone? The body is there. Where is your father gone? No. Then we can... After death we can understand that "My father or my son was not this body. He was something else." So this is called illusion.



So mistake, illusion, and cheating. Everyone wants to cheat others. This is the dealing. Suppose we are businessman, making some agreement. So I am trying to make the agreement in my favor; you are trying to make the agreement in your favor. I am thinking, "I have cheated this person. I am so clever." You see? So the cheating propensity is there, even we hide something. Even husband and wife, we cheat one another, what to speak of man... Even sometimes father and son, what to speak of other relation. So cheating propensity is... First that we commit mistake, we are illusioned, we cheat, and at the end, all our senses are imperfect. Just like we are very much proud of seeing. Everyone says, "Can you show me? I want to see." And what can you see? What is the power of seeing? At night, if there is no sunshine, you cannot see, so what is the use of your seeing? If there is wall, you cannot see what is beyond the wall. You are seeing every day the sun, but we are seeing just like a small disc. But actually it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. Similarly, we cannot see which is situated a very long distance. We cannot see even the eyelid which is actually with the eyes. But we cannot see it. In this way, if you study, every one of your senses you will find imperfect.

*So your senses are imperfect, you are cheating, you are illusioned, and you commit mistake. How you can give perfect knowledge? Therefore we don't accept any knowledge from an imperfect personality. Because that is imperfect knowledge, what is the use of that knowledge? Theorizing. No theory. We want to know fact. That is perfect knowledge. So that perfect knowledge can come from God. And one who distributes that knowledge exactly as God has said, he is perfect. Just like a post peon comes and delivers you, say, one hundred dollars. So he is not delivering that one hundred dollars. Your friend has sent you one hundred dollars, and his business is to hand over that one hundred dollars as it is, without any change, without taking one dollar from it, no, or adding. No addition, no subtraction. His honesty, his perfection, is that he delivers you that hundred dollars which is sent by your friend. That is his honest..., perfection. He may be imperfect in so many others ways, but when he does his business perfectly, he is perfect. Similarly, our, this Vyāsa*-pūjā means we receive perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa through the agency of spiritual master.

*So this Vyāsa*-pūjā means one day in a year, on the birthday of the spiritual master, because he is representative of Vyāsa, he is delivering the same knowledge which has come down by disciplic succession without any change, he is offered the respect. This is called Vyāsa-pūjā. And the spiritual master receives all honor, all contribution, on behalf of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, not for his person. Just like in our country when there was British rule, there was a viceroy, a king's representative. So naturally, when viceroy used to go to some meeting, many people used to present valuable jewels, valuable, because just to honor him. But the law was that not a single of the jewels or contribution the viceroy could touch. It was going to the royal treasury. The viceroy could accept on behalf of the king all contribution, but it goes to the king. Similarly, this day, Vyāsa-pūjā day, whatever honor, contribution and feelings is being offered to the spiritual master, it is... Again, as we have received the knowledge from upwards, similarly, this respect also goes from downward to the upward. This is the process. So as the spiritual master is teacher of the student, he has to teach the disciple how to send back his respect and contribution to God. This is called Vyāsa-pūjā.

*So spiritual master is respected as good as God. Why? Sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. They have already chanted this song. Samasta-śāstraiḥ, in all Vedic literatures. Samasta, all. Samasta means all. Śāstra means Vedic literature. The all the śāstras in Vedic literature, they have declared that spiritual master is as good as God. Not God, but as good as God. The Māyāvādī, they think that the spiritual master is also God. No. We Vaiṣṇava, we don't accept that theory. But actually how a man can become God? No. But because he is God's representative, he is honored as God, not that he has become God. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Just like you have got a dear son. If somebody pats your son, even pats your dog, you become pleased. So the spiritual master is very confidential servant, dog of God. Therefore if you can please him, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If you can please the spiritual master, then God is pleased. Just like your small child. If somebody pleases that child, you become automatically pleased. You can please that child with a two-cent-worth lozenges. But to please you it may require thousands of dollars. So you can finish the business by offering a lozenges.

*So this is the position of a spiritual master. Don't misunderstand that "This person is sitting very comfortably and taking all honors and contribution." It is needed just to teach them how to respect the representative of God. This is the sum and substance of Vyāsa*-pūjā.

Thank you very much. (end)



730822VP.LON

*Śrī Vyāsa*-pūjā Lecture

-

London, August 22, 1973



*Prabhupāda: My dear sons and daughters, I am so much obliged to you that you have become so enthusiastic for offering Vyāsa*-pūjā. Now try to understand. Several times we have explained why this function is called Vyāsa-pūjā. I have already explained in the morning, this offering worshiping, one may think that this man is teaching his disciples man-worshiping, anthropomorphism. But it is not man-worshiping. One should not misunderstand. Vyāsadeva is the original spiritual master. Original spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa. From Kṛṣṇa, Brahmā was initiated, Lord Brahma. Tene brahma hṛdāya ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that when Brahmā was created, it was all darkness within the universe. He could not understand what is the purpose of his becoming there. Then he engaged himself in tapasya, and he was initiated from within.



*Kṛṣṇa is within everyone. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So He is called caitya-guru, means guru within the heart. And when Kṛṣṇa understands... Because Kṛṣṇa knows everything, whatever we are willing, whatever we are doing. He is the Paramātmā; *He's sitting within our hearts as witness. Anumanta upadṛṣṭā. Upadṛṣṭā means simply observing what we are doing, and what we are desiring. So as we desire, Kṛṣṇa is very kind, He gives us facility. We have many times explained. Therefore, we have got varieties of bodies to enjoy this material world. So when Kṛṣṇa sees that a living entity is very anxious to understand Him or to revive his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa gives him all opportunity, especially by manifesting Himself as the spiritual master. Antar bahiḥ. The spiritual master is therefore Kṛṣṇa's manifestation*-Kṛṣṇa's mercy manifestation to help a person to develop his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. From within He's helping. Therefore, He's called caitya-guru, and from without, He sends His representative to help how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Therefore, to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness we require two kinds of help*-one from Kṛṣṇa and another from the spiritual master. It is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta... You'll be glad now that Caitanya-caritāmṛta is now published. (devotees: Jaya! Haribol!) Yes. (This) It is the... Our Paṇḍitjī, Pradyumna, he has presented. Actually, he has worked for it, although I have translated. But I am very much indebted to him that he very carefully edits and makes the thing very perfect. So, now we have got translation of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, and Sanskrit portion... Because mostly there is Sanskrit portion, so, so my beloved disciple, Pradyumna, I call him Paṇḍit Mahāṣaya, because he is actually doing the paṇḍita's work. So he edits and he works very hard. And... Not only that, his wife also helps in this connection. So actually, that is wanted.

kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāse kene naya

ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya



*I'm sometimes criticized by my Godbrothers that I have become a marriage*-maker, because a sannyāsī does not take part in a marriage ceremony, but I get my disciples married. This is also unique in the history. So they criticize me that I have become a marriage-maker. But they, they do not know why I take this risk. I have got many disciples, they are married couples, but all of them, husband and wife, they are helping this movement. Here is Bhagavān dāsa, he's also married man, children.



So actually, married couples should be paramahaṁsas. Paramahaṁsa means the topmost stage of sannyāsī. Paramahaṁsa. A sannyāsī has got four stages: kuṭicaka, bahudaka, parivrājakācārya and paramahaṁsa. A sannyāsī, in the beginning, he's supposed to make a small cottage, just on the border of the village, does not go home, but the, his necessities are supplied by his home, but he does not go home. This is called kuṭicaka. Then gradually, when he is practiced, he begs from home to home. He does not anymore depend on his own home. (aside:) Stop this. That is called bahudaka. Bahudaka means collecting his necessity from many places. And then as he becomes practiced, he becomes parivrājakācārya. He goes from place to place, village to village, preaching the message of Kṛṣṇa. As our Śrīman Revatīnandana Mahārāja is doing. He has now very nice bus. All others also doing. Gṛhasthas are also doing. Because our only business is Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether a gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsī. It doesn't matter. So when he preaches all over the world, that is called parivrājakācārya. And when he's experienced, he executes the work by his assistants. That is called paramahaṁsa. So gṛhasthas are supposed to be paramahaṁsa. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he was gṛhastha, magistrate, government servant, but he has worked so much for Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu in writing books. Not only writing books, but also begetting a child like Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, my spiritual master. So that is gṛhastha. They should produce children like Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja. Because we want big stalwart men to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*So everyone has got duty in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and this duty is taught by Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. Guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. Anyone who is coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's not ordinary living being. Anyone who is connected with our movement, he's not ordinary living being. Actually, he's liberated soul. And I am very much hopeful that my disciples who are now participating today, even if I die, my movement will not stop, I am very much hopeful. Yes. All these nice boys and girls who have taken so seriously... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura wanted that European and American people may understand the philosophy of Caitanya cult and take part in it. That was his desire. My Guru Mahārāja, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, he also attempted to send his disciples to preach Caitanya cult in the Western world. One of them, he advised me also. First meeting, perhaps you know, he asked me to preach. So at that time I was young man, only twenty-five years old, and I was also householder. So I should have joined and executed his desire immediately, but due to my ill luck I could not immediately execute his order, but it was in my heart that it is to be done. So better late than never, I executed his order at the age of seventy years, not at the age of twenty-five. So actually I wasted so much time, I can understand that. From twenty... The message was there when I was twenty-five years old, but I began at the age of seventy years. But I did not forget the message. Otherwise, how could I do? That was, that is a fact. I was simply finding out the opportunity, how to do it. So anyway, although I began very late, at the age of seventy years, so by the help of my disciples this movement is gaining ground and is spreading all over the world. So therefore I have to thank you. It is all due to you. It is not my credit, but it is your credit that you are helping me in executing the order of my Guru Mahārāja.

*So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you already know, that this is a most essential, most important movement to the human society. Last night the Ambassador of India, His Excellency Rasagotra, he was present here. He also appreciated that this movement is very important movement, and he was very pleased that I have done so much. So this movement will go on. Nobody can stop. So this Vyāsa*-pūjā ceremony means to offer our thanks to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because He is is the original guru. As we receive this message through paramparā system from Kṛṣṇa to Brahmā, Brahmā to Nārada, Nārada to Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva to Madhvācārya, in this way, Mādhavendra Purī, then Īśvara Purī, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then six Gosvāmīs, then others, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī, Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. Then we have taken. So this, as we come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness understanding through this long paramparā, similarly, in the Vyāsa-pūjā ceremony, whatever respect, honor, and presentation you give, that goes to Kṛṣṇa through that paramparā system, from down. As it is received through the paramparā system, so similarly, your offerings also goes through this paramparā system to the Supreme. The connection.

*Our system is gopī-bhārtur pāda-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. It is sometimes called bureaucracy. If you apply something, at least in India, to the President, you'll have to submit to the local collector. The collector will submit to somebody else, somebody else, then secretary, you go. Then to the President. So our system is that. So it is not that I am training my disciples to worship me, man-worship, I'm getting some honor from them for nothing. No. It is not that. Whatever honor, whatever respect, whatever presentation you are giving to your spiritual master, it will go to Kṛṣṇa by paramparā system. This is Vyāsa-pūjā. Therefore, it is called Vyāsa-pūjā. Vyāsa-pūjā means Vyāsadeva is the original guru. After Brahma, Nārada, then Vyāsa. And Vyāsa is original guru, because from his literature we understand spiritual knowledge. All these literatures whatever we have produced, they are actually originally from Vyāsadeva. The four Vedas, Brahma-sūtra, Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, they are called Vedic literature. And whatever is written with the conclusion of this Vedic literature, that is also Vedic literature. Just like our books. All our books, they are not mental speculation. Whatever I have learned from my Guru Mahārāja, I am presenting. That's all. It is not mental speculation*-this philosophy, that philosophy. We kick out all these things. Unless we get the knowledge from the authorized source, we don't accept. Because how we can accept? A so-called philosopher, scientist, according to... Why according? Everyone can understand that however great philosopher, scientist one may be, he is imperfect. He's imperfect. Every man. I have several times recited this example that in our country Gandhi was very big politician. You know Mahatma Gandhi. He committed so many mistakes. At last he committed such a great mistake that he was killed. That's a long history. So even a great person like Mahatma Gandhi, he commits mistake. Therefore, the śāstra says any conditioned soul, he must commit mistake. However great he may be in the estimation of fools and rascals. Sva-viḍ-varāhostra. He must commit mistake, he must be illusioned, his propensity is to cheat, and at the end, all the senses are imperfect. We have several times described. So, so much imperfectness, how he can give perfect knowledge?

*Therefore, a so*-called philosopher, scientist's knowledge is always imperfect. The perfect knowledge can be received through this paramparā system. From Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa to Brahmā, Brahmā to Nārada, Nārada to Vyāsa, Vyāsa to Madhvācārya. In this way, from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, six Gosvāmīs, then our Guru Mahārāja, in this way. And our business is just to present whatever we have heard. This is very important point. And because we do not speculate mentally, just like so many svāmīs comes from India. They make their own presentation by speculation. So whatever little success I have got, it is due to this process, that I do not present anything which is created by me. That is the secret of success. All these rascals, I say, declare in this, all these rascals come, they manufacture. A spiritual thing cannot be manufactured-as God cannot be manufactured. God is always God, and the words of God is also God. If we present as it is, then it will be effective. That is said in the śāstra:

*satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya*-saṁvido

*bhavanti hṛt*-karna-rasāyanaḥ kathāḥ

*taj*-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani

śraddhā bhaktir ratir anukramiṣyati

[SB 3.25.25]



*Everything is there. Satāṁ prasaṅgān. From a bona fide spiritual master you receive knowledge, because he will present as he has received from his spiritual master. He'll not adulterate or manufacture something. That is the bona fide spiritual master. And that is very easy. To become spiritual master is not very difficult thing. You'll have to become spiritual master. You, all my disciples, everyone should become spiritual master. It is not difficult. It is difficult when you anufacture something. But if you simply present whatever you have heard from your spiritual master, it is very easy. If you want to become overintelligent, to present something, to interpret something, whatever over you have heard from spiritual master you can make some further addition, alteration, then you'll spoil whole thing. Then you'll spoil whole thing. Don't make addition or alteration. Simply present as it is. Therefore, we have begun Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. Don't try to become over spiritual master. Then you'll spoil. Remain always a servant of your spiritual master and present the thing as you have heard. You'll be spiritual master. This is secret. You should know it. Don't try to become overintelligent. That will spoil. Evam paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. This is the... So (child talking) you can stop.(?)



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha, tāre kaha, 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Just see. It is very nice. You'll find in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, now it is published. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He is the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. He says, āmāra ājñāya. "Whatever I say, āmāra ājñāya, by My order, you become a spiritual master." Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So one may be very illiterate, no education, or no scholarship, may not be born in brāhmaṇa family, or may not be a sannyāsī. There are so many qualification. But one may not have all these qualifications. He may be rascal number one, but still, he can become spiritual master. How? Āmāra ājñāya. As Kṛṣṇa says, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, if you follow, then you become spiritual master. One may be rascal number one from material estimation, but if he simply strictly follows whatever is said by Caitanya Mahāprabhu or His representative spiritual master, then he becomes a guru.



*So it is not very difficult. One may not think that "I am not qualified to become guru." No, you are qualified if you follow strictly the paramparā system. Then you are qualified. That's all. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā... And what is the difficulty? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Don't feel any difficulty." Because as spiritual master, what you have to do? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha, 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Whomever you meet, you simply speak to him the instruction which Kṛṣṇa gives. What Kṛṣṇa instruction gives? That is also very easy. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Kṛṣṇa says "Just become My devotee, always think of Me, offer Me obeisances, and worship Me." So here is Kṛṣṇa. If you simply think "Here is Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa Deity," you may be fool number, rascal number one. That doesn't matter. But you are getting impression of this Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, think of Him: "Oh, how nicely Kṛṣṇa is decorated." This much. No erudite scholarship. Simply... Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Here is Deity. Worship Him nicely as it is regulated principle. Even you are not worshiping, simply think of Kṛṣṇa, "Here is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Impression. What is the difficulty? As soon as you see Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, you get some impression. Think of that impression. Where is the difficulty? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. "Worship me." If you have got opportunity, worship. If you are initiated, worship here. Or you install Deity at home, as our Kṣīrodakaśāyī Prabhu is doing. Everyone can do it. Where is the difficulty? Now ask him how he is happy. The whole family is happy. Not only he. But his wife, his children, everyone is happy. Practical. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. And if you cannot do anything, simply come and offer your obeisances: "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I am so poor, so unfortunate, I cannot do all these things, but I offer my humble obeisances unto Your lotus feet." That much also. If you do this, you become spiritual master.

*So, simply by accepting this principle, and even if you are not learned, illiterate, you are hearing so much from Bhagavad*-gītā, you simply repeat that. Simply repeat that. There is no question of becoming very learned scholar. God has given you this ear. Even if you are blind, you cannot read, you can hear. So kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, what is Kṛṣṇa...? This is 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. And at last, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you simply preach this cult, "My dear friend, my dear brother, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa," you become spiritual master. You become spiritual master. You go door to door. No other talks. Simply say, "My dear friend, you are very nice, you are very learned." That was adopted by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī.

dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya

kaku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi

he sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād

*caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam (sic)



*The meaning is the preaching, very easy. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakam. According to Indian system, if you put a grass on your mouth, it is a sign of that you have become very humble. If you approach a person with a grass in your mouth, he'll immediately know that you are coming there with very, very great humbleness. Therefore dante nidhāya. This was the system. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakam, and touching his feet. Immediately, touch his feet. Immediately, even if he's enemy, he'll be a friend. Even if he's your enemy, it is so nice process. Take a grass on your mouth and immediately fall on his feet, padayor nipetya, and with folded hands, much flattering. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kaku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca. All flattering words. Ahaṁ bravīmi. So immediately he will agree, "Yes, what you say I'll hear. I'll hear." Immediately, convert to hear you at least. Just see how perfect process is. "Then what is your purpose, sir? Why you are becoming so humble, meek? And now say." "Yes sir, I'll say." What is that? He sādhavaḥ, "You are a great sādhu." Although he may be rascal number one. Still, you call him, he sādhavaḥ. "Yes, I am sādhu, yes. What is your proposal?" "Now kindly forget all nonsense, whatever you have learned. That's all. I am flattering you because I want that you forget everything, all these yogis and this and that and that and meditation. Please kick out all these." "Then what I have to do?" "Caitanya*-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. Just adhere yourself to the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you become spiritual master. That's all."



So I hope that all of you, men, women, boys and girls, become spiritual master, and follow this principle. Spiritual master, simply, sincerely, follow the principles and speak to the general public. Then Kṛṣṇa immediately becomes your favorite. Kṛṣṇa does not become your favorite; *you become Kṛṣṇa's favorite. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ: "One who is doing this humble service of preaching work, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody is dearer than him to Me." So if you want to become recognized by Kṛṣṇa very quickly, you take up this process of becoming spiritual master, present the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Your life is perfect.

Thank you very much. (end)



760819VP.HYD

*Śrī Vyāsa*-pūjā Lecture

-

Hyderabad, August 19, 1976



(Śrīla Prabhupāda's lecture is preceded by several speeches in Hindi and one in English by a disciple.)



*Prabhupāda: Śrīpada Sampatkumar Bhaṭṭācārya, ladies and gentlemen: I must thank you for your kindly coming here during this Vyāsa*-pūjā ceremony. Vyāsa-pūjā...This āsana where they have seated me, it is called vyāsāsana. The guru is the representative of Vyāsadeva. Everyone of you have heard the name of Vyāsadeva, Veda Vyāsa. So anyone who represents the great ācārya, Vyāsadeva, he is allowed to sit on the vyāsāsana. So Vyāsa-pūjā... Guru is representative of Vyāsadeva, therefore his birthday is accepted as Vyāsa-pūjā.



*Now I must explain my position because in these days, a person being worshiped as most exalted personality is something revolution. Because they like democracy, by vote somebody should be elevated however rascal he may be. But our this system, guru*-paramparā system, is different. Our system, if you do not accept the Vedic knowledge through guru-paramparā system, it is useless. You cannot manufacture an interpretation of the Vedic language. Just like cow dung. Cow dung is the stool of an animal. Vedic injunction is that if you touch cow dung..., any stool of an animal, you have to take immediately bath and purify yourself. But the Vedic injunction is also that cow dung can purify any impure place. Especially we Hindus, we accept it. Now by reason it is contradictory. The stool of an animal is impure, and the Vedic injunction is cow dung is pure. Actually we accept cow dung as pure to purify any place. Out of panca-gavya the cow dung is there, cow urine is there.

*So it appears contradictory, the Vedic injunction. But still we accept because it is Vedic order. That is... That is the acceptance of Vedas. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, there are so many rascals, they cut short: "I like this; *I do not like this." No. Arjuna says sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye [Bg. 10.14]. That is understanding of Vedas. If a rascal makes cut, cutting, "I do not like this, I interpret" this is not Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā means you have to accept as it is. That is Bhagavad-gītā. We are presenting therefore Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Kṛṣṇa says, the speaker of the Bhagavad-gītā, He says sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. "My dear Arjuna, this Bhagavad-gītā science," imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1], "I spoke first of all to the sun-god, and he spoke to his son," vivasvān manave prāha. To Vaivasvata Manu. Manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. This is the process. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Anyone who does not come through this paramparā system, if he presents any interpretation of Vedic literature, it is useless. It is useless. It has no meaning. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So that is going on. It has no meaning. You cannot interpret on the words of God. That is not possible. And dharma means dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. You cannot manufacture at your home a kind of religious system. That is rascaldom, that is useless. Dharma means sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam. Just like the law. Law means what is given by the government. You cannot manufacture law at your home. Suppose in the street, common sense, the government law is keep to the right or keep to the left. You cannot say "What is the wrong there if I go to the right or left?" No, that you cannot. Then you'll be criminal. Similarly nowadays... Not nowadays-from time immemorial there are so many religious systems. So many. But real religious system is what God says or Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is religion. Simple. You cannot manufacture.

*Therefore in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, the beginning is dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. So the... Somebody may envy that this person has sophisticated some disciples and they are offering prayers and pūjā. No, it is the system. Don't envy the... Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. Ācārya is the representative of God. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. If you offer prayers, honor to the ācārya, then Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is pleased. To please Him you have to please His representative. "If you love me, love my dog." And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryopāsanam. We have to worship the ācārya.

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathita hy arthaḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]



*This is the Vedic mantra. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12].



tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śabde pāre ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



*Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. So these are the injunction. The guru must come through the paramparā system. Then he is bona fide. Otherwise he is a rascal. Must come through the paramparā system, and in order to understand tad-vijñānam, transcendental science, you have to approach guru. You cannot say that "I can understand at home." No. That is not possible. That is the injunction of the all śāstra. Tasmād guruṁ prapad... Who requires a guru? Guru is not a fashion just like you keep a dog as a fashion, modern civilization, similarly we keep a guru. No, not like that. Who requires a guru? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]*-one who is actually serious to understand the science of spirit soul. Tad vijñānam. Oṁ tat sat. He requires a guru. Guru is not a fashion.



*So Kṛṣṇa says that ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān: [SB 11.17.27] "You accept ācārya as I am." Why? I see that he is a man. His sons call him father, or he looks like a man, so why he should be as good as God? Because he speaks as God speaks, that's all. Therefore. He does not make any change. Just like God says, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. The guru says that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa or God. The same word. God says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Guru says that you always think of Kṛṣṇa, you surrender unto Him, you offer Him prayer, you become His devotee. There is no change. Because he says as the Supreme Personality says, therefore he is guru. Even though you see that he is materially born, his behavior is like other men. But because he says the same truth as it is spoken in the Vedas or by the Personality of Godhead, therefore he is guru. Because he does not make any change whimsically, therefore he is guru. That is the definition. It is very simple. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has asked everyone to become guru. Everyone. Because there is need of guru. The world is full of rascals, therefore there is need of so many gurus to teach them. But what is that qualification of the guru? How everyone can become guru? This may be the question, next question. Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Ei deśa means wherever you are living you become a guru and deliver them. Suppose you are living in a small neighborhood, you can become a guru of that neighborhood and deliver them. "How it is possible? I have no education, I have no knowledge. How I can become guru and deliver them?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu said it is not at all difficult. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is your qualification. If you simply deliver the message given by Kṛṣṇa you become guru. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You preach, you request everyone, "Sir, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa." You become guru. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. You say that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you offer obeisances. Here is a temple; here is Kṛṣṇa. Please come here. You offer your obeisances, and if you can you offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ [Bg. 9.26]. You don't offer... But it is very simple thing. Anyone can secure a little flower, a little fruit, a little water. It is not at all difficult."

*So this is the guru's qualification. Guru does not show any magic or produce some wonderful things then he becomes guru. So practically I have done this. People are giving me credit that I have done miracles, but my miracle is that I carried the message of Caitanya Mahāprabhu: yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So this is the secrecy. So anyone of you, you can become guru. It is not that I am an extraordinary man, an extraordinary god coming from some mysterious place. It is not that*-it is very simple thing. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So I request you follow the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction that you also, you become a guru at your home. It is not that you have to make a gigantic show of becoming guru. The father has to become guru, the mother has to become guru. Actually, in the śāstra it is said one should not become father, one should not become mother if he does not become a guru to his children. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. If a person is unable to save his child from the clutches of birth and death, he should not become a father. This is real contraceptive method. Not that have sex like cats and dogs and when the child is there kill it and abortion. No. That is greatest sinful activity. Real contraceptive method is that if you are unable to deliver your son from the clutches of birth and death, do not become a father. That is wanted. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sa syāt guru na sa syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. If you cannot save your children from the clutches of birth...

*This is whole Vedic literature. Punar janma jayayaḥ. How to conquer over next birth, next material birth, they do not know. Foolish persons they have forgotten Vedic culture, what is the Vedic culture. Vedic culture is to conquer over the next birth, that's all. But they do not believe in the next birth. Ninety*-nine percent people, they have gone so down from the Vedic culture. The Bhagavad-gītā also the same philosophy is there. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is Vedic culture. Vedic culture means by the evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. Here is the chance of stopping transmigration of the soul from one body to another. Tathā dehāntara prāptir, and you do not know what kind of body I am going to get next. This body may be prime minister and next body may be dog by the laws of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham (iti manyate)

[Bg. 3.27]



They do not know. They have forgotten this culture. Misusing this human form of body like animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is not civilization. The civilization is punar janma jayayaḥ, how to conquer over next material birth. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore we are presenting so many literatures. It is being accepted all over the world, learned circle. Take advantage of this movement. We have tried to open, our humble attempt to open a center here. Do not be envious upon us. Kindly take mercy upon us. We are..., our humble attempt. And take advantage of it. That is our request.



Thank you very much. (end)



680830RA.MON

Rādhāṣṭamī:

Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī's Appearance Day

-

Montreal, August 30, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*...am aprameyam anaghaṁ nirvāṇa-śānti*-pradaṁ brahma-śambhu-phanīndras tebhyo 'niśaṁ vedānta-vedyaṁ vibhuṁ sura-guruṁ māyā-mānuṣya-hariṁ vande 'haṁ karunākaraṁ raghu-varaṁ bhū-pāla-cudāmaṇim

*This is a verse composed by a great devotee, Tulasī dāsa. He was a devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. So Lord Rāma and Lord Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. When we speak Kṛṣṇa, that means He includes all other incarnations. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said,



*rāmādi mūrtiṣu kalā*-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa is svayam. Kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo. Kṛṣṇa is paramaḥ pumān. Paramaḥ pumān means the ultimate Supreme Personality of Godhead. But He is always manifest in different incarnations, and of all the incarnation, Lord Rāma is the foremost, Balarāma. You have heard the name of Balarāma, Baladeva. Similarly Rāma, Rāma means the Supreme Enjoyer. Ramante yoginām anante sac*-cid-ānanda-cirātmanīti rāma-padenāsau. Rāma means real bliss, and all the yogis, either dhyāna-yogī or a jñāna-yogī or a bhakta-yogī... There are three kinds of yogis. Everyone tries to enjoy that eternal bliss, and that is real pleasure. Therefore Rāma.



*So this verse... Our, this respectable Indian lady, she will begin Rāmāyana... This Tulasī, actually it is not Rāmāyaṇa. It is called Rāma*-carita-manasa. Rāmāyaṇa means Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa, but people have taken it as Rāmāyaṇa. Actually, Tulasī dāsa has expressed his own feelings about his devotion to Lord Rāma, and therefore he has named it Rāma-carita-manasa, his mind full with service attitude for Lord Rāma. That is the real meaning of this book. But people have misinterpreted; *they are going on just it is Rāmāyaṇa. And Rāmāyaṇa, of course, anywhere where Rāma's activities are described, that is called Rāmāyaṇa. That is another sense. But real Rāmāyaṇa means the Rāmāyaṇa composed by Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa. Rāmāyaṇa composed by Maharṣi Vālmīki. And this is... It is a popular notion that this is Rāmāyaṇa, but actually this book is called Rāma*-carita-manasa. So some of the description of Rāma are there, but not all the description. Rather there are many differences from the original Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa. Anyway this is song of a devotee for his Lord Rāma. In that sense, you can call it Rāmāyaṇa, but this book is actually Rāma-carita-manasa.

*So in the fifth chapter, Sundara*-Khanda, it is a very nice verse. What is that? Śāntaṁ śāśvatam aprameyam anaghaṁ nirvāṇa-śānti-pradam. Each word is meaningful. Śāntam. The Lord is never disturbed. Why He shall be disturbed? Just like we are, in this material world, we are always disturbed in so many ways. The duration life is short, and we are always embarrassed with so many problems, political, social, religious, cultural, so many things. And family, maintenance of family is more difficult than maintaining an empire.

*So this material world is full of anxiety. I have several times explained, asad*-grahāt. Because we have accepted something which is not eternal. Anything which is not eternal will always create disturbance. But because the Lord is eternal, therefore He is śāntam. Whenever we'll find the face of Lord Kṛṣṇa or Rāma, Viṣṇu, you'll find smiling with peace. As soon as you'll see you become also peaceful. His very face is so nice. Śāntam. And śāśvatam. Śāṣvatam means original. It's not that Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, as the Māyāvādī philosophers say, that the impersonal Brahman appears in form. This is rascaldom. Actually, He appears in His own form, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. We are accepting this form not by our own potency. I have accepted this body, you have accepted this body, not by your own will. You have been forced to accept a particular type of body according to your work. You cannot make choice. Otherwise, everyone would have made his choice to take birth in America or some place like that, or heavenly planets. Oh, that is not choice. Just like if the foreigners, they apply for immigration, there is, the choice depends on the highest authority.

So similarly, this body is not śāśvatam. It is not my original body. This body is changing. I may have this body this time, I may have another body, another species of life; *therefore it is not śāśvatam. But the Lord's body is śāśvatam. As it is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, śāśvataṁ puruṣam, and He is enjoyer. So the same word is used here. Śāntaṁ śāśvatam aprameyam. Aprameyam means that cannot be measured. The Māyāvādīs, they cannot conceive how immeasurable, unlimited. Therefore as soon as they take it that God is unlimited, immeasurable, they take it for impersonal. They cannot conceive that God can assume any extensive form without any difficulty. Just like He appeared as Hiraṇya..., I mean to say, Varāhadeva. The Varāhadeva, He appeared in such a gigantic body that He could lift this whole planet by His tusk. So just imagine how much great body He assumed. So aprameyam. Another, He can assume so small body. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was within the womb of his mother, attacked by the atomic energy, so Kṛṣṇa entered the womb of his mother and saved him. Just imagine how small He became.

Therefore aprameyam means you cannot measure how He is small, how He is great. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they can think of greatness, but Kṛṣṇa can become small also. Just like Jagannātha, He is the master, He is the proprietor of the whole world, but He has assumed such a nice form that He is within our reach. We can serve Him very convenient. This is God. Therefore aprameyam, immeasurable. Immeasurable does not mean simply great. Immeasurable means you cannot measure even how small He is. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He is greater than the greatest and smaller than the smallest. Therefore aprameyam. Anagham. Anagham means this material contamination cannot touch Him. Etad īśasya īśānām. Īśa, the Supreme Lord, means that He may come in any form. Just like He appears as the boar, hog. That does not mean He is hog. Or even He acts like hog, still He is anagham. How it is possible? Because He's tejiyasaṁ na doṣayā [SB 10.33.29]. Tejiyasam...

*The example is that the sun. Sun is so powerful that he is soaking water from everywhere. He is soaking water even from the filthy place where people are passing urine and stool. But sunshine is so powerful that it is soaking water from the urine, urinals, and lavatory, latrine, but still sun is pure. And by the sun's contact that place also becomes pure. This is called purity. Even impure, even I am impure, if am in touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness then I also become pure. He does not become impure. We are so, I mean to say, teeny, that if I go to a contaminated place, I become contagious. I become infected with the contamination. But Kṛṣṇa or Rāma, They are so powerful that even a contaminated person approaches Him, He, it does not mean that Kṛṣṇa becomes contaminated*-the contaminated person becomes purified. This is very nice to understand. So anyone, with any aim, if he approaches Kṛṣṇa or Rāma, he becomes anagham. Nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa-śānti-pradam. This nirvāṇa means finishing. Śānti. This material life, material existence, is always full of threefold miseries.

*So Kṛṣṇa or Rāma can give you a position by which you can stop all this nonsense. Nirvāṇa-śānti*-pradaṁ brahma-śambhu-phanīndras tebhyo 'nīśam. Brahmā, the demigods, there are millions of demigods. Of all the demigods, Brahmā, Śiva and Brahmā, they are considered to be the chief. Brahmā, Śiva, Phanīndra. Phanīndra means Śeṣa. He's also incarnation of Viṣṇu. So all of them are engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. That means Viṣṇu is the Supreme, even superior than Lord Śiva. He has especially mentioned: brahmā-śambhu. Śambhu means Lord Śiva. Brahmā-śambhu-phanīndras tebhyo 'nīśaṁ vedānta-vedyaṁ vibhum. So Vedānta, Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So one who is in the ultimate knowledge, he can understand the Personality of Godhead Rāma and Kṛṣṇa. Those who have got little knowledge, or a mediocrity, they can go up to the impersonal Brahman, but they cannot enter into the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Rāma. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā by Arjuna, that "It is very difficult to understand Your personality."

*Actually we are experiencing, if we speak something impersonal, they think it is very learned speech, and when we speak of something personal they think it is old, old style. This is nonsense. Practically, the Personality of God is the ultimate knowledge, but men with poor fund of knowledge, a little stock of knowledge, they cannot understand. If He is impersonal, how Brahmā and Śambhu are engaged in His service? He is person. Brahmā-śambhu*-phanīndras tebhyo 'nīśam vedānta-vedyam. Vedānta-vedyam. These Māyāvādīs, they have Śaṅkarācārya, they have their Śārīraka-bhāṣya. They have tried to prove the Supreme Lord as imperson. This is not actually fact. Vedānta-vedyam. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam, vedānta-kṛt veda-vid eva cāham [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa says that all the Vedas, including Vedānta... If somebody says the Vedānta is describing impersonal Brahman, but Kṛṣṇa says that "How it can do?" Vedānta-vid, "I am the actual knower of Vedānta, I am actual composer of Vedānta. So I am the Supreme." So these Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand. They think that Vedānta...

*In India the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs are known as Vedāntī. Therefore my society, Vaiṣṇava society, has particularly given me this title, Bhaktivedanta. Vedānta means bhakti. It is a challenge to the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. This particular title was given after due consideration that my humble self should be awarded this title. It is new title amongst the Vaiṣṇava society. So the Māyāvādī philosophers they are sometimes surprised that "How Swamijī is Vedanti, at the same time bhakti?" But actually they do not know Vedānta means bhakti. Real Vedānta commentary is Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. Brahma-sūtra means this Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta-vedyam. Śiva-viriñci, that Lord Śiva or Lord Brahmā, they are trying to understand the Supreme. Flickering knowledge? No. Through the Vedānta. Vedānta. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. And vibhum, vibhum means the greatest. Nobody is greater than the Supreme Lord. Rāmākhyam jagad-īśvaram. And He is Rāma. We chant daily:

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare



*Rāmākhyam. Rāma means the ramanīyā, the beautiful, or the enjoyer, rāmākhyam. And jagad-īśvaram. And He is the master or the proprietor of the whole universes. Sura*-gurum. Sura means the demigods and gurum is spiritual master. Sura-gurum. Just like Arjuna is sura, and his guru is Kṛṣṇa. Vyāsadeva, his guru, Nārada; Nārada's guru is Brahmā; *Brahmā's guru is Kṛṣṇa. So sura*-gurum. māyā-manusyam. And when He appears as human being, that is māyā. māyā means actually He is not an ordinary man. He is the Supreme Personality of God, but the rascals they think that "Because Rāma and Kṛṣṇa has appeared like one of us, He is a man, He's an ordinary man." This is the version of the rascals. That Rāma, especially there is a class who are known as Ārya-samājīs. They do not agree that the Supreme Person can, Supreme God can appear as Rāma and Kṛṣṇa. They do not know that although He appeared as one of us in the form of human body, He is not a human being. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore it is called rāmākhya, māyā mānuṣya hari. He is the Hari... Hari means the Supreme Personality of Godhead who can give you all pleasure, taking all your miserable condition. He is Hari.



*So vande 'haṁ karuṇākaraṁ raghu*-varaṁ bhu-pāla-cuḍāmaṇi. So he is offering his respectful obeisances to the Lord Rāma. Karuṇākaram. He comes, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam [Bg. 4.8]. Therefore He is karuṇā-ākaram. Ākaram means mine. He is the great mine of mercy. Karuṇākaraṁ raghu-varam. And because He appeared in the dynasty of Mahārāja Raghu, so He is the Supreme Personality in the Raghu dynasty, raghu-varam. And bhu-pāla-cuḍāmaṇi. He is the helmet of all kings. Cuḍāmaṇi. Cuḍāmaṇi means, maṇi means pearl, and cuda means helmet. So the pearl is placed in the crown. So He is the, although He appeared as King, but He is the helmet of all kings. In this way, Lord Rāma's description is here. Now Mātājī requested me to explain one verse, so I have tried to explain.

Now today is our Rādhāṣṭami ceremony. I must speak now something about Rādhārāṇī, and then I shall go up, reach my apartment at twelve. In the meantime, you can observe the ceremonies. So, so far Rādhārāṇī, Rādhārāṇī, today is the birthday of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman. Just try to understand. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So when paraṁ brahma wants to enjoy... That enjoying spirit is there in the paraṁ brahma. Otherwise we cannot have this enjoying spirit. Because we are part and parcel, therefore we have got that enjoying spirit; *but that is materially contaminated. But the fact is there, because Kṛṣṇa, He is enjoying, this enjoying spirit we have got also, but I do not know how to enjoy. We are trying to enjoy in the matter, in the dull matter. That is spiritual. So brahman, brahman sukhānubhūtyā. People are trying to feel what is brahma*-sukha, pleasure of brahmānubhāva. That is not material pleasure. So many yogis, they have given up their family life, their kingdom, and meditating to achieve that Brahman pleasure. Actually, the idea is Brahman pleasure. So many brahmacārīs, so many sannyāsīs, they are trying to achieve that Brahman pleasure, and in order to achieve that Brahman pleasure they are neglecting, they are kicking off all this material pleasure. Do you think that Brahman pleasure is ordinary, this material pleasure? To achieve a portion of Brahman pleasure, if they are kicking off all this material pleasure... Don't talk of ourselves. We are ordinary men. In the history we have got instances, that of Bharata Mahārāja. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. That Bharata Mahārāja was the emperor of the whole world. And as emperor he had his beautiful wife, young children. But at the age of twenty-four years, just young man, he gave up everything. All right. This is very old story, of course, but you know Lord Buddha. He was also a prince. He was also prince, not ordinary man, and he was kṣatriya, and he was always enjoying with beautiful women. That is the palace pleasure accustomed in every, in Oriental countries, that in the palace there are many beautiful girls, they're always dancing and giving pleasure to the kings and the prince. So Lord Buddha was also in such pleasure, but he gave up everything and began to meditate.

*There are many hundreds of instances in Indian history that to realize the Brahman pleasure they gave up everything. They gave up everything. That is the way. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting something severe for realizing the supreme pleasure. That is called tapasya. So if, for tasting a little Brahman pleasure, all materialistic pleasures are to be given up, do you think that the Supreme Brahman, Lord Kṛṣṇa, is enjoying this material pleasure? Is it very reasonable? This Kṛṣṇa, He's enjoying lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. Hundreds and thousands of goddess of fortune are engaged in His service. Do you think these lakṣmīs are material women? How Kṛṣṇa can take pleasure in the material women? No. This is mistake. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. In the Brahma-saṁhitā you'll find that He expands His ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, the mellow of transcendental pleasure potency. And these gopīs are expansion of His pleasure potency. And Rādhārāṇī is the center. Rādhārāṇī is the center. So Rādhārāṇī is not... Don't take that Rādhārāṇī is an ordinary woman like we have our wife or sister or mother. No. She is the pleasure potency. And the birth of Rādhārāṇī was not from the womb of any human being. She was found by her father in the field. While father was plowing, he saw one little nice child is lying there, and he had no children, so he caught it and presented to the queen, "Oh, here we have got a very nice child." "How you got?" "Oh, in the field." Just see. Rādhārāṇī's janma is like that. So this janma is today and Rādhā, this name is sometimes not found in Bhāgavata. So the atheistic class of men protest this Rādhārāṇī's name is not in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. How this name came, Rādhārāṇī? But they do not know how to see it. There is anayārādhyate. There are many gopīs, but there is mention that by this particular gopī He is served more pleasingly. Kṛṣṇa accepts this gopī's service more gladly. Anayārādhyate. Ārādhyate. This ārādhate, this word, ārādhyate means worshiping. From this word ārādhyate, Rādhā has come. But Rādhā's name are there in other Purāṇas. So this is the origin.

*So Rādhā, so Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer and He wants to enjoy. So He's the Supreme Brahman. He cannot enjoy anything, ātmarāma, He can enjoy it in Himself. Therefore Rādhārāṇī is the expansion of His pleasure potency. Kṛṣṇa hasn't got to seek external things for His pleasure. No. He is in Himself full, ātmarāma. So Rādhārāṇī is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the energetic, and Rādhārāṇī is the energy. Just like energy and energetic, you cannot separate. Fire and the heat you cannot separate. Wherever there is fire there is heat, and wherever there is heat there is fire. Similarly, wherever there is Kṛṣṇa there is Rādhā. And wherever there is Rādhā there is Kṛṣṇa. They are inseparable. But He is enjoying. So Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī has described this intricate philosophy of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa in one verse, very nice verse. Rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau [Cc. Ādi 1.5]. So Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is the one Supreme, but in order to enjoy, They have divided into two. Again Lord Caitanya joined the two into one. Caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā. That one means Kṛṣṇa in the ecstasy of Rādhā. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa is in ecstasy of Rādhā. Sometimes Rādhā is in ecstasy of Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. But the whole thing is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa means the one, the Supreme.

*So Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa philosophy is a very great philosophy. It is to be understood in the liberated stage. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa philosophy is not to be understood in the conditioned stage. But when we worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa in our conditional stage, actually we worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. You have seen that picture, this viddhi-mārga and rāga-mārga. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship is on the platform of pure love, and Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa worship is on the regulative principles. So long we do not develop our pure love, we have to worship on the regulative principles. One has to become a brahmacārī, one has to become a sannyāsī, one has to perform the worship in this way, in the morning he has to rise, he has to offer. So many rules and regulations. There are at least sixty-four rules and regulations. So we shall introduce them gradually as you develop. So in the viddhi-mārga, when you have no love for God or Kṛṣṇa, we have to follow the regulative principles and automatically..., there is practice. When practicing. Just like you practice this mṛdaṅga playing. In the beginning it is not in order, but when you become well versed in the practice, the sound will come so nice. Similarly, when we are engaged by regulative principles in the worship of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, that is called viddhi-mārga. And actually when you are on the love platform, then that is called rāga-mārga. So without viddhi-mārga, if anyone wants to learn the rāga-mārga immediately, that is foolishness. That is foolishness. Nobody can pass M.A. examination without going through the regulative principles of primary schools and colleges. So therefore I do not, I mean to say, indulge in the discussions of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa so easily. Rather go on with the regulative principle at the present moment. Gradually, as you become purified, as you become on the transcendental platform, you'll understand what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Don't try to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa very quickly. It is a very big subject. If we want to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa very quickly, then there will be so many prākṛta-sahajiyās. In India there are prākṛta-sahajiyā. Just like Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa dancing. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa has become a plaything. The painting Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is kissing Rādhā, Rādhā is kissing. These are all nonsense. Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa philosophy has to be understood by the liberated person, not by the conditioned soul. So we shall await for the fortunate moment when we are liberated, then we shall understand rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir. Because Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, They are not on the material field. Try to understand. This is Jīva Gosvāmī's analysis, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman. The Supreme Brahman cannot accept anything material. So Rādhā is not in the material field.

Now there is a very nice song. I shall sing if you can play on the harmonium. Yes. This is a Rūpa Gosvāmī's song. (sings)

*rādhe jaya jaya mādhava*-dayite

*gokula*-taruṇī-maṇḍala-mahite



*dāmodara*-rati-vardhana-veśe

*hari*-niṣkuta-vṛndā-vipineśe



*vṛṣabhānudadhi*-nava-śaśi-lekhe

*lalitā*-sakhī guṇa-ramita-viśākhe



*karuṇāṁ kuru mayi karuṇā*-bharite

*sanaka*-sanātana-varṇita-carite



*rādhe jaya jaya mādhava*-dayite



*This song was sung by Rūpa Gosvāmī. He is the real person, actual person, to understand Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. So he says, "All glories to Rādhārāṇī." Rādhe jaya jaya mādhava*-dayite. "She's so dear to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa, everyone is trying to love Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa is trying to love somebody. Now how great She is. Just try to understand. Everyone, the whole world, the whole universe, all living entities, they are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema. Lord Caitanya describes, prema-pumārtho mahān. And Rūpa Gosvāmī described that "You are distributing kṛṣṇa-prema." So kṛṣṇa-prema is so valuable, but Kṛṣṇa is after Rādhārāṇī. Just see how Rādhārāṇī is great. Just try to understand the greatness of Rādhārāṇī. Therefore She is so great, and we have to offer our respect. Rādhe jaya jaya madhava-dayite. How She is? Gokula-taruṇī-maṇḍala-mahite. Taruṇī, taruṇī means young girls. You'll see the pictures, they are all young girls. But of all the young girls, She is the most beautiful. She is enchanting to the young girls also. She is so beautiful. Gokula-taruṇī-maṇḍala-mahite. Dāmodara-rati-vardhana-veśe. And She always dresses Her so nicely that Dāmodara, Kṛṣṇa, becomes attracted by Her beauty. Hari-niṣkuta-vṛndā-vipineśe. And She is the only lovable object of Kṛṣṇa, and She is the queen of Vṛndāvana. This queen of Vṛndāvana... You'll find in Vṛndāvana, if you go to Vṛndāvana, everyone is worshiping Rādhārāṇī. Rāṇī means queen. They are always speaking, "Jaya Rādhe!" Rādhārāṇī. All the devotees in Vṛndāvana, they are worshiper of Rādhārāṇī. Hari-niṣkuta-vṛndā-vipineśe. Vṛṣabhānudadhi-nava-śaśi-lekhe. And She appeared as the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and Her companion, Lalitā-sakhī and Viśākha-sakhī, and the devotees... So on behalf of the pure devotees of Kṛṣṇa, Rūpa Gosvāmī is praying, karuṇāṁ kuru mayi karuṇā-bharite. "Oh, my worshipable Rādhārāṇī, You are full of mercy. So I am begging of Your mercy because You are so merciful, very easily You offer, bestow Your mercy. So I am begging Your mercy." Karuṇāṁ kuru mayi karuṇā-bharite, sanaka-sanātana-varṇita-carite. Now somebody may say, "Oh, you are so great, learned scholar, you are so great saintly person, and you are begging mercy from an ordinary girl? How is that?" Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says, "Oh, this is not ordinary girl." Sanaka-sanātana-varṇita-carite. "This girl's description is possible to be made by great saintly persons like Sanaka-Sanātana. She is not ordinary."



So the lesson is that we should not treat Rādhārāṇī as ordinary girl, or Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. They are the Supreme Absolute Truth. But in the Absolute Truth, there is the pleasure potency, and that is exhibited in the dealings of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. And Rādhā's expansion all the gopīs, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord.

*Thank you very much. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You can chant? Can you chant? Janārdana? All right, you can chant. What is that? No, I have explained that one śloka from this Rāma*-carita-manasa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710829RA.LON

Rādhāṣṭamī:

Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī's Appearance Day

-

London, August 29, 1971



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Today is birth, appearance day of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, Rādhāṣṭamī. Fifteen days after Kṛṣṇa's birth, Rādhārāṇī appeared. (pause) Rādhārāṇī is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktiḥ. The Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has got varieties of energies, as it is confirmed in the Vedic literature. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. The Supreme Lord has nothing to do personally. Na tasya kāryam. He has nothing to do. Just like here in this material world we find some very big man, political head or business head; *personally, he has nothing to do. Because he has got so many assistants, secretaries, that personally he hasn't got to do anything. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, full with six opulences, why He will have to do something? No. He has got many assistants. Sarvataḥ pāṇi*-pādas tat. In the Bhagavad-gītā: "He has got everywhere His hands and legs." You'll find Kṛṣṇa, He has nothing to do. He's simply engaged in enjoyment with gopīs and Rādhārāṇī. He's not engaged in killing the demons. When Kṛṣṇa kills the demons He's Vasudeva Kṛṣṇa; *He's not original Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa expands Himself. First expansion is Baladeva. From Baladeva*-Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vāsudeva. So by the Vāsudeva feature He acts in Mathurā and Dvārakā. But Kṛṣṇa in His original feature, He remains in Vṛndāvana. One of the greatest fiction writers in Bengal, Bankimchandra Chatterjee, he misunderstood Kṛṣṇa that Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa of Dvārakā, and Kṛṣṇa of Mathurā, They're different persons. Kṛṣṇa (is) the same, one, but He can expand Himself in millions and trillions of forms. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam [Bs. 5.33]. Advaita. Although ananta-rūpam, still, He's ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam, advaita. There is no such distinction.



*So this Kṛṣṇa, when He wants to enjoy, what kind of enjoyment He will have? That has been discussed by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman. Brahman, Paramātmā, then Paraṁ Brahman. Absolute Truth, three different features. Someone is realizing the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman. Jnanis, those who are trying to understand the Absolute Truth by mental speculation, by dint of his own knowledge, he's realizing the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman. And those who are trying to understand the Absolute Truth by meditation, yogis, they realize the Absolute Truth as Paramātmā. Paramātmā is situated in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. That feature, Paramātmā feature. Aṇḍantara-sthaṁ paramānu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. That Paramātmā feature is one expansion of Kṛṣṇa. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, athavā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna ekāṁṣena viṣṭabhyāham. Ekāṁṣena. When Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna was trying to understand about different potential existence of Kṛṣṇa, so He explained in the Twelfth Chapter, "I am this. Amongst them, I am this. Amongst them..." Like that. And He concluded that "How far I shall go on? Better try to understand that only one plenary portion of Me, by entering this universe, the whole cosmic manifestation is existing." Ekāṁṣena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Jagat. This material world is existing on one plenary portion of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa enters, aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramānu-cayāntara-stham, He enters within this universe. Without His entering, this universe cannot exist. Just like without the spirit soul's entering within this body, this body cannot exist. As soon as the spirit soul goes out, immediately the body's useless. However the body may be prime minister or anything else, as soon as the soul is out of this body, it is not worth even a farthing. Similarly, because Kṛṣṇa enters within this universe, therefore the universe has value. Otherwise it is simply a lump of matter; it has no value. Ekāṁṣena sthito jagat.

So try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa want to enjoy, what kind of enjoyment that shall be? Try to understand this point. Kṛṣṇa is so great; *God is great, everyone knows. So when the great wants to enjoy, then what quality of enjoyment that should be? That is to be understood. Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa... Therefore Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī has written a verse, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ. The loving affairs of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary, these material loving affairs, although it appears like that. But one who cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Mūḍha, rascals, fools, they understand Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. As soon as we take Kṛṣṇa as one of us... Mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāṁ, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. These rascals, they do not know paraṁ bhavam. They try to imitate Kṛṣṇa's līlā, rāsa-līlā. There are many rascals. So these things are going on. There is no understanding of Kṛṣṇa. To understand Kṛṣṇa is very difficult.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



Out of millions of persons, one may try to make his life perfect. Everyone is working like animal. There's no question of perfection of life. The animal propensities: eating, sleeping, mating and defending... So everyone is engaged like animals. They have no other business, just like animal, hogs, dogs, whole day and night working: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he gets some stool, gets some fat, "Where is sex? Where is sex?" No consideration of mother or sister. This is hog's life.



So human life is not meant for hog civilization. So modern civilization is hog civilization, although it is polished with shirt and coat. So, we shall try to understand. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for understanding Kṛṣṇa. For understanding Kṛṣṇa, it requires little labor, austerity, penance. Tapasya brahmacāryeṇa śamena damena ca. Tapasya. One has to undergo tapasya; brahmacārya, celibacy. Tapasya. Brahmacārya means stopping sex life or controlling sex life. Brahmacārya. Therefore Vedic civilization is, from the very beginning, to train the boys to become brahmacārī, celibacy. Not that modern days, the schools, boys and girls, ten years, twelve years, they're enjoying. The brain is spoiled. They cannot understand higher things. The brain tissues are lost. So without becoming brahmacārī, nobody can understand spiritual life. Tapasya brahmacāryeṇa śamena damena ca. Śama means controlling the senses, controlling the mind; damena, controlling the senses; tyāgena; śaucena, cleanliness; *tyāga, tyāga means charity. These are the processes for understanding oneself, self*-realization. But in this age it is very difficult to undergo all these processes. Practically it is impossible. Therefore Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa Himself, has made Himself easily available by one process:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*In this age, Kali*-yuga... Kali-yuga is considered to be the most fallen age. We are thinking that we are making very much advance, but it is the most fallen age. Because people are becoming like animals. As the animals have no other interest than four principles of bodily necessities-eating, sleeping, mating and defending-so in this age people are interested with four principles of bodily want. They have no information of the soul, neither they are prepared to realize what is soul. That is the defect of this age. But human form of life is especially meant for realizing himself, "What I am?" That is the mission of human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is meant for inquiring about Brahman. Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān. These inquiries should be there. Jijñāsu. They are called jijñāsu, brahma-jijñāsa, jijñāsu, inquiry. As we inquire every morning, "What is the news today?" Immediately we pick newspaper. That inquisitiveness is there. But we are inquiring very base things only. There is no desire to inquire about the highest possibility, brahma-jñāna. That is the lack of this modern civilization. Inquiring how to earn money: divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā [SB 2.1.3]. Not only in this age... In this age it has become the principal factor, but in this material world everyone is engaged simply for these bodily necessities of life. Nidrayā hṛiyate naktam: at night they sleep very sound sleep, snoring. Or sex life. Nidrayā hṛiyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ [SB 2.1.3]. In this way they're wasting time. And at daytime, divā cārthehayā rājan... And during daytime, "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" Artha ihāya. Kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. And as soon as one gets money, then how to purchase things for family, that's all. Shopping, storing. This is the engagement of materialistic life. Out of that, one who is actually intelligent... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many such foolish persons engaged in sleeping, mating, earning money, and providing family with nice apartment and food... This is the general occupation. So out of many thousands of men like that, one is inquisitive how to make perfect this human form of life. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye.



*Siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So this life is meant for perfection. What is perfection? Perfection means that we do not want miserable condition of life, and we have to get out of it. That is perfection. Everyone is trying to get out of miserable condition of life. But they do not know what is the actual position of miserable life. Miserable condition of life: tri-tāpa-yantanaḥ. So this is called mukti, or liberation, from the misera... Ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. Duḥkha, duḥkha means distress. So everybody is trying to get out of distress. But he does not know what is the ultimate goal of getting out of distress. Na te viduḥ. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. One can be out of distress when he approaches Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sada paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. The Viṣṇu planet... Just like here in the material world they're trying to go to the moon planet, but these foolish people do not know what they'll gain even they go to the moon planet. It is one of the material planets. Kṛṣṇa has already said in the Bhagavad-gītā, abrahma-bhuvanāl lokān. What to speak of this moon planet*-it is very near-even if you go to the topmost planet, which is known as Brahmaloka... That is in your front, you can see every day, every night, how many lokas and planets are there. But you cannot go there. You are simply trying to go to the nearest planet. That is also failure. So what is your scientific improvement? But there is possibility. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān. You can go. The material scientists' calculation is that if one goes forward for forty thousands of years in the light speed, light-year speed, then one can approach the topmost planet of this material world. So at least in the modern scientific calculation, it is impossible. But one can go; there is process. That we have tried to explain in our small booklet Easy Journey to Other Planets. By yogic process one can go any planet he likes. That is the yogic perfection. When a yogi becomes perfect, he can go to any planet he likes, and the yoga practice goes on, unless the yogi thinks himself that he has made himself perfect to travel to any planet he likes. That is perfection of yoga practice.

*So, these are the perfection of life, not that teeny, floating sputnik. (laughter) They do not know what is perfection of life. You can go anywhere. A living entity's name is sarva*-gaḥ. Sarva-gaḥ means "one who can go anywhere he likes." Just Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni can travel anywhere he likes, either in the spiritual world or in the material world. So you can also do that. There is possibility. There was a Durvāsā Muni, great yogi. Within one year he traveled all over the universe and went to Viṣṇuloka and again came back. That is recorded in the history. So these are the perfections of life. And how these perfection can be attained? By understanding Kṛṣṇa. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. The Upaniṣad says, if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then all these things can be understood very easily. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a nice thing.

*So today, this evening, we are talking about Rādhāṣṭamī. We are trying to understand the chief potency of Kṛṣṇa. Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. As we understand from Vedic literature, Kṛṣṇa has many varieties of potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Just like the same example, as a big man has got many assistants and secretaries so that he hasn't got to do anything personally, simply by his will everything is done, similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has got varieties of energies, and everything is being done so nicely. Just like this material energy. This material world, where we are now living... This is called material energy. Bahir*-aṅga-śakti. The Sanskrit name is bahir-aṅga, external energy of Kṛṣṇa. So how nicely it is being done, everything in the material energy. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My superintendence the material energy is working." The material energy is not blind. It is... On the background there is Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ [Bg. 9.10]. Prakṛti means this material energy. Similarly... This is external energy. Similarly, there is another energy, which is internal energy. By the internal energy the spiritual world is being manifested. Parās tasmāt tu bhavaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. Another energy, parā, superior, transcendental, the spiritual world. As this material world is being manipulated under the external energy, similarly, the spiritual world is also conducted by the internal potency. That internal potency is Rādhārāṇī.

*Rādhārāṇī..., today is Rādhārāṇī's appearance day. So we should try to understand Rādhārāṇī's feature. Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra the Absolute Truth is described as ānandamaya, always in pleasure potency. That ānandamaya potency... Just like ānanda. When you want ānanda, pleasure, you cannot have it alone. Alone, you cannot enjoy. When you are in the circles of friend or family or other associates, you feel pleasure. Just like I am speaking. The speaking is very pleasing when there are many persons here. I cannot speak alone here. That is not ānanda. I can speak here at night, dead of night, nobody here. That is not ānanda. Ānanda means there must be others. So because Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, is ānandamaya, therefore eko bahu syām, He has become many. We are also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel, to give pleasure to Kṛṣṇa. And the chief pleasure potency is Rādhārāṇī.

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api bhuvo (purā) deha*-bhedo-gatau tau

*caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad*-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ

*rādhā*-bhāva-(dyuti)-suvalitaṁ naumi kṛṣṇa-svarūpam

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*So Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman, as you know from the Bhagavad*-gītā. When Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he affirmed Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman. So in this material world we see that a great, saintly person, simply to enjoy brahmānanda, he gives up everything of material enjoyment. He becomes sannyāsī. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Just to understand that he is in Brahman realization. So if one has to give up everything material for Brahman realization, do you think that Paraṁ Brahman, the Supreme Brahman, can enjoy anything material? No. Kṛṣṇa's enjoyment is nothing material. This point should be understood. For Brahman realization we are giving up everything material. And how Paraṁ Brahman can enjoy anything material? This question has been very much nicely discussed by Jīva Gosvāmī.



So when the Param Brahman... First of all, the Param Brahman information is not there in this material world. Little Brahman information is there. Or little Paramātmā information is there. But not Param Brahman, or Bhagavān, information. Therefore it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhaye means to understand Brahman or Paramātmā. But out of many such persons who have realized Brahman and Paramātmā, hardly a person can know Kṛṣṇa. And that... First of all... [break] ...what we can understand about Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency? If I want to know some big man. That is one process. And without knowing that big man, how I can understand about his internal affairs? Similarly, if we do not understand Kṛṣṇa, how we can understand how Kṛṣṇa is enjoying? That is not possible. But the Gosvāmīs, they're giving us information what is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. That is Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī.

*So we have described about the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa loving affairs in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya in page 264. If you have got this book, you can read it, how the reciprocation of loving affairs of Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa is there, transcendental. So our today prayer to Rādhārāṇī... We pray to Rādhārāṇī because She is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." But Rādhārāṇī is so great that She attracts Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive, and She is attractive (attractor) of Kṛṣṇa. So what is the position of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī? We should try to understand this day and offer our obeisances to Rādhārāṇī. Rādhe vṛndāvaneśvarī.

*tapta*-kāñcana-gauraṅgī rādhe vṛndāvaneśvarī

*vṛṣabhānu*-sute devī pranamāmi hari-priye



Our business is "Rādhārāṇī, You are so dear to Kṛṣṇa. So we offer our respectful obeisances unto You."



*tapta*-kāñcana-gauraṅgī rādhe vṛndāvaneśvarī

*vṛṣabhānu*-sute devī pranamāmi hari-priye



[I offer my respects to Rādhārāṇī, whose bodily complexion is like molten gold and who is the Queen of Vṛndāvana. You are the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and You are very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa.]



*Rādhārāṇī is hari*-priyā, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. So if we approach Kṛṣṇa through Rādhārāṇī, through the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, then it becomes very easy. If Rādhārāṇī recommends that "This devotee is very nice," then Kṛṣṇa immediately accepts, however fool I may be. Because it is recommended by Rādhārāṇī, Kṛṣṇa accepts. Therefore in Vṛndāvana you'll find all the devotees, they're chanting more Rādhārāṇī's name than Kṛṣṇa's. Wherever you'll go, you'll find the devotees are addressing, "Jaya Rādhe." You'll find still in Vṛndāvana. They are glorifying Rādhārāṇī. They're more interested, worshiping Rādhārāṇī. Because however fallen I may be, if some way or other I can please Rādhārāṇī, then it is very easy for me to understand Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*If you go by the speculative process to understand Kṛṣṇa, it will take many, many lives. But if you take devotional service, just try to please Rādhārāṇī, and Kṛṣṇa will be gotten very easily. Because Rādhārāṇī can deliver Kṛṣṇa. She is so great devotee, the emblem of mahā*-bhāgavata. Even Kṛṣṇa cannot understand what is Rādhārāṇī's quality. Even Kṛṣṇa, although He says vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26], "I know everything," still, He fails to understand Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is so great. He says that... Actually, Kṛṣṇa knows everything. In order to understand Rādhārāṇī, Kṛṣṇa accepted the position of Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa wanted to understand the potency of Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa thought that "I am full. I am complete in every respect, but still, I want to understand Rādhārāṇī. Why?" This propensity made Kṛṣṇa obliged to accept the propensities of Rādhārāṇī, to understand Kṛṣṇa, Himself.



*These are, of course, very transcendental, great science. One who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and well conversant with the śāstras, they can understand. But still, we can discuss from the śāstra. When Kṛṣṇa wanted to understand Himself, He took the tendency of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Rādhā*-bhāva-dyuti-suvalitam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa, but He has accepted the propensities of Rādhārāṇī. As Rādhārāṇī is always in feelings of separation of Kṛṣṇa, similarly, in the position of Rādhārāṇī, Lord Caitanya was feeling separation of Kṛṣṇa. That is the teachings of Lord Caitanya, feelings of separation, not meeting. The process of devotional service taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His disciplic succession is how to feel separation from Kṛṣṇa. That is Rādhārāṇī's position, always feeling the separation.

*The Gosvāmīs, they also, when they were in Vṛndāvana, they never said that "I have seen Kṛṣṇa." Although they were the most perfect, they never said that "I have seen Kṛṣṇa." Their prayers were like this: he rādhe! vraja-devike! he nanda-suno! kutaḥ. He rādhe, Rādhārāṇī, he rādhe! vraja-devike! ca. Rādhārāṇī does not remain alone. He (She) remains always with His (Her) friends, vraja-devī, Lalitā or Viśākha and other damsels of Vṛndāvana. So the Gosvāmīns are praying, in their mature stage, when they were living at Vṛndāvana, they were praying in this way, he rādhe! vraja-devike! ca lalite! he nanda-suno! kutaḥ: "Where, Rādhārāṇī, where You are? Where are Your associates? Where You are, Nanda-suno, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa? Where you are, all?" They were searching after. They never said, "I have seen Kṛṣṇa dancing with the gopīs. Last night I saw." (laughter) This is sahajiyā. This is not mature devotee. This is called... They are called sahajiyā. They take everything very cheap*-Kṛṣṇa very cheap, Rādhārāṇī very cheap-as if they can see every night. No. The Gosvāmīs do not teach us like that. They're searching after. He rādhe! vraja-devike! ca lalite! he nanda-suno! kutaḥ, śrī-govardhana-pādapa-tale kālindī-vanye kutaḥ: "Are you there under the Govardhana Hill or on the banks of the Yamunā?" Kālindī-vanye kutaḥ. Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. Their business was crying like this, "Where You are? Where You are, Rādhārāṇī? Where you are, Lalitā, Viśākha, the associates of Rādhārāṇī? Where You are, Kṛṣṇa? Are You near Govardhana Hill or on the bank of the Yamunā?" Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure. So throughout the whole tract of Vṛndāvana they were crying and searching after Them, khedair mahā-vihvalau, as if madman. Khedair mahā-vihvalau. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau.

*So we have to follow the footprints of the Gosvāmīs, how to search out Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, Vṛndāvana, or within your heart. That is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's bhajana: feeling of separation, vipralambha, vipralambha*-sevā. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, feeling the separation of Kṛṣṇa, He was falling down on the sea. He was coming out of His rest room or His bedroom and going out at dead of night. Nobody knew where He has gone. So that was His searching. This process of devotional service is taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not that very easily, "We have seen Kṛṣṇa or seen Rādhārāṇī in rāsa-līlā." No, not like that. Feel the separation. The more you feel separation from Kṛṣṇa, you should understand that you are advancing. Don't try to see Kṛṣṇa artificially. Be advanced in separation feeling, and then it will be perfect. That is the teachings of Lord Caitanya. Because with our material eyes we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. With our material senses we cannot see Kṛṣṇa, we cannot hear about Kṛṣṇa's name. But sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. When you engage yourself in the service of the Lord... Where the service begins? Jihvādau. The service begins from the tongue. Not from the legs, eyes, or ears. It begins from the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. If you begin service through your tongue... How? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Use your tongue. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. The tongue has got two business: to articulate sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa; and take prasādam. By this process you'll realize Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: Don't try to see Kṛṣṇa. You cannot see Kṛṣṇa with your material eyes. Neither you can hear about Him with your material ears. Neither you can touch. But if you engage your tongue in the service of the Lord, then He'll reveal Himself to you: "Here I am." That is wanted. So feel separation of Kṛṣṇa just like Rādhārāṇī, as Lord Caitanya teaches us, and engage your tongue in the service of the Lord; then, one day, when you are mature, you'll see Kṛṣṇa eye to eye.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Haribol! All glories to His Divine Grace! (offer obeisances) (end)





730905BG.LON

Rādhāṣṭamī:

Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī's Appearance Day

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*Bhagavad*-gītā 18.5

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London, September 5, 1973



Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)



*yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-karma

na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat

yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva

pāvanāni manīṣiṇām



Translation: "Acts of sacrifice, charity and penances are not to be given up but should be performed. Indeed, sacrifice, charity and penance purify even the great souls." (Translation not on tape)



Prabhupāda: ...yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. There are four stages of spiritual life. The brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. For brahmacārī, yajña. Yajña means to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. The whole scheme...



*(aside:) I thinking I am feeling very hot. I have to take off... In another place it is said, yajñārthāt karmaṇaḥ anyatra karma*-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. (Prabhupāda's clothing is being taken off; it sounds like his sweater.) That's all right. That's all right. Keep it now.

*So brahmacārī, in the beginning of life... Brahmacārī means beginning of life, student life. They must be trained up how to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the first training. The brahmacārī is trained up to rise early in the morning and offers fire sacrifice, then studies of Vedas, then saṅkīrtana. There are so many routine work for brahmacārī. So this must be executed. And for gṛhastha*-dāna, charity. Gṛhastha must be prepared or trained up to give charity. And who will accept the charity? The charity will be accepted by the brahmacārī and sannyāsa. Not the vānaprastha. Brahmacārī will accept charity on behalf of the spiritual master. And a sannyāsī will accept charity only for his maintenance. That's all. The gṛhastha cannot accept charity. But a gṛhastha-brāhmaṇa, he can accept charity, but he will not, I mean to say, accumulate money by taking charity. Whatever he gets, he must spend. Then dāna-pratigraha. Pratigraha means accept. But he cannot keep in bank a bank balance. He must, whatever extra he has got, he must immediately give in charity. Then he can accept, a gṛhastha-brāhmaṇa, accept charity. There is a proverb in Bengali, that "A brāhmaṇa, even if he gets one lakh of rupees, one hundred thousands of rupees, still he is a beggar." Because he will not keep it. He will not keep it for... He will immediately distribute it in charity. Therefore he is called in Bengali lakh take baundigi. (?) It doesn't matter he gets one lakh of rupees contribution, but still he remains a beggar. Because immediately he will distribute. So these things are very important things. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ. And for sannyāsī and vānaprastha-tapasya. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Tapasya means accepting voluntarily all kinds of inconveniences, voluntarily.

*Now, the material activities are that we are trying to avoid inconveniences. Material life is. But spiritual life means to execute tapasya, austerity, penance, even at the risk of all inconvenience. This is called tapasya. So Kṛṣṇa says, yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ, kāryaṁ na tyājyam. You can give up your family life, but you cannot give up this yajña-dāna-tapaḥ. That you cannot, at any circumstances. These things must be continued. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. Kāryam means "must," "you must perform." The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, karma-tyāgī, they do not work. Their principle is always study Vedānta philosophy, and whatever they require, a little, they will beg, taking alms from gṛhasthas, and live and follow the strictly the principles of austerity. They are very strict. Those who are really Māyāvādī sannyāsī, not false, they follow strictly three times taking bathing. Even in severest cold they must. They lie down on the floor and always read Vedānta and Sāṅkhya philosophy. But in spite of all these austerities, they do not approve the worship of Deity, the transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because they are impersonalist, they do not worship.

*So śāstra says that ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: [SB 10.2.32] "So these people, although they are thinking of themself as liberated, they have become liberated..." The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs address amongst themselves: namo nārāyaṇa. "Namo nārāyaṇa" means every one of them has become a Nārāyaṇa. This is their philosophy. And from this namo nārāyaṇa principle, Vivekananda Swami has manufactured the word "daridra-nārāyaṇa." So Nārāyaṇa has become very cheap thing for them. Everyone has become Nārāyaṇa; everyone has become God. Just like the rascal God is now in the hospital. God is under operation. (laughter) A "guruji" God. So they have no shame even that "If I am God, I cannot cure my bodily pains, what kind of God I am?" But these rascals will proclaim that they are God, and there is set of rascals, they will accept, "Oh, here is God." Vivekananda also said that "Why you are finding out God? Don't you see, so many gods are loitering in the street?" So God has become a funny thing for them. No. We do not accept such God. Our God is different. Our God is:

yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahma*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvenaiva vīkṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



*Our Nārāyaṇa-that is real Nārāyaṇa, exalted*-we cannot even compare with that supreme Nārāyaṇa with such demigods like Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, what to speak of these rascals. Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ, samatvena vīkṣeta. Any person, rascal, if he thinks that Nārāyaṇa is equal to Lord Brahmā or Lord Śiva... There are Māyāvādīs. They say "Any demigod is as good as Viṣṇu. You can worship any demigod. It doesn't matter. You..." Because their ultimate understanding is that the Absolute Truth is impersonal, and you can imagine any form. It doesn't matter. You ultimately reach that impersonal, merge into the impersonal.



*This is their philosophy. But that is not the fact. The ultimate issue of the Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. Absolute Truth is realized in three phases: first of all impersonal Brahman, then localized Paramātmā, and then the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. The Absolute Truth is described as Bhagavān, and there are many expansions of Bhagavān. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam. Kṛṣṇa has expansion, millions and trillions. Just like as Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Not only He resides in everyone's heart, but in every atom also. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.35] **. So Kṛṣṇa has got many expansions. But they are all one. Advaitam acyutam. Just like you have got experience that the sun, if you have got millions of pots, the sun is reflected; *you will find millions of suns, but although the sun is one, but we see that millions of suns are there in millions of pots. This is the understanding. God is one, but He can expand Himself in millions and millions. There is no question of counting. Unlimited, but still, one. Advaita. Acyuta. The Māyāvādī philosophy is that because God has expanded Himself in so many, all-pervading, therefore he is finished. He is finished. Just like material conception. You take any big paper and make it into pieces and then throw it*-the original paper is lost. There is no more existence. That is Māyāvādī philosophy. Māyāvādī philosophy means because God is all-pervading, therefore He has no form. He has finished His form. There cannot be any form. And this is material conception. This is not spiritual conception. Spiritual conception is pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. If Kṛṣṇa is the complete, supreme, so even He expands Himself in millions and trillions of complete forms, still, He is complete. Still, He's complete. This is conception of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore avyaya. Avyaya means acyuta, avyaya. Acyuta means He does not fall. It is not like that, that in my bank I have got one hundred pounds; if I take one, two, three, four, five in this way, one hundred finished, my bank balance is finished. It is not like that. Kṛṣṇa is so complete that immediate forms may be expanded from Him; still, He is complete. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya. These verses you have already read in the Īśopaniṣad.

*So that is the conception of Kṛṣṇa. So unless you, from the very beginning you practice yajña, or if you are a gṛhastha, give in charity, and when you take sannyāsa, you undergo tapasya, how you will understand this philosophy? It is not possible. In the Kali*-yuga, however, this yajña is not possible. As there are ritualistic yajña, sacrifice as recommended in the Vedas, that is not possible. It is very expensive. You have to acquire so much ghee and grains and so many other things. Feed so many, daily, people. It is very difficult task to perform the ritualistic yajña. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has made easy. What is that? Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. That is recommended in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*This is the process of performing yajñas. Yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ. What is that yajña? Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam. Varṇa means category. Just like brāhmaṇa-varṇa, cātur-varṇa. Varṇa means class. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. As Kṛṣṇa said. So kṛṣṇa-varṇam: in the category of Kṛṣṇa. So kṛṣṇa-varṇa. Or "One who is describing Kṛṣṇa," varṇayati. Kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati iti kṛṣṇa, iti kṛṣṇa-varṇa. Either belonging to the category of Kṛṣṇa... He is not belonging to the category of the jīva soul. He belongs to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, kṛṣṇa-varṇa. Or chanting always the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣā akṛṣṇam. Means He is Kṛṣṇa... Because He belongs to the category of Kṛṣṇa, therefore He is Kṛṣṇa. But we have got conception, Kṛṣṇa is blackish. Yes, that's a fact. Asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. Asita. Asita means black. Asitāmbuda. So black cloud. Ambuda means cloud. Asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. His complexion is like blackish cloud, but very, very, very, very beautiful. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīyam. He is so beautiful that many millions of Cupid cannot be compared with Him, although He is black. So here the same Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-varṇam, although He belongs to the same category of Kṛṣṇa, tviṣā, by complexion, akṛṣṇa. Akṛṣṇa. Akṛṣṇa means "not Kṛṣṇa." So it may be any other color. It may be... There are so many colors.



*So akṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa, not blackish. So there may be... But no. There are fixed colors for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śukla, śuklo raktas tathā pīta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. When Kṛṣṇa was born at Nanda Mahārāja's place, or Kṛṣṇa appeared then,... So according to Vedic system there is jāta*-karma. As soon as child is born, immediately horoscope is made and according to horoscope his name is given. There are daśa-karma. Daśa-karma. So one of these is at the birth, that before the child is begotten, there is one saṁskāra, garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Similarly, after the child is born, then another saṁskāra, jāta-karma-saṁskāra. So there are so many saṁskāras. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ: By following the saṁskāra, purificatory process, one becomes brāhmaṇa. The upanayana-saṁskāra, the sacred thread saṁskāra. So when Kṛṣṇa was having the jāta-karma-saṁskāra by Gargamuni, the priest of Vasudeva... He was sent to Nanda Mahārāja to perform the Kṛṣṇa's jāta-karma. So he was a learned astrologer. He said, "Nanda Mahārāja, your this son formerly had three other colors: śuklo raktas tathā pīta. He was of white color, He was of red color, He was of yellow color." Idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. "Now He has appeared in blackish color." Idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. So kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32]. Tviṣā means by complexion He is not black. Then He must be either of the three-white, red and yellow.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's color is yellowish golden color. Therefore it is said, "He is Kṛṣṇa, but now He has appeared in golden complexion." Kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣā akṛṣṇam. And sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. "He is always surrounded by His associates." Aṅga, upāṅga. Aṅga means personal, and upāṅga means expansion of the expansion, which is called kalā. The first expansion is called avatāra, and when there is another avatāra from avatāra, that is called kalā. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Very scientific analysis in the śāstra. Not that any rascal comes, "I am God." This is not acceptable. We have to understand śāstra-vidhi, as śāstra it is said. So about Śrī Cai... Because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so many rascals have imitated: "Well, this Nimāi Paṇḍita, if He can become avatāra, then why not Gadādhara Paṇḍita?" This Ramakrishna, his name was Gadadhar Chatterjee. So he was also imitation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Where is the reference in the śāstra? So far Caitanya Mahāprabhu is concerned, there are so many innumerable references, in Mahābhārata, in Bhāgavata, in Purāṇa, in Upaniṣad. Therefore we accept Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not by rascal's vote that "Let us vote this man is God; *then he becomes." So kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam [SB 11.5.32]. He associated with other devotees-Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu, then Gadādhara Prabhu and Śrīnivāsa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. Whenever Caitanya Mahāprabhu is present, there are so many devotees. Gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. So sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. This is the incarnation of Kali.

*So yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. Those who have got brain substance, not dull, filled up with cow dung, they cannot understand what is the saṅkīrtana-yajña. But śāstra says, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ: "Those who have got nice brain substance, they can perform this yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña." Then it fulfills the injunction of the Bhagavad-gītā, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma. So for this saṅkīrtana movement, saṅkīrtana-yajña, in this age, before the Deity of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu and associated (with) Nityānanda, Advaita, others... If not all, at least Nityānanda or Gadādhara. Gaura-Gadādhara or Gaura-Nityānanda, or all of them, five. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda. You have got Pañca-tattva? No picture here? It was there.

Devotee: When... Revatīnandana Swami takes with him travelling.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. So Gaura*-Nityānanda is here. That's all right. So this is the yajña. So yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam. You cannot give up in any stage of life, but because the yajñas mentioned in the Vedas it is not possible to perform in this age Kali-yuga because they are mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. In this age people may advertise themselves they are making very good progress. They are all unfortunate, disturbed. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ. Manda-bhāgyāḥ means unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ, always disturbed. This is the position of the people in this age. How they can perform the Vedic ritualistic ceremony? It is not possible. So this is the yajña. So yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ, you keep Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and perform yajña, the saṅkīrtana-yajña before Him, and you become all perfect. So easy. So easy. Because you cannot give up yajña. But in this age, Kali-yuga, people are so unfortunate, so rubbish, that it is not possible to perform the Vedic ritualistic yajña. That is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has given you the opportunity that you can perform. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ [SB 12.3.52]. Makha means yajña. That was performed in the Tretā-yuga. And in the Satya-yuga, meditation. In the Dvāpara-yuga, Deity worship. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. In the Kali-yuga, simply by kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51]. And this is the śāstra's injunction.



*So I am very pleased that you are keeping this center nicely in our own standard by performing yajña, by saṅkīrtana, and today is Rādhāṣṭamī. You perform. Our yajña is saṅkīrtana, and Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau, śrī-caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptam [Cc. Ādi 1.5]. When Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is one. Ekam advitīyam. But eko bahu syāt. He can expand Himself. So when He wants to enjoy, so the pleasure potency is manifested from His personal body. That pleasure potency is Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is not ordinary living entity. Rādhārāṇī is Kṛṣṇa's personal pleasure potency. Hlādinī-śakti.

*So just today is the appearance day of hlādinī-śakti. So if you want to please Kṛṣṇa... Because our business is to please Kṛṣṇa. Hari*-toṣaṇam. Our this movement is hari-toṣaṇam. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Not only our. This is the aim. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. The whole Vedic literature is meant for searching out Kṛṣṇa and to satisfy. So Kṛṣṇa personally comes to give you the information. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam: [Bg. 18.66] "You rascal, you give up all these engagements. Simply you surrender unto Me."

*And what about other demigods? There are so many demigods. What we have to do? Kāmais tais tair hṛta*-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. "This demigod is worshiped by persons who have lost all intelligence." Hṛta-jñāna. Hṛta-jñāna means naṣṭa-buddhayaḥ, one who has lost of the intelligence. There is no need. Simply mām ekam. That is the instruction of Bhagavad... That is the śāstra instruction. Viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti. This is Ṛg Veda mantra. Actual aim of life is to satisfy Lord Viṣṇu, and Kṛṣṇa is the origin of viṣṇu-tattva. And He is pleased through Rādhārāṇī. Therefore we don't keep Kṛṣṇa alone. No. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. First Rādhārāṇī. So that day is today. First you have to worship Rādhārāṇī. If you go through Rādhārāṇī...

*Therefore in Vṛndāvana you will see all devotees, they will address one another, "Jaya Rādhe." Still. Because they know that "If Rādhārāṇī is pleased, if I can please Rādhārāṇī..." Rādhārāṇī is presented, the original pleasure potency, always absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who comes before Rādhārāṇī to serve Kṛṣṇa, oh, She becomes so pleased, "Oh, here is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." She immediately recommends, "Kṛṣṇa, oh, here is a devotee. He is better than Me." This is Rādhārāṇī. I may be a, not devotee. I may be most fallen rascal. But if I try to reach Kṛṣṇa through Rādhārāṇī, then my business is successful. Therefore we should worship Rādhārāṇī first. That is our business. Instead of offering directly one flower to Kṛṣṇa, you just put it in the hands of Rādhārāṇī: "My mother Rādhārāṇī, Jagan*-mātā, if you kindly take this flower and offer it to Kṛṣṇa." "Oh," Rādhārāṇī says, "Oh, you have brought a flower?" Kṛṣṇa said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26], but don't try to offer Kṛṣṇa directly. Just offer through Rādhārāṇī. It will be very much appreciated by Rādhārāṇī.

*So this is our philosophy, to please Kṛṣṇa through Rādhārāṇī, and just today is the auspicious day of Rādhārāṇī appearance. So we should offer puṣpāñjali and pray to Rādhārāṇī that "Rādhārāṇī, kindly be merciful and tell about me to Your Kṛṣṇa. To Your Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is Yours." Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not independent. Kṛṣṇa is Rādhārāṇī's property. So you have to approach Kṛṣṇa through Rādhārāṇī. That is, today is the auspicious day. Worship Rādhārāṇī very nicely and be happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710903BA.LON

His Divine Grace

*Śrīla Sac*-cid-ānanda Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's

Appearance Day, Lecture

-

London, September 3, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Bring water, water. Water? So today is a very auspicious day, Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda's birthday. Here is the picture of Ṭhākura Sac*-cid-ānanda Bhaktivinoda. He was one of the ācāryas of this disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa. We have got a succession table from Kṛṣṇa, genealogical table. There are two kinds of genealogical tables, one by the semina-father, his son, his son, like that. That is material genealogical table. And there is one spiritual genealogical table, disciplic succession. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, the original father, Supreme Personality of Godhead, He spoke the Vedic knowledge to Brahma, Lord Brahma. He spoke to Nārada. Nārada spoke to Vyāsa. Vyāsa spoke to Madhvācārya. So in this disciplic succession, Lord Caitanya, from Lord Caitanya, the six Gosvāmīs, and similarly, coming down, down, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, then Gaurakiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, then my spiritual master, then we are next generation, my disciples.



So there is a disciplic succession. And the ācāryas, they're authorities. Our process of knowledge is very simple. We take it from the authority. We don't speculate. Speculation will not help us to come to the real knowledge. Just like when we are in difficulty, in legal implication, we go to some authority, lawyer. When we are diseased we go to a physician, the authority. There is no use, speculation. Suppose I am in difficulty in some legal implication. I simply speculate, "I shall be free in this way and that way." That will not help. We have to go to the lawyer who knows things, and he gives us instruction that "You do like this; then you'll be free." Similarly, when we are diseased, if I speculate at home that "My disease will be cured in this way and that way," no. That is useless. You go to an authorized physician, and he will give you a nice prescription, and you'll be cured. That is the process of knowledge. But in the modern age people think that "I am free, I am independent, and I can make my own solution." That is rascaldom. That's not good. So Arjuna, when he was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but when he saw that there was no solution talking like this, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He said, śiṣyas te 'ham, aham: [Bg. 2.7] "Myself, I surrender unto You as Your disciple." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam. Prapannam means surrender. So that is the Vedic injunction, that if you want to know transcendental knowledge or science... "Transcendental" means beyond the scope of your direct perception.

So spiritual knowledge is beyond the scope of our sense speculation. Beyond the scope. Just like when a soul, a spiritual spark only, leaves this body, you cannot see. Therefore, atheistic class of men, they speculate, "There may be a soul; there may not be soul." Or, "The bodily function was going like this; now it stopped. The blood corpuscles now cease. It is no more red; it is white; *therefore life..." These are speculation. This is not actual knowledge. Actual knowledge you get from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. He says, tathā dehāntara*-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. Just like the soul is passing through different stages. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Deha, deha means this body. Asmin dehe, in this body, there is dehi. Dehi means who is the owner of this body. That is soul. That is passing through childhood, boyhood, babyhood, youthhood, old age. Everyone, you can perceive that you were a child, you were a baby, you were a boy. Now you are young man or old man. So you are there. So as you are passing through different types of bodies, similarly, when you give up this body you accept another body. What is the difficulty? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. There is no question of becoming astonished, how transmigration of the self, soul, takes place. The vivid example is there. Simply you require little intelligence. That intelligence is developed through the instruction of ācārya. Therefore, Vedic injunction is not to acquire knowledge by speculation. That is useless. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ jānāti tattvaṁ prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan [SB 10.14.29]. Ciraṁ vicinvan. Ciram means for thousands of years you can speculate; *you cannot understand what is God. That is not possible. But if you receive knowledge from the devotee, he can deliver you. Therefore Vedic injunction is that tad*-vijñāna... [break] ...in order to understand tad-vijñāna... Vijñāna means science. If you want to know the transcendental science, then you must approach a guru. Tad-vijñānārtham, in order to... If you are at all interested to understand the spiritual science. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ (sa) gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You must approach guru. Guru means this disciplic succession, as I have explained.

So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is an ideal guru. He was not a sannyāsī; he was gṛhastha, householder, living with family, wife, children. Still, he was guru. So anyone can become guru. Not that a sannyāsī can become guru. A householder also can become guru, provided he knows the science. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a sannyāsī, very highly born in brāhmaṇa family, very learned scholar. So He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, a gṛhastha, governor of Madras. And He was questioning, and Rāmānanda Rāya was answering. That means he was taking the part of guru, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was taking the part of a disciple. So he was hesitating, Rāmānanda Rāya. He thought himself that "I am a gṛhastha; *I'm not even a brāhmaṇa. Besides that, I am dealing in material affairs. I am governor, politics. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu is a sannyāsī, born of a high*-class brāhmaṇa family. So it does not look well that I shall teach Him." So he was hesitating. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, why you are hesitating?" He said,

kibā vipra, kibā śūdra, nyāsi kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*He said, "Don't hesitate. Either one may become a brāhmaṇa or one may become a śūdra..." Kibā vipra, kibā śūdra. Vipra means brāhmaṇa, and śūdra. Śūdra is the fourth*-grade human being. Brāhmaṇa is the first grade. So kibā vipra, kibā śūdra. He may be a first-grade human being or the lowest grade human being, or he may become a sannyāsī or a gṛhastha. It does not matter. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become a guru. This is the verdict. Because spiritual science does not belong to the bodily platform. It is on the spiritual platform. It is very nice. Just like when you go to a lawyer or to an engineer or to a physician. You do not inquire whether he's a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. Simply you have to know whether he's a lawyer. That's all. Whether he's a physician actually. If he knows the medical science, he may be a brāhmaṇa, he may be a śūdra, he may be a sannyāsī, he may be a householder. It doesn't matter. Your business is with a physician, with a lawyer. Similarly, your business is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa perfectly, you have to go there. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. It is... Vedic injunction is not that you have to approach a sannyāsī or a gṛhastha or an Indian or American. No. Gurum. And guru means who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa.



So, this Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was gṛhastha, very responsible officer, magistrate. And he was so exalted that he would come from his office generally at five o'clock, then take his supper and immediately go to bed. Immediately. Say at seven o'clock in the evening he goes to bed, and he wakes up at twelve o'clock. So suppose he goes to bed at seven o'clock in the evening and wakes up at twelve o'clock at night; it is sufficient sleep, five hours. One should not sleep more than five to six hours. Minimize as far as possible. The Gosvāmīs used to sleep not more than one and a half hour, or two hours. Sleeping is not very important thing. Even big politicians, they used to sleep for two hours. So especially in spiritual line, they should minimize as far as possible eating, sleeping, mating, defending. Minimize. Gradually it comes to nil. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was eating only a little piece of butter every alternate days, not daily. So this Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, regularly he was coming from his office, and after taking his supper immediately he goes to bed, and wake up at twelve o'clock, and he used to write books. He wrote, he left behind him about one hundred books. And he excavated the birthplace of Lord Caitanya, organized how to develop that birth site, Māyāpur. He had so many business. He used to go to preach about Caitanya's philosophy. He used to sell books to foreign countries. In 1896 he attempted to sell Life and Precepts of Caitanya in the Mac Gill University in Montreal. So he was busy, ācārya. So one has to adjust things. Not that "Because I am gṛhastha, householder, I cannot become a preacher. It is the business..." (aside:) Give me water. "It is the business of the sannyāsī or brahmacārī." No. It is the business of everyone. The whole world is suffering for want of knowledge. The present civilization is animal civilization. They do not know anything beyond eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. This is animal civilization. Animal does not know beyond these four principles of life: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. No. Human life is meant for something else: "What I am? What is God? What is my relation with God? What is this material world? Why I am here? Where I have to go next?" So many things one has to learn. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is human life. Not that eat and sleep and have sex life and die someday like cats and dogs. Therefore, there is need of ācāryas, teachers, for propagating spiritual knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was... Although he was a gṛhastha, householder, a government officer, magistrate, but he was ācārya. So from his dealings, from his life, we should learn how one can become a preacher in any stage of life. It doesn't matter what he is.

*There was one incidence, very interesting. When he was magistrate in Jagannātha Purī... The system is... Jagannātha temple is a very big establishment. In the temple fifty-six times daily, bhoga is offered. And you'll find in the temple always at least five hundred to one thousand people gathered. And they come from outside, and prasāda is ready. If you go and ask in the Jagannātha temple that "We are one hundred men come from outside. We want prasāda," yes, immediately ready. So it is a huge temple. This is one temple, but there are many other thousands of temple in India where prasāda is distributed. Now it is minimized by our present government. They think that it is unnecessary expenditure. They are minimizing. But not unnecessary expenditure. They do not understand. Formerly, in India there was no necessity of hotel. Anyone goes anywhere, even in a village, he goes to a temple-prasāda is ready. There is no need of going to a hotel. You pay or don't pay. If you say that "I want little prasāda," "Yes, take it." That is the system still. There is the Nāthadvārā temple in Rajasthan. You pay two annas only. Two annas means one cent. You get sumptuous prasāda for two annas, all very nice prasāda, still. So prasāda distribution in temple is longstanding usage. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura... The Jagannātha temple is managed by a body, and it is the custom that the local magistrate of the district, he becomes the president, or manager. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was manager in that sense, because he was magistrate. The managing committee was being presided by him. So there was a complaint. In Orissa, this Jagannātha temple is situated in Orissa. Utkāla. Utkāla, this state, was originally belonging to Dhruva Mahārāja. His son's name was Utkāla, Mahārāja Utkāla. Anyway, so this Utkāla, there was a pseudo yogi. He declared himself that... Just like you'll find nowadays also, there are so many rascals declaring that "I am incarnation of God." And they know some mystic power, play some jugglery, and foolish people take them: "Oh, he's God." So there appeared one like such pseudo God, Viṣṇu, in a village of Orissa. And he was dancing rāsa dance, and foolish people were sending their daughters and wife to dance with him. You see? There were so many. Not only that. People are so foolish, they do not know... They want to be cheated, and these cheaters come. He declared that "I am God. I am Viṣṇu." So there were sane men also. They took objection, "What is this nonsense? This man is dancing with ladies and gentlemen, er, girls." So they filed a complaint. At that time it was British rule. They complained to the governor or the commissioner, very high officer. The commissioner knew that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura... His name was Kedāranātha Datta. Datta. Kedāranātha Datta, his household name. So the commissioner of the division, he knew that Kedāranātha Datta is a religious man, and he's magistrate in charge. So he handed over the case for inquiry, "What is this complaint? You please inquire and do the needful." So he was a pure devotee, and he understood that "This rascal is a bogus man, cheating people. I must inquire." So he went to the village in plain dress with some constables, police constables. They were also in plain dress. And as soon as he approached that rascal yogi, he said, "Oh, you are Kedāranātha Datta. So, very nice. You are... I shall make you king of India. Please don't try to bother me." Because he could know that "He has come to inquire about my rāsa-līlā." So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura first of all said, "Sir, you are such a great yogi. Why you are in the village? Why don't you go to Jagannātha Purī? There is temple and Lord Jagannātha is there. Better you go there and see the Lord and be happy. Why you are in this village?" "Oh, Jagannātha? Ah, that is made of wood. I am personally the Supreme Lord. That is made of wood." Oh, then Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura-he was a devotee*-he became fire. (laughter) He was insulting. Arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. According to śāstra, if somebody thinks... Just like here is Deity. If somebody thinks, "Oh, it is made of stone..." It is stone to the eyes of the nondevotee, but it is personally Supreme Personality of Godhead to the devotees. It requires the eyes to see. So devotee sees in a different angle of vision. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He entered Jagannātha temple immediately He fainted: "Oh, here is My Lord." And the nondevotee is seeing: "It is wood, a lump of wood." Therefore, to the nondevotee, He remains always as wood, but to the devotee He speaks. That is the difference. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. If God is everything, why wood, through wood and stone, God cannot manifest? If God is everything? According to Māyāvāda philosophy... That's a fact. God, omnipotent. He can express Himself even through wood and stone. That is God's omnipotency. That is called omnipotency. Not that God is unable to express Himself through wood and stone. Then how He's omnipotent? Omnipotent means His potency can be expressed through anything. Because anything, everything is the expansion of God's energy. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. The whole world is manifestation of different energies of God. Therefore... Just like through the energy of electricity the electric powerhouse, although far, far away from this place, was expressing. There is electricity. Through this glass, through these wires, the power can be expressed. There is a process.

*So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura became very much... Because a devotee cannot tolerate blaspheming another devotee or God. So as soon as he said that "Why shall I go to Jagannātha Purī to see the wooden Jagannātha? I am personally Viṣṇu," Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura immediately ordered his constables, "Arrest him. Arrest this rascal." So he was arrested. And when he was arrested... He had some yogic mystic power. All the constables, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and his family members became affected with high fever, 105 degrees fever. So when he came back, his wife became very much disturbed that "You arrested Viṣṇu, and we are all going to die. We have got now high fever." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura replied, "Yes, let us all die, but this rascal must be punished." This is the view of pure devotee. So he was put into the custody. And there was a date fixed for his trial, and all these days Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura himself and his family especially, they were suffering from high fever. Maybe that yogi was planning to kill the whole family. But it was going on as fever. So on the trial day, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Kedāranātha Datta, when he came to the bench the man was presented, the so*-called yogi, and he had big, big hairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ordered that "Bring one barber and cut his hair." So no barber dared. The barbers thought, "Oh, he's a Lord Viṣṇu. If I offend, as he's suffering from fever, so I shall also die." So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ordered that "Give me the scissor. I'll cut." So he cut his hairs and ordered him to be put into jail for six months, and in the jail that Viṣṇu incarnation managed to take some poison, and he died.

*So this is one of the incidents. There are many incidences. He was very strong man. He punished many paṇḍas in the tīrthas who exploit visitors. So, this is the position of devotee. In spite of his becoming a responsible magistrate, a householder, still, he was ācārya. So we have to follow the ācāryas. If we at all, if we are at all interested in spiritual science, then we must follow the Vedic instruction, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. We must approach. You cannot have spiritual knowledge simply by speculating. Impossible. Simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. You must go to the... In the Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, it is recommended, ācāryopāsanam. Ācārya-upāsanā. Not only worshiping the Lord, but also the ācārya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Guru, ācārya, and Kṛṣṇa. One should seek favor of both of them. Not that "I am now seeking favor of Kṛṣṇa. What is the use of guru or ācārya?" No. You cannot overlap ācārya and go to Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa will not accept you. Just like if you want to see a big man you should go through his secretary, through his orderly, doorkeeper; similarly, our process is ācāryopāsanam, go through the ācārya. That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you want to enter into the spiritual world, you cannot get through simply by arguments. Because there is no limit of argument. I place my argument in one way. Another man, who is better arguer, he places his argument in a different way. So if you simply go on arguing, it is not possible. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. It will never help you. Argument. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. If you think that "I shall read scriptures and I shall understand God," no, that is also not possible. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Scriptures are also different. Because scriptures are made according to time, circumstances, people. Just like Bible. Bible Lord Jesus Christ preached in the desert, Jerusalem. Or where it is? People who were not so advanced. Therefore his first instruction is "Thou shall not kill." That means they were very much engaged in killing affairs; *otherwise, why is this instruction? And actually, it so happened that they killed Jesus Christ. So that society was not very enlightened society. So a scripture for a society which is not very enlightened and a scripture for a society which is very enlightened must be different. Just like a dictionary. For the schoolboy, a pocket dictionary. And for a college student, international, big dictionary. Both of them are dictionaries. But the small pocket dictionary is not equal to the big dictionary. Because it is different made for different classes of men. So scriptures are made according to different classes of men. There are three classes of men: first*-class, second-class, and third-class. The third-class man cannot understand the philosophy and scriptural injunctions of the first-class man. That is not possible. Higher mathematics cannot be understood by the small schoolboys who are simply trying to understand "Two plus two equal to four." But "Two plus two equal to four" is equally good to the higher mathematics student. But still, higher mathematics and lower math is different. Therefore it is said, śrutayo vibhinnāḥ: the scriptures are different. So if you simply try to understand what is God by reading scriptures, you cannot achieve. You must approach a guru. Just like a medical book. It can be available in the market. If you purchase one medical book and study and you become doctor, that is not possible. You must hear the medical book from a medical man in the college, medical college. Then you will be qualified. And if you say, "Sir, I have read all the medical books. Recognize me as a medical practitioner," no, that will be not.

*So śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Scriptures are different. Arguments, that is also not helpful. One man may argue better than me. Then philosophy. The philosophy, it is said, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. One philosopher is differing from another philosopher. Just now today Śyāmasundara has purchased one book about different philosophers. So that you also cannot ascertain what is truth. Therefore śāstra says, dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. The truth is very confidential. So if you want to know that truth, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], you should have to follow the great ācāryas. Then you will understand. Therefore ācārya*-upāsanā is essential. Ācārya-upāsanā is very essential. In all the Vedic śāstras the injunction is that. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Tasmād gurum prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Anyone who is inquisitive to understand higher truths, he must surrender to guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta, jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One who is inquisitive, who is now inquiring about transcendental subject matter. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. So all the śāstras says, in our Vaiṣṇava śāstra also, Rūpa Gosvāmī says, ādau gurv-āśrayam: "In the first beginning, you must take shelter of a bona fide guru."

*So this Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birthday, we should adore, we should worship, because in the modern age he reintroduced the disciplic succession. From Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Five hundred years ago, Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught this philosophy, but within two hundred years... Because this material world is so made that whatever you introduce, in due course of time it will deteriorate. You make a nice house, but after one hundred years, two hundred years, or nowadays, even after fifty years, it becomes dilapidated. That is the nature's law, kāla. Time will destroy everything. Now, British empire, such a big, vast empire, now it is finished. The kāla, the time, will make everything finished. That is material. Anything material, it has birth, it has growth, it has got some opulence, then dwindling, then finished. That is the way of material... So we are interested in spiritual subject matter. Therefore the process is ādau gurv-āśrayam. One has to accept a bona fide spiritual master. That is our process. Without accepting a bona fide spiritual master, we cannot make any progress. It is impossible. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura happens to be ācāryas, one of the ācāryas. And he has left behind him many books. Caitanya-śikṣāmṛta, Jaiva Dharma. These are very important books. They're in Bengali, in Sanskrit. And many songs. He has prepared many books of song. The song, Ei nām gāya gauracānd madhura svare, that is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song. So we are trying to present Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's books also in English translation. Gradually you will get it. So our adoration, our worship to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura today because he may bless us to make peacefully progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ācārya*-upāsanā, simply by the blessings of the ācāryas we can make very rapid progress. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. If we... Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ... **. We sing every day. By the mercy of the spiritual master, ācārya, we immediately get the blessings of Lord. Immediately. Yasya prasādāt. Yasya means "whose"; *prasādāt, "benediction." By the benediction of the spiritual master. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. If spiritual master, ācārya, is pleased, then you should know that Kṛṣṇa is also pleased. You should know through. This is not very difficult. Just like you are working in office. If your immediate officer, boss, is pleased, that means the proprietor of the firm, he's also pleased. Although you do not see him. This is fact. Your immediate boss, if he's pleased. So similarly, we, our business, this spiritual line, is guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. We have to first receive the merciful benediction from the ācārya, and then Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and He'll also give His blessings. Mad-bhakta. There is a version in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, mad-bhakta pūjyābhyadhikā. He says, Kṛṣṇa says, that "If anyone worships Me directly and if anyone worships Me through the ācārya, he's better devotee who is coming to Me through ācārya." Mad-bhakta pūjyābhyadhikā.

*So our, this Vaiṣṇava philosophy, process, is to go through the ācārya. Servant of the servant of the servant. We should try to become servant of the servant. Gopī*-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. We should not approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly. That is not good. That will not be... In the Vedic injunction also it is said, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. If one has got unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, yathā deve, and similar faith in guru... Of course, we must make guru bona fide. Then it is disciplic succession. And that is also not very difficult to select, who is bona fide guru. Bona fide guru means he presents himself as servant of God. He does not pose himself falsely that "I am God." This is bona fide. It is not difficult to find out bona fide. But this is the test. If anyone says that "I am guru," er, "I am God," then he cannot be guru. Because he has no knowledge. How he is God? But he can cheat some people. That is different thing. You can cheat all people for some time and some people for all time, but not all people for all time. That is not possible. So these kinds of guru, who poses themself that "I am God," he's a false guru. The bona fide guru will say that "I am servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa," or God. Servant of [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. That is the business of guru. He serves Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa desires; *that is his business. That is also not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says, Kṛṣṇa desires, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], that "You give up all other engagement; just surrender unto Me, and I'll give you protection." Kṛṣṇa says. So guru's business is that "You simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa." What is the difficulty? Simply repeat the same thing. Not for himself, but for Kṛṣṇa. He's bona fide guru.

*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very bona fide because we say the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says. We don't make any addition, alteration. Not like big scholars like, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], and the scholar interprets, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see (the) foolishness. Kṛṣṇa directly says, "unto Me." He says, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." Misleading. Such misleading guru will not help you. So therefore to find out a bona fide guru means that he does not change the words of Kṛṣṇa. That is his position. He places everything as it is, and he has understood thoroughly the science. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Guru, what is the symptom of guru? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Those who are inquisitive to understand higher scientific knowledge, uttamam. Uttama means higher. Uttama, madhyama, adhama. There are three words. First-class, second-class, third-class. So spiritual knowledge is uttamam. Anyone who is inquisitive to understand first-class knowledge, he requires to go to a guru. Those who are interested in third-class knowledge, they do not require any guru. Third-class knowledge means animal knowledge: how to eat, how to sleep. How to make arrangement for eating, how to make arrangement for sleeping, that is third-class knowledge. Because the animals also try for this kind of knowledge, how to eat, how to sleep. Therefore this kind of knowledge is third-class knowledge. And second-class knowledge is "What I am?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta. That is second-class knowledge. And first-class knowledge, when he actually understands what he is, he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, and engages himself in the service of the Lord, that is first-class knowledge. And therefore, as soon as he comes to the first-class knowledge platform, he becomes happy.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So after being liberated from the material concept of life by the blessings of Kṛṣṇa and guru, one comes to the platform of first*-class knowledge, where he engages himself directly in the service of the Lord. That is first-class knowledge. First-class knowledge means beyond liberation. Second-class knowledge is trying for liberation. Third-class knowledge means in bondage, like animal. The animals, they are bound up by the particular type of body and has no, I mean to say, possibility of becoming liberated. That is animal life. But human life is better than animal life because he, if he likes, he can make himself liberated from this bondage of material body. That is the facility. He can understand himself what he is. He can understand what is God. He can understand the relationship between God and himself. He can understand what is this material world. Because there are thousands of books of knowledge. Take it for Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there. And it is meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. Cats and dogs cannot understand, but a human being can understand.



*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to enlighten people to utilize his very nice life, human form of life, utilize it properly. To utilize it properly means to revive his dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, is there already. It is developed in human form of life. But it is now covered because due to our association with this material world for unlimited years background. We are coming through different species of life. Millions and millions of years passed away. Suppose I was a tree sometimes. I was standing up for ten thousand years in one place. We have passed through. That's a fact. That is evolution. Now we have the opportunity of light. If you don't use this opportune moment and again go back to the cycle of evolutionary process, jalajā nava*-lakśaṇi sthāvarā... So these are great science. Unfortunately, there is no opportunity for the people to study this science in school, colleges, or universities. They are simply teaching people that "You work hard and gratify your senses." That's all. Therefore a section, younger section, they have been disgusted. They have refused to cooperate with this society on account of this disappointing education. And it will increase. Because this sort of education cannot give peace or prosperity to the people. Problems are increasing. Therefore, our request is that if you want to decrease or completely finish all the problems of life, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the process of disciplic succession and you'll be all happy.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda, are you going to answer any questions?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: If anyone has any questions pertaining to the lecture, you can ask them at this time. They should be pertaining to the lecture.



Devotee girl: Did Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he also took sannyāsa in later years? Is this right?



Śyāmasundara: Did Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura take sannyāsa in later years?



Prabhupāda: Yes. In very late years. In his retired life.



Śyāmasundara: Any other questions?



Devotee: Prabhupāda, you say that an animal has no chance for liberation. What would happen if an animal came in contact with a pure devotee?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, there is chance of deliverance. Yes. Even an animal. Because he'll hear Hare Kṛṣṇa from the pure devotee. That will not go in vain. He'll give prasādam. He does not know, but the devotee out of compassion gives prasādam, chants Hare Kṛṣṇa. He also gets the opportunity of hearing. So he'll also be liberated. One dog, during Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, he also became liberated. There is a history. Śivānanda Sena's dog, he was liberated by the grace of Lord Caitanya. So by the association of pure devotee... Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's, there is one song. He prays to the Lord that kīṭa*-janma hou jatha tuyā dāsa. Kīṭa means insect. "My Lord, if I have to take my birth again..." Because a devotee does not pray to God for liberation. He simply prays that "Wherever I may take my birth, I may not forget You." That's all. That is devotee's prayer. A devotee does not say that "Elevate me to the heavenly planet or Vaikuṇṭha planet." No. "You can put me anywhere." Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, kīṭa-janma hou: "My dear Lord, I have no objection if I have to take my birth next as an insect." What to speak of human being or other thing. "As an insect. But I must be in the house of a devotee." So that an insect, by eating the remnants of foodstuff left by the devotee, he'll be delivered. Kīṭa-janma hou jatha tuyā, bahir-mukha brahma-janma nāhi mora āśā: "I don't want my next birth as Lord Brahmā if I forget You. I don't want." That is wanted. A devotee prays to the Lord that he would be able to constantly remember the lotus feet of the Lord. Never mind whether as insect or as king or as dog, never mind. That is devotee's, pure devotee.



Indian man: If one has accepted a bona fide spiritual master and he did not receive much knowledge from him, can he change his spiritual master at later...



Prabhupāda: A bona fide spiritual master, where is the necessity of changing?



Indian man: No, he has not got the knowledge from him, but can I change...?



*Prabhupāda: No, no. Bona fide spiritual means he must get knowledge. He must get knowledge. He must inquire from the... The student must inquire from the spiritual master. If he remains dumb, then what bona fide spiritual master can do? Ādau gurv-āśrayaṁ sad*-dharma-pṛcchat, jijñāsuḥ. He must be jijñāsuḥ. He must be jijñāsuḥ. We get so many letters daily. So many inquiries. The student must be very inquisitive. Otherwise how he shall make progress? If he remains dumb, then what the bona fide spiritual master can do? If you go to a very nice school but if you do not study, if you do not inquire, then what is the use of going to the nice school? You must be also very alert to inquire, to understand, to make progress. Then it will be all right. If you do not utilize the benefit of having a bona fide spiritual master, then that is your fault. You must utilize the opportunity. We are publishing so many books, so many literatures, magazines. Why? Just to enlighten more and more. But if you don't take advantage of this, then how can you make progress? Change of spiritual master requires when the spiritual master is not bona fide. Otherwise there is no necessity of changing.



Indian lady: How does one contact the spiritual master? Through a book can you contact the spiritual master?



Prabhupāda: No, you have to associate.



Śyāmasundara: "Can you associate through a book?" she asked.



Prabhupāda: Yes, through books, and also personal. Because when you make a spiritual master you have got personal touch. Not that in air you make a spiritual master. You make a spiritual master concrete. So as soon as you make a spiritual master, you should be inquisitive.



English man: If the spiritual master, Prabhupāda, worships God through a demigod, is he bona fide?



*Prabhupāda: No. He does not know how to worship. How he can be bona fide? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Why he should go to the demigods? That means he has no knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam. Why should you go to others? That means he's insufficiently qualified. Why should you go to the demigods? What is the necessity? He's not bona fide. Because he has insufficient knowledge. Bona fide spiritual must be sufficiently knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam; God says, mām ekam. Why he should go to demigods? That is his proof that he's not bona fide.



Devotee: If one accepts initiation from a bona fide spiritual master but continues to perform material activities, are they still bound by the karma?



Prabhupāda: He has to do everything under the instruction of the spiritual master. That is his duty. Śiṣya. Śiṣya means who voluntarily accepts disciplinary measures from the spiritual master. He's ruled by the spiritual master.



Indian lady: Can the death of a spiritual master take to us, or I can get... Is that spiritual master still guiding after the death? (?)



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like Kṛṣṇa is guiding us, similarly, spiritual master will guide. We are being guided by Kṛṣṇa, by the Bhagavad*-gītā. Although Kṛṣṇa is not physically present, so-called... Kṛṣṇa is present always. But even if we say that Kṛṣṇa is not physically present as He was present before Arjuna, still, His book, Bhagavad-gītā, is there. And that Bhagavad-gītā is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's teaching, the same, absolute. That is Absolute Truth. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's... Here form, the same. It is not that we are making show of offering Kṛṣṇa some food. No, we are offering directly to Kṛṣṇa and He's eating. Kṛṣṇa being absolute, He can perform through anything provided we are sincere and serious. All right. (end)





721019AK.VRN

Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī's

Appearance Day

-

Vṛndāvana, October 19, 1972



Pradyumna: Page 39.



Prabhupāda: There will be... (too faint)



Pradyumna: Page 39. "I offer my respectful obeisances unto Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by whose mercy even a..."



Prabhupāda: No, no. This is... *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*.



Pradyumna: Oh. I'm sorry, sorry. "In the instructions of Lord Caitanya to..."



*Prabhupāda: Forty*-seven?



Pradyumna: Page 47. " 'Teachings to Sanātana Gosvāmī.' In the instructions of Lord Caitanya to Sanātana Gosvāmī, we can understand the science of God in the matter of His transcendental form, His opulences, and His devotional service, for everything is being described to Sanātana Gosvāmī by the Lord Himself. At that time, Sanātana fell at the feet of the Lord and with great humility asked about his own real identity. He spoke as follows, 'I am born of a lower family. My associations are all abominable and I am fallen, the most wretched of mankind. I was suffering in the dark well of material enjoyment, and I never knew the actual goal of my life. I do not know what is beneficial to me. Although in the mundane sphere I am what is known as a great, learned man, I am in fact so much of a fool that I even accept that I am learned. You have accepted me as Your servant, and You've delivered me from the entanglement of material life. Now You can tell me what my duty is in this liberated state of life."



*Prabhupāda: So today is the appearance day of Śrī Kavirāja Gosvāmī, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. Therefore we are discussing this evening Teachings of Lord Caitanya, which is the summary study of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. The most important chapters in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, namely, His teachings to Rūpa Gosvāmī, His teachings to Sanātana Gosvāmī, His talks with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, His talks with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, and His talks with Rāmānanda Rāya-these five subject matters are delineated in The Teachings of Lord Caitanya specifically.



*So the most important chapter of Caitanya's teaching was to Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī. Teachings of Sanātana Gosvāmī, uh, Rūpa Gosvāmī and Rāmaṇanda Gosvāmī, Rāmānanda Rāya, so they are meant for devotees who are on the second stage. First stage, second stage, and third stage. The first stage is called mahā*-bhāgavata, liberated devotee. And the second stage is via media between the lowest stage and liberated stage. And the lowest stage is called prākṛta-bhakta, means persons in material condition gradually being elevated to the supreme position of self-realization. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu dealt with Sanātana Gosvāmī because he was to write one book for direction, Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. You know-his famous book. This is a book giving directions especially to the householders, how to keep oneself on the proper standard of Vaiṣṇava behavior. Later on, Sanātana Gosvāmī wrote the book Hari-bhakti-vilāsa for giving direction, and Rūpa Gosvāmī wrote the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, "The Science of Devotion." Now, these two brothers met Caitanya Mahāprabhu when they were on their ministerial posts at Maldah, a district in Bengal. So after meeting Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they decided to join with Him fully for propagating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and they resigned from their posts. Rūpa Gosvāmī first resigned..., not officially resigned, because he was very much eager to meet Caitanya Mahāprabhu, so he first of all retired. And then Sanātana Gosvāmī, later on, he wanted to resign in a tactful way, but the Nawab did not like the idea. So he was imprisoned at his house. No, he was actually imprisoned. And later on, Sanātana Gosvāmī bribed ten thousand gold coins to the jail superintendent and got out of the prison house and went to meet Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares.

*So when he met, he very humbly approached and he said, "My dear Lord, I am born of lower family." Actually, he was born of a sārasvata*-brāhmaṇa family, but because he associated with the mlecchas and yavanas, the Muhammadans, so they were rejected from the brāhmaṇa community, and therefore he represented himself as having born of a lower family. "My associations are all abominable." Ordinary men, especially he was mixing with the Mohammedans, they were habituated to drinking, meat-eating, which have become a fashion in the gentleman's society nowadays. So he considered himself as fallen. "The most wretched of mankind..." If a human being does not take advantage of this opportunity to have a human form of life, then he's missing the point. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says... (much talking in background) (aside:) Stop them.

Acyutānanda: Kṛpera, śānti kāraṇa.



Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Narādhama means "lowest of the mankind." Anyone who does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead and does not surrender unto Him, he is considered the lowest of the mankind. It is not sectarian. It is a fact. Because the Supreme Personality of Godhead says Himself. If we say somebody that "You are the lowest of the mankind because you, you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious," it may be called sectarian view, but when the Lord, Himself, says that,



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhama

*māyaya apahṛta*-jñānā

*asurī*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*Asurī*-bhāvam āśritāḥ. There are two classes of men: asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ and daivī-prakṛtim āśritāḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find these two words. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Those who are mahātmānas, broad-minded... Mahātmā means broad-minded. And durātmā means cripple-minded, just the opposite word. Durātmā. Dura means far away from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, dura ātmā. And mahātmā... Mahān, mahato mahīyān, Kṛṣṇa. So whose ātmā is attached to the Supreme, the great, he's called mahātmā.



So durātmā means one who is under the influence of this material nature, far, far away from Kṛṣṇa. This material nature actually situated many, many, many, many thousands and millions of miles far away from Vaikuṇṭhaloka. This universe is unlimited according to our measurement. And beyond this universe there is the spiritual world, paravyoma. And far, far away, the topmost planet of the spiritual world is Kṛṣṇaloka. So those who are in this material world, actually they are durātmā in this sense that they are far, far away from the planet which is known as Kṛṣṇaloka, or Goloka Vṛndāvana. This Vṛndāvana is the replica of that original Vṛndāvana. Because when Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet He appears in this spot of land, Vṛndāvana. Just like when the governor goes somewhere, they have got a circuit house. It is something like that. And there is no difference between that original Vṛndāvana and this Vṛndāvana.

*So mahātmā, they are always attached with Kṛṣṇa. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. They are no longer under the influence of this material nature. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, takes Kṛṣṇa everything, is no longer under the influence of this material nature. That is the significance. If one is fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, fully attached to Kṛṣṇa, the symptoms will be seen that he's no more attached to material enjoyment. Just like these Gosvāmīs. These Gosvāmīs, they were very highly posted, ministers. They were not ordinary men. Big, big ministers in the government. But because they became attached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa, they gave up their posts. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śrenīm. Tyaktvā means giving up; *turnam, immediately. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śrenīm. Maṇḍala-pati means leaders. They were called... (aside:) One will do, not two.

Devotees: One, one, once.



*Prabhupāda: Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śrenīṁ sadā tucchavat. Tucchavat means very significant. They did not give any importance to the ministerial post. Here in the material world, if you get a nice government service, what to speak of to become minister, then we are very much proud. But the Gosvāmīs thought of their posts as very insignificant. Without thinking like that, how they can give it up? Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. You cannot by force become renounced order of life. When you see something better than your present engagement, then you can be renounced. After accepting renounced order of life, if I am still attached to these material things, then that is not advancement. So these Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, they gave up their posts. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śrenīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau kṛpayā kaupīna-kantāśritau. Kaupīna, the underwear, loincloth, and a torn quilt, and a kuraṅga, That was their possessions. And they used to live underneath one tree, and next day another tree. In this way, in this Vṛndāvana... First of all, Sanātana Gosvāmī came here after taking instruction from Lord Caitanya in Benares. And Madana Gopāla's temple you have seen, old. He was living there underneath a tree. There was no temple at that time. The temple was constructed later on. So this Sanātana Gosvāmī, just after giving up his ministerial post, with great difficulty, he came to Benares and Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him instruction for two months for guiding the Vaiṣṇava principles. So he's approaching his spiritual master with humble attitude. Therefore he's speaking like that. "I am born of lower family. My associations are all abominable, and I am fallen." Actually, he was minister. He was coming of a brāhmaṇa family. But these material qualifications are not sufficient to improve one's Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is being exhibited by Sanātana Gosvāmī. He's approaching the original spiritual master, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, with due humbleness. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇi śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. One must approach. Sanātana Gosvāmī's teaching us the Vaiṣṇava principle that one should approach a proper spiritual master. So he's approaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So one may argue that "Where is Caitanya Mahāprabhu now? Where is Kṛṣṇa now?" It doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa's words are there. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's words are there. Instructions are there. So if we follow the direction and instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of a superior, bona fide spiritual master, then we associate with Kṛṣṇa or Caitanya Mahāprabhu without any deviation.



*So "lowest of the mankind..." Now if somebody's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, and if we say that "You are lowest of the mankind," a very, very strong word used... A gentleman, suppose he's not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, but if we say that "You are the lowest of the mankind," he'll be certainly very angry, that "I am such a nice gentleman, and you are talking of me as the lowest of the mankind." But actually the fact is this. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvad kiñcit na hvāyate, sabhāyaṁ vastra*-veṣṭhitaḥ.(?) There is a normal instruction that a so-called gentleman, nicely dressed in the assembly of human society, may appear to be very nice so long he does not speak. But he's, if he speaks nonsense, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately he becomes the lowest of the mankind. If he proves by his speaking that he has no knowledge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's simply well dressed, that's all... That we are finding all over the world. They are very nicely dressed, they have got very nice car, but if we ask him about God consciousness, they say, "Sir, after finishing this body, everything is finished." This is their knowledge. Therefore they are the lowest of the mankind. Lowest of the mankind means that in the human form of life he was supposed to know that life is eternal and the soul is changing different types of bodies on account of karma, different types of activities. But although the gentleman is well dressed, he does not know. He does not know what is going to happen in his next life. Neither he believes in the next life. This is the position of the modern civilization. So anyone in that ignorance is called the lowest of the mankind, narādhama. If you say, "How I can say this gentleman, nicely dressed gentleman, lowest of the mankind? He has already passed his university education. He has got big, big degrees. And how I can say that he's the lowest of the mankind?" the answer is given by Kṛṣṇa. I do not require to answer. The answer is given there: māyayā apahṛta-jñānā. Māyayā. Certainly he's educated. He has got degrees. That's all right. But the essence of his knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Essence of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. That he has no idea, what is Kṛṣṇa. This is the position of asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. The mahātmānas tu daivī-prakṛtim āśritāḥ, and the narādhamas, there are, there are asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu and his son, Prahlāda. Prahlāda is mahātmā. Daivī-prakṛtim āśritāḥ. And Hiraṇyakaśipu is demon. He is māyayā apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. There are two classes of men, daivī-prakṛtim āśritāḥ and asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to induce people to become daivī*-prakṛtim āśritāḥ instead of becoming asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. So how this can be done? This is possible if you approach Caitanya Mahāprabhu or His representative. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī. He's approaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu with right humbleness, that "I am lowest of the mankind, most abominable associated." Therefore the Bhāgavata says, "Who requires a guru?" Guru is not a fashion, that "Everyone has a guru. Let me possess a guru, and let me do all nonsense." Not like that. One must be very serious to accept a guru. Unless one is very serious... What is that seriousness? The seriousness is to know God, "What is God? What is my relationship with Him?" This is seriousness. Those who are not serious to know God and act godly, they do not require to seek after a guru. There is no necessity. Don't make it a fashion to have a guru. Generally, they make it a fashion that "Everyone has a guru, so let me have a guru also." No. The Bhāgavata says, gives this direction, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Guruṁ prapadyeta. To approach guru means fully surrendered unto him. As Kṛṣṇa demands, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Therefore when I have to surrender, I have to surrender to the Supreme and the representative of the Supreme. They are surrendered. Not anywhere. So Bhāgavata says, gives this direction, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Guruṁ prapadyeta. To approach guru means fully surrendered unto him. As Kṛṣṇa demands, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Therefore when I have to surrender, I have to surrender to the Supreme and the representative of the Supreme. They are surrendered. Not anywhere.

*So Bhāgavata says: tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. You surrender to a guru. Why? Jijñāsu śreya uttamam. Unless you are inquisitive to learn about the Supreme, the transcendence, then you find out a suitable representative of Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and surrender. Tad vidhi praṇipātena. Praṇipāta. Prakṛṣṭa*-rūpena nipāta. Pra means prakṛṣṭa-rūpena, and praṇipāta. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpena nipāta: fall down. Tad vidhi praṇipātena paripraśnena. First of all, praṇipāta. You cannot inquire challengingly to the guru. Just like Arjuna did it, praṇipāta. Śiṣyas te'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. So this praṇipāta required. And before praṇipāta, you must... Everyone has got his personal, puffed-up attitude: "Why shall I surrender?" That is the material disease. We do not wish to surrender. We think that "I am equal with Him. Why shall I surrender?" So, but our, this Vaiṣṇava philosophy, especially, begins with this praṇipāta. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī has left his highly-salaried post, ministership, and he has come to surrender unto Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the beginning of spiritual life. He's a learned man, highly learned man in Sanskrit and Arabian language. Just like during British period we learned English, and it has now become established fact. I am Indian. I am speaking in Indian, uh, in English. Of course, I am speaking between, before Englishing public, but still in India, English is still predominant. Similarly, when there was Muhammadan kingdom, people learned Sanskrit, Arabian, and Persian languages. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was expert; *both Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī were expert in three languages: Sanskrit, Arabian, and Persian. So he was not a fool. He was very learned man. From his later contributions, we can see how highly learned he was, he, how he gave references from Vedic literatures in their writings, Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Līlā-smaraṇam and others, books.

*So unless one approaches a bona fide spiritual master, his so*-called knowledge has no value. māyayā apahṛta-jñānā. This atheistic view of life means he has no knowledge. Anyone who denies the existence of God, superior authority of God, he must be considered as māyayā apahṛta-jñānā, asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. "I was suffering in the dark well of material enjoyment, and I never knew the actual goal of my life." That is the position of everyone. We get here a little material opulence and we forget our real business. We remain intoxicated in material enjoyment and forget the real business of life. That is a great blunder. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung this fact: hari hari viphale, janama goñāinu. "My dear Lord, I have simply spoiled my life." How? Manuṣya janama pāiya, rādhā kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Any human being who has no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's committing suicide. Jāniyā śuniyā, knowingly, knowingly. Everyone should know, at least, that human life is meant for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if he, if he knows, at least he gets this information... Just like we are broadcasting this information all over the world, that everyone should become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So in spite of this knowledge, broadcast of this knowledge, if a person does not take advantage of this movement, then it is to be understood that knowingly he's drinking poison. Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu.

*So why it is so important? Golokera prema dhana. Because it is coming from Goloka Vṛndāvana. This transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they are coming from Goloka Vṛndāvana. Just like you receive through radio machine news from distant place, thousands and thousands of miles away. Now the instruments have improved. They are trying to get information from other planets also. That's nice. But there is another machine which can give you information of the Goloka Vṛndāvana. That machine is nothing manufactured by the material scientists. But there is a machine. What is that machine? That machine is this guru-paramparā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. If you receive the message by the guru-paramparā... The first guru is Kṛṣṇa. Next guru is Lord Brahma. Next guru is Nārada. Next guru is Vyāsadeva. Next guru is Madhvācārya. And so many others. And their branches. In this way, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then the Gosvāmīs. Then Śrīnivāsa, Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. In this way, the paramparā is coming. So this is the machine. How I can understand this machine is correct? Yes, it is correct. How it is correct? You can corroborate. The Bhagavad-gītā says, the original machine, Kṛṣṇa, says, sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. So the same message is being broadcast in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What we are speaking? We are speaking, "Give up everything. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Is not that the same machine? If you keep the words, the vibration of the machine the same, then it is the same machine. You get the correct information. Kṛṣṇa is speaking-about Himself, about His abode, about the spiritual world, the activities. Kṛṣṇa is speaking everything in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, in Bhagavad-gītā. And we don't require to change unnecessarily. If we present the same thing as it is, as we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then the machine is there. You can get all the information. There is no difficulty. Just like you are getting by the present machine, radio machine, the message from far, distant place. Similarly, you can get all the information of the spiritual world by the proper machine. The Bhagavad-gītā received through the paramparā, disciplic succession of bona fide spiritual masters. It is not difficult.

*So Sanātana Gosvāmī is receiving the message of the spiritual world through the exigency of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So the teachings of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is there. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta is there. If you study scrutinizingly Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teachings to Sanātana Gosvāmī, then you also get the machine. There is no difficulty. And as soon as you get the machine, and if you know how to handle it properly, then you get all the information. It is not difficult. And how to handle properly the machine, that is being taught by example, personal example by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that he's approaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu very humbly. He's not proud of his past position that he was a minister, he was a moneyed man, rich man, born of a brāhmaṇa family and so on, so on. He's humbly presenting him that "I am the most fallen. I am the most fallen." So "I never knew the actual goal of my life. I do not know what is beneficial to me." That is the position of everyone. Nobody knows what is the ultimate goal of life. They think that "We have got this body, and let us enjoy the senses to the fullest extent. That is the highest perfection of life." Get some material education-technologist, or something else, material education-get some good post, get good salary, and eat nicely, drink nicely, and enjoy your senses. This is perfection of life. This is going on all over the world. But that is not the goal of life. Therefore, because that is not the goal of life, and we know that this is goal of life, therefore we require the enlightenment from a bona fide spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is the Vedic instruction. In order to learn that transcendental science, you must approach a bona fide spiritual master. And Sanātana Gosvāmī, although the most learned scholar, born of a brāhmaṇa family, highly posted, opulent, still he's approaching very humbly to a spiritual master. That is the way. He's teaching us by his life example that, without approaching spiritual master, you cannot have any spiritual enlightenment. That is not possible. You must approach a bona fide spiritual master and serve him. Tad vidhi praṇipātena. First of all surrender unto him, and then you question along with seva. While serving, you can put some questions which you do not understand properly.

*Now Sanātana Gosvāmī says that "Although in the mundane sphere I am what is known as a great, learned man..." Sanātana Gosvāmī informed Caitanya Mahāprabhu: grāmya vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita. Just like in India, you'll find there is a system. A brāhmaṇa is addressed, "Paṇḍitji." Still, that is the etiquette. A brāhmaṇa is addressed as "Paṇḍitji," a kṣatriya is addressed as "Ṭhākura Saheb," and a vaiśya is addressed as a "Sethji" and a śūdra is addressed as "Choudhari." They have got respect for everyone. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was not a false paṇḍita. Nowadays... I have seen in Calcutta one brāhmaṇa with thread, he was pulling on thela. So somebody addressed him "Paṇḍitajī." So that sort of paṇḍitajī was not Sanātana Gosvāmī, that without any knowledge he was pulling on thela, and he's also a paṇḍitajī. Not like that. He was actually paṇḍita. He was very learned scholar. But he knew his position, that "Although my friends, my admirers, my assistants, my subordinates, they address me Paṇḍitajī, but actually I am not paṇḍita." He said, grāmya*-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita, satya kari māni, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nāhi jāni! Grāmya-vyavahāre. Grāmya means ordinary deals, ordinary dealings social etiquette. "They call me Paṇḍitajī, but actually I do not know what is the aim of my life, what is my constitutional position." Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tapa-traya. "I do not know why these threefold miserable conditions of material existence is troubling me. I do not want them."

*So this is the real position of everyone. One may be materially, academically very learned, so*-called learned, but he does not know what is the aim of life, why he's put in this material condition, ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tapa-traya. They are trying, tapa-traya, and miseries of life, we know. There is heat and cold, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. These are miseries. And there are problems-birth, death, old age and disease. But we do not know from which source they are coming, and they are being enforced upon us, and still we are proud of our education. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura therefore sings, jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā. The more we become so-called materially advanced, means we are entangled with the network of māyā.

*jaḍa*-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā

anitya saṁsāre moho janamiyā jīvake koroye gādhā



So anitya saṁsāra, this material atmosphere, it is anitya. Anitya means temporary. Although temporary, I shall live here, say, for fifty years or hundred years. Still, I am very much busy to make adjustment of my, this temporary living condition. Everyone is busy: how to have a house, how to have nice bank balance, how to be secure nationally, this way, that way. We are embarrassed with so many problems. But at any time, at any moment, the notice may come: "Please vacate this place." We have to do that. But we do not take care of this.



nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indirya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



*Asann api. This body, asann api, it will not exist forever. It is temporary, but it is troublesome always. Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Three kinds of miseries are always there. So Bhāgavata says that we are mad, pramattaḥ kurute vikarma, and doing all sorts of mischievous activities for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītaya [SB 5.5.4]. Indriya-prītaiḥ: simply for the satisfaction of the senses. Tons of beef are sold simply for satisfaction of the tongue. The tongue becomes dry... And a great trade is going on in India, everywhere, in your country also-cigarettes. It has no necessity, but simply for the satisfaction, temporary satisfaction of the tongue, this great trade is going on. So just vikarma. In this country, there is no such government... But in your country, perhaps you know, in every cigarette package, packet it is written it is dangerous for health or what is that?



Devotee: Yes, yes. "Warning: The surgeon general has determined that cigarette smoking may be hazardous to your health."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So the warning is there. But still they're smoking. Why? Pramattaḥ. And vikarma. They have given warning that it is not good for health. Warning is there in every cigarette package, packet, but because he has become mad after that bidi and cigarette, he kurute vikarma. Although it is forbidden, he's still taking advantage of it. Just see how Bhāgavata writes frankly: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Pramattaḥ. These mad persons, persistently committing sinful activities, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Why? Yad indriya prītaya āpṛṇoti, simply for the satisfaction of sense. Not for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction is that "You give up all this nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." But instead of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, he has surrendered to bidi and cigarette. Yes. This is going on. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. Ṛṣabhadeva said, "This is My proposal." Na sādhu manye. "My dear friends, you are doing wrong." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Ātmanaḥ, the spirit soul, ātmā, is pure, but because you wanted to smoke bidi and cigarette, you have got this body. Otherwise, spirit soul is pure.



*So you have already got this body at the present moment. And that is kleśa*-daḥ, always giving misery. Everyone has got experience. So again you are committing sinful activities to get another material body. This is not good. This is not good. Na sādhu manye yata ātmāno 'yaṁ kleśa-daḥ. You, you have already got experience, by your past mischievous activities, you have got this body which is always full of miseries and painful. Still, you are committing the same sinful activities so that you'll get another body to enjoy. Kṛṣṇa will give you; so long you have a pinch of material desire, Kṛṣṇa will give you opportunity: "All right, you take another body and enjoy." But we foolish people, we do not know acceptance of material body is the source of all miserable conditions. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You simply try to understand." Janma karma me divyam. Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then the result will be tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. No more material body. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to stop these nonsense habits of the people. No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling. (old women talking in background) Oh, who is talking? Don't talk. (Hindi?) So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only propaganda to save man from the pitfalls of another material life, miserable condition, but to take him to the blissful life, eternal life, back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9].

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



681021DK.SEA

His Divine Grace

Bhaktiprajñāna Keśava Mahārāja's

Disappearance Day Lecture,

(Śrīla Prabhupāda's Sannyāsa Guru)

-

Seattle, October 21, 1968



Prabhupāda: One has to accept the renounced order from another person who is in renounced order. So I never thought that I shall accept this renounced order of life. In my family life, when I was in the midst of my wife and children, sometimes I was dreaming my spiritual master, that he's calling me, and I was following him. When my dream was over, I was thinking. I was little horrified. "Oh, Guru Mahārāja wants me to become sannyāsī. How can I accept sannyāsa?" At that time, I was feeling not very satisfaction that I have to give up my family and have to become a mendicant. At that time, it was a horrible feeling. Sometimes I was thinking, "No, I cannot take sannyāsa." But again I saw the same dream. So in this way I was fortunate. My Guru Mahārāja (Prabhupāda begins to cry, choked voice) pulled me out from this material life. I have not lost anything. He was so kind upon me. I have gained. I left three children, I have got now three hundred children. So I am not loser. This is material conception. We think that we shall be loser by accepting Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is loser. I say from my practical experience. I was thinking that "How can I accept this renounced order of life? I cannot accept so much trouble." So... But I retired from my family life. I was sitting alone in Vṛndāvana, writing books. So this, my Godbrother, he insisted me, "Bhaktivedanta prabhu..." This title was given in my family life. It was offered to me by the Vaiṣṇava society. So he insisted me. Not he insisted me. Practically my spiritual master insisted me through him, that "You accept." Because without accepting the renounced order of life, nobody can become a preacher. So he wanted me to become a preacher. So he forced me through this Godbrother, "You accept." So unwillingly I accepted. And then I remembered that he wanted me to go to the Western country. So I am feeling now very much obliged to my, this Godbrother, that he carried out the wish of my spiritual master and enforced me to accept this sannyāsa order.



*So this Godbrother, His Holiness Keśava Mahārāja, is no more. He has entered Kṛṣṇa's abode. So I wish to pass a resolution of bereavement and send them. So... And I have composed one verse also in this connection in Sanskrit. So you all present, you sign this. I shall send it tomorrow. The verse I have composed, it is in Sanskrit. Vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā means to become detestful to this material world. That is called vairāgya-vidya. And that is possible simply by this bhakti-yoga. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam apāyayan mām. So this... Just like medicine. The child is afraid of taking medicine. That also I have experienced. In my childhood, when I became ill, I was very stubborn. I won't accept any medicine. So my mother used to force medicine within my mouth with a spoon. I was so obstinate. So anyway, similarly, I did not want to accept this sannyāsa order, but this Godbrother forced me. "You must." Apāyayan mām, he forcefully made me to drink this medicine. Anabhīpsu andham. Why I was unwilling? Anabhīpsu means unwilling. Andham, andham means one who is blind, who cannot see his future. The spiritual life is the brightest future, but the materialists cannot see to it. You see? But the Vaiṣṇavas, the spiritual master, they forcefully, "You drink this medicine." You see. Apāyayan mām anabhīpsu andhām śrī-keśava-bhakti-prajñāna-nāma. So this my Godbrother, his name is Keśava, Bhaktiprajñāna Keśava. Kṛpāmbudhi. So he did this favor upon me because he was ocean of mercy. So we offer our obeisances to Vaiṣṇava, kṛpāmbudhi. Vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. The Vaiṣṇavas, the representatives of the Lord, they are so kind. They bring the ocean of mercy for distributing to the suffering humanity. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. So I am offering my respectful obeisances unto this His Holiness, because he forcefully made me adopt this sannyāsa order. So he is no more in this world. He has entered Kṛṣṇa's abode. So I am offering my respectful obeisances along with my disciples. On the first day of my sannyāsa, I never thought, but I remembered that I'll have to speak in English. So I remember on that sannyāsa day, when there was a reception, so I, first of all, I spoke in English. So it is all arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, higher authority. We are writing like this, "Resolved that we the undersigned members and devotees of International Society for Krishna Consciousness Incorporated, in a condolence meeting under the presidency of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, today the 21st of October, 1968, at our Seattle branch, express our profound bereavement on hearing the passing of His Divine Grace Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktiprajñāna Keśava Gosvāmī Mahārāja, the sannyāsa guru, preceptor of our spiritual master, and on October 6th, 1968, at his headquarter residence in Nabadwip, West Bengal. We offer our respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Śrī Śrīmad B. P. Keśava Gosvāmī Mahārāja with the following verse composed on this occasion by our spiritual master." This verse I have already explained to you. So I wish that you all sign this and I'll send it tomorrow by air mail. Have you got pencil?

Govinda dāsī: Yes. (sound of Prabhupāda signing) (end)





661104GP.NY

Govardhana Pūjā Lecture

-

New York, November 4, 1966



*Prabhupāda: Today Govardhanadhārī, Giridhārī, Lord Kṛṣṇa, today lifted the mountain. According to Vedic literature there are different demigods. Sometimes you will find in Greek mythology the gods of the water, gods of the thunderbolt. These are not imagination. Actually they are facts. But due to our insufficient knowledge we do not know how the material nature is being controlled. So when Kṛṣṇa was on this planet and He was playing the part of a cowherd boy, and it was known to all over the universe that "God has come, taken incarnation, and He is on the earth planet, and He is at Vṛndāvana playing the part of a cowherd boy..." So as if somebody, if there is incarnation of God, somebody believes and somebody does not believe, when Kṛṣṇa was actually present on this earth, it is not that everybody understood that Kṛṣṇa was the Supreme Personality of Godhead, not even up to date. Only few persons, the five brothers of the Pāṇḍavas and the damsels of Vṛndāvana, only in the fingers' count, say, out of the whole population, say, hundred or two hundred men knew Him that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise everyone thought that "He is an ordinary man just like one of us, but most powerful. That's all." Similarly, the demigods in other planets, they also thought, "Oh, he's a foolish person. They are thinking of a cowherd boy as God," sophisticated, like that. And especially Indra, the heavenly kingdom..., king of heaven. He was... He's very powerful, so he thought, "What god he has come? My God, He cannot come." This was some speculation. Even Brahmā also speculated. But Kṛṣṇa wanted to show Indra that "Yes, actually I have come." So that incidence is today, Govardhana*-pūjā.



So,

bhagavān api tatraiva

*baladeva*-saṁyutaḥ

apaśyan nivasan gopan

*indra*-yāga-kṛtodyamān



*Indra*-yāga-kṛtodyamān. According to Vedic system, there are different types of sacrifices to offer respect and obeisances to the demigods. Just like the sun is supplying light, the moon is supplying moonshine. Similarly, Indra is supplying the cloud. Similarly, there are different demigods. And in the Bhagavad-gītā, devan ya yajayantī deva-bhavan-these things are described. In the Vedic literature it is prescribed that "You should satisfy these demigods by sacrifice, deva-yajan." So in the village of that Vṛndāvana, the father of Kṛṣṇa, foster father of Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja and his associates, they were yearly performing the Indra-yajña. Because they were agriculturists, they depended on rain, sufficient rains. And he had many cows. Nanda Mahārāja was a farm man. He is agriculture and cows. The mercantile people, the vaiśya community, they are recommended three things: kṛṣi-go-raksya-vāṇijyam [Bg. 18.44]. Kṛṣi means agriculture, and go-rakṣya means cow protection, and vāṇijyam means trade. So Nanda Mahārāja belonged to the vaiśya community. So he was well-to-do man, very rich man, and he had 900,000's of cows. 900,000 of cows he was protecting. Formerly, according to Vedic civilization, a man was considered to be rich man in proportion of his stock of grains and livestock, cows. That's all. Dhānyena dhanavān. A man was considered to be rich man if he has sufficient quantity of grains in his possession. Similarly, if one has sufficient number of cows in his possession, he was considered rich man. Not that bank balance. There was no such bank, neither this paper money. They actually possessing the foodstuff and milk. And actually this is economic solution. If you have got sufficient milk, then you can make so many nice nutritious, full of vitamin values preparation and grains. There is no question of economic starvation if you have got simply grains and cows. So that was the standard of economic solution in days yore.



*So they were preparing just to satisfy the demigod Indra, because he was supposed to... Not supposed. Actually he supplies rains sufficiently. Without rains you cannot have successful agriculture. So they were preparing that sacrifice. So this preparation was being observed by Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. Kṛṣṇa is the youngest, and Balarāma is the eldest. Balarāma is son of Rohiṇī, and Kṛṣṇa is son of Devakī. Both these ladies, Rohiṇī and Devakī, they were wives of Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa's father. So Balarāma was born of Rohiṇī, and Kṛṣṇa was born of Devakī. Devakī*-nandana-gopāla. So Devakī-nandana. So They were not very... There was not much difference of Their age, say one year or two years, like that. So Balarāma was eldest brother. They were playing together, and this is an incidence when Balarāma was about eight years old and Kṛṣṇa was about seven years old. So, bhagavān tatraiva baladevena saṁyutaḥ. Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, along with Baladeva, His elder brother, apaśyan, "saw." What is that "saw"? Nivasan gopa indra-yāga-kṛtodyamān: "All the cowherds men, including His father, they were preparing for sacrifice of Indra-yajña." Indra-yajña.

*tad*-abhijño 'pi bhagavān

*sarvātmā sarva*-darśanaḥ

praśrāyavanato 'pṛcchad

*vṛddhān nanda*-puro-gamān



He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He knew everything what they were doing and what was the purpose. Because He is present in everyone's heart, so He knows everything. But because He was playing just like a boy, cowherd boy, so as if He did not know anything, He asked, inquired from His father, and the elderly persons who were assisting His father for preparing the sacrifice.



*Tad abhijño 'pi. This very word is used here, that "He knew everything," Bhagavān. Because Bhagavān means He must know everything, past, present future. There is no lack of knowledge. I have several times described before you. Bhagavān means He is full of all opulences, and there are six opulences: riches, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation. So Bhagavān cannot be in lack of knowledge. He must know everything. That is Bhagavān. So therefore it is said that "What is the use of asking His father what they were going to do? He knew everything." But it is specifically mentioned, atad abhijño'pi. Although He knew it, because He was playing the part of a boy, and the father knew that "Kṛṣṇa is my son..." They did not recognize Him that He is Personality of Godhead. They knew, "Oh, He is my ordinary son." Tad abhijño'pi bhagavān sarvātmā. Sarvātmā means one who is situated in everyone's heart. Sarvātmā sarva*-darśanaḥ. Sarva-darśanaḥ means one who can see everything past, present, and future. Still, praśrāyavantaḥ, "Just like an obedient son, submissive son," apṛcchad vṛddhān nanda-puro-gamān, "the elderly persons of His father's friends and associates, with very humbleness, He inquired." He inquired. And what is that inquiry?

kathyatāṁ me pitaḥ ko 'yaṁ

sambhramo vā upāgataḥ

kiṁ phalaṁ kasya coddeśaḥ

kena vā sādhyate makhaḥ



etad brūhi mahān kāmo

mahyaṁ śuśruṣave pitaḥ



"My dear father, I very respectfully and humbly I am inquiring. What is this arrangement? Why you are busy in making some sacrificial ceremony, and what is the reason, and what is the result?" Kiṁ phalaṁ: "What is the result of doing this?" Kiṁ phalaṁ kasya ca uddeśaḥ: "By whom... Whom you are trying to satisfy?" Kena vā sādhyate: "And what is the purpose of this sacrifice? So I cannot understand. Will you kindly explain to Me?" Etad brūhi mahān kāmo: "I am very much anxious. Kindly explain to me." Etad mahān kāmo mahyaṁ śuśruṣave pitaḥ: "Oh, I am your most obedient son, so you kindly explain to Me." This question was posed.



na hi gopyaṁ hi sādhūnāṁ

kṛtyaṁ sarvātmanām iha

*asya*-svapara-dṛṣṭināṁ

*amitro*-dāsastad viṣām



*"Now, if you think that it is very confidential, it cannot be disclosed, then I think for a person like you who is doing publicly such sacrifice, you should (sic:) not explain to Me." Na hi gopyaṁ hi sādhūnām: "Sādhu, those who are saintly person, for them there is no secret." There is no secret. There is no privacy. A sādhu, sādhu has no privacy. Just now in our ordinary social affairs, there is difference between private life and his public life. Now, if somebody is teacher... Now, he is very good teacher. He can very good... He can explain very nicely a subject matter, but his private life is not very good. Then he is not a teacher. He is not a sādhu. That is Vedic conception. One must be a teacher according to his own behavior in life. There is no secrecy or privacy. Now, we think that "We don't mind what is private character. We don't mind. We are concerned with his teaching." No. That sort of teaching will not have any effect. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āpani ācārī prabhu jīverī śikṣāya: a teacher must demonstrate in his practical life what he is teaching. That is the meaning of ācārya. Ācārya means the teacher must demonstrate things by applying the same thing in his own life. That is called ācārya. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "You cannot disclose anything. You cannot keep anything private. Please disclose." Udāsīno 'rivad varyam ātmavat suhṛd ucyate: "And even if it is very confidential, I am your son. You can explain to Him. I am your well*-wisher."



jñātvājñātvā ca karmāṇi

jano 'yam anutiṣṭhanti

*viduṣaḥ karma*-siddhiḥ syāt

tathā na viduṣo bhavet



*"Whether this is a superstition?" Just see how Kṛṣṇa is speaking. "Whether it is a superstition or it has got some actual effect." You should not do anything, religious rituals, under superstition. That is the recommendation of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not like that people should perform anything under superstition. Suppose if you are sacrificing, if you are doing some ceremony, you must have thorough knowledge that there must be the result. There must be the result. Just like there are many sacrifices recommended in the Vedic literature, putreṣṭī*-yajña. Putreṣṭī. Suppose a man has no son, and if he performs that sacrifice, he will have a son. That is a fact. Similarly, so many things there are.



So any rituals, religious rituals... Now, according to Kṛṣṇa... How practical He is. He said that "No religious ritual should be performed without practical effect, without practical effect." People have become atheist because in the modern age there are so many rituals in all religions, not only Hindu religion, but Christian religion. But, they say, simply formality; there is no effect. There is no effect. Such sort of rituals, religious ceremony, is not recommended by Kṛṣṇa. You must actually the effect. Just like in *Purāṇas* there was a talk between Lord Caitanya and Kazi, Chand Kazi. Chand Kazi was a Muhammadan magistrate, and Lord Caitanya, when He started this saṅkīrtana movement, there was many complaints. Just like we are receiving daily reports that our saṅkīrtana movement is disturbing some tenants here. Similarly, when Lord Caitanya, He started His, this saṅkīrtana, some of the brāhmaṇas... Because Lord Caitanya said that "This is the only religion. In this age, this chanting of

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



This is the only religious principle, and everyone will have all his desires fulfilled by this chanting." So the brāhmaṇas, those who are priestly class, they thought that "If people take to this only chanting, then what about our churches and mosque and temples? They will not come." So they lodged a complaint to the magistrate that "This is not Hindu religion. He has discovered something in His own fertile brain, so we do not recognize it." So this complaint was lodged before the magistrate, and the magistrate took step, first of all warned Him that "Don't chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then, when He did not care, then sent some constables, and the drums were broken. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu started civil disobedience movement. So He did not care for the magistrate. He started saṅkīrtana throughout the whole city of Nabadwip. Then they approached the magistrate's house. Just the other day there was a procession in your city. So this civil disobedience movement was started first by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Now, there was some compromising talk with the magistrate, and in that talk the Caitanya Mahāprabhu first questioned. Because he was Mohammedan, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "In your religion there is killing of father and mother. What sort of religion this is?" The Kazi replied, "How do you say that we are killing our father and...?" "Yes. You are killing your mother. Cow gives you milk, delivers milk. You drink the milk, and you kill the cow. Therefore you are killing your mother." So the Kazi replied that "In your Vedic literature also, I have seen. There is cow sacrifice." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, "That is not cow sacrifice. That is rejuvenation of cow. Old cows were sacrificed in the fire, and again a new life was given by the Vedic mantra. But because there is lack of such expert brāhmaṇas to chant that mantra, therefore cow sacrifice in this age is forbidden."



*So when the things are not practical, that becomes a forbidden. If you actually get the result by some spiritual or religious rituals, performance, then it is very good. Otherwise it is superstition. Lord Caitanya's opinion is that because all these Vedic injunctions, sacrifices, they are not possible to be performed in this age... They are very difficult. There is no expert leader to perform all these ceremonies and rituals. Therefore, take to this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take to this. There is no need of rituals. There is no need of expenses. Simply God has given you tongue, and God has given you ear. Just go on chanting: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and it will fulfill your spiritual advancement. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa said, jñātvā ajñātvā ca karmāṇi jano 'yam anutiṣṭhanti: "Generally, mass of people, they are ignorant. They perform some religious rituals knowingly or unknowingly as a matter of superstition or custom." So, viduṣa karma*-siddhiḥ syāt. But one who is intelligent, he should know that "By this sacrifice, I must get the result." Viduṣo karma-siddhiḥ syāt tathā na viduṣo bhavet: "And those who are fools, they, simply by superstition, they do it."

*So Kṛṣṇa did not recommend that you should do something under superstition. No. You must do it for practical result. This dogmatism, fanaticism-"Oh, why I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? I am Christian. I am Jews"*-this is fanaticism. If you find actually ecstasy by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, why should you not? Why should you not? "No. I am Jew." "I am Christian." "I am Muhammadan." Well, it is transcendental vibration from the spiritual platform. Your Muhammadism, Christianism, Hinduisim, Buddhism, this is skin disease. This is... Because you have got some particular body at particular circumstances, therefore you claim like that. But actually we are all spirit soul, and this sound vibration is from the spirit soul. It will appeal to everyone. See the effect. Then don't be fanaticist. Don't be, I mean to say, sectarian. So Kṛṣṇa wants that, that simply by custom, one should not follow the rituals. One should see the effect.

*tatra tāvāt kriyā*-yogo

bhavatāṁ kiṁ vicāritaḥ

athavā laukikas tan me

pṛcchata sādhu (bhaṇyatām)



"So, whether you are confident of the result of this sacrifice?" He is asking His father. Just see. Kṛṣṇa was a boy, and He is asking His father, "Whether you are confident of the result of this sacrifice? You are going to satisfy the demigods, sacrifice. Or," athavā laukikaḥ, "or it is simply a custom, village custom, that you are doing it?" Laukikas tan me pṛcchata sādhu bhaṇyatām: "Now I am very much inquisitive to learn from you. Please explain."



Now His father is explaining:

parjanyo bhagavān indro

*meghās tasyātma*-mūrtayaḥ

te 'bhivarṣanti bhūtānāṁ

prīṇanaṁ jīvanaṁ payaḥ



He says, "My dear boy, water is very essential because without rains we cannot have any produce. Therefore... This rain is controlled by Bhagavān Indra. The heavenly king Indra, he controls the megha." Megha means cloud. He is the master of the cloud. He can send cloud, and he can stop cloud. He is representative of God, so he has got the power. Te 'bhivarṣanti bhūtānāṁ prīṇanam: "So when he allows this raining, people become satisfied. They get their produce."



taṁ tāta vayam anye ca

cārmucāṁ patim īśvaram

*dravyais tad*-retasā siddhyair

yajante kratubhir narāḥ



"Therefore it is our duty. Because he supplies us water, so it is our duty to show him respect by this sacrifice." This is the Vedic injunction. Just like we pay departmental tax. We pay to the Con Edison bills for the supply of electricity and gas. Similarly, we pay the bills of the telephone. But we have no program to pay the bills of the sun who is supplying us so much light. (aside:) What is that?



Dineśa: That needle doesn't seem to be working.



Prabhupāda: So it is our duty to sacrifice, and according to Vedic rituals, these are recommended, that we should satisfy. So Nanda Mahārāja explained,



tac cheṣeṇopajīvanti

*tri*-varga-phala-hetve

*puṁsāṁ puruṣa*-kāraṇāṁ

*parjanyaḥ phala*-bhāvanaḥ



"Now, this water is so important that it will produce grains and we shall live. And for perfection of our life we must first live. So this is very important thing, so we have to satisfy Indra."



ya evaṁ visṛjed dharmaṁ

pāraṁ paryāgataṁ naraḥ

kāmā lobhād bhayād dveṣāt

sa vai nāpnoti śobhanam



*He says, "My dear boy, we should not give up this paramparā." Parampara means coming from disciplic succession or from generation. My father did it, my father's fathers did it. So every religious ceremony, and according to Vedic rituals, they are from paramparā, family or society*-wise or community-wise. In every country there is. So he says that "This paramparā, this successive generation, we have been doing this, and we should not give it up." He understood the Kṛṣṇa's purpose, that "He is asking. He is very intelligent boy, so He is asking me all these questions just to forbid me." That He's just... "Like father like son." The father was also intelligent.



So, ya evaṁ visṛjed dharmam. Dharmam means one must execute. That is dharma. Just like to become hungry, it is my religion. This is called religion. We should know what is the meaning of religion. Religion means which we cannot separate from myself. The religion which you can change, that is not religion. Suppose I am Hindu; I become Christian. So neither this Hinduism is religion or Christian is religion. It is a dictionary, English dictionary, word. But dharma, according to Sanskrit word, dharma does not mean that which you can change. I have several times explained this fact. Dharma cannot be changed. Therefore we must find out what is our dharma, what is our religion. Which we are professing, that "Christianity is my religion," "Hinduism, my religion," that is not religion. That is faith. Religion is different. Religion you cannot change. You cannot change. That is the meaning of religion. Here it is said that ya evaṁ visṛjed dharmam. Dharmam means you cannot change. So pāraṁ paryāgataṁ naraḥ, kāmāt, kāmāt lobhāt. Now, religion sometimes, when it is taken as faith, they have changed. How they have changed? Kāmāt. For some gain. Just like in India formerly Christian religion was preached, giving some facilities. And generally we see that Christian priests who go to foreign countries... I have seen. They offer some hospital facilities, some economic facilities. The poor men, they supply clothing and education. So those who are poor, they become captivated, and they... They have practically no religion. Anyway, they are facing the economic problems. So kāmāt. Kāmāt means for some gain. For some gain, kāmāt, and lobhāt... Lobhāt means by some greediness. And bhayāt. Bhayāt means out of fear. And dveṣāt. Dveṣāt means out of enviousness. For all these things one should not give up his faith or religion.

*So that, that was the explanation of Nanda Mahārāja, the father of Kṛṣṇa. Now Kṛṣṇa, replying, śrī bhagavān uvāca. The reason of that sacrifice, as explained by Nanda Mahārāja is that "Indra, the heavenly king, he supplies us water. Therefore we must perform the sacrifice to satisfy him." Now Kṛṣṇa is giving reason just like an atheist. Just like an atheist, karma*-mimāṁsā. There are six philosophers. Out of that one is karma-mimāṁsā. Karma-mimāṁsā means one who takes work and the result of work and nothing, no God, nothing of... "You work like this; *you get the result." Just like modern theory. So Kṛṣṇa is putting up that karma-mimāṁsā. What is that? He says, karmāṇa jāyate jantuḥ karmaṇaiva pralīyate: "Everyone is born here out of, as the effect of his past deeds." And karmaṇaiva pralīyate: "And he is going to have his next birth according to the work, as he is doing here." This is called karma-mimāṁsā. The karma-mimāṁsā philosophers, they do not believe that "Oh, our liberation from this material world and entrance in the spiritual kingdom to be associated with God, that will make us happy." Their belief is that "You simply do good work. Then you gradually get your promotion." That is also a fact. That is not a misconception. If you do good work, then you get good birth. Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. Four things: good birth, mean a good family or good nationality, and janma... Birth means... Janma means birth, good birth. Janma aiśvarya, and to become rich. Śruta, to become very learned; *and śrī, and to become very beautiful*-these are results of past good work. So here Kṛṣṇa says that "People are concerned with his work. A man is concerned with his work." Karmaṇā jāyate jantuḥ karmaṇaiva pralīyate: "He gets his facilities of life according to the past good work, bad work, and he is preparing his life, next, by that work." Sukhaṁ duḥkhaṁ bhayaṁ kṣemaṁ karmaṇaivābhipadyate: "So therefore, either happiness or distress or fearfulness or poverty or economic question, everything on this karma, on this work."

asti ced īśvaraḥ kaścit

*phala*-rūpy anya-karmaṇāṁ

kartāraṁ bhajate so 'pi

na hy akartuḥ prabhur hi saḥ



"Now, supposing there is somebody." Because these atheists, they do not believe in God, now they are giving arguments. "Now, suppose there is somebody as God or some supervisor or something like that. But still, he is obliged to give Me the effect. Therefore I am not going to ask mercy from that superior personality, God or something else. I have to work." And this is also fact. Suppose you are going to appear in some examination. Now, the university is giving you some designation. Now, that designation practically depends on your passing the examination. What is the use of flattering that examiner? That is the argument. There is no... His argument is that "You are after the sacrifice of satisfying the Indra." So indirectly He says that Indra is appointed by the Lord and he has to supply water. He is officer. So what is the use of flattering him? Just like there are many officers in the New York City. One is in charge of the waterwork department. So there is no question of flattering that waterworks department officer. You pay your tax, you work nicely, and water will be supplied to you. But if you don't pay your tax, however you flatter that officer, your connection will be cut off. So it depends on your work. It depends on your work.



*So, asti ced īśvaraḥ kaścit: "Supposing there is some God..." "There is some God." Just see. A God is preaching atheism. He is God Himself, and He says, "Supposing if there is some God." "Supposing if there is some God," kaścit phala*-rūpy anya-karmaṇām, "and He gives the result of your work." The karma-mimāṁsā philosophers, they accept God in this way, "Suppose there is God and He is to give us the result. So He is obliged. If we do nice work, He is obliged. So what is the use of flattering God? Let us do our duty nicely. Then He will be obliged." So Kṛṣṇa is following that argument. Asti ced īśvaraḥ kaścit phala-rūpy anya-karmaṇām, kartāraṁ bhajate so 'pi: "He also worships the worker. The worker has not to worship God. Because God gives you good result out of your good work; therefore, because you are doing good work, therefore God is worshiping you." Just see the argument. He says, kartāraṁ bhajate so 'pi na hy akartuḥ prabhur: "And one who does not do good work, even God does not like him. So there is no necessity of worshiping this heavenly god or any god, so let us have our duty done nicely. That will fetch us the desired result."

kim indreṇeha bhūtānāṁ

*sva*-sva-karmānuvartinām

anīsenānyathā kartuṁ

*svabhāva*-vihitaṁ nṛṇām



"So, therefore, there is no... Father, there is no necessity of satisfying this Indra. You are simply wasting your time. You are simply wasting your time."



Oh,

*svabhāva*-tantro hi janaḥ

svabhāvam anuvartate

*svabhāva*-stham idaṁ sarvaṁ

*sa*-devāsura-mānuṣam



*"Everyone is acting according to the modes of nature he has acquired, so whatever nature we have acquired..." His purpose is that "By nature we are mercantile people." Because His father was maintaining cows, so he is considered a mercantile man. Vaiśya*-karma svabhāva-jam. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. So He is giving stress that "Let us perform our duty as mercantile men honestly, and that will bring us result. Why should we go to worship these demigods?"



*Now, here is a point, that Kṛṣṇa does not approve the worship of demigods. That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñāna yajanty anya-devataḥ: [Bg. 7.20] "Those who are out of intelligence, they simply worship the demigods." In the Bhagavad-gītā or in the Bhāgavata, anywhere, worship of demigods is not very much recommended. So here also the same thing, that svabhāva-tantro hi janaḥ: "Everyone is carried by the modes of nature." Svabhāvam anuvartate: "And he cannot surpass the spell of the modes of nature." Svabhāvam anuvartante, svabhāvas tam idaṁ sarvam: "Everyone is under the control of the nature he has acquired." And sa-devāsura mānusaḥ. Sa-devāsura. "Always, either he is man or superman or animal, everyone is being controlled by the modes of nature."

dehān uccāvacāñ jantuḥ

prāpyotsṛjati karmaṇā

śatrur mitram udāsīnaḥ

karmaiva gurur īśvaraḥ



*He is giving so much stress on karma. There is no question of bhakti here. So dehān uccāvācāñ. There are difference of high-grade body and low-grade body. There are different kinds of body. Somebody has got very high grade body-very intelligent, very rich, very beautiful, very wealthy*-and somebody has low-grade body. So dehān uccāvacāñ jantuḥ prāpyotsṛjati karmaṇā: "Now, these high-grade and low-grade bodies are obtained according to the work he has done." Śatrur mitram udāsīnaḥ karmaiva gurur īśvaraḥ: "And one is the leader or one is a teacher or one is enemy or one is friend-everything is judged by this karma, by work." Just see how much he is giving stress on work. Karmaiva. Karmaiva gurur īśvaraḥ.



tasmāt sampūjayet karma

*svabhāva*-sthaḥ sva-karma-kṛt

añjasā yena varteta

tad evāsya hi daivatam



"Therefore you don't bother yourself about worshiping this god or that god, demigod. You just be faithful to your work, and then that will give you good result." Añjasā yena varteta tad evāsya hi daivatam.



ājīvaikataraṁ bhāvaṁ

yas tv anyam upajīvati

na tasmād vindate kṣemaṁ

jārān nāry asatī yathā



*He is condemning, that one's profession... He has... Lord Kṛṣṇa has in the Bhagavad*-gītā also said like that. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. One should not give up his own profession. Never mind even it is faulty. You have heard it from me. Just like He has given the example that fire, fire is so pure, still there is fault. There is smoke. So in spite of all fault one should not give up his own work, but he should do it faithfully and nicely and the result will come. Ājīvaikataraṁ bhāvaṁ yas tu. And He says here that "Anyone who gives up his own natural profession, natural aptitude, profession, so..." Na tasmād vindate kṣemaṁ jārān nāry asatī yathā.



Now, this is a very important question. Nāry asatī. Asatī. Asatī means not chaste, not chaste woman. Just like... In India, of course, it is very strict, that the woman is not to give up her husband and acquaint herself with any other man. This example is given that "An unchaste woman gives up her own husband and makes friendship with others; *similarly, one who gives up his own profession and takes other profession, he is also similarly unchaste." Unchaste. Nāry asatī yathā. Varteta brāhmaṇo vipra rājanya rakṣayā bhuvaḥ: "Therefore one should not deviate from his professional duties, just like the brāhmaṇas..." Brahman..., varteta brāhmaṇo vipraḥ: "Those who are brāhmaṇa, they should stick to their principle of life, simply spiritual culture." Rājanya rakṣayā bhuvaḥ: "And those who are kṣatriyas, they should stick to their protecting the citizen." The kingly order, royal order, their duty is to give protection to the... They should not simply collect tax. The kṣatriyas, this king is allowed to collect tax because he is supposed to give all protection to the people. So therefore it is said, rājanya rakṣayā bhuvaḥ. Rājanya means the royal order stick to his principle, how to give protection to the people. Similarly, vaiśyas tu vārtayā jīvet śūdras tu dvīja*-sevayā: "Similarly, these mercantile, they should live on their trade, and those who are śūdra, those who are laborer class, they should serve all these three classes." That is the rules.

Now,

*kṛṣi*-vāṇijya-go-rakṣā

kusīdaṁ tūryam ucyate

*vārtā catur*-vidhā tatra

*vayaṁ go*-vṛttayo 'niśam



"Now, according to scripture, we are vaiśya, and we should live not in the brahminical way or kṣatriya's way or śūdra's way, but we should live just like vaiśyas; and we are actually agriculturists, and we are actually protecting cows. Therefore we are vaiśyas. Our duty is to stick to our, faithfully stick to our business, stick to our work. What is the use of worshiping this god or that god?"



sattvaṁ rajas tama iti

*sthity*-utpatti-anta-hetavaḥ

rajasotpadyate viśvam

anyonyaṁ vividhaṁ jagat



Now He is forwarding the atheistic theory of Kapila, sāṅkhya philosophy. Sāṅkhya philosophy. Sāṅkhya philosophy theory is that there is no controller, there is no God, but the world is moving under nature's interaction. Just the modern scientists also say like that. The world... Every action of this material world is being acted... Just like sāṅkhya philosophy is based on this philosophy, that a man and woman is attracted and they have sex life and the son is produced, and there is no other reason for population. Simply a man wants a woman and a woman wants a man. That natural tendency is there, and when they combine together there is a birth of a child. So this is a natural sequence. Sāṅkhya philosophy is based on this principle. They do not believe that above this, there is God. Nirīśa. Above this, there is God. There is God's control. Actually there is God. Sexual intercourse is not the cause of a child. According to Bhāgavata, a living entity, before his death he is, by superior judgement it is thought that "Where this living entity, where this particular man or dog or anything... He is dying. Where it will be placed?" So when that place is sanctioned, the place is selected, that "This particular man should go in such and such body," then he is at once transferred to the semina. That small particle, spiritual particle, is transferred to the semina of the father, and the father injects the semina into the mother's womb, and it gets a particular type of body according to his karma. That is Bhāgavata's version. But the Sāṅkhya philosophy, they say, because they have no idea that there is spiritual spark, they think simply that, simply the father and mother's or man and woman's sex life produces life.



*So here practically the same thing is advocated by Kṛṣṇa, that sattvaṁ rajas tama iti sthity*-utpatty-anta-hetavaḥ. Now, the creation of this material world is the three modes of material nature. There is no other cause. There is no other cause. Rajasā coditā meghā varṣanty ambūni sarvataḥ: "So when there is too much heat by, I mean to say, aggravation of the modes of passion, there is evaporation of water, and that becomes cloud, and that is the cause of... The cloud is the cause of rain. Why do you go to this Indra and Candra and all these things?" Just see Kṛṣṇa, how He is speaking atheistically. So prajās tair eva sidhyanti mahendraḥ kiṁ kariṣyati: "Therefore that rain constitutes agriculture. So why do you bother about this Mahendra?" Just like modern scientists say that "We shall artificially make raining so that where there is scarcity of rain we shall fertilize the land, we shall get production," so similarly, the sāṅkhya philosophy, according to sāṅkhya philosophy, that rain is caused by the heat, and by the heat there is cloud in the sky, and the cloud is the cause of the rain. So there is no question of Mahendra, the controller of the cloud, or anything else.

prajās tair eva sidhyanti

mahendraḥ kiṁ kariṣyati



*na naḥ puro jana*-padā

na grāmā na gṛhā vayam

vanaukasas tāta nityaṁ

*vana-śaila*-nivāsinaḥ



"So therefore we are not going to the city. We are inhabitants of this village. So it is better to worship this land, this land, this land, Govardhana." Because Kṛṣṇa was herding His cows on the Govardhana Hill, so indirectly He hinted that "We should worship this Govardhana Hill, and that is our duty."



So it is a long story, three, four chapters. Of course, it will take some time. I don't think you can give us so much time. The net, the result is that when Kṛṣṇa talked like this, then His father agreed not to perform the sacrifice. Because all the inhabitants of Vraja, Vṛndāvana, they are so much fond of Kṛṣṇa, whatever Kṛṣṇa will say, they will accept. So although Kṛṣṇa was a boy, He implored his father and other elderly gentlemen present there that "There is no need of performing this sacrifice." So they stopped sacrifice. As a result of this stopping, Indra became very much angry, and there was torrents of rain, incessant rain, and very vehemently. So the whole village and whole tract of land comprising the Vrajabhūmi, they became overflooded. And the cows and the animals and the people became too much afflicted. So they had no other source. They approached Kṛṣṇa, "Protect us. Kṛṣṇa, protect us." So at that time Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, I will give you protection." So He was, although a boy of six or seven years old, He lifted that hill. That is... We are... If any time you go to India you will see the hill. It is not less than at least five, six miles area, very big hill. That hill was lifted by Him, and He kept that hill in His hand for seven days. And then everything was cleared. Then Indra prayed Him.

So there are many things after this. So today Kṛṣṇa lifted this hill; *therefore His name is Giridhārī. Giridhārī means who held the hill. Giri means the hill, and dhārī means one who holds up. So today is that, is the annual ceremony of today, this Govardhana*-pūjā. So we follow that principle. Because we are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to follow His instruction. So at noontime we shall perform that pūjā, and you are invited to take prasādam. I think prasādam will be ready by eleven o'clock, and you will kindly participate in taking prasādam. (end)



681209DB.LA

His Divine Grace

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Disappearance Day, Lecture

-

Los Angeles, December 9, 1968





(Prabhupāda leads kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. I was thinking of "Where is Jayānanda?" now immediately he has come. (someone brings some kind of offering and Śrīla Prabhupāda says to give it to his Guru Mahārāja) Take care it may not fall down. (pause) All right.



*So today is the disappearance day of my Guru Mahārāja. As I told you that sādhavo jīva vā mara vā. There was a nice story the other day I told you that a sage is giving different kinds of blessings to different types of persons. So to a king's son, a prince, he blessed, rāja*-putra ciraṁ jīva: "You are a king's son, a prince. You live forever." And muni-putra, the son of a saintly person, he blessed him, mā jīva mā jīva: "You don't live." Rāja-putra ciraṁ muni-putra mā jīva. And sādhu, devotees, he blessed him, jīva vā mara vā: "Either you live or you die, as you like." And there was a butcher, he blessed him, mā jīva mā mara: "You don't die, don't live." So these words are very significant. That I have already explained, still I am explaining. A prince, he's enjoying sense, that's all. He has got enough facility for sense enjoyment. So his next life is hellish. Because if you indulge in sex life, then Kṛṣṇa will give you facility to have sex life three times in an hour, just like the pigeons, the monkeys, the sparrows, they are very sexually strong. You have seen it. So the facility is given. So princely order, they are after sense enjoyment. So he's blessed that "Better you live forever, because after your death, you do not know what is going to happen to you. You are going to get a hellish life. Better you live for some time. Go on with your enjoyment." And muni-putra mā jīva. Brahmacārī, working under the guidance under strict disciplinary guidance, of a spiritual master, he is blessed, mā jīva, "You better die. Because you are so trained to enter into the kingdom of God, so why should you take so much trouble? Better you die and go back to Godhead." Ma jīva. And a devotee he blessed, jīva va maro va: "My dear devotee, either you live or die, the same thing." And the butcher, he blessed him, ma jīva ma mara: "You don't live, don't die." What he's to do? His living condition is so abominable. From the morning, he has to slaughter so many animals, see the bloodstain, the ghastly scene. That is his livelihood. So what a horrible life this is. So "Don't live. And don't die also." Because after death, oh, he is going to be in so much hellish condition, nobody can describe. So both lives, living condition and death, after death, his condition is very horrible.

*Anyway, apart from others, the devotee, for him, appearance and disappearance the same thing. Just like when my spiritual master appeared at Jagannātha Purī... He was the son of a very big government officer, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He was magistrate, government officer. In those days a magistrate is a big officer in the government, practically next to governor. And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was in charge of the Jagannātha temple. That is the system in Jagannātha Purī. The manager in charge of the temple is the district magistrate. So there was a Ratha*-yātrā festival, and the car was passing in front of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's house. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's name was Kedaranath Datta. When he was magistrate, he was known as K.N. Datta. Kedaranath Datta. So the car stopped before his house, and at that time, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, a child in the lap of his mother. The mother took the opportunity of rising on the car. He (She) was magistrate's wife, so he (she) had the facility. Immediately, people gave her way to go on the top of the car and place the child on the lotus feet of Jagannātha. And there were many garlands. One garland fell upon him, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, blessings. This was one of the... There were so many other things.

When he was a child two, three years old, he ate one mango fruit which was kept for offering to the Deity. So his father mildly rebuked him, "Oh, you have done a very wrong thing. It was meant for Deity, and you have taken it. You should not have done it." The child was two or three years old. He took it so seriously that never after that he took mango. Whenever we offered him mango he said, "No, I am offender. I cannot take mango." He was thinking like that, you see. Never in his life he took a mango. He was thinking that "I offended in my childhood by taking the mango of the Deity." This is the characteristic of ācārya. They teach by their life's action that one should be so much determined, that one should not be... A child took the mango, there was no offense. But he took that vow.

Another instance, in my presence. At that time, we were also young men, and one of my Godbrothers, his name is Dr. Oul Bihari Kapoor... He's now retired in Vṛndāvana, last time I saw him. He was also young man, and his wife was also young. So we were sitting together, talking with Guru Mahārāja, and the girl proposed, "My dear master, I want to speak with you." So Guru Mahārāja said, "Yes, you can talk whatever you like." So she said, "I want to talk with you secretly, not in the presence of everyone." Guru Mahārāja said, "No. I cannot talk with you secretly. You can talk in the presence of my all other disciples." So even that girl was just like his granddaughter by age calculation, he refused to talk with a young woman in a secret place. These are the instances.

*So in his life he was akhaṇḍa brahmacārī. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura had many other sons, and he was the fifth son. And some of his other brother also, they did not marry. And my Guru Mahārāja, he also did not marry. From the childhood he is strict brahmacārī, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja. And he underwent very severe penances for starting this movement, worldwide movement. That was his mission. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura wanted do this. He, 1896, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura wanted to introduce this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by sending this book, Shree Chaitanya Mahāprabhu, His Life and Precepts. Fortunately, that year was my birth year, and by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, we came in contact. I was born in a different family, my Guru Mahārāja was born in a different family. Who knew that I will come to his protection? Who knew that I would come in America? Who knew that you American boys will come to me? These are all Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. We cannot understand how things are taking place. In 1936... Today is ninth December, 1938(68). That means thirty-two years ago. In Bombay, I was then doing some business. All of a sudden, perhaps on this date, sometimes between 9 or 10 December. At that time, Guru Mahārāja was indisposed little, and he was staying at Jagannātha Purī, on the seashore. So I wrote him letter, "My dear master, your other disciples, brahmacārī, sannyāsī, they are rendering you direct service. And I am a householder. I cannot live with you, I cannot serve you nicely. So I do not know. How can I serve you?" Simply an idea, I was thinking of serving him, "How can I serve him seriously?" So the reply was dated 13th December, 1936. In that letter he wrote, "My dear such and such, I am very glad to receive your letter. I think you should try to push our movement in English." That was his writing. "And that will do good to you and to the people who will help you." That was his instruction. And then in 1936, on the 31st December-that means just after writing this letter a fortnight before his departure*-he passed away. But I took that order of my spiritual master very seriously, but I did not think that I'll have to do such and such thing. I was at that time a householder. But this is the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. If we strictly try to serve the spiritual master, his order, then Kṛṣṇa will give us all facilities. That is the secret. Although there was no possibility, I never thought, but I took it little seriously by studying a commentary by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura on the Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā the verse vyavasāyātmikā-buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana [Bg. 2.41], in connection with that verse, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his commentary that we should take up the words from the spiritual master as our life and soul. We should try to carry out the instruction, the specific instruction of the spiritual master, very rigidly, without caring for our personal benefit or loss.

So I tried a little bit in that spirit. So he has given me all facilities to serve him. Things have come to this stage, that in this old age I have come to your country, and you are also taking this movement seriously, trying to understand it. We have got some books now. So there is little foothold of this movement. So on this occasion of my spiritual master's departure, as I am trying to execute his will, similarly, I shall also request you to execute the same order through my will. I am an old man, I can also pass away at any moment. That is nature's law. Nobody can check it. So that is not very astonishing, but my appeal to you on this auspicious day of the departure of my Guru Mahārāja, that at least to some extent you have understood the essence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You should try to push it on. People are suffering for want of this consciousness. As we daily pray about devotees,

*vāñchā*-kalpatarubhyaś ca

*kṛpā*-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo

vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.]



*A Vaiṣṇava, or devotee of Lord, his life is dedicated for the benefit of the people. You know*-most of you belong to Christian community-how Lord Jesus Christ, he said that for your sinful activities he has sacrificed himself. That is the determination of devotee of the Lord. They don't care for personal comforts. Because they love Kṛṣṇa or God, therefore they love all living entities because all living entities are in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. So similarly you should learn. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to become Vaiṣṇava and feel for the suffering humanity. So to feel for the suffering humanity, there are different angles of vision. Somebody is thinking of the suffering of the humanity from bodily conception of life. Somebody is trying to open hospital to give relief to the diseased condition. Somebody is trying to distribute foodstuff in poverty-stricken countries or places. These things are certainly very nice, but actual suffering of the humanity is due to lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These bodily sufferings, they are temporary; *neither they can be checked by the laws of nature. Suppose if you give some distribution of foodstuff in some poverty*-stricken country, that does not mean that this help makes solution of the whole problem. The real beneficial work is to invoke every person to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... The same example, as I have given several times, that a rich man's son is loitering in the street, forgetting his father's opulence and property. And somebody, out of sympathy, giving him some food. But other person comes to him and says, "Oh, my dear boy, I know you. You are the son of such and such rich man. Why you are loitering in the street? Come on, I shall take you to your father." So if that gentleman takes that loitering boy to his father, the father is glad, and the boy inherits his father's property, and his whole problem of life becomes solved. This is a crude example. Similarly, all living entities, they are loitering within this universe in different bodies, in different planets, and from time immemorial, without knowing that he belongs to the kingdom of God, he is the direct son of Kṛṣṇa and God, that Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of everything, and he can enjoy his father's property, and these problems of material conditioned life automatically solved. Just like if you become a rich man, if you can possess millions of dollars, then your poverty is automatically solved. Similarly, if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and if you act in that way, then all other problems in the material conditional life-solved.



*So this is such a nice movement. Ahaṁ tvaṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg. 18.66]. The Bhagavad-gītā says, the Lord says, people's sufferings are due to his sinful activities. Ignorance. Ignorance is the cause of sinful activity. Just like a man does not know. Suppose a foreigner like me comes in America and he does not know... Because in India... Just like in your country, the car is driven from the right side; in India, I've seen in London also, the car is driven from the left side. So suppose he does not know, he drives the car on the left side and incurs some accident, and he is taken by the police custody. And if he says, "Sir, I did not know that here the car is driven from the right side," that does not make him excused. The law will punish him. So ignorance is the cause of breaking the law or sinful activities. And as soon as you commit some sinful activity, you have to suffer the result. So the whole world is in ignorance, and due to ignorance he's complicated in so many actions and reactions, either good or bad. There is nothing good within this material world; *everything is bad. So we have manufactured something good and something bad. Here... Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand this place is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This place is for misery. So how you can say, in miserable condition, how you can say that "This is good" or "This is bad." Everything is bad. So those persons who do not know-the material, conditional life*-they manufacture something, "This is good, this is bad," because they do not know everything here is bad, nothing good. One should be very much pessimistic of this material world. Then he can make advance in spiritual life. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This place is full of miseries, and if you study analytically, you'll find simply miserable condition. Therefore the whole problem is that we should give up our material conditional life, and in Kṛṣṇa consciousness we should try to elevate ourself to the spiritual platform and thereby be promoted to the kingdom of Godhead, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6], where going, nobody comes back to this miserable world. And that is the supreme abode of the Lord.

*So there are description in the Bhagavad*-gītā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is authorized, very important. Now, you American boys and girls who have taken to this movement, please take it more seriously and... That is the mission of Lord Caitanya and my Guru Mahārāja, and we are also trying to execute the will by disciplic succession. You have come forward to help me. I shall request you all that I shall go away, but you shall live. Don't give up pushing on this movement, and you'll be blessed by Lord Caitanya and His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Goswami Prabhupāda.

Thank you very much. Any question? (pause) Any question?

Devotee: When your spiritual master was a little boy, did, was he, um, did he do things like Lord Caitanya did like when He went to the, um, like when Lord Caitanya went to the water and all girls were asking for...



*Prabhupāda: No, he was not so much naughty. (laughs) My Guru Mahārāja was very gentle boy. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very naughty boy. Yes. (laughs) And Kṛṣṇa was also very naughty boy. (pause) Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana*-Viṣṇujana leads, Śrīla Prabhupāda chants along) I have brought prasādam for you. Take. (long pause as prasādam is served out and devotees chant japa) Can stop it? (end)





731213DB.LA

His Divine Grace

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Disappearance Day, Lecture

-

Los Angeles, December 13, 1973



Prabhupāda:



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya

*kṛṣṇa*-preṣṭhāya bhūtale

śrīmate bhaktisiddhānta

sarasvatīti nāmine



Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura passed away from this material world on 31st December, 1936. So almost forty years past. So there are two phases, prakaṭa and aprakaṭa, appearance and disappearance. So we have nothing to lament on account of disappearance because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's devotee... Not only devotees, even the nondevotees, nobody disappears. Nobody disappears because every living entity... As Kṛṣṇa is eternal... It is confirmed in the Vedic literature, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The description of the Supreme Lord is that He is also nitya, eternal, and the living entities are also eternal. But He is the chief eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. So qualitatively, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and the living entities. And quantitatively, there is difference. What is the difference between nitya, the singular number nitya, and the plural number nitya? The plural number nitya is subordinate, eternal servants of the singular number nitya. Just like if you want to serve somebody, so the master is also exactly like you. He has got two hands, two legs, or the same sentiments. He also eats. Everything is same there. But the difference is the master and the servant. That's all. Otherwise, equal in every respect.



*So spiritually, appearance and disappearance, there is no difference. Just like in material point of view, if a person takes birth... Suppose you get a son born, you become very happy. The same son, when passes away, you become very unhappy. This is material. And spiritually, there is no such difference, appearance or disappearance. So although this is the disappearance day of Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, so there is nothing to be lamented. Although we feel separation, that feeling is there, but spiritually, there is no difference between appearance and disappearance. There is a song, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song, ye anilo prema*-dhana. Do you know, any one of you? Can you sing that song anyone? Oh. Ye anilo prema-dhana, karuṇā pracura, heno prabhu kothā gelo. I don't remember exactly the whole song. That is our lamentation, that Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura brought this message to distribute all over... Of course, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu expressed His desire, that

*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



He predicted that "All over the world, as many towns and villages are there, everywhere My name will be known." Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name. Which is now, attempted now, it is being actually... To execute this will of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said personally,



bhārata bhūmīte manuṣya janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*He wanted that His name should be broadcast all over the world in every town and village. And who would do it? That He asked that anyone who has taken birth in Bhārata*-varṣa, India, it is his duty: first of all make himself perfect by understanding the philosophy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu; then broadcast it, distribute it. This was the duty of every Indian.



*So Indian, especially in India, they have got the privilege to take advantage of the Vedic literature. In other countries there is no such advantage. So if anyone wants to make his life perfect, then he has to take advantage of the vast treasure*-house of Indian spiritual knowledge. Even one Chinese gentleman, he has written one book about religion. That is a course in New York University. So he has said that "If you want to know something of religion, then you have to go to India." That's a fact. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that every Indian... There is need of broadcasting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, all over the world. So it is the duty of every Indian to first of all make his life perfect. He must know... Perfection means he must know what is his position and what he has to do. That is perfection. At the present moment, people do not know what he is even, whether he is this body or something extra. The big, big scientists, they are also failure. This is perfection. First of all one must know what he is, whether he is this body or something beyond this body. This is the beginning of spiritual knowledge. So that advantage is there in India, by culture, by education. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu requested that Indians, bharatiya, Bhārata-varṣa, those who have taken birth as human being... He doesn't speak to the animals. Bhārata bhūmīte mānuṣya janma. Mānuṣya janma means human being. Because without being a human being, nobody can understand these things. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand. So a person whose behavior is like cats and dogs, he also cannot understand. Therefore He said, janma sārthaka kari. First of all make your life perfect and then distribute this knowledge. This is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.

So He simply said, but He was expecting that in later days His followers would do that. So that attempt was made by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he desired and, that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message, it should be accepted by East and West equally, and both the Indians and Europeans, Americans, they should dance together in ecstasy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. That was his desire, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He simply expressed the desire, "When I shall see this happening, that both the eastern and western people they are united on the basis of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult and dancing together in ecstasy?" That was his ambition. That was ambition of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and this was ambition of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. And Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura took up this affair, business, and he wanted first of all.

So every student, any disciple, every disciple, especially those who are competent, he requested that "You take up this mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and preach in the western countries. That was Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's first attempt. Before that, even the ācāryas, Rūpānuga Gosvāmīs, they left literature, but they did not attempt to preach practically. And Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he was very, very anxious to preach this Caitanya cult in the western countries. This is Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's special contribution.

*So when I met Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura... It is a long story, how I met him. One of my friends, he dragged me. (laughing) (laughter) I was at that time nationalist and manager in a big chemical factory. My age was about twenty-four years. So one of my friends, he asked me that "There is a nice sādhu, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. He has come in Calcutta. So let us go and see." So I was reluctant. I thought just like so, there are so many sādhus. So I was not very much... Because I had very bad experience, not very good. So I said, "Oh these kind of sādhus, there are many." You'll be glad to know that even my in young age or early age*-it was Kṛṣṇa's grace-even amongst my young friends, I was considered the leader. (laughing) (laughter) In my school days, in my college days, in my private friendship, some way or other I became their leader. And one astrologer sometimes he read my hand. He said in Hindi, kukum calena(?). Kukum calena means "Your hand speaks that your order will be executed."

Devotees: Jaya!



*Prabhupāda: So anyway, it was Kṛṣṇa's grace. I would not go, but their point of view was that unless I certify that sādhu, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he'll not be accepted. Therefore he dragged me. So I went to see Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura on that day. On the first meeting, just we offer our obeisances. It is the practice. So immediately he began his talking that "You are all educated young men. Why don't you take up Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult and preach all over the English knowing public? Why don't you take up this matter?" So I argued with him in so many... At that time I was nationalist. So I told that "Who will accept our message? We are dependent nation. Nobody will care." In this way, in my own way, in these younger days... But we belonged to the Vaiṣṇava family, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda, Rādhā-Govinda. That is our worshipable Deity. So I was very glad that "Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa cult, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult, this sādhu is trying to preach. It is very nice."



So at that time we had some talks, and of course I was defeated by his argument, my argument. (laughter) And then, when we came out, we were offered prasādam, very nice treatment, the Gauḍīya Matha. And when I came out on the street, this my friend asked me, "What is your opinion of this sādhu?" Then I said that "Here is the right person who has taken up Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message, and now it will be distributed."

Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: So I was at that time a fool, but I opined like this. And I accepted him as my spiritual master immediately. Not officially, but in my heart. That was in 1922. Then, in 1923, I left Calcutta on my business tour. And I made my headquarter at Allahabad. Allahabad is about five hundred miles from Calcutta. So I was thinking that "I met a very nice saintly person." That was my thinking always. So in this way, in 1928, there was a Kumbhamelā. At that time, these Gauḍīya Matha people came to Allahabad to establish a center there, and somebody else said, somebody informed them that "You go to that Prayāga Pharmacy." My drug shop was named as Prayāga Pharmacy. My name was also there. "You go and see Abhaya Babu. He is religiously... He will help you." These Gauḍīya Matha people, they came to see me. So "Sir, we have come to you. We have heard your good name. So we want to start a temple here. Please try to help us." And because I was thinking of these Gauḍīya Matha people that "I met a very nice, saintly persons," and as soon as I saw them, I was very much engladdened: "Oh, here are these persons. They have come again."



*So in this way, gradually, I became attached to these Gauḍīya Matha activities, and by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, my business also was not going very well. (laughter) (laughs) Yes. Kṛṣṇa says yasyāham anughṛṇāmi hariṣye tad*-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. If somebody wants to be actually devotee of Kṛṣṇa, at the same time, keeps his material attachment, then Kṛṣṇa's business is He takes away everything material, so that cent percent he becomes, I mean to say, dependent on Kṛṣṇa. So that actually happened to my life. I was obliged to come to this movement to take up this very seriously. And I was dreaming that "Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura is calling me, 'Please come out with me!' " (pause) So I was sometimes horrified, "Oh, what is this? I have give up my family life? Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura is calling me? I have to take sannyāsa?" Oh, I was horrified. But I saw several times, calling me. So anyway, it is by his grace I was forced to give up my family life, my so-called business life. And he brought me some way or other in preaching his gospel.

So this is a memorable day. What he desired, I am trying little bit, and you are all helping me. So I have to thank you more. You are actually representative of my Guru Mahārāja (Śrīla Prabhupāda starts to cry) because you are helping me in executing the order of my Guru Mahārāja.

Thank you very much. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



751222DB.BOM

His Divine Grace

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Disappearance Day, Lecture

-

Bombay, December 22, 1975



Prabhupāda:



pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca

janā na vidur āsuraḥ

na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate

[Bg. 16.7]



*Na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate. This is a verse from the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad*-gītā, where the Lord is describing the symptoms of the demons. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca. Pravṛtti means inclination, inclined. And nivṛtti means disinclined. So there are two things within this material world. Our inclination is to enjoy the senses. This is general. Everyone within this material world, even the animals, birds, beasts, human being or more elevated than human beings, the demigods, kinnaras, or the, many other higher types of living entities... There are different grades of living entities-8,400,000 different bodies. So what is their pravṛtti, inclination? The inclination is attraction of man and woman. This is the central point of attraction. Puṁsāṁ striyaḥ maithuni-bhāvam etad: the whole material world is existing on this point-sex, man and woman. So this is pravṛtti-mārga, and nivṛtti-mārga: just to stop it. This is called nivṛtti-mārga.



We are within this material world on account of this pravṛtti, sense enjoyment. Those who are inclined to sense enjoyment and do not care to know what is the aim of life, they are called asuras. And those who are trying to avoid the entanglement of this material life and revive the whole original life... Whole original life means Kṛṣṇa conscious life. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our original consciousness is that "I have got intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa as His part and parcel." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the, my conception is the bodily conception, that "I am this body. I am born in this country; *therefore I belong to this nation, I belong to this community, I belong to this family, I belong to this species," this is called pravṛtti*-mārga. This is scientific division, pravṛtti-mārga and nivṛtti-mārga. Why the scientific? Because it is the fact. Science means fact. I am not this body. I am spirit soul. That is, just like a man suffering from some disease, so that is not his normal life to suffer from some disease. Normal life is to keep healthy life, no disease. That is normal life. So in order to keep to the normal life, we must know how to cure the disease. Just like when you have got fever, you go to the doctor, he says, advises "You do this" and "You do not do this." The "do not do this" means nivṛtti-mārga, and "do this," pravṛtti-mārga. If you are serious to cure your disease, then you must know what you should do and what you should not do. But just like a man, a very foolish man, he is suffering from disease but he does not know how to cure the disease, what to do and what not to do, similarly an animal-like man, a two-legged man, he does not know what to do and what not to do. This is explained here.

Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca, janā, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca, janā na vidur āsurāḥ [Bg. 16.7]. Janā, there are two kinds of men, asura and daiva. Daiva āsurā eva ca. There are two all throughout the whole universe, there are two classes of men: one is called daiva, and one is called āsura. One who knows his relationship with God, he is called daiva, and one who does not know, just like animal, they are called āsura. There is no particular caste or creed, that here is a caste of āsura, caste of daiva. No. Anyone who knows what is God and his relationship with God, sambandha, and then works according to that relation, and achieve the goal of life, he is called daiva, or devatā. And one who does not know this, what is the goal of life, what is God, what is my relationship with God, he is āsura.

*So, Kṛṣṇa has described everything, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, and today, this night, we are trying to explain the mission of Kṛṣṇa, because the same mission is being carried out by us beginning from Brahmā, and today is a special day, the disappearance day of my Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Goswami. So these ācāryas, they come and they go, that is not like ordinary birth and death. It is called prakaṭa, aprakaṭa, āvirbhāva, tirobhāva. So even ordinarily nobody takes birth and nobody dies, na jāyate na mrīyate vā kadācit, so what to speak of the ācāryas, or Bhagavān. Nobody, a living entity, a living being... God is the supreme living being, and we are subordinate living beings. Both of us, we are living beings, so what is the difference between the two kinds of living beings? The difference is that the one, God, or Kṛṣṇa, He maintains all the other living beings. And we are being maintained. This is the difference. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The plural number living entities, we are plural number, in different species of life, but we are maintained by the Supreme Being.

*So this is our relationship. If we understand this relationship, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān, that is our real understanding. Just like in your office or in a factory, there is a proprietor, he is maintaining so many workers, so many clerks. And what is your duty? To serve him. So similarly, if the Supreme Being, the supreme proprietor, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasaṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*If the factory man knows that he is not the proprietor, he is not the enjoyer of the profit*-the enjoyer of the profit is the proprietor of the factory, and we are worker-then there is peace. And if the workers fight amongst themselves, that "I am the proprietor," falsely, then there is chaos. There is no production, chaos. Similarly, if we fight ourselves, amongst ourselves, that "I am proprietor of India; you are proprietor of America; *you are proprietor of Germany," this is false conception of life. Real proprietor is Kṛṣṇa. If we know this, bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasam... Kṛṣṇa says that "Bhokta, I am bhokta, I am the enjoyer." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasaṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29], "I am the final proprietor, or the supreme proprietor," that's a fact; *then there is peace. This is our relationship, that we are part and parcel. We are not non*-important: the factory is going on, or the whole world is going on, on account of the living entities. Apareyam itas tu vidhi me prakṛtiṁ parā. Kṛṣṇa says that "Beyond this material energy," bhūmir āpo' nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4], "these eight kinds of prakṛti, they are my separated energy. But there is another kind of superior energy," yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtim. Just like same example: in the factory there are ingredients and there are workers. So the ingredients are compared with the material energy, bhūmir āpo' nalo vāyuḥ. They are also the property of the workers, because they are living being, jīva bhūtaḥ mahā-bāho yayedam dhāryate jagat, those who are working for development of this material world. The same example.



So this is knowledge. We should understand that everything belonging to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nothing is manufactured by us, so He is the proprietor; but because we are His sons, we have got the legal right to enjoy the property of the father. That is all right; that is real communism. This is actual understanding of communism: everything belongs to God. Just like the Communists, they are thinking everything belongs to the state, and the citizens must work and enjoy. So our philosophy is the same. Only difference is that they are, what is called, ignorantly accepting the state is the proprietor. No. If they accept God is the proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, then Communism is very perfect. That is missing. That is missing. Actually, God is the proprietor. What is the state? That is artificial. This state, American state, or African state, Russian state, these are artificial. Actually the land belongs to God. We are demark: this is India, this is Russia, this is America. That is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand this fact:

īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ

yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā

mā gṛdha kasyasvid dhanam

[Īśo mantra 1]



*This is the real understanding. Everything belongs to God-īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam*-everything, and tena tyaktena bhuñjithā, whatever He gives you as prasādam... Just like our principle is that we are working for Kṛṣṇa, this is real philosophy. Every one of us, one who is offering ārati, he is also working for Kṛṣṇa, and one who is building this construction, temple, he is also working for Kṛṣṇa. So as worker for Kṛṣṇa there is no distinction. Variety. Variety of service.



*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means variety of service to the Supreme. The example is just like, the varieties of different parts of the body: the head is there, the hand is there, the brain is there, the leg is there. The head cannot work like the leg, neither the leg can work like the brain. The hand cannot work the belly, or belly cannot work like the hand. Varieties. Similarly, there are varieties of service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and if we serve Kṛṣṇa with our varieties, sa karmaṇā manasā vācā, then it is everything peaceful. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do not want to stop the varieties. Varieties must be there. We are not nirveśeṣa-vādī, impersonalist. No. We are completely personalist. Kṛṣṇa is person, Rādhārāṇī is person, the devotees are person, the demigods are person, the cats person, the dogs person, the cows person, the calves person. But what is the meaning of Vṛndāvana? Vṛndāvana means everyone*-the father and mother of Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodāmāyī, the gopīs, the girlfriends of Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī and others, and the cowherd boys, and the cows, the calfs, the trees, the flowers, the fruits, the water. Everyone is for serving Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means there is variety, and varieties of service and everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana.

So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating that the varieties of service should be concentrated for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is pravṛtti, and what is not satisfying Kṛṣṇa, against the... [break]

*Anukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ pratikūlyasya varjanam. This is called surrender. Surrender means that Kṛṣṇa is asking sarva-dharmān parityayja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. What is the surrender means? Surrender means "Kṛṣṇa, I am surrendering unto You. I was acting whimsically, by the dictation of my different senses." Kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, like that. Na kāmādīnāṁ katidha na katidhā pālitā durnideśa. The śāstra says, you should not steal*-an example. But I am stealing. Why? Na kāmādīnāṁ katidha na katidhā pālitā durnideśa. I know I should not steal; *therefore I go to somebody's house very secretly, or push my hand very secretly in one's pocket. I know that I should not do this, but I am forced to do it. Why? I am dictated by my lusty desire. So I am become servant of my six senses. Manaḥ saṣṭhanīndriyāni prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. This is our position. Na manina kulya... Everyone knows. A thief knows if he commits theft he'll be punished, either by the police or by the laws of God. Everyone knows, but he still commits theft. Why? He is dictated by the lusty desires.

*So pravṛtti means we are dictated by our kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, and we should agree to be dictated by Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is intelligent. Pravṛtti, nivṛtti. Our pravṛtti is to abide by the dictation of the senses, and when we learn not to abide by the dictation of the senses but to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, then your life is successful. This teaching, this learning, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not difficult. Everyone can do it. Simply he has to change: instead of being dictated by the senses, one should be dictated by Kṛṣṇa. That requires qualification. Kṛṣṇa is there, in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa is not far away, but you have to search out where is Kṛṣṇa within your heart. That is called yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginaḥ, those who are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa by the yoga process... The yoga means controlling the senses. Without controlling the senses you cannot practice any yoga. Nowadays it has become a fashion, meditation yoga, but that is not bona fide. That is not only (not) bona-fide; *that is farce. Real yoga is controlling the senses and concentrating the mind to the Supreme Person. Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. That is the... And farce yogi is going like that. And Kṛṣṇa says also in the Bhagavad-gītā,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhavān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



He is first class yogi. Who? "Always thinking of Me.



Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare

Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare



*He is first*-class yogi." So we are teaching our students to become the first-class yogi. Not these yogis to reduce fat. No. That is not required. Yogi means who is always seeing Kṛṣṇa within the heart. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is first-class yogi, bhakta-yogī. Twenty-four hours, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: you have to fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa by the process of chanting His glories, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām [Bg. 9.14], not otherwise. Mām, Kṛṣṇa.



*So people do not understand this, what he should do, what he should not do. Pravṛtti, nivṛtti. Because he cannot distinguish, therefore he is asura. Asura*-demons, or atheist. So if you analyze the modern... [break] This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that it is invented..., not invented; it is there in the Vedic literatures. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He has given us this process of realizing Kṛṣṇa and becoming expert in understanding what we should do and what we should not do, pravṛtti nivṛtti. And therefore if we know that we should not do this, we should do this, then we become immediately devatā. And if you do not know what we should do and what we should not do, then we remain asura. It is not that because one is asura, he cannot become a devatā. The asura can become devatā, provided he knows these two things: pravṛtti and nivṛtti.

*So pravṛtti we have got, just like we have got tendency-cent percent person has it at the present moment*-to smoke. This is pravṛtti. But we say don't smoke, nivṛtti. And if we drink, that is pravṛtti. Everyone, even the ant, he is also drunkard. They have scientifically studied, the ants are very much fond of intoxication; therefore they eat sugar. In sugar there is liquor, so the... Loke bhāvāya nisamadhya sevā nityasta yanto. Every living entity has got this tendency, bhāvāya. Bhāvāya means sex life; *amīṣa, meat*-eating; and mada, liquor. Natural tendency. Therefore the country where these things are indulged without any restriction, that is asura, the country of the asura. So especially in the Western countries, and now we have also learned. In India, either Hindus or Musselman, drinking was a sin. Now we have got very easily available liquor. Every door there is shop, and every door there is meat shop. So India, there was time that they were all devatās; *now we are imitating the asuras. On the other hand, the boys and girls from the asuric country, they are becoming the devotee, devatā. So there is no exclusive right for a country to become devatā or demon. A demon can be turned into the devatā and devatā can be turned into demon, provided he does not follow this pravṛtti and nivṛtti, what is pravṛtti*-mārga. Pravṛtti-sambhūtānāṁ nivṛtti tu mahābalam. That is life. "I want to smoke; I have got tendency to smoke," pravṛtti. This is pravṛtti; everyone has got. But if you can stop it, then your life is successful. Nivṛtti.

*Therefore this nivṛtti means tapasya. If I am habituated to smoke, if I am habituated to illicit sex life, if I am habituated to intoxication and gambling, etc., this is my pravṛtti. But if we can stop it by practice, that is called tapasya. And human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddyeta satyam [SB 5.5.1]. Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction: "My dear sons, you practice tapasya." The human life is meant for tapasya. "I have got tendency to do this, but that will not help me, that will degraded me." So tapasya means instead of being degraded, be elevated. This is called tapasya. Tapo divyam. This human life is meant for this purpose, to practice tapasya, or to practice nivṛtti. Then our life is successful. Tapo divyam. Why tapasya, why nivṛtti? Yena śuddhyena sattva. Sattva means here existence is impure. Impure means that you are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], you do not die after the annihilation of this body, but I am subjected to repetition of birth and death, in different species of life. This is my disease. It is not pure condition of life. Pure condition of life as it is stated in Bhagavad*-gītā, yad gatvā na nirvartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama.

mām upetya (tu) kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmanaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*[break] ...Vaikuṇṭhaloka, Kṛṣṇa's loka, then you get your original, eternal sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], live there eternally. Just like in Vṛndāvana they are always with Kṛṣṇa enjoying life. This is nivṛtti-mārga. So there is a life, eternal life, very blissful life, full of knowledge. If you want to go back to that life, back to home, back to Godhead, then you must practice this pravṛtti, nivṛtti-mārga.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this pravṛtti*-mārga, nivṛtti-mārga, both. "You do not do this" or "You do this." "Do this" means rise early in the morning, maṅgala-āratrika. Of course, you must sleep, but not sleep like cats and dogs, animals. Simply sleeping means waste of time. The more you reduce sleeping, then you become perfect. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. All the gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, they conquered over these things. What is these things? Nidrā, sleeping; āhāra, eating; *and vihāra, and sense pleasure. This is called sannyāsa life, reducing sleeping, reducing eating. This is pravṛtti*-mārga. We think "If I can eat voraciously like an elephant, then my life is successful." No. That is not success of life. If you can do without any food, that is successful. That is success. This is called nivṛtti-mārga, but that is not practical; *therefore if we promise that we shall not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, that is tapasya. If you don't go to the restaurant and eat anything nonsense, that is pravṛtti. But if you want to stop that restaurant*-going, then you take Kṛṣṇa prasādam; *kṛṣṇa borā dayā moy kori bāre jihvā joy sva*-prasāda-anna dilo bhāi. Kṛṣṇa is ready, so many nice, palatable dishes; *you take and stop this restaurant*-going. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa does not say "Bring something from the restaurant" or this or that. He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: anything, little leaf, little flower, little water. Kṛṣṇa is not hungry, but Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has come to you, so that you can touch Him, you can dress Him, you can decorate Him, you can offer Him, you can live with Him as servant, as friend, as son, as lover. In so many ways, Kṛṣṇa is giving you chance.

*So the kaniṣṭha*-adhikārī, in the beginning... It is not that kaniṣṭha, beginning, if anyone immediately becomes so advanced. It is not advancement; *it is foolishness. Just like somebody, they declare that "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Why should we go to the temple?" Then if Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, He is not in the temple? Huh? What is this argument? If Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, He is also in the temple. But in the temple I worship directly, and what is the utility? Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. I am not so advanced that I can see everywhere Kṛṣṇa. Who can see Kṛṣṇa everywhere? That is very advanced stage. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. If you become so advanced that you cannot live without Kṛṣṇa for a moment, then Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Where is that training? Where is that advancement? Even if I advise, try to meditate, I meditate upon my wife, upon my children, on my business. This is not the stage of seeing Kṛṣṇa everywhere. That requires training. That requires advanced knowledge. Prema. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. If a devotee cannot live for a moment without seeing Kṛṣṇa, he is visible... A devotee... Not for the neophyte devotee. So there are different stages.

So this is not fact that Kṛṣṇa is within your mind; *therefore you should not got to the temple, you have become so advanced. No. Better... [break] ...śilā*-dhīr. Do not consider that "Here is a stone Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa is everything. Stone is also Kṛṣṇa; simply you have to be qualified how to talk with stone Kṛṣṇa. That is your qualification. You have to qualify yourself; otherwise Kṛṣṇa is stone, Kṛṣṇa is water, Kṛṣṇa is sky, Kṛṣṇa is everything. So this is the philosophy. Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo' nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca: [Bg. 7.4] "I am everything." That's a fact. So why do you say there is stone Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is everything, if you have got the eyes to see, you can see Kṛṣṇa everywhere and everything.

*So this is the beginning. Therefore you require pravṛtti and nivṛtti to understand how you should think, how you should live, how you should eat, how you should sleep. This training is required. Why it is required? Because to get out of this material bondage, where the birth, death, old age and disease is compulsory. If you want to avoid this, because you are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], why don't you think that "If I am eternal, why am I accepting birth, death, old age, and disease?" This is intelligence. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is Vedānta*-sūtra. Now we should enquire how we can get out of this material entanglement.

*So my Guru Mahārāja, in the paramparā system, Kṛṣṇa comes also, that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. This is dharmasya glānir. One does not know what is his duty, aim of life*-everyone. Ninety-nine point nine percent, this is dharmasya glanīr, dharmasya glānir. Tadātmānam sṛjāmy aham: to teach the rascal people to understand what is his duty, what is his aim of life. So not only Kṛṣṇa comes, but also His representatives also come. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He leaves book, He leaves representative, and He comes Himself. In so many ways He is trying to give us the benefit. Asura: we do not take the advantage, and continually suffer, mūḍhā janmani janmani [Bg. 16.20], birth after birth we suffer. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so beneficial that He wants to benefit the whole human society how to stop this process of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. So my Guru Mahārāja also came for this purpose, and we are also trying to follow his footsteps, and we are teaching our disciple to do the same thing. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo vidhuḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So this is not a new movement, or some invented "ism". It is old, at least four, five thousand years. What Kṛṣṇa spoke, the other followers also spoke the same thing, and we are also speaking the same thing. It is up to you to take advantage of it or not.

Thank you very much.

Devotee: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Jaya. (end)





761210DB.HYD

His Divine Grace

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Disappearance Day, Lecture

-

Hyderabad, December 10, 1976



*Prabhupāda: "...simple expression of reverence and love. The disciple, Abhaya Charan Dāsa, was to become His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder-ācārya of International Society, Krishna Consciousness." So whatever I appreciated forty years ago, the same principle is going on. We have no change. What I understood my spiritual master... Practically I met him in 1922, and this poetry was written in 1936. That means fourteen years before writing this poetry, I met my Guru Mahārāja in 1922. At that time I was quite a young man, twenty*-five years old only, and I was posted in a very responsible position and as the office manager of Dr. Bose's laboratory. And I was fond of in those days, of Gandhi's movement. In 1922 I joined Gandhi's movement, and I gave up my educational career because one of the Gandhi's program was to boycott the universities. That's a very long story. And many students gave up their educational career and joined this Gandhi's movement, and I was one of them.



So Dr. Bose, Kartik Chandra Bose, he's a very important man. At that time he was managing director of Bengal Chemical Company. Now there is a street in the central Calcutta, Dr. Kartik Bose Street. So he was very important man, and he was our family physician and my father's very intimate friend. So when I gave up my education and I was joining Gandhi's movement, at that time Dr. Kartik Chandra Bose asked me to join him. So with the permission of my father, I joined. So I was fond of, at that time, this Gandhi's noncooperation movement. And then, when I joined Dr. Bose's laboratory, of course, I was dressed in khādar. So Dr. Bose liked that dress, khādar dress. He told me one day that "Out of your whole Gandhi's movement, I like this khādar only." Dr. Bose said. And why? "No, because this will give impetus to industry. This hand spinning will gradually give impetus to India." Actually that happened. He was himself an industrialist. Actually in India the chemical industry was given birth by Dr. Kartik Chandra Bose. He was very important man. He started this Bengal Chemical.

So 1922 I met my Guru Mahārāja through the exigency of my intimate friend, Mr. Narendranath Mullik. And I would not go. He told me information, "There is a nice sādhu. Let us go and see." I did not like very much these sādhus in those days, national spirit. So I said, "I have seen many sādhus. They come at my father's care. I was not very much pleased with their behavior." So he dragged me forcibly: "No, I have heard this person is very exalted." So I went. And his first opening version was that "You are educated young men. Why don't you preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gospel in the Western countries?" I did not know. So this was his blessing in the first meeting. I did not know, but because we belonged to a Vaiṣṇava family we were very much worshiper of Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda, our family Deity. So I was very much pleased that "Here is a personality who is going to preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gospel." I was very much pleased.

So anyway, from 1922 to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Mahārāja. Then officially I was initiated in 1933 because in 1923 I left Calcutta. I started my business at Allahabad. So I was always thinking of my Guru Mahārāja, that "I met a very nice sādhu." Although I was doing business, I never forgot him. Then, in 1928, these Gauḍīya Maṭha people came to Allahabad during Kumbhamelā. As the Kumbhamelā is going to be held this year, a similar big Kumbhamelā was held in 1928. In those days they came to open their branch in Allahabad, and somebody recommended that "You go to..." At that time I was running on my big pharmacy and I was very well known man in Allahabad as the proprietor of the pharmacy. So somebody recommended them that "You go to Abhaya Babu. He is a very religious man. He'll help you." So when they entered my shop I was very much pleased that "These men I met in 1922, and now they have come." In this way I became reconnected. And in 1933 I was officially initiated, and my only qualification was when I was introduced to my Guru Mahārāja for initiation, so Guru Mahārāja immediately said, "Yes, I shall initiate this boy. He is very nice. He hears me very patiently. He does not go away." So that was my qualification. The high standard of philosophy which he was speaking at that time, practically I could not follow what was, he was speaking, but still, I liked to hear him. That was my hobby. Whenever... I was asking that "When Guru Mahārāja will speak?" So he took it very seriously.

*And then, in 1936*-it's a long history-during this Vyāsa-pūjā day, this Vyāsa-pūjā day, whatever I studied about our relationship with my Guru Mahārāja, I expressed in this poetry, and since that day my Godbrothers used to call me "poet." And Guru Mahārāja also very much appreciated this poetry. Now somehow or other you have found it. (laughs) I thought the poetry is lost, but I do not know how it was found out by some of our disciples. I think it was found out in London museum or somewhere else by Guru dāsa. They had a stock of Harmonist, and from the Harmonist, my Guru Mahārāja's paper, this poetry was found. Otherwise I thought it was lost. So anyway, this poetry is "Adore, adore ye all the happy day, blessed than heaven, sweeter than May." So I heard that the month of May is very pleasing in the Western countries, so I compared the happiness of this day with the May Day. They call May Day?

Devotees: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. "When he appeared at Purī, the holy place, my lord and master, His Divine Grace." So Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura appeared as the son of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, his fourth son. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he was family man. He has several children, sons and daughters. So Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, known in his previous life as Bimala Prasāda Datta, son of Kedaranath Datta... His father, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, his name was. He was magistrate and he was manager also, the managing board of Jagannātha Purī. The system is, the local magistrate becomes the official manager of the managing board of Jagannātha Purī. So at that time he was situated in Jagannātha Purī, and Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura appeared at Purī. And the Ratha*-yātrā, the Ratha-yātrā ceremony takes place, and sometimes the big ratha stops at interval. So the house in which Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura appeared, in front of that house the ratha stopped. So his mother took the advantage and... Because Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was magistrate, so the son, the little baby, was brought before the ratha, and the pūjārīs allowed him to bring the child before the Deity, and the child was placed before the Deity and a garland was offered by Jagannātha. So that was the first sign of his becoming the ācārya. In this way there are many incidences.



*So therefore his birthplace is mentioned, "the holy place, my lord and master, His Divine Grace." "O my master, the evangelic angel, give us thy light, light up thy candle. Struggle for existence, a human race, the only hope, His Divine Grace." So actually we are in a very precarious condition, the modern civilization, I mean to say, manipulated by the Western people. It is a soul*-killing civilization, this civilization. By nature the chance is given after many, many evolutionary process. Jalajā nava lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati. The evolutionary theory is there in the Padma Purāṇa. It is not Darwin's theory. Darwin stolen it from Padma Purāṇa, and he presented in a distorted way of his own imagination. Otherwise the Darwin's theory is not the original. The theory... It is not theory-fact. Jīva-jātiṣu. It is wandering within the cycle of jīva-jāti, different species of life. Tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. This is Vedic knowledge, this evolutionary process. It is not Darwin's theory.

*So by that process, lower animals and then the chronological order is there... First of all aquatics, jalajāḥ. Jalajāḥ means aquatic. Then sthāvarāḥ, trees, plants. Then flies, then birds, then beasts, then human being. In this way, bahu sambhavante, after many, many millions of years we get this opportunity of human life to realize God. And this civilization is denying, refusing the opportunity to the human society to understand God*-such a soul-killing civilization. It is a fact. They are denying "What is God? There is no God. Everything is science," although they cannot explain science. They cannot do anything, simply talking like nonsense. Last night some girls came, so they are students of botany. So I asked them, "Can you manufacture a seed which can give birth to a big banyan tree?" "No, sir, it is not possible." Then what kind of botany you are studying? Actually what is their science? They talk simply something which is going on in the middle portion. Where is the beginning and where is the end of knowledge, that they do not know. They are theorizing only in the middle. They do not know janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], where is the beginning of this science. That is... Beginning is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. He is the beginning. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10]. That seed, you scientist, you cannot manufacture. What chemicals are there that if you put in the earth and pour some water and it will grow a big tree? These scientists, they cannot explain what is the chemical composition is there. But there is. So that is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa.

*So this knowledge means to understand the original source. That is philosophy, find out the original source. That is knowledge. So the vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. Actually the knowledge terminates when you understand Kṛṣṇa. He is the source of everything. So there is a "struggle for existence, a human race, the only hope, His Divine Grace." So we got this information from His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, and that knowledge is still going on. You are receiving through his servant. And in future the same knowledge will go to your students. This is called paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā prāp... It is not that you have become a student and you'll remain student. No. One day you shall become also guru and make more students, more students, more. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, not that perpetually... Yes, one should remain perpetually a student, but he has to act as guru. That is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is not that because I am acting as guru, I am no longer student. No, I am still student. Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us this instruction that we shall always remain a foolish student before our Guru Mahārāja. That is the Vedic culture. I may be very big man, but still, I should remain a foolish student to my guru. That is the qualification. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāśana [Cc. Ādi 7.71]. We should be always prepared to be controlled by the guru. That is very good qualification. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. Āra nā kariha mane āśā **. So we should become always a very obedient student to our guru. That is the qualification. That is the spiritual qualification.

So recently... I am very pleased to say that our Harikeśa, I ordered him to go immediately to Poland, and he thought that he was being punished. That was... No. I was thinking that "Here is a very very intelligent boy. If he is given chance to preach he'll come out very successful." So I see the glimpses that he has got now post. He's a very good organizer. That's a chance. At that time he might have thought that I was separating him. No. My good will was there that he should be given chance for better opportunity. So I am very much happy that he is doing there very nice. So this should be the attitude. My Guru Mahārāja wanted me to preach in the Western countries, although I was at that time a ordinary manager in a chemical firm. I never thought, but I took it seriously. So from that 1922, in 1965 it was fruitful. How many years?

*Devotee: Forty*-three.



*Prabhupāda: Forty*-three years. So it is better late than never. Yes. So he desired me. I thought, "Now I am a family man. Let me adjust things." I would have accepted immediately, but I was not so intelligent at that time. I thought "My responsibility to family is there. Let me wait." But still, Guru Mahārāja was so kind to me that when I was gṛhastha, I was seeing him in dreaming and I was... He asked me, "You come with me." So I was going, and after that, I was thinking, "Oh, I will have to take sannyāsa and go with him?" So it appeared to me very horrible. I was not very much inclined to take sannyāsa, but Guru Mahārāja is so kind that he ultimately forced me to take sannyāsa and do this work. So it is all his kindness. So this is the memory of his kindness.



So forty years ago I remember the same thing as it is in 1922, and still the same thing is going on. There is nothing new. We have nothing to do, new. Simply let us present as it is; *it will be successful. There is no... You see. The spirit of my writing is the same. "Misled we are, all going astray." This soul*-killing civilization is misleading us. We must know this, this very misleading civilization. Our real aim of life is to understand our spiritual identification and search out our relationship with God, Kṛṣṇa. That is our real business. But this modern civilization is misleading us in different ways. So I wrote this, that "Misled we are, all going astray. Save us, lord, our fervent pray. Wonder thy ways to turn our face, adore they feet, Your Divine Grace." So this portion he very much appreciated.

*So we have to find out ways how to turn the current. The current is sense enjoyment. Material life means the current is sense enjoyment, and this current has to be turned*-sense enjoyment of Kṛṣṇa. Sense enjoyment is there, but the material civilization, the misled civilization, is that the sense gratification is taken personal. When this sense gratification will be turned towards Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. Just like gopīs. Apparently it appears that gopīs, they were attracted by young boy, Kṛṣṇa, and for their sense gratification they made friendship with Kṛṣṇa. No. That is not the fact. The fact is that gopīs used to dress themselves nicely because by seeing them, Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied, not that for their sense gratification. Generally a girl dresses also to attract the attention of the boy. So the same thing is there but it is Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification, not the gopīs'. The gopīs did not want anything. But Kṛṣṇa will be satisifed. That is the difference between lust and love. Love is there, only possible, when it is diverted towards Kṛṣṇa. That is love. And beyond that... Not beyond that... Below that, everything is lust. So we should always remember this. The senses are not stopped, but when the gratification of the senses is directed towards Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti, or love. And when the sense gratification is directed towards personal self, that is lust. This is difference between lust and love.

*So Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura knew this art, how to turn our activities for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore I... "Wonder thy ways to turn our face, adore they feet, Your Divine Grace. Forgotten Kṛṣṇa, we fallen souls." Why we are fallen? Because we have forgotten. Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa is eternal. Unless it was eternal, how you Western peoples could be devotee of Kṛṣṇa? Artificially you cannot be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. The relationship is there eternally. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. By the process it is now awakened. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. It is awakened. Love between young man and young woman, it is not artificial. It is there. But by certain circumstantially, environment, the love becomes manifest. Similarly, our love for Kṛṣṇa, relationship with Kṛṣṇa, is eternal. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. But we have to create such situation*-that eternal relation should be awakened. That is the art. That is wanted.

*So "Forgotten Kṛṣṇa, we fallen souls, pay most heavy the illusion's toll." Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa we are paying heavy, heavy toll, tax, taxation. What is that taxation? The taxation is nivartante mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. This human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa, but instead of understanding Kṛṣṇa, we are understanding the so-called material science for sense gratification. This is our position. The energy which was given by nature to understand Kṛṣṇa, that is being utilized how to manufacture something for sense gratification. This is going on. This is māyā, illusion. Therefore it is, "Pay most heavy the illusion's toll." Toll tax. That we are paying because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa; *therefore now we have manufactured the nuclear weapon-Russia, America*-and you will have to pay heavily. They are already paying heavily. The armament preparation is going on. More than fifty percent of the income of the state are now being spent for this arm..., heavily. Instead of other purposes, it is being spent for military strength, every state. So that heavy toll we are paying. And when there is war there is no limit how much we are spending for this devastation. So why? Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. This is a fact.

*So these people they have made the United Nation, unnecessarily fighting like dogs. So this will not solve the problems. The problem will be solved if they pass a resolution that the whole world, not only this world... Kṛṣṇa says, sarvaloka maheśvaram. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, so why not accept? Actually He is the proprietor. Who has created this planet? We have created or father created? No. Kṛṣṇa has created, but we are claiming, "This portion is American, this portion is Indian, this portion is Pakistani." Unnecessary. What is the value of this claim? We may claim it for fifty or sixty or a hundred years, and after that, one kick: "Get out." Where is your claim? But they do not understand this philosophy. They are fighting. That's all, that "This is mine. This is my land. This is my land." They do not know. Kṛṣṇa said tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. "You are American today. So tomorrow, even within America if you become an American cow or American animal, nobody will care for you. Nobody will care for your politics." But this art they do not know. This science they do not know. They are under illusion. They are thinking that "I shall continue to remain American, so let waste my time for American interest," so*-called interest. There cannot be any interest. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everything is being done by nature, and we are simply falsely thinking, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate. This illusion is going on. "Forgotten Kṛṣṇa, we fallen souls, pay most heavy the illusion's toll." We are paying, paying. "Darkness around, all untrace. The only hope, Your Divine Grace." This message. Simply we are in darkness. So we shall discuss later on again. Now just... What is the time now? Hm?

Devotees: Quarter to nine.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So we shall discuss again. So the same thing, it is chalked out by Kṛṣṇa, and by paramparā system we have understood this philosophy. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So keep this paramparā system. This Vyāsa*-pūjā is paramparā system. Vyāsa-pūjā means to accept this paramparā system. Vyāsa. Guru is the representative of Vyāsadeva because he does not change anything. What Vyāsa-pūjā... What Vyāsadeva said, your guru will also say the same thing. Not that "So many hundreds of thousands of years have passed away. Therefore I will give you a new formula." No. There is no new formula. The same Vyāsa-pūjā, the same philosophy. Simply we have to accept it. Then our life will be successful. Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya! (end)





700218VA.LA

*Varāha*-dvadaśī,

Lord Varāha's Appearance Day Lecture

*Dasāvatāra*-stotra Purport

-

Los Angeles, February 18, 1970



*Prabhupāda: ...lifted the world when it was submerged within the water of Garbhodaka Ocean. The universe which we are seeing, it is only half. The other half is filled with water, and in that water is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu lying. So one demon, Hiraṇyākṣa, he pushed this earthly planet within that water, and Lord Kṛṣṇa delivered this earthly planet from water in the shape of a boar. So that auspicious day is today, Varāha*-dvadaśī. This is called Varāha-dvadasi. So on this day it is better to sing, to glorify the different incarnations of Lord within this universe. The first incarnation is the fish form.



*So these prayers were offered by Jayadeva Gosvāmī. One Vaiṣṇava poet advented about seven hundred years before Lord Caitanya's appearance. He was a great devotee, and his specific poetry, Gīta*-govinda, is very famous all over the world. Gīta-govinda. Gīta-govinda is the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa playing on flute about Rādhārāṇī. That is the subject matter of Gīta-govinda. The same poet, Jayadeva Gosvāmī, has offered this prayer, pralaya-payodhi-jale-dhṛtavān asi vedam **. He says, "My dear Lord, when there was devastation within this universe, everything was filled with water. At that time You saved the Vedas, stacked in a boat. And you held the boat from being drowned in the water, in the shape of a big fish." This fish first of all was caught in the waterpot just like a small fish. Then it enlarged, and the fish was kept in a bigger water reservoir. In this way the fish was increasing. Then the fish informed that "Devastation is coming. You just save all the Vedas on a boat, and I shall protect it." So Jayadeva Gosvāmī is offering prayer, "My Lord, You saved the Vedas when there was devastation in the shape of a fish."

*The next is Kūrmāvatāra. There was churning of the ocean. One side all the demigods and one side all the demons. And the churning rod was a great hill called Mandara*-pārvata. And the resting place was on the back of the Lord appeared as a tortoise. So he's offering his prayer that "You appeared as a tortoise just to become the resting place. And this happened because You were feeling some itching sensation on Your back. So You accepted this big rod, Mandara Hill, to itch, as the itching instrument."

*Then the next incarnation is this Varāha, boar or hog. He delivered this earthly planet by the tusk, and He kept the whole world on His tusk. We can just imagine how big He appeared. And the world at that time appeared just like the moon disc with some marks on it. So keśava dhṛta*-varāha-śarīra. He says, "My dear Lord, You have appeared as the great boar. So let me offer my respectful obeisances unto You."

*The fourth incarnation is Nṛsiṁhadeva. Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared to save Prahlāda Mahārāja, who was five*-years-old boy and he was being tortured by his atheistic father. So He appeared from the pillar of the palace as a half-man, half-lion. Because this Hiraṇyakaśipu took benediction from Brahmā that he'll not be killed by any man or any animal. So the Lord appeared neither man nor animal. This is the difference between the Lord's intelligence and our intelligence. We are thinking that we can cheat the Lord by our intelligence, but the Lord is more intelligent than us. This Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to cheat Brahmā by indirect definition. First of all he wanted to become immortal. Brahmā said, "That is not possible because even I am not immortal. Nobody in this material world is immortal. That is not possible." So Hiraṇyakaśipu, the demon... The demons are very intelligent. He thought that "Round about way I shall become immortal." He prayed to Brahmā that "Please give me the benediction that I shall not be killed by any man or any animal." Brahmā said, "Yes, that is all right." "I shall not be killed in the sky, on the water or on land." Brahmā said, "Oh yes." "I shall not be killed by any man-made weapons." "That's all right." In this way he utilized his intelligence in so many ways just to come to the conclusion of being immortal. But the Lord is so cunning that He kept intact all the benediction given by Brahmā, still he was killed. He said that "I'll not be killed either during daytime or night." Brahmā said "Yes." So he was killed just in the evening, just in the junction of day and night. You cannot say it is day or night. He took the benediction that "I shall not be killed in the sky, on the water, on the land." So he was killed on His lap. He took the benediction that "I shall not be killed by any man-made or any God-made weapons." That was given, "All right." So he was killed by the nails. In this way, all the benedictions were kept intact, still he was killed. Similarly, we may make plan, we may make very advancement in scientific knowledge, but the killing process of nature will be there. Nobody can escape. By our intelligence we cannot escape. The four principles of material existence means birth, death, old age and disease. We can manufacture many medicines, many weapons, many means, many methods, but you cannot escape these four principles of material existence, however great you may be. That was proved by Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu was one of the stalwart materialistic and he wanted to live forever, enjoy, but he also could not live. Everything was finished.

Then next incarnation is Vāmana, the dwarf. Lord Vāmana appeared before Bali Mahārāja. That was also another cheating. Bali Mahārāja conquered all the universal planets and the demigods were too much disturbed. So Vāmana Mahārāja... Vāmanadeva went to Bali Mahārāja that "You give me some alms. I am brāhmaṇa. I have come to beg from you." So Bali Mahārāja said, "Yes. I'll give You." So He wanted three feet land only. So by one feet the whole universe was covered, upside, and another feet the other half was covered. Then the third feet Bali Mahārāja said, "Yes, now there is no place. Please keep Your feet on my head. Still my head is there." So Vāmanadeva was very much pleased by the sacrifice of Bali Mahārāja. He gave up everything for the Lord. So he is one of the great authorities. Out of the twelve authorities, Bali Mahārāja is one of the authorities because he sacrificed everything to satisfy the Lord.

*And next is Paraśurāma. Paraśurāma, twenty-one times He made a massacre propaganda for killing all the kṣatriya kings. The kṣatriya kings were very much dishonest at that time, so he killed them for twenty*-one times. They fled from here and there. And from the history of Mahābhārata it is understood, at that time some of the kṣatriyas fled and took shelter in the European side. And the Indo-European stock is from those kṣatriyas. That is history, inform..., historical information from Mahābhārata.

Then next incarnation is Lord Rāma. So He fought with Rāvaṇa who had ten heads. So ... And the next incarnation is Balarāma. Balarāma is the elder brother of Kṛṣṇa. He is incarnation of Saṅkarṣaṇa, next expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So He was very white in complexion, and He was wearing blue garments, and with His plow He was, sometimes He was angry with Yamunā River, and He tried to dry up the Yamunā River. That description is given here. And Yamunā, out of His fear, she agreed to the proposal of Balarāma. And the next incarnation is Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha, He decried the Vedic principles. Therefore He is calculated as atheist. Anyone who does not agree with the Vedic principles, he is considered as atheist. Just like one who does not believe in the Bible, they are called heathens, similarly, those who do not accept the Vedic principles, they are called atheists. So Lord Buddha although incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He said that "I do not believe in *Vedas*." What was the reason? The reason was to save the poor animals. At that time people were sacrificing the poor animals under the plea of Vedic sacrifice. So demonic persons, they want to do something under the protection of authority. Just like a big lawyer takes the protection of the lawbook and he makes the law unlawful. Similarly, the demons are so intelligent that they take advantage of scriptural injunction and do all nonsense. So these things were going on. In the name of Vedic sacrifice, they were killing animals like anything. So Lord became very much compassionate these poor animals, and He appeared as Lord Buddha, and His philosophy was nonviolence. His philosophy was atheist because He said that "There is no God. This combination of matter is a manifestation, and you dismantle the material elements, there will be void and there will be no sense of pleasure and pain. That is the nirvāṇa, ultimate goal of life." That was His philosophy. But actually His mission was to stop animal killing, to stop the men from so much sinful activities. So Lord Buddha is also prayed herewith. So people will be surprised that Lord Buddha is designated as atheist and still the Vaiṣṇavas, they are offering their respectful prayers to Lord Viṣṇu (Buddha). Why? Because the Vaiṣṇava knows how the God is acting for His different purposes. Others, they do not know.

*The next avatār incarnation is Kalki. That is yet to take place. Kalki avatāra will appear at the end of this age, Kali*-yuga. The age of Kali-yuga, duration of this age is still to be, I mean to say, fulfilled in 400,000's of years. So at the end of Kali, that means at the last stage, after about 400,000's of years, the incarnation of Kali will appear. That is predicted in the Vedic literatures, as Lord Buddha's appearance was also predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was compiled five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about 2,500 years ago. Therefore about Lord Buddha's appearance it is predicted that at the beginning of Kali-yuga Lord Buddha will appear. There was prediction, and that has actually come to be true. Similarly, there is prediction about Kalki avatāra, and that will also come to be true. So at that time Lord Kalki's business will be simply to kill. No instruction. Just like... In Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa gave instruction in the shape of Bhagavad-gītā. But at the end of Kali-yuga, people will be so much degraded that there is no more possibility to give any instruction. They will not be able to understand even. At that time the only weapon will be to kill them. And one who is killed by the Lord, he also gets salvation. That is God's all-merciful quality. Either He protects or He kills, the result is the same. So that will be the last stage of this Kali-yuga, and after that, again Satya-yuga, the age of religiosity, will begin. These are the statements of Vedic literature. (end)



770131VA.BHU

*Varāha*-dvadaśī,

Lord Varāha's Appearance Day Lecture

-

Bhuvaneśvara, January 31, 1977



*Prabhupāda: Today, Varāha*-dvādaśī, appearance of Kṛṣṇa's taking the incarnation of Varāha, boar... Keśava dhṛta-śūkara-rūpa jaya jagadīśa hare.



*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, ādi*-puruṣa, the original person, He is taking various forms. Rāmādi-murtiṣu specially. Three Rāma: Paraśurāma, Balarāma, and Daśarathi Rāma. So this Rāma means enjoyment. So Kṛṣṇa's enjoyment... It does not mean, Kṛṣṇa has appeared as the boar; *it does not mean He is suffering. Everything is ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis [Bs. 5.37]. Sometimes a big man becomes a horse. It is... There is a very nice interesting story that the big Prime Minister Gladstone, English, English Prime Minister, Gladstone?



Devotee: Yeah.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So somebody came to see him for an interview. So the servant informed the visitor that "The Prime Minister is now busy, you have to wait." So he was waiting. He was big man. So one hour passed. So he became inquisitive, so with little opening of the door, he wanted to see the how this man is engaged. I am waiting for one hour . So he saw that the Prime Minister has become a horse, taking his grandchild on the back, and he's playing like a horse. And the important visitor is waiting for one hour. So this is enjoyment. The Prime Minister is not the horse, but he is enjoying taking his grandchild on the back and he was playing like a horse and the grandchild was, "Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut!" This was his engagement. So similarly, because he has become the horse of his grandchild, he is not horse, he is enjoying. That is enjoyment. Similarly when keśava dhṛta-śūkara*-rūpa or kesava dhṛta-varāha-rūpa does not mean that He is varāha, or He is crocodile, or He is something like... No. He's everything. But that is not by karma. When we become crocodile, that is karma, punishment. We are now human being. It may be next life I become a crocodile according to karma, be forced by the laws of nature. Just like in Honolulu, Hawaii, we see so many young boys, they are enjoying, they are surfing in the middle of the ocean, struggling. So our karma, if you are practiced to that way, then at the time of death I shall think of just, in the middle ocean, swimming and struggling, then Kṛṣṇa will give opportunity to become a aquatic. Very easily we can remain within the water. That is the laws of nature. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6].



*So our taking the shape of crocodile or boar or something animal that is karma. But that is a horse, real horse is karma but the Gladstone's becoming horse, that is not karma, that is enjoyment. We should understand like that, that when keśava dhṛta*-kūrma-śarīra and varāha-śarīra, He's not forced by karma. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti [Bg. 4.14]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, na me karma-phale spṛhā. He is self-sufficient. So, everything His enjoyment. We are also seeking enjoyment because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Kṛṣṇa or His part and parcel, the same quality. Kṛṣṇa is seeking enjoyment, and we are also seeking enjoyment, but we can enjoy together in the spiritual world without any hamper, without any impediment.

*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



When we dance with Kṛṣṇa in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, both of us are enjoying. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying; we are also enjoying. But if we want to enjoy independent of Kṛṣṇa or to imitate Kṛṣṇa or to become Kṛṣṇa, then it is māyā. Then it is māyā. This material world means the same enjoying spirit is there within me, but if I want to become Kṛṣṇa or enjoy independently, then it is māyā. So therefore we should enjoy with Kṛṣṇa. That is the aim of... The same thing is there.



*So Kṛṣṇa comes therefore, personally appears and exhibits His enjoying love in Vṛndāvana. He brings His friends, His girl*-friends, boy-friends, everything, His father, His mother, and shows that "The enjoyment which you are seeking, that is there in the spiritual world with Me. See how I am enjoying." Just so that we may have our brain cleared that if we enjoy with Kṛṣṇa, we can enjoy the dance, the paternal love, the conjugal love, the friendly playing with boys, with animals, who is in the garden, in the forest, in the water-same thing is there. Everything is there, all the sporting, but spiritual. So this is Kṛṣṇa's līlā. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis [Bs. 5.37]. So we are seeking pleasure within this material world. That is imitation. That is not real enjoyment. But the basic principle of enjoyment is there. Here there is imitation enjoyment, love between young boy young girl. So wherefrom it comes? It is there in Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise how it can come? It is not possible. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This loving exchange between young boy, young girl is there. Kṛṣṇa is also enjoying there. The gopīs, the young girls, Kṛṣṇa is young... The exchange of love between father and son, mother and son; the exchange of love between friend and friend, the exchange of love between animal and man...

*We, just like we keep so many animals, Kṛṣṇa is also enjoying with the calves. Sometimes with other animal also. Same thing is there. It is simply imitation here. Otherwise, everything is there in the spiritual world. We are mistaking, here, karma*-phala-vadya (?). But here is no inebrieties, in the spiritual world. Here it is full of inebrieties. You'll see that Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with the gopīs but there is no inebriety. There is no pregnancy, there is no abortion. That is the beauty. And the material world the love turns into lusty desires and it entails so many difficulties. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham [SB 7.9.45]. Here sex life means entailed with so many sufferings. But there is no sex life in the spiritual world but the pleasure is there. That is the difference between material and spiritual. Therefore there is restriction. Just like sex life is there, but a tuberculosis patient, if he enjoys sex life, he'll die very soon. Without sex life he could live for some years. Everyone will die. So for tuberculosis patient sex life is strictly prohibited. So when there is prohibition... Just like in the material world there is prohibition, "No sex life," because we are patient here, tuberculosis patient. If we enjoy sex life then we'll die. Die means... We are already dead because we have to accept this dead body. This body is dead. But so long I am within this body, simply it is moving. Just like motor car. Motor car is a lump of matter, but when the driver is acting, it is moving. Similarly this body... By māyā we are thinking that this body is living. It is not living. It is dead. From the very beginning it is dead. And when the soul will go away, it will appear its real identity-dead. Otherwise it is dead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You are lamenting on this body? Oh, you are such a rascal." Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Those who are learned, they do not care for this body, either dead or alive. It is dead matter. So why should you lament for the dead matter?

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



This is spiritual life. When we are not at all concerned with this body, material body, that is the beginning of spiritual life. And so long we are interested with the dead lump of matter without any information of the spirit soul within it, that is material life. This is the difference between material life and spiritual life.



*One who is in ignorance, without any knowledge of the spirit soul and identifying with this body and trying to enjoy life, he is implicated. Implicated. Life after life we change and enjoy in different ways. What (is) the enjoyment? The enjoyment is eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So either you become one little insect or you become Brahmā, the same enjoyment in different forms. Therefore punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], repeating the same process-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. But there is a life eternal which is not this eating-sleeping but another enjoyment, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. We can get it. So therefore in this life we should understand, we should be little sober, that this is our diseased condition. I am eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Why I am put into this condition of birth, death, old age, and disease. This is my disease. This is not healthy condition. So one who is sober, dhīra, he understands that "This is my tuberculosis disease state." We should restrict all the so-called material happiness and prepare for the spiritual life, eternal life That is a human consciousness. Otherwise you are in darkness, mūḍha. Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama. Life is lost. So Kṛṣṇa has so many līlās, activities. Kṛṣṇa is not different from His activities, He is absolute. So these are the occasions we can hear about His activities. We are benefited. Therefore He plays sometimes as mīna-śarīra, as varāha-śarīra, as kūrma-śarīra. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu-kalā niyamena. There are hundreds and thousands of incarnations. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Just like you cannot count the waves of the river, it is going on continually. Similarly, the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa is going on eternally, so many. If you take the opportunity of hearing-śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ visnoḥ [SB 7.5.23]-about Viṣṇu's līlā activities... And if you simply stick to the nirakāra Brahman, what we shall hear? Therefore they fall down, these Māyāvādīs who simply take seriously the impersonal feature of Kṛṣṇa, because there is no līlā. "Brahman brahman ahaṁ brahman brahman," then how long it will go on? It will be hackneyed. But when we take to Kṛṣṇa's personal activities, then are newer, newer, newer, and multi and many... Then we get the opportunity of hearing Kṛṣṇa. Then you stick. Otherwise, if I simply become understood about the Brahman feature, it will be hackneyed, we want seek ānanda, pleasure. So in the impersonal feature there is no pleasure. Just like in the sky, even if you take a very nice airplane, and simply fly in the sky, you'll be very much displeased. That is our practical experience. If you go in the sea and for months together remain in the sea, you'll be very much sick. We want pleasure. We want pleasure, varieties. That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. He also discover..., varieties of pleasure, and if we join with Him, we also enjoy the varieties of pleasure eternally in the spiritual world. That is success of life.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda (end)





690131PU.LA

Lord Nityānanda Prabhu's Āvirbhāva Appearance Day

*Nitāi*-Pada-Kamala Purport

-

Los Angeles, January 31, 1969



Prabhupāda: (sings)



*nitāi*-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala,

je chāyāy jagata jurāy

*heno nitāi bine bhāi, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pāite nāi,

dṛḍha kori' dharo nitāir pāy



se sambandha nāhi jā'r, bṛthā janma gelo tā'r,

sei paśu boro durācār

*nitāi nā bolilo mukhe, majilo saṁsāra*-sukhe,

*vidyā*-kule ki koribe tār



*ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi*-pada pāsariyā,

asatyere satya kori māni

*nitāiyer koruṇā habe, braje rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pābe,

*dharo nitāi*-caraṇa du'khāni



nitāiyer caraṇa satya, tāṅhāra sevaka nitya,

*nitāi*-pada sadā koro āśā

narotamma boro dukhī, nitāi more koro sukhī,

*rākho rāṅgā*-caraṇera pāśa



*Nitāi*-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala, je chāyāy jagata jurāy. This is a song by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a great ācārya of the Gauḍīya-vaiṣṇava-sampradāya. He has written many songs about the Vaiṣṇava philosophy, and they are approved as completely corresponding with Vedic instructions. So here Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is singing that "The whole world is suffering under the blazing fire of material existence. Therefore, if one takes the shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda...," whose birthday is today, 31st, January, 1969. So we should relish this instruction of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura that in order to get relief from the pangs of blazing fire of this material existence, one should take shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda because it is as cooling as the moon rays combined together of millions of moons. That means one will immediately find peaceful atmosphere. Just like a man works whole day and if he comes under the moonshine he feels relief.



Similarly, any materialistic man who comes under the shelter of Lord Nityānanda will immediately feel that relief. Then he says,

*nitāi*-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala,

je chāyāy jagata jurāy,

*heno nitāi bine bhai, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pāite nāi,

*dharo nitāi*-caraṇa du'khani



He says that "If you are anxious to go back to home, back to Godhead, and become associate with Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, then the best policy is to take shelter of Nityānanda." Then he says, se sambandha nāhi jā'r, bṛthā janma gelo tā'r: "One who has not been able to contact Nityānanda, then one should think of himself that he has simply spoiled his valuable life." Bṛthā janma gelo, bṛthā means for nothing, and janma means life. Gelo tā'r, spoiled. Because he has not made connection with Nityānanda. The Nityānanda, very name, suggests... Nitya means eternal. Ānanda means pleasure. Material pleasure is not eternal. That is the distinction. Therefore those who are intelligent, they are not interested with this flickering pleasure of material world. Every one of us, as living entity, we are searching after pleasure. But the pleasure which we are seeking, that is flickering, temporary. That is not pleasure. Real pleasure is nityānanda, eternal pleasure. So anyone who has no contact with Nityānanda, it is to be understood that his life is spoiled.



se sambandha nāhi jā'r, bṛthā janma gelo tā'r,

sei paśu boro durācār



*Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura uses here very harsh word. He says that such human being is an animal, an uncontrollable animal. As there are some animals that cannot be tamed, so anyone who has not contacted Nityānanda, he should be considered as an untamed animal. Sei paśu boro durācār. Why? Because nitāi nā bolilo mukhe: "He never uttered the holy name of Nityānanda." And majilo saṁsāra-sukhe, "and become merged into this material happiness." Vidyā-kule ki koribe tār. "That nonsense does not know that what will his education and family and tradition and nationality will help him?" These things cannot help him. These are all temporary things. Simply, if we want eternal pleasure, we must contact Nityānanda. Vidyā-kule ki koribe tār. Vidyā means education, and kula means family, nationality. So we may have a very nice family connection or we may have very nice national prestige, but after ending this body, these things will not help me. I'll carry my work with me, and according to that work, I shall have to accept by force another type of body. It may be something other than human body. So these things cannot protect us or give us the real pleasure. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura advises that vidyā-kule ki koribe tār. Then he says, ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā. "Being maddened after false prestige and identification..." False identification with the body and prestige of bodily relationship, it is called ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā. One is mad after this false prestige. Ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pāsariyā. Due to this false prestige we are thinking, "Oh, what is Nityānanda? What can He do for me? I don't care." So these are the signs of false prestige. Ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pāsa..., asatyere satya kori māni. The result is that I am accepting something which is false. For example, I am accepting this body. This body, I am not this body. Therefore, with false identification I am becoming entangled more and more. So one who is puffed up with this false prestige, ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pā..., asatyere satya kori māni, he accepts something wrong as right. Then he says, nitāiyer koruṇā habe, braje rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pābe. If you are actually serious about going back to home, back to Godhead, then please seek after the mercy of Nityānanda. Ahaṅkāre...



*nitāiyer koruṇā habe, braja rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pābe,

*dharo nitāi*-caraṇa du'khāni



"Please catch up the lotus feet of Nityānanda." Then he says, nitāiyer caraṇa satya. One may think that as we catch hold of so many shelter, but in this material world later on they prove false, similarly, suppose we catch hold of the lotus feet of Nityānanda; it may also prove false. But Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura assures that nitāiyer caraṇa satya: "It is not false. Because Nityānanda is eternal, His lotus feet is also eternal." Tāṅhāra sevaka nitya. And anyone who takes to the service of Nityānanda, they also become eternal. Without being eternal, nobody can serve the eternal. That is the Vedic injunction. Without becoming Brahman, one cannot approach the Supreme Brahman. Just like without being fire, nobody can enter into the fire. Without being water, nobody can enter into the water. Similarly, without being fully spiritualized, nobody can enter into the spiritual kingdom. So nitāiyer caraṇa satya. If you catch nitāiyer, the lotus feet of Nityānanda, then you become immediately spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you become electrified. That is natural. Similarly, Nityānanda is eternal happiness, if you touch Nityānanda some way or other, then you become also eternally happy. Tāṅhāra sevaka nitya. Therefore one who has in contact with Nityānanda, they have become eternal.



nitāiyer caraṇa satya, tāṅhāra sevaka nitya,

dṛḍha kori' dharo nitāir pāy



So just catch Him very tightly. Narottama boro duḥkhī, nitāi more koro sukhī. At the last Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, the composer of this song, he is appealing to Nityānanda, "My dear Lord, I am very unhappy. So You please make me happy. And You kindly keep me in corner of Your lotus feet." That is the sum and substance of this song. (end)





770202NA.BHU

Lord Nityānanda Prabhu's

Āvirbhāva Appearance Day Lecture

-

Bhuvaneśvara, February 2, 1977



*Prabhupāda: So today, the appearance day of Nityānanda Prabhu... Nityānanda Prabhu is Baladeva, Baladeva*-tattva.



*vrajendra*-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei,

balarāma haila nitāi



"Who was formerly the son of Nanda Mahārāja, He has appeared as the son of Śacīdevi." Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mother's name was Śacīdevi. So Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Balarāma is Nityānanda Prabhu. Now...



*vrajendra*-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei,

balarāma haila nitāi



*So Balarāma... In the Vedic literature it is said, nāyam ātmā bala*-hinena labhyaḥ; na bahunā śrutena. So bala means strength. Sometimes some rascal philosophers, they take it that bala means bodily strength. They propagate this philosophy that "Unless you are bodily stout and strong, you cannot achieve spiritual salvation. You must be very strong and stout and eat meat and fight, and then you'll get next spiritual birth" No. This bala, this strength, is different. This is spiritual strength.



The difficulty of the present situation is that actually we are moving on account of spiritual strength, but they have no information of the spiritual strength. They are thinking of material strength. That is expressed here, that

*ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi*-pada pāsariyā,

asatyere satya kori māni



*This is due to ahaṅkāra. Ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. Those who are vimūḍha, especially rascal... Mūḍha, rascals, and vi means viśeṣa, viśeṣanam, particularly. Ahankara-vimudhātmā. The same thing which is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says the same thing in a plain Bengali language. Ahaṅkāre matta haiyā, nitāi-pada... By the spell of māyā-ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]- they are thinking that "We are independent. We can do whatever we like." This is called ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Under false pretext, false prestige, everyone is thinking that "We are independent. We can find out the solution of the problems of life by material adjustment," so on, so on. So that is our material disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Bewildered, they do not understand that the real strength is spiritual strength. We see daily, see daily that a very strong man, very powerful man, very good brain, very good scientist... So where is the strength? The strength is ātmā. As soon as the ātmā, or the soul, goes out of this body, so intelligent, so strong, and so many things, that is nothing. That is the difference between dead man and the living man. A living man is very powerful, very good position, everything. As soon as he lies down, he is lying down on the floor, and if you kick him on his face, he'll not protest. So where is that strength? The strength is gone. That is spiritual strength. On the spiritual strength, the body moves. Suppose you have got a very good car, Mercedes car or Rolls Royce car. But when there is no petrol, how the car will move? It is not possible. There is spirit, petrol spirit. Similarly, real strength is spiritual strength. That spiritual strength is Balarāma. Bala means strength. Therefore we have to take shelter of the lotus feet of Balarāma, guru-tattva.



*Balarāma means guru*-tattva. Balarāma represents guru. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If we want to understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu, if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then we must take shelter of Balarāma. Nāyam ātmā bala-hinena labhyaḥ. This bala-hinena labhyaḥ, this Vedic injunction, means "Without the mercy of Balarāma you cannot understand, you cannot realize your spiritual identification. So that Balarāma comes as Nityānanda Prabhu. Balarāma hailā nitāi. Therefore we must take shelter of Balarāma. That is... This song has been sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Nitāi-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala. If we take shelter of Nityānanda Prabhu, then we get peace. Koṭi-candra-suśītala. Just like in daytime, especially in the summer season, we become very much exasperated. But at night, in the evening, as soon as there is moonshine, we become very much satisfied. All day's labor and fatigue is immediately moved. So nitāi-pada-kamala, the shade of Nityānanda Prabhu's lotus feet, is koṭi-candra-suśītala, as pleasing as one crore of moonshine. One moonshine gives us so much pleasure. So if we want actually peace of mind, if we actually want to be free from this material fatiguement, then we must take the shelter of Nityānanda Prabhu. Nityānanda Prabhu is the strength, spiritual strength. And without spiritual strength you cannot approach Kṛṣṇa. Nāyam ātmā pravaca... Simply by talking nonsense... Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyaḥ. If you are a good speaker, that does not mean you'll understand, yourself. Na medhayā: "Neither by good brain." Because you have got very good brain you'll understand Kṛṣṇa-no. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. If you think that you are a very good scholar, university degree-holder, then you'll understand-no. This is not possible.

*So we must have spiritual strength. That source of spiritual strength is Balarāma, Kṛṣṇa's next manifestation, prakāśa*-vigraha. Kṛṣṇa is manifesting Himself through Balarāma. So we have to take shelter of Nityānanda Prabhu.

*nitāi*-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala,

je chāyāy jagata jurāy



The whole world is suffering, but if you want peace, then you take the shelter of Nityānanda Prabhu.



*heno nitāi bine bhāi, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pāite nāi

dhṛdha kori' dharo nitāir pāy



*Our real aim of life*-how to go back home back to Godhead and associate with Rādhā Kṛṣṇa. In another song the same author says,



*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,

jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu



*Unless you come to Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa, you cannot get real pleasure. If you want to dance and get pleasure, don't dance independently. Dance with Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. The dancing is there, but dancing without association of Kṛṣṇa... Just like here, in our temple, we are also eating, but we are eating the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. That is real pleasure. It is not that we are stopping eating. We are not stopping eating. We are not dry philosophers. Kṛṣṇa baro doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay, swa-prasād-anna dilo bhāi. All over the world we are eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam, and we have got good experience. At least ten thousand men and women, they are taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam, but we have no anxiety. We have no anxiety. A family consists of a few members. They are full of anxiety how to maintain the family. And we are maintaining a family of ten thousand men. We have no anxiety. Just see practically. We have no anxiety. We require thousands and thousands of rupees for maintaining Europe, America, a costly affair. But because we are under the shelter of Nityānanda Prabhu, Balarāma, we have no anxiety. That means material life means anxiety. You cannot avoid anxiety if you lead a material life. Then you will be anxious.



That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. He was asked by his father, "My dear son, what you have learned, the best thing from your teachers?" So he replied, "My dear father..." He never said, "My dear father"; *He said, "My dear best of the asuras." Asura*-varya. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. The whole human society is suffering, at least suffering from one disease-anxiety. Ask anybody. Take one small ant and take the big elephant; *take the President of United States or take one street beggar. Ask him, "Whether you are free from anxiety?" Nobody will say, "No." "I am full of anxiety." That's a fact. So why they are anxiety, in, full of anxiety? That Prahlāda Mahārāja had replied, sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt. Because we have taken asad-vastu, that will not exist... Everything, whatever you have got... Our, this body will not exist. And this is the main platform of our existence. In the material world, so long the body is there, you exist. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "Real solution of problems of life is to get out of this material condition. That is best thing in my opinion." Sada samadvigna-dhiyām asad... That is Vedic injunction also. Asato mā sad gamaya: "Don't live in this asat, in this material condition." Sad gamaya: "Go to real existence." That real existence means spiritual life. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So if we actually want life, blissful life, then we must get out of this material existence. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Samudvigna-dhiyām. And if you remain in the material existence, you must suffer some anxiety. There is no excuse.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja advises that hitvātma*-ghātam gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanam gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. If you... Real problem is anxiety. And this anxiety will continue so long you are material existent. Therefore the real life is to get out of this material... Hitvātma-ghātam. Ātma-ghāṭam. Ātma-ghātam means killing the soul. This material civilization is killing the soul. That... They have no information of the soul. They do not know how to become peaceful, how to become blissful. They are trying to be peaceful, bahir-artha-māninaḥ, by external material energy. They are thinking by constructing big, big buildings, just like in Bhuvaneśvara they are doing, and having good, very big, big roads and motorcars, that is advancement of civilization. No. That is not advancement of civili... That is increasing their anxiety. There is no solution of the anxiety. There is... Formerly that... I was speaking. There was no university. The university was in the cottage-Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was writing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and all the Purāṇas in a cottage. The university was there. Who can produce such literature as Vyāsadeva has given? From any angle of vision, from literary point of view, from philosophical point of view-everything, so perfect, every literature, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, and Vedānta. Veda-vyāsa, he has given. So there was no need of university. It required clear brain. That was to be done by the brahminical qualifications, śamo damo titikṣā ārjava, jñānaṁ-vijñānam āstikyam brahma-karma svabhāva... Where is that education? This education, technical education, how you can very nicely hammer, this will not solve the problem. So if we want real solution of the problems, then our duty is first of all to take the shelter of nitāi-pada-kamala. Then we'll be happy, and we'll get moonshine, and our all fatigueness will be subsided.

Sambandha nāhi jār, bṛthā janma gelo tār. So if you have no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu... Nityānanda means always. Nitya means always, ānanda means pleasure. This is another meaning you can draw. So therefore, if you have no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu... Se tār: "He's simply wasting time." Bṛthā means useless. Uselessly, he's wasting time. Se paśu boro durācār. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has used very strong word. "Anyone who has no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu, he's a paśu." Sei paśu. He's a paśu, means animal. So animal, how one animal can get happiness? That is not possible. The dog, from the childhood he's searching after food, searching after food. And cannot get food. Unless a dog has got a master, he's street dog and he's always unhappy. So better to become a dog of Nityānanda Prabhu. Then we shall be happy. Instead of becoming dog of so many other people... Everyone is dog. Everyone is searching after to serve a master. But none of them are satisfied because that is false master. You take real master, Nityānanda Prabhu. You'll be happy. Se paśu boro durācār. He does not know where is happiness. Where I shall become a dog? That...

Our Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has sung therefore,

vaisnava ṭhākur, tomāra kukkur,

boliya janaha more



*"My dear Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, kindly accept me as your dog, as your dog. I am dog already, but I am māyā's dog. I'm not Vaiṣṇava's dog. So kindly accept me." If you become a Vaiṣṇava's dog... Chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava sevā, nistār pāiche kebā. If you do not become a dog of Vaiṣṇava and Nityānanda Prabhu... Nityānanda is guru. So if you do not become a dog of Nityānanda Prabhu, Vaiṣṇava, or guru, there is no question of happiness. Se sambandha nāhi yār, bṛthā janma gelo... se paśu boro durācār. Nitāi nā bolilo mukhe, majilā saṁsāra-sukhe. He who has no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu, and he does not say, "Jaya Nitāi! Jaya Gaura!" And majilo saṁsāra-sukhe, he thinks that this society, family, and... "Society, friendship and love, divinely bestowed upon man." These materialist persons, they say like that. That is called majilo saṁsāra sukhe. In saṁsāra there cannot be any sukha, but he's attracted by that. Majilo saṁsāra sukhe. Vidyā-kule ki koribe tār. What we'll do with university education or born in big family or... This will not help. This is not possible. Vidyā-kule ki karibe tār. Why they're accepting this false? Ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pasariya, asatyere satya kori māni. On account of being misled by false prestige and false egotism, asatyere satya kori māni, we are accepting this body which is asat, which will not exist. That we have taken as reality. Ahaṅkare matta hoiya, nitāi pada pasariya. But if we take shelter of Nityānanda Prabhu, then you get the enlightenment. Asatyere satya kori māni. Nitāiyer koruṇā habe, braje rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pabe, dharo nitāi-caraṇa du'khāni.



*Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura advises that... Today is Nityānanda Prabhu's āvirbhāva appearance day. Let us at least remember today nitāi*-pada-kamala. That is wanted. Nitāi caraṇa satya, tāhāra sevaka nitya. The reality is nitāi-caraṇa, and anyone who is servant of Nitāi... So nitāiyer caraṇa satya, tāhāra sevaka nitya. One who has become the dog of Nityānanda Prabhu, he gets his eternal life. We are eternal, but under misconception of material identification, we are under the subjugation of māyā. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Tathā dehāntara... [Bg. 2.13] It is very botheration, but they do not know. I am going from one body to another transmigration. And that is not guaranteed, what kind of body. They have no science, no knowledge about understanding tathā dehāntara, the very first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. They are so rascals, and they are proud of their education, their universities. This is going on.

*Nitāi caraṇa satya, tāhāra sevaka..., nitāi*-pada sadā koro āśā. Therefore we should always expect to be under the shelter of nitāi-pada-kamala. Narottama boro duḥkhī. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he's ācārya. He is presenting himself... That is ācārya. Means he is not duḥkhī, but he's presenting himself as duḥkhī. That is ācārya. Ācāryas, they are never duḥkhī. But taking the common man's position, he says, narottama boro duḥkhī. Or, in other words, Narottama... Narottama means the best of the human being. So here in this material world one may be the best of the human being, very exalted position, but everyone is duḥkī, unhappy. Narottama boro duḥkī, nitāi more koro sukhī: "Only Nityānanda can make me happy. Otherwise not possible." Rakho raṅga-caraṇera pāśa. So today is Nityānanda Prabhu's appearance day. We shall always pray Nityānanda Prabhu, "Kindly keep me under your shelter so that... I am very duḥkī; I am very unhappy. Under the shelter of Your lotus feet I shall be happy." And that is real happiness. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end) (this lecture followed by Bengali speech of Nityānanda Kanurgo, former chief minister of Gujarat)





690207BA.LA

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta

Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Appearance Day, Lecture

-

Los Angeles, February 7, 1969



Prabhupāda: ...means a broader heart. They are not satisfied simply by his personal comfort. In political history also, you will find so many great leaders. They sacrificed their own comforts. In your country there was George Washington. He sacrificed so many. There were other leaders. In every country, in political field. Similarly, social field also. Even the political leaders, the Marx, they also, he was also compassionate by seeing the terrible condition of the Russian peasants, so he started that communist movement. That is the way. Great men, they work for the general mass of people. They are not... That is their greatness.



So Advaita Prabhu, when He found that people are simply engaged in eating, sleeping, and they are not, they have no concern with Kṛṣṇa, and their life is being spoiled, so He wanted to start this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, say, about six hundred years ago, but He considered Himself as unable to take up this movement seriously because the condition of the people was so wretched. He thought that "If Kṛṣṇa Himself comes, then it can be done. Otherwise it is not possible." So Advaita Prabhu called Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His call, He appeared, Kṛṣṇa appeared. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was almost like grandson of Advaita Prabhu. But when He was young man, a very beautiful youth, so at that time nobody knew, but Advaita Prabhu knew that "He is Kṛṣṇa. He has come." So He was simply... Sometimes devotees pretend to be not in knowledge. So He was praying Kṛṣṇa, "This boy is very nice. If He takes up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then it will be very successful. He is very intelligent, beautiful."

*In this way there was, Caitanya's Mahāprabhu's time, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was going nicely, very. And after Him, there was six Gosvāmīs. They also managed. Then, as it is the rule of this material world that you start something very good but in due course of time the things deteriorate, so this Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, also deteriorated in due course of time. Say, after the disappearance of the Gosvāmīns, about 250 years after, the things became most ridiculous. The so-called devotees... Their representatives still are continuing. They are called prākṛta-sahajiyā. Prākṛta-sahajiyā means taking things very easily. They thought that Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa is just like a boy and girl's lusty affairs. And in this way they took it that sex life as religion. Even Vivekananda, he also criticized, "Vaiṣṇavism is sex religion." So the things deteriorated in such a way that... And similarly, as Advaita Prabhu was afflicted, similarly, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura... He was at that time a householder, government officer and magistrate. He felt very much: "Oh, Lord Caitanya's movement is so... People... As soon as one will see that he belongs to the Caitanya sampradāya, he'll deride, 'Oh, these are all rascals, simply taking sex pleasures. That's all.' " There were thirteen pseudo Vaiṣṇavas, thirteen sects: Āula, Bāula, Karttābhajā, Neḍā, Daraveṣa, Sāṅi, Sahajiyā, Sakhībhekī. Sāṅi community... You have heard that in London there is a Sāṅi community. Sāṅi Hindu center you have heard from Mukunda? The Sāṅi is there still. So there are thirteen pseudo pretenders belonging to the Caitanya-sampradāya. They are called first Āula, Bāula, Karttābhajā, Neḍā, Daraveṣa, Sāṅi, Sakhībhekī, Gaurāṅga-nagarī, Cūḍādhārī, Ativāḍī, and Smārta, Jāta-gosāñi. Like that, thirteen.

*So if I describe these thirteen, it will take thirteen hours. So I don't describe all them. But one or two must be described. The most important is the Jāta*-gosāñi. Jāti-gosāñi. They created a caste of gosvāmīns, just like they created a caste of brāhmaṇas, a caste of gosvāmīns. So this gosvāmī will come by hereditary birth, just like brāhmaṇa. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was very sorry to see the condition of the society. So these gosvāmīns... The original history of gosvāmī is the six Gosvāmīns. Now, out of the six Gosvāmīns, none of them were priestly class. So far Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were great politicians, prime minister, a finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah. So... And similarly, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was a big zamindar. His father is... Zamindar means landholder. During British period... No, at that time not British period, Mohammedan period. They distributed land among some, I think, in the Western countries bourgeois (pronounces "boor zhwa") they call? Bourgeois? Or in England, the landholders, what they are called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a word for it.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So zamindar, landholder. So he belonged to a very big landholder... His father, his father and uncle, two brothers. So he was the only son. So naturally, he was to inherit the whole property, and at that time it was twelve hundred thousands dollars' income. Just see how much he was rich man. When he used to see Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Nityānanda in his youth-hood, when he was eighteen years', twenty years' age-he was almost of the contemporary of Lord Caitanya*-he used to distribute gold to the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, gold, so much gold. What is the price of so much gold? He used to distribute. He was rich man, so he was doing like rich man. So that is the history of Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. That is the history of Sanātana Gosvāmī. None of them were belonging to the Vaiṣṇava sect or nothing. Caitanya Mahāprabhu turned them. This Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī were rejected from the brāhmaṇa community because at that time the brāhmaṇa society was so strict, if somebody takes service of a Musselman or anyone, oh, he is immediately exterminated: "Oh, you cannot be accepted as pure..." Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, according to Vedic system, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya, they'll not accept any service, even it is worth $200,000. No. That he will not acc... Then that is degradation. Only the śūdras can accept. That was the Vedic system. To accept another's service was so abominable. In the Bhāgavata also it is stated that if the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśya, especially the brāhmaṇas, they have no livelihood, then they can adopt the business of kṣatriya and vaiśya, but never accept the occupation of the dog, śūdra. That is stated. You see? So to accept service of others was so abominable, even five hundred years ago. So this Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, they were also belonged to very rich family, but because they accepted ministership in the government of a Muhammadan, they were rejected. They were exterminated from the society. What is the extermination of society? He will never be invited. Nobody will offer his daughter to their family, because according to Vedic system, daughters and sons are not loitering in the street. The father and mother must engage. So if one is exterminated, oh, it is very difficult to get his daughter married. Nobody will accept. That was their condition. Actually, they also became hopelessness. They became almost Muhammadan. They changed their name, Dabira Khāsa. This is Muhammadan name. And Sākara Mallika. Caitanya Mahāprabhu made them Gosvāmī, this Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he belonged to the Muhammadan community. He was made nāmācārya, the principal ācārya of this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the revolutionary method of Caitanya.



*Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not liked by the hereditary brāhmaṇas. They dislike. Whenever there is Caitanya movement, they pose another counter. This Rama*-Krishna is a counteraction of Caitanya. Because Caitanya, the Vaiṣṇava-sampradāya, accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as incarnation of God, so they presented this Gadādhara Chatterjee as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, and by worshiping Kālī. You see? So this competition is since a very long time between the Vaiṣṇava and the other sect. Anyway, when these Gosvāmīs... My point is that originally the Gosvāmīs came from ordinary person. There is no caste. But they manufactured a caste of Gosvāmī, you see, this brāhmaṇa class. This brāhmaṇa class, the hereditary brāhmaṇa class, played so many havocs in the history of India. The Pakistan is also due to this hereditary brahmanism. You see? They hated so much the Muhammadans and the śūdras. First of all they hated the śūdras, and then, when the śūdras, they became Muhammadans, they hated the Muhammadans. And gradually it developed that the so-called śūdras and Muhammadans, politically the Britishers took advantage, agitated them. They cut up India into Pakistan and Hindustan.

So there are many histories. So it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He accepted everyone to this movement. So my Guru Mahārāja's contribution is that he defeated these caste gosvāmīns. He defeated this brahmanism. He created that the same way as Caitanya Mahāprabhu did, that, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsi kene naya

yei kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



"There is no consideration whether a man is a sannyāsī, a brāhmaṇa, or a śūdra, or a this or a gṛhastha, householder, or... No. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is all right. He is gosvāmī. He is brāhmaṇa." That is the contribution, say, within hundred years. That is the contribution. And for this reason he had to face so many vehement protests from this brāhmaṇa class gosvāmīns. He... They conspired to kill him. Guru Mahārāja told me personally. Others... Because, by his grace, when I used to meet alone, he used to talk so many things. He was so kind that he used to talk so many things with me. So he personally told me that "These people, they wanted to kill me. They collected 25,000 rupees and went to the police officer in charge of that area, that 'You take this 25,000 rupees. We shall do something against Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. You don't take any step.' " He could understand that they want to kill him. Just like in your country also, the polit..., Kennedy, was killed. You know. He wanted to kill. So the police officer frankly said, "Of course, we accept bribe, and we indulge in such things, but not for a sādhu, not for a saintly person. I cannot dare this." And the police officer refused and came to my Guru Mahārāja that "You take care. This is the position." You see? So vehemently protested.



*So his method of preaching is just according to the, strictly according to the rules and regulation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And as Caitanya Mahāprabhu was called by Advaita Prabhu, similarly, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, when he saw this condition of pseudo Vaiṣṇava all over the country, he also prayed to Lord Caitanya that "You kindly send somebody from Your personal staff so that I can start this movement." You see? So by the grace of Lord Caitanya, as we pray, śrī*-gaura-karuṇā-śakti-vigrahāya namo 'stu te. Gaura... He is mercy representation of Lord Caitanya. And he appeared as the son of this Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. At that time he was known as Kedaranath Datta. Ken Datta. And he appeared in 1867 as the child of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. And the house is still preserved in Jagannātha Purī. At that time Jagannātha Purī, he was magistrate in Jagannātha Purī, and he was... The system in the Jagannātha Purī, the manager, the official manager, is the district magistrate. So he was district magistrate. And in February 1867, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura appeared. And when he appeared, his, this what is called, the intestine?

Madhudviṣa: Umbilical cord?



Prabhupāda: Cord, cord. What is it called?



Viṣṇujana: Umbilical.



*Prabhupāda: Embryo cord. That embryo cord was like this. Yes. That means brāhmaṇa from the beginning. You see? So when he was a child... He appeared in February. Then... When the Ratha*-yātrā takes place? In July. So February, March, April, May, June, July. So when he was six months old, the Ratha-yātrā festival was held. And by chance the big cart stopped in front of that house. That is generally in the Jagannātha car stops. Just like our car also stops somewhere. And you have some difficulty to push it again? That's nice. That also happens in Jagannātha Purī. It was stopped, and some people were... Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to push with His head. So that was wonderful. So anyway the car stopped, and mother of our Guru Mahārāja, the child Guru Mahārāja, so she took the opportunity, and because she was manager's wife, so everyone respected with the child. So she put the child on the leg of Jagannātha. And as there are so many garlands, one garland immediately fell on the child. Yes. Automatically. So in this way Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura could understand that "This child is not ordinary child," and he knew that "I prayed to Gaurasundara to send me somebody. So this boy, this child, is sent by Him." So he took care of him very carefully. And in this way his name was Bimala Prasāda, Bimala Prasāda Datta.



*So when he was three years or four years old, he took one mango from the Deity room and ate it. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, "Oh, you have done a great wrong thing. You have taken the mango of the Deity before offering Him? It is a great offense." The child took it very serious, and my Guru Mahārāja never took mango throughout his whole life. Whenever mango was offered, he would say, "Oh, I am a offender. I cannot take that." You see? So there was a big meeting. What is this sound? Somebody's sleeping? All right. (laughter) In Midnapur district, when he was young man, he was holding meeting. He was a great astrologer, and he opened an astrological school when he was young man. And there are many big students still practicing. They are all students of my Guru Mahārāja. And there was a meeting in Midnapur district. The subject matter "Brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas." So in that meeting Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was invited. At that time he was not very in healthy condition, indisposed. So he asked Sarasvatī Ṭhākura that "You go and speak there." So he spoke on the distinction between brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, and he defeated so many learned paṇḍitas. Then the whole audience began to take, touch his lotus feet and touch with water and drink it, in this way, when he was young man. That book is also available in Bengali, Brāhmaṇa*-Vaiṣṇava.

*Then, after disappearance of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in 1914... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura organized this Kṛṣṇa Caitanya's movement in pure form from Māyāpur. He published many books and papers, Sajjana*-toṣaṇī. When he passed away in 1914, at that time, he entrusted the matter to Siddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, that "I am going, my work unfinished, about this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. You take charge of it." So he took very seriously the word of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So since 1914 to '18, he was simply thinking that "How I can expand this movement?" So in 1918 he started this movement with the help of some disciples. Kṛṣṇa sent him. So one of the disciples, he is now Tīrtha Mahārāja. Perhaps he is... He belonged to Rama Krishna Mission Society. So he is very ambitious. So he took the opportunity of starting this movement, finding out the saintly person. So apart from that point of view, with his help this Gauḍīya Mission was started, and gradually it developed. So in Calcutta Guru Mahārāja started in 1918. And, I think, in 1922, when I was young man, one of my friends, he took me to Guru Mahārāja. That was my first meeting. And, of course, he was speaking to everyone, but he found me as something. So immediately after my meeting, he said this, that "Why don't you preach this Caitanya's cult in the Western countries?" That is a memorable day. Of course, I did not know that I will have to do it. You see? It is...

Boy: What?



Prabhupāda: Stop. Whatever you do not understand, you will ask later on, not in the middle. I could not understand that time. You see? It was... I talked with him in so many ways: "Who will hear your Caitanya's message? We are dependent country." At that time I was Gandhi's devotee. In 1920 I gave up my educational career and joined this Congress Movement. Because Gandhi's program was to boycott the university education and the British law court, so we took this opportunity and gave up education. You see? (chuckles) So then Dr. Bose, he was my father's friend. So he asked, "What this Abhaya is doing?" And my sister told him, "Oh, he has appeared in the B.A. examination, but he is not doing anything." So Dr. Bose was my father's friend. So he appointed me the manager of his laboratory. I did not know anything; still, he appointed me. So that was in 1921. In 1920 I gave up my education. Of course, I was married in 1918, and I got my first child in 1921. So in 1922, when I saw my Guru Mahārāja and when I was convinced about his argument and mode of presentation, I was so much struck with wonder. I could understand that "Here is the proper person who can give real religious idea." That I appreciated at that time. And at that time I thought, "This great personality is asking me to preach. I would have immediately joined, but now I am married. It will be injustice." Of course, I thought like that, in that way. Of course, Guru Mahārāja did not say anything, that "You give up your family life." No, never said. He simply gave the idea. So I thought that "It would have been better if I was not married." Anyway, then, 1923, I left Calcutta on my business, and I established my headquarter at Allahabad. So all the days I was thinking of this, "Oh, I saw a very nice saintly person. But I am now off from Calcutta." So I was thinking like that. Practically he initiated me because I was thinking of..., always.



*Then, in 1928, there was a big fair which is called Kumbhamelā. At that time I was doing business in Allahabad. My business was very flourishing. It was well*-known drug shop. So the persons who went to organize our Gauḍīya Maṭha's camp in that fair, somebody has told that "Here is a Bengali gentleman's business. You can go, and he is very religious man. He will help." So all the disciples of Guru Mahārāja, they approached my shop, my store, drug store. And because I was thinking of them, so I thought, "Oh, here is the men." You see? You see? I was very glad-"So they have come again"-because I was separated from them in 1923, and again I saw them in 1928 after five years, and I was thinking of Guru Mahārāja simply in this way, "Oh, I met a very nice saintly person. Very nice saintly person. If I can see him again?" Like that. So in this way, with my help, the Allahabad center of Gauḍīya Maṭha was established. Then I was initiated in 1933. In 1933. And in 1936 I was, at that time, in Bombay, and Guru Mahārāja was very much indisposed, and he was at Purī, Jagannātha Purī. We have got our temple there. Guru Mahārāja established sixty-four temples, small and big. Just like I am increasing, he increased. So most of the temples were in Bengal. In Bengal there were about fifty out of sixty-four. And one temple was at Allahabad, one was in Madras. In this way, outside Bengal, about three, four, one Benares. And he sent Bon Mahārāja also in 1933 to London for preaching, but unfortunately, some way or other, he could not do anything, so Guru Mahārāja called him back in 1934. He was not satisfied and sent another Godbrother, gosvāmī.

*In 1936, just on the 13th, December, I wrote him one letter. Not 13th. I think by the beginning of December, 1936, I wrote one letter to Guru Mahārāja. I knew he was little kind upon me, so I wrote that "Guru Mahārāja, you have got many disciples. I am also one of them. But they are doing direct service to you. Some of them are brahmacārīs, some of them sannyāsīs, but I am a householder. I cannot..." Of course, I was giving sometimes some monetary help, but I could not give any direct service, so I asked him that "If there is any particular service I can do for you?" So that letter was replied in 13th December, dated 13th December, from Purī. And he passed away on the 31st December. Just a fortnight before. So the reply was the same as he wanted me to do this preaching work in 1922, when I first met him, that "You try to preach whatever you have learned from me to the English*-knowing people in English. That will do good to you and to the people to whom you shall preach. That is my instruction." So I took up, direction. And then he passed away in 1936, 31st December. So I consulted some of my Godbrothers, senior Godbrothers, "Guru Mahārāja has told me like this. What can I do?" So you have heard the name of Professor Sanyal, and there were other Godbrothers. They asked me to write on the Vaiṣṇava-siddhānta in English. So perhaps in 1935 I wrote one poetry. The part of it, somebody, you have got. He was very pleased. Since then he was insisting me that "You write on, preach on in English." At that time I was thinking, "What can I do?" So anyway, after his passing away, this Back to Godhead paper was started, as late in 1944, I think, because the expenditure was three hundred, four hundred rupees per month.

*So somehow or other, it has begun, the blessings of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, as he wanted me, he desired me. So because he desired, my... I am not very expert or educated or nothing extraordinary, but only thing is that I believed in his word. That is... You can say that is my qualification. I believed cent percent in his word. So whatever success is there, it is just due to my firm faith in his instruction. So I am trying to follow. And by his grace, you are helping me. So actually, the responsibility will now depend on you. I am also old man. I may pass away at any moment. This movement should go on, you see, this movement started by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then accelerated by Gosvāmīs, and then again Viśvanātha Cakravartī. And when... Just like whenever there is... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. When there is some slowness, either Kṛṣṇa Himself or some representative comes to give it a push. So you should know it, that this movement should be pushed on. This should not be neglected. And I am glad that you are catching the ideas very nicely, and try... Simple thing: you chant sincerely and follow the rules and regulation. The rules and regulation are not very strict. They are very simple. But because you are trained in a different way... But I am so pleased and obliged to you that you have adopted. I never expected. When I came first in Boston, I was thinking, "Oh, who will accept these Vaiṣṇava rules and regulations? These people are after meat and wine and illicit sex, and how they will accept it?" I was hopeless: "How they will chant?" You see? So by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at least, I am hopeful that this movement can be accepted by anyone. It is not so hopeless as I thought. But apart from my calculation, you are realizing. This movement should be pushed on. Just like great souls always think of the poor souls, similarly, you should also feel. That is the way. Lord Jesus Christ, he also prayed for the sinful persons. So this is very good. If we struggle hard to push this movement, then, even we, you don't get any follower, Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. And our business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means one has to engage his all senses for the satisfaction. Material life means sense satisfaction for his self: "I like this. I like this. I want to do something. I want to sing something or chant something, eat something, or touch something, or taste something. This is something..." That means using the senses. That is the material life. "I want to touch such soft skin. I want to taste such, what is called, nice food. I want to smell like this. I want to walk like this." The same thing-walking, tasting, touching, or anything-should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Instead of touching something else, if we touch the sanctified lotus feet of a devotee, that touch will be utilized. Instead of eating nonsense, if we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, it will be all right. Instead of smelling something else, if we smell the flowers offered to Kṛṣṇa... So nothing is stopped. If you want to use your sex life, yes, you can use for producing Kṛṣṇa conscious children. Nothing is stopped. Simply it is purified. That's all. This is the whole program. There is no question of "Stop this." Stop cannot be. How it can be stopped? Suppose I am a human being. If somebody says, "Oh, you cannot eat," is it possible? I must eat. So there is no question of stopping. The question is purifying it. So... And the other philosophy is to, I mean to say, snub down forcibly, make it void, just like they say, "Just become desireless." They advocate. So how can I be desireless? Desire must be there. But I shall desire for Kṛṣṇa.

*So this is very nice process. And even others do not take it very seriously or they do not come to our philosophy, if you try for it, that is your business. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Our ācāryas will be satisfied, Guru Mahārāja will be satisfied. And yasya prasādād bhagavat... If they are satisfied, then your business is finished. You see? Not that others is satisfied or not. By your chanting some public is satisfied*-no, we are not concerned with that. He may be satisfied or not satisfied. But if I chant in the proper way, then my predecessors, the ācāryas, will be satisfied. That is my business, finished, if I don't invent in my own way. So I am very glad that Kṛṣṇa has sent so many nice boys and girls to help me. Be blessed on this auspicious day. And there is nothing mine. I am simply a postal peon. I am delivering to you what I have heard from my Guru Mahārāja. Simply you also act in the same way, and you will be happy, and the world will be happy, and Kṛṣṇa will be happy, and everything will be... (end)



710215SB.GOR

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta

Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Appearance Day, SB 6.3.24

-

Gorakhpur, February 15, 1971



Mālatī: This lecture was recorded on February 15, 1971, in the morning, and it was in Gorakhpur, in U.P., India. It was on the occasion of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī's Appearance Day. That day, we fasted in the morning up till noon time. Then we offered a regular noon meal, and in the evening time there was the feast of four preparations: puris, halavā, vegetable, and chutney.



Prabhupāda:



*etāvatālam agha*-nirharaṇāya puṁsāṁ

*saṅkīrtanaṁ bhagavato guṇa*-karma-nāmnām

vikruśya putram aghavān yad ajāmilo 'pi

nārāyaṇeti mriyamāṇa iyāya muktim

[SB 6.3.24]



*So we have concluded this verse, that Yamarāja says that the holy name of the Personality of Godhead, Bhāgavata, not only His name, but also His activities and His qualities, these qualities... Last night, somebody was discussing with me saguṇa and nirguṇa. Saguṇa means, according to their version, or a standard version, saguṇa means the material quality. They worship saguṇa*-rūpa. Saguṇa means forms of this material world. Sādhakānāṁ hitārthāya brāhmaṇa-rūpa-kalpanaḥ.(?) Kalpanaḥ. According to Māyāvādī school, the Absolute Truth is imperson. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām, adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām [Bg. 12.5]. Say, for meditation, it is very difficult to meditate on impersonal feature. Therefore, they artificially think like that: "I am the whole. I am moving the stars, I am moving the moon." Or some color display is taking place. Artificially. This meditation is artificial. Therefore, they do not get any result. Simply waste time, and they remain the number one debauch, as they are. So this kind of meditation... Because they will not put any form... "The Brahman is impersonal." So how they can think of any form? It is very difficult to adjust. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām [Bg. 12.5]. They want to meditate upon impersonal Brahman, but it is very troublesome. Because Brahman is not impersonal, but force, they want to make Brahman impersonal.



*So in order to mitigate this troublesome position, some of their ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, has said that "You imagine a form. There is no real form, but you imagine some form." And he has recommended five forms. The first form is Durgā, Śakti. The second form is Sūrya, the sun, sun worshiper. And the third form is Gaṇeśa, and the fourth form is Śiva. And the fifth form is Viṣṇu. Of course, these are the different stages of spiritual development. Durgā... Durgā means the material power, energy. So when a person is in the lowest stage of material existence, he realizes some power. That's a fact. The scientists also, they realize some power, there is some power in the material world. They go on searching after what is the ultimate power, but they cannot find it out. That is not possible. But they accept that there is some power, nature's power. So that is the stage of śakta stage, Durgā worship. Then... Power... Just like modern scientists, they also have gone to the power of the sun. That power, another power. That power is sun, and that is called saura, worshiping the sun. Just like there is a Parsi community in India. Fire worship is recommended in the Vedas. So that powerful sun, sun*-god, they worship the sun. That is the stage of saura, saura stage. And then, next is the power vox populi, the power of the votes. That is the stage of Gaṇapati. Gaṇa... Gaṇa means the number of people. Just like in nationalism they are counting upon the power. In this way, they realize some sort of power, I mean to say, moving force or the soul. That is the stage of... They say, śivo 'ham. Śivo 'ham. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is the stage of śaiva. And when they expand that, that "This power, this spiritual power, soul, is all over, all-pervading, impersonal Brahman," that is... They, sometimes they accept Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu means all-pervading. But their realization of Viṣṇu is impersonal.

When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya what is the process of elevation, sādhya, sādhana, what is the ultimate objective, Rāmānanda Rāya quoted a verse from the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa* that,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



The beginning of real human civilization is observance of the institute of four varṇas and four āśramas. That is the beginning of civilized life. Otherwise, it is not civilized life; *it is crude, uncivilized life, where there is no varṇāśrama, where there (is) no division of society according to work and quality and āśrama, spiritual life division. So Rāmānanda Rāya recommended this verse, that this is the process to satisfy the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that eho bāhya āge kaha āra, "This is external. If you know something more, better than this, you say." Why He said? There is the version, viṣṇur ārādhyate. Does it mean that He is rejecting Viṣṇu worship? No, He's not rejecting. Because generally, they, these impersonalists, Māyāvādīs, they also worship sometimes Viṣṇu, these five demigods and God. But their idea is that ultimately impersonal. The impersonal takes the form by the help of this material world. The formation takes place simply in the material. That is their opinion. Therefore they say, call, saguṇa. Saguṇa*-upāsanā.



*Just try to understand this. Saguṇa*-upāsanā means when Brahman takes a form He takes a form from this material help. Just like we take a form, we spiritual entities. We also take a form, transmigration of the soul according to karma. I create a certain type of mentality, and that continues throughout my life. And at the time of death, because I have got a certain type of mentality, man-mentality or God-mentality or dog-mentality or fly-mentality, any kind of... There are so many. So I have to take a certain type of body. So that body I have to take not by my whim. Daivena. Daiva-netreṇa: by the decision of higher authorities. Daiva, generally, it means the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His agents. He has got many. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. So the material agent is Durgā. So I create a mentality by my association with this material world. There are three kinds of qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So one of them or mixed, I will have to accept. Because I am associating. Just like... It is not difficult. If you associate with the hippies, you will become hippie. If you associate with the hippies, you will become hippie. If you associate with the Vaiṣṇava, you become Vaiṣṇava. That is practical. So similarly, if you associate with tamo-guṇa... One of the features of tamo-guṇa is laziness and sleepy. I am against so much sleeping because it is tamo-guṇa. And the features of rajo-guṇa is very active, but for sense gratification. Just like ordinary persons, they are very active. They rise also early in the morning, they work very hard, but the whole plan is for sense gratification. That's all. That is rajo-guṇa. And sattva-guṇa means they are silent, they are sober, they know what is what, and they try for spiritual advancement. That is sattva-guṇa.

*So you can understand whether a man is in sattva*-guṇa or a man is in rajo-guṇa or a man is in tamo-guṇa by the symptoms of his behavior. So as we associate with different types of guṇas we develop a certain type of mentality that continues, and if it continues up to the point of death, then certainly we'll have to accept a body influenced by these guṇas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Yasmāt, these guṇaiḥ. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. According to the association of guṇa, or quality, prakṛti gives you a certain type of body. The body is given by prakṛti, by nature. Therefore, nature is called mother, Durgā. Just like we develop this body exactly from the mother's womb. The father gives the seed, but the bodily ingredients, that is... Just like mother is developing the body, similarly, she is developing the child's body also, by eating, by the secretion, by development of the secretion, air. Air is solidifying the secretion. It is becoming gradually muscles, skin, bone, as it is becoming harder and harder. A very nice factory is going on. That is also by nature. And nature is working by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa.

*So this bodily development given by the nature is also adduced to the body of Kṛṣṇa. That is Māyāvādī philosophy. Māyāvādī philosophy means they accept Kṛṣṇa as God, but He has assumed a body which is given by this material nature, as it is given to us. That is their policy. They count Kṛṣṇa an ordinary man, on the same level. But that is not a fact. Therefore Kṛṣṇa condemns this philosophy, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. "Because I appear as a human being, therefore these rascals consider that I am ordinary man." The rascals, mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍhāḥ means rascals, gādhāḥ, asses. Their designation is given by Kṛṣṇa as asses, rascals. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, māyāvādi*-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. Because these commentaries, comments by the Māyāvādī school, is simply rascaldom. And if one hears such commentary by the Māyāvādīs, the result will be he'll be doomed. Doomed means forever... Forever, no. For very, very long time he'll not be able to understand actual his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he's doomed. And because he is not able to understand his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, he is called rākṣasa or asura. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ.

*That is also condemned in Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. You'll find amongst them very, very learned men, very, very good scholar. They can quote... Intelligent men. Because their Māyāvādī commentary, they can utilize, and Kṛṣṇa gives them intelligence also, that "You misuse this verse in this way because you want..." Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān [Bg. 16.19]. Kṛṣṇa is sitting within the heart of everyone. So Māyāvādī philosopher wants to kill God, or Kṛṣṇa. Or nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi, they want to make Kṛṣṇa as zero or Kṛṣṇa as nirākāra. So Kṛṣṇa also gives them intelligence, "Yes, you just put forward this logic, that logic, that logic, and you prove." That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Mattaḥ, "Through Me, from Me, all remembrance or memorization takes place."

So Māyāvādī wants to prove that the ultimate truth is nirākāra, or impersonal. So Kṛṣṇa gives you intelligence: "Yes, you put this forward. Put forward this logic, this logic, that logic." Similarly, Kṛṣṇa gives... There is a Bengali proverb that how God works, that one man, a householder is praying to God, "My dear Lord, there may not be any theft case, burglary, in my home this night. Please save me." So one man is praying prayer, praying like that. Another man is praying, the thief, "My dear Lord, this night I shall commit burglary in that house. Please help me to get something." Now, what is Kṛṣṇa's position? (laughter) Kṛṣṇa is everyone's heart. So Kṛṣṇa has to satisfy so many prayers. The burglar and the thief and the householder, so many prayers. So Kṛṣṇa's adjustment... But He's still... That is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence, how He adjusts. He gives everyone freedom. And everyone is given facilities, but still He's in botheration. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises to his devotees that "Don't plan anything. You rascal, you nonsense, you don't give Me trouble. (laughter) Please surrender unto Me. Just go under My plan; you'll be happy. You are making plan, you are unhappy; I am also unhappy. I am also unhappy. (laughter) So many plans are coming daily, and I'll have to fulfill." But He's merciful. If a... Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs... [Bg. 4.11].

So except the devotee of Kṛṣṇa, everyone is simply giving Kṛṣṇa trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble. Therefore, they are called duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina, most miscreant, the miscreants. Don't make any plan. Accept Kṛṣṇa's plan. That will be simply giving trouble to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, a devotee does not pray even for his maintenance. That is pure devotee. He doesn't give trouble to Kṛṣṇa even for his bare maintenance. If he has no maintenance, he'll suffer, fasting; still, he'll not ask Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, I am very hungry. Give me some food." Of course, Kṛṣṇa is alert for His devotee, but a devotee's principle is not to place any plan to Kṛṣṇa. Let Kṛṣṇa do. Simply we have to do according to the plan of Kṛṣṇa.

*So what is our plan? Our plan is, Kṛṣṇa's says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. So our plan is the same thing. We are simply canvassing for Kṛṣṇa, that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We have to show our example, how we are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, how we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa, how we are going on the street for vibrating Kṛṣṇa's name, transcendental name. Now we are distributing Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. As far as possible, our business is to induce persons how he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. For that reason, you can make your plan, because that is Kṛṣṇa's plan. But that should also be sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa. Don't make your own manufactured, concocted plan. Therefore, to guide you, a Kṛṣṇa's representative required. That is spiritual master.

*So there is a huge plan and huge scheme. Therefore we have to follow the footsteps of the mahājanas. As it is stated here, that dvādaśaite vijānīmo dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ. He said that "We, the selected mahājanas, representatives of Kṛṣṇa, we know what is bhāgavata*-dharma, what is Kṛṣṇa dharma." Dvādaśa. Dvādaśa. The dvādaśa means twelve names, already mentioned: svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ... [SB 6.3.20]. I have explained. So Yamarāja said, "Only we, these twelve men, representatives of Kṛṣṇa, we know what is bhāgavata-dharma." Dvādaśaite vijānīmaḥ. Vijānīmaḥ means "we know." Dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ, guhyaṁ viśuddhaṁ durbodhaṁ yaṁ jñātvāmṛtam aśnute. "We know." Therefore it is advised, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. These mahājanas, as they have prescribed, that is the real way for understanding Kṛṣṇa, or spiritual salvation (service?).

*So we are following the Brahma*-sampradāya, the first, Svayambhū. Brahmā. Brahmā, then Nārada, from Nārada, Vyāsadeva. In this way, Madhvācārya, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in this way. So today, because we are following the footsteps of Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, so this is, today is his appearance day. So we should honor this tithi very respectfully and pray to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī that "We are engaged in your service. So give us strength, give us intelligence. And we are being guided by your servant." So in this way we have to pray. And I think in the evening we shall distribute prasādam. Not at noon. In the evening there will be some, so many audience come. So they can be distributed prasādam, and some of the members who can come from Bhatikara, they can be also invited. So arrange for this. And at twelve o'clock, we offer puṣpāñjali. That puṣpāñjali mantra, it should be beginning... It should begin from the beginning. Not... You were singing, śrī-vārṣabhānavī-devī. There are two other lines. Why do you forget that?

*Haṁsadūta: Śrī*-vārṣabhānavī-devī...



Prabhupāda: No. Before that, there are two other lines. What is that?



*Pradyumna: Namo oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhūtale śrīmate bhaktisiddhānta-sarasvatīti nāmine.



Prabhupāda: Why do you forget them? Yes. So you can chant this mantra and offer puṣpāñjali flower. And we shall together offer flowers. Actually, the worship is..., that is my duty. But sagoṣṭhī. Now I'll have to offer my respect with my spiritual family members, sagoṣṭhī. That is called sagoṣṭhī. Just like Vyāsadeva says, dhīmahi. He's offering prayer sagoṣṭhī, with all his followers and disciples. That is the process. So this flower offering will be done at twelve, and I think feasting will be in the evening. And after offering this puṣpāñjali, we can take our usual food. But the feasting may be done in the evening. Make like that. Because some audience, some members, visitors come, they should be given. And you can ask that Baka... Baka, his name is Baka?



Yamunā: Poddarji.



Prabhupāda: No, no. Poddarji...



*Gurudāsa: Bunka. Rādhe*-Shyam Bunka.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, Rādhe*-Shyam. And some others. And we can. You can invite... Dr. Rao is not... His brothers and his wife, and anyone we have made friends in the meantime, some of them.



Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, where should we place the picture?



Prabhupāda: Oh, there.



Haṁsadūta: This big picture. On the altar? Or next to the altar?



Prabhupāda: Just so there is space.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? Where shall we serve the people?



Prabhupāda: Oh, there are so many places.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not in these rooms.



Prabhupāda: Why not this room?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And when shall it be served? After the ārati?



Prabhupāda: After ārati and little talk, that's all.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we serve prasādam. And how many men would you say we should prepare for? One hundred?



Prabhupāda: That you make arrangement. You know how many people are coming. Why you are asking me?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So ordinary prasādam at noontime and feasting prasādam...



Prabhupāda: Feasting means puri and halavā and a vegetable and a chutney. That's all. Four things. Make simple.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Prabhupāda? Do you want us to offer feast to your Guru Mahārāja at noontime? A special plate of feast?



*Prabhupāda: Not a special plate. The process is that whatever we offer to the Deity, that is offered to guru. And guru offers to his guru. In this way goes to Kṛṣṇa. We don't directly offer Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. No. We have no right. Neither He accepts in that way. The pictures of the ācāryas, why there are? Actually, one has to offer the plate to his guru, and he'll offer his guru, he offers his guru, his guru. In this way it will go to Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. You cannot directly approach Kṛṣṇa or other subordinates to Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So may we offer you a special feasting?



Prabhupāda: As you do, that is all right. The process is this. Not you or you. That is the process. Then, all right. (end)





710215BA.GOR

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta

Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Appearance Day, Evening

-

Gorakhpur, February 15, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, my spiritual master, his advent day today. In 1922, I was at that time very much engaged in Congress activity. I was very much devout follower of Mahātmā Gandhi, and at that time, I was manager also in a very big chemical concern in Calcutta. Perhaps you may know, Dr. Bose's laboratory. One of my friends-he's still living, Śrī Narendranath Mullik-he informed me that "One saintly person has come. Let us go and see." At that time I was young man, and I did not care for very much about so-called saintly persons. Because in our house, my father used to receive so many sannyāsīs, but some of them were not very to the standard, and due to my association with college friends, younger days, I lost my faith practically, although I was born in a Vaiṣṇava family. My father was a pure Vaiṣṇava. From my childhood, he gave me Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa Deity for worshiping. A ratha... I was playing with my boyfriends, Ratha-yātrā, Ḍola, like that. My father encouraged. So I was trained up in this line, but in my youthful age, when I was college student, gradually, by their bad association or something, gradually, I lost my activities. But when this friend, Mr. Mullik, took me to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, he immediately asked me that, "You are educated young boys. Why don't you take up Lord Caitanya's message and preach in the Western world?" In the very first sight, he told me. At that time, I argued with him that "We are dependent nation, and who is going to hear about our message?" So he defeated my argument. (aside:) There is no necessity of closing. Yes. He defeated my argument. He was learned scholar. What I was? I was still boy. So I agreed (chuckles) that I was defeated. So after finishing our visit with Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, I got some impression that "Here is a person who has taken Lord Caitanya's message very seriously. Now it will be preached." My friend asked my opinion, that "What is your opinion?" So I gave this opinion, that "Here is a person who has taken Lord Caitanya's movement very seriously, and now it will be preached."



So that was in 1922. Then, in 1923, I left Calcutta on business account, and I started my business at Allahabad. But I was always thinking of my Guru Mahārāja, although I was that time not initiated. But the impression was there. I was thinking, "I met a very nice saintly person." So in this way, I passed from 1923 to 1928, I think. Then during Kumbhamelā... (child making noise) Stop that noise he's making. In 1928 my Guru Mahārāja, along with other disciples, came to Allahabad for starting their branch there. So some gentlemen known to me might have told them that "The proprietor of such and such business, Prayāga Pharmacy, he's a very nice gentleman. He can help you in so many ways." So they came to me, and I saw the same saintly persons whom I met 1922. I was very glad to receive. In this way, my connection was more intimate with my Guru Mahārāja. And in 1936, or 1933, I was initiated officially, although I was initiated 1922. But officially, I was initiated in 1933, although from 1922 to 1933 I was always thinking of His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja. So in 1936, he was to pass away by 31st December. So I do not know... Out of my own accord, I wrote him one letter that "Guru Mahārāja, you have got many disciples. Some of them are directly serving you. I could not do so. I am a householder. So if you give me some direct service to you, it will be very kind of you." So he replied that letter, that "You try to preach in English language. Then the persons who will be instructed by you and both yourself will be benefited." Again, he said the same thing which he ordered me in 1922 at the first sight. Then there... He passed away 1936, 31st December.

Then there were other Godbrothers. I consulted him that "Guru Mahārāja said like this. What can I do?" So they also encouraged me. I was writing. There was a paper, Harmonist. Then, by their desires, I started this Back to Godhead in 1944. That was also started on his advent day, this advent day. Back to Godhead was started. Yes. There was a meeting, and many friends came, and we first started this Back to Godhead on his advent day, this advent day, 1944. So our paper, Back to Godhead, the advent day is also today. Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Doubly auspicious.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So at that time, there was no sale of Back to Godhead. I was publishing about one thousand copies and distributing. So there was no income. I was spending three hundred, four hundred rupees from my pocket. At that time, I had income. Then, gradually... I wanted to remain as a gṛhastha and preach, but Guru Mahārāja did not like this idea. I could understand. Sometime I was dreaming that he was calling me, and I was horrified that "I'll have to go away from home." (laughter) So at last it happened so that I left my home in 1950 and became a vānaprastha. I was living sometimes here and there. In 1959 I took sannyāsa. But that Back to Godhead was going on. Then there was some inner dictation that "This paper, Back to Godhead, I am publishing, people are taking." Some friend advised me that "Why don't you write some books? That will be nice." So then I began to translate Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. And because I left home, so practically I had no income. With this Bhāgavatam, er, Back to Godhead, I was selling and I was some way or other maintaining. And whatever little money I had, that was finished.



*Then, when I wrote book, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam First Canto was finished. So I approached the Bhāijī of... Perhaps Mātājī knows this. (chuckles) In 1962. So I asked him that "You take this publication." So I am very much obliged to Bhāijī. He said that "Our English printing is not very efficient. You can get this book published from elsewhere. I shall partly help you." So he helped me with some money from the Dalmia Trust, and I first of all published my first part of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then I published second part also. There was sale. Then there was no necessity of money. I was getting money by selling Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everyone appreciated. Even the, your American Embassy here, they purchased eighteen copies, and they gave me open order that "Whenever this Bhāgavata will be published next part, subsequent parts, this is open order, eighteen copies, each part." That order is still there.

*So after publishing three parts of readings(?), then automatically, Guru Mahārāja gave me indication that "Now you can start for America." So some way or other, in 1965 I went to America, with great difficulty. But I took about two hundred sets of books. The customs clearance was done, I told them that "Oh, I am taking these books for distribution. Not for sale." Anyway, they passed, and with these books I reached America. And I was maintaining myself by selling these books for one year. There was no friend, and I was living in apartment with great difficulty. Still, the whole, I mean to say, stock, and my typewriter, my tape recorder*-everything was stolen. In this way, I became very much depressed, and I was going to the shipping company, "When the next ship is going for, going to India?" So they gave me such and such date. Then I thought, "Let me wait for some time more. Then I shall return back." I had return ticket, of course. There was no difficulty.

*In this way, 1966, by selling these books, I had only $200, and I dared to take one apartment and storefront. Storefront one $125 per month, and apartment $75. So I had only $200 dollars. So I advanced him $200. I did not know how to pay next month's rent. So I started in 1966, lecturing in a storefront and living in that apartment in 26 Second Avenue. Then gradually, these boys, American boys and girls, began to come. And then I started my kīrtana in Tompkinson Square. More and more, these younger Americans, they came to me, and things were organized. Then I registered this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society under religious act of New York in 1966, and gradually people took interest. People means the younger section. All the boys and girls, they were from sixteen... Not all sixteen, but there were sixteen. Kṛṣṇa dāsa was at that time sixteen years old. And... Between twenty to thirty. Only, I think, Keith-now Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja*-he was at that time twenty-nine. Hayagrīva was, I think, twenty-nine. So in this way... This Hayagrīva, I met him on the street. After renting the apartment and storefront, when I was returning, this Hayagrīva, Professor Howard Wheeler, he was philosophically minded. So he asked me, "Swamijī, are you coming from India?" So I told, "Yes, I am coming from India." So, "Are you interested in Indian philosophy?" "Yes, sir." "So why don't you come? I have taken one storefront and apartment." So I came back. I showed him, "Here is my storefront and apartment. You come in the evening." So... (Hindi)

So the Hayagrīva and Kīrtanānanda, Keith, and some other boys, I think, Satsvarūpa...

Pradyumna: Ravīndra Svarūpa?



Prabhupāda: Ravīndra, yes, yes, he was there.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mukunda.



*Prabhupāda: Mukunda. In this way, five or six students used to come. Gradually, it developed. Then we started next branch in San Francisco, next branch in Montreal, next branch in Buffalo, Boston. In this way... Now we have got forty*-five branches. So practically, we began work from 1968. '66 I started, but... And '67 I became very much sick. So I came back to India, and again I went there in 1968. Practically, this propaganda work began vigorously from 1968. So from 1968, '69, '70, and this, '71. So three, four years, all these branches have grown up, and now practically, throughout the whole continent, Europe and America, they know what is Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Due it to our propaganda. Just like these boys. You have seen they are chanting and dancing. We send street saṅkīrtana even the most busiest quarter of New York, Fifth Avenue. And they go. The American boys, they are very daring. Sometimes police arrest them. And police is not harassing. The public and police, both, they are now sympathetic, that "Here is a movement which is actually genuine and very beneficial to our people." They are sympathetic. And even some of the Christian priests, they are also very sympathetic. They say that "These boys, American boys, they are our boys. They're so nice that they're mad after God, but we could not give them. Swamijī has given them." So they appreciate. Actually, these boys, they come from Christian family, Jewish family. There are many churches in America. I was surprised. When I first went to Butler, that's a small county, but I saw there about dozen of churches. So I thought the American people are very religiously-minded. And actually so. The history of the American people, mostly they came from England for this religious purpose. So they migrated in America for being religiously advanced.



So American people, I very much appreciate them. They are religious. They have got very good potency for understanding God consciousness. That is my opinion. And I do not know why I was inclined to go to America. It was also Kṛṣṇa's desire. Because I thought that "If this movement, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement... " Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that

*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



That is His prediction, that "As many towns and villages are there on the surface of the globe, everywhere, this message of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and Lord Caitanya's name will be there." So I thought that "I should go to America. If the American people take it seriously, then other people will take it." So actually, that is happening. These boys are so enthusiastic in preaching that on my word, they are going any part of the world. Any part of the world. They are prepared to go any part of the world. And just now I received one letter from my disciple Śrīmān Upendra dāsa. He does not know Hindi, and in the Fiji Island there are many Indians, but still, he is making propaganda. He's simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra door to door. They are also husband and wife. And people are very much appreciating.



*So my Guru Mahārāja's desire and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prediction is now being fulfilled. At least, it has begun to be fulfilled. So it is a genuine movement, authorized movement, and India's original culture. So our appeal to the Indian people, that "You should take seriously about this movement and try to cooperate with us." That will be glorification for Indian culture. At the present moment, India is known as very poor, poverty*-stricken country. People are under impression that "They are beggars. They have got nothing to give. They simply come here to beg." Actually, our ministers go there and, for some begging purpose: "Give us rice, give us wheat, give us money, give us soldiers." That is their business. But this movement, for the first time, India is giving something to them. It is not a begging propaganda; it is giving propaganda. Because they are hankering after this substance, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have enjoyed enough of this material consciousness. The material consciousness means to enjoy sex life and drink and have sufficient money. These three items, they have got sufficient, immense. There are... So far material comforts, oh, there is no conception in India how they are materially comfortable. Their roads, their cars, their machines... You cannot imagine how American roads are there. There are freeways. In America, there are freeways: without any stoppage you can run your car in seventy mile speed, and four cars going up and four cars going down. And road just like velvet. (laughter) Our roads... So there is no comparison of their materially advancement. So I always... When I run in some freeway... These boys run our cars. And you'll be very pleased that in each and every temple we have got at least four cars, nice. Especially one car for me and two cars for carrying them for saṅkīrtana movement. Very good arrangement. Better than any temple in India. If you go sometimes... I request you to go. But one condition: that you have to become Life Member. (laughter) But if you go, will be very much pleased in our temples. And this Dr. Rao... Perhaps you know, he is a professor in your Gorakhpur University. He was a research scholar, atomic research scholar. His wife is sitting here. So he's still. So he was very much captivated with the temple worship, and there he became my disciple.

*So our temple is very nice. Just like this temple, you see practically how they are managing. Here, of course, we have no facility. But in other temples we have got very nice decorated. There is chandelier and... If you see, we have got pictures. It is very nice. So this movement is increasing, and our branches are increasing, practically, every month one branch. And these boys are doing very enthusiastically. So why not spread this movement in India? It is India's culture. Why Indians are lacking? That is my... I have brought them to show you example. This is a genuine movement, Kṛṣṇa. People are harassed, "Where is God?" Kṛṣṇa, here is God. Why don't you take Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. And Kṛṣṇa's order is there in the Bhagavad*-gītā: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām... [Bg. 18.65]. Why you are misusing this Bhagavad-gītā? You take it very seriously, and let there be a successful world movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And people will be happy. Actually, that is the peace formula.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



Śānti means to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God, as the supreme enjoyer. Here, in the material world, everyone wants to be enjoyer. That is not possible. Not everyone is enjoyer; *everyone is servant. But his misconception is that "I am enjoyer." That is called māyā, illusion. He's not enjoyer. He's servant. So Kṛṣṇa therefore says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Sarva-dharmān, we have created some dharma. Some dharma is for lording it over the material nature. Karmīs. The karmīs are trying to lord it over the material nature, all resources. Working hard, day and night, how to lord it over the material world. This is one dharma. Another dharma, when the karmī's frustrated because he cannot enjoy... Because he is not enjoyer. Artificially, he is trying to enjoy. Then, when he's frustrated, then he says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The brahma is satya, and this world is false." Then he becomes a sannyāsī, a renouncer. But he cannot live in that renouncement platform. And then he again comes back to this material world and engages himself in some philanthropic work: "Let us open hospital. Let us open schools and college..." If the brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā... If the world is mithyā, false, why you are again, a sannyāsī, you are coming again back to this platform? That means he's not satisfied in so-called brahma satyam. Practically, he has no realization of Brahman. Therefore he comes back again. And that is, I mean to say, indicated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Persons who are thinking that "I have become liberated. I have become Nārāyaṇa. I have become God. I have become Brahman." Brahman, everyone is Brahman. That's a fact. But there is another Param Brahman. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]-Kṛṣṇa.



*So the Māyāvādī philosophers, they mistake that "Param Brahman or myself*-all the same." No. That is not the fact. Therefore, without having shelter of the Param Brahman, he falls down again in this material world. Ārūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta yuṣmad aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because he has no information of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he falls down again to the material platform. So just like pendulum, the clock pendulum, tock, tock, tock-sometimes he's renouncer and sometimes he's enjoyer. Sometimes he's accepting... For example... Don't take it otherwise. Just like our national father, he renounced everything. But renounced for what? Greater enjoyment, that his countrymen will be happy. "The Britishers will go away, and we shall get independence, and we shall be enjoyer." You see? So this renouncement or that... Again, renouncement for enjoyment. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say "Renounce this whole..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagan mithyā. "But I want to be one with that Supreme." That is for greater enjoyment. "I have failed to enjoy this world even after becoming prime minister or big man. Now I'll become God."

*So this kind of philosophy will not make you happy. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. We have created dharma in two categories: one for enjoyment and one for renouncement. Both these things have to be given up. Neither enjoyment, nor renouncement. Then what is this philosophy? The philosophy is that you cannot renounce anything. Because what is the value of your renouncement? You haven't got anything. Everything belongs to God. So what you can renounce? Similarly, what you can enjoy if everything belongs to God? Īśāvasya. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ [Bg. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the enjoyer. I am the proprietor." So if Kṛṣṇa is proprietor, if Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, then how you can renounce? The proprietor is somebody else, so what is the value of your renouncement? You are sitting in this room. While going away, if you say, "I renounce this room," what is the meaning of this renouncement? When this room belonged to you? You have come here for some time and sitting here for one or two hours. That does not mean you possess it. Similarly, we come here empty-handed; *we leave here, say, fifty years or hundred years. When I become proprietor? This is another māyā, renouncement. As enjoyment is another māyā, similarly, renouncement. So we have to give up this renouncement or enjoyment. We have to take the real position, that "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God. We have simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is bhakti*-yoga. That will give you actual peace. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer. You simply supply ingredients of His enjoyment; *then you'll be happy. Because He is enjoyer. And bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. And He is the proprietor. So this attitude... Of course, they may criticize that "The bhaktas, the Vaiṣṇavas, they have got slave mentality." Some so-called philosopher remarked like that. But that is not slave mentality. That is the actual position. That we get information from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We are eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. And mukti means svarūpenāvasthitiḥ. When you are situated as servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is mukti. And so long you are falsely claiming that "I am enjoyer, I am proprietor," that is māyā. That is our philosophy. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for that. We are... [break]

*...that this movement is not new. It was long, long ago started. Even before five thousand years, when Kṛṣṇa spoke this philosophy to Arjuna, He said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Formerly, He spoke to Vivasvān, the sun*-god. Manu. Manu understood this philosophy from Vivasvān. That means four hundred millions of years ago. So it is not a new movement. It is very old. Just like Kṛṣṇa is very old. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam [Bs. 5.33]. Purāṇa means very old. Purāṇa means very old. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca: at the same time, very youthful. Similarly, this movement is very, very old, but it appears very fresh. Because it is spiritual, it is ever-fresh. So you take to this movement very seriously, and all of you will be very happy. That is our request. We are presenting this movement all over the world, and anyone who has taken, he is happy. But one must be sincere and serious. Then it will act.

Thank you very much.

Haṁsadūta: The preceding lecture was recorded on February 15, the evening of the appearance day of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Gosvāmī Mahārāja Prabhupāda, at 3 Kṛṣṇa Niketana, in Gorakhpur, Uttar Pradesh. (end)





750302BA.ATL

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta

Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Appearance Day, Lecture

-

Atlanta, March 2, 1975



Prabhupāda: Today is the most auspicious day, 101 years ago, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he appeared on this day. So Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura is gaura-śakti. Gaura-śakti means empowered, empowered by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He wanted His mission to be broadcast... (aside:) What is that sound? ...all over the world. He desired:



*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



Pṛthivīte, all over the world, as many towns and villages are there, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu predicted that His mission will spread. This prediction was made by Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally five hundred years ago.



*So perhaps my Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, attempted to fulfill the desire of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And sometimes in the year 1918, he was brahmacārī, and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, his material father, he wanted... Actually, he wanted, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura... Of course, everyone wanted. But he wrote one small book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Teachings and Precepts of Lord Caitanya, in 1896. And he presented that book to the McGill University in Canada. And he very much desired that the foreigners, especially Americans, would join this movement. That was his desire in 1896. And then, in 1918, my Guru Mahārāja started with this mission one institution known as Gauḍīya Math. Perhaps some of you know the name, Gauḍīya Math. And he was trying to spread this message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and by chance or by prediction, as you think, I was taken to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura by one of my friends. I did not want to go there, but he forcibly took me there. Yes. And he ordered me that "You preach the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu in English language. This is very much essential." So on the first meeting he told me like that. That was my first meeting with him. So at that time I was in favor of Gandhi's movement. So I said that "We are not independent*-subjugated. Who will hear about our message?" So Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura refuted my argument. I was very much pleased. I had so many talks. But I was very much pleased to be defeated, that "This so-called nationalism or any ism, they are all temporary. Real need is the self-realization."

*So I was convinced. But at that time, although he wanted me to immediately join him and spread this movement, so at that time I was a married man, young man. I was married in 1918. And I got a son also at that time, 1921. And in 1922 I met him. At that time I was manager in a big chemical factory. So I thought that "I am married man. I have got so many responsibilities. How I can join immediately? It is not my duty." Of course, that was my mistake. I should have joined immediately. (laughter) I should have taken the opportunity immediately. But māyā is there. So I thought like that. So that's a long history. Then in 1954, no, not 1954, 1968, when I was fifty*-four years old... Nineteen fifty-four, yes. Nineteen fifty-four, I was at that time fifty-eight years. So I left home, and I was living alone. Then, 1958, I took sannyāsa, and then I decided to take up the responsibility of my Guru Mahārāja. I thought that "My other Godbrothers are trying, so I am not capable to do it. They are better situated." But somehow or other, they could not do very much, appreciative activities, in this connection.

*So when I was seventy years old I decided, "Now I must do and execute the order of my Guru Mahārāja. And thus this movement was started in 1965 from New York. And I was not very much hopeful because it is very difficult task, just opposite the European and Western culture. I came... When I first came, I had no money. So I got a free passage through some Indian steam navigation company. So I came by ship. So when I was on the ship at Boston port, Commonwealth port, I was thinking that "I have come here. I do not know what is the purpose because how the people will accept this movement? They are differently educated, and as soon as I will say, 'So, my dear sir, you have to give up meat*-eating and illicit sex and no intoxication and gambling,' they will say, 'Please go home.' " (laughter) Because that was the experience of one of my Godbrother. He went to London, and he had the opportunity to talk with one big man, Marquis of Zetland. Marquis of Zetland was formerly governor of Bengal. At that time I was student. He was Scotsman, and I was student of the Scottish Churches' College. So he came to see our college, and he was standing in front of me in the second-year class. So he was very nice, good gentleman. So he proposed to my Godbrother, "Whether you can make me a brāhmaṇa?" So my Godbrother proposed, "Yes, we can make anyone brāhmaṇa provided you follow this principle: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling." So that Lord Zetland immediately replied, "Impossible." (laughter) So I was thinking that "I will propose something which is impossible. Anyway, let me try."

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!



Prabhupāda: So now, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu and in the presence of my Guru Mahārāja, you are so nice boys and girls. So in front of Caitanya Mahāprabhu you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you are taking part in it very seriously. So my Guru Mahārāja will be very, very much pleased upon you and bless you with all benefits.



*So he wanted this, and he is not... It is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding. Even ordinary living being, he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. And what to speak of such exalted, authorized personality like Bhaktisiddhānta. He is seeing. I never feel that I am alone. Of course, when I came to your country without any friend, without any means... Practically, just like a vagabond I came. But I had full faith that "My Guru Mahārāja is with me." I never lost this faith, and that is fact. There are two words, vāṇī and vapuḥ. Vānī means words, and vapuḥ means this physical body. So vāṇī is more important than the vapuḥ. Vapuḥ will be finished. This is material body. It will be finished. That is the nature. But if we keep to the vāṇī, to the words of spiritual master, then we remain very fixed up. It doesn't matter. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā. It was spoken five thousand years ago. But if you keep to the words of Kṛṣṇa, then it is always fresh and guiding. Not that because Arjuna personally listened to Kṛṣṇa about the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, therefore he knew it. That is not the fact. If you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you should know that Kṛṣṇa is present before you in His words in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is called spiritual realization. It is not mundane historical incidences. If we keep...

*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



*If you don't keep in touch with the original link, then it will be lost. And if you keep touch with the original link, then you are directly hearing Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's representative, spiritual master, if you keep always intact, in link with the words and instruction of the superior authorities, then you are always fresh. This is spiritual understanding. Na jāyate na mrīyate vā kadācit nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo [Bg. 2.20]. Purāṇaḥ means very old. Just like Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Being. He must be very old because He is the original person. But the Brahma*-saṁhitā says, advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣa nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. Purāṇa-puruṣa, the oldest person, but you will find Him nava-yauvanaṁ ca, always a fresh youth. That is God. God is not a material, that it gets old. The body gets old.



*So you are hearing this philosophy daily. Try to understand more and more. We have got so many books. And this is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and, by disciplic succession, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, then my spiritual master. Then we are trying our level best. Similarly, you will also try your level best on the same principle. Then it will go on. Same principle. It doesn't matter whether one is born in India or outside India. No. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma, "As many towns and cities and villages are there," He did not say it to make a farce. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So sometimes I am very much criticized that I am making foreigners a brāhmaṇa. The caste brāhmaṇas in India, they are very much against me. But this is not fact. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that all over the world His message will be broadcast, does it mean that it will be simply a cinema show? No. He wanted that everyone should become perfect Vaiṣṇava. That is His purpose. It is not to make a farce, some lecturing and..., or some mutual praising society. No. It is Krishna Society. Everyone who will join this Krishna Society movement, he is more than a brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa, what is brāhmaṇa? Brāhmaṇa is also material. A devotee is more than brāhmaṇa. The brahminical culture is included already. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Absolute Truth, Brahman." He is brāhmaṇa. But that is not very fixed up. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. Brahman is impersonal effulgence, and then further progress, realization of the localized aspect, Paramātmā, Antaryāmī, and finally, understanding the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, Supreme Person, that is the final understanding.

So people cannot understand that how the Supreme, the origin of everything, can be a person. That is their difficulty. Because they are thinking, "A person, God? How it is possible. God is great, and He is the creator of everything. How a person can do that?" Yes. That is the Vedic version.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



He is the cause of Brahman. He is the cause of Supersoul. So ordinary man cannot understand. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣiṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. It requires Kṛṣṇa's grace to understand Him.



*So try to receive Kṛṣṇa's grace through the disciplic succession, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you will understand everything. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. This is the process, Vedic process. One should have unflinching faith in God and spiritual master. Don't jump over God, crossing the spiritual master. Then it will be failure. You must go through. We are observing Vyāsa*-pūjā ceremony, the birth anniversary of our Guru Mahārāja. Why? We cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without spiritual master. That is bogus. If anyone wants to understand Kṛṣṇa, jumping over the spiritual master, then immediately he becomes a bogus. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. That is Vedic injunction. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa without going through His most confidential servant. This is the meaning of this Vyāsa-pūjā. You cannot surpass. If you think that you have become very learned and very advanced, now you can avoid the spiritual master and you understand Kṛṣṇa, that is the bogus. That is the meaning of this Vyāsa-pūjā ceremony. We should always pray, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Yasya prasādād, only by the grace of spiritual master we can achieve the grace or mercy of Kṛṣṇa. This is the meaning of this Vyāsa-pūjā, offering obeisances by paramparā system.

*So you have taken a very nice line of activities, spiritual activities. Of course, as far as possible, we have tried to give you instruction, books. But remain always faithful to the spiritual master and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life. Any other so*-called understanding, that is simply waste of time because we are under the grip of the material nature. You may be very learned scholar. You may be a fool. It doesn't matter. You are under the laws of material nature. So before finishing this small span of life... We have got this human form of life. It will be finished, as the cats' and dogs' life also finished. But if we try through the guru and Vaiṣṇava, then, we can achieve in this life the full success, not failure like cats' and dogs' life. That is the opportunity. So as far as possible, we are trying to lead you in this line, and you kindly follow. Then your life will be successful. That is the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He wanted to deliver these fallen souls, the conditioned souls rotting in this material world. So Kṛṣṇa Himself... Kṛṣṇa comes Himself, Kṛṣṇa sends His devotees, Kṛṣṇa comes as devotee-just to execute this mission to reclaim the fallen souls from the clutches of illusory energy, material world.

Thank you very much. (end)



760221BA.MAY

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta

Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Appearance Day, Lecture

-

Māyāpur, February 21, 1976



Prabhupāda: Today, the auspicious day of our predecessor spiritual master, Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Aṣṭottara-śata Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda. Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's mission... Apart from his life, we are especially stressing on the mission of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. This place, Māyāpur, was formerly known as Miyapura. Mostly it is inhabited by the Muhammadans. Some way or other it converted into the name of Miyapura instead of Māyāpur. Still, people are very much doubtful where is the birth site of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was researching to find out the actual place. So under the direction of Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, this present Yogapīṭha was ascertained to be the birth site of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in the beginning wanted to develop this place very gloriously, befitting the holy name of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he started this movement of developing Māyāpur. He could not finish it, so it was handed down to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. So under his effort, assisted by his disciples, this place has gradually developed, and our attempt is also to develop this place. Therefore we have named this temple Māyāpur Chandrodaya. We have got great ambition to develop this place nicely and gloriously, and fortunately we are now connected with foreign countries, especially with the Americans. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's great desire was that the Americans would come here and develop this place and they would chant and dance along with the Indians.



So his dream as well as Caitanya Mahāprabhu's foretelling,

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu desired that all Indians to take part.



*bhārata bhūmite manuṣya*-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra.

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para*-upakāra. Para-upakāra means to do good to others. Of course, in the human society there are many different branches of doing good to others-welfare societies-but more or less... Why more or less? Almost completely they think that this body is our self and to do some good to the body is welfare activities. But actually that is not welfare activities because in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand very clearly, antavanta ime dehaḥ nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. This body is antavat. Anta means it will be finished. Everyone knows his body is not permanent; *it will be finished. Anything material-bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]*-it has a date of birth, it stays for some time, and then it annihilates. So the spiritual education begins from the understanding that "I am not this body." This is spiritual education. In the Bhagavad-gītā the first instruction given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna is this, that we are not this body. Because Arjuna was speaking from the bodily platform, so Kṛṣṇa chastised him that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are lamenting on the subject matter on which no learned man laments." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvam.



*So such kind of welfare activity concerning the body, like hospital and so many other things, they are good undoubtedly, but the ultimate goal is to see the interest of the soul. That is ultimate goal. That is the whole Vedic instruction. And Kṛṣṇa begins from this point. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. So when Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to do some para*-upakāra...

*bhārata bhūmite manuṣya*-janma haila yāra

*(manuṣya) janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



These welfare activities did not mean that welfare to this body. It was meant for the soul, the same thing as Kṛṣṇa wanted to impress upon Arjuna, that "You are not this body. You are soul." Antavanta ime dehaḥ nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So real welfare activity means to see to the interest of the soul. So what is the interest of the soul? The interest of the soul is that the soul is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, God. Just like small spark of fire is part and parcel of the big fire, similarly, we living entities, we are very minute, small spark of the Supreme Brahman, Parabrahman, or Kṛṣṇa. So as the spark within the fire looks very beautiful, the fire also looks beautiful, and the spark also looks beautiful, but as soon as the sparks fall down from the fire, it becomes extinguished.



So our condition is that the... Our present position is that we are fallen down from the whole fire, Kṛṣṇa. This is explained in a simple Bengali language:

kṛṣṇa bhūliyā jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pasate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*Māyā means darkness, ignorance. So this example is very nice. The sparks of the fire dancing very nicely with fire, it is also illuminating. But as soon as it fall down on the ground, it becomes cinder, black cinder, no more fiery quality. Similarly, we are meant for dancing and playing and walking and living with Kṛṣṇa. That is our real position. That is the Vṛndāvana. Everyone... Everyone is connected with Kṛṣṇa. There the trees, there the flowers, water, the cows, the calves, the cowherd boys, or elderly cowherd men, Nanda Mahārāja, other persons of his age, then Yaśodāmayī, mother, then gopīs*-in this way Vṛndāvana life, Vṛndāvana picture. Kṛṣṇa comes with full Vṛndāvana picture, and He demonstrates His Vṛndāvana life, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu, just to attract us, that "You are trying to enjoy in this material world, but here you cannot enjoy because you are eternal. You cannot get eternal life here. So you come to Me. You come to Me." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (aside:) Please ask them to wait for prasādam. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. This is the invitation. Mām eti: "He comes back to home, back to Godhead." This is the whole instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And at the end He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Why you are bothering yourself, manufacturing so many plans to adjust material life? That is not possible. Here it is not possible. Here so long you are in material association, then you have to change the body. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni... [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti-stho. What is that verse? Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'pi...



*Hṛdayānanda: Bhuñjate prakṛti*-jān guṇān.



*Prabhupāda: Ha. Bhuñjate prakṛti*-jān guṇān. So long the living entity is in this material world, he has to associate with the different modes of material nature. The same example. Just like the fire spark falls down on the ground. So ground, they have got different situation. One situation is dry grass, one situation is wet grass, and one situation is simply ground. So similarly, there are three position: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So sattva-guṇa means if the spark falls down on the dry grass, then it ignites the grasses. So in the sattva-guṇa, prakāśa, this fiery quality is demonstrated. But if it falls down on the water, wet ground, then it is completely extinguished. Three stages. Similarly, when we come down to this material world, if we associate with the sattva-guṇa, then there is some hope of spiritual life. And if we are rajo-guṇa there is no hope, and tamo-guṇa, there is no hope. Rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāva kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. Rajas-tamaḥ. If we associate with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, then our desires will be lusty and greediness. Kāma-lobhādayaś ca. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāva kāma-lobhādayaś ca. And if we increase our sattva-guṇa quality, then this kāma-lobhādaya, these two things, will not touch us. We may be little aloof from kāma-lobha. So if in the sattva-guṇa... This is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

*hṛdy antaḥ*-stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛtsatām

[SB 1.2.17]



*So we have to transcend all these three qualities, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, especially rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. If we do not try to do that, then there is no hope of spiritual salvation or liberation from the material entanglement. But in the Kali-yuga there is no practically sattva-guṇa, simply rajas, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, especially tamo-guṇa. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthaḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.



*So from this place Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu started this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, throughout whole India, and He desired that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma: "So as many towns and villages are there, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be spread." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is now in your hand. Of course, in 1922 Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he wanted me to do something in this connection. He wanted from his, all his disciples. Especially he stressed many times that "You do this. Whatever you have learned, you try to expand in English language." And in 1933, when he was in Rādhā*-kunḍa, I was at that time Bombay in connection with my business life. So I came to see him, and one friend wanted to give some land in Bombay for starting Bombay Gauḍīya Maṭha. He's my friend. So that's a long story, but I wish to narrate this, the Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī's mission. So at that time one of my Godbrother was also present. He reminded me about my friend's donation, and Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda immediately took up the land. He continued that "There is no need of establishing many temples. Better we publish some books." He said like that. He said that "We started our, this Gauḍīya Maṭha in Ultadanga. The rent was very small, and if we could gather 2 to 250 rupees, it was very nice, going on. But since this J.V. Datta(?) has given us this stone, marble stone Ṭhākurabari, our competition between the disciples have increased, so I don't like anymore. Rather, I would prefer to take out the marble stone and sell it and publish some books." So I took that point, and he also especially advised me that "If you get money, you try to publish books." So by his blessing it has become very successful by your cooperation. Now our books are being sold all over the world, and it is very satisfactory sale. So on this particular day of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's advent, try to remember his words, that he wanted that many books should be published about our philosophy and it should be given to the English-knowing public especially, because English language is now world language. We are touring all over the world. So anywhere we speak English, it is understood, except in some places. So on this day, particular on the advent of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, I'd especially request my disciples who are cooperating with me that try to publish books as many as possible and distribute throughout the whole world. That will satisfy Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu as well as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





770208BA.MAY

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta

Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's

Appearance Day, Lecture

-

Māyāpur, February 8, 1977



Pradyumna: The lecture is now, then we'll have ārati.



*Prabhupāda: So this is the one*-hundred-third birth anniversary. You may remember? One-hundred-third this is? One-hundred-third anniversary?



*Pradyumna: 1972, 1977 it is. One*-hundred-fourth. One-hundred-fifth.



*Hari-śauri: One*-hundred-fifth.



*Prabhupāda: Anyway, this is the auspicious day of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, one*-hundred-fourth?



Pradyumna: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: One*-hundred-third birth anniversary. So this is formal, one-hundred-third or, or, or -second. It is eternal. It is eternal. Just like Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described, nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā means it is going on. Just like just now it is eleven o'clock. This eleven o'clock, and when it becomes twelve o'clock noon, it does not mean that eleven o'clock is passed. Eleven o'clock is existing somewhere. In India it is eleven o'clock, somewhere else it is ten o'clock, and when in India it will be twelve o'clock that eleven o'clock will be somewhere else. Therefore one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, you take, that is going on. It is not that one is finished. That is material calculation. Material calculation, this body we have got. When this body will be finished it is finished forever. It will never come. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as finished. Nitya-līlā. Nitya-mukta. We have to understand that. In the material world, one minute's lost, it is lost forever. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given us instruction from the material point of view,



āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi

*na labhyaḥ svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ

sacen nirārthakaṁ nītaḥ

kā ca hānis tato 'dhikaḥ



Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi. Suppose I shall live fifty years or hundred years maximum. So out of them, one moment lost, it will be never returned. From our birth, when a child is born we ask the parents when the child is born. The parents say, "This child was born in the morning, ten o'clock." So if the child is born at ten o'clock and I am asking at eleven o'clock, the one hour life of the child lost. Eleven o'clock means child has already died one hour out of his one hundred years.



So for Vaiṣṇava it is not like that. It is not like that. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is material calculation: one hour lost, two hours lost, body's life is transient..., it is losing one moment, one hour. But spiritual life is different. Nityaḥ śāśvato yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. So, as Kṛṣṇa comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, but still, He appears. The same example. Just like the sun is in the sky but we see in the morning it appears; *in the evening it retires. That is defectness of our eyes. Actually the sun is always there. So similarly Vaiṣṇava, as Kṛṣṇa comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava means the confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa, he also comes for some purpose by the order of the master. So their life and Kṛṣṇa's life, it is same. There is no question of past, present, future. Nityaḥ. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So they are the same thing as the appearance and disappearance of sun. And Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, our master, spiritual master, he also came in this world to execute some mission of life or mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he executed it, and when it was required, he left this place and went to another place to do the same business. Just like the sun rises at six o'clock and seven o'clock there is six o'clock in another place, and it is eight o'clock another place. It is going on. Nitya*-līlā.

*So we have nothing to lament for disappearance. We should simply remember his activities. That is Vaiṣṇava*-you cannot understand the activities of the Vaiṣṇava, but they come, any Vaiṣṇava comes, for some particular mission. Prahlāda Mahārāja,

*naivodvije para duratyayā*-vaitaraṇyās

*tvad*-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ

*śoce tato vimukha*-cetasa (indriyārtha-)

*māyā*-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān

[SB 7.9.43]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja said to Nṛsiṁhadeva, "My Lord, I have nothing to grieve, because wherever I shall sit down, glorifying Your activities, I immediately become merged into the ocean of nectarine. So I have nothing to grieve. But one thing I am sorry, I am in grief for these vimūḍhas." Vimūḍhān. Mūḍha means rascal, and vimūḍhai, particularly rascals. Every living being within this material world, they are mūḍhas because they are forgetting their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Mūḍho nābhijānāti māṁ param avyayam. This is mūḍha. All living entities more or less, we are all mūḍhas, particularly vimūḍhān, because there are different types of living entities. Jalajā nava*-lakṣani sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati kṛmayo, species of life.



*So the evolution is going on. When we come to this stage of human form of life, here is a chance to get out of this evolutionary process. This is the chance. Asatim, caturam caiva brahma jīva*-jātesu. In the Padma Purāṇa the evolutionary theory...Not theory. It is fact. Darwin's evolutionary theory it may be, but in the Vedic literature the evolutionary theory it is existing since very, very, millions of... It is not crazy fellow's evolutionary theory. It is fact. So in this evolutionary theory, fact, we see that the, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, bahunāṁ sambhavān [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many evolution, millions of years, we get this chance of human being, to become human being. In this human form of life, if we still remain a mūḍha, then we are vimūḍhān. Vimūḍhān means, vi means viśeṣa. Here is chance. And Kṛṣṇa personally is giving his instruction to the human being. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the chance. But still, we are not accepting. Therefore vimūḍhān. Mūḍha, the cats and dogs, they cannot understand. If we give instruction to the dog, "My dear dog, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa..." But a human being, either he may be known to Kṛṣṇa or not known to Kṛṣṇa, he can be trained up. Just like in your country, in Europe and America, they did not know even what Kṛṣṇa. But since we have started this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you have become so many devotees of Kṛṣṇa. That is possible because human being. They can be trained up. So in spite of all these facilities for the human being, if he's not trained up to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is vimūḍha. He does not take the advantage. Na mām... This human form of life, he is classified as duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. He's described. He must be either of these categories. So things have degraded so low that India they're asking what is God. This is Kali-yuga. In India, where Kṛṣṇa comes personally, where Lord Rāmacandra comes, where Lord Buddha comes, where Caitanya Mahāprabhu comes, in that country now young men are asking, "What is God?" This is Kali-yuga.

*So we should not remain vimūḍha. We should become intelligent. And to make us intelligent, Kṛṣṇa comes, Kṛṣṇa's devotees come, some messenger comes. And Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura is one of the messengers of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And not only he preached, but he trained up many disciples to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. So by his grace we are also endeavoring to do something. This is called paramparā system. So we should take advantage of this Vaiṣṇava mission. As Caitanya... Prahlāda Mahārāja said, they are very anxious. Vaiṣṇava means para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpaṁbudhir yas tam, ahaṁ prapadye [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava... Our Guru Mahārāja Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he is Vaiṣṇava, cent percent Vaiṣṇava. And he was para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. This is Vaiṣṇava. He criticized nirjana bhajana. He has personally written one song, mana tumi kīsera vaiṣṇava. Nirjanera ghare pratiṣṭhāra tare, tava hari-nāma kevala kaitava. Mana tumi kīsera vaiṣṇava. He has in long song... Pratiṣṭhā... Vaiṣṇava means he doesn't want any material profit or material opulence or material reputation. He doesn't want. This is... But in the material world everyone is busy for three things-material profit, material reputation, and material adoration. This is not Vaiṣṇava's business. Vaiṣṇava never cares for all these things. Vaiṣṇava is always thinking how to do good to the suffering humanity. Lokānāṁ-hita-kāriṇau. About Six Gosvāmīs it is said, nānā-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. This is Vaiṣṇava. Nānā-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipuṇau. In the śāstra everything is there. Just like Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has given us Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu to understand what is bhakti. We have tried to translate it into English, the Nectar of Devotion. So, why? Rūpa Gosvāmī was the minister in the government of Hussain Shah. Very opulent position. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. They resigned the high post of ministership and joined Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu for pushing on and on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau.

*So Vaiṣṇava means para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They are simple thinking...There are so many politicians and humanitarians and so many. But nobody knows how to do good to others. Nobody knows. They do not know. The real fact is, as Kṛṣṇa explains Himself, that

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

mām aprāpya nivartante

*mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani (sic:)

[Bg. 9.3]



*This is the real suffering of the humanity. I especially speak humanity because in the human form of life one can actually understand what is the position, what is the value of life. The value of life one should understand that we are in the cycle of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Once we take birth and again we die. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu-darśanam [Bg. 13.9]. So one should be intelligent to understand that I am eternal. I learn from Bhagavad-gītā and Vedic literature that ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am eternal." Why I am dying? This is intelligence. This is intelligence. Otherwise cats and dogs. A dog, a cat, does not know why he is dying. Neither he knows that he is eternal. But a human being can take information from the śāstra that he is eternal and he does not die on the destruction of the body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Kṛṣṇa is giving this information. Tathā dehāntara. This is our real unhappiness. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. But if we are kept in darkness about this and simply we become busy with some superficial things, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu, durāśayā. It is durāśayā. So all these leaders, the political leaders, they do not know what is the value of life. The durāśayā, with some hope which will never be fulfilled, they are busy with that. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He knows what is the real suffering of humanity and he tries to estab...Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. Real dharma means occupation. Dharma does not mean that you believe in something. That is the description in the..., "a faith." Faith is different thing. But real dharma means the occupational duty. Just like government law. Government law. If you go on the street, you'll find "Keep to the left." There is no question of faith. You must keep on the left; *otherwise you are criminal, you'll be punished. That is dharma. The real meaning is this, that dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19], The laws given by God. That is the simple definition of dharma.



*So if we don't accept the dharma, then we'll be punished. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Dharmasya asya. Aśraddadhānāḥ. "If I have no faith in the words of God..." Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Kṛṣṇa is saying, "If you do not become devotee, if you do not think of Kṛṣṇa, then you will not get Kṛṣṇa." Remain continuously, birth after birth, forgetful of Kṛṣṇa, that is very dangerous. What is that danger? Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: again you'll be in the cycle of birth and death, birth and death, birth and death. Not that today you are Indian; you shall get the birth again as Indian. No. Today you may be Indian, prime minister; tomorrow you may be a dog in some other country. They do not know these laws.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



You are not independent. Nobody is independent. Today you maybe something; tomorrow you may be something. But you must search out your real life. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. That intelligence is given by the Vaiṣṇava. Therefore Vaiṣṇava has got a very great responsibility. My Guru Mahārāja pointed out, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura,



mana tumi kīsera vaiṣṇava?

pratiṣṭhāra tare, nirjanera ghare,

*tava hari*-nāma kevala (kaitava)



Formerly people used to know that "If I take a mala and sit down in a secluded place..." Of course, that is good; *that is not bad. But the real business of Vaiṣṇava is not for himself, but for others. Just like the example given by Rūpa Gosvāmī: nānā-śāstra*-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Lokānāṁ-hita-kāriṇau, not personal hita-kāriṇau. Personal hita-kāriṇau is not high-class Vaiṣṇava. "I shall become liberated. Let me give up everything and sit down." Sometimes that is also good, but sometimes we take it to get cheap adoration from innocent public that "Here is a Vaiṣṇava. He sits down." No. My Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he was not that type of Vaiṣṇava. That is his special gift. He wanted every one of his disciples to go and preach the cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted. Here we are in the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's country, birthplace. We should remember. Caitanya Mahāprabhu of course asked every Indian to take His mission. At least Bengalis should take Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu...What is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission?

āmāra ājnāya guru hañā, tara ei deśa

*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Even if you cannot go outside, it doesn't matter. Wherever you are, either you are here in Nabadwip or in Calcutta, anywhere, so you become a guru. Don't remain a rascal. You become a guru. "Now, how can I become a guru? I am not very educated." No! You don't require to be very highly educated rascal. Simply repeat Kṛṣṇa consciousness as Kṛṣṇa said. You become guru. Unfortunately we don't care for Kṛṣṇa's instruction. We are busy with this ism, that ism, that ism. So we should remember*-I don't wish to take much time-Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he took Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction very seriously, and he wanted his disciple to do. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also wanted that, and Bhaktisiddhānta... This Māyāpur is meant for this purpose, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world as it was desired by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma sarvatra pracāra. So the beginning is there. We are preaching all over the world and you, my dear friends from Europe and America, you have taken this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Again I shall repeat the same logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Andha means blind and paṅgu means lame. Both of them are useless. Andha cannot see, he cannot walk, and the lame man cannot walk. Andha can walk but cannot see. And the lame man can see but cannot walk. Now let them both combine together. So the whole world is suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or spiritual life. If American money and Indian culture mix together, the whole world will be benefited. That is my ambition. Take Indian culture and help with American money. The whole world will be happy. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. If the andha is taken on the shoulder... If the paṅgu is taken on the shoulder of the andha, then the lame man can give direction.



So actually this logic is coming to be true, there is now agitation. People are feeling the pressure of this movement, and in Europe and America there is opposing party. But don't be afraid. Take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously. It is not a national movement or some social movement. It is the movement to uplift the position of the whole human society. So that was the mission of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. Somehow or other we are taking it little seriously. Let all the Americans, Indians, especially young men... Don't misunderstand these Europeans and Americans C.I.A. Don't be mad, crazy fellow. They have taken Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have nothing to do with politics. And you also, young men, you also join on the basis of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and do something philanthropic for the whole human society. (end)



670323SB.SF

Jagannātha Deities Installation

*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 1.2.13-14

-

San Francisco, March 23, 1967



*Prabhupāda: Without devotion, simply we go on hearing for millions of years, oh, that will not also not earn(?). It is here... Bhaktyā śruta*-gṛhītayā. This is the process of understanding absolute knowledge. Please note these points, what are the process. First thing is that one must be faithful. Second thing is that he must be thoughtful. The third thing is that he must have knowledge. What is that knowledge? "I am not this body." And then detachment. As soon as I am convinced that I am not this body, then why should I take so much care for the body? Let me take care of my self. And as soon as these qualifications are fulfilled, then you can see within yourself what you are. Paśyanty ātmānaṁ cātmani. And all these things is on the basis of devotional service and by the process of hearing from the authoritative source. These are the qualification for understanding Absolute Truth.



Now,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*Now, it is clearly stated here that what is that Absolute Truth, because as soon as you understand Absolute Truth, then there must be a process of activity, the process of activity. Just like we do sometimes business. First of all we understand each other and make an agreement. Then there will be business procedure. And then, next stage is profit. Any way you take it... Suppose a boy and a girl agrees to get themselves married. So that is called agreement: "Yes, I shall marry you. You shall become my husband." "You shall become my wife." That is agreement. Then they should live together as a husband and wife. And the result is that they get good child, very nice child, lovely child. So everything, first there is to establish relationship. The next work is to act on that relationship. And the result*-then enjoy.



So similarly, if we understand what is Absolute Truth... The Absolute Truth is already mentioned, that "We understand the Absolute Truth in three phases: first of all, impersonal Brahman; second, localized Paramātmā, Supersoul; *and the ultimate, last, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So if you at all understand that "Supreme Personality, Godhead, is the cause of all causes. I am also one of the effects of that cause," then what is your duty? That duty is mentioned here, that ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ. The speech was being delivered by Sūta Gosvāmī amongst great sages. So he is addressing, "My dear learned brāhmaṇas." All the sages, they were brāhmaṇas. So, "My dear learned brāhmaṇas," ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, "according to the division of social system..."

*What are the division? The first*-class man is a brāhmaṇa, full of knowledge, spiritual knowledge; *the second*-class man is the administrator, maintaining the state; *and a third*-class man, economic development, mercantile people; *and fourth*-class men, they are laborer class. This is the division of the society. And there is division of spiritual advancement. What is that? That brahmacārī, the beginning of spiritual life; then gṛhastha, householder, to live just like gentleman, with responsibility with spiritual view, householder; then vānaprastha, retired life; *then sannyāsa, renounced life. These are the divisions, varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ. Varṇa means four division of the social system, and āśrama means four division of spiritual enlightenment.

*So here it is said, "My dear brāhmaṇas, learned brāhmaṇas, according to the division of the social status and spiritual status, everyone's duty is..." What is that duty? Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Everyone has got particular, specific occupational duty. A brāhmaṇa has got his occupational duty. The kṣatriya has occupational duty. Similarly, brahmacārī, householder, and retired*-everyone has got specific duty. That is mentioned in all the śāstras. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, that is mentioned, and in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is also mentioned. And one is to be understood what he is according to his quality and work, not by birth. When it is default, it is taken on the basis of birth. But actually, in the śāstras, or scripture, there is no question of birth. Anyone can become a brāhmaṇa, anyone can become a kṣatriya, anyone can become a sannyāsī, anyone can become a brahmacārī provided he acts according to the quality of the work.

*So here Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya: "Everyone has got a particular type of occupational duty, but the ultimate goal of that duty is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. If you want to make perfection of your duty, then you have to satisfy the Supreme Lord." It doesn't matter what you are. You may be a brahmacārī, you may be a householder, you may be in renounced order of life, and you may be a laborer class, you may be a brāhmaṇa, or you may be administrator. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. But your duty, your occupational service, will attain perfection when you try to satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupation. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no harm that one is born a laborer class or uneducated or one is very learned or one is born of a very high family. These material qualification has nothing to do for spiritual evolution. Spiritual evolution is that you have to satisfy with the, with your talent, with your capacity, with your work, to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is your perfection. That is your perfection. It does not mean...

*Suppose you are a businessman and you are doing some business. Now, it does not mean that because you are businessman, your perfection will be when you become a man like Rockefeller or Ford. That is not perfection. Perfection is that whether you are satisfying the Supreme Lord by your occupation. It doesn't matter what you are doing or what is your income. You will be surprised to know that Lord Caitanya had a very poor friend. In His childhood He had a poor friend. His name was Śrīdhara. His income was daily, in those days, five hundred years before, his income was, say, about five cent daily. And not even that. Suppose five cent. So out of that five cent, he would spend two half cent for gaṅgā*-pūjā, for worshiping mother Ganges. And with the balance two half cent, he will maintain his family. So similarly there are many instances. So it doesn't matter what is your income, five cent or five hundred dollars. You must try to satisfy according to your capacity, the Supreme Lord. That should be.

*There are many examples. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī is the direct disciple of Lord Caitanya. When he retired from his service*-he was government minister-oḥ, he brought home golden coins, full, a boat full, full of gold. Now, just imagine how much the amount was. But he divided like this: fifty percent of his accumulated wealth, he spent for Kṛṣṇa. There are many expenditure for Kṛṣṇa. If you ask, "How we can spend for Kṛṣṇa?" this society for Kṛṣṇa conscious give you very nice program. If you have got millions of dollars to spend, we can give you program. Unfortunately, we are not getting. But our program is ready. For Kṛṣṇa consciousness we can spend any amount of money. So Rūpa Gosvāmī, he gave fifty percent to the persons who are working for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Twenty-five percent he gave to his relatives, because they expect something. If I am a family man, I have got my children, my wife. So they expect something. So they must be given-but twenty-five percent, not all. And twenty-five percent he kept for himself, so that in times of emergency... Because as soon as my money is gone out of my hand, I have no control. We have recently lost six thousand dollars. As soon as the check is out of the hand... Not here, in our New York. So as soon the check is out of hand, now it is gone. It is gone. Therefore we should keep something, because, after all, we have got this material body. Either I pay to Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa consciousness spent, that cannot be returned. Now, if I give to my relatives something, that is also not returned. Then what to me if I am in danger, if I am in some difficulty? So something must be kept for yourself. So this is the process. So everyone should try.

*Now, it is clearly stated that svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhiḥ. Saṁsiddhiḥ means the complete perfection. Complete perfection is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Now, how to make satisfaction of the Supreme Lord? That is stated here:

tasmād ekena manasā

bhagavān sātvatāṁ patiḥ

śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca

dhyeyaḥ pūjyaś ca nityadā

[SB 1.2.14]



The satisfaction is how you can satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is also stated here. What is that? Ekena manasā: "with one attention," not diverting your attention to so many things. Simply, I mean to say, fixing your attention on the Supreme Lord. Tasmād ekena manasā bhagavān. Now, here is... The Bhāgavata does not say brahmeti paramātmeti. The Absolute Truth is Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. That is mentioned. But here, when I have to give attention, then must be the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise where I am going to give attention? If the impersonal feature, if I think impersonal feature, oh, it is very difficult where to fix up my mind. Therefore impersonal feature, Brahman, is not said. Ekena manasā. Then Supersoul. Supersoul is within you. That is understood by meditation. Impersonal Absolute Truth is understood by philosophical process, speculation, and the Supersoul is understood by meditation. So, and Bhagavān, Bhagavān is practical.



*Just like we are interested with Kṛṣṇa. Here is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's form is there, Kṛṣṇa's color is there, Kṛṣṇa's helmet is there, Kṛṣṇa's advice is there, Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, Kṛṣṇa's sound is there-everything Kṛṣṇa. Everything Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. But if you turn your attention to the impersonal and to the Supersoul, it is very difficult. It is very difficult. You cannot fix your attention to the impersonal. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām: [Bg. 12.5] "Those who are attached to the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth, their business is very troublesome, very troublesome," not like that, chanting, dancing and eating. Oh, it is very nice. That is very troublesome-speculate, "This is not, this is not. This is not Brahman. This is not Brahman." Go on. And the result is also achieved*-by working so hard for many, many lives you'll have to come to Kṛṣṇa.

*Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. This morning we have been discussing this śloka. So here also Bhāgavata says that tasmād ekena manasā: "With your one attention," tasmād ekena manasā bhagavān sātvatāṁ patiḥ, "you have to fix your mind on the Supreme Personality of Godhead," sātvatāṁ patiḥ, sātvatāṁ patiḥ, "the master of the devotees." Which bhagavān? There are many bhagavān, because nowadays we have manufactured many bhagavāns. But here it is said that bhagavān means sātvatāṁ patiḥ, who is accepted by great devotees, just like Brahmā, Śiva, and not that by ordinary public one has been accepted, "Oh, here is incarnation of God." No. So that God is Kṛṣṇa. That conception of God is Kṛṣṇa, because in the Bhagavad*-gītā you find mattaḥ nānyat parataram asti. Kṛṣṇa says that "There is nothing beyond Me. There is nothing beyond Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the origin of everything." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Everything emanates from Me." Iti matvā: "One who knows this," iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ, "those who are actually learned, he knows it, and therefore he becomes My devotee."

*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā also it is stated, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. There are many gods, but who is the Supreme God? The Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Paramaḥ means the Supreme. You may be your god, I may be god, and there are many gods. But Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme God. Nobody is above Him. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ. He has no cause, anādi. He is causeless. We have got cause; *He is causeless. Anādir ādir govindaḥ. Govinda means He is pleasure of... He is the reservoir of all pleasure, Govinda. Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], cause of all causes. So here it is said that "That Bhagavān, who is sātvatāṁ patiḥ..." That means there are many great, great devotees, stalwart devotees, ācāryas and teachers, and for all of them, He is the master. Sātvatāṁ patiḥ. And what is to be done about Him? śrotavyaḥ: "You have to hear about Him." Where I can hear? When He speaks Himself. Why don't you hear there? How can you know the Supreme, the cause of all causes? Nobody can explain. But when He explains Himself, you can hear. That is Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself.

Suppose if you want to know me or know something about me, you can ask some friend, "Oh, how is Swamiji?" He may say something; *other may, something. But when I explain to you myself, "This is my position. I am this," that is perfect. That is perfect. So if you want to know the Absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead, you cannot speculate, neither meditate. It is not possible, because your senses are very imperfect. So what is the way? Just hear from Him. So He has kindly come to say Bhagavad*-gītā. Śrotavyaḥ: "Just try to hear." Śrotavyaḥ and kīrtitavyaś ca. If you simply hear and hear in the class of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and go outside and forget, oh, that is not nice. That will not make you improve. Then what is? Kīrtitavyaś ca: "Whatever you are hearing, you should say to others." That is perfection.

Therefore we have established Back to Godhead. The students are allowed, whatever they are hearing, they must be thoughtful and write. Kīrtitavyaś ca. Not only simply hearing. "Oh, I am hearing for millions of years; *still, I cannot understand"*-because you do not chant, you do not repeat what you have heard. You have to repeat. Kīrtitavyaś ca. śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca dhyeyaḥ. And how can you write or how you can speak unless you think of Him? You are hearing about Kṛṣṇa; you have to think, then you can speak. Otherwise not. So śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca dhyeyaḥ and pūjyaś ca. And you should worship. Therefore we require this Deity for worshiping. We have to think of, we have to speak, we have to hear, we have to worship, pūjyaś ca... Then, occasionally? No. Nityadā: regularly, regular. Nityadā, this is the process.

*So anyone who adopts this process, he can understand the Absolute Truth. This is the clear declaration of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam.

Thank you very much. Any question? You can ask any question, what you have heard. Yes?

Guest (1): What is the source of life? Not the ordinary life. I am referring to it in the spiritual sense of the word. What is the source of... I don't mean to ask you if Brahman is the source of life. For example, could sound create life?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Sound create life, that is the scientific truth. From ether, sound is created. From sound, fire is created. From fire... No. From sound, air is created. From air, fire is created. And from fire, water is created. From water, land is created. This is nature's law. But where the ether is created? That you have to search out. If you go upstairs, where ether is created, then you come to God. Therefore from God, everything is created. Ether is the subtle form of matter. Then it becomes gross, gross matter. So the grossest is this material, this matter, dark. And the finest in the material is the ether. And finer than the ether is the mind. And finer than the mind is intelligence. And finer than the intelligence is the soul. And who is the source of soul? The Supreme Lord. Therefore the Supreme Lord is everything.



Guest (2): Somebody said Christ studied in India. Is this true?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Guest (2): Somebody... I have heard or read somewhere that Christ had studied in India. Is this true?



Prabhupāda: Yes, I have also heard, but I do not know whether it is true. Maybe, because India is the place of learning. From China, from other places, from Greece, the history says, they used to go to India. So quite possible. And I have heard from reliable sources that Christ was absent from his home for twelve years, and he went to India for studying. Maybe. Yes. Yes?



Guest (3): You mentioned about how you should fulfill the supreme law, and you should be what your..., what the spirit tells you or what this Supreme Being, whatever, this tells you? I mean, like, if you, like, if you meditate a lot and you really, well, you feel something, that you should do something...



Prabhupāda: It is not something. It must be actual fact. There is no question of "something." "Something" is vague. You must speak what is that something.



Guest (3): Well, let's say it'd be to...



*Prabhupāda: Oh, that you cannot express. That means you have no idea. So you have to learn. This is the process. I am speaking of the process. So if you want to have knowledge of Absolute Truth, the first thing is, basic principle is, faith. Then you must be thoughtful. Then you must be devoted, and you must hear from authentic sources. In this way, these are the different methods. And when you come to the ultimate knowledge, from Brahman platform to Paramātmā platform, then Paramātmā to the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead, then your duty shall be to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the perfection of your active life. These are the process. These are the process, and it is concluded that therefore, everyone*-never mind what he is-his duty is to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And how we can satisfy? We have to hear about Him, we have to speak about Him, we have to think about Him, we have to worship Him, and that is regularly. That will make, help you. If you have no worship, if you have no thought, if you have no hearing, if you have no speaking, and you are simply thinking of something, something, something, that "something, something," it is not God.



Guest (3): No, well, I mean, well, you know, I'm still young and I didn't know what I mean. I don't know what I'm...



Prabhupāda: So here don't talk (indistinct). That I am speaking, that you have to know in this process. We are all "don't knows." So we have to know. This is the process. Yes?



Nandarāṇī: But since we don't yet understand the supreme law, because we are young and just new to this, how can we speak about it without saying...?



Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to hear. First thing is śrotavyaḥ. You have to hear. Unless you hear, how can you speak? We are, therefore, giving you facility to hear. You hear, and then you can speak. Then you can think. We are giving all facilities: to hear, to speak, to think, to worship. This is the Society's work. Unless you hear, how can you speak? The first, I mean, task is given, śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca dhyeyaḥ pūjyaś ca nityadā. These are the process. You have to hear, and hearing you have to repeat, chant. And then you have to think. You have to worship. These are the processes. Yes.



Upendra: Swamiji, so we can hear, but do we speak? We listen for a long time, or do we...?



*Prabhupāda: No. Why? Suppose you hear two lines. Oh, you repeat that two lines. Now, anything... Suppose leaving aside everything, now hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty there? śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca. You have to hear and chant. So if you cannot remember on the topics which are, mean to say, speaking from Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then you can at least remember this, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Therefore it is the easiest process. You hear Hare Kṛṣṇa and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then other things will come automatically. Now, this is possible for everyone. Even the child can repeat Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty? You hear Kṛṣṇa and you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are not giving you very difficult or troublesome task. Then everything will follow. We are giving you everything. But if you feel in the beginning to be difficult, then you can do this. This is very nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that actually. Somebody is speaking and hearing and you are chanting. This process will help you.



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



This śravaṇam, hearing and chanting, is the basic principle of advancement in spiritual life. Without hearing, we shall simply concoct, simply waste our time and mislead people. We have to hear from the authoritative sources. (aside:) Hayagrīva, come here. Come here. Now this should be lighted up, and when there is kīrtana, one must be doing like this before the Deity. You see? Yes, with the kīrtana. When he stops, he should hand over to another person, devotee. When he stops, he should another. So so long kīrtana will go on, this will go on. You just, with the kīrtana just now... You do not follow? You begin, and when you are tired, you hand over to other. It will go on.



Hayagrīva: Like this?



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it, before the Deity. All right. Let us begin kīrtana. (kīrtana)



*Prabhupāda: (recites jaya om prayers) Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bring that before me. Yes. Show everyone. Each and every one show. Whatever they contribute... Take, take the... Yes, like this. Show everyone. The Bhāgavata has recommended hearing, chanting, thinking... Hearing, chanting, thinking and worshiping, the process which we just now introduced on the advent of Jagannātha Svāmī. Now this temple is now completely fixed. So the worshiping process, this is the worshiping process. By light... This is called ārātrika. So at the end of kīrtana this ārātrika will go, and the worshiping process is to take the heat of the light, and whatever your condition is, pay something for the worship. So, this simple process, if you follow, you just see how you realize the Absolute Truth. Another, I request you, all the devotees, when you come to the temple, you bring one fruit and one flower. If you can bring more fruit, more flower, it is very good. If not, it is not very expensive. One fruit and one flower. And offer to the Deity. So I'll request you when you come to the temple you bring this. Whatever fruit it may be. It does not mean that you have to bring very costly fruit. Any fruit, whatever you can afford. One fruit and one flower. Yes. Now you can distribute prasāda? (pause*-guests take prasāda) Very nice preparation. Mmmm. All glories to the cookers.



Girl: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Jagannāthaḥ svāmī nayana*-patha-gāmī bhavatu me. Howard, repeat this.



*Hayagrīva: Jagannāthaḥ svāmī nayana*-patha-gāmī bhavatu me.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, this should be chanted. Jagannāthaḥ svāmī nayana*-patha-gāmī bhavatu me. (pause)



*Hayagrīva: Oh. Uh, "Lord of the universe, please be present before me." (pause*-door opens and closes)



Prabhupāda: Oh, why he is going away? Ask him to come. (someone goes out) Please, please take prasāda. Give him first. [break] Human life is not for, I mean to say, playing, sense gratification. Very important life. So Kṛṣṇa says manuṣyāṇām. But they do not know. Foolish people, they do not know. They are simply wasting life in sense gratification. They are thinking, "By sense gratification we shall be happy." One day the cruel death will come, at once give him a slap: "Come on! Go! Finish your business. No more human life. Become a cat and dog." So these risks are there. So we should be very responsible. So we are not responsible. Kṛṣṇa says, "They are not responsible." Therefore manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many thousands of people, a person desires to utilize his human form of life very nicely. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Kaścit means somebody tries to make his life perfect. And yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. And among such millions of persons who are trying to make his perfect, one can understand Kṛṣṇa.



So Kṛṣṇa is not easy to understand. But He is so kind that He is explaining Himself. One who takes this explanation of Kṛṣṇa and understand Him, he becomes perfect.

Thank you very much. Any question? No, question? Have you got any questions?

Govinda dāsī: Uh, well, could you tell about Lord Caitanya asking where is Kṛṣṇa and falling in the water? Or would that be not blissful?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Very nice. Your question is very nice. I'm very glad. Lord Caitanya, He was the greatest symbol of kṛṣṇa*-bhakta, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So just see from His life. He never said that "I have seen Kṛṣṇa." He never said that "I have seen Kṛṣṇa." He was mad after Kṛṣṇa. "Where I can see Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" He was mad after Kṛṣṇa. That is the, I mean to say, process of Caitanya philosophy. It is called viraha. Viraha means separation. Separation. "Kṛṣṇa, You are so good, You are so merciful, You are so nice. But I am so rascal, I am so full of sin, that I cannot see You. I have no qualification to see You." So in this way, if one feels the separation of Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa, I want to see You, but I am so disqualified that I cannot see You." These feeling of separation will make you enriched in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Feeling of separation. Not that "Kṛṣṇa, I have seen you. Finished. All right. I have understood You. Finished. All my business finished." No! Perpetually think of yourself that "I am unfit to see Kṛṣṇa." That will enrich you in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu displayed this, these feelings of separation. This is Rādhārāṇī's separation. When Kṛṣṇa went from Vṛndāvana to His place, His father's place, and Rādhārāṇī was feeling in that way, always mad after Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, took the separation feeling of Rādhārāṇī. That is the best way of worshiping Kṛṣṇa or becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. So you know that Lord Caitanya fell on the sea. "Kṛṣṇa, if You are in the sea? Kṛṣṇa, if You are here? Kṛṣṇa, if You are here?" Similarly, the next devotees, Lord Caitanya's direct disciples, Gosvāmīs*-Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. They also, the same disciplic succession, they also worship Kṛṣṇa in that separation feeling. There is a nice verse about them: (sings)

*he rādhe vraja*-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ

*śrī*-govardhana-kalpa-pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ

*ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja*-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*These Gosvāmīs also, later on, when they were very much mature in devotional service, what they were doing? They were daily in the vṛndāvana*-dhāma, just like a mad man: "Kṛṣṇa, where You are?" That is the qualification. It is very nice question. (pause) (Prabhupāda chants Govinda jaya jaya, recites jaya om prayers) (end)





690716DI.LA

Śrī Śrī Rukmiṇī Dvārakānātha

Deity Installation

-

Los Angeles, July 16, 1969



Prabhupāda: Now today this function of installing Deity, this is authorized. Just like several times I have given the example that when you put your mails in a box in the street, because it is written there U.S. Mail, you know that it is authorized box. And if you put your letters within this box, it will surely reach the destination. The post office will work. So there is no difference between the huge post office building and that small box because it is authorized. Similarly, the difference between idol worship and Deity worship is like that. Unless authorized process is accepted, it is idol worship. That is the general rule. If somebody thinks that "There is a box, red and blue, on the street. Why shall I go to that box? Let me have similar box at my door and it will be cleared by the postman because it is blue and red," that will not be so. Because the box which you put at your door, that is not authorized.



*Similarly, we have to worship the Deity according to the authorized system. Just like in our Gauḍīya*-sampradāya there is authorized system by the Gosvāmīs and there is a big book which is called Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. So everything is stated there, how the Vaiṣṇava family should have their all function... It is called Vaiṣṇava-smṛti. Śruti and smṛti. So we have to follow this regulation of the śruti, Vedas, and smṛti. Smṛti means derived from the Vedas. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says, śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pāñcarātrikī-vidhiṁ vinā, aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate [Brs. 1.2.101]. Without following the rules and regulations of Vedic injunctions, without reference to the regulative principles mentioned in different smṛtis, without reference to the Purāṇas and without reference to the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī...

*The pāñcarātrikī*-vidhī means it is a special concession for this age. Vaidika-vidhī and pāñcarātrikī-vidhī. Vaidika-vidhī is very authorized, but this Vaidika-vidhī is specially meant for those who are highly elevated brāhmaṇas. In this age it is accepted as a fact by the śāstras, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age nobody is actually bona fide brāhmaṇas by birth. Formerly they used to be. The family tradition, the garbhādhāna system, the saṁskāras were strictly followed; *therefore a son born of a brāhmaṇa father was accepted as a brāhmaṇa, not immediately, but going through the process. But in this age because it is very difficult to find out a person who is born of a qualified brāhmaṇa, therefore Nārada*-pañcarātra is there. So these Gosvāmīns, Rūpa Gosvāmī specially recommends, śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañc... [Brs. 1.2.101]. Either you follow the principles of śruti, Vedas, followed by smṛti, purāṇādi, or you follow the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī. The pāñcarātrikī-vidhī... Just like we are introducing in this temple for worshiping Deity, but actually the Deity can be worshiped by the bona fide brāhmaṇas.

*There was agitation in India, perhaps you know, that Gandhi stamped some persons as Harijana. Harijana. They were coming from the bhaṅgīs. Bhaṅgīs means sweepers or the cleaners of the toilet room. So Gandhi accepted them. The government was creating, British government was creating faction between high caste, low caste. So Gandhi thought that, "I shall make these bhaṅgīs and camars as Harijana, as great devotees." But simply by rubberstamping, how one can become devotee? That is not possible. Without going the pāñcarātrikī*-vidhī, they remain the same unclean drunkard and the all nonsense habits. And simply by stamping rubberstamping, Harijana? No. Here what we are doing, it is not rubberstamping. It is actually training according to the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī. We are training our boys to become brāhmaṇas, to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities, to take bath, to take this, take that. And above all, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ceto-darpaṇa-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing of all sinful activities. So in this way Harijana can be made, but not that you pick up somebody nonsense and rubberstamp this "Harijana." No. There must be process.

*There is no hindrance for anyone to become Harijana. Harijana means God's person or devotee. Hari means God, Kṛṣṇa, and jana means His person. Just like we have got here government servant, special, or ordinary person. So Harijana means the servants of the Supreme Lord. So that is not ordinary thing. There is no harm to create Harijana by regular process, but you cannot make Harijana simply by stamping. Bhagavad*-gītā says, equal opportunity for everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Low-class born birth is understood due to sinful activities. Low-class birth, animal birth. Sinful activities. But Kṛṣṇa says, pāpa-yonayaḥ, born in sinful families, never mind. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā... If he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious by bona fide process, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā. Vyapāśrityā means bona fide process. Not an imitation, bona fide. And bona fide means as they are depicted, as they are described, as they are enjoined in the authorized śāstra like śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañca... [Brs. 1.2.101]. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Never mind in whatever family one is born, sinful family, never mind. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyaḥ, including woman and śūdras and vaiśyas, they are considered as less intelligent. They are considered as less intelligent. Therefore, according to Vedic system, a boy born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is allowed all the saṁskāras, reformatory, purificatory process, but the girl is not. Why? Now, because a girl has to follow her husband. So if her husband is brāhmaṇa, automatically she becomes brāhmaṇa. There is no need of separate reformation. And by chance she may be married with a person who is not a brāhmaṇa, then what is the use of making her a brāhmaṇa? That is the general method. So therefore the, even born in a brāhmaṇa family, a woman is taken as woman, not as brāhmaṇa. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Never mind. Even if she is woman, even she is śūdra, even she is vaiśya, or any other, I mean to say, family born in, never mind." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā [Bg. 9.32], if anyone is bona fidely made Kṛṣṇa conscious, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, so his way is open to the path of Vaikuṇṭha, parāṁ gatim. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33].

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, it opens the door of highest perfectional platform for everyone provided he follows the rules and regulations. That's all. That is the only condition. Otherwise, if simply by imitating, if somebody thinks, "Oh, I can become a..." like that. "If such and such person can become, I can do..." No. That is warned by Rūpa Gosvāmī,

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pāñcarātrikī*-vidhīṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpatayaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*If we simply imitate, oh, that will not do. So do not try to imitate, follow the simple rules and regulations, it is very nice, and above all, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll become purified. Without being purified you cannot touch Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedas it is stated, "Without becoming Brahman you cannot approach Brahman." Just like without becoming fire you cannot approach fire. Because the inconsistency of temperature. It will burn. Just like here is fire, and I am feeling temperature, but the fire flames within the fire, they do not feel because the temperature is the same. Similarly, without becoming Brahman, without understanding oneself, realizing himself, nobody can... Kṛṣṇa is the Parambrahman. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam, therefore one has to keep himself very purified; otherwise you cannot touch Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. It is fire, so you have to become fire. And how to become fire? Fire, you are also fire, but now you are covered fire, covered by this material body. Therefore you have to spiritualize this body by purificatory process. The same example, just like the iron rod, it is iron, but you put into the fire. It becomes warm, warmer, warmer, then red hot, then it is fire. Similarly, by this process, chanting process, by regulative process, you are becoming warmer, warmer, warmer, warmer. And when you fully become red hot warm, then your body is as good as Kṛṣṇa's. So we have to keep ourself always in the fire of Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *then everything is all right. (laughs) Otherwise, it will become dull and it will be simply idol worship. That's all. That is the difference between idol worship and Deity worship. If there is no life, then it is idol worship, hedonism. And when there is life, feeling, "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Here is Kṛṣṇa. Oh, I have to serve Kṛṣṇa, I have to dress Him, I have to serve Rādhārāṇī, She is here. Oh, I must do it very nicely. And as far as possible decorate Her to the best capacity." In this way, if you always feel Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you are fire. The same example, keeping with the fire. And if you think it is a brass*-made doll, I mean to say, idol... Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. If you think this is a brass-made idol, then it will remain a brass-made idol to you forever. But if you elevate yourself to higher platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa, this Kṛṣṇa, will talk with you. This Kṛṣṇa will talk with you.



*There is a Vaṁsīdāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, he was talking with his Deity. And Kṛṣṇa... Just like Madana*-mohana, He was talking with Sanātana Gosvāmī. Madana-mohana... Sanātana Gosvāmī at that time had no temple; *he was hanging his Deity on the tree. So Madana*-mohana was talking with him, "Sanātana, you are bringing all these dry capatis, and it is stale, and you don't give Me even little salt. How can I eat?" Sanātana Gosvāmī said, "Sir, where shall I go? Whatever I get I offer You. You kindly accept. I cannot move, old man." You see. So Kṛṣṇa had to eat that. (chuckles) Because the bhakta is offering He cannot refuse. Ye māṁ bhaktyā prayacchati. Real thing is bhakti. What you can offer to Kṛṣṇa? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. What you have got? What is your value? And what is the value of your things? It is nothing. Therefore real thing is bhaktyā, real thing is your feeling. "Kṛṣṇa, kindly take it. I have no qualification. I am most rotten, fallen, but (begins to cry) I have brought this thing for you. Please take it." This will be accepted. Don't be puffed up. Always be careful. You are dealing with Kṛṣṇa. That is my request. Thank you very much. (end)



730821DI.LON

Śrī Śrī Rādhā Gokulānanda

Deity Installation

-

London, August 21, 1973



*Prabhupāda: ...hari*-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu te te prabhāva-nīcayā vihitaś ca yena... [Bs. 5.43].



*goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya

*devī*-maheṣa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu

*te te prabhāva*-nīcayā vihitaś ca yena

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.43]



*Goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni. There is a planet in the spiritual world. The material world, you can see the material sky, limit of the sky, the horizon, but you are not able to reach even the moon planet, the nearest planet. But within this universe, within this horizon, there are innumerable planets. Aśeṣa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. By the shining effulgence from the body of Kṛṣṇa... That is called brahmajyoti. Within that brahmajyoti or effulgence there are innumerable universes. Ananta-koṭi. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Koṭi means innumerable. One million, ten millions equal to one lakh. Such hundred lakhs makes a koṭi. So actually we see there are innumerable planets but beyond this creation, this is material creation, one-fourth manifestation, one-fourth manifestation of God's creation, this, this material world... This is also only one universe. There are innumerable universes clustered together and beyond this clustering of universes there is another sky which is called paravyoma or spiritual sky. If you want to go there, then you have to penetrate through the material coverings-earth, water, fire, water, fire, air, like that. Each layer so big. And the next layer is ten times more than the first layer. In this way there are seven layers. So penetrating through that seven layers you reach the spiritual sky. And after reaching the spiritual sky, there are so many Vaikuṇṭha planets, spiritual planets.



*So that is summarized: goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya [Bs. 5.43]. The topmost planet is called Goloka or Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇaloka. Go means cows. Kṛṣṇa is very much fond of cows. Therefore, that planet is called also Goloka, the planet full of cows. We have recited Brahma-saṁhitā today, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣā-vṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa is engaged in tending cows. He's very much fond of cows. Surabhi, they are not ordinary cows. In the spiritual world, everything is spiritual. So there is a planet, goloka-nāmni. So, that is the highest planet. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni. That is the personal abode. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya: [Bs. 5.43] under that planet, there are other planetary systems. They are called Devīdhāma, Maheśadhāma, Haridhāma.

*Now this universe, this material world is called Devī*-dhāma. Devī-dhāma. It is under the control of the material energy. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir-eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. This energy is also personified called Durgādevī. So above this planetary system there is Maheśa-dhāma. Maheśa-dhāma. In the border between spiritual sky and material sky. Above that, there are Hari-dhāma, the Vaikuṇṭha planets where Nārāyaṇa, in various forms is predominating. And above all of them there is Goloka-dhāma or Kṛṣṇa's dhāma. So picture we have given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya [Bs. 5.43], devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu, te te prabhava-nicayā vihitaś ca yena. Each planetary system has got specific atmosphere. Everything is specific. So that is done, that is created by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So in this way, Kṛṣṇa is there in the topmost Goloka-dhāma. But still goloka-dhāmni nivasati, although He is living there, akhilātmā-bhūto, He is everywhere. He's everywhere. That is Kṛṣṇa.

*Just like we are sitting in this hall. We are not in our apartment house. Kṛṣṇa is not like that. He is in the goloka*-nāmni nija-dhāmni, in His own planet, He's engaged in His occupation. Somewhere He's tending cows, somewhere He's dancing with the gopīs. He is going on with His enjoying occupations. But still He's everywhere. Goloka-nāmni, goloka eva nivasaty [Bs. 5.37]. Nivasaty means although He's living there, akhilātmā bhūtaḥ. He's everywhere. He's within your heart. Īśvara sarva bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. He's within your heart. Not only within the heart, He is within the atom also. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa cayā yad-antaḥ aṇḍantara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. His one plenary portion has entered this material world as Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu. From Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu, there is expansion of Kṣirodakaśayī Viṣṇu. That Kṣirodakaśayī Viṣṇu has entered every atom. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-caya yad-antaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, and if you are devotee, then you can catch Him. This is the secret. Just like electricity is everywhere, electrons. One who can tackle the electrons, they can talk without any direct connection by electronic method, thousand thousand miles away. Just like radio message, television message. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also everywhere. Just like the waves of sound wave is going on. As soon as you produce, I produce one sound, immediately within a second the sound goes round the earth seven times. So if a material thing has got so much power, just think how much power God has got. So He is everywhere. Simply you have to catch Him. And He's also ready for being caught. Yes. If somebody wants to catch Him... Suppose you are a devotee. If you want to catch Him, He comes forward ten times than your desire. He's so kind. Therefore, we have to simply receive Him.

*So this Deity worship in the temple means worshiping Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's akhilātmā*-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Where you shall find Him? He's everywhere. Therefore, He has very kindly accepted to assume a form which you can handle. This form of Kṛṣṇa, the atheist will say that "Here is a form made of marble. How is that they are worshiping God, Kṛṣṇa?" That is atheist view. But from the śāstra, we understand Kṛṣṇa, if He is within the atom, why not within the marble? It is simply understanding. Not only within, the marble itself is also Kṛṣṇa. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. These material elements, earth, earth, water, fire, air, they are Kṛṣṇa's energy. Kṛṣṇa says bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. They are My energies, separated energy. So even if you consider that here is not Kṛṣṇa but a marble. No, that marble is also Kṛṣṇa. Marble is also... And Kṛṣṇa is, being omnipotent, even for your logical argument... Even if you say that this is a marble statue, still Kṛṣṇa is so powerful, omnipotent, that He can accept your service even through this marble. Actually, it is not marble. Or from spiritual vision, everything being Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa can accept your service even through the marble, even through the water, even through the fire. Why not? Energy. Just like if you come to the sunshine, energy of sun, you immediately touch the sun globe. Is it not? Because the beams are coming from the sun globe so as soon as you touch the sunshine, sunbeam, you touch the sun immediately. And there are yogis who can reach the sun planet through the beams of sun. Because the spirit soul is very, very small. Smaller than the atom. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. And the spirit soul can go everywhere. And it is, the speed of spirit soul is greater than the mind. You have got experience of the speed of the mind. In a second you can go many thousands of miles. Mind. Suppose you are sitting here, those who are Indians, immediately, within a second, one can reach Calcutta, Bombay. Immediately, without even, less than a second's time. The mind's speed, you can imagine. And finer than the mind is the spirit soul. So how much speedy is the spirit soul, that we have to know from the śāstras. Śāstra yonitvāt. Everything.

*Therefore do not think that we have installed a marble statue. The rascals will say "They are heathens." No. We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa personally. Kṛṣṇa personally, Kṛṣṇa has kindly assumed this form just... Because we cannot see Kṛṣṇa, the gigantic Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa is everywhere... Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Our imperfect senses cannot see Kṛṣṇa immediately. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind, as we can see... We can see stone, we can see wood, we can see earth, we can see water, we can see color. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa comes before us just quite suitable for our vision. But He's Kṛṣṇa. So this Deity worship, those who are in charge of Deity worship, they never should think that here is a statue. No. Here is Kṛṣṇa. The honor, the respect, the samra (indistinct), means with great honor... You must always think that here is Kṛṣṇa personally. Don't think that it is statue. Kṛṣṇa personally. So you should honor and think also and be cautious so that you may not commit offense. Kṛṣṇa worship, if you neglect the process, then it will be offensive. There are sixty-four kinds of offenses. You have seen it in The Nectar of Devotion. So not very much... You should be very much clean, first thing is. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Very much clean, rise early in the morning, take your bath and perform maṅgala ārātrika, then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then read scriptures. In this way remain twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is the purpose of installing Deity. Not that after few days you think it is a burden. No, then it will be great offense. It is not burden. It is a great opportunity to serve Kṛṣṇa. As the gopīs are serving in Goloka Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He has come here to accept your service in a manner in which you can handle Him. You can dress Kṛṣṇa, you can offer prasāda, you can chant His glory. In this way, always remain engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and gradually you'll find how you are advancing in spiritual life. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760502DI.FIJ

Śrī Śrī Kāliya Kṛṣṇa

Deity Installation

-

Lautoka, Fiji, May 2, 1976



Prabhupāda:

*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*So, ladies and gentlemen, today is very auspicious day that in your country, beautiful land, we are now going to establish a temple of Kāliya. Rāmana, Kṛṣṇa. Of course the Deities, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa and Guru-Gaurāṅga also will be there. There will be three compartments in the fashion of our Vṛndāvana temple. And I thank you very much for your encouraging association in this matter. It is said,



*śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-

*śṛṅgāra*-tan-mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



Guru is... There are so many other things, guru's qualification. There are eight verses in the prayer of guru. The first verse is



*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇārṇavasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*Guru's first business is to deliver the suffering humanity from the forest fire of this material existence. This material existence is compared with forest fire. You know there is fire in the forest. Big forest, nobody goes there to set fire. But automatically there is fire. Therefore this material existence has been compared with the forest fire. Here everyone wants to become happy, but there is fire. Even if we do not want, there is fire, miseries. Because this place, this material world, is place for suffering. It is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Bhagavad*-gītā, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This place is for suffering. But under the spell of māyā, sufferings, we have taken as happiness or enjoying. This is called māyā. Actually there is no enjoyment here. Where is enjoyment? When we have to die, then where is the question of enjoyment? Does anyone want to die? No. Nobody wants to die. If there is some danger immediately, immediately we shall flee away. That is Nobody wants to die. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā the four principles of unhappiness is described by the Supreme Lord, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Those who are intelligent, they will see four principles of major suffering. What is that? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, to take birth, to die, and to suffer from disease, and to become old. So, so long you have got this material body, you have to suffer. Now, under the spell of māyā you can accept suffering as enjoyment, That is your business, But it is suffering.



*So therefore, guru's business is to deliver the disciple from the suffering condition. Saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. So one who has got this mercy from the Supreme Lord, and he can deliver his guru. guru's out of many other businesses, one business is śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā **. To establish temple for regularly worshiping the Deity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā. And to worship the Deity very nicely, to decorate, to dress, to cleanse the temple, to offer nice foodstuff, distribute prasādam these are the activities of the temple. Unfortunately, people are in so much ignorance that they have forgotten everything. They're living like cats and dogs, animals. So this is a great opportunity that you are going to open a nice temple here. So not only open temple but you take part yourself How to decorate the Deity, how to cleanse the temple, how to offer nice prasādam, how to distribute prasādam, how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.

*mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana*-nṛtya-gīta-

*vāditra*-madyan-manaso rasena

*romāñca*-kampāśru-taraṅga-bhājo

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



So the opportunity has come by the endeavor of our Mr. Punja. He's to be known as Vāsudeva dāsa henceforward. His wife, Bhagavati, and his mother . So my request is, I of course I am traveling all over the world. It may not be possible for me to see you very frequently. But I expect to come again and again. But I entrust the matter to you all. I'll send help also as far as possible. Now you have to take care of your own business, this temple, and always remember that according to your capacity you can serve the Lord. It is not that one who is worshiping the Deity, decorating the Deity, offering arotik, he's in better position than the person who is cleansing the temple. Both of them equal. In the spiritual world there is no such distinction. Absolute. As here there is distinction between higher grade and lower grade service, in the spiritual world there is no such thing. Everything is spiritual service. So that you realize one after another.



*Now, only request is that you take very active part in this temple business. Especially in the matter of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. We have got so many books books, pages each. If you simply finish this reading and hearing of these book perhaps your whole lifetime will be engaged. So kindly do this. Everyone come hear what is spoken about Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa*-kathā. Kṛṣṇa-kathā means words or narration or description about Kṛṣṇa. There are two kṛṣṇa-kathās especially. One is the Bhagavad-gītā, the kathā, the words which is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. This is kṛṣṇa-kathā. And another is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam which is spoken about Kṛṣṇa. That is also kṛṣṇa-kathā. So kṛṣṇa-kathā, the temple should be always filled up with kṛṣṇa-kathā and distribution of Kṛṣṇa prasādam. In this way develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this world and in the next. It is compulsory. You cannot avoid kṛṣṇa-kathā. If you avoid, then you are putting yourself in dangerous cycle of birth and death. It is not fiction or whims; *it is compulsory, imperative. Everyone should become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If he does not become, then he's risking his life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for saving all members of the human society without any distinction. There is no such question, Hindus, Muslim, Christian, or... no. Everyone can join. Even one is born in low grade family. That is Kṛṣṇa's order. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇaḥ punyā bhaktā rājarśayas tathā [Bg. 9.33]. Even one is born in low grade family, he has got the facility of joining this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and everyone has the capability to understand it, every human being. Otherwise how in the western world, all these boys and girls who have joined, in number, so they are coming from different family. But they have taken Kṛṣṇa consciousness so seriously. So if you yourself become serious and distribute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge, the inhabitants of this island, Fiji Island, they will be also benefited and they will be also delivered. We have no such distinction. But everything must be done under proper direction and under the rules and regulation. So try to carry out and construct the temple very nicely and enjoy spiritual. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Śrīla Prabhupāda! (applause) (end)





681118LE.LA

Six Gosvāmīs Lecture,

*Śrī Śrī Ṣaḍ*-govāmy-aṣṭaka

-

Los Angeles, November 18, 1968



Prabhupāda:

*kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhi

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bharavahantarakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*This is a prayer offering obeisances to the Six Gosvāmīs, direct disciples of Lord Caitanya. Vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau. The Six Gosvāmīs' names are Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī... Vande rūpa-sanātana raghu-yugau. And there are two Raghus. One Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī and one Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. According to whole Vedic system, there are four castes, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, and śūdras. So this Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī belong to the... Of course, a Vaiṣṇava is never śūdra, but in social standard they belonged to the kṣatriya or śūdra. Therefore he is named as dāsa Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. So the Six Gosvāmīs... (child making noises) Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, and two Raghunātha Gosvāmī, and three, four, and then Jīva Gosvāmī and Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. Six Gosvāmīs. Practically, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu left behind Him that eight ślokas, Śikṣāṣṭaka, which you have seen. I have translated in my first volume of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. On the basis of those eight verses, the Gosvāmīs wrote literatures, volumes of books. From Vṛndāvana they were dispatched after the disappearance of... The Gosvāmīs, they left so many books handwritten, that when they were dispatched it was a full cartload, a big cartload, you see. Just imagine how many books they wrote. They were great scholars, and many varieties of books of bhakti school, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they wrote. So these Gosvāmīs were engaged, kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana, chanting and dancing. Kīrtana means chanting, and nartana means dancing. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana, utkīrtana. Utkīrtana means very loudly, not softly.



*So this loud kīrtana was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya. So this disturbance, this complaint, was current even in His own time. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was introducing this kīrtana system, so many brāhmaṇas of Navadvīpa, they complained to the Muhammadan magistrate-at that time the government was Muhammadan government, Pathan*-to the Kazi that "This boy..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu was that time seventeen years, eighteen-years-old boy, but He was very popular by introducing this saṅkīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting and dancing. And He said that simply by chanting and dancing, as we are saying, one will achieve the highest perfectional stage. So the brāhmaṇas were working as priest, they thought that their business will not go on. They prescribed so many ritualistic performances, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was saying simply by chanting one can achieve the highest perfection. So they were disturbed, and they lodged complaint to the then magistrate, Kazi. Maulana Chand Kazi, his name was Maulana Chand Kazi. You know, when a Muhammadan is learned and religious he gets the title Maulana. So that magistrate, Chand Kazi, was very learned scholar, not only in Muhammadan scriptures, but he was a great scholar Hindu scripture also. Just like in British period in India, there were many responsible English officers, just like high-court judge, civil service. They were very vastly learned in Sanskrit. One Mr. Woodruff, Justice Woodruff, Englishman in Calcutta high-court, oh, he was a very great scholar, Sanskrit scholar, and he translated all the tantric śāstras. So scholarly people are always there. It doesn't matter. They do not belong to any class of men. Scholars are scholars, saintly persons are saintly persons.

*So this Chand Kazi was a great scholar, and the brāhmaṇas lodged complaint that "This boy Nimāi Paṇḍita..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu was known at that time "Nimāi Paṇḍita." His mother's given name was Nimāi. And because He was also very great scholar, in sixteen years old he defeated many scholars. One scholar came from Kashmir. He was, his name was Keśava Kāśmirī, he defeated all scholars of India. But when he came to Navadvīpa he was defeated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a great scholar. He was scholar in logic especially, nyāya. So He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. Paṇḍita means learned scholar. Especially brāhmaṇas are called paṇḍita because generally the brāhmaṇas are expected to be great scholars. So unfortunately, later on the paṇḍita title was there, but some of them were great fools. Perhaps you know, our late Prime Minister, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru... Perhaps you've heard his name, Nehru. He came to your country I think during President Eisenhower's time, and in some meeting some American gentlemen or boys, I do not know, they asked him to explain some of the verses from Bhagavad*-gītā. And he, I mean to say, admitted that he was not a scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. So, but his title was there, paṇḍita. Generally, the brāhmaṇas are given this title paṇḍita on account of their scholarship in Vedic literature. So Nimāi Paṇḍita, Nimāi Paṇḍita. Yes. So complaint was lodged against Him, and He disobeyed the order of the Kazi, civil disobedience, and there was a great incident. Then the Kazi became His admirer, follower. That is a long story.

*So the Gosvāmīs, six Gosvāmīs, they picked up Lord Caitanya's eight verses and they wrote so many books. (door opens) The Gosvāmīs are coming. (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So these Gosvāmīs were chanting and dancing, kṛṣṇot*-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. So we are creating the descendants of Gosvāmīs here in the Western countries. You are also chanting and dancing, following the footprints of the Gosvāmīs, kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. And they were chanting and dancing, not dry. Premāmṛtāmbho-nidhi, dipped into the ocean of love of Kṛṣṇa. You cannot chant and dance for a long time unless you are dipped into the ocean of love of Kṛṣṇa. That is the specific qualification of the dancer and chanter. If you ask somebody to chant and dance for one hour, he'll get tired. But this chanting and dancing is so nice that these Gosvāmīs, they can go on chanting and dancing for twenty-four hours. Premāmṛtāmbho-nidhi. Because they were dipped into the ocean of love of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhi dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Dhīra, dhīra means gentle, and adhīra means ruffians, not gentle. So they were affectionate and popular both to the gentle as well as ruffians, these Gosvāmīs. Everyone liked them. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that unless one is a staunch atheist, everyone will like this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. As an evidence, people are receiving these boys who are chanting and dancing. Out of their love they are contributing something, they are purchasing magazines. So this is sympathy, sign of love. So they are not, of course, very big business magnate or politicians; they are common men. But it is appealing to the common people. There is no doubt about it.

*So these Gosvāmīs were also very popular amongst all classes of men. Dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau. Because they were also benefactor. They were doing something which is beneficial to the mass of people. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau. Nirmatsarau means not envious. We are not envious to anyone. Yesterday I received one letter from Rāyarāma. He wanted my permission to make some propaganda in our magazine Back to Godhead against animal slaughter, butchery. So I replied that why should we be against a class of men who are known in the society as butcher? Actually, everyone is butcher. Actually, so-called gentlemen who are, I mean to say, supporting these butchers, they are also butchers. According to Manu-saṁhitā, there are eight kinds of butchers. The man who is killing the animal, the man who is ordering to kill the animal, the man who is skinning the animal, the man who is purchasing the meat, the man who is cooking, the man who is eating, they are called all butchers. Just like if there is a murder case and there is a conspiracy, so it is not the man who has directly killed some person, he is arrested, but everyone who is in the conspiracy, they are all arrested. That is the common law. So in that sense everyone is butcher. Besides that, because a person is killing some cow or some animal, we are calling butcher, but mostly they are killing their soul. Anyone who is unconscious, who is ignorant of his spiritual identity, identifying himself with this body and misusing this opportunity of human form of life simply for animal sense gratification, they are also butchers. If killing of some living entity is butchery, then how great a butcher is he who is killing himself? He is killing an animal, but he is killing himself. Ātma-hā. Ātma-hā, self-killing, out of ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance. Any sinful activity is done out of ignorance. So ignorance is no excuse. The butcher is killing animal because he does not know what is the effect of this killing. Similarly, persons who do not know what is the value of this human form of life and simply spoiling it just like animals, they are also butchering themselves.

*There is a nice instructive verse in Sanskrit. One saintly person was giving his blessings to different kinds of persons. So he first of all saw one boy, he was a prince, son of a king. So he blessed him, rāja*-putra. "My dear prince," ciraṁ jīva, "you live forever." Then he saw one brahmacārī, a disciple of a spiritual master, he said, mā jīva muni-putraka: "Oh, you are the disciple of a saintly person. You do not live. You die immediately." Rāja-putra ciraṁ jīva. "Oh, the prince, son of a king, you live forever; *and you are a brahmacārī, muni*-putra, a son of a saintly person, so you die immediately." Then there was a saintly person, and he said to the saintly... He offered his blessings to the saintly person, jīva vā mara vā sādhoḥ. Sādhoḥ means saintly person, sādhu. "My dear saintly person, either you live or you die as you like." And there was a butcher. He told for the butcher, mā jīva mā mara iti: "You neither live nor die." So what is the significance of these four kinds of blessings? The significance is that he blessed the rāja-putra, royal prince, to live forever because whatever enjoyment he's having, this is for this life. Next life is very horrible for him, next life. Just like generally in the opulent countries like America and other European countries, they are materially very opulent, they do not care for anything. They do anything, whatever they like, because they are very much proud of their material opulence. But they do not care what they are going to be next life, you see. Therefore so long they live, that is good for them. As soon as they die, they are going to the darkest region of the hell. Therefore the prince, the king's son, was blessed, "You live forever," and so far the brahmacārī, brahmacārī or the son of a muni, he is undergoing penance, austerities, fasting, not very comfortable life. So he was blessed that "You die immediately." Because by his pious activities he has elevated himself so high that as soon as he dies, he goes to Vaikuṇṭha, kingdom of God. Therefore the sooner he dies is better. So muni-putra, ma jīva muni-putraka. And so far saintly person, sādhu, he said, jīva vā mara vā. A saintly person, "Either you live or die, the same thing. Because you are serving Kṛṣṇa in this life, and as soon as you die, you will serve Kṛṣṇa directly. So it is all the same." And so far the butcher is concerned, he said, mā jīva mā mara: "You don't die, don't live." "Don't live" means, "You are living in such a wretched condition, killing every day. Horrible life. Your living is horrible, and if you die, you are going to the darkest region of the hellish condition. So both life, living or dying, it is very horrible for you. So you don't live, don't die." (laughs) So that is the blessing to the butcher, "Don't live, don't die." Living condition is also horrible, and after death it is also horrible. But unfortunately, every one of us is committing butchery without understanding self-realization, what is self, "What I am." Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says, "Try to understand yourself." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life is meant for searching out, understanding, inquiring, about Brahman. We are all Brahmans. Because we are part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman, therefore we are all Brahman. So if we do not inquire what is Brahman, then that is suicide. In the human form of life, if you do not make inquiries what is brahma, athāto brahma jijñāsā... Jijñāsā means inquiry. This is the first aphorism in the Vedānta-sūtra, that atha. Atha means thus. Ataḥ, ataḥ means hereafter. "Hereafter" means that we have passed through 8,400,000 of species of life; now we have got civilized form of human body; now it is the time to inquire what I am, what is God, what is my relationship with God.

*So in every human society there is such inquiry and there is some answer also. So cultivating this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, is essential. If we do not take to these inquiries, simply if we engage ourself in the animal propensities... Because this material body is animal body, but the consciousness is developed. In the animal body or in the lower than animal body-just like trees and plants, they are also living entities*-the consciousness is not developed. If you cut a tree, because the consciousness is not developed, it does not protest. But it feels the pain. That is scientifically proved by Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose. It feels. But the feeling is not so strong. But if you kill one animal, it protests because the consciousness is developed. Similarly if you kill a man, that protest is still vehement because the consciousness is still more advanced. So in this way, in different forms of life, we are developing different types of consciousness. Just like this child, because it has got a certain type of body, its consciousness is not so developed. But when this body will be grown up, when this girl will be young, then her consciousness also will be different. Not will be, it will develop. Similarly, our consciousness should develop. The perfection, the ultimate goal, the limit of development is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The consciousness is developing one after another in different bodies, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that is the ultimate development. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. This is the definition how consciousness reaches its perfection. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. That perfection is reached after many, many births. Just like aquatics, plants, trees, reptiles, birds, beasts, then uncivilized human form of body, then civilized form of body, and especially the Vedic style of body. That is considered to be the highest perfectional body. And Vedic perfectional stage also achieves the highest goal when it is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest goal of life. We should always remember. And Bhagavad-gītā says bahūnāṁ janmanaṁ ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of evolution, one after another, one after another, one after another*-that evolution is going, every moment-so when one is perfectly wise, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. Jñānavān means perfectly wise. Jñāna means knowledge, and vān means one who has. The Sanskrit word vān... Just like bhagavān. Bhaga means opulence, and vān means one who has. So Bhagavān means one who has got six kinds of opulences in full. Every Sanskrit word has got its root meaning. It is not... Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got His root meaning. Kṛṣṇa, "the greatest." Kṛṣ, and ṇa means negation. There are different meanings, but this is one of the meanings. Another Kṛṣṇa meaning is "all-attractive." So God is great. That very idea is perfectly expressed in the word Kṛṣṇa. So bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Jnanavān means who has attained, who has possessed, who is in possession of highest wisdom. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate.

And what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Kṛṣṇa says, "One who surrenders unto Me. One who comes to Me and surrenders, 'My dear Kṛṣṇa, I now understand that You are my eternal protector, You are my eternal friend, You are my eternal maintainer. I forgot You; *now I understand. So I come to You and surrender. Please give me protection.' " This is called śaraṇāgati. So he is wisest man, and he continues to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. What is that mām? If Kṛṣṇa says, "unto Me." So "unto Me," Kṛṣṇa is everything. Because He is the Supreme Lord, therefore He is everything. But what sort of? Vāsudeva. That form of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva means the son of Vasudeva. That means the Kṛṣṇa of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam who appeared Himself as the son of Vasudeva, Vāsudeva. Son of Vasudeva is known as Vāsudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. And Vāsudeva is all-pervasive. Whatever we see, whatever we experience, that is expansion of Vāsudeva's energy. So one who understands... In the Ninth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: [Bg. 9.4] "Everything, whatever you see, I am there. It is My expansion." mayā tatam idam. Tatam means expanded. "I have been expanded everywhere." Just like this watch, this is also Kṛṣṇa. This is also Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvāda philosophy, they misunderstand that if Kṛṣṇa has expanded to become this watch, to become this pot, to become this light, to become this room, to become this cloth, then Kṛṣṇa is finished. No more Kṛṣṇa. That is impersonalism. But that is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa exists. That is also confirmed by the Vedas. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. The Absolute Truth is so perfect that if perfectly taken from the perfect, everything is taken, still He's there. Just like this is a watch. If you take its hands, if you take its glass, if you take its machine, then what remains there? Nothing. It becomes zero. But Kṛṣṇa is so full and complete, if you take millions of Kṛṣṇa from Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is still there. That is Kṛṣṇa's omnipotency. God is omnipotent. They do not understand what is this omnipotency. They say some words, "almighty," "omnipotent," but they do not understand what is this omnipotence. Just like even from material example we can see that the sun planet diffusing... I do not know how much temperature, what is the degree of that temperature, diffusing for millions and millions of years. Still, the temperature is the same. If it is possible to a material thing which is an insignificant creation of God, if the sun is so much omnipotent... Not omnipotent. The sun's light or the sunshine is from, derived from Kṛṣṇa's spiritual potency. But we can see that it is so much potent that diffusing sunshine for millions of years. There is no decrease of temperature. So vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19] means Vāsudeva expands Himself in so many universes, so many planets, so many paraphernalia, still, He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātmā bhuto [Bs. 5.37]. He is enjoying in His planet Goloka Vṛndāvana, and still, He is all-pervasive. mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam jagat avyakta-mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4].

*So when one comes to this understanding that Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, He keeps Himself intact although He is all*-pervasive... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. Mahātmā means great soul. Just like you have heard the name of Mahatma Gandhi in our country, but the definition of mahātmā in Bhagavad-gītā is different. A mahātmā is not a politician. A mahātmā is not for the Indians and not for the Americans or any certain limited circle. Mahātmā is not like that. Of course, the Indian people awarded the title "Mahatma" Gandhi, but mahātmā means a different... Mahātmā's definition is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There it is stated, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daiviṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.13]. A mahātmā is under the shelter of the internal potency of God. There are two kinds of potencies. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You should read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. You'll understand everything. Aparā and parā. These are stated. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca... bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. The Lord said, material world, what is this material world? This material world is composition of earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is gross element, gross ingredients. But there are finer, subtle ingredients, mind, intelligence, ego. So these eight gross and fine elements which is the material world, that is expressed in the Bhagavad-gītā that bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā, "These eight kinds of prakṛti, nature, is my separated inferior energy." Apareyam, this is inferior. They are inferior. Itas tv anya me prakṛtiṁ parā. Besides these eight elements, there is another prakṛti, another nature, which is superior. And what is that? We can see earth, water, fire, air, and, of course, mind we can feel, intelligence we can feel, ego also we can feel. There is feeling, although we cannot see because they are subtle. And what about the other? That is expressed in the Bhagavad-gītā, jīva bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho [Bg. 7.5], "My dear Arjuna, they are these living entity." Some of the nonsense philosophers, they are identifying the soul with the mind, with intelligence, with ego, but they are all material. The soul is different. So this is daivī prakṛti, spiritual nature. The material nature and spiritual nature.

*So mahātmā means, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmās, those who are mahātmā, they take shelter of the spiritual nature, and those who are durātmā or kśūdrātmā... Mahā means great, and just opposite to mahā means, opposite to mahā is kśūdra, small. Just like somebody is very liberal and somebody is very miser. So mahātmā is broad, broader*-minded, broader soul, whose soul has become broader. How you can become broader? If you dovetail yourself with the supreme broadest, then you become broader. Otherwise you become smaller. So this is the difference between mahātmā and kśūdrātmā. People are generally, they are doing something for his own body, something for his society, something for his family, something for his country. So you can expand your activities, but unless you expand your activities to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become the smaller. So,

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ

*bhajanty*-ananya manaso

(jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam)

[Bg. 9.13]



So mahātmā means Kṛṣṇa conscious, who is unalloyedly attached to the loving transcendental service of Kṛṣṇa. Bhajanti mām ananya manaso, this is the definition of mahātmā. Anyone who is cent percent engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, he is mahātmā. Not by stamping, that "You are mahātmā, I am mahātmā." No. This is the definition of mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Daivī prakṛti means they are no more interested with this material world. They are interested with the spiritual energy. Because we are spiritual energy. We are... The same energy, we are seeking after the same energy. Just like water can mix with water. Oil cannot mix with water. If you put a drop of oil with water, the oil will remain separate. But if you put a drop of water with water, immediately mixes. Similarly we are spirit soul. As soon as we are in the spiritual world, in spiritual activities, then we are one. There is no discordance. There is no opposing elements. But so long we exist in the material world, everything opposing. Everything opposing. Therefore it is struggle. Struggle for existence. Suppose if you are thrown into the sea, however expert swimmer you may be, it is struggle. It is struggle for existence. But if you are on the land, there is no such struggle. You live natural life. Similarly, mahātmā, those who have become broader by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa after many, many births... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. Ante means after. Janma means birth. And fully understanding that everything is Kṛṣṇa, everything is display of Kṛṣṇa's energy.



*So Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy, there are two things. So we are praying, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare means we are praying to the energy, the internal energy, the spiritual energy, Rādhārāṇī. Hare. We are praying "Hare, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa is always with energy. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, has many multifarious energies. Whatever we are seeing, it is all manifestation of His energy. So we are praying both to the energy. We are praying to the material energy also*-material energy also, perverted reflection of the spiritual energy. Actually, there is no material energy. Everything is spiritual. But when the spiritual energy is covered by ignorance... Just like when the sky is covered by cloud it becomes dark. Similarly, spiritual energy, when it is covered by material energy... The cloud has no separate existence. It is also creation of the sunshine. Similarly, the material energy has also no separate existence. It is also creation of Kṛṣṇa, but it appears and disappears. The spiritual energy remains. So when we dovetail ourself with the spiritual energy, then we become perfect. That is our perfection. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dovetailing ourself with the spiritual energy and thus become perfect. And this human form of life is meant for that purpose.

*So we are following the six Gosvāmīs. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau. Always chanting and dancing and chanting... What is chanting? Not any slogan, but Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. This is chanting. Chanting does not mean that you chant like some parrot, no. Chanting Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana. Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Kīrtanam, chanting, and śravanam, hearing, what? There are so many subject matters of chanting and hearing. No. Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. So chanting and hearing, this was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya and followed by the six Gosvāmīs, and we are also following in the footprints of the six Gosvāmīs. Therefore we should offer our respectful obeisances, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva gopālakau. We offer our respectful obeisances to Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, and to Raghunātha Gosvāmī and Jīva Gosvāmī and Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Come on. Where you have been, Vāmanadeva?

Vāmanadeva: I'm working. I have a job.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Vāmanadeva: ...making furniture, working with wood. I'm learning a lot so I can make nice thrones.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's all right. So any question?



*Woman: Is there anyone similar to Joan of Arc in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam?



Prabhupāda: Hmm?



Woman: Are you familiar with Joan of Arc? She was a saint.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Woman: Is there any person in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam similar to her?



*Prabhupāda: You want to see Joan of Arc in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam? Why don't you take Joan of Arc of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam? Any activities of devotees, that is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. What do you mean by Bhāgavatam? Bhāgavatam, Bhāgavatam, Bhāgav, this word comes from Bhagavān. Bhāgavata, Bhāgavad-śabda. The word is Bhāgavata. And pertaining to Bhāgavata is Bhāgavata. So Bhāgavata can be expanded to any unlimited. So anything in relationship with God, that is Bhāgavatam. So if Joan of Arc, she was in relationship with God, she is also Bhāgavatam. You should expand Bhāgavatam in that way. Yes.



Madhudviṣa: Recently it said in the newspaper where the scientists were sending a sputnik around the moon. I have read in your *Easy Journey to Other Planets* that no matter how many endeavors they make, they will never reach these other planets. Is this...?



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not the process of reaching. This is childish. That also I have made statement, this is childish. You cannot go to the moon planet in that way. It is not possible. They'll simply create story, but they'll never be successful.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will we know Kṛṣṇa as well by thinking always how can we spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Is this the... be good to know Kṛṣṇa as much as if you study thoroughly the *Vedas*?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Siddhānta boliyā citte nā kara alasa. You have to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. There are so many books. The Gosvāmīs were doing that. In the next verse... I have explained one verse. The next verse is nānā-śāstra*-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. They were very much expert in studying very scrutinizingly all Vedic literatures. So, of course, reading or hearing. You may not have time to read, but try to read. If you have no time, you are hearing. We are publishing, we are publishing literature, books. I am trying to speak to you. That is also understanding, studying Kṛṣṇa science. Rather, hearing is better reception. If you hear... That Vedas are therefore known as śruti. Śruti means it is received through hearing. Real process is hearing. And this age, Kali-yuga, people cannot study so much. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was called by Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, He presented Himself that "What can I understand, Vedānta-sūtra? I am a fool. Therefore My spiritual master has ordered Me to simply chant." So this chanting will help you. Yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau [ŚU 6.23]. Simply by studying, becoming bookworm, you cannot advance. The real secret is... That is stated in the Vedas. Unflinching faith in God and spiritual master. Then things will be revealed from within. How much strength we have got to study all these books? But Vedas says, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau. If one has got unflinching faith in God and similar faith in the spiritual master, tasyaite kathitā hy arthaḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ, to him only the Vedic knowledge becomes revealed. And this is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Lord Kṛṣṇa says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajataṁ prīti-pūrvakam: [Bg. 10.10] "Those who are engaged in My service with love and affection, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam, I personally give him intelligence, yena mām upayanti te, by which he can come to Me." In another place, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, teṣām evānukampārtham: [Bg. 10.11] "In order to show these devotees special favor, teṣāṁ evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy, I personally dissipate their darkness within the heart." Everything, the mind is full of darkness; *therefore we are conditioned. So Kṛṣṇa, from within He drives away the darkness of ignorance. Aham ajñāna*-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy. Aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva, just like that.



So He is within you. If you are sincere to Him and to the instruction, following, then everything will come out automatically even if you don't read. This is the special significance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that we want simply sincere soul; *then everything is there. You study or no study. But for preaching work, studying required. If you are..., because you have to meet so many opposing elements, so if you can give some reference from books of authority. But even if you don't give references, you can speak logically, you can place arguments logically. So Kṛṣṇa will help, Kṛṣṇa is within you. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa is without. He's without and within, both. That is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. When Kṛṣṇa was standing before Kuntī and He also entered within the womb of Uttarā to save Parīkṣit Mahārāja, so Kuntī said that "I see that You are within and without. Still, You are unseen." God is within and without, but the rascals cannot see. They say, "Where is God? Can you show me?" But He is always everywhere, within and without. So one has to train himself how to see. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. One has to anoint the eyes with love of God. Then he can see. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Santaḥ, saintly person. Sant. Just like your San Francisco, the Sant (Saint) is Sanskrit word, santaḥ. The saint word is Sanskrit word. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Those who are saints, sants, they always see God within and without. They have got eyes to see. What is that special eyes? That is love of God, that's all.

Viṣṇujana: Lord Jesus Christ said that if you would see God, your eye must be single. Was he referring to that same statement that love of God is that single eye?



Prabhupāda: That means your one eye will be lost? What do you mean by that?



Viṣṇujana: Just he stated it that...



Prabhupāda: No, what do you understand by that? Your eyes will be single, is that the...? Then what do you mean? What do you understand by this statement?



*Viṣṇujana: I understand that your attention would be one*-pointed on God.



*Prabhupāda: That's it! That's it. When you actually see God, you cannot see anything except God. That is God*-seeing. That is stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, sthavor jaṅgam dekhe na dekhe tava mūrti. A highly-elevated devotee, first-class devotee, he sees trees or the animals are moving, nonmoving, so many varieties, but he does not see their form. Everywhere he sees Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayayaḥ yaḥ [Bg. 14.4]. There are millions of varieties of forms of life, but I am the seed-giving father. So a devotee sees, "Oh, here is a son of Kṛṣṇa. Here is a son of Kṛṣṇa. Here is a son of Kṛṣṇa. Here is a son of Kṛṣṇa." So if you love somebody, as soon as you see his son, you immediately remember who's son he is. Therefore he sees the tree but immediately remembers, "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." He sees a dog; he immediately sees Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, he is Kṛṣṇa's." He sees a watch; *he immediately sees, "It is Kṛṣṇa's." Therefore he is single*-eyed, Kṛṣṇa. That's all. He has no other, any other vision. Everything Kṛṣṇa's. Therefore he wants to take everything towards Kṛṣṇa, "Please come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are missing. You are Kṛṣṇa's. Why you are identifying with this nonsense? Why you are thinking American, American, Indian, or this or that? You are Kṛṣṇa's. Come to Kṛṣṇa." This is our propaganda. We want to give eyes to the people. They are blind and their leaders are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know what is their ultimate goal of life, this Kṛṣṇa, God. So what Lord Jesus Christ says, it is right. So have saṅkīrtana. Or any other question? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana-Prema-dhvāṇī) (aside:) Stop it. (end)



Arrival Addresses and Talks





690911AR.LON

Arrival Address

-

London, September 11, 1969



(kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: ...but I'm not very much fond of reception. I want to know how people give reception to this movement. That is my concern.



Devotees: Haribol!



Reporter: How long will you be in England, sir?



Prabhupāda: England, I think I am coming for the second time. Last time, in 1967, when I was going to India I stayed here for two days only and then went away. Practically, this is the first time I have come.



Reporter: And for how long?



Prabhupāda: That I do not know.



Devotees: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: I have got so many fathers and mothers to take care, so as long as they keep me, I can be.



Mukunda: If any of you gentlemen have questions, you can ask them of Prabhupāda.



Reporter: Yes. Can I ask is this is a very special welcome for you, or is this a performance that you go through each day?



Prabhupāda: No. Wherever I go, I have got my disciples. In the Western countries I have got now about twenty centers, especially in America, Canada. So the American boys are very enthusiastic. I think...



Devotees: Haribol!



*Prabhupāda: I think I got in Los Angeles and San Francisco a very great reception. And in Ratha*-yātrā festival about ten thousand boys and girls followed me for seven miles.



Devotees: Haribol!



Reporter: What do you try and teach, sir?



Prabhupāda: I am trying to teach what you have forgotten.



Devotees: Haribol! Hare Kṛṣṇa! (laughter)



Reporter: Which is what?



Prabhupāda: That is God. Some of you are saying there is no God, some of you are saying God is dead, and some of you are saying God is impersonal or void. These are all nonsense. I want to teach all these nonsense that there is God. That is my mission. Any nonsense can come to me, I shall prove that there is God. That is my Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is a challenge to the atheistic people. There is God. As we are sitting here face to face, you can see God face to face. If you are sincere and if you are serious, that is possible. Unfortunately, we are trying to forget God; therefore we are embracing so many miseries of life. So I am simply preaching that you have Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy. Don't be swayed away by these nonsense waves of māyā, or illusion. That is my request.



Devotees: Haribol!



Reporter: Is this singing essential to the sustenance of your faith?



*Prabhupāda: This singing is the process for clearing the dust accumulated on the heart. Our relationship with God is eternal. It cannot be broken. But due to the contact of māyā we are trying to forget Him. But if we chant this holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then māyā will not act, and we shall very quickly understand what is our relationship with God. That is the process. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The Sanskrit word is "cleansing the dirty heart." The dirty heart. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Those who are miscreants, rascals, and lowest of the mankind, and taken all knowledge, and atheistic class of men, they do not know what is God. Others, those who are virtuous, those who are inquisitive, those who are wise, they will try and they will understand what is God. So my appeal to you is that you try to understand this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a bogus movement. It is scientific, authorized. Any scientist, any philosopher and logician may come and we shall prove that there is God and we have got eternal relationship with God. So if you want to (be) happy, then you must take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise the human race is doomed. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who has no God consciousness, he has no qualification. However academically he may be very rich, he has no qualification. Manorathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. His only qualification is mental concoction. Mental concoction. That's all. He has no other qualification. So we reject all these nonsense. We simply accept a sincere soul who wants to dedicate his life for God's service. So it is not easy thing. These boys and girls who are following me, they are very elevated. They are not ordinary boys and girls. They have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Their quality is greater than any mundane erudite scholar. It is a challenge. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who has developed God consciousness, love of God, all good qualities will automatically develop in him. All good qualities. Test any of our students, how they are good, how they are advanced. Test it. Bring anyone in this world and test any one of our boys. You'll find how much difference there is in their character, in their feeling, in their consciousness. So this is the only thing. If you want peaceful society, then you must make them God conscious, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything will be automatically solved. Otherwise your so-called United Nations will not help.



Reporter: Mr. Billy Graham makes people God conscious in a different way. Can you tell me what you think of him?



*Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Billy Graham, but I am following the Vedic principle, Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. God says that "You give up all nonsense occupation, simply surrender unto Me, and I take charge of you and give you protection." This is our philosophy.



Reporter: Can I ask you some questions about your general attitudes on things going on around us? For instance, what do you feel about man going to the moon? (laughter)



Prabhupāda: This is simply a waste of time. I already commented on this when I was in San Francisco. The reporters asked me this very question. I flatly replied that it is simply waste of time and money. That's all. (laughter)



Reporter: What about something very much nearer to ourselves here in this country, and that is a war or civil disturbance is going on...



Prabhupāda: Well, war is going on.



Reporter: ...between Christians?



Prabhupāda: No. We are not Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. We are God's servant. That's all. Anyone who is God's servant, there is no disagreement. And when one is māyā's servant, servant of māyā, illusion, there is disagreement. So it doesn't matter. Our test is, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That system of religion is first class which teaches how to love God. That's all. It doesn't matter whether it is Christian religion, Muhammadan religion or Hindu religion. We shall see. If the follower of the religion has learned how to love God, then his religion is perfect. Otherwise it is useless.



Reporter: But do you not think it's worth going to such places as Ireland and trying to talk to the people out there to stop warring?



*Prabhupāda: Now, this is our talking, that the first*-class religion is that which teaches how to love God. Try to understand this. This is the simple formula.



Reporter: Yes, but don't you think it's worth going over there to try and help them?



Prabhupāda: We shall see. Suppose you are Christian. If you have developed your sense of loving God, then you are perfect, your religion is perfect. But instead of loving God, if you have developed your sense of loving dog, then you have wasted your time. That is our test. Yes. You want to ask any question?



Reporter: I think the lady wants to take you away somewhere. (Prabhupāda chuckles)



Reporter (2): I think that the wind is up.



Prabhupāda: All right.



Reporter: I should just like to know how old you are.



*Prabhupāda: I am? I am seventy*-four years old. I was born in 1896.



Reporter: Whereabouts?



Prabhupāda: In India, Calcutta.



Reporter: Are you married, sir?



Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got my sons, grandsons, my wife, all living, but I have no connection with them. I am a sannyāsī, renounced order. I have got elderly sons.



Reporter: You say you have no connection with your family?



Prabhupāda: No.



Reporter: Why?



Prabhupāda: Because I have taken sannyāsa. I have dedicated my life for Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vedic system, that certain portion of your life should simply dedicate for God. That is called sannyāsa.



Reporter: To do this, did you have to divorce?



*Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of. We do not know what is divorce. In our country there is no divorce, at least in Hindu law. Yes. Wife and husband, once combined, that is for life. There is no question of separation, in all circumstances. Either in distress or in happiness, there is no question of separation. Now our modern politicians, they have introduced this divorce law. Otherwise, according to Hindu, Manu*-saṁhitā, there is no divorce law.



Reporter: When did you renounce your family?



Prabhupāda: In 1959.



Reporter: How are they managing without you?



Prabhupāda: They are managing. My sons are grown up; they are earning. My wife is also rich man's daughter. She has got some property. So they have no problem.



Reporter: Do you ever see them at all?



Prabhupāda: No. I cannot see. I cannot see at least my wife. But if my sons and daughters come to see me, they can see. But my wife cannot see me. That is stopped. That is the system of sannyāsa. A sannyāsī cannot meet his wife again. That is renouncement. Renouncement means renouncing connection with woman, or renouncing sex life. That is renouncement.



Reporter: Coming this way, sir?



Prabhupāda: Yes. (cameras clicking)



Reporters: Thank you very much.



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



Devotees: All glories to Śrī Śrī Guru and Gaurāṅga! Haribol! (end)





710629AR.LA

Arrival Lecture

-

Los Angeles, June 29, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So I am very happy to see you again after eight months, or nine months. Ānandambudhi vardhanam. This movement is not hackneyed. Increasing the ocean of happiness. You have no experience of the ocean increasing. If the ocean increases, then the whole planet will be again overflooded. But this is an ocean of happiness. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, Lord Caitanya says, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Ambudhi. Ambudhi means ocean and ānanda means bliss. If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, as soon as our heart is cleansed... That is the first benediction of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that our heart becomes cleansed. If your heart is not cleansed, how we are participating together? Somebody is Indian, somebody is American, somebody is Canadian, somebody is African. Because on the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform the heart becomes cleansed. There are no more such consciousness that "I am this," "I am that." The only consciousness is that "I am Kṛṣṇa's." That is cleanliness of heart. As soon as we come to this platform, that "I am Kṛṣṇa's." Just like the gopīs. All the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they were thinking, "We are all Kṛṣṇa's." Central point is Kṛṣṇa. That is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. All the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, the elderly cowherd men, the boys, the girls, the trees, the river, the birds, the beasts-everyone*-they are simply thinking, "I am Kṛṣṇa's." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And as soon as we think otherwise-"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," that is material consciousness. Try to understand the simple fact that as soon as we identify with our designated body, which I am not... I am not this body, so why shall I identify myself with American or Indian? Accidentally I have got this body in America or India or Africa or in hell or heaven. That is accidental. Or by my karma. But actually, I am not this body. And if I am not this body... Generally everything we are accepting in this material world (is) on the bodily concept of life. Because I have got bodily relationship with some man or woman, I am thinking... There are thousands of men and women, but I am thinking, "This woman is mine," "This man is mine." This is a crude example. And similarly, children. Gṛha-kṣetra. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam [SB 5.5.8]. This bodily concept of life increases our delusion and we become enwrapped, entangled in material world, and we get a different type of body.



*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for releasing all these conditioned souls from this misconception of life. Anyone, any intelligent man can understand that as soon as we identify our activities with the body, then we are fool number one. That is the verdict of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is identifying himself with this body... Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. "And family members, wife, children, they are our own men. All others are enemies." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. "And the land in which we have taken birth, that is worshipable." People are sacrificing their life in so many ways. The leaders are enthusing them, "Oh, you are national of this, national of that." Falsely they are working so hard. This is the basic principle, mistake, of the modern civilization-identifying oneself with this body, which he's not. So by Kṛṣṇa kīrtana, this bodily concept of life is..., in the beginning it becomes vanquished. A tacit example: you are all boys. You have forgotten that this body is Indian or American. You are Kṛṣṇa's. This is the first installment. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If this bodily concept of life is removed, immediately all the problems of the world solved. Immediately. All these great writers, thoughtful men, philosophers, politicians, diplomats, and the United Nations, they are trying to solve the problems of the world, but they are increasing the problems. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]. How they can mitigate? It is not possible, because the basic principal mistake is there.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Bhava, bhava means this material world. Bhava means to become. Bhava and abhava. You take some, accept some body, that is bhava: "I become." And keep myself in this body for some years, utmost hundred years. Then again abhava. Abhava means another change of body. So this is very botheration, the changing of body. But one who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no more change of body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, after giving up this body, he does not accept any more material body. Then what happens to him? Kṛṣṇa says, mām eti. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: "He comes to Me." So why don't you take this simple formula? Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. How nice it is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are living in... Not heaven. Heaven is nothing for us. We are living in Vaikuṇṭha in this temple. Anyone can practically see how they came from hellish life; now they are living in Vaikuṇṭha. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice and so simple. Why people are so foolish they do not take it? What is their complaint? We are living so nicely that sometimes people are envious, that "These people have no business, no occupation, and they are living in nice house, eating nice Kṛṣṇa prasādam, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and dancing!" They're envious. But when we say, "Why don't you come here?" they will deny: "No, sir. I cannot go." (laughter) Why you are envious? You come and participate and live like us, happily. "No." That he will not. (laughter) And this is the māyā. You see? Māyā will say, "Oh, why you are going there? (laughter) You just come here in the Bowery Street, and as soon as you get some money, you purchase one bottle and lie down." That is life.

*So this is the position. But still, as living representative of Kṛṣṇa, our duty is to save these fallen conditioned souls. That is our duty. One may agree to come or not come. It doesn't matter. You try your best to bring him to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness position. Then Kṛṣṇa will be happy. "Oh, this person is trying." Because it is Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa comes. He advises, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And we are saying the same thing, that "You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious." Therefore we are living representative of Kṛṣṇa. We are saying nothing else. Our only business is to repeat the Kṛṣṇa's word. Therefore we are representative. So anyone can become representative of Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult. Simply one has to go door to door: "Please surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Is it very difficult job? Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. We can serve Kṛṣṇa in four ways. First of all, try to dedicate your life for Kṛṣṇa. That is first class. If not, then spare some of your money for Kṛṣṇa. If not, then give some words for Kṛṣṇa. Or give some intelligence. You can give. "Sir, if for organizing your this movement, we know that you require money, but I have no money. So I have got a friend. He is rich. If you come, he will help you." This is intelligence. You can serve Kṛṣṇa by intelligence. You can serve Kṛṣṇa by your money. You can serve Kṛṣṇa by your life. And at last, you can serve Kṛṣṇa by your words. Simply go door to door and request everyone, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There will be no loss on your part. The gain you will see within one week. The gain you will see within one week if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But you are not losing." What is the difficulty? So our business is like that. We should go door to door and request them, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." You'll be happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710716AR.DET

Arrival Address

-

Detroit Airport, July 16, 1971



*(prema*-dhvanī)

Devotee: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!



*Prabhupāda: It has become very satisfactory that so many devotees, boys and girls, are taking part in this great movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is very important movement because it is correcting the human civilization. There is a great defect in the modern civilization, and people are accepting this body as self, and based on this mistake in the foundation, everything is going wrong. The basic principle of civilization-accepting this body as the soul*-is the beginning of all problems. The great philosophers, scientists, theologists and thoughtful men, they do not know what is the defect. Recently I was in Moscow. I had a talk with a big professor of Indology, Professor Kotovsky. So he was speaking that "Swamijī, after this finishing, annihilation of this body, everything is finished." So I was astonished that a learned professor who is posing himself on a very advanced post, he has no idea about the soul and the body, how they are different, how the soul migrating from one body to another. And everyone is accepting this body as the self, and "There is no life after death; therefore make the best use of this bad bargain and enjoy sense gratification as far as possible." But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is checking this wrong progress of human civilization. Our first proposition is that "You are not this body; you are spirit soul. Some way or other, you are in contact with this material world, and you have got this material body, and under illusion, you are accepting something which you are not."



*So basic principle of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to correct the wrong foundation of the human civilization. In the Bhagavad*-gītā this is the beginning of spiritual knowledge. When Arjuna was identifying himself with this body and bodily relationship, Kṛṣṇa first of all corrected that "You are not this body." So if we do not understand these first steps of spiritual knowledge, then where is the question of making further progress? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. This is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yasya ātma-buddhiḥ. One who has accepted as self kuṇape tri-dhātuke, this bag of bones and flesh and blood... This body is made of... According to Vedic medicine or Vedic anatomy, it is made of three elements-mucus, bile, and air. Tri-dhātu. Apart from that medical science, this body, one who accepts this body as self and Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and persons in relationship with this body as kinsmen, own men, bhauma ijya-dhīḥ, and the land where we take our birth as worshipable, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13], he is accepted as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and khara means ass. That means animal. The animal, they accept this, that "I am this body." But human form of life, which is so advanced in knowledge...

Airport speaker: Ladies and gentlemen, I have to ask you to clear the boarding area so we can start our flight.



Prabhupāda: If... We shall stop? All right. Then we shall stop.



Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hare Kṛṣṇa!



Prabhupāda: So, so Bhagavān dāsa...



Airport speaker: Ladies and gentlemen, I have to ask you to clear the boarding area. We have a flight leaving here in about thirty minutes. We have to check it in. So if you'll kindly clear the boarding area, please. (kīrtana) (end)





710729AR.GAI

Arrival Lecture

-

Gainesville, July 29, 1971



*Prabhupāda: We see you chanting the mahā-mantra. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu predicted that in every village, town, country on the surface of the globe this saṅkīrtana movement will be spreading. So we are very much obliged to you that in this remote place, which is thousands and thousands miles away from Lord Caitanya's birthplace, Navadvīpa, and you are carrying out, to fulfill His desire, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu*-the picture is there-assisted by four others, Pañca-tattva. Kṛṣṇa appeared in five principles. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, and Nityānanda Prabhu is His immediate expansion, and Advaita Prabhu is incarnation. Gadādhara Prabhu is internal potency, and śrīvāsādi, Śrīvāsa is heading the list of His devotees. Śrīvāsa represents the marginal potency of Kṛṣṇa.



*So śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda means Kṛṣṇa complete. Just like when we speak of a king, "king'' does not mean king is alone. He, somebody says the king is coming here, it is to be understood that king with his associates coming. King does not come alone. Whenever a..., the king goes, he goes with his secretary, minister, commander, so many other people. King is never alone. There must be queen also, and queen's associates. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme king, how He can be alone? He's not alone. He's always with His associates. Therefore you see Kṛṣṇa's picture, Vṛndāvana picture. He's with His associates*-a cowherds boy, a cowherds girl, Kṛṣṇa's father Nanda Mahārāja, Mother Yaśodā. But Kṛṣṇa is not alone. Supreme..., any person, he can not be alone. Just like we are here, we are not alone. We are so many friends, so many associates. So person does not mean alone. Person means with associates. This Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, worshiping Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu means to worship Him with His associates, Pañca-tattva. Pañca-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ bhakta-rūpa-svarūpakam.

*Kṛṣṇa has appeared as a devotee. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, ordered that "You give up all engagements. Just surrender and I'll give you protection.'' But people sometimes misunderstood Him. There are many so-called commentators on the Bhagavad-gītā. They mislead people by giving some wrong commentation on Kṛṣṇa. One big scholar in India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he gives comments on a verse where is direct order of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], that "You become My devotee, always think of Me, offer your obeisances unto Me.'' But Rādhā..., Radhakrishnan comments in a different way. "This obeisances is not to the person Kṛṣṇa.'' Just see. Such a big scholar, he is misinterpreting, "Not to the person Kṛṣṇa.'' In this way, Bhagavad-gītā, although widely read all over the world, in all countries, they are being mislead by improper commentary. So we are therefore trying to present Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa as He is. And by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, it is coming out successful. For thousands of years Bhagavad-gītā was being read in foreign countries by big, big scholars, philosophers, but there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But we have started this movement, not even five years old, we have got sixty branches, and there are thousands and thousands of devotees. Why? The secret is that we have not cheated people, we have not adulterated. If you put something for sale in the market which is very pure, automatically you'll get many customers. Automatic. Because the thing is pure. If you sell pure milk, just from the farm, there will be many hundreds of customers immediately, and if you sell adulterated, homogenized water mixed milk, the milk will be sold, but not very many customers ordinarily. So anything pure will attract. That is natural. Pure love, pure foodstuff, anything pure. Pure gold. In economics also. It is said, "Bad money drives away good money.'' If you put bad money, just like nowadays the currency is some paper, paper currency, so drives away good money. Good money means gold coins. They are not to be seen. That's economic law. As soon as you put bad money, the good money will vanish.

*So try to present Kṛṣṇa as He is. People will be attracted, because everyone has got Kṛṣṇa's intimate relationship. We are all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁso jīva bhūta [Bg. 15.7], all living entities, not only human being, other than human being, everyone, all living entities. They have got different bodies only, according to their different desires and inclinations. Otherwise, every living entity from..., beginning from Brahma down to an insect, a small ant, they are all living entities, and they are all parts and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or God. We are all part and parcel of God. Therefore, just like you are part and parcel of your parent, so there is some intimate relationship with your parents. It cannot be broken, even if you are absent from home for many years. Still, when you go home, meet your parents, the old relationship*-affectionate father, mother and son-immediately you'll revive. It does not take much time-because the son was long, long away from father, and he has come back, he takes another hundred years to establish the relation. No. As soon as the father and the son is together, the natural relationship immediately revives. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original father, God is the original father. We are all His sons. Somehow or other we have left home. We have tried to enjoy material sense gratification. Kṛṣṇa has given us full facility. But we are not happy. That is not possible. Because we are separated from our original position, therefore we can not be happy. I give you one example. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of your body or my body, your body. If this finger is separated from this body it has no value, but if it is attached with this body, it has value. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa, if we're detached from God then we cannot be happy. That is a fact. There are many examples. Just like a baby, the part and parcel of the mother, crying, so many people trying to pacify the baby, taking on the lap, but still it is crying. But as soon as the baby is on the breast of the mother, immediately happy. Naturally. The baby knows, "Now I have come to the right place.'' Although it cannot speak, it cannot express, but the natural position, as soon as realized.

*Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you become brahma-bhuta... [SB 4.30.20]. Brahma-bhuta means you are brahma; *now your position is jīva*-bhūtaḥ, materially attached. That is called jīva-bhūta. Materially dressed. Brahma, spirit soul, materially dressed. That is called jīva-bhūta. Jīva-bhūta means struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Prakṛti-sthani, in the material nature they are struggling hard for existence, because that is artificial life. The same jīva, when comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is called brahma-bhūta, brahman realization, self-realization. "I am Kṛṣṇa's.'' That is self-realization. Just like the same child, crying. "I am now on the lap of my mother,'' it is happy. Similarly, when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you can become happy. Otherwise, go on crying for millions of years on different laps or different bodies. You cannot be happy.

*So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means making people directly in contact with the Supreme. Therefore immediately they're happy. I have got thousands of letters from my disciples. They're feeling so much obliged that "We have got our life. We were hopeless.'' Actually, that is the position. Without Kṛṣṇa, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are all hopeless, confused. So I am very happy to see so many nice boys and girls assembled here. So take to this process. We have got sufficient literature-books, magazines. And the simple method is, even if you do not read, suppose you are not educated, illiterate, you can not read, and still you can reach Kṛṣṇa. Bhakti, devotional service is not dependent on any material condition. Because one man is very rich, he can get Kṛṣṇa? No. Because one man is very poor, he cannot get Kṛṣṇa? No. That's not right. Because one is Hindu or Indian, he can get Kṛṣṇa, not others? No. That is also not. Kṛṣṇa is unconditionally for everyone. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: sarva yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. Otherwise, how He can be God? If He is a Hindu God, just like they describe in the dictionary that Kṛṣṇa, a Hindu God*-that is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "I am a Hindu God.'' But these rascals say Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God. This is going on. You see in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva yoniṣu kaunteya. "In all species of life.'' Sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ. There are as many different forms of life. Tāsāṁ mahad yoni, brahma: "Their mother is this material nature, and I am their seed-giving father.'' Kṛṣṇa says that. So how can Kṛṣṇa be Indian or Hindu or this or that? No. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. And the proof is that five years ago in the Western countries nobody knew what is Kṛṣṇa. How they're taking Kṛṣṇa in so loving attitude? This is the proof that Kṛṣṇa is for everyone, and everyone is for Kṛṣṇa.

*Try to understand this philosophy. Don't be mislead. It is not a sectarian religion. It is the fact. Nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. The author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, he says, nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, our love for Kṛṣṇa, is eternal fact. Everyone has got love for Kṛṣṇa. Now, somehow or other it is covered. But that has to be awakened. Just like covered fire. Sometimes fire is covered by the ashes, and if you'll fan over the fire and put some new charcoal, again the fire will awaken, very bright. So similarly, somehow or other, our love for Kṛṣṇa is covered by these material designations: "I am American,'' "I am Christian,'' "I am Hindu,'' "I am Muslim,'' "I am this,'' "I am that.'' These are all ashes. The fire is the spirit soul. So if you rightly fan it over, and you'll see very soon, the fire will come out again. So how fanning? Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. You kindly hear about Kṛṣṇa śuddha-citta, without any embarrassment, without being biased to something else. Śuddha-citte. If you... then Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or love for Kṛṣṇa, will automatically awaken, simply by hearing. That is happening. What we are doing? We are chanting everywhere "Hare Kṛṣṇa,'' and people are coming for hearing. We're not bribing them that "You take some money and become a member of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.'' Rather they are paying. So how it is happening, unless that Kṛṣṇa consciousness (is) within him? Try to understand that. Everyone, it doesn't matter when he is born, what he is, what profession he's not-whatever he may be. Simply if he hears about Kṛṣṇa. Just like after very, very long time, if you hear something which was very intimately known to you, you immediately become attracted: "Oh, that sound is again coming.'' You see. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is our original father. As soon as we hear about Kṛṣṇa, naturally we shall be inclined to hear about Him more and more. So the more you hear, the more you become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and more our life becomes successful. Then you go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process.

*So I'm very glad that you are so many boys and girls taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So please come here. You have got a very nice place. Discuss about Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa through philosophy, through science, through your intelligence-not that blindly-and you will be surely understanding what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa your life is successful. You become happy in this life, and if you execute properly Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then next life you'll go immediately to Kṛṣṇa for eternal blissful life of knowledge, sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ: "Anyone who knows Me in fact, in truth, the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. That person, after giving up this body, he never comes again to this material world.'' This material world, so long we have got desire to enjoy this material world, Kṛṣṇa will give you different bodies, as you like. You can have your body in America, you can have your body in China, you can have your body in Russia, or in the moon planet-wherever you like. You simply desire, and it will be fulfilled in your next life. Desire means if you strongly desire till the point of your death, then next life your are going to get. That is nature's arrangement. So why should we desire for any other life? We should desire to go back to Kṛṣṇa, tyaktva dehaṁ punar janma [Bg. 4.9], then you'll not get any material body. Then punar janma naiti, he does not get this material body. Then what happens to him? Mām eti: "He comes to Me.'' Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā. And as soon as you go there, you become associate of Kṛṣṇa in so many loving relationships. You can serve Kṛṣṇa passively, as Vṛndāvana land, as tree, as water, so many, as flowers, as fruits. This is called śānta rasa. And next you can serve Kṛṣṇa. If you like to serve Kṛṣṇa, you can serve Him as servant. Next, you can become friend of Kṛṣṇa, as a boyfriend or girlfriend. Next, you can become father and mother of Kṛṣṇa. Yaśodā and Nanda, Nanda Mahārāja, there're serving Kṛṣṇa, accepting Kṛṣṇa as their on, because the son is served. Son takes service from the parents. So devotees, they do not like to accept Kṛṣṇa as father. They would like to have Kṛṣṇa as their son. Father means to exact "Father give me this. I want. Mother give me this''*-to take service. And to accept God as son means to give service.

So devotees, they want to give service only. They do not want in exchange from Kṛṣṇa anything. That is pure love. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was teaching like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye: [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4] "My dear Lord, I do not want from You any amount of riches, dhanam; janam, any number of followers.'' Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitād, "not very nice, beautiful, attractive wife. I do not want all these things.'' Because materially we want all these things. All these people are struggling very hard. What for? For riches. "Money, money. Where is money? Where is money?'' And then, as soon as he has got some money, then he wants to be minister, or president, or governor. Janam, followers, there will be so many followers. Na dhanam, na janam. And very beautiful wife or husband for sense gratification. These things are wanted for materially ambitious people. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I don't want all these things.'' He's teaching, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. Then what You want? Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi: [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4] "I simply want that I may take My birth anywhere, it doesn't matter, but let Me become Your servant. Let Me become Your devotee.'' That is the aspiration of pure devotee.

So as soon as we shall require any material things, the Kṛṣṇa will give us opportunity. But that is not very good proposal. In the material life, either your very rich man or demigod, or in the higher planetary system, or as insect or any royal person anywhere, the threefold miseries of material existence there must be. Every intelligent man should be aspiring for Kṛṣṇa only and should be satisfied as Kṛṣṇa likes him to do. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand. Take to it. You'll be happy. That is our proposal.

So if anyone has got some question, you can ask.

Devotee (1): Anyone have any questions?



*Woman Guest: It seems that most of the devotees are young people, persons under thirty, under twenty*-five. Why is this so? Why hasn't the movement spread? Is this a deliberate thing, or why do you feel it hasn't spread to parents or to older people?



Prabhupāda: Why the young people go to university?



Woman Guest: I'm sorry?



Prabhupāda: Why in the university you'll find all the students are young boys and girls? Why?



Woman Guest: That's the age of education.



Prabhupāda: That's the age of Kṛṣṇa consciousness (laughter). Old fools, they cannot change their opinion. (laughter)



Woman Guest: Why just in the last five years?



Prabhupāda: Because they have got now. Before this there was no such thing. Now they have got it, they're coming.



Woman Guest: Were you trying before then?



Prabhupāda: No. Before there was no such movement in your country.



Woman Guest: I know, I know. But why did you just now...



Prabhupāda: So now they have got the thing. They are wanting it. As they have got it, they are coming.



Devotee (2): How do you develop a service attitude in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Devotee (1): (repeats) How do you develop a service attitude?



*Prabhupāda: By service. In the material world, if you give service you become tired. But transcendental world, if you give service, you more become enthusiastic. Yes, more service. That is happening. I do not pay these boys. Rather, they pay me, and they engage the service. They pay and serve. In the material world, as soon as you stop payment there is no service. Why? Because they, by serving Kṛṣṇa, they get transcendental pleasure. So the more you engage yourself in the service of the Lord, the more you become enthusiastic. There is no question of becoming tired. Just like I am old man. I have come from India. My age is seventy*-six years. So still I am enthusiastic. Still I am going everywhere, all over the world. Why? Kṛṣṇa's service is so nice. Even old man like me, he gets energy to work. And that's also without any salary. Kṛṣṇa's service is so nice that you try to engage yourself more and more. Then you'll get more and more Kṛṣṇa conscious, more enthusiasm. And this is spiritual. This is spiritual. Ahaituky apratihatā. This service cannot be checked by any material condition. That I have already explained. Other service, material service, will be checked by material conditions. But transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa will never be checked by any material condition. That is the test.



Woman Guest: Does the Kṛṣṇa movement recognize other types of service to human beings like the social workers? Teaching...



Prabhupāda: Yes, this is best service to human beings, to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Woman Guest: Is there room in the movement for other persons who are indirectly serving Kṛṣṇa rather than chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa all day?



*Prabhupāda: No, the process is, just like if you pour water on the root of the tree, the water is distributed to the leaf, branches, twigs, and they remain fresh. But if you water on the leaf only, the leaf will also dry, and the twig will be also dry. If you put your foodstuff on the stomach, then the energy will be distributed to your finger, to your hairs to your nails and everywhere. And if you take foodstuff in the hand and do not put in the stomach, it will be useless waste. So all this humanitarian service has been wasted because there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They're trying so many ways to serve the human society, but they're all being frustrated in useless attempt, because there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if people are trained to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then automatically everyone will be happy. Any one who will join, one, anyone who will hear, anyone who will cooperate*-everyone will be happy. So our process is natural process. You love God, and if you (are) actually expert in loving God, naturally you love everyone. Just like Kṛṣṇa conscious person, because he loves God, he loves the animals also. He loves birds, beasts, everyone. But so-called humanitarian love means they're loving some human being, but the animals are being killed. Why they do not love the animals? Because imperfect. But the Kṛṣṇa conscious person will never kill an animal or give trouble to animal even. But that is universal love. If you love only your brother or sister, that is not universal love. Universal love means you love everyone. That universal love can be developed by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by otherwise.



Woman Guest: I know some of the devotees have had to sever relationships, so to speak, with their material world parents, and it gives them some degree of grief, because their parents don't understand. Now what do you tell them to kind of make this easier?



*Prabhupāda: Well, a boy who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is giving the best service to his parents, families, countrymen, society. Without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, what service they are giving to their parents? Mostly they are separated. But, as Prahlāda Mahārāja was a great devotee and his father was a great nondevotee, so much so that his father was killed by Nṛsiṁhadeva, but Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was ordered by the Lord to take some benediction, he said that "I am not a merchant, Sir, that by giving You some service I'll take some return. Please excuse me.'' Nṛsiṁhadeva was very much satisfied: "Here is a pure devotee.'' But the same pure devotee requested the Lord, "My Lord, my father was atheist, and he has committed so many offenses, so I beg that my father may be liberated.'' And Nṛsiṁhadeva said, "Your father is already liberated because you are the, his son. In spite of all his offenses, he is liberated, because you are his son. Not only your father, but your father's father, his father up to seven generations, they are all liberated.'' So if Vaiṣṇava appears in a family, he liberates not only his father, but his father, his father, his father, his father, in that way. But that is the best service to the family, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Actually, it has happened. One of my students, Kārttikeya, his mother was so much fond of society that usually when he wanted to see his mother, mother says "Sit down. I am going to the dancing party.'' That was the relationship. Still, because he, this boy, is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he was talking of Kṛṣṇa to his mother many times. So at the time of death the mother asked the son, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa? He is here?'' And she immediately, she died. That means at the time of death she remembered Kṛṣṇa, and immediately she was delivered. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. At the time of death if one remembers Kṛṣṇa, then life is successful. So this mother, on account of the son, Kṛṣṇa consciousness son, she got liberated, without actually coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this is the benefit.



Woman Guest: What about the children of new devotees now? The devotees will soon be having children in the next...



Prabhupāda: They will be also Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are maintaining, raising all these children. There are so many children in our society. We have got... There is school. We are preparing special school study books for them. We are taking care of them nicely.



Woman Guest: I wondered, are you sending them, or do you advocate sending them to secular schools, or have you made arrangements...?



Prabhupāda: No, no. We admit without application. There is no need of application. You'll please come and stay with us, that's all. Our door is open. We are rather appealing to the person, "Please come.'' In ordinary institution you have to put your application. When it is sanctioned, then you are admitted. We are canvassing, "Please come, please come, please come.'' Still they are not coming.



Woman Guest: That isn't exactly what I meant. I just wondered if you made arrangements with the government to...



Prabhupāda: Yes, we're trying for that.



Woman Guest: It's still under way now?



Prabhupāda: To get our institution in New Vrindaban, the government has said that "You make such and such building.'' So we have no money, but still we are trying. So as soon as the government conditions are fulfilled, we'll get government cooperation also.



Woman Guest: Thank you.



Prabhupāda: That's all. (end)





711110AR.DEL

Arrival Lecture

-

New Delhi, November 10, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...Caitanya Mahāprabhu, paraṁ vijayate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam: All glories for the chanting of the holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So this is the verdict of Vedic literature also. When Parīkṣit Mahārāja was talking with Śukadeva Goswāmī, he described the varieties of follies in this age of kali-yuga. But he pointed out that there is one great benediction in this age. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. The faulty kali-yuga is just like an ocean of miserable condition, but there is one great opportunity. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Simply by chanting the holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa one becomes liberated, and he is elevated to the highest perfection of life. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. So Lord Caitanya preached this Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana, and He ordered every Indian. It is the duty of every Indian. We should be very much proud of becoming Indian to take our birth on the holy land of India. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. Anyone who has taken birth in this holy land of Bharata-varṣa, janma sārthaka kari': just make your life perfect and distribute the knowledge all over the world. Janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra. Para-upakāra. India is meant for doing welfare activities to the world, but we have forgotten that. We are trying to imitate the Western country and technology, and we have thrown out our Vedic treasure-house, our transcendental knowledge treasure-house. So my Guru Mahārāja ordered me long, long ago, when I was twenty-five years old, my Guru Mahārāja ordered me to go to the foreign countries and preach Lord Caitanya's message. But somehow or other I could not assimilate his order until I was seventy years old. But it was better late than never. So also I was trying how to make a successful tour for preaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message. So by the grace of my Guru Mahārāja and by your blessings, I went to the Western countries and had such a very good response, very good response. I went there empty handed with forty rupees in my pocket and free ticket, return ticket, by the Scindia Steam Navigation Company. And for one year I had no place to live, I had no money to eat; still I was going here and there. Then in 1966... I went in America in 1965. After struggling for one year, in 1966 I incorporated this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So some of our friends suggested, "Why not make 'God Consciousness Society'?'' and "No. 'Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.' If I make 'God Consciousness,' that will be a big task.'' Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah [Bs. 5.1]. Therefore this distinctly should be the society for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So these boys, when I started my class, 26 Second Avenue, some of these students were coming, and then I started my kīrtana at the Thompkins Square Park, sitting on the ground floor. These boys and the girls were coming. That was the first publicity, make in the New York Times, about my kīrtana, and gradually it developed. Next branch was opened at San Francisco, then at Montreal, then at Boston, Buffalo. In this way now we have sixty*-five branches all over the world, and each branch there are maximum two hundred devotees like these, and minimum twenty-five devotees at least. And each branch... At Los Angeles we are spending $20,000 per month, which is in Indian exchange two lakhs of rupees. Similarly, we are spending $10,000 in New York. In this way we have to spend seven lakhs of rupees per month for maintaining all these men, and we have got big, big publication like this. When I went to the Western country I brought only three volumes of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the temple of our Sri Kṛṣṇa Sharma. He gave me shelter there, and I was publishing these books, and actually Lallaji also contributed something for my publication. So in this way I went there with three books. Now we have got over three dozen books, all beautifully published. We have given enough literature to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can be understood by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu very easily, simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Simply by chanting. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. But if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa through philosophy and science, we have got three dozen books. So we can convince you in both ways. If you are illiterate, if you have no knowledge, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you will get your life back. And if you think that you want to understand through science and philosophy, we have got three dozen books. Anyway, you come. That is our appeal. Don't take this movement very, I mean to say, neglectfully. It is very serious movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and it is the duty of all Indians, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu predicted,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*There is a great need for this movement. We want hundreds and thousands of preachers to go outside India and preach this cult. And there are customers ready. Wherever we are opening our branches, it appears as if they are awaiting our arrival. Immediately they take up. So there is very great opportunity. You cannot compete with the Western countries by your technology, however you may make some sewing machine or cycle or Ambassador car. They are hundred years ahead. You cannot make any competition by machine. If you can give them anything and glorify your country, then this is this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then they will admit that you have something. Wherever I go, they inquire, "Oh, India is poverty*-stricken. Oh, you have come that part.'' India is advertised as poverty. Yes, in comparison to Western country it is simply poverty-stricken. We have not enough food, nor enough, I mean to say, house, and above all you have no milk. India, the land where we hear from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that, that the, by the cows' milk in Vṛndāvana there was muddy ground. And in that India now there is powdered milk.



*So my request is that young men, as young men from America, Europe, Canada... Now I am coming via Africa. I was in Nairobi, Mombassa. And the black men, they are also dancing. And they are asking the Indian people there, "Why did you not give us this sublime message so long?'' Because there are many Indians in Nairobi and Mombassa. Unfortunately, our swamis go there, make some collection, and preach that "I am God, you are God. Why you are searching God? Gods are loitering in the street,'' and "Make this gymnastic and you will become God in six months.'' These things are going on. But nobody was interested. Bhagavad*-gītā was taught in Europe and America for the last one thousand years, many big, big English edition. But never Kṛṣṇa was presented as He is. But as soon it was presented, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the people are accepting. Immediately they are accepting. (indistinct) Otherwise, if you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, concocted way... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. By mental concoction, you have to come back to this asat.

*So, I will not take much of your time. My appeal to you, to all of you especially, and with the help of these people, my request to you all ladies and gentlemen, (indistinct) please try to understand the potency of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and make your country... Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is in India, it is surprising that India is not serious about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have read in one government paper, Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct) or something black of origin. And people are sophisticated to worship Him. Such article has been published by the government. And average Indian can read Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. This is our intelligence, and there in the government also. So it is very unfortunate that we are not taking care of our own treasure-house of knowledge, and we are trying to get knowledge from technology and be happy. This, there is no question of peace unless you understand Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasaṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



That is the process of śāntim, and it is actually helping.



So we shall have more opportunity to explain Lord Kṛṣṇa. Now questions... (indistinct questions and answers) (end)



720518AR.LA

Arrival Lecture

-

Los Angeles, May 18, 1972



*Prabhupāda: (airport noises) (leads Prema*-dhvanī; *says "Los Angeles bhakta*-vṛnda ki jaya!") So my dear boys and girls, about six years ago I came to your country single-handed, with this pair of cymbals. Now you are so many chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is my success. It was the prediction of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu:



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra hoibe mora nāma

*(Caitanya*-bhāgavata, Antya 4.126)



*Lord Caitanya desired that "In all the towns, in as many towns and villages as there are on the surface of the globe, My name will be broadcast." He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, svayaṁ kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa caitanya*-nāmine, simply changing His name as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. So His prediction will never go in vain. That's a fact. So my plan was that "I shall go to America. America is the leading country of the world. If I can convince (the) younger generation of America, they will take up." I am old man. I came here at the age of seventy years; *now I am seventy*-six. So my warning is already there. In nineteen hundred and seventy-one, I had a severe heart attack. You know, all. So the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu is now in your hands. You are American boys and girls, very intelligent and graced by Kṛṣṇa. You are not poverty-stricken. You have enough resources, prestige. Everything materially, you are all well-equipped. If you kindly take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seriously, your country will be saved, and the whole world will be saved.



*The modern... The present human civilization is not in right order. I was coming here, and I was seeing one film, cinema, "The Boyfriend." Of course, young boy, young girl, making friendship, enjoying life*-that is not condemned. Actually, that is life. Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is young boy and young girl.

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikrtir hlādinī śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api (bhuvi purā) deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhuna tad*-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ

*rādhā*-bhāva-dyuti-suvalitaṁ naumi kṛṣṇa-svarūpam

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*This young boy and young girl trying to unite for happiness is the natural inclination of the living entity. It is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Everything that we see in this material world is there in the spiritual world. Janmādy asya yataḥ. Wherefrom everything is coming? The original source, the original source of this love, is there in the Absolute. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ. It is the manifestation of the pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So the thing as it is originally is perfect, but here, the same thing is only perverted reflection. Here, the boys and the girls meeting, because it is simply a reflection... Just like a reflection of the tree on the river, it is just topsy-turvied, similarly, that reflection, reality, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa love, is topsy-turvied here.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific, factual, authorized. Simply intelligent persons can understand it. Every human being has got intelligence, better than the animals. If you simply try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, this human life will be perfect. Here, we are trying to enjoy, but we do not know that next life, next chapter, may stop everything*-at any moment. Don't think because you are American, you have got material opulences, very comfortable life, cars, roads, buildings... That's all right. But any moment, you will be kicked out, and it may be that you'll have to accept another body which is not at all American. It may be the body of a tree or a cat or a dog. That science we must know. Don't be enamored by the flickering happiness. This happiness is there which is factual: this Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. You see Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, how He's jolly, with His cows, with His flute, with His comrades, with His boyfriend, girlfriend, how He's happy.

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*Here, you are trying to enjoy the company of young girls, but Kṛṣṇa is also doing that in the spiritual world. Sahasra-śata*-sambhrama, lakṣmī. Each girl there is a goddess of fortune. Not only one, but many hundreds and thousands. They're with great respect and reverence trying to serve Kṛṣṇa. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam. So you can also enter in the company of Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa's friend, as Kṛṣṇa's servant, as Kṛṣṇa's consort, as Kṛṣṇa's father, anything. Everything... Here also, there are five relationship: relationship between master and servant, relationship between friend and friend, relationship between father and son, and relationship between boyfriend and girlfriend. All these relationships are emanating from Kṛṣṇa. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu: the ocean of all pleasure. And Kṛṣṇa comes Himself to give you this message. Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago on this planet, and at Vṛndāvana He exhibited His real pastimes in the spiritual world, so just to give practical demonstration and to invite you there. Kṛṣṇa (is) canvassing: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].



*So we have got this message from Kṛṣṇa, from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, from the six Gosvāmīs, later on, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Bhaktisiddhānta Ṭhākura. And we are trying our bit also to distribute this knowledge. Now, tenth, eleventh, twelfth... My Guru Mahārāja is tenth from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, I am eleventh, you are the twelfth. So distribute this knowledge. People are suffering. They are simply fighting on some false thing, māyā. They should be given the real fact of happiness. We have spoiled our life, many lives, coming through the evolutionary process of 8,400,000 species of life. Here is an opportunity, human form of life, and here is the message of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa. Human form of life can understand, and especially in America you can understand. You have got better intelligence, better facility. We are not sentimental, simply chanting and dancing. We have got more than two thousand volumes of books. If you want to learn it through science, philosophy, it is also there. Otherwise, the simple method*-simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma, Rāma, Hare Hare, and you'll realize the whole thing. The child can take part, the philosopher can take part, the scientist can take part, the politician can take part, the religionist can take part, the public can take part. It is so universal. And it is open; there is no secrecy. It is not that "I shall give you some secret mantra, and give me some money, I go away." It is open.

*So I especially appeal to the Americans, whose boys and girls are helping me so much, please take this philosophy, try to understand this philosophy. Make your life successful*-your country and the whole world. You are helping other parts of the world who are not very much developed with money, resources. That is a very good idea. But in your country you do not see how the younger generation are going astray, how they're baffled and confused. You should take care of this. The flower of your country, they are becoming hopeless, confused. Try to save them. And this is the only remedy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that can save your country and the whole world.

Thank you very much. (end)



720720AR.PAR

Arrival Lecture

-

Paris, July 20, 1972



*Prabhupāda: ...saṅkīrtana movement. This saṅkīrtana movement was started by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu five hundred years ago for mitigating the sufferings of the people of the world. He predicted that in every village, in every town on the surface of the globe, let this saṅkīrtana movement be spread out and people will be happy and they'll find Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That was His prediction. Actually this is happening now. So our simple method*-we go everywhere all over the world, chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and we attract people, especially younger generation, boys and girls. Sometimes the newspaper reporters they ask me, "Why these young men and young women they are very much attracted with this movement?" I replied, "That is the success of the movement, because younger generation, they are the flowers, the future hope of the country, of the world. If they take this movement seriously then the whole world will be happy." Vedic civilization desires that everyone be happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Vedic civilization is not animal civilization, exploiting others... Giving something to others. Sometimes the people, they think that India comes to the foreign country to take qualification for earning livelihood. Actually they come here when... One of my Godbrothers long ago, he came to England Lady Willingdon challenged the preacher that "In your country the people come here, they take some degree and go to back to their country and become big man. So what you have got to teach us?" Actually, from materialistic point of view we haven't got to teach to the Western country anything. That's a fact. Because your science, your machine, (is) far advanced. But still there is a great treasure house in India, which is spiritual knowledge. You have to take from India.



*Of course, this spiritual knowledge, Vedic knowledge, is not for any particular society or country. It is meant for all. People sometimes ask me, "Eastern," "Western." Actually there is no Eastern and Western in spiritual platform. Spiritual platform is one. You are spirit soul, I'm spirit soul. So on the spiritual platform if we see, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Those who are actually learned, they are sama-darśī. They have no distinction. The exact verse of Lord Kṛṣṇa is

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śune caiva śva*-pāke ca

*panditāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*A brāhmaṇa is considered... A brāhmaṇa generally becomes very learned, vidyā*-vinaya, very gentle. So one brāhmaṇa who is qualified with gentle qualities and high learning vidyā-vinaya-sampanne, and a cow, an animal, and an elephant, a dog, a low-born caṇḍāla, all these living entities... A learned man sees all of them on the equal level because a learned man who is actually on the spiritual platform, he knows that "Here is a dog and here is a learned brāhmaṇa. By their karma they have got different dress only, but within the brāhmaṇa, within the dog the same spirit soul is there." So our material platform we distinguish, "I am Indian, you are Frenchman, he's Englishman, he's American, he's cat, he's dog." This is the vision of the material platform. In the spiritual platform we can see that every living entity is part and parcel of God, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: mām evāṁśa jīva-bhūta. Every living entity. It doesn't matter what he is. There are 8,400,000 species of forms, but all of them, they're covered only by different dresses. Just like you Frenchmen, you may be differently dressed, and Englishman may be differently dressed. But dress is not very important. The man within the dress, he's important. Similarly, this body is not very important thing. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ [Bg. 2.18], this body is perishable. But the soul within the body, he's not perishable. Therefore this human form of life is meant for cultivating the knowledge of the nonperishable.



Unfortunately, our science, philosophy in school, college, university, they are simply concerned with the perishable, not with the imperishable. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for taking into account of the nonperishable. So it is the movement of the soul, not the movement as political movement, social movement or religious movement. They are pertaining to the perishable body. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is pertaining to the imperishable soul. Therefore our this saṅkīrtana movement, simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, your heart will be gradually cleansed so that you can come to the spiritual platform. Just like here in this movement we have got students from all countries of the world, all religions of the world. But they no more think of the particular type of religion or nation or creed or color. No. All of them think as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. When we come to that platform and when we engage ourself in that positional occupation, then we are liberated.

*So this movement is very important movement. It is not of course possible to give you all details within a few minutes, but if you are interested you can kindly contact with us either by correspondence or by reading our literature or by personal contact. Any way, your life will be sublime. We have not such distinction that "This is India," "This is England," "This is France," "This is Africa." We think every living entity, not only human being, even animals, birds, beasts, trees, aquatics, insects, reptiles-all are part and parcel of God. But the lower animals, the aquatics, birds, beasts, trees, plants, insect*-they are unable to receive this knowledge. The human being has developed consciousness. He can receive this knowledge of spirit soul. So our only request is that do not take this movement as a religious movement. It is the movement of the soul. It is very scientific, based on authority. And practically we are seeing, we are getting good response all over the world. We have got over hundred branches. Even Africa we have got many branches. Canada, Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand-everywhere. So our only request is the leaders of the nation, the scientist, the philosopher, may kindly take some interest in this movement. We can talk with them. We have got many literatures, big, big books, scientifically explained, philosophical explained. So our only request is that you come forward and try to understand this philosophy and spread for the benefit of the whole human society.

Thank you very much. (end)



730405AR.NY

Arrival Address

-

New York, April 5, 1973



*Prabhupāda: (prema*-dhvanī) Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for kindly receiving me in this honorable way. According to our Vaiṣṇava philosophy, whatever honor is offered to the spiritual master, that is transferred to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. Our this philosophy, Vaiṣṇava philosophy, it teaches that if you please your spiritual master, then God is also pleased. Because the spiritual master is the most confidential servant of God, therefore by honoring the spiritual master, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is honored. Just like in English language there is the word, "If you love me, love my dog." So the spiritual master is the "dog" of God; therefore if the spiritual master is patted, God is very much pleased.



*Now, so far our movement is concerned, you know, more or less, about our movement. But you should know that this is the most scientific, authorized movement in the human society, because the movement is based on the authority of Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead for the benefit of the whole human society. Do not take Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa as something sectarian-"Hindu God," "Hindu scripture." No. It is meant for everyone. These names, "Hindu," "Muslim," "Christians," or "Buddhist," these are the designation of the body. Actual religion is different. Actual religion means to understand God and to develop your love for God. That is actual religion. It doesn't matter through which religion you develop your love for God, but the test is, you are first-class religionist if you have developed your dormant love of God. So this movement is meant for awakening the dormant love of God. So the subject matter is very serious. We are distributing the subject matter in so many books. We have already big, big books, about twenty books, and small books also. Just now one book published, "Rāja-vidyā, the King of Knowledge." There are different kinds of knowledges. But as there are different types of citizens but in the state there is a king or the president, similarly, there are different types of knowledge, but we are distributing the king of knowledge, God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So the necessity of this movement is that we are creating brain. At the present moment the human society is lacking brain. Exactly they are living like cats and dogs, not with human brain. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The human society must be divided into four classes of divisions, or divisions, catur-varṇya: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, and the śūdra. Brāhmaṇa means the most intelligent class of men, and kṣatriya means administrators, and the vaiśya means mercantile people, and śūdra means ordinary workers. All of them are required proportionately. Just like to keep up your body you require your head, you require your arms, you require your belly, and you require your legs also. Comparatively studying, head is very important than the leg, but that does not mean leg is unimportant. Everything wanted for the upkeep of the body. Similarly, for upkeep of the society, human society, there must be intelligent class of men, there must be administrator class of men, there must be productive class of men and there must be worker class of men. At the present moment, the human society is giving stress on the mercantile class of men and worker class of men. Actually, there is no intelligent class of men or administrative class of men. So our movement is creating some intelligent class of men. According to our Vedic knowledge, the first-class intelligent man is he who knows what is God. He's first-class intelligent man. Otherwise cats and dogs, they also eat, sleep, have sexual intercourse, and die.

*So this life is not very congenial to the human society. The chaotic situation of the present human society is due to that there is no intelligent class of men. This is our challenge. The so*-called scientists, so-called philosophers, they have no intelligence. Therefore the whole society (is) in the chaotic condition. So these boys and girls, American boys and girls, they're being taught, instructed to become first-class, intelligent man. This is the movement. But without intelligence... Just like your brain, if he, if brain is crazy, your body may be very strong, but that is useless because there is no brain. So at the present moment, especially in this Kali-yuga, there is lack of intelligent class of men, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is creating some intelligent class of men. And if other class of men follow their instruction, then the whole society (will be) peaceful, and they'll be happy in this life and they'll be happy in the next life. This is the sum and substance of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Those who are interested will kindly come to our temple here in... We have got so many temples, and we have got our temple here also, New York. And there are preachers also. We have got good preachers. And educated boys and girls. We have got books. So my only request is that you take some interest, active interest in this movement, try to understand it, and if you cooperate, the whole human society will be happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730413AR.LA

Arrival Lecture

-

Los Angeles, April 13, 1973





*Prabhupāda: So I am very glad to see you again, and especially to see Śrīman Rādhā*-Mādhava, Gaura-Nitāi is being worshiped nicely. Thank you very much. So my journey was in India, Australia, New Zealand. I was to go to Africa also, but I could not go. Everywhere our International Society members are worshiping very nicely. In Australia-Sydney, Melbourne-Deity worship is going on very nicely. Similarly in New Zealand, Auckland. They have also purchased one house, and worship is going on nicely. New York, they are also doing very nicely, and you are also doing very nicely. Perhaps you are still going ahead. Yes. I am very much thankful to you that Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, came to your country. He wanted to come here, and you have well received and worship Him. Serve Him. He will be happy. Introduce this movement all over your country. America is favored country. Little misguided about spiritual affairs, but if you introduce this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in right way, keeping yourself to the standard, then people will accept it gradually.



*Of course, it is not so easy to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One must be very fortunate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Bhāgyavān jīva means fortunate. Unless one is very, very fortunate, one cannot take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetthi māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Out of many millions of men, one tries to make his life successful. Make his life means to distinguish oneself from the animals. Animal life is meant for sense gratification. So one who searches after real happiness*-ramante yogino anante-unlimited happiness, he rejects this. One who is satisfied with temporary happiness, he'll not reject it. Although antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23]. Those who are satisfied with temporary happiness, they're not very intelligent. Tad bhavaty alpa-medha, alpa-medha. Those who have got little brain, they are satisfied with temporary, and those who are advanced, yogis, they are not satisfied with temporary happiness. They must be seeking for unlimited happiness. That can be achieved when you (go) back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, His pastimes are eternal. Just join with Kṛṣṇa, His rasa dance, His play with cowherd boys, His dealing with His father and mother in Vṛndāvana.



*So our, this movement is to join Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma, punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Simply if you try to understand Kṛṣṇa... That is not very difficult. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, what is Kṛṣṇa. And further explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So if you simply read our books, follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, it will be not very difficult. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. Things will reveal to you. So if you, in this life, simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. What is that success? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this material body, no more acceptance of material body; *we remain in our spiritual body. We have got our spiritual body. That is now covered by the material dress, subtle dress and gross dress. So if we give up the propensity for material sense gratification, that is mukti. So long we have a pinch, a drop of desire to enjoy material happiness, we'll have to accept a body, different types of body, out of the 8,400,000. But if we become satisfied with service of Kṛṣṇa, then we have no more interest with this material happiness. That is mukti. When we shall be detestful with this material happiness... (indistinct) Just like Jagāi*-Mādhāi. (indistinct) No more (indistinct). That is mukti. Kṛṣṇa will give you all facility. He'll give you facilities, whatever you want. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy a... [Bg. 4.11]. Therefore we see varieties of life. It is arranged by Kṛṣṇa through the agency of material potency. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar... [Bg. 3.27]. It is going on. But if we say, "Kṛṣṇa...," to Kṛṣṇa, "Now, from this day, I surrender unto You. My Lord, I don't want anything material," then you are mukta, liberated. And if you keep the standard, māyā will not touch you. Just after giving up this body, you go back to home, back to Godhead. It is very easy.

*So try to understand and be happy. Continue this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in right earnest. So Kṛṣṇa will help you. Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam [Bg. 10.10]. Anyone who's engaged with heart and soul in the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa will give him, everyone, He'll give you full intelligence: "Do like this. Do like this." Yena mām upayānti. He gives such intelligence by which you can go back to Him again.

Thank you very much. We shall talk again. (end)



730707AR.LON

Arrival Address

-

London, July 7, 1973



*Prabhupāda: ...given the facility of assembling in this nice house, this good boy George Harrison, we must give him all glories. We must be thankful to him that he has given us the facility, and Kṛṣṇa will bless him more and more. So far Gopījana*-vallabha, Rādhā-Mādhava, our simple worshipable Supreme Personality of Godhead, Rādhā-Mādhava, He is always enjoying in company with Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, Rādhā-Mādhava. He does not go outside Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, original Kṛṣṇa, He does not go even a step out of Vṛndāvana, leaving aside the gopīs. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ kutra gacchati. He does not go anywhere.



*So people are making research to find out God. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said,

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*Govinda, panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ. Those who are searching after God... Those who are not searching, they are useless. Those who are searching, jñānī, jijñāsu, so they are searching after God, but if they try to approach God, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara, by... Just like airplane. I have come here within twelve hours, from Calcutta to London. So not this airplane, but panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampra..., vāyor athāpi. Vāyu. If... This airplane is floating on the air, but if the air becomes airplane itself or the mind becomes... You know the speed of mind. You can go on the mind millions of miles within a second. That science has not yet discovered, how to go in the speed of mind. The yogis know. The perfect yogis, they can travel on the speed of mind. That is also material science. So even on the speed of mind, or on the speed of the velocity of the air, if you try to go to approach God, find out where is God... And the time? Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara. Not one day, two day, or one hour, two hour, but many millions of years, koṭi-śata-vatsara. Koṭi-śata-vatsara, with the speed of mind or air velocity, if you go to find out God, still, avicintya-tattva, inconceivable, inconceivable.



*So Kṛṣṇa is not so easy to approach by the nondevotees. Vedeṣu durlabha. Or even by studying Vedas, durlabha. Durlabha means not approachable, not approachable. Vedeṣu durlabha adurlabha ātma*-bhaktau. But to His devotees He's very easy. He's very easy. Just like the gopīs. Gopīs, they are village girls, not educated, not brāhmaṇa, not Vedantist. But Kṛṣṇa is within their palms, within their hands. So this bhakti-yoga is so nice that Kṛṣṇa, or God, who is unapproachable by any other method-however efficient it may be, it is not possible-only by love and devotion in service He can be approached. It is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Kṛṣṇa has explained in the Bhagavad-gītā all systems-jñāna-yoga system, haṭha-yoga system, karma-yoga system, rāja-yoga system. But at the end He says that "If anyone actually wants to know Me, that is bhakti." Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. If anyone wants to know Kṛṣṇa as He is... Kṛṣṇa has different features, especially three: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]-as impersonal Brahman, all-pervasive Paramātmā, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if anyone wants to know actually what is Kṛṣṇa... Of course, it is not possible to know Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa reveals to the devotee, svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ, revelation. Just like Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. People should know. Why they are searching unnecessarily? Rascaldom. You cannot search out Kṛṣṇa, God, by speculation. If He reveals Himself by His causeless mercy, being merciful upon you, being pleased upon you, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa. You cannot search out Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. So the process is explained by Kṛṣṇa Himself:

bhaktyā mām abhijānāti

yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ

tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā

*viśate tad*-anantaram

[Bg. 18.55]



If you understand Kṛṣṇa through this process, bhakti process, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], without any motive of material gain, that is called... That is beginning of bhakti. Bhakti means without any motive of material gain. That is bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Śūnyam means zero. All material desires becoming zero, then bhakti begins. Then bhakti begins. Before that, there is no question of bhakti.



*So bhakti science is very subtle science, but it is very simple thing to the bhaktas, one who knows things as it is, a very simple thing. Similarly, those who have taken to this bhakti*-yoga seriously, for them it is very simple. For others it is very difficult. It is very difficult. Therefore we should go, approach to persons who are... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. We should approach (a) person who knows the bhakti science and... Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. And by devotional service to Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, then bhakti science becomes revealed. Without revelation, nobody can understand bhakti science, and without understanding bhakti science, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730905AR.STO

Arrival Speech

-

Stockholm, September 5, 1973



Prabhupāda: (Ladies) and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly receiving me. This is the first time I am coming in this country, Sweden. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading all over the world gradually. It is little difficult to understand the purport of this movement because it is completely on the spiritual platform. Generally, people do not understand what is spiritual platform. So as we can understand that we are combination of two things... Every one of us, living being, we are at the present moment combination of spirit and matter. Matter we can understand, but on account of our long association with the matter, we cannot understand what is that spirit. But we can imagine that there is something which distinguishes a dead body and living body. That we can understand. When a man is dead... Suppose my father is dead or somebody, a relative, is dead, we lament that "My father is no more. He has gone away." But where he has gone? The father is lying on the bed. Why do you say, "My father has gone away?" If somebody says that "Your father is lying sleeping on the bed. Why you are crying that your father has gone away? He has not gone. He is sleeping there...,"but that sleep is not this sleep, ordinary sleep as we have daily. That sleep means eternal sleep. So actually, we have no eyes to see who is my father. During the lifetime of my father I did not know who is my father; therefore when the actual father goes away, we cry that "My father is gone." So that is spirit. Who has gone away from that body, that is spirit soul; otherwise why he is speaking that "My father is gone"? The body is there.



*So first of all we have to understand this distinction between the spirit soul and this material body. If we can understand what is that spirit soul, then we can understand what is this spiritual movement. Otherwise, simply on material understanding, it is very difficult to understand what is spiritual life or spiritual platform. But there is. We can simply feel like that at the present moment, but there is a spiritual world, spiritual life. And what is that spiritual life? Complete freedom. Complete freedom. Eternity, blissful and full of knowledge. That is spiritual life. Completely distinct from this bodily concept of life. Spiritual life means eternity, blissful life of knowledge. And this material life means nonpermanent, ignorance and full of miseries. This body means it will not stay and it is always full of miserable condition. And there is no blissfulness. Always in the material (life) we have got some kind of unhappiness. But on account of our long association with this material life we have become so dull*-headed that it is very difficult to understand what is spiritual life, what are spiritual activities, what is spiritual world, what is God, what is our relationship with Him. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a kind of training to understand what is spiritual life and what is spiritual world, what is God.

So I do not wish to take much of your time, but this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spiritual movement; *therefore sometimes it is misunderstood from the material stand, material point of view. But if we associate with the persons who are propagating this movement, there is process how to understand. The process is very simple: this saṅkīrtana movement. Just like we chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. If we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, it is not very difficult task. There are only sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare... Actually, there are three words-Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma-but they have been adjusted in such a way, they are composition sixteen words. So we are simply requesting the people in general that "You chant this mantra. It is not very difficult. And if you chant this mantra, then gradually your heart will be cleansed." The whole thing is that due to our material association, we are contaminated. We cannot understand what is spiritual life. But if we take advantage of this mantra, chanting, then gradually our heart will be cleansed and immediately we shall be able to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." Then real awakening will come. Because at the present moment, every one of us is working on the bodily concept of life, which I am not. This is the fact. I am acting for something which I am not; therefore it is called māyā, or illusion. Phantasmagoria. I am working for something, and because I am working for something which I am not, therefore there is confusion. People are not happy. He is working day and night for this body; still, he is not happy. He is trying to make the senses... Body means the senses. So we are trying to satisfy the senses in so many ways, repeating the same thing in different way, but there is no happiness. It cannot be, because we are not this matter. We are spirit soul.

*I can give you one example. Just (as) a man, if he is thrown into the ocean, he may be very expert swimmer, but simply by swimming over the ocean, he cannot be happy there. Because he is put in a different condition of life. It is not possible. So the best thing is that if we can pick up that man from the ocean, then he will be happy. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we do not wish to swim over the ocean foolishly and to become happy there. That is not our program. Because you cannot be happy. When you are put into the ocean, however expertly you may swim, you will never be happy there. That is not possible. The only remedy is to pick you. If somebody can pick up from the ocean and give you shelter on the land, then you will feel happy. Similarly, our program is not to become happy by so*-called adjustment of material condition. That is not possible. Better come to the spiritual platform and act in the spiritual life. Then there is possibility of happiness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that those who are cultivating spiritual life, spiritual knowledge, for them, after giving up this body there is promotion to the spiritual world. That is eternal, blissful life, and that will make us happy. So if we become serious, if we actually want to be happy, then we must take to spiritual understanding. Of course, in every country or in different parts of the world, there is some religious system. Religious system means to understand spiritual life. But unfortunately, nobody is interested in spiritual or religious system because they have been more and more induced to become addicted to the material and sensuous activities, and so they are going far and far away from the spiritual life, and more and more confusion and what is called disappointment is rising all over the world. So to mitigate this sort of disappointment and confusion, one has to take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and try to understand the philosophy and act accordingly. Then people will be happy. That is our program.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Guest (Swedish man): ...request Your Highness with a few word, what is Hare Kṛṣṇa?



Haṁsadūta: "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare is the energy of the Lord, God. God's energy is called Hare, and God is called Kṛṣṇa. So we are addressing both God and His energy because this..., there are varieties of energies of God. They have been summarized into three: the spiritual energy, the material energy and the marginal energy. The marginal energy..., the marginal energy is we, living beings, and the material energy, this material world. So similarly, there is another world, which is made of spiritual energy. So this Hara means the spiritual energy. Now we are in the material energy. We have got this material body. But if we can please the Supreme Lord and His spiritual energy, we shall get next a spiritual body, and that is eternal, blissful, full of knowledge.



Guest: But is it a serious movement? If the Beatles are telling the truth, Hare Kṛṣṇa is a little bit of a bluff.



Prabhupāda: Who says bluff? Who is that fool? Who is that rascal?



Guest: The Beatles.



Haṁsadūta: George Harrison has just bought us a big house.



Prabhupāda: Some rascal might have taken, but I know George is our very good devotee.



Guest: George Harrison is your member?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, yes.



Guest: Do you have lots of members?



Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. Don't you see?



Guest: How many?



Prabhupāda: Thousands.



Haṁsadūta: About five thousand all over the world.



Prabhupāda: Those are initiated. Otherwise there are many thousands, our admirers.



Guest: In all the countries.



Prabhupāda: All over the world. Yes.



Guest: Thank you very much. [break]



Prabhupāda: It is bluff? Who is that rascal?



Pradyumna: He is confusing us with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.



Prabhupāda: Oh, he is a rascal. He is now in hospital. He is undergoing operation. God is going, undergoing operation. (laughter) (end)





740530AR.GEN

Śrīla Prabhupāda Welcomed

by Governor at Hotel De Ville

-

Geneva, May 30, 1974



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: (translating from French) In the name of the Canton of Geneva and the city, we wish to extend our heartfelt welcome to you. This republic is an independent state, part of Switzerland, and it has a reputation for being a great center of dialogue between all men of science, philosophy and religion. Geneva is the seat of the World Council of Churches, and there is a Protestant pastor who is there as representative of the Canton of Geneva. Unique among the cities of the world, Geneva has had the privilege to greet many great religious heads such as Pope Paul VI, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, and many others. As civil authorities, we are very much encouraged by religious or spiritual groups because they contribute to wake up the consciousness of the people, provided, of course, that they respect all the laws. For thousands of years, man has tried to find perfection through religious means, and for us what is so much important is that this be done with tolerance, that whatever the books, whether they be the books of India or the Toraḥ or the Koran, that they contribute to a general welfare of all men and not that they fight each other. There is the need currently for men to understand each other better and hear each other better. The modern world neither has the time nor the interest to tolerate divisions between men, especially on the spiritual platform. As a result, everyone must try to improve the fate of the individual man through these means. Should we not, then, try to find some common language with which to solve these problems, all the while respecting the dignity of the common man? And we hope finally that this trip in Europe will give Your Divine Grace new perspectives in the search for the truth.



Prabhupāda: I can speak in English?



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: (he asks in French) The president says that you may speak directly in English, no translation needed.



*Prabhupāda: So Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen, the kind words that you have spoken to receive me, I thank you very much for the same.(?) Our preaching principle is bhāgavata*-dharma, and we do not say "This is Christian religion" or "Hindu religion" or "Muhammadan religion." We speak the science of God. So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is a verse which says,



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yenātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*"That is first*-class religious system which teaches the follower how to love God." It doesn't matter what is the type of religion, religious process. Phalena paricīyate. The thing is proved by the result, how one has learned to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. There are two kinds of religious engagements: one is called inferior and the other is called superior. The superior religious system is that which teaches the followers how to love God. Now, what kind of love? That is also expressed there: ahaitukī, without any motive, and apratihatā. Apratihatā means that religious system cannot be checked by any kind of material impediments. If we come to that platform, then ātmā-ātmā means the mind, the soul, also the body, intelligence-everything becomes fully satisfied.



*So our this principle of teaching is based on Bhagavad*-gītā. (aside:) Give him the book. Perhaps you have heard the name of Bhagavad-gītā, and some of you might have read it, Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā was spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra to groups of cousin-brothers. They were fighting to occupy the kingdom, and in that place Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, happened to be present as the chariot driver of one group, Arjuna. So Arjuna was trying to avoid the fighting because the other side, there were relatives, brothers. At that time he was lamenting his bodily relationship: "The other side is my brother, my grandfather, my nephews, my son-in-laws." So that was the platform of speaking Bhagavad-gītā. So first of all, Kṛṣṇa explained that "We are not this body." The first instruction was given,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*The first instruction of spiritual life is to understand that "I am not this body." The example is given, very simple thing, that I am present, although I remember that I had a small body lying down on the lap of my mother. I remember, when I was six months old, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and she was knitting. I still remember that. So everyone, we remember that we had a small body, and then another small body, then another small body. Those bodies are gone. I have got a different body now, but I remember that I had all these body. Therefore the conclusion should be for the sober man that "Although we have changed so many bodies, I, the person, the soul, am existing." Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Similarly, when I shall give up this body, I shall accept another body. This is the beginning of understanding, that "I am not this body. I am living in this body just like I am not this coat, but I am living within the coat." There is very vivid example in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we read, we can understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." When this realization is there, that "I am spirit soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi... The exact word used in the Vedic literature, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That stage has to be attained in human form of life. In the animal forms of life, this understanding, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," in the animal stage of life it is not possible to understand. But in the human form of life it is possible because human being is advanced in consciousness and knowledge, and if he is educated, he can understand. And if he actually understands, then his position becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realized, prasannātmā. Immediately he becomes jubilant. There is no more any cause of moroseness. That is the symptom. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Then there is no more hankering or lamentation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. At that stage, brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, we can see everyone, spirit soul. I don't see an American or a Swiss gentleman or a French gentleman or a cat or dog or tree, but I see the spirit soul. That, in that spiritual state, brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, one can see that within this body there is the spirit soul, and he wants to work for benefit of the spirit soul, not for the temporary body.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just on the principles of this Bhagavad*-gītā, to understand his real identity, spiritual identity. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*One who is actually paṇḍita... Paṇḍita means learned, and in spiritually learned (life), he sees that a very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, and a dog, an elephant, a cow, or a low-born man, creature*-all on the same platform of spiritual life. So unless we come to that point, this so-called fighting and sectarianism will go on. So we want to teach people... Not only sectarian people in India or the so-called Hindus or Muslims or Christians. Everyone. Because everyone is spirit soul, and as soon as he understands that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," then he becomes completely happy. Yenātmā samprasīdati. So people will not be happy, will not be satisfied, unless and until he comes to that spiritual understanding. So our humble method is on this principle, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." And the spirit soul is eternal; *therefore he has got to come to the platform of eternal happiness, eternal life and full knowledge. That is the perfection of life. And any type of religion-it doesn't matter what it is*-which teaches this philosophy of life, that is first-class religious system. That is our conclusion.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*Guru*-gaurāṅga: (has conversation with someone in French) The president would like to talk to you for a few minutes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Give me little water. (more French conversation) I was formally received by the French Cardinal.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: Danielou.



Prabhupāda: Daniel. (French)



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: He says that the discussion you had with the Cardinal was very interesting.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you come to that position of understanding, that "I am not this body," real spiritual knowledge does not begin. (French conversation)



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: Understanding the philosophy, Monsieur de President does not understand why we find it necessary to dress differently, though.



*Prabhupāda: The different dress means as you have paid for it. Just like we can go to a tailor, he will supply you dress according to the payment you can make. Similarly, according to our karma, according to our work, we are given a type of body by the material nature. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. According... Because actually I do not possess this material body, but because I am in this material world, I am given a type of body by the material nature according to my work. (French conversation)



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: Speaking about clothes, Monsieur le President says that he has been to India, and he understands that one dresses like this in India. But why would the disciples dress in America or in Europe in this way? Is it necessary?



Prabhupāda: No. It is not necessary. Dress you can have as you like. It doesn't matter, because dress is a dead thing. Real thing is that we want a living being who can understand. That is real the position.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: Monsieur le President would like to know, if this movement gets bigger and bigger, won't it create problems in terms of working, the economy? Won't the economy suffer if our movement gets bigger and bigger?



*Prabhupāda: No. Economy will not suffer, but economy will be simplified because we have made some artificial economy. Actually, in the Bhagavad-gītā we find the economic problem is solved by producing food grains. It is stated there, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: [Bg. 3.14] "By eating food grains, both the animals and the men, they become stout and strong." That's a fact. According to Bhagavad-gītā, economic problem can be solved anywhere. If you get, if you have some land, you produce your food grain and give it to the animals, especially to the cows, and she will give you in return milk. So if you get milk, fruits, vegetable and food grains, the whole economic problem is solved. We have already started this example in New Virginia. A group of men, we have got about five hundred acres of land, and we keep cows, and they work to produce some vegetable and food grain. So they don't go outside for solving economic problems. At the present moment-now I am coming from India*-in Bombay there is strike, railway strike. People are in so miserable condition to go to their work fifty miles, forty miles, hundred miles, for earning their bread. This kind of economic situation has increased the problems of life. Rather, if we accept this economic problem solution, then anywhere, any part of the world, you live. You don't require to go outside, hundred miles, two hundred miles, five hundred miles. No. You produce your food there, keep animals, then everything is solved. Actually, the problem is, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. One should take up these problems very seriously: birth, death, old age and disease. So... Actually, as spirit soul, we have no birth, no death. You will find in the Bhagavad, na jayate na mriyate vā kadācit: "The living entity does not take birth." Na jayate na mriyate vā: "Neither he dies." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "After the destruction of the body, the living entity does not annihilate. He..." Just like we have got already the example: my body, childhood body, is annihilated; still, I am existing. Similarly, I will exist. Now, the problem is how I shall exist? I shall exist eternally in full knowledge and in blissfulness. That is the idea. But so long we accept this material body, it is just the opposite. It is miserable, without any knowledge and without eternity. Philosophy should be to save our time from complicated economic problems. We should make our life simple and save time for spiritual cultivation so that we can be relieved from repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: (translating for president) Thank you very much. (end)





740608AR.PAR



Arrival Address

-

Paris, June 8, 1974



*Prabhupāda: So I am very happy to see that Radha*-Parisīśvara is being worshiped nicely. Thank you very much.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy is very simple, but the dull*-headed person cannot understand. That is the difficulty. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that the...



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*There are many classes of men, they have been classified as the duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā, and all of them are based on the atheistic theory "There is no God, I am God." Asuri bhāvam, asura. Asura means they defy God, "I am God. Who is God?" Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu and his son, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlada Mahārāja is devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and Hiraṇyakaśipu would not accept. "Who is God? I am God." This is atheistic attitude. So the atheist are divided into four classes. Number one is duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means they have got merit. Kṛti means meritorious. The modern men, they have got merit. Especially the Western people, they have got nice merit. Just like while passing through the city, we saw very nice buildings. So to construct such buildings, it requires merit, undoubtedly. But what for this building? Duṣkṛtina, only for committing sinful life. Therefore it is called du, duṣkalya. Meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, and gambling. Meritorious, they are undoubtedly for constructing this building, but what is the purpose? The purpose is sinful activities. These things are going on. Therefore, they are called duṣkṛtina. And mūḍha. Mūḍha means they cannot understand what is God. It is very simple thing. Anyone can..., a child can understand. Take for example your body, my body. What is the important thing in the body? The soul. Without the soul, you may be very big man, even Napoleon Bonaparte, but as soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. The whole world is useless. Anyone can understand. Where is now Napoleon Bonaparte who struggled so much for glorifying France. But where is that gentleman? Finished. As soon as the soul is gone... You may keep one statue, dead statue, that is another thing. But you do not know where the soul has gone and what he is doing now.



*So anyone can understand that this body may be very, very important, scientist, politicians, and so on, so on. But as soon as the soul is gone from this body, it is useless, not worth even a farthing. Anyone can understand. Similarly, as the soul is the important thing in this body, my body, your body, or anyone's body, similarly in this huge gigantic body of universe, there must be one soul. Otherwise how it is going on? How it is working so nicely? The big sun is rising exactly in time, the moon is rising exactly in time, the seasons are changing one after another. So many millions and millions of living entities, they are being maintained. Everyone is getting their food, even the elephant who eats at a time hundred kilogram, he also eats. An ant also eats. The birds also eat, the beast also eats*-there is no problem. Only the civilized man, so-called civilized man, he creates problem because duṣkṛtina. He has got merit, but it is being used for sinful activities. Therefore there is problem. Otherwise there is no... If the birds have no problem, the beasts have no problem, the ant has no problem, why the civilized man has got problem? Because they are duṣkṛtina and mūḍha. Rascal and always engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Simple thing.



*If the soul is important in this body, why there shall not be bigger soul, the Supersoul, in this gigantic body? What is this universal body and this body? The same thing. It is only small, and that is very big. The same material construction. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. This earth, water, air. Just like you have got your bones, the huge earth mountain, that is also another bone of this gigantic body. As you have got your hairs on the body, the millions and millions of trees and plants, they are also the hairs on the gigantic body. So as you have got holes in your body here, there, and the navel, similarly these oceans and seas, they are also different holes. So they are described-it is not my imagination*-they are described in the Bhagavad-gī..., Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto, to conceive the gigantic body. As you have got your skull, the round skull, the whole, I mean to say, hemisphere is also skull of this gigantic body. It is similar. As you have got a body and you, the soul, is the important thing, active principle within this body, similarly this gigantic body, the active principle is there, that is we call from the śāstra Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the same comparison. But because they are mūḍha, rascal, they cannot understand. No brain. We have no brain, we are all not very intelligent. But we can understand if there is the active principle soul within this body, there must be a Supersoul within this huge structure of body. And that is called God. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. Those who are bewildered, narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ, the lowest of the mankind. These things cannot be understood by the cats and dogs. Their body is constituted in such a way that they cannot think of there is an active principle within the body and there is active principle in this huge gigantic body. The cats and dogs cannot understand, but a human being can understand. And that active principle is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. As the active principle within this body is all-attractive, this beautiful body of French boys and girls, why? The active principle is there; therefore they are attractive. Many people come to see your city. Why? The active principle is there.



*So Kṛṣṇa means the active principle of everything. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*The active principle is everything. From His energy, material energy, this huge gigantic material man..., cosmic manifestation is there, from His energy. And we are also His energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. The five material elements are also Kṛṣṇa's energy, and we living entities, we are also. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā, jīva*-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. Everything is explained there. But the mūḍhas, these duṣkṛtinas, the narādhamas, they cannot understand. Narādhama means lowest of the mankind. Why? Because cats and dogs cannot understand this philosophy. But a human being can understand. He has got the brain. Nature has given the fertile brain, but they are misusing it, duṣkṛtina, only for sense gratification. The brain was given to understand God, but the rascal is using for illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, and gambling. This is the position of the whole human society.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give the greatest benefit to the human society to clear their brain, the rascal brain. We call, declare, they are all rascals. Let any scientist, philosopher come here, I shall prove that he is nothing but a rascal. I shall prove that. I challenge them. What they are doing? Nonsense. So you do not become rascals. By the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you are trying to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, and there is no difficulty, everything is there in our Bhagavad*-gītā. You simply try to understand, and make your life successful. That is our request. Don't be rascals, mūḍhas, narādhamas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This education has no value, because the real knowledge, there is nothing. Real knowledge is to understand God. There is no education throughout the whole world, there is no university. So they are simply producing rascals. So my only request is that don't become rascals. You just worship here Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, just try to understand Kṛṣṇa and then your life will be successful.



In what way?



janma karma (ca) me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

[Bg. 4.9]



*If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, the result will be that after giving up this body, you will not accept any more material body. You will remain in your spiritual body and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your eternal life, blissful, full of knowledge. That is wanted. Otherwise, now you have got this very beautiful body, French girl, French boy, if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you lose the opportunity, then you may get, because you have got very good friend, dogs. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam [Bg. 8.6], so at the time of dying, you will think of dog and you will get a body of dog. This is a fact. Because you are under the grip of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. As you infect some disease, you must suffer from that disease. Similarly, the infection of ignorance, tamo*-guṇa, will give you a tamo-guṇa body. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Go down. Nature gives you the opportunity: get a nice human form of body, nice brain, try to understand what is God. But if you misuse it, then again go to become cats and dogs and hogs. This is nature's law. Don't risk your life. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]. These things are explained.



So what is the difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? You have got nice Deity, Kṛṣṇa is present to take your service. Be pure, eat nice prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance, and go to back to home, back to Godhead. Where is the difficulty? Simple thing. Don't be misled by the rascals and fools. Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa, try to hear Kṛṣṇa, His instruction is there, and be happy. Thank you very much. (end)





740708AR.LA

Arrival Address

-

Los Angeles, July 8, 1974





Prabhupāda: So I thank you very much for your kind reception. It is necessary.



*sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair

uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*This is the process, Vedic process, to receive the transcendental knowledge through the paramparā system, and the reception or honor given to the spiritual master, it goes to Kṛṣṇa. Spiritual master is the official collector. Just like in government there is collector. He receives the money, taxes, from the citizens, not for his personal use but for the government. Similarly, this is the Vedic system, to receive knowledge through the transparent medium, guru, and to receive... Guru means the honor goes to Kṛṣṇa. So this is necessary. This is not an artificial thing, but spiritually it is necessary. Therefore we hold Vyāsa*-pūjā day.



*So I am very glad to see that you are maintaining the temple standard as good as I saw when I left. That is my satisfaction. And keep this, I mean to say, situation, atmosphere, always, and follow the regulative principles, chant sixteen rounds. You'll remain always happy, because although we are in Los Angeles, we have nothing to do with the material atmosphere of Los Angeles. Therefore a devotee who lives with Kṛṣṇa or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not live in the material world. He always live in the spiritual world. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate: "Anyone who is engaged in bhakti-yoga with Kṛṣṇa," sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26], "such person is always above these material modes of nature." Our difficulty or miserable condition of life is due to being under the material laws of nature. So it is very simple method, and you are all intelligent boys and girls in the Western country, and I am very, happy that you have taken it seriously. And continue this. You'll never be unhappy. And not only here but also, as Kṛṣṇa said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], if you simply practice these four principle-always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā, or become Kṛṣṇa's devotees and offer Kṛṣṇa obeisances and worship Kṛṣṇa-these four... We are teaching these four principle in the temple, how to worship Kṛṣṇa how to serve Kṛṣṇa, how to become Kṛṣṇa's devotee, and how to think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours. And if we do this, there is guarantee. Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva eṣyasi asaṁśaya: "Without any doubt, you will come to Me. You will go back to home, back to Godhead."

*So do not be slackened. And it is not difficult. Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. This devotional service is so nice. It is... To execute the devotional is also very pleasing. Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. And whatever you do, that is your permanent asset. It will never be lost. In the material world, suppose you have got some money. So that is not permanent. But anything, material possession, that is not permanent. Especially after death, everything is finished-another new chapter. That we do not know. But devotional service, it is guaranteed. It is permanent asset, even you cannot finish in this life. But that does not mean you should be neglectful. Try to finish the completely to become Kṛṣṇa conscious in this life. Do not keep in abeyance. That is not intelligence. But even if it is not finished, then the next life a human life is guaranteed, and you begin where you ended. These are the sastric... So execute this devotional service very sincerely, seriously. Even there is little inconvenience, tolerate it. There is no inconvenience. But if you think it is inconvenience*-that is our mental concoction-still, you should not be neglectful in the discharging your duties in devotional service.

*So those who are engaged in Deity worship, those who are engaged in saṅkīrtana party, those who are engaged in distributing books, those who are engaged in the office for keeping accounts-and all of them in devotional service*-not a single moment waste. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. And whenever you have got time, read books. Now we have got volumes of books. Again we have got another five volumes of books. All are now immediately published. So you have got enough to study. And those who are gṛhasthas, children, we have got our Dallas. As soon as the children is fit, three to four years, you can send to Dallas. They are taking very much care. And if your children are educated Sanskrit and English, and reads all our books, he is more than any university M.A., Ph.D., more than. The M.A., Ph.D. of the ordinary university will not be able to be compared with that. So rest assured that education, culture, happiness, satisfaction, and next, go to home, back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



740927AR.MAY

Arrival Lecture

-

Māyāpur, September 27, 1974



*Prabhupāda: So Śrīman Jayapatāka Mahārāja, Bhavānanda Mahārāja and devotees, I thank you very much for keeping this temple, Māyāpura*-candrodaya Mandira, so nicely cleansed, and it appears everything is going nicely. So it was the desire of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura that Europeans and Americans would come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That prophecy is now being fulfilled, and that is my satisfaction. I tried my little bit to fulfill the desire of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. At my old age of seventy years, I just... It was a gambling also. I simply thought that "This was the desire..." Of course, my Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, he also asked me to do this. Anyway, at least there is a place now when..., where these Europeans and Americans may come and live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and advance in spiritual understanding.



*People, unfortunately, they have no sense what is spiritual life. The modern civilization, they do not know that we have to change this body, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], just like animals, cats and dogs, they do not know that they have to change the body or they are not the body, they are beyond, something. This is the modern civilization. They try to make the best use of a bad bargain in this way, that "We have got this body. Let us enjoy senses to the utmost." But that is not the fact. Sense enjoyment means infection of the material modes of nature. That is sense enjoyment. Just like we infect some disease, and that disease will come out some day, will be manifested. They are called kutastha, phalonmukha, and prārabdha. Three stages. Infection... The same example. Infection remains in dormant stage, not manifest immediately. Then phalonmukha, fructifying; *and then prārabdha, one gets it and suffers. This is the nature's way, going on. But people do not know it. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very serious movement, scientific movement, and people are gradually trying to understand the importance of this movement. Because in the foreign countries, especially in America, our books are being accepted by (the) higher circle, big, big universities, colleges, professors. They are so eager to read the books that they have simply heard that this Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes and Caitanya*-caritāmṛta will be finished in twelve volumes... We have got Caitanya-caritāmṛta only one volume published, and they are ordering for twelve volumes, that "As soon as it is published, you send us." This is very encouraging. Similarly, they are ordering for sixty volumes of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, although we have published only twelve volumes. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as He wanted...

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



So at least the basic principles is being done, and I am very much thankful to you, you American, European boys and girls who are helping me in this mission. So go on cooperating in this way, and I am sure this mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu will be successful. It must be successful because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted it to be done. Simply we, the workers, the servitors, must be very sincere. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will give us more and more facilities so that we can work very well. So keep this mission always in view and do your best. That is my only request.



Thank you very much. (end)



750209AR.LA

Arrival Address

-

Los Angeles, February 9, 1975



Prabhupāda: You can play hari hari biphale janama. I shall... I'll sing before you.



Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!



*Prabhupāda: (sings with harmonium, drum and karatālas) [break] ...movement is enlightening people because they're simply wasting their time without worshiping Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. The purport of this song made by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, that anyone who is not coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is simply wasting his valuable human life... (sounds of children) (aside:) Take care of the children. This life is meant for reviving our lost Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is Kṛṣṇa consciousness... (babies crying) Otherwise how it is happening that this place was a church and nobody was coming, so much so that they had to sell it to others? We purchased it. When I first came here to see this church, there was nobody. The place is the same. The people is the same. I have not brought men from India. Why it is crowded now? This is the proof that in everyone's heart Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. It is not artificial way of taking something sentimentally. Otherwise how in my absence all these boys and girls are maintaining the status quo very nicely? I am very glad. That is required. This is the proof that in everyone's heart there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*Udaya means awakening. It is not an artificial way of giving something, imposing something to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart. It has to be awakened by certain process. That process is śravaṇa*-kīrtana, nine different types of devotional service:



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*So anywhere... It doesn't matter, either in India or outside. People thought like that, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the monopoly business for the Indians or for the Hindus. They were thinking like that: "It cannot be preached. Nobody will take it." But I thought, "If Kṛṣṇa is God, why it will not be taken by everyone? It must be taken." So I was not very much hopeful to become successful. When I was in Boston port, I wrote one poetry that "I do not know why I have been brought here. How these people will take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? As soon as I will say these four regulative principles, they will ask me to go away." (laughter) It is very difficult for this country or this part of the world to follow the four principles of regulative life: no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, and no intoxication. Even Lord Zetland, when he was given this formula for becoming advanced in spiritual consciousness, he flatly replied, "It is impossible for us." Yes. But impossible thing can be made possible by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. That is possible*-Kṛṣṇa is all powerful-provided we are serious and sincere. That is the main business. We must be very serious and sincere. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence.



*That is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajataṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*Anyone who is engaged very seriously, satata*-yuktānām, twenty-four hours, thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, how can I serve you...?" This is the only business. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things: Always think of Kṛṣṇa... This Hare Kṛṣṇa means "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service. I have given service to this material world so much, but I could not satisfy the master, neither I am satisfied." Everyone is serving society, friendship, love, family, country, but none of them are satisfied. None of them sat... Even your President, he could not satisfy you. You had to drag him down. Neither he could satisfy himself. Even Gandhi could not satisfy his countrymen. Although he gave so much service, he was shot dead. So this is the material world. You cannot satisfy anyone, neither you become satisfied, materially engaged. This is called material world. We may show some artificial satisfaction, but there cannot be satisfaction in the material world. First of all, you have to take it as axiomatic truth that there is no happiness and there cannot be any satisfaction in this material world. Then you'll make, spiritually advance. If you have got little faith still that "I can be satisfied; I can be happy materially," then that is māyā's influence. That is māyā's influence. There is no possibility.



*So if you want satisfaction, then you have to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Compulsory: "You must." There is no other alternative. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I have simply wasted my time." Actually, anyone who has not taken Kṛṣṇa consciousness*-simply wasting time. This is fact, scientifically true. But they do not know it. Māya-mohita. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. Being covered by the illusory energy, they do not know the background of this gigantic cosmic manifestation. That is Kṛṣṇa. So intelligence means to find out Kṛṣṇa. In the Īśopani..., Īśo, it is stated that "My dear Lord, please wind up Your, these dazzling rays so that I can actually see Your face." Within brahmajyoti the Kṛṣṇa is there. So Kṛṣṇa can be seen only by service. You cannot challenge Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, come here. I shall see You." No. That is not possible. You have to submit. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the way. You have to surrender. So long you don't surrender, that is up to you. Kṛṣṇa will not force you. He is almighty, He can force you, but He does not do that. He says, "You do this. If you do not do it, that is your business. But I say you do it."

*So Kṛṣṇa says everything in the Bhagavad*-gītā. People are simply misled by so-called rascals, yogis, swamis, incarnation, magician, juggler, bluffer, but they come and go. They cannot do anything because they are themself cheated. They are themself cheated, so how they can do good to others? So don't be members of the society of cheaters and cheated. Then the life will be spoiled. Our only request, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is "Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa he. This is our... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught. Always chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa or Hare Kṛṣṇa, as it is convenient. That is the way of, the simple way. There is no difficulty. There is no loss. These boys and girls took "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," so there was no loss, but now everything is gain. So why not make an experiment that chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always?

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

*yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

*nitya*-yuktā upāsate

[Bg. 9.14]



This process... I am very glad that you are following despite all impediments. The Deity is nicely decorated, and the Deity is worshiped, and He's pleased upon you. Be blessed. Continue this process, don't deviate, strictly follow the regulative principle, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa at least sixteen rounds, and you'll be happy. There is no doubt about it. You can experience. It is not an imposition. Don't leave this process. Then, in this life, you will be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. It is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*To understand Kṛṣṇa is very, very difficult, even for the siddhas, those who have attained perfection of life. Kṛṣṇa said, yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. First of all, out of many, many millions of person, one endeavors to become siddha, perfect. That is also not very easy, siddha. Siddha means perfectly self*-realized. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is siddhi. That is the siddhi of human life. The dogs', cats' life, they cannot understand that "I am Brahman," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. They think, "I am dog." So if you think like that-"I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim"-then you are no better than the dogs and cats because they are also thinking like that. But when you think yourself that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul," that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. After that, after being brahma-bhūtaḥ-samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām-then bhakti life begins. After being liberated, after being self-realized, then bhakti begins. And as soon as bhakti begins, then you understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa by any other process*-by jñāna, by yoga, by tapasya, by karma, by sacrifice, by charity. You cannot understand. Simply, Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa as He is, then you have to take to this process, very simple process. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your respectful obeisances unto Me." Four things. That is here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will be thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And unless you are devotee, you cannot engage your time in that way. Then if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, automatically you become devotee. Then you worship Deity. Unless you are a devotee, you cannot worship Kṛṣṇa.



*The atheist will say, "They are worshiping some idol." No. That is not fact. They do not know that here is Kṛṣṇa personally. He is accepting the devotees' service in a manner in which we can serve Him at the present moment. If Kṛṣṇa shows you the virāṭ*-rūpa, then you cannot serve Him. Where you'll get the dress of the virāṭ-rūpa? The whole world's cloth factory will fail you. (laughter) Therefore Kṛṣṇa is accepted, a four-feet-small Deity, so that you can acquire Kṛṣṇa's dress within your means. You can put Kṛṣṇa within your means. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Therefore it is forbidden, arcye viṣṇu śilā-dhīḥ. If any rascal thinks that in the Viṣṇu form, as stone, as wood..., vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, devotees considered as belonging to certain nation, caste, these are nārakī-buddhi. This is not to be done. It is fact that here is Kṛṣṇa. Very kindly, just to show me favor, He has come in this form. But He's Kṛṣṇa; *He's not stone. Even it is stone, that is also Kṛṣṇa, because there is nothing else but Kṛṣṇa, anything. Without Kṛṣṇa, there is no existence. Sarvaṁ khalv idam brahma. So Kṛṣṇa has got the power that even in his so*-called shape of stone, He can accept your service. That is Kṛṣṇa.

So you have to understand these things, and if you understand properly what is Kṛṣṇa, this much qualification will make you fit for being liberated even in this life.

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*It is all stated there. So Kṛṣṇa can be understood only by devotional service, by no other. You cannot speculate, "Kṛṣṇa may be like this." Just like Māyāvādīs, they imagine. The imagination will not help you. You cannot imagine God. That is foolishness. God is not subjected to your imagination. Then He is not God. Why He should be subjected to your imagination? So these things are to be understood properly, and one can understand properly when he's pure devotee. Otherwise not. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā-samāvṛtāḥ: [Bg. 7.25] "I am not exposed to everyone." Why He should be exposed to everyone? When He's pleased, He will reveal Himself to you. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. You cannot ask the sun to appear immediately. When he is pleased, he will appear in the morning. Similarly, you have to please Kṛṣṇa so that He will appear before you and talk with you and bless you.



Thank you very much. (end)



750211AR.MEX

Arrival Lecture

-

Mexico, February 11, 1975,

(With Spanish Translator)



*Prabhupāda: My dear devotees, ladies and gentlemen, I am very glad to see you again, I think, after four years? Three years. I was trying to come here again*-I like this place-but due to various engagements and due to my old age also, I could not come earlier. But this time, by the arrangement of our Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja, I have been forced to come here. (laughter) So I must thank you for your nice reception. I was received by police escort very nicely, and I remember once I traveled with the governor of UP in 1962 from Lucknow to Kanpur. So exactly we were driving in the same fashion, escorted by the police motorcycle. So anyway, I am so pleased to see you, that you are interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very important for the human society. It is not exactly a religious movement as it is understood in the Western countries. Religion is described in the English dictionary as "a kind of faith." Faith you may accept or may not accept, but religion is the word, as we understand from Sanskrit dictionary, it cannot be rejected. Or you and your religion cannot be separated. Therefore we should understand very clearly that we are experiencing two things: one is matter, and another is spirit. Just like there is a stone, and there is a small ant. The stone, it may be very big, but it cannot move. It has no life. But the small ant, although it is very small, it has life. So there are two things, we can very easily understand: one is dead matter, and the other is living force. We are actually living force. Living force, we are covered by the matter, and according to the different types of covering, we are representing different types of living condition. So this living force, being encaged by the dead matter, it is a struggle for existence. The living force trying to get out of the material encagement, that is called struggle for existence. The living force by nature is jubilant. The supreme living force is God, Kṛṣṇa, and we are part and parcel of the living force. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, two kinds of energies: one material energy, one spiritual energy. The material energy is earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, etc., and the spiritual energy is the living force which is trying to lord it over the material energy. So,

apareyam itas tu (anyāṁ)

viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām

*jīva*-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



Kṛṣṇa says that "This material energy is inferior, and the superior energy is the living being." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to help the living being to come out of the encagement of material energy. And how to become free, that information is in the Vedic literature. So what we are giving in different literatures... We are publishing books and magazines. Simply we are trying to give information how the superior living being can get out of this material encagement.



*So I am very glad to see you, so many Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. You have come to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So stick to the principles, then your life will be successful. The principle is to purify ourself. Just like when a man becomes sick, he has to purify himself by regulative principle, by diet, by medicine, similarly, we have got this material disease, covered by the material body, and the symptom of miseries are birth, death, old age and disease. So one who is serious about getting out of this material bondage and free from birth, death, old age and disease, so he must take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very simple and easy. If you do not know, if you are not educated, if you have no asset, you can simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, and if you are educated, logician, philosopher, you can read our books, which are already in fifty in number. There will be about seventy-five books of four hundred pages to convince the philosopher, scientist, educationist what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is published in English as well as in other European languages. Take advantage of it. Along with the Deity worship in this temple, hold classes at least five hours. As in the schools and colleges there are regular classes, forty-five minutes' class, then five or ten minutes' recess, again forty-five minutes' class, in this way, so we have got enough subject matter to study, and if we study all these books, to finish them it will take at least twenty-five years. So you are all young men. I request you to engage your time in reading books, in chanting, in Deity worshiping, in going to preach, selling books. Don't be lazy. Always remain engaged. Then that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*There is no discrimination that "This man should be allowed. This woman should not be allowed." No. Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone." Striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. Anyone who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he becomes free from the material bondage and goes back to Godhead, back to home. So take seriously about this movement and execute the principle, namely no meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, and chant sixteen rounds. That's all right.



Now, if there are any questions from them... [break]

Hṛdayānanda: (translating question) If everyone is spirit soul, then isn't sex life also spiritual?



Prabhupāda: Well, sex life... There is no sex life in the spirit soul. Sex life is in the material body. We are not this body, but because we are in this body, therefore we are thinking pleasure of the body is pleasure of the soul. Just like when you are sitting in a nice car, if the car is damaged, the proprietor thinks that he is damaged. But actually he is not damaged; the car is damaged. It is due to our false identification with the body. Therefore we think that sex life is a pleasure. But so long we are in this body, sex life is not prohibited, but it is regulated. By regulative principle, gradually we can give up sex life. Therefore there are four orders of life. The beginning is brahmacārī. There it is very nicely taught how to remain free from material encagement. But if one is unable to take immediately spiritual activity, he is allowed to marry. The married life is regulated sex life. Then, after fiftieth year, one has to give up this. So in that stage, vānaprastha stage, the wife is there, but there is no sex life. So in this way, when one becomes very strongly fit not to desire for sex life, then he takes sannyāsa. That is the perfect stage of life for spiritual advancement of life.



Hṛdayānanda: (translating question) Who are we? Why are we here and where are we going?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hṛdayānanda: Who are we, why are we here and where are we going?



*Prabhupāda: You are all living entities. You wanted to come here. Just like I wanted to come in your city*-I have come here-similarly, you wanted to come to the material world and enjoy ma... So because you wanted to enjoy this material world, you have come here. Kṛṣṇa has allowed to come here, and you are trying to enjoy this material world. That is called struggle for existence. But you'll never be happy with this material world. It is simply a struggle for existence. Therefore you should go back to home, back to Godhead. Then you'll be happy.



Hṛdayānanda: [break] (translating question) ...that material desires are an obstacle in our devotional service.



Prabhupāda: By engaging yourself in spiritual activity. That's all. (end)





750225AR.MIA

Arrival Lecture

-

Miami, February 25, 1975



*Prabhupāda: It is great fortune for you. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared for delivering all kinds of fallen souls in this age. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, pāpī*-tāpī yāta chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. So brajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi. The same Kṛṣṇa and same Balarāma... Kṛṣṇa has appeared as the son of mother Śacī, and Balarāma has appeared as Nityānanda, and Their business is to deliver all fallen souls, especially in this age, Kali-yuga. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission was that He should be present by His name, by His form, by His pastimes, in every town and village of the world. And you are fulfilling His mission. So undoubtedly, you will be blessed and you will get Kṛṣṇa's mercy through the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



To understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Out of many thousands, millions people, one is anxious to make his life successful. Nobody is interested. Practically they do not know what is actually success of life. The modern civilization, everyone is thinking, "If I get a good wife and nice motorcar and a nice apartment, that is success." That is not success. That is temporary. Real success is to get out of the clutches of māyā, means this material conditional life which comprehends birth, death, old age and disease. We are passing through many varieties of life, and this human form of life is a good chance to get out of this chain of changing body one after another. The soul is eternal and blissful because part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, God, sac*-cid-ānanda, eternal, full of bliss, full of knowledge. Unfortunately, in this material, conditional life we are changing different bodies, but we are not getting situated again in that spiritual platform where there is no birth, no death. There is no science. The other day one psychiatrist came to see me. And where is your education for understanding the soul, his constitutional position? So practically the whole world is in darkness. They are interested with fifty, sixty or hundred years of this span of life, but they do not know that we are eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, and due to this material body we are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. And this is going on continuously.



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, out of His great compassion for the fallen souls, He appeared. Kṛṣṇa comes also. But Kṛṣṇa is not so liberal. Kṛṣṇa makes condition that "First of all you surrender. Then I take charge of you." But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is more compassionate than Kṛṣṇa, although Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same thing. So by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy we are so easily understanding Kṛṣṇa. So that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is present here. You worship Him. It is not very difficult. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanam [SB 11.5.32]. You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and whatever you can, offer Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is very kind. He does not take offense. Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa worship is little difficult. We have to worship Him with great awe and veneration. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has voluntarily come to deliver the fallen souls. Little service, He will be satisfied. He will be satisfied. But do not neglect. Because He is very kind and compassionate, that does not mean we should forget His position. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we should offer Him very great respect, and as far possible... But the advantage is that Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not take any offense. And to worship Him, to please Him, is very easy. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. Simply you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and dance, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu will be very pleased. He introduced this dancing and chanting, and this is the easiest process for God realization. So as far as possible... If possible, twenty-four hours. If that is not possible, at least four times, six times, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra before Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and you will get success in your life. This is a fact.

*So I am very glad that you are worshiping Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu. So continue to do this. There is no need of installing Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa at least at the present moment. When you become more advanced in spiritual consciousness, you can establish. But even if you do not establish, it doesn't matter. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is sufficient. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is combination of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. In one place you worship Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. So I see this place is very nice, and you are also very nice. Take advantage of this opportunity, and go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and worship Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He will bless you sufficiently to become successful in getting shelter of the lotus feet of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (end)



750228AR.ATL

Arrival Address

-

Atlanta, February 28, 1975



Prabhupāda: So I am very glad to see you, and I am coming first of all Mexico City?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So Mexico City, then Caracas, then...



Devotee: Miami.



Prabhupāda: Miami. So I see your temple is the best.



Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol!



*Prabhupāda: So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is very kind. Parama karuṇa, pahū dui jana. Two Lords, Nitāi*-Gauracandra, Nityānanda Prabhu and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, They are very kind, you see? They have appeared just to reclaim the fallen souls of this age. So They are more kind than Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, He is also very kind. He comes to deliver. But Kṛṣṇa demands that first of all surrender. Caitanya Mahāprabhu even does not demand surrender. He is so kind. (voice choking) So take shelter of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and be happy. Thank you very much. (weeping) (end)





750303AR.DAL

Arrival Lecture

-

Dallas, March 3, 1975



Prabhupāda: We are trying to push this brahminical culture within the demoniac culture. It is very difficult task, but still, by grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we are more or less successful. I am very glad to see your temple worship, not only here, everywhere. So you American boys and girls, you are fortunate that this movement is started from America, and some of you are taking seriously, trying to help me. So I am very much obliged to you. So keep this standard as you are now keeping, then things will go automatically, and one day people will understand in the history that this movement was for saving the human society. That day will come.



*So I am very much pleased to see the atmosphere here. Education means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is education. If simply we understand that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He is great, and we are all subordinate. So our duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa," these two lines, if we understand, then our life is perfect. If we simply learn how to worship Kṛṣṇa, how to please Him, how to dress Him nicely, how to give Him nice foodstuff, how to decorate Him with ornaments and flowers, how to offer our respectful obeisances unto Him, how to chant His name, in this way, if we simply think, without any so-called education we become the perfect person within the universe. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It doesn't require A-B-C-D education. It requires simply change of consciousness. So if these children are being taught from the very beginning of their life... We had the opportunity of being trained up by our parents like this. So some way or other, they have come to... [break] Many saintly persons used to visit my father's house. My father was Vaiṣṇava. He was Vaiṣṇava, and he wanted me to become a Vaiṣṇava. Whenever some saintly person would come, he would ask him, "Please bless my son that he can become a servant of Rādhārāṇī." That was his prayer. He never prayed for anything. And he gave me education how to play mṛdaṅga. My mother was against. There was two teachers*-one for teaching me A-B-C-D, and one for teaching me mṛdaṅga. So the one teacher was waiting and the other teacher was teaching me how to play on mṛdaṅga. So my mother would be angry that "What is this nonsense? You are teaching mṛdaṅga? What he will do with this mṛdaṅga?" (chuckles) But perhaps my father wanted that I should be a great mṛdaṅga player in the future. (laughter) Therefore I am very much indebted to my father, and I have dedicated my book, Kṛṣṇa book, to him. He wanted this. He wanted me to be preacher of Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and player of mṛdaṅga and to become servant of Rādhārāṇī. So every parent should think like that; *otherwise one should not become father and mother. That is the injunction in the śāstra. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sa syād gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt. In this way, the conclusion is, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. If one is unable to rescue his disciple from the imminent danger of death, he should not become a guru. One should not become father or mother if he cannot do so. In this way, no friend, no relatives, no father, no..., if one cannot teach his other party how to save from the clutches of death.

*So that education is wanting throughout the whole world. And simple thing is that one can avoid this entanglement of birth, death, old age and disease simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā.

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*"My dear Arjuna, if one can simply understand what I am, why do I come here in this material world, what is My duty, what duty I perform..." These two, three things, if one understands, that "Kṛṣṇa comes for this purpose, He is like this," then the result will be tyaktvā dehaṁ... We have to give up this body. That's a fact. But this person who has understood Kṛṣṇa, he is not coming back again to accept another material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Mam eti. If he does not take birth again, so does he become zero? Śūnyavādi? No. Mām eti: "He enters into My family." Kṛṣṇa's family... Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana has got a great family. He has got His father. He has got His mother, mother Yaśodā, Nanda Mahārāja. He has got so many friends, hundreds and thousands-boyfriends, girlfriends. The trees, the plants, the flowers, the fruits, the land, the water, the cows, the calves*-He is surrounded by a great family. He is not a single person. Suppose if we say, "Now the president is coming." So president means he is not only coming alone; *he is coming with secretaries, his ministers, his military secretary and so many other people, some soldiers and bodyguards. He is not alone. So if a material president, insignificant, is always surrounded by his associates, so the Supreme Being, how He is associated with His surroundings, you can just imagine. He cannot be alone. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not zero, śūnyavādi, as they say that "Everything zero after this," or nirviśeṣa, "Everything like sky." No. He is individual, person. And He says in the Bhagavad*-gītā in the Second Chapter, "My dear Arjuna, you, you are a person. Me, I am also a person, and all these soldiers and kings who are assembled here, they are also person. So don't think that we were not person in the past, and we are not person at present, and in future also we shall not become person. We are all person, eternally person." And whenever there is person, there is associates, there is family, there is exchange of love. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to become trained up sufficiently how to enter Kṛṣṇa's great family. In Kṛṣṇa's family there is no sannyāsī. Have you seen, anyone, a sannyāsī in Vṛndāvana? At least in the books? Sannyāsa means to make this material life sannyāsa, finished, "No more this," renounce. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu did. He renounced His material family life. He had very nice wife, young wife, and He was young man, twenty*-four years old, and there was a very affectionate mother. He had very good position in the society, Nimāi Paṇḍita. Yesterday you showed one play called Chand Kazi. So He was so influential that simply by His calling, hundreds and thousands of men immediately joined to go to the Chand Kazi's house to perform kīrtana. So just imagine what was His social position, so popular, leader. He had very good position. As a learned scholar, He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. Beautiful, very beautiful body, Gaurasundara. Very beautiful wife. Very honored brāhmaṇa, Jagannātha Miśra's son, grandson of Nīlāmbara Cakravartī, very social, aristocratic position. But still, He gave up everything. That means that although He had nothing material, but to show us that material things should be renounced, that is sannyāsa; and enter into the spiritual family of Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. He does not become again entangled in these material varieties of life. In material world there is also varieties, but that is false. This morning we were discussing this point, mirage. In the mirage there is a show of false water, and the animal runs after it. But there is no water, and finally he becomes more thirsty, and it is desert; he falls down and dies. So the material world means we are running after false family. But don't think that there is no real family life. There is real family. That is Kṛṣṇa's real family, eternal family, blissful family. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to train up people to be detached from this false family and to enter into the real family. That is the point. Not that if I give up this false family I will become zero. No. There is no such disappointment. The other philosophers, they simply... Just like Buddha philosophy. Their philosophy is "Finish this," nirvāṇa. But if people are not interested to finish all this, they want it, then what is the positive gain? So generally people are attached to these Buddhist and Māyāvādī philosophies; therefore they feel hopelessness. On account of future hopelessness, they become more attached to this false family. But our philosophy is not like that. Our philosophy is that you become detached to this false family and enter into the real family.

*So these children... Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction, that you produce children as much as you can train them to become eternally family members of Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual contraceptive. Don't produce children like cats and dogs. This is our philosophy. If you can produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, produce one hundred children. There is no objection. But if you cannot do that, then either don't produce children or produce children as much as you can manage. This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy. Our philosophy is not simply a negation. It is positive. They, general people, they are unnecessarily producing children, then cannot manage. So they are adopting so many sinful activities, so much so that they are now killing their own child within the womb and becoming implicated in sinful activities and prolong the life in this material world very miserably. Just see the miserable condition of the child, baby within the womb. She is... It is in the mother's womb, and the mother, at the advice of the doctor, is killing. Why? Because that child-now it is child*-he did it. He killed so many other children in his previous life; *now he is being killed. Not only in one womb, but he will enter another womb*-he will be killed. As many children he has killed, he will be killed in this way. But they do not know. They do not know this, blind, mūḍha, that how nature's law is going on, how tit for tat is going on. They do not know it. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give them right knowledge and become free from all sinful life. So long there is sinful life, you cannot be allowed to enter into Kṛṣṇa's family. That will not be allowed.

*yeṣām anta*-gataṁ tu pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*So avoid sinful life. We have given you prescription: no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication, no meat*-eating. Avoid the sinful life and make your children Kṛṣṇa conscious purely. Then you can produce hundreds of children. There is no objection. And so far maintaining your children, we are taking charge. Come on. We are taking charge. We shall supply everything. Of course, not to the whims of these material man, but as much which is needed to maintain them, that we take, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, ISKCON society will take charge... (end)





750308AR.LON

Arrival Address

-

London, March 8, 1975



Prabhupāda: So how many devotees are there now?



Haṁsadūta: Eighty.



Prabhupāda: Eighteen?



Haṁsadūta: Eighty.



*Prabhupāda: Eighty. That's nice. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, jay sakal bipod... (aside:) It is going now. Jāy sakal bipod, gāi bhaktivinod, jakhon ami o-nām gai, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa bolo bolo, bolo re sobāi. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching is to request everyone to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that "When I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then all dangers go away." So this place, this material world, is a dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. Vipad means danger, and padaṁ padam means every step. In the material world you cannot expect very smooth, peaceful life. That is not possible. And the only remedy is to take shelter of the lotus feet of Murāri. Murāri means Kṛṣṇa.



*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



So there is always if you stay in a very good boat, still, because the platform is water you cannot think that the boat is always very smooth and without any trouble. So material world is always full of troubles. So if we keep ourself in our standing, in our standard, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa regularly, then the dangers will be over. Dangers, they are not also permanent. They come and go like the seasonal changes. Sometimes it is very hot; *sometimes it is very cold. So Kṛṣṇa has advised that āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. So don't be diverted from the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, and don't be afraid of because there is some danger and danger. Take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and dangers will be over.



But we should not create such position, dangerous. It is already dangerous. Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also very cautious about spiritual life. Sannyāsīra alpa chidra bāhu kori mane. Others may violate the laws, and so many sinful activities they are doing, but nobody takes very serious care. But when a religious group or a sannyāsī commits little offense, it is magnified a thousand times. Therefore we should be very careful not to make anything which may be magnified to the eyes of the public. Because we are preaching. We are preaching, and there is always demonic party who want to put us in difficulty. That is natural. Even Hiraṇyakaśipu, being the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was also putting him into difficulty. But if we remain sincere and go on chanting, these dangers will be over. Don't be afraid. Don't stop your regular regulative principles and regular activities, program. Go on with it. Depend on Kṛṣṇa, and gradually everything will be all right.

So I think we shall this much today. Now it is time over. The Deities should go to rest. We should not detain. That's all right. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750320AR.CAL

Arrival Lecture

-

Calcutta, March 20, 1975



*Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka*-they are all devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they have established so many temples, and Gandhi says there was no such person. And how much poor study he had, and still, he is the leader. When?



*Śruta*-kīrti: London, just four days ago.



Prabhupāda: Four days ago. [break] So this time within two months from 26th February?



*Devotee: Twenty*-fourth January.



*Prabhupāda: Twenty-fourth January to 15th March-less than two months*-I had the opportunity to go round about the world. From Bombay I went to Hong Kong, then from Hong Kong to Tokyo, Japan; from Tokyo to Honolulu, Honolulu to Mexico City, then Venezuela. Caracas... Caracas?



Karandhara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: I forget name also. (laughs) South America. Then I was to go to Trinidad, West Indies, but there was no time. The West Indies people came to see me. Mostly they are Indians. And then Miami, then from Miami to Atlanta, Atlanta. From Atlanta to Dallas, our Gurukula, then to New York, then to London, and from London to Bombay again.



*Śruta*-kīrti: Tehran.



*Prabhupāda: Tehran. Yes. I forgot. He has come. Here is the Tehran representative. Yes. So there was very nice meeting in Tehran. Many scholar, Muhammadan, came to see me. So everyone is understanding the importance of this movement. So in Tehran I discussed about chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that there are many names. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija*-sarva-śaktiḥ. Kṛṣṇa's name, manyfold. So I pleaded to the Muslim audience that "You can chant the name of Allah also. Not necessarily that you have to chant the Kṛṣṇa name, but any name indicating the Supreme Lord can be chanted." Because in the śāstra it is said, harer nāma, harer nāma, [Cc. Ādi 17.21] the holy name of the Lord. But it must be the name of the Lord. Actually, Kṛṣṇa has thousands of names, and His names are enumerated by His activities. Just like Kṛṣṇa accepted to become the son of mother Yaśodā; *therefore He is called Yaśodā*-nandana. Kṛṣṇa accepted Vasudeva as His father, or Nanda Mahārāja; *therefore He is called Nanda*-nandana, Vāsudeva, or Devakī-nandana. Kṛṣṇa acted as the charioteer of Arjuna; *He is called Partha*-sarathi. So Kṛṣṇa's name means attached with the activities along with His devotees. This is Kṛṣṇa's name. So if the Muhammadans' aim the Supreme Lord, Allah akbar, "God the great..." Just like we say Parabrahma. Brahman means the biggest, bṛhatvāt bṛhannatvāt. On account of being very big, including everything, that God's another name is Parabrahma. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna addressed Kṛṣṇa as Parabrahma. So Allah akbar means Parabrahma.



*So we do not make any distinction that this type of religion is better than that type of religion. Any religion which teaches how to love God, that is first*-class religion. That is the injunction of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yena ātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam does not name any particular type of religion. It says, "That religion, that system of religion, is first class," sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ, "transcendental." This "Hinduism," "Muslimism," "Christianism," they are all prākṛta, mundane. But we have to go, transcend this prākṛta, or mundane conception of religion-"We are Hindus," "We are Muslim," "We are Christian." Just like gold. Gold is gold. Gold cannot be Hindu gold or Christian gold or Muhammadan gold. Nobody... Because a lump of gold is in the hand of Hindu or in the Muslim, nobody will say, "It is Muslim gold," "It is Hindu gold." Everyone will say, "It is gold." So we have to select gold, not the Hindu gold or Muslim gold or Christian gold. When Lord Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], He did not mean this Hindu religion or Muslim religion. These are designated. So we have to come to the platform where it is pure; there is no designation. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." This is real religion. Without this conception, any kind of designated religion, that is prākṛta. That is not transcendental.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is transcendental, paro dharmaḥ. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. Para means above, above the so*-called religious system. So this is not our manufactured thing. It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the beginning, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra: "Any kind of kaitavaḥ, pretentious or false, illusory...," kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. "Cheating type of religion is rejected, thrown away," projjhita. Prākṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita. Just like we sweep over the floor, we take the last particle of dust and throw it away, similarly, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious means we have to give up all these so-called or cheating type of religious system. Because experience has shown that following the so many different designated religious systems, nobody has attained the platform of how to love God. Nobody has attained. This is practical experience. It is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He introduced. But Lord Kṛṣṇa gave hint that "This is real religion, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion." Any other religion, system of religion, which does not train the followers, how to love God, that is cheating type of religion. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, premā pum-artho mahān. And Bhāgavata says also. Real achievement of success in life is how to love God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection of life.

*So lokasya ajānataḥ. The foolish people, they do not know it. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvāṁś cakre sātvata*-saṁhitām. Because people, they do not know what is religion, what can give them actual relief, therefore vidvān, Vyāsadeva, vidvān, Vedavyāsa, vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām... The sātvata-saṁhitām. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is sātvata-saṁhitā.

anartha upaśamam sākṣād

*bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasya ajānataḥ vidvāṁś

*cakre sātvata*-saṁhitām

[SB 1.7.6]



*People are suffering from anartha, unwanted things. They do not know how to get relief from this entanglement. Therefore vidvān, the most learned scholar, Vyāsadeva, compiled Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Bhagavate mahā-muni-kṛte. Mahā-muni is Vyāsadeva. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to preach this sātvata-saṁhitā. Saṁhitā means Vedic scripture. Sātvata-saṁhitā. So people are responding, especially in the Western countries. In Africa also, they are responding. Many Africans, they have become Vaiṣṇava now. That is the latest news. And they are receiving very well.



*So by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, with the cooperation of the Western youths, this movement is going on. I have traveled all over the countries, as I reported, and everywhere I saw, I was very much pleased that saṅkīrtana is going on. And it is improving. It is not declining. That is my greatest encouragement, that even in my absence, things are going on very nicely, improving. That is very hopeful. Not only that-from the Gurukula we are training small children. There are about more than hundred children in Dallas. They are rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala āratik, boys and girls not more than ten years, not more than five, six years. So that is very hopeful. In future they will become nice Vaiṣṇava. And many children are taking birth. They are very nice devotees. In last, in our Śrīpāda Atreya-rsi's small child, about six months old, as soon as I shout out, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," immediately he'll... He'll laugh. Very nice. There are many such children. So all these children, they are Vaiṣṇavas. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. That is the... They are given chance to take birth in the family of Vaiṣṇava father and mother. From the very beginning of life, they are getting encouragement. We had such opportunity. Somehow or other, we have come to this stage. Similarly, these children, they are getting opportunity from the very beginning of their life. So on the whole, it is very hopeful that in the Western countries... Not only Western countries-especially Western countries*-we have sown some seed, that a community, Vaiṣṇava community, is now established. That is very hopeful, a Vaiṣṇava community, and they are, in America, they are now addressed, "American Hindus," these American boys and girls. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this much has been done, and they are improving more and more. They are serving Kṛṣṇa. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. This, our Gurukṛpa Mahārāja, has contributed large sum of money for our Vṛndāvana construction, and this time also, I have brought a very large sum of money, about fifty lakhs. So this will be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's business. And these people, Western people, they are serving this cause with life, prāṇair; arthair, by money; dhiyā, by intelligence; and by words.

prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā

śreyaḥ ācaraṇaṁ sadā

*etāvaj janma*-sāphalyaṁ

dehinām iha dehiṣu



*This is success of life, that we should fully engage our life, our money, our intelligence and our words for the service of the Lord. That is called sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].



*So time is very bad at the present moment everywhere, especially in India. Of course, India's original culture is all right. But unfortunately, our modern leaders, they are killing the original culture. They want to introduce Western culture. Now it is openly there are beef shop, wine shop. So what can be done? It is Kali-yuga. Everything is possible. But those who are intelligent-kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa-catura-they should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be successful of this human form of life. Hari hari bifale, janama goṅāinu, manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa na bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Anyone who is not taking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, surely he is taking poison knowingly. That is the fact. Everyone, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12], no qualification. The so-called education has no meaning, no value. So it is not a whim that one may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and one may not. No. It is compulsory. One must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness; otherwise his life is spoiled, śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



One may think of executing his religious principles very nicely, but if he does not awaken his dormant love for Kṛṣṇa, then all activities in that direction is supposed to be simply waste of time, simply waste of time, spoiling. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu.



So our request to everyone, especially who are a little bit inclined... (end)



750323AR.MAY

Arrival Talk in Room

-

Māyāpur, March 23, 1975



Prabhupāda: ...his blessings upon you. You are fulfilling his mission. He wanted that European, American should come here. It is all Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's blessing. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So there is no scarcity of space for keeping all the devotees?



Bhavānanda: Everyone is situated...



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Bhavānanda: Everyone is situated in rooms.



Jayapatākā: Without these dwelling..., wall dwellings, there would have been no hope.



Prabhupāda: Therefore I said, (laughter) "You must complete, and whatever amount required, I shall pay." That I could analyze. (temple bells ringing in background) [break]



Jayapatākā: ...you Śrīla Prabhupāda. Only by your mercy you have brought us to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Prabhupāda: Yes. I am simply messenger. Mercy is of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and Śrīla Prabhupāda. Before your coming they predicted, that "Somebody will bring." Maybe that somebody I am. (chuckles) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura predicted. So anyway, Kṛṣṇa has given us nice place. Stay here. So you producing food grains?



Jayapatākā: Oh, yes.



Prabhupāda: Sufficient? What about the fruit garden?



Jayapatākā: Fruit garden, there is a... Many banana trees are producing their bananas, some pomegranate...



Prabhupāda: You are getting banana, both unripe and ripe.



Jayapatākā: Now they are all unripe. But they'll be ripe, pakka.



Prabhupāda: No, there is a class...



Jayapatākā: Right, the kacha kola we have..., getting very small. We have mostly the ripe bananas.



Prabhupāda: And parwala?



Jayapatākā: Parwala, yes.



Prabhupāda: Where you are here producing parwala?



Jayapatākā: Parwala, oh, across the road we get.



Prabhupāda: How many... [break] One who is sincerely engaged in the service of the Lord, He gives him intelligence, "Now do this, do this." Simply we have to become sincere servant; then all dictation will come from within. Kṛṣṇa is there is everyone's heart. So work sincerely and everything will make progress. Who has painted this picture?



Acyutānanda: Puṣkara.



Prabhupāda: Ohh. Very nice. So Atreya-ṛṣi prabhu, you are feeling all right here?



Jayapatākā: You feeling all right here?



Atreya-ṛṣi: Yes.



Jayatīrtha: The atmosphere here is sublime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Now make sublime management. (laughter) That is required now. We are now extended. We must manage very nicely. Of course, management means sincere service. Then everything will be all right. Still, we have to deal with the material world. We have to become little proper.(?) So in Calcutta the one lock was open. There was nothing. You said it is in Calcutta? Is it all right? You don't require fan. Therefore I planned two sides open, cross ventilation.



Jayapatākā: Everything you plan is perfect.



Prabhupāda: No. I imagine. Kṛṣṇa makes it perfect. I think, "It would have been nice if it would have been like this," but Kṛṣṇa... Yei prasāde pūre sarva āśā. Long, long ago, when I was publishing Back to Godhead, one sheet, I was thinking that "What is this sheet? If it would have been like Illustrated Weekly, then it would have been nice." Now they are coming like that.



Jayapatākā: Now Illustrated Weekly is nothing compared to Back to Godhead.



*Prabhupāda: No. (laughs) Better than Illustrated Weekly. I thought of getting some help from artist. For painting picture, I will dictate, and they will paint picture. Now Kṛṣṇa has got lots of artists. So depend on Kṛṣṇa. He can do everything. Kṛṣṇa*-Balarāma. This new catalogue you have seen? They have made nice catalogue, Rāmeśvara prabhu. Rāmeśvara prabhu is very competent manager of the BBT.



Jayatīrtha: Yes, he's first class.



Prabhupāda: Yes. And he works very hard. That is his qualification. What is the news of our Karandhara prabhu? He's not coming?



Jayatīrtha: He came. The week before we left, he came three times to the temple, twice for the evening āratik and once for the Sunday feast. He came and listened to the lecture. So he is doing a little better. [break]



Rāmeśvara: Scientific Basis?



Prabhupāda: Yes?



Rāmeśvara: It is being printed now in America.



Prabhupāda: Oh, you wanted to bring it?



Rāmeśvara: We may print it in India also.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Rāmeśvara: But to get it in the selling right away we printed it in America.



Prabhupāda: You have brought some book? You have brought some books?



Rāmeśvara: Not too many of those, because they're still printing.



Prabhupāda: All right.



*Jayatīrtha: We brought some copies of that Ādi*-līlā, Chapter Seven. [break]



*Prabhupāda: This is conclusion. Because he is Arjuna, devotee, he simply understood, "Yes. Whatever You say, correct. The demons or even the gods, they cannot understand." Why Arjuna understood? That he has explained in that Eighteenth Chapter. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtiṁ labdhā tvat*-prasādād madhusūdana.



Trivikrama: Is he never envious?



Prabhupāda: Huh? (pause) [break]



Paramahaṁsa: "Arjuna said, My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and prepared to act according to Your instructions."



Prabhupāda: That's it. He understood that "Kṛṣṇa is divine. So whatever He says, that is my duty to do, not to judge Him on my platform." That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. One who does not take Kṛṣṇa in the same platform as one is but accepts Kṛṣṇa's personality, then he can understand. Otherwise how one can accept it that a person has expanded many millions of universes like this? Immediately they will they will take as mythology, because he's thinking on terms of his capacity, not as Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore nobody could understand Kṛṣṇa. We took the simple method: accept Kṛṣṇa as He says. That's all. Finished. That is the main business. Our philosophy is simple because we take it, Kṛṣṇa's word, as it is, that's all. And we believe it firmly: "Yes, this is the truth." To understand Kṛṣṇa is not difficult. What Kṛṣṇa says, you accept it. Sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: [Bg. 10.14] "Whatever You say, I accept it. Not only I accept it blindly, but this very thing was accepted by such great personality as Vyāsadeva." (aside:) Anyone who wants to come... Simple thing. Big, big ācāryas, they accepted Kṛṣṇa as He is. And why shall I not accept? This is paramparā system. If others have accepted Kṛṣṇa as He tells, and they have become big, big ācāryas, so what objection can be there from my part? What I am?



Paramahaṁsa: They have some completely illogical argument. Just like those people...



Prabhupāda: Unfortunate. Illogical argument means unfortunate. Rascals. Therefore we say plainly, "You are all rascals." That's all. You have no discrimination. Anyone who does not believe as He is, he's a rascal. That's all. He may be happy or sorry. You don't mind. You don't make compromise. At least I do not do. If you have not full faith in Kṛṣṇa, then you are a rascal, that's all, whatever you may be. The Dr. Patel does not like this, but he does not protest to me. As others say, he protests by that. It is a fact. We have no difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa and thus make our life successful. But we unnecessarily bring arguments, impediments to understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are unfortunate, envious of Kṛṣṇa.



Trivikrama: Envious.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Paramahaṁsa: They say that... They become very agitated when we stress so much, in Bhagavad*-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa is God.



Prabhupāda: That means envious, envious.



Paramahaṁsa: Yes, envious. They say, "Why is it so...? Why do you stress...?"



Prabhupāda: Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān. Find out. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān.



Paramahaṁsa:



tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān

saṁsāreṣu narādhamān

kṣipāmy ajasram...

[Bg. 16.19]



Prabhupāda: Ajasram yoniṣu.



Paramahaṁsa:



kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān

āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu



"Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life."



Prabhupāda: All of them are going to Russia to take birth. Yes. Not Russian people are bad. That is a mistake. Some of them. Some people are good. That I have experienced. Otherwise how... (aside:) Don't do that. Otherwise how that Anatole came to become my...? And there are many like that, mostly like him. It is by artificial suppression that it has been advertised, "The Russian people are all Communist." That's not fact. That's not fact. Simply some rogues and thieves and demons, by threats... It is a country of, what is called? Terrorism. A terror. People have decided to leave this country, but they cannot leave. Mostly Russians, they want to leave that country, and some of them already done so. Many Russians have fled away. Many Chinese men have fled away. They don't like this philosophy.



Paramahaṁsa: Also the East Europe countries, Eastern Europe countries.



Prabhupāda: Many countries. It is unnatural to deny God. It is unnatural. This is also Kṛṣṇa's another magic. All such people who had any doubt about Kṛṣṇa, they have been kept over there in Russia. Just like the other day there was a train crash accident. So all these rascals they are brought together in that way in a train or two train, and they smashed. That is... Just like Kṛṣṇa did in Battle of Kurukṣetra. All the rascals were brought into the battlefield and finished. (end)





750620A2.LA

Arrival Address

-

Los Angeles, June 20, 1975



*Prabhupāda: (leads Prema*-dhvanī) ...Gaṅgā-mayī ki jaya. New Dvārakā dhāma ki jaya. New Dvārakā dhāma ki jaya. Samavetā bhakta-vṛnda ki jaya. All glories to the assembled devotees, all glories to the assembled devotees, all glories to the assembled devotees. Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)



So I shall go now? Speaking something? Our speaking is the same, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21].

Devotees: Haribol! Prabhupāda!



*Prabhupāda: We have no new discovery. We don't manufacture. This is our process. We simply follow the predecessor's instruction. That's all. Our movement is very easy because we haven't got to manufacture something. We simply repeat the words and the instruction given by the predecessor. Kṛṣṇa instructed Brahmā, Brahmā instructed Nārada, Nārada instructed Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva instructed Madhvācārya, and, in this way, then Mādhavendra Purī, Īśvara Purī, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then the Six Gosvāmīs, then the Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, Viśvanātha Cakravartī, Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Gaurakiśora dāsa Bābājī, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, and then we are doing the same thing. There is no difference. That is the specific procedure of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You are singing daily, guru*-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā **. Very simple thing. We are receiving the transcendental knowledge through guru-paramparā succession. So we have to simply take instruction from guru, and if we execute that to our heart and soul, that is success. That is practical.



*I have no personal qualification, but I simply tried to satisfy my guru. That's all. My Guru Mahārāja asked me that "If you get some money, you print books." So there was a private meeting, talking, some of my important Godbrothers also there. It was in Rādhā*-kuṇḍa. So Guru Mahārāja was speaking to me that "Since we have got this Bagh Bazaar marble temple, there has been so many dissensions, and everyone thinking who will occupy this room or that room, that room. I wish, therefore, to sell this temple and the marble and print some book." Yes. So I took up this from his mouth, that he is very fond of books. And he told me personally that "If you get some money, print books." Therefore I am stressing on this point: "Where is book? Where is book? Where is book?" So kindly help me. This is my request. Print as many books in as many languages and distribute throughout the whole world. Then Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will automatically increase. Now the educated learned scholars, they are appreciating our movement by reading books, by taking practical result. Dr. Stillson Judah, he has written one book, perhaps you know, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, a very nice book about our movement, and he is giving importance. He has admitted that "Swamijī, you have done wonderful thing because you have turned the drug-addicted hippies into devotees of Kṛṣṇa, and they are prepared for the service of humanity."

*So this movement is so important. We are giving the best service to the humanity. They are plunged into ignorance. All, they are rascals, mūḍha. It is not our manufactured word. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So we have this test tube. If you see one has no information of Kṛṣṇa, then he is mūḍha. We haven't got to study more: whether he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, whether he has got any portion of his heart attracted, attached to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means attraction. So whether he has been attracted by Kṛṣṇa. That is our natural position-to become attracted by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. Just like the magnetic stone attracts the iron. It is natural. And if the iron is covered with dirt, then it does not become attracted. So this is the test, to make people prepared for being attracted by Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They are by nature... Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. It is not unnatural. Otherwise how you European, American, you are so much attracted to Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa is artificial and Kṛṣṇa consciousness is artificial something, so how you should be attracted? That they are surprised. They are attracted because that attraction is there already. We are trying simply to awaken that attraction. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. The matter is already there. Just like the young man and young woman, the attraction is already there, nitya-siddha. It is natural. And when they come near, talk little confidentially, then attraction increases, not that an artificial attraction. Similarly, our attraction for Kṛṣṇa is already there. Therefore... That is the Vṛndāvana picture. Vṛndāvana, everything is attracted with Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. The animals, the trees, the flowers, the land, and the cowherd boys, the elderly cowherds men, Nanda Mahārāja and others*-all are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana. The Yamunā water, everything. Fruits, flowers and everything. That is Vṛndāvana. So Kṛṣṇa is the center of attraction. You might have read that when Brahmā stolen all Kṛṣṇa's associates, so He created Himself again all of them, and everyone was feeling more attracted by Kṛṣṇa. So this is natural. This is not unnatural. Our position is, natural position is, to be attracted by Kṛṣṇa. If we do not become attracted by Kṛṣṇa, that is unnatural. And to become attracted by Kṛṣṇa, that is not unnatural. That is natural.

*So we want to revive our natural position, uncovered position. Now we are covered by dust, by dirt, by corroding materials. So we have to cleanse this. Therefore the bhakti process is sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. I am thinking I am Indian. You are thinking you are American. This is a dirty thing, covering the spirit soul. So we have to cleanse this. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam means cleansed. When we become cleansed of all dirty things of material modes of nature, then we are prepared to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. That... We do not become zero, śūnyavādi. No. We become cleansed, and as soon as we become cleansed, with clean senses when you serve Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So this process, the śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, this is the process of cleansing. So more you chant, more you hear, the more you become cleansed, more you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just prolong this process and be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



750620AR.LA

Arrival Conversation

-

Los Angeles, June 20, 1975



Jayatīrtha: Now everything is very nice.



Prabhupāda: When you have come?



Brahmānanda: I came Wednesday evening.



Prabhupāda: So you look bright.



Brahmānanda: Oh, thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: So, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, how is your preaching going on?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very well, Śrīla Prabhupāda, thank you.



Prabhupāda: Nice now. Yes. So Sudāmā is doing nice?



Jayatīrtha: Yes, he seems to be. He gave a very nice lecture the other night. He seems to be very, how would you say it? Repatriated. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...is behind. Why?



Jayatīrtha: Well, now we are catching up. Now things are becoming much more organized. But at the end in New York, things were very disorganized, and nothing was getting done.



Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda Mahārāja, you kindly inquire where is the bottleneck.



Brahmānanda: Yes. From what I have seen already, they are doing much more than before.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still, you are behind so many books.



Brahmānanda: They are giving one book now to the printer.



Prabhupāda: Oh, there are seventeen books behind?



*Brahmānanda: Hayagrīva is today finished the Sixth Volume of Madhya*-līlā. There are nine volumes altogether.



Prabhupāda: No. I have heard that seventeen books are behind. Why? Very slow. You should rather want me to give more matter. But you are behind. What is the reason? Editorial department?



Jayatīrtha: Now the editorial department is doing very good.



Prabhupāda: But you are behind so many books.



Jayatīrtha: The only thing which is a little slow now is the Bengali departments. But now, with Nitāi and Jagannātha coming, it should be...



Prabhupāda: Bengali?



Jayatīrtha: The Bengali editing is a little behind still. But the other departments are going at the rate of two books a month. If we can now just bring the Bengali department...



Prabhupāda: Books are not coming out.



Jayatīrtha: No, because during the whole, until they left New York, hardly anything was getting done, and then they went to India, the whole Press, so nothing was getting done, and then they moved. So now they've been here about three weeks. Since they've been here almost one whole books has been finished, and the rate has become very much increased.



*Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto is finished, Sixth Canto half*-finished.



*Jayatīrtha: Sixth Canto half*-finished? That's very nice.



Prabhupāda: You have finished only Fourth Canto.



Jayatīrtha: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Fifth Canto not yet published. Haṁsadūta has sent some copies of xerox. At all universities they are giving standing order. Oxford University, London University. In London, England, they are also giving standing order for Bhāgavatam and Caitanya*-caritāmṛta.



Jayatīrtha: Oh, yes. That's a fact. Satsvarūpa is coming tonight.



Prabhupāda: And Dr. Judah has written one very nice book. I have read it.



Brahmānanda: Dr. Judah's book.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I have read it. Did you like that book?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.



Jayatīrtha: He's coming here in four days to see you.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very scholarly written, and he has appreciated our...



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've met him many times. Every day we are performing the festival, kīrtana, he is very favorable.



*Prabhupāda: He's a good man. He has studied the movement very fairly. He is only surprised, "How these drug*-addicted hippies have become devotee?" That is his surprise. He has mentioned that, that "We appreciate your movement, that you have turned so many drug-addicted hippies into devotee of Kṛṣṇa and in the service of humanity." That they are appreciating. And that is the fact. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. If one is turned into devotee, then all the good qualities automatically become manifest. That is the verdict of Bhāgavata. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who is not a devotee, his material qualification has no value. Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. He is hovering over the mental plane. Therefore in your country, Western country, the so-called big, big philosophers, scientists, they could not do anything tangible, because they are hovering on the mental plane. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Manorathena. Mana means mind and ratha means car. They are driving on the mental car. So mind is material. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja-selling more books?



Jayatīrtha: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja is selling the most books.



Prabhupāda: He is collecting $30,000?



Jayatīrtha: How much you are collecting, Tamāla, last month?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we collected a lot.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The collection is very good. The books are selling.



Prabhupāda: Selling amongst public or educational institution?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are selling to all classes of people, big books and small books.



Prabhupāda: You have got now proper engagement.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I started by doing this.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. No. You are feeling happy in this engagement.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'm happy to serve you, Prabhupāda. Whatever pleases you makes me happy. We are getting many new men. Now we have about 115 men.



Prabhupāda: So, another bus?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, more and more buses.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Your country is full of buses. Yasmin deśe yad ācaraḥ. Your country is of motorcar, so take advantage of motorcar and utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. That is the tactics. Not that "Oh, we have become Vaiṣṇava. We don't touch motorcar. It is material." This is not our philosophy. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta*-vairāgyam ucyate. We can utilize everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa because we see everything Kṛṣṇa's. If the motorcar is there, it is for Kṛṣṇa. That is our mission. Karandhara came there.



Jayatīrtha: Karandhara came. Yes.



Prabhupāda: So he said, "I am again surrendered." (laughs)



Jayatīrtha: I hope so.



Prabhupāda: So he has gone to Tehran?



Jayatīrtha: Yes. A letter just came from him recently saying that he was very enthusiastic in his service there.



*Prabhupāda: He is business*-minded. Let him do business for Kṛṣṇa.



Jayatīrtha: Yes. He says there is so much money there they don't know how to spend it. In Iran people have so much money they don't what to do with it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. They are getting money for nothing. (laughs)



Jayatīrtha: Yes. Right. It's coming out of the ground.



Prabhupāda: And the Bengali saying, dhula mati bhatta kare mata (?): "They are catching dust and it is turning into coin." This proverb is there, dhula mati bhatta kare mato. He is thinking that I am taking some dust, but when it is in hand, it is coin. That is good time. And when it is bad time, if you catch coin and when it is in your hand, it is dust. We should think that time may also come. Yes. Because after all, it is Kṛṣṇa's desire, turn dust into coin, to turn coin into dust. So we should be always careful. If we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the coin will never turn into dust. Otherwise it can be turned. So you American, you are now full of coins. Before turning into dust, catch Kṛṣṇa with the coin. It will never turn into dust. It will remain coin. Hmm? I am very hopeful of the Americans. Because you are so nice devotees, you can keep your country coinful, no dustful. India is giving up Kṛṣṇa, and therefore they are turning into dust.



Jayatīrtha: So much dust.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole thing is being done by the mercy of your books, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That's all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The effect of these books is hard to perceive immediately because we can't imagine how... So many millions of books have gone out. In the future they will all fructify as devotees, the people who have read them.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. When they will read, then they will get. Nowadays in the Sixth Canto, Fourth Chapter, the soul and how the soul is covered, that is being described wonderfully. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. It is written by the most learned Vyāsadeva, vidvāṁs, and sātvata-saṁhitām. How merciful he was. He is still living, Vyāsadeva. He is still existing.



anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

*bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasya ajānataḥ vidvāṁś

cakre sātvata...

[SB 1.7.6]



Do you remember this verse? It is in the First Canto. Anartha. The soul has been embarrassed, the unnecessary things. Just like a man is within the huge garbage. What is his position? If... You have got your garbage car, so within that, (chuckles) if a man is pushed...



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Abominable.



*Prabhupāda: It is like that. Twenty*-four elements. Five material elements, three subtle elements, then five working senses and five all knowledge gathering senses-how many?



Jayatīrtha: Eighteen.



Prabhupāda: Eighteen? No.



Jayatīrtha: So far.



*Prabhupāda: Twenty*-three, I think. Five gross elements, five senses..., five knowledge gathering senses, and five working senses, fifteen,...



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then the objects...



Jayatīrtha: Three subtle...



*Prabhupāda: The mind, ego, and mahat*-tattva, eighteen, yes. And then five sense objects, the rūpa, rasa, form, taste, like that. Then twenty-three.



Jayatīrtha: The aggregate, pradhāna.



*Prabhupāda: Pradhāna, and then the soul, twenty*-five. Twenty-four and three guṇas. Three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Twenty-seven. So twenty-seven layers of garbage. Underneath, the soul is. What he will do? He is a small particle, soul, and he is covered with so many material elements. To come out of it is very very difficult. But if one is engaged in devotional service he can come out immediately. Just like when one is spiritually perfect, he goes immediately to Kṛṣṇa, penetrating these material coverings of the universe. Immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9], immediately. That is spiritual force.



māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



So can you give me a list how much money you have to realize from our devotees who have taken money, loan?



Jayatīrtha: Who have taken money in loan? You mean unauthorized loan?



Prabhupāda: Not unauthorized, authorized.



Jayatīrtha: Oh, how much Book Trust has loaned...



Prabhupāda: Unauthorized also? There are?



Jayatīrtha: How much Book Trust loans there are. You want to see the list of Book Trust loans?



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.



Jayatīrtha: Yes, we can give you that list.



Prabhupāda: There is unauthorized loan also?



Jayatīrtha: I thought you were... Sometimes in the past from time to time these things have gone on.



Prabhupāda: Past is all right. Have you received any news from Bombay?



Brahmānanda: Yes, there's two letter from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. Pālikā brought them. Pālikā has come.



Prabhupāda: Oh. So what is the position there?



Brahmānanda: Well, I haven't read the letters yet, but she was saying that on the whole Mr. Matri now is diminishing. They have met with his superior in the party, and the superior is very much, he's not happy with Mr. Matri's activities and his reputation, and he says that in the forthcoming election he may not even put him on the election ballot.



Prabhupāda: That will be right punishment for him. Then he will understand. That will be more than death. Yes. Politicians, if they are refused political seat, that is more than death. Just like Kṛṣṇa was advising Arjuna that "You are known as a great hero, and if you don't fight then they will blaspheme you like anything. So that will be more than death. Better die. When they will say nindanti, 'Oh, the Arjuna has become a coward. He could not fight. He will die.' So that blaspheme will be more than death." So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa it has come to the notice of the...



Brahmānanda: The other party members, the party superiors, they are... His reputation is damaging their party.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Brahmānanda: His activities are so unscrupulous.



*Prabhupāda: And what about the N.O.C.? No*-Objection Certificate?



*Brahmānanda: I don't know the details, but Pālikā said that they are..., the holes have been dug and they're expecting to put the foundation in before the monsoon. And that there was some attempt to stop the some digging. but that has been defeated. When I was there there was question about getting the No*-Objection Certificate for the already-existing temple.



Prabhupāda: Existing temple?



Brahmānanda: Well, the little temple we have there now.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every year it has to be renewed.



*Brahmānanda: Yeah. So this year they have by some trick they have made it that the police must give their No*-Objection Certificate. Usually that is not required each year.



Prabhupāda: They are harassing us in so many ways. Only in Bombay.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means if we become successful finally, it will be a tremendous success, I think.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something very big will happen there.



Brahmānanda: They've concluded that the opposition is not from the central government but from the local. Because the projects are going on without being hampered in other places in India. It is only in Bombay that we are getting this difficulty.



Prabhupāda: In central government that Indira Gandhi is now...



Brahmānanda: Her position is now jeopardized.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?



Prabhupāda: She is convicted. That election was not properly...



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who has convicted her?



*Brahmānanda: High*-court.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How was... I am surprised they could do that. She's practically like a dictator.



Prabhupāda: And she has been done in his (her) own city, Allahabad.



Brahmānanda: They have lost the election, Congress Party.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, this is a recent new election.



Brahmānanda: Yes, in Gujarat.



*Prabhupāda: Now our next attempt will be Kurukṣetra, where Kṛṣṇa personally spoke Bhagavad-gītā. Recently I have been in Kurukṣetra. You were... Yes. So I have decided to do something there. Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa personally spoke there. Our two movements-we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā and we are holding Ratha-yātrā*-all these two incidences took place at Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetra is so important. Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma, and His sister, on some occasion of lunar eclipse, they came from Dvārakā in a chariot, ratha, two brothers and sister, and that is the occasion of Ratha-yātrā. And the Vṛndāvana inhabitants, especially Rādhārāṇī, they came from Vṛndāvana to see Kṛṣṇa after long time. And she pleaded that "Kṛṣṇa, You are the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rādhārāṇī..." (Prabhupāda is coughing) Is there any water? No. "But this place is not the proper place. Let Us go to Vṛndāvana." That is Mahāprabhu's feeling.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You've expressed that in Madhya*-līlā.



*Prabhupāda: That Mahāprabhu's feeling of Kṛṣṇa is like that. Therefore He took part in the Ratha*-yātrā and invited Kṛṣṇa, "Come to Vṛndāvana." So these two important things took place in the Kurukṣetra. So we must have a very big temple there, and a varṇāśrama college. This is my desire. Kṛṣṇa's direct instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It should be a historical... It is historical. People should come here as the most important historical place. And Gītā is well known all over the world. And Gītā begins with the word dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1]. So Kurukṣetra, in that sense very important.



Brahmānanda: That was one of the first things you told us when you came, that Kurukṣetra is an actual place. There's a railway station. People can go there.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Brahmānanda: We had never known that. We thought it was something mythological or...



Jayatīrtha: Allegorical.



Prabhupāda: That is not. These political leaders, they have made it. (reading sign:) Carpeteria. They manufacture carpet? We are already on the Venice road? No?



Jayatīrtha: Yes. This is Venice Boulevard.



Prabhupāda: You have got my passbook?



Jayatīrtha: From the Liberty Bank?



Prabhupāda: Not Liberty. Bank of America?



Jayatīrtha: Passbook.



Prabhupāda: Investment passbook?



Jayatīrtha: Oh, from that savings account.



Prabhupāda: I sent it to be made..., for making it up to date.



Jayatīrtha: You mailed it?



Prabhupāda: No, I gave to Gurukṛpa and he sent through somebody.



Jayatīrtha: He did not give it to me. Maybe he gave it to Rāmeśvara. I'll check with him. I think he must have forgotten.



Prabhupāda: So the engineering block is now occupied?



Jayatīrtha: Oh, yes. As we go by it, you can see the big sign is there, "Bhaktivedanta Book Trust." It's over here to the left.



*Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) So that Bhaktivedanta go*-down has come here? No.



*Jayatīrtha: No, go*-down is still there. This building is not large enough for that.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have not seen this building yet, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Oh, here is for lease. (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Jayatīrtha discuss in background about leasing one of the buildings for a restaurant) [break]



(in Prabhupāda's room:)

Prabhupāda: But when they live, the tendency is there. Naturally I want to love somebody. It is not unnatural. When that love is reposed to Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. The Māyāvādīs, they are frustrated; therefore they want to make this love into zero. They cannot understand Kṛṣṇa's love with gopīs. They think it is another edition of this material... Oh, how are you, Hayagrīva prabhu? How are you? You look better. You are looking better, brighter than when I saw you in New Vrindaban last. You have got so much talents for serving Kṛṣṇa. Everyone has got. That I am speaking. We have to utilize it. From the very beginning I met you, I instructed to edit. That was the starting of our Back to Godhead. He is good typist also. You know that? (laughter) I think he is the best of all of our men. He can type very swiftly and correctly. I think in our group Hayagrīva prabhu and Satsvarūpa Mahārāja are very good typist. And Jayādvaita I think you are also, no?



Jayādvaita: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: You are good typist? (laughter) So why you have not published Bali*-mardana's article?



*Jayādvaita: Bali*-mardana's article.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Jayādvaita: We were waiting. We weren't sure if it was appropriate to publish it.



Prabhupāda: He thought disappointed. He has published. He has written very nicely.



Jayādvaita: He has written nicely?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Jayādvaita: We can publish it?



Prabhupāda: So we should... Yes, here is the... What is that?



Brahmānanda: "Illusion and reality," two essays...



Prabhupāda: He has presented very nicely. So we should encourage our men.



Jayādvaita: Publish it.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. And our men, all our men should write. Otherwise how we shall know that he has understood the philosophy? Writing means śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Śravaṇam means hearing from the authority and again repeat it. This is our business, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], about Viṣṇu, not for any politician or any other man. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, about Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. So that is success. Hear and repeat, hear and repeat. You haven't got to manufacture. Any one of us, simply if you reproduce the purport which I have given in the Bhāgavata, you become a good speaker. What I am doing? I am the same thing, writing the same thing so that modern man can understand. Otherwise we are repeating the same thing. They are repeating also same thing, sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. But because that is material, they are not getting happiness. But the spiritual thing, we are chanting the same Hare Kṛṣṇa, simply repeating, but we are getting transcendental bliss. What we are doing? Same "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." So process is the same, the subject matter is different. So why you are behind publication? Now all the big men are here. Why our books are behind? Why? Here the editors are there. I don't think there is any scarcity.



Rāmeśvara: Now there is no scarcity.



Prabhupāda: Huh? You have formerly... [break]



Rāmeśvara: If we want to have the books printed very quickly, they have to be printed in America, the new books.



Prabhupāda: And the reprint there.



Rāmeśvara: Yes, we can do that.



Prabhupāda: So why not give them some book also for ordinary?



Rāmeśvara: We are giving them a lot of business this year in Japan.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. We must deal with them very nicely. They have helped in the beginning. Yes. I gave them only $5,000 start, and I gave the order for 52,000, but they supplied. They got money. They were confident that we shall not cheat them. So our relation is very nice. So utilize it. [break] ...girl was, that the Japanese, they like our publication.



*Rāmeśvara: Girl. Mūla*-prakṛti.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



*Rāmeśvara: That girl that was seeing you in Hawaii, Mūla*-prakṛti.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. She was very enthusiastic. Mūla*-prakṛti? Where is Yadubara prabhu? Where is?



Jayatīrtha: He's right here.



Prabhupāda: Oh. You are feeling now nice?



Yadubara: Yes. I'm much improved.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. So everyone feeling nice?



Devotees: Yes.



Prabhupāda: You are also feeling nice?



Viśākhā: Now I am all right.



Rāmeśvara: The devotees at the Press will not feel nice until all your books are published.



Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.



Jayatīrtha: They are working now night shifts also.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



*Rāmeśvara: Twenty*-four hours.



*Jayatīrtha: Twenty*-four hours on the composers so that we can take full advantage of the machines.



Prabhupāda: And Hayagrīva prabhu, how many papers you are finishing? You can finish fifty papers at least.



Hayagrīva: I am trying. One hour a tape.



*Rādhā*-vallabha: Hayagrīva finished editing Volume Six of Madhya-līlā today.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, Volume Six, Caitanya*-caritāmṛta?



*Rādhā*-vallabha: Yes. Out of nine volumes, Hayagrīva has finished six of Madhya-līlā.



Prabhupāda: Altogether there will be nine volumes?



*Rāmeśvara: Of Madhya*-līlā.



*Jayatīrtha: Madhya*-līlā, all nine volumes.



*Rādhā*-vallabha: And four volumes Antya-līlā.



Jayatīrtha: Altogether sixteen volumes.



Prabhupāda: Where is our Gargamuni?



Bhavānanda: He is in the east. Buffalo.



Prabhupāda: Preaching?



Bhavānanda: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So, you are with him, Sudāmā?



Sudāmā: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Preaching is going on nice?



Sudāmā: Yes.



*Jayatīrtha: Hayagrīva told me that the whole Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, the editing, will be finished by the end of August.



Prabhupāda: They are coming also, Nitāi...?



Jayatīrtha: Nitāi and Jagannātha are going to be coming...



Rāmeśvara: In about three days.



Jayatīrtha: By the end of July they'll be... So it is going very fast now.



Prabhupāda: Very good. Tūrṇaṁ yateta. We should try very fast before the next death comes. And death will come. So we shall prepare in such a way that before the next death comes, our, we finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness business and go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. This is perfection. Because if we wait for another birth, maybe we may not get. Even Bhārata Mahārāja, he also slipped. He became a deer. So we should always be vigilant that "We have got this opportunity, human form of life. Let us utilize it to the fullest extent and be fit for going back to home, back to Godhead." That is intelligence. Not that "All right, I shall get again chance next birth." That is not very good policy. Tūrṇam. Tūrṇam means very hastily finish. Tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyuṁ pated yāvat. (sound of men practicing karate outside has pervaded background of entire room conversation) These people are wasting time, as if they will live forever. (chuckles) What is the use of this kar...?



Jayatīrtha: Karate.



Prabhupāda: Karate. It is very popular in Mexico.



Jayatīrtha: Everywhere.



*Prabhupāda: But will that method save from death? When the death will come, will the sound "Go!" (laughter) will save them? This is foolishness. Instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they are resounding some sound, thinking that the sound will save him. This is called foolishness, mūḍha. (karate men begin shouting very loudly) Piśācī pāile jane mati*-cchanna haya. And if you ask them that "Why you are sounding so loudly? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they will laugh. (chuckles)



Viṣṇujana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what did Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura mean when he said, "I am going, my work unfinished"?



Prabhupāda: Hmm?



Viṣṇujana: When Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura stated that he was leaving this planet with his work unfinished.



*Prabhupāda: Then let us finish. We are descendant of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So he kept unfinished so that we shall get the chance to finish it. That is his mercy. He could have finished immediately. He is Vaiṣṇava, he is all*-powerful. But he gave us chance that "You foolish people, you all also work." That is his mercy. So we should pray to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura that "We are your grandchildren, great-grandchildren, so we have got some right to beg some mercy from you. The grandchildren get some indulgence from the grandfather. So I pray like that." It is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's mercy. A Vaiṣṇava can... Kṛṣṇa doesn't require anyone's help. Still, He is asking, "Surrender to Me." He doesn't require anyone's surrender. But it is for him good, one who surrenders. Not Kṛṣṇa is in need of anyone's service. He is complete. But He comes as if He is in helpless condition and asking for us to surrender. So that is for his good. One who is surrendered, he'll get the result. Kṛṣṇa is self-sufficient. Similarly, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is self-sufficient. But if he said that "I (am) keeping unfinished," that means he gave us the chance, the opportunity. So we should always pray to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura to be merciful upon us so that we can execute his unfinished task. That should be our... And never we should think that "What Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura could not finish, I have finished." Don't think like that. It is not like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, eka ki āmāra nāhi pāya. (pause) You have not given index. That I have instructed. You should now prepare index.



Jayādvaita: That is being done for all the volumes.



Prabhupāda: All the volumes must have index.



*Rādhā*-vallabha: All the Caitanya-caritāmṛta volumes have indexes.



Jayādvaita: Bengali index.



Prabhupāda: This is the last one.



Rāmeśvara: Bengali and Sanskrit verses, and then general index.



Prabhupāda: Is there any ekaki āmāra nāhi pāya mora? Eka ki?



*Viṣṇujana: Eke eke milila prabhu saba bhakta*-gaṇa.



Prabhupāda: No, no, not that. [break] ...observing ekādaśī today?



Devotees: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So... (end)





750627AR.DEN

Arrival Address

-

Denver, June 27, 1975



Prabhupāda: Who sang this song? You sang. You know the meaning?



Devotee: "O venerable Vaiṣṇava, O ocean of mercy, please be merciful unto your servant. Please give me one drop of mercy. I pray for the shade of your lotus feet."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has also said, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava*-sevā, nistāra pāyeche kebā. Our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for nistāra. Nistāra means to be liberated from the capture of māyā. That is called nistāra, release, release from the capture of māyā. So Vaiṣṇava... Chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā, nistāra pāyeche kebā. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, another Vaiṣṇava... As it sung by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, similarly, you know that Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he also has sung many song, approved songs. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's songs are Vedic evidence. All Vaiṣṇavas, songs are like that, Vedic evidence. There is no mistake, cheating, imperfectness or illusion. Conditioned soul, they are manufacturing by mental concoction. That is another thing. They are full of imperfection, illusion, mistake and cheating. But when we hear songs by the Vaiṣṇava, that is for liberation.



*So I am very glad to see this temple. You have purchased it? No. That's nice, very good space. And devotees are very nice. So our process is very simple, that we dedicate our life to the service of Vaiṣṇava and, according to his direction, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, hearing and chanting of Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, and refrain from the sinful activities. Then life is successful. It is not very difficult. We do not require to be very learned scholar or very rich men or to take birth in a very high family. We do not require all these things. If we are endowed with all these blessings, janma aiśvarya śruta śrī*-means birth in high family or great nation, to be very opulent, rich, and very highly educated, or very beautiful-these things are very good material possessions. But if we have got them, it is all right. Even if we have not got, there is no impediment. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti is without any check by any material condition. Anyone can execute this devotional service, provided he wants to do it. And especially when one is endowed with other blessings, it is just like good scent in gold. Gold is appreciated by everyone. It is valuable, but there is no good flavor. Similarly, janma aiśvarya, to... You American boys and girls, you are born of a very big nation. That is very good. You are all educated, you are beautiful, and janma aiś..., śruta śrī, four things. These things are just like gold. But if you add Kṛṣṇa consciousness along with these qualification, then gold with flavor. Gold is valuable, and if there is flavor, it is more valuable. Of course, in the material world there is no gold which has got good scent. But in the spiritual world that is possible. So with your intelligence, with your opulence, add Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then nationally, individually, collectively you will be glorified. I am very glad that you have opened this center. It is nice place. And execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very simple, not difficult, if we want to execute. But I am glad that you are doing that. Our Satsvarūpa Mahārāja is guiding you, and I thank you very much for your kind reception. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750703AR.CHI

Arrival

-

Chicago, July 3, 1975



Devotee(?): Your Divine Grace, this is Royal Kennedy from NBC television.



Royal Kennedy: How do you do?



Devotee (1): She would like to ask you some questions.



Royal Kennedy: I would like to know what the occasion is. Why are you visiting Chicago?



Prabhupāda: Just now I have seen one article in the Times, four five pages article, "Crime...," and what is that?



Brahmānanda: "Why and How to Solve It."



Prabhupāda: "Why and How to Solve It."



Brahmānanda: It's the cover story of Time.



Prabhupāda: So if you are serious, you can take our method and suggestions. Then you can stop this crime.



Royal Kennedy: You have a way to stop the crime?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I have.



Royal Kennedy: Can you explain a little bit more? How do you do it?



*Prabhupāda: That we have to suggest. The social, political, educational, cultural*-everything has to be changed. So if you come, we can give you in details how it can be done.



Royal Kennedy: Can you tell me how you feel about this welcome that you got?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Of course, by God's grace, wherever I go they welcome me like that.



Royal Kennedy: Are you used to anything a little bit more serene?



Prabhupāda: Serene? Of course, our whole propaganda is serene. Yes. We are distributing God consciousness. It is the most serene movement. People has to learn it very nicely.



Royal Kennedy: Thank you. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...to stop the crimes of your country. My message is to stop the crimes of your country. This is my sum and substance. We have read the article in the Times, "Crime and How to Stop It." So if you take my advice, that can be stopped. [break] (in car:) ...opportunity to propagate.



Brahmānanda: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Crimes and how to stop...



Brahmānanda: Why and how to stop it.



*Prabhupāda: Why and how to. That is answered in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, actually. [break] ...condition of the world, simply full of criminals, that's all. And our is pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari*-nāme uddhārilo. This is our movement. Crimes means pāpī, sinful. And this is the only remedy for reclaiming the sinful. Simply by law if you want to suppress them, it will not be successful. Deliver them. Then you also come, I mean to say, along with them. Not that these criminals only should be delivered, and you will go on, continue with criminal activities, slaughterhouse, and killing the child in the womb. You are criminal yourself, the whole state. So reception was very nice.



Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.



Prabhupāda: So we are going to the temple?



Śrī Govinda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: [break] ... New York? No. [break]



Brahmānanda: The city is bigger, but I don't think there's more people.



Prabhupāda: What is this, Dallas Braniff?



Brahmānanda: There's a..., that's advertising that this Braniff Airlines flies there to Dallas every hour on the hour.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, Dallas is nearer?



Śrī Govinda: Two hours.



Brahmānanda: Two hours.



Prabhupāda: Two hours. [break] Oh.



Brahmānanda: What was it?



*Śrī Govinda: Ninety*-two.



Brahmānanda: Really? [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...because śāstra says, pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari*-nāme uddhārilo. Simply by this chanting, all these things can be stopped. There is no doubt about it. They are spending so much money uselessly going to the moon planet and this planet and for stopping crime. The same amount may be spent for distribution of prasāda and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in a mass scale. Everything will be all right. Mass scale. Simply organize nice prasādam distribution and mass joining Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see the effect.



*Brahmānanda: There is proof of it just in Berkeley where we have our Ratha*-yātrā. The police say that this... Or we have our parades there, and they are all peaceful, whereas other groups, they have parades, and they always...



*Prabhupāda: "Window*-breaking."



Brahmānanda: Yes, violent.



*Prabhupāda: "Window*-breaking crowd." We are not that. [break] Let them have this O'Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Brahmānanda: Yes, O'Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Suggest the establishment manager.



Śrī Govinda: That's the name of the airport,



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Brahmānanda: He said the name of the airport is...



Prabhupāda: Oh. O'Hare? (pronouncing as in Hare Kṛṣṇa)



Brahmānanda: O'Hare. (laughs)



Prabhupāda: What is this? This is airport O'Hare?



Brahmānanda: O'Hare (pronouncing as "hair").



Prabhupāda: Hare (as "hair") it is.



Brahmānanda: O'Hare.



Prabhupāda: O'Hare.



Brahmānanda: I think that is an Irish name.



Prabhupāda: Who was he?



Brahmānanda: Who was O'Hare?



Prabhupāda: We chant O Hare.



Devotee (2): The woman whose cow knocked over the fire, started the fire, Chicago fire?



Devotee (3): That's O'Leary's cow. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...crime...



Brahmānanda: "Crime, Why and How to Solve It."



Prabhupāda: So we can solve this. Why not invite them to hear us how we can solve? Arrange meetings in big, big circle. We shall give the solution. It is a good opportunity for preaching. You have got Times paper?



Brahmānanda: Yes, Time magazine, it's the cover story this month.



Śrī Govinda: Not here. In five or ten minutes.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, bring. We shall take this opportunity to preach. "Crime, Why and What to Do?" We shall give all solution. We can arrange big, big meetings on this point, "Crime, Why and What to Do?" A very suitable heading it is. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Unless he'll take to God consciousness, all this rascaldom, so-called advancement of civilization, all condemned, everything. All rascals. So why we will not, will there be crime? There must be. This is the result of modern civilization, crime. You cannot check it unless you take to Kṛṣṇa cons... They are all violating the laws of nature. Nature brings you from evolutionary process to the human life, and if we misuse, then we suffer. This life is specially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the only business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā na yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Find out this verse.



Nitāi: First Canto, Second Chapter.



Prabhupāda: We have given all solution. Now our business is how to push it through these leaders who are now thinking, "Crime, Why and What to Do?" They are thinking. They must think. If they actually want welfare of the country, they must think. And here is the medicine. Yes?



Nitāi:



*kāmasya nendriya*-prītir

lābho jīveta yāvatā

*jīvasya tattva*-jijñāsā

nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ

[SB 1.2.10]



"Life's desires should never be aimed at gratifying the senses. One should desire to live only because human life enables one to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This should be the goal of all works."



*Prabhupāda: Kāmasya nendriya*-prītiḥ. Purport?



Nitāi: "The completely bewildered material civilization is wrongly directed towards the fulfillment of desires in sense gratification."



Prabhupāda: Simply wine, women and beach, and sporting and jumping like monkeys, this is the... We require little satisfaction of the bodily demands. That's all right. But not for this purpose. The bags have come?



Harikeśa: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Oh, then that's all right. There is oil.



Harikeśa: Upendra's getting ready for your massage.



Prabhupāda: Read it.



*Nitāi: "In such civilization, in all spheres of life, the ultimate end is sense gratification. In politics, social service, altruism, philanthropy and ultimately in religion or even in salvation, the very same tint of sense gratification is every*-increasingly predominant. In the political field the leaders of men fight with one another to fulfill their personal sense gratification."



Prabhupāda: In India, these are all foreseen. I have already discussed all this. Then?



*Nitāi: "The voters adore the so*-called leaders only when they promise sense gratification. As soon as the voters are dissatisfied in their own sense gratification, they dethrone the leaders. The leaders almost always disappoint the voters by not satisfying their senses."



*Prabhupāda: Then the protest meeting, procession. But nobody will be able to satisfy them because they do not know how to keep the mass of people satisfied. They do not know. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān cakre sātvata*-saṁhitām. These rascals, they do not know. All set of rascals, the so-called philosophers, scientists. I have always said they are rascals. Now they are coming, "What to do?" They will face so many problems, "What to do?" This is the beginning. The whole world will be in chaos if they do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So many "What to do?" will come. Just tell them, "And here is the remedy." Now it is the time for preaching. They are thinking. They were sleeping. Now they are thinking, "What to do?" They were blindly following sense gratification. Now it has come to the stage, "What to do?" "What to do?" This is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now enquire about Brahman." This is the statement. Hm, then?



Nitāi: "The same is applicable in all other fields; no one is serious about the problems of life. Even those who are on the path of salvation desire to become one with the Absolute Truth and desire to commit spiritual suicide for sense gratification."



Prabhupāda: That is also another sense gratification, to become one with the Supreme.



*Nitāi: "But the Bhāgavatam says that one should not live for sense gratification. One should satisfy the senses only insofar as it is required for self*-preservation..."



*Prabhupāda: We don't say that "Stop altogether." No. We say, "No illicit sex." We don't say, "No sex." So we should indulge in sense gratification as far as it is required for the maintenance of the body, and balance time, we shall save for brahma*-jijñāsā. This is civilization. Otherwise it is animal civilization. So that has come now. So the American people, the leaders, they are now thinking, "What to do?" And call big, big men, and give our program, "Here is to do. Come here to do." This is opportunity. Then?



Nitāi: "Because the body is made of senses, which also require a certain amount of satisfaction, there are regulative directions for satisfaction of such senses, but the senses are not meant for unrestricted enjoyment. For example, marriage..."



Prabhupāda: That is not enjoyment. Just like sex indulgence. If you indulge in more than necessary, then you will be impotent. Nature will stop. You know impotency? That will be there. Impotency. This homosex is also another sign of impotency. They do not feel sex impulse to woman. They feel sex impulse in man. That means he is impotent. It is impotency. So things are coming so rubbish now. This is the time for preaching our program, standard. Then?



Nitāi: "For example, marriage, or the combination of a man with a woman, is necessary for progeny, but it is not meant for sense enjoyment."



*Prabhupāda: Now this progeny is bother. It is sense enjoyment, homosex. Progeny, they don't want. They're not interested. Only sense gratification. This is another sign of impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex. This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much. Especially in the... Everywhere, not specially this or that. Everywhere. This is Kali*-yuga. But thoughtful leaders, they are thinking, "What to do?" That's very good sign. And take advantage and give them program exactly to the direction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then the world will be saved. Otherwise it is doomed. It is a fact. This is the opportunity for preaching. You can take that paper and heading. There are so many headings. Each heading reply. We are the only persons who can give solution. There is no other group or any man in the world. We are only. So let them take advantage of our knowledge and apply in the society to the ben... That's all right. Now all the sannyāsīs have got the good opportunity to preach. So where is the key? Keep it. (end)





750711AR.PHI

Arrival

-

Philadelphia, July 11, 1975



Woman Reporter: ...The point is that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has been what some people would consider sexist or racist because certain propensities for women and for blacks have been defined, either by the devotees or by the Vedic scriptures, I'm not sure which. And I wondered if you would comment on that.



Brahmānanda: It has been alleged that our movement is against women and against Negroes because we do not give them... What is it?



Woman Reporter: Well, not necessarily against them, but defining inferior roles for them by their natural traits.



Brahmānanda: Give inferior roles to women and to Negroes.



Prabhupāda: We give equal roles spiritually. Materially, one man is servant; one man is master. How you can avoid this? Do you think everyone will be master, nobody will be servant, materially? Materially, one is father, one is son, one is master, one is servant, one is man, one is woman. How can you stop this? But spiritually, they are all equal.



Woman Reporter: So then what is happening materially is unimportant?



Prabhupāda: Materially, there is distinction, but when you come to the spiritual platform, then, when you discern the spirit soul within everyone, that is equal. That is... Just like you are differently dressed in red shirt; I am differently... This dress, this difference, must be there. There are so many men and women. They are differently dressed. You cannot say they are all equal by the dress. But within the dress, the living entities, they are all the same. We make this distinction: material, not spiritual.



Male Reporter (2): I'd like to ask one question. The question would be: What is it that he has offered that has turned out such an emotional response today?



Brahmānanda: He wants to know what you have offered that has resulted in such a wonderful emotional response from all the people here.



Prabhupāda: Because they are being spiritually educated. We are above material platform; therefore we have no distinction that one is American, one is Indian, one is black, one is white. We have no such distinction. Everyone is servant of God. Is that all right?



Woman Reporter: I know you are very much aware of all the other gurus, especially that have been coming to the United States in the recent years, and I wondered if you could explain why it is that you believe that you have the truth rather than someone else.



Prabhupāda: Explain?



Brahmānanda: She wants to know that there are many other gurus, and why do you feel that you have the truth?



Prabhupāda: Because we speak the truth. We don't give bluff that "I am God. I am this. I am that." We don't give. We are... Actual position: God is great, and we are all servants. This is our actual position. How can I say, "I am God"? So we do not give bluff. We say the real truth; therefore it appeals. And if I say something humbug, it will not appeal. It may act for some time, but it will not endure.



Brahmānanda: Is there any other question?



Reporter (2): Your celebration is tomorrow: Of what will that celebration consist?



*Prabhupāda: Celebration? It is remembering Kṛṣṇa, or Lord. He, with His brother and sister, visited Kurukṣetra, a place in India. So in memory of that visit we observe this Ratha*-yātrā. [break] (in car:) ...is nice there.



Kīrtanānanda: Very nice. You're looking beautiful. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...delphia, and I think I came while going to New Vrindaban? No.



Kīrtanānanda: I don't think so.



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: That was Pittsburgh.



Prabhupāda: Pittsburgh, yes. I came Philadelphia in the beginning...



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: You were here in 1967, before there was a temple, '67 or '68.



Prabhupāda: No.



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: You spoke at Temple University. You came from New York.



Prabhupāda: Temple University, yes.



Driver: If you want any more air in the back, there's a control over there.



Prabhupāda: Where it is, Temple University?



Kīrtanānanda: It is here in Philadelphia.



Prabhupāda: And there is...? What is that?



Brahmānanda: You want more air?



Prabhupāda: Little more. That's it. Again it is closed.



Brahmānanda: You want it open?



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: You can turn on the air conditioner.



Prabhupāda: Oh, all right, air conditioner. Sky condition is better.



Kīrtanānanda: Too many gadgets.



Prabhupāda: So again the same question was raised. So reply was all right?



Brahmānanda: Yes. She was very nice.



Kīrtanānanda: What was the question?



Prabhupāda: That we have distinction between man and woman, black and white. Materially, there is distinction. You are differently dressed; I am differently dressed. But spiritually, there is no distinction. [break]



...sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



So a very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, and a dog. So materially, how they can be equal? If I say, "The President Ford and a dog is on the same level," then it will be very nice? Spiritually, we are one. That is real observation. Artificially, to make man and woman equal, that may be artificially your sentiment, but actually it is not the fact. [break] ...other university in Philadelphia?



Kīrtanānanda: Yes. The University of Pennsylvania.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. That... You also visited there in 1965.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Nineteen sixty*-five I came to see one professor, Dr. Norman Brown (?).



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: When I was at Temple, they told me that you had come. This was before I had ever heard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But they told me that you had come the year before I was there. I went there, and then the year before, you had been there. And so I took a course with this Swami Nikilananda. And you had spoken in his class, and they told me that you asked, "So you are studying Vedānta. So what is Vedānta?" And no one knew. No one knew what Vedānta meant. And you said that "Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. So Vedānta means the end of knowledge, and that is Kṛṣṇa." They had never heard that before, even though they'd had so many hours of courses in Vedānta.



Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty, that those who are foolish people, they are taking leading part. That is the defect of modern civilization. One who has no knowledge, he is taking the part of a teacher. So a hodgepodge, must be. He is speaking something hodgepodge. Just like this, one does not know what is Vedānta, and he is reading Vedānta. It is very simple truth. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. There must be something, ultimate, goal. But the modern process is that we go on unlimitedly, but never we come to the end. Is it not like that? What do you think?



Kīrtanānanda: Yes. It's a fact, no conclusion.



Prabhupāda: Freight(?) motorcar.



Brahmānanda: It is a graveyard, automobile graveyard.



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: This is the end of their knowledge. A pile of junk.



Kīrtanānanda: Building and breaking.



Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...spent up in breaking and building. That's all.



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: That means that there's passion and there's ignorance, but there's no goodness.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not enquire why breaking and building? Why not permanent? That question does not arise, and they cannot solve it. They think this breaking and building is the nature. But we are giving information of another nature, which there is no breaking, no building-permanent. They cannot believe it, that there is such thing. What is that? [break] ...carvita-carvaṇānām. That is chewing the chewed. They never question, "Why breaking and building? Why not permanent?" We are doing the same thing with our body. We are breaking. As soon as the body is old, we are breaking and accepting another body, again building. Again old, again breaking, again entering another... This is going on. But the question does not arise, "Why? I don't like this breaking and building, but why I am put into this condition?" That is intelligence. Who wants to die? No. Even a very old man*-he is suffering from so many things-still, if somebody comes, "Oh, I will kill you," he says, "Oh, no, no, no! Don't kill me. I don't want to die." Why? If somebody says that "You are old man. There is no use..." Now this is coming. The Communists, they are coming to that point, "This is an old man, simply eating. He is not doing anything. So finish him." What is called? Mercy...?



Brahmānanda: Mercy killing.



Prabhupāda: Mercy killing. It will be merciful if one is killed. So this is coming. But the point is that if you have come to show me the mercy of killing, but I am not prepared to be killed. Why? You have come to show me mercy, but I am not prepared to take your mercy. Why? What is the psychology?



Kīrtanānanda: No one wants to die.



*Prabhupāda: That is. So that means he is eternal. This death is artificial. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. He does not die. He is not killed. There is one verse that "If one thinks that 'I am killer,' and one thinks, 'I am killed,' both of them do not know what is life." In the Bhagavad*-gītā there is a verse. So I am eternal. That's a fact. Therefore I do not wish to be killed. But I do not know how to keep myself. That I do not know. We are giving that information, how you can keep yourself eternal. This is the greatest gift to the human society. He wants to live eternally, but he does not know how to live eternally. His energy is being spoiled by this skyscraper building construction. But he is not very serious to construct his body eternal. He will not be able to live in the skyscraper building. Maybe he will be allowed to live, to live there as a rat. There are rats, so many rats. Actually, this is the fact. The person who has got very attachment for that place but he is not to live there, but on account of attachment, thinking of that place at the time of death-but he is so sinful he cannot be given the human body-then he is given the cat's or the rat's body: "Live here." Or a tree or a plant. So where is the science discussing all this? Wherefrom the tree has come? They are satisfied only that "I have now a skyscraper building," but do not know that whether he will be allowed to live here. Vairāgya-vidyā. These things are being discussed in meeting, in our meeting anywhere. But they have no brain to understand.



Kīrtanānanda: And they don't want to hear.



Prabhupāda: No. Caraṇe sarve varṇe kaye (?). A thief, if you speak to him, "My dear Mr. Thief, it is not very good work. You will be arrested. You will be punished. Why you are taking this risk?" so will he give up stealing? He knows himself, "Yes, I will be arrested and punished, but still I shall do." This is ignorance.



Kīrtanānanda: How was the Chicago festival?



Prabhupāda: Yes, Chicago is nice city. It is river?



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: This is called the Schuylkill River, Schuylkill.



Prabhupāda: It is a river?



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: Yes. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...nice, constructed very nice cities.



*Ravindra*-svarūpa: This part of the city is a very large park. There's almost eight hundred acres of land that has been set aside. They are not allowed to construct there. It's the only place.



Prabhupāda: Just like in Hawaii. [break] ...New Vrindaban, how far it is?



Kīrtanānanda: From here? About three hundred miles.



Prabhupāda: Three hundred. Not much. [break] ...the husband and wife, they cannot live long together.



Kīrtanānanda: But we are developing very nice householder couples at New Vrindaban, very good families.



Prabhupāda: That is essential. Peaceful life of householders, that is required. (end)





750711A2.PHI

Arrival Lecture

-

Philadelphia, July 11, 1975



Prabhupāda: Where is Gurudāsa? I don't see him.



Jayatīrtha: He hasn't arrived yet from the airport.



Prabhupāda: When you have come?



Bhūgarbha: I have come about two and a half weeks ago.



*Prabhupāda: So thank you very much for your kind reception. The press reporters, they were asking me that we make distinction between man, woman, and black, white. We make distinction not in that way. We say that so long you are on the material platform, artificially, however you may try to keep everyone on the equal level, it will be failure. Just like the United Nation is trying to be united nationally, internationally for the last more than thirty years, but they have not been able to do so. In the Bhagavad*-gītā there is one verse,



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Paṇḍita means spiritually advanced. A person who is spiritually advanced, he sees on equal level a very learned man, vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa, the first-class man; *vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne gavi, an animal like cow; hasti, animal like elephant; *vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, śuni, means dog; *śva*-pāka, means the dog-eater; *caṇḍāla*-all of them, they see equal. So what is that seeing? If I invite one learned scholar, and if I ask him, "Please sit down with the dog," will he be pleased? He will feel insulted. But I see that within the dog, there is spirit soul, and within the learned scholar, there is spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama... Sama-darśinaḥ means from different platform. On the material platform, if I say, "Oh, you may be a learned scholar, and you may think the dog is dog, but I see you are all equal," so it will be insult. So the fact is that we cannot disturb the equality, er, different position materially; at the same time, we have to understand what is the position, spiritual. That is wanted. If we make distinction between man and woman, black and white, then how in our temple we are enjoying together? Because we... Actually, we are equal on the spiritual platform. We do not say that "You are woman. You cannot become my disciple," or "You are black; therefore you cannot become my disciple" No. We welcome everyone. So they may not misunderstand. Just you can issue one statement that "We say that if you want to see everyone equally, treat everyone equally, then you have to come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Materially, it is not possible."



*So in the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find different statement by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In one place He says that vidyā-vindaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini. In another place Kṛṣṇa says, strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya, varṇa-saṅkaraḥ abhibhavāte. No, strīṣu dustasu: "When woman becomes polluted, then there is unwanted population." So if in one place it is stated that paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18], man and woman is equal, or paṇḍita, or learned, dog and brāhmaṇa, in another place He says, strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya, so the fact is that, in order to make progress towards the end of spiritual realization, that we must make distinction, but the aim should be one. If you artificially do not make distinction, that will not stay. Just like in your country the black and white, they have got equal rights, but why they fight sometimes, racial fight? Because it is on the material platform. So our point is that you come to the spiritual platform, then this equality will be possible. If you keep yourself on the material platform, then artificially you may say, "We are equal," but at last we shall fight. This is our proposition. Therefore we request everyone that you come to the spiritual platform. Then everything will be very nice. There will be no distinction, because brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. When one is spiritually realized, then he becomes happy. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. There is no more lamentation. There is no more hankering. Just like one man is trying to become another man's position. That is hankering. So in spiritual platform there is no hankering, because he understands that spiritually we are one. So how that spiritually oneness can be made possible, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to solve all problems by this one stroke, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Practically, you can see. Here, while you are chanting, dancing, the boy is dancing, the father is dancing, the black is dancing, the white is dancing, the young is dancing, the old is dancing. You can see practically. The woman is dancing. A man is dancing. So dancing everyone. They are not artificially dancing like dog, but by spiritual ecstasy. That is the dancing platform. They are not dancing here for some monetary purpose. No. It is automatic, automatic, realizing God, in relationship with God. Even it is not realized... It is realized, but even if you say that they are not realized, but they are feeling ecstasy, that "We are all servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is wanted.

*So despite artificial distinction... Just like a man's body and a female's body, woman's body, the bodily structure is different. How you can say they are equal? No. When you see the external structure of the body of man and woman, there is difference. But despite this difference, when the man and woman think in connection with Kṛṣṇa, they are equal. That is wanted. Our proposition is that artificially you do not try to make equality. That will be failure. It is already failure. Now how you can...? Just like I have seen in London, woman police. So woman police, so I was joking with her, "If I capture your hand and snatch you, what you will do? You are policeman. (laughter) You will cry simply. So what is the use of your becoming policeman?" Policeman requires bodily strength. If there is some hooligan, you can give him one slap or catch him, but what the woman will do? So we say that be practical. Artificial equality will not endure. We are equal, undoubtedly, because we are all spirit souls. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara*-prā... [Bg. 2.13]. Asmin dehe, within this body, there is the spirit soul. That we have to understand first of all. And then, if we cultivate on that platform of spirit soul, then we shall feel equal and there will be no disturbance. Everyone will be peaceful. That is wanted. We are stressing that point, that artificially, if you say that "We are all equal," it will not act. But spiritually, when you understand equality, that will continue, and that will bring peace and happiness all over the human society.

Thank you very much. [break] If you have any question?

*[break] ...distinction is already there. That I explained today. But we are trying to go above the distinction. But when I say that distinction is already there, they misunderstand that I am making distinction. I am not making distinction. That already there. Why a woman is differently dressed and a man is differently dressed? Why the structure of the body, woman, is different from the man? Why there is no equal right-I was yesterday talking-that woman also become pregnant and man also become pregnant? (chuckles) That distinction is there by nature. But if you come to the spiritual platform, then you will understand that "I am not this body. These distinction are on the bodily platform. I am spirit soul. My function is how to serve God." Then it is equality. It is clear thing. But because they do not understand that there is distinction between spirit and matter*-they amalgamate or they have no brain that spirit is different from matter-therefore they think that I am making distinction. No. So we should understand the real position, and then automatically there will be equality, there will be no misunderstanding. Yes?

Devotee: What is the best way to deal with skepticism?



Prabhupāda: Skepticism, rascalism. (laughter) We are not going to deal with rascalism. We are going to deal with sense. Skepticism means they do not believe in anything. Everything is false. They are so disappointed, they think everything is false. We are not going to deal with such men. What is the use? Is not that skepticism? What is that skepticism?



Devotee: Disappointment.



*Prabhupāda: That's all. So why one should be disappointed? We say that "You come to the spiritual platform. You will be happy." We want to deliver him from the platform of disappointment. Sometimes one, being very disappointed, he commits suicide. But will anybody recommend that, that "You are so disappointed. Now you commit suicide"? Nobody will do so. So similarly, the skepticism is disappointed. We say, "Why you are disappointed? You come to the spiritual platform, and you will be happy." That is our version. So we are not going to accept his philosophy, skepticism, but we want to deliver him from this fallen condition. That is our mission. He is in false conception, that disappointment. Why? Our Vedic literature says, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). The living entity, the spirit soul, is by nature happy. There is no question of disappointment. You see Kṛṣṇa's picture anywhere, how they are happy. The gopīs are happy, the cowherd boys are happy, Kṛṣṇa is happy. Simply happiness. Where is disappointment? So you come to that platform. Then you will be also happy. You come to Kṛṣṇa. Dance with Kṛṣṇa. Eat with Kṛṣṇa. And that is information we are giving. Where is the question of disappointment? Come with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa therefore comes personally to show how He is happy in Vṛndāvana, and He is inviting, "Come to Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just come to Me. I shall give you all pleasure." But we are not going. So that is not Kṛṣṇa's fault or Kṛṣṇa's servant's fault. One who will not come to that platform, that is his fault. We are canvassing everywhere that "Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy. And see whether you are not..." Otherwise, if they are not happy, how the man, woman, the boy, the child, the father, the mother, the black and white, everyone is dancing. Why? This is the platform of happiness. So we are inviting, "Come to this platform. Why you should remain disappointed?" That is our mission. It is equally good for the skeptics, for the atheist, for the agnostic, for the theist, for everyone. Is that all right?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



Devotee: Thank you.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So? (end)





750715AR.SF

Arrival Lecture

-

San Francisco, July 15, 1975



Prabhupāda: ...that one who has got unflinching faith in God and similar faith in guru, yasya deve... (aside:) What is that sound? It cannot be stopped? Deve means Bhagavān. Devāya tasmai namaḥ.



*yam brahmā varuṇendra*-rudra... stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair

*vedaiḥ saṅga*-pada-krama upaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ

*dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ

...devaya tasmai namaḥ

[SB 12.13.1]



So deva means the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is praised by the Vedic mantra. Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva and all the demigods, they are offering their prayers. The Sāma Veda is singing in glorification of the Supreme Lord. The yogis, they are always seeing the Supreme Lord within the heart, core of heart. So that is deva. Devāya tasmai namaḥ. So yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. Anyone who has got unflinching faith in God... God means Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. So anyone who has got unflinching faith in God and similar faith in guru, then the Vedic purpose becomes revealed to him. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ. The Vedic mantras and their artha becomes revealed. This is the process.



*So these students, European, American students, they are offering respect to their spiritual master. Outsiders may think that the spiritual master is very puffed up, and he is sitting and taking respect from the disciple. But the fact is that they are to be taught like that, how to offer respect to the spiritual master. This is our Vedic process. Any sect or Vedic sect, the principle is ādau gurv-āśrayam: "The first principle is to accept guru." Unless there is guru, how it can be executed*-yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]? This is Vedic injunction. Other Vedic injunctions are like, the same. Kaṭha Upaniṣad says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "If you want to learn that transcendental science, then your first business is to go to a guru." Guru... As God is one, guru is also one. There cannot be different gurus. Nowadays it has become a fashion that "I have got my own guru. You have got your own guru." No. Guru means the representative of God. As God is one, similarly, guru is also one. There cannot be different gurus. Because God is one, how there can be different gurus? The principle of guru is one. (child crying) (aside:) Stop. The original guru is Kṛṣṇa. Yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ. Original guru, unto whom Brahmā, yaṁ brahmā varuṇa indra, all the demigods, offering their prayers. Within this universe Brahmā is considered to be the foremost living being, but is he also offering respect to Kṛṣṇa. Śiva-viriñci-nutam [SB 11.5.33]. Lord Śiva is also offering respect to Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vedic process.

*So Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes to teach these fallen souls. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. As guru's business is to protect the subordinate disciples from falldown... Just like I am traveling all over the world twice, thrice, in a year. My duty is to see that my disciples who have accepted me guru, they may not fall down. That is my anxiety. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa, being the original guru, He is also very anxious that "My sons..." We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7].

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*Kṛṣṇa is not Indian or Hindu. Kṛṣṇa is everything. Everyone is Kṛṣṇa's sons, in any form. Sarva*-yoniṣu. Yoni means species. There are 8,400,000 species. So all of them are living entities, and they are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is very much anxious to see His sons become very happy, just like father wants to see his son very happy. So Kṛṣṇa has admitted that He is bīja-pradaḥ pitā, He is the supreme father. I think in Christianity also God is accepted as supreme father. So actually that is the fact. God is the supreme father. So as the father wants to see his sons very happy, similarly, Kṛṣṇa wants to see all of us very happy. That is Kṛṣṇa. But we are persistently avoiding Kṛṣṇa and suffering. This is our business. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said,



yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glanir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*This... Just coming here from Philadelphia we were talking with the aeroplane crews, the captain, the pilot. They (were) very patiently hearing us. The question was very intelligent, question pilot made, that "If everything is created by God..." Yes. That is a fact. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedānta*-sūtra says everything is emanated from God. Without a thing being present in God, there cannot be any existence of anything. That's a fact. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. So his question was, "Then what is this evil?" The evil is also God's creation. So I explained like this, that for God there is no good or evil; everything is good. So I gave him this example that good, or piety, that is God's frontage, and evil means God's back side. So taking this example, the chest or the back of my body, they are equal. It is not that when there is some pain on the back side I don't care for it; I simply take care of when there is pain in the chest. No. Although it is back side, it is as important as the front side. Then evil and good is also of the same importance? No. Evil... That I gave the example, that for God there is nothing evil. I gave another example. Just like the sun, there is no darkness. Anywhere of sun's body, there is no darkness. But for us there is light and darkness. Just like if you keep the sun back side, you will find darkness, a very long darkness, your shadow. And if you keep yourself in front, sun, there is no darkness. So it is my business; *I create darkness. As soon as I change my position*-instead of remaining in front of God, I keep God back side-then there is darkness. Otherwise there is no question of darkness. But in the sun as it is, there is no such darkness. Therefore God is all good. And for us, when we forget God, that is evil. And when we are in God consciousness always, everything good. Is that example all right?



Devotees: Jaya!



Bahulāśva: Perfect.



*Prabhupāda: So God is all good. There is no good or evil. Apāpa-viddham. In the Īśopaniṣad you will find description, apāpa-viddham. Whatever God does, that is all good. But if we imitate God, then it is evil. That is the disease of material disease. Their other question was-the pilot was very intelligent man*-that "How one can become peaceful?" So I gave him the reply from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā it is said,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



(aside:) Your name is Śānti dāsa?



Śānti: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: So three things, if we understand, that everything belongs to God... Sarva*-loka-maheśvaram. He is the proprietor. And then, because He is the proprietor, therefore He is the enjoyer. Just like in a big establishment or a big family, who will be the enjoyer? The proprietor. So that is natural. If God is proprietor, then God is the supreme enjoyer. That is stated, that,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*If you learn these three things, that God is the proprietor, God is the enjoyer, and He is the real friend... Actually, He is the real friend. And our godlessness means we are claiming that we are proprietor: "This is my land. I am American. American is mine," or "India is mine." Or anything, say. Actually, the proprietor is God, but we are falsely claiming that "It is my property" or "our property." Therefore there is no śānti. Try to understand. Actually, God is proprietor, but we, out of our foolishness, we are claiming "our property" or "my property." Therefore there is no śānti. Similarly, God is the supreme enjoyer of everything. Yajña-tapasām. By performing yajña, by executing tapasya, one is elevated, gets some profit, material body, material profit. If you perform yajña, then you can go to the heavenly planet. Similarly, if you perform austerity, then you can be promoted to spiritual life. So... But what you will do by spiritual life? "By spiritual life" means if you become servant of God, then you will live and you will have peace. But if you want to become yourself God or master, then you will feel inconvenience, because that is not the fact. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheś..., suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. And God is the friend of everyone. Why not? He claims that "Everyone, every living entity-never mind in which form he is existing*-he is My son." So is not the father the best friend of the son? But no. We are claiming, "I shall become your friend. I shall become your leader. I shall lead you to prosperity." No. That is false. The political leaders or the so-called religious leaders or other many leaders there are. They are taking the position of God, that "I shall become your friend. I shall lead you so that you will become happy." That is wrong. You cannot become friend. To how many people or how many men you can become friend? One, two, three, four, five, thousand, ten thousand, million? But there are unlimited, asāṅkhyā. Jīva bhāva sa..., asāṅkhyā. You cannot count how many. Suppose you can become friend of your children at home or your friend's wife, sons and others. But how you can become friends the elephant in the African jungle? You cannot become. But you will see. There are hundreds and thousands of elephants in the jungle of Africa. They are eating, sleeping, very nicely. Who is supplying their necessities? God is supplying. You will find in your room in a hole that thousands of ants are coming out. Are you giving them food? Who is supplying food?



*So therefore God is actually the friend of everybody. That is a fact. But we rascals, we are claiming, "I shall be your friend. I shall be your leader." Therefore the leader, so*-called leader, is not in peace. How it can be? All leaders are trying to keep his position some way or other, and that is very difficult job, no peace. That is not possible. You know. Your president, Mr. Nixon, wanted to keep himself in the position. How much restless he was. These are to be studied, that don't claim yourself as friend of somebody or the people or the nation. No. Teach them that "God is your friend. I am God's servant. I am bringing this message to you. And I can teach you how God can become your friend and you derive friendship result from God." That is guru. A guru does not say, "I am God." That is not guru. Guru will never say. The Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's prayer says,

*sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair

uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya... **



*A guru is worshiped... Just like my disciples. They are offering respect exactly like God. That is their duty. Sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ: "All the śāstra recommends that guru should be respected as good as God." But that does not mean guru is foolishly thinking, "I am God." Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **. Uktaḥ means "said," "it is recommended." Tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ: "Those who are exalted, advanced, they accept this truth, that guru should be respected as good as God." But why he is respected as such? Because kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "Because he is very, very dear to God." The guru will never think that "My disciples are worshiping me exactly like God; therefore I have become God." He is not guru, he is rascal. Guru is always in the position of servant. And because he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa, therefore he is to be respected as good as Kṛṣṇa. Because in our present position we cannot see Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa sends His representative; *therefore he is respected as Kṛṣṇa. Now, how one can become guru and representative of Kṛṣṇa? Everyone will say, "I am a representative of Kṛṣṇa. I am guru." No. That is enunciated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "You just become guru on My order." So guru means who is carrying out the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, not a self*-made guru. Guru means the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa or Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same thing. He is guru.



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is ordering everyone, especially those who are born in India. He says especially,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Anyone who has taken birth in India, Bhāratavarṣa*-bhumi... Formerly, Bhāratavarṣa means the whole planet. Now it has come, India. Never mind. So "Anyone who has taken birth in India, Bhāratavarṣa, let him make his life successful," and kara para-upakāra, "and go outside India and do good to others." Para-upakāra. This is India's business. India's business is to distribute the spiritual knowledge all over the world because they are in darkness. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari: [Cc. Ādi 9.41] "First of all you become successful." Because in India you will find Vedas, Upaniṣads, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, and Vedānta-sūtra, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, so many other things, all Vedic literature. So if Indians, those who are actually prestigious... They should learn from guru all these literatures, make his life successful. Then go outside and preach. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. Then if anyone says that "I have no knowledge. I have no education. How I can learn all these books and become, make my life perfect, and then I preach?" so Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that you haven't got to learn so many books. He says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "You just become guru on My order." "Then what is your order, Sir?" Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. This is guru. You haven't got to learn very much. You simply repeat like parrot what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. Is it very difficult? Kṛṣṇa has said everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. You learn Bhagavad-gītā, and you repeat that. You become guru. This is guru.



*So sometimes people give me very much credit that I have done wonderful throughout the whole world. But I do not know that I am wonderful man. But I know one thing, that I am speaking what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. That's all. I am not making any addition, alteration. Therefore I am presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. This credit I can take, that I don't making any nonsense addition or alteration. And I see practically it has become successful. I have not bribed so many Europeans and Americans. I am poor Indian. I came to America with forty rupees with me, and now I possess forty crores. So there is no magic. (quietly to one devotee:) (aside:) You can go back side. You are sleeping. So this is the secret, that if you want to become guru honestly... If you want to cheat, that is another thing. There are so many cheaters. People also want to be cheated. As soon as we say that "If you want to become my disciple, you will have to give up four things: no illicit sex, no intoxication up to drinking tea and smoking cigarette, no meat-eating and no gambling," and they criticize me, "Swamijī is very conservative." And if I say that "You can do all nonsense, whatever you like. You simply take this mantra and give me $125," they will like. Because in America, $125 is nothing. Any man can pay immediately. So I would have collected millions of dollars if I would have cheated like that. But I do not want that. I want one student who follows my instruction. I don't want millions. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tara-sahasrasaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for illumination. There is no need of millions of stars. So my position is that I want to see that at least one disciple has become pure devotee. Of course, I have got many sincere and pure devotees. That is my good luck. But I would have been satisfied if I could find out one only. There is no need of so-called millions of stars.

*So therefore the process is there, and it is very simple, and if we understand the all instruction in the Bhagavad*-gītā and then we study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Or even if you don't study, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given very simple method. That is also recommended in the śāstra:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*If we want to study Vedic literature, that is very good. That is sound footing. So we have already got fifty books. You study. Become very great scholar in philosophy, in religion, is sociology. Everything is there in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, politics also. And you become perfect man, with full knowledge. And if you think that you have no time, you are not so good scholar, you cannot read all these books, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either way you will become perfect, either both or at least one. If you cannot read books, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You will (become) perfect. And if you read books and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is very good. But there is no loss. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra but you cannot read books, there is no harm. There is no loss. That chanting is sufficient. But if you read, then you will be able to defend yourself from the opposing parties. That will help you preaching work. Because in the preaching work you have to answer so many question, you have to meet so many opposing elements, so if you are strong in your position by reading books, Vedic literature, then you become very, very favorite to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says,



na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu

*kaścit me priya*-kṛttamaḥ

ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

*mad*-bhakteṣu abhidhāsyati



*Anyone who preaches this confidential knowledge, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], if he is ably fit to preach this message to the world, then immediately he becomes very, very much recognized by the Supreme Lord. Na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu kaścit me priya-kṛttamaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says.



*So I am especially requesting those who are Indians and those who have now learned Bhagavad*-gītā, they should preach this message all over the world. There is good potency. That already we have tested. But don't make adulteration. Then it will be spoiled. You speak Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it will be effective. Why it will not be effective? Because the Lord's word and the Lord Himself absolute. There is no difference.

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya*-mukto

*abhinnatvāt nāma*-nāminoḥ



*Abhinnatvāt. The Lord's name and the Lord, they are not different*-absolute. That is Lord's potency, acintya-śakti. He can present Himself by His name, by His fame, by His form, by His qualities, by His paraphernalia. Anything in connection with Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Anything. That is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is never different from His name. Kṛṣṇa is never different from His form. We are worshiping the form of the Lord. That is Lord Himself. Don't think it is different from Lord. No. We are not wasting time by worshiping some statue. No. It is therefore forbidden in the śāstra, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīḥ guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhir. These are forbidden. So we are, of course, opening so many branches all over the world, and I am very pleased to see this branch. There is wonderful prospective. Utilize it properly and stick to the principle that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. The ājñā, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and ājñā, our Kṛṣṇa, not different. Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, and when He appeared as Kṛṣṇa, people misunderstood Him; therefore He has come as a devotee to teach us how to love Kṛṣṇa. So therefore, if we go through Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, chanting



*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



and then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, so rest assured the full perfection is awaiting you.



Thank you very much. (end)



750811AR.PAR



Arrival Address

-

Paris, August 11, 1975



(devotee translates into French throughout)



*Prabhupāda: (leads chanting of Jaya Rādhā*-Mādhava.) So I am very much pleased to come to this village of France. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prediction that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma.... Grāma means village. Sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma. Everywhere the glories of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu will be spread. So by His grace, we are doing that in America, in Europe, Africa, Australia. Village to village, town to town we are preaching the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*So why we are preaching? What is the necessity of preaching? The necessity is to make them happy. If we follow the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, then our life will be successful and we will be happy. And the process is very simple: chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no very hard and fast rule for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In any position, in any place, in any circumstance, you can very easily chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. Even small children, they also take part, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance with the elderly father and mother. So there is very good potency if we simply chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. The potency is, the first benefit is, that our dirty heart becomes cleansed. We have accumulated many dirty things within the heart on account of bad association. The first dirty thing is to accept this body as self. This conception, bodily concept of life, is existing amongst the animals. It is existing amongst the animals that "I am this body." So actually, I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I am embodied within this body, material body. This is the fact. If we simply become aware of this fact that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I am living within this body," then immediately we become liberated from this material world simply by this understanding. And this can be understood by any sane man without any study of philosophy, simply by common sense. The simple philosophy is that the child is now possessing a small body, then he will possess a big body, then another big body. In this way the child is there, the body is changing, that's a fact. And the body changes so long the soul is there. Therefore, the conclusion should be the body and the soul, they are different. It is very simple truth, but because we have accumulated so much garbage dirty things within our heart, we cannot understand even this simple thing. We are advancing education in civilization and so many big, big words, but we are so dull that we cannot understand this simple thing. And to understand this simple thing is the beginning of life. Otherwise, without understanding this simple thing, to exist is just like the cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they have no such thing as nationalism, this ism, that ism. They simply eat, sleep, have sex, and defend.



*So this understanding is the first understanding for spiritual life, that "I am not this body." That is the beginning of spiritual life. And when we nicely understand this fact, that is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ, or self-realization stage. So what is the difference between self-realized stage and doggish stage means bodily concept of life. The difference is that as soon as you become self-realized, you become jolly. This self-realization is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā,



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*This self*-realization means as soon as we understand that you or I am not this body, I am spirit soul, then immediately we become jolly. And what is jolliness? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. A jolly person never lament nor desire. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has no want and he has no loss. Material life means always want and always loss. And spiritual life means no loss, no desire, no hankering. So one can distinguish his spiritual life and material life by simple formula. This simple formula: material life means always in want and always in lamentation. And spiritual life means no hankering and no lamentation. When one is fixed up in spiritual life, it is said guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate [Bg. 6.20-23]. When there is very, very acute reverse condition of life, one is not disturbed. That is spiritual life. And samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, at that stage only there is possibility of so-called unity, fraternity, friendship. Your France, you have got slogan, what is that? Fraternity, friend... No eternity. Equality, fraternity, and what other thing?



Devotees: Liberty.



Prabhupāda: Yes, go on. So France is very cultured country historically, but where is fraternity? The history will read there was seven years war with England, hundred years war with England. Then Napoleon, he conquered, so all the parts, where is fraternity, eternity? Last time when I came in your country in Paris, somebody showed me one church, that from that church there was ringing of the bell, and immediately people would come and kill the Protestants or something like that. Is it not a fact?



*So anyway, on the material platform, there is no possibility of equality, fraternity, or nothing. It is not possible. Unless you come to the spiritual platform, brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], there is no question of equality, fraternity. So in the United Nation, they are trying for that unity, united nation, but where is unity? Every year there is a new flag. There is no question of fraternity or equality. Just like in animal life, there is no question of fraternity or equality. Similarly, if we keep ourself in the bodily concept of life, that is animal life. So long we keep ourself as :I am French man," "I am German man," "I am English man," "I am Indian man," or so many there are nationalities, there cannot be any fraternity, equality. We have come to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or brahma-bhūtaḥ, then there will be fraternity, equality. And factually you can see in this movement all classes of men, all nationality, all religion, all color, they are coming together and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing. This is wanted. So don't be misled by the leaders of so-called eternity and fraternity. It is not possible. That are called andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31], just like a blind man is trying to lead other blind men. So come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this fraternity and equality, also eternity. Eternity means that we living entities, we are eternal, we never die or never take birth. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have got French edition of Bhagavad-gītā, you will find there. Have you got that book here? No. You will find in that book, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You will find this verse that we living entities, we have no birth and no death. Na jāyate. You can read that verse in French. In the Second Chapter you will find. (devotee reads Sanskrit verse and translation in French) Purport is there? Go on. (laughter) Do serious, don't laugh. (devotee reads purport in French)



*So if we simply understand one verse. There are seven thousand verse? No. Seven hundred, yes. Seven hundred verses. If we simply understand one verse only, as we have explained, then immediately we become brahma*-bhūtaḥ, liberated. And that is the perfection of human form of life. A dog cannot understand. If I say to the dog that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul, you are eternal," he has no power to understand. And a human being can understand. He has got the capacity. So we are trying to educate all people, all nations of the world to understand this one verse, that's all. Na jāyate vā mriyate vā kadācit. If he simply understands this one verse, he immediately becomes liberated. And actually, human life is meant for understanding this philosophy or this truth. Then his life is successful. And as soon as we understand that we are eternal, we are not mortal, then naturally our inquiry will be, "Where we can live eternally?" That will be the inquiry. In the material world as you are forced to take birth and death, so similarly in the spiritual world, the first advantage is there is no birth and death, just the opposite. So our process is to train people how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the only education required in this human life.



*So now by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this movement has come to your country, and especially in a nice village like this, utilize it properly. It is a very ideal place. Not only this, there are many thousands of places like this. People should take advantage to live in such nice place, produce their necessities of life, and keep them fit and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize self. We don't say that you starve or become weak in health or weak in intelligence. No. You remain quite fit in intelligence and health, but don't be unnecessarily in need. The difficulty of the modern educated person is... Not educated, but so*-called educated, they are attracted in the city for so many things unnecessary. Just like the club, the restaurant, the liquor and the cigarette, so many things. But if your attention is diverted to Kṛṣṇa, you will not feel inclined to enjoy all these unnecessary things. That is the test of spiritual life, that bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. Bhakti, advancement of devotional life, means no more taste for all these nonsense. That is the test.



*So you will see practically these boys and girls, they are young men, young girls, they have got so many desires, but they have given up, and they are able to continue like that because they are making progress in spiritual life. So read our books, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, live very simple life, produce your own necessities. Don't go to the town. Of course, for selling books we can go. (laughter) Our policy is not that to decry material advancement of civilization, but our instruction is that do not forget your real business, self*-realization. Unfortunately, material attraction is so strong that it makes us forgetting our spiritual necessities of life. So this human form of life is given by nature for fulfilling our spiritual necessities. But if we neglect, then... Read this verse from Bhagavad-gītā. Who will read? Where he has gone, Yogeśvara? Yes, read that. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Find out this verse and read it. Eighth Chapter, I think. (Yogeśvara reads Bg. 8.6 in French)



So in the Western countries, they are very much fond of keeping best friend, the dog. So at the time of death if you think of your favorite dog, then in next life you become dog. But you cannot surpass the nature's law. This is the nature's law. So one gentleman, what is his name? Fisher? In Detroit, he had two dogs, and he buried them in silver casket. He was very rich man and his house is very big palace. But at the time of death, if he was thinking of this dog, and if he becomes dog next, then what is the value of this material advancement? Therefore, intelligent man shall always think of Kṛṣṇa so that at the time of..., if he is able to think of Kṛṣṇa, his life is successful. So instead of loving dog if you love God, Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. I think this one. Thank you very much. (end)





751001AR.MAU

Arrival Address

-

Mauritius, October 1, 1975



*Prabhupāda: ...jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is little different from... Why little? Completely different from ordinary movement. This is spiritual movement. This movement begins when one understands that he is not this body. [break] We are under the bodily concept of life. Ninety-nine percent people think that one is this material body. But that is not the fact. The fact is that within this body there is the spirit soul. The example is given in the Bhagavad-gītā that because the spirit soul is there within the body, therefore the body is changing from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, then middle-aged, then old man. This body is changing. But if the child is born dead*-that means without the soul-then the body does not change. We have got practical experience. A dead child, if you keep the body in a preservative way, it will not grow. So long the soul is there, the bodily changes are there. From the womb of the mother, the embryo, the child, grows daily. Why? Because the soul is there. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to understand this fact first of all, that body is superficial. Just like you are dressed with your shirt and coat. The shirt and coat is not important, but the person who is putting on the shirt and coat, he is important. Unfortunately, modern education is giving stress on the outward, external body or to the dress and not to... They do not understand who is the person who is dressed or who has got this body. This is the first lesson of spiritual understanding. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find, this is the first instruction:



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



The whole world is under the bodily concept of life, even big, big nations. Just like your prime minister has gone to the United Nations. There are many big, big men in the United Nations. They will speak, and they are speaking for the last thirty years. The United Nations is formed, but they could not find any solution of the problems of life because the basic principle they are losing; they do not know. Every one of them is thinking on the bodily platform: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," and "I am Englishman," like that. Therefore there is no solution because the basic principle is wrong. Unless we understand what is the wrong on the active principle of the body, the problems cannot be solved, just like if you cannot diagnose the disease, simply by symptomatic treatment you cannot make the man healthy. That is not possible.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not on the bodily concept of life. It is the movement on the basic principle of the soul*-what is the soul, what is the soul's necessity, how the soul will be peaceful, happy. Then everything will be all right. The same example, that if you are healthy, it doesn't matter what kind of dress you are putting on; you will feel happy. But if you are diseased and if your dress is very nice, that will not give you any happiness. Because you have got a very nice dress and you are diseased, suffering from some pains, the dress will not give you happiness. You must be healthy. Then it doesn't matter, whatever dress you are putting on. Any circumstances, you will feel happiness. This is the basic principle of our movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand whether you are this body or something beyond this body. This is to be understood. Anyone who is thoughtful, he can understand by little thinking that if you study your body, you will never say that "I body." You will say, "My body." You study your finger; you will say, "It is my finger." You will never say, "I finger." "My head, my hand." Then who is that "my" or "I"? That is the subject matter of thinking. If we do not find out what is that "I..." On the basis of "I," I am thinking "I am my body, my head, my leg." But it is a fact. If you think little, you will find that you are not this body. You are different from this body. And as soon as we understand that "I am different from this body," then the business will be "How I shall be happy?" not "How my dress will be nice?"

*So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement. We are inviting all intelligent persons, the leaders of the society, to understand the basic principle of this movement. And if the leaders of the society lead the people in the proper channel on the basic principle of spiritual life, then everything will be solved. Everyone will be happy. These instructions are there in the Bhagavad*-gītā very elaborately. Simply we have to follow the instruction. It is not at all difficult. Then all the questions-social problem, political problem, economical problem, religious problem-everything will be nicely solved. We are presenting, therefore, Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And you take any question and the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, very nicely given. Just like, say, our first problem is economic problem. So Bhagavad-gītā says, "Yes. Economic problem will be solved very easily if you produce food grains." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. You produce food grain. Just like in your country I see there is enough land. If you people produce your food grain, within three months you can get all the necessities of life for the whole year. And the balance time you can save, nine months. And these nine months you can utilize for advancing in spiritual life, because your life or my life, this human form of life, it is distinct from the cats' and dogs' life. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is the basic principle of life. But a human being can understand. If he takes little care, he can understand that his problem of life is due to misunderstanding, accepting this body as self. This is the problem.

*So we shall advise according to Bhagavad*-gītā that "Make your life very simple, plain living, but the thinking should be very high." Plain living and high thinking. So thinking is that "I am the soul. I am not this body. I am eternal. I am changing only body. And due to change of body I am suffering." For this reason, the śāstra says,

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat tīrtha*-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*If anyone is living on the bodily concept of life, ātma*-buddhiḥ tri-dhātuke... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ śarīre, tri-dhātu, kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body is a bag. Actually it is a bag. So long the soul is there, it is useful. As soon as the soul is not there, it is nothing but a bag of skin and bones. That's all. Everyone knows it. It is thrown away. It has no value. So actually it is a material bag made of this blood, skin, nails, bones, urine, stool. This is the ingredient of this body. If you think that this body is self, then you can create with this ingredient another soul. If you analyze this body, what is the ingredient? You will some blood, some veins, some bones, some skin, and some urine, some stool and some secretion. So they are available. So why don't you take all these ingredients and create another soul? They are available anywhere. But that is not possible. The big, big chemist, big, big scientists, they are trying to create living entities. Their theory is: "By chemical evolution there is living symptoms." But it is not possible. The soul is different from these material elements. Soul is different from the material elements. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find the... First of all, material elements, they have been described, Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jaga.... Jīva-bhūta [Bg. 7.5], the living entity, is completely different from this matter.



*So unless we understand this philosophy... It is not philosophy. Philosophy you can call, because the philosophy means the science of sciences. Philosophy is not a mental speculation. Philosophy is the prime science from which all other sciences are derived. That is philosophy. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on this science of sciences to understand first of all that "What you are? Are you this body or different from this body?" This is essential. And if you go on constructing your big building on a defective foundation, then it will not stay. There will be danger. So modern civilization is based on this defective idea that "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian"*-these are all bodily concept of life. "Because I have got this body from a Christian father and mother, therefore I am a Christian." But I am not this body. "Because I have got this body from a Hindu father and mother, therefore I am Hindu." But I am not this body. So for spiritual understanding, this is the basic principle to understand, that "I am not this body; I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is the Vedic instruction: "Try to understand that you are spirit soul; *you are not this body." The yoga system is practiced just to understand this. Yoga indriya saṁyamaḥ. By controlling the senses, especially the mind... Mind is the master or the chief of the senses. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. We are undergoing a struggle for existence with this mind and the senses under the false conception of identifying this body as self. So if we concentrate our mind by controlling the senses, then we can gradually understand. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. The yogis, they meditate upon the Supreme Person, Viṣṇu, and by that process they realize the self. Self-realization is the prime object of human life. So the beginning of self-realization is to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

*So these things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. If we simply read Bhagavad-gītā carefully, under proper guidance, then everything will be clear, without any difficulty, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. My business is different than this bodily concept of life. I shall never be happy taking, accepting this body as self. That is a wrong foundation of knowledge." In this way, if we make progress, then we shall understand, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." Then wherefrom I have come? Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, that the spirit soul, Kṛṣṇa says, the Lord says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "These living entities, they are My part and parcel, fragment, or minute sparks." As the big fire and the small fire, both of them are fire, but big fire and small fire... So far the fire quality is concerned, God and we are the same. So we can understand, we can study God by studying ourselves. That is another meditation. But it will be perfect when we understand that "Although qualitatively I am a sample of God or the same quality, but still, He is the great, I am the small." That is perfect understanding. Anu, vibhu; Brahman, Parabrahman; *īśvara, parameśvara*-this is perfect understanding. Because I am qualitatively one, it does not mean that I am the Supreme. In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We are nitya, eternal; God is also eternal. We are living being; God is also a living being. But He is the chief living being; *He is the chief eternal. We are also eternal, but we are not chief. Why? Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Just like we require a leader, similarly, He is the supreme leader. He is maintainer. He is providence. He is providing everyone's necessities. We can see that there are elephants in Africa. Who is providing them food? There are millions of ants within the hole of your room. Who is feeding them? Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kaman. So in this way, if we realize ourself, that is self*-realization.

And then the next question will be, "Then what is our function?" When we understand our relationship with God, that is called sambandha. And if the sambandha, if the relationship is established, understood properly... Just like in Christian religion they go to the church. Or every religion, generally, people go to temple, church, mosque, to pray, to offer prayer to the Supreme, and generally we ask for our necessities of life because eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: He is supplying the necessities. But in higher standard, He is already supplying the necessities, but then why shall I bother Him for supplying the necessities? He is already supplying without asking. The ants and the elephants, they do not go to the church for asking God, "Oh, give us our daily bread," but still, they are getting. Then the next question is that "What is our duty?" Our duty is to feel obliged to God and try to serve Him. That is our duty. Just like a child, when he is unable to move or to work, the parents, the father, supplies everything. But when the child is grown up, if he thinks as a young man that "Father has given us so much service. Now we shall give service," oh, that is perfection. That is wanted. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. At the present moment we are taking so much supplies from God, but we are not eager to serve Him. This is our position. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is supplying us everything. We require light; there is the sunlight. We require water; *there are oceans of water. Who has created this? We require these things, and God has created. He has given us enough. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. Everything is complete. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything is completely arranged by the Supreme Lord. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. So we should be cognizant how we are benefited by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and what is our duty. Our duty is to serve God. That is our duty. Hṛṣīkeṇa*-hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. We are taking so much service, already taken. Now, when we are grown up as human being, then we should serve God. This is the instruction we get from Bhagavad-gītā, how Arjuna in the beginning was declining to serve Kṛṣṇa on consideration of his bodily attachment, but at the end he decided, "No, it is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa, not to serve my senses." And that is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Similarly, when we actually become self-realized and agree to serve the Supreme Lord... The another point is that Lord is perfect. He doesn't require our service, but if we are engaged in His service, that is our healthy condition. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Now I am asking this finger, "Keep like this. Move like this." This is healthy condition of the finger. But if I want to take service from the finger in some way but if the finger cannot serve me, this means unhealthy condition. Similarly, when we do not serve God, that is our unhealthy condition. That is material condition. Therefore... There was a big meeting in Naimiṣāraṇya. All the great learned sages and brāhmaṇas were present, and the resolution was passed,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*This is perfection of life. If you want perfection of life, then try to satisfy God, Kṛṣṇa. Saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13].



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this conclusion of the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if you want perfection of life, then try to satisfy the Supreme Lord. This is the conclusion. So about this, you can make some question if you like. If there is any question, you can ask. Let them ask.

Cyavana: Someone must have a question. Everything is clear?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: You explained that the active force is the spirit soul, and this is what is causing the body to move about, to eat, develop. If this is the active force, then at what stage are the activities of the soul realized as distinct from the activities of the body?



Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not very difficult. When the soul is gone, there is no activity of the body. Where is the difficulty to understand? So long the soul is there within the body, body is acting. As soon as the soul is out, it is not acting. It is very easy to understand. Is there any difficulty to understand? Why the body was moving one moment before, acting very nicely, but as soon as the soul is gone, it is dead body? That's all. Finished. It is lump of matter. What is the difficulty?



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: Does the self-realized soul experience the actions...?



Prabhupāda: Anyone can experience. The body is active so long the soul is there. It doesn't require much intelligence. Simply one can understand what is the difference between the dead body and the living body. Living body means there is the soul, and dead body means there is no more soul. Father dies; the son is crying, "Oh, my father has gone." "Oh, where your father has gone? He is lying on the bed. Don't you see?" "No, no, he is gone. He is now..." So that means I never saw my father, I saw his body only. Now I realize, "My father has gone." That is my ignorance. I do not know who is my father; I do not know who is my son. But on this false understanding we are going on. When the father dies or the son dies, we cry, "Oh, my son is gone," "My father is gone." "And where is your father gone? He is lying on the bed." "No, no, he is gone." And then we realize. It is very difficult to understand? Simple thing.



Indian man: When the body dies, the body is finished, but what about the soul? The soul, about the soul?



*Prabhupāda: Soul enters another body. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. That is the misunderstanding of the modern civilization. They do not know that soul is eternal, it is changing body, different bodies, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. According to his desire, he is entering another body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. As he is associating or he is being infected by the different modes of material nature, he is getting, next life, another body. [break] ...big king or big minister or the body of an ant, as soon as you accept this material body it is suffering is there. So if you want to be happy, then this is the opportunity. This human form of body is the opportunity. Don't waste this human form of body like cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand that he is not this body, he is spirit soul, but a human being can understand. There is so, so many books of knowledge, and so many self-realized persons. So if anyone wants to understand what he is, he can understand in the human form of body. So if we take this opportunity, then we make the solution: no more accepting body.



janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



The solution is there. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then you will have not to accept any more material body. Simple thing. What is your question? Is it answered? Yes. [break] ...Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to enlighten people. It doesn't matter what is his nationality, what is his religion. Simply you try to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa; then your life is successful. Don't waste time. Don't waste your life, valuable life. Try to understand God. Then your life is success. Any other question? Huh? What is that? Finish? All right. Then you will have kīrtana? No. Have. (end)





760322AR.CAL

Arrival Talk

-

Calcutta, March 22, 1976



*Prabhupāda: So I must first of all thank you for decorating Rādhā-Mādhava so nicely. So we are coming from Māyāpura, from the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is combination of Rādhā-Mādhava. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that in every town, every village of this globe, this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be preached. And it was given to the Indians: bhārata bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila jāra. It was the duty of the Indians. But in one sense, Bhāratavarṣa means this planet. Formerly there was one flag, Bhāratavarṣa, and the capital was Hastināpura. Gradually the control of the Pāṇḍavas declined. Up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the whole world was Bhāratavarṣa. Now it has become a tiny land, peninsula. So in that sense, anyone who is, who has taken birth on this planet, it is the duty of him to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you European boys and girls, you have taken very seriously, and Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased upon you. Unfortunately, Bhāratavarṣī is not interested. Here we see side by side the two wings of this house. The one room is interested in making money, and one room is interested in spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this is the position. We are... Indians, we are neglecting this movement. That is not very good. Recently I had the chance to travel in the villages of Bengal. Oh, it is so pitiable, full of... They have given up this culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have not profited. They have not profited. But unfortunately the leaders, they think that by development of industries they'll be able... No. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. If you become godless, then you have no good qualification. Everything is finished. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. These rascals, godless people, they will simply manufacture plan. Manorathena: by mental concoction. "Now this, we have made this plan. It will be very nice." But no. That is not possible.



daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti (te)

[Bg. 7.14]



Māyā is so strong that it will break, dismantle everything into pieces, your plan.



So anyway, Calcutta is my birth place, so you have kindly come here and conducting this temple. I am very much obliged to you. I cannot remain here. I have to go here and there. Try to raise the standard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even there are so many inconveniences. I know. You are coming from a country where material conveniences are greater. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



So some of you, you have come with your big, big buses and vans to preach in India. You take Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings and try to enlighten these people. The people are already... Bhāratavarṣī, the inhabitants of Bhāratavarṣa, naturally they are inclined. Just like in the villages, when we were passing, the boys and children, they were also dancing. That is natural. Some way or other, this India is in a very precarious condition. So you have come, taking so much trouble. And take little trouble. There is no trouble. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu there will be no trouble. You'll be happy. Try to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in India at least for some time, and help them to rise to their standard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)





760419AR.MEL

Arrival Lecture

-

Melbourne, April 19, 1976



Prabhupāda:



*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



Now the time is too late. I wish to take my bath. I'll not speak very much now. When the time is fixed up for...?



Devotee (1): Evening.



Prabhupāda: Evening.



Gurukṛpa: Seven.



*Prabhupāda: At that time we shall speak, but this much I must express, my obligation that you are worshiping the Deity so nicely. That is my great happiness, and that is your happiness also. The more gloriously you worship the Deity, decorate the Deity as gorgeously as possible, the more gorgeous you will be. That is the secret. The materialistic, they are trying to dress themselves very gorgeously, and gradually their dress is being taken away by māyā, and voluntarily they are becoming hippies. Because they did not try to dress Kṛṣṇa, therefore māyā is taking their dresses. So the secret of success is that if you give nice... Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Simply you have to collect them and offer for the pleasure of Kṛṣṇa. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi tapasyasi yat yad aśnāsi, kuruṣva tad mad*-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. This is the secret of success, that whatever you do... It doesn't matter what you are doing. You are businessman, you are a lawyer, you are engineer or... Something must be done for earning one's livelihood. That is a fact. Without karma, without working, you cannot keep your body and soul together. That's a fact. So in the human form of life the motto should be that "Whatever I do, whatever I earn, it must be given to Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi tapasyasi yat... [Bg. 9.27]. Everyone is doing something. (aside:) It is not working?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is working.



*Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing something. Everyone is eating something. Everyone is undergoing some austerity for success of his endeavor. So that should be converted to Kṛṣṇa only. Then it is success. This is the verdict of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam.



ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*This is the resolution passed in the Naimiṣāraṇya big meeting, that... Everyone is working according to his capacity. Of course, in the Vedic conception a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa*-this is the division. So in the meeting in the Naimiṣāraṇya the conclusion was that ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā. The president addressed all the learned brāhmaṇas and scholars assembled... Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for very first-class men, not for the loafer class. In the Bhagavad-gītā this is clearly said, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Not for the loafer class. But a loafer class man can become rājarṣi by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the secret. As the rājarṣi becoming... By materialistic way of life, a rājarṣi becoming as a loafer class... Just like you see, so many kingdoms were there, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Roman Empire, and so many empires were there. Where are those empires? Finished all. That will finish. It will not stay. Now the so-called kings, the emperors, they are now practically beggars. So if we do not decorate Kṛṣṇa, if we decorate our personal body, then gradually it will be finished. You'll be forced to become naked, what to speak of decoration? This is the way of nature. But if you try to decorate Kṛṣṇa, then without decoration you'll be worshiped; you'll be beloved. And this is the secret, just opposite. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi [Bg. 9.27].



*So try to understand. Of course, I have given a glimpse of idea in the Western countries of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Now you are able young boys, young girls. You are intelligent. You have got so many credits behind you for material civilization. Now you take it. Just convert it. Material civilization means to endeavor for one's personal benefit. Just the opposite. The same thing should be done, but for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa does not want any benefit from you. He is quite competent. He does not want. But if you do for Kṛṣṇa, then you are benefited. This is the secret. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: [Bg. 9.26] "If you give Me little flower, little..." What Kṛṣṇa...? Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by... Lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. What? What does He want from you? What He'll gain by your patraṁ puṣpam? But He wants from you something. That you have forgotten. This is rascaldom. We have forgotten to offer to Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it is the beginning of offering everything to Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful. Try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*This is the secret. Whatever you do, it doesn't matter, but try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful. And for this purpose you have to satisfy your spiritual master, because he'll give direction. He knows. So yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **. The things are very easy. Simply we have to adopt. Everything is mentioned there in the śāstras. Simply you have to follow the śāstra and guru and sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. Sādhu, those who are devotees, we have to follow the devotees, the śāstra and guru. Then everything successful.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)





760427AR.NZ

Arrival Address

-

New Zealand, April 27, 1976



*Prabhupāda: ...human form of life, but unfortunately, the foolish leaders, they are keeping us in darkness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa personally comes. Whenever people are kept in darkness, that is called dharmasya glaniḥ. Glaniḥ means pollution, when the process of life becomes polluted. The process is that from the lower animal bodies we have come through the evolutionary process to this human form of life. Now there is further improvement required. This is the process, more and more. And that improvement goes up to the point of meeting Kṛṣṇa in Goloka Vṛndāvana. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paraṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. But even after coming to the platform of human being, the leaders, they do not teach them how to go further ahead, up to the point of Kṛṣṇa. They have no knowledge. Therefore they have been called in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ.



*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa tantryām uru*-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*These rascals, so-called leaders, gurus and others, they do not know what is the goal of life. Na te viduḥ. They do not know. Some imaginary theory, "I am God," "I am this," "I am that." A commonsense: "If I am God, then why I am under the control of the material nature?" Eh? This another rascal came, that "I am God." If you are God, so why you have become dog? They say it is līlā. (laughter) Just see. God has come to manifest his līlā by becoming a dog, and he's beaten. Whole day, night, he's hungry. And he has come to your home to ask some food, and you are beating. So God is displaying this līlā. Just see how foolish rascal they are. This is going on. So don't be misguided by such rascals. Either he may be parents or guru or superior, teacher, whatever he may be, don't be misguided. Fortunately you have come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't misuse it. That is my request. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, I have simply wasted my time." Why? Now, manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu: "I got this human form of life. It is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with Rādhārāṇī, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So I did not care for that. That means knowingly I have drunk poison."



So my only request is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the most scientific movement to save the human society from falling down again in the cycle of birth and death. It is very scientific movement. The cycle of birth and death is going on. We are eternal. The people have been put into so deep darkness, they do not know what is going on, what is the aim of life. They do not know. Na te viduḥ. They do not know. Whimsically everyone is manufacturing something, nonsense. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. What Kṛṣṇa says, we have to accept that. Then we are safe. Otherwise we are lost again. So fortunately you have got this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so utilize your life properly. You have got immense literature. Read it. Digest it. Make your life perfect. That is my request. Don't spoil. At least you have come to the shore of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. It is great fortune. Bhāgyavan jīva. Unless one is very fortunate, he cannot come to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's a fact. So don't misuse it. That is my request. I am very glad to see you, you are so enthusiastic. And you should be enthusiastic.

utsāhād dhairyāt

*tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt

*sato vṛtteḥ sādhu*-saṅge

ṣaḍbhir bhaktir prasidhyati



*For enhancing devotional activities one must be very enthusiastic. That is the first proposition. Don't be dull. Enthusiastic. Utsāhāt and dhairyāt, patiently. Utsāhād, dhairyāt, niścayād. Niścayāt means firmly convinced: "Yes, surely I shall meet Kṛṣṇa and go to Him, back to home, back to..." Niścayāt. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. But you have to do the prescribed duties. Sato vṛtteḥ. You must be very honest and sādhu-saṅge, and in the association of devotees. Six: utsāhā, dhairyā, niścayāta, and tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83], and being honest. If we follow these six principles, then it is sure. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktir prasidhyati.



*And just the opposite number is atyāhāra, eating too much or... Āhāra means eating and āhāra means collection*-too much collection unnecessarily. Of course, for our preaching we require, but we shall collect as much as we require, not that keep money in the bank and spend for some other purposes. That kind of collection is dangerous. And too much eating is also dangerous. Atyāhāra. And prayāsa. Prayāsa means endeavoring too much for getting something. Our life should be very simple. We shall act so simply that we shall have to save time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we should not attempt anything which is very difficult to execute. So atyāhāra prayāsaś ca prajalpa, Unnecessary talking all nonsense, politics, rascaldom, speculation, this, that. No. Be grave. Don't talk nonsense, waste time. Atyāhāra prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ. Niyamāgraha means not to accept the regulative principle, niyama āgraha. Āgraha means not to accept, and niyamāgraha means simply I am packed up with the regulative principle but I do not see whether I am making progress. So at least one should stick to follow the regulative principle. That is good. That must be done in the lower stage. So niyamāgraha. Atyāhāra prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ, and laulyam, greediness. And jana-saṅgaś ca, and to associate with nondevotee, unwanted person. So these six things should be avoided, and the first mentioned six things should be accepted. Then our progress is sure, without any failure. We have published this book, Nectar of Instruction. Have you seen? That is Rūpa Gosvāmī. All these instructions are there. Read it very carefully. Everything is there.

*So only point is that you have got this human form of life, nṛ-deham ādyam. This is the opportunity, good boat. Just like to cross over the sea, if you get a very nice boat, that is one's surety, so nṛ-deham ādyam, this body, is good boat for crossing over the material nescience, ocean. And guruḥ karṇa-dharaḥ: "And the captain is guru." The boat is there and captain is there. And the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is favorable wind. Nṛ-deham ādyaṁ guruḥ karṇa-dharaḥ. In this way you have got this opportunity. Now you cross over from the material world to the spiritual world. If you don't take this opportunity, then ātma-hā*-you are committing suicide. And the nature's law is very strict. Just like I was explaining. We are coming very illuminated road, and just one yard after there is dark field. Both are side by side. But if we... (end)



760503AR.HON

Arrival

-

Honolulu, May 3, 1976



Prabhupāda:



...niścayād

*tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt

*sato vṛtteḥ sādhu*-saṅge

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati



*You have seen this verse in the Nectar of Instruction. Utsāhā: enthusiasm. Dhairya means patience. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt, means conviction. And tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt, and following the regulative principles. Sato vṛtteḥ, to become sincere and honest. And sādhu-saṅge, and in the association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktir prasidhyati. The bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will advance. These are the six principles we should always remember: enthusiasm, patience, conviction, following the regulative principles, becoming honest, and in the association of devotees. So I am very glad to see that you are all very enthusiastic, and you follow the other principles. Then be sure that you are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that will save you from the dangerous civilization which do not understand the future of life. As the cats and dogs, they do not understand what is the future of life, similarly, if human beings, getting this opportunity of very intelligent, developed consciousness, if a human being does not understand what is the goal of life, what is the future of life, then he remains a cat and dog. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. So those who have joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, my request is they follow the regulative principles, as instructed by Rūpa Gosvāmī, with enthusiasm, read books and distribute books. And that is a very great service. I'll speak something, you may forget, but if you read from the book, you will get good opportunity to understand the philosophy. So our principle is to study the books as well as to distribute the books. People will be benefited and their life will be successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. (end)



760611AR.DET

Arrival Speech Excerpt

-

Detroit, June 11, 1976



Prabhupāda: ...our process is: what Kṛṣṇa says, we believe Kṛṣṇa because He is the supreme authority. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, accepted by all ācāryas. In our India the ācāryas are Rāmānujācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya. They all accepted Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. Formerly the ācāryas like Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Nārada... Later, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So all accept *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*. Therefore we should accept what Kṛṣṇa said, that. Then you are sound. No question of "My religion is the best." What Kṛṣṇa said, that is sound. So Kṛṣṇa says very simple thing. Our real problem is how to get relief from the material world. One may say, "What is fault of material world?" The fault is that you may arrange... First of all, there is no happiness. But even though you make some arrangement, still, you are not allowed to stay. Suppose you have made very good arrangement: "I have got very nice house, nice car, very nice family, wife and relatives, and business, just going on." But where is the guarantee that you shall stay here very long? That is the question. Suppose you... (indistinct) (end)





760617AR.TOR

Arrival Address

-

Toronto, June 17, 1976



Prabhupāda: I thank you very much for arranging this nice temple in Toronto. So actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the basic principle of united nations. Last night two Christian fathers came to see me in Detroit. So we were talking about this movement. So we explained... They were very much satisfied. Actually, this movement is for cleansing the heart. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is the cleansing the heart. We have simply created misunderstanding on account of material concept of life. We have accepted this body: "I am this body." I am, because I am accepting that I am this body... Accidentally this body was born in India; *therefore I am thinking I'm an Indian. Or accidentally the body was born in Canada or in America*-I am thinking I'm Canadian or I'm Indian or I'm American. This is created. This is not the actual fact. Actual fact is that I am not this body but I am the spirit soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am the spirit soul." This is actual knowledge.



So,

*yasyātmā*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*This is the verdict of Vedic literature. Anyone who is thinking that "I am this body," and with reference to the body the family members, the society members or the nation members, national members... We are expanded. Or even international members. But I am not this body. So this kind of thinking is there in the animals also. The animals, the dog is thinking, "I am dog." And it is barking*-dog's business. Similarly, if we go to the United Nations and bark like the dog, thinking that "I am this body," then where is the difference between the dog and the human being? Simply barking, you'll distinguish from the animal or the human being? No. Actually, our education should be based on that "I am not this body." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu declared that "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a gṛhastha, I am not this or that." Designations. He refused to accept these designations. But He introduced Himself as the servant of the servant of the servant of God, Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80].



*So if we understand this fact... It is not "I believe," "I think," "Perhaps." No "perhaps," no "thinking," no "believing." It is a fact that I am not this body. Everyone can understand. A man has died, his sons family members crying, "Oh, my father has gone, my father has gone!" Where has your father gone? Here is your father lying down. Why you are crying your father has gone? "No, my father is gone." So that means he never saw his father. He saw the coat*-pant of the father, and now it is not moving. The coat-pant is there, but still he says, "My father is gone." This is our misunderstanding. Your father is not this body. The spirit soul which moved the father so long, and you accepted the coat-pant or the body as father, that is your misunderstanding. Father is not this coat-pant or the body. Father is within.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*This is the first education of Bhagavad*-gītā, that within this body the living entity is there. The living entity is there, but the body is changing. The child is becoming boy, the boy is becoming young man, the young man is becoming middle-aged man, middle-aged man becoming old man. The body is changing. We know, every one of us. But I am the same spirit soul. This misunderstanding, that I am not this body, still, I am identifying with this body, this is our ignorance. And so long this ignorance will continue, we shall remain like cats and dogs, There cannot be any peace. It is not possible. When we come to the real understanding that we are spirit soul and part and parcel of God, then we become actually learned.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*So people have opened the United Nations, but there is no education about our identity, what I am*-whether I am this body or the moving spirit which is moving the body; *whether I am that moving spirit or I am this material lump of matter. So it is a great science. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a sentimental movement, not a bluffing movement, that a man has become God by some mystic power or this... No. It is a science. One has to study. That is, it is called kṛṣṇa-tattva. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means kṛṣṇa-tattva, the science of Kṛṣṇa, or the science of God. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu very seriously started this movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa very easily. We cannot understand on account of our ignorance. I am not this body, everyone sees practically. Still, he's identifying with this body. This is called ignorance or, in common words, rascaldom. Mūḍha. They are called mūḍhas, rascals. So the United Nations, for the last thirty, forty years, they are struggling, but there is no unity of the nations. That is not possible. So long you are in the bodily concept of life, there cannot be any unity. When you actually come to the platform to understand that I am not this body, I am spirit soul, then there will be... Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. Then the question of equality, fraternity, justice and everything will come. Unless we do not understand what I am-I misidentify myself with this body*-we shall remain in the darkness of the animal. There cannot be any peace and prosperity. That is not possible.



*So we have come here in Toronto to open this center to give this enlightenment to everyone. It is not meant for a particular nation, particular religious system. It is a science. Suppose if we say that you become peaceful, you become honest, you become wise. These instructions are not meant for East or West. It is meant for everyone. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people how to become wise, honest, truthful, believer in God, so on, so on. This is the movement. So we think that you shall take seriously this movement. Actually, this is the platform of united nations, or united living beings. And we are not simply talking. This science is being discussed in volumes of books. We have already published about fifty*-four books. These books are selling very nicely. It is not sentiment, it is a science. So we request the people of this nice city, Toronto, to take advantage of this movement, come here, read our books, make your questions solved, and you'll be all happy. It doesn't matter whether you are Canadian or Indian. It doesn't matter.

Thank you very much. [break] Any question to understand this? If there is any question, you can put. That's all. (end)



760621AR.NV

Arrival Speech

-

New Vrindaban, June 21, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Any karatālas? (sings Jaya Rādhā*-Mādhava) So after two years, I think, I have got the opportunity of seeing you and your Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra, who is so kind upon you. So real happiness is here. Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra is staying here, and He's pleased with your service. This is the perfection of life. Keep Kṛṣṇa always with you and serve Him sincerely, then all happiness will come, without any endeavor. The foolish people, they do not know. They are trying to improve their economic condition, position, and wasting their time. It has no value. Of course, modern people will take it as very revolting that there is no need of this endeavor for economic development. Actually you, if you study minutely, what is the benefit by economic development? Prahlāda Mahārāja said that, what is that verse? Only waste of time. Prayateta? Na prayateta, na tasya etad prayateta tat-prayāso kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. This modern civilization, it is not modern, but in modern civilization it has become very prominent, that to improve the economic condition. Economic condition means we improve the standard of sense gratification. This is called going on economic condition. But we require a little sense gratification. Dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. This is the gradual process of evolution. Real purpose is mokṣa, how to become free from this entanglement of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is the real aim of life. But because we are coming from the lowest grade of living condition, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati-like that, 8,400,000 different species of life-our tendency is only for sense gratification. Because in the lower grade of life there is no other pleasure except sense gratification. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. A small ant, some information has come to him that on the third floor there is a grain of sugar, and he's running there. Āhāra: something eatable is there. So sense enjoyment means these four things: eating, sleeping, sex and defense. This is called sense enjoyment. But this is common to everyone.



sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

*deha*-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ



*Now, if you study the lower grade of life, they are having all these things without any plan for economic development. Lower grade, just like animals, say, other lower grade... Lower grade means less than the animal or the aquatics, the plants, the insects, the birds, then come to the beast, then come to the human form of life, civilized. Uncivilized, then civilized. In this way there is a gradation. So this happiness, sense gratification, that is already there. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha*-yogena dehinām. The sense gratification is there in different bodies, but the standard may be different. Standard means our calculation; *otherwise, the standard is also the same. The sex life between dogs and sex life between human beings, the pleasure is the same. There is no change. There is no change. You don't think that when the dogs on the public street enjoy sex life their standard is lesser than our sex life in a very nice decorated apartment, and so many things, nice dress, nice bedding. No. The pleasure is the same. Just like if one has got typhoid fever. It is not that the poor man will suffer more than the rich man. No. The fever temperature is the same. The doctor, after taking temperature, he will say the temperature is the same. It does not mean that because the rich man has got typhoid fever, his suffering is less than the typhoid fever for the poor man. No. That is not possible. So we think that the standard of sense gratification is pleasure. No. The standard of pleasure of this eating, sleeping... We are taking pleasure in eating nice foodstuff. Just now Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja gave me... And another animal, he's also eating something very abominable to our consideration. Just like the pig eating stool. He's also getting the same pleasure. So economic development does not mean that you can improve the quality of pleasure. That is not possible. Therefore I was speaking that the dog is running with four legs and we are running with four wheels, but it does not mean the pleasure of running is different. The dog is also enjoying by running here and there*-perhaps you have seen sometimes-with four legs. And we are also. The standard does not improve. The superficial change. I may think that this is advancement. No. That is not advancement, because the real thing is that your sense pleasure.



*So sense pleasure of the dog and sense pleasure of the human being may be executed in a different way, but the pleasure derived out of it is the same. Therefore śāstra says, sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha*-yogena: simply the living entity is put in a certain type of body, he's endeavoring in a different way. Therefore he said, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Simply to improve the standard of... Actually there is no improvement, but we think that we have improved. Rather we have taken so much risk. That requires knowledge, but anyone can understand. Suppose I can eat some quantity of food. Even if I am millionaire, I shall eat the same quantity. Not that because I am millionaire... Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja gave me so much nice foodstuff, but I could take only according to my appetite. One purī, two samosas, that's all. (laughter) It is not that because Kīrtanananda Mahārāja has given so nice food, I shall eat the whole plate. No. That is not possible. I'll have to eat so much as I can eat. So by improving the so-called standard, I shall eat the same proportion as I am able to eat, not more nor less. And that is destined. That is destined. When I came to your country I had no shelter, I had no food, no arrangement. But I was eating. And now I have got so many nice sons and daughters, but I am eating the same. So when there was nobody to tell me, I was eating; and now you are so many to give me satisfaction, I am also eating. So eating is not stopped. Eating is not stopped, in any condition. That is arranged by God. Every living entity, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That's God. God is providing food for the ant and for the elephant, simultaneously. So why should we waste our time for this purpose, eating, sleeping...? That is already settled up. It is already... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. Settled up? Then we haven't got to work? Yes, you haven't got to work. You haven't got to work. For Kṛṣṇa's service, not for your eating, sleeping, mating, defending. No, you haven't got. It is already there. It is already fixed up.

Therefore śāstra says tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ. In every life you have tried to get very nice food, nice shelter, nice sex life. That is going on. But when you have got this human form of life, if you try for the same purpose and waste your time, thinking yourself advanced in civilization, because a dog is running on the street with four legs and you are running with greater speed with four wheels, that does not mean you have improved. You are still dog. You must remember that. You are not even human being. Because the, in the form of human being your business is to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is your business. If you don't try to understand Kṛṣṇa and simply improve your method of running better than the dog, that is not civilization. This is our presentation. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means presenting a new life of civilization, how to become a servant of Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will come automatically. Kṛṣṇa is supplying already. Just like government. When a man is put into the jail for his criminality, the government takes care of his food, of his shelter; *if he's sick, hospital, everything*-but he's still punished for correction. Similarly, we are all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will give us food, shelter, sex facility and defense everywhere. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām sarvatra labhyate daivād: by the arrangement of the superior. You can see practically. The elephant is eating forty kilos at a time, and he has no attempt for economic development. He's getting. And the ant also, a grain of sugar, he's getting. You'll find within your room, in a hole, there are thousands of ants. Are you giving him food? Who is giving them? Not only one, two-thousands. So this is intelligence, that God has provided for everyone these facilities, so human being, why he should not have this facility from God? It is already there. There is no doubt about it.

Therefore human life should be utilized to understand God, because forgetting God we are in this material world and suffering so many miserable conditions of life. That is our problem. And the most important problem is birth, death, old age and disease. So to make a solution of this birth, death, that is meant in the human form of life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa says,

janma karma me divyaṁ

evaṁ yo vettitattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

[Bg. 4.9]



*Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa you'll become free from this material entanglement*-birth, death, old age and disease.



*Yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]. That should be our aim of life. Not the so*-called rat-racing or dog-racing. No. This is not civilization. And Kṛṣṇa has given... (end)



760709AD.NY

Arrival Address

-

New York, July 9, 1976



*Prabhupāda: So first of all I must thank you all for bringing me in this new temple, because when I first came my ambition was to start temple here in New York, and I was seeking the opportunity living in the 72nd Street. There was a house, very small house, one part of this space-25 feet by one 100 feet. So they wanted $100,000. So I wrote one rich friend in India, industrialist*-perhaps you know him, that Kanpurwalla, Singaniya. So he agreed to pay me, but the government did not allow. The Indian government did not allow to transfer money from India to here. Then I approached the, what is that? Salvation Army, the chief man. I offered him that "You are spending money in India. So I have got a friend, he'll pay you, you pay me here." So he asked me "What is the rate you want to pay me?" So I told him, "The present rate is five dollars..., five rupees, one dollar." So he remained silent. That means he wanted more. In this way I had no place. What to speak of temple, I had no residential place even. So in that condition I was thinking of returning back to India. So the shipping company I was, practically every week, I was going.



So it is a long history that I came here with determination to start a temple in New York first, but at that time, ten years before, in 1965, it was not possible. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, by the grace of my Guru Mahārāja, you have got this place. So I must thank you very much for organizing this temple. Actually, in this line of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, two things are very important. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said in His teaching to Rūpa Gosvāmī,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*We are loitering throughout the whole universe. This is conditional stage of our materialistic life, and we are simply suffering. People are kept into ignorance without knowing the aim of life, how we are suffering in this materialistic way of life. They are so dull*-brained that Kṛṣṇa says personally that here the real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You are simply busy with some petty problems. And they are not problems. Real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Why...? We are eternal living entities. Why we should be subjected to birth, death, old age and disease repeatedly? This is real problem. Unfortunately there is no such education all over the world to deal with the real problem. They are simply tackling some temporary problem and spoiling the human form of life to solve these petty problems and creating a situation for the next life which may not be very good, because this material world is matsaratā. Matsaratā means envious. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. This is material life. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not for the people who are envious. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vedyaṁ vāstavam atra vastu [SB 1.1.2]. Why enviousness? You are human being, I am human being. Why we should be envious of one another. This is artificial. There is no need of. But we are put into certain condition that we have to become envious by nature or someone.



*So this materialistic way of life is full of enviousness, rivalry, competition, then birth, death, old age, disease, threefold miseries-ādhyātmic ādhibhautic, miseries from the mind, from the body, from other living entities, natural disturbance. And we are trying to be happy here. This is called foolishness. It is not possible. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. The creator of this world says that this place is for suffering, duḥkhālayam. And aśāśvatam. That is also temporary. You may think, "Never mind. I am American. We have got big, big buildings and big, big roads and cars. Never mind it is duḥkhālayam, I shall remain here." No, sir, you cannot remain." Aśāśvatam: you have to leave this place. Even if you make compromise that "Never mind. I am happy now to my estimation," the answer is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You cannot make permanent settlement. That is not possible. Then what? Bhuñjate... What is that? Puruṣaḥ prakṛti*-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān [Bg. 13.22]. We are placed in this material condition and we are obliged to contact the three types of material modes of nature, and according to the infection we suffer. Actually we suffer, but sometimes there is a little so-called happiness. In this way we are loitering within this universe-sometimes in the upper planetary system, sometimes lower planetary system, sometimes as human being, sometimes as demigod, or sometimes as cats, dog, trees. This is our position. And we are manufacturing our position. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni janmasu [Bg. 13.22]. So we are completely under the clutches of material nature, and this is going on. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*In this way we are loitering throughout the whole universe in different planetary system, in different species of life, in different country, different, according to our... Brahmāṇḍa bhramite. Brahmāṇḍa means within the universe. They are trying to go to the upper planetary system, and they can go. There is no difficulty. Yānti deva*-vratā devān pitṝn yānti [Bg. 9.25]. But you have to properly prepare. Not that because you have got one sputnik or airplane you can go by force. That is not possible. This is all rascaldom. This is not possible. But you can go if you prepare yourself. You can go even back to home, back to Godhead. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So there is every possibility. Now this is the crucial point of human form of life. We can go in the higher planetary system, we can go in the lower planetary system, we can stay where we are, or even we like we can go back to home, back to Godhead.



So the intelligent person should know what are the different situation, different life. They do not know. The other day our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara was speaking that whatever scientific improvement or educational improvement they have made, two things are wanting. They do not know what are these different planets in the sky. They do not know. They're simply imagining. They are trying to go to the moon planet, Mars planet. That is also not possible. Even if you go (to) one or two planets, there are millions of planets; what do you know about them? There is no knowledge. And another knowledge: they do not know what is the problems of life. Two things they are lacking. And we are dealing with these two things. The problem of life is that we are bereft, we are away from Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *therefore we are suffering. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole problem is solved. And so far planetary system is considered, so Kṛṣṇa is giving you opportunity, wherever you like you can go. But the intelligent person will select, mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. "Those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they come to Me." So what is the difference between these two? Even if I go to the moon planet or Mars planet or Brahmaloka, Kṛṣṇa says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. You can go to the Brahmaloka, but kṣīṇe puṇye puṇyo martya-lokaṁ viśanti: "You'll have to come back again." And Kṛṣṇa also says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām.

*So you have got this opportunity, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, what is what. Do not lose this opportunity. Do not be foolish, misled by so-called scientists or philosophers or politicians. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is possible only guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. By the mercy of guru and by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa you can achieve all success. This is the secret.

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]



*So this guru*-pūjā which we are doing, it is not self aggrandizement; *it is real teaching. You sing daily, what is that? Guru*-mukha-padma-vākya āra nā kariyā aikya **. Bas, this is translation. I tell you frankly, whatever little success is there in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I simply believed what was spoken by my Guru Mahārāja. You also continue that. Then every success will come.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)





760903AR.VRN

Arrival Address

-

Vṛndāvana, September 3, 1976



*Prabhupāda: So here is a verse, number fifteen, from Bhagavad*-gītā, Seventh Chapter:



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*So we have made this verse a standard of examination. We haven't got to do anything. Everything is there, because Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Arjuna, in the paramparā system, is teaching us how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So this is the qualification how to advance in spiritual consciousness. People are suffering. For want of spiritual consciousness, they are living like animal, dehātma*-buddhiḥ.



*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijyadhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go*-kharaḥ means animals, cows and asses. Anyone who is thinking, "I am this body," he is animal. This is the verdict. Actually he is animal. If the dog is thinking, "I am dog," and if some gentleman is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," or "I am Englishman," where is the difference? To identify the body? There is no difference.



*So on this platform of bodily concept of life, we remain animal. And to raise from that animal platform to the platform of our spiritual consciousness, that is the business of human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta*-sūtra. If we do not inquire about Brahman in this human form of life, which is obtained after many, many births... Bahūnāṁ sambhavante. Many, many millions of years and millions of births. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. We change our body, but because we are on the animal platform, we cannot understand that we have to change our body. So Kṛṣṇa personally comes, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. He's more anxious for us because we are suffering in this material world under bodily concept of life. That is His first instruction. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. We have to understand that we have to change this body. Don't be happy because you have got by karma a comfortable body. No body is comfortable. It is temporary, even it is comfortable. Even if you have got a very nice body, American body or European body, it may appear to be very nice, better than the Indian body-but that is not permanent. You'll have to change it. That is spiritual consciousness.

*So we must be prepared. This is glānir. On the platform of bodily concept of life, whatever we are doing, that is all defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. In the bodily concept of life, whatever we are doing, simply defeat. We are thinking, "I'm making very good progress." Rascaldom. There is no progress. Unless you become inquisitive, athāto brahma jijñāsā, there is no progress. That has been taught by our ācāryas. Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he approached..., Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Lord Caitanya, his first question was... He was prime minister, he was a very big man, but he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu to inquire, "Who am I?" Ke āmi. That was his inquiry. Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya, apani kaha prabhu kiser hita haya. So this is the process, to know of oneself, not to be bewildered for the temporary, bodily comforts. This is the instruction of the whole Vedic literature. Prahlāda Mahārāja also said to Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam vimūḍhān. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43], that those who are engaged for this temporary māyā-sukha, they are vimūḍhān. The same thing is explained here: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So those who are after this material happiness, they have been always described in all śāstras, and Kṛṣṇa is personally describing: mūḍha. Vimūḍhān. If we want to remain a vimūḍhān and suffer this material existence, that is our not very sign of good intelligence. Everyone should try to be intelligent enough what is the goal of life, what is to be done in this human form of life. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the supreme welfare activities in the world, because we are trying to stop the life of hogs and dogs. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujām, the stool-eaters, hogs. What is their business? We have seen in Vṛndāvana also there are many hogs. Day and nights searching after stool, and eating, and getting some strength and fat, then sense enjoyment, never mind whether it is mother, sister or daughter. This hogs' and dogs' life should be stopped. It is not possible for everyone to stop, but those who are intelligent, fortunate, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva,

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*So you are all fortunate that you have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, bhakti*-latā-bīja. And proceed according to the principles. And the first principle is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is the first principle. Ādau gurvāśrayam. That is the first principle. And in the Vedas also it is said that,



yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante...

[ŚU 6.23]



*Vedic knowledge is revelation. Vedic knowledge is not understood by so-called mundane scholarship, by reading grammar. No. Vedic knowledge is possible to be understood by a person who has got unflinching faith in the bona fide guru. Guru means representative of Kṛṣṇa*-Kṛṣṇa and His representative. We have repeatedly discussed this fact that guru means the bona fide servant of Kṛṣṇa. Guru does not mean a magician or jugglery. That is not guru. Guru means, it is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu very easily, how to become guru. He has asked everyone, especially those who are born in India, bhārata bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. Especially. Because we Indians, bhāratīya, we have got facilities to become guru of the whole world. We have got the facility. Because here we have got the literatures, Vedic literatures, especially the Bhagavad-gītā, which is spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself. If we try to understand what is the aim of life and preach all over the world, then you become guru. And if we want to cheat others in the name of so-called yogis, swami, scholar, that will not make you guru. Guru... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you become, all Indians, all Bhāratīyas, guru. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Wherever you are. And how shall I become guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa. That's all.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to follow the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction is this, to preach kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa. And this is kṛṣṇa upadeśa: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. This is not our manufactured words; *it is kṛṣṇa*-upadeśa, that "Anyone who is not surrendered to Me, duṣkṛtina, he is immediately classified into four groups." What are they? Duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. So it is a very simple thing. Who is a mūḍha? If one does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, if one does not understand what Kṛṣṇa, he is either duṣkṛtina, means sinful; mūḍha, rascal; narādhama, lowest of the mankind; *and māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā, and his so-called education and degrees are useless because real knowledge is taken away from him. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. So there is no need of fighting by... But we can understand what are these people in general. They are within these four groups of men. So we have to face them. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is facing these rascals, these duṣkṛtinas, these narādhamas, and to request them to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You cannot sit idly to show your gorgeousness in a secluded place, imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. No. You have to preach. That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That is really following the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Not to imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You can... Even you do that very nicely, that is for your safety. Supposing that you are doing nicely, but that is for your safety. But one who is facing dangerous position for others' benefit, they are very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa.

na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu

*kaścin me priya*-kṛttamaḥ

[Bg. 18.69]



ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

*mad*-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati

[Bg 18.68]



So if you face... Just like fighting soldiers, they are facing danger for the country. They are recognized. Similarly, those who are preachers, on behalf of Kṛṣṇa preaching people to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are great soldiers.



*So I am very happy that you Europeans and Americans especially, you are helping me. So continue this process, and that is the very easy way to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Because He says, na ca tasman manusyesu kaścin me priya*-krttamaḥ [Bg. 18.69]. Who? Who is preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I thank you very much that you have come here in Vṛndāvana, and you are traveling, you are preaching. So let us dedicate this life for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. Never mind we die by preaching. Still, it will be glorious.

Thank you very much. (end)



761009AR.ALI

Arrival Talk

-

Aligarh, October 9, 1976



*Prabhupāda: ...very glad to see you again. So this saṅkīrtana is all glorious. That is the blessings of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. This is His blessing: simply by saṅkīrtana in this age. It is confirmed in the Vedic literature, in Vedānta-sūtra. Śabdād anāvṛtti. Anāvṛtti, liberation. Our present position is bondage. We are bound up by the laws of nature. We may foolishly declare independence*-that is our foolishness-but actually we are bound up by the laws of nature.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra vimudhātmā

kartāham...

[Bg. 3.27]



*We are bound up by the laws of nature, but those who are fools, vimudhātmā, under false prestige, such person thinks that he is independent. No. That is not. So this is misunderstanding. So this misunderstanding has to be cleaned. That is the aim of life. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, then the first installment of benefit is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Because misunderstanding means within the heart. If the heart is clear, consciousness is clear, then there is no misunderstanding. So this consciousness has to be cleansed. And that is the first installment of the result of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅga paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa's, kṛṣṇasya, holy name of Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma, the same thing. Rāma and Kṛṣṇa there is no difference. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. So you require. The present position is misunderstanding, that "I am product of this material nature," "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," and so on, so on... So many designations. But we are none of them. This is the clearing. Ceto-darpaṇa. When you understand clearly that "I am not an Indian, I'm not an American, I'm not brāhmaṇa, I'm not kṣatriya"-means "I am not this body"-then the consciousness will be ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. This is wanted. This is success of life. Otherwise, if we remain in darkness of our existence...



*Everyone is abodha-jāto. So anyone born in this material world in different platform... One may take birth as demigod in the heavenly planets or one may take birth as a human being in the lower planets. And lower than that, animal, plants. There are 8,400,000 different species of life. So any form of life, we are bound up by the laws of nature, and bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. The puruṣaḥ... Puruṣaḥ means the living entity. Puruṣaḥ... Actually, nobody is puruṣaḥ. Everyone is prakṛti. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtim parām. Parā prakṛtim. The material, matter, is the aparā-prakṛti, and spirit soul is parā-prakṛti. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly explained, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. This is... Bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. This is separated. This is also nature, but inferior. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. There is another prakṛti. What is that? Jīva-bhūto. This living entity. So living entity is also prakṛti, but because he has the tendency to enjoy this material world, he is sometimes described as puruṣaḥ. Puruṣaḥ means enjoyer and prakṛti means enjoyed. So the prakṛti forgets her position and artificially he wants to become puruṣaḥ. So this puruṣaḥ, prakṛti 'stho. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti 'stho bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. So long he's in this material world, he has to associate with the modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. And on account of the influence of the prakṛti-jān guṇa, he has to take different types of bodies. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti 'stho bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. This is the kāraṇa. He's associating with a particular type of the modes of prakṛti-jān guṇān-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa*-and on account of this he gets different types of body. You have to change your body. Dehāntaram. Tathā dehāntaram-prāptir. But different grades of body is awarded by the laws of nature according to our karma. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. So this is... Our material position is that we are associating with different modes of material nature, and that is infection. If you become infected with some disease, germ, then you have to suffer from that disease. You cannot check it. Similarly, this infection will give us our next body. That we do not know. This is a rascal civilization. They're kept into the darkness, that how things are going on. Their so-called education, university... So whatever they are doing, they are all being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Ātma-tattvam. Unless one is inquisitive to understand "What I am?" whatever he is doing, he's being defeated. That's all. Parābhavaḥ.

*So the human life is meant for understanding what is the position, "What I am?" This is intelligence. When Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu he was minister, very big man, but he understood that "What I am doing is not to my interest, because I do not know what I am." He submitted to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that grāmya*-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍit satya kari māni. "In my relationship with my neighbors, they call 'paṇḍitajī.' " He was brāhmaṇa. "So I accept it, 'Yes, I (am) paṇḍita.' " So what is the wrong? "The wrong is that I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know what I am." (laughs) So ask anybody. Our Dr. Sukla is also... (chuckles ) So ask any doctor, "What you are?" "Huh? I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa." This answer you'll get. "I'm American." Nobody will say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Nobody will say. Nobody will say because he does not know. So what is the value of this education if one does not know what he is? Therefore śāstra says parābhavaḥ. In ignorance, gross ignorance, anything you are doing, that is parābhava. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to save the people from this defeating position. We are trying... So far I have tried single-handed. And now the, a little pressure is felt even by some American politicians. Recently one American politician has remarked that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is just like epidemic. (laughs) And if we do not take any step then within ten years they'll take our government." So the Communists in India, they are trying to defeat us in so many ways.

Indian man: We have seen the articles in Blitz.



*Prabhupāda: Because they are also afraid. Because the Communist movement means godlessness. And our movement is, "Here is God." There is no blind faith. "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa! You take His name, you take His address*-everything." Practical. So that is a great cause of fear for these Communists. So they are against us. So now I shall request the śreṣṭhas, those who are leading persons in India, they should join this movement, take it seriously. It is not a bogus movement. It is a scientific movement. And we have so many books. Now, at the present moment, we have got eighty-four books. So that is my request, that people should come forward. They should come forward and take seriously this movement. And we have got our places. In Bombay we have got big place. In Vṛndāvana we have got big place. In Nadia we have got big place. At least elderly gentlemen like you... Now you should retire from family life and leave in charge of the grown-up boys. You should take seriously for India's interest, for everyone's interest, but as we want... We should not keep people in darkness. That is very risky. Very risky. You may be very proud that "I am this, I am that, I have to...," but you are after all under the control of the laws of nature. That you cannot avoid. Falsely proud. But you have to abide by it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. It is not so easy. Actually, nature's law, you can eat once attar. If you eat little more than that, then there is indigestion immediately. You have to go to the doctor. So what is your independence? You cannot violate a little portion of the laws of nature. So many. In every step. As soon as you violate, immediately there is punishment. And still, we are declaring independence. Asatyam. What is that? Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Find out. Jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8]. Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad ahur anīśvaram. "There is no God." Why you say there is no...? You are under control. There is a controller; otherwise, how you are under control? So this foolishness must be stopped in order to make them happy, really happy. Otherwise, if they are kept into ignorance and things go on like this, then the future picture is very gloomy. It has already become gloomy, and future is very, very gloomy. So everyone should come forward, take this movement seriously, and at least, we are Indians, we should take care of Indians. We should not keep people in ignorance. That is not civilization. That is not civilization. Civilization means tamasi mā jyotir gama. Come to the light. Don't keep yourself in darkness. That is not civilization. That, this civilization is keeping people in darkness. That is very risky. So we should take it very seriously and push this movement very scientifically, soberly, and people will be benefited.



Any question?

Indian man: What are the, our Prime Minister's view regarding this movement?



Prabhupāda: So far I know, she likes this movement. But she is also not independent.



Indian man: That's true. Nobody is independent. Even she.



*Prabhupāda: Recently one of my students met the Home Minister. He said, "Yes, this movement should be spread all over the world." They are appreciating. But there are different parties, different circumstances. Our four items*-no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling-so I think they are taking some steps on this ground. They are trying to stop cow-killing.



*Indian man (2): Yes, they have already banned cow*-killing.



Prabhupāda: And they are going to take steps for intoxication.



Indian man (2): Stopping intoxication also. Actually, these are the things which can bring up the character of the nation.



Prabhupāda: We are already intoxicated in material existence, and if more intoxication is there then...



Indian man (2): From bad to worse.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So this civilization, this education is simply misleading. Simply misleading. There is no enlightenment of this question, "What I am?" No. No answer.



Indian man (1): Now we have present here some Life Members of ISKCON.



Prabhupāda: Oh. [break] Life Members should be active Life Members. (laughter) Yes. (Hindi) If there is any doubt.



Indian man (1): Mahārāja, the one who brought ISKCON to this house is that boy, son of my..., who became first Life Member of ISKCON.



Prabhupāda: Oh, very intelligent.



Indian man (3): His name is Subodh, which means...



*Prabhupāda: Very intelligent. Subodh means... (laughter) I was talking of abodh. Yes. Abodha*-jāto.



*Indian man (3): Yes, abodha*-jāto. He is already subodha. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: He is subodha.



Indian man (3): He knows his... Evaṁ budhe paraṁ buddha.



Prabhupāda: Parābhavaḥ. One who is abodha, he is parābhava.



Indian man (3): Parābhava, defeated.



Prabhupāda: Defeat. And one is subodha, he is victory. So human life is meant for becoming subhodha, not abodha. But they are keeping abodha. This is difficulty. Everyone is abodha.



*Indian man (2): Mahārāja, I had a gentleman talking to me who is very intimate with Sanjaya Gandhi. And he was telling me that Sanjaya Gandhi very forcefully hinted, "Why are you people not working now? Why is the Arya*-samaj silent? Why the other powerful sects and movements are not working? Why have you taken this country into the hands of Muslims?" These were his words. "Why do you want that the country should depend, or the government should depend, on the support of Muslims? What are you doing? Why don't you come up?"



Indian man (1): But our government is supporting them, you see.



Indian man (2): Swami Mahārāja said that they are forces which when if you want to keep yourself in power, you have to sometimes ban and this...



Indian man (3): That's true.



*Prabhupāda: No. Apart from government, the first thing is... Sometimes we say, "Rāma*-rājya." The Rāma-rājya means... There is a verse in Bhāgavatam that when Lord Rāmacandra took charge of the, after coming back from the forest, His brother Bhārata surrendered and He took charge of the kingdom. So the residents, the subjects, are described as a varṇāśrama guṇanvita (?).



Indian man (3): Varnāśrama...?



*Prabhupāda: Gunanavita. So Rāma*-rājya can be established. And it is said there that Lord Rāmacandra was maintaining the kingdom, taking the citizens as His own son. Pitṛvat rāma. It is said there. Pitṛvat. As the father of the family takes charge of the children very nicely, so it is the government's duty to become the sensible father of the citizens. And the citizens will be qualified following the institution of varṇāśrama. Then there will be Rāma-rājya.



Indian man (3): That's the most scientific understanding...



Indian man (2): No. Prabhupāda rightly said in one of the meetings in Delhi that you people try to follow people who are in power. If Indira Gandhi were to do mālā just like this, I'm sure millions of people in India would be doing mālā like this. So she's doing that.



Indian man (3): Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tad tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg. 3.21].



Indian man (2): But you will not follow me because I have no political power; therefore you have not mālā japa. (Hindi)



Indian man (1): He is my eldest grandson. Here is another man, Subhoda.



Prabhupāda: He is subhoda and abodha. (laughter)



Indian man (1): Yes, subodha, suvrata.



Prabhupāda: Subhoda (Hindi) avatāra.



Indian man (1): He has described God. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Do you know what is God? Do you know?



Indian man (1): Do you know what is God or not?



Boy: I want to know.



Prabhupāda: You want to know? Do you know the meaning of the God? Then how you are asking what is God? If I say something wrong, how you'll understand if you do not know? Suppose you go to purchase something, "Give me gold," and if he gives you iron, then what you'll do? You do not know what is God, gold. You must know first of all what is God. Then you ask. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is going on. That is going on.



Indian man (1): Mahārāja, but there must be somebody to say that "this is gold and this is iron."



Prabhupāda: Yes, that means requires a superior education. Yes. The father, mother should be responsible...



Indian man (1): So who can be a greater than your Divine Grace?



*Prabhupāda: No, no. The father, father... The first thing is that why do you send your sons to the school? It is duty that he should know. So if the father is a rascal, then how the son can be subodha? (laughter) Therefore the śāstra says that unless you can train your son to overcome this process of birth, death, old..., you don't become a father. You remain a rascal. Don't beget children. This is contraception. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta*-mṛtyum. The real problem is mṛtyu. But they have taken it that "It is ordinary." But nobody wants to die. The education is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. But who knows that I do not die after the destruction of the body? Then why I am put into this position that I have to change this body, I have to die? This question does not arise. Therefore they're abodha. The instruction is na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. There is no inquiry that "If I'm not born, why I am born in this body?" This is question. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. "If I am not subjected to death, then why I am dying?" This question does not arise at all. Therefore everyone is abodha-jāto. Nobody is subodha. Everyone is abodha. The problem is there, but he does not inquire.



Indian lady: Mahārāja, don't you think it's high time that our Indian philosophy or Indian religion, some classes should be started in schools like they used to have? Missionaries used to have scripture classes in school. There should be in all the schools, I mean, classes on our own religion instead of learning somebody else's.



*Prabhupāda: It is not only... When we say that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā... [Bg. 2.13]. So as this boy, he was a child, now he has become a boy, then after few years he'll become a young man. And then he'll become middle*-aged man, then he'll become old man. So this is not our religion, your religion. This is fact. Scientific. When Bhagavad-gītā says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, that is not meant for the so-called Hindus. It is meant for the Muslims, meant for the Christians, everyone. It is science. Religion is a kind of faith. That they describe. But religion is also not a blind faith. Religion means the order of God. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like law means the order of the state. Similarly, religion means the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know what is God, what is order, then where is religion? It is all bogus.



Indian man (1): What my sister was saying was that most of the parents do not understand how they should bring up their progeny.



Prabhupāda: Yes. At least, the children should be... Therefore I'm starting that Gurukula in Vṛndāvana. So you come, you manage that take the ideas, and make your children... Whatever mistake is done is done. Now why the mistake should continue? Rectify it.



Indian man: (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: Then kick out secularism. Kick out secularism. Science, it is science.



Indian man: Science is nothing. What is God, what is nature, what is soul.



Indian man (1): You don't give it the name of one particular way. You simply deal it with the basic idea of transforming the human...



*Prabhupāda: When a child becomes a boy, there is no question of secularism. It is science. It is fact. Can you by secularism stop a child growing to become a boy? When I was explaining in South Africa these things, one Arya*-samaji friend, he criticized me that "Why you are bringing Hindu ideas?" So I said, "Is it Hindu ideas? A child grows to become a boy. It is Hindu idea? Why you are so fool you're calling Hindu idea?" A child grows to become a boy. This is science.



Indian man: The law of nature.



*Indian man: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara*-prāptir [Bg. 2.13]. Naturally...



*Prabhupāda: Because it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, they take it Hindu idea. This is nonsense.



Indian man (1): Our approach is so wrong that people take it as...



Prabhupāda: Immediately we can pass in a sectarian.



Indian lady: That is why it is necessary to have this as a part of social studies like you have other subjects in schools. If it is not given any more...



*Prabhupāda: But then, as soon as you say "Bhagavad*-gītā," immediately, "Hindu."



*Indian man (1): What sister wants to know is that how can we add in innumerable, rather, uncountless schools and colleges? The management will be most willing, I mean, the progressive management will be most willing to introduce classes where such laws of nature and such*-on scientific line, without giving it a Hindu or religious name. That should be taught. A curriculum should be drawn up. Because we control some of the schools.



Prabhupāda: That is my program. I am writing all books just only on this point; *therefore they are coming. Otherwise, what is the use? They were Christians and Jews. What is the use of becoming Hindus? So anyone wants to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they can understand easily if he joins Hare Kṛṣṇa, chant. That is all right. If he wants to understand scientifically, there are eighty*-four books. Come on. Which way you want?



Indian man (1): No. What we want is a very simple curricular. Elementary type.



Prabhupāda: Simple, this is simple curricular.



Indian man (1): So that they gradually, as a child grows into adolescence, when his intelligence also grows, his knowledge also grows. And then we give him still more deeper knowledge of the various things which we have been teaching on elementary basis. And still deeper. Just like this.



Prabhupāda: Just like this child, this boy inquired, "What is God?" So he can be instructed that "God is the Supreme Controller, just like your father is your controller." He'll accept this. Can you go against your father's will? He says no. He'll say naturally.



Indian man: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: So, he'll understand English? He's angrej? (laughter)



Indian man: (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: Very good.



Indian man: (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: Just like at home you are controlled by your parents. Is it not? You like to obey them?



Indian man: You like to obey them or sometimes you don't want to obey them?



*Prabhupāda: Similarly, you take the whole world as a big family. So there must be somebody, father and controller. Otherwise, how it is being conducted? That is God, the Supreme Controller. Just like in your family the father is the controller, similarly, you take it in wide scale, broader scale, there must be somebody father. Therefore the Christians, they take it, "O Father, give us our daily bread." And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is also confirmed, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



[break] Then he decided, "Yes, I shall fight." Kṛṣṇa inquired from him, "Now I have instructed you. Now, whatever you like you can do. And what is your decision?" Then he clearly said, "Yes, my decision is there. I'll fight." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. "As You advise, I understand that You want this fighting." So Vaiṣṇava means for the sake of Kṛṣṇa he can do anything. Not that he is lazy fellow, showing, "I have become very big Vaiṣṇava. Let me sleep under the name of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is not Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava must be very busy, always awaiting the order of the... Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. "What is Kṛṣṇa's order? What does He want?" He is ready. Just like a servant is always ready to receive the order of the master. That is faithful servant. That is real servant. Not that at night duty he is sleeping somewhere. No. That is not faithful servant. Faithful servant means always alert. And that is bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Simply one has to execute, ānukūlyena, how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. This is bhakti.



*So Hanumān is example. Hanumān was ordered to bring some medicine from some mountain. And he was a monkey, he was animal, he did not know how to pick up it-"Take the whole mountain. Execute the order. And then Rāmacandra and Lakṣmana, They'll find out what is that medicine." So this is Vaiṣṇava. In one's own capacity he should give the best service to the Lord. That is bhakti. Bhakti is not laziness. If somebody thinks that "The bhaktas are lazy fellows and they are out of the worldly activity," that is mistake. It is mistake. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Kṛṣṇa says personally, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi dadāsi yat tapasyasi yat kuruṣva mad*-arpaṇam: "Come on! Do it for Me." That is bhakti.. He does not say that "You become a lazy fellow, give up your occupational duty, and sleep, and snore, and become a great devotee." No. He never says. He says that "You are attached to this kind of work. All right, do it, but the result you give Me," that is bhakti. "Arjuna, you are a military man. All right, I ask you to fight. You become a fighter and become My devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Just see. What is that? He was not chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa says, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: "You are very dear friend and My devotee." Did he go on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra... So not that imitation. Of course, ultimate is always be absorbed in glorifying the Lord, but not in the beginning. In the beginning you must work very hard; you come to the stage of pure devotional platform. Then you can fully engage yourself meditation or chanting. Not in the beginning. In the beginning you should be very expert and active. That is wanted. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Udilo, from early in the morning, active. "Come on, chant. Come with Me so that others will see. If we make a party chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so in the beginning they may be disturbed because they have been accustomed to sleep up to nine o'clock, but as they will hear, gradually they'll become purified. They'll receive it."

*So that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He practically did it, and He asked everyone to do it. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "This is My order." He could remain a big devotee at His home. He was very popular in Navadvīpa, even when He was twenty years old. But still, He took sannyāsa and went door to door, village to village, town to town in India, and He left His order: pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma. "All over the world, as many towns and villages are there, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be..." Not that "We are big, big gosvāmīs and bābājīs. We do not go out of Vṛndāvana." They say that: "We do not go out of..." You are imitating them. (chuckles) Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma. And they have become very big Vaiṣṇava: "No, I don't go beyond the limits of Vṛndāvana." What is this nonsense? Did Caitanya Mahāprabhu say like that, that "You do not go beyond the limits...?" A devotee, wherever he is, that is Vṛndāvana. That is Vṛndāvana tīrtha. Kurvanti tīrthāni. A devotee, a pure devotee, can make any hell a tīrtha, a holy place. That is devotee. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni. That was Bhagīratha. Gaṅgā was hesitating, mother Gaṅgā, that "I shall go to the material world. People will take, all sinful men will take bathing, and I'll be overloaded with sin. Then how I shall get out of this sinful, accumulation of sins?" So Bhagīratha said, "My mother, don't hesitate. When a holy man will take bath in your water, then all the sins he will assimilate." Then she agreed. "Yes. That's..." So if we become holy man, actually, then immune. There is no difference. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. These are bogus, that "I do not go out of Vṛndāvana." They are making Vṛndāvana limited. Vṛndāvana is not limited. Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, wherever there is Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temple, that is Vṛndāvana. That is Vṛndāvana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He, once only, He went to Vṛndāvana. Does it mean He was not in Vṛndāvana? So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that preaching must go on in hell and heaven. We should be very much expert and follow the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the simple instructions. Mukunda mādhava yādava hari bolena bolo re vadana bori. Simply chant the holy names of Lord, mukunda mādhava yādava. This is Caitanya. Rise early in the morning. You go and preach, and work hard, day and night, and that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... This song indicates. That's all.

Thank you.

Devotees: Jaya. (offer obeisances)



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) ...they are offering their... We have received one letter, telegram, from one gentleman. What is his name? Patel? Bhogilal Patel. He's very rich man. So I was sometimes a guest in his house. He is very friendly. He comes to see me in Bombay. Old man. He is older than me, one or two years. But he has sent me one telegram, "Swamijī, take this land, one hundred acres of land in Ahmedabad."



Indian man: In?



Prabhupāda: Ahmedabad. Yes. So... There are so many. One gentleman has offered land in Mahabaleshwar. This is very costly place.



Indian man: Mahabaleshwar. Very costly place and very nice place.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) Very nice. And wherefrom other offers we have got?



Haṁsadūta: Hyderabad we have.



Prabhupāda: Hyderabad he has already... That is six hundred acres of land. What is the name of that place? Do you remember?



Haṁsadūta: Where? Hyderabad? No. We call it New Naimiṣāraṇya.



Prabhupāda: No, we have named New Naimiṣāraṇya. A very nice place.



*Indian man: You'll get a lot of offers. And as you rightly said that these Vaiṣṇavas, they want to become maṭha*-deśas, they want to become like kings. They don't want to leave their empire and go out, working hard like you and spreading the message of Lord Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission.



Indian man: That is the right attitude. Even if there is one bhakta, that is Vṛndāvana.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakta will create Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ tiṣṭhāmi vaikuṇṭha. "I do not stay in Vaikuṇṭha." Nāhaṁ tiṣṭhāmi vaikuṇṭhe yogināṁ hṛdayeṣu. "Neither I stay at the heart, core of the heart of the yogis." Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad*-bhaktāḥ. "When My pure devotee chants the glories of My..., I immediately stay there. I immediately stay." It's not that He is packed up in some place. He's all-pervading. Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva. Therefore His name is Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. He's everywhere. Electricity is everywhere. Only one who knows how to take the electricity... So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching and teaching, their effect you have to follow. Then our life will be successful. We don't manufacture ideas. That is not wanted. And if they... They have manufactured the ideas. The Hindus, samudra (Hindi) jānāsi (Hindi) prātikūlyam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (Hindi) Foolish theories. Just see. As soon as you cross over the Bay of Bengal or Indian Ocean, you become immediately fallen.



Indian man: You become an outcaste. (laughs)



Prabhupāda: That's all. Our Madan Mohan Ballabha, he was invited Round Table conference. He took so much Ganges earth. He was mixing that Ganges earth with water. He's going for political purposes, and showing a... What is called? Hobby. This is not that. Now this movement is there, and unless we do it very sincerely and vigorously, it cannot be pushed on.(Hindi conversation) ....daily five lakhs, six lakhs (Hindi) ...Life Member. We have Life Member?



Dhanañjaya: In London. London's about fifteen hundred.



Haṁsadūta: Where? In London, Amsterdam, and Montreal. We're making Life Members everywhere now.



Indian man: How many Life Members in India? Must have at least ten thousand.



Prabhupāda: No. Indian, everyone should become a Life Member.



Indian man: Certainly. Everybody devotees.



Prabhupāda: And it is India's duty that everyone should take up such a cultural movement. That is India's glory. I have given one statement, I do not know whether it is published. The, some of the places, they are against me. So where is that copy? Have you got that copy?



Haṁsadūta: I don't know which.



Prabhupāda: Hmm. I've given one statement...



Indian man: Mahārāja, have you sent that reply to that questionnaire which was sent to you from Bhavan's Journal? Bhavan's Journal sent you a questionnaire.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. I have sent that answer. Eighty-four pages. For twenty*-one questions I have answered eighty-four pages.



Indian man: I think in Delhi you must call a press conference.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) [break] ...by seeing him, if we remember Kṛṣṇa, he is Vaiṣṇava. He never said that you must be born in a brāhmaṇa family or... No. If by seeing him only one remembers Kṛṣṇa, then that person is Vaiṣṇava.



Dhanañjaya: So couldn't that point be expressed in the government somehow?



Prabhupāda: Well, emergency government. They can do anything immediately.



*Indian man: Sir, these nationalities, I mean... (break*-tape has short conversation later) (Hindi) ...the good wife, good mother. Good wife, one is a good mother. Tyaktvā su-dustaja rājya-lakṣmīm dharmiṣṭha. (Hindi) (end)





770204AR.CAL

Arrival Lecture

-

Calcutta, February 4, 1977



Prabhupāda:



*śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-

*śṛṅgāra*-tan-mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktaṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



So who has decorated?



Abhirāma: Pūrṇaprajña dāsa.



Purnaprajñā: My wife and I...



*Prabhupāda: Very good. So this is the injunction of the śāstra, śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā **. They... She should not stand before the Deity. Little back.



Hari-śauri: Ask her to stand to the left of the Deities.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali) So this is the duty of all disciples under the guidance of the spiritual master, to decorate. Śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra **. Śṛṅgāra means decoration. Amongst the various paraphernalia of worshiping the Lord, the śṛṅgāra is very essential, śṛṅgāra and tan-mandira-mārjanādi, and cleansing the temple. The more you cleanse the temple, the more you decorate the Deity, more your heart becomes cleansed and you become spiritually decorated. So cleanliness is next to godliness. And after cleansing, taking bath regularly, keeping the temple very neat and clean and worshiping the Deity, dressing, decorating, ornamenting... These are the general process. So if we follow the process regularly, then we gradually become advanced in spiritual consciousness, material world and spiritual world. Material world means dirty things and spiritual world means clean.



So the living entities, they are called taṭasthā-śakta. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. God has many potencies. They have been divided into three primarily: external, internal, and marginal; bahiraṅgā-śakti, antaraṅga-śakti, and taṭasthā-śakti. So we jīvas, living entities, we are also another energy of Kṛṣṇa, in between the material and spiritual. So if we like we can remain in the spiritual world; *if we like, we can remain in the material world. If we remain in the material world, then, temporary, we enjoy happiness or distress. There is no happiness. Sometimes we take distress as happiness. Actually there is no happiness, because however happy you may be, you have to change this body. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. So this happiness... Suppose this life I am a king. Maybe for few years, but I have to change this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. So there is no happiness. Suppose you arrange very nicely to live here very happily in this world, but you'll not be allowed to live. You'll not be allowed. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. So long we live, there is happiness or distress. There is no happiness. To get happiness we have to go through distress. Anyway, mixed up happiness or distress, even if you make nice arrangement, but all of a sudden you'll be asked to get out. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Therefore we should not be attracted with this happiness, so-called happiness of material world. Aśāśvatam. Even if you think you are happy, you'll not be allowed to stay here.

*So we must know all these principles of our life, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the guide. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are guided by Kṛṣṇa personally. Everyone can be guided. Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction to the whole human society in the Bhagavad*-gītā. So we can take advantage of it. Kṛṣṇa is guiding personally. So there are two ways of accepting Kṛṣṇa's guidance. You accept the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā, then you'll be happy. If you don't accept, then you will go back again to the cycle of birth and death. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. So mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani is not good life. Mṛtyu, mṛtyu... Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. If you take birth, then you'll have to die, and if you have to die, you have to take birth again. This is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma. So this is not very good business. That intelligence is lacking. We are simply trying to adjust things for a few years, but we are not taking account of our real life. Our real life is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. That is real life, that we do not die. But our brain is so dull that we have accepted janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9] as usual thing. But death can be checked. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you so desire, you can stop it. There is no difficulty. Very easy. And that is also explained by Kṛṣṇa: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And He's explaining Himself. What is the difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, Parabrahman, the greatest, and we are anu, very small. Our knowledge is very small, limited. It is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa, but He is explaining Himself for our little understanding. Whatever we have got capacity to understand, that Kṛṣṇa is explaining. So if you simply take Kṛṣṇa's word, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Here is a chance. This Deity worship... When we see the form of Kṛṣṇa, naturally our mind is impressed that "Here is Kṛṣṇa; here is Rādhārāṇī; *here is Jagannātha." So if you come daily and see Kṛṣṇa at least once*-man-manā bhava mad-bhaktoḥ-where is the difficulty? But people are so much engrossed. Their education is so low grade. Just now, when I was coming from Bhuvaneśvara, the next room, next apartment, was occupied by some young men. As they were talking, it appeared they were educated, medical practitioner. They were addressing amongst themselves, "Dr. this," "Dr. this..." [break]

*So our mission is para*-upakāra, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. This para-upakāra mission was entrusted to the Indians. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]-"to the human beings," not to the cats and dogs. Unfortunately, we have become like cats and dogs. We do not take the responsibility of an Indian. It is the duty of the Indian. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

*bhārata bhumite haila manuṣya*-janma yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*All over the world they are in darkness. They do not know what is the value of life. So in India, anyone born, he can make his life successful. We have got Bhagavad*-gītā and all Vedic literatures. By learning, by practicing, we can make our life perfectly and then distribute the knowledge. This is India's business. Unfortunately, they have been conquered by the illusion of māyā, and they are not interested. They are becoming drunkard and talking all nonsense. So you have come, kindly. Of course, Bhārata means the whole planet. Anyway, don't deviate. Just try to do some good to the human society by awakening them to spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The method is very simple: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. But it is para-upakāra. That is human life, para-upakāra, to do good to others, not to exploit. That is not human life.



*So you have very kindly joined this movement. You have not joined this movement for your poverty. You are not poverty*-stricken. Sometimes people join this movement for poverty-stricken. But you are not belonging to that. You have voluntarily joined. So don't be disappointed. There is now opposition, but don't be disappointed. Kṛṣṇa will give you protection. Try to go on with this para-upakāra movement. Maybe because it is a fight against atheism, so some of our soldiers may fall down. But that should not discourage us. We must go on fighting with this atheistic civilization and try to push (this) Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*Thank you very much. (Hindi conversation*-break followed by morning walk excerpt:) ...lords, they're selling their property.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.



Gargamuni: What did Mr. Bajoriya say about the Purī House?



Prabhupāda: Practically he avoided.



Gargamuni: Yes. I saw that. When you asked the question I could see in his face. (end)



Initiations





680310IN.SF

Initiation Lecture

-

San Francisco, March 10, 1968



*Prabhupāda: The meaning of this mantra is apavitraḥ pavitro vā. Apavitraḥ means unclean and pavitra means clean. So anyone who may be unclean or clean, it doesn't matter. Apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. Sarva means all. Avastha means condition. "In whatever condition one may be, either unclean or clean," yaḥ, "anyone who," smaret, "remembers," puṇḍarīkākṣam... Puṇḍarīkākṣam means Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's another name is puṇḍarīkākṣam. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam, sa: "That person," bahya, "externally," abhyantaram, "internally," śuciḥ, "becomes at once purified." Śrī*-viṣṇu śrī-viṣṇu śrī-viṣṇu. Puṇḍarīkākṣam, Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. So this is the remembrance. Śrī-viṣṇu, namaḥ śrī-viṣṇu śrī-viṣṇu.



*So this initiation means purification. In this material world we are all impure. Because we are impure, therefore death, disease, old age, and pangs of birth overcome us. Just like in diseased condition*-we have experienced-there are so many painful conditions, similarly, in this materialistic way of life these symptoms, birth, death, disease, and old age, they are different kinds of miseries. The rascals, materialists, they are thinking that they're making advance, but they have no solution for these things. The solution is by tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some rules and regulations to purify him. That is called tapasya. Just like in diseased condition, one has to voluntarily accept the rules and regulations enforced by the physician: "You should not eat this. You should not do this. You should not go out. You should take rest. You should not, should not, should not," so many. Similarly, if we want to purify ourselves, then four principles of purificatory process, namely illicit sex life and intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling, these four things must be...

*These four things are paraphernalia of your civilization. In the western... Not only western, eastern, everywhere. The Kali*-yuga is spreading very rapidly, and wherever the Kali-yuga is very prominent, these four items are very prominent: unrestricted sex life, gambling, and meat-eating, and intoxication. When people become practiced to all this nonsense, they think, "Oh, what is wrong there?" But it is the most abominable part of human civilization. Anyone who are indulging in these four things, they cannot imagine where is he and how he will be free from this conditional life. So this is the purificatory process. So as you are being initiated, initiation means beginning of your purificatory process. So if we are serious about purification, then we must follow these four principles, if you want to be cured.

*Of course, this chanting of hari*-nāma will make you purified. That's nice. But just like this fire I am going to ignite. This is dry firewood. But if I help it, to keep it dry, then the fire will be very nice, blazing fire. But if I pour water on it, then it will be difficult to ignite. Similarly, the fire of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will keep you always progressing, but at the same time, if we also voluntarily do not pour water on that fire, then it will be nice. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness or chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will keep you progressive. At the same time, voluntarily, if you do not commit all these nonsenses, then it will be very nice. And if you continue this water pouring, then... Just like a man is taking medicine at the same time doing all nonsense. Then his disease will not be cured, or may take very, very long time. So we should not be irresponsible in that way because life is very short. We do not know when death is coming, especially in these days. We are moving in the street, we are moving by plane, we are moving... Every step, there is danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. It is a place of danger. So our life... We should consider this human form of life, especially Kṛṣṇa conscious life, is very important life. We should not be inattentive. So we should be very careful. Kṛṣṇa will, of course, protect you, but at the same time, we have got consciousness. We should also take care that before the next death comes, we must be fully prepared for being transferred to Kṛṣṇaloka. And it is very simple thing. If you keep yourself constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that's the only thing. Then you are sure to be going, transferred next life. As I was explaining last night, simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa...

*Kṛṣṇa is not like us. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. How He is Supreme Personality of Godhead? That He proved when, while He was present. The history is there. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's activities, Kṛṣṇa's wisdom, lecture, Bhagavad-gītā-everything is there. They are the proofs. There is a very nice verse by Yamunācārya that there are authentic literatures, there are authentic personalities, and they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Authentic literatures, they give proof that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And by His wonderful activities we can understand that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But still, the atheistic rascal will not accept. You see? There are sufficient proofs. Just like Arjuna says, "Kṛṣṇa, You are the paraṁ brahma. It is not because I am Your friend I am flattering You. You have been accepted by authorities like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, in all scriptures, and You are personally explaining Yourself." So there is no doubt about it, but the demons, in spite of all this-dog's obstinacy*-they will not accept. So let them go to hell. So far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His body is eternal, full of bliss, and full of knowledge, end sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. If we simply remember that Kṛṣṇa is like that, and as soon as we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, we remember Kṛṣṇa, and we understand that He is the Supreme Personality.

This very consciousness will lead you. It is not very difficult. It is very easy, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. And those who have taken already, they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and they are making progress both, I mean to say... Their health is improving; their mind is becoming very nice. So you will be also feeling. There is no need of talking. You will yourself feel, but you must follow. And there are ten kinds of offenses. That also, you should avoid. And these rules and regulations. Now chant mantras. (end)



680324IN.SF

Initiation Ceremony of Viṣṇujana

-

San Francisco, March 24, 1968



Prabhupāda: Nama.



Viṣṇujana: Nama.



Prabhupāda: Om.



Viṣṇujana: Om.



*Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu (repeats each word) pādāya kṛṣṇa preṣṭhāya bhū*-tale śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine. You chant beginning from here, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. Then begin again, another. In this way, there are 108. Come this side. Don't cross. Then again chant on this side from this way to this way. Your name is Viṣṇujana. Viṣṇujana. V-i-s-n-u-j-a-n-a. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break-japa-break) You have not brought? All right. [break] The brahminical qualifications is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: satyam śauca śama dama titikṣa ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Those who are actually brāhmaṇas, they must be truthful, always clean, inside and outside. Truthful, clean, and controlling the senses, śama dama, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, controlling the mind; śama dama titikṣa, tolerance, titikṣa, tolerance; ārjavam, simplicity; and jñānam, must be profoundly wise; vijñānam, practical application in life; *jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, full faith in scriptures and in God, or Kṛṣṇa, āstikyam. Brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam: [Bg. 18.42] "These are natural duties, or work, of a brāhmaṇa."



*And in the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find in another place, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. "These four classes of classification of the society, it is made by Me." That means this classification of society in the human society, that is made by God. What is that classification? The brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, and the śūdra. It is not the name, but it is guṇa-karma. Brāhmaṇa means quality and work. Kṣatriya means quality and work. And vaiśya means quality and work. There is no question of birthright. It is a false proposition that a brāhmaṇa's son becomes brāhmaṇa. No, not necessarily. If he properly becomes initiated under the guidance of a spiritual master, then he is brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, if he has acquired the qualities of a śūdra, then he should be considered as a śūdra. These are the śāstric injunctions. And this classification is all over the world. Don't think that it is Indian or Vedic system. No. In every country, in every place, in every planet, these four divisions are there.

*Brāhmaṇas means those who are interested in spiritual life, they are called brāhmaṇas, intelligent class. They are called intelligent class, because unless one is intelligent, he will simply consider that this body is he, identification of the body. That is foolishness. Brāhmaṇas means brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. One who knows that "I am ahaṁ brahmāsmi," and he has actually realized that "I am not this body, I am pure spirit self." It is not the question of Hindu, Muslim. Anyone. Anyone who knows this knowledge, that "I am the self," and acts in that way, he is a brāhmaṇa. So these initiation formalities are there. You are instructed, you are guided, but you have to act. Unless you act, then the same thing as in India*-the so-called brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas are degraded. There will be no meaning. So guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. You have to stick to the brahminical qualities, and at the same time work. Brahma-karma. Brahman is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the last word of Brahman. So you have to engage yourself, brahma-karma, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And exhibit your quality, that you are truthful, you are controlling control over the senses, control over the mind, and you are simple, and you are tolerant. Because as soon as you take up spiritual life, the whole class conducted by māyā, they will be against you. That is māyā's influence. Somebody will criticize. Somebody will do this, somebody will do that, but we shall... We have to become tolerant. This is the disease of this material world. If anyone becomes spiritually advanced, the agents of māyā will criticize. So therefore you have to become tolerant. And simple, simplicity. Ārjavam, titikṣa ārjavam, and jñāna, and you must be fully equipped with knowledge. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is there. Now we are publishing other books also, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So read them. These three or four books, if you read, you become fully qualified with knowledge. And vijñānam, and apply them in your practical life. And āstikyam, in full faith of the procedures and in Kṛṣṇa. That will make you successful. All right. Get up. (japa) [break] Come forward. Now you keep your mālikā, mālā, down. You have to offer it.(?) (knocking noises) Take little, this. Nama.

Devotees: Nama.



Prabhupāda: Apavitraḥ. Not like that. Do like this.



Devotee: Each can take a little in their right hand.



Prabhupāda: Each time, when I say "svāhā" three times, you'll..., Little bit. (devotees chant responsively)



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



*Svāhā. Vande aham śrī*-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalam... (ceremony continues-kīrtana) (end)





680506IN.BOS

Brāhmaṇa Initiation Lecture with Professor O'Connell

-

Boston, May 6, 1968,

(Glenville Ave. Temple)



*Prabhupāda: We are very glad to receive Professor O'Connell in this auspicious meeting. And it will be very nice, because he's studying the process of Caitanya philosophy. And this ceremony is one of the functions in devotional service. We have got a big book... I think, Professor O'Connell, you have secured that book, Hari*-bhakti-vilāsa. Have you secured that book?



O'Connell: I have the book. I'm yet to be a professor or even get my degree beyond the... I have the book.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. So that Hari-bhakti-vilāsa is written by Sanātana Gosvāmī in the name of Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. Because Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī was a very young boy, and Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were very elderly. But because all the six Gosvāmīs happened to be direct disciples of Lord Caitanya, so Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, although very young, he was treated as younger brother of Sanātana Gosvāmī. So this book was actually written by Sanātana Gosvāmī, but it was published or dedicated to Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. In this book the rules and regulation of the Vaiṣṇavas are described*-of the brahmacārīs, the students; of the gṛhasthas, householders; vānaprastha, retired men; *and sannyāsī, renounced order*-how gṛhastha should live, how brahmacārī should live, how vānaprastha should live, how sannyāsīs should live. All the... It is called Vaiṣṇava smṛti.



*Śruti and smṛti. Śruti means Vedic literature, which is traditionally, from time immemorial, it is learned simply by hearing from authoritative sources. Just like in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam in the First Canto, first verse, it is said, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. The original authority of Vedic literature, Lord Brahma. He was instructed about Vedic knowledge by Lord Kṛṣṇa. And he imparted Vedic knowledge to the world. So he was the first creature, living creature, after creation. So there was nobody to give him initiation because he is the only living creature at that time. So the Lord Himself initiated. How He initiated? Hṛdā, through the heart. Because He is situated in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He is, the Lord is seated in everyone's heart. So he initiated. Tene brahma hṛdā. Hṛdā means "through the heart." And that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, that buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam, "I give instruction, buddhi-yogam, the yoga principle of intelligence or bhakti-yoga." Whom? Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. One who is engaged with love and affection in devotional service, to him He gives instruction.

*Not to all. Samo 'haṁ sarva*-bhūteṣu [Bg. 9.29]. God is equal to everyone. That is a fact. So far eating, sleeping, mating, these four principles are concerned, God is giving everyone. Just like government provides maintenance, provision, even in the prison life. That is not very important thing for government. But education department or other higher cultural department, that is not for all. Similarly, although God is equal to everyone, he's especially inclined to the devotees. Ye tu bhajanti māṁ prītyā teṣu te mayi. Those who are engaged in devotional service, He's specially inclined to him. And to him he gives instruction from within. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām [Bg. 10.10]. Satata means always. Twenty-four hours, one who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to him He gives instruction from within because he's qualified. Others, instruction He's giving, but other is not obeying the instruction. Just like a man is ready to commit some sinful activities. He thinks, "Shall I do it?" From within, "No, no. Don't do it." Again he says, "Why not? Let me do it." In this way, when he insists, oh, then He says, "All right, do it. Do it." So the word that "Nothing can happen without the sanction of God," that is a fact. Nobody can act anything... Then the question is why a man acts sinfully? Why...? Does God give sanction for sinful action? Yes. When one insists that "I shall do it." "All right, do it. And suffer the consequences."

*So this purification process, according to Vaiṣṇava smṛti, ādau gurvāśrayaṁ tato sad*-dharma-pṛcchāt sādhu mārgāṇugamanam. In the beginning one has to accept a spiritual master, bona fide spiritual master. And who is bona fide spiritual master? That is also described in several Vedic scriptures. In the Upaniṣad it is said, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. One who has come down in disciplic succession and as a result of such authorized succession one has become fully, firmly convinced in Brahman. Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān, the same thing. Brahma-niṣṭham. He is transcendentally situated. So these things are there. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said that who requires a spiritual master? That is also said. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. One, let one surrender himself unto the spiritual master. Who is that one? Jijñāsuḥ. One who is inquisitive. What about inquisitiveness? Jijñā... śreya uttamam. The highest perfectional stage of life. If one is inclined what is transcendental life, what is spiritual life, what is perfection of life, if one is inclined to this subject matter, for him there is necessity of approaching a bona fide spiritual master.

*To accept a spiritual master is not a hobby. "Because everyone accepts some spiritual master, let me have also a spiritual master without following the instruction, without following the principles." That sort of acceptance of spiritual master is not required. He doesn't require to accept a spiritual master who is not inquisitive on transcendental subject matter. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Uttamam means... Ut means surpassing, and tamam means the darkness. This material world is darkness. And one who has transcended the darkness region and has come to the region of light... Jyotir gamaḥ tamasa mā, "Don't remain in this darkness. Go to the light." So that is called uttamam. Uttamam. Udgata tamaṁ yasmād. So questions, jijñāsuḥ, inquisitive, of transcendental matter. There are many things to inquire. Śrotavyādīni rājan. There is... in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam... There are many subject matter for inquiry and hearing. But one who is interested in hearing about the transcendental subject matter, ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29], the unlimited, infinite subject matter, for him a spiritual master is needed. Not for all. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21].

*And who is spiritual master? That is also stated. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. Śābde means the Vedic śruti, śruti. This is called śābda*-brahma. One who has learned both śruti and smṛti. Śruti means Vedas, and smṛti means books derived from Vedic knowledge. That is called smṛti. And Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī says in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, śruti smṛti...

*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pāñcarātriki*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*If one poses himself a great devotee, but does not follow the principles of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, and Nārada-pañcarātra, and the rules and regulation thereof, then his presentation as great devotee is simply disturbance. According to this Hari-bhakti-vilāsa and according to the direction of the Gosvāmīs in the Lord Caitanya's line, if one does not follow the principles of Vedas, principles of the smṛti or corollaries, Vedic literature... Just like Bhagavad-gītā is called smṛtiand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Mahā-purāṇa. So śruti, smṛti, purāṇādi [Brs. 1.2.101], and pāñcarātriki-vidhim, Nārada-pañcarātra. Without following the rules and regulation of these scriptures, if one poses himself as devotee of Kṛṣṇa, aikāntikī harer bhaktiḥ-harer means Lord, bhakti, devotional service*-he is a disturbance to the society.



*So the general rule is that if one is inquisitive... Just as we follow in our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we ask everyone to come. We don't make any imposition that with such and such qualification one can sit here or hear. No. All these students who are initiated, they know we don't impose anything. "You must be such and such, you must be such an such educated, you must be Hindu or you must be brāhmaṇa, or you must be white or black..." No such restriction. Anyone. This is universal. Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone is welcome. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And hear something from Bhagavad*-gītā. So following this principle, if one is a little more interested, then he offers himself. "Swamijī, I shall be initiated." So if I see that that boy or that girl is sincere and is following, then we say that "You have to follow these four principles." What are these? Niṣiddhācāra. These are injunction by Lord Caitanya, that no illicit sex life, no intoxication, no, I mean to say, nonvegetarian dishes, and no gambling. These four principles. So they agree, and he is given initiation for chanting beads, Hare Kṛṣṇa, at least sixteen rounds daily. So if one follows the rules and regulation rigidly...

*And the next initiation is this dvijatvam. Dvijatvam means twice*-born. Twice-born one becomes immediately when he approaches a spiritual master, but the sacred thread is offered as the symbol that he has a spiritual master. Just like there is some phase, there is some degree. So this sacred thread is offered after one year. One who has followed strictly the rules and regulation and chanted sixteen rounds Hare Kṛṣṇa at least, so he is given the second chance. The third chance is to offer renunciation. If he wants to completely in the service of the Lord, there is sannyāsa. Just like the other day we were discussing, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī [Bg. 6.1]. Of course, these are formal regulative principles. Real life is within, how much one is sincere in the service of the Lord. So according to rigid class of Hindus, this sacred thread ceremony, they say it is to be offered only to the person who are born in the brāhmaṇa family. Perhaps you have studied all these things while you were in India. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says no. There is no question of birthright that because one is born in the brāhmaṇa family, therefore he can become brāhmaṇa.

Of course, the Vedic regulation is that unless one is born by a brāhmaṇa father, he cannot be initiated according to the Vedic regulation. But to take birth in the brāhmaṇa family, that is now oblivion, at the present moment. Because in the brāhmaṇa family formerly, not only in the brāhmaṇa; kṣatriya family and vaiśya family also, there was a garbhādhāna ceremony. Garbhādhāna ceremony means when the father goes to beget a child, there is a ceremony like this. It is not a secret service. It is open secret that "Today he is going to have sex life with his wife for begetting a nice child." It is not sexual enjoyment. It is to beget a nice child. So there is a ceremony which is called garbhādhāna ceremony, pregnancy ceremony. So at the present moment this ceremony is not observed. Even in rigid families they have already given up. And the śāstra injunction is, as soon as one gives up this ceremony, garbhādhāna ceremony, he at once falls down to the classification of a śūdra. The whole family, no more. Because who knows by whom this child is born? Nobody knows whether he's a brāhmaṇa's son or a śūdra's son or a rascal's son or a paṇḍita's son. Because there is so much freedom.

*So kalau śūdra-sambhava. Therefore the general enunciation is that in this age everyone has to be accepted as born-śūdra. But this principle is accepted always, by birth everyone is śūdra. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born śūdra. Then? Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means this saṁskāra. This saṁskāra... By gradual process of cultivation of knowledge, of behavior, of rules and regulations, one becomes a dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means twice-born. The first birth is by the father and mother, and the second birth is by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. At that time, the second birth means mother is the Vedic knowledge and father is the spiritual master. So Sanātana Gosvāmī says, because he has enunciated this rule for the so-called rigid brāhmaṇas, they say, "Without taking birth in a brāhmaṇa family there is no possibility of one's becoming a brāhmaṇa." But Bhagavad-gītā does not say like that. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. "These four principles of caste-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra*-I have created that division." Now it is creation of God. Nobody can nullify it.

*So that division is everywhere. Not only in the India or Hindu society or... No. Everywhere. Guṇa*-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ, by classification of quality and work. Here also the same thing is there. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavata also confirms this by Nārada Muni, when he describes about these four principles of social division, he says, yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ syād varṇābhivyañjakam. Now there is classification who is a brāhmaṇa, who is a kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, the qualities. Because according to quality, the divisions shall be there. Now in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the brāhmaṇa's quality, the vaiśya's quality, the śūdra's quality. So Bhāgavata also confirms that yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ syāt. The symptoms of a person qualifying himself to become a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra, that is the main principle. If that symptom is found elsewhere, he should be accepted in that classification. Suppose a man is born in a śūdra family or less than a śūdra family, but if his qualities are just like brāhmaṇa, then he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. That is Bhāgavata's...

*So this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a manufacturing process of brāhmaṇa, Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means surpassing the brahminical stage. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. One who has realized Brahman, he is called brāhmaṇa. After realization of Brahman, then realization of Paramātmā, then realization of Bhagavān. And one who comes to the stage of understanding Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, he is called Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava means he is already a brāhmaṇa. Because in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



The devotional service begins when one has already realized Brahman. Because to whom rendering devotional service? To the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavān. And Bhagavān is the last word in the Absolute Truth.



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases. First impersonal Brahman realization, the localized Paramātmā realization, and then the last word is to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



One who has accepted that Vāsudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is Vāsudeva. So mahātmā, he is the greatest soul. And Bhāgavata confirms,



vāsudeve bhagavati

*bhakti*-yogaḥ-prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

[SB 1.2.7]



*If one is engaged in the transcendental loving service to Vāsudeva, then automatically the stage of Brahman realization automatically becomes revealed. So this ceremony is just according to the strict principles of Vaiṣṇava smṛti. And today... And Sanātana Gosvāmī confirms this, that yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti kāṁsyaṁ rasa*-vidhānataḥ. By chemical process, one can turn the bell metal into gold. That is alchemistry, that bell metal, if it is treated with mercury properly, then it can become gold. Formerly people knew it. So the example is given that as bell metal, a base metal, can be turned into gold by a chemical process, similarly... (break-end)





680724IN.MON

Initiation of Jayapatāka Dāsā

-

Montreal, July 24, 1968



Prabhupāda: You begin from this big bead, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, and then after finishing, begin second. In this way, there are 108, one, two, three. Come to this point, then begin from this point. You are following? Then come to this. In this way, one, two, three, four, sixteen rounds, at least. If you can increase more, that's all right. Otherwise sixteen rounds. Your spiritual name is Jayapatāka. Bow down. You know the mantra?



*oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



Jayapatāka:



*oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



Prabhupāda: That's all. Take this. You have got that copy of these ten kinds of offenses? Where is that? Bring it. Bring it. Now in order to chant... What is that? You read. What is this copy?



Devotee: Prayers, different prayers.



*Prabhupāda: Prayers. That's all. There are ten kinds of offenses in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are three stages of this chanting process. The first stage is offensive stage, and the second stage is light stage, and the third stage is liberated stage. So generally in the beginning we are almost in the offensive stage but we shall try to avoid the ten kinds of offenses as it will be explained. You have got printed copy. You take it. The first offense is śruti-śāstra*-nindanam. No scripture of the world should be blasphemed. Śruti, especially Vedas. Śruti means Vedas. Actually, Vedas are the original scripture. Gradually many other scriptures have developed. They are called smṛti. Śruti smṛti.



*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

pāñcarātriki vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*This is the definition given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, that to become a devotee of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, one has to follow the principles of śruti and smṛti, and pāñcarātriki*-vidhi. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, there is no Vedic vidhi. Because Vedic vidhi is lost. Formerly, initiation was offered to a person who is actually born of a brāhmaṇa father. Otherwise... Or the higher caste, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, and the vaiśyas, they were offered initiation, and the śūdras were not offered. That was the Vedic system. But in this age the śāstra says that kalau śūdra sambhava. In this age of Kali practically there is no more any brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya. Maybe by name, but in qualification they are not existing. Everyone is supposed to be śūdra. So in Kali-yuga the pāñcarātriki-vidhi is accepted. The pāñcarātriki-vidhi is also Vedic vidhi, corollary, given by Nārada Mahāmuni. But it is accepted by the Vedic followers, pāñcarātriki-vidhi.



*Pāñcarātriki*-vidhi means if any one has a little inclination for spiritual development, he should be given chance. This initiation means to give chance. The Bhāgavata says that kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ [SB 2.4.18]. These are the list of the caṇḍālas or less than the śūdras. So Bhāgavata gives open road for everyone. Even one is kirāta... Kirāta means... Generally they are called aborigines, or the very black aborigines living in the jungles, they are called kirāta. In our country it is called hanta (?). So anyway, Hun, Hun a class of people in the hill side of north Arctic. They are called Huns. So kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā... There are very great list of the caṇḍālas, less than the śūdras. The Bhāgavata says ye 'nye ca pāpā, not these classes, even less than them, even they are born in the family of sinful tribe, they can be also purified. Śudhyanti, they can be also purified. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā śudhyanti. They can be purified by association of Vaiṣṇava. Yad-apa, yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ. Upāśraya means just like a person who is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and if anyone takes shelter of such devotee, he can be purified. This is called paramparā system.

*So for this Bhāgavata*-dharma, there is no restriction. Anywhere, any part of the world, they can accept this Bhāgavata-dharma. On that principle in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life also He accepted many Muhammadans also as His disciples. Just like Ṭhākura Haridāsa, he was born in a Muhammadan family, and He took many Pathans as His disciples when He was coming back from Vṛndāvana. So in this system, disciplic system of Vedic process, there is no restriction. Anyone can come. And this is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā also. Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Never mind. Even one is born in a family which is considered to be sinful. Striya śūdrās tathā vaiśya. Even woman, the śūdra, and the mercantile class of men, anyone. Mām... Ye 'nye ca pāpā.

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striya śūdrās tathā vaiśyās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



They can also be elevated to the highest platform of perfection by the process of initiation. And kiṁ punar brāhmaṇaḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33]. Even such persons can be elevated, and what to speak of the brāhmaṇas, bhaktas, devotees, and rājarṣaya, and great kṣatriyas. There is nothing to speak about them. Even these people can be elevated.



*So this Bhāgavata*-dharma is very nice, it is universal, it can be accepted by everyone. Unfortunately, so long there was no preaching of this Bhāgavata-dharma. Now, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, the Bhāgavata-dharma is now being expanded in the Western countries. I am very glad that boys and girls from this part of the world, they are also embracing and they are nicely chanting and following the rules and regulations. So I think Kṛṣṇa will be very... So initiation means this is the beginning. Now you have to follow the rules and regulations. What are the rules and regulations? Only four principles. Don't have any illicit sex life. Don't have any food besides prasādam or foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa does not eat anything beyond the vegetarian group. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. So you cannot offer Kṛṣṇa anything beyond this scope. So there is no question of nonvegetarian diet, including fish, eggs, even onions, and lentils, what is called? Lentils? That dahl, pulses? So you have got from your Godbrother, you will know. And you are eating here Kṛṣṇa prasādam. And no gambling and no intoxication, including smoking, tea taking, coffee taking. No gambling, no intoxication. These four principles. No illicit sex life, no nonvegetarian diet, no gambling, and no intoxication. These four principles have to be followed and in the beginning the offenses. Where is...? You read the offenses. You haven't got?

So offenses are ten kinds of offenses. The first offense is to deride at the Vedic literature or scriptures. Satāṁ nindā. And those who are preaching God consciousness, never mind in any part of the world. Those who are preaching God consciousness. In your country, Christian... Not in your country. Of course, it was preached in Central Asia, but now Christianism is spread all over. So Lord Jesus Christ, he also preached God consciousness. And Mohammed, Hazrat Mohammed, he also preached God consciousness. Similarly, in India there was several ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, God consciousness they preached.

*So Lord Buddha, he, of course, did not preach directly God consciousness, but we accept him as the incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta*-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. He had to preach amongst the atheist class of men who were too much addicted with animal slaughter and he wanted to stop animal slaughter. That was his main business. So I've several times explained. Therefore he rejected Vedic authority. Because in the Vedic authority there is recommendation, under certain condition, of animal sacrifice. But he wanted to stop completely animal sacrifice. Therefore superficially he said, he denied the authority of Vedic ritual. Because if he accepted Vedic rituals then he could not preach this ahiṁsā paramo dharma. So that is a great story. Anyway we accept, we Vaiṣṇavas, we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation. That is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. So indirectly the Buddhists are worshiping God. They are denying, there is no existence of God but they are accepting the incarnation of God.

*So anywhere the four prime religions of the world, namely Hinduism, Christianism, Mohammedanism or Buddhism, directly or indirectly, they are accepting God. And without accepting God there is no meaning of religion. That is not religion. According to Bhāgavata, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, what this dharma, religion means, the codes given by God. That's all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Now Kṛṣṇa, in the beginning said that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge. "I come, descend, in order to establish religion." Now again at the end He says sarva-dharmān parityajya. He came to establish religion. And in the end He says that "Give up all sorts of religion." What does it mean? That means religion means surrendering unto God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. If there is no such principle... Surrendering unto God, that is religion. Not the rituals. Rituals are superficial. The Bhāgavata says sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. You follow any kind of religion, that doesn't matter. But the test will be how much you have developed God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the test. If that is lacking, then you have simply wasted your time.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



If by following the ritualistic principles of any kind of religion, if one has not developed God consciousness or love of God, then it is simply waste of time, laboring. That's all. So gradually people are coming to the stage that God is dead. They have developed so much love for God that they want to see God is dead. That means they have not followed any kinds of religion. This is all useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Simply they have wasted. God cannot be dead. It is crazy proposal. How God can be...? If we are praying to God, "O God, give us our daily bread," and the bread is supplied to us, how God is dead? God cannot be dead. So these are crazy proposals. Don't be attached to all these nonsense proposal. God is existing. He is nitya nityānām. Just like we are existing, similarly God is existing. And He is the chief amongst the eternals. We are also eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit.



*So these are Vedic injunctions. God is there, I am here, God is eternal, I am eternal, He is sac*-cid-vigrahaḥ, I am also, at the present moment, my body is material. But when I am liberated I also become sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So these things gradually you'll learn from Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. Now this Hare Kṛṣṇa, this chanting process is cleansing your heart. As you advance in cleansing your heart, so God becomes revealed unto You. God is sitting with you. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa is sitting in everyone's heart. Simply we can see Him as soon as the heart is clean. Śṛṇvatām... And God will help you.

*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



As soon as with devotion and faith you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, God will help you. Kṛṣṇa will help you from within to cleanse your heart so that you will be able to see things as they are.



*So we should avoid blaspheming the persons who have preached God consciousness all over the world. We should not deprecate the value of scriptures. And the most obstinate sinful activity is to act sinfully on the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because it is said that as soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa you become freed from all sinful activities. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa name. Absolute. So if somebody thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, therefore I can continue committing all kinds of sinful activities," that is the greatest... Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhir. Anyone who commits sinful activities... I have already explained the four kinds of sinful activities you should avoid. But if you think that you are chanting, therefore there will be no reaction of sinful activities, that is the greatest sin. Greatest offense. Never. Don't commit any sinful activities. And sāmyaṁ śubha-kriyā api pramādaḥ. This is another great offense. That don't accept this chanting as something auspicious activity. It is transcendental to auspicious and inauspicious activities. It is a vibration from the spiritual sky which will attract you gradually to the spiritual sky, beyond this material sky.

*'Vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ. Paras tasmād tu bhāva anya. As you get information from the Bhagavad*-gītā, there is another nature which is called spiritual nature and the devotees are trying, all the transcendentalists... Some are trying to merge into the spiritual existence only, and we devotees, we want to keep individuality and want to become associate with the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. So gradually you can learn it from the lectures and the books and with association with your Godbrothers and sisters. So this is your initiation. Take it very seriously. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa very faithfully and your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



680726IN.MON

Initiation of Satyabhāmā Dāsī and

Gāyatrī Initiation of Devotees Going to London

-

Montreal, July 26, 1968



Prabhupāda: ...auspicious day because it is all arrangement of His Divine Grace Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, my (Prabhupāda's voice chokes up) beloved spiritual master. He is seeing. He had a great desire to preach Lord Caitanya's message in the Western world. And I am sure he will be pleased to see so many young boys and girls are seriously engaged in preaching the gospel of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is my success.



So, His Divine Grace, my spiritual master, somehow or other liked me, that I should take up this responsibility. And on the first day I met him, I was at (that) time a very young man, a nationalist, and engaged in a very responsible office. So one of my friends casually took me. I did not like to go. But I am very much thankful to that friend, who is still living in Calcutta, that he forcibly took me to His Divine Grace. I was reluctant to see because in our house my father used to receive so many sannyāsīns, but I was not very much satisfied with their dealings. So I thought that Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja might be a similar man. So what business I have got to see him? But this friend took me forcibly, that "Why not see the man?"

*So I went on his request, and I was so profited. So on the first visit he asked me that "Educated boys like you, you should go to foreign countries and preach the gospel of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There is great necessity." So I replied that "We are foreign*-dominated nation, India. Who will hear about our message?" Actually, at that time the foreigners were thinking Indians as very nonsignificant because in the face of so many independent nations, India was dependent. There was one poet, Bengali poet. He lamented that "Even uncivilized nations like China, Japan and Burmese..." Not Burma. Burma was also dependent. "They are independent, and only India is dependent on the Britishers." So anyway, my Guru Mahārāja, he convinced me that "Dependence, independence, they are temporary. But we are concerned with the eternal benefit of the human kind, and therefore you should take up this matter."

So I never thought that I will have to take up this matter by his order. Because it is... This incident took place in 1922, more than fifty years. So anyway, so I was officially initiated in 1933, just before three years of his passing away from this mortal world. So at the last moment also, just a fortnight before his passing away, he wrote me the same thing. I wrote him one letter and just he replied the same thing that "You should try to preach this gospel amongst the persons who are conversant in English language. That will be very nice for you." So I was dreaming sometimes that my Guru Mahārāja is calling me and I am leaving my home and going behind him. I was dreaming like that, and I was thinking, "Oh, I have to give up my home? My Guru Mahārāja wants me to give up my home life and take sannyāsa?" So I was thinking, "It is horrible. How can I leave my home?" This is called māyā. Of course, it's a long story, but incidentally I am speaking to you because you are my dear children. So I was thinking that "How can I take sannyāsa and leave my home, my children?" So that was a horrible thought for me, I tell you. I was thinking seriously, "Oh, I will have to take this course. Guru Mahārāja wants me." But actually I did not like to give up my home life. But Guru Mahārāja made me obliged to give up my home life. So now, by his order, or by his plan, I gave up my home life, I gave up a few children, but Guru Mahārāja is so kind that has given me so many nice children.

So by serving Kṛṣṇa, nobody becomes loser. This is my practical ex..., I mean, practical experience, nobody. So I am citing this example of my personal experience because... Just try to understand that before leaving my home was thinking that "I may be in great trouble." Especially when I left my home for your country in 1965 alone, the government would not allow me to take any money. I had only a few book and forty rupees, Indian forty rupees. So I came in New York in such condition, but by the grace of my spiritual master Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, and by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, everything happens by combined mercy of Kṛṣṇa and spiritual master.

*In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. There shall be combined mercy of Kṛṣṇa and guru. Then our mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be successful. This is the secret. Kṛṣṇa is always within you. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa knows everything of your purpose, and He gives you opportunity to work as you have decided. If you decide to enjoy this material world, Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how to become very nice businessman, nice politician, very nice cunning man so that you can earn money and enjoy senses. Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. So many people are becoming very great in the estimation of material life. From very poor man, they are becoming millionaires. How? They have got intelligence, certainly. Without intelligence they cannot improve. But that intelligence is also given by Kṛṣṇa. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "By Me, there is memory and by Me, there is forgetfulness." So how Kṛṣṇa is giving forgetfulness, also memory? That means according to my desire. If I want to forget Kṛṣṇa and I want to enjoy this material world, He will give me necessary intelligence so that I can forget Kṛṣṇa for good and I can enjoy this material world very nicely.

*It is not possible to enjoy this material world nicely. This is called illusion. Everyone is trying to enjoy this material world very nicely. That is illusion. There is no nice enjoyment. You can rise up to a very nice post, just like the President Kennedy. Oh, with great endeavor he rose up to that post, and all of a sudden he was shot down. So this material world is like that. You cannot have, I mean to say, undeterred, without any impediment, pleasure. No. Every step you want to enjoy material enjoyment and you have to face every step danger also. This is the process. So one who is intelligent, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Unless one is perfectly intelligent and perfectly cleansed, one cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So therefore guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. Kṛṣṇa is seated within everyone's heart. If we want Kṛṣṇa sincerely, and how we want Kṛṣṇa sincerely? That is the mercy of the spiritual master.

*Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He gives the instruction that "Give up all this nonsense, your material activities. Just surrender unto Me." But people are not very interested. Even open declaration by Kṛṣṇa, that "You just become surrendered unto Me. I will give you all protection from all sinful reaction. You just come to Me," but people still, they are so much attached to illusion, māyā, that they cannot do it. But the spiritual master, he is so kind that he is begging from door to door, from country to country, from town to town, "My dear ladies, my dear gentlemen, my dear boys, my dear girls, please take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So therefore he is doing very confidential service to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. He gives simply orders. But the spiritual master executes that order practically. Therefore spiritual master is so dear to Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhāgavata-prasādaḥ. So guru*-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151].

*So the idea is that whatever I have brought Kṛṣṇa consciousness message to your country, that is due to the grace of His Divine Grace, of my spiritual master, who is sitting here. And I am very glad that you have come here from San Francisco for your going to London mission. And in auspicious moment you have come so that there was going to be a ceremony, initiation ceremony. So it is all auspicious symptoms, and let us be situated firmly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and act this missionary work, spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. That will make our life successful, and those who will take up this line of activities, they will be also very happy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Anyone who will take this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be happy, and they will feel obliged to Me." That is stated in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, that "When people will take this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, in every city and every town, they will feel obliged to Me." Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu said like this. We have read in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

*So actually the world is feeling so much disturbed by the arrangement of..., misarrangement, not arrangement, misarrangement of the leaders of the society. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa or God. They are thinking that by material advancement they will be happy, but that is never possible. Just try to spread this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very easy and very fact. Everyone can accept. So on this occasion, when you have come here from San Francisco prepared to go to London, so my hearty welcome to you, and please do this missionary work very nicely and Kṛṣṇa will be pleased upon you. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ [Bg. 18.69]. Anyone who is trying to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the most dear friend of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to please Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who is trying to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is My most dear friend." Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ: [Bg. 18.69] "Nobody is so dear to Me as such person who is trying to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the world." So you are all pledged to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. So if you take up this work seriously, Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased upon you. Thank you very much. Now you come forward, those who are to be initiated. And today there will be thread ceremony for the students who have chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa for at least one year. So I think three or four. Mukunda, Gurudāsa, Śyāmasundara, you are prepared? And Umāpati, you are also prepared? Huh?

Umāpati: Well, am I also prepared?



Prabhupāda: No, means the thread ceremony? Yes. So you come forward. Sit down. One, two, three, four. And you also. You come. Girls, you also come. You'll have that mantra, Gāyatrī mantra. Sit down. [break]



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-presthāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(disciple repeats) So what is your name?



Satyabhāmā: Kate.



*Prabhupāda: Kate. So your name should be... Is there any name Satyabhāmā? Satyabhāmā? No. So her name, Satyabhāmā dāsī. S*-a-t-y-a-b-h-a-m-a. Satyabhāmā dāsī. So this is the process, you know, from, beginning from here, each bead, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. And there are ten kinds of offenses. While chanting, you should avoid ten kinds of offenses. So you will get the list. And summarily I can explain that satāṁ nindā. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person will never blaspheme any person, any religious leader, who is trying to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. In any country, in any religion, anyone who has tried to spread God consciousness to the people, they are all respectable persons. Those who are atheist, those who do not believe in God or those who personally declare that "I am God," we have nothing to do with such persons. But anyone in any country who accepts God as the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], such persons are respectable persons and we should offer our always respect to them. We have... Unnecessarily we do not want to criticize anyone. But when there is necessity, because we are preacher, it may be sometimes you'll be faced with opposite elements, so we have to criticize in that respect. Generally we don't praise or eulogize somebody or criticize somebody. That is not our business. Our business is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness, always thinking that we are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa.



*And śruti-śāstra*-nindanam. No scriptures of the world shall be decried. Any scripture which is preaching about God consciousness, that is bona fide. It may be in some scriptures information of God is not fully explained, but if the idea, target, is God, that is a scripture. So generally śruti-śāstra means Vedas, the books of knowledge. So one should not go beyond the books of knowledge, just like we are studying Bhagavad-gītā. So śruti-śāstra-nindanam. Nobody should criticize or malinterpret the statement in the scripture.

*And artha-vādaḥ. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare*-this should not be interpreted because this is chanting. Hare means addressing the energy of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is Lord Himself. So we are addressing, "O energy of Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, O the supreme enjoyer, and Hare, the same energy, spiritual energy." Our prayer is "Please engage me in Your service." We are all engaged in some sort of service. There is no doubt about it. But we are suffering. By rendering service to māyā, we are suffering. The māyā means the service which we offer to somebody, that somebody is not satisfied; *and you are also offering service*-we are not satisfied. He is not satisfied with you; you are not satisfied with him. This is called māyā. Just like recently there was postal strike. This is most important department of the state. The state is offering them salary to the best capacity; still, the postmen, they are not satisfied. And they are offering service to the state; the state is also not satisfied. So māyā's service is like that. You go on throughout whole life. There are many examples.

*Just like in your country, in our country, President Kennedy, he wanted to give service to the country, but the people were not satisfied. Somebody killed him. Gandhi, whole life he engaged himself to the service of the country, but he was killed by his countrymen. This is called māyā, that you offer service somebody*-he is not satisfied; *you are not satisfied. Nobody is satisfied. Therefore one should be intelligent, that "What kind of service I am rendering?" The man who I am... In the family, suppose a gentleman*-throughout his life he has served the family-asked his wife, "Are you satisfied?" "Oh, what you have done for me?" Asked the son. Oh, he is not satisfied. So this is called māyā.

So one should be intelligent that "Why I am wasting my time in this way, where there is no satisfaction? Therefore I must render service to Kṛṣṇa. If I render service to Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied and everyone will be satisfied. And I shall be satisfied because I am also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." The same example: If you supply foodstuff to the stomach, then stomach is Kṛṣṇa. Then you are satisfied. Suppose you means individual parts. This hand is supplying sweetballs to the stomach. So this hand is satisfied; this hand also satisfied. And this head is also satisfied; *the leg is also satisfied. You see? Similarly, anyone who serves Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, being satisfied... Tasmin tuṣṭe jagat tuṣṭam. Just (like) I pour water on the root. The branches, the leaves, the flowers, the fruits and everything, they will immediately... Pay tax to the government, central government. The tax is distributed*-the education department, municipal department, this department, that department. Therefore the people are missing the center. They are trying to satisfy one another, but nobody is satisfied. And by illusion they cannot understand this mistake. Everyone is very much proud: "Oh, I am serving my country." And he does not know what somebody, his countrymen, will come and kill him. You see? He does not know that. This is māyā. So one should be intelligent to serve Kṛṣṇa. This prayer Hare Kṛṣṇa means "Kṛṣṇa, I am so much harassed by this service of this māyā. Now please engage me in Your service." This is our prayer. And as soon as I am engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, then I will be satisfied, Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied, and the whole world will be satisfied. So nobody should interpret any other way. This is direct meaning. Nāmna artha-vādaḥ. Or to imagine some meaning. No imagination. It is all direct interpretation or direct meaning.

*Then, nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. One should not commit sin. The four principle sins, we have several times repeated. Again we are repeated, that all sins are based on four principle headings: illicit sex life, and nonvegetarian diet, gambling and intoxication. It is very scientific. If one can avoid these four principles of sinful activities he becomes pure. He hasn't got to do much. If these four principles are followed, he will never touch any sinful activity. But if somebody thinks that "Because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and by chanting I become free from all sinful reaction, therefore let me do all nonsense," no, that is the greatest sin. Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. That is to be avoided.

*And sāmyam śubha*-kriyā mati-pramādaḥ. Just like we are having this function. There are many auspicious functions in every religious system, but it is not like that. It is transcendental. It is spiritual. It is not ordinary religious rituals. Chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is not a ritualistic method. It is transcendental. It is natural, original relationship. So this should be avoided. And the conception of realizing oneself as this body, self-realization. No. That should be avoided. And one should not be inattentive while chanting. In this way ten kinds of offenses... Of course, in the beginning we have got... Because our life is contaminated, there may be so many falldowns, but we should be careful. The more we become careful, the more we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa without any offense, the more we quickly become advanced. Just like a person taking medicine, if he takes all care, then the medicine effects very quickly and the disease is cured very quickly, similarly, if we take precaution of these ten kinds of offenses... Of course, by chanting, gradually everything will be cleared, but still, we must be very cautious. Even we fall down, that, Kṛṣṇa will save us if we are sincere.

*So these ten kinds of offenses should be avoided and at least sixteen rounds you must chant. All the Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, they had a limited, not limited, a number, fixed, that "So many times I shall chant." So we are offering only minimum of sixteen rounds. That, it will take, sixteen rounds, it will take about, utmost, three hours. So you should... Out of twenty*-four hours, you should engage at least three hours for chanting. So then this is the beginning of initiation, and those who have chanted at least for one year, then the next initiation is to offer him Gāyatrī mantra. Some of the students, boys and girls, will be offered this Gāyatrī mantra. And when the Gāyatrī mantra is offered men, they are offered also sacred thread, and girls, they are not offered sacred thread. If their husband is a brāhmaṇa, she automatically becomes brāhmaṇa because wife is considered to be the half, better half. She is the better portion. So she automatically becomes better brāhmaṇa (laughter). So better brāhmaṇa does not require any thread. There is a Bengali proverb, ya va nauket poiyete darkana naya (?). The proverb is that in India if one has got sacred thread, he is immediately understood that he must be belonging to the higher caste, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiṣya. But if somebody knows that he is brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya, he doesn't require to show the sacred thread. Similarly, the wives of brāhmaṇa is already known that he (she) is brāhmaṇa, so she does not require to show the sacred thread. So don't be sorry because you will not be offered the sacred thread. That's all right.

Now let us perform this yajña. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Like this, eight, nine, ten. Do it again. (Ceremony continues, Prabhupāda recites Gāyatrī mantra, Gurudāsa repeating) So this mantra, morning, evening, and noon recite. (end)



680729IN.MON

*Initiation of Bali*-mardana Dāsā

-

Montreal, July 29, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Two brahmacārīs will be initiated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can come forward. Yes. [break] ...means the beginning and the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because at the present moment we are merged into non*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness... (aside:) Oh, this sound, down. No, in this.



Girl: Speaker.



Haṁsadūta: Oh, that speaker.



*Prabhupāda: All right, you... Let your... Beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means first of all faith. Ādau śraddhā: "The beginning is faith." What is that faith? Faith means firm conviction that "If I become transcendentally engaged in the service of the Lord, then my life becomes successful." This is called faith. And that conviction must be firm, not tottering faith. So when this faith is created, then actually the initiation begins. Otherwise initiation is not accepted. Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya. When one is firmly convinced that "If I be engaged in the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa..." When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, we should know, speak of God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*So this firm conviction is the beginning of initiation. The Bhagavad*-gītā teaches this firm conviction gradually. And ultimately the Lord says, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "My dear Arjuna, you give up all other engagement. Just be engaged in My service or be engaged in executing My order." "Then what about other things?" Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. If somebody thinks that "If I give up all other engagements and simply be engaged in Your service, to carry out Your order, then what about my other engagements? I have got so many other duties. I am engaged in my family affairs, I am engaged in my social affairs, I am engaged in my country's affairs, community affairs, so many things, my... Then what about those things?" Kṛṣṇa says that "That I will see, how you can do it properly." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was a military man. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You give up all your engagements." That did not mean that Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna gave up his engagement as a military man. To give up all other engagements means to give up the engagements of your sense gratification. Instead of... At the present moment, with all our activities we are trying to gratify our senses. That's all. And surrender to Kṛṣṇa means the beginning of satisfying the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. This is the definition of bhakti. What is that bhakti? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become free from all designations. So long we are in the material conditional life, we have got various designations-"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am this," "I am that," so many designations, "I am nationalist," "I am Communist," "I am socialist," so many designations. So sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], means you have to give up the designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Now I am thinking, "I am nationalist," "I am Communist," "I am American," "I am Indian." So I have to give up these designations. And what I have to think? There must be thinking. I am not stopping my thinking what I am. That is indicated in the Vedas. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That aham, my identity, is not lost, but at the present moment I am thinking that "I am this, I am that," but you have to think, you have to identify with Brahman, the Supreme Brahman. And when you identify with the Supreme Brahman, that is your liberated stage. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When you identify yourself with Brahman, then at once you become free from all these designative activities, prasannātmā: "Oh, I have no more any duty in this material world." In this way, when you make further progress,

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*So when one, after being freed from all designation, when one is actually engaged in the activities of Brahman, that is called bhakti, or devotional service. So initiation means to be engaged in that Brahman activities. How Brahman activities? The same example can be cited, that Arjuna remained active, engaged in the battlefield, but in the beginning his identification was with his country, family, and so many other things. But later on, after understanding Bhagavad*-gītā, he identified himself with Kṛṣṇa. This identification with Kṛṣṇa means beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So ādau śraddhā, when one becomes firmly convinced that "By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious or being engaged in the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa, my life is successful, life will be successful," that is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or initiation. It is a stage. We have to go further and further till the stage of perfection. But initiation is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā. When one is firmly convinced, then he makes association with the devotees. Just like we have got this society, International Society for Krishna Consciousness. We are picking up persons who desire to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is a society.



*So firm conviction, then association. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu*-saṅga. Unless there is good association, you cannot be strong enough. In every field of activities you must have good association, either in business field, or if you want to be licentious, then you have to mix with persons who are drunkards. So association has got some strength. If you want to become scholars, then you have to associate with scholarly persons in the university. And if you want to be a thief, then you have to find out the association of the thieves. Similarly, if you want to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you have to find out persons who are Kṛṣṇa conscious. So firm conviction, then association. After association, the next stage is regulated life for following the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is called initiation. Or initiation from the very beginning. This is called dīkṣā. The Sanskrit term is called dīkṣā. Dīkṣā means... Di, divya-jñānam, transcendental knowledge, and kṣā, ikṣā. Ikṣā means darśana, to see, or kṣapayati, explain. That is called dīkṣā. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga. First faith, then association, then beginning of regulative principles. And if one follows, then the next promotion is to the stage of anartha-nivṛtti, disappearance of all misgivings. Just like in our association we don't allow four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex life, nonvegetarian diet, intoxication, and gambling. So by following the regulative principles one becomes freed from all these sinful activities. He does not any more indulge in illicit sex life, he does not indulge in nonvegetarian diet, he does not indulge in intoxication and he does not indulge in gambling. That is called anartha-nivṛtti. Unless one is above these four kinds of anartha, or sinful activities, one cannot be fixed up. When one is free from these four kinds of sinful activities, then he becomes fixed up. Ruci. Niṣṭhā, fixed up, and then ruci. Ruci means he increases the taste. Then āsakti. Āsakti means attachment. Then ecstasy, bhāva. Then the last stage is that he becomes a lover of Kṛṣṇa, and that loving stage of Kṛṣṇa, there are different stages: śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. The highest stage is the loving affairs between Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs. Of course, that is postgraduate stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but that stage is considered to be the most perfectional stage, how to love Kṛṣṇa in the bhāva, or in the position, of a gopī.

*So two boys who are now ready to be initiated, my request to all, especially to boys who are just going to be initiated, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is authorized because, even taking it for granted that it has begun from Kṛṣṇa, then it is at least five thousand years old. Kṛṣṇa appeared on this planet five thousand years ago. So if you take history of any religious or any cultural program within this world, no religion, no cultural program is older than 2,000 years or 2,500 years. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, even according to history, it is five thousand years old, the older than any principles of religion or culture. And if you go above historical references, then it is coming down from millions and millions of years past, because it was first instructed, as we understand from the Bhagavad-gītā, that it was first instructed to Sūrya. Imaṁ vivasvate proktam: "I first of all spoke this science to Vivasvān, Sūrya." Sūrya means sun-god. So nobody can trace out history when sun*-god took the lessons, but we can have little information from Manu-saṁhitā, because Manu's age, Vivasvān... This age is called Vaivasvata Manu. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that first of all this initiation was given by Kṛṣṇa to Vaivasvata, and he instructed his son, whose name is Vaivasvata Manu. So Vaivasvata Manu, by calculation we can understand forty millions of years ago... So this is not a new system that we are introducing or manufacturing by our concocted imagination, but it is authorized, coming down by disciplic succession from time immemorial. It may be that in this country it is being introduced for the last two or three years, but this system is the oldest system, oldest system, just like we are nityaḥ śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the soul is eternal and Purāṇa. Purāṇa means the oldest. Purāṇa. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is also said, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyam purāṇa-puruṣam [Bs. 5.33]. So Kṛṣṇa is also the oldest. Either Kṛṣṇa or the living creatures, all of them are the oldest because they have no death, no birth. There is no history. Na jāyate na mriyate. Bhagavad-gītā says that the living entity, what to speak of God... They say, "God is dead." This is all nonsense. What to speak of God, even these living creatures, they are not dead. The death program is for this body, just like changing, changing the body, er, changing the dress. So if one changes one dress or apartment, that does not mean that he is dead. Similarly, if we change this body to another body... As we are changing our body constantly, every moment, similarly, if we change this body to another body, that does not mean death. So death is not accepted in the Vedic literature. So either God or the living creature, nobody dies. Every one is eternal, śāśvata purāṇa. Similarly, as we are the oldest and eternal; similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also the oldest and eternal. [break]

*So initiation means now we are in the consciousness of this body, which is never eternal, temporary. So we are going to Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are going to our eternal consciousness. We are changing from the temporary, bodily consciousness to the eternal consciousness. This is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And we invite all ladies and gentlemen to come to our classes. We hold our classes three days in a week*-Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So everyone is welcome, and everyone can inquire and understand the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if one is fortunate enough to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, then his life will be perfect and successful.

(to initiates:) Now you come forward. [break] Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then again, one round, er, one bead, sixteen names. Then second bead. In this way finish 108, come here. Begin from here, again come there. In this way, finish sixteen rounds. And so far offenses, I will explain later on and you will get paper. So what is your name?

Bill: Bill.



*Prabhupāda: So your spiritual name is Bali*-mardana dāsa. Take it. Just bow down. Nama...



*Bali*-mardana:



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhūtale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



(repeats twice more)



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. Come on. Be happy. Bali-mardana dāsa. B-a-l*-i m-a-r-d-a-n. Bali-mardana dāsa brahmacārī. Bali-mardana means Kṛṣṇa's name. Kṛṣṇa, as Vāmanadeva, he punished Bali Mahārāja by capturing his whole kingdom. Mardana means punishment. And after all, Bali Mahārāja became an authority because he showed the example of surrendering everything, sarvātma-snapane, even his body. First of all he gave his kingdom. Then, when it was not finished, then Kṛṣṇa demanded Vāmanadeva that "You have finished all your kingdom. Still you are debtor for one step, another. Where shall I keep another step?" So Bali Mahārāja said, "Yes. I have got still place on my head. You can place Your step on my head." So he delivered his kingdom, his everything, at last his body, and Kṛṣṇa became purchased by him. And since then, Bali Mahārāja is one of the twelve authorities.



svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

[SB 6.3.20]



*So Bali is... Bali*-mardana does not mean that he was... Because he was punished by Kṛṣṇa, he is not ordinary person; *he is authority. So even a person punished by Kṛṣṇa becomes authority. Kṛṣṇa is so nice. What to speak of a person who is directly loved by Kṛṣṇa, even one is punished by Kṛṣṇa, he becomes authority. So therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Bali*-mardana. And Bali-mardana dāsa means Kṛṣṇa dāsa, one who is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Is that clear? Yes. [break] (japa) So that list you have not made, offenses, ten kinds of...?



Haṁsadūta: Not yet. No.



*Prabhupāda: Why? You do that. They should be given that. You should avoid chanting, every one of you, ten kinds of offenses. The first offense is to decry the scriptures, Vedas. To accept authority of Vedas. Not to accept or decrying scriptures. Vedas means the book of transcendental knowledge. Not only Bhagavad*-gītā, even Bible or Koran, they are also, although Bhagavad-gītā... Higher or secondary or primary, that is different. But whenever there is information of God, that is scripture, recognized. So we are concerned with the Vedas. So anyway, other scripture which is giving information of God scientifically or accepted by persons, that is also Vedas. One should not blaspheme the Vedas. This is first offense, to blaspheme. And satāṁ nindā, those who are preaching the message of God, they should not be blasphemed. And then never interpret in the scriptures or in the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. And sāmya śubha-kriyā mati-pramādaḥ. This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa should not be executed as something auspicious activities. People generally go to church, to temple, to counteract their sinful activities. Somebody thinks actually that "If I go to church or temple, if I confess before God, then my sinful activities will be counteracted." But hari-nāma should not be taken in that way. If we think that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa; *therefore I am free to commit all kinds of nonsense," then no. Then we will not be able to make progress. Sāmya śubha-kriyā mati-pramādaḥ. And nāmna artha-vāda. And while chanting, to think of ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8], moha, this world as "mine," "I am this body," and without attention, inattentive, to become inattentive... While chanting, you must hear. Hare Kṛṣṇa*-you must give attention to hear. In this way there is paper. You will take from your Godbrothers ten kinds of offenses. If you avoid the offenses, then you make very good progress of chanting. You get good result. The first stage is chanting with offenses. That is natural, because nobody is expert. The second stage is without offenses. When one can chant without offenses, then he becomes liberated. And the third stage is to achieve in the transcendental platform in the loving service of the Lord. So this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that it will gradually elevate you to the highest position. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





680815IN.MON

Initiation of Rukmiṇī Dāsī

-

Montreal, August 15, 1968



(Tape begins with Prabhupāda chanting "Prayers of Queen Kuntī" by himself in Sanskrit. When Yamunā starts kīrtana with "Hare Kṛṣṇa," Prabhupāda stops her, saying, "Vandanam. Vandanam. Prayer. Prayer." Then Prabhupāda leads them in Vande 'ham. At end of prayer, Prabhupāda says, "Chant," and Yamunā starts leading Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana. Prabhupāda chants prayers to the six Gosvāmīs by himself.)

Prabhupāda:



*kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau



You can get up. Can anyone follow on the harmonium, this? Mukunda, you can follow. (sings)



*kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*(Prabhupāda continues playing karatālas while speaking) This today, a devotee is being initiated, so we are praying to the lotus feet of the six Gosvāmīs, who inaugurated this movement under the instruction of Lord Śrī Caitanya. Who are they? Śrī rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Just try to chant these six names. (sings) (devotees chant) Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Repeat. Again. Rūpa, sanātana, two, vande rūpa-sanātanau, raghu-yugau. There were two Raghunāthas. One Raghunātha Bhaṭṭācārya and one Raghunātha dāsa. Two Raghunāthas, and Rūpa, Sanātana. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. (chants first verse again) So what was their business? Kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Always engaged in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana. Hare Kṛṣṇa means Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Nartana means dancing. So chanting and dancing. That was their business. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. And Kṛṣṇa kīrtana, whenever one is merged in Kṛṣṇa kīrtana, that means he is merged into the ocean of love of Kṛṣṇa. That should be the test. As soon as "Kṛṣṇa," this sound is vibrated, one immediately becomes merged into the ocean of love. That is the sign of pure devotion. Immediately. So these Gosvāmīs, they... Premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. They merged immediately into the ocean of love of God. (sings) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī, dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau. And these Gosvāmīs were dear both to the devotees and nondevotees. Not that they were simply liked by the devotees, but nondevotees also liked them. That was their position. A devotee's position is ajāta-śatru, he has no enemy. He has no enemy. Ajāta-śatru. Nirmatsara, nirmatsara means because they are not envious. A devotee is always open to everyone. There is no question of discrimination, that "This person should be allowed to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and this person should not be allowed." No. In the material platform there is difference, high, low, man, woman, this or that. But in the spiritual platform there is no such difference. Therefore they were nonenvious, nirmatsara, and because they were nonenvious, pūjitau, pūjitau means they are worshipable. A person should be worshipable because he's nonenvious. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau, such kind of position can be attained by one who has acquired the mercy of Lord Caitanya. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantāra. And such person can deliver the suffering humanity from this material contamination. Therefore we offer our respectful obeisances unto the six Gosvāmīs, Rūpa, Sanātana, two Raghunāthas, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, and Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Repeat.



*nānā-śāstra*-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau

*lokānāṁ hita*-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau

*rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*(Śrīla Prabhupāda continues playing karatālas while speaking) Nānā-śāstra*-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau, they were expert in scrutinizingly studying all the scriptures. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. Nipuṇau means expert. Why? Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. To establish real religion in the world. Real religion. Just yesterday we have received one letter from Mr. Renovate, Vancouver. He says that the Canadians, they want real religion. That's very good, encouraging. Anyone, if he is anxious to have real religion, for him this is the best thing, this kṛṣṇa-kīrtana-gāna-nartana. So without religion, human society is nothing but animal society. It is simply polished animalism. So these Gosvāmīs, they made so many books to guide us. You have read Rūpa Gosvāmī's Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. That is the first direction in the line. So they always worked very hard, day and night. Their business was writing books or chanting and dancing. And other necessities, eating, sleeping, mating and fearing, they practically abolished. There was no question of mating, there was no question of fearing. And sleeping, they used to sleep utmost one and a half hour daily in twenty-four hours. And eating, that is also practically nil. When they felt hungry they would go to some householder's home and beg one capati or two capatis. That's all. Finished. So nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Why? Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. The mission of saintly persons is simply to think how this suffering humanity will become happy by spiritual consciousness. That is their business. They are not for exploiting. The whole material world is trying... One man is trying to exploit another; one nation is trying to exploit another nation; *one society is trying to... This is struggle for existence. They have invented this law that "Might is right." You struggle, and if you are powerful... Just like there is now struggle between Russia and America, or China and America. This is going on. So everyone is suffering. The struggle for existence means a condition of suffering. And these saintly persons, devotees of Kṛṣṇa, not only devotees of Kṛṣṇa, any devotee of God, they are, their business is to see how people become happy. Lokānāṁ hita*-kāriṇau. Therefore, tribhuvane mānyau. The devotees are worshiped not only in this planet but in other planets also-wherever they will go.



*There is a nice verse in Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... Vidvatvāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana. He says that a rich man and a learned man cannot be compared. There is no comparison. Why? Because sva*-deśe pūjyate rājan vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. A rich man may be honored in his own country but a learned man, a devotee of God, he will be honored wherever he goes. Sva-deśe pūjyate rājan vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. So this is the position of devotee. Therefore a devotee, wherever he goes he'll be honored. Therefore a devotee has no distinction whether it is heaven or hell, because Kṛṣṇa is with him either in heaven or hell. So where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of hell. It is Vaikuṇṭha. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he did not enter Jagannātha temple at Purī. He thought himself, that "I am born in Muhammadan family. These Hindus, they're against any Muhammadans entering the temple. Why shall I go and disturb them? I shall chant here." So Jagannātha Himself was coming daily to him. This is the power of devotee. He hasn't got to go to Jagannātha, but Jagannātha comes to see him. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come daily to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. When He was going to take bath in the sea, so He would first of all enter Haridāsa's cottage: "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" "Yes, my Lord, please come." So this is the position of devotee. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mad-bhakta-pūjyābhyadhikaḥ. If somebody worships a devotee, that worshipment is more valuable than worshiping Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says like that.

So this is a process... Vaiṣṇava process is paramparā process. So today this nice girl is going to be initiated. She must learn this science, this very nice science, and you all Godbrothers and sisters will help her. Anyone who is trying to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, he should be given or she should be given all kinds of facilities. You'll be glad to learn that our Hayagrīva brahmacārī, he is taking one land in West Virginia, 136 acres of land. So I've advised him to develop it into New Vrindaban. So I have got today his letter, the document he is preparing through the lawyer. So it is also a nice project. If by Kṛṣṇa's desire we can develop a center just exactly prototype of Vṛndāvana, it will be very nice. Those American boys and girls who cannot go so long distance, 14,000 miles, they will have facility. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities. Simply we have to be very sincere and everything will be done nicely.

So let us begin our today's business. (to initiate:) So you come forward. Yes. Take little water, one glass and spoon. This is too big. All right, take it. You know how to do it? Take little water, one, two, three, then four. Do it like that. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chant japa) (Prabhupāda leads devotees in chanting oṁ apavitraḥ three times) Now again do that. Three times. Again chant. That door is closed? [break] The purport of this mantra is that if anyone is impure, apavitraḥ... Pavitraḥ means pure. Anyone, either he is pure or impure, it doesn't matter. Apavitraḥ pavitraḥ vā sarvāvasthām. In any condition of life, it doesn't matter. Pure or impure, there are two conditions. Someone is impure, someone is pure. So either way, namo apavitraḥ pavitro, sarvāvasthām, in any condition, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam. Anyone who remembers puṇḍarīkākṣam, means Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa... Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa, that person, bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ, he immediately becomes clean inside and outside. Śuciḥ, śuciḥ means clean or śuciḥ means brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means clean. You have got all threads, so you should always prove that you are always clean. Bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. Śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu. So this is remembering Viṣṇu. So simply by remembering Viṣṇu, if one becomes clean inside and outside, so by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, how much purified he is becoming in every moment or every second. It is so nice. There is no question if we always keep ourselves chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, so there is no chance of being contaminated by the influence of māyā. It is so nice.

Now you chant, I'll say, you repeat. (chants prayers for fire sacrifices, devotees respond) Thank you. Chant you Hare Kṛṣṇa. Right hand, not left hand. Keep forward your right hand. Yes. (Prabhupāda chants japa) So you have seen how I'm chanting? You'll begin from this bigger one. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then take another, in this way, come to this end, again begin from here, come to this end. In this way, chant sixteen rounds at least. At least. [break] ...principles of restriction. The more you follow the restriction, the more you become advanced. These things are required. And you try to avoid ten kinds of offenses. That offenses? The paper is not there? The ten kinds of offenses.

Guest: *Easy Journey to Other Planets*.



Prabhupāda: Other planets? Offenses, ten kinds of offenses to be avoided. You have got that?



Haṁsadūta: We will give her a list.



*Prabhupāda: All right. So the first offense is satāṁ-nindā. No devotee shall be blasphemed. Satāṁ-nindaṁ śruti-śāstra-nindanam, no scriptures should be defiled. Satāṁ-nindaṁ śruti-śāstra-nindanam tathārtha-vādo hari-nāmni kalpanam. And never make any interpretation. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, somebody may make interpretation. There is no interpretation. The direct meaning is that we are praying Kṛṣṇa and His energy to accept me in the society of His service. This is the simple... There is no other interpretation. Or artha-vādaḥ. And sāmya-śubha-kriyā-pramādaḥ, one should not accept chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa with some, something śubha-kriyā. Just like generally the materialist persons, they go to churches or temple just to become purified of their sinful activities. Just like in Christian religion it is the custom, what is called? Confession. So we should not (be) like that. It is not confession. Confession means I confess that I have done this sinful act, and as soon as I come out from the church I do it again. No. We should know that all sinful activities are washed off by chanting, but that does not mean we shall commit it again. Whatever we have done, that is washed off. Now we should be careful. And that four principles-no illicit sex life, no meat-eating, and no gambling, no intoxication*-you try and follow. You must follow. As you are taking this mantra, you must now follow. Whatever is done is done. Finished. And we, we allow marriage. So there is no restriction. One can marry. But no illicit sex. So these four principles should be followed, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and be pleased. Be more beautiful within and without. You are beautiful girl, so... You are all beautiful. So become beautiful within also. Kṛṣṇa will accept. Kṛṣṇa can accept any number of beautiful girls. (laughs) Unlimitedly. Just see. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. Lakṣmī. The beautiful girls are called goddess of fortune. Actually, woman is considered as goddess of fortune, representative of goddess of fortune. We are misusing for sense gratification. No. They should be respected as goddess of fortune. If one man has got nice wife, actually he has got goddess of fortune. That is astrological calculation. A man is considered to be fortunate in three ways. If he has got good wife then he is fortunate. If he has got good son then he is fortunate. And if he has got plenty money he is fortunate. So these three standards of fortune, out of which, one who has got good wife, he is the most fortunate. So our society will try to make good wives so that the boys, all boys, should, can think himself always fortunate. If one has got good wife, any place, doesn't matter. Either under... Just like Lord Śiva, he was living underneath the tree. There is no shelter, but he had the good wife, Pārvatī, so he was happy. So whenever you like, we shall select any brahmacārī. But don't have illicit sex. Marriage is allowed. I take personally care of marriage. I want this society must be cleansed. Without being cleansed, nobody can advance in spiritual consciousness. So what is your name?



Devotee: Wendy.



Prabhupāda: Your present name? What is that? Wendy. So is there any name Rukmiṇī in our list?



Devotees: Oh! (laughs)



*Prabhupāda: So you may be called Rukmiṇī devī. And some day you may be kidnapped by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa kidnapped Rukmiṇī. Rukmiṇī was very beautiful, qualified, Lakṣmī. So his (her) father liked that Rukmiṇī should be given to Kṛṣṇa. And his (her) brother liked that she should be handed over to another boy. So Rukmiṇī sent one letter to Kṛṣṇa, that "Although I've not seen You, but I've heard of Your activities. So I am attached to You. Now some nonsense is coming to marry me." [break] Just see, how nice it is (laughs). And we eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda, we enjoy the Kṛṣṇa. What is this nonsense, ahaṁ brahman, Brahman? "I am stone." What is the difference? If somebody thinks, "I am stone," and if somebody says, "I am Brahman. I am void," so what is the difference between stone and void? The same thing. Why should we become stone and wood? We shall, we should reciprocate loving affairs with Kṛṣṇa. Mādhavī*-latā? How many pictures you have done? You have seen Mādhavī-latā's picture? That picture is painted by Mādhavī-latā. Yes, she is good painter. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why you have stopped? Yes, always chant. Chant loudly. (fire sacrifice continues) All bow down. (devotees offer obeisances) Now chant. "Govinda Jaya Jaya." Chant. Chant and dance. (Prabhupāda leads kīrtana) (prema-dhvanī)



Devotee: Will you always be our spiritual master?



Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What do you say?



Devotee: Will you be our spiritual master for eternity?



*Prabhupāda: I think so. (laughs) Whatever we do here, it is for eternity because it is not on the material stages. It is all on the spiritual platform. There is a song by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, cakhu*-dān dilo yei janme janme pitā sei: "One who has opened the eyes, he is, birth after birth, he is my father."



Devotee: Oh, that is... Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Cakhu*-dān dilo yei. Cakhu-dān means one who has opened the eyes, that is spiritual master. Janme janme pitā sei. Janme janme means birth after birth, he is my father. All right, distribute prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Oh, the whole thing? (laughs) All right. Give him. (devotees chanting japa) [break] You are not taking? Take more. Oh, where is Mādhavī-latā? Why you are in the back side? Come on, take more. Come here. You are not taking more? Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes.



Yamunā: Rukmiṇī devī gave that to you.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good. What is this?



Yamunā: It's a shawl for around your neck in the cold weather.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Yamunā: She made it.



Prabhupāda: Very good. Very nice. Thank you.



Rukmiṇī: I'll give it to Govinda dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Govinda... [break] (end)





680905IN.NY

Initiation of Hṛṣīkeśa Dāsā

and Marriage of Satsvarūpa and Jadurāṇī

-

New York, September 5, 1968



Prabhupāda: And where is that boy, Hṛṣīkeśa?



Devotee: Hṛṣīkeśa.



*Prabhupāda: Come on. Oh, he has shaved his face. Very nice. Sit down. [break] Today we have got two functions. One function is initiation of a brahmacārī, and another function is marriage ceremony of our one disciple Satsvarūpa brahmacārī and Jadurāṇī brahmacāriṇī. [break] ...Caitanya*-bhāgavata there is a verse which says, gṛhe vā vanete thāke, hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. The purport is that either if you remain in household life or you remain as mendicant in the forest, in either case, you just become a devotee of Lord Caitanya. So although we have four divisions of the social orders, namely the brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa... Brahmacārī means student, strictly observing life of celibacy, following the rules and regulations enunciated by the spiritual master under strict discipline. That is called brahmacārī. And next is that if a brahmacārī wants to get himself married, that is allowed. So when a brahmacārī is married, he is called gṛhastha, or householder. But because a brahmacārī is trained from the very beginning of his life renunciation of material enjoyment, he cannot be absorbed like ordinary man in family life. Ordinary man, they cannot give up the family life or association of woman even up to the end of life. But according to Vedic system, association of woman is allowed only for a certain period, during the youthful days only, just to beget nice children. Because from the age of twenty-five years old up to fifty years, one can beget nice children. Gṛhastha life, householder life, is meant for begetting nice children. If there are Kṛṣṇa conscious children in the society, there will be no disturbance. According to Vedic system, the population is divided into two divisions. Illegitimate sons are called varṇa-saṅkara. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that when the population becomes varṇa-saṅkara, the whole social situation becomes hellish. Actually that is the fact. So one should be very careful to beget nice children so that society, social order, political order will be calm, quiet, peaceful. That is the idea of gṛhastha life. And many devotees... There are twelve selected personalities who are considered to be the authority of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Out of twelve authorities, seven authorities were all gṛhasthas, householders. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's associates, Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu, Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself, they were all householders. So it is not that simply sannyāsī or brahmacārī can realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness and not the householders. No.



*So in our association we welcome this sort of marriage between trained brahmacārī and brahmacāriṇī so that we can welcome nice children for future Kṛṣṇa conscious generation. That is our viewpoint. So... And initiation... Initiation means to begin spiritual life. According to Vedic culture, there are two births. One birth is from the gṛhastha parents, father and mother, and the other birth is between the spiritual master and Vedas. The Vedic knowledge is considered mother, and the spiritual master is considered the father. And by the help of the spiritual master, when one gets into transcendental knowledge, that is called second birth. So janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ: "Everyone is born śūdra." Śūdra means without any culture. They are called śūdras. According to Vedic scriptures, there are four classes of men: brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Out of these four classes of social order, the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas are considered higher caste. Brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of men in the society, and kṣatriya means the administrative class of men, and vaiśyas means the mercantile class of men, and śūdras means the laborer class of men. That division is everywhere, not only in India. These four classes of men are present in every country, every society. It may be in different names only, but the four divisions are already there everywhere. It cannot be without it. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. These four classes of divisions are there according to different qualities, and Kṛṣṇa says, or God says, "That is My creation." So there cannot be any exception of His creation. Just like God's creation is sun. In every country there is sun, not that the sun can be seen in India. In every country there is moon. Similarly, this caste system is present in every country, in every society, but it may be called in different names. So the śūdras means the lowest class of men, who have no culture, but the higher classes, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, they are considered highly cultured. And how they are called highly cultured? Because they are twice-born. First birth, janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskārāt, by following this ritualistic ceremony of initiation or marriage, they are called dvija, twice-born. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijo veda-pāthād bhaved vipraḥ. This initiation means this boy is being accepted as initiated in order to give him Vedic instruction so that he may live as a student, as a brahmacārī, within the society and get complete instruction of Vedic knowledge. And when he is competent, he is called vipra. Veda-pāthād bhaved vipro brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And when he realizes the Supreme Self, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he will be called brāhmaṇa. At that time we offer thread ceremony.

So this process are there, we are observing, and our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is gradually making progress with these principles. We have got already eleven branches, and one of our principal students, Śrīman Hayagrīva Brahmacārī and Kīrtanānanda Swami, they are attempting to open a new social community project in West Virginia, New Vrindaban. So this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is taking ground gradually, and we hope in future these gṛhasthas, these householders, vānaprasthas, sannyāsīs, they will implement this Vedic culture gradually, and people will be more and more happy. Thank you very much.

So one thing I forgot is the sacred thread ceremony for Hayagrīva. He is present. Is there any? I think in my bag there is a thread, so Hayagrīva can also. Oh, here. You have that mantra?

Brahmānanda: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ? And one thread? Bring. Hayagrīva?



Devotees: Hayagrīva? Hayagrīva.



Prabhupāda: Now, where is water? These garlands may be first of all put here, then one to the bridegroom and to the... [break] (oṁ apavitraḥ recitation) Again do that. Yes, chant. Those who are initiated, chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... I forgot to say you about the thread ceremony. Those who have passed one year's chanting, they can be offered this sacred thread. [break] ...first of all. Everyone has done? (ācamana) You have done second time. You have done second time? Then you do second time, you. Hṛṣīkeśa.



Kīrtanānanda: They have done it twice, all of them.



Prabhupāda: They have done now? Oh. (oṁ apavitraḥ recitation) Yes. Do it for the third time, circle. (oṁ apavitraḥ recitation, followed by maṅgalācaraṇa and other prayers) Now... Yes. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (all chanting japa) You have... You can sit down. You are going? She is going? Your mother is going? Call her. Now we shall, function. Please sit down. [break] Come to this end, 108, then begin from here, again come to this side. In this way at least sixteen rounds you chant. And your spiritual name is already Hṛṣīkeśa. That's all right. And further instruction you'll have from Kīrtanānanda Swami and your Godbrother. So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, is that, that...?



Devotee: (indistinct) neck beads.



Prabhupāda: Now Judy's mother, you can come here, Judy's mother.



Jadurāṇī: She can sit on the chair.



Prabhupāda: Oh. That's all right. Give her chair here.



Jadurāṇī: Oh, all right.



Prabhupāda: Sit down there. You sit down. Satsvarūpa, you sit down, this...



Satsvarūpa: Sit down here.



*Prabhupāda: No. Yes. Sit down. Sit down there. Now your daughter is being married with this brahmacārī. Now you can offer this brahmacārī-his name is Satsvarūpa*-that "This girl was in my charge so long. I give this daughter to you in charity to take charge." You tell like that.



Jadurāṇī's mother: I've had this daughter with me for so long. I now give her in your charge.



Prabhupāda: Yes. And you say, "Yes, I take charge."



Satsvarūpa: Yes. I take charge.



Jadurāṇī's mother: Then take here.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Then you say that "Jadurāṇī, I take charge of your life so long I shall live," in this way.



Satsvarūpa: Jadurāṇī, I take charge of your life so long I shall live.



Prabhupāda: And you say that "I shall render my services unto you throughout my life. Throughout my life." Yes.



Jadurāṇī: I shall render my service to you throughout my life.



Prabhupāda: And there is no separation. It is... There is no question of divorce or separation. In any condition of life, happiness or distress, you shall continue as husband and wife, because our main business is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This marriage is not material marriage for sense gratification. But because there are girls and boys and we require also Kṛṣṇa conscious population, therefore we encourage this marriage. It is not for sense gratification. So in this way there is no question of separation or divorce. You admit this? Yes. You also admit this? Then you change your garland.



Devotees: Haribol. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Now you come this side; you come this side. Yes. And there is red, red sindhu? No? Red sindhu? No?



Brahmānanda: There is a ring.



Prabhupāda: There is a ring? All right. Give her this ring and now just cover the head. You cover. You cover the head. And somebody stuck up this, his cloth and his (her) cloth. Knot. Make a knot. You make. Yes. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] Godbrothers and sister, give them good wishes.



Devotees: Haribol! Haribol! All glories to Satsvarūpa and Jadurāṇī! Hare Kṛṣṇa!



Prabhupāda: Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants) Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Boston center is in your charge, husband and wife. So you have to develop. You do it, and your children will do it. In this way just engage fully, heart and soul, in Kṛṣṇa's service. Oh, this is mixed?



Brahmānanda: No, it's not.



*Prabhupāda: Bring that. Mix it. Mix it. Yes, mix it. (oṁ apavitraḥ recitation*-fire sacrifice) Offer. Svāhā. Take. Everyone, you also take, little, little, some. Vande aham... (recites maṅgalācaraṇa and prayers again, with devotees repeating) Now take one banana. Give him one. Yes, you take one. He'll give. Hayagrīva. Give Hayagrīva one. Give me one. Yes. Now turn(?) down. Yes. (chants namo brahmaṇya-devāya prayer three times) Just put slowly. (chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra responsively with devotees two times) Now bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



*(devotees offer obeisances) Chant govinda jaya jaya, gopāla jaya jaya. (kīrtana*-Prabhupāda recites Gāyatrī to Hayagrīva during kīrtana) (prema-dhvanī by Śrīla Prabhupāda) All glories to the married couples. Now distribute prasāda. [break] ...in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness every function is happy?



Devotees: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is there, reservoir of all pleasure. Why it should not be happy? Everything should be happy. Where is your spot, black?



Hṛṣīkeśa: Oh, he didn't give it to me yet.



Prabhupāda: Somebody may take these bananas, cut into pieces and distribute. (end)





681020I2.SEA

Initiation

-

Seattle, October 20, 1968



(kīrtana, etc.)

Prabhupāda: (leads prayers for fire sacrifice) Vande 'ham..., svāhā. Why left hand? Right hand. Svāhā. Svāhā. (chants standard fire sacrifice prayers with devotees' response) Now stand up with this banana.



*go brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



(chants twice with response) Put this banana like this. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (chants twice with response) Now bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



All right.



Devotees: Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Now you chant. You chant. Hare Kṛṣṇa, chant.



Young woman: Excuse me please. I have to speak to you.



Prabhupāda: Please wait. Let me finish. Let me finish.



Viṣṇujana: You don't have to speak to him.



Young woman: Yes I do. You are sitting up there and all of these people are sitting here, and you're like you're on a throne. And you're feeling...



Viṣṇujana: No.



Young woman: Pardon? No, this is wrong.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let us chant. (kīrtana*-prema-dhvanī) Where is that girl? She is gone?



Viṣṇujana: I think Madhudviṣa explained to her. She did not know about the bowing down and everything.



Prabhupāda: What was her question?



Viṣṇujana: She was thinking that we were bowing to you as if you were God. She resents this, because in the Christian religion it says, "Bow down to no man."



Prabhupāda: What did you explain?



Viṣṇujana: I don't know.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) Did you not explain that we are bowing down not as God, as God's representative? Did you..., could not explain like this?



Madhudviṣa: She's over there, I think, if you'd like to talk to her.



Viṣṇujana: You can explain that to her.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you'd better... You explain it to her. It might be better than her coming here and blaspheming.



Prabhupāda: Call her. Call her. Call her. (pause) (talking in background, initiates discussing their names, etc.) Distribute prasādam. Everyone. Outside also?



Upendra: Prabhupāda? Tomorrow between 12:15 for a lecture at the University.



Prabhupāda: What is the arrangement?



Upendra: It is one small auditorium. It seats seventy people. They have advertised on the university and in the newspaper at the university. So we have no idea who will come, but they have advertised.



Prabhupāda: So you will be able to collect?



Upendra: Indiscreetly. We will ask as they leave. (end)





681020IN.SEA

Lecture & Initiation

-

Seattle, October 20, 1968



*Prabhupāda: (sings) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (audience responds) So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to approach the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Directly. This is a special gift of Lord Caitanya that... In this age there are so many anomalies, defects in the life of human being that gradually they are giving up the idea of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Not only gradually they are giving up, they have already given up. So Vedānta-sūtra therefore says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. It is not that a different type of religious system we have introduced. It is a great necessity of the present day. Because we say that either you follow scripture, Bible, or you follow Koran or you follow Vedas, the aim is God. But at the present moment, due to the influence of this Kali-yuga... Kali-yuga means the age of quarrel and disagreement. So in this age people are embarrassed in so many ways. First disqualification is that they do not live for long time. The average duration of life in India is thirty-five years, and I do not know exactly what is the average age here, but in India the people are overcrowded. They have no such intelligence, or they did not care to go outside India, colonize. Everyone went there to exploit, but they never thought of exploiting other places. That is their cultural... They do not try to encroach upon others' property. Anyway, India's position is very precarious, because they have left their own culture and they're trying to imitate the Western culture, which they cannot due to so many circumstances, and therefore they're put into, between the horns of Scylla and Charybdis. You see.



*So this age is like that. Not only in India, in other countries the difficulties are in a different way. The problems are different. But there are problems, either in India or in America or in China. Everywhere, they are trying to make so many schemes for world peace. In your country also, in America even, there is no safety of life for big men like Kennedys, you see. Anyone can be killed at any moment, and there is no action. So there is another problem. In Communist country they are, by force, they're ruling on the citizens. So many Russians, so many Chinese, they are going away out of their country. They do not like this Communist idea. So problems are there due to this age. Due to this age of Kali, the problems are there. And what are the problems? The problems are that in this age people are very short*-lived, their duration of life. We do not know when we shall die. At any moment. It is said that during Lord Rāmacandra's rule, a brāhmaṇa... (aside:) It's not working? ...he came to the king, "My dear king, my son has died. So please explain why, in the presence of father, a son shall die." Just see how much the king was responsible. An old father came to complain to the king, "What is the reason that in the presence of the father, a son dies? Please explain." So just see how much responsible government was there. The government is responsible if the son dies before the father. Naturally, the father is older than the son, so he must die first. So such responsible government was there. Now in the civilized world anyone can be killed by anyone, but nobody cares for it.

*So duration of life is very uncertain in this age. At any moment we can die. But this life, this human form of life, is meant for a sublime gain. What is that? To make a permanent solution of the miserable condition of our life. In this... So long we are in this material form, this body, we have to change from one body to another, one body to another. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Repeated birth, repeated death. Soul is immortal, eternal, but changing, just like you are changing the dress. So this problem they do not take into account, but this is a problem. The human life is meant for making a solution of this problem, but neither they have any knowledge, nor they are very much serious about solving these problems. So duration, if you get a long duration of life, then there is chance you may meet somebody, you may meet some good association that you can make the solution of your life. But that is also impossible now because our duration of life is very short. Prāyeṇa alpāyuṣaḥ sabhya kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ mandāḥ. And even whatever duration of life we have got, we are not properly utilizing. We are utilizing this life just like animal, simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. In this age, if anyone can eat sumptuously, he thinks, "Oh, my day's duty is finished." If anyone can provide a wife and two or three children, he is to be considered as a very big man. You see. He is providing a family. Because mostly they are without family, without any responsibility. This is the symptoms of this age.

*So even if we have got short life, we are not very serious. Mandāḥ, very slow. Just like here, we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody is serious about to learn or to understand what is this movement. And if somebody is interested, they want to be cheated. They want something cheap or cheap something for self*-realization. They have got money, they want to pay somebody some fees, and if he says that "I'll give you some mantra and you will, fifteen minutes meditation, within six months you'll become God," these things they want. Mandāḥ manda-matayo. Manda-matayo means very foolish conclusion. They do not think that "Solution of the problems of life can be purchased only by paying thirty-five dollars?" They have become so foolish. Because if we say that to make a solution of your problems of life you have to follow these principles, "Oh, this is very difficult. Let me pay thirty-five dollars and solve it, make a solution." You see? So they want to be cheated. They are called manda-matayo. And cheaters come and cheat them. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā [SB 1.1.10]. Manda-bhāgyā means they are unfortunate also. Even God comes and canvasses Himself, "Please come to Me," oh, they don't care for it. You see? Therefore unfortunate. If somebody comes and offers you one million dollars, if you say, "I don't like it," then are you not unfortunate? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*"For self-realization simply you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result." No. They'll not accept. Therefore unfortunate. If you are canvassing the best thing, the easiest process, but they'll not accept, they want to be cheated... You see? Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. And harassed by so many things*-this Draft Board, this board, that board, this, that, so many things. This is their position. Short life, very slow, no understanding, and if they want to understand, they want to be cheated, they are unfortunate, and disturbed. This is the position of the present days. It doesn't matter whether you are born in America or in India, this is the whole position.



*So there is a great need of this movement, and we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and this is practical, very easy, and just suitable for this age. It doesn't consider how much you are qualified. It doesn't consider. Whatever your past life may be, you simply come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa with your tongue-God has given you a tongue*-and taste Kṛṣṇa prasāda, Love Feast, and make your life successful. Very easy process. So this is our program. So invite anyone to join this movement, and you'll be benefited. And you will see practically. It is pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that this process of self-realization is directly perceivable. Directly perceivable. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. Just like when you eat, you can understand that you are eating, you can understand that your hunger is being satisfied, you can understand that you are getting strength. So you haven't got to take certificate. You can yourself understand it is so nice thing. Pratyakṣāvagamam. Pratyakṣa means directly, avagamam. You understand it directly. If you meditate, so-called meditation, you do not know how far you are making progress. You see. You are in oblivion. You do not know. But here, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll directly feel, directly feel. I have got so many students, so many letters, how they are feeling directly. It is so nice. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. And very nice to perform. Chant and dance and eat. What do you want more? (laughter) Simply chanting, dancing, and eating nice sweetballs, kachori. So su-sukham and kartum avyayam. While performing, while practicing this process, it is very pleasurable, and avyayam. Avyayam means whatever you do, even if you execute one percent of this movement, that is your permanent asset. Permanent asset. If you do two percent, three percent, four percent... But don't wait for next life. Finish, cent percent. It is not very easy to execute; *therefore finish. Don't wait, that "Let me finish in this life a certain percentage of self*-realization, and next life I shall do." And what is the test of realization, finishing full percentage? The test is how much you have learned to love God, Kṛṣṇa, that's all. You have got your love, you love somebody, but if you divide your love, that "I shall love this country and my society, my girlfriend and this and that, or boyfriend, and I shall try to love Kṛṣṇa also..." No. That is also nice, but if you give predominance, all predominance, simply to love Kṛṣṇa, you'll automatically love other things, and your life will be perfect. Other loving affairs will not be minus. Just like a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he loves not only his family and society; he loves even the animal, he loves even the ant, his love is so much expanded. It is so nice thing. How much you can love? Anything, as soon as there is some misunderstanding, the love is broken. But Kṛṣṇa love is so sound that you'll never break, and your love will be expanded universally. It is so nice thing. And love you have got. You have simply misplaced your loving capacity to so many things. You just revert it to Kṛṣṇa, and when you perfectly love Kṛṣṇa, you'll see that you're loving your country, your society, your friend, more than what you loved before, it is so nice thing.

*So take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be happy in this life and next life. If you can finish your loving affairs to Kṛṣṇa in this life, then you have done cent percent. If not, whatever percentage you have executed in this life, that will remain with you. It will not go. That is assured in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga bhraṣṭo sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. One who cannot execute this yoga process completely cent per cent, he is given next birth a chance to take birth in a rich family or to get birth in a very pure family. Two alternatives. So either you take birth in pure family or in rich family, at least your birth as a human being is guaranteed. But if you don't take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you do not know what is your next birth. There are 8,400,000 different species of life, and you can be transferred to any one of them. If you are transferred to become a tree... Just like I've seen in San Francisco. They said that "This tree is standing for seven thousand years." They stand up on the bench for seven thousand years. The boys are sometimes punished by the teachers in the school, "Stand up on the bench." So these trees are punished, "Stand up," by nature's law. So there is chance of becoming a tree, there is chance of becoming a dog, a cat, or even a rat. So many lives there are. Don't miss this opportunity of human form of life. Perfect your love of Kṛṣṇa and be happy in this life and next life.

So this initiation... As many of our students are initiated, so some of our students are going to be initiated this evening. The initiation means the third stage of joining this movement. The first stage is śraddhā, a little faith. Just like our students are going in the marketplace, they are chanting, and many people are contributing some money; *somebody's purchasing our Back to Godhead. This is the beginning of faith: "Oh, here is a nice movement. Let me cooperate." Ādau śraddhā. Then, if he becomes little more interested, then he comes here, into the class. "All right, let us see what these people are teaching, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So they come. So that is the second stage. The first stage is automatic sympathy for this movement. The second stage is joining or associating with this, our activities. Just like you have kindly come here. You are hearing me. Similarly, if somebody becomes more interested or his faith is still further advanced, then he comes, that is the second stage. And the third stage is... Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅga atha bhajana-kriyā [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Now, the initiation means beginning of the activities. Beginning of the activities. How one can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the perfectional state, that is called initiation. It is not that initiation means finished. It is the third stage. Then the fourth stage will be, one who is initiated, if he follows the rules and regulation, and if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa with a fixed-up counting, then gradually his all misgivings will vanish. What are the misgivings? We ask our students to refrain from that illicit sex life, nonvegetarian diet, and intoxication, and to take part in gambling. These four things. So ordinarily these four things are very prominent in the society, especially in the Western countries. But these students who take initiation and follows chanting, they very easily give up these four things without any difficulty. That is called anartha nivṛtti. That is the fourth stage. The fifth stage is then he becomes fixed up: "Yes." Just like one student, Mr. Anderson, I've not seen him, but simply by associating with our other devotees, he has written that "I wish to devote my whole being for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This is called niṣṭhā, fixed up. Tato niṣṭhā tato ruci. Ruci means they get a taste. Why these boys are going out? This chanting, they have got a taste. They have developed a taste. Otherwise for nothing they are not wasting time. They are educated, they are grown up. So taste. Fixed up, then taste, tathāsaktis. When the taste is, then attachment. He cannot give it up. And I receive so many letters. Some students, they could not cope with their Godbrothers, they go away, but they'll write that "I cannot go. I cannot go." He's captured. You see? Umāpati has written that letter, that he becomes in difficulty, he cannot live, he cannot l-i-v-e or l-e-a-v-e. He's in Dallas. You see? He cannot quit the company, or some misunderstanding, he cannot live with Godbrothers. But that is temporary. So that is called asaktiḥ, attachment. Tathāsaktis tato bhāva. Then gradually increasing, some ecstatic position, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. And then perfectional stage, that he loves Kṛṣṇa cent percent. So this is the process.

So this initiation means the third stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are being initiated, they should remember that they have to follow the rules and regulations. Just like if a man wants to be cured from a certain type of disease, he has to follow the regulation given by the physician, and that will help him to recover from the illness very quickly. So these four principles of restriction they should follow, and chant at least sixteen rounds daily, and gradually he'll get fixed up in this conviction and will have attachment and taste, and then love of Kṛṣṇa will automatically... It is there in everyone's heart. Love of Kṛṣṇa, it is not a foreign thing that we are imposing. No. It is there, everywhere, in every living entity. Otherwise how these American boys and girls are taking it if it is not there? It is there. I am simply helping. Just like matches: there is fire, and one can help only simply rubbing, that's all. There is fire. You cannot get fire rubbing two, I mean to say, sticks, if there is no, that chemicals on the top. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart; simply one has to revive it by this association, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness association. So it is neither difficult, nor impractical, nor very unpalatable. Everything is nice. So our request to everyone that let them take this munificent gift of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting, and you'll be happy. That is our program.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Give him. You want to ask me anything?

Young man: Excuse me?



Prabhupāda: You want to ask me anything?



Young man: No.



Prabhupāda: That's good. Now do it like that (as) I have done. Yes, like that. Three times that. Once more, yes. Touch in your mouth. Yes. Take little. Take little water and wash your hand. Yes. Throw it. That's all. Do like that. (devotees chanting) Left. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



(devotees respond) Again do it. Like that. Take water and then drink. [break] Nama apavitraḥ... (repeats) Do it again. (Prabhupāda chants mantras for fire sacrifice, devotees responding) Thank you. Now give me beads. Beads. Somebody. (Prabhupāda chants on beads, devotees chant japa) What is your name?



Bill: Bill.



*Prabhupāda: So your spiritual name is Vilāsa*-vigraha. Vilāsa-vigraha. V-i-l-a-s-v-i-g-r-a-h-a. Vilāsa-vigraha. You begin from here, big bead: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This finger you should not touch. Similarly next. In this way you come to this side, again begin from here to this side. Your Godbrothers will teach you. And there are ten kinds of offenses which you shall avoid. That I shall explain. You have got paper, that ten kinds of offense?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Bow down. (word by word with boy repeating:)



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) Your name?



Rob: Rob.



*Prabhupāda: Rob. So your spiritual name is Revatīnandana. R*-e-v-a-t-i, Revatī, nandana, n-a-n-d-a-n. Revatīnandana means son of Revatī. Revatī was one of the wives of Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa's stepmother. And Balarāma was his son. So Revatīnandana means Balarāma. Revatīnandana dāsa brahmacārī, your name. Chant beginning from here and then so on. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then next. In this way, you come this side, again begin from here. Your Godbrothers will teach. Bow down. Bow down. (boy responding:)



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



Now take your beads. Begin. Chant. (japa) What is this made of? Metal? Why it is so weighty, this?



Young man: It's a seed, Swamijī.



Prabhupāda: Oh, it is seed? What is that seed?



Young man: I don't know. A big seed.



*Prabhupāda: It is very weighty. Just like bullet. Kṛṣṇa bullet. (laughter) (japa) So your spiritual name is Śrīmatī dāsī. Śrīmatī. S*-r-i-m-a-t-i. Śrīmatī dāsī. Śrīmatī means Rādhārāṇī.



Śrīmatī: Means what?



Prabhupāda: Śrīmatī means Rādhārāṇī. So Rādhārāṇī dāsī means you are maidservant of Rādhārāṇī. Don't think that you are maidservant of this world. (chuckles) It is very fortunate to become maidservant of Rādhārāṇī. Yes. So Śrīmatī dāsī, your name. So you'll chant beginning from here, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then next. In this way come this side and again begin. Sixteen rounds at least. (Śrīmatī repeating:)



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



All right. Take. Be happy.



Śrīmatī: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: So where is that paper, ten kinds of offenses? Where is that paper? There are three stages of chanting. What is that?



Young man: It is a picture she drew.



Prabhupāda: Oh, you have drawn this? Good. Very nice. Thank you very much.



Jāhnavā: With your blessing, would you give this to Sharon? Would you give this to Sharon with your blessing?



Young man: Śrīmatī dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Oh. It is a presentation. (chuckles)



Śrīmatī: Thank you.



Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Should I read the ten offenses?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Madhudviṣa: We have them here.



Prabhupāda: Just see. Go on reading. Yes, you read.



*Madhudviṣa: "The ten offenses to avoid while chanting the mahā*-mantra. Number one: Blaspheming the Lord's devotee."



Prabhupāda: Now just try to understand. Any devotee of Lord should not be blasphemed. It doesn't matter in any country. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he is a great devotee. And even Muhammad, he's also a devotee. It is not that because we are devotee and they are not devotee. Don't think like that. Anyone who is preaching the glories of God, he is a devotee. He should not be blasphemed. You should be careful. Then?



Madhudviṣa: "Number two: Considering the Lord and other demigods on the same level or assuming there are many Gods."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are many nonsense, they say that demigods... Of course, you have no affairs with demigods. Vedic religion there are hundreds and thousands of demigods. Especially it is going on that either you worship Kṛṣṇa or Lord Śiva or Kali, the same thing. This is nonsense. You should not, I mean to, place on the same level with the Supreme Lord. Nobody is greater than Lord. Nobody is equal than the Lord. So this equality should be avoided. Then?



Madhudviṣa: "Number three: Neglecting the orders of the spiritual master."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual master's order should be as your life and soul. Then everything will be clear. Then?



Madhudviṣa: "Number four: Minimizing the authority of the *Vedas*."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody should minimize the authorized scripture. This is also offense. Then?



Madhudviṣa: "Number five: Interpreting the holy names of God."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, just like the other day some boy was: "a symbolic." It is not symbolic. Kṛṣṇa... We are chanting "Kṛṣṇa," addressing Kṛṣṇa. Hare means addressing Kṛṣṇa's energy, and we are praying that "Please engage me in Your service." That is Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no other interpretation. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The only prayer is, "O the energy of Lord, O Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Rāma, please engage me in Your service." That's all. There is no other second interpretation. Then?



Madhudviṣa: "Number six: Committing sin on the strength of chanting."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Now this initiation, from this day your account, past life, all sinful activities, is now what is called, adjusted. Closed. It is finished. Now because by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa you can finish your sinful activities' reaction, that does not mean that you will repeat: "Oh, I shall commit sinful activities and I shall chant. It will be adjusted. The balance will be nil." No. Not like that. Don't commit that. Whatever is done is done. No more. Now there should be pure life. No illicit sex life, no intoxication, no gambling, and no meat*-eating. Finished now. It is not that "Oh, I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let me go to the hotel and take some meat." No. Then it will be a great sin. Don't do that. Then the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa will not fructify if you commit offense. Next?



Madhudviṣa: "Number seven: Instructing the Lord's name to the unfaithful."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Unfaithful, those who have no faith, that Lord and His name are absolute. Just like here in this material world, the name and the person is different. Suppose your name is Mr. John. So if I chant "John, John, John," so John may be a hundred miles away. There is no response. But the name, holy name of God, God is present everywhere. Just like the television. Television is being, I mean to say, released in some place. If you have got the machine, immediately the picture is in your room. If it is, materially, it can be so possible, how much possibility there is in spiritual Kṛṣṇa name? Immediately you chant Kṛṣṇa's name, that means Kṛṣṇa is immediately on your tongue. So what is that?



Madhudviṣa: Seven? "Instructing the holy name to the unfaithful."



*Prabhupāda: So, one who has no faith that the name of the Lord and the Lord Himself the same, there is no difference, one should not be instructed about the glories of the Lord. He should be instructed to understand, but if he's unable to understand, then he should not be initiated. He should require some time to understand. But you should always remember that nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ: [Cc. Madhya 17.133] Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name nondifferent. As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that means Kṛṣṇa is dancing on your tongue. You should be careful in that way. Just like if Kṛṣṇa... As you offer so much respect to your spiritual master as soon as he's present, so if Kṛṣṇa is present on your tongue, how much careful you should be. So you should always know that Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is always everywhere. God is everywhere, but we have no realization. But this particular chanting, as soon as chant holy name, that means you must know. So by associating with Kṛṣṇa you become purified. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ. Just like associating with fire you become warm, similarly, associate with Kṛṣṇa means you become purified. Gradually you become spiritualized. No more material. Finished. This is the process. Then?



Madhudviṣa: "Number eight: Comparing the holy name to material piety."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now this function is being done. It should not be taken that we are doing something, religious rituals. No. Religious ritual is different thing. This is... Although it appears like rituals, but it is transcendental. It is above all kinds of religion. It is postgraduate study. The process is how to develop love of Godhead. This is above all rel... Religion means, generally, some kind of faith. But it is not the question of faith. It is actually developing, how much you are loving Kṛṣṇa, or God. So it is above all religions. It is not ordinary religion. Religion means... Suppose you are Christian, I am Hindu. As soon as this body is finished, my Christianism or religion, everything is finished. But this love of God will not finish. It will go with you. Any birth you go, it will develop. If you can finish, then you go directly to Kṛṣṇa, back to Godhead, and finish your all material connection. Even if you are not able, then it goes with you. Asset. It is... The bank balance will not be diminished. It will increase. Then?



Madhudviṣa: "Number nine: Inattentive while chanting the holy name."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. While you are chanting we should hear also. That is meditation. Hare Kṛṣṇa, these two words, Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll hear also. If you hear, then your mind and your tongue both captivated. That is perfect. Therefore meditation, the first*-class yoga, hearing and chanting. Then?



Madhudviṣa: Then finally number ten: "Attachment to material things while engaged in the practice of chanting."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole process is that we are going to transfer our love from matter to God. So we should try to minimize. It will be automatically. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. If you actually develop love of Godhead, then naturally you forget to love all these material nonsense. That is sequence. But you should try also. You should... This will happen. Just like if we eat, then gradually you minimize your hankering after eating. When you are full, then you say, "I don't want any more. Yes, I am..." Similarly... [break] ...so nice that with the progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness you forget the so*-called material nonsense enjoyment. And when you are in perfect stage, oh, you don't care for anything of this material nonsense. This is the test. You cannot say "I am progressing in meditation by my material attachment to all sense gratification" is the same. That is no progress. Progress means that you will minimize your material attachment for sense gratification. This is progress. Now you can chant... Ah, you have got... Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





681201IN.LA

Talk, Initiation Lecture,

and Ten Offenses Lecture

-

Los Angeles, December 1, 1968



*Prabhupāda: ...worship prevents snake biting. That is a village worship. So in every demigod worship there are drum beaters. So a party of drum beaters were engaged, and when the fees, bill, of the drum beaters was to be paid, the demigod Mansa(?) was sold. They could not pay the bills. Similarly, we may print our books, but the binding charges are so high, then it will cost more than getting it from Japan. (chuckles) Jayānanda looks like Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughter) Yes. He was tall and stout and strong, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughing) Yes. Very good. And in Vṛndāvana, when Kīrtanānanda was given sannyāsa, he was looking so nice with this dress and daṇḍa, oh, practically all the devotees of Vṛndāvana came to offer him respect. Yes. On Janmāṣṭamī day I offered him sannyāsa. So many devotees came to see in the temple. So there was a big crowd. He was looking very nice. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also very fair*-complexioned. So with this dress, persons with fair complexion looks very nice, very attractive. People are not attracted with this dress in kīrtana party? (laughs) This bare head with tilaka and this dress, they will know that they are coming from, directly from the kingdom of God. (laughs) Actually it is so. They have forgotten God; otherwise they would have received these brahmacārīs so nicely. In India, oh, you'll be received just like gods with this dress. Hundreds and thousands of people will come to receive you. Yes. That is sufficient. (kīrtana) So how Bīrabhadra is feeling? (Bīrabhadra answers?) He has got pains in the body?



Viṣṇujana: He's all right.



Prabhupāda: All right. Eating all right? Eating? (Bīrabhadra answers; Prabhupāda can't hear) Hm? Chanting all right? All right. Thanks. (chuckles) I was just searching you, missing you. You are here. (chuckles) Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) Do like that. As I have done. Yes. Take water. Yes. Little, little. Yes. Once more. Three times. Yes. Yes. Take water. Take water little, wash hand, throw it here. That's all. Like that. Now you do it like that. Little, little. Keep it here. (chants with devotees responding:)



nama apavitraḥ pavitra vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



Now do it again like that. Keep there.



nama apavitraḥ pavitra vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



Do it again. (repeats mantra again)



Now the purport of this mantra I have several times explained, again explaining. Namaḥ. Namaḥ means surrender. Namaḥ om namaḥ, this is the way of chanting Vedic mantra. Oṁ means addressing the Absolute, and namaḥ means "I am surrendering." Every Vedic mantra is begun om namaḥ. Oṁ means addressing. So this mantra is chanted with surrender, namaḥ. Nothing can be done without surrender because our, this conditional life is rebellious life. We have rebelled against the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead. That is conditioned life. There are so many theses to support this rebellious condition. Somebody is thinking that "I am one with God"; somebody is thinking, "God is dead"; somebody is thinking, "There is no God"; *somebody is thinking, "Why you are searching God? There are so many Gods loitering in the street." So in this way many theses are there. All of them are different symptoms of rebellious condition. The sum and substance... Just like atheists, they are boldly saying, "There is no God." Now..., but the impersonalists saying, "There may be God, but He has no head, He has no tail. That's all." So in this way our condition is rebellious condition. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā instructs that "You surrender." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So without surrender, there is no question of making any spiritual progress. Just like a person who has rebelled against the government*-the first condition is to surrender; otherwise there is no question of mercy from the government. Similarly anyone, the living entity, any one of us who has rebelled against the supremacy of the Lord, the beginning of spiritual life is surrender.

*So this mantra, initiation, namaḥ. Namaḥ means surrender. And who can surrender? Surrender, one who has understood the Lord, he can surrender, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of cultivation of knowledge, when one is perfectly wise, at that time he surrenders. The perfection of acquiring knowledge, or wisdom, is to surrender. So, namaḥ. Namaḥ means "I surrender." And what is your condition? Never mind what is that condition. Apavitraḥ pavitro vā. Apavitraḥ means contaminated, and pavitra means liberated. So we have two conditions. Either... Just like either we are healthy or we are diseased. There is no third condition. Crude example. Similarly, the living entities, they have two conditions. One condition is liberation, another condition is contaminated. Therefore living entity is called marginal, in between contamination and liberation. Either a living entity can be contaminated or liberated. There is no third condition. Therefore this mantra says, apavitraḥ pavitro vā. Either contaminated or liberated, it doesn't matter. Oṁ namo apavitraḥ pavitro, sarvāvasthām. Sarva means all; avasthām means condition. In any condition. Sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. In whatever condition you may be. Because two conditions there are. For the living entities... The living entity is in the marginal position. Either he can be in material nature or in the spiritual nature. The spiritual nature means liberation, and material nature means contamination. So in this mantra it is said, either of the condition, never mind. Either you are in material condition or spiritual condition. Sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. Vā means either; yaḥ, anyone; smaret, smaret means remembers; *puṇḍarīkākṣam, puṇḍarīkākṣam means whose eyes are just like lotus petal. That means Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bahya... Bahya means externally. Externally, this body. Abhyantaram. Abhyantaram means internally. Internally I am spirit. Just like internally, within this dress, I am internally. Externally I am this dress. Similarly, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam. Either he is in the bodily concept of life or he is in the spiritual concept of life, either he is contaminated or he is liberated*-in any condition, one who remembers Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, bahyābhyantaram, he immediately becomes purified internally and externally. This is the substance of this mantra.

*And at the last we are chanting śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu. Because it may not be misunderstood that in this verse it is said that yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam, "anyone who remembers the lotus*-eyed." So somebody may think, "My such and such lover is lotus-eyed," or in that way, lotus-eyed. There may be so many lotus-eyed. Therefore at last it is specifically said, śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu. "Lotus-eyed" means Viṣṇu, not anybody else. Śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu. This is the basic principle of devotional life. In Nārada Pañcarātra it is recommended... We are explaining these things in Nectar of Devotion. The basic principle of purification is smartavyaḥ satato viṣṇuḥ: always one has to remember Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu the same. When you speak Kṛṣṇa, it includes Viṣṇu. So smartavyaḥ satato viṣṇu vismartavyaḥ na jātucit. We shall not forget Viṣṇu even for a moment. This is the basic principle of devotional life. Some way or other, we have to remember always Kṛṣṇa. Then whatever condition we may be, we are pure. Sa bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. This chanting helps us always remembering Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, hear, immediately we remember. So, so long I remember, I am śuciḥ, I am pure, no material contamination. Therefore if I continue my life in that pure stage, then I am eligible for going back to Godhead. Because nobody can enter in the kingdom of God without being completely pure. Completely pure means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], no material desire. Here in the material world, we manufacture so many plans to be happy, material desires. Somebody's thinking, "I shall be happy in this way." Somebody's thinking... There is no question of happiness here. The place is contaminated. In a contaminated... Just like in an infected place you cannot be happy. The medical officer will ask you to leave that place, that "This quarter has been infected by the disease. Better you leave, you go somewhere else." That is the treatment. Infected place must be left immediately. So similarly, this world, this material world of three modes of different qualities, you have to keep yourself always antiseptic, pure, by remembering Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. As soon as you forget Kṛṣṇa, immediately the infection, māyā, immediately affects you. Kṛṣṇa bhūliya jīva bhoga-vāñchā kare.

What is that māyā? Māyā means to plan how to become materially happy. This is māyā. All the people of the world, they are simply making plan how they will be happy within this material world. That's all. This is māyā. The history of the whole world studied, it is experience that the Roman Empire planned, the British Empire planned, the... So many empires, they flourish sometimes. All fail. The Britishers, they were, two hundred years ago, they were planning to rule over this vast land of America. George Washington declared independence; *their plan failed. Similarly, in India they were planning to exploit. Now Gandhi's movement made it fail. So this is bigger plan. Similarly smaller plan also. There are many... Individually, we make so many plans that "I shall be happy in this way, in that way, in that way." So this plan-making business is māyā, because that will never be successful. Trace out the history of the whole world. Nobody has become happy. Hitler made a plan, so great a plan. You see? He was frustrated. So the sane man, intelligent man... Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says that a person who is actually intelligent, wise... How a man becomes wise? After being baffled or frustrated many, many times, he can understand this is not the process. And the Vedānta-sūtra also places the first, athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is frustrated in all plan*-making business, for him, the Vedānta-sūtra gives him the opportunity, "Now your all plans have failed. Come here." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now try to understand what is Brahman." This is the first aphorism of Vedānta-sūtra. Just try to understand Brahman. So in this way... This initiation also. Initiation means the first beginning, how to become purified. This is initiation. Because this devotional service means the process of purification. Now every one of you, individually you can understand how you are becoming purified from your past life. That is practical. Yes. How you are becoming purified. So this initiation means the beginning of purificatory process. And the purificatory process, what is that? This mantra, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. Anyone who always remembers, or whenever he remembers, if not always, as soon as he remembers, puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ, he becomes immediately purified internally and externally.

*So those who are going to be initiated today, they should remember that... Not only they*-all of us should remember. It is not that we have passed all examination. No. Māyā is very strong. Any moment she can catch up. (chuckles) As soon as... Just like a virulent type of disease, as soon as there is little negligence, there is relapse immediately, typhoid. So the doctors take very much precautionary steps in the, what is called, convalescent stage of cure because there is chance of relapse. Similarly, we are trying to be purified. This initiation means to accept the path of purification. Now we have to continue that path of purification, and then, if you are strong enough, then we can very easily make progress to achieve the ultimate result. There is no doubt about it. So bhakti-mārga, this devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, means to remember always Kṛṣṇa. Smartavyaḥ satato viṣṇuḥ vismartavyaḥ na jātucit. This is the basic principle, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We should always remember Kṛṣṇa and we shall never forget. And the very simple method, that we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa has given us tongue, so we can utilize it, and this is the beginning of spiritual life. This is the beginning of understanding God, or Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we cannot understand what is God. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Nāmādi, God has name. People say, "Why there should be name of God? He has no name." The impersonalist says "Nameless." Why? The Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "Everything is generated from Him." So if there is name, you have got name, I have got name, anything... This tape recorder has got name, this plate has got name, the place has got name, the carpet has got name, and simply God has no name? Why? (laughs) Just see the fallacy. The fountainhead of all names is God, and He has no name. You see? He is zero. These are the arguments. But we don't accept. The thing is they do not know the name because their senses are not purified. You cannot understand God by imperfect senses. Therefore Bhāgavata says, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Nāmādi. Nāma means name; ādi, because name is the beginning of everything. Just like if I want to make friendship with you, I ask you, "What is your name?" That is the beginning. If you go to the court, before beginning the judgment, "What is your name? What is your father's name?" You submit any application, "What is your name?" So nāmādi.

*So if we want to understand the Supreme Absolute Truth, we should begin from the name, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, the name, the holy name. But we cannot understand whether this is the name of God due to our imperfect senses. Therefore the formula is, ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. You cannot understand. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, somebody is taking pleasure in hearing the name of Kṛṣṇa. Somebody may say, "What is this nonsense? They are disturbing," because he has no knowledge of the name. But this name... Not any name. Nāmādi, beginning from name. First of all name, then quality, then form, then pastimes, then entourage. In this way God has everything. When we say "king," "king" means his kingdom, his palace, his secretary, his queen, so many, his government, go on expanding, so many things, simply by one word, "king." "King" does not mean simply one person. Similarly, when we say "God" or "Kṛṣṇa," immediately it is to be understood that He has so many things behind Him. So many... The whole world is behind Him. So how to understand? Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. His name, His quality, His forms, His entourage, His expansion. Na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. These indriya, these senses, materially contaminated, cannot understand, cannot grasp what is the name of Kṛṣṇa, what is the form of Kṛṣṇa, what is the quality of Kṛṣṇa. Then? "Why you are taking so much trouble? If by these senses we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of wasting time?" No. The next line is, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. You cannot understand by exercising your senses, but He reveals. To whom? Who is in the service attitude, jihvādau, beginning from the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Of all the senses, the tongue is considered to be the principal sense. So tongue, if the tongue is trained, or the tongue is spiritualized, then naturally all the senses become spiritualized. So jihvādau. So our training is the tongue training. Train it chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and let it taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Then what will be? The all other senses... There are five senses for acquiring knowledge, five senses for acting. Everything will be controlled. And devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. By contacting relationship with Kṛṣṇa, the senses become purified. And what is the symptom of purification? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam, to become uncontaminated by the designative material identification. There are so many things.

*So the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is purification of the senses, and the purification of senses begins by training the tongue with service spirit. So those who are going to be initiated, they should, especial... Everyone should note it, that we should train our tongue not to talk nonsense things. You see? Simply talk of Kṛṣṇa. We have got so many subject matter. We have got Bhagavad*-gītā, we have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we have got Teachings of Lord Caitanya-so many books, hundreds and thousands, Upaniṣads, Veda, Vedānta, any one you select-talk. Just like Ambarīṣa. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he set a very nice example, that he fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and when he was speaking, he was talking about Kṛṣṇa. So just try to utilize your tongue. It doesn't matter whether it is contaminated or purified, but the process is purificatory. You just train your tongue nicely, engage in Kṛṣṇa. So if you can talk, you go, preach, talk of Kṛṣṇa, talk of Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, lecture anywhere. Then you'll be doing the best service to the people and to yourself. If you think that you are unable to give speeches, then you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and eat prasādam. So there is no difficulty. So train the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234], beginning from the tongue, you shall be able to purify all your senses. And as soon as your senses are purified, you'll see Kṛṣṇa, you'll understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is His name, what is His form, what is His kingdom, everything will be. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. You haven't got to endeavor. As soon as your senses are purified, Kṛṣṇa is present. Just like as soon as the night is over, the sun is present. You cannot search out sun in the darkness. You simply wait for the morning and the sun is at your door. Similarly, try to drive away the darkness, and Kṛṣṇa you'll see. You'll see, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is not dead. He's so nice." So this initiation means beginning of purificatory process of the senses, and that beginning with the tongue. Very simple method. We are not asking you to show some gymnastic feats, or... No. Simply try to control your tongue. It is in your hand. And what is the means of controlling? Just engage chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa prasāda. Some others will supply you nice prasādam. You see? It is very easy. Don't take anything which is not Kṛṣṇa prasādam and don't talk anything which is not Kṛṣṇa. Then you become liberated. Your path of liberation is open. Two things: don't talk anything except Kṛṣṇa, don't eat anything except Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Is it very difficult? All right.

(to devotee:) Now give me your beads. Yes. Beginning from here. Somebody tie his small beads. Chant, you. (japa) Bow down. Bow down here.

*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



*(devotee repeating) So you'll begin from one side like this, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Come to this side. You will ask your Godbrothers. They'll let you know, how they are doing. Your spiritual name is Aravinda. Aravinda. A*-r-a-v-i-n-d-a. Aravinda. Aravindākṣa. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Aravindākṣa. Aravinda means lotus flower.



Devotees: Oh!



Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa's eyes are just like lotus petal and His feet is lotus feet. His abdomen, from abdomen lotus grows. So therefore in one word He is lotus, full lotus. (aside:) He's in painful condition?



Viṣṇujana: He has to rest. He has to rest now. (boy crying in background)



Prabhupāda: Just catch him. Oh. Aravindākṣa is Kṛṣṇa's name. So Aravinda dāsa, your name. Aravinda dāsa brahmacārī. Now we have forgotten to chant the preliminary mantras. Vande ahaṁ śrī guru... (chants mantras, devotees respond) (japa) Bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



Śrīvāsa... Now, you are finished. Take it. Your name is Gajendra.



Gajendra: Gajendra?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. G*-a-j-e-n-d-r-a. Gajendra. Gaja means elephant, and indra means king. King of the elephants.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!



Prabhupāda: So there was a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa who was king of the elephants. So you shall bring some elephants for us for preaching work. Come on. You have got printed ten kinds of offenses? They should be... To avoid the offenses.



Madhudviṣa: Right here.



Revatīnandana: Here it is, Prabhupāda. Should I read, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Revatīnandana: "The ten offenses to avoid in chanting the mahā*-mantra. The first is blaspheming the Lord's devotee." Just read them?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: "Second, considering the Lord and other demigods on the same level."



Prabhupāda: This is very important point, blaspheming the devotees. The Lord's devotee, in many countries, many places... Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he's also devotee of Lord. Muhammad, he's also devotee of Lord. So it is not that because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we shall unnecessarily decry any other parts, any other devotee. It may be, according to time, place, and country, the method may be different, but anyone who is preaching devotion to God, he's a devotee of God. So he should never be blasphemed. Yes.



Revatīnandana: "Two. Considering the Lord and other demigods on the same level."



Prabhupāda: Yes. One should not put the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Just like the Māyāvādī says, "The demigods and God, they are all the same." Because according to them, God has no form, so any form you accept, imagine, as the form of God, it is as good. But that is not the fact. There are demigods and the Supreme God also. So we should not place... Just like demigod, Lord Brahmā or Lord Śiva, Indra, Candra, they are demigods. So we should not place... In one sense, there is nothing except God, because everything expansion of God. But that does not mean I am equal to God. I am also expansion of God, that's a fact. Just like father and the son. Son is the expansion of father; still, the son is not the father. Don't mistake that. There is no difference between father and son because the same body is expanded as son, but still, the son is not the father. Father is father, son is son. This, I mean to say, variety, the Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not understand. Then?



Revatīnandana: "...or assuming that there are many Gods."



Prabhupāda: God is one. There cannot be many Gods. If God is not one, there is no meaning of God. God means, according to Vedic definition, asamordhva. Asama means one who has no equal. Nobody is equal to God. And urdhva means nobody is greater than God. God is great. Nobody can be greater than God. Therefore God is one. Nobody is greater, nobody is equal. That means everyone is lower. Then?



Revatīnandana: "Neglecting the orders of the spiritual master."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is one offense. These are offenses. When we accept spiritual master, it is understood that you cannot deny his order. Just like Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna was talking as friends, but when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master, he was simply hearing, and whenever there was difficulty to understand, he was questioning. Not that he was equally arguing with Kṛṣṇa. Before accepting Him, he was arguing. So this is the position. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool [Cc. Adi 7.71]." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not a fool, but it is the good qualification of a disciple to remain a fool before the spiritual master. Therefore he'll never, I mean to say, dare to argue or disobey. That is offense. Now, go on. That does not mean that when you cannot understand, you cannot question. Question must be there. That is stated in this Bhagavad*-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Your relationship is to know from a spiritual master everything, but you should know that with three things. What is that? First of all you should surrender. You must accept the spiritual master as greater than you. Otherwise what is the use of accepting one spiritual master? Praṇipāt. Praṇipāt means surrendering; and paripraśna, and questioning; and sevā, and service. There must be two sides, service and surrender, and in the middle there must be question. Otherwise there is no question and answer. Two things must be there: service and surrender. Then answer of question is nice. Yes.



Revatīnandana: "The fourth offense is minimizing the authority of the *Vedas*."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Scriptures, authority of Vedas, they must be accepted. Just like the other day I was explaining, the Veda says the conchshell is pure although it is a bone of an animal. In other places Veda gives you the injunction that bone of an animal is impure. But it says the conchshell is pure. It can be placed before the Deity, it can be used in the Deity room in His service. Now there may be argument, "Oh, this is a bone of an animal. How is that? Contradiction." No. So one should accept the injunction of the Vedas like that. Whenever it says this is impure, it is impure; *when it says it is pure, it is pure. Now if there is any doubt, that should be understood by questioning submissively and with service from the spiritual master. The spiritual master is there. Then? But we should always accept the injunction of the scripture as truth. Just like there is a proverb, "Bible truth," "Biblical truth." Nobody can deny Bible. This should be the attitude. Bible is also part of Vedas. Therefore Vedic injunction should be accepted as it is, without any interpretation. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā is Veda. Why Veda? The Supreme Personality of Godhead personally speaking; *therefore it is Veda. There is no mistake. One should accept*-no interpretation-as it is. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Yes. Go on.



Revatīnandana: "The fifth offense is interpreting the holy names of God."



Prabhupāda: Yes. No interpretation in the holy... Just like Kṛṣṇa, the Māyāvādī philosophers may... Just like Gandhi has written, "Pāṇḍava means the senses; Kurukṣetra means this body; Kṛṣṇa means the mind." No such nonsense interpretation. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Go on.



Revatīnandana: "The sixth offense is committing sin on the strength of chanting."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have explained the mantra that as soon as one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately, bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ, he becomes purified. Now if one takes advantage of this holy name, "Let me commit sins..." Just like sometimes in the Christian church they take advantages that by confessing sin one becomes free from sinful reaction. So go to church and confess, and again come out and do all sorts of sins, and again confess. This sort of (laughs) minimizing is nonsense. It is fact. When you confess before the church, before God, you are free from all sinful action. That's all right. But if you commit again, then next confession will not be accepted. They do not know this. You cannot... Suppose a child has committed some mistake. Father says, "All right, don't do this." If he again does it, there is no excuse. They do not know that. They think, "We shall commit sin and go to church and confess and finish. So let us do this balancing business." Yes. Similarly, don't do this balancing business, that "Because chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will wash off all my accounts of sinful activities, so in the morning, from morning to night, let me do all kinds of sinful activities, and at night, at bedtime, let me chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then finish." No. (laughs) Don't do that. Don't do that. That is the greatest offense. Yes. You'll never be forgiven. Those who purposely do like that-"I have got very nice instrument for washing off my sinful activities. So whole day let me do all sinful activities, and at night let me chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let me meditate. That's all. Finish."*-no. You should note that the name, the holy name has got the power. Now, from this date, you are free from all sinful activities, reaction. But don't do it. That is the greatest offense. Yes.



Revatīnandana: "The seventh offense is instructing the Lord's name to the unfaithful."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who do not believe in God, atheists, what is the use of...? But not to bother him, but give him the chance of hearing. That will make him competent to come forward. Therefore we are distributing this holy name. Not that everyone will be immediately turned to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but we are giving chance. If they hear... You have got practical experience. Somebody's hearing, he's reforming. So we should give chance. But if one is staunch atheist, we should not talk very much with him about Kṛṣṇa. He may say something against, offensive. Yes. Then?



Revatīnandana: "The eighth offense is comparing the holy name to material piety."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. And another thing, just like we are holding this ceremony, initiation ceremony. It should not be accepted just we are functioning some ritualistic ceremony. No. It is different from ritualistic ceremony. Although it appears like ritualistic, it is transcendental. Ritualistic ceremony, they are meant for giving you advantage of become pious, from impious life. It also gives that, but this is not the ultimate aim. The ultimate aim is to give you love of God, which is far, far transcendental to the pious and impious activities. That is a different thing that belongs to the spiritual world*-love of God. It is not that it is a function to nullify your sinful activities. That is automatically done. Just like if you get one million dollars, the purpose of ten dollars automatically solved. Similarly, this acceptance of holy name of God will automatically wash off all your sinful reaction. That's a fact. But it is not meant for that purpose. It is meant for higher purpose, to attain to this platform of loving God, rendering transcendental loving service to the Lord. That is the aim. Yes.



Revatīnandana: "The ninth offense is inattentive while chanting the holy name."



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is ninth offense. While you chant, you hear also. You don't turn your attention to anything else, mechanically chanting and thinking of something. Thinking of Kṛṣṇa is all right, but if I think something which is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Best thing is that I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and each word I shall hear; then it will be very much effective. Yes.



Revatīnandana: "The tenth offense is attachment to material things while engaged in the practice of chanting."



Prabhupāda: That I explained. This is the disease, ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. The material disease means I am thinking this body, "I am," and everything belonging to this body or in relationship with the body-"Mine." This is material disease. So we shall see. By chanting we shall see how much we are making progress, how much I am free from these two concept of life, that "I am this body, and anything belonging to this body is mine." This is the test, how we are becoming free from these two concept of life. If there is still the concept that "I am this body, and anything belonging to this body is mine," then you have to chant very cautiously to make progress. That's all. These ten kinds of offenses you should guard against. [break] (japa) (leads girl in chanting:)



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



*Come on. Your new name, Anurādhā. A*-n-u-r-a-d-h-a. Anurādhā. Anu. Anu means one who follows, and Rādhā, Rādhārāṇī you know. So one who follows Rādhārāṇī. Wherever Rādhārāṇī goes, she follows.



Devotees: Oh!



Prabhupāda: Yes. Anurādhā. (japa) Nama apavitraḥ pavitra vā... (chants fire sacrifice mantras) No, no. Everyone take little little. Very little, little take, everyone. Let him come. You come also. You take. Your yajña is not... You can take. (continues mantres) Svāhā. Offer. Svāhā. Three times. I shall say svāhā three times; *you'll offer. Why don't you... Svāhā. Why you are sitting? Take and offer. You keep in hand and three times in three division you'll offer. Everyone take. Nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya... (continues) Now take each one banana. Stand up.



*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



(repeats twice) Now put this banana slowly like this. Put everyone. That's right.



Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare



*(repeats, with devotees responding) Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? No, I'll not chant. They'll chant. Chant. (kīrtana, prema*-dhvanī) (end)





681219IN.LA

Initiation Lecture

-

Los Angeles, December 19, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Just like... I am not criticizing, but it is, I mean to say, a human consideration. Suppose if you have committed some wrong thing within our jurisdiction and you come to me, "Swamijī, I have committed this." So I say, "All right. Don't do it again. Excused." Now, second day you come again. You say, "I have committed this." All right. Second day I can also excuse. The third day also, I can excuse, but fourth day I'll not excuse. Don't make it official business. Just like go to the church every week and confess and... Confessing your sinful activities before Lord Jesus Christ or his representative, surely your sinful activities are squared up. But does it mean, very nice, that every week, the whole week you shall commit sinful activities, and at the end of the week you shall go and confess? Does it look very well? You are not ashamed that "Every week I commit these sinful activities, and on the seventh day I confess"? This process should not be adopted, that because God's name, God's remembrance actually squares up all of our sinful activities. That's a fact. But how it is that we shall go on committing sinful activities and square it up by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa or by confessing? No. This is the particular point. One should carefully note. Just like Jagāi*-Mādhāi. Jagāi-Mādhāi, they were the greatest sinful men during Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. So when they surrendered to Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu with confession, "My Lord, we have committed so many sinful activities. Please save us," that Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked them that "Yes, I will accept you and I'll save you, provided you promise that no more you shall commit such sinful activities." So they agreed, "Yes. Whatever we have done, that's all right. No more we are going to do it." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted them and they became great devotee and their life was successful.



*The same process is here also. This initiation means that you should, everyone should remember that whatever sinful activities one might have done in his past life, that is now account closed. Debit and credit closed. Now, from this day, no more sinful activities. What are those sinful activities? That is simple. We have mentioned. You should take it note. No illicit sex life. Beyond marriage, there is no sex life. No intoxication. Even drinking tea, coffee, they are also intoxication*-cigarette smoking. No intoxication. No meat-eating. Simple. Only Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Whatever... If you remain in the temple you will get Kṛṣṇa prasādam, and if not, outside you prepare your capati, dahl, offer to Kṛṣṇa and take. Don't take anything except Kṛṣṇa prasāda. The third... And no gambling or unnecessary sporting. People are wasting time. So many sportings they have invented-sporting balls, this ball, that ball. You see? Human life is very short. We do not know when we shall die. Before that, we must prepare ourself for the next life. Next life means directly going back to Kṛṣṇa, highest perfection. As you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. There are innumerable varieties of planet. The higher planetary system, they are resided by demigods, very powerful. They are also human beings, but they are very beautiful; *they are very powerful. So you can go there. The moon planet, sun planet*-that is clearly stated-if you act accordingly, as they are prescribed, that "If you want to go to the moon planet, you have to do like this," then after leaving this body, you can go there. Similarly, you can go any planet. Similarly, you can go to the planet of Kṛṣṇa. So those who are intelligent, they are not concerned with..., any more with any planet within this material world. Because wherever you go, the four principles of material miseries, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, will follow. Either you go to the moon planet or sun planet or Venus planet or any planet. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. But that planet where going no more comes back in the material world, that is the most sublime planet. So we are... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are preparing living entities directly going back to Kṛṣṇa planet. The highest perfection. So this is opportunity. You have got human form of life. Now you have got our association. You have got all information from the Bhagavad-gītā. So the opportunity is there. Now if you don't utilize it, then you can commit your suicide. Nobody can check you. Otherwise you can utilize all these facilities and go directly to Kṛṣṇa.

*So this is the process. Initiation means beginning of that perfection. One has to utilize it properly, then there is no doubt. It is assured in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa assures if you believe in Kṛṣṇa, if you believe in His Personality of Godhead, then there cannot be any doubt. And let us execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulation, and then life is sure to be successful. Now chant mantra. Vande ahaṁ śrī guru (chants fire sacrifice prayers, devotees responding) Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...bead. In this way you come to this side. Again begin from here, come to this side. In this way sixteen rounds. If you feel difficulty you ask your Godbrothers. They'll give instruction. And your spiritual name is Kamalāsana dāsa.

Kamalāsana: Kamalāsana dāsa?



*Prabhupāda: K*-a-m-a-l-a, Kamala, s-a-n-a, āsana. Kamalāsana dāsa. Kamalāsana. Kamalāsana means Viṣṇu or Brahmā. Brahmā is also seated on the lotus sitting place. Āsana means sitting place, and kamala means lotus. You have seen Brahmā is sitting on kamala? Similarly, Viṣṇu is also sitting on kamala. So Kamalāsana dāsa means you are Viṣṇu dāsa. That is the meaning. Kamalāsana means Viṣṇu. This Viṣṇu picture, you see? This is Viṣṇu. So now we shall perform... Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (someone breaks stick for fire) Yes. Chant.



Govinda dāsī: Prabhupāda? Could you spell it so that I can...



*Prabhupāda: K*-a-m-a-l-a-s-a-n-a. Kamalāsana.



*Govinda dāsī: K*-a-m-a-l-a-s-a-n-a. Kamalāsana.



Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (sticks breaking, devotees chanting) Why so much? Least. Give me least. Not so much required. All right. When I shall say svāhā you'll take all, little, little. Oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarva... (chants prayers, devotees respond) Now bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana)



So in the morning, evening, the ārātrika should be performed, and this should be parikramā, circumambulating within this hall three times at least. These processes should be followed. Kṛṣṇa has given you nice place. You utilize it properly. So there are many other processes. Gradually, it will be introduced. All of a sudden, you cannot assimilate. (laughter) So this kīrtana, evening ārātrika and circumambulating... If possible, you can circumambulate around the temple so that others may see also what they're doing. Yes. If not, within the temple you can circumambulate. Now you can distribute prasādam. Today's function is finished. Where is some... No fruits? You have not arranged any fruits?

Devotee: I made some bread, too.



Prabhupāda: Fruits. Bread not required. That's all.



Bīrabhadra: I would like to know if it is all right to play the Battle of Kurukṣetra.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Bīrabhadra: Like, is it all right to pretend you're Bhīṣma and pretend...



Prabhupāda: What does he say?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to know if it's all right to make believe he's in the Battle of Kurukṣetra. Sometimes we are playing that he is Bhīṣma and one of us might be Arjuna or Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: No. No. You should not ever think that "I am Bhīṣma. I am Arjuna." No. Never think like that. You should always think that "I am the servant of Bhīṣma, servant of Arjuna, servant of Kṛṣṇa, servant of His servant." Never think... That is Māyāvāda. If I think I am Kṛṣṇa or if I think I am Bhīṣma, if I think I am Prahlāda, this is Māyāvāda. This monism, this is offense. Never think like that. You should always think that "I am servant of such devotee or Kṛṣṇa." Never think that "I am that." No.



Viṣṇujana: What he wants to know is that... He has a little kṣatriya blood in him. He likes to play. He likes to express his energy a lot, run around.



*Prabhupāda: That is different thing. Just like you have got the blood of your father. That does not mean you are father. That is different thing. Everything is one: Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between the philosophy of Māyāvāda and Vaiṣṇava. They simply take the One, but we take One, but there is diversity. That they do not understand. Actually, unity... Diversity in unity. Monism means they do not accept the diversity. They simply take that oneness. Oneness is certainly*-there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "I am everywhere spread." Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. "Everything, whatever you see, that is I am, but I am not there." Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ [Bg. 9.4]. They are existing. Everything existing in Kṛṣṇa. But that does not mean... Just like this table. The table is also Kṛṣṇa in one sense, because it is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore this is not different from Kṛṣṇa. But if you think that "Instead of worshiping Kṛṣṇa, let me worship this table," that is wrong, nonsense. This is the difference between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. The Māyāvāda philosophy says that even if I worship the table, it is all right. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. It is Māyāvāda philosophers said. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, table is existing in Me. I am also table. But I am not there." You see in the Bhagavad-gītā. So never think like that, that "I am Bhīṣma" or "I am Prahlāda" or "I am..." No. You are always servant of such devotee. That's all.



Bīrabhadra: If we pretend we're the servant of... If we pretend we're the servant of Bhīṣma and...



Prabhupāda: Servant of his servant [Cc. Madhya 13.80].



Bīrabhadra: Servant of the servant of Bhīṣma...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all.



Bīrabhadra: Is it all right to play the Battle of Kurukṣetra if you're the servant of the servant of Bhīṣma?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Viṣṇujana: Is it all right to play like he's fighting the battle as servant of the servant of Bhīṣma? He likes to play like he's in the battle. He likes to run and play. It makes him think of the Lord.



Prabhupāda: Oh, you are playing in the battle? No, you should not manufacture anything. You should be directed by the spiritual master. Don't manufacture anything. That is not good. You'll manufacture today something; next day you'll manufacture something; then you'll go astray. Don't do that. To be under disciplinary activities means to be directed by the authorities. Don't manufacture anything. There are so many activities. Why should we manufacture some other thing? Manufacturing means Māyāvāda, mental concoction. That is not the process of bhakti. Yes.



*Jaya*-gopāla: If he plays...



Prabhupāda: Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You have to simply follow the footprints. Yes.



*Jaya*-gopāla: If we were in plays and we are playing such great personalities, how should we be thinking?



Prabhupāda: Huh?



*Jaya*-gopāla: In plays if we would be...



Prabhupāda: Play is play. Suppose you are playing the part of Cromwell, are you Cromwell? So similarly, why do you think like that you have become Cromwell?



*Jaya*-gopāla: No. How should we think, though?



Prabhupāda: You think yourself that you are servant of him. Suppose you are playing the part of George Washington in a drama. Are you George Washington? But while playing, you may feel like that; otherwise the play will not be successful. That is different thing. (pause) So Govinda dāsī, so long you are here, morning, evening, you should see that the ārati is performed. In the morning, evening, and lunchtime. Yes.



*Jaya*-gopāla: When one is fully engaged in transcendental loving service, how is freedom of choice playing a part in your..., in choice of service? Does one have a choice? Like when Kṛṣṇa completely takes over one's life.



Prabhupāda: I do not follow what you said. [break] (chanting of Bhaja bhakata) One line is missing. Puruṣottama, you have taught them? (referring to ārati song) Thank you. That's all right. Now you learn it, it will be all right. Now you can take prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa. In this way one or two, practice daily, then it will come out nice. Yes.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct) take prasādam, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes. (ārati song) Loudly. (end)





690110IN.LA

Initiations

-

Los Angeles, January 10, 1969



Prabhupāda: So what is the name?



Pradyumna: Ṛṣabhadeva.



Prabhupāda: Huh? Ṛṣabhadeva, yes. Ṛṣabhadeva is the, was a emperor of the world, and He was incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So Ṛṣabhadeva dāsa. You are not Ṛṣabhadeva, but you are servant of Ṛṣabhadeva. Always remember it. When we give some spiritual name, that is Kṛṣṇa's name, and we are servant, Ṛṣabhadeva dāsa. So your name is Ṛṣabhadeva dāsa, and you will get all information from Tamāla, the ten kinds of offenses. You know our regulative principles?



Ṛṣabhadeva: No illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Ṛṣabhadeva: No meat, fish or eggs; no gambling...



Devotee (1): Intoxication.



Ṛṣabhadeva: No intoxicants.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. So you'll remember it. All right, take it. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and be happy.



Devotee (2): Haribol!



Prabhupāda: [break]



*...oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(devotees repeat each word of praṇāma mantra) Come on. What is?



Pradyumna: Bhadrasena.



Prabhupāda: Bhadrasena. Your name is Bhadrasena, one of the friends of Kṛṣṇa who was fighting with Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Don't fight with Him. (laughter) You are Bhadrasena dāsa; *you are servant of Bhadrasena. Bhadrasena was always challenging Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, come on." (laughter) He has chanted the mantra? Guru*-mantra?



Pradyumna: Yes, yes.



Prabhupāda: And other direction you take from Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. Come on. [break]



*om viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhutale

*śrīmate bhaktivedanta*-svamin iti namine



(devotees repeat each word of praṇāma mantra) Take. You know the regulative principles? What is that?



Girl: No illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication, no meat, fish, or eggs.



Prabhupāda: No LSD. And no LSD also. (laughter) Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Pradyumna: Kauśalyā.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Pradyumna: Kauśalyā. Kauśalyā.



Prabhupāda: Gosalya?



Pradyumna: Kauśalyā, Lord Rāmacandra's mother, Kauśalyā.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, Kauśalyā. Kauśalyā. Your name is Kauśalyā. K*-a-u-s-a-l-y-a, Kauśalyā. Kauśalyā was the name of Lord Rāmacandra's mother. So you have to produce one Lord Rāmacandra, Kauśalyā. You have done... He has done the...



Devotee (1): He is initiated.



Prabhupāda: All right. Then you are initiated. Come on. (all chant japa) [break]



*...viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(devotees repeat) Come on. What is the name?



Pradyumna: Janmañjaya.



*Prabhupāda: Your name is Janmañjaya. Janman, j*-a-n-m-a-n, j-a-y. Janmañjaya was the son of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, yes, a great Vaiṣṇava king of..., emperor of the world. So you have to serve him. That's it. Come on. [break]



*...viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



What is her name?



Pradyumna: Tārā dāsī.



*Prabhupāda: Tārā dāsī. T-a-r*-a d-a-s-i, Tārā. Tārā was one of the gopīs.



Devotees: Ah!



Prabhupāda: [break]



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(devotees repeat)



Pradyumna: Sūri dāsa. Sūri dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Sūri dāsa. S-u-r*-i d-a-s-a, Sūri dāsa. Sūri. Sūri means devotees. Great devotee is called sūri, or demigods, sūri. Sūri dāsa. Come on. You know the regulative principles? Regulative principles?



Sūri: No speculation...



Prabhupāda: No speculation?



Viṣṇujana: Gambling.



Sūri: Gambling. No gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, and no meat, fish...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) [break]



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(devotees repeat)



Pradyumna: Joṭilā.



*Prabhupāda: Your name is Joṭilā. Yes. Joṭilā and Kutilā. Joṭilā was the mother*-in-law of Rādhārāṇī. (chuckles) Yes. Kṛṣṇa was not Rādhārāṇī's husband. Her husband is supposed to be somebody else. Come on. Come on. And you have bowed down? That is done. Come on. That's all right. So ten kinds of offenses, all those who are initiated today, they should avoid ten kinds of offenses. What are those offenses?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "One: Blaspheming the Lord's devotee. Two: Considering the Lord and other demigods on the same level or assuming there are many gods. Three: Neglecting the orders of the spiritual master. Four: Minimizing the authority of the *Vedas*. Five: Interpreting the holy names of God. Six: Committing sin on the strength of chanting."



*Prabhupāda: This is very dangerous thing. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you become released from all sinful reaction. But because Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra nullifies all sinful reaction, that does not mean he shall continue. It is not like that, you go to church and you confess your sins and it is all adjusted or nullified-again from the next week you begin fresh sinful activities. No. That is not allowed. That is not allowed. Kṛṣṇa we should not make an agent for nullifying our sinful activities. Then it is not service. Then we make Kṛṣṇa as our servant. We are at liberty to commit all kinds of nonsense, and God becomes an agent to clear it*-what is this nonsense? That is not allowed. You may, by mistake or some way or other, you may commit something wrong, but by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, from this day everything is apavitraḥ pavitro vā, everything is finished. But from tomorrow or immediately after this, no more sinful activities. Therefore this regulative principle, these four principles: illicit sex, meat-eating, and intoxication, and gambling. These four principles are the basic principles of all sinful activities. If you indulge in these four things, then you are prepared to do any nonsense. Therefore these four things should be immediately stopped; then there is no more chance of sinful activities. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you keep yourself always purified. Māyā will not touch you and you shall be elevated to the eternal blissful life to enjoy like the gopīs. That's all.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read the four others, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Seven: Instructing the Lord's name to the unfaithful."



Prabhupāda: Yes, this initiation is not canvassing. We don't canvass that "You become our disciple." Anyone who understands, "Oh, this is very nice," if he comes, "Swamijī, initiate me," he is welcome. But there is no canvassing or selling the mantra. No. We have no such business. We give everyone freedom to hear this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any charges. We go from door to door, street to street: "Hear and be purified." And if anyone wants to be intimately associated with us, we welcome. But we don't canvass. That is no use. If I artificially ask somebody that "You become initiated and...," no, that will not stand. One must willingly come. Therefore, as a general principle, we distribute this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. But if we find somebody reluctant, then we become callous. We don't mind. There are many others. Then?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Eight: Comparing the holy name to material piety."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Now this function, this ceremony which is going on, it is not a material ceremony. Material ceremony, of course... Just like in our country there are so many pūjās, satyanārāyaṇa*-kathā, like that. Their aim is to gain some material profit. So that kind of function is not this initiation. Here there is no question of gaining any material profit. Here the process is to become purified and become eligible to enter into the kingdom of God. That is the aim. Not that "By initiation, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, now my income is one hundred dollars. I will get one thousand dollars." No. There is no question of dollar calculation. It is no mammon's philosophy. It is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. So then next?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Nine: Inattentive while chanting the holy name."



Prabhupāda: Yes. When you chant, you must hear also. This is attention. This is yoga. Your mind must be engaged to the vibration, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." You are thinking of something in factory, what is going on, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. No. Not that. The chanting must be heard by you. That is attention, with attention. Yes, go on.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Last, "Ten: Attachment to material things while engaged in the practice of chanting."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. If by chanting, you see that your love for Kṛṣṇa is increasing and your love for matter and material enjoyment is decreasing, then you must know that you are progressing. If, by the result of chanting, you are increasing your material hankering, that is not progress. Then that is an offense. One should know that "Now I am chanting with offense. I have to rectify it." You have to test whether you are increasing your love of God, Kṛṣṇa. Then you should know that you are in progress. Two things cannot go. Just like hunger and eating cannot go together. If you are actually eating, then hunger must be subsided, if you are actually eating. Similarly, if you are actually making spiritual progress, then the result will be that your material hankering will decrease, not that you are being cured, and the temperature is increasing. No. If you are actually being cured the temperature must decrease. If you are in feverish condition, you are taking medicine, then the fever must decrease. This material hankering is a kind of disease. It is never satisfied. But people are hankering more, more, more, more, more... That means temperature is increasing. And when the temperature is 107 degrees, finish life. That's all.



*So this material civilization has come to the degree of atomic heat, you see. Now everyone has got this atomic energy, and it is going to be finished. So that kind of advancement is not needed. Actually bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. The test... Whether you are making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you have to test yourself, whether you are decreasing your material desires. That's all. Because in the perfect stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no more material desires. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I have no more any demand. I am fully satisfied." Kṛṣṇa*-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. If you want śānti, peacefulness, then you have to become completely Kṛṣṇa conscious-kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma-because he has no more demand. And bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. And those who are karmīs, trying to elevate material position, they are all disturbed. And mukti, those who are hankering after liberation, he is also disturbed. And siddhi, those who are yogis hankering after some material perfection, mystic perfection, he is also disturbed. He is simply thinking, "How I shall be so light that I can fly in the sky." Yes. What you are? There are... So many flies are flying in the sky. (laughter) What you gain by that? But the nonsense will see, "Oh, I am now, from the ground I am now three feet high." Three feet high? A small bird is a hundred feet high. What is there? These are all nonsense. Don't be after all this nonsense. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī. Bhukti means these ordinary worker, whole day working like ass, taking a morsel of food or no food even, but working hard. Always motorcar is going this way, that way, that way, that way, and that way, that way... They are karmīs. And those who are disgusted with karma-"Now I shall meditate. I shall become God." You see? The same disease, aśānti. And siddhi-kāmī, mystic power: "I shall be light. I shall be great. Whatever I shall want, immediately..." The yogis can do that.

As I told you, one story, it is very..., not amusing. One boy, he went out of home and mixed with yogis for several years. Then, after some time, he came to his village, and all the friends and relatives gathered: "Oh, you have been so many years with yogis. What you have learned?" Actually yogis can do wonderful things. One yogi used to come to our house. He was my father's... My father used to respect him. So he told us that within a few minutes they will go several hundreds of miles. Simply he will touch his Guru Mahārāja and sit down, and he will see in another place within few seconds some thousands of miles away. The yogis can perform this. So one yogi, he came to his village, and all the people, relatives, surrounded him: "What you have learned, please?" He said that "I have learned this mystic power; *I can walk on the water." This is called laghimā-siddhi, to become so light that one can fly in the air or one can walk on the water. So everyone became inquisitive. "Oh, please show me. Please show us one day." So he agreed, "All right. I shall show on that day." Then one old man said, "My dear friend, you have been so long with the yogis, but you have learned only two-cent-worth power." "What is that?" "Now you will walk over the water, and I shall pay two cent to the boatman. He will take me to the other side. (laughter) So what you have gained? You have so much labored, but you have gained only two-cent-worth thing." You see? So these yogis are after two cent. (laughter) Even they are perfection. There is no... If they are perfect... Without being perfect, they are nothing, simply rascals. But even they are perfect, that is two-cent worth. You see? But here is a yoga system*-we are going to Kṛṣṇa. Just always remember this.

*So what is the last? So we should not be inattentive. This yoga system, this bhakti*-yoga system, is the highest yoga system. There is... Even Brahmā. You'll read all these thing in our book, Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā, he was so powerful. He wanted to play some mystic power. He took away all the cowherds boys and friend, yes, calves and cows from Kṛṣṇa just to see the fun. And Kṛṣṇa created many thousand cowherd boys immediately. So this yogic power has nothing to do. If you can get Kṛṣṇa... Just like mother Yaśodā and other friends. Just like I told you about Bhadrasena. He was challenging Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was defeated. And when Kṛṣṇa became defeated, He had to take on His shoulder His friend. So this is another thing. And to be satisfied with little power and little influence within this material world, that is nothing. That is worthless. As soon as this body is finished, everything is finished. It has no value. Just... Yam labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. You just try to achieve something, will achieving, you will no more want anything. So all these yogis, all these karmīs, all these jñānīs, they are not peaceful because they are wanting something, wanting something. So long you will be wanting something, there cannot be any more peace. Mind that. When there will be no more demand, that is peace. And that is only for Kṛṣṇa bhakta, kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma [Cc. Madhya 19.149], because he has no demand. Ataeva śānta: "Therefore he is peaceful." All others, they have got some demand. So this is the process. By making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means your demands will be nil. That's all. When you find in that position, that "I have no more any demand," svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi, "I am fully satisfied, Kṛṣṇa," then that is your perfection. So try to achieve that position.

*Now you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, first of all is marriage. Now you offer this girl. What is name? Where is garland? All these groups, give them garland. Who is in charge? All right. This garland was first touched there in Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temple?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First touched to Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Yes, to the feet. Yes. Huh?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It hasn't been done yet.



Prabhupāda: So do it. Do it immediately. Now you just give in charity these girls to the boys. You say... First of all name her.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jambavatī.



Prabhupāda: Yes, "My Godsister..."



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My Godsister Jambavatī...



Prabhupāda: "...who was in charge of me..."



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...who was in charge of me...



Prabhupāda: "...now I will give you."



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...I now give you to



Prabhupāda: So you accept him as your wife.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you accept him as your wife?"



Prabhupāda: You say, "Yes, I accept."



Devotee (1): Yes.



Prabhupāda: "I take charge of her throughout her life." Yes. And you accept, "I accept you as my husband. We shall keep in peace in any circumstances." Tell this. Say this. "We shall keep peace in any circumstances. We shall never be separated even in distressed condition." You also say. Yes.



Devotee (1): Yes.



Prabhupāda: Now change your garland. That's all. Yes. You come to this side. You come to this side, left side. You go to the right side. Similarly, you give her.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Janmañjaya, this is my Godsister Tārā dāsī. I wish that you will accept her as your wife, to take charge of her.



Prabhupāda: You say, "Yes, I take charge for Tārā dāsī throughout her life." Say that.



Janmañjaya: I will take charge of Tārā dāsī throughout her life.



Prabhupāda: And you say, "I accept you as my husband."



Tārā: I accept you as my husband.



Prabhupāda: "And I wish to serve you throughout my life."



Tārā: And I wish to serve you throughout my life.



Prabhupāda: "There will be no separation in any condition."



Tārā: There will be no separation in any condition.



Prabhupāda: "We shall jointly execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



Tārā: We shall jointly execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Now change (garland). Change it.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa)



Prabhupāda: You come this side. You come this side. Left side you come. You come left side. Now cover. Similarly do here.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My dear Godbrother Sūri, this is my Godsister Joṭilā dāsī, and I wish that you will take care of her for your whole life and accept her as your wife and always protect her, that there will be no separation between you, that you will always watch over her carefully. Will you do this?



Sūri: Yes.



Prabhupāda: You say, "Yes, I take charge of Joṭilā dāsī." You say.



Sūri: Yes, I take charge...



Prabhupāda: (Sūri dāsa repeating) "Throughout her whole life. Throughout her whole life. There will be no separation in any condition. In any condition. And we shall jointly execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Jointly. Jointly. Yes. She will help you, and you will help her. That's all. Change. Yes, you accept that "I will serve you throughout my life."



Joṭilā: Yes, I will serve you throughout my life.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on. Now change. [break] (devotees repeat:)



apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ



*vande ahaṁ śrī*-guru śrī-yuta-padakamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca

*śrī*-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam

*sa advaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana*-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ

*śrī*-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca



Svāhā. Svāhā. Svāhā. (end)





690325IN.HAW

Initiation

-

Hawaii, March 25, 1969



*Prabhupāda: So now you come here. You have given... There is no āsana, sitting? Give him one piece of... So I shall perform this initiation ceremony. If you kindly sit, you can see. [break] I am traveling everywhere. Next I am going to San Francisco. But my disciples, they will stay here. This Gaurasundara dāsa, Mr. Gary, he will live here with his wife. Yes. So temple, if people come, that is temple. You see? That is temple. And if we, suppose, construct a huge building and nobody comes, then what is the use of spending money? We are not after such thing. But if somebody has got money, he wants to construct temple, it is welcome. We can give nice plan how to do it. In India there are Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temples, just like one temple is as good as a big fort. They spend so much. You see? But here also, in your country, there are many big churches. So people, formerly they were religiously inclined. So either Christian, Muhammadan or Hindus or anyone, they were constructing temple, churches, mosques. But that mentality is gone. You see? They will spend lots of money for a skyscraper building to get income, and temple is called nonproductive building. You see? They do not wish to engage their money in nonproductive thing because they have become economic. But that is wrong theory. You see? That economic means forgetting God. And that means, I mean to say, animal life. If by becoming a human being, he becomes an animal, if he thinks that he has become economical, that is not very sane conclusion. So godless means animal. The animals, they do not know how to create a church or temple or mosque. The mosque or temple or church, they are done in the human society. So when the human society forgets this responsibility from economic point of view, that means they degrade to the animal life.



Now you can chant, those who are initiated. (ceremony begins, chanting of oṁ apavitraḥ) [break] ...Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then take another bead, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. In this way you come to this end. Don't cross this summit. Again begin from this end. In this way chant daily sixteen rounds. One round, two round, three round, four round, fifth round, like that. And you have noted down the rules and regulation? Yes. And the ten kinds of offenses to give up, chanting? Yes. And your Godbrothers will help you. I don't think there is name, any Balabhadra? So your spiritual name is Balabhadra. Just bow down. (devotee repeating each word:)

*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



All right, take your beads and be happy, and Balabhadra dāsa brahmacārī. Is that all right? (laughter)



Sudāmā: Prabhupāda, what does Balabhadra mean?



Prabhupāda: Balabhadra is this, Balabhadra.



Sudāmā: Ah, Balarāma.



Prabhupāda: Balabhadra and Balarāma are two different names, Kṛṣṇa's elder brother. Now chant. No. We have to perform. Yes. Chant your beads. Give me lamp. [break] This boy was chanting automatically, so there is no question of waiting for sixteen years. Any child, even we have seen dancing; sometimes dogs are also dancing. In Tompkinson Square in New York, when I was chanting, oh, so many children, dogs, and everything. This is for me? All right. First of all give him. You take some. All right. (end)





690504IN.BOS

Initiation of Baradraj and Chandanācārya Dāsās

-

Boston, May 4, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...rādhā śrīla govinda-devau preṣṭhālībhiḥ sevyamānau smarāmi. (devotees chant responsively) Śrīmān rāsa-rasārambhī vaṁśī-vaṭa-taṭa-sthitaḥ karṣan veṇu-svanair gopīr gopīnāthaḥ śriye 'stu naḥ. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give me your beads. (japa) Begin from here. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then take next. In this way you'll come this side. You don't cross this. Again begin here, and come to this. Such sixteen rounds must be done every day. Your spiritual name is Chandanācārya dāsa. Chandanācārya. C-h-a-n-d-a-n-c-h-a-r-y*-a dāsa. Chandanācārya, a great preacher of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So you are servant of that. You have to preach very nicely. Bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(devotees repeat responsively) Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Take this. (japa) You could not secure like that? This is all right. (japa) Put in your bag and do... (japa) Begin from here, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Next. In this way come to this point, again like that. And where is that chart, the ten kinds of offenses and the regulative principles?



Haṁsadūta: I have it in Montreal. They have that. They already have that, Prabhupāda. Yes.



*Prabhupāda: You must give them copies. Is there any name Madana*-mohana dāsa? Yes? There is? So his name should be Baradraj. B-a-r-a-d, Baradraj, r-a-j, Baradraj. Baradraj is another name of Lord Viṣṇu. Baradraj dāsa Brahmacārī. All right. Just bow down. Bow down. Bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(devotees repeat) All right. Take your beads. Be happy. Baradraj. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) Chant. (japa) Keep it there. You can keep it.



Śāradīyā: You want to move more closer?



Prabhupāda: You can keep it.



Candanācārya: Put it down?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Nama. You take little, little, everyone, and when I say svāhā, you put it.



Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda? Is Śāradīyā dāsī going to take the Gāyatrī?



Prabhupāda: Gāyatrī, so where is that mantra sheet? Then I'll give you after. That's all.



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantara śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



*Vande ahaṁ śrī*-guru... (chants prayers for fire sacrifice, devotees responding)



Devotees: Careful, careful.



*Prabhupāda: Here. Not at me. (chants prayers) Now each one, banana. Stand up. Namo brahmaṇya*-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Stand up. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindāya namo namaḥ. (repeats twice with devotees responding) Now put silently. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now bow down, namo oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)





690521IN.NV

Initiation of Lokanātha dāsa

-

New Vrindaban, May 21, 1969



Prabhupāda: Mānuṣyam arthadam anityam apīha dhīraḥ, tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu pateta yāvat niḥśreyasāya viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. The Vedic literature informs that labdhvā sudurlabham idam [SB 11.9.29]. Idam means "this." "This" means this body, this opportunity, human form of life, developed consciousness, full facility. The animals, they have no facility. They are living in the jungles. But we can utilize these jungles, these forests, for so many comfortable situation. So we have got developed consciousness, intelligence. We can utilize. So it is called arthadam. Artha. There are two meanings of artha. Artha-śāstra. Artha-śāstra means economics, how to increase wealth. That is called artha. So arthadam. This human form of life can bestow upon you artha. Artha means something substantial. Generally we understand substantial means money. If somebody gets money, that is substantial for material comforts, of course, but real substantial thing is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real substance, arthadam.



*So Vedic literature, Vedas' meaning, when it is said, arthadam, "In this life you can achieve the substance," that substance means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, taking it substance means multimillionaire or millions of dollars, that is also artha but anityam. That is anityam. That substance will not be carried by you. You have come here empty*-handed from the womb of your mother, and when you leave this place, you will also go empty-handed. Not that because you have earned millions of dollars, Mr. Rockefeller or Ford, you can carry this. No. The Rockefeller Center will remain there, where it is. You have to go empty-handed. So now, when it is said arthadam, "You can achieve the substance," that does not mean this artha, temporary, which will not be carried by me. It will be left behind. That is going on. I create something in this life. As much as this body is created by the father and mother, similarly, I also create. That creative energy is there in me because I am part and parcel of God. So God creates; *I also create. That creative energy is within me, but a very minute quantity. That creation is nothing in comparison with God's creation. God has created this whole universe, and what you can create? You can create, utmost, a city like New York. That's all. You can create. That's all right. In that sense you are god also. Part and parcel of God is also god, but small god. Just like your earring. That is gold. So that gold is not equal to the gold mine. That gold mine is different. Therefore the philosophy is, "simultaneously one and different." We are, every one of us, we are simultaneously one with God and different from God. One in quality. The quality of God is also in me. I am of the same quality. Just like a drop of sea water and the vast water, ocean. The quality analytical, chemical composition, is the same, but the quantity of component parts are different. This is called acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva: "inconceivably, simultaneously one and different." The Māyāvāda philosophy, they say that "We are God. Everyone is God." But we say that "Yes, everyone is God, but not that God, the Supreme God." Everyone is American, but not that American like President Nixon. This common sense knowledge the Māyāvādī hasn't got. But they are puffed up: "Oh, I am the same. I am..." So 'ham: "I am the same." How you are the same? If you are the same, why you are fallen in this condition? They will say, "It is māyā. It is illusion." No. Why you are in illusion? If you are great-"God is great"-if you are that great, then why you are captured by illusion? Then illusion is great, not God is great. This commonsense philosophy they do not understand. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "Poor fund of knowledge." Whenever he used to designate these Māyāvādī philosophers, he would say, "Poor fund of knowledge."

So this is the opportunity to... You are part and parcel of God. Don't try to become artificially like God. That is not possible. That will be simply waste of energy. This is māyā. Everyone under the spell of māyā, they are working very hard. Why? Everyone is trying to become God: "I shall be the great man of this country," or "My country shall be the greatest country in the world." That means God is great, and everyone is trying to be great like that. That is competition. So you are trying, I am trying, he is trying, everyone is trying. This is called māyā. But our Bhāgavata philosophy says that "Don't try artificially in that way. Better remain what you are. Better remain..." Just like the same example: If you want to be the greatest man in your country, just like President Nixon, so you have to work very hard. And that is also for temporary. It will be finished within five years. Then you are ordinary man again. So better remain and in your own capacity, and try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends this process, that you don't try artificially to become God the great. It is not possible. Simply waste of time. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. It is not the statement of Caitanya Mahāprabhu; *it is the statement of Bhāgavata, but He quoted this. His disciple, Rāmānanda Rāya, quoted this while discussing what is the objective of human life. So He recommends this objective. What is that? Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Don't try to be puffed up artificially by your speculative knowledge that you are the same God. Don't try for it. If you actually want to be happy, and if you want, actually, you want to be God realized or Kṛṣṇa conscious person, then the first thing is that you give up this nonsense habit*-by speculation, you want to be God. Puffed up: "I am God. I am God. I am God." But you are not God. You are God qualitatively, not quantitatively. Why don't you understand this?

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jñāne prayāsam. Jñānīs, the empiric philosophers, they simply speculate and try to prove that "I am God." That means āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The atheist says that "There is no God," and here the Māyāvādī philosophy says, "Yes, there is God, but God I am." That's all. It is the same philosophy, atheism. He is also denying that "There is no separate God. I am God." That atheistic philosophy, like Buddha philosophy, "There is no God..." But Buddha himself is God. That is... Another Bhāgavata interpretation is that he is cheating the atheist person. The atheists, they say, "There is no God," and Lord Buddha said, "Yes, there is no God, but you follow me." But He is God. Keśava dhṛta*-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. So Bhāgavata therefore says, sammohāya sura-dviṣām [SB 1.3.24]. It is something like that. A naughty boy does not want to go to school. So somebody, some friend, says, "Yes, you don't go to school. All right, you sit down. Now, what is this?" "Oh, this is cow." "What is this?" "This is leg." "Can you count how many legs are there?" "Yes. One, two, three, four." So... (aside:) What is that?

Hayagrīva: Somebody's coming, some vehicle.



Prabhupāda: All right. You please sit down. So the boy is satisfied that "I am not going to a school. This gentleman is very nice. I didn't want to go to school, and he says, 'Yes, don't go to school.' But "You sit down here. What is this?" "This is cow." "And what is this?" "This is cow's leg." "What is this?" "One leg, two leg." That means he is being educated, but he does not know. He says that "Ah..."



*So Lord Buddha's philosophy is like that. The atheistic people, they are against God. "Yes, there is no God. But you take this philosophy, ahiṁsā. Don't kill animals." That means if they stop animal*-killing, then one day they will be able to understand what is God. Some day. Because so long one is accustomed to kill animals, he will never be able to understand what is God. That is Buddha philosophy. He situated the atheistic people on the line of understanding God. So this is, in one way, cheating. But this cheating is not cheating. Just like father or guardian sometimes cheats the young boy. That is not cheating; that is for his good. But actually, if you take the, I mean to say, behavior, it is something like cheating. So the Māyāvāda philosophy... This Buddha philosophy is also another Māyāvāda philosophy. Both of them are, on the face value, atheistic, denying the existence of God. One is saying, "There is no God"; *another is saying, "It is impersonal," in this way. But our philosophy is neither atheistic nor impersonal. It is directly person. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Directly we say, "There is no..." Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nāsti: "There is nobody greater than Me." If God is great, how anybody can be greater than Him? It is right. Eh? Nānyat parataraṁ nāsti: "There is nothing more greater than Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everything." Vedānta-sūtra says, "Brahman, or the Supreme Absolute Truth, is the source of everything." And here is the direct answer by Kṛṣṇa, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: "I am the source of everything." So we follow this philosophy. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we directly take Bhagavad-gītā as the evidence of existence of God. And if you want to know God, you cannot know God by speculation. He is so great, He is so unlimited, and we have got limited senses, limited capacity. It is not possible. Simply we can understand God by the mercy of God. So here is the mercy of God, Kṛṣṇa, He Himself speaking about Himself. You learn God. God is speaking about Himself. You haven't got to speculate. And He, by His pastimes, by His activities, He... (aside:) What is that sound coming? That is car? Oh. By His activities, He proved Himself that He is complete God. From His childhood.

*So Bhāgavata says... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "Don't be situated in the speculative method, that you are God, you are something-'There is no God,' or 'I am God, this God, that God.' Give up this habit kindly. Give up this nonsense habit." There is God, and you are not God. You are God partially, part and parcel, just like I have explained. So we have to give up this nonsense habit. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya. Udapāsya means give up. Then what is next? Namanta eva. Just be submissive. Don't be puffed up artificially. You are being slapped always by the laws of material nature. Don't think that you are independent. It is foolishness to say that "I am independent. I don't care for anything of..." No. You have to care. You are being kicked every moment by the laws of nature. You should know it. You are not independent. Therefore be namanta eva, be submissive. Namanta eva. Jñāne prayāsaṁ namanta eva, be submissive. Namanta eva. Jñāne prayāsaṁ namanta eva san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. San-mukharitām. And try to hear about the Supreme Lord from the right source. San-mukharitām. San, sat. Sat-mukharitām. Sat means eternal, and mukharitām means speaking, coming out from the mouth of a person who is eternally situated. Who is eternally situated? Not this body. Eternally situated, I am, I am real "I am," the spirit soul. So the spirit soul can speak when he is Kṛṣṇa conscious; *otherwise he is covered. His speaking power is stopped. Just like an unconscious man is without any consciousness, but he has got the life*-the soul is there-similarly, in the other species of life, although the soul is there, it is not, the soul is not speaking. The outward, the influence of the soul... (aside:) What is this? That means the soul is not manifested there fully. Labdhvā sudurlabham [SB 11.9.29]. That is being manifested from aquatic life to plant life, then in insect life, then bird's life, then beast's life, at last human life. Out of human life, there are civilized life, uncivilized life. And out of the civilized life, there are atheists and theists, and those who are actually developed conscious. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The consciousness is developing from the lowest status of living condition, aquatic, then plants, trees, then insects, flying insects, then birds, then four-legged beasts, so many, then two hands, two legs, gorilla. Similarly, human, uncivilized, then civilized, Aryans, then our Vedic knowledge. In this way consciousness is increasing. That is real evolutionary theory. Darwin has simply taken some imaginative... He might have taken from Padma-Purāṇa. In Padma-Purāṇa these are very nicely explained, how many species of life are there. They have given account: "So many species in water." Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi: "Nine hundred thousand species in water." Sthavarā lakṣa-viṁśati: "Trees and plants, there are two millions." Exact number. Now, if you are scientists, if you are botanist, if you are physiologist, you can try it and see. But these are already there. Mānuṣāḥ catur-lakṣāṇi: "The human species, there are also 400,000's." So out of this, the Aryan family, the civilized man, the Aryan families are understood to be the highest civilized... (end)



690525IN.NV

Brāhmaṇa Initiation Lecture

-

New Vrindaban, May 25, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Practically in every initiation ceremony, apavitraḥ pavitro vā, namaḥ. Namaḥ means surrendering. Namāmi: "I surrender unto You. He Kṛṣṇa, I am surrendering to You." And apavitraḥ pavitro vā. Apavitraḥ means contaminated, and pavitra means liberated. So in either stage, either in the material, contaminated stage or in transcendental, liberated stage, apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthām, in any situation... Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam. Sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. In any circumstances, if somebody remembers, smaret, remembers puṇḍarīkākṣam... Puṇḍarīka akṣam. Akṣam means eyes. One who is lotus*-eyed, Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, Puṇḍarīkākṣam, anyone who remembers always or at anytime, Kṛṣṇa, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam, sa, that person... Bahya. Bahya means externally, and abhyantaram means internally. Bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. Śuci means brāhmaṇa, or śuci means completely cleansed. The brāhmaṇa means completely clean. The brahminical qualification is first of all cleanliness. Satya śaucaṁ śamo dama titikṣa ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. To become brāhmaṇa means satyam saucam. First thing is truthful, and next, śaucam, very cleansed, internally and externally. Externally we can cleanse ourself by soap and water. That is necessary. Daily we should take bath with soap and water and oil. Bahyābhyantaram. And abhyantaraṁ śuciḥ means evacuating and cleansing. In yoga system there is a system they practice. They can get out all the intestines and cleanse it clearly. Dhauti. What do they know about this yoga system? They can take out the whole intestine and cleanse it nicely and again set it. So these are actually practicing yoga system. But who is going to do that? Simply a gymnastic process. So śaucam, cleanliness, is very necessary for advancing in spiritual life.



*So brāhmaṇa qualification is truthfulness, cleanliness, satyaṁ śaucam. Sama, equilibrium of the mind, without any disturbance, without any anxiety. Satyaṁ śaucam śamo dama. Dama means controlling the senses. Śamo dama titikṣa. Titikṣa means tolerance. So many things in the material world will happen. We have to practice to tolerate. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Kṛṣṇa says, "You have to learn tolerance. The sukha*-duḥkha, happiness, distress, they will come like seasonal changes." Just like there is sometimes rain, there is sometimes snowfall, sometimes scorching heat. How you can fight? It is not possible. Try to tolerate. That's all. Satyaṁ śaucaṁ śamo dama titikṣa ārjavam. Ārjavam means simplicity, no duplicity. Simplicity, ārjavam. Jñānaṁ vijñānam, knowledge and practical application in life. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. Āstikyam means to believe firmly in the scriptures. Just like Bhagavad-gītā we are studying, or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We should firmly believe what Kṛṣṇa says, not interpretation. This is called āstikyam. And nāstikyam means not firm belief, atheism. Just like Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha simply said that "I don't believe in the Vedas." Therefore he is immediately calculated as atheist, nāstikyam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika: "The followers of Buddha, they did not accept Vedic, I mean to say, direction; *therefore they are nāstika." What is that Vedic direction? In the Dāsavatāra*-stotra by Jayadeva Gosvāmī, he says, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. In the śruti, in the Vedas, there is prescription of sacrifice, and in some of the sacrifice there is recommendation for sacrifice of some animals, goats. So that is... But Lord Buddha says, "No. I want to introduce nonviolence, no animal killing. So even there is Veda, prescription, I don't accept Vedas." Therefore he became nāstika. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika: "Because Lord Buddha did not accept the authority of the Veda, therefore he was considered nāstika, atheist." He was Indian. He was Hindu. His forefathers were kṣatriyas, Vedic. He revolted. So therefore he was called nāstika. But a brāhmaṇa should not be nāstika; he should be āstik. Āstikyam: "He must believe in the scriptural injunction." These are brahminical qualifications.

So you are going to be brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, this sacred thread ceremony; *therefore you should follow all these principles, satyam, śaucam, cleanliness... Although in this age, not only in your country*-you are completely out of Vedic culture-even in India, they are so-called. Nobody follows. But still, they claim, "I am brāhmaṇa. We are brāhmaṇas." So this is parapidam (?), simply a social standard without any qualification, without any... So you are going to take the responsibility of brahmanism. This system is introduced according to pāñcarātrikī system. Pāñcarātrikī system means formerly in the Vedic system, without being born by a brāhmaṇa, nobody was given this sacred thread ceremony. "Without being born by a brāhmaṇa" does not mean hereditary, but actually, one who is brāhmaṇa... Just like you are not being created as brāhmaṇa. So if your son is born, he has the first claim to become a brāhmaṇa because by the birth he gets the brahminical culture, sees the father, mother. Just like this boy. Automatically he is getting Vaiṣṇava culture, he is associating with the Vaiṣṇavas. So the son of a brāhmaṇa has the chance. A practical example, this boy: from the very beginning becoming a Vaiṣṇava, more than a brāhmaṇa, more than. Vaiṣṇava position is above the brāhmaṇas. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. But Vaiṣṇava, he penetrates the brahmajyoti. Just like you penetrate. If you are able to penetrate the sunshine and go to the sun and seek out the sun-god, if somebody is able, by going to the sun planet by sputnik, he is better than who is in the sunshine. Sunshine we can have by just little go up to the cloud. Say, about seven miles up, you get sunshine. But to go to the sun planet and enter into the..., that is very difficult job. That requires so many things. (aside:) Sit down properly. Chant. So Brahman, Nirviśeṣa-brahman, impersonal Brahman, when one understands, jñānaṁ vijñānam... Jñānaṁ vijñānam. And when one becomes Vaiṣṇava, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. When one understands what is impersonal Brahman, what is localized Paramātmā, and what is Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam... When you understand the Supreme, the original Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa... Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There are many incarnations. Rāmādi-murtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha... There are so many thousands and millions of incarnation. But Bhāgavata points out that "This name, Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So when one understands kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], that Vāsudeva is everything, then he becomes a Vaiṣṇava.

*So a Vaiṣṇava is already brāhmaṇa, but still, it is a function that one should not deride at Vaiṣṇava, that he is not brāhmaṇa. Therefore Vaiṣṇava*-smṛti, Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, written by Sanātana Gosvāmī... That is called Vaiṣṇava-smṛti, how to conduct Vaiṣṇava life. There it is clearly stated by Sanātana Gosvāmī that tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām: "By the process of initiation, a man can attain the position of the twice-born." Twice-born means brāhmaṇa especially-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, three classes of twice-born. Several times I have explained: first born by father and mother, and second born, birth, is this. So you should have responsibility, you should follow. But you can be steady and you will be able to follow all these principles provided you chant regularly Hare Kṛṣṇa. That sixteen rounds you must complete. Then māyā will not be able to deviate you. That is... You must keep this. This kīrtana process, as we are performing morning, evening, this will keep your life steady, fixed up, firm. You will always be situated in brāhmaṇa's position if you strictly follow this. Otherwise māyā will immediately: "My dear boy, please come here. Why you are taking so much botheration?" You see? Just like one boy wanted to be initiated from Montreal. His father and mother have sent me telegram. You have seen? "Oh, please save my boy. He is going to be brāhmaṇa. Oh, it will spoil my family." That means if he becomes brāhmaṇa, he may be reluctant to be karmī. This is going on. If one becomes debauch, the father-mother is not so disturbed. But if he becomes brāhmaṇa, "Oh, it is horrible. It is horrible. It is horrible." (laughter) Just see the social condition. If a young man becomes debauch, "Ah, young man. Let him do. What is there? When he will grow, he will be taken... All right." But if a young man goes to a spiritual master to become brāhmaṇa, "Oh," the father-mother is... "Oh,, it is horrible. My son is being killed." You see? Just see. I have got practical telegram from India. Just see the position of India. Just now today I have received one telegram, Hanla (?). "Oh, it is horrible condition." And Bhāgavata says that "One should not become a father, one should not become a mother, if he cannot prepare his child, a brāhmaṇa, a Vaiṣṇava, so that will protect him from the cycle of repeated birth and death." "No, we don't want this thing. We want our boy a karmī, a demon. Let him earn and send the money. I eat very nicely." This is going on.

*So this propaganda against brahmanism or Vaiṣṇavism is always. It is not new thing. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. His little child wanted to become a Vaiṣṇava, and the father, "Oh, you are going to be Vaiṣṇava? I shall kill you." A little child, five years old, just like this boy. He is taking care. If mother says, "Oh, you are doing this? I shall kill you," most extraordinary. But there are instances. So you should be careful. The only precaution is that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam sa bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. Always. If you want to keep intact of transcendental position, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Then you will be kept. Nobody can harm you. Nobody can deviate you. Māyā will fly away. You see? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā is very strong. You cannot conquer māyā by so-called meditation or this or that. No. Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante. Kṛṣṇa. Only He. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. He can overcome the stringent laws of māyā. So don't think that after finishing this ceremony you become all right. No. Māyā is always strong. Kṛṣṇa-nāma karo bhaya āra sab miche, palāivera path naya yo māche piche. The instruction is that you always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Āra sab miche. Whatever except... Nāma vinā kichu nāhika āra, cauddha-bhuvana-majhe. "Within this fourteen world, if there is anything summum bonum substance, this is this Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Mind that." Nāma vinā kichu nāhika āra, cauddha-bhuvana-majhe. So this is secondary, this ceremony. Real strength is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So of course, people may not think you otherwise, that you are not brāhmaṇa, you are not purified. Therefore this ceremony is there, the thread ceremony here, that "Yes, we are properly... According to scriptural rules and regulations, we have become brāhmaṇa. There is no question of... Because I am not born in a brāhmaṇa family, it does not mean I am not brāhmaṇa. I am recognized by authorized ācārya in the line of disciplic succession of Nārada." Nārada has given this definition in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam while instructing Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira about the four..., eight divisions, varṇa and āśrama. He said, yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ syād varṇābhivyañjakam. Varṇa. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. Four classes, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra*-this is creation of God. It is not artificial. It is natural. God's creation is natural. So cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: "According to quality and work." So your quality is Vaiṣṇava, and working as Vaiṣṇava. Then you are more than a brāhmaṇa. But you should keep. Similarly, Nārada also. We are initiating according to Nārada-pañcarātra. Because, as I told you, formerly only a person who is born by a brāhmaṇa... That means garbhādhāna ceremony. A child should be accepted that he is born of a brāhmaṇa. Everyone should know. That is called garbhādhāna ceremony, that when a man goes to his wife to beget child, there is a ceremony. It is not a secret, hide and seek behavior. Everyone should know that "Now this man is going to beget child." So how that child should be very nice, that is called garbhādhāna ceremony. So if garbhādhāna ceremony is not performed according to scriptural direction, immediately he becomes a śūdra.

So in this age nobody is observing garbhādhāna ceremony; *therefore it is to be understood that everyone is born a śūdra. Therefore pāñcarātriki-vidhi. Vedic system cannot be applied because nobody is born of a brāhmaṇa. Who knows? Who knows how he is born? There is no ceremony. That is witness, that "Oh, he will go." Just like marriage is a ceremony, there are so many witnesses, similarly, garbhādhāna ceremony, there is ceremony. It is no hide and seek. So because the garbhādhāna ceremony is not current at the present age, therefore everyone should be accepted as born śūdra, either in any place, either here or India or anywhere. But the Pāñcarātrika system, it gives chance to a person, if he has got symptoms. Just like this boy has got the symptom to become a brāhmaṇa, to be Vaiṣṇava. Just like in the Jabala Upaniṣad. This, by symptoms, he was accepted brāhmaṇa, a small boy like this. Satyakaṁ Jabala. Satyakam. He went to Gautama Muni: "My dear sir, will you initiate me?" Just like this boy can ask us. Oh, he was very kind: "Oh, yes. Very nice boy. What is your father's name?" "Oh, I do not know." "Oh, just ask your mother. Go." Mother says, "I do not know whose son you are." He came back. "What your mother says?" "Oh, Mother says she does not know who is my father." "Oh, you are brāhmaṇa. Oh, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on. I shall initiate you." He was so truthful. That is real symptom of brāhmaṇa, satya, śama. He does not disclose that "I do not know." Everyone will try to hide if he does not know his father's name. But here is a boy, "Oh," he said, "Oh, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on. I shall initiate you." This is lakṣaṇa, symptom. "Such a truthful boy. Never mind what he is born, how he is born." This system is not new. Therefore we shall have to accept by the symptom. If one is inclined to go to Kṛṣṇa-he is chanting, he is doing, following the principles-then, according to Nārada's version, yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ syāt, here is the lakṣaṇa, symptom, varṇābhivyañjakam, to understand to what class he belongs. Now, he is truthful*-he belongs to the brāhmaṇa class. He is truthful; therefore he belongs to the brāhmaṇa class. Yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ syāt varṇābhivyañjakam. Abhivyañjakam means just to find out what class of man he is. If he is truthful, he is brāhmaṇa. Lakṣaṇa. The lakṣaṇa is there; the symptom is there. Yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ varṇābhivyañjakaṁ tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. One should take him into that classification. He is truthful? Oh, he is immediately to the brahminical place. If he is a liar, immediately he is pañcama, less than śūdra. You see? So these things were done. People have misused the whole thing: "Now I am born of a brāhmaṇa. By force I am brāhmaṇa." You see? Just like Paṇḍitajī, our late Prime Minister Paṇḍitajī. He was less than the caṇḍāla, but he was addressed as "Paṇḍitajī." "Paṇḍitajī" is the address of the brāhmaṇa. You see? By lakṣaṇam... Nobody cared for lakṣaṇa because his forefather, somebody, was a brāhmaṇa, although there was no garbhādhāna ceremony, no system, still. This is not accepted. People misunderstand Hindu culture, Vedic culture, that there are forced caste system. No. It is varṇābhivyañjakam, by the symptom, quality, qualification. It is not by birth.

*So we, our... One of the item of this mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is to establish real varṇāśrama by qualification. We have to pick up brāhmaṇas from everywhere, throughout the whole world, not that we have to pick up brāhmaṇas in India in some class. No. There are brāhmaṇas every part of the world. We have to pick up. Just see. None of these boys are born in India or a brāhmaṇa family, but they have got the symptom. They have got the brahminical... They have either acquired willingly or by some way. So we have to pick up. Anyone who is truthful, who is controlling the senses, no illicit sex life... That is controlling senses. There are many other things. This is the most important thing. Śamo dama titikṣa. They are tolerant. To these American boys, to take up another culture, which they are not accustomed from the birth, that is tolerance. This is tolerance. But it is not painful, but it is tolerance. I am asking the American boys, "Don't smoke. Don't take intoxication." They are accustomed to this habit from the very childhood, but they are doing this. This is tolerance. So these are brahminical qualification, tolerance, truthful. And śauca, śauca, this śauca. Anyone who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, he is pure, bahyābhyantaram, inside and outside. So in this way, in this age, the chance should be given. Not that when the Satyakam spoke the truth of his life... So he was accepted. So you are being accepted as qualified brāhmaṇa, but keep your qualification. Then your life will be sublime. Keep your life. Yes. So this is a chance given by the Pāñcarātrika system. It doesn't matter how he is born. Nobody is responsible for his birth, but everyone is responsible for his work. So you work like a brāhmaṇa, like a Vaiṣṇava, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and chant this Gāyatrī mantra, and your life will be sublime. So don't neglect it. You are being initiated according to the order of our predecessors, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. We should have to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in every village, in every town of this planet. Therefore we have come to your country. You are kindly cooperating. You also spread. I am old man. I may not live very long. Any moment I can be finished. But try. That is actually feeling. That is actually fellow feeling, that people are simply... Anādi bahirmukha kṛṣṇa bhuli gelā. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa from time immemorial. Athaeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. Therefore this propaganda, this literature, Vedic literature, is there to remind them. Aham eva sarva*-yajñānāṁ blokta ca prabhur eva ca. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Lord of everything." So we have to capture Kṛṣṇa. So this is the... Namo apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. This is explanation of this verse. And now we begin our ceremony.

*(continues with ceremony*-chanting of prayers with devotees repeating) Now put slowly, like this. (leads chanting of mahā-mantra twice) Now bow down.

*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo...



*Nama oṁ visnu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale. Chant. Śrīmate bhaktivedānta sarasvatī iti nāmine. All right. Come on, Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa. You have no robe?



Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa: No.



Prabhupāda: All right. Come on. (end)





690604IN.NV

Initiation Lecture and Bhagavān dāsa's Marriage Ceremony

-

New Vrindaban, June 4, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*So there is a problem in our life. The Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata says,



nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



Ṛṣabhadeva says that people are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means intensely. Intensely intoxicated. Pra means intensely, and mattaḥ, mattaḥ means intoxicated. So the disease, material disease, is intensely intoxicated in the matter of sense gratification. This is material disease. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And impelled by this propensity of sense gratification, they are prepared to do any kind of nonsense. Vikarma. Vikarma means what we should not do. Just like a man steals. He knows that stealing is not good, but he wants to satisfy some sense; *therefore he is committing stealing also. Therefore he is mad. He knows that "If I am arrested for this stealing or committing this offense, I'll be punished. I may be hanged or..." There are so many things. But still, because he is mad after some sense gratification, he commits such sinful activities. This is practical. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Vikarma means the actions which we should not have done. Why? Yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti. Indriya, indriya means sense. Prītaya means satisfaction. Simply for the satisfaction of the senses. If one is philosopher, he can understand, "Why we should be so much busy for sense gratification?" Now we can give one example. Everyone is trying, working hard for his sense gratification. Nobody is trying... Suppose if I say that "I want to satisfy my senses in this way. Will you kindly work for it?" Nobody will... "Oh, why I shall work for you? You can work for your own satisfaction." Nobody will.



So if that is the position, that I want to satisfy my senses, whether the senses are mine? That they do not know. What are the senses? The senses means this body. If this body actually belongs to me, then, of course, there is meaning that I satisfy my senses of this body. But if we philosophically see whether this body belongs to me... It is very doubtful whether this body belongs to me, because I have got this body from my father and mother. So it may belong to my father and mother. Or if I am a slave, then it may belong to my master. Or even if I am not slave, because I belong to some state, this body belongs to the state. Immediately if the state calls, "Come on. You sacrifice your body in the Vietnam," oh, you have to do that. So in this way, if you analytically study, you'll see the body does not belong to you. Then why should you be so much dexterous to satisfy? Just try to understand. I am not interested to satisfy the senses of your body; I am interested to satisfy the senses of my body. But if this body does not belong to me, then why should we be so much expert in satisfying the senses? Therefore they are called pramattaḥ, intensely intoxicated. It is philosophical vision that "This body does not belong to me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Hṛṣīkeśa. I am claiming this hand "my hand," but as soon as it is paralyzed it is no more my hand; it is physician's hand or Kṛṣṇa's hand or somebody's hand. So in this way we have to study. This is called philosophical vision. So Bhāgavata says they are mad after sense gratification, as a result of which he's getting different types of body. Because body does not belong to him. Just like if you pay different types of rent, you get different types of apartment. If you pay nicely, you get very good apartment in New York, in Fifth Avenue or something like that. Or if you cannot pay, then... Similarly, we are getting this apartment, body, under different condition. So we should understand that we have to get such a nice body that no more we'll have to change. That should be the destination of one's progress. That they do not know.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to put before this bewildered human society what is the destination of his life. The destination is... Everywhere in Vedic literature you'll find. Just like Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, is saying in the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Tenth Chapter,

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*"The highest perfection is that one who comes to Me, reaches the abode of Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept this miserable body." We do not understand that this body is miserable. Actually, any body. Either you get a princely body or a dog's body, because you have accepted a material body, therefore you have to suffer. You have to suffer. There is no excuse. Because you have got American beautiful body... Sometimes I meet some American gentlemen. They are under impression that India is a starving country. Accepting that India is starving country, but does it mean that America is a very happy country? No. That is their mistake. They simply think that "Because we have got enough money, therefore we are in happiness." No. If there is happiness, why the young boys and girls become hippies? No. Happiness is different. So long you have got this material body, there is no question of happiness, either this American body or Indian body. That they do not know. They are thinking that "Let me get an American body, or a demigod body or this body, that body, that body." But Bhāgavata says, yāvan na prītir mayi vāsudeve na mucyate deha*-yogena tāvat. So long one does not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or love of Godhead, there is no question of getting out of this entanglement of material body. There is no question. You have to accept some body, either you accept this body or that body. And as soon as you accept this body, material body, you have to go the threefold miseries.



*So the scientist, the philosopher, they are not studying what is the cause. Everyone is trying to get out of all sorts of miserable problems, but they do not know what is that problem. The problem is this body. But they have no knowledge what is this body, how it is working, what is the soul, how it is transmigrating. They are all rascals, fools. They have no knowledge. And they are trying to make a solution of the problem. There is a story... Not... Yes, take it for story, that sosera bhetare bujugheche (?). If somebody is haunted by a ghost, there was some expert, I mean to say, chanter, who can drive away that ghost by mantra. And they usually use the mustard seed. They chant the mantra and they throw the mustard seed on the person who is ghost*-haunted, and the ghost is driven away. So there is a story that the ghost entered the mustard. He is throwing the mustard, but the ghost has already entered the mustard. Similarly, we are trying to solve the problems, but the problem is this body. The ghost is within this body. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Of course, we daily discuss these things, that "I am not this body," and what are the problems. The sum and substance of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we want to go back to Kṛṣṇa. There is another nature. Just like you are seeing this material nature, so many stars and planets. We are very much busy studying, but we have no knowledge practically about this material world even. But we get information from Vedic literature that this material world, cosmic manifestation, is only one-fourth part of the whole God's creation. So there is another nature, which is called spiritual nature, and there is spiritual planets, Vaikuṇṭhas, and Kṛṣṇaloka, the highest planet.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to transfer oneself to that Kṛṣṇa planet, and the process is given very easy in this age. In this age of quarrel and dissension and disagreement, there are so many symptoms of this fallen age. So there is no other alternative. You cannot execute the process of meditation or sacrifice or temple worship. They cannot be executed very nicely because the circumstances are different. Therefore kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Therefore in this age, there is no other alternative process for getting out of these material clutches. Simply, the simple process, I mean to say, offered by Lord Caitanya. It is not Caitanya's manufacture; it is authorized from Vedic śāstras, that we have to realize ourself, our destination of life, our mission of this human form of life simply by this process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And we initiate persons for this mantra. Initiation means beginning. Not that immediately after initiation one becomes perfect. And this marriage ceremony also... Perhaps it is a new thing I have introduced, that I take part in the marriage ceremony of my disciples. Actually, I do it because I want to see them, I mean to say, without any anxiety. Because so long there will be anxiety, one cannot execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. So any boy or girl, naturally, especially boys... Boys, if they like, they can keep oneself brahmacārī throughout, celibacy life. But for girls it is not very easy. Therefore we have introduced this marriage ceremony. Many young boys and girls come to us. So that is recommended in Vedic... Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He also married, twice married. His first wife died. He married for the second time. So marriage is not, I mean to say, against our movement. Narottama das Ṭhākura sings, gṛha vā vanete thāko, hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāko. That is the thing. One should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. We have got in our society... Just like I am sannyāsī, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is sannyāsī. So we are renounced order. But there are many gṛhasthas, just like Hayagrīva dāsa adhikārī and others. So there is no such distinction that one has to take the path of the renounced order of life. The real essence of our life should be how much we are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

*So keeping this point of view, if we follow the regulative principles, then... The real point is that we must be satisfied-we should not be disturbed*-and execute peacefully, happily, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so that in our next life we may be transferred to Kṛṣṇaloka. We cannot go to any other planet even within this material world by this mechanical way. No. Everyone has to prepare. Because we are conditioned. We have to get out of the conditional stage; *then it is possible we can transfer to any planet we like. That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*So we have to prepare where we want to go. That is real education. Either by the yogic principle or by cultivation of knowledge or by this devotional service, the whole idea is how to transfer oneself to the better condition of life. The better, the best condition of life is to mad*-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "If anyone," Kṛṣṇa says, "if anyone comes to Me, he hasn't got to come back again to take this cycle of birth and death." So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give that highest, topmost position, that no more coming to this material world, either this planet or that planet. We may go to the moon planet, but that will not solve our real problem. The real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Anywhere you go in the material planet, either by sputniks or by your tapasya or by meditation, if you, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ [Bg. 8.16], even if you go to the highest planet, there the four principles of material miseries are there. But if you go, mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. These are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand what is the problem of life.



So this marriage ceremony is not for sense gratification. We should always remember. It is helping one another. The husband will help the wife, the wife will help the husband, so that both of them become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make their human life perfect. So there is no question of divorce. There is no question of separation. Because divorce, separation, these are meant for sense gratification. As soon as there is some lack of sense gratification, there is immediately divorce or separation. No. Here there is no such question. So our, this new bride and bridegroom should always remember that in any condition of life they should remain together. And that will be possible if they concentrate their ideas to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it will be possible. Otherwise māyā will attack in so many ways and cause disruption in so many ways. So our... We are taking part in this marriage ceremony not like ordinary marriage. It is for making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You should always remember that this marriage has no separation, no divorce. Lifetime. The husband will help the wife, the wife will help. There are so many things, duties of the wife. There are so many things, duty of the husband. And if they properly execute their respective duties and engage themselves simply in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the life will be very happy, and not only in this life, next life also. So take this opportunity, be happy. I want to see... Sarve sukhena bhavantu. That is the Vedic mission. Let everyone become happy. Sarve sukhena bhavantu. Let everyone be happy. And without being happy, nobody can execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So let us begin our work now. Who will be initiated? You are both be initiated? [break] Remembers. Yaḥ smaret. Smaret means remembers. Whom remembers? Puṇḍarīkākṣam, the lotus*-eyed Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Puṇḍarīkākṣam. Sa, that person, bahya means externally, abhyantaram means internally, śuciḥ. Sa bahyābhyantaram. Apavitraḥ pavitro vā. Apavitraḥ means contaminated, and pavitra means liberated, without any contamination. Infected or disinfected. So in the material world we are all infected. This is the disinfecting process, simply remembering Kṛṣṇa, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam. So this initiation is to teach how to remember always Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, as soon as we hear, we immediately remember Kṛṣṇa, His speech in the Bhagavad-gītā, His form, His name, His quality, His pastimes. Everything comes. So we have to practice that. Then we remain always uncontaminated. And if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then there is chance of... Just like in the medical science, if there is some epidemic disease, they give some vaccination. I think in Los Angeles you gave me some vaccination? (chuckles) What is that, flus?

Hayagrīva: Hong Kong flu.



*Prabhupāda: Ah. Hong Kong flu. Yes. So everyone took that vaccination. So our Hayagrīva prabhu took me also. "All right, let us have." (laughter) So there was no attack. Fortunately, there was no attack. So similarly, this world is Hong Kong flu. (laughter) Māyā is always ready to attack. Always. So we have to take this injunction, this antivaccine, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro lāgi'. That song, Jīv Jāgo, Jīv Jāgo. "I have brought this medicine for killing this Hong Kong flu of māyā." Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro lāgi', hari*-nāma mahā-mantra lao tumi māgi. Now you take. This is greatest contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to fight against this attack of material influence. Everyone is subjected. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Under the three modes of material nature people are entangled. So to get out of this, the same proposition, as I explained in the beginning, to get out of this entanglement of constant transmigrating from one body to another, so this is the mantra. Simply to... Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam. Puṇḍarīkākṣam means Kṛṣṇa. So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll be forced to remember Him. As soon as the word "Kṛṣṇa" is there and the more you are practiced to this habit, then simply we'll see Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-nothing more. You'll see nothing. Sarvatra sphūrti tāra iṣṭa-deva mūrti. As you make advance, then you'll see a tree, but you'll see Kṛṣṇa. You'll not see the form of tree. Sarvatra sphūrti tāra iṣṭa-deva... Because one who is conversant with the science of Kṛṣṇa, he'll know how His energies are working in so many ways; *therefore he'll be sympathetic. That is universal vision. That is universal love. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then there will be universal love. Otherwise it will be simply talks. So yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bahyābhyantara. He is always in the uncontaminated stage, noninfected stage. So this is very nice. One should take it very seriously. One should try to understand it seriously. Your life will be sublime. The meaning of this namo apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthām*-any condition. We don't make any condition. There is no condition. Why shall we...? Anyone can accept. Sarvāvasthām, any position. There are two position only, contaminated or uncontaminated. That's all. So supposing everyone is contaminated. That's all right. The medicine is there. You make immediately uncontaminated. So sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. It doesn't matter what is your position. You take simply to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your life will be sublime. That is the initiation. Now chant.



Vande ahaṁ śrī guru... (devotees chant responsively) [break] So one finish, then next, then next. Each Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. In this way you come this side, again begin from this side, other side. And there are ten kinds of offenses, try to avoid. And four principles you know? Four regulative principles you know? What is that?

Bhagavān: No meat, fish or eggs, no intoxication, no illicit sex, and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. So what is your name?



Bhagavān: My name is Bill.



Prabhupāda: Bill. So your spiritual name is Bhavānanda. Bhavānanda.



Devotee: There's a Bhavānanda in Los Angeles.



Prabhupāda: There is? Oh. Then give him name... Bhagavān dāsa. (devotees laugh, "Haribol!") All right. Thank you. [break] ...oṁ... Chant.



Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda: No, no.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



(devotees chant responsively) [break]



Kṛṣṇabhāmini: No meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. So what is your name?



Kṛṣṇabhāmini: Inez.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Kṛṣṇabhāmini: Inez.



Prabhupāda: Spelling? Is there any name Indumati?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: There is? Indira?



Devotee: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Then, your name... I'm trying to find out beginning with "I." All right, don't find now. So is there any name Maṅgala? No? All right. Your name is Kṛṣṇabhāmini. Kṛṣṇabhāmini. K*-r-i-s-h-n-a, bhāmini, b-h-a-m-i-n-i. Kṛṣṇabhāmini.



Kṛṣṇabhāmini: Oh. (bowing down)



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

*śrīmate bhaktivedānta*-svāmin iti nāmine



[break]



Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇabhāmini, my Godsister..." You can say. "Bhagavān dāsa prabhu..."



Hayagrīva: Bhagavān dāsa prabhu.



Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇabhāmini..."



Hayagrīva: Kṛṣṇabhāmini...



Prabhupāda: (with Hayagriva repeating word for word) "...my Godsister was so long under our care. Now we give her under your charge. You accept her as your wife and take care of her throughout the whole life. Now we give her under your charge. You accept her as your wife and take care of her throughout her whole life, not only materially but also spiritually for advancement of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness." You say, "Yes, I accept Kṛṣṇabhāmini "(Bhagavān repeats) "as my wife. I shall maintain her (?) throughout her life and look after her happiness both materially and spiritually." Now you say, "Bhagavān dāsa prabhu, I accept you..." You say? (Kṛṣṇabhāmini repeating) "I accept you as my husband. I shall serve you... I shall serve you throughout my life so that happily and peacefully we can execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Yes. Now you change this garland.



Hayagrīva: Change garlands. [break] (kīrtana) (end)





690716IN.LA

Lecture at Initiation Fire Sacrifice

-

Los Angeles, July 16, 1969



Prabhupāda: (devotees chanting responsively)



...pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato api vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahya abhyantaraṁ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



The purport of this mantra, namaḥ, namaḥ means "I surrender," or "I become submissive," namaḥ. So one has to become submissive. Apavitraḥ pavitro vā. Apavitraḥ means contaminated. This material world is contamination, infection of the spirit soul. We are suffering... Just like in ordinary diseased condition we suffer on account of infection, similarly the..., one who is intelligent, he should understand that this conditional life is suffering. One should not be foolishly very optimistic, that "I am very well situated. I am enjoying life." This is ignorance. Nobody is enjoying life in this material world; *everyone is suffering. Saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka: ** this world is just like blazing forest fire; *so everyone is suffering, contaminated. This is the sign, symptoms of contamination, that suffering, threefold miseries-ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. But as the animals, they suffer, but they do not understand, this is animal life. The animal is being taken to the slaughterhouse, but still he's happy. This is animal life. So when one cannot understand his sufferings of this material contamination, his life is animal life. He knows that he's suffering, but he's trying to cover the suffering by some nonsense means: by forgetfulness, by drinking, by intoxication, by this, by that. He's aware of his suffering, but he wants to cover his suffering in a nonsense way. Just like the rabbit. The rabbit, when he's in face to face of some ferocious animal, the rabbit closes the eyes. He thinks he is safe. Similarly, simply by trying to cover our sufferings by artificial means, that is not solution. That is ignorance. The suffering can be solved by enlightenment of spiritual life, spiritual bliss. That is the way. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. Ānanda means bliss, transcendental bliss. And there is ocean of transcendental bliss. If you want to dip into this ocean, there is chance for you. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Vedānta-sūtra says that we spirit soul, we are by nature full of bliss. That is our nature, ānandamaya. But we have been contaminated by this material affection. So one has to come out of it. That is the process of self-realization, liberation, whatever you call. The process is to come out of this contamination.



*So this mantra suggests that either you are contaminated or not contaminated... It is not that... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that so long we are contaminated in the māyā, we can adopt any means of self*-realization, and after self-realization, when we become liberated, we become one with the Supreme and there is no more any work. This is partially true. Partially true means when actually you realize yourself, then you have no material activities. That is the sign of self-realization. This is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Self*-realization, liberation, the sign is that he becomes joyful, prasannātmā, immediately. If you have actually realized yourself, simply by bluffing that "I am God, I am this, I am..." No. There are signs. If you are God, then you must be as joyful as God, as Kṛṣṇa. If you are suffering still and you are claiming that you are God, that is nonsense. You needn't become God. You, simply if you become in the light of God, you become joyful. Just like from the darkness of night, if you simply come to the sunshine, immediately your position is changed. It does not require that you have to become the sun. Simply by coming to the sunlight your purpose is fulfilled. So the sunlight and the sun is not different; *they are one unit. But sunlight is not sun. That is knowledge. If we, if simply by coming you can come into the sunlight, if I think that I have become identical with the sun, that is nonsense. Sun, you cannot become identical with the sun. It is so powerful, the temperature is so high and great, that you cannot approach even sun. The scientists say even from so many millions of miles away, if a planet or somebody goes near the sun, immediately he will be burned into ashes. So this is false claim that brahma*-bhūtaḥ means one becomes God. No. That means that you come to the light of God. That is also nice, to come to the light of God.



*So brahma*-bhūtaḥ... Anyway, if you realize yourself that you are not... That brahma-bhūtaḥ means simply to understand that I am not the material body. To be convinced firmly with all reasons and argument, firmly conviction, this is called faith. Faith is not flickering. One must be firmly convinced. So then you immediately become joyful. Just like if you are implicated with some undesirable affairs and if you, some way or other, your lawyer advises, "Oh, you are free from this implication. The law does not bind you," just like you feel pleasure, "Oh, I'm not in this implication?" "Yes," similarly, as soon as one is convinced that "I am not this material body," then immediately he becomes joyful. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati [Bg. 18.54]. And what is that joyfulness? There is no lamentation and there is no hankering. If you have hankering, then you are not joyful. If you have lamentation, there is no hankering. If you have hankering, then you are not joyful. If you have lamentation, then you are not joyful. These are the signs. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. And if you are actually self-realized soul, in the light of God, then your treatment will be equal to all living entities. Not that "He is animal, he is man, he is black, he is white, he's this, he's Indian, he's American, he's Chinese." No. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Everyone is spirit soul, son of God, part and parcel of God. This realization. Prasannātmā. He has no enemy. He becomes enemyless immediately, because he sees everyone part and parcel of God, everything energy of God, everything belongs to God, everything enjoyable by God, by Kṛṣṇa. In this way he sees in everything Kṛṣṇa, and nothing else. Prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu... [Bg. 18.54]. That is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Parām. That is transcendental situation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to take one from the material concept of life, material consciousness, to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then he will be joyful. He will be no more hankering for anything material, neither he'll be sorry for any so*-called material loss. And he'll be equal to everyone, universal brotherhood. So they do not know... They simply talk of these high sounds. But here is the process. If you adopt the process, then you come to the platform. It is open for everyone. So this mantra suggests that either you are in the material consciousness or not, apavitraḥ pavitraḥ vā, or in spiritual consciousness. It is not that when you are delivered from the material consciousness and come to the spiritual platform your service stops to Kṛṣṇa. That is not. Our service is eternal. We are serving here Kṛṣṇa, and after leaving this body, when you go directly to Kṛṣṇa, faced with..., the service is there. The service is the main means and the end. Not that this is simply means, and the end is something else. No. It is so nice, it is means and end, both. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa here, and when we go to Kṛṣṇa we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, like that.

Devotee: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: You see the pictures? They are also chanting.



*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

tābhir ya eva nijarūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*This picture is the symbolic... Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. There is a rasa, mellow-every ānanda. Just like if you take a nice fruit, mango, the taste is pleasing. That is called rasa, that taste. Anyway, anything enjoy, there is a rasa. Rasa. You love somebody, you kiss somebody, embrace somebody, there is a rasa. So this picture is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Here we have got that taste of rasa in a perverted manner. But cinmaya-rasa means it continues. This Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, they are enjoying, dancing, chanting. That is eternally; that is never stopped. It is not that they become old and there is no more enjoyment or they are separated or somebody, Kṛṣṇa goes somewhere and the Rādhārāṇī goes to somewhere. No. Everything is eternal. They are enjoying. That is the difference between this rasa and that rasa. This rasa is temporary. Your youthful enjoyment will not exist; *it will be finished. Your American life will be finished. Your this life, that life, everything will be finished*-and finished forever. Not that you are going to have it again. Therefore this is flashing. It is coming and going. But that life is eternal. That is ānanda-cinmaya. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. This ānanda-cinmaya-rasa is called hladini-śakti, Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, na tasya karyaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. These are Vedic versions, that "The Supreme has nothing to do." Just like here if we enjoy in the hotel some dancing, and next morning I'll have to go into the garbage for bringing money for that dancing. I'll work, go underground to dig out garbage. It is not like that, that Kṛṣṇa has to go next morning to garbage. (laughter) You see? It is not that I'll have to acquire money by flattering somebody or working some in hell. No. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitā... That is the expansion of His pleasure potency. Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. When Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, he says, confirms, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are Paraṁ Brahman, You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is understanding of Gītā. And after reading I understand that I am God. What is this nonsense? Where do you get this idea? Where it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā? Simply bluffing, all these rascals, scholars, and so-called commentators. They're all rascals. They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, understanding Kṛṣṇa, accepting, Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān śāśvataṁ puruṣam [Bg. 10.12]. The Supreme is puruṣam. He is not female. Just like some rascal thinks that He's Kālī, He's Durgā. No! Kālī, Durgā are His potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva. The Supreme has many kinds of potencies. Goddess Kālī is also one of the potencies, Durgā is also one of the potencies. Not that Durgā is the Absolute Truth. This is nonsense. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā. What is that Durgā? Durgā is the material nature, very powerful. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktiḥ. She has got the power of creating, maintaining and dissolving. She is so powerful. You have seen Durgā's picture. She has got ten hands. That's a long story, of course, Durgā, Caṇḍī. These are all described in the Vedic literatures. But she is not the absolute personality. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva. She is working simply just like shadow. As the shadow moves when the original substance moves, similarly, she is only working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. She is the external potency. Similarly, Rādhārāṇī is a pleasure potency, and these gopīs are expansion of Rādhārāṇī, pleasure potency. So they are not ordinary girls, neither Kṛṣṇa is enjoying like us, that in the hotel at dance and in the morning the garbage. No. It is not like that. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis [Bs. 5.37].



*So when you enter into the Kṛṣṇa science you get so much volumes of transcendental knowledge, and we are trying to present before you this knowledge in so many ways, by cleansing your heart from this material contamination. And this initiation is the beginning of cleaning the contamination. Therefore this mantra suggests, apavitraḥ pavitraḥ vā: either you be contaminated or not contaminated. When one is not contaminated, he's relishing this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra by associating with Kṛṣṇa. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he's also chanting. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also chanting, but His chanting and my chanting, there is little difference. That chanting is on the transcendental platform, actually relishing with Kṛṣṇa. My chanting... In the beginning there are three stages: offensive stages, liberated stage, and relishing stage. So you will be initiated for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, there will be so many offenses. So we have to offend..., we have to defend ourself from the offenses. There are ten kinds of offenses. You'll get the list. So we shall try to avoid. Then our chanting will be purified. And when the chanting is purified, then immediately you are liberated. And after liberation? Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: [Bg. 18.54] your life of devotional service actually begins. Then you relish reciprocation of love with Kṛṣṇa.

So everything can be attained simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Everything. The means is the end and the means is the whole. It is not that we accept something and give it up and again come to another stage. No. If you have got conviction, if you have got faith, if you are strenuous, immediately you are in the platform. Apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. So any stage of life, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam, anyone who remembers Puṇḍarīkākṣam, Kṛṣṇa... (aside:) Sit like this. Yes. Puṇḍarīkākṣam. Puṇḍarīka means lotus; akṣam means eyes. Puṇḍarīkākṣam. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ. Externally, internally, he becomes immediately purified. So keep on chanting, you keep yourself purified, māyā cannot touch you. Māyā's contamination will not touch you. Just like if you take vaccine, the infectious disease will not touch you. Similarly, if you keep yourself vaccinated with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the māyā has no power to touch you. And if you can keep, then you will be accustomed. Just like a child, when he learns walking, he requires little help. He may fall down, but that doesn't matter. He again stands up. Similarly, in the beginning there may be childlike falldown, but if you stick to the position, then one day you'll be able to walk freely, without any hamper. So this mantra, apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthām, any condition of life, you can simply remember Puṇḍarīkākṣam, Kṛṣṇa. As soon as you chant "Kṛṣṇa," you remember everything.

*So this remembering is the whole thing. If you have got always within your heart Kṛṣṇa, by sound or by mental thoughts, by work, some way or other, by reading books, any way, if simply you keep your consciousness in Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. That's all. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā such person who is keeping always Kṛṣṇa within himself, he's certified as the greatest of all yogis. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ, "Of all the yogis," mad-gatenāntarātmanā, "simply who is keeping Me within his heart..."

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*"He's first*-class yogi." You don't require to labor and pay somewhere some five dollars, ten dollars, and practice this gymnastic. No. It is not possible. And as soon as you come out, you'll again engage yourself in all nonsense activities. No. The first-class yoga system is to keep yourself always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is always, you are pure. No contamination of this material world can touch you, and you are first-class yogi. All right. (chants fire sacrifice prayers responsively with devotees) Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





690827IN.HAM

Initiation Lecture

-

Hamburg, August 27, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*...avidyā*-karma-saṁjñānyā

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate



*This is a verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. It is stated there that viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā, "The energy of the Supreme Lord is spiritual." Energy and the energetic, they are nondifferent. Just like the sunshine is the energy of the sun globe, but the quality of sunshine and the sun globe is the same. It is not different. The sunshine is bright, illuminating, hot. Similarly, we can understand the sun globe, the temperature may be very high, but the quality is the same. So viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. God has got one energy. That energy is spiritual energy. And kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā: and the same energy is manifested in another form, which is called kṣetrajña, or marginal energy, or the energy in which we living creatures are acting. Ksetrajñākhya tathā parā. And avidyā*-karma-saṁjña, and tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. And besides these energies, there is another energy, which is avidyā, ignorance. Karma-saṁjña: and it is based on fruitive activities. Anyā means besides these two energies, spiritual energy and the marginal energy, living entities, there is another energy, which is called avidyā. Avidyā means ignorance. And karma-saṁjña: and in that energy, one has to enjoy his, the fruit of his own labor. This is the material world. This material world is also energy of Kṛṣṇa, or God, but here ignorance prevails. Ignorance is prominent. Avidyā, ignorance. Therefore one has to work. Practically one hasn't got to work, but because he is, one is in avidyā, ignorance, therefore he has to work. Avidyā-karma-saṁjñānyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate.



*So actually, there is one energy, spiritual energy. Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the whole spirit, and the energies emanating from Him, that is also spiritual. Śaktiḥ śaktimator abhinnaḥ. In the Vedic language we understand that the śaktimān, or the energetic, Kṛṣṇa, and the energy, they are nondifferent. So this material energy is also nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. In other words of Vedic language it is said, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman." In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, Lord Kṛṣṇa says that māyā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Sarvam means all; *idam, this manifestation, this cosmic manifestation, whatever you are experiencing... Kṛṣṇa says that "I am expanded as this cosmic manifestation." Māyā tatam idaṁ sarvam avyakta*-mūrtinā. This impersonal feature, avyakta, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ: [Bg. 9.4] "Everything is resting on Me, or everything is expansion of Myself." Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ: "But I am not there." This philosophy, acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different, is our philosophy, inaugurated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although it is in the Vedānta-sūtras. So everything is simultaneously one and different from the Supreme Lord. But there are two classes of philosophers. One class says that God and the living entities are different, and there is another philosopher, monist philosopher. They say God and the living entities are one. So this acintya-bhedābheda philosophy adjusts that "God and the living creatures, they are simultaneously one and different." They are one in quality, just like the energy and the energetic, the sun globe and the sunshine. In quality, in sunshine there is heat, there is illumination, light. In the sun globe also, there is heat, there is illumination. But the degrees are quite different. You can bear the heat and illumination of the sunshine, but you cannot go to the sun globe or you can bear the heat and temperature there. The scientist says that so many millions miles away, if somebody goes or some planet goes near the sun globe, it will immediately burn into ashes. Similarly, God and ourself, Kṛṣṇa and living entities, they are qualitatively one, but quantitatively, we are very minute. Aṇu. We are smaller than the atom. Nowadays there is atomic theory. We can see the atoms within the holes of the windows when there is focus of sunlight. That is called prasareṇu. Prasareṇu means six atoms combined together, then it is visible. Otherwise, atom is also not visible with our naked eyes. There is atomic theory, paramāṇuvāda, in Vedic literature also. And Bhāgavata says that the scientists may be one day able to count how many atoms are there within this universe. This is not possible, of course, but it is theoretically. The Vedic, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that "It may be possible one day by scientific research, one can count how many atoms are there within this cosmic manifestation. Still, it is not possible to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead by our ordinary sense perception." Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Kṛṣṇa, or God, is not perceivable by your material senses. It is not possible. Ataḥ, therefore, śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Nāmādi. Nāmādi means "beginning from His name." Because we try to understand Kṛṣṇa beginning by chanting His holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, after chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, when our heart is purified, then we can understand His form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1].

*So either His name or His form or His quality or His paraphernalia or His activities*-none of these can be understood by your material senses. It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Indriyaiḥ, the senses. Then how it is understood? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. When we take to the transcendental loving service of the Lord, then the Lord reveals Himself. We cannot understand. He reveals Himself. Therefore sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā means tongue. The first business of is to engage the tongue in the service of the Lord. How you can engage the tongue in the service of the Lord? By chanting and glorifying His name, fame, quality, form, paraphernalia, pastimes. This is the business of the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. When the tongue is engaged, gradually all other senses are also engaged in the service of the Lord. The tongue is the most important sense within our body; *therefore for controlling our senses it is recommended that one should control first of all the tongue. Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings in his song: tā'ra madhye jihvā ati lobhamaya sudurmati. Our present conditional state is like this. Śarīra avidyā-jāl, we are packed up in the network of this material body. It is just like a fish is caught within a net. Similarly, we are caught up by this network of this material body. Not only this body*-we are changing this net in various phases of life. There are 8,400,000's of holes of this network. This is a network of ignorance, avidyā-jāl. Avidyā means ignorance. Śarīra avidyā-jāl jaḍendriya tāhe kāl. And this network, my imprisonment within this network of ignorance, is being continued on account of these dangerous senses. Sense enjoyment. So out of these dangerous senses, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, the tongue is the most dangerous. Tongue is the most dangerous. The tongue... If we cannot control the tongue, then the tongue will oblige me to take different types of body, one after another. If I am very much fond of satisfying my tongue by flesh and blood, then nature, material nature, will give me facility to taste flesh and blood fresh and give me a body of the tiger. If I do not discriminate of eating, then material nature will give me a body just like a hog, when we have to accept as our food stool.

*So we are so*-called materially suffering and enjoying according to this body. Therefore this body, this human form of body, is a great opportunity, because God realization begins by engaging the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. By engaging the tongue in the loving service of the Lord, one can make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, ultimate realization of God, the tongue. So this tongue in the human body can be engaged. In other body, in the cat's body, dog's body, tiger's body... Tiger may be a very powerful animal. No animal is powerful or better than human beings. That is accepted. So this human form of life is a great boon to the living entity who is traveling through the cycle of birth and death, perpetually changing different sorts of body. Here is the opportunity, human form of body. We can utilize the tongue properly and get out of these clutches. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. So sevā, sevā means service; *jihvā ādau, beginning from the tongue. So if we can keep our tongue engaged, always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... Because "Kṛṣṇa," this sound, is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. Nothing is different from Him. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is not different. In the material sense, everything is different. I myself is different from this body. I am not this body. But Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's body is the same. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, "Rascals and fools, they deride at Me because I appear as a human being. They are thinking just like I am ordinary human being." Paraṁ bhāvam ajananto. "These rascals do not know what is My influence and what I am." Paraṁ bhāvam. "What is My nature they do not know. Without knowing Me, they consider, 'Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary human being.' " Avajānanti mūḍha. This very particular word has been used, mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascals. So in spite of this warning, there are so many rascals passing as big scholars. They say like this. When there is order of Kṛṣṇa that "You surrender unto Me," the rascals comment, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa but the unborn spirit which is within Kṛṣṇa." He does not know that Kṛṣṇa is not different from His body, Kṛṣṇa is not different from His name, Kṛṣṇa is not different from His fame. Anything pertaining to Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. They are monists, they are philosophizing that oneness, but as soon as they come to Kṛṣṇa, immediately they divide: "Kṛṣṇa is different from His body," or "Kṛṣṇa's body is different from Kṛṣṇa."

*So ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. So Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa is not different. Therefore, as soon as my tongue touches the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, that means immediately it associates with Kṛṣṇa. So if you constantly keep yourself associated with Kṛṣṇa by chanting this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then just imagine how you are being easily purified simply by this process, chanting, jihvādau, engaging the tongue in chanting. And your tongue wants very palatable dishes to taste. So Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He has given you hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes, remnants of foodstuff eaten by Him. You eat. In this way, if you simply make it a determination that "I shall not allow my tongue to taste anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, and I shall engage my tongue always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa," then all perfection is within your hold. All perfection. Two simple things: Don't eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our Kṛṣṇa prasādam are so variegated, nice varieties... The variety is the mother of enjoyment. How much enjoyment you want with your tongue? You can have simply by eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam. And the more your tongue is purified, the more you relish the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Relish. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. It is stated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu that it increases the ocean of bliss, transcendental bliss. Ocean does not increase. We have no experience within this material world. If ocean would have increased, then all the lands would have been swallowed up many long, long years ago. Ocean does not increase. But this ocean, transcendental bliss, is increasing. Some of you must have experienced, those who are actually relishing. The authorities like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he says that "What I shall chant with one tongue? If I would have millions of tongues, then I could chant a little more. And what I shall hear with two ears?" So he's expecting, he's aspiring to have millions of ears and trillions of tongues to relish this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that is another stage, of course, when this chanting will be so melodious that we shall try to have more ears and more tongues to utilize it. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. By our present senses, we cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa, or what is God, what is His name, what is His form, what is His quality. Therefore immediately, if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa by His picture, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is embracing Rādhārāṇī or the gopīs," we shall mistake. Because unless our senses are purified, we shall accept Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī as ordinary young boy or girl and their dealings. But actually it is not. It is pure. Caitanya-caritāmṛta kar has distinguished that the loving affairs of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa and the ordinary, these lustful dealings of human beings, there is a gulf of difference. He compares that the gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa is gold, and our so-called love here is iron. As there is difference between gold and iron, similarly there is difference between the loving affairs of gopīs with Kṛṣṇa and these mundane, so-called lusty affairs between men and women or boys and girls. It is never equal. Therefore, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved... [Brs. 1.2.234]. These present senses, these impure senses, contaminated senses, cannot understand Kṛṣṇa; *therefore we should follow this principle: sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. First of all, engage chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Hara is Rādhā, and Kṛṣṇa, there is. But don't try to understand by the present senses, but simply chant their holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. When your, the dust on the mirror of your heart will be cleansed, and it will cleanse by simply chanting, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, and there will be no more any material condition...

*That is the next stage. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense, then immediately the stage will be that you are freed from all material anxieties. That is the test. How I am advancing in chanting will be tested how far you are free from material anxieties. That's all. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-māha-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Then real life begins. So long you are perturbed by material disturbances, you should know that your spiritual life has not begun. This is confirmed in everywhere. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Prasannātmā. Bhagavad-gītā says, "When one is Brahman realized..." Brahman realized means one who understands that "I am not this body. I am pure spirit soul, eternal servitor of Kṛṣṇa." Simply understanding that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," is not enough. That is not sufficient knowledge. Of course, that is good. That is just on the marginal step between matter and spirit. But you have to transcend completely this material existence and come to the platform of spiritual understanding. So for that purpose you have to go further after Brahman realization. Brahman, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. If you are actually Brahman realized, the symptom will be that you are always joyful, no anxiety. Anxiety, why...? Everything is very nicely discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, or God, and if we think there is something else than Kṛṣṇa, then we are afraid. And those who are convinced and realized souls that there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa, where is the cause of fearfulness? Therefore those who are pure devotees, they are not disturbed even in most distressed condition of life. What they think? They think, tat te 'nukampa...: "My Lord, it is Your great mercy that You have put me into this distressed condition." Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ [SB 10.14.8]. So in the distressed condition, the devotees take it an opportunity that "I have got a very nice opportunity to remember God constantly. Kṛṣṇa, You are so kind that You have given me this distressed condition."

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice. If we try to make progress on this line, we'll feel even... Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate [Bg. 6.20-23]. Bhagavad*-gītā says if one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even in the terrible situation, fearful situation, he is not afraid. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. You see? Prahlāda Mahārāja, a five-years-old boy, his father tortured him like anything. But he was not afraid. He was not afraid. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness state. The boy is not afraid. Even in such tortured condition, when his father challenged him, "Prahlāda, with whose strength you are so powerful that you do not care for me?" he immediately answered, "My dear father, by whose power you are talking like that?" So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that even one is put into the terrible condition of distress, he is not perturbed. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve... There are many verses like that. We can quote hundreds. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is not afraid, any condition of life. Na kutaścana bibhyati. Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api. If he is put into the hell or in heaven or in the spiritual world or any world, he is happy. Tulyārtha-darśinaḥ. He thinks everything is all the same. "Either you put me in the hell or heaven or this or that, (it) is all the same." Because he is always with Kṛṣṇa, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always with him. So where is the cause of being afraid that "This place is not good; this place is very good"? No. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is there is very good. That's all.

So we have to practice and train the tongue very nicely. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. And the more our tongue is engaged in the loving service of Kṛṣṇa... It is very nice service. You simply chant and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Is it very difficult service? Everyone will accept, "Oh, yes." But unfortunately, everyone does not accept. (laughter) (chuckles) You see. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says, etādṛś ī tava kṛpā bhagavan mamāpi: "My dear Lord, You are so kind that You have approached Me in..., by transcendental sound. Or You are always with Me." You can be. If I take, then Kṛṣṇa is always with me. If I reject, then... That is the ignora... "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere" means as soon as we accept, Kṛṣṇa is immediately with us. And as soon as we reject, oh, He is far, far away. So Kṛṣṇa can be with us very easily simply by this chanting or engaging the tongue in His service. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended this process, or He inaugurated this process in this age. Although it is not new system, but He especially introduced because His incarnation is to reclaim the fallen souls of this age. So He... [break] ...before advent of Kṛṣṇa he's simply planning, "As soon as Kṛṣṇa will take birth, I will kill him." This is the plan of the demons, to kill God. Atheism. "God is dead." That is also killing, one sort of killing. "There is no God. I am God." These are all different processes of trying to kill. But God is never killed. [break] Rather, they are killed. That is the whole history everywhere.

Guest: I don't follow. Is it...? Whose choice is it to be a demon? Is it the living entity's choice, complete choice, to be demonic, against God, or is it a part of Kṛṣṇa's energy to put demons, or to have created him that way?



Prabhupāda: No...



Guest: Is it completely each individual's choice to be demonic, or...?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Demon means when he is forgotten, when has lost his sense, that is demon. When has lost his sense, that is demon. Demon means māyayāpahṛta*-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Māyā, by the influence of māyā, the true aspect of knowledge is taken away. Anyone who is trying to establish it that "There is no God," he is demon. That's all. There are so many philosophers, so many atheists, so many scientists. Their only business is to deny God. They are demons. Yes.



Guest: Then is there individual complete choice?



*Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Yes. Apahṛta*-jñānāḥ means just like a madman. For the time being, his natural knowledge is taken away. Crazy. What do we mean by crazy? For the time being, his knowledge is taken away. Similarly, when a living entity is in that position, as somebody has taken away his knowledge, that is demonic condition. But he can be reestablished again in knowledge. Just like a crazy man is sent, mental disorder, to hospital for treatment; again he comes as a sane man. Similarly, the demons are just like crazy men. Even they are treated with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can be reverted to their own position. So this is temporary. This demoniac nature is temporary due to the contact with māyā. Therefore the whole business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā. Then there is no more demonic nature. It is artificial. [break] ...superficial. It comes and goes. As it comes artificially, so it can go also. And the driving method is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Guest: So māyā is temporary, and the only thing that is eternal is Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual energies.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual energy. That is eternal. That is eternal. So we are... Due to our ignorance, we have been very much serious with the temporary situation of māyā and we have forgotten the eternal position. This is our present conditional life. Now this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means His treatment to reclaim the living entity from the clutches of māyā. Then he is situated in his natural position. [break]



...contaminated, impure. Impure condition. Apavitra. And pavitra means pure condition. Apavitraḥ pavitro vā. One may be in impure condition and one may be in pure condition. Sarvāvasthām, in all conditions. Avastha means all conditions. Gato 'pi vā, situated, in any condition situated; yaḥ, anybody; smaret, remembers; puṇḍarīkākṣam. Puṇḍarīkākṣam means "the Lord whose eyes are like the lotus petal." Lotus eyes. Puṇḍarīkākṣam. Sa, that person becomes; *sa bahyābhyantaram. Bahya means externally and abhyantara means internally. Bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified. Another śuci means brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa is called śuci. A brāhmaṇa means a purified person. Not that by birth one becomes pure. No. The purificatory process. There are purificatory processes. Just like in infectious condition, those who are vaccinated, given injection, he is supposed to be purified. He cannot be attacked or infected by the disease. Similarly, in spiritual life also one has to remain purified. The whole process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to purify the people in general from the contaminated condition of material existence. Purifying. It is purifying process. A living entity by nature is pure because he is part and parcel of the Supreme Pure, God. But due to his impure condition, he has forgotten his eternal relationship with God. So this initiation means that one is being accepted as student by the spiritual master to promote him gradually to the purified state, where he can realize himself and God. This is the whole process. In contaminated state we cannot approach. I have given this example many times. Just like if you want to enter into certain place, then you must be adjusted with the conditions. Just like people are going to the moon planet. There it is supposed to be it is very cold. So people go with a certain type of dress by adjusting. Similarly, if you want to enter into the spiritual kingdom, the abode, the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives, so you must be purified. Adjust yourself. Not only to the spiritual kingdom of Kṛṣṇa*-any planet you want to enter, you must adjust yourself in that way. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*If you adjust yourself, then you can go to the higher planetary system. Deva*-vratā devān. Devān means the planetary system or the different planets where demigods are living. Just like this moon planet. This moon planet is also another planet of the demigod Candra. I do not know the modern expedition of going to the moon planet, how far it will be successful. I think it cannot be successful. According to Vedic literature, it cannot be successful because people cannot adjust to enter that planet. One has to adjust, make the bodily condition in that way so that one can live there. In this planet also, there are different climates. In India the climate is different, and your Western country, the climate is different. So when one comes to the Western country, he also adjusts with different coats and shirts. In India we can remain naked body practically throughout the whole year, but you cannot live here. So there is adjustment. So this adjustment, the Bhagavad-gītā says, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. "Those who have adjusted themselves to come to Me, he can come." There is no obstruction. So this initiation process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, means to adjust your condition so that after leaving this body, you can enter into the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: [Bg. 15.6] "That supreme abode, where entering, one does not come back again to this material world, that is My supreme abode." There is...



na yatra bhāsayate sūryo

na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

[Bg. 15.6]



These kind are explained. In that spiritual kingdom there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonshine, there is no need of electricity. And one who goes there, he does not come back. He lives there eternally, blissful life of knowledge.



*So the initiation process means to give the conditioned soul a chance. This chance can be available in this human form of life. The cats and dogs, they cannot take chance of entering into the spiritual kingdom, or they cannot... It is not possible they can take initiation for purifying the body. So everybody, every human being, should take advantage of this form of life, human form of life, and cultivate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And it is very simple and easy also. For this age, Lord..., by the grace of Lord Caitanya, we have got very easy method: simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This mantra also which we uttered just now, it is said, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam: "Anyone who remembers puṇḍarīkākṣam, Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, immediately he becomes purified." Śuci. Śuci. Śuci means purified. Śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu. Three times. So the Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu is the same thing. Kṛṣṇa is the original person of all viṣṇu-tattva. So anyone who is keeping himself always in touch with the vibration of Kṛṣṇa consciousness-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare*-that is the only, I mean to say, guaranteed platform where you can keep yourself purified without any material contamination. And in this purified state, if we can leave this body ultimately, then there is no doubt we enter into the supreme abode of the Personality of Godhead. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, and you read carefully. This initiation does not mean... Of course, this chanting will save you, only chanting. But if you read some literatures also, and the philosophy also, then it will be more and more convincing that you are making progress. And in the Ninth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that this is the process by which you can understand practically whether you are making actually progress in spiritual life. Pratyakṣam avagamaṁ dharmyam. This bhakti-yoga system is so nice that one can directly understand how he is making progress, and very quickly. That's a fact. All of our students who have taken to this process, within very short time, they are realizing that actually they are making some progress. Therefore they are sticking to the principles and going on.

*So my request to you all who are going to be initiated, that you keep always yourself in contact with this chanting and that will make you, I mean to say, able to be always purified, śuci. Material contamination cannot... And you avoid these four principles: illicit sex life, meat*-eating, intoxication of all descriptions. Intoxication does not mean simply liquor. Intoxication means even tea-drinking. Tea is also intoxication, in slight degree. Tea, coffee, cigarettes-everything should be avoided. In India they chew pan. So these things are to be give up, intoxication group, and meat-eating group. Then you make very quickly progress, and by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. After leaving this body, one hasn't got to take another material body and suffer. So long we have got this material body, we have to suffer the material pangs. There cannot be any adjustment. So if anyone is serious for ending all troubles... Everyone wants to live peacefully and happily. That is natural, because spirit soul is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), by nature joyful. He wants to keep himself joyful, but he does not know how eternal joyful life can be attained. That is spiritual life. You cannot become joyful by material adjustment. No. You may be joyful for the time being by drinking or by intoxication, but how long? So long the intoxication influence is there, you may feel something. That is artificially. But that is not actually the state of joyfulness. Real state of joyfulness is to be situated in spiritual life, and when you (are) actually in the spiritual kingdom, then you become sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], eternal life, joyful life, blissful life, with full knowledge.

So on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to distribute this knowledge at least in this part of the world. Now, those who are fortunate, they will take it and be benefited. Our business is to distribute. Now it is up to you. Every individual soul is independent. He may accept or may not accept. That depends on him. But if he accepts, it is good for him. Otherwise, he may make his choice. Kṛṣṇa never..., God never interferes with your independence. No. He will never do that. Then what is the meaning of living being? Dull matter, it has no independence. Even it is a big mountain or big thing, it has no independence. It will stand still. But a small ant, even a microbe, it has got independence because it is living creature. So God has made you or given you little independence. That independence does not mean that you shall misuse it. You shall use it properly. And what is that proper use? To be engaged in His loving service. Just like you citizens of this German state, what you are meant for? You are meant for rendering service to the state. Similarly, the whole... This is a small state. America is a small... Or this planet is a small state. But there is a huge state which is called the cosmic manifestation. That state belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God. So naturally, you have to render service to the supreme state, supreme will. Then it is all right. Your independence is there. So long you are rendering service to the state properly, your independence as citizen is there. But as soon as you rebel against the state, your independence is gone. Similarly, our, this conditional life is due to our rebellious condition towards God. As soon as we agree surrender and be one with Him by transcendental loving service, the whole thing becomes adjusted. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to teach people and to give them practical suggestion and help to... (end)



691226IN.BOS

Initiation Lecture

-

Boston, December 26, 1969



*Prabhupāda: So this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is purifying your existence. Yasmād śuddhyed sattvam. Sattvam means existence. You are existing, I am existing, God is existing eternally. The temporary existence that we see at the present moment, this is not our existence. This is our diseased condition, crazy condition. Piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchana haya. Piśācī means ghost or witches. When one is haunted by ghost he becomes upset of his own consciousness and talks all kinds of nonsense. Similarly, when our existence is covered by the material ghost we talk so many nonsense: "I am this body, and anything in relationship with this body is mine. I am dying. I belong to this family. I belong to this community, nation, this, that, planet." These are all just like a man haunted by ghost speaks nonsense, these are all nonsense. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to cure this disease. Śuddhyed sattvam, existence. That is called svarūpa, real identification. Mukti. Mukti means... This word is very popular, mukti, liberation. What is that liberation? Liberation means to come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is liberation. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti is defined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpam. Anyathā rūpam. Rūpam means form. We are in a form which is not liberated form. Material form. This form which we have got just now, this form, when it will be finished, you'll never get this form. Another form. Another. Just like bubbles. Bubbles in the ocean, they come out. You cannot have the exact same bubbles, same measurement. No. That is going on. Similarly, this rūpam is anyathā. This is not our rūpam, our form. Therefore sometimes in Vedic literature it is stated, "formless." Formless does not mean has no form. Not this form. That is formless. But people with less intelligence, they think formless means there's no form. Formless means not this form. This is anyathā rūpam. This is different from our real form. So mukti means to give up this unreal form and accept your real form. Just like freedom from disease. Get free from the diseased condition and come to real healthy life.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for bringing men to the real life. Always remember this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. It takes... Just like to cure a disease it takes little time. But if you take to the process of cure, then that is very good. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead says,

*api cet su*-durācāro

*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

[Bg. 9.30]



*Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac*-chāntiṁ nigacchati. Those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, even there are some faults, still, they are saintly persons. That is the recommendation of Kṛṣṇa. Because that fault may be due to his past habits, but that is being stopped. Just like you make the switch off, no more electric current will act, but the fan still gives some rounds due to the past force. Similarly, a Kṛṣṇa consciousness person, even if he's found in fault, Kṛṣṇa says, "No." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. "He's saintly person, sādhu." Why? Now, the process he has taken up, that will cure him in due course of time. Śaṣvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. So these who have fortunately come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness by association, by practice, this is the way. So stick to it. Don't go away. Even if you find some fault, don't go away from the association. Struggle, and Kṛṣṇa will help you.



*So this initiation process means beginning of this life of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And we shall try to be situated in our original consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Real consciousness, as it is recommended by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that He identifies Himself as eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and this is liberation, and this is mukti. If you simply stick to this principle, gopī*-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80], that "I am nothing except the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then you are in the liberated platform. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. You keep yourself. And for keeping yourself in that consciousness, the simple method is this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa. You keep yourself chanting as many hours, twenty-four hours. Why as many hours? Twenty-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Lord Caitanya says, "This is to be practiced twenty-four hours." And that you can do. It requires simply practice. Even in sleeping you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even in sleeping. And there is no bar. In sleeping, in eating, in going to the toilet room, there is no restriction. You can go on, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." You see. That will keep you in your svarūpa, in your real identification, and you'll never be attacked by māyā. Just like if you keep yourself vaccinated and if the period... What is called? Active. Then there is no fear of being infected. That is practical. If you get yourself vaccinated of certain type of infection and you keep yourself active... Just like doctors, they go, treat patients suffering from infectious disease, but they keep themselves always unaffected. They know the remedial measures, antiseptic, prophylactic processes. So this prophylactic antiseptic process is Kṛṣṇa-kīrtanam. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-kīrtanam. That is Lord Caitanya's blessing. Paraṁ vijayate. All glories to the saṅkīrtana, śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana. Kīrtana means Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. Not any other kīrtana. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they introduce so many other kīrtanas. No. Kīrtana means Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... Or any name glorifying the name of the Lord. That is kīrtana. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is especially recommended in this age, and Lord Caitanya personally chanted, so we should follow. Although every name of Kṛṣṇa is as potent as the name Kṛṣṇa... Viṣṇu name, or there are thousands and thousands of names... Nāmnām akāri bahudhā. Bahudhā means there is no counting. Innumerable names. And each name has the same potency like Kṛṣṇa. But this is recommended, especially, those who take advantage. This is one thing.

*And other thing, to take precaution so that māyā may not attack you. You should be cautious also. And therefore we have to follow the four regulative principles: no illicit sex life and no meat*-eating or nonvegetarian diet... We have no quarrel with vegetarian and nonvegetarian. We are after Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. If Kṛṣṇa accepts something beyond these vegetarian dishes, then we can accept also. But Kṛṣṇa says, "No. Give Me patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam [Bg. 9.26]." Kṛṣṇa can eat everything. He is God. But He says that "Give Me this." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. "Offer Me this flower, fruit, water. Like that." So we are after Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. That is our motto. We don't fight with vegetarian and non... We are not making propaganda... Just like there is vegetarian society. No. We have no business. Even if a man becomes vegetarian, what does he gain? In this material world, either vegetarian or nonvegetarian, they are on the same platform, birds of the same feather. You see? So that is not our propaganda. We are introducing Kṛṣṇa-prasāda; *therefore we invite people to take nice prasāda. So these four principles we should follow. We shall not accept anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is our position. And no illicit sex life, no gambling, no intoxication. We are already intoxicated, being haunted by the ghost of māyā. And further intoxication...? Do you think intoxication can be cured by intoxication? No. That is not possible. So these four rules you have to follow. And you keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your life is sublime. Very simple thing. Very simple thing. But it is simple for the simple, but it is very hard for the crooked. Yes. So those who are going to be initiated, they should always remember these restrictive four rules and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa at least sixteen rounds, and eat Bhagavat*-prasādam, Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, and be happy, dance. That's all. Is there any difficulty?

Devotees: No.



*Prabhupāda: (laughter) No difficulty. And people will write, "the bright*-faced." Yes. They have to admit it. Because it is purifying. There is no impurity. Without being pure, how can you expect to reach God? This is all rascaldom. To keep oneself dirty, impure in mind, in body, in feeling, in character, and you want to go to God? Rascal. (laughter) Forget! There is no entrance for you to God.



*yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra*-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair

*vedaiḥ sāṅga*-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ

*dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino

*yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura*-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ



*God's position is that, that the yogis, they are trying to capture God by meditation. And demigods like Brahmā, Lord Śiva and others, they are offering Vedic prayers. And the Sāma Veda is always singing the glories of the Lord. The Lord is so exalted, so pure. So if you have to reach Kṛṣṇa, you must be pure, cent percent pure. And that is not very difficult. This ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you become purified, purified, more, more, more, more. And day will come when you find that you are completely pure from all material contamination and you become eligible to enter into the kingdom of God, and that makes a solution of all problems.



So it is so nice. Always remember this, that "We have taken the best in the whole creation of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Do not try to adulterate it. Keep it pure, and your life will be successful. This is an opportunity, this human form of life, this particular type of tongue which you can use. In other type of tongues you can chew, you can taste the blood and the flesh, and so many things. But you cannot chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But here is a tongue given by God. You can utilize it for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't miss this opportunity. That chewing facility, tasting facility, you'll get even in cat's life, dog's life. But this chanting facility you'll not get. This is in this life, human form of life. So don't misuse it. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa regularly and be happy.

Thank you very much. [break]

namaḥ apavitraḥ pavitraḥ vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gataḥ api vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa abhyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



*(devotees repeat) So mantra means... Namaḥ. Nama means surrender, to become submissive. Namanta eva. Namanta eva. That is the qualification. Namaḥ. When we utter this word namaḥ, means "I surrender." Anyone, I say namaskāra, namaskāra means the surrendering process: "I accept the surrendering process." So when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa or His representative, then apavitraḥ. Apavitraḥ means contaminated and pavitraḥ means purified. So one may be in contaminated stage or purified stage. It doesn't matter. One who... Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam, one who remembers Kṛṣṇa, the lotus*-eyed... Puṇḍarīkākṣam means lotus-eyed Kṛṣṇa. So bahya. Bahya means externally, and abhyantara, internally. Bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified. And another meaning of śuciḥ is brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa means purified. So those who are going to be sacred-threaded today, they should remember that they are being accepted as śuciḥ, as brāhmaṇa. After chanting process for the six months or one year, it is supposed that he has already become purified. Now he should be recognized that he is purified. So this sacred thread means recognition. Sacred thread means one should understand... Just like one understands a man (is) learned by the degrees M.A., B.A., or Ph.D., similarly, when there is sacred thread, it is understood that he has undergone the purificatory process under superior management, or guidance of spiritual master. This is called upanayana, upanayana, in Sanskrit. Upanayana: bringing him more near. The initiation is the beginning of purification, and offering the sacred thread means bringing him more nearer. Therefore the principle is those who are ordinarily initiated, they should not touch the Deity. Only those who are in sacred thread, they should touch. This is the system.



*But Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana is so nice that even without sacred thread, because he is regularly chanting, he is to be supposed to be purified. That is the recommendation given by Jīva Gosvāmī. Anyone who is chanting regularly Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... Śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. Śvādaḥ. Śvā means dog, and adaḥ, adaḥ means eating. Dog-eaters. The dog-eaters are considered to be the lowest of the mankind. But in the Bhāgavata says that śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate. Even if he is dog-eater, but by this process he immediately becomes qualified to offer sacrifice. Savanāya. This fire sacrifice is called savanāya. And Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī gives notes on this line that a person born in the family of a brāhmaṇa awaits the sacred thread ceremony. But one who has become surely (?) purified by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he immediately becomes a highly qualified brāhmaṇa. So don't misuse the opportunity obtained by you. Use it properly, and the life will be successful. So apavitraḥ pavitro vā. In any condition of life, anyone who remembers Kṛṣṇa, Puṇḍarīkākṣam, so both wise-externally and internally*-he becomes purified, śuci. Śuci means pure. And there is a verse written by one Vaiṣṇava in Bengali. Not ordinary. He's Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura. Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura is one of the ācāryas. He has written Caitanya-Bhāgavata. As there is Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, he has written Caitanya-Bhāgavata. Perhaps you have heard the name. So his opinion is, muci haya śuci haya yadi kṛṣṇa bhaje. Muci and śuci, just opposite. Muci means the most nasty cobbler. He eats everything and does all nonsense. He is called muci. Muci means cobbler. In India, when a cow or bull dies, these muci class are called to take away the carcass. So they take it away and they take out the skin and tan it for... This is the original system of shoe-making. And make some shoes and sell in the market. But not by killing cows. When it dies. So this business is done by the muci class. And they take the flesh also. After taking out the skin, the flesh they take. Therefore they are considered very low class, muci. And śuci means brāhmaṇa. So Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura says, muci haya śuci haya. A cobbler, muci, can become a śuci, yadi kṛṣṇa bhaje, if he's Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. If he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, never mind he is a cobbler, he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. Muci haya śuci haya yadi kṛṣṇa bhaje. Śuci haya muci haya yadi kṛṣṇa tyaje. And even if he's born in a brāhmaṇa family, if he gives up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's immediately cobbler. So don't lose this opportunity. Always remember Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) Don't become cobbler. [break]

(leads devotees in prayers for fire sacrifice) Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (all chant japa) [break] (kīrtana) Now this flower has to be... You can offer puṣpāñjali to Guru Mahārāja. Yes. Get some pots. Yes. Get out all these flowers. (end)



680509IN.BOS

Gāyatrī Mantra Initiation

-

Boston, May 9, 1968



*Prabhupāda: "...such things in devotion and love," aśnāmi, "I eat." So one's purpose is served. If Kṛṣṇa accepts something from a person, that is the perfection of life. So there are many things, but today we are observing this ceremony, and the other day we also observed. Six boys were offered this facility of this second initiation stage, and today also, they have come from New York because I'll be going to Montreal, Canada, next week. So they have come and they are... This second process of initiation will be performed as far as possible. Real basic principle is bhakti, devotional service. So far lengthy process, in this age it is not possible. And pāñcarātrika vidhim, just like quoted from Rūpa Gosvāmī, it has made things very simplified. The Vedic vidhi is not possible at the present age. The pāñcarātrika*-vidhim means... Vedic vidhi means one must be begotten by a brāhmaṇa and he must have followed the family tradition. Then, according to Vedic rites, he can be initiated or offered the sacred thread. But pāñcarātrika-vidhi is especially meant for this age, that anyone who has little, a slight tendency to become a devotee, he should be given all chance, all chance. That is Lord..., especially Lord Caitanya's special benediction. And He has actually performed this thing. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He happened to be born in a Muhammadan family, and Lord Caitanya made him the ācārya, nāmācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, nāmācārya, by His grace. This Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī were rejected from brāhmaṇa society because they engaged themselves as ministers in the Muslim government.



*So brāhmaṇa society was so strict that if anyone becomes a servant of, of a mleccha, he at once falls down. There are many such social, I mean to say, injustice. And by that, following such thing, the, practically the Vedic civilization is now demolished practically. There is simply fragmental things are there. But Lord Caitanya's principle is very nice, and Gosvāmīs, they recommended, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. His mission should be preached not only in India but pṛthivīte, means all over the world. Yata, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-all cities and all villages, all countries, sarvatra, everywhere, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be propagated. And He has openly said that anyone-doesn't matter in what, which family or in which country he has taken his birth, anyone-ye kṛṣṇa tattva vettā sei guru haya. Anyone who knows this science of Kṛṣṇa, he's eligible to become a Vaiṣṇava or a spiritual master. And He has also ordered that

*āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra sarva*-deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



"By My order, everyone become the spiritual master, and the only duty of spiritual master is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we are following the same principles and expecting these young boys may preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness mission more, I mean to say, enthusiastically, because I am old man. I may die at any moment. Last year, practically, I was died, but Kṛṣṇa saved me. So tūrṇaṁ yateta. Let us try as quickly as possible before the next death comes. That is the perfectional stage of life. So we shall now begin our ceremony. If any question...? (pause) So we can begin. Any question?

*Student: Is this the ceremony which is often referred to as mantra*-dīkṣā?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Mantra*-dīkṣā. Yes. The first ceremony is hari-nāma-dīkṣā, and then mantra-dīkṣā. Hari-nāma-dīkṣā, all these boys present, they were, one year before, they were initiated for chanting, and now they are being second time initiated by mantra-dīkṣā, yes. Any other questions?



Student: Has there been a fasting or other preparatory...?



Prabhupāda: No. According to Vaiṣṇava tantra, we do not require to fast because we are taking Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. Hare... Just like in Jagannātha Purī, there is no fasting, so long one is accepting Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. The fasting means purificatory, one, one who is taking all nonsense things, at least one day fasting to become purified. But one who is eating simply Kṛṣṇa prasādam and simple foodstuff, vegetable, grains, milk; they are not allowed to eat anything and everything. They are not allowed to take anything in the hotel. So practically, they are fasting. According to the general regulation, they are fasting every day. They are simply accepting Kṛṣṇa prasādam. That is already accepted. And because this ceremony is Vaiṣṇava smṛti, so we do not require particularly to fast.



Student: Do the disciples take on new injunctions and prohibitions at this time? You mentioned that there were four nisidhacara (?) mentioned...



Prabhupāda: No. This...



Student: ...at the earlier stage.



*Prabhupāda: Earlier, earlier stage, the injunctions were... They have already practiced those injunctions. They have already practiced and they now stand firmly situated in those practices and they have chanted. Therefore the second initiation. Just like in the school education*-from one class to another is promotion stage-similarly, it is like that.



Student: Are there any formal rules that they agree to accept at this stage? Over and above the earlier...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Only form is that the mantra which will be given to him, he has to chant that mantra three times a day, morning, early in the morning, and in the noon, and in the evening. Tri*-sandhya. Tri-sandhya means three times, junction of different moments. Morning, day and night, evening, day and night, junction, and the noon, afternoon and before noon. Three times.



Student: Does taking the initiation create a permanent bond between disciple and guru?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is already done. When they were initiated hari*-nāma, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that acceptance of... Tasmāt guruṁ prapadyeta. Just like one has to enter himself into some educational institution for being educated more and more, similarly, one has to first of all accept a bona fide spiritual master. Then he gives him education one after another, one after another. So that initiation means that is the beginning. But that is not the end. There is no end. It will go on. It will go on. This is the second stage only. But the rules and regulations, they have already practiced, and they are doing them.



Student: The first mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that's for, you say, that's to clean the mind of the material contam...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the basic, that is the first principle. Lord Caitanya says, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam: [Cc. Antya 20.12] "By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one becomes cleansed of the dirty things, material contamination."



Student: And this mantra. What's the purpose?



*Prabhupāda: This mantra is secondary. Of course, one who has purified himself by Hare Kṛṣṇa, this mantra is not very important. But, according to the tradition of Vaiṣṇava smṛti, it is offered better, better, to make the position still confirmed and better. But even this mantra is not given, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything is done. This is extraordinary so that... In the other, other feature of this sacred ceremony, is that one may not commit offense at the feet of a Vaiṣṇava by thinking him, "Oh, he's a mleccha, he's a yavana, or he's lower class, he's higher class," like that. Therefore this is offered. No, he's brāhmaṇa. He's brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, still in India, a person born in a brāhmaṇa family, the most wretched condition and most abominable habits, and he claims to be a brāhmaṇa. And a person who is highly elevated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's not accepted. So in order to save one from the injustice, this ceremony is required that it is bona fide. He's a bona fide brāhmaṇa. As it is prescribed and ordered in the Nārada*-pañcarātra or Vaiṣṇava smṛti. So my Guru Mahārāja, His Holiness Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, he introduced this, and we are following. So there is no question. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Follow the principles of a spiritual master who has come down in disciplic succession. That is very nice thing. If you have got a bona fide spiritual master and if you simply follow the instruction, the perfection is guaranteed. Just like a perfect engineer and a neophyte working under his instruction, however foolish he may be, all his work is perfect. Because following the instruction of the qualified man. Therefore it is said,



yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deva tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]



*This is Upaniṣads' injunction. So if anyone who has got implicit faith in the spiritual master and also in God, to him all the imports of Vedic literature becomes revealed, becomes revealed. That is spiritual way of understanding. So, if one has a bona fide spiritual master to guide, then his life is guaranteed to be perfect. This is the way. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo: ** "By the mercy of the spiritual master, one gets immediately the mercy of the Lord." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi: ** "And if one dissatisfies the spiritual master, then he has no other way of perfection." So we have to follow. That's all. It doesn't matter that I'm not qualified. But if I follow the instruction of the superior, then automatically I become qualified. All right, let us go ahead. Oh, it is... Just everyone do like this. (sips water). You can now stop this (tape recorder?). (end)





700220IN.LA

Sannyāsa Initiation

-

Los Angeles, February 20, 1970



Prabhupāda: Anyad āhur... What is the next śloka?



Devotees: (Śrīla Prabhupāda chants with the devotees)



vidyāṁ cāvidyāṁ ca yas

tad vedobhayaṁ saha

avidyayā mṛtyuṁ tīrtvā

vidyayāmṛtam aśnute



andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti

ye 'sambhūtim upāsate

tato bhūya iva te tamo

ya u sambhūtyāṁ ratāḥ



anyad evāhuḥ sambhavād

anyad āhur asambhavāt

iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ

ye nas tad vicacakṣire



*Prabhupāda: So today is a special function day. Some of our advanced students, they're accepting the renounced order of life. First of all, one of our students, Kīrtanānanda Brahmacārī, he was offered when I was in India, Vṛṇdāvana, in Janmāṣṭamī day he was offered this sannyāsa order in the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. Similarly, here we have got also Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. There is no difference between Rādhā-Dāmodara temple and Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temple. So we postponed this to be held on the Janmāṣṭamī day at New Vrindaban, but by some reason we are now postponing to go there, and we have decided to perform this function here. And I am very glad that we are all present. Now, this sannyāsa mantra should be studied very seriously and we shall chant this mantra after the regular function. Especially those who are accepting the sannyāsa order, they should try to understand the import of this important mantra. The import of this important mantra especially is that, as we prohibit several things during ordinary initiation, just like no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling, similarly there are many no's in accepting the sannyāsa order. Especially meat... not meat-eating, mating. And politics. If we remain in the materialistic order of life, then this sannyāsa order will be a facility for cheating. That responsibility you must have. That is the meaning of the sannyāsa order. San, sat-nyās. Renounced order means one has to renounce everything for Kṛṣṇa's sake. So this mantra will be chanted after these formal mantras, apavitraḥ pavitro vā, and then you'll change your dress, and then yajña will take place, then saṅkirtana movement, your business. So you have got all these? Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You all chant. (devotees chant japa) Namo apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā. You know all this or I shall have to repeat? Or you say. (devotees repeat:)



namo apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



Again take. (repeats verse) Again. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (repeats again) Vande 'ham... (recites maṅgalācarana prayers, devotees repeating) Now take your... Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Open your dress. Later on when you come.



Viṣṇujana: The mantra's here on this sheet?



Prabhupāda: No. That's all right. You first of all dress. Why...? For others there is no garland?



Karandhara: Yes. Ārati. Should we have ārati?



Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. Finish ārati. In the meantime, you dress. Take that garland. So I shall give you. Give me that cloth. No, no. That... First of all cloth give me. This cloth I'll deliver you. No, no. This cloth. Yes. This is your cloth?



Viṣṇujana: Shall we put the garlands on now, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Bring it and... No. Garland I shall give later on when you will dress, come out. I will give you. Like this. Yes. Dress yourself and come. Brahmānanda? You come. There shall be no shirt. Open. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. Now you can perform your daily program. Yes. [break]



Dayānanda: Should we offer the garland? (Karandhara leading maṅgalācarana prayers and doing fire sacrifice) (indistinct) upāsitām.



Prabhupāda: You can read the translation.



Dayānanda: Translation: "I shall cross over the insurmountable ocean of darkness of ignorance simply by taking shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Mukunda who gives all kinds of liberations and who is worshiped by many great previous ācāryas." Purport: "There are sixty-four kinds of rendering service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, out of which to accept the uniform dress of a tridaṇḍi sannyāsī is also an important item. One who accepts this order of life, surely by rendering service unto the Supreme Lord becomes eligible to cross over the insurmountable ocean of ignorance. All previous sages used to accept such order of life, and later ācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, adopted this order of life and specifically stressed on this procedure in order to achieve firm conviction in the matter of devotional service. Those who are unalloyed devotees, they add one more staff along with the original three. This extra one is representation of the living entity. There is another sect who are known as ekaṇḍa sect. They misunderstand the purpose of tridaṇḍa and by such deviation, Śivaswami sannyāsīs, who claim to belong to the Viṣṇu Svāmī sect, turn to be impersonalists and follow the footsteps of Śaṅkarācārya, accepting only the ekaṇḍa. Instead of naming themselves out of the 108 names of Vaiṣṇava sannyāsīs, this Śivaswami sect accepts ten names of the sannyāsī, following Śaṅkarācārya. Lord Caitanya, although in terms of the then practice accepted ekaṇḍi (sic) sannyāsa order, but His acceptance of tridaṇḍi sannyāsa is understood. This mantra was first chanted by a learned brāhmaṇa of Avantīpura after being very much disgusted in this materialistic way of life. This happened long, long years ago because it is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam which was composed by Vyāsadeva at least five thousand years ago. So it is to be concluded therefore that this tridaṇḍi sannyāsī order is coming down since a long time. Since a time long, long years ago. And within five hundred years of time, Lord Caitanya adopted this order of life. In the latest years, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda adopted it personally and made many of his disciples tridaṇḍi sannyāsīs. We are also following his footsteps. In the purport of this mantra is that the ekaṇḍi sannyāsī is devoid of parātma niṣṭha, which is explained above. In other words, impersonalists..." On the first page it says, an explanation of parātma is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is given in the English synonyms. So it says, "We are also following his footsteps. And the purport of this mantra is that the ekaṇḍi sannyāsī is devoid of parātma niṣṭha, which is explained above." So that is right, Prabhupāda, that the impersonalist is devoid of the Supreme Personality of Godhead?



Prabhupāda: They have no idea. They say that we can imagine an idea. According to impersonalists, they say sādhakānām hitārthaya brahmaṇo rūpa kalpanaḥ. Because we cannot concentrate our mind in impersonal therefore they say, "Imagine some form." They think that Kṛṣṇa is imagination. Yes. (laughter) That is their Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa was personally present and He killed all the demons. Still, these demons says imagination. That is demonic. Therefore we do not agree with them.



*Dayānanda: "In other words, impersonalists cannot have any faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and they prefer to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence. In the Śrīmad*-Bhagavatam we do not find any mention of ekaṇḍa sannyāsa. This tridaṇḍa sannyāsa is accepted therefore as standard. Lord Caitanya accepts Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the supreme authority. Under these circumstances, persons who accept Lord Caitanya as ekaṇḍi sannyāsī are mistaken. So following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya still the tridaṇḍi sannyāsīs are in existence. Keeping the sacred thread and śikhā intact, distinct from the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, Māyāvādī ekaṇḍi sannyāsīs, who give up the sacred thread and śikhā. They have no inclination to render service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Being very much disgusted by the materialistic way of life, they do not understand the purpose of the sannyāsa order. But those who are strictly followers of the Vaiṣṇava principles, they do not accept the Māyāvādī way of sannyāsa. In the sect of Lord Caitanya, the most venerable learned scholar known as Gadādhara Paṇḍita Gosvāmī accepted this tridaṇḍi sannyāsa order and he offered this facility to his disciple known as Śrī Madhva-upādhyāya. This Madhvācārya is the origin of the Vallabhācārya sect. One of the Six Gosvāmīs, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, who is the authority of Vaiṣṇava regulations, was initiated by another tridaṇḍi sannyāsī known as Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. Therefore this sannyāsī order is completely in pursuance of Vaiṣṇava authority."



Prabhupāda: So that daṇḍa you can take. Your daṇḍa take. You can take, come on. His name is there? No.



Devotee: No.



Viṣṇujana: You know which one is which?



Prabhupāda: No. According to the size we have made. So which size he is I do not know. I... That's your?



Viṣṇujana: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: That's your. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Dance. (break*-prema-dhvani) So, this is now formal accepting of sannyāsa, but real sannyāsa purpose will be fulfilled when you'll be able to induce the people of the world dancing like you. That is real sannyāsa. This formal dress is not sannyāsa. Real sannyāsa is when you can induce other people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and they dance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: If you can turn one man to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your going back to Godhead, back to home, guaranteed. That is real purpose of sannyāsa.



Thank you very much. (end)



700622IN.LA

*Initiation of Mṛga*-netrī Dāsī

-

Los Angeles, June 22, 1970



*Prabhupāda: Your name is Mṛga*-netrī. Mṛga-netrī. Mṛga-netrī means staring eyes like she-deer. When Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī used to pass through the forest of Vṛndāvana, these deers and stags, they were looking with staring eyes-"When Kṛṣṇa will pass this way?" These animals were also attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The birds, everyone, the flowers, the fruits, everyone engage... Vṛndāvana means everything engaged in Kṛṣṇa. So if all of you similarly engage yourself always in Kṛṣṇa's service, this is Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana is not that... As Kṛṣṇa is not located... He is located, but by His inconceivable potency He can simultaneously become located and distributed. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. He is always in Goloka Vṛndāvana, but still, He is everywhere. That is God's omnipotency. We say that God is omnipotent, but we do not know what does it mean. The omnipotency means simultaneously to do or to act or to remain everywhere. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa... You may not think that "Kṛṣṇa is (in) Goloka Vṛndāvana. Here is an idol of Kṛṣṇa." No. He is Kṛṣṇa. Just like the electricity is distributed, but in the plug there is also electricity, similarly, Kṛṣṇa... That is Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable potency. He can remain in everyone's heart, He can remain everywhere. Just imagine. Everywhere He is. Goloka eva. But His location is Goloka Vṛndāvana, but still, He is everywhere.



*So try to see Kṛṣṇa with that staring eyes-"Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Here is... Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg. 18.61]. He is within the atom. He is everywhere. So by service, we can realize. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. If we want to see Kṛṣṇa, touch Kṛṣṇa, with our, these material senses, it is not possible. The senses are to be purified. How it is purified? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. The service. And wherefrom the service begins? The service begins jihvādau, from the tongue. The service begins from the tongue. You chant. Therefore we are giving you the beads to chant. That is the beginning of service, chanting. If you chant, then svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. By hearing Kṛṣṇa's name, you will understand Kṛṣṇa's form, you will understand Kṛṣṇa's quality, you will understand Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, His omnipotency. Everything will be revealed. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Svayam means the Kṛṣṇa science becomes revealed. You cannot make research to understand Kṛṣṇa science with these material senses. You have to purify your senses, sevonmukhe, by service. Tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When you engage your senses in Kṛṣṇa's service, then it becomes purified. Hṛṣīkeṇa. That purified, your senses is not to be abolished like the impersonalists: "No more sense, finished." No. We... Our senses are... Because we are eternal, our senses are eternal. But at the present moment our senses are being used, contaminated; *therefore you are not satisfied. The senses are not to be cut off. No. Liberation does not mean I become impersonal, all my senses are gone. No. Liberation means purification of the senses. And the symptom how the senses are purified, that will be manifested that when one's senses are simply engaged in the service of the Lord. Hands, legs, eyes, ears, mouth*-we have got so many senses-everything. Hṛṣīkeṇa-hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Actually the proprietor of the senses is Kṛṣṇa. We have got this hand, but it is given to us. Actually it is the hand of Kṛṣṇa. He is all-pervading. Sarvato 'pāṇi pādas tat: "Everywhere, His hands and legs are there." You will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. So therefore these hands and legs which we have got, this is Kṛṣṇa's hands and legs. So when these Kṛṣṇa's hands and legs will be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, that is the perfection. That is the perfection. If our, our senses... Just like used to... We like to use our senses for own satisfaction, similarly... But actually the senses are not ours; *it is Kṛṣṇa's. Hṛṣīkeṇa*-hṛṣīkeśa. Therefore Arjuna addressed Kṛṣṇa in the battlefield, "Hṛṣīkeśa." Hṛṣīkeśa. The significance of this word is, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are Hṛṣīkeśa. You are sitting in my heart, and You are the master of my senses. So I personally cannot understand what is the benefit of this fighting, but You give me direction and use my senses as You like. That's all." He was not inclined to fight, but he surrendered his senses and mind, everything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So sevonmukhe jihvādau. Jihvā. Jihvā means the tongue. The tongue has got two business: to articulate, vibrate, and to taste, taste Kṛṣṇa*-prasādam, and articulate, chant, vibrate Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then as soon as your tongue is controlled, become purified, all other senses becomes automatically purified. Tongue is the greatest enemy. If you cannot control your tongue, then you cannot control your other senses. And therefore we prohibit, "Not these..." They are all concerned to the tongue: intoxication-tongue; *and meat*-eating-tongue. So, intoxicant... Tongue dictates, "Oh, my tongue is becoming dry. Let me drink something or smoke something." So if you can control, if you become controller of your tongue-"No"-then you become swāmī or goswāmī. That means the senses do not become your master. You become the master of your senses. Then perfection, gosvāmī. That is... Go means senses; svāmī means master. So svāmī or gosvāmī, the same thing. So we have to become the master of our senses. That we can become only... Ourself, we cannot control our senses. If we engage our senses in the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, then automatically it becomes controlled and purified. Then our life is successful.

Thank you very much. Now...



Pradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Could there be a name for their child? That little girl, Angie.



Prabhupāda: Oh, where is your daughter? She is not here?



Pradyumna: No, she is not feeling well.



*Prabhupāda: All right. She may be named as Anaṅga, Anaṅga*-mañjarī. That's a name of one of the assistant gopīs. Yes. So your daughter is fortunate. She is getting association of these devotees from childhood. So give her protection and raise her nicely. She is becoming attracted to the Vaiṣṇavas, to Kṛṣṇa. This is the opportunity, to get nice father and mother and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yes. So that is the duty of the father and mother, parents, to raise the children to complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then she will no more have to come back in the womb of any other mother. This is the... This finishes. That is the duty of father and mother. Father and mother should think that "This child will no more come in any other womb. I shall train him or her in such a way." That is the duty. That is the duty of spiritual master, that is the duty of parents, that is the duty of state. But it is Kali-yuga; everything is different. So somehow or other, so she should be taken care of. And as you train, so she becomes trained. That's all. (pause) Oh. (chuckles) Something...



Pradyumna: I have the list.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You can explain the offenses.



Pradyumna: Oh, yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is essential. Don't keep in the paper, but try to follow. All right. Go on. Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (devotees chant japa) Formerly, the brāhmaṇas used to ignite fire by mantra. Yes. They did not use another fire. The mantra will ignite fire. In the Vedic age this was being done. Aruṇi. The sacrifice means to sacrifice one animal in the fire end give it again a new life. That was a test for the Vedic mantra, how one has chanted. It is not sacrifice, means killing. The animal sacrifice mentioned in the *Vedas* were not for killing. It was experiment of the Vedic mantra. They would sacrifice an animal and again it will be given new life, rejuvenation. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to Chand Kazi that "Because in this age the brāhmaṇas are not so powerful, therefore sacrifice is prohibited. Only this sacrifice: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21], this is..." [break] (japa) That's all right. Don't put any more. Yes. Put little ghee. Little ghee. That's all right. (japa) Let it burn. Then, later on... You can chant mantra.



Dayānanda: Vande... (end)





700703IN.LA

Initiation: Śrī Raṅga, Romaharṣaṇa, Śrīdhara Dāsās

-

Los Angeles, July 3, 1970



Prabhupāda: Ten kinds of offenses, they are mentioned in the paper. You should avoid, and follow the regulative principles. Just like if you ignite fire, if the wood is dry, then the fire very quickly takes place. And if it is moist, wet, then it takes time. So, so avoiding these ten kinds of offenses and following the rules and regulation will quickly ignite the fire of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is powerful, even one is contaminated, but it will accelerate if you follow the rules and regulations and avoid the offenses. Therefore... So what are these ten kind of offenses? What is the first, first offense?



Devotee: Blaspheming the Lord's devotee?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are engaged in preaching the glories of the Lord, they should never be defamed. That is the greatest offense. Then next?



Devotee: Considering the Lord and the demigods on the same level.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are impersonalists, they think that "After all, the Absolute Truth is void or impersonal. So we can imagine any form." The Māyāvādī philosopher says, sādhakānām hitarthaya brahmaṇo rūpaḥ kalpanaḥ. "Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, He is formless, but because we cannot concentrate our mind in the formless, therefore let us imagine any form we like, and that will make me advance." This is not the philosophy. The Absolute Truth, Supreme Personality of Godhead, He has His form and He is not equal, nobody is equal to Him. So according to Vedic literature, you cannot put Viṣṇu*-tattva even on the equal footing with Brahmā and Śiva. His position, Viṣṇu-tattva, is mahato mahīyān. He's the greatest of the greatest. So this is offense. There are many Māyāvādī philosophers, they say "You can chant any name, either Kṛṣṇa or Kali or Durgā or..." And another mission says, "Any nonsense name you can chant. That doesn't matter." But our Vedic śāstra, scripture, does not say that. It is said, harer nāma. Not any other name. Harer nāma. only the name of Hari. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. To hear and chant about whom? Viṣṇu. It is clearly stated there. So we have to chant Viṣṇu name, we have to chant Harer name, Hari and Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. They're the same. So this is my... You should not misguide yourself by thinking that "Any name will do." No. This



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



Then what is the next? Guror avajñā?



Devotee: Neglecting the order of the spiritual master.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We are daily singing, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasāda. By pleasing the spiritual master we please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore if His order is disobeyed, if he is displeased, then yasyāprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If he is displeased, then he has no shelter. He's thrown in the wilderness. Therefore this should be strictly followed. Then next?



Devotee: Minimizing the authority of the scripture or...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Scriptural injunction we should not minimize. We should not think contradictory. We should accept as it is. Then it will be good for us. Or interpretation. Scriptural interpretation is not required. Therefore, we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, without any false interpretation. As it is. Kṛṣṇa-Kṛṣṇa. Kurukṣetra-Kurukṣetra. Pāṇḍava-Pāṇḍava. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā [Bg. 1.1]. Kṛṣṇa uvāca. Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān uvāca: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said." And we should not add here that... What is called? Paramātmā uvāca. No. Kṛṣṇa uvāca. Paramātmā is feature. In the Gītā Press edition you will see "Paramātmā." They never say Kṛṣṇa. They're so much afraid that "If I say 'Kṛṣṇa,' He will at once capture me." You see? (chuckles) So in a different way. "Paraṁ Brahman," "Caitanya," like this, so many impersonal ways they will say. But that is not required. Bhagavān uvāca means Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes they say, "Blessed Lord said." No. Why you say? The Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa said. Then, what is that next? No interpretation of the scripture. Next? What is the next item?



Devotee: Committing sin on the strength of chanting.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. On the strength of chanting, committing sin. Because as Dayānanda explained to you, that this is a purificatory process. So if we think that "We are chanting. It is... I am being purified, so let me become contaminated by acting some sinful activities. I'll purify by chanting," this motive is very bad. This is the greatest offense. Once purified, that's all right, but don't commit again sinful. Sinful life should be stopped. From this day of initiation these four pillars of sinful life-illicit sex life, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling*-they should be broken. Not that "Let me do it. I have go the mantra machine, instrument for counteracting." No. You should not..., no more commit any sinful activities. Once you are purified, no more. Then, what is that?



Devotee: Instructing the glories of the Lord's name to the...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We (are) therefore cautious. Unless one is recommended by the president... If he is eager, he is, I mean to say, accept brāhmaṇa, then we see that how he is attending our classes, how he is becoming little interested. Then we offer this first initiation. Otherwise, if we see that he is unmindful, then we should not canvass. Let him come. Just like Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just surrender unto Me." He's saying. Not that by force making him surrender. That kind of surrender will not stand. We should not canvass. Let him become attracted by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and he personally asks for harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, bhakativinoda prabhu-caraṇe paḍiyā. As soon as Lord Caitanya says that "I have brought this medicine for killing māyā." Hari-nāma mahā-mantra loilo. "Everyone can take from Me this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." So bhakativinoda prabhu-caraṇe paḍiyā. The Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura immediately fell down on the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya and begged, "Please give me." So this, this should, the chance should be given like that. One should beg. Not that canvassing. No. That is not required. That is another offense. Unless one has increased little taste and he's personally eager to accept this chanting process, we should not canvass. That is not our... That is an offense. Then?



Devotee: Comparing the holy name with material piety.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole thing is purification. Material contamination means desire to enjoy this material world. That is contamination. We have nothing to do with this material world. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ. You are spirit. Unfortunately, we are put into this association. So that is another chapter. But now we are trying to come out of it. So at the same time I am trying to go back to home, back to Godhead, at the same time, desiring some material sense gratification, this is another offense. This should not be... We should try to forget. We shall try to forget, "No more I'll... No. There is no necessity of my materialness enjoyment." That sort of vow, determination, must be there. Then what is next?



Devotee: Becoming inattentive while chanting the holy name.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. While you (are) chanting, you should hear also. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. You should hear at the same time. Then the mind and the senses are compact. That is samādhi. That is perfection of yoga. This yoga is recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. So everyone, while chanting, he should hear. All right. So what is your name?



Kevin: Kevin.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotees: Kevin.



Prabhupāda: Kevin. Oh. So your spiritual name, Śrī Raṅga. Śrī Raṅga. Śrī Raṅganātha is Viṣṇu. (It) is a very big temple in South India. Then, what is the name?



Robert: Robert.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Romaharṣaṇa. Romaharṣaṇa was a great learned scholar for explaining Vedic literature. But once upon a time he committed some offense. In a great meeting he was speaking about Vedic hymns, and Balarāma, He entered that sacrificial arena. So all the sages and brāhmaṇas and everyone stood up. This Romaharṣaṇa did not. So Balarāma punished him, killed him. But although he was killed, but he got salvation and he was recognized. But, he... It was an example that we should be always very careful about offering respects to the Supreme Lord. He was sitting on the vyāsāsana. Vyāsāsana, one who is sitting on the vyāsāsana, if somebody comes, he does not require to offer respect. That is the rule. But that is not applicable when God enters. No. (laughter) That was his offense. So exemplary. He was killed not with any weapon. One straw. He was immediately... Balarāma had some straw. So all the sages said that "Sir, we allowed him to sit on the vyāsāsana, and he was speaking. Now what is to be done? He's killed." So then Balarāma said, "All right. If you want, I can make him immediately alive." So they also considered that "If we say that 'Make him alive,' then... Balarāma's decision was to kill him. Then we overrule Him." Just see how the behavior. Then the saints and sages said, "No, Sir. We do not want. Whatever You have done, that is all right. But You do something, that we blessed this man for long life to speak. Now he is dead. So our version is also nullified. But we want that our version may not be nullified and Your action may not be nullified. You do something like that." (laughter) So then Balarāma said, "All right. You bring his son. I shall empower him and he shall be a great speaker on this Vedic literature." And because his son means he himself... Ātmaiva jayate putra. Son is born, there is no... The father and son there is no distinction. Just like in Bible sometimes it is said the son of God and God is one. That's a fact, because son is expansion of the body of the father. So Romaharṣaṇa's son was Sūta Gosvāmī. This Sūta Gosvāmī's name you have heard. He is speaking *Bhāgavatam*. So Sūta Gosvāmī was blessed by Balarāma that "You, on behalf of your father..." So their version and Balarāma's action was mitigated in this way. All right. Come one. So you be careful. Huh? Don't be like Romaharṣaṇa. You take the advantage, but don't make, commit mistake like Romaharṣaṇa. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then what is your name?



John: John.



Prabhupāda: So you name is Śrīdhara. Śrīdhara is another name of Lord Viṣṇu. Come on. Śrīdhara dāsa..., brahmacārī? You are brahmacārī? All right. Jaya. You know the mantra? What is that mantra?



Śrīdhara: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda: No, not...



Śrīdhara: ...Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



Prabhupāda: No, this offering obeisances to the spiritual master. He knows it? Come on. What is your name?



Charles: Chuck.



Prabhupāda: John. Śrīdhara? He is John.



Charles: Charles.



Prabhupāda: Oh, Charles. Your name is Gopāla dāsa. Come on. Govinda jaya gopāla jaya jaya. So what are the restrictions?



Gopāla: No meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex connection.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Gopāla: No gambling or speculating, and no intoxicants.



*Prabhupāda: So it will be possible? (laughter) Yes. For your country this is very, I mean, a big stricture, but one has to perform it, execute it for Kṛṣṇa's sake. Kṛṣṇas te bhoga*-tyāga (?). For Kṛṣṇa's sake we can do anything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Although it is very difficult for boys and girls in this country, but because they are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should sacrifice their propensities for Kṛṣṇa's sake. That is a vow. That is an austerity. So Kṛṣṇa will be very much satisfied that "This boy, this girl has done so much. All right. Accept him." So strictly follow these rules and regulations. So every one of you know these regulative principles? Yes. Then you perform your yajña. [break] ...kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. (end)





710702IN.LA

Initiation Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, July 2, 1971



Prabhupāda: ...interested in material profit by devotional service, he is not fit at all to enter into the devotional service. There are... Everyone is trying to become happier, the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, devotees, because in the material world there is no happiness. So the karmīs are trying to be happier to increase their sense gratification. So one man has got hundred dollars income. He is trying to be happy, more happy, by increasing the income to a thousand dollars, because his sense gratification is not sufficient in one hundred dollars. He wants thousand dollars. So if one takes to devotional service, but, "My income is hundred dollars. Kṛṣṇa, give me thousand dollars," so this is not pure devotion. Kṛṣṇa can give. Why thousand? Millions of dollars He can give. But anyone who asks from Kṛṣṇa for this material benefit, he is not a pure devotee. And unless one is pure devotee, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. By devotional service, if you want material prosperity, Kṛṣṇa can give you. Kṛṣṇa can... Whatever you want, Kṛṣṇa can give you. But that is not pure devotion. Dhruva Mahārāja went to obtain his father's kingdom in the beginning, but at the end he said that "I don't want." That is the benefit. If anyone has got any desire for material benefit and takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa can give him, but the benefit is that one day he'll come to the stage he'll ask nothing from the Lord. Whereas, if anyone goes to demigods to ask some material profit, he will get, but it will be finished, and he'll never come to the stage of transcendental platform, that he has no material necessities.



*So similarly, Kṛṣṇa's name, we should not try to exact some material profit by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is not pure devotion. Sarva... What is called? Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. We shall simply aspire to serve Kṛṣṇa. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means, "He Kṛṣṇa, my Lord Kṛṣṇa." He, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare, "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is the sum total meaning of this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Simply praying, "Please engage me," that is real profit. Not that "Please give me, instead of hundred dollars, give me thousand dollars." No. This is not pure devotion. You should all understand this. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Completely freed from any material desire. That is pure devotion. That will make you happy. Go on. Go on with... You are finished?

Dayānanda: There's still one.



Prabhupāda: All right. Yes. (japa) What is your name?



Girl: Jean Pickman.



Prabhupāda: Your name is Śivani, wife of Lord Śiva. Who is this? Nicely wove it and sewn it. What is your name?



Boy: Jeffrey Seeler. (?)



Viṣṇujana: Gaṅgārāma.



Prabhupāda: Gaṅgārāma. Gaṅgārāma was a devotee of Lord Caitanya. Go on. Who's next?



Devotee: Suraci devī. Suraci.



Prabhupāda: Huh? Suruci. Suruci was one of the mothers of Dhruva Mahārāja. Take it. You know what are the rules and regulations? What is that?



*Suruci: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: All right. (end)





710705IN.LA

Initiation Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, July 5, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So your spiritual name is Rāma*-rañjana. Rāma-rañjana. Rāma... One who pleases Lord Rāma, Rāmarañjana. So by your activities you have to please Lord Rāmacandra. Yes. What was the business of Rāmacandra? To kill Rāvaṇas. (laughter) To kill all the atheists. That was the Rāmacandra's business, to kill Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa was a very powerful atheist, and he was working with the ten heads. Just like materialistic karmīs, they work very hard, and they have got good brain also for wording hard. So Rāvaṇa had ten heads. But the plan was to cheat Rāma. With all intelligence, with all brain, his only plan was how to cheat Rāma. That was his... He became a sannyāsī and he went to take some alms from Sītā. The purpose was to cheat, to enter. Because according to Vedic civilization, a sannyāsī has open door. He can even go inside. But that... He was the only sannyāsī at that time who tried to cheat. But this kind of sannyāsī or this kind of intelligent persons are killed by Rāma. They may make plan very nice to cheat Rāmacandra, but ultimately they become vanquished with all their planning commission.



*So you have to please Rāmacandra in that way, to kill all these cheaters, Rāvaṇas*-those in the form of sannyāsī, in the form of priest, or religionist, (who) are trying to cheat the Lord. Their only business is, "There is no God. God is impersonal. God is void"-some way or other to say there is no God. All these propositions, "God is void," "God is impersonal," means indirectly to say there is no God. So this is Rāvaṇa's policy. And in order to please Rāmacandra, oh, we have to kill this atheist class of men who try to cheat Rāmacandra and take away His Lakṣmī, Sītā, the goddess of fortune... The materialistic persons, they are trying simply to accumulate wealth, and so they come to Rāmacandra. They want money. That is Sītā. Money is goddess of fortune. So the materialistic persons, their policy is to take, earn money like anything, and employ it in sense gratification. That is their policy. But our policy is to take away the money from the atheist and employ it to the service of Rāmacandra. Just like Hanumān. Hanumān was fighting not for his personal. He was trying to recover Sītā from the hands of Rāvaṇa to bring her again to the side of Rāmacandra. That was his policy. So devotee's policy should be that "These atheists, materialists, karmīs, they have taken Sītā, all the goddess of fortune, money, for their sense gratification, and we, following the footstep of Hanumān, the great devotee, Vajrāṅgajī, we have to fight with this atheist class of men, and snatch from him Sītā and place her again on the side of Rāmacandra." So we may make plan. As they are making plan to take away all the money, we have to also make plan to take the money from the Rāvaṇa and employ it for Kṛṣṇa. Of course, we are not going to cheat them, but our policy is pacifying him, that "Your money is not... Whatever you are thinking, your money, it is not your money. It is God's money, Kṛṣṇa's money. If you kindly spare for Kṛṣṇa's service, then your life will be successful. Otherwise, you will be killed like Rāvaṇa." This message we can convey to all the Rāvaṇas. So Rāmarañjana means find out the ways and means how to please Rāmacandra and how to vanquish the Rāvaṇas. That's all.

Thank you. (end)



710713IN.LA

Initiation Lecture

-

Los Angeles, July 13, 1971



Dayānanda: "... so blaspheming the Lord's devotee. The only way one can be forgiven of this highest offense is by a pure devotee of the Lord. So considering the Lord and the demigods on the same level or..."



Prabhupāda: In the śāstra it is said that if you commit some offense to Kṛṣṇa, He excuses, but if you commit offense to His devotee, He never excuses. Personal offense to Kṛṣṇa can be excused by Kṛṣṇa. He is so merciful. The Durvāsā Muni, he offended Mahārāja Ambarīṣa and he went up... He was so powerful that he went to Viṣṇuloka to see Viṣṇu for being protected because the sudarśana cakra was after him. So Viṣṇu said, "Oh, this is beyond My power. I cannot excuse you. You have to go to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja and ask his pardon. Otherwise there is no excuse." So that Durvāsā Muni, he was a great yogi and brāhmaṇa, and he was very proud, so he came back and fell down on the feet of Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. Then he was excused. You see? Ambarīṣa Mahārāja was a kṣatriya, a king. He was neither yogi, but he was a great devotee. So this yogi, Durvāsā Muni, he wanted to supersede him, that "He is ordinary kṣatriya king, and because he is advertised that he is a devotee, I shall teach him some lesson." So that was the quarrel between the... The king was very nice, he never picked up quarrel, but this old man picked up quarrel and he was chastised by Viṣṇu like that. Yes. Go on.



Dayānanda: "...considering the Lord and the demigods on the same level or to understand that there are many Gods. There is only one God..."



*Prabhupāda: This is a misconception that especially in your country, in the Western countries, it is advertised that the Hindus have many Gods. We are not concerned with the Hindu*-Muslim; *we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa. So actually in the Vedas accepted one God. Eka brahma dvitīya nāsti. There is no second. God cannot be two. God is one. It is a misconception, there are many Gods. There are Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "You worship any demigod. It is the same thing." They misinterpret the Bhagavad*-gītā śloka, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante: [Bg. 4.11]. "You can worship Me in any way." The Māyāvādī philosophers, there is a great missionary activities in India. They have got their branch here also. They propagate that "You may worship any demigod, goddess Kali or this or that. Everything is all right." No. God is one, and that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān [SB 1.3.28]. Even incarnation of God, they are part and parcel. They are bigger part. Just like we are, living entities, we are also part and parcel, Viṣṇu-tattva, they are also part and parcel, but nobody can excel Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That is the verdict. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. There are so many evidences, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. And Kṛṣṇa Himself says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nāsti: "There is no more superior than Me," in the Bhagavad-gītā. So God is one, and that is Kṛṣṇa. Go on.



Dayānanda: "Neglecting the orders of the spiritual master." At first we must accept a spiritual master and then we must become initiated by the spiritual master. So to neglect the orders of...



*Prabhupāda: Unless one is prepared that "I am accepting somebody as my spiritual master. I must accept whatever he says," if there is any doubt, that "I cannot accept his words verbatim," then one should not accept him as spiritual master. That is hypocrisy. One must be first of all convinced. Therefore it is the duty of the spiritual master and the disciple to associate-that is the injunction of Sanātana Gosvāmī*-for some time, and both of them should study. The disciple should study, "Whether I can accept this saintly person as my spiritual master." And spiritual master also will see, "Whether I can accept this boy, this person, as my disciple." That is the way. But sometimes the time is reduced. That doesn't matter. But the principle is this, that before accepting a spiritual master you can examine him, you can scrutinize him, but not after him, after accepting. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa just like friend, on equal level. But when he saw that the solution is not yet done, then he surrendered unto Him. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. So after accepting as spiritual master there was no talking on the equal level. But the point where he could not understand, he put some question. Just like when He was preaching, teaching him about the yoga system, so the yoga system is controlling the mind. So Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna flatly said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is very difficult for me." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham: [Bg. 6.34] "Oh, it is not possible. You are teaching me this haṭha-yoga system by exercising, controlling mind. It is not possible for me." So that was not an important thing, to practice yoga. One who practices this Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga... Then Kṛṣṇa assured him, "It doesn't matter. You practice. If you like, you can practice. But real yogi is he..." He explained,



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo...

[Bg. 6.47]



*"Arjuna, that's all right. If you cannot practice this yoga system, there is no harm. But the first*-class yogi is he who is always keeping Me in his heart," thinking of Kṛṣṇa. He is first class. So that is bhakti. Go on.



Dayānanda: "Interpreting... Minimizing the authority of scriptures or *Vedas*." The authority of scriptures or *Vedas* are also absolute. This is the literary incarnation of the Lord. The *Vedas* or the scriptures are literary incarnation of the Lord.



Prabhupāda: The example is the same, just like the conchshell. In the Vedic injunction is that you should not touch dead animal's bone. If you touch, you become impure. But *Vedas* say the conchshell is pure. So that is being practically observed. We followers of Vedic injunction, we are using conchshell in the Deity room because *Vedas* says it is pure. You cannot argue, "Oh, one place you said that conch..., the bone is impure. Oh, here I can show you the book. You have said like that." Oh, that nonsense will not do. Whatever is said is all right. You have to accept that. Even it is contradictory, you have to accept. That is called no interpretation. That is wanted. There is meaning, but through your brain at the present moment you cannot understand. That is another thing. But you cannot say like that: "Oh, one place you have said this conch, yes, bone of an animal is impure, and now you are saying the conchshell is pure. It is contradictory." So that will not do. Therefore it is said you cannot interpret in that way. That is offense. Then you will not be able to make progress. Yes. Yes.



*Dayānanda: The next is demons are for killing, but in this age ninety*-nine percent of the population are demons, so it is not possible...



Prabhupāda: If you kill them, then there will be no population. (laughter) There will be nobody to pay tax. Yes. Go on.



Dayānanda: So as much as possible, let us try to instruct the innocent and... [break]



*Prabhupāda: Actual aim of spiritual life*-to come to the stage of loving God. That is real spiritual life. If one wants to take to spiritual life for some other gain, that is not. That is offense, that "I will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So my income is now one thousand dollar. It will be three thousand dollar." Not like that. It may be reduced (laughter) sometime. (laughs) Just like our Dayānanda is... His income is now reduced by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but he is not giving up. That is wanted. You see? Sometimes it is found that in incidents you will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, yasyānugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad... Therefore sometimes people do not come to worship because generally they say, "The Viṣṇu worship, or Vaiṣṇavas, they are generally poor. So I don't want to be poor." Yes. I was thinking like that. (laughter) When my Guru Mahārāja ordered me... When I was manager in Bose's laboratory, so he ordered me. So I thought, "Oh, I cannot do this. I cannot accept this sannyāsa." But he was so kind, and he is so kind still. Then he forced me, that "You must do it," taking, pulling my ear, he brought me to this line. In the beginning I was not willing. So it is his causeless mercy upon me. That I can understand now. I can understand now how much I have been relieved by accepting this life. So sometimes we find that our income is reduced.



*There is a story-that's very interesting*-that one doctor, medical man, came to a gentleman's house, and there were two patients, the lady, the wife of that gentleman, and the maidservant. So the doctor examined and informed to the proprietor that "Your wife's fever is only 100. That's not very... But your maidservant's fever is 104. So she has to be taken little care of." So when the wife heard... [break] So we want like that. This material civilization is like that, to increase the temperature to 108 and then atom bomb fall. You see? That is going on. We should not. Yāvad artha-prayojanam. We should not try for increasing simply the material comforts. No. That is not our business. That is 108 degree, then death. But yāvad artha-vinirṇayam. As far as we want, we must take, that much, not more than that. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1], the same verse. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever prasādam you are offered by the grace of the Lord, you accept. Don't take anything more. That is our motto. Go on.

Dayānanda: "To become inattentive while chanting the holy name." One must remain attentive.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very important. When you will chant, you'll hear also. Then your attention will be there. And you are chanting and you are thinking something else, oh, that is also another offense. You should be careful. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. If you cannot hear, then you will chant loudly, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So you must hear. That is wanted. Otherwise you will be inattentive. That is offense. Go on.



Dayānanda: "Attachment to material things in spite of chanting the holy name."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That attachment means by chanting holy name we have to decrease the fever. But if we increase the fever, attachment... Material attachment means increasing the fever. And we are trying to detach from the, because our conditioned life is continuing because we are so much attached to the materialistic way of life. So by the by, as we chant, we shall try ourself. That means simple life. Unnecessarily we should not increase our demands of life. Then it will be nice. Go on. Finish.



Dayānanda: (devotees repeating) Vande aham... [break]



*Prabhupāda: So Dr. Rao, your spiritual name is Rāmānanda. Yes. This Rāmānanda, he was also Rāya, Rāmānanda Rāya, a great devotee of Lord Caitanya and governor of Madras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up a very important persons, the Six Gosvāmīs, Rāmānanda Rāya, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, like that, eight or ten direct disciples. And later on, they preached the whole thing. In the Bhagavad*-gītā there is a verse, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha itaras tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21]. If a śreṣṭha, if an important man, acts in some way, others follow. That is natural. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya we are meeting and you have got great responsibility, because you came here to take your doctorate degree. That's very nice. When one of my Godbrothers went to England during my Guru Mahārāja's time, so Lady Wellington, she challenged that Godbrother that "Your men from India, they come here, and we give them some degree, and they become big men there. So what you have got to teach us?" That was her challenge. Actually, that has become the mentality of Indians at the present moment, that "One has to go to the foreign countries, take some technological degree, and them impart the knowledge in India. Then we become big... And let us sacrifice our own culture." That is the mentality now. So your example... You have got by the grace of Lord some foreign degrees. If you present this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in India, many persons will follow. So you think in that way and try to understand our philosophy. You are very nice boy. And India's condition is not very satisfactory at the present moment. They are misled. So I came here with that purpose also, that "This movement I cannot start. They will not accept. But if I go to America, if the Americans accept and they preach, then they will be accepted." So that position has somehow or other come, so you together... It is not meant for either for American or Indian; *it is meant for the whole human society. They are suffering grievously for want of this consciousness. So every one of us has got a great duty to broadcast this knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhagavad*-gītā... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on Bhagavad-gītā. It is very widely read all over the world. Simply the rascals, they have misinterpreted. Now we have to give the right interpretation and present what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our duty. So I know that you'll soon return to India, so Lord Caitanya and Lord Kṛṣṇa is giving you a great responsibility. Try to serve them to your best capacity. Thank you. So this is your beads? Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*So next, what is your name? Georgina. So your spiritual name is Gunamayī. Gunamayī... Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. Guṇamayī is the name of the energy of Lord. Woman is the energy of man. Similarly, we are all energies. A man works very hard, being energized by his wife or mother. That is the history of the whole world. Any big man, behind that big man is a woman, either mother or wife, especially. You have heard the name of Vidya*-sagara Pandit. The background was his mother. Gandhi, the background was his mother. Now, this Lord Wellington, the background was his wife. So woman has got a very responsible duty, to energize man with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you are young girl. I am very happy that you have come to this. Try to execute this energy. That will be your duty. You know what are the restrictions?

*Guṇamayī: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no... (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. So take your... So what is your name? [break] I asked this, what is your name? Georgina? No, now what is your spiritual name? Immediately forgot? (laughter) Guṇamayī. Guṇamayī. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Guṇamayī means qualities, full of qualities. So this material nature is, has got three qualities, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. This is also guṇamayī. And the spiritual nature also has got three qualities-sandhinī, saṁvit, and... What is called, other?



Devotee: Hlādinī.



*Prabhupāda: Ahlādinī, yes. Sandhinī, saṁvit, and ahlādinī. So both of them are guṇamayī. The spiritual nature is horrible for the conditioned soul, but she is not horrible for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. So everyone Kṛṣṇa's..., related with Kṛṣṇa is not, he or she is not horrible. Just like a police department is horrible for the criminals and not for the President. The President is not afraid of the police department because the police department is under his control. Similarly, this material nature with three qualities, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, it is horrible for the conditioned soul. Therefore, if anyone surrenders to Kṛṣṇa-mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti-immediately he overcomes the horrible feature of this material nature. Otherwise, if one does not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if one does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, this material nature is horrible. So therefore in both ways the spiritual nature or the material nature, they are guṇamayī. And the difference is that when one is conditioned, he is under the material nature guṇamayī, and when he is liberated, he is under the spiritual nature guṇamayī. But both of them are guṇamayī.



*So your name is Holly? [break] Eh? Yes. So your spiritual name is Herā*-pañcamī. Herā-pañcamī is the auspicious energy of Jagannātha Svāmī, yes. So you worship Jagannātha Svāmī very nicely. So now you can... So? There is no dakṣiṇā? Ghee?

Devotee: Yes, yes. We have dakṣiṇā.



*Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So who will keep this? You give. Now perform the yajña and let us finish. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. Real yajña is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. (end)





710717IN.DET

Initiation Lecture Excerpt

-

Detroit, July 17, 1971



Prabhupāda: So there are ten kinds of offenses. That is described. And the most important point is the committing sin on the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is a fact that as soon you chant Kṛṣṇa, all your resultant action of sinful activities immediately nullified. But if we again commit that sins, that is up to you. So we should not make it a business that "Let me go on committing sins, and it will be counteracted by chanting." No. This is not good. This is the greatest offense. Sometimes in Christian Church there is confession, and again they go and commit the same sin, and next time, again confession. Not like that. That is not good. One confession admitting, excused. But not that you commit sins over and over again and it will be excused. Similarly, you cannot commit sins on the strength of chanting. That is the greatest offense. (end)





710718IN.DET

Detroit Initiations

-

Detroit, July 18, 1971



Prabhupāda: Beads. Give me beads. (chants japa) Where is that tulasī plant? Today's not very hot. Warm... It is all right. (Chants japa, devotee chants purificatory mantras. More japa. Devotee chants mantra again. Prabhupāda corrects his pronunciation. More japa. Jagadīśa gives lecture while Prabhupāda chants japa. Then more japa.) The ten offenses, explain. (Jagadīśa explains ten offenses from book) Give them chairs. Some ladies are standing.



Jagadīśa: (continues lecture on offenses) ...the mind will be controlled. And we can fix the mind of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. The mind will be wavering here and there, but if we control the lower self...



*Prabhupāda: Or, in other words, when you fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa, then senses will be automatically controlled. This way is difficult. That way is easy. You fix up your mind... Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he was a emperor, but he was a great devotee. How? He always fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Vacāṁsi. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor. Kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor, on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he fixed up his mind. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. The next is the tongue. Mind fixed up, then the next sense is, important sense, is the tongue. Next to the mind, tongue should be controlled. How? By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Then other senses will be automatically controlled. (continues chanting japa)



Jagadīśa: (continues lecture) We must know the goal. We must know by intelligence...



*Prabhupāda: That verse is not quoted there? Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Leg should be engaged to go to the temple of Kṛṣṇa. Hand should be engaged for cleansing the temple. Nose should be engaged for smelling tulasī which is offered to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Ear should be engaged for hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Eyes should be engaged for seeing Kṛṣṇa beautifully dressed. These things are... In this way the temple worship means all these senses being engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, mind and senses. Then they can, cannot do any harm. They're already engaged. They cannot have any other engagement. And if you keep vacant the mind and the senses, then māyā will capture. Then eye will go to see the cinema and tongue will go to the restaurant, for rooster(?) (cocktails?), what is called? These things will be engaged. Yes. (continues japa)



Jagadīśa: (continues lecture) So we must always try to fix our mind on Kṛṣṇa's activities, Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet...



*Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhi śrotra*-mano-'bhirāmāt. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are described as the medicine of the disease bhava. Bhava means repeated birth and death. This is a disease. So bhavauṣadhi. The medicine, panacea, for curing this disease, bhavauṣadhi. At the same time, śrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt: it is very pleasing to hear, and very enlightening to the heart. Kṛṣṇa's name is so nice, Kṛṣṇa's pastime is so nice, that it is very pleasing, very satisfying, at the same time, it is the medicine for the disease of repeated birth and death. (continues japa)



Jagadīśa: One of the qualities of...



Prabhupāda: The more you become free from material harassment, the more you make advance in spiritual life, or the more you make advance in spiritual life, the more you become detached to the material life. These are the tests. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. Bhakti, devotional life, spiritual life, the test is that viraktir anyatra. Anyatra means beyond, without Kṛṣṇa, everything becomes detestful. The example is given just like a hungry man, when he's eating, as he's eating so he's feeling satisfaction and no hunger, proportionately. And at one time it will come, he'll say, "No, I don't want any more. I am completely satisfied." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He said, "I am now completely satisfied. I have, I haven't got to ask anything, benediction." That is the progress and ultimate goal of bhakti. As soon as one is saturated with bhakti, he has no more demand, no more attraction for this material world. Not... Kṛṣṇa attraction means decreasing attraction for the material world. Go on. (chants japa) One can test his advancement for spiritual life, how he is being detached to the material life. That's all. It is not to be taken certificate from others. Just like when you eat, you haven't got to take certificate from others. You'll feel, "Yes, I'm satisfied." That's all. You don't require, while eating nicely, you don't require to take certificate: "Am I eating nicely?" You'll know yourself. (japa) Another example is given: the candy. Candy, when a man is suffering from jaundice disease, if you give him candy, he'll taste it bitter. That means more one is materially suffering, he'll not be interested to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the example is this: The candy is the only medicine for jaundice. So we have to give him candy by force. And as he cure, as he cures, he'll say, "Oh, candy's very nice. Candy's sweet." So in the beginning we have to force. We have to give the medicine just like horse is given medicine. Three men required to induce medicine to the mouth of the horse. So this is our duty, to inject Hare Kṛṣṇa medicine just like pushing medicine in the throat of a horse. By force. (japa) (devotees chant prayers) Then neck, neck beads. Let them... (devotees continue prayers; devotee begins lecture again) Go on. I shall distribute this. Who is the...?



Jagadīśa: Should I go on?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. (Jagadīśa continues lecture) [break] Ātmārāma dāsa. Ātmārāma means who is satisfied with self*-realization. Next. Purañjana was a great king, devotee, in the history. (devotees coming up, taking initiation.) Aprākṛta. Aprākṛta means transcendental. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, next? There are different stages of understanding. First understanding is direct perception, pratyakṣa. In Sanskrit word it is called pratyakṣa, direct understanding. That tenth-class understanding, that is not actually understanding, direct perception. But people are giving stress that "I want to see. I want to touch." This is called pratyakṣa. Then next is parokṣa, hearing from authorities. Then aparokṣa, realizing. Then adhokṣaja means beyond the perception of the senses. Then aprākṛta, transcendental. These are the stages for going to the aprākṛta, transcendental stage. From direct perception, then, pratyakṣa, parokṣa, to take instruction from others. Then realization. Then beyond these senses. Then aprākṛta, transcendental. So Kṛṣṇa is aprākṛta. Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood by direct sense perception. Gradually you have to rise to the aprākṛta stage, which is called Vāsudeva stage, beyond this material understanding. That will take time. You have to practice that. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on.



Hiraṇyagarbha. Hiraṇyagarbha is Lord Brahmā's name. Or Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu's name. Generally Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu's. Hiraṇyagarbha dāsa. That's all right.

Then, next. Where is...? No neck bead? How is that? Where is neck bead? Huh? Oh, these things are not good. It must be well equipped. Otherwise, what is the meaning of initiation? Give... No neck bead? Go on. First of all get neck beads. Who is next? You have got neck beads? That's all right. Viśvakarmā. Viśvakarmā is the engineer of this universe. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You know what are the rules and regulations? That's right.

*Next? Come on. Dineśvara. Dineśvara is the name of sun, sun*-god. Come on. We are all dāsa, not the person. When you call "Kṛṣṇa," "Kṛṣṇa" means Kṛṣṇa dāsa. When you call Dineśvara, Dineśvara, means Dineśvara's servant. Our position is always servant. Dāsa-anudāsa [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Servant of the servant, servant of the servant, the more, the more you become on the lower status of servant, our position is greater. This is...

Come on. Next. You arranged for offering this sacrifice? You arranged? What is name? Mahā? Mahāvīra. Eh? M, h, r. Mahāvīra. Mahāvīra is the name of Hanumān, the servant of Lord Rāmacandra. He was very strong. He could raise even the hills for service of the Lord. Mahāvīra. Mahā means great, and vīra means hero.

Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't laugh. Then... Bahiṣmatī, one of the daughters of Manu. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know, what are the rules? Tell me. Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Come on. Next. Who's this? Oh, all right. Then how many still remaining? All right. (chants japa) First of all grains mixed up. (more japa) Come on. Take your. Come on. Whose beads are lying on the floor there? Whose beads? Oh, you never put it in the floor. When there is no bag, you put like this. Mahāyajñi, Mahāyajñi is a name of Lord Śiva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take. (more japa)

Uttamaśloka. Uttamaśloka means Kṛṣṇa who is chanted with best verses. Come on. (more japa, devotees chant prayers). You keep it. You keep it. (prayers continued) So where is that, he has come? Waiting. I'm going just now. (more prayers, japa)

Bhagavatī. Goddess Durgā's name. Goddess Durgā, external energy of Kṛṣṇa. (more japa, prayers) Tapasvinī: who performs great austerity. Svarga dāsī. (Prabhupāda leaves, devotees continue prayers) (end)



710721-22IN.NY

Initiations

-

New York, July 21-22, 1971



Prabhupāda: What is your name? Eh?



Susie: Susie.



Devotee: Kaṅkā dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Kaṅkā. Your name is Kaṅkā dāsī, the daughter of a great king. All our, I mean, girl disciples are named great devotees' daughter or wife, like that. So you know what are the rules and regulations?



Kaṅkā: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Tell me.



*Kaṅkā: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: And what is your name, spiritual? You forget immediately? (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. All right. How many rounds you will chant?



Kaṅkā: Sixteen rounds a day.



Prabhupāda: Only?



Kaṅkā: More if I can.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. (Kaṅkā offers obeisances) All right. Next. (japa)



Devotee: Rāṣṭrapālikā.



Prabhupāda: Rāṣṭrapālikā, governess, governeress. Is that?



Devotee: Governess.



Prabhupāda: Governess? Governess. You have to govern. So what are the rules and regulations?



*Rāṣṭrapālikā: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Who is your husband?



Rāṣṭrapālikā: Nitāi dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Nitāi dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Devotee: Vidarbha*-sūtā.



*Prabhupāda: Garbha*-sūtā.



*Devotee: Vidarbha*-sūtā.



*Prabhupāda: Eh? Vidarbha*-sūtā. Vidarbha-sūtā means the wife of Lord Rāmacandra. Come on. You are married? No, not yet. All right. Come on, next.



Devotee: Vilāsinī.



Prabhupāda: Vilāsinī. Vilāsinī means who enjoys with Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (japa)



Devotee: Uṣika.



Prabhupāda: Uṣika.



Devotee: Uṣika.



Prabhupāda: Uṣika is Brahmā's another name, Uṣiksaya. So you know the rules and regulations? What are they?



*Devotee: No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no gambling, no intoxication.



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. (japa) Ceto*-darpaṇa-marjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12].



Devotee: Romapāda.



Prabhupāda: Brahmapāda?



Devotee: Romapāda.



Prabhupāda: Roma?



*Devotee: R*-o-m-a-p-a-d-a.



*Prabhupāda: Rāmapāda? R*-o?



*Devotee: R*-o.



Prabhupāda: All right. So there was a great ṛṣi, Romaharṣaṇa, Romaharṣaṇa. So his disciple or servant. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on.



Devotee: Cedirāja.



*Prabhupāda: Cedirāja. Cedirāja was Kṛṣṇa's aunt's(?) husband. In connection with Kṛṣṇa. He was a great king. His son, Cedirāja's son was Kṛṣṇa's cousin*-brother but greatest enemy. Yes. Kṛṣṇa killed him. Yes. (laughter) Come on. (japa)



Devotee: Kuśakratha dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Kuśakratha. Kuśakratha. You know the rules and regulations? What are they?



*Kuśakratha: No meat*-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex, uh, no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Which you like best? (laughter) Which of them?



Kuśakratha: You are reading my mind, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) All right. Don't do that again.



Devotee: Kirtīrāja.



Prabhupāda: Kirtīrāja. The king who is famous. Who is that king who is famous, very? Do you know? No? Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) What are the rules?



*Kirtīrāja: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, and no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. [break] Kaṁsā was the sister of King Kaṁsa. Kaṁsā was not bad, but Kaṁsa was bad. Yes. Come on. So is there any thread?



Devotee: Yes. There's seven gāyatrīs in all.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Devotee: Four threads, seven gāyatrīs in all.



Prabhupāda: So they may come after. (end)





710722IN.NY

Initiations

-

New York, July 22, 1971



*Aravinda: Śruta*-kirtī.



*Prabhupāda: Śruta*-kirtī, whose activities are well famous. Come on. What are the rules?



*Śruta*-kirtī: No meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: How many rounds you'll chant?



*Śruta*-kirtī: Around twenty.



*Prabhupāda: All right. (japa*-break) Sudhamani. Sudhamani, yes. Brilliant night. You know the rules? Yes. (japa)



Aravinda: Puravī.



Prabhupāda: Puravī. Puravī means eastern, not western.



Devotee: Are these your beads? (devotee offers obeisances)



Prabhupāda: Śrutadeva. Śrutadeva means Viṣṇu. You know the rules and regulations? (Śrutadeva offers obeisances) Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Here.



Devotee: Harikeśa.



Prabhupāda: Harikeśa. (Harikeśa offers obeisances) Harikeśa means hairs of God. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Devotee: Ravindra*-svarūpa.



*Prabhupāda: Ravindra*-svarūpa. Just like sunshine. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. You know the rules and regulations? (devotees chanting japa)



Devotee: Rohiṇīdevī.



*Prabhupāda: Rohiṇī. Rohiṇī, the mother of Balarāma. (laughter*-it's a boy?)



Devotee: Devamīra.



Prabhupāda: Devamīra.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Victory flag. Victory flag. That means Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) Madirā. Madirā means intoxication. So you be intoxicated by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So after performance (indistinct) they may to my room.



Devotee: After the yajña?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: After the yajña the brāhmaṇas, those who are going to be second initiated, can come to Prabhupāda's room.



Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





710723IN.NY

Initiations

-

New York, July 23, 1971



Aravinda: Mamatā.



Prabhupāda: Mamatā.



Mamatā: Mamatā?



*Prabhupāda: M*-a-m-a-t-a. Mamatā devī, "one who is very affectionate to everyone." Come on. You know the rules and regulation? What are those?



*Mamatā: No meat*-eating, no taking of intoxicants, no illicit sex, and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: That's all. How many rounds you will chant?



Mamatā: Sixteen good rounds every morning.



*Prabhupāda: Come on, next. [break] Ādi*-pati. Ādi-pati means king. So you should be king. What is the business of king?



*Ādi*-pati: To rule.



Prabhupāda: So where you shall rule? You cannot say?



*Ādi*-pati: What is the rule?



Trivikrama: Where.



Prabhupāda: Where you will rule? You will rule over your senses. (laughter) Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know how to rule?



*Ādi*-pati: Everyone.



Prabhupāda: The rules. You do not know the four rules?



*Ādi*-pati: Oh, the rules. No meat-eating...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ruling.



*Ādi*-pati: No illicit sex, no gambling...



Prabhupāda: Yes, if you... Then you become king. Come on, next.



Aravinda: Prācī.



Prabhupāda: Prācī, yes. Prācī means one of the directions. Come on. You know the rules and regulations? (japa)



Aravinda: Puru dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Puru dāsa. There was a very powerful king. His name was Puru. He was a devotee. The same thing, to become ruler of the senses. Come on. We are all ruled by the senses. Senses dictate and we follow. This is the general condition, and we have to become ruler of the senses. Then it is successful. Generally people are ruled by the senses. My sense says, "Please take me to the cinema," the eyes. I immediately go and stand there three hours for the ticket. You see? So I am ruled by the senses. And when you will be strong enough, the eyes will say, "Please take me to the cinema," and you will say, "No, you cannot go to the cinema." Then you are ruler. So one is go*-dāsa. Go-dāsa means servant of the senses. And one is gosvāmī, master of the senses. That is the difference between gosvāmī and go-dāsa. Go means senses. When we are servant of the senses, then we are in the material world. And when we are master of the senses, then we are in the spiritual world. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have got. All right.



Aravinda: Indriyāṇi.



Prabhupāda: Indriyāṇi. Indriyāṇi, the queen of Lord Indra. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. You know the rules and regulations? Thank you.



Aravinda: Pratīci.



*Prabhupāda: Pratīci, one of the directions. You are also. Come on. (japa*-break)



Trivikrama: Bimali.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



*Trivikrama: Bimali, B*-i-m-a-l-i.



*Prabhupāda: Bimalā, Bimalā. Bimalā means spotless, where there is no dirty things. You know the rules and regulations? Yes. If you follow the rules and regulation, then there will be no dirt. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chant japa) Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Our, this process is simply to make the mind dirtyless. We are... Our mind is full of dirty things, so this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa means ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, cleansing the heart. And as soon as one is cleansed of the heart, that pure consciousness comes. Then he is liberated. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. All problems solved immediately. Due to misunderstanding of our position we have created so many dirty things. (doorbell rings) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is there somebody?



Viṣṇujana: Door. (pause) Maṇḍaleśvara.



Prabhupāda: Maṇḍeleśvara. Maṇḍaleśvara means a leader, leader of a group. He is called maṇḍaleśvara. Not ordinary rogues' group but Vaiṣṇava group. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are different kinds of groups.



Viṣṇujana: Naradevī.



*Prabhupāda: Naradevī. Naradevī means queen, like Queen Victoria. Is that all right? (laughter*-girl offers obeisances) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Queen Victoria was very popular in British Empire. Yes.



Trivikrama: Hṛṣīkeśa.



*Prabhupāda: Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīkeśa means the same thing, master of the senses. Hṛṣīka means senses, and hṛṣīka-īśa..., īśa means ruler or master. So actually hṛṣīkeśa means Kṛṣṇa. He is the master of the senses. And bhakti means hṛṣīka..., hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Our hṛṣīkeśa means if we be under the control of Hṛṣīkeśa, then these senses now being used for other purposes, upādhi, designations... Just like one is very busy in his national work. Means he is giving service to a designation, falsely thinking that "I am this body," "This body is American," "This body is Indian," "This body is this." So under this false impression he is giving service. This is one stage. And when we are freed from this, all these false impressions, and give service to Kṛṣṇa, that is our perfect stage. So Hṛṣīkeśa means Hṛṣīkeśa dāsa, to become the servant of the Hṛṣīkeśa. Kṛṣṇa is Hṛṣīkeśa, so your name is Hṛṣīkeśa dāsa. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. All right.



Devotee: All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





710724IN.NY

Initiations

-

New York, July 24, 1971



Prabhupāda: [break] You know the rules and regulations? Rules and regulations? Yes. What is that?



Viṣṇujana: Pañcaratna.



Prabhupāda: Pañcaratna dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Pañca means five; ratna means jewels. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) You know the rules?



Viṣṇujana: Navaratna.



Prabhupāda: Navaratna. Navaratha. Nine chariots. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. "One who has got nine chariots." (japa)



Viṣṇujana: Aṣṭaratha.



Prabhupāda: Aṣṭaratha, "one who has got eight chariots." Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulations?



Viṣṇujana: Patrick. Daśaratha.



Prabhupāda: Daśaratha, the father of Lord Rāmacandra. Hare Kṛṣṇa. "Who could drive his chariot on ten directions." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa)



Viṣṇujana: Daśarha.



Prabhupāda: Daśarha, a king in the dynasty in which Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulations? What are they? How many rounds you chant?



Girl: Sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Very good. Come on. What is her name?



Viṣṇujana: Śaśimukhi.



Prabhupāda: Śaśimukhi. Śaśi means moon, and mukhi means face.



Devotees: Ah!



Prabhupāda: Very nice, fortunate name. Come on. So...?



Viṣṇujana: Mahāmāyā.



Prabhupāda: Mahāmāyā. Mahāmāyā, the illusory energy. (chuckling) So illusory energy is not bad. Illusory energy is another face of Rādhārāṇī. Those who do not want to worship Kṛṣṇa, for them illusory energy is there. Come on. You know the rules and regulations? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on.



Viṣṇujana: Hemalatā.



Prabhupāda: Hemalatā, golden leaf. (japa)



Viṣṇujana: Saptaratha.



Prabhupāda: Saptaratha, "one who drives seven chariots." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (aside:) Take care... (japa)



Devotees: All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





710725IN.NY

Initiations

-

New York, July 25, 1971



Prabhupāda: You know the rules and regulations? That's all right. Jamadāgni.



Devotee: Jamadāgni.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Jamadāgni was a great sage. That's all. Father of Paraśurāma. (devotees chanting japa in background) (chanting japa) You know rules and regulations? Hm... What are they? Rules. What are the rules?



*Devotee: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication...



Prabhupāda: What is his name?



*Devotee: Brahma*-vit.



*Prabhupāda: Brahma*-vit. Brahma-vit, "whose profession is to realize Brahman." That's all right. (chants japa)



Devotee: Pāyasvinī.



*Prabhupāda: Pāyasvinī dāsa. Pāyasvinī means the Surabhī cow who delivers milk as much as you like. (devotees laugh) Surabhīr abhipālayantam. Cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Come on.



Devotee: Bhārgava.



Prabhupāda: Bhārgava. Bhārgava means the descendant of Bṛghu. Bṛghu is one of the great sages, seven sages, in..., rotating around the polestar, seven sages. And Bṛghu Muni is one of them. Bhārgava. In India there is still a brāhmaṇa's family, they are called Bhārgava. Come on, next.



Devotee: Sumahat.



Prabhupāda: Sumahat. "Great personality." Come on. You know the rules and regulations?



Devotee: (inaudible)



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



Devotee: Ricardo. Haihaya.



Prabhupāda: Haihaya, a great saintly king. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. What is this? Goblet? What is this? Oh! Thank you. Come on. What are the rules? The rules, regulative rules? Eh?



Devotee: The rules. What are the rules? The four regulative...



Prabhupāda: You do not know? No illicit sex... Tell her. Tell her.



Devotee: (repeats rules in background)



Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) Repeat again. Repeat. Yes, what are the rules, you repeat!



*Devotee: No meat*-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex...



Prabhupāda: No intoxication.



Devotee: Narmadā.



Prabhupāda: All right.



Devotee: Narmadā.



Prabhupāda: Narmadā. Narmadā is a sacred river in India, like Ganges. What you have got here? Come on, next. Narmadā, Godāverī, Kāverī, Gaṅgā, Yamunā. All sacred river.



Devotee: (offering obeisances and praṇāma mantras)



Devotee: Vaijayantī.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Devotee: Vaijayantī.



Prabhupāda: Vaijayantī. Vaijayantī is one who becomes victorious everywhere.



Devotee: Urvasī.



Prabhupāda: Urvasī. Urvasī is the beautiful society girl in the heavens. (laughter) Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee: Gosita?



*Prabhupāda: Gosita. Gosita was a great sage. Play that record, Govindam ādi*-puruṣam...



Devotees: Jaya! (end)





710726I2.NY

*Initiation and Brahma*-saṁhitā Lecture

-

New York, July 26, 1971



*Prabhupāda: Govinda means who gives pleasure to the cows, who gives pleasure to the senses. He's Govinda. Go means..., another meaning is earth. So He gives pleasure. Kṛṣṇa is all pleasure potency. And ādi*-puruṣa. Ādi-puruṣam, original person. (sound) What is that? (pause) Ādi-puruṣa, original person. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. (aside:) Why don't you sit down? Sit down. Ādi, original; *puruṣa, person. The origin... Unless the origin of everything is a person, how so many persons are coming? Every one of us, all living entities, either man or animal or demigod, even trees, plants, they're all persons. Everyone, individual person. So if every living entity is a person, how the original of, origin of everything can be imperson? The origin must be person. Therefore ādi*-puruṣam. The origin, original, or origin of everything, janmādy asya yataḥ, Absolute Truth, is that from whom or from which everything is emanating. So everything is a person, individual. So origin must be person. Ādi-puruṣam. Therefore Brahmā..., this Brahma-saṁhitā is made by Brahmā. He's the original creature within this universe. He's recommending that "My origin is also a person." Ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi: "I worship that original person." Therefore the origin of everything, the Absolute, the summum bonum, cannot be impersonal. What is the reason? Where is the experience that from imperson a person comes? There is no such instance within our experience. From person, a person comes. My father is a person, so I am a person. His father is a person; therefore my father is a person. Go on searching, you'll find the original person. Try to understand this philosophy. The whole world is impersonal. They do not know anything, of course, but they have got an impersonal philosophy. How the impersonal philosophy can stand? Every individual entity is a person; *therefore origin must be a person, ādi*-puruṣam. And it is recommended by the authority, Brahmā.



*Brahmā is the original creature within this universe. We, we do not know what is beyond this universe, but within this universe, he's the first creature. He's also known as ādi kavi. Ādi*-kavaye. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you have read: tene hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Ādi-kavi means the original learned person. Brahmā is a learned person. Darwin's theory is that origin is void. That is nonsense. The origin also, even within this universe, is a learned person. Ādi-kavi. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Ādi-kavi is person. Ādi means original learned person, learned creature, he's person. And his origin also person. Brahmā's description is there. I forget that verse now. The purport of that verse is that Brahmā, the first creature, he's also receiving knowledge from the ādi person, ādi person, or original person. Tene. That is described in Bhāgavatam. Brahma... Brahma means jñāna, knowledge. Brahma-jñāna. Tene brahma. People may doubt how Brahmā can learn. "He's the original creature. Where is the other person? A spiritual master is also person. So if he was initiated, where is another person?" Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is tene hṛdā, from within, from the heart. God is situated in everyone's heart. So at that time, although Brahmā is the first creature and there was no other person, but the other person, ādi-puruṣa, is there, within the heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is situated in everyone's heart. Therefore it is said hṛdā. Sometimes we get education, instruction from hṛdā. That hṛdā, Kṛṣṇa, sitting in everyone's heart, instructs everyone. But those who are not devotee, they cannot understand what is the dictation. They deny. But those who are devotees, they can understand that "Here is the dictation from the Lord." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam.

*So therefore to hear from the Lord which is situated within our heart, that requires a qualification, a certain stage. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam: "I give instruction to them." To whom? Not all. Of course, He's giving all. But to a devotee, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam: [Bg. 10.10] "Those who are twenty-four hours, constantly engaged in My service." Satata. Satata means twenty-four hours. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām: engaged. Those who are engaged twenty-four hours, bhajatām. How engaged? Bhajatām: in devotional service. How devotional service can be done? Prīti-pūrvakam, in love. They must enjoy. Here is an opportunity of serving Kṛṣṇa. The more they engage in service, the more they become pleased. That is spiritual service. There is no retirement. Material service, you'll get tired, fatigued: "Oh, I have worked so much now." In the spiritual service you'll get more energy: "Let me serve more, serve more." To such devotees, the Lord, sitting in the heart, gives instruction: "Do like this," so that he'll very soon come to Him. "Do like this." And to the others? Yes, others also He gives instruction. What instruction? "You wanted to do this. Do it now. Here is opportunity. You wanted to steal. All right. Here is the opportunity. Steal." Because everyone's heart, Kṛṣṇa is there. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo [Bg. 15.15]. In the Fifteenth Chapter: "I am situated in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "From Me, there is remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness." Forgetfulness is also coming from Him.

*So this is going on. Therefore the ādi*-puruṣa, Kṛṣṇa is ādi-puruṣa; *He's a person. But because He's not a person like us, therefore ordinary person cannot understand God can be person. He thinks that "God must be a person like me." His limited knowledge, speculator, poor fund of knowledge, he thinks that "God must be like me." Therefore in some of the scriptures He's denied personality, because this rascal thinks that "God is a person like me." Therefore it is said: not person. When it is said God is not person, that means He's not a person like you. He's not a rascal like you. That is description. When it is negatively described that He's not a person, that means He's not a person like you. But He's a person, a different person. Sac*-cid-ānanda vigraha. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His person is eternal. He does not die. We die. He's full of bliss. Our, this body, is not full of bliss; *full of miseries. So how God can be a person like you? Therefore sometimes He is described as impersonal. Otherwise God is a person. He's a person like us, and He's the original person. Govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So those who are in poor fund of knowledge, they can understand that the Absolute Truth is a person. Therefore we have to take lessons from Brahmā, the supreme poet, or learned person, who is the original person. And he says: govindam, govindam ādi-puruṣam. And he says, tam ahaṁ bhajāmi: "I worship."

*So we are Brahmā sampradāya*-our disciplic succession from Brahmā. Therefore we shall accept Brahmā's statement and we worship ādi-puruṣam, Govindam. We may not know that ādi-puruṣa, but we follow the footsteps of ācāryas. Brahmā says this. Brahmā's disciple, Nārada, says like that. Nārada's disciple Vyāsa says like that. Vyāsa's disciple, Madhvācārya, says like that. In this way, Īśvara Purī says like that. His disciple, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, says like that. His disciple, Gosvāmīs, Ṣaḍ-gosvāmīs, they say like that. In this way, we receive knowledge by paramparā, by step by step in the disciplic succession. Therefore our knowledge is perfect.

Go on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (initiation begins) (end)



710726I3.NY

Initiations and Sannyāsa

-

New York, July 26, 1971



Aravinda: Nārāyaṇa dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa dāsa. You know the rules and regulations? Thank you. Take this. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. This Deity photograph, this?



Aravinda: Pompā dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Pompā dāsī. Pompā is the sacred river. Flow with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Aravinda: Madhupurī dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Madhupurī. Madhupurī is Mathurā, Kṛṣṇa's birthplace. So you have to serve Mathurā and be associated with Rādhārāṇī. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulation? What are they?



*Madhupurī: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication...



Prabhupāda: No gambling. She is not married?



Aravinda: Vārāṇasī.



Prabhupāda: Vārāṇasī dāsī. Vārāṇasī, the sacred conjunction of two rivers, Vāruṇī and Asī. Vāruṇī is Ganges, and Asī. So combination of two sacred rivers flowing from the lotus toe of Kṛṣṇa.



Aravinda: Prayāg.



Prabhupāda: Spelling?



*Aravinda: P*-r-a-y-a-g.



*Prabhupāda: Prayāg. Prayāg dāsī. Prayāg is the chief holy place in India, where we held our... That is Allahabad. That is Prayāg. Another name is Prayāg. Real name is Prayāg. Tīrtha*-rāja, the king of pilgrimage. So you have to serve. Come on. You know the rules and regulation?



Candanācārya: Do you know the rules and regulations?



Prayāg: Yes. No illicit sex, no intoxicants, no meat, fish or eggs, and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Next. Come on. (japa)



*Aravinda: Sītā*-Rāma dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Oh. Sītā*-Rāma. Raghupati rāghava. Lord Rāmacandra, husband of Sītā. You are servant of Sītā-Rāma. Very high position. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulations? All right. Thank you. Next.



Aravinda: Puṣpavana.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



*Aravinda: Puṣpavana. P*-u-s-p-a-v-a-n.



Prabhupāda: Puṣpavana?



*Aravinda: P*-u-s-p-a-v-a-n.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Puṣpavana. Puṣpavana is the name of Cupid. He throws the arrow of flower. And Kṛṣṇa is the supreme Cupid. You know the rules and regulation? Yes. Come on. (sings softly) Rādhe jaya jaya mādhava dayite, gokula taruṇī maṇḍala... Hm?



Aravinda: Puṣkara.



Prabhupāda: Puṣkara dāsa. There is a sacred lake in India, Puṣkara tīrtha. Puṣkara tīrtha. So anyone who takes bath in that lake, he becomes a devotee. So you try to bring all people of the world to take bath in Puṣkara.



Aravinda: Tapas.



*Prabhupāda: Tapas. From tapasya. You have to perform severe austerity. Without severe austerity nobody can achieve Kṛṣṇa. Kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. After many, many births' pious activities and austerity one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhānām, those who have attained perfection, out of many of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. So by Lord Caitanya's grace we are distributing freely such thing, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53], Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulation? Then you come. [break] Open. You take this and... Yes. First of all take this. Then care of... Stand up. This side. Now where is that mantra? You chant this mantra. (Trivikrama repeats) Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām upāsitāṁ pūrvatamair maha... What is this? It is not properly... Oh. Pūrvatamair mahadbhir ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāraṁ tamo mukundam aṅghri niṣevayaiva. Yes. Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhā. This vow-today you are taking sannyāsa-so keeping oneself steady and fixed up in this position, etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhā... Parātmā, the Supreme Lord... Jīva, living entities, they are ātmā, and Kṛṣṇa is parātmā. Paramātmā and parātmā. So parātmā-niṣṭhām, to serve Kṛṣṇa. So "Taking sannyāsa, from this day my vow to serve Kṛṣṇa is more fixed up, steady." Upāsitāṁ pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ: "This practice, this process was accepted by my previous ācāryas." Your spiritual master, his spiritual master, his spiritual master, they all accepted this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted at the age of twenty-four years. Therefore it is not a new introduction. Pūrvatamaiḥ. Pūrvatamaiḥ means previous ācārya, they accepted it, sannyāsa āśrama. That is Vedic civilization. Everyone has to accept sannyāsa āśrama at a certain period, generally at the end. But one who is advanced, he can take sannyāsa even at young age. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu took sannyāsa, Rāmānujācārya took sannyāsa very young age. My Guru Mahārāja took sannyāsa at very young age. So it is not that only old men should take sannyāsa, but there are many instances. Why? Now, parātma-niṣṭhā. Etāṁ sa āsthāya ahaṁ tariṣyāmi: "I shall cross over." Tariṣyāmi means cross over. Duranta-pāram: "which is very difficult to overcome." Tamo: "this darkness." This material world is dark. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. Vedic injunction is, "Don't remain in this darkness. Go the other side, jyoti, where there is..." Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is another nature, where there is no need of sun, no need of moon, no need of electricity. There jyoti... Jyoti means effulgent light, only light. So we have to cross over this ocean of darkness and reach that jyotir dhāma. Jyotirmāyā dhāma, brahmajyoti. Tamo mukundāṅghri. How it will be possible? Mukunda. Mukunda means... Muk means mukti, or liberation. So one who gives liberation and gives ānanda... Unless one is liberated, one cannot understand what is ānanda, or pleasure. Here in the material world we are trying to be happy by false pleasure. Actual pleasure... Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasure. When we serve Kṛṣṇa, mukundāṅghri... Aṅghri means lotus feet, leg. When we appoint ourself, engage ourself in the service of the lotus feet of Mukunda, who can deliver liberation and transcendental bliss... Tamo mukundāṅghri niṣevayaiva: "Only by serving Him I shall be able." This mantra you shall take copy. Also Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja, you can read this portion and...



Kīrtanānanda: [break] "...they misunderstand the purpose of tridaṇḍa, and by such deviation..."



Prabhupāda: Our, this daṇḍa, there are four sticks. One stick is representing the jīva soul, another stick is representing body, another stick is mind, and another stick, speech. Kaya mana vākya. So the jīva engages himself with his body, mind, and words for preaching work. Go on. So there is another sect of sannyāsī, Māyāvādī sannyāsī. They take one stick, eka.



Kīrtanānanda: "They misunderstand the purpose of tridaṇḍa, and by such deviation..." (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Śiva Swami? What is that?



*Kīrtanānanda: S*-i-v-a?



Prabhupāda: Śiva Swami. All right.



*Kīrtanānanda: "...accepted ekadaṇḍī sannyāsa order, but His acceptance of tridaṇḍī-sannyāsa is understood. This mantra was first chanted by a learned brāhmaṇa of Avantipur after being too much disturbed with the materialistic way of life. (reads sannyāsa speech*-very faint)"



Prabhupāda: The ekadaṇḍī sannyāsī and Māyāvādī sannyāsī, they think that accepting sannyāsa, they become one with Nārāyaṇa or the Supreme Lord. But our process is different. Our process is that we give up everything material and simply engage ourself in Kṛṣṇa's service with body, mind, and speeches, and as I am, soul. This is the difference. So we should not mix up this ekadaṇḍī sannyāsī and tridaṇḍī sannyāsī.



Kīrtanānanda: "They have no inclination to render service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Being very much disgusted with the materialistic way of life, they do not understand the purpose of the sannyāsa order. But those who are strictly followers of the Vaiṣṇava principles, they do not accept Māyāvādī way of sannyāsa. In the sect of Lord Caitanya..." (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Bas. So you'll get a copy of this. So from this day your only business is to preach and collect alms for Kṛṣṇa. Give me that mango. So I give you first of all. Take this flower. And where is your...? Yes. Give him that flower garland.



Trivikrama: All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotee: It's something for Your Divine Grace.



*Prabhupāda: All right. Oh. Chant govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ. (end)





710726IN.NY

Initiations

-

New York, July 26, 1971



Aravinda: Yogamāyā dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Yogamāyā. Yogamāyā, the internal energy of Kṛṣṇa. You are the servant of internal energy. Come on. What are the rules and regulations?



*Yogamāyā: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: So you agree?



Yogamāyā: (laughs) Yes.



Prabhupāda: All right. Come on. Next. (japa) [break]



Aravinda: Chāyadevī dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Aravinda: Chāyadevī. Chāyadevī.



Prabhupāda: Chāyadevī. Chāyadevī. Chāyadevī means material nature. That is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Acts according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Come on. You know the rules and regulation? All right.



Aravinda: Kaumadakī.



Prabhupāda: Kaumadakī, born of lotus flower. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Aravinda: Gandharvikā.



Prabhupāda: Gandharvikā. Another name of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Come on. You know the rules and regulation?



*Gandharvikā: No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: All right. Thank you. Right hand. Right hand you should... Yes.



Aravinda: Charaṇi.



Prabhupāda: Charaṇi devī. Celestial singers. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulations?



*Charaṇi: Yes. No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (japa)



Aravinda: Kapindra.



Prabhupāda: Kapindra means Hanumānjī, servant of Lord Rāmacandra. Come on. You know the rules and regulations? That's all right.



Aravinda: Virendra.



Prabhupāda: Virendra. Virendra means Arjuna or Kṛṣṇa. Come on. The supreme hero. Virendra. (japa)



Aravinda: Surendra.



Prabhupāda: Surendra is also Kṛṣṇa's another name. Sura means gods, demigods, and the chief, the chief is Kṛṣṇa. Come on.



Aravinda: Viṣṇugadā.



Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu?



Aravinda: Viṣṇugadā.



Prabhupāda: Viṣṇugadā. You know Viṣṇu has got the club? Śaṅkha cakra gadā padma. Gadā, the club. So you are that. You have to punish all the demons.



Aravinda: Mahendra.



*Prabhupāda: Mahendra. Mahā*-indra. Mahā-indra is the heavenly king. Yas tu indra-gopa-mahā indra. There are two kinds of indra. One is a small insect which is called indra-gopa, and beginning from this indra up to the mahā-indra, the king of heaven, they are all under the reaction of fruitive activities. Yas tv indra-gopa-mahendra-mahā-sva-karma-phala-bhājanam āta... Everyone is enjoying and suffering the result of his fruitive activities. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. But those who are in devotional service, they have no reaction of their work because they do not work for themselves. They are for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore there is no reaction. So Mahendra means the greatest king within this universe. So because he is representative of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we accept him as one of the devotees. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (aside:) Don't take this. (end)





710728IN.NY

Initiation Lecture

-

New York, July 28, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo [Bs. 5.34]. The sky is so vast. This is material sky. We cannot even travel all over the sky. The modern scientist says that you go to the end of the sky cover, it will take forty thousands of years by the light year. This sky is only insignificant portion of the whole sky. You have no information of the whole sky. Nobody has information, the unlimited. The balance sky is spiritual sky. So if you have got any plane which is running on the speed of mind and air... You know the speed of mind, it can run millions of miles in a second. So, if you have got any airplane which runs on the speed of mind, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso, either on the plane of air speed or even the mind speed, and you go on with that mind speed, koṭi-śata-vatsara, not only forty thousand years, but millions and hundreds of millions of years, and not forty thousand years, koṭi-śata... Koṭi means ten million. Koṭi, hundred millions koṭi means. One lakh equal to..., ten lakh is equal to one million. Ten millions, koṭi, and multiply by hundreds. For that period, if you go on with the speed of mind, still you'll find, avacintya-tattva, inconceivable. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām. And that plane made of not ordinary man. Muni-puṅga, highest learned, I mean to say, scientist, philosopher. Still avacintya tattva.



*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*Still it will remain avacintya*-tattva.



*Avacintya means beyond our conception. Even though you are able to go in high speed, and for so many years, still Kṛṣṇa remains avacintya*-tattva. Nobody can find out where is Kṛṣṇa's abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Therefore, the Māyāvādīs, in desperate frustration, they say that Kṛṣṇa is impersonal, because they want to approach Kṛṣṇa by mundane activities, by mental exercise, mental gymnastic. Kṛṣṇa is not available in that way. Kṛṣṇa is available only to His devotees. Kṛṣṇa is the property of His devotee.

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



That's all right. (chants japa with devotees)



*Devotee: Rādhā*-bhavānī



*Prabhupāda: Rādhā*-bhavānī, "always thinking of Rādhārāṇī." You know the rules and regulation? The rules and regulations?



*Rādhā*-bhavānī: No meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxicants and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. (japa chanting continues)



*Devotee: Nimāi*-sundara dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Nimāi*-sundara. Nimāi-sundara is Lord Caitanya's name. Nimāi-sundara dāsa, you are servitor of Lord Caitanya. (japa continues)



Devotee: Māyāpura-śaśi dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Mahāprabhu?



Devotee: Mahāprabhu-śaśi dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Mahāprabhu Śaśi?



Devotee: Mahapura-śaśi.



Prabhupāda: Māyāpura.



Devotee: Māyāpura-śaśi.



Prabhupāda: Māyāpura-śaśi is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's another name. Śaśi means moon, and Māyāpura is the birthplace of Lord Caitanya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulations? The rules and regulations?



Devotee: The rules?



Prabhupāda: Yes (pause). All right. (japa continues)



Devotee: Navadvīpa dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Yes, very good. Navadvīpa is the place of Lord Caitanya, and you are servitor of Lord Caitanya. Come on. (japa continues)



Devotee: Viśvambhara.



Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara. Viśvambhara is another name of Lord Caitanya. Viśvambhara dāsa. Come on. You know the rules and regulations? Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee: (offers praṇāma mantras in background)



*Devotee: Jagannātha*-sūta.



*Prabhupāda: Jagannātha*-sūta is Caitanya... Prabhu. His father's name is Jagannātha. Sūta means son. Jagannātha son. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's father's name was Jagannātha Miśra. So you know the rules and regulations. What are those?



*Jagannātha*-sūta: No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (japa)



Devotee: (chants praṇāma mantras)



*Prabhupāda: So those who are initiated now, you're path is now open to Kṛṣṇa's abode. Satāṁ prasaṅga: by association of devotees. Satām, satām means devotees. Sat, sat means, that exists eternally, is called sat. Kṛṣṇa is sat, om tat sat. So devotees are also sat. So satāṁ prasaṅga, by association... Prasaṅga means very intimate association. Saṅga means association, and pra means still elevated or intimate association. Kṛṣṇa's words, Kṛṣṇa's teachings, Kṛṣṇa's topics, they become very palatable in the association of devotees. In the association of nondevotees one can not understand Kṛṣṇa, neither it becomes very palatable. Bhagavad*-gītā is well known in your country, since a very long time. There are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā in your country, Indian and foreign editions. Many. But nobody could become a Kṛṣṇa conscious, a Kṛṣṇa's devotee, because they were not discussed amongst the devotees. They took it, Bhagavad-gītā, as table talks or some sort of philosophical... They could not seriously understand Kṛṣṇa, because the writing or discussing or discourses took place amongst the nondevotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. But if you actually (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa, then you have to talk of Kṛṣṇa amongst devotees. We are opening different centers just to give people chance. They may have intimate association with the devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt mama vīrya-saṁvido. Vīrya-saṁvida. Vīrya means full potency. Mama vīrya-saṁvida bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Hṛd means heart and karṇa means ear. Rasāyanāḥ means pleasing, very pleasing, tasteful, rasāyanāḥ.



*So satāṁ prasaṅgam mama vīrya*-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. First of all, in order to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness one has to be engaged about Kṛṣṇa. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is preaching a philosophy to Arjuna. People try to understand. That is Kṛṣṇa kathā. That Kṛṣṇa kathā becomes effective when they're discussed within the circle of devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido [SB 3.25.25]. Actually it is full of potency. Just contrary to this, there is another injunction by Sanātana Gosvāmī: Avaiṣṇava-mukham gīrṇaṁ puṇyaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam na suryatram. When Kṛṣṇa kathā, Kṛṣṇa topics, is discussed by a person who is not a vaiṣṇava, dedicated life to Kṛṣṇa, that is not to be heard. Avaiṣṇava mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. One fashionable speaker is teaching Bhagavad-gītā. Just like the other day a rascal came. He, he's announcing that he's the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. You know that rascal? Very well. Yes. He wanted to study from Sanskrit from the rascal. You could not understand that I see. So śāstra says, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. One should not hear from. Why? Kṛṣṇa kathā is nice. Why should not be heard from a person who is not a devotee, but he may be scholar? But Sanātana Goswami says, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. Never. So the reason the example here is given, sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Milk, everyone knows milk is very nourishing food, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent it is poison. You can say "Milk is very nice. What is the wrong if it is touched by the serpent?" But Sanātana Goswami warns that it is not to be touched, because it has become now poison. Instead of milk it has become poison. So you should be very careful not to discuss. It is meant for the kaniṣṭha adhikārī, those who are neophytes. They may be affected, but those who are strong enough, advanced, they are not affected. But that is different thing, generally.

*So we should not discuss Kṛṣṇa kathā with a person who is a nondevotee. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has also said like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was enquired by one nice householder devotee, "What is the general behavior of a Vaiṣṇava?" He immediately answered, asat*-saṅga-tyāgī vaiṣṇava-ācāra: "One has to give up the association of asat." Sat, I have told you, sat means devotee, and asat means nondevotee. Asat-saṅga... Simply to give up the association of nondevotees. That is vaiṣṇava-ācāra. How a Vaiṣṇava should behave, how he should maintain his standard, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says in one word: asat-saṅga-tyāgī avaiṣṇava-ācāra. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, satāṁ prasaṅga mama vīrya-saṁvido. One can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness in association with devotee. The same thing Caitanya Mahāprabhu said in a different way, asat-saṅga-tyāgī, not to associate with nondevotees. That is vaiṣṇava-ācāra. So in future we shall be very careful, all the devotees, not to talk with rascals, nondevotees. It will be impure, it will have poisonous effect, and that will kill Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I do not know how this man was allowed to stay here for so many months. Nobody could detect that here is a serpent?

*So you should be very careful in future. That is very easy to understand, who is a serpent. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, because one may inquire, "Who is asat? How can I understand?" asat eka strī*-saṅgī kṛṣṇābhakta. Asat means who is attached to, very much attached to woman. You see that man, he was posing himself as yogi, and he is living with one woman. It was God's grace that he came with that woman so that he disclosed himself. By Kṛṣṇa's grace. Asat eka strī-saṅgī kṛṣṇābhakta. Strī-saṅgī. One should not be attached to any woman except his wife. Then he becomes asat. Asat eka strī-saṅgī kṛṣṇābhakta. So we should be very careful, asat, who is asat. It doesn't matter if one is very highly educated; *still he should not be associated. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given instruction that vidhayalam krto 'pi san (?) tyaja durjana*-saṁsargam. Durjana-saṁsargam, association of rascals, nondevotees; tyaja, give up. "Oh, he is very learned scholar in Sanskrit, but vidhalayaṁ kṛto 'pi san, in spite of his being very learned scholar, you should kick him out." Vidhalayaṁ kṛto 'pi san. How is that? Yes, he is giving example, maṇinā bhūṣitaḥ sarpaḥ kim asau na bhayaṅkaraḥ. A serpent, you know some serpent has got jewels on the head. Does it mean a serpent with jewel on hood is not ferocious because he has got jewel? He's as ferocious as ordinary serpent. That these things we should know. So I do not know how this man was given shelter in our temple. Nobody could understand that "Here is a serpent," and he was accepted as Sanskrit scholar. So you should be very much careful about this thing in future.

*Thank you. (break*-followed by lecture excerpt)

*You are spirit soul. Woods and stone will not give you any pleasure. That is not possible. You are not wood and stone. You are spirit soul. You must have spiritual food. Therefore, in America especially, despite all material opulences, they..., you are becoming confused and frustrated and disappointed. Because wood and stone will not satisfy you. You must have spiritual food. That is Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam.

Thank you everyone. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710822IN.LON

Initiation Lecture

-

London, August 22, 1971



Prabhupāda: (chants responsively with devotees:)



oṁ aparitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ



*The purpose of this mantra, apavitraḥ pavitro vā... Apavitraḥ means contaminated, infected, and pavitra means purified. So the mantras says, "Either one is in contaminated stage or purified stage..." Apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthām. Sarva means all, avastha means circumstances. "In all circumstances, in whatever circumstances one may be, either in contaminated stage or purified stage," yaḥ smaret, "anyone who remembers Puṇḍarīkākṣam..." Puṇḍarīkākṣam means Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Puṇḍarīka*-akṣam, lotus-eyed. So Lord Viṣṇu's eyes are just like lotus petals, so He's called puṇḍarīkākṣam. So such person who remembers, chants the name of the lord, puṇḍarīkākṣam, sa bahya... Bahya means external, and internal, abhyantaram, śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified. Śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu. So simply by remembering the holy name of the Lord, Viṣṇu, one is purified in any stage of life. That is a fact. It is said, there is a Bengali verse which says, eka kṛṣṇa nāme yata pāpa hare, ai haya tati pāpa karibare nare (?). "By chanting once the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, the sinful man can vanquish so much volumes of sinful activities, reaction, that he's unable to perform." A sinful man is very expert to commit sinful activities, but the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is so strong that he will be unable to commit so much sins as can be extinguished simply by uttering once the name of Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. This is a fact. But unfortunately, we, by chanting, vanquish all kinds of sinful activities. That's all right. But the next moment we again begin. So that is the defect. Just like I have taken some poison. Now you go to a doctor, he gives you medicine. The poisonous effect is finished or gone. You are now free. And just after coming from the doctor's house, again you take poison, and again go to the doctor. The doctor will give you medicine, but what is this business, that you go to the doctor and counteract the poisonous effect and again come back and again take poison? What is this business? Is it very intelligent business? If you want to take poison, then take poison and die. Why you go to the physician and counteract it and again take poison? You see?



*So there are certain systems that... Just like in Christian religion, they go weekly to the church and confess their sinful activities, and it is counteracted. That's all right. God can counteract anything, or God's representative can do that. But again just coming from the church again I begin the same thing? It is the gravest type of sinful act. That is the Vedic injunction. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa*-buddhiḥ. Anyone who commits sin on the strength of chanting the holy name of Viṣṇu, oh, his sinful activities cannot be vanquished even by so much attempt performing sacrifices or penances. No it is not possible. He's condemned. Just like you have committed some criminal act, and you are presented in the court, and you say, "My lord, I did not know this act. I have committed this. I may be excused. I'll not do this." Then you are excused, there is a... "That's all right." But if you are excused and again come back and again do the same sinful activities, criminal activities, and if you are again arrested, then you'll be very, very severely punished. It is a common sense. How people think that "Because I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or I take the holy name of God or I go to church, therefore I can commit so much sins, never mind. It will be counteracted next week or next moment when I shall chant." This is one of the gravest offense in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. You should always remember. By this initiation, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, your sinful activities will be counteracted, undoubtedly. But don't commit again. Then it will be the gravest offense. There are ten kinds of offenses. You should be careful. You have got those printed papers? Ten kinds of offenses? Yes, you take. This is a fact. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ. As soon as you chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, you become relieved from all reaction of sinful activities.

Every one of us, anyone who has come to this material world, beginning from Lord Brahmā, what to speak of ourselves, down to the small ant, everyone is, to some extent we have committed sinful activities; *therefore we are in this material world. This is a fact. Now, in this materialist world there are different stages, different species of life. That you know, that there are 8,400,000 species of life, and we are passing through all the species of life. And according to our sinful position we are placed in different kinds of places also in God's creation. There are different kinds of places also. So this is going on. We are traveling, wandering throughout the universe, through many species of life and in many planets. This is going on. So Caitanya*-caritāmṛta says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. In this way, the living entities while wandering throughout the whole universe... Sometimes in nice place, nice life, nice society... There is no nice place, but we accept, "This is good, this is bad." That is our mental concoction. Actually, in the material world there is no happiness, there is no nice place, because wherever you go... As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even if you go to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, then there also punar āvartinaḥ, means the four principles of material existence, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, they will accompany you. Wherever you go. You may have a long duration of life, but you have to meet death. That is compulsory. And as soon as you meet death, you have to enter into the womb of a certain type of mother and develop another body and come out again and begin another life. This is going on. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ā-bhrama-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even if you go to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, within this material world, that process will go on, repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. Because this material body, wherever you get it, either you are American or Englishman or Indian or moon planet or sun planet or Brahmā planet, Brahmaloka planet, anywhere you go, you'll get a certain type of body, but that material body is subjected to these four principles: birth, death, disease, and old age.

*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā in the Thirteenth Chapter, that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. This prescription is given for the man who is cultivating knowledge. For fools, everything is all right. That is a different thing. For a child, if you give the child a little poison, oh, it will eat, because it does not know. Whatever he gets. If you'll give fire, oh, it will try to eat it. So... But those who are in knowledge, cultivating knowledge, for them there are twenty items in the Bhagavad-gītā. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam. [Bg. 13.8] Ācāryopāsanam, accepting spiritual master, this is also one of the items, twenty items, for advancing in knowledge. So this initiation process is ācāryopāsanam, beginning of worshiping the spiritual master. So in that, I mean to say, list of how to progress in knowledge, so these four principles, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam... One should always put in his front that "However expert I may be, I'll have to meet death, I'll have to take birth, I'll have to become old man, and I'll have to suffer the pangs of diseases." Then what is advancement? Either you become very rich man or become a Brahmā or become a small ant, you have to die. Just like when Hiraṇyakaśipu worshiped Lord Brahmā and asked him the benediction that "Sir, make me immortal." And Brahmā said, "I, myself, is not immortal. How can I make you immortal?" So immortality is not possible. Then how it is possible? We want immortality. Now we are sitting here. If there is some siren, then immediately on the roof of this house, atom bomb will be dropped. Then immediately we shall flee away from this place. Why? Because we are not prepared to meet death. We do not wish to die. That's a fact. But death is forced. This is knowledge, that "I do not wish to die. Why death is forced upon me? Or if there is any means to avoid death?" The śāstra says, "Yes, there is." Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa says that... Kṛṣṇa says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6], that if you... Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "If you come to my planet, dhāma," dhāma means planet, place, "then you'll never come back to take birth again in this material world."

*So any intelligent man, if he's actually has got sense, he should try for this. And especially in this human form of life, it is possible to achieve this benediction, that I can become immortal, I can become blissful, I can become full of knowledge*-sac-cid-ānanda. Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then ultimately you also become exactly like Him, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Vigraha means form, body, and sat means eternal, and cit means knowledge. Sat, cit, ānanda. Ānanda means blissfulness. So this body, however you may be... You may be American, you may be Englishman, you may be very rich man, you may be very poor man, you may be white man, you may be black man, whatever you may be, but this body is not sac-cid-ānanda. It is not eternal; *it will end. It is full of ignorance. We do not know what will happen if I go just out of this door. Full of ignorance. We do not know what is happening beyond this wall. So... And always full of anxieties. Where is ānanda? There is no ānanda. So this body is not sac*-cid-ānanda vigraha. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and act accordingly, then you will, at the end, you'll get sac-cid-ānanda form. Your form is sac-cid-ānanda because you are part and parcel of sac-cid-ānanda, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. "All living entities are My parts and parcels," Kṛṣṇa says. And another place He says,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



He's the father of everyone.



*So just like here also, the father is diseased, the son gets the body diseased, infects. If the father is healthy, the son is also healthy, child is also healthy. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa is sac*-cid-ānanda vigraha, if Kṛṣṇa is the original father, then we are also sac-cid-ānanda vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. But at the present moment, what is our condition? Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Now because we have got this material body, we have come in contact of this external energy, material energy, we have got this material body; *therefore we are engaged in struggle for existence with mind and the material senses. That is our position. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi*-prakṛti-sthāni. Prakṛti-sthāni means material. Karṣati, hard struggle. So this is our position. And if you want to get out of it... If you are foolish, that "Whatever it is, that's... Let it... Let us enjoy now. Don't talk talk of all these...," oh, that is another thing. But those who are sensible, those who are actually after knowledge, those who actually want a solution of this material miserable condition of life, they must take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only remedy. Kṛṣṇa nāma kara āra saba miche (?). Simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All other things are simply illusion, false. Palaibe phat yei jo mache piche (?). You cannot escape. The death is awaiting always. You are given a chance. If you don't take, properly utilize use this chance, then another death is coming, and you are awaiting another type of body according to your karma. We are manufacturing our next body. This is our position. So this initiation means to enter into transcendental life. Why? Now, to make a solution, complete solution of this material existence. This is called illusion. Ādau gurvāśrayaṁ sad-dharma-prcchāt sādhu-mārganugamanam. You will read all these things in our book, the Nectar of Devotion, and Bhagavad-gītā also. You should read all these books and appear in the next year examination. Just like this year, so many boys have appeared. They're going to get the title Bhakti-śāstri. So utilize you life. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not for a particular place. Kṛṣṇa is not Indian. Kṛṣṇa says, "Everyone, in all special of life, are My sons." He's claiming to be the father of everyone. You don't reject Him, that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian," "Kṛṣṇa is Hindu," "Kṛṣṇa is something." No. He's for everyone. So if Kṛṣṇa says, "I am everyone's father," why should you reject Him? That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Father claiming, "You are my son," and if the son says, "No, you are not my father," then what can be done? That is another thing.

So this initiation means beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are already associating with our society. You have already learned some of the elementary knowledge, and you should be careful about the four principles of prohibition. What are those? You tell me what are our prohibitions? Huh?

Devotee: No meat, no eggs, no intoxicants...



Prabhupāda: Tell me loudly so that others hear.



Devotee: No meat...



*Prabhupāda: No meat*-eating. No, no, no meat, no meat-eating.



*Devotee: No meat*-eating.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: No eating of eggs...



*Prabhupāda: Meat is there. You cannot say, "No meat." (laughter) But no meat*-eating. Yes.



Devotee: No intoxicants, and no smoking.



*Prabhupāda: No intoxicant means including smoking. Smoking is also an intoxicant. Tea*-drinking is also intoxication. Coffee-drinking is also intoxication. So in order to come, the position of... And...



Devotee: No illicit sex.



*Prabhupāda: No meat*-eating, no eggs, no fish, no chicken, nothing of the sort. Simply vegetarian. Kṛṣṇa... Not even vegetarian; *Kṛṣṇa*-prasādam. We don't accept even vegetarian diet. We simply accept Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. So Kṛṣṇa-prasādam which is vegetable. Kṛṣṇa does not eat meat because He says in the Bhagavad-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa says that "Foodstuff prepared from vegetable kingdom, anyone offering Me with devotion and faith, I eat." He says, "I eat." So when Kṛṣṇa says He eats, so you should offer Him such nice prasādam so that He can eat and you take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. So you take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. And what is the other?



Devotee: No illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: No illicit sex. You cannot have illicit sex life. Here I have gotten married all these boys and girls. I don't allow to live as boyfriend, girlfriend. No. (laughter) That is not allowed(?) in our society. All these married girls and boys, they have been married by me. Perhaps that is the first instance that a sannyāsī is creating householders. (laughter) Sannyāsī creates sannyāsī. People are afraid of mixing with sannyāsī because they think that "A sannyāsī will make me a sannyāsī." But actually, that fear is not here. Here is a sannyāsī who is creating gṛhasthas.



Indian guest: Swamijī, (Hindi or Bengali)



*Prabhupāda: (Hindi or Bengali) brahmacārī. (Hindi or Bengali) illicit sex. Illicit sex, (Hindi or Bengali)... one should not have more than one woman or one man. That is nice. And therefore in the human society there is marriage. Not in the animal society. Married means that one should be satisfied with one woman and one man. That's all. And there is no question of divorce. Divorce is introduced by the modern rascals, but it is not sanctioned by any religious person. You see? So we are observing these rules: no illicit sex life, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. So all my students, they strictly follow these rules, and therefore they're advancing so quickly. Yes. You see the advancement so quickly because they follow my instruction. They follow very obedient, and they have therefore, by grace of Kṛṣṇa... Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23]. It is the statement of the Upaniṣad. "Anyone who has got unflinching faith in God and spiritual master..." Yasya deve parā bhaktir. Deve means God. Parā bhaktir, unflinching faith. Tathā gurau, and similarly, in guru. Tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ. To him all this Vedic knowledge becomes revealed automatically. So my students, all... Not only here in England, in London, in all places, if you go, if you travel, if you go to Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York, and many other places-I've got twenty branches*-in Japan, and Honolulu, so they are strictly following, and they are making wonderful stride. Now here, I came here for the first time. Before me I sent my six students, married students. They were only with me utmost for one year. I sent them, "You go to London and try." And they tried their best. So they have created some impression amongst the Londoners, which... One of my Godbrother came forty years ago. He could not do. He was a sannyāsī. But how these boys and girls have done? Because they are so sincere. Yes. The sincerity... In spiritual life, sincerity is the first qualification. Ārjavam. Ārjavaṁ saralaksa (?). Ārjavam. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam. These are the brahminical qualifications. One should be very sincere. Duplicity may be very good qualification for this material world, but duplicity in spiritual life is no qualification. So these boys, although they are very young-they're not even thirty; *within twenty*-five, twenty-six years, all the boys and girls-but they have made some impressions. Many Indians, they have openly admitted, "Swamijī, you have made wonderful. These boys and girls are very nice." So that is my pride, that these boys and girls following my instruction, and... I am not giving you, them any money or any bribe. No. (laughter) They are simply sincerely following my instruction. I am a mendicant. I have no money, I'm a beggar. But Kṛṣṇa is helping them. So you follow these principles. Then surely, success will be there.



Rūpa Gosvāmī has said that how one can make success in devotional life. So,

utsāhān dhairyāt niścayād

*tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt

*sato vṛtteḥ sādhu*-saṅge

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati



*These six principles, one must be very much enthusiastic: "Yes, in this life I shall complete my Kṛṣṇa consciousness business. I'll not wait for the next life. This life I shall finish." This is called utsāhān. And dhairya. Dhairya means patience. Not that "Sometimes I do not find that I'm making much improvement." But still, you should have patience. And niścayāt, with confidence. "Because we are following the standard rules and regulation, success is sure." That confidence must be there. Just like two plus two equal to four. That is a fact. Similarly, if you follow the principles as laid down in the śāstras, then success is sure. But if you don't follow, Kṛṣṇa says, yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhiṁ savāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. Anyone who does not follow rigid principle, then he cannot have success.



*So our principle is very simple. We avoid these four principles of restrictions and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, sixteen rounds, and take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Very happy life. So there is no difficulty, but if we simply follow the rules and regulation with faith and confidence... Utsāhān dhairyāt niścayād tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Tat-tat-karma means you have to follow the prescribed rules and regulation. Tat-tat-karma-pravar... Sato vṛtteḥ, and you must be honest, not dishonest. You accept before the spiritual master that "I shall do it," and if you do not do it, that's not good. You must do it. So sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge, and the association of devotees. Asādhu-sange, those who are not devotees, if you mix with them, then whatever you learned, you'll forget. Their influence is so bad. Because we are not very strong; *therefore there is every possibility that whatever we learn in bad association we may forget. Sato vṛtteḥ sādhu*-saṅge ṣaḍbhiḥ. Ṣaḍbhiḥ, by following these six principles, bhaktiḥ prasidhyati, your devotional life will be developed, you'll be enlightened.

utsāhān dhairyāt niścayād

*tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt

*sato vṛtteḥ sādhu*-saṅge

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati



So you follow, success is sure. And cooperate with your Godbrothers, learn how to act, and your life will be successful. Now chant. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)





710907IN.LON

Initiation Lecture Excerpt

-

London, September 7, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... They are trying to go to the nature. Just like there is a propaganda, nature means to become animal. They live like animals, naked. They have sex life on the street. They say it is freedom. But the rascals do not know there is no freedom at all. Where is freedom? So long you are under the grip of material nature, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9], where is freedom? By nature does not mean that you have got freedom. There is no freedom. We are all conditioned. Simply falsely we are thinking of freedom. It requires little brain. Where is freedom? Nobody wants to die, and where is the freedom not to die? Who has got the freedom? Nobody wants to become old, and where is the freedom? Everyone becomes old. But I have got the desire. Even old man, old woman tries to remain young by cosmetic help, to be good looking, and where is the freedom? By nature he is becoming bad looking. So there is no freedom. It is false idea, freedom. Nobody wants to die; death is sure. (aside:) He's sleeping. Nobody wants to become old; he's becoming old. Nobody wants to take birth... Of course, that is very higher stage. Jñānī, they want mukti; that is also not possible. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]? To stop death, to stop birth, is not possible unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one (sic) does not come to the position of loving Kṛṣṇa, there's no question of freedom. That is the nature's law. We have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Instead of loving Kṛṣṇa, we have habituated, we have developed a consciousness to love dog. Just like in your country they say, "Dog is the best friend." So instead of loving God, they have learned to love dog. But nature ways is that you have to forget loving dog, you have to come to the position to love God. That is nature's way. Therefore there is no freedom. There is no freedom. Just like a citizen becomes criminal. The criminal department, the prison, just to correct him: "Unless you become a good citizen, you'll have to be punished in this prison house." Similarly, our real position is to love God, to love Kṛṣṇa. Unless we are on that platform of loving God, the nature will give us trouble. There is no freedom. We should try to understand it. There's no question of freedom.



*So the time is up? No. [break] By initiated process one is elevated to the highest position in this material world. Brāhmaṇas' position, in this material world, is the highest position. So this is a training to come to the brahminical stage. Then one has to surpass that brahminical stage also. That is called pure goodness. Brāhmaṇa is goodness, but there is chance of being contaminated with passion and ignorance, because it is material world. But when (one) surpasses that brahminical stage and becomes pure Vaiṣṇava, then Kṛṣṇa becomes revealed to him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Vasudeva. Pure stage of life is called vāsudeva stage. Just like Vasudeva was father of Kṛṣṇa. That means when one is situated in the Vāsudeva stage, śuddha*-sattva, pure goodness, Kṛṣṇa is born. Kṛṣṇa born means Kṛṣṇa becomes visible, revealed. So this initiation process is gradually to raise a devotee to that platform. Go on. [break] There is a list of lowborn human beings. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ [SB 2.4.18]. So many. So even they are born in low-graded family, still, they can be elevated to the highest position by purificatory process. The example is given by Sanātana Gosvāmī: just like bell metal, if one can mix with it mercury, it becomes gold. Anyone can try it. Bell metal. Bell metal means mixture of copper and tin. That makes bell metal. Eighty percent copper, eighty percent tin. And along with it, if some suitable percentage of mercury is mixed, it becomes immediately gold. This chemical suggestion is there in the Vedic śāstras. So it is clear that they were quite aware of all these chemical method. So the example is given, as the base metal or bell metal can be transferred into gold by mixture of mercury under certain process, yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti kāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ... Rasa, rasa means mercury. Tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena. Similarly, any lowborn, it doesn't matter what he is, if proper initiation is conducted, then tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. He becomes a brāhmaṇa. Dvijatvam. Dvija means twice-born. Any man. In India there are many rascals who think that without being born in a brāhmaṇa family nobody can become brāhmaṇa. That is not the verdict of śāstra. Here is a verse in the Bhāgavata, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca papa [SB 2.4.18]. Not only all these mentioned, kirāta-hūṇāndhra... Hūṇa. Hūṇa class is found still on the northern side of Russia and Germany. When I went to Moscow I have seen, they're so much addicted to meat-eating. They're simply eating meat. In Russia also. They do not eat much fruits or vegetables, or not available. So these... Low class means the more they are addicted to meat-eating. Just like animals. They may be very strong. A tiger is also strong, but what is the use of it? Nobody cares for the tiger. Although tiger is very strong, one is afraid of it, but if you become a tiger what is the use of it? So this material civilization, they are trying to make this body tigerlike strong. They do not know that what is the usefulness of tiger. No use for... At least, for human society they are simply meant for being killed, shooting. So this demonic civilization is simply meant for being shooted by the laws of nature. Therefore you'll find revolution, war, in the western part of the world. They are being shooted by the laws of nature. They are thinking, "If we become tigerlike, our life is successful." But they do not know that if you become tigerlike, demon, you are just become suitable for being shooted. That's all. (laughter) They do not know this.

So it is not the aim of human life, to become a tiger. It is, the aim of human life is to become a devotee of Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇava. That is perfection of life. So we are, this movement, we are giving the highest benediction to the human society. They are becoming Vaiṣṇava. There is great necessity of Vaiṣṇava at the present moment because everyone has become śūdras. Kalau śūdra sambhava. And because it is, everywhere the śūdras are there, how there can be peace? They do not know. They have no brain how to make the society peaceful and prosperous. They are śūdras. They have no intelligence. There is necessity of creating brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇava. This movement is meant for that purpose. So be careful. Don't be turned again to śūdra and mlecchas. Go on making progress to become pure Vaiṣṇava. Then your life is successful and you'll give the best service to the human society. (aside:) You can... But what can be done? Still you have to remain a Vaiṣṇava. And perhaps you know it, the tigers cannot eat daily. Tiger life means almost starvation. You'll find, if you have ever seen a real photograph in forest of a tiger, the belly is... There is no food. They cannot get food. Because they are ferocious, by nature's law, it is not allowed by the..., he'll take food every day. No. After fifteen days, one month, gets a prey and eats the blood. They cannot eat. So tiger life is not very comfortable life. (laughter) You'll have to starve. And if you become Vaiṣṇava, three times you get nice prasādam. (laughter) This is practical. You see. (laughter) You see. All these tigers, they are eating in the restaurant. What they are eating? Nonsense. And come here and see what we are eating. Practical. There is no theoretical. Practical, see. And we have no practically doctor's bill. All these tigers, they have to to pay half the income to the doctors in medicine. So many tablets advertised, in your country especially. For this disease, one tablet, for that disease, one tablet. Dozens of tablet he has to take daily. And at the night also, sleeping tablet. (laughter) But our devotees, they get good opportunity, sleeping very nicely without any tablet. Go on. [break] The centers, they should learn how to conduct this priestly work. You have practically seen, and gradually, you should take charge of everything. All right. (end)



720402IN.SYD

Initiations

-

Sydney, April 2, 1972



*Prabhupāda: So being afraid, he wanted to be saved by his youngest son. Naturally we, anyone we love... But because the youngest son had the name Nārāyaṇa, the original Nārāyaṇa took notice of him, and he was saved, and he was immediately taken to the kingdom of God because he chanted the name of Nārāyaṇa. So those who are always chanting the holy name of God, they are in safety position. Safety position means next life, he is going back to home, back to Godhead. So this is an example that such a sinful man, if simply by chanting once at the time of his death-that was also desiring his youngest son*-he could get so much benefit, those who are chanting always the holy name of God, they should be always in safe condition. Māyā, or the material contamination, cannot touch him. But one thing, those who are being initiated, they are being freed from the resultant action of past sinful life. But they should be careful not to commit again sinful activities. Then they are safe. That's all.



Next man.

Śyāmasundara: Yajñeśvara dāsa. Yajñe, Yajñe.



Prabhupāda: Yajñeśvara.



Devotee: Yogeśvara.



Śyāmasundara: Not Yogeśvara. Yajñeśvara.



Prabhupāda: It is not required.



Śyāmasundara: That's all right.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Take it. You know all the rules and regulations, regulative principles?



Yajñeśvara: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: So your name is Yajñeśvara dāsa. Yajñeśvara means... This is yajña, so sacrifice, sacrificing or satisfying the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So yajña means sacrifice, and one who enjoys the resultant action of sacrifice... All our sacrifices should go to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His name is Yajñeśvara. [break] Whatever we shall do, as it is prescribed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yajñārthe karma anyatra lokaḥ ayam... [break] ...you do, act only for the satisfaction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then you are not entangled in the resultant action. Otherwise you'll be entangled. Entangled means for one resultant action we are now, we have got this body. Again we are going to take another material body. So this is a chain of birth and death. But if you dedicate your life for the satisfaction of the Yajñeśvara, then no more you are going to accept any material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After quitting this body, he does not accept any more material body. The spiritual body is already there within this material body. So those who are engaged in Yajñeśvara's service, they are giving up this material body and developing a spiritual body. The example can be given: just like an iron rod. It, put into the fire, it become warm, then warmer, warmer, and at last, it becomes red hot. When the iron rod is red hot, it is no longer iron rod; it is fire. Similarly, if you practice this spiritual way of life, the same way, gradually you will become completely spiritualized. Completely spiritualized means that no more material activities. That is possible. If we follow the process, we can turn our life from material contamination to pure spiritual life. And that will help us going back to home, back to Godhead. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Pārtha dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Pārtha. Come on. (devotee offers obeisances) So you know the rules and regulations? All right. Pārtha dāsa. Pārtha means Arjuna. Arjuna's mother's name was Pṛthā; therefore Arjuna is addressed sometimes as Pārtha. Pārtha means "son of Kuntī," in relationship with his mother's name. Kuntī was also great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So Pārtha dāsa, you are trying to become, follow the footsteps of Arjuna, how he was a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the meaning of Pārtha das. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on, next man.



Śyāmasundara: Śyāmānanda dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Hm. So you know the rules and regulations? You have heard already? And how many rounds you shall chant?



Śyāmānanda: Sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Sixteen, at least, yes. So Śyāmānanda. Śyāma means Kṛṣṇa. Śyāmasundaram. So one who takes pleasure in serving Kṛṣṇa, his name is Śyāmānanda. Ānanda means pleasure. We take pleasure in serving so many nonsense things. Sometimes we take pleasure in serving a dog, but the same service attitude, when transferred to Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. Our... Everyone is giving service. Somebody is giving service to a country, to his society, to his wife, the children. And if he has nothing to serve, then he keeps a pet dog and gives it service. So service we must give. That is our constitutional position. But that service is meant for rendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So long we remain forgetful where our service should be given, that is called material life. When we come to that consciousness, that "I have to serve Kṛṣṇa," that is spiritual life. That is difference between material life and spiritual life. We are serving. There is no doubt. We cannot be master. Any one of you who are present in this meeting, none of you can say that "I am the master." Every one of you, servant to somebody. That is our position. But that service is being rendered to mistaken places; therefore we are not happy, neither the person whom we are serving, they are happy. This is the position. But as soon as you serve Kṛṣṇa, Śyāmasundara, then you become happy, the whole world becomes happy. This is a great science. Try to understand. Go on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Hari-śauri. Hari-śauri dāsa. Hari-śauri?



Prabhupāda: What is the spelling?



*Śyāmasundara: H-a-r*-i s-a-u-r-i.



Prabhupāda: Hari-śauri. So you know the principles, regulative principles?



Hari-śauri: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. How many rounds you will chant?



Hari-śauri: Sixteen rounds a day.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So your name is Hari-śauri. Śauri means learned scholar, and Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. "One who is a learned scholar in the science of Kṛṣṇa." It is a great science. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we don't take it very insignificantly. It is a great science. And Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Anyone who knows this science, he becomes spiritual master. It doesn't matter what he is." He has actually said,



kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*Kibā śūdra. Śūdra is considered to be the lowest in the civilized society, śūdra. No, if not lowest, lower, lower class, worker class, no intelligence. Kibā śūdra kibā... And vipra means brāhmaṇa, the most intelligent class of the human society. So either one is a śūdra-śūdra means born in a śūdra family-or vipra, similarly born in a vipra family... Kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene. Nyāsī means sannyāsī. Sannyāsa order is the topmost order in social division. So whatever he may be, the only qualification-if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa*-he becomes spiritual master. So śauri, one who is learned, Hari-śauri, one who is learned in the science of Kṛṣṇa. So try to be a learned scholar in Kṛṣṇa science and deliver the whole world. Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Next man. Come on. Take your... You are forgetting real thing. Oh, you have got it? Oh, thank you.



*Nanda*-kumāra: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this dark one is for this boy.



Prabhupāda: Which boy?



*Nanda*-kumāra: The dark colored beads belong to...



Prabhupāda: This one?



*Nanda*-kumāra: The bigger one.



Prabhupāda: So what is his name?



Śyāmasundara: Ray? Rājghana dāsa.



Prabhupāda: What is the spelling?



*Śyāmasundara: R*-a-j-g-h-a-n-a.



Prabhupāda: So you are classified amongst the kings, Rājghana. Yes. So anyone who is a devotee is more than a king. You know what are the regulative principles?



Rājghana: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Take this. You are Rājghana. Next man, come on.



Śyāmasundara: Rājendra dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Which one? Which? So your name is Rājendra. Rājendra is the name of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. He was addressed by Śukadeva Gosvāmī as Rājendra. Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ.



śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

*apaśyatām ātma*-tattvaṁ

*gṛheṣu gṛha*-medhinām

[SB 2.1.2]



*This king, at the time of his death, he inquired, "Now what shall I hear? My life is only for seven days." He was a very magnanimous emperor of this world. Unfortunately, he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy to die within seven days, but he did not take any reaction. He submitted. And at the time of his death, because there were seven days only, so he wanted to do something which may emancipate him. So the Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he arrived in the meeting and he advised him to hear about Kṛṣṇa. In this connection he spoke this verse, śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ: [SB 2.1.2] "For ordinary man, there are many, many hundreds and thousands of subject matters for hearing. But this, these engagement are for those who are apaśyatām ātma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2], persons who do not know what is he, what he is, what is self. They have got many things to hear. But one who is interested for self-realization-that is the only business of human life*-for him, he should only hear about Kṛṣṇa." Therefore he was addressed as Rājendra. Try to become like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take this. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Next.



Śyāmasundara: Durvāsā Muni dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Acchā. This one? White. So Durvāsā Muni was a great yogi, Durvāsā Muni. And amongst all the yogis, the bhakta*-yogī, the devotee, is the greatest. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*Yogi, there are many yogis. They have got very exalted power, extraordinary power. Just like this Durvāsā Muni. He once traveled all over the space. Not only within this universe*-he traveled outside the universe in the spiritual world, and he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He was such a powerful yogi. And he took only one year to come back again. So still, he was defeated by a devotee. He was very angry. Anyway, he was a great yogi. And anyone, a great personality, we should ask his blessings for making advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. Next.



*Devotee: (to guests:) We hope that you will all stay for a tremendous twenty*-course feast after the ceremony.



So please be patient.

Prabhupāda: No, those who are going, you can give them prasādam. They should not wait.



Devotee: All right. For those of you... Prabhupāda, can we serve out now?



Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Those who are going, they must take. Yes. Next? Who is? Who is next?



Śyāmasundara: Who is next?



Prabhupāda: Come on.



Śyāmasundara: Wally. It's Vyāsadeva dāsa.



Devotees: Oooḥ!



Prabhupāda: Vyāsadeva had also long hairs and beard also. (laughter) But he is without beard.



Śyāmasundara: He is a professor also.



Prabhupāda: Oh. And Vyāsadeva is the greatest professor. He is the authority of Vedic literature. All right, very good name, Vyāsadeva dāsa: to become the servant of the greatest authority of Vedic literature. Thank you. Come on. That... They will be married later on.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. This is Kalki dāsa and Ambikā devī dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Now, with this dress you look so beautiful. This Vedic dress is also nice, very beautiful. It increases the beauty hundred times by this dress. So you know the rules and regulations? This is hers?



Śyāmasundara: Are those your beads?



Prabhupāda: So chant with your husband. That's all. Thank you.



Śyāmasundara: Her name. Her name. Kalki devī dāsī.



*Prabhupāda: Ah, Kalki devī. Kalki is the incarnation. The last incarnation of Kṛṣṇa is Kalki. Kalki will come on this planet about 400,000's of years after. But his name and address is also given. (laughter) That is śāstra. Not... It is no laugh. Don't laugh. That is śāstra, that they can speak of future which will happen hundreds and millions of years after. That is mentioned, "This Kalki avatāra incarnation will come. He will appear in a place whose name is Sambhalapur." That is still in India. "And his father's name will be Viṣṇu*-joshi." His father's name and his place of birth is mentioned in the śāstra. So Kalki is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, and that means you are servant of, maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Next. Come on.



Śyāmasundara: This is Ambikā devī dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Which one. Huh? This one?



Śyāmasundara: No. This is for a boy named Dave.



Prabhupāda: So Ambikā is the name of, another name of goddess Durgā, the material nature. So material nature is also another energy of Kṛṣṇa, God. So to become her maidservant means she will help you to approach Kṛṣṇa. Thank you.



*Nanda*-kumāra: Śrīla Prabhupāda? There was one too few sets of beads, so tonight you can chant on one new set and give to this girl. These belong to one boy.



Prabhupāda: All right. What is the name? What is her name?



Śyāmasundara: Lakṣmaṇā devī dāsī. Lakṣmaṇā.



*Prabhupāda: Lakṣmaṇā. Sulakṣmaṇā. Lakṣmaṇā. Lakṣmaṇā was the daughter of Duryodhana. She was married with Kṛṣṇa's son, and there was some misunderstanding. The kṣatriya families, whenever there was marriage, there was fight also. That means they exhibited the valor of kṣatriyas. So Lakṣmaṇā became the daughter*-in-law of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You can take it.



Śyāmasundara: Dvaipāyana?



Prabhupāda: So Dvaipāyana is another name of Vyāsadeva. You know the rules and regulations? All right. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So now you can get these married.



*Nanda*-kumāra: There is one more boy.



Śyāmasundara: Sahadeva. Sahadeva dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Yes, Sahadeva dāsa. That is his beads? Oh, all right, you can give it, then again chanting. So you know the rules and regulations?



Sahadeva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Sahadeva, the youngest brother of Arjuna. That's all. Our names are so many, but the real name is dāsa, dāsa, "servant." Our position is servant of the servant. We don't want to become master of the master. Our position is servant of the servant. Gopī*-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. The more we become servant of the servant, the more we become advanced. It is very difficult to understand from material stand of... Here everyone wants to become master of the master. And the spiritual world, they want to become servant of the servant. That is a bigger position. So as we make advance in spiritual life, we understand this. So, that's all right. No. No. You perform the marriage, that change, and get them promise. Yes. Yes, take it.



So general instruction is that this marriage is being taken place in front of Kṛṣṇa, His devotees. There is no written agreement, but this promise is agreement, that none of you who are going to be married, there is no question of separation. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness marriage does not mean sense gratification. No. The marriage is for producing nice children, Kṛṣṇa conscious children. Because at the present moment the population is not being produced very nicely; therefore there is disturbance of peace all over the world. But if there are Kṛṣṇa conscious children, they'll grow up and they will possess all good qualities. So peace automatically will come if people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, because they become highly qualified, without committing any sinful activities. If such population is there in the world, there is no question of disturbance. Everyone will be peace, peaceful and happy. So our marriage, Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution encouraging marriage, on this ground: not to produce cats and dogs, but to produce highly qualified devotees. So you should always remember that. And there is no... Once married, there is no question of divorce or separation. That you should remember. We don't allow any divorce and separation. The husband and wife, there may be sometimes disagreement, but according to Vedic literature, when there is fight or disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected. Nobody take it seriously. The Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says,

*aja*-yuddhe muni-śrāddhe prabhate megha-ḍumbare

*dampatiḥ kalahe caiva bāmbhārambhe laghu*-kriyā



*Aja*-yuddhe: "Fighting of the goats, and a śraddhā ceremony performed by the sages in the forest, and sounding in the sky, vibration of cloud, rumbling of the cloud early in the morning, and similarly, fight between husband and wife-don't take it seriously." You have got experience that rumbling early in the morning-never there is heavy shower of rain. There may be very great rumbling, but the result is very small, maybe some drizzling. Similarly, a husband and wife may fight, but if you don't give them any seriousness, they'll mitigate. That is the process. But in the Western countries, in the name of liberty, so many family lives are dismantled simply by this divorce case. So according to Vedic civilization, there is no divorce. Once united, it cannot be disunited in any condition of life. That you should follow. That is our first. So I think you promise this, all of you? Say yes.



Devotees: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. That's all. Now you change. And you instruct them. First of all... First of all, accept that, that "I take charge of..." Why do you forget? So why don't you do that? I tell you. (yelling) So why don't you do it? Do it.



Devotee: Do you, Raghunātha dāsa, do you take Gaurāṅgī devī to be your bride, to protect her, to help her advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and promise that there shall never be... (end)





720406IN.MEL

Deity Installation and Initiation

-

Melbourne, April 6, 1972



*Prabhupāda: ...or one is situated in his external existence, if he happens to remember Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, puṇḍarīkākṣam, sa bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ, he immediately becomes purified internally and externally. So you are getting initiation in this auspicious day when Lord Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, His eternal consort, is now being situated, er, established, installed, on this auspicious moment, and you will be initiated to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in the beginning. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. As it is indicated in this verse, one who remembers the Supreme Personality of Godhead always, he remains always purified, śuciḥ. Śuciḥ. Śuci means... Another meaning of śuci is brāhmaṇa, purified. A brāhmaṇa... According to nature's division, there are four classes of men: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, and the śūdra. Brāhmaṇa means the intellectual class of men who knows hygienic rules, keeps himself always purified and engaged in studying Vedic literatures for understanding this world, God, himself, the interrelation. They are called brāhmaṇa. And the kṣatriya means those who live their life under the instruction of the brāhmaṇa but they are engaged in administration of the state, they are called kṣatriyas. Then vaiśyas, still less intelligent class. The brāhmaṇa is the first intelligent class of men, the kṣatriyas, the next intelligent class of men, and the vaiśyas, or the mercantile class of men interested in money by trade, commerce, agriculture, industry, they are called vaiśyas. So next, the last class is called śūdra. Śūdra means workers. They haven't got much intelligence, neither they can work as administrator or traders but they work and get some salary. They are called śūdras. So śuci means the first*-class intellectual class of men. So anyone who is always chanting the holy name of God and keeps himself purified, he is śuci. Śuci means the first-class purified intelligent class of men. So they are called brāhmaṇas in Sanskrit. So it is not that the brāhmaṇas are to be found in India only. Any intelligent class of men, anyone who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is brāhmaṇa. In this initiation ceremony there will be some persons who will be initiated for chanting the holy name, and some of them will be initiated for the second time. They were initiated before for chanting the holy name; now they will be initiated with a sacred thread. Sacred thread means recognition of complete brahminical culture.



So a brāhmaṇa is, the qualification of brāhmaṇa is,

satya śama dama titikṣa ārjavam

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam

*brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam

[Bg. 18.42]



*So a brāhmaṇa should be truthful in any circumstances. He will never speak lie. Truthful, satya. Śama. Śama means keeping the mind always in equilibrium. And dama, dama means keeping the senses under control. Śama dama titikṣa. Titikṣa means toleration. There may be so many tribulations, but a brāhmaṇa is supposed to be very, very tolerant. Toleration. The first*-class example of toleration in the Western country: Lord Jesus Christ. He was being crucified; still, he did not take any steps. If he wanted, he could take steps, but he was tolerating. So this is the sign of brahminical symptom. Titikṣa ārjava. Ārjava means simplicity. A brāhmaṇa is not supposed to be crooked and duplicity. No. Simple. It is said even the enemy wants to know something from him, he will clearly say, "It is this." That is called simplicity. Then jñānam. Jñānam means knowledge, full knowledge. And vijñānam means scientific knowledge, practical application in life. That is called vijñānam. Āstikyam. Āstikyam means to have full faith in Vedic literature. That is called āstikyam. These are the signs of brāhmaṇa. So those who are going to be initiated with the sacred thread, they must always remember to follow all these rules and regulations. We should always remember that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for purifying the human society. Unless the human society is purified, there will be so many problems and disturbances in the human society. At least a certain percentage of the human society must be brāhmaṇa; otherwise the society cannot make any progress in spiritual life. And if we cannot make progress in spiritual life, then our human life is frustrated. After 8,400,000 species of life, evolution, one gets this human form of life. And if he does not properly utilize it, then he is committing suicide.



So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the greatest welfare activity for the human society because this movement is educating everyone how to fulfill the aim of life. The purport of the verse:

apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ



śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now give them beads. (chants japa) These flowers, these flowers you can lay down. Flowers, flowers, yes. Flower, flower, here flower. Yes. This is not for Deity? This is not for the Deity? No, you can lay down, lay down on the floor, on the... Yes.

Devotee (1): They were for the wedding.



Prabhupāda: Wedding? There is wedding also? All right. Keep it.



Devotee (2): I have some flowers for the... (Prabhupāda chants japa)



Prabhupāda: So you know the rules and regulations? What is that?



Devotee (3): Four rules.



Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.



*Devotee (3): No meat*-eating...



Prabhupāda: Speak loudly.



*Devotee (3): No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling...



Prabhupāda: No intoxication.



Devotee (3): ...and no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Including tea, coffee, cigarettes, everything. No more. Is that all right? And how many rounds you will chant? At least sixteen rounds. You'll begin from here, come here. Don't cross. Again begin from here. In this way, sixteen rounds at least. So what is the name? Oh, list.



Śyāmasundara: Dhaumya dāsa.



Prabhupāda: What is his original name?



Śyāmasundara: Doug.



Prabhupāda: Dhaumya. Your name is Dhaumya dāsa, Dhaumya dāsa, one of the commander in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, Dhaumya. (laughter) Don't laugh. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now bow down here. (chants japa) Chant. You'll get bead, bead bag. Keep it in that. Yes. (chants japa) You know what are the rules? What are the four rules?



*Devotee (4): No intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling, and no illicit sex life.



Prabhupāda: So how many rounds you will chant?



Devotee (4): At least sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the name?



Śyāmasundara: Jayadharma dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Your name is Jayadharma dāsa. Yes. He is one of the ācāryas in the Madhva*-Gauḍīya sampradāya. Bow down and take. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go on chanting. Go on chanting like this. (japa) You know the rules? Yes.



*Cheryl: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling, and no illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: And how many rounds you will chant?



Cheryl: Sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Minimum, yes. What is your name?



Cheryl: Cheryl.



Śyāmasundara: Satyavatī.



Prabhupāda: Satyavatī dāsī. Satyavatī dāsī was one of the queens of Kṛṣṇa. Bow down. (japa) What it is you have got? Do you know rules?



*Girl Devotee (5): No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxicants.



Prabhupāda: What is your name?



Girl Devotee (5): Leone (?).



Śyāmasundara: Mekhalā dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Mekhalā dāsī, belt of the universe. Mekhalā. (japa) Mix it nicely and distribute. (japa) You wait. Stop(?) I have sent this.(?) You have not signed? If it is difficult, there is no...(?) Yes. All right. What is your name? You know the rules?



*Girl Devotee (6): No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, intoxication, and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Devadarśana dāsī, "who can see all the demigods." Right hand. (japa) Give them garland. After initiation they'll exchange it. Give them. Give them on the... Yes. On their neck. You can sit down here. Where is that red powder? Get some. You sit there. He sits here. After changing garlands they will change place and the bride will give the powder and cover her head. No, the bride, bridegroom, yes. Come on. Come on. What is the name?



Śyāmasundara: Sanaka dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Sanaka dāsa. Know rules and regulations? What is that?



*Sanaka: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling and no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: That's good. And how many rounds?



Sanaka: Minimum of sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Yes, minimum. Now get them promised. You sit down here and ask him to... "I, such and such..."



Śyāmasundara: Henceforward from this day...



Prabhupāda: Let him promise. You promise, "I..."



Śyāmasundara: You, Sanaka dāsa...



Prabhupāda: Say, "I, Sanaka dāsa..."



Sanaka: I, Sanaka dāsa...



Prabhupāda: "...take charge of you..."



Śyāmasundara: "...take charge of you..." (girl laughs)



Prabhupāda: Why you are laughing? It is laughing thing? I told you first. Don't take anything very lenient. Very serious.



Śyāmasundara: "I, Sanaka dāsa, (Sanaka dāsa repeating) do hereby promise from this day henceforward to always protect and take for my wife Devadarśana dāsī."



Prabhupāda: Yes. And you say that "I shall serve you..."



Śyāmasundara: Now, "I, Devadarśana dāsī, (Devadarśana repeating) do from this day henceforward, I do promise to always serve and obey my husband, Sanaka dāsa."



Prabhupāda: Now change the garland. Now give her the vermillion, red powder. Cover her head.



Śyāmasundara: Cover her head with the sari.



Prabhupāda: Do like that. Now you come this side.



Śyāmasundara: Now you change places.



Prabhupāda: So you have agreed that there is no question of divorce in your life? In any circumstances you cannot separate. Is that all right? You also agree? You cannot separate. There is no question of divorce. Even if you fight, you can remain in one temple, he can remain, but there is no question of divorce. So take in mind. That's all. Now have this...



Śyāmasundara: Er, the Hanumān sannyāsa...



Prabhupāda: After this yajña. After this.



Śyāmasundara: They have a gift for you. Shall I give it now?



Prabhupāda: Yes. All right. Bow down. Now begin the fire. Give help. Ignite the fire. Come on. First of all... First of all... Burn, fire... Very fine. Oh, this is not. Very fine one put in the beginning. Yes, like that. (japa) Have you got little straw?



Devotee (7): Straw?



Prabhupāda: Yes, that will help. Oh, you do not know. You never done it.



Devotee (7): Yes.



Prabhupāda: How is that, it is...? Do. Do. Do. Yes. Let him. Let him do one more. Now you can put it. Simply... That's all right. Don't... Yes. Go on. Yes, like that. There is no need of... Do that. Yes. Yes, like that. Go on. You know the mantras? Then you can do. Go on putting fuel in. Yes. Yes. Like that.



Devotee (7): Should I begin to chant...



Prabhupāda: Yes. [Devotee (7) chants standard prayers for fire sacrifice with devotees and Śrīla Prabhupāda repeating and Śrīla Prabhupāda giving instructions on pouring the ghee]



Prabhupāda: Now stand with banana, all. Take the banana and stand up. You also take.



*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



(repeats mantra twice more)



Svāhā. Now put. Put those banana one after another. Put. (end)



720430IN.TOK

Initiations and Lecture

Sannyāsa Initiation of Sudāmā dāsa

-

Tokyo, April 30, 1972



Prabhupāda: ...no intoxication. All right. Your name is Tukarāma dāsa, a great saintly person.



Sudāmā: Tukarāma.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. T*-u-k-a-r-a-m-a.



Sudāmā: Tukarāma dāsa.



Devotee (1): Take the beads.



Sudāmā: Take in the right hand.



Prabhupāda: Take, the right. (devotee offers obeisances) You know the rules, four prohibitive rules?



Devotee (2): Pardon?



Prabhupāda: Four prohibitive. What is that?



Devotee (2): No intoxication, no gambling, no eating of meat, fish, or eggs, no illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



Śyāmasundara: Sañjaya dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: So your spiritual name, Sañjaya dāsa. S*-a-n-j-a-y-a. Sañjaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee (2): Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Then next, Sudāmā you take, change your cloth.



Śyāmasundara: There is one Gāyatrī. You want to give a Gāyatrī now?



Prabhupāda: I will do there.



Devotee (2): Later.



Prabhupāda: Gāyatrī I shall give there.



Śyāmasundara: He'll give later.



*Prabhupāda: Touch there. There on the altar first of all. Take this. This mantra. Etām, sa āsthāya, parātma*-niṣṭhām, upāsitām, pūrva, tamaiḥ, mahadbhiḥ, aham, tariṣyāmi, duranta, pāram, tamo, mukundāṅghri, niṣeyevayaiva. (repeats several times word for word with devotees repeating) Now you read the balance. What is it?



Sudāmā: The meaning?



Prabhupāda: Meaning and everything else.



*Sudāmā: "Etām*-this; *sa āsthāya*-taking shelter of; *parātmā*-the Supreme Personality of Godhead; *niṣṭhām*-firm conviction; *upāsitām*-worshiped by; *pūrvatamaiḥ*-by previous ācāryas; *mahadbhiḥ*-great; *aham*-myself; *tariṣyāmi*-shall cross over; *duranta*-pāram-insurmountable; *tamo*-the darkness of ignorance; *mukundāṅghri*-the lotus feet of Mukunda, who gives all liberations; *niṣevayaiva*-simply by worshiping."



Prabhupāda: Then go on.



Sudāmā: Translation: "I shall cross over the insurmountable ocean of darkness of ignorance simply by taking shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Mukunda, who gives all kinds of liberations and was worshiped by many great previous ācāryas."



Prabhupāda: So? Read on.



*Sudāmā: Purport. "There are sixty*-four kinds of rendering service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, out of which, to accept the uniform dress of a tridaṇḍī-sannyāsa is also an important item. One who accepts this order of life, surely by rendering service unto the Supreme Lord, becomes eligible to cross over the insurmountable ocean of ignorance. All previous sages used to accept such order of life, and later ācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, adopted this order of life and firm conviction in the matter of devotional service. Those who are unalloyed devotees, they add one more staff along with the original three. This extra one is representation of the living entity. There is another sect who are known as ekadaṇḍī sect. They misunderstand the purpose of tridaṇḍa, and by such deviation, Śrīvāsa Swami sannyāsa, who proclaimed to belong to the Viṣṇu Svāmī sect, turned to be impersonalists and follow the footsteps of Śaṅkarācārya, accepting only the ekadaṇḍa. Instead of naming themselves out of the 108 names of Vaiṣṇava sannyāsīs, this Śrīvāsa Swami sect accepts ten names of the sannyāsī, following Śaṅkarācārya. Lord Caitanya, although in terms of the then practice, accepted ekadaṇḍī sannyāsa order, by His acceptance of tridaṇḍi sannyāsa is understood. This mantra was first chanted by a learned brāhmaṇa of Avantipur after being very much disgusted in this materialistic way of life. This happened long, long years ago because it is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam, which was composed by Vyāsadeva at least five thousand years ago. So it is to be concluded, therefore, that this tridaṇḍī sannyāsīn order is coming down since a time long, long years ago. And within five hundred years of time Lord Caitanya adopted this order of life. And in the latest years His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Thakur Prabhupāda adopted it personally and made many of his disciples tridaṇḍī sannyāsīs. We are also following his footsteps, and the purport of this mantra is that the ekadaṇḍī sannyāsī is devoid of paramaṁ niṣṭha, which is explained above. In other words, impersonalists cannot have any faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they prefer to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we do not find any mention of ekadaṇḍa sannyāsa. This tridaṇḍa sannyāsa is accepted, therefore, as standard. Lord Caitanya accepts Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the supreme authority. Under the circumstances, persons who accept Lord Caitanya as ekadaṇḍī sannyāsī are mistaken. So following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya, still the tridaṇḍī sannyāsīs are in existence, keeping the sacred thread and śikhā intact, distinct from the Māyāvādī ekadaṇḍī sannyāsīs, who give up the sacred thread and śikhā. They have no inclination to render service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Being very much disgusted by the materialistic way of life, they do not understand the purpose of the sannyāsa order. But those who are strictly followers of the Vaiṣṇava principles, they do not accept the Māyāvādī way of sannyāsa. In the sect of Lord Caitanya, the most venerable learned scholar known as Gadādhara Pandit Gosvāmī accepted this tridaṇḍī sannyāsa order, and he offered this facility to his disciple known as Śrī Mādhava Upadhyaya. This Mādhava Ācārya is the origin of the Vallabhācārya sect. One of the six Gosvāmīs, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, who is the authority of Vaiṣṇava regulations, was initiated by another tridaṇḍī sannyāsī known as Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. Therefore this sannyāsī order is completely in pursuance of Vaiṣṇava authority. Klīṁ gopījana-bhāvāśrayāya namaḥ."



*Prabhupāda: This is the extra mantra for you. Klīṁ gopījana*-vallabhāya svāhā. Hm? No. Klīṁ gopījana-bhāvāśrayāya namaḥ.



*Sudāmā: Klīṁ gopījana*-bhāvāśrayāya namaḥ.



*Prabhupāda: So sannyāsa, sannyāsa, the derivative meaning is sat*-nyās. Sat means the Supreme Truth. Oṁ tat sat. Here in this material world everything is relative truth. Nothing is Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Absolute Truth is a person like us, but He is the Supreme Person. That is the Vedic information. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Nitya means eternal. We living entities, we are all eternal. That is very nicely explained in Bhagavad-gītā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Those who under the impression that after finishing annihilation of this body, everything is finished, they are not in perfect knowledge. The living entity continues to exist either in this body or in another body. Just like very simple example, we can understand. All of us sitting here, we had a small baby body. I existed, you existed, in that baby body, but that body is not now existing, but I am existing. I know that "I existed in a baby body, I existed in a boyhood body, I existed in a youthhood body. Now I am existing in this old age body. Similarly, when this body is finished, I shall again exist in another body." This is the right conclusion. Therefore na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. After the destruction of this body, ātmā, or the spirit soul, is not destroyed or annihilated. He continues.



*So ātmā vastu, that ātmā is also part and parcel of the Supreme Truth sat. Now at the present moment I am given to this misunderstanding that "I am this body." Sannyāsa means to give up this false concept of bodily concept of life and surrender, nyāsa. Nyāsa means renounce-renounce everything for the sake of Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Person. This is called sannyāsa. Actually this is the beginning of my liberated activities. Sannyāsa means that living entity is acting. Living entity for a second cannot be inactive. You know that even in sleeping we are acting: we dream, we go somewhere, we see something. Although the body is silent, I, the spirit soul, I create another subtle body, and with that subtle body I create so many things and try to enjoy it or suffer it. Therefore a living entity is not inactive even for a second. So these activities, when they are performed in the bodily concept of life-"I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Japanese," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian"-in this way, so long we act on this bodily concept of life, it is called material existence. But when we understand that we are not this body-"I am spirit soul"*-and on this understanding I understand that I am the part and parcel of the Supreme Absolute Person, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ situation.

*It is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Now, this boy is very tender age. He has renounced this material life. He has got young wife, but still, he has given up with mutual consent. The wife also has agreed that "You take sannyāsa for the service of Kṛṣṇa." So this is actually renouncement. Young boy, young man, everyone wants young wife, enjoy this material life. But he has renounced everything. This is great sacrifice. Instead, in spite of presence of young wife and facilities for material enjoyment, one who renounces for the sake of serving Kṛṣṇa, he is sannyāsī. He is called sannyāsa. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. For better service he ceases to act materially. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. That is sannyāsī. He is therefore called gosvāmī. His name is, from this day, Sudāmā das Gosvāmī. Because go means the senses, and svāmī means the master. At the present moment, in the materialistic concept of life, everyone is servant of the senses. Everyone acts by the dictation of the senses; *therefore they can be called, in other words, as godāsa, servant of the senses. Instead of becoming servant of the senses, one has to become the master of the senses. That is called gosvāmī, master of the senses. So how to become master of the senses? Senses are very strong. How one can become master? The simple method is when one engages the senses in the service of the Supreme Lord, it is automatically controlled. It is automatically controlled. The senses want... Just like your mind. If your mind is absorbed in certain subject, you cannot divert your mind to another subject. Sometimes, if your mind is engaged in some serious business, you are thinking and some friend has come before you, you cannot see him. He asks you, "Mr. such and such, don't you see me?" "Oh, you have come?" That means the senses, the chief sense is the mind. If you can engage your mind to Kṛṣṇa, in the service of Kṛṣṇa*-sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]-then your senses are automatically controlled-because mind is the chief sense. Under the mind, all other senses, namely the eyes, the ears, the nose, the hands, the legs, they work. If one is absent-minded, he cannot work nicely because mind is absent or not in order. Therefore our method of controlling the senses is to engage the senses in the service of the Lord.

*The first engagement should be that mind should be always absorbed in thoughts of Kṛṣṇa. Always engaged. These boys, they are always engaged. Just like in offering arcana to the Deities from early morning up to ten o'clock at night, and then they go to rest. Again rise early in the morning. So somebody is engaged n cleansing the temple, somebody is engaged in dressing the Deity, somebody is engaged in cooking for the Deity, somebody is engaged going in Tokyo city for distributing literature, somebody is performing kīrtana here, somebody is reading our various books. In this way we have got twenty-five hours engagement instead of twenty-four hours. So mind cannot go outside Kṛṣṇa. That is called Kṛṣṇa conscious. We don't allow the mind go out of Kṛṣṇa's service. And this is sannyāsa. Practically anyone who is engaged in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, he is a sannyāsī. Never mind what is his dress. He may be in a dress of a family man, householder, or he may be in the dress of a sannyāsī-everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Therefore in the essential sense, everyone is sannyāsī. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī [Bg. 6.1]. The Lord Himself is giving the definition of sannyāsī. What is that? Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. Karma means action. Whatever you do, there must be some reaction. Whatever you do. You do something very pious or do something which is vicious, there will be some resultant action. But if you don't take shelter of the resultant action, anāśritaḥ karma, karma-phalaṁ. Karma-phalaṁ means resultant action of your activities. You don't take shelter of that action, good or bad... Kāryam: "It is my duty." Kāryam karma karoti yaḥ: "In this way, one who acts..." Sa sannyāsī. Everyone is trying to enjoy the result of his action. Suppose you are doing some business, and you get very huge profit. So you take the profit for enjoyment. But one who does not take the profit, he is sannyāsī. He may be engaged in business. He may make profit, thousand dollars per month or more than that, but he does not take even a paisa or even a cent out of it*-he is a sannyāsī. So even a man in ordinary worldly life, a businessman, or in any other occupation, he can also become sannyāsī provided he does not enjoy the profit out of it. Then where the profit will go? It will be thrown away in the street? No. It should be given to Kṛṣṇa. So the real purpose is that whatever you do, yat karoṣi, whatever you eat, yat aśnāsi, whatever you sacrifice, yad juhoṣi, yad dadāsi, whatever you give in charity... Because these things are ordinary activities. Kṛṣṇa says, kuruṣva tad mad-arpanam: "You give Me that. If you are eating, the food must be given to Me first. If you are working, the resultant profit should be given to Me. Or even loss, that is also given to Me." Yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi yaj juhoṣi: [Bg. 9.27] "And whatever sacrificing," dadāsi yat, "whatever you give in charity, so give it to Me." This is sannyāsa. There is no, I mean to say, prohibition to act in any way. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, he was a warrior, fighter, but he fought for Kṛṣṇa; therefore he is a sannyāsī. Although he appears to be a householder, fighting for his own interest, but he was declining to fight for his own interest. When Kṛṣṇa convinced him that "This fighting is arranged by Me, Kṛṣṇa, and I want this fighting," then Arjuna fought. He understood that "It is to be fought for Kṛṣṇa, not for my self interest." And because he fought for Kṛṣṇa, he is a sannyāsī.

So this is the technique of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and anyone who is ready to act for Kṛṣṇa, not for his personal sake, he is a sannyāsī. So actually anyone in this institution, they are all acting for Kṛṣṇa, but this sannyāsa order is accepted in pursuance of the great ācāryas, as we have already explained, great ācāryas. So for preaching work, especially in India, preachers are generally sannyāsī. And I know that even in Buddha philosophy, a Buddhist, a person following Buddhist religion, he has to take sannyāsa at least for some time. Is it not? Any Buddhists here?

Devotee: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: He has to take sannyāsa for some years. Again he may come back to householder life. So sannyāsa order is Vedic order. Lord Buddha also appeared in India, and he inaugurated the Buddha philosophy. That is also sannyāsa. Bhikṣu. They are called bhikṣu, Buddha*-bhikkhu. So this is a spiritual order. Otherwise, anyone who is acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a sannyāsī. That is, practical sannyāsa. So our Sudāmā das Goswami Mahārāja, from this day will... He is already engaged in preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He will now take special advantage and preach all over the world Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make his life successful. That is the mantra: etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām; *parātma*-niṣṭhām. Parātma-niṣṭhā means working for the Supreme, niṣṭhām. Adhyāsitāṁ pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ. Pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ, many great ācāryas. So we are coming through paramparā system. So we at the present moment we are Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He took sannyāsa. His spiritual master, Īśvara Purī, was also a sannyāsī. His spiritual master, Mādhavendra Purī was sannyāsī. My spiritual master was Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja. He was also sannyāsī. I am also sannyāsī. So in this way, by the disciplic succession, we accept this sannyāsa order. That is a formality. We have to follow the formality. And this tridaṇḍī sannyāsa, this daṇḍa, rod, is consisting of four rods. Three rods means the body, mind... Karmaṇā manasā vācā. Karmaṇā means working; manasā, by thinking; *vācā, by talking. Everything should be for Kṛṣṇa. And there is another rod that is the living entity. So within this packet there are four rods, symbolizing mind, body, and words. Word is very important thing. Now preaching will be through words, by presenting words. Vaikuṇṭha guṇanuvarṇane. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. Vacāṁsi, our talks should be always engaged in describing the glories of the Lord. That is the proper use of our talking. Otherwise, there are frogs also, they are vibrating, "kakaka, kakaka, kakaka, kakaka." That kind of vibration is simply inviting death. You know in every country there are frogs, especially in rainy season they enjoy. They think, "We are now enjoying life," by "kakaka kakaka." So the result is that the snake, in the darkness they cannot see where is the frog, but by the sound he can understand, "Here is a frog," and he comes and swallows it. So our, this talking, nonsense talking whole day and night-in the assembly, in the conference, in the business, in so many ways we are talking, "kakaka, kakaka"*-the result is that we are inviting death very soon. But if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra or engage our talking for glorifying the Lord, then death cannot touch. Death cannot touch means we are making our way to become immune from death. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Those who are talking nonsense, they will have to accept some sort of body, either human body or animal body or tree body or demigod's body. He has to take any body. But those who are talking of Kṛṣṇa always, to understand Kṛṣṇa and to make others to understand Kṛṣṇa, they are not going to do that. For them, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Who will preach unless one knows Kṛṣṇa, why He appears, janma, why He disappears, janma karma, why He works in the warfield of battle, battlefield of Kurukṣetra, karma? Or so many karmas, Kṛṣṇa, when He was present. So unless one understands why Kṛṣṇa comes and work like that, why He comes... Janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. But they are all transcendental. Yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows perfectly well, he can preach. Otherwise what he will talk? We'll have to talk about Kṛṣṇa. If we do not know about the activities of Kṛṣṇa, then what we shall talk? So this talking of Kṛṣṇa, vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane, will make him immortal. It is not the frog's crowing. The frog's crowing will gradually lead him to death. But this kind of transcendental, glorifying vibration will make him immune from death, will elevate to the eternal life, blissful life.



*Therefore this mantra, ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta*-pāraṁ tamo mukundāṅghri niṣevayaiva. Aham: "By accepting this order of life, I shall cross over this nescience of darkness." Tamo mukundāṅghri. Mukunda. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Mukunda. Muk means liberation; *ānanda, He gives liberation and ānanda, eternal bliss. So aṅghri, aṅghri means lotus feet. So "By worshiping, by serving the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, I shall cross over the dark ocean of nescience." Ahaṁ tariṣyā... How? By talking about Kṛṣṇa. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha*-guṇānuvarṇane. Simply by describing the Vaikuṇṭha world. In the morning we are now having class, describing about the nature of Vaikuṇṭha world, how it is constituted, what kind of population there are, how they live, how the Supreme Personality of Godhead is living with goddess of fortune. These things we are discussing in the morning from seven to eight. So those who are interested may come. There is a Vaikuṇṭha world. Vaikuṇṭha. Vigata kuṇṭha yasmād. Vigata means gone; *kuṇṭha means anxiety. Vigata. Here everything is full of anxiety. This is not Vaikuṇṭha. This is kuṇṭha, anxiety. Sada samudvigna*-dhiyām. Samudvigna. Samudvigna means full of anxiety. Everyone, even a bird, he is also not peaceful. If he has comes to take some food from the ground, the bird sees this way, that way, that way. Kuṇṭha, always anxiety: "Is not one coming to kill me?" Therefore you will find the birds doing like this, anxiety. No anxietyless, nobody. Either human being, animal, birds, beasts, everyone. Therefore is called kuṇṭha jagat, full of anxiety. But there is another world, where there is no kuṇṭha. Everyone is free. Some of us trying to become free from all kinds of anxieties, but that is not possible here. We can become free from all kinds of anxiety when we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *otherwise it is not possible. We are aspiring, every one of us, aspiring how to become free of anxiety. But that can be done only when we take shelter of the Vaikuṇṭha*-pati. Vaikuṇṭha-pati, Vaikuṇṭheśvara. So, so long we are accepting asat, asad-grahāt... Here in this material world everything is temporary. Suppose this body, your body, my body. This is called asat. Asat means temporary. It will not exist. So because we have accepted everything which will not exist, therefore we are full of anxiety. This is the full definition of anxiety. And if we take the sat, the, which will exist, and we sacrifice everything for that, that is called Sannyāsī. Sat nyāsī, sannyāsī. If we accept asat, then we will be full of anxiety, and if we accept sat, then we will be free of anxiety. This is the secret of spiritual life.

*So we shall invite every one of you. We have opened this temple in this country. So we invite all Japanese boys and girls, young men. Especially we invite them because they can understand. Old men, they are sophisticated. They, whatever they have understood, it will take hundred years to forget. (laughter) But young men, they are inquisitive, they are receptive. They can easily... Practically all over the world, all our followers, disciples, students, they are all young men, or teenagers, or some of them, about twenty*-five years or thirty years, but no old men. That is the special feature of this movement. In all countries we have got branches, all over America, all over Europe, all over Canada, Australia, and in your country we are now making progress gradually. We have got center here. We are thinking of opening one center in Quoto. What is that?

Sudāmā: Kyoto.



Prabhupāda: Kyoto. So gradually, as you join, we shall enhance our activities, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Try to understand. We have got books, we have got philosophy. It is appreciated all over the world. So thank you for your coming here and joining this ceremony, and we shall continue to invite you more and more, and come here. Thank you very much. (end)





720523IN.LA

Initiations

-

Los Angeles, May 23, 1972



Prabhupāda: (Devotees chant prayers responsively) Chant. (devotees chant) Names? (japa)



Devotee: Serge?



Prabhupāda: You know the rules? What is that?



Devotee: No meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Your name is Śuklāmbara. Śuklāmbara was a great brahmacārī devotee of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You are servant of Śuklāmbara. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



(Another devotee is called; sounds like Carla) (japa) Kaumudī. Do you know the rules and regulations? Yes, tell. (devotee recites rules) So, your name is Kaumudī dāsī. Kaumudī is a nice flower liked by Kṛṣṇa. (japa)

*Next. What is your name? You know the rules and regulations? What is that? (devotee recites rules) Hm. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So your name is Rūpa*-mañjarī dasi. There are different gopīs. The assistant gopīs is mañjarīs. So Rūpa-mañjarī, you, this maidservant of Rūpa-mañjarī.

*Come on. (another devotee is called) What are the rules? (devotee recites rules) Hm. Thank you. Brahmaṇya*-tīrtha dāsa. (japa)

Devotee: Will? Will McLoughlin.



Prabhupāda: ... just do it nicely. You know the rules and regulation?



Will: ... meat, fish or eggs, no intoxication, no gambling, no illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: Hm. Thank you. Varuṇa dāsa. Varuṇadeva. Varuṇadeva is the demigod of sea? Yes. You have to control the Pacific Ocean. (laughter) Preaching. (laughter) All the Pacific islands, you have to preach. Is that all right? (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kaumadakī(?)



(another devotee is called) (japa) So you know the rules and regulations? Yes. What are they?

Sheila: ...meat, fish or eggs, no intoxication...



Prabhupāda: What is that, next? Four you have not mentioned.



Sheila: I have not mentioned four? No intoxicants, no eating meat, fish or eggs, no gambling and no illicit sex.



*Prabhupāda: That's all. So your name is Śrīla dāsī, maidservant of the goddess of fortune. Śrīla. Yes. S*-r-i-l-a. (japa)



Devotee: Next, ah, Laurie? Laura?



Prabhupāda: (japa) Hm, you know the rules? Yes.



Laura: ...no meat, fish or eggs, no intoxicants, no illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



*Devotee: Lakaṅga*-mañjarī dasi ...



Prabhupāda: Lakaṅga? Lavaṅga.



Devotee: Lakaṅga ...



Prabhupāda: What is the spelling?



*Devotee: L*-a-k(?)-a-n-g-a. Lavaṅga. Lavaṅga-mañjarī.



*Prabhupāda: Lavaṅga*-mañjarī is already there. (japa) The Lavaṅga is already there. Lavaṅga mañjarī, Lavaṅga-latika. Hm? Anaṅga-mañjarī, all right? No. Anaṅga-mañjarī is there?



Devotee (2): Yes.



*Prabhupāda: So all right, Lavaṅga*-mañjarī. Lavaṅga-mañjarī. Assistant of Lavaṅga-latā. (japa)



Pradyumna: Robert Dorman?



Prabhupāda: (japa) You know the rules and regulations? (indistinct) And how many rounds you have to chant? Thank you. Vyāsatīrtha, one of the ācāryas in our sampradāya. Vyāsatīrtha. Remember; don't forget. (laughter)



Pradyumna: Katherine?



Prabhupāda: (japa) Very good. Kalā ... What is that? (indistinct) There is no such name. All right, give her name. Kalāvatī. So your name is Kalāvatī dāsī. You know the rules and regulations?



Kalāvatī: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. Come on, that's all right. Don't take ...



Pradyumna: Dirk.



*Prabhupāda: You know the rules and regulations? What are they? (indistinct) That's nice. So you are Dattātreya dāsa. Dattātreya dāsa, the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Dattātreya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So ārati, begin. Bhaja bhakata*-vatsala? (japa) (end)





720527IN.LA

Lecture at Sannyāsa Initiation

-

Los Angeles, May 27, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta*-pāraṁ tamo mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva. As explained in the beginning, the whole process is to engage in the service of Kṛṣṇa, whose another name is Mukunda. Muk means liberation, one who gives liberation and blissful life. So this Kṛṣṇa Conscious movement is meant for delivering the conditioned soul of this age, Kali-yuga, as it was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself, accompanied by Nityānanda. He also took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years only, very young man. So according to Vedic system, one takes sannyāsa at the fag end of life. Just like I have taken. While I was going to die, I took sannyāsa. So, that is also, something is better than nothing. And now you have sannyāsa in prime youthful life. So you are all far better than me. You have got enough opportunity to serve Kṛṣṇa and His mission. I am old man. I may pass away at any moment. The wording is already there. So you remain and preach this cult.



*The world is suffering for ignorance. They may be very proud of their advancement of education. After all, they have no education, no improvement. Simply, they are bold enough, just like the insects. The insects are bold enough to fall down on the fire. Similarly, this civilization without any control of the senses, adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], being unable to control the senses, exactly like the insect, flies very boldly, falls on the fire. Similarly, these uncontrolled senses (are) leading them to the darkest region of materialistic life. They do not know it, and they don't care to know it, because they, they have got their own theory that after this body everything is finished, zero. But that is not the case. Not finished. There are so many species of life we have to enter, in any one of them, and this human form of life is the opportunity to get out of the clutches of māyā, this repetition of birth and death, and anyone can go back to home, back to Godhead, and become eternal associate of the Lord in blissful life. That opportunity is there.

So, but this foolish civilization, they do not know it. It is our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants it. Lord Caitanya wants it. Therefore, success or no success, that doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa will help us, but it is our duty to enlighten the whole human society with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. They do not know what is God, therefore they say that God is dead, there is no God, God is impersonal. So many theories they have got. Actually, they have no idea what is God. On the other hand, against this propaganda of godlessness, we are giving directly God. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. We give His name, His father's name, His address, His activities (laughter), everything. So these rascals may be informed at least. This is our duty. Try your best, and be blessed by Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya.

Thank you very much. (end)



720621IN.LA

Initiations

-

Los Angeles, June 21, 1972



*(chanting of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam 2.3.24)

Prabhupāda: All right. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa)



Pradyumna: Now everyone can take the water which is in front of them when we say these prayers of purification and do just as I am doing. Take the spoon in your left hand... [break] (japa)



Prabhupāda: So you know all the rules and regulations?



*Devotee: No meat*-eating, fish or eggs, no intoxication, no gambling, no illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: Hm. And how many rounds you'll chant?



Devotee: At least sixteen.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Vrajeśvarī dāsī. Vrajeśvarī is the name of Rādhārāṇī. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Lois?



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules?



Lois: (indistinct) (recites rules)



Prabhupāda: How many rounds you'll chant?



Lois: Sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Minimum, yes? So, what is?



Śyāmasundara: Vṛndāvaneśvarī.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Vṛndāvaneśvarī dāsī. Vṛndāvaneśvarī is another name of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī.



Śyāmasundara: Sherry?



Prabhupāda: (japa) Hm. Thank you. So what are the rules?



Sherry: No... (indistinct) (recites rules)



Prabhupāda: That's all. How many rounds you will chant?



Sherry: At least sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Minimum. So your name is Śikhaṇḍī dāsī. Śikhaṇḍī is another name of Arjuna.



Śyāmasundara: Gail?



Prabhupāda: (japa) So what are the rules?



*Gail: No meat*-eating, no meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex ...



Prabhupāda: So you're Satyadevī dāsī. Satyabhāmā was one of the wives of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then?



Śyāmasundara: Pravīnacandra?



Prabhupāda: Are you still impersonalist? (japa) What is this?



Pravīnacandra: Uh, this is an (indistinct). I brought it for you.



Prabhupāda: You are still impersonalist or personalist?



Pravīnacandra: Not still impersonalist ... For the learning, I am learning still. I am not yet... I want to learn more.(?)



Prabhupāda: All right. So, you know the rules and regulations?



Pravīnacandra: Chanting sixteen rounds, no meat eating, no illicit sex life, no gambling and no drinking wine.



Prabhupāda: What is?



Śyāmasundara: Pratibhānu dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Pratibhānu dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Sandy Waxner? Satyamādhava dāsī. Her name's not on the list.



Prabhupāda: Mādhavī?



Śyāmasundara: Her name is not on the list that you gave me.



Prabhupāda: Then Mādhavī can, Mādhavī it can be. Mādhavī. So what are the rules and regulations?



*Mādhavī: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: So your name is Mādhavī devī dāsī. Mādhavī is another name of goddess of fortune. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Pierre?



Prabhupāda: So what are the rules?



Pierre: No illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication, no meat, fish, or eggs.



Śyāmasundara: Parvata Muni dāsa.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Parvata Muni dāsa. Parvata Muni was a great friend of Nārada Muni.



Śyāmasundara: This set of beads says Sandy Waxner on it also. Who is the other? There are two sets of beads. Who is left?



Prabhupāda: What is her name? What? I'll give her name.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, Sandy.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Sāndīpani dāsī. Sāndīpani was the teacher of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, He's teacher of the whole universe, but He had also a teacher. This is the example in character, that one has to accept a teacher, a spiritual master. Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge. He's, His description is all knowledge. Samagra, full knowledge. But He is also going to a teacher's place to learn. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is Kṛṣṇa Himself; *He's accepting a spiritual master, Īśvara Purī. Śrī Caitanya... Śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya... Īśvara... That means Īśvara Purī became glorified by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's acceptance of him as spiritual master. But this is the etiquette, this is the Vedic principle, that even if you are God, if you, even if you know everything, still, you have to accept a teacher, a spiritual master. That is the Vedic system. So what are the rules?



Sandy: No meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: All right, come on. So Sāndīpani dāsī. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





720630IN.SD

Initiations

-

San Diego, June 30, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Where is book? Mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha. Where is Pradyumna? He's not here?



Śyāmasundara: No.



Prabhupāda: So you read.



Śyāmasundara: We're a little early today. He stayed behind to watch the house. It's five to seven. (everyone starts chanting japa)



*Nanda*-kumāra: We didn't read the purport. Should we read the verse first or finish the purport?



Prabhupāda: No. Read the śloka first.



*Nanda*-kumāra: Same śloka, read again? (leads chanting, etc.)



śrī bhagavān uvāca

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



Translation: "Now hear, O son of Pṛthā [Arjuna], how by practicing yoga in full consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from doubt."



Prabhupāda: So this yoga system is very simple and the sublime. You have to simply engage your mind only on Kṛṣṇa, on the form of Kṛṣṇa, meditation. Simply you think of Kṛṣṇa. And how? Āsakta, āsakti, with attachment. Just like if you love somebody, you want to see him, and attachment is so strong that without seeing him, you become restless. That is called āsakti. Āsakti. We have got āsakti, attachment, for so many material things. So we need not explain what is meant by āsakti or attachment. So different people have different attachments, but attachment is there. Somebody may be attached to a dog, and somebody may be attached to God, but the attachment is there. Rūpa Gosvāmī has explained this attachment, very simple. He says, "My dear Lord, as a young man awakens his attachment immediately by seeing a young girl, or a young girl increases her attachment immediately seeing a young boy..." This is natural. Nobody wants to learn in the university how to love a young man or young girl. That is natural. So Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "When my attachment unto You will becomes such naturally and simultaneous?"



This is very nice explanation. Simply by seeing, "Oh, here is a nice, beautiful girl," "Oh, here is a nice, beautiful boy," similarly, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa, here is Kṛṣṇa's kathā, here is Kṛṣṇa's topics, oh, here is Kṛṣṇa's temple." Just like, another example is given. Just like the waves of the river. It goes down. We have seen that little river... What is that? Varta? Always going down. In Japan also, I have seen that little river, with sound, going down, going down. So similarly, as the river is going after the sea spontaneously, without any artificial attempt, so such spontaneous love for Kṛṣṇa, or God, that is the perfection of yoga. This is yoga. Yoga means connection. So that connection... In the beginning we may make, revive that connection artificially, but when the connection will be spontaneous, without any check, just like the river water is going down incessantly... Nobody can check it. Ahaituky apratihatā. And why the river is going there? There is no cause. It is going there. Similarly, when our love for Kṛṣṇa will be gliding down like that, without any cause... Without any cause... Generally... The same example again, that spontaneous love does not depend on any cause without. Cause is there. Cause is there, love. There is no other cause. So it is called ahaituky apratihatā. Ahaitukī means without any cause. Just like we generally go to the temple, to the church, with a cause. Just like in Christian church they go. There is cause: "God, give us our daily bread." The cause is bread. "Therefore I have come to church." But when you go to church without any cause, that is real love. "God will give me bread; therefore, let me go to church," this is also nice, but this motivated faith may be lost. If we approach God for some material benefit, for personal sense gratification, that may break at any time. So that is not real love. Real love is without cause. And apratihatā. Apratihatā means which cannot be checked. My love for God cannot be checked by any material condition. Nobody can say that "Because I am poor man, I have to work so hard, I cannot love God now." People say like that. "We shall wait. When I get millions of dollars in my bank balance, then I shall take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now let me earn money." You see? This is not bhakti or attachment. Mayy āsakta. Mayy āsakta manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means "under My protection." Kṛṣṇa says. So taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa or His representative... Mat means "My man" also. Mad-āśrayaḥ, take shelter of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, and try to practice the yoga by which you will have spontaneous love for Kṛṣṇa.

So this practice, according to Vedic instruction... Because we have no attachment. So for making attachment, there are some regulative principles by which you can increase the attachment. Just like we say, "No illicit sex." That means... Illicit sex means those who are too much attached to sex; *otherwise, there is no question of illicit sex. According to Vedic system one is married, and married means the girl has got a husband, and the boy has got a wife. So living on religious principles, they can satisfy their sex life for begetting nice children. So there is no prohibition. That is allowed. But illicit sex means your attachment for sex is increased, not for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is forbidden. No meat*-eating. Meat-eating or fish-eating or egg-eating, nonvegetarian diet, it is simply attachment of the tongue. Nobody dies without meat-eating. That's not a fact. When we were children, we were babies, we were depending on milk, either mother's breast milk or cow's milk. Therefore cow is also our mother. Just like we drink breast milk from my mother, similarly, we drink milk from mother cow. Therefore meat-eating is prohibited. You cannot kill your mother. That is a great sin. You cannot. But people have become so sinful that they have no consideration that "I am going to kill my mother. I am so ungrateful that the mother who supplied her blood to feed me, to keep me living, now I am grown-up, I am going to kill my mother." This is my advancement of education, that "I have learned how to kill my mother." Therefore, in every religion the killing is prohibited or very much restricted. So in your Christian religion, the first item is, "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is violating this first commandment. Then where is your claim to become a Christian? If you violate the injunction given by Lord Jesus Christ, then where, how you become a Christian? That is our question. Either Christian or this or that, killing is most sinful. This should be avoided.

*Therefore in the beginning, to increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa... Because my business is to increase my spontaneous attachment for God. That is the business of human life. This is a chance. Because in the human form of life you can do that. And as soon as you increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Successful means that you haven't got to accept any more this material body. You will get a spiritual body and go to Kṛṣṇa, or go to home, go back to Godhead. So if you increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa, the benefit is that you make a solution for all the problems of life. It is scientific. Mayy āsakta manāḥ pārtha. So in the beginning, in order to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa, you have to follow the regulative principles, "Don't do this." Just like a doctor gives you prescription, "Don't eat this. Don't do this," similarly, there are so many "don't"s and so many "do"s. So we have to accept the "do"s, not the "don't"s. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This is called favorably cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to accept the "do"s, not the "don't"s. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpa, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. We have to accept the favorable things. So if illicit sex life is unfavorable for my advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I must accept it. You cannot argue. That will not help you. Similarly, intoxication. Similarly, meat*-eating. Similarly, gambling. Because these are the four pillars of sinful life: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. The roof of sinful life is held by these four pillars.

*So these four pillars, in the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when you are actually going to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously... Just like some souls will be initiated today. This means that he is going to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness very serious. So one who is serious to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his first business is to break these four pillars of sinful life so there will be no chance of sin. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam: "One who is freed from all sinful reaction of life..." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Puṇya-karmaṇām, pious activity. "Those who are acting in pious life, simply executing pious activities..." Pious activities means yajña-dāna-tapa-kriyā. Pious activities means yajña, performing yajña. Just like there will be fire sacrifice. Dāna, charity, giving charity for Kṛṣṇa's propaganda. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is making propaganda, so they require money. Money is Kṛṣṇa's money. Everyone is holding Kṛṣṇa's money. So the sooner they spare that money... Because if I am holding your money, if I give it to you, then I become released from my criminal activities. Suppose I have stolen something from your pocket and I become conscious, "Oh, this stealing is not good," so as soon as I return unto you, "Please take this money; *I was mistaken," so thing is settled up. But if you hold it, then you are criminal. You will be punished. Similarly, everyone who is holding Kṛṣṇa's money, not returning to Kṛṣṇa, he is a criminal. He will be punished. How they are punished? That you have seen. In India, in recent... Everywhere, the same thing is going on. There was war between Pakistan and India. So all the rich men had to contribute fifty lakhs, fifty hundred thousand, according to everyone's capacity. Many millions of rupees were collected, and it was put into the gun powder, "Svāhā!" (laughter) So if you don't execute this svāhā, then you will have to execute that svāhā. (laughter) (sings out the word "svāhā!") That's all. The Vietnam is going on*-svāhā! So many young men-svāhā! So much money-svāhā! You have to do that. Therefore better learn how to make svāhā for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you will have to make svāhā for māyā. That's all. The sooner you give up... Yajña-dāna. This is called yajña and dāna, and tapas, tapasya. Tapasya means this following, voluntarily accepting all restrictive principles. Because we are addicted to all this license or nonsense. Not license. It is nonsense. So unless you stop all these nonsense activities, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gatam... If you want to be serious... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

So in this way we have to increase our attachment for Kṛṣṇa, and if we increase our attachment for Kṛṣṇa, mayy āsakta manāḥ pārtha yogam... This yoga system... This yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is the topmost yoga system. Why it is topmost? Because it teaches how to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa; *therefore it is topmost. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ [Bg. 6.47]. There are different kinds of yogis. "Of all the yogis..." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. Sarveṣām means "of all." Mad-gata āntarātmanā: "One who is always thinking of Me." You can think of one if you are attached to him; *otherwise, artificially you cannot do. That's not possible. If you love somebody, then you will always see his picture, his form, always. These are simple yoga. And it is said... As it is said in the Vedic literature, premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. We have to create our eyes or purify our eyes to see God. And that purification is possible when you apply the ointment of love of God, daily. How to love Kṛṣṇa? Take it as ointment. As we apply some ointment to increase the sight of our eyes... Doctor gives some prescription. We use it also. So similarly, how to see God. You will see God with these eyes when it is clarified. Premāñjana-cchurita, by the ointment of love of Godhead. So these are the function, how to love. One has to rise early in the morning. He doesn't like, but, "No. I will have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa." This is the beginning. "Oh, I have to chant sixteen rounds." He is lazy. He doesn't want to do it. But if he loves Kṛṣṇa, he must do it. He must do it. So in the beginning we have to learn how to love, but when you come to the state, oh, there is no question of... You may follow the regulative principle or not, because love is there. But don't imitate. Just like in our ordinary love affairs, if I want to love some girl, I bring some flower, I bring some presentation. In this way she thinks, "Oh, it is very nice boy. He has brought me this, that." In this way there are six principles of love. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You have to give and you have to take. I love somebody. I give him something: "My dear, you take this." And when he offers also, if he also loves you, he also return you. Not exactly for returning. It is love to give and take. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca. Opening mind. "My dear lover, I like this." And the other party also opens his mind. Guhyam ākhyāti... Guhyam means very confidential things. Ākhyāti, disclosed, exchanged. Guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca. And bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva. And giving the lover to eat something and accept from him some eatable. These are the six ways of increasing love. If you act in that way with Kṛṣṇa...

You are taking so many things from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving you everything. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Whatever our necessities of life, that is being supplied by Kṛṣṇa. We are taking these fruits, flowers, grains. It is not possible to manufacture these in your factory. It is Kṛṣṇa sending, Kṛṣṇa giving you. So we are living at the cost of Kṛṣṇa, and after cooking these fruits, flowers or grains, if we do not offer to Kṛṣṇa, is that very good gentlemanliness? I take so much from you and simply, nicely, and very cleanly cooking the foodstuff, if we offer to Kṛṣṇa, then what is the wrong there? The rascals, they say, "Oh, they are heathens. They are worshiping some stone." Just see. So these are all less intelligent person. God eats. Kṛṣṇa says, tad aham aśnāmi. "I eat."

patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

tad aham aśnāmi

*bhakty*-upahṛtam

[Bg. 9.26]



*Kṛṣṇa says that "My devotee, when he brings something within the categories of vegetables, grains and fruits, because he has brought with devotion and love, I eat them." So when the devotee offers with devotion and love, "Kṛṣṇa, You have given us so many nice things. So I have cooked it. Kindly You take first," oh, how it is nice. Just like your father has given you so many things and you are obliged, "Oh, our father is maintaining us." And if you cook something and give it to the father first, "My dear father, I have cooked this. It is very nice. You first of all..." "Oh, it is very nice? All right, give me." The father will be so much pleased. "Oh, here is my dear son." It is father's property. You cannot give anything to the father. Similarly, you have nothing to offer to Kṛṣṇa. Simply you have to become little intelligent. That's all. Not rascal. If you remain rascal, then your human life is spoiled. If you become little intelligent, then your human life is successful. This is intelligence, that "God is giving us... God is giving us daily bread. Why not offer to God first?" That is intelligence. And simply, "God is giving me bread. I shall eat. That's all..." I am meant for eating only? And why not offering? God will not eat. Simply you feel gratitude: "Oh, God has given me this bread. Let me offer it to God first of all. Then I take." What is the wrong there? What is loss there? But these narādhama, lowest of the mankind, they even do not recognize this. Lowest of... They have been described in Bhagavad..., narādhama. Na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā. His intelligence, his knowledge, has been taken away by māyā. He has not this knowledge even, that "God has given me to eat. Why not offer first of all to God?" This intelligence has been taken away by māyā. Therefore they are narādhama. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So those who are narādhama, lowest of the mankind... Just like here, something being offered to Kṛṣṇa, to God, He will eat it, but He will leave everything for you as prasādam. How? Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. This is God's power. He will eat everything, but He will keep everything for you as prasādam. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya. Taking everything, but still, it is there.



*So this is the process, how to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. This bhakti*-yoga or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing... We do not say that "You Christian, you are good. I am Hindu, I am bad." Or "You are bad, I am good." We don't say that. We simply say that "It is your right now, this human form of body, how to love God." That's all. "You have loved so long dog. Now you try to love God." That is our propaganda. So we don't criticize anyone. Simply we want to see whether he or she has developed his love of God. That's all. So you can do it either as Christian or as Hindu, as Muhammadan. We don't care for that. But we want to see you that you are actually lover of God. If you are not, then we tell you, "You try to love God in this way." What is that? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Simply hear about Kṛṣṇa. Simply chant about Kṛṣṇa. Is that very difficult? If you have not yet learned how to love God, take this process, and you will learn how to love God. This is our propaganda. It is not difficult.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



These are the nine different processes. So you can execute all the nine processes or eight, seven, six, five, four. But at least, take to one. You will be perfect. If you simply come here in this temple, without doing anything, simply hear about Kṛṣṇa, your life will be perfect.



Thank you very much. [break]

*(devotees start coming up for initiation) So what are the rules and regulations? (girl gives answer) So your name is Rasa*-mañjarī, one of the gopīs. You are maidservant of Rasa-mañjarī. Take this.

Next, come on. What are the rules and regulation? (boy answers) How many rounds you will chant?

Devotee: Sixteen.



*Prabhupāda: Minimum. Your spiritual name*-Jñānasindhu dāsa. Jñānasindhu was one of the ācāryas in our disciplic succession.



(to next devotee) What are the rules and regulation? (devotee answers) Thank you. Akṣobhya. He was also one of the ācāryas in our disciplic succession. Come on. You want to speak? No. (end)



720901IN.NV

Initiation Lecture

-

New Vrindaban, September 1, 1972



Prabhupāda: We cannot manufacture any...



Kīrtanānanda: They have to be bona fide.



Prabhupāda: Yes, bona fide. That is accepted in the śāstra.



Kīrtanānanda: (reading) "The third offense is to neglect the order of the authorized ācārya or spiritual master.



*Prabhupāda: This name is not different from the original Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. That is Absolute Truth. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's form-we are seeing here Kṛṣṇa's form-it is not different from the original Personality of Kṛṣṇa. Or Kṛṣṇa's pastimes-we hear about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā-that subject matter is also not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. Anything about Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. It will be realized gradually. For the time being you have to take it for acceptance, that "I am chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. This means that Kṛṣṇa is personally present on my tongue. Therefore I am in direct touch with Kṛṣṇa." And we should be very careful so that we may not..., offense, commit offenses, as they are being described. Another, Kṛṣṇa has got many names: nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis. So of all the names, two names are very important: Rāma and Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the Rāma and Kṛṣṇa are there, and Kṛṣṇa's potency, Hare. So in the śāstra it is said that one thousand names of Viṣṇu... There is Viṣṇu's one thousand names, viṣṇu-sahasra-nāma. If one chants Viṣṇu's names-there are thousands*-that is equal to one name Rāma. And three times chanting the name of Rāma is equal to one "Kṛṣṇa." Therefore we should take advantage to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Although there are many names of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is the chief name, mukha, and Lord Caitanya chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So we should follow Lord Caitanya's footsteps. Although Kṛṣṇa has got many names, we should, by following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we should take advantage of chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Go on.



Kīrtanānanda: "The sixth offense... [break]... usually it is said that one can be liberated from the..." [break]



Prabhupāda: ...impure. There is English word like that. So that we may not fall a victim of sinful activities, you shall go on always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa (devotees complete chanting), not that after committing sin, you'll utilize Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra to counteract it. Don't do that. Then you'll give it up. Just to keep yourself aloof from sinful activities, you chant always Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, but don't utilize Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra to counteract your sinful activities. "So I am, I have got an instrument, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, let me do all nonsense and I shall chant in the evening Hare Kṛṣṇa and it will neutralized." Actually, they are doing. There are so many rascals, they are committing this offense, on the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is the greatest offense. They will never make any progress in spiritual life if I utilize Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra for my material purpose. Go on.



Kīrtanānanda: "The eighth..." [break]



Prabhupāda: Chant the mantras first. Then I shall tell you all. Then after that you can perform sacrifice. [break] (maṅgalacaraṇa chanted responsively) (japa) [break] All right. The rules and regulation.



Devotee: (repeats four rules in background.)



Prabhupāda: How many rounds do you chant?



Devotee: I do sixteen a day.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Sixteen rounds. So your name is Akulānanda. Akula means incomparable, and ānanda means blissfulness. So Kṛṣṇa is Akulānanda.



Devotee: John Swindler.



Prabhupāda: Akulānanda dāsa brahmacārī.(aside:) He's brahmacārī? (japa)



*Devotee: Pyāri*-caraṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Hm? Pyāri*-caraṇa? (devotee spells name) What are the rules and regulations?



*Bhakta John: No intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex life, and chant at least sixteen rounds a day.



*Prabhupāda: And no intoxication, also. So your name is Pyāri*-caraṇa. Pyāri is another name of Rādhārāṇī. So caraṇa means lotus feet. So Pyāri-caraṇa dāsa. So you are servant of the lotus feet of Rādhā.



Devotee: Jayarāma. Harold? Harold Miller? (japa)



Prabhupāda: What is that? Jayarāma? What are the rules and regulations?



*Bhakta Harold: No illicit sex life, no intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling, and at least sixteen rounds a day.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Jayarāma. Jayarāma, "all glories to Lord Rāmacandra." (japa)



*Devotee: Hara*-kumāra.



*Prabhupāda: Hara*-kumāra.



Devotee: Susan II.



Prabhupāda: What is that? [break]



*Devotee: Rādhā*-kuṇḍa. (japa)



*Prabhupāda: Rādhā*-kuṇḍa dāsī.



Devotee: Is there any one else who hasn't got... (end)





720904IN.NV



Initiation Lecture and Ceremony

--

New Vrindaban, September 4, 1972



Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Monday, September Fourth, 1972, new temple room in Bahulaban, New Vrindaban, 7PM.



*Prabhupāda: So, "All glories to the assembled devotees" means "including the children." Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that even children without any knowledge of Vedānta*-and big, big philosopher-simply by attending the performance of devotional service even a child's mind can be glorious-without an education. That is...We are explaining in this statement of Sūta Gosvāmī: ahaituky apratiyatā. Apratiyatā means "it cannot change anymore." It doesn't matter what he is. He may be a grown-up man or a small child. He may be educated, noneducated; civilized or uncivilized; *even man or animal. Everyone can take part in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhakti-yoga. This word is very important, that, ahaituky apratiyatā. Apratiyatā means "without any (indistinct)." Because, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the soul, not for the body. So far body is concerned, that is according to your past karma, it is destined. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that here in this material world we are after sense pleasure-everyone-birds, beasts, animals, aquatics, human beings, even the demigods-anyone who is within this material world, he is concerned with the gratification of the senses in different degree. But the aim is sense gratification. Therefore, we are given by the laws of nature-not, nature is not independent*-by the superior order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Supreme Personality of Godhead as Paramātmā is sitting in everyone's heart: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhutānāṁ hṛd-deśe [Bg. 18.61]. It specifically mentions, "it is within the heart," hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. So I am also there, and Supersoul is also there. So, the Supersoul's business is to witness: anumantā, upadraṣṭā. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gī... The Supersoul is simply observing what I am doing, and he is the supreme witness, upadraṣṭā. And anumantā. As I desire... Not according to my desire, but because I desire I have been given the freedom to desire. But without the sanction of the Supersoul I cannot do anything.



Just like a child; *a child is persisting, crying, "Father, I must have. Give me." Father does not like to give him that undesirable thing, but because the child persists in crying, making disturbance, then my father says, "All right, you take." That is father's mercy. "Oh, why this child is crying? Let him have it. That's all." We have got practical experience. So, I may recite that in my younger days when my eldest son was only two years and half, so, he was trying to catch the table fan*-the table fan was moving-so I was resisting(?), "No, don't touch." But he insisted, a child. So, one of my friends was sitting, he said that, "Make it slow and allow him to touch it." So I did it and the child touched it; then there was, in the finger, "Tunnng!" And, then I asked him if, "Again touch?"



"No, no! (devotee chuckles) No."



*This is the process. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. We all living entities, we have come here within this material world, to enjoy, to lord it over the material nature. It is going on, everyone can understand, that, What is this market? If you go to (indistinct)? Then what is the business there? The business is that everyone wants to enjoy this world to the full satisfaction. Either you call it "industry" or "trade" or "business" or "high-court." What is the aim? The aim is that, "I want to enjoy." This is individually. To take it nationally, statewide, one state wants that my (indistinct) must be extended-sense gratification. First of all you give your self gratification, then extended-my family, my sons, my grandsons, they will enjoy-make such arrangements. This is nature. And then you extend it from family-wise to community-wise from (indistinct) nationalize. Then international also*-that we human being, we should combine together and send all the animals to the slaughterhouse and eat them. Their combined effort. What is that? Who is arranging?



This is going on. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare pāśate māyā... This is māyā. This disease has to be cured. That requires knowledge and religious (indistinct). That's required. So, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to train people to come to the original constitutional position. What is that? Every living entity is part and parcel of God; *therefore the duty of the part and parcel is to serve the whole. The part and parcel cannot enjoy individually or independent-that is not possible. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It has to enjoy at a certain cost. Not that a finger will catch up some rasagullā and enjoy it-that is not possible. It must go through the stomach. The rasagullā will be caught and put into the mouth*-it must go to the stomach, and the stomach will digest it, and the energy will be distributed, not only to this finger but other fingers, other parts of the body. This has to be learned. That is called yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. We are discussing that point. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that immediately everyone comes into ecstasy, and he wants to serve Kṛṣṇa.



So, this temple, our Deity worship, arcanā, it gives chance to the people to take part in serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like this child is dancing. It is taken into account of his devotional service; it is not in vain. Anyone who comes here, who hears, who rings some bells, or dance, or offer obeisances, or... You'll find all this description is there in our *Nectar of Devotion*. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Anyone who comes before Him and renders a little service,



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*Little service. Out of these nine varieties of devotional service-one, two, three, or at least one*-he is (indistinct). This is called ajñāta sukṛti: without knowledge, some balance of spiritual life is developed. Just like we collect money-four annas, four annas. Just like home savings, save, you can put it four annas, five annas, one rupee; *one day check: it is fifty rupees. This is called ajñāta sukṛti. Without sukṛti, without being purified, without being pious, nobody can approach God-that is not possible. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. This very word is used by Kṛṣṇa, sukṛti, means those who are, whose background is, pious. And those are duṣkṛtina-two words have been used-one sukṛti, and one duṣkṛti. Kṛti. Kṛti, this word is used for one very expert. So the expert word is there: kṛti. But duṣ and su. There are men who are very expert, but some of them employing their expertness in sinful activities, and some of them employing there expertness in pious activities. That is the difference. You can apply your brain in two way-this way or that. But those who are applying their brains for pious activities, they can be devotees. And those who are applying their brains for impious activities they cannot-that is not possible. So, this Deity worship is open for everyone so that, knowingly or unknowingly, anyone who's coming here, he's becoming pious. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. Because, Kṛṣṇa worship or God worship is not possible for persons who are sinful*-that is stated in the Bhagavad-gitā:



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*Dṛḍha-vratāḥ: "firm determination." That kinds of devotional life is possible only when one is completely free from the resultant action of sinful activity, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataḥ. Anta-gataḥ: "one who has finished." We are suffering and enjoying in this life. So, what we are enjoying, that is due to our pious activities in the past. Just like in our daily business, if you have to take some money from somebody, that is your income. And if you have to pay somebody that is your expenditure. Two things are going on. You cannot expect here in this material world simply income. There must be expenditure. So two things, they are known as sukha and duḥkha Sukha means "happiness" and duḥkha means "distress." So, as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that this sukha and duḥkha-happiness and distress-is already destined. And soon as I get a certain type of body, my life's happiness and distresses are fixed up. That's all-you cannot change it. That is called destiny. But, the ātmā is-although encaged within this body-is always separated, apart from. Just like I give you so many examples: that a dog-the body is dog's body-it must be as dog. But even a dog can be made a devotee*-it doesn't matter. Because he has got the body of a dog it does not mean that he cannot remain a devotee. It can be trained. As you train the dog how to bite others, at night, so you can train the dog also how to become devotee. Therefore this is training. This child is being trained up from the beginning of his birth, in the association of devotees. So if it is possible for one child, many thousands and millions of children can be taught in the devotional... What is (indistinct)? But there is no chance; *there is no chance. And the Bhāgavata says that if you cannot train your children to become free from birth and death, don't beget. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta*-mṛtyum. That is called rascaldom. Don't beget child. Or, "Go enjoy sense gratification and use some contraceptive method." No. The (indistinct) should be that "I am a human being, so I must have a child who must be human being." What is that human being? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Here (indistinct) we have discussed last night. Tattva-jijñāsā. Everyone should be interested to enquire-athāto brahma jijñāsā, or tattva-jijñāsā, what is the aim of life, what is the absolute truth?



So, children should be educated also from the very beginning. (end)





730126IN.CAL

Sannyāsa Initiation Lecture

-

Calcutta, January 26, 1973



*Prabhupāda: ... and sat means om tat sat, the Absolute Truth. Sannyāsa. (aside:) So stop that sound. So renouncement, simply giving up something, is not very good idea. You must have something better. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. If you get something better, then you give up something inferior. Our Vaiṣṇava philosophy, renouncement means renouncement of sense gratification. The Māyāvāda sannyāsa means karma*-tyāga, simply reading Vedānta philosophy, sāṅkhya philosophy, and everything given up. But our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is giving up the wrong thing and accepting the right thing. Side by side. Simply if I give up, it will not stay very long time. If I simply by sentiment give up, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "This world is false and Brahman is the real, reality," so there are so many sannyāsīs, we see, they give up the so-called mithyā world and come to the Brahman realization by meditation, by meditation, meditation... Then meditation means hospital and school. Because there is no Brahman, there is no reality. So after much meditation, (he) comes to the conclusion that "Now I am a sannyāsī. I must open schools, college and daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā and goat-nārāyaṇa killing." This kind of sannyāsa has no meaning. Daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā. By killing goat nārāyaṇa. Goat is not Nārāyaṇa. Simply daridras are Nārāyaṇa. If you accept one as Nārāyaṇa, why should you not accept the other as Nārāyaṇa?



*So this kind of false sannyāsa is not accepted by the Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇavas, they accept sannyāsa for better activities. For better activities means dedicated life for satisfying the Supreme Lord. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Anyone who has sacrificed his life for Kṛṣṇa, he's sannyāsa. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī [Bg. 6.1]. Na niragnir na cākriyaḥ. One who has given up... A sannyāsī is not supposed to cook. Ni, niragniḥ. And na niragnir na yogī. But anāśritaḥ karma-phalam. Tyāgī means karma-phala tyāga. This is tyāga, real tyāga. Suppose you are working. You are doing some business and getting lakhs of rupees' profit. If you can give up that profit for Kṛṣṇa, that is sannyāsa. Otherwise, "I shall enjoy fully the profit and I have become a great devotee"? No. Sannyāsa means, as it is stated, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. Karma-phalaṁ. There must be some karma-phala, whatever you do. There must be some result, bad or good. So anāśritaḥ, without taking shelter of the result of activities, kāryaṁ karma karo... "It is my duty." Just like Arjuna did. Arjuna understood that Kṛṣṇa wanted the fight. He took it, kāryam, that "I, this, this, I must do. This I must do. Kṛṣṇa wants it. Because my business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. I cannot become nonviolent as I wanted to become falsely, 'Kṛṣṇa, I don't want to fight with my cousin-brothers, my nephews, my grandfather.' That was my sense gratification." Kṛṣṇa immediately said, "What kind of nonsense you are talking, that you won't fight, won't fight? This is not good." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame... "What kind of nonsense you are speaking? You have come to fight in the battlefield, and now you are talking that nonviolence. So don't talk all this nonsense because you are My friend, My cousin-brother. It does not look well." Anārya-juṣṭam asvargyam akīrti-karam. [Bg. 2.2] "These things are done by the anaryas, not by a gentleman." Anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. "You, this, this will be infamous for you. Don't do like that." Then He explained to him Bhagavad-gītā. And when he understood, then he took sannyāsa. What is that sannyāsa? Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73] "Yes, I'll fight." That's all.

*So this is sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma*-phalaṁ [Bg. 6.1]. He was first of all judging, "If I kill my cousin-brothers, my grandfather, there will be bad result. I'll go to hell." Now, later on decided, "Hell or heaven, I don't care for it." That is called anāśritaḥ. "I don't take shelter of hell or heaven. I take shelter of Kṛṣṇa." A devotee does not discriminate what is hell or what is heaven. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kaścana na bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. One who is Nārāyaṇa parāḥ, devotee, he doesn't care for what is hell or heaven. Svargāpavarga-narakeṣu api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ. A devotee... Just like Nārada: he goes to hell, he goes to heaven. He has got freedom to go everywhere. Tulyārtha-darśinaḥ. For him, there is no hell, there is no heaven. He's preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness wherever he goes. That's all. He has nothing to do. Just like we went to that Savarmati jail in Ahmedabad. We were received by the jail authorities, where Gandhi was put into jail. Who was with me in that...? You were... You were also there. No. So we went to jail. There, they made very good arrangement. The prisoners, they received us, they chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So it was a good function. So we want to, went to jail. But what we have got to do with the jail? We have no business with the jail. Similarly sometimes we are invited in a very rich man's house, governor's house. We go there. That is heaven. So we have nothing to take, either from this heaven or from that hell. We have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra anywhere. That is our business.

So,

*nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

*svargāpavarga*-narakeṣv

*api tulyārtha*-darśinaḥ

[SB 6.17.28]



*So this renouncement, for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is real sannyāsa. Just like when I went to your country, actually sometimes I had to live in a hell according to our Indian standard, Vedic standard. So what can be done? Hell or heaven, I have to do my duty. It doesn't matter. Factually... I do not want to describe those things. So this sannyāsa means do not care for personal sense gratification-"Oh, this is inconvenience. This is convenience." Simply go on preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma*-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī yogī. He's yogi, he's sannyāsī in everything, who is simply working for Kṛṣṇa. There will be some result, loss or gain. So if there is loss, that is Kṛṣṇa's. If there is gain, that is also Kṛṣṇa's. Not that loss is Kṛṣṇa's and gain is mine. No. Not like that. Everything Kṛṣṇa's. We have to work for Kṛṣṇa. So, so take this mantra.



Śyāmasundara: These are the copies of the two mantras. Two pages.



Prabhupāda: No. Come one. First Bhavānanda come. You also come. Chant this mantra: Etām... (devotees chant this mantra responsively with Prabhupāda.) No. Stand up. Etām.... Stand up.



*etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma*-niṣṭhām

upāsitāṁ pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ

*ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta*-pāraṁ

*tamo mukundāṅghri*-niṣevayaiva



(Śloka is chanted responsively two more times) Come on. Whose this is? Yours? Give that garland. Come on. Give him garland.



Devotee: Haribol!



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Stand up. So... So the purport of this verse, etāṁ sa āsthāya, this sannyāsa order I am accepting. Why? Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma*-niṣṭhām. Just to fix up my mind steadily on the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, parātma-niṣṭhā. My only life is meant for serving the Supreme Lord, original Nārāyaṇa, not daridra-nārāyaṇa. That is my iṣṭhā. Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhā. You... If we serve the Supreme Nārāyaṇa, the daridra-nārāyaṇa is automatically... There is no such word as daridra-nārāyaṇa. The poor souls, they can be served automatically. Just like taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ. If the root is watered, then the trunk and branches and the twigs and the flowers, automatically... Prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇām. Prāṇopahārāc. Just like offering foodstuff to the stomach. Then every indriya, every sense is satisfied. Two, two examples are given. One may argue, "Suppose I am watering. That is also nice. I water to the root, I water to the leaf also." The injunction is that there is no necessity of watering the leaves. You simply water the root. But if you argue that "What is the harm...? Suppose I... Root, offer water to the root, as well as to the leaves and twigs." Just like somebody says, "All right. Why we shall only worship Kṛṣṇa? Why not other demigods?" although it is not necessary. But the next example is given that, prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇām. Just like offering foodstuff to the stomach, the senses automatically become healthy, then now, if you say, in the same way... Just like offering to the root as well as to the leaves, that "Yes, I shall offer foodstuff to the stomach as well as to the ears and eyes." Then what the result will be? The result will be that your eyes and ears will be stopped functioning. Therefore this very example is given. This, this is not required at all. Similarly, by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, you don't require to endeavor to worship the demigods, to worship the daridras, to worship the this and that. It will be automatically done.



*Just like in our temples, everywhere, we are daily feeding so many daridras. So many. In Los Angeles, in New York, and Māyāpur also, daily we are feeding five hundred to one thousand people. They are daridras. So that is the duty of every temple. There we're feeding not only Hindus and, only, but Muslims also. Anyone. Anyone come here and take prasādam. And the whole village is so satisfied with these activities. Temple means there must be sufficient foodstuff. Anyone who comes for foodstuff, he should be given. So by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, these things automatically done. There is no need of extra endeavor. Parātma*-niṣṭhā. This is called parātma-niṣṭhā. Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhā. Not only now. From time immemorial, all the temples in India, they have got sufficient foodstuff. Even at Nātha-dvāra, if you pay them only one anna or four annas, they'll give you so much nice prasādam. The two annas, four annas, the priestly order, they take. Otherwise, prasāda is distributed. So by worshiping Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is not hungry. He's fully satisfied. He doesn't require to eat. Temple worship means to distribute the prasādam to the poor. That is temple worship. Temple worship does not mean that you, you bring some rice from the neighborers and cook it and eat yourself and sit, sleep down, nice. No. Temple worship means you must distribute prasādam... You should... To the poor. Everyone is poor. Not that the rich man is not poor. Actually I have seen one rich man, he was coming for asking some prasādam. In my, before when I taking, when I was gṛhastha, I was going in so many temples, asking for some prasādam. That's a long history. So there is no question of, if one is financially poor, he should come to the temple. Everyone should come to the temple and ask for prasāda. That is required.

*So parātma*-niṣṭhām. The sannyāsī should worship the Deity in the temple and feed the poor. Poor does not mean that one who has no legs, no ears, or no... Poor... Everyone who is spiritually poor, he should be given prasādam. By eating, prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. That is called paramātma-niṣṭhām. Yajña. It is called yajña-śiṣṭāśino santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. It is not poor-feeding. It is distributing the resultant action of yajña. This worship is yajña. So yajña-śiṣṭāśino... If you feed some men, not the so-called poor, everyone, then they'll be freed from their sinful activities. Yajña-śiṣṭāśino santaḥ mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Kilbiṣaiḥ means sinful activities. Therefore prasāda distribution. Because everyone is engaged simply duṣkṛtinaḥ, simply sinful activities. Eating everything, doing everything, and they're life is full of sinful activities. Therefore to deliver them this prasāda distribution is required. Mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Not that cooking in an, like a hotel, and sometimes, out of compassion, we distribute prasādam. That kind of, means bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13]. Simply for feeding myself or yourself. Just like in marriage ceremony and other ceremonies we do. That, that bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpā, they're simply eating pāpā. Therefore we are prohibited to take prasādam anywhere and everywhere. Because if there is no Deity worship, if we take food from their house, then we partake the sin, resultant action of their sinful activities. We should be careful. Unless it is prasādam, if we accept invitation from anywhere and everywhere, that means we are accepting the sinful activities, resultant action of the sin, person. Therefore a sannyāsī... And it was, formerly, this was the regulation, that sannyāsī would take prasādam in the house of a brāhmaṇa, because a brāhmaṇa is supposed to worshiper of Nārāyaṇa. In every house of a brāhmaṇa there was Nārāyaṇa-śilā. Still some rigid brāhmaṇas, they worship. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu even, He did not accept prasādam from a non-Vaiṣṇava brāhmaṇa. He must be brāhmaṇa, at the same time, Vaiṣṇava. Then He would accept.

*So this regulation we should follow. We should not accept food, (only) prasādam. If anyone wants to give us food, then he must arrange for cooking food and offering to the Nārāyaṇa, to the Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. Then we can take. This is the... Otherwise we... Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātmā... People who are cooking for eating oneself, that cooking, that eating is simply sinful. Without prasādam, whatever we eat, that is, we are eating sin, That's all. Therefore we must suffer. We should be careful. Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpā. This is parātma*-niṣṭhā, that we should not accept anything which is not offered to Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa. Parātma-niṣṭhām. Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām. This niṣṭhā is not invented by us. Pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ upāsitām. All great predecessors... There were other sannyāsīs, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was a sannyāsī. So pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ upāsitām. These actions were executed by our previous ācāryas. Pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ upāsitām. Mahadbhiḥ. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You have to follow the ācārya. Ācārya upāsana. Aham... The, what will be the result? Now, ahaṁ tariṣyāmi. I shall cross over.... Tariṣyāmi. Duranta-pāram. The extensive, unlimitedly extensive, the ocean of material existence. Ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāraṁ tama. Tama means this material world, which is darkness. Because our business is to go out of this darkness to the light. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. We have to go to the light. So this is the process. Aham... And what is that process? Tama mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva. Mukunda means Kṛṣṇa, one who gives liberation. Hari. Hari means one who takes away all your sinful activities. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. He's taking; therefore His name is Hari. Mukundāṅghri. Another name is Mukunda. Mukunda means... Muk means mukti, and ānanda means bliss. Kṛṣṇa gives you mukti, deliverance, deliverance from this tama, this material world, and gives you transcendental bliss; therefore His name is Mukunda. Mukundāṅghri: the lotus feet of Mukunda. Niṣevayaiva. Simply by serving the lotus feet of Mukunda, I can do this. This is the sum and substance.

So this sannyāsa order, although it is prohibited in this age... Because so many rascals will accept sannyāsa and do all nonsense things; *therefore sannyāsa is prohibited. Just like nowadays in Kali*-yuga the, some of the sannyāsīs, they are eating meat. Disastrous. So this kind of rascal sannyāsīsm is prohibited in the śāstra. Sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam, devareṇa sutotpattiṁ kalau pañca vivarjayet [Cc. Ādi 17.164]. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, they took sannyāsa for preaching work, not for doing rascaldom. Preaching work. So Mukunda ahaṁ niṣevaye. Mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva. Simply by serving... Mukunda, Kṛṣṇa, what does He want? He wants that this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, should be spread all over the world. You take up this determination and be steady in your sannyāsī. That is my request.

Thank you very much. (end)



730416IN.LA

Initiations

-

Los Angeles, April 16, 1973



Prabhupāda: So, name? Come on, one after another.



Brahmānanda: Arlene?



Prabhupāda: Arlene. So you know the rules and regulation?



Arlene: Yes.



Prabhupāda: What are these?



*Arlene: No meat*-eating, fish or eggs, no intoxication, no illicit sex.



Prabhupāda: How many rounds will you chant?



Arlene: Sixteen at least.



Prabhupāda: What is the...



*Brahmānanda: Kīrtidā*-kanyakā dāsī.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Kīrtidā dāsī.



Brahmānanda: Theresa?



Prabhupāda: What is the name, come on. Come here. What are the rules and regulations?



*Theresa: No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: And how many rounds?



Theresa: Sixteen.



Prabhupāda: That is the minimum. Yes, come on.



Brahmānanda: Taraṇī dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Tariṇī dāsī. You can deliver everyone. Come on. Next.



Brahmānanda: Cindy.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



*Cindy: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: And now many rounds will you chant?



Cindy: Sixteen at least.



Prabhupāda: That's nice.



*Brahmānanda: Bhagavat*-citta-rathinī dāsī.



*Prabhupāda: Big, big name. (laughter) So your name is Bhagavat*-citta dāsī. Bhagavat-citta. Citta means consciousness. Come on.



Brahmānanda: Harold?



Prabhupāda: What is the name?



*Brahmānanda: Hasta*-yajña.



*Prabhupāda: Hāsya*-yajña? (pause) So? Make it Hāsyānanda. Now get up. Come on. (laughter) So you know what is the rules and regulation?



*Hasyānanda: No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no gambling and no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: All right. Your name is Hāsyānanda, "who laughs in ecstasy, ecstasy, chanting."



Hāsyānanda: Thank you very much.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Next, come on.



Brahmānanda: Larry? Lakṣmaṇa dāsa.



Prabhupāda: So you know the rules and regulation? What are the rules?



*Larry: No meat*-eating, gambling, sex or intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Illicit sex. So, Śrī Lakṣmaṇa dāsa. You know Lakṣmaṇa dāsa? He is the younger brother of Rāmacandra. Lakṣmaṇa dāsa.



Brahmānanda: Stuart?



Prabhupāda: Why you are laughing? So everyone should have neckbeads immediately. You know the rules and regulations? What is that?



*Stuart: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex life, no intoxication and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Sutrajit.



Sutrajit: Jaya. Thank you, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. What are the rules and regulations? (child is crying in background, "I want my mommy!")



*Girl: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Suśarmā dāsī. She is your child? So you are married?



Suśarmā: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. (laughter)



Brahmānanda: Why is the child crying? Roy?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulation?



*Roy: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: And how many rounds you will chant?



Roy: At least sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Rāmalāla dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on, next.



Brahmānanda: Cheryl Nixon.



Prabhupāda: What are the regulations?



*Cheryl: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. Śaraṇāgatā? Śaraṇāgatā, it should be. Śaraṇāgatā, long 'a.' Śaraṇāgatā dāsī. "One who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa." (to next devotee:) What are the regulative principles? (boy answers) How many rounds you will chant? (answers) Thank you.



Brahmānanda: Bālika dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Bālika? It should be Bālaka, not Bālika. Bālaka. Your name is Bālaka dāsa. Bālaka, cowherd boy.



Brahmānanda: Michael Nixon.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



Michael: No eating meat, fish or eggs, no intoxication, no illicit sex, no mental speculating.



Prabhupāda: Mahājana dāsa. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājana means great authority. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Brahmānanda: Jim?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules?



*Jim: No meat*-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex and no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Kuvera dāsa. (laughter) Kuvera is the treasurer of the demigods. You have to bring money more. (laughter) We require money. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. When Kuvera wanted to give benediction to Dhruva Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja was very angry and was killing the descendants of Kuvera. And they were offender. The descendants of Kuvera killed Dhruva Mahārāja's brother; therefore he was retaliating. At that time somebody requested, Brahmā, I think, requested that "Now you just pacify yourself. You have done..." So he immediately stopped killing. So Kuvera became very much pleased that although he could kill all the descendants of Kuvera, he stopped it. So he came forward to give him some benediction. Kuvera is the richest treasurer. So he wanted to give some benediction. If Dhruva Mahārāja wanted, he could ask him that "Give me all the money of the universe." He could give. But what did he ask? He said, "Sir, give me benediction that I may remain attached to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa."



Devotees: Jaya!



*Prabhupāda: It is a great example. He could ask him for money, but no. "Give me benediction. You are offering me benediction, so give me this benediction, that my mind may always remain attached to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." Come on. So what are the rules and regulation? (girl answers) That's nice. Revatī dāsī. Regulative principles? (boy answers) Everyone is giving up meat*-eating. The slaughterhouse will be closed. (laughter) And the butchers are not very much pleased with us. (laughter) Never mind. We have to do this. Come on. What is the name?



Brahmānanda: Bṛhadbhānu dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Vratabhānu dāsa. That's nice. So everyone is unpleased except the devotees, for our movement. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the rules and regulation? (girl answers) All right, come on. What is the...?



Brahmānanda: Rasaparagni dāsī.



Prabhupāda: Rasa...?



Brahmānanda: Rasaparagni.



*Prabhupāda: Rasapara... Rasa*-parāyaṇī. Rasa-parāyaṇī. Correct it. One of the gopīs. Rasa-parāyaṇī dāsī, "one who wants to dance with Kṛṣṇa in rasa dance." No ball dance. Finished? All right. Now who shall explain the ten kinds of offenses and the meaning of the oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā and then perform yajña?



Karandhara: I shall.



Prabhupāda: So I can go?



Karandhara: Yes, Prabhupāda.



Devotees: Jaya! All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! (obeisances) (end)





730515IN.LA

Initiation Ceremony

-

Los Angeles, May 15, 1973



*Prabhupāda: So call. Come on. You know the principles? (devotee answers) You name is Arjuna dāsa. (pause) You know the rules and regulations? Yes. (devotee answers) So your name is Jagariṇī. Jagariṇī*-who is always awake, never sleeps. (laughter) This life is for jagaraṇa. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata. Everyone is sleeping, dull, like animals. The animals are sleeping. Although they are running very fast, but according to śāstra, they are sleeping because they do not know what is life. So anyone who does not know what is the value of life, he is sleeping. And one who knows what is the value of life, he is jāgrata. The Vedic injunction is this, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata: "Now, this time, in human form of life, you become awakened, and the benediction which you have got, utilize it." They do not know. They are just like animals, sleeping. Ignorance. Ignorance is sleeping. Does not know what is the value of life.



Come on. (pause) What are the rules? (devotee answers) So your name is Hāsyapriya, friend of Kṛṣṇa. (pause) You want? You want? Oh, they were not distributed prasādam? All right, wait. (laughter)

*So what are the rules and regulations? (devotee answers) Actually or theoretically? Thank you. What is the name? Ah, your name is Brahma*-rūpa. The impersonalists, they say Brahman has no rūpa. We say, "No, there is rūpa. That is Kṛṣṇa." Brahma-rūpa. Brahma-rūpa dāsa. (pause)

So you know the rules and regulations? (devotee answers) So you name is Nirakula dāsī. Nirakula. Akula means one who becomes confused, and nira means not. One who does not become confused, fixed up. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause)

What are the rules? (devotee answers) So your name is Loka-śaraṇya, one under whose lotus feet everyone takes shelter. That is Kṛṣṇa. Loka-śaraṇya. (pause)

What are the rules? (devotee answers) Cigarette allowed? Cigarette? That's all right. Rabindranātha. (pause)

So what are the rules? (devotee answers) Thank you. Your name is Tuṣṭī. Tuṣṭī means after eating, when you feel satisfaction, that is called tuṣṭī. So without eating, you have to become satisfied. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) (pause)

So you name is Tīrthārthī. Tīrtha means great saintly person. One who is hankering after a great saintly person, he is called Tīrthārthī. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So kīrtana? Next? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



731225IN.LA

Initiation Ceremony

-

Los Angeles, December 25, 1973



Karandhara: Prabhupāda, do you want to give the names to the new devotees before the kīrtana, and after the kīrtana go on the walk?



Prabhupāda: The name is not given?



Karandhara: No. I have the beads.



Prabhupāda: So without name, how can we give?



Karandhara: No, I have the names. Do you want to give them now?



Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. We can give. So come on. No, no, mantra, one mantra. That mantra. Chant mantra, then I will give the names. [break] ...such atmosphere. So we have to maintain this.



Karandhara: Jesus. (devotee comes up) (all spiritual names first told by Karandhara to Prabhupāda)



*Prabhupāda: Virāha. Virāha dāsa. I am not asking individually about the four principles. I suppose you know this. But just I was explaining sat and asat. These two things are side by side. Just like there is darkness and there is light, you can see merging in the sunlight. You'll see, one side is light, and one side is dark. Similarly, sat and asat, they are existing side by side. If you don't remain this side, then you come to this side. So it is my choice. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa is the bright side, and the other things, material activities and sinful activities, meat*-eating, intoxication, gambling, illicit sex, the dark side. So it is your choice. If you remain the bright side, then your progress is certain, and if you fall down again on the dark side, that is your misfortune. So you should always remember that. Come on.



Karandhara: Marcos.



*Prabhupāda: Your spiritual name*-Virabāhu dāsa.



Karandhara: Ilan.



Prabhupāda: Your name is Havi Dāsa.



Karandhara: Argenis.



Prabhupāda: Your name is Tamohara.



Karandhara: Manuel.



Prabhupāda: Your name is Pramāṇa dāsa.



Karandhara: Lynne.



Prabhupāda: Manīndra. Manīndra. That's all.



Karandhara: Cary.



Prabhupāda: So she has got another?



Karandhara: No, those are extra sets.



Prabhupāda: Oh. So your name is Kusumikā.



Karandhara: Kellyn.



Prabhupāda: Kartā dāsī.



Karandhara: Elba.



Prabhupāda: Varā dāsī. Vara means excellent.



Karandhara: Audrey.



Prabhupāda: Dhattreyī. Dhattreyī dāsī. That's all.



Karandhara: That's all, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. (end)





740110IN.LA

Initiations

-

Los Angeles, January 10, 1974



Prabhupāda: (All spiritual names first told to Śrīla Prabhupāda by Karandhara dāsa) So your spiritual name is Manobhirāma. Manobhirāma. Manobhirāma is Kṛṣṇa, who pleases everyone's mind. (pause)



There is all neckbeads, everyone? You knows the rules and regulation? Dhanurdharī. Not left. Yes. Dhanurdharī. Dhanurdharī is Lord Rāmacandra's name. (pause)

You know the rules and regulation? Here, take. Your spiritual name Gambhīra dāsa. Very grave. That is Kṛṣṇa. (pause)

*Bāṅke*-bihārī. Bāṅke means curved. Kṛṣṇa stands always this. That is Bāṅke-bihārī. He is not very straight, Kṛṣṇa. People are crooked, so He is the most crooked. (pause)

*Hari*-sevikā. Hari-sevikā, "maidservant of Kṛṣṇa." [break]

*Greedy for Kṛṣṇa. Tatra leulyam eka laulyam. To get Kṛṣṇa, you have only one price: to become greedy for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the only... [break] Tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyaṁ na janma*-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtibhir labhyate. (pause)

Divya. Divya. Your spiritual name is Divya. Divya means spiritual. (pause)

*Dhīra*-sevā. Dhīra-lalitā. Dhīra-sevā? No. Dhīra-sevī. She is woman. You know all the rules and regulation? Your name is Dhīra-sevī. Kṛṣṇa is Dhīra. Dhīra-lalitā. (pause)

*Sajjana*-jīvana. You know rules and regulations? Yes. Sajjana-jīvana. Sajjana-jīvana. Her life is very gentle.

*So thank you very much. Now begin chanting and yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. That is the yajña, saṅkīrtana. (end)



750222IN.CAR

Initiation Lecture

-

Caracas, February 22, 1975



(Hṛdayānanda translates into Spanish)

*Prabhupāda: This evening we were discussing with some learned psychiatrist to solve the problems of the world. So we have tried to convince them that the problems of the world are due to ignorance of our spiritual life. So this body... Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. This body means combination of different senses. This body means we have got hands, legs, eyes, ears, nose, tongue, genital, rectum. All these different parts of the body are working. So these senses are working under the leadership of the mind, and the mind is activated by intelligence, and behind the intelligence there is soul. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā:



indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ

indriyebhyaḥ paro manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhiḥ

buddhes tu ya paraṁ saḥ



So we have to take information from authoritative scriptures. So the body is made of five material elements: earth, water, air, fire and ether. So mind is still finer than the ether, and intelligence is still finer than the mind, and the soul is still finer than the intelligence. So generally, we are on the bodily platform. They are called karmīs. Bodily platform means that everyone is working for the bodily comfort. Bodily comforts means how to eat nicely, how to sleep nicely, how to have sex nicely and how to defend nicely. So these activities are there also in the animal life. Then, above these activities, there is mental activities. So the bodily activities are visible in the animal kingdom also, but mental activities, they are lacking. So the human being can tackle the mental activities, which is called psychology, the science of thinking, feeling and willing. So when still we go further, intellectual platform, how the mind should be utilized? So if we can intellectually utilize the mind, then we can approach the spiritual platform.



*So this spiritual platform, to reach, requires gradually process of cultivation, and there is no difficulty to reach the spiritual platform. But first of all, the training of the mind is practiced by the yoga system. Yoga means to control the mind. Our mind at the present moment, being too much attached to this body, it is busy in bodily comforts. Therefore the real yoga system is to divert the mind towards God, to control the mind from material engagement and divert it to spiritual engagement, or bhakti*-yoga. The bhakti-yoga practice are in different nine spheres, that,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*This means that first of all we have to hear about God from authorized persons. Then kīrtanam. Kīrtanam means glorifying the activities of God. Then there are other. These two items are very important, and there are other items also. Smaraṇam*-smaraṇam means meditation. Vandanam means offering prayer. So smaraṇaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam arcanam. Arcanam, Deity worship. There are other items also. In this way there are nine items. So if one is interested to understand God, then he must take all these items or some of them or at least one of them.



*So the most important item is śravaṇam, or hearing. If you do not do anything else, if you simply sincerely hear about God, then gradually you will be God conscious. That is also true in the material science. The students go to the school, college, and hear from the professor, and gradually he becomes learned in that subject matter. Especially in this age, śravaṇam, or hearing, is very, very important. We are therefore opening different centers in different parts of the world, and they are being given the chance of this bhakti*-yoga system, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23], like that. So all these devotees present here, they are not Indians. I have not brought them from India; *neither I have bribed them here. But by hearing only, they are now coming to God consciousness and devotees. Therefore this śravaṇam item, or hearing item, is very, very important. So if you all, ladies and gentlemen present here, take advantage of hearing about God from this institution, you will also become God conscious. We have got many sense organs, out of which the aural sense, or the hearing sense, is very important. Therefore, for spiritual understanding, we have to use this ear. So therefore the Vedic literature is called śruti. Śruti means to receive the knowledge by hearing. So our process, or the Vedic process, is that... Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya*-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. If one lends his aural reception of spiritual knowledge through the authorized person, devotee, then he relishes taste in spiritual life. And when you cultivate that stage, then, gradually, he becomes a devotee, he understands what is God.

*Another place, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Brahmā recommends,

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

*(jīvanti) san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

*sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir

*ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri*-lokyām



*The fact is God is called Ajita-nobody can conquer Him. But any person who gives up this process of mental speculation-that means "God may be like this. Perhaps God is like this. Perhaps this, perhaps this..." This is called mental speculation. We have to give up this mental speculation. Jñāne prayāsam means endeavor in mental speculation should be given up. One should submissively approach the spiritual master. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Namanta eva means submissively offering respect, obeisances. And after that, if you hear from the self-realized soul, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva san-mukharitām. San-mukharitām means self-realized soul. From his mouth one has to hear. Bhavadīya-vārtām. In this way, although God is never conquered by anyone else, still, this man, who has adopted this process, he will conquer God someday. And who can conquer God? Only the devotees. Just like in Vṛndāvana, the gopīs, the cowherd boys, mother Yaśodā, father Nanda and all of them, even the cows and calves, they conquered God, Kṛṣṇa. So this is the science of God, and we have got all these books translated into English, and other things are being translated in other languages. So we shall request you to understand, to hear about God. Then some day will come*-you will understand what is God, what is your relationship with Him, and you will act accordingly. Then your life will be successful.



*So the boys and girls who are now being initiated, they are entering the path of understanding God in this way. So there are some regulative principles. I think you have explained to them that no illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. God is pure. He is the purest. Therefore if we want to approach God, we must be pure. Just like without high temperature, nobody can enter into the fire, similarly, God is the topmost temperature. We must acquire that temperature; *then we can enter into the kingdom of God. So if you want to increase the temperature, you cannot pour water again on it. Just like if you have got wet wood, you cannot burn it very nicely, but if you collect dry wood, you can ignite very easily. So our material life is now saturated with all kinds of sins. The four pillars of sinful life are these: illicit sex, meat*-eating and intoxication and gambling. So if we stop these voluntarily, this is called austerity, austerity, tapasya. Austerity means voluntarily accept some painful condition. So those who are habituated to all these things, namely illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling, to give up these habits, it may become little painful in the beginning. But if you practice and pray to Kṛṣṇa that He will help, it is not difficult to give up these habits. And as soon as you give up this wetting process, the sinful life, then immediately you become fifty percent purified to approach God. Then, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you make further, further, more and more progress. And when you are completely free of all sinful reaction, then you understand God and you love him. In the contaminated stage, you are trying to love so many things, but you are frustrated. So if you can love God, then you will never be frustrated and your loving desires will be fulfilled. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are teaching all our students how to love God. That's all right.

So now you can go with your other function. (end)



Initiation Ceremony

-

Melbourne, July 1, 1974



740701IN.MEL



Prabhupāda: ...pundarikaksam sah bahya abhyantarah sucih: "I offer my respectful obeisances whose name, holy name, by remembering, by chanting, one becomes purified in either condition, purified or impurified," apavitraḥ, pavitraḥ, sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā, "in all circumstances."



So, so long we are in this material encagement we are supposed to be impurified. Because we are not purified, therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease. Just like diseased condition is impurified. It requires to be purified by medical treatment to get out of the disease. So, we living entities, we are part and parcel of God. Our original position is purified, but at the present moment we are contaminated. So, by chanting the holy name of the Lord we become purified. The holy name of the Lord and the Lord, identical. By association with the Supreme Lord directly, by chanting the holy name, we become purified. Oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā, yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam. Kṛṣṇa, His name is puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ. Puṇḍarīka means lotus flower; *akṣam means eyes*-whose eyes are just like the lotus flower. Lord Visnu, or Kṛṣṇa, is identified with lotus flower in so many places. His navel is like lotus flower, His eyes are like lotus flower, His feet, lotus feet. So, lotus is the comparison o the beauty of different limbs or parts of the body, transcendental body of Kṛṣṇa.



So those who are going to be initiated, they should understand that chanting of the holy name means directly associating with the Supreme Lord. So as I have given several times the example of the iron rod and the fire: if you touch the iron rod with the fire, it becomes warmer, warmer and then red hot. Similarly, when you chant offenselessly the holy name of the Lord, gradually you become purified, and when we chant holy name without any offense, then we immediately live at the shelter of Lord Kṛṣṇa. When we are almost free from contamination, then we become liberated, and when we chant purely the holy name, we are situated on the lotus feet of the Lord. And the more we go on chanting, we enjoy loving exchange affair between the Lord and ourself.



*So we will explain the ten kinds of offenses, and the initiated members should avoid the ten kinds of offenses. (aside) You have got the ten kinds of offenses? So first offense is to blaspheme great personalities who are engaged in glorifying the Lord within this material world. And, śruti-śāstra*-nindanam, and to decry the Vedic literature. And third, to interpret the holy name in different way according to our own whims. This is also offense. And the most dangerous offense is namnaḥ balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhir. Anyone who thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, so I am becoming free from contamination of sinful life, therefore let me commit sinful life and counteract it by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa," this is the greatest offense. We should not commit offenses on the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And then considering the different names of the demigods, they are independent-no. The Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's name, Viṣṇu's name, is Supreme; it cannot be equalized with other names. And, in spite of chanting he holy name, if one is attached to material enjoyment, that is also offense. And to instruct about the glories of the name to a person who is out of the jurisdiction of devotional service. Of course, sometimes we have to do this, but that is for preaching sake. But generally we should not do that. I think these ten kinds of offenses are there. Anything more?



Devotee (1): To take the chanting as auspicious material ritual.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct)*-karma. Just like to..., there are many auspicious activities to counteract inauspicious activities. So this chanting of holy name should not be taken as that. It is just for the matter of pleasing the Absolute Personality of Godhead. So, you chant mantra. Hmm.



Devotee (2): Bhakta Johnny, your name now is Rāmāi dāsa.



Prabhupāda: You know what are the prohibitive rules? Prohibitive rules?



Rāmāi dāsa: (indistinct).



Devotee (2): The four rules.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Rāmāi dāsa: (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: What is that?



*Rāmāi dāsa: No illicit sex. No meat*-eating. No gambling. No intoxication.



Prabhupāda: So your spiritual name... How many rounds do you chant?



Rāmāi dāsa: Sixteen rounds.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! ... (break)



Prabhupāda: It is not properly done. It should be stuck up. So, what are the prohibitive rules?



*Bhakta: No meat*-eating. No illicit sex. No gambling. No intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Mmm, and you will chant?



Bhakta: Sixteen rounds.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is his name?



Devotee (2): His spiritual name is Pūrṇacandra dāsa.



Devotees: Hari bol!



Prabhupāda: The neck beads must be tight.



Devotee (2): Next, next initiate is Bhakta Kenny... Bhaktin Penny.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Devotee (2): Big books.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Devotee (2): Distributes big books.



Prabhupāda: Acchā. So you are serving very nicely. I am very glad. So, what are the prohibitive rules?



*Bhaktin Penny: No illicit sex. No gambling. No meat*-eating. No intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. How many rounds will you chant?



Bhaktin Penny: Sixteen rounds every day.



Prabhupāda: Very good. What is her name?



Devotee (2): Bhaktin Penny's name is Śubha Lakṣmī dāsī.



Devotees: Hari bol! (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Bring money more.(laughter) Lakṣmī means money, (laughter) and śubha means auspicious. So long you bring money, you are auspicious. (laughter)



Devotee (2): The next initiate is Bhaktin Carol.



Prabhupāda: So your name is Rāja Lakṣmī.



Devotee (2): Rāja Lakṣmī. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Royal, Rāja means royal. So, what are the rules and regulation?



*Rāja Lakṣmī dāsī: No illicit sex. No meat*-eating or eating anything that's not prasādam. No intoxication. No gambling or speculation.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. How many rounds will you chant?



Raja Lakṣmī dāsī: Sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Raja Lakṣmī dāsī: Sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Minimum. (laughter)



Devotees: Hari bol!



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Devotee (2): The next initiate is Bhaktin Eleanor... (break)



*Bhaktin Eleanor: No intoxication. No illicit sex. No meat*-eating. No gambling or speculation.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. What is the name?



Devotee (2): Bhaktin Eleanor's name is Mohinī Śakti dāsī.



Devotees: Hari bol!



Prabhupāda: Very nice name. It is Kṛṣṇa's incarnation. She allured the demons. Kṛṣṇa in the form of a beautiful woman allured the demons. The demons become allured by Kṛṣṇa's mohinī śakti. And devotees they are inclined to serve Kṛṣṇa being blessed by Rādhārāṇī. Hare Kṛṣṇa! Come on.



Devotees: Hari bol!



Devotee (2): The next initiate is Bhaktin..., Bhaktin Sue.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules?



*Bhaktin Sue: No illicit sex. No meat*-eating. No gambling and no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: How many rounds will you chant?



Bhaktin Sue: Minimum sixteen.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. What is her name?



Devotee (2): Bhaktin Sue's name is Guṇavati dāsī.



Devotees: Hari bol!



Prabhupāda: Full of good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who is pure devotee of the Lord, all good qualities...(break ) (end)





750710IN.CHI

Lecture and Initiation

-

Chicago, July 10, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*anarpita*-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau

*samarpayitum unnataḥ ujjvala*-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam

*hariḥ puraṭa*-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ

*sadā hṛdaya*-kandare (sphuratu vaḥ) śacī-nandana



*This verse is given by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, anarpita*-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, has many expansion or incarnation, but this expansion, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is unique because in other incarnation the duty is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. In Kṛṣṇa avatāra, Kṛṣṇa had to fight with the so many demons, but this incarnation, there is no question of fighting with the demons, but simply by mercy they were delivered, just like Jagāi, Mādhāi. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta hoilo sei: "The same Personality of Godhead who was formerly the son of Nanda Mahārāja, Vrajendra-nandana, He has now appeared as the son of mother Śacī." Balarāma hoilo nitāi: "And Balarāma, Rohiṇī-nandana, He has become Nityānanda." The same Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma has become Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda Prabhu. So what is Their business? The business is: pāpī-tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. They delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra all people who were sinful and suffering. In the material world we are suffering. This is a place of suffering. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15], Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā. So there are different methods of mitigating suffering, but in this age, Kali-yuga, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, the pāpī-tāpī, those who are sinful and suffering, they can be delivered. This is the unique contribution of this incarnation, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is composed by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī.



*There are many other verses, and there is special one verse in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto:

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*Yajña, sacrifice... Yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. Human life is meant for performing yajña, give in charity and practice austerities, three things. Human life means that. Human life does not mean to live like cats and dogs. That is failure. That kind of civilization, dog civilization, is failure of human life. Human life is meant for three things: yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. One should know how to perform sacrifices, how to give in charity, and how to practice austerities. This is human life. So yajña-dāna-tapasya, in other ages they were performing according to the means. Just like in the Satya-yuga, Vālmīki Muni, he practiced austerities, meditation, for sixty thousands of years. At that time people were living hundred thousands of years. That is not possible now. Meditation was possible in those ages, but now it is not possible. Therefore the śāstra recommends that yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ: "You perform this yajña, saṅkīrtana." So by performing saṅkīrtana-yajña, you can get the same result. As Vālmīki Muni got the result after meditation of sixty thousands of years, you can have the same result simply by performing saṅkīrtana-yajña maybe a few days. It is so kindness.



*So I am very glad that in the Western countries, especially in America, you fortunate boys and girls, you have joined in this saṅkīrtana*-yajña. People are appreciating. I am also very much pleased. So this yajña, as you have taken the Deity in buses, going to the interior and performing yajña... Continue this process until your whole country nationally accept this creed.

Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: They will accept. It is predicted by Caitanya Mahāprabhu,



*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu desired that in every village, every town, every county, every city, this saṅkīrtana movement will be there, and people will feel obliged to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "My Lord, You have given us so sublime thing." This is the prediction. Simply we have to try our best. So it is not very difficult. You have installed the Deity. Take in different buses and go from city to city, town to town, village to village. And you have got now experience, so expand this movement. As I have repeatedly told you that your country, America, is fortunate, and they require only this, saṅkīrtana... Then they will be perfect. I was discussing so many things yesterday-perhaps you have seen in the paper*-that a thorough overhauling required, spiritual overhauling. Now, at the present moment things are going not very nicely. Materially, don't be sorry that this racing will not help us in our spiritual life. Materially be advanced, but don't forget your spiritual duty and spiritual identity. Then it is loss. Then it is śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8], simply working for nothing, just like your moon expedition, simply a waste of time and unnecessarily expenditure of money. So many billions of dollars you have spoiled, and what you have got? A little dust, that's all. Don't be foolish in that way. Just be practical. If such huge amount of money, dollars, would have been spent in distributing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over your country, then immense benefit would have been achieved. Anyway, we cannot say anything. Your money you can squander away. That is your business. But we request the authorities and the sane men that you take up this saṅkīrtana movement, especially in America, and expand this to other parts of the world, Europe, Asia. You have got already honor as the richest nation of the world. You have got intelligence. You have got everything. Just take up this movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, with patience and with diligence and intelligence. It is very easy. You are already experienced. Do not stop it. Increase more and more. Your country will be happy, and the whole world will be happy.



Thank you very much. So?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think now we have to give the spiritual names to these devotees?



Prabhupāda: Yes, but they have to..., purification mantra. Nama apavitraḥ pavit... So who will lead?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Viṣṇujana Mahārāja.



Prabhupāda: Do it. Nama, (devotees respond) apavitraḥ, pavitro vā.



Viṣṇujana: (leads chanting of mantra three times)



Devotee: (asks Prabhupāda during the chanting of mantras:) Should we arrange all the men to come up and...?



Prabhupāda: It is not possible. [break] ...later on. In the meantime, you can take your beads, and after it is distributed, you can explain and then perform yajña. Give me. Come on.



Śrī Govinda: Sai?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where's Bhakta Sai? (end)





750711IN.CHI

Bābājī Initiation

-

Chicago, July 11, 1975



Prabhupāda: ...I am accepting this dress following the footprints of other ācāryas. This dress was accepted by Rūpa Gosvāmī, not ordinary person. The six Gosvāmīs, they accepted. It is called paramahaṁsa stage, sannyāsī's highest stage. Sannyāsī has got four stages: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājakācārya and paramahaṁsa. Kuṭīcaka means when he takes sannyāsa, he is not accustomed to beg; therefore he makes a small cottage outside the village, and the foodstuff comes from the home or somebody sends. In this way, when he is little practiced, then he goes door to door, begs, bahūdaka. Then he is more practiced: parivrājakācārya, he travels all over the world. And after that, when he is fully mature, he can chant one place Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has no more business. So this is the last stage of mature sannyāsa. But because you are thinking that you may not live many years, so you simply sit down, go to Māyāpur. You have no other business. Simply go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and whatever little prasādam available, you take. And the rest of your life simply engage in chanting. That will be success.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is he supposed to get a name, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Name is the same.



Brahmānanda: Audolomi dāsa Bābājī?



Prabhupāda: Ah, Audolomi dāsa Bābājī. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this is the first time in our institution: a bābājī. So it is not to be imitated. It is the paramahaṁsa stage when one is very mature in sannyāsa life, for that, not for ordinary person. Don't request, "Give me sannyāsa. Give me bābājī." Don't do that. It is not a fashion. It is a stage of realization. That's all. (end)





750721IN.SF

Gurudāsa Sannyāsa Initiation

-

San Francisco, July 21, 1975



*Prabhupāda: So the mantra means etām, "by accepting this daṇḍa or sannyāsa order," sa āsthāya, "taking shelter of it," parātma*-niṣṭhām... This accepting of this daṇḍa means full faith in the Supreme. There are four rods within this bundle. One rod is representing himself, and the other three rods means his body, mind, and word. So the person who is accepting sannyāsa order, he is dedicating from this moment his personality, his body, his mind and his words. Why? Now, parātma-niṣṭhām, simply for service of the Supreme. So am I accepting something new? No. Upāsitāṁ pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ. All the great personalities in our guru paramparā system, all the four ācārya system, they have done it. Rāmānujācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka-there are four Vaiṣṇava sampradāyas. So they were all sannyāsīs. Now, directly, our sampradāya is Madhva-Gauḍīya-sampradāya. Gauḍīya-sampradāya means the Vaiṣṇavas of the Bengal. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is accepted as the supreme guru of this sampradāya. So His guru was Īśvara Purī, and his guru was Mādhavendra Purī. And this Mādhavendra Purī belonged to the Madhva-sampradāya; *therefore our sampradāya, this disciplic succession, is called Madhva*-Gauḍīya sampradāya.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also accepted sannyāsa in very young age, when He was only twenty*-five years. So why? Tyaktvā tūrṇam, rājya-lakṣmīṁ dharmiṣṭha ārya-vacasā yad agād araṇyam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very, very well situated. He was born in a very respectable high brāhmaṇa family, Jagannātha Miśra, and mother's side, the Nīlāmbara Cakravartī, he was very respectable brāhmaṇa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu's learning, nobody could excel Him, He was so learned scholar. And when He was sixteen years old, He defeated one of the most learned scholar of India, Keśava Bhāratī. So learning, family... And wife? Personally goddess of fortune, Lakṣmīpriyā and Viṣṇupriyā, most beautiful and young. Viṣṇupriyā was His second wife, so faithful, so beautiful, personally goddess of fortune, such wife. And mother, most affectionate. There is no comparison with Śacī-mātā. So this was... And influence? When He was twenty years old, He could, by His command, gather 100,000 people to protest against Kazi, He was so popular. So popularity, born in high family, having good wife and good mother, everything complete-still, He took sannyāsa. Therefore it is said, pūrvatamair mahadbhiḥ. Why? Now, just to show mercy to the fallen souls. Māyā-mṛgaṁ dayitayā [SB 11.5.34]. Just to show mercy to the fallen souls. This the the meaning of sannyāsa. One must be very merciful. Vaiṣṇavas, they are merciful. All devotees of God, Vaiṣṇava, they are merciful. You know Lord Jesus Christ, how he was merciful.

*So this human life is meant for paropakāra, for doing good to others. So therefore sannyāsa order means one that dedicates his whole life by word, by body and by mind, everything. So the result is that because he is sacrificing his all material connection*-sannyāsa means all material connection-so the result will be, ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāram. Result will... Because he is sacrificing everything for dedicating life for the service of Kṛṣṇa... And Kṛṣṇa warns that all these rascals should give up everything and surrender to Him. So you have to teach this, that's all. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. What Kṛṣṇa desires? He comes personally, and He instructs rascals like us, "You rascal, give up all these things, material engagement. Come to Me, back to home, back to Godhead." This is Kṛṣṇa's desire. So we have to preach that. We haven't got to manufacture anything. Kṛṣṇa says everything. We have to simply bear the message. Kṛṣṇa says like this. You do like this. That's all. You become a perfect sannyāsī and you perfect. And by doing this, result will be, ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāram. This material world, the ocean of nescience, it is very, very difficult to cross it over, but by doing this service to Kṛṣṇa, one can easily... Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padam. Bhavāmbudhiḥ, the great ocean, becomes just like a water spot in the hoofprint of a calf. There is hoofprint, and there is some water. So there is no difficulty to cross over it. So the bhavāmbudhiḥ becomes like that. Duranta-pāram. Why it is duranta? Tama, darkness. So mukundāṅghri-niṣevaya. Mukunda means Kṛṣṇa. Muk means liberation, mukti. So Mukunda, "one who gives liberation." That is Kṛṣṇa's name. Mukundāṅghri. Anghri means His lotus feet.

*So this is our life. Everyone should take sannyāsa. But because it is Kali*-yuga, it is restricted because it is very difficult. But as far as possible, we have to preach the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So although it is little difficult, so we should practice it, especially those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and for preaching work should take sannyāsa, particularly of our Guru dāsa. Now he is Guru dāsa Swami, his name is. So his particular life is: since the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is my faithful disciple, and from 1965 or '6, he is with me. And he is very innocent boy, and I got him married. His wife is also great devotee, you know, Yamunā. So now Yamunā has taken a very nice path. She has also become sannyāsīnī. Although there is no sannyāsīnī for women, but she has voluntarily taken. She is doing very nice; *therefore I advised her husband that "You also take sannyāsa." Because wife's affection is very, very tight knot. It is stated, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ [SB 5.5.8]. Naturally there is tendency*-a man wants woman; *a woman wants man. This is the material world, puṁsaṁ striyā mithunī*-bhāvam, sex impetus. That is natural. But when they are united, that impact becomes very, very tight. It is very difficult. It is very difficult to give it up. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that his wife has voluntarily has become like sannyāsīnī. So it is very good fortune. Therefore I advised him that instead of accepting another wife, you also become sannyāsī. So he is my faithful disciple. He has accepted. And all of you Vaiṣṇavas, give your good wishes that he can keep the sannyāsa order very nicely and preach Kṛṣṇa through the rest of the life. His life will become successful.

Thank you very much. [break] Next? Your spiritual name, Kavirāja dāsa.

Nitāi: Ramyaka dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Ramyaka dāsa. Ramyaka means very beautiful. That is Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is more beautiful than Kṛṣṇa. Asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam. Although He is blackish, but nobody is more beautiful than Kṛṣṇa. You are all white. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa.



(next devotee approaches) Alambana dāsa. Alambana means reference to the context. Just like there was a great devotee of Lord Caitanya, Murāri Gupta. He was a physician of the Nawab. So he was going on the back of the elephant with the Nawab, and he saw one peacock. So as soon as saw the feather of peacock, immediately he fell down. How? Because the peacock feather is on the head of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately remembered Kṛṣṇa. This is called alambana, "with reference to the context."

*(next devotee approaches) Meru*-devī, yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Nitāi: Next, Tom... Gohita dāsa.



Prabhupāda: So Gohita dāsa, yes.



Nitāi: Mahākrama.



Prabhupāda: Mahākrama dāsa.



*Nitāi: Pravala*-devī.



*Prabhupāda: Pravala*-devī. Sundarī-dāsī. Darpada dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Dānakelī dāsī. Vaiyāsaki dāsa. Vaiyāsaki means Śukadeva Gosvāmī's another name. So Badarāyaṇi dāsa. Sadārtheya dāsa. Samapriya dāsī. That's all? So, I shall go?



Devotees: Śrīla Prabhupāda! Śrīla Prabhupāda! Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)





751118IN.BOM

Sannyāsa Initiation

-

Bombay, November 18, 1975



*Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means that finishing all material desires. The sannyāsa means, real sannyāsa, means no more material desires. It is the beginning of spiritual life. Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma*-niṣṭhā. Parātmā, Bhagavān... To completely devote one's life for service of the Lord. There are āśramas, four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So sannyāsa means everything sacrificed for Kṛṣṇa's sake. Anāśrita-karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī. Anyone who is working without any aspiration for resultant action.... Our sannyāsīs, they work very hard, preach, they collect money-but not a single farthing for himself. The first of all, the brahmacārī is trained up. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam [SB 7.12.1]. Brahmacārī is trained up to live at the place of guru for the benefit of guru. The same principle, when it is matured and when one dedicates his life for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa... Benefit of Kṛṣṇa means benefit of the whole world. Kṛṣṇa wants sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. A sannyāsī should go door to door. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛṇāṁ grhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. A sannyāsī is called mahātmā. Why he is mahātmā? Because his ātmā is now broader. Gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. Mahad-vicalanam. Mahātmā travels or wanders country to country, door to door-mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛṇāṁ gṛhiṇām-especially for the householders, dīna-cetasām, whose consciousness or mind is very crippled. They are dīna-cetasām. All these materialistic person, they are simply interested how to enjoy senses; *therefore they are called dīna*-cetasām, cripple minded. They have no other idea. So to enlighten them it is the duty of the sannyāsī to go from door to door, country to country, just to teach them about the aim of life. That is still going on in India. Still, if a sannyāsī goes in a village, people will come to invite him, try to hear from him.



*So you are taking this pledge for serving in front of Kṛṣṇa, Vaiṣṇava, guru, and fire. So you shall be very much cautious not to forget your duty. You have got good opportunity. You are going to Africa to deliver these persons. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā [SB 2.4.18]. These groups of men are considered very fallen, kirāta, the black men. They are called niṣāda. Niṣāda was born of Vena, King Vena. So they are habituated to steal; *therefore they have been given a separate place, African jungles. That is there in the Bhāgavatam. So, but everyone can be delivered. Kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā. These are known (as) sinful life. But Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "There may be others which is not mentioned here." Ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ: "If they take shelter of a Vaiṣṇava," śudhyanti, "they become purified." So you have to become very rigid Vaiṣṇava; *then you will be able to deliver them. Śudhyanti. How they can be purified without taking another birth? Yes. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Because Vaiṣṇava is going to deliver them, by the power of Viṣṇu they become empowered. So practically we have seen last time when I went to Nairobi, so many, these Africans, they are making progress very nicely. They are making nice questions. They are following rules and regulation. So African people, they are not so much sophisticated or so*-called civilized to forget God. But if you work sincerely and if you can deliver one person only by your endeavor, then immediately you become recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ. This is the quickest way to become recognized by Kṛṣṇa, by preaching work.

*So be seriously... You take. This business is very nice, and there is good prospect. Prospect is there for everywhere. It is not that... Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that as there are as many villages and as many towns on the surface of the globe. So His word is not a trifle thing. Yes. There is potency in all the parts of the world to become Vaiṣṇava.

*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grama

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*So with Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessing and spiritual strength and with the good wishes of Vaiṣṇavas, just proceed and preach and always think of Kṛṣṇa. He will help. Buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. If you sincerely work... Kṛṣṇa is within yourself. He will give you strength, instruction. Simply you have to become... But we should always remember that sannyāsa means material activities finished. This is sannyāsa: no more material activities. Only for the service of Kṛṣṇa to live, that's all. (aside:) Give the daṇḍa. So this daṇḍa, there are four daṇḍas. Daṇḍas mean rods. One rod is body, one rod is mind, and one rod is speaking. Kaya mana vākya. And the fourth rod is the self. So you should always remember that taking this daṇḍa means that "My mind, my body, and my words-everything is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. It will be used only for Kṛṣṇa and for no other purpose." This is called tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa. Come on.



Devotees: Jaya. Haribol. Jaya Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) (end)





760205IN.MAY

Excerpt from Sannyāsa Initiation

of Viraha Prakāśa Swami

-

Māyāpur, February 5, 1976



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "This was spoken by a brāhmaṇa from Avantī deśa. 'I shall cross over the insurmountable ocean of nescience by being firmly fixed in the service of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. This was approved by the previous ācāryas, who are fixed in firm devotion to the Lord, Paramātmā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' " Purport. "In connection with this verse, which is a quotation from the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Twenty-third Chapter, fifty-eighth verse, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura says that of the sixty-four items required for rendering devotional service, acceptance of the symbolic marks of sannyāsa is a regulative principle. If one accepts the sannyāsa order, his main business is to devote his life completely to the service of Mukunda, Kṛṣṇa. If one does not completely devote his mind and body to the service of the Lord, he does not actually become a sannyāsī. It is not simply a matter of changing dress. In Bhagavad-gītā, Sixth Chapter, first verse, it is also stated, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca: [Bg. 6.1] 'One who works devotedly for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa is a sannyāsī.' The dress is not sannyāsa, but the attitude of service to Kṛṣṇa is. The word paramātmā niṣṭhā means being a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Parātmā-vigraha. Parātmā, the Supreme Person, is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Those who are completely dedicated to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in service are actually sannyāsīs. As a matter of formality, the devotee accepts the sannyāsa dress as previous ācāryas did. He also accepts the three daṇḍas. Later, Viṣṇu Svāmī considered that accepting the dress of a tridaṇḍa was parātma-niṣṭhā. Therefore sincere devotees add another daṇḍa, the jīva daṇḍa, to the three existing daṇḍas. The Vaiṣṇava sannyāsī is known as tridaṇḍī-sannyāsī. The Māyāvādī sannyāsī accepts only one daṇḍa, not understanding the purpose of tridaṇḍa. Later, many persons in the community of Śiva Swami gave up the ātma-niṣṭhā, devotional service of the Lord, and followed the paths of Śaṅkarācārya. Instead of accepting 108 names, those in the Śiva Swami sampradāya follow the path of Śaṅkarācārya and accept the ten names of sannyāsa. Although Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted the then existing order of sannyāsa, namely ekadaṇḍa, He still recited from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa accepted by the brāhmaṇa of Avantīpura. Indirectly He declared that within the ekadaṇḍa, one daṇḍa, four daṇḍas existed as one. Accepting ekadaṇḍa sannyāsa without parātma-niṣṭhā, devotional service to Lord Kṛṣṇa, is not acceptable to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In addition, according to the exact regulative principles, one should add the jīva-daṇḍa to the tridaṇḍa. These four daṇḍas bound together as one are symbolic of unalloyed devotional service to the Lord. Because the ekadaṇḍī-sannyāsīs of the Māyāvāda school are not devoted to the service of Kṛṣṇa, they try to merge into the Brahman effulgence, which is a marginal position between material and spiritual existence. They accept this impersonal position as liberation. Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, not knowing that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a tridaṇḍī, think of Caitanya Mahāprabhu as an ekadaṇḍī sannyāsī. This is due to their vivarta, bewilderment. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is no such thing as ekadaṇḍī sannyāsī. Indeed, the tridaṇḍī-sannyāsī is accepted as the symbolic representation of the sannyāsa order. By citing this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted the sannyāsa order recommended in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, who are enamored of the external energy of the Lord, cannot understand the mind of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. To date, all the devotees of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu following in His footsteps accept the sannyāsa order and keep the sacred thread and tuft of unshaved hair. The ekadaṇḍī-sannyāsīs of the Māyāvādī school give up the sacred thread and do not keep any tuft of hair. Therefore they are unable to understand the purport of tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa, and as such, they are not inclined to dedicate their lives to the service of Mukunda. They simply think of merging into the existence of Brahman because of their disgust with material existence. The ācāryas who advocate the daiva-varṇāśrama, the social order of cātur-varṇyam mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā, do not accept the proposition of asura-varṇāśrama, which maintains the social code of varṇa is indicated by birth. The most intimate devotee of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, namely Gadādhara Paṇḍita, accepted tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa and also accepted Mādhava-upādhyāya as his tridaṇḍī-sannyāsī disciple. It is said that from this Madhvācārya, the sampradāya known in Western India as Vallabhācārya sampradāya has begun. Śrīla Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Bose(?), who is known as smṛti-ācārya in the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, later accepted the tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa from Tridaṇḍipāda Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. Although acceptance of tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa is not distinctly mentioned in the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava literature, the first verse of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī's Upadeśāmṛta advocates that one should accept the tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa order by controlling the six forces:



*vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha*-vegaṁ

*jihvā*-vegam udaropastha-vegam

etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ

sarvām apīmāṁ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt

[No I 1]



'One who can control the forces of speech, mind, anger, belly, tongue and genitals is known as a gosvāmī and is competent to accept disciples all over the world.' The followers of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu never accepted the Māyāvāda order of sannyāsa, and for this, they cannot be blamed. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted Śrīdhara Swami, who was a tridaṇḍī sannyāsī, but the Māyāvāda sannyāsīs, not understanding Śrīdhara Swami, sometimes think that Śrīdhara Swami belonged to the Māyāvāda ekadaṇḍa sannyāsa community. Actually this was not the case."



*Prabhupāda: So you should understand the purpose of taking sannyāsa by the example given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself. It is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam,



*tyaktvā su*-dustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ

*dharmiṣṭha ārya*-vacasā yad agād araṇyam

*māyā*-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvad

*vande mahā*-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam

[SB 11.5.34]



Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was resident of this place where you are taking sannyāsa. So what was the purpose of His taking sannyāsa? He was very respectable brāhmaṇa, Nimāi Paṇḍita. This tract of land, Navadvīpa, is the place of highly educated brāhmaṇas from time immemorial. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu belonged to a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, the son of Jagannātha Miśra, His grandfather, Nīlāmbara Cakravartī, very respectful, respectable persons. He took birth in that family. Personally He was very beautiful; therefore His another name is Gaurasundara. And He was very learned scholar also; therefore His another name is Nimāi Paṇḍita. So, and in His family life He had very nice, beautiful young wife, Viṣṇupriyā, and very affectionate mother, and He was very influential. You know that. In one day He collected about one hundred thousand followers to protest against the Kazi's order. So in this way His social position was very favorable. Personal position was very favorable. Still, He took sannyāsa, left home. Why? Dayitaye, in order to favor, in order to show mercy to the fallen souls of the world.



So He left a legacy that anyone who has taken birth in India,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*So He exhibited personally how to do para*-upakāra, welfare to others, fallen souls. So this sannyāsa means following the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu that,



āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tara' ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*So not only... We are trying to create a position that not only the Indians have got this responsibility, but according to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, anyone-pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma*-they should take up this missionary work. And I am so much obliged to you, you American boys and girls also, that you have taken this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously. And by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu you are taking sannyāsa, some of you. Keep it very perfectly and go from town to town, city to city, village to village, all over the world and spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so that everyone will be happy. People are very much suffering. Because they are mūḍhas, rascals, they do not know how to adjust living condition in human form. This is the bhāgavata-dharma everywhere. So the human form is not to become a dog, hog, pig. You should become a perfect human being. Śuddhyet sattva. Purify your existence. Why you are subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease? Because we are impure. Now if we purify our existence, then there will be no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. That is the version of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa Himself. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you become purified and you escape the contamination of birth, death, old age and disease. So try to convince the people in general, the philosophers, the religionists. We have no such thing, sectarian view. Anyone can join this movement and become purified himself. Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra. So I am very much pleased. You have given already service to the society. Now you take up sannyāsa and preach all over the world so that people may be benefited.



Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!



Prabhupāda: The daṇḍa. Take this and offer obeisances. So add to your name "Swami," that's all. What is his name?



Devotee: Viraha.



*Prabhupāda: Viraha Prakāśa Swami. Bow down. Viraha Prakāśa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the symbolic of viraha prakāśa. Govinda*-viraheṇa me. He says, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. That is viraha-prakāśa, that "Everything is vacant for me without Govinda." That is called viraha. So we should be mad after Govinda. That is govinda-viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





760316IN.MAY

Sannyāsa Initiation

-

Māyāpur, March 16, 1976



Prabhupāda: The mantra,



namaḥ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ



*So this purificatory process... According to Vedic system, there is purificatory process. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. "By birth everyone is born a śūdra." A śūdra means without any knowledge and simply full of lamentation. Śocati. So the Vedic process is that, from the low-grade position, to bring the human society to the highest, topmost position. Generally it is... The first, topmost position is to become a brāhmaṇa in the society. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Four divisions of the social system are there according to quality and work. That is very natural in this world. Everyone is accepted on quality and work. If you have got a qualification of a good lawyer and if you have done very nicely your activities, then you are selected as the high-court judge. The high-court judge is selected amongst the lawyers in the court. It is not appointed from outside. The... A lawyer who has done his legal profession very nicely, the government offers him the post, that "You become a high-court judge." So this quality and work is estimated everywhere and in all circumstances. So Bhagavad-gītā recommends*-Kṛṣṇa says personally, the Supreme Personality of Godhead-cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. So that process is applicable at all times. And Nārada Muni, he also gave description to Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja while they were talking about the varṇāśrama. So Nārada Muni gave different symptoms of different varṇa: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Then, at the conclusion, he said,



yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ

(puṁso) varṇābhivyañjakam

yady anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

[SB 7.11.35]



*He said that "I have already explained the different symptoms of different varṇas-'Brāhmaṇa will be like that. Kṣatriya will be like that. Vaiśyas will be like that. Śūdras will be like that.' So," he says, "if these symptoms are found," anyatra... Suppose one is not born in the brāhmaṇa family, he might have taken birth in a lower family, but he has acquired... If he has acquired the qualities of a brāhmaṇa, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. This is the process. Or if one is born in a brāhmaṇa family but he has not attained the qualities, neither he is working as a brāhmaṇa, then he should be accepted*-either kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra. So this is the system. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also wanted to introduce this system.



kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*He never accepted this, that by birth, no. Either he is a brāhmaṇa or he is a śūdra, by caste or by birth, kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya, either he's a gṛhastha or a sannyāsī, it doesn't matter. He can become a guru. How? Yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā. One who knows the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one who understands Kṛṣṇa, he can become a guru. So guru is the post given to the sannyāsīs, to the brāhmaṇas. Without becoming a brāhmaṇa, nobody can become a sannyāsī, and sannyāsī is supposed to be the guru of both all the āśramas and all the varṇas. So the preaching work... We require so many sannyāsīs. People are suffering all over the world for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that there is no scarcity. This is false propaganda. The only scarcity is that there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the difficulty. Actually that is the fact.



*Take some practical example. I have traveled all over the world many times. I have seen America from village to village, Africa, Australia. There is so much land vacant that if we properly utilize that, we can produce so much food grains that we can feed ten times as many population as it is now. That's a fact. We do not utilize the land properly. And Kṛṣṇa has given us the formula, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: "You produce anna." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Then the animals and the human being will be well*-fed and they will be happy. If anyone, either animal or man has his belly filled up with sufficient food, he'll never be dissatisfied. That is the nature. So unfortunately we are not following the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. If we follow the whole social system, political system, economic system of the whole world will be very, very nice, and everyone will live very peacefully and there will be no fight, no ism, no schism. Everything will be all right. That is the purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a matter of sentiment. No, it is practical. The...

*Just like in America they produce huge amount of grains. Sometimes they throw it in the sea on account of overproduction. Why overproduction should be given on the sea? It should be utilized. There are so many people starving. But this political situation is there that everyone is thinking "This is my country. This is my home. This is my land." This is called māyā. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti. Everyone is under this impression, "I am this body, and anything belonging to this body, that is mine." or "my nation." This conception should be given up. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to the Supreme Lord. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, the same thing is confirmed.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*The śānti... Everyone is trying to have peace*-peace of the mind, peace of the society, peace of the nation. Very good. But you do not know how to get this peace. That is described in every Vedic literatures. Therefore Vedic knowledge is so important. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The Supreme Lord is the leader. He's also a living being like us. He's not a dead stone. He is... Just like Kṛṣṇa. When He comes, He lives like us, just like human being. So similarly the... No, not similarly. Kṛṣṇa is a living being like us. He has got also two hands, two legs, one head, as you have got. But what is the difference between you and Him? The difference is that eka, that singular number living being, vidadhāti kāmān bahūnām, He maintains everyone, and we are maintained. That is the difference. We plural number living entities, we are maintained, and He, the Supreme Lord, being Supreme Being...



In the dictionary, English dictionary, God means Supreme Being. So Supreme Being, He's also living being. He's not a dead stone. The difference is that He is the maintainer, and we are maintained. He is the ruler; we are ruled. This difference we have to understand. And He is the proprietor; we are servants. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is this. That is a fact. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. So this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is being spread all over the world for the peace of the world, for the peace of the mind, for the peace of the society. So take it very seriously. It is very authorized. It is not a concocted speculation, it is fact. And it is happening so. Now these American boys and girls who have come, spending thousands of rupees here... And they have no such distinction that "Here is Indian. He is African. He is brāhmaṇa. He's kṣatriya." Why? Because they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So this movement is so important that everyone from every part of the world, they should take part in this movement, and there will be peace in the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthday is today. In this land, in this very spot we are sitting now, He appeared for this mission. And He said that

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haile yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*And that is being done. And the people from all parts of the world, they are responding. There is very, very good scope for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and learned circle, important men in all parts of the society and world, they are appreciating this mission. Bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya... It was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's desire that especially those who are born in India, and especially in Bengal, because Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared in this land of Bengal, so it is the duty to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But unfortunately they are not coming forward.



*Anyway, it doesn't matter whether he is Bengali or am Hindu or Muslim. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And there is great necessity, great necessity. And the preaching work is meant for the sannyāsīs. So we have got some sannyāsīs who are doing very nicely, so today we shall make a number of sannyāsīs more to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. And those who are going to take sannyāsa, they should remember how much responsibility they have got. So live like a very strict sannyāsī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu took Himself sannyāsa at the age of twenty*-four years. So it is not that in old age one has to take sannyāsa. That is not in the śāstra. From brahmacārī āśrama one can enter into the gṛhastha-āśrama or vānaprastha-āśrama or sannyāsa-āśrama as he thinks fit. There is no such rules and regulation that only the old man without any energy, he'll take sannyāsa. No. Rather, the young men...

*Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu did personally. He was twenty*-four years old. He had beautiful wife, young wife, sixteen years old, at home, very, very affectionate mother, and His position was very great. Not as a brāhmaṇa, but still, as young man He could collect 100,000's of men by His order only, to make civil disobedience movement upon the Kazi, in this land. So the civil disobedience movement was started by Caitanya Mahāprabhu for a good cause. So there are so many things. I especially appeal to the native of this land to take part in this movement of Caitanya Mahāprabhu for the benefit of the world. And we are trying to construct a very attractive temple here. Let them cooperate. It doesn't matter whether he is Hindu, Muslim. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is for everyone. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted Haridāsa Ṭhākura as His chief disciple. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was born in a Muhammadan family, and his mission was to introduce this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva... [Cc. Ādi 17.21].

Devotees: Nāsty eva gatir anyathā.



Prabhupāda: And He made Haridāsa Ṭhākura Namācārya, the ācārya to introduce Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting three lakhs, counting daily. That means the whole day and night. So, so nice movement, everyone should take part in it and dedicate to the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And it is not at all difficult. It is very easy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,



āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Anywhere, either you are in this district or that district, it doesn't matter. Either you are at home or outside home, it doesn't matter. You become a guru. Everyone. "How shall I become guru? I have no qualification." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "You don't require any qualification. You simply require one qualification, that you repeat the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā. That's all." Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. You become a guru. Don't adulterate kṛṣṇa-upadeśa like a rascal or nonsense. Present it as it is, Bhagavad-gītā. Then you become a guru. You can become a guru in your family. You can guru your society, your nation, wherever you are. And if it is possible, you go outside and preach this mission of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore our movement's name is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, you accept and preach. You become guru.



Thank you very much. (end)



760404IN.VRN

Initiation Talk Excerpt

-

Vṛndāvana, April 4, 1976



*Prabhupāda: ...that we manufacture devotees from any part of the world. Kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ [SB 2.4.18]. Just immediately we initiated a devotee, Bhrgu Muni dāsa. He is from Iran. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is this, that



*pṛthivite āche yata nagarādi*-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that in every village and every town on the surface of the globe should at least hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. So what is your country?



Devotee (1): The United States.



Prabhupāda: The United States. United States, of course, it is going on. In Brazil, other countries, now they spreading. So do it very nicely. What is that?



*Devotee (2): Parama*-karuṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Parama*-karuṇa dāsa. Come on.



Devotees: Jaya. Haribol.



Prabhupāda: [break]



*...kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*(Hindi?) Huh? And the name? [break] Those who are initiated this evening, I have several times explained what is the meaning of initiation. Initiation means beginning of receiving transcendental knowledge. In the Vedas it is enjoined that in order to understand the transcendental science, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. The human form of life is meant for understanding transcendental knowledge. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. So everyone should be interested to understand the Absolute Truth. But this is Kali-yuga. Practically nobody is interested. The symptoms of Kali-yuga is mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. They are very slow or all bad, mandāḥ. And even if one is little anxious, he is victimized by some false way. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. And manda-bhāgyā. Therefore preaching is required to awaken them to spiritual consciousness. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to awaken the victimized soul to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa personally comes to awaken this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's servants, they also try to do the same business on behalf of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore Kṛṣṇa recognizes such preachers as very, very dear to Him. Na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya*-kṛttamaḥ. So the whole world is suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So those who are initiated, they should decide that "In this life we shall simply serve Kṛṣṇa." That should be the... Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Bhajanti māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ.



*So this is the... Initiation means beginning. Now, if you follow the rules and regulation*-no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication up to the drinking of tea and smoking and chewing pan... So these are considered as the four pillars of sinful life. So nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa with sinful activities. That is not possible.

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmāṇām

*te dvanda*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ



*So if you are actually serious, approaching Kṛṣṇa-He is paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam [Bg. 10.12]*-you have to cleanse yourself from all sinful activities. So therefore we request everyone to give up these habits: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. Then he becomes gradually purified. And if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. One side, he should personally endeavor, and other side, he should chant, ceto-darpaṇa, the method of cleansing the heart.



*So we have got many śāstric evidences how one can become completely sinless simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra and observing very strictly the four prohibitive rules and regulations. I hope those who are initiated today, you have promised before Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Deity, before Vaiṣṇava, and before the fire to give up these habits and do not take to... Even if you are practiced now, you do not take it again. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's initiation. Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared to deliver all the sinful men. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo, harināme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said that "Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu (is) so merciful that He delivered all kinds of sinful men," pāpī tāpī, "all types of suffering from material disease." And what is the medicine? Pāpī tāpī yata chilo, harināme uddhārilo. And evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. You see Jagāi-Mādhāi. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu exhibited one example, to deliver Jagāi-Mādhāi. Jagāi-Mādhāi means they were born in a very aristocratic brāhmaṇa family but by bad association they became illicit sex, woman-hunter, drunkards and meat-eaters and gamblers. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, through the mercy of Nityānanda Prabhu, delivered them. And the only promise was that "You promise no more this sinful life. Then I accept you." So if we give up our sinful activity, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu takes you. There is no condition, because in this age everyone is addicted to sinful life, but he simply promises that "Henceforward I shall not act anything sinfully," these four principles. Then you go back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. Where is the hat?(?) Give some. Yes, give him five rupees. You have got? (Hindi) (end)



760423IN.MEL

Initiation Lecture Excerpt

-

Melbourne, April 23, 1976



*Prabhupāda: ...in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, while teaching Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*The living entities, they are transmigrating from one form of life to another and wandering from one planet to another, sometimes low*-grade life, sometimes high-grade life. This is going on. This is called saṁsāra-cakra-vartmani. Last night we were explaining, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. This very word is used, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Very difficult ways of life, to die. Everyone is afraid of dying because after death nobody knows what is going to happen. Those who are foolish, they are animals. Just like animals are being slaughtered, the other animal is thinking that "I am safe." So any person with little intelligence will never like to die and accept another body. And we do not know what kind of body we are going to get. So this initiation by the grace of guru and Kṛṣṇa, do not take it very leniently. Take it very seriously. It is a great opportunity. Bīja means seed, seed of bhakti.



*So whatever you have promised before the Lord, before your spiritual master, before fire, before Vaiṣṇavas, never deviate from this promise. Then you will keep fixed up in your spiritual life: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication-these four no's-and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa*-one yes. Four no's and one yes. That will make your life successful. It is very easy. It is not difficult. But māyā is very strong, sometimes deviates us. So when there is endeavor by the māyā to deviate us, just pray to Kṛṣṇa, "Please save me. I am surrendered, fully surrendered, and kindly give me protection," and Kṛṣṇa will give you protection. But don't miss this opportunity. That is my request. I have all my good wishes and blessings upon you. So let us take the opportunity of bhakti, bhakti-latā-bīja. Mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropaṇa. So when you get a nice seed, we have to sow it within the earth. The example is, just like if you get very nice seed of first-class rose flower, so you sow it on the ground and just offer little, little water. It will grow. So this seed can be grown by watering. What is that watering? Śravaṇa kīrtana jale karaye secana [Cc. Madhya 19.152]. This watering of the seed, bhakti-latā, is śravaṇa-kīrtana, hearing and chanting. So you will hear from the sannyāsīs and the Vaiṣṇavas more and more about it. But do not miss this opportunity. That is my request.

Thank you very much. (end)



760615IN.DET

Initiations

-

Detroit, June 15, 1976



*Prabhupāda: You go on with your mantra. You can perform bathing ceremony. (chants Brahma*-saṁhitā and Caitanya-caritāmṛta Ādi-līlā ślokas responsively for installation of Gaura-Nitāi Deities) That's all. Now what is next? [break] What are the regulative principles?



Initiate: No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, (pauses) no eating meat.



Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mitrātmaja dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Your name is Mitrātmaja. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Randy prabhu?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, he is not shaven*-headed? You have not shaven your head? Why you have not shaven your head?



*Randy: Umm, because I have a full*-time job. I work in a company.



*Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that full*-time job?



Mādhavānanda: He's working at a very responsible job.



Prabhupāda: Somewhere. Where?



Mādhavānanda: At Burroughs Corporation.



Prabhupāda: All right. So what are the rules and regulations?



*Randy: The four principles are no meat*-eating, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex life.



Prabhupāda: So, what?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ramiya.



Prabhupāda: Ramiya dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jim prabhu, Jim from Detroit.



*Prabhupāda: Tad*-viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. Praṇipātena. This is praṇipāt. So what are the rules and regulations?



Jim: No eating of meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex, no intoxication, and no speculation.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jiyātulya.



Prabhupāda: Jiyātulya dāsa.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: John from Detroit. Not John D., just John.



Prabhupāda: Hmm. You are also responsible officer?



Mādhavānanda: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So what are the rules and regulations?



*John: No illicit sex life, no meat*-eating, no gambling and no intoxication.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Juṣya.



Prabhupāda: Juṣya dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Margaret.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know what are the rules and regulations?



*Margaret: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex life, no intoxication, and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: She's married.



Mādhavānanda: To that boy



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mihira*-kanyā.



*Prabhupāda: Mihira*-kanyā.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: John D.? From Detroit. John D.



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



John D.: No gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no eating meat.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Paramparā dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Paramparā das.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From Chicago, Glenn.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



*Glenn: One must not engage in meat*-eating, illicit sex, gambling or mental speculation, or intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Gaura dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Gaura dāsa. (japa)



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jim from Chicago. Ann Arbor, Miles from Ann Arbor.



Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He's working, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: So, what are the rules and regulations.



*Initiate: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex life, no intoxication and no gambling.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mitravān dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Mitravan dāsa. Come on.



Mitravān: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Linda from Ann Arbor.



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Amara prabhu.



Prabhupāda: Amara is male name. Amarā. Make it Amarā. Amarā. Amarā dāsī. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Matthew from St. Louis.



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



*Matthew: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication.



Prabhupāda: Hmm. What is name?



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mathurā*-pati.



*Prabhupāda: Mathurā*-pati das.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jim from (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



*Jim: No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling.



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Citta*-vratā.



*Prabhupāda: Citta*-vratā dāsa.



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From the Rādhā*-Dāmodara traveling party, Lenny.



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



Lenny: No meat, fish or eggs, no intoxication, no gambling, no illicit sex.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Cakrī.



Prabhupāda: Cakrī dāsa.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: John?



Prabhupāda: You did not... What are the rules and regulations? (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



*John: No meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, and no gambling.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śāśvata.



Prabhupāda: Śāśvata dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: John prabhu, from Rādhā*-Dāmodara party, is he here? John Rhode? Is he here? Lazlow?



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



*Lazlow: No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication and no gambling.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Viśva.



Prabhupāda: Viśva das.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jim from Chicago.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



*Jim: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex, no gambling.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jitendriya.



Prabhupāda: Jitendriya das.



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: John from Rādhā*-Dāmodara?



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations? [break]



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sergio! (devotee comes up)



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations? Huh? What are the rules and regulations?



Sergio: No meat, fish or egg eating, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śaṅkhi.



Prabhupāda: Śaṅkha dāsa.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Henry?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



*Henry: No meat*-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex, no intoxication.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ajñāya.



Prabhupāda: Ajñāya das.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are there any prabhus I may have overlooked? First initiations?



Prabhupāda: Now, where is the yajña? Will perform yajña? Begin, begin. (japa) Begin, begin. (gives some instructions) (fire sacrifice continues, Pradyumna recites prayers) (end)





760617IN.TOR

Initiation Lecture

-

Toronto, June 17, 1976



Prabhupāda: I have to speak something?



Pradyumna: If you like. There are some Indians, if you want to speak.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Pradyumna: You could if you wish.



Prabhupāda: Where is Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa?



Pradyumna: He's very behind on typing or something, so he wanted to...



*Prabhupāda: Oh. So this is... So many devotees are being initiated. So initiation means, the Sanskrit word is dīkṣā. Dīkṣā, divya jñānaṁ kṣapayati iti dīkṣā. Divya*-jñāna. There are two kinds of knowledge: divya and mundane. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. This is the instruction of Mahārāja... What is? Bhārata Mahārāja's father?



Pradyumna: Ṛṣabhadeva.



Prabhupāda: Ṛṣabhadeva. Ṛṣabhadeva is the father of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. From Mahārāja Bhārata. Formerly, the king of Bhāratavarṣa... The whole planet was called Bhāratavarṣa. So this... Before that, it was known as Ilāvativarṣa. So Mahārāja Bhārata, the eldest son of Ṛṣabhadeva. Ṛṣabhadeva was incarnation of God. So He advised His one hundred sons, "My dear boys, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]." Before retirement and making Bhārata Mahārāja the emperor of the world, He gave them advice. It is the duty of the father. Generally, we do also. Before retirement, the instruction is given by the father how to rule over the kingdom or manage the business. Anyone, as it is. So retirement was compulsory. Not that unless he's shot dead he's not going to retire. No. This was not Vedic civilization. At the present moment there is no Vedic civilization. Nobody is going to retire unless he shot dead. But Vedic civilization was not like that. Retirement compulsory. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Four divisions of spiritual order. Human life is meant for spiritual realization. And sense gratification is animal life. This meeting is for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. They cannot come here, neither they will understand what is going on here. A human body, human being, has the chance to understand the philosophy of life as it was enunciated by Ṛṣabhadeva.



He said,

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*He said, "My dear boys, this human form of life," ayaṁ deha, this body... Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājām. Everyone has got body. The Brahmā has got body and the small insect, it has got also body. The spirit soul is encaged in this material body. So lower than human being up to the animals, there are so many forms of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In this way, varieties of life. But Ṛṣabhadeva said, "Now you have got this human form of life, don't spoil it like the hogs and dogs simply by sense gratification." Sense gratification is available by the hogs and dogs also. That was the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva. And what is the duty of human life? Tapo, tapasya. Tapasya. Voluntarily accepting some inconvenience. That is called tapasya. Generally, we want loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityasta jantu. Jantu, when one is not on the platform of spiritual understanding, they are called jantu. Jantu means anyone who has got life. The cats and dogs, they have also got life. So loke, in this material world, vyavāya āmiṣa madya sevā. Vyavāya means sex indulgence, sex life. And āmiṣa means meat, fish, egg-eating. Āmiṣa. Therefore vegetarian diet is called nirāmiṣa, not āmiṣa. So it is general tendency of the living being to become āmiṣa, to eat meat. That is the general laws of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One living entity is the life for another living entity. Ahastāni sahastānām. There are animals, two-legged animals, and there are four-legged animals. The four-legged animals is the food for the two-legged animals. So long we remain as animals, then there is the necessity of eating meat. Ahastāni sahastānām. Hasta means hands. So those who are living like animals, only two legs. The other animals, four legs, and here is an animal of two legs, dvipad-paśu. For them, the animal is eatable, āmiṣa-madya sevā. And drinking wine, or intoxication, and vyavāya, sex life. Loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya sevayā nityastu jantu. So long he is jantu, these things are required. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. That is general tendency. But when one gives up voluntarily for higher status of life, that is called nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛtti-mārga and nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛtti-mārga means to fulfill these desires, āmiṣa vyavāya madya sevā. But when one is trained up to give up these habits, that is called nirvrtti-mārga. So we have got so many pravṛttis, inclinations. But when you voluntarily give up all these nonsense habits, that is called nivṛtti-mārga and tapasya.



*So human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo*-divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Don't be carried away by the general, menial, abominable tendencies. Therefore tapasya required. Tapa, we prescribe for tapasya no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication and no gambling. This is tapasya. This is tapasya. We have to accept if we want superior position of life. Tapo divyam. Tapasya, the aim of tapasya is to be situated on the transcendental platform of knowledge. Tapo divyam. So this life, this human form of life, is meant for tapasya and transcendental knowledge. This is the purport. Not to waste this life, this human form of life, ayaṁ deha. The cats and dogs also have deha, body. The... Analyze the body of a dog and analyze your body, what is the difference? No difference. There is blood, there is flesh, there is vein, there is so many things, all common things. Then what is the difference between the cat's body and dog's body and your body? The advancement of knowledge and consciousness. So for that divyam, knowledge, one has to be initiated. Divyam, dīkṣā means beginning of transcendental knowledge. So Vedic civilization is janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. By birth, everyone is born a śūdra, fourth-class man. But there is chance of the fourth-class man to become the first-class man. That is possible. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone, when he's born by the sex behavior of the father and mother, he's a śūdra. Then saṁskārād-bhaved dvija. By saṁskāra, by the purificatory method, this tapasya, he's becomes a dvija. Dvi means twice and ja means birth, second birth. Saṁskārād-bhaved dvija. Then when he becomes dvija, properly initiated, then he's allowed to read Vedic literature. Veda-patha. Śūdra cannot. If you remain a śūdra, no saṁskāra, no purification, then you have no right to understand Vedic knowledge. Either you have no right or you cannot understand. Why... The Bhagavad-gītā is there throughout the whole world. Everyone knows Bhagavad-gītā. But they have misunderstood, because they are kept śūdra. Veda-patha. First of all, by birth, he's a śūdra, and when he's purified, then he becomes dvija. Dvija, the sacred thread is, means that this man... Upanayana. This is called upanayana. Upa means near and nayana means bringing. So when one is brought nearer to the spiritual master and he accepts him as his disciple, he gives the sacred thread as badge, that "This man is now dvija, twice-born. He's no more śūdra. He's brāhmaṇa." So he has the right to read the Vedic literature.

*So the Bhagavad*-gītā is the summary of all Vedic knowledge. So if we pass through this process of divya-jñāna, dīkṣā, then we rightly understand what is Bhagavad-gītā or we become interested that what is the lesson of Bhagavad-gītā. Veda pathād bhaved vipra. After reading... Bhagavad-gītā is the summary of Vedic literature. You cannot read all the Vedas at the present moment, neither you have time, nor you have got the capacity. In this Kali-yuga, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10], everyone is fallen. Manda-bhāgyā. So this human life should be utilized for understanding the Vedic knowledge, divya-jñāna; *then he'll be purified, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. My existential identity will be purified. At the present moment it is not purified. Because it is not purified, therefore we are repeatedly dying. But there is no knowledge how to stop death. They think death is natural. It is not natural. It is unnatural. They do not know it. But in the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll get the information, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin: "The soul is never born, never dies." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. "I see he's died, he is dead." No, he's not dying, his body is being annihi...Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. By seeing the body is destroyed don't think he's destroyed. He'll get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. So this is our position. We have accepted one body, and we live in that body for some days, and then again we give up this body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. So this is disease. So in order to get out of this disease there is necessity of tapasya, how to stop this disease.

*So this initiation means... Don't think that it is something official, ritualistic ceremony, and as soon as we get the initiation, now we have become perfect, and then whatever nonsense I like I can do. No. Tapasya must continue. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. In order to purify yourself, your existence, you have to continue the tapasya*-no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you follow these five principles, then your existence will be purified, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa from the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll know Kṛṣṇa, you'll know what is the purpose of life. The purpose of life is to understand Kṛṣṇa. There is no other business in this human form of life, but because we have given up Kṛṣṇa we have invented so many occupational duties. So these so-called occupational duties, running here and there on motorcar, is not the end of life. There is something more for the human being, and that is divya-jñāna. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam, yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Why shall I purify my existence? Because you want happiness. That is your desire. So you'll get brahma-saukhyam, the greatest happiness, which will never end. If you purify your existence by tapasya then you will be happy eternally. There will be no end. Here in this material world any happiness is temporary-either for five minutes or five days or five years or five hundred years or five millions of years. It will end. But if you purify your existence, then the happiness will never end. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Anantam means unlimited. It is very serious thing, and it is offered to the human being. So anyone can take advantage of this opportunity and make his life successful.

Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya!



Hari-śauri: ...all mixed up. [break] ...got to do the men first, then the women... [break] ...initiated.



Prabhupāda: No. Why the men? Anyone can come. Take one, yes.



Devotee: Steve? Steve? (devotee offers obeisances)



Prabhupāda: So you know the rules and regulations?



*Steve: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling, and no illicit sex life.



Prabhupāda: And chanting?



Steve: Sixteen rounds per day.



Prabhupāda: Minimum.



*Pradyumna: Sthiti*-kartā dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Your spiritual name, Sthiti*-kartā dāsa.



Devotees: Jaya, Haribol. (another devotee offers obeisances)



Devotee: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: You know what are the rules and regulations, regulative principles?



*Devotee: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Your spiritual name, Gauḍīya dāsa.



Hari-śauri: Robert Richards? (devotee offers obeisances)



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chant japa) What are the rules and regulations?



*Robert: No illicit sex life, no meat*-eating, no gambling, and no intoxication.



*Prabhupāda: Prabhu*-pati dāsa.



Hari-śauri: Bhakta Lloyd?



Prabhupāda: Is he a doctor?



Hari-śauri: Bhakta.



Prabhupāda: Hmm. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. What are the rules and regulations?



*Lloyd: No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling and no meat*-eating.



*Prabhupāda: Līlā*-kīrtana dāsa. (another devotee offers obeisances) What are the rules?



*Devotee: No illicit sex life, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat*-eating, and minimum sixteen rounds.



Prabhupāda: Thank you.



Pradyumna: Devideva dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Devideva dāsa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. What are the rules and regulations?



*Devotee: No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat*-eating, chanting minimum sixteen rounds of Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Pradyumna: Deśikā dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Diksik?



Pradyumna: Deśikā



Prabhupāda: Oh. Deśikā dāsa.



Hari-śauri: Bhakta Ivan?



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



*Ivan: No intoxication, no meat*-eating, no sex illicit, no gambling.



Pradyumna: Īśāvatāra dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Īśāvatāra dāsa.



Hari-śauri: Richard Hoffman?



Prabhupāda: (japa) What are the rules and regulations?



*Richard: No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling.



Pradyumna: Ṛṣi dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Ṛṣi dāsa.



Hari-śauri: Gary Hannon?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules?



*Gary: No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication and no gambling.



Prabhupāda: Gurubhāvanā dāsa.



Hari-śauri: Bhakta Allen?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



*Allen: No gambling, no meat*-eating, no intoxication and no illicit sex.



*Prabhupāda: So after performance of the sacrifice, those who are to be doubly initiated, how many? Eight. They may come upstairs, one by one. So one thing I request that these promises*-no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling-these promises are made by you before Kṛṣṇa, before the fire, before the Vaiṣṇavas and before your spiritual master. Don't break it. It will be great sin. Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. (end)





760822IN.HYD

Initiation Lecture

-

Hyderabad, August 22, 1976



*Prabhupāda: So this morning we are having initiation ceremony for some devotees. The initiation means beginning. The Sanskrit name is dīkṣā. Dīkṣā, divya*-jñānaṁ kṣapayati iti dīkṣā. Initiation, beginning of spiritual life. This is the Vedic function. Every human being must be initiated in Vedic culture, to make his life fulfilled, successful, because we are born animals. Animal means one who does not know except four things: eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. These are animal life. So a dog is interested in eating, sleeping, sex life, and defense, and if the man also remains in the same platform-eating, sleeping, sex life and defense-then he is no better than dog. Human beings, from this dog platform, can be raised to God platform. That is possible. And human life is meant for that purpose. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said athāto brahma jijñāsā. Human life is meant for inquiring about Brahman, the Absolute Truth.



*So this brahma*-jijñāsā, if one is actually interested in brahma-jijñāsā, then he requires a guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If one is actually interested. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. So guru is required for one who is actually interested in the highest status of life. Those who are like cats and dogs, they do not require guru. A dog does not require. He knows very well how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, how to defend. That does not require any guru. By nature all animals know it. So the human life has got special knowledge, special advancement of consciousness. He can understand. So if he is refused or if he is kept in darkness, as it is being done by the modern civilization... Everyone is being kept on the platform of eating, sleeping, sex and defending. That's all. This is going on in the name of humanity, nationality and so on. But the business is the same. The business is the same: eating, sleeping, mating and defending, as the cats and dogs are doing. In a different way only. The dogs, they enjoy sex life on the street without any shame, and if a human being arranges for the same purpose, nice apartment, sixth-floor building and all... But the purpose is the same. Eating is the same. No. Beyond this one has to go. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12].

*So some of the devotees who are now eager to accept the spiritual life very seriously, and they have come to take initiation, this is the first initiation. And after some time when they are accustomed, they... Now they have to promise that they'll give up four sinful activities. Sinful activity... If you indulge in sinful activities there cannot be any spiritual advancement. That is not possible. Just like here there will be fire. If you favorably ignite the fire, it will be blazing. But if you ignite the fire and pour water at the same time, then there will be no blazing fire. Similarly, to advance in spiritual life and at the same time indulge in sinful activities will not help us. The sinful act... The basic principles of sinful activities are mentioned in the śāstra*-striya, sūnā, dyūta, pāna. Pāna means intoxication, including chewing pan and drinking tea. Chaya pāna. So one has to give up this pāna. And drinking, smoking, drinking tea, chewing pan should be given up. Pāna. This is one of the pillar of the sinful activity. And meat-eating. Meat, fish, eggs, they should be given up. And gambling, dyūta, pāna dyūta [SB 1.17.38], that should be given up. And avaidha stri-saṅgi should be given up. In this way, if you become cleansed, then... Just like if we get dry wood, then the fire ignites very easily. If we get moist wood, then it takes some time. So voluntarily we should give up these sinful activities. Then spiritual advancement of life will be very quick. And those who are being first-initiated, they must chant at least sixteen rounds. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. The Gosvāmīs, they showed us the way. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka. So many rounds we must chant, at least. Haridas Ṭhākura was chanting three hundred thousand times. We cannot do that. That is not possible. So we have made a minimum, sixteen rounds. So those who are being initiated, they must chant at least sixteen rounds. If they can increase, it is better. But not less than that. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. So these things should be observed, and always pray to Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa, I have taken shelter of You. Kindly guide me." And He is prepared to guide. He says, "If a devotee surrenders and wants My guide..." He says,

teṣām evānukampārtham

*aham ajñāna*-jaṁ tamaḥ

*nāśayāmy ātma*-bhāva-stho

*jñāna*-dīpena bhāsvatā

[Bg. 10.11]



*So Kṛṣṇa is always ready to help us provided we are eager to take His help. Then jñāna*-dīpena bhāsvatā. When Kṛṣṇa takes charge of making you enlightened in knowledge, who can be better person of knowledge, man of knowledge, or wise, than a devotee? A devotee, they say a devotee... Only the foolish person who has no knowledge, he becomes a devotee. That is a wrong conception. Without full knowledge, nobody can become devotee. Because he has no scarcity of knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says, jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā. He gives special-teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ [Bg. 10.11]. "Darkness I drive away." Ajñāna-jaṁ nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho. So take shelter of Kṛṣṇa and avoid these four principles of sinful life and chant sixteen rounds. Then easily you become advanced in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you become liberated immediately. Janma karma ca divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9].



īhā yasya harer dāsye

karmaṇā manasā vācā

nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu

*jīvan*-muktaḥ sa ucyate



*Anyone who has sincere desire to serve Kṛṣṇa by his work, karmaṇā, manasā, by his mind, by his words,... So either you engage your activities, your mind, your words, in the service of Kṛṣṇa... Or out of three, at least two, at least one. Then your life is successful. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that this simple activity doesn't require..., nobody requires a very high standard education to understand Kṛṣṇa or to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Very simple thing. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Here is Kṛṣṇa Deity. You see every day and think of Him. It is very easy. As soon as you become practiced to see the Deity, the impression is within your mind. So you can think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā. And because you come to the temple and always see Kṛṣṇa and His daily program, then you become a bhakta. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Mad-yājī, you worship Kṛṣṇa. Whatever you have got, little patram, puṣpam, phalam, toyam [Bg. 9.26], just try to offer. And at last just offer respectful obeisances. Then you become perfect. You become eligible to go back home, back to Godhead. Very simple thing. It is not at all difficult, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anyone. There is no distinction. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Never mind one is born in low-grade family, but still he can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya, striyo śūdrās tathā te 'pi yānti parām. Everything is open.



So not only the devotees who are being initiated today, I request all of you, please come here daily. See the Deity. Even if you cannot offer anything. I think everyone can offer, I think, a flower can be offered, a little fruit can be offered. Even if you do not offer, just come here, see the Deity and take the impression within your mind and offer obeisances. Just see. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone, there is no restriction. So that is our request. We have opened this branch in your city. It is a very prominent place. You can come and take the advantage.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

*Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa*-kiśora dāsa.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules?



Devotee (1): Four rules.



*Devotee (2): No intoxication, no meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling.



*Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa*-kiśora dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: So your spiritual name, Kṛṣṇa*-kiśora dāsa. What are the rules and regulations? (Hindi) He does not understand English? Hindi?



*Devotee (3): No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex life, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: That's it.



Harikeśa: Sudhīra dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Sudhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. You are sudhīra.



Harikeśa: Vrajeśvara Prāṇa?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations? (Hindi)



Devotee (4): (Hindi) And chanting sixteen rounds daily.



Harikeśa: Viśvarāja dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Very good name. Viśvarāja dāsa. Viśvarāja is Kṛṣṇa.



Harikeśa: Rangachala Pati Veo?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



Devotee (5): Pardon?



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



Devotee (5): (Hindi) No meat, onions, tea, wine, and all these four principles.



Prabhupāda: Illicit sex.



Devotee (5): Illicit.



Harikeśa: Rāmasvarūpa dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Rāmasvarūpa dāsa.



*Harikeśa: Rādhā*-sakhī dāsī.



*Prabhupāda: Rādhā*-sakhī dāsī. That's all?



Harikeśa: For second initiation, Śrīkāra dāsa and Yoga dāsa.



Prabhupāda: So they can come to me at three o'clock. Or in the evening after...



Hari-śauri: We'll be here tomorrow, also.



Prabhupāda: Yes. They can come in the evening about five o'clock. So now you can perform yajña. So I can go?



Harikeśa: Yes. (end)





760831IN.DEL

Delhi Initiations

-

Delhi, August 31, 1976



Prabhupāda: They have got neckbeads?



Pradyumna: Everyone has their neckbeads? Yes. Bhakta Adira?



Devotee (1): Kṛṣṇa dāsa.



Prabhupāda: His family?



Pradyumna: His name is Abhayāśraya.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So kya niyama hai?



Adira: (says four rules in Hindi)



Prabhupāda: Abhayāśraya.



*Pradyumna: Bhakta Allen? Ātmānanda? Ātma*-tattva dāsa.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Kya niyama hai?



*Allen: No meat*-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex, no gambling.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Ātmānanda dāsa.



*Pradyumna: Ātma*-tattva dāsa.



*Prabhupāda: Ātma*-tattva dāsa.



Devotees: Jaya!



Pradyumna: Lakṣmaṇa? Bhakta Lakṣmaṇa?



Devotee: Pay full obeisances. Fall flat.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Kya niyama hai?



Laksman: (Hindi)



Pradyumna: Lakṣmīśa dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Lakṣmīśa dāsa.



Devotee: Lasmīśvara.



Devotees: Jaya.



Pradyumna: Robin?



Prabhupāda: While coming they should be careful not to touch feet anything. These people, they do not know. Especially...



Lokanātha: (Hindi) Do not touch any of these things with your feet.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules and regulations?



*Robin: No egg or fish, no meat*-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, and no gambling.



Pradyumna: Atīndra dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Atīndra dāsa.



Pradyumna: Roger?



Prabhupāda: Walk very carefully. You should come very carefully to get beads.(?)



Lokanātha: Excuse me, prabhus. I'll repeat one more time, do not touch any of these things. Be careful.



Prabhupāda: Not touch nor cross.



Lokanātha: Not even go over it. It is offensive. Please make a way.



Prabhupāda: What are the rules?



*Roger: No intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex. Chant sixteen rounds daily.



*Pradyumna: Revatī*-kumāra.



*Prabhupāda: Revatī*-kumāra dāsa.



Pradyumna: Satyānanda?



Devotee: Namaḥ oṁ should be uttered, should be a vibration. Otherwise, *Nectar of Devotion* says it's offense.



Satyānanda: (Hindi) ...chaya, coffee, cigarettes, bidi, gañja.



Pradyumna: Siddhārtha dāsa.



Prabhupāda: Siddhārtha dāsa.



Pradyumna: Dharma?



Lokanātha: Prabhupāda? These are his beads you were chanting on before.



Prabhupāda: No shaving?



Lokanātha: He's Tejas's man. I don't know. He is just a visitor, householder. He's in business.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but give him initiation. (Hindi)



Lokanātha: (indistinct) initiation, do it first?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Lokanātha: I'll ask him.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Nobody said to him? You did not know. Let him shave up. Then we shall... You should. You are introducing, you did not know? Then who has introduced?



Lokanātha: Tejas.



Prabhupāda: Tejas is not saying and you also not detect. You should be very careful. If you remain ignorant, all ignorant, then where is progress? Everything ignorant I have to find out. So many big, big monkeys, nobody could find out. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. You also did not. That's all... Who is next?



Pradyumna: That is all, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: So? (Hindi) [break] Yes. Because some of them, they could not follow Hindi.



*Pradyumna: I'll just do it fast. First nāma*-aparādha is (Sanskrit verse) Paramam aparādham The saintly persons who are spreading the glories of the holy name, if we abuse them, if we make offense at the people who are spreading the glories of the holy name, then the holy name will never tolerate that. How can the holy name tolerate the abuse of those who are spreading the glories of the holy name? So we must understand that a saintly person, a sādhu, satām, spreading the glories of Kṛṣṇa, talking about Kṛṣṇa, must never be offended. Must always be very careful. Sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. You must know how to associate with the sādhus, to always honor them and worship them and not to make offense. The second offense is that we should not put the..., understand that the names of Śrī Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu-tattva personalities, which are completely spiritual, are the same as the material designations of jīvas like ourselves. There's Viṣṇu-tattva, there is jīva. Viṣṇu-tattva is God; *jīva is this ordinary living entity. The name of the Supreme is the same as the Supreme. The name of the jīva is different from the jīva. So we should not confuse these. We should understand the name of Viṣṇu is the same as Viṣṇu. The name of jīva is not the same. So the names of demigods*-the demigods are also jīvas-their names are not spiritual. If we call names of some demigods, it will not do us the same spiritual..., it will not give us this spiritual result as calling the name of Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Therefore during the time of initiation we change the name. A spiritual name is given. Go on.



Pradyumna: Because that spiritual name has..., because the name of Kṛṣṇa, a name of Hari, has the spiritual potency; therefore we use the name of Hari as much as possible. Haridāsa...



Prabhupāda: Dāsa. Not that name, but the name's servant. Dāsa. When one is named Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa dāsa, he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Not that Kṛṣṇa. If he thinks, "I have become Kṛṣṇa," that is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Go on.



*Pradyumna: The next offense is guror avajñā, to neglect or disrespect the orders of the spiritual master. Because the spiritual master is the external representation of the internal Kṛṣṇa, whatever the spiritual master says is to be taken as exactly what Kṛṣṇa's desire is. Kṛṣṇa is within all of us as Paramātmā, but because we cannot see Him, because He is adhokṣaja, or above our senses, therefore that same Kṛṣṇa within appears without as the spiritual master, and he gives us instructions, and these are taken to be the same as Kṛṣṇa's instructions. So to disrespect the orders of the guru is not to make any progress on the spiritual path. Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. There can be no gatiḥ, there can be no spiritual achievement without following the orders of the spiritual master. Because the order of the spiritual master is the same as Kṛṣṇa's order. Śruti-śāstra*-nindanam. One should not make blasphemy the śruti, which are the Vedas, and śāstra, the śāstras which follow the Vedas. This is Mahābhārata, the Purāṇas, the itihāsa, the smṛti. Śruti-smṛti. These are the two eyes. It is said the brāhmaṇa has two eyes: one is śruti, one is smṛti. So by these śāstras we can understand, because the śāstras are made by God, because they are emanating from God; therefore they are perfect. As Kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda: Not different. Not different from God.



*Pradyumna: Because God is perfect, because Kṛṣṇa is perfect, therefore His words and His ideas are also perfect. So these śāstras are the words of God. So they are also perfect. So the śruti-śāstra*-nindanam means to think that there may be something wrong in the scripture or to take one verse out of Bhagavad-gītā and reject another verse. Because it is all coming from Kṛṣṇa and is all perfect, therefore everything is perfect within it. We must accept everything. We must accept it without any..., as being without any fault. So śruti-śāstra-nindanam. We should not think that it has any imperfection, that "This may be wrong." Śruti-śāstra-nindanam hari-nāmni kalpanam. We should not think that the..., should not speculate on the nature of the holy name.



*Prabhupāda: Go on, next. Nāmnād balād pāpa*-buddhiḥ.



*Pradyumna: Nāmnād balād pāpa*-buddhir na tasya śuddhiḥ, na tasya vidyate śuddhir yamaiḥ. The next offense is that..., if by chanting the holy name one becomes relieved from all his past sinful reactions. So if one thinks that "I will perform sinful activities. I'll have illicit sex, I'll eat meat, fish... (end)



Cornerstone Ceremonies





750123CS.BOM

Cornerstone Laying

-

Bombay, January 23, 1975



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Hm? You bring. You can bring one chair here. (pause)



pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca

janā na vidur āsurāḥ

na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate

[Bg. 16.7]



asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te

jagad āhur anīśvaram

*aparaspara*-sambhūtaṁ

*kim anyat kāma*-haitukam

[Bg. 16.8]



etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya

*naṣṭātmānaḥ alpa*-buddhayaḥ

*prabhavanty ugra*-karmāṇaḥ

kṣayāya jagataḥ ahitāḥ

[Bg. 16.9]



*Just like we were talking of industries. The industries, they are mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma. Ugra-karma means ferocious activities. For livelihood, we require our maintenance. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-mai... These are the primary necessities of this body, material body. For that, Kṛṣṇa has said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. Anna-means food grains*-we require. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. That food grains we can produce very easily by agriculture. In another place, Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. We can produce sufficient food grains for our maintenance, and the whole world has got sufficient land. I have traveled over the world at least fourteen times. During the last eight years, I have traveled all over the world, even interior. I have seen there is enough land, especially in Africa, in Australia, in America, and we can produce so much food grains that ten times of this present population can be easily maintained. Ten times. There is no scarcity of food. But the difficulty is that we have demarcated, "This is my land." Somebody says, "This is America, my land," "Australia, my land," "The Africa, my land," "India, my land." This "my" and "I." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is called illusion, that "I" and "my." "I am this body, and this is my property." This is called illusion. And this illusion, if we stand on this platform of illusion, then we are no better than the animals.



*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. Those who are in the bodily concept of life, ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8], they are no better than these asses and the cows, means the animals. This is going on. I'll not take much of your time, but I shall try to convince you what is the purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to save the human society from becoming animals, cows and asses. This is the movement. They have established their civilization... As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, animal or asuric civilization, asuric civilization, beginning is pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ. The asuric, demonic, civilization, they do not know in which way we have to guide ourself for attaining the perfection of life, pravṛtti, and nivṛtti, and which we shall not take-favorable and unfavorable. Human life... Everyone knows, "This is favorable for me, and this is unfavorable for me." So āsurāḥ janā, those who are demonic persons, they do not know this, that "What is favorable for me and what is not favorable for me." Pravṛttiṁ nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ, na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ: "There is no cleanliness, nor good behavior." Na satyaṁ teṣu vidya...: "And there is no truth in their life." This is asuric. We have heard many times, "asuras," "asuric civilization," "demonic civilization." This is the beginning.



pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca

janā na vidur āsurāḥ

na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu...

[Bg. 16.7]



*Satyam, there is no truthfulness. And just the first*-class life means the brāhmaṇa life. Satyaṁ śaucaṁ tapo. The beginning is satyam. The asuric life is no satya, no truth, and the first-class life in human society, the brāhmaṇas, is satyaṁ śaucaṁ tapo, and titikṣa ārjavaḥ āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. This is first-class life.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to create a class of men ideal, first*-class men with satyaṁ śaucaṁ tapo śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣaḥ. This is godly civilization. And this godly civilization can be given to the whole world by India. That is India's special privilege. Because in other countries beyond India they are almost āsuri-janā and ugra-karma. The industries and other ugra-karma has come from the Western countries. But by this way people will never be happy. That is very elaborately explained in the Sixteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā. Duṣpūra akaṅkṣa. Their desire will never be satisfied by this material advancement. They do not know. They are forgetting. So we selected this Bombay. Bombay city is the best city, most advanced city in India, the best city in India. And people are also very nice. They are religiously inclined. They are opulent. They can take up better things very nicely. Therefore I wanted to start this center, Bombay, for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Although there have been many impediments in my endeavor, still, ultimately it is Kṛṣṇa's business. It will come successful. So today... The foundation and cornerstone establishment was done two years before, but there were many, many impediments from the asuric janā. Now, some way or other, we have got little relief from such impediments. So we are putting this cornerstone this auspicious day, and I am very glad that you have joined us.

*So the mission is very, very authorized, and it comprehends a very large jurisdiction of activities. Therefore my request is that the inhabitants of Bombay, especially those who are our members, they will kindly take active part, how to make this institution very successful in Bombay. So many ladies and gentlemen are present here. We are, whatever we are doing it is not whimsical or mental concoction. It is authorized and just to the standard of Bhagavad*-gītā. Our present movement is based on Bhagavad-gītā-Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We don't interpret. We do not interpret foolishly because... I say purposefully this word "foolishly," that why should we interpret Kṛṣṇa's words? Am I more than Kṛṣṇa? Or did Kṛṣṇa leave some portion to be explained by me by interpretation? Then what is the importance of Kṛṣṇa? If I give my own interpretation, thinking myself more than Kṛṣṇa, this is blasphemy. How I can become more than Kṛṣṇa? If actually we want to take advantage of this Bhagavad-gītā, then we must take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Just like Arjuna took. Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he said, sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye: "I accept all the words, my dear Keśava, whatever You have said. I accept them in toto, without any change." This is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā, not that I take advantage of the Bhagavad-gītā and I interpret in my foolish way so that people will accept my philosophy. This is not Bhagavad-gītā. There is no question of interpretation in the Bhagavad-gītā. Interpretation is allowed when you cannot understand. When the things are clearly understood... If I say, "This is microphone," everyone understands this is microphone. Where is the necessity of interpreting it? There is no necessity. This is foolishness, misleading. There cannot be any interpretation in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is... Everything is clear to the point. Just like Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa says... Kṛṣṇa does not say that "You all become sannyāsī and give up your occupational duty." No. Kṛṣṇa says, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ [Bg. 18.46]. You remain in your business. You remain your occupation. There is no need of changing. But still, you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make your life successful. This is the message of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is not going to make any topsy-turvy of the social order or spiritual order. No. It should be standardized according to the authority. And the best authority is Kṛṣṇa.

*So make this center successful, you ladies and gentlemen of Bombay. We have got very nice place. We are building so that you can come here, stay, at least in weekend. If you stay, all those who are retired or elderly gentlemen, ladies, they can come here and stay. We will have sufficient place. But try to organize these principles of Bhagavad*-gītā all over the world. That will be the gift of India. Caitanya Mahāprabhu desired that anyone who has taken birth in India as human being, not cats and dogs... Cats and dog cannot take any part for doing good to others. He said,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*"Anyone who has taken his birth as human being in India, Bhārata*-bhūmi, first of all make your life successful." Because you have got the standard, how to make life successful. Here is Bhagavad-gītā. Try to understand it, make your life successful, and then broadcast this message all over the world. That is paropakāra. So actually, India and India's people, they are meant for paropakāra. We are not meant for exploiting others. That is not our mission. Actually that is being done. Everyone goes out of India. They go there to exploit. But it is for the first time that India is giving something to the outsiders, this spiritual knowledge. And the proof you can see. We are giving, we are not taking. We do not go to beg, "Give me wheat, give me money, give me this, give me that." No. We are giving something substantial, and they are feeling obliged. Otherwise, why these young men and girls, they are after this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? They are feeling something, that they are getting something tangible. So it has got potency, very good potency. They are not feeling like Americans or Canadians or Australians. We are also not feeling as Indians. On the spiritual platform we are one.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*This is real learning. Ātmavat sarva*-bhūteṣu. Even the great politician, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he says,



*mātṛvat para*-dāreṣu

*para*-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

*ātmavat sarva*-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ



*So this is a great culture, Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. So those responsible ladies and gentlemen are present here, make this center very successful and come here, study Bhagavad-gītā as it is without any foolish interpretation. I say foolish again and again because interpretation is not at all required. Everything is clear, from the very beginning.



*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*So very clear. Kurukṣetra is dharma*-kṣetra still. In the Vedas it is stated, kurukṣetre dharmam ācaret: "One should go to Kurukṣetra and perform religious rituals." Therefore it is dharma-kṣetra from time immemorial. And why should we interpret it that "This Kurukṣetra means this body, dharmakṣetra, this body"? Why? Why mislead people? Stop this misleading. And Kurukṣetra is still there. Kurukṣetra station, railway station, is there. So try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, make your life successful, and spread this message all over the world. You will be happy; *the world will be happy. Of course, I am now very old man. I am eighty years old. My life is finished. But I want some responsible Indian and combined with other countries... Other countries, they are giving good cooperation. Otherwise, it was not possible for me to spread in so short time, only seven or eight years, to preach this cult all over the world. So I require the cooperation of the Indian, especially young men, educated men. Come forward. Stay with us. Study Bhagavad*-gītā. We haven't got anything to manufacture. Nothing to manufacture. And what we can manufacture? We are all imperfect. Whatever is there, let us study it and practically apply in life and spread the message all over the world. That is our mission.



*So today is very auspicious day. With great difficulty we have got now sanction. Now please cooperate with this attempt as far as possible with your prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā, four things: by your life, by your words, by your money... Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā. This is the mission of human life. Whatever you have got... It is not that "Because I am poor man, I cannot help this movement." No. If you have got... You have got your life. So if you dedicate your life, that is all*-perfect. If you cannot dedicate your life, give some money. But if you can..., poor man, you cannot give money, then you give some intelligence. And if you are fool, then give your words. So any way, you can help this movement and do the welfare activities for India and outside India. So that is my request. I welcome you. Of course, today is ekādaśī. We are, mostly we are fasting. Some prasādam will be given. So it is not the question of prasādam; *it is the question of the important work we are taking in hand, how to spread a God consciousness movement. Otherwise, you will never be happy. Simply material consciousness, gṛha*-kṣetra... Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This material civilization means the sex desire. Woman is hunting after man; *man if hunting after woman. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī*-bhavam etaṁ tayor mithaḥ. And as soon as they are united, they require gṛha, apartment; *gṛha*-kṣetra, land; *gṛha*-kṣetra-suta, children, friends, money; *and the moho, the illusion, ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8], "It is I, it is mine." This is material civilization. But the human life is not meant for that. Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. So you study. We have got now enough book. There is no difficulty to study our books. We have given in English translation. Everyone, any gentleman, knows English. And we are going to give in Hindi, in Gujarati, in all other languages. Our friends, they have already begun translating. So there will be no scarcity of knowledge. Please come here, sit down at least once in a week, study all these books, try to understand the philosophy of life, and spread all over the world. That is the mission of Bhāratavarṣa.

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



This is paropakāra movement, to do welfare to others, not like cats and dogs, simply bring money and sense enjoy. This is not human life. Human life is for paropakāra. People are in ignorance, without any knowledge of God, without the ideal of life. They are simply working like cats and dogs and hogs. So they should be educated. Human life is the chance for getting such education. So this is the center for educating the human society to become actually human being and make his life successful.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



770202CM.BHU

Foundation Stone Ceremony Speech

-

Bhuvaneśvara, February 2, 1977



Prabhupāda: My foreign disciples, they could not understand either Hindu or Oriya. So for this movement, I am very much obliged to these American boys. The history of this movement is that my Guru Mahārāja, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, and before him, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, they had an intense desire to preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message throughout the whole world. That was the intense desire of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*He wanted it. Because this is the only message to bring the human society into oneness. There is no other alternative. That is confirmed in the Śrīmad*-Bhagavatam:



*kaler doṣa*-nidhe rājann

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

*mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

[SB 12.3.51]



*So this Kali*-yuga, as described by our Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja, a bhankara (?) yuga. But there is one opportunity, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. This is the message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and a little attempt was made at the age of seventy years. Of course, my Guru Mahārāja asked me... When I was twenty-five years old, I first met him. He asked me to do this task. But I thought that "Let me adjust my family life, and then I shall do this." But I took it very seriously. But family life, never it was adjusted, so he forced me at the ripe old age to take up this work. So I tried to make an experiment that nobody had done: "Let me try." But I tried sincerely, so by the grace of my Guru... Guru-Kṛṣṇa, they favored me. When I was on the Commonwealth Jetty, Pier, yes, I was thinking that "Who will hear me? As soon as I shall say to these people that 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication and no gambling,' immediately they will say, 'Please go home. Don't talk here.' " Because I know that. This is their daily life. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa they agreed. All these students, all these disciples... I do not accept anyone as my disciple that "You can do whatever you like." No. My first condition is that "You must be sinless." At least you must try to become sinless, because in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand,



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

bhajante mām...

[Bg. 7.28]



Without being sinless, one cannot make any advance.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu introduced this movement. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is the first installment. Actually, if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the first installment is that we cleanse our heart. It is simply misunderstanding. Kṛṣṇa also wanted to start this movement. When He instructed Arjuna, the first word He spoke,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*So in this age practically there is nil who is a dhīra. Everyone is adhīra. But the saṅkīrtana movement is so nice, as it is spoken by Śrīnivāsa Ācārya on behalf of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, kṛṣṇot*-kīrtana-gāna-nartana parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. This movement is so nice that it will be pleasing to the dhīras and the adhīras.



*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*So the disease is there, but the remedy is also there. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. We are misunderstanding. The human society, they are trying to adjust things by the United Nations, but it is not possible. United Nations cannot do. In Melbourne I was speaking, so I accused the United Nations, "They're assembly of barking dogs." Because you cannot be united on this material platform. If you keep yourself that "I am dog," "I am tiger," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," then there is no question of United Nations. United Nations is possible when sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. You have to become purified on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not "I am American," not "I am Indian." No. This will not help.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*So factually we see that these Americans, Europeans, they are Christian, Jews, or there are Muhammadans also in our movement, Africans, all over the world, but they no more think that he is African or Indian or American. They think Kṛṣṇa dāsa. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Unless we come to that platform, that we are servants of Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of unity. That is brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Unless you come to that brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage, that "I am not this body. I am soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman"-paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]-there is no question of unity. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to introduce this movement how actually there can be possibility of being united. That is possible. That is not difficult because they are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhevanti..., ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. He's the original father. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to introduce in the human society, and not on my conviction, on the assurance of the śāstras, that if you want to be united, you'll have to come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness; otherwise it is not possible.



So I do not wish to take much of your time. It is already late. Kindly take little prasādam, whatever they have arranged, and I thank you very much for your coming in this occasion. And I must also thank Śrīmatī Cori (?) Ānanda, this young girl. Out of her own accord, she contributed this piece of land so that we can begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in this city.

Thank you very much. (end)

Wedding Ceremonies





680722WL.MON

Paramānanda & Satyabhāmā's Wedding

-

Montreal, July 22, 1968



Prabhupāda: Gurudāsa, you don't feel?



Gurudāsa: Yes, very good.



*Prabhupāda: This last verse... It is not last. It is the third of Brahma*-sūtra, Brahma-saṁhitā. Ālola-candraka-lasad-vanamālya-vaṁśī-ratnaṅgadaṁ praṇaya-keli-kalā-vilāsam [Bs. 5.31]. This verse... There are about one hundred verses in the Brahma-saṁhitā, and this verse, I think, about thirty-eighth verse... So description of Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The picture is here. So Govinda is not impersonal. And it is distinctly stated here that ālola-candraka-lasad-vanamālya-vaṁśī: [Bs. 5.31] "The Lord is decorated with flower garland, and He has got a flute in His hands." And praṇaya-keli-kalā-vilāsam: "And He is engaged in transcendental, conjugal love, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa." So this love which is in our experience within this material world, man and woman, it is not unnatural. It is in God also there. And the Brahma-sūtra, Vedānta-sūtra, in the beginning says that "Who is Brahman, the Supreme Person or the Absolute Truth?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā, questioning "What is that Absolute Truth?" The answer is janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates." Very simple definition. That means the fountainhead of everything, the source of everything. Therefore here in this material world we see that the attraction for man and woman, woman's attraction for man, man's attraction for woman, is so prominent. Not only in human society, but in other than: animal society, cat society, dog society, bird society, there is always the attraction, man and woman, or male and female. Why? The answer is in the Vedānta-sūtra: janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Because it is there in the Absolute Truth. Without being present in the Absolute Truth, how it can be manifested in the relative truth?



*This world is called relative world. It is not Absolute. Relative. Difference, two, duality. We cannot understand a man without knowing a woman. We cannot understand father without understanding a son or a mother. Relativity. But in Absolute world, everything is one. So this love between male and female, conjugal love, we Vaiṣṇava philosophers... Because everyone, according to Vedic system, everyone has to follow the Vedānta*-sūtra. There are two section of philosophers in India, approved; not, I mean to say, manufactured philosopher, mental speculators, but actually those who are counted valuable. There are two classes of philosophers, namely the impersonalist and personalist. The Vaiṣṇava, they accept that the Absolute Truth is person, and the Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that Absolute Truth is impersonal. That is the difference. Otherwise their process of other paraphernalia, execution of understanding, is almost the same. Now our Vaiṣṇava philosopher's argument is that how the Absolute Truth can be impersonal? Because here, in this world, in our experience, we see everything personal. So unless the personality, the individuality, or the individual attraction is there in the Absolute Truth, how they can be represented here in the relative truth?

*So apart from that argumental point of view, our presentation is that this conjugal love between man and woman is not unnatural. It is quite natural because it is in the Absolute Truth, as we find from Vedic description, that the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, is engaged in conjugal loving affairs, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. But the same Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa love matter has permeated through matter. Therefore it is perverted reflection. Here in this material world, the so-called love is not actual love. It is lust. Here the male and female are attracted not by love but by lust. So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, because we are trying to approach the Absolute Truth, the lust propensity has to be converted into pure love. That is the proposal. So in India still, amongst the strict followers of Vedic principles, this lust affair is adjusted spiritually. What is that? The boys and girls, they are not allowed free mixing before marriage. Especially... Both the boys... Here, one of our students, he was in India, and he tried to talk with a young girl on the street, and he (she) was insulted. He was surprised. Because the practice is there that no young boy or young girl can talk with... Of course, now it is different. Even up to our young time we have seen that without being married, no girl, no boy, could mix together. So this lust affair, this attraction, was little bit controlled. The father, the parents of the girl, and the parents of the boy would select. They had no personal selection. And that selection was made very scientifically, taking the horoscope of the girl, taking the horoscope of the boy, and calculating, "How this boy and girl will amalgamate? How their lives will be happy?" So many things, they were considered. And when everything was settled, then the marriage would take place. That is the system of old Indian, Vedic principle. And so far free love is concerned, as we understand, that was allowed only very in high circles, princely order. Because the girls were educated and grown up and she was given to select her husband, but not directly. We find in so many historical evidences from the Vedic literature that the girl used to express her desire that "I want to marry with that boy," and the father... This was amongst the kṣatriyas, the princely order, not with others. And the father would give a challenge, a bet. And if somebody will come and become victorious, then the girl would be offered. That was in special cases.

Anyway in this age, marriage, according to our Vaiṣṇava principles, marriage is allowed because there is male, there is female. Why they should not unite? But not illegally. So when I came in this country in New York, the boys and girls, they were coming, and some of them offered me to become disciples. So I saw that most of the boys and girls, they are keeping the boyfriend, girlfriend. So I requested them that if you want to make progress in spiritual life, you have to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities, and these four kinds of sinful activities are illicit sex life, first; second, nonvegetarian diet; third, intoxication; *fourth, gambling. Unless one is free from these four principal activities, one cannot make progress in spiritual life. Because God is pure, pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, so no impure soul can approach Him. This body is the sign of impurity because soul has no material body. So anyone in this material world who has this material body is to be considered as sinful. But how to get out of this? To get out of it, everything, dovetailing with spiritual life. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. The example is just like milk. If you take too much milk, then there will be disorders in the bowels. You'll have to pass so many stools. But when you approach to a physician... Of course, I am speaking of the Āyur-Vedic Indian physician. If one has got diarrhea or loose bowels, then the physician prescribes curd or yogurt with some medicine. Now, this yogurt or curd is also mixed with medicine. So the man who has got the disease by drinking milk is also cured by the same milk preparation under the direction of the physician. Nobody can argue. The patient cannot argue to the physician that "I have become diseased by drinking milk, and you are prescribing another preparation of the milk?" Yes, because it is treated. Similarly, this lust propensity between man and woman, if it is properly treated, then it can turn into love of Godhead.

So I am a sannyāsī. I have renounced my family life. I have got my children, my grandchildren, I have my wife still living, but I have separated from them. This is called sannyāsa. Why I am taking interest again, this family life of my students? Because I want to see them properly progress towards spiritual life. Therefore, although it is not the business of a sannyāsī to take part in marriage ceremony, in this country, just to save my students, both boys and girls, from sinful activities, I am personally taking interest that they may become good gentleman and lady by marriage. So I am very happy that those boys and girls who have agreed, and they are now married and getting children, and they are feeling very happy. Many of them are present in this meeting. From their face, from their activities, it appears that they are very happy. So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we have got this program that if some boy or girl wants to get married, I help. So this marriage ceremony is today arranged on that principle. But the present bride and bridegroom must know it certainly that this marriage is not for sense gratification. This marriage is for purification of life. So there is no question of divorce. There is no question of separation. So don't get into married life if you have got such propensity. Our first principle is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and other things, secondary. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. If you can produce nice children, Kṛṣṇa conscious children, it will, you will do greatest service to the human society. Because the human society is producing children like cats and dogs, the whole human society is in trouble. How you can expect peace and prosperity in the society of cats and dogs? Therefore there is necessity. There is necessity to produce children of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to train them from the very beginning. You will be all glad to know that some of our students, very small boys in San Francisco, they are being trained, and they are making wonderful progress. So there is no fault of these hippie boys and girls. They have not been trained. Not only here, every part of the world, the educational system is not very satisfactory. From the very beginning of their life they are allowed to mix freely, and they are allowed to enjoy sex life unrestricted. This is neither good for their health nor for education. So therefore we are getting now the result of education: communists and hippies. So people, those who are guardians of the society, should take serious note of it and make life very regulated.

*What is...? The necessities of this life is, because we have got this material body, we must eat, we must sleep, we must defend, and we must mate. These are the demands of this body. But they should be so regulated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that it will not be disturbing element, but we shall make progress further and further towards spiritual realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore, not only the new bride and bridegroom, I request every one of my students who are present that this... The aim of married life is to produce nice children, Kṛṣṇa conscious children. That is the best service to the human society: produce nice children. Don't produce cats and dogs. That is my request. Otherwise don't produce. Remain separate. Separate means there is no separation, but don't produce children. That is my request. Putrārthe... Pitā na sa syāj jananī sā syāt. The Bhāgavata says, "One should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they are able to protect the children from the imminent danger of death." What is that? The cycle of birth and death. If you can train your children to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then your child will go back to Godhead in this life. That should be the aim. As you will try to go back to Godhead in this life, similarly, you shall take charge of your children that he can also go in this life back to Godhead. The mother's and father's duty should be that "This child is born out of my womb, and this is the last phase of his life, to come into this womb of any animal or man*-no more material body." That should be the responsibility of father and mother. That is the direction of Bhāgavata.

So my dear children, boys and girls, I request you that live happily. There is no restriction. We don't restrict eating, sleeping, or mating, or defending. But do it in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, pure life, and be happy in this life and next life.

Thank you very much. Now come forward. I shall begin our... Where is your father and mother? You can please come here. Yes. You can sit down here with the girls. Or give them some pads. They will feel... They are not accustomed to sit. (chuckles) Yes. My disciples, they have been accustomed. (chuckles)

Satyabhāmā: Paramānanda's parents are here also.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them come also.



Satyabhāmā: (aside:) Would you like to sit on cushions?



Prabhupāda: So both the parents agree in this marriage.



Satyabhāmā's father: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. Now those who are initiated, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa on your beads. (devotees chant japa) [break] (recitation of fire sacrifice prayers)



Prabhupāda: Now, you are father?



Satyabhāmā's father: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: So you can say to your son*-in-law that "So long my daughter such and such was under my custody. From today I am giving this daughter under your custody." Say it.



Satyabhāmā's father: Kate has been under me until now, and I give her unto your custody.



Prabhupāda: You say, "Yes, I accept."



Paramānanda: Yes, I accept.



Prabhupāda: And you say, "Yes, I agree."



Paramānanda's father: Yes, I agree.



Prabhupāda: Now you say that "My dear such and such, I agree to serve you throughout my life."



Satyabhāmā: Paramānanda, I agree to serve you throughout my life.



Prabhupāda: And you say, "My dear such and such, I take your charge of life throughout without hesitation."



Paramānanda: My dear Satyabhāmā, I take your charge of life throughout without hesitation.



Prabhupāda: So there is no separation in any circumstances. Promise that. There is no separation in any circumstances.



Paramānanda: So there is no separation in any circumstances.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you garland this... You change the garland. Now you come to this side. You go to that side. Now you are legal husband and wife. Is that all right? Yes. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] (prayers, fire sacrifice) Now offer this plantain like this, slowly. Thank you.



*Satyabhāmā: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees repeat last prayer of sacrifice after Prabhupāda, the mahā*-mantra.)



Prabhupāda: Now bow down. (leads in recitation of praṇāma mantra) You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





681225WE.LA

Wedding of Śyāma dāsī and Hayagrīva

-

Los Angeles, December 25, 1968



(fire sacrifice)

Prabhupāda: (devotees chant responsively:)



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



Yes, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) (devotees chant responsively:)



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



(japa) That is that... That mantra? Thank you.



Govinda dāsī: There's more if you want to give more. I didn't know what you had in mind, so I made two, three of each.



Prabhupāda: Three? You have got three? (responsively:)



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



*Vande 'ham... (chants prayers standard for fire sacrifice) So today's wedding ceremony between Śrīman Hayagrīva brahmacārī and Śrīmatī Śyāma dāsī is practically negotiated by me. I am the marriage maker and I am the negotiator also. How? Because I have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in this country to make people happy: happy in this life, happy in next life. This is not temporary sense happiness. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated that,



mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*"Anyone who comes back to Me," Kṛṣṇa says, "anyone who goes back to Godhead, then he does not require to come back again to this place, which is full of miseries." Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Duḥkhālayam means it is a place of misery, this material world. And aśāśvatam. Aśāśvatam means temporary. Even if I agree, "All right, it is a miserable place. Let me live here perpetually," no. That also will not be allowed. As soon as there will be order, "Please get out," you have no power to remain. Suppose... We are Indian. We are poverty*-stricken or we are not very happy materially. You American people, you are very happy. But the nature of law is stringent both for the Indians and Americans equally. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is particularly to go back to Godhead, giving up this material world, which is full of miserable life. It is actually full of miseries, but those who are thinking that "I am happy," or "We are happy," they are under illusion, māyā. That is called māyā. Actually, there is no happiness, because the Supreme Personality of Godhead says it is a place of misery. How you can make it comfortable place?



*So this is one side. Another side, that some way or other, since I have begun this movement in this country, generally, the youngsters, they come to me. Maybe to some other reasons. But my disciples up to date, they're all from twenty to thirty years old. Those who are thirty, thirty*-two years, they're old. They're amongst the elder generation. But I see the boys and girls, they come to me as friends. But according to our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we do not allow boys and girls living without any marriage bondage. Illicit sex life we don't allow. We prohibit four things: illicit sex life, intoxication, and meat-eating and gambling. Those who become our student, we prohibit first of all these four things. And if we find some of the girls and some of the boys, they are strictly following, and if they are agreeable, then we arrange for their marriage. So there are many instances of marriage like this. They were living very irresponsibly in the former life. Now they are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Some of my students, they are married couples, young men. Six of them have gone to England. They are preaching very nicely. Very nicely. They have attracted the attention of respectable gentlemen like Lord Mountbatten, Lord Sorenson, and the High Commissioner of India, Mr. Dhavan. So they're doing very nicely. So our principle is to make people God conscious; thereby they will be happy. And the method is very simple. Just like we do not deny anything. We give nice wife, we give nice husband, we give nice foodstuff, we give nice philosophy, and at last, we give the nicest thing, Kṛṣṇa. So our program is very nice. Any gentleman come and discuss with us. We shall prove this is the nicest program at the present moment.

So I am very happy that Professor Howard Wheeler, he is very obedient student. And by God's grace, Kṛṣṇa's grace, we practically met on the street. You see. When I first started my class in New York, 26 Second Avenue, I was just going out after entering the storefront and this boy met me. He asked me, "Swamijī, you are coming from India?" And I told him, "Yes, my dear boy." So that was our first acquaintance, and I think that is eternal.

Devotees: Jaya!



*Prabhupāda: That is eternal. Similarly, this girl also met me in San Francisco, and she is very faithfully living with this society. She is very mild. So I have selected, "Śyāma dāsī, you should marry Hayagrīva." So they have agreed. And there is no separation. Our relationship is eternal. There is no separation. And this marriage is primarily for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bodily relationship is secondary. That is not a very important thing. Our first engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in this happy ceremony, I have got my heartfelt blessings upon you. You be happy. Our parents are present here. It is a very nice arrangement. And forget... In any circumstances... This material world we have to pass through many circumstances, but sometimes, even it is intolerable, we have to tolerate. So according to Hindu conception of life, even there is some misunderstanding between husband and wife, it is not taken very seriously. Never taken very seriously. But in your country, in the name of liberty and freedom, there are so many things. I do not wish to discuss all those things. But according to Vedic system, husband and wife, united together, there cannot be any separation. Perhaps you have heard the name of Mahatma Gandhi. He was married when he was student, sixteen years old, and his wife was also of the same age. Later on Mahatma Gandhi became a very famous man. So one day there was husband and wife quarrel. So Mahatma Gandhi, he has written in his own biography, he drove away the wife: "You get out from my house." So the wife got out of the house and was crying in the street, "Where shall I go?" And again Mahatma Gandhi went there, "Come on." So even there was quarrel between Mahatma Gandhi and his wife. So this quarrel of husband and wife is not very serious thing. So I'll request you, even there is some misunderstanding, forget it. Don't take it seriously. Simply you concentrate on Kṛṣṇa consciousness business. You have got nice business now, both of you, conjointly working for editing my Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. You consult in that business and live peacefully. You are educated, she is also educated. If there is any misunderstanding, don't take it seriously. That is my request. Besides that, I am always at your service, I am always (here) to help you. So this marriage ceremony is very happy occasion. I shall request all friends, relatives, parents, to give their blessings to this nice couple and let us perform.



Now I shall request Mr... What?

Mr. Morris: Morris.



Prabhupāda: Morris. So you say that "Howard, this girl was in my charge so long. Now I give you in your charge." You say and...



Mr. Morris: Howard, this child was mine for so long, and now I give her care to you.



Prabhupāda: You say that "I take charge of Śyāma dāsī, of you, throughout your whole life." You say.



Hayagrīva: I take charge of you, Śyāma dāsī, throughout your whole life.



Prabhupāda: And Śyāma dāsī, you say that "I promise I shall serve you to my best capacity throughout my life."



Śyāma dāsī: I promise that I will serve you to my best capacity throughout my life.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you change your garland. All right. So somebody go and bind this cloth. Yes. Some girl may do that. Yes. (chuckling) Yes. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So, it is very nice combination.



Devotee: Kīrtana?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You can take photograph of this nice picture. Come here in the front. (kīrtana) (responsively:)



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ

śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



*vande 'ham... lalitā-śrī*-viśākhānvitāṁś ca



svāhā, svāhā, svāhā



(chants fire sacrifice prayers with oblation after each) Now stand up with one banana each.



*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



(repeats twice) Just put like this, slowly. Yes. Thank you. (responsively:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (repeats twice more responsively) Bow down. Bow down. (responsively:)



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



Jaya. Go on. Be happy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So next. Come on. You have no dress? You have no dress? All right.



Devotee: Kīrtana, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on, kīrtana. (Prabhupāda gives first line of Gāyatrī, devotee repeats word for word) Now, you Godbrothers will teach you how to... Who is next? Who is next? Who is next? (kīrtana) (some conversation with Prabhupāda in background) ...otherwise they will go away. Little, little. Very little, little. There are so many varieties. (kīrtana) (end)





690506WE.BOS

Wedding Ceremony and Lecture

-

Boston, May 6, 1969



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this is very simple method: chant, dance, eat nicely, and realize God. First of all give to the audience, then... (devotees chanting japa) Why don't you collect something, door? Right side bride, left side bridegroom.



Jāhnavā: Right side bride. (wedding fire sacrifice begins)



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right.



Devotee: Your right side. (devotees chanting japa)



Prabhupāda: And who is going to be this grain ceremony?



Himāvatī: Dayal Nitāi?



*Prabhupāda: Little, little. You have not learned your hand? Left*-handed. Three times. Just see. You are old. You should learn it. One, two, three, four. That's all. One, two. You don't see? What I'll do? Come on. I'll show you again. One, two, three, four. Do it again. Is it open? (devotees chanting japa)



Satsvarūpa(?): Yes.



Prabhupāda: Anyone's father, mother has come?



Rukmiṇī: My father and mother.



Prabhupāda: Your father, mother? Any other? No. (chants with devotees responding:)



oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ



śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu



Chant it three times. Three times (devotees responding:)

*vande 'haṁ śrī*-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca

*śrī*-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam

*sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana*-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ

*śrī*-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gana-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master and of all the other preceptors on the path of devotional service. I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇavas and unto the six Gosvāmīs, including Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī and their associates. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Śrī Advaita Ācārya Prabhu, Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and all His devotees, headed by Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura. I then offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and all the gopīs, headed by Lalitā and Viśākhā.]



(chants standard prayers for fire sacrifice)



*This evening we are going to hold a marriage ceremony for three couples of our students. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to understand to always bear in mind or always be in consciousness that we are eternally related with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So the process is to utilize this human form of life for elevating oneself to the highest perfectional stage. There is evolution of life from lowest animal in the water and up to the highest platform or highest planetary life, where the duration of life is many, many millions of years. The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka, or where the first created being, Brahmā, lives. The duration of Brahmā's life is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā that forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand makes one twelve hours of that Brahmaloka. Just like there is distinction of the duration of life between the microbes and the human being, similarly, there are different grades of different duration of life in different stage of planetary system. So the life is evolving. Now after evolutionary process from the lower animals, from the aquatics to plant life, vegetable life, then microbes, reptiles, birds, beasts, then we come to the human form of life, this civilized form of life. Now here it is just like crossing. Where we should go next life? Whether I shall promote myself to the higher planetary system or into the spiritual sky, Vaikuṇṭhaloka, or I shall go down again in the evolutionary process of lower animals? That is to be decided. So if we want to go to the higher planetary system, we can go there. If we want to stay here, we can do that. If we want to go down, that we can do. And if we want to go back to Godhead, that also we can do. So this facility is given in this human form of life. Now it is our choice, where shall I go? Shall I go down to hell, or shall I go up to heaven, or I shall go back to Godhead, back to home? Everything we can do. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is directly approaching the spiritual sky, back to home, back to Godhead. No more evolutionary process. That is the advantage of this Kṛṣṇa conscious... If you make your consciousness completely absorbed in Kṛṣṇa, if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is your relationship, how you have to act in that relationship, simply if you learn this science in this life, then it is assured by the Lord Himself, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: [Bg. 4.9] "After leaving this body, one does not come again back to this material world to accept one of the 8,400,000's of species of body, but he goes directly unto Me." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. "And if one can go back there, then he does not come back again in this material world to accept this material body." And material body means three kinds of miseries, threefold miseries always. And at least threefold miseries are exhibited in four kinds of distresses, namely birth, death, old age, and disease.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new movement. It is there always in the Vedic scriptures, but people have forgotten. So we are trying to revive that movement, although in India the movement is there always, especially since the last five hundred years, introduced by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In your country it is introduced since 1966. But people are appreciating. We have got many books and literature, magazines, to convince people about the importance of this movement. And those who are coming to be a serious student of this movement, initiated, they require to follow four principles of regulation. That one, first regulation, is that the student is not allowed to have illicit sex life. In this country, the guardians, the teachers, the government allows the boys and girls to meet together and have illicit sex life without marriage. That is not allowed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If any boy or girl wants sex life, then he should regularly be married. That is civilized way. Because in the civilized society there is marriage ceremony. According to Vedic system, the father and mother's responsibility is for the child unless they are married. It is the duty of the parents to see that the girl and the boy is married by the supervision of the parents. That is the Vedic way of civilization. In India the... Especially for the girls. If the girl is above the age of 13 years old, and if she is not married by the father, or in the absence of father, the elder brother... Mother has not so much responsibility. But the father or the elder brother... Then it is said that that man, father or elder brother, will go to hell. So it is a great responsibility to take care of the girls. According to Manu*-saṁhitā, Vedic principle, woman has no independence. She must be taken care of by somebody. In the early age the father is to take care, in the younger age the husband, a good husband has to take care, and when she is old, the elderly son, he has to take care. But a woman is never allowed to remain independent. That is Vedic principle of life. Actually, the woman is the weaker sex. They require protection by good father, good husband, and good child also. In my case also... There are many cases. I've left my home. I have got my wife, my elderly children, my grandchildren. So they are taking care of my wife. She has no concern. So that is the way of social system. And especially in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we want to give the students complete peace of mind, because without peace of mind nobody can cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



There is a process. This science of understanding God, the science of God, is a great science. People have no knowledge about it, but it is a great science. And the ways and means of understanding God is different from ordinary material science. So the ways and means and the process of understanding the science of Godhead is to hear.



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*God is situated in everyone's heart. Simply you do not know. He is situated. He is everywhere. Within the atom also, He is present. Andantarastham paramanu cayantarastham. God is present within this world, within everything, everywhere, even within the atom. Now, at the present moment, the atomic theory is very prominent, but in the Vedic literature it is said that God is existing even within the atom. Aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu. Paramāṇu means atom. Therefore īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Ṅśvara, the Supreme Lord, is sitting within your heart. I am also sitting. This is dress. This body is dress, but my place is within the heart. The medical science also says all the energy is coming from the heart. The heart stops to work, that means man is dead. So the soul and the Supersoul both are sitting in the heart. We get this information from Vedic literature. So as soon as we begin hearing about the Supersoul or the Supreme Lord, then the contamination which are accumulated on the covering of our heart for so many years of our past work, by simply hearing, by electrifying or by lighting, it becomes clear. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. To hear about God is itself a pious activity. Even if we do not understand, simply if we hear this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma..., one becomes gradually a pious man. Apart from any other realization, he becomes a pious man. In this way, as soon as we hear about God, we become cleansed of all material contamination. Then our three modes of material nature, namely we are... This world is moving under three modes: the modes of goodness, the modes of passion and the modes of ignorance. So generally, people are influenced by the modes of passion and modes of ignorance. Very few people are on the modes of goodness. But this process of hearing about God will gradually place one on the platform of the modes of goodness. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. And the symptoms, as soon as he's placed on the modes of goodness, the symptom will be that he'll feel satisfied. He'll feel satisfied. Prasīdati. In this way, when he is satisfied, when he is on the platform of goodness or the platform of satisfaction... That is wanted. Prasanna-manaso. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso [SB 1.2.20]. How it is attained? Simply by hearing, the process. Process is simply hearing, submissively hearing. Then he comes to the platform of goodness, and at that time, the passion and ignorance is completely moved out. And then he can understand what is the science of God, what is God, what is relationship.



*So we want to give chance to all to raise oneself on that platform of goodness. And on the platform of goodness, there is no chance of indulging in passion and ignorance. Therefore although it is not my duty... Because I am a sannyāsī, I have nothing to do with social activity. Still, because in this country, mostly I see the boys and girls are not married, I have introduced this marriage system in our society, and the result is very good. You'll be very pleased to know that in London I have sent six boys and girls who were married by me in my presence. Formerly, they were not married. You know as the other boys and girls lived, they were also living in that way. But the result has been very excellent. They are preaching there Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are not very big philosopher, nor Vedantist, neither, I mean to say, born in the Vedic civilized way-just like ordinary way-but they have been trained only under my direction for only two years. But they are working in London very wonderfully, so much so that people have come to know that there is a movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and London Times, in big heading, they wrote, "Kṛṣṇa Chanting Startles London." So formerly many sannyāsīs went there to introduce this movement, but they failed. But these sincere boys and girls... They are not very aged also*-not more than twenty-six years, any one of them. But they are doing very nice. So the platform of purity is so nice that they can play tremendous...

*So we want such pairs in our society. We are not dry. Everything is there. The hedonists, they want eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. These four things for the hedonists, they are going to hell. But our, the same things are there. We are dancing, we are chanting, we are eating, and we have love also between husband and wife, between boys and girls. We allow everything. But everything is targeted to achieve to the highest goal of life, Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa. That is the significance of this life. We don't stop anything, but we regulate everything to achieve the highest perfection of life. That is our aim. Adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram [SB 7.5.30]. One who does not know this technique... Everyone, every living entity, is by nature hankering after joy, joyful life. That is his nature. Because... Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, you see. They are also transcendental unity. Kṛṣṇa is representing as a young boy, sixteen years. Similarly, Rādhārāṇī is also a young girl. They are chanting and They are playing on flute and They're enjoying life. They have got Their associates. So it is not dry, but it is highest perfectional stage, in purity. Not in the material modes of passion and ignorance. So everyone is hankering after that pure, joyful life, but he does not know where to get it. That is the defect. That information we are giving. Here is the life. You just try to approach Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and you'll have full life of enjoyment. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is stated that the Supreme Person, the Supreme Lord, is full of enjoyment. He's not morose. He's not old. He is not without a joyful life. He is full of joyful life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to transfer everyone to that platform of full joyful life. So in order to give them facility for acquiring this highest goal of life, we have introduced the marriage... The marriage system is there also according to our Vaiṣṇava smṛti. Smṛti means regulative, the law book, the statute book. Married life is there. We are preaching the cult of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He also married. All the five associates of Lord Caitanya, they also married. Kṛṣṇa also married. So marriage is not bad. Marriage is... It is not that unless one becomes a sannyāsī or a strict brahmacārī, he cannot attain the highest perfection of life. No. Even in married life. But one has to adjust it. Married life means not sex enjoyment. It is not a license for sex enjoyment. Although it is some sort of license, but it can be utilized. It can be utilized for producing children of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And at least, one should be satisfied. The husband will help the wife, the wife will help the husband advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness for the benefit of their country, for the benefit of the total human society.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (obeisances)



Prabhupāda: You're, nobody is guardian? First of all, you come here. Both of you, come sit down. Satsvarūpa? Where is Satsvarūpa?



Satsvarūpa: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Come here. So you can say that "Śāradīyā, my Godsister, was so long under my care. Now I give Śāradīyā to you, Vaikuṇṭhanātha, in your charge."



Satsvarūpa: Śāradīyā, my Godsister, has so long been in my charge. Now I give you unto my Godbrother Vaikuṇṭhanātha.



Prabhupāda: Now you say that "I accept her as my wife."



Vaikuṇṭhanātha: I accept her as my wife.



Prabhupāda: "And take charge of her..."



Vaikuṇṭhanātha: And take charge of her...



Prabhupāda: "...throughout her life..."



Vaikuṇṭhanātha: ...throughout her life...



Prabhupāda: "...and shall see to her comfort, provide with all necessities of life, without thinking of any personal gratification." (Vaikuṇṭhanātha repeats) You say that "I accept you as my husband. (Śāradīyā repeating) I shall serve you throughout my life as your most obedient servant." (chuckling) Yes. "And we shall live together peacefully for prosecuting Kṛṣṇa consciousness, forgetting everything else, and live happily." Now change your garlands.



Devotees: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: Now you sit down and cover the head. Yes. Cover the head. Yes. Just like... There is no, that red? Vermillion?



Himāvatī: Where is that red crayon?



Prabhupāda: Now you can sit down there, next her. No, you sit left. Now change. You sit here. Yes. Now she'll always remain on your left. You come forward. Now you say...



Satsvarūpa: Jāhnavā has so long, my Godsister, has so long been in my care. I now give her over to Nanda Kiśora prabhu.



Prabhupāda: You say you shall "take charge of Jāhnavā, my wife, (Nanda Kiśora repeating) and I shall look after her comforts throughout her life, and I shall supply her all necessities of life." And you say that "I accept you as my husband. (Jāhnavā repeating) I shall see to your comfort throughout my life. Without any separation we shall live peacefully, in happiness and distress, without any separation, for executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Change your garland and place. Jaya. Now you cover her head like that. Yes. Not in that way. From this part. All right. Change your seat. Yes.



Devotee: Should he apply it?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You apply it. That's all right. Now you come, You, sit down here. Sit down here. First of all, sit down. Your father is present?



Rukmiṇī: Yes.



Prabhupāda: You may come sit here. You can say that "My daughter was in charge of me so long, now I give in charge to this boy."



Rukmiṇī's father: My daughter was in charge of me so long. I now give her to...



Prabhupāda: His name is Baradrāja.



Rukmiṇī's father: Baradrāja.



Prabhupāda: So you say, "I accept (Baradrāja repeating) Rukmiṇī as my wife. I shall maintain her throughout my life, supply all necessities of life, and we shall work together for prosecuting Kṛṣṇa consciousness." You say that "I accept you (Rukmiṇī repeating) as my husband, and I shall serve you as your most obedient wife, to keep you in all comforts, in all distress and happiness, and we shall continue our life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Now change. Change the garland. Mind that this promise has been made before Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. You cannot change all these promises. Change your seat. Cover the head. Cover the head and give her this red. Cover it nicely. You see, here. You should keep your wife always covered. (laughter) Don't allow this miniskirt or minishirt. (laughter) According to Vedic civilization, respectable woman cannot be seen even by the sun. Asūryaṁ paśyat. How can you avoid sun? But it is said like that. The sun will find difficulty to see one man's woman. Yes. Asūryaṁ paśyat. Asūryam. Sūrya means the sun. Sun cannot. Sun will also hanker after her: "How can I see that woman?" (chuckles) So woman should be always in privacy. They should be respectfully protected by the husband and the father. That is the way. All right. Then it is finished. Now let us perform yajña. (devotees offer obeisances) Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. After performance of yajña. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Mix it. Mix it.



Satsvarūpa: ...can use that?



Prabhupāda: No, no. Hand. Now you can sit comfortably. (devotees chant japa) Now take, you know, little, little, everyone. When I say "svāhā" three times, very little, little take. We'll have to continue. (responsively with devotees:) Namaḥ apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthām... No, why you are not chanting? (devotees were responding softly, now more loudly) ...gato 'pi vā yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ. Śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu śrī viṣṇu. (continues prayers for fire sacrifice). Why not take a group photo of these newly married couples? It will be nice.



Guest: That'd be great. It'd be beautiful. Sure.



Himāvatī: Should they go behind or should they turn around?



Prabhupāda: As you like.



Guest: Could the wife be seated and the husband in back of her?



Prabhupāda: Just like they are sitting, left and right.



Guest: ...if we had a better place to...



Prabhupāda: (continues chanting) Svāhā svāhā svāhā. So you want to take just now or after finishing this?



Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, he wants a couple there, a couple there, and a couple behind you.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Guest: Or maybe two couples here and a third couple over there or something.



Prabhupāda: You come here. Sit down there. Yes, sit down. Yes, like that. Why you are standing? Sit. (continues prayers)



*namo gaura*-kiśorāya sākṣād-vairāgya-mūrtaye

*vipralambha*-rasāmbodhe pādāmbhujāya te namaḥ

svāhā svāhā svāhā



*namo bhaktivinodāya sac*-cid-ānanda-nāmine

*gaura-śakti*-svarūpāya rūpānuga-varāya te

svāhā svāhā svāhā



(continues prayers for fire sacrifice) Now you take one banana, this part of banana, and stand up. Take each one of you. Supply. Stand up.



*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



(repeats twice) Now take this, silently. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (repeats) Now bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



(Prabhupāda repeats twice) All right. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!



Prabhupāda: And be happy.



Devotees: Haribol! All glories to Śrī Guru and Śrī Gaurāṅga! Haribol! All glories to Prabhupāda!



*Prabhupāda: Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Dance, chant now. Enjoy life. (kīrtana*-Prabhupāda talking in background) (kīrtana, prema-dhvanī) (obeisances) Prasāda? You are sitting uncomfortably?



Guest: No. (devotees chant japa)



Prabhupāda: Now distribute prasāda. (bhajana: Govinda jaya jaya)



Haṁsadūta: There's no draft? The window's not open? (kīrtana in background)



Prabhupāda: No, no. That's all right. I have informed your brother in Germany, Kṛṣṇa dāsa, "Your sister is going to be married..." Stop. You can now eat. Stop. (kīrtana stops)



Devotee: Take prasādam.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Take prasādam. You can play the records. That's all. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... You also eat. Everyone eat. Yes. I think it is nicely prepared. You can take one plate. (laughter) Yes. ("Hare Kṛṣṇa Happening" record comes on as everyone takes prasāda) Let me see (?).



*catur*-vidha-śrī-bhagavat-prasāda-

*svādv*-anna-tṛptān hari-bhakta-saṅghān

kṛtvaiva tṛptiṁ bhajataḥ sadaiva

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



The spiritual master is satisfied when nice foodstuff, prasādam, is distributed, and it is eaten by the devotees. Our is not dry speculation. Everything substantial.



Himāvatī: We need another plate.



Prabhupāda: These Press representatives, they are taking?



Haṁsadūta: Yes, they're all from the Press.



Prabhupāda: So you have not offered them prasādam?



Himāvatī: Everyone has.



Prabhupāda: They should have been given. Anyway, something should have been given. You are going? She is going with her father?



Himāvatī: He was once in Montreal. Remember? Rukmiṇī's father once came to Montreal?



Prabhupāda: Yes. She is her mother?



Himāvatī: Yes.



Prabhupāda: She is not elderly. Mother is eating?



Himāvatī: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Forty, thirty*-five years.



Himāvatī: Yes. Rukmiṇī is only seventeen. Rukmiṇī is seventeen. She's not very old.



Prabhupāda: She is only... She is the first child?



Himāvatī: I don't know. I think so, first child. She has one sister.



Satsvarūpa: Just one announcement. Tomorrow night is Swami Bhaktivedanta's last appearance, last lecture, last kīrtana in Boston, and that's at the International Student's Association. They have a place at 33 Garden (?) Street. He'll be speaking there. But we'll be carrying on this sublime teaching, especially in the form of saṅkīrtana. We'll be chanting in the streets. We'll be pushing this more than anything. Then the feast, of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa Love Feast. But especially if you see us in the parks and the streets, join us and feel this real transcendental bliss by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, all summer, as long as the weather is nice. (indistinct) a basket around. If you can give something it will help for the cost of this feast and wedding. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





690514WE.COL

*Initiation of Śrī*-Caitanya dāsa and

Wedding of Pradyumna and Arundhatī

-

Columbus, May 14, 1969



*Prabhupāda: It is stated, cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The Lord says that "The four divisions of social order-namely the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, śūdras-these divisions were created by Me," and guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ, "not by birthright but by identification of qualities and actual work." In the similar way, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, it is stated that yasya hi yad varṇābhivyañjakam, lakṣaṇaṁ syāt. Yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ syād varṇābhivyañjakam, tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. The whole Vedic system is to pick up qualitative persons. There is no such thing as birthright qualification. And Śrīdhara Swami, the greatest commentator on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has commented on this verse, yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ syād varṇābhivyañjakam tat tenaiva vinirdiśet, yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet: [SB 7.11.35] "If such qualities are found in another platform, then he should be designated in that position." Just like if a boy born of a brāhmaṇa family, he has got the qualities of a śūdra, he should be indicated as śūdra. And if a boy born of a śūdra family but he has got the brāhmaṇa's qualities, then he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is accepting persons who are developing the qualities of brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas. It is not that because they were not born in India and not born in Hindu family... It is not... There is no such consideration. Anyone. Ye kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that,

kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*It doesn't matter whether a man is a śūdra or a brāhmaṇa or a sannyāsī or a householder. It doesn't matter. If he actually knows the science of God, Kṛṣṇa*-tattva... Kṛṣṇa means God, the Supreme Lord, and tattva means scientific knowledge. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vetta sei guru haya. And another place Lord Caitanya says that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra sarva deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. To become a spiritual master, one may think it is very difficult job. Yes, it is very difficult job, but it is also very simple thing. Very difficult job in this way: If one cannot assimilate the Vedic knowledge, veda-vāda-paraḥ pārtha nānyad astīti vādinaḥ, if they become simply Vedic student only, without assimilating, then it is very difficult. But if one can understand what is the idea of Vedic principle, then it is very easy. So what is the idea of Vedic principle? The Lord says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. By different scriptures, Vedic literature, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata... There are so many allied scriptures. The whole aim is, target is, Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam. So actually the Vedas are searching Kṛṣṇa. In the Brahma-saṁhitā also it is stated,



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



It is very difficult to find out Kṛṣṇa within the Veda. But if you are fortunate enough to contact a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then he can deliver you. And if one understands Kṛṣṇa, then he understands the whole *Vedas*.



*So this merciful benediction was given by Lord Kṛṣṇa, er, by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32]. He is Kṛṣṇa. Categorically, He is Kṛṣṇa, or chanting Kṛṣṇa. But by complexion He is akṛṣṇa. Tviṣākṛṣṇam. So He gave us this greatest benediction, that you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and you get all knowledge. The greatest impediment of acquiring knowledge is congestion of our heart with dirty things. And Lord Caitanya says that if you chant without any offense very nicely, then your heart becomes cleansed of all dirty things. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And then you are liberated. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati [Bg. 18.54]. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on Lord Caitanya's teachings and teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā. It is not a new thing. Of course, in this country it is being presented for the last two years, but the thing is not new. It is the oldest because, if we take the version of Bhagavad-gītā, Lord (Kṛṣṇa) says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "This yoga system, Bhagavad-gītā, was spoken by Me to Vivasvān, the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha: "And the sun*-god said to his son Manu." Manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: [Bg. 4.2] "In this way it is coming." So kaleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "But unfortunately that link has been broken; *therefore I am speaking again to you the old philosophy, yoga system, Bhagavad*-gītā, unto you, Arjuna." "Why You are speaking to me? I am not a Vedantist. I am not a sannyāsī. I am not even brāhmaṇa. Why You want to teach me?" Bhakto 'si: "Because you are My devotee." Therefore the first qualification of understanding the Vedas or Bhagavad-gītā is to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa; *otherwise it is blocked. Just like if you take a bottle of honey and lick it on the bottle, you won't get the taste. It has to be opened, who has got the key. Then you get the taste of honey. So Bhagavad*-gītā cannot be understood by academic scholarship. It is not possible, the same bottle-licking. But it has to be opened by the devotee, just like Arjuna opened it: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. He understood Kṛṣṇa. So we have to follow the opener of the bottle, honey bottle. Then you will taste what is Bhagavad-gītā.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to purify the human society. And the purification process, simply by chanting, is sufficient. But still, our Gosvāmīns, they have given us some ritualistic ceremonies. That will help the process of purification. Sacrifice, offering, these things are there. But the main thing is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is sufficient. So in our society we want to establish divine society. Therefore there is need of all classes of men and all classes of social orders. Our Vedic conception is varṇāśrama*-dharma. The "Hindu" term is not found in any Vedic literature. It is a name given by the Muhammadans, so far I know. It is not... Real term is varṇāśrama-dharma, sanātana-dharma, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas: brāhmaṇa kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, according to qualification... And Bhagavad-gītā also says these are the qualification, brāhmaṇas: satya śama dama titikṣa ārjavam, ācāryopāsanam, brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Similarly, there are indication of the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas; *and śūdras' one qualification: paricaryātmakaṁ karmaṁ śūdra*-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Paricaryā, to serve others. And in this age, because everyone is after employment-without employment he cannot survive-therefore it is said, kalau śūdra sambhava. In the Kali-yuga... A brāhmaṇa is not expected to serve anyone. A kṣatriya is not expected to serve anyone, nor the vaiśyas. Only the śūdras. So kalau śūdra sambhava. Therefore actually there is no Vedic ritualistic performance for the śūdras. It is meant for the brāhmaṇas only. But there is pāñcarātrikī-viddhi for this age, when śūdras can be elevated to the position of brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava by the Vaiṣṇava-viddhi. That viddhi is a voluminous book by Sanātana Gosvāmī. But there is everything, how a brahmacārī will live, how a gṛhastha will live, how a vānaprastha will live. The summary is being practiced. And we are holding now, today, two ceremonies. Some of the boys and girls will be initiated, primarily, and one couple will be married. So according to Hindu rites, there are many kinds of marriage, eight kinds of marriages. So in this age, as we find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, marriage can be performed simply by agreement. Svīkāram eva hi udvāhe. That is sufficient. And actually it is being carried on in every country. The boys and girls go to a magistrate and give their statement and agree. That is marriage. Here also the same principle will be carried under some Vaiṣṇava rites, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and offering prayers to the ācāryas and Deities.

*So we have got all the Vedic arrangement, varṇāśrama*-dharma, but our only aim is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether one is householder or a sannyāsī or a brahmacārī or a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or a vaiśya, śūdra. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.46]. Everyone should engage his energy to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*You never mind in whatever condition you are. You may be a brāhmaṇa. You may be a kṣatriya or a śūdra or... You have got particular duty. That's all. That makes you a brāhmaṇa and a śūdra or a brahmacārī. But whatever particular duty you may have, just try to see whether by your duty this Supreme Lord is satisfied. Then it is perfect. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. That is the test: if you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa through His representative. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Just like we work in some big establishment, and if we can satisfy our immediate boss, that is the satisfaction of the whole company. You haven't got to see whether all the members of the company have become satisfied. Simply the immediate boss under which you are working, if he is satisfied, then you know the company is satisfied because he will submit the report of his work. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He is helping you in different ways. He is within your heart. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Antaryāmī. Caitya-guru. And is presenting Himself as spiritual master both ways, externally, internally. He is trying to help you. And when you are actually taking the advantage of that help, and if you are engaged with love and affection in the transcendental service of the Lord, then you can talk with God from within. God is within you. You haven't got to find out God in so many places. Anywhere you can sit down. But if you are sincere, if you are actually wanting to offer your service to the Lord-teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam [Bg. 10.10]*-He will give you intelligence. Simply we have to become sincere servitor.



*So it doesn't matter whether one is householder or a brahmacārī or sannyāsī. He has to become first of all sincere servitor of the Lord. Then everything is complete. The Lord is within you. He will give you all knowledge, all enlightenment, all dictation, and He will make your life progressive. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅgaḥ tato bhajana-kriyā, anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā tato rucis tato bhāvas tato prema [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. In this way your life will be sublime. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. And if you can contact the Supreme Personality of Godhead by some way or other by discharge of this devotional service in any position, never mind, then you will feel no more profit. Everyone in the material world, they are working hard day and night for some profit. But if you can be engaged in the service of the Lord, you will feel that you are so much profited that you will say, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I don't want any more profit. I have got all the profits now. I am fully satisfied." That is required. Yayātmā suprasīdati. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. You can... If you can develop that stage of life, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje... Adhokṣaje. The Lord is beyond your sensual perception; *therefore He is called Adhokṣaja. Avāṅ*-manasā gocaraḥ. But He can reveal Himself. That is His power. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. He reveals Himself. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ [Bs. 5.38]. You cannot reach the Absolute Truth simply by mental speculation because He is beyond your mental speculation. Avāṅ-manasā gocaraḥ. Sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. If you are absorbed in love of Godhead, then you will see God everywhere, within your heart and outside. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. That real purpose is bhakti. So anywhere you be situated, you take this process of loving service to the Lord, and the Lord will reveal Himself. Lord will reveal Himself.

So, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31].

kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā

bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā

anityam asukhaṁ lokam

imaṁ prāpya bhajasva mām

[Bg. 9.33]



*Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So the aim of life should be to become a pure devotee of the Lord. Then your life is successful. In whatever condition you may be, it doesn't matter. You will be situated in the highest stage.



yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthite guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



If you are situated in that position, then if you are put into the test of severe difficulties, you will not be moved. You will be steady. Na vicālyate. Just like we have got many instances. Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a little boy, five years old, and his only difficulty was that he became a devotee of the Lord. His father became enemy, atheistic father, Hiraṇyakaśipu. He tortured him like anything, but he was not to be moved. He was stuck, sticking to his own position. This is... And you have many instances in your, this part of the world. Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified, but still, he remained steady in his position. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was Muhammadan. When he took up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the Muhammadan government chastised him like anything. He remained steady. So these religious persecution, this and that, that is the history of the whole world. But if one sticks to the position of becoming pure devotee of the Lord, he has nothing to be afraid of. He will be steady, and he will prosecute his business steadily. Kṛṣṇa will help him. There is no doubt about it.



Thank you very much.

(ceremony follows, repeating prayers) [break] You shall begin here, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then you go to the next bead. In this way come to this side. Again begin from here. Come to this side. And do sixteen rounds. And you know the four rules and regulations? What is that?

*Śrī Caitanya: The four rules? No gambling, no meat*-eating, no sex out of marriage... [break]



Prabhupāda: Then other offenses he will give you, ten kinds of offenses. There is a list. So you should take from him now. Bow down.



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-presthāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



*(devotee repeats) So your name is Śrī*-Caitanya dāsa. I think there is no...



Devotees: Oh!



*Prabhupāda: Come on. Now here. Give me this. [break] ...bhū*-tale śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine. Thank you very much.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Haribol! [break] (fire sacrifice)



Arundhatī's father: Arundhatī.



Prabhupāda: (Arundhatī's father repeats) "...was so long under my care. Now I give you a charge. You please take and accept her as your wife." (Pradyumna repeats:) "Yes, I accept Arundhatī as my wife and I take charge of her life in all conditions. I will never separate with her and jointly we shall execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!



Prabhupāda: You say, (Arundhatī repeats) "I accept you as my husband, Pradyumna, and I shall help you in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout my life. I shall never separate from you in all conditions, in happiness or distress." Now you change the garland. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Now you... You put this cloth upon... Now cover the head. Yes. And give her head vermillion, red. [break] (prayers continue) Put silently on this. Now chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (devotees repeat) (Prabhupāda repeats) (end)





711117WE.DEL



Wedding Lecture

-

November 17, 1971, New Delhi



*Prabhupāda: This marriage is being performed as gandharva marriage, simply by changing the garlands. In the Kali*-yuga, the other kinds of marriage, selected by the parents, that is not possible. Therefore, one of the marriage system, gandharva marriage, is accepted. And simply by changing the garlands and promising. (Sanskrit) That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Kali-yuga, simply by accepting, the man accepts the woman as wife and the woman accepts the man as husband, that is the vow. Svīkāra eva hi udvāhe. Simply by acceptance. Because other things are not possible. And without marriage, that is not civilized life, because in the animal society there is no marriage. But in any form of civilized society there is marriage. Everyone has got sex appetite. Therefore, marriage is allowed by the Vedic system. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi, "Kāma, lust, which is not against religious principles, that is I am."



*So marriage is essential. So far our society is concerned, we don't allow anybody to remain in our society as friends, girlfriend or boyfriend. No. They must be married. And these boys and girls, after being married, they are preaching nicely Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All my students who are married, they are doing preaching work more than sannyāsī. Yes. In the Kali*-yuga, practically it is forbidden. Sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam kalau pañca vivarjayet, aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ.



aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ

*sannyāsaṁ pala*-paitṛkam

devareṇa sutotpattiṁ

kalau pañca vivarjayet

[Cc. Ādi 17.164]



*Formerly there was a system: if the husband is unable, then a son can be begotten by the husband's younger brother, devareṇa. But in this age, Kali*-yuga, that is forbidden. Similarly, aśvamedha yajña, gomedha yajña is also forbidden, because there is no yajñic brāhmaṇas. Formerly when an animal was put into the fire, sacrificed, and by Vedic mantra it was given a new, fresh life. That was the test of Vedic mantra pronouncing. But that is not possible nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, the only yajña is the sañkīrtana yajña.



*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*Those who are highly intellectual, su*-medhasaḥ, they perform the saṅkīrtana yajña, and by that saṅkīrtana yajña, the Lord, whose complexion is not black and who is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and is accompanied by His associates, sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ.



So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, everything is being performed according to the scriptural injunction. It is not that we are manufacturing something.



*yaḥ śāstra*-vidhim utsṛjya

*vartate kāma*-kārataḥ

na sa siddhim avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 16.23]



*So our initiation, our accepting a disciple as brāhmaṇa, they are all strictly according to Vedic injunctions. In this Kali-yuga, there is no vaidika dīkṣā because vaidika dīkṣā depends on the persons being a*-I mean to say-sanctified brāhmaṇa. A sanctified brāhmaṇa means that before his birth, the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is observed. If it is not observed, then he immediately falls down to the category of śūdra. Kalau śūdra sambhava. But there is pāñcarātrikī-vidhi given by Nārada, who said that one should be accepted in the category of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra according to symptoms. Yasya hi ya svabhāvasya.



yasya hi (yal) lakṣaṇaṁ (proktaṁ)

(puṁso) varṇābhivyañjakam

yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

[SB 7.11.35]



*There are symptoms of brahminical qualification, there are symptoms of kṣatriya qualification. So if these symptoms are observed in a different place, namely if the brahminical qualification is observed in the person of a śūdra, then that śūdra should not be called a śūdra, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly, if the śūdra qualification is observed in the family of a brāhmaṇa, then that person should be accepted as śūdra. This is the definition given by Nārada Muni while he was speaking about varṇāśrama*-dharma to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the initiation ceremony, the marriage ceremony, the sacred thread ceremony, whatever we observe, they are strictly according to the śāstra. That is our point. So for spiritual progress of life, it is necessary that all kinds of sinful activities must be stopped. Without being free from contamination of sinful life, nobody can make progress in spiritual life. Therefore, who is strictly observe these four principles to avoid sinful life, one of them is avaida stri saṅga. Therefore marriage is necessary. [break] (Hindi) (end)





731204WE.LA

*Address at Wedding of Bali*-mardana

-

Los Angeles, December 4, 1973



Prabhupāda:



parama karuṇa, pahū dui jana

nitāi gauracandra

saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi

*kevala ānanda*-khanda



*Locana dāsa Ṭhākura, he sings that "This Nitai*-Gaura incarnation, parama karuṇa-very, very merciful." Parama karuṇa, pahū dui jana: "Two lords, Nitai-Gaura." Parama karuṇa, pahū dui jana. Dui jana means two. Parama karuṇa, pahū dui jana, nitāi gauracandra: "Nityānanda and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, or Gaura Hari." Saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi kevala ānanda-khanda: "There are many incarnation, but Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda-simply ānanda, bliss." Ānanda, bliss, kevala ānanda-khanda. Now, for spiritual advancement, generally according to the Vedic system, so one has to accept the order of renounced life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally taught it, but He never condemned gṛhastha life, householder life. He rather said,



kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kena naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*One may be a gṛhastha or sannyāsī*-it doesn't matter-but he must be Kṛṣṇa-tattva-vit. He must know the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is required. So in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have got four orders: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Whichever position one can find himself suitable, he can accept that, and... But the main business is kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, and preach the cult all over the world, sei guru haya. Guru means preacher, to enlighten. One who can enlighten, he is guru.



*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



Guru means one who can open the eyes of the ignorant by the light of knowledge. He is guru.



*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is all*-round movement, all-round movement. Just like Kṛṣṇa, He took part in everything. Not that Kṛṣṇa simply was interested in Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Of course, everything is based on Vedic ritualistic ceremony. But Kṛṣṇa also took part in everything. He was a politician, He was a philosopher, He was a socialist, He was a communist-everything. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. So we recommend that in whatever position you feel comfortable, you can accept that, but, I mean to say, spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Parama ānanda-khanda. People will be happy. Our mission is to see sarve sukhino bhavantu: everyone become happy. We don't want to see that we exploit somebody else and I become happy. No. We want to see everyone happy. But they do not know how to become happy. Therefore we are trying to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that everyone will be happy. Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. In Bhagavad-gītā it is... Su-sukham; *to execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very easy. Kartum avyayam: and whatever you perform, it is permanent. Avyayam and su*-sukham, very pleasing. There is nothing very painful in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because Kṛṣṇa is ānanda, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), we are going under the protection of Kṛṣṇa, there must be always ānanda. But people do not know how to enjoy ānanda. They have been put into ignorance. The so-called leaders, so-called politicians, so-called philosophers, scientists, they are simply keeping the people in darkness. So we want to counteract this action of keeping people in darkness. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Vyāsadeva compiled this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam...

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

*bhakti*-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān

*cakre sātvata*-saṁhitām

[SB 1.7.6]



So people do not know it. So we are trying to spread this knowledge, how to become happy. So everyone should come forward and cooperate with this movement.



Thank you very much. (end)

General Lectures





660825LE.NY

Lecture Excerpt

-

New York, August 25, 1966



Prabhupāda: "You take to your teacher and give it to him." "All right. This will do?" "Oh, yes, this will do. This cup will do." Now, when the teacher saw that he is coming with a cup of yogurt and promised that he will supply, he would supply, whatever required, he would supply, oh, he became very angry: "You cheated me like that?" and so on. So he, out of anger, he throw it. Now, after some time, when he came back, he saw that the yogurt is fallen down on the ground, but the pot is full. Then he tried again; again got it. So as much as he could take, he took, but the pot is always full. The pot is always full. So this is the position of spiritual. From spiritual, you may draw as much as you can, but it always full. That is the spiritual idea. So God is so full. He's paripūrṇa, pūrṇa. So even God comes out of God, still, God is there. That is incarnation. If God Himself comes out of God... So therefore, God in the heart of so many millions and billions of living entities does not mean that God has lost Himself. God is still there. That is the spiritual idea. And this is not... I am not talking to you some manufactured, coining some word. No. There is Vedic hymn,

pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

[Iso Invocation]



All right. If there is any question, you can make... (end)





660908LE.NY

*Lecture on Mahā*-mantra

-

New York, September 8, 1966



Prabhupāda: The door is open? You can keep the door open. Yes. Īśvara... Just try to cite, recite this. (devotees repeat each word)



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



(repeats twice) Now, some of you members have asked me to explain the meaning of this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, this sound is transcendental sound, transcendental sound, incarnation, sound incarnation of the Absolute Truth. Just try to understand what is incarnation. Incarnation means... The Sanskrit word is avatāra, and that is translated into English as "incarnation." Of course, the root meaning of incarnation I cannot exactly explain to you, but the root meaning of the... (aside:) Somebody stop. Yes. The root meaning of avatāra is "which comes from the transcendental sky, the spiritual sky to the material sky." That is called avatāra. Avataraṇa. Avataraṇa. Just like... Avataraṇa means "coming from up to down." That is called avatārana. And avatāra is understood that when God or His bona fide representative comes from that sky to this material plane, that is called avatāra.



So this sound, this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, is the sound representation of the Supreme Lord. The sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. The whole thing, either material or spiritual, whatever we have got experience, nothing is separated from the Supreme Absolute Truth. Nothing is separated. Everything has emanated from the Absolute Truth. (aside:) Come on. Sit down. But just like... The example... Just like earth. Earth, then from earth, you have got wood, fuel. From fuel, when you get fire, first of all there is smoke. Then, after smoke, there is fire. And the fire, from fire, you can take work. Now, beginning from earth, from earth there is wood; from wood there is smoke; from smoke there is fire. There is a link between the fire and the earth. But the work of the fire, the benefit of the fire, can be had at the last stage, when there is real ignition of fire. Similarly, there is link. The whole material cosmic situation, manifestation, what we see, it is just like the smoke. The fire is behind it. That is spiritual sky. But still, in the smoke, you can feel some heat also. So similarly, this sound vibration of the spiritual world is here so that even in this material world, where there is a scarcity of that spiritual fire, we can appreciate, we can feel, the warmth of that fire.

*So this is the meaning of, in a nutshell, meaning of this, I mean to say, spiritual vibration. And grammatical meaning is these, all these words, sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, sixteen... Now, according to grammatical rules, when somebody is addressed... Just like in your English language it is, note of address is, "O Mr. such and such," similarly, in grammar, Sanskrit grammar, the same note of address, which is called sambodhana, that is expressed in this way. So Hare, Hare is the note of address form of the sound Harā. Harā. Harā means the potency of the Supreme Lord, potency. The Supreme Lord is represented everywhere by His potency. There is a nice verse in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. It is said like that: Just like a fire, the fire situated in one place, it distributes its heat and light. Just like... Take the example for the sun. The sun is located at a certain fixed*-up place. That we can see. But the heat of the sun and the light of the sun is distributed all over the universe. Ekadeśa-sthitasyāgneḥ. Ah, yes. The verse is like...

*eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

tathā sarvam akhilaṁ jagat

brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ brahmaṇaḥ



Akhilaṁ jagat. In this world, whatever you are seeing, it is nothing but distribution of the energy of the Supreme Lord. Just like you can feel the light and the heat of the sun. This light and heat of the sun are different energies of the sun. The energy and the energetic, the thing from which the energy is generated and the energy, they are nondifferent. The sunshine or the sun heat is not different from the sun. Because there is heat in the sun, therefore we feel the heat of sunshine. And there is light in the sun, therefore we see the sunshine. So this sunshine and sun heat is not different from the sun as it is. But still it is different. Still it is different. You cannot say that "Because I am feeling the heat of the sun, therefore I have approached sun." No. Sun is far, far away from you. And because the sunshine has entered your room, you cannot say that "Sun has entered my room." No. Still, sunshine and sun heat is not different from the sun.



*Similarly, the whole creation, anything... Generally there are three things: the potent, God, and His three energies. This is the sum total: internal energy, external energy, and marginal energy. External energy is this material manifestation. Just like this body is my external energy. I am soul, so my external energy is this body. Similarly, I have got my internal energy. That is my consciousness. Consciousness is my internal energy, and this body and the mind and this material demonstration, or manifestation, is my external energy. The body has developed, the mind has developed, from me, soul, not that I, consciousness, is developed from this body. No. That is a wrong conception. That is a wrong conception. You cannot develop consciousness from this body. Otherwise a dead man could have been again revived to consciousness. Because if matter is the cause of consciousness, then the whole matter is there already. Whole matter. The dead body means, so far material substance is concerned, everything is there, present. Nothing has disappeared. If you say there is no blood*-oḥ, that is not very difficult thing, blood, a red substance. Do you mean to say something red injected within this body will bring back the life? No. If redness is the cause of life or consciousness, then modern chemical can make immediately by chemical combination the whole thing red. Or take example: there are many natural stones, they are by nature red. If you say that "This artificial redness cannot give life; *the natural redness is the cause of life," then you take the stone. It has got natural redness, but there is no life. But there is no life. So redness is also not the cause of consciousness of life. That is a wrong theory. That is a complete... Consciousness is completely different thing, qualitatively different. Nothing is different from one to another, just like I have explained already that the earth, wood, then smoke, then fire*-everything is linked up, but everything is also different from one another.

*So the whole thing... The Supreme Lord is represented throughout everything, whatever you see, matter or spirit or anything, physical, chemical*-whatever you can give name-there are so many things. But they are not separated from God. God is linked up in everywhere. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Just like our Bhagavad-gītā, we have begun that yena sarvam idaṁ tatam: "That thing which is present all over the body, that you are." So this is individual consciousness: "I am present all over my body." Similarly, the supreme consciousness, he is present all over the universe, all over. This is only a small manifestation of God's energy, very minute. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find, ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. This jagat... Jagat means this material manifestation. This material manifestation is a one-fourth part demonstration of this whole energy of the Supreme Lord, one-fourth part. So nothing is different from God. But there are certain philosophers, they say, pantheist or monotheist... There are so many theists. They are also be... They believe in the Supreme, but impersonal. But we followers of this Kṛṣṇa philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, we do not follow that philosophy. What is that philosophy? The other sections, they say that "Because God is distributed all over everywhere, therefore there is no separate existence of God." But we do not say that. We say that, the example, that because the sun is distributing his heat and energy, therefore you cannot say that there is no existence of sun. Sun is separately existing. In spite of distributing for millions of years heat, the reservation of heat in the sun is intact. It is not diminished. But everyone knows that for millions and billions of years the sun is distributing heat. Nobody knows the history, how long. Your distributing center, the powerhouse, if you fail to supply coal or oil, then after one hour the whole New York City will be dark. So just you can imagine who is supplying the fuel in the heat of the sun so that for millions and billions of years the heat of the sun is in the same temperature. So this is only one of the creation of the God, God's creation. But just imagine. If God's creation is so unlimited and so much energetic, then how much energetic and how much powerful is the creator? That is to be... These things are to be thought. In everything, everything, we can have God consciousness. If this watch is so wonderful workmanship and we are struck with wonder how nicely it is giving time, how the machine is adjusted, now, before appreciating this watch, how much we have to appreciate the person who has discovered this watch, how much brain he has got? Before appreciating a powerful brain in this world, one should appreciate who has given him this powerful brain. If the man has attained that powerful brain out of his own accord, then great powerful brain like Professor Einstein, Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose, they could create another brain like them so that in their absence there would not have been scarcity of scientist and powerful brain. But they could not do that. Therefore they are not creator of the powerful brain. The powerful brain is gift of the supreme powerful brain.

So in every respect, if we think... This is called philosophy. If we have got thoughtful propensities, if we can little think over every matter, you will find that God is present everywhere, and still, He is personally present in His own place. The same example: the sun is present everywhere by heat and light; *still, sun, the sun, has its own location. That you cannot deny. Similarly, God is present everywhere. Not only everywhere... We learn from Brahma*-saṁhitā,

*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac*-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antam

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.35]



*This Govinda, anādir ādir govindaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So the prayer is, "I worship that Govinda," sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam, kāraṇa, "who is the cause of all causes." Cause of all causes. Now, in this verse of Brahma-saṁhitā we find that one of His plenary portion... In the Vedic hymns we find that God has become many. Eko bahu śyām. God is one without second, but He has become Himself many. We are also God. Out of that many, we are one. We are one. We are not separate from God. So, but there are amongst the "many"s there is a difference of potency, difference of potencies. Just like what you can do, I cannot do. Your workmanship may not be equal with my workmanship. Your brain work may not be equal to my brain work. There are differences. Each and every living entity, they are different from each other so far individual capacities are concerned. So in spite of many... That is God's creation. In spite of many, each and every thing, you will find there is some difference. You can sit down at a place in New York and go on counting and seeing all people passing before you*-you won't find one man is exactly like the other man. Not only that, in court, you know, every one of you know, that they take impression of the left hand thumb impression. Now, this thumb impression... You go on taking millions and millions of thumb impression, and you won't find one thumb impression is exactly like the other. And because there is difference of thumb impression, therefore the identity is taken in that way, that "This particular man's thumb impression, even if he denies his signature, the thumb impression will corroborate that his signature is this." So that is God's creation.



*Similarly, there are two kinds of expansions of the Lord. One kind of expansion is called Viṣṇu*-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva means the expansion, they are as equal as the God Himself. And there are expansions which are called the jīva-tattva, the living entities. This expansion of the living entities, they are not equally powerful, but the expansion of Viṣṇu-tattva is equally powerful, as good as God Himself. So the incarnation... Incarnation of God means the expansion which is as good as God Himself. That is called incarnation. So this, I mean to, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, is the expansion, incarnation, sound incarnation, of God. It is expansion and a plenary expansion, sound, sound representation... Not representation. God, present Himself in this form of sound. Because we cannot see God with our present eyes, present eyes, because this is not our proper eyes. They are material eyes. You don't think that this eye, the transparent thing which is floating in this, I mean to say, hole... That is not seeing. Similarly, if you can present, or if you take this eye... You cannot see. That cannot see. It is simply a lens only. It is only lens. So none of this body, bodily part, is actually the thing which is taking part. So therefore with these eyes, with these material eyes, you cannot see. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. The present senses, the present senses cannot have any knowledge of the Supreme God. But how then we can have knowledge? If my senses are unfit, then how can I make it fit? Oh, that is the thing. That is the thing, that you have to spiritualize, spiritualize these material sense, I mean to say, organs. And then, when you spiritualize, then you can have the spiritual vision and see God and yourself. The same example which I have recited many times: just like the iron rod. Iron rod, you put into the fire. It gets warm-warm, warmer, warmer. And when it is red hot, then it is no longer iron. Iron it is, but it does not act as iron, but it acts as fire. That iron rod which is red hot in association with fire, you can take that rod and touch anything; it will burn. That means it is no longer acting as iron; it is acting as fire. Similarly, if you associate with this transcendental incarnation, sound incarnation of God, then you will be gradually godly. You will be godly. You can become godly with God's association, not by any other material, extraneous things. No. Just like you can have fire only in association with fire, not with water. If you want to get yourself warm, then you have to associate with fire, not with water, not with air. Similarly, if you want to spiritualize your vision, if you want to spiritualize your action, if you want to spiritualize the whole constitution of your existence, then you have to associate with the supreme spirit. And that supreme spirit is very kind because He is everything. That we have already explained. Everything is interrelated with the Supreme; therefore He is interrelated with sound also. So by God's inconceivable potency, He can present before yourself in sound incarnation. That is His potency. That is His potency. He can do that. And therefore this name, Kṛṣṇa, and the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference.

*So our, this sound representation of the Supreme Lord constantly will make us... Just like our association with the fire, the, I mean to say, iron rod's association with the fire makes the rod equally qualified, exactly*-not equally qualified, but almost the quality of burning it gets-similarly, by our constant association with Lord... Lord is not only incarnation in a sound form. He is incarnated in many other forms, in many other forms. Just like arca. Arca means the form of the Lord situated, I mean to say, established in some temple and worshiped. That is also incarnation of God. That is not idol worship. People do not know that this is an authorized process of realizing God, or they have never tasted or practiced it. They cannot understand. They say it is idol worship. No. It is not idol worship. It is not idol worship. I'll give you one example. Just like in the front of your door there is a box-"U.S. Mail," it is written. And you put your letters within that box, and after few days you get reply from your friend that "I have received your letter, and this is such and such, such and such." Now, if somebody puts another box like that, exactly imitation: "Then why shall I spend postage to putting letters in this box, U.S. Mail? I require postage. But then why shall I not put up a box like that? Let me prepare a box like that so that it can go without postage. I want to save postage." Now, he is going on, putting letters in that without postage. And after sometimes he sees all the letters are lying there; *it has not been dispatched-because it is imitation. And the box which is supplied by the post office, that is authorized. In the matter, in material, you will find this box and that imitation box is the same thing. So this is a science. You see. Although we find that "This form of the Lord... The Hindus, they have established one statue in the temple, and they are worshiping as the Lord? How is that? Is it Lord is a stone? It is wood?" But he does not know that because it is authorized, because it is authorizedly worshiped, therefore even it is stone or wood, it can act. It can act. Just like the authorized post office, although seemingly it is a box which I can prepare, but it is acting because it is authorized, similarly, the authorized, authorized symbol or representation of God is also God. He's not different from God. Then why God is like that? It is His mercy. Because I cannot see God with my these eyes*-I can see stone and wood and material things-therefore God is kind enough (to appear) in a form suitable to my seeing and accept my service. It is His kindness. And besides that, if everything is God, because everything has link with the God, with the Supreme Truth, then God, being omnipotent, why He cannot represent Himself in everything? If everything is God, everything is emanation of God, then God has got the power to manifest Himself in everything. That is His omnipotency. So these are consideration.

So the explanation of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is addressing, addressing the Supreme Lord through the energy, Hara. Hara is the energy, internal energy. Just like when there is... Of course, in your country there is no sun worship, but in India there are persons who are sun worshipers. So they worship sun with so many things. And there is a lamp also. Now, this lamp is a light, but it is being offered for satisfying the sun. Now, sun is so lightful, this light is merely insignificant before the sunlight. But still, because I have no other means, I am getting a sunlight, imitation of that light, and offering, and that offering is accepted. So these are spiritual conception. When we gradually make our progressive advancement, these things will be realized. But for the present we can take this instruction from authorized scripture that,

*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



The God's name, God's form, God's quality, God's paraphernalia, God's entourage, like that, and anything in relation to God cannot be realized with our present senses. But when we are in service attitude, then God is so merciful, He is so pleased, that our tiny efforts to realize Him attracts Him, and He becomes manifested gradually as we make our progress in spiritual service or devotional service.



So this method, chanting, chanting of the transcendental name of the Supreme Lord, is a part of devotional service. There are nine kinds of devotional services, of which

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sākhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



These are different, nine processes. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Śravaṇam means hearing, and kīrtanam means chanting, chanting. So by this process... Just like I chant and you hear, and you chant and I hear. Parasparam. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam. This is the factual activities of devotion in devotional society. This bodhayantaḥ parasparam: I chant, you hear, and you chant, I hear. So by this process, the transcendental name, the sound incarnation of the Supreme Lord, becomes manifest, manifest so that we can realize God simply by chanting and hearing. Simply by chanting and hearing that will be realized. Of course, there are some rules and regulations for chanting, but in the beginning we haven't got to observe those rules and regulation at the present. First of all let us have the taste for chanting; then we shall be little careful that the rules and regulations are followed. In the beginning, if we stick up to the... Rules and regulations are subordinate, subordinate thing. Just like you enter into an office. You are appointed in some office to work. So on the very day, you do not know all the rules and regulations. But because you do not know all the rules and regulation, that does not mean that you cannot be appointed. First of all let yourself be appointed. Now, working, working, yourself you will know that rules and regulations: "This is the rules, and this is the regulation." Just like in my life, I will say one instance. When I met my spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, so as a gentleman meets as a gentleman, so he was sitting in a couch like that. So, and I also sat down on that very couch. So I did not know that what are the rules and regulations. Now, when I saw that his other disciples are coming, and they are sitting down, (laughs) so I thought myself, "Oh, I have done this wrong. I should not have sat with His Divine Grace." So of course, I did not get down immediately, but I took it, and from next day I did not sit. So rules and regulations automatically was taught. So that rules and regulations is not very important. The important is... The thing is that we must take up. The first rules and regulation is that we must have some attachment for this. Attachment for this. Then, automatically, rules and regulation we shall learn. There will be no difficulty.



*So this transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, you don't think that I have come here*-it is my personal manufacture. No. It is not. No. It is not my personal manufacture. It is authorized just like the post box is authorized, because all previous ācāryas, all previous authorized persons in this line, they have done it. Just like see Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is chanting and dancing, chanting and dancing, you see, the same thing. This picture is before you so that gradually, when you feel ecstasy, you will also dance like Him. And when you automatically dance, then you will know that the thing is already realized. Not artificially, but when you feel, "Oh, let me dance. It is so much ecstatic. Let me dance." Nothing should be done artificially. Let everything come automatically. And only we have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. This is a verse from scripture, that tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ, if you simply go on arguing about spiritual matters-"This is not, this is not, this is not, yes, this is not..." I say something; *you say something. No, no, no. You cannot realize spiritual objects simply by this speculation, argument. Our argument or logical, I mean to say, strength has no access in the spiritual world. The Vedic mantra says, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena: "Atma, the supreme self, cannot be realized pravacanena." Suppose I am very expert speaker, I can present things very nicely*-but without any substance. Oh, that won't help you. Simply by jugglery of words, if I can captivate you, oh, that won't help you. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena. This is pravacana.

*Of course, we are delivering speeches from authoritative book, Bhagavad*-gītā. I am not speaking before you of my own imagination. I am speaking from the authorized book. Therefore it is not exactly pravacana, neither I am squeezing out some meaning for my purpose. I am just presenting you the same principle. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. As Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached, I am trying to present the same thing before you in a different language only. That's all. Because in India He preached in Sanskrit. He was a very learned scholar in Sanskrit. Formerly, any big man, any big scholar, they would be big scholar in Sanskrit. Sanskrit was the written language. Even in the beginning of the British period, Sanskrit was written language. It is the policy of Lord McCauley that he transformed the whole attitude. They made a plan that "If Indians remain as Indian, then we cannot rule over. Then we cannot rule over. We must make them Anglicized." So that policy was followed for two hundred years, so India has lost its original culture. So therefore the original point is that tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. We cannot realize the Supreme Truth simply by argument or logical presentation or philosophical speculation. No. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Śrutayo means scriptures. Now say, for example, Bhagavad-gītā and your Bible and the Muhammadans, they'll present Koran. So of course, this Bhagavad-gītā is little different from Vedic scripture. That we have already explained. It is an independent something, universal. So Vedic scripture, Koran, Bible, or Zoroastrian... There are so many religions, Buddhist religion, so many. So there may be some difference of opinion. Śrutayor vibhinnā. Vibhinnā means different. Now, you cannot realize the Absolute Truth simply by your mundane arguments and by your logical strength, neither you can catch up the right thing by reading different scriptures. Śrutayor vibhinnā. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And if you follow great philosophers, great thinkers, then also you will find one thinker is different from another thinker, one philosopher is differing from another philosopher. So whom to follow? This philosopher says that God is a person; another philosopher says God is imperson; another philosopher says that God is everywhere and there is no separate existence of God. So many philosophies there are in the world. And one person is not actually philosopher if he does not differ from other philosophers. That is the philosophical basic principle. You are a philosopher. If I cannot make your philosophical conclusion null and void and make my philosophy established, then I am not a philosopher. You see? That is the way, going on. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "He is not a philosopher if he cannot present a separate theory." He is not a philosopher.

Then how to catch up the Absolute Truth? What is the way? Now, dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām: "Therefore the Absolute Truth is concealed within your heart." Nihitaṁ guhāyām. Now, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: [Cc. Madhya 17.186] "You just try to follow the great personalities, what they are doing, what they are doing." Now, about this mahājana, there is also difference of opinion who is mahājana. But so far our Vedic culture is concerned, there are specific mention, mahājana. And so far Lord Kṛṣṇa is concerned, so there is no two opinions about His authority throughout the whole world. And so far we are concerned, Hindus, or the followers of the Vedic religion, there is no difference of opinion so far Kṛṣṇa's authority is concerned. There are five authorities, recognized authorities, in India so far this is..., spiritual life is concerned. One of them is Śrī Rāmānujācārya and other is Śaṅkarācārya. The other is Madhvācārya, other is Viṣṇu Svāmī, and other Nimbārka, Nimbāditya (?). Principal. The whole, I mean, some of them flourished, say, two thousand years before; some of them 1,500 years before; *some of them eleven hundred years before. Just like there are different ages, they have come. But all of them, in spite of their coming in different ages, they all are in one opinion*-kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Just like we have cited, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: "The supreme controller, the Supreme Lord, is Kṛṣṇa." Now, we can see from His presentation of this Bhagavad-gītā how supreme He is. He spoke this truth five thousand years before, and continually, for five thousand years, all scholars are studying this scripture, and studying very devotedly to understand it. You know our present president in India, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He is a renowned scholar of the world, Dr. Radhakrishnan. When he came to your country, your president, late Mr. Kennedy, oh, he welcomed him as his own teacher, because when Mr. Kennedy was a student in the Oxford University, Dr. Radhakrishnan was a visiting professor. In the open meeting Mr. Kennedy admitted that "Now Dr. Radhakrishnan has come as the president, but he is always my teacher. He is still my teacher." It was very kind of him that he received him as a teacher, not as contemporary. So even that Dr. Radhakrishnan, he is also studying this Bhagavad-gītā very, I mean to say, profoundly. You know your Professor Einstein. Oh, he was a profound, I mean to say, student of this Bhagavad-gītā. Hitler was a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. So many, in all the countries. There are so many Muhammadans in India, oh, they are devout student of Bhagavad-gītā. I know one Dr. Inrai(?) of Allahabad University. Oh, he is so devoted to Lord Kṛṣṇa that on the birthday of Lord Kṛṣṇa he must write one nice article and publish in the paper. So this instruction, that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ... [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We cannot have the knowledge of the Absolute Truth simply by argument or simply by philosophy or simply by big brain or speaking power. No, no. All these things will not do. Simply we have to follow the great authority.

So Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, He introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare for this age. And He recommended, kalau... Not recommended by His own brain, but it is recommended in the scriptures:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



If you want to realize the Supreme Truth, then you must realize this: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, whenever you get... Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam: "Only this." And if you think, "Oh, only this? Why not other?" No. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Nāsty eva means "There is no alternative." And He repeats this: "no alternative, no alternative, no alternative," three times. Three times. That means He is giving too much stress. So our process is like that, that we are following a great personality, Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He introduced from the scripture, not in His own way. Nothing should be accepted which is not recognized. You see? So this is recognized method. Now it depends on us. Let us follow this process and see how we are making progress in the spiritual path. You see?



Thank you very much. Now, if there is any question, you can raise. (end)



680202LE.LA

Lecture

-

Los Angeles, February 2, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



This verse was composed by Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. You know Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya? You have not heard?



Devotees: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Who was he? Who was Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya?



Nandarāṇī: He was a great impersonalist who was converted by Lord Caitanya to Vaiṣṇavism.



Prabhupāda: Yes. And Nandarāṇī knows better than you. (laughter) So girls are intelligent. Yes. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was a great impersonalist and a great logician. The impersonalist school, amongst them, there are very, very learned scholars. Śaṅkarācārya himself, he was unique scholar. At the age of eight years only, he studied all the *Vedas*. And not only he studied, he became a critical student, Śaṅkarācārya. He was incarnation of Lord Śiva; therefore nobody can be compared with him.



*So amongst the impersonalist school, there are many great logicians and high class scholars. But according to Vedic principles, God realization does not depend on material intelligence or scholarship. It is stated in the Vedas, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyaḥ: "You cannot realize the self simply by arguments or very scholarly speeches." No. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na bahunā śrutena: "Neither by studying many, many different types of Vedic literatures." Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na bahunā śrutena na medhayā: "Neither by sharp brain or memory." These are good qualifications*-to be scholarly, to be a very good speaker, and to have very good memorizing power. These are materially very good qualifications. But they are not qualification for realizing God. Then what is the qualification of realizing God? Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute tena labhyaḥ: "God can be realized only to whom He reveals-labhyaḥ Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.23." You cannot oblige God to become manifest before you because you are very good scholar or you are a very rich man or you are very good looking or you have got very good memorizing power. No. Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute. When He is pleased, then He reveals unto the devotee. Therefore our business should be, for God realization, to please Him. And that pleasing process is this devotional service. Let us engage in His service, and when He becomes pleased, "Yes. He's very sincerely..." Just like the gopīs. They were village girls, not even born of very high family. Cowherds, ordinary agriculturists, cowherds men. So their daughters. So how much education you can...? There was no education practically. In the village even men... In India still, they are ninety-percent illiterate. And what to speak of the girls, the men are not even literate. Because according to Vedic civilization it was not necessary that everyone should go to school. There was no necessity. Because things were being learned by śruti, by aural reception. Knowledge from the perfect man, one would hear, and he would become learned. There was no necessity of, I mean to say, learning ABCD. No. Even in Vedic age, everything was memorized. There was nothing in writing. People were so sharp in brain that once heard from the spiritual master, they will never forget. The brahmacārī system made their brain so powerful that whatever they will hear from the spiritual master, they will keep in the brain and never forget. They will repeat verbatim. Smṛti. It is called retaining power.

*So God realization does not depend on material opulence. Material opulence means to take birth in high family, janma. Janma means high parentage. Then... Janmaiśvarya, and wealthy, great riches. These are material opulences: high parentage, great riches, and great learning, and great beauty. These four things are material opulences. Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. Janma means birth, aiśvarya means wealth, and śruta means education, and śrī means beauty. So for God realization these things are not essential, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can utilize everything. So nothing is neglected. That is another point. But if somebody thinks that "I have got all these opulences; *therefore God realization is very easy for me," no, that is not. So God realization depends on God, because God, you cannot oblige God by some force. Just like if you have got money, oh, you can do anything nowadays. If you have got strength of wealth, you can have any power, you can do anything. But that does not mean that you can purchase God. No. That is not possible. If you have got beauty, you can conquer over very stalwart, very strong men. Just like what is the... Cleopatra. You have heard the Grecian history. She was very beautiful, and she conquered many great warriors. So beauty sometimes can conquer even the greatest man, but that does not mean beauty can conquer God. No. That is not possible. So the vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. To conquer God is bhakti. If you are advanced in devotional service, then you can conquer God. Just like the gopīs, as I was speaking, their parentage was not very high, not at all high. Village, agriculturists, farmers, no education, practical... No education at all. And they were not rich at all. Agriculturists, farmers, they are not very rich. So how they conquered Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa was just a play toy in their hands. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī. They conquered Kṛṣṇa simply by devotional service. That's all. They did not know anything except Kṛṣṇa. They did not, I mean to say, care anything. Simply they were..., always they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa. The one instance of their absorption in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is explained, that when Kṛṣṇa was going on the pasturing ground, the gopīs were crying at home. Why? They were thinking that "Kṛṣṇa's body is so delicate, so soft, that we, when we take His lotus feet and place on our breast or chest, we think it is hard, very hard for Him. So Kṛṣṇa is walking in the forest. There are so many particles of stones. They are pricking, and how much Kṛṣṇa is feeling pain." This thinking made, caused their crying, "How Kṛṣṇa is feeling pain." And the whole day, they will think of Kṛṣṇa like that, and when Kṛṣṇa will come back from the pasturing ground, then they will be relieved that "Kṛṣṇa has now come back." This was their business. Now, this sort of thinking of Kṛṣṇa does not require any riches or any high parentage or any beauty or any education. So we have to develop such Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our, this Gauḍīya-sampradāya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's descendants, our line of God realization is that separation, feeling of separation. Not that we have got Kṛṣṇa within our hand. No. The feeling of separation, worship of Kṛṣṇa by feeling of separation is better than the worship by directly meeting. Vipralambha-sevā.

*So this vairāgya*-vidyā, renunciation... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā means no more attachment for this material world. That is vairāgya. So bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā. So this Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya said, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam. This vairāgya-vidyā means bhakti-yogam..., śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa, the supreme original personality, He has come down to teach us this vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya. Śrī Kṛṣṇa has appeared in the form of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya says, "My respectful obeisances unto Him." So naturally this context came into my mind-these boys' vairāgya. So one who becomes advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally they become disinterested for any material pompous name.(?) They do not care. So vairāgya. This bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Karandhara: ...Vaiṣṇava earlier.



Prabhupāda: Oh. What is the price of this?



Gargamuni: No charge.



Prabhupāda: No. What do they sell?



Gargamuni: Oh. This drum was broken, but he gave it to us free. I do not know what the...



Prabhupāda: It was, it is broken?



Gargamuni: It was broken, but we fixed it.



*Prabhupāda: Oh. All right. When they give in charity, they give something broken. (laughter) (Bengali) Khana goruke brāhmaṇake dana (?). In India there is a..., charity is given to the brāhmaṇas. So a man saw that his cow is blind. "All right, give it in charity." So charity means... Charity should be the first*-class thing if it is really charity. But nowadays people give in charity just for name. "Oh, I am giving something." This charity... You have read Bhagavad-gītā. There are three kinds of charity: sattvic, rajasic, tamasic. Sattvic, charity in goodness, is with due consideration that "Here should be given the charity." Just like the Vedic injunction is to give charity to the brāhmaṇas. Why? That is the worthy place, to give charity in the hands of brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇava. Real brāhmaṇas. I don't say caste brāhmaṇa. Because they will employ whatever you give them in the service of the Lord. Therefore charity, that is sattvic charity. There is no question of profit or name. But, "Charity should be given here. Here is something, God's service." That is sattvic. And rajasic means for the sake of name. "Oh, people will say I am so charitable." That is rajasic. And tamasic, one who does not know where the money is going... Just like in the Bowery Street some, that drunkard comes and polishes the motorcar, and somebody gives five dollars, and he immediately goes to drink. That means this charity means give him impetus for drinking. So if charity creates such drunkard, oh, that is very dangerous. He has to suffer, the man who is giving in charity. Therefore in charity also there must be consideration. It must be sattvic. So anyway, it has come here. So it is sattvic. Whatever his mind may be, anyway, he has given to this temple; so it is sattvic. Chant. (end)





680402LE.SF

Lecture

-

San Francisco, April 2, 1968



*Prabhupāda: ...consciousness movement was started five hundred years before by Lord Caitanya. This is not a new movement. Practically, it is as old as the creation of this world, but as things change in course of time, so it required rejuvenation. So this movement was rejuvenated about five hundred years ago. Before that, Lord Kṛṣṇa... You might have heard His name. Most of you have read Bhagavad*-gītā, the famous philosophical doctrine of Indian Vedānta philosophy. Lord Kṛṣṇa instructed Bhagavad-gītā in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra five thousand years ago. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means the last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā we find everything complete so far God consciousness is required. The first and foremost qualification to understand the science of God or to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is to understand yourself. The first thing is what you are or what I am. In the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra this perplexed question was there before Arjuna. Arjuna was to fight with his brothers and relatives on the other side to decide who shall be the emperor of the region. So in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, when he actually came in front of his relatives, he decided that "It is no good fighting with my relatives and taking the kingdom. Better I shall beg. I don't want this kingdom." That is a very nice proposal, nonviolence, not to fight. But on this point the Bhagavad-gītā, or the science of God, developed from the lips of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.



*Kṛṣṇa said that "Why you are deviating from your duty? You are kṣatriya. Your business is to fight." Now this term kṣatriya also to be understood. Kṣatriya means one who protects others from being hurt by others. This material world is so made that everyone is prepared to attack another person. And one who protects that person who is attacked, he is called kṣatriya. And the kṣatriyas were in charge of administration. That means the person who can protect the citizen from being hurt or from suffering, they are called kṣatriyas. So just like it is the duty of the police department or law order department to protect the citizens, and sometimes violence is required, similarly, the kṣatriyas also were meant for that purpose, and they were entrusted with the administration of the government. So when Arjuna decided not to fight, Kṛṣṇa instructed him this Bhagavad*-gītā. It is very interesting. He said that "You do not deviate from your duty. Do not think that you are killing your relatives, because you, Me, and all the persons who have assembled in this battlefield, they were existing before, they are existing at the present moment, and they will continue to exist. It is simply changing the dress." That means you, I, or all of us present here, we are all individual spirit souls and we are present here as in different dress. Similarly, we are present here in this world and in any other world with different kinds of bodies. According to Vedic literature there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies. So He gave very nice example. If we study this example with little intelligence, we can understand this doctrine of transmigration of the soul very quickly.

Lord Kṛṣṇa said,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*This is Sanskrit language. I'll explain it in English. He said that within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment, but the soul is there. He is giving example, just as a soul comes from the womb of his mother with a small body, and that small body changes*-it becomes the body of a boy, it becomes the body of a youth, then it becomes the body of an old man, then it vanquishes... That we have to admit. We may say that the body is growing, but actually, the fact is, body is changing. It is medically admitted that we are changing our body every second. We are changing our blood corpuscles, and therefore a change of the body is taking place, and that is being manifested in a different shape only. Actually, we are changing every moment our body. So the ultimate change, when this body cannot be worked any more, just like a dress, when it is torn, when it is too old, you have to change it. Similarly, when this body becomes useless, no more, it cannot be pulled on any more, you take another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. As we are, in our practical life, we are changing our body every moment, similarly, the last stage of changing this body is called death. Death means, according to Vedic literature, sleeping for seven months. Just as I give up this body, I have to enter into the womb of some kind of mother. These things are explained in the Vedic literatures. I am not manufacturing. That karmaṇā dehopapattaye. We are preparing our next life, next body rather... Life is continuing. I am eternal. Next body-according to my present one. Just like in this meeting we have got two hundred ladies and gentlemen, but you cannot find out any lady or any gentleman exactly like the feature of the other. Differences. That means different consciousness, different work, and we have got different body. According to Bhagavad-gītā, the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, but the soul is eternal and permanent. And there are evolutionary process also. There are nine million species of life in the water. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And the trees and plants are two million. Similarly, there are reptiles, birds, then beasts, three million beast life, beastly life. Then at the end, we come to the form of this human being, and there are four hundred thousand species of different kinds of bodies. Just like your body in America and our body in India, there is some difference. Similarly, there are four hundred thousands of human form of life. So this is the process of evolution. And these bodily changes are taking place according to different consciousness. And the highest perfectional consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our life becomes perfect.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just an endeavor to bring people to the original consciousness. The consciousness is... [break] And as we are forming our consciousness, so we are changing our body. If we make our consciousness doggish or hellish, then we get the body of a dog or an animal or something like that. And if we make our consciousness godly, then we make our next life as good as God. This is the process. So we have to... This is the opportunity. The highest intellectual form of human body when every, the senses perception, sense perception, consciousness, everything is perfect*-we have to utilize that for becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that our this process of birth and death can be stopped and we get our eternal body. If we practice this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our next life is as good as Kṛṣṇa, which means that there is no more birth, there is no more death, there is no more disease and no more old age. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that one who is intelligent, he will see four things before him. You may be very great scientist. You may be very much advanced in material science. You may be able to construct very high building, skyscrapers, and many millions of motorcars, but you have to think whether you have solved the real problem of life. The real problem of life is birth, death, disease, and old age. Not that to live in a high skyscraper our problems of life is solved. No. The problem of life is how to stop these four things: birth, death, old age, and disease. But we have neglected the real problems of life. And we are misusing our intelligence for constructing big buildings and constructing or increasing the so-called bodily necessities of life. The bodily necessities of life are four only. What is that? Eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. To maintain this body you require to eat something. Everyone is eating. You are eating, the cats are eating, the dogs are eating, the birds are eating. They have no economic problem. Eating is there already. Have you seen ever that a bird is dying for want of eating, eatables? No. So these things are already arranged. That is no problem. In every form of life your eatables are there by nature's supply. Similarly sleeping. The bird is sleeping, the dog is sleeping, the cat is sleeping, and you are also sleeping. But you have got a very nice apartment. Does it mean that you have solved the problem of sleeping? No. Then defending. The birds, the dogs, the cats, the animals, everyone knows how to defend in their own way. You go every day in the, what is called, Stowe Lake path. And as soon as you go, the swans immediately jump to the water because that is their defending. As soon as they go to the water, they know that "These human beings, they cannot come to the water. We are now secure." So that defending process is there even in the swans, in the birds, in everything. You don't think that because we have manufactured atomic bombs, therefore we have become very good. What is this atomic bomb? Killing. Killing is going on. Have you manufactured anything by which you can save from death?

*So our problems of life, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, is to solve these four things: no more birth... Because we are... Always remember that we are all eternal. Just like in this body, beginning from my mother's womb up to this old age, I am the same eternal soul, but my body is changing. So after changing this body also, I shall remain the same. Simply I shall have another body. This plain truth, there is no difficulty to understand. Now if I am eternal... If I am eternal means no death, no birth, no disease, no old age. That is eternal. So if I am eternal, whether it is possible to get an eternal body? Or eternal happiness? That is the problem of human society. If you can solve that problem, then you be proud of your civilization. Otherwise there is no difference between cats' and dogs' civilization and your civilization. Because you are simply trying to solve the problems of eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But these problems are already solved by nature's law.

*So our developed intelligence should be utilized for solving these problems by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are presenting this movement before you, your country, because you are intelligent, you are materially advanced. You are greater than all other countries. Therefore I present this movement, scientific movement before you. You just try to understand it. Lord Caitanya's movement... This is Lord Caitanya's movement. And the author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta... That is in Sanskrit. We have translated it into English, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. If you like, you can purchase that book. So in that book it is stated that caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. "Ladies and gentlemen, you just..., scrutinizingly you try to understand the mercy of Lord Caitanya, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how it is solving the problems of our life." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. If you scrutinizingly test it and try to understand this movement, then you'll feel yourself that it is wonderful. And actually it is wonderful. So... And the process is also very simple. You do not require to be highly educated or philosopher or talented or rich or poor, or black and white. Doesn't matter what you are. It is universal. Any human being with little intelligence, he can understand. And even he does not understand, this process is so nice that if you continue this process for a few weeks you'll be able to understand. This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is transcendental vibration, sound. Sound is the origin of all creation. So this transcendental sound, if you vibrate, you will understand very quickly this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And there is no loss on your part. Suppose you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; you do not lose anything. But if there is any gain, why don't you try it? We simply request you with folded hands that you kindly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are simply requesting you. We're not asking you to pay us something or to suffer something or be educated or be engineer or be lawyer, then come to us. Never mind what you are. Stay in your position. Simply try to chant these sixteen words, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. You can try for one week. And there is no hard and fast rules. You can chant anywhere and everywhere. While walking you can chant, while driving you can chant. Nobody is going to tax, that "You are chanting. Give me this tax." It is very easy.

*So kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you chant, the result will be that your mind will be cleansed. The whole misunderstanding is that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul. But I am identifying myself with this body-'I am Indian,' 'I am American,' 'I am Christian,' 'I am Hindu.' " These are all your designations. You are spirit soul. Just try to understand that you are spirit soul, and try to understand on the platform of spiritual understanding. All problems will be solved. And so long you are standing on this designated platform-"I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that"-there is no solution of problems. Take it for granted. There is no solution of problem. You stand on this platform of spiritual understanding; there will be solution of all problems. This is authentic, and those who have followed, they have got result. And take it from me that there is no cheating, there is no bluff. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and see the result practically. With my request, you can chant for one week and see the result. We are always prepared to serve you. We have got our temple here. Not only here, we have got our temple in Los Angeles, we have got our temple in New York, in Santa Fe, Montreal, Boston, and recently we're trying to open one temple in Buffalo. And two of my students, they have gone to Florida. They are also trying to open. So it is very nice movement, and it is very easy to chant. Now before me... I am Indian, you are all Americans. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, this vibration may be foreign to you, but there is no difficulty to chant. The words may be in Sanskrit, but it is not difficult to chant. And if you simply chant, you get the result because it is transcendental vibration. Just like when television or radio vibration is there, either in India, America, everywhere the vibration is equally beneficial. Similarly, this transcendental vibration is coming down from the transcendental world. It is not material sound. It is not hackneyed. If you chant, if you practice, you'll realize it. So our request is that without any charges, without any fee, without any bluff, we say that you please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

*Thank you very much. [break] Raghupati rāghava rāja rāma. Can you sing? I'll sing if you can repeat. You can note down. Raghupati rāghava rāja rāma, patita*-pāvana sītā-rāma. Can anyone play in this harmonium melodious?

Devotees: Mālatī. [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...rāghava rāja rāma, patita*-pāvana sītā-rāma. R-a-g-h-u-p-a-t-i. Raghupati. Rāghava, r-a-g-h-a-v-a. Raghupati rāghava rāja, r-a-j-a, rāja, rāma, r-a-m-a. Raghupati rāghava rāja rāma. Patita, p-a-t-i-t-a, pāvana, p-a-v-a-n-a. Patita-pāvana sītā-rāma, s-i-t-a-r-a-m-a. Raghupati rāghava. (end)





680505LE.BOS

Lecture to Technology Students (M.I.T.)

-

Boston, May 5, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*This prayer is offering respectful obeisances to the spiritual master. Why? Because the spiritual master is the person who opens our eyes, complicated in ignorance, with the torch of transcendental knowledge. Timirāndhasya. Every one of us born ignorant, and we require specific education and training for seeing things as they are. Today I am very glad to meet you. You are all students of technology. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also another technology. Unfortunately, in the modern state of civilization there are different department of knowledge. There is department of teaching medical science, there is department of teaching engineering, there is department of educating*-so many other departments of knowledge. Unfortunately, there is no department for distributing knowledge in the science of the soul. But that is the important, most important thing, because the soul is the mainstay, is the background of all our movements.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā there is a nice verse:

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



The idea is that in the present consciousness I am thinking that I am this body, although actually I am not this body. This is ignorance. And body means the senses. I am acting means... Just like I am talking. That means I am using my tongue for vibration. So these bodily activities means sensual activities. But if you go deep into the matter, the senses can only act when the mind is sound. If the mind is not sound, a crazy man or a madman cannot use his senses properly. Therefore higher science. First of all technology of the senses, and then, next higher technology is of the mind, which is known as psychology. Thinking, feeling, willing. They are trying to understand how they are working. And above this mind, mental science, there is the science of intelligence. And above the science of intelligence, the background is the soul. Unfortunately, we have got technology for the bodily senses, we have got technology for psychology, but we have neither any technology for intelligence nor for any technology in the science of the soul. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the technology of the science of soul.



*There is a nice story. You'll appreciate it. In India, especially in Bengal, there are many rivers. The land is full of rivers. Because it is on the bank of the Bay of Bengal, all rivers are falling. Therefore Bengal, the land of, especially the east Bengal, is full of rivers. One student of technology was going home, and he was on the boat. So the student was asking the boatman, "Do you know what are the stars?" The boatman said, "Sir, we are ordinary boatman. What do we know about these stars?" "Oh. Then your fifty percent of life is wasted, useless." Then he was asking, "Do you know what are these trees? Do you know any science of botany?" He said, "Sir, we are ordinary laborer. What do we know about botany?" "Oh. Then seventy*-five percent of your life is useless." In this way the student of technology was asking the boatman, "Do you know this? Do you know that?" And he said that "I am ordinary man. What do I know all these things?" Then all of a sudden there was a black cloud, and there was storm, and the river began to be inflated, and the boatman said, "My dear sir, do you know swimming?" "Oh," he said, "no." Then he said, "Then your cent percent knowledge is spoiled. Now you have to go down to the river. Your life is finished." In this way they dropped in the river, and the technological student, because he did not know how to swim, so the storm and the waves grabbed him.

*The idea is that we are making progress, certainly, in technology, in economics, in so many other departments of human necessities. But Bhagavad*-gītā says that real problem of this world, or real problem of our life, it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. If you are intelligent enough, then you should see the real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. Janma means birth, and mṛtyu means death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā. Jarā means old age, and vyādhi means disease. So actual material problem is this, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. We have forgotten that "In the abdomen of my mother, how precarious condition I was living in." Of course, we can know from the description of medical science or any other science how the child is packed up there and how much suffering is there. The worms bite the child and he cannot express; *he suffers the suffering. Similarly, the mother eats something and the pungent taste also gives him suffering. So these descriptions are there in the śāstras, in the scriptures and authentic Vedic literature, how the child suffers within the abdomen of mother. So these are the sufferings of birth. At least, one child has to remain in that air*-packed condition at least for ten months. Now just imagine if you are put into that air-packed condition for three minutes now, you will immediately die. But actually, we had that experience to remain in the mother's womb in that air-packed condition for ten months. So suffering was there, but because the child was incapable of expressing, therefore... Or his consciousness was not so elevated. He could not cry, but the suffering was there. Similarly, at the time of death there is suffering. Similarly, old man. Just like us, we have got so many complaints, bodily complaints. Because now everything, the anatomical or physiological condition, is deteriorating. The stomach is not digesting foodstuff so nicely as when I was young I could digest. So the sufferings are there. Similarly, disease. Who wants disease? So modern technology, they have advanced undoubtedly, but there is no remedy for, I mean to say, to stop birth, death, old age and disease. This is real problem. But because these problems cannot be solved by the modern scientific advancement of knowledge, they have practically set aside or neglected because they cannot solve it.

*But there is a solution. There is a solution. That solution of this problem is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that,

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*"My dear Arjuna, if somebody comes to Me..." "Me" means here the Supreme Personality of Godhead is saying, Kṛṣṇa. "If somebody comes to Me, then he hasn't got to take birth again in this miserable material condition." Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. We are thinking that we have made a paradise, but actually the place is miserable, because the threefold miseries, they are there. Either in America or in India or in any other country, China, or any other planet, the material miseries which are three kinds, ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika... Ādhyātmika means miseries pertaining to the body and the mind. Sometimes we are feeling headaches, sometimes we are feeling some other pains. Any things which are pertaining to the body and mind, there is some pain. These are called ādhyātmika. Similarly, there are other pains, inflicted by other living entities. They are called ādhibhautika. Similarly, other pains also, which is offered by the nature, by the laws of nature. All of a sudden there is earthquake, all of a sudden there is famine, or similar other which we have no control over. So these three kinds of miseries are always there. But under the spell of illusion we are thinking that we are happy. And the illusion means that the material energy is so illusory that however a living entity may be in abominable condition, he thinks that he is happy. You take any animal, just like take the hog-that life is most filthy life. Of course, you have no experience to see in your city, hogs. In India there are many hogs in the city, and they are living in filthy place*-they are eating stool, and most abominable life. But even you ask a hog that "You are living in such abominable condition. Let me do you something good," he'll refuse to accept. If you give him something, nice preparation, as we have got in India, halavā, he'll not accept it. He will accept stool, because his body is meant for that purpose and he will not like any palatable foodstuff. He will like that stool. This is the spell of māyā.



*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that if we want, if we are actually educated, then we must try to question that "Why I am suffering?" This is called brahma*-jijñāsā. In the Vedānta-sūtra the first aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should inquire about his existence as soul, not as body or as mind. Because he is neither body nor mind. So this Vedānta-sūtra says that athāto brahma jijñāsā. Atha ataḥ means this is the time, this human form of life, developed consciousness, with greater intelligence than the animals, one should inquire about his spiritual existence. That is real technology. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one does not inquire about his spiritual existence... Every one of us is born ignorant because we do not know what is our real identity. Generally, we accept that "I am this body," but actually I am not this body. These things can be understood very easily. Suppose you are seeing all along a friend. All of a sudden he dies and you say, "My friend is gone." Well, your friend is lying there with all the body, hands, legs, everything. He's lying there. Why do you say that your friend is gone? Then you have never seen your friend. You have seen only his bodily structure. That's all. Similarly, at the present moment the humanitarian work is going on, but we do not know what is the basic principle of humanitarian work. The Bhāgavata answers this: yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. A person who is in the knowledge that "I am this body and...," sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and if one thinks that "In relations with this body, my kinsmen, they will protect me," and if he thinks that "The land where the body is grown, that is the worshipable land," then he is, I mean to say, accepted like animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].

*So these instructions are there. Unfortunately, we have no time, neither we have desire to understand actually what I am, why I am suffering, what is this world, what is my relationship with this world, what is God, what is my relationship with God. These questions are very important questions, and there is technology to understand these questions. And the Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedānta-sūtra, all these literatures are there. If you kindly, of course, see to these literatures, you'll find the solution of the problems of life. But we are not interested. That is the difficulty. We are thinking that we are happy, we have no problem, although there are so many problems and we are not happy. This is called māyā. Māyā means what is not. Mā means not. Yā means this. This is called māyā. We are thinking that we are happy, but actually we are not happy. And even if we are happy, how long we are happy? Suppose, taking for example you Americans, you are the richest nation of the world. Your material comforts and everything is greater than other countries, standard of living. But just try to think how long you can remain as American. Say, for fifty years or hundred years, at most. Then... But we do not know what is going to happen in my next life because we do not believe in the next life. But actually there is next life. So if you don't take care of my next life and if we irresponsibly waste our valuable human form of life like ordinary animals... The ordinary animals, they demand something for eating, they want to sleep, they want to defend, and they want to mate. So similarly, if human being is also busy with the four principles of bodily demands, namely eating, sleeping, mating and defending, then, according to Vedic literature, it is said that he is not human being. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If the human being does not understand his real spiritual identity and simply busy with the four demands of bodily necessities, then paśubhiḥ samānāḥ-he's as equal as with lower animals, cats and dogs.

*So Bhagavad*-gītā gives you clue. It is not very difficult to understand this science. The Bhagavad-gītā gives you the information of the spirit soul very simply. The Bhagavad-gītā says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Just like within this body, when you were a child you were within this body*-not exactly this body, but another body, which was so small. Now where is that body? That body is gone. You have got another body. So Bhagavad-gītā says, as we are changing body moment to moment, dehino 'smin yathā dehe... [Bg. 2.13]. Dehinaḥ means the soul, the spirit soul, who is embodied within this body, as he is changing body from moment to moment. This is a fact, a medical fact, that you are changing body every moment. Similarly, the last change is called death. But we have to take..., we have to accept another body. But we do not know what sort of body we are going to accept. That technology is wanting in the modern civilization. But there are 8,400,000's of different bodies, and after leaving this body you may enter any of such bodies. You may become, after leaving this body, you can become American or you can become Indian or you can become Chinaman or you can become god in the moon planet or some other planet, or you can become dog, you can become hog, you can become serpent-anything. That requires... That is under the control of the material nature. That is not under your control. But if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will be under your control. How it is possible? The Bhagavad-gītā answers this:



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*If you want to enter into another planet, say moon planet or sun planet or Venus planet... There are innumerable planets. The ultimate, highest planet is called Brahmaloka. And the advantage of going to Brahmaloka is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that you can get a life, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. You can get there life for millions and millions of years. But still, there is death and there is birth and there is that old age and there is that disease. But mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. But if somebody is transferred to that planet which is called Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana, or Vaikuṇṭha, then one hasn't got to come back to this material, I mean to say, temporary existence. So these informations are there, and they are very scientific. They are not dogmatic. If you accept them with reason and argument and with human consciousness, the solutions are there.



*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the movement. It is not new movement. This movement is at least, current, since five hundred years before. Lord Caitanya, He started this movement in the fifteenth century. So this movement is current everywhere in India, but in your country, of course, it is new. But our request is that you kindly take this movement little seriously. We do not ask you to stop your technological advance. You do it. There is a nice proverb in Bengal that a woman who is busy in household work is also..., she also takes care for dressing herself nicely. It is the nature of women. When they go out they dress very nicely. So similarly, you may be busy with all kinds of technology. That, that is not forbidden. But at the same time, you try to understand this technology, the science of soul. That is there. It is not a bogus propaganda. It is factual. It is science. As science is not bogus propaganda, similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also not bogus propaganda. As science means two plus two equal to four, similarly Kṛṣṇa consciousness means mitigating the all problems of life. So... And the process is very easy. We are... Not we are. It is recommended by Lord Caitanya that in this age, for self*-realization it is this process:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



Lord Caitanya says that in this age, when our life is very short, we are not very much enlightened in spiritual matters and we are very lazy at the same time, and at the same time we are unfortunate, so under these conditions the people are recommended simply to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam. Now this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, you may say that "This 'Kṛṣṇa' is Indian name or Hindu name. Why shall we chant 'Kṛṣṇa'?" But if you have got any name of God, you can chant that also. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that God has millions and billions of names. So any name is as good as "Kṛṣṇa." It doesn't matter. Then why we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Because we are following the footprints of Lord Caitanya, and He chanted this holy name, we are chanting. So we shall request you most humbly that it is..., there is no loss on your part, but the gain is immense. If you take to this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then gradually your misconception of this life will be cleared off. You will understand your real identity and you will act in that way. And the technology is so nice that you may remain in your business, that doesn't matter. Simply you have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Suppose you are walking on the street. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, nobody is taxing you, nobody is bothering you. But if by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you derive some benefit, why do you neglect it? That is our submission. So this movement is for making solution of the problems of life, and it can be easily done. And anyone can accept it. It doesn't matter whether he is Indian or American or Hindu or Muslim or Christian. It doesn't matter. Simply this vibration: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



So I shall thank you if you join us with this kīrtana and at least for few minutes you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. Any question you can put. Yes?

Student (1): If I understood you, I think you said that this approach, that you feel that it's appropriate to you because people are lax in their approach to spiritual problems.



Prabhupāda: It is not Hindu approach. It is... We are recommending that you chant the holy name of God. Why do you say it is Hindu approach?



Student (1): I didn't. But as I understood you, I thought you said that this was appropriate here because people aren't terribly interested, therefore are lax in spiritual matters, which I feel is true. But if this is true, is there something that would follow? In other words, could you progress to some other form of this more...?



Prabhupāda: There are many other forms, of course, but this form is the easiest, and just suitable for the people of this age. Just like you gather together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can. Actually we are doing that. In your country, wherever I go I chant this, and the American boys and girls, they take part in it in parks, in our class. So there is no difficulty. And this is the easiest. Simply we do not ask that you must be very highly educated, you must be philosopher, you must be expert in breathing exercise or this way or that way. No. We don't require any qualification. Simply come and sit with us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result.



Student (1): Do you imagine in this life an attainment of a follower...?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There are many followers. You can ask how they have changed. We have got many letters. And here there are my students. You can ask directly how they have changed. This is practical. Yes.



*Student (2): I want to make sure I understood*-that chanting this over a long time will also help affect where our body will go after we die, what form we'll come back in?



*Prabhupāda: First thing is by chanting your misconception of life will be cleared. At the present moment I am thinking that "I am this body," and therefore, because my body is born in this land, therefore I am thinking, "I am American." And because I happened to take my birth in a certain family, so I am thinking, "I am Christian" or "Hindu." But all these things are designations. When we clear the misconception of my life, then I can understand that I am pure soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. The Vedic language says that "I am spirit soul." And as soon as you understand, then brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you realize yourself as soul, then you become immediately free from all anxieties, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means jolly. Spiritual life means natural joyful. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Vedānta-sūtra says that spirit is by nature joyful. So because we are spirit, we are always hankering after joyous life. But because our expression is through this material mind and body, it is not being fulfilled. So as soon as you stand on the spiritual platform, you actually stand on the platform of joyous life. That is the immediate gain. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Immediately. Yes?



Student (3): What is the meaning of the sign at your back?



Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of your sign in the neck? What is the meaning of your sign in the neck? Oh, this? I do not know. (laughter) That is not my sign. That is technological sign. (laughter)



Student (4): Your Holiness?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Student (4): Could you estimate how many people in India have found true spirituality through Indian religion?



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by Indian religion?



Student (4): By any of the true religions which are offered in India. Not only yours, but...



*Prabhupāda: You do not know what is Indian religion. The Indian religion is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Have you read Bhagavad-gītā? Then you do not know what is Indian religion. Indian religion is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, there is no greater higher authority than Kṛṣṇa. You can accept it. At least, the Indians, they accept. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said in the beginning that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati: [Bg. 4.7] "Whenever there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging religious principles, I appear." Now, if you accept this religion means the Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion or Buddhist religion, Kṛṣṇa does not propose such religion. He, at the end of Bhagavad-gītā, He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other religious principles. You simply surrender unto Me." So religion, either you take it Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion, religion means to surrender unto God. And the Bhāgavata explains, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is the perfect type of religion which teaches surrendering unto the Supreme Lord. That is religion. Either you take it Hindu religion or Christian religion or Muslim religion or any religion, real religion means surrendering unto God. If there is no surrender unto God, that is no religion.



Student (4): Well, in India how many followers do you feel...



Prabhupāda: Why do you ask for India? I am talking of religious principle. How many of you Christian, you surrender unto God? First answer this. Then you go to India. Anyone, Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. The conception of God is there. If you do not surrender unto God, you have no religion. Yes?



*Student (5): In the Bhagavad*-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa asks Arjuna to go forth in the battle and not to, to slay his relatives and not to be caught in the material world and see that the slayer and the slain are one, should the young American faced with the war in Vietnam go forth to Vietnam realizing that the slayer and the slain are one and that all this slaughter, just slaughter karma, and follow the way of the sage.



*Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad*-gītā, Arjuna, he was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, a friend of Kṛṣṇa. Perhaps you know it. So in the beginning he did not like to fight. He denied. So any devotee of God or Kṛṣṇa is not fond of war or fighting with any others. But if there is necessity, if Kṛṣṇa wants that fight, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa will accept such fight. If you think that your Vietnam fighting is ordered by Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right. If it is not, then it is not. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa says, if God says, "This is right," we accept it right. If God says it is wrong, we accept it wrong. Because we think, we have poor fund of knowledge. We do not know what is right and wrong. Therefore if God says or Kṛṣṇa says this is right, we accept it right. If God says or Kṛṣṇa says it is wrong, we accept it wrong. Yes?



Student (6): In order for one body to perceive another body, you need your eye. You have to look and see the other person and another person... In order for a body to perceive itself, it needs a mirror. But how does one body perceive its soul?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. When you see your body you think that "This is my finger, this is my hand, this is my head, this is my chest, this is my leg." You see simply you will find, "This is my, this is my, this is my." But if you try to find out "Then what is I?" then you will find out. That is called self*-realization. We are simply now engrossed with things "my," but we do not know what is "I." The identification of myself or I with this body is wrong. The identification of I with the mind is also wrong. The identification of I with intelligence is also wrong. When you actually come to the platform of spiritual understanding, then you understand that "I am neither this body, neither the senses, neither this mind, nor intelligence, but I am spirit soul." That is called brahma-jñāna, or Brahman realization. And the symptom will be, as soon as you are actually in self-realization, you will feel happy. You will have no anxiety. That is the test. Just like when you're free from disease, then there is no pain. Similarly, when you actually realize that you are spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then the symptom will be that there will be no anxiety and no lamentation and no bereavement or no so-called, I mean to say, happiness.



Student (7): How can you be sure?



Prabhupāda: Here is the surety. As soon as you see that you're free from all anxiety, then it is sure that you have realized yourself.



Student (7): Well how can you be sure you're free from all anxiety if you're incapable of perceiving happiness? And to perceive happiness, you...



Prabhupāda: Well, you have to follow the process. Then you will feel. Just like if you are diseased, if you have to be under the treatment of the physician and you have to take medicine, and when you're actually free, you will yourself feel, "Yes, I am free." But without going under treatment of an expert physician, or taking the medicine, how you can be free from disease? Yes?



Student (8): I don't understand exactly how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different than the other religions. Like in Christianity, Judaism and Moslem they have the idea that a person can pray and sometimes chant, communicate with God, understand His way. And all religions seem to have this. So I don't see how it's different.



Prabhupāda: There is no difference. I have already explained that we are recommending that you chant the holy name of God. If you have got any holy name of God in your religion, you can chant that. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. Just like you are thirsty, you want water. Somebody may call "water," somebody may call "pani," somebody may call "jala." That doesn't matter. But you want water. Similarly, if you have got any name for calling the Supreme Lord, you call in that name. It doesn't matter. That is our recommendation. When we say, harer nāma. Harer nāma means the holy name of the Supreme Lord. Yes?



*Student (9): There are different techniques for reaching Christ consciousness or God consciousness or self*-realization. What test do you recommend for finding out which technique is the best?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained. That technique is best by which you develop your love of God. That is the test. If by following Christian religion or Muhammadan religion or Hindu religion you actually develop your transcendental love for God, that is the best technique. If you have no love for God, simply you follow the technique, then it is simply laboring. That's all.



Student (9): I mean especially the variations of Indian technique.



*Prabhupāda: I don't say any variation. I say that is the best technique by which you develop love of God. Now you find out what is that best technique. If you find that in your technique you are developing love of God, it is best. We don't say that you accept this technique or that technique. Any technique by which... Just like a man is diseased. Any medicine by which he is cured, that is best medicine for him. Similarly, the criterion is whether you have developed love for God or you are still in love for the matter. That is the test. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. This is the definition of technique in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. That technique is the best form of technique of religious activity by which you can develop your service attitude towards the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The service attitude is there. You are serving. Either you are serving your family or you are serving your body or you are serving your society or serving your country, or if you have no engagement to service, you are serving some dog, you are serving some cat, you are serving some animal. So serving spirit is there, but we do not know where to place our service and become actually benefited by that service. Therefore you have to develop that spirit of service attitude toward the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When you develop that consciousness, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness or whatever technical name you may give. Yes?



Student (10): According to the belief, how many... Is there a fixed number of souls or fixed number of spirits in the universe?



Prabhupāda: No. The souls are innumerable. Asaṅkhyaya. It is stated in the Vedic literature, asaṅkhyaya. You cannot count. Asaṅkhyaya. And in the Upaniṣad it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God is also a living entity. As we are living entity, He is also living entity. But He is the chief living entity. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He's the leader of all living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one Supreme is supplying all the necessities of these many. So living entities... Just like sparks of the fire. The fire is..., big fire is one, but the sparks, there are millions. Similarly, we are all qualitatively one with God. Just like fire and fire sparks. Qualitatively all of them are fire, but the big fire and small fire is different. Similarly, we are also of the same quality as God, but we are very minute and God is great.



Student (4): When some new animal or person is born, is the soul always a reincarnation of some previous soul, or can it be that a new soul has...



Prabhupāda: No. The same soul is changing, just like you are changing your dress. Now you are in some colored dress. You may have some white dress or some red dress. Similarly, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. As soon as your dress is old enough, you cannot use it any more, you have to change the dress. Similarly, the present body, as soon as it is no more workable, you have to accept another body. Now, taking it accepted as dress, that the next body means next dress, so that dress will be offered according to the payment, or according to your work. If you have worked just like a god, then you get the dress of a god, and if you have worked like a dog, then you'll get the dress of a dog.



Student (4): Then how can the dog then become a higher soul, a higher form after the dog?



Prabhupāda: Yes, there is gradual evolution. From dog life, from animal life, again by evolutionary process... That is accepted by anthropo... What is called? Anthropology. That they come to the human being, again there is a chance to get out of this bodily embodiment, and you can get yourself free life in the spiritual world. So if you lose this chance, then you again go to the cycle of birth and death in so many forms of bodies. Therefore we should utilize this enlightened body, the human form of body, the civilized form of life, for our next eternal life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. We should prepare ourself to go to that form of life which has no more birth, death, or disease or old age. Eternal life. Yes.



Student (11): Does it do atheists any good to chant your verses if they only want to be happy through chanting them?



Prabhupāda: Certainly. You may be atheist or theist. The chanting is so powerful, the atheist will be theist. If you are atheist, you can try it. Yes?



Student (12): Is this continual reincarnation only occurring on this earth, or does it occur on other planets?



Prabhupāda: Oh, other planets. All throughout the whole material world.



Student (12): Is there interchange between the planets?



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. You can go in another planet also. Because it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-gā. Sarva-gā means the soul can be transferred to any place. It may be in America, it may be India, in moon planet, sun planet, or any..., anywhere.



Student (13): Has the universe existed forever, or does soul have a beginning?



*Prabhupāda: No. This material universe is created and dissolved. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Just like this body: it is born for some time, it will stay for some time, it will go for some time, then it will become old, and it will vanish. Similarly, the whole universe is like that. It has its creation, it stays for some time, a long duration of time, and it creates so many other things, by*-products, and there will be time when everything will be vanquished.



Student (13): And where were the souls before the universe began?



Prabhupāda: That is called spiritual kingdom. In the spirit.



Student (13): And is that where they will all end up again when the universe comes to an end?



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are not liberated, then you have to come to this material world and change one body after another. That will be your business. But if you get yourself transferred to the spiritual world, then there is no more coming back to this material world, and you get your eternal, blissful life of knowledge.



Student (13): What happens if the universe ends and there are some souls that have not yet transferred themselves to the other universe?



Prabhupāda: The same thing. What happens when your body will be vanquished? Nothing happens. The same thing will go on. There are many bodies, there are many universes. It is coming and going and vanquished. It is the law of nature.



Student (13): Do you mean the universe is likely to go on forever?



Prabhupāda: No. It is created. As your body is created, similarly anything material, it has got a life. It has got a period of creation, it stays for some time, then it is finished.



Devotee: Uh, I think questions...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Very nice. Thank you. Yes. So you can all chant. Come on. (kīrtana) (end)





680508LE.BOS

Lecture at Engagement

-

Boston, May 8, 1968



Prabhupāda: You can speak? You can take this.



*Brahmānanda: My name is Brahmānanda Dāsa Brahmacārī. I'm the president of the New York chapter of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. The International Society for Krishna Consciousness was established in 1966 by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, who had come to this country from Calcutta, India, to preach the science of God realization which is recommended for this age, this age of Kali, this age of disagreement. This process was started by Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago in India. [break] You may want to ask the Swami about Bhagavad*-gītā or transcendental philosophy. Now I present His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.



*Prabhupāda: The primary principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement have been briefly described by my disciple Śrīman Brahmānanda Brahmacārī. It is a very important science of God, understanding what is God. Of course, in every religion this conception of God is there. Simply by understanding "God is great" is not sufficient. We must have knowledge about our relationship with God. Generally, we take it for granted that God is our order*-supplier. We take it that God is great because He... That is also not the conception of the atheist class of men. Those who believe in God, generally they approach God in distress, when they're in need of money, and somebody wants to study what is God out of inquisitiveness, and somebody wants to understand the science of God. There are four classes of men. They are called persons with pious activities on the background. Without pious activities on the background, nobody is interested in the science of God. And those who are unfortunate or impelled by impious activities, they do not believe in God. They never care for God. And this class of men are always known as atheist class of men.



*So, so far atheist class of men, it is very difficult for them to understand. But atheist or theist, it doesn't matter. Everyone is conscious. That is a fact. It doesn't matter whether you believe in God or do not believe in God, but you are conscious. As soon as I pinch in any part of your body, you at once protest. You feel that "Somebody is pinching me. I am feeling pain." This consciousness is there even in the animal or in man and everyone. Now what is this consciousness? The Bhagavad*-gītā replies what is this consciousness. The Bhagavad-gītā says, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That consciousness which is spread all over your body, that is eternal. How it is eternal? That also you can understand by practical experience. Just like in your childhood, there was consciousness. When you were in the womb of your mother, of course, at a certain stage there was consciousness. In your boyhood, there was consciousness. In your youthhood, there is consciousness, and as you make progress, in your old age, there is also consciousness. Now, your body is changing but consciousness is continuing. That you cannot deny. Therefore the Bhagavad-gītā says, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That consciousness is eternal, and that does not vanquish with the destruction of the body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Now as soon as this consciousness is over, the body is called dead body. Now what is this consciousness? This consciousness is the symptom of the soul. That is... Just like in a light, in a fire, there is distribution of heat and light. Similarly, the spirit soul being present in your body, the consciousness is spread all over your body. This is the fact. Now this consciousness is being carried. Just like from your childhood this consciousness is being carried. From childhood body to boyhood body to youthhood body, the consciousness is continuing. Similarly, this consciousness will also carry you in another body, and that transformation or transmigration from one body to another, it is called death. Death means when this body cannot be carried any more, the consciousness has to be transferred to another new body. Just like when your garment is too old, it has to be changed; similarly, when this material body is too old to carry on, then this consciousness is transferred to another body and you begin another life. This is the process of nature.

*But unfortunately, in the modern education system, there is no departmental education about this consciousness or spirit soul, although it is the most important factor. Without consciousness, without the soul's being present, this body is useless. But unfortunately we take care very much for this body, but we have no knowledge of the consciousness or the spirit soul. This is called illusion, ignorance, or māyā. We are very much serious about the nonpermanent things, the body which will not exist, which will be vanquished after certain period of years, but we do not take care of the eternal consciousness, which is changing from one body to another. This is the defect of the modern civilization. And so long we are unaware of the presence of the spirit soul in the body, so long we do not inquire what is the spirit soul, so long our all activities are simply wasting our time. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said that parābhavas tāvad abhodha-jātaḥ. The foolish person or the foolish living entity... Anyone who has accepted this temporary body is understood to be foolish. So every one of us is born foolish because we identify with this temporary body as myself. Therefore we are foolish. Everyone knows that the body does not exist, and still, everyone identifies himself with this body. This is called ignorance, or illusion.

*So the whole world, or the mostly people are hovering in ignorance, and he does not know that he is spirit soul, and he is transmigrating from one body to another. He does not want to die, but the death, cruel death, is enforced upon him. So these problems, they do not consider very seriously, and they are thinking very happy on the principles of animal life. The animal life is based on four principal things: eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. And at the present moment the human civilization is very much proud of advancement of knowledge, but they are concerned with these four principles of life, namely eating, sleeping, defending, and mating. So according to Vedic literature, this way of life is no better than animal life. Human life is meant for advanced knowledge. And what is that advanced knowledge? To know oneself, what I am. In every civilized country, in every civilized form of society, there is some kind of religious principles, either you accept Muhammadanism or Christianism or Jewism or Hinduism or Buddhism. And what is the purpose of the scriptures and religious principles? To understand this consciousness, to understand the spirit soul and how it is fallen into this material conditional life, how they are transforming or transmigrating in different species of life. There are 8,400,000's of species of life, and we are wandering in so many species of life. And this is the opportunity, when we have got this human form of life, to understand "What I am." If we do not understand "What I am," then I am missing the opportunity. If I simply waste my time in the propensities of animal life-the same thing: eating, sleeping, defending, and mating*-and if you do not inquire that "I do not wish to die. Why death is enforced upon me? I do not want to be diseased. Why disease is enforced upon me?" They do not inquire. They simply think, "All right, I am diseased. Let me go to the doctor and have some medicine." But from innermost part of his heart, he doesn't want to be diseased, or doesn't want to be dead. Why? Because he is eternal. His real position is eternal life, blissful life, without any death, without any birth, without any disease.

*So this is the opportunity. This human form of life is the opportunity to achieve that highest perfection of life. If we do not make progress with that vision of life, then we are simply spoiling our, this opportunity of human civilized life. Especially I mean this civilized form of life with developed consciousness, developed education. If you do not take care "What I am? Why I am meeting death? I do not wish to die. Why calamities are enforced upon me?" Nobody wants to meet calamities. In your country, especially I see in every city, the fire brigade, ambulance car is always wandering in the street. That means who wants that his house should be set in fire? Who wants that he should meet an accident? But these things are being enforced, but there is no question that "Why these things are enforced? I do not want this. Why this...?" This is self*-realization. As soon as we become inquisitive that "I do not want all these miserable condition of life. Why they are enforced...?" They are trying to solve these problems by so-called scientific research or so-called philosophical research, but actually the solution is to reform or to purify your consciousness. If you purify your consciousness, as by impure consciousness we are transmigrating from... Now this time, you may be very happy that you have got a very nice body, American body, or you are enjoying life. But do you know what is the next life? That you do not know. Either you do not believe in the next life or you do not know. But you should know that life is continuity. This platform is a flash only. Why there are so many species of life if it is not a flash? You are changing. So these questions are there.

*So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is the movement for purifying consciousness. If you take to this movement, it is very simple. Just like our president, Brahmānanda, explained to you, that it is simply sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Simply to chant these sixteen words. We are simply requesting you to chant these sixteen words. There is no loss on your part, but there is immense gain. Why don't you make an experiment? It is not very difficult. These American boys, they are also chanting. Similarly, although it is written in Sanskrit words symbolically, but it is vibration. It is transcendental vibration. If you take to this vibration, then we become directly in touch with the Supreme Lord. That makes us purified. Just like if you go to the fire you become warm, similarly, if you be directly in touch with the Supreme Spirit, then our purification begins. So if you take to this movement, if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then this impure consciousness will be purified and you will know what you are. Just like Brahmānanda said that it is the process of cleansing the mind, cleansing the mind from all dirty things. And as soon as you are cleansed of all dirty things, then your material anxieties are immediately over. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Brahma*-bhūtaḥ means as soon as you come to the platform of your spiritual understanding, then immediately you get free from all material anxieties. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. You are no more hankering after any profit, neither you are very sorry when there is a great loss. Then you can see everyone on the equal level, and then your relationship or your lost relationship is again established with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then your real life begins.



So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to begin our real life, and to get free from this temporary life, changing from one body to another. So this is very important movement. Try to understand this movement. We have got magazine, Back to Godhead. We have got publication, we have got our branches in several places in your country. We have got here one branch in the 95 Glenville Avenue. So we invite you that you come. You have no expenditure. We simply request you that you come. You try to understand this movement. It is very scientific movement. It is not a bogus, bluffing. You try to understand with all your arguments, reason, logic, and whatever way you want to understand, we are prepared to answer you. So this is for your benefit. It is not an institution to make some profit. It is just to render service to the whole humanity so that they may understand the scientific knowledge of God and be benefited in this human form of life. That is our program(?), and we present this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement before you. Now it depends up to you to accept it or not.

Thank you very much. If there is any question you can... Yes.

Student: How does Kṛṣṇa consciousness relate to Advaita philosophy?



Student: Yeah. Total nonbeing.



Prabhupāda: Advaita philosophy means nondifferent from God. Have you studied Advaita philosophy? Yes. The basic principle of Advaita philosophy is nondifference from God. That is a fact. We are nondifferent from God. Just like the president of your country, he is American; you are also American. So there is no difference so far "American" is concerned. You are nondifferent. But at the same time, you are not the president. Because you are American it does not mean that you are on the equal level with the president. Is it not a fact? Similarly, we are qualitatively one with God. Qualitatively means that whatever you have got as spirit soul, the same thing is also in God. There is no difference in quality. Just like you take a drop of water from the vast Atlantic sea and you chemically analyze the ingredients. The composition of the drop of water is equal to the composition of the vast Atlantic water. Drop of water is equal to the vast mass of water in the Atlantic Ocean. Similarly, you are a spark of the Supreme Spirit Soul. You have got all the chemical qualities or composition as God has. But God is great; you are minute. He is infinite; you are infinitesimal. Qualitatively one, but quantitatively different. So those who are simply accepting the feature of being qualitatively one, they are called Advaitavādis. They are mistaking that quantitatively they cannot be equal. If quantitatively the living entity is equal to God, then why he is fallen in this conditional life of material existence? That means being his constitutional position very infinitesimal, he is prone to be caught up by the influence of māyā. And if you say that you are also the Supreme, then how you are caught by the māyā? Then māyā becomes great; *God is not great. These things are to be considered. So our philosophy, the Vedānta philosophy, acintya*-bhedābheda: we support the philosophy of simultaneously being one and different from God. Simultaneously. We are qualitatively one with God, but quantitatively we are different. That is our philosophy. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. So advaitavāda and dvaitavāda, they are facts. Dvaitavāda means different, and advaitavāda means nondifferent. So we are both nondifferent in quality, different in quantity. That is perfect philosophy. Is that clear to you?



Student: Another question.



Prabhupāda: Well, water is being poured and water is being taken out. That is a fact. From the sea water, water is evaporated, and the cloud..., and the cloud again falls down in water. So that does not mean water is fixed up. Water is not fixed up. That is eternally going on. Water is taken out from the sea, and again it is poured out. So you cannot stop this process. You do not think that because once you have mixed with the sea water, then there is no chance of coming out again. You have to come out. But if you enter within the water and be one of the living entities in the water, then you haven't got to come back. So our philosophy is not to mix with the water. We go deep into the water and become one of the aquatics in the water. Therefore we haven't got to come back again. And if you remain water, then you have to come back. Even you think that "I am mixed with water in the vast sea," that is your false identity. You have to come out. Therefore in the Bhāgavata says that,



*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas

*tvayy asta*-bhāvad aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

*patanty adho 'nādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ

[SB 10.2.32]



It is a very nice verse. It is said that those persons are thinking that they have become liberated by Brahman realization, their thoughts are not yet purified, because after severe austerities they may come to the brink of the water, but being given shelter by the water, he comes back again. So if you don't want to come back again, then you have to enter deep into the water and remain as one of the living creatures in the water. That is the philosophy of Vaiṣṇava philosophy, that we want to enter into the spiritual kingdom and we want to live in our spiritual identity. Not superficially simply we mix with water and again evaporate, again come back. So advaita philosophy, the example which you have given, they generally give this example, but any sane man can understand that by mixing superficially with the water there is no solution. There is chance of coming out again, being evaporated. If you take that example, you have to accept this also. How you can say that you are not coming back? It is a fact. So if you don't want to come back again, you go deep into the water and live as one of the living entities under the shelter of the water. They have no problem. They do not come back. The big animals, or big aquatics, they peacefully live within the water. They never come into the river because in the river there is no place to accommodate them. There are so big gigantic aquatics. So if you want to live perpetually in the water, then you have to keep your identity as one of the aquatics in the water. Then you'll be perfect. Otherwise you'll be baffled. That's all. Is that..., your answer is satisfactory? Yes. Any other question?



*Your question is very intelligent. Unfortunately, people are not intelligent enough even to put questions and to answer this great science. And we are very much proud of our advanced education. They do not know what he is. Simply coming, accepting a body, and living for some time, and just dying like cats and dogs. That's all. They are most abominable condition of human civilization at the present moment that they do not take care about the real identity of his self. He's simply mistakenly identifying himself with this body, which he's not. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. The Bhāgavata says one who identifies this body with his self, and one who thinks that the bodily relationship is the protector of his kinsmen, and the body produced in certain part of the land is accepted as worshipable-there are so many descriptions-such man is no better than an ass or cow. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cow and khara means ass. So these are the description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is a challenge. But people are so much engrossed in ignorance that they don't care. "All right. Let us go on like this." And if I say that "You are God. You can do whatever nonsense you like, you do," then you'll be very pleased. You'll be very pleased. And people will be very much eager to hear me, you see? But we cannot say such thing, bluffing thing. Any other questions? Let us have kīrtana. Or at least chant with us Hare Kṛṣṇa for some time.

Brahmānanda: Simply chant the mantra, then I repeat(?), Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



Prabhupāda: Chant. (kīrtana) [break] So... You may, you make one dozen pictures like this.



Jadurāṇī: What? One dozen?



Prabhupāda: Pictures. You make them. Yes. [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...from Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction, I'll request you to practice another prayer. I'll pray the last line, govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. You'll repeat that. Now try to under... (chants one word at a time with devotees repeating:) govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (sings:) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (repeats several times, devotees trying to sing along). The meaning of this line is govindam, the Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, and govindam ādi-puruṣam. Ādi-puruṣam means the original person. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam, "unto You," bhajāmi, "I offer my respectful obeisances." This is the meaning. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Repeat.



*Devotees: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (repeats, devotees respond)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



Repeat. (devotees respond, repeats, response)



*veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



Repeat.



*Devotees: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.



*Prabhupāda: Loudly. Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (devotees respond) Yes. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (devotees respond)



*ālola*-candraka-lasad-vanamālya-vaṁśī-

*ratnāṅgadaṁ praṇaya*-keli-kalā-vilāsam

*śyāmaṁ tri*-bhaṅga-lalitaṁ niyata-prakāśaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.31]



*(devotees respond) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (repeats)



*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



(devotees respond, repeats)



*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.33]



*(repeats with response) Thank you. So in this way, Brahma*-saṁhitā you'll learn, and there is Brahma-saṁhitā book, discuss translation, purport... (end)





680611LE.MON

Lecture at a School

-

Montreal, June 11, 1968



Prabhupāda: Is it working?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So one intelligent boy should come forward. Who is intelligent, most intelligent boy? You come forward? Come on. Eh? Somebody come forward, some of the boys. Come on. You come on. No? All right. Very good. Stand up here. Can you say what is this? What is this?



Boy: Hand.



Prabhupāda: Whose hand?



Boy: Your hand.



Prabhupāda: Your hand. And what is this?



Boy: Your head.



Prabhupāda: My head. Yes. And what is this?



Boy: Your knee.



Prabhupāda: Yes. My leg. And what is this?



Boy: Your clothes.



Prabhupāda: My cloth. Similarly, you have got your head, you have got your hand, you have got your leg, you have got your coat, you have got your pant, but do you know where you are?



Boy: I am here. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: You are here, but that is your coat, that is your pant, that is your hand, that is your leg, that is your head. But where you are? It is your coat, it is your pant, it is your hand, it is your leg. Where you are? Do you know that? Can you say, any of the boys or girls here, where you are?



Boy: No.



Prabhupāda: No? Oh. So you are not taught in this school where you are? Then what is that education? You do not know where you are.



Boy: I do know where I am. I'm in this school.



*Prabhupāda: You do not know, because as you say you are here, here your coat is there, your pant is there, your hand is there, your body is there, but you cannot explain where you are. All right. Sit down. I shall explain. (laughter) This is the defect of modern education. We are educated in a way in which we have misunderstood, "This is my body. This is my hand. This is my leg. This is my country. This is my mother. This is my father. This is my school." "This is my," I know. I have the concept of "my." But who is conceiving "my"? We have no information where it is. In Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said that yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Under misconception we understand my body as myself. I say, "It is my body," but I misidentify my body with myself. Is it not?



*So the basic principle of mistake... Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. According to Vedic literature, this body is prepared in three elements: fire, water, and clay. So I am not the combination of fire, water, and clay. Then I am this house, I am this room. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. So basic principle of my knowledge is false, that I am considering this material body as "I am." And if the basic principle is wrong, then, in relationship with this body, because I am born in this land of America... "I am born" means my body is born. Or because my body is born from another body, my father and mother, so I think that "This body is my kinsman, and this country is mine," and so on. But the basic principle is false, that "I am considering, falsely identifying myself with this body. But I am within this body." That is a fact. And how can I understand how I am within this body? I can understand I am within this body by my feeling. If there is some pain or pleasure on my body, I can feel. I am conscious that I am there. In consciousness, I am there. And what is this consciousness? This consciousness is the reflection of real myself. Myself means soul. So as soon as the soul is within this body, there is perception of pains and pleasure, heat and cold, and so many things. That is consciousness. And as soon as the soul is out of this body, there is no more pain, pleasure, or heat and cold. A dead body, if you cut it into pieces, it will not protest. Therefore the soul, or consciousness, the symptom of soul, consciousness, is my self. My consciousness is the symptom of my real self. Similarly, there is another consciousness.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā there are description of two consciousness. Just like I am conscious throughout my body. If you pinch any part of my body, then I feel. That is my consciousness. So I am spread, my consciousness is spread, all over my body. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, avināśi tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam: "That consciousness which is spread all over this body, that is eternal." And antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ: [Bg. 2.18] "But this body is antavat," means imperishable. "This body is perishable, but that consciousness is imperishable, eternal." And that consciousness, or the soul, is transmigrating from one body to another. Just like we are changing dress. I may have this dress. You may have another dress. I may exchange your dress with me. So this changing of dress going on every moment. How? Now, these children, they are now so small. When they'll become young, this body will grow. We do not know... We say, "It is growing," but growing or not growing, this body will not remain. This body will go; another body will come. Medical science also says that every second we are changing blood corpuscles, and therefore change in the body is going on. So you say or I say that "Body is growing," but in the Vedic language it is said that "Body is changing." Just like a child is born so small from the mother's womb, and it changes body every second. Then he becomes a young child or a boy, then young man, then old man like me, and so on. In this way this changing, body changing, is going on. And the final change is called death. Death means... Just like the too much old garments cannot be used, similarly, this body is the garment of the soul. When it is..., no longer can be used, we have to accept another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

*Now, consciousness, the symptom... The presentation of the soul within this body is proved by consciousness. So from Bhagavad*-gītā we can understand there are two different qualities of consciousness. One consciousness is that I know about the pain and pleasure of my body, you know about the pains and pleasures of your body, but I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body; *neither you know the pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore each and every one of us is individual soul, and our consciousness is limited within the body. Similarly, there is another consciousness and another body. That body is universal body, and that consciousness is universal. That universal consciousness knows your pains and pleasure, my pains and pleasure, and millions and trillions of living entities and bodies. He knows the pains and pleasures of everyone. These are the statements in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṣetrajñaṁ ca māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "As individual soul is conscious, is, only of his body, similarly, I am also conscious of everyone's body." The Supreme Personality of Godhead says that "I am conscious of everyone's body," because He is all-pervading. He is all-pervading. That is all-pervading consciousness. So this all-pervading consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are preaching, consciousness, all-pervading consciousness, universal consciousness. So our consciousness, when it is dovetailed with universal consciousness, them our consciousness also becomes universal consciousness. What is that? I will give you one example. Just like a motorcar is running at hundred miles speed, and you are running on your cycle at ten miles speed. But if you catch that motorcar, you will also run in hundred miles speed. Although your capacity of bicycle is only ten miles speed, you also run at hundred miles speed. So unless we dovetail our activities with the supreme consciousness, or God consciousness, there cannot be equality, fraternity, or universality as we are hankering after. It is not possible. You can go on crying in the wilderness for universal fraternity, friendship, equality, but if you keep your individuality, individual consciousness, selfish consciousness, there is no possibility of peace or tranquillity in the world. Therefore people are very much anxious at the present moment for peace and tranquillity over the world, but they do not know how that peace can be attained. Peace can be attained. The formula is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. You can attain peace only when you understand that God is the proprietor of everything.

*Actually, God is proprietor of everything. Now, take for example this house. This house is made of wood, stone, clay, sand, and everything, materials. But who is the proprietor of this wood, sand, clay? God is the proprietor. You cannot produce wood. You cannot produce sand. You cannot produce clay. You can simply work as a laborer to bring the clay, to bring the wood, to bring the stone and collect them and stand, make, construct a very big skyscraper house. But actually, the proprietor is God. This land, this land, America, it was lying before you came from Europe, before you colonized. And it may be, some days after, it will be lying here, and you shall have to go. Therefore who is the proprietor of this land? God is the proprietor. In this way, if we study that "Everything belongs to God. I also belong to God, my self, my body, my mind, my activity, my energy, everything..." Just take for example. I am claiming that "This is my hand," but if God withdraws the energy of the hand, your claim for "my hand" at once goes. So we have to develop that God consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When we speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is God consciousness. People have become degenerated, forgetting God consciousness. Therefore in the present world there is no peace. Materially, they are very much advanced. They are advanced in so*-called education, but they do not know what is "I." The everything, they are claiming, "my and mine," but they do not know what is "I."

*So this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is scientifically presented. It is not a sentiment. It is not a sentimental movement. It is very scientific movement. And the easiest process to come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So we are presenting very easy formula for coming to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. Just a moment before, we were dancing and chanting equally, the boys, the girls, the men, the women. So there is no distinction. Even if we do not understand the language, what is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa, but because it is transcendental, because it is spiritual, from the spiritual platform, everything is equal. We forget that we are American, or we are Indian, we are child, we are youth, or man, or woman, because in the spiritual platform there is no such bodily distinction. So our request to all the guardians of the boys and girls present here, or the teachers, that they should teach from the very beginning this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Otherwise the future of the world is not very bright. It is recommended in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. We are having our class in our temple: the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a five-years-old boy, and he was agitating this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement in his school. The schoolteacher would not allow him to speak about God, but as soon as there was some recess and the child, the boy, five-years-old boy, he would take the opportunity, call his friends and speak on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, should be taught from the very beginning of education. This is the greatest drawback of modern education, that not only in your country or any country they have completely neglected what is meant by God. And in India, they are especially... Now, as soon as there is any question of God, they see phobia: "Oh, this is all nonsense." They have become so clever.

So anyway, my appeal to you, American people, that you are considered to be the leader of all nations of the world. You should take this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement very seriously. It is good for you. It is good for the whole world. It is individually, collectively, without any consideration of caste, creed, or color. Everyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, anyone and everyone, at home, on the street. There is no expenditure. Suppose while walking if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there is no loss, there is no expenditure, but you see how much you are profited by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. We don't say that "You come to our temple and give us some subscription. Become our member." That is a secondary question. Our primary movement is that everyone may take advantage of this movement and simply chant wherever possible, at home, at work, on the street, anywhere. There is no regulation where you have to chant and how you have to chant. It is spontaneous. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. There are only three words there: Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma, but they are adjusted in a different position. There are sixteen words. So it is not very difficult. You can make an experiment. The children also may take pleasure. We have got our records. If you play those records and chant with it, you will find a transcendental pleasure in you. These are facts. So our request to you, that you take this movement a little seriously, and you will be happy by grace of Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. If you have got any question, you can ask. (pause)

Devotee: We should chant about five minutes. Then we'll serve milk.



Prabhupāda: Yes. No, let, if there is any question, we shall answer. That is not yet one hour.



Devotee: Some of the older boys want to stay after, and you can discuss with them then. They may have some questions.



Prabhupāda: So first of all you have to chant? All right. Please join with us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes?



Yamunā: Swamijī, may I say something before we chant?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Yamunā: I want everybody to listen very carefully. This is a new song that... It would be very nice if you should learn how to sing and learn how to sing it very well. And the only way you can do it is by listening very carefully, everybody, So give your attention to these words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, if everybody will do this, and stand up, close your eyes very tight, put your hands up in the air and sing this song, so you really learn the words, and you can go home and teach it to your brothers and sisters and your mother and your father, and tell them what you learned today. You have to say you learned something. So if you teach them this song, that would be very nice. But you must learn it by listening. So listen to the words. Then get up, close your eyes and just sing. And you'll find it's a very nice song. But unless you try it, you won't learn it. Just like all the other songs you learn in your class. So try it. So I'm going to say the words, and then you say the words after me. We're going to practice it once. Okay. (with children repeating) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Okay. Now we're going to clap our hands too. [break]



Devotee: Do you want this? It's pineapple.



Prabhupāda: Distribute prasāda. What is this?



Devotee: Pineapple. There's apples too.



Prabhupāda: Pineapple? Oh. There is what? What is that?



Devotee: Oh, this is milk and bananas.



Prabhupāda: Oh!



Devotee: Warm milk and bananas. (end)





680615LE.MON

Lecture Engagement

-

Montreal, June 15, 1968



Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is reviving our original consciousness. At the present moment, due to our long association with matter, the consciousness has become contaminated, just like when the rain water falls down from the cloud, the water is uncontaminated, distilled water, pure, but as soon as the water falls down on this earth, it becomes mixed up with so many dirty things. When the water falls it is not salty, but when it is touched with the matter or earth, it becomes salty, or tasty, or something like that. Similarly, originally, as spirit soul, our consciousness is uncontaminated, but due to our association with the matter at the present moment, our consciousness is contaminated. Therefore we have got so many varieties of consciousness. Disagreements between one person to another is due to this contaminated consciousness. I think some way; you think otherwise. Therefore we do not agree. But originally, your consciousness and my consciousness were one. And what is that one? That conscious, pure consciousness, is "God is great, and I am His eternal servant." That is pure consciousness. As soon as we want to imitate or artificially want to become one with God, immediately the contamination begins. There is a Bengali verse in which it is stated that,



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



The English translation is that "When an individual soul forgets his eternal relationship with God and tries to lord it over the material nature or resources, that condition, that forgetful condition, is called māyā, or illusion." So at the present moment, especially in this age, the forgetfulness of our eternal relationship with God is very strong. And by chanting this transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa, the first installment is that our heart or the mind becomes cleansed of all dirty things. This is not a theoretical proposition, but it is a fact. If you go on chanting this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is not difficult. Although it is pronounced in Sanskrit language, everyone can chant it just like in this meeting we began to chant, and you also joined with us. Here, all my students, they are all Americans. None of them are Indian, but still, they have learned it very nicely, and it is not difficult. And there is no expenditure.



*So what is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? Hare means the energy of the Lord, and Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So it is a prayer. There are three words only: Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, three words. That has been arranged in sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So our movement is that we request you to take up these sixteen words*-not sixteen words, three words, Hare, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma. But is is arranged in such a way that there are sixteen words. So anyone can take it by heart, these three words, and chant it. It is universal. And if you think that "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the name of Hindu god," if you have got any objection, then you may not chant Kṛṣṇa, but you must have a name for God. Just like somebody, the Muhammadans, call Allah, the Jews call Jehovah, or somebody calls something. That doesn't matter. If you think that "Why shall I chant the Indian name Kṛṣṇa, Sanskrit name Kṛṣṇa?" so Lord Caitanya says that there are millions and billions of names of God. If you think that this Kṛṣṇa name is not very suitable, you can accept any name. That doesn't matter. Our proposition is you chant God's name. That is our proposal. Therefore it is universal. If you like, you can chant Jehovah or you can chant Allah, but we request you that you chant God's name. Is it very difficult? It is not at all difficult. Lord Caitanya said that there are innumerable names of God according to different languages, different countries, different societies. And each and every one of them has the potency of God Himself. If there is any God, so God is Absolute; therefore there is no difference between His name and He Himself. Just like in the material world, in the world of duality there is difference between the name "water" and the substance water. The name water is different from the substance water. If you are thirsty, if you simply chant, "Water, water, water, water," your thirstiness will not be quenched. You require the substance water. That is material, but spiritually, the name Kṛṣṇa or the name Allah or the name Jehovah is as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Therefore if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa... You may inquire why we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, this name, was chanted by Lord Caitanya, who introduced this movement five hundred years ago in India. We are following the footprints of Lord Caitanya. Because He chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But Lord Caitanya has recommended that God has innumerable names, and any one of them can be chanted, and there is no hard and fast rules and regulations for chanting. It is not that you have to prepare yourself or you have to educate yourself or you have to adjust yourself for chanting. No. Everyone. Just like immediately we began to chant. You were not prepared, but you joined with us, you clapped with us, you danced with us. So similarly, there is no preoccupation or any rules and regulation. You simply chant. And this is very easy. While walking, you can chant whatever name you like. We like Kṛṣṇa. We chant always: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. While walking the streets, while you are going in the bus, and whatever, even while working with your hands, you can chant. There is no loss on your part. There is no expenditure on your part, but the gain is very great. Why don't you try it? Try it. That is our request.

*So the benefit will be that gradually you shall understand what you are. The whole civilization, modern civilization, is going on under a wrong impression that "I am this body." In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that "One who goes on with the concept of the body, he is no better than an ass or cow." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke... [SB 10.84.13]. It is a very long verse. But actually we are not this body. So if we chant this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I can understand what I am. And as soon as I understand that I am not this body, then my activities become different, because at the present moment I am acting on the concept of my life as this body. Because this body is born of a particular place in a particular country, therefore I am saying that "I am American," or "Indian," or "China" or "German," due to this body. And because I have got relationship with some woman with this body, therefore I accept the woman as my wife. There are hundreds of thousands of women, but the woman who has got relationship with this body is my wife. There are thousands and millions of children, but one child who has got intimate relation with this body I call my son. So if the body falsely identified, then we can understand that our identification with this world is also false. The real identification is, as it is stated in the Vedic literature, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman." "I am Brahman" means "I am spirit soul. I am not this matter." So this misconception has to be removed. Of course, it is not possible that everyone will understand or everyone will be able to understand it, but even a certain percentage of the human society can understand, immediately there is solution of so many problems*-to understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And how that solution is made, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*This Bhagavad*-gītā is the science of God. Just like in your Christian Bible or any other scriptures, Muhammadan or Christian or Jews or Buddhists... So ahaṁ brahmāsmi means that "I am spirit soul," this realization. As soon as this realization is there, then the other things immediately follow. What is that? Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Immediately one becomes cheerful. So long we have got this bodily concept of life, we cannot be cheerful. Full of anxiety. And as soon as we understand that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul," the next moment you will be cheerful. There will be no anxiety. I am full of anxiety because on account of this bodily concept of life. Just like one man has got very costly motorcar, and he is running the car on the street. He is very careful so that there may not be any accident in the car, the car may not break. So much anxiety. But a man who is walking on the street, he has no such anxiety. Why the man in the car is so anxious? Because he has identified himself with the car. If the car, if there is any accident to the car, if the car breaks, he thinks, "I am gone. Oh, my car is gone." Although he is different from car, he thinks like that due to identification, false identification. Similarly, because we are falsely identified with this body, therefore we have got so many problems of life. So if we want to make solution of the problems of life, then we have to understand what I am. And unless this question arises in your mind*-not only in your mind, everyone's mind-then we should, we must consider that whatever we are doing, that is our defeat because we are doing everything in false consciousness.

*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ means one who is born fool. Every one of us is a born fool. Why? From the beginning of our life I know that "I am this body," although I am not this body. Therefore we are all born fools, everyone. And therefore, according to Vedic civilization, one has to take his second birth. One birth is made possible by conjugation of the father and mother. That birth is called animal birth. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone, by birth, is śūdra, or the lowest class of man. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ: "By reformation, one becomes twice-born." And what is that reformation? By understanding oneself, "What I am." Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ, veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ: "And after twice, after his second birth, if he tries to understand the spiritual science, the science of God, then he is called vipra." Vipra means quite congnizant. And brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "And when he understands that he is Brahman, he is spirit soul, then he becomes a brāhmaṇa." Perhaps you have heard that in India the brāhmaṇas are called the topmost men of the society. Why? Because he knows that "I am Brahman; *I am not this matter." Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. So by understanding Brahman your position will be that prasannātmā, you'll be joyful, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, you will never lament any loss, neither you will hanker after any so*-called gain, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, and you will look every living entity on the same level. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. In that stage of realization, you can understand what is God and what is your relationship with God.

*Therefore this movement is that one understands himself what he is. It is, of course, very plain question and answer. The other day we had some lectures in a, one Sunday school, and I called one, a small boy, and I asked him that "What is this?" He said, "It is my hand, it is my head, it is my leg, it is my body, it is my pants, it is my..." And I asked him, "Where you are? You are simply saying 'my, my, my,' and where you are?" So similarly, everyone can understand that what I am? If you think yourself, if you meditate on yourself, if you see your hand, "Am I this hand?" you will say, "No, it is my hand." "Am I this leg?" You will say, "No, it is my leg." "Am I this head?" "No, it is my head." Then where you are? So that person who is thinking within that "It is my hand, it is my head, it is my leg, it is my pant, it is my coat," that you are. So have you seen that thing? You have seen your father, you have seen your mother or you have seen your son. But have you seen the real father who is within the body of the father? Have you seen the real son which is in the body of the son? No. Then your whole conception of education, your whole conception of living condition and problems*-in the false world. Therefore this movement is required at the present moment in the world. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This will cleanse the status of your mental condition. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. And as soon as you understand yourself, then the whole problem-social, political, economical-everything will be solved. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇam. And gradually you shall realize your transcendental life. Your transcendental life is joyful. Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. Transcendental life means always full of joy, joyful. That is our nature. We are hankering after joyful life, but we do not know where to hanker, how to get it. By nature we are joyful. It is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12) "By nature a living entity is joyful." But my joyfulness is covered by this material understanding. So I have to remove this material understanding; then again I shall become joyful.

So this movement is very scientific movement, and we have got authoritative statements. You cannot defy authority, authority. As an authority, minister of this Unitarian Church, in one place he has denied authority, and in another place he has quoted so many authorities. So many authorities he has quoted. Why? If you deny authority, then why you quote other authority? So you cannot defy authority. This is not possible. From the beginning of your life, when you were child, you asked your parents, "Mother, father, what is this?" Why? That is the beginning of life. You cannot go even a step without authority. You are governed by authority. You are running your car by authority-"Keep to the right." Why? Why don't you defy it? So authority we have to obey. But the difficulty is: who is authority? That we require to learn who is actually authority. So authority means who has no mistakes, who has no illusion, who does not cheat, and whose senses are perfect. That is authority. That is the definition of authority. A conditioned soul who... Just... "To err is human." Any human being is sure to commit mistakes. However learned he may be, however advanced he may be, he must commit mistake. Therefore this word is, "To err is human." And one must be illusioned. And there is cheating propensity of every man. Even a child, he wants to cheat. The mother asks, "Oh, what is in your hand?" Oh, the child says, "No, mother, nothing," although the mother can see he has got something. So the cheating propensity is there. And above all, your senses are imperfect. You are proud of your eyes: "I want to see." What you can see? If the light is off, your seeing power is immediately gone. If there is no sun, your seeing power is gone. Therefore we see under conditions. Therefore imperfect. So you cannot get perfect knowledge by imperfect senses, by speculative knowledge. You have to accept authority. Just like if you want to know who is your father, the authority is your mother. The mother says, "Here is your father." You have to accept. You cannot make research. Mother is the last authority, who is your father. Similarly, we have to accept authority, and if the authority is not a conditioned soul, if he is liberated soul, if he is not a cheater, if his senses are not imperfect, if he does not make any mistakes, if he is not in illusion, if you receive knowledge from that authority, then your knowledge is perfect. That is the process.

*So we have got such authoritative, I mean to say, literature, Vedic literatures. You can test it by your reason, by your arguments, by your philosophical talks, everything. Religion without philosophical basis, without scientific basis, is sentiment. That religion based on philosophy and science, that is right. So Bhagavad-gītā is that book. Any question, any inquiry, any doubt*-all the answers are there, and very nicely. Just like one or two verse I shall explain to you. In one place Bhagavad-gītā says that..., the Lord says that,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*The Lord says that there are eight hundred, er, 8,400,000 species of life, different forms of life, species of life. There are aquatics, there are plants, trees, worms, germs, then birds, beasts, and at last, the human species of life, only 400,000's. So Kṛṣṇa says that "All the species of life-never mind whether he is man or he's a dog, he's a cat-he's a living entity, and I am the seed-giving father of all living entities." Now, how nice, you can understand simply. This verse, if you can understand, then you can have some idea of universal brotherhood. If you want to make universal brotherhood, you must find out the center*-the universal father. So these questions and answers are there, and we have got the science of God, the education of science of God, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So these books are meant for human society, and if you take advantage of the knowledge imparted in this book and if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you will see how your life becomes improved, how you become full of knowledge, full of bliss, and how you advance in your eternal life.



Thank you very much. If any question, you can make. (end)



680626LE.MON

Lecture

-

Montreal, June 26, 1968



*Prabhupāda: ...how Kṛṣṇa's money is being stolen by this coward. Stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. Anyone who is using Kṛṣṇa's money without acknowledging, he is a thief. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Stena eva sa ucyate: he's a thief. So in this material world, one who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one who is not using things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Everyone is using Kṛṣṇa's... Nobody has got any property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the version in Īśopaniṣad. Now, in this American land, now divided into Canada, North America, South America, but originally, to whom this land belongs? It belongs to Kṛṣṇa. You have come here and have divided Kṛṣṇa's property and you have named "This is Canada, this is North America, this is South America," and you are claiming proprietorship. But if you are asked, "Are you really proprietor?" No. You have come here, encroached upon others' property. So originally, you are thief. Actually this is the position, that anyone who is unlawfully claiming something, "It is mine," that is illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This ahaṁ mameti, "It is mine, and it is I. This body, I. And in bodily relation, everything mine," these two things are illusion. Ahaṁ mameti. Aham means "I." What "I"? This body. And what "mine"? This, "My wife is mine, my children, my home, my country." Why? Because the bodily relationship is there.



*So the original platform, that I am not this body, then every relationship becomes false, illusion. This is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, how this illusion develops. The illusion develops because it is the kingdom of māyā. Māyā is attracting us. What is that attracting force? That attracting force is for man, woman; *and for woman, man. This is attractive. This whole world is going on, not only in the human society, but in dog society, cat society, hog society, bird society-everywhere*-the woman is attractive for man, and man is attractive for woman. This is māyā. This is māyā. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that this attractive feature is pulling on this material existence. Therefore the training is how to detract. In the beginning the brahmacārī training is given because to know that this body, woman body, is actually not attractive. What is this attractive? This is made of flesh and blood. Similarly for woman, if I analyze the man's body, or woman's, what is there? Flesh and blood. But that flesh and blood is very attractive? That story, perhaps I have enunciated, that beauty was kept in a pot? Do you remember? Huh? I may repeat that story again, that one girl was very beautiful, and one boy was after him (her). But in India the boys and girls are not allowed to mix freely unless they are husband and wife. So this girl was married, but she was not very rich. But that boy was very rich and he was after her. He was always proposing her. And she became perplexed, that "He is rich man. If I don't agree, then he may do some harm to my husband, to me." So she made a plan that "All right. I agree to your proposal. You come to my house in such and such night. I'll be engaged with you." Oh, he was very... In the meantime, (s)he took some purgative pill, strong. So for six, seven days, she simply purged out all the beauty in vomiting and in passing stool. So those vomits and stools were kept in two pots. And naturally, if you pass stool for one day, your feature becomes immediately ugly. That is a fact. So she passed stool and vomiting seven days. Naturally, she became very ugly. So when the boy came, she was sitting there on the door. The boy was asking, "Where is such and such girl?" She said, "Yes, I am. I am here." "No, you are not her. Oh, she is so beautiful, and you are so ugly." "No, I am the same girl." "Why you have become so ugly?" "Because I have extracted my beauty.' "Where is that?" "Just see in these two pots." (laughter) "So if you like, you can enjoy this beauty." (laughter)

*So actually, if we dissect our body, then the beauty things, they are within, some stool, some urine, some intestines, some brains, some muscles, some blood. These will be found. This is called māyā. But that stool, urine, muscle, brains, and intestines are so nicely decorated that it can attract you. It has got a full attraction, both for the boys and the girls. Bhāgavata has done nice that the illusion of this world is that attraction. What is that attraction? False attraction. The man is attracted by woman, woman is attracted by man. And the business is going on. Especially in this country, I see the girls are attracting by their bodily features in so many ways. You see? So similarly boys are attracting girls by so many features, especially by nice motorcar and so many things. So in every society, according to the standard of living, according..., these attractive features are going on. In birds, beasts... And when they are united... Everyone is trying to attract others. A girl is trying to attract another boy, the boy is trying to attract another girl. These attracting features is going on. And as soon as they are actually attracted and joined together, the illusion becomes doubly knotted. Tayor mitha hṛdaya*-granthim āhur. Hṛdaya-granthim means everything is within the heart. If I study, "Oh, what is this attraction?" if I understand how it is simply combination of blood, stool and urine and intestine and muscle and skin and hair and nails, then if I study philosophically, so what is there? Have I got any attraction for all these things? No. So it is all false. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], that if we clarify our heart, then we become liberated. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting process is clarifying.

*So tayor mitha hṛdaya*-granthim āhur. As soon as a man and woman is combined together, that means the knot of material attraction becomes doubly tightened. Then they want apartment, gṛha. Ato gṛha-kṣetra. Kṣetra means... Of course, nowadays everyone is seeking after employment, but formerly nobody, there was no industry, no big business. Everyone has to produce something, foodstuff, out of the kṣetra, field. So if you become a family man you must have some source of income. That source of income is land, as Rāyarāma was explaining you. Actually the land is the source of income. If you can utilize the land, then there is everything stocked there. This same example can be given. This American land was lying vacant, but since the Europeans took possession of that, at least they have exploited the resources. So everything was on the land. So land is really property. So gṛha-kṣetra, apartment, land. Gṛha-kṣetra-suta. As soon as they have married, they require, they at least desire to have a child. At least, the girl wants. Although now the process is different, but the hankering is that girls, women, they want child. That is sentiment. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-suta āpta. Āpta means relatives. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair [SB 5.5.8]. Vittair means wealth, some bank balance. In this way go on increasing. Janasya moho 'yam. This is the moha, this is illusion. So this illusion is so strong that we are going on increasing, increasing, increasing, increasing. Nobody is thinking that "I am increasing the requisites of the body, but I am not this body; *I am soul. What is the requisition of the soul?" This is conclusion. They have forgotten. Real interest they have forgotten. The superficial interest. The same example can be given. Just like if you simply soap your shirt and coat and do not take care of your real body, or do not feed your body, then how long we shall exist? My Guru Mahārāja used to give one nice example that a man was drowning. Another man came, that "I shall save this man." So he jumped on the water, and when coming out of the water he brought the shirt and coat: "Now I have saved the man." The so*-called service, or any service which is going on, that is serving the shirt and coat. Nobody is serving the soul. That is the mistake of modern civilization. There are many hospitals to cure the bodily diseases, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to cure the disease of the soul. Disease of the soul. Every soul, every person, is mistaken to accept this body as his self or the mind as his self. This is the difference. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is accepting this body as self, he's either an ass or a cow. Misconception. So people are not interested. We are trying, the Bhagavad-gītā is trying. In the beginning, beginning of the instruction... Just like Arjuna was identifying himself with this body in the beginning, and he was thinking that "He is my grandfather, he is my son, he is my nephew, he is my...,." so on, so on. Kṛṣṇa replied him. When Arjuna was unable to make a solution of his problems, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I surrender unto You as Your disciple. Please save me from this (sic:) perpetry." Then Kṛṣṇa in the first instance replied, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "My dear Arjuna..." Because he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master, so spiritual master has the right to chide his disciple. So He immediately chided him, that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like a very learned man, but you are fool number one." That was His first words. Of course, He did not say directly "fool number one," but He said indirectly that "No learned man speaks like this, as you are speaking." That means, "You are not learned man. You are fool." He indirectly said, nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Paṇḍita means learned. "No learned man speaks like that. But because you are speaking like that, that means you are not learned man. Or in one word, you are fool." Because before Kṛṣṇa, he was speaking that "If I kill my family members, then such and such thing will happen. Then the women will become polluted and there will be unwanted children, varṇa-saṅkara. And as soon as there is varṇa-saṅkara, full of unwanted children, this world will be hell." These are facts. These are facts. The world has become hell due to unwanted children. That is the fact. So Kṛṣṇa was speaking... Arjuna was speaking just like ordinary gentleman on the material field, but Kṛṣṇa, when He took up his charge, He said that "You are hovering over the material plane. That is not your learning. The learning is when you understand from the spiritual platform."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



"The paṇḍitāḥ, the learned man, he does not lament over the body, either living or dead." Because bodily platform is not the subject matter for understanding of philosophical research. Bodily platform is not very important. The spiritual platform is important, but nobody is discussing about spiritual platform. Everyone is, all the education centers, the universities, they are, I mean to say, busy studying chemistry, physics, and biology, mathematics. At most, little philosophy. That is also on mental speculation, theory. Somebody is giving some theory; somebody's giving (another) theory. But nobody discussing about the eternal spirit soul. That is the defect of this modern civilization.



*So it is very hard task for us to convince them, but the fact is this. Either they accept or not accept, it is our misfortune or their misfortune, but the fact is this, that as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, or as Lord Kṛṣṇa said, that mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities are My part and parcels." So what is the duty of part and parcel? The part and parcel is... Of course, the same example. Just my, this hand is part and parcel of the body. So the duty of the hand is to serve the whole body. That's all. There is no other duty. The hand cannot eat out of his own account. The hand cannot do anything out of its own account. The direction should be from the whole, from me, and then the hand should work. This is the part and parcel duty. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Just like my hand, my leg, or my tongue, they are all servants of me and the whole, similarly everyone, every living entity, is the eternal servant of the Supreme, supreme controller. So the duty of everyone is to serve Him. That is natural duty. That is natural. Any other position is diseased condition. In other words, who is not acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is diseased. The treatment is this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. Just like when a man is bitten by a serpent, there is some mantra. Of course, I do not know whether you have got this experience, but India there are experts who, simply by chanting mantra, he can give life to a man who is bitten by serpent. Mantrauṣadhi-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ. Mantra and auṣadhi. Auṣadhi means there are herbs. Of course, these things are now gone, but there, still there are persons. So even the mantra can give a so-called dead man bitten by serpent. Similarly, we are bitten by the serpent of māyā, and this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, will raise him to consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is effect.

Now you can speak.

Janārdana: The predicament of mankind... [break]



Prabhupāda: There is nice verse in which it is stated that,



sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ

*vedānta*-vid vedānta-kṛd cāham

[Bg. 15.15]



*The purport of this verse is that "I am situated in everyone's heart." Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. Everyone's heart, Kṛṣṇa is there, or the Paramātmā is there. And mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. And all the speculation or real understanding or forgetfulness or real knowledge, they are coming, being initiated from Him. Mattaḥ: "from Me." Smṛtir means memory; *jñāna means knowledge. Apohanaṁ ca: "forgetfulness." Everything is... Forgetfulness is also from Him. Knowledge is also from Him. Memory is also from Him. And vedais, vedais means all books of knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair. Sarvair means all varieties. It is not that simply the four Vedas, as we accept in India, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva. No. Any authorized scripture, that is Vedas. Any authorized scripture. Vedaiś ca sarvair. "All kinds of Vedas, they are searching after Me." The knowledge... Actually, the destination of knowledge, as Śrīman Janārdana... What we are searching after? He has summarized that we are searching after happiness. That's a fact. But we do not know where the happiness is there. That is our... Searching, I am... Subject matter of searching is happiness. Everyone in this material world is after happiness. But unfortunately, one has no information where is the happiness. That remembrance can be... Where is the happiness? That can be had from the Supersoul, who is sitting with you within your heart. Within your heart. Because Kṛṣṇa says that "I am sitting in everyone's heart as Supersoul, and from Me, intelligence, memory, knowledge, forgetfulness-everything*-is being happened."



*Now the question is why one is in forgetfulness and why one is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Is it a fact that Kṛṣṇa is dealing with different persons differently, that one is being fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and another is in different consciousness, or forgetting Kṛṣṇa? Apohanam. That is also due to Kṛṣṇa. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa is very merciful. The why answer can be given that Kṛṣṇa is very merciful. How merciful? One is given forgetfulness. How Kṛṣṇa is merciful? Yes, He's merciful. How is it? Because he wanted to forget Kṛṣṇa. He wanted to forget Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa will give him such sources of forgetfulness that he'll never be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. "You enjoy. You want to forget Kṛṣṇa, or God? All right. I'll give you intelligence so that you will never be able to understand what is God." Not exactly memory... Because living entity, sometimes by good association will come... So this is not Kṛṣṇa's partiality. He has given everyone a little quantity of independence. Just like these boys who have come here, that is out of independence. They are playing, but out of independence they have come. And they may sit down for some time and out of independence may go away. So this independence is there even in the ant, even in the worm and everywhere, because we are part and parcel of God and God is fully independent. But we cannot be fully independent. Just like in the state. You are belonging to an independent state, but that does not mean that you can do anything and everything. You have no such independence. There is state law and order. Similarly, as in the state we are independent citizens, but if we violate law and order, then we shall be punished. It is very simple thing. But the rascal civilization, they say God is dead. How God can be dead? The law of God are acting so nicely. How God can be dead? That means he wanted to forget God, so he has come to the conclusion, "God is dead." He has come to this conclusion. While, on the other hand, who wants God, they are perfectly visioning that "Next life I am going to meet God face to face." This intelligence is given to him by God also. That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā.

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayanti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*"Those who are constantly engaged with love and faith in My service, teṣām, buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi, I give them such intelligence by which gradually they make progress to come back to Me."



*So actually, although we have got independence, we have got consciousness, we have got power of thinking, of understanding, but it is limited. Therefore we don't agree with one another. However I may be big philosopher, I may be very big philosopher, very logician, but as soon as another big logician, another big philosopher comes, he defeats me. That is the way. And every philosopher, every logician is trying to defeat your theory, as you are trying to defeat others' theories. This is going on. So as Śrīman Janārdana said, the knowledge which you are searching in different ways, that is impossible to come to the conclusion. Because we are searching with... However I may accept this method or that method or that method, but accepting the method means employing my senses. But the senses are imperfect. Either I accept this or that, I have to work with my senses. There are no other instruments. So when senses are imperfect, so whatever method you accept, that will be imperfect. Then which method will be perfect? That method will be perfect, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. When Kṛṣṇa from within yourself will give you right direction, then you'll come to the ultimate destination. Otherwise, whatever, however a great philosopher, scientist, or anything you may be, you'll simply hover on the material, mental plane. That's all.

*So either you call perfect knowledge or you call happiness, anything, what you call, if you want to know the ultimate goal of your life perfectly, you have to follow a different method. A different method. That method is called avaroha*-panthā. There are... All methods of acquiring knowledge can be divided into two groups. One group is called āroha-panthā, or research, inductive process. And another method is called deductive process, or avaroha-panthā. The knowledge coming from the supreme source, that is called avaroha-panthā, and the knowledge which is being sought after by using our imperfect senses, that is called āroha-panthā. Ascending process and descending process. So by ascending process, we can never come to the real knowledge. That is not possible, because our senses are imperfect. How we can ascend? Just like people are trying to ascend to the higher planetary system, but the instrument, sputnik itself, is imperfect. How you can go there? You can go 25,000 miles, again come back. Punar mūṣiko bhava. So this is going on. Because we are imperfect in every respect, so therefore we have to receive knowledge from the perfect. That is the process, real process. If your knowledge... Just like Janārdana suggested three processes, one by applying our senses, another by accepting knowledge from others, and another, rejection. Two ways. Or skepticism, make void. So this is out of frustration. So make the mind void, no more thinking. And knowledge by imperfect senses, that will always remain imperfect. And knowledge from others, that is real goal. But provided you receive that knowledge from the perfect... As we have given several times the example, just like a child wants to know who is his father. Now if he searches out "Who is my father?" he asks everybody, "Are you my father? Are you my father? Are you my father?" he will have to go on searching. Then again if he asks his neighbor, "Who is my father?" the neighbor also may not know and may give him misinformation. So that is also not possible. But if he goes to his mother and his mother is sincere and perfect, she can give, "My dear boy, he is your father." That is perfect. So neither by researching one can find out his father, neither by employing his imperfect senses. But if he receives the knowledge from the sincere mother, then the knowledge is perfect. And he has no other alternative to know who is his father except the source of a sincere mother. Similarly, the Bhāgavat says, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are beyond your power of realization, don't try to understand by your so-called logic and argument. All nonsense. All nonsense.

*Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ. This process of argument and logic, gymnasium, is imperfect always. You cannot realize what is the ultimate goal of life. Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. Śruta means Vedas or books of knowledge. There are different kinds of theories and doctrines. So if you read those books, unless you are very nicely directed, that will create also perplexity. Śrutayo vibhinnam. And so far philosophical speculation is concerned, the Bhāgavata says that nāsau muni yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Muni means mental speculator. So you cannot find any mental speculator who is not differing from another mental speculator. So tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ, the path of so*-called logic and argument, is not perfect. Then, simply if you study different books of knowledge, that will also not give you perfect knowledge. If you consult so-called mental speculators, their different views, then dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. The ultimate goal of life is very confidential and mysterious. And how to know it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājana means the perfect realized souls who have realized, you have to follow them. That's all. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Therefore this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is accepting the mahājana, the authority. The first authority is Kṛṣṇa. From Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is hearing. There is no question about it. Now if you simply understand as Arjuna understood, then you have got the perfect knowledge. And if you speculate, if you try to comment in your own nonsense way, then you are misled immediately. So this is the way. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājana means those who are perfect personalities. That will give you (?). That will do (?). Now, there are, according to Vedic system, there are twelve mahājanas. They are all in agreement that the supreme power is the Absolute Personality of Godhead. And they have become all devotees, they have served, they have prescribed rules and regulations. You can... So if we follow these rules and regulations and the mahājana, and many... As it is stated in Bhāgavatam, that those who have followed, they have got perfection. You can get also perfection, there is no doubt about it. Simply you have to follow the footprints of the ācāryas. Then your life will be perfect.

Thank you. If there is any question, you can ask.

Guest: What is the best time to (indistinct)?



Devotee: Early in the morning. (talking very low in background)



Guest: How do you know how to follow the footsteps of the mahājanas?



Prabhupāda: There is a paramparā, or disciplic succession of mahājanas. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the original authority. Now the paramparā system is there. From Kṛṣṇa, Brahmā heard; *from Brahma, Nārada. If we do not go so far... Now, Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna. Arjuna is mahājana therefore. It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "Because you are My devotee, you are in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *therefore I am speaking to you this confidential yoga system, Bhagavad*-gītā." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam. "The process was there. Now it is lost. So I am speaking to you again the old system because you are My devotee." Similarly those, or one person who is accepting the version of Arjuna, as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, he is mahā jana, and you have to follow him. That's all. If somebody is speaking something against as Arjuna understood, he is not a mahājana. He's a rascal. The simple test. And you go to the Tenth Chapter, Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna says, "Kṛṣṇa," sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan vadasi keśava [Bg. 10.14], "whatever You are speaking, I accept it in toto, without any minus." This is mahājana. Not that according to my whims, I cut something, I accept something. No. One who is accepting the version of Arjuna or Kṛṣṇa, he is mahājana. You can follow him. That's all. It is simple thing. You haven't got to find out who is mahājana. The mahājana means who is following another mahājana, say follow Arjuna. He is mahājana. [break] ...to read Bhagavad-gītā and try to understand how Arjuna understood it, then you get... And anyone following the footprints of Arjuna, he's mahājana. (end)





680629LE.MON

Lecture Excerpt

-

Montreal, June 29, 1968



Prabhupāda: ...ātmā and Paramātmā the same, but quantitatively ātmā and Paramātmā different. So the Supersoul is present everywhere. Supersoul is present within you, Supersoul is present within me, Supersoul is present in all ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls present here. But ātmā is individual ātmā. He is present in his body. For example, that you can feel what is happening in your body, the pleasure and pains of your body you can feel, but you cannot feel the pleasure and pains of other's body; *therefore you are individual. Others are also individual. And the Paramātmā, He is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. This ātmā and Paramātmā, kṣetra, kṣetrajña is very nicely explained in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. You'll profit by reading that. The Lord says that this body is kṣetra. Kṣetra means the field of activities. Everyone is acting according to the body he has got by the grace of material nature. So the body is the field of activity, and you or me, ātmā, we are the proprietor of the body. We are called kṣetrajña. And Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarve kṣetreṣu bhārata. Now I am present in my body, you are present in your body, but the Paramātmā, or Supersoul, is present in everyone's body. Another example can be given. Just like this house, there are many apartments. So I am occupying this apartment, another tenant is occupying another apartment. But the landlord is occupier or the proprietor of all the apartments. That is the difference between ātmā and Paramātmā. I am proprietor of the things which has been offered to me by material nature, but God, or Paramātmā is the proprietor of everything. That is the difference. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti, the material nature, is offering me as I want. She is supplying ingredients. If I want to be human being, then she supplies a similar body, and if I want to become a dog, she supplies similar body.



*So actually, we are under the grip of this material nature, and we are being pushed life after life in different bodies by the influence of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. How prakṛti, nature, is working? According to the quality we acquire. Gunaiḥ. There are three qualities: the good quality, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance. So we are being contaminated by certain type of quality, and the nature is supplying me a type of body. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies, and we are going through them in a cycle. And as soon as we become, I mean to say, devotee, or we look forward to the Paramātmā, then we can be free from the cycle of repeated birth and death. This yoga system is..., meditation means to find out the Paramātmā. The Paramātmā is described in the śāstras: His feature, His body, His hand, Supersoul. And one has to meditate. And by meditation, when one is in samādhi, always thinking of the Supersoul, then he becomes freed from this material entanglement. That is self*-realization. That is liberation. So Paramātmā and individual ātmā, or the living creature, they are qualitatively one but quantitatively different. Yes. Yes?

*Indian man: Bhagavad*-gītā explains that every devotee is protected by the Lord, and Prahlāda Mahārāja, in this life as Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father becomes a demon, demon, and he has to fight Nṛsiṁha. That means it is the karma of a previous life, and he's praying, he has to pray to the Lord to protect him. Or is it understood that he'll get the protection? So why this prayer?



*Prabhupāda: He was protected. Devotees are not under the karma. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is stated, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured by his father in so many ways, but he was not affected. He was not affected. Superficially... Just like in the Christian Bible also, that Lord Jesus Christ was tortured, but he was not affected. This is the difference between ordinary man and the devotees or transcendentalists. Apparently it is seen that a devotee is being tortured, but he is not tortured. There is one example, nice example. Just like the cat. The cat carries the kitties in the mouth, and it carries a mouse also in the mouth. So apparently it is seen that a cat is carrying its kitties in the mouth means it is in pain. But it is not in pain. That is a fact. Rather, she feels very comfortable. You see? But when the cat, the same cat, catches one mouse, his life is gone. But you see that she is carrying in the mouth both of them. Similarly, whenever you'll find that a great devotee is placed into torturing condition, he does not feel. But the demon thinks that "I am torturing him." Yes?



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Govinda is another name of Kṛṣṇa. Go means cows and go means land and go means senses. There are three meanings of go. So... And vinda means pleasure*-giving. So He gives pleasure to the senses, He gives pleasure to the cows, and He gives pleasure to the land. That means whenever Kṛṣṇa appears, the land becomes very pleasing. The production, the situation, everything becomes very pleasing. So Govinda means one who gives pleasure to the senses and to the cows. Kṛṣṇa in His abode, Kṛṣṇaloka, is always busy as a cowherd's boy. Surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. He's always nursing the cows. He's always surrounded by cows. Surabhīr abhipālayantam. You see here is the picture. It is a cow. Govinda means the cowherd's boy, or one who gives pleasure to the senses. Gopāla. Go means cows and pāla means herds. So one who keeps the cowherds, that is also Gopāla. (end)





680718LE.MON

Lecture Excerpt

-

Montreal, July 18, 1968



Prabhupāda: Cloud cannot cover the sun. There may be a cloud overcast in the sky for hundred miles, but even hundred miles, is it possible to cover the sun, hundred miles cloud? The sun is itself so many hundreds of thousand times more than this earth. So māyā cannot cover the Supreme Brahman. Māyā can cover the small particles Brahman. So we may become covered by māyā or cloud, but the Supreme Brahman is never covered by māyā. That is the difference of opinion between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. The Māyāvāda philosophy says that the Supreme is covered. The Supreme cannot be covered. Then how He becomes supreme? The covering becomes supreme. Oh, there are so many arguments and so many... But we follow that the cloud covers the small particles of sunshine. But sun remains as it is. And we practically see also when we go by jet plane, we are over the cloud. There is no cloud outside. Sun is clear. In the lower status there is some cloud. If you go thousands of miles up, we don't see any cloud. Everything sunshine. Is there any question?



Devotee (1): Is the cloud in our mind or is the cloud in the sky also?



*Prabhupāda: Everything is in your mind. Yes. So you have to clear your mind. That's all. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The whole process is to clear the mind. Yes?



Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, even when the mind is cleared, does there not continue to be an objective temporary existence of material phenomena? Even when the mind is cleared, the material world still exists for so long as the (indistinct), so there's still temporary existence.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (2): So is that material principle which is manifested in beings is gone...



Prabhupāda: No. Material principle is side by side. Just like the cloud is always there in the sky, but if you be above the cloud, then it is all right. So you have to become above the material principles. And to become above the material principles means to accept everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, dovetailed with Kṛṣṇa. That will save you. You have to become above the cloud. Just like the jet plane takes the friendly sky. So we have to take the friendly energy, the spiritual energy. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā, those who are mahātmā, great souls, they take shelter of the nature where there is no more cloud. Then it is very nice. You go on. So we have to become above the cloud. Not to be influenced by the material nature, but we take shelter of Rādhārāṇī, the spiritual nature. Not of Durgā.



Devotee (2): But the cloud still exists within the mind.



*Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. The police exists, but if you are not criminal it has nothing to do with you. You are not afraid of the police. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Police has nothing to do with law*-abiding persons. Let the māyā remain there. You have nothing to do with her. Yes?



Guest: Swamijī, we always think of the pictures of Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa. There are, full of pictures, here, and also the usual pictures which you... When you think of the word "consciousness" and "life," as applied to the image of God, it seems to make sense. But how do you apply the concept of consciousness and life to a God conceived of in the terms like this image here?



Prabhupāda: Image... The image, we are not worshiping image.



Guest: No, what I meant was in the vague, abstract sense of thought, as we're talking about with Brahman...



*Prabhupāda: There are stages, stages of God realization. Brahman realization is the first realization of God. Just like if you want to go to the... If you come to the light, sunshine, your first experience is the sunshine. But if you go still further, you..., if you are able to enter into the sun planet, that is another stage. And if you can find out the predominating deity in the sun planet, that is another stage. Similarly, the Brahman means you come out of the darkness of ignorance or māyā. That is Brahman realization. But if you go further, then you realize Supersoul, Paramātmā. And if you go further, then you realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The... Just like the same example, the sunshining, sun and the sun*-god, they are one and the same. But when you are in the sunshine, you cannot say that you are seeing the sun-god. That will be mistake. But one who is in association with the sun-god, he's already in the sun planet, he is in front of the sun-god, and he is in sunshine. Is that clear? Yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Advaya-jñāna. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. Advayam, that light, is everywhere. Either sunshine or sun planet or sun-god, there is light. There is no darkness. Similarly, either you remain in the impersonal Brahman or absorbed in Paramātmā or in association with the Supreme Personality, it is all spiritual stage. But when you compare, then a person who is in direct touch with sun-god, he's far superior than the person who is in the sunlight. He cannot claim equal status. Sunlight may be possible within your room. That does not mean that you are associating with the sun-god.



*So impersonal Brahman realization is also Brahman realization. The personal Brahman realization is the highest platform. Brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll see that Kṛṣṇa says that "The impersonal Brahman is resting on Me." Ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Just like this bag is resting on this table. The table is more important than this bag. Similarly... Just like the sun planet. Although we are seeing it is just like a disk and the sunshine is overcast all over the universe, that does not mean that sunshine is more important than the sun disk. It is due to the sun disk that the sunshine is all over the universe. And if you think that sunshine is distributed all over the universe, therefore it is greater than the sun disk-no. The importance of the sun disk is more than the universally distributed sunshine. So impersonal Brahman realization is just like realization of the sunshine, but there are other stages. And the highest stage is to associate with the Supreme. Just like this picture, they are associating person to person. Another point is, as individual soul we require association, person to person. That is our nature. The Bhāgavata replies, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvad aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. If somebody thinks by simple impersonal realization of Brahman, if he thinks that he has become liberated, then his intelligence is polluted. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvad aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Aviśuddha means not free from contamination. His intelligence is not free. Why? Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32].

The same example can be given. Suppose you are taking a jet plane to go to the sun planet or moon planet, but you are in the sunshine. You are more higher above the cloud region. Cloud is after, say, a few miles up, if you go, there is no more cloud. Finished. If you go above seven miles up, there is no more clouds. There is no question of māyā. That's all right. But if you go continually, if you do not get shelter in any other planet, then the next stage will be you have to come back. You cannot remain in that impersonal sunshine. You have to take shelter. If you don't get shelter, then you come back. Similarly, the impersonalist, for the time being they may think that they have Brahman realization, but because by nature he wants association, without getting association of the Supreme Lord he has to come back to make association with this nonsense. And this is practically we have seen. Many sannyāsīs, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "Brahman is truth and the world is false." They take sannyāsa, and after some time they come to the hospital opening business. They come down again to politics, hospitals, philanthropy, welfare work. Why? If brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, if this whole world is false, why you are taking this hospital business? Because there is no place. He has no engagement and he wants association. He wants to render some service, but there is no service to Kṛṣṇa. He comes to give service to the nonsense māyā. So āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. After accepting sannyāsa and all this renunciation, because he has no shelter to render service to the Supreme Lord, he comes down to render service to this nonsense thing which he left. Mithyā, it is false. He again comes to the false. I have seen one sannyāsī in India, very learned, very good scholar. Now he's rotting in the jail. He has taken to political movement. He wants to make, nullify this Pakistan and so many things. Now he has become a politician. Vivekananda came here to preach in 1893 to Vedānta. Now he learned the business of opening hospital. If you have taken sannyāsa, that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "The world is false; Brahman is reality," then why you come to the false platform again? He has to, because he has no information of the reality. He wants to render service, but because he has not found out where to render service, he has to come to engage himself in this mithyā platform, which he has rejected as mithyā. So āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32]. Even by their austerity and penances they go so up... Just the same example. A very nice sputnik, and running 20,000 miles an hour... (end)



680720LE.MON

Lecture Excerpt

-

Montreal, July 20, 1968



*Prabhupāda: It is simply troublesome, kleśa. Kleśa means troublesome. Because they cannot concentrate. Avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ dehavadbhir avāpyate. Those who have accepted this body, for them, to think of something impersonal is simply artificial, is simply artificial. Therefore the impersonalists or the void philosophers, their process of so-called yoga is simply troublesome, and maybe some profit there, but the ultimate profit, they cannot have. It is not possible. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: [Bg. 6.47] "Of all the yogis, the one who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu..." Because that is the ultimate goal. One has to come to the point. That point, of course, one has to come ultimately, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], after many, many births. It is simply obstinacy. One who does not take to the meditation of God, or they want to meditate in something other, void or impersonal*-that is not possible; *that is simply troublesome*-so simply they are wasting time because ultimately they have come to this point of personal conception of the Supreme Lord. Bahūnāṁ janmanām, after many, many births, if they are fortunate enough to meet some real devotee, then he becomes enlightened. And vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. He then accepts Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, as everything. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such kind of great soul is very rare."



So here is an opportunity to get directly that post of great soul by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is very scientific. We can present this formula to any person who wants to understand this movement scientifically, philosophically, logically. There is no dearth of all these things in this movement. We are not sentimental at all. Of course, there must be sentiment. Without sentiment, nobody can come to the stage of ecstasy. But that sentiment is transcendental sentiment. This is not ordinary sentiment. Sentiment, when religion or any faith is devoid of philosophy and logic, then it is material sentiment. And philosophy and logic without understanding of God is simply waste of time, mental... [break] So both should be combined, religion plus philosophy. One should understand the principles of religion with philosophy and logic. We are claiming college students, university students, because we are presenting religion on the basis of philosophy and logic. We are not blindly following. We have not dogmatism. We have got reason, philosophy, and everything, science. If you want to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the basis of philosophy, logic and science, we are prepared to present to you. But the ultimate goal is to surrender unto the Supreme. So although you will find some of the students joining us, they are not very great philosopher or great scientist or great educationist, but they have accepted the reality, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are the highest yogis. They are highest yogi. Just like if somebody is offering one million dollars, one may understand it or may not understand it, what is the value of one million dollars. But if one has got that one million of dollars, then he is rich man undoubtedly. Similarly, the boys and the disciples and the followers of this movement, who are accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, oh, they have already got that millions of dollars. They are richest. They may not understand it, that what is the value of Kṛṣṇa, but because... Just like fire. If you touch knowingly or unknowingly, it is fire and it will burn your body. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then one who has taken Him, then he will derive the highest benefit undoubtedly.

Thank you very much. Any questions? [break]

Devotee: ..."the conqueror of sleep" is one of his names. How and what relation can develop greater love for Kṛṣṇa through conquering sleep?



Prabhupāda: Sleep?



Devotee: Resting.



Pradyumna: He said Arjuna's another name was Guḍākeśa.



Prabhupāda: Guḍākeśa. Guḍākeśa. Guḍākeśa means one who has conquered sleep. Sleeping means māyā, or darkness. Just like in sleeping you do not know where you are, similarly, a person who is in the darkness... Everyone is, in this material condition of life, everyone is in darkness. He does not know wherefrom he has come, what for he has come, what he has to do, and where he is going next. All these questions are darkness for him. So anyone who has conquered over this darkness, he is called guḍākeśa. So Arjuna did it. He knew, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore his another name is Guḍākeśa. Everyone is in darkness. Ask him, "What what you were in your past life? What you are going to become in your next life? Why you have come here?" "Why you have become American?" "Why you have become Indian?" "Why you are white?" "Why you are black?" "Why you are suffering?" "Why you are enjoying?" So many "whys." Ask them. They will not be able to answer. Therefore they are in darkness. So anyone who knows all these things, he is out of darkness. So try to be like Arjuna, to become out of darkness. That is the Vedic injunction. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in darkness. Just try to go to the light." This is light. Just like it is very commonsense affair that I, the soul, is eternal. I am changing my body from the very inception in the womb of my mother. And because I am changing this body, therefore I am nowhere? I am gone forever? Ask the greatest scientist. He will say like that. It is a commonsense affair. Just like a child. Because he cannot see the sun at night, he may say, "Oh, sun is gone, dead and gone." But no scientist, no intelligent man will say. "My dear child, the sun is not gone. The sun is there. I cannot see now." That is the fact. Similarly, these foolish persons, because they cannot see the soul and because the body is left there and it is destroyed, he says that there is no soul. Just see how childish and how much darkness is there. It is commonsense affair. How this body...? I am taking this body so important, the body of such and such professor, such and such scientist, such and such philosopher. But as soon as I, the soul, go away, where is the importance? If the body is important, why it becomes nonsense immediately after the departure of the soul? Therefore the soul is important. One who does not know the soul, his all activities are defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jato yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Anyone who has not inquired about the soul, because he is born ignorant, born in darkness, he does not know what is soul, what is this body, what is this world. Therefore born in darkness. So if in that darkness and ignorance he is acting so many things, what is the profit? It is simply defeat. So a person who does not inquire into the existence of soul, his real identity, all his so-called improvement is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply laboring, that's all. The whole world is doing that, beating the bush, laboring for nothing. He does not know that how long he will remain. Suppose you are in America. You are now Mr. Ford. You have constructed a very skyscraper building. But how long you shall remain in this skyscraper building? How long you shall remain American or Mr. Ford? Next life, as soon as your body is changed, then you are Mr. Dog or Mr. Cat or Mr. this or Mr. Chinaman, Mr. Indian. That means if, in my next life, I become Mr. such and such instead of Mr. Ford, then all the activities that I have done as Mr. Ford is simply waste of time. That he does not know. This is ignorance. And one who has conquered this ignorance, he is Arjuna. Is it clear?



Devotee: Thank you Prabhupāda.



Guest: Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness the knowing or the awareness of the Absolute?



*Prabhupāda: Certainly. Otherwise, why you are laboring so hard? To know yourself, know the Absolute. Three, five things. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to know perfectly well five things. What are those? God, living entity, and this material nature, the time factor, and the activities. God, the supreme controller. However you may declare there is no God, there is a supreme controller. That we have to admit. There are so many things that which does not depend on our so*-called scientific advancement of knowledge. It depends completely something else. Supreme controller. So that is God. They may call it nature, but they do not know nature, what is nature. So God, and we are living entities. We are godly. We have got the same activity. As God is the creator of the whole universe, we are also creator of some skyscraper building or a city like Montreal or New York. We may do that. But in comparison to the God's creation and my creation, there is no comparison. It is very insignificant. If you go high up on the sky, you will see this globe is just like a point. And there are millions and trillions of globes and planets like this. They are full of all opulences as you find here. So that is God's creation. In comparison to that creation, suppose if you have created a city or a skyscraper building. What is there? That is called living entity, minute; and the Lord: greatest. God is great; you are minute. Understanding of God, understanding of the living entities. Then try to understand this material nature. What is this material nature? The material nature is exactly like your body. This body is working so nicely because you, the soul, is present within this body. That is a fact. You do not know how your hairs are growing, how your nails are growing. You are claiming, "It is my hair; *it is my nail," but can you explain how it is growing? No. Similarly, the nature's work is going on wonderfully. Just like my... That is... So many things are going on wonderfully due to the presence of the spirit soul. Similarly, all this nature's work is going on so wonderfully due to the presence of God, the Supersoul. This is understanding of the material nature. Then God, living entity, material nature, and then time. Time is eternal. There is no past, present, and future. It is my calculation, according to... That is relativity. That is the modern scientific proposition by Professor Einstein. Your time and my time, he has also stated that the time factor in the higher planets are different. In the higher planet the time factor*-our six months makes their one day. Just like our so many yugas makes twelve hours of Brahmā. So time is according to the different object. But time is eternal. Actually, there is no past, present, future, or limitation. This is understanding of time. So God, living entity, material nature, time, and the activities. What are these activities? The activities are not eternal; *they are temporary. You have got this temporary American body. You are thinking American. You are busy twenty*-four hours as American. I am Indian. Or these boys... The boy's activities are different, the woman's activities are different, man's activities are different, the Russian's activities are different, and American's activities, different. All different activities. So therefore activities are temporary. Temporary, according to the time, according to the atmosphere, according to the body, the activities are... Just like the dog, unnecessarily running this side, this side. He thinks that "I am very busy." He is very busy. He is businessman. But you are calling, "A nonsense dog is running here and there." Similarly, all these activities by your motorcar, they may think it is very important, but those who are in higher status, they are thinking like dog is going this side, that side, this side, that side. So the activities are temporary.



*So we have to find out our eternal life, our eternal activities, our eternal place, and eternal bliss. Those things are explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā and further explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And that is, we are moving as Kṛṣṇa consciousness... [break] A sane man should take very serious view of this movement and it should be pushed all over the world. Otherwise you remain in darkness. You never become guḍākeśa. You remain in guḍāka. Never īśa. Guḍāka-īśa, guḍākeśa. Guḍāka means darkness, and īśa means master. So you remain in guḍāka, but not guḍākeśa. So if you want to become guḍākeśa, master of this ignorance, then surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You'll get it.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



"It is very difficult to surmount this darkness of ignorance, but anyone who surrenders unto Me, he immediately surmounts."



So this is the greatest service to the human society, to get out them from the darkness of ignorance. That is the greatest gift. If you put him into the darkness... Suppose a man is suffering from disease and he is asking, "Sir, I am very hungry. Give me some food." If you give him some rasagullā or some very nice foodstuff, neither he cannot eat, neither he can enjoy. And by supplying such things you are making him more and more diseased. You have to cure the disease. Then give him. That's right. So there is no curing process. Simply sense gratification. I want to satisfy my senses, and if somebody talks about my sense gratification, oh, I receive him very nicely. You see? And as soon as one says that "You are diseased. You cannot satisfy your senses without restriction. Then you will continue your disease," "Oh, this is not good. This doctor is not good." This is going on. You want to be cheated; *therefore there are..., so many cheaters are coming. Just like this Maharishi came. "Yes, enjoy your senses. Enjoy. Simply pay me thirty*-five dollars. I give you some mantra." People gave him thousand, millions of dollars, and at the end both of them became dissatisfied. He said, "It is failure," and who were followers, they left him. So what is the use of? Don't try to be cheated. If you want to be cheated, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some cheater. And if you want to be really profited, if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa... (end)



680727LE.MON

Lecture Excerpt

-

Montreal, July 27, 1968



Prabhupāda:



*...caitanya prabhu*-nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



*pañca*-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ

*bhakta*-rūpa svarūpakam

bhaktāvatāraṁ bhaktākhyaṁ

namāmi bhakta-śaktikam



*So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is full representation of Kṛṣṇa in six aspects. That is... In the beginning of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it has been explained, vande 'haṁ gurūn īśam īśāvatārakān īśa-bhaktān [Cc. Ādi 1.1], prakāśāṁś ca tac-chaktīḥ, like that. So the Supreme Personality of Godhead is principally not divided, but He is understood under six primary features. The primary, first feature is guru, because guru gives the initiation to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That feature is represented by Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. He is the original guru feature, and He is first manifested expansion of Kṛṣṇa.



*There is a prayer of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura in which it has been established that vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei, balarāma haila nitāi. Vrajendra-nandana means Kṛṣṇa, the son of Mahārāja Nanda. Mahārāja Nanda was very rich man. He had ninety hundred thousand of cows. Formerly people were considered rich by possession of cows and grains*-not by paper. (laughter) At the present moment, we have got bunch of paper. As soon as the particular government is finished, we are all..., we shall be finished. You simply... Just like in Germany it happened. The mark was selling like anything. You see? So these are not money. Actually money means... Either you say livestock or grain stock, that is money. So in Sanskrit literature we find dhānyena dhanavān. One who has got large quantity of paddy, rich, he is rich man. Still in India, in villages, when a daughter is to be offered to a particular house, it is inquired, "How much stock of grains that family has got?" They do not inquire, "How much stock exchange he has got in the bank?" No. But factually, if you have got grains at your home, then there is no question of economic problem. If you have simply got grains and cow, then you won't have to go other place. You are... That was the basic principle of civilization, that you possess some cows and some land so that you can produce foodstuff. That's all. Your whole economic problem is solved. You see?

*So therefore so much stress is given for cow protection. Amongst the division of society, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas and the śūdras... Śūdras means non*-Aryan. And Aryans, they are divided into three higher castes. Caste means according to profession and quality. That is caste. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. That is factual everywhere. If you have got the quality and if you are working... (end)



680728SP.MON

Speech to Indian Audience

-

Montreal, July 28, 1968



*Prabhupāda: ...vijayate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Lord Caitanya instructed this verse. He gave us eight verses, known as Śikṣāṣṭaka. Śikṣa means "instructions"; *aṣṭaka, "eight." This Śikṣāṣṭaka poetry, containing eight verses, are very valuable, and they were given by Lord Caitanya for understanding of the whole human society. It was not meant for any particular country or particular society, but it was meant for the whole human race. Lord Caitanya entrusted His countrymen, who are known as Bhāratīyas, to distribute this message througho ut the whole world, in every village and every town. There is a nice Bengali verse in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta:



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



The Lord predicted that "As many towns and villages are there on the surface of the world, everywhere this message will be known." And He also said,



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*He entrusted his countrymen*-means any Indians. Not that because He appeared in Bengal it was entrusted to the Bengalis, but He said that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra: "on the land of Bhārata-varṣa." India is known as Bhārata-varṣa. Perhaps most of you know it. This is after the name of King Bhārata. There was a great king, Bhārata, who was the emperor of the world, and this planet was named Bhārata-varṣa after his name. Before that this planet was known as Ilāvṛta-varṣa. And after Mahārāja Bhārata, this planet was named as Bhārata-varṣa. But gradually, there was partition. As recently also there has been partition of India-Hindustan and Pakistan-similarly, this planet, known as Bhārata-varṣa, was partitioned gradually, one after another. So then the other names-Europe, Africa, or America, or Germany-these names gradually developed. Actually the whole planet was known as Bhārata-varṣa. That we understand from the Vedic history. And there was one king. That king also belonged to Hastināpura, which is called at the present moment New Delhi, near about that.



*So anyway, Lord Caitanya entrusted to spread this message to the Indians. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. There are many kinds of living entities. There are men, there are animals, there are birds, beasts, trees, aquatics*-all of them are living entities. But He is entrusting to the manuṣya. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra. "One who has taken his birth as human being, Indian human being, to him I am entrusting this message, that this should be distributed all over the world in villages, in towns, this message." So I am especially speaking to the Indians present here, that you have got a responsibility on behalf of Lord Caitanya. If you believe in our śāstras, in our ācāryas, then those who are present here as Indians, I will request them to take this responsibility of spreading the... (aside:) This is disturbing. ...this message of Lord Caitanya all over the world. And He said, bhārata-bhumite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. Janma sārthaka kari means "First of all make your life successful." You cannot distribute this transcendental message without making your life successful. Janma sārthaka kari. That means persons who are born in India, they have got the facility for making life successful. How? Because there is immense treasure-house of transcendental knowledge in India. It is known to everyone, in every part of the world. Unfortunately, we Indians, we do not know the value of our spiritual treasure-house. I have got one German Godbrother. He was formerly known as Mr. Hans Sulyea(?). He is now Sadānanda Swami. He is living in Sweden. And one of his disciples, Vāmana-datta... What is his German name?

Devotee: Dr. Eisen (?).



Prabhupāda: Yes. He has written a very nice authorized book on Lord Caitanya in German language, and it is very big book, paperback, five hundred pages. It is approved by the Sweden University, and he has sent me. So even a German gentleman, he is taking so much interest. And this Mr. Sulyea, he told me long, about forty years before... At that time I was also householder. So he told me that "If some student come to Europe and then come to Germany, first of all we try to test him, how much he has got his original cultural knowledge." He said that "If we find that this boy, the student, knows something of Indian original cultural life, then we welcome him. Otherwise we reject him."



*So we Indians, we should know that we cannot imitate the Western countries. They are far advanced. So far materialistic way of life is concerned, you cannot compete with them. Just like some years before there was industrial exhibition in India in which the government was very proud to show that they are manufacturing cycle and sewing machine. When Western part of the world, they are manufacturing so many complicated machineries, we are proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine. Similarly, in every respect... In medicine also, there are so many laboratories in India, but still, seventy*-five percent of the medicines are imported from foreign countries, because they are lagging behind. So my point is that in every country, in every human society, there is a special qualification. The day before yesterday I was seeing one picture in that church, of Hardwar. Millions of people assembled there for taking bath in the Ganges. In 1958 there was a special fair in Jagannātha Purī. It was written in the almanac that on that particular day, if somebody takes bath in the sea and has an audience of Lord Jagannātha, then he will be liberated. I was also there and with other friends. You'll be surprised to know that for a few-hour visit, about six million people assembled from all parts of India. And government had to make a special arrangement for their taking bath in the sea and visiting the temple. Similarly, there is Kumbha-melā. These assemblies are not advertised. People know it by paramparā. I am speaking to you; *you are speaking to your friend. In this way they know it, and on that particular day they assemble at a place, just like Prayāga, on the confluence of Ganga and Yamunā. Millions of people will assemble. So still, in spite of our present leaders' policy to completely eradicate all religious ideas... They have made secular state. But people are so born that naturally they are inclined to take part in spiritual movement. That is the nature. Therefore Lord Caitanya said that bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. To take one's birth in the land of India, to take one's birth as human being, is great opportunity undoubtedly. But still more great opportunity is there who has taken his birth in India. We are... We must be proud, provided we do not forget our own Vedic culture.

*Unfortunately, the present policy is that students are being taught to forget their old Vedic culture and try to imitate the Westernized way of life, industrial life, technical life. That is being encouraged. But here I find that the young men and young girls and boys, both, they are very much interested about Indian original culture of spiritual life. Recently, you know, some yogi came, and he simply bluffed so many people that "If you pay me thirty*-five dollars, I will give you one personal mantra, and you will be in transcendental life," or so many things. So thousands and thousands of European boys and girls, as well as in America, they flocked together, but later on, they were frustrated. That means while the Indian youths are coming to the Western countries for advancement of technological knowledge, the Western boys and girls, they are hankering after spiritual life. This I have very particularly studied. I am here, not in Canada, in America. I came here in 1965, and I am studying the mind of the younger generation especially. They are hankering after something, spiritual enlightenment, not only in America, also in Europe. And they expect something from India because... It is a fact. I have read one book written by one Chinese gentleman. That book is recommended in the New York University for study. That Chinese gentleman is very learned man. He has given comparative studies of all religion and philosophies, but he recommends that "If you want to study religion as it is, then you have to go to India." So our Indian spiritual culture is still adored and worshiped by the learned section of every part of the world. And especially in America and Germany and England, they are hankering after it. We should be little careful that this knowledge, transcendental knowledge, as distributed by Lord Caitanya, should be seriously taken up by the responsible Indians present here. Unfortunately, I see that Indians are not very much interested, but that is our misfortune. Actually, Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted this mission that anyone who has taken birth as human being on the land of Bhārata-varṣa should learn this spiritual science very seriously, make his life successful, and distribute all over the world so that people of the world may become happy. That was His mission. Now, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started on this mission, on the mission of Lord Caitanya, that to distribute,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*That in this age of Kali there are many differences of opinion for self*-realization, or transcendental life, or religious life, but this common formula, chanting of the holy name of God, can be accepted by everyone.



Unfortunately, people in the present age, they think that God is dead. And what is the use of chanting something, somebody who is dead, chanting the holy name of God, who is already dead? The other day I was speaking in the church that God is not dead. God cannot be dead. Neither you or me cannot be dead. There is living symptom in your body, and there is living symptom in the cosmic manifestation also. Just try to understand what is God. Then place your verdict, whether God is dead or not. How God can be dead? Just like when a man is lying on the floor, if his vital condition, his pulses, his heart is going on, then how you can say that that man is dead? Similarly, if you study the cosmic manifestation... Of course, it is a subject matter to be learned very scrutinizingly with calm head, that as your body is functioning nicely by physiological arrangement, similarly, the body of the cosmic nature, by physical arrangement it is also moving nicely. Therefore, so long your bodily functions are going on nicely, you are not dead. Similarly, the Supreme Soul is also not dead because by the symptom of His gigantic body, universal body, we see that everything is nicely going on. So God is not dead. This is a statement of the crazy fellow. God is not dead; neither we are dead. Now, we, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, our function is just to serve the Supreme. This example of body I have said many times in this class, that as the part and parcel of your body, namely the hands, the legs, the eyes, the ears, they are meant for serving the whole body, similarly we, being part and parcel of the Supreme Whole, we are also meant for serving the Supreme Whole. So God is not dead; we are also not dead. We shall be dead when we cease to function as part and parcel of the Supreme Whole. That is our death.

*It is very nicely analyzed in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād

*ātma*-prabhavam īśvaram

na bhajanty avajānanty

sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ



*Now, just like this finger or this hand is grown from this body, similarly, the different parts of human social body is also born out of the whole body of universal body of God. They analyze that the intelligent class of men, they are born of the mouth of the universal form of God. The administrative class of men, they are born out of the arms of the universal form of God. The mercantile class of men, they are born out of the abdomen of the universal form of God. And the laborer class of men, they are born out of the legs of the universal form of God. Now, so far the body is concerned, either the mouth or head or the legs, no part of the body is less important, because every part of the body is required for proper function of the body. But by comparative study, the head is most important than all other parts of the body. If head is cut off from the body, then body becomes immediately dead. But if your hand is cut off from the body, the body still remains alive. It is not dead. So the intelligent class of men who form the head of the society, if they are lacking, if there is no intelligent class of men, then it is to be considered that sort of human society is dead, because the head is not there. Similarly, at the present moment there is lack of intelligent class of men. Intelligent class of men... Who is intelligent class of men? There are so many intelligent class of men. So according to Bhagavad*-gītā, intelligent class of men can be tested by some qualification. What is that? Satya śaucaṁ samaḥ damaḥ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Intelligent class of men means... First qualification is that he must be truthful. Then satya, śaucam. He must be always clean. Bahyābhyantaram: he must be clean without and within. "Without" means..., on the external body, cleanliness means soap and water. But inside cleanliness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ. Satya, śaucam and śamam, controlling the mind, and damam, controlling the senses. Then ārjavam, simplicity; and titikṣa, tolerance; jñānam, full knowledge; vijñānam, practical application of the knowledge; and āstikyam, and full faith in God. They are called intelligent class of men.



Now, if you put to this test of intelligent class of men, hardly you will find one in thousand or one in million. Therefore the present social structure is practically without any intelligent class of men, or without any head. At the present moment the whole society is going on by manufacturing some schemes that "This scheme will be successful for the proper execution of our human activities." But another man gives you another plan. Therefore in the political world there are so many "isms," and they are fighting with one another. That means there is no standard intelligence. I differ from you; *you differ from me. Now, nobody knows who is intelligent. So by this analytical study we can understand that at the present moment there is need of intelligent class of men. Not that everyone should be intelligent, but even a small percentage of people, if they become intelligent, with these qualifications*-truthful, clean, and controlling the mind, controlling the senses, simplicity in behavior, and tolerance, knowledge, application of knowledge in practical life, and full faith in God... That, these nine symptoms, brahma-karma svabhāva-jam... [Bg. 18.42]. The intelligent class of men is called brāhmaṇa, according to Vedic literature. And the next class, the administrative class, is called kṣatriyas, and the next class is called the vaiśyas, and the general class of men is called the śūdras. So even in that, according to Vedic literature, it is said that kalau śūdra sambhava. In this age, practically all men are on the standard of śūdra category. Kalau śūdra sambhava. So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is started so that even one is born a śūdra by qualification, he can be raised to the standard of the highest intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa, by pāñcarātrikī-viddhi. By pāñcarātrikī-viddhi it is said that it doesn't matter what a man is, but if he is trained up by dīkṣā process, tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām... Dvijatvam means twice-born. Twice-born, they are, the brāhmaṇas are twice-born, the kṣatriyas are twice-born, and the vaiśyas are... That means higher class of men, they are called twice-born. Why twice-born? Because one birth is made by father and mother and the next birth is made by Vedic knowledge and spiritual master. This is the system. So nobody is born brāhmaṇa or intelligent class of men, but by cultivation of knowledge, by practice, by good association, one can come to the higher standard of life. And when one is on the platform of goodness, then one has to transcend that platform of goodness and come to the platform of pure goodness. In the material world, even a man is supposed to be very good man, there is possibility of his being affected by the modes of passion and ignorance. But in the transcendental platform, which is called viśuddha-sattva, pure goodness, there is no possibility of interaction of these three qualities of material nature, namely goodness, passion, and ignorance.

*The Bhagavad*-gītā concludes, therefore,

yo mām avyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*If anyone engages himself fully and seriously in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa... Yo mām avyabhicāreṇa bhakti*-yogena. Avyabhicāriṇi means without any deviation, firmly fixed up. And bhakti-yogena, in devotional service, if one is engaged, sa, that person, guṇān... Guṇān means these three qualities: passion, ignorance, and goodness. Sa guṇān samatītya. Samatītya means completely transcending. He transcends completely. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. He becomes situated on the platform of Brahman, and that is the highest perfection of knowledge. Now we are identifying ourself that "I am part of this material world. I am part of this land or that land." "I am Indian because I am born in India." "I am American because I am born in America." Everyone is thinking like that. That means "I am part and parcel of this material world." But by this transcendental elevation to the platform of Brahman, when one becomes self-realized or understands himself as part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], "All these living entities are My part and parcels," similarly, when the living entities in highest perfection understand that he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Brahman, his life is on the transcendental platform.



*So that transcendental platform is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as one is situated in that Brahman platform, he is free from all anxieties immediately. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains that brahma-bhūtaḥ situation, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Immediately. So the brahma-bhūtaḥ platform, which we have to ascend after so much qualification, so much understanding, so much practice of yoga, dhyāna, meditation, can be achieved in this age by the blessings of Lord Caitanya simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simply by chanting. Caitanya Mahāprabhu... As I have explained, that one has to lift himself to the platform of brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, when one is free from all anxieties. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam*-what is the gain? The first gain is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing of the heart. What is that cleansing? That I am thinking at the present moment in my material concept of life that "I am part and parcel of this matter." And when we come to the understanding that "I have nothing to do with this matter; *I am accidentally in contact with the matter, but my real position is that I am spirit soul, brahma*-bhūtaḥ..." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahma. Lord Śaṅkarācārya, he preached this philosophy, that... Just try to understand, but don't try to misunderstand. Unfortunately, this understanding that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, people are misunderstanding that "I am God." He is not... Nobody can be God. God is supreme. God is great. We are very small. If I am God, if I am great, then how I have come to this position? How I have fallen from my brahma-bhūtaḥ stage? That is not actually understanding. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, means "I am part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman." This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā and every Vedic literature, that the living entities are just like sparks of the fire, just like there is big fire and there are sparks also, small particle of fire. That small particle of fire is also fire, but it is not as big as the big fire. Similarly, in quality we are as good as Brahman, but in quantity we are minute, infinitesimal, and He is infinite. That is the difference.

*So this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, supported by the movement of Lord Caitanya, chanting the holy name of Hare Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to push on in this part of the world, in pursuance of the order of Lord Caitanya, that pṛthivīte ache yata nagaradi grāma. So I'll request Indian ladies and gentlemen who are present here to join this movement. This is your duty. Because you are Indian, you have got this duty. If you forget your duty, then you are forgetting your identity. So my special request in this meeting is for the Indian ladies and gentlemen to support this temple, and by supporting this temple, to support this movement. It is good not only for the Indians*-for everyone. It is no sectarian religion. It is completely scientific and philosophical. Everyone can accept it, not dogmatically, but with reason and argument. And you can practically see that all my students, none of them are Indians. Until now, they are all American. They are educated, they are intelligent. They are trying to understand it with all logic and philosophy, and when they understand it nicely, they take to it very seriously. So my request is that this is a very nice movement. Everyone, either Indian, American or Canadian, should take part in it and encourage us.

Thank you very much. (end)



680823LE.MON

Lecture Excerpt

-

Montreal, August 23, 1968



*Prabhupāda: So to love Kṛṣṇa we don't require anything. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is open for everyone, but we should learn to sacrifice for Kṛṣṇa. That is the sign of love. Yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi yaj juhoṣ [Bg. 9.27]i. If you... You are eating. If you simply decide that "I shall not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa," then Kṛṣṇa will understand, "Oh, here is a devotee." "I shall not see anything except Kṛṣṇa's beauty." Kṛṣṇa can understand. "I shall not hear anything except Hare Kṛṣṇa and topics on Kṛṣṇa..." These things are there. It does not require that you become very wealthy, very beautiful, or very learned. You have to decide that "I shall not do this without Kṛṣṇa. I shall not do this without Kṛṣṇa. I shall not mix with any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. I shall not talk anything which does not speak about Kṛṣṇa." So your... "I shall not go anywhere except Kṛṣṇa's temple. I shall not engage my hands in anything except Kṛṣṇa's business." In this way, if you train your activities, then you love Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is purchased*-simply by your determination. Kṛṣṇa does not require anything from you. Simply He wants to know whether you have decided to love Kṛṣṇa. That's all.



*Ahaituky apratihatā. Ahaituky apratihatā means it is not dependent on anything. You can yourself automatically, by whatever asset you have got*-thinking, feeling, walking, eating, sleeping-whatever you have got. By such things, by using those things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can purchase Kṛṣṇa. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You haven't got to acquire something extra for loving Kṛṣṇa or purchasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa becomes purchased. Therefore... Kṛṣṇa cannot be purchased. His name is Ajita. He cannot be conquered, but His devotee can purchase Him, can conquer Him. Just like you have seen the pictures in our Back to Godhead about Bhīṣma, that it was just joking, but he knew that "Arjuna cannot be killed because he is very dear friend of Kṛṣṇa. So these people are requesting me to kill Arjuna. So I shall show my capacity of fighting." And actually Arjuna became perplexed. Bhīṣma wanted to see that Kṛṣṇa shall have to break His promise for His devotee. "I know I shall not be able to kill Arjuna, but at least I shall see that Kṛṣṇa has broken His promise." So Kṛṣṇa actually did not break His promise. He did not accept any weapon, but He simply showed Bhīṣma that "I have come to kill you with this wheel of the chariot." His sudarśana-cakra is different. These are the reciprocation. Kṛṣṇa can do anything for His devotee. Personally He may be very severe, but for devotee He can do anything. That means devotee can purchase by his devotion. (end)



680914LE.SF

Lecture Excerpt

-

San Francisco, September 14, 1968



*Prabhupāda: So we have to continue this chanting, either imperfectional stage or in the perfectional stage. Satatām kīrtayanto mām [Bg. 9.14]. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, you will see that this kīrtana is recommended continuously. Satatam. Satatam means always. Either in the imperfect stage or in the perfect stage, the process is one. It is not like the Māyāvādīs, that first of all you chant, and by chanting, when you become yourself God, then there is no chanting-stop. This is Māyāvāda philosophy. This is not real, the position. Chanting will continue even in your highest perfectional stage. But that chanting and at the present moment chanting, there is little difference. Yes.



Upendra: Swamijī, if our rasa with Kṛṣṇa is eternal, and we want to have the rasa of lover with Kṛṣṇa, is it possible to change? If our rasa is like father to son, we can never become lover?



Prabhupāda: No. You have got eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That cannot be changed. You're constitutionally in position, in a certain position. Either you have got... But every relationship is spiritual and nice. If you have got that inclination that you want to be Kṛṣṇa's lover, then that means originally you are already in relationship with Kṛṣṇa in that stage. That will be revealed when you are in perfectional devotional stage.



Devotee: Swamijī, the other night you said that one who uses his body for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa, then his body becomes spiritual. How then is the body still subject to change?



*Prabhupāda: Spiritual in the sense... Just like... This example also I have given several times. Just like you put an iron rod in the fire. When it becomes warmer, warmer, red hot, it is fire. It is no longer iron. Similarly, when you are completely absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and service, you are completely spiritual. Your material activities... Because your material activities have stopped, therefore your body is no longer material. Materialism means... Just try to understand. Material..., what is materialism and spiritualism. Materialism means sense gratification, and spiritualism means to love God. That's all. Personal sense gratification. Here the relationship is just like a girl or a boy. The so*-called love is temporary. That's all. There is no love. As soon as there is some discrepancy of sense gratification, oh, there is separation. There is divorce. There is separation. Because the so-called love is based on sense gratification. That is materialism. And when there is no sense gratification, the satisfaction of the lover only, that is spiritualism. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when your business will be only to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then you must know that your senses and your body have become spiritualized. Actually, in higher platform, there is nothing material thing. Higher platform means when a person sees nothing but Kṛṣṇa as everything. Even himself, he's also Kṛṣṇa. (end)





680925LE.SEA

Lecture on *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*

-

Seattle, September 25, 1968



*(kīrtana, prema*-dhvanī)

*Prabhupāda: (chants:) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*So we are worshiping govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ. Ādi-puruṣam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original. You have to find out the original. That is called philosophy. Philosophy means searching out the original. Darśana. In Sanskrit word it is called darśana, to see the original, to find out the original. So the original information is given by Vedānta-sūtra. What is that origin? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should be inquisitive to understand about the origin. That is the chance in this human form of life. We do not know the origin. The scientists, they explain, "Perhaps," "Like this; *it was like this," 'Perhaps," "It might be like this." That is not explanation. So the direct explanation is..., very nice explanation is given by the Vedānta*-sūtra what is that origin. The Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The origin is that from which everything is born. That is the origin. Now we have to find out what is that thing from whom everything is born. That is Kṛṣṇa. The great sages, they have searched out what is that origin. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam means the cause of all causes. They have searched out. Scientifically they have searched out that Kṛṣṇa is the origin.



*In Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also it is described, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There may be different kinds of Bhagavān, or the Personality of Godhead. Not different kinds, but different expansion, extension. But Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. The expansion of Kṛṣṇa may be understood just like a person. He is, at home, a father, a husband, like that, and when he's office, he's boss, or when he's clerk, he's secretary. In this way, a man may be in different position, in different circumstances, but the man is the same. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the original Personality of Godhead, might have assumed the form of Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, Govinda, so many. But this original form is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also Kṛṣṇa explains Himself, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everyone." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Everything emanates from Me, all the energies." Just like from the sun globe the energies are coming out incessantly just like flows of water, and everything is being created in this material world through the sunshine, similarly, the shining principle which is emanating from Kṛṣṇa, which is known as brahmajyoti, is the origin of everything. So kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].

*So this Kṛṣṇa science is a very great science, and Bhagavad*-gītā explains this Kṛṣṇa science very nicely, the origin of everything. And we should take advantage of this great book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. It is already known in your country, Bhagavad-gītā. There are many editions, but unfortunately, sometimes Bhagavad-gītā is misinterpreted and people are misled to understand the origin. Therefore we have the opportunity to publish the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We have entrusted the matter to Messrs. Macmillan Company. They are going to publish the book next month. So try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is without any interpretation. Then you will understand the origin.

*So the process of understanding Bhagavad*-gītā is very nicely stated in the Bhagavad-gītā itself. And in our disciplic succession the Ṣaḍ-gosvāmī, the six Gosvāmīns, of whom I offered a prayer in the beginning, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau... So we are publishing another book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So the printing is complete. That book also will come next month. So I shall request some of you to read the teachings to Lord..., teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī. Will somebody come here? You'll read? Yes. Sit down there.

Girl: Right here?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Open page number twenty*-nine. What is that, heading?



Girl: "Teachings to Sanātana Gosvāmī."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Read it.



Girl: "In the instructions of Lord Caitanya to Sanātana Gosvāmī we can understand the science of God in the matter of His transcendental form, His opulences, and His devotional service, where everything is being described to Sanātana Gosvāmī by the Lord Himself. By that time Sanātana fell at the feet of the Lord and in great humility asked about his own real identity."



Prabhupāda: Read little slowly so that..., and loudly, so that others can hear.



Girl: "He spoke as follows. 'I am born of a lower family. My associations are all abominable and I am fallen. The most wretched of mankind, I was suffering in the dark well of material enjoyment, and I never knew the actual goal of my life. I do not know what is beneficial to me. Although in the mundane sphere I am what is known as a great learned man, I am in fact so much of a fool that I even accept that I am learned.' "



Prabhupāda: "I am...? I am so much fool that I accept...?" What is that?



Girl: "...that I am learned."



Prabhupāda: "I am learned." Now, this Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was formerly known as Dabira Khāsa. He was born in a high aristocratic family, brāhmaṇa family, and he was finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then Bengal governor of Bengal. It is about five hundred years ago India was governed by the Pathans, Muslims, and in Bengal the governor was known as Nawab Hussain Shah. Under his government this Dabira Khāsa was minister of finance, and his brother also, Sākara Mallika, he was also a departmental minister. So both the brothers were in very high position. They were great scholar in Sanskrit and Parsi, Urdu. Parsi, Urdu, you know the language spoken in Arabia, in that part of the world. So they were very good scholar and born in very aristocratic family and associated with rich men, aristocratic persons. Because they were ministers, no ordinary person could mix with them. So that was their position. And when they met Lord Caitanya, they decided to retire from the service and propagate the movement of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he resigned from the service. The Nawab was very much sorry. He did not like that he should resign from the service because the Nawab was so much dependent on his good service. But he decided that "I must resign." So some way or other he got rid of the service and approached Lord Caitanya in a very humble way. Now he's presenting himself before Lord Caitanya that "I am very low born, and my association is abominable. And people call me a very learned man, and I also accept that I am very learned man. But actually, I am not, because I do not know what I am." It is very nice picture, you see? In the *Vedas* the injunction is that if anyone wants to understand the transcendental science, he must approach to a bona fide person or a spiritual master in such humbleness as Sanātana Gosvāmī is approaching. He is born of a very high aristocratic family, but he says that "I am born very low." He's very learned man, but he says that "People say me learned man, but actually I am not." Just the position. So why he's saying that? That will be explained. Because actual learning means to know oneself. That is real knowledge. This knowledge that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am born of this family," "I am father of this person," "husband of that lady," and this and that, so many designations, that is not real knowledge. Real knowledge is to know oneself. That is being taught by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I do not know what I am. I am simply identifying myself with this body. That is not real knowledge." He's presenting in that way. Read next.



Girl: "You have accepted me as Your servant and You have delivered me from the entanglement of material life. Now You can tell me what my duty is in this liberated state of life."



Prabhupāda: Now he, he was a minister. Now he thinks that after resigning this service he's feeling liberated. Because he hasn't got to obey somebody who is a materialistic person, therefore he's thinking liberated. And he's asking Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whom he has accepted as his master, "Now You have liberated me. Now You can say what is my duty." Go on.



Girl: "In other words, as we see by this plea, liberation is not the final word in perfection."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is one point. He says that "You have liberated me. Now let me know what is my duty." This is very important point. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that liberation is the ultimate goal. Just like in Buddha philosophy, the nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means annihilation of material existence. Nirvāṇa. They think that as soon as there is annihilation of this material existence, that is the final goal. The Māyāvādī philosopher or the impersonalist, they think that not only to get freedom from this material existence, but to remain in spiritual status, jñānam, simply in the knowledge that "I am spirit soul. I am merged into the spirit soul," that is their goal. But here, the Sanātana Gosvāmī, he belongs to the Vaiṣṇava philosophy. He says, "Now what is my duty?" That means after liberation it is not that everything is void or activity is stopped. No. Actually activity begins after liberation. At the present moment our activities are not liberated activities. At the present moment all our activities are conditional, but actually I am not... Because I am spirit soul, therefore I'm not under material condition. But somehow or other, I am now put into material conditions. This is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When one is actually liberated, brahma-bhūtaḥ, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. When one is not liberated he's called jīva-bhūtaḥ. Just like we are, ordinary living entities, we are under designations, and in the concept of this body, we are thinking everything. But actually I am not this body. I am not matter. I am a spirit soul. When this understanding comes, that is the point of liberation. And after that liberation, actual duty begins. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā also.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



Liberation means there is no more anxiety. In the conditioned state we are always full of anxiety, and the liberated state... Just like when a man is attacked with fever, he's always suffering. As soon as the fever is gone, he is liberated. Similarly, the material concept of life, when we are freed from the material concept of life, that is the beginning of our liberation. Actually, liberation will be maintained by liberated activities. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a man is suffering from some disease, so he cannot act freely. But when he is out of the disease, then he can act freely. To get out of the disease does not mean that there will be no activity. The Buddha philosophy and the Māyāvāda philosophy say that after liberation, activity stops. But this Vaiṣṇava philosophy says no. After liberation real activity begins. Go on.



Girl: "There must be activities in liberation. Sanātana clearly asks, 'You have saved me from the entanglement of material existence. Now after liberation what is my duty? Kindly explain it to me.' Sanātana further inquired, 'Who am I? Why are the threefold miseries always giving me trouble? And finally, tell me how I will be relieved from this material entanglement.' "



*Prabhupāda: Now here is another question, that when... Our inquiries should be how to get out of the threefold miseries. In the conditioned state... Just like an animal. Animal is always suffering. That is a fact. Everyone knows. In the lower grade of life than human being, every animal is always under very strict condition. Why? What is the difference between civilization and not civilization? The difference is that their life is most conditional life. In the civilized life there is a pinch of liberation. So what is that statement? Yes. Threefold miseries. Threefold miseries are there in every living condition, but when a man is enhanced or advanced in knowledge he can understand that "I am under always threefold miseries." What are those threefold miseries? Miseries, that I explained the other day. The threefold miseries means first, pertaining to the body and mind, and second, miseries inflicted by other living entities, and miseries by nature or higher authorities. Just like severe cold or severe heat or famine or earthquake. They are also miseries. This is beyond our control. So miseries which are beyond our control. So far bodily disease, mental disturbance, we can get some remedy in our own way. We can go to a psychiatrist or we can go to a doctor and get some medicine and get relief. And so far miseries from other living entities, we can take protection, we can defend ourself. But so far miseries offered by the demigods, daiva, there is no remedy. If there is all of a sudden here earthquake, oh, there is no remedy. You have to suffer. If there is, all of a sudden, there is inundation, you cannot. If there is, all of a sudden, there is thunderbolt, you cannot make any remedy. So threefold miseries are always there, either one or two or three. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is presenting himself that "People call me very learned man, but I am so learned that I do not know why I am suffering from these threefold miseries." These question do not arise. Actually, when people will come to the understanding, when they will inquire that "Why I am suffering from the threefold miseries...?" The threefold miseries is summarized in Bhagavad*-gītā by four principles: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. If a man is actually learned and intelligent, he should always see before him that there are four kinds of distresses. What is that? The distress of taking birth, the distress of dying procedure, janma-mṛtyu, and distress of old age, and distress of diseases. So we are very much proud of our advancement of knowledge, but actually there is no solution for these four principles of miseries. There is no remedy. They are trying to control birth rate, janma, but still, every minute there are increasing, the population of the world is increasing. Similarly, they are trying to save people from death, but still, people are dying in hundreds and thousands. And they are trying to get out of this old age. So many medicines, so many cosmetics, but old age is taking place. And so far disease, we can discover many high-grade medicines, but there is no stoppage of disease. So one should be very intelligent that there is no remedy for these four kinds of miseries, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. And a learned man should be inquisitive, "If there is any remedy?" So Sanātana Gosvāmī is presenting himself before Lord Caitanya, that "People say that I am very learned man. But I am so learned man that I do not know what I am and why I am suffering from these miseries although I do not like to suffer." Go on.



Girl: " 'I do not know how to question You about the advancement of spiritual life, but I beg that You kindly, mercifully, let me know everything that I should know.' This is the process of acceptance of a spiritual master by the disciple. One should approach a spiritual master and humbly submit to him and then inquire from him about one's spiritual progress. The Lord was pleased by Sanātana's submissive behavior, and He replied as follows. 'You have already received benediction from Lord Kṛṣṇa.' "



*Prabhupāda: Here... Here is another point, that Sanātana Gosvāmī approached his spiritual master, Lord Caitanya, and he submitted himself in such a way that his spiritual master, Lord Caitanya, was very pleased. So that should be the point of disciples, how to please the spiritual master. And Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, he has composed eight stanzas as prayers of spiritual master. And in the seventh stanza he says, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. If you can please your spiritual master, then you know that God, or Kṛṣṇa, is pleased. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyaprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. And if you cannot please your spiritual master, then you must know that you do not know your whereabouts. You do not know where you are going. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was actually following the disciplic principles. He wanted to please Lord Caitanya submissively. To please the spiritual master means to approach him submissively, not in a challenging mood. The Bhagavad-gītā also explains in this way:



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti jñānina

*tad jñānaṁ tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Tad viddhi praṇipātena. If you want to understand the spiritual science, then you have to approach to a person where you can completely surrender yourself. Because everyone is proud: "Oh, who can teach me? Why shall I go to a spiritual master? I know everything." That is the general mentality. Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā gives us direction that you should go to a person where you can fully surrender. So you have to find out a bona fide spiritual master where you can surrender your pride. Then tad viddhi praṇipātena. Praṇiptena means surrender. Paripraśnena. If you find out such, if you are fortunate enough to find out some person where you can surrender, then you can put questions before him. That Sanātana Gosvāmī is putting, that "What is my position? I think that I am very learned man, I am born of very aristocratic family and so on, so on, but actually, I do not know what I am. What is my position?" This is paripraśna, inquiry. Surrender, inquiry, and sevayā. That answer should be received in service mood.



*So these are three formulas. Simple questions will not help us. The question should be put to a person where you have got full surrender and you have got the service mentality. You cannot ask spiritual master or any person whom you think is greater than you in a challenging spirit. Then you will be deceived. In a submissive way, of course, you have got right to place questions, and with service mood. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is the vivid example of this disciplic succession. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. In the Vedas also the same injunction is there. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you want to learn that transcendental science, then you must approach to a person who is heavier than you. Guru. Guru means heavier. You don't go to a person who is lighter than you. Heavier. Heavier means heavier in knowledge. So the same thing is explained everywhere. And Sanātana Gosvāmī is ideal disciple and Lord Caitanya is the ideal teacher, and we should learn how to approach a teacher and what is the qualification of a teacher. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa in the beginning on friendly terms, just like a friend talks with his friend. But when he saw that his problem was so great that it could not be solved on friendly talks, it must be seriously understood, so he also surrendered himself. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "My dear Kṛṣṇa, now from this point I accept You, my spiritual master, and I surrender unto You. Please teach me." And then He began teaching. These are the process. Then?

Girl: " 'And therefore you know everything and you are free from all the miseries of material existence.' The Lord further replied that because Sanātana was in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he was already conversant with everything. 'But because you are humble, a humble devotee, you are asking Me to confirm what is already realized by you.' "



Prabhupāda: This is another point. Even one thinks that he knows everything, still, he, before the spiritual master, he should be blank slate, that "I do not know anything." That is the qualification of the disciple. He should approach the spiritual master as if he does not know anything. Go on.



*Girl: "These are the characteristics of a true devotee. In the Nārada*-bhakti-sūtra, it is said that one who is very serious about developing his Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the grace of the Lord has his desire for understanding Kṛṣṇa fulfilled very soon. The Lord said, 'You are a suitable person for protecting the devotional service of the Lord. Therefore it is My duty to instruct you in the science of God.' "



Prabhupāda: Here is another point, that one should not accept somebody as spiritual master all of a sudden. At the same time, the spiritual master also should not accept anybody as his disciple immediately. Now Sanātana Gosvāmī is proving himself that he's qualified disciple, and Lord Caitanya is accepting him, that "You are just the suitable person; therefore I shall accept you as My disciple and teach you the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Yes.



*Girl: " 'And I will explain to you everything, step by step.' It is the duty of the disciple approaching the spiritual master to inquire about his constitutional position. In conformity to that spiritual process, Sanātana has already asked, 'What am I and why am I suffering from the threefold miseries?' The threefold miseries are called ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, and ādhidaivika. Ādhyātmika means caused by the body and mind. Sometimes the living entity suffers bodily and sometimes he is distressed mentality. Both are ādhyātmika miseries. We experience these miseries even in the womb of our mother. There are many forms of miseries that take advantage of our delicate body and give us pain. Miseries inflicted by other living entities are called ādhibhautika. There are many living entities such as bugs born of eggs that cause us miseries while we are sleeping in bed. There are many living entities like cockroaches that sometimes give us pain. And there are other living entities born on different kinds of planets, and they also cause us miseries. So far as ādhidaivic miseries are concerned, they originate with the demigods from the higher planets. For instance, sometimes we suffer from serious cold weather, sometimes we suffer from the thunderbolt, sometimes from earthquake, tornadoes, droughts, and other natural disasters. So we are always suffering one or another of three kinds of miseries. Sanātana's inquiry was 'What is the position of the living entities? Why are they always undergoing these three kinds of miseries?' Sanātana has admitted his weakness. Although he was known by the mass of people as a greatly learned man, and actually he was a highly learned Sanskrit scholar, and although he accepted the designation of a very learned man given him by the mass of people, yet he did not actually know what his constitutional position was and why he was subjected to the threefold miseries. The necessity of approaching a spiritual master is not a fashion, but is for he who is seriously conscious of the material miseries and who wants to be free of them. It is the duty of such a person to approach the spiritual master. We find similar circumstances in the Bhagavad*-gītā..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, this is very important point, that a spiritual master should not be accepted as a matter of fashion. Somebody thinks that "Everyone gets a spiritual master, so I may also have some spiritual master." Or "I may keep some spiritual master as my pet." Just like somebody keeps some pet dog or pet cat. So they want also, "Somebody must be my spiritual master, and whatever I order him, he'll carry." So such kind of fashionable spiritual master is useless. A spiritual master, it is defined in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Who requires a spiritual master? That is stated: tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Tasmād. Tasmād means "therefore." "Therefore one should approach a spiritual master." What is that "therefore"? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. If one is actually inquisitive to understand about the spiritual existence, then he requires a spiritual master. A spiritual master does not mean that he'll teach you how to keep your body fit, how you can reduce your fat, how you can remain a young man, so many nonsense. This is not the duty of the spiritual master. However you may try to keep your body fit, how long you shall keep your body fit? As soon as you are born, the death is also born along with you. Suppose one man is twenty-five years old. That means he has already died twenty-five years. So you cannot protect yourself from death, however you may become very strong, stout. Therefore actual education, actual spiritual knowledge begins, as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā... The Bhagavad-gītā, the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is that when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, He immediately said that "My dear Arjuna, you are posing yourself as very learned man but you are fool number one." Why? "Because you are identifying yourself with this body." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase [Bg. 2.11]. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like very learned man, but you are lamenting on the subject matter of your body." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Actually one who is learned, he has no necessity for lamenting on the subject, on the body, either living or dead. So the whole process of education in the materialistic way of civilization is on the body, how to keep the body fit, how to avoid death, how to avoid disease. Simply concentration on the body. So this bodily concept of life is immediately discouraged in the Bhagavad-gītā.



aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



Paṇḍitāḥ means those who are learned, they are not affected by this body, either dead or alive. So that means one should be inquisitive to learn about the soul which is sitting in the body. That is real knowledge.



So one who is inquisitive about understanding that knowledge, he requires a spiritual master. Not that one who wants to keep this body fit or wants to reduce fat. No. For him there is no necessity of spiritual master. That he can go to a doctor or a medical physician. That's all. He can advise. What is the use of going to a spiritual master? Spiritual master means jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Who can teach you about the highest benediction, he is spiritual master. So we shall discuss in next meeting. This is very interesting, and you'll be profited if you please come and hear.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (offer obeisances)



Prabhupāda: Any question? (pause) No question? Yes?



*Jaya*-gopāla: Prabhupāda? These days there are so many men who claim to have found the Absolute, who claim to be spiritual masters in their own way. How does one tell who is a bona fide spiritual master?



Prabhupāda: Yes. What is your idea of bona fide spiritual master?



*Jaya*-gopāla: One who can teach the Absolute.



*Prabhupāda: So a spiritual master... Just like Kṛṣṇa is spiritual master, and Lord Caitanya is spiritual master. We are talking about Lord Caitanya's teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī. That means Lord Caitanya is the spiritual master. Similarly, in the Bhagavad*-gītā we find Arjuna is taught by Kṛṣṇa Bhagavad-gītā. So there is no difficulty to understand who is spiritual master. Is there any difficulty? Because we see that Lord Caitanya is teaching Sanātana Gosvāmī and Kṛṣṇa is teaching Arjuna. So both Lord Caitanya and Kṛṣṇa are spiritual master. Is there any difficulty to understand? So anyone who represents Lord Caitanya and Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. That's all. Anyone who speaks exactly what Lord Caitanya said, exactly what Kṛṣṇa said, then he is spiritual master. Just like a teacher who says that "I have passed M.A." Now what is the proof? That means if he speaks exactly like persons who have passed M.A. examination, then he is M.A. A medical practitioner who is approved by other medical practitioners in the medical college, he is medical practitioner. Similarly, if you want to test who is spiritual master, you have to see the standard spiritual master, Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya and similar. Even Lord Jesus Christ, there are..., Lord Buddha, they are also spiritual masters, but they spoke in different circumstances. That is different thing. But if you want to know who is a spiritual master, then you have to test him whether he is speaking exactly like the bona fide spiritual master. Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has explained about this, who is spiritual master. What is that? He says, sādhu śāstra guru vākya tinete kariyā aikya. If you want to advance yourself in spiritual science, then you have to test these three things. What is that? Sādhu, saintly person. Sādhu, śāstra, scriptures, and spiritual master. Now suppose you want to know who is a spiritual master. Then you have to test whether he's speaking just like other saintly persons and whether he's following scriptures. Sādhu śāstra. So you have to test a spiritual master by corroborating whether he is speaking according to the scriptural injunction, whether he's speaking to other saintly persons. So in the world, anywhere you go, the standard spiritual master... Take it, Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Śaṅkara or Rāmānujācārya or Caitanya-nobody will say that you make adjustment here and live peacefully. Everyone will say that you have to extinguish this material existence. Lord Buddha says nirvāṇa, and Śaṅkara says brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, and Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Lord Jesus Christ says that "You have to go the kingdom of God. Just come with me." So nobody says that "Let us make United Nation organization and stick up to thousands of flags, and let there be peace and prosperity, and let the war go on in any part of the world." That is not spiritual master. Spiritual master means that he is interested with the other world beyond this material world. That is spiritual master. Yes?



Woman: What then is a master?



Prabhupāda: Master means who is master of the science. That's all. He must know everything of spiritual life. That is master.



Woman: Are there not many planes in mastership?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Upendra: "Are there not many planes in mastership?"



*Prabhupāda: Yes, there is. But you have to accept the standard platform by your advancement. Just like somebody accepts somebody as master, that is according to his own mentality. And somebody accepts somebody else as master, that is his mentality. But the highest, according to Vedic literature, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme master. Because all the ācāryas, all the spiritual masters of Vedic perfection, just like in the recent years Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, all of them, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme spiritual master. All of them. Even Śaṅkarācārya, he's impersonalist, still he has accepted Kṛṣṇa. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa. He says that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. That is mentioned in his commentary of Bhagavad*-gītā. And what to speak of Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, they accept. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. If you want to become a spiritual master, then try to disseminate the teachings of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So that is our, so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, our ideal spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa. Yes?



Upendra: Swamijī, someone approached me and we were discussing about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And I said to approach Kṛṣṇa one must be pure, but he said, "What is purity?" Could you explain that technically? What is purity?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Purity means standing on the spiritual platform. That is purity. In the material platform there is no purity. So according to Bhagavad*-gītā, that standard of purity, that means standing on the spiritual platform, which is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa says this purity,



māṁ ca vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*This Brahman understanding, or to stand on the Brahman platform, is purity. How one can attain that platform of purity? Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is engaged in devotional service to Me without any deviation," that means twenty*-four hours in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "he is pure." He is pure. If you can keep yourself always, constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, then you are pure. Otherwise... Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, it doesn't make any difference. So just like if you keep always in touch with fire you are warm-there is no possibility of being cold-similarly, some way or other if you always keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, then you are pure. Therefore we advise our students, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." As soon as you chant this sound, Kṛṣṇa, immediately you are in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are, you keep yourself pure. Is that clear? Yes. So try to keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any deviation. Then you remain pure. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī... [Bg. 7.14]. [break] It is very difficult to get out of the clutches of this māyā, contamination. Very difficult. Mām eva ye prapadyante: "But one who keeps touch with Me, with full surrender," māyām etāṁ taranti te, "he's out of these clutches of māyā." So just like there is antiseptic, what is called, vaccination, to keep yourself from the contamination... There is epidemic, and under government order everyone is vaccinated, that "You take this. So you shall keep your..." This is material way of keeping oneself from contamination. Similarly, if you keep always yourself in spiritual understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you remain pure. Yes?



Woman: What then are the guides? Are they also masters in a sense?



Upendra: What then are the guides? Can you repeat the question again?



Woman: What then are the guides? Are they also masters of a sense? Spiritual guides.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. One cannot be a spiritual guide unless he's not master of the senses. Therefore the spiritual guide is called svāmī or gosvāmī. Svāmī means who is master of the senses. He's not servant of the senses. Generally, people are servant of the senses. One who becomes master of the senses, he can become spiritual master. Otherwise not. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) You chant. Chant. Mādhavī*-latā, you can chant. You. You and Mādhavī. Mādhavī. All right. (end)





680927LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, September 27, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (response) Thank you. So our program is to worship the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. In this material world everyone is trying to get happiness and to get relief from distress. Two things are going on, attempt. There are different processes. Material process is completely absurd. That is already proved. No amount of material comforts or happiness, so-called happiness, can give us the actual happiness that we are hankering. That is not possible. Then there are different other processes also. There are three kinds of miseries due to our material conditional life: ādhyātmic, ādhibhautic, ādhidaivic. Ādhyātmic means pertaining to the body and to the mind. Just like when there is some disarrangement of the different functions of metabolism within this body, we get fever, we get some pain, headache-so many things-so these miseries are called ādhyātmic, pertaining to the body. And another part of this ādhyātmic misery is due to the mind. Suppose I have suffered a great loss. So the mind is not in good condition. So this is also suffering. So for diseased condition of the body or some mental dissatisfaction there are miseries. Then again, ādhibhautic, sufferings offered by other living entities. Just like we are human being, we are sending millions of poor animals to the slaughterhouse daily. They cannot express, but this is called ādhibhautic, sufferings offered by other living entities. Similarly, we have to suffer also sufferings offered by other living entities. God's law you cannot, I mean to say, supersede. So material laws, state laws, you can hide yourself, but God's law you cannot hide yourself. There are so many witnesses. The sun is your witness, the moon is your witness, the day is your witness, the night is your witness, the sky is your witness. So how you can supersede the laws of the Lord? So... But this material nature is so constituted that we have to suffer ādhyātmic, pertaining to the body, pertaining to the mind, and sufferings offered by other living entities, and another suffering ādhidaivic. Ādhidaivic, just like somebody is ghost-haunted, a ghost has attacked him. Ghost cannot be seen, but he's suffering delirium, speaking something nonsense. Or there is famine, there is earthquake, there is war, there is pestilence, so many things.



So sufferings are always there. But we are trying to adjust by patchwork. Sufferings are always there. Everyone is trying to get out of sufferings, that is a fact. The whole struggle for existence is to get out of the suffering. But there are different kinds of prescription. Somebody says that you get out of the sufferings in this way, somebody says you get out of the sufferings in that way. So there are prescription offered by the modern scientists, by philosophers, by atheists or by theists, by fruitive actors, so many there are. But according to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you can get out of all sufferings if you simply change your consciousness, that's all. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As I have given you several times the example... All our sufferings are due to lack of knowledge, ignorance. That knowledge can be achieved by association of good authorities. There is a nice Bengali verse,

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*As soon as our original consciousness becomes polluted with the consciousness of material enjoyment, that "I want to lord it over the resources of matter..." As soon as we turn our consciousness in this way, then our troubles begin. Immediately māyā. This very consciousness, that "I can enjoy this material world to my best capacity..." Everyone is trying to do that. Every one of us, beginning from the ant up to the highest living creature, Brahmā, everyone is trying to become one of the lords. Just like recently in your country there were so many canvassing for becoming the president. Why? The same idea. Everyone is after becoming some kind of lord. This is māyā. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is completely opposite. We are just trying to become the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Just opposite. Instead of becoming the lord, we want to be the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī*-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80].



So in the modern trend of civilization, people may say that this is slave mentality. It is very good idea. "Why shall I become a slave? I shall become the master." But one does not know that this consciousness, that "I shall become the master," is the cause of his suffering. This philosophy has to be understood. Because constitutionally we are all servants. In the name of becoming master of this material world we have become the servant of our senses. Because constitutionally we are servants. We cannot do without serving. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting is a servant. Now, these boys who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have agreed to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So their problem is solved. But others, who are thinking that "Why shall I become the servant of God or servant of Swamijī? I shall become the master..." But actually, he cannot become the master. He's the servant of his senses, that's all. Just try to understand. Servant he must be, but he's servant of his lust, he's servant of his avarice, he's servant of his greediness, servant of his anger, servant of so many things. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. In higher state, somebody has become the servant of humanity, somebody has become the servant of the society, somebody has become the servant of the country, but actual purpose is that "I shall become the master." That disease is there. The candidates for presidency, they are presenting their different manifestations..., no, manifesto, that "I shall serve the country very nicely. Please give me your vote." But the real idea is that "Some way or other, I shall become the master of the country." So this is māyā. So if we understand this small philosophy, that constitutionally I am servant... There is no doubt. Nobody can say that "I am free, I am master." Nobody can say. If he thinks like that, that is māyā. It is false. Can anybody say in this meeting that he's not servant of anybody or anything? He must be, because that is his constitutional position. But the difficulty is that by serving our senses, there is no solution of the problem, of the miseries. For the time being, I may satisfy myself that I have taken this intoxication, and under the spell of this intoxication I may think that "I am nobody's servant. I am free," but that is artificial. As soon as the hallucination is gone, he comes to the point, again servant. Again servant.

So this is our position. But why this struggle is there? I am being forced to serve, but I don't wish to serve. What is the adjustment? The adjustment is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that if you become servant of Kṛṣṇa, then your aspiration to become master, at the same time your aspiration of freedom, is immediately achieved. Just like here you'll see one picture of Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. Arjuna is a living entity, living being, a human being, but he is in love with Kṛṣṇa as friend. And in exchange of his friendly love, Kṛṣṇa has become his driver, his servant. Similarly, if every one of us, we become reinstated in the transcendental platform of loving Kṛṣṇa, then our aspiration of mastership will be fulfilled. That is not known at present, but if we agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then gradually we'll see that Kṛṣṇa is serving you. That is a question of realization. But if we want to get out of this service of this material world, of the senses, then we must transfer our service attitude to Kṛṣṇa. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās

teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ

*(utsṛjyaitān atha yadu*-pate) sāmpratam aham labdha-buddhis

*tvām āyātaḥ (śaraṇam abhayaṁ) niyuṅkṣvātma*-dāsye



*One devotee is praying to Kṛṣṇa that "So long, in my life, I have served my senses," kāmādīnām. Kāma means senses, lust. "So even what I should not have done, still, by the dictation of my lust I have done it." One has to do. When one is a slave or servant, then he's forced to act something which he does not like to act. He's forced. So here, a devotee's admitting that "I have done, dictated by my lust, something which I should not have done, but I have done it." All right, you have done, you are serving your senses. That's all right. "But the difficulty is that teṣāṁ karuṇā na jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. I have served so much, but I find that they are not satisfied. They are not satisfied. That is my difficulty. Neither the senses are satisfied nor I am satisfied nor the senses are kind enough to give me relief, pension from the service. That is my position." If I would have seen that, rather if we would have felt that "I have served so many years my senses, now my senses are satisfied..." No. They are not satisfied. Still dictating. Still dictating. "I am very..." Of course, it is very natural, but I may disclose herewith that some of my students said that in an elderly age of his mother, he's(she's) going to marry. Just see. She has got grown*-up children. And somebody complained that his grandmother also married. Why? Just see. In seventy-five years old, in fifty years old, the senses are still so strong that she is being dictated: "Yes, you must do it." Try to understand practically how the senses are strong. It is not that simply the young men are servant of the senses. Even seventy-five years old, eighty years old, or at the point of death, they are all servants of senses. The senses are never satisfied. That is the material dictation. So I'm servant. I am servant of my senses, and by serving my senses, neither I am satisfied nor my senses are satisfied nor they are pleased upon me. There is chaos. So this is the problem.



So best thing... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, Lord Kṛṣṇa says,

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*You have served your senses so many lives, life after life, 8,400,000 of species of life. The birds, they are also under senses. The beasts, they are also under senses. The men, human being, and everyone, the demigods, everyone within this material world, they are after senses, serving the senses. But Kṛṣṇa says that "You just surrender unto Me. Just agree to serve Me. Then I take charge of you." That's all. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Because by the dictation of the senses we are committing sinful activities life after life; *therefore we are in different grades of bodily presentation. Don't think that everyone is of the same standard. No. According to one's own work he gets a type of body. So these different types of bodies are due to different grades of sense gratification. So sense gratification is there in the hog's life also. Why he has been offered a body of the hogs? So much sensuous that it has no discrimination who is mother, who is sister, or who is this, or who is that. This is practical, you'll see. The dogs and hogs, they are like that. In human society also there are many who don't care who is mother, who is sister, or who is this. The senses are so strong. And this is our cause of all miseries, try to understand. The threefold miseries that we are suffering, that we are trying to make a solution, is due to this dictation of the senses. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. His name is Madana*-mohana. If you try to transfer your love from sense to Kṛṣṇa, then you see the result. Immediately you'll find. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. So this false endeavor, that "I want to be master of all I survey," "I am the monarch of all I survey," this attitude should be given up. Every one of us is constitutionally servant. Now, at the present moment, we are servant of the senses. Now, this servitorship should be changed to Kṛṣṇa only. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. And as soon as you change your servitorship to Kṛṣṇa, then gradually, as you become sincere, so Kṛṣṇa reveals to you, and reciprocation of service between Kṛṣṇa and yourself will be so nice. Either you love Him as friend, or master, or lover, or... There are so many items. Any way you can try to love Him and see how much you are satisfied. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Please try to understand. It is...



Now in your country these boys are trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So my humble request to you all is to try to understand this sublime benediction of life. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll gradually develop a transcendental loving attitude for Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you begin to love Kṛṣṇa, your all troubles... That means you will feel complete satisfaction. Trouble or distress is of the mind. One man is getting $6000 a month; one man is getting $200 a month. But I have seen one gentleman in Calcutta, he was drawing 6,000; he committed suicide. Committed suicide. Why? That money could not give him satisfaction. He was trying to have something else. So this material atmosphere, by earning great amount of money, will never give you satisfaction, because every one of us is the servant of the senses. This platform of service of the senses should be transferred to the platform of service to Kṛṣṇa, and then you will find all problems solved.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question?

Devotee: Prabhupāda, a picture of Kṛṣṇa is absolute, right? That is Kṛṣṇa. Is the picture of a pure devotee absolute in the same way?



Prabhupāda: Picture of devotee?



Devotee: A pure devotee.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: It's absolute in the same way that a picture...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: Let's say a picture of Prahlāda Mahārāja and Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva is also... Prahlāda is there as much as Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva is.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The Lord and the devotee, they are on the same status. Every one of them. Lord, His name, His form, His quality, His associates, His paraphernalia. Everything, they are absolute. Nāma guṇa rūpa līlā pari... And pastimes. Just like we are hearing about Kṛṣṇa, so this is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. When there is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, this Hare Kṛṣṇa, this vibration, is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Everything is absolute. Therefore pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. This is simultaneously one and different. Acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva. This philosophy has to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person energetic, and everything, what we see, what we experience, they are all different energies of Kṛṣṇa. And the energy and the energetic cannot be separated. Therefore they are all on the absolute platform. Simply when it is covered by māyā or ignorance, it is different. That's all.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what if we know we should serve and we want to serve, but the service is so bad.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Never think that service is perfect. That will keep you in the perfect stage. Yes. We should always think that our service is not complete. Yes. That is very nice. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us that... He said that "My dear friends, please take it from Me that I have not a pinch of faith in Kṛṣṇa. If you say that why I am crying, the answer is that just to make a show that I am great devotee. Actually, I have not a pinch of love for Kṛṣṇa. This crying is simply My show, makeshow." "Why You are saying so?" "Now, the thing is that I am still living without seeing Kṛṣṇa. That means I have no love for Kṛṣṇa. I am still living. I should have died long ago without seeing Kṛṣṇa." So we should think like that. That is the example. However perfect you may be in serving Kṛṣṇa, you should always know that... Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, so your service cannot reach Him perfectly. It will ever remain imperfect because we are limited. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind. If you offer a little service sincerely, He accepts. That is the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. And if Kṛṣṇa accepts a little service from you, then your life is glorious. So it is not possible to love Kṛṣṇa perfectly, to render service to Kṛṣṇa, because He is unlimited. There is a process, worshiping the Ganges in India. The Ganges River is considered sacred river. So they worship Ganges, the river Ganges, by taking water from the Ganges and offering it. Suppose in a small pot like this, either pot or your handful, you take some water from the Ganges and with your devotion and mantra you offer to the Ganges water. So you take a glass of water from the Ganges and offer it to the Ganges, what is there, gain and profit or loss or gain for the Ganges? If you take a glass of water from the Ganges and again offer it, so what is the gain and profit of Ganges? But your process, your faith, your love for mother Ganges, "Mother Ganges, I offer you this little water," that is accepted. Similarly, what we have got to offer Kṛṣṇa? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Now we have offered these fruits. Do the fruits belong to us? Who has produced these fruits? Have I produced? Is there any brain of the human being who can produce fruits, grains, milk? They're very great scientist. Now let them produce. The cow is eating grass and delivering you milk. So now, by scientific process, why don't you transform grass into milk? Still the rascals will not agree that there is God. You see? They have become so rascal: "Science." And what is your science, nonsense? You see the cows are eating grass and delivering you milk. Why don't you give to your wife and take milk? Why do you purchase? But if you offer this grass to a human being, she will die. So everything, the law of Kṛṣṇa, or law of God, is working, and still they say that "God is dead. There is no God. I am God." You do this like that. They have become so rascals and fools. Why they do not come to this meeting? "Oh, the Swamijī is speaking of God, old things. (laughter) Let us discover something new." You see? And if somebody speaks all nonsense, then "Oh, he's..." He spoke four hours on zero. Just see. Somebody in Montreal, one gentleman, "Swamijī, he is so wonderful, he spoke four hours on zero." They're such a fool that four hours he wanted to hear on zero. You see? (laughter) What is the value of zero? And you waste your time, four hours? After all, it is zero. So people want this. People want this. If we say simple things-"God is great. You are the servant, eternal servant. You have no power. You are always dependent on God. Just turn your servitorship to God, you'll be happy"-"Oh, this is not very nice." So they want to be cheated. Therefore so many cheaters come and cheat and go away, that's all. The people want to be cheated. They don't want simple things. Yes.



Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, what was exactly predicted by Lord Caitanya when He predicted the Golden Age of Kali, the age in the Age of Kali when people would be chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. People... Just like we are now preaching Hare Kṛṣṇa. In your country there was no such preaching. So we have sent our students in Europe, Germany, London*-you are also spreading. In this way it is only, we are, our activities since 1966 practically. We have registered the association in 1966, and this is '68. So gradually we are spreading. And of course, I am old man. I may die. If you have taken up this formula very nicely, then you will go on preaching, and it may be spread all over the world. Very simple thing. Simply we require a little intelligence. That's all. So any intelligent man will appreciate. But if anyone wants to be cheated, then how he can be saved if one willingly wants to be cheated? Then it is very difficult to convince him. But those who are open-hearted, they will certainly accept this nice movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes.



*Jaya*-gopāla: When we engage inferior energy, internal energy, in the service of Kṛṣṇa, it becomes spiritualized, doesn't it?



Prabhupāda: No. When you apply your energy, it is no more material; it is spiritual. Just like when the copper wire is in touch with electricity, it is no more copper; *it is electric. So service to Kṛṣṇa means as soon as you dovetail yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, you are not different from Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. This very word, sevate. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. "Anyone who seriously engages himself in My service, immediately he becomes transcendental to the material qualities and he's on the platform of Brahman." Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. So when you apply your energy in the service of Kṛṣṇa, you do not think that your material energy is there. No. Just like these fruits. These fruits, one may think, "What is this prasāda? This fruit has been purchased, we also eat fruit at home, and this is prasāda?" No. Because it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, immediately it is no more material. The result? You eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda and see how you are making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just if the physician gives you some medicine and if you get yourself cured, that is the effect of medicine. Another example is that how the material things become spiritual. A very nice example. Just like you have taken a large quantity of milk. So there is some disorder in your bowels. You go to a physician. At least, according to Vedic system of..., they will offer you a preparation which is called yogurt. That is milk preparation. That yogurt with little medicine will cure. Now your disease was caused by milk, and it is cured by milk also. Why? It is directed by the physician. Similarly everything. In the higher sense there is no existence of matter; it is only illusion. Just like this morning I was giving the instance of the sun and the fog. The fog was there; the sun could not be seen. The foolish person will say that "There is no sun. It is simply fog." But intelligent person will say that "Sun is there, but the fog has covered our eyes. We cannot see the sun." Similarly, actually, everything being energy of Kṛṣṇa, there is nothing material. Simply our, this mentality that we want to lord it over, that is false, illusion. That is covering our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. So that you will gradually understand. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. As you make progress in the service attitude, everything will become cleared, how your energy has become spiritualized.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is Māyā a pure devotee? Māyā.



Prabhupāda: Pure devotees, no, he's not under māyā.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. Is Māyā, Māyādevī, a pure devotee?



Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. The police force, are they not honest servant of the government? Does it mean the police force tortures you; therefore they're rejected from the government servant? Their task is thankless task, that's all. Similarly, Māyā is also serving Kṛṣṇa, but there is no thanks. That is the difference. She has taken a thankless task to punish persons who are godless, that's all. So Māyā as it is, it is not that she is out of touch of Kṛṣṇa. Vaiṣṇavī. In the Caṇḍī, in the book of Māyā, it is state that "Vaiṣṇavī." The Māyā is described as Vaiṣṇavī. Just like pure devotee is called Vaiṣṇava, she is also described there as Vaiṣṇavī.



Viṣṇujana: How do you make everything that you say so simple to understand?



Prabhupāda: Because the whole philosophy is so simple. God is great; *you are not great. Don't claim that you are God. Don't claim that there is no God. There is God, and He is great, and you are small. Then what is your position? You have to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is simple truth. So that rebellious attitude is called māyā. Anyone who is declaring that "There is no God. God is dead. I am God, you are God," they're all under the spell of māyā. Piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya. Just like when a man is ghost-haunted, he speaks all kinds of nonsense. So all these persons are haunted by māyā, and therefore they are saying, "God is dead. I am God. Why you are searching God everywhere? There are so many Gods loitering in the street." They're all ghost-haunted, deranged. So we have to cure them by this transcendental vibration, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the curing process only. Simply let them hear and they'll gradually be cured. Just a man who is sleeping very sound, you cry by the side of his ear and he awakes. So this is the mantra to awake the sleeping human society. Uttiṣṭha uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. The Vedas says, "O human race, please get up. Don't sleep any more. You have got this opportunity of human body. Utilize it. Get yourself out of the clutches of māyā." This is the declaration of Vedas. So you are doing that job. Hare Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and they'll be cured (?).



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!



Prabhupāda: Yes?



*Jaya*-gopāla: Is past, present and future, in the material sense, a perverted reflection of the same...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, past, future, present is according to the different kinds of relativity. That is a scientific proof. Professor Einstein has proved it. Just like your past is not past of Brahmā. Your present is not the present of an ant. So past, present, future*-time is eternal. It is according to the different dimension of body relativity. Time is eternal. Just like a small ant. In twenty-four hours he has twenty-four times past, present and future. In the sputnik, in the Russian sputnik, circumambulated round this earth in one hour, twenty-five minutes, or something like that. They, I mean to say, went round the earth for twenty-five times. That means within one hour, twenty-five minutes, the sputnik man saw twenty-five times day and night. So in the higher atmosphere the past end present is different. So this past, present, future is relative according to your body, according to circumstances. Actually, there is no past, present, future. Everything is eternal. You are eternal, nityo śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You do not die. Therefore... The people do not know that I am eternal. What is my eternal engagement? What is my eternal life? They're simply captivated on the spot life: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." That's all. This is ignorance. So one has to search out this eternal engagement with Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll be happy. Thank you. (devotees offer obeisances) Chant, Upendra, chant. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. (kīrtana) (end)





680930LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, September 30, 1968



*(kīrtana) (prema*-dhvanī)

Prabhupāda: You have sold 120 copies?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Now you have to sell 120 copies at least daily. Thank you. [break]



*(kīrtana) (prema*-dhvanī)

Girl: Would you like the window open a little?



Madhudviṣa: Do you want the window to be open?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond) (sings) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (Prabhupāda chants Brahma-saṁhitā verses, devotees respond) So our program is to worship with love and devotion Govinda, the original person. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people to love Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Our program is to love, to place your love in the proper place. That is our program. Everyone wants to love, but he is being frustrated on account of his love being misplaced. People do not understand it. They are being taught, "First of all, you love your body." Then little extended, "You love your father and mother." Then "Love your brother and sister." Then "Love your society, love your country, love the whole human society, humanity." But all this extended love, so-called love, will not give you satisfaction unless you reach to the point to love Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be satisfied. Just like if you throw a stone on some reservoir of water, on a lake, there immediately begins a circle. The circle expands, and expanding, expanding, expanding, when the circle touches the shore, it stops. Unless the circle reaches the bank or the shore of the reservoir of the water, it goes on increasing. So we have to increase. Increase. The increase means there are two ways. If you practice, "I love my society, I love my country, I love my human nation," then "Living entities," go on... But if you directly touch Kṛṣṇa, then everything is there. It is so nice. Because Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive, includes everything. Why everything? Because Kṛṣṇa is the center. Just like in a family, if you love your father, then you love your brothers, sisters, the servant of your father, the home of your father, the wife of your father, namely, your mother, everyone. The central point is father. This is crude example. Similarly, if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your love will be expanded everywhere. Another example, just like if you love a tree, the leaves, the flowers, the branches, the trunks, the twigs, everything. You simply pour water on the root, then your loving affairs for the tree will automatically serve. If you love your countrymen, if you want to see that your countryman becomes educated, advanced economically and mentally, physically, then what you'll do? You pay tax to the government. You don't hide your income tax. You simply pay tax to the central government and it will be distributed to the educational department, to the defense department, to the hygienic department, everywhere. Therefore... These are crude examples, but actually, if you want to love everything, then you try to love Kṛṣṇa. You'll not be frustrated because that is complete. When your love is complete, then you will not be frustrated. Just like you have got complete feeding. If you are satisfied with food completely, then you say, "I am satisfied. I don't want any more."



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very simple. Very simple. It is inaugurated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu especially, although it is very old, in the Vedic scripture, but still, taking from the historical point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is since Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared on the surface of this planet five thousand years ago, and later on, Lord Caitanya, five hundred years ago, He expanded that movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His mission, Lord Caitanya's mission, is ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa*-tanayaḥ. If you want to love or if you want to be subordinate... Everyone is subordinate. This is false. Everyone wants to be independent, but nobody is independent. Everyone is subordinate. Nobody can say that "I am independent." Can you say, any one of you, that you are independent? Is there anybody? No. Everyone is subordinate willingly. Not by force everyone becomes subordinate. A girl says a boy, "I want to become your subordinate," willingly. Similarly a boy says to a girl, "I want to be your subordinate." Why? That is my nature. I want to be subordinate because my nature is to be subordinate. But I do not know. I prefer, I reject this subordination; I accept another subordination. But subordination is there. Just like a worker. He works here. He finds some better wages another place, he goes there. But that does not means he becomes independent. He is subordinate. So Lord Caitanya teaches that if you want to be subordinate or if you want to worship somebody... Who worships somebody? Unless you feel somebody is greater than you, why shall you worship? I worship my boss because I think that he is greater than me. He gives me wages, salary, monthly six hundred dollars. Therefore I must worship him, I must please him.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that you become a subordinate of Kṛṣṇa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa*-tanayaḥ. If you want to worship, worship Kṛṣṇa. And next, tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. If you want to worship somebody, then love Kṛṣṇa or worship Kṛṣṇa, or His place Vṛndāvana. Because everyone wants to love some place. That is now nationalism-some country. Somebody says, "I love this American land." Somebody says, "I love this Chinese land." Somebody says, "I love the Russian land." So everyone wants to love some land. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. People are naturally inclined to love some material land. Generally, where he is born he tries to love. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Because you are inclined to love some person, you love Kṛṣṇa. Because you want to love some land, you love Vṛndāvana." Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. But if somebody says, "How to love Kṛṣṇa? I cannot see Kṛṣṇa. How to love Kṛṣṇa?" then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū-vargeṇa yā kalpitā. If you want to know the process of worshiping Kṛṣṇa, or loving Kṛṣṇa, just try to follow the footprints of the gopīs. Gopīs. The gopīs, their love, the highest perfectional love. Ramyā kācid upāsanā. There are different kinds of love or worship in the world. The beginning is, "O God, give us our daily bread." This is beginning. When we are, I mean to say, taught to love God, we are instructed that "You go to temple, go to church, and pray to God for your necessities, for your grievances." That is the beginning. But that is not pure love. Pure love, perfection of pure love, can be found amongst the gopīs. That is the example.

How? How they love Kṛṣṇa? They love Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa went to... Kṛṣṇa was a cowherd's boy, and with His friends, other cowherd's boy, He used to go with His cows in the pasturing ground the whole day. That was the system. Because people at that time were satisfied with land and cows, that's all. That is the means of solution of all economic problems. They were not industrial, they were not servant of anyone. Simply get production from the land and take milk from the cows, the whole food problem solved. So Kṛṣṇa used to go to the pasturing ground, and the gopīs at home... They were girls or women. They... Women or girls were not allowed to work. That is the Vedic system. They should keep at home, and they should be given protection by the father, by the husband, or elderly sons. They were not meant for going out. So they kept themselves at home. But Kṛṣṇa was, say, miles away in the pasturing ground, and the gopīs at home thinking, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa's feet is so soft. Now He's walking on the rough grounds. The particles of stones are pricking His sole. So He must be feeling some pain." In this way thinking, they used to cry. Just see. Kṛṣṇa is miles away, and what Kṛṣṇa is feeling, they are simply thinking of that feeling: "Kṛṣṇa may be feeling like that." This is love. This is love. They are not asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, what You have brought from Your pasturing ground? How is Your pocket? Let me see." No. Simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. They used to dress themselves because..., and go before Kṛṣṇa with nice dress, "Oh, He'll be happy to see." Generally, a boy or a man becomes happy to see his lover or wife nicely dressed. That is... Therefore it is the nature of the woman to dress nice. And according to Vedic system, a woman should dress very nicely just to satisfy her husband. That is the Vedic system. If her husband is not at home, then she should not dress nicely. There are injunctions. Proṣita bhartṛkā. There are different dresses of woman. By seeing the dress one will understand what she is. One can understand by seeing the dress that she is unmarried girl. One can see simply by the dress that she is married wife. One can see by the dress that she is widow. One can see by the dress that she is prostitute. So dress is so important. So proṣita bhartṛkā. So we are not going to discuss about the social. We are discussing about love affairs of Kṛṣṇa. So gopīs... Kṛṣṇa and gopīs, the relationship was so intimate and so unalloyed that Kṛṣṇa Himself admitted, "My dear gopīs, it is not in My power to repay you about your loving affairs." Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He became bankrupt, that "My dear gopīs, it is not possible for Me to repay your debts which you have created by loving Me." So that is the highest perfection of love. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū.

*I'm just describing the mission of Lord Caitanya. He is giving us instruction, His mission, that the only lovable object is Kṛṣṇa and His land Vṛndāvana. And the process of loving Him is the vivid example, the gopīs. Nobody can reach. There are different stages of devotees, and gopīs are supposed to be on the highest platform. And amongst the gopīs, the supreme is Rādhārāṇī. Therefore nobody can surpass the love of Rādhārāṇī. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū*-vargeṇa yā kalpitā, śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. Now to learn this, all this science of loving God, there must be some book, some authoritative literature. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is spotless description of understanding how to love God. There is no other description. From the beginning it is teaching how to love God. Those who have studied Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the first verse in the First Canto is janmādy asya yataḥ, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. The beginning is that "I am offering my unalloyed devotion unto the Supreme, from whom everything has emanated." Janmādy asya yataḥ. So it is a... You know, it is a great description. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. If you want to learn how to love God, or Kṛṣṇa, then study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the preliminary study is Bhagavad-gītā. So study Bhagavad-gītā to understand the real nature or identification of God and yourself and your relationship, and then, when you are little conversant, when you are prepared, that "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the only lovable object," then next book you take, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And you go on. Just like Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, is entrance. Just like students, they pass their school examination then enters into the college. So you pass your school examination, how to love God, by studying Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and... That is graduate study. And when you are still farther advanced, post-graduate, then study Teachings of Lord Caitanya.

*So there is no difficulty. The fact is that we have to learn how to love Kṛṣṇa. So direction is there and method is there, and we are trying to serve you as far as possible. We are sending our boys on the streets and the town to invite you. And if you kindly take up this opportunity, then your life will be successful. Premā pum*-artho mahān. Because this human form of life is meant for developing love for God. Because in all other life we have loved, we have loved. We have loved our children, we have loved our wife, we have loved our nest in the bird's life, in the beast's life. There is love. There is no necessity of teaching a bird or beast how to love the children. There is no necessity, because that is natural. To love your home, to love your country, to love your husband, to love your children, to love your wife, and so on, you go on, all this love, more or less they are all in the animal kingdom also. But that sort of love will not give you happiness. You'll be frustrated because this body is temporary. Therefore all these loving affairs are also temporary and they are not pure. They are simply a perverted reflection of the pure love that is existing between you and Kṛṣṇa. So if you want really peace, if you really want satisfaction, if you don't want to be confused, then try to love Kṛṣṇa. This is the plain program. Then your life will be successful. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not something manufactured to mislead and bluff the people. It is a most authorized movement. Vedic literature, the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedānta-sūtra, Purāṇas, and many, many great saintly persons adopted this means. And the vivid example is Lord Caitanya. You see His picture, He is in the dancing mood. So you have to learn this art, then our life will be successful. You haven't got to practice anything artificial and speculating and bother your brain and... You have the instinct for loving others. That is instinctive, natural. Simply we are misplacing love and therefore we are frustrated. Frustrated. Confused. So if you don't want to be confused, if you don't want to be frustrated, then try to love Kṛṣṇa, and you'll feel yourself how you are making progress in peacefulness, in happiness, in everything that you want.

Thank you very much. Any question?

*Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda? Is it all right for us to read the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam after we've received your Bhagavad-gītā when it comes out? Or should we just completely devote all our time to studying the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and then we..., and then progress from there, or should we continue our study of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?



*Prabhupāda: No. You should read Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. This is only a preliminary division. In the spiritual platform, everything is absolute. If you read Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find the same proposition as in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is not that because you are studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that you haven't got to study Bhagavad-gītā. It is not like that. You read these literatures and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follow the rules and regulations and live happily. Our program is very happy program. We chant, we dance, we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, we paint nice pictures of Kṛṣṇa and see them nicely decorated, and we read philosophy. So what you want more? (laughs)



Jāhnavā: How and why did we lose our awareness of our true love for Kṛṣṇa in the beginning?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How and why... How and why did we lose our love for Kṛṣṇa in the beginning?



Jāhnavā: No, not the love. Just the awareness of the love, of our true love for Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Our awareness is there. You love somebody. But you are meant to love Kṛṣṇa, that you have forgotten. So forgetfulness is also our nature. Sometimes we forget. And especially because we are very small, minute, therefore even I cannot remember exactly what I was doing last night at this time. So forgetfulness is not unnatural for us. And again, if somebody revives our memory, to accept that, that is also not unnatural. So our loving object is Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other, we have forgotten Him. We don't trace the history when we forgot. That is useless labor. But we have forgotten, that is a fact. Now revive it. Here is reminder. So take opportunity. Don't try to history why you have forgotten and what was the date of my forgetfulness. Even if you know, what is the use? You have forgotten. Take it. Just like if you go to a physician, he'll never ask you how you got this disease, what is the history of this disease, at what date, at what time you were infected.



*No. He simply feels your pulse and sees that you have got a disease and he gives you the medicine: "Yes. You take it." Similarly, we are suffering. That is a fact. Nobody can deny. Why you are suffering? Forgetting Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Now you revive your memory about Kṛṣṇa, you become happy. That's all. Very simple thing. Now don't try to find out the history when you forgot. You have forgotten, that is a fact, because you are suffering. Now here is an opportunity, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Revive your memory, your love for Kṛṣṇa. Simple thing. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and take Kṛṣṇa prasāda. And if you are not educated, you are illiterate, hear. Just you have got natural gift, ear. You have got natural tongue. So you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you can hear Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from persons who are in the knowledge. So there is no impediment. No impediment. It does not require any prequalification. Simply you have to use whatever asset you have got. That's all. You must agree. That is wanted. "Yes, I shall take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That depends on you because you are independent. If you disagree, "No. Why shall I take to Kṛṣṇa?" nobody can give you. But if you agree, it is here, very easy. Take it.

Guest: Maybe you've already answered this. I'm not sure. I didn't hear. But I have always been taught since I was a little kid to love God and then I will love everything. Is God Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got any other God? Any other God than Kṛṣṇa?



Guest: Ah, what was the question again? Oh, no, no...



Prabhupāda: Just try to understand what is God.



Guest: I didn't know that God was Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: No, everything has got definition. Just like if I say "This is watch." So it has a definition. Watch means it is round and there is a white dial and two hands, there are so many figures indicating time. Like that, I can give you some description. So anything, whatever you see or experience or try to understand, there must be some definition. So when you speak of God, do you know what is the definition of God?



Guest: Yes. I thought He was love.



Prabhupāda: Love is not definition; *love is the action. Yes, love. I love God. Love is my activity. But there must be some definition of God. That also you know. You now forget. Now, in one word, they say "God is great." So how do you test one's greatness? Next point. If you say that "This man is very great," now there must be an understanding how you estimate that he is great. These are different stages of understanding. So how do you understand that God is great? What is your calculation, that from, on this point, God is great? Just like in your Bible it is said, "God said 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? Is it not statement? So here is greatness. He simply said, "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Can you do that? Suppose you are very nice carpenter. Can you say, "Let there be a chair," and at once there is a chair? Is it possible? Suppose you are manufacturer of this watch. Can you say that "I say, let there be watch," and there is immediately watch? That is not possible. Therefore God's name is satya*-saṅkalpa. Satya-saṅkalpa. Satya-saṅkalpa means whatever He thinks, immediately it is present. Not only God, but those who have attained yogic perfection, they cannot desire like God, but almost. Wonderful things... A yogi, if he has got perfection, if he desires something, that "I want this," immediately it is there. This is called satya-saṅkalpa. In this way, there are many examples. That is greatness. What I... Just like the modern scientists, they are trying to fly some space machine in the good speed so that they can go to the moon planet. So many scientists of America, Russia, and other countries, they are trying. But they cannot. Their sputnik is coming back. But just see God's power. Millions of planets are floating just like swabs. This is greatness. So any nonsense, if he says that "I am God," he's a rascal. God is great. You cannot compare yourself with God. There is no comparison. But the rascaldom is going on. "Everyone is God. I am God, you are God"-then he's dog. You show the power of God, then you say. First deserve, then desire. What power we have got? We're always dependent. So God is great, and we are dependent on God. Therefore natural conclusion is that we have to serve God. This is the whole comment.(?) Serving means with love. Unless... Now just like these boys, my disciples, they are serving me. Whatever I say, they are immediately executing. Why? I am an Indian, I am a foreigner. Two or three years ago I was not known to them, nor they were known to me. Why they are doing that? Because it is love. Serving means developing love. So unless you develop your love for God you cannot serve Him. Anywhere. Whenever you give some service, it is based on love. Just like mother giving service to the helpless child. Why? Love. So similarly, our life will be perfect when our love is perfect with the perfect Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then it is all right. You have to learn this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: in a relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Just like I am loving my disciples, my disciples are loving me. Why? What is the medium? Kṛṣṇa. Yes?



Woman: Is Rāma synonymous with Jesus?



Devotee: "Is Rāma synonymous, the same as Jesus."



Prabhupāda: Synonymous..., not exactly synonymous, but identical. Synonymous cannot be said, identical.



Woman: Oh, identical.



Prabhupāda: Yes. In the absolute platform everything is identical. In the relative world also. Just like anything you take, it is material. So material identity. Similarly, in the spiritual world everything is spiritual. So in the spiritual world God and God's son or God's friend or God's lover, anyone is the... They're in the same platform, spiritual. Therefore they are identical.



Woman: Doesn't Rāma refer to a man that was born..., I'm not..., in India or somewhere, and Christ was born in Europe? Two different men, but still the same, the same...



Prabhupāda: Yes. The sun is every day born in India, born in Europe, born in America. Does it mean that he's Indian or American or Chinese?



Woman: No, that's not what I mean.



Prabhupāda: Then? Therefore it is like that. When... This is our limited knowledge. We have been taught in that way, that God is great. Just like the sun is great; therefore even the sun is seen in India or in America or China, anywhere, any part of the world, any part of the universe, the sun is one. Nobody can say, "Oh, it is American sun" or "It is Indian sun." So either Jesus Christ or Rāma or Kṛṣṇa, whoever comes from the kingdom of God, they are the same. There is no difference. But the difference is... Just like in your country temperature of sun is less, and in a tropical country the temperature of the sun is very great. Does it mean the sun's temperature is changed? It is according to the reception. The atmosphere of this country is so surcharged that you cannot receive the sunshine properly, but the sunshine distributes its shining everywhere the same. Similarly, according to the country, according to the circumstances, according to the planet, God is manifested differently, but He is not different. You are wrapping your body with some winter clothes. Same time, telegraph in India, oh, they are running fan. Why the temperature is different? Therefore whatever Lord Jesus Christ says or whatever Kṛṣṇa says or what Rāma says, that is in terms of the place, in terms of the circumstances, atmosphere, persons, hearer. There is different. One thing which I try to convince a child is not possible to teach the same thing to his father. Or a child cannot understand what is sex life, but a young man can understand. The same child, when he'll be grown up, he'll know. So you do not think that everyone can understand everything. So Bible is spoken under certain circumstances; *Bhagavad*-gītā is spoken under certain circumstances. It is the difference of the circumstances. Otherwise, the principle is the same. In the Bible also it is said, "Love God," and Bhagavad-gītā also says, "Love God." There is no difference.



Upendra: Prabhupāda, what is the nature of anger? How is anger...



*Prabhupāda: Anger means lust. When you are lusty and your lust is not fulfilled, you become angry. That's all. It is another feature of the lust. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo*-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. When you are too much influenced with the modes of passion, you become lusty. And when your lust is not fulfilled, then you are angry, next stage. And next stage is that there is bewilderment. And then next stage is praṇaśyati, then you are lost. Therefore one has to control this lust and anger. This controlling means you have to put yourself in the modes of goodness, not in the modes of passion. There are three modes of material nature: modes of ignorance, modes of passion and modes of goodness. Therefore if anyone wants to know the science of God, then he has to keep himself on the modes of goodness. Otherwise he cannot. Therefore we are teaching our students that "You don't do this, you don't do this, you don't do this, you don't do this," because he has to keep himself on the modes of goodness. Otherwise he'll not be able to understand. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be understood on the platform of ignorance and passion. The whole world is under the influence of ignorance and passion. But this method is so simple that if you simply follow the four principles of restriction and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you are immediately surpassing all the modes of material nature. So the anger is on the platform of passion. Yes?



Young man: Can you explain subordination again?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Explain subordination again.



Prabhupāda: Subordination, it is simple. You are subordinate. You don't understand what is subordination? Is it very difficult? Are you not subordinate to somebody?



Young man: Well, yes, I suppose you could say I was.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You must. Everyone. Everyone must be subordinate, in subordination.



Young man: Yes, in a spiritual sense though, I don't feel subordinate to...



Prabhupāda: First of all you understand what is spiritual life, then... In the spiritual sense also you are subordinate because your nature is subordination. Spiritual, what do you mean by spiritual and material?



Young man: Well, like, my body is in a particular place and time and all of these, caste (?). If I have a job then I'm subordinate to my boss, but the real, my whole being, my real being, my inner being doesn't... I don't think that I am subordinate to my boss. I think that we would be more or less equal. In a temporary sense, we are...



Prabhupāda: Yes. This consciousness is very nice, that you are feeling dissatisfaction being subordinate to your boss. Is that not?



Young man: No, that's not right.



Prabhupāda: Then?



Young man: I don't especially...



Prabhupāda: Anyone.



Young man: I don't think that... Speaking about this specific incident, it isn't necessarily true that I would feel jealous of this guy because he was over me. But I just feel as beings we are more or less all equal. I mean, you know, it's kind of a philosophy that I have. I don't feel that I have to bow down to anybody and I don't feel anybody should bow down to me.



Prabhupāda: Why? Why? Why do not bow down? Why?



Young man: Because I don't feel that I owe him anything or he owes me anything.



Prabhupāda: So that is the disease. We are forced to bow down and we think that "I don't like to bow down." This is the disease.



Young man: He didn't force me to bow down.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young man: He isn't forcing me to do anything. I'm just kind of there and he's kind of there.



Prabhupāda: No. Just try to understand. It is a very nice question. You say that "I do not want to bow down." Is it not?



Young man: That's basically true, yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Why?



Young man: Because I don't feel like I'm inferior to...



Prabhupāda: That is the disease. You have diagnosed your own disease. That is the disease of materialism. Everyone is thinking that "I want to be master. I don't wish to bow down myself." Everyone is thinking, not only yourself. Just try...



Young man: Uh...



Prabhupāda: Let me finish this. This is the disease, material disease. First of all try to understand. It is not your disease or my disease. Everyone's disease is this, that "Why shall I bow down? Why shall I become subordinate?" But nature is forcing me to become subordinate. Now who wants to meet death? Why people are dying? Can you answer this?



Young man: Why are people dying?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody wants to die.



Young man: I thought it was a biological...



Prabhupāda: Just try to understand. Who is here... That means biological force. You are subordinate to biology. Then why do you say that you are independent?



Young man: Well, I feel that I'm...



Prabhupāda: You are feeling wrongly. That is my point. That is your disease.



Young man: I'm feeling lonely?



Prabhupāda: Yes, wrongly.



Young man: Wrongly?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You are subordinate. You must have to bow down. When death is there, you cannot say, "Oh, I don't obey you." Therefore you are subordinate.



Young man: I am subordinate to God, yes.



Prabhupāda: No, no, don't... Forget God. Just now we are speaking common sense.



Young man: Kṛṣṇa... I don't...



Prabhupāda: No. Don't speak of Kṛṣṇa. That is far away. You just try to understand that you do not want to die, why you are forced to death?



Young man: Why am I forced to death?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are subordinate.



Young man: Oh, yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you understand your position, that you are subordinate. You cannot declare that "I am free. I am not subordinate." If you are wishing that "I don't wish to be subordinate, don't wish to bow down," that is your disease.



Young man: What do you want me to... What...



Prabhupāda: No, first of all try to understand your disease. Then we shall diagnose your medicine.



Young man: I'm feeling wrongly, okay, but... But who do I or what... What exactly do I bow down to... I mean...



*Prabhupāda: You are bowing down to everyone. You are bowing down to death, you are bowing down to disease, you are bowing down to old age. You are bowing down to so many things. You are forced. And still you are thinking that "I cannot bow down. I don't like." Because you are saying "I don't like," therefore you are being forced. You have to bow down. Why you forget your position? That is our disease. Therefore the next process is that "I am being forced to bow down." Now we have to find out "Where I shall be happy even by bowing down?" That is Kṛṣṇa. Your bowing down will not be stopped, because you are meant for that. But if you bow down to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's representative, you become happy. Test this. You have to bow down. If you don't bow down to Kṛṣṇa and His representative, then you will be forced to bow down something else, māyā. That is your position. You cannot be free at any moment. But you'll feel... Just like a child is twenty*-four hours bowing down to his parents. He's happy. He's happy. Mother says, "My dear child, please come down, sit down here." "Yes." He's happy. This is the nature. Simply you have to seek out where you have to bow down, that's all. That is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot stop your bowing down, but you have to see where you have to bow down. That's all. If you artificially think that "I'm not going to bow down anyone. I am independent," then you suffer. Simply you have to seek out the proper place where you have to bow down. That's all. All right. Chant. Give them prasādam. They are going. (kīrtana) (end)





681002LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, October 2, 1968



*Prabhupāda: You have got fan? Fan, fan. (sings) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond) So our program is to worship the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, find out who is the original person. Naturally, everyone is anxious to find out the original person of a family, original person of a society, original person of a nation, original person of humanity... You go on, searching. But if you can find out the original person from whom everything has come out, that is Brahman. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedānta-sūtra says Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is that from whom everything has emanated. Very simple description. What is God, what is the Absolute Truth, very simple definition*-the original person.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to approach the original person. The original person is not dead, because everything emanates from the original person, so everything is working very nicely. The sun is rising, the moon is rising, the seasons are changing, so..., there is night, there is day, just in the order. So the function of the body of the original person is going on nicely. How you can say that God is dead? Just like in your body, when the physician finds by feeling your pulse that the heart beating is going on nicely, he does not declare that "This man is dead." He says, "Yes, he is alive." Similarly, if you are intelligent enough, you can feel the pulse of the universal body*-and it is going on nicely. So how you can say God is dead? God is never dead. It is rascal's version that God is dead-unintelligent persons, persons who have no sense how to feel something dead or alive. One who has got the sense to feel how a thing is dead or alive, to understand, he'll never say God is dead. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: [Bg. 4.9] "Any intelligent person who can simply understand how I take my birth and how I work," janma karma... Now, mark this word janma, birth; and karma, work. He never says janma mṛtyu. Mṛtyu means death. Everything that is born, that has death also. Anything. We haven't got any experience which is born does not die. This body is born; *therefore it will die. The death is born with the birth of my body. I am increasing my age, number of years of my age, means I'm dying. But in this verse of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says janma karma but never says "My death." Death cannot take place. God is eternal. You also do not die. That I do not know. I simply change my body. So this is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa consciousness science is a great science. It is stated...it is not a new thing. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā... Most of you, you are well acquainted with Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it does not accept that after the death of this body*-not exactly death-after the annihilation, appearance or disappearance of this body, you or I do not die. Na hanyate. Na hanyate means "never dies" or "is never destroyed," even after the destruction of this body. This is the position.

*Now this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have to understand through the teachings of Lord Caitanya. He is the... Five hundred years ago, He appeared in Bengal, a province of India, and He specifically preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. His mission is that anyone who is born in India should take this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and distribute it all over the world. To execute that order we have come to your country. So my request is that you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement with all your knowledge, scrutinizingly. Don't accept it blindly. Try to understand with your arguments, knowledge, logic, realization-you are human being*-and you'll find it sublime, sublime, undoubtedly. We have published this book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and other books also, many books. So try to read them. And we have got our magazines, Back to Godhead. We are not sentimentalists, that we are simply dancing. The dancing has got great value; that, if you dance with us, you'll feel. It is not that some crazy fellows are dancing. No. The most intelligent persons, they are dancing. It is so nicely made that even a boy like here, he is a boy, he can take part. Universal. Join, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance, and you'll realize. Very simple method. You haven't got to understand any high standard of philosophy or jugglery of words, this or that. Simple thing. What is simple thing? God is great, everyone knows, and we are part and parcel of the great. So when we are combined with the great, we are also great. Just like your body, a small part of your body, a little finger or toe, that is also the same value of the whole body. But as soon as that small part or big part is separated from the body, it has no value. It has no value. This finger, a very small part of your body. If there is any pain, you spend thousands of dollars. You pay to the physician to cure the pain thousands of dollars, and when the physician says that "This finger has to be," what is called, "dislocated or cut off, separated, otherwise the whole body will be infected," so when this finger is cut off from your body, you don't care for it. No more value. Just try to understand. A typewriting machine, a small screw, when it is missing, your machine is not working nicely, you go to a repairing shop. He charges ten dollars. You pay immediately. That little screw, when it is out of that machine, it has not a value even one farthing. Similarly, we are all part and parcel of the Supreme. If we work with the Supreme, that means if we work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, that "I am part and parcel..." Just like this finger is working fully in consciousness of my body. Whenever there is little pain I can feel. Similarly, if you dovetail yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are living in your normal condition, your life is successful. And as soon as you are separated from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the whole trouble is there. The whole trouble is there. So there are many examples we cite every day in this class. So we have to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness if we at all want to be happy and be situated in our normal condition. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*So we are reading the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. We have begun from our last meeting, and we shall again read it. You'll read it? Yes. It was began from page twenty*-nine.

*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Page twenty*-nine, but where did you finish reading?



Prabhupāda: Read it anywhere, that's all. Yes.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "In the Bhagavad*-gītā we are informed that the constitutional nature of the individual entity is spirit soul. He is not matter. Therefore as spirit soul he is part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, the Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead. We also learn that it is the duty of the spirit soul to surrender, for only then he can be happy. The last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is that the spirit soul is to surrender completely unto the Supreme Soul, Kṛṣṇa, and in that way realize happiness. Here also Lord Caitanya is answering the questions of Sanātana, repeats the same truth, but without giving him information about the spirit soul which is already described in the Gītā."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The point is that what is the constitutional position of the spirit soul is very elaborately discussed in the Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā. Now the last instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He has instructed to Arjuna all kinds of yoga system, all kinds of religious ritualistic process, sacrifice, and philosophical speculation, the constitutional position of this body, constitutional position of the soul. Everything He has described in the Bhagavad-gītā. And at last He says to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, because you are My very intimate and dear friend, therefore I say the most confidential part of Vedic knowledge." And what is that? "You simply surrender unto Me." That's all. People are not inclined to surrender; therefore he has to learn so many things. Just like a child, he has simply a feeling of surrender to the parents, he's happy. There is no need of learning philosophy how to live very happily. The child is completely dependent on the care of parents and he's happy. Simple philosophy. But because we have advanced in civilization, in knowledge, therefore we want to understand this simple philosophy in so many jugglery of words. That's all. So if you want to learn in jugglery of words, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not lacking. We have got volumes of books of philosophy. But if you accept this simple process, that we have to... God is great and we are part and parcel; *therefore my duty is to serve and surrender unto God. That's all. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, without discussing all the constitutional position, philosophy, knowledge, and so many other things, yoga system, He immediately begins that the constitutional position of the living entity is to serve the supreme whole. That is... That is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. That means where the teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā ended, Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from that position. (aside:) Yes. Go on.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa ended His instruction. It is accepted by great devotees that Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa Himself, and from the point where He ended His instruction in the *Gītā*, He now begins His instruction again to Sanātana. The Lord said to Sanātana, 'Your constitutional position is that you are pure living soul. This material body is not the identity of your real self, neither is your mind your real identity, nor your intelligence, nor is false ego the real identity of the self. Your identity is that you are the eternal servitor of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa.' "



*Prabhupāda: Now here is some important points, that in our self*-realization, those who are grossly on the material platform, they think that this body, "I am this body, I am this body." Body means the senses; *therefore my satisfaction means the satisfaction of the senses*-sense gratification. This is the grossest form of self-realization. This body is also self. The body is self, the mind is self, and the soul is also self. Self, the synonym. The body and the mind and the soul, three of them are called self. Now in the grossest stage of our life we think that this body is the self. And in a subtler stage we think that the mind and the intelligence is the self. But actually, self is beyond this body, beyond this mind, beyond this intelligence. That is the position. Those who are grossly on the bodily concept of self-realization, they are materialists. And those who are on the concept of mind and intelligence, they are the philosophers and poets. They are philosophizing or giving us some idea in poetry, but their conception is still wrong. When you come to the point of spiritual platform, then it is called devotional service. That is being explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (aside:) Go on.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'Your position is that you are transcendental.' "



*Prabhupāda: Transcendental. "You are beyond." This is explained in Bhagavad*-gītā:



indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



First of all, you realize this body. Body means the senses. But when you go further, we see the mind is the center of these sensual activities. Unless the mind is sound, we cannot act with our senses. So indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. So transcendental to the senses, mind is there, and transcendental to the mind, there is intelligence, and transcendental to the intelligence, there is soul. That we have to understand. (aside:) Go on.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'The superior energy of Kṛṣṇa is spiritual in constitution, and the external energy is material. You are between the material energy and the spiritual energy, and therefore your position is marginal. In other words, you belong to the marginal potency of Kṛṣṇa. You are simultaneously one with and different from Kṛṣṇa. Because you are spirit, therefore you are not different from Kṛṣṇa, but because you are only a minute particle of Kṛṣṇa, you are therefore different from Him.' "



Prabhupāda: Now here is one word used, marginal potency. Marginal potency, the exact Sanskrit word is taṭastha. Just like at the end of the land, the sea begins. So there is a marginal land. Just you go on the coast of the Pacific beach, you'll find some land. Sometimes it is covered by water and sometimes it is open land. This is marginal. Similarly, we spirit souls, although we are constitutionally one with God, but sometimes we are covered by māyā and sometimes we are free. Therefore our position is marginal. When we understand our real position, then... The same... Just like the same example. Try to understand. On the beach you'll find a certain portion of land which is sometimes covered by water, and again it is land. Similarly we are sometimes covered by māyā, the inferior energy, and sometimes we are free. So we have to maintain that free state. Just like in open land, there is no more water. If you come little far away from the sea water, then there is no more water; it is all land. Similarly, if you keep yourself from the material consciousness, come to the land of spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you keep your freedom. But if you keep yourself on the marginal position, then sometimes you'll be covered by māyā and sometimes you'll be free. So that is our position. (aside:) Go on.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "This simultaneous oneness and difference always exists in the relationship between the living entities and the Supreme Soul."



Prabhupāda: Now this simultaneously one and different, just take the same example, land. Somebody says, "Oh, I saw that portion is water." And somebody says, "No. I saw that some portion is land." So simultaneously one and different. Simultaneously one and different. Our position is... Because we are spirit soul and Kṛṣṇa, God, is spirit... He is whole spirit and I am particle of that spirit. Just like sun, the sun globe, and the sunshine, molecules of shining particles, they are also sunlight. The combination of those atomic particles of sunshine giving us the sunshine rays. So we are also shining just like the particles of the sun globe, but we are not equal to the complete sun. The glowing particles, molecules of the sunshine, is not equal in quantity with the sun globe, but in quality it is the same. Similarly, we living entities, we are minute particles of that supreme spirit soul, Kṛṣṇa or God. Therefore we are also shine. We are of the same quality. Just like a small particle of gold is gold. It is not iron. Similarly, we are spirit soul; therefore we are one. But because I am minute... Just like the same example. The marginal portion being very small, it is being sometimes covered by the water. But the large portion of the land, that is without any water. Similarly, māyā can cover the minute particles of the spirit soul, but māyā cannot cover the supreme whole. Just like the same example, the sky, the sunshine. The sunshine, portion of the sunshine, is covered by cloud. But if you go by airplane, jet plane, above the cloud, you'll find the sunshine is without any cloud. The cloud cannot cover the whole sun. Similarly, māyā cannot cover the supreme whole. Māyā can cover the small particles of Brahman. The theory, the Māyāvāda theory that "I am now covered by māyā. As soon as I am uncovered I become one with the whole..." We are one with the whole in the same way. Just like the sunshine and the sun globe, there is no difference in quality. Wherever there is sun, there is sunshine, but the small particles, the molecules of the sunshine, are never equal to the complete globe sun. That is being described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu in this chapter. (aside:) Go on.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The living entity is just like a molecular part of the sunshine, whereas Kṛṣṇa is compared to the blazing shining sun. Lord Caitanya compared the living entities to the blazing sparks from the fire and the Supreme Lord to the blazing fire of the sun. The Lord cites in this connection a verse from *Viṣṇu Purāṇa* in which it is stated that everything that is manifested within this cosmic world is but an energy of the Supreme Lord. For example, as the fire emanating from one place exhibits its illumination and heat all around, so the Lord, although situated in one place in the spiritual world, manifests His different energies everywhere."



*Prabhupāda: Now, this is very simple. Try to understand. Just like this fire, this lamp, is located at a certain place but the illumination is distributed all over this room, similarly whatever you see, display of this cosmic manifestation, they are display of the energy of the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Lord is situated in one place. That we cite in our Brahma*-saṁhitā: govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. He's a person. Just like your President, Mr. Johnson, he's sitting in his room in Washington, but his power, his energy, is acting all over the state. If it is possible materially, similarly Kṛṣṇa, or God, the Supreme Person, He is situated in His place, abode, Vaikuṇṭha or kingdom of God, but His energy is acting. Another example, the sun. The sun, you can see sun is located at a certain place, but you see the sunshine is overflooding the whole universe. The sunshine is within your room. So similarly, whatever you are using, you yourself also, we are all display of the energy of the Supreme Lord. We are not different from Him. But when the cloud of māyā or illusion covers my eye, we cannot see the sun. Similarly, when the material concept of life covers me, we cannot understand what is God. We say God is dead. So we have to uncover our eyes from this illusion. Then you'll see directly God: "Here is God." Yes. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,



*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*That Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is Śyāmasundara. Śyāmasundara. Śyāma means blackish but very, very beautiful. That beautiful person, Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, is being observed and seen by saintly persons always. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Why they are seeing? Because their eyes have been cleared by the ointment of love of God. Just like if your eyes are defective, you apply some ointment, some lotion from the physician, and your eyesight becomes clear and bright, you can see things very nicely. Similarly, when your, these material eyes will be ointmented with love of God, then you'll see God, "Here is God." You will not say God is dead. And that covering has to be moved, and to move that covering you have to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. So any question? First of all from audience. We invite questions, if you have any question, doubt, about the statements, you can inquire. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Everything, if you are serious to understood, we should submit our doubtful questions and then understand. You see. Yes?

Young man: Does one attain a consciousness that is beyond words? Or, I dare say, is there a communication that is not the word itself but perhaps a vibration which is much like sound or sound itself? Perhaps reaching for the oṁ. Is there a communication, something understood between you and myself, myself and my brother, others, all of us? Is there an experience perhaps where we're... Does it sound like "dong," "aung." Is there something else beside the verbal? Talk?



Prabhupāda: Yes, this Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Young man: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young man: Could you elaborate? Could you tell me how this can be? How it can be all the time? Rather than to be a man, rather than to have to talk English alone or other languages? How to talk that one language?



Prabhupāda: Well, sound can be vibrated in any language. It doesn't matter that Hare Kṛṣṇa can be sounded in Sanskrit only. You can sound it in English tone also: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Is there any difficulty? These boys, they are also sounding in Hare Kṛṣṇa. So there is no difficulty. It is the sound that matters. It doesn't matter who is sounding. Just like in piano, if you touch, there is "dung." It doesn't matter whether an American is striking or an Indian striking or a Hindu striking or Muslim striking, the sound is sound. Similarly, this piano, Hare Kṛṣṇa, you just touch it and it will sound. That's all. Yes?



Young man (2): Do you sit and meditate alone? What do you do with your mind as it wanders? Do you think of something? Do you put it on something or do you let it wander by itself?



Prabhupāda: First of all let me know what do you mean by meditation?



Young man (2): Sitting alone quietly.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Young man (2): Sitting alone quietly.



Prabhupāda: Sitting alone quiet. Is it possible? Do you think it is possible?



Young man (2): If you listen to your own mind.



Prabhupāda: Then mind is always acting.



Young man (2): It chatters to you.



Prabhupāda: How can you sit, silent mind? Mind is always acting. Is there any experience that mind is not acting when you sit silently? When you sleep, the mind is acting. You are dreaming. This is the action of mind. So when do you find that your mind is silent?



Young man (2): That's what I was trying to ask you.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore mind is never silent. You have to engage your mind to something. That is meditation.



Young man (2): What do you engage it to?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa. We engage our mind to Kṛṣṇa, the beautiful Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not only simply engaging the mind, but engaging the mind in action with the senses. Because mind is acting with our senses. Your mind said, "Let us go to that newly started ISKCON Society," so your legs carried you here. So mind... Thinking, feeling, willing, these are the functions of the mind. So mind thinks, feels, and they works. So you have to fix up your mind not only thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but also working for Kṛṣṇa, feeling for Kṛṣṇa. That is complete meditation. That is called samādhi. Your mind cannot go out. You have to engage your mind in such a way that the mind will think of Kṛṣṇa, feel for Kṛṣṇa, work for Kṛṣṇa. That is complete meditation.



Young man (2): What do you do with your eyes? Close your eyes?



Prabhupāda: Yes, eyes are one of the senses. Mind is the general sense, and under the governor general, there are particular commissioners or subordinate officers. So the eyes, the hand, the leg, the tongue, ten senses, they are working under the direction of the mind. So mind is expressed, manifested through the senses. Therefore unless you engage your senses in the same way as your mind is thinking, feeling, there is no perfection. There will be disturbance. If your mind is thinking of Kṛṣṇa and your eyes are seeing something else, there will be disruption or contradiction. Therefore under the... You have to first of all fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa, and then all other senses will be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



Hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka means senses. When you engage your senses in the service of the master of the senses... Kṛṣṇa is called Hṛṣīkeśa, or the master of the senses. Master of the senses means, try to understand. Just like this hand. The hand is working very nicely, but if the hand is paralyzed or Kṛṣṇa withdraws the power, then your hand is useless. You cannot restore it. Therefore you are not master of your hand. You are thinking falsely that "I am master of my hand." But actually, you are not master. The master is Kṛṣṇa. (aside:) I'll answer... Therefore when your senses will be engaged in the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti, devotional service. Now the senses are engaged in my designation. I am thinking that "This body is meant for the satisfaction of my wife or my this or that," so many things, "my country, my society." This is designation. But when you come to the spiritual platform, you understand that "I am part and parcel of the Supreme; *therefore my activities should be to satisfy the Supreme." That is bhakti. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], being liberated from all designation. When your senses are purified, and when that senses are engaged in the service of the master of the senses, that is called acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is your question? So meditation, the engagement of mind, should be in that way. Then it will be perfect. Otherwise, the mind is so flickering and changing that if you don't fix up at a certain point... Fix up means... The mind is want to do something because the symptom of mind is thinking, feeling and willing. So you have to train your mind in such a way that you will think of Kṛṣṇa, you'll feel for Kṛṣṇa, you'll work for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is samādhi. That is perfect meditation.



Young man (2): How does one train the mind?



Prabhupāda: This is the training. You just engage yourself in activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is practical. Just like chanting, the boy of ten years old, he's also engaged. His mind is concentrated on the vibration Hare Kṛṣṇa. His other senses, legs or hand, they're working, dancing. So in this way we have to practice our mind, our senses always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will make you perfect. And that is possible by everyone. You don't require to sit down at a place to artificially meditate upon something. As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately your mind is diverted, immediately you remember Kṛṣṇa, instruction of Kṛṣṇa, work of Kṛṣṇa, everything. That requires practice.



Young man (2): Since you are a ray of the sun, so to speak...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young man (2): Could you think of yourself? And when you think, you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: Why not? I am individual... Although I am small, but I am individual. I have got all the power of thinking, feeling, willing. We are doing that. We are individual. You have come here by your individual will. Nobody has forced you. If you like, you can go. Somebody comes here, somebody never comes, somebody comes daily. Why? Even you are small, you have got individuality. Even in this conditioned state, you are so free, so much free. And when you are unconditioned, purely spirit, you do not know how much freedom you have got. It doesn't matter you are small, but you are a spiritual spark. Don't you see that a small spiritual spark which no physician, no medical science has still discovered, where is the soul, but the soul is there. That is a fact. As soon as the soul is gone from this body, it is useless. Find out what is that important particle. That is not possible, because it is so small that your, with these material eyes or microscope or any scope you cannot find out. Therefore they say there is no soul. But they cannot explain what is gone. Even that small particle of spiritual soul is so powerful that as long as it is within this body, it keeps it fresh, nice, beautiful. And as soon as it is gone, immediately it becomes to decompose. Just see. Just like a drug, injection. A little, one grain, it keeps fit. It is something like that, it is so powerful. You do not know what is the power of that soul. That you have to learn. Then that is self*-realization. This meditation process, sitting in a silent place, is recommended in the grossest stage of bodily concept of life. Let one thing, meditate, "Am I this body?" then make analysis. You'll see, "No. I am not this body. I am different from this body." Then further meditation: "If I am not this body, then the bodily actions, how it is being done?" It is being done for that presence of that small particle, myself. How the body is growing? Because on account of presence. Just like this boy, this boy has got a small stature of body. Now, this boy will grow a very stout and strong body in his young age, as at the age of twenty-four years. Now, this body will go, another body will come. How it is being possible? On account of presence of the small particle of the soul. But if that particle of the soul is taken away or gone away, this body no more will increase or change. These are the subject matter of meditation. But when you come to the point of understanding that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," then the next stage will be "What is the function of the soul?" That function of soul is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in the present age one has to take directly to the function of the soul; then other things will automatically come. It is not possible at the present moment that you can go to a secluded place and peacefully sit there and meditate upon... It is not possible in this age. It is impossible. If you try artificially, it will be failure. Therefore you have to take this process,



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*In this age of Kali, there is no other alternative for self*-realization than this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the practical, real fact.



Madhudviṣa: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a spiritual master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?



Prabhupāda: I don't follow.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the...



Prabhupāda: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?



Madhudviṣa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.



Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?



*Madhudviṣa: I mean like we couldn't understand the teachings of the Bhagavad*-gītā without your help, without your presentation.



Prabhupāda: Similarly, you have to understand Bible with the help of the priest in the church.



Madhudviṣa: Yes. But is he receiving a good interpretation from his disciplic succession or his bishop? Because there seems to be some kind of a discrepancy in the interpretation of the Bible. There's many different sects of Christianity that interpret the Bible in different ways.



Prabhupāda: Of course, there cannot be any interpretation in the Bible. Then there is no authority of Bible. If you interpret something... Just like "Call a spade a spade." So if you call something else, that is a different thing. He's not spiritual master. Just like this is watch. Everybody has called it watch, and if I call it spectacle, then what is the value of my being spiritual master? I'm misleading. (laughter) It is watch, that I must say. So when there is misinterpretation, he's not a bona fide spiritual master. He's not spiritual master, what is called a bona fide. If I want to teach you how to see this watch, I can say that "This is called watch and this is called hand and this is called time indication; *this is, this called...," so that is nice. And if I say that "Everybody says it is watch. I say it is spectacle," then what kind of a spiritual master I am? Reject him immediately. That intelligence you must have, who is a pseudo spiritual master or real spiritual master. Otherwise you'll be cheated. And that is being done. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. The Bhagavad*-gītā, there are thousands of editions, and they have tried to interpret in their own way, all nonsense. They should be all thrown away. Simply you have to read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then you'll understand. There is no question of interpretation. Then the authority is gone. As soon as you interpret, then there is no authority. Lawbook. Do you mean to say in the court if you say before the judge, "My dear lord, I interpret this passage in this way," will it be accepted? The judge will at once say, "Who are you to interpret? You have no right." Then what is the authority of this lawbook if everyone comes, "I interpret in this way"? And interpretation when required? When a thing is not understood. If I say, "It is watch," and everyone understands that "This is watch, yes," then where is the opportunity of interpreting that this is spectacle? If anyone can understand the clear passage... Just like in the Bible, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Where is the question of interpretation? Yes, God created. You cannot create. Where is the opportunity of interpretation? So unnecessary interpretation is not required and that is not bona fide, and those who are interpreting unnecessarily, they should be rejected immediately. Immediately, without any consideration. God said, "Let there be creation." So there was creation. Simple thing. Where is the question of interpretation? What can be the interpretation here? Suggest that this can be interpretation. Am I right? In the beginning of the Bible it is said like that? "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation. So what is your interpretation? Tell me what is your interpretation. Is there any possibility of interpretation? Can any one of you suggest? Then where is the opportunity of interpretation? One can explain. That is different thing, but the fact that God created, that will remain. That you cannot change. Now, how that creative process took place, that is explained in Bhāgavatam: First of all, there was sky, then there was sound, then there was this, that. This is the process of creation, that is another thing. But the fact, the primary fact that God created, that will remain at any circumstances. Not the rascal scientist says, "Oh, there was a chunk and it is split up, and there was these planets. Perhaps this and likely this," all this nonsense. They'll simply interpret, "likely," "perhaps." That is not science-"likely," "perhaps." Why perhaps? Here is clear statement, "God created." That's all. Finish. Yes.



*Mahāpuruṣa: Prabhupāda, is there any contradiction, because Lord Jesus Christ and Lord Caitanya both appeared in the Kali*-yuga and Lord Jesus Christ said that "The only way to God is through me. Just believe in me or surrender to me," and Lord Caitanya taught that hari-nāma is the only means of spiritual realization in this age?



*Prabhupāda: So where do you find the difference? If Lord Jesus Christ says, "Through me," that means he's representative of God, and hari*-nāma is God. So either through the representative of God or God, the same thing. God and God's representative, there is no difference. Even in these ordinary dealings, if I send some representative, if he signs something on my behalf, I have to accept that, because he is my representative. Similarly, God has to be approached through God or through His representative. The same thing. Only the difference may be of understanding. Because Lord Jesus Christ spoke to a society that was not very much advanced. You can understand that such a great personality, God conscious person, was crucified. Just see the condition of the society. In other words, they were low-grade society. So they were not able to understand the whole philosophy of God. That is sufficient. "God created. Just take it." They were not intelligent to understand how the creation took place. Had they been intelligent, they would not have crucified such a great personality like Jesus Christ. So we have to understand what is the condition of the society. Just like in the Koran it is said by Muhammad that "From this day you have no sex intercourse with your mother." Just find out the condition of the society. So we have to take account of the time, circumstances, society, and then preaching. So to society like that it is not possible to understand the high philosophical things as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But the primary fact, the authority is God, that is accepted both in Bible and Bhagavad-gītā. Bible begins, "God is the supreme authority," and Bhagavad-gītā concludes, "You surrender." Where is the difference? Simply the description is according to the time, society, and place and people. That's all. They are not Arjuna. You see? So the things to be understood by Arjuna is not possible by the persons who had crucified Lord Jesus Christ. You have to study in that light. The same thing. A dictionary, a pocket dictionary, child's dictionary, and the dictionary, international dictionary, both of them dictionary, but the value is different. That dictionary is meant for a class of children, and that dictionary is meant for high scholars. But none of them you can say it is not dictionary. That you cannot say. Both of them are dictionaries. So we have to take consideration of the time, place, persons, everything. Just like Lord Buddha, he simply said that "Stop this nonsense animal killing." That was his propaganda. They were so low-grade people, simply taking pleasure in animal killing. So in order to elevate them, Lord Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense: "Please stop killing." So in every time a different representative of God or God comes to teach people at different circumstances. So according to the circumstances there may be some difference in explanation, but the primary factor remains the same. Lord Buddha said, "All right, there is no God, but you surrender to me." Then where is the difference? That means one has to accept the authority of God either this way or that way.



Child: Um, when Lord Buddha was here, did he sit down and meditate?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Child: Well, I thought that in this age you can't meditate, but Lord Buddha, who was God's son, he meditated.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Child: But that wasn't the age of Kali?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Child: It was?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Child: Then how can you meditate?



Prabhupāda: Very good. (much laughter) Therefore we are better than Buddha. We say meditation is not possible. Do you see? Do you understand now? Lord Buddha said, "Meditate," but the followers of the Lord Buddha could not. They failed. We are giving new light, that "Meditation will fail. You take this." Is that clear? Yes. If somebody has said you something, and if you are failure, then I say, "You don't do this. Take this. It will be nice." Just like you are a child, you cannot meditate, but you can dance and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Lord Buddha knew that they cannot meditate. You are a very intelligent boy. But in order to stop their nonsense, he simply said, "Sit down. Meditate." That's all. (laughter) Just like a naughty boy, he's creating mischief. His parent says, "My dear John, you sit down here." He knows that he cannot sit down, but for the time being he'll sit down. The father knows that he'll not sit down, but at least for the time being let him stop these mischievous activities. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. (kīrtana) (end)





681004LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, October 4, 1968



*Prabhupāda: (sings) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (audience responds) Somebody is helping him? Yes, it is all... So we are interested in capturing the original person. (chuckles) We are not interested with any subordinate. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. But if one can capture the original person, then he captures everyone. Just like the same example. In the Vedas it is said in the Upaniṣad, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead or the Absolute Truth, then you understand everything. There is no need of understanding separately. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said,



yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito na duḥkhena

guruṇāpi vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



*Now we are, everyone, searching after some standard of life where we will have no anxiety. That is the aim of everyone. Why we are struggling? We are trying to approach a certain point. Just like two parties playing on football, they are, each one of them, trying to approach the goal. That is victory. So everyone is trying to gain something, according to different position, according to different idea. Not everyone is searching after the same thing. Somebody searching after material pleasure, somebody searching after intoxication, somebody is searching after sex, somebody is searching after money, somebody is searching after knowledge, somebody is searching after so many things. But there is one thing. If we can get that, attain to that perfection, then we shall be satisfied and we shall say that "We do not want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. There are many instances. So there is like that, and that is Kṛṣṇa. If you can simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then your knowledge is perfect, you understand everything. You understand science, you understand mathematics, you understand chemistry, physics, astronomy, philosophy, literature, everything. It is so nice. So Bhāgavata says therefore that saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Whatever department of knowledge or whatever department of activities you are engaged in, it doesn't matter. But if you can find out the Supreme by your pursuit of knowledge, that is your perfection. You are a scientist, all right, it doesn't matter. By your scientific research work you find out the Supreme. Then it is your perfection. You are businessman? Oh. With your money just find out the Supreme. You are a lover? Just find out the supreme lover. You are after taste, aesthetic, or... Atheistic not; *aesthetic sense, taste, beauty, if you find out the Supreme, your searching after beauty will be satisfied. Everything. Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all*-attractive. You are searching after something. If you find Kṛṣṇa then you'll see yes, your goal is attained. Therefore His name is Kṛṣṇa.



*Kṛṣṇa means "all*-attractive." He is attractive to the lover, He's attractive to the wise, He's attractive to the politician, He's attractive to the scientist, He is attractive to the rogues. Rogues also. When Kṛṣṇa entered the arena of Kaṁsa, different kinds of people saw Him differently. Those who were invited from Vṛndāvana, they were young girls. They saw Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, the most beautiful person." Those who were wrestlers, they saw Kṛṣṇa as thunderbolt. They also saw Kṛṣṇa, but they say, "Oh, here is thunderbolt." Just like however strong you may be, if there is falldown of thunderbolt everything is finished. So they saw Kṛṣṇa as thunderbolt, the wrestlers. Yes. And the elderly persons, elderly ladies, they saw Kṛṣṇa as loving child. So you can establish relationship with Kṛṣṇa any way. There are twelve kinds of rasas, humor. Just like sometimes we want to see a very pathetic scene in some drama, some ghastly scene. Somebody is murdering somebody and we take pleasure in seeing that. There are certain kinds of person... There are different kinds of sporting. One of our student in Montreal, he was saying that his father took pleasure in bull fighting in Spain. When the bull is killed by fighting, he was taking pleasure. So different kinds of men. One person is seeing, "It is horrible," another person is enjoying, "Oh, it is very nice." You see? So Kṛṣṇa can accommodate. If you want to love horrible things, Kṛṣṇa can present yourself as Nṛsiṁhadeva, "Ah."(laughter-Haribol) Yes. And if you want to see Kṛṣṇa as very loving friend, He is Vamśī-dhārī, Vṛndāvana-vihārī. If you want Kṛṣṇa as loving child, then He's Gopāla. If you want child as loving friend, he's Arjuna. Just like Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So there are twelve kinds of humors. Kṛṣṇa can be accommodated with all the humors; *therefore His name is Akhila*-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Akhila means universal; rasa means mellow, humor; *and the ocean. Just like if you try to find out water and if you go before the Pacific Ocean, oh, unlimited water. There is no comparison how much water is there. (chuckling) Similarly, if you want something and if you approach Kṛṣṇa, you'll find unlimited supply, unlimited supply, just like ocean. Therefore it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If anyone can approach or gain that Supreme Absolute, then he will be satisfied and he will say, "Oh, I have no more hankering. I have got everything complete, in full satisfaction." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ yasmin sthite. And if one is situated in that transcendental position, then what happens? Guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate [Bg. 6.20-23]. If there is very severe test of distress, he's not, I mean to say, faltering.

*There are many instances in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the Pāṇḍavas were placed in so many distressed condition, but they were never faltering. They never asked Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are my friend. You are our friend, the Pāṇḍavas. Why we are undergoing so much severe test of difficulties?" No. They never. Because they were confident that "In spite of all these difficulties, we shall come out victorious because Kṛṣṇa is there. Because Kṛṣṇa is there." This confidence. This is called śaraṇāgati, surrender. There are six points of surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. One point of surrender is to believe that "Kṛṣṇa will protect me." Just like a small child has got full faith in his mother: "My mother is there. There is no danger." Confident. I have seen it. Everyone. I have got... I'll narrate one practical experience. In Calcutta, in my younger days, I was traveling in tram, and my youngest son, he was with me. He was only two years old, or two or two and a half years old. So the conductor, out of joke, asked him, "Give me your fare." So he first of all said like this: "I have no money." So the conductor said, "Then you get down." He immediately said, "Oh, here is my father." (makes some gesture) (laughter) You see. "You cannot ask me to get down. My father is here." You see? So this is the psychology. If you have approached Kṛṣṇa, then even the greatest fear will not agitate you. That is a fact. So such a thing is Kṛṣṇa. Try to achieve this greatest boon, Kṛṣṇa. And what Kṛṣṇa says? Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. "My dear Kaunteya, son of Kuntī, Arjuna, declare in the world that My devotees will never be vanquished." Will never be vanquished. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati.

*Similarly, there are many passages in the Bhagavad*-gītā. I'm quoting from Bhagavad-gītā because this book is very popular all over the world, and... Try to understand, read this book, very valuable book of knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says,

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Who can worship Kṛṣṇa? That is described here, that budhā. Budhā means most intelligent person. Bodha, bodha means knowledge, and budhā means one who is wise, full of knowledge. Everyone is after knowledge. Here you have got this Washington University. There are many students. They have come here to acquire knowledge. So one who has acquired the perfection of knowledge or the highest platform of knowledge, he is called budhā. So not only budhā but bhāva*-samanvitāḥ. Bhāva means ecstasy. One must be very learned and wise, at the same time he must feel ecstasy spiritually. "Such person," Kṛṣṇa says, iti matvā bhajante mām. "Such persons worships Me or loves Me." One who is very intelligent and one who is transcendentally very full of ecstasy, such person loves Kṛṣṇa or worships Kṛṣṇa. Why? Because iti matvā, "by understanding this." What is this? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], "I am the origin of everything, sarvasya." Anything you bring, that is, if you go on, search out, then you will find ultimately it is Kṛṣṇa.



*The Vedānta also says the same thing. What is Brahman? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life, this human life... We have now... In other life we have enjoyed sense pleasure to the fullest extent. What we can enjoy in this human life? In other life... Of course, according to Darwin's theory, just prior to this human life there was monkey life. So the monkey... You have no experience. In India we have got experience. Each and every monkey has got at least hundred girls with him. Hundred, one hundred. So what we able to enjoy? Every, each, they have got party, and each party, one monkey has got a least fifty, sixty, not less than twenty*-five. So a hog's life, they have got also dozens of... Dozens. And they have no distinction, "Who is my mother, who is my sister, who is my relative." You see? So they're enjoying. So do you mean to say that human life is meant like that-like monkeys and hogs and cats and dogs? Is that perfection of human life, to satisfy sense gratification? No. That we have enjoyed in various forms of life. Now? The Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for inquiring and understanding Brahman. What is that Brahman? Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ brahma or parama, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. And Kṛṣṇa is Para-brahma. Brahman, we are all Brahman, but He is Para-brahman, the Supreme Brahman. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Just like you are all Americans, but your President Johnson is the supreme American. That is natural. Vedas says that the supreme of everyone is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Who is God? He is the most perfect eternal, He is the most perfect living force. That is God. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.

Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The meaning is that one living force is supplying all the demands of all other living entities. Just like in a family the father is supplying the necessities of the wife, the children, the servant, a small family. Similarly, you expand it: the government or the state or the king is supplying the necessities of all the citizens. But everything is incomplete. Everything is incomplete. You can supply your family, you can supply your society, you can supply your country, but you cannot supply everyone. But there are millions and trillions of living entities. Who is supplying food? Who is supplying hundreds and thousands of ants within the hole in your room? Who is supplying food? When you go to the green lake there are thousands of ducks. Who is taking care of them? But they are living. There are millions of sparrows, birds, beasts, elephants. At one time he eats hundred pounds. Who is supplying food? Not only here, but there are many millions and trillions of planets and universes everywhere. That is God. Nityo nityānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Everyone is dependent on Him, and He is supplying all the necessities, all the necessities. Everything complete. Just like this planet, everything is complete.

pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

[Iso Invocation]



*Every planet is so made that it is complete in itself. The water is there, reserved in the seas and oceans. That water is taken away by the sunshine. Not only here, in other planets also, the same process is going on. It is transformed into cloud, then distributed all over the land, and there is growing of vegetables, fruits and plants, everything. So everything is complete arrangement. That we have to understand, that who has made this complete arrangement everywhere. The sun is rising in due time, the moon is rising in due time, the seasons are changing in due time. So how you can say? There is evidence in the Vedas there is God. In every scripture, every great personality, devotee, representative of God... Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he gave information of God. Although he was crucified, he never changed his opinion. So we have evidences from scripture, from Vedas, from great personality, still, if I say, "God is dead. There is no God," then what kind of man I am? This is called demon. They'll never believe it. They'll never believe... Yes. Just the opposite demon is budhā. Budhā means very intelligent, wise man. In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it is said, therefore, kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Anyone who becomes attracted by Kṛṣṇa and loves Him... Worshiping means loving. In the beginning it is worshiping, but at the end it is love. Worshiping.



So iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā. Anyone who is wise, who is intelligent, who knows that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes...

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sarva*-kāraṇa: everything has got cause, cause and effect. So you go on finding out what is the cause of this, what is the cause of this, what is the cause of this, then you'll find Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. And Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. You cannot say something has sprang automatically. That is foolishness. Everything has a source of generation. Everything. That is intelligence. Don't say... Just like in modern science says that "There was a chunk and there was creation-perhaps." That is also "perhaps," you see. So this kind of knowledge is useless. You must find out. If I ask the scientist, "What is the cause of this chunk?" they cannot reply. So find out the cause, and you'll find that... If I cannot find, then we have to follow... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], we have to follow the authorized ācāryas. If you be Christian, just follow Jesus Christ. He says, "There is God." Then you accept there is God. He says that "God created this. He said that 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." So we accept this, "Yes. God created." Here also in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], "I am the origin." So God is the origin of creation. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam: [Bs. 5.1] He is the cause of all causes.



So we have to take the examples of great personalities, we have to study authorized books and Vedas, and we have to follow their example; *then Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God realization or God consciousness is not difficult. It is very easy. There is no, I mean to say, any stumbling block on the path of your understanding what is God. Everything is there. The Bhagavad*-gītā is there, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is there. Even you accept, your Bible is there, the Koran is there, everywhere. Without God, there cannot be any book or scripture. Nowadays, of course, they are manufacturing so many things. But in any human society the conception of God is there-according to time, according to the people, but the idea is there. Now you have to understand, jijñāsā. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says that you try to understand God by inquiry, inquiry. This inquiry is very important. In our process, ādau gurvāśrayaṁ sad-dharma pṛcchāt. One has to accept a bona fide spiritual master and he has to inquire from him, sad-dharma pṛcchāt. Similarly, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also says that jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. "One who is inquisitive to understand the Absolute Truth, he requires a spiritual master." Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Jijñāsuḥ means inquisitive, one who inquires. Inquiry is natural. Just like a child: with the development of his life he inquires from the parents, "Father, what it is? Mother, what it is? What it is? What it is?" This is nice. A boy, child, who is inquiring, that means he is very intelligent boy. So we should be intelligent and inquire, jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā. This life is for brahma-jijñāsā, to understand, to inquire about God. Then a life is successful. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And after inquiring, inquiring, inquiring, understanding, understanding, understanding, then what is the ultimate stage? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of inquiry, when one becomes actually a wise man, man of knowledge, then what happens? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: "He surrenders unto Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. He understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is the cause of all causes. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. But such kind of great soul is very rare, to understand it. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, sei bado catura: he is very intelligent.

*So these are the definition of intelligent person. So if we want to be intelligent, we can adopt the process how to become intelligent. But on the other hand, if we are actually intelligent, why not take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately and become intelligent? Without, without going to the process, you take... It is offered to you by the most magnanimous incarnation, Lord Caitanya. He's offering you, kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. He's giving you love of Kṛṣṇa. Rūpa Gosvāmī offered his obeisances to Lord Caitanya, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "O my dear Lord Caitanya, You are the most charitable, magnanimous of all incarnations. Why? Because You are directly giving love of Kṛṣṇa. The love of Kṛṣṇa which cannot be achieved after many, many births, You are delivering cheaply, 'Take it immediately.' " Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya. They could understand that "You are Kṛṣṇa"; *otherwise it was not possible by anyone to offer Kṛṣṇa*-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, so cheaply. "You are Kṛṣṇa, You have got that power." And actually He is so. Kṛṣṇa failed to give Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, when He came personally and taught Bhagavad-gītā. He simply said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But people misunderstood Him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came as a devotee and offered Kṛṣṇa-prema to the people in general. So our request to everyone that you take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and you will feel that "I don't want any more, anything more. I am satisfied, fully satisfied."

Thank you very much. Any question?

Viṣṇujana: How do we render perfect service to Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: By your anxiety. (laughter, "Haribol!") If you are anxious to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is the real asset. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited. What service we can offer to Him? And He has got unlimited servants also. What service He requires from you and me? He's perfect in Himself. He doesn't require any service also. But if you are anxious to serve Him, then He does not refuse. That is His mercy; *that is His magnanimity. So the more you increase your anxiety to serve Kṛṣṇa, the more it becomes perfect. He's unlimited. Your anxiety, you become unlimited. So there is competition. The more you serve Kṛṣṇa, the more He accepts you and the more He gives you intelligence. You see? So the spiritual world is unlimited. There is no end of service, and there is no end of accepting the service. It is not that. So eagerness. Tatra laulyam eka mūlyam. I am not manufacturing the answer, but I am giving you evidence from Rūpa Gosvāmī, our ācārya. He says, kṛṣṇa*-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate: "My dear gentlemen, my dear boys and girls, if you can purchase a..., your sense of loving Kṛṣṇa-'How I can love Kṛṣṇa more and more'-this, this much, this anxiety, if you can purchase this matiḥ,"-means intelligence; *it is very nice intelligence-" 'How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa...' " Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ. Matiḥ means intelligence or status of mind, that "I'll serve Kṛṣṇa." "If you can purchase this status of mind anywhere, please immediately purchase." Then next question will be, "All right, I shall purchase. What is the price, do you know?" "Yes, I know what is the price." "What is that price?" "Laulyam, simply your eagerness, that's all." Laulyam ekaṁ mūlyam. "Ah, that I can have." No. Na janma koṭibhis sukṛtibhir labhyate. This eagerness, how to love Kṛṣṇa, this is not available even after many, many births. So if you have a pinch of that anxiety, "How I can serve Kṛṣṇa?" you must know you are the most fortunate man. A pinch only, laulya, this anxiety, "How I can serve Kṛṣṇa?" it is very nice. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence.



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi tam...

[Bg. 10.10]



*"Anyone who is engaged with love and affection in My service, without any hypocrisy," then Kṛṣṇa can understand everything. He is within me, within you. Then He will give you intelligence: "My dear boy, you do like this." And by doing that, what he will achieve? Yena mām upayānti te: "He'll come back to Me." And what profit he will get by going there? Ah, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. There are so many. Please read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You'll get perfect knowledge, the science of God. That is the only study for human being.



*So simply your eagerness is the perfection for serving Kṛṣṇa. Increase that eagerness. And eagerness means if you love Kṛṣṇa, that eagerness will increase with your increase of love: "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa?" Because you are voluntary servant, nobody is forcing. That means unless you love Kṛṣṇa, how that eagerness will increase? So there are so many things to love Kṛṣṇa. Beginning is this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. This śravaṇam, hearing, and chanting. Hearing, you are hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa, you are hearing Bhagavad*-gītā, you are hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about Kṛṣṇa, and chanting. This is the beginning. Then, naturally,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*These nine kinds of different varieties of service to Kṛṣṇa will enlighten you, will advance you in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and your life will be successful. Any other question? Try to understand, question. It is not a thing that we are forcibly pushing. You have got intelligence. Kṛṣṇa has given you intelligence. Try to understand with your intelligence but do not try to avoid. Make your question to understand it, not making question to avoid it. There are two kinds of question. That question will not help you. If you try to avoid, then Kṛṣṇa will help you to avoid, and if you want to capture Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will help you how you can capture. Two things are going on. Whatever path you want, you can accept. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Kṛṣṇa helps according to the person's attitude. If... There are... Just like so many philosophers, they want to forget Kṛṣṇa. Just like you will find in Dr. Radhakrishnan's book, in the Ninth Chapter Kṛṣṇa said, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. The translation is all right, but he comments, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa that you have to surrender." Just see. That means his whole process of writing the book is to mislead persons how one can forget Kṛṣṇa. So if anyone wants to forget Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give him such intelligence that he will never be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if anyone tries to love Kṛṣṇa, understand Kṛṣṇa, He'll give full of intelligence. You can understand. That is Kṛṣṇa. You have got full liberty. But if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then you have to serve māyā, and if you love Kṛṣṇa, then māyā will leave you.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, after Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, in the *Teachings of Lord Caitanya* it says He met His mother. I always thought that a sannyāsī could not do that.



Prabhupāda: No, a sannyāsī cannot meet his wife. A sannyāsī is forbidden to go home, and never meet his wife, but he can meet if other... But that... Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go to His home. It is by arrangement. Advaita Prabhu brought His mother to see Caitanya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after accepting sannyāsa He was just like mad after Kṛṣṇa. He was going on the shore of the Ganges forgetting that this is Ganges. He thought that "This is Yamunā. I am going to Vṛndāvana, following the..." So Nityānanda Prabhu sent one man, that "I am following Caitanya. Please inform Advaita to bring one boat in some ghāṭa so that He'll be able to take Him to His home." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in ecstasy. Then He saw all of a sudden that Advaita was waiting with a boat. So He asked Him, "Advaita, why You are here? Here, it is Yamunā." Advaita said, "Yes, My dear Lord, wherever You are it is Yamunā. So You come with Me." So He went, and when He went He went to Advaita's home. Then He saw, "You have misled Me. You have brought Me at Your home. It is not Vṛndāvana. How is that?" "All right, Sir, You have come by mistake, so...," (laughter) "please remain here." So He immediately sent one man to His mother. Because He knew that Caitanya Mahāprabhu has accepted sannyāsa; *He's never coming back again to home. So His mother is mad after the son. He was the only son. So He gave a chance to His mother to see Him for the last time. That was arranged by Advaita. So when mother came, Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately fell down on the feet of His mother. He was a young man, twenty*-four years old, and the mother, when she saw that her son has accepted sannyāsa, there is daughter-in-law at home, naturally woman, she was very much affected, began to cry. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu tried to pacify her with very nice words. He said, "My dear mother, this body is given by you, so I should have engaged My body in your service. But I am your foolish son. I have done some mistake. Please excuse Me." So that scene is very pathetic-separation between mother and son. (long pause) All right, chant. Chant loudly. Loudly. (kīrtana) (prema-dhvanī) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Today's kīrtana?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We collected fifty dollars.



Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh, that's nice. And Back to Godhead? How many copies sold, Back to Godhead?



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About fifty*-two.



Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. What is that? (end)





681007LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, October 7, 1968



*Prabhupāda: (sings) Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees repeat) So we are worshiping Govindam, the reservoir of all pleasures, Govinda, Kṛṣṇa. And He is ādi-puruṣaṁ, the original person. So govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Bhajāmi means "I worship," "I surrender unto Him and I agree to love Him." These are the terms offered by hymns by Brahmā. That Brahma-saṁhitā is a, considerably a large book. The first verse in the Fifth Chapter it is said that the Lord, Govinda, He has got His particular planet, which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. It is beyond this material sky. This material sky you can see as far as your vision go, but beyond that material sky there is spiritual sky. This material sky is covered by material energy, mahat-tattva, and there are seven layers of covering of earth, water, fire, air. And beyond that covering there is an ocean, and beyond that ocean the spiritual sky begins. And in that spiritual sky, the highest planet is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. These things are described in the Vedic literature, in the Bhagavad-gītā also. Bhagavad-gītā is very well known book. There also it is stated,



na yatra bhāsayate sūryo

na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

[Bg. 15.6]



*In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that there is another spiritual sky, where there is no need of sunshine. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryo. Sūrya means sun, and bhāsayate means distributing the sunshine. So there is no need of sunshine. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko. Śaśāṅka means moon. Neither there is need of moonlight. Na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ. Neither there is need of electricity. That means the kingdom of light. Here, this material world is kingdom of darkness. That you know everyone. It is actually darkness. As soon as there is sun on the other side of this earth, it is darkness. That means by nature it is dark. Simply by sunshine, moonshine, and electricity we are keeping it light. Actually, it is darkness. And darkness means ignorance also. Just like at night people are more ignorant. We are ignorant, but at night we are more ignorant. So Vedic instruction is tamasi mā jyotir gama. The Vedas say, "Don't remain in this darkness. Just transfer yourself to the kingdom of light." And the Bhagavad-gītā also says that there is a special sky, or a spiritual sky, where there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonlight, there is no need of electricity, and-yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]*-and if anyone goes to that kingdom of light, he never comes back again to this kingdom of darkness.



*So how we can transfer into that kingdom of light? The whole human civilization is based on these principles. The Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Atha ataḥ. "Therefore you should now inquire about Brahman, the Absolute." "Therefore now" means... Every word is significant. "Therefore" means because you have got this human body-"therefore." And ataḥ means "hereafter." "Hereafter" means you have passed through many, many lives, 8,400,000 species of life. Aquatics-900,000. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. This is the... Darwin has taken the idea of evolution from this Padma Purāṇa. You won't find any philosophy, any doctrine in the world which is not found in the Vedic literature. It is so perfect, everything is there. So the anthropomorphism or-what is called?-anthropology... Anthropology of Darwin is there in the Padma Purāṇa. It is very nicely described. Darwin cannot explain what are the number of the species of different, but Padma Purāṇa states that there are 900,000 species of life within water, within the ocean. And above the ocean, as soon as the ocean water is dried up, the land is coming out, immediately the vegetation begins. Different types of plants and trees then come out. So jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Two millions, lakṣa-viṁśati, twenty hundred thousand. That is two million? Anyway... Sthāvarā lakṣa. Sthāvarā means those who cannot move. There are different types of living entities. The trees, the plants, they cannot move. The other type of living entities, just like the birds, the beasts, the human being, they can move. So sthāvarā and jaṅgama. Jaṅgama means those who can move, and sthāvarā means those who cannot move. The hills, the mountains, they are also amongst the sthāvarās. They are also living entities. There are many hills, they are growing. That means there is life, but in the lowest stage of: stone. So in this way we are making progress. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Reptiles and worms. Rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ means eleven hundred thousands. Then from reptiles, worms, the wings grow-birds. From wings grow... Then it comes to the bird's life. Pakśiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam: ten hundred thousands of birds. And then paśavaḥ triṁśal-lakṣāṇi, four-legged animals, there are thirty hundred thousand. So nine and twenty, twenty-nine, then eleven, forty, then birds, ten, fifty, beasts, thirty, eighty-eighty hundred thousands. And then... Eight millions-and four hundred thousand species of human life. Human life is not in large quantity. Out of that, mostly they are uncivilized, and very few Aryan families. The Aryan family-the Indo-European family, they are also Aryan*-they are very few. The Europeans, they belong to the Indo-European group. The Americans, they also come from Europe. So this group of human society is very few. There are other, many uncivilized groups. Therefore Vedānta says, atha ataḥ: now you have got developed human form of life, civilized life, you have got nice arrangement for your comfortable life. Especially in America you have got all material comforts. You have got cars, you have got good road, nice food, nice building, nice dress, nice feature of your body. Everything God has given you very nice. The Vedānta advises, "Now you take to about the inquiry of Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā.

*This is applicable for everyone, civilized men. I don't speak of the Americans, in Europe, in Asia. Anywhere. Aryans means those who are advanced. Non*-Aryans means those who are not ad... This is the Sanskrit meaning, ārya. And śūdras... Aryans are divided into four castes. The most intelligent class is called brāhmaṇa, and the less than the brāhmaṇas means those who are administrators, politicians, they are kṣatriyas. And next to them the mercantile class, traders, merchants, industrialists, less than the administrative class. And less than that, the śūdras. Śūdras means worker, laborer. So this system is not new. It is everywhere. Wherever there is human society, these four classes of men are there. Sometimes I am questioned why there is caste system in India. Well, this caste system is there. It is by nature. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: [Bg. 4.13] "The four classes of men are there. That is My law." How they are four classes? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Guṇa means quality, and karma means work. If you have got very nice quality, intelligence, brahminical qualities... Brahminical qualities means if you speak truth, you are very clean and you are self-controlled, your mind is in equilibrium, you are tolerant, and so many qual... You believe in God, you know scriptures practically. These qualities are for the higher class, brāhmaṇa. The first qualification of a brāhmaṇa is that he's truthful. He'll disclose everything even to his enemy. He'll never, I mean to say, hide anything. Satyam. Śaucam, very clean. A brāhmaṇa is expected to take bath daily thrice and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bahyābhyantara, clean outside, clean inside. These are qualities. So when these opportunities are there, then the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedānta advises, "Now you begin to inquire about Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā.

*Athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one has reached to the material perfection, then the next business is to inquire. If we do not inquire, if we do not try to understand what is Brahman, then we must be frustrated. Because the hankering is there, advancement, advancement of knowledge. The theory of advancement of knowledge is that nobody should be satisfied by the knowledge, what he already knows. He must know more and more. So in your country in comparison to other countries at the present age, you have advanced materially very nicely. Now you take to this brahma*-jijñāsā, inquiry about the Supreme Absolute: What is that Absolute? What I am? I am also Brahman. Because I am part and parcel of Brahman, therefore I am also Brahman. Just like part and parcel, a little particle of gold is also gold. It is no other thing. Similarly, we are also particle of Brahman or the Supreme. Just like the molecules of sunshine, they are also as illuminating as the sun globe, but they are very small. Similarly, we living entities, we are also the same as God. But He is just like as big as the sun globe or the deity in the sun globe, but we are small particles, the molecules of sunshine. This is the comparison between the Supreme and us. We cannot become the Supreme. At least, we don't find in authorized Vedic literature that a living entity can become as powerful as God. No. It is not possible. God is great. He's always great. Even if you are liberated from the material clutches, still He is great. That is... Therefore this verse, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Our perpetual relationship with God is to worship Him, or to serve Him. That service is very pleasant. Don't take it... As soon as we talk of service, we may think that "Oh, we are suffering here by adopting service." Just like the other evening one boy was questioning, "Why should we bow down?" I do not know if he's present here. The bow down to surrender to somebody is not bad, but because we are in a different situation, by surrendering to other, it is very uncomfortable. Just like nobody wants to be dependent on other nation, nobody wants to be dependent on other people. Everyone wants to be independent, because this material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. But in the spiritual world, the more you surrender, the more you are servant, you are happy. You are happy. But we have no such understanding at the present moment. We have no spiritual idea, no spiritual realization; *therefore we shudder as soon as we hear that we have to become servant of God. But there is no question of shuddering. It is very pleasant to become servant of God. You see so many reformers, they came, they served the mission of God, and they are still worshiped. So to become servant of God, servitor of God, is not very insignificant thing. It is the most important thing. Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. But don't accept it. First of all try to understand. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Try to understand what is Brahman. (microphone is making sound) Why this sound? Try to understand what is Brahman and try to understand your relationship. And then, when you actually surrender, you'll feel your eternal blissful life, full of knowledge.

*And this is very nicely explained in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, the same teaching is there, but... We have got two books already published, one, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is; *another book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Bhagavad*-gītā teaches surrendering process. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "You surrender unto Me," the Lord says. And the Lord teachings, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is how to make surrender. Because we have been accustomed in our present conditional life to revolt against surrender. There are so many parties, so many "isms," and the main principle is that "Why shall I surrender?" That is the main disease. Whatever political party is there... Just like the Communist party. Their revolt is against the superior authority they call capitalists. "Why shall we..." Everywhere, the same thing is, "Why shall I surrender?" But we have to surrender. That is our constitutional position. If I don't surrender to some particular person or particular government or particular community or society or something, but ultimately I am surrendered. I am surrendered to the laws of nature. There is no independence. I have to surrender. When there is call of the cruel hands of death, immediately I have to surrender. So many things. So we should understand... This is brahma-jijñāsā, that "Why there is the surrendering process?" If I don't like to surrender, then I am forced to surrender. In the state also, if I don't mean to abide by the laws of the state, the state obliges me to surrender by police force, by military force, by so many things. Similarly, I don't want to die, but death forces me to surrender. I don't want to become old man, but nature forces me to become old. I don't want any disease, but nature forces me to accept some sort of disease. So this surrendering process is there. Now we have to understand why this is so. That means my constitutional position is to surrender, but the present difficulty is that I'm surrendering to a wrong person. When we understand that I should surrender to the Supreme Lord, then my constitutional position is revived. That is my liberty.

*I do not know that my position is to surrender, and that surrendering principle is my life, is my happy life. Just like a small child, if he surrenders to the wishes of the parents, his life is very pleasing, very happy. A young girl, if she surrenders to the wishes of the parents, and... That is the system, Vedic system. A woman, by nature, is dependent. Artificially, if woman wants liberty, then his (her) life is unhappy, her life is unhappy. Therefore Vedic system is... I am not manufacturing, I am speaking authorizedly on the Vedic principle. The Manu*-saṁhitā, the law of Vedas, Manu, the master of the humankind, Manu... Manu is the father of the mankind. So he has got his lawbook. That Manu-saṁhitā lawbook is still followed in India so far as the Hindus are concerned. So in that book Manu-saṁhitā, it is stated, na striyaṁ svatantram arhati. He gives the law that woman should not be given independence. Then? What should be the life? The life should be so long she's not married, she must live under the guidance, dependent on the parents. And as soon as she is married, she should live dependent on her husband. And when the husband is gone out... Because according to Hindu system, the husband does not remain at home for all the days, till death. No. When children are grown up, he gives up wife and children and becomes a sannyāsī, just like I have become. I have my children, I have my grandsons, I have my wife still exist... But I have given up all connection. So how my wife is being maintained? Oh, she has got grown-up children. So there is no anxiety. So dependence is not bad if there is dependence on the proper place. No father neglects to look after the comforts of an unmarried girl, of his unmarried girls and boys. According to Hindu system, a father, mother responsibility ceases after he gets the children married, either daughter or son. So much obligation. Then they are free. So dependence, I am speaking on the dependence. So dependence is not bad; surrender is not bad. I have seen practically that woman surrendering to the husband... Still there are so many women in India, they are so happy and their life is so glorious. So we have to learn how things are to be done. Independence, artificial independence is no good always. Practically, we have no independence. I may think of independence, but practically I have no independence. I am servant of my senses. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśa. We are all serving the senses. So where is my independence? I may declare independence from my father, from my state, from my country, from my community, but I am servant of my senses. So where is my independence? So we should know our constitutional position, that in all circumstances we are dependent. Therefore the best method of my perfection of life is to become dependent on God, Kṛṣṇa. That is the solution of all problems. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Try to understand your constitutional position and be surrendered to God, to Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Very simple thing. The moment you surrender unto God, immediately you become happy. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.

So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not very difficult either to understand or to execute. Simply we shall be willing to do this. That's all. That willing is in your hand. If you like, you can accept it. Because you have got little independence to accept something or reject something. That independence you have got. And by rejecting something good, we are in distress, and accepting something good, we are happy. So this acceptance and rejection is in your hand. So here is the offering, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by great authorities, by Lord Kṛṣṇa, by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and we are humble servants only. We are simply distributing. We have not manufactured a new type of religious sect or method of philosophy. No. It is very, very old system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply we are trying to distribute in a process which can be accepted by the people in general. So our request to you all who are present here or who are not present here, that you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and if you do not understand immediately, if you kindly associate with us, put your questions, try to understand... We don't say that you blindly accept it. Put your question, try to understand, read our literature, and you'll understand. There is no doubt about it. And you'll take to it. And if you take to it, you'll be happy. In other processes... Just like a political creed. Unless it is nationally accepted... Just like there are so many political parties in every country. Everyone is trying to bring in the forefront the party politics because the leader cannot be successful unless the whole country accepts his philosophy, his party. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that it does not require that a community or a nation or a family or any group has to accept, then you will be happy. No. Individually, if you accept. If your family does not accept, if your community does not accept, if your country does not accept, it doesn't matter. You will be happy. But if your family accepts, if your community accepts, if your nation..., you will be more happy. So... Because it is absolute, independent, so any person takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be happy immediately. So we invite you. We have got classes, we have got different branches in different cities, we have got books, we have got magazines, and we try to convince you by our morning and evening classes. So my humble request to you all that you try to understand. Caitanyer dayā kathā karaha vicāra. We put for your judgment to understand. We put this Kṛṣṇa consciousness before you for your judgment. And if you scrutinizingly see and try to understand, then you'll feel, "Oh, it is so sublime. It is so nice." That is our request.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) So you have got any question, you can put. You have got any question? That girl. Anyone, if you have got any question.

*Jaya*-gopāla: Prabhupāda? How do we explain to impersonalists inductively the existence of the Personality of Godhead?



*Prabhupāda: This example I have given you several times. Just like you try to understand the sun. This is daily affair. Now when you try to understand what is this sun, you first of all come to the sunshine light. If you are covered with cloud and if you have not known what is sun, that is a different thing. Or even if it is covered, you can go up to the over the cloud and see the sunshine and sun. So the cloud is compared with māyā. So sun is compared with the kingdom of God, and the president of the sun planet is God. This is example. God is far away and He's the greatest. He has created so many millions of suns. But I am giving that example. Now to study the sun, first of all you come to the sunshine. The sunshine is distributed all over the universe, and the sun planet is situated in a localized place. And within the sun planet, there is the predominating deity who is called sun*-god. But if you want to study all these things, first of all you come to the sunshine. The sunshine is impersonal. Similarly, there is a transcendental rays from the planet where Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there. Just a few minutes before I recited one verse from Bhagavad-gītā that na tad bhāsayate sūryo [Bg. 15.6]. That means it is illuminating. There is no need of sunshine. Just like this planet is not illuminating; *therefore we want light from the sun, from the moon, from electricity. But Bhagavad*-gītā says that the planet of the Lord, there is no... Why planet? The sky. There is no need of sunshine. Every planet in the spiritual world is illuminating. So because every planet is illuminating, the whole spiritual sky is dazzling illumination. So one who approaches that dazzling illumination called brahmajyoti, they are called impersonalists. Is it clear?



*Jaya*-gopāla: But how does one show such an impersonalist with absolute proof logically? I was told Śrīla Bhaktivinoda has such a proof.



Prabhupāda: Apart from Bhaktivinoda, try to understand in your common sense.



*Jaya*-gopāla: Yes, I can see this.



Prabhupāda: Just like sun planet, there is sunshine. The sunshine is impersonal, but if you have got power to enter into the sun globe, then you will find there, there are so many persons, they have got fiery body. It is not a fact in other planets there is no life. That is a nonsense. Every planet there is life, but they have got different situation, different atmosphere. The moon planet is very cold. Even the modern scientists, they agree that the temperature in the moon planet is below two hundred degree zero. So it is very cold. Similarly, sun planet is very hot. Similarly, there are other planets which is made of air, some planets made of water. These five elements, earth, water, air, ether, this is the, these are the ingredients of material world. So some planet is made of something, some planet is made of something. But this earth is made of earth only, and water. So in the sunshine you see, you go by airplane, go in the "friendly sky" above the... You see everything impersonal. Simply glaring sunshine, that's all. But that does not mean it is impersonal. There are many planets within the sunshine, millions of planets, but you cannot see. Similarly, persons who cannot see beyond the brahmajyoti, the transcendental rays of the spiritual sky, they are impersonalists. They are impersonalists. But one who goes to the transcendental planets, Vaikuṇṭhas, Goloka Vṛndāvana, they see God is there person. As you are person, I am person, you'll find person.



*So it is poor fund of knowledge only that these conclude that the ultimate Absolute Truth is impersonal. No. Because Vedānta says, Vedānta*-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Supreme Absolute Truth, or Brahman, is that from whom everything generates, everything is born. Now, everything is born. Then you have got personality, I have got my personality, everyone has got personality. How you can think of Him that He is not person? We have got experience that a father is person, therefore his son is also person. So if we are born of the supreme father, then if we are person, how He can be imperson? It is simple reason. But His personality is different, our personality is different. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His body is different, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. His power is different, His potency is different. Different means that is all spiritual. The difference of spiritual matter we can understand that spirit is the basic principle of movement of matter. Because the spirit soul is within this body, therefore it is moving. Because the spirit soul is there within this body, therefore it is growing. So spirit soul is the basic principle of all material expansion. Similarly, God being full spirit, whole spirit, He is the basic principle of all cosmic manifestation, but He is person. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll read. Arjuna says that "It is very difficult to understand Your personality." People are bewildered, but He is person. And in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad and many other Upaniṣads it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām: (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) "He is the chief eternal amongst all eternals." That means we living entities, we are also eternals, but He is the chief eternal. So if we are persons, then He is also person. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says that "Myself, yourself, My dear Arjuna, and all these kings and soldiers who have come here, assembled here, they are all persons. They were all persons in the past, they are persons at present, and they will continue as persons in the future." These things are there. So individual soul or God, every one of us is person. Each and every one of us-person. Imperson is another feature of the person. Just like the same example. In sun planet there is person, the predominating deity, and his personal effulgence is the sunshine. The sunshine is imperson, but the planet is localized, and the predominating deity is person. The Bhagavata confirms it, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The Absolute Truth is one. Just like the sun, the sunshine, and the deity within the sun, that is one unit. But some portion is called sunshine, some portion is called sun planet, some portion is called the deity. Similarly, the Supreme Brahman is one. His person, His localized position, and His influence and energy, they are one. This is the śuddhādvaitavāda, pure monism. The Śaṅkarācārya's philosophy is monism, one, and Śrī Rāmānujācārya explains, "Yes, one-unity in diversity." So this is unity. The sun deity, the sun planet and the sunshine is one unit, but still, there is diversity. The division of the sunshine is different from the sun planet, the sun planet is different from the predominating deity in the sun planet. If you try to understand this way, then you will understand what is Paramātmā, the Supersoul; the individual soul; the impersonal Brahman; *the personal Brahman*-everything. Is that clear? So any other question? Yes?

Upendra: Prabhupāda, can you explain mahāmāyā and yogamāyā? Was Arjuna under yogamāyā or mahāmāyā?



Prabhupāda: Arjuna, when he was thinking in terms of his personal sense gratification, he was under mahāmāyā. And when he agreed to execute the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he's under yogamāyā.



Upendra: How is it Arjuna, if he was eternally liberated...



Prabhupāda: Because he is living entity, he is marginal. There is chance of... Marginal means... I have explained several times. Just like the land. Between the ocean and the land, there is a portion of land which is sometime merged within water, sometimes it is land. So a living entity's position is like that, marginal energy. He may be under the influence of yogamāyā or he may be under the influence of mahāmāyā. When he is under the influence of mahāmāyā, that is his conditional life. And when he is under the influence of yogamāyā, he's free. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) (end)





681009LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, October 9, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Why don't you sit on the chair if you feel inconvenient? I'm asking you. You can sit down on the chair. That's all right? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants) Govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*(repeats, devotees respond) So we are worshiping the ādi*-puruṣa, the first person. Generally, in grammatical knowledge, first person means "I." Here, first person means "the Supreme Lord," ādi-puruṣa, the original person, not the first person, original person. The original person is in the original planet. There is the original planet. Just like here the original planet, scientists accept the sun. Similarly, the sun is also one of the millions of many other suns. There are millions of sun. So sun, in the estimation of this universe, is the original planet. But there are innumerable universes, and in each and every universe there is a sun. So therefore there are innumerable sun and moons. That is accepted by the modern science, and it is stated in the Vedic literature also. So sun is not the original planet, but the original planet is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. But the sun has similarity. Just like the sun is shining, the shining planet, and on the sunshine there are other planets, they are moving by the heat of the sunshine in their orbit. So similarly, sun is also moving. According to modern science, sun is fixed up, but according to Vedic literature, sun is also moving.



*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā we understand the movements of the sun:

*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*The meaning of this verse is that "I worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead Govinda, asya ajñayā, by whose order this sun, which is considered to be the king of all planets..." Sun is the king of all planets. That is a known fact. Without sun, all these planets, they cannot live. Without sunshine, their life will be extinct. Therefore sun is described in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, rājā samasta-grahāṇām, of all the planets. And aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ means unlimited heat, fire. Unlimited fire. Nobody knows what is the source of this fire, but there is unlimited fire. Some ninety-three millions miles away from this planet, still, the heat is sometimes unbearable. Just see what is the fire. And it is so many times, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet, earthly planet. So Brahma-saṁhitā says in spite of the sun's so many, I mean to say, high qualification, it is moving under the order of Govinda. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. It has got its own orbit, it is moving, kāla-cakro. Kāla-cakro means limited. Nobody is unlimited. Just like we are also moving within the time limit, kāla-cakra. So the planet, this planet is moving, other planet is moving. Similarly, the sun planet is moving. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I think if I am not mistaken, the speed of the sun is sixteen thousand miles per second, but it is moving. Sixteen thousand miles per second it is moving. So Brahma-saṁhitā gives us this information. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Savitā means the sun planet. Yac-cakṣur eṣa. This savitā, the sun, is considered to be the eyes, one of the eyes of the Lord. In His universal form the sun is considered to be one of the eyes of the Lord, and the moon is also another eye. Take it figuratively or universal form of the Lord, but you cannot escape the seeing power of Govinda. He is seeing always. There are so many witnesses according to Vedic literature. So we cannot do anything hiding from the eyes of the Lord. He is seeing. He is witness. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: upadraṣṭā anumantā. Upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā means overseer. Overseer.



Now in our childhood... Not childhood. We were at that time college student, Scottish Churches College in Calcutta. So that is Christian college, Scottish Churches. So we had to read Bible also. There was a Bible class from 1:00 to 1:30. So I remember our professor, he was a great philosopher also, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. He was very nice man, very friendly. So he was explaining from Bible. I do not know... The Christians, they do not believe in karma. Is it a fact? They do not believe in karma?

Govinda dāsī: They have a verse that "You reap what you sow," which means whatever you do, you receive the reaction of. It's sort of...



*Prabhupāda: So... But karma is accepted? But I do not know. Dr. Urquhart was arguing that if I am suffering or enjoying as the effect of my previous life, so who is the witness? His argument was like this. Just like if I have committed some criminal act, in the court there is need of witness. Then one has to prove that somebody has seen that he has done this. This is simply a legal formality. Who is going to steal while keeping one witness? Nobody's going, but court wants that who has seen that he has stolen. Anyway, Dr. Urquhart's argument was that "Who is the witness? I am suffering the reaction of my previous bad or evil activities, but who is the witness?" But at that time we were not so intelligent. We could not answer. But later on, when we were grown up and studied Bhagavad*-gītā, then here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, we saw that upadraṣṭā. The Lord is upadraṣṭā, He is witness. Upadraṣṭā. Anumantā. Anumantā means ordering. You cannot do anything without being sanctioned by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have no power. Therefore we are, in all respect, we are dependent. That we have got very nice experience. This hand is moving, but if the power is withdrawn, I cannot move my hand. Therefore I am not independent to move my hand. So upadraṣṭā anumantā. We cannot do anything without being sanctioned by the Supreme Lord. There is an English word, that not even a grass moves without the sanction of the Lord. So that is a fact. So how one is doing nice thing and how one is doing evil things if He is the order giver? That is our independence. We can take sanction from the Lord. If we want to do something evil, I cannot do it without the sanction of the Supreme. Or even if I do something very nice, that also I cannot do without the sanction. So how the Lord gives such sanction? The sanction is like this: just like a child is crying to get something from the parent, and the parent, being disgusted, gives him something, "All right. Take it." Such kind of sanction. When we do something evil, the sanction is from the Lord, but it is not willing sanction. Against the will of the Lord. And when you do something in cooperation with the Lord, that is called bhakti. We are doing everything... In the material world we are doing everything, all nonsense for sense gratification. There is also sanction of the Lord, but that is unwilling sanction. But when we execute devotional service, loving devotional service, that is very pleasing to the Lord.



*So the bhakti*-yoga means acting by pleasing the Lord. That's all. That is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You are not forbidden to do this thing or that thing, but you have to see only whether by your action the Supreme Lord is satisfied. That's all. That much knowledge you must have. Then your life will be successful. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā. This verse was spoken by Sūta Gosvāmī, who was speaking before a very learned gathering at Naimiṣāraṇya. It is the system of Vedic system, that... Not Vedic system; *everywhere, all over the world. Any civilized society there is nice speaker, learned speaker, and many persons hear him. That is the system from very old time. So Sūta Gosvāmī, he was representative of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the speaker of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, and he was addressing very learned brāhmaṇas. So he's addressing, dvija-śreṣṭhā. Śreṣṭhā means the, I mean to say, picked-up, the topmost of the brāhmaṇas. They were topmost of the brāhmaṇas; *still, they require knowledge. Knowledge is so nice that even if you think that you are very learned, you are well versed in everything, still, you require knowledge. That should be our motto. Don't think that "I have finished." Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught this lesson in His life, that He represented Himself as a fool. So everyone should think of himself that "I am still a fool." Just like it is said that Sir Isaac Newton... He was such a learned man, but he used to say that "I have simply collected a few grains of sand from the beach of knowledge." Knowledge is so vast that his knowledge was simply a few grains of the vast amount of sand of knowledge. So everyone should think like that. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kaj, the author, he says that "I am lowest than the germs in the stool. I have no knowledge." So the more you become advanced in knowledge, you'll know that how insignificant you are in comparison to the Supreme. Yes.



*So although they were learned brāhmaṇas, or dvija... Dvija means not only brāhmaṇas, but the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas. Kṣatriya means ruling class, administrative class, politicians. They are called kṣatriyas. And brāhmaṇas means learned scholar in philosophy, in science, in theology, they are brāhmaṇas. And kṣatriyas, and vaiśyas... Vaiśyas means traders, mercantile people. And śūdras means worker, laborer. So the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they are called dvija. Dvija means twice*-born. The śūdras, those who are once born simply by the father and mother, they are called śūdras. They are not counted amongst the higher class. But those who are twice-born. That means once born by the father and mother, and the second birth is the spiritual father and Vedic knowledge. Once born by this material bodily father and mother, and the second birth is Vedic knowledge, the mother, and the spiritual master, the father. So that is second birth. So second birth, those who accept the second birth, they are called dvija, twice-born. So he is addressing dvija. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā: the topmost of the twice-born. Topmost of the twice-born means brāhmaṇa also, or these three classes. Take it for granted that the brāhmaṇas. But the next line is, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are four kinds of classification: the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, and the śūdras, and... This is called varṇa. And āśrama, āśrama means spiritual situation: the brahmacārī, the gṛhastha, the vānaprastha, and the sannyāsī. They are spiritually situated. So anyone, either a brahmacārī or a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya or anyone, he will fall down in either of these eight divisions of human social order. So Sūta Gosvāmī said that anyone, that means anyone, must have some occupation. Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. If you are engineer, then you have got some occupation. If you are medical man, you have got some occupation. If you are a philosopher, you have got some occupation. If you are laborer, worker, you have got some occupation. Even if you are a thief, you have got some occupation. So everyone has got occupation. So just see how nice it is. So Bhāgavata says, it doesn't matter what is your occupation, but simply try to see whether by your activities or a particular type of occupation you have satisfied the Supreme Lord. That's all. Then,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*Hari*-toṣaṇam: that your perfection of life will be considered in relation with the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. That you have to learn, how you are satisfying the Supreme Lord.



*Now at the present moment, immediately... We were, of course, taking Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was present before Arjuna. So he was receiving direct order, He was speaking directly. But if somebody says that "How I can know that I am satisfying the Supreme Lord, because the Lord is not directly present before me?" this argument is not a very strong argument. The Lord is present by His words. Just like in your Bible, there are ten commandments. So if you follow... Just like the state is present by the lawbooks. If you follow the law, then you are satisfying the state. Just like "Keep to the right." If you are following the rules, you are keeping your car on the right side, you are stopping when there is red light, that means if you are satisfying the regulation, then you are satisfying the state. Similarly, if you satisfy the regulative principles, then you are satisfying the Lord. It is very nice. It is very simple thing. But you must try to satisfy. Whether by your work, by your activity, you have satisfied, then your life is perfect. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya. It doesn't matter whatever you are doing, but you have to see whether by your action the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied.

*Now, to facilitate these activities of the human being, there is spiritual master. Spiritual master is the representative of God. Therefore Vedic literature says, tad*-vijñānārtham. In order to understand whether God is being satisfied or not, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12], one must approach a spiritual master in order to know. Because my life is meant for satisfying God, but understanding that God is not present in my front, I cannot see Him face to face, how can I know that He is satisfied or not? But there are books, scriptures, literatures. Apart from that, the Vedic injunction is that tad-vijñānārtham. In order to understand whether your action or activities has pleased the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you have to take information from the guru, or the spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. Abhigacchet means "must." And in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī's prayer for the spiritual master, this is also said: yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasāda. The last version of his prayer is yasya, "whose"; prasādāt, "satisfaction"; *bhagavat*-prasāda, "the Supreme Lord is satisfied." This is the test. If by your action... Because when you accept a spiritual master, then you have to work under his guidance. There are so many, I mean to say, rules and regulation. But ādau gurvāśrayam. The first thing is to accept a spiritual master. And if you have got a bona fide spiritual master, then it is to be understood that you have approached God because he is His representative. And if you act according to his direction, then it is to be understood that you are satisfying the Lord. This is the way, Vedic way. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasāda yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If you cannot find out a bona fide spiritual master or if you cannot satisfy the bona fide spiritual master, then you must know you do not know where you are going. Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī says, dhyāyan stuvaṁs tasya guṇārṇavasya vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. This is the process.

*So we, we should make this our goal of life, how to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. This is the real purport. We chant this, that we are trying to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. There are so many verses of this govindam ādi-puruṣam, the Brahma-saṁhitā. And Bhagavad-gītā also, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. So there is immense knowledge of understanding. It is a great science, science of God. So if anyone is interested about understanding the science of God, then he should take seriously this movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now one may question, "Why should I be interested to understand the science of God? Why not to understand the science of so many material things? Why one should be..." No. This is the necessity. That is the Vedānta's injunction. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the opportunity. This human form of life is the opportunity to understand the science of the Absolute. Either you say God or Absolute Truth or the Supersoul, the same thing. But this life is meant for understanding. If we miss this opportunity, we do not know where we are going. The defect of the modern civilization is they don't care. Hedonism, Cārvāka's theory. There was, long, long before, there was an atheist philosopher. As there are many atheist philosophers nowadays, in former days also. He was known as Cārvāka Muni. According to his opinion, he says that don't care for next life. Don't care. Bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet. He says... Because according to Vedic system, the body is burned after death. As you bury underground... There are three processes everywhere. Somebody throws away for being eaten up by birds, or somebody puts within the ground, or somebody burns it. So Cārvāka Muni says that "After burning this body, who is coming and who is responsible? You see. You live merrily as far as possible. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. If you have no money, then borrow or steal, but live very nicely for sense pleasure." That is Cārvāka Muni's theory, and mostly, at the present moment, that theory is being followed. But the question is that Cārvāka Muni says there is no next life. What is the proof? Does it mean that his word is proof that there is no next life? Then everyone will say something. Of course, that is being accepted. Anyone discovers or says something nonsense, it is accepted.

*But the process of Vedic understanding is not like that. You have to accept knowledge from the authority. Therefore the Vedic system has rejected the Cārvāka Muni. He has no authority. He is authority himself. He says that there is no life, but what is the proof? But there are many proofs that there is next life. So who will accept Cārvāka Muni's theory? Nobody. No sane man will accept. And suppose if there is life. There are two philosophers: one says that there is no life, other says there is life. Now we have to study both, if there is life and if there is no life. But if there is life, the next answer to Cārvāka theory, if there is life, then if I'm working irresponsibly, then I am becoming victim to my next life. So there are... But we have to take from the authority. Just like the Bhagavad*-gītā says that na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin: "The soul is never born and never dies." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "Even after the annihilation of this body there is no destruction of the soul." And soul is migrating in different species of life. So we have to take Kṛṣṇa the authority, Veda-Vyāsa the authority. There are many such authorities. So there is next life. There is no doubt. The practical proof there is... And Kṛṣṇa has given many proof. I have spoken in this meeting many times. There is next life. So we should be responsible. This human form of life should not be wasted simply for sense gratification. That sense gratification facility is in every... Even in the cats and dogs, there is that facility. By nature it is already arranged. But the special qualification of this human form of life is to know himself, and to try to understand that "Why I am in miserable condition? Wherefrom I have come? Where I have to go? What is God? What is this world?" This is called Vedānta. Vedānta means to understand all these things.

*So Veda means knowledge and anta means the last stage of understanding. So last stage of understanding is Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam or Vedānta. So our request... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we are requesting everyone that you do not spoil your life in pursuit of sense gratification like animals, but think that this life is very responsible life. You try to understand yourself, what you are, why you are put into this miserable condition of material existence, if there is any remedy. There is remedy. So we must take advantage of it and make our life successful.

Thank you very much. Any question?

Young man: If our first concern should be to serve God, or Kṛṣṇa, then why should there be a movement...



Prabhupāda: Because you do not know.



Young man: Well, you do it... You're telling people out of...



Prabhupāda: Certainly. Kṛṣṇa also tells. Kṛṣṇa tells. Kṛṣṇa comes Himself.



Young man: But you might get so caught up in the movement that you're forgetting about you're serving God. Is this...



Prabhupāda: Why? I am serving God. This movement means I am serving God. What do you mean by serving? If Kṛṣṇa says that "You obey Me," and if I say that "You obey Kṛṣṇa," is it not service?



Young man: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: If your father says, "My dear boy, you obey me," and if your oldest brother says, "My dear brother, you obey father," is it not service to the father? So we are doing the same business. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other engagements, just surrender unto Me. I shall give you protection." And we are saying the same thing, that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa and you'll be happy. So we are voluntarily giving service to Kṛṣṇa; *therefore it is service. Preaching work is the best service, if you preach rightly. If you preach wrongly, that is disservice. You have to simply say the same thing as Kṛṣṇa has said. Kṛṣṇa has said that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: "You simply surrender unto Me." So we have to say the same thing, that "You simply surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." Then it is all right. If I add something by my concoction, then it is not service. If I say, "You don't serve Kṛṣṇa. You serve me. I am God," then I am going to hell. We have to say, "You serve Kṛṣṇa." I have no right to accept any service from you, but I can accept anything on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. That is the spiritual master position. So what is your question?



Young man: The movement might get in the way of serving Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is service of Kṛṣṇa. Because... You have understood. What Kṛṣṇa wants, we are preaching the same thing.



Young man: Was there always a kind of a movement?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, the movement is always there. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,



yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



He says, "My dear Arjuna, whenever people are misguided and there is too much manifestation of irreligiosity, at that time I appear Myself." So this movement... This material world is such that suppose one thing is now set right, but still, the time is so cruel, after some time it will be distorted. This is the way of material existence. Therefore movement is required. Whenever there is deterioration of the real truth, there is necessity of movement. But the same movement, not a new movement. The movement means God is there, He is great, we are all subordinate; therefore our duty is to abide by the order of God. Then we are happy. The movement is very simple. There is no misunderstanding. The same movement was preached by Lord Kṛṣṇa. The same movement was preached by Lord Jesus Christ. The same movement we are also preaching. So there is no difference: simply accepting the authority or the greatness of the Supreme Lord and engage ourself. That's it. There is nothing new. You don't try to see something new. It is not new. It is the oldest because God is oldest, you are oldest, and your relationship is also oldest. Therefore the movement is also oldest. You cannot manufacture anything new. People are after something new. What new you'll have? Everything is old. The sun is old, the world is old, the moon is old, the atmospheric change is also old, the seasonal change is... What is new there? Millions of years ago there was sun, and still the sun is there. At that time the sun was hot; still it is hot. At that time people were dying; *people are still dying. So what is new? It is simply waste of time for manufacturing something new. A concoction. There is nothing new. The old law is doing... History repeats itself. That is well known to everyone. So our movement is not new. It is the same movement, that you accept the supreme authority of God or Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But the process adopted is suitable for this time. That is also not new, not manufactured. It is recommended that in this age... Just like during winter season the process is to protect your body from being affected of cold. So that process is not new. Similarly, in this age... This age is called Kali*-yuga. So it is recommended, kalau tad hari-saṅkīrtana, where God realization is only possible by this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simple process. You come on. Sit down. It doesn't matter what you are, whether you are Indian or you are American, or Christian, or Hindu, or man, woman, black, white. It doesn't matter. You simply come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize God. Because in this age very severe method cannot be followed. The people are so fallen that even four principles we have ordered, that "Don't take meat, don't have illicit sex life, don't participate in gambling, and don't," I mean to say... What is the other?



Govinda dāsī: Intoxication.



*Prabhupāda: Intoxication. Oh, it is very difficult. Why they avoid Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Just like our friend Allen Ginsberg, he says, "Swamijī is very conservative." And so many friends, they ask me, "Swamijī, why you impose these rules?" You see? The people are so unable. Their inability is so strong that these four principles only... You want sex life? All right. We say that you get yourself married. But that is also difficult. Intoxication? Nobody has learned smoking from the beginning of his life. It is simply by association. So if you associate with us, you'll forget smoking, drinking. It was learned by association, you can forget it by association. No child used to eat meat from the very birth. It was milk. So this is all artificial, the so*-called conventions of human society. Natural life does not allow all these things. So by good or bad association you have acquired so many artificial, I mean to say, habits. So simply by association you can forget also. Then you come to the pure life. And God is pure. Just like without being heated, you cannot stand in a place which is very heated. The temperature must be the same. This is known to everyone. So God is pure. You cannot approach God being impure. So the whole process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is purificatory process. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka means senses, and Hṛṣīkeśa means the master of the senses, the Lord of the senses, Kṛṣṇa. So by engaging your senses in the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. Now, how you can do that? Tat-paratvena nirmalam. You have to simply purify. Then it is easily possible. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to adopt the purificatory process, and then you have got natural engagement in the service of the Lord, your life is perfect. Yes?



Young man (2): You mentioned that it was natural for a child to drink milk and not eat the meat of an animal. And you stressed natural. Is it natural for a child to grow up and then shave his head and serve God, or is it just a form of socialization?



Prabhupāda: No, it is natural. Because he is fond of his mother, fond of his father. So we should be fond of our, the supreme father. That's all. It is natural. No child you can see, he's not fond of his father and mother. When he's grown up, when he associates with his friends, he tries to forget his father and mother. But at the beginning... Oh... The other day I was citing the example, naturally, our natural affection. Father's affection is there, mother's affection is there, child's affection is there. So father, mother never forgets the affection, but child forgets by bad association. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa does not forget us, but we have forgotten. So this process is to revive our natural position to love Kṛṣṇa. Now we are unnatural, in unnatural condition, forgetting Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring back everyone to his original consciousness, affection, love between the child and the father. And that is the best service to the society. Suppose a child... Nobody is greater than God, and we are all children of God. Therefore we are children of the richest man, because who can be richer than God? Who can be powerful than God? And we are sons of God. So... But we have forgotten. Just like a boy, from his childhood he has left his home, very rich father. Loitering in the street, he has no sufficient food, sufficient clothing. So somebody sees, "Oh, this boy belongs to that rich man. He is living in such wretched condition." So the best service to that boy is to bring back to his father. Not that "My dear boy, I know that you are very rich man's son. You have now forgotten. You have no proper eating. I am giving you a morsel of bread. You eat it." That is also a service. But the best service is to bring him back to his rich father. Similarly, people are trying to serve the human society by so many morsel of food. That's all. And we are trying to bring back to his father. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best service to the humanity, because his all problem will be solved as soon as he goes back to his father. No more problem. Therefore everyone should take seriously about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Yes?



Young man (3): I saw a card last night which said, "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Inc." A friend of mine asked me why the word "Incorporated"?



Prabhupāda: Because you want it.



Young man (3): Pardon?



Prabhupāda: Because you want it incorporated. Your state wants it. Your state means you.



Young man (3): The Washington state government.



Prabhupāda: Yes, government wants it. You cannot be revolting against the government. (chuckling) You have to live keeping pace with the government. We are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That does not mean we shall not use this electricity, we shall not take an apartment or we shall not sleep. Something unnatural we have to do. Why? Everyone abides by the law. We have to abide by the law. There is no difficulty. And government provides that religious society or this society, they should get themselves incorporated so that it is recognized. In so many activities they want to know whether this society is recognized. So we have to take all these measures. We cannot go out of the purview of the general rules and regulations.



Young man (4): The sādhus in India who have long hair and wander in the woods and stuff, I guess, do they have spiritual teachers? The sādhus in India. The ones who live in the forest and places like that? You know? Wander around...



Prabhupāda: Of course, those who are living in the forest, there is no barber. Naturally they have got long hairs. But why the sādhus in the city imitate them? There is no meaning. If a man is living in the forest, there is no facility of the barber. So he can keep long hairs. Why in the city?



Young man (4): No, I didn't mean the hair. I meant does a sādhu who lives in the woods, does he have a spiritual master or...



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.



Young man (4): How does he live in the woods without a spiritual master and learn?



Prabhupāda: No. In the woods also there are many saintly persons. People go there, accept spiritual master, and live with the spiritual master. But that is not very much convenient in this age. So in this age nobody is going to the forest to find out spiritual master, but the spiritual master has to come and canvass from India to New York. (laughter) This is a different position. Yes?



Young man (5): You said that everybody who has laws should live under them. Does an individual have a right to choose his own laws?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you go pass "Keep to the right," you have got the right also to go to the left. But as soon as you go to the left, you are criminal. That's all.



Young man (5): But taking one of the commandments of the Christian Bible, "Thou shall not kill," and applying that to a federal law or our American scriptures, there you have two laws that are not stemming from the same law, with different interpretations...



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The law in the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." But the federal law of the United States says you must go into the Army and kill. So which to follow? There is a difference. They both say opposite things.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The thing is... It is very simple to understand that... Just like a soldier is killing and the state is awarding him medal. And the same soldier when comes home, if he kills somebody, he's hanged. Why? He can say, "When I was in the war field, I have killed hundreds of men and I was given gold medal. And now I have killed simply one man I am going to be hanged? Why?" So it is the cause. If the cause if great, then killing is no sin.



Young man (5): How does one interpret if the cause is great?



*Prabhupāda: By satisfy... That I have already explained. Saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. You have to see whether God is satisfied. That cause is great. Perfection of your activity will be judged whether by your action God is satisfied.



Young man (5): But you say that the way we hear from God is through words. And if these words are printed by the men that are making you fight, that's by the men that are making you fight. I have no assurance that it's the word of God unless every movement is God movement. Therefore...



Prabhupāda: No, I don't say this movement or that movement. The general principle is that if you think by certain type of fighting God is not satisfied, then you should not fight. But if in some fighting God is satisfied, then you should fight. We do not say anything outright that this is bad or this is good. We say, anything that has given satisfaction to God, Kṛṣṇa, that is good. Anything which has not given satisfaction to Kṛṣṇa or God, that is bad. Now you have to judge yourself how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. That requires training; *that requires understanding. But the standard of... The same example, that the same state, the same man, when he was fighting in the battlefield, he was being elevated to higher position, rewarded. But same man coming back from the battlefield, he has killed somebody, some of his neighbor, he's hanged. But the same state is there. But man is there, the action is there, the same, but why the judgment is different? Similarly, we have to satisfy the great, and the greatest of the great is God, or Kṛṣṇa. If by your action Kṛṣṇa, God, is satisfied, then it is all right. I don't say that this fight is good, that fight is bad. Fight or no fight. Even without fighting, he may be bad. Just like the instruction which we get from Bhagavad*-gītā, Arjuna was denying to fight and he was considered by Kṛṣṇa bad, because He was not satisfied. This is the evidence. And when Arjuna decided to fight to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it was taken as good. So whole thing should be tested, judged, by the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. The perfection of any action... In the material world, "This thing is good," "This thing is bad," that is our mental concoction. Everything is bad here. Everything is bad. We have simply manufactured by our own imagination that "This is good," "This is bad." But to keep pace with the human society or peace in the human society, there is necessity of doing or adopting something which is approved by somebody, or the state. That is different thing. That is material. But actually at the ultimate end, as we have cited the quotation from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, good or bad means satisfaction or dissatisfaction of the Lord. If any action is approved or gives satisfaction to the Lord, that is good. If any action gives dissatisfaction to the Lord, it is bad. That is the general. Now you have to adopt yourself in the service of the Lord in such a way that you can know that this action is giving satisfaction and this action is not giving satisfaction. Then your life is all right.



Viṣṇujana: Then all our faculties of perception will be purified by adopting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and we can understand.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means purification of all faculties. Because the faculties work on the basis of consciousness. If your consciousness is pure... Just like I am seeing. I am not seeing; my mind is seeing. So if my mind is pure, then my seeing is pure. Similarly, if my consciousness is pure, my mind is pure. It is superficial. I am moving my hand. I am not moving; my mind is moving. So all the senses, ten senses... And the central sense is mind. And behind mind, there is intelligence, and behind intelligence, there is consciousness. This consciousness, if purified, then whole thing is purified. If this consciousness is polluted, then the whole thing is polluted. So we have to purify the consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Viṣṇujana: So then a man who is not, does not have a purified consciousness has no way of knowing what is good or bad.



*Prabhupāda: No. He is illusioned. Māyā. That is called māyā. He is accepting something bad as good. Just like one is accepting this body as self. The whole world is moving, accepting this body as the self. Dehātma*-buddhi. But I am not this body. That's a fact. So it is illusion. Yes?



*Young man (1): You referred earlier to some proofs of after*-life. And I came in late. So I don't know if you've mentioned it earlier, but I wonder are these available in writing in English, and do people here know of them? That is, where would I look at such a thing?



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wishes to see proof of after*-life, either in writing or he wants to know if there is something...



*Prabhupāda: After*-life proof?



Young man (1): I'm interested in that idea. What proof is there, and is it available in English so that I could read it and study it and examine it carefully?



Viṣṇujana: Is it available in writing.



*Madhudviṣa: He wants to read it in a book, something that explains the validity of the statement that there's an after*-life.



*Prabhupāda: Read Bhagavad*-gītā. You study Bhagavad-gītā, you'll understand everything.



*Young man (1): That's sixty*-eight volumes?



Prabhupāda: No.



Young man (1): How many volumes?



*Prabhupāda: Bhagavad*-gītā is one volume only, eighteen chapters. So it is not very... Seven hundred verses. You can read it in three days. It is not very difficult. So we have published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and I think if you read, you'll get so many nice informations. And after reading Bhagavad-gītā, you read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then you get further enlightenment. Then you read Teachings of Lord Caitanya, you get further enlightenment. And for general information we have got this Back to Godhead. You can read. So we have got sufficient literatures. It is not that simply we are talking. We are backed by sufficient knowledge and literatures. Yes?



*Young man (6): It has been suggested that perhaps the battlefield in the Bhagavad*-gītā is the battlefield of Arjuna's mind, and Kṛṣṇa is trying to push him to go into battle against the forces of his senses, as characterized by Duryodhana. What do you think about that?



Prabhupāda: That means you think that battlefield is an imagination?



Young man (6): Well, that that, the battlefield is symbolic of Arjuna's mind, and that the forces that Kṛṣṇa is...



Prabhupāda: Who is Kṛṣṇa? Who is Kṛṣṇa? Suppose Arjuna is talking with Kṛṣṇa. Then who is... Mind is Kṛṣṇa, you mean to say?



Young man (6): No. I mean to say that if the battlefield is symbolic of...



Prabhupāda: What is... You give the example, "This is this symbol," "This is this symbol." What is the symbol of battlefield? That you do not know?



Young man (6): Are you saying that it should be taken literally?



Prabhupāda: No, no. What is your idea? You are putting question. Are you clear in your question? Or you are simply questioning without any clear idea? What is your position?



Young man (6): You mean what am I asking?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young man (6): I'm asking if the battlefield in...



Prabhupāda: Why you are asking that? Why that question is in your mind, the battlefield is imaginary?



Young man (6): Because that's what I read, and I wondered...



Prabhupāda: That means you are misled. You have no read very nicely.



Young man (6): Don't you think that perhaps it could be symbolic?



Prabhupāda: No.



Young man (6): Men have written...



*Prabhupāda: No. Not at all. (laughter) You have to... If you present symbolic, then you should give, "This is the symbol of this. This is the symbol of this." What is the symbol of battlefield? (pause) That means you are misled. Don't study all these nonsense. You'll be misled. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. The battlefield, Kurukṣetra-Kurukṣetra. It is dharmakṣetra-dharmakṣetra. Pāṇḍava-Pāṇḍava. We have explained in that way. Not that we have accepted battlefield is this or that. No.



Young man (6): But men have written with symbolism, pointed things out through symbolism all through the ages.



Prabhupāda: No. Why? Do you think any historical fact are symbolism?



Young man (6): Pardon me?



Prabhupāda: If there is historical facts, do you take it as symbolism? Suppose somebody is describing the World War number two. Is it symbolism?



Young man (6): (laughs) Well, I suppose not.



*Prabhupāda: Then? So similarly, this Bhagavad*-gītā is described in the history of India, Mahābhārata. So how you can take it symbolism? Mahābhārata is the history. Mahā means great; *great history of India, Mahābhārata. It is historical fact. How you can take a symbolism? Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā... [break] ...verse is dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1]. [break] ...in the battlefield. That Kurukṣetra is still lying in India from very old time. So how you call it symbolism? And it is dharma-kṣetra. In the Vedic literature the injunction is kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret. And still people go to Kurukṣetra for religious, performing religious rituals. Still they go. That Kurukṣetra battlefield is there. It is being treated as the place of pilgrimage. How you can say that it is symbolic? This is all nonsense. Historical facts is still being, I mean to say, followed. The Pāṇḍavas, that is historical. Still there is one old fort. People say this fort belonged to the Pāṇḍavas. The Indraprastha, New Delhi is called Indraprastha. Everything is historical. How you take symbolical?



Young man (5): Possibly every action is from a law of Kṛṣṇa, and law is that which pleases Kṛṣṇa. And from some act within His mind or within... I'm not sure what he was talking of there (?) because if it was in the mind, it was projected into history to please Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: What is his question?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says something about Kṛṣṇa has something in His mind; therefore it becomes factual. He projected it from His mind, and thus it became history.



Young man (5): No. No. Not that He projected it, but people trying to please Kṛṣṇa did it through misinterpretation.



Prabhupāda: You have to please Kṛṣṇa.



Young man (5): Yes.



Prabhupāda: Not trying, but if you don't please Kṛṣṇa, then you are in difficulty. That is your position. It is not Kṛṣṇa's interest. It is your interest. Just like if you want to live peacefully, you have to please the state. There is no question that by pleasing the state, by yourself, the state becomes very enriched. It is for your interest. If you please the state, then you can live very peacefully. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is full in Himself. He's great. He does not require your, some action so that He may be pleased. He's pleased already. But if you please Him, then you are happy. That is your interest. Yes?



*Young man (6): Don't you think that since there are people of different temperaments, different kinds of people, that... How should I say it? Don't you think that by denying rāja and jñāna and some of the other yogas that you're denying the infinite aspect of mankind? Don't you think that by asserting bhakti*-yoga as the only way that you're saying that...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Infinite aspect. We are publishing one article, "Dr. Frog." Dr. Frog means... Perhaps you know, everyone. The frog lives in a well. That is only a few feet. And one, another frog, he's giving information to his friend in the well, "My dear friend, I have seen a vast water, Atlantic Ocean." But this frog has never seen Atlantic Ocean. He's calculating, "It may be so much big. It may be so much big. It may be so much big." So how this infinity can be calculated by the frog? So those who are calculating infiniteness of this tiny soul, they're all Dr. Frogs. You are not infinite. You are finite. How you can be infinite? You can be infinite only when you dovetail yourself with the infinite. Individually you are finite. That is the position, real position. In the Bhagavad*-gītā in the Fifteenth Chapter... You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So did you not read this verse in the Fifteenth Chapter, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loka sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]? Have you read this? That "These living entities, they're My parts and parcels, fragmental parts." So you are... God is infinite. You are infinitesimal part and parcel. So how you can be infinite?



Young man (6): I mean that the aspects of... Well, you said yourself that there are people of many different temperaments, many different kinds of people.



Prabhupāda: But there must be one standard temperament. What is the standard temperament? You may have different views of something, but there must be some standard view. We are not concerned with the different views of different persons. We have to accept the standard view.



Young man (6): What's that?



Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa.



*Young man (6): Well, but don't you think that perhaps bhakti*-yoga isn't the way for everyone?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young man (6): That for some people other yogas would apply more to their...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the preliminary stage. Just like the same example, that you have to go... In New York that Empire State Building, 102 story. So everyone is going to the top, but somebody has passed ten steps, somebody has passed twelve steps, somebody has passed twenty. But there may be thousands of steps. So one who has gone to the top, he has passed all the steps. Similarly, there are different process of yogas*-karma-yoga or jñāna-yoga... They are divided into three. All these three yogas are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga. But you'll find the yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. When yoga is described in the Sixth Chapter, you'll find the Lord says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: "Of all the yogic process," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ madgatenāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47], "one who has taken Me within himself," śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām, "and with faith and love is engaged in My service, he is first-class yogi." So the first-class yogi are all these Kṛṣṇa conscious boys and girls. First-class yogi. Because they're always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within. And that is recommended by Kṛṣṇa, the author of all yogic principles. He's called Yogeśvara, the master of all yogic principles. So He said that "Here is a first-class yogi." Who? "Who is thinking always within himself Me, Kṛṣṇa." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā śraddhāvān: "With faith and love," bhajate, "he's engaged in My service." Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. "He is the first-class topmost yogi." So all yogic process must culminate in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So anyone who has accepted Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is supposed to be the first-class yogi. Actually, what is the ultimate end of yoga? The meaning of yoga is " 'contact." Contacting whom? The Supreme. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. So one who has contacted Kṛṣṇa, he is the highest yogi. [break] If somebody says that "I am incarnation of God," then why you cannot say that you are incarnation of God? What is the difference?



Young man (6): Well, I think the difference is that Ramakrishna was accepted in India as...



Prabhupāda: No, not in India. Don't say like that.



Young man (6): He wasn't?



Prabhupāda: No. Rāma was accepted as incarnation. Kṛṣṇa was accepted as incarnation. In every home, there is Rāma and Kṛṣṇa worship. Not this Ramakrishna. Neither any ācārya accepts him. If Ramakrishna... He said himself that "One who was Kṛṣṇa, one who was Rāma, I am the same." So his disciple accepted. Vivekananda accepted. But in that way, if somebody dies, he says, "One who was Kṛṣṇa, one was Rāma, I am," his sons accept. That is not the way of. There must be proof. Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Vyāsadeva, by Nārada, by Caitanya, by Rāmānuja, by so many great scholars, stalwarts. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all Indians as God. And He has proved Himself, His activities. There is Vedic proof, scholarly proof, authority proof. There are so many things. And people... There are thousands and millions of temple of Kṛṣṇa worship in India, and how many temples they have got Ramakrishna?



Young man (6): Well, Ramakrishna is pretty recent also.



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, because He's old, therefore people have taken? People forget old things. Why they are adhering to the old things? At Vṛndāvana only, one place, there are five thousand temples of Kṛṣṇa. Only in Vṛndāvana. So this is all propaganda. We have to test who is incarnation, who is not, by the authorities.



Young man (6): And who are the authorities?



Prabhupāda: Vedic literatures. Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation in the Vedic literatures.



Young man (6): What about people that have come since the Vedic literatures?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says what about people who have come since the Vedic literatures, since the time the Vedic literatures were written. What about them?



*Prabhupāda: Vedic literature is not written. It is before the creation. Vedic, Vedas, before the creation. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, there is statement, tene brahma hṛdā. Brahmā is considered to be the first created living entity, so he learned Vedas from within, from the Supersoul. Tene brahma hṛdā. So Vedic literature is not written at a certain time. It is coming. It is called apauruṣeya. It is not man-made. So you have to study very scrutinizingly, then you will understand. Thank you for your questions. Now chant. An incarnation has to be accepted by the evidence of Vedic literature, by his activities, by his features, and by authorities. There are so many things. Not that if somebody says, "I am incarnation," and therefore I become incarnation. No. Not in that way. If somebody comes here and says, "I am President Johnson," so any sane man will accept him simply because he says? And if somebody accepts him blindly, then he's a fool. Oh, he must... He says. Let us test whether he is bona fide, his credentials, how he is President Johnson. So we cannot accept even a man. How can we accept God without credentials? What is the credential of Ramakrishna that he is incarnation of God? These things are to be considered. Not that because Vivekananda accepted, therefore one has to accept. What is the credential? What is the proof? What is the extraordinary work? Lord Rāma is accepted God. There are so many extraordinary work. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as God. He has got so many extraordinary work.



Young man (6): Well, I don't know that much about Ramakrishna.



Prabhupāda: All right. Yes?



Young man (5): If we can believe the Beatles, you are not the only wise man to come out of the Indian hills to New York. What do you know of this Maharishi Yogi that has become so world famous, and what could you tell us of his teachings by way of comparison?



Prabhupāda: He's famous amongst the fools. He's not famous for me. (laughter)



Young man (5): Is he famous in India?



Prabhupāda: No. He cheated some fools because they wanted to be cheated. That's all. And he finished his business. After befooling, then he retired. That's all. Because you want to be cheated, some cheap method of become God immediately.



Young woman: Is it better to inquire directly a question to the spiritual master directly, or is it better... Is it better to wait for the answer to come in an indirect, or in a less direct way? Is it better to...



*Prabhupāda: No. You should find out a spiritual master. Everyone should find out. That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva... [MU 1.2.12]. [break] If you are interested to understand the spiritual science, then you must find out. That is your business. All right. It is past ten, uh, nine. No? Yes. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) Come here. I'm asking you, come here. Come here. (end)





681011LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, October 11, 1968



*Prabhupāda: (chants) Govindam ādi*-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond, repeats several times) Thank you very much. So all newcomer students, you are welcome. Thank you very much. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme leader. Human society cannot work without leader. Anywhere you go, any country, any nation, any society, any community, any family, there is a leader. So the Vedas instruct that there is a supreme leader. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This (is) very important mantra in Kaṭha Upaniṣad. You have heard the names of Upaniṣad. They are Vedic literatures. Originally, the Veda was one, Sāma Veda. Then it was divided into four, Sāma Veda, Atharva Veda, Ṛg Veda, Yajur Veda. Then the Vedas verses were explained in Upaniṣads. There are 108 Upaniṣads. Then the whole conclusion was made shortened, cream. That is called Vedānta-sūtra. And again, this Vedic knowledge was, I mean to say, compiled in simple way for understanding of less intelligent class of men. That is called Mahābhārata. And in the Mahābhārata there is one chapter which is called Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is only a chapter of the great history of India, Mahābhārata. And then Vedānta-sūtra is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Vedic literature is very old. Nobody can trace out the history. So far we understand, it is not man-made. It is coming out from transcendental world by disciplic succession.



*So in that Vedic literature this is, this verse is there, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). A leader, the supreme leader of all living entities*-God, or whatever you say, the Absolute Truth, the Absolute Person. Generally, we say God. God is also a person like you and me. Just like whenever you find out some leader, he must be a person. Impersonal cannot be leader. Is there any instance... In the modern history they have abolished monarchy, personal government. They have got democratic government or republican government. But still, they have to find out a president. Why? Why not without president? No. That cannot be done. There must be one leader. Any movement, any organization, there must be. And he must be a person. So you can judge from this how God can be imperson? He's person. And Vedic literature informs that He's a person like you and me. And your Bible also says that man is made after God. Not that God is made after man. Your feature, your two hands, two legs, one head, nice eyes, nice face, everything, this is imitation of God's feature. Therefore man is made after God. Not that because we have got two hands, two legs, or one head, therefore artists have imagined a God like us. No. Actually, this version of Bible is truth. Any scripture, there is truth. So the Vedic literatures also say that He is the supreme living entity above all other living entities, every individual living entity. The Bhagavad-gītā, most of you might have seen Bhagavad-gītā. It is clearly stated in the Second Chapter when Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, was explaining Arjuna, He said that "Yourself, Myself, and all these people, or the soldiers or the kings who have assembled here, they were individuals in the past, they are individuals at present, and they'll continue individuals in the future." So individuality cannot be cancelled. That is not possible. The only difference is, my individuality or Kṛṣṇa's individuality, is that my individuality is limited, but Kṛṣṇa's individuality is unlimited. That is the... Just like you select one person leader because his intelligence is greater than you, something greater than you. Therefore you select somebody as your leader. So in the Vedic literature the definition of God is also there, who is God. Now everyone is claiming, "I am God," but they do not know what is God. They are falsely claiming. But if you find out Parasara-sūtra, there is definition of God. What is that? Aiśvaryasya samagrasya. God is the owner of all wealth, vīryasya, all strength, yaśasaḥ, all fame, all intelligence, all beauty, and all renunciation. These six items in full strength, cent percent possession, that makes the God. So our position is always subordinate according to Vedic literature or any literature. If you reject God, then you will have to select somebody else you will have to worship as God. Take for example Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha's philosophy that there is no question of God, but we are suffering due to this material encagement and combination of matter, this body is combination of matter, and when the matter is dismantled, which is called nirvāṇa, then there is no question of feeling pains and pleasure. That is Buddha philosophy. But there is no question of God there. But fortunately or unfortunately, they are worshiping Lord Buddha. Try to understand that personality cannot be imagined at any circumstance. Somebody has to be found out. So the Vedas gives us the information that you accept the leadership of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then everything, all questions, all problems will be solved.

So here is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to dovetail your consciousness with the supreme leader, Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy (aside:) They are feeling inconvenience while sitting in this way. So we have no arrangement for chairs. You'll please excuse us. It is just developing. (people apparently getting up and leaving)

Govinda: Should we give them prasādam?



Prabhupāda: No. Now you read that article, "Superconsciousness," in the paper.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Superconsciousness."



Prabhupāda: You can sit down here face to face.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then I'll turn my back to you.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is from Back to Godhead, which is a monthly publication that we put out in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There's an article in it called "Superconsciousness," by our spiritual master. "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest yoga performance by trained devotional yogis. The yoga system, as it is stated in the standard yoga practice formula given by Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā and as recommended in the Patañjali yoga discipline, is different from nowadays-practiced haṭha-yoga as it is generally understood in the Western countries. Real yoga practice means to control the senses, and after such control is established, to concentrate the mind on the Nārāyaṇa form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the original absolute personality, the Godhead, and all the other Viṣṇu forms, with four hands, decorated with conch, lotus, club and wheel, are preliminary expansions of Kṛṣṇa." Should I wait a second? Wait for them to leave?



Prabhupāda: This will go on. They are not comfortably seated.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is recommended that we should meditate upon the form of the Lord. For practicing concentration of the mind one has to sit down in a secluded place, sanctified by a sacred atmosphere. And the yogi should observe the rules and regulations of brahmacarya, to live a life of strict self-restraint and celibacy. Nobody can practice yoga in a congested city, living a life of extravagance, including unrestricted sex indulgence and adultery of the tongue. We have already stated that yoga practice means controlling the senses. And the beginning of controlling the senses is to control the tongue. You cannot allow the tongue to take all kinds of forbidden food and drink and at the same time improve in the practice of yoga. It is a very regrettable fact that many unauthorized and stray so-called yogis now come to the West and exploit the learning of the people towards yoga. Such unauthorized yogis even dare to say publicly that one can indulge in drinking and at the same time practice meditation. Five thousand years ago in the Bhagavad-gītā dialogue Lord Kṛṣṇa recommended the yoga practice to his disciple Arjuna. But Arjuna flatly expressed his inability to follow the stringent rules and regulations of yoga. One should be practical in every field of activity. One should not waste his valuable time simply in practicing some gymnastic feats in the name of yoga. Real yoga is to search out the four-handed Supersoul within one's heart and to see Him perpetually in meditation. Such continued meditation is called samādhi. If however, one wants to meditate upon something void or impersonal it will require a very long time to achieve anything by yoga practice. We cannot concentrate our mind on something void or impersonal. Real yoga practice is to fix up the mind on the person of the four-handed Nārāyaṇa, who dwells in everyone's heart. Sometimes it is said that by meditation one will understand that God is seated within one's heart always, even when one does not know it. God is seated within the heart of everyone. He is not only seated within the heart of the human being but he is also there within the hearts of the cats and dogs. The Bhagavad-gītā certifies this with this declaration of the Lord. "Īśvara, the Supreme Controller of the world, is seated within the heart of everyone. He is not only in everyone's heart but He is also present within the atoms." No place is vacant. No place is without the presence of the Lord.



*"The feature of the Lord by which He is present everywhere is called the Paramātman. Ātman means the individual soul and Paramātman means the individual Supersoul. Both ātman and Paramātman are individual persons. The difference between them is that the ātman, or soul, is present only in one particular place, whereas the Paramātman is present everywhere. In this connection the example of the sun is very nice. An individual person may be situated in one place, but the sun, even though a specific individual entity, is present over the head of every individual person. In the Bhagavad*-gītā this is very nicely explained. Therefore even though the qualities of all entities, including the Lord, are equal, the Supersoul is different from the individual soul by quantity of expansion. The Lord or Supersoul can expand Himself into millions of different forms while the individual soul cannot do so. The Supersoul, being seated in everyone's heart, can witness everyone's activities-past, present and future. In the Upaniṣads the Supersoul is said to be sitting with the individual soul as a friend and witness. As a friend He is always anxious to get the individual soul back to home, back to Godhead. As a witness He is the endower of all benedictions that result from the individual's actions. The Supersoul gives all facility to the individual soul for achieving whatever he may desire, but He instructs his friend so that he may ultimately give up all other engagements and simply surrender unto God for perpetual bliss and eternal life full of knowledge. This is the last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā, the most authorized and widely read book on all forms of yoga. The last word of the Bhagavad-gītā, as stated above, is the last word in the matter of perfecting the yoga system. It is further stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that a person who is always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yogi. What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Just as the individual soul is present by his consciousness throughout the whole body, so the Supersoul or Paramātmā is present throughout the whole creation by His superconsciousness. This superconsciousness cannot be imitated by the individual soul."

*Prabhupāda: This consciousness formula is very simple to understand. Anyone can understand. Just like this body, so long the soul is there within this body, there is consciousness. Just like so long the sun is visible, there is heat and sunlight. Similarly, so long the soul is there within this body, we have got this consciousness. And as soon as the soul is gone from this body, there is no consciousness. So... But this consciousness, my consciousness, your consciousness is limited within this body. I cannot feel what pain and pleasure is within your body, neither you can feel. Therefore your consciousness is individual, my consciousness is individual. But there is another consciousness, which is all*-pervading. That consciousness is able to understand your feelings, my feelings, and everyone's feelings. The same example: The sun is located in one place, but five thousand miles away, you ask your friend where is sun, he will reply that "He is on my head." Similarly, you will say. Any direction. But the sun is one, but he is all-pervading. This is crude example. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means when you dovetail your consciousness with the supreme consciousness, then your life becomes perfect. Just like a motorcar is being driven at fifty miles speed, but a cyclist is going at ten miles speed. But if he catches the motorcar, he'll also have the fifty miles speed immediately. So the superconsciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is all-pervading. If you dovetail your consciousness, then you get universal feeling. Otherwise it is not possible. The same example. So that is being explained. Read it.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "This superconsciousness cannot be imitated by the individual soul who has limited awareness. I can understand what is going on within my limited body, but I cannot feel what is going on in another's body. I am present all over my body by my consciousness, but I am not present in any other's body by my consciousness. However, the Supersoul or Paramātmā, being present within everyone, situated everywhere, is conscious of every existence. The theory that the soul and the Supersoul are one is not acceptable because the individual soul's consciousness cannot act in superconsciousness. This superconsciousness can only be achieved by dovetailing individual consciousness with the superconsciousness. And this dovetailing process is called surrender, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. From the teachings of the Bhagavad*-gītā we learn very clearly that Arjuna in the beginning did not want to fight with his brothers and relatives. But after understanding the Bhagavad-gītā, when he dovetailed his consciousness with the superconsciousness of Kṛṣṇa, it was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A person in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness acts by the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, and so Arjuna agreed to fight the battle of Kurukṣetra. In the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness this dictation of the Lord is received through the transparent medium of the spiritual master. When one is sufficiently trained and acts with submissive faith and love for Kṛṣṇa under the direction of the bona fide spiritual master, the dovetailing process becomes more firm and accurate. At this stage (Kṛṣṇa) dictates from within. From without the devotee is helped by the spiritual master, the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, and from within the Lord helps the devotee as caitya-guru, being seated within the heart of everyone. To simply understand that God is seated in everyone's heart is not perfection. One has to be acquainted with God from within and without, and thus to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the highest perfectional stage for the human form of life, and the topmost stage in all yoga systems.



*"For a perfect yogi there are eight kinds of superachievements. One can become smaller than an atom, one can become bigger than a mountain, one can become lighter than air, one can become heavier than any metal, one can achieve any material effect he likes*-create a planet for example. One can control others like the Lord, one can travel anywhere within or without the universe freely, one can choose his own time and place of death and take rebirth wherever he may desire. But when one rises to the perfectional stage of receiving dictation from the Lord, that is more than the stage of the material achievements above mentioned. The breathing exercise of the yoga system which is generally practiced is just the beginning of the system. Meditation on the Supersoul is just a step forward. Achievement of wonderful material success is also only a step forward. But to attain direct contact with the Supersoul and to take dictation from Him is the highest perfectional stage.

*"The breathing exercise and meditation practices of yoga are very difficult in this age. It was difficult even five thousand years ago, or else Arjuna would not have rejected the proposal of Kṛṣṇa. This age of Kali is called the fallen age. At the present moment people in general are short*-living, are very slow in understanding self-realization or spiritual life. They are most unfortunate, and as such, if somebody is a little bit interested in self-realization, he is misguided by so many frauds. The only actual way to realization of the perfect stage of yoga is to follow the principles of the Bhagavad-gītā as they were practiced by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is the simplest and highest perfection of yoga practice. Lord Caitanya practically demonstrated Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga simply by chanting the holy names of Kṛṣṇa as they were mentioned in the Vedānta, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and many important Purāṇas. The largest number of Indians follow this yoga practice, and in the USA also it is gradually growing in many cities. It is very easy and practical for this age, especially for those who are serious about success in yoga. No other process can be successful in this age. The meditation process in right earnest was possible in the golden age of Satya-yuga, because the people at that time lived for a hundred thousand years on the average. If you want success in practical yoga, take to the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and feel for yourself how you are making progress. One should know for himself how much he is progressing in yoga practice. In the Bhagavad-gītā this practice of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is described as rāja-vidyā, the king of all erudition; *rāja*-guhyam, the most confidential system of spiritual realization; pavitra, the purest of all that is pure; *su*-sukham, very happily performed; *and avyayam, inexhaustible. Those who have taken to the most sublime bhakti*-yoga system, this practice of devotional service in transcendental love of Kṛṣṇa can testify to how they are nicely enjoying its happy and easy execution. Yoga means controlling the senses, and bhakti-yoga means purifying the senses. When the senses are purified they are also automatically controlled. You cannot stop the activities of the senses by artificial means, but if you purify the senses, they are not only kept back from rubbish engagement but also they become positively engaged in transcendental service to the Lord. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not manufactured by us through mental speculation. It is the injunction of the Bhagavad-gītā which says that when we think in Kṛṣṇa, chant in Kṛṣṇa, live in Kṛṣṇa, eat in Kṛṣṇa, talk in Kṛṣṇa, hope in Kṛṣṇa, and sustain in Kṛṣṇa, we return to Kṛṣṇa without any doubt. And this is the substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Any question?



Young woman (1): I have a question. I would like to know your beliefs concerning who Jesus Christ was.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She wishes to know what your beliefs are concerning Lord Jesus Christ.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He is representative of God, son of God. That's all.



Young woman (1): Do you believe in the blessed trinity?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you believe in the blessed trinity?



Prabhupāda: I do not know what is that.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Father, son, and holy ghost.



Madhudviṣa: Holy spirit.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Holy spirit.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? (laughter)



Young woman (1): Thank you.



Prabhupāda: Yes?



Young man (2): What is the outcome of continuous practice of the chant "Oṁ?"



*Prabhupāda: Oṁ is also another form vibration of Lord. Oṁ. That is also accepted in Bhagavad*-gītā. So Hare Kṛṣṇa or oṁ, practically the same value, but this is easier. Yes. And because Hare Kṛṣṇa was chanted by Lord Caitanya specifically. Oṁ is generally added (when) just beginning one mantra. That is the Vedic way. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paś... Oṁ is also addressing the Lord. Oṁ. And Hare Kṛṣṇa is also addressing. But this is easier and recommended for this age. Otherwise, transcendentally or spiritually, there is no difference.



Young woman (3): What do you believe in reference to Ramakrishna? He was in the Hindu faith.



Prabhupāda: Not Hindu faith. What is your belief of Ramakrishna?



Young man (2): Well, I've read a little about him, and he supposedly...



Prabhupāda: What he is? What you have studied about him?



Young man (2): He was an incarnate of God. He believed in Jesus Christ, he believed in Buddha, he believed in yoga. I just wondered if you had anything to do with him.



*Prabhupāda: We have got original Kṛṣṇa. So original Kṛṣṇa includes everyone. Kṛṣṇa, govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So if you believe in the original, the categories automatically come. But the categories, under the influence of māyā, becomes different. So if you want to study any person, you have, you must have some standard way of studying. How you have accepted this Ramakrishna as incarnation? What is the authority? Simply suppose if somebody says, "I am incarnation." Will he be accepted? If somebody comes here and says that "I am President Johnson," will it be accepted like that? And if somebody believes in that way, is he very intelligent man? So what is your basis of taking Ramakrishna as incarnation? So far Vedic literature is concerned, we cannot accept. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kāmais tais tair hṛta jñānāḥ yajante 'nya devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. If somebody is lost of his intelligence, then he worships demigods. What is that?



*Young man (2): What do you think of kuṇḍalinī or rāja*-yoga?



*Prabhupāda: We are practicing the emperor yoga. Therefore rāja*-yoga is included there. The Bhagavad-gītā says that,



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate māṁ yo

sa yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



Anyone who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within himself, he is the topmost yogi. Therefore a person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the authority of Vedic literature, he is supposed to passed all kinds of yogic principles. What is your understanding of kuṇḍalinī yoga? Do you know?



Young man (2): It's very dangerous.



Prabhupāda: So why do you accept such dangerous thing?



Young man (2): No, I just wanted to know what you thought of it.



*Prabhupāda: There is no need of... It is not possible to practice that yoga. Yoga practice... That kuṇḍalinī process of yoga is not possible in this age. It is a very difficult process. So we should recommend not to waste your valuable time following something which is not possible to be done by you. That is our recommendation. But if you have got some hobby, that is a different thing. But it will never be successful. It is very difficult to perform. At the present age, as it is recommended and it is followed, practiced, and experienced, this bhakti*-yoga is the only possible way for self-realization. It is made very simple: simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma... Anyone can do it. Any part of the world can people practice it, of any age, it doesn't matter, either old, young, or child. We have got many children of our devotees, they are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And many old men like me, they are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And these young boys and girls, they are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is universal. And all these boys and girls, they are neither Hindus nor Indians, nor they have any knowledge of Sanskrit. But they easily pick up this Hare Kṛṣṇa and chant and getting the result. So this is the easiest, universal method of self-realization in the present age. Any other practice of yoga system will never be successful. It will be simply waste of time.



Young man (3): May I ask this, Swami, as you said after. Have you yourself reached the superconscious state, or the Christ consciousness state?



Prabhupāda: Why don't you come and sit down here. Yes. What is your question?



Young man (3): I asked, Swami, that you have yourself reached this Christ consciousness or superconscious state and then talked with the Divine.



Prabhupāda: It is not very difficult. You can also do that. It is the easiest process. What Christ consciousness? What did Christ say? That you surrender unto God. Did he say anything more than this?



Young man (3): No, the understanding I had of Christ consciousness was when one's mind reaches the state where he is within all atoms and all the flowers...



*Prabhupāda: That we have already explained, that Kṛṣṇa is within yourself, within your heart, within my heart, within the atoms, everywhere. So if Christ thinks also like that, then there is no difference between Christ consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is also, aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Nothing can move, nothing can act without spiritual touch. That is a fact. So this world, or anything, that is moving, jagat... The Sanskrit name of the world is jagat, "which is moving, making progress." That movement is not possible without the spiritual touch. Just like my body, your body is moving because there is spiritual spark within you, within me. So if you can understand this simple fact, that nothing can move without spiritual power, touch... Just like this watch. This watch is moving. You can say it is machine, but not machine. If I wind, then it will move. Therefore there is spiritual touch. If I don't wind, if I keep it in my box, it will not move. So this simple truth, that without spiritual touch nothing can move, and spirit is God. Therefore you can have immediately God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Young man (3): Isn't there a difference between... When I say Christ consciousness, to get your mind on the same level as the atoms, and on a higher level, beyond the atoms as pure spirit*-are these two levels of consciousness in the atoms and...



Prabhupāda: Actually, there is no two levels. There is only one level. Just like there is one sky, but when the sky is overcast with cloud, you divide the sky: "This is friendly sky, and this is nonfriendly sky." Just like the airlines, they advertise, "Fly in friendly sky." Wherefrom this "friendly sky" comes? The sky is one. But the part of the sky which is covered with cloud, that is unfriendly sky. Similarly, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. There is... Without exception, everything is spirit. But the portion of spirit which is covered by ignorance, the cloud of ignorance, that is matter. Just like what is material civilization? All activities minus God. This is material. And as soon as all activities plus God, it is spiritual. So all activities minus God means trouble, and all activities plus God is wholesome, is pleasing. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all activities plus God. That's all. We are also doing the same thing. The candle is burned here, you also have candles at your home. You have got your apartment; this is also apartment. What is the difference between this apartment, your apartment? Because here is relationship of Kṛṣṇa. So you make everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. That is the technique you have to learn in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Actually, there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but artificially we have covered Kṛṣṇa consciousness with something else, which is called māyā. So you have to get out of this māyā consciousness and stand in your original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your life is perfect. That is being taught. There is nothing artificial, neither extraordinary, neither a very difficult thing. It is very plain and simple.



Young man (4): Is there a regression at all in your system of reincarnation? Can we... What I mean to say is, can a man regress to, if you call it a regression, I don't know... Can a man become, after his body dies, I mean, say, an animal or an insect of some sort?



Prabhupāda: Yes. There are 8,400,000 species of different kinds of life. So, so far my condition is concerned, I am not this body; I am spirit soul. Just I am changing my body even at the present moment. Just like when you were born from your mother's womb, your body was very small. Now it has grown. You were a boy; now you are young. Now you will become old man like me also. That means the changing body. It is simple fact. You are changing. From your childhood body, this body is different. Either you take it that it has grown or either you take it that the body has changed, the same thing. But actually it has changed. So the changing of body is accepted. Therefore it is concluded that when you change this body, you may get another body.



Young man (4): What is it that you take with you? What is the...



*Prabhupāda: Just like... I will explain. Now, how this change of body is being done? That change of body is being done according to your mentality. Just like here you have got different dresses, different features, different modes of life, all these boys and girls and ladies and gentlemen who are sitting. Why? Due to different modes of mind. Somebody likes to keep hair, somebody like to cleanse hair. Why? This difference. Difference due to mind. So according to your mind at the time of your death, the position, the status of your mind will give you a next body. So if your mind is God conscious, then you get your body next like God. And if your mind is dog conscious, then you get your body, next body, a dog. So it is a question of training your mind so that at the point of death if you keep yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious mind, then you get as good a body like Kṛṣṇa. This is the whole philosophy. And Kṛṣṇa's body is sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], full of bliss, full of knowledge, eternal. So we are hankering after eternal body, blissful body, and full of knowledge. That should be the destination. That is our aim. So to fulfill that aim, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice thing.



Young man (5): When we get the next body does our mind retain much of what is learned in the life before? At least the general principles? Or does it start all over again and live within that body and gain its knowledge through that body?



Prabhupāda: No. Death means forgetfulness. Death... Just like when you sleep you forget your day's activities. So sleep is partial death. In sleep also, you sometimes think that you have got a different body, you are floating on the air, or you have gone somewhere which you never seen. So that means the mind is forgetful of the day's activities. It has taken a different activity. Similarly, as soon as the body's changed, the mind is also changed. Mind function is thinking, feeling, and willing. So we feel, think, and will according to circumstances. Just like now you have got an American body, you are thinking like American. I have got an Indian body, I am thinking like Indian. Similarly, a dog has got a dog body, he's thinking like a dog. So mind changes also according to the position of the body.



Young man (6): Is it possible through Kṛṣṇa consciousness to, in the supreme state, to be able to remember all that you were?



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is possible. If you come to the supreme state, you can remember. That is also possible. Because there are instances... One King Bhārata, he died thinking of a deer, so he got his next body as a deer. But he remembered that "I was such and such person." There are sometimes report in the newspaper that a child is dictating that "I have got my home there," and when he goes there he says, "He is my son. Here I kept in this box this thing." Perhaps... There are many instances like that. So that is, exceptional cases it is possible.



Young man (5): One more question. Could you tell me why at times it is dangerous to meditate on concentration on the astral world?



*Prabhupāda: Because at the present moment mind is always disturbed, full of anxieties. You cannot concentrate. Therefore this process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is forcibly. When you chant, I chant, loudly, at least you hear "Kṛṣṇa," your mind is immediately turned to Kṛṣṇa. So that is meditation. Because after all, meditation means you have to concentrate on the Supreme. The Supreme is nondifferent. Supreme name*-Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name, nondifferent. So when you hear Kṛṣṇa, the name, you immediately remember the Kṛṣṇa person, and there is no difference between His name and the person. So immediately you associate with Kṛṣṇa. Forcibly. Even you don't like, I'll chant "Kṛṣṇa," you'll be forced to associate. You will chant "Kṛṣṇa," I'll be forced to associate. This is going on. One devotee is forcing another devotee to remember Kṛṣṇa. And what he'll do by meditation? He'll think of his office or his home or his dog or his cat. That's all. So therefore meditation... Not only at the present moment, even five thousand years ago when Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna that "You take to this practice," he said, "Oh, it is not possible for me. I am a warrior. I am a politician. I have got to do so many things. How can I concentrate my mind? Kṛṣṇa, excuse me." You'll see in Bhagavad-gītā. But we are trying to be more than Arjuna at the present moment. It is simply waste of time. It is not possible. This is the only process of meditation.



Young man (5): I have known some people who have meditated, and they don't know how to meditate, and they try to meditate, as I say, on the astral, and they contact the incarnate souls in the astral world. And sometimes they get ahold of the wrong one. And when their mind is left open, these spirits or incarnate souls that are not good will take over the mind of a person. Now, how can one avoid this?



*Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can avoid all rubbish things by simply keeping your consciousness in Kṛṣṇa. That's all. It is a very simple thing. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are great souls, they're always chanting, glorifying the Lord. So there is no opportunity of engaging the mind in something else which is nonsense. We are teaching our student, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma..." He is being practiced to this. He cannot avoid it. Even if he goes on the street he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. His samādhi... He hasn't got to attain samādhi; *the samādhi is going with him, samādhi. It is so nice thing, and easy. They are not practicing breathing exercise or sitting exercise. No. They are ordinary boys and girls. But simply by chanting they are making practical progress. Their health, their character, their mode of living*-everything is increasing, developing. And spiritual advancement means all goodness. It does not mean that a man is spiritually advanced and doing all nonsense. That is contradictory. How pure thing can be impure? Pure is pure; *impure is impure. If you say it is impure pure, how it is possible? One is addicted to all nonsense habit and he's practicing meditation and elevating himself. Is it possible? That is all bogus. As soon as one becomes purified, the manifestation of his character, of his mode of life, living, everything will be purified. That is the test. Pareśānubhava. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava. Just like if you're cured, then there is no fever. The temperature is at the normal point. And if you say, "I am cured. I am taking medicine, and still, my temperature is 105," that is not possible. So advancement in self*-realization means purification from material contamination. That is real advancement. This is practical. Now, how practical it is? In your country, smoking, drinking, taking tea, and keeping boyfriend, girlfriend, liquor, meat-eating, they are common affairs. How they have avoided all these things, within very short time? None of them are associating with me more than one year, and just see their character. It is so practical. You cannot induce them even to smoke. We don't say that you go on with all nonsense, at the same time you become spiritually advanced. We don't talk all this nonsense. There must be practical exhibition that one is advanced in spiritual consciousness. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. All good qualities will develop. That is spiritual advancement. That is the test. But it may be due to my past habit I may sometimes commit mistake, I may fall down. But Kṛṣṇa says, śaśvad bhavati dharmātmā. Even if he falls down sometimes out of ignorance, still, he'll very soon become purified. The process is so nice. Just like a fan is moving and make the switch off. Still you will see the fan is moving, but rest assured it will stop because the switch is off. Similarly, a person taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his material life's switch is off immediately. And even though it is seen it is moving, it will stop very soon. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to put off the switch of material existence immediately. It is so nice. Yes.



Young man (5): Do you think that drugs would help attain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: It is nonsense. It will not help, but it is nonsense. We don't allow any kind of intoxication.



Young man (5): Does it interfere with the, the soul?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is artificial. You are already artificially complicated by your, this body, because you have got this body. And you want to make yourself more complicated? And do you mean to say that is advancement? You have to get free. So just like in order to get free from a type of disease one has to take proper medicine and proper diet, similarly, in order to get out of this material contamination, you have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the medicine. And you have to take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, the diet. The disease will be cured. Simple method. And it is practically seen. When these boys came to me first, from that time and this time, their face has changed so much. And what I am giving them? These fruits, Kṛṣṇa prasāda, that's all, and chanting. Their mind, their face, their activity, their habit, their character*-everything has changed. But what is the process? This medicine and this diet. That's all. There is no surgical operation. It is very simple. You take to it and you see the result. Yes?



Young man (5): What are the good qualities you referred to not too long ago?



Prabhupāda: To become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the greatest quality. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We have forgotten it. And when we come to understanding that "I am part and parcel of God," that is your greatest qualification. Simple thing. What is the greatest qualification of good citizen? American, when he thinks that "I am American citizen. I have to look after the interest of American state," that is his good qualification, or good citizenship. Similarly, when you transcend all these artificial designations, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this or that..." "I am part and parcel of the Supreme," that is the greatest qualification.



Young man (5): When you succumb to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or to Kṛṣṇa, do you still have any obligation to, say, the worldly affairs, in making, say, the world a better place?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is my obligation, to give them education in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the best service I am giving to the humanity. Why I have come to your country? I am old man. Just to fulfill this obligation. So when one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious he feels obligation very extensive, not limited. He is called mahātmā, very broad-minded. Not cripple-minded. So "I am good, my father is good"*-not like that. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that it makes your mind broader. Mahātmā. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. This exact word is there in the Bhagavad-gītā:



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



After many lives' cultivation of knowledge, when one comes to the point that Vāsudeva or the Supreme Personality of Godhead is everything, He is the cause of all causes, then he surrenders unto Him. But such kind of surrendering soul is very rare. So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we do not expect that everyone can join, but anyone who joins, it is to be understood that in his previous life he has passed all cultivation of knowledge. Otherwise it is not possible. But if one is... Just like this verse says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. If one is intelligent to understand this verse, that only a wise man, only one who has become very wise after many, many births; cultivation of spiritual knowledge, he surrenders to Vāsudeva or Kṛṣṇa... So I do not know whether I cultivated knowledge in my past life, but if it is a fact that this is the result of many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, why not surrender immediately and become the most learned wise man? Take the opportunity. One has to become very intelligent. Just like if one man is earning, say, ten hundred millions of dollars by depositing little, little, in the bank, so if somebody offers, "All right, you take immediately ten hundred thousands of dollars immediately," so who will refuse it? So if it is a fact that one comes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness after many, many births... So, little intelligence required, that "Why not take it immediately? Even I did not cultivate knowledge in my past life, let me take immediately." So this opportunity is offered. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no tax. There is no loss. But everything is gained. Try it. At least, make an experiment for week or for fortnight and see. It is not difficult. Simply we must be willing. That's all. Because every one of us are independent. Not fully, little. So we can use our independence, we can misuse our independence. So here is the offering. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now it is your choice. If you can take, it is good. If you don't take, that is your good will.(?) Is there any difficulty to accept our formula? I ask all of you, is there any difficulty? I am asking this. You have asked so many questions of me. Is there any difficulty to accept this formula?



Young man: No.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Young man: No.



Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it?



Young man: I have.



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. (laughter) It is so simple, nice. Try to understand by your knowledge, question. We are not pushing forcibly. You have got your intelligence, argument, logic, everything. But you'll find it. Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. The author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta says that we are placing it for your judgment. Not that we are pushing it by force, that you have to accept it. Just like sometimes it is said that the Muhammadans, they propagated one hand sword and one hand Koran: "Either you accept Koran or there is sword for you." It is not that. It is placed for your judgment. And if you like, you can accept it. Otherwise, I came here empty-handed, I shall go back empty-handed. There is no loss, no gain. (laughter) So any other question? All right. Then join with Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. Upendra will chant. (end)





681018LE.SEA

Lecture

-

Seattle, October 18, 1968



*Prabhupāda: (sings "Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.'') So we are worshiping Govindam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the original person. So this sound, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi, is reaching Him. He is hearing. You cannot say that He is not hearing. Can you say? No. Especially in this scientific age, when television, radio messages are broadcast thousands and thousands of miles away, and you can hear, now why can you...? Why Kṛṣṇa cannot hear your prayer, sincere prayer? How can you say it? Nobody can deny it. So, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Just like thousands and thousands of miles away you can transfer the television picture or your radio sound, similarly, if you can prepare yourself, then you can see always Govinda. It is not difficult. This is stated in Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Simply you have to prepare your eyes, your mind in that way. Here is a television box within your heart. This is the perfection of yoga. It is not you have to purchase one machine, or television set. It is there, and God is also there. You can see, you can hear, you can talk, provided you have got the machine. You repair it, that's all. The repairing process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, everything is supplied, complete, complete set of machine you have got within you. And just like for repairing, an expert mechanic required, similarly, you require the help of someone expert. Then you'll see that your machine is working. It is not difficult to understand. Nobody can say that it is not possible. In the śāstra we hear also. Sādhu śāstra, guru vākya, tinete kariya aikya. Spiritual realization can be perfected by three parallel process. Sādhu. Sādhu means saintly persons, who are realized souls, sādhu. And śāstra. Śāstra means scriptures, authoritative scriptures, Vedic scriptures, śāstra. Sādhu, śāstra, and guru, a spiritual master. Three parallel line. And if you place your car or vehicle on these three parallel line, your car will go direct to Kṛṣṇa. Tinete kariyā aikya. Just like in the railway line you see two parallel lines. If they are in order, the railway carriages are carried very smoothly to the destination. Here also, there are three parallel lines-sādhu, śāstra, guru: saintly person, association of saintly person, acceptance of bona fide spiritual master, and faith in the scriptures. That's all. Then your carriage will be going nicely, without any disturbance. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete kariya aikya.



*So here in the Bhagavad*-gītā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead explaining Himself, Kṛṣṇa. So if you say, "How can I believe that Kṛṣṇa said? Somebody has written in the name of Kṛṣṇa that 'Kṛṣṇa said,' 'God said.' " No. This is called disciplic succession. You will see in this book, Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa said, and how Arjuna understood. These things are described there. And the sādhu, saintly person, beginning from Vyāsadeva, Nārada, down to many ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and latest, Lord Caitanya, in this way, they have accepted: "Yes. It is spoken by Kṛṣṇa." So this is the proof. If saintly persons have accepted... They have not denied. Authorities, they have accepted, "Yes." This is called sādhu. And because sādhu, saintly persons have accepted, therefore it is scripture. That is the test. Just like... It is common sense affair. If the lawyers accept some book, then it is to be understood that this is lawbook. You cannot say that "How can I accept this is law?" The evidence is the lawyers are accepting. Medical... If the medical practitioners accept, then that is authoritative medical. Similarly, if saintly persons are accepting Bhagavad-gītā as scripture, you cannot deny it. Sādhu śāstra: saintly persons and scriptures, two things, and with spiritual master, three, three parallel lines, who accept the sādhu and the scripture. Sādhu confirms the scriptures and spiritual master accept the scripture. Simple process. So they are not in disagreement. What is spoken in the scripture is accepted by saintly person, and what is spoken in the scripture, the spiritual master explains only that thing. That's all. So via media is the scripture. Just like lawyer and the litigants-via media is the lawbook. Similarly, the spiritual master, the scripture... Saintly person means who confirms the Vedic injunction, who accepts. And scripture means what is accepted by the saintly person. And spiritual master means who follows the scriptures. So things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. This is axiomatic truth. If you have got one hundred dollars, and another man has got hundred dollar, and if I have got hundred dollar, then we are all equal. Similarly, sādhu śāstra guru vākya, when these three parallel lines in agreement, then life is success.

*So here Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad*-gītā, mayy āsakta-manāḥ, about the yoga system. He has already concluded in the Sixth Chapter the yoga system. In the first six chapters it is explained what is the constitutional position of the living entity. There are eighteen chapters in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first six chapters explains only the constitutional position of the living entities. And when it is understood... Just like when you understand your actual position, then your activities actually begin. If you do not know what is your actual position... Suppose in the office, if your post is not settled up what duty you have to execute, then you cannot do anything very nicely. Here is a typist, here is clerk, here is a peon, here is a this and that. So they are executing their work very nicely. So one has to understand what is the constitutional position of the living entity. So that is explained in the first six chapters. Adyena śastena upāsakasya jīvasya svarūpa-prāpti-sādhanaṁ ca pradhānaṁ niṁ proktam (?). Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana, a very nice authorized commentator on the Bhagavad-gītā, he says that in the first six chapters the constitutional position of the living entity has been very nicely explained. And how one can understand his constitutional position, that is also explained. So the yoga system means to understand his constitutional position. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. We are busy with sense activities. The material life means business of sense activities. The whole world activity, when you go stand on the street, you will see everybody's very busy. The storekeeper is busy, the motor-driver is busy. Everyone is very busy-so busy that so many accidents in business. Now, why they are busy? If you minutely study what is their business, the business is sense gratification. That's all. Everyone is busy how to gratify senses. This is material. And yoga means to control the senses, to understand my spiritual position, my constitutional position. Just like a boy who is accustomed to playing only, he cannot concentrate in his study, in understanding his future life, or in elevating himself, a higher position. Similarly, if we are engaged like child without knowing the future of life, simply playing with the senses, that is called material life. The difference between material life and spiritual life is that if somebody is simply engaged in sense gratification business, that is called material life. And out of many thousands of such materialistic persons, if somebody is trying to understand, "What I am? Why I have come here? Why I am put into so many miserable condition of life? Is there any remedy...?" these questions, when arises, then, practically, his spiritual life begins. And the human form of life is meant for that. In animal life they do not know anything except sense gratification. They have no power. Their consciousness is not developed. Just like in the Green Lake park, there are so many ducks. As soon as somebody goes there with some little food, oh, they go gather: "quack! quack! quack! quack!" (laughter) That's all. And after eating, they are enjoying sex life. That's all. So, similarly, like cats and dogs and these animals, the human life is also like that if there is no question "What I am?" If they are simply directed by the sense urges, they are no better than these ducks and dogs.

*So therefore, in the first six chapters it has been decided that a living entity is a spiritual spark. It is very difficult to find out where the spark is, because it is so small, minute. There is no material microscope or machine to find out. But it is there. It is there. The symptom is, because it is there in my body, because it is there in your body, therefore you are moving, you are talking, you are planning, so many things you are doing-simply for that spiritual spark. So we are very minute spark of the supreme spirit. Just like there are in the sunshine minute particles, shining particles. With shining, these shining particles, when they are mixed together, that is sunshine. But they are molecules. They are separate, atomic molecules. Similarly, in relationship with God and ourselves, we are also minute particles of God, shining. Shining means we have got the same propensities, thinking, feeling, willing, creating, everything. Whatever you see in yourself, that is there in God. So God cannot be impersonal, because we are all persons. I have got so many propensities*-that is very minute quantity. The same propensities are there in Kṛṣṇa, or God, but that is very great, unlimited. This is the study of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply greatness, my position is very small. And we are so small, infinitesimal; still, we have got so many propensities, so many desires, so many activities, so many brain work. Just imagine how much greater brain work and desire and propensities are there in God, because He's great. His greatness means all these things, what you have got, that is existing in Him in greatness. That's all. Qualitatively, we are one, but quantitatively, we are different. He's great; we are small. He is infinite; we are infinitesimal. Therefore the conclusion is, just like infinite particles of fire, sparks, when they are with the fire, they look very nice with fire and sparks. But when the sparks are out of the fire, main fire, they extinguish. No more fire. Similarly, we are sparks of Kṛṣṇa or God. When we associate with God, then our, that illuminating power, fire, is renovated. Otherwise, we are extinguished. Although you are sparks, our present life, this material life, is covered. The spark is covered, or extinguished almost. This is only example. It cannot be extinguished. If it is extinguished, how we are manifesting our living condition? It is not extinguished, but it is covered. Just like when fire is covered, you'll feel heat on the covering, but you cannot see the fire directly. Similarly, this spiritual spark is covered by his material dress; therefore we cannot see. The doctor says, "Oh, the bodily function has failed; therefore heart has failed. He is dead." But why heart fails he does not know. There is no medical science, calculated. They will say so many reasons, that "Because the blood corpuscles, red corpuscles has ceased to function, it has become white; therefore it is..." No. This is not right answer. The blood can be made red... Or redness is not life. There are many natural product which is red by nature. That does not mean there is life. So this argument, that red corpuscles have ceased; *therefore life has ceased*-no. There are so many arguments and counterarguments.

*Actually, this is the fact, because we are speaking on the strength of scripture, saintly persons and spiritual master. That is the way of understanding. You cannot manufacture with your teeny brain, imperfect senses. Human being, they're imperfect, always. Just for example, that a child is seeing the sun, and a scientist is seeing the sun. By nature, the child, their knowledge of the sun is imperfect. The same child, when he takes instruction from a scientist, he can understand the sun is so great. Therefore direct perception of knowledge by our the senses is always imperfect. You have to approach authority*-in every sphere of life. Similarly, if you want to understand what is God, then you have to take shelter of this Bhagavad-gītā. There is no alternative. You cannot speculate that "God may be like this, God may be like that," "There is no God," "God is dead," "God is not dead." This is simply speculation. Here Kṛṣṇa says,

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



If you believe that *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*, is speaking personally, as Arjuna believed, then you can understand what is God. Otherwise it is not possible. Asaṁśayam.



*So the process is, the first process is, mayy āsakta*-manāḥ. You have to constantly engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa. That is the yoga process, which is, which we are presenting as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like if you constantly join yourself with the electric powerhouse, there is incessant supply of electric energy. Similarly, if you constantly engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa, that is also not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa is beautiful. Kṛṣṇa has so many activities. The whole Vedic literature is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. This Bhagavad-gītā is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. Simply by understanding that God is great, that is neutral state of understanding. But you have to elevate more and more, how great He is. How great He is, it is not possible to understand, because our senses are always imperfect. But as far as possible you can hear about the activities of God, about the position of God, and you can think over it, and you can make your judgment, you can put your argument. Then you will understand without any doubt what is God. The first beginning is, mayy āsakta-manāḥ. In the last chapter Kṛṣṇa has explained that one who is constantly absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa, he is first-class yogi, first-class yogi. In your country the yoga system is very popular, but you do not know who is a first-class yogi. The first-class yogi (is) explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47], that out of many, many thousands of yogis, the yogi or bhakta-yogi who is always seeing within himself, within his heart, the form of Kṛṣṇa, he's first-class yogi, he's first class.

*So you have to continue that first*-class yoga system, and that is explained here, mayy āsakta-manāḥ: being attached. Mind is the vehicle for being attached. If you are attached to somebody, some boy, some girl, some person... Generally, we become attached to a person. Impersonal attachment is bogus thing. If you want to be attached, that attachment must be personal. Is it not a fact? Impersonal attachment... You cannot love the sky, but you can love the sun, you can love the moon, you can love the stars, because they are localized person. And if you want to love the sky, it is very difficult for you. You have to come again to this sun. So yoga system, culminating in perfection, in love... So you have to love somebody, person. That is Kṛṣṇa. Just like here is a picture. Rādhārāṇī is loving Kṛṣṇa and offering His (Her) flowers to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is playing with His flute. So you can think of this picture nicely, always. Then you (will) become constantly in yoga, samādhi. Why impersonal? Why you something, something void? Void cannot be. If you think something void, there will be something light, something color, colorful, so many things we will find. But that is also form. How you can avoid form? That is not possible. Therefore why don't you concentrate your mind to the real form, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the controller, the supreme controller, who has got a body? How? Vigrahaḥ, vigrahaḥ means body. And what sort of body? Sac-cid-ānanda, eternal body, full of bliss, full of knowledge. That body. Not like body like this. This body is full of ignorance, full of miseries, and not eternal. Just opposite. His body is eternal; my body is not eternal. His body is full of bliss; *my body is full of miseries, always something troubling me*-headache, toothache, this ache, that ache. Somebody is, has given me personal trouble. So many... Adhyātmic, adhibhautic, severe heat, severe cold, so many things. This body is always under threefold miseries, this material body.

*So if you think of Kṛṣṇa, that is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, if you practice this yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how? Mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means "taking shelter of somebody who is in touch with Me." Mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means directly in touch with Him. Directly you are in touch with Him as soon as you think of Him, His form. But unless you take shelter of a spiritual master who knows about Him, you cannot concentrate for a long time. It may be temporary. Therefore you have to hear from a person who knows about Kṛṣṇa. Then your concentration of mind on Kṛṣṇa will continue. You have to act according to his direction everything. Your life should be molded in such a way under the direction of the spiritual master. Then you can continue this yoga system perfectly. What is that yoga system? That yoga system explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Sixth Chapter, last verse. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā: [Bg. 6.47] "One who is always thinking of Me," mad-gata, "He is first-class yogi." In many places it is stated. Premāñjana-cchurita. How you can think of Kṛṣṇa unless you develop love for Kṛṣṇa? Just like Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī, She has come. She was married, and household life, but She has come to Kṛṣṇa to worship Him. Similarly, we have to place Kṛṣṇa always in our mind, think of Him. Then this very process, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, "Under the protection of Myself, of My representative, when you understand samagram, perfectly well, then your life is successful." Asaṁśayam: "without any doubt." Not that because your spiritual master says that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." No. If you have got any doubt, just question, just try to understand. It is a fact that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead, undoubtedly. But if you have got some doubt, you can clear it. Asaṁśayam. In this way, if you practice this yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the topmost of all the yoga systems, asaṁśayam samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi [Bg. 7.1], then you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, perfectly well, without any doubt, and your life will be successful.

Thank you. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question?



*Jaya*-gopāla: What is the difference between bhava and prema?



Prabhupāda: Prema is mature condition of bhava. Just like a ripe mango and green mango. Green mango is the cause of ripe mango. But to taste ripe mango is better than unripe mango. Similarly, before attaining love of Godhead, you have got different stages. Just like the same mango, it passes through different stages, then one day it comes nice yellow color, fully ripened, and taste is so nice. The same mango. The mango does not change, but it comes to the mature stage. So this... As this example, the mango is in the beginning a flower, then gradually a little fruit. Then gradually it grows. Then it becomes very tight, green, and then, gradually, it becomes little, little yellowish, and it becomes fully ripe. This is the process of everything. In material world also, there are six processes, and the last process is vanquish.



*This mango example or any other material example, we can accept it so far the growth is required, concerned, but material example is not perfect. Just like mango, when it is ripe, somebody eats, that's all right. Otherwise it will overripe, it will decompose, it will fall down, and finish. That is material. But spiritual is not like that. It is not finished. If you once come to the stage of mature stage of love, then that perfectional stage continues eternally, and your life is successful. Premā pum-artho mahān. There are many different types of perfection in this material world. Somebody is thinking, "This is perfection of life." Materialists, they are thinking, "If I can enjoy my senses very nicely, that is perfection of life." That is their point of view. And when they are frustrated, they find out, or try to find out, something better. So if he's not guided, something better means the same-sex and intoxication. That's all. Simply becomes irresponsible. That's all. Because there is no guide. He's finding out, searching out something better, but because there is no guide, he comes to the same sense or sex and intoxication*-to forget. A businessman, when he's failure, so much disturbance. He tries to forget him by drinking. But this is artificial way. This is not actually the remedy. How long you can forget? Sleep-how long you can sleep? Again wake up, again you are in the same position. That is not the way. But if you come to the stage of love of Godhead, then naturally you forget all this nonsense. Naturally. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. If you find out something more palatable, more relishable, you give up nonsense things which is not so nice to taste.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a thing. It is leading you to a standard where going you will forget all this nonsense. That is real life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you come that state, then your symptom will be that you are jolly. You are feeling everywhere. There is a... There are many instances. So when you accept this material world in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, you'll taste that love of Godhead, even in this material world. Actually, material world means completely in forgetfulness of God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is material world. Otherwise, if you are in full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, you'll find only spiritual world, even in this material world. Consciousness*-it is all consciousness. The same example. Just like the king and the bug is sitting on the same throne, but the bug knows that "My business is simply to get some blood." That's all. The king knows that "I have to rule. I am the ruler of this country." So sitting on the same place, but the consciousness is different. Similarly, if you change your consciousness to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, wherever you are, you are in Vaikuṇṭha. Wherever, it doesn't matter. Yes?

Guest: I would like you to explain the origin and significance of what you, what they call the Jagannātha car festival.



*Prabhupāda: Jagannātha festival significance is that when Kṛṣṇa left Vṛndāvana... Kṛṣṇa was raised by His foster father, Nanda Mahārāja. But when He was grown up, 16 years old, He was taken away by His real father, Vasudeva, and They left Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma, two brothers, and They were resident..., Their kingdom was in Dvārakā. So in Kurukṣetra*-Kurukṣetra is always dharma-kṣetra, pilgrimage-there was some lunar, solar eclipse, and many persons from many parts of India, they came to take bath. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma and Their sister Subhadra, They also came in royal fashion, with so many soldiers, and so many..., just like king. So these residents of Vṛndāvana, they met Kṛṣṇa, and especially the gopīs, they saw Kṛṣṇa, and they lamented that "Kṛṣṇa, You are here, we are also here, but the place is different. We are not in Vṛndāvana." So there is a long story how they lamented and how Kṛṣṇa pacified them. This is a feeling of separation, how the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana felt separation from Kṛṣṇa. So this... When Kṛṣṇa came on chariot, that is called Ratha-yātrā. This is the history of Ratha-yātrā. So any pastimes made by Kṛṣṇa, that is observed in ceremonial form by the devotees. So that is Ratha-yātrā.



Guest: How may we recognize yogamāyā?



Prabhupāda: I do not know what is your question.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to know how we may recognize yogamāyā, how we may know.



*Prabhupāda: Yogamāyā? Yogamāyā means that which connects you. Yoga means connection. When you are being gradually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the action of yogamāyā. And when you are gradually forgetting Kṛṣṇa, that is the action of mahāmāyā. Māyā is acting upon you. The one is dragging you, and one is pushing you opposite way. Yogamāyā. So, just like the example, that you are always under the laws of government. You cannot deny. If you say, "I don't agree to abide by the laws of government," that is not possible. But when you are a criminal, you are under the police laws, and when you are gentleman, you are under the civil laws. The laws are there. In any situation, you have to obey the laws of government. If you remain as a civilized citizen, then you are always protected by the civil law. But as soon as you are against the state, the criminal law will act upon you. So the criminal activities of law is mahāmāyā, threefold miseries, always. Always putting in some sort of misery. And the civil department of Kṛṣṇa, ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. You simply go on increasing the, I mean to say, depth of the ocean of joy. Ānandambudhi-vardhanam. That is the difference, yogamāyā and mahāmāyā. Yogamāyā is... Yogamāyā, the original yogamāyā, is Kṛṣṇa's internal potency. That is Rādhārāṇī. And mahāmāyā is external potency, Durgā. This Durgā is explained in Brahma-saṁhitā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā is the superintending goddess of this whole material world. Everything is going on under his, under her control. Prakṛti, prakṛti is energy. Energy is accepted as feminine. Just like these materialistic persons, they are also working under some energy. What is that energy? The sex life. That's all. They're troubling so much: "Oh, at night I'll have sex life." That's all. That is the energy. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Their life is based on the sex. That's all. Everyone is working so hard, culminating in sex. That's all. This is material life. So energy. The material energy means sex. So that is energy. If a person who is working in the factory, if you stop sex, he cannot work. And when he's unable to enjoy sex life, then he takes intoxication. This is material life. So energy must be there. Here in the material world the energy is sex, and in the spiritual world the energy is love. Here the love is misrepresented in sex. That is not love; that is lust. Love is only possible with Kṛṣṇa, nowhere else. Nowhere else love is possible. That is misrepresentation of love. That is lust. So love and lust. Love is yogamāyā, and lust is mahāmāyā. That's all. (long pause) Is that all right?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. (soft laughter)



Prabhupāda: So, any other question?



Jāhnavā: Christ consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the words are so similar. Please combine the words, explain how the words came to us.



*Prabhupāda: That I've explained many times: a pocket dictionary and international dictionary. You cannot say that pocket dictionary is no dictionary, but it is meant for a certain class of student. And international dictionary is meant for a certain class of student. They are all student. Was Christ... What was spoken by Christ, that is also God consciousness, but that was meant for a certain class of men. And what class of men they were? They're not even perfectly civilized. Because Christ was explaining God consciousness, that was his fault, and they crucified him. What class of men they were? Judge. His only fault was that he was explaining God, and they crucified him. The reward was crucifixion. So what kind of class of men they were? The status of that society, just try to understand. Therefore what spoke..., what was spoken by Lord Jesus Christ, for them, that was sufficient. But when Bhagavad-gītā is spoken to a person like Arjuna, that is different thing. So we have to speak according to the time, according to the circumstances, according to the audience. Don't you see that here only a few persons are attending? Why? They cannot understand this Kṛṣṇa science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not meant for all classes of men. It is highest standard of God consciousness. Love. Love of God. So there is also teachings of love of God, undoubtedly. That is the difference. The same thing. Always try to understand. The small pocket dictionary for students while in the primary stage, and international dictionary for higher students, postgraduate students*-the both of them are dictionaries. But it is meant for somebody, it is meant for somebody. And the test is phalena paricīyate. Phalena paricīyate, you have to understand. Suppose you are traveling in a forest. So many trees are there. But you cannot understand what is this tree, what is that. But as soon as you see the flower, "Oh, here is apple. Oh, this is apple tree." Just like the other day you were telling me, you never saw apple tree? Yes. Now, as soon as you saw the apple, you understood, "This is apple tree. Oh!" The test of any scripture is how one is developing love of God. Phalena paricīyate. If you find that following some religious principles you are developing your love of God, then it is perfect. It doesn't matter whether it is Bible or Koran or Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. We have to see what is the fruit. If the fruit is that people are developing love of Godhead, then it is perfect. Don't try to understand whether this is good, this is good, this is bad, this is... No. Try to understand by the result. Just like the same way: if you see the fruit, then it is first class. So it doesn't matter whether it is Bible or Gītā. If you can develop love of Godhead by reading Bible, it is first class, and if you can develop love of Godhead by Bhagavad-gītā, it is first class. And if you do not, then either it is Bible or the Koran or Bhagavad-gītā, it has no effect for you. So it is up to you. Not by comparison, but by your own activities. If you actually follow the instruction given by Lord Jesus Christ, you will also develop love of Godhead. There is no doubt. Similarly, if you follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, you will also develop. So it is up to you. You try to follow. If you do not follow, simply try to make a comparative study "This is good" or "This is bad," "This is bad" or "This is good," that is called śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]-simply laboring. Why comparative study? Just see how much you are developing love of Godhead, that's all. Phalena paricīyate. "Whether it is apple is there, that's all right; never mind what is this tree. I'm concerned with the apple." Yes.



Upendra: Prabhupāda, sometimes there may be differences between what is love of Godhead between Christian and Moslem, Moslem and Buddhist, Buddhist, Hindu. They may quarrel at what is love of Godhead.



*Prabhupāda: The quarrel, they, those who are not in love of Godhead, they must quarrel. That is the... Because they are cats and dogs. You cannot expect any peaceful condition between cats and dogs. They will fight. So whatever they may be, so long they are fighting, that means they are not on the perfectional stage. Where is the fighting? If you love God, then you love everyone. That is the sign. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. After attaining the stage of equality, then you can enter into the realm of loving God. Before that, you have to pass. Just like before entering law college you have to become graduate, similarly, before entering the realm of devotional service you have to realize that all living entities are on the same platform. That is realization. You cannot make any distinction that "This is lower," "This is higher." No. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. When a person is fully learned, he does not make any distinction that "He is human being, he is cow, he is dog." He sees that he is spirit soul covered in different dress. That's all. That is his vision, universal equality vision. You cannot say that dog has no life, the cow has no life. How can you say that there is no life? That is lack of your knowledge. What is the symptom of life? You will find the symptom of life is there in human being, in ant also. How you can say that small creatures, lower animals have no life? That is lack of your knowledge. Even trees, plants, they have got life. So perfect knowledge required. So love of Godhead on the basis of perfect knowledge is real love of God. Otherwise it is fanaticism. So the fanatics, they may fight. That is not love of Godhead. (pause) Of course, it is very difficult to come to that stage, but one should try. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are all student. We are trying. But there are degrees also. Just like in a educational institution there is tenth class, eighth class, fifth class, sixth class. And with the yoga, it is just like a staircase or a lift. So there are different stages of perfection. The highest perfection is who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate... [Bg. 6.47]. The highest perfectional is Kṛṣṇa, thinking always Kṛṣṇa, and Rādhārāṇī. That is the highest perfectional stage. She has no other business: simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa.



Viṣṇujana: While we are chanting our rounds, or while we are chanting out loud in kīrtana, is it all right to be engaging our mind in thinking?



Prabhupāda: Is it not?



Viṣṇujana: He is already (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: This is practical way? (laughter) If you are not minding, the chanting will force you to mind upon Him. You see? Kṛṣṇa sound will by force. Chanting is so nice. And this is the practical yoga in this age. You cannot meditate. Your mind is so disturbed, you cannot concentrate your mind. Therefore chant, and by the sound vibration, it will forcibly enter it into your mind. Even if you don't want Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will enter within your mind. By force. (laughter) This is the easiest process. You don't require to endeavor. Kṛṣṇa is coming. (laughter) (Prabhupāda laughs) It is very nice process. This is recommended therefore, for this age. And others also will be benefited. You chant loudly. Others who are not accustomed, they will also. At least... Just like on the street, in the park, they say "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" How they have learned? By hearing this chanting. That's all. Sometimes the children, as soon as they see us, they say "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa!" In Montreal the children, when I was walking on the street, all the children, the shopkeepers, the storekeepers, they will say "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" And that's all. So we have forced Hare Kṛṣṇa within the mind. If you practice yoga, meditate, it may be beneficial for you, but this is beneficial for many others. Suppose something very good, you are enjoying yourself, some sweetballs*-that is one stage. But if you distribute sweetballs, that is another stage. So by chanting on the road, on the street, you are distributing sweetballs. (laughter) You are not miser, that you are eating yourself. You are so liberal that you are distributing to others. Now chant, distribute. (laughter) (kīrtana) (end)





681020LE.SEA

Lecture to College Students

-

Seattle, October 20, 1968,

Introduction by Tamāla Kṛṣṇa



*(kīrtana, prema*-dhvanī)

*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you all very much for coming today to hear our spiritual master speak and join us in this saṅkīrtana festival. What we're doing here is searching and seeking after the Supreme Absolute Truth. We are searching after Kṛṣṇa, or God. In this last hundred years or so in this country there's been an increased awareness, consciousness, growing in the people-a need for expanded consciousness. People have been searching for some kind of spiritual realization. And to answer that kind of need there have been many men, so-called holy men or swamis, who have come, from mainly India. This began with Vivekananda. It is coming through this last hundred years, more and more men trying to answer the need of American people especially, for some kind of spiritual growth, spiritual realization. These men, unfortunately, are cheating the public. They are presenting the teachings that everything-all people, all objects, everything*-is God, and that to enjoy, enjoy in this world, this is the world to enjoy. To increase your consciousness so that you can enjoy more, that we are all God, that all things are God. This is nonsense. No revealed scriptures ever stated this. All scriptures are in agreement with one single thing: there's a supreme lovable person, the Lord, and it is the business of all entities to develop a love for Him. That is our connection with God. We are part and parcel of the Lord. We are connected to Him but we are not Him. It is our ability.



*Our consciousness can be brought to the point where I can develop love for God. This is what our spiritual master teaches, that God is great and He is mighty. He is teaching this, and there is no difference in any scripture. They all teach this. We are in complete agreement with Lord Jesus and the Bible. The Bible too states that the Lord is great, God is great, He is mighty. The differences in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the Bhagavad-gītā and the Vedic scriptures which we study in our courses at our temple, is that the Bhagavad-gītā is like this: If there is a young boy who is in the sixth grade and he wants to find out about birds, he'll open a dictionary, a pocket dictionary, and he'll read about birds, and the definition will state that it's an entity which flies through the air. There might be a picture there of a bird. Whereas a person who's studying for a graduate course and doing a thesis perhaps on the different kinds of birds, he needs something more for finding out about birds than just that they fly through the air. He opens an international dictionary. He opens an encyclopedia. He finds out all the varieties of birds, where they fly to, where they nest. He gets all the details about birds. Similarly, for those who are interested in finding out all the details about how God is great, how He is mighty, that is "What does He look like?" "What does He do?" "Who is He?"*-you go through the Vedic scriptures. This is not to say that the Bible is nonsense. The Bible is the Absolute Truth. It is Absolute Truth that Lord Jesus taught. But look at the people to whom he taught. They crucified him for teaching about God. He could not teach as great a depth as he would have liked to. He could teach only to the audience that was listening, and yet they still crucified him. These Vedic scriptures, the Bhagavad-gītā which our spiritual master speaks from, is also the Absolute Truth, but it is in all its variegatedness, all its detail. And there's such a need to hear a man like our spiritual master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, speak. He is a pure devotee, pure lover of the Lord. That is the qualification for one who can teach about God. He must be one hundred percent engaged in glorifying the Lord, that his every action, every word, must be spent on account of the Supreme Lord. Nothing else.

I had an article sent to us by some Godbrothers from New York. It's really a pertinent article. Very interesting. It's from the Daily News, a big New York newspaper. The heading reads, "Drive and aid(?) retreat for priests who drink." It goes on to say, "Right now there are 5,000 alcoholic priests in the U.S., and the number is growing, according to a spokesman for Guesthouse, a sanatorium dedicated to preventing priests from wrecking their lives." These are the holy men. Now I'm not to say that all priests are like this. That's not at all what I'm trying to get at. But the point is that so many spiritual men in this age are not spiritual men at all. They're cheaters, they're deceivers. They are themselves drunkards. That's the problem that's stated here. It goes on to say that alcoholism is not treated as a moral failure, but as a disease. But that's absurd. It is a moral failure. These priests have the right to drink or not to drink. They chose to drink and get drunk. But these are men that are leading us back to God. The point is, you must have someone who is pure, who does not take any kind of intoxicants, does not smoke, does not gamble, no illicit sex. These are the qualifications. Look to Jesus for example. He was the perfect example. Look to Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. Look to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya for example. There are qualifications for a bona fide spiritual master just as there are qualifications for one who wishes to teach you any science that you take in this school. He must pass the examinations. He must be qualified. If his moral character fails, he gets booted out of the school. Similarly, to teach about God, there must be moral qualification. There must be status, and our spiritual master is a living example. He spends one hundred percent of his time in praise of the Supreme Lord. We ask you today, please listen closely and just try to understand his divine teaching. Just listen. Test with your reasoning ability, your intellect. All the knowledge you have gained, test and see whether this is not the bona fide way. Test and see whether this is not Absolute Truth. Now let His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda speak.

Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*This prayer is to the spiritual master. Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya. Everyone born in this material world is in ignorance, born ignorant. We should take it for granted, this material world is called tama. The Vedic injunction is tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in this darkness; *come to the light." Actually, this material world is dark. It is lighted with sunlight, moonlight, electric light, this light, that light. Its nature is darkness. That is a scientific fact. So anyone born in this material world, beginning from Brahma, the chief personality in the topmost planet of this universe, down to the ant*-everyone is in darkness. Therefore this prayer, ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Everyone is put into the darkness, and one who opens the eyes by the torch of knowledge... Darkness means without knowledge. So it is the duty of the spiritual master to open the eyes of the person in darkness with torch of knowledge. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena. The person who opens our eyes in that way, he is the spiritual master. And one may offer his respectful obeisances unto such personality.



*So people should not be put into darkness, but they should be brought into light. Therefore in every human society, there is a sort of institution which is called religious institution. Take it for granted-Hinduism, Muslimism, or Christianism or Buddhism-any "ism" you take*-what is the purpose? The purpose is to bring the persons to the light. That is the purpose of religion. And what is that light? That light is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Religion means the codes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like in the state, there is king's law. The king gives you some law, and if you are a good citizen, you are to obey those laws, and you live peacefully. This is crude example. Similarly, dharma or religion means to obey the laws of God, that's all. It may be different according to time, circumstances, people. Just like laws in India, the state laws in India may not agree cent percent with the laws of United States. But that does not mean there is no law. And one has to abide by the law. That is the general principle. Similarly, human being, without obeying the laws of God, he is animal. Just like on the street there is signboard, "Keep to the right." A human being obeys the law, "Keep to the right," and if he does not obey, he goes to the police custody. But if an animal disobeys, there is no law for him. So all those laws, all those scriptures, all those religious principles are made for man, not for animals. Therefore a person without religious principles, without God consciousness, is no better than an animal. That is the definition given in the Vedic literature. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. Eating, sleeping, sex life and defense, these four principles are equal, common, in human life and animal life. Dharma hy tasya eka viśeṣa. The distinction of human life and animal life is that a man is searching after God; an animal cannot search after God. That is the difference. Therefore a man without that urge for searching after God is no better than animal. That is accepted fact in every civilized society. Unfortunately, at the present moment, in every state, in every society, they are trying to forget God. Some of them are publicly speaking that there is no God, or if there is God, He is dead, and so on. So this is very precarious condition of the human society.

There is a very nice story. One rat, he was troubled with cat. So he came to a saintly person: "My dear sir, I am very much troubled." "What is the difficulty?" The rat said, "The cat always chases. So I'm not in peace of mind." "Then what do you want?" "Please make me a cat." "All right, you become a cat." After few days, the same cat again came to the saintly person, says, "My dear sir, I am again in trouble." "What is that?" "The dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "Make me a dog." "All right, you become a dog." Then after few days, again he comes. He says, "I am again in trouble, sir." "What is that?" "The foxes are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "To become a fox." "All right, you become a fox." Then again he comes. He says, "Oh, tigers are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a tiger." "All right, you become a tiger." And when he became a tiger, he began to stare his eyes on the saintly person: "I shall eat you." "Oh, you shall eat me? I have made you tiger, and you want to eat me?" "Yes, I am tiger. I shall eat you." Oh, then he cursed him, "Again you become a rat. Again you become a rat." So he became a rat.

*So our human civilization is going to be like that. The other day I was reading in your*-what is called?-World Almanac. In the next hundred years people will live underground like rats. So our scientific advancement has created this atomic bomb to kill man, and it will be used. And we have to go underground to become again rat. From tiger, again rat. That is going to be. That is nature's law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. If you defy the laws of your state and you are put into difficulty, similarly if you continue to defy the authority, the supremacy of the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead, then the same result: again you become rat. As soon as there is atomic bomb, everything, all civilization on the surface of the globe will be finished. So people may not like it. It may be very unpalatable, but the fact is like that. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt ma brūyāt satyam abrūyāt. It is social convention that if you want to speak truth, you speak truth very palatable, flattering. Don't speak unpalatable truth. But we are not meant for that purpose, social convention. We are preacher, we are servant of God. We must speak the real truth. You may like it or may not like it, that a godless civilization cannot be happy in any stage. That is a fact. Therefore we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to awaken this godless civilization, that you try to love God. This is the simple fact. You have got love within you. You want to love somebody. A young boy tries to love a young girl, young girl tries to love another young boy. This is natural, because the love is there. But we have created certain circumstances that love is being frustrated. Why? Everyone is frustrated. Husband, wife, boys, girls, man to man, states to states, everywhere, the love is not being utilized properly. Why? The missing point is that we have forgotten to love the Supreme Person. That is the disease.

*So the purpose of religion is to train persons how to love God. That is the purpose of all religion. Either you take Christianism or Hinduism or any "ism," the purport is that you try to love God, because that is our natural inclination. Even in uncivilized society, when there is some thunderbolt, they immediately offer obeisances. That is natural. And in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. Now this word dharma is translated or explained in the English dictionary, "religion," as "a kind of faith." But in Sanskrit dictionary, dharma means characteristic. Just like sugar. Sugar's characteristic is sweetness. If you are given some sugar, if you find it, it is not sweet, you at once reject it: "Oh, it is not sugar. It is something else." So that sweetness is the characteristic of sugar. Similarly, sour taste is the characteristic of salt, pungency is the characteristic of chili. Similarly, what is your characteristic, living entity? That you have to study. That is your religion. Not that Christian religion, Hindu religion, or this religion, that religion. Your eternal characteristic, what is that eternal characteristic? You want to love somebody, and therefore you want to serve. That is your characteristic. You want your society... You love your society, you love your family, you love your country, you love your community. Because you love, therefore you serve. That is your characteristic. Either you are Christian or either you are Muhammadan, either you are Hindu, this characteristic will go on. Suppose today you are Christian, tomorrow you become Hindu. That service mood, that loving spirit, goes with you, either you become Hindu or Muslim or Christian. Therefore that service spirit and love, the tendency to love and service spirit, is your characteristic, and that is your religion. That is the universal form of religion. You have to apply your natural characteristic in a certain place, where you will be satisfied. Your service spirit is (indistinct). You have to apply your natural characteristic in a certain place, where you will be satisfied. Your service spirit is there, your loving spirit is there, but because it is misplaced, you are not happy, you are frustrated, you are confused. The Bhāgavata gives you indication, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is the first-class system of religion, which trains you to love God. And if you have developed that tendency to the fullest extent, to love God, then you are perfect man. And then you will feel perfection within yourself. Yayātmā suprasīdati. You are hankering after satisfaction, full satisfaction. That full satisfaction can be obtained only when you love God. That is the natural function. It doesn't matter whether you are following Christianism or Hinduism or Muhammadanism. Just try to understand how much you have developed your God consciousness to love God. Then in your any religion is nice, very nice. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. After executing your ritualistic performances in particular type of religion throughout the whole life, if you do not see that you have no love for God, then simply you have wasted your time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

*Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that: it is the postgraduate movement of all kinds of religion. We are inviting either Christian or Muslim or Hindus or this or that*-we do not mind-"Please come with us and try to love God." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And the method is very simple. Method is very simple. You chant this holy name: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. All these, my students, all of them are Americans, and they come from Christian or Jewish group. None of them came from Hindu or India. But what is the process I have given to them? The process is chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very simple method. By chanting this mantra... Mantra. Mantra means... The Sanskrit word mantra, man means mind, and tra means deliverance. Mantra means that which delivers you from the mental concoction or hovering on the mental plane. Every one of us is hovering on the mental plane. By mind we are creating so many things: "I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in that way." But mantra means when you are delivered from that concoction, speculative way of your mind, and you come to the transcendental platform. That is the effect of mantra. So this mantra, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is called the mahā-mantra. Mahā-mantra means the greatest of all mantras. And this is the only suitable mantra for this age. This age is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means the age of disagreement. Nobody agrees. Even husband, wife does not agree, what to speak of others. The father, son does not agree. Nobody agrees with anyone. This is the age like that. So in this age of disagreement you cannot say that this type of religion is nice, that type of religion is nice. That is finished now. You have to take this mantra: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And you'll find it that very soon you are coming to the light.

So I do not wish to take much of your time, but simply I want to impress upon you that this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is so nice that if you give in an experimental way... You can see. You chant for at least one week and you see how much you have changed. So these boys, they are chanting in the street. We have got many branches in your country, one in London, one in Germany, and everyone is taking part. It is increasing. So we don't charge anything, neither you have got any loss. If there is any profit, you can try it, but there is no loss. That is guaranteed. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. (end)



681026LE.MON

Lecture

-

Montreal, October 26, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Why people are forced to commit sinful activities? This point is also discussed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is that thing which forces a man to commit sinful activities?" Just like the same example that one man is seeing practically that one who has committed something criminal, he is punished. And he has heard it also from authorities, from lawyers or from respectable gentlemen, that "If you commit such and such sinful activities... If you steal, then you will be imprisoned for six months. If you cheat, you'll be imprisoned for such and such period. If you commit murder, then you'll be hanged." These things are taught some way or other. Either in religious scripture or by lawbooks or by morality or ethical principle, they are taught to the human, civilized human society. And he sees also practically that "This man has committed this kind of criminality, and he is punished." And again why does he commit? That is the problem. So kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Kāma and krodha. Kāma means desire, lust. Kāma. And when the desire or lust is not fulfilled, then there is krodha. Krodha means anger. There are so many cases of criminality, when the lust is not fulfilled, one commits some criminal action and he is punished and so many things happen. So kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. As we have discussed many times that we are in this material world controlled by the three modes of material nature. Three qualities: goodness, passion and ignorance. So goodness... Yes, passion and ignorance are the causes of our bondage. And goodness is also cause of bondage, but in that platform one can see things as they are. Goodness. Prakāśa. Just like at night we cannot see, but in daytime we see. But seeing is not all. Unless I am convinced of something, even seeing... Just the same example: one man is seeing that a criminal person is punished; still he is committing criminal act.



*So Śukadeva Gosvāmī's question is that suppose a man commits some sinful activities and he executes some atonement. In atone... This atonement is prescribed in every religion... (child sounds in background) (aside:) This is disturbing. Attention is diverted. Yes. So just like in the Christian church, they have the atonement process, confession. So suppose if you go weekly in the church and confess your sinful activities and it is excused, but again, next week you again commit the same sinful activities. Then what is the use of that confession and atonement? If you make it a business that "The whole week I shall commit sinful activities, and on Sunday I shall go to church and confess it, then everything will be balanced, squared*-off account," that is all right. Then again from Monday you begin the sinful activities. So is that very good business? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja's question is that, that the atonement is there. But if one commits atonement and again commits sinful activities, then what is the use of such atonement? It is just like... He gave the example, kuñjara-snānavat. The elephant takes bath very nicely in the water, and as soon as he comes on the land, he takes dust and throws over, all over the body. So what is the use of taking bath? Similarly, if I am accustomed to commit sinful activities and for that reason I confess and make some atonement, then what is the use? That is the question of Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He's very intelligent. If I do again and again and again the same thing and make some atonement... So in every religion there are processes of atonement, prāyaścitta. In Hindu religion also there is such thing. Every religion such thing is there. But the purpose of such atonement is to bring the man, criminal man to consciousness. He should be conscious of his sinful activities. That is the idea. Just like a child has committed some wrong and he comes to the father. The father sees that he has done something wrong. So the child confesses, "Yes, father, I have done it. Please excuse me." "All right. Excused." The father says, "Don't do it again." Second time, again he commits the same thing. The father or the teacher says, "Oh, again you have committed?" "Yes. Please excuse me. I shall not do it again." "All right. Excused." But if on the third time again he commits the sin, what the father and the teacher will do? He will slap him. Yes. Just to teach him, "Nonsense. I have warned you twice, thrice, and again you are doing that? No more excuse. Now punishment." This is natural. So if I go to God, if I go and confess, "Father, God, Supreme Father, I have done these sinful activities. I am confessing," "All right." The father excuses. If you make it a business, that "I shall do it and confess," then what will be the result? The result will be punishment. That is natural consequence. So people should come to the understanding that "These sinful activities I shall not do." But he is forced to do, impelled by the quality of passion and ignorance. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why does he so, as if being forced by some agent? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā that rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ.

*So we have to come to the platform of goodness from the platform of ignorance and passion. Then our life will be successful. Our life, the human form of life, is meant for changing the platform of activities. The animals, they cannot change their platform (of) activities. A tiger, however you instruct it nicely, it is not to be tamed. It is not... Because it is animal. It cannot change its, I mean to say, activities. But a human being, if he is trained... Therefore for human being there is system of the schooling. The children are... [break] They are advised to go to the church, to go to take moral instruction. It is for the human being, not for the animals. Because the human form of life can accept and make his path clear. His present activities, path, is very hazy. He does not know where he is going, what is his destination of life. That he does not know. Therefore education, training, and all so many things there are in every civilized human form of life so that he may come to the platform of goodness. And not only that goodness. One has to surpass that platform of goodness and come to the platform of pure goodness. In this material world it is very difficult to stand on the platform of goodness pure. Even a good man sometimes commits some mistake, commits some blunder in the material world. Because you should always remember that there are three modes of material nature*-ignorance, passion, and goodness. Even you are on the platform of goodness, the other two qualities may be studied. Because it is the kingdom of māyā, or material nature, these things are very prominent. Sometimes goodness is prominent, sometimes ignorance is prominent, sometimes passion is prominent. In this way sometimes they are mixed up.

*So three into three equal to nine. Nine into nine equal to eighty-one. Therefore you will find manifestation of eighty-one kinds of qualitative living entities. And they are divided into 8,400,000 species of life. These are very scientific studies. Try to understand it. And this human form of life is the chance to get out of this entanglement. These eighty-one, again if you multiply eighty-one by eighty-one, then it becomes huge quantity. So in this way these qualities are mixed up, colors. Just like three colors, blue, red and yellow. You mix and you produce multi-colors. If you are expert in color mixing... All these picture, whatever you are seeing, there are only three colors-blue, red and yellow*-and you mix, varieties of color. Those who are artists, they know it very well. Similarly, these three qualities, three colors. The yellow is sattva-guṇa and the blue is the tamo-guṇa and the red is rajo-guṇa. These colors, they are representation of these three modes of material nature. Redness means passion, and blue, black, that means ignorance, and yellow, yellow is goodness. Therefore you see Kṛṣṇa and all others, they're in yellow dress. Of course in the spiritual world there is no such distinction. There is variety, but there is no inebriety. That is spiritual world.

*Just like here you see Kṛṣṇa is in love with beautiful young girls. The same thing is here also. We are also accustomed to love beautiful girls, or beautiful girls accustomed to love beautiful boys. So the same thing is going on there in the spiritual world. It is simply reflection. The real thing is there in the spiritual world. It is simply shadow. The same loving affairs in a shadowy, hazy form is represented here. Originally it is in the spiritual world, in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not to be supposed old man. God is never an old man. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is stated,

*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

[Bs. 5.33]



God, Kṛṣṇa, He's the original person because from the original father, you can take, from whom everyone has come. Therefore He's the oldest. Advaitam acyutam anādim ādyam. Ādyam means the original person. Man is made after God; *therefore God is original person. So that person ādyam, acyutam, anādim, nava*-yauvanaṁ ca. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca means He is always a young man. Just like you are all young men, attractive. Young life is attractive. So that youthful age is always in the spiritual world. And as the youthful means joyful life, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt... (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). All young boys and young girls, they are after joyfulness, but they are being frustrated in this material world. That is the inebriety. The spiritual world means these things are there, but without any inebriety. Here we love. A boy loves a girl; a girl loves... But they are frustrated. After few days it is broken. Or if it is married, then again there is divorce. He finds another husband; *she finds out another... Like that. These things are not there. Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa, the love of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is never broken. Never broken. That is the significance of the spiritual... They are eternally enjoying the loving affairs. And if you qualify yourself, then you leave this material world, this interaction of the modes of material nature, and be implicated in such things and you become free, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very nice. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious perfectly, you are no longer living in this material world. You are in the spiritual world. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo-murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



*Very nice verse. What is this? It is said, samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavam. The lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa is compared with a very nice boat. Boat. Just like lotus flower. His everything is like lotus flower. One who has accepted this boat... Because this material world is a great ocean of nescience, darkness. This is the nature. Just like at night you see, this space is a great ocean of darkness. That is the nature. Therefore it is called tama. This world's nature... Here we require the sunlight, the moonlight, the electricity; otherwise it is dark. By nature it is dark. So you are put into the darkness. There is no light. But there is another nature, which is full of light. Therefore Vedic injunction is tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in this darkness. Try to come out to the light." That is spiritual world. That is spiritual world. Jyotir gamaḥ tamasi mā. Don't remain in this darkness.



*So the whole process is how to get out of this darkness. How to get out of this darkness. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. The world of light is the kingdom of God, or Kṛṣṇaloka. Everything. Because just like you find day. What is this day? Day means a planet which is called sun globe appears. That is day. That means when your, this planet, world planet, turns and comes in front of the sun, it is day. Actually, it is darkness, but when we come in front of light, it is day. So there, in the spiritual planet, all planets are illuminating. This is an example, a sample, the sun. Sun is the only planet within this universe which is illuminating. All other planets are reflection of the sun. The moon, the stars, they are simply glittering, reflected by the sun. They are dark, just like this planet is dark. So similarly, in the spiritual sky all the planets are illuminating. None of the planets are dark. Therefore the whole sky is illuminating. There is no darkness. Just get an idea. Of course, it is not possible to explain what is the spiritual world from the material world, but from the śāstra... Just like you read geography. If you want to go to India, you get some idea that "India is like this. The shape is like this, the climate is like this, the people are like that." So you simply get an idea. But actual experience you'll get when you go to India. Similarly, the, we have got all these explanation in the śāstras what is that spiritual world, but we cannot conceive at the present moment the spiritual world. But you can conceive it. When you are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll be able. Because everything will be revealed. Spiritual knowledge cannot be acquired by these blunt senses. It is not possible. Just like people do not take much interest in our movement because they cannot understand. The senses are so blunt that they are not receptive. Just like a child. A child, it is not receptive; *therefore it is in its own business, crying or something want, talking. Similarly, our senses, our present senses, they are incapable of understanding what is God or what is God's kingdom. They cannot understand. It is not possible. The senses are blunt, ignorant. Ignorance and passion, the covering. But if you come out of this ignorance and passion, you come to the platform of goodness, then you can understand a little. Not fully. Then again you have to surpass, transcend the platform of goodness, which is called śuddha*-sattva, without any tinge of material qualities. That position. Just like we are on the surface of this planet. There is chance of being covered by the cloud. There is clear sky sometimes, sometimes covered. But you go above, little above, say, seven miles, or just you go by plane seven miles above, then there is no chance of cloud. Everything is sunlight. Everything is sunlight. Similarly, so long you remain in the lower platform of ignorance and passion, it is very difficult to understand what is the science of God. Therefore you have to come to the platform of goodness, and there you'll understand what is sun, what is sunlight, without any interruption. So for that reason, just like you have to go by some plane, by some machine seven miles up to be completely in pure sunlight, similarly, you have to attempt... You have got... Kṛṣṇa, or God, has given you the senses, the mind, the intelligence. You have to use them. If you use them for gratifying your senses, then you go down and down and down to the animal life. And if you use them for understanding God and His kingdom and your life, your relationship, that is also possible. So both way you can use your intelligence, your mind, your senses. Both ways.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to engage the mind, the senses, the intelligence always in Kṛṣṇa. Then there is no chance of materially being contaminated. Just like if you keep yourself always in the sunlight there is no chance of coming down into darkness. The darkness cannot penetrate light. Light can penetrate darkness. This is our practical experience. You cannot make sunlight dark, but your darkness can be lighted by sunlight. Similarly, if you keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no chance of coming māyā and attack you. No. That is not possible. But if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then māyā immediately will catch you. Just like side by side there is darkness and light. If you keep yourself light, there is no darkness, and if you keep yourself in darkness... So you have to use your intelligence. God has given you intelligence, mind, senses, and you have to utilize them. If you utilize, then you become free from these clutches of māyā or being covered by the three modes of material nature, ignorance, passion, even goodness. Even you become a very good man, moralist, that is also a bondage. That is also your bondage. You may have good knowledge, you may be a very good philosopher, you can understand, you may be a very learned man to understand what is this world, what is this, how it is working*-very great scientist, advanced, educated man. That is goodness. But that is not the cause of your being freed from material contamination. You have to go above goodness.

*Goodness is the qualification, is the symbolic representation of becoming a brāhmaṇa. You have heard this name brāhmaṇa. The brāhmaṇa means qualified man in goodness. That is the brāhmaṇa. And kṣatriya means qualified man in passion, and vaiśya means qualified man in ignorance and passion, and śūdra means qualified man in ignorance. These are the natural division of human society. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. By the division, qualitative division and their engagement, there are four castes. You sometimes criticize that India has got caste system. Everywhere the caste system is there-everywhere, throughout the whole universe. Because the three qualities are ruling. So some of them are in goodness, some of them are in passion, some of them are in ignorance, and some of them are in mixed-up qualities. So mixed-up qualities means vaiśya, and pure goodness is brāhmaṇa, and pure passion is kṣatriya, and pure ignorance is śūdra. So these divisions you'll find everywhere throughout the universe. It is not that... But in India also at the present moment this caste system has become a hereditary. No. It is not hereditary. A śūdra can become a brāhmaṇa-if he qualifies himself. Just like a policeman can one day become the learned judge of high-court if he qualifies himself. There is chance. There is educational facilities. You educate yourself. You become doctor of law, you also one day. You become one day president. Everyone is open. Similarly, the chance is open for everyone how to become the supreme man. Supreme man means one who understands God and his relationship. He is supreme man. All others, they are below the supreme man. The supreme man is the first-class man, and the others, who are below God understanding, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are second class, third class, fourth class, fifth class, like that. This is the classification. So below the third-class, fourth-class man, śūdras, they are called caṇḍālas. Caṇḍālas. Caṇḍālas means fifth-grade man. The fifth-grade man also can be elevated to the first-grade man. That is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā

ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ

*ye 'nye ca pāpā yad*-apāśrayāśrayāḥ

śudhyanti prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ

[SB 2.4.18]



God is so powerful. Just like sunlight is so powerful it can sterilize any infected thing. Any infected. Infection, we are afraid of being infected. But if you come to the sunlight, no infection. No infection. This is scientific. Similarly, whatever your qualification may be, however you may be impelled by the qualities of this material nature, if you come to the sunlight of Kṛṣṇa consciousness you become immediately purified. There are many instances among my students, how they have become immediately purified.



So we have to take to this process. Then there will be no more force that you commit criminality. No. There will be no chance if you become pure by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It has to be attained by tapasya. That is said tapasā. Tapasā means voluntarily being regulated. That is tapasā. Brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Brahmacaryeṇa means controlling the sex appetite. That is a brahmacārī. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena ca damena ca. Śamena means keeping the mind, equilibrium, without being disturbed. The process of meditation is meant for keeping the mind in equilibrium. That is śama. And dama, dama means controlling the senses. My senses are always dictating me, "Oh, you take this. You enjoy this. You do that. You do that." And I am being driven by. We are all servants of the senses. So we have become servant of senses. We have to transform to become servant of God. That's all. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You are already servant, but you are servant of the senses, and you are being dictated and being frustrated. You become servant of God. You cannot become master. That is not your position. You have to become servant. If you don't become servant of God, then you become servant of your senses. That is your position. So those who are intelligent, so they will understand that "If I have to remain a servant, why I shall remain servant of the senses? Why not of Kṛṣṇa?" This is intelligence. This is intelligence. And those who are foolishly keeping themselves as servant of the senses, they are spoiling their life.

Thank you very much. (end)



681113LE.LA

Lecture

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Los Angeles, November 13, 1968



*Prabhupāda: ...introduced by the disciplic succession of Lord Caitanya, and this Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura who has sung this hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu, he's a famous ācārya. His compositions are accepted as Vedic truth. So this purport of this song is very nice. He's lamenting, appealing to Hari, the Lord. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My dear Lord, I have uselessly spoiled my life." Biphale means uselessly, and janama means birth, and goṅāinu means "I have passed." He's representing a common man, as every one of us is simply spoiling our life. They do not know that they are spoiling their life. They are thinking that "I've got very nice apartment, very nice car, very nice wife, very nice income, very nice social position." So many things. These are the material attractions. Gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair. (child crying) (aside:) Stop it. Oh, that's all... The attraction, material attraction, is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in many ways. In one place it is very nicely summarized what is this material attraction. The basic principle of material attraction is sex. (child crying) Pumsaḥ striya mithuni-bhavam etam [SB 5.5.8]. A man is hankering after another woman, and the woman is hankering after another man. This is the basic principle of material life. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. Mithunī-bhāvam means sex. Tayor mitho hrdaya-granthim. And when they actually come into sexual life, each one of them becomes too much attracted. Hṛdaya-granthim. Granthi means very hard knot: "I cannot leave you." He says, "I cannot leave you. You are my life and soul," and she says, "You are my life and soul." For a few days. (laughs) And then again divorce. You see? But the beginning is there. Basic principle of material attraction is this sex life. This is general. Those who have organized the sex life in social convention in so many ways... The marriage is also another convention to give a very finishing nice touch than the animal. That's all. Just like sometimes it is said marriage is legalized prostitution. So for social convention the marriage is a license, but it is also based on the sex life. But for keep up social life, one has to accept some regulative principle. Therefore sex life like animals and sex life in marriage, there is difference. It is better. That is accepted in civilized world.



*So when they're united some way or other, then next demand is nice apartment, gṛha. The next demand, gṛha*-kṣetra, land. Because human civilization is based on land and cow, gavayā dhanavān. Formerly, a person was considered to be rich man by possession of the number of cows, by possession of land, not these papers, this false money. At the present moment, if you have got some printed paper, thousand dollars, they are papers actually. When the government is a failure, it has no value. But actually if you possess some land and cows, the government may fail or not fail, your value is there. That is actual property. Therefore in Sanskrit language it is said gavayā dhanavān. A man is known as rich man by the number of, by possession of the number of cows. That was the mode of civilization in the Vedic age. Gṛha-kṣetra-suta. Suta means children. When you have got apartment, when you have got wife, when you have got..., then next demand is children, suta. Because without children no home life is pleasant. Putra-hīnaṁ gṛhaṁ śūnyam. A home life is just like desert without children. Children is the attraction of home life. So grha-kṣetra-suta āpta. Āpta means relatives or society. Sutāpta-vittaiḥ: and all these paraphernalia are to be maintained on money. Therefore money is required, vittaiḥ. In this way, one becomes entangled in this material world. Janasya moho 'yam. This is called illusion. Illusion. Why illusion? So important things, why illusion? Illusion means that this nice paraphernalia arrangement-home, life, apartment, wife, children, society, position-everything is all right, but as soon as this body is finished, everything is finished. You're in a next platform. You do not know what is next platform. The next platform may be a human being or a cat or a dog or a demigod or anything. You do not know. And as soon as you have got a next life, you forget all these things. There is no remembrance what I was, what was my home. Everything is finished. Everything is finished-flash, just like a bubble. By the thrashing of different waves in the ocean, there are so many bubbles immediately generated, and the next moment they are all finished. Finished. Toye janame punaḥ toye samat (?). In this way the life is going on. The living entity is traveling in many species of life, in many planets. But this human form of life is an opportunity to understand how I am transmigrating from one place to another, one life to another, and simply wasting my time without understanding what is my constitutional position, why I am so much in distress, miseries. These things are to be understood in this human form of life. But instead of understanding my real position, the process of life, we reject everything. Simply I am engaged with the gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ [SB 5.5.8]. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ, home, society, money, position, everything is all right provided you can utilize it for elevating yourself from these material clutches. Otherwise, if you are simply engaged and captivated by these things, then I am spoiling my life.

*So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, representing ourself, he is lamenting, "My dear Lord, I have spoiled my life. I have simply spoiled my life." Why? This life, this human form of life, manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā. This human form of life was meant for understanding what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and worship Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa or Lord, His energy, whatever you call. Hare Kṛṣṇa or Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma, the same thing, the Lord and His energy. So, "Instead of making contact with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, I am simply spoiling my life in sense gratification." So he's lamenting, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "Uselessly I have spoiled my life." Why? What is your lamentation? He says, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, this transcendental vibration is not any material thing. It is imported from the transcendental abode, golokera. Goloka means the transcendental abode of Kṛṣṇa. Golokera prema-dhana. From there, the transcendental abode of Kṛṣṇa... Just like the sunshine, wherefrom it has come? From the sun planet. Everyone knows it. Although you cannot go there, it is far, far beyond your reach, but you can understand that the sunshine is coming from the sun globe. There is no doubt about it. Similarly this vibration, this shining, is coming from Kṛṣṇa, Goloka. Golokera prema-dhana. And prema-dhana means this chanting is in love with Kṛṣṇa. Golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy. "I've no attachment for this." Why should one be attached to this? That is explained in the next line: viṣaya-viṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jvale. Hiyā means heart. Our heart is always burning. Why? In touch with this material sense gratificatory process. No sense gratificatory process is giving me satisfaction. I'm trying this way, that way, this way, that way, that way. You see? Just like people are trying sense gratification in so many ways. They have come to the last point, naked picture, naked dance. What is called? That short, what is called?

Devotee: Miniskirt.



*Prabhupāda: Miniskirt, yes. (laughs) So because here the basic principle only sex, everyone is inviting, "Yes, come on, sex. Come on, sex." But this way, that way, sex, anyway you enjoy, you cannot be satisfied. That is certain. Because that is not your platform of enjoyment. You are spirit soul. Unless you come to the spiritual platform, these material, any kind of sense enjoyment... Therefore you will never be satisfied. You'll simply hankering after, but there will be no satisfaction. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, viṣaya*-viṣānale. Viṣaya means these material demands, eating, sleeping, mating, these are called viṣaya. They are just like poison, fire. So everyone is burning. Viṣaya-viṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jvale. Jvale means it is burning, my heart is burning. Tari bare nā koinu upāy. "But I did not search out the relief, the immediate relief, hari-saṅkīrtana, this chanting. I have no attachment for this. Therefore I have spoiled my life."



*Then he says, brajendra*-nandana yei, śacī-suta hoilo sei. Now, this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is introduced by Kṛṣṇa Himself, Vrajendra-nandana. Kṛṣṇa appeared as the son of Mahārāja Nanda in Vṛndāvana; *therefore He is called Vrajendra*-nandana, Vrajeśa-tanaya. These are names. So this same Vrajendra-nandana, Kṛṣṇa, has appeared as Śacīnandana. The Supreme Personality of Godhead takes pleasure when He's addressed with His devotee's name, with His energy's name. Devotee's also His energy. So He has no father. He is father of everyone. But He accepts some devotee. A devotee wants Kṛṣṇa as his son; therefore Kṛṣṇa accepts a devotee as His father. So nobody can become His father but a devotee... Just like this girl, Nandarāṇī, is raising her daughter, always giving service. The child is accepting service from the parents. Her business is only to accept. Torture and accept service. So devotees accept Kṛṣṇa as son so that Kṛṣṇa may simply torture them and accept service. That is the policy. Because the devotee want to render service, so this is the best way of service rendering. The child will draw always service. So this conception, fatherhood of the Absolute Truth, of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is undoubtedly very good, but there is no service. Father is meant for exacting: "Father, give me this. Father, give me this." And here, the Vaiṣṇava conception, to accept the Supreme as child to render service. Not to accept. No parents accept any service from the child, but he simply gives service.

*So anyway, Vrajendra*-nandana, the idea of accepting the Lord as son... Mahārāja Nanda accepted Kṛṣṇa as his son, similarly Śacīdevī accepted Lord Caitanya as his (her) son. So both of Them are the one. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "The same Vrajendra-nandana, Kṛṣṇa, has now appeared as Lord Caitanya, as the son of Śacī. And the same Balarāma has become Nitāi." And what is Their business? The business is pāpī-tāpī jata chilo: "They are claiming all kinds of sinful conditioned souls." Their only business is... Because in this age, Kali-yuga, you cannot find any perfectly pious man or saintly person. Everyone is addicted to so many sinful activities. So pāpī-tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. Simply by distributing this chanting, He claimed everyone, however fallen he may be. "Come on, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and become delivered." So nice thing. Pāpī-tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārila. What is the evidence that He has? Ta 'ra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. Jagāi-Mādhāi, they were two brothers, debauch number one. You see. They were all kinds of sinful affairs. They were drunkards, they were woman hunters, meat-eaters, so many things. And, of course, they were born in a very high brāhmaṇa family, but bad association, they became like that. Similarly, at the present age, this human society, although they are coming from the Aryan family, very nice family, but due to association the only environment is there's woman and intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. That's all. So Jagāi-Mādhāi is the specimen sample of this population, and Lord Caitanya delivered them simply by this Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this chanting process, Hare Kṛṣṇa, will actually deliver all these fallen souls without any failure. It is not bogus propaganda. Anyone who will take to this chanting process, whatever, you don't consider about his past life. He will become saintly. He will become a pure Kṛṣṇa conscious person. So pāpī-tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, ta 'ra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi. The evidence is Jagāi-Mādhāi.

*Then he says, hā hā... When he has come to the senses, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then he surrenders. This process, the chanting process, will purify our heart, our burning heart, and one will come to the understanding that "I am eternal servitor of the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa." Then, as soon as he comes to this understanding, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19], "After many, many births when one person becomes actually wise, a man of wisdom, jñānavān'-jñānavān means wise man-then what does he do? "He surrenders unto Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. "Because Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything." Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "That kind of great soul is very rare." That is stated in... But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made easy to become such kind of great soul simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, at the end he says, hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-juta. Again the sutā, the son, son of Nanda, and Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of Vṛṣabhānu, They are standing. Kṛṣṇa... Vaiṣṇava, they do not worship Kṛṣṇa alone without Rādhārāṇī. They do not worship Rāma without Sītā. They do not worship Nārāyaṇa without Lakṣmī, because the Lord and the energy must be there. We don't say..., we don't believe that God is without any energy. No. "Hare Kṛṣṇa." First the energy is addressed, Harā, Hare, then Kṛṣṇa. So here also, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays, "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, You are now present before me with Your internal potency, Your pleasure potency, Rādhārāṇī. So I am surrendering unto You." Hā hā prabhu nanda-sutā. "Don't neglect me because I am so sinful, my past life is so black. Don't neglect me. Please accept me. Don't kick me away. I surrender unto You." This is the purport of this song.

So this instruction should be taken by all of us. The purificatory process is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as our heart is purified, we completely become convinced that "The Lord is Supreme. I am His eternal servant. I have forgotten this. Servant, my servitorship is there, but instead of serving the Lord, I am serving my senses. That's all. I have never become the master. I am not master of my sense; I am the servant of my senses. That is my position." So why not becoming the servant of the Supreme instead of serving on the servant of the senses? You cannot become master. Actually, you become master of the senses when you are actually servant of Kṛṣṇa; *otherwise it is not possible. There are two words, gosvāmī and go*-dāsa. Persons who are servant of their senses, they are called materialistic go-dāsa, and persons who are master of the senses, they are called gosvāmī. Gosvāmī. They control the senses. The tongue wants to eat something which is not... "Oh," he controls. "Oh, tongue, you cannot taste these things. It is not Kṛṣṇa prasāda." Therefore he becomes gosvāmī, master. He does not allow the tongue to eat any nonsense thing except Kṛṣṇa prasāda. He cannot allow his senses, his anything for sense gratification. Only for the service. That is called devotional service. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti, this devotional service, means when you engage your senses for the satisfaction of the master of the senses. The supreme master of the senses is Kṛṣṇa. So we are trying to apply the senses for our personal service. This is called māyā; this is called illusion. The same senses purified, when they'll be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection. So we are not going to stop the activities of the senses, but senses are being purified for being engaged in the service of the Lord. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. So any question? Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, how was it that Lord Jesus was called a son of God? If Kṛṣṇa is usually the son, how come Jesus was the son?



*Prabhupāda: Not usually. Kṛṣṇa is father, that I told you. But He becomes son out of His love. Kṛṣṇa is father. Kṛṣṇa's position is father, but He's simply father. So he voluntarily becomes a son also sometimes to taste how to become a son. Son is not His constitutional position. Father is His constitutional position. But He voluntarily accepts to become a son. But who is going to be His father? He is the original father. He is father of everyone. Ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā. In the Bhagavad-gītā says there, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. "There are millions, 8,400,000 species of life, and I am the father of all these living entities." So who is going to be His father? Nobody is father, but a devotee, when likes, "My dear Lord, I want a son like You," so Kṛṣṇa accepts, "Where is another son like Me? I'll become your son." That's all. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. In their previous life they underwent severe austerities. They were married couples, but they had no sex. They were determined that "Unless we get the Lord as our son, we are not having any son." So they went on for many years, many thousands years' austerity. Then the Lord appeared: "What do you want?" "Sir, I want a son like You." "Where can I get another son like Me? I'll become your son." So Kṛṣṇa, or the Lord, is father of everyone, but He voluntarily accepts to become a son to His devotee. Otherwise His position is always father. Yes.



*Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, I read in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Volume Three, that when one becomes a liberated soul, he attains perfect freedom, and even sometimes that freedom is on the same level as Kṛṣṇa or even more than Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Madhudviṣa: Can you explain that?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this Vasudeva, he's more than Kṛṣṇa. Yaśodā, you have seen the picture? Yaśodā is binding Kṛṣṇa.



Madhudviṣa: Oh, the little baby. Yes.



Prabhupāda: Yes, He has become... The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is, I mean to say, afraid, who is fearful by everyone, Yaśodā..., and Kṛṣṇa has become fearful to Yaśodā: "My dear mother, kindly do not bind Me. I shall obey your orders." So Yaśodā has become more than God, more than Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they want to be one with Kṛṣṇa or one with Lord, but our philosophy is to become more than Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) Why one with Kṛṣṇa? More than Kṛṣṇa. And actually He accepts. He makes His devotee more than Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa took the part of a driver, and he was the hero of the fight. Actually, Kṛṣṇa was the hero, but He gave position to His devotee: "You become the hero, I shall become your charioteer." That's all. Don't you see how Arjuna has become more than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you are hesitating to fight, but you know that all these person who have assembled in this battlefield, they are not going back. They are already killed. That is My plan. You simply take the credit that you have killed them. That's all." (laughter) That He wants. Just like a father wants a son to see him more than himself. If a father is an M.A., he wants to see his son M.A., Ph.D., or something more. He's satisfied. He'll not tolerate anybody to become more than him, but he'll tolerate if his son becomes more than him. I'm giving you a crude example. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, or the Lord, wants to see His devotee more than Himself. That is His pleasure. He takes pleasure in that. So to become a devotee is not ordinary thing. You see. He has got the chance to become more than God. Why equal with God, one with God? No. More than God. Yes. That is our philosophy. Yes.



*Jaya*-gopāla: What is the relationship of the surabhī cow with Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: They are also... These cows are also devotees, and Kṛṣṇa is fond of keeping cows, taking care of them. The same love affairs, exchange of love. That's all.



*Jaya*-gopāla: Which...



*Prabhupāda: Dāsya*-rasa. Dāsya-rasa, servitude. There are different rasas, mellows of relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Śānta, dāsya... Just like Vṛndāvana-bhūmi or the trees, the plants, they are serving Kṛṣṇa silently. And the cows and servants, they are offering superior service. The friends, they are offering service as friend. The gopīs, they are... Gopīs or the motherly gopīs, just like Yaśodā and ladies, offer their, loving Kṛṣṇa as son, and the younger girls, they're loving Kṛṣṇa as husband, as lover. So in this way in Vṛndāvana there are different transcendental mellows of loving affairs. So the cows are on the śānta, dāsya-rasa, giving service, just like master and servant. They are situated in this transcendental humor. But they're all one with Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is inferior than Kṛṣṇa, but the relationship is exchange of loving service. That's all.



Nandarāṇī: Is our rasa with Kṛṣṇa already established? I mean, is it eternal? Or do we, can we attain...



*Prabhupāda: No. It is already established. You have got eternal relationship. When you become liberated, you realize that your relationship is with Kṛṣṇa like this. You'll develop that taste, whether in śānta*-rasa or dāsya-rasa or mādhurya-rasa or vātsalya-rasa. But that is not to be imitated at the present moment. When we are actually liberated. To come to that stage, the routine work, regulative work, should be followed: chanting, hearing, worshiping, following the regulative principles. In this way, gradually, as we are purified, we come to the pure consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then at once we understand, "My relationship with Kṛṣṇa is like this." And you are transferred to the Kṛṣṇaloka in that humor.



Dayānanda: We could also have a passive relationship with Kṛṣṇa, like a tree?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be revealed, how we are related with Kṛṣṇa. Every relationship is as good as the other. Just like in this material world, everyone's position, he thinks it is very nice. Similarly, in the spiritual, what to speak, they are all equal, but still, one is apprec..., one's aptitude is that "I want to love Kṛṣṇa in this way." Yes. So he's there in that way. There must be variety. If there is rasa*-līlā, there must be nice trees, nice field, nice cows, nice Yamunā river. Otherwise how it is, simply if the gopīs and Kṛṣṇas are there, if the other things are not there? The background must be there. So everything is spiritual. Background is also spiritual. That is creation of Kṛṣṇa. Eko bahu-śyāma. Just like a painter paints a picture, he makes a nice background. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa wants to enjoy, so He has created us in different varieties to supply His pleasure potency. You see. Eko bahu-śyāma. This Vedic literature says that alone He has many. Why? Just to enjoy. Why? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). He's by nature joyful, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So ānanda does not mean that one. No. Variety. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So that variety, they're all spiritual. Just like the same example: you paint a picture with the same brush and color, but as soon as you make it variety, variegated, it becomes very enjoyable. So we don't say that the varieties created by God is false. No. It is real. How can I say it is false? This flower, it is designed by God so nicely, it is colored so nicely. It has got its use. There is variety. Even there is greenness... There is so many things varieties. There is color display, sometimes a dark red, sometimes it is light red. So nicely created by Kṛṣṇa, and I shall say it is false? Why it is false? It is Kṛṣṇa's creation. Let me take it and offer it to Kṛṣṇa. This is called bhakti. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I don't enjoy it; it is Kṛṣṇa's creation. It must be offered to Kṛṣṇa. And after offering to Kṛṣṇa, you'll enjoy. After offering nice prasāda, Kṛṣṇa is full, Kṛṣṇa is not eating. You'll enjoy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't reject anything. This tape recorder we don't reject. We don't say, "Oh, it is material. We shall not touch." Bring any scientific invention, we shall engage in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. (laughter) We don't say it is false. Why? You have applied your brain, you applied your energy to invent such nice machine. Let it be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Your life will be successful. That's all. The flower from... The tree from which this flower is grown, if this flower is offered to Kṛṣṇa, his life is successful. So it is so nice program, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All round successful. There is no comparison with this program, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There cannot be any comparison, neither any rivalry with this conception of philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So try to understand, preach it nicely, and be happy, and let them become happy. So you want to chant something or no?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the neighbors, ah...



Prabhupāda: All right. That's all right. We have chanted. Now we can distribute prasāda. You distribute. I want to go to the bathroom. [break] "Oh, I don't like this. He may come back." He must be seen as beloved child. First of all he gave him work just like ordinary laborer. He became sick. He's also tasting. That is nice. So tomorrow we must find out some store. (Prabhupāda eats)



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? I spoke to Puruṣottama. He is coming here.



Prabhupāda: Coming?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That's nice.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Brahmānanda said, "Do you know what you are doing to me, Tamāla? Now I have to do all the work here." So he said, "But it's all right." (Prabhupāda laughs) Number*-one man.



Prabhupāda: So you may send somebody to help him.



Nandarāṇī: Who is coming? (pause)



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Puruṣottama. He said it was all right because Puruṣottama can still get a lot of advertisements for Back to Godhead in Los Angeles area.



Prabhupāda: Oh, you can.



Devotee: When's he coming?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm not sure. Maybe next week. (end)





681114LE.LA

*Lecture Excerpt on Twenty*-four Elements

-

Los Angeles, November 14, 1968



*Prabhupāda: So what are these twenty*-four elements? Can anyone say? If somebody asks you, "What are these twenty-four elements?" Yes? Go on, tell.



Viṣṇujana: I think I am only giving the gross ones: earth, air, fire, water, ether and intelligence, mind, intelligence and ego.



Prabhupāda: Eight, it comes to eight. Then?



Viṣṇujana: Then there's the senses, which are...



*Prabhupāda: Ten. Ten knowledge-acquiring, five, and working senses, five. Ten. So eight, ten-eighteen. Then sense objects. Just like I have got eye, but I have to see something, dṛśya. So there are five sense objects. Eighteen and five-twenty-three. And mahat-tattva, the original stock of all material... In this way, they are called twenty-four elements. So this whole creation, whatever material creation we have got, they are made of these twenty-four el... Just like colors. Varieties of color means three colors: yellow, red and blue. Those who are expert in color mixing, they'll mix these three colors into eighty*-one colors. Three into three equals nine; *nine into nine equals eighty one. So expert colorists, they can display these three colors into eighty-one. Similarly, the material nature, of course, this is one, one energy, but within this energy there are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. By interaction of these three qualities, the manaḥ, buddhi, ahaṅkāra-the subtle elements*-are manufactured, and then from the subtle elements, the grosser elements are manufactured. Then their objectives. In this way, the creation is going on. But it requires so much time to create such huge cosmic manifestation, but God is so perfect, as soon as He desires, He says, "Let there be creation." Immediately the creation. That is God.



Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



681115LE.LA

Class in Los Angeles

-

Los Angeles, November 15, 1968



Dayānanda: Prabhupāda? That was the realtor on the phone. He said he'll have the lease ready Monday.



Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.



Baby: Jaya. (cries)



Mother: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Very nice. The first vibration is jaya. (laughs) (aside:) Your article is out. You have seen it?



Upendra: No, I have not seen it. I heard that it is out.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Very nice article you have... You are feeling all right?



Upendra: Oh, yes.



*Prabhupāda: Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is simply full of bliss. Nobody should become morose. If he's feeling morose, then it is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the sign.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a stage after liberation. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ means "I am now free from all material anxieties." That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Just like a person suffering prison life for years together, and if he is given freedom, "Now you are free," how much delight he'll feel. "Oh, now I am free." You see? So that is the stage of brahma-bhūtaḥ. Prasannātmā, joyful, immediately. And what is the nature of joyfulness? Na śocati. Even in the great loss, there is no lamentation. And big profit, there is no jubilation, or there is no hankering. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Equipoised.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu...

[Bg. 18.54]



*In that stage one can see all living entities on the same understanding of spiritual identity. In another place Bhagavad*-gītā says, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. When a man is learned he sees everyone on the same level of spiritual understanding. So when one has reached this stage, then actually Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.



*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that it is activities of liberated stage. Everyone is trying to get liberation from these material pangs, every philosophy. Buddha philosophy, they are also trying*-nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means extinguish this. So they want to make void. All these material varieties, they want to make it zero. That is Buddha philosophy. Māyāvāda philosophy is more or less like that. It is a second edition of Buddha philosophy. Zero, but that zero is without life. Māyāvāda philosophy says, "Yes, that zero, but with life." That is the mistake. If there is life, then there must be varieties. Life without variety is not possible. Dead body without variety, not life without variety. So these are the defects of all other philosophies. They're not defects, but the class of people amongst whom the philosophy was taught, they could not understand more than that. That's all. Just like a patient too much disturbed, he wants some medicine from the physician: "Please stop my disturbance. Kill me. Kill me." Sometimes they say like that: "Give me some poison, kill me. I cannot tolerate." A physician says, "Yes, there is no need of killing. I shall give you good, healthy life." He's so much impatient, "No. I cannot tolerate. Please kill me." So this Buddha philosophy, Māyāvāda philosophy is like that. Kill him "Kill me, please. Make me zero, void." So much frustration. So much disturbance that they want to make it zero. But our philosophy is life, real life.

*But it is difficult to understand this philosophy, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. Why it is difficult? That is explained, gṛha*-vratānām. Gṛha-vratānām. Gṛha means "house." So vrata means "vow." Just like everyone, common man, anywhere, they are interested with these bodily comforts, nice apartment, nice country, nice state, confident, nice bank balance. These things are their aspiration, no more. Nothing more. First of all this body, gṛha. Gṛha means "house, living place." So I am the soul, I am living, and this body is my first living place. This is also gṛha. I am not this body. Just like I am living in this apartment, I am not this apartment. Similarly, I am living in this body, but I am not this body. This is the beginning of spiritual education. Unless one does not understand that "I am not this body; *I am living in this body," there is no question of spiritual education. He does not know what is spiritual and material. So this misunderstanding, that "I am this body. I belong to this apartment, I belong to this society, I belong to this country, I belong to this nation, I belong to this world, I belong to this universe"-you can expand*-that is all misunderstanding. All misunderstanding. If you say, "Oh, now I am not..." Just like big leaders, they say that "My life is for the nation." And some ordinary common man says, "Oh, my life is for my family." And a less important person, just like childlike, he is or she is for this body. That's all. So this expansion from bodily concept of life to family life, or to, from family to community life, from community to society life, or national life, or universal brotherhood life, that is very much appreciated. "Oh, this man is after universal brotherhood." These are all bogus. You see? But this is a misconception. You can expand. However you may expand, the defect will be there. Just like the so-called nationalist or humanitarist or universalist, they are packed up within the boundary of the human being. They have no expansions toward other living entities. Their national conception, that the human body should be given protection but animal body no protection... Why? They are also nationals. But they have no such idea because all these ideas are defective. There is shortcut.

*So only Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the perfect... So Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ... matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām. So actually gṛha means this material confinement. Gṛha, real gṛha, means one is bound up within some limited space. So gṛha means to keep oneself within some boundary. So Bhāgavata says so long one is interested to keep himself within the boundary of some limited area, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe. He cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. He's limited within certain boundary. So Bhāgavata says Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for persons who are limited by certain boundary, including universal concept of life. That is also boundary. And matir na kṛṣṇe svataḥ. Svataḥ means by his personal mental speculation. Just like many philosophers are thinking to reach the Absolute Truth beyond this limitation. That is called svataḥ, by personal speculation. Svataḥ, parataḥ. Parataḥ means from authorities. From a spiritual master, from scriptures, from authoritative books, authoritative source of knowledge, that is called parataḥ. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho. Mitho means by great assembly. Just like the United Nation is trying to solve the problem for the last many years, twenty to twenty-five years, all the nations. This is called mithaḥ, assembly. Mithaḥ means assembly. So why it is not possible? Because they are limited. Their real concept is that "I am this body, I am this nation, I am this this, I am this, I am that." That's all. The basic principle is wrong. Therefore it is not possible to make a solution of the problems, either by personal speculation or by receiving knowledge. Just like our principle is to receive knowledge from the spiritual master. But if I keep myself within this boundary... Suppose if somebody thinks that "I am American," then naturally he'll be inclined, "Oh, why shall I be inclined to hear from a spiritual master who is Indian, who is Hindu?" So he'll not be able to capture parataḥ. Similarly, if you go to the assembly like United Nation or Commonwealth conference, like that, but if you keep yourself that "I am this, I am this, I am this," there is no possibility; *therefore they are failing. The basic principle is wrong. Gṛha*-vrata. The concept of life is wrong. Gṛha-vratānām. And why they want to be limited by this poor concept of life? This is called material existence. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram [SB 7.5.30]. This limited concept of life is due to unbridled sense. This limited concept of life they want to keep because they want to satisfy their senses. I am going to the assembly, United Nation, but I am keeping myself as American or as German, as Russian, or Indian, that "My nation shall be happy in this way." Indian is thinking in that way, American is thinking that way, Russian is thinking in another way, another way. They are keeping themself in that limited area, and what benefit they will derive simply by wasting time in the assembly and talking? This is called gṛha-vratānām.

*So one has to go outside this limited area. That is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage. Then they'll have real Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato. So why I want that I shall be happy in this way? I make my own plan: "My nation will be happy in this way." This is called saṁsāra, adānta-gobhir, because I want to satisfy my senses. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. And the position is punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Punaḥ punaś carvita-car..., carvita-carvaṇa means chewing the chewed. Something is chewed and thrown away in the street, and if somebody comes and chews again that thrown away article, he cannot get any juice out of it. Similarly, we are making plan, but because it is on the platform of sense gratification, the whole thing is coming to the four principles of animal life-eating, sleeping, mating, defending-that's all. That means in a circle, coming to the same animal platform. The distinction between animal and man is that... Man and animal, they have got common platform of these four principles of life: eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. The only extra qualification of man is that he can come to understand what is Kṛṣṇa and what is God. That is his special qualification. But because they are trying to keep themselves within the limit of sense gratification, they're coming again and again to that same platform, eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this is the secret how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. We should not limit ourself under certain area. And how it is possible? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, or God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So if we keep ourself within some limit, then it will be not possible to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha... These are verses... Bhāgavata verses can be explained for so many days. They are so important. Yes. Another verse is, why they are keeping themself within the limit of this sense gratificatory platform? That is answered in Bhāgavata: na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. This is very important. These foolish persons, they do not know what is the ultimate goal of their life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that their self-interest... Everyone is self-interest(ed). Everyone is eager to look after his self-interest, but they do not know what is the self-interest. Durāśayā. Because they do not know, therefore, out of ulterior motive, they are thinking that "Satisfaction in the material way of life will give me ultimate pleasure or ultimate satisfaction. That is my ultimate goal." Therefore the scientist, the politician, everyone is trying, making their own plan. And what is that plan? By manipulating this external energy, dura, bahir-artha, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Now, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are not interested in this thing. Had I been an expert in certain technology, electronics, improvement in electronics, then thousands of students and people would come and hear me. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Because a person is dealing with the ingredients of the external energy, people are thinking, "This technological knowledge will give me happiness." Durāśayā. That is durāśayā. That is useless hope. Bhāgavata says this kind of hope, that this kind of material advancement, this kind of material adjustment... After all, it is material. That will not give you happiness. But they are thinking like that. They are hoping like that. Durāśayā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]. Andhā. This means that we are blind, we do not know what is the goal of our life. (child making noise) (aside:) Stop. We do not know what is the goal of our life, and the leaders, they also do not know what is the goal of our life. Our Back to Godhead editorial, they have written very nicely that with the change of some politician we are thinking that something new will be done and we shall be happy. Just like there is advertisement, "America Needs Nixon Now." (laughter) People are thinking, "Now, instead of Johnson, when Mr. Nixon will be President, we shall be happy." But they do not know from which stock either this Mr. Johnson or Nixon is coming. The source of supply is the same. If the source of supply is the same, then what is there, replacing Mr. Johnson by Nixon or Nixon by Johnson? The leader(s) themselves, they are blind. They do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. Therefore our position is that we are blind and our leaders are blind, so what will be the result? If a blind man leads other hundred men to cross over the street, certainly there will be some accident because all of them are blind men. If one man is with eyes, open eyes, he can lead hundreds and thousands of men behind him. But if the leader and the led, both of them are blind, then the result will be that all of them will fall into the ditch. So, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They're promising, "My dear citizens, my dear countrymen, if you give me vote, because the country needs me at the present moment, then I shall give you all comforts, all solutions." But he is īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. By the laws of God, by the laws of nature, he is tightly packed up. You see? If your hands are tightly knotted, if your legs are tightly, then how you can work? So these leaders, they do not know that they are under the control of the stringent laws of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Suppose if there is a heavy earthquake. Suppose the Atlantic Ocean... And there is some suggestion like that, some years they will mix together, by the scientists. Suppose the Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Ocean mix together. Then how you can check? Your hands and legs are tightly packed up. You cannot check the laws of nature. Therefore blind leaders who are so tightly packed up by the laws of nature, how they can lead? They cannot lead. They cannot lead to the goal of life. The goal of life is God or Kṛṣṇa, but they are enamored by the glimmering of, the glittering of this material nature. So they cannot lead. Then how, what is the solution? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible to cultivate by speculation, by assembly meeting, or by knowledge derived from higher authoritative sources, the leaders are misleading, then how it is to be attained? How the goal of life can be attained?

*Then that is suggested by Prahlāda Mahārāja: naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim [SB 7.5.32]. One cannot become Kṛṣṇa consciousness..., one cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious, naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim anartha, anarthāpagamo yad-arthaḥ. Spṛśaty anarthāpagamo yad-arthaḥ. As soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious or one becomes in touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spṛśaty, anartha, immediately he becomes delivered from all these misgivings of material existence. That is the test. How one is in contact with Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be tested-how he is freed from all misgivings. Just like for example*-not very gigantic example; *very small*-our students, as soon as they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, initiated, immediately so many misgivings they give up. So many. The basic principles of misgiving, what is that? No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. It is very difficult for persons, especially in the Western countries, to give up all these habits. They are so much entangled. Even Lord Ronaldsay said, Marquis of Zetland... One of my Godbrothers, some years ago, in 1935 he went to London, and Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland, Lord Ronaldsay... He was a Scotsman. I don't think whether he is living, but he was very interested in Indian philosophy. He was once governor of Bengal. In our childhood we saw him. He came to our college. So he inquired from this preacher, my Godbrother, that Bannerji, he was Mr. Bannerji, Goswami Bannerji: "Bannerji, can you make us brāhmaṇa?" Bannerji said, "Why not? Yes, we can make you brāhmaṇa. Then you have to follow the rules, these four principles of rules. Then you can become a brāhmaṇa." He said, "Oh, it is impossible." He said. You see? Such a big personality, he is interested in philosophy, he holds some position, responsible man, he flatly denied, "Oh, it is not possible to give up these habits." But our student, hundreds of students who are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are giving up very easily. They don't feel any inconvenience. This is spṛśaty anarthāpagamo yad-arthaḥ. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the first test is that in the beginning, from the very beginning, all misgivings will go on. Will go on. Our student can twenty-four hours sit down before a Deity and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bring any student of any yoga society, let him sit down for five hours. He'll fail. They are so restless. Simply official fifteen minutes, half an hour, by closing the eyes and murmuring something, meditation. These boys are twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. That is the test. All these boys, any man can come and ask them how they are feeling. Unless they feel some spiritual satisfaction, how they can give up everything and be engaged in this Kṛṣṇa conscious chanting? Therefore this is the test. Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim. Matis tāvad. Matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim. Urukramāṅghrim. Urukrama, Kṛṣṇa's another name is Urukrama. Urukrama means... Uru means very difficult, and krama means steps. Just like Kṛṣṇa in the Vāmana*-avatāra, He forwarded His steps up to the sky. His name is therefore Urukrama. So one cannot fix up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa unless mahīyasāṁ pāda-rajo-'bhiṣekaṁ niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yāvat. This is not possible so long he has not the opportunity of touching the dust of the lotus feet of a personality who is niṣkiñcana, who has no material hankerings; *mahīyasām, and life is dedicated only for Kṛṣṇa. As soon as one comes in touch with such personality, by his grace, this thing, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be achieved. Not by any other method. Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim [SB 7.5.32]. The test will be spṛśaty anarthāpagamo yad*-arthaḥ mahīyasāṁ pādo-rajo-'bhiṣekaṁ niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yāvat. This is the test, and this is the way to approach a bona fide person and receive this Kṛṣṇa consciousness from him, by his mercy, by his grace. But as soon as one receives, immediately his liberation from material entanglement begins. Immediately, immediately. And then as he makes further progress, progress, progress, his life becomes sublime. Now one thing... One may question, suppose one has taken up to Kṛṣṇa consciousness out of sentiment, but he could not finish it. What is the result? That is also said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer [SB 1.5.17]. Sva-dharmam. Sva-dharma means everyone has got some specific duty, occupation. Everyone. So if somebody gives up his specific duty in which he's engaged, tyaktvā sva-dharmam... Just like many boys and girls, they come here. They were engaged in something else, but all of a sudden they give up and they join this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So for them, Bhāgavata says, tyaktvā sva-dharmam... Sva means his own occupation, dharma. Now here the dharma is not religion. Occupational duty. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer. Suppose after hearing some lectures of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he settles, "Now I shall begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness," and gives up his prescribed duties or occupational duty. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17]. Bhajann. Now he begins chanting or regulative principles, but all of a sudden, he falls down. He falls down. He could not prosecute. By some reason or by some circumstances, he falls down. So Bhāgavata says, "What is the wrong with him even if he falls down?" Just see. Even if he falls down due to immature development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, still, he's not loser. And Bhāgavata says, ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. And what profit will he get, one who is very steadily engaged in his occupational duty? He's simply a loser because he does not know what is the aim of his life. But here, a person who comes in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even for a few days if he is with us, he gets the contamination of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that in his next life he'll begin again, again, again. So he's not loser. One injection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will make him some day perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and he's sure to go back to Godhead, back to home. So try to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And this is your sādhana, execution of austerity, penance. Because you have to meet so many opposing elements. You have to fight with them. That is tapasya. You are tolerating so much insults, so much botheration, and so much inconveniences, personal discomfort, everything sacrificed, money-but it will not go in vain. Rest assured. It will not go in vain. Kṛṣṇa will, I mean to say, reward you sufficiently. You go on executing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Haribol. (offer obeisances)



Prabhupāda: So any question?



*Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, could you tell us something about Kṛṣṇa's rasa*-līlā?



*Prabhupāda: (pause) Kṛṣṇa's rasa*-līlā should not be discussed in public meeting. It is most confidential. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu never discussed. He discussed Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, līlā with gopīs, with His confidential, very confidential circle. Or those who are... Lord Caitanya had many thousands of followers, and... He was not discussing even within these five persons, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi, Nityānanda, Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and Himself, these five persons. So when He was at Navadvīpa, He was not discussing even with them, what to speak of others. He set up this example so that in future people may be very cautious. Because unless one understands what is Kṛṣṇa, how he can understand Kṛṣṇa's pastime? So this discussion of rasa-līlā is the summit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not ordinary thing. They're purely spiritual. There is nothing material. But because we are not completely free from material concept of life, we may think that Kṛṣṇa's līlā is something like this material. So that is offense. But that is the ultimate goal, to understand Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. But you have to wait for relishing that Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā, to become more perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anarthāpagamam. Anartha means when one is freed from all anarthas. But it is so nice, even those who are with anartha, misgivings, if they are devotee, if they have got full surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, so they also will derive benefit. Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā means that Kṛṣṇa was adopted or foster child. Is that foster child? Yes. So, of Nanda Mahārāja. His father exchanged. His father Vasudeva wanted to save Kṛṣṇa, and he brought from Mathurā to Vṛndāvana, Gokula. And Nanda Mahārāja had a daughter. So he placed Kṛṣṇa on the lap of Yaśodā and took away the daughter, and this daughter was given to Kaṁsa for killing. Just see, there is selfishness. He wanted to save his own son and wanted to kill Yaśodā's daughter. (chuckling) You see? So this is not selfishness; therefore we shall misunderstand. That daughter was not ordinary child, she was the material energy herself, Durgā. So when Kaṁsa took that child by the leg and wanted to, what is called? Slash? Smash, yes. Smash on the stone, the daughter slipped from his hand and appeared as Durgā, that "You fool, you want to kill me. The boy, the child who will kill you, is already born. Don't try for killing me. He's already born."



*So Kṛṣṇa, up to sixteen years, He was in Vṛndāvana. Naturally, there were many children, boys and girls. They played together. So they were very... Kṛṣṇa, everyone loved. Vṛndāvana means simply center figure is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone loves. So some of the girls, they loved Kṛṣṇa, and a girl's loving means she wants Kṛṣṇa as husband. But according to Vedic concept, the girls are married at the age of twelve to sixteen years, and boys are married from twenty to twenty*-five years. So all the girls were married mostly, but Kṛṣṇa was not married. And some of the girls were not married, but all the girls, they were very fond of Kṛṣṇa. So from the childhood they were friends. So Kṛṣṇa used to play His flute, and all the girls would come. So this rasa-līlā was performed on this day, the Kṛṣṇa, in the full moon night, He played the flute, and the girls assembled and there was dance. There is similar dance, just like ball dance in your country. But the specific significance of this dance was that Kṛṣṇa bifurcated Himself in so many boys as many girls there were, and they began to dance in pair. That is sum and substance of rasa-līlā. So if you go to Vṛndāvana and if you like to dance with Kṛṣṇa, the facility is for you. That is the ultimate goal of our life. If you want to love Kṛṣṇa similarly as the gopīs loved, you can have the chance. Or if you want to love Kṛṣṇa as His cowherds boyfriend, that chance is also there. If you want to love Kṛṣṇa as child, that chance is also there. Any capacity you try to love Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. "Anyone who worships Me or loves Me in any way, I am prepared to answer." He can answer... Just like Nṛsiṁhadeva. Because Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to love Kṛṣṇa by becoming enemy, so He also answered as enemy. So there are twelve kinds of reciprocal exchange-seven secondary and five primary. So all these rasas... Rasa means rasa. Rasa means humor. All these humors are present even in this material world in different way, as perverted reflection of the spiritual rasa. Nothing can be new here, but here it is a reflection only. Reality is there. So the five primary principles of loving affairs is there in the Vaikuṇṭha world. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness while we are in this material body, and after giving up this body, we enter into the spiritual realm for factually participating with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So if you want to enter into the rasa-līlā, if you desire like that, so you love Kṛṣṇa in that way, as the gopīs. Then you'll have the same perfection. There is no difficulty. It is not at all difficult. Simply you practice. But you have to forget the rasa-līlā of this material world. (chuckling) Otherwise there world then you play havoc. That risk is there. Yes. "Kṛṣṇa enjoyed with so many girls, so let me also become Kṛṣṇa and enjoy." That is finished everything. (laughter) (pause) (baby laughs) Oh, she is appreciating. (chuckles) Yes. Thank you. Come on. Reach. So we'll have kīrtana or this record or we'll close our meeting?

Dayānanda: Maybe we should have just the recording?



Prabhupāda: All right. You play that record. So on Monday they'll give possession?



Dayānanda: I think so. I don't know. Monday we sign the lease. And one of the options was that we could get possession upon signing the lease. As long as that option goes through... [break]



Govinda dāsī: Everybody wants kīrtana.



Dayānanda: Can it be just sort of a quiet kīrtana, since it's getting a little late?



Prabhupāda: Quiet kīrtana? (laughter) Kīrtana means loud. (laughter) You make it quiet please. This. Have you got that tape?



Govinda dāsī: Yes, I have it, but I have to rewind this one and then rewind the other one, which will take five minutes.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, no, no. Then let us have... Where is mine? So you play quietly. (kīrtana*-Govinda jaya jaya, Prema-dhvanī)



Prabhupāda: What about your siṁhāsana, throne?



Vāmana: It's coming. It's coming. I'm building a small one out of balsawood to show you...



Prabhupāda: All right.



Vāmana: ...and see if I got the proportions right.



Prabhupāda: Your picture? So you lost some money there?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah... Ah...



Prabhupāda: How is that?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, yes. We didn't lose any, but we didn't make any money, Prabhupāda. He charged us for the half a month we had lived there. But I'm still going to tell him that if he doesn't give us more money, I'll call the housing authority. And we have a letter written to the housing authority, and we'll read it to him and tell him that if he doesn't gives us more money we are posting this letter immediately. He is a rascal. (end)





681204LE.LA

Lecture

-

Los Angeles, December 4, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (three times with devotees responding)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*(three times with devotees responding) Thank you very much. So we are worshiper of the original Absolute Personality of Godhead, Govindam. Govindam. Go means senses, go means cow, and go means land. And vindam, vindam means who gives pleasure*-the pleasure potency of all these three things, senses, cows, and the land. The land. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29], in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. The proprietor of all land, the maintainer of all land, to give pleasure to the people of all land, is Govinda, Kṛṣṇa. Govindam. And He is the protector, and pleasing to the cows. You have seen many pictures of Kṛṣṇa, He is loving cow. Why cow is loved by Him? Why not another animal? There are many other animals. Why particularly cow? Because cow protection is the most important business of the human society. In offering obeisances to Kṛṣṇa, it is said, namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca: "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Person, who is the protector of the brāhmaṇas and the cows." Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca jagad-dhitāya. The first qualification is that He protects the brāhmaṇas and the cows. Next, He protects the whole world. Jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇa. And He is Kṛṣṇa, govindāya, this Govinda.



*So the example is set by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that human civilization will advance only on the basis of brahminical culture and cow protection. As soon as there is falldown from brahminical culture, and as soon as there is discrepancy in the protection of cows, there will be no more peace in the world. Therefore He specifically said, go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for the protection of brahminical culture and cows. Then automatically the peace of the world will come, if two things are done. This is Vedic literature. They pick up the essence of the things, and all other things follows. Just like meditation. Meditation means... Not meditation, the yoga system. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Yoga system means to control the senses. This is the primary factor of practicing yoga. Now the senses, we have got five senses acquiring knowledge and five working senses. So of all the senses, the tongue is considered to be the most powerful sense. The Vaiṣṇava, they therefore try to control the tongue. They do not allow the tongue to eat everything and anything. No. Svāmī or gosvāmī means who has control over the senses. Generally, people, they are servant of the senses. When people, when a man becomes, instead of becoming servant of the senses, when he becomes master of the senses, then he is called svāmī. Svāmī is not this dress. This dress is superfluous, just to... As in everywhere there is some uniform dress to understand that "He is, he..." Actually, svāmī means who has control over the senses. And that is brahminical culture. Satya śama dama titikṣa ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Brahman, Brahman means brāhmaṇa, brahminical culture. Truthfulness, cleanliness, and controlling the senses, controlling the mind, and simplicity and tolerance, full of knowledge, practical application in life, faith in God-these qualifications are brahminical culture. Anywhere we practice these qualifications, he'll revive brahminical culture. It is not that in a particular country or particular society or particular class of men they are brāhmaṇas. No. Bhagavad-gītā does not say that. Brahma-karma svabhāva-jam. Svabhāva-jam, natural activities. So truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, and simplicity, and cleanliness, and tolerance, and knowledge, and practical application of knowledge in life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for training brahmacārīs. Brahmacārī means who are being practiced to the brahminical culture. So, there must be a portion of the population well versed in brahminical culture. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasaḥ. Just like in a garden if there is one nice flower plant, rose, with good scent, the whole garden becomes flavored, you see? Scented. Similarly, we do not expect that the whole population of the human society will be taking to this brahminical culture; but even one percent of the whole population accepts this brahminical culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole world will be peaceful. Not even one percent, less than one percent. It is so nice.

*So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific movement. Unless you raise the population from the animal propensities, how you can expect peace? Do you think is there any peace in the dog society, in the cat society? No, it is not possible. You keep some dogs. They meet. As soon as they meet together there will be howling-"gow, gow, gow, gow." So you cannot expect if you create dog society, then you cannot expect. You have to create a portion, a certain percentage of the population, brāhmaṇas. Then there is possibility. Just like in the sky the numerical strength of the stars are greater, but there is one moon. That one moon is sufficient to illuminate the sky. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasaḥ. Millions of millions of stars twinkling, they cannot dissipate the darkness. You see. Only one moon, only one sun. So try to make some percentage of the population actually brāhmaṇa. Go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. And protect the cows. Actually, we are taking so much advantages. So from the cows, the milk. And from the milk we can make hundreds of vitaminous foodstuff, hundreds. They're all palatable. So such a nice animal, faithful, peaceful, and beneficial. After taking milk from it, if we kill, does it look very well? Even after the death, the cows supply the skin for your shoes. It is so beneficial. You see. Even after death. While living, he gives you nice milk. You cannot reject milk from the human society. As soon as there is a child born, milk immediately required. Old man, milk is life. Diseased person, milk is life. Invalid, milk is life. So therefore Kṛṣṇa is teaching by His practical demonstration how He loves this innocent animal, cow. So human society should develop brahminical culture on the basis of protecting cows. The brāhmaṇa cannot take any other food except it is made of milk preparation. That develops the finer tissues of the brain. You can understand in subtle matters, in philosophy, in spiritual science. Just like in a scientific college, not ordinary man can understand the scientific intricacies. They require some preliminary qualification to enter into the scientific college. They require some preliminary qualification to enter into the law college, in the postgraduate classes. Similarly, to understand the subtle or finer implications of spiritual science, one has to become brāhmaṇa. Without becoming brāhmaṇa it is not possible.

*Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. There are four classes of men created by God: cātur-varṇyaṁ. How they are divided? How the classification is made? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: by classification of quality and work. Not by birth. In India, of course, this classification of guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ was originally planned from the Vedic age. But later on, a class of men, without any qualification, without any practical work, they claimed that "I belong to such and such class." Therefore India's falldown was inevitable. So Bhagavad-gītā says, "Not like that." Bhagavad-gītā says that these classes of men, cātur-varṇyaṁ-the brahminical class, the kṣatriya class, the vaiśya class, and the śūdra class*-is everywhere. Not only in India, but also throughout the whole universe, in every country, in every nation, in every society, there must be some people who have brahminical tendency. Just like from your country, we have picked up some boys and girls who are inclined to adopt this way of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply picking up where there are brahminical class of boys, girls, men. Not that we are taking account, "Oh, who is your father? Is your father a brāhmaṇa?" No. We don't take account. His father may be anything; *it doesn't matter. But if he has got tendency to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we immediately welcome: "Come on." And we teach him this brahminical qualification*-to become brahmacārī, not to indulge in illicit sex life, don't take nonvegetarian diet. We recommend not exactly nonvegetarian diet. We are vegetarian diet, we restrict from nonvegetarian diet, but we recommend Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We have no quarrel with the nonvegetarians, because vegetable also has got life. The plants, the grass, the trees, the fruits, the flowers, they have also life. They are not dead. So simply becoming vegetarian is no great qualification. Somebody is taking meat and somebody is taking vegetable, it does not make any difference. But we are taking vegetables not as vegetarian. We are taking as Kṛṣṇa prasādam, remnants of foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that,

patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

*tad ahaṁ bhakty*-upahṛtam

aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ

[Bg. 9.26]



*Kṛṣṇa said that "If somebody offers Me some foodstuff prepared from vegetables and fruits and grains"*-grains are also fruits-"so with love and devotion, then I eat." Therefore we offer these things to Kṛṣṇa. Just like here, we have offered fruits. Not that because we are vegetarian, but Kṛṣṇa wants this. Just like if you invite some of your friend, you ask him, "My dear friend, what do you like to eat?" So if he says, "I like this," so you immediately supply. This is the sign of love. Similarly, because Kṛṣṇa says, "If somebody offers Me fruits, flowers, grains, milk, with devotion and love, I will eat," so we are pledged to Kṛṣṇa, I offer these things to Kṛṣṇa, and we eat. That is our process. We have no quarrel with nonvegetarian or vegetarian. No. Because vegetable has also got life. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is also stated that yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. You have to eat after offering sacrifice. Sacrifice means to worship the Supreme Lord. That is called sacrifice. So if anyone eats the remnants of sacrificial foodstuff, then he is freed from all kinds of sins.



*The purport is that those who are vegetarian, they are thinking that "We are better than the nonvegetarian." But it is not the fact. Either you eat vegetables or nonvegetable, you are liable to be punished because you are accepting something without offering to the supplier. That is the law. We must acknowledge at least that "This foodstuff is supplied by the Supreme Lord, and we are obliged to Him." In Christian Bible also, they pray, "O God, give us our daily bread." So one should accept that it is supplied by God. So if one does not even accept this obligation, then he is sinful, certainly. So, yajñarthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva*-kilbiṣaiḥ. One who offers sacrifice and then he takes foodstuff, then he becomes freed from the sinful activities. In the eating there is sinful activity also. But bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt: [Bg. 3.13] anyone who is simply cooking for himself, he is simply eating sins. These are the statements of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is our duty to offer foodstuff to the Lord and then take it: "My Lord, You have supplied so nice foodstuff for my maintaining my life, so You first of all taste it, and then I shall eat it." It is very nice. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is not going to take your foodstuff. But simply if you think like that, then you become freed from the implication of sinful activities.

*We are in such a position that in every step there is sinful activity, every step. This world is so made. Just like nonviolence. Nonviolence, the Buddhist philosophy, the Jain philosophy, they advocate nonviolence. But how one can be nonviolent? We are walking on the street, there are so many ants and small germs, they are being killed. We are breathing, so many animals are being killed. We are drinking water, so many animals are being killed. How it is possible to become nonviolence? It is not possible. Therefore in every step we have to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Then there is indemnity from the sinful activities. That is recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that yajñarthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. Unless you act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, or as ordered by Kṛṣṇa, or God, then you become bound up by the reaction.

yajñarthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra

*loko 'yaṁ karma*-bandhanaḥ

*tad*-arthaṁ karma kaunteya

*mukta*-saṅgaḥ samācara

[Bg. 3.9]



*"Therefore, My dear Arjuna," Kṛṣṇa instructing Arjuna, that "you simply act for Kṛṣṇa, or God," tad*-artham, "not for any other purpose." Don't create your action. Simply act according to the direction of the Lord. Mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara. Then you will be freed from the reaction of your act. There are many examples. Just like a soldier: when he is killing in the battlefield on the higher authorities of government and commander-in-chief, he is not liable for killing. He is, rather, rewarded. The same man, if he kills on his own account somebody, he is hanged. Immediately he becomes liable to the law.



*Therefore the whole life should be so modeled that we shall simply act for God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities are called bhakti, devotional service. And how they are discharged, that is very nicely explained in many Vedic literatures, Bhagavad*-gītā also. Especially in Nārada-pañcarātra it is stated,

*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



*One has to become freed from all designations. Freed from all designation. What is the designation? "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." These are all designations. Actually, I am spirit soul. I have got this designation on account of my accepting this material body, but I am not this body. This is the first instruction in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Spiritual instruction begins from this platform, that "I am not this body." Because bodily concept of life is animal life. The dog thinks that "I am this body"; the cat thinks, "I am this body." But if a human being thinks that "I am this body," then what is the difference between cats and dogs? Human being must try to understand, "What I am?" This is called knowledge. And when he comes to the understanding ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul, oh, I am spirit soul..." Just like Socrates, he realized. When he was asked by the judge, "Mr. Socrates, how you want to be entombed?" he answered, "First of all, capture me; then you entomb me. You are seeing my body. You have no vision that I am soul." This is right vision.



*Bhagavad*-gītā says, therefore, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Paṇḍitāḥ means one who is learned. He sees everything equally, because he does not see the body. He sees the spirit soul. He sees the spirit soul, both in human being... The different kinds of human being... Somebody may be very high, or somebody may be very, very low, or animal, or... But paṇḍitāḥ, one who is learned, he sees the spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. He knows that this is only dress. Suppose a gentleman has come in this meeting. If he is not properly dressed, that does not mean he should be hated. Similarly, one who is paṇḍita, learned, he does not discriminate between man and animal because they have got different dress. No. The animal life and human life, so far maintenance of the body is concerned, it is equal. The animal eats, the man eats. The animal sleeps, the man sleeps. The animal mates, the man also mates. The quality or degree of mating or eating may be different, but the eating is there, sleeping is there, mating is there, and defending is there. But what is the difference between man and animal? Man knows, at least, he should try to know, "What I am? What is God? What is this world? What is our interrelation?" This is man's business. This is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the Vedānta-sūtra, the first sūtra, aphorism, is atha ataḥ brahma-jijñāsā: "This human form of life is meant for inquiry about the spirit, Supreme Spirit, Brahman." That is the beginning of spiritual education.



*So spiritual education*-first to understand "What I am," then "What is God," "What is this world." "What is our interrelation," then "What is God's position," "What is my position," "How I shall deal with God"-these things are spiritual education, and human life is meant for that purpose. The nature gives chance to the living entity, this developed consciousness of human being, in order to understand these things. And if he is fortunate enough to understand that he is spirit soul, he is Brahman, then the Bhagavad-gītā gives definition of such man that brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: [Bg. 18.54] as soon as he comes to the understanding of spiritual platform, then he becomes joyful, immediately-freed from all anxieties. Joyfulness means freed from all anxiety. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more any hankering and no more lamentation. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu... And he sees everyone on the spiritual platform, equally. And then the life of devotion, service to the Lord, begins.

*So this is the process. This is the process of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the process is recommended that one should become freed from the designation. Because designation, accepting the designation, means ignorance. That is ignorance. So we have to transcend this position of designation. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. And by reviving our lost relationship with the Supreme Lord, we become cleansed. That is brahminical stage. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmalam means cleansed, and hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam. When your consciousness is cleansed, then you can only render service to the Lord. Otherwise not. So long our consciousness is not clean, consciousness is polluted, there is no possibility of rendering service to the Lord. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam. Hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka means senses purified by being freed from designation. When it is purified in connection with activities of Kṛṣṇa, or God, then he can render service to the Lord, Hṛṣīkeṇa. That is called bhakti. This is bhakti. Bhakti is nothing artificial. It is the activity of healthy stage. Just like a man, when he is diseased, his activities are differing from the man who is cured and healthy. To become healthy does not mean to kill the patient. To kill..., not to kill him, but to cure him from the disease, that is real treatment. The whole treatment of the human society should be like that: to cure him from the disease of forgetfulness his relationship with God. Then when he is cured, when he is in healthy state, then there will be no more trouble in the world. Peace and prosperity can be established when people are no more in the designated stage, when he is free. So it is not expected, however, that cent percent population of the world will be such free from all contamination. But even a certain percentage only, even most insignificant, one percent or less than that, millions in one, then the face of the world will change.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just trying to turn the face of the people towards the Supreme Lord and by practical application of the knowledge in life, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa... This is the process. So it is not sectarian process. Just like students can be picked up from any society, similarly, person inclined to understand the science of God can be picked up from any society. There is no question of designation. It is not that it is meant for the Hindu or meant for the Christian, meant for the Buddhist. Anyone who is interested in the science of God, they are welcome in this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question?

Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, why did Lord Jesus Christ eat meat?



*Prabhupāda: That was circumstantial because we have to take into consideration of the situation of the country and the people. Where there is no other food, one must live. Then meat*-eating is not bad in that case. Because survival is required. But when there are substitutes... Everyone is eating another life. That is the law of nature. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that sahastānām ahastāni. The animals, animal who has got hands, he eats the animal who has no hand. That means four-legged animals. Ahastāni sahastānām apadāni catuṣ-padām. And the animals or living entities who cannot move, they are foodstuff of the moving. That means the grass, plants, they are the foodstuff for the cows and other animals. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. And the big animal eats the small animal. Just like we see a big serpent is eating a small serpent, a big fish eating a small fish. So this is the law, that nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So one life is meant for maintaining another life. This is the law of nature. But Upaniṣad says that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: [Īśo mantra 1] everything belongs to the Lord. Just like in a hotel there are many kinds of foodstuff, but they all belong to the hotel keeper. And you can take only on your table what is offered to you. You cannot take anything, anything, whatever you like, no. That is illegal. Similarly, everything is food, that's all right. But you can take only what is allotted for you, that's all. So human being should take, as far as possible, vegetables. The teeth is made for eating vegetables. That is scientifically true. And if you take vegetables all along, then you will never be diseased. And so far we are concerned, we are taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam. That I have already explained, that Kṛṣṇa wants this foodstuff... If Kṛṣṇa says that "Give Me meat," then we shall eat meat. Because we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We are not distinguished that "Vegetable eating is nice, meat eating is not nice." No. The nature's law is that you must eat, and that eating is something living. Vegetable is also living. But we are not concerned, vegetarian or nonvegetarian. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You give Me fruits, flowers, grains." We offer that. If Kṛṣṇa says, "You give Me meat, chickens," we shall offer and we shall take.



*Guest: What is the proper spiritual attitude toward rodents, reptiles, and disease*-bearing insects? What should be the proper spiritual attitude toward those?



Jayatīrtha: Insects.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What is the spiritual attitude towards reptiles, rodents..."



*Madhudviṣa: Disease*-bearing in animals, something that is diseased and can give you a disease, what is your, what is the Vedic attitude towards protection from these animals?



Prabhupāda: Protection? Cleanliness. Just like if you keep your apartment very cleansed, if you keep your clothes and body very cleansed, you won't find this insect disturbing you. Just like the flies, they go in a nasty place. So you should be cleansed. You should take protection in that way. You cannot kill them. The cockroaches, the modern method of bathroom attached in 600th floor... So (laughs) this is unclean. Therefore the cockroaches are born there, you see? So if you keep yourself clean, there will be no more disturbances. The incense will keep off all insects. You make fresh food, there will be no germs. You take warm, immediately prepared, that is germicide foodstuff. But if you keep for months together in the refrigerator, that will contaminate with germ, disease. Therefore the brahminical culture means cleanliness is next to godliness. You have to keep your body clean, you have to keep your apartment clean, everything clean, and there will be no more disturbance. Bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ. The Vedic literature says that you should keep yourself externally and internally cleansed. Externally, you can keep yourself clean by soap, water, and change of dress, washed dress, externally. And internally, by thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Then there will be no more disturbance.



apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ



*Śuciḥ means cleansed. Therefore we prescribe so many things just to keep you cleansed*-cleansed within, cleansed outside. Then there is no affection of māyā. Otherwise, you will be harassed by three kinds of miserable condition: adhyātmika, adhibhautika... I have seen many persons in India, within two or three days, by perspiration, within their coat, they germinate so many germs. Do not take bath, unclean. You see? So cleanliness is the protection from infection. And water is very disinfectant, natural disinfectant. This is the medical opinion, water. Therefore God has supplied unlimited quantity of water. You can spend it as much as you like. Yes?



Guest: Aren't they allowed to boil water in India?



Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?



Guest: In boiling the water do you kill any little insects that are in the water?



Prabhupāda: Yes. But that I have already explained, that we are killing every moment. Therefore we have to keep from the reaction by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You cannot avoid killing. Whenever we are cooking, we are killing so many germs, the water. While we are burning fire, then so many germs are being killed. So the killing process cannot be stopped, but you should not do it willingly, and you should keep yourself God conscious. Then you are freed from the reaction.



*Revatīnandana: What distinguishes bhakti*-yoga from karma-yoga?



*Prabhupāda: Karma*-yoga means karma mixed with bhakti. And bhakti-yoga means pure bhakti. Somebody is attached to some kind of work, so he is advised karma-yoga. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,



yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi

yaj juhoṣi dadāsi yat

yat tapasyasi kaunteya

*kuruṣva tat mad*-arpaṇam

[Bg. 9.27]



*"My dear Arjuna, whatever you do," yat karoṣi, yad aśnāsi, "whatever you eat," yat karoṣi yad aś..., yaj juhoṣi, "whatever you sacrifice," dadāsi yat, "whatever you give in charity," kuruṣva tat mad*-arpaṇam, "do it for Me." This is called karma-yoga. Somebody is very much fond of giving in charity. Just like in your country there are so many foundation for giving charity. But as soon as you go that "We are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You give us some charity," they will immediately deny, "Oh, we are, we have no concern with religious movement." You see? But Kṛṣṇa says, "If you are so much charitable, give Me something, at least portion of your charity, to Me." Dadāsi yat. Yad aśnāsi. "Whatever you eat, you offer Me." In this way, when people are not directly coming to the bhakti-yoga, so he's advised, "All right, you do like this. Whatever you eat, whatever you give in charity, whatever you make in sacrifice, do it for Me." Then... Just like Arjuna's example is karma-yoga. Arjuna is a fighter, he's a warrior, military man. And he fought for Kṛṣṇa. This is called karma-yoga. You be whatever you may be. You may be a brāhmaṇa, you may be a kṣatriya, you may be a vaiśya, you may be a intelligent man, you may be a military man, you may be a administrator, you may be a business man, or you may be ordinary worker, it doesn't matter. But if you offer the result of your work for the satisfaction of God, then you are perfect. This is the whole thing. That Bhāgavata says,



ataḥ puṁsāṁ dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



There are different classes of men. Generally, they are divided into four classes: the intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the business class of men, and the general worker, laborer class of men. So Bhāgavata says, "Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. You just try to satisfy the Supreme Lord by your work. That's all." If you are intelligent man, oh, write nice books to propagate God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if you write books that "God is dead. There is no God. It is all nonsense," then simply misusing your intelligence. Yes?



Guest: You say we should lose the designations. Now, would you consider the caste system as designations?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: You would be, then, for abolishing the caste system.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. For a devotee there is no caste, because he's servant of God. He does not belong to any material consciousness. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that one who is engaged in the service of the Lord, he is on the platform of becoming Brahman. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān.... Guṇān means this world, this material world is full of three qualities: the quality of goodness, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance. Or mixed. Three into three into nine, nine into nine equal to eighty-one. There are so many mixture of qualities and different kinds of men, because they are within the material qualities. But as soon as you engage yourself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, you are no more within these qualities; *therefore you are freed from designation. Just like these boys, they are not thinking that they are American. I am not thinking "I am not Indian," "I am Indian." Actually, our platform is Kṛṣṇa. We are loving each other. So we have forgotten our designation. Otherwise, how they can work so nicely? Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. They are now thinking in terms of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Similarly, if this consciousness is spread, so simple, then they will lose designation, there will be no more distinction, "Oh, I am Chinese," "I am Russian," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." The fighting is on the platform of designation. But if you say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also a designation, but that is not designation, because in the Vedic literature it is said that ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is pure consciousness. Asmi, my identification, shall continue because I am an individual soul. That cannot be abolished. So when I am thinking that "I am God's," that is my designation-free stage. And when I think that I belong to this family, this country, this society, this group, so many things, then I am designated.



Guest: The basic concept that you are preaching and teaching is the same as the basic content of Christianity, of Buddhism. And if the people of the world would accept this basic principle, there would be no wars and there would be no fighting amongst one another and no disagreement. Because the basic and the fundamental is love.



Prabhupāda: But the thing is...



Guest: If we had that love we would then be united with God. That is our ultimate end.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, you are already united with God because your relationship cannot be rejected with God. Just like father and son. The son may forget his father. That does not mean the relationship of father and son is no more there. So our relationship is there with God, but we have forgotten. So we have to revive our consciousness. It is not that it has to be manufactured something new. The relationship is there. Just like a son, he has forgotten his father. He is very rich man's son, but he's loitering in the street, and he does not know. Just like there is a story of Tarzan. So we are all Tarzans. So we have forgotten, you see? So the whole process is to revive. That is called ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "Oh, I am the son of God. Then where is my distress?" So revival, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to free, make free the consciousness from all contamination of material existence. You call it Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, the same thing. So this is purificatory process, that "I am Kṛṣṇa's, I am God's." Everyone is God's, but he has forgotten. In the animal species of life, they cannot revive, they haven't got that chance, but here is the chance, human form of life. If you miss this chance, then you again go to the cycle of so many species of life. Then our human form is spoiled. So we should try for it. That is the perfection of life. Premā pumartho mahān. Lord Caitanya preaches the highest perfection of life, to revive our natural love for God. And any religion which preaches love of God, that is perfect religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism or anything. That is Bhāgavata religion. Bhāgavata says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is first*-class religious system. What is that? Which trains the followers to love God. That is first-class religion. And religion without God, that is not religion. That is not religion. Because Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣāt bhagavat-praṇītam. Bhagavad-gītā also says that: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Religion means re-establish relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is religion. What is your question?



*Jāhnavā: Śrī Bhaktivedanta, how is it that the Absolute, which is so, at this point, for me, beyond human comprehension, how can it take this form of Kṛṣṇa*-Rādhā?



*Prabhupāda: It is His mercy. The Bhāgavata says that if you want to understand God, His name, His quality, His paraphernalia, His form, it is not possible to realize by your present senses. It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. These present senses, they are so contaminated that it is not possible that you can understand God, His form, His name, His quality, His paraphernalia by speculation. No, it is not possible. Then? How it is possible? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. God reveals to you by your service attitude. And that service attitude begins from your tongue, jihvā. Jihvā means tongue. How? You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Then you will realize. Two things. Very simple method. He'll reveal. You cannot understand what is God, but God will reveal to you, "Here I am." Just like you cannot ask the sun, "Please rise up. I want to see you." Oh, he is not your servant. But when sun reveals to you, you see yourself, you see the sun, and the whole world, everything nicely. So you have to wait for that revelation. And you have to practice this, first of all, this tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. This particular tongue is mentioned. You can begin to reach that stage of revelation by training your tongue. What is that? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Very simple method. You try it and see. Otherwise it is not possible. God is not so little that you can order Him and He'll... No, that is not possible. But if He's pleased, then He'll reveal Himself. So any other question? Or let us chant. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)





681222LE.LA

Press Release

-

Los Angeles, December 22, 1968



Prabhupāda: Give me that.



Govinda: What?



*Prabhupāda: I shall speak. Record it. "Manifesto of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness." The International Society for Krishna Consciousness is a movement aiming at the spiritual reorientation of mankind through the simple process of chanting the holy names of God. The human life is meant for ending the miseries of material existence. Our present*-day society is trying to do so by material progress. However, it is visible to all that in spite of the extensive material progress, the human society is not in peaceful condition. The reason is that a human being is essentially a spirit soul. It is the spirit soul which is the background of development of the material body. However the materialist scientist may deny the spiritual existence in the background of the living force, there is no better understanding than accepting the spirit soul within the body.



*The body is changing from one form to another, but the spirit soul is existing eternally. This fact we can experience even in our own life. Since the beginning of our material body in the womb of our mother, the body is transforming from one shape to another in every second and in every minute. This process is generally known as growth, but actually it is change of body. On this earth planet we see change of day and night and of seasons. The more primitive mentality attributes this change to changes occurring in the sun. For example, in the winter they think the sun is getting weaker, and at night they presume sometimes that the sun is dead. With more advanced knowledge of discovery we see that sun is not changing at all in this way. Seasonal and diurnal changes are attributed to the change of the position of the earth planet. Similarly, we experience bodily changes from embryo to child to youth to maturity to old age and to death. The less intelligent mentality presumes that at the death the spirit soul's existence is forever finished, just like primitive tribes who believe that the sun dies at sunset. Actually, the sun is rising in another part of the world. Similarly, the soul is accepting another type of body. When the body gets old like the old garments and is no longer usable, then the soul accepts another body just like we accept a new suit of clothes. The modern civilization is practically unaware of this truth. They do not care about the constitutional position of the soul. There are different departments of knowledge in different universities and many technological institutions to study and understand the subtle laws of material nature-medical research laboratories to study the physiological condition of the material body-but there is no institution to study the constitutional position of the soul. This is the greatest drawback of material civilization, which is external manifestation of the soul. They are enamored by the glimmering manifestation of the cosmic body or the individual body, but they do not try to understand the basic principles of this glimmering situation. The body looks very beautiful working with full energy and exhibiting great traits of talent and wonderful brain work. But as soon as the soul is away from the body, all this glimmering situation of the body becomes useless. Even the great scientists who have discovered many wonderful scientific contributions could not trace out about the personal self, which is the cause of such wonderful discoveries. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement basically is trying to reach this science of the soul*-not in any dogmatic way, but in complete scientific and philosophical understanding.

*You can find out the background of this body as the soul and the soul's presence as perceived, perceivable by consciousness. Similarly, the presence of Supersoul and superconsciousness in the universal body of cosmic manifestation is perceived by the presence of the Supreme Lord, or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is systematically experienced in the Vedānta*-sūtra, generally known as the Vedānta philosophy, which is elaborately explained by a commentary by the same author of the Vedānta-sūtras known as the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to understand the constitutional position of the Supreme Lord, or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely as Brahman, or the impersonal universal soul; Paramātmā, or the localized universal soul; *and at the end as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. An individual soul is understood in three aspects, namely first in the consciousness pervading all over the body, then as the spirit soul within the heart, and ultimately exhibited as a person. Similarly, the Absolute Truth is first realized as impersonal Brahman, then as localized Supersoul, Paramātmā, and at the end as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all*-inclusive, or, in other words, Kṛṣṇa is simultaneously Brahman, Paramātmā, and the Personality of Godhead. As such, as every one of us is simultaneously consciousness, soul, and person, this individual person and the Supreme Lord Person are qualitatively one but quantitatively different. Just like the drop of sea water and the vast mass of sea water-both are qualitatively one. The chemical composition of the drop of sea water and that of the mass of sea water are one and the same, but the quantity of salt and other minerals in the whole sea is many, many times greater than the quantity of salt and other minerals contained in the drop of sea water. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement maintains the (sic:) speciality of the individual soul and the Supreme Soul. From the Vedic Upaniṣads we can understand that both the Supreme Person, or God, and the individual person are eternal and living entities. The difference is that the supreme living entity, or Supreme Person, maintains all the innumerable living entities. In the Christian way of understanding, the same principle is admitted because in the Bible it is taught that the individual entities should pray to the supreme father for supplying means of maintenance and giving pardon for their sinful activities.

*So it is understood from any source of scriptural injunction that the Supreme Lord, or Kṛṣṇa, is the maintainer of the individual living entities, and it is the duty of the individual entity to feel obliged to the Supreme Lord. This is the whole background of religious principle. Without this acknowledgement, there is chaos, as it is happening in our daily experience at the present moment. Everyone is trying to become the Supreme Lord, either socially, politically or individually. Therefore there is competition for this false lordship and there is chaos all over the world, individually, nationally, socially or collectively. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to establish the supremacy of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. The human society is meant for this understanding because this consciousness makes his life successful. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new introduction of the mental speculators. Actually this movement was started by Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. At least five thousand years ago the movement was presented by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. From this Bhagavad-gītā we can understand that this system of consciousness was spoken by Him long, long before-He imparted to the sun*-god Vivasvān. That calculation goes to show that before the repetition of the Bhagavad-gītā in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, it was once before explained at least forty million years ago. So this movement is not at all new. It is coming down from disciplic succession, and in India from all great leaders of the Vedic society like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, and lately, about 480 years ago, Lord Caitanya. The principle is still being followed today. This Bhagavad-gītā is also very widely persued in all parts of the world by great scholars, philosophers, and religionists. But in most cases the principle is not followed as it is. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to present the principles of the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any misinterpretation.

*In the Bhagavad-gītā we can understand five main principles: namely God, the living entity, the material or the spiritual nature, time, and activities. Out of these five items, God, the living entities, nature-material or spiritual*-and time are eternal. But activities are not eternal. The activities in the material nature are different from the activities in the spiritual nature. In the material nature, although the spiritual soul is eternal, as we have explained before, the activities are temporary. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is aiming to place the spirit soul in his eternal activities. The eternal activities can be practiced even when we are materially encaged. It requires simply direction. But it is possible, under the prescribed rules and regulations, to act spiritually. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement teaches these spiritual activities, and if one is trained up in such spiritual activities, one is transferred to the spiritual world, of which we get ample evidence from Vedic literatures and also from the Bhagavad-gītā. And the spiritually trained person can be transferred to the spiritual world easily by change of consciousness. The consciousness is always there because it is the symptom of the living spirit soul. But at the present moment the consciousness is materially contaminated. Just like pouring water, water pouring, down from the cloud is pure, distilled water, but as soon as the water comes in touch with the earth it becomes muddy immediately. Again, by filtering the same water, the original clearness can be regained. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the process of clearing the consciousness, and as soon as the consciousness clear and pure it is transferred to the spiritual world for eternal life of knowledge and bliss, which we are hankering for in this material world, and being frustrated in every step on account of material contamination. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be taken very seriously by the leaders of the human society. (devotees offer obeisances)

So,

utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt

*tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt

*sato vṛtteḥ sādhu*-saṅge

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati

[Upadeśāmṛta 3]



*This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, or a person's Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can be progressively improved by six processes. What is that? Utsāhā, enthusiasm. Dhairyā. Dhairyā means patience. Utsāhān, dhairyāt, and niścayāt, firm conviction. Utsāhān dhairyāt niścayād tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. And following the regulative principles. Sato vṛtteḥ. The profession must be strictly honest and serious. Sato vṛtteḥ. And sādhu-saṅge, and in the association of the devotees. So you attempted today a press conference, but don't be dejected. We have to become patient, and we must be firmly convinced that our movement shall be successful, provided if we follow the regulative principles. Sato vṛtteḥ and sādhu-saṅge. Sādhu-saṅge means in the association of the devotees. So there is nothing to be dejected. You try and follow the principles. It will come out successful without any doubt.



Thank you. Yes?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have prepared a very large feast.



Devotee: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: That's all right. You eat. It is, today is a ādivas (?) day. Ādivas day means the inauguration. Inauguration day. So you shall prepare the large feast every day and chant every day and eat prasādam every day. This is the inauguration day. (laughter) Yes. At least, make your program that every day in the evening, from seven to eight, at least one hour this kīrtana will go on. I'm very glad that Viṣṇujana chants very nicely, and you also, one after another. So every day make chanting at least for one hour in the temple. And do your activities as usual. Don't be disappointed. Kṛṣṇa will see His own business. So you have prepared large feast. You eat. What is there?



Vīrabhadra: A thousand people in this room?



Prabhupāda: Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca taraḥ sahasrasaḥ. If we can, I mean to say, raise one person Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means we have successfully preached our mission. One moon is better than millions of stars. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can have kīrtana and soon the prasādam will be ready.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can we have kīrtana, then serve prasādam?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kīrtana have, twenty*-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Always.



Revatīnandana: Did you mean from seven to eight every evening, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You can repeat that, replay, the tape.



Govinda dāsī: Āratika?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You... (end)





681223SP.LA

Recorded Speech to

Members of ISKCON London

-

Los Angeles, December 23, 1968



Prabhupāda:

*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmilitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*I offer my respectful obeisances unto the spiritual master, who has opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge in my material existence of darkness. Ladies and Gentlemen, please accept my greetings in the happy new year of 1969, and blessings of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for your kindly participating in this happy meeting of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa appeared on this earthly planet five thousand years ago and gave us the unique philosophy and religious principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the shape of the Bhagavad*-gītā. Unfortunately, in course of time, as things change and deteriorate in the material world, people deteriorated and forgot the art of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lord Kṛṣṇa again therefore appeared as Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu at the end of the fifteenth century to revive the same Kṛṣṇa consciousness atmosphere in the human society. Lord Caitanya's special gift to the fallen souls of this age of quarrel and disagreement is to induce the people in general, the religionists, the philosophers and everyone to take to the chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. He informed us that the Absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead can descend also in transcendental sound vibration, and thus, when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra offenselessly, we immediately contact Kṛṣṇa and His internal energy, and thus we become immediately purified from all dirty things in our heart.



*Our conditional life of material existence is due to dirty things in our heart. Originally we are all Kṛṣṇa conscious living beings, but due to our long material association in different species of life, varying to 8,400,000 different forms of life, we are accustomed to transmigrating from one form of body or another. In such cycle of birth and death, I, you, and every one of us, although originally spirit soul and therefore qualitatively one in constitution with the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, we have identified with this material form of life, subjected to various forms of material pangs, specifically in the shape of birth, death, old age and disease. The whole material civilization is a process of hard struggle of life, ending in birth, death, old age and disease. The human society is struggling fruitlessly against these perpetual problems of life in different ways. Some of them are making material attempts and some of them are making partially spiritual attempts. The materialists are trying to solve the problems by achievement of scientific knowledge, education, philosophy, morality, ethics, poetic thoughts, etc., and the spiritualists are trying to solve the problems by different theses like discerning matter from spirit in various ways. And some of them are trying as mystic yogis to arrive at the right conclusion. But all of them must know it for certain that in this age of Kali, or the age of quarrel and dissension, there is no possibility of success without accepting the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the speaker of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, has therefore recommended that everyone, be he a fruitive worker, a salvationist or a mystic yogi, if actually he wants to be freed from the pangs of material existence, he must take to the process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is therefore an art of changing our hearts by purification from the dust of material desires. We cannot stop our desires because as living entities, desiring is the component part of our constitution. Therefore we cannot give up our desires, but we can purify our desires. Killing of desire is no solution, but curing the desires, diseased condition of desire, is the right solution. As such, therefore, this dust of misunderstanding is cleared off. We can see our real position of life and make steady progress towards the ultimate goal of life. We have forgotten the ultimate goal of our life due to lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore our entire activity should be executed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to revive our lost relationship with God, or Kṛṣṇa. We do not prohibit anyone to cease from the present occupational duties, but we simply recommend that he executes such duties in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu never recommended changing one's position of life, but He favored the process of hearing about Kṛṣṇa from the right, bona fide source. One should give up the artificial process of philosophical speculation to arrive at the real goal of life, but one should submissively hear about the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is generally inculcated in Śrīmad*-Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. If one submissively chants the mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and hears the message of Kṛṣṇa as it is in the Bhagavad-gītā without any malinterpretation, then he does not have to change his position by some artificial method. Simply by the method of chanting and hearing, he comes to a transcendental position which will help him to know God, His name, His form, His quality, His pastimes, His paraphernalia, and so on.

*We are, however, misled by persons and leaders who have very little connection with God, or Kṛṣṇa. Some of them are denying the existence of God, some of them are falsely trying to place themselves in place of God, some of them are in favor of the impersonal feature of God, and, at last, some of them, without being able to reach any right conclusion, are accepting the ultimate goal of life as void, or zero, in utter hopelessness and frustration. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is solid ground for understanding Kṛṣṇa, or God, directly by the simple method of chanting the holy name of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Misled by blind leaders, the followers who themselves are blind have failed to achieve the desired success, but here is a method called by the name Kṛṣṇa consciousness which is directly offered by Kṛṣṇa, and the instructions are plainly described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, given to us five thousand years ago, and again confirmed by Him in the form of Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a great art of life, very easy and sublime. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement gives you everything you want, without any artificial endeavor. It is transcendentally colorful and full of transcendental pleasure. We prosecute these Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities through singing, dancing, eating, and talking philosophy received through authorized disciplic succession, and therefore it gives us everything we want, without any artificial change of our natural instincts. The consciousness is there in you, but it is now dirty consciousness, and what you have to do now is to cleanse it from all dirty things and make it clear Kṛṣṇa consciousness in pleasant method by chanting the glorified holy name of God: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. These performances we can practice anywhere. It does not matter either in a temple, or in a street, or in a park, or at home. But to assemble together and sit together, we require a place for congregation; therefore a temple of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is required to be established in various centers of the world, irrespective of the particular countries, culture, philosophy, and religion. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so universal and perfect that it can appeal to everyone, irrespective of his position; therefore I fervently appeal to you, all present in this meeting, to extend your cooperation for successful execution of this great movement.

Thank you once more. (Hare Kṛṣṇa bhajana by Prabhupāda with harmonium)

Śrīman Gurudāsa Adhikārī and his associate Godbrothers have very eagerly asked me to visit London, and I am also very much anxious to see you all there. So as soon as there is opportunity, I shall go with my saṅkīrtana party, who are now engaged in Los Angeles, and that will be a great pleasure for us all to meet together. (aside:) That's all right. (end)



690113LE.LA

Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, January 13, 1969



*Prabhupāda: We are all in ignorance, in the darkness of ignorance. Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya. So the disciple is praying that "I am... I was in the darkness of ignorance," but jñānāñjana-śalākayā, "but you have opened my eyes by the torture of knowledge..." Not... What is called? "Torch," "torch of knowledge." Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā, cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena: "One who has opened my eyes in that way," tasmai śrī gurave namaḥ, "I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master."



*So in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also it is stated that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are all born ignorant. Either in human society or in animal society, we are born all ignorant. Therefore, in the human society the system is that children are given education. Why? Because it is supposed that the child is born ignorant. Similarly, as we give material education to the children, it is the duty of the parents to enlighten them with spiritual education. Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that "Nobody should desire to become a father, nobody should desire to become a mother, unless one is able to save the child from the impending death." So that is also the duty of spiritual master. One should not become a spiritual master unless one is able to save the disciple from impending death. And what is that impending death? Impending death means... Because we are spirit soul, we have no death. But impending death means of this body. So it is the duty of spiritual master, it is the duty of the parents, it is the duty of the state, it is the duty of kinsmen, friends, everyone, to save people from this impending birth and death.

*So how to save? That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Lord Kṛṣṇa says,

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*"Anyone who comes to Me, he has no more to go back to the miserable material existence." Therefore it is the duty of a spiritual master, it is the duty of the parents, that they should enlighten their dependents to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, the simple factor, then he is saved from this material existence, or accepting repeated birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Here, everything in the material world, everything is born, it remains for some time, it grows then dwindles then vanishes. So this is not very desirable. But unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know. They are very much proud of advancement of knowledge, but they do not know that the cause of suffering is this body. They do not know. And they do not know how to make a solution of this material existence. Therefore parābhava. Bhāgavata says all their so*-called, nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat. Defeat. Lord Jesus Christ also said like that, that "If one gains everything and then loses his own soul, what does he gain?" Similarly, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. A man's life is defeat only. However he may be very expert in driving motorcar day and night, this way and that way, very busy man, but if he does not inquire about his self-"What I am? Wherefrom I have come? Where I have to go to? Why I am suffering? Why I am put to this disadvantageous position?"-when one does not inquire for all these things, then his activities are defeat, only defeat. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will save not only humanity but the living entities from this disastrous position of repeated birth and death. The Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, they stress on this point. Lord Kṛṣṇa stresses that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: [Bg. 13.9] "You are very much proud of your knowledge, but if you want to be at all a man of knowledge, a man of wisdom, then you should first of all keep before you the problems of birth, death, old age and disease, because your so-called advancement of knowledge cannot make a solution of this birth, death, old age and disease."



*So we have spoken many times in various meetings in this hall about these things. Whole Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is meant for this, to get out of this material stage-playing. We are playing in a stage under different bodies. Just like in a stage, we play-somebody is playing the part of a king, somebody is playing the part of a queen, and so many things-similarly, we are, on the material stage, playing different parts, but we are all living entities, pure soul. Antavanta ime dehā: [Bg. 2.18] "This body is perishable." Nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ: "But the proprietor of the body, that is eternal." [break] ...vāṇī and vapu, and vapu means the physical body, and vāṇī means the vibration. So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are ācāryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Kṛṣṇa, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu na... Guruṣu means those who are ācāryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the śāstras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living. You'll see in these pictures. This movement was started by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and then it was entrusted to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. Then we are trying to serve his word, and many of my Godbrothers, they are also... (break-end)



690115LE.LA

Lecture

-

Los Angeles, January 15, 1969



*Prabhupāda: So this yoga system, bhakti*-yoga, means to concentrate only to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and His expansion also... In the Brahma-saṁhitā Kṛṣṇa's expansions are described:



*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa is always existing with innumerable forms. How? Aṇḍāntara*-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Aṇḍāntara-stham. Aṇḍa means this universe. It is just like an egg. Aṇḍa means egg. All these planets and universes, they are made on the shape of egg. Aṇḍāntara-stham. So each and every universe, Kṛṣṇa enters as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Just like within matter, when there is male and female, sex, it becomes just like a small pea. That is also egglike, emulsified. And the living entity enters, and then the pea form becomes developed into a body. Similarly, without entrance of spirit, no matter can develop. Matter itself cannot develop. There must be spirit soul; *then it develops. Pregnancy is formed when the spirit soul is there within the matter. Not that simply material secretion makes life. That is foolish understanding. Without spiritual spark being entered within the matter, it does not develop. Just like if a dead child is born, the form of the child may be preserved some by chemical process, but it will not develop. The developing process is stopped immediately, as soon as the spirit spark is gone out of it. So the conclusion is, matter cannot develop without spirit being within. So this material world, it is developing. The modern scientists also agree that the universe is increasing in volume. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa has entered within this universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Therefore it is developing. So there are innumerable universes, and so therefore there are innumerable Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇus. Because without Viṣṇu entering, this universe cannot develop. And the first creature is Brahmā. From the navel of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, a lotus flower is grown. And upon that, Brahmā is the first creature. So the first creature is the most intelligent person. So Darwin's theory cannot be applicable because his theory is that human form develops after many evolution. That is another process. That is also stated in the Padma Purāṇa. That is called jīva*-paryāyā. But this is not a fact, that in the, during..., in the beginning of the creation there was no human being or intelligent creature. The first creature is Brahmā, who has created this universe.



*So our point is, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, we mean with all His different forms, Rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. So bhakti-yoga can be applicable to any one of these form, either Kṛṣṇa or Rāma or Viṣṇu or Nārāyaṇa, so many forms. Generally, Vaiṣṇavas worship the form of Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, and Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. In our conditional stage, we cannot worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa-sevā is for them who has developed spontaneous love for God. For them. Spontaneous. The spontaneous love... The example is given: just like a young man, young girl, without any acquaintance, when they see each other, there is some loving propensity. That is called spontaneous. Not that one has to learn how to love. Simply very sight will invoke some loving propensity. That is called spontaneous. When we are advanced in the matter of loving God, so much so that as soon as you see or remember anything about God, immediately you become ecstatic, that is spontaneous. Just like Lord Caitanya, when He entered the temple of Jagannātha, as soon as He saw Jagannātha, immediately fainted: "Here is My Lord." So this spontaneous love, those who have developed this spontaneous love, there is a stage. By practice, one will come to that stage. Because that spontaneous love is eternal. It is not artificial. We have got, but it is now covered by our material association. So it has to be uncovered. And when you come to that stage, spontaneous, without any paraphernalia... Here we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa with so many paraphernalia. We must have a nice temple, nice dress, everything very favorable. Then we have some spiritual, ecstatic love. We have to create the groundwork. But spontaneous, there is no necessity of groundwork. Immediately one remembers of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes ecstatic. So that is the highest perfection of love of Godhead, spontaneous, without any external influence.

Now, we are teaching devotional service by the order of spiritual master: "Our spiritual master has said this; *we must follow." That is required, routine, practice. Just like in India, formerly, the boys and girls were married at very early age. So I was also married very early age. My wife was only eleven years old. So I have heard my mother-in-law was married*-she was seven years old and my father-in-law was eleven years old. So this marriage was performed, but it is not that the husband and wife live together unless they are mature, grown-up. So there was a system to, in order to... Because premixing is still not allowed in India, but the husband and wife... The wife by the elderly members was asked that "Just take this foodstuff, tiffin, to your husband." So she comes, offers little foodstuff, pan. In this way they gradually develop their relationship, loving relationship. But actually, when that love is mature, there is no need of introduction. In the beginning it is required. So devotional service is divided into two portions. Vidhi. Vidhi-mārga, rāga-mārga. Vidhi means by according to the order of the spiritual master. Then, when it is fully developed, then no more vidhi. Automatically one will be anxious to serve Kṛṣṇa: "How I shall make nice dress. How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa. How I shall cleanse the temple." There is no question of ordering. Spontaneous love. By rendering service, he feels transcendental bliss. That is spontaneous.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we have to increase our attachment for Kṛṣṇa to the perfectional stage, when there is no more order, but automatically. Automatic. That is required. Mayy asakta*-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That yoga system... At that time there is no yoga. It is already... Yoga system means a process which helps uniting with the Supreme. That is called yoga system. But when there is spontaneous love, that is not a yoga system. It is yoga already. United. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that united means the individual soul has no more any separate existence, monism. They become one. But Vaiṣṇava philosophy, they say they become one, but at the same time they remain separate. So these things are to be realized. As we make advance in spontaneous love for God, then these things become automatically revealed. It is... Simply by theoretical exposition they cannot be understood. Therefore we have to practice. Vidhi-mārga... That vidhi-mārga is called bhakti-yoga. Vidhi-mārga means by following the regulative principles of śāstra, orders of the spiritual master, when we engage ourself in devotional service, that is called vidhi-mārga. So we should not at once try to rise up to the rāga-mārga, or spontaneous. It is not an artificial thing. When one is, I mean to say, raised to the platform of spontaneous love, there is no question of falling back. During rāga-mārga, or regulative principles, there is chance of falling back because that is not mature. But when it is mature, then there is no falldown. At that time, without Kṛṣṇa, without serving Kṛṣṇa, nobody can live. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said that "I have no love for Kṛṣṇa." Just try to understand. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "I have no love for Kṛṣṇa." Why? Then why You are crying? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I am crying just to make a show to others that I am a devotee. Actually I am not a devotee. If I would have been actually devotee, how I am living without Kṛṣṇa? I should have died." This is ecstasy. "If I had any love for Kṛṣṇa, how I am living without Kṛṣṇa?" That means, "I do not love Kṛṣṇa."

So these are the highest stage. We should not imitate. We should follow the regulative principles. But some day will come when you'll be feeling the separation of Kṛṣṇa as death, as good as death. (end)



690119LE.LA

Sunday Feast Lecture

-

Los Angeles, January 19, 1969



Prabhupāda: The real meaning of Sanskrit means "reform." It is not whimsical, just like in English language, "beauty but, peauty put." It is not like that. Every word, every syllable has got a symbolic meaning. Bhaga. Bhaga means opulence, and vān means one who possesses. There are many words like that, guṇavān. Guṇavān. Guṇa means quality, and vān means one who possesses. Similarly, the Sanskrit word, equivalent word of the English word "God" is Bhagavān. Bhaga... God... Generally described, God is great. That is perfect. Actually God is great. Nobody can be equal to God, and nobody can be greater than God. Greatness... If I am great and if there is another competitor great, then I am not God, neither he is God. When we say, speak of God, there is no competitor. The Sanskrit word used, asamaurdhva... Asama. Sama means equal; a means not. Nobody is equal. Asama, urdhva. There are three positions. Just like we are sitting here. Somebody is equal to me, somebody is greater than me and somebody is lower than me. You will find, everyone. Anywhere you go, you'll find, somebody is greater than you, somebody is equal to you and somebody is lower than you, anywhere you go. But in case of God, there can be only lower; nobody greater or equal. That is God, simple definition of God. Nowadays there is a disease, to declare oneself as God, "I am God." And there is regular propaganda that everyone is God. Now, how everyone can be God? The definition of God is like this: "Nobody shall be equal; nobody shall be greater." Then He is God. If somebody says, "I am God," say, if somebody thinks that "I am God," he should think also, "Whether I have no more any greater than me or equal to me?" Oh, if you find so many equal and greater, lower also... But first thing is whether there is nobody greater than you or nobody equal to you. Then you are God. Don't be crazy and think that "I am God." God is not like that. Here is the definition, bhagavān, asamaurdhva. In Sanskrit word, it is very nicely described.



*So bhaga... Bhaga means opulence. And what are the opulences? That also, we can very easily understand. If one man is very rich, we call opulent. If one man is very famous, reputed, he's opulent. If a man is very advanced in learning, in wisdom, he's al... That is also opulence. A scientist, a philosopher... If one is very beautiful, he is also opulent. So there are six kinds of opulences: richness, reputation, strength, influence, beauty, and wisdom. So asamaurdhva, that equality and greatness... When you'll find a certain man is in such a position that nobody is richer than him and nobody is famous, more famous, than him, nobody is more stronger than him, nobody is more influential than him, nobody is more beautiful than him, and nobody is wiser than him*-if you find somebody full in six opulences... These are the definition given in Vedic literature.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇāṁ iti bhagaṅ ganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*Bhaga, these opulences... So you have to find out. You do not accept any cheap God. You just try to find out whether this man claiming as God has no greater than him and no equal to him. Then he is God. This simple test. Don't accept any bogus, so*-called God. Just try to put him to the test whether he is actually God. This is the test, that nobody should be greater than him; nobody shall be equal to him. Then he is God.



*So in the Vedic literature, in India, you know there were many saintly persons, great scholars from time immemorial. Even not very recently, say, five hundred years ago there were such men, personalities. Now it is almost finished, but still, if you find, you will see there are great sages, saintly persons, who understand the meaning of Vedic literature, and they live up to the standard of Vedic life. So that is the definition given by great saints and sages, this definition given by Parāśara Muni, a great sage. He was the father of Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva is called Veda*-Vyāsa. His another name is Veda-Vyāsa. Veda-Vyāsa means... His actual name is Vyāsadeva, but because he compiled all the Vedic knowledge in book form... Before the advent of this present age, which is known as Kali-yuga... He compiled all Vedic knowledge... Before that, there was no necessity of book writing, neither there was facility of printing books. There was no press. People had no necessity of keeping knowledge in writing. There was no necessity. Their memory was so sharp that once heard from the spiritual master, they remembered. But in this age, in this Kali-yuga, memory, duration of life, mercifulness, stature of the body, and so many things, they are reducing. They are reducing. We are not advancing. That is wrong idea. For example, in your country the stature is also reducing. Formerly in our childhood, I saw Europeans and Americans, they were very tall. But not only in your country, every country the stature is reducing. The memory is reducing. The duration of life... Your grandfather or great-grandfather, perhaps he lived for hundred years. I saw. My grandmother lived for ninety-five years. My father lived for eighty-four years. So I do not know how long I shall live. Still I am living. So in this way the age, duration of life, will reduce in this age. And it is also said that at the ultimate stage, at the end of this age, if a man lives for twenty to thirty years, he'll be considered a grand old man. So because our human assets are reducing... Practically there is no mercifulness now, dayā. Formerly a man was very charitable, but here, at the present moment, where is the question of charity? He cannot maintain oneself. So these things are reducing. Therefore Vyāsadeva thought it wise to give the Vedic knowledge in writings so that we can read, we can hear, and we can utilize, we can take benefit out of it. So Vyāsadeva gave us this Vedic literature. His father, Parāśara Muni, gave us the definition, the understanding of God, what we mean by God. So he gave us this definition, that "God is He who is full with six kinds of opulences, of which there is nobody greater or nobody is equal. Then he is God." You try to understand the six kinds of, I mean to say, opulences, and you try to find out a person who has no competitor, neither greater than him. Then you accept him as God. Otherwise reject. Don't accept.

*So how you can find out a person who is the richest man within this..., not within this world, within this universe. It is very difficult. You cannot find out a being who is the most, I mean to say, famous within this universe. We can know. Just like in your country, your President is the most famous man. But in other country there may be another famous man. In other planet there may be another famous man. So you cannot fix up that "Here is the man who is the most famous within this universe, who is the most influential, strong, wise." So therefore, if you try to understand who is God by corroborating the definition of God, it is very difficult to find out. If you travel all... Now you have got sputniks, but you cannot go further than 25,000 miles. But there is no limit even of this material, one universe, and there are innumerable universes. To find out the most important man or living entity within this universe... Of course, from Vedic literature we understand Brahmā is the most, I mean to say, opulent personality within this universe, Brahma. He is called the creator of this universe. But from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam we understand that Brahmā is not the ultimate creature. In the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find. It is said, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The definition of God is given there, and the qualification of God is given there, that He instructed Brahma. Brahmā is calculated to be the prime personality within this universe, but he was also instructed by God. Tene brahma, ādi-kavi. Ādi-kavi. Ādi-kavi means the first man, the first man of knowledge. So you may question that "In the creation, first, there was only one living creature, Brahma. Then where he went to take lessons? Who instructed him? There was no other living creature." That is also another qualification of God. God created. That also you know. You have read in your Bible. God created, but He is not one of the created beings. He created. Therefore, before creation, He was there. It is to be concluded. Before creation of this cosmic manifestation, He was existing. That information you'll have from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], in Vedānta-sūtra, "the original source of all emanation."

*So God created. Try to understand what is the position of God. God created means before the creation, God was there. Just like if you say that "Mr. such and such has constructed this building," that means before the construction of the building, Mr. such and such was living, was existing. So "God created" means God is not one of the beings who were created. He is beyond creation. Therefore one great stalwart ācārya of India, Śaṅkarācārya, whose name you might have heard, he says, nārāyaṇaḥ para avyaktāt, avyaktāt anya*-sambhavaḥ: "Nārāyaṇa, God, the Supreme Lord, He is beyond this creation. He's not one of the created beings." You try to understand. God said, "Let there be creation," and there was creation: "Yes." His word is sufficient. His word is sufficient. You can take practical example. In your country you can understand this nice example. During the fall, all of a sudden, all the leaves of the tree, they fall down. There is no more leaf. And again, during the beginning of spring, the, immediately everything becomes green. Now, how this is happening? If you decorate one tree, if you want to take out all the leaves of a tree, it will take months together. And if you want to decorate one tree without leaves, it will take months together. But you can see that within a few days all leaves are fallen down, and within a few days all leaves are coming out. So why don't you believe that simply by word of God there may be creation, there may be destruction? That is sufficient. He doesn't require any engineering. Simply that vibration is sufficient. Śabdāt pravṛttiḥ.

*So these things are very nicely, clearly explained in the Vedic literature. If you take advantage of this Vedic literature, especially of the... Bhagavad*-gītā is the preliminary study, ABCD. Bhagavad-gītā is not very high standard spiritual knowledge. It is simply elementary, ABCD knowledge of spiritual life, rudimentary knowledge. And if you want to study more and more, there is Vedānta-sūtra, there is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Upaniṣad, so many things. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give people chance to take advantage of this Vedic literature. There is a very nice verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta:

*anādi bahir*-mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gelā

ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā



*We do not know when we have forgotten God, when we have missed our relationship with God. We are eternally related with God. We are still related. Our relationship is not lost. Just like the father and the son, the relationship cannot be lost, but when the son becomes crazy or mad, he thinks that he has no father. That is a conditional... But actually the relationship is not lost. When he comes to the consciousness, "Oh, I am the son of such and such gentleman," the relationship is immediately there. Similarly, our consciousness, this material consciousness, is a condition of craziness. We have forgotten God. We are declaring God is dead. Actually I am dead. I am thinking, "God is dead." Just like I am deaf, I am asking somebody, "Oh, Mr. such and such." He's replying, but I am deaf. I cannot hear. I say, "Mr. such and such, he cannot hear me." You see? He himself is deaf. The answer is there, but because he cannot appreciate, he says, "Mr. such and such is deaf." He is deaf. Similarly, we have become so much materially dead that we have lost our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, but we are declaring, "God is dead." God is not dead. How God can be dead if functions are going on? According to His order, the sun is rising every day. Yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. The moon is rising, the air is changing, the season is changing. Everything is going on nicely. How you can say God is dead? God is not dead, but we are dead to appreciate the function of God. We are dead.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give life to the dead society of human being. They are now dead, crazy dead. So our request is that you take full advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Your life will be happy. You'll find a new phase of existence, happiness, fullness. That is sure. And the method is very simple. We don't ask you... Just like as soon as I enter, all of you join in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy thing. Even a child can join. And simply by chanting, you'll be purified, simply by chanting. You haven't got to make any exercise, keeping your head down or this or that. No. Simple method: chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So this is our propaganda. We don't charge anything. We don't say that "I sell one mantra. You take it and give me some dollars." No. It is freely distributed. Freely. In the street they are being distributed. But don't neglect it. Because we are distributing this, the most valuable asset of the world so cheaply, don't neglect it. Take it. Don't minimize the value because we are distributing free. It is the most valuable thing of your life, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And you'll practically find the result. It is not bluff. So many American boys and girls, they are chanting. They are not imported from India, but they have taken it very seriously, not only here. We have got seventeen branches all over your country, and they are very happy. And there is no loss. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, what is your loss? But the gain is very great. You can chant. Simply while walking in the street you can chant. While working, you can chant. While at home, you chant. When at office, you chant. There is no license, no expenditure, no loss, but the gain is very great. That is our request.

So we thank you very much that you are sympathetic with this movement and coming every weekly to participate in our love feast. So if you simply come by taking part in this feasting festival, you'll be infected with Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Devotees: Haribol! Jaya!



Prabhupāda: Everything has got some infectional influence. So if bad thing has got infectional influence, why not good thing? So you try to associate with us and you'll be infected. You'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (end)





690209LE.LA

Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, February 9, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...it is taken orphans are very much forlorn. But in the presence of parents also, many children are suffering. And (in) the presence of good medicine, good physician, many people are dying. It is not guaranteed. Suppose one is diseased, suffering. If you engage good, qualified physician, good medicine, and therefore there is no guarantee of cure. No. There is no guarantee. The medical practitioners say, "We cannot guarantee. We are trying our best. That's all." Similarly, when a person is drowning in the water, if you send a good boat to save him, that is also not guaranteed. In this way, if we study that we are completely dependent on something else... Our process of making ourself independent... We may manufacture so many things for our independence, but śāstra says, unless there is protection from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, these methods and processes will not save us. Tāvat tanu-bhṛtāṁ tvad-upekṣitānām. If Kṛṣṇa does not like, does (sic:) not wish that "These children will suffer in spite of good parents," so that suffering nobody can check. "This man must drown in spite of very nice good boat and ship"-nobody can check. "This man must die in spite of good physician and medicine"*-he must die. Therefore our first relief, guaranteed relief, is this shelter of Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, even there is some deficiencies in the matter of protecting us, Kṛṣṇa will save. Therefore we should depend on Kṛṣṇa. That is called śaraṇāgati, surrender, to believe that "Kṛṣṇa will give us protection." Without Kṛṣṇa's protection, no other protection is valid. There is no guarantee. So in every way we shall surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also guarantees, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Our sufferings are due to our sinful activities. So Kṛṣṇa gives guarantee that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "I shall save you from all kinds of sinful reaction."



So śaraṇāgati, surrender to Kṛṣṇa, is our only business. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to teach people to, not to declare independence, which is not possible, nor to try to make this world happy without Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. That is our propaganda. Whatever you do, you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, or God. "Kṛṣṇa" is the most explicit term for God. God may have many names. Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name. God has no name; *some philosophers say like that. No name means that His name is understood by His different action. Just like Kṛṣṇa is sometimes called Yaśodā*-nandana. Because He has accepted mother Yaśodā, to become her son, therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Yaśodā-nandana. Kṛṣṇa's name is Pārtha-sārathi. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa has accepted to become a chariot driver of Arjuna. Pārtha means Arjuna, and sārathi means chariot driver. So Kṛṣṇa's name became Pārtha-sārathi. Kṛṣṇa used to steal butter from the stock of His mother's butter stock; *therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Mākhana*-cora. So in this way Kṛṣṇa's name are varieties. Kṛṣṇa has unlimited number of activities, and according to such activity He has got unlimited names. But the primary name which is applicable in all circumstances is "Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone. Otherwise how you're attracted? If Kṛṣṇa is not all-attractive... From the beginning of your life you never heard of Kṛṣṇa, neither you knew about Kṛṣṇa. Why you are attracted? Huh? So Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. That is the perfect name of God, "Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa has got many names, sahasra nāme, thousands of names. This name is... (aside:) Just, time is up? Or...

So kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. According to Vedic literature, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, svayam. Svayam means original. Kṛṣṇa has many extension, incarnation. We are also Kṛṣṇa's extension. We are, all living entities, we are also Kṛṣṇa's extension. We are called vibhinnāṁśa, separated extension. Separated extension means just like this finger is the part of your body, but when it is separated from the body for some reason... The finger's name is "finger," but it is separated; it is no longer used for the whole body. Similarly, the conditioned souls, we... We have come to this material world being conditioned by the laws of material nature; *therefore our so*-called independence is bogus. There is no independence. We are completely under the grip of material nature, so therefore we are separated. When we are again joined with Kṛṣṇa, then we are one with Kṛṣṇa. Just like this finger is one with this body; *although it is called finger, but it is the same. The importance of the finger is as good as the whole body. Similarly, when we shall join again with Kṛṣṇa, then we become as good as Kṛṣṇa, advaya*-jñāna, absolute. Just yesterday, day before yesterday, I was explaining, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. Every part, every limb of Kṛṣṇa has got the potency of acting like other limb. We can only see with our eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can eat also with His eyes. Therefore absolute.

So Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel is also one with Kṛṣṇa. In the spiritual world there is no two. All one, one unit. This will take time to understand. Theoretically we can understand. And here, in this material world, we are all separated. Therefore, just like if electric bulbs are separated from the powerhouse, practically it has no value, similarly, so long we are separated from Kṛṣṇa, we have no value. Sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ. Sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ. Sthānāt means from the right position one falls down. So by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by reviving your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by engaging yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service, you revive your original position. That is called liberation. Now we are not liberated; *we are dependent on so many laws, so many conditions, although we are very much proud and puffed*-up, independent. Who is independent? Nobody is independent. It is not possible to become independent. It is simply false pride, independent. So don't try to become independent. Please try to become dependent on Kṛṣṇa. That will make your life successful.

Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



690210LE.LA

Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, February 10, 1969



*Prabhupāda: After each and every verse we chant, govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Similarly, we repeat Kṛṣṇa-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Why we repeat? The more we repeat means we learn to love. That is required. Anything which you do not love, you cannot repeat. It will be disgusting. Anything, any word you take, if you simply repeat, you'll feel disgusted. Sometimes those who are not in Kṛṣṇa conscious life, they also feel this repetition as disgusting, hackneyed, because they have not developed love. Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "What shall I chant with one tongue and what shall I hear with two ears? If millions of tongue I would have possessed, then I could chant little." And they're tasting... Because they have got love for Kṛṣṇa, they are tasting the nectarean of chanting. They cannot give up. In the material world also, there are many slogans. We repeat because we love.



*So real thing is to develop love for Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vṛndāvana standard. In Vṛndāvana, Nanda Mahārāja and Yaśodā*-mayī, Rādhārāṇī, gopīs, the cowherdsmen, boys, cows, calves, trees, they do know that Kṛṣṇa is God. You have read in Kṛṣṇa book, sometimes when Kṛṣṇa does something wonderful, they take Him as a wonderful child, boy, that's all, or child. They do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. But they love Kṛṣṇa more than anything. They do not know except Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Not very much philosophy. Whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not, whether the symptoms of God are there or not, the Vṛndāvana-vāsī, inhabitants, they do not care for it. Kṛṣṇa may be God or a man, but they love Him. That's all. That is wanted. We have to increase our love for Kṛṣṇa; therefore this worship, temple worship. If you always be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, naturally you develop love for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Premā pumartho mahān. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that prema, love for Kṛṣṇa, love for God, that is the highest achievement in human life. Premā pumartho mahān. It is not religiosity. Religiosity is different thing. Everyone goes to church or temple with some material purpose generally, to get... Just like in church they go: "God, give us our daily bread." That is material purpose. Not only church, everywhere, that is the system. Ārto arthārthī. Of course, that is good. Four classes of men whose background is pious life, they go to God, church or temple, when they're distressed. Others, those whose background is not piety, simply mischief, they cannot go. Therefore even one goes to God for praying something material, they're better than those who do not go to God. Just like in Communist country, they do not believe in God: "Why we shall go to God? We shall create things. We shall create bread." In the Communist country the propaganda was that these Communists would go to villages, ask the villagers to come to church and pray to God, "Give us our daily bread," and they would ask, "Whether you have got bread?" Of course, in the church where is the bread? They will say, "No, we haven't got bread." "All right, you ask us." And they ask the Communist leader, "Give us our daily bread," and they give sumptuously. "Why should you go to church?" They preached godlessness in this way, that "You are not getting bread from the church. You are getting bread from us. Why not worship Lenin and his followers? He gave sufficient bread." In this way they tried to make people godless, that "Don't go to church." Still their propaganda.

*But our relationship with God is so permanent that artificially we may try to banish God some way or other*-it cannot go on. To become atheist, not to believe in God, they're simply artificial. These godless persons, when they're actually in danger, they think of God. I have seen it. Automatically they think of God. So this godlessness is not our natural life. To love God, that is our natural life. (end)



690212LE.LA

Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, February 12, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...controlling the mind and the senses. So a devotee says that to control the mind and senses, that is also required, but if one has gotten the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu... These senses are like serpents, they are so dangerous. But protkhāta*-daṁṣṭrāyate: a serpent without poison teeth. Suppose we are sitting here. If you find a serpent here, you'll be all afraid, and the whole meeting will be disturbed: "There is a serpent." But if you know that serpent has no poison teeth, you'll not be disturbed, if his poison teeth is broken. Sometimes for medical purpose the serpent's poison teeth is taken away, to take that, what is called, anti-venom, anti-venom injection they prepare. So serpent is dangerous on account of these poison teeth. So here the devotee says, yes, the senses are serpentlike, dangerous, but by the mercy of Caitanya we can break the poison teeth. How it is that? If you constantly engage your senses for Kṛṣṇa, oh, the poison teeth is broken. The poison teeth is broken. The most formidable serpent is this tongue. If you simply talk of Kṛṣṇa and if you simply eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, oh, the poisonous effect of tongue will be broken. You'll have no opportunity to talk nonsense or to eat nonsense. Then your life becomes advanced immediately fifty percent(?). If you can control the tongue, then you control all the senses. If you cannot control the tongue, then you cannot control other senses. Therefore it is said, protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate, the poison teeth is taken away.



*And viśvaṁ pūrṇa*-sukhāyate. Oh, people are harassed with so many problems. The politicians and the humanists, the socialists, the ambassadors, the presidents, they're all harassed with the problems. And a Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no problems. (laughter) Has no problems. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. The whole universe becomes happy to them. And vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate. What to speak of this man or that big man, that big man, a devotee doesn't care a fig even for the great demigods. Otherwise, they don't care for any big demigod. They simply care for Kṛṣṇa. So vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate. Kīṭāyate means they consider just like ordinary worm. "What is this? He's also a living entity. That's all." Yat-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatāṁ gauram eva stumaḥ. Oh, Lord Caitanya's mercy is so valuable, so great, that one can be posted in this position. (end)



690323LE.HAW

Lecture

-

Hawaii, March 23, 1969



Prabhupāda: So the first question is, "What is the practice you preach?" Yes. We are preaching the original practice. Practice means which is practically done. And sometimes things are impractical when they are unnatural, and natural things can be practiced very easily. So our preaching is to reinstate the living soul to his original condition. The original condition of living being is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. As such, the part and parcel is meant for rendering service to the whole. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. The finger is expected to give service to the whole body. When I am feeling itching, my finger is helping it. When I want to pick up something, my finger is helping. Similarly, any part of my body... When I want to go out, my leg is walking. When I want, I want to see something, my eyes are helping. So in this way you can understand what we mean by part and parcel. Take materially also, any machine. The part and parcel... Just like here is a machine, tape recorder. There are different parts. One part is required to give, adjust speed; one part is required how to move, how to start, how to stop, how to increase. So different parts. Similarly, we are living entities, and the Lord is also a living entity. And we are originally created to help the Lord. He does not require... Because He's complete. But just to give a crude example, as the part and parcel required: now, suppose this finger is not giving me service. It is diseased. So sometimes doctors advise that "You have to amputate this finger, otherwise it will affect the whole body." Similarly, we living entities, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, when we rebel, that is our diseased condition. We, when we don't want to render service to the Lord, that is a state which is called demonic state.



*The demonic state... Just like a citizen of this state is part and parcel. A citizen expected to render service to the state, but if he refuses, then he's considered a traitor or a criminal and is put into punishment. Similarly, all the living entities who are in this material world, they have rebelled. They are part and parcel, sons of the Lord, but they have refused to give service under certain condition. It may be... And they are all put into this material world. And in this material world there are different varieties of living entities. So all of them are criminals, maybe first-class criminal, third-class criminals, second-class criminal. Amongst the criminals also, in the prison house, there are divisions. So here those who are materially prosperous, they are also criminals but first-class criminals. That is the difference. And those who are suffering materially, they are also criminals. They are third-class criminals. But all of them-criminals. How they're criminals? Because either one is rich or poor, he's subjected to the tribulations of this material nature. It does not mean that the rich man will not die, but everyone wants to live, either rich man or poor man. It is not that the rich man will not be diseased, but everyone wants to take precaution against disease. No one wants to become diseased, but everyone becomes diseased. Everyone dies. It is not that rich man will not become old and the simply poor man will become old. No. Everyone will become old. It is not that... When a child takes birth, the condition within the womb of the mother, air-tight packed, cannot move*-we forget, but that is a great suffering. The suffering of death, suffering of birth, suffering of disease and suffering of old age-these are imposed on the living entities, those who are criminals. Criminals means revolted against the service of the Lord.

*So we are trying to bring them into practice, how to serve Lord, how to, how to serve the Supreme Lord. That is our movement. It is not patchwork. Other humanitarian societies or welfare societies, they are trying to give some patchwork. They cannot give relief to the stringent laws of nature: birth, death, old age and disease. But we are giving the final cure of the disease of condition of material existence. That is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā: māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. In this material world there are consideration of pious activities or impious activities. By pious activities one gets very good family, birth in very good family, and nice education, beautiful body, janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. Four things: birth either in good nation or in good family, janma; and aiṣvarya means wealth, richness; and ṣruta means education; and śrī means beauty. So this is the consideration of material pious or impious. And impious means just the opposite: birth in abominable species of life, just like cats, dogs, hogs, or uncivilized people, ugly feature, no education. These are consideration, pious or impious. But either you become pious or impious, you cannot get out of these stringent laws of nature: birth, death, disease and old age. So we are educating our students to practice how to revive his old, the eternal constitutional position to serve the Lord. This is our practice. Just like here you can see the boys have decorated the sitting place of the Lord, how nice, with flowers and candles. It is not very expensive, but it is so beautiful that immediately it attracts. You see? So everyone can practice at home. Is it very difficult task, to gather some flowers and some leaves and decorate and have some picture or statue of the Lord, offer Him some fruits, flower? Everyone can do this. And by doing this, he gets the highest perfection of life: no more coming into this material world and suffer all these nonsense. This is our practice.

Then what is the basic idea behind Kṛṣṇa consciousness? That means originally we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa, or God, is my Lord, is my father... Because part and parcel... Just like somebody's children. The children is a part and parcel of the body. Why I love my child? Because he is my part and parcel of this body. I don't love so much other children because they are not part and parcel of my body. This family affection means the family members, they have got with bo..., relationship with my body; therefore he has got the consciousness, "He is my father. He is my mother." And the parents lave consciousness, "They are my child." So they have got some duty. The father wants to see how the children are comfortably raised, and the children also seeing the interest of the father and mother. Just like in family life we have got a certain kind of consciousness, "He's my father. He's my child." Similarly, if we develop our original consciousness, that "God is our father; *we are all children," then the whole trouble ceases. If God is the proprietor of everything and every children has got right to enjoy the God's property, then where is the trouble? For want of this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone is claiming, "This is my property. This is my state. This is my country." Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. Aham means "I," and mama means "mine." This is nonsense. Nothing belongs to you. Everything belongs to God. Everyone has got right to live on God's property. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If everyone is taught this God consciousness, there is no need of this artificial United Nations. We are united by nature. God is the center. Why artificial spending so much money? We are united not only in the human society, but we are united in all living societies, all living entities. Why we should treat the animals as different? Because there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have got my consciousness that "The human beings in America are my brothers, or my countrymen. They should be given all protection." And why not cows? They are also born in America. Why they are being sent to slaughterhouse? Because there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore this partiality, that "Only human being is my brother, and the cows and the other animals, they are not my brother," this is lack of knowledge. But if we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if we take teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ: [Bg. 14.4] "In all species of life, in all forms of life, as many creatures are there, they are all My sons." So how can you treat others as not your brother? They are also your brother. Even the ant is also your brother. He is in a different class of imprisonment, that's all. A different body. The ant has got also the same punishment-birth, death, old age and disease-as you have got. You are also criminal; he is also criminal. But he is also son of God; *you are also son of God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], as soon as he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he becomes joyful because he has no more enemy. "Everyone is my brothers." Therefore he has no fear. If I become enemy to you, you become my enemy. If I am friendly to you, you are my friend. So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person does not see anyone as something other than son of God. He sees not that only this, this person, is son of God and that person is not son of God. This is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Every living entity's son of God; therefore one can love, one can actually have the idea of universal brotherhood, only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not otherwise. Otherwise, they are simply false propaganda.

*Real Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when one achieves, he becomes prasannātmā, joyful. That is the first symptom of becoming full, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Prasannātmā, brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no hankering. He has no lamentation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. This is the highest stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Samaḥ means equality; sarveṣu, "all"; *bhūteṣu, "entities." This is third stage. First stage is joyfulness, second stage is no want, no lamentation, and third stage, to see all living entities on the same... Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. When one is actually learned, he sees... Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. Then he becomes eligible to be a devotee of the Lord. To become devotee of the Lord is not so easy. These are the conditions. The beginning is joyfulness. The second stage: no want, no lamentation. "My father is Kṛṣṇa, so I'll be fully sup..." Just like a child. He knows, "My father is there. I have no want." Everything is there. Prasannātmā. "Why shall I hanker him? My father..." [break] ...is now diseased. He's now lunatic. Similarly, tiger is my brother, but not that because originally he's my brother, I shall go and embrace. No. I shall be careful. But not that I shall kill. Why shall I kill? He's not coming to encroach upon my property. He's living in the jungle. Why shall I go and kill a tiger? This is all nonsense, lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has not done any harm to you. He is living in his own jurisdiction. He is uncivilized. He is ferocious. God has given him direction: "Oh, you live here. You don't go there." That's all right. And why should you go to kill a tiger? He's not coming to encroach him. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should I kill unnecessarily an animal? We have got so many nice foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa has given me grains, fruits, milk. The cows, they are supplying tons of milk, but they are not claiming, "It is my milk. I shall drink." No. It is giving to you, as mother gives. And we are killing cows, killing mothers. This is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So we teach all these things to our students who are going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious (reading:) "ISKCON members talk about serenity, tranquillity and bliss." That is already explained. If I am trained in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then I am a sane man. I am not a madman because I know what is my position, what is God, what are other living entities, what is this world, what is this material nature, what is this time, what are these activities. This knowledge is in full because Kṛṣṇa consciousness teaches all these things, what is God, what you are, and then what is this nature, beyond the nature, what other things are there. Those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they do not know. They are frogs of the well, simply calculating, "This three feet, water, space, is my habitation." And when he's given information of the Atlantic Ocean, he does not believe. "Oh, there is Atlantic Ocean? What is that nonsense?" "Oh, it is very, very big," somebody says. He's simply calculating his well water. "Oh, it may be four foot?" "No, very big." "All right, ten feet? How...?" He's calculating, this. These materialistic scientists, they are simply speculating like the frog in the well. They do not know; neither they have means. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person knows. He gets information from Kṛṣṇa.

athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



"Now, this material world is simply a fractional part of My creation." And what is this material world? This material world, we cannot even estimate one universe, what is the length and breadth and how many planets are there, how they are working. We have no information. And we are very proud of advancement of knowledge. And there are innumerable universes. All taken together, that is called material world. Yasya prabhā prabhavato... [Bs. 5.40].



*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā we get this information: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa. Jagad-aṇḍa means universes. Koṭi means innumerable, hundreds of thousands multiplied by another hundred, hundred, hundred. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that this universe is a grain of mustard seed in the bag of a mustard seeds. Just imagine. Can anyone count what is the number of mustards seeds in a bag, in a one-ton or two-ton bag? Innumerable. It is beyond our experience. But there are so many universes just like packed up in a bag. This is called material world. So what to speak of the spiritual world? The spiritual world is at least three times greater than this material world. That information we get from Bhagavad-gītā. Ekāṁśena sthito... Ekam means one part. Even you take... One part, maybe, one hundred. But even not going so far, one part means divide the whole thing into four parts. That will be one fourth. This material world is only one fourth of the whole creation, and the three-fourth part is spiritual world. In the spiritual world there is similarly innumerable planets, innumerable living entities. Just like, as I have already explained, that this material world is the just like prison house of the criminals. So our criminal department in the state, say, jail or prison house, that is not the countrywise, as big as the country. That is a fractional part only. Maybe a few hundred people or few thousand people living there, but the state is very big. Similarly, the Lord's state is so big, though the criminal living entities are living in a corner only. This material world is in a corner. So what information we can get about God? "God is great," we simply theoretically say, but we do not know how great it is, He is, and how His greatness is working. That we do not know. But Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, because they are getting knowledge from Kṛṣṇa directly, they have got all this knowledge. Therefore their knowledge is perfect.

*(reading:) "If one were to begin to study ISKCON techniques, what would he have to give up?" Give up... Give up means... First give up is that "I am this material body." The nonsense idea that "I am this body," that is the root of all misunderstanding. So he has to give up this bodily consciousness. That is naturally. That is the beginning of teachings of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Bhagavad-gītā teaches Arjuna. Arjuna was overwhelmed of family affection, that "How can I fight with my members of the family? They are my brothers..." So this conception, bodily conception, was first of all eradicated in the Bhagavad-gītā. He lectured... Arjuna was talking, arguing with Kṛṣṇa, that "If I kill my family, male members, the female members will be without husband, and they will be polluted, and there will be unwanted children and this on...," so many, as far as one can, materialistic person can think. So he was talking like that as very man of wisdom. So Kṛṣṇa first of all chastised him*-not in the beginning, because in the beginning there was friendly talk, but when Arjuna surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa that "You don't take me as Your friend. I accept You as my spiritual master. So You teach me." This relationship of spiritual master and student... The student is called śiṣya. Śiṣya, the Sanskrit word śiṣya, this word comes from the root śas. Śas means ruling. From śas, the śāstra. Śāstra means authoritative books. They have been derived. And śastra. Śastra means weapons, armaments. That is called śastra. Just like sword, guns, they are called śastra. These two things are rulings. The state has got lawbooks, authoritative books, and one who does not obey the lawbooks, then the next word is gun and sword. This, these two words, means to accept authority. So śiṣya means one who accepts the authority of the spiritual master. He voluntarily accepts the rulings or the punishment of the spiritual master. That is called śiṣya. One voluntarily agrees to the spiritual master... This initiation is going on. This is the beginning of voluntary acceptance of the spiritual master. That means he agrees that he will abide by the orders of the spiritual master. This is called acceptance of spiritual master. Śiṣya. Śiṣya means voluntarily accepting the ruling. Everyone is free. If I give you some ruling, why should you accept it? Therefore this formal initiation ceremony is performed. He promises, "My dear sir, I shall abide by your order." So Kṛṣṇa was accepted by Arjuna as spiritual master just to teach him what is the actual duty in that warfield. So at that time the first śiṣya, śāsana, ruling: He chastised Arjuna by these words, "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like a very learned man, but no learned man talks like this." That means "You are a fool." He very politely said that "You are talking with Me as if you are very learned man, but your subject matter is so third-class that no learned man takes this subject matter very seriously." What is that? Bodily conception of life. "You are talking just like a very learned man, but your center of activity is the body. So this is not a learn..., symptom of a learned man."

*So if we take this crucial test of learning, we shall find hardly a learned man in this world, hardly one man, because everyone is absorbed in this bodily conception of life. All their ideas*-this nationality, humanity, this duty, that duty, all-everything on this. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. They are accepting this bag of skin and bones as self. You see? This is a bag made of skin and bone, and this... Is spirit soul so cheap thing that it is a bag of skin and bone and some stools and urine, combination? That is nonsense. So hardly you'll find any sane man or any learned man in this world. You see? So first teaching is that "You are not this body." That is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa's teaching.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



"My dear Arjuna, you are posing yourself as very learned man, but a learned man is not disturbed by this change of body." Just He says very nice example. Just like a child. A child is growing. Growing means he is changing body. A child is born so small; *a few years, he becomes big. Now where is that small body? That body is gone. You tell whatever you think, but that body is gone*-another body. Then the same child becomes youth, young man. That body is gone. The same man becomes old man. That, that youthful body is gone. So every second the body is gone, but the soul is there. Anyone knows... You can remember; I can remember. When I was child, I remember I was doing this. And where is that body? That body is gone, but I am remain... Why I am remaining? Because I am eternal. I have changed my body, but I am there. Similarly, when I change this body, still I'll be there. This is knowledge. This is nir(?) condition. If in this, during this life, I am changing so many body, so many bodies, still I am there, similarly, it is natural conclusion: when I change this body, I shall remain. I may be in another body. This simple logic is sufficient for a sane man to understand that living soul is eternal; the body is artificial, dress. By changing dress, one does not die. He is eternal.



*So, (reading:) "Is the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa the answer to living successfully in today's world?" Oh, that is the only successful living in this, today's world. So long people do not understand it, they are still in the darkness. This is the only. Why it is the only? Just see these boys, these girls. I have not imported from India. I came here single*-handed with seven dollars. I have got hundreds of students like that. How they have changed, their character, their behavior. I have given them life. Some of them are married. They are living very nicely. They have got children, and they have given up their all bad habits. You see? They are not, I mean to say, eating meat. They have no illicit sex life. They are strictly vegetarian. They are preparing nice foodstuff from vegetable and grains. They do not take part, intoxication. They do not smoke even. Just see practically. If everyone becomes like them, then what is the trouble? If you encourage them to indulge in illicit sex life, to become intoxicants, to gambler and eating everything, without any discrimination, then how you can expect to have very good men in this world? They are mad. So this question, that "Is this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa the answer to living successfully in today's...?" What do you mean by "successfully living"? Successfully living does not mean that you work hard just like cats and dogs, and eat something and have sex life at night. That is not successful life. That successful life is there even in the cats and dogs and hogs. The hogs are also laboring very hard. The cats and dogs, they are also for their food. And the sex is there. Everything is there. That is not successful life. Real successful life is how to understand his real constitutional position as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. That is successful life. This is not successful life. What is this successful life? I see... I have got so many students. They are well-qualified. But they have got... When they work, they have to work so hard, they go at six o'clock to the working and comes again at six o'clock, all day, tired. They lost all vitality, all sense. Is that successful life, simply for one morsel of food, working so hard? And unless one works so hard, he cannot eat. We have created a civilization that one must earn thousands of dollars, then he can live like a gentleman. Is that successful life? And for earning that thousands of dollars he has to work so hard, just like animal, beast. No. That is not successful life. Successful life is that, that we should make our bodily necessities of life as far as required, not more than that. I want to eat something. God has given sufficient food. You grow. You live anywhere. You grow foodstuff. You grow grains. You grow fruits. You grow vegetables. Keep cows. Take milk. You can live anywhere. You haven't got to go fifty miles off with a car to attend your office at six o'clock with velocity of hundred miles' speed. Is that successful life, do you think? So where is successful life? We are proposing successful life.

*So whatever you do, you just become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and at least he will feel that "I am... My future hope is there. There is Kṛṣṇa." That is successful life. At least he is hopeful that he is going to Kṛṣṇa. Even he is working very hard, never mind. "I have been put into this condition of life." So that is successful life. At least one life, anyway, passed on. Kṛṣṇa gives him assurance that one who understands the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa... Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who simply understands what is Kṛṣṇa, then his privilege is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: [Bg. 4.9] "He does not take any more birth in this material world." Then where does he go? Mām eti: "He comes to Me." Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Even if you don't serve Him, but Kṛṣṇa is so attractive. As soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to serve Him. You see? It is so nice. That is successful life. This is not successful life. This is unsuccessful life, laboring whole life, and he does not know where he is going. Next life, what is, whether cat or dog or animal or this or that, he does not know. He's in the darkness. Adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. The same repetition of same foolishness and uncontrolled senses, he does not know where he is going. Just like unbridled horses. The man does not know "Where the horses are dragging me, either in the hell or heaven? I do not know." But the horses are not controlled, under his con..., simply running, high speed. That these motorcars are running this way and that way. They do not know whether they will reach their destination. Any, at any point, they may be striking each other and finished. This is not successful life. Successful life means one should have peaceful life, with great hope, future hope, without any disturbance. What is successful life? Even a man is not secure. He does not know when he goes to his office whether his household things are taken away by some thief. You see? Where is success? Successful life means he must feel secure that the government is taking care of everything. That is successful life. He has no cares and anxieties. He's simply developing his spiritual life. That is successful life.

*(reading:) "How much does this course of study cost?" It costs nothing. If you simply come here, you understand everything. We don't charge anything. But they will not come. They go to a rascal who will charge fifty dollars for meeting and all talk nonsense. They'll go there. And because we are not charging anything, they are not attracted. You see? But how we can charge? We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that "You speak," so we are speaking. That's all. Why should we charge? But if somebody, out of sympathy, gives us something, we don't refuse. But we have no cost. We are working ourself as far as possible and maintaining ourself, but anyone who comes, we don't charge anything. We have got volumes of books. I have translated six books, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, and one book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, one book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Some of the books are there. You can see. So there are so many books, immense knowledge. So it is not very costly. We charging very low price, just to printing charges. If somebody wants to purchase, we have got our magazine, monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. But if one does not pay, the same thing we are repeating daily in our meeting. Also he can come and hear. God has given him the ear, and he can learn. So there is no cost. There is no official cost. (reading:) "How much does this course of study cost?" We don't charge anything.

*(reading:) "What should one know about Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Is it something mystical?" No mystical. No bluffing. You are part and parcel of God. Who can deny it? There is no secrecy. As you are part and parcel of your father*-God is the supreme father-so you are the part and parcel of your father, and it is your duty to love God. So what is the secrecy and what is the mystical? We don't teach that you press your nose, you put your head, you go up and down. Nothing required. Simply to know that "God is my father; *I am His eternal son. My duty is to love Him," that's all. There is no secrecy. There is no so*-called bluff or mystical, this or that. It is simple truth. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. God is teaching that "You simply surrender unto Me, My dear son. Why you are independently...?" Just like here is one of my students. His father is a very big doctor. But he said, "My dear son, you come home." He's very moneyed man. He can give him some few hundred thousands of dollars. "But you don't go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is his view. Similarly, as the father is claiming from the son, "My dear son, you just surrender unto me. I shall give you my wealth, my everything," similarly, God is also canvassing us, "My dear sons, why you are unnecessarily traveling here and making plans to be happy here, nonsense place? You just surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: [Bg. 18.66] "I shall give you all protection." Father is always ready to give son all protection. That is natural. So we are all sons of God. We simply surrender to Him and the business finished. Then where is the mystical and this or that? There is nothing secret. So simply one has to agree. But if the rascal son does not agree: "Oh, why shall I surrender unto Him? I shall remain independent," all right, you remain independent. You remain and suffer. So there is no mystical. Everything is clear.

(reading:) "ISKCON members speak knowingly of happiness. Don't followers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness ever get angry?" Yes. They can get angry. Why not? They're very much angry to the nondevotees: "You rascal! Why you have not, are not surrendering yourself to God? You rascal." Yes. We are angry. This anger is service of Kṛṣṇa. How can I give up anger? But we use anger in a different way, not for our sense gratification: "Why you have not paid me such and such money?" No, we don't say like that. "Why you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious?" That is our anger. So the anger can be utilized in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything can be utilized in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should I give up anger? Kṛṣṇa is also angry, and I am son of Kṛṣṇa. So anger is in me because I have got the qualities of my father. So how can I give up anger? But I use anger only for Kṛṣṇa. So we do not leave anything, but we utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. So (reading:) "Don't followers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness ever get angry?" Yes, we get angry. Why not? We are not artificial. Human nature is to become anger, sometimes satisfied, sometimes... So we utilize this. We are angry when one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, when he's against God.

*(reading:) "Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had a plan to start teaching the people at sixteen..." Well now, we can teach even a child, without waiting for sixteen. We can teach even... Today this boy's wife has not come. We have got a little child, his daughter. Only one and a half years... She's also learning how to bow down, how to eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, how to clap during kīrtana. There is no question of waiting for sixteen years. That is artificial. That is artificial. Why one should...? Who knows? Who will live up to sixteen years? Begin immediately. Begin immediately. You have got this chance of human form of life. That is the duty of the father and mother. All right, here is a child. Let him take a little prasādam. All right. Little beginning. And it is simple. Why one should wait for sixteen years or sixteen or thirty*-two years? No, there is no waiting. Immediately. (reading:) "Will ISKCON accept people this young?" Oh, yes, we, younger, even younger. Even one child is within the womb of his mother, we can teach. It is so nice thing. The instance is Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was in his womb of his mother, one saintly sage taught his mother about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and the child became Kṛṣṇa conscious from the womb of his mother. So we can teach even in the womb of the mother because it is spiritual. It is not material. No material condition can check this teaching. Ahaituky apratihatā. That is the highest perfectional system of religion which is unchecked and develops love of Godhead. That is first-class religion, not under any condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without being checked. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not such thing that because one is child, he cannot learn; because one is blind, he cannot learn; because one is poor, therefore he cannot... Because one is rich... No condition, anyone, simply he must be a living entity, that's all. He must not be a dead stone. If he has got life, he can learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is so simple and so nice.

*(reading:) "What is the significance of the food that is eaten at ISKCON kīrtanas?" The significance of our food: not exactly vegetarian or nonvegetarian. Don't mistake. We simply take what is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So Kṛṣṇa can be offered anything? No. Just like if some guest comes to your house, you ask, "How can I serve you? What foodstuff you'll like to eat?" He says, "I like this." "All right." Similarly, we are order*-carrier of Kṛṣṇa. We ask Kṛṣṇa, "What do You want to eat?" And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "Give me vegetable, fruits, liquids. I shall be very much pleased." So we offer Kṛṣṇa fruits, grains, milk, and their preparation. They're very nice. If you come here and eat with us, you'll forget meat-eating. You see? It is so nice. So our proposition is not that vegetarian-nonvegetarian. Vegetarian or nonvegetarian, it is not very important thing. Vegetable has got also life. It does not mean that one man is eating meat; *therefore he is killing. But even vegetarians, they are also killing. But our process is... We... Killing is not very important or nonimportant for us. If Kṛṣṇa says, "Kill," we can kill. If Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't kill," we don't kill. Because we are simply order*-carrier. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was posing himself by his family relationship that he's very perfect, nonviolent gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa induced him to fight, to kill the other party. So for us, killing or nonkilling is not very important thing because everyone is killing, knowingly or unknowingly. So our point is we take foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa, and whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, that is our foodstuff. We distribute that thing.

*(reading:) "Does ISKCON believe in reincarnation?" Well, this, there is no question of belief. It is a fact. I have already explained that the child, a small child, is reincarnating from one body to another, one body to another, one body to another. So similarly, the final change is called reincarnation. So there is no question of believe. It is a fact. Only the blind man, he cannot see it. Believe means it may be fact or not fact*-I blindly believe. That is another thing. Here is a science. "One plus one equal to two." Just like that. This body changes, this body changes, this body changes, and the living entity's there, everywhere. Therefore every moment the reincarnation is going on, every second. What is the question of believe? It is a fact.

*(reading:) "Why are Kṛṣṇa students given spiritual name?" So just to remember Kṛṣṇa. We... Suppose... This boy is Gary. So I've given him the name of Gaurasundara. Gaurasundara is Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So at least he chants... At least, when I ask him, "Gaurasundara," then I get the opportunity of chanting Lord's name. You see? Because our process is chanting. So if my students, my son, my friends, they are all in God's name, then I chant always. This is the significance. I ask him, "Gaurasundara." I ask him, "Vāmanadeva." I ask her, "Govinda dāsī." That means I am chanting. Harer nāma iva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. My business is to chant the name of the Lord. So they are giving me chance to utter the name of the Lord. And, besides that, there is another affix: "dāsa." "Gaurasundara dāsa," "Vāmana dāsa." Dāsa means servant. He also remembers that "I am servant of Gaura, Lord Gaurāṅga," "I am servant of Lord Vāmana," "I am maidservant of Govinda." So... And friend, Sudāmā was a friend of Kṛṣṇa. So "I am the servant of Kṛṣṇa's friend, Sudāmā dāsa." So in this way our relationship with Kṛṣṇa we always remember. That remembrance is also self*-realization process. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23]. Smaraṇam, memorizing, by context. As soon as I utter, "Sudāmā," I immediately remember, "Sudāmā was a friend of Kṛṣṇa." So I remember Kṛṣṇa. Reference to the context. So therefore this is offered, spiritual name.

*(reading:) "What are ISKCON's future plans here? Will a temple be built?" Yes, temple is already there. Here is a temple. Unfortunately, nobody coming. What can I do? We are prepared to give this nice philosophy to everyone. There is no necessity of creating a very huge building as temple. We can sit anywhere and carry this Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa and keep there and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is a temple. We don't require any huge building. You see? Temple means wherever there is God, that is temple. What is the difference between temple, church, and ordinary house? Temple means where there is God. Or church, where there is God. God means where there is God's name. Because in this condition we cannot see God, but God is not different from His name. So wherever the chanting is there, that is temple. And if other rules and regulations are followed, then it is temple. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. It is said, Lord says, that "I stay there. Wherever My pure devotees are glorifying Me, I stay there." God is everywhere, but particularly He is there. So temple, there is no necessity. But if somebody has got money and if he wants to spend it for Kṛṣṇa, then we can give plan, a very nice temple, you see, spending millions of dollars. We have got such ideas and such plans. But that does not mean that we are depending on a temple. We can create temple anywhere and everywhere simply by sitting, chanting.

So last question: "If so, where?" So there is no particular place where we have to start our temple. Anywhere we can start temple. If we start... We are starting temple daily, either in the beach, or underneath a tree, or anywhere. But for special purpose this temple is already there. So people are welcome and hear this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy and takes benefit out of it. That's all.

Thank you. (end)



690330LE.HAW

Lecture

-

Hawaii, March 30, 1969



(Gaurasundara lectures for about 25 minutes, then asks for questions)

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can question about the speaking.



Guest: Could you elaborate a little bit on the point of debate of Kṛṣṇa manifesting everything, and therefore He's attractive?



*Gaurasundara: Well, the point is, Kṛṣṇa is the fountainhead of everything*-everything, what you can conceive and what you can't conceive. And that relationships stands for every entity. Therefore He is all-attractive because He has everything.



*Guest: He's all*-attractive because He is the source?



Gaurasundara: Yes. Any desirable quality is perfect in Him; *therefore He is all*-attractive.



*Prabhupāda: How a man becomes attractive? First of all we have to understand that. Suppose a very rich man is attractive, a very intelligent man is attractive, a beautiful man is attractive, a famous man is attractive, a wise man is attractive, a renounced man is also attractive. These are attractive features. So if we analyze Kṛṣṇa, we find all these six opulences of attractive men fully present in Kṛṣṇa. So even from historical references, there is not a single person who can be compared with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is all*-attractive. And everything that we experience, that is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. His energies are differently manifested. Similarly, in Viṣṇu Purāṇa also, it is said, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis tathaiva akhilaṁ jagat. Akhilaṁ jagat means the whole cosmic manifestation is a display of the multi-energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So because He is fully energetic, therefore He is attractive and the cause of all causes. These are the evidences of Vedic literatures. And when He was actually present, He was attractive in so many features. In the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, when He was speaking the Bhagavad-gītā, the speech which He delivered, although He is not present now in our vision, you cannot find in the whole world such attractive speech of wisdom. Nobody can say. What we have got, practical experience, about His speech, which is still going on, still we are trying to understand. The greatest scholars of the world, the philosophers, they are trying to understand Bhagavad-gītā. There were many, many great scholars and saintly persons all over India, but each and every one of them have tried to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Even Professor Einstein, he was reading Bhagavad-gītā.



*So His attractiveness is evidently presented by the wisdom of Bhagavad*-gītā. So He is all-attractive. There is no doubt about it. And in the Vedic literature we also understand: tasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati: "If you can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or the Absolute Truth, then sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati, you can understand everything, how it is working." Because everything is display of His energy. So if you can understand how His energy is acting, then you can understand the whole cosmic manifestation. That is explained in the Vedic literature. Just like in our presence we have got practical experience, the sun. The whole material world is maintained by sunlight. The planets are rotating by the heat of sunlight; the vegetation, the water, everything is being conducted by the sunlight. It is by scorching sunlight the water is evaporated from the sea. It is formed into gas, cloud, and it is distributing all over the land. Then vegetation is coming, and it is becoming green, yellow, many colorful. So actually, the sun is the cause of all material manifestations. So if anyone can study what is sun, then he can understand how everything is appearing. That is practical.

Similarly, sun is also not ultimate cause. The ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam means "the cause of all causes." And the sun is described as the eye of Kṛṣṇa. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām.



*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

*rājā samasta (sura*-mūrtir) aśeṣa-tejaḥ

*yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro...



*The sun is so powerful that it is the life of every planet. Without sunlight, nobody can see anything. We are very much proud of testing everything by seeing: "I want to see." Now that seeing power is resting on the sunlight. Without sunlight, your eyes are useless. Therefore sun is the eyes for all planets. All planets means all the residents of each and every planet. Yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtiḥ. Therefore he is the king of all planets. These are described in Brahma-saṁhitā. Aśeṣa-tejaḥ, unlimited potencies or unlimited heat. There is no limit how much heat is there in the sun globe. So that sun also rotating. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. That sun is also rotating under the guidance of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. The sun is rotating; *it has got its orbit. It is rotating sixteen thousand miles per second. It is rotating. That you cannot deny. These are facts described. So somebody has arranged how the sun is rotating. Just like your sputnik rotates in the space by the scientist who is playing on the electronic machines in the laboratory, and the sputnik is rotating. So why don't you think that the sun is also rotating under some guidance? How you can deny it? So that is explained in the Brahma*-saṁhitā: yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. It has also a lifetime duration. As soon as that lifetime duration is finished...



*Now, now, who gave him this lifetime duration, this movement? Just like Śrīman Gaurasundara began his speech, that without pushing on, without being moved by somebody else, nothing can move. So He is also moving. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Therefore He is there.(?) We must know how He is acting. Simply by understanding the word "Kṛṣṇa," you do not... We must know thoroughly how Kṛṣṇa is acting. That is all explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we study Bhagavad-gītā very carefully, as it is, we can understand. Tasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you can simply understand the Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa philosophy, then you understand everything. It is so perfect. [break] ...question you can put. [break] Now, modern-days people are very much attracted by scientific knowledge. Oh, there is complete scientific knowledge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you want to understand, even from scientific point of view, these boys will be able to answer you. [break] ...question, then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



690409LE.NY

Śrīla Prabhupāda and Disciples Speak

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New York, April 9, 1969



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So today you speak something, I shall hear. Yes. Any of you can speak something from Śikṣāṣṭaka? Yes? Stand up.



Viṣṇujana: "Glory to Śrī Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years together. And thus the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death, is extinguished. Such saṅkīrtana movement gives the essence of all nectar of transcendental bliss and helps us to have a taste of that full nectarean for which always anxious we are." So this is the mercy you have given us, this saṅkīrtana movement, that every day, ten hours a day, we can chant the holy name of God right out on the street, and everyone who sees and hears is learning about Lord Caitanya, is learning about the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and is practically engaged in devotion.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Ṛṣi Kumāra, you can speak something? Yes.



Ṛṣi Kumāra: In the Vedic literatures it is stated that there are 8,400,000 species of life that one can take in this material world. So we've come to this human form, taken this human body, and it's such a great opportunity for realizing the purpose of life. We're so fortunate that Prabhupāda has come to teach us this process of realizing our self in this human form. So take advantage of this causeless mercy which Kṛṣṇa has sent us.



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hm. There is a verse by Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam apāyayan mām anabhīpsum andhaṁ kṛpāmbudhir yas tam aham... [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Sanātanam... Kṛpāmbudhir yas sanātanaṁ prabhu tam aham āśrayaḥ. Like that. Sanātana... Six Gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī. So Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was a very rich man's son and he was youngest. All the Gosvāmīns used to treat him as younger brother. So he's writing his realization, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam. This bhakti-yogam, devotional service, is..., another name is vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā means... Vairāgya means renunciation. We are now caught up by this material body, and we have to get out.



*So this process of getting out is noncooperation. That is called vairāgya-vidyā. So Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī says that "I was unwilling to accept this vairāgya-vidyā, but He forced me to take it." And... Apāyayan mām anabhīpsum andham: "Because I was blind, I thought that this material world is everything. Therefore I was blind. And therefore I was unwilling also." People are unwilling to accept the Kṛṣṇa consciousness because they are blind. They do not see actual position of their life. That is the position (of) conditioned soul. They are busy simply for sense gratification. So vairāgya-vidyā means not sense gratification, but to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam: [Cc. Madhya 19.170] to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa. Material life means satisfying our own senses, and vairāgya-vidyā, or devotional service, means satisfying Kṛṣṇa's senses. That's all. What is the difference between material so-called love and Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa love? The difference is, in the material world, both the parties, they are trying to satisfy their own senses. It doesn't matter. When a boy loves a girl or a girl loves a boy, the motive is his or her own sense satisfaction. But the gopīs, their view is... Not only gopīs. All the cowherds boys, mother Yaśodā, Nanda Mahārāja, the Vṛndāvana party. So all of them-ready to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when He was a boy, His father was arranging for Indra-yajña. Kṛṣṇa said, "My dear father, there is no need of arranging for Indra-yajña. Better you offer these materials to Govardhana Hill." The father answered, "My dear boy, if You want to offer some sacrifice to the Govardhana Hill, I shall arrange for another yajña. This is our custom. We are observing this traditionally. So let us perform this." Kṛṣṇa said, "No, there is no need." The old man immediately rejected, "All right. Kṛṣṇa, to satisfy Kṛṣṇa." The old tradition immediately gave up. And Indra saw, "Oh, this boy is so impudent. He has stopped my yajña. All right, I shall teach something."

So there was torrents of rain, heavy rain, for seven days in Vṛndāvana, and Kṛṣṇa took up that Govardhana Hill on the little finger of His left hand and kept it for seven days in this way. (referring to picture?) Where is that Govardhana Hill? Is that Govardhana Hill? No. Inside, yes. No, no. No, there is no need. Yes. So Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that even when He was seven years old He could raise the hill, Govardhana Hill, on the top of His little finger, left hand, like this. So we worship such kind of God. Yes. Who can... (chuckles) We don't want petty gods. You see. We want God like that. Yes. When He was on the lap of His mother and the Pūtanā came to kill Him by sucking her breast, so Kṛṣṇa sucked her breast and life both. This is Kṛṣṇa. God is not made, manufactured, that by meditation one becomes God. "First of all he was dog; now he has become God." It is not like that. God is God from the very beginning, always God. Whether He is a small baby or He's young man or... God never becomes old man.

*So Kṛṣṇa showed all these demonstrations just to attract us. Just to let us know what is God. You are puzzled about God, you are speculating. Somebody is saying, "There is no God." Somebody is saying, "There is this, there is that." But here is actual God. So you see. And if you want God, then "Come on. I have come to take you back, back to home, back to Godhead." So this same thing is still going on. If you want to go to God, you can go. There is no hindrance. But if you want at all, then there is way, this Bhagavad*-gītā. And the way is very simple. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. Simply you become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and always pray to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays, hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-yuta: "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Mahārāja Nanda, now You are standing before me with Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of Vṛṣabhānu." Hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-suta, karuṇā karoho ei-bāro: "Many lives I have wasted in this material encagement. Life after life, I was frustrated and baffled. Now, this life I am dedicated unto You." Hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu, karuṇā karoho ei: "Now You become merciful. You are already merciful, but due to my forgetfulness, rebellious condition of life, I did not surrender unto You. Now I have come to my senses." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. "After many, many births, so I surrender unto You. Please give me Your protection." This much. That's all. There is no necessity. Of course, not in the beginning, but actually, one who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa fully, without any reservation, his life is perfect. That's all.

So keep this attitude of surrendering and then everything will come, perfection. And this remembrance also will be kept by chanting the mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Prabhati, Prabhati(?) should... Morning tune. Yes. (kīrtana) (end)



690411LE.NY

Lecture Excerpt

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New York, April 11, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...society. Lokānāṁ hita*-kāriṇau. So loka-hitam. Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ [SB 2.1.1]. Varīyān means glorify; eṣa, this; praśnaḥ, question; kṛtaḥ, what you have done; *loka*-hitam, the best welfare activities. This kind of question and answer. And not only that. One may say that "In your society, you are talking something of Kṛṣṇa. That is your hobby. You may take pleasure." Because everyone has got some, his hobby. But it is not like hobby. Not only loka-hitam, it is said ātmavit-sammataḥ. It is approved by the transcendentalists. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna says that "You are accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Not that because I am Your friend, out of my whims or affection I am talking of You as the Supreme Personality. You are accepted by such great sages like Nārada, Vyāsa, Asita." Great stalwarts, Vedic scholars.



*So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all Vedic scholars. Not only in the bygone ages, just like Nārada, Vyāsa, but in the recent ages, within, say, one thousand years. Within one thousand years, there happened to be many great scholars, just like Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. They were very, very learned scholars. They have accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Person... Even Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya is more than one thousand years ago. Śaṅkarācārya's time is just after Buddha's age. Buddha, 2,500. Śaṅkarācārya, about 1,500 years ago. He also accepted. Although he was impersonalist, he accepted, sa bhagavān svayam kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has come, has descended as the son of Vasudeva and Devakī." He has clearly mentioned. Because one may not misunderstand, "This Kṛṣṇa may be different." But he has specif... Just like identification. If you go to the court, you give your identification by your father's name. So Śaṅkarācārya has given identification of Kṛṣṇa by His father's name, by His mother's name. Devakī vasudevāsya. We also say Devakī*-nandana, Vasudeva. So ātmavit-sammataḥ. It must be approved by great ācāryas. We are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness not by whims. It is approved by great ācāryas. We are following their footsteps. That's all. That is our business. Ātmavit tattva, ātmavit-sammataḥ. And then puṁsām, for the people in general, śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ. They have got many subject matter for hearing, ordinary people. But this subject matter, hearing of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is the, śrotavyādi... Whatever subject matter you have got for hearing, this is the topmost. This is the topmost. Śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ.

So he's beginning, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is beginning to talk about Kṛṣṇa, and this book is The First Step in God Realization. How, for ordinary common men, how one can realize God, these things will be described. We shall describe.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



690412LE.NY

Lecture Excerpt

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New York, April 12, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...how to love God. It is not our proposition that you are Christian, you become Hindu, or you are Muhammadan, you become Christian, increase our numerical strength. We don't want. We don't want any numerical strength. We want one sincere person who has learned to love God, Kṛṣṇa. That's all. I have come to your country with this mission, and if I find one or two boys or girls sincerely have learned how to love God, Kṛṣṇa, then my mission is successful. I'm not after any number of... Because if I can turn one soul to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he'll do tremendous work, because he'll be fire. You see? He can do tremendous work. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca taraḥ sahasrasaḥ. One moon is complete to drive away the darkness of night, not millions of stars required. What these millions of stars can do? One moon is sufficient. So our propaganda is to create one moon. You see? But fortunately, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, many moonlike boys and girls have come to me. You see? Many moons. (chuckles) I was thinking of having only one moon, but Kṛṣṇa... I am hopeful that there are many moons, and in future they'll be doing very nice. This is para*-upakāra. To spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the best service to the humanity. Please try to understand this. It is not a bluffing thing. To love God, premā pumartho mahān... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that the highest achievement in the human form of life is to attain perfectional stage to love God. That is the highest. Not dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90].



People are after becoming religious person or economically very well situated person or desiring all facilities for sense gratification. And when one is frustrated in all these attempts, he wants to become God. You see? By meditation, he wants to become God. You see? God is not so cheap thing that simply by meditation one can become God. People do not know what is God; *therefore they accept. Just in Los Angeles airport, one boy was asking, some person in your country is declaring himself as God, Meher Baba. So he asked him..., asked me, "Whether you accept Meher Baba as incarnation?" So I asked him, "What do you mean by incarnation?" So he replied that because Kṛṣṇa or God is everyone's heart, therefore everyone is incarnation. Then he... I said, "Then what is difficulty? Then we are all incarnation. What is the specific quality of Meher Baba?" Because īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. The Lord is situated in everyone's heart. The Lord is situated in the heart of cats and dogs also. Sarva-bhūtānām. Sarva-bhūtānām means all living entities. It is not that God is not situated in the cat's heart or dog's heart. He is there. Therefore he is also incarnation. If that is the formula... These impersonalists... Because... Just like in Ramakrishna mission, they say, "Because Nārāyaṇa is in everyone's heart, therefore everyone is Nārāyaṇa." This is not very good logic. Even Nārāyaṇa or God, He is omnipotent, omnipresent, He can be present everywhere, that does not mean everyone is God. This is not very good logic. Anyway, then when I asked him that "If everyone is incarnation, then what is the speciality of Meher Baba?" Then, "He knows more than others." Then next reply is that somebody may be more than Meher Baba. So if you go on searching like that, you will find Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is greater than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is the Supreme. By logic. You go on by logic. If everyone is incarnation and if everyone, out of many, one who is still more advanced, he is accepted as God, then you have to search more-if there is any other person who is greater than that person.

*That has been searched in Vedic literature by Lord Brahma, and he said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: "We have searched out all types of gods, all types of gods, but the Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa." "Everyone is God," that's nice. But there is bigger God and little God also. So if you go on searching after bigger God, bigger God, bigger God, when you come to Kṛṣṇa you'll find nobody bigger than Him. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nasti. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, Kṛṣṇa said that "Nobody is greater than Me." And actually when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, there was no contemporary who was greater than Kṛṣṇa. Neither even at the present moment, there is anyone who can claim that "I am greater than Kṛṣṇa." In opulence... Greatness in six kinds of opulences: in richness, in reputation, in strength, in beauty, in wisdom, and in renunciation. If you analyze, you'll find nobody is greater than Kṛṣṇa even in material richness. Everyone wants to become rich, to have a nice family, nice wife, good bank balance, a nice house. But Kṛṣṇa married 16,108 wives. Is there any history, any instance? And each wife had a palace which did not require any lightening, electricity. It was jewel-bedecked. So at night, by the light of the jewel it was brilliant. So these description are there. And 16,100 palaces. And not only that. Nārada wanted to see how Kṛṣṇa is enjoying His family life, so he entered each and every palace, and he saw Kṛṣṇa is present there with His wife. That means He was enjoying, expanding Himself in 16,000. Not that one wife is lamenting, "Oh, my husband is not here. He is in that apartment or that palace." No. She is satisfied that Kṛṣṇa is there. This is called opulence. Compare His opulence. And so much strength is concerned, from when He was a child on the lap of His mother, He killed a great demon, Pūtanā-twelve miles long when she fell down.

*So God is not created by such artificial meditation. God is God. Just like chemically you cannot produce gold. Gold is gold. Iron is iron. Law of identification. So His opulence, His strength, His reputation... His reputation, taking Kṛṣṇa as a great personality, I don't think any personality in this world is existing who is so reputed as Kṛṣṇa from historical point of view, five thousand years past. You may... "Kṛṣṇa was Indian. He is famous in India." No. Kṛṣṇa is famous in every country all over the world for His Bhagavad*-gītā. You'll find Kṛṣṇa's name in the dictionary also. So in reputation nobody can compete, in wealth nobody can compete, in strength nobody can compete, in wisdom... Take Bhagavad-gītā. Such a book of wisdom, knowledge. There is no comparison in the world. Take it philosophically or religiously or any way, there is no comparison. And renunciation. When Kṛṣṇa was present, His Yadu dynasty consisted of many hundreds of thousands members. And before His departure He finished them and went away. Renunciation. So my request to you all, that don't accept God very cheaply. If you don't like God, that's nice. That's not... Nobody is blaming you. But don't accept a false God. That will be great blunder. Don't do that. Try to understand actually what is God. And the man who is claiming, "I am God," whether he has got such qualification. That can be tested by only three, six things. Try-whether he's richest than all the people of his contemporary life. Is he the richest than all? Or is he the strongest man than all? Or is he the most reputed person than all? Or is he most beautiful? Or most wise? You have to test like that. Don't accept cheaply if some rascal comes, "I am God," and "Yes." Don't do it. You test like this. Test in six symptoms: wealth, strength, reputation, wisdom, beauty, and renunciation. If he excels... [break] ...in all these qualification all other contemporary persons, then he's God. Very simple description. If he is God, then who can be richer than him? And who can be stronger than him? These six things, six opulences.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇām iti bhagaṅganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



Bhagavān. Bhagavān means... Bhaga means fortune. So Bhagavān. Vān means possessing fortune. So these are the symptoms of becoming fortunate: wealthy, strong, wise, beautiful, reputed, and at the same time, renouncer, without any attachment. These things are to be tested. So don't accept cheap God, or don't try to imitate God, "I am God." This is a great, what is called, standard of ignorance. Anyone falsely claiming that "I am God," that is the last snare of māyā, that one is falsely claiming God.



*So our students in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, wherever it is possible, try to preach this principle. God is not so cheap that any rascal can come and claim that "I am God," or anyone can claim as God. This is most foolish claim. Our Vedic literature gives hundreds and thousands of description how God is to be understood. In the Upaniṣad it is stated, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief amongst the living entities. He is the chief amongst the eternals. How He is chief? He is one. God is one. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is one living entity, supreme living entity, and He is supplying the necessities of all other living entities. That is God*-whether He is supplying necessities of all other living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Similarly, there are many descriptions about God. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. Jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. In each universe there is a chief man, just like Lord Brahmā. Just like in your country the chief man is the president, Mr. Nixon, similarly, in this universe the chief man is Lord Brahmā. And in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, Brahmā's age you cannot calculate even one day. He's living so long a duration of life. But he's not independent. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. His life, his duration life, although so long, still, it is said that that life is only a breathing period of Lord Mahā-Viṣṇu. Niśvasita-kālam. Just like we are breathing, exhaling and inhaling, coming out and again taking. So when Mahā-Viṣṇu exhales, all the universes coming, and when He inhales, it goes again within. And the duration of Brahma's life you can calculate.

*So that God, that Mahā*-Viṣṇu, is stated (He) is one portion of the portion of Kṛṣṇa. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ viṣṇur mahān [Bs. 5.48]. He is called Mahā-Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo. This Mahā-Viṣṇu is portion of the portion of Kṛṣṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. In this way, there are different description of God, how great He is. That greatness cannot be had by any nonsense rascal. You see. So don't be misled in that way. Even you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, don't be misled by cheap Gods. That is our request. God is great, and try to understand how great He is. That description you'll get in Vedic literature sufficiently, how great He is. Don't be satisfied simply by understanding that God is great. That's nice, but as far as possible try to understand how great He is. Then you will not accept any cheap God. Otherwise you'll simply speculate on frog philosophy. You know that frog philosophy? He's calculating the length and breadth of Atlantic Ocean from the small well. Somebody's saying there is Atlantic Ocean, very great, and the frog has never seen the Atlantic Ocean. He is always in the well. He says, "How great? It is three feet? It may be ten feet?" "No, sir, it is very great." "All right. Hundred feet." "No, it is very great." "All right. Thousand feet." So go on. Where is the comparison of Atlantic Ocean within the well? (chuckling) So these rascals are calculating, speculating about God, how great He is by three feet, six feet, or ten feet, or hundred feet, thousand feet, like that. But He is greater than all your calculation, all your measurement. Avāṅ-mānasa-gocaraḥ. You cannot calculate how He's great. Simply you accept His greatness and surrender. That's your business. You just calculate yourself. Your infinitesimal identity is very small. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadha kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. Just divide the tip of your hair (in) ten thousand parts, and that one part is your identification, spiritual measurement.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says that don't be falsely proud. Just become submissive. Namanta eva. Namanta. Namanta means submissive, meek. Lord Jesus Christ also advised, "Those who are meek, the kingdom of God is for them." Is it not? So that's very nice qualification, to become humble and meek. Don't try to imitate falsely, "I am God." That is simply rascaldom. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also advised that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Giving up the false speculation of understanding God in your calculation, just become humble and meek. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. And try to hear about God from realized souls-from Kṛṣṇa or His bona fide representative. That is very nice qualification. Simply hear. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. In this way you remain in your position, try to understand how great is God through the authoritative sources, and your life will be so successful that one day you'll find God is within your hand. It is so nice thing. Just like you keep a child within your hand, just mother Yaśodā kept Kṛṣṇa within his (her) arms always, you'll also have a similar position simply by hearing about Him.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for giving chance... [break] ...everyone, hearing about God, Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa kīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, is the beginning. And in that Hare Kṛṣṇa, hearing is everything. Then we speak something from Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Upaniṣad-many hundred and thousands of books we have got. Even he, our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, one cannot finish reading in one life. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is so great. Our project is for sixty volumes. So these sixty volumes, it will be very difficult for any person to read it carefully throughout the whole life. So there is so much information about God that... But it is possible to understand Him if you associate with pure devotee of the Lord. Then svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Then God will reveal Himself. He is sitting within everyone's heart, and as soon as He sees that one is very sincere and "He's trying to understand Me," then He will teach you from within and you'll understand. Even without reading book, by His grace you will understand. But anything we should not claim falsely. We should be very sincere and serious to understand God. Then God will help us. God is within everyone's heart. There is no difficulty. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I'm very glad that you are all coming to our, this center. And these boys are trying to convince you in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Please try to cooperate with us so that we may be encouraged also.

Thank you very much. (end)



690416LE.NY

Lecture

-

New York, April 16, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto. Second Canto is not yet published. First Canto is published, our English translation. So, the Mahārāja King Parīkṣit, he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa to die within a week. That was the problem. So because he was emperor and... He was assured that he was going to die within a week, so he prepared himself. That is the duty of every human being, to prepare oneself before death. That is the defect of modern civilization. They do not know what is life. They take it very easily, this life, just like animals. "If I can eat nicely, if I can sleep nicely, if I can have sex life nicely, and if I can defend my country or my home nicely, then my business is finished." This is the modern way of civilization. They take account of the small portion of our life. Just like in the cinema film spool, there are hundreds and thousands of pictures, and that makes one complete picture. Similarly, we are passing through the different phases of life. So out of many thousands of pictures within the film spool, if I simply take care of one picture, that is not very intelligent. That is foolishness. If we take, "Oh, this picture is very nice," that's all-no. So we are passing through many phases of life, different dresses. Vāsāṁsi. Bhagavad-gītā says, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. Just like I am putting on this dress. If it is dirty or if it is very old, then I change; I accept another dress. Similarly, this body is also like that. When it is dirty or when it is old enough, not to be used, then we change to another body, and this body we leave. This is the whole instruction of all Vedic literature.



*Therefore the activities of this body is not all. And as there are different types of body, as we have come to this body, this status of body, passing through many, many types of abominable body*-aquatics, beasts, trees, plants, microbes, reptiles, so many... Repeatedly we have said, 8,400,000's of bodies. So this is an opportunity. This life, this human form of life, is an opportunity to make further progress. It is not that after this human body is finished, then there is no life. This misconception, this misleading philosophy, that after death there is nothing, void, is killing the human civilization. Is killing practically. They do not know "What is my next life?" The next life is there. As there are, you can see so many varieties of planets, so there are lives also, different grades of lives, different standard of life. Take for example the moon planet. What do they know about moon? They are trying to reach there by some mechanical means. That is not possible. Anyway, even if it is possible, one should know what is the standard of life there. That you can get from Vedic literature. There is very vivid description. They are not ordinary human being like us. The scientist says that the temperature is 200 degree less than zero. Even here, in your Western countries, although sometimes the temperature goes down below zero, if it is below ten degree or twenty degrees, you become suffocated. So how you can go there and live in a place where the temperature is below zero degree, 200 degree below the zero? So it is not possible. Even if you go, it is not possible to live there. If you have to live, then you have to dress yourself nicely. Just like when men like us from tropical countries come to your country, we dress... In India, practically there is no dress. You see these pictures, they are without any dress because there is no need of dress. It is tropical country. But in your country you require dress. You cannot go out without dress. You have to take precaution. Similarly, in other planets the atmosphere is different, the standard of living is different, the duration of life is different. There are varieties. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that if you want to go to the higher planets, there is ways and means. So we have discussed this point in our small book Easy Journey to Other Planets. So there is life in other planet, there is standard of living.

*Now, in the moon planet we understand the duration of life is ten thousands of years according to our calculation. Scientifically, everything is relative. Just like nowadays, formerly, to come to your country it would take two months from India on the surface. And now the airplane is there, we come within one day, within fifteen hours or twenty hours. So everything is relative. Just like the sputnik. The sputnik surrounded, circumambulated the earth in one hour, twenty*-five minutes, three times. That means by the sputnik speed, the three days... To circumambulate the earth three times means three day and night. That means according to our calculation, seventy-two hours. That seventy-two hours was finished in one hour and twenty-five minutes. How? Because the thing is relative. If you accelerate your speed, the whole thing becomes relative. So what is seventy-two hours on this planet, just above this planet, say about a few thousand miles up it becomes one hour twenty-five minutes. Similarly, when we speak of that in other planet the life is ten thousand years, that ten thousand years is in our calculation on this planet. But on their calculation, the same hundred years. Similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll learn, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Kṛṣṇa is instructing Arjuna that our one thousand yugas... One yuga, one aggregate of yuga, according to our, this planet's calculation, it is forty-three hundred thousands of years. So that multiplied by one thousand becomes twelve hours of that planet. So there are different calculation according to different planet, different situation. But there is life. Don't think that this planet is finished, that "Oh, this life is finished." It is simply ignorance. We have to take information from higher authoritative scripture.

*So there is life, and we are preparing for the next life. That is real knowledge. So we should not waste our, this valuable life whimsically. That is the instruction of all Vedic literatures. Don't spoil it. Even an ordinary moral instruction by one Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he says, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ. Your one moment of your life cannot be returned back even if you are prepared to pay millions of dollars. Today is 16th April, 1969. Now it is about 8 o'clock. The 7 p.m. of 16th April, 1969, is gone. If you want to take it back again and if you are prepared to pay millions of dollars, that 7 p.m., 16th April, 1969, will never come back. That's a fact. That 7 p.m., 16th April, 1969, if you have spoiled, then just imagine how much money you have spoiled, because you cannot get it even in exchange of millions of dollars. Therefore if you have spoiled that point of time without any utility, then you have spent at least many millions of dollars for nothing. That should be our calculation. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ sa cen nirarthakaṁ nītiḥ. If that valuable time is spoiled without any benefit, then just imagine how much you are losing every moment. So we should be very careful about our time. Don't spoil time. That is our request. Don't spoil time like animals. They have no responsibility because there is gradation. After this life, they get another life. After this life, they get another life. From aquatics they are promoted to the plant life. From plant life they are promoted to the insect life. From insect life they are promoted to the birds' life. Gradual evolution. They are coming by nature's way. Nature is helping. And nature has helped you to come to this life, to civilized form of life, where you can have education, where you can have nice compartment, apartment, nice food, nice association, nice car, nice city. Because... What is the difference between this nice and, I mean to say, not nice? Because you have got nice intelligence. In this land of America, when the Europeans did not come here to colonize, the Red Indians were there. They could not develop this American land so nicely, nice cities, because they were less intelligent. Now you are intelligent, you have developed it. That means if you have got nice intelligence, you can live nicely. Now what is the limit of that nice intelligence? That limit of nice intelligence is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is that? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After developing, going through many species of life, many intelligent human forms of life by cultivating knowledge, education, when one comes to the limit of education and knowledge, he understands what is God. What is God. That is the limit of. And to understand that knowledge, vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ. The most learned scholars, they have agreed that if you want to achieve knowledge, then you should study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ. Limit of knowledge, limit of education, highest limit of education can be found in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was narrated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī and it was heard by Mahārāja Parīkṣit. At that time he was the emperor of the world. He was very big emperor. Formerly, at least five thousand years ago, there were not many flags. There was only one flag. Now, with the advancement of civilization and in the name of United Nation, we are simply increasing flags. You see? So we are not increasing our civilization; we are decreasing. Disunited. In the name of United Nation, we are becoming disunited. You see? So this is not actually advancement of civilization. Actually, we have to study, phalena paricīyate. We have to study things by the result, not by propaganda. By false propaganda, if you study something, that is not studied. You have to see the result. Phalena paricīyate.

*So the thing is that we should be very careful to utilize our life. This duration of life, it should not be squandered away for nothing, without any profit. Of course, the Western people they are very busy making profit, undoubtedly. Economic development, that's very nice. But economic development is not actual advancement of civilization. Economic development means the material comforts: a better standard of eating, better standard of sleeping, better standard of sex life, and better standard of defending. But we have got another. We are not this body. Better standard of living, sleeping, mating, is meant for this body. But I am not this body. That is my first proposition, that I am not body. I am not this room, apartment. If I simply decorate this room with all my energies, forgetting about myself, then that is not very good intelligence. You decorate your body, decorate your room, decorate your dress*-that's all right-but take information of your soul also. Lord Jesus Christ said that if after achieving everything one loses his self, then what does he gain? The same thing is also in the Bhāgavata. There is no difference between the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ and Bhāgavata, but Bhāgavata is very elaborately described. And Lord Jesus Christ gave you in nutshell. Just like he gave you the information of the kingdom of God. Now, what is that kingdom of God, how it is being conducted, what is the situation, that you will find here. That is the difference. So this civilization, this civilized form of life, we should be careful. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit is the instance, that he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa that he would die within seven days, and he was preparing. He was preparing himself, because "I have to meet death." But we are so forward that we do not think of our death. But death is in... "As sure as death." Everyone has to meet death. And we have to consider what we are preparing for our life after death. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Not that to be absorbed in simply only this small duration of life, say fifty years, sixty years or hundred years. You are not hundred years or sixty years, fifty years. You are soul. You are eternal. So what is your eternal life? How you can become eternally happy? How you can have eternal life? That is your problem. That is your problem.

So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, therefore, when he was preparing... Because he was emperor, many great sages, saintly persons, many great kings and emperors assembled there, because everyone knew that "He is going to die within seven days." So he had some notice that "My dear sir, you'll die within seven days." But we can die any moment because there is no notice. Even if I stepping down on the street I may die. There may be some accident. Even if we are sitting here, there may be some accident; we may immediately die. So we have no notice. So we should be more careful and cautious than Parīkṣit Mahārāja, who had seven days notice at least, that at least he was not going to die within seven days. So he was preparing. At that time he was asking all saintly persons there that "What is my duty? Now I am going to die. What is my duty?" So in that way... Because he was from the very beginning Kṛṣṇa conscious and devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so he also questioned, "Whether I shall simply remember Kṛṣṇa?"

yac chrotavyam atho japyaṁ

yat kartavyaṁ nṛbhiḥ prabho

smartavyaṁ bhajanīyaṁ vā

brūhi yad vā viparyayam



He said, yac chrotavyam: "Now my time is limited. So what is my duty to hear?" Because our life is śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. We hear something, we chant something. Maybe our business chanting and hearing or maybe some educational chanting hearing or something else, the whole life is chanting and hearing. Therefore he asking question from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, yac chrotavyam: "What is to be heard just now, now I'm going to meet death?" Yac chrotavyam japyam: "What shall I meditate upon?" Japyaṁ yat kartavyam, "Or what shall I do now?" Smartavyam, "Or what shall I remember or what shall I worship?" So many things he said. Brūhi yad vā viparyayam: "Or you can explain what is my duty." That was his...



So because he inquired about Kṛṣṇa, therefore the speaker, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, who was inquired from Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he's first replying,

varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ

*kṛto loka*-hitaṁ nṛpa

*ātmavit*-sammataḥ puṁsāṁ

śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ

[SB 2.1.1]



*"My dear king, your question is very superexcellent. Superexcellent." (reads Sanskrit commentary) "You have inquired whether I shall now simply absorb my mind simply for hearing and chanting of Kṛṣṇa." That was his question. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī affirms that "This is a very nice inquiry, and your selection is also very nice." Śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ. We have got to hear so many things. As soon as we get out of this Kṛṣṇa temple, many, many friends will ask me so many things, and I'll talk with him so many things about politics, economics, social affairs, this country's position, this, that. Because without chanting and hearing, we cannot live for a moment. Either we shall talk nonsense or we shall talk about business or we talk of sex or talk some this or that, talking and chanting. You talk I hear, and I talk, you hear. That is the business going on everywhere. Now here Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that "You wanted to hear about Kṛṣṇa. That is your superexcellent proposal." Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ kṛto loka*-hitaṁ nṛpa [SB 2.1.1]. "And because you have inquired and I'll have to say something about Kṛṣṇa, so it is the most beautiful and superexcellent welfare activities for the all people of the world." Loka-hitam. And ātmavit-sammataḥ. And this sort of question and answer is confirmed by persons who are self-realized, ātmavit. Ātmavit. Ātmā means soul, or self, and vit means one who knows. So "Your, this proposal, this inquiry, is approved by persons who are self-realized." Ātmavit-sammataḥ puṁsāṁ śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ. Paraḥ means transcendental. There are many things, many subject matter for hearing, but this subject matter, Kṛṣṇa, is transcendental.



Then he said,

śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

*apaśyatām ātma*-tattvaṁ

*gṛheṣu gṛha*-medhinām

[SB 2.1.2]



*There are very important words here. Gṛheṣu. Gṛheṣu means at home, and gṛha-medhinām, gṛha-medhinām means persons who are simply attached to home life. There are many persons, different grades of persons. Generally, people are very much attached. Why men? Even animals, they are also. Even a tiger, he has got a wife and few cubs. So he's happy there. Gṛha-medhinām. A serpent, he has got also wife, a few children. Or any animal, dog, cat*-the husband and wife and few children. That is everywhere. It is not only in the human society. But the human society, even they are with wife, home, and children, they can talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is the facility. Otherwise, śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ [SB 2.1.2]. There are thousands and thousands of subject matter for talking. Just like you take a newspaper in the morning. In your country, a bunch of paper. You see. Although you cannot read, you must get one newspaper. You'll read only one column or one page, but there are thousands of pages. You see? You cannot finish even in one month such reading. (laughter) But what are those containing? The same thing-talkings about eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That's all. In different pictures, in different set up, but the subject matter is eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. So those who are simply attached to this materialistic way of life, their subject matter of hearing and chanting are many, many thousands forms. There is no limit. Why? Why they do it? They have no attraction for these things, but still, they engage themselves in such topics. Just like the same example. Actually, that newspaper tidings, whatever is brought before you, you are not interested, but you purchase one newspaper. Thousands of newspapers are selling. I see when I travel in the street the people are all engaged in reading newspapers. So this is a fact, that every man is engaged in thousands of topics of hearing and chanting in different ways. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. But they are blind about their own self. They are spending so much time in different topics, but they are blind about their self realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2]. Gṛha-medhinām, because they have made their life only to engage in these four things, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. In another place also, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. The same gṛha-vratānām, who has made their life, the aim of their life, simply for these things, eating, sleeping, mating and defending, for them, matir na kṛṣṇe, they cannot come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Parato means even after hearing instruction from some saintly person or from books, they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ... Parataḥ means by instruction of others, and svato means personally cultivating knowledge. Parataḥ svato vā. Mitho vā. Mitho vā means assembly, just like we are talking about this in assembly. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Gṛha-vratānām, those who have fixed up their aim of life simply to enjoy these four things, eating, sleeping, mating and defending, they cannot be attracted by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī also confirms here that apaśyatām ātma-tattvam: [SB 2.1.2] because they do not know what is the goal of his soul. That they do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. And because they have not engaged themselves in the spiritual culture or cultivation of self-realization or advancement of the self, their business is simply on these four principles of life, eating, sleeping, mating, and defending.



*So how they are spending, spoiling their life? That is stated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī: nidrayā hriyate naktam. We have got at our disposal twenty*-four hours, say, twelve hours night and twelve hours day. So how these twenty-four hours is being spoiled by persons who are simply interested in sleeping, eating, mating and defending? So Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, nidrayā hriyate naktam. At night they sleep. Nidrayā. Nidrayā means by sleeping; *hriyate, spoiling. Spoiling the time of night by sleeping. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā [SB 2.1.3]. Or by sex life. Two businesses. One has no opportunity... One who has no sex opportunity, he's sleeping. Or enjoying sex life. Then what about day? Divā cārthehayā rājan. And the whole day is being spoiled, "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" All right, you take money. Here is money. He gets, say, one thousand dollar, earns the whole day. Then? Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba*-bharaṇena vā [SB 2.1.3]. Then shopping. As soon as you get money there are nice shops, all advertising, "Come here. Take this garment. Take this. Take that. Take that car." Always advertisement. Anyone who has got his money in the pocket, he's immediately spending. So for earning money and to spend them or to sleep at night or to enjoy sex life at night. So this is the engagement of a materialistic man throughout the whole day and night. So dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api [SB 2.1.4]. But they are so fool that dehāpatya. This body and these children and this wife, this home, dehāpatya-kala..., ātma-sainyeṣu. Just like one feels very confident when he has got a great number of soldiers. Suppose we are fighting somewhere. If I have got a nice arrangement for defensive measure, then I feel confident. Similarly, we are thinking that "This home, this wife, this children, this society, this friendship, this love, this nation, that will give me protection." Teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. But they are so mad that although they are seeing that others' children are dying, others' wife is dying, one, another friend is dying, other nation is being defeated, other social custom or social friendship or any attachment, they are being spoiled, they are attached to all these things only. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu [SB 2.1.4]. They have no other information.

But you are not like that. You are, from the beginning of your life, you are given advantage by your parents, by your family, to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because Mahārāja Parīkṣit, when he was in the womb of his mother the other side of the Kuru dynasty, they released atom bomb to kill him, and Kṛṣṇa saved him. And after his birth, the boy was playing with Kṛṣṇa statue. So he is from the very beginning Kṛṣṇa conscious. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is advising, "My dear king, you are not this type of man, because as soon as you have heard you are sure that you are going to die, immediately you have come out from your home and all attachment of your kingdom, wife and children. So your business is," he advises, tasmād bhārata sarvātmā bhagavān īśvaro hariḥ. "Therefore you have asked me what is your duty. Now I give you to understand that this is your duty." What is that? "Bhārata..." He's addressing Mahārāja Parīkṣit as Bhārata. Bhārata means he belongs to the dynasty of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this planet was known as Bhāratavarṣa. So he's also descendant of that dynasty. He's addressed as Bhārata. Tasmād. Tasmād means "therefore." "My dear king, you are descendant of Bhārata Mahārāja." Sarvātmā bhagavān īśvaro hariḥ. "The Lord, Hari, or Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," śrotavyaḥ, "you simply hear about Him," śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca, "and also chant about Him," śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca and smartavyas, "and remember always."

So here is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, simply to hear and chant about Kṛṣṇa and remember Him always. Then you are safe. You have nothing to be disturbed. Your life is safe. Your next life is assured, very good life. And it is very simple. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) All right, chant, or you want to ask me any question about this? Yes.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, Mahārāja Parīkṣit was a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa from his birth. So is he actually in need of these talks by Śukadeva, or is this for the benefit of others?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You never think that you have become very stalwart, you do not need any spiritual master's instruction. Don't think that way. Then you are spoiled. You should always think that you are nothing. Even you are very much advanced. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "My spiritual master saw Me a great fool [Cc. Adi 7.71]." You see? So we should remain always a fool. We should never think that we have advanced. Then we can advance. Then we can advance. And as soon as we think, "Oh, I have advanced now. Nobody has to instruct me. Now I shall..." That's not good.



Devotee: Wasn't that the case with Arjuna?



*Prabhupāda: Everyone. We should always be prepared to take instruction from the authorities. We should never think that we have become perfect. Although you are perfect. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. One should be very humble, meek, and always think that "I am nothing." Just like the author of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, such a great, stalwart man, such a great devotee. Nobody has produced such literature as Caitanya-caritāmṛta. He is presenting himself that "I am lighter than the worm in the stool." Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha [Cc. Ādi 5.205]. Purīṣ means stool and kīṭa means worm. So "I am lower than the worm in the stool. Anyone who takes my name, all his pious activities immediately becomes lost." In this way he is presenting himself. That does not mean that he's actually so, but that is the attitude of a devotee. He's always very meek and humble. And the opposite side is, "I am God. Now finish all business." You see? So this māyā is very strong. He's (She's) always enticing me, "Oh, you are so great, so big, so... You have nothing to learn. Finish all..." This is māyā's instruction. But we should always be very humble, meek, and we should know always that "What I know? I do not know anything." The knowledge is unlimited. God is unlimited. And my position is very minute, fractional, infinitesimal. What I can accommodate? I shall go on. I shall go on. Remain. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. We shall always try to remain servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the... Hundred times servant. Then it will be all right. The more you become humble, meek, the more you advance. That is real advancement.



Jayadvaita: If we're so much puffed up by our previous practice, how can we develop...



Prabhupāda: That is material life. We are falsely puffed up. Don't you see? Every... Majority of the persons, they'll say, "Oh, what is God? What is God?" The scientists, as soon as you say... Any foundation you approach, "Sir, can you give us some money for spreading this Kṛṣṇa...?" "No. What is this?" You see? They have practically forgotten what is God. So anyway, we don't want many men. If there is one man to understand about this science of God, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is sufficient. He can deliver many men. You see. Chant always Hare Kṛṣṇa, remain humble, meek, pray to Kṛṣṇa, "Please save me," then it is very nice. You should always remain. (child crying) [break] (fire sacrifice?) Yes, everyone, take, those who are to be... Chant, always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chant japa) That's all right. Now wash. Wash your hand. You should see how I've done it. Yes. You should be intelligent. That's all right. Once wash your hand.



Birbhadra: Like this.



Jayadvaita: Once more?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You have not seen it. You should be intelligent enough. Just see everyone. One, two, three. (sips) Now again. That's all. Finish. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) That's it. Do everyone like that. Do. (kīrtana) (Prabhupāda several times says, "Chant loudly. Loudly.") (kīrtana) [break] Prabhu kahe tomāra dui*-bhāi prayāge rūpa anurag vṛndāvana (?). So Lord Caitanya informed Sanātana Gosvāmī that "Your two other brothers, I met them at Prayāga, and they have started for Vṛndāvana." Lord Caitanya deputed this Sanātana Gosvāmī... (end)





690417LE.NY

Lecture

-

New York, April 17, 1969



(Prabhupāda singing along with "Govindam" record)

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Everything all right?



Devotees: Jaya.



*Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles) Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. Govindam ādi-puruṣa is known as Hari. Hari means "who takes away all your miseries." That is Hari. Hara. Hara means taking away. Harate. So just like thief also takes away, but he takes away the valuable things, material consideration, sometimes Kṛṣṇa also takes away your material valuables just to show you special favor. Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ [SB 10.88.8]. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja inquired from Kṛṣṇa that "We are supposed to be very pious. My brothers are great warriors, my wife is exactly the goddess of fortune, and above all, You are our personal friend. So how is this that we have lost everything? (chuckling) We have lost our kingdom, we have lost our wife, we have lost our honor-everything." So in reply to this, Kṛṣṇa said, yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ: "My first favor is that I take away all riches of My devotee." Therefore people are not very much enthusiastic to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But He does it. Just like the Pāṇḍavas were in the beginning put into difficulty, but later on they became the most exalted personalities throughout the whole history. That is Kṛṣṇa's favor. In the beginning, He may do like that because we have got attachment for our material acquisitions.



So... That is my personal experience. In the beginning, when my Guru Mahārāja ordered me, I thought it that "I shall first of all become very rich man; *then I shall preach." (laughs) So I was doing very nice in business. In the business circle, I got very good name, and with whom I was dealing business, they were very satisfied. But Kṛṣṇa made so trick that He broke everything, and He obliged me to take sannyāsa. So that is Hari. So that I had to come to your country with only seven dollars. So they are criticizing, "The swami came here with no money. Now he's so opulent." (chuckles) So they are taking the back side, black side, you see? But the thing is... Of course, I have become profited, profitable, or I have acquired profit. I left my home, my children and everything. I came here as a pauper, with seven dollars. That is no money. But I have got now big properties, hundreds of children. (laughter) And I haven't got to think for their provision. They are thinking of me. So that is Kṛṣṇa's favor. In the beginning, it appears to be very bitter. When I took sannyāsa, when I was living alone, I was feeling very bitter. I, sometimes I was thinking, "Whether I have done wrong by accepting?" So when I was publishing this Back to Godhead from Delhi, one day one bull thrashed me, and I fell down on the footpath and I got severe injury. I was alone. So I was thinking, "What is this?" So I had very, days of very tribulations, but it was all meant for good. So don't be afraid of tribulations. You see? Go forward. Kṛṣṇa will give you protection. That is Kṛṣṇa's promise in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati: [Bg. 9.31] "Kaunteya, My dear son of Kunti, Arjuna, you can declare throughout the whole world that My devotees will never be vanquished. You can declare that." And why He's asking Arjuna to declare? Why He does not declare Himself? There is meaning. Because if He promises, there are instances that He sometimes broke His promise. But if a devotee promises, it will be never broken. Kṛṣṇa will give protection; therefore He says His devotee that "You declare." There is no chance of being broken. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that sometimes He breaks His promise, but if His devotee promises, He takes very careful attention that His devotee's promise may not be broken. That is Kṛṣṇa's favor.

*So ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. We are worshiping govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ, the supreme original Personality of Godhead who is known as Hari. The Vedic scripture says ārādhito yadi hariḥ. If you have come to the point of worshiping Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, tapasā tataḥ kim, then there is no more need of austerity, penances, yoga practice, or this or that, so many sacrifices, ritualistic... All finished. You do not require to take trouble for these things if you have come to the point of sacrificing everything for Hari. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And you are performing austerities, penances, sacrifices, ritualistic ceremony-everything-but I do not know what is Hari: it is useless, all useless. Nārādhito yadi hariḥ, nārādhitaḥ. If you do not come to the point of worshiping Hari, then all these things are useless. Tataḥ kim. Antarbahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. If you always see Hari within yourself and if you see Hari always outside, inside and outside... Tad vantike tad dūre tad... What is that verse? Īśopaniṣad? Tad antare... Dūre tad antike sarvasya. Hari is present everywhere, so one who sees Hari, antike, near, or distant place, within, outside, he does not see anything except Hari. How it becomes possible? Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. When one is merged into the love of God, he does not see anything in the world except Hari. That is his vision. So antarbahir yadi hari, inside and outside, if you always see Hari, Kṛṣṇa, tapasā tataḥ kim, then what is the use of your other austerities and penances? You are on the topmost level. That is wanted. Nanta-bahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And if you do not see within and outside Hari always, then what is the value of your austerities? Therefore in the morning we chant this mantra, govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. We have no other business. Simply we have to satisfy Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is complete. He is complete and His worship is complete, His devotee is complete. Everything is complete.

Thank you. Chant. (kīrtana) (end)



690423LE.BUF

Engagement Lecture

-

Buffalo, April 23, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ.



*om ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



The meaning of this verse... It is offering obeisances to the spiritual master. The spiritual master opens the eyes of the ignorant disciple in the matter of transcendental knowledge. Therefore it is the duty of the disciple, before speaking, to offer obeisances to the lotus feet of the spiritual master. Our Vedic process is not research work. Just like in the mundane scholarship, one has to show his academic career by some research work. The Vedic process is different. Vedic process is that our research work is not complete because the instruments and the means by which we make progress in research work are blunt and imperfect. We are conditioned. At this stage of our material existence, we are conditioned by so many laws of nature. Under the circumstances, every conditioned soul has four defects. Just like to commit mistake. There is no man, even great man, who does not commit mistake. More or less, he commits mistake. Just like in our country there was Mahatma Gandhi. He was supposed to be a very great personality, mahātmā, but he also committed mistake because when he was killed, five minutes before his coming to the meeting, he was warned by his confidential associates not to go to that meeting, but he persisted, and as soon as he entered the meeting hall he was killed. So I am giving an instance that even a great personality like Mahatma Gandhi, he also committed mistake. So in the conditioned state of our life, committing mistake is very natural. Just like we say, "To err is human." Any human being is susceptible to commit mistake. Another imperfectness is that every man is illusioned. Illusioned means to accept something which is not, phantasmagoria. Just like every one of us in this meeting, we are under the impression that "I am this body." But actually I am not this body. This is called illusion, māyā.



*So to commit mistake, to become illusioned, number two, and number three: a cheating propensity. Everyone, conditioned soul, thinks himself very expert, and he talks with his, I mean to say, fellow man as a very intelligent man. And he has got every... Just like in business. In business you go to a storekeeper. He'll say, "Oh, you are my great friend. I am not taking a farthing profit from you." But you must know that he is taking profit, at least fifty percent. So this is called cheating propensity. One who is not in the knowledge, but he puts forward his theories and theses and so many by the words "perhaps," "it may be," like that*-this is called cheating. So to commit mistake, to be illusioned, and cheating propensity, and at last, imperfectness of the senses. Our senses are limited. We cannot see far distant place. We cannot see nearest. Just like our eyes cannot see the eyelids because it is the nearest. And you cannot see the farthest. So the eyes also see under certain condition, in certain perspective position. Similarly, all our senses are limited. They cannot understand, or it is not possible to understand the unlimited by these imperfect, illusioned, and cheating senses. Therefore Vedic process does not accept that one should endeavor to know the ultimate truth by exertion of our present senses, which are conditioned by so many ways. Therefore those who are students in the Vedic literature, they accept authorities. Just like you are reading Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is being taught by Lord Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna. He is authority. And Kṛṣṇa says that "This Bhagavad-gītā is taught from time immemorial by disciplic succession," not by research work. As soon as you study Bhagavad-gītā by your academic knowledge, without reference to the authoritative description, then you commit mistake. You do not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, that "This disciplic succession is now broken. I therefore establish again the disciplic succession unto you." That means Arjuna becomes the disciple of Kṛṣṇa, and anyone who understands Bhagavad-gītā, following the footprints of Arjuna, he can understand rightly what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. So all Vedic literatures, not only Bhagavad-gītā, all the Vedas... There are four Vedas: Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva. Then there are Upaniṣads, 108 Upaniṣads. Out of that, nine Upaniṣads are very important: Īśopaniṣad, Kaṭha Upaniṣad, Taittirīya Upaniṣad. So then again, Vedānta-sūtra, then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In this way there are various Vedic literatures. And if you are interested... You should be interested. These Vedic literatures are not meant for a particular class of men. It was meant for the human society so that they may take advantage of this knowledge and make a perfection of their human life.

*So I shall try to speak before you this evening one of the instruction of Vedic literature spoken by Ṛṣabhadeva. So our offering of obeisances to the spiritual master is in accordance with the disciplic succession. Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā, cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena: "The personality who opens the eyes by the torch of knowledge." Tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ: "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the spiritual master." So here is a speech by Ṛṣabhadeva. Ṛṣabhadeva is accepted as incarnation of Godhead. And long, long years ago He appeared on this earth, and He was father of the King Bhārata, under whose name this planet is called Bhārata-varsa. He had one hundred sons, and out of them, Bhārata was the eldest. He was very intelligent. So the father entrusted the kingdom to the eldest son, Bhārata Mahārāja, and before retirement He was speaking to His sons a spiritual instruction which is recorded in this Bhāgavata. And He said,

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*He is advising, "My dear sons, this life..." "This life" means this human form of life. Ayam deha. Ayam means "this," and deha means "body." Na means "not." Na ayam deha: "This body is not meant." Nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha-bhājām: "those who have taken or accepted this material body, amongst them." Now, this is a very significant word, those who have accepted this material body, deha-bhājām. And according to Vedic literature, we understand that this material world is only one-fourth manifestation of the complete creation of God. The three-fourths' portion of God's creation is spiritual world. That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says,



atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

ekāṁśena viṣṭabhyāham

idaṁ kṛstnaṁ jagat



*Ekāṁśena means a part, a fractional part. This material world is a fractional part of the whole creation. You see this universe, as far as you can see up to the sky. That is only one universe. And there are unlimited universes. They are clustered together. And that is called material world. And beyond that clusters of unlimited number of universes, there is another, spiritual sky. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paras tasmād tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ. Lord says that "Beyond this material world, there is another bhāva, nature." Just like this is material nature. He says, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ, bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. Anya means another. "There is another nature, which is sanātana." Sanātana means eternal. There is no history of its beginning, or there is no end-that is called sanātana, eternal. Eternal means which has no end, no beginning. Nobody knows where it has begun and where it has ended. Nobody knows. Just like the Vedic religion is called sanātana-dharma because nobody can trace out when this Vedic religion begun. Therefore it is called sanātana-dharma. Every religion in our present experience, it has got a history. Your Christian religion, it has got a history, two thousand years old. Buddhist religion, it has got a history, 2600 years. Muhammadan religion, it has got a history, one thousand years. But if you trace out Vedic religion, you cannot find out the history, date. There is no date. You cannot find out. No historian can give. So therefore it is called sanātana-dharma. And in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that "There is another nature, which is sanātana." Sanātana means there is no history of its creation or... But this material creation, as you know... We say, "God created." "God created" means before creation, God was existing. "God created"*-this very word suggests that before this creation of this cosmic manifestation, God was existing. Therefore God is not under this creation. If God is under this creation, then how He can create? He becomes one of the object of the material creation. So God is not under creation. He is the creator. Before creation, He was existing. That is called sanātana. That means He is also sanātana. And there is a spiritual nature, sky, where there are innumerable spiritual planets also. And there are innumerable spiritual living entities also. And some of them, those who are not fit to live in that spiritual world, they are, I mean to say, sent to this material world. The same idea is expressed in Milton's Paradise Lost.



*So we all, conditioned souls, we are practically living in a place after paradise lost. We should understand this. So here the specific instruction is that deha*-bhājām. Deha-bhājām means we have voluntarily or willingly we have accepted this material body. Actually, we are spirit soul. We should not have accepted this material body. But when we have accepted, how we have accepted, there cannot be any tracing of history. It is not possible. Anādi karama. Anādi karama. Nobody can trace out the history when we, the conditioned soul, accepted this material body. And deha-bhājām means that anyone who has accepted this material body... Not very big. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Nine hundred thousand species of living entities in the water. Similarly, two millions species of life in the plants and vegetables. In this way, on the total, there are 8,400,000's of species of life. Unfortunately, this Vedic knowledge is not instructed in any university, but these are fact. They should try. If they are very much inquisitive to make research work, now let them research away how the Vedic knowledge says there 8,400,000's of species of life. Let the botanists, let the anthropologists, or so many-there are department of knowledge-let them research out. Darwin's theory, evolution of the organic matter, they are very much prominent in the educational institutions. But there is Padma Purāṇa and other authoritative Vedic scriptures. They give the magnitude of the living entity. They have different forms of body. How they are evolving one after another-everything is there. It is not a new thing. But people are giving stress only to the Darwin's theory. But in the Vedic literature we have got immense information of this living condition in this material world.

*So apart from that, here it is said, deha*-bhājām. Deha-bhājām means "those who have accepted this material body." That means there are some, not some... There are many who have not accepted this material body. But they have no experience who has not accepted this material body, in this material world. That is there in the spiritual world. These living entities, innumerable living entities in so many universes in the material world or material universe or material nature, they are only fractional portion of all living entities. Only a fractional portion. Because they are condemned. Those who are in this material world, with this material body, they are condemned. Just like you take another example: just like in the prison house. The prison house, population in the prison house, they are condemned by the government. But their number is only fraction of the whole population, not that whole population of the state goes to the prison house. Some criminals who are disobedient to the laws of the state, they are put into the prison house under confinement. Similarly, these conditioned souls within this material world, they are only fractional portion of the whole living enti..., number of living entities in the creation of God, and because they have disobeyed or declined to obey or abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, or God, they have been put into this material world. Now, the problem is: if one is sensible, if one is inquisitive and serious, he should try to understand that "Why I am put into this material conditional life?" That should be the inquiry. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. In the Vedānta-sūtra this is the first inquiry, that people should be educated to that standard of life when he will be inquisitive to know, "Why I am put into this conditional life? What is the condition? I do not wish to suffer."

There are three kinds of sufferings. Many times I have explained. They are called ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. Ādhyātmika sufferings means pertaining to this body and mind. Suppose I have got some pain here today. This is bodily suffering. Or my mind is not in... [break] They do not mind it. Just like animals. Animals, they are always in suffering, but they do not mind it. Recently I was in Hawaii. So in front of my house there was a man who was keeping some animals and birds for slaughtering. Not there, but he was dragging for selling the animals and birds for slaughtering. Now, I was giving example to my students. Now, these animals are standing here, and tell them, "Oh, my dear animals, why you are standing here? You go away. You are meant for being slaughtered." But he has no intelligence. He cannot go. Even in the slaughterhouse also, he cannot go. So suffering without knowledge, without remedy, means animal life, means animal life, one who cannot understand his suffering and he thinks, "Oh, I am very well off. I am very well situated." But that is animal consciousness. One should be cognizant of the suffering, threefold miseries of his life. One should know there is suffering in birth, there is suffering in death, there is suffering in old age, and there is suffering in disease. And one should be inquisitive. That is the real research work, how to avoid death, how to avoid birth. We have suffered during our birth. We have suffered as a child, as a baby. We remained within the abdomen of our mother, tightly placed in a airtight bag for ten months, and I could not move even, and there are insects biting me. I could not protest. But we have forgotten. After coming out, we had... Our sufferings are there. Mother is taking so much care undoubtedly; *still, the child is crying. Why it cries? It has got some suffering, but he cannot express. There are some bugs biting or some pains within somewhere. The child is crying, crying. The mother does not know how to pacify it. So in this way our suffering has begun from the womb of our mother. And then I do not wish to go to school. I am forced to go to a school. I do not wish to study. The teachers give me tasks. If you just study, analyze your life, it is full of suffering, full of suffering. But we have no inquiry. We have no inquiry. This is not education. Therefore Brahma*-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now you should inquire why you are suffering. Is there any remedy for suffering? Then, if there is remedy, then you must take it. You must take advantage of the remedy." But we are callous. We do not care for it. This is not good.

*Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says to His sons, "My dear sons, now you have got this opportunity. Out of 8,400,000's of lives, take..." Forget Ṛṣabhadeva's sons. I will speak to the American boys and girls. Now you have got very nice body, very beautiful body, very nice country. You have no poverty. So many ways, you have an advantage than other nations. So if you apply this instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons... Ṛṣabhadeva spoke to His sons does not mean only it was meant for His sons. It is meant for the whole human race. So he said that "My dear sons, this body, this nice body, beautiful body, this own flesh(?) body, is not meant for sense gratification like the cats and dogs and hogs." He says that kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: "By hard labor, by hard work, culminating into sense gratification, simply for that satisfaction, if we spoil our life, oh, it is not very good." Take that instruction to your life also, that you are very nicely placed, but according to Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction, you should not spoil this beautiful life simply for sense gratification. Why? Ṛṣabhadeva answered, "That sense gratification process is there, viḍ-bhujām." Viḍ-bhujām means the stool-eaters. What animal is the stool-eater? The hog. This kind of sense gratification, working day and night hard, is available even in hog's life. Therefore... You have got so nice, beautiful body. You should not imitate the hogs. You see? I was surprised to hear from one of my principal disciples, Brahmānanda-I was walking in Central Park*-that the groups of the hippies, they have begun to worship hogs. You can explain that, why they are doing. This is not very hopeful. You see? After having this nice body, nice country, nice civilization, nice education, the result is hog worshiping. Will you explain today. Still silent?

*Brahmānanda: Yes. We have experience not only in New York City but many places around the country-I'm sure you're familiar-of worshiping hogs. Many places where we go chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, the Lord's name, we've experience of groups of young people chanting "hog, hog, hog." This is going on in New York City. And also they actually have parades where they parade with hogs and pigs. And they bow down before the pigs, and they worship the pigs. And they want the hogs to become... They want to run the hog for president, and they want the hogs to lead them. It's even gone to such lengths that at one be-in*-this was in Seattle-there was a massive demonstration with hogs. There, boys and girls undressed themselves and got in the mud and they just played with the hogs. Dirty, just living like the hogs, which they worship.



Young man: You don't think there's some irony in that?



*Prabhupāda: So anyway, this hog worship was anticipated long, long ago. Otherwise how they could be described in the Bhāgavatam, which was compiled at least five thousand years ago? Anyway, the idea is that beautiful life, beautiful education, beautiful situation, should be utilized for beautiful end, not degrade to the platform of hog worship. That is not very palatable thing at least. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, the sense gratification process after hard work day and night is available in the hog's life. That is not a very important thing. This human form of life is meant for a different purpose." And that purpose he explains, that tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattva śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam: [SB 5.5.1] "This human form of life is meant for austerity and penance." You will find in the history of Vedic literature, there were many, many exalted emperors and kings. They also gave to the, led to the practice of austerity and penance. Dhruva Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja-they were all kings. They were called rājarṣi. Rājarṣi means although they were king, most opulent, still, they were great sages. So the same thing is advised, that those persons who have got this opportunity of the spiritual, human form of life, with facility for economic welfare, with facility for giving very nicely everything*-the opportunity should be used for better life. Ye tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Tapasya, austerity. A little penance. Just like our students. They are practicing... [break] ...is also explained, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam. Sattvam means pure existence. I am existing in this body, this material body, but if you take to this austerity process, it is not very troublesome, at all troublesome. It is pleasant. You can ask our students who are practicing it. They are very much pleased to practice this. So it is not troublesome. It is pleasing. So tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Your existence will be purified. As soon as your existence is purified... The difference between animal life and human life is that human life, existence, is more purified. He has got better consciousness than the animals. Similarly, if you more purify your existence, you (are) gradually elevated to the spiritual existence, which is completely pure life.



*So Ṛṣabhadeva advises, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life simply for sense gratification, but voluntarily accept some austerity and penances so that your existence will be purified. And when you get your purified existence... You are seeking after happiness. Whatever happiness you are inclined in this material world, that is only limited. But if you purify your existence and some way or other be promoted to your spiritual existence, then..." Brahma*-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. Brahman. Brahman means the greatest. As I told you from the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā, so what is the Brahman life, so there is Brahman pleasure also. In the Brahman pleasure there is also dancing, there are young girls, young boys-everything. These are only reflections. Whatever we are finding in this material world, the last evening we explained, that it is that perverted reflection of the spiritual world. So if you want unlimited happiness, unlimited knowledge, and eternal life, you should not spoil your, this very nice opportunity simply for sense gratification, but adjust it to accept this life of austerity to promote yourself to the spiritual life. Then you will get unlimited happiness, unlimited life, unlimited pleasure. That is the sum and substance of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*So we have got literature and magazines in this respect, publishing. We have got our Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is, and Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Nectar of Devotion, Easy Journey to Other Planets. So I request you that this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, especially in your country, is meant for giving a finishing touch to your present position. Don't take it otherwise. You are all educated students and girls and boys. I request you, try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and take it very seriously. You will be happy, and because people of other countries, they are following your progress, so if you take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seriously and rightly, the whole face of the world will be changed. It will be turned into spiritual world. Of course, we do not expect that everyone will accept this philosophy, but even one percent population of the whole world accepts this... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21]. The Bhagavad-gītā explains that if some principal man accepts some theory and some philosophy, others follow. So we have got our center here. I request you all student to try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and purify yourself. And the purificatory process is very simple. We are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So my request, my fervent request to you all, that you are very nicely placed. Please try to understand this philosophy. Make your life very happy in this life or in the next life so that people of the world will be happy by following your example.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)



690425LE.BOS

Lecture

-

Boston, April 25, 1969



*Prabhupāda: When I was in Buffalo, my last lecture was at Buffalo University college. So I began a series of lecture for the young boys and girls. This series of lecture is not manufactured by me. Our process is not manufacturing. The Vedic process is not personal opinion. Our process is simply to carry the transcendental message to the people. Our system is so nice that we haven't got to manufacture daily a new thesis. The difficulty of modern age is... Not modern age. It is also old system, because in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam we find one verse which says, tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ: "Simple arguments and logic will not carry you to the Absolute Truth." Tarkaḥ. Tarkaḥ means arguments. You may be very good logician, you can argue very nice, but another logician may come and defeat you. That is going on. New philosopher, new logician, new thinker means he defeats his previous other scripture in some details. Of course, on nkers, logicians, and philosophers, and becomes prominent. That is the materialistic way of gaining name, fame and popularity. But our process is different. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. We accept that simply by arguments and logic, it is not possible to approach the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is not subjected to our deficient logic or argument.

So tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. If somebody says, "Well, argument and logic is not the way to approach the Absolute Truth. Then let us take scriptures, the authority of the scriptures," that is also very nice. In every human society there is some sort of scripture. Just like in your country there is Bible or any other scripture. We have got *Vedas*. The Muhammadans, they have got Koran. They can help also, because that is also authority. But you will find that one scripture is differing from the average there is no difference. Just like Bible preaches, Lord Jesus Christ preaches love of God, we are also preaching the same thing, love of God. But our process is little different. That's all. That process may be different according to time, circumstances, people. That is natural. Therefore, for a neophyte, simply by consulting scriptures, he will not be able to reach to the absolute goal. Because he will find, "Oh..." Sometimes they become skeptic. Just like in the modern age, the youngsters, you all boys and girls, they are becoming skeptic. They don't believe in any scripture now because they find some differences. Therefore Bhāgavata said that tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā: "Simply by argument you cannot establish what is Absolute Truth, and if you consult different scriptures, you will find difference of opinion, or difference of procedures, rituals." So śrutayo vibhinnā nāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And if we consult great thinkers or philosophers, they have got their different opinions. Some philosopher says, "I think this is right. I think this is right." So whom you will accept? They are also of different opinion. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā nāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. You won't find a single philosopher whose opinion is not different from the previous philosopher, or muni. Muni means thinker, thoughtful man, muni, from mind. Nāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam, dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām.

Therefore to understand the Absolute Truth, it is very difficult to find out how to have it. But the only one way recommended in the Vedic scripture, that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ... [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājana. Mahājana means great personality. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. That is the real path, if you follow the great personality. Now, there is a difference of great personalities also. You think that he is great personality; *he thinks another great personality. But there is a definition of great personality. That definition is given in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vasudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*"After many, many transmigration, or changing the body..." We should always remember that our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins from the fact that we living entities, we are not material product. We are part and parcel of God. We are qualitatively one with God but quantitatively different from Him. That is our philosophy. Living entity and God, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, they are qualitatively one. God is also a living entity like you and me, but He is qualitatively unlimitedly powerful. That is the difference. Just like we find, every one of us sitting here, you will find some difference. You may be a greater personality than me. Another gentleman may be a greater personality than you, and somebody may be greater than him, somebody may be greater than him. Similarly, if you go up to the post of your president, Mr. Nixon, he is supposed to be the greatest personality in your country. But you will find a greater personality than him also. Go on searching. So these greater personalities... You may be greater than me, but you are also person, I am also person. President Nixon is also a person. All this greatness may be different, but so far we are personally concerned, the personal propensities, the personal needs, personal necessities, everything, they are equal. Come on. There is no difference. So God is also a person, but His personality is different from us because we know that God is great. He is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent. There are so many qualifications we qualify God.



So mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. The great personality... So far we are concerned, a great personality is he who is a devotee of God. He is great personality. Just like in your country, you accept Lord Jesus Christ as great personality. He is son of God. Or take him as personality, one of the human beings; *still, he is great because he preached God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the test of great personality. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. So in Buffalo I was instructing the younger boys and girls in the college that "You are very nicely situated. Your country is economically very well equipped. You are very good looking. Your education is very nice. You have got hundreds of universities in your country. Practically there is no man or woman illiterate. So your situation, comparatively with other nations or other country, is very good. That is admitted by everyone. So you should utilize this opportunity. That is my request. Your well situation, your material prosperity, your intelligence, your education should be properly utilized. It should not be misused." What is misused and what is proper utilization? That is also explained by Ṛṣabhadeva in this instruction. He says that nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke. You have got this opportunity. Ṛṣabhadeva was instructing to His sons. Ṛṣabhadeva was the emperor of the world. Naturally His sons were also princes; *they were not ordinary boys. He had hundred sons, and he was instructing them before retirement. He was instructing them, "My dear boys," that "this body, if you think that you have very, very nice princely body and you are the son of a great emperor, so if you simply utilize your opportunity for sense gratification, that is not good. That is not good." Because every conditioned soul, every living entity is prone to certain types of sense gratification. So when one is very nicely situated, sense gratification can be seen, can be acquired, can be had, even in the lower animals. So Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His sons, "My dear boys, you do not misuse your opportunity simply by sense gratification. Because sense gratification is also possible in the lower animals like cats, dogs, and hogs. They have got also ample opportunity for sense gratification." The dog in the street, he can gratify his senses, sex life, with so many dogs. The hogs also, he can also satisfy his senses in so many she*-hogs. So that opportunity is there in the cats' and dogs' and hogs' life. So Ṛṣabhadeva advised His sons, "Don't spoil your opportunity simply by imitating the cats, dogs and hogs."

*So the same thing... Not I am manufacturing. I am just following the footprints of Ṛṣabhadeva. Although I am not emperor of the world, but I am a teacher. It is my duty not only to you, to everyone. But I take your country, I have come to your country with a special purpose, with a special mission, that if the American boys and girls take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously, then that will be followed by other countries, and the face of the world will change. That is my request. And I am glad also that my students, my disciples, who are already under my instruction and following, they are all boys and girls. None of them are above twenty-five years. Our, I think, oldest student is Kīrtanānanda. He is thirty or thirty*-one years. Otherwise all our students are young boys. You see all these boys. They are sitting. So I am very hopeful that youngsters of this country are taking this movement a little seriously. Therefore I am hopeful. And I request also that you have got all opportunities. You don't misuse it simply for sense gratification. That is my request.

*Then what should be the purpose of life? This opportunity, this nice intelligence, nice education, nice beautiful body, nice economic condition-that should be utilized for tapasya. Tapasya means austerity, restriction. Restriction. Just like our students. We advise our students-and they follow-that "You don't have illicit sex life." Boys and girls, they are mixing, making friendship. That is nice. That is natural. A young boy is attracted by a young girl, or young girl is attracted by young boy. That is not unnatural, because it is in the Supreme Lord. That nice love attraction is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is a boy, sixteen-years-old boy, and Rādhārāṇī is also a fifteen-years-old girl. Not even one year's... I think, fifteen days younger. So our worshipable object is that spiritual love, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. But the so-called love in this material world is only a perverted reflection. It is only lust. So you have, by austerity, you have to change that lust into love. If you love one girl, if you love one boy, that is very nice. That is natural. That is not unnatural. But don't change that love. Be combined permanently. Be combined. Not that "After few months I give up this girl," "I give up this boy," "I capture another." No. That is austerity. That is austerity. Oh, I purposely... Although I am a sannyāsī*-I have no interest with family life, neither we are expected to take part in this man and woman relationship-but still, purposely I have married so many couples, boys and girls, just to see them happy. Without happiness, without being in good mood of mind, you cannot prosecute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



*Prasanna*-manaso. Unless you become joyful in your mind by executing devotional service... Evaṁ prasanna. Prasanna means joyful. Manasa, manasa means mind. When you are fully joyful in your mind by executing devotional service... Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ. How one can become joyful? Simply by executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not otherwise. It is not possible.



*So austerity means we are not imposing upon you that you go to the forest and live in a cave or you don't eat or don't see any human being-you just meditate for three hundred years. No. That is not possible. That is not possible. You cannot go to the forest, you cannot go to the mountain, neither you can meditate. All these are not recommended in this age. That is not possible. If somebody imitates or tries to imitate, he is simply wasting time. Only austerity is that don't have illicit sex life just like cats and dogs, because marriage is recommended in the human society. There is no marriage in cat society, dog society, hog society. Any human society you take, either in the Western world or in the Eastern world, or in Christian society, Hindu society, Muhammadan society*-in every civilized human society there is a ceremony called marriage. And that is also Vedic system, that one should not have any illicit sex life, but one should be combined according to religious rite and live peacefully and execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This much austerity.

*The next austerity, we say that don't take any animal food. There is no need of taking. Perhaps you are coming to our love feast. We can prepare. Of course, these boys and girls, they are not very expert, but still, whatever they have learned, and they are supplying prasādam to your American boys and girls, and people, they are appreciating very much. In Los Angeles-that is our biggest temple in your country*-we get in every love feast day not less than two hundred guests. They come from far away with their car and they take. They like it. You see? So if you accept this austerity, that "We shall not eat meat, but we can have very nice foodstuff from grains, from fruits, from vegetables, milk, sugar, so many nice foodstuff," you will forget. Simply you have to learn. That is not very severe austerity. Simply our process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how from this present consciousness we want to change to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So these austerities are required: no illicit sex life, no meat-eating, no intoxication. No intoxication. Our boys and girls, they do not even smoke. They do not take tea, coffee, and what to speak of other intoxicants. They were intoxicated. Some of them were LSD, but they have given up to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And no gambling. These four principles you accept. It is not very difficult, not very severe. Simply you have to be willing, "Yes. Why? If I can live on such nice foodstuff, why shall I take to animal food, for which so many animals have to be killed, so many birds have to be killed?"

So Ṛṣabhadeva... It is not new introduction. Ṛṣabhadeva also instructed His boys, princes, that "My dear boys, if you simply indulge in sense gratification, then the result will be that you cannot get real, unlimited happiness." The whole program, austerity, He is advising to His sons, that "My dear boys, this beautiful body, this opportunity, you cannot misuse it simply for sense gratification." But tapa putrakā: "My dear boys, you please accept austerity." Now I have explained what is our austerity. It is very simple, four items of austerity, nothing more. We are not stopping your love or your sex life. No. Simply we are trying to regulate it. That's all. There is no question of stopping your eating or stopping your mating or stopping your sleeping or stopping your defending. Nothing. No stop. But don't increase the degree to the death point. Just like for to live, when we live, we must have some temperature. When there is no temperature, that means he is dead body. But that temperature should not be increased to the 107 degree. That should be controlled. You see. We must have some temperature. Without temperature, if our body is cold completely, then it is finished. Temperature must be there, but not more than 96.6 degree or 98.6 degree. Yes. But if we increase the temperature to 107 degree, that means death. When there is 105 degree temperature the doctors take very precautionary measure so that it may not increase further. And actually I have seen. As soon as one gets 107 degree, he collapses. (end)



690426LE.BOS

Lecture Engagement and Prasāda Distribution

-

Boston, April 26, 1969



*Prabhupāda: This age is called, according to the Vedic language, Kali. Kali*-yuga means the age of disagreement and dissension. So in the Vedas it is recommended that kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu [SB 12.3.52]. In the Golden Age... Of course, the kṛte, the Sanskrit word, exactly there is no English translation, but generally we have got a conception of Golden Age. So take it for granted that kṛte, kṛte means in the age when everyone was pure. Cent percent, people were pure. That is called Kṛta-yuga. The next yuga is called Tretā, when seventy-five percent of the people, they were pure, and twenty-five percent were not pure. And then Dvāpara. Dvāpara means fifty percent-fifty percent pure and fifty percent nonpure. Then this age is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means seventy-five percent or more than seventy-five percent, they are impure, and twenty-five percent, I mean to say, that is in book, but actually ninety percent or more than that are impure and maybe five percent pure. This is the situation of this age. And they are also living very short time. In this age, life, duration of life, is reduced, memory is reduced, man's compassion is also reduced. Similarly, there are so many things, they are reduced. Although we are thinking that we are advancing, but actually the most important things we are reduced. Take for example the duration of life. Every one of us knowing very well that as your father or forefather or grandfather lived for long duration of life, it is very difficult to find out a man who is over seventy years or eighty years. I have got experience. My grandmother lived for ninety-five years.



So the duration of age is reduced, and people are not very intelligent. Of course, it is very revolutionary that I am speaking that people are not very intelligent, but actually it is. Why they are not intelligent? Because they do not know what is the destination of life; *therefore they are not very intelligent. The Bhāgavata says that destination of life is God realization. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. God-realization. In this human form of life we can realize what is God. It is not possible in other form of life. There are 8,400,000 forms of life. You have seen it. There are trees, there are aquatics, there are germs, reptiles, then birds, then beasts, then human beings. Out of this human form of life, more than fifty percent, they are uncivilized, and maybe twenty-five percent of the human beings, they are civilized. And out of them, maybe ten percent are believing in God, following religious principles. In this way the whole thing is being reduced. So in the Bhāgavata it is said that not only they are living for short duration of life, they are not intelligent enough that this human form of life is meant for God-realization. Now, especially nowadays amongst the educated circles, they inquire, "What is God? What is God?" You see. But apart from your country or Western countries, in... I have met in many, many large gatherings of universities. Especially, I am very sorry to say, many Indian students ask me that "What is God?" Now, India is supposed to be the place where God descends as Lord Kṛṣṇa, as Lord Rāmacandra, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So it is very surprising that Indian students are asking, "What is God?" So this is lamentable in this sense, that people are reducing in their sense of spiritual realization. That is a very regrettable fact. And the Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam: "A man is supposed to be defeated in all his activities if he does not inquire what he is." This statement is also in Bible, you know, that "If one loses his own self and he gains all material prosperity, what does he gain?" Actually, this is the fact.

*Therefore Lord Caitanya, five hundred years ago, He appeared in Bengal and He introduced this movement, saṅkīrtana movement*-not whimsically, but according to the tenets of Vedic literature, where it is stated that kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. In the Golden Age it was possible to realize God by meditation, when people were all cent percent pure. Then tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ: "And in next age, God-realization was by offering great sacrifices." And dvāpare paricaryāyām: "And in next age, by temple worship or church worship or mosque worship. Now, at this present age," kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt, "in this age, simply by chanting the glories of the holy name of God." This was introduced by Lord Caitanya. And in India there are millions and millions people who follow these principles, and it may be a new thing in your country, but it is very easy and, I mean to say authorized and immediately realizable. If you follow this one principle, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare... There are sixteen names: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Actually, there are three names only-Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma-but they are very nicely, systematically assorted in sixteen names. It is very easy to chant. Just this evening one American child, girl, she was cycling in the street, and one of my students, she asked her to chant: "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," and she was very nicely chanting.

*So it was... It is not very difficult. Because it is composed in Sanskrit words, it does not mean that you cannot chant. We have experimented. Now, I ask my students... They are all American boys and girls. None of them are Indian or Hindu. Not only here in Boston, but in many other cities like New York and San Francisco, Los Angeles, Buffalo, Santa Fe, Montreal, so they are very nicely chanting and enjoying. Not only that, I have got some restriction. The student who comes to me for initiation, I ask them to restrict some habits. So they are easily doing that also. Just like I ask them not to indulge in any intoxication, including smoking, tea*-taking, coffee-taking. So they are following. And I ask them not to eat meat. These things are very usual things in your country, but my students they are very easily following. They don't feel any difficulty. So this formula, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, this sound vibration, you can practice it. It is not difficult. There is no secret. I don't say that "I have got a secret mantra which I shall give you, and you pay me fifty dollars" or like that. It is open secret. You have simply to accept kindly. Then you see the result. There is no loss on your part, but the gain is very great. Why don't you try it? I request you, most humbly I request you that you kindly chant these sixteen names-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma... We have got our record also. If you want to practice, you can play the record and it will be very easy. So this is my humble request to you American ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. It is not difficult, but it has got a sublime effect. You will find it. If you practice it, you will find it.

*So if you think that "Why we shall chant 'Kṛṣṇa'? Kṛṣṇa was Indian, and it is Hindu god's name," but that is not a fact. Kṛṣṇa never claimed that He is Hindu or Indian or black or white. He doesn't claim anything. He said... Most of you have read Bhagavad*-gītā. He said, He claims,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*Sarva-yoniṣu: "In all species of life, in all forms of life..." There are 8,400,000 forms of life. So Kṛṣṇa claims that "All form of life, not only human being-the beast, the birds, the aquatics, the, I mean to say, reptiles-everywhere, wherever there is life, therefore, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." So Kṛṣṇa claims everyone's father. So He is neither Indian nor Hindu. He is-we accept Him according to Bhagavad-gītā*-He is God Himself. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. If we take authorities of Vedic literature, it is stated in all Vedic literature, in Ṛg Veda, in Atharva Veda, in Brahma-saṁhitā, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and what to speak of Bhagavad-gītā... Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself. He says, mattaḥ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7].



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*dhīra bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*So He claims that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He exhibited, He manifested Himself, as the supreme independent Personality of Godhead. If we read His activities from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, then we can see.



*So there is a definition of God also in the Vedic literature. A great sage, the father of Vyāsadeva, Parāśara Muni, he has very nicely defined what is meant by God, and all the symptoms were visible in the person of Lord Kṛṣṇa. And according to our Indian, Vedic culture, all the great ācāryas, just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, even Śaṅkarācārya... Śaṅkarācārya is considered to be impersonalist, that He believes in impersonal Brahman. So impersonal Brahman is mentioned in all Vedic literature. We also know that. But beyond impersonal Brahman there is Supersoul realization, and beyond Supersoul realization there is the personal realization, the Supreme Personality of God. Bhāgavata says that vadanti tat tattva*-vidas tattvam: [SB 1.2.11] "The Absolute knowledge, the Absolute Truth, is nondual." How it is nondual? Now, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Either you realize the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman or localized Paramātmā, Supersoul, or as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, they are one and the same. How one and the same? That is also explained. So God realization, it is said in the Vedic literatures, that avāṅ-manasā-gocaraḥ. It is very difficult to realize God. He is beyond our mental speculational field; *He is beyond our conception, beyond our words. But there is other verses also, that athāpi te deva padāmbuja*-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam [SB 10.14.29]. One can understand what is God by the mercy of God, not by mental speculation. It is not possible. We have got very limited scope of knowledge. Our senses are imperfect, we are full of cheating propensities, and we are liable to commit mistake. These four defects are within us. However a great man one may be, he is sure to commit mistake. I shall give you one tangible example in the life of Mahatma Gandhi. You know he was a very great man, political leader in India. So he was also very God-fearing man, a very nice soul. But he also committed mistakes so many times. So to err is human. This is a fact in every person. Therefore, because we commit mistake, because we are sometimes illusioned, and because we have got a propensity of cheating others, and because our senses are imperfect, therefore, simply by mental speculation it is not possible to realize God. Then how one can realize God? That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā and other literatures, that by the mercy of God one can realize God. So by His causeless mercy, He comes down. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7], it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So Lord Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead at least by the great ācāryas of India. Even, as I was speaking of Śaṅkarācārya, he was impersonalist, but he has admitted in his commentary on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that sa kṛṣṇa bhagavān svayam. He has accepted. In the beginning of his commentary he said, nārāyaṇaḥ para avyaktāt: "Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is beyond this material creation." And in next page he has admitted, "That Supreme Personality of Godhead Nārāyaṇa is Kṛṣṇa, who is born as the son of Devakī and Vasudeva." So, so far Indian scholars... I don't speak of modern scholars. Those who are authorized scholars of bygone ages, admitted by the Vedic society-Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, and Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka*-and they are stalwarts. And there are many hundreds and thousands of temples of Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, in India. If you have ever gone, you might have seen. In Vṛndāvana, only a small city of people, there are five thousand Kṛṣṇa temples. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very strong and very old in India. And if you also accept this, without any loss on your part, you will be happy. You will be happy. That is the process of peace.

*Now, in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*"The śānti, peace, real peace, can be achieved simply by understanding that God is the proprietor and God is the enjoyer of everything*-that conception." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram. And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "And He is the friend, most intimate friend, well-wisher friend of everyone." And He is seated with everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "My dear Arjuna, the Supreme Lord is seated with every living entity." So according to Vedic literature, Upaniṣad, we understand that the Supreme Lord, in His localized aspect, He is all-pervading. He is present everywhere. Not only that He is present in the church, but He is outside church, everywhere. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayān..., "He is present even within the atom." That is omnipresence. So He is present within you. It is not that you have to search out God anywhere else, but you can search out within yourself. And that searching process is called yoga. Our this subject matter today is yoga. That means to search out your self. Meditation means you have to meditate upon what you are. Are you this body? Are you this finger? Are you this head? You analyze one after another. You will find that you are not this. Then you analyze your mind, whether you are mind, you will find you are not mind also. If you analyze your beyond mind, your intelligence, then you will find that you are not intelligence. Beyond that intelligence, you are sitting. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. And when you find out your self, that is self-realization. And as you become self-realized, the symptoms become that you become jolly and free of all anxieties. So long you are not self-realized, you are full of anxieties. That is the nature, material nature. Not only we, human beings, even birds, beasts, they are also full of anxiety. You give some eatables to the pigeons, to the birds, he will eat and look like this: "Oh, somebody may not come, kill me." Yes. This is the nature. Now, you are American people, supposed to be the richest country. Oh, you have also many anxieties. You are (not) free from anxieties. You are also afraid of China or Russia or somebody else. So how you can be free from anxiety? That is yoga system. If you actually practice yoga system... Yoga system, the whole Bhagavad-gītā is yoga system. It is said in the Fourth Chapter that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. The Lord says that "This yoga system I first of all spoke to the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate. Vivasvata means... The sun-god's name is Vivasvān. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāhuḥ: [Bg. 4.1] "And Vivasvān, he explained this yoga system to his son Manu." Now, if we calculate the age of Manu, it comes to some millions. At least forty millions of years before, it was spoken.



*So this yoga system, Bhagavad*-gītā yoga system, is very popular book and widely circulated. I have seen many English translation of this Bhagavad-gītā in your country. Some of them are translated by American scholars, and some of them are translated by other countries, scholars. But there are many. But unfortunately, none of them have presented Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They have tried to exploit the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and put something of their own idea. This is the defect. But Bhagavad-gītā, if we want to understand, then we have to accept it by the formula as described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like if you have got the medicinal bottle, the direction and dose is on the label, that "Two tablets thrice in a day, after meals," like that. But if you take the tablets according to your own whim or somebody who does not know how to use that medicine, without consulting the physician, then you may be in dangerous position. You will not get the result. That is sure and certain. But you may meet some dangerous position. Similarly, so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, the prime standard book of yoga system, if you want to learn something from Bhagavad-gītā about the peace and prosperity and anxietylessness of your life, then you have to take this medicine of Bhagavad-gītā according to the dose prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā, not outside.

*So what is that dose? That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



*He says, "My dear Arjuna, this yoga system, I spoke to Vivasvān, the sun*-god, some millions of years ago. And Vivasvān explained this yoga system to his son Manu, and Manu explained this yoga system to his son Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: "In such disciplic succession, the confidential knowledge of yoga was coming down, but unfortunately it is now broken, and therefore it is lost." Sa kāleneha yogaḥ naṣṭaḥ. Naṣṭa means it is lost. Now, you can think that when Kṛṣṇa was present five thousand years before, there were many big scholars, learned. Even Vyāsadeva was present. And not only Vyāsadeva, there were others also, great scholars, great sages. But Kṛṣṇa said, sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "In course of time, that disciplic succession being broken, the purport of this yoga system is now lost. And because it is lost, therefore I instruct you to understand this system of yoga." "Why to me? I am not a scholar." Arjuna was a military man, warrior. He was kṣatriya, not even brāhmaṇa, not a Vedāntist, nothing of the sort. He knew how to fight only. That's all. That was his qualification. But Kṛṣṇa wanted to teach him. Why? That is also explained in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhakto 'si: "Because you are My devotee." Therefore, to understand Bhagavad-gītā, the yoga system, one has to become a person of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is bhakta. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si: [Bg. 4.3] "You are My devotee, and you are very dear to Me. Therefore I am explaining to you." So if you want to know the perfect yoga system, then you will know it from Bhagavad-gītā perfectly. It is very easy. And you have to accept it... Because it was spoken to Arjuna very confidentially, bhakto 'si, so as Arjuna understood it... That is also explained in the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, how Arjuna accepted Bhagavad-gītā. In that process, if you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you can practice yoga system at home without any difficulty, and your life will be successful.



*So yoga system is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā in the Sixth Chapter. Of course, I do not know how much time you can spare. I could explain. How much time? It is now 8:15. Anyway, I shall try to explain some of the verses. The haṭha-yoga system, as mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is also prescribed, the haṭha-yoga system, that... [break] Now, He is prescribing the preliminary process of practicing yoga. What is that?

śucau deśe pratiṣṭhāpya

sthiram āsanam ātmanaḥ

*nāty*-ucchritaṁ nāti-nīcaṁ

*cailājina*-kuśottaram



*First of all, to practice yoga, you have to find out a very secret and sacred place. Yogī yuñjīta satatam ātmānaṁ rahasi sthitaḥ. Rahasi means in a secluded place. Yoga practice cannot be done, haṭha*-yoga system, as it is prescribed, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, the eight divisional yoga system, that cannot be practiced in assembly or in a crowded place or in a class. But Bhagavad-gītā says that yogī yuñjīta satatam ātmānaṁ rahasi sthitaḥ. Rahasi sthitaḥ means in a secluded place. Ekākī. Ekākī means alone. Ekākī yata-cittātmā, "controlling the senses and mind." Nirāśīḥ, "without any material desire," aparigrahaḥ, "or taking some help from others." Not that "I shall teach you yoga system by some monetary exchange." This is not yoga system. Aparigrahaḥ. Aparigrahaḥ means one should not expect something from others for learning or manifesting or exhibiting yoga system. Then not only he has to remain alone in a secluded place, but śucau deśe. Śucau deśe means a very sacred place. Pratiṣṭhāpya sthiram āsanam ātmānaḥ. One should have his own sitting place. Not that... That means he cannot change his sitting place. The same sitting place he should continue yoga system. Nāty-ucchritaṁ nāti-nīcaṁ cailājina-kuśottaram. There are skin, deerskins, and then straw mat, and then some soft clothing. In this way there is system of making your āsana, seat.



Then,

tatraikāgraṁ manaḥ kṛtvā

*yata*-cittendriya-kriyaḥ

upaviśyāsane yuñjyād

*yogam ātma*-viśuddhaye



*"In that seat you have to concentrate your mind in order to purify your senses." That is the process. Real yoga process means to purify the senses and purify the mind. Then how one has to execute that yoga system? It is said, samaṁ kāya-śiro*-grīvam. Kāya means this trunk, body, and śira means head, and grīva means the neck. So it should be in a straight line. Samaṁ kāya-śiro-grīvaṁ dhārayann acalam. You should sit in such a posture that it will not move. It will not move. Straight, straight line. Then samprekṣya nāsikāgraṁ svam: "You have to see the tip of your nose, sitting straight line, without any movement, and you have to see the tip of your nose." Samprekṣya nāsikāgraṁ svaṁ diśaś cānavalokayan: "And you cannot see any other side. You have to simply see..." These are the process of concentrating the mind. Then praśāntātmā, by practicing, when you will be completely peaceful. Praśāntātmā vigata-bhīr. Vigata-bhīr means without any fear. And brahmacāri-vrate sthitaḥ, without any sex life. A yogi cannot indulge in sex life. That is the first principle. Brahmacāri-vrata sthitaḥ manaḥ saṁyamya mac-citto: "Concentrate the mind," mac-citto, "focusing the mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Yukta āsīta mat-paraḥ. This is the yoga practice. But unfortunately, who is practicing yoga in this process? Nobody can find out a secluded place; nobody can concentrate his mind in that way; nobody can fix up in one seat; nobody can constantly look on the tip of the nose.



*So there are many other formulas explained here. So therefore, as Lord... And in the Bhāgavata it is stated that kṛte tad dhyāyato viṣṇum: "These processes were tangible or possible to perform in the age which is known as Satya*-yuga, or the Golden Age." Now you will find in these Bhagavad-gītā pages that after explaining the process or practice of yoga system, Arjuna said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, excuse me. I cannot practice it. I cannot practice it. It is impossible for me." Why? "Oh, I am a military man. How can I find out a secluded place? How can I sit in such a way? My mind is always restless. I have to do so many political affairs. So it is not possible for me." So how it is possible for the present-day people, which was refused by Arjuna five thousand years ago? It is not possible. The yoga system is accepted in the Vedic literature, that is a standard practice for self-realization. But the diagnosis of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52], "The yoga system of meditation was possible to be practiced in the Golden Age, or in the Satya-yuga," but not in this age. Then how self-realization is possible? That is said, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt: "Simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa." It doesn't require a secluded place, a sanctified place, or so many rules and regulations. Anywhere you can chant. While you are walking on the street, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You are in meditation. While you are working, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is going to tax you; nobody is going to bother you. You have no loss, but the gain is immense. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is started, and it is easy, it is prescribed. If you at all want to get some spiritual benefit, you try to follow this prescribed method. Just like if you want at all to be cured, you must take the prescription of an experienced physician. Don't take any prescription who is a quack. If you take proper treatment, if you follow the instruction, then you be sure that you get the result out of it.

So in the last, when Arjuna refused, that "Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible. This system is not possible for me," then Kṛṣṇa, as the last standard of this yoga system process, He said plainly that,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*Yoginām, "all kinds of yogis." There are many yogis: karma*-yogī, jñāna-yogī, dhyāna-yogī, hatha-yogī, bhakti-yogī. Yoga system is just like a staircase. Just like in New York, that Empire State Building, that 102-story building. So there is a staircase or a lift. So yoga system is just like a lift to go to the highest perfection of life. [break] ...I mean to say flat (indistinct). Just like karma-yoga. You can approach, you can make progress to the first or second floor. Similarly, by jñāna-yoga, you can make progress to the fiftieth floor. And similarly, by dhyāna-yoga, you can make progress up to the eightieth floor. But by bhakti-yoga, you can go to the highest platform. This is also very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] "If you want to know Me cent percent, then come to the bhakti-yoga." And the bhakti-yoga means this śravaṇam. The first thing is śravaṇa and kīrtana. You simply chant and hear, simple process. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and hear. Immediately you become benefited, immediately, and you get ecstasy. So our humble request is that this is very simple process, recommended process, approved process, and experimental process. If you try it without any loss, but with a prospect of a great gain, then you are requested that you can accept it.



Thank you very much. Now if there is any question, you can ask. No question? Yes.

*Guest (1): You were speaking about the Golden Age, the age when seventy*-five percent of people were pure.



Prabhupāda: No. Cent percent, Golden Age.



Guest (1): How many?



Prabhupāda: Cent percent.



Guest (1): Ten?



Prabhupāda: Cent percent.



Guest (1): Ten?



Prabhupāda: Cent.



Guest (1): Oh, a hundred.



Prabhupāda: Hundred percent. Yes.



Guest (1): Why would they practice yoga at a time when everybody was pure already?



*Prabhupāda: Pure means materially pure. But yoga practice means go to the spiritual platform. Just like in the material qualities, some men are very good men-the quality of goodness*-and some men are in passion. That is the rajo-guṇa. And some men are in darkness. So there are three qualities in the material world: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. So those who are situated in the modes of goodness, they are called perfect in the material world, very good men. That "very good man" does not mean that he is spiritually advanced. He may be moralist. He may be philanthropist, just like so many leaders of nations. That is another thing. The spiritual state is called viśuddha-sattva. Viśuddha-sattva means goodness where no other quality can contaminate. Here even one man is very good man, sometimes he is tinged with passion or ignorance. Just like I told you that Mahātmā Gandhi, he was a recognized good man, but he committed so many mistakes. So pure goodness is not possible in this material world. Pure goodness means spiritual life. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. So because the spirit soul by nature is pure, by nature... As God is pure, similarly, we are part and parcel of God. We are also pure in our original position. But since we have come in contact with this material nature, our inferiority in different qualities or different degrees are present. So for spiritual advancement, one has to come first to the platform of goodness, then pure goodness.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*These things are there. So in the Satya*-yuga, cent percent, or hundred percent people, they were on the platform of the quality of goodness.



Guest (2): If a person is married and they are interested in entering into Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can they reach the ultimate?



Prabhupāda: Why not? There is no restriction. Marriage is sanctified prescription in every scripture. There were many great souls who were married. Marriage is no hindrance.



Guest (2): But what about celibacy?



Prabhupāda: Celibacy is still better. But one cannot, I mean to say, prosecute a celibate life, he can marry. There is no such restriction.



*Guest (3): You talk about different yogas reaching different platforms, like one the twenty*-fifth, one the fiftieth, and one the eightieth. Now, is it really... Does each one really reach the same point? Say one reaches the eightieth. Does it first reach the fiftieth and then the eightieth? In other words, do two yogas get to the same point? Then one can take you further, but the other one...



Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got the alternative. The same example: Just like in that Empire State building there are staircases, and there is lift also. So if you want to go step by step, then you can go. That is your option. But if you take the advantage of the lift, oh, in a second you can go.



Guest (3): And bhakti...



*Prabhupāda: Similarly, there are different yoga processes. If you stick to some process you go little further. Then you take another*-you go little further. But if you take the bhakti-yoga process, it is a lift immediately. Because, as I quoted the verse from Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣām [Bg. 6.47]. Sarveṣām means all. There are different kinds of yogis. So "Out of different kinds of many yogis," mad-gatenāntarātmanā, "one who is thinking of Me always within his heart," mad-gatenāntarāt..., śraddhāvān bhajate mām, "and is engaged in My service with faith and devotion," sa me yuktatamo, "oḥ, he is the first-class yogi." He is the first-class yogi. Because yoga means to contact the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the ultimate goal. So if by some process you can at once contact the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is first class. That is made easy in this age. Simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa, you immediately contact. Immediately. So why not take this process? Why not try? Just give a try and reach immediately. That is our proposal. We request everyone, "Try this process." Yes?



Guest (4): Does devotion come before wakefulness, or does wakefulness come before devotion?



Prabhupāda: Before?



Guest (4): Wakefulness, awareness.



Guest (2): Does devotion come before wakefulness, or does wakefulness come before devotion?



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by wakefulness?



Guest (4): Awareness. Feeling the present, being aware of yourself.



Prabhupāda: No. First you have to execute devotion; then awareness comes. If you do not read or labor for passing your examination, how you can pass examination? So therefore devotion is the prescribed rules and regulation. That is not very difficult. The primary rule is that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see. It is not difficult. Yes.



Guest (5): Should not one try to purify one's heart first and personality?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That will go. Just like if you take proper medicine for curing your disease, the more the disease is cured, you feel healthy life. Pure life means healthy life, and impure life means unhealthy life. So there is a process of bhakti*-yoga, how one becomes purified. The first stage is ādau śraddhā. Just like you have, all ladies and gentlemen, come here with little respect for this, I mean to say, movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the basic principle. A little faith. "Oh, all right. Let us hear about it. Let us see." This is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga. Now, if you think, "Oh, it is very nice. Oh, Swamijī explains very nicely," then you come again. That is called sādhu-saṅga, association. We have got our class. If you want, you can associate with us. Ādau śraddhā tato-sādhu-saṅga tato bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana-kriyā means practice. Just like my students, they came also like this. Not in the beginning they accepted, but he came after attending some lectures, then advanced, then offered that "Swamijī, I want to be your student." That is called bhajana-kriyā. So if he practiced the bhajana-kriyā, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then he becomes purified. This is the process of purification. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Tato niṣṭhā. And as soon as he is purified, he become stuck up to this principle. He cannot give up. Tato niṣṭhā tato ruciḥ. Ruci means he gets a taste for it. Don't you think they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa always... Hackneyed, for others it is hackneyed, but they are feeling pleasure. Tato niṣṭhā tato ruciḥ. Ruci means taste. Tathāsakti. Then they cannot give it up. Tato bhāva. Then ecstasy. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ: "These are the gradual process of developing love of Godhead." And as soon as you develop love of Godhead, your life is successful. Yes?



Guest (6): Can you explain the reason why yogis don't eat meat?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Guest (2): Why shouldn't they eat meat?



*Prabhupāda: Meat-eating, and if you believe in Bhagavad-gītā, is not the..., against the, our purificatory process. You cannot kindle fire, at the same time add water on it. If you want to kindle fire, then you have to keep that place very dry and fan it. Similarly, there are rules and regulations. Out of that rules and regulation is jīva-hiṁsā. Jīva-hiṁsā means unnecessary killing of animals. Now, if you have got sufficient foodstuff*-a state I see in America... You have got sufficient grains, sufficient fruits, sufficient milk, milk products. Then if you can live on these things which are meant for human beings, why should you kill animals unnecessarily? If there is no alternative, that you cannot live... Just like in the desert, Arabian Desert, there is no food, no grain, for them animal-eating may be permissible. Because after all, we have to live. That is a different thing. But when you have got very nice foodstuff, and a very nutritious, palatable, sweet, why should you indulge in this unnecessary killing of animals? That is, will go against your purification. Therefore it is prohibited.



Guest (6): Is the unnecessary killing of animals part of, say, in relation to the incarnation, evolution to manual(?) forms. The objection to doing it is...?



Satsvarūpa: Is the objection to eating meat based on transmigration from animal to man?



Prabhupāda: No, animal can eat... The tiger, he is... By nature, he does not eat food or grain. He simply eats animals. So he can do that.



Guest (2): No, he was saying is the relationship, is the reason why we're not eating meat due to the fact that once we were animals and now we've progressed to human nature, to human form? Does that have any relationship?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The nature is that everyone should eat another animal or another living creature for existence. That is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: "One living entity is the life of another living entity." That is a fact. Just like sahastānām ahastānam. Those who have got hands-that means men*-for them, ahastāni, means the animals who have got no hands. And apadānanaṁ catuṣ-padām: "And the four-legged animals, they eat the grass, who cannot move." So grass has got life, as the animal has got life. We have got life. So this is... Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra: "The strong is eating the weak." So this is the law of nature. We are eating the grains and fruits. They have got also life. It is not that those who are vegetarians, or eating grains and fruit, they are not eating life. They are also eating life. But the bhakti-yoga process is that, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that the devotees, they take prasādam. We have got arrangement of distributing prasādam in every Sunday. Prasādam means the foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa and then you take. So what Kṛṣṇa wants, that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Therefore we are not propagating the philosophy of ahiṁsā, or nonviolence, because in some way or other, there is violence, either you take fruit or grain or animal. But the principle is that you have to take prasādam, the foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa, and then eat. So these things, fruits, grains, are accepted by Kṛṣṇa. We offer to Kṛṣṇa and then eat them. This is the philosophy. Not that because we are eating fruits, therefore we are getting pious, and because... [break] Yes. When you become cent percent purified, then you go to the spiritual world. You haven't got to come back. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante yad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. So purificatory means that we are changing our bodies life after life, transmigrating. Now this is the opportunity. This human form of life is the opportunity to purify ourself so that next life we can get complete spiritual life, full of bliss, knowledge, and eternity. This is the process. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to get the highest perfection of life. And that opportunity is offered to the human society. The animal society, they cannot take advantage. The Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the human society. So if we take advantage of the presentation given by Kṛṣṇa, if we practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is opportunity of becoming fully, cent percent perfect. We have to take advantage of it. That's all. Yes?



Guest (7): To give up matter through the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, to make this contact by using the words of matter, how...?



Prabhupāda: It is very simple. It is sound vibration. Sound is the beginning of all material creation. Everywhere there is sound. So... And God is in everywhere. Therefore He is also in sound. So in sound form we can realize Him. The Kṛṣṇa, the transcendental sound, and the Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is identical. That we have to realize by practicing.



nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya*-mukto

*abhinnatvān nāma*-nāminoḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.133]



There is no, I mean to say, difference between the Supreme Person and His name. Just like in the material conception there is difference. If you want water, simply by chanting, "water, water," your satisfaction will not be there. But in the spiritual world, everything being absolute, there is no difference between the name Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa. Therefore by... And it is the easiest process for you. You can chant this name "Kṛṣṇa." That means by sound contact, you contact the Supreme Person. That is a point of realization. You have to practice it, and you know it really.



Guest: With the use of science(?) and to chant before us?



Satsvarūpa: To chant now?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on chanting. Yes. Thank you very much. You join with us these sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Please, you can try in this class and try to find out how it is nice. (kīrtana, prasāda distribution) Distribute prasāda. Oh, you should have cut it before. Why did you not cut it before? Take somebody and distribute. Take that pot. Distribute one. You can distribute. You supply. You take and supply. Yes. Yes. You take and supply. What is that? Why you have not cut it? It is taking simply time. Cut it. Yes. Go on, take it. You take it. You take it. Supply that. You take and supply that. Take it there. (sounds of utensils and pots) (long pause) Go take that pot. The very pot, you can take. That pot. All right. Take it. Go on. You can wash later. (end)





690429LE.BOS

Brandeis University Lecture

-

Boston, April 29, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



"I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master, who has opened my eyes of ignorance with the torch of knowledge."



*My dear boys and girls, I thank you very much for participating in our saṅkīrtana. It is very simple, chanting the sixteen words Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Actually there are only three words: Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma. It is not difficult. Everyone can immediately, within a second, can chant these three names, Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma. But to make it still easier and suitable, they have been arranged in two lines of eight words each line. That is very rhythmic, and one feels immediately transcendental pleasure to chant. It is not hackneyed. We have chanted about exactly half an hour, but if we chant even twenty*-four hours, you'll never feel tired. That is the significance, practical. You will feel more and more enthusiastic to chant. Our boys and girls do that. In the beginning, of course, you may not understand, but you take to this practice of chanting, you'll feel immediately transcendental pleasure. I saw, although some of you could not join us in dancing and chanting, but you were, from your seat, you were trying to dance. That I have seen. It is practical. We have seen even children, they immediately take to this dancing and chanting. So it is not very difficult. The most easy process of transcendental realization. We don't ask you to press your nose, or put your head downwards, or make some gymnastic. No. In whatever condition you are, it doesn't matter. You simply chant these sixteen names. There is no secrecy. We are not charging any fees, that "You pay me so many dollars, I'll give you a secret mantra, and you chan..." No. It is open. It is distributed freely. Simply you have to take it. That's all. The result will be, oh, great. Make an experiment. You have no loss. You haven't got to pay anything. But if you take this, the result will be very, very great, which has no comparison in this world. That is practical.

*So result is... That is stated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who inaugurated this movement. You see this picture, five learned brāhmaṇas. In the center there is one picture who is Lord Caitanya. He started this movement when He was only seventeen years old, a boy. A boy only*-a schoolboy. He was student, but He introduced this movement five hundred years ago, and some of the elderly men, as you see, one elderly man with beard, He also helped Him, and the others... Actually this movement was originally started by young boys. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu, and Advaita Prabhu, They started. And there was a great agitation against Them by the brāhmaṇas, priestly brāhmaṇas, at that time. So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up these sixteen words from Vedic literature. It is not that He manufactured something. No. In the Vedic way there is no question of manufacturing something, religious process. No. Just like you manufacture law. In your state, privately, you cannot manufacture law. The law is given by the state. Similarly, any process, any process for self-realization, you cannot manufacture. That is to be taken directly from God and His representative. That is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated,

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati...

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



"Whenever there is discrepancies in the religious principle, then," the Lord says that "I appear to establish the real purpose of religiosity." That is going on. So according to our Vedic principle, there is no question of manufacturing a new type of religion. No. So Lord Caitanya introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, not that He manufactured something. No.



*It is stated in the Agni Purāṇa-perhaps you have heard. There are eighteen purāṇas. Out of that, one Purāṇa is called Agni Purāṇa, and another Purāṇa is called Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa. So in these two purāṇas, and many other purāṇas also, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is there, that in this age... "In this age" means this age of Kali, where everything is based on disagreement and dissension. Nobody will agree with others' proposal. Everyone is thinking that "I am independent. I can think in my own way. I can have my own process of self-realization." So many. Therefore it is recommended in this age that for self-realization these mantras, sixteen mantra, should be chanted... Faithfully. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as follows: kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ [SB 12.3.52]. In the Golden Age, when everyone was pious, at that time, meditation was recommendation. Meditation. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum: meditation on Viṣṇu. Tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. In the next age, the recommendation was to perform great sacrifices. And the next age was recommended for temple worship, or church worship, or mosque worship. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ, dvāpare paricaryāyām. Dvapar... Next age, just the age about five thousand years ago, the age was called Dvāpara-yuga. At that time temple worship was very gorgeous and very successful. Now, in this age, Kali-yuga, which has begun about five thousand years past, in this age, it is recommended, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. You can realize yourself simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And if you take to this simple process, result will be that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The rubbish thing which has gathered in your heart will be cleansed. And what is that rubbish thing? That rubbish thing is also described, that yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone... These are the description of rubbish things. Anyone who is thinking this body, this bundle of skin and bones, is the self... This skin and, I mean to say, blood, and intestines, and stools, and urine*-this body means combination of all these nice things, skin, bone... Bone, when you touch, according to our Hindu scripture, one has to take bath. So that bone is within you. Blood is also sometimes accepted as contagious. So this is not the self. Everyone is thinking that "I am this body." This is rubbish thing.

So, if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you will very easily understand that you are not this body; *you are spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman." Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam. That is the first installment, you'll understand. For self-realization, there are so many different processes. There are mystic yogis. There are philosophical speculators. There are karmīs. There are jñānīs. And... But this process, immediately you will realize that you are not this body. You are not matter; *you are spirit soul. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And, as soon as you understand that you are not this body, you are not matter, that you are spirit soul, then immediately you become joyful. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and actually it is a fact. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as one becomes elevated to the platform of spiritual realization, self-realization, immediately he will be free from all anxieties. Material life means full of anxieties. However great you may be, you are always full of anxieties. But if you come to the platform of spiritual realization, immediately you become free from anxieties. This is the test. Simply by advertising that you have elevated to the highest platform stage by taking some drugs or medicine or this way or that way... No. The result will be practical that you will immediately feel joyful. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. And what is the symptom of joyous life? No more hankering, no more lamenting. So long we are in the material stage, we have got two kinds of business: we are hankering after something which we do not possess, and we are lamenting after something we had which we have lost. So as soon as you come to the spiritual platform, then you will understand that "I do not belong to this material world. So what is my gain and what is my loss? I do not belong to this platform at all." Suppose we are sitting in this room. Because I do not belong to this room, if there is some loss in this room or gain in this room, we are not interested. We are not interested. Similarly, this is self-realization.

*So if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, your self*-realization will be possible on the second stage. First stage: you'll realize that you are not matter but you are spirit soul, Brahman; *and the second stage is: ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni means these material anxieties. It is compared with forest fire. Forest fire means in this material world everyone wants to be happy. That is a fact. Everyone. But some, by some cause or by some way, there is a fire just like forest fire. Nobody's interested to go in the forest and set fire there, but there is fire, automatically. Similarly, this world... Nobody wants war, nobody wants famine, nobody wants earthquake, nobody wants disease, nobody wants death, but these things happening. It will happen. Even if you do not want, you cannot, I mean to say, combat all these, I mean to say, attacks of the material nature. That is the way of material nature. Therefore self-realization is the opportunity of this human form of life. This human form of life... According to... Most of you, many of you may be students of anthropology, of Darwin's theory, that the life is evolving. This anthropology long, long years was stated in the Padma Purāṇa. There it is, it is stated, aśītiṁ caturaś caiva bhramadbhiḥ jīva-jātiṣu. Bhramadbhiḥ jīva-jā... These very words are there. These are Sanskrit words. What is that? Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs... That means 8,400,000 species of life, and you have got this human form of life, civilized form of life. This life has to be properly utilized. That is the whole purpose of Vedic literature. It is not to be spoiled like cats and dogs simply for sense gratification. One has to control the sense life or animal life and take to tapa. This very word is used there. Tapa means austerity, penance. We have read in the Indian history that there were many, many great sages, even kings; *they left everything, they went to the forest for practicing austerity and penances. Recent, very recently... Every one of you know it that Lord Buddha... He was also Indian. He was also a kṣatriya, a prince, but he left everything and he went to the forest for self*-realization.

*So the self-realization process is to be achieved by this human form of life. That is... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is indicating everyone. We are teaching that "Don't spoil your this rare human form of life simply by engaging yourself in the matter of sense gratification." Because sense gratification ample, or sufficient sense gratification opportunity you had even in the hog's life. Because we have migrated, we have evolved from hog's life also. Sometimes we had been a hog or a dog or something like that. Now we have come to this stage of life, this life should not be spoiled like the cats, dogs and hogs. But we should have some restraint and realize ourself. This possibility is there simply by chanting these sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This is possible. This is practical. Since I came to your country in 1965... Of course, for one year I was traveling here and there, but in 1966 I established first my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. Then there were many branches now. We have got about sixteen branches all over the country. And these students, they are chanting, and they have taken to the austerity. I don't accept any cheap student or cheap disciple. My first condition is that there is no illicit sex life, there is no intoxication, there is no gambling, and there is no meat-eating. These four principles are there, but all my students in these twenty, about sixteen centers*-one in London, one in Germany-but you will be surprised that all these boys and girls, they have taken to this austerity very seriously. They're not drinking even tea or smoking a cigarette.

*So spiritual life does not mean a whimsical life. It is, first of all basic principle is, that building character. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find that when Arjuna is accepting Lord Kṛṣṇa, he is saying that paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "My dear Lord, Kṛṣṇa, You are the most purest." Purest. Most pure. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma: "You are the Supreme Lord. You are pure." So idea is that if you want to have spiritual life, you have also become, to become pure. Without being pure... That pureness... This evolution means gradual process of purifying process. You are not... You are distinct from cats and dogs means your body is purified than the body of the cats and dogs. So purification required. The first principle of purification are these four regulative principles. So they have taken to this very easily. Some of them, students, they were, six months ago they were not my students, but by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa they have seriously taken to these principles of austerities. That is not... That is stated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. As soon as you come to the understanding that "I am not this ma... I am not this matter; *I am spirit soul," immediately this process will follow, that you will have no unnecessary material demands. Smoking is not a necessary thing, but you have learned it by society or by company. So it is not necessary. It is unnecessary. Similarly, gambling is also unnecessary. Simply... Similarly, illicit sex life is also unnecessary. Oh, all these things are unnecessary, but we have gathered by some association for company. Similarly, you can give it up also, by association. So ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nir... [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And unless you purify yourself, you cannot understand yourself or the position of God.

*It is stated, all these, in the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



*Prasanna*-manaso. You have to first of all place yourself in a platform which is full, free of all anxiety. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso. Prasanna means full of joy, full of life. Evaṁ prasann... That can be achieved simply by practicing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service to the Lord.



*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānam...

[SB 1.2.20]



*This science of God is not a petty thing. You see? We are going to understand the supreme cause of everything. What is God? God means the Supreme, the ultimate cause, or sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like you are searching out what is the cause of this thing, what is this cause of this thing, this thing... Go on searching. When you come to the ultimate cause, that is God. That is explained in the, I mean to say, Vedānta-sūtra. The Vedānta-sūtra, the first code is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now let us discuss about the Supreme Absolute Truth." And immediately the answer is... What is Brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The ultimate source of everything." A simple word. You have to find out the ultimate source of everything, the cause of all causes. Then you have found out God. Don't accept a nonsense as God. Find out the cause of causes, ultimate cause, where there is no more cause. He is the ultimate cause. That is stated in Brahma-saṁhitā and all Vedic literature. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated,



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*This sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam, cause of all causes. Of course, it is not possible to explain all the science of God immediately, within half an hour or fifteen minutes. It is not possible. But our request is that don't spoil your human form of life. You are all young boys and girls. You have got ample time. I am old man. I will die, say, within five or ten years, but you'll live at least for sixty, seventy, eighty years. Culture. Cultivate this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you'll be happy. Your life will be successful. That is all.



*And the method is simple: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare... If you simply chant, that is sufficient for your self*-realization. But if you want to study this philosophy, or the science of God, through your philosophy and argument, logic, we have got enough stock of books. We have got sixty volumes of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Already we have published five volumes. We have got Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have got Teachings of Lord Caitanya. We are publishing Back to Godhead paper. So if you want to understand this philosophy by your learning, by your academic career, we have got sufficient stock to supply you-sufficient stock. Don't think that we are all sentimentalists, simply dancing. No. There is a background. There is a background. If you want... You are educated boys and girls. Try to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Your life will be successful. That is our aim. I'll not take much of your time.

Now, if you have got anything to ask from me, I shall reply for fifteen minutes. Then we shall begin our chanting, and I shall request you that you also join with our chanting. That is our request. Thank you very much. (pause) You have got any question? All right. Thank you. There is no question. Then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



690430LE.BOS

Northeastern University Lecture

-

Boston, April 30, 1969



*Prabhupāda: My dear boys and girls, I thank you very much for attending this meeting. We are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because there is a great need of this movement through the whole world, and the process is very easy. That is the advantage. First of all, try to understand what is the transcendental platform. So far our living condition is concerned, we are in different platforms. So we have to first of all stand on the transcendental platform. Then there is question of transcendental meditation. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Third Chapter, you'll find that we have got different status of conditional life. The first is indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur... [Bg. 3.42]. Sanskrit, indriyāṇi. First thing is bodily conception of life. Every one of us in this material world, we are under this bodily concept of life. I am thinking Indian, "I am Indian." You are thinking you are American. Somebody's thinking, "I am Russian." Somebody's thinking, "I am somebody else." So everyone is thinking that "I am this body." This is one standard, or one platform. This platform is called sensual platform because so long we have bodily conception of life, we think happiness means sense gratification. That's all. Happiness means sense gratification because body means senses. So indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ [Bg. 3.42]. Lord Kṛṣṇa says that in the material concept of life, or bodily concept of life, our senses are very prominent. That is going on at the present moment. Not at the present moment; *since the creation of this material world. That is the disease, that "I am this body." Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata says that yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhiḥ [SB 10.84.13], that "Anyone who has the concept of this bodily understanding, that 'I am this body...' " Ātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu. Ātma-buddhiḥ means concept of self in this bag of skin and bone. This is a bag. This body is a bag of skin, bone, blood, urine, stool, and so many nice things. You see? But we are thinking that "I am this bag of bone and skin and stool and urine. That is our beauty. That is our everything."



*There are many nice stories... Of course, our time is very short. Still, I wish to narrate one short story, that one man, one boy, was attracted by a beautiful girl. So the girl does not agree, and the boy is persistent. So in India, of course, the girls, they keep their chastity very strict. So the girl was not agreeing. So she said, "All right, I agree. After one week you come." She appointed, "Such and such time, you come." So the boy was very glad. And the girl took some purgative throughout the seven days, and she was passing stool, day and night, and vomiting, and she kept all these vomits and stool in a nice pot. So when the appointed time came, the boy came, and the girl was sitting on the door. The boy inquired, "Where is that girl?" She said, "I am that girl." "No, no. You are not. You are so ugly. She was so beautiful. You are not that girl." "No, I am that girl, but I have now separated my beauty in a different pot." "What is that?" She showed: "This is the beauty, this stool and vomit. This is the ingredient." Actually anyone may be very robust or very beautiful*-if he passes stool for three or four times, everything changes immediately.

*So my point is that, as stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that this bodily concept of life is not very sanguine. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. This body, composition of several things like bones and skins and blood and urine and stool and secretions, so many things, that is not right calculation of self-realization. Of course, those who are too much engrossed with the bodily concept of life, they have been recommended to practice the haṭha-yoga system. That is also mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā. Just like you'll find in the "Sāṅkhya-yoga." This Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, as we have published, page number 153, there is a statement how one should practice this transcendental meditation. Verse number thirteen and fourteen, it is said, "One should hold one's body, neck and head erect in a straight line." This body, this body, this head, this neck, and the body, whole body, trunk, should be erect in a straight line, and stare steadily at the tip of the nose. Just like you have to sit like this and you have to look, not closing your eyes but half-closing your eyes, and you have to look on the point of your nose. "One should hold one's body, neck and head erect in a straight line and stare steadily at the tip of the nose. Thus, with an unagitated, subdued mind, devoid of fear, completely free from sex life, one should meditate upon Me," the Lord says. Before that, the primary prescriptions, how one should practice this transcendental meditation, that one has to restrict especially sex life... One has to select a very solitary place and a sacred place, and he should sit down alone. This meditation process is not practiced in a place like this, where many men are gathering. It is recommended, it must be a solitary place, sacred place, and alone. And then you have to sit, or you have to select your sitting place. There are so many things. Of course, those things cannot be explained within few minutes. If you are very much interested, you'll find in this book, "Sāṅkhya-yoga" chapter.

*So one has to, from the bodily concept of life, one has to transcend himself to the spiritual platform. That is the whole, meaning of whole process. Just like I began to say that in the beginning our self*-realization means we are thinking this body. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur [Bg. 3.42]. Then one who has transcended this bodily concept of life, he comes to the platform of mind. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. Manaḥ means mind. Somebody, some people, some of..., practically the whole population of the world, they are under the bodily concept of life, and, above them, there are some people who are on the mental concept of life. They are thinking mind. And somebody is on the intellectual platform of life.

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhiḥ...

[Bg. 3.42]



*Buddhiḥ means intelligence. And, when you transcend the intellectual platform also, then you come to the spiritual platform. That realization first of all required. Before you practice transcendental realization, you have to reach to the transcendental platform. That transcendental platform is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ. Perhaps you have heard this word, Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is transcendentalist, that "I am not this body, I am not this mind, I am not this intelligence, but I am spirit soul." That platform. Then what is the symptoms of a person who has reached that platform? Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. When you reach to the platform of Brahman realization... Brahman realization means transcending. We are talking on the transcendental meditation. So transcending the bodily concept of life, transcending the mental concept of life, transcending the intellectual concept of life, when you come to the real spiritual platform, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage.



*So brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, it is not simply word, that "I have realized Brahman." There are symptoms. Everything has got symptoms, how one has realized Brahman. That stage is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When one is on the transcendental platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, his symptom is that he's always joyful, joyful. There is no moroseness, And what is joyful? That is also explained. What is joyfulness? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He does not hanker after anything, neither he laments. In the material platform we have got two symptoms: hankering and lamenting. The things which we do not possess, we hanker after it: "I must have it. I must have it. I must have this, this, that..." Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ [SB 5.5.8]. There is nice explanation how this hankering, hankering is expanded. This hankering expanded: this whole material world is hankering after sex life. That is the basic principle of hankering. Puṁsāṁ mitho. Puṁsāṁ striyo mithunī-bhāvam etam. This is Sanskrit language. Mithunī-bhāvam means sex life. Either in human society or animal society or bird society or insects'-everywhere you will find that sex life is very prominent. That is materialistic way of life, indriyāṇi, senses. So the everyone... A boy is hankering after a girl, a girl in hankering after a boy, or a man is hankering after woman, woman is hankering... This is going on. This is not unnatural. This is the natural life. And tayor mitho, the hankering is there. But as soon as they meet or unite, it becomes a hard knot, tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ [SB 5.5.8], a hard knot in the heart, that "I am matter. I am this matter. This world belongs to me. This country belongs to me. This body belongs to me." That means hard knot. Instead of transcending from the concept of body life, it becomes still more hard knot. It is very difficult. Therefore those who are practicing yoga, or trying to be on the transcendental platform, the restriction is that one must cease sex life, if you at all interested. But that is not possible. Therefore our, this method, we don't say "Stop sex life," but we say "Don't have illicit sex life." Illicit sex life, of course, even there is no question of transcendent life, that is a question of civilized life. Civilized life. In every civilized society-it may be Hindu society or Muslim society or Christian society*-any civilized human society, there is the system of marriage. And beyond marriage, if there is sex life, that is called illicit sex life. That is never indulged in any society. So what to speak of transcendental life? Transcendental life must be purified from mental concoction or bodily concept of life. It is the transcendental platform. Tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ.

*So these things are very restricted in order to reach that transcendental platform. But in this age, in this age of Kali, where everything is disturbed, always full of anxieties, and the life is very short... That is also explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: prāyeṇa kalau asmin yuge janāḥ. Life is very short, and they are not interested for any transcendental subject matter. They are interested only with the bodily concept of life. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. And always disturbed by so many anxieties. How he can ascend to the platform of transcendental realization? It is very difficult in this age. Therefore Arjuna, who was being taught by Kṛṣṇa that "You try this practice of transcendental life," but Arjuna said... Arjuna means he was taking this instruction five thousand years ago. He was a royal prince. He was very much advanced in so many things. He said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible to practice this transcendental process of ascending by yoga practice, this haṭha-yoga practice. It is not possible." He refused. He refused that "Because I am a family man, I have come here to fight for my, I mean to say, political interest, how I can practice this system, that I have to go to a solitary place, I have to sit down like this, I have to practice like this, I have to cease from sex life? It is not possible." Just try to understand. So transcendental platform by the haṭha-yoga system, practicing all the rules and regulations, is not possible in this age at all. If somebody is trying to practice that thing in so-called ways, that is not... Actually you cannot perform this transcendental meditation in city life. It is not possible. That is very clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You'll read. So you have to live in the city. You have to live with your family. You have to live with your friends. It is not possible to go to the forest and find out a secluded place.

*So here, in this age, if you want to rise on the transcendental platform, then, as it is recommended by Vedic literature, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt: "In this age, simply by chanting the holy name of God..." Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. We are introducing this system not to make it very easy by our mental concoction. It is recommended. It is practiced. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu introduced this transcendental meditational process. You'll see. You have already seen that these boys and girls, as soon as they begin chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately there is a transcendental feeling. If you practice, you will understand how you are feeling transcendentally. The easiest process. Now I have began this movement in this country, say, from 1966. So I began in New York in a small storefront, and gradually they came. Now it is spread. There are about fifteen, sixteen branches all over your country, and these boys are practicing simply, the simplest process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This sound vibration, this transcendental sound vibration, immediately will carry you on the transcendental platform. And if you kindly hear also... You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and try to hear so that your mind is absorbed in the sound vibration. And this Kṛṣṇa sound vibration means Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa is absolute, God is absolute, there is no difference between God's name and God. Just like in the material world there is difference between water and the name "water," the "flower" and the thing, flower, in the spiritual world, in the absolute world, there is no such difference. Therefore, as soon you vibrate this transcendental sound, Kṛṣṇa, Hare, Rāma, immediately you associate with the Supreme Lord and His energy. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... The meaning of this transcendental vibration is Hare... Hare means "O the energy of the Supreme Lord." Everything is being done by the energy of the Supreme Lord. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Just like you have got practical example. This material world means creation of the energy of the sunshine. Every one of you-you are all scientific students*-you know that all these planets, they are rotating on account of heat and light of the sun. And similarly, the whole creation, material and spiritual creation, they are manifestation of the energy of the Supreme Lord. Just like the sunshine is the energy of the sun globe, similarly, there is a supreme planet which is called Kṛṣṇaloka, or Goloka. These things are mentioned in the Vedic literature, Brahma-sūtra, Brahma-saṁhitā. If you want, you can read them. There is immense literature for this information. So we are praying to the energy of the Supreme Lord and the Supreme Lord, "Please pick me up. Please pick me up. I am in this transcend..., the bodily concept of life. I am in this material existence. I am suffering. Please pick me up to the spiritual platform so that I will be happy." Because, as I explained just a minute before, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: [Bg. 18.54] as soon as you come to the transcendental platform, you become joyful, happy. Joy... That is the sign. It is not that simply you say that "I am in the transcendental meditation. I am a..." No. Actually you have to become happy. How you have to become happy? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. There is no hankering; *there is no lamentation. And material life means as soon as we are hankering after sex conjugation, and as soon as there is conjugation, atha gṛha*-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ [SB 5.5.8], as soon as we are united, man and woman, then I want a nice apartment, I want some business, I want some land, I want some friends, I want some society. Similarly, we extend our bodily concept of life. There is no question of transcendental platform.

*So we have to wind up from the material concept of life to the spiritual concept, or spiritual platform. That is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. When... One who is on the spiritual platform, he has no more hankering, no more lamentation. Why he should be hankering? He knows that "I don't want anything material. Why shall I be hankering? Whatever is, I mean, barely required, I must be satisfied with that thing." So that is a, a very, not very nice proposal to the materially advanced world at this present moment. People will not accept it. Therefore this process, transcendental... Yukta-vairāgya. It is called yukta-vairāgya. You just remain in your place. This is the facility of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You haven't got to change your place. You remain. You are student; you remain a student. You are businessman; *you remain businessman. You are woman, man, or anyone, any, black, white, anyone*-you remain in your position. Simply you try to hear. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You just remain in your position. You simply hear. Kindly give your aural reception to this transcendental sound. Very simple process. No charges. We are not charging anything, that "You give us so many dollars, then I shall give you this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa." It is publicly distributed. You simply catch up and try it. You'll... Very quickly you'll come to the transcendental platform, and when you hear the chanting, that is transcendental meditation. This process is recommended in all scriptures of Vedic literature, and it is followed by Lord Caitanya and His disciplic succession for the last five hundred years, and people are achieving good result. Not only in India, here also, the young boys and girls who have joined this movement... You try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how transcendental meditation is possible. We are not sentimentalists. We have got many books. Just like here is our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and Teachings of Lord Caitanya. We have got our magazine, Back to Godhead. We have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, five volumes. So many things. Īśopaniṣad. It is not that we are sentimentalist. We are backed by high philosophical thoughts and everything. But if you take this simple process, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you immediately are elevated on the transcendental platform without reading so many big literatures, philosophy, or understanding. That is the gift to the present conditional souls of the world by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu in accordance with this Vedic sanction.

*So our request*-that you give a try. You simply chant, at home or anywhere. There is no restriction that "You have to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in such and such place, in such and such condition." Niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. There is no restriction of time and, I mean to say, circumstances or atmosphere. Anywhere, at any time, you can meditate. You are... No meditation is possible while you are walking on the street. But this meditation is possible: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And go on with your work. You are working with your hands? You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. So this is very nice. So kindly accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. At the same time, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. Lord Caitanya says that the Lord's name... Lord's name is not, I mean to say, limited with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. And Rāma means the supreme pleasure. So if God is not all-attractive and supreme pleasure, then what is the meaning of God? God must be. He must be the supreme pleasure. Otherwise how you can be satisfied with Him? Your heart is hankering after so many, so many pleasures. If God cannot satisfy you with all the pleasures, Rāma, then how He can be God? Therefore these two names, Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, and all-attractive. If Kṛṣṇa cannot be attractive to any person, then how He can be God? He is attractive actually. So these three names... We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So if you think, "Oh, this is Indian name. This is Hindu name. Why shall we chant? Why shall I chant the Hindu name...?" There are some sectarian people, they may think like that. But Lord Caitanya says, "It doesn't matter. If you have got any bona fide name of God, you chant that. But you chant God's name." That is the prescription of this movement. And do not think that this movement is a proselytizing movement from Christian to Hindu, or Hindu to... No. You remain Christian, Hindu, Jew, or Muhammadan. It doesn't matter. Our process if that if you are really to perfect your human form of life, then try to learn, develop your dormant love of Godhead. That is perfection of life. That is perfection of life. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. You profess any type of religion-then just test whether your religion is perfect or you are perfect, whether you have developed your love for God than any other love. We have distributed our love in so many things. When all those love will be concentrated simply on God, that is perfection of life. Love is there, but because we do not know, because we have forgotten our relationship with God, therefore we are imposing our love on dog. That has been our disease.

*So we have to transfer our love from so many dogs to God. That is the perfection of life. And we are not teaching any particular type of religion. We are simply teaching that you love God. And this is possible simply by chanting these three names, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare... It is sixteen names. Actually there are three names: Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma. Rāma means the supreme pleasure, Kṛṣṇa means all*-attractive, and Hare means the energy. Then it is perfect. Energy and the Lord, that is whole sum and substance of all creation, cosmic manifestation, anything. They are detailed in this Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but that is the sum and substance of everything.

*Thank you very much. Any questions? [break] I told you. Kṛṣṇa means all*-attractive. Have you got any idea, all-attractiveness? How one can be all-attractive, have you got any idea? Will any of you explain? Yes.

Devotee: By taking everything as prasāda?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, how He can be all*-attractive? That is explained. I will explain what is Kṛṣṇa, all-attractive. We have got idea. If one man is very rich, he is attractive. If one man is very strong, he is attractive. If one man is very beautiful, he is attractive. Man or woman, it doesn't matter. If one man is wise, he is attractive. In this way there are six opulences: richness, strength, influence, beauty, wisdom, and renunciation. When these six things are in complete in one person, that is all-attractive. So Kṛṣṇa exhibited all these things, six opulences, in one person. Therefore He's all-attractive.



Student: You said something about the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Er, is He the energy that divides the energy from everything, or is He all...? Everything comes down to just another form of energy, another form of complexity, so that everything is suited to one thing and yet it's different?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like by electric energy you have got heater, at the same time, cooler also. The energy is one, but in one place it is utilized for heating; in another place it is utilized as cooling. Similarly, this, er... Take the energy of sunlight. The sunlight is one, but by the sunlight some flowers are becoming red, some flowers are becoming blue, the leaves are becoming green. So everything is due to the same energy, sunlight, but the variety is there. Variety is there. So energy may be one. Just like in your country, by electric energy you are working in so many ways. So do not, I mean to say, make minus all these varieties, the energy in diverse varieties. Therefore the whole conception is, Brahman conception is, that unity in diversity. Everything is working by the energy of the Supreme Brahman, and in the energy we have got different diversities. So we cannot neglect the diversities, although the energy is one.



Student: God is a state of mind?



Prabhupāda: No. That I have explained, that we have different stages of understanding. The first stage is this bodily concept of life. That is material and gross. Then mental stage, that is finer, subtle. And intellectual stage, that is still subtler. And you have to transcend all these stages, up to intellectual stage. That is spiritual stage. God is complete spirit, full spirit.



Indian woman: Is God the one energy you speak of?



*Prabhupāda: God is... What is your question? "God is one energy?" No. God is not energy. God is one, but He has diverse energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. In the Vedic literature we understand that God is one, but His energies are many, multi*-energies. We are also one of the energies of God, we living entities. We are also energy. That is stated in the, er... Apareyam itas tu vidhi me prakṛtiṁ parā. Lord Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "These material energies, namely fire," I mean to say, "earth, water, fire, air, mind, intelligence, ego, they are inferior energy. Beyond these inferior energy, there is another, superior energy. That superior energy is called jīva-bhūto mahā-bāho. These living entities, they are superior energy." Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat: [Bg. 7.5] "They are," I mean to say, "ruling over these material energies." So living entity is superior energy, and this material energy is inferior energy. Therefore we are trying to control over the material energy, but because we are very small, it is not possible to have full control over the material energy. After all, this is energy of... Just like we can utilize the sunshine some way or other, but it is not possible for us to utilize the whole sunshine. It is not possible. So that is called māyā. The superior energy, living entity, is trying to control over the inferior energy, material energy, but because we are very minute, small, it is not possible to have full control over the material energy. Rather, we are being controlled by the material energy due to our smallness. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter. If you are interested, you'll find.



Student: You say there's pure joy in achieving the transcendental platform. Why? Why necessarily joy and not sorrow?



*Prabhupāda: Because you are seeking after joy. Because you are originally transcendental, spirit soul. You're hankering after. Your business is to come to that platform of joyfulness. But you are somehow or other put into this material platform. You are not having fulfilled your joy. Just like you belong to this land, and if you are put into the ocean, Atlantic Ocean, however expert swimmer you may be, you cannot be happy. You have to come back to the land. Then you can be happy. Similarly, we are all spiritual souls, spiritual sparks. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine means there are molecular parts of shining principles. Similarly, we are also molecular parts and parcel of God, who is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra... He is full of joy. So we, as part and parcel also, we are full of joy. So unless we come in contact with the Supreme, our joyfulness will never be fulfilled. Therefore we have to come to the spiritual platform if we want to have that full spiritual or full joyfulness, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. (end)





690501LE.BOS

Lecture Excerpt

-

Boston, May 1, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...and, I mean to say, ornament Kṛṣṇa, the more you become rich. The reflection... Kṛṣṇa being richly dressed, richly fed, it will be reflected on you. Kṛṣṇa is not in necessity, but we should dress Kṛṣṇa with the first*-quality ornaments. In India, the Deities, They are given very, very valuable jewelry. The Muhammadans were attracted for these jewelries. They came to India to plunder the temples to get the jewelries. Still in temples there are millions of dollars of jewelries, temple. In Jagannātha temple there is a valuable jewel just here. It is kept here in a pocket. So the Deities should be very nicely dressed. That will be temple worship. At the same time should also chant. (break-end)





690503LE.BOS

Lecture at International Student Society

-

Boston, May 3, 1969



(kīrtana led by Satsvarūpa dāsa)

*Prabhupāda: (recites maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your participating with us in the saṅkīrtana movement, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to awake the sleeping living entities. In the Vedic literature, Upaniṣad, we have these verses, which says, uttiṣṭha jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. The Vedic voice, transcendental voice, says, "O humanity, O living entity, you are sleeping. Please get up." Uttiṣṭha. Uttiṣṭha means "Please get up." Just like when a man or a boy sleeps past, and the parents, who has got knowledge that he has got to do something important, "My dear boy, please get up. It is now morning. You have to go. You have to go to your duty. You have to go to your school." Just like responsible parents, fathers, mothers, they awake the sleepy, indolent boy, similarly, the Vedas are considered as the mother of the human society. So Vedas, it is crying, uttiṣṭha: "Please get up. Please get up." And what is that sleeping? Sleeping means just like when we sleep we forget ourself. Anyone, either common man or very rich man, when he's fast asleep he forgets himself. Sometimes he dreams. Although he is sleeping in very nice apartment, nice bedstead, but he is dreaming that he is thrown into the ocean or into the fire or something like that. Sometimes he is dreaming that he is flying in the sky*-so many things dreaming. Everyone, you have got experience. Similarly, our this state of consciousness, material consciousness, is on the sleeping state, in the darkness of sleeping state. We do not know. We do not know what is my identity. We do not know wherefrom we have come in this place, where we have to go. Neither they have any information whether there is life after death. Very gross understanding, just like animals. Animal is standing, eating some grass. Although next moment he'll be taken to the slaughterhouse and he'll be killed, but he has no information. He is very happy eating the grass. And even if it is informed, "My dear Mr. Ox, you are eating grass here very happily. Just half an hour after you will be taken to the slaughterhouse. You go away from this place," but he has no knowledge. The grass-eating is very palatable to him than to take protection from being killed. So this is called ignorance, ignorance, sleeping state. Therefore the Veda is crying, uttiṣṭham jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhatam, kṣurasya dhārā niśitā duratyayā: "You have got now this human form of life, a great boon, not like animal. Please do not therefore waste your time sleeping like animals simply in the matters of eating, sleeping, mating and defending." That is the verdict of Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15].



*Therefore, human life should be very much responsible. This life is the preparation for the next life. Next life we have always, but we do not know what kind of life we are getting next. That we should know. That is the business of human form of life, not to waste life like animals and evolve. By the laws of nature, we get another form of life. We are evolving by the evolutionary theory. It is not theory. Of course, Mr. Darwin has called it theory, but in the Padma Purāṇa, Vedic literature... This evolutionary process is very nicely explained in Vedic literature. Aśītiṁs caturaś caiva bhramadbhiḥ jīva-jātiṣu. These Sanskrit words are there in the Padma Purāṇa, that "A living entity is traveling or evolving from lower grades of life to the higher grades of life in 8,400,000 species of life." There are 900,000 species of life in the water. There are 2,000,000 species of life of plants and vegetables. Similarly, microbes, reptiles, there are 1,100,000 species of life. Then birds, 1,000,000 species of life. Then beasts, four-legged beasts, there are 3,000,000 species of life. Then, from beastly life, he comes to the human form life. There also variety, 400,000's of varieties. In this way we come to the point of civilized human form of life. The evolution is coming. Just like we evolve our body or grew our body from the womb of our mother. It is stated... Everything is there in the Vedic literature. After the sex intercourse of the man and woman, there is an emulsification of the two kinds of secretion. And in the first night there is a pealike form that takes place. Then he grows, growing. Then many holes come out of that pealike form*-that becomes our eyes and other nine holes. In this way the body is developed in seven months. Then the child gets consciousness, and he feels very much inconvenience. Therefore moves this side, that side. Then, if he is fortunate, he prays to God, "My Lord, please save me from this inconvenience, this position." Just imagine, airtight packed. In this way he comes up and cries, and again grows. But after coming out, he does not..., he forgets in what position he was. But mother, father takes care. He forgets, again grows. So this evolution is going on. In the material stage of our life, we have got birth, growth, sustenance, by-product, then dwindling, then this body vanishes, again accepting another body. This is called cycle of birth and death. But in this human form of life one can understand what he is, what is this world, who is controlling, what is God, what is his relationship with God, what is this time factor, what are his activities. These things are to be learned, not that simply like animals, cats and dogs and hogs, whole day working for getting food. You see? And satisfied only by some sense gratification, business finished. No. That is animal life. Simply people are engaged for eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That is the modern trend of civilization. Everyone is busy how to eat and how to sleep nicely in big palatial building, nice apartment, very good room, sleeping, the business of sleeping. And economic condition, developing the business of economic condition, means the business of eating. And defending-either you defend with atomic energy or with your nails and claws, the process is defending. That is in the animal life also. And mating, sex intercourse or sense gratification.

*So human life is not meant for simply for these four kinds of business. There is another business. Therefore the Veda says, uttiṣṭhaṁ jāgratam: "Please get up. Don't be sleeping simply for these four principal things(?)." These are not problems, eating, sleeping, mating, and... The Vedic literature says, "Wherever you take your birth, the eating, sleeping, and mating and defending is there, even in animal life." Suppose there is a cat. It knows how to eat, it knows how to sleep, it knows how to mate, and it knows how to defend. The dog also knows. The hog also knows. So do you mean to say scientific advancement of education is simply for this purpose*-how to eat, how to sleep, how to mate, and how to defend? No. That is not human civilization. These are bodily needs undoubtedly, but we are not body. That we do not know. We are spirit soul. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā very nicely in a very common sense words:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



Just like within this body there is soul, and it is changing bodies, from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age. And then again, when the body is useless, no more, cannot be maintained, then we will give up this body and accept another body just like we change our dress." That is going on. So I am eternal. Although I am old man, I can understand what I was in my childhood, in my boyhood, youthhood. So body has changed, but I am existing. This is very simple thing. Everyone can understand. Therefore I, as spirit soul, I am not body. Body is changing; I am different from body. Therefore change of this body does not mean I am finished. I am continuing. Therefore I should be responsible: "What kind of body I am going to accept next?" That is my responsibility. If you don't take this responsibility, "What kind of body...?" It may be, if I am of doggish mentality, my next life will be just a dog because I will have to accept the dress of a dog. And if I am evolving my godly mentality, then I'll have to accept, or I will accept another body just like God. So that is in my hands.



*So in the modern educational system, universities, there is no such information, we see. It is very lamentable, but these knowledges are there in the Vedic literature. The summary of all Vedic literature is Śrīmad*-Bhagavad-gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There are many other literatures-Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, eighteen Purāṇas. They are meant for human society, not for these cats and dogs. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to awake people to their rightful position, which is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to understand how he is related with Kṛṣṇa. When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means God. The word Kṛṣṇa, Sanskrit word, means all-attractive. So without God, nobody can be all-attractive, all-powerful, all-opulent. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is directed to awake people to the rightful position of his spiritual existence, the, I mean to say, process. Of course, there are many different kinds of processes recommended in the Vedic literature. Just like some of you, or any one of you, know that one process is very important process which is called meditation, dhyāna. So that dhyāna, that is also mentioned, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. This meditation process was possible to be executed in the age when people were very pious and very honest and the duration of life was very long. That is called Golden Age, or Satya-yuga. According to Sanskrit word, it is called Satya-yuga. This meditation process was possible to be executed in the Satya-yuga, Satya millennium. Then the next millennium, Tretā-yuga. There is a great description of these yugas. In the Satya-yuga, people used to live for hundred thousands of years. People used to live. It is not that, that according to the modern anthropologists, they say that ten thousand years ago there was no human being. These are the not the Vedic version. We do not accept this version, because we find that there was age, which is called Satya-yuga, when people used to live for one hundred thousands of years. The next age, Tretā-yuga, when people used to live for ten thousands of years. The next age is called Dvāpara-yuga, when people used to live for one thousand years. Now it is called Kali-yuga, when people can live, utmost, one hundred years. These are the calculation of different ages.

*So Vedic literature informs us that the meditation process was possible to be successful in the age which is called Satya*-yuga, when people used to live for hundred thousands of years. The next age, Tretā-yuga, the self-realization process is offering sacrifices. And the next age, Dvāpara-yuga, when people used to live for one thousand years, the recommendation is temple worship or church worship, like that. But in this age the recommendation is kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Kalau. Kalau means in this age, when duration of life is very short. Actually, although officially the age is calculated that we can live for one hundred years, but nobody goes up to that limit. Most utterly, very old man means eighty years or eighty-five years. That's all. But gradually, the duration of age in this period will decrease so much so that it is stated that if a man lives for twenty to thirty years, he'll be considered a very old man. That is also predicted. So we are gradually declining in our strength, in our duration of life, in our memory, in our merciful activities, so many things. So in this age there is no time for meditation, there is no money for offering great sacrifices, neither people are very much interested in temple worship or church worship. Therefore, wherever you remain, you can simply chant this mahā-mantra-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. That is the recommendation of Vedic literature. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Simply by chanting these sixteen names, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare... There are actually three words only-Hare, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma-but they are set up very nicely.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just according to the direction of authoritative Vedic literature, and we are distributing this knowledge without any charge. We don't say there is any secrecy. It is wide open. Open secret. Anyone can take up these sixteen names and chant. And test it, chanting, say, for a week, and see the result. See the result, how you are spiritually realizing yours. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you go on chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then first installment of your gain will be that you will understand that you are not this body, you are spirit soul, which takes at least many years to understand, that "I am not this body." Everybody... You ask anybody, "What you are?" He will say, "I am this, sir, this and that. I am American. I am this body. I am that body." But nobody knows that he is not this body. But if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the first installment of your gain will be that you will realize yourself, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body, but I am spirit soul. I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord." And as soon as you come to this platform of understanding, then the next stage will be you will (be) jolly. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20] means self-realization, when one understands that "I am not this body." Due to this body, all sufferings are there. That we do not understand. We simply go to the physician. Although we know the body is the temple of all kinds of diseases, but we do not know how to get out of this material body. But there is possibility. There is a statement in the Bhagavad-gītā, you will see, that,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti (mām eti) kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



We do not care for it. This is the animalistic life. Just like animals, they do not care. They are suffering, but they have no remedy. Simply eating, sleeping. This is not civilization. This is not civilization. There are ample informations. Take advantage of this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and be benefited. That is our mission. Uttiṣṭhata: "Please get up. Don't be asleep."



*So we have got this literature printed in English. Bhagavad*-gītā is already printed in so many editions, but unfortunately, those Bhagavad-gītās are interpreted in their own interest. You see? Therefore we have published this Bhagavad-gītā. It is the essence of all Vedic literature, Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You have to learn Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't interpret in your own way. There is no possibility. But people do it, and foolish persons, they accept it. No, there is no question of interpretation. The first verse of Bhagavad-gītā is,

*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*So these are plain truths. Kurukṣetra... Still there is a place of the name Kurukṣetra near Delhi. And people interpret, " 'Kurukṣetra' means this body." We do not know wherefrom he gets this meaning, what is that dictionary. Now, how he can establish? Kurukṣetra is still existing, and it is called dharma*-kṣetra; *it is a place of religious pilgrimage. So everything is clear. There is no need of interpretation. Simply you have to take the teachings. Then you will be benefited. So in this Bhagavad*-gītā you will find so many nice information that if you see... If you don't see, that is another thing. You have to see that "Why I am put into so many miserable conditions of life although I do not want it?" That should be your question. If this question does not arise in your mind, that means still you are in the animal state of life. That is the human stage of life, when one inquires that "I do not wish to suffer. I do not want this suffering, but I am put into this suffering. Why?" This "why," for this "why," there is Upaniṣad which is called Kena Upaniṣad. So this "why" question must be there in the developed stage of human consciousness. And when that "why" question comes, there is an answer. There is answer in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and all Vedic literatures. So although people are not very much interested with all these questions and answers, but they are essential. If they do not question and seek for the answers, then they are simply wasting their the opportunity of human life. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

*yad indriya*-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

[SB 5.5.4]



The Ṛṣabhadeva says that "People have become mad after sense gratification." Pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And they are doing which they should not have done, but they do not know that "By doing nonsense things we have got this body, which is so much miserable." And still, he's preparing for another miserable body.



*So this is not very good. These things are there. Although people have no interest in all these questions and answers, but it is our mission to awake people to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Although it is not possible that cent percent people will accept this or try to understand, but if one man can understand, one woman can understand, then our mission is successful. The subject matter is very difficult, but we are prepared to convince any man to this understanding provided he is serious to understand. But we don't... Very little, very few men are interested to understand this philosophy seriously. Simply they are busy with process of sense gratification, and if somebody comes, "All right, you go on with your sense gratification. You simply meditate for fifteen minutes, and within six months you become God," these bluffs like this will be accepted very easily. But we are not meant for giving people false information. We are trying to give you information from authoritative scriptures, Vedas. And if you are fortunate enough, you will take this information, try to understand by your reasoning, by your logic, and adopt it, and your life will be sublime. Your life will be successful. Otherwise you will be put into the cycle of birth and death and going on, and sufferings will continue. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, therefore, it is said,

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



"One who has attained the highest perfectional stage of life, he comes to Me. He comes. Then he hasn't got to come back again in this miserable condition of material existence." These things are there.



*So our business is to inform you. Just like one of the devotees of Lord Caitanya, he said that padayor nipatya, "Falling down on your feet," padayor nipatya, dante nidhāya tṛnakaṁ padayor nipatya, "taking a blade of grass on my mouth and falling down on your feet with flattering and informing you, 'My dear sir, you are very learned man. I know that. But for the time being, please set aside all your learning. Kindly hear what Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says.' " We belong to that sect, Lord Caitanya's disciplic succession. So our business is falling down on your feet and flattering you and making many, I mean to say, salvation(?), I mean simply we request you that try to understand this philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You will be benefited. The so*-called knowledge, so-called elevation, so-called upliftment, oh, this will be all finished as soon as your body is finished. But you are pure soul. You have to educate yourself how your soul can be saved from this cycle of birth and death within the species of 8,400,000's in different planets and different places. Just try to elevate to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead. That is the mission of your human life. Don't lose this opportunity. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is easy thing, Hare Kṛṣṇa, only sixteen names. Anyone can chant. Even the child can chant. You try it. There is no payment; there is no loss. But you try it and you'll be benefited. That is our proposition.

Thank you. Any question? So no question from the audience? Yes?

Woman (1): I want to know what it means, "If you touch the element, then you can be healed."



Prabhupāda: You touch the element?



Woman (1): "If you touch the element, you can be healed."



Prabhupāda: You can be healed? What do you understand by this healing?



Woman (1): Well, if you can be healed if you touch the element, I want to know how this is.



Prabhupāda: No. Healing means that you have got some pain, and to get out of the pain, is that not healing?



Woman (1): I don't have a pain... No, I mean...



Prabhupāda: Now, healing, because the word healing, the word healing means if somebody has got some trouble or pain, that healing is sought after, how to heal it. Is it not? What do you think? Healing? Anybody? What is the meaning of healing? Will you inform this old lady. She says she does not know what is the meaning of healing.



Woman (2): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Illness means suffering. Is it not?



Woman (1): No. I don't mean that at all. It's sort of a truth, that if we touch the element, touch the element...



Prabhupāda: What is that element?



Woman (1): I don't know. I'm asking you.



*Prabhupāda: Element, we generally mean, there are five elements. [break] That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



So you, the spirit soul, you are above the intellectual platform. So this dress is the gross, gross covering. It has nothing to do with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But just like you go to your office, you dress in some way, similarly, this is a particular type of dress. It is sanctioned by our predecessors. We adopt. So if you don't accept this dress, that does not mean you cannot be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be achieved in any condition of life. It doesn't matter whether you are dressed in this way or in your American way or any way. That doesn't matter. It has nothing to do.



Woman (3): But I would think, sir, that that does make a little bit difference that you feel that way.



Prabhupāda: Yes, it makes a psychological condition if you dress. Just like if you dress yourself just like a queen, sometimes you feel, "I am queen." You see? Just like an actor in a theatrical stage, or if you sit down on a car, you think that you are much elevated. These are temporary, but they are not very important. If you have no objection to accept this dress, that's nice. But if you have got objection, then we have no objection. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different from this dress or that dress. Just like a policeman, police constable, he is dressed in a different type than ordinary gentleman. But that does not mean simply by dressing, he is a perfect policeman. Even without dress, he can become a perfect policeman.



Woman (4): It is motivation. It is just like policeman. He feels...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to make others know that he is a policeman. But his business does not depend on that dress. Similarly, our this dress may be advertisement to others that "We belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness group." That is another thing. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not depend on dress. Ahaituky apratihatā. Without any reason and without any impediment. Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be executed without any material condition. There is no material condition for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (aside:) Why you are late? (chuckles)



Devotee: Somebody gave him the wrong address.



Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. It is better late than never. (laughter)



Woman (5): It sounds like whenever you have a conflict, problem...



Prabhupāda: Not whenever. You have got always a problem. It is not... Because we have got this material body, we are simply meeting problems. That's all. You're simply thinking that "This is good problem, and this is bad problem." But on account of possessing this material body, beginning from this body, just like a pealike form within the womb of mother, till death, it is simply problem. If you do not understand it, then it is our less intelligence. That is called sleeping.



Woman (5): But when you have a real problem, because...



Prabhupāda: Real, everything is problem with this body. Everything is problem. Beginning from the birth of your this body, manufacturing of the body by father and mother, it is a problem. Therefore a serious man will always think how to get out of this problem, setting aside all other problems. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. How to get out of this material body. It is not that "This is small problem; this is big problem." The whole body, material body, acceptance of material body, is problem. The disease... Yes.



Woman (4): But you have to accept the problem because you have the body.



Prabhupāda: That's it, to make the best use of a bad bargain.



Woman (4): I wouldn't think so bad bargain. If you have a bad body, that's a bad body...



*Prabhupāda: It is a bad bargain because there are four problems. Even if you are very rich, you have no economic problem, you've got everything(?), but you have to take birth, you have to die, you have to suffer from disease, you have to accept old age. These problems you cannot avoid. Either you are rich man or poor man or American or Indian or white or black, it doesn't matter. The problems, the four problems of material existence, will always trouble you. Nobody wishes to die, but he has to die. Nobody likes disease, but he has to suffer from disease. So these are the problems. If you don't think they are not problems, then you are less intelligent. You have to become more intelligent. The animals, they don't care for death. Now, here is a slaughterhouse. Another animal is being killed, and this animal, little grass, oh, he is happy. He does not know that "Next moment I am going to be killed." This is ignorance. Ignorance means animal life, and knowledge means human life. Therefore there is so much educational system in every human society. Why? Knowledge means human life, and ignorance means animal life. So why should we be ignorant of these four problems, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9], the problems of birth, death, old age and disease? Why you set aside these problems and think you are happy? That is animal life. They don't care for the problems, and eating grass. That is animal life. Yes?



Man (6): What do the, what is normally called pleasure, like eating, sleeping, sex...



Prabhupāda: Defense.



Man (6): What part do they play when a person's reached this higher level of consciousness?



Prabhupāda: They also eat, they also sleep, they also mate, they also defend, but there is adjustment.



Man (6): But how could there... Is it more pleasurable?



Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...not more vegetable. There is more vegetable also. An elephant eats hundred pounds' vegetables at a time.



Man (7): Is it more pleasurable?



Prabhupāda: What is that? Oh. More pleasurement? Oh. There is no question of pleasure or distress. Pleasure must be there always, but it is the question of curing. Just like when you are under the treatment of an expert physician, he says that "You shall eat like this. You shall sleep like this. You shall mate like this. You shall do like this," so it may not be pleasure, but if I want to cure myself, we have to accept the physician's direction. It is pleasure because the physician is taking him to the healthy state of life. So as soon as he gets that he is getting healthy or he is getting out of the diseased condition, that becomes pleasurable-"Oh, yes, I am being cured. I am being cured." So apart from that point of view, it is not the question of whether it is pleasurable or nonpleasurable, but (if) you want to cure yourself from the disease, you have to follow the directions. That is the process. Yes.



Man (6): But... But I need pleasure.



Prabhupāda: Therefore it is called tapasya. The Sanskrit word is tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some unpleasurable thing, voluntarily. That is called tapasya.



Man (6): What relationship...?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotee: He wants to know what relation the body and the mind have to a higher level of consciousness.



*Prabhupāda: As you can see, the difference of body and mind between animal and human being. Is there no difference? Do you think animal body and human body and human consciousness and animal consciousness is the same? So you have to elevate yourself. As you have elevated yourself from animal consciousness, animal body, to this beautiful human body, similarly, you have to still more elevate yourself to higher standard of life. They are called demigods. But the final stage is to get a body which is called spiritual body in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. That is the perfection of... This evolutionary process is going on. As you have come up so much to this civilized form of life from animal status, similarly, you can still make progress. But in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is recommended that by progressing, you may go to the topmost planet of this universe. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl-lokāḥ [Bg. 8.16]. That is called Brahmaloka or Satyaloka. But everywhere the four problems of birth, death, old age, and disease are there. But if you come to the spiritual sky and the planets there, then there is no more death, birth, old age, and disease. Life eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful life. That should be attained, that should be endeavored in this human form of life, setting aside all others. That should be the business of human life.



Man (6): How do you explain suicide?



Prabhupāda: Suicide is killing the body. What is that explanation? Untimely. Untimely. Suicide means that you were given some body to suffer or enjoy for a certain time according to your last fruitive activities. Now, if you commit suicide, that is just like a prisoner is condemned to live in the prisonhouse for six months, but some way or other, if he gets out of the prison, when he is again caught, then he is punished to remain there for one year more. Suicide is like that. You are having a particular type of body that is given to you for enjoyment or suffering according to your last work. If you finish it untimely, then you have to accept such body again, and the duration will be extended.



Man (6): I'm not sure that I understand you. You mean that suicide is putting an end to suffering which was...



Prabhupāda: Suffering you cannot end in that way. Just the same example, that if you get out of the prison some way or other, that does not stop your suffering. As soon as you are arrested, you are put again. The law of nature is not so insignificant that simply by suiciding, you'll stop suffering. No. You have to accept again body and have to suffer.



Man (8): Excuse me. But how do we know that we're going to have a body in the next life?



Prabhupāda: There are books, knowledge books, books of knowledge. Therefore I am speaking of Vedic knowledge.



Man (8): Books can be wrong also.



Prabhupāda: No, why...? Then you are wrong also. You are learning from books. What is your education? You are learning from books.



*Man (8): No, but we read these things from Bhagavad*-gītā, as it...



Prabhupāda: No, no. What is your education? What is your process of knowledge?



*Man (8): Well, the process of knowledge*-you are reading something in the form of authority.



Prabhupāda: That's their way. So similarly, you take the books of authority, Vedic knowledge. You have got all knowledge.



Man (8): No, but lot of times, books you read one thing, and lot of times, as soon as you've taken to it... You don't understand it. Few days more... Something wrong from what you wanted to know.



Prabhupāda: What is wrong?



Man (8): Suppose you read a book of one kind.



*Prabhupāda: No. You have to select the authoritative books, not "kind." Just like lawbooks. Oh, there is no "one kind" of lawbook. Lawbooks means that is given by the state. That is one lawbook, only one. That cannot be two. It is not that you take lawbook from other state or other authority. No. Lawbooks means it is the books, it is the laws, which is given by the state. Similarly, our process is to accept the Vedas, not other kind of books. There is no question of other kind of books. Only Vedas. Just like we are speaking of Bhagavad*-gītā. So that is one, not "other kind of Bhagavad-gītā." Bhagavad-gītā is one.



Man (8): But that one may be also wrong.



Prabhupāda: Why?



Man (8): Why not? You take philosophy wrong. You won't take from another script(?).



Prabhupāda: No. If you take in that way, then it is not book of authority. If it is wrong, then it is not book of authority. The Vedic literatures are accepted, fundamentally accepting that they are not wrong. They are not cheating. They are fact. Without this understanding there is no question of accepting any book.



Man (8): But who makes the background? (?)



Prabhupāda: It is coming from... Who makes you that you are son of such and such gentleman? Who makes you convinced?



Man (8): Okay, but I have to convince myself. Suppose my father is only one.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Man (8): If I change my father's name to somebody else... What...?



Prabhupāda: You cannot change your father's name.



Man (8): Why not? Who knows?



Prabhupāda: Who knows me?



Man (8): You cannot prove everything by one authorized man. Another authorized man, he can change the words. Anybody can. Prabhupāda: No. If he is a perfect man, then he will not change because he knows the thing, "Yes, it is this." But if he is imperfect rascal, then he will change.



Man (8): How do you know that person who wrote it was perfect?



Prabhupāda: That you have to know from the perfect man. That is the way.



Man (8): And who is the perfect man?



Prabhupāda: That you have to find out, if you have got that capacity.



Man (8): How do you find out?



Prabhupāda: How do you find out a lawyer?



Man (8): Well, that's what I'm asking, you see. I've got a...



Prabhupāda: You have to see that "This man is lawyer, and many men is going there to take law advice, and he is gaining case. He is working." In that way you have to know.



Man (8): Well, sir, you're one of the authorities in the same subject. But...



*Prabhupāda: No. Authority is in, not that way. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that authorities are accepted by disciplic succession. And just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is accepted. There are authorities like... In our India there are authorities like Śaṅkarācārya, authorities like Rāmānujācārya, authorities like Madhvācārya, authorities like Viṣṇu Svāmī, authorities like Lord Caitanya. They have all accepted that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. So you have to accept that. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You have to follow the footprint of higher authorities. So if you say that "I don't accept anyone authority," then your authority is sufficient. Whatever you like, can do.



Woman (9): We have to start somewhere or the other.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is going on.



Woman (9): The basis... If we don't start the basic, change our words, what other things do... But life, what it says, "Be good." It says in Bible, it says in Koran, everything, "Be good." If you take that word, that's enough, without any big book.



Woman (1): Is astrology of any importance to a way of life, I mean...



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a science. Yes. This is a science. It is a science. That science is acceptable by the human society. Medical science, legal science, engineering science. Similarly, astrology also, another science. But the astrology is simply useful so long you have got this body. But as soon as your body is finished, there is no more use of astrology.



Devotee: Should we chant?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can. What is that? Take it. Chant. Authority, it is accepted like that. Because other authorities whom we are accepting, they have accepted... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footprints of other authorities. Leadership. In every society they are accepting leadership. So in that way you have to accept authority. There is no other process.



Man (8): No. Change is good wherever it's necessary, but according to...



Prabhupāda: Authority, everywhere authority is there. You have to accept authority. Without authority there is no, I mean to say, advancement. That is impossible. Now you have to select your authority. That is a different thing. But you have to accept the authority. In every society there is leadership, there is authority. So people accept it, and that is the way. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That is stated, that "We have to follow the footprints of the authorities." Now the next question will be whether you will accept this man as authority or that man as authority. That is a different question. But if you want to advance, you have to... Just like even in the crossing, you ask the police authority, "Whether I shall go this way or that way?" Authority is to be accepted because we are not independent. So you may select a different kind of authority. That is your selection. But authority you accepted, even if he is wrong. Without that, you cannot make progress. Yes?



Man (10): I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a spiritual body. When I look at you, it seems that you're...



Prabhupāda: A spiritual body is like... This is body, but this is material body. Just like here there is, there are different kinds of bodies, as I explained, 8,400,000's different forms of bodies. Even in human form of body there are so many difference of bodies. Similarly, there is a body which is called spiritual body, of which you have no experience at the present moment, but there is a spiritual body.



Man (10): And a person can take on such body if he's been purified after...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is already there. Spiritual body is already there. Just like from Bhagavad*-gītā we understand that this body is dress. Just try to understand. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. The Bhagavad-gītā says that "As we give up old dress and accept another new dress, similarly, we give up one body and accept another body." Now, if this body is dress, so dress cannot stand without real body. Now, one dress is moving, coat-pant. That means that within that dress there is a man, not that automatically the coat-pant is moving. Similarly, this dress is standing so long the soul is there. As soon as the soul is gone, it is flat, no more moving. This is very easy to understand. It is dress, but dress is moving. Just like coat-pant moving, how long? The real man is there. If the man is not there, finished. The coat is coat; *pant is pant. That's all. It is so simply given in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. It is dress. So dress means there is real body. Otherwise how dress can be made? Because you have got this hand, therefore your coat has got a hand. Because you have got leg, therefore your dress, pant, has got a leg. So if it is dress, then it is to be understood that within the dress the spiritual body is there. It is common affair. First of all try to understand this. Yes.



*Man (11): Who is the original authority of Bhagavad*-gītā?



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa. Yes. You have read Bhagavad*-gītā? You read it thoroughly. Then you will understand.



*Man (11): No, but I think (I've seen?) Bhagavad*-gītā without...



Prabhupāda: You think. That is a wrong thing. Your thinking is not authority.



Man (12): The man's protesting.



Devotee: That's the man's opinion.



Prabhupāda: That's your opinion. That's all right. Opinion may differ. That's all right. That's your opinion. Opinion may be... You may have one opinion; another have another opinion. But whose opinion should be accepted? That is the question.



Man (13): (indistinct)



Woman (9): He said he can have his opinion.



Prabhupāda: All right. So any other questions? Let us chant. (kīrtana) (end)





690505LE.BOS

Lecture Excerpt

-

Boston, May 5, 1969



Prabhupāda: ...come to the light of the sun, immediately you get out of your room and get, immediately. Similarly, although God is far, far away, He is everywhere at the same time. That is God's nature. Simply we have to agree that "Now I shall realize..." [break] ...without any difficulty, very easily. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, yayātmā suprasīdati [SB 1.2.6]. And without spiritual realization you cannot have peace of mind. That is impossible. If you want to make... If you want to have peace of this world, of your mind, of your society, of your family, simply by amassing money, by material advance, it will never be possible. But if you improve a little in spiritual life, you become immediately happy.



*So your business is how to become happy, because by nature you are happy. Diseased condition, that happiness being checked. So this is our diseased condition, this material, conditional life, this body. So as one intelligent person puts himself under the treatment of a physician to get out of the disease, similarly, human life is meant for putting himself to the expert physician who can cure you from your material disease. That is your business. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. That is the injunction of all Vedic literature. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is teaching Arjuna. Arjuna is surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, śiṣyas te 'ham māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "My dear Kṛṣṇa, so long I was speaking with You just as friends. Now I surrender unto You as Your student, as Your disciple. You become my spiritual master and teach me properly." This is the process. Arjuna is exampling himself that he's accepting Kṛṣṇa as the spiritual master, teacher. And then Kṛṣṇa began to teach the Bhagavad*-gītā, and he changed his decision, and he was freed from all anxieties. This is spiritual life. So this spiritual realization is easier than any kind of material realization because we are not meant for material realization. We are meant for spiritual realization, the human form. So that we should take advantage of. That is the mission of human form of life. If we miss this, then we are committing suicide.

So now you can... If you have got any question, you can pose.

Girirāja: You talk about the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa. How does service of our fellow man come in?



*Prabhupāda: How these boys are coming here? How you have come here? It is not service? The best service, to take them out from the illusory life of material existence, the best service. This is the best service, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What do you mean by service? To give him relief from the suffering. That is service. This is the best relief. Yayātmā suprasīdati. The Bhāgavata says, "That is the best service, that is the best religion, that is the best philosophy, which teaches one how to love God." And as soon as he comes to that position, without any motive, without any impediment, yayātmā suprasīdati, immediately he becomes satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. Dhruva Mahārāja, a five*-years-old boy, was insulted by his stepmother, and he wanted the kingdom of his father. So his real mother advised him, "If God gives you, then you can get. Otherwise it is not possible." So he went to the forest. He inquired from his mother, "Where is God? I shall go there." The mother said, "My dear boy, I think He is in the Himalaya or in the forest, because many sages go there and find out God." The five-years-old boy immediately went to the forest and began to search out where is God. He was so... That means (in)tense desire: "I shall find out God, where is God." So, many people went there. Even Nārada Muni came there: "My dear boy, you are prince. You are so delicate. You are so nice. You cannot undertake this austerity, this severity of penance, finding out God. You better go home. Go to your father, mother." "Oh, sir, oh, I don't want your advice. Can you give me any way to find out God?" Then Nārada Muni initiated him, and he began to meditate, and ultimately he found out God. But when he saw God, he says, "My dear Lord, I do not want anything. Now I am fully satisfied." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "I came here for something which is just like broken pieces of glass, but I have got the diamond. So therefore I have nothing to ask for." Similarly, when one finds out his eternal relationship with God, loving spirit, then he becomes, say, "Oh, I do not..." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find. If you, I mean to say, go that standard of life, then you will feel, "I have no more want. Finished. All want finished." That is the best gift, that is the best service, when a man will feel that "I have no more want. I am fully satisfied." That is the best service. What is this service, nonsense service? Suppose I am hungry; *you give me some food. Does it mean that I shall not be hungry again? That food is already given also in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness move... That is not very difficult job. That is being given also. But we are giving some food which will make him satisfied for good. No more hunger. That is the best service. Just try to understand what sort of service is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness: no more hunger, no more demand. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "Oh, I am fully satisfied." Varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more demand. Finish." And if you go materially, satisfy your hunger, this, that, this, that, this, that, oh, it is simply illusion. It will never be finished. Just like you are advanced in material prosperity than other country. Does it mean that you are satisfied? Why there are hippies? Why there are so many frustrated youngsters? The richest country in the world. That, this richness of material world, the rascals, they are following that "If we become like America and some industrial, we shall become happy." That is rascaldom. Actual happiness is how you learn to love God. Then you get happy. That can be achieved without any material advancement. Anywhere you can have, without any expenditure, without any effort, without any education, without any knowledge. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you develop that love. This is the highest service to the human society. Just try to understand. Everyone will say, "Oh, I am now satisfied, fully satisfied. I don't want. No more stealing, no more pick*-pocketing, no more cheating, because I have no want. Why shall I cheat? Why shall I cheat?" Everything will be complete, fully satisfied. Yayātmā suprasīdati. Suprasīdati, this very word, Sanskrit word, is there. You have to make yourself fully satisfied. Then there will be no more want. You see?



Just like there is a story, "Alexander and the Cynic." Perhaps most of you know. There was a cynic. He was saintly person. He was sitting in a solitary place, almost naked body. Alexander the Great went there and asked him, "If I can do something for you? You are a great man." He said, "Oh, please don't obstruct sunshine. Please be aside, That's all. (laughter) You may do this. Don't obstruct the sunshine. I am quite pleased. You please set aside." Because he was fully satisfied, why this Alexander Great will, can do him?

yam labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

[Bg. 6.20-23]



*In Bhagavad*-gītā you will find. If you are situated in that transcendental position, then there is no more demand. And if you are situated in that position, the greatest difficult position, you don't care for it. Yasmin sthito guruṇāpi duḥkhena. Guru means heaviest type of difficulty. If you are put in, you don't care for it. This is life. Any condition, in any position, you are satisfied. You are not disturbed. That is required. That is called peace. That can be achieved by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by any other method. Any other questions?



Indian man (1): I have a question. Are you trying to say that human beings are created for sacrifice of God from the beginning to the end?



Prabhupāda: What is your idea?



Indian man (1): I want your idea.



Prabhupāda: First of all I want your idea. (laughter)



Indian man (1): I'm here to listen to you.



Prabhupāda: Then you listen. We are listening that you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and that is perfection.



Indian man (1): You are a giving a truth, a side, already handed out to me, that you have to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Prabhupāda: Because you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious... Because you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we have to teach you that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and you become happy.



Indian man (1): That's a given truth you are giving to me.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Indian man (1): Well, how do you know?



Prabhupāda: How do you know it is not truth?



Indian man (1): I don't know. I haven't found out.



Prabhupāda: Therefore you take it truth because we accept the truth from Kṛṣṇa.



Indian man (1): You have accepted it. Have you ever found out?



Prabhupāda: What is that "found out"?



Indian man (1): That being Kṛṣṇa conscious, you're the most happiest person?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Indian man (1): You are?



Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Don't you see practical happiness? I left my home, sannyāsī. I have got my wife. I have got my children... (end)





690519LE.COL

Lecture at Engagement

-

Columbus, May 19, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhusya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*My dear boys and girls. I thank you very much for your participating in this great saṅkīrtana movement. This saṅkīrtana movement is recommended for self*-realization in this age. This age is called, according to Vedic understanding, it is called Kali-yuga, the age of quarrel and disagreement, this age. So, besides that, there are many other symptoms of this age. They are described in the Vedic literatures, and they are coming exactly true. That is scripture.



*So the summary of this age is described that, in this age, the duration of life is very small. Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ. Everyone, we are decreasing our duration of life. You know, every one of you, your forefathers, your grandfather lived for hundreds, at least one hundred years. I have seen my grandmother, she died at the age of ninety-six years. My father died at the age of eighty-four years. So, I do not know how long I shall live*-I am now seventy-three-maybe a few years more; *but actually the duration of life gradually decreases. This is the symptom of this age, practically. And it is said that at the end of this millennium, that if somebody lives from twenty to thirty years, he will be considered as very old man. So, memory is decreasing also. People's sentiment for doing good to others, or to become merciful, that is also decreasing. Strength is decreasing, stature is decreasing. So this is one side. Another side, mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo manda-bhāgyā [SB 1.1.10]. One side they're decreasing so many nice things, another side they're very slow for self-realization. Practically, they have no interest. This human form of life is meant for self-realization. This life is not meant for working hard like cats and dogs and hogs for sense gratification. No. This life is not meant for that purpose. We have got developed consciousness, intelligence. We should ask, "What is this life?" The Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are ignorant, we are born ignorant, and we are doing so many things, activities, we are engaged. But we should see whether we are gaining or losing, whether we are conquering or being defeated. That should be our business to see.

*So, how to test it? The Bhāgavata says, so long you do not come to the platform of understanding yourself, whatever you are doing, it is simply defeat. Zero. Zero has no value. If you go on adding zero, zero, zero, zero, million times, the value is zero. But, if there is zero and put on the left side one, it becomes immediately ten. Therefore, according to... Not according to. Everyone, everyone reasonable man can understand that "What I am doing? What I am gaining?" In your country especially, I see there is so much frustration among youngsters. They are finding that this is zero. Somehow or other they are trying to realize that this sort of life is zero. Actually. Human life, simply increasing the demands of our senses, these activities are zero activities. Parābhava, defeating. Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma*-tattvam. When a human being, as long as a human being does not inquire "What I am? Why I am suffering? I do not wish to die. Why death is enforced upon me? I do not want to be diseased. Why disease is forced upon me? I do not want to become old. Why I become old? I do not wish to die. Why I..." These things are very important questions. That is called ātma-tattvam, self-realization. Human life is meant for this purpose, enquiring self-realization. And if we do not enquire, then we are no better than animals. Animals have no power to enquire about the self. They are simply busy with the problems of the body-eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Similarly, if human body is also engaged simply for eating, sleeping, mating and defending, that is not very good civilization. That is not at all human civilization.

*Human civilization is meant for understanding one's self, what I am, and act according to that. So Bhāgavata says, if we do not come to that point of understanding my self, then whatever I am doing or acting, this is simply defeat, or simply waste of time. At the same time, there is warning that we should not waste even a single moment of our life. Please try to understand these Vedic instructions, how nice they are. There is a great politician of the name Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. He was prime minister of Emperor Candragupta, a contemporary to the reign of Alexander the Great, in Greece. So, he was Prime Minister of that Emperor Candragupta, and he has many moral instructions and social instructions. In one of his verses, he says that āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ. Āyuṣaḥ, "of your duration of life." Suppose you are twenty years old. Today is 19th May, and there was 4 p.m. Now, this time, 4 p.m., 19th May, 1969, gone. You can never get it back even if you are prepared to pay millions of dollars. Just try to understand. Similarly, even a moment of your life is wasted for nothing, simply in the matter of sense gratification-eating, sleeping, mating and defending-then you do not know the value of your life. You cannot get back even a moment of your life by paying millions of dollars. Just try to understand how much valuable is your life.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to let people know how much valuable life is his, and utilize it in that way. Our movement is sarve sukhino bhavantu: everyone become, be happy. Not only human society, even animal society. We want to see everyone happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is practical; it is not dream. You can become happy. Don't be disappointed, don't be confused. Your life has value. You, in this life, you can realize your eternal life, eternal blissful life of knowledge. It is possible; *it is not impossible. So we are simply transmitting this message to the world, that "Your life is very valuable. Don't waste it just like cats and dogs. Try to utilize it fully." That is the statement in the Bhagavad*-gītā. We have published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Try to read it. In that Bhagavad-gītā in the Fourth Chapter it is said, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: if simply tries to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is His business, what is His life, where does He live, what does He do...., janma karma. Janma means appearance and disappearance; karma means activities; *divyam-transcendental. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. One who knows the appearance and activities of Kṛṣṇa in fact, in truth*-not by sentiment but by scientific study-then the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you'll no more have to come back to this miserable condition of material existence. This is fact. Even in your life, in this life, you'll understand, you'll be happy.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is no religious movement or any sectarian movement. This movement is to see everyone, every human being, not only human being, even the animals, everyone be happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. And the process is very simple. Very simple. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That you have already seen. This chanting is not at all difficult. Anyone, even a child was sitting here, he was just trying to clap and understand. It is immediately appealing, because this vibration is from the platform of the soul. Try to understand that we have got different platforms of our life. In the beginning we understand that this body, "I am this body." Therefore, so long the bodily concept of life is there, we are interested in sense gratification, because body means the senses. And when we fail to achieve any gratification by indulging in the senses, then we become philosophers or thoughtful. That is the mental platform. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ [Bg. 3.42]. Because these senses are centered round by, of the mind. Mind is practically the controller of the senses. So when you fail to achieve real, I mean to say, pleasure from the senses, we go to the mental platform: poetry, philosophy, similar, songs. But you have to transcend even the mental platform. That is intellectual platform. Above that intellectual platform, your soul is there. So you have to immediately come to the platform of soul, and you'll be happy. That is the program of Kṛṣṇa consciousness,

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



These are very scientific facts. You have to simply... You are all students; therefore I place before you, I appeal to you, try to understand the problems of life: what is your body, what is your mind, what is your intelligence, what are you..., how we are a soul, the spirit soul. So when you come to this platform of the spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am Brahman," don't be mislead that you are this body, you are this mind, or you are the intelligence. You are spirit soul, Brahman.



*So Bhagavad*-gītā informs, when one come to the platform of Brahman understanding, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, brahma-bhūtaḥ... This is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ means a realization of one's self as Brahman. At the present moment our realization is that "I am this body," and because this body is produced in a certain country or a certain place, a certain society, therefore I am identifying my body as American or as this or that. These are all designations. When we actually come to the spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ platform, in that platform only, you can become joyful, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you come to that platform of self-realization, then you will be joyful, immediately. And you are seeking after that joyfulness, that pleasure, because by nature you are joyful. By nature... It is your nature. Just like a diseased man, that diseased condition is not his nature. Healthy condition is his nature; *therefore he is trying to be healthy. Every diseased man is trying how to get healthy, how to get health. Similarly, this position, this present consciousness of material existence is full of threefold miseries. It takes very long time to explain each and every word, but I tell you in summary, this life is subjected to three kinds of miseries, always*-either bodily, mental, or some miseries inflicted by other living entities, or by nature. So many things. At least one or two. We must be under the subjugation of some kind of misery. But if you become situated in your spiritual platform of life, brahma-bhūtaḥ, you immediately become joyful, prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. And how one becomes prasannātmā? What are the symptoms? The symptoms are also stated, na śocati na kāṅkṣati: he has no more any demand for satisfying the senses, neither he has any lamentation for any loss. This is prasannātmā, joyfulness. That joyfulness is your inherent quality as Brahman, as soul. Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. You have heard of the Vedānta-sūtra. In that Vedānta-sūtra you'll find this sūtra, these codes are there. Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt brahma. The Vedānta-sūtra begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life, this human form of life, is now meant for inquiring about Brahman. What is that Brahman, that is immediately answered: janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Brahman is the supreme source from where everything emanates, or everything is born. So in the Vedānta-sūtra, and that is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So you are student, you should take advantage of these great literatures. Don't remain in darkness. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. The Vedas informs, "you don't remain in darkness, but come to the light, that is your business." Asato mā sad-gamaḥ, don't remain in the non-permanent situation. This body is non-permanent situation. You are thinking, oh, you have got this nice body, American body, "We have got so much opulences. What we have to learn about Vedānta? We are very much happy." But, try to understand that how long you shall remain American? It is all right, you have got this nice body, beautiful body, you have got opulences, your country is very nice. But as soon as you change your body, that change of body is going on. Try to understand. You were a child when you were born out of the womb of your mother, or in the womb of the mother your body was so small. Just like a pea it has developed, and when it's fully developed you come out. You have come out, you are developing. Developing means changing. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



As you are changing your body even in this present life, you remember that you were a child, you were a boy... I remember I was a child... I was a baby. I still remember in my babyhood I was lying down on my elder sister's lap. She was knitting. I can still remember. So, we can remember our childhood, our boyhood, our youth, but I am the same, the body is changing. It is a fact. Similarly, when these bodies ultimately lapse or change, I am accepting another body. That is a fact. This is called transmigration of the soul. As we are changing our dress, similarly we are changing our body. And there are 8,400,000 of different kinds of bodies.



So our, at present moment, our business is simply to change bodies, change body. So we do not know what kind of body I am going to take next. There is a vast science about it, so one should know, one should prepare. Just like you are preparing yourself by education to be well situated in your future life, in this life; *similarly, you should prepare yourself to get the best body in you next life. What is that next body? That is answered in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*"The highest perfection of life is to come back to Me, and you get this spiritual body, eternal body, blissful life, full of pleasure." Dance with Kṛṣṇa, mām upetya duḥkha, without any miserable condition. That is the highest... Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. That is the highest perfection of life. You are trying to go to the moon planet, you are trying to go to the sun planet or you can go any other planet. There are millions of planets. And the highest planet is called Brahmaloka. And modern scientists say that to reach to the highest planet in this universe it will take forty thousands of years. So even if you go there, Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Anywhere you go, in any planet you go, these four conditions of material existence-birth, death, old age and disease*-they are existing everywhere. Yaṁ prāpya na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: but if one goes to that planet, Kṛṣṇa planet, then he hasn't got to come back again. He gets eternal life, blissful life, simply joyful life.



*So our proposal is that in this life you have got this opportunity, the informations are there, the scientific methods are there*-take advantage. Fully utilize your, this valuable life by changing simply your ordinary consciousness to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the greatest boon offered to the human society by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you take advantage of it, then sarve sukhino bhavantu-then you'll become happy. It is not a mental concoction; *it is very authorized. It is accepted by great stalwart scholars and ācāryas like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, those who practically guided the whole destiny of Indian civilization*-even Lord Buddha, he was Indian-but all of them accepted these authorized scriptural... Don't try to manufacture. There are so many things in store, in Vedic knowledge, and they're all summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā. Try to understand. It is not very expensive or very difficult, but you have to understand it with full brain, then your life will be successful.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to preach the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, not to interpret it any nonsensical way and mislead the people. We don't try to mislead the people. We give without any changes and without any cost, any loss on your part. But, give a try, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, simple thing, just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, these sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. You practice it, you chant anywhere you like, either in your home or anywhere. There is no restriction, there is no hard and fast rules and regulation for chanting, and anyone can chant. You see all our..., you also chanted just a few minutes ago. You chanted. So it is not difficult. Give it a try. That is our request. We request you, most humbly, that you take these sixteen words, you chant, and your heart will be cleansed of all dirty things. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Every dirty things. Our, we do not know how long we are changing births-900,000 species of births in the water, and two million species of life as plants and leaves and trees, and so many lives as reptiles, and cats and dogs and so many... Now we have come to this, by evolutionary process, this civilized form of life, human form of life, very beautiful form of life. Why you should waste this life, again go to that cycle of changing birth after birth, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]? The intelligent man should understand, try to understand, how much miserable it is to undergo birth and death and disease and old age. Don't be carried away by whims. You are intelligent boys and girls, born in rich family and rich nation. Just try to utilize, then it will be finishing touch to your country. Your country is advanced in so many ways. You have no poverty. You are advanced in so many ways. Take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Your country will be perfect, actual leader of the whole world. I have come to your country with this purpose, that if American boys and girls should accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it will be good for them and good for the world. So try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is very easy*-it is not difficult-but it is sublime. It is the most sublime movement. It can solve all the problems of the world. That we are sure.

So I do not wish to take much of your time. The sum and substance of our movement I have explained to you, and these boys are also there if you want to inquire. We are prepared to answer your inquiries. But we request you, please take seriously about this movement and you'll be happy, sarve sukhino bhavantu.

Thank you very much. (end)



690511AD.COL

Address to Indian Association

-

Columbus, May 11, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*All glories to the saṅkīrtana movement. Paraṁ vijayate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago in Navadvīpa, at the age of sixteen years only, a boy of sixteen years, He introduced this movement, saṅkīrtana movement. Not that He manufactured some religious system. Just like nowadays there are..., so many religious system have been manufactured. Actually, religion cannot be manufactured. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Religion means the codes of God, the laws of God." That's all. Just like you cannot live without obeying the state laws, similarly, you cannot live without obeying the laws of God. And in the Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati: [Bg. 4.7] "Whenever there is discrepancies in the process of religious, prosecution of religious activities," yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, abhyutthānam adharmasya, "and there is predominance of irreligious activities," tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "at that time," Kṛṣṇa, the Lord, says that "I appear." That is the way. The same principle. Just like as soon as there is disobedience of state laws, there is advent of some particular state officer or the governor or the state man to take step and to set things right. That is the way.



So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is worshiped by the Gosvāmīns, and there is a verse written by Rūpa Gosvāmī, one of His principal disciples. There were six Gosvāmīns: Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, and Śrī Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. All of them were Gosvāmīns. Gosvāmīns means... Go means senses. There are three meanings of go. Go means land; go means cow; go means senses. So gosvāmī... They were gosvāmī means they were master of the senses. Svāmī or gosvāmī, the same category. Gosvāmī is more explained. Svāmī means master. So when one becomes master of the senses, gosvāmī, he can make progress in the spiritual life. That is the meaning of svāmī. Svāmī does not mean that he is servant of the senses. Svāmī means master of the senses, gosvāmī. So they were all gosvāmīs, and one of the gosvāmīs, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was the head. So he compiled one nice verse in respect of honoring Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says,

*anarpita*-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau

*samarpayitum unnatojvala*-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam

*hariḥ puraṭa*-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ

*sadā hṛdaya*-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandana



*He is blessing the people in general that "This incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa..." Anarpita*-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau. Kalau means this age, this age of Kali, which is very much contaminated, or the age of quarrel and disagreement. This is called Kali, age of Kali. So Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "In this age of Kali, where everything is disagreement and quarrel, you have descended to offer the highest, topmost love of God." Samarpayitum unnatojvala-rasām. "And not only topmost, but very brilliant rasa, transcendental mellow, humor." Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnatojvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam, hariḥ puraṭa-sundara-dyuti: "Your complexion is just like golden, luster of gold. So You are so kind. So I bless everyone..." Gosvāmīs, they can bless because they are master of the senses. "...that this form of the Lord, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, may always remain dancing in your heart." Another place, when Rūpa Gosvāmī first met Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Prayāg, Lord Caitanya was dancing on the street, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." At that time also, he offered one prayer, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "Oh, You are the most munificent of all incarnation because You are distributing love of Godhead." Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te, kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ: "You are Kṛṣṇa Himself, because without being Kṛṣṇa, You cannot distribute Kṛṣṇa-prema. Love of God or love of Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing, but You are distributing freely to everyone."



So this saṅkīrtana movement was inaugurated in Bengal in India and in Navadvīpa. So in this sense the Bengalis are very fortunate that in their country this movement was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya, and He predicted that... Those who are Bengalis here present, they will understand.

pṛthivīte āche yata nagaradi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



He predicted that "As many villages and towns there are all over the world, everywhere this saṅkīrtana movement will be preached." That is His future prediction. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya, this movement is already introduced in the Western countries, beginning from New York. Our first movement, the saṅkīrtana movement, was introduced in New York. I came in New York first, and I began to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in the Tompkinson Park. Is that Tompkinson Park or Square?



Devotee: Tompkins Square.



*Prabhupāda: Tompkins Square. So I was chanting there for three hours with a little small mṛdaṅga, and these boys, American boys, they assembled, and gradually they joined. And it is increasing. First of all it was started in New York in a storefront, 26 Second Avenue. Then we started our branch in San Francisco, in Los Angeles, in Santa Fe, in Buffalo, then here. We have got now twenty branches, including one in London and one in Hamburg. And in London, the boys-they are all American boys, American boys and girls*-they are preaching. They are not sannyāsī, neither they are Vedāntist, neither they are Hindus, neither they are Indian. But they have taken this movement very seriously. Here one lady from London, she has come. She was very much praising about their movement. And in London Times there was an article. They said that "Kṛṣṇa Chanting Startles London." So we have got many followers now. All my disciples till now, at least in this country, they are all Americans and Europeans. They are chanting, dancing. They are issuing paper, Back to Godhead. Now we have published so many books, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Teachings of Lord Caitanya.



So this movement is not like that is a sentimental movement. Don't think that these boys are dancing in some religious sentiment or fanaticism. No. We have background. We have background, highest philosophical and theosophical. Whatever you like. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, while He was preaching, He went to Benares. So Benares is the seat of Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. The followers of Śaṅkarācārya, they are mostly seen in Benares, Vārāṇasī. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was there, He was chanting and dancing. So some of the people, they became very much appreciative of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's dancing and chanting, and there was a big sannyāsī, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, leader of many thousands of Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. So somebody went to him and said, "Oh, from Bengal one young sannyāsī has come. Oh, He is so nicely chanting and dancing." So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he was a great Vedāntist. He did not like the idea. He said, "Oh, He is a pseudo sannyāsī. He is chanting and dancing. This is not the business of a sannyāsī. This is the... Sannyāsī should always engage himself in the study of philosophy and Vedānta, and He is simply chanting and dancing?" So he remarked that "He's a pseudo sannyāsī. He is not actually sannyāsa." Then one of the devotees, he did not like the idea, remark of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He came back and informed Lord Caitanya that "These people are blackmailing You. I cannot tolerate this. So if something can be done to stop this blackmailing?" So that's a long history. So one devotee, he arranged the meeting of all the sannyāsīns, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also invited, and there was Vedānta philosophical discussion between Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī and Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This description and philosophical discussions are given in our *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*, and it is very nice that Prakāśānanda himself with his, all his disciples, they became Vaiṣṇavas. The idea is... Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu had a great discussion with Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, the greatest logician of that time. He was also Māyāvādī, impersonalist.

*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is not sentimental. People think that this is a sentimental movement. No. We have got very good background. If one wants to understand this saṅkīrtana movement through philosophy and learning and logic, oh, there is ample opportunity. It is not sentimental. It is based on science and based on authority of Vedas. But it is simplified. That is the... That is the beauty of this movement. Either you are great scholars or philosopher, or either you are a child just like this child, everyone can take part, without any difficulty. Any system of self*-realization, either jñāna process or yoga process or any process, they are also recognized, but they are not possible to be practiced in this age. That is not possible. That is the verdict of the Vedas.

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*In the Satya*-yuga it was possible to execute the meditation process. Just like Vālmīki Muni. He meditated for sixty thousands of years to get perfection. So where is your age? Besides that, that process, meditation process, are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have to select a secluded place, you have to execute it alone, you have to sit down in such a posture, you have to completely lead a life of celibacy, and so many rules and regulations. So aṣṭāṅga-yoga, meditation, that is not possible. But if you are satisfied by doing some imitation, that is different thing. But if you want right perfection, then you have to execute all the different stages of yoga practice, aṣṭāṅga-yoga. There are eight divisions: dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, prāṇāyāma... So if it is not possible, then it is waste of time. What is the ultimate goal of yoga process or meditation? To contact the Supreme, the Supersoul, the Supreme Lord. That is the aim and object of yoga process. Similarly, philosophical research, jñāna process, that is also, the aim is to understand Supreme Brahman, realize Brahman. So they are recognized process undoubtedly, but according to authoritative description, those processes are not practical in this age. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Therefore one has to take to this process of hari-kīrtana. Anyone can take, without any prequalification. You haven't got to study philosophy or Vedānta. This Vedānta philosophy was very much discussed between Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī... Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked first of all Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "I understand that You are were a very good scholar in Your previous life." Caitanya Mahāprabhu actually was a very great scholar. His name was Nimāi Paṇḍita. And at the age of sixteen years old He defeated one great scholar from Kashmir, Keśava Kāśmīrī. So He was a great scholar. So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked Him that "I understand that You are a great scholar, Sanskrit scholar, and especially in logic You are a very good scholar. And You are now sannyāsī. You were born in a brāhmaṇa family. How is that You are chanting and dancing without reading Vedānta?" This was the first question made by Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. And He replied, "Yes. The thing is that when I was initiated by My spiritual master, he said that 'You are fool number one [Cc. Adi 7.71]. You don't discuss Vedānta. Simply You will spoil Your time. Please take to this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and You will be successful.' " That was His reply.



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a fool, but Vedānta is not for fool. It requires sufficient education, sufficient status. Then one can understand Vedānta. In each and each code, each word, there are volumes of meaning, and there are many commentation, commentary by Śaṅkarācārya, commentary by Rāmānujācārya, commentary by..., big, big volumes in Sanskrit language. So how one will understand Vedānta? It is not possible. It may be possible for one person or two persons to understand what is Vedānta, but for the mass of people it is not possible; *neither it is possible to practice yoga. Therefore this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's method, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa... He says, the first installment of gain will be ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam: [Cc. Antya 20.12] All the dirty things from your heart will be cleansed simply by chanting. You chant. There is no expenditure; there is no loss. But as we are chanting, if you kindly chant... You just do it for one week, and you see how much you progress in spiritual knowledge. We are getting many students. Simply by chanting, they are understanding the whole philosophy. They are giving up their bad habits, they are becoming purified, so many things. They are practical. This Society, movement, is started practically not more than two years, 1966, and we have got so many branches. The American boys and girls, they are taking it very seriously and do it very nicely. They are following all rules and regulation, and they are happy. Ask any one of them.

*So this is practical, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the dirty things from the heart simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Yes. And the next thing is that bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. As soon as your heart is cleansed of all dirty things, then all the problems of material existence immediately solved. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. It has been compared with dāvāgni. Dāvāgni means the blazing fire in the forest. In this material existence, nobody wants unhappiness, but it comes, forced, by force. That is the law of material nature. Nobody wants that there may be fire, but especially in this country, wherever in a city we go, the fire brigade is always active. You see? Nobody wants fire, but the fire brigade is active. Yes. There is fire. Similarly, nobody wants so many things. Nobody wants death; there is death. Nobody wants disease; there is disease. Nobody wants old age; *oh, there is old age*-against my, against my desire. We should have to think that what is the status of this material existence. This human form of life is meant for understanding. The human form of life is not meant for wasting the valuable life like cats and dogs in the matter of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That is not advancement of civilization. The Bhāgavata says that "This body is not meant for working very hard simply for sense gratification. No." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "To work very hard and satisfy oneself by sense gratification, that is the business of the hogs or dogs, not for human being." The human being, tapa, they should learn tapasya. And especially in India so many great sages, so many great kings, and so many brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, they passed their life in great tapasya, not to go further. Just see Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha was a prince. He gave up everything, and he engaged himself in tapasya. This is life. King Bhārata Mahārāja, under whose name India is called Bhāratavarṣa, when he was twenty-four years old he gave up his kingdom, he gave up his young wife, young children, and went for tapasya. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was only twenty-four years He gave up His young wife, mother, everything. There are various, many, many examples. India is land of tapasya, but we are forgetting that. We are forgetting. Now we are making it the land of technology. It is surprising that India has gone so down, forgetting its tapasya, the land of tapasya, the land of dharma. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1]. Dharma-kṣetre.

*So it is not only in India. Everywhere in this age, everything is degraded, degraded in this sense, prāyeṇa kalau asmin alpāyeṣu yuge janāḥ. The duration of life is diminished. They are not very much active to understand what is self*-realization. And if they are, some of them are very much active, oh, he is misled by so many misleading, so-called leaders. So the age is very corrupting. Therefore this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best method and the simplest method. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam. Kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. There is no other alternative. In the Agni Purāṇa this verse appears, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam. Three times: "Simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa," kevalam, "only." You cannot offer any other alternative. No. Only. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam. Kalau: "In this age," nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā, "there is no other alternative for self-realization except this." So we have to accept. There is another version in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Parīkṣit Mahārāja was instructed by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He described the faults of this age. There is... In the Twelfth Canto, Third Chapter, you will find. Everything is now being corroborated, what is described five thousand years ago. So in that conclusive portion, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann hy asti eko mahān guṇaḥ: "My dear King, this age, Kali, is full of faulty things, but there is one good opportunity." What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet: [SB 12.3.51] "Simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one becomes liberated and he goes back to Godhead, back to home." So this is practical, this is authorized, and you can yourself test also how you become advanced simply by chanting.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing... It is not a new thing that we have introduced or manufactured. No. It is authorized on the Vedic principle, authorized by ācāryas like Caitanya Mahāprabhu and all other ācāryas. So join us. You will be happy. Your human life will be sublime. And the method is very simple. There is no loss. We are not charging anything, that "You give me fee. I shall give you some secret mantra, and within six months you shall become God." No. It is open for everyone. Even child, even woman, girls, boys, old*-everyone can take it and chant it and see the result. That is our request. So this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is universal movement. I would request you to join. We have got branches here. We are chanting daily twice. Especially we are holding meetings on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. And you try to understand. We have got... Not that we are sentimentalists. We have got books, philosophy, everything. So please join and take advantage of it. That is our request.

Thank you very much. [break] Yes?

Indian man: Would you elaborate what you are doing as New Vrindaban? We heard... What is it you are establishing there?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not only establishing New Vrindaban, but there is New Navadvīpa, New Jagannātha Purī. Yes. We have already started New Jagannātha Purī in San Francisco. The Ratha*-yātrā festival is going on. And this year there will be a great ceremony of Ratha-yātrā in London. There will be three cars: Jagannātha, Subhadrā and Balarāma. And it will be taken to the riverside, Thames. So this American land, they have imported "New England," "New York"; *why not New Vrindaban? So you should all join. Those who are Indians, they should join this movement especially to establish this New Vrindaban. Because Lord Caitanya recommended, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa*-tanayam. The vrajeśa-tanaya, Kṛṣṇa, the son of Nanda Mahārāja in the Vṛndāvana dhāma, or Vrajabhūmi, He is the supreme worshipable Deity. Tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. And His place, Vṛndāvana, is also worshipable. So these Western boys and girls, they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So they should have a place like Vṛndāvana. So here is present our Swami Kīrtanānanda. He went to Vṛndāvana with me two years ago, and he has taken the idea, what is Vṛndāvana. So I have instructed him that "You should construct at least seven temples." In Vṛndāvana there are five thousand temples, not one, two. Five thousand temples of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. But the most important temples are seven, established by the Gosvāmīs. So our program is to live there, depending on agriculture and cow, cow protection and agriculture. That should be the economic solution. And peacefully be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vṛndāvana scheme. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhidaḥ. This human form of life is not meant for increasing artificial needs. We should be satisfied just to maintain the body and soul together, and balance time we should save for enhancing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or spiritual consciousness, so that after this body we haven't got to make another material body, but we go back to home, back to Godhead. That should be the motto of human life.



*Another thing I may inform you in this connection, that when I first came to New York, one big man in India, mean rich man, Sir Padampat Singhania of Kanpur, I had correspondence that "Singhaniajī, if you give me some money, I can construct a temple here of Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa." So he was ready. He said that "Swamijī, whatever amount you want, I can give, provided the government gives sanction." So I had many correspondence with the government, but they did not give me sanction. But here the embassy, they have given me sanction that "You can raise funds from the residents in America and construct temple." So you are so many Indians. If you help me, I can construct temples everywhere. We have got many assistants. Of course, the American rich men, they are not coming. The boys and girls who have joined me, they are very not rich but very sincere. They are working and maintaining these twenty centers. We have got good expenditure. You know. It is America. Sometimes we have to spend two thousand dollars in every center. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us opportunity. Although there is no temple, but we are, I mean to say, our own temple, but temples we have got everywhere. We have got our Deity, Jagannātha, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. They are being worshiped nicely, and we are offering prasādam. Every Sunday we are distributing prasādam. So the system is going on. Especially if you go to Los Angeles, we have got the biggest temple there. At least, daily, fifty, sixty persons are taking prasādam. On Sunday there are guests, more than one hundred. They are taking part. It is going on nicely. Similarly, we'll have in every place. So that foretellng, prediction of Lord Caitanya, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, that time has come. Let us cooperate and distribute this nice thing, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. People will be happy. [break]

Indian man: Is there any place in the movement for the drug addicts, a new class which has come...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Our students are forbidden not to accept any kind of intoxication. They do not drink even tea or coffee, or they do not smoke, what to speak of other things. That is our first condition to become disciple: no illicit sex life, no intoxication, no meat*-eating, no gambling. These four things must be there. Otherwise we don't accept anyone as disciple.



Indian man: Because for an average American, a man in the street who doesn't know what Hinduism means, he thinks...



Prabhupāda: This is Hinduism.



Indian man: ...probably this is a meeting of hippies going on here.



*Prabhupāda: Hippies who are coming in our touch, they are giving up all these things even. Because they are not guided-misguided*-they are seeking after something better, but there is no leader. But this movement will give them relief, to everyone. We are... Anyone who comes to us for initiation, our first condition is that there should be no illicit sex life, no boyfriend-girlfriend. No. Just get yourself married. Although I am sannyāsī, I have no connection with this marriage, but I do it for the sake of my disciples, just to settle them nicely. So all the boys or girls, they are being married. In Boston, while I was coming, there was three couples married. So they are living peacefully. There is no intoxication. They do not smoke even, do not take even tea or coffee. And they are taking nice prasādam every day. They are happy, they are healthy, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.



Indian man: Could I ask a question?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Indian man: Is there a basic conflict between a spiritual life and material living? How does the philosophy...?



Prabhupāda: No. Material life means eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is material life. And spiritual life means something more than this. Just like animal life or human life. Animal life, the common formula is eating, sleeping, mating and defending. A dog also eats; *a man also eats. A man also sleeps, and a dog also sleeps. The man also have sex life, and the dog also have sex life. The dog also defends in his own way, and man also defends in his own way, maybe atomic bomb. That is a different thing. But the defense, defense measure... These four principles are common between human being and animal. So advancement of these four principles is not human civilization. That is animal civilization. That is not human civilization. And human civilization means that athāto brahma jijñāsā, the Vedānta*-sūtra says. The Vedānta-sūtra, first aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now it is the time for inquiry about the Brahman." That is human life. Without this inquiry, that is animal life. So that is material life and... So long one is not spiritually inquisitive, jijñāsu śreya uttamam, he is animal because he has got only these four principles: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. He must be inquisitive, "What I am? Why I am put into these miseries of life-birth, death, old, disease? Is there any remedy?" These things should be questioned. Then it is human life. Then it is spiritual life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the beginning of Vedānta. Brahma-jijñāsā: One should be inquisitive to understand what is Brahman. That is spiritual life.



*So our Vedic system was so nicely designed that automatically one will be elevated to the understanding of Brahman. This caste system is condemned because they have been vitiated by designing person. Actually, caste system, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ... [Bg. 4.13]. According to division of qualities, there are caste system everywhere. Goodness, passion, and ignorance-these three qualities are working in the material nature. The persons who are in goodness, they are called brāhmaṇas. Not that birth. Kṛṣṇa does not say, "By birth." Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. There is no question of birth. Simply by quality. Quality, the division is everywhere: intelligent class of men, administrative class of men, productive class of men, and laborer class of men. This is brāhmaṇa, śūdra... That's all. So everything should be taken scientifically. Human... That is human civilization, human life; *otherwise animal life. Spiritual life means human life, and material life means animal life. That's all. So we have to make adjustment, as it is recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yuktāhāra-vihārasya. It does not mean because I am going to be spiritual man, I shall give up eating. No, not that. But my eating should be adjusted. These things are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, what class of foodstuff is first class, in goodness, and what class of foodstuff in the passion, third class, in ignorance. So we have to raise ourself in the goodness platform of human civilization, then revive our transcendental consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things are, everything is there in the śāstras. Unfortunately, we do not consult. [break]

*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



*Unless one is liberated from the clutches of these three modes of material nature, he cannot understand what is God. Prasanna*-manaso. He must be Brahman-realized soul. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. These things are there. So you should take advantage of these śāstras and preach. That is the responsibility to the Indian. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said,



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*"Anyone who has taken his birth in India as human being, he should learn all the śāstras, make his life successful, and distribute this." That is the responsibility of India. This is the injunction of Lord Caitanya. Bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. So Bhāratabhūmi is not... To take birth in India is not ordinary thing. You must know. But you should utilize the opportunity. That utilization you should read, study, understand volumes of Vedic literature, and you should distribute the knowledge to the rest of the world. Rest of the world, they know God is great, but they do not know how great is God. That you will find in the Vedic literature. And that is our duty. That is kīrtana, hari-kīrtana. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam, to glorify. So I shall specially request our Indian nationals to join this movement and distribute the knowledge. I am doing it now alone. And if you join, it will be great help to this movement. Try to understand.



Indian man: We understand from the newspaper that there is a temple which has been started on East 20th Street. Can somebody tell us at what stage it is?



Prabhupāda: In New York?



Indian man: Here in Columbus. We read in newspaper yesterday.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is our temple. Our temple, yes. So you come and see. That is just started for the last few weeks only. Yes. But we have got very nice temples in Los Angeles, in New York, in San Francisco.



Indian man: We saw the one in Montreal.



Prabhupāda: In Montreal also. You saw me there?



Indian man: Yeah, we saw last year.



Prabhupāda: Last year, no. I think in June I was there. Montreal also we have got. In Vancouver we have got. So as these boys are growing, so we are starting. Bala bari duḥkha kande (?). When the children are grown up, the father's labor diminishes. So all right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Please join with us. (end)





690512LE.COL

Lecture with Allen Ginsberg

at Ohio State University

-

Columbus, May 12, 1969



*Allen Ginsberg: The amazing thing was that everybody was able to shake their own ass and get up and dance after..., a long time, and not knowing what to do. When ancient rhythms were floating through, everybody thought and certainly everybody desired to dance and sing rather than be frozen. But such is the nature of our condition, in this, which is called the Kali*-yuga, according to Hindu fairy tale, Hindu mythology, Hindu religion, Hindu belief, Hindu metaphysics, Hindu cosmography, probably corresponding to what in our Western tradition we know as the gnostic tradition, through Pallet Harichosis(?), Yaka Burma(?), and William Blake. This is an Orient version of what may be the same tradition, suppressed in the West when the CIA took over religion in 313 A.D., (laughter and applause), when Constantine, Caesar, made a deal with the church to suppress all alien thoughts and heresies and to formulate a square Western version of heaven and hell. The Kali-yuga concept is one that you can, in a sense, interpret ecologically. If you've been following the scientifical pronouncements of doom possibility coming over television, radio, and slick magazines, as well as from the underground press, you will notice that there's increasing attention to the fact that our own fecal material, the waste products of our robots, have now so polluted Lake Erie that it's a great lake of green goo slime, biologically dead; that our atmosphere, the planetary atmosphere, is increasingly polluted with carbon wastes; and that we are so sunk in our attachment to automobile exhaust fumes, to sulphur wastes from great steel factories producing metals that can be sent flying to explode on the other side of the planet with the collaboration of the science faculties in such universities as this, (applause) so that we find ourselves increasingly sunk into what is called a materialistic habit, like a junky stuck on his junk.



*People are hooked on matter and on their own identity in matter, taking their own identity from their faces, nose, bodies, and immediate physical city*-complex around them, and not realizing another, sweeter, deeper but wilder or "transcendental" identity than the identity of the one-dimensional man that Marcuse has talked out. So what we are proposing here is a modern-minded view, or some indications of a modern Western, i.e., gnostic, Marcuse view of Kali-yuga, as applying to our own situation, rather than being an oriental fairy tale. As it stands, I read in the paper today, the prognosis for our... According to U Thant in today's paper, according to the head of the U.N., mankind has only ten years to reverse the political, social, moral, emotional, bhakti course of the planet, and alter our technology, alter our consciousness radically enough to preserve human existence on the planet. (applause) So this is not only the official U.N. pronouncement; it's also the pronouncement of most of the ecologists, biologists, and ecosystemic students of the planet that are presently considering the ecological disruption that we have caused through our greed and destructiveness.

*The oriental tale, or analysis, has it, however, that we have a good deal more time. The Kali*-yuga, or age of heavy metal entanglement, iron age, lasts 432,000 years, and we're only five thousand years into it. So there is 428..., 427,000 years to go. In a conversation with Swami Bhaktivedanta today, I was inquiring more about the details of the mythology, which are found in a book called the Bhāgavata Purāṇa. He explained that according to Hindu analysis we are five thousand years into the descent from a lighter age, the age of brass, the disappearance of Lord Kṛṣṇa, an aspect of the Hindu Deity Viṣṇu, preserver, or perhaps the supreme form of the preserver aspect of the universe, of ourselves, or of Viṣṇu. The disappearance of Kṛṣṇa, mythologically or historically, is five thousand years ago. We're five thousand years into the age of iron, and we have ten thousand years in which to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, which is to say, repeating the name of the aspect of the preservation, hope, that particular vibration of dancing joy transcending our cosmopolitical words. We have ten thousand for that play before there is a total descent into one-foot-tall monsters who eat each other up for meat because all the vegetables have disappeared, because DDT has completely geared out any biological life form except mammals who go around eating each other at that point.

*For... I've known Swami Bhaktivedanta for about three years, since he settled in the Lower East Side in New York, which was my territory and my neighborhood... (applause) It seemed to me like a stroke of great intelligence for him to come, not as an uptown swami (laughter) but a real down-home street swami, and make it on the street in the Lower East Side, as also opening a branch on Frederick Street in San Francisco, right in the center of Haight-Ashbury neighborhood, so that people who were tripping in Haight-Ashbury several years ago, coming down, wanting some, quote, "permanent-eternal reassurance," formula, ritual, magic, hope, feel, one truth, if you wish, zeroed in on the Frederick Street rugged, performed, incensed, ashram, where chanting would be heard at dawn as they were coming down off a trip all night. A great many people who were hung on acid or other varieties of chemical psychedelics found it much more stable to practice a prolonged ritual or sādhana following the instructions of Swami Bhaktivedanta, which are old, classical, Indian-style instructions for both ritual, daily living, diet, sexuality, thought consciousness, apparel, hand gestures*-in other words, a very complicated ritualized yoga, a very ancient one also. I thought Swami Bhaktivedanta made a great move in coming to the Lower East Side and to Haight-Ashbury. And then, naturally, because people dig chanting, centers formed in other parts of the United States, so that there are small street-level houses or storefront centers in Vancouver, or in L.A., in Montreal, up in Buffalo, down in... There's some Buffalo chanters here. And "chant" comes from the word enchant, which means to make oneself into, to make a magical spell about oneself. So there are Santa Fe centers also.

*In other words, the indigenous, the importation of a very strange oriental form, almost a hard-shelled Baptist oriental form, in the sense of its traditionality and its fundamentalism, its reliance on ancient texts and interpretation of ancient texts by long tradition of teachers-it's strange it's so far-out and ritualized an Indian form should take root in the United States a little more naturally than the more Protestant Vedānta Society or the extremely rigorous Zen groups that have taken root. I think partly it's due to the magnanimity or generosity or the old-age charm, wisdom, cheerfulness of Swami Bhaktivedanta, his openness of heart, his willingness to come down on to the street, and his sense of his own divinity and the divinity of others around that it's been possible for the bhakti-yoga cult of India to be planted very firmly here in America so that now there are communes, or ashrams, functioning on the basis of the Kṛṣṇa rituals, which are, in some respect, a model for all those anarchists and political people who are interested in establishing indigenous American communes. The regulations on food, on sexual relations, which generally cause much confusion in mutual-living health pads, the regulations on sleep and thinking process, are like an interesting model to study for those who are interested in forming affinity groups or large family communes. I will have my turn at language tomorrow because I'm giving a poetry reading at the student union somewhere-I'm not sure where*-which is my regular thing, which is why I was invited here by the student activities committee. So I will cut myself off now and be brief and leave the rest of the evening to Swami Bhaktivedanta, who will give a language explanation, or whatever he wants to say, of the cultural, or metaphysical or religious roots in... Pardon me?

Student: What time?



Allen Ginsberg: I don't know. The time now...



Hayagrīva: Mention we'll have more chanting.



Allen Ginsberg: Yes, I will. So the rest of the evening will be, Swami Bhaktivedanta will explain his divine self. Then we will continue chanting. Swamijī. (applause)



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*My dear boys and girls, I thank you very much for your coming here and participating with this saṅkīrtana function. The saṅkīrtana function, or... It is called saṅkīrtana*-yajña, sacrifice. There is a statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that saṅkīrtanair yajñaiḥ prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. In this age... As poet Ginsberg has explained to you, this is called Kali-yuga, or very degraded age. From the spiritual point of view, from material point of view also, people are reducing their duration of life and their merciful tendency, their strength, their stature. If you study scrutinizingly, you will see that your stature is reducing, your memory is reducing, your duration of life is also reducing in this Kali-yuga. There are many symptoms. So Bhāgavata recommends, "For self-realization in this age, simply by performing this sacrifice of saṅkīrtana..." The saṅkīrtana-yajña is so nice that at once you get transcendental ecstasy, and from spiritual consciousness, you try to join. Even a child desires like that. This is the effect of the saṅkīrtana-yajña. And Lord Caitanya, the inaugurator of this movement five hundred years ago, He says that if you chant this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, then the first installment of your gain will be that all the dirty things in your heart will be cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And when we are in clean heart, then the next stage will be bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam: "The problems of material existence will be solved." And when you are spiritually steady on the platform of saṅkīrtana-yajña, then your original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and its concomitant joyfulness begins.



*This thing also is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*It is said there that "When one comes on the platform of spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, at that time he becomes completely joyful." Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. Prasanna means joyful; ātmā means soul. And the symptom is na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He does not lament, neither hanker. In the material existence we have got two diseases: hankering for things which we do not possess, and lamenting for things which we have lost. But actually we don't possess anything; *everything belongs to God. That is the Vedic injunction. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Whatever we see, that is the property of the Supreme Lord. And this claiming that "This is my property. This is my body. This is my country. This is my home. This is my..., this is my...," this is called illusion. Actually we do not possess anything. So when you actually come on the spiritual consciousness, you understand that nothing belongs to you. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Kāṅkṣati means hankering, and socati means lament.



*Then the next stage is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you can see everything, or every living entity, on the equal status. People are trying to come to that platform of oneness, but that is only possible when you come to the spiritual platform, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the material platform it is not possible. Practically we see the United Nations, they are trying to come to oneness of all nations, but they failed. Simply the flags are increasing. Instead of being united, we are increasing our flags. So if you want actually oneness, then you have (to) come to that platform of brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]-prasannātmā, joyfulness. Everyone is hankering after joyfulness. How that joyfulness can be attained? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*Ātmā means soul, your self. We are, every one of us, hankering after that peace and tranquillity. How it is possible? Bhāgavata says, yayātmā suprasīdati. Suprasīdati means completely becomes satisfied. How it is possible? Now, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ: "That is the first*-class occupational duty by which you develop your love of God." That is first class. The test of religion... Every religion has got some conception of God. That's all right. But if by following the principles of that religion, if you see that you are developing your love for God, then that is first class. Otherwise, Bhāgavata says, it is simply wasting time laboring.



dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



The Bhāgavata says that "You are very nice man. You are very honest to your occupational duty. That is all right. But if by discharging your occupational duty you do not develop your eagerness to understand what is God and what is love of God," then, Bhāgavata says, "it is simply laboring and wasting time." That is the test. And why we should try to increase our love of God? That is also explained: ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. Ahaitukī, without any cause. We should love God without any cause. Just like we go to temple, church, with a motive. We go there: "O God, give us our daily bread. I have come to You for my bread." That is not love of God. That is love of bread. (applause)



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given nice sample of love. He is playing the part of Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is the conjugal consort of Kṛṣṇa. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not dry. You'll see the picture, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is a boy, sixteen years old, and Rādhārāṇī, a young girl, a little younger than Kṛṣṇa. They are enjoying, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmāt. There are different potencies of God. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. In the Vedic literature you'll find, Vedas, "God has many energies." Parāsya śaktiḥ. Śakti means energy, power. Vividhaiva, multi, various. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svabhāva... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva, na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is the injunction of Vedas. "You cannot find anyone equal or greater than God. Nobody can be equal with God; *nobody can be greater than God." Then he is not God. Na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca. Sama means equal; *adhika means greater. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. They have analyzed who is God. The great sages, the liberated sages, they are not fools, rascals, that they will accept anyone God. No. They will test. This is the test. If you find somebody, that he is neither lower than anyone, neither equal to anyone, then he is God. There are other, many definitions of God. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). Analytical study. Try to understand God. This is the business of human form of life, not that simply eating, sleeping and mating and defending. These are animal business. The animal knows how to eat, how to sleep, how to mate, and how to defend in its own way. So that is common formula for human being or animal. But there is one speciality in human society or human being*-he can understand God, what is God. If I explain to a human being, however illiterate, uneducated, he may be, if he has simply these two ears, he will understand what is God. Therefore the Vedic information is called śruti. Just try to hear. You haven't got to be educated or literate. God has given you these two ears and you can learn. Simply you have to learn from the authorized sources. Then you will understand God. And when you understand God, then you develop love of God. And when you develop love of God without any motive and without any impediment, then you find, "Oh," svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42], "I have no more any demand. I am completely satisfied." Try to come to this platform, transcendental stage. You cannot be happy simply by material advancement. That is not possible.

*That is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Every one of us are rascals, born ignorant. But we have got the capacity to take the message of God from authorized information. That we have got. So Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ: "All living entities who are born ignorant, whatever they are doing for advancement of society, culture, education, civilization, all such activities are defeat only if he does not inquire what he is." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Ātma-tattvam. So long one does not inquire, "What I am? What is God? What is this material nature? What are these activities? What are our relationships?"-if these inquiries are not there, then all our activities are simply defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Yāvan na prītir mayī vāsudeve: "So long one does not develop his dormant love of God," na mucyate deha-yogena tāvat, "so long he will not be able to get out of this repeated birth and death and transmigration of the soul." This transmigration of soul, repeated birth and death, is a diseased condition of the spirit soul. That we do not know. Neither in our education system there is any department of knowledge teaching what is the soul, what is after death, what was before birth. There is no science. It is very lamentable. Education in the name of simply eating, sleeping, and mating, this is not education. If my bodily conception continues... The Bhāgavata says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke: [SB 10.84.13] "Anyone who is thinking that this body of flesh and bone is self, he is an ass." (laughter) Sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go-kharaḥ. Khara means ass. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. And by his conceiving this body as self... They have no even common reason that "This bag of flesh, bone, urine, stool and secretion-can it be soul? Can it be self?" But they are finding out by exercising this body to find out the soul. The soul is there, but you cannot see it by material instrument. It is very fine. It is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. These are explained in the Vedic literature. So how you can find with your material eyes? You cannot see it. And because you cannot see it, you are concluding there is no soul. That is the ignorance. There is. There is soul, and this body has developed on the platform of that soul, and that soul is migrating from one body to another. That is called evolution. And that evolutional process is going on, 8,400,000's of species of life, aquatics, birds, beasts, plants, and so many species of life. And we have got now this developed consciousness, human form of life. We should properly utilize it. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We simply educating people, "Don't waste your valuable life, the human form of life. If you are missing this chance, you are committing suicide." That is our propaganda. Don't commit suicide. Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*And the process is very simple. You haven't got to take difficult processes like yoga system or philosophical, speculative system. That is not possible in this age. That is... I am not speaking from my own experience, but I am taking the experience of big ācāryas and big stalwart sages. They say that kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. If you want to realize yourself, if you want to know what is your next life, if you want to know what is God, if you want to know what is your relationship with God, all these things will be revealed to you-this is real knowledge*-by simply chanting this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. It is practical. We are not charging anything. We are not bluffing you that "I shall give you some something, secret mantra, and charge you fifty dollars." No. It is open for everyone. Please take it. That is our request. We are begging you, "Don't spoil your life. Please take this mantra. Chant wherever you like." It has no hard and fast rules you have to follow. Whenever you like, wherever you like, any condition of life... Just like we chanted half an hour before. Any condition, you felt ecstasy. Similarly, you can continue this. Chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It is given to you free. But if you want to know what is this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra through philosophy, through knowledge, through logic, we have got volumes of books. Don't think that we are simply sentimentally dancing. No, we have got background. So try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I have especially come to your country to deliver you this good message, because if you accept this, if you can understand this science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, other part of the world will also follow, and the face of the world will be changed. That is a fact.

*So therefore I request you that you take this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, with you, and wherever you live, in whatever condition you are, you don't require to change. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ prāyaśa ajita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. Caitanya Mahāprabhu discussed about spiritual realization with one of his great devotees called Rāmānanda Rāya. And Rāmaṇanda Rāya placed before Him many theories expounded in the Vedic literature. And at last, when Rāmānanda Rāya placed this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva... Don't be foolishly try to speculate to understand the unlimited. It is not possible. By your tiny senses you cannot understand the unlimited. It is not possible. Therefore the first recommendation is that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya. Don't try to be a dry speculator to understand the ultimate truth. Namanta. Just become meek and humble. Namanta eva san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. And try to receive the message from authorized sources. Then sthane sthitaḥ śruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhiḥ: in whatever condition you are, you don't require to change. You simply hear. Then a day will come when you will be able to conquer the Supreme Lord, who is unconquerable. God is great, nobody can conquer, but if you simply follow this process, then*-in whatever condition you are, simply try to hear about God from authorized sources-then one day you will be able to conquer God within your hand. This is also confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

*advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam

*ādyaṁ purāṇa*-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

*vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma*-bhaktau...

[Bs. 5.33]



*You cannot find out, simply you find out searching in the Vedas or scripture where is God. You have to conquer Him by your love. He will reveal to yourself. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*Everything is clearly explained there. Please try to read this Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. It is science of God. You will understand... You will realize. And chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will cleanse your heart. And after cleansing your heart, if you read one chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, you will understand gradually what is God, what you are, what is your relationship with God. And when you understand all these things and you develop your love of God, you become perfectly happy.



So we want to see you all happy. That is our program. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Every one of you become happy. But you must take the path how you can be happy. This is the path, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. (applause) (end)



690607LE.NV

Lecture

-

New Vrindaban, June 7, 1969



Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja? You can sit down here. That's all. No more want. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja feels inconvenience. Yes.



So I thank you very much for you participating in this saṅkīrtana movement.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*This is a verse from Vedic scripture, Bṛhan*-nāradīya Purāṇa, that "In this age, if you want to realize yourself, then the simplest process is to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.' ' It has got so transcendental power that simply by participating in this chanting process, gradually you will come to the highest stage of transcendental position. How it happens? That is also described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*, is present before you in three features. Simply you have to make your senses perfect to perceive it. *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*, is a person, a person like you, like me. Just like we are facing each other, similarly, when you are spiritually perfect, you will be able to see Kṛṣṇa exactly like face to face.



*Kṛṣṇa is not imperson. He is imperson also. He is present in three features: by His personal feature, by His impersonal features, and His localized feature. By His personal feature, He is always present in His abode known as Kṛṣṇaloka or Vaikuṇṭhaloka in the spiritual sky. And by His impersonal feature He is present as impersonal Brahman effulgence. You will find in the Bhagavad*-gītā also, brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā: "I am the source of Brahman effulgence." Brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Similarly, in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated,

*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa*-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, He has got rays from His body. Just like you see the sunshine. The sunshine is the rays of the body of the sun*-god. That you are seeing every day. You can see only the sun globe. But if you have got power, as you are trying to go to the moon planet, similarly, if some day if you get such scientific power and you can go through the sun planet, then you can see there sun-god. It is not imagination; *it is a fact. Just like in every planet there is a predominating man. Take for example in this planet, the president of United States is to be a predominating personality. Similarly, in every planet there is a predominating personality, and the predominating personality in the sun globe is called Vivasvān. The name is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Kṛṣṇa says that "First of all I spoke this Bhagavad-gītā, bhakti-yoga, imaṁ yogam, to the sun*-god Vivasvān." The name is there. Just like your president's name is Mr. Johnson or Ni..., or...?



Devotee: Nixon.



*Prabhupāda: Nixon. Yes. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, in every planet there is a president, and this president is called Vivasvān. Vivasvān manave prāha. And Vivasvān spoke this yoga system to his son Manu, the present Manu. He is present, the... The father of the mankind is called Manu. From Manu this word has come, "man," or manuṣya. So vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt: "And Manu spoke to his son, Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. In this way, by disciplic succession, either from the father to the son or from the spiritual master to the disciple, this knowledge is coming. Just like you know your forefather's name-suppose the grandfather of your grandfather. How do you know? By the paramparā system. Your grandfather's grandfather was known to his son, then his son, then his son, then his son, then your father, then you are. You cannot know directly; you have to know by the step. Similarly, you have to know the previous personalities by this paramparā, disciplic succession. You cannot speculate how is your grandfather's grandfather. You have to hear from your father or grandfather. That is the process. Similarly, you cannot imagine what is God. You have to hear from the disciplic succession who is coming from God. Then you will understand what is God. So that is the personal understanding of God.



Then impersonal understanding of God, just Brahman... Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is standing on Brahman." Just like materially you understand: everything in the material manifestation, that is depending on the sunshine. The trees, as soon as there is sunshine, there is green foliage. As soon as there is no sunshine, there is no leaves, no greenness. So everything is depending on sunshine. The sunshine is also depending on Kṛṣṇa; *therefore Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of all causes. That is Kṛṣṇa realization. You can realize Him personally, you can realize Him impersonally, and you can realize Him localized. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "Arjuna, that Supreme Personality of Godhead is situated, localized, in everyone's heart." Just like the sun globe is there, and the sun globe's effulgence is the impersonal representation of the sun-god. And suppose there are five millions of people standing in the sunshine, and everyone will see the sun is above his head. That is localized. You go five thousand miles away and ask your friend here, "Where is the sun?" Your friend will say that "It is on my head." And you will also see it is on your head. As it is materially possible, why not spiritually? So spiritually, Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Simply you have to realize it.

*How you can realize it? That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, even if you do not realize, simply if you come here and chant and dance, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, because you are chanting and hearing, you are getting piousness; *you are becoming purified*-simply by joining. This temple is situated just to give you facility for your purification. Why don't you take advantage? I am very glad that you have all come, and it will be further our enjoyment and pleasure if you come and join. Please come here, join here. We have got very nice arrangement. We supply prasādam, we have got dancing, we have got chanting. Why you should deny it? (laughter) And if you join us, then gradually you realize what you are, what is God, what is this world, what is your relationship. Then your life becomes successful. You'll not be confused. You will understand what is real life. Simply by the spell of the material qualities you have become covered. But if you come here, if you hear and chant, then gradually... Kṛṣṇa is within you. He is sitting within your heart as a friend, not as an enemy. Kṛṣṇa is always your friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. You are searching out friends to talk with, to joke with, to love. Kṛṣṇa is sitting there for that purpose. If you love Kṛṣṇa, if you make friendship with Kṛṣṇa, if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life will be successful. You haven't got to search out any other friend. The friend is already there. Either you are a boy or a girl, you will find a nice friend within yourself. That is yoga system, when you realize this friend.

*So this friend is so nice, as soon as you become little inclined to hear about Him, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ-about Kṛṣṇa, not any other nonsense talks, simply about Kṛṣṇa-then Kṛṣṇa will be so pleased. He is within you. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ sthaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Hṛt means heart. Antaḥ stho. Antaḥ stho means "who is sitting within your heart." So hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. We cannot see Kṛṣṇa, we cannot realize Kṛṣṇa-He is sitting within my heart-due to my contamination, abhadrāṇi. We have contaminated ourself with so many material desires. That is contamination. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is pure. Just like you take the sea water*-it is pure. But as soon as it touches the land, it becomes impure, cloudy, muddy. Similarly, your consciousness, because you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, is as clear as Kṛṣṇa, but due to this contamination with this material world, you have contacted the muddy things of three qualities: ignorance, passion, and goodness. So if you hear about Kṛṣṇa, these muddy things will be precipitated and they will be separated. Then, gradually, as the..., proportionately, as you clear these muddy qualities of the material nature, you come to pure consciousness.

*First of all, you come to the goodness of consciousness. When you come to the goodness of consciousness, then you become a brāhmaṇa. What is the quality of brāhmaṇa? Satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. You come to the brahminical position, or stage. Then you will be truthful. First thing is truthful, satyam. Śamam, self-controlled; *damam, the senses are controlled, mind is controlled. We are practically driven by the uncontrolled mind and uncontrolled senses. So when you come to the brahminical position, then your senses become controlled, your mind becomes controlled. Just like our students, all our students, how they are controlling? They are also born in your country. They are also Americans. None of my students are Indian. But how they are controlling illicit sex life? How they are controlling not to drink, not to take any intoxicants? How they are controlling not to take part in gambling? No illicit sex, no meat*-eating. You are born eating meat. How they have given up? Because they have come to the stage of this brahminical understanding-satya, śama, dama, titikṣa. Titikṣa means tolerance. Suppose any one of my students was practiced to all these habits and by my word, if they have given up, they may be feeling some inconvenience. Still, they are tolerating. That should be done, tolerating. Titikṣa, ārjava, simplicity. They have taken my words by simple faith, simplicity, ārjava, sad-lata (?). Then jñānam, then their understanding what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *vijñānam, they are applying in practical life. Āstikyam, they are believing in the śāstras, in the Vedic literature. Brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam: [Bg. 18.42] "This is the nature of a brāhmaṇa." Therefore, as soon as I see, I give him the sacred thread: "Yes. You are now recognized brāhmaṇa."

*Then, from this brāhmaṇa stage you have to become a Vaiṣṇava. That is transcendental stage. Simply by hearing... This chanting and hearing will raise you, higher and higher stages of life. Nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu [SB 1.2.18]. By this process, when your contamination will be almost clear, not completely clear, almost clear... Completely clear is not possible because we are in this material world, we have got this material body. But Bhāgavata says, "Even it is not completely cured, almost cured," nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā... Nityam means daily, regularly. Bhāgavata-sevayā. Bhāgavata means in relationship with Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. So these boys are engaged in reading Bhāgavatam, in reading Bhagavad-gītā and other literatures which gives them knowledge about Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And bhāgavata means the devotee. They have accepted a spiritual master, as a good devotee, so they are serving, bhāgavata-sevayā. Then bhagavati... Then, by this process, he becomes fixed up in the transcendental loving service of God. In this way, evaṁ prasanna-manaso [SB 1.2.20]? "By this way, he becomes jolly." Because jolliness is my original consciousness, but due to my material contamination I am not jolly, I am morose, I am full of anxiety. So as soon as you become freed from this material contamination... Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ. How you can become such happy mood? Bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ: by the bhakti-yoga process.

*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānaṁ

*mukta*-saṅgasya jāyate

[SB 1.2.20]



*Bhāgavata*-tattva... This is a science to understand God. Just like you have got different departmental sciences to understand perfectly a subject matter, similarly, this bhāgavata-tattva, this truth of God, you can understand by practicing this bhakti-yoga, and you become jolly. (laughter) Yes. This is practical.



So this is a great science. It is a great science. Don't be confused and frustrated. Take this. Take this. It is very easy. You come to this temple and chant and dance and take prasādam and be jolly and be happy.

Thank you very much. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now chant again. (end)



690622LE.NV

Lecture

-

New Vrindaban, June 22, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that this Kṛṣṇa*-saṅkīrtana-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare-paraṁ vijayate: "All glories." Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Because the śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana will increase the ocean of transcendental bliss. Now, here in this meeting we are present. I am an old man of seventy-four years old, and here is a child, one year old. So beginning from this child, abala-vṛddha-vanita (?), the Sanskrit word. Beginning from the child, woman, up to the old man, everyone can take part in this saṅkīrtana movement. Actually we can see practically that everyone can take part in it. This is such a nice yoga system. There is no need of any material qualification. But we don't neglect material qualification. We can dovetail material qualification to render service to Kṛṣṇa, and that will make our all material possessions, assets, successful. (child making noises, like japa) He is trying to...



Brahmānanda: Yes. He's reaching(?).



*Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He is seeing mother's. You see? Therefore such child, they are all fortunate child. You see? He is learning automatically how to chant, how to keep the beads. So śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga*-bhraṣṭo sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. It is very nice that you have got tendency for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and this is the duty of father and mother, to raise children in that Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that this child can be saved from further bondage of birth and death. Bhāgavata says that "One should not become father, one should not become mother, unless they are able to save the child from the impending mouth of death. And hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti: "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody can be saved from the cycle of birth and death." That is not possible. There are many Vedic versions. Yāvan na prītir mayi vāsudeve na mucyate deha-yogena tāvat. Deha-yoga means contacting this material body. We are not this material body, but we have contacted. Just like we contact some infectious disease, similarly, we have somehow or other contacted. Deha-yogena. And that is the cause of all our misery.



*So Bhāgavata says, yāvan na prītir mayi vāsudeve. So long one does not develop this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no chance of getting out of this contact of material body. We can get very nice body or very bad body. That doesn't matter. We can get a dog's body, or we can get a demigod's body. We can live for five minutes. There are many insects and germs which live for five minutes, and there are living entities in Brahmaloka who live for five millions of years. All varieties of life there are within this universe. By Kṛṣṇa's creation, you will find, aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān: the bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. You will find. Just see in this New Vrindaban. There are big trees, also small, very insignificant, so small tree that you are trampling over it. So in the living condition there are so many varieties, 8,400,000's of species. But the problem is not to promote ourself from this small body to big body, from the ant's body to elephant's body. That is not our problem. Not to accept this material body*-to have our spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Just like Kṛṣṇa has sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, Nārāyaṇa has got sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So that is our problem.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give us that opportunity, and those who are gṛhasthas, family men, their duty is to raise their children to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that actually the child will have full advantage of having a nice parent, nice father and mother. So this New Vrindaban we have selected to grow a community of such nice father and mother. There is sannyāsī also, brahmacārī, gṛhastha. We have no such distinction. Yei kṛṣṇa bhaje sei guru haya. Anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and full in the understanding of science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become a spiritual master, a teacher. So in this Vṛndāvana, New Vrindaban, you should live in such a way, ideal way, that people will learn that what is actually human life, what is human civilization, how, what is, it is meant for. That we have to teach to the world. So those who are conducting this institution, my request is that you develop this place in such a nice way. And you can practically see. If we train... Just this child is dancing. This child is trying to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa with beads. Simply they are to be instructed. They must have the association. Then there will be a new growth of population, not like cats and dogs, but actually demigods, devatā. Demigods means devotees of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And asura means nondevotee. So there is enough population of asura in this world. And the people are not happy because āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This demonic civilization is killing the human race. So it is the responsibility of the members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness to save so many ignorant, innocent people. They have got this human form of life to end all miserable condition of material existence. They are being misguided simply just like animals. It is not a good civilization. So this place is out of contact. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that here no man of ordinary interest will come here. It is in a very nice location. It is beyond the reach of the ordinary class of men. (laughter) Just like Howard's father said that "I'll never come here." (laughter)

Kīrtanānanda: Hṛṣīkeśa's lawyer, he just walked up here two miles looking for his dog.



Prabhupāda: Oh, his dog lost?



Kīrtanānanda: Yes. And he is all upset.



Prabhupāda: Oh. So it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. (laughter) He had some affection for the dog. Now he can turn his affection for Kṛṣṇa. The dog is lost. So... No, dog will not be lost. He will greet. The dog, they are very... They will soon smell and find out the way. Dog will never be lost.



*So our Mr. D.D. (referring to Dvārakādhiṣa) is in samādhi. Let him take rest. You can take rest. Go. (laughs) Yes. You are feeling samādhi, Mr. Ekendra? No, you can go and take rest. Yes. You are very good. So these children, they are coming. I especially request Swami Kīrtanānanda to take care of them. And here is a nice, motherly girl, Satyabhāmā, and her husband. They are all... So take care of these children. If you can make one child Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is a great service. Kṛṣṇa will be very pleased. So, so many children will come. This place is nice. And Kṛṣṇa will give us all opportunity. So I will also come again, and I like this place. So... Because I have come to preaching work, so let me finish whatever little work is still remaining. I want to go once to London and Germany. Then I will entrust the whole thing to you. So let us cooperate in this movement very nicely, and here in this spot, New Vrindaban, the woman's business will be to take care of the children, cooking cleansing, and churning butter. (laughter) And those who have the knowledge of typing can help in typing also. No other hard work. That's all. This is for woman. And for men, hard work, field work, taking care of the cows, of the animals, to go to collect wood, to construct building. In this way cooperate. The girls who are here, they should prepare nice prasādam so that the boys, in time they can get their prasādam, timely. This is the duty. And they must be given timely breakfast, lunch prasādam. They will work hard. And the churning business is for the girls. That will keep your health very nice. Ma Yaśodā, the mother of Kṛṣṇa, just see how exalted she was. Materially, she was rich also. She had many maidservants. Still, she took pleasure in churning. You have seen the picture. Recently in Los Angeles they had the festival, dadhi*-maṇḍa... What is called? Butter, butter ceremony. So people took part in churning, and there were twelve pounds of butter churned in the meeting. Yes. And they collected good amount by churning.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice. We churn butter and have festival and live nicely and dance, Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very nice life. So just cooperate and try to improve. It will improve if you be sincere. Kṛṣṇa will send all help. And some day it will be actually replica of that Vṛndāvana. And our Kīrtanānanda Swami, he was in Vṛndāvana. He has got the ideas. Here is Keśighāṭa also. And try. Cooperatively you can do. Kṛṣṇa will help. So... And Jack and you... You have decided to remain here? Very nice. You have got very nice child. And now Mr. Ekendra is feeling samādhi. He can also take... (laughter) Let him take rest. You take rest. Ekendra? You take rest. Go. He is...

Devotee: He says he wants to stay.



Prabhupāda: No. You are feeling samādhi. Take rest. Yes. That will be nice. Then I shall call you again. No? All right. Let him stay. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let us begin. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do it like that, as I have done. Little, little. Yes. (devotees chanting japa; initiation ceremony beginning?)



Kīrtanānanda: Three times. Now like this.



Brahmānanda: Drink. Drink.



Kīrtanānanda: And now once and throw.



Prabhupāda: Throw it. Yes. That's all. You take. (end)





690914LE.LON

Lecture

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London, September 14, 1969



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



jayatāṁ suratau paṅgor

*mama manda*-mater gatī

*mat*-sarvasva-padāmbhojau

*rādhā*-madana-(mohanau)



*mahat*-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes

*tamo*-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam

*mahāntas te sama*-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

[SB 5.5.2]



*Last meeting we have been describing the symptoms of mahātmā, great soul. So the first symptom is that he is equal to everyone, sama*-cittāḥ. And the next qualification is praśāntā. Praśāntā means pacified. He's not disturbed by any material anxiety. And why a great soul should be disturbed by material anxieties? Because he has no material desire. Anyone who has got material desire, he is full of material anxiety. But one who has no material desire, one who lives only for serving Kṛṣṇa, naturally he has no anxieties. Praśāntā. There is another verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam quoted by Yamunācārya, that he says, bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ.



bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ

*praśānta*-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ

*kadāham aikāntika*-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ

*praharṣayiṣyāmi sanātha*-jīvitam



This is very important verse. Śrī Yamunācārya says, "My dear Lord," bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ, "when I shall be fully engaged in Your service?" This is the process of being freed from all anxiety. Just like this child. This child is restless. He's going here, going there. But if the child is given some engagement, toy, which he likes, then she will remain there pacified and will not disturb anyone. That is natural. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So long we are not again linked up with His service, with His... So long we are not again reestablished in our lost relationship with Kṛṣṇa, we shall remain restless. That is our natural condition. Just like the child is crying, restless. But as soon as the mother takes the child on the lap, the child is immediately pacified. Why? Because the child wants that. She cannot express what she wants. She is crying. But she has no language to express, but she can express her feelings. As soon as she is on the lap of the mother, she understands, "Now I am fully satisfied." You can also understand. So even there is no language, there is a stage of satisfaction. That stage is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as one comes to the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he'll be satisfied. And unless he comes to that stage, he'll always be disturbed, full of anxieties.



*Therefore our prayer should be how we shall be twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ praśānta-niḥśeṣa. I'm just trying to explain the word praśānta, pacifism, how one can be pacified, fully satisfied. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, a boy. He wanted the kingdom of his father and he underwent severe penances to see God, Nārāyaṇa, so that he may ask His benediction to be, I mean to say, seated on the throne of his father. That was his desire. He went to forest to undertake severe penances to see Nārāyaṇa so that he can ask from Him the benediction that he should have..., seated on the throne of his father. Because by the intrigue of his stepmother, he was rejected by his father. He wanted... That material desire we, every one of us in conditioned state, we want. Sometimes we compete. We become very much obstinate, that "I must have this," and we work very hard. Just like in Europe, that Hitler, he wanted supremacy over Europe, and he fought very valiantly. But at the end he became vanquished. Similarly, in the material world we have got so many desires and we want to fulfill it*-and for which we work very hard. But at the end it becomes frustrated. That is the nature of the material world. You cannot have anything here permanent, however hard you work... You may achieve that. Not only in this material world. Even you achieve the liberation, perfectional stage, as the impersonal philosophers want. They want nirvāṇa. Just like Buddhists, they want nirvāṇa, extinction of this material conditional life. That is called nirvāṇa. And the Māyāvādī philosophers, impersonalists, they want not only extinction of these material pangs but they want to be situated in spiritual consciousness only. But our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that you cannot keep yourself in spiritual consciousness unless you are fully engaged in spiritual activities. That is the perfect philosophy.

*So Yamunācārya is praying to the Lord, "My dear Lord, when I shall achieve that stage of life when I shall be fully engaged in Your service?" Bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ. Nirantaraḥ means without any interval. In the material world, after working for some time, we want an interval for rest. But if you are actually engaged in spiritual activities, you won't like to be rested. You want to continue always: work, work, work. Rest will be disgusting. Of course, so long we have got this material body, we have to take rest, but this rest is also not required, because in the spiritual world there is no such fatigue. Everyone is always active. So that is perfectional stage. Bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ praśānta*-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. And how one can be pacified fully? When he does not manufacture the fulfillment of desire. We manufacture. The whole material world is going on by manufacturing ideas. The so-called scientists, the so-called philosophers, poets, they are manufacturing ideas that "We shall be happy in this way, in that way." So this will not help us, this manufacturing. I may be satisfied by some manufactured ideas. Just like in U.S.A. especially, the frustrated, confused younger generation, they are manufacturing ideas that "We shall be happy in this way." But that is not possible. You cannot be happy. So long you manufacture ideas, you may be pacified for some time, but it will not exist. Therefore you have to stop this manufacturing process, that "I shall be happy in this way." No. That is called free of anxieties. If you want to manufacture, that "I shall be happy in this way," that will also create another anxiety. That will create another anxiety. Therefore Yamunācārya says, praśānta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. Mano-rathāntaraḥ, this particular word, is used: "mind, on the chariot of mind." In the material stage of life, we are being driven by the chariot of mind. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, it is stated, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni. All living entities are traveling within this material world in different species of life, in different planets. Sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā: on the chariot given by the material energy. So that is mind.

*So, so long we shall travel on the chariot of the mind, mano*-ratha, then there is no question of our being freed from anxiety. Therefore we have to give up this chariot of mind. The chariot of mind will not give us satisfaction. We have to transcend the mental state, the intellectual state. The philosophers, they are intellectually trying to be happy. That also we have to transcend. We have (to) come to the spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ. And not only come to the spiritual platform, we must have spiritual engagement. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have got engagement. We are not only satisfied that "I am spirit," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. No. There must be duties of the Brahman. The Brahman must be engaged. Otherwise... Because we want some work, because we are active... We are not just like stones. We cannot sit down. So there must be activities. Just study the nature of the child. He's always active, must be doing something. Maybe it is useless, but how can you stop the child's activities? That is not possible. Similarly, we are active. So simply by understanding that "I am spirit soul" will not help me. I must be active in the spiritual world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone is engaged in some activity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that will make him praśānta. Niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ. That stage of pacified condition of life can be attained, as it is stated by Yamunācārya, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ. Aikāntika. Aikāntika means absolutely, without diverting my mind in any other thing; *nitya*-kiṅkaraḥ, eternally servant of God, eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. When I am convinced in that way, then I shall be happy. Kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi. Praharṣayiṣyāmi means "I shall be always jolly." How I shall be jolly? Sanātha-jīvitam: "Because I will (be) living under the protection of my Lord." Just like this child is happy. She's happy because it knows, the child knows that "I have got my parents. So as soon as there is some danger, I shall immediately call my mother, and mother will give me protection." This confidence is there. She doesn't care for anyone. She wants to go to touch the fire; mother is going behind to give her protection. That is natural.

*So as soon as you become free from all these designations, manufacturing process of the mind and intellect, and fully engage in Kṛṣṇa's service... Therefore, we require to be trained in the service of Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of representative of Kṛṣṇa, training. In this way, when we are fully trained, we shall reach that stage, oh, that "I am protected by Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa gives you assurance, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: [Bg. 18.66] "I shall give you liberation from all sorts of sinful reaction of your life." Then immediately I will come to Kṛṣṇa. Of course, it does not mean that anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative, he has finished all the reaction of his past sinful activities. That is not possible. Everyone is full with the result of his past sinful... Here in the material world, whatever you do, it is more or less all sinful activities. So therefore, our life is always full with sinful activity. So when you surrender to Kṛṣṇa through his transparent via media, not that immediately your sinful activities are stopped, but because you surrendered to the Supreme, He absorbs your sinful activities. He makes you free. But you should be conscious that "I shall not commit any more." Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He accepted Jagāi-Mādhāi, great sinful brothers, He simply asked them, "You simply promise that 'Henceforward we shall not commit any sinful activities.' Whatever you have done I am taking. I am absorbed." That is the process. So the Lord or the spiritual master absorbs. But we should be conscious that "We shall not commit any more sinful activities so that my spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa will have to again accept them on my behalf." We should be conscious. The Christian process, that going to church, confession, that is very nice. You confess. And God or God's representative is quite able to excuse you and to make you free from all sinful reaction. But why should you commit again? Why should you commit again? This is not good. Lord Jesus Christ... The Christians believe that he has taken the reaction of everyone's sinful activities and he has suffered by crucification. That's all right. But why should you commit again the same sins for which Lord Jesus Christ suffered? This is less intelligent. We should not indulge in that. In our ten kinds of offenses in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra there is one item, you know: nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. The... We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we are, I mean to say, becoming free from the sinful reactions of our past activities. But if we think that "Because I am now..., I have got a machine of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so I shall commit as much sin as possible and it will be counteracted by this process," oh, that is the greatest sin. You cannot do that. You cannot make Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra as agent of nullifying your sinful activities. Similarly, you cannot make God or His agent or His representative as a machine for counteracting your sinful activities. You should stop. Therefore niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. Niḥśeṣa. You must cease all kinds of sinful activities. We prescribe to our students that "You should not do this, you should not do this, you should not do this." That is a warning that these are the different gates of sinful activity. If you indulge in illicit sex life, then you open the gate of sinful activities, and you go deeper and deeper. Similarly, if you take meat-eating, that is also opening the gate of sinful activities. Similarly, if you indulge in gambling or intoxication... These are the gates. As Ṛṣabhadeva has said, tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. If you indulge in the process of... These are sense gratificatory process. Why a person eats meat? It is simply sense gratification. Now our students, they have given up eating meat. Are they dying? They are eating nicely, capatis, vegetables. So it is simply sense gratification, that "I like this." Why you like? This is not a liking thing. But we shall, for sense gratification we are prepared to enter into the darkest region of the hell. We should not do that. Therefore praśānta.

*So a spiritual master or a representative of Kṛṣṇa or a mahātmā, he is praśāntā. Praśāntā means he is freed from all these manufacturing process of the mind. He is no more conducted by the dictation of the mind. He is conducted by the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa's words. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā, Kṛṣṇa's words. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's words are not different. So if you abide by the words of Kṛṣṇa, just like Bhagavad-gītā-there are many others-then you are abiding by Kṛṣṇa. You are not abiding by the dictation of your mind. That should be the motto of our life. And a spiritual master or mahātmā is he who is situated in that position. He is not dictated by the mind. He is simply following the scriptural injunctions. Therefore he is praśāntā. Sama-cittāḥ praśāntāḥ. And vimanyavaḥ. Vimanyavaḥ means without any anger. Anger... A devotee should not be angry. But that does not mean that he has lost his capacity of anger. No. Everything is there. Just like a person does not have illicit sex. That does not mean he has no sexual capacity. He has full sexual capacity, but he does not want to do it unless it is required for certain purpose. That example is given: just like the tortoise. The tortoise, as soon as he likes, he opens his different limbs from the body, and as soon as he does not like, immediately winds within the body. So we should be like that. That is real control.

*So vimanyavaḥ means that devotee does not generally become angry. But that does not mean that he has lost his power of becoming angry. No. He can become angry at any time, when it is required. And he should be angry? He is angry, krodha bhakta*-dveṣi janam. He'll be angry when there is somebody who's against God and God's devotee. He'll be angry. As soon as one says, blasphemes, that "I am God. There is no God," immediately he should be very angry because he is preaching false things. He's blaspheming against the Supreme Lord, that he is making God as very cheap. He should be angry. Bhakta-dveṣi. Just like our student Govinda dāsī in Hawaii. In a meeting she became very angry when the so-called incarnation of God and God... Perhaps you know this incident. And the people did not say, of course, Govinda dāsī, but they heard her husband, Gaurasundara. But she became very angry, that "These rascals," and so many things she spoke. (chuckles) So she did right, like a heroine. I very much liked it. So we should be very much angry. When? When there is anything against God and God's devotee. But generally, for my personal interest, I should not be angry. "All right, if you like to call me by ill names, I don't mind. You go on with your business." I do not become angry. So just like Hanumānjī, Vajrāṅgajī. Vajrāṅgajī, he set fire in the kingdom of Rāvaṇa. A very beautiful kingdom, almost made of gold, but he set fire in that capital of Laṅka. He became very angry. But why he became angry? Not for his personal interest. But he was angry for the interest of Lord Rāma. Sītā, the Lakṣmī, wife of Lord Rāma, was kidnapped by this man Rāvaṇa, and he was very angry that "He has kidnapped my Lord's spiritual energy, Sītā. I shall set fire in his very valuable capital." So this anger, this demonstration of anger and setting fire was accepted as service.

*So we should know when to be angry. Not that for our personal interest we shall be. Generally, those who are devotees, they are not angry. Just like see the example of Arjuna. Arjuna was so much harassed, all the five brothers, by the opposite party, his cousin*-brothers. They insulted their wife, Draupadī. They wanted to make naked Draupadī because they lost Draupadī in the gambling. Therefore gambling is so sinful, you see. The kṣatriyas are allowed to gamble. So the bet was... They made a trick: "Now bet your wife." So if a kṣatriya is challenged to bet something, they cannot deny it. "Yes, I am betting my wife." And they lost in the game. So the wife became the property of the other party. So they wanted to retaliate only. So then, in the assembly they said, "Well, Draupadī has now become our property. Whatever we like, we can do. So we want to see her naked beauty." You see. This was the demand. So one of the brothers of Duryodhana was asked, "Make her naked. Let us see naked." So she became the property. The others, they did not protest. But Kṛṣṇa supplied clothing as much as required. You have seen the Draupadī's vastra-haraṇa. So these Pāṇḍavas, they were so much harassed. They were by trick taken away their kingdom; they were put into a house which was set into fire; their wife was insulted; *they were driven to the forest for twelve years. So many things harassed. But still, when there was fighting in front, when he saw his brothers are standing, he said, "Oh, I will have to fight with my, these cousin*-brothers. Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight." Just see how much tolerant. Not at all angry. This is the position. In order to make him angry, the whole Bhagavad-gītā was taught to him. Just see. This is the position, that for personal interest, a devotee or a mahātmā is never angry. Never angry. Just see the case of Arjuna. But when Kṛṣṇa, he understood that Kṛṣṇa wanted this fight, it is for Kṛṣṇa's desire, oh, he became immediately prepared: "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Yes, I shall fight. That's all right. I shall fight." And he fought and killed everyone. So generally, the devotees are not cruel, angry. But they can be the foremost angry person for Kṛṣṇa's sake. So generally, we should not be angry. A mahātmā is never angered.

*So vimanyavaḥ. Vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ. Hṛda means heart, and su means good, good heart. A devotee, a mahātmā, is good heart. How he is good heart? He sees everyone that "This living entity," especially human being, "he is engrossed in the clutches of māyā. He is suffering. Let me try to make him understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or his eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa." He tries everywhere. That is his business. He doesn't mind whether he is failure. Failure or success, he doesn't mind. But he thinks, "Oh, this conditioned soul is suffering. Let me do something." Therefore Vaiṣṇava's prayer is vāñchā*-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaiṣṇava, he is just like the ocean of mercy. He always feels for the sufferings of the humanity. That is their business. People think that they have taken relief from all social work. But a Vaiṣṇava is giving the best social service because he knows what is the cause of suffering, how people can be saved. Therefore he is suhṛdaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ means well-wisher friend. A Vaiṣṇava or spiritual master or a saintly person is suhṛdaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ means he is well-wisher friend. As Kṛṣṇa is suhṛdaḥ, He is the friend of all living entities... Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa's devotee, is also suhṛdaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. Suhṛdaḥ. Sādhava. And sādhava means well-behaved. Sādhavaḥ. Sadācāra. His character is firm, without any spot. So these are the qualifications of sādhu, mahātmā, or spiritual master. Sama-cittāḥ, praśāntā, vimanyavaḥ, suhṛdaḥ, and sādhavaḥ.

So when one is in contact with such person, then the door of liberation is open. If one is in contact with a pure devotee of the Lord, it should be understood, if he follows his instruction, then it is sure and certain that he is going to Kṛṣṇa without any fail.

Thank you very much. Any question? Yes.

Makhanlal: Prabhupāda, are all living entities, always under the protection at all times of the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead, at all times?



Prabhupāda: Yes. But generally, he is under the protection, but in spite of all protection, if he violates the rules and regulations, he become immediately subjected to the laws of nature. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, gives protection. He says,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*"You just surrender unto Me. You give up all other occupational duties. You simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and I'll give you," I mean to say, "immunity, or protection from all sinful..." But if you do not accept, Kṛṣṇa will not force you. So He is giving protection to everyone, generally. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Not only giving the human society*-the animal society, the birds, trees, every... Don't you see it, how the arrangement is there? Everyone is living under certain conditions. Just like a prisoner. Prisoners are condemned, at the same time, given protection by the government. Within the prison walls they are protected. If somebody comes to kill them, government immediately calls for military or police to protect them. But because they are condemned, they are put into the prison. Similarly, all living entities, they are children, they are sons of God. So God is giving them all protection. Kṛṣṇa is giving them all protection. But by misuse of their little freedom, they are misusing, they are misusing their liberty. Therefore they are put into this material world. Otherwise, generally, the protection is there. Any other questions?



*Yes, try to understand clearly this philosophy. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. These things are required. You should try to understand the transcendental subject. First of all surrender, praṇipāta. Then paripraśna. You cannot question if you are not surrendered. Just like the other day one rascal was asking*-he is not a surrendered soul-"Swamijī, you know Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Just see. So this is not the process of question. One must surrender. Otherwise, you have no right to question. Praṇipātena, paripraśnena, and sevayā. Sevayā means service. You must find out a suitable person where you can question and get the proper answer, a spiritual master. That means surrender. Then question. Question is not a challenge. Question is to understand. Which I could not follow, I may ask repeatedly to understand. So two sides: sevā, service; and surrender. And in the middle, paripraśna. So paripraśna is required. Otherwise how one can understand? So questions are required. But that question is not a challenge. You should not question any person by challenging spirit. You should simply question, being inquisitive to know. That is bona fide. Otherwise, if you question just to examine his strength, that will create only fighting spirit. That is not good.

So you should question, also put your question, to a person who can actually answer. That means you must question only to the spiritual master. Otherwise, you may be misled. He may give you some wrong information.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

*upadekṣyanti tad*-jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





690915LE.LON

Conway Hall Lecture

-

London, September 15, 1969



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for coming to this meeting, saṅkīrtana movement. This saṅkīrtana movement is very authorized, according to Vedic literature. Most of you are well acquainted with the studies of Bhagavad*-gītā. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also you'll find,



satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

*yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca

[Bg. 9.14]



*Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām. Those who are mahātmās... Mahātmā means great soul. Mahātmā is not created. Mahātmā means... That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, who is mahātmā. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births." Of course, at the present moment they do not believe whether there is birth after birth. But it is not the question of whether you believe or not believe. The truth is truth. So there is birth after death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You do not die after finishing this body. You accept another body. That you can experience daily. In your childhood... You can remember that you had a body just like this child. Now you are grown up. Where is that body? That body is gone. Now you have got a new body. But you know that "I had a childhood body like this. I was attending such and such meeting," but that body is now no longer existing.



*So this transmigration of the soul is very simple subject. Any sensible man can understand. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the very beginning of the instruction, Kṛṣṇa says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



Dhīra, those who are sober, intelligent, they are not bewildered when a living entity changes his body. So change of body is going on in every moment, in every second, imperceptibly. Medical science also accepts that in every second we are changing our blood corpuscles. That is a fact. We are changing body every moment. And the final change is called death. But actually, there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You accept another body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], "After many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān, "when a man or a living entity becomes actually wise and intelligent..." Not fools. Fools cannot understand. One has to become very intelligent. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. Jñānavān means very intelligent, wise man. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. Kṛṣṇa says that "After many, many births of struggle, or attempt for acquiring knowledge, when one comes to the summit point of understanding, he understands that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], the origin of everything is Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa." Vasudeva. Origin of everything is Kṛṣṇa.



*The Vedānta*-sūtra says, the first aphorism of Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now this human form of life is meant for inquiring about Brahman." And the Veda says that ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this body. I am spirit soul." And when one understands that he is spirit soul, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], at once he becomes joyful. That is the sign of brahma-jñāna. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. These are the versions of Bhagavad-gītā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. As soon as one realizes that "I am Brahman. I have nothing to do with this material world," his all anxieties immediately finished. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati. In the Vedānta-sūtra you'll also find, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The spirit soul or the Supreme Soul, both of them are ānandamaya. Ānanda means blissful, by nature blissful. Always wants to enjoy. That is the nature of spirit. But at the present moment, because we have forgotten that I am..., we are spirit soul, part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], identifying ourself with something else which is transitory, we are suffering. This is the cause. There are many places. Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād īśād api etasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. Viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ means converted thinking. I'm not this, any product of this material world, but I am thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am German," "I am Chinaman," "I am Russian," or "I am cats and dogs." There are so many. These are all designations. These are all designations. My real identity is ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am the part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. Qualitatively, I am one with God." Just like a particle of gold is also gold. A small particle of the ocean is also salty. The chemical composition of the small particle of ocean water is the same as the big ocean. So qualitatively, I am one with God, or Kṛṣṇa.

*When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, you'll please understand that I am meaning God. Because Kṛṣṇa means all*-attractive. Without being all-attractive, there cannot be God. God must be all-attractive, all-opulence, all-powerful, all-wise, all-renounced, all-beautiful. These are the qualifications of God. So bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. After cultivation of knowledge, many, many births... Cultivation of knowledge is also not easy for everyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of persons, human beings, one may be interested to know 'What is the aim of life? Why I am suffering?' " Everyone is suffering. That is the fact. In the material world nobody can be happy. If one is thinking that he's happy materially, he's a fool. Nobody can be happy. This is the place for distress. It is certified by miseries, as well as it is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right, it is a miserable place. I shall stay here. Never mind," but nature will not allow you to stay even. One day it will come, immediately kick you out. You have seen the great President of United States, Mr. Kennedy. He was supposed to be the happiest man in the world, but within a second he was kicked out, immediately. In our country Mahatma Gandhi was very popular leader, but in a second he was removed from the field. So we do not know when we shall be removed immediately by the freaks of nature. Therefore the intelligent man should try to know, "What is my constitutional position? Why I want to stay, but some superpower kicks me out of this stage?" Why? This is question. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra instructs that every human being, not the animals but human being, you should not be bewildered. You should question, "Why I am suffering threefold miseries? Why... I do not want death. Why death overcomes me?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. An intelligent man should always keep before him four principles of material miseries: birth, death, old age, and disease. These are instructions of the Bhagavad-gītā. One who is making progress in knowledge, he must keep before him these four problems-birth, death, old age, and disease. You may be very much proud of your scientific advancement of knowledge, but here is the real science. If you can overcome birth, death, old age and disease, then you can say your science is triumphant.

The Bhāgavata says, therefore, that,

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*Śrama eva hi kevalam. After executing your proper service or duties... Everyone is entrusted with some kind of duties. So if, after properly executing your duties as Indian or as American or Englishman or scientist or businessman or father or mother... So many duties we have got. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ, notpādayed yadi ratim [SB 1.2.8]. After executing your duties, if you do not develop your anxiety to inquire about Brahman... Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the beginning of Vedānta-sūtra. People are indulging in studying Vedānta, but Vedānta-sūtra is not a matter of speculation. It is to be studied from the authorities. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So if, after executing your duties very properly, if you do not develop your consciousness to know about yourself or the Supreme Self, then whatever you have done, it is simply waste of time. That's all. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Simply laboring after nothing. That's all. That means spoiling human life.



*So this message of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is to warn you, "Don't spoil this opportunity of human form of life. Don't spoil it." Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narāṇām. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending, these things are common to the animals and the human being. You eat; the animals eat. You sleep; the animals sleep. You mate; the animals mate. You are also afraid of your enemy; *they are also afraid of their enemy. So by discovering very palatable dishes to eat, or fashionable dresses for sex life, or atom bomb for defending... Eating, sleeping, mating and defending, these four principles, if you advance in these four principles only, that does not mean that you are better than animals. You are as good as animals. [break] ...under the control of this material nature. They are under the control of the spiritual nature. Daivī*-prakṛtim āśritāḥ. And what is the symptom of such persons, that he is under the control of spiritual nature? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

*bhajanty ananya*-manaso...

[Bg. 9.13]



*Bhajanti. This bhajan, that is the sign of mahātmā. You cannot create a mahātmā by rubberstamp or by votes. Mahātmā's symptom is that he's fully surrendered unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead and always engaged in glorifying His activities. His activities. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. He's always very much careful about executing devotional service. Namasyantaś ca mām. He's always offering obeisances. Tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. In this way they enjoy, tuṣyanti, and they're satisfied. These are the signs of mahātmā.



*So to become mahātmā and liberated... There are so many theories how to become liberated, how to become mahātmā, how to become religionist, how to become philosopher. There are many thoughts and theories, but real success of life is to become a mahātmā, broader, broad*-minded. Mahātmā means broader-minded. They are not, I mean to say, short-minded, that "I am this," "I am that"-"I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Indian," "I am German," "I am Englishman"-no. Mahātmā is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. He is freed from all designation. These are all our designations. When I think, "I am Englishman" or "I am Indian," this is my designation. Because as soon as I change this body, I accept another body. Then all my philanthropy as Englishman or Indian-immediately finished. Just like President Kennedy's presidentship and philanthropy all finished. Now we do not know where is Mr. Kennedy and what he is doing. But he has got a body. That's a fact. That I have already explained. But neither you know, neither he knows that "I was President," or "I was this or that." Therefore this is called illusion, māyā. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, keno māyāra bośe, yāccho bhese: "My dear friends, my dear brothers, why you are being washed away by the waves of this illusion? Don't be wasted. Don't be washed away." Just like if you are thrown into the ocean you are washed away by the waves, similarly, by the waves of this material nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], we are being washed away from one body to another, in this way. But actually we do not want this. Actually every one of us, we want a permanent body, a permanent situation, a permanent life, a blissful life, a life of knowledge. That is our hankering. But we do not know, do not know because we do not care to know. Otherwise everything is explained. You haven't got to study many books. You just simply study Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have therefore published this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is without any nonsensical interpretation. "As It Is." Then you'll get all the knowledge and you'll know what you are meant for. So this movement is just to revive your consciousness, original consciousness. Original consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all other consciousness which you have now acquired, these are superficial, temporary. "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that"-these are all superficial consciousness. Real consciousness is ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

*So Lord Caitanya, who started this movement five hundred years ago in Bengal, India, He immediately informs you that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], that our real identity, real constitutional position, is that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or God. Therefore you can understand what is your duty. Just like this hand is part and parcel of your body. Now, what is the duty of this hand? To serve the body, that's all. The hand cannot enjoy independently. It is not possible. If you cut off this hand from this body and throw into the street, nobody will care for it. But so long it is attached with this body, it has got millions and trillions of dollars' value. If there is any trouble, you will be prepared to spend any any amount. But when you are detached, this hand is detached from this body, you don't care for it, even it is trampled down by any man. So this is our position. We are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. There are many examples I can give you. Just like a machine part, a screw. If it is fallen down from the machine, it has no value. But if the machine is in trouble for want of that screw, you'll purchase that screw to set in and spend many dollars. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. If we remain attached with the Supreme Lord, then we have got value. Otherwise we have no value. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just be attached to Me. Then your all problems are solved."

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is... Just like you are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. You are now detached. We are trying to dovetail you. That's all. Nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. This is not an artificial imposition on you. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there. The living example you can see, that I have got now branches, twenty branches in Europe and America. They are neither Hindus nor Indian. How they are accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness? In our society, International Society for Krishna Consciousness, perhaps I am the only Indian. Perhaps I am the only Indian. Perhaps it is fact. But why, how they are taking it? Because it is there, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, within you, within me, within everyone. Simply we have to invoke it. That's all. And that invoking process is the saṅkīrtana movement. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you chant this simple process, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you'll very quickly clear up your heart and you will understand, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. You'll understand that Kṛṣṇa, Vasudeva, is everything. So this movement is neither manufactured nor bogus nor bluff, but it is genuine. It is authorized and it is natural, constitutional. Try to understand this philosophy. We are teaching nothing, no new philosophy. Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all. Unfortunately, Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world, but there are many rascal interpreters. They have spoiled the whole thing. Simply spoiled. So we are struggling against them. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and you get the thing. The thing is immediately delivered. That is our request. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He says, kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ: "My dear King..." He was explaining Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to King Mahārāja Parīkṣit. So he says... Before saying this, he described about the condition of this age of Kali. It is very... At the end of this age the condition will be very horrible. So... Of course, there is not much time. Otherwise I would have explained something. But you know. You are experiencing about this age. So after explaining the difficulties of this age, Kali-yuga, of which five thousand years we have already passed, and still, 427,000's of years are still remaining... So we have to pass through. So he says, "My dear King, I have explained to you the difficulties and miserable condition of this age, Kali-yuga. But there is a great opportunity." Asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ: "A very nice thing is there," mahān guṇaḥ, "very great opportunity, great boon." And what is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet: [SB 12.3.51] "Simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one can become freed from all contamination and he'll be eligible to be promoted to the spiritual param." Param means beyond this dark region. This material world is called tamaḥ, darkness. Just like there is no sun now. It is dark. We have to illuminate by electric light, by moonlight, by so many things. Actually the nature is dark. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Don't try to remain in this dark region. Go to that effulgent region." Tamasi mā jyotir gama. The Bhagavad-gītā also says the same thing. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So our request is that you read Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. Here there are many Englishmen and Indians. That is my request. I am not charging anything. I am not making a profession. This saṅkīrtana movement, we are chanting freely. You can hear. There is... Not that it is a secret thing-if you pay me something, then I shall disclose. No. It is open secret. Anyone can take, and there is no loss. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there is no loss, but there is great gain. You can try it. So we are freely distributing it by chanting. You can join with us, you try to understand us, what is our philosophy. We have got monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. We have got many publications, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. If you want to understand this movement through philosophy, science argument, we are prepared. There is ample opportunity for you. But if you simply chant, there is no need of education, there is no need of philosophizing. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and you gain everything.

Thank you.

Devotees: Haribol! [break]



Prabhupāda: ...mantra, you'll have Kṛṣṇa consciousness as soon as... The process is to cleanse your heart. So when your heart will be clear, then you'll understand your own position, your relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and your relationship with this world. Then you'll be able to chalk out your plan, what to do. But without knowing your identity, whatever you are doing, that is simply waste of time.



Guest (1) (Indian man): Would you say that Kṛṣṇa is God or Kṛṣṇa is love?



Prabhupāda: Well, without love how Kṛṣṇa can be God?



Guest (1): No, I ask you.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the real position. Kṛṣṇa means all*-attractive. Anything which is all-attractive you generally love.



*Guest (1): So the particle of man of the Supreme Being is all*-love.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. You want to love somebody, and Kṛṣṇa wants to love you. This is loving exchange. But instead of loving Kṛṣṇa, you are trying to love something else. That is your trouble. The love is there in you and Kṛṣṇa, and when the love will be exchanged between you and Kṛṣṇa, that will be perfection of life.



Guest (1): Thank you.



Guest (2) (Indian woman): Would it matter if I worship any other? Would it matter whether I worship Kṛṣṇa or Śiva or Christ or Buddha? Would it matter? As long as... [break]



Prabhupāda: If you worship Śiva, you'll get Śiva. If you worship Kṛṣṇa, you'll get Kṛṣṇa. Why do you expect Kṛṣṇa by worshiping Śiva? What is your idea?



Guest (2): My idea is, would it matter, I mean, if instead of...



Prabhupāda: Suppose if you purchase ticket for India, you'll go to India. How you can go to hell?



Guest (2): That is not the point.



*Prabhupāda: This is the point. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25].



Guest (2): But my point is...



*Prabhupāda: Your point you understand. Why you don't understand? This is the description of the Bhagavad*-gītā. If you worship demigods like Śiva and others, you will go there. And if you worship Kṛṣṇa, you'll go to Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty to understand?



Guest (2): Do you mean that Śiva is demigod?



Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?



Guest (2): Because according to the philosophy...



Prabhupāda: What is that philosophy?



Guest (2): Kṛṣṇa says that it doesn't matter the way you worship Him. All means has the same goal, reaches to the same goal. "You can take the different paths, but you will come to Me eventually." Then why you are saying that Śiva is...



*Prabhupāda: Well, same goal, you just try to understand. Same goal. Suppose you have to go to the forty*-second or hundredth story. Now, you are stepping one after another. The goal is there, the forty-second story, but you cannot claim, after going a few steps, you say that "I have come to the forty-second story." The path is one. That's all right. But you have to reach the ultimate goal. You do not know what is the ultimate goal. You simply say all paths reach to this goal, but you do not know what is goal.



Guest (2): Because what I meant... I would like to know... Suppose... This is the point that we want to recommend. We are like drones(?), and we could go to Gokula in any way, in any other way.



*Prabhupāda: No. That is not explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, and that is your wrong interpretation. Any way, no. The same way you have to go. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ: "Everyone is trying to come to Me," but someone has come a few steps, another has come to another few steps, another step. Ultimately... That was... I explained it. You have to reach that Vāsudeva. That comes to the..., or that is possible after many, many births. It is clearly said, "After many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], "one comes to this point." Another verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Anya-devatāḥ. Those who are bewildered by lust, material lust, they go to worship other demigods. So these things are there. How can you deny it?



Guest (2): I'm sorry, I couldn't agree with you that Śiva is a demigod. I couldn't believe it.



Prabhupāda: That is stated in everywhere. You have to learn it.



Guest (3) (Indian man): ...consciousness, then what is that other Kṛṣṇa? Or, other than Kṛṣṇa, what ... And wherefrom...?



Prabhupāda: Yes. I quite follow you. Everywhere is sunshine, but still, the sun's situation is a particular place. The sunshine is everywhere, but still, the sun planet is situated at a particular localized place.



Guest (3): It is manifested locally. It is not localized. It is manifested locally.



Prabhupāda: But do you distinguish between sunshine and the sun planet? Or you say because the sunshine has come within your room, therefore sun planet has come within your room? Do you think like that?



Guest (3): It is a conception of the mind.



*Prabhupāda: Why mind? It is a fact. Why do you say "mind"? Can you say that "Oh, because the sunshine has come within my room, the sun planet has come"? Everyone will say you are a fool. It is not mind. It is a fact. The sunshine is light, and the sun globe is light. So light is there, both, but still, there is difference between sunshine and the sun globe. That difference. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy everywhere. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



"Although everything is resting on Me, still I am not there."



Guest (4) (Indian man): Is this world a real place? Is this world a real place?



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by real?



Guest (4): According to what you were saying, it's illusion.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Illusion in this way, that when you take it as a fact, but it is something else. It is not a fact. Māyā. Myā means mā*-yā: "It is not this." Just like you are thinking that you'll be happy in this material world by adjustment, but you'll never be happy. That is called māyā. So whatever you are struggling for, that is illusion.



Guest (4): If this is an illusion, then why is it here? What's it doing here?



*Prabhupāda: Illusion is temporary existence. This is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It comes into existence, just like cloud. Of course, we Vaiṣṇava philosopher, we do not say actually illusion. We say temporary. Actually we say temporary. Anitya. Anitya. The exact word is anitya. Anitya means... Nitya means eternal, and anitya means temporary. So we say this material world... (end)





690916LE.LON

Lecture

-

London, September 16, 1969



*Prabhupāda: They are working so hard, just like animals, simply for sense gratification. That is the beginning of His speech. But the human form of life is meant for saving time for spiritual cultivation. We should be satisfied with the bare necessities of life, and the time should be saved to cultivate self*-realization. That is the basic principle of Vedic civilization. Therefore in Vedic civilization a certain period is devoted for accepting renounced order of life, sannyāsa. Compulsory. This sannyāsa order, as we have accepted, it is compulsory regulative principle of Vedic way of life. The first twenty-five years brahmacārī, strict life of celibacy, student life, without any sex indulgence completely, up to twenty-five years. Then gṛhastha. That is not for also all. If somebody is unable to remain a brahmacārī all through, then the spiritual master gives him permission to marry a suitable girl and become a householder. This is called gṛhastha life. Then, up to fifty years, he can indulge in householder life. Householder life, according to Vedic civilization, is a sort of license for sense gratification. But not for all the time. The injunction is pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Just after your fiftieth year you must give up, retire from householder. That is called vānaprastha. Vānaprastha means you can take your wife with you and travel all over the world in places of holy pilgrimage just to give up your attachment for family life. In this way, when one is completely detached from family affection, then he sends back his wife to the elderly children to take care of her and he takes sannyāsa, renounced order of life. This renounced order of life means dedicate completely for the service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated,



*anāśritaḥ karma*-phalaṁ

kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ

sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca

na niragnir na cākriyaḥ

[Bg. 6.1]



Lord Kṛṣṇa said that one who acts for the sake of duty, not for enjoying the fruit, when it is possible... Now, if you are family man you have to work for maintaining your family; therefore you have to enjoy the fruits of your work. So this is possible only for a person who had completely dedicated for service of the Lord.



*So Ṛṣabhadeva recommends that human form of life is specifically meant for austerity, regulative principles, not to do anything according to whims. Very regulative life, that is human life. We require, so long we have got this body, we require four things for maintenance of the body: āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. We require to eat something, every one of us. We require to sleep; therefore we must have an apartment or sleeping place. That may be very nice or... But we must have some place to sleep, shelter. So eating, sleeping. Then some protection, defense, and sense gratification. We have got our senses; they want some satisfaction. So these are, these principles are bodily needs. These are not the needs of the spirit soul. So long we have got this body, we have to satisfy it, but not, I mean to say, unrestricted. That is not human life. That is the difference between human life and animal life. But at the present moment human life has become more than animal life. The animals have restricted periods of sense gratification, but the human life has no restricted... So Ṛṣabhadeva is instructing, "This should not be done." If you want to purify your existence, then you have to live under restriction. Just like a patient, a diseased fellow. If he wants to be cured, he must live restricted life under the direction of the physician; *otherwise, he is sure to die, or he is sure to suffer, prolonging the disease. He must. So Ṛṣabhadeva advised His sons, "My dear boys, if you want to purify your existence, then you have to live a restricted life." Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvaṁ yasmād brahma*-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1].

*And what is the benefit of purifying my existence? That is also stated, that if you purify your existence, then you'll be situated on the Brahman platform. You'll understand that you are Brahman, you are spirit soul, you are not this body. Just like the animals, they cannot understand what he is. He identifies himself with this body. But a human being should not identify himself with this body. That is ignorance. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. If anyone identifies himself with this body, then he is said, according to the Vedic version, he's an ass. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. Khara means ass, animal. Animal, he does not know what he is. The human form of life, there should be inquiry, "What I am? Am I this body?" This is called meditation. Think over, "Whether I am this body or I am something else?" The whole self-realization process depends on this question, "What I am?" But that understanding cannot be achieved unless you purify your existence. Therefore you accept any process of self-realization... There are in the beginning the karma process, fruitive activities, offering sacrifices, performing great sacrifices. And then, out of many thousands of such karmīs, one jñānī, a person, wise man, who understands that "I am not this body. My interest is something... I am spirit soul," he is called jñānī, or wise man. Then, out of many thousands of jñānīs, one becomes mukta. Simply to understand that "I am not this body; *I am Brahman," this is not sufficient. You must be situated in actual platform of Brahman. That is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*After self*-realization, there are activities. What are those activities? Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. That is devotional service.



*So devotional service begins from the stage of liberation, when one is freed from the concept of bodily life, from this wrong concept that "I am this body." That is the beginning of Bhagavad*-gītā. Teachings of Bhagavad-gītā begins from that. Kṛṣṇa wanted to teach Arjuna in the beginning, first of all, that "You are not this body." He was talking with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was asking him to fight, and he was placing so many pleas that "If I fight, my family will die and the women will be widows. They will be polluted." So many arguments he placed. That means Arjuna was identifying himself with this body. And Kṛṣṇa, when Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa that "I am now puzzled, bewildered. I cannot understand what is my duty at the present moment; *therefore I am submitting unto You," śiṣyas te 'ham: [Bg. 2.7] "I become Your disciple." Śādhi māṁ prapannam: "I am surrendered unto You. You please instruct me." So because they were talking like friends in the beginning, so argument like friends, talking, that cannot give any conclusion. Here is the Vedic process. Just like Arjuna said that śādhi māṁ prapannam, śiṣyas te 'ham: "I become your śiṣya." Śiṣya means disciple. That means "Whatever disciplinary action You will ask me to follow, I shall do it." This is called śiṣya. The word śiṣya comes from the word, Sanskrit word, sas*-dhātu, means to rule over, sas-dhātu. So ruling by instruction, ruling by laws, and ruling by force, weapon. There are three kinds of ruling. If instruction fails, then evidences from lawbooks. And when that also fails, then force. That is the whole arrangement everywhere. The instruction is that you should not kill. But if you violate, then according to law you are arrested. If you still violate, then you are punished in so many ways by force. As this is going on in our ordinary life, the same thing is going on by God's will also. The kingdom of God... Here is also kingdom of God, and there is another, spiritual sky. That is also kingdom of God.

So here all living entities, we are condemned. We are under force. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. We have disobeyed the laws of God; therefore we have been put into this material world to abide by the laws of God by force, by force. You have to. Nobody wants to die, but you have to die. You cannot avoid it. Nobody wants to be diseased. Oh, you have to become diseased. Nobody wants to be old. Oh, you have to become old. Force! This is going on. But the fools' paradise, we are thinking, "We are happy. We are making progress." What progress you have made? Have you surpassed the laws of birth, death, old age and disease? "No, sir." Then what progress you have made? So this is their progress. But if you want really relief from these four principles of material way of life, then you have to purify your existence. You purify yourself; *then you will be allowed to enter into the purified spiritual sky, and you'll get a place in one of the planets there. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. These things are explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā.

na tad bhāsayate sūryo

na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

[Bg. 15.6]



The hint is given there that in the sky of freedom, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sunshine. That is the distinction. Try to understand. This is also confirmed in the Upaniṣads. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonshine, there is no need of electricity, because everything is shining there, all Brahman effulgence. And as we have got one huge planet here, the sun planet, which is efful..., effulgent, dazzling, bright, in the spiritual sky all the planets are like that. So therefore, there is no question of darkness. Darkness is here. So you try to understand that there is a spiritual sky. That is not like this sky where we experience darkness. Now we are experiencing at night... Night means we are experiencing darkness; *therefore we require this electricity or moonlight or sunlight. But the Vedas say, tamasi mā: "Don't remain in this darkness." Jyotir gamaḥ: "Go, just try to reach that system, that planetary system, where everything is dazzling, bright." That is the human form of life. That is required, how to enter into that spiritual kingdom or spiritual sky. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



*So here also, Ṛṣabhadeva says that live restricted life, tapa. And tapa, restricted austerity, why? What for? Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Divyam means for getting transcendental blissful life. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. And you are hankering after happiness. This happiness can be had only when your existential form, you have become purified. Your existence becomes purified. Brahma*-saukhyam anantam. Then... Brahman means the greatest, unlimited; sukham, happiness; *ananta, unlimited. You are enjoying so*-called happiness, or real happiness, but for moment. That is not ananta, unlimited. Not unlimited. But there is unlimited happiness. You should know it. There is unlimited happiness. Therefore Vedic literature says, ramante yoginaḥ anante [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. The yogis, they are also after happiness for satisfaction. Not only the materialists, but the yogis, the bhaktas, the jñānīs, they are also for happiness, brahma-saukhyam. But they want unlimited, unrestricted happiness, not this flickering happiness. That is their aim. Rāmante yoginaḥ anante. Those who are yogis, bhakta-yogī, jñāna-yogī or haṭha-yogī, everyone is trying to reach that platform. So why? For unlimited happiness. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande. And that is real happiness. Happiness means unlimited, unrestricted happiness, without any condition. That is real happiness. If there is restriction, if there is condition... Just like here, if I go to a restaurant, the condition is you first of all pay, then you enjoy something. So similarly, if I have to enjoy a nice apartment, a nice house, first of all pay so many dollars, so many pounds, and then enjoy. There is condition. But in the brahma-saukhyam, there is no such condition. If you simply, if you can approach that platform, then... That is the meaning, rāma. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahma ity abhidhīyate. Rāma. Rāma means rāman. Rāma. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Rāma. If you associate with Him, Rāma or Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa... Nārāyaṇa parā avyaktāt. He is transcendental. So some way or other, if you make association with Him, if you are elevated to that position, then you get ananta, unlimited happiness. That is required.

*Because we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. The Lord is eternal, blissful, and full of knowledge. Similarly, we are also part and parcel; we are also eternal, blissful, and full of knowledge. But because we are part and parcel, very small particle, therefore sometimes our knowledge becomes disturbed. Just like little boy and elderly man. The elderly man hardly commits mistake, but little boy commits so many mistakes because he has got little knowledge. So because we, the living entities... We have got knowledge, but because our knowledge is limited, therefore sometimes our knowledge is covered by māyā. But the knowledge of the Supreme is never covered by māyā. Just like the cloud. Cloud covers the sky. If an insignificant portion of the sky is covered by cloud, the cloud cannot cover the whole sky. You'll never hear that "A cloud is on London; therefore the cloud is all over the world." No. Similarly, the knowledge is covered of the small particle Brahman, not of the Supreme Brahman. There are many instances. So some way or other, our knowledge is now covered in this material existence, so we have to get out of this ignorance. For that purpose we require tapasya, tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some inconveniences. Voluntarily... Just like a man is very happy in his family life... He has good house, good wife, good children, and good bank balance, enjoying life, but śāstra says, "No. You are fifty years old; you must get out." So he has to get out. He cannot say that "I am so happy in my family life. My wife is so nice. My children are so obedient. I have got nice money, income. Why shall I go out?" But śāstra says, "No. Vanaṁ vrajet." Vrajet means must. You must go to the forest. But if you disobey, then you will be in trouble. Just like you disobey the laws, you will be in trouble. So this is called tapasya. I do not like to go out of my home, very comfortable home, happy home, but śāstra says, "You must." So I have to accept inconveniences. If I leave my home, comfortable home, I do not know where to live, how to eat, where to stay. These are experienced. When we took sannyāsa, in the beginning, we thought like that, but by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, we are not uncomfortable. We have got... We left only three or four children; *now we have got hundreds of children, without any botheration of wife. (laughter) And they are so obedient and so beautiful, so nice, that I could not expect even the children which I begot at home. So by Kṛṣṇa's grace, by God's grace, everything is there, provided you depend on Him. There is no fear. Nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. If you want to become dependent on God, you'll never be afraid-svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ-either you are put into the heaven or hell or anywhere.

So this is tapasya. If you perform tapasya for transcendental understanding, then the result will be that your next life you will be promoted to the spiritual sky. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. After leaving this body, one does not come again to this material existence, miserable existence. But unfortunately, we do not accept that we are living in miserable condition. That is called māyā; that is called ignorance. We are actually in a miserable condition. We are trying to adjust things. But that cannot be adjusted. We have to suffer. The only way is that you realize yourself, what you are, and act accordingly. So your position is you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. You just practice how to serve Kṛṣṇa; *then your life will be successful. So that is our movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is training people how to become unalloyed servant of Kṛṣṇa. Śuddha*-bhakta, unalloyed, without any adulteration. What is that adulteration?

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



No other desire. Not that "By worshiping Kṛṣṇa or acting devotional service I shall get this opportunity, this facility," material or spiritual. A real devotee, he does not aspire even for liberation. He doesn't want. He simply wants, "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, wherever I may be, it doesn't matter. Please keep me always engaged in Your consciousness." That's all. A devotee never aspires that he'll be elevated to the spiritual sky or Vaikuṇṭha or... Never mind. "For thousands and thousands of births I may rot into the hell, but simply I want my Lord, that wherever I may be situated, I may not forget You." Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. Lord Caitanya teaches this. Janmani janmani. Where there is janmani janmani, that means that is not liberation. As soon as you're liberated, you are not supposed to take birth again. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, janmani janmani. He doesn't aspire about liberation. "Birth after birth, please keep Me engaged in Your devotional service." That is pure devotion. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā [Cc. Madhya 19.167].



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for purifying the existence of the living entity and engage him constantly in the service of the Lord, and thus he achieves all success of life. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*"Anyone who is engaged in unalloyed devotional service of Me, he is already transcendental to all the three modes of material nature." Sa guṇan samatītya etān. All these. There are three modes of material nature, sattva*-raja-tamaḥ. So a devotee surpasses very easily. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padam. Bhavāmbudhiḥ, the great ocean of nescience, becomes just like the water pit made by the hoof of a calf. You see. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58]. For the devotee, this place is not for them. This... Which place? This material world. What is that material world? Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. In every step there is danger. Every step. But they are meant for the paraṁ padam. Paraṁ padam, the supreme post, or the supreme abode. That is also confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann asti eko mahān guṇaḥ. In this age of Kali it is a great ocean of faults. But still, there is one sublime gain. What is that? Now, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya [SB 12.3.51]. Simply by kṛṣṇa-kīrtana, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ, he becomes liberated. And paraṁ vrajet, and he goes to the supreme kingdom. Simply. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam: "All glories to the śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana." So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Haribol.



Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)





690926LE.LON

Lecture

-

London, September 26, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Ladies and gentlemen, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just the appropriate movement for self-realization in this age. Self... When we speak of self, there are two kinds of self according to Vedic literatures. The exact word in Sanskrit, the self-ātmā. And there is another word-Paramātmā. Ātmā and Paramātmā. There is some other words also-mahātmā, durātmā. Mahātmā means one who has expanded his soul up to the Supersoul, Paramātmā. He's called mahātmā. Another word is durātmā, when one is far, far away from the Supersoul. Dur, dur means distant. Bahut dur. Bahut dur pare hai (?), they say. In Hindi also, they say dur. Dur means distant. So Paramātmā and ātmā, or God and Godhead, the Supreme Godhead or Supreme God. So we cannot place everyone on the same level. That is nonsense. As in this world we see that you are richer than me, and somebody is richer than you, and somebody is richer than somebody else... You go on finding out who is the richest, then you'll come to God. You cannot find anyone in this material world as the richest of all. No. Somebody will come who is richer than him, and somebody will come out who is, I mean to say, poorer than him. Any position you stand, you'll find somebody greater and somebody lesser. Even in the lowest stage of life also, you'll find somebody is lesser. In any capacity, either in richness or in knowledge or in beauty or in strength*-in so many things we have got. So everyone cannot be placed on the same level, not only materially, but also spiritually. If you say that "This higher status, lower status, are calculated in the material world; in the spiritual world there is no such distinction," that is partially true. In the spiritual world there is no such distinction, but that spiritual distinction is not exactly like material distinction. That distinction is of consciousness, varieties of consciousness. That distinction.



*So in the higher status of life, when this distinction is not recognized or cannot be understood, that is called impersonal status, Brahman. Nirviśeṣa*-brahman-Brahman realization without any distinction. This realization of Brahman, impersonal realization, is the beginning of self-realization. That is not final or ultimate. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is a statement about the Absolute Truth. What is the Absolute Truth? That it is stated, Absolute... Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam [SB 1.2.11]. "Those who are actually in knowledge of the Absolute Truth, they speak of the Absolute Truth in this way." What is that? Advaya-jñānam: nondual. There is no duality. Although there is variety, but there is no duality. Here in the material world, as soon as there is variety, there is duality. But in the spiritual world, there is variety, but there is no duality. How is that? There is crude example. Many, you can try to understand. Just like this sun. You are seeing every day, sun. Now the sun means there are three divisions: the sunlight, sunshine; the sun globe; *and the sun deity. Don't think in the sun planet there is no living entities. That is a wrong conception. As in this planet there are living entities, similarly, in the sun planet also, there are living entities, but their bodies are differently constructed. Just like your body is differently constructed. You cannot remain in the water. But the fishes, the aquatics, they can remain in the water. It is the question of construction of the body. But you cannot say that "Because I cannot live in the water, therefore nobody can live in the water." That is nonsense. This is nonsense. So they, our scientists are so*-called nonsense only. They say, "No, there cannot be any existence of living entity in the moon pla..., moon planet or sun planet." They say like that. But our Vedic literature does not say like that. Living entities... It is said, sarva-gaḥ. They can go anywhere, and they can live anywhere. Sarva-gaḥ. Sarva means all; gaḥ means going. You can go. Just like here in London city, you are sitting here, you can go any other part, similarly, you can go any other part of the universe or any other part of God's creation. There is material world, spiritual world... You can go everywhere. But you must be capable of going there. Just like we Indians. There are many Indians... Or there are many Englishmen also, some of them want to go to India. Some of the Indians, from India they want to come to London. They think London is very wonderful city. And some Englishmen also think, "Oh, India is very wonderful land." So we are thinking that moon land or sun land or so many other planets, Venus...

*So this sun example we have to understand, that to understand the sun there are three divisions. The first division is the sunlight or sunshine. The sunshine is all*-pervading over the universe. It is not imagination. We get from Vedic information. It is said, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. This is brahmajyoti. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. Savitā, the sun-god, is called yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. So the sun is described as the eye of the Supreme Lord. Just like we have got our eyes; *we can see to some extent, three feet, four feet, or ten feet, or hundred feet. But the eyes of God is so powerful, He can see the whole universe. Yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Savitā means the sun. The sun is... So we have to study in this way. People say, "Can you show me God?" Yes, why not? You just try to see God. Here you see the eyes of the God: the sun, the moon. Why don't you see it? Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Just try to understand the one eye of God, then another eye, then try to understand other senses. But you cannot understand even one eye. What you will understand of God? In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: [Bg. 7.8] "The taste in the water I am." Just try to understand. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the shining in the sun and the moon. I am the sound in the sky." So this light, sound, these are scientific studies. Kṛṣṇa says, Bhagavān says, that "I am the sound in the sky." So if you can practically study sound, light, nicely, scientifically, then you'll see Kṛṣṇa also. That is required. Education means to find out the ultimate goal, Absolute Truth. In whatever field of education you may be, that doesn't matter. But try to find out the ultimate. Because in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, "What is Absolute Truth?" The first question in the Vedānta-sūtra is athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Now, this is the time." This means the human form of life is the opportunity to understand the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is neither discussed nor understood by the animal society. It is not possible. There is no arrangement in the animal society to understand God or the Absolute Truth. Because they're animals, it is not possible. It is possible in the human society. This association, this room, is an attempt to understand the Absolute Truth, because it belongs to the human society. But if you go to the animal society, they haven't got such room, such arrangement. So that is the distinction between animal and human being. Human being, in any part of the world, it doesn't matter, even uncivilized, there is an inquisitiveness to search out what is the Absolute Truth.

*So this Absolute Truth is in three varieties, understood. Absolute Truth is one. Just like the same example: the sun is one, but the study of the sun are in three phases. First of all, you have to study the sunlight. The heat, the illumination, the molecules, the illuminating particles... There are so many things you can study in the sunshine. Those who are scientists, who are physicists, they can study the sunshine. But this sunshine study is not final study about sun. Then the next question is, "What is the sun globe?" If you have got power, if you have got capacity to manufacture some machine... Just like you are trying to go to the moon planet. Similarly, if you can have some capacity to enter into the sun planet, then you study what is the sun planet. And then again, further if you study, then what are the living entities in the sun planet? And when you study the living entities in the sun planet, who is the head? Who is the chief of the living entities in the sun planet? Just like we are foreigners. We have come here. We inquire, "Who is the chief of your country?" Oh, you'll get answer, "The queen," or "The prime minister." Similarly, in every planet there is a chief predominating personality, in every planet. Not only in this planet, but in every planet. They are called devatā in higher planets. These things are described in the Bhagavad... Yānti deva*-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. If you want to go to the moon planet, you can go. There are rules and regulation, mean, how you can prepare yourself. Not like that you go there with some masked dress and capture some sand and come out of the... Not like that. Actually, you go there and live there and enjoy life there. That is possible. Otherwise Bhagavad-gītā would not have said, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. Devān. Devān, this is plural number. There are many higher planetary systems where the demigods live, devān. They are extraordinarily intelligent. Their standard of living is far, far sublime, better than this planet. Therefore they are called demigods, almost God. God is the supreme, but they're almost like God. They're beautiful. It is said in the Vedic literature the more you go to the higher planet, your opulence, your standard of living is thousand, thousand times better than this planet. So these arrangements are there.

*Now, amongst all these planets, the sun planet is the chief. How the sun planet is chief? Practically we can see. Everyone, we can see that there are so many glittering planets, illuminating planets, at night, millions and millions, but still, there is darkness. There is darkness at night. In spite of presentation of the moon and millions of other stars, still, you require light. But in the daytime, simply one planet, sunlight, oh, everything is dazzling light. Therefore it is called yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Savitā means this sun planet is the eye of God. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā. Rājā means king. Sakala-grahāṇām, all other planets, it is the king. And actually, scientifically, it is true that due to the heat of the sun planet all other planets are rotating; *otherwise they'll fall down. But they're floating in the air, in the sky, due to this sunlight. Anyone who knows science, he'll admit, "Yes, that's a fact." And sun is the source of all energy in this material world. All this vegetation, all living condition, minerals-there are so many things*-this is due to the sun. So sun in the king of all planets, as it is stated in the Vedic literatures. That's a fact. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ means unlimited tejāḥ. Tejāḥ means temperature. Unlimited temperature. The sun temperature, you see... Of course, you have no experience here. In India we have got experience. During summer season, when there is scorching heat, it is unbearable. You see? But the sun is ninety million miles or something like that away. Still, the temperature is so high. You see. And it is the estimation that so many millions of miles, if we go nearer to the sun, immediately we shall be burned into ashes, the temperature is so high. Therefore it is said, aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ. So in this way, if you simply study this sun... There are three phases: the sunlight, or sunshine; the sun globe; and then the living entities who are in the sun planet. There are living entities. Because it is impossible to go... You cannot go even near the sunlight, sunshi..., globe. You cannot go even to the moon planet.

*So our material knowledge, material science, our material endeavor is very, very insignificant to understand the Absolute Truth. It is almost impossible. You cannot understand even a planet, and what to speak of the Supreme. Therefore in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said that vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam [SB 1.2.11]. Those who are in knowledge of the Absolute Truth, they say that the Absolute Truth is realized in three phases. But they're nondual. How nondual? Just like even if you study the sunshine, it is not different from the sun, because the same quality is there. The temperature and the illumination, two main qualities, in the sunshine you'll find. And in the same way, if you study the sun globe, you'll find the same quality: light, illumination, and temperature. And if you go further, if you study the living entity, you'll find the same thing: temperature and light. But there is difference still, varieties. You cannot say... When the sunlight enters within your room through the window, you cannot say, "I have got the sun now. Sun is within my room." That is nonsense. No. Sun is far, far away, but his energy has entered your room. So much you can say, but if you think that because the sunlight is within the room... Sunlight within your room? Sunlight, if it comes a few millions miles nearer this planet, it will be finished. What about your room? The temperature is so high.

*Therefore the Absolute Truth are realized in three phases: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. Śabdyate means we receive from the Vedic literatures. Śabda*-brahma, śabdyate. By sound vibration, by transcendental sound transmission, we understand that the Absolute Truth is realized in three phases. What is that? Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. So what is the difference between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān? That difference is just like the same. If you study, if you become satisfied, "Now I am in the light, sunshine; *finished my business," that is Brahman realization. But that is not final. By Brahman realization, you are in the light, that's a fact. You are in illumination, you are in temperature, that's a fact. But if you are satisfied with such temperature and light, then you remain there. And if you are fortunate enough to make further progress, that is Paramātmā*-to realize the Supersoul in everyone's heart: in your heart, in my heart, everywhere, all-pervading. Sunshine is also all-pervading. Brahman is also all-pervading. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Similarly, Paramātmā, the Supersoul, is also all-pervading. Meditation means to realize the Supersoul, and to realize that Supersoul is everywhere. How everywhere? Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. The Supersoul is within the aṇḍa. Aṇḍa means brahmāṇḍa, universe, and everybody up to the atom. He's within the atom also. Paramāṇu. Paramāṇu means atom. The Supersoul is within the atom. That is the power of God. He can become bigger than the universe. He can put many millions of universes within His belly. At the same time, He can enter within the atom. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Mahato mahīyān means greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest. So in this way, first realization, Brahman, impersonal. Then next higher realization is Paramātmā, Supersoul. Brahman realization more or less realized by philosophical speculation, and Paramātmā realization is achieved more or less by meditation. But Bhagavān realization is transcendental devotion. That is beyond the philosophical speculation and mental meditation, beyond.

So these are gradual processes, but... Just like if you actually serious about studying the sun subject matter, then you have to study the sunlight, then sun globe, then enter into sun planet and try to understand; *similarly, if you want to understand the Absolute Truth, you have to make progress in that way: Brahman realization, Paramātmā realization, then personal, Bhagavān realization. The crude example: as in the sun there is a supreme person, Sūrya-nārāyaṇa, or the predominating deity in the sun globe, and then the sun globe is there, and then the sunlight is there, similarly, Absolute Truth means the, in the beginning, the Supreme Personality of Godhead-person*-and then His plenary expansion. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Plenary expansion. That person is not like us. Just like I am sitting here, but I am not in my apartment. God is not like that, person. He... He's in His apartment; *at the same time, He is everywhere, in everyone's heart, and within the atom also. But we do not wish to accept God as person because we are thinking God must be a person like me. No. That is our less intelligence. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvaraḥ, the Supreme Lord, is residing in everyone's heart. Sarva-kṣetreṣu. Ksetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. In Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, kṣetra-kṣetrajña: the self and this body. And Bhagavad-gītā is stating what is this body and what is the self. So in that connection the Lord says that "You, the individual soul, he's the proprietor of this body." Or not exactly proprietor, but leaseholder. You cannot say you are proprietor, because as soon as you'll be asked, "Vacate," oh, you have to vacate. But you can say "leaseholder." Actually, it is leaseholder. We are, we are holding this body on certain lease term, for so many years. As soon as the lease period is over, "Vacate, please vacate." "Oh, I have got so much attraction for this body. How can I vacate?" Oh, there is no argument. "Please get out, immediately." "Oh, I am President of USA." "Oh, never mind. Immediately." (laughter) Yes, immediately. So don't you see? So what is use of becoming President? If I am so much under the laws of nature, under the order of Supreme, that immediately, I am going in procession very nice, and then, oh, there is shot and finished everything...

*Therefore those who are sensible, they do not aspire for all these temporary things. Temporary bodily acquisitions, good birth, good opulence, good beauty, and good knowledge*-these are bodily acquisitions. (affections?) Everyone is very much proud if he's born in a nice family or nice nation. Oh, he's very proud, "I am Englishman," or "American," "I am this," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this, first class." Why? Good birth. Then, if one is very rich, oh, he's very proud. Then, if one is very much learned, he is very proud. And if one is very beautiful, he's also very proud. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhiḥ [SB 1.8.26]. These are our objects of being proud. But this can be finished within a second, because it is due to this body. So actually, those who are in the bodily concept of life, they're in lower grade of human civilization. Just like animals. They are considered as animals. Just like the animals, they are fully absorbed in the thought that "I am this body," similarly, if a man is absorbed in such thought, that "I am this body," then he is equal to animal. That's all. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. And with bodily relation we make our identification. "Because my body is born in this land, England, therefore I am Englishman. Therefore all Englishmen are my countrymen." Or my family: "Because I have got this bodily relationship, they are my kinsmen, they are my sons, they are my wife, they are my father, they are my mother, they are my societymen." In this way, all our conception of life is on the bodily concept of life. But we are not body; *we are ātmā. This is self*-realization. This is self-realization. Self-realization does not mean that for a few minutes I think that "I am not this body. I am something extra." But what is that extra? That should be clearly understood, that "I am spirit soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "I am Brahman." Then? Is that finish? Simply by understanding that I am Brahman? No. That is not finish. You have many other steps to go forward.

*So simply by Brahman realization, you cannot stay on the platform of understanding that "I am not this body." You'll fall down again. You'll fall down again and accept this body, "Yes, I am this body." Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. After much meditation or hard work, you realize that you are Brahman. But if you do not go further*-Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān-then you'll fall down again. Again fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. Just like, take a crude example. You have got very nice sputnik, and at that time you have said that "I have reached moon light, moon planet." But if there is no place to live, you come down again here. What you'll do? You must have some shelter. They must advertise... Just like when I was in San Francisco, so many reporters asked my opinion: "Swamijī, what is your opinion that they have gone to the moon planet?" I told, "It is simply waste of time." Oh, what is the use of going there and catch some sands and come back? You live there, utilize; *otherwise, what is the value? What is the use of spending so much money? Similarly, if you simply realize that "I am Brahman," you cannot utilize the opportunity, then what is the use of realization? You'll surely fall down. Just like the man has come down again. He may advertise, "Oh, I went to moon planet." That's all right, but what you have gained? You are liv... You are here, like me, with me. What is your extra qualification? You are now living with me. Why did you... Rather, I did not take so much trouble. You have taken so much trouble, and you have come back again. So what is the use of such realization if you cannot utilize it? So Brahman realization is not sufficient, that "I am not this body," ahaṁ brahma. No. That is clearly stated in Bhagavad*-gītā. Brahman realization is not rejected, but if you do not go further, do not make further progress, then it is useless waste of time. Exactly like that: if you cannot go further, make arrangements how to live... You go with great speed in the space, but if you cannot stay in any other planet, then you come back again here. That's a fact. Similarly, you go, you realize Brahman-that's very nice-but if you cannot stay in the Brahman realization and again come to this bodily realization, bodily platform, then what is the use? Why you have taken so much trouble? Just after meditation, if you come again and you take to these, all these nonsense habits again, then what is the use? You must stay. That should be our...

*Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. If actually one has realized Brahman, then he should be free from all anxieties. Prasannātmā. Prasanna means joyful. Because all our anxieties are due to this identification of this body-"I am Englishman," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." Therefore I am..., we are always anxious, anxiety. Even the cats and dogs, they are also anxious for their body, protection. As in nationwise, everyone is anxious, "Oh, let them... Russians, they may not come." The Russians thinking, "Here... Yes. They may not come." Oh, should be... Oh, wars and peace.(?) All anxiety! Advancement, so-called nonsense advancement is increasing anxiety. That's all. But brahma-bhutaḥ means no anxiety. That is the first stage. That is the first stage, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. And what is that? How? What is that quality of prasannātmā? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. There is no hankering and there is no lamentation. So long we have got this bodily identification, we have got sense gratification. What we haven't got for sense gratification, we hanker after it. And if we lose something, then also we lament. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na.... But a brahma-bhūtaḥ person, he has no hankering, no lamenting. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then he sees equally everyone. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Not that "He is animal. He should be sent to the slaughterhouse for our eating purpose, and the animal may suffer and we may enjoy." This is not Brahman realization. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal: "Oh, if somebody pinches me, I suffer." Lord Buddha preached this Brahman realization, that if you suffer by others' pinching, why should you pinch others? Nonviolence.

*So everyone stops to different stages of Brahman realization, but the ultimate goal, as we get from Vedic literature, is mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. When one is perfect in Brahman realization, he's engaged in devotional service, bhakti. After being liberated from material concept of life, when one is actually in the Brahman state of transcendental life, he can begin this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate... Why? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Because without going to that stage, you cannot understand God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. It is not said that by meditation, by philosophical speculation, one can understand God. No. Bhaktyā. So they cannot understand anything, these meditators and speculators. No, they can, partially. But bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. "As I am, Absolute Truth, that can be understood through this devotional service." And this devotional service is attained after attainment of this brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. So the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage is not final. We should not be satisfied either living in the brahma-bhūtaḥ platform or Paramātmā realization platform. We must make farther progress and go to the platform of Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage ourselves in His loving transcendental service. Then our life will be successful. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Guest: How it is possible... How we can (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. Can you not do this? Even a child can do it. What we are appealing? "Please come chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance." What did these boys? One year before they did not know anything. So they, along with their wives and children, they are now dancing and chanting. That's all. Is it very difficult process, to come and chant and dance? The easiest process in the world! Without any education, without any knowledge. Simply come, chant and dance. If... There is a realized practical example, these boys and girls. They began with this chanting and dancing. Now see their faith, their advancement, their knowledge, their temperament, their attitude. So much advanced. You cannot compare with any other group in this world. So easier. So take to this movement; your life will be sublime. Easiest process. There is no charge. There is no fee. We don't charge anything. We don't say that "I give you some secret mantra. You give me some dollars." No. It is open: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." (end)





680507LE.BOS

Lecture: "Nobody Wants to Die"

-

Boston, May 7, 1968



*Prabhupāda: So actually everyone is trying to live. Nobody wants to die. Why this psychological desire is there? I want to live. That, that means that he is eternal. Therefore he wants to live. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. That soul existing within this body, or "I," I am eternal. So we... I am struggling now with this body. This body's temporary. I am changing different bodies. Just like in my this present life also I have changed so many bodies. So there is no difficulty to understand this philosophy that "I am changing bodies every moment. But I am the same, eternal. Similarly, after changing this body, I shall have another body." That is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*"As the living spark, the soul, is changing from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age..." This is a fact. Everyone knows. Similarly, to change to another body is a fact. And dhīras tatra na muhyati: "Any intelligent man is not surprised." He doesn't say that there is no life after death. There is. Now that life after death may be in one of the so many, 8,400,000's of bodies. There is no guarantee what kind of a body you are going to get. In our last meeting we explained that from Bhagavad*-gītā, that yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Ante, at the time of death, as his mental position is there, he gets the, another body, similar. There are many historical references. As I told you the other day, that King Bhārata, he was very much elevated and very great soul. At twenty-four years of age he was emperor of the world, but at the very young time he gave up his wife, children and kingdom and went to the forest for spiritual enlightenment. And he was making progress. Unfortunately, one day he saw that a deer cub was in helpless condition. It's mother came to drink water from the river, and there was a roaring of lion, and she begot the calf and fled away-after all, she's animal. So Bhārata Mahārāja took compassion on the little, just-born calf: "Oh, it will die. Let me take care." So he was taking care. One evening that calf did not come back. So he was anxious where it was gone, and so he went to the forest, and while he was on the up, hill, he slipped from the hill and fell down and died. And at that time, his mind was absorbed in the thought of that calf. So next body, he got a deer. Yes.



*So Bhagavad*-gītā also confirms this. So we have to prepare our mind in such a way that we should always think of Kṛṣṇa. Then that is meditation, real meditation. And practical. There is no use thinking of something void. That you cannot concentrate. That is not practical. You can simply struggle for it and waste your time. But if you have got something tangible to meditate, that is very easy. So why not Kṛṣṇa? So nice, beautiful, and He's accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by great sages, saintly persons, scholars and Vedic literature. And they have achieved success. Why not follow their example and simply concentrate your mind, meditate on mind? And that meditation is very nicely done by chanting. As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, your ear is forced to receive this Kṛṣṇa. And the Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent. This is the philosophy. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa sound... Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, God is everything, so why not this sound, "Kṛṣṇa," which is approved? So by chanting Kṛṣṇa, you receive Kṛṣṇa in transcendental vibration immediately, and your meditation is there because your attention is diverted to Kṛṣṇa. So your attention, your mind and the word, and the authority-everything is there. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take..., feel practically how it is working. There is no charge. There is no exertion. It is very easy. Kartum... Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. This process of meditation is easy, happy and indestructible. There are so many instances from śāstras. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ, abhinnatv an nāma-nāminoḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. There is the spiritual platform, everything identical. Just like you get some thousand miles away in the radio: this sound and the person who is transmitting the sound is identical, although materially we cannot derive the same benefit. That is the difference between material sound and spiritual sound. The spiritual sound, there is no such difference. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. So it is a fact that by sound vibration, Kṛṣṇa, you immediately contact Kṛṣṇa. So if there is any spiritual benefit by contacting Kṛṣṇa or be in touch in Kṛṣṇa... Just like if you be in contact with fire you get warm, similarly, by contact with Kṛṣṇa you immediately get spiritual warmth. That is the technique of this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that is being experienced by the students, those who are sincerely doing it without any offense.

So this is the simplest method, and Lord Caitanya therefore recommended, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. In this, in this age... This age is called Kali. Kali means the age of disagreement. Nobody agrees. Nobody agrees. I don't agree with you; you don't agree with me. I quarrel with you; *you quarrel with me. Everyone thinks that he is independent, he is God or he is everything. But he is dependent in every step. But still, he's proud of becoming God. So these nonsense things are going on. Of course, this is a process of spiritual understanding, ekatvena bahudhā pṛthaktvena bahudhā viśvato*-mukham, that "I am God," whether "I" means this body or "I" means this mind, or there is something "I" else than this body and mind. Therefore meditation required. Accepting that you are God, now find out "I." Now what is that "I"? Is that "I" this body or this, that "I" the mind, or is that "I" the intelligence? So meditation means to find out that "I" who's claiming that "I am God."

*So if you identify yourself with this body, then there is no need of meditation because body, you are actually seeing-this is body. No meditation means that you have to transcend the bodily platform, the mental platform, the intellectual platform. Then you find out what is the "I." That is meditation. But fortunately we get information directly. Instead of searching out what you are, what is your position, what is this "I," you get direct information from Kṛṣṇa. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says that "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So as part and parcel, you may claim as God. How is that? Just like this whole body. Now, the finger, which is the part and parcel of this body, can be said also "body." But the finger is not the whole body. A finger, if it claims that "I am the whole body," then it is wrong conception. But if the finger claims that "I am body," there is no wrong. Finger is... Because it is part and parcel of bo..., this body, whole body, therefore it is also body. Just like part and parcel of gold is also gold*-it is not different from gold-similarly, I, individual I, I am the part and parcel of the Supreme "I," Kṛṣṇa. That is the real philosophy. And as soon as you understand that you are part and parcel of the Supreme, then your function is also immediately fixed up. What is that? Now, this part and parcel of this body is the finger, or anything you take. What is the duty of this finger? The duty of the finger is to serve the whole body. That's all. It has no independent existence. The... A finger, if it noncooperates with this body to work for the body, then it is to be understood that the finger is in diseased condition. Suppose if I have got some pain. I want my finger to work in some part of my body like this, and if it cannot, that means it is in diseased condition. If there is some pain, you are feeling not to work the finger. Similarly, our position, being part and parcel of the Supreme, our function is to serve the Supreme. If we do not serve the Supreme, then it is our diseased condition, which is called māyā. Māyā means which is not actual fact. Mā-yā. Mā means "not"; yā means "this."

*So, so we are thinking at the present moment that "I am God. I am independent." That is māyā. Māyā means which is not actual fact. Plain philosophy. If you are God, then you must know what is God. God is never dependent. That is the definition given in Vedānta*-sūtra: svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means fully independent. That is one of the quality of God. Janmādyasya yataḥ 'nvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means fully independent and fully conscious. So your consciousness is not full. Your independence is not full. That you cannot have. Now you belong to a independent country, but you are not fully independent. As soon as the state laws want you for some particular purpose, in spite of your unwillingness, you have to act. That means you are not fully independent, even in the state relationship. And how you are fully independent in God's relationship? So your claim that "I am God" is not fullfilled there, because God is independent. You are not independent. How you can claim that you are God? Can you answer this question? Because in your school it is taught that "I am God." I say God is fully independent. Are you fully independent? Then how can you claim you are God? Can anyone answer this? Because this philosophy is going on. Everyone is thinking, "I am God." So if you are not fully independent, you are, if you are not fully conscious, everything, you are simply a minute part. Minute part means because you are part and parcel of the Supreme. So everything is there in you in minute parts but not in full.

Just like the definition of God as it is given in the Vedic literature:

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś ca

ṣaḍ iti bhagaṁ ganaḥ

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*Bhaga. The exact Sanskrit word of the Absolute Truth, or the Personality of Godhead, is called Bhagavān. Bhaga means six kinds of opulences. What is that? Aiśvarya, wealth. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya. Vīryasya. Vīryasya means strength. Wealth, strength and yaśaḥ. Yaśaḥ means fame. Aiś... Wealth, strength, fame and śrī. Śrī means beauty. And jñāna. Jñāna means knowledge. And vairāgya means renunciation. Wealth, fame, then strength, beauty, and knowledge and renunciation. If these six things are in full present in anyone, He is God. Otherwise, he's a dog or less than God. And in the Vedic literature we find the definition: na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Now, are we in that position that we have nothing to do? Oh, if you do not work I cannot eat even. The whole function is stopped. But the definition is na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Now, take for example this beautiful flower. This beautiful flower, you have to accept there is a great brain behind this beauty. Because here we have got so many artists. When they draw picture, oh, how nicely they apply their brain, their painting, everything, then... But that beauty is not as beautiful as this flower. If ordinary beauty painted by a, an artist, it takes so much time and labor, do you think that this beauty is done automatically? What is the explanation? This is nonsense, that there is no brain behind it. There is. That is the brain of God. That is explained: na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Although it is so beautifully done, but He has nothing to do. How? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. His energy is so powerful that svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca: everything is coming out as natural product, energy. Just like so many things happening in your body. The hair is growing. Can you explain how the hair is growing? You do not know even in your body how things are taking place. But there is energy. It is accepted that there is energy in your body which is helping to grow so many things in your body. So if you have got so much energy that things are taking automatically, just imagine how much energy He has got.



*So these are explained in the Vedic literature. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate: "He has nothing to do and nobody is equal or greater than Him." Therefore God is great. Nobody can be equal. You cannot claim that you are God. Then you claim "God," I claim "God," he, she claims "God," he claims "God." Then what is the meaning of "God"? Nobody... God is great. Nobody can be greater than Him. Then how you can claim that you are God, I am God? Then either you do not know what is the definition of God or you are foolishly claiming that you are God. You must... If you claim, if you come here and introduce yourself, "I am President Johnson," oh, you must present your credential that you are President Johnson. Otherwise, we shall say you are crazy. So if you cannot present yourself even like ordinary president*-you are claiming that you're God-how much nonsense you are. Don't claim in that way. There is no equal to God. Oh, there are so many equals to you, so many greater than you, lower than you. So you are not absolute. God is absolute. In the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is described, that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Dhanajaya, Arjuna, nobody's greater than Me." Anyat. Anyat means anyone. So this is the one of the symptoms of God, that nobody is greater than Him. So you have to prove that nobody's greater than you. If you simply think falsely that "Nobody's greater than me. Nobody's...I am moving this sun. I am moving this moon. I am...," so you have to prove it. Otherwise, it is nonsense. But if you remain in your actual position, that "I am not God, but I am part and parcel of God, and God is nondifferent..." Just like the part and parcel of your body, this finger, and the whole body... If you make analytical study: "Oh, there is blood, there is vein, there is muscle, there is skin, there is bone, everything complete," as much as there is blood, vein, muscle, bones, everything in the whole body, so, as part and parcel, the, all the qualities, or all the ingredients of God are there. But he is a small quantity; *therefore part and parcel. But even it is small quantity, if you actually come to the platform of God, then you'll become almost equal like God. But you cannot be God. That is not possible. Then there is no meaning of God, because God is great. And in the Vedic literature it is confirmed that na tasya kāryaṁ ca vidyate na tasya sama adhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody's greater than Him, nobody's equal to Him. He, He has nothing to do. Everything is being performed by His multi*-energies."

So these descriptions are there. So you have to... Vedic knowledge means the knowledge of authority. So you have to prove. But there is a process for understanding God, that "I am God." That is a process. But not that one is God. "I am God" means in that way: "Qualitatively, I am God." So we have to find out, meditation, "What is that quality?" That quality is the spirit soul, on account of whose presence the whole body is working. As soon as the spirit soul is absent from this body, this body has no more any value. That you have to understand. And what is that spirit soul? That you have to find out, where it is. Where is the spirit soul... Now, if you medically analyze where is the spirit soul, you cannot find out. But there, in the yoga process, there are different rules and regulations, sitting posture and then breathing exercise, controlling the air passing through this body. In that way, gradually you come to know what is that... Not only you come to know, but the perfection of yoga system is that you can practice to take the soul from six different position, from the navel position to the heart, then to the, it is called, what is called?

Jadurāṇī: Throat.



*Prabhupāda: Neck. Yes, kantha. Then you can bring it between the brows, and when you are sufficiently practiced, you can transfer your soul from the top of your brain to any planet you like. That is the perfection of yoga. That is not possible nowadays. Nobody can practice. Real perfection of yoga is not possible in this age. That breathing exercise, the sitting posture, following the rules and regulations... Nobody's following the rules and regulation, what to speak of the sitting posture. That is a process, recommended process. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad*-gītā also, and in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. But that process is not possible at the present days. But if you want spiritual perfection at the present age, then this is the recommended process by Caitanya Mahāprabhu:



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



Anyathā means other process. Anyathā. Because we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, it does not mean that we are condemning other process. No. The other process is there in the scriptures and authoritative scriptures. But other process is not possible to be practiced in this age. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kalau, "In this age," nāsty eva nāsty eva, "it is..., there is no possibility to practice other process." Nāsty eva nāsty eva, three times. Just like if I say three times, "It is not possible, not possible, not possible," that means to confirm it, three times. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva: "It is not possible, not possible, not possible." Gatir anyathā: "There is no other alternative." If you are at all seriously, I mean to say, interested for spiritual salvation, then this is the process. This is the process. Now, so far this process is concerned, we have got many students. Now you can talk with them and you can see practically how they have advanced by practicing this simple process. At least they are pure in their habit and they are confident about their progress. There are so many things.



*So we have to follow the prescribed process. There are different processes mentioned in the Vedic literature that kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu [SB 12.3.52]. Kṛte means in the Satya*-yuga. There is no English translation, what is called Satya-yuga, but people have got imagination, "Golden Age," or something like that. Satya-yuga. Satya-yuga means cent percent people are pure. And Tretā-yuga means seventy-five percent people are pure and twenty-five percent impure. And Dvāpara-yuga means half and half-half pure, half impure. And Kali-yuga means almost impure. Impure. Ninety-nine percent impure. This is Kali-yuga. So, for spiritual salvation, for transcendental realization, it is said when... Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu. When people were cent percent pure, at that time, the process of meditation was successful, because this meditation requires fully purification of the body. Otherwise, simply closing your eyes, if you meditate and sleep... I've seen, practically. They are meditating (snores). I have seen. Perhaps you have also seen. Yes. Because it is naturally. If you close your eyes and you have nothing to do, oh, naturally you'll be, feel sleepy. And you'll feel sleepy and go on. You see? So this is not possible. Therefore śāstra says, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu. The meditation of Viṣṇu was possible in the Golden Age when everyone, cent percent, people were pure. Then next age, tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. Makhaiḥ means sacrifice, performing great sacrifices. Sacrifice means, if you want to perform sacri..., you require hundreds of mounds of butter and so much grain, so many things that you cannot provide at the present moment. Nobody can provide. So that is also not possible. Yajato makhaiḥ. Makhaiḥ means sacrifices, great sacrifices. And dvāpare paricaryāyām. The next stage, by temple worship, or church worship. That is also not possible. Nobody is interested in this age to go to the temple or to the church, or they are not satisfied with the management of the temples or the church. So many things. Anyway, this has become practically impossible to get any enlightenment. So dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Therefore in this age of disagreement and quarrel, this is the best process. Never mind whatever you are. It doesn't require any prequalification. Simply you sit down. You sit down together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see? Very practical. You haven't got to sit in a particular position or fashion, āsana. You haven't got to exercise your breathing process. Nothing. Simply you sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that we have read just now, a practical experience of one reporter, and there are students. They have got practical... Simply by chanting you get the highest ecstasy.

So it is said in the Bhāgavata:

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*This is hari*-kīrtana. This is the process. So we have to... There are many, many things in the drug shop, but you have to accept a medicine out of thousands of medicines which is described by the physician. Your physician gives you note that "You get this medicine from the drug shop and you'll be cured." Similarly, there may be different processes for self-realization, but at the present, this is the only prescribed method for self-realization. If you do not accept it, then you'll be misled. Just like if you say to a drug shop, "The doctor has asked me to take some medicine. So give me any medicine," oh, the drug shop owner will say, "No, I cannot give you any medicine. You give me... Bring the prescription of the doctor. Then I shall give you." That is real treatment. If you actually want spiritual understanding, then you must follow the prescribed method. And you can practically feel also. In other method, you have to do so many things which are practically impossible. But, if you simply imitate or do something which will never be fulfilled, then you can indulge in such waste of time. But, if you actually want result, then this is the process. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu thrice, three times He says, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. There is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative. This is the easiest process and you have no loss. You haven't got to pay us anything as fees. If you pay us, it is welcome, but we don't charge anything. But to maintain the establishment, sometimes we beg from you. That is a different thing. But we don't demand that "You give me so many dollars. Then I shall teach you what is Hare Kṛṣṇa." The Hare Kṛṣṇa is there, openly written, and you can chant. You can take the advantage.



So don't falsely claim that you are God. You are everything. You are moving this world. Why? Actually are you doing that? Then why do you falsely claim like that? What is your answer? If I... You meditate that "I am moving the sun. I am moving the moon. I am moving everything." Are you dong that? You do..., cannot move yourself. You are so much dependent on the laws of nature. Why you are falsely claiming like that? What is your answer? Give me your answer, those who are thinking that "I am God." Do you think thinking, by thinking one will be God? Where is your power? Yes? You want to ask? No? So actually it is not the position. I am God in that sense, I have already analyzed, that I have got the, in minute quantity... As I am minute quantity, fragmental portion of God, so similarly, I have got all the qualities of God in fragment. For example, this consciousness take. That is practical. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, it is not that Kṛṣṇa has got consciousness and you haven't got consciousness. You have got also consciousness. That's a practical experience. Every one of us are conscious as God is conscious. So you are also conscious. Now, what is the difference between God's consciousness and your consciousness? That you have to find out. Can you say me? You should know all these things. Consciousness...

Devotee: God's consciousness is absolute; mine is not.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you are not God. God consciousness is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetra. The Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, says that "This body is the field of our activities." Otherwise, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "I am also conscious. I am also knower." As you are knower, so God is also knower. But the difference of His knowledge*-that He's omnipotent, omnipresent; *you are not omnipotent, omnipresent. That is the difference. You have got some potency, and you are also present in some limited circle, but He is present everywhere. You are not present in another planet, but God is present everywhere. That is His omnipresence, omnipotent. So He's also conscious, kṣetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "Also know that I am also knower, but My knowledge expands everywhere, but your knowledge expands only within this body." That is the difference.



*So similarly, in any capacity you analyze, so far the definition of God*-wealth... Now, He's the proprietor of all wealth. Now, nobody can claim... Even the, I mean, the biggest rich man of your country, the Rockefeller or the Ford company or..., nobody can claim that he's the only richest man. No. There are many others. So nobody can claim that "I am the richest." No. Nobody can claim that "I am the most famous." No. Nobody can claim that "I am the most beautiful." Nobody can claim that "I am the absolute knower." In this way, you apply the definition in yourself, you'll find that you partly and partially represent all the qualities of God. That you can claim, that you are partial God, or part and parcel of... That is the exact word, part and... Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. These living entities, jīva-bhūta... There are two definitions of the living entities. One definition is jīva-bhūta, and another definition is Brahmā bhūta [SB 4.30.20]. What is the jīva-bhūta? So long the living entity has got the misconception of his existence, that "I am this body," he's called jīva-bhūta. And when he is completely in knowledge that "I am not this body," that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. The same "I," one is false identification, and another is real identification. The real identification begins-brahma-bhūtaḥ, to know that "I am not this matter; I am spirit soul." That is the beginning. Even in that beginning understanding, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," there is Brahman realization, but that Brahman realization has to be increased. That means not only realize yourself that you are Brahman or spirit soul, but you have to engage yourself as Brahman and spirit, to work as Brahman. Then the perfection is complete. And how to work that? So long as you are inactive, your Brahman realization is not perfect. I have several times given this example, that if a diseased man is cured, the temperature is no more coming. That is the stage of cure. But that is not perfect stage of cure. When you actually work without any fever, without any disease, that is your perfect stage. Similarly, simply by understanding theoretically that you are not this body, you are soul, that is not perfect realization. Perfect realization is to work in Brahman stage.

*Now, how is that working? That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*That means the same thing. Just like here, in this jīva*-bhūta stage, false identification stage, we are also anxious to hear something. We are reading daily in the morning some newspaper, "This, this thing has happened there. This thing has happened here. Here is something available." But as soon you become brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20], you lose all interest in such nonsense things. You'll be interested to hear about Kṛṣṇa, not about the newspaper. This is called liberation. No more attraction for material engagement. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Viṣṇu means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So your hearing, your chanting, your remembering, your acting-everything will be in connection with Viṣṇu. That is real Brahman realization stage, active stage.



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*Take, take the example of Arjuna. What is that? He was in the battlefield. The problem was to fight or not to fight. But so long he was not in the brahma*-bhūta stage, identifying his body, that "I am this body," he was thinking the bodily relationship: "Oh, he's my father. He's my brother. He's my uncle. He's my grandfather." He was hesitant. But the same fighting remained after hearing Bhagavad-gītā. And what is the change? The change is that bodily identification gone, spiritual identification taken, that he, as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, it is his duty to serve Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. I must fight. That's all." Similarly, brahma-bhūta stage means when you fight for Kṛṣṇa. The fighting here, in this world, nobody can remain without fighting, struggle for existence. Everyone has to fight. Daily you are fighting to exist. Utilize this fighting for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara [Bg. 8.7]. It is not that, oh, fighting is stopped. Fighting you have to do so long you are in this material world. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to become lazy. You have to act practically for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So everything will remain the same. But when it is done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you are making progress, spiritual realization. And, doing that, if you are so fortunate that always thinking of Kṛṣṇa and dying for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. You at once transferred to Kṛṣṇaloka. This is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So you haven't got to do anything. Simply you have to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and for Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful. That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yat karoṣi yad juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. Now, yat karoṣi. You have to do something. You have to work. Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Oh, because you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you, you simply..." If you can, simply can think of Kṛṣṇa, it is very good. But in our present position, that is not possible, because we are not so advanced that we can simply think of Kṛṣṇa. But simply think of Kṛṣṇa is automatically done if you work for Kṛṣṇa. The same example, just like I gave you several times, that a woman who is attached with another lover, he, she appears to be very much engaged in the family duties but she's always thinking of her lover, when she'll meet at night. The thinking process is going on even with the activities of her household affairs. These examples are given in Vedic literature. Similarly, if you actually love Kṛṣṇa, then, in spite of your being engaged in so many works, you can think of Kṛṣṇa, full meditation. That is possible, practical. If you have got, I mean to say, very eager attraction for a certain thing, in spite of your acting differently, you are thinking of that. There are many examples. Suppose somebody beloved, your son, is ill at home. You have come to office to work. You are working but you are thinking, "How is the boy? How the child is there? How the child is there?" It is a question of love only. So there are certain processes, regulative processes. If you follow those processes, then automatically you become a lover of Kṛṣṇa. Just like one process: this chanting. You go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and you'll find very soon you become a lover of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the boy. Here is our Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. He says that "I was attached to drug habit, to intoxication habit, meat-eating. Now my attachment is now changed. I am now for Kṛṣṇa." So automatically he has become pure. It is so nice. Therefore I asked him to read that paper because that is practical experience. No more, no more they feels any inconvenience, those who have given up even smoking, tea-taking, coffee-taking, meat-eating. Because these practices are very common thing in your country. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so wonderful that for years together they are no more taking tea, coffee, smoking, meat, everything; *they don't feel any inconvenience. They are happy, quite happy, in taking simple Kṛṣṇa prasāda. Similarly, in so many ways you'll be freed, and that is brahma*-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: [Bg. 18.54] no more anxiety. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, even if he does not eat for three days, he'll not feel unhappy. These are practical.

*So from jīva*-bhūta stage, completely dependent on the laws of nature, you gradually become free from the laws of nature. And when you are perfectly free from the laws of nature, that is called brahma-bhūta stage. Brahma-bhūta stage means self-realized stage. And, and the symptom is prasannātmā, always joyful. An ordinary man, habituated to smoke, oh, if I ask him to don't smoke, oh, he'll feel inconvenience after half an hour. There is many chain-smoker. They feel... They ask permission, "Swamijī, can I smoke?" Feeling disturbances. But these boys and girls who were habituated to smoking and everything, they have given for years but they don't feel any inconvenience. This is liberation from one point. Two points. Second point. When he's cent percent liberated from these material demands, then he's perfect, as good as God. But I've seen that so many, I mean to..., students of yoga class, they cannot give up their these habits. I have seen. Neither they ask them to give up this habit. Then nobody will go. These are practical. (pause, phone rings, devotee answers and gives temple address-95 Glenville, Allston)

Any question? If you have any doubts you can make question. We shall try to clear it.

Young woman: What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness in relation to other faiths, like, say, when you think of Kṛṣṇa and you die, in a battle for Kṛṣṇa or something? What if you believed in Jesus Christ and you died...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young woman: ...in battle for Jesus Christ?



Prabhupāda: Yes, you can think of Jesus Christ. That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Young woman: And so then you would immediately go with...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, you go the platform where Jesus Christ is there. You go there. It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*There are many platforms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So even in this material world... This is a fact. If you want to go to the moon planet, oh, there is no necessity of going by some sputnik or by mechanical arrangement. You can go there simply by following the consciousness to go to the moon planet. That is there in the Vedic literature. You can immediately... Not immediately. After... But you cannot go with this body-even by sputnik. They are trying. It is no t possible. It is not possible. Several times I have explained that in the moon planet the temperature is*-that is scientists' explanation-two hundred degree below zero. So with this body, if you go to the moon planet, you shall immediately die. So you have to prepare yourself for getting another suitable body with which body you can exist in the moon planet. Similarly, you can go to the Kṛṣṇa planet. But, if you go to the Kṛṣṇa planet then you haven't got to come back. Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. You can go to any planet if you desire. You can remain in this planet or you can go down also, according to your... This is the preparation stage. So why not utilize this life for going back to Kṛṣṇa?



Young woman: Well, I don't quite understand how you say you go to the moon planet and die. What about the space suits or living inside a spaceship on the moon. That's...



Prabhupāda: By spaceship you can... At least, at the present moment, the spaceships are not so perfect that it can go to the moon planet.



Young woman: Not at the present.



*Prabhupāda: It may be in the future, the spaceships are perfect and you can go to the moon planet. But even if you go to the moon planet, that is not your highest perfection, because within this material world, if you go to any planet, moon or the highest planet, Brahmaloka... Moon planet is very near to us. It is only few hundreds thousands miles away. But there are many planets very, very high. The Brahmaloka, they are also described. Even in the Bhagavad-gītā there is description. So ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. You can go there. Just like I came to your country*-very nice, comfortable apartment, all things are available; *everything all right. But now my visa period is finished. I'll have to go to Canada. You see? Similarly, if you have got so much restriction in, in a ordinary state that people from other parts of the world may come but they can stay here for six months or one year, or as limited by the visa, then go back, similarly, anywhere you go within this material world, you have to come back. Ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. You have to come back. And besides that, any planet you go within this material world, the four principles of material sufferings are there. What are those? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: [Bg. 13.9] birth, death, old age and disease. Everywhere there is. Your period of life may be very long, but these four things are there. You have to take your birth. Suppose you prepare yourself for going to the moon planet. Then next life, after leaving this body, you'll be pushed into the womb of a mother there in the moon planet, and you'll come out with a suitable body. So the birth is there, and wherever there is birth and death, there is disease and old age. But I am, as spirit soul, I am free from... Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. I have nothing to do with birth, death and disease and old age. I am spirit soul. Na jāyate na mriyate na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇaḥ. It is always, although it is the oldest, it is always fresh. Just like I have become. Now, amongst you, I am the oldest man. You are fresh. But the propensities of you and when the..., of me, it is the same. I want to enjoy life. The same propensities which I had in my youthful life, I've got still. But because my body has become old, I cannot enjoy like that. So it is the bodily impediments that is hampering my real happiness. So problem is how to get out of this entanglement of repetition of taking one body after another, one body after another, as we are taking in this life also. That is the solution. That solution is yad gatvā na nivartante. Kṛṣṇa says, tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: [Bg. 15.6] "If you go to My planet, you have no more (to) come back again." You get your eternal life, eternal, blissful life, full of knowledge and remain, enjoy like Kṛṣṇa with Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection.



So we are giving the information of the highest perfectional stage of living entity. It is nothing bluff or artificial; *it is fact, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There are volumes of books, volumes of understanding. If you have got time, read them. Just like if you want to be a scholar, there are facilities. But, if you want to simply waste your time some by thinking artificially that you are God and do nothing, you can do that. You are at liberty. That will not bring any benefit. Maybe some benefit, temporarily, but real solution is there. If you believe in the Vedic scriptures, then real solution is yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. So everything is there. You can take advantage of these facilities. Therefore we have opened this center. You come. You try to understand and be benefited. We are not asking you that "Give us thousand dollars. Then we shall open our secret." Our secret is all open secret. You simply take advantage of it. Try to understand with your reason, with your sense, everything. We are prepared to convince you because we have got every equipment(?). We are not manufacturing anything bogus. We have got everything complete. So what was your question? Your question? Yes?

Young woman: No.



Prabhupāda: No, you just asked me this question. You asked me this question.



Young woman: Oh, I asked you...



Prabhupāda: Yes, what is the question?



Young woman: The question was basically... The first question was what was the relationship of Kṛṣṇa with Christ, and you answered that. The second question was about, just about going to the moon, and you were saying that it would be possible, but you would...



*Prabhupāda: There is no eternal life. In the moon planet... It is a planet like this planet. So as there is death, birth, old age and disease, so you go in any planet within this universe-there are millions of planets*-the same thing will follow. The moon planet's..., standard of moon planet may be a little more comfortable materially, just like the standard of living in your country is little better than Indian standard of living. But that does not mean you are not under the laws of these material sufferings. The same thing, either you become white or black or American or Indian, the material sufferings are there, birth death, old age and disease. But if you want to get out of it, then Kṛṣṇa. Yes.



Bhaktijana: If you come to the Brahmaloka, do you have to come back to the...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Bhaktijana: ...the earth planet?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, any planet, earth planet or any planet. Suppose if I go out of your state*-I may go to England or I may go to hell, but I am out. That's all. Your immigration departments wants that I, I must be out. I may go to hell or England or any other. (laughs) They want to say, "You are out." Similarly, the Brahmaloka planet, you'll see that you are out, either you come to this planet or moon planet or hell planet or heaven planet. That doesn't matter. They won't allow you to stay there. But the advantage of Brahmaloka planet is that you get very, very long duration of life and the standard of living, and there are so many things. Yes. Similarly, moon planet also, the standard of living and duration of life, you get ten thousand years of life, and there one day equal to your six months. What you calculate as six months here according to the solar system, in the moon planet that six months equal to their one day. Similarly, thirty days, one month; twelve months, one year. Similarly, ten thousand years you get, life there. But there is death. Just like the small microbe; it has got life, say, for few minutes, and you have got life, say, for a hundred years. That does not mean that you are immortal and that the microbe is a mortal. Both of us. Similarly, there are, in other planets, the duration of life may be very, very, very long, but that does not mean that they will not die. The death is there. Death can be eradicated only when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka, or in the spiritual sky. Yad gatvā...



na tatra bhāsayate sūryo

na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

[Bg. 15.6]



*These descriptions are there in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that in the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine. Bhāsayate sūr... Na yatra bhāsayate sūryaḥ. Sūrya means the sun. There is no need of sun. There is no need of moon. There is no need of electricity. These descriptions are there.



na yatra bhāsayate sūryo

na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

[Bg. 15.6]



*If one, one, anyone goes there, he doesn't come back again. So to go to that platform, or that plat..., planet, you don't require any sputnik or any airplane. Simply you have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. But unfortunately, we have no taste for this simple thing. We want to do something wonderful. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa does not prescribe anything which is impractical. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. The process is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: [Bg. 9.14] "Always chanting about Me." This "Me" means..., does not mean Kṛṣṇa. I mean to say, Kṛṣṇa means God; you can chant that also. But it must be bona fide. But this is approved, "Kṛṣṇa." Therefore if our aim is to make our, I mean to say, if we want to revive our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, this is the simplest method. You can do it.



Young woman: (indistinct) proofs (indistinct) of the name of God?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Young woman: How do you know that a name is approved?



Prabhupāda: How do you know even your name? How do you know?



Young woman: It's given by a human being.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Young woman: It was told to me by a person.



Prabhupāda: So who? Who told you?



Young woman: I suppose my mother.



Prabhupāda: Why do you believe her? That is your name?



Young woman: Why do I believe her?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do you believe her? I say that it is not your name. Why do you believe that this is your name?



Young woman: I can choose my name if I don't like the name I have.



Prabhupāda: That is all right. But why do you believe? When I say, "What is your name?" you put your name which is given by your parents? And why not by your friend?



Young woman: It's arbitrary.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Young woman: It's arbitrary.



Prabhupāda: But you accept it.



Young woman: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So you have to accept because your mother is authority.



Young woman: Yes. But who is the authority for telling me...



Prabhupāda: That's all right. This is the principle. So you have to accept the name of God from God. You cannot manufacture.



Young woman: How do you know that "Kṛṣṇa" is a name of God?



Prabhupāda: That, it will take some time. How do you know he's your father? Some gentleman comes. Your mother says, "He's your father." How do you know it?



Young woman: I have no proof?



Prabhupāda: Can you have any proof, that he's your father?



Young woman: I suppose there will be biological...



Prabhupāda: No. You are not born at that time. How can you know that he is your father? You have to take, accept, your mother's version. That's all. That is your authority. Your mother says, "This gentleman is your father." You have to accept it. There is no other way to understand.



Young woman: ...convenient to accept it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So you accept the authority. Then you know Kṛṣṇa, who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa.



Young woman: Then who is the authority?



Prabhupāda: Just like your mother is authority, similarly, there are authorities. This is the process. This is the process. If you want to know who is your father, you have to know it from your mother. There is no other alternative. Is it not a fact?



Young woman: I might know...



Prabhupāda: First of all, you answer this. If you want to know who is your father, who can be better authority than your mother?



Young woman: No one. But she may also make...



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Young woman: ...mistakes.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Young woman: No one, but she may also make mistakes.



Prabhupāda: That is your misfortune. If your mother misleads you, gives you misinformation, then that is your misfortune, but there is no other way to know who is your father except your mother.



Young woman: But also there is no way for me to know who my mother is.



Prabhupāda: That may be, but I am speaking of the process to understand. This is the process. I may be the, the man who is presenting or the woman who is presenting somebody as your father, she might be misleading you. That is a different thing. But you have no other process to understand your father except your mother.



Young woman: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly, there is a process how to know God. So you have to accept that process. Then you'll know God. There is no other alternative.



Young woman: Yet you say that there are several processes for knowing God. Is that right? That are written? And that only one can be used now?



Prabhupāda: That several processes may be, but you have to take any process from the authority. Any process you accept, that means you accept the authority.



Young woman: How does the authority know to tell you?



Prabhupāda: That he knows. You have to accept that he knows that... Your mother knows. You have to accept it. Otherwise, there is no question of believing your mother. Unless you believe that your mother knows who is your father, then there is no question of asking her who is your father. If you don't believe your mother, then you have no necessity of questioning who is your father. First of all, you have to believe that your mother is the only authority to let you know who is your father. If you are not convinced in that point, then don't ask. Then always remain in oblivion who is your father.



Young woman: I understand the first example, but not the analogy.



Prabhupāda: Why? If you want to know your father, you have to know it from your mother.



Young woman: I understand.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Young woman: But...



Prabhupāda: But, if you don't believe your mother, then there is no other way to know your father.



Young woman: I understand that.



Prabhupāda: That's all. Similarly, here are scriptures who are telling, speaking about God. If you have no faith in scripture, there is no other process to know God.



Young woman: I see. But I understand why I should have faith in my mother for biological reasons, and I don't see why I should have faith in...



Prabhupāda: But that is the rule. You may, biologically, may be different, crazy, but that is the rule.



Young woman: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Well that is the rule. How can you change the rule? You are female. You have got some specific rules. You have to follow. He's a man. He has got some specific rules he has to follow. This is the nature's law. How can you avoid it?



Young woman: Sorry?



Prabhupāda: How can you avoid it? You have certain feelings, propensities, as woman. How can you avoid it? So you cannot avoid the nature's law.



Young woman: But then some, some rules have to be told to me or read from the scriptures. And some I know inherently, in myself.



Prabhupāda: What you know inherently, that is not correct. Then why do you go to school? You know that the...



Young woman: Yes, but there are...



Prabhupāda: No. You know that the sun looks for your... By your direct experience, you see the sun just like a disc...



Young woman: Yes.



Prabhupāda: ...but when you go to school, you understand it is many hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So your knowledge is always imperfect. You have to know from authority. That is the rule. If you want to know about the sun, you have to go to the authority who knows about the sun, not by your intuition, you think, "Oh, it is a disc. It is like this. It is like that." You go on speculation, but it is not perfect knowledge.



Young woman: When I go to the authority, and he tells me about the sun...



*Prabhupāda: Anyway, wherever you go, first of all you believe that "Here is the place where I can know the real thing." That is the authority. If you have no faith, then you have no knowledge. You remain with your own knowledge. Go on speculating. Therefore the Vedic instruction is tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you want to know that science, then you have to approach a bona fide spiritual master. There is no other way. You cannot speculate. You cannot manufacture. That is not possible, because your senses are all imperfect, your capacity is imperfect, so you cannot have any perfect knowledge. You have to get it from authority who has got perfect knowledge. That is the principle. So if you want to know God, then you have to approach a bona fide person who knows God. Otherwise, it is not possible. If you don't find such person, then you'll always remain ignorant what is God. That is the process. But there is authority. There is possibility, provided we are fortunate, we get in contact. Then everything is all right.



Bhaktijana Does Jesus Christ reside in the Vaikuṇṭhas or Brahmaloka?



Prabhupāda: No. Vaikuṇṭha. He's person. Brahmaloka, Brahmaloka is within this material world, and Vaikuṇṭha, in the spiritual world. Do you follow what I say? That if you want to know God, you have to approach a person who knows God. Otherwise there is no possibility. If you think that "Here is a man who knows God," then you ask him. If you don't think that in this world there is no man who knows God, then you have to remain in ignorance about the knowledge of God.



Young woman: That seems a very hopeless situation.



Prabhupāda: Then hopeless for you, but not for others. One who accepts...



Young woman: How, how do I...



*Prabhupāda: One who accepts the authority, then it is not hopeless for him. It is very simple. Just like one is asking, "Swamijī, what is this?" I say, "It is rose flower." Then the knowledge of rose flower is there. Then, if somebody says, "I don't accept it," then he may not know. So you have to accept authority. There is no other alternative. Now you have to find out who is authority. That requires intelligence. If you go to a bogus man and ask him about God, you may be misled. That is a fact. That is your duty*-to find out a man who knows God. Then you'll get. Just like... This is commonsense affair. Suppose if you want to purchase something in the market, some milk. So you have to know that "I'll have to go to some store." You don't go to a hardware man, hardware dealer's. If you go to a hardware dealer and ask him, "Give me one bottle of milk," he'll say, "You are crazy. This is hardware shop." So you must have such common sense where to go and ask for God. That common sense must be there. And that is also very easily understood. Those who have devoted their life for God and they have no other business than God, to serve God, he is the right man.



Young woman: May I ask another question?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young woman: Thank you. Do you say that God has nothing to do?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young woman: But He has lots of energies, and...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young woman: ...it is the energy that creates beautiful things?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Young woman: How is the energy ordered?



Prabhupāda: How is the energy...?



Young woman: Is ordered? How is it that there are both roses...



*Prabhupāda: Well, that energy is so perfect. Just like you are feeling some itching. You want to itch it. Immediately hand goes. It does not require that you have to train the hand to itch it. So you have got such energy. So just imagine*-He's complete. He's full-how much His energy is perfect. He doesn't require. Immediately He desires... Just like in Bible it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation,'-immediately there was creation." So His energy is so perfect that He wanted to see this material cosmic manifestation-immediately there was. But because we haven't got such energy we think this is all illusion or fictitious or something like that. Because if you want something immediately, you have no such energy that, immediately, the same thing is done. That is not possible. That is possible also when you are also in spiritual life. But now you are conditioned by the matter; therefore that is not being perfected. But when you are also in pure spiritual life, you can do like that, like God. Immediately, whatever you want, you can do. Immediately, wherever you want to go, you can go. That is the... That perfection is there.



Young woman: Does that mean that you can do it just so that you see it or so that other people can see it?



Prabhupāda: No, anyone who comes to the spiritual perfection, he can act like that.



Young woman: Then my question is if you have a man who has spiritual perfection and another man sitting next to him who does not have spiritual perfection, and the man who has perfection wishes to have a rose, and, and...



Prabhupāda: Wishes to have?



Young woman: A rose. And, a rose...



Disciple: A flower.



Prabhupāda: A rose? Oh.



Young woman: ...and he might see the rose or have that rose because he has spiritual perfection.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is possible.



Young woman: Can the other man see the rose?



Prabhupāda: That is possible.



Young woman: The other man can...



Prabhupāda: That is possible. That is the yogic perfection. If anyone... There are eight kinds of yogic perfection, and one is called prāpti. Prāpti means if actually a man is in yogic perfection, he can immediately have whatever he wants. That is possible.



Young woman: How do you measure...



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Young woman: ...your liberation from the laws of nature.



Prabhupāda: Well, that, as you replace yourself to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... You are under the laws of nature because you are material conscious. Just like one who is in criminal consciousness, he's committing criminal activities and going to jail. It is the change of consciousness. The same man, if he changes his criminal consciousness, then he's no more subjected to go to the jail. Similarly, liberation means, if you become complete in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are liberated. All right. Have saṅkīrtana. (kīrtana; *Prabhupāda leads prema*-dhvanī) Thank you very much.



Devotee:



*nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine



*Prabhupāda: Give me that paper. Distribute prasādam. [break] ...this appreciation one thing. And another thing is how to produce a flower like Kṛṣṇa with my energy. Do you follow? Two attempt. One is appreciation of Kṛṣṇa's energy, how great He is, that simply by His desire, His energies are so perfect that it is producing such nice flower. This is appreciation. And another thing is, how shall I get that power, yogic power, so that as soon as I desire, there may be a rose flower. Now, suppose I attain that power, to produce with my desire a rose flower. In Benares there was a yogi, Viśuddhānanda Sarasvatī. Whoever used to come to him, he would at once take a plate and give him, and at once he'll find two nice sweetmeat. So by this extraordinary power, many learned scholars and professors and big men: "Oh, he is a great yogi. He can manufacture rasagullā." You see? "In a plate, as soon as you go, there immediately he presents." This is magic, they are captivated by the magic. They are not... They are so foolish that they did not consider what is worth this sweetmeat? Four cents and four cents, eight cents. So even if he has achieved that power, for producing this rasagullā what he has attained? It is worth eight cents. Suppose if I show some magical power and present one rose flower in your hand, you may be very surprised*-now, "Oh, Swamijī is wonderful." But what is the meaning of that wonderful? Say ten cents. That's all. You can purchase one flower with ten cents. So don't be after these magical things. Just try to appreciate Kṛṣṇa, how He's great. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do you follow what I say? Don't be after magicians. The magic, magician can also play very nice, wonderful..., so many things. But that is not perfection. Suppose if I can create by my yogic power two rasagullā or one rasagullā, what is the worth? A few cents only. Just try to revive your eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life. Then you get all perfection. Don't be after... People are after magical things. What magic I can show God? Just like the scientists. They are trying to create life in the laboratory, although they have not been able to create even an ant. Suppose he's able to create some living entity. Just like the scientist is very proud for inventing this flying machine. But just see how many millions and trillions of flying machines are flying in the sky created by God-without any machine. So you cannot surpass the intelligence and energy of God. Therefore you simply appreciate. That is your perfection. Yes.



*Young woman: When you say one, one has been, one has perfection, then one is no longer interested in reading the newspaper and what goes on in the world*-is that right?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Young woman: If one has achieved spiritual perfection...



Prabhupāda: Yes?



Young woman: One is no longer interested in what goes on in the world.



Prabhupāda: Why not interested?



Young woman: I'm asking...



Prabhupāda: Why do you say "not interested"? I can understand you also.



Young woman: Because you said we wouldn't read the newspapers any more...



Prabhupāda: Eh? No... (end)



Lecture

-

Boston, December 23, 1969



691223L2.BOS



Prabhupāda: ...ways that God is giving facility to become one of His associates. (indistinct). So, nobody is seeking after God. When you will seek after God, God is situated within your heart, He will give you all facility. And so long you want to become God, you will be cheated, because you are trying to cheat yourself. How you can become God? First thing is that, you are trying to become God, then how you became a dog? God cannot become a dog. God is always God. The Māyāvādī philosopher says that "I am God, but I am, by māyā, I am thinking I am not God. So by meditation I shall become God." But that means he is under the punishment of māyā. So, God has become under the influence of māyā. How is it that? God is great, and if he is under the influence of māyā, then māyā becomes great. How God becomes great?



So the real idea is, so long we shall continue this hallucination, that "I am God," "There is no God," "Everybody is God," so many things like that, there is no question of getting favor of God. Then you do your own business, and try to find yourself, whether you are God or something else. As soon as I think that "I am God," that is I am trying to cheat myself. Who will help me? So that is going on. Everyone is thinking, "I am God." So what you are thinking? You are trying to become God, or what is? What is your idea? Or you are thinking there is no God?

Man: I am thinking that there is one.



Prabhupāda: There is God? You are thinking like that?



Man: Yes. I am also..., can see that I was trying to become God.



Prabhupāda: So, you are trying to become God, that means you are not God. Is it not? How you became not God? (laughter) How you became not God? God is (indistinct) just like so many think that, there are, it, it becomes not. That God is great, then how He is great? Then you, your conclusion should be that "I am not that God who is great. I am a different God who becomes sometimes not God." (laughter) Therefore you are a different God from that God who is great. Is it not? So that is a fact. Because you are part and parcel of God, you are minute God, therefore you have the potency of becoming not God. Just like fire and spark of fire. The spark, when it is with the fire it is bright fire, but as soon as it goes out of the fire, it extinguishes. But the big fire never extinguishes. Similarly, you are not that big fire, you are that small spark fire. You have fallen down; therefore you are not God. Now you have to raise yourself again to the fire, you will be again blazing spark. So that is the difference. Thatis stated in the Vedic literature Brahman, every living entity is Brahman, but the Supreme Brahman is Kṛṣṇa. He never becomes not God. We see Kṛṣṇa's life, when He was a child on the lap of His mother, He is God. So many demons they are killed. He hasn't got to meditate to become God. When He was playing, He was God, and when He was fighting in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, He is God. That is God. Not that sometimes not God, sometimes God. That is not God. God is always God, in any circumstance. That is God. (pause) Hare Kṛṣṇa. I am not God. I cannot give so many things. (laughter) So distribute prasādam. (everyone chants japa) (indistinct) Huh? Oh, yes, why not? Nobody, who will please go, please take prasādam.



Devotee: There is a big feast here. Please stay and take prasādam.



Prabhupāda: Please wait two minutes, (indistinct). (end)





691224LE.BOS

Lecture at Harvard University

-

Boston, December 24, 1969



Prabhupāda: I shall speak or you shall speak? I shall speak?



Satsvarūpa: I shall speak?



Prabhupāda: What do you want? I shall speak or you?



Satsvarūpa: I think there's enough people. You could speak.



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



You can... Because I have not seen this ordinary.(?) Bring it. Yes. Yes.



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhistam

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*he kṛṣṇa karuṇā*-sindho

*dīna*-bandho jagat-pate

*gopeśa gopīka*-kānta

*rādhā*-kānta namo 'stu te



[O my dear Kṛṣṇa, ocean of mercy, You are the friend of the distressed and the source of creation. You are the master of the cowherdmen and the lover of the gopīs, especially Rādhārāṇī. I offer my respectful obeisances unto You.]



*tapta*-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi

rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari

*vṛṣabhānu*-sute devī

*praṇamāmi hari*-priye



[I offer my respects to Rādhārāṇī, whose bodily complexion is like molten gold and who is the Queen of Vṛndāvana. You are the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and You are very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa.]



Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare



[My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.]



*Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I thank you very much for joining us in this evening of chanting together Hare Kṛṣṇa. The saṅkīrtana movement is a prescribed performance in this age. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Ninth Chapter, 6th verse, there is a statement that,



*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣā-kṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

*yajñair saṅkīrtana*-prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*Su-medhasaḥ, this Sanskrit word, means intelligent persons. Medhas. Medhas means brain substance, one who has got very good brain substance. The brain substance... According to psychology, there is difference of brain substance. Not the brain substance equally, of equal weight, in every man's brain. You know, you are all educated students, psychology students. In our boyhood when we were a student in psychology class, Dr. Urquhart explained this brain substance. The man has got the highest brain substance*-not all-up to sixty-four ounce. And woman has got the highest up to thirty-six or thirty-four. Of course, we are not discussing that point. Our movement is a spiritual movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is beyond brain. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhir [Bg. 3.42]. So there are different platforms and status of consciousness. Bodily consciousness means sensual consciousness. Above that, there is mental consciousness, speculative, philosophical, poetic. Above that, intellectual consciousness. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness-above intellectual consciousness.



*So the recommendation is... That was a topic between Mahārāja Nimi and great sages called nine sages, navayogindra. Nava means nine. Yogindra means mystic yogis. So they were talking, and Mahārāja Nimi questioned the different incarnations in different ages. And Camasa Muni was replying. In that replying, he said that in the Kali*-yuga, in this age... This age called Kali-yuga. This Kali-yuga has begun about five thousand years ago. So he said, "In the Kali-yuga the process of self-realization is saṅkīrtana movement." Saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtana means bahudhā, bahubhir militvā. When congregational chanting is done, that is called saṅkīrtana. So in this age the saṅkīrtana movement is recommended. There is no question of what is your religion, what is my religion. Everyone can join in this saṅkīrtana movement, without any discrimination. That is the recommendation. Yajñair saṅkīrtana. This is also yajña, sacrifice. You are sacrificing some time, your valuable time, in joining with us to perform the saṅkīrtana movement. That is a sacrifice. And sacrifice means to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yajña. Yajña is the name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajñārthāt karma anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. Whatever you have to act, you have to act on the basis of pleasing the Supreme Lord.

*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavata there is another verse, that,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*Śrī Sūta Gosvāmī is addressing the learned sages assembled in a place called Naimiṣāraṇya. That place is still existing in India, in northern India. It is very old place. Now the place is named Nimsar, but original name is Naimiṣāraṇya. So in that Naimiṣāraṇya meeting, the president, Sūta Gosvāmī, addressed the brāhmaṇas. He said, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā. Dvija-śreṣṭhā means in that assembly the high*-class brāhmaṇas, very intelligent class of men, they assembled. So he addressed them, "My dear learned scholars, brāhmaṇas, the duty of the human society," ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ... The duties are different according to different divisions of social order and spiritual order. That is Vedic civilization. There are four kinds of social orders and four kinds of spiritual orders. The social orders are the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, and the śūdras; *or the intellectual class of men... Brāhmaṇa means intellectual class of men*-one who devotes his life only in studying Vedas and acquiring knowledge and distributing that. Every time, in every age, there is a class of men who are intellectual class. So this intellectual class of men is called brāhmaṇa. And the next class, the administrative class. Those who takes part in politics for administration of the state, government, they are called kṣatriyas. The actual meaning of kṣatriya is "one who protects a man from being hurt by others." That is called kṣatriya. That means, that is the business of the administrators, government. So brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, then vaiśyas. Vaiśyas means productive class who are interested in producing things for consumption by the people. Mercantile class, industrialists, they are called vaiśyas. And the last class, fourth class, they are called śūdras. Śūdras means that they are neither intellectual, nor they're administrator, nor industrial or mercantile, but they can serve others. That's all.



*So it is said that kalau śūdra sambhava. In the modern age, people are being taught in the university to become śūdra-neither brāhmaṇas nor kṣatriyas nor vaiśyas, generally. Because after education, they will have to seek after some service. He becomes a great technologist, but unless he gets a good job, his whole education is spoiled. You see? So therefore, in the Vedic śāstra it is said, in this age people are almost all śūdras. Kalau śūdra sambhava. So the president of that meeting, Sūta Gosvāmī, said that it doesn't matter whether one man is brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya or a vaiśya or a śūdra. This is social order. And then spiritual order: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Brahmacārī means student, unmarried student, without any sex life. That is brahmacārī. And then gṛhastha, householder. Those who are living with wife and children, they are called householder, gṛhastha. Then vānaprastha, the retired persons. And then sannyāsa. After retirement, one dedicates his whole life for preaching work, preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is sannyāsa order. So this is... These four divisions are in the spiritual order, and the other divisions are in the social order. Human society without these eight divisions-means social divisions and spiritual divisions*-it is not called civilized. They must have. Therefore Sūta Gosvāmī said, the social orders are there, and the spiritual orders are there, and each and every order, there are prescribed duties. The brāhmaṇas, they are engaged in such and such things, the brahmacārīs are engaged in such and such thing, the kṣatriyas are engaged... There are different prescribed duties. Now Sūta Gosvāmī says that varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are divisions of duties and divisions of social and spiritual order. That's all right. But how one can understand that by executing his duty, he's going to the path of perfection? Everyone should be confident that whatever he is doing, he's doing for the perfection of life. That should be the aim of. In the modern education system, not only education system, in every field of life, practically we do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know what is the goal of life. The goal of life is Viṣṇu, or the Supreme Lord, or God. That one has to understand what is the Supreme Lord, what is Absolute Truth, "What is my relationship with Him and what is my duty towards Him?" These things are to be known, and one has to adjust his life in that way. So Sūta Gosvāmī says, never mind in whatever order one may be situated, the perfection is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Ataḥ varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ dvija-śreṣṭhā svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. One should try to test, "How my duties are being perfectly done?" That one has to see.

*So that perfection is recommended, hari-toṣaṇam: whether by your duty, by your action, the Supreme Lord is satisfied. Just like we want to satisfy... In the schools, colleges, we want to satisfy our professor, teachers, principal. Or as good citizen we want to satisfy our government or... Similarly, you have to satisfy somebody. That is the perfection. The highest perfection is to satisfy hari-toṣaṇam. Hari means the Supreme Lord, and toṣaṇam means satisfaction. Whether by your work and duties, discharging your duty, the Supreme Lord is satisfied*-that is your perfection. But this is very rare thing. At the present moment practically nobody has any information what is his relationship with God or what is God. Practically, they are declaring "God is dead," and "I am God, you are God, everyone is God." These things are all... "There is void." "There is no God," "There is no control." So, so many things are going on. That is the disease of this present age. And this movement is practically against this idea of godlessness, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The whole idea of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to fight against the idea of godlessness. So the Bhagavad-gītā is there. We are fighting in two ways. One way is that this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very simple thing. Everyone can join: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. By chanting this movement, by the vibration, gradually one's heart, which is so contaminated that he is denying the existence of God, will be gradually simplified or clarified. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Just like the mirror, when it is overcast with dust, you cannot see your face nicely. But if you clear the dust you can see clearly. Similarly, our, this disease, denial of God, or "God is dead," "There is no God," "I am God," "You are God," such kinds of conception is due to covering of material dust on the mirror of our heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. If you simply chant this transcendental vibration, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you don't require any qualification and you don't require that you have to become intellectual man or an administrator or a productive man or... Never mind whatever you are. You be situated in your place, but you try to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. The result will be that your heart, the dust on the mirror of your heart, will be gradually cleansed. And when it is completely cleansed, then you will understand that you are not this body. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12].

*All the problems of our life, whatever you may say, social, political, religious and whatever... There are so many problems. The whole material world is full of problems. These problems are compared just like blazing fire in the forest. Just like in the forest, there is fire, nobody can check. Although nobody goes to the forest to set fire, it takes automatically. Similarly, in this material existence of life, we do not want any problem, but problems are created. Just like automatically there is fire in the forest without our endeavor, similarly, material problems are created automatically by our dealings, by our behavior. So if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the first result will be that you will understand your real constitutional position, for which many great mystics, sages and saints are meditating, "What I am?" That, I mean to say, procedure of spiritual realization will be the first installment, your profit. You'll understand that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am not matter, I am spirit soul." And as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, as soon as one is self-realized, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I am part and parcel of the Absolute Truth." This realization is called Brahman realization. And as soon as you come to the platform of Brahman realization, then the result will be brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. You'll be joyful. You'll be free of all anxieties. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. That is the sign. It is not that simply... I may advertise that I am self-realized, but my behavior will show whether I am self-realized or not. Everything is stated in the Vedic literature, that a brahma-bhūtaḥ person, a self-realized person, the symptom of the self-realized person is that he is joyful. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Without any anxieties. This materialistic life means full of anxiety always. And spiritual life means without this anxiety. Just the opposite. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. And what is the symptom of being joyful? That is also stated: na śocati na kāṅkṣati. There is no lamentation for loss, and there is no hankering for gain. Everyone in this material world is hankering after some gain. And if you have got some gain, if it is lost, then he's lamenting, "Oh, I have lost so much." So these two business... Hankering, when we do not possess, we hanker. And when we possess, it is lost. Because everything... The material waves are such that whatever we possess, we shall lose it. We have got this nice body, one day we have to lose it. Everything. You possess and lose, possess and lose. Therefore the..., punaḥ punaś car..., the same thing repeatedly: gaining and losing, and lamenting and hankering, lamenting and hankering. This is the position of material life.

*So in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you come to that platform, prasanna, joyfulness, then samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. The next stage is that you look everyone on the same level. There is no distinction between black and white or the Indian or American or Russian or this and that. No. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. One who is actually learned, he sees everyone on the same level of spiritual understanding. So brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. This is the stage of acquiring Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



Then he comes to the standard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when he can begin his duties in transcendental lovings towards the Absolute Truth. And when we begin that activity, that spiritual activity, then we can understand, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55], what is God. These are the stages. We cannot understand by speculative method. God is unlimited, and we are very limited. Our knowledge is limited because our senses, the instruments by which we acquire knowledge, that is imperfect and limited. Just like my eyes. I cannot see perfectly. I cannot see the eyelid. I cannot see the distant place. Although I am very proud that "I want to see face to face," but what you can see? What is your value of your instrument, seeing? That is imperfect. Therefore we cannot get perfect knowledge by these imperfect senses. By sense perception, by direct utilization of our senses, we cannot get perfect knowledge. The perfect knowledge you can get when your senses have been purified to the perfect order. Then you can see.



*So that stage is brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When you are on the brahma-bhūtaḥ, or spiritual, self-realization platform, then your senses are purified and you can see things in two perspectives. And at that stage, you can see God also. You can talk with God also. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. You have... Most of you know the yoga. The yoga system means to see the Supreme Person, or the Absolute Truth, or the Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, within your heart. That is the perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yam... Dhyānāvasthita, by meditation, one can see. So this perfectional stage can be achieved when you are in the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, Brahman realization stage. So Lord Caitanya said that if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the first installment of your gain will be that your heart, which is contaminated now with so many materialistic dust, it will be cleansed. And next stage will be bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. That means you'll realize yourself that "I am not this matter, I am soul. And my relationship with God is this. God is like this." And gradually, you will develop your love for God. You have got that love. Dormant love is there, but because we do not know what is God, because we do not see the beauty of God, because we do not know the mercy of God, therefore our love has been forced or placed in the dog. Instead of God, we have placed our love on dog. So we have to simply change. Our love is distributed in the matter in so many ways. That will not make me happy because I am not matter. I am a spirit soul. I have to transfer my love towards the Supreme Spirit, God, then I'll be happy.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a process by which you can transform your love from matter to God. That's all. You have got love but you are being frustrated. You are being frustrated. You are being baffled. Your love is not placed in the proper place. Therefore we have to make our choice, "Where I shall place my love?" Then I'll be satisfied. That is replied in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktiradhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*Ātmā, self. Everyone is seeking after peacefulness, peacefulness of ātmā, or self. So this is the process recommended. Not recommended, it is the fact, that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo [SB 1.2.6]. In whatever occupation you are situated, doesn't matter. You have to see simply whether by your occupation the Supreme Lord is satisfied, or your love for the Supreme Lord is increasing. That is the test of perfection. And when your love is increased in that way, adhokṣaje ahaituki*-ahaituki means without any cause, without any reason, and apratihatā, without any impediment-then you'll see yayātmā suprasīdati. Your ātmā is fully satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. "My dear Lord, I am now fully satisfied. I have no more any demand." The material world, material life, means simply demands, increasing the demands. That is the modern way of life, increasing artificial demand and being frustrated. That is our life. But if you want satisfaction, not frustration, not bafflement, then increase your love for God. And the process is very simple, recommended in this age. You haven't got to perform any severe austerity, penance, or you have got to go to the forest or Himalayan mountain or you have to do this, that. Nothing. You be situated in your place, whatever you may be. But if you simply chant this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you will gradually develop.



*Your first, the first installment will be that your heart will be cleansed of all material contamination. Then you'll be situated on the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Oh, prasannātmā! Oh, joyfulness! Without being joyful, you cannot understand what is God. If your mind is disturbed always, you cannot meditate, neither you can understand what is God, what you are. It is impossible. Therefore we have to accept any process which can make me joyful. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We have got... Simply we are not chanting by sentiment. We have got enough literature, philosophy, background. It is not that we are sentimentalist. But this is a fact, that if you simply... You do not require to read all this literature. If you can, it is very good, but if you have no time, simply chant these sixteen words, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Make an experiment. We are not charging anything. We are not cheating you, that "Give me some fifty dollars or twenty dollars. I'll give you some secret mantra." No. It is open. You can take. Everyone can take. Everyone. We are chanting. You can chant with us and practice it, and there is no hard and fast rules and regulation. You can chant anyway, anywhere. Whether you are in the college, whether you're on the street, whether you are sleeping, lying, or whatever, you can chant. Because God has given you this tongue and you can chant. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, a dog or cat cannot chant although he has got the tongue. So you have got the facility. By God's mercy you have got this facility to chant the holy name of God. If you think that Kṛṣṇa is Indian God's name, actually it is not Indian God's name. Kṛṣṇa never claims that He's Indian or Hindu. Most of you have read Bhagavad-gītā. He claims everyone as His son. Not only human society*-the animal society, bird society, the beast society, the plant society, the aquatic society, all. Sarva-yoniṣu. Sarva means all. Yoni, yoni means species of life. Everyone, all living entities, Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa must be... If He is God, He must claim that, that "The material nature is their mother and I am their father." So Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Not that... Don't think that Kṛṣṇa is for the Indian or for the Hindus. No. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. For the human being, for the animals-everyone. So if you think that Kṛṣṇa is belonging to some particular country or religion, then you can chant your own way. If in your religion, in your scripture, there is any God's name, you can chant that also. Our only propaganda is that you increase your love of God. And the simple process is to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. There is no charge for it. There is no loss on your part. There is no inconvenience on your part. At any moment, at any place. There is no restriction. So why don't you take advantage of this great boon to the human society?

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not any sectarian movement. It is practically postgraduate movement of all religion. Any religion, they have got some idea of God. But here, we are explaining what is God, how great He is, how you can establish your relationship with Him. These things are there. So any religious person, or any person, without being religious, if anyone joins with us in this saṅkīrtana movement, his life will be sublime. And our method is very simple. We place before you to judge and join with us. That is our request.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question? Yes?

*Student (1): Apparently, there are two parts to this. The first, the kīrtana singing and dancing, to some extent resembles the rock music that appears in the Western world within the last five years. Very notably the Beatles song last year, "Hey Jude," in the second part, is very similar in tune to this. The second, which is quite remote, but there is a connection*-your message is similar in some ways to the message of evangelical or fundamentalist teachers in Christianity, who are taking the name of Jesus Christ...



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Student (1): ...and excluding everything other than complete devotion to Christ. Would you comment on this?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's very nice. We completely agree. We say that chant the holy name of God. The vibration, the sound which you chant, that must be the holy name of God. Then it is all right. It doesn't matter what is the language. Language has nothing, no significance. But this word "Kṛṣṇa," we consider it is transcendental vibration because all great saints and ācāryas, they chanted, especially Lord Caitanya. As I explained from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32]. Kṛṣṇa varṇa, kṛṣṇa varṇayati. Lord Caitanya was always chanting, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." Therefore He is called kṛṣṇa varṇayati, kṛṣṇa-varṇam. Tviṣākṛṣṇam: by complexion He's not black. Kṛṣṇa was blackish, but Lord Caitanya, He was golden colored. So kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam: always associated by followers. Yajñair saṅkīrtana, chanting and dancing with Kṛṣṇa's name. Yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ: this form of the Lord should be worshiped by persons who are intelligent. So if you follow the method, evangelist, that is also very nice, or this method... The business should be that we must realize in this human form of life what is our relationship with God. If we fail to do that, then we are misusing this human form of life.



*In the Garga Upaniṣad it is said, etad viditvā ya prayāti sa brāhmaṇa. Etad aviditvā ya prayāti sa kṛpaṇa. Brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa means broadminded, liberal. So one who... Everyone will die. The cats and dogs and human being, everyone will die. But the Garga Upaniṣad says that if one dies after understanding the science of God, then he is perfect. He is brāhmaṇa. His life is broader, mahātmā. And if one dies without understanding this, he is kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser. Miser means... Suppose if you have got millions of dollars. If you cannot utilize it, if you simply waste it, then you are kṛpaṇa, miser. You do not know how to spend money. Similarly, we have got this body which is worth..., not millions*-trillions and more than that, because we can realize in this life what is our relationship with God, what is God. We can understand. But if we don't do that, simply we waste our time in sense gratification, then we are kṛpaṇa, miser. We are losing our opportunity. So these things are there. So in whatever way you like, either this evangelistic way or this way or that way, try to understand what is God and what is your relationship with God and try to invoke your dormant love of God. Then your life will be perfect. That is our mission. If you have got your own method, that's all right. You take it. Otherwise we are giving this method, very simple. You take it. Your life will be sublime. That is our request. Yes?

Student (2): ...question you stated. If (we devote) time trying to figure out our relationship to God, perhaps that takes time away from trying to figure out our relationship with all men. And I think I would anticipate your answer, I think, upon the... You're talking about ātmā, and if one clearly has perception of the reality of their own ātmā, he would also see others as himself. Right? And to know his self and his God through others. But that doesn't really answer. It doesn't mean we'll be able to decrease that condition. A lot of people suffer in this world, and they suffer for pretty indefiable(?) reasons: economic exploitation, racists trying to put structures, militaristic powers. And it seems somehow we might be able to do something to attack those kinds of evils and suffering in the world, other than telling a man to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and the world will be solved.



Prabhupāda: That is automatically solved. If you chant, if you come to this God consciousness, those things will be automatically solved. Just like if you get million dollars, then your fifty dollars' business will be automatically solved.



Student (2): Yeah, I guess that you could believe that.



Prabhupāda: Not believe. Is practical.



Student (2): And I think the reason I don't believe that is because history has told me differently. History has told me that people who have managed to achieve freedom for themselves have not achieved it by doing something like chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And I refer you to...



Prabhupāda: You can show in the history there was chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa? Is there any history?



Student (2): I won't say chanting only Hare Kṛṣṇa, but give you a similar time and place.



Prabhupāda: What is that similar time?



Student (2): Well, in Russia, in the nineteenth century, there were people who were religious, who traveled the countryside chanting the word "Jesus Christ." It was quite prominent then. Tolstoy tells us about it. And I would assume that a similar kind of teaching was given. The only problem I see with that is that I don't think it would solve the very basic human problems.



Prabhupāda: So do you think that Russia has solved their questions? That their problems, all problems are solved?



Student (2): I would say that in 1917 the state of the Russian peasants was fundamentally better by the revolution.



Prabhupāda: Well, the history will repeat itself again. It will be wars again. So do you think by adopting the Russian method, people have become very happy?



Student (2): No.



*Prabhupāda: Then? So we manufacture something. This material world is like that, problematic. That I have already explained. Just like the blazing fire. So the answer is given in the Bhagavad*-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. In this material world the onslaught of the material nature is very, very severe. Nobody can surpass it. In some way or other it will come in a different form. The problem will not be solved. The problem can be solved, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te, when one surrenders unto God, Kṛṣṇa. Then he can surpass this onslaught of material nature. So that is the real remedy. Unfortunately, people does not take that process. But if anyone accepts this process, his problems are solved. That is the fact. That is the fact. But we do not expect that everyone can accept this process. But if anyone can accept this process, at least his personal problems will be solved. But it is the duty of such God conscious persons to distribute the message. If anyone likes, he can take, he can solve his problems. And if he does not take, that business is the own business. What can I do? But any material method, either this Russian method or American method or Indian method, anything, materialistic method, that cannot solve the material problems. That is a fact. If you want to solve all the problems, then you have to invoke your dormant love for God. That is the solution. There is no other solution. Yes.



Student (3): I was wondering how important the choice of words are to the chanting. And if, perhaps, if you just count to ten in your mind or out loud, I thought it might work just as well.



Satsvarūpa: "Could you just count numbers and think about God and that would work just as well? Are the names important?"



Prabhupāda: Count words?



*Satsvarūpa: Could you just count-one, two, three, four*-and that would work just as well.



Prabhupāda: Well, that is not possible, of course, but as soon as stop counting, you can chant. (laughter) That's not difficult. Yes?



Student (4): What is consciousness?



*Prabhupāda: Consciousness is very difficult to understand? Now you are talking, and when you don't talk, you lie down. People will say this man has become unconscious. So this is the distinction. When you are in full knowledge of things, that is consciousness. It is not difficult to understand. Sometimes teachers say to the student, "Do it conscientiously, with attention." When our full attention is there, full absorption, full concentration of the mind, that is consciousness. And another way of consciousness is the feeling which is spread all over your body. Just like I pinch over your head or any part of your body, you feel-that is consciousness. But when this body is dead or when you are out of this body, if I chop up your body, there is no consciousness. That is the distinction between consciousness. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the consciousness is stated: avināśi. Avināśi means cannot, never dies. Always living. Avināśi tu tad viddhi. You just try to understand that thing without always living. What is that? Yena sarvam idaṁ tatam*-by which your whole body is spread by air(?). And anywhere of your body, that consciousness is spread. And that substance, consciousness, is always living. When you leave this body this consciousness goes to another body. Just like the air passes, the flavor the air carries from one garden to another place. Similarly, this consciousness will carry you to another body after your death. After you leave this body... Just like we are changing our consciousness also from childhood consciousness to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, and the old age. The consciousness is carrying me although the body is changing. Similarly, when you change this body, the consciousness will carry you to another body. That consciousness is always living. It is never dead. [break] Because they don't take it.



Student (5): Then why are we born without feeling.(?)



Prabhupāda: That's your independence. If you like you can take it. If you don't like, you don't take it. There are so many things. If you like, you take it; if you don't like, you don't take it. There is no enforcement. Every individual soul has got little independence. Not full independence. That can be used properly; that can be misused also. That depends on me. I am the master. So similarly... Just like the government. The government does not force anybody to go to the criminal department, neither government forces anybody to come to the university department. It is your individual liberty. You become criminal or a high standard scholar. [break] ...has to make his choice. He has got the freedom. He may be Kṛṣṇa conscious or he may be material conscious. If he's material conscious, he'll never be happy. If he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll be always happy. Now it is up to you whether to accept this or that.



Student (6): How would you say the chant in English?



Prabhupāda: Chant in English?



Student (6): Yes. How would you say it in English?



Devotee: He wants a translation in English.



Prabhupāda: So there are many boys. You can have the translation. We have got our translation in many literatures. In our paper, Back to Godhead, in many books. We have got many books. So translation is there. We are simply publishing so many English translation. So there is no scarcity of translation. Yes?



Student (7): Are you happy always in reflection?(?)



Prabhupāda: What do you think? What do you think? I'm happy or not happy? What is your opinion? And if I say false, why do you believe? If I say falsely, "I am happy," will you believe it? If I say falsely, "I am happy," will you take it?



Student (7): That I don't know.



Prabhupāda: Yes?



Student (6): If I can rephrase that, if you were American, how would you say the chant? In other words, I know it has many translations, but what would it mean to you? How would you say it in English?



Prabhupāda: English, the translation... What is that?



Jadurāṇī: These words are Sanskrit. He wants to know if they were English what would they be?



Prabhupāda: Well, proper names cannot be translated. You know that. Suppose if your name is John, and if I come from India I cannot translate into Indian language. I have to speak "John." You see? Just like people say "Swami Bhaktivedanta." Is there any translation, Bhaktivedanta Swami? Proper noun is never translated. That everyone knows. But the meaning can be translated. So we have got translation of the meaning, what is this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means. But so far chanting is concerned, that if I call you, you are American boy, Mr. John, so I'll have to call you Mr. John. I cannot translate into Sanskrit and call you. Yes?



Student (8): How important is your diet?



Prabhupāda: Oh, that is a very important thing. If you read Dr. George Bernard Shaw's book, You Are What You Eat, you see. So if you eat like human being, then you can increase your qualities of human being. If you eat like cats and dogs, you increase the quality of cats and dogs. That's all. So we must have discrimination what to eat. That is there in the human world. Eating is there, but everything eatable. Even stool is eatable by a certain kind of animal, but that does not mean that stool has to be eaten by human being. Human being must have discretion what kind of food will be just suitable for my health, for my intelligence, for my brain. So these things are prescribed. If we eat things which are in goodness... They are prescribed in the Vedic literature that wheat, rice, sugar, milk product, vegetables, fruits, these things are in goodness. So if you want to increase your quality of goodness, that is required for God realization. Unless you are situated in the quality of goodness, you cannot be promoted to the higher platform. So your eating should be arranged within this group: rice, wheat, sugar, milk product, vegetables, and fruits. In your country you have got enough nice grains, nice fruits, enough supply of milk, butter. So there is no question of accepting any other food. You can accept foodstuff within this group and become healthy and good brain, good conscience. You can engage yourself in God consciousness. That is possible. So therefore "Discrimination is the best part of valor." We should discriminate what kind of food we should eat. We cannot eat anything and everything. That discrimination must be there. Yes?



Student (8): Would it not be better if intellectual (indistinct) and would it not be better for them to leave the father and devote their status, instead, to the Lord?(?)



Prabhupāda: Of course, in the beginning I said that there is no question of changing your position. In whatever position you are, either you are a student or a lawyer or something else, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize yourself. We don't recommend that you change your position. That is not our recommendation. But if you can (be) fully devoted in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is very nice. But don't do it whimsically. There will be a mature platform when you can do that. Just like I was a family man, I was living with my family. I have got my wife, sons, daughters, grandchildren. So in this old age I left them. So I'm not in difficulty although I am alone. I came in your country alone. That's a long history. So that dependence on God, when you actually develop, then you can give up everything, depend only on God. But don't do it by whimsically. No. That will not do. You stay in your position, realize yourself, then time will come when God will dictate you, "You can do..., become free from all obligation." So please join with us in the kīrtana. (kīrtana) (end)





691228LE.BOS

Lecture to International Student Society

-

Boston, December 28, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...for your participating with us in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I understand that your, this society is known as International Student Society? Yes. There are many other international societies. There are international United Nations also. The idea is very nice, but we should try to understand-internationally or universally-what is the central idea. Just like if you throw a stone in the middle of water, it expands. It becomes, the circle expands, and the circle goes to the limit of the bank of the water. That is the way. The vibration, sound vibration also, radio message also. Similarly, the circle increases and you capture the waves and you understand. Similarly, international feeling can be extended also. In the beginning of our life, just like a child, anna-brahman: everything he wants to eat. A small child, whatever he captures he wants to eat. Personal interest. Then, when the child grows, he tries to participate with his other brothers and sisters: "All right. You also take little." This is increasing the feeling of fellowship. Then he grows again, he feels for his father, parents, society, then community, country, and at last, international. Expansion. But in such feelings, unless the center is right, that expansion of feeling, universally or internationally or nationally even, that is not perfect. That is not perfect. Take, for example, internationally. In your country, what is the meaning of national? National means one who has taken birth in that particular country. Is that all right? National? You feel for another American because he is born in this country. Or any other country, Indian. That national feeling, that is called national feeling. You feel for your countrymen. You sacrifice your life for your country. But there is defect. What is that defect? If this is the definition*-that a living entity or a person born in that country, he is a national-then why not the animals? They are also born in that country. But we are not expanding our feelings beyond this human society. We don't think animals are national assets. Animals are sent to the slaughterhouse. So this is because the center of national feeling or international feeling is losing. The center is not fixed up. If the center is right, then you can make circle from that center, any number of circles, they'll never overlap. They'll be growing, growing, growing. They'll not interact with one another if the center is all right.



*So everyone is feeling nationally or internationally, but the center is missing. Therefore your feeling, your international feeling, my international feeling, your national feeling, my national feeling, they are overlapping. So we have to find out the center. Then you expand your circle, it will not, I mean to say, overlap or counteract. It will go on. That center is Kṛṣṇa. Our society, International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, is teaching to the people of all countries that the center is Kṛṣṇa. You try to think from the central point of Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa philosophy is the Bhagavad*-gītā. I take it for granted that many of you have studied Bhagavad-gītā. In the Seventh Chapter there is a nice verse that,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*You have heard the word mahātmā. That is a Sanskrit word, or Indian word, which is applied to a person whose mind is expanded, whose feelings, the circle of his feelings, is very expanded. He is called mahātmā. Mahā means big or great, and ātmā, ātmā means soul. Who has expanded his soul very wide, he is called mahātmā. So this Bhagavad-gītā gives the definition of the person who has expanded his feeling very wide. Who is that? It is said there, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. We are trying to expand our feeling socially, communally or nationally or internationally or universally or some way or other. This is going on. We try to do it. That is our natural function, especially in the human form of life-expanded consciousness, broader consciousness. We try, we try to do some service to the whole humanity, to society, to the country. That is expanded consciousness. But Bhagavad-gītā says that bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Bahu means many, and janma means birth. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: at the end of. At the end of many, many births. Perhaps you know that we believe the theory-not theory, the fact*-of transmigration of soul. We are changing bodies one after another. There are 8,400,000's of different species of life, and we are evolving. And at last we come to this form, human form of life. This is also called bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte.



*In the Bhāgavata there is a verse. It is said there, labdhvā su*-durlabham idam. Idam. Idam means "this." This body, labdhvā, you have got it. Labdhvā su-durlabham idam. Su-durlabham means it is very rare. This is not very cheap. The body of cats and dogs or animals, they are cheap, but this is not very cheap. Su-durlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janman... Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambha-vānte. After many, many births, at least, 8,000,000 births of different species of life, we get this human form of life. It is stated in the Bhāgavata, and similarly, all Vedic literatures, they corroborate one another. It is... The person who can understand, he doesn't find any contradiction. The same statement is there in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. So this human form of life is obtained after many, many births of lower animal or other than human form of life. But even in this human form of life also, if one is cultivating that knowledge to find out the central point, what is the central point, then that also requires he gets many, many births in human form of life also. But he has to find out that central point. That central point is there, Kṛṣṇa is saying, that bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Jñānavan means who has actually acquired knowledge. Jñānavān. Jñāna means knowledge, and vān means one who possesses. One who possesses actual knowledge, after... We are cultivating knowledge. If we are actually cultivating knowledge, spiritual knowledge, not in one life but many many lives, then when we actually become on the highest platform of knowledge, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān, then Kṛṣṇa says, mam prapadyate: "He comes and surrenders unto Me, Kṛṣṇa," or God. When I speak "Kṛṣṇa," "Kṛṣṇa" means the Supreme Lord, the all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead. So bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Surrenders. Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. This word mahātmā is there, because after cultivating knowledge many, many births, he has expanded himself to be very great. God is great, and His devotee who expands up to the point of God, he is also called great. His ātmā is also great. Mahātmā. But He says, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. That sort of mahātmā, or great soul, is very rare to be seen. Su-durlabhaḥ. Su-durlabhaḥ. Su means very, and durlabhaḥ means rare. Very rare.

*So this is the definition we get from Bhagavad*-gītā, that we are expanding our feelings of love, different types of love-love of the country, love of the nation, love of the society, love of the community, love of the family, or love of the cats and dogs. Love is there. Love is there, but we are expanding it according to our expansion of perfect knowledge. That perfect knowledge comes to exist when we come to the point of loving Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. But it is very difficult to find out such person who has developed love of Kṛṣṇa. But that is the aim of life. That is the aim of all activities. Similarly, in the Bhāgavata, there is another verse. It is said that,

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*It is said that you are doing your duty according to your position. Everyone is doing. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ dharmaḥ. Dharma means occupational duties. Everyone has got duty. A student has a duty, or a householder has got some duty, a sannyāsī has got some duty, a brahmacārī has got duty. So there are different types of duties according to different occupation or profession. But Bhāgavata says that you can perform your duties very nicely, very accurately, but if by performing your duties you do not come to the understanding of Kṛṣṇa, or God, then whatever you have done very nicely, śrama eva hi kevalam: it is simply laboring. Simply laboring. But if you want to perfection, come to the point of perfection, then that is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, as I said, that bahūnāṁ janmanām, after discharging duties very nicely, very accurately, very faithfully, if one comes to the point that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], then you should understand that your feelings of love or international feeling or national feeling has actually expanded. That is expanded.(?) That is real national feeling.



*And what is the symptom? A man says, "Yes, I have expanded very widely my feelings of love." No. There are some symptoms how you are feeling, how you are... That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Paṇḍita means learned. Sama-darśinaḥ.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*A paṇḍita, if one has actually elevated to that stage of perfect wisdom, then he is sama*-darśinaḥ, that actually sama... How sama-darśinaḥ? Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe. A brāhmaṇa, according to Vedic culture, a brāhmaṇa is considered... Brāhmaṇa means vidyā-vinaya-sampanne. He is very gentle and very learned. That is the first qualification of brāhmaṇa. Not by birth but by qualification. Gentle and learned. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi, brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Because his vision is no more on the platform of this body. Sama-darśinaḥ. He sees a learned brāhmaṇa is also a spirit soul, and a dog is also a spirit soul, an elephant is also a spirit soul, or a low-born man, he is also spirit soul. Beginning from the high-born brāhmaṇa up to the caṇḍāla, there are social stages in the human society. But if a man is really learned, he sees everyone, every living entity, on the same level. That is the stage of learning.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca...

[Bg. 5.18]



*Śva*-pāk means the dog-eaters. In India there are many types of flesh eaters. Not higher caste, amongst the lower grade. But anyone who eats the flesh of dog, he is called caṇḍāla, lowest of the mankind. But here Bhagavad-gītā says even if he is caṇḍāla, the paṇḍitaḥ, he sees equally like the brāhmaṇa because he sees the spirit soul.



*So our point is that if we actually want to expand this international feeling, then we must find out the real center. That center is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, or God, I have already explained. Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad-gītā... You'll please always remember that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means placing Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Whatever I am speaking, it is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately, Bhagavad-gītā has been misinterpreted by so many commentators that people have misunderstood the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually, Bhagavad-gītā means to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and we are trying to do that. So in that Bhagavad-gītā, as Kṛṣṇa has given the definition of mahātmā, broadminded... So what is that broadminded? He says next verse, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā, who is actually wise and broadminded, he is no more within the spell of this material energy. He is under the shelter or protection of spiritual energy. Everything, just try to understand. Whatever we are seeing, they are different energies of God. Parāsya brāhmaṇa śaktir..., akhilaṁ jagat. Whatever we are experiencing, they are all different energies of the Supreme Lord, parāsya śaktir. In the Vedic literature, Upaniṣad, it is said, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. The Supreme Absolute Truth has many varieties of energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. And the energies are acting so nicely that it appears that it is being automatically, nicely done. Just like a flower is (blooming). The energy of God is acting there, but we are seeing that it has automatically become so beautiful and blooming. No. That is energy. That is the vision how we can see God. How we can see Kṛṣṇa? In the Fourth Chapter you'll find, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: [Bg. 7.8] "My dear Kaunteya, Arjuna, you, if you try to understand Me, if you want to make your soul broader to understand Me, try to understand Me-raso 'ham apsu kaunteya*-I am the taste, the sweet taste in the water." So every day we are drinking water. There is nobody here who does not drink water. So when you drink water and you feel satisfaction, that satisfaction is Kṛṣṇa. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Nobody can escape seeing the light of the sun, of the moon. Śaśi, śaśi means moon. Sūrya means sun. So Kṛṣṇa says, "That illumination is I am."

*So there is so many list of understanding that God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So when one is fully cognizant of the energies of the Lord, how they are acting... And we have to practice. We take lesson from Bhagavad*-gītā and we practice. You will be able to understand. Then after bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], when you become mature, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, "Oh, Vāsudeva is everything," then you surrender. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That person, who has widened his soul in that way, he is very rare to be seen. And what are the functions of such mahātmā? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā, one who is so broadminded, he is not crooked to be under the spell of this material energy. He is under the protection of the spiritual energy, daivī prakṛti. Prakṛti means nature. This nature is called the material energy. And there is another, spiritual energy. These things are all explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Apareyam. These are aparā. Aparā means inferior energies, material energy. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā. Beyond this inferior energy, there is another, spiritual energy. There are so many verses you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So our propagation is to present Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, without any nonsensical commentation. There is no need of nonsensical commentation. Bhagavad-gītā is as clear as the sunlight. As you do not require to see the sun with another lamp, similarly, you do not (chuckling) require to study Bhagavad-gītā with another commentation of a common man who has no knowledge. Bhagavad-gītā as it is, you should study. Then you will get all this knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: [Bg. 7.19] you become wise and you can understand Kṛṣṇa. Then you surrender. Then you become mahātmā. And what is the function of mahātmā? Mahātmā is under the protection of spiritual energy. And what is the symptom of that protection of spiritual energy? That is also stated,

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

*bhajanty ananya*-manaso...

[Bg. 9.13]



He is always engaged in devotional service of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only symptom. That is mahātmā.



mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

*bhajanty ananya*-manaso

jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam

[Bg. 9.13]



*Does he follow this devotional service blindly? No. Jñātvā. Jñātvā means "knowing perfectly that I am the source of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the source of everything." So these things are there in the Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. It is not possible to explain all the verses. But our request is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to spread the knowledge depicted in the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any nonsensical commentation. Then the human society will profit by it. They are actually not in sound condition of living atmosphere, but if they understand Bhagavad-gītā and if they actually expand their broader outlook, then these questions of social, national, international, all will be automatically solved. There will be no difficulty. And without finding out the center, if we manufacture our own ways... Not to speak of any individual persons, the different nations of the whole world, they are trying to be united. And in your country there is United Nations organization. Unfortunately, instead of becoming one, the flags are increasing. Daily you pass, you'll see another flag is there. Just like in our India, there was one Hindustan. Now (chuckling) there has become another, Pakistan. And sometimes there will be Sikhistan and there will be some-stan. So instead of becoming united, we are being disunited because we are missing the center.



*So my request is that you are all international students, you try to find out the center of any international movement. That international movement does not mean that "My brother is international and I am international. All others, they are nothing." Not like that. Actually, you try to feel internationally. That international feeling will be possible when you find out the center, Kṛṣṇa, as it is in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. When you actually understand Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa philosophy, that will be perfect. And Kṛṣṇa says, in the Thirteenth Chapter, you'll find,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yoni brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ (pitā)

[Bg. 14.4]



*He is claiming that "I am the father of all forms of life." Sarva*-yoniṣu, "all species of life." "The material nature is the mother, and I am the seed-giving father." Just like without father and mother nobody can appear, similarly, in this material world, whoever has come, every one of us, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone, the mother is the material nature. The mother supplies this body. So our, this body is material; *therefore it is the gift of the material mother, material nature. But I, the spirit soul, that I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So if you try to wide your feelings of internationality, please try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. You'll be getting enlightenment, you'll understand what is international feeling. Sarva-yoniṣu. Sarva-yoniṣu means then you will feel international even for the cats and dogs and animals and reptiles. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... These people are manufacturing communism, but in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, we'll find a statement given by Nārada Muni that if in your house there is a snake even, you should give him something to eat. Just see how the feeling. Even there is a snake, what to speak of other animals.



*So these feelings will be enlightened. We cannot be enlightened unless we come to the real point of God, or Kṛṣṇa. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. It is not a new movement, because as I told you that this is based on the principles of Bhagavad*-gītā, and Bhagavad-gītā is not new. At least from historical point of view, it is five thousand years old. And beyond history, pre-history, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Fourth Chapter, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*That means "I first of all spoke to the sun*-god." Now if you take that duration, it will be some millions of years before it was spoken. These things are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So apart from that statement, from historical point of view, since the days of Mahābhārata, yes, Battle of Kurukṣetra... Bhagavad-gītā was spoken in the Battle of Kurukṣetra. From historical point of view, it is five thousand years old. So this Bhagavad-gītā teaching is coming from, at least, from five thousand, since five thousand years. So it is older than any other scripture in the world. So you try to understand as it is, without any unnecessary commentary. You do not... There is no use of commentary. The words are sufficient to give you enlightenment, but unfortunately, people take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā, and they try to impress under the shelter of Bhagavad-gītā their own philosophy or own idea. That is useless. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is; *then you will get this entitlement, enlightenment, that Kṛṣṇa is the center of all activities. And if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be perfect, all problems will be solved. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. These things are there, and actually, they are happening. Our students are feeling, they are actually doing that. So we shall request you to read this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, so your feelings of international spirit will be perfect and you'll be happy, and wherever you preach this cult, they will be also happy. And that will be very nice thing.



Thank you very much. [break] If there you have any question you can ask. Yes?



Guest: Could you discuss the various levels on the way to bliss consciousness? What happens to the body and the mind as one approaches bliss consciousness?



Prabhupāda: What is that question?



Satsvarūpa: What are the different levels that you go through on the way to getting bliss consciousness. What happens to the body? What happens to the mind?



*Prabhupāda: We are acting not singly, simply with mind or simply... Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Kāya*-mana-vākya. Whatever we do, we do with our body, mind and words. But this consciousness means if you put your mind in Kṛṣṇa, then your words and body also become Kṛṣṇized. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor [SB 9.4.18]. There was a nice king, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. He was great king. He had to administer a great kingdom, whole world. But he was a great devotee also, although he was very busy. Because it is said, sa vai manaḥ. Manaḥ means mind. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor. He always kept his mind in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. And therefore his mind was always dedicated to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. He could not speak anything but Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇa. So the whole process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is transferring the business from matter to spirit, or Kṛṣṇa. There is a nice definition how to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Nārada-pañcarātra. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If we become freed from all these designations... "I am American," this is a designation. "I am Indian," this is a designation. I am not Indian, you are not American. We are all parts and parcel of the Supreme. This is only dress. It does not mean because I am in this saffron colored dress and you are in black coat or green coat, there is difference between you and me. We are all human beings. Similarly, we have to understand that this body is our dress only. Because we have got a different dress, a black dress or white dress or Indian dress or American dress, that does not mean we are different. When we can feel in that way, when we are trained in that way, that is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. He is freed from all designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam. That time he becomes purified, nirmalam. So long I have got identification that "I am this," "I am that," "I am that..." Simply when I shall understand that "I am part and parcel of God," that means, that status of mind is called nirmalam, without any contamination. And when you are in that status of life... That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Brahma-bhūtaḥ means self-realization. And the symptom will be prasannātmā, joyfulness, without any anxiety.



*So there are stages. One has to learn this from authoritative sources. Then it is possible to become... But our movement, this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is so nice that what was possible after many, many births, you can get it within a few weeks. That is a fact. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra as we are doing, then you'll understand. Very quickly your self*-realization, your freedom from designation, your mental concoction, everything will be cleared off, and there will be no more anxiety. So we request everyone. We are not charging anything. We are not saying that "I shall give you some mantra. You pay me fifty dollars and it is private." No. It is open, without any charge. Anyone can. These boys, American boys and girls, they are chanting. Similarly, you can also chant. There is none Indian, but they are nicely chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You can also chant. There is no fee. You just make an experiment on how you become free from this designation. So our request is that everything will be complete if you take to this chanting: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And there is no very strict rules, regulation. You can chant anywhere, either in this room or outside the room or on the road, street, bus. Wherever you find opportunity, you chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result.

So this is a process of purification. When we actually purify our, this material contamination and designation, we, I mean to say, raised, we are promoted to the actual spiritual life. And then, at that time, we shall feel happy and our consciousness will be broader, and everything will be all right.

Indian man: I don't know the equivalent verse in Sanskrit from the *Gītā*, but somewhere it says that..., Kṛṣṇa says, "All roads lead to Me. No matter what one does, no matter what one thinks, no matter what one is involved with, eventually he's evolving towards Me," this Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice, but...



Indian man: In this evolution, is it a natural evolution that you can teach people, you can guide people, you can show them the path, but the actual progress that one would make towards the supreme knowledge, is that a natural evolution or is it...? Can that be influenced by external teaching?



Prabhupāda: No. There is natural, of course...



Indian man: But no one person having no control on it. One may get there sooner than the other, but in reality there may not be any control that one really has on this...



Prabhupāda: No, it requires, it requires. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa is teaching? Why Kṛṣṇa's teaching is required?



Indian man: Kṛṣṇa, in the *Gītā* it says the student comes to the teacher.



*Prabhupāda: If it is natural, then why it was needed that Kṛṣṇa would teach Arjuna? It is not natural. You have to select by getting knowledge from superior person. Otherwise there is no meaning of teaching, Kṛṣṇa's to Arjuna. Arjuna was perplexed. He could not understand whether he should fight or not. So that is the position of everyone. Everyone is perplexed. He requires a guidance like Kṛṣṇa. Then you can find out the... It is not natural. Natural means up to the animal life it is natural. Then come to the human form of life. Then it is discretion. As you like, you make your choice. If you like Kṛṣṇa, you can go to Kṛṣṇa. If you like something else, you can go there. That is your discretion. Everyone has got independence, little independence. Kṛṣṇa says at the end of Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Just you surrender unto Me, giving up everything." If it is natural, then why He should say, "You should do this"? It is not natural. One has to learn it. Therefore he requires a spiritual master like Kṛṣṇa or His representative. But he has got the potency to accept it. And because he has got little independence, he can reject it. So it is not natural evolution. You have to accept the principle as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why it is said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]? If it is actually evolutionary, then why there is dharmasya glānir? Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham: "As soon as there is discrepancies in the discharge of real duties, I appear." So it is natural. If we keep ourself in natural life, it is natural. But because we are developed consciousness, we do not keep in natural life. We accept so many unnatural things. Therefore our knowledge becomes covered by unnatural material nature. So that has to be cleared by superior instruction. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Therefore we have to take; *voluntarily we have to accept. Just like a man who lives naturally, he never gets disease. But one who lives... Just like you don't find any disease amongst the animals. But amongst the human beings, oh, there are so many medical science, so many things. Why? They live unnaturally. So if you live naturally there is natural evolution, but if you block the natural course, then how you can do it? If you lit fire and let it go, it will grow. But if you pour water in it, how it will grow? So in the human form of life we do not go according to natural intuition. Just like amongst the animals, amongst the birds you'll see. Take the pigeons. You give them some peas*-they will eat. But if you give them some particles of meat, they'll not eat because they are living natural life. A tiger, he will not accept. You give him nice foodstuff, prepare your vegetables, he'll not accept. So natural life evolves up to the animal life. But when you come to the human form of life you have got developed consciousness, and instead of using your intelligence and consciousness for further develop naturally, you put unnatural impediments; therefore you are covered. That is called yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānam [Bg. 4.7]. Therefore you require instruction of Kṛṣṇa.



*Guest: One of the major criticisms today of most religions are their irrelevance to tackling the social problems or immediate external problems. You talked about things beyond the self. In the Bhagavad*-gītā I think you have references such as Arjuna being told not to become attached to the fruit of his actions, but act. Can you give us some idea of, more specific idea, of the principles which would guide one's action while trying to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



*Prabhupāda: That principle is stated as the ultimate instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We have got two kinds of religion. One is called, what is called, pravṛtti. Pravṛtti means we are inclined, because we have got this material body, we are inclined to material activities. That is called pravṛtti-mārga. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur [Bg. 3.42]. This body means senses. So because so long we are absorbed in this bodily concept of life, then we try to give comforts to the senses, sense gratification. This is one stage. So dharma means occupation. People are engaged in various types of occupational duties for sense gratification. Sometimes in religion they say you'll go to heaven. What is that heaven? That is also sense gratification. You'll live so long years, you'll have so many beautiful wives and so many things, so many things. All flowery language. What is the basic? Sense gratification. That's all. This is one way. Another way is nivṛtti-mārga. When one has seen perfectly that "This process of sense gratification cannot give me actual happiness," then they began to give it up. Just like the Māyāvādī philosophy. They say brahma-satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This world is false." Just like in your country, a section of youngsters, they're disgusted with this materialistic way of life. They have taken to the hippies' path. Why? It does not give satisfaction, but they do not know the right way. They have taken a wrong way, hippies. So this is called accepting and rejecting. So Kṛṣṇa says, "You have to give up all this nonsense accepting and rejecting. You have to take to Me, then you'll be happy." Sarva-dharmān. Sarva-dharmān means some religious occupation is for sense gratification and some religious occupation is rejection of this material world. So we have to give up both these, the acceptance and rejection. We have to accept the Kṛṣṇa's path, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Surrender unto Me." Then we'll be happy.



Guest: I'd like to just digress on that. Arjuna had a very difficult problem with whether to go into combat or not. Today...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. He accepted Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's path, surrender. Kṛṣṇa wanted that "You must fight." So in the beginning he did not like to fight, but when he surrendered... Kṛṣṇa asked him, "My dear Arjuna, I have spoken to you everything. Now what you are going to do?" Now here also Kṛṣṇa is giving independence to Arjuna: "What you are going to do?" Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. "Now whatever you like, you do." He never interferes. And what Arjuna said? Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Oh, I shall do what You are saying. Yes." (laughter) This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. Yes. He changed his decision and he wanted to do as Kṛṣṇa desired. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. He remained the same military man, but he changed his consciousness. He perfected. Arjuna, after learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness or teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā, he did not go away from the battlefield, but he sternly fought the fight because he knew that "Kṛṣṇa wants it. All right." Kariṣye vacanam. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So when we take to this conclusion, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73], "Kṛṣṇa whatever You want, I shall do," that is perfection.



Guest: Under what conditions would Kṛṣṇa sanction violence?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Satsvarūpa: Under what conditions would Kṛṣṇa sanction violence?



*Prabhupāda: Violence? Kṛṣṇa does not sanction violence, but if there is absolute necessity, then violence is required. Yes. Kṛṣṇa wanted to mitigate the misunderstanding of two groups of cousin*-brothers. So Kṛṣṇa personally induced, "All right, they are, your brothers are kṣatriyas. Kṣatriyas, they cannot do any business or take the profession of a brāhmaṇa. So you give them five villages. They will be satisfied." And they replied, "Oh, what do You call five villages? I cannot spare even that land which can hold the tip of this needle." Then Kṛṣṇa says, "You must fight." So Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's devotees, they are not after fight, but if there is absolute necessity of fight, then they can fight also. Because they are prepared to do anything. Just like in Rāmāyaṇa also, the same subject matter. Hanumān. Hanumān is a devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. So he fought with Rāvaṇa not for his personal self, but Rāma wanted, that "He has kidnapped the queen of Rāma. She must be delivered." And there was fighting. That is the principle. When one does not agree to the religious principle or to the moral principle or any instruction, he is adamant, then there must be fight.



Guest: What are the specific principles that you would use in trying to determine whether it is absolutely necessary to fight? That sounds sort of like "Whenever in doubt, do the right thing." That's a very vague directive. You know that perhaps if somebody comes into your house and threatens your family, then you have to repel them with a certain amount of force, but how would you...



Prabhupāda: These instructions, these directions are there in the Vedic literatures. If somebody, it is said if somebody kidnaps your wife, if somebody sets fire in your house, somebody comes to kill you, then he is understood as aggressor and you can kill him immediately. There is no question of nonviolence. These are śāstric instructions. All right. So I think we can chant again. You can join. (end)





700416LE.LA

Lecture

(Day after Lord Rāma's Appearance Day)

-

Los Angeles, April 16, 1970



*Prabhupāda: ...the incarnation of Godhead in the form of fish, beginning. Then Kūrma avatāra. Kūrma avatāra means the incarnation of God in the form of tortoise. Then Varāha avatāra, the incarnation of Godhead in the form of boar. Then Nṛsiṁha avatāra, incarnation of Godhead, half lion and half man. Then incarnation of Vāmanadeva, dwarf brāhmaṇa. Next incarnation is Paraśurāma, and the next incarnation, Lord Rāmacandra. You have heard the story of Rāmāyaṇa. That is the activities of Lord Rāmacandra. Last, yesterday, we observed the birth ceremony of Lord Rāmacandra. And then incarnation of Balarāma. And the next incarnation is Lord Buddha. And we are awaiting another incarnation at the last stage of this Kali*-yuga. This age is called Kali-yuga.



So about Lord Buddha we have got a nice prayer:

*nindasi yajña*-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ

*sadaya*-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam

*keśava*-dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare



*This song was sung by a great Vaiṣṇava poet, Jayadeva Gosvāmī. So the purport of this verse, Sanskrit verse, is keśava*-dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. "My dear Kṛṣṇa"-Keśava means Kṛṣṇa-"You have assumed the form of Lord Buddha. And what is Your function? Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam." In the Vedic literature there are numerous prescription of sacrifice. And in some of the sacrifices animal sacrifice is also recommended. So that animal sacrifice does not mean to kill the animal. Animal sacrifice means to prove the strength of Vedic hymns so that one old animal is put into the fire and he's given again a new life, renewed life, just to show the potency of the hymns, Vedic hymns. But in this age, Kali-yuga, those sacrifices are forbidden. So Lord Buddha, when he saw that people are sacrificing animals in the name of religious rituals without any pity for them, at that time Lord Buddha appeared. Therefore it is stated, sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam: "My dear Lord, You have appeared as Lord Buddha, just being compassionate to the poor animals." Lord Buddha preached ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ: "The best religious principle is to become nonviolent." He preached this philosophy, that "If somebody hurts you, you feel pain, then why should you kill other animal and put it into painful condition? So don't do these sinful activities." That was his main principle of philosophy that he preached. He was Hindu, kṣatriya, Hindu prince, born in a kṣatriya family, and he was prince, a very luxurious life. So as young man, when he saw an old man and he is traveling, walking with great difficulty, he asked his servant, "What is this? Why this man is walking in this way?" He was explained that "This is old age, and in old age everyone has to become like this." So he at once left home and sat down in Gayapradesh, a province in Bihar in India. And he began to meditate how to make solution of this old age.



*So there are four problems. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is mentioned that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. If you are actually intelligent, then you must keep these four problems before you. Do not think that the problems of life are solved by material advancement. Do not think that by building, constructing skyscraper houses, the problems of life are solved. No. The problems of life are these four principles: birth, death, old age and disease. If you cannot solve these problems, then your problems of life remain the same. The solution of the problems... Just like our bodily demands, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyam etat paśubhiḥ narāṇām. The problems of eating, problems of sleeping, problems of defending and problems of mating, or sex life, these problems are there in the animal life or amongst the living entities lower than the human beings. But those problems are solved automatically by laws of nature. The birds, beasts, they are also eating. They have no economic problem. They are also sleeping, and they are having their mates and sex life. And they are also defending in their own way. Human form of life, the most developed consciousness, intelligence, if we are also busy in solving these problems of life, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, then we are not very much advanced than the animals, because they have got these problems and they are trying to solve them. So what advancement we have made, we human beings? We claim to be superior, to possess superior consciousness, and how we are utilizing our consciousness and superior intelligence? Simply just like animals. That requires meditation. That requires meditation, what is actually the problem.

*So the meditation means, "What I am?" If you think, meditate, that "Am I this body?" then you'll come to understand that "I am not this body." If you think... Just to see, see your hand, "Am I this hand? Am I this finger? Am I this leg? Am I this body? Am I this head?" Every point you analyze, you'll say, "It is my hand, it is my finger, it is my head, it is my..." Everything "mine." And where is "I"? That you have to find out by meditation, where is "I." That is answered in the Bhagavad*-gītā. How it is answered? It is said that avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. One thing, avināśi; *and another, vināśi. Avināśi means eternal, and vināśi means perishable. So this body is perishable, everyone knows. Either it is young body or old body or child's body or boy's body*-anyone's body-today, tomorrow or one hundred years after or fifty years after, it is perishable. There is no doubt about it. But what is that thing imperishable? That imperishable is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, yena sarvam idaṁ tatam: "That thing is imperishable which is spread all over your body." That is very easy to understand. What is that? If you pinch your body, any part of your body, you feel pain. That means your consciousness. Your consciousness is imperishable. The body is changing. When you took your birth from the mother's womb you were a small child. But perhaps you may remember your childhood activities. The consciousness is the same, but the body has changed. The body has changed. If you have got sharp memory you can remember so many things of your past life, and that means the consciousness is the same but body is changing. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



Asmin dehe, in this body, there is one thing which is the proprietor of the body. And that proprietor of the body, due to the presence of the proprietor of the body, the body is changing from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age. And when it is too old, when it is not useful any more, you have to change another body, that is called death. So dhīras tatra na muhyati. One who is intelligent, one who is in the knowledge, he is not bewildered. He sees that every second, every moment, the body is changing, and the last phase of change is called death.



*So these answers are there in the Bhagavad*-gītā. The problems of life is that how to stop these changes of body. Because it has been spoken that that thing which is not changing, unchangeable, that is soul and eternal. Avināśi tu tad viddhi. That is eternal. Now, if there is any possibility of getting eternal body also? Yes, there is possibility. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, how you can get eternal, blissful, all-knowledge body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. This body is not eternal, neither it is blissful, neither it is full of knowledge. It is full of ignorance, it is temporary, and always miserable. And if you say, "Now we are very happily living," that is māyā, that is illusion. Lord Buddha's teaching is that he was prince and there was no want in his life. He was luxuriously living. But he left home for meditation. Therefore he understood that "I am not living comfortably." This understanding, when we can understand that this life, this material life, is not at all comfortable, it is full of misery, that is called buddha life, intelligent. Buddha means intelligent. And if we are thinking that "I am living very comfortably. I am very happy," that is called māyā, illusion. Actually, we are always in miserable condition. In the Vedic language the miserable conditions have been described in three ways: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, and adhidaivika, miseries due to the condition of this body and due to the condition of the mind. Sometimes you feel headache. This is due to the body, gross body. And sometimes you feel morose. This is due to the mind; *the mind is not in quite order. Similarly... This is called adhyātmika. Then adhibhautika*-misery inflicted by others, other living entities, some of your enemies. Just like somebody murders somebody. This is misery inflicted by other living entity. The mosquito bite, the bug bite, or the tiger attacks you. So many living entities there are, they're always busy to inflict misery. This is called adhibhautika. And there is another misery, which is called adhidaivika, nature's disturbance. All of a sudden there is earthquake, there is famine, there is pestilence. So many, in which you have to control. In every misery, there is no control. Ultimately, all the miseries are summarized in four things: the misery of birth... We do not... We have forgotten how much miserable condition we passed during our stay in the womb of mother, in a suffocated condition. You just imagine. Some of you might have seen the picture how the child remains within the womb of the mother. It is air-tight packed. And there are many germs who are biting the delicate skin of the child. And when the child is little grown up, at seven months, it feels too much pain. Therefore the mother can feel that the child is moving. It wants to come out, and prays... One who is fortunate, he can pray to God, "Please give me relief from this condition. This time I shall try my best not to come again in this position of life." So there is severe pain of birth. Similarly, there is severe pain during death. And for disease and old age, everyone has got experience. When you are diseased, simple, if you have got some headache... So these miseries are there always. If we forget and if we think that we are living very comfortably, this is called illusion.

*So we have to prepare for eternal life, blissful life, and life full of knowledge. If we do not do that, then our this human form of life is missing, is misused. That is the philosophy not only of Lord Buddha, but Lord Caitanya, Śaṅkarācārya, or Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone you take, nobody will recommend that you make your plan and live in this material world very happily. Nobody has recommended. Everyone has said that this life is the preparation stage of your next best life. If you do not believe in that, if you think that this life you can make this world happy by arrangement, by scientific advancement, that is not possible. That is not possible. It is plainly and very straightly said in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*It is very difficult to surmount the stringent laws of material nature. It is not possible. If you surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then it is possible. So this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is very scientific movement. It is based on authentic scriptures and experience and recommended by personalities like Lord Caitanya, Rāmānujācārya, and many stalwart scholars and devotees. So we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means the teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā in practical demonstration of life. So we are requesting you to study this movement. And it is very easy. It is..., you do not require any very big qualification to understand this movement. Anyone, even a child, can take part in this movement. We have got practical experience. When we chant, even children, they also take, they also chant, they also dance.



So we request you that on this great auspicious day of Lord Buddha's birthday, there should be... Lord Buddha laid down the basic principle of meditation, that people should not forget the ultimate goal of life; *they should meditate upon what is the mission of my life, what is the end of my life. Not that just like animals we shall spoil our life simply by eating, sleeping or sex life or so*-called defending. We may discover so many defending instruments or weapons, but there is no defense from the cruel hands of death. However you may be advanced in manufacturing so many nice things, you cannot manufacture anything which can save you from death or from disease or from old age. These primary principles of life should be understood, and if there is any possibility to make a solution of these four things, then it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā,

mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*The Lord says that "One who comes to Me," mām upetya, "he hasn't got to come back to this condition of miserable life." Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. And if anyone agrees, "All right, let it be miserable or pleasant, I don't mind. I want to remain here..." Just like there are many scholars and many new doc..., degrees holder, they say that "We want to remain in this world happy." But who is going to allow you to remain in this world? You'll not be allowed. Even if you agree that "In spite of all miserable conditions, I shall be happy to live in this world," but the nature will not allow you to live. Immediately, as soon as there is call that "You have to leave this place immediately..." "Oh, I have manufactured these things so nicely, I have got this good apartment, dress, and my wife and children. How can I leave?" "Yes, you must leave. There is no time. Immediately you leave." So who is going to allow you to live even if you think that "I shall live in spite of all miseries"? Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. This place is full of misery; *at the same time, it is not allowed to remain here permanently. So the solution is, as Bhagavad*-gītā says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ. Mahātmānaḥ means... Mahātmā means the person who is broad-minded. Broad-minded means he is not..., his intelligence is not teeny, that he is satisfied with this material world full of misery. He wants to go to the life of eternal. Just like the Vedas say, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in this darkness. Come out for the light." So one who wants to go out to the light, he is called mahātmā. And in Bhagavad-gītā there are so many instances, so many instructions about this, and the last instruction is,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



The Lord says that "If you surrender unto Me, giving up all other things, then I'll take charge of you." Ma śucaḥ. "There is no question of anxiety."



*So we are teaching the same principles of Bhagavad*-gītā, that "Let us surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." And the process is very easy. You simply chant the name of Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is not a very difficult problem. Anyone, we have seen it practically, although this Hare Kṛṣṇa sound is Sanskrit sound, still, as soon as we chant it... Perhaps I am here the only Indian who can pronounce in Sanskrit, but you are all Americans. You also joined with us. And we have practical experience that everywhere we chant, everyone can join this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we simply request. Our movement is to request persons that "You please chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, and if you go on chanting, you will find the solution of your life very easy." There is no expenditure and there is no loss. Suppose if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-nobody will object. There is no tax. But if there is some gain, why don't you try to achieve it? Just make an experiment for one week. Chant as many times as you can: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And you'll find so many things in..., new in your life. That is practically experienced, and if you try to chant, you'll also feel. And I shall be very glad if you join with this chanting again when we shall perform again, and you shall join with us: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. (end)



701102LE.BOM

Lecture

-

Bombay, November 2, 1970



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Before speaking on the verses already quoted by my disciples, I may be permitted to read a portion of my preface to the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. Those who are my, our life members, they have got the Śrīmad*-Bhavagatam, First Canto, Part One. There you'll find this preface. But for general information as to the need of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I may read a portion of it.



*"We must know the present need of human society. And what is that need? Human society is no longer bounded by geographical limits..." Just like we are traveling all over the world-not only once, but twice, thrice in a year. Because there is facility for traveling the airways, so it has become very easy to go from country to country. And practically, while I am in India, all my disciples are coming here from different parts of the world, every morning. There are facilities now. Therefore the world is now not limited by geographical condition. Anyone can go anywhere very swiftly. You can go to London from Bombay within nine hours. So the world is not bounded anymore by "geographical limits to the particular countries or communities. Human society is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state of human society." There is already the United Nations. In New York, they have constructed a big organization, establishment, United Nations. But actually, when we pass through that road*-I think it is First Avenue-instead of being united, the flags of the nations are increasing. They are becoming disunited. Just like in India, our independence movement was started by Mahatma Gandhijī for uniting all the different section of the people, but actually, the result was that instead of being united, India was partitioned. And the partition has become so poisonous that formerly there was only sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots in some place; now there is organized fighting between Pakistan and Hindustan. So although the tendency is to unite, but in fact, it is not being united; *they are becoming disunited more and more*-not only the Hindus and Muslims. Now in India, there are many provincial questions. Just like in Andhra the fight is going on for separation. Punjab is already separated. So actually, we are not being united. We are being separated. So the ideals of human society "is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state or one human society. The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad-Bhāvagatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, on the entire energy of living beings."

*This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for not only uniting the human society, but also all living entities. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*When one is actually paṇḍita, learned, he becomes sama*-darśī. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne. One learned brāhmaṇa, gentle brāhmaṇa..., vidyā-dadāti namratā. Education means one becomes gentle, sober, cool-headed. Therefore, it is said, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne. When one is learned, advanced in education, he must be very gentle, not haughty. So vidyā-vinaya-sampanne gavi hastini [Bg. 5.18]. And one side, the brāhmaṇa with gentle behavior, learned scholarship, then the other side an animal, say, a cow or a dog or a elephant. And another side, the caṇḍāla, the lowest of the human society. According to Vedic civilization, the dog-eaters are called caṇḍāla. Just like in Hindu society a person is not permitted to eat cow's flesh. Even in human society, although they are eating different types of flesh, one is considered abominable than the other. The cow-eaters are taken as abominable than the goat-eaters, and the dog-eaters are accepted as abominable than the goat-eaters. So although they are eating flesh, they have got some distinction. That is material. But according to Vaiṣṇava philosophy... Because a Vaiṣṇava sees every living entity, not only human being, not only animals, birds and beasts, anyone, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. If one is actually learned and advanced, he sees all living entities on the equal status. Because, the reason is that a learned Vaiṣṇava... Vaiṣṇava, brāhmaṇa-Vaiṣṇava, brāhmaṇa-paṇḍita-these are the designations. A brāhmaṇa cannot be illiterate or rascal. And after becoming brāhmaṇa, one has to become Vaiṣṇava. Brāhmaṇa, generally... Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who knows Brahman, brahma-bhūtaḥ. At the present moment, we are under the bodily concept of life, every one of us. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am sannyāsī," "I am brahmacārī," "I am gṛhastha." There are so many designations. So these designations are pertaining to the body and mind. But when you transcend the bodily and the mental concept of life, then you can become Vaiṣṇava.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati nakāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Mad*-bhaktim. Vaiṣṇava means bhakta, devotee.



*So this Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for devotee. Without becoming devotee one cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. The nondevotees accept Kṛṣṇa (pause-drinks water) as ordinary person. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because Kṛṣṇa comes before you as a human being, therefore, because one has not sufficient knowledge about Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ, therefore such foolish persons accept Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, or a little greater than ordinary human being. But that is not the fact. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the verdict of Vedic instruction. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There is a list of incarnation of God. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Lord Buddha is also accepted as śaktyāveśa avatāra, especially empowered incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. Although Buddhism, we do not accept the philosophy of Buddhism, we Vaiṣṇavas, we do not accept, but we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Lord Buddha appeared being very much compassionate on the matter of animal slaughter. As nowadays, animal slaughter is going on without any check, similarly, sometime before about 2,500 years ago in India, the same condition prevailed. Vedic civilization is very liberal. According to Vedic civilization, the king has to give protection to all the prajās. Prajā means one who has taken birth in his kingdom. Prajāyate. So the animal is also prajā of the government. The trees are also prajā of the government. So formerly, nobody could slaughter an animal, nobody can cut even a tree without reason, without sanction by the Vedic injunctions. At the present moment, in our country... This Bhārata-varṣa is called puṇya-bhūmi. Actually, it is so, because on this land, all the great saintly persons appeared. The incarnation of God, Lord Rāmacandra, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Buddhadeva, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and all the big, big ācāryas-Śaṅkarācārya, Śrī Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī. So... Vyāsadeva. All of them appeared on the sacred land of Bhārata-varṣa. But the present Bhārata-varṣa has degraded so much that we have lost our Vedic culture. We are eating meat, we are eating..., drinking wine, and we are having illicit sex life, and indulging in gambling. This is India's position. It is due to this Kali-yuga. Otherwise the land is puṇya-bhūmi. Because the land is puṇya-bhūmi, therefore in spite of so much fallen conditions, still, you are anxious to hear about Kṛṣṇa. You ladies and gentlemen who have come here, sacrificing your time... Why? Because still the Vedic culture is twinkling within your heart. And you are anxious to hear about Kṛṣṇa, to hear about Śrīmad-Bhavagatam. Even somebody wants to cheat you, but because it is advertised in the name of Bhagavad-gītā, many people flock there.

*So Bhārata*-bhūmi is puṇya-bhūmi, the land of piety. We should understand this. After many pious activities... I have traveled all over the world. They have got enough money, enough material facilities, but still this Vedic culture is different. It is so high. And it is taken still in estimation, in adoration, all over the world. So my request, especially to the Indians, that do not neglect your culture, the Vedic culture. Vedic culture means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other different meaning of Vedic culture. In the Bhagavad-gītā you have seen,

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam...

[Bg. 15.15]



*The Kṛṣṇa is to be understood. Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. Vedic culture... All the Vedas, they're meaning how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva... Vedānta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means the end. There is... Everything has got the ultimate, the supreme summum bonum. The summum bonum of Vedic knowledge, or Vedānta, is Kṛṣṇa. So that Vedānta knowledge, Kṛṣṇa personified, He is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Everyone is searching after God: "Where is God?" "What is God?" "What is the meaning of God?" "What God does?" "What is the power of God?" So many things. So everything He explains in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is God. Sarvasya... In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said... "What is God?" That is the first question of Vedānta-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human life especially meant for inquiring about God. Unfortunately, people, instead of inquiring God, they're very much eager now to inquire about dog. This is the position. There are big, big dog shows in India at the present moment. We have seen many places.



*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to revive the Vedic culture. And the Vedic culture, another name of Vedic culture is sanātana*-dharma. Sanātana means eternal, and dharma means characteristic. Dharma, generally, in English is translated "religion." Religion means a kind of faith: "I believe in such and such faith." "I believe in the Muhammadan faith," "I believe in Christian faith," "I believe in Buddha faith." But actually, dharma does not mean faith. Dharma means characteristic. What is that characteristic? Just like everything, every little item, has got his characteristic. Just like take for example chili: it is very hot. The more the chili is hot, it is good. But if the sugar becomes hot like chili, immediately rejected. But if the chili is hot, you accept: "It is good chili." Similarly, dharma means characteristic of the living entity. That is dharma. The living entity is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātana means eternal. God is eternal, sanātana. We are eternal, sanātana. And there is an eternal place also. This material world is not eternal. The characteristics of this material world is that it appears at a certain date, it continues to stay for a certain period, it develops, then it dwindles and then vanishes. Just like our body, your body, my body: It has got a date of appearance. It is going or changing from one state to another. It will stay for some time. From this body, some by-products will come out, sons and daughters. And then, it will become old, dwindling, diminishing, and then it will vanish. One day it will come, no more this body. Similarly, this material world is also like that. It is a gigantic body only. Whole cosmic manifestation has a date of its creation. It is expanding and it is giving so many by-products. Then time will come which is called devastation. There will be no more rain, and everything will dry up. All living entities will die. Then there will be devastating rainfall; *everything will be absorbed in water, and then vanish. We have got this information from Vedic literature. So this is not sanātana*-dhāma. This is not eternal dhāma. This is temporary. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It comes into existence and it disappears. Therefore it is not sanātana-dhāma. But there is another dhāma, sanātana, eternal. That is also... There is information in the Bhagavad-gītā: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20].

*So there is sanātana*-dhāma, the living entity is sanātana, and God is sanātana. Kṛṣṇa is sanātana. So these three sanātanas... Just like we have our dealings. In Bombay, there are so many businessmen. The place is Bombay, and two parties, business parties, they're dealing. Similarly... But these are all temporary. Our staying in Bombay city is temporary, the dealing is temporary. But there is another place, which is called sanātana-dhāma. That place is eternal, and the parties, namely God and the living entities, both of them eternal, their dealing also eternal. That eternal dealing is called nitya-līlā, eternal pastimes. These descriptions are there in the Vedic saṁhitā, Brahma-saṁhitā.

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*Govinda has dealing. That dealing He represents exactly when He comes, when He appears on this planet, and that dealing is exhibited in Vṛndāvana*-dhāma. You know Vṛndāvana-dhāma. When Kṛṣṇa comes... About forty-three crores of years interval, Kṛṣṇa comes. This estimation, these things are there. Kṛṣṇa comes in one day of Brahmā. The duration of Brahmā's day, you know. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. This means forty-three lakhs of years multiplied by one thousand. That is the duration of one day of Brahmā. And similarly, the duration of his night. So Kṛṣṇa comes in one day during that duration. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He comes here the same place, Vṛndāvana. Therefore Vṛndāvana is held in so much estimation by the devotees. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ. Ārādhyaḥ, worshipable Deity, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who appeared as the son of Mahārāja Nanda, vrajeśa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. Similarly, His place, Vṛndāvana, is also worshipable. Therefore those who are Vaiṣṇavas, especially Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they live in Vṛndāvana in numbers. There are hundreds and thousands of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava still living in Vṛndāvana, because they worship the land, Vṛndāvana, as good as Kṛṣṇa because it is Kṛṣṇa's place.



*So the sanātana*-dhāma... Vṛndāvana is also part of the sanātana-dhāma. The living entity is sanātana, eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. He do not die after destruction of this body. This is the preliminary instruction to understand Vedic knowledge, or spiritual knowledge. If you do not understand the plain fact that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul. I live within this body..." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means the proprietor of the body. Idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya kṣetram ity abhidhīyate [Bg. 13.2]. This śarīra, this body, is called kṣetra, and the person, or the living entity, who is working on this body, he's called kṣetrajña. Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, they have come to this understanding of kṣetra-kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajña means I, you. I know about my body, about the interest of my body. If somebody wants to kill me, I take protection because it is my body, kṣetra. Just like your land. If somebody comes to encroach upon it, you take care. Similarly, this body is kṣetra, the field of activities, and I or you, the proprietor of the body, is kṣetrajña one who knows about the body. But there is another kṣetrajña. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Sarva-kṣetreṣu. Kṛṣṇa is also kṣetrajña. Kṛṣṇa is also sitting. As I am sitting within this body, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also sitting within this body.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



He's directing. Actually, under His instruction, we are taking permission. Just like you do business in your business office establishment, but you have to take permission, license, from the government. It is very easy to understand. Although you are proprietor of the business, you cannot do anything without being permitted by the government. Similarly, although this body is yours, you are the proprietor of this body, you have been given freedom to utilize the body to your best interest, still, you cannot do anything without the permission of Kṛṣṇa.



*That is the subject matter to understand spiritual life. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi... Kṛṣṇa confirms this in Bhagavad*-gītā, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "I am entered in everyone's body." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "Through Me, one remembers and one forgets." Because our capacity is very limited. We forget very soon. Even we do not know two hours before, what we were doing. That is our nature. Therefore Kṛṣṇa helps us from within. Even though we forget, Kṛṣṇa does not forget. That is also there in the Bhagavad-gītā. When Arjuna asked Him, "Kṛṣṇa, You say that You gave instruction on Bhagavad-gītā long, long ago, some forty thousands of millions of years ago to sun-god. How can I believe it, because we are contemporary?" so Kṛṣṇa answered, "Yes, at that time, you were also present, but you have forgotten. I have not forgotten." That is the distinction between ordinary living being and the Supreme Being. The Supreme Being is also nitya. The Supreme Being is also conscious, as we are eternal, nitya, and conscious. That is the statement of the Vedas: nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He's the supreme conscious, He's the Supreme Living Being. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is person. Kṛṣṇa is not imperson. Impersonal feature is one of the partial manifestation of Kṛṣṇa. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Kṛṣṇa is the basis of Brahman, but the original Brahman is Kṛṣṇa, Paraṁ Brahma, as Arjuna accepted-paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12].

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is India's movement because it was started from India. It is meant for everyone because every living entity is sanātana, eternal. It is not that only Indians are eternal. Everyone is eternal. Even the animals, they are also eternal. They have got different body according to their karma. Therefore paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. The paṇḍita does not see the outward dress. If we talk with you, I do not see what kind of dress you have got. I talk with you as gentleman. Similarly, a paṇḍita sees the inner soul. He does not see the outward dress, that "Here is a human being," or "Here is an American," "Here is an Indian," "Here is a brāhmaṇa" or "Here is a elephant" or "dog" or "caṇḍāla," "tree." No. He sees only the spirit soul, the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as one sees the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately remembers Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, one who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even though he sees a tree, immediately he sees Kṛṣṇa. For as soon as he sees the tree, he understands that "This tree is standing here for seven thousands of years, according to his karma, but here is a living entity. And this living entity is the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." And as soon as he remembers Kṛṣṇa, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Just try to understand. Therefore a maha-bhāgavata, advanced devotee, he sees everything, but in everything he sees Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy. That is perfection of life. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ life, realization of Brahman in everything. He understands himself; he understands others. Just like when there is sunrise... In the darkness of night, I cannot see you properly, neither you can see me properly. Suppose if the streets are dark, we cannot see, even we pass very near. Similarly, in darkness of ignorance, we do not know actually what is our position. But as in the daytime, when there is sunrise, you can see the sun, you can see the world, you can see yourself, you can see your friend, you can see the whole world; therefore, we have to see Kṛṣṇa. Then this stage will come.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose, that one can see in terms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "In terms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness" means that every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities, they are My part and parcels." In another place He says,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*So Kṛṣṇa is the ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā. Just like the father gives the bīja. Yoni, the mother is the yoni, and the father is the bīja. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. We get our body by the bīja and yoni. Similarly, this material world is the yoni, mother, and the Kṛṣṇa is the bīja. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. So in this way, different forms of life has come in-8,400,000 species of life. So they're all sanātana. All these living entities are sanātana, but on account of their forgetfulness being diverted, misled by the illusory energy... Māyayā apahṛta jñānāḥ. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā [Bg. 7.15]. Their jñāna, their knowledge, has been taken away by māyā; *therefore they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ. Because they're foolish, rascal, therefore Māyā has taken their knowledge. And therefore, na māṁ prapadyante, "They do not surrender unto Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's last instruction is sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].



*So we shall gradually discuss all these points. The preliminary is that the present moment, although we are trying to be united*-United Nations, united society, united religions, united... So many things, we are trying to be united-communism, united community-but this unity can be possible only when we are actually learned in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*One has to become learned. And the process of learning is not very difficult. It is very easy, especially for the men of this age*-that is this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, is it very difficult for you? God has given you tongue. We are talking so many things, whole day and night. But if we utilize this tongue for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, what is the loss there? That is the injunction of the śāstras: Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached this cult.



*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading this cult of Kṛṣṇa understanding. And we have got very good scheme of communism. As I have stated here in this..., "The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, on the entire energy of the living beings." This is spiritual communism. The Communist cult is concentrating on the state. That is also limited. Not only on the state, there are so many limitations. Actual communism is this:



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Paṇḍitāḥ sama... When we see equal not only the learned brāhmaṇa... The learned brāhmaṇa or the elephant or the cow or the dog or the caṇḍāla*-no matter. Whatever the bodily condition is there, the spiritual condition is the same. Paṇḍitāḥ sama. This samatā, this communism, equality, is perfect. The modern theory of communism, that "I am good, my brother is good, and all bad," this is not communism. When we are..., we can see that "I am good, my brother good, the dog is good, the cat is good," or "the Englishman is good, the every living entity is good," that is perfect. That is perfect communism.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, or the Bhāgavata-dharma, there is ideal communism. You'll find in Śrīmad-Bhagavatam in the Seventh Canto, Nārada Muni is instructing to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira about this communism, that "A gṛhastha, before taking lunch, he must see that every insect, every lizard, every cat, every rat..." [break]...whether a snake in that house must have been fed, must have taken their food. This is so hospitable that the householder, the owner of the house, not only see that his wife, children, servants are well fed, but even the rats, cats, or the insect or the lizard or even the snake has got his food. That is the ideal communism. Because when you are paṇḍita, learned, you cannot distinguish that "This is animal and this is human being." You can treat them differently because their consciousness... But on the basic principle, the living entity, any living entity*-it doesn't matter whether is animal or man-he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot kill one living entity for the satisfaction... (end)



701107LE.BOM

Lecture Excerpt

-

Bombay, November 7, 1970



Prabhupāda: ...śikṣāṣṭaka. Śikṣa means instruction, and aṣṭaka means eight. He has given us eight verses to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and I shall try to explain. Please hear attentively.



*The first instruction is, the Lord says, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. I think I have explained this several times. Again, repeatedly, just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa repeatedly. There is no, I mean to say, tiredsomeness. These boys, they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra twenty-four hours, they will never get tired. They will dance and they will chant. And you also, if you try it you will never get tired. Because it is not material. In the material world if you chant anything, any favorite name for three, four, or ten times, you will get tired. Yes. That's a fact. But because it is not material, if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you will never get tired. The more you chant, your heart will be cleansed from all material dirty things. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And the problems of your life within this material world... These are simple words, but it requires lots of explanation. What is the problem of our life? That you do not know. The modern education never gives enlightenment what is the problem of life. That is indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that those who are educated, advancing in knowledge, they should know what is the problem of life. The problem of life is, as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. One should always feel the inconvenience of taking birth, janma; mṛtyu, inconvenience of death; jarā, inconvenience of old age; *and inconvenience of disease. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi.

So nobody is taking care. When they are diseased they think, "All right, I am diseased. Let me go to the doctor and he will give me some medicine, it will be cured." But he does not take seriously that "I did not want this disease. Why this disease is there? Is it not possible to make me free from the disease?" He never thinks. That means the intelligence is very low grade. Just like animal. Animal is suffering but it has no strength(?). It is brought before the slaughterhouse. If the animal is seeing that another animal is being slaughtered before him, but still he is satisfied with a morsel of grass. He will stand there eating this grass. This is animal. (end)



701110LE.BOM

Lecture Excerpt

-

Bombay, November 10, 1970



Prabhupāda: ...but *Vedas* indicate that He is the supreme eternal, nityo nityānām. There are many eternals, many millions and trillions of eternals, but He is the supreme eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the supreme living creature. He is also living. He is not dead.



Devotee: Haribol.



*Prabhupāda: If He is not living, how this world is working? We have no eyes to see. Bhagavad*-gītā says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My superintendence." Background is God. Under His direction. In the Bible also it is said, "God created this." Yes. That's a fact. Not that there was, there might have been a chunk and it was spread like this and there was sun, there was... No. Actually sa aikṣata. In the Vedas also it is said, sa aikṣata, sa (indistinct). So these are Vedic injunction. But this is fact, God created. So we have to open our eyes to see. That is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is the process of cleansing your heart. If you cleanse your heart, then you will understand what Bible says, what Veda says. It requires to be purified. Just like a man suffering from jaundice, if you give him a piece of candy sugar, "Just taste it," he will say, "Oh, it is very bitter." But candy sugar is bitter? No. It is very sweet. And the medicine for jaundice disease is that sugar, that candy sugar. Modern science also prescribes, and it is prescribed in the Ayur Vedic medicine also. If he takes much quantity of this candy sugar water, then he becomes relieved from jaundice. And when he is relieved, then he says, "Oh, it is very sweet." The same thing. Same thing. So the modern disease of godless civilization, jaundice, can be cured by this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





701211SP.IND

Speech to Mahārāja and Mahārāṇī

and Conversations Before and After

-

Indore, December 11, 1970



Haṁsadūta: The following speech was recorded by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Gosvāmī Mahārāja at the Lal Bhag Palace before Their Highnesses Mahārāja Tukoji Rao Halokar, Mahārāṇī Sarmistha Bhai Halokar, on December 11, 1970 at five p.m. in Indore, Madhya Pradesh, India.



*Prabhupāda: These are not legends. They are fact. Those who are not intelligent, they take it as legend. There are so many descriptions which is not within our experience*-we take it as legend. Now, I gave some gentleman the example that the coconut tree, on the tree there are coconut and there are one-kilo water. Now, how the water is transported there? Where is the pipe? Where is the pumping? Because you have got experience if you want to get water high, you have to pump and you must have pipe. So where is the pipe and where is the pumping machine?



Indian man (1): In the tree.



Prabhupāda: So as you see, actually it is packed up nice, two pounds of water, very nice... And so nicely packed. How it has happened? What is the explanation of the scientists? According to their calculation, there must be pipe. There must be pumping. Somebody must be pumping. Where are all these? Then is it legend? It is fact. Now you explain how it is happening. If you are scientist, you explain how it is happening. Or you do that. Simply observation will not do. You must make experiment. You make a log standing like that, keep anything, and the, it, water must go.



Indian man (1): Keep the water there...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Indian man (1): And distill it.



Prabhupāda: Distill it. (laughter) Then your science will be all right. And where is that, your...? Then what is the value of your science? If you cannot explain which is within your experience and you set aside, "Oh, it is all legend," it is all foolishness. You have no knowledge about that. You admit that. How it is done, you cannot do it, or you have not attained to that standard of knowledge. You say that. Don't say it is legend. That is foolishness. You admit your weakness. If you are as equal, equal in intelligence, then explain how this water is being...



Indian man (1): I had one discussion. So I was given to understand that the pressure in the earth sends.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. You do it practically. Show. (laughter) No explanation will do.



Indian man (1): Only when a living thing goes into the earth, just like trees, then, only then, that thing can happen.



Prabhupāda: So why don't you make a living thing like that?



Indian man (1): The thing was made... That is nature.



Prabhupāda: Then the nature is more intelligent than you. So then there are many intelligent works of nature. You do not know.



Indian man (1): What is in the stars(?) is also nature.



Prabhupāda: So you have no full knowledge of nature. That's it. Then you cannot claim that you are perfect, your knowledge is perfect.



Indian man (1): This example is very interesting, coconut tree.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things. So many things. But there is explanation in the Vedas, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working so wonderfully that it appears that exactly it is done by expert person. Now, take a flower, this flower. How nicely it is painted.



Indian man (1): Comes out of a green thing, red.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. And how perfectly it is made, coloring. The most beautiful. Nobody can suggest that further coloring this way would have been better. No. This is parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī. Automatically it is done. Automatically.



Indian man (1): And seasonal.



Prabhupāda: Seasonal.



Indian man (1): In one season the same thing will be done all the places.



Prabhupāda: All the place. In the season in millions of trees, immediately the same flower is coming out.



Indian man (1): What will bloom in summer...



Prabhupāda: So many things, there is no explanation. They cannot simply say... Bogus humbug things they can present, but there is no clear explanation. Even in our body. Now, these hairs are coming out, and what is the explanation of these rascals? These hairs are coming. You're cutting, and coming. Your energy. You do not know your energy, even, what is that energy by which the hair is coming. It is from your body. That means it is your energy. The energy is within you. You do not know how many hairs are there, although it is put in by your...



Indian man (1): Thousands, thousands of... (laughter)



*Prabhupāda: This is... Abodha*-jāta. Therefore a living entity is called abodha-jāta, "born ignorant, born rascal, born foolish." Abodha-jāta.



*Indian man (1): Abodha*-jāta.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Abodha means no knowledge, and jāta means born. By birth he is fool, and he is claiming, "I am God." By birth he's a fool, and he's claiming, "I am God." Just see. This is illusion. This is the māyā. He cannot... He does not know how the hairs are growing, and he is God. Just see. "I am God." This has become a fashion, dangerous fashion. And these Māyāvādī philosophers, daridra*-nārāyaṇa, this Nārāyaṇa, that Nārāyaṇa... Because Nārāyaṇa is there, therefore he's Nārāyaṇa. Because you are within your coat, therefore you are coat. This is their argument. Because I am in the room, I am room. Is that very sound argument? Because Nārāyaṇa is there, therefore he is Nārāyaṇa. Aiye.



*Mahārāja. (Hindi) Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) [break] ...gopeśa gopikā*-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te. Your Highness, Her Highness, and Ladies and Gentlemen, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has a very intimate relationship with the kṣatriya family. Lord Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Long, long years ago He was speaking in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra that about many, many thousands of millions of years ago He spoke the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān, the predominating deity of the sun globe. And from Vivasvān the sūrya-vaṁśa kṣatriyas are coming. From Vivasvān, Vaivasvata Manu, because Manu is the son of Vivasvān the sun-god. And from Manu, Mahārāja Ikṣvāku descended, and he is the original king in the Raghu-vaṁśa dynasty, wherein Lord Rāmacandra took His birth. Similarly, in the Candra-vaṁśa Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared. So from historical reference we see that when the Supreme Personality of Godhead appears on this earth, in this universe, He takes pleasure to appear in some kṣatriya family. And both Rāmacandra and Bhagavān Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared in kṣatriya families, and they acted as kṣatriya. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. Kṣatriya king has got two functions. One function is to give protection and happiness to the good citizens, and another function is to kill the demons or the disturbing elements in the society. Lord Kṛṣṇa, the original form of Viṣṇu... Viṣṇu has got four hands. In two hands He has got the symbol of conchshell and lotus flower, and the other two hands He carries club and the cakra, sudarśana-cakra. So He wanted that a kṣatriya king like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira should rule over the world. That is the practically basic idea of the whole Mahābhārata and Bhagavad-gītā. So we are very much concerned to preach the message of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is without any malinterpretation. We cannot interpret on the words of God because religion means the words of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. The principles of religion cannot be made by any human being as much as law cannot be made by the citizens. Law is made by the government. That law is accepted. That is obligatory. Similarly, religion means the words of God. Man-made religion has no value. The Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: [SB 1.1.2] "Such cheating process or pseudo religion process is completely eradicated from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." Religion means obedience to the Supreme Lord. And the ruler and the king or the chief of the government is also accepted as representative of Nārāyaṇa.

*There is a very nice incidence in this connection. Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was the prime minister of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then governor of Bengal, Pathan government. So when Sanātana Gosvāmī met Lord Caitanya, he decided to resign the government responsible post and take to this preaching of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Nawab, his most confidential representative was Hussain Shah. He was known as Sākara Mallika. Formerly the brāhmaṇa community was very strict. Because Sanātana Gosvāmī, although he was born in a Sarasvata brāhmaṇa family, he accepted the service of a Muhammadan king, he was rejected from the brāhmaṇa society, so practically he became Muhammadan. His name was Sākara Mallika, name was also changed. But this Sākara Mallika later on decided that he would propagate the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement started by Lord Caitanya. So when he wanted to resign, the Nawab was very much sorry, because he was right*-hand man. He frankly said that "I am engaged with sporting and so many other proclivities, and you are my only representative to rule over the country. If you resign, then I shall be in great danger. I cannot accept your resignation." Then he said, "Your majesty, I am sorry. I cannot proceed any more. I shall retire from the service." Then Nawab said that "Then I shall punish you. I shall immediately arrest you. I cannot let you go." The answer of Sanātana Gosvāmī was that "You are king, representative of Nārāyaṇa, so whatever punishment you give, I shall accept." So that was the Hindu culture, that in spite of being punished by the king, he accepts the king as the representative of Nārāyaṇa. And actually, the Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He is the proprietor of everything. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor of... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Therefore, to govern a planet there is representative of Kṛṣṇa. In the heavenly planets there is Indra. In the sun planet there is Vivasvān. In the Brahmaloka there is Lord Brahmā. Similarly, there are different planets and different representative of Kṛṣṇa.

*So the Vedic civilization accepts the king or the ruler as representative of God, and he is given the... Not only in India. In other countries also, so far we know, in England also the royal family, the king and the queen is given respect as good as to the God. In every country, in Japan also. That was the system all over the world, the relationship between the citizen and the king. Gradually, with the progress of the Kali*-yuga, Mahārāja Parīkṣit was the last kṣatriya king to give protection all over the world. And when he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy, his father regretted that "My dear boy, you have brought a scar amongst the brāhmaṇa society by cursing a king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit." So Mahārāja Parīkṣit was protected by Kṛṣṇa. He could counteract it, but still, he tolerated that punishment or the curse given by a brāhmaṇa boy. He immediately resigned from his royal throne, handing over the charge to his son. And he retired on the bank of the Ganges although he had only seven days' time to live. And during those seven days the whole Bhāgavata was recited. So, I mean to say, the royal family has got very intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And as soon as that was broken, because sometimes it breaks, the religious process declined and the royal power also declined. That is the whole history of the world.

*Now, at the present moment we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement from the Western world so that people may become again happy and come to their original consciousness. And that is being accepted by the Western world. I have got within four years forty-two branches all over the world. In America especially, practically in every principal city I have got a branch. Especially in Los Angeles, and New York we have got the biggest temple. And in England also, London, we have got our temple, 7 Bury Place. When your Highnesses may visit London or New York or Los Angeles-most probably you visit London occasionally*-I invite you to our temple at 7 Bury Place near the British Museum. It is very prominent place. And this girl in front of you, Śrīmatī Yamunā devī, she and her husband Gurudāsa is in charge of the temple. But because I have come to India, they are assisting me. She has seen the Prime Minister also, Indira Gandhi. She is very much impressed with the saṅkīrtana movement. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and patronization by the royal family is very old relationship. So I came especially in Indore to see your holinesses..., er, highnesses, that if you give us some shelter we can immediately open a branch of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I have brought with me forty American, European, Canadian students, and they will be exemplary teachers. You can see from their faces how they are advanced in spiritual consciousness, how they have accepted these principles of Vaiṣṇavism. They are no longer meat-eaters. They don't touch meat, egg, or fish, nothing of the sort. They have given up drinking habit or any kind of intoxications. They do not accept even tea, coffee and cigarette, and they do not take part in gambling, neither they have any illicit sex life. And they are observing ekādaśī days and other Vaiṣṇava festivals like Janmāṣṭamī, Śrī Rāma-navamī, and every temple, they are following the same principles. And gradually we are increasing the number. The Western boys and girls, my students, are all between twenty and thirty years old. You will find none of them more than twenty-five, twenty-six years old. So they are... In Japan also... Here is a Japanese boy also. So the world is taking very serious situation. All over the world they are appreciating. Your Highnesses will be pleased to see how many books we have published. Perhaps you have seen one of them, Kṛṣṇa. That is published in two parts. We have got our magazine, Back to Godhead, in five languages: English, French, German, and Japanese, Hindi, and Bengali. Of course Bengali is going to be out. Hindi is already out. So we are doing these activities, and we have a mind that we may open a center in a nice city like Indore under your patronization. Although I know that at the present moment the time is different, still, if you like, you can help us in so many ways. In our Indian parable it is said that "A dead elephant is also one lakh of rupees." Elephant, living or dead, still, it is valuable. Mara hati laksa (?).

*So this movement, from very old days, beginning from that sun*-god, and again five thousand years ago between Lord Kṛṣṇa and the Pāṇḍavas, the pious kings. So this movement has got very intimate relationship with the kṣatriya kings. So I would request Your Highness... Both, you are sitting. If you kindly give us a little place here in Indore, we can immediately start a nice center. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that,

yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā

sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ

*harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā

*mano*-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ

[SB 5.18.12]



That "If anyone has got devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he develops all the good qualities." Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī. Because he was a devotee, he did not distinguish the king, whether he was Muhammadan or Hindu. He immediately accepted that "You are representative of Kṛṣṇa." That is the version. Arjuna, because he was a devotee, although he was in the battlefield, he was insulted, his wife was insulted, his kingdom was usurped, still, he said, "Better not to fight and kill my kinsmen." That goodness was not found on the other side, Duryodhana. Because Arjuna was a devotee, he was compassionate with his brothers, not to kill them. But Kṛṣṇa wanted that this fighting must go on because He wanted to install Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, the pious king, on the throne. So therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and the support of the royal family is very old relationship. And at the present moment people need this Kṛṣṇa consciousness very badly. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness the whole world is going to hell. And you can practically see how they are changing, how this movement is changing character and mentality of the population. So I have come here. I wish that both of you will be kindly enough to patronize this movement to your best capacity.



Thanking you, Your Highnesses. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



*Vande rūpa*-sanātanau-raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. This movement is pleasing both to the dhīra and adhīra. There are two classes of men. Dhīra means those who are advanced in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and adhīra means those who are advancing in the process of sense gratification. So these two classes of men... Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we can please both classes of men, the dhīras and the adhīras. Anyone we invite. I have spread this movement not restricting them, that "You can enter in my class after being qualified." No. Whatever you are, come. Dhīrādhīra. You come, chant, have musical instruments, plays, enjoy, dance, take prasādam and go home. And if you like, you read literatures, if you are intelligent. So everything was given to them. And they are American boys and girls. They are intelligent, qualified. So they are coming.

Yamunā: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes, I am trying to send this girl to Russia, Moscow, to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Yamunā: But I think it is very dangerous.



Prabhupāda: Not... I don't... We got a invitation from Czechoslovakia. That is also Communist country, but there the people invited us to open a center.



*Yamunā: The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra was number one in Czechoslovakia. We have one record. I just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa over and over, the mahā*-mantra, and in that country it was the most popular of all records.



*Prabhupāda: In Germany also. We sold fifty thousand records in Germany. And there is another record, govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. That is also selling very nicely. And recently another record you produced? What is that?



*Yamunā: Yes, that will be a long*-playing record, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's name is Bhaja Hūre Mana, Mana Hū Re.



*Prabhupāda: Ah, bhaja hūre mana, śrī nanda*-nandana, abhaya-caraṇāravinda re.



Yamunā: And saṁsāra prayers, vande 'ham prayers.



Prabhupāda: So that is not yet out?



Yamunā: Well, from what I understood, Mr. Harrison wants to get it out before Christmas, but I have not heard from Śyāmasundara what has developed.



Prabhupāda: There is one boy, George Harrison. Perhaps you know his name. He is one of the Beatles.



Indian man (2): Harrison, yes.



Prabhupāda: Harrison, yes. He paid me nineteen thousand dollars for my publication work, and he is a very good boy. And he is helping in pushing on our record. He is very popular.



Indian man (2): Very popular.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. And he has got to sing with him. Yes. [break] ...in London I was guest in one of the Beatles' palace. They have got each one a big, big palace. So we shall all take leave, Mahārāja. Thank you. [break]



Yamunā: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: She likes our movement.



Yamunā: Well, she had to.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) And she has seen that house also.



Yamunā: She knows that we're something



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Haṁsadūta: Eight to nine we have engagement.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Haṁsadūta: Tonight we have another engagement, eight to nine.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. So give me cold water. She is countrywoman. She is also American.



Yamunā: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Wherefrom she is coming? Where father's, father's house, this?



Yamunā: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: That's all right. So Muktānanda, how are you feeling? You are feeling all right?



Muktānanda: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So give him kunti. Purchase kunti from the market. (japa) If that kind of mṛdaṅga can be purchased, you find out. That's very nice.



Revatīnandana: They have to be brought from Calcutta.



Prabhupāda: No, the mṛdaṅga which you played.



Revatīnandana: Yes, I know.



Prabhupāda: They're from Calcutta?



Revatīnandana: That's what it says.



Haṁsadūta: It's a very nice drum.



Prabhupāda: Calcutta, there are many good manufacturers of musical instruments. Bengal is famous for music and hair.



Girl: And hair.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Haṁsadūta: Hair?



Prabhupāda: There is oil in (?). Bengali women, they have got hair like this. My sister had so bunch. (laughter) Black hair, and very long. So Bengal is famous for hair and music.



Devotee: Swamijī... (?)



Prabhupāda: Ah, no. This is for distribution of prasāda here. [break] ...hungry, hungry man. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness man, never he is hungry. If you are hungry, come, enjoy. We are never hungry. We are overfed.



Yamunā: Yes. It's a fact.



Prabhupāda: We have to fast practically by feeding others. (laughter) You are after food; we are rejecting food. Is it not?



Haṁsadūta: Yes. We're having trouble avoiding it.



Revatīnandana: We're trying to reject it.



Haṁsadūta: I think all of us had thought when you called us to India, "Now we will have to starve." So we came, and there is so much to eat.



*Revatīnandana: When we left New York City, the last Sunday, Ṛṣi*-kumāra cooked a tremendous feast. So we ate until we couldn't move, 'cause we thought it was our last feast. We thought there'd never be any more prasādam. (laughter) Now we have to...



*Prabhupāda: There was a famine in India in 1942, big famine. I particularly inquired among the disciples of my Guru Mahārāja, and even the remote village, they said that "We have no difficulty." No. And another, there was a havoc, earthquake, in Bihar sometime in 1933 or that... And one of our Godbrother, Mr. Munshi Chatterjee, when he heard that quarter is completely demolished, so he was in the office. He was thinking, "What shall I do by going home? There is no more home. Everything is..." Then he said, "Let me go and see." And when he came there, only his house was left. Only his house. All house dismantled. The only. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. That we have seen in many instances. Kṛṣṇa*-bhakta is never vanquished.



Devotee: Yes. We were thinking that he was getting special protection from the Lord.



Prabhupāda: That is a fact. So be sincere, do your duty. You will never be in trouble. Never.



Himāvatī: All the members of this family are attracted to you, Prabhupāda. They are becoming more and more attracted every day.



Prabhupāda: But some of them are very envious that I went there with forty rupees, and I got so many boys and girls, children, they become envious. Profitable. They began to say, "Oh, it is profitable business." Is it not? So I said, "All right, I leave your country." If the Kṛṣṇa is there, I can make profit anywhere. All right. So you have to wait?



Haṁsadūta: They should come any minute.



Prabhupāda: So all our men are ready?



Haṁsadūta: We're all ready.



Prabhupāda: Four, six, eight, nine. Gopāla is sick? Just see how he is.



Devotee: He has a strong fever today.



Prabhupāda: Oh, then taking rest completely. Come on. Where the box are?



Haṁsadūta: I haven't prepared it.



Prabhupāda: You should prepare.



Haṁsadūta: They have to be at least three or four...



Himāvatī: Reinforce the handle so it's stronger.



Prabhupāda: You do one thing. Have you got rope?



Himāvatī: Rope? Yes.



Prabhupāda: Bring it. And do...



Haṁsadūta: Bring it?



Prabhupāda: Yes, rope.



Haṁsadūta: You mean put a... Yes, I'll be able to that.



Prabhupāda: This palace is nice.



Himāvatī: Yes. Run down, though. I noticed that the upholstery was torn.



Prabhupāda: It is very old.



Haṁsadūta: That knife, Prabhupāda? You have that knife?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You can give to anyone in this way. Aiye... (Hindi) (end)





710216LE.GOR

Lecture at Kṛṣṇa Niketan

-

Gorakhpur, February 16, 1971



Haṁsadūta: Morning lecture, recorded the morning of February 16, 1971, at Śrī Kṛṣṇa Niketan, Gorakhpur, Uttar Pradesh.



*Prabhupāda: In this connection, the comments of Śrīdhara Swami is very important. He is putting question, nānu sakṛd ucaritena nāmābhyasena kathāṁ sarva*-pāpa-kṣayaṁ syāt, śraddhā-bhakty-avṛtyad eva adityader api vidhānāḥ. Śrīdhara Swami says that simply by chanting without any regulative principles, one becomes liberated. So how is that? So he replies himself also, "No, there are regulative principles." The idea is that chanting of the holy name is so powerful that it can immediately liberate the vibrator. But because he is prone to fall down again, therefore, what to speak of others who are following the regulative principles? This is the idea. It is not that... Just like the sahajiyās. They think that "If chanting is so powerful, I shall chant sometimes." But he does not know that after chanting, he is again falling down by willingly. This is willing, I mean to say, willful disobedience. Willful disobedience. Because I know that "I have chanted the holy name. Now my all sinful reaction of my life is now vanished. Then why shall I commit again sinful activities?" That is the natural conclusion. But if one concludes like this: "Now I have chanted, I have confessed my sinful activities in the church. Let me go now again, begin my sinful activities," such kind of willful negligence is very, very dangerous. Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. He's the greatest sinner, one who utilizes the holy name as a means of counteracting or neutralizing the sinful effects. They are very willful sinners. That should not be done. It is a fact that as soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, your all sinful reaction of life is immediately neutralized or vanquished. But you should not do again. That is the idea.



*Nānu sakṛd ucaritena nāmābhyasena kathāṁ sarva-pāpa-kṣayaḥ syāt, śraddhā-bhakty-avṛtyād eva vidhānaḥ. Tathā hi, sāyaṁ prātar gṛṇan bhaktyā duḥkha-grāmād vimucyate. He's giving quotation from many scriptures in which it is stated, sāyaṁ prātar gṛṇan... Sāyaṁ tri-sandhya, morning, noon, and evening, prātar gṛṇan, daily chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Sāyaṁ prātar gṛṇan bhaktyā, with devotion and faith, duḥkha-grāmād vimucyate. Duḥkha-grāmād means volumes of miserable condition of life. One can avoid volumes of miserable condition of life simply by chanting. Anudinam idam ādareṇa śṛṇvan iti. When it is stated anudinam ādareṇa, with great care and attention one should chant. Not that we should utilize the chanting of holy name for my sense gratification, that "I commit sin, and again I chant, and it will be counteracted. So again I chant, again I commit." No. That is not allowed. Anudinam. Śrīdhara Swami... Anudinam idam ādareṇa śṛṇvanti. Or śṛṇvan ādareṇa, with great care. Because the name, the holy name, and the person Kṛṣṇa-Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name*-they are identical. So one should be so much careful and, I mean to say, faithful that as soon as you are chanting, you should know that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing on my tongue." Therefore how much careful and respectful we should be. It is very responsible(?).

*Suppose Kṛṣṇa is here... Just like we offer so respectful obeisances to the Deity. Similarly, as the Deity is arcā*-vigraha, incarnation... This Deity which you are worshiping as the arcā-vigraha, arcā means worshipable incarnation. Because we cannot see Kṛṣṇa with our present eyes, material eyes; therefore it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He has appeared before us in a form which we can see. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is different from this Deity. That is mistake. Those who cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa's potency, they think that this is idol, and therefore they say "Idol worship." It is not idol worship. The same example, as I have given many times, that the postbox, or mailbox on the street, it is post office. If somebody thinks, "It is a box..." It is a box, but it is a post office at the same time. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everything. The bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ kham... [Bg. 7.4]. Kṛṣṇa says, "My energy." As you cannot separate energy and the energetic, Kṛṣṇa is everything. So Kṛṣṇa can accept your service through everything. Don't consider that "This is metal." The metal is also Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we should know bhūmi..., bhūmi... Metal, what is metal? Metal means earth. Kṛṣṇa says, first of all says, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ: "They are My all energies." So from argument's point of view, Kṛṣṇa is everything. Therefore Kṛṣṇa can accept service through everything. So this Deity, vigraha, either made of wood, made of stone or earth or metal or painting, they are not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got the potency to accept your service through this medium. So they are not pictures or they are not ordinary idols. You should never... Similarly, a sound vibration. Kṛṣṇa is present through sound vibration because the five elements, ākāśa, the sky... Sky, within sky, there is sound. So from argumentative point of view also, nobody can deny that this chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is not identical. It is identical. Because identical... Everything is identical.

*So as soon as you approach the Deity or the name, you should know fully well that Kṛṣṇa is present. Kṛṣṇa is... Therefore we should worship the Deity with great attention, as much as Kṛṣṇa is present. And similarly, we should worship the holy name with great attention. We should not be inattentive. Suppose Kṛṣṇa personally comes, personally He is here. Suppose personally, as you think of personally, personally comes. If you do not become respectful, is that all right? No. You should be very much respectful. Even a respectable person, ordinary person, a big man or a rich man or a king comes, we become so much respectful. And what about Kṛṣṇa when He's present as arcā*-mūrti or as the holy name? These are the realization point of view: Kṛṣṇa, His name, His form, His quality, His pastimes. When you hear about Kṛṣṇa, that is also Kṛṣṇa. Actually, when you are reading Kṛṣṇa book, Kṛṣṇa is fighting with demons, that is also His pastime. So Kṛṣṇa is present. So you should be very attentive and worship this hearing. Unless we come to this point, there is lack of realization what is Kṛṣṇa.

*Anudinam ādareṇa śṛṇvan iti śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ dhyānaṁ harer adbhuta*-karmaṇaḥ. Here also, explicitly mentioned, harer adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa's activities are all wonderful. As you read from the Kṛṣṇa book, He is fighting with many demons, and His activities are wonderful. Just like Kāliya-damana. A boy of five years old or six years old jumping in the Yamunā, and the great snake immediately coils Him, as if it will devour Kṛṣṇa. And from the shore, all the members of Vṛndāvana, they become fainted: "Now Kṛṣṇa is gone." But He was fighting with him and kicking on the head, and blood was oozing out from the mouth of the serpent. So these things are wonderful things-Bakāsura, Aghāsura, Śiśupāla, Kaṁsa. Kṛṣṇa was boy of sixteen years old when He was combating a very powerful wrestler, Cāṇūra. Everything... Everyone present, they thought it unlawful that "Kṛṣṇa is so young, and such a big stalwart and strong wrestler is engaged with Him for wrestling. This is not good. This is not good." In protest, so many people left the arena. And Nanda Mahārāja began to think, "I should have locked up Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana instead of allowing Him to come here. Oh, so much injustice." But Kṛṣṇa killed them. Not only killed them, the wrestlers who were engaged by Kaṁsa, He immediately dragged Kaṁsa from his throne and simply by fisting He killed him. There are so many wonderful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's activities are called adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ. It is never expected to be done by any human being. How it can be done by a human being? He's all-powerful. He can do anything and everything. And because the persons with poor fund of knowledge, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore these Kṛṣṇa's activities are to them as allegories or mythology. Because they are rascals, they think it is mythology. It is not mythology. It is actual fact, but they are wonderful, because it is being enacted by Kṛṣṇa.

*Therefore it is stated here, harer adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ, janma-karma-guṇānāṁ ca tad-arthe akhila-ceṣṭitam ity adi asmin eva purāṇe tatra tatra pathyate. Janma-karma-guṇānāṁ ca. Hearing about Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa's appearance, His so-called janma... Janma means birth. So Kṛṣṇa is unborn. He is nityo nityānām. He's... Just like we have no janma, we have no appearance. It is simply change of dress. It is not death. As it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]-if I change my dress, that is not my death. This is easily understood. Similarly, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, that is not death. But because we have no eyes to see the soul, how it is changing from one body... Just like we cannot see how the baby is coming to another body, childhood, boyhood. We cannot see. We see that the body is changing. No. He's changing from one body to another. That is the version of the Bhagavad-gītā. But we say that body's growing. Why body's growing? If the body has got any growing power, then why the body of a dead child does not grow? The body has no growing power. It is actually changed. But because... Just like in the spool of your film, there are many pictures. But because you see under certain condition, you see one picture. It is very easy to understand. Actually, the pictures are changing, different pictures, and we are seeing one picture. We are seeing the picture is moving in one picture. Similarly, this body is continuously, every moment, there is different body, different body, different body, every moment, but we are seeing one body. This is our ignorance. But we are changing body. Every moment we are changing body. The spool is going on. The exact example is that, like that, the film. Every second, changing one picture, one picture, one picture, one picture. And it appears that it is only one picture. One who does not know how the machine, cinematographic machine is working-the foolish persons*-they say, they think that the picture is one and it is moving. No. It is changing. Similarly, the body is also changing. The exact example is changing of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. That is the exact word used in the Bhagavad-gītā. So even for an ordinary living being, we cannot see how the body is changing, how the living entity is changing from body to another. It is so swiftly, every moment, every second, it is taking place. How you can see? So there is no death; it is simply changing.

*So if for ordinary living entity there is no death, how Kṛṣṇa can be appearing and dying? No. Therefore, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. One who knows in truth how Kṛṣṇa is appearing, how Kṛṣṇa is disappearing, he is learned. He is learned in the spiritual science, and for him, as soon as he becomes learned, well*-versed in the spiritual science, Kṛṣṇa science, he immediately becomes liberated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirms, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Because one who has understood Kṛṣṇa in truth, he is liberated person. Therefore he is guru. Guru cannot be a conditioned soul. Guru must be liberated. Because without complete knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, without being free from the contamination of the three modes of material nature... One cannot understand Kṛṣṇa on account of his being engrossed with these three material modes of nature. And Kṛṣṇa says, "One who understand Me rightly, he becomes immediately free." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Just like we are changing our dress or our different bodies every moment, so Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā deham. The last change, last change... Ordinarily, those who are not liberated, those who are conditioned still, they die. Die means they change this body and accept another material body. Another material body. But one who is liberated by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he also changes his body and he accepts immediately a spiritual body. And so long he lives, that is also spiritual body. That is spiritual body in the (this) sense because that body is engaged in spiritual activities only. There is no material activity; therefore that is spiritual. The same example: the iron rod, although it is rod, because it has become red hot it is no longer rod; it is fire. Similarly, this material body becomes spiritualized when one is completely Kṛṣṇa conscious, because he has no more activity of this material body. His actions are... The same example, try to follow. When it has become so hot, red hot, that it is no more acting as iron rod, it is acting as fire. Similarly, and when he changes this body also, he immediately... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Then he does not come in material body. Immediately, a spiritual body develops. As this material body has developed from the spirit soul, on the platform of spirit soul, similarly, what is the difficulty to understand a spiritual body can also grow? There is no difficulty. So our, this material body, everyone knows that it grows or it changes from one body to another because the spirit soul is there. Similarly, one who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, as it is said by Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā deham: as soon as this body is given up, immediately, another, spiritual body is offered.

*That spiritual body... Sanātana Gosvāmī has said that those who are being liberated from this material world, they are offered a spiritual body where Kṛṣṇa*-līlā is going on. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Vṛndāvana-līlā, or as Kṛṣṇa manifested His different pastimes when He was present, that is going on eternally. As soon as He leaves this universe, in another universe His līlā becomes manifest. Kṛṣṇa is born... Kṛṣṇa is born here at Janmāṣṭamī, and as soon as Kṛṣṇa is taken to Gokula by Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa is seen in another universe, born again. Just like our sun. As soon as it rises at six o'clock or, say, five o'clock... So as soon as here five o'clock finished, in another place five o'clock begins. But it is going on. Ananta-cakra. The five o'clock is permanent. Anywhere, there must be some five o'clock. Anywhere, there must be six o'clock. Anywhere, there must be seven o'clock. Just like the twenty-four hours is going on. You cannot say that the sun's rising at five o'clock, because it is finished within your view, it is finished. No. It is not like that. The five o'clock is permanent to the sun. If it is so possible to a material thing, why not Kṛṣṇa? Therefore it is called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā means eternally Janmāṣṭamī is going on. Eternally everything is going on, eternally. So one who is liberated from this world and he is given the spiritual body, he's immediately transferred to the place where Kṛṣṇa's līlā is going on. Just like in Vṛndāvana, when Kṛṣṇa was present, all the Vṛndāvana-vāsīs, they were not ordinary men; *they were liberated. They transferred to associate with Kṛṣṇa, practice. And after this complete practice, they were transferred to the Goloka Vṛndāvana. So therefore, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says about the boys, cowherd boys, playing with Kṛṣṇa, kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "Oh, how much these boys have accumulated their pious activities! Now they are transferred here to play with Kṛṣṇa." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ.

*itthaṁ satāṁ brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nara*-dārakeṇa

*sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



*"Oh, these boys, it appears that they are cowherd boys playing with Kṛṣṇa," appreciating, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. "Oh, how much they have accumulated their pious activities so that now they have got chance to play with Kṛṣṇa personally!" They are not ordinary cowherd boys. So, similarly, all the gopīs, all the cowherd boys, they are not ordinary men. They've given chance after many, many births accumulating the devotional service. Devotional service so nice. In one life they can be benefited with that position as cowherd boy, as he likes*-as friend, as gopīs. That is possible. Therefore, the devotees are so much austere, so much, I mean to say, penanceful, that "This life we shall attain this position." One is hoping to be Kṛṣṇa's friend, one is hoping to be gopī, one is hoping to be friends of Yaśodā. So everything is possible, pañca-rasa, the five rasas in Vṛndāvana. One is hoping to be a tree there, a grass there, a flower there.



*So this is possible. So... And Kṛṣṇa says, mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ mad-yājino... [Bg. 9.25]. "Those who are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they come to Me. They come to Me." So where is the difficulty to understand the whole philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness? It is very simple. Everything is there. We have to understand, and we have to be very serious and sincere. The thing is there.

Thank you very much.

Devotee (1): During the time when the living entity is transferred from one body to another, is he always fully conscious of the subtle facts?



Prabhupāda: Are you not conscious of your childhood?



Devotee (1): Am I conscious of... My body's being constantly changing?



Prabhupāda: You are conscious, but you do not perceive it.



Devotee (1): Can the living entity perceive the situation at this time, when he's being transferred from one body to another?



Prabhupāda: So why you are thinking... Are you not assured that you are not transferred? You are not sure? When there is practically it is happening, what is the reason of your being doubtful?



Devotee (1): There's no doubtful. It's just here. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: So many things happening in your body; are you aware of all these things?



Devotee (1): No.



Prabhupāda: Then, similarly, it is happening. Why do you ask such question? So many things are happening in your body. You do not know how it is happening. Therefore it is called prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. The nature is doing. You are completely in the hands of the nature. How, after shaving, how your hairs are growing, do you know?



Devotee (1): No.



*Prabhupāda: Then? It is completely under the hands of the nature. Similarly, everything is. As you cannot explain, cannot know how the hairs are growing, similarly, you cannot know how you are changing. It is, by nature, it is being done so nicely. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala... [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. It is taking place. A flower is fructified. Can you explain how it is fructified? It is taking place. The foolish persons, they say "Automatically." No. The machine is so expert that it is taking... The machine is working. The nature is working, but we are not so expert to understand. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. We are thinking it is taking automatically. No. It is not. It is taking very perfectly, and we are so ignorant that we cannot understand. We should always know our position, how much we are ignorant. I am claiming I am the... "It is my body." How your nails are growing, can you explain? Why there is no sensation in the nail? So many things you are unaware, even of your body. So how you can be aware that how your body is changing? You have to learn, therefore, from authorities, "It is being done." Just like Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... [Bg. 2.13]. That is the process of knowledge. You have to know from the authorities how things are there. The person who is actually enacting, you have to know from Him. Otherwise, there is no possibility of knowledge.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Prakṛti. You are walking, you are walking, and immediately you become paralyzed. But while walking you think, "I am walking. I am walking." You are not walking. You are walking under some mechanical arrangement with the help of the material nature, but you are thinking, "I am walking." In every step, in every action, you are completely dependent. Don't you think that "I am walking"? Now when there is some trouble or if the hands or leg become paralyzed, now if you are walking, then you repair it. Bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Why do don't you read this Bhagavad-gītā?



*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



What is the meaning of this? Yantrārūḍhāni. Just like you are sitting on a carriage, and the driver is taking you anywhere he likes. You are just like that. There is no control how you are being taken. Yantrārūḍhāni. Yantra means just like carriage, a machine. You are sitting on a machine, and under the direction of the Lord, Īśvara... He is sitting in your heart. So māyā is driver, and Kṛṣṇa is dictating, "Drive this person in such and such body," and māyā is there, offering the body. Kṛṣṇa is seeing you, that you are doing, you require such and such body, and He's ordering māyā that "You give him such and such body." So māyā is offering you. You are simply under the control. You are simply thinking, "I shall do that, I shall do that," and everything is there by Kṛṣṇa's order. So you think of Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will give you another body, spiritual body.



Devotee (2): Every moment we are changing our body.



Prabhupāda: That is, the medical science says. Even medical science, they say the blood corpuscles are changing.



Devotee (2): But we don't feel it so much.



Prabhupāda: You don't feel so many things. That I have explained. That does not mean it is not taking place.



Devotee (2): No, I want to say, like at the point of death we are also changing to another body. Do we feel that then?



Prabhupāda: That I explained. You don't feel, even the change takes place. Yes.



Devotee (2): Even in death...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, you said that at the time of death, if one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's given a spiritual body. Is the spiritual body... You said it has been created. Originally, we had a spiritual body, and then we fell under the...



Prabhupāda: I don't say created. It develops.



Devotee (3): Oh. It's the same one that was an eternal body.



Prabhupāda: Yes. As the material body has developed for your material consciousness, similarly, spiritual body will develop for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Devotee (3): And it's the same spiritual body that we had before we came into the material world?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You are one ten*-thousandth part of the point. How this big body has developed? It has developed materially. Similarly, it will develop spiritually. What is the difficulty to understand? Is there any difficulty still?



Devotee (3): No.



*Prabhupāda: You are one ten*-thousandth part of a point, and you have developed a big body like elephant. (laughter) Or Brahmānanda Swami. (laughter) (chuckles) When he was getting fat, I was very much thinking that "This boy is getting fat." To get fatty is not very favorable for spiritual understanding. My Guru Mahārāja said. If you'll say some disciple is getting fat, he'll immediately say, "Oh, he is getting fat?" Yes. Spiritual life does not mean very fat. That is an impediment. That means materially he's becoming developed. (laughter) That's a fact. So we should not eat more to get fat. You should simply eat to keep yourself (chuckling) body and soul together. Not to get fatty. No. That's not good. Of course, we are not fatty.



Devotee (1): You told us about that Bhāratī Mahārāja.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhāratī Mahārāja. (chuckles)



Yamunā: What was that?



Prabhupāda: My Godbrother, there was one Bharati Mahārāja. He was... (laughter) So Prabhupāda used to criticize, "Oh, this man is getting fatty." And actually, he was not very... Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. You have to take shelter; therefore you are marginal. You have to take shelter of the material energy or the spiritual energy. When you take shelter of the material energy, you materially develop. When you take spiritual energy, you spiritually develop. That's all. Therefore your position is marginal. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. Mahātmā, those who are mahātmās, they have given up. The Māyāvādī philosopher thinks that as soon as he has given up, liberated from the matter, now he has become God. No. You give up this material energy, you have to take up spiritual energy. Mahāmāyā, yogamāyā. Yes.



Revatīnandana: I've experienced that the more we know about these different processes, when we speak them, the people are impressed that we are understanding scientifically. So sometimes we ask a question, it is not so much out of doubt, but we just want to understand that...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That should be. Yes. That is good. Paripraśnena. Tad viddhi paripraśnena, praṇipātena, and sevayā. The questions should be put, guided by two principles: surrender and service. That is the way.



All right. (end)



710217LE.GOR

Lecture

-

Gorakhpur, February 17, 1971



Prabhupāda: ...giving quotations from many scriptures about the supreme position of chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa.



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ dhyānaṁ

*harer adbhuta*-karmaṇaḥ

*janma*-karma-guṇānāṁ ca

*tad*-arthe 'khila ceṣṭitam



*Ity ādi asmin eva purāṇe tatra tatra pathyate. So we were discussing janma*-karma. Janma-karma-guṇānāṁ ca. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's quality, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's entourage, everything. Kṛṣṇa's abode, everything, they are one Absolute Truth. So any of these items you chant, it is as good as chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference. As in the material world there is difference between the object and the name or other paraphernalia, in the spiritual world they are all the same. That we require to understand. Because we have no spiritual understanding at the present moment, we sometimes are misguided, thinking... Just like Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with the gopīs, some rascal people take it as ordinary dealings between young boys and girls. But it is all transcendental. It requires, I mean to say, service attitude to understand this. The whole thing, the basic principle of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness is surrender. Nobody can understand except one who has fully surrendered him... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Sevonmukhe. One whose attitude is to serve, not to challenge, to him only, Kṛṣṇa is revealed, not to others. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. These blunt senses, material senses, they cannot understand śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi, beginning from Kṛṣṇa's name. Because devotional service begins from this chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Not of others, only of Viṣṇu. People are imitating. There are so many imitations, that "Why Kṛṣṇa's name? Let there be Kālī's name be chanted." And there are so many rascals, they say that "Either you chant Kali's name or Kṛṣṇa's name, it is all the same." The śāstra does not say. Śāstra says, harer nāmānukīrtanam. Here is also Śrīdhara Swami quotes from śāstras. Harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Harer adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ dhyānaṁ harer adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa's activities are all wonderful, adbhuta. No human being can do like that. Harer adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ, karmaṇaḥ, janma-karma-guṇa..., tad-arthe akhila-ceṣṭitam. At the same time, tad-arthe, for Him, for His sake, akhila-ceṣṭitam... Any endeavor for pushing on Kṛṣṇa's glories, that is also as good as chanting the holy name. When you go out for canvassing, for pushing on this movement, people may not see that you are not chanting and dancing. Suppose you are canvassing for a life member. That topic is also as good as chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra because akhila-ceṣṭitam. One's life must be dedicated simply for Kṛṣṇa's service.



*So any way you do it, it is all the same. Absolute. Tad*-arthe akhila-ceṣṭitam, ity ady asmin eva purāṇe tatra tatra pathyate. Śrīdhara Swami says, "In this Purāṇa, Mahā Purāṇa, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, these things are explained everywhere, as well as these things are explained in all other Vedic scriptures. Purāṇantare ca pāpa-kṣayaś ca bhavati smaratāṁ tam ahar-niśam iti. These are the authoritative statements; *therefore, we have to follow the ācāryas. They pick up nice authorized verses from various Vedic literature and present before you. So Śrīdhara Swami says, purāṇantare. In other Purāṇas also it is stated, pāpa*-kṣayaś ca bhavati smaratāṁ tam ahar-niśam. "Anyone who is always absorbed in Your thought, no material scene can effect him, cannot touch him." Pāpa-kṣayam. "And if he has any sinful activities in his past life, that also becomes nullified." Pāpa-kṣayam. Pāpa-kṣayaṁ bhavati smaratāṁ tam ahar-niśam. "Anyone who is always..." Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā: "One who is always thinking of Me within himself, he is first-class yogi." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ [Bg. 6.47]. There is no need of speculating. Simply this easy process, thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. All big, big yogis, there may be, but a person who is always absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa within himself, he is greater than all such big, big yogis. Greater than the greatest yogi. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā. Mad-gata means his life is so molded that he cannot stay without thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Mad-gata. He has become absorbed. That is samādhi. Mad-gatenāntarātmanā śraddhāvān. Not for artificial makeshow, but śraddhāvān, with faith and love. Śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo mataḥ.

*But how this stage can be attained? This stage can be attained only by persons who have developed pure love of God. Just like... It is very easy to understand. If you love somebody, always you'll think of him. In this material world also, the so*-called love... If a boy loves some girl or a girl loves some boy, naturally, he thinks always of him. So to think of Kṛṣṇa always means you must develop your love. That is there within yourself, everyone. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. It is eternally truth, eternally fact, that you have got your love for Kṛṣṇa within yourself. Simply you have to revive. That process is easy, very easy. The chanting. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The glittering thing, Kṛṣṇa, or the Kṛṣṇa light. Kṛṣṇa light is within everyone. Nitya-siddha: eternally truth. But it is covered by material contamination. And by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra these nasty, dirty things will be cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. This is polishing. Polishing. Just like mirror, you polish; *you can see very nicely the reflection of your nice face. Similarly, if you polish your heart by chanting, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam, then immediately you develop your dormant love of Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as the dormant love of Kṛṣṇa is awakened, immediately you are liberated. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam.

*Liberation means to get out of the blazing fire of this material existence. That is liberation. It is simply change of consciousness, that I am thinking in so many ways, my consciousness is polluted in so many ways. But when you think that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is your real constitutional position, then that very understanding makes you liberated, immediately. Pāpa*-kṣaya bhavati smaratāṁ tam ahar-niśam. Tatraiva ca tasmāt saṅkīrtanaṁ viṣṇu jagan-maṅgalam amhasā... Jagan-maṅgalam amhasā. Śrīdhar Swami gives his comment, tasmāt, therefore; *sankīrtanaṁ viṣṇu jagan*-maṅgalam amhasā. The world (is) full of sinful reactions. If this saṅkīrtana movement is pushed on there will be peace, there will be auspicity all over the world. It is not that we have introduced a new thing. It is sanctioned by the śāstras and accepted by the authorities. Tasmāt. He said, tasmāt sankirtanaṁ viṣṇu. Viṣṇu, not others. Not for the, of the demigods. Viṣṇu. Saṅkīrtanam viṣṇu jagat maṅgalam amhasā, mahatām api kauravya viddhy aikāntika-niṣkṛtam ity ādi. It is not only good for the sinful persons. Those who are exalted mahātmās, they should not think... They cannot think. If they are actually mahātmās, they cannot think like that. But there are so-called mahātmās. They think that they are very much exalted, they do not require this saṅkīrtanam. Śrīdhara Swami says that this saṅkīrtana movement is not only for the persons who are sinful, but mahatāṁ api. Mahatāṁ api sarveṣāṁ. That is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everywhere.

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta puruṣaṁ param



*So Śrīdhara Swami also says mahatām api kauravya viddhy aikāntika*-niṣkṛtam ity adina. Mahatām. Śrīdhara Swami says those who are thinking that "I am liberated, I am very exalted," that imagination is also not perfect. Unless one takes to this process of loving platform, there is no possibility of being liberated. And Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Jñānavān, those who are speculating on knowledge, they are called jñānavān, jñānī. But that jñāna, that speculative knowledge is not sufficient to give you liberation unless he takes to devotional service. They may think that they have elevated themselves very high by speculating process, but unless they take to this surrendering process to Kṛṣṇa...



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



This is the verdict of all Vedic scriptures. Mahatām api kauravya... Samyak saṅkīrtanād eva mucyate. Samyak saṅkīrtanād eva mucyate. Simply imagining that "I have become liberated," that will not help. Māyā is so strong that simply your concoction that "I have become liberated" will not do. Not fanciful imagination. One has to take actual process for becoming liberated. That is done, here Śrīdhara Swami says, samyak kīrtanād eva mucyate. Simply by perfection of saṅkīrtana, one can become liberated. Not otherwise. Kiṁ ca tathasati kim api manvadaya dvadāsa, dvadāsadini smareyaḥ (?).



*Now argument may be forwarded that if the simple process, simply by chanting the holy name, one becomes liberated, then why there are so many śāstras, manyadini? Manu is supposed to be the leader of giving all śāstras. There are twenty kinds of śāstras, dharma-śāstra. Vimsati dharma-śāstra. So what is the necessity of these dharma-śāstras? Actually, there is no need of dharma-śāstra. Kṛṣṇa also says the same thing. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. There are twenty kinds of dharma-śāstras, religious principles, in the Vedic literature, beginning from Manu, Parāśara, and other great, great sages. So here, Śrīdhara Swami is also putting forward the argument that if simply by chanting the holy name of God, one becomes liberated-even mahātmās also, they have to take to this process-then why, what is the necessity of so many, twenty kinds of dharma-śāstras? So from the conclusion of various Vedic literatures, there is no need of studying even the dharma-śāstras. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]? Sarva-dharmān means the dharma-śāstra also. Simply surrender. But people are so rigid and so, I mean to say, doggish, that they do not like to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. For them only, so many different ways of convincing. Otherwise, the whole purpose is to induce him to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vidyam. Kṛṣṇa says. All these Vedic literatures, they are meant for bending the stubborn atheist to come to this point. Therefore there are so many ways of... Otherwise, the ultimate goal is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and chant His holy name.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710218LE.GOR

Lecture

-

Gorakhpur, February 18, 1971



*Haṁsadūta: The following lecture was recorded the evening of February 17th, 1971, Śrī Kṛṣṇa*-niketana in Gorakhpur, Uttar Pradesh. [break]



*Prabhupāda: This is the real picture of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead: rādhā*-mādhava kuñja-behari. Kṛṣṇa has no other business. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya padam ekaṁ na gacchati. Kṛṣṇa means original Kṛṣṇa, or the ādi-puruṣaṁ, which is known as ādi-puruṣaṁ. He's always in Vṛndāvana, but He expands Himself as Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, Pradyumna, so many, unlimited expansions. But the original form is in Vṛndāvana.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. These are the Vedic evidences. Kṛṣṇa Himself says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7].



That Supreme Personality of Godhead is always engaged in pleasure potency. Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. This is explained by Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī:

*rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad*-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ

*vande rādhā*-bhāva dyuti-suvalitaṁ caitanya saṁjñākhyam

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*So Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, when He wants to enjoy, He exhibits His pleasure potency. He is Paraṁ Brahman. For brahmānanda, for enjoying the transcendental pleasure, here we see many, many great saintly persons, sages, they give up this material enjoyment for enjoying spiritual enjoyment, brahmānanda, which is known as brahmānanda. Brahmānanda means unlimited, unlimited ānanda. Here in this world, there is a reflection of ānanda, of brāhmaṇanda, but it is flickering, temporary. Therefore it is said in the śāstras, ramante yogino 'nante. Those who are yogis... Yogis means who are realizing transcendental position, they are called yogis. They may be divided into three categories: the jñānīs, the haṭha*-yogīs, or the bhakta-yogī. They are all called yogis. So ramante yogino anante. Yogis' target of enjoyment is to touch the unlimited. Here there is no perception of unlimited pleasure. That is not. It is flickering. Rāmante yoginaḥ anante satyānande [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. That is real pleasure. Here the pleasure is like this, that you, somebody is offering that "You take these rasagullās, and after eating rasagullā I shall beat you with shoes." Here the pleasure is like that: "You eat rasagullā and then be beaten by shoes." Perhaps we have got all experience of this. But actual ānanda is brahmānanda, unlimited. Brahmānanda means unlimited. There is no... It is increasing. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. When you get to the... Everyone, we are seeking after ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Because Kṛṣṇa is ānandamaya, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, naturally we are also ānandamaya. But we have fallen in the circumstances where there is no ānanda. Those who are seeking after ānanda, they are under illusion, will o' the wisp. There is no ānanda. "Why there is no ānanda? There are so many things to enjoy." No. Kṛṣṇa says that this place is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. So how there can be ānanda? It is certified by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that it is duḥkhālayam, it is the place for miserable condition of life. So how there can be ānanda?



*Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, "Those who are intelligent, they should always place before them four principles of miserable condition." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. We should not be illusioned. We should know that there is, I mean to say, distresses when we take birth. We have forgotten. We do not know how much suffering we had to undergo when we were within the belly of our mother. It is very miserable condition. We had to remain there in packed-up condition like this in a bag, and it is suffocating. And because we are... At that time, the skin is very tender. There are many worms and germs within the belly, mixed up with stool and urine; *they bite. We have forgotten that, the actual position. Anyone who knows how a child remains within the womb of his mother... The medical profession, they also know how much it is suffocating. Suppose you are packed up in a bag... It is simply by the mercy of God, Kṛṣṇa, that we can remain in that condition. If you are put again into that condition, you will immediately die. So we have forgotten what is the distress to remain in the womb of mother. And that also, sometimes a child is killed. At the present moment, advanced civilization, pregnancy is killed sometimes. So we cannot see even light. We die within the womb of a mother and again enter another womb. And it may be we die again. So just try to understand what is the miserable condition of birth. But because we forget, we think we are very happy. And again, not only that, as soon as we take birth, again a new chapter of life begins. Again you... Even after coming out of the womb, when we are little child we cry. There may be mosquito biting or bugs biting or something in the belly, troubling, crying. Mother is trying to pacify, but we are crying, crying. We cannot express. So these are the miserable condition of life. Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. So under the illusion of māyā, as soon as we get out of the womb we forget everything, what we are suffering. And because the mother and relatives, they take on the lap, we forget. So this is the condition, miserable condition of birth. And similarly, miserable condition of death. When one is lying in coma, so many sufferings is going on, so many dreaming, the Yamadūtā is coming. Sometimes the man on the deathbed cries, he's so much suffering. But there is no remedy. Everyone is helpless. So that is the miserable condition of death. And then, janma*-mṛtyu-jarā, old age. Just like we have now come to the old age. There are so many troubles. Sometimes heart failure, sometimes there is... So many troubles. You know, everyone. So janma-mṛtyu-jarā and vyādhi. So long we have got this body, you'll have so many diseases. So how you can get rid of these duḥkha? Therefore it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. How you consider that "We shall make it adjusted"? That is not possible. Therefore it is the duty. This human form of life is meant for realizing what is my position.

Then Bhāgavata says,

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

[SB 5.5.1]



*The Bhāgavata says that this life, this human form of life, ayaṁ deha... Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means the human form of life. It is not meant for working hard day and night and live like a hog. The hog's life we have got experience. They eat stool, all day long working, and they have got some pleasure, sex pleasure, without any discrimination. A person who has no discrimination of sex life, who has no discrimination of eating, he is given the birth of a hog. He has to take the birth like a hog. Because our activities are judged by higher authorities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. We are acting, but there is a higher authority who is judging our actions, what kind of actions. Because in the human form is an opportunity. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is sitting in your heart along with you as friend and witnessing what you are doing. And if you are desiring unlimited sex life and unlimited eating without any restriction, then Kṛṣṇa gives you... Because the human society, it is not possible. There are so many restrictions even from social laws, political laws. But animal life, there is no restriction. Anyone can have sex life*-the dogs and hogs on the street in open place-because they are animals. There is no law. But a human being, if he does so, then he is punishable. So why? Because human being. All the laws, all the books, are meant for human being. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, anādir bahir mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. Why these Vedas and Purāṇas and the Vedic literature there? It is for human beings, not for the cats and dogs.



So this human form of life should be utilized. In our, especially in India, the land of Vedic culture, we should utilize. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says that,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*In India, one who has taken birth as a human being, it is his duty to make his life perfect. Because there are so many, I mean to say, authentic literatures. So if we don't take advantage of these literatures, then we cannot make our life perfect. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises that you make your life perfect and distribute this Vedic knowledge to the whole of the world. Paropakāra. Paropakāra. You are meant for paropakāra, not for exploiting. That is the duty of the Indians. Unfortunately, neither we are inclined to make our life perfect by understanding the Vedic literatures... Therefore we are begging. Instead of doing paropakāra, we are begging. This should be stopped. And the essence of all Vedic literature is Bhagavad*-gītā. So if we study Bhagavad-gītā as it is, our life will be perfect, undoubtedly. But unfortunately, we also misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā according to our own whims, and therefore we are misguiding. We cannot take the essence of Bhagavad-gītā, and therefore our, this human form of life is also lost, and we cannot do any welfare activities in the world.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for that purpose, according to the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that make your life perfect and distribute the Vedic knowledge throughout the whole world. The time has come. This Bhagavad*-gītā is being presented as it is in the foreign countries. And you can see simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and studying Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, how these boys and girls, they are in ecstasy. They are in the spiritual platform. You cannot expect such dancing and such joyful attitude in this material world. It is not possible. They are in the spiritual world. Yes.

māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*If you are situated in bhakti*-yoga, avyabhicāriṇi, without any adulteration... The adulteration is most dangerous. Bhakti-yoga means,



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanam bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



Simply you have to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness favorably, not unfavorably. Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious unfavorably, that is not bhakti. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was also Kṛṣṇa conscious. He was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. "As soon as Kṛṣṇa is born, please bring Him. Or inform me. I shall immediately kill Kṛṣṇa." When Kṛṣṇa was in the womb of His mother Devakī, Kaṁsa was Kṛṣṇa conscious. He could understand that "Kṛṣṇa is now... Because Devakī, she is now so much glowing." So he could understand. He sometimes wanted to kill Devakī; *then he restrained himself, that "If I kill Devakī in pregnancy, it will be great, I mean to say, bad reputation." So he restrained himself. But therefore he was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but he was thinking of Kṛṣṇa unfavorably. So similarly, those who are reading Bhagavad*-gītā unfavorably means in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is the principal factor, but anyone who is trying to kill Kṛṣṇa and reading Bhagavad-gītā, that is Kaṁsa's reading.



Indian man: Very good, very good.



*Prabhupāda: That is not bhakti. That is going on. Great, great scholars, they are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa by reading Bhagavad*-gītā. So this has to be stopped. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness on this basis, that "Don't try to kill Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed. You will be killed. You will be killed. Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed." When I went to Western countries, they said that "God is dead." Here also, in our country so many people says that "Kṛṣṇa came. He is dead and gone. Now I am greater than Kṛṣṇa." So many rascal incarnations: "I am greater than Kṛṣṇa." You see. So this is going on.



*So by this way you cannot be happy. You must be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you act like that, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. We have to understand Bhagavad-gītā through the paramparā system, not whimsically: "I think," "It is my opinion." What you are, nonsense? Throw your opinion. This process should be given up. We should understand as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

[Bg. 4.2]



*So we have to take, understand Bhagavad*-gītā from paramparā system, not from the rascals! That will not do. So what is that paramparā system? That paramparā system... Take, for example, Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. How? Why He is speaking to Arjuna? Arjuna was not a Vedāntist; *he was a military man. You do not expect a military man to be highly learned or Vedāntist. And He was talking to him when he was fighting, very busy hour. And still, Kṛṣṇa said, "I'll speak to you this yoga system of Bhagavad*-gītā because you are My devotee and dear friend." Therefore the first qualification for understanding Bhagavad-gītā is to become a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa. And if you are a Kaṁsa, what you will understand, Bhagavad-gītā? If your motive is to kill Kṛṣṇa by reading Bhagavad-gītā... Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says, when he is explaining this verse, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." He directly says. He's advising not to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. "It is the unborn which is within Kṛṣṇa." He does not know, there is no "within," "without" Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He has no knowledge. Still, he's trying to comment on Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to awaken the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness which is lying within everyone's heart. It is not artificial. It is not that I have spoken to these boys and girls in America and all over the world (and) with my speeches they have been enticed and they are Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. Nobody has such power that simply by artificial, by speaking, one can convert. That is not possible. The real, real mystery is, as it is stated in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta,

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is in everyone's heart, dormant. Every living entity. Because every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a father and son, there is natural affection; *it is not artificial. Even there is misunderstanding between father and the son, and if they meet at a time after many years' misunderstanding, immediately the affection of father and son will act, immediately. Similarly, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our affection for Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's affection for us is eternal. Kṛṣṇa is more anxious to reclaim us from this miserable condition of life than we are, because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yaḥ [Bg. 14.4]. He is the father of all living entities. We are part and parcel. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is very anxious. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta kar says,



anādi bahir mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gelā

ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā



*Just to remind us. Not only he has given us Vedas and Purāṇas to remind us that "Your position is different than you are thinking. You are thinking that you are a material product. That is illusion. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. You are brahma*-vastu. You are part and parcel of Brahman..." Therefore there are so many literatures-vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]-just to draw your attention to come to Kṛṣṇa. Just to draw your attention, that "You are My part and parcel. You are My eternal son. Why you are rotting in this miserable condition of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]?" Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's advice is give up all nonsense engagement; *simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa favorably, not like Kaṁsa or so*-called scholars, but with natural affection for Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. That is our program.



*We are preaching all over this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement just to awaken their natural affection for Kṛṣṇa. And the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam says,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



We have to develop our natural affection. Natural affection. Just like a father loves the child, child loves the father. That is natural. At least, father loves the child without any thinking of renunciation. No. That is natural. Similarly, when we shall develop, awaken... Not develop; *it is already there. Simply to awaken. How it is awakened? Śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte. As you are coming here, if you try to hear the real fact of your relationship with Kṛṣṇa and yourself from the śāstras... Because ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā. We have to learn from the authorized śāstras, from the Bhagavad-gītā, from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, from Vedas, not from the rascals. Then you'll understand. Your real affection for Kṛṣṇa will be awakened and your life will be successful. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore advised: bhāgavata para giyā bhāgavata sthāne. We have to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the person Bhāgavatam, whose life is simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you'll understand Bhāgavata. Not from the professional readers. You cannot understand. Sanātana Gosvāmī has prohibited strictly. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam. One, he is not Vaiṣṇava in his behavior, pseudo-Vaiṣṇava, Sanātana Gosvāmī says, even he speaks hari-kathāmṛtam, the message of Kṛṣṇa, it is not to be heard because he'll not present real Kṛṣṇa. He'll present adulterated Kṛṣṇa, or his business will be to kill Kṛṣṇa. That's all.



*So this movement is cultural movement, Kṛṣṇa cultural movement. Of course, it is Indian movement, but it is not for only..., meant for only for the Indians. It is meant for everyone, because everywhere there are Kṛṣṇa's parts and parcels. (pause) (aside:) Sit down. So if we want to be free from the clutches of māyā, the formula is very simple. Formula is very simple. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. To become liberated, to become free from the contamination of this mayic illusion, or māyā... There are many yogis, they are trying to get out of the clutches of māyā, but the method is simple according to Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. You can try to get rid of, out of the clutches of māyā in different ways, but it is very, very strong. It is not so easy to get out of the clutches of māyā. But immediately He says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti: simply by surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa. What is that surrendering? "Kṛṣṇa, I forgot You for so many births, from time immemorial. Now I surrender unto You. Please accept." This simple method. This simple method will make you liberated if you do it sincerely, without any, I mean to say, reservation. That we are teaching. Simply kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. And you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be perfect. Your life will be perfect. That is injunction of all śāstras, and especially Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead teaching personally. Why do you say "There is no God. What is God?" I was surprised. When I was speaking in the Berkeley University, one Indian girl asked me, "Swamijī, what is God?" You see? I inquired from her, "Are you Indian? You are so misfortunate, you are coming from India-India is the place of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Rāma*-and you are asking me what is God?" So much degradation. Apan dhan vilaya ye vikram aje pare tyaje(?). (laughter) You see? So you should be careful now. You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously and you'll be happy. That is our propaganda.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710223LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, February 23, 1971



*Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a self-purification movement. The method is vibration of transcendental sound. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, this sound, is not material sound. It is descended from the spiritual world. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name*-not different. Abhinnatvāṁ nāma-nāminoḥ. As in this material world there is difference between the name and the substance... If you are thirsty, then if you simply chant "water, water, water," your thirst will not be quenched. You have to get the substance water. But in the spiritual world it is, being absolute, the name and the person whose name we are chanting, they are the same. Therefore by chanting this holy name of God, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hare is addressing the spiritual energy of the Lord, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So by being in touch with the Supreme Lord and His energy directly, we become purified. Exactly like if you take one iron rod, put into the fire, it becomes warner, warmer, and at last it becomes red hot. When it is red hot, it is no longer iron; *it is fire. Similarly, if you constantly become in touch with the Supreme Lord by chanting His holy name, which is not different from the Supreme Lord, then you become spiritually purified. And as soon as you are spiritually purified, then all misunderstandings of this material world immediately vanquished. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Every living entity is conscious. The original consciousness is polluted by contamination of this material world. Just like water, when it falls from the cloud directly, it is clear and without any dirty things, but as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes muddy. Again, if you decant the muddy portion of the water, it becomes again clear. Similarly, our consciousness, being polluted by the three modes of material nature, we are thinking one another as enemy or friend. But as soon as you come on the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you feel that "We are one. The center is Kṛṣṇa." And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. There are 8,400,000 species of life in different forms. The father, the seed-giving father, is Kṛṣṇa, or the Lord, the Supreme Lord. By misunderstanding, we are thinking that "I am Indian, you are American," or "You are brāhmaṇa, I am śūdra," or "You are Hindu, I am Muslim." These differences are only designations. So as soon as we are freed from the designation-sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]-when we become nirmalam, clear-clear consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the same thing-then all our misunderstanding is vanquished immediately. Then we can understand what is God, what I am, what you are, what is our relationship, and when we act accordingly, there is no controversy, no misunderstanding.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being spread all over the world on the scientific basis of Vedic culture. People are accepting. This Indian culture is being accepted all over the world. We have got fifty branches all over the world. Now we have come to establish some branches in India. We invite everyone. There is no discrimination that "You are such, you are such." Anyone can join us. And the joining method is very simple. Just like you have seen, even a small child can chant and dance. So our method is very simple. Please come, possible, try to understand little philosophy. Then you see how much it is effective, how you can feel transcendentally, how you can become advanced spiritually. The method is very simple, and we request everyone without any discrimination, never mind what you are: "Please come and join this movement and you'll be happy."

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Do any of the people from the press have a question to ask? [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...will be given from the Bhagavad*-gītā, the standard book for spiritual science, or science of God. Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It is clearly stated... We are searching after God. Sometimes we question, "Where is God? Can you show me God?" Bhagavad-gītā has given clear explanation how we can see God in everything. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. "I am the taste of the water." When we drink water, we feel very much satisfied. The taste of water is so nice. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that taste." Now, if you are drinking daily water and you are tasting it, so how you can say that you have not seen God? If you have tasted that water, then you have seen God. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the shining principle of sun and the moon." You are seeing every day the sunshine and the moonshine. How you can say that you have not seen God? So this is the science of God, how to see Him. Just like when there is smoke, you can understand that there is fire, although the fire is hidden, similarly, by the symptoms, how God is acting, how His energies are spread all over the world, if you study the energy of God, then you can see God, you can feel God, you can associate with God, and you become godly, or purified.



Guest: Detailed program?



Prabhupāda: Detailed program of this camp? That you can say.



*Guest: I have the philosophy of the spiritual world. Comments on Bhagavad*-gītā are given...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhagavad*-gītā, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Fourth Chapter, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Kṛṣṇa says that "This system of bhagavad-bhakti-yoga was spoken first by Me to the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. "And Vivasvān, the sun-god, said this philosophy to his son Manu, and Manu said to his son Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So from this formula, if we study Bhagavad-gītā, then taking the age of Manu, Vivasvān, Ikṣvāku, it becomes not less than forty millions of years. So Bhagavad-gītā is not a new thing. It is coming down from an age forty millions of years back. [break] And besides that, we are represented in Tokyo, in Canada, in Europe, in America, like that. We have got fifty centers all over the world.



Guest: What was the purpose of this festival here?



Prabhupāda: The purpose of this festival is to induce you to chant this holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That's all.



Guest: How many branches in India?



Prabhupāda: At least Calcutta, Bombay, Delhi. Three branches. In Bombay we have got already an apartment on the Warden Road, 89 Warden Road. We are paying 2,500 rupees per month. Similarly, we have got a center in Calcutta, Albert Road, near Park (?) Station, Calcutta 16. Three, Albert Road. There also we are paying one thousand rupees rent. So now we are in rented house. Out of about five (fifty) centers all over the world, we have got about five centers which is our own. Otherwise, we are in the rented house. For our expenditure is very high. In each centers, according to Indian exchange, we spend not less than five thousand and up to twenty thousand per month. But we are pulling on by selling our literatures, books, and little contribution from the public.



Guest: List of all the names of your books.



Devotee: ...called *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*.



*Prabhupāda: Where are the books? [break] Therefore we have to erect something. If I call in a ground, open ground, perhaps you'll not come. Therefore we require some temples. We are not concerned with architecture. We are concerned with spiritual life. We erect temple for worshiping Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (end)





710317LE.BOM

Lecture on *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*

-

Bombay, March 17, 1971



*Prabhupāda: There are many sat*-saṅga society, but in Europe and America, western countries, this is the only, and they have very kindly joined us. So to serve them is our first business. So, we are talking of teachings of Lord Caitanya to Sanātana Gosvāmī. Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was one of the very responsible minister in the (indistinct) government of Bengal. And as minister, he was a learned scholar both in Sanskrit and Arabic. So, he resigned his post as minister and wanted to join Lord Caitanya in his saṅkīrtana movement. He had some difficulties to get out of the responsible position. The Nawab, Hussain Shah was very much counting upon his assistance. Generally the Muhammadan kings, they were dependent on Hindu ministers. I have heard that in your this Bombay city, Aga Khan (?), his establishment for management were all Hindu officers. I do not know whether it is a fact. Is it a fact?



Devotee: It's a fact.



Prabhupāda: Yes. They know that the Hindus can manage very intelligently. They're not extravagant. So, Sanātana Gosvāmī was favored by Lord Caitanya by instructing him for two months. He created two, three lieutenants for preaching His cult. One of them was Rūpa Gosvāmī, one of them was Sanātana Gosvāmī, the chief of the Gosvāmīs. And He talked with also Rāmānanda Raya, another stalwart. He was also statesman, he was governor of Madras on behalf of the then king of Orissa, Mahārāja Pratāparudra. He was very powerful king. The Muhammadans, the Pathans, they practically conquered all over India, but they could not enter Orissa. He was very strong king and in those days Madras was under the Orissa government. So, another responsible officer.... (aside) Stop this. How it is happening? You can close these doors. So, he was another big officer, governor, he also joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And these two brothers, Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were ministers in the government of Hussain Shah, they also joined. And Raghunātha dasa Gosvāmī he was also a big zamindar, landlord, so he also joined. And a big scholar, he also from Madras side, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. And Jīva Gosvāmī, he was also a very big scholar. He happened to be from Bengal. In this way six Gosvāmīs, they were immediate disciples of Lord Caitanya and Lord Caitanya's instruction to them..., directly gave instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rāmānanda Raya. So one of the Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu is instructing at Benares. So his proposition was that some people, my neighborhood people or my dependents, government officers, they call me as a learned scholar, paṇḍita.



Of course, it is a system in India that a brāhmaṇa is addressed as a paṇḍita because he is supposed to become a learned scholar. Brāhmaṇa's business is to study Vedic literatures and teach others also paṭhan pāṭhan. He must be scholar and he must make others also scholar. Not that he is simply remains a scholar, no, that is bad. Brāhmaṇa is so liberal that he wants to make others also scholar. paṭhana, pāṭhana, yajana, yājana. Yajan means worshiping the lord and yājan means helping others. Priest, you know, priestly business. Priest means he helps the householders how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Purohita. Purohita means one who does welfare activities for the householders. Purohita. Yajana yājana, Paṭhana pāṭhana, and dāna pratigraha. Brāhmaṇa business is to take charity from his disciples, followers, and again spend it for Kṛṣṇa's service. So, these six kinds of business is for the Brāhmaṇas and they are suppose to be very learned, paṇḍitajī. Brāhmaṇa's position is paṇḍita, so he was called paṇḍita. And he was actually paṇḍita but he presented himself as a fool although he was learned. He presented himself, "My dear Lord, people say that I am very learned but actually I do not know what I am, where from I have come, why I am suffering."



*First of all, we do not know that we are suffering in every step. Why we are using this fan? Because we are suffering. Because the excessive heat we cannot tolerate, suffering. Similarly, in the winter season this wind will be another suffering. We have closed the doors tightly so that air may not come. Now the air is counteracting suffering and in another season the same air will be suffering. So, the air is the cause of suffering and it is the so*-called cause of happiness also. Actually we are simply suffering, that we do not know. But we get information from Lord Kṛṣṇa that this place is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is a place for miseries. You cannot expect any happiness. That is our foolishness. That is our foolishness. We are trying to adjust things to become happy, but we are so foolish that we do not know there cannot be any happiness. This is called ignorance. This is called ignorance. Therefore Bhāgavata says parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta. Abodha-jāta, every one of us born foolish. And we are acting in different ways to become happy, but we do not know that every step we are being defeated. We are fighting with the stringent laws of nature, struggle, but we are happy by some complacent thoughts that we have become happy, we are advanced. We are happy. We are becoming educated, we are advanced in science. But Bhāgavata says, "No, you are not advancing, you are simply being defeated, because you do not know how to get happiness. You are not trying for real happiness."

*So, this ignorance is dissipated by the knowledge of the Vedas. Lord Caitanya therefore, has said, that Kṛṣṇa he will say, that because we are so foolish we have forgotten how to become happy, therefore Kṛṣṇa has made so many Vedic literatures. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa korila. So you should take advantage of these Vedas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says-we have already talked now-He says, sādhu-śāstra-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya. This is Bengali-I think you will understand-I will explain in English also. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's proposal is: by the mercy of sādhu, holy man, or saintly person, or devotee... Who is a sādhu? We know this term sādhu. Sādhu means saintly person. But actually there are different kinds of sādhus. Generally people accept a sādhu when he is dressed with the saffron garment, but there are different types of sādhus, mahātmā. Some of them may be jñānīs who wants to merge into the Brahman effulgence. And another sādhu may be yogis, those who are trying to-the same ambition-to merge into the supreme by finding out in the heart. Yoginaḥ, paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. Dhyānāvasthita-manasā, by meditation, meditative mind, dhyānāvasthita-manasā dhiyāṁ paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. Yoginaḥ, they are trying to see the Supreme Personality of Godhead by meditative mind. That is yogi, and he is also sādhu. And bhaktas. Just like we have taken the path of devotional service to serve Kṛṣṇa at any cost. We don't think anything greater than the service of the Lord. That is the bhakta's position. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], that is bhakti. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa favorably. Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how He will be satisfied. Not thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how I shall kill Him. That is Kaṁsa's Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kaṁsa was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but his business was to make plan how to kill Kṛṣṇa. Not that sort of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is ānukūlyena, favorable, how Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Although Kaṁsa's Kṛṣṇa consciousness helped him*-he got liberation. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious unfavorably, still you get the immediate profit being liberated. For which the jñānīs and yogīs, they are trying hundreds of years. Kṛṣṇa is so nice that if you simply think that, "I shall kill Kṛṣṇa, I shall kill Kṛṣṇa."

*There is a story in the Bhaktamarg grantha that one paṇḍita was reciting Bhāgavata and he was describing Śyāmasundara. Mother Yaśodā was decorating with all jewels very nicely to go with his cowherd boy friends, with the calves and cows. Śyāmasundara. And in the forest of Vṛndāvana. So, one thief was also hearing that Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. So he thought it wise, "Why not go to Vṛndāvana and get all these ornaments from these boys? (laughter) They are all boys, so either I can kill them or somehow or other cheat them, get these ornaments." So, that's a long story (indistinct). So, with that spirit he went to Vṛndāvana to find out Śyāmasundara to exploit Him, to take all the ornaments from Him. When he actually went to Vṛndāvana, he was finding out, "Where is Śyāmasundara? Where is Śyāmasundara?" Śyāmasundara came and, "Here I am." So, first of all he was (indistinct), "My dear boy, You give me all these ornaments I will give you nice thing." He said, "No, I cannot give you, my mother will be angry, no." (laughter) In this way then he decided that I shall take forcibly. In this way simply by the association of Śyāmasundara he became a devotee. That is the fact. Dhruva Mahārāja also went to worship Śyāmasundara, Kṛṣṇa, to get the kingdom of his father. He was insulted by his stepmother that, "You cannot sit down on the throne, or on the lap of your father, because you are not born from my womb." So he took it very seriously. He went to his mother, "My stepmother insulted me like this." So, his mother said, "My dear boy, yes, it is a fact because you are not born from my..." What it is called co-wifes?

*Devotee: Co*-wife.



Prabhupāda: ".... womb. I'm unfortunate, you are born of my womb. So, so you cannot." Then, "I must have." The boy was very insistent, kṣatriya boy. "Then Kṛṣṇa helps you, then you can. Otherwise how, you cannot." Then he went to search out Kṛṣṇa in the jungle and he searched out. When he saw Kṛṣṇa he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42], no more I want it, no more I want it." This is the process. So, pure bhakti is without any desire, but even if you are filled up with desires, you go to Kṛṣṇa. Don't go to other demigods.



*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

mokṣa kāma udāra dhīḥ

*tivreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta puruṣaṁ param

[SB 2.3.10]



*Even if you have desires, not that anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], without any material desires. Generally we go to temple, to God, for some, for fulfilling some material desires. So, śāstra says even if you have got material desires, even if you are not śuddha bhakta... What to speak of śuddha bhakta, even if you are an enemy of Kṛṣṇa, somehow or other go to Kṛṣṇa. Go to the fire and you'll get warm. That is our propaganda. The Gosvāmīs recommend therefore, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. Somehow or other you just try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be successful. That is our propaganda. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, sādhu, śāstra, kṛpāya. A sādhu means devotee. That I was going to explain. A sādhu, there are different kinds of sādhus, but only the devotee, he is sādhu. It is explained by Kṛṣṇa himself, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. He is sādhu. Even if you find some defects in him due to his former habits, but he is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, unflinching devotion, he is sādhu. He is sādhu. In spite of some defects. We must admit, even in fire there are some defects. Fire is so pure that anything impure you put into the fire, it becomes pure. Perhaps you know in our Hindu system if a one utensil becomes impure some time, you put it in the fire and it becomes pure. Is it not? Is it not?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: In Bengal this is the system.



Devotee: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: So, fire is considered to be pure. Therefore any ceremony is done before fire*-god. So, Kṛṣṇa says that even fire is so pure, still there are some defect, there is smoke. So, if you want to find out defect, you'll find out in fire also. But that doesn't matter, fire is fire. Similarly, a devotee, an unflinching devotee, without any other desires, who is dedicated to the service of the Lord, he is sādhu. So we have to take shelter of such sādhu. Ādau gurv-āśrayam. And sādhu will instruct you. Not by whims, but through śāstra. He is sādhu. Sādhu will never speak to you anything which is not in the śāstra. Sādhu, śāstra, and guru. And guru is bona fide spiritual master who follows sādhu and śāstra. Who follows his bona fide spiritual master and who follows the instructions of śāstra, he is guru. sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. Narottama dasa Ṭhākura says that you have to act by accommodating the instruction of sādhu, instruction of śāstra. And you have to distribute. Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these ignorant people who are being defeated repeatedly, such persons, they are being entangled in this materialistic way of life, in this material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva. He said, kṛṣṇa bhuli' sei jīva anādi-bahirmukha [Cc. Madhya 20.117]. Anyone who has forgotten Kṛṣṇa, he is anādi bahir mukha. He is enamored by this external energy, material world. Just like in Bombay city everyone is working hard, very hard. Their mission is, "How I shall be able to construct a skyscraper building." That's all. Why they are working so hard? Their mission is that I must have a skyscraper house and good apartment and nice wife, nice children and bank balance, then happy. (chuckles) But he does not know how long these things will continue. Ten years, twenty years, fifty years, hundred years, then finished. Your skyscraper building, your nice wife, your apartment, your friends, everything that you have made(?), you do not know where you are going. That you do not know. There is risk. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty [Bg. 8.6], at the time of death everything will be examined. What are you going to be next? You have to accept another body. So that body will be created in this life. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi and that bodily structure will be formed at the time of your death. Just like if you leave this apartment, you'll have to go another apartment. So you have to select another apartment, good or bad. That will depend on your capacity, how much rent you are able to pay. Then you leave this apartment. Similarly, at the time of death by the superior arrangement, another apartment will be given to you, and immediately that is settled up, you leave this body and enter into that body. Daiva-netreṇa, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. That will be considered by your work. If your works are nice... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā,



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*So if you have prepared your life for going to the higher planetary systems, in the moon planet or sun planet or..., there are so many hundreds and thousands and millions of planets up, and similarly down, and similarly in the middle. Catur (indistinct), fourteen worlds. So, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā [Bg. 14.18]. If you have developed sattva-guṇa then you will be allowed to go to the upper planets.



*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*So, we have to see from the śāstras, therefore śāstras. So this is the position. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains that sometimes you are elevated to the svarga*-loka, sometimes you are going to the naraka-loka. In this way it is going on, but this is not our good business. Now, suppose I am in this good apartment, say for six months, and next if I cannot pay the rent, I have no means, then I go, what is called? Jopri? (?) Eh? There are jopris (?) also in Bombay. So, not that because one is in Bombay, he is always in the skyscraper. He may be in jopri (?) also. So, everyone wants. So this is going on, (indistinct) narake. Sometimes in the heavenly planet, sometimes in the hellish planet, this is going on, but this business is not good. Na sādhu manye. Even if you get the body of the heavenly planet, what you get? There is also janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. You have to die there. Even Brahma dies. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. So this is the process going on. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, sādhu-śāstra-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha. Our only business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That can be done simply by the mercy of sādhu. Therefore sādhus' business is, "Go from door to door and enlighten them." Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṝṇāṁ gṛhiṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. The sādhu's business is that he goes from door to door and tries to invoke Kṛṣṇa consciousness, dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In everyone's heart there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is in a sleeping state. Just like these European and American boys, unless there was Kṛṣṇa consciousness dormant, how it could be invoked? It is not sentiment. It was there. Our business was to, just to arouse. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citta koro ei udaya.



*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sadhu kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citta karaye udaya



*This is the statement of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there but by hearing and purifying yourself, that consciousness comes. Just like water. Water is very clean. When it rains from the clouds it is very clean, but as soon as it drops on the ground it becomes muddy. So that muddiness has to be cleansed then water will come out again clean. Similarly, our consciousness is clean, Kṛṣṇa conscious, actually, originally, but because it is contaminated with the muddy things of the material nature, it is cloudy. So, this process-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare*-is the cleaning, clarifying process, of the consciousness. Clarifying process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you take to this clarifying process, then it will be just like as clear as mirror and you will be able to see your face nicely, what I am. Then you'll understand that I don't belong to this material world, I belong to the spiritual world, ahaṁ brahmāsmi; and when you realize that, then if you can act yourself as Brahman, then your life is successful.



*brahma*-bhutaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*That is beginning of devotional service. So Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, sādhu-śāstra*-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya sei jīva nistare. Nistare means he becomes delivered. If somehow or other he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, by the mercy of a sādhu, and by understanding the śāstra, if somehow or other he becomes lean to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is eligible for being delivered from this miserable condition of material life. Māyā tāhāre chāḍaya. Then this illusion, māyā, releases our light here now. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,



*daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etaṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



This simple process that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa and māyā immediately gives you release, "Oh, no more. That's all right." (pause) Yes, any questions? So, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific, authorized and practical, and very simple. You all take to this and be happy. That is our program. If you have got any question, you can ask. (pause) We shall hold class here in the morning at about half past five, six and in the evening at seven, after seven. Any questions? (pause) Then have kīrtana. (end)





710326LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture at Cross Maidan

-

Bombay, March 26, 1971



*Prabhupāda: I think it should be down little. All right. That's all. Yes. (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your taking so much trouble in participating with us in this great movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As I am repeatedly placing before you with all humbleness that this movement is very, very much essential, not only at the present moment, but also all the time. And specially in this age, Kali*-yuga, the age of disagreements and quarrel. Kali-yuga means nobody agrees with anyone. Everyone has got his own opinion, however condemned it may be. And on that point everyone is prepared to fight with one. Therefore it is called Kali-yuga. So putting different theories, philosophical speculations, will not solve the problems of the world, because not only during this age, but in all other ages also, there are different philosophers, different scriptures. That is the law of this material nature. Here there is no oneness. Duality. This world is meant for duality. So it is called dvaita. Dvaita means duality. So Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he says, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna, ei bhāla ei manda saba manodharma. In the world of dualities, bhadrābhadra, "This is good, this is bad, this is nice, this is not nice," they are simply mental speculation because in this world nothing is nice. Everything is bad because it is not eternal. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya said, jagan mithyā, brahma satya. That's a fact. These, anything, the varieties of this world: temporary. That is the right word. It is not mithyā; it is temporary fact. The Vaiṣṇava philosopher says that this world is not false, but temporary, anitya. Anitya saṁsāra moha janmāile (?).



*Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, jaḍa*-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava: "Advancement of material science is increasing the illusion of māyā." We are already illusioned, and if we go on increasing the illusion more and more, then we become more and more entangled. That is the nature. And so long we are illusioned, we shall put forward different theories, different philosophies, and different arguments. Therefore śāstra says, tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Simply by argument and reasoning, you cannot make any spiritual advancement. Because you may be very good, I mean to way, logician, putting forward nice arguments, but somebody may come who is better than you. He will spoil all your logic, and he will establish his own logic. That is nyāya-śāstra. In Sanskrit there is nyāya-śāstra. So they are taught how to defeat his opponent. Therefore the Absolute Truth you cannot understand by argument, by material dealings. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,

*panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo

*vāyor athāpi manaso muni*-puṅgavānām

*so 'py asti yat*-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.34]



*Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ. (microphone goes out) Just like in the material science they are trying to go to the moon planet or other planets also by certain standard of speed in the sputnik. (aside:) It is not working? (microphone comes back on) They are finding it difficult even to go to the moon planet, which is the nearest planet to the earth. And there are innumerable other planets. And the modern scientists calculate that the highest planet, if we want to go there, it will take the sputnik speed, which is running eighteen thousand miles per hour, in that speed if we go forty thousands of years, we can reach the highest planetary system within this material world. But so far the kingdom of God, which is called Vaikuṇṭhaloka, or sanātana-dhāma..., as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nya 'vyakta 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. That is sanātana-dhāma. There is-we get this information from the Bhagavad-gītā*-the kingdom of God, where everything is permanent. Within this material world, everything is nonpermanent, temporary. Anything you take, it has got its creation, it stays for some time, it produces some by-products, then it grows, and then it dwindles, and then it vanishes. Anything you take. Just like our body. It is produced at a certain time by combination of the semina of father and mother, and then it grows, it stays for some time and it produces some by-products, then becomes older and older, and then vanishes. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes of material world. So although it is temporary, we cannot say it is false. It is not false. That is the difference between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. The Vaiṣṇava philosopher takes the temporary thing, although temporary. They know how to make the best use of a bad bargain. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate.



anāsaktasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

*nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe

*yukta*-vairāgyam ucyate



That is the direction given by the Gosvāmīs. And the other side is:



prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

*hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

*phalgu*-vairāgyaṁ kathyate



*So phalgu*-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Phalgu-vairāgya means inferior renunciation, or false renunciation. And yukta-vairāgya means actual renunciation. What is that difference? Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are giving up this world as false, māyā. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Just like sometimes we are criticized because we are using the advantages offered by the material science. Just like I am using this microphone. So the people may criticize, "If this world is false, the material world is false, then why should I take advantage of this material product?" They expect that those who are spiritualists, they should go to Himalayas, giving up, giving up everything material and meditate in a solitary place, in snow-covered area. But Vaiṣṇava philosophy does not think like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. He does not recommend, although He was a sannyāsī, He was in renounced order of life. He gave up His family, beautiful wife, very affectionate mother, very comfortable home, very prestige, too much prestige of His personality in the society. He gave up everything. He was in the prime age of His youthful life, twenty-four years only, but He gave up everything.



*tyaktvā su*-dustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīṁ

*dharmiṣṭha-ārya*-vacasā yad agād araṇyam

*māyā*-mṛgaṁ dayitayepsitam anvadhāvad

*vande mahā*-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam

[SB 11.5.34]



*This prayer is offered to Lord Caitanya in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. But although He renounced this material world, He is never unmindful of the conditioned souls. Therefore He says that



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*Or He wants that..., He predicted that "All over the world, as many villages and towns are there, this saṅkīrtana movement should be spread." That is the responsibility given to the human society of Bhārata*-varṣa at least. Because we followers of the footsteps of Lord Caitanya, beginning from Rūpa Gosvāmī, who is giving us direction that nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Prāpañcikatayā... Anāsaktasya viṣayān. There are two use, two kinds of uses of everything. Just like this microphone is being used for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the same microphone can be used for singing a cinema song. So microphone is not bad, but as you use it for different purposes it is bad or good. Similarly, this world, or things which we accept for our maintenance of the soul, body and soul together, they are called viṣaya. Viṣaya means eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That is viṣaya. So anāsaktasya viṣayān. We should not be attached to the viṣayas. Just like eating. Everyone is eating. You are eating, I am also eating. So what is the difference between you and me? The difference is that we who are engaged in the service of the Lord, we are eating for maintaining the body just to keep ourselves fit for working for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Another person, he is also eating. He is eating to satisfy his palate or with the aim simply to make the body stout and strong.



*So nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. We should not give up anything. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not advice of Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. He never says (to) Arjuna that "You give up this fighting and go to the Himalayas and sit down silently there to meditate." Never He advises. We are following that. As Kṛṣṇa says, as Kṛṣṇa advises to Arjuna, yuddhyasva mām anusmaran... So long you are in this material world, you have to fight because this material world is called avidyā-karma-samjña anyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. This energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, material energy, it is called avidyā-karma-samjña. Here the position is everyone is ignorant and he has to work for his maintenance. Even a small ant which requires a grain of sugar, he has to work also very hard. And the elephant who eats hundred pounds at a time, he has also to work. Even a rich man, he has also to work, and a very poor man, he has also to work. Therefore this material energy is called avidyā-karma-samjña anya. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy is that we have to work, but we should work for the best bargain. That is our philosophy. And that is taught in Bhagavad-gītā. There are, according to Vedānta philosophy, there are five kinds of interest, or arthas, pañcārtha. What is that? God, first of all to know what is God. Next, to understand what is jīva, or the living entity. Then, what is this material nature, or what is that spiritual nature. Īśvara, jīva, prakṛti. And then time*-what is the time factor, past, present, and future. And then there is karma, activities. These five things, primary principles of philosophical speculation or philosophical understanding, are very clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: īśvara, jīva, prakṛti, kāla, and activities. So out of these five, īśvara, the Lord, the jīva, the living entities, the nature, prakṛti, and the time factor, as well as the..., they are eternal. They are not temporary. But the material energy is temporary. Actually, what is the difference between material energy and spiritual energy? The difference is material energy, the consciousness is different, and in the spiritual energy, the consciousness is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Just like the sky. The sky is one, but when there is cloud, it is called clouded sky. The sky is the same. The clouded sky is not different from the original sky, but the cloud has come and has covered the sun. Not the sun. It is not the actual term. The cloud has covered my eyes. The cloud cannot cover the sun. The sun is fourteen hundred times..., fourteen hundred thousands of times bigger than this earth. Now, how a cloud spreading over, say, one hundred miles or two hundred miles can cover the sun? It is not possible. It covers the eyes of us who are within one hundred and two hundred miles. So as the cloudy sky is not different from the original sky, it is simply covered, similarly, this material world is not different from the spiritual world, but it is simply covered. In ignorance we forget Kṛṣṇa. That's all. The forgetfulness is compared with the cloud. That is stated in simple Bengali poetry:

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*As soon as we forget Kṛṣṇa... Because we are eternally part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be any separation. There cannot be any separation between us and Kṛṣṇa because we are eternally related. But a cloudy thing, which is called forgetfulness, that comes between us and we cannot see, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is diffi... Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga*-māyā samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. You will find in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I am not visible to everyone. Because yogamāyā, there is a curtain between Me and the material world, which is called yogamāyā." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, or devotional movement, is a process by which we can move that curtain and we can see Kṛṣṇa face to face. This is the process.



*So prāpañcika. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says the process is anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. You... We should be unattached to the material necessities of life. It is not that we shall neglect this body. Because a body is vehicle for understanding. So we cannot neglect it. Just like you take care of your car. You ride on your car. For business you go from one place to another. So you have to keep it fit so that it can move very nicely, it can carry out your order. Similarly, there is no necessity of neglecting this body. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yuktāhāra vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi. We do not say that "You don't eat," but we say that "You eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda, bhagavat-prasāda." You satisfy your tongue. You do not starve, but you satisfy your tongue by the foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is our proposal. We do not say that "You don't sleep," but we say, "Yes, you sleep. But sleep as much as possible so that to keep your body fit." We do not say that "You don't have sex life." But you have, have it. Just like in this association you'll find my disciples. Out of them, there are many gṛhasthas. So there is no check that the woman and man should not mix. No. But they should mix together for producing Kṛṣṇa conscious children. You have seen the sample of one Kṛṣṇa conscious child. She's always dancing and she's always jolly. She's always jolly, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

*So in this way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to Kṛṣṇize everything favorably. That is called śaraṇāgati. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That does not mean that it was told to Arjuna... So Arjuna did not give up his profession as a fighter, but he submitted to Kṛṣṇa. He Krsnized the fighting principle. He fought for Kṛṣṇa, not that he gave up fighting. In the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā he was a fighter, soldier. And at the end of his understanding Bhagavad-gītā he remained a fighter and a soldier, but his consciousness was changed. That is the difference. Similarly, the activities of this material world which is going on, we do not say like the Māyāvāda philosophers, that brahma satya jagan mithyā. According to the leader of Māyāvāda philosophers, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, his perfection of life begins when one takes to sannyāsa. The Śaṅkarācārya philosophers, they do not admit anyone as realized soul unless he has accepted sannyāsa. But Vaiṣṇava philosophy is not like that. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that you may remain in any condition of life*-it doesn't matter-but you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all.

īhā yasya harer dāsye

karmaṇā manasā vācā

nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu

jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate



*That is the direction by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Īhā yasya harer dāsye. One who is always anxious to serve the Supreme Lord... Because my natural constitutional position is to serve Kṛṣṇa. And because I am covered by the ignorance injected by the māyā, I am thinking, "I am servant of this, servant of my country, servant of my society, servant of my body." If not, "I am servant of my dog, of my cat." So that is my position. But actually I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. As I am thinking at present moment, "I am servant of this, servant of that," we have to give up this servant, servitorship or servitude, and we have to turn our face toward Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. Īhā yasya harer dāsye. Jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate. Nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu. That is the direction of Rūpa Gosvāmī, that it doesn't matter in what condition of life you are now. You may be an Indian, you may be a European, you may be American, you may be Hindu, you may be Christian, you may be Muhammadan, but you should think that you are eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa" is the right terminology what we mean by God. So that consciousness will save you. And that consciousness will make my life, this human form of life, perfect. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ, nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe. The same thing, the same philosophy, as I have already explained, that there is no restriction in accepting the bodily necessities of life, but you accept so much only as it will help you to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't take less, don't take much. Accept properly. That is the law of nature. Nature does not allow you to take more or less. Just like salt. Salt is an ingredient which you want very badly in every, I mean to say, morsel of foodstuff. But if you take more salt, it will spoil the foodstuff, and if you take less, then it will not be tasteful. So you have to take salt simply as much as you require, neither more nor less.



So our main business should be how to improve in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So far other things are required, bodily necessities, that is recommended by Rūpa Gosvāmī, anāsaktasya: "Don't be attached." Don't take food, don't eat simply for satisfying your palate. That is called sense enjoyment. But you, just to keep yourself fit, just to keep your body fit for giving service to the Lord, you can eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda. And so far Kṛṣṇa prasāda is concerned, it is not very bad; it is very good. We offer... Of course, those who are followers of Vedic principles of life, they know how nice foodstuff can be offered to Kṛṣṇa. There are hundreds and thousands of varieties of fruits. There is nice grains also, there is nice milk also, there is sugar also. So you can prepare nice foodstuff on these ingredients which are considered sattvika, sattvikāhāra. Fruits, grains, vegetables, and sugar, rice, wheat, they are considered as sattvikāhāra. So you can prepare. Kṛṣṇa also says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. He can eat everything. Just like we have evidences from His life, sometimes He ate fire. Blazing fire in the forest, He ate up. So He can eat everything because He is God. He has got the potency of accepting anything. That is a different thing. But when He demands from His devotees, He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. So we have satisfy Him from these groups. Patraṁ puṣpam means vegetables, fruits, grains; and toyam, water or milk, like that. And you partake the prasāda.

*Sometimes I am questioned in European countries that "What is the difference between patraṁ puṣpam? That is also eatables. They are also vegetables. They have got life. Why do you ask us not to eat meat because they are living beings?" So answer is that it is not the question of living being. Every living being has to eat another living being. That is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Those who have got hands, they are eating the legless. Just like the vegetables. Just like cows, goats, or other animals, they are eating grass. The grass is also a living entity, but it has no legs. It is being eaten up by another animal which has got legs. Similarly, we are also a kind of animal with hands. We are eating another animal which has no hands. Similarly, those who are strong, even in animal kingdom or vegetable kingdom, those who are strong, they are eating the less strong. In this way the whole world is maintained by one animal is eating another animal or one living entity is eating another living entity. That is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So you (we) are not interfering with the right of the living entities. A tiger has got the right to eat another animal. So we are not going to preach amongst the tigers that "You become vegetarian" or "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is not our business. Our business is that we are inducing, we are entreating, we are requesting people that "You take Kṛṣṇa prasāda." That is our business. To become vegetarian or nonvegetarian is not very big business. We do not admit that vegetarians are very much pious and nonvegetarians are not pious. No. Not like that. We say that everyone is impious who is not taking foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is our view. Anyone. That is stated by Kṛṣṇa. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva*-kilbiṣaiḥ: "Anyone who is eating foodstuff offered to Yajña, to Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa, he is diminishing his volumes of sinful life." Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt: [Bg. 3.13] "And anyone who is cooking for himself, not for Kṛṣṇa, then he is simply eating a lump of sinful life." It doesn't matter whether he is vegetarian or nonvegetarian. This is the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to eat what is offered to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. If you simply work for Kṛṣṇa... That is called karma-yoga. One who is working simply for Kṛṣṇa, he is karma-yogī. You have got tendency to work. You have got tendency to flourish yourself by advancing industrialism. That's nice. You go on, do it. We don't forbid it. But do it for Kṛṣṇa. Make Kṛṣṇa center. That is the whole teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. You offer... Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. Yat karoṣi. "Whatever you do, it doesn't matter. Whatever you eat," yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi, "whatever you sacrifice, whatever you give in charity, give unto Me." Kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people how to live in spiritual atmosphere, and then there will be peace and prosperity. Unless one is in spiritual life... Because factually we are spiritual entities. Mamaivāṁśaḥ. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the whole spirit, and we are His part and parcel. Just like a machine and there is small screw, a part of the machine. The screw, although it has no value, but because it is a part of the machine, big machine, if that screw is missing, you will have to purchase at any price. It has got value. The same screw, when it is without the machine, it has no value because it is only a small particle of the machine. Similarly, when we are out of the atmosphere, we are out of Kṛṣṇa atmosphere... There are many examples. Just like a fire and the sparks of the fire. They are of the same quality. If the sparks of the fire falls on your cloth, it will immediately burn. But the sparks of the fire and the whole fire is different in quantity. But in quality the sparks of the fire is as good as the fire. There are many examples. You can understand what is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa or God. We are small. We are atomic small, and Kṛṣṇa is unlimitedly great. That is the difference. Otherwise, so far quality is concerned, Kṛṣṇa and ourself, the same. As the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, if we live always with Kṛṣṇa, then we are in spiritual life. If we always live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then in spite of our living in this material world we are called jīvan mukta, "liberated in this material condition." Jīvan mukta. He has got to die and take liberation. Even in this life he is liberated. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*He is already Brahman realized. Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who is engaged in My devotional service, avyabhicāriṇi, without any deviation, twenty*-four hours..." We are teaching these boys and girls... This function is meant for engaging them there twenty-four hours in Kṛṣṇa's business. They are going to outside for securing advertisement. It may seem equal that another man has got to secure advertisement and they have also got securing advertisement, but there is gulf of difference. They have gone for Kṛṣṇa, and others, they have gone for sense gratification. That is the difference. In this way you can mold your life in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you live in brahma-bhūtaḥ. You haven't got to try for becoming brahma-bhūtaḥ or you have to realize Brahman separately. You are already in brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Sa guṇan samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. These statements are in the Bhagavad-gītā.



*So in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is taught what is God, what is nature of God and who is God, and what are these living entities, we living entities, and what is our relationship. These things are taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. We have to find out. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He says,

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā*-bhāva-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*So Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Sarvasya means including all other demigods. Even Brahma, Lord Śiva, and even Viṣṇu, they are emanations from Kṛṣṇa. We have got in the Vedic literature how Kṛṣṇa is the original person. Therefore Arjuna accepted, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. And the Gosvāmīs, the Six Gosvāmīs, they have analyzed Kṛṣṇa's characteristics, Nārāyaṇa's characteristics, Lord Śiva's characteristics, Lord Brahmā's characteristics. They have analyzed very scrutinizingly everything and they have found it that Kṛṣṇa is cent percent God. Nārāyaṇa is ninety*-six percent God, Lord Śiva is eighty-four percent God, Lord Brahmā is eighty-seven percent God. Of course, those who have studied Vedic literature, especially the book named Bhakti-rasāmṛta sindhu which we have translated into English, Nectar of Devotion or The Science of Devotion... So you have to learn from the Vedic literatures what is God, what are the living entities, what is their relationship, what is our ultimate goal of life. But everything is very nicely and concise form is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But we have to study Bhagavad-gītā as it is, I mean to say, directed. Not according to the whimsical commentators. Nothing should be studied which is against the principles of bhakti-yoga mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. As I have told you yesterday, Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. "Because you are My pure devotee, because you are My friend, dear friend, therefore I am speaking to you Bhagavad-gītā, which is very mysterious." And that mystery is very nice. So in order to understand Bhagavad-gītā we have to learn it from the devotees. That is also not very difficult. It is not necessary that you have to find out a devotee. The devotee is already there, Arjuna. And if you simply follow the footsteps of Arjuna, if you simply try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood, then your study of Bhagavad-gītā is complete. That is not difficult.



So as Arjuna said that paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "You are the Supreme Personality." Śāśvataṁ puruṣa. He is accepted puruṣa. Puruṣa, the Supreme Lord, puruṣa; the bhokta, the enjoyer. And He's paraṁbrahman and pavitra, uncontaminated. Pavitra means uncontaminated by the material nature. Paramaṁ bhavān. And He is the rest of everything. Kṛṣṇa also says,

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagat avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



*So everything is there. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am spread all over the world, all over the universe," avyakta*-mūrtinā, "in My impersonal form. But everything is resting upon Me, but I am not there." These contradictory terms, how it is satisfied, how it is mitigated, we have to learn from a person who knows Kṛṣṇa. Not from others. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended one brāhmaṇa who went to see Him by writing some books and they were not in order. His secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, disqualified, that "These books are not written the right order." He was surprised. He was supposed to be a great scholar of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but Svarūpa Gosvāmī nullified him that "You do not know anything." Then he advised him, because that person was very submissive, he advised him that bhāgavata paro diya bhāgavata sthāne: "Just try to understand Bhāgavata from the person bhāgavata." Person bhāgavata. There are two kinds of bhāgavatas. One is book bhāgavata, and there is another bhāgavata, who is person bhāgavata. Bhāgavata means in relationship with Bhagavān. To those who have dedicated their life... One who has dedicated his life only for the service of the Lord, Bhagavān, he is called bhāgavata.



*So if we want to learn some specific subject we have to accept a proper authority or a bona fide teacher. Similarly if we want to learn the science of God, we have to approach a person who knows the science. Not that a casual person takes one Bhagavad*-gītā and writes his comment and it goes on for some ulterior purpose. In that way you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. And Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He is situated in everyone's heart. So as soon as you are actually a devotee... He is everyone's heart but He is silent. But as soon as one is devotee, one is inclined to serve Kṛṣṇa, at that time He gives him intelligence. He does not give intelligence... He gives others intelligence in a different way, as we want. Everyone, because we are free, so as we want. Because without sanction of Kṛṣṇa, we cannot do anything. Therefore one has to take sanction from Kṛṣṇa for doing anything. So for others He gives sanction, "All right. You do it." Because He will see. Kṛṣṇa does not say that you do it because He perceives that I must do it. So Kṛṣṇa gives the sanction. That is one sanction. But there is another sanction, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is sanction for the devotees. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Teṣām. "For those who are twenty-four hours engaged in My service." Satata-yukta. Satata means always, without any deviation. Simply in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, thinking everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is seeing one flower. You'll be surprised... This little girl, the other day we were walking in hanging gardens, and this little girl, as soon as she saw some flower, immediately she expressed her opinion that these flowers should be taken and made into garland for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. She is being taught from the very beginning of her life how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So it is not difficult. It depends only on training. Even in this old age, and especially in this age this method is very simple. Simply we have to agree to accept it. That's all. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the simplest form of self-realization and advancement in spiritual life.

*So Kṛṣṇa, as I was talking, that Kṛṣṇa is sitting in everyone's heart. And as soon as one is inclined to serve Him, He is also ready to respond immediately. Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. One who is engaged twenty-four hours in His service, in Kṛṣṇa's service, bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam , not as a matter of routine... Of course, we have to begin as a matter of routine. But when you develop gradually love for Him, that is called prīti. Just like this Deity worship. Our students, first of all they are engaged in a matter of duty of devotional service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanam [SB 7.5.23]. This is called arcanam. But by worshiping the Deity he feels an attachment for service. That is natural. Tathāsakti. It is called āsakti. It will develop if you begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness at your home. Then you will feel at a certain stage an attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Āsakti. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga.

adau śraddhā tato sādhu-

*saṅga atha bhajana*-kriyā

*tato anartha*-nivṛttiḥ syāt

tato niṣṭhā tataḥ rucis



tathāsaktis tato bhāvas

sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ

prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ



*These are the different stage. Now you are coming in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is called śraddhā, a little faith. And if you increase that faith... How it can be increased? By association with devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Sādhu means devotees. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Even these boys, these European and American boys, you do not find they are correct to the principle, still they are sādhu because they have engaged themselves in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ. Even though you find cause, because they have forefather, their fathers, they did not teach anything. They are learning new. So even you find some fault in their activities, don't think that they are not sādhus. Kṛṣṇa said, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Sādhu. Sādhu means those who are devotees.



*So the symptom of a devotee is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And Kṛṣṇa is sitting in everyone's heart. As soon as He sees that "This particular living entity is very much interested in Me," teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam [Bg. 10.10]. Immediately dictate from within that "You do like this, you do like that." What is that dictation? Yena mām upayānti te. That dictation is favorable for advancing towards Kṛṣṇa. That dictation is favorable to advance towards Kṛṣṇa. Why does He say...., why does He do like that? That is His special favor. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

teṣām evānukampārtham

*aham ajñāna*-jaṁ tamaḥ

*nāśayāmy ātma*-bhāva-(stho)

*jñāna*-dīpena bhāsvatā

[Bg. 10.11]



This is Kṛṣṇa's business. Responsive cooperation. As you advance, as you try to serve Kṛṣṇa sincerely, sevonmukhe ji jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. We cannot realize Kṛṣṇa or God by mental speculation or by material advancement. We have to render service to Kṛṣṇa. Then Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and He will give you dictation from within how we can make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is the successful life of human form of existence.



Thank you very much. (end)



710331LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, March 31, 1971



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your participating in this meeting, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very much authorized. It is nothing like concocted mental speculation. It is authorized on the basis of Vedic knowledge, specifically, directly from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa, five thousand years ago when there was no history of other religion. In the modern age, any religion you can take into consideration, they are not older than 2,600 years. But so far this Bhagavad*-gītā is concerned, it was spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra five thousand years ago.



We should consider what are the religion of the world 2,600 years ago because modern history cannot place before you any chronological list of religious evolution within 2,600 years. There was human society before 2,600 years. And what was their religion? We think, from Vedic evidences, the whole world was in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There was one God, Kṛṣṇa; *one scripture, Bhagavad*-gītā; one consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness; *and one work, service of the Lord. From Mahābhārata, the great history of India, we can understand that up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the whole world was ruled by one flag, this Vedic culture. Gradually it deteriorated, as we have practical experience. Twenty years ago there was no Pakistan, but now Pakistan is existing. Similarly, the whole planet was known as Bhārata-varṣa. This Bhārata-varṣa name was after the king Mahārāja Bhārata, the son of Ṛṣabhadeva. Before that, this planet was known as Ilāvṛta-varṣa. And after the king Mahārāja Bhārata-he was a great king*-he also left his kingdom at the age of twenty-four years, very young boy, for searching after spiritual realization, self-realization. That is the way of Vedic culture or Indian culture. Not that up to the last point of our death we shall stick to the worldly affairs. The Vedic culture divides the whole society into four social orders and four spiritual orders. The four social orders is division of intelligence. The most intelligent class of men are called the brāhmaṇas. And next than the brāhmaṇas are the kṣatriyas. It is all calculated on the basis of intelligence. There are different kinds of people all over the world on account of more or less intelligence. So brāhmaṇa means the most intelligent class of men. The scientists, the poets, the philosophers, like that. The religionists, they are called brāhmaṇas. And the administrator class is called the kṣatriyas, and the productive class are called the vaiśyas, and the laborer class, or the working class, is called the śūdra. That is natural division.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā... We are trying to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to preach Bhagavad-gītā. We have not invented something, but we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. Therefore, because we are presenting pure Bhagavad-gītā, people are accepting it very quickly. Unfortunately, before this in the Western countries there was so many translation of Bhagavad-gītā, but everyone's attempt is to make Kṛṣṇa-minus Bhagavad-gītā. They are commenting Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa; *kingdom of God without God. That is their attempt. But we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. We are presenting in that way. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa in the Western world. When I first went there the people were saying, "God is dead." Exactly in the same way as in our country also. We have been misled by so-called leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. There is a statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*But actually we are misled by the so*-called blind leaders. They have no vision what is the actual goal of life. Not only in a particular country-everywhere the same mischief is going on. Therefore, as a blind man, if he leads other blind men, there will be catastrophe, similarly, because we are led by blind men, the whole world is in catastrophe. Nobody is in peace. Everyone is unsatisfied in spite of so much material education, advancement of material education, because the missing point is Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31].



*So the Vedic literatures, the Vedic civilization, is pointing out to Viṣṇu. As you know in the Ṛg mantra, Ṛg Veda: tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are actually intelligent, brāhmaṇas, they are looking after self*-realization, making the target on the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. That is the missing point. In the Bhagavad-gītā we are taught by the Lord Himself to give us enlightenment, what is the aim of life. That aim of life the Lord Kṛṣṇa says Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā: vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. The ultimate target of life is to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā's teaching. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam.

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ

*vedānta*-vid vedānta-kṛd cāham

[Bg. 15.15]



*Unfortunately, we do not understand or do not try to understand or do not like to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If we try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then we have to accept a certain prescribed process. Not that because one is very erudite scholar academically, because one has got some degrees of the university he will be able to understand Bhagavad-gītā. It is not like that. Even a very layman, illiterate man, without any understanding of the Vedas, if he is a devotee, he can understand Bhagavad-gītā, whereas a person, very erudite scholar, with reputation, he cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. I shall cite one example when Lord Caitanya was traveling in the South India. When He was in the Raṅganātha temple of South India, one brāhmaṇa was reading Bhagavad-gītā, and his friends and neighbors knew that the brāhmaṇa was illiterate. He could not know even what is written there, but still he was trying to read Bhagavad-gītā. So some of his friends were criticizing him: "Hello, brāhmaṇa. How you are reading Bhagavad-gītā?" He knew that "They are criticizing," so he remained silent. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw that he was reading Bhagavad-gītā with transcendental ecstasy. He therefore approached him, "My dear brāhmaṇa, what you are reading?" The brāhmaṇa could understand that this gentleman, or this sannyāsī-Caitanya Mahāprabhu at that time was a sannyāsī*-He was not joking. He was serious. So he informed Him, "My dear sir, I am reading Bhagavad-gītā, but I am illiterate. My Guru Mahārāja asked me to read Bhagavad-gītā a few chapters daily, although he knew that I am illiterate. So I am trying to read Bhagavad-gītā, but I cannot actually read it." But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "But I sometimes see that you are in full ecstasy and sometimes you are crying." He said, "Yes, sir. I feel some ecstasy." "What is that?" He said that "As soon as I take this Bhagavad-gītā in my hand I feel that Kṛṣṇa is the chariot driver of Arjuna. So I feel that how Kṛṣṇa is kind that He has accepted a menial service of His devotee. He is driving the chariot and Arjuna is ordering Him, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: [Bg. 1.21] 'My dear Kṛṣṇa, Acyuta, please put up my chariot between the two soldiers.' And He is carrying out the order. So when I see that Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He can become an order carrier of His devotee, that is giving me feeling, and I am therefore crying." Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately embraced him and said, "My dear brāhmaṇa, you are actually reading Bhagavad-gītā." That is the fact. If after reading Bhagavad-gītā we do not realize what is Kṛṣṇa, what is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, what is our duty towards Kṛṣṇa, and what is the ultimate goal of life, then it is useless study. It has no meaning. Therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa prescribed it, how to read Bhagavad-gītā. Don't try to read Bhagavad-gītā made by some commentator who has no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. One who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he has no business to comment on the Bhagavad-gītā.



*That is the purport stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. You'll find in the Fourth Chapter, Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



*So Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, this Bhagavad-gītā was first spoken by Me to the sun-god, Vivasvān. Vivasvān spoke to his son Manu. And Manu, by his turn, spoke to his son Mahārāja Ikṣvāku." So if you take the history of Manu, then it becomes 400,000's millions of years ago Bhagavad-gītā was spoken. So Bhagavad-gītā is not a new thing. If we accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, if we believe in the words of Bhagavad-gītā, or Kṛṣṇa, then Bhagavad-gītā is the oldest. It is not a new thing. It was long, long ago spoken to the sun*-god Vivasvān. The sun-god, the president or the predominating Deity in the sun planet, is known as Vivasvān. So we have to study Bhagavad-gītā as it is by the paramparā system. As Śrī Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. Not that whimsically somebody purchases a book from the market and he takes his pleasure to make an interpretation of his own intelligence. Bhagavad-gītā was spoken by Kṛṣṇa. He did not leave it for being interpreted by an ordinary man. There is no need of explaining Bhagavad-gītā in a different way.



*Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad*-gītā we understand the statements very clearly:

*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*The meaning is very clear. Dharma*-kṣetre: the land of pilgrimage, the holy land of pilgrimage; *kuru*-kṣetre: the land which is known as Kurukṣetra. It is not fictitious. It is actual fact. Still there is Kurukṣetra, and people go there to perform religious ritualistic ceremonies. And in the Vedas it is written clearly, kurukṣetre dharmam ācaret. That is the statement of the Vedas. So from time immemorial this Kurukṣetra, land of Kurukṣetra is known as dharma-kṣetra. So what is the difficulty to understand dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1]? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous commentator says that "Kurukṣetra means this body." Where is the chance of interpreting like that, "Kuru-kṣetre is meaning body"? In no dictionary you will find that kuru-kṣetra is meant by body. Neither there is any chance. Interpretation is required when you cannot understand the word very clearly. In that case you can interpret. Just like the example is gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣapali: "There is a neighborhood which is known as ghoṣapali on the Ganges." Now one may question how on the Ganges, Ganges is water, there can be a neighborhood? Then you can interpret that "It is not on the Ganges water, but it is on the bank of the Ganges." Then there is chance of interpretation. But when you can clearly understand that "The thing is like this: Kurukṣetra is a place, and that is a place of pilgrimage," why should you interpret that Kurukṣetra means the body? In this way Bhagavad-gītā is being misinterpreted. In the Ninth Chapter, when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], one great commentator, very erudite scholar, he says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa; *it is to the unborn principle which is within Kṛṣṇa." But he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and he has the audacity to comment on the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa is not different from within and without. Kṛṣṇa, being Absolute, there is no such difference. As we have got difference, I, the spirit soul, is different from my body, but Kṛṣṇa is not like that. There is no such difference that Kṛṣṇa's soul and Kṛṣṇa's body. Kṛṣṇa is complete whole, pūrṇa. There is no such difference. The person who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, if he tries to comment upon the transcendental knowledge imparted by Kṛṣṇa, that is simply impudent. So in this way, if we try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then we become liberated, we become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the objective of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, "Arjuna, I am trying to deliver this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā unto you because you are My devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam [Bg. 4.3]. "Without you, nobody can understand what is the mystery of this Bhagavad-gītā knowledge."



*Therefore we should understand that Bhagavad*-gītā is meant for a person who is a devotee and dear to Kṛṣṇa, not for the demons, who are against Kṛṣṇa. The demons are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kaṁsa: his only business is making plan how to kill Kṛṣṇa. Just like Rāvaṇa: his only business is how to kill Lord Rāma. So there are two classes of men. One class of men is called demigod, devatā, and the other class is called demon. And who is demon and who is devatā? Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved deva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. One who is devotee of Lord Viṣṇu, he is called deva, demigod. All the demigods like Sūrya, Candra, Indra, and many others, they are all appointed servants of Kṛṣṇa. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, therefore, it is said,

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya

yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya

[Cc. Ādi 5.142]



*Very simple language: "The only master, only īśvara, parameśvara, is Kṛṣṇa." That is confirmed in the Brahma*-saṁhitā also:



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also it is confirmed, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Even Śaṅkarācārya, whom we call impersonalist, he has accepted in his comment on Bhagavad-gītā that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead appearing as the son of Devakī and Vasudeva." Similarly, all other ācāryas-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, and lately, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Of course, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is both ācārya and Kṛṣṇa Himself. Apart from His being Kṛṣṇa, if we take the part which He played as ācārya, that is, He also accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeṣa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. So we are to follow the ācāryas, not these casual interpretations, interpreters, to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then we will be misled. We cannot understand. Because Kṛṣṇa says that "The mystery of Bhagavad-gītā will be understood by you because you are My very dear friend." So... "Because you are My devotee." So unless one is devotee, how one can understand Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa says plainly in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yas cāsmi tattvataḥ: [Bg. 18.55] "Only through devotional service one can understand." Although Kṛṣṇa has explained in the Bhagavad-gītā jñāna, yoga, karma, and other things, dhyāna, but He specifically recommends that simply by devotional service you can understand Him. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, the same thing is confirmed:



*evaṁ prasanna*-manaso

*bhagavad*-bhakti-yogataḥ

*bhagavat*-tattva-vijñānam...

[SB 1.2.20]



*Bhagavat-tattva-vijñānam. It is a science. It is not a mental speculation or whimsical theorizing, that "God may be like this, God may be like that," and different philosophers will differ from one another. It is not like that. It is a great science. As two plus two equal to four, nobody can make it "Two plus two equal to five" or "Two plus two equal to three." Anywhere, science is science, fact. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā you cannot interpret differently. Just like "Two plus two equal to five"*-that cannot be. You have to accept "Two plus two equal to four."



*So if you try to understand Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, then you will be benefited. Our process of preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is only that we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. And you are practically seeing that all over the world this Bhagavad-gītā principles, Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord, is being accepted. All these boys and girls who are dancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, four years ago, four years back, they never heard of Kṛṣṇa. Of course, some of them knew Bhagavad-gītā, because Bhagavad-gītā is very widely read. But because Bhagavad-gītā was not properly presented, although for the last hundred or two hundred or more than that years, Bhagavad-gītā is widely read all over the world, there was not a single Kṛṣṇa-bhakta. But since Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, within four years there are hundreds and thousands of Kṛṣṇa-bhaktas. That is our point, that you present the thing as it is, without any adulteration. Just like milk, pure milk, if you supply, automatically there will be many customers. But if you sell milk adulteration, adulterating with water, you can cheat somebody for some time, but you cannot cheat all for all the time. That is not possible. So it is now necessary. It is India's culture. People are hankering after this culture, Kṛṣṇa culture. So you should prepare yourself to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then India will conquer all over the world by this Kṛṣṇa culture. Be... Rest assured. We are hankering after help from others. Our government men go there in America: "Please give us wheat. Please give us money. Please give us soldiers." Simply begging business. But here is a thing which (you) can give to them. Simply begging does not glorify your country. Try to give something to the others, to other countries. That is the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (applause)

Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*We are meant for doing welfare activities to the whole world. We are not meant for exploiting. We have something to give to the whole world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says, "Everyone who has taken birth as a human being of this, in this country, Bhārata*-varsa..." Specifically He said,



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Without being human being, nobody can perfect his life. Animal, they cannot make perfect his life. It is not possible. By nature they are stopped. But a human being, he can perfect his life. And especially in India there is treasure of knowledge, Vedic knowledge. Why you neglect it? And the summarized knowledge is Bhagavad*-gītā. So if we simply try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we understand immediately the science of God. And because we are all parts and parcels of God, we are actually hankering after uniting with God. That is our seeking. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). God is ānandamaya, and we, being part and parcel of God, or Kṛṣṇa, we are also ānandamaya. But we are seeking ānanda in a different atmosphere, in the material atmosphere. Therefore we are being baffled. The only remedy is that you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you will be happy.



*So it is the duty of every Indian to understand this science. It is a science, and spoken by the Lord Himself, and understood by all the ācāryas. Kṛṣṇa says ācāryopāsanam. We have to understand things through the ācāryas. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is not following the footsteps of the ācāryas, he cannot understand anything. Kṛṣṇa also says tad*-vijñānārtham. No, Kṛṣṇa... That is said in the Kaṭhopaniṣad: tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. So everywhere the same instruction is there, that "You approach a person who is coming in disciplic succession," evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2], "and try to learn Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Your life will be sublime. Your life will be successful." That is our mission. We have given so many important books. We have got magazines. If you want to understand through intelligence and philosophy, we have got volumes of books we can deliver. You try to understand. If you simply read our book Kṛṣṇa in two parts, I am sure you will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, undoubtedly. Or if you feel that you cannot read or you have no money to purchase book, never mind. Lord Caitanya has given you very simple path: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. If you chant this mantra with faith and devotion, without any offense, but simply by chanting you will realize yourself, you will realize God, Kṛṣṇa, and your life will be successful. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. These are the statements of Vedic literature. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one can cleanse his heart of all the dirty things. And as soon as the dirty things are moved, then you become liberated. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Immediately the blazing fire of material existence is extinguished.

*These are the processes recommended in the Vedas. We are simply preaching the authorized principles of the Vedas, and we request you all to accept it. Not accept it blindly, but take it with all your reason and intelligence. Just like Caitanya*-caritāmṛta says,

caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra

vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra



It is not that we are forcing something. By force you cannot do anything. That is artificial. That is not... But it is a fact that in everyone's heart there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness because that is pure consciousness. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, naturally, just like father and the son, there is an eternal relationship. Similarly, *Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead*, we have got eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is now covered by the dirty things of māyā. But as soon as we remove, we cleanse these dirty things from our heart, then immediately we can understand what is Kṛṣṇa and what is our relationship with spirit.



*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*Everyone's heart, there is Kṛṣṇa bhakti. Otherwise, how these Europeans, Americans, Canadians, Japanese, they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? We have Muhammadans also. Many Muhammadans, they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is to be understood that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or love for Kṛṣṇa, is existing in everyone's heart. It is simply to be awakened. Nothing more. How it is awakened? Śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya. if you simply give your aural reception to the Kṛṣṇa kathā. Kṛṣṇa kathā means what is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the Bhagavad-gītā, and Kṛṣṇa kathā means speeches and words which are spoken about Kṛṣṇa. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is also Kṛṣṇa kathā, and Bhagavad-gītā is also Kṛṣṇa kathā. One is directly spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa, end one is spoken by Lord, I mean to say, Vyāsadeva, the great saint Vyāsadeva, about Kṛṣṇa. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You preach this Kṛṣṇa kathā to everyone and then you become a spiritual master under My order."



*So if we strictly follow these principles, if we simply say what Kṛṣṇa says, what Kṛṣṇa desires... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If you cannot do anything, simply speak to your friend, "My dear friend, please surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." You surrender first of all yourself and speak to others, "Please surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." Your life becomes sublime and successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause) (end)



710406LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, April 6, 1971



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, we are very much thankful to you for your kindly participating in this great movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is especially meant for this age because for self*-realization, although there are many methods recommended in Vedic scriptures, in this age the greatest common factor for self-realization is simply chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Actually, our miserable condition of life is due to our forgetfulness. As I said yesterday, day before yesterday, this material existence is a condemned position of the living entities, exactly like a criminal is placed in the prisonhouse. Now, the whole Vedic literature is meant for getting us liberated from this condition of life. So far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, the same aim is there because at the ultimate instruction, Lord Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the ultimate goal. We have to come to that point, to surrender unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It may take hundreds of years or hundreds of births, but unless we come to that point, our life is simply frustration. Śrama eva hi kevalam. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said,



dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



You can execute. You may have some particular type of religious system which you are following. It doesn't matter. But if that following your religious system, if you do not come to the point of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or if you do not become interested in the matter of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you should know it that your performances of all religious ritualistic ceremonies are simply waste of time.



*So how to come to the point of surrendering to the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is taught in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. So I shall... I have given you some introduction to the Bhagavad-gītā, that this Bhagavad-gītā contains subject matter relating to God, to the living entity-īśvara, jīva*-and prakṛti, and the time factor, and karma. Now, in the beginning, the six chapters in the Bhagavad-gītā are simply devoted to understand what is the constitutional position of the jīva. The living entities are eternal. That is stated in the Second Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ... [Bg. 2.13]. [break]... dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin daiva āsura [Bg. 16.6]. Asmin loke, in this world, there are two kinds of living entities, not only in human society but also in animal society, in trees, in plants, in... There are 8,400,000 species of life-aquatic, plants, trees, reptiles, insects, birds, beasts, then human beings, civilized human beings, noncivilized human beings. And altogether, there are 8,400,000 species of life, and they are divided into...[break]

*...man's body. So... But I am the same. I can remember some of the incidences of my childhood, of my boyhood, of my youthhood. Therefore I am permanent. That is the real understanding of the living entity. These things have been explained very vividly. And in the Sixth Chapter Lord Kṛṣṇa recommended how to practice yoga. Yoga is the beginning of linking up our lost relationship with the Lord, yoga. Yoga means adding, addition or linking. Because we are now forgotten... The yoga system, any yoga system, means... Bhakti*-yoga, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga-there are different names of yogas-but actual fact is how to link up our lost relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is called yoga. Yoga indriya-samyamaḥ. Indriya. Because we are being deviated from our eternal relationship with God, Kṛṣṇa, on account of our too much being engaged in sense gratification. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām [Bg. 2.44]. Lord says, Kṛṣṇa says, "Those who are too much after bhoga and aiśvarya, material enjoyment and material opulence," prasaktān āṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām, "whose heart has been taken away by the process of sense gratification, for them, it is very difficult to be situated in samādhi." Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. So yoga, yoga means to control the senses. Those who are too much in the bodily concept of life, for them, this haṭha-yoga is prescribed just to control the sense by some mechanical way. You sit down, āsana, prāṇāyāma, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, pratyāhāra. There are eight different stages of fulfilling the yoga practice and then coming to the position of samādhi. Samādhi means fully situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real samādhi. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gata-manasā. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gata-manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. This is the definition of yogi. They are in meditation, and the mind, being absorbed in the thought of Viṣṇu, and yaṁ paśyanti yoginaḥ. The yoginaḥ, by controlling the senses, concentrating the mind upon Viṣṇu, they become yogi. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gata-manasā: mind is absorbed in the thought of Viṣṇu. That is perfection of yoga. So that is one method. Those who are too much, I mean to say, thinking of this body, for them, this haṭha-yoga system is prescribed. But the aim of that haṭha-yoga system is to see or search out the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, and by this yoga practice, by samādhi, one is situated constantly seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead Viṣṇu. That is samādhi.

*But there is another method, supreme method. That will be explained in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad*-gītā. At the end of the Sixth Chapter the conclusion is,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

madgatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*"Anyone who is always thinking of Me within his mind," śraddhāvān, "not mechanically, but with faith and love," śraddhā, and bhajate*-bhajate means bhaja sevayam, engaged in the service-"such person is the first-class yogi." That is recommended by Kṛṣṇa. And in the bhakti-yoga system, the same thing is also recommended:



*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yam śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



*This is spoken in the Brahma*-saṁhitā by Lord Brahmā. He says that "The devotee whose eyes are smeared with the ointment of love of Godhead..." Just like we sometimes use surma for clarifying our eyesight, similarly, one whose eyesight is purified... We have to purify the position of our senses in order to perceive. With our present senses, materialistic senses, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. He is not... Kṛṣṇa is not perceivable by our material senses. "Then why you are troubling so much, because you have nothing but material senses?" No. It can be purified. How it can be purified? By love of God. When you evolve your dormant love of Godhead, your vision becomes different. That is called premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. They are also yogis. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ [Bg. 6.47]. The same process. Either you go through the haṭha-yoga process or jñāna-yoga process, the ultimate goal is Kṛṣṇa, ultimate goal is Viṣṇu. And if we miss this point, then... The Bhāgavata says,



*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*So the verdict of all śāstras, Vedic literatures, is aiming how to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the version of all Vedas. So Kṛṣṇa here in the Seventh Chapter, recommending personally. Kṛṣṇa is teaching the process how you can understand Kṛṣṇa. You haven't got to learn some art and method how to understand Kṛṣṇa from anyone else. You can understand directly from Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. The Bhāgavata says, athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi [SB 10.14.29]. Without Kṛṣṇa's mercy, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. The Vedas also says, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena: "One cannot understand the Supreme Soul simply by lecturing." Pravacanena. If one is very expert in lecturing, it does not mean that he has realized Kṛṣṇa. Na medhayā. Or if one has very good brain-a great scientist, great philosopher*-he can understand Kṛṣṇa? Veda says, "No." Na medhayā na bahunā śrutena: "If one is very learned in Vedic literatures, he also cannot understand Kṛṣṇa." But one who is favored by Kṛṣṇa or when Kṛṣṇa reveals Himself to somebody, being satisfied with his devotional service, he can understand Kṛṣṇa; *nobody else. Therefore the process ultimate comes to the bhakti*-yoga. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that nobody understands Kṛṣṇa.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*To understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvataḥ, it is very difficult. Out of many hundreds and thousands of people one tries to make his life successful by spiritual advancement, by accepting so many processes, jñāna*-yoga, karma-yoga, dhyāna-yoga. And out of many perfect persons..., or, not perfect. Out of many persons who have succeeded in such processes, one may understand Kṛṣṇa. That is difficult also. So without Kṛṣṇa's mercy... The conclusion is: without Kṛṣṇa's mercy, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is futile to explain Kṛṣṇa, to comment on Bhagavad-gītā, without being a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. It is not that because one is very learned scholar or because one is very learned scientist or philosopher... Without any Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not possible for him to understand Kṛṣṇa. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi [SB 10.14.29]. Na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan. Others, they may go on speculating for thousands and thousands of years; still, they will not be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



Therefore Kṛṣṇa, in the Seventh Chapter, He is teaching how to understand Kṛṣṇa, how to realize Him. That realization, He says,

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



"My dear Arjuna, now I shall speak to you how you can understand Me thoroughly." Of course, it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly. That is not possible. But still, as far as our knowledge is concerned, we can get an idea of Kṛṣṇa if we follow these instructions. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited; *we are limited. Therefore, however we may become advanced, it is not possible for us to understand the unlimited. That's a fact. But still, we can understand to some extent by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, not otherwise. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mayy āsakta*-manāḥ. One has to develop his mind being always attached to Kṛṣṇa. Āsakta. Āsakta means attachment. This āsakti is also not attained very easily, but there is a process. If we follow the process, as recommended by the authorities, then there is way. And one who is serious to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa, they must follow the methods prescribed by the mahājanas. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you follow the footsteps of great personalities, great ācāryas, then that is the way. You don't manufacture your own way. Then you will be frustrated. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So who can be greater mahājana than Kṛṣṇa? All mahājanas, they are great devotees of Kṛṣṇa; therefore they have become mahājanas. Just like Svayambhū, Lord Brahmā, Nārada Muni... Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. Śambhu, Lord Śiva. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ kaumāraḥ, kapilo manuḥ. Kaumāra, the four Kumāras, Sanat Kumāra, Sunanda, these four Kumāras, and kumāraḥ kapila, Kapiladeva, the original propounder of Sāṅkhya philosophy, Kapiladeva; *and Manu, you know, Manu*-saṁhitā, the law-giver to the mankind, Svayambhuva Manu, Manu. And Prahlāda Mahārāja, whose instructions we were discussing in the morning. Prahlādo janaka-rāja bhīṣma, the grandfather of the Kurus. Vaiyāsaki, Śukadeva Gosvāmī; or Bali Mahārāja, a grandson of Prahlāda Mahārāja, he is also an authority. And Yamarāja, he is also authority. So we have to follow these authorities. Otherwise, dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām: we cannot understand the secrecy of religion. So all these twelve mahājanas, they are great devotees of the Lord. Therefore they have become mahājanas, authorized persons.



*Now here Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, taking compassion on the fallen souls of the Kali-yuga, He is personally instructing. How much fortunate we are. Although we are born in this age, fallen age of Kali-yuga, still, we are so much fortunate that Kṛṣṇa personally is taking interest how to teach us. He comes personally as He is, Lord Kṛṣṇa. And still, when He is misunderstood, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11], again He comes as a devotee, Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya was detected by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī:

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*He understood that Lord Caitanya is no other than Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He has appeared as a devotee just to deliver love of Kṛṣṇa to everyone. Kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te. Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Godhead, love of Kṛṣṇa, one who delivers, one who gives in charity the love of Godhead, he is called mahā-vadānya, the greatest of all munificent persons. Namo mahā-vadānyāya. So there is a program of Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes He comes Himself, sometimes He comes as a devotee, sometimes He leaves behind Him instructions like Bhagavad-gītā, and sometimes He authorizes somebody to preach this cult. Of course, anyone who is a sincere devotee, he is authorized. That Kṛṣṇa, as Lord Caitanya, has said personally, āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Our only business is to follow the superiors. Just like a faithful servant, if he simply follows the instruction of the master, then he is perfect. If he does not adulterate the instruction of the master, then he's perfect.



*It is not that those who are preaching this Kṛṣṇa cult, they are all perfect. There may be many deficiencies. Any conditional soul has got four deficiencies naturally. He is to commit mistakes. However great man he may be, surely, because he is conditional soul, he'll commit mistake. You know. In our country Mahatma Gandhi, he was a great man undoubtedly, but he also committed mistake, so what to speak of us? A conditioned soul must commit mistake. And he must be illusioned. To accept something as something else, that is called illusion. Just like illusion, best example of illusion, is given that māyā*-marīcika, to accept water in the desert. An animal sees that there is water in the desert, and being thirsty, he goes after the water, but the water also makes progress, and he also makes progress. In this way he dies. That is called illusion. Actually, there is no water, but he is fleeing after water. So for conditioned soul these are the defects. He is to commit mistake, he is illusioned, and he has got a cheating propensity also. Everyone is thinking in transaction that "I have cheated that man very nicely. In business transaction I have gained; he has lost." And of all the deficiencies, most important deficiency is that our senses are imperfect. We say, "I want to see God," but we forget that our eyes are so imperfect that I cannot see in the nearest eyelid. As soon as I close my eyes, I do not see the eyelid. This is the power of my seeing. Therefore we should not be so much proud of our seeing power that we'll say that "I want to see God. Can you show me God?" This is not possible.

So these four deficiencies of conditioned soul are there; therefore we cannot have perfect knowledge by our mental speculation. That is not possible. We have to receive knowledge from authorities. That is the process. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If we receive knowledge... Our process is that we are trying to receive knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the greatest mahājana, the greatest authority, and if we follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then we are perfect. The same example, as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



This is necessary. It is not that you have to become completely perfect by following certain process. If you simply perfectly follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then you become perfect. Other processes, yoga, dhyāna, karma, jñāna... There are many processes to make oneself perfect, but even becoming perfect, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Yoginām. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Siddhaye means perfection. Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. Even you become perfect, still, it is doubtful whether you have understood Kṛṣṇa. This is the position.



*Therefore the conclusion is that if you simply follow the perfect instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then automatically you become perfect, however imperfect you may be. That is our duty. It is not very difficult. Just like a child, a boy, a child. He's asking father, "My dear father, what is this?" An intelligent child questions like that. The father explains, "This is this," and the child accepts. Then his knowledge is perfect. But if he accepts the instruction of the father or mother, immediately he becomes perfect. There are many other examples. Just like a child wants to know who is father. The mother says, "My dear child, this gentleman is your father"-that is perfect knowledge. But if the child wants to research who is his father, it is impossible to find out. Similarly, if we want to know the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa, or God, we have to take instruction from the supreme father, not speculating, just like by speculating we cannot understand our ordinary father without the instruction of mother. If you go on speculating, "He may be my father. He may be my father. He may be father," go on speculating, but you will never understand who is your father. But you accept the authoritative statement of your mother, that "He is your father"*-that is perfect knowledge. That process should be accepted. Otherwise, our position is very precarious.

*ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.136]



*These, our present senses, are very blunt, imperfect. It is to be purified by sevonmukha, being eager to serve Lord Kṛṣṇa. Then our senses will be purified. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam means without any contamination. At the present moment our senses are contaminated. I am thinking in so many different consciousness. I am thinking in consciousness of nationality, community, society, friendship-so many ways-but without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore our consciousness is impure. We have to be freed from all the designated consciousness. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not a kṣatriya. I am not a sannyāsī. I am not a brahmacārī. I am not a gṛhastha." In this way He denied His identity to all these eight kinds of forms and stages, varṇāśrama. Then He said that gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa, who is maintainer of the gopīs." This is the identification of Caitanya [Cc. Madhya 13.80].



*So we have to follow the mahājanas, great personalities or a great devotee like Caitanya Mahā..., that "I am also the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is our real identity. This is called mukti, liberation. As soon as we understand that "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa," this identification is ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am not this." Brahmāsmi, this concept of life, that "I do not belong to this material world. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul..." So without being spirit soul, how we can become servant of the supreme spirit? Just like without being fire, you cannot remain in the fire, similarly, without becoming Brahman, how we can serve the Supreme Brahman? So this is Brahman realization. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Now, after being purified, what is your position? Not that you become imperson. There are philosophers, that when one becomes identified with Brahman, he becomes immediately imperson. No. We keep our personality. We are never imperson. All of us are individuals. Kṛṣṇa is individual. We are sitting here. We are all individual. So we keep our individuality, but our senses become purified. That is called mukti. Bhāgavata gives the definition of mukti: mukti hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. What is mukti? Mukti means when one gives up his engagement, activities, hitvā anyathā rūpam, identifying himself with something material, and he is engaged in his own original, constitutional position, and that is called mukti. The original constitutional position is every living entity is a part and parcel of the Supreme Person. I have given you several times example. This is stated in the śāstras also. Just like this finger is my part and parcel of this body. It is the duty of the finger to serve the whole body. I want to do like that; *the finger helps me. That is the duty of the finger. If the finger cannot do it, then it is to be understood that he is diseased. It is diseased. As soon as the finger cannot give me regular service, it is to be understood that it is diseased. Similarly, any person who is not giving service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is diseased, materially diseased. He has to be cured. Therefore the śāstra says, sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Just suppose I am a great patriot. I am giving service to my country. That's very good. But I am creating many enemies at the same time because there are other persons who are also interested in their country or community. Therefore that kind of service is not perfect. That is service with designation because I am thinking... I am spirit soul, I am Brahman, I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, or God, but I am thinking that "I am servant of this country, this community, this society, this..." so many things. So one has to become free from the designation. Then his senses will be purified. At that time, with that purified senses, when he renders service to the Lord, that is called bhakti. That is called bhakti.

*Bhakti is not a sentiment. It is practical. It is practical, to engage... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is certified by Kṛṣṇa as bhakto 'si, "My devotee." Does it mean that he was sitting idly? He has gone to Himalaya? No. He was serving Kṛṣṇa personally as a fighter. That is required. That is bhakti. Some gentleman criticized, "Swamijī, your bhakti cult will make people dull because they will simply sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And "No, you have not seen a bhakta. You are misguided," I replied. In our India, two histories are there: the history of Rāmāyaṇa and the history Mahābhārata. And there were two great battles: fight with Rāvaṇa and Kurukṣetra fighting. In these two fightings the heroes were Vaiṣṇavas: Hanumānjī and Arjuna. They are still worshiped as the great Vaiṣṇavas, Vajrāṅgajī and Arjuna. So it is a mistake. Here is the definition of bhakti: tat-paratvena nirmalam, "When your senses are purified by devotional service." Not that your senses are wiped out in mukti. No. The senses are there. It cannot be wiped out. Simply it is purified. Just like if you have got some disease-the same example*-in your finger, it is painful. You cannot render service. But when the finger is cured by treatment from the disease, it again gives service. Similarly, those who are not engaged in the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, they are supposed to be diseased. The degree may be different, that one is very highly diseased, another is very slightly diseased. It doesn't matter. But he is diseased. Therefore this is the curing method. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. When He said? When he was cured of the disease. Kṛṣṇa asked him... (end)



710407LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, April 7, 1971



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Perhaps this meeting will be ended tomorrow and we shall have a nice procession to Chowpati at 4 p.m., and I hope you will all join us as you are usually doing. Actually, according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu and according to the Vedic instructions, this movement should be continued in every city for twenty-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not say that it should be occasional, temporary. He says that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā. Sadā means always. Similarly, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says also, nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. One has to cleanse all the inauspicious things within our hearts. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says also the same thing, that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. We have to cleanse the dirty things accumulated in our heart since time immemorial. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, anādi-karama-phale, pori' bhavārṇava-jale. We do not know when we have begun this conditioned life in this material world. You cannot trace. That is impossible, because this life is not only in this creation, but it is coming from another creation. Suṣupti. Now the creation is going on since the birth of Lord Brahmā, and it will continue for so many millions of years. Again it will be annihilated. As you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This creation takes place exactly like your body, my body. The creation of this body takes place at a certain date. That is the beginning of history. But time is immemorial, I mean to say, eternal. It is all relative truth. The history is relative. Just like my life begins, this body begins somewhere in 1896-something like that*-and it ends somewhere. That time limit is relative to my body. Similarly, there is Brahmā's body. That relative time is long, long duration. As you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Brahmā's life is described by Kṛṣṇa, sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. This Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara, Kali, four yugas, it comes to about forty-three lakhs of years. So combine together, if you multiply it by one thousand, that is the duration of one day's life of Brahmā. Similarly, he has got night. This is only daytime, twelve hours. The similar period, night, that makes twenty-four hours. Then again one month, thirty days and nights. Similarly, one year, twelve months. Similarly, one hundred years. So his duration of life is also one hundred years, but because it is a different person, that truth is relative according to that person. That is scientifically admitted: everything is relative truth, nothing absolute truth.



*So we are... It is a fact that we are in a conditioned life. It is not absolute. And the, Kṛṣṇa, He is absolute. He is never conditioned, as we have explained that the three qualities of this material nature are emanation from Kṛṣṇa, but He is not affected by the qualities. Therefore He is called nirguṇa. Nirguṇa, nirākāra, does not mean that He has no form or He has no quality. He has no material qualities, nor He is affected by the material qualities. And ākāra... He is not nirākāra as we understand. We understand nirākāra means formless. But Kṛṣṇa is not formless. Kṛṣṇa has form. That is transcendental form, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His body is eternal and full of bliss, transcendental bliss, and full of knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa's feature. So we have also got minute quantity of Kṛṣṇa's qualities because we are minute particles of Kṛṣṇa, but that is now covered by māyā. This māyā means... When we forget our actual relationship with Kṛṣṇa, that is called māyā, false egotism. Falsely I am thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this," "I am that." These are all false designations. Real identification is "I am Kṛṣṇa's." I have repeatedly said. When this realization is achieved, that mahātmā is su-durlabhaḥ, very rare. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Who? One who understands that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "Vāsudeva is the origin of everything." Kṛṣṇa is the origin.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



Cause of all causes. That is being explained by Kṛṣṇa Himself personally. You are hearing about God from God personally. How it is that you do not understand what is God? That means you do not try to understand it or you are misled by duṣkṛtina. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. This śloka we have discussed partially last night.



*So anyone who is trying to divert people's attention from Kṛṣṇa to non-Kṛṣṇa... That is the business of the modern so-called philosophers and educationists or religionists. They'll continue to read Bhagavad-gītā life long but will interpret in a different way so that people may not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is their business. Such persons are called duṣkṛtina. They are themselves also not ready to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, and they are misleading others also not to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is their business. Such persons are duṣkṛtina, miscreants, rogues, rascals, those who are deviating people in other ways. A great scholar-I do not wish to name*-he is writing in his commentary, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "You just become My devotee." Mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: "You just worship Me and offer your obeisances unto Me. In this way you will get Me. You will achieve Me." The commentator says... The so-called learned commentator says, "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person but it is the Absolute Truth which is within Kṛṣṇa." That means he is dividing Kṛṣṇa from the Absolute Truth. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no other truth, great truth, than Myself." And he says, "Something greater than Kṛṣṇa within Śrī Kṛṣṇa." That means it is clear that he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and he has the courage to comment on Bhagavad-gītā. That is the pitiable condition. One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he is daring to write comments on the Bhagavad-gītā. That is misleading. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, duṣkṛtina. They will produce volumes of books. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśaḥ [SB 1.5.10]. Bhāgavata says that "You can produce volumes of books with nice literary, metaphorical arrangements." Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśaḥ na pragṛṇīta karhicit. The Bhāgavata says that "You can produce a nice book by mental concoction and speculation with nice grammatical and metaphorical arrangement, but if there is no glorification of Kṛṣṇa, then it is..." What is, like that? Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham: "This is a place where you throw away all nasty things." After your mucus or any, all nasty things you throw away, the crows will come there. They will enjoy. Therefore Bhāgavata says, "Such literary productions where there is no glorification of the Supreme Lord, it is just like the enjoyable spot of the crows." But there is another class of birth who are called swans, rāja-haṁsa. They will not come there. They will not come there and enjoy with the crows. This is natural division. They will go in a place where there is very clear reservoir of water, nice trees, nice fruits and flowers, nice birds, mānasa-tīrthas, mānasa-gaṅgā, like that. They will enjoy there. Similarly, this mental speculation, huge, huge books, will be enjoyed by a class of men who are compared with the crows. But glorification of Kṛṣṇa will be enjoyed by a class of men who are called swans or paramahaṁsas.

*So Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they are meant for paramahaṁsa-sādhika-caraṇam, for the paramahaṁsas. Those who are duṣkṛtina, miscreant, crows, they cannot enjoy what is the taste of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna... When He was teaching to him beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, He said, bhakto 'si me priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: "Because you are My devotee, because you are My friend, very dear friend, therefore I am disclosing you the mysteries, rahasyam." Not anybody can understand Bhagavad-gītā. It is not possible if he does not follow the principles adopted by Arjuna. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. That is the way of studying Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise, those who are duṣkṛtina, they will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā for making their business and flatter some other duṣkṛtina miscreants also to mislead them. Because other miscreants, they want to be misled, the asuras. Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. What is the āsuri-bhāva, demonic tendency? The demonic tendency is that "I am God." That is called demonic tendency, falsely thinking that "I am God." In spite of all education, they have not the little sense that how he becomes a God. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. We have got His activities. He married sixteen thousand wives, and He constructed sixteen thousand palaces, and He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms. Here is one God. And you are or I am sitting here; *I cannot expand up to my apartment also, and how I am expecting to be called as God? These are the test. But these people are popular because certain class of men, āsuri*-bhāva, they also want to be cheated like that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: [Bg. 7.15] "Those who are miscreants, those who are rascals, mūḍha, narādhama, lowest of the mankind, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, and stolen of his knowledge by māyā, such persons, because they are asuras, demons, they do not surrender unto Me." So we have to take it from the statement of Kṛṣṇa that anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, who does not surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, they are to be understood under these classifications.

Then here is one commentation by a learned scholar and devotee, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana. He said, nanu cettvām eva prapannā vimucyante, tarhi paṇḍitā api kecit kim iti tvāṁ na prapadyante. Now, if Kṛṣṇa has said simply by surrendering unto Him, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te... Our business is, in the human form of life, how to get out of the clutches or conditions of māyā. We are actually trying to do that. All the scientific improvement, material advancement of knowledge, means that we are trying to avoid the conditions imposed by material nature. That is actually we are doing. Why you have invented this electric fan? Call it, that is material science improvement. Because in the excessive heat we are troubled. And wherefrom this excessive heat comes? It comes from the material nature. Therefore our struggle for existence is to fight with the impositions of the material nature. So Kṛṣṇa says that in this way fighting, you cannot get out of the clutches of māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. It is very difficult. You may have hundreds and thousands of electric fans, but still you will have to feel the effect of excessive heat. You cannot avoid it. Similarly, you may have hundreds or thousands of heating arrangements; *still, you have to feel the effects of the cooling effect of winter season. You cannot... Mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. We have traveled all over the world. I have seen different climatic influence, how people are suffering. In the Western countries they are thinking that "Indians are very happy because the country is very warm," and we are thinking that "The Western people are very happy because the country is very cold." But nobody is happy; *that is a fact*-neither the Westerners nor the Easterners-because all of them under the grip of māyā. That is a fact. So in this way you cannot escape the stringent laws of māyā, or material nature. That is impossible. That is said by Kṛṣṇa Himself. It is not my statement. Kṛṣṇa says, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot escape. Suppose you are escaping by some arrangement, by heating arrangement, by cooling arrangement. But that does not mean by that process you will escape the actual laws of material nature. Just like we have got cold storage. We keep fruits and other things in the cold storage. It looks that it is keeping fresh, but the decomposition method is not stopped there. As soon as you take out from the cold storage, it is all rotten. So you cannot escape the actions or reactions of material nature by these methods. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. It is very difficult, duratyayā, most difficult task to get out of the, I mean to say, regulative principles of material nature. Then how it is possible? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Simply by surrendering unto Me one can do it."

*So the idea is that... Just like one man is suffering from some disease. The doctor is giving, physician is giving, some medicine and some diet. So if we follow the directions of the physician and eat the diet prescribed by him, there is hope of curing the disease. This is one way. And another person who is suffering from disease but does not care for the physician's instruction or any medicine, he is going on. He is certainly destined to die. As you can understand, similarly, in this material world, both the devotees and nondevotees are there. The devotees, they are trying to be cured from this material disease, and the nondevotees, they do not care for it. They are therefore continuing suffering. We should understand in this way, that... Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana questions that "If by surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa we can become out of the clutches of māyā, why the paṇḍitas, why the learned scholars, scientists, and philosophers do not do that?" So he says that tatrāha na mām iti, duṣṭaś ca te kṛtinaḥ, śāstrārtha*-kuśalāś ceti duṣkṛtinaḥ ku-paṇḍitās te māṁ na prapadyante śrutiś caivam āha. He is giving evidence from the Vedas how these rascals, they think of themselves as very learned. In the Vedas it is said, avidyāyām antare vartamānaḥ svayaṁ dhīraḥ paṇḍitaṁ manyamānaḥ: "There is avidyā, nescience, ignorance, within, but they are thinking that 'I am very learned.' " That is our another disease. One disease is the troubles and conditions offered by the material nature. So Kṛṣṇa says that in this material world, so long we are, we have to execute the devotional service. But we may not be disturbed by these material conditions. That was advised to Kṛṣṇa, (to) Arjuna.

*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino (nityās)

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



*Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. So a devotee, his business is that "Because I have got this material body and because I had my past misdeeds, although I am suffering, it does not matter. It comes and goes. It does not matter. Let me do my duty." That is advice of Kṛṣṇa. A devotee is not disturbed by the material condition. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su*-samīkṣamāṇo [SB 10.14.8]. If there is some reverse condition of life, a devotee thinks, "It is also grace of the Lord because I am minimizing. With minimum trouble, I am minimizing the effects of my past misdeeds." They think like that. So persons who are not devotees, they do not know that only Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He can get me relieved from these material clutches. There is no other way. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. We cannot get relief from these clutches of material world unless we surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa therefore says very clearly, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. That is the ultimate end of this Kṛṣṇa philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. We have to ultimately surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, there is no escape. But those who are miscreants, those who are mūḍhas or narādhamas, they do not do it.



But there are other classes of men who are described in the next paragraph. He says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*These are the classifications of the demons, those who are atheists, faithless and do not accept the Supreme Personality, their description. But there are others. Not that everyone is asura. There are devatās also. Two classes of men are always there: devatā and the asura. So what are the devatās? Catur*-vidhā bhajante mam janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna [Bg. 7.16]. There are four classes of men whose background is pious activities. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. The other word is duṣkṛtina, miscreants who are always engaged in sinful activities. And there are others also who are always engaged in pious activities. Therefore śāstra recommends to be engaged always in pious activities: "You do this. You do that. You go to the temple. You take early morning bath. You take bath in the Ganges. You take bath in the Yamunā." That is the basic principles of Indian culture, to make all people sukṛtina. Because without becoming pious, nobody can understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. The whole civilization is based on the process of making people pious. Because in another place we'll find Kṛṣṇa says that yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇam. Without puṇya-karma, without pious activities, nobody can enter into the devotional service.



*yeṣām anta*-gatam pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇam

*te dvanda*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ



*So this process should be adopted, how to become sukṛtina. Sukṛti means yajña-dāna-tapa-kriyā. One must perform sacrifices as prescribed in the śāstras, and they must give in charity their hard-earned money for Kṛṣṇa's cause. That is called dāna. Yajña, dāna, and tapasya. Tapasya. Just like tomorrow is Śrī Rāma-navami. The tapasya will be that all the devotees will observe fasting from morning till evening. This is called tapasya. Just like Ekādaśī day-there is no eating sumptuously. Simply you take little fruits and flowers. Try to avoid that also. You don't take even water. That is really ekādaśī. But because we cannot do it*-in the Kali-yuga the time is different-therefore we are allowed to take little fruit and milk, which is called anukalpa. These are different methods of tapasya. And yajña. This yajña, saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajñaiḥ, yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. In this age you cannot perform that big aśvamedha yajña, gomedha yajña, rājasūya yajña, so many other yajñas. It is not possible. First of all, you have no means to perform such yajñas, hundreds and hundreds of tons ghee required for putting into the sacrificial fire. You have not even a drop of your ghee. So forget all those yajñas. In this age, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyaiḥ. That is recommended in the śāstra:



*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



So these are pious activities, to perform yajña and to give in charity, yajña, dāna and tapasya, accepting voluntarily austerity. That will make you sukṛtina. And if you actually become sukṛtina, then you'll be inclined. Because the dirty things will be cleansed by these pious activities, then you will understand. Just like when the sky is cleared of all clouds you can see the sunshine very brilliantly, similarly, you can see Kṛṣṇa and God very brilliantly as soon as the cloud accumulated in your heart of all dirty things is cleansed. The process of cleansing in this age is this saṅkīrtana yajña. This saṅkīrtana movement is not unauthorized. It is authorized by the śāstras. And because they are being properly performed, it is taking effect all over the world.



*So we have to undergo all these processes recommended in the śāstras-yajña-dāna-tapa-kriyā. So this is yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. It is recommended in the Vedic literature that in this age, Kali-yuga, the form of the Lord as kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, that "He is always engaged in describing or glorifying Lord Kṛṣṇa." Who is that? Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the indicated incarnation in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam [SB 11.5.32]. You have seen Lord Caitanya's picture. He is always followed by many devotees chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, sāṅgopāṅgāstra pārṣadam, especially His associates Lord Nityānanda, Lord Advaita, and Śrīvas, and Gadādhara. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. These associates, they are Kṛṣṇa-varṇam always. The Lord Himself, Kṛṣṇa, He is always describing about Kṛṣṇa as devotee. He is teaching us how to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Just see how much merciful is Kṛṣṇa upon us. He is coming personally, instructing Bhagavad-gītā, and asking us, "Surrender unto Me. Give up all other business, all other so-called occupations. You surrender unto Me. I shall give you protection from all sinful reactions." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa..., mā śucaḥ: [Bg. 18.66] "Don't be worried. I'll take charge of you." But still, we do not surrender unto Him. Still, we say, "Oh, this is too much. Kṛṣṇa is demanding too much from us. No, no. We have many other gods. We can surrender there, or we can do our own business." Therefore Kṛṣṇa again comes as devotee, Lord Caitanya. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam. This time, just to hide Himself He is come in very fair complexion, goldenlike, tviṣākṛṣṇam. Kṛṣṇa, naturally He is blackish, but this incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He came not as blackish but akṛṣṇa, without being blackish. Pitā. That is also confirmed in the śāstra. So this body, this incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, who is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, but His bodily hue is not blackish, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam [SB 11.5.32], and He is always followed by His associates, sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam, such Personality of Godhead should be worshiped by yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ. This yajña should be performed. Because without performing yajña, you cannot become pious. So, because in this age there is no possibility of performing big yajñas, there is no qualified brāhmaṇas how to perform that yajña, there is no supply of pure ghee, you have no means how to arrange for such yajña-therefore, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, He is recommending this yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ*-this yajña at your home, in your office, in your factor, anywhere, without any cost. Simply you sit down together and clap on your hand and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (applause)

*So by performing this yajña, you become purified. Yajña-dāna. And so far dāna is concerned, that is, of course, different way. You can give in charity. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. You can make charity. Not that because you have no money, you cannot make charity. You can make charity. What is that? You can dedicate your life, prāṇaiḥ. Just like these boys and girls. They have not brought any huge amount of money for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has not attracted the richer class of America. Now they are little, little coming. But I have attracted the middle class. So they have not brought any money, huge amount of money, but they have dedicated their life, prāṇaiḥ. And those who have got money, they can contribute. Just like we are begging from door to door, "Please become a life member and contribute something so that this movement can be pushed on." Prāṇair arthaiḥ. So if somebody says, "Sir, I have no money, neither I can dedicate my life," then how he will perform the yajña? Prāṇair arthair dhiyā. You can give your intelligence: "So your movement, I appreciate your movement. So please do like this. I will take you to some friend who can help you." That is dhiyā, intelligence. And if you have no, if you cannot dedicate your life, if you cannot sacrifice any money, if you have no intelligence, then vācā, you can use your words. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You simply go to any friend and advise him, "Please surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." That is also sacrifice. Is there any difficulty or expenditure to accept this saṅkīrtanair yajñaiḥ prāyaiḥ, to accept this saṅkīrtana-yajña movement by anyone? Anyone can accept it, provided he is willing to do it. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice. It is meant for everyone. There is no discrimination. So far we Indians are concerned, we have got some responsibility. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa says... Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says*-He is Lord Kṛṣṇa also-bhārate-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra. Especially for the Indians. Indians have got special prerogative for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world. (applause)

*So why you are neglecting your duty? Prepare hundreds and thousands of preachers from India and send outside. This rascaldom, fighting with one another always, it will be forgotten. There will be one under this flag of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is need of such preachers. We should open regular school or teaching institution for preparing preachers all over the world. That is needed. This Bombay city is very nice city. You can do that. We can help you how to do it. Lord Caitanya Himself preached. Although He was very young man, at that time only twenty*-four years old, for preaching work He sacrificed everything. He sacrificed His nice, beautiful wife, He left His old mother, His popularity at Navadvīpa as a great scholar and beautiful boy, and He accepted sannyāsa just for the purpose of preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These are the examples. So Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, they were prime minister of the then government of Bengal. They sacrificed their post. They joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "Let us help You." Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī, he was the biggest zamindar of that time. His father's income was twelve lakhs of rupees per month. How rich he was. He sacrificed everything and joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. There were six Gosvāmīs: Rūpa, Sanātana, Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, Dāsa Raghunātha, and Jīva Gosvāmī, and Gopāla Bhaṭṭa. All, they were very stalwart men of that society. They sacrificed everything. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that

*bhārate*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



So there is need of this movement. So any intelligent man from India, first of all let him, I mean to say, made his life successful by understanding what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not difficult. The real purpose of this movement? To teach people how he can surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is the sum and substance of this movement. If one accepts this principle without any difficulty, he is immediately a preacher. But if he does not accept, he wants to understand the philosophy, we have got volumes of books. Try to understand through books, through philosophy, through science, how this movement is important, and try to join. That is our appeal to you. Now, I think, today we are ending. You shall bear in mind these principles of our philosophy and do your best how to help it.



Thank you very much. (applause) (end)



710410LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, April 10, 1971



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, (applause) we thank you very much for your kindly coming here and participating in this noble movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or saṅkīrtana movement. You'll be very glad to know that today I have received one letter from my disciple, Śrīman Kṛṣṇadāsa adhikārī, the in*-charge-of, commander, maṭha-command, or temple command, of West Berlin. He was negotiating with Russian Cultural Society, and one very important professor, he has invited us to lecture in Russia. (applause) So very soon I shall be going to Russia with some of my disciples. (applause)



Devotees: Haribol!



Prabhupāda: So gradually it will be realized that Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Don't take Kṛṣṇa as Indian or Hindu. Don't limit Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, Kṛṣṇa's activities are unlimited, Kṛṣṇa's devotees are unlimited, and Kṛṣṇa's field of activities, unlimited. So Kṛṣṇa says, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. (aside:) Why it is not working? Huh?



Devotee: The power is dead.



Prabhupāda:



apareyam itas tv anyāṁ

prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parāṁ

*jīva*-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



Yaya. Prakṛti. Prakṛti, the energy. Energy is feminine gender; therefore it is stated here yaya. Dhāryate jagat. We are, we living entities, we are superior energy, and the matter is inferior energy. Therefore dhāryate. We are enjoying or we are capturing this material energy. We are using in so many ways. Sayatana (?). Just (like) I am sitting on this material cushion or sitting on the material floor, using this material microphone or having material bedstead, car. In so many ways we are enjoying this material world, yaya. The same prakṛti. Both of them are prakṛtis, energy. One energy is called superior, and another energy is called inferior. Matter is inferior, and the living entities are superior. But in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, both of them are energies. The energies in their particular field of activities, superior or inferior... But still, in connection with Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Absolute Truth, for Him, there is no such distinction, superior and inferior.



Viṣṇu Purāṇa therefore says, viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. Originally, the energy of Kṛṣṇa is transcendental, spiritual.

viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

*avidyā*-karma-saṁjñānya

tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate

[Cc. Madhya 6.154]



*So Kṛṣṇa can change superior energy into inferior energy and inferior energy into superior energy. That is His omnipotency. As such, when Kṛṣṇa appears within this material world, even though He assumes a so*-called material body, according to the Māyāvādī philosophers, that is not material. He can change into spiritual. That is His omnipotency. Sambhavāmy ātmā-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. Just like the electrical engineer, the same electrical energy, he can use it for refrigerator and he can use it for heater. It is his manipulation. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, by His Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, He can turn this material world into spiritual world simply by changing the consciousness. That is in His power. Therefore anything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness should not be considered as material.



prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

*hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

*phalgu*-vairāgyaṁ kathyate



*That anything... Take for example, just like Māyāvādī philosopher, they say brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But jagat, not mithyā, but temporary. And still, even if it is mithyā, false, it can be turned into truth by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is possible. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa*-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that it can transform the matter into spirit. How? Not transform, but the faith or feature is changed. Consciousness is changed. The same example as we have several times recited, that you take an iron rod, put into the fire. It becomes warm, warmer. But when it is red hot, it is no longer iron; it is fire. If you touch that rod, hot iron, in any place, it will burn. Similarly, Vaiṣṇava, by his spiritual advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, makes the whole body spiritualized. Just try to understand the same example. By developing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can make your body spiritualized, completely forgetting all material activities. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5].



Then Kṛṣṇa says,

*etad*-yonīni bhūtāni

sarvāṇi iti upadhāraya

ahaṁ kṛtsnasya jagataḥ

prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā



*So Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of the material energy, the spiritual energy. And by combination of this material energy and spiritual energy, the whole cosmic manifestation is there. There are two kinds of energies working. Everyone can experience. Just like in my body, I am the spirit soul, and the body is matter, material. When combined together it is working wonderfully. A man is becoming a great leader, a great scientist, a great philosopher, how? So long the spiritual spark is there. As soon as the spiritual spark is gone, the same very body is no longer a great leader, a great scientist, or great philosopher. So both these energies are products of Kṛṣṇa's body. Just like the sunshine is the energy of the sun globe, and within the sun globe there is the sun*-god also. We get it from Bhagavad-gītā. In the Fourth Chapter there is mention of the sun-god: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvate [Bg. 4.1]. Vivasvān is the name of the sun-god. At present, the predominating leader, or the principle deity, in the sun planet is called Vivasvān. So he's a person. He's a person, and his globe is the sun globe. And from the sun globe, there is sunshine. Similarly, there is a planet which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. In the spiritual world there are millions of planets there. As we have got millions of planets here in this material world, millions of universes, similarly, the spiritual world there are millions of planets, globes, which are called Vaikuṇṭhalokas. And the topmost of the Vaikuṇṭhalokas is called Goloka Vṛndāvana or Kṛṣṇaloka. That is the original abode of Lord Kṛṣṇa. And from that globe, there is effulgence, which is bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. We get this information from Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadāṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Yasya prabhā. The brahmajyoti is the bodily effulgence of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Exactly the sunshine is the bodily effulgence of Vivasvān, it is being emanating, it is emanating from the sun globe, similarly, the brahmajyoti is emanating from Kṛṣṇaloka. And in that Kṛṣṇa, Brahman effulgence, so many universes and so many Vaikuṇṭha planets are growing exactly the same way as so many planets have grown from the sunshine. This is scientific.



So how Kṛṣṇa is ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8], you can understand it. If you study, if you take information from Vedic literature, if you attentively think over it, you'll very easily understand that everything is produced out of Kṛṣṇa's bodily effulgence or energy. Kṛṣṇa also personally says here,

*etad*-yonīni bhūtāni

sarvāṇi iti upadhāraya

ahaṁ kṛtsnasya jagataḥ

prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā



*Aham: "I am." The Māyāvādī philosophers cannot accommodate this idea, how a person can be the cause of creation, maintenance, and annihilation. But Kṛṣṇa here says that ahaṁ kṛtsnasya. Ahaṁ kṛtsnasya jagataḥ prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7], because He is the origin of all energies. We have already understood that the whole manifestation is nothing but, I mean to say, demonstration of the different types of energies of the Supreme Lord. That is confirmed in the Vedas: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. The Absolute Truth has varieties of energies, and they are so perfect and so perfectly working that it appears...Svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca. You take a flower, nice flower, how it is nicely painted, how it is symmetrically colored. But it is sprouting from the bud automatically. So we are seeing that if flower is coming out automatically... There is no such thing automatically. It is Kṛṣṇa's energy which is working there. It is Kṛṣṇa's energy. And if the energies are so perfect that we see that it is working automatically, that is because our energy is so limited. If I want to paint one nice flower, I have to arrange for so many things. I have to arrange for the colors, I have to arrange for the brush. I must have the requisite knowledge how to paint it. I have to devote some time for learning how to paint, then actually paint. So many things required. But Kṛṣṇa's energies are so perfect that it appears, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Flowers automatically. That we have to study. And when you concentrate in that study with bhāva, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa, how He is working, how He is the original source of everything. That requires little brain.



*Therefore unless one has got very fine brain, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Gross brain cannot understand. In order to make our brain and senses very purified and fine, we have to take to devotional service. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That fine brain and purified senses can be achieved. Just like you can get relief from diseased condition of life, similarly, the brain is already there; *it will become finer, it will become subtler to understand Kṛṣṇa when we are able to give up our all material designations. At the present moment I am thinking, feeling, and willing under different designations. I am thinking, "I am this body." I am thinking, "I am Indian." I am thinking, "I am American," "I am Russian," "I am Pakistani." These are upādhis. But if you practice devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you become free from this contamination of designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nirmalam means completely freed from all dirty things. These are all dirty things. As soon as I think that "I am this, I am that, I am that..." Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā we have understood that the body is simply just like a dress. So suppose I am dressed in orange color robes. If I think, "I am orange color," is that very nice intelligence? Similarly, as soon as I think in terms of my body, in my nationality, in my creed, in my being*-they are all designations. So purification of the senses made by devotional service, bhakti-yogena, nirmalam... That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also:

*tadā rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ

*kāma*-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

[SB 1.2.19]



*naṣṭa*-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu

*nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā

[SB 1.2.18]



*By daily, regular study or serving Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, anything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. These abhadras, this designations, can be eradicated simply by regular service to Bhāgavatam. Bhāgavatam means the person who is a devotee, he is also bhāgavata, and the literatures which describe about Kṛṣṇa, that is also bhāgavata. So we have to associate with devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. If you associate with devotees, with pure devotees... And who is a pure devotee?



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



*Those who are executing devotional service without any material desire. Not that I render service to Kṛṣṇa to fulfill some material desires. That is not pure devotee. Pure devotion is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam: [Cc. Madhya 19.167] simply take to such work and activities which will favorably dispose Kṛṣṇa. Sva*-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.46]. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. As soon as we simply take to such activities as will please the Supreme Personality of Lord, Personality of Godhead... Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. Ānukūlyena. As Kṛṣṇa becomes favorably inclined, we have to please Kṛṣṇa. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam.



*So we do not know what is Hari, what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, and what is our activity to please Him. That we have to learn. That we have to learn satāṁ prasaṅgāt, by association with devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. Just like if you are a businessman, suppose a sharebroker, if you are a member of the stock exchange, your business is flourishing. You get more opportunities. The scientists, they make some association. Every particular... The lawyers, they make an association, Bar Association. That is needed. The engineer, they make an association. The doctors, they make a medical club. Similarly, if you have to learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you have to admit yourself with the society for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is necessary. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt mama vīrya*-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Unless you associate with practical devotees, you cannot understand or you cannot relish the transcendental nature of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ. Pleasing, rasāyanāḥ. Relishing some mellows, transcendental mellows. How? Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. Simply in the association. Sādhu-saṅge sato vṛtte. Rūpa Gosvāmī instructs that,

utsāhān dhairyāt niścayāt

*tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt

*sādhu*-saṅge sato vṛtteḥ

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati



*If you actually..., if you are actually serious to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you must be very much energetic, utsāhān: "Yes, I shall learn this art verily in this life." You must be fixed up, dṛḍha*-vratāḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is called dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Bhajanti māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. That determination should be "Yes." Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, five-years-old boy. Nārada Mahārāja said, "My dear boy, you are king's son. You cannot undergo so much severe austerity. Why you are feeling so much insulted by your stepmother? Please go home." And Dhruva Mahārāja replied, "My dear sir, what you are saying is all right. But I am a son of kṣatriya. I am unpolite. I cannot accept your advice. I must see God. Please show me the way how I can get Him." That is determination, a five-years-old boy saying, "I must see God in this life. If you know something, how to do it, please explain that. Don't try to deviate me." That is determination.



*So that determination means utsāhā, "I must." That is necessary. Not that "When Kṛṣṇa is merciful, then I shall do." Kṛṣṇa is already merciful. But if we do not take it, then what Kṛṣṇa will do? Kṛṣṇa does not touch on your little individuality or little independence. So therefore we have... Just like when we earn money, we are very enthusiastic, similarly, if we want Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if we want to earn that position, go back to home, back to Godhead, we must be very much enthusiastic, utsāhān. And dhairyāt. Dhairyāt means patience. "Oh, I am executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to the rules and regulations. Still, I am not yet perfect?" So don't be impatient. Be patient. The example is that any woman desires a child. So when she is married, it is supposed that she will get a child. But if she wants immediately child after being married, that is not possible. She must be patient, then in due course she will be pregnant and there will be child. Similarly, if we are patient, at the same time, very much energetic, utsāhād dhairyāt, and tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. But we must take to the regulative principles by which we can make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt sato vṛtteḥ. And our occupation should be very nice, honest. Sādhu-saṅge, the sādhu-saṅge, in the association of devotees. These six things: utsāhād dhairyāt niścayād and sato vṛtteḥ, sādhu-saṅga, tat-tat-karma. These six kinds of devotional service will make you perfect. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. These six kinds of activities will make your devotional service perfect. Anything, if you want to do, if you want to learn, there are different regulative principles, anywhere. So similarly, for understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for entering into the kingdom of Kṛṣṇa, we have to adopt this means. And similarly, there are counteractivities also. The counteractivities also kill our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to be very cautious not to accept the counteractivities, but we have to take the favorable activities. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167].

So Kṛṣṇa says that,

mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat

kiñcid asti dhanañjaya

mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ

*sūtre maṇi*-gaṇā iva

[Bg. 7.7]



*"Everything is resting on Me just like the pearls are remaining on the thread." Kṛṣṇa is the thread, and all these universes, all this cosmic manifestation and their different activities in different planets, they are all resting on the thread of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is the original source of everything. How you can accept Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man? I do not know. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. They are described as mūḍhas. They do not know. Although it is all explained here in the Bhagavad*-gītā, but they will not accept Kṛṣṇa in that way. They will manufacture a different way of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are deviated. Therefore, after studying thousand times Bhagavad-gītā, they are as in darkness as they were in the beginning. That is the result. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation, without exercising your brain to manufacture something out of Bhagavad-gītā, then naturally you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and our life is successful. Here it is stated, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior factor than Me." Then how we can think of Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being? What is your answer? How do you form such idea? These are the challenges by Kṛṣṇa. And I cannot understand how Kṛṣṇa is accepted as ordinary person. Then either you don't believe in Bhagavad-gītā... That is a different thing. But don't try to malinterpret, wrongly interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way. That will not help you. You can propound your own philosophy as you like. Everyone has got the right. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "One cannot be a philosopher, muni, thoughtful man, unless he has got a different philosophy." That's a fact. Everyone wants to propound a type of philosophical method and tries to become famous. That is the natural way. But you make your philosophical presentation in different way. You have got right. But don't try to interpret in Bhagavad-gītā in your own way. That cannot be accepted. And that will not give you the effect of Bhagavad-gītā. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is.



*Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are not presenting Kṛṣṇa in a different way. Our only method is to present Kṛṣṇa as He is. That is our... If there is any credit for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or for us, now, our credit is that we are not adulterating Bhagavad*-gītā. We are simply presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And by Kṛṣṇa's grace it is being understood very easily all over the world, and they are accepting it, that one God, Kṛṣṇa; *one philosophy, Bhagavad*-gītā; and one hymn, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra; *and one nation, Kṛṣṇa conscious people. Just push this movement and the world will be happy. Don't create God: "Here is a incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." Sometimes we accept somebody as God because he says that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa. I am the same Rāma," believing on his word. All right, accept that he may be the same Rāma and same Kṛṣṇa. But when Kṛṣṇa is there, why should we accept an imitation Kṛṣṇa? Why? Suppose if you go to purchase some medicine in a drug shop and the shopkeeper says, "Here is a medicine, sir, which is equally good, but the price is very cheap. You can take it," and if you are sane man, you will say, "No, no. I don't want it. Give me that original. Why shall I take this? Let it be cheaper, but I don't want it." Similarly, why should we accept so*-called incarnation of Kṛṣṇa? We should accept Kṛṣṇa, original Kṛṣṇa. Original Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's words are identical. When you read Bhagavad-gītā, you are exactly in front of Kṛṣṇa, as Arjuna was in front of Kṛṣṇa while Kṛṣṇa was personally speaking. That is transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa. Why He has left this instruction? Because if we accept the teachings of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, immediately we are in presence of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the other day I cited the example of the illiterate brāhmaṇa. So that is transcendental way of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Take this formula. Kṛṣṇa says here that everything that is working in this material or spiritual world, they are different energies of Kṛṣṇa. He is the original source of creation, He is the original source of maintenance, and He is the original source of annihilation. Therefore nobody is greater than Him. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. Na anyat: "There is no other greater elevated." Kiñcid asti: "Not even one." You cannot say, "Here is something which is greater than Kṛṣṇa." That is not possible. Na anyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya, mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva. Just like in your necklace, pearl necklace, all the pearls are situated in the thread, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the thread and everything existing... This will be explained more explicitly in the Thirteenth Chapter.

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



*So all the śāstric conclusion is... Now, so far the universes are concerned, that is also stated in the Brahma*-saṁhitā:



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*So Govinda, the ādi*-puruṣa, whose plenary portion is Mahā-Viṣṇu. And what is Mahā-Viṣṇu's activity? That He is lying on the Causal Ocean, and while He is breathing, with His breathing only, innumerable universes are coming out. And innumerable universes are going into Him. In this way He is sleeping. That Mahā-Viṣṇu is the plenary portion of Kṛṣṇa. So we have to believe in the śāstras, and there is no other way for understanding Kṛṣṇa. What is beyond our imagination, beyond our mental cultivation, beyond the reach of our senses, we have to accept authority. Exactly in the same way, just like we have to accept somebody as our father simply on the version of mother, similarly, we have no information of Kṛṣṇa, but we have got Kṛṣṇa's books, we have got Vedic literatures, and if we study... Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: you have to see through the śāstras. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa and your life will be successful.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause) (end)



710411LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, April 11, 1971



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in today's meeting. And we are known practically all over the world as the Hare Kṛṣṇa people. Wherever we go, they immediately recognize us as the Hare Kṛṣṇa people. So I'll try to speak something about this Hare Kṛṣṇa people. This Hare Kṛṣṇa people means... Since I started this movement in 1967 in New York, very, in a small scale... In the beginning... I went there in 1965, and for one year I had no shelter, neither any means to maintain myself. I had some books only, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, and some way or other, I pulled on. In 1966 I started this movement after incorporation in New York under the state religious act, and I began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in a park in New York. What is called? Thompkins Square. Thompkins Square. And these young boys and girls, they began to assemble and chant and dance. This is the beginning. And when one well-known poet... Perhaps you know. He is Mr. Allen Ginsberg. He was also coming and joined with us. In this way, first of all we started our center in new York, Second Avenue, and then gradually expanded in San Francisco, in Montreal, in Boston, Buffalo, and Los Angeles. Now we have got fifty-two branches all over the world, including one in Tokyo, one in Hong Kong, in Australia, Sydney.



*Now try to understand what is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, recently it was started about five hundred years ago by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared in Bengal, West Bengal, in the district of Nadia, about sixty miles north of Calcutta. And He started this movement. This movement is, of course, not to be understood that Caitanya Mahāprabhu started it, something new. No. It is the oldest, oldest in this sense, that five thousand years ago Lord Kṛṣṇa spoke about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Bhagavad*-gītā. And if we go further, then from the statement of Bhagavad-gītā we understand it was started about forty millions of years ago, because in the Fourth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find, there is a statement given by Lord Kṛṣṇa:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

[Bg. 4.1]



*Vivasvān manave prāhur... (aside:) Don't sit like that. Manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. It is stated by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself that "First of all I spoke this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, yogam..." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam. And Vivasvān means sun*-god. As there is one god in this planet, maybe the president of United States or some other president, the predominating deity, similarly, in every planet there is a predominating deity. And the predominating deity, or the person, in the sun globe is called Vivasvān. So Vivasvān, his son is Manu. Manu means the father of the mankind. Manuṣya. The Sanskrit word, the man, called manuṣya. That means "of Manu." Man or manuṣya, these words have come from Manu. This Manu happened to be the son of Vivasvān. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. Vivasvān manave prāhur manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. And Ikṣvāku was the son. Mahārāja Ikṣvāku was the son of Manu. Therefore, the dynasty coming from Ikṣvāku Mahārāja, in which Lord Rāmacandra appeared, is called Sūrya-vaṁśa, because it is coming from the sun-god. The kṣatriya family, the royal family in India, there are two groups. One is coming from the sun-god, another coming from the moon-god. That is a long history, of course. But the point is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not new, something manufactured, concocted. It is the oldest because it is coming from sun-god, and taking it from Manu, it comes to the calculation, about forty millions of years ago.



*Now, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means the essence of all religious principles. What is religious principle? Religious principle means to abide by the laws given by God. That is called religious principle, simple word. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Dharma means the codes and the laws given by God." That is dharma, or religion. Just like in our ordinary life we receive the laws from the state or the king. The word given by the king or the state is accepted as law, and everyone has to abide by the law. Similarly, the order or the principle given by God is called religion. Religion without God is nonsense. Religion... Because religion means the codes of God. So if one does not accept the existence of God, naturally he has no religion. And according to Vedic principle, a man without religion is an animal. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Because in every civilized form of human society, you will find some sort of religion. It may be Christian religion, it may be Hindu religion, it may be Buddhist religion, or it may be Muhammadan religion, Jewish religion*-it doesn't matter. Any civilized form of human society must have a sort of religion. Otherwise it is animal society. What is the difference between animal and human being? The animals, they are engaged with the bodily necessities of life, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam: eating, sleeping, āhāra nidrā, and defending, and sex life. These are the bodily necessities. You have to eat something, you have to sleep for some time, you have to defend yourself from others' attack, and you must have sex enjoyment. These are bodily necessities. So these bodily necessities are there in the human society and the animal society. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etad paśubhiḥ narāṇām. Then what is the speciality of human society? The speciality of human society is that there must be some form of religion. In the animal society there cannot be any form of religion; therefore the śāstric injunction is that without any form of religion, a human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ.

*Now, we have to understand what is religion. Religion, as I have already told you, religion means the codes and words given by God, these codes and words coming from God in disciplic succession. According to our Vedic principles... That is the original principles of the world. Because at the present moment the history of the world cannot give any chronological account more than three thousand years. And what was the position of the human society beyond these three thousand years? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. From Mahābhārata history we can understand that the whole world, this planet, was called Bhāratavarṣa. Now Bhārata*-varṣa has come to a limited circle only, but formerly the Bhārata-varṣa was... The whole planet was known as Bhārata-varṣa. There was an emperor of the name Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name, or after his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Before that, this planet was known as Ilāvṛta-varṣa. So the Vedic civilization, I mean to say, before three thousand years, the whole world was under Vedic civilization, the Aryans. The Aryans, at least they were under Vedic civilization. And that Vedic civilization is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One friend was telling me that in Russia the word kṛṣṇa is there, and kṛṣṇa means beautiful. Somebody told me? You told me? Yes. And in Greek, I mean to say, what is called, dictionary, there is a word krista. And some of the Christians say that this Christ comes from the word krista. So there is a link. Of course, those who are philologists, they can find out what is the history of this word. But so far we have studied the history of the world, Kṛṣṇa was known all over the world. Kṛṣṇa was known all over the world. Therefore it is to be understood that everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

*So apart from this historical point of view, try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means pure consciousness. Just like water, when it falls down from the cloud, it is pure, and as soon as it drops or mixes with the muddy earth, it becomes muddy. It is not more clear. Similarly, we, as spirit soul, our consciousness is as pure as Kṛṣṇa is pure. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Gradually, as we contact the material contamination, we become different conscious. Just like we are sitting, so many ladies and gentleman here. Some of us thinking that "I am American," some of them are thinking that "We are Indian," some of them are thinking "German," or this or that-"I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black." In so many way we are. Our consciousness are polluted. Actually, my position is, as it is said in the Vedic literature, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman, or spirit soul." In the Bhagavad*-gītā we find that when a person becomes realized as Brahman, means spirit soul... Now I am identifying not with Brahman, but I am identifying with this body: "I am American," "I am Englishman," "I am Indian." Because by accident I have got this Indian body, I may think, "I am Indian." You may have American body; *you may think, "I am..." But we are neither American nor Indian. We are pure spirit soul. This is only an outward dress. Suppose you have got green dress. You don't say that "I am green dress." You say, "I am Mr. John." Similarly, if we say that "I am American," "I am Indian," that is not my real identification. Exactly like that, if somebody says that "I am Mr. green dress," "I am Mr. white dress," as that is not identification, similarly, if I say "I am American" or "I am Indian" or "Englishman," or so many, "Hindus" or "Muslims," that is not my pure identification. My pure identification is that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, or God." That's all. That is pure identification. When comes to this understanding, that "I am eternal servant of God," that is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage, ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

*And what is the characteristic of that brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage? The characteristic of brahma-bhūtaḥ stage is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā by Kṛṣṇa Himself:

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



bhaktyā mām abhijānāti

yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ

tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā

*viśate tad*-anantaram

[Bg. 18.55]



*So the brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage is described that when one realizes his own self, that is called mukti, liberation. As soon as one understands that "I am not this body. I am something different from this body..." That anyone can understand very easily. That's not a very big job. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that,



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



Just like in your childhood you were in a body which was called baby or child. Now I am old man. I can remember in my childhood I was so small, but that body is gone. Now I have got a different body. But I am there. This is the understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. By changing body, the eternal soul does not, I mean to say, annihilate. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. This understanding is called Brahman understanding, that "I am eternal. I have no birth; *I have no death. The birth and death is pertaining to this body. I am changing body from one body to another." This is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ understanding. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is.



*So when one comes to this understanding, his characteristics will be that he is jolly. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. He becomes jolly. In the material state everyone is morose, full of anxiety, but in the spiritual life he is jolly. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. What is the characteristic of jolliness? That he does not lament, he does not hanker. In the material stage we hanker for things which we do not possess, and we lament for things we have lost. But in the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, as soon as we understand that we are spirit soul, there is no more hankering or lamenting. That is the characteristic of Brahman realization. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Then you can think of universal brotherhood. So long you are under the category of hankering and lamenting, you cannot think of universal brotherhood. That is impossible. Therefore in spite of so much of conferences in the United Nations, the fighting is going on. The Pakistan is separated on the ground of religion: Hindu, Muslim. Now they are fighting between Muslim and Muslim. Why? Because that disease, hankering and lamenting, is there. It is not brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. And they cannot be on the platform of seeing everyone on equal terms. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. That is not possible. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu means when one is actually on the spiritual platform, he can see everyone on the same category because everyone is spirit soul. Then not only in human society*-in other animal society also... Just like there are 8,400,000 species of life. That means the living entity is passing through different types of bodies. This is called learning. This is called understanding. Unfortunately, this learning and understanding, there is none throughout the whole world in any university. Therefore whatever education we are getting, that is not real learning. That is not real learning. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. If one gets actual learning, then he sees equally everyone. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini.

*So this is a longer subject matter. It is not possible to explain everything what is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But the actual fact is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring one to his original consciousness. That is the sum and substance, to original consciousness. That original consciousness can be achieved by simple method. What is that? Chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. It is a fact. Just like we have got so many European and American boys and girls. How they have come to this platform? How they have given up their old habits? Naturally these boys and girls were taught from the beginning of their life so many things which is not accepted in Vedic civilization, but they have now given up. There is no illicit sex life amongst our students. There is no meat*-eating, there is no intoxication, including coffee and tea and cigarette, and there is no gambling. And they are practiced to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting not only as you have seen some of the samples. We have got fifty-two branches. In every branch we have got not less than twenty-five up to hundred. So this is the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. It is not story, but it is fact. How it is obtained? It is obtained by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

māṁ ca ya avyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*"Anyone who is engaged in devotional service unflinchingly, without any adulteration, he immediately becomes elevated to the brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage, immediately." That is stated.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is neither a new movement, nor it is a concocted philosophy. It is based on authorities like Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literatures. And practically you see how it is effective. Simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, these boys and girls, they are elevated. And they have taken the matter very seriously. They are preaching this cult all over the world. So our request to everyone, that whatever you are doing, it doesn't matter. Please take to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. That is our only request. You are not losing anything, but you are gaining very much, simply by chanting. It will cleanse your heart. All our misunderstanding is in the heart*-all rubbish things we have accumulated after many, many births. So we have to cleanse this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends by simply chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, your heart will be cleansed. The mirror of your heart will be cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And immediately you will be able to extinguish the blazing fire of this material existence. These are the different items of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And He therefore says, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam: "All victory to śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam." So I do not wish to take much of your time. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is very nice, authorized, spiritual, simple and sublime, all at a time. If you kindly take this, you will be benefited, and your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. [break]



Acyutānanda: We have made the statement that we attain a certain amount of bliss by engaging in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process. Do we deny the fact that other people have attained similar bliss from doing other things, such as...?



Indian man: Such as religion and other.



Acyutānanda: Religion?



Indian man: Yeah, religion.



*Prabhupāda: The thing is, there are three qualities of men, and each one's feeling of pleasure is different. Just like there are crows, and there are swans. The crows take pleasure in a different way, and the swans take pleasure in a different way. That is natural. The crows are different from the swans, although they are birds, but because they are being conducted under different qualities of nature, their propensities are also different. So one may take pleasure by howling and drinking, and one man takes pleasure by chanting and dancing in Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is a different quality only. So in the Bhagavad*-gītā everything is divided into three divisions. There are religions of different qualities, and there are actions of different qualities. Exactly the same example: as there are differences between the crows and the swans, similarly there are different persons in the human society. One class of person, they take pleasure in one class of thing, and another person, they take in a different type. So that divisions will continue so long we are in this material world. But we are talking of original consciousness. These are contaminated consciousness. When we come to the original consciousness, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are trying to bring everyone to that platform. That is our program. [break] ...we explain... Just like when the water from the sky drops on the ground, immediately it becomes muddy. Now, if the water drops in too much muddy place, it becomes too much muddy. And if it drops in a clear place, then it remains clarity. Similarly, our coming in contact of this material world means we come in contact of the three qualities of matter: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if you come in contact with sattva-guṇa, then your position ms very clear, just like sunshine, prakāśa. And if you are in rajo-guṇa, then you are very passionate. And if you are in tamo-guṇa, then you are in darkness. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that in whatever quality or modes of nature you are in, if you simply chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, all of you come to this transcendental position of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It doesn't matter in what modes of nature and quality you are now existing. If you simply take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you, if not immediately, but gradually you'll be assured to come to the Kṛṣṇa conscious platform. That is our program. (end)





710512LE.SYD

Lecture at Boys' School

-

Sydney, May 12, 1971



(kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: ...very beautiful boys. Why did you not join us, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? Is it very difficult? Will you try to chant? Hare. Say Hare.



Audience: Hare.



Prabhupāda: All of you chant, Hare.



Audience: Hare.



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.



Audience: Hare.



(Prabhupāda leads them through whole mantra)

Prabhupāda: There are three words only: Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma. Is it very difficult? Chant again. Hare.



Audience: Hare.



Prabhupāda: Oh, you cannot chant? You are all dumb? (laughter) How is that? Chant, Hare!



Audience: Hare!



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa!



Audience: Kṛṣṇa.



(Prabhupāda leads them through whole mantra again)

Prabhupāda: Three words you cannot chant? Oh, that is very astonishing. Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma. Do you know what is God? Can any one of you stand up and tell me what is God? Thank you. Come here. (applause and laughter) Yes. Do you know what is God?



*Boy: Yes. God is self*-realization, and God is found in the unconscious mind.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. (applause) No, no. Don't go away. Don't go away. God is... What is that? What did you say, God, God is...?



*Boy: Self*-realization.



*Prabhupāda: Self*-realization. Explain it. What is self-realization?



Boy: Tapping the powers of the unconscious mind and seeing yourself...



Prabhupāda: Do you think mind is unconscious?



Boy: The mind is unconscious.



Prabhupāda: You say "unconscious mind." You just now told me "unconscious mind." Is mind unconscious?



Boy: Most of it is.



Prabhupāda: What did he say?



*Bali*-mardana: "Most of it."



Prabhupāda: No. Mind is never unconscious. Mind is not for a single moment unconscious. When you sleep, when your bodily limbs are silent, mind works. Therefore we sleep and we dream. Mind always acts. Mind is never unconscious, even not for a second. Now you have to find out what is consciousness.



Boy: I'm not talking about consciousness. The unconsciousness.



Prabhupāda: Unless you know consciousness, how do you describe unconsciousness?



Boy: The unconscious is the id.



Prabhupāda: Unconsciousness is the negative side of consciousness. So you should explain what is consciousness. Then we can understand unconsciousness.



Boy: I didn't say "unconsciousness." I said "unconscious."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Unconscious means the negative of consciousness. So you have to explain what is consciousness. Then we can understand what is unconscious.



Boy: Consciousness...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Boy: ...is when you can think. Unconsciousness is when you cannot think.



Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no such position when you cannot think.



Boy: When you are in coma.



Prabhupāda: When you... There is no such position as when you cannot think. You have to think something always. That is our position.



Boy: You can't think when you're in a coma or when you're dead.



Prabhupāda: Then you remember when you were dead. Try to understand what is consciousness, then you will understand what is unconsciousness. Consciousness is spread all over the body. Suppose I pinch in any part of your body: you feel some pain, and that is consciousness, any part of your body. But that consciousness is individual. You can feel the pains and pleasure of your body, and your friend also can feel the pains and pleasure of his body. I can feel pains and pleasure of my body. So this feeling of pains and pleasure is consciousness. But one thing, that I cannot feel pains and pleasure of your body, neither you can feel the pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore your consciousness is individual; *my consciousness is individual. But there is another consciousness who can feel the pains and pleasure of your body and who can feel the pains and pleasure of my body. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. You have heard the name of Bhagavad-gītā? Have you, any of you?



Boy (2): Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Who says yes? Please come here. Thank you. It is very good. At least one of you know what is Bhagavad*-gītā. Don't go away. Please come here. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that kṣetra-kṣetra-jñaḥ. Two things are described there. Kṣetra means this body, and kṣetra-jña means the knower of the body. Just like "I am." I know this is my finger, this is my leg, this is my head. So I am the knower., And this leg is my body. Is that not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?



*Boy (2): Well, I don't know the Bhagavad*-gītā very well.



*Prabhupāda: All right. Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Thirteenth Chapter, you will find, it is described: the body and the knower of the body. Just like you think over your body, you think over your finger. You will understand that it is your finger. When I think of this finger, I know this is my finger. When I think of this leg, I think that "This is my leg." But I don't think your finger as my finger. This knower is individual, and he knows not everything but something of his body. I do not know everything of my body. Suppose I am eating, I am eating something. How this eatable substance transforms into vitamin secretion and how it is being distributed all over the body and is supplying the energy? Or take, for example, I have got my hairs, but I do not know how many hairs I have got. Is not that a fact? Can you count your hairs, how many hairs you have got? So, so many things we do not know even of our body, although I am claiming that "This is my body."



*But there is another living being. He is supreme living being, Kṛṣṇa. He says that "I know everything of everyone's body." Ksetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]. This is the verse. Ksetra-jña means the knower of the body. You are individual knower of your body; *I am knower individually of my body. So everyone is knower of his own body. But there is another person, who says that "I know everything of everyone's body." Kṣetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He is known as Paramātmā. The individual knower is known as ātmā, or soul, spirit soul. (aside:) Yes. You can sit down on the bench. Yes. The individual soul is called ātmā. But there is another soul, Supersoul. He is called Paramātmā. Paramātmā is God. Paramātmā is God, but ātmā and Paramātmā, both of them are cognizant. Both of them know things. Just like I know something about my body or I know something about this world. Similarly, there is another ātmā, supreme ātmā, who knows everything of this universe. He is sometimes called God or the Paramātmā or Kṛṣṇa, whatever He..., according to different language. So that God is also knower; *you are also knower. So far knowing capacity is concerned, you are one with God. Because Kṛṣṇa or God is cognizant, you are also cognizant. But you are cognizant with very limited sphere, and He is cognizant unlimitedly everywhere. That is the difference. So try to understand Paramātmā and jīvātmā. Jivātmā is a small, and Paramātmā, or God, is great. That you know, every one of you. You say, "God is great," but how He is great, that we do not know. That we have to know. That is called God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone says, "God is great. God is omnipotent. God is all*-powerful," but we do not know how God is great, how God is all-powerful, how God is omnipotent. That we should know. And that is the prerogative, a special power for the human being. The animals, they cannot know what is God, how God is great, how God is all-powerful. But a human being, if he tries, if he consults books of knowledge just like Bible or Bhagavad-gītā or similar other scriptures, he can know what is God, how great He is, how omnipotent He is, and what is our relationship with God.

*We should know also our relationship with God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Our relationship with God is that we are all part and parcel of God. Just like your father has got many children*-you are part of the father's body-similarly, God, the supreme father, He has also many children, and you are one of them; *therefore you are part and parcel of God. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ

*jīva*-loke sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

*prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati

[Bg. 15.7]



*Kṛṣṇa says that "All these living entities, they are all My parts and parcels, but being influenced by mental concoction, he is very much struggling hard within this material world." Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati. This struggle for existence of the human being is due to his lack of knowledge of God. He does not know how God is great. There is no educational institution all over the world to discuss this subject matter, how God is great, how He is omnipotent, how I am servant of God. These things are not discussed. But when we forget our relationship with God we become subjected to the threefold miseries of material existence. Take for example... Just like an Australian citizen. He is under the laws of the state of Australia. But if he says, "I don't care for the government," he becomes lawless, and sometimes he becomes criminal, and he is put into the prison life. In the prison also, he has to abide by the laws of the government, and outside the prison also, one has to abide by the laws of the government. But outside the prison the citizens abide by the laws of the government voluntarily, and inside the prison house, the criminals, they defy the laws of government, and therefore they are put into the prisonhouse. So when we defy the laws of God, we are put into threefold miseries of life. That is called material existence. And when we abide by the laws of God, then we are happy. We should know this fact. And religion means to abide by the laws of God. In the Sanskrit language it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, or religion, means the codes of God. Code. Just like laws cannot be manufactured by some individual man, laws are enacted by the government, similarly, religious principles, they are made by God. Godless man does not care for religion, but those who are sober, devotee, godly, they abide by the laws of God, and they are happy. Just like in your Bible there are commandments. So one has to abide by the commandment; then he will be happy. And if one disobeys the commandments of God, he will be unhappy.



*So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a sectarian movement. We are trying to bring back people to God consciousness. Because unless one comes to God consciousness, he cannot be happy. That's a fact. He becomes careless, and without abiding by the laws of God, he becomes criminal, subjected to so many troubles inflicted by the laws of nature. So these things should be taught from the beginning. It is said in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, kaumāram ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. In every schools and colleges these codes of God should be taught to the children. Then in future they will be godly or God conscious and their life will be peaceful. And because this is not taught in the schools and colleges... I have got experience by traveling in the Western countries. Especially in America, they have got so many nice arrangements of big, big universities. Unfortunately, nowadays they are producing hippies. So this is not very encouraging. In every schools and colleges the God consciousness should be taught. Never mind whether through Bible or Koran or through Bhagavad-gītā. Everywhere there is knowledge of God consciousness. That teaching should be introduced in every schools and colleges so that children, from the very beginning, may understand what is God, how great he is, how we are related with God, and how we have to live. So our, this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is teaching that thing. Don't think that it is a sectarian religion. We are making people God conscious. It doesn't matter whichever religion you may belong. We want to see whether you are actually God conscious. Our Bhāgavata says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6], that "That religious system is first class wherein God consciousness or love of God is taught." That is first-class religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muhammadan religion. If by following the principles of religion one becomes advanced in God consciousness, that is first-class religion. That is our motto, and we are preaching all over the world.

So I do not see some of your teachers here. I request them to make the students from the very beginning God consciousness. Then their future life is very peaceful, prosperous and hopeful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause) (kīrtana) (end)



710513LE.SYD

Lecture at Wayside Chapel

-

Sydney, May 13, 1971



(kīrtana)

*Bali*-mardana: He wants to make an announcement.



Australian man: Just at this point we'd like to welcome tonight Swami Bhaktivedanta here, as well as all of you who are participating in this Family of Man meeting. The Wayside Chapel, of course, is the home of world religion. As a matter of fact, in three weeks time the Sikh community will conduct their major festival here in this very theater, and everybody is invited to share with the Sikh community on that particular Sunday. So that's part of our program. And therefore it's perfectly natural that this evening we should have in our presence such a renowned world leader of a religious movement, which we have watched with great interest from the Wayside Chapel, and we are very honored that the Swami should be in our presence this evening. And in a few moments time we're going to invite him to speak just as long as he wishes to speak to the whole community which is present. And after that, as usual, in connection with our Family of Man meetings here on Wednesday night, there will be ample opportunity for questions and discussion. I think nothing more needs to be said except to say that we want you to feel very much at home. Everybody here is most anxious to hear what you have to say. The Wayside Chapel originally began... [break]



Prabhupāda: So ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to place before you our views on saṅkīrtana movement all over the world. This saṅkīrtana movement, don't take it as a religious movement. As you generally understand in the Western countries, the word religion is used as "a kind of faith." Faith you can change. Today you are Christian; *tomorrow you can become Hindu. But religion cannot be changed. What we mean by the exact word, Sanskrit word, corresponding to religion is dharma, d*-h-a-r-m-a. That dharma is different thing from the word religion. Religion is generally understood as a kind of faith, but dharma is not like that. Dharma you cannot change. Just like water. Water is liquid. You cannot make it solid. If water becomes solid, then it is not in the natural state. If you can... You can say the water becomes sometimes solid by less temperature under certain condition. But the tendency of water is to become liquid again. Water cannot stand solid for good. This is called dharma, religion. Or, say, take it for example, a stone. Stone is solid. Stone cannot be liquid. If by chemical process you make stone liquid sometimes, as you transform stone to glass, that liquidness of stone is temporary. Similarly, the solidity of water is also temporary. So similarly, our religion, the dharma... Try to understand the word dharma. Dharma is a permanent occupation of a certain thing. Just like sugar. Sugar is sweet. You cannot make sugar as salty. Or pepper is pungent, hot. You cannot make it sweet. So try to understand the word dharma, that it cannot be changed. Similarly, we living entities, we have got a dharma, or religion. That we cannot change. What is that? A living entity is servant. We are all living entities, but we are all servants at the same time. Is anyone here who can say that "I am not servant of anyone"? No. That is not possible. Everyone is servant. Everyone is servant. That is the definition given by Lord Caitanya. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa: [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109] "A living entity is eternally servant of God." That cannot be changed. Just like you are citizens of this Australian state, so you must have to abide by the laws of the state. You cannot change it. If you say that "I don't want these laws," you will be forced to abide by the laws. You cannot change it, or you cannot make law at your home. Law is enacted by the government. Similarly, we should understand religion means you cannot change, and it is enacted by God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. That is the definition given in the Vedic literature.



*So this saṅkīrtana movement is meant for purifying our heart. By long association with this material nature, we are thinking that "There is no God," "I have nothing to do with God. I am independent of God." We are thinking like that. But actually this is not a fact. The gross material nature is very strong. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā-those who have read Bhagavad-gītā-daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. God has got multi-energies, and they are divided grossly into three: the external energy, the internal energy and the marginal energy. The external energy is this material nature, and the internal energy, there is another, spiritual nature. As you see this universe, as far as you can see or imagine, it is covered. This is material energy. Beyond this covering there is another nature. That is spiritual nature. We get this information from the Vedic literatures. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. And we living entities, we are the marginal energies. That means if we like, we can live in this material nature; if we like, we can transfer ourselves to the spiritual nature. The spiritual nature is... It is not in..., what is called, incompatible. Compatible. You can adjust yourself in the spiritual nature, but you cannot adjust yourself in the material nature. Therefore material nature, however you can make your plans for becoming happy, it will be frustrated. Because you do not, you cannot adjust yourself with this material nature. Just like this body. This body is a product of this material nature. Now, however you can take care of this body, however you may go on making this body very strong and stout, still, you cannot maintain it. It will be finished today or tomorrow, or a hundred years after. You cannot protect it. This is material nature. But I have got the tendency to keep my body fit, strong, and eternal. That is my tendency. People are taking so much exercise just to become very strong and stout. But nature will not allow you. However stout and strong you may be, you have to die. You have to give up this body. This body is temporary, but our tendency is to live forever. The scientists are trying how to keep this body fit. One Russian scientist said that "By material science we shall be able to keep this body forever." They may say like that, but in the history we do not find any evidence that anyone has ever been able to keep this body forever, immortal. That is not possible.

*But this tendency can be satisfied if you transfer yourself to the spiritual world, because you are marginal. I have already said that we are in a marginal position. If we like, we can keep on this material side of the nature, and if we like, we can transfer ourself to the spiritual side of nature. And what we are? We are also spiritual sparks. Therefore we cannot adjust with this material nature. Our real hankering is how to go to the spiritual nature. But due to our long association with this material nature, we are thinking wrongly that "I am a product of this material nature. I will have to adjust with the elements here, and... But because there is no other way, so as long is possible, let me live comfortably and satisfactorily." This is our nature. But we get information from Bhagavad*-gītā, by simply doing one thing you can make your life permanent, eternal, and never to die again, or never to take birth again. What is that? That Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



Kṛṣṇa says, "Simply by understanding about My appearance and My activities, janma karma..." Janma means appearance, and karma means activities. Janma karma me divyam: "They are transcendental." Yo jānāti tattvataḥ: "If anyone understands in truth," tyaktvā deham, "then such person, after giving up this body," punar janma naiti, "do not come to take birth again in this material world, but he comes to Me." Mām eti. And if you come back to Kṛṣṇa, wherefrom you generated, then you become eternally living, not to come back again in this material world full of miseries and frustration.



*So these informations are there, and our propaganda is to train people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, how to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth so that next life, after giving up this body, you get your original, spiritual body, and you live forever with complete knowledge and blissful life. And to understand Kṛṣṇa, in this age it is very simple: this chanting process. This chanting process-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare*-it is simple. Even a child can chant. We have got experience. When we hold meetings, unless one is very obstinate, he joins and chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and dances also with ecstasy. He doesn't require to understand what is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, but because it is spiritual vibration, it appeals to the spirit soul, and immediately he become ecstatic. That is the process. So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, your heart, the mirror of your heart, becomes cleansed so that you can see. Just like mirror, when it is dusty, you cannot see your face nicely, similarly, when our heart is contaminated with the material infection, we cannot understand our real position. But if we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then it will be possible to understand, to see our constitutional position. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, there is no expenditure and there is no less. Just like we requested you while our students were chanting to join with. What was the loss? But if you do not do, then how we can help you? We are not asking you to pay something for chant this mantra. It is free. It is open. You have to simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result. Why don't you do that? We are not asking any payment. You are not losing anything. Why don't you make this experiment? But it is our obstinacy. Then what can be done? But if you chant, you will see the result very quickly. Within a week you will see. That is our request. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. If you chant, then the dirty things which have accumulated in your heart since a long association with this material world, that will be gradually cleansed, and you will be able to see what you are.

*So without any expenditure, without any loss, if you can see yourself, what you are, why don't you take it? What is the objection? Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And as soon as you can see, you can have a look upon yourself, immediately the blazing fire of material existence will be extinguished. This material world is supposed to be blazing fire. Blazing fire. It is called blazing fire in the forest. Just like in the forest nobody goes to set fire, but it takes automatically, similarly, in this material world, however you may try to live very peacefully, it will not allow you. There will be some fire. Just like in Pakistan. All of a sudden they separated from India as Muhammadan on the basis of religion. Now they are Muhammadans, of the same religion, but they are fighting. First of all they wanted to save themselves from fighting from the Hindus. Now they are Muhammadan. They are of the same cult, same religion. Still, they are fighting. So you cannot stop this fighting. It will automatically come out. Just like the forest blazing fire. Nobody goes to set fire there, but it takes place. So this world, nature of this world, is like that. However you may be careful, however you may be peaceful, some element there will be who will put you into trouble, into frustration. That is the nature of this material world. Try to understand. But if you understand your constitutional position, what you are, then immediately this blazing fire will be extinguished and real knowledge come out. If you understand your position, then what is your real occupation, real activities, you will understand. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Just like the moon rises from a line. On the pratipara (?) day, on the first moon side, you will see just like a line, but gradually it develops, develops, develops, and it becomes a full moon, very beautiful. Similarly, if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then your first vision of your self, your constitutional position, will be visible just like a line of the moon. But if you go on continuing, you will find one day it is full moon and brilliant, very soothing, and nectarine. You'll taste your life as very sublime, blissful, and hopeful.

*So our method is very simple, and it is very sublime. And it is not that we are dreaming. Practically it is happening in every part of the world. We have got so many branches all over the world, and each and every branch you will find devotees like this. At least twenty*-four devotees up to one hundred devotees we have got. In America, my students, these boys and girls, they have been known as "Hare Kṛṣṇa People," "bright-faced people." You can compare their face with others, how they are feeling happy and blissful. That's a fact. It is not a story. So method is simple: simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So why don't you accept this formula? You have nothing to lose, and there is no loss, but the gain is very great. So our request is that here is a nice place. You assemble here. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and see the result. That is our request. And if you want to know more, if you don't believe that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is powerful, if you want to know about this movement through science, philosophy, logic, we have got ample books. We have got already published at least twelve books, four hundred pages. You try to understand. If you want to understand this movement through science and philosophy, we are ready. But if you take it as a simple method, without any expenditure, without any loss, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Two sides. Any side you can accept. You will be benefited. That is our request. I don't wish to take much of your time, but our method is very simple, and your life will be sublime. There is no loss. The gain is very great. So if you like, you can take it.

Thank you very much. (end)



710626LE.PAR

Lecture

-

Paris, June 26, 1971



Prabhupāda:



*...sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your (indistinct) in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement is especially meant for human society who are serious about fulfillment of the mission of this life. There is a distinction between human life and animal life. Animal life means one who does not know who is the proprietor of the body. Those who are under the concept of this material body as self, they are as good as animal. But the..., in the human form of life one can distinguish that one is not this material body but he is a separate identity, spiritual in value. We can understand this fact if we give little attention to it, that we are changing our different body since the beginning of our life. We learn from Vedic literature that after sexual intercourse of the male and female, if it is fruitful, then the living entity is injected in the emulsion of the two secretion and in the first night it takes the shapes of a pea. And because the living entity is there, it grows gradually, and then nine holes evolve, which are later on developed into two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, and one rectum, one genital, like that.



So when the body is complete, then the consciousness coming. So long the body is not complete, the consciousness is almost dead. It is called suṣupti, or sound sleeping. Then gradually, when the consciousness comes, the child within the womb feels uncomfortable and wants to come out. Therefore at the stage of seventh month of pregnancy sometimes the child moves. That is the process of growing. And after coming out of the womb the body grows. But if the child comes out dead, the body does not grow. Therefore it is to be understood that due to the presence of the spirit soul the body grows, means changes from one form to another. It is concluded by learned scholars that this change of body is taking place every moment, but the soul is there from the beginning of the life. And when this body is no longer persistable, the soul changes to another body. That is called transmigration of the soul. That is a fact. But the modern civilization does not deal with this subject matter. They are under wrong impression that the body is self. I have talked with many scholars, and they are also under the same impression that with the end of the body, everything is finished. But actual fact is different. We can remember our childhood body. We can remember our boyhood body. Although those bodies are not present, I, the spirit soul, the occupier of the body or the proprietor of the body, I am present.

*So this transmigration of soul is the most important factor to be understood by the human society. Unfortunately there is no university, there is no department of knowledge, to understand this important factor. That is very risky. So this soul is transmigrating from one body to another, and there are 8,400,000 species of life, and our, after leaving this body we may accept any one of them. We do not know. That will depend on our action at the present moment. Practically we are preparing our future body, and according to our work and mentality, we get a different body. Therefore we shall be very much cautious. Any intelligent man can understand that the future life is prepared at present. Just like the boy goes to the school, goes to the college, he prepares his future life, similarly, this human form of life is a preparation ground for our future life. So according to Bhagavad*-gītā, we can transfer to other planets also. This is explained in our book Easy Journey to Other Planets. The present endeavor is to transfer one to the moon planet. But as we get information from the Vedic literature, we cannot transfer ourself by mechanical arrangement to the moon planet. That is not possible. This is futile attempt. Every planet has got different atmosphere. So in order to enter into a particular planet we have to prepare ourself. This is also understandable very easily. Just like if we go to a foreign country we have to prepare for visa and passport. If in this planet also we are so much restricted, how foolishly we are attempting to go to other planet without being prepared for entering that planet.

*Anyway, a sane man, an intelligent man, does not like to enter in any one of the material planets, because wherever we go in the material planet the four condition, or miserable condition of miserable existence, are there. The four miserable conditions of materialistic way of life is birth, death, old age, and disease. So from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that even if we enter into the Brahmaloka, the highest planetary system of this universe, the four principles of miserable condition-birth, death, old age and disease*-are there. We learn from Bhagavad-gītā that one daytime duration is millions of years of our calculation. That's a fact. So, but even though the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, which the scientists say it will take forty thousands of years to go there with the sputnik speed, but who is going there, traveling in the space forty thousands of years? But from the Vedic literature we can understand that any one of the planets we can enter, provided we prepare for that purpose. The exact words in the Bhagavad-gītā is that,

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



If anyone prepares himself to enter into the higher planetary system, which is said to be inhabited by demigods, we can go there. Similarly, in the Pitṛloka, Pitṛ planet, we can go, or if we like, we can remain on this planet. And at last, if we desire, we can enter into the planet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So it is all preparation only. But considering the point that any planetary system within this material universe, they are temporary... Maybe the duration is very, very long time, but they are to be annihilated. As our body... There are different types of body. A human body exists for hundred years, but an insect's body exists for twelve hours. So these different body exist relatively a long duration or short duration, but they are to be annihilated. But if anyone enters into the planet which is called Vaikuṇṭhaloka, the spiritual planet, then there is eternal life, blissful life and full of knowledge.



*So a human being, if he tries, he can attain that perfection. That is stated. It is very simple. In the Bhagavad*-gītā the Lord says that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Anyone who knows in truth about the Supreme Personality of Godhead... People say, "God is great." That is a hackneyed word. But if we want to know how God is great, that can be also known from authorized scriptures. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God Himself describes about Himself. So we can know. So He says that "Simply by understanding what I am..." Kṛṣṇa says or God says, janma karma me divyam: "My appearance, or taking birth just like a human being, is transcendental." It is not exactly like the human body, but God is so kind that He comes before us as an ordinary human being. Unfortunately one who does not know about Him, he thinks that Kṛṣṇa, or God, is like one of us. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. "Those who are mūḍhas, rascals, they think Me as if one of the human being." Actually He is not. So we have got the chance to know about Him. Provided we read the right literatures under right direction, we can know. That possibility is there. And if we simply can know what is the nature of God, or Kṛṣṇa, simply by understanding this fact one becomes liberated. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. A person who has understood the Absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead... It cannot be understood completely. That is not possible with our human intelligence, but with the help of Bhagavad-gītā, the statement given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the spiritual master, we can know Him to the best of our capacity. And if we can know Him, then the result is that immediately after leaving this body we enter into the kingdom of God. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: [Bg. 4.9] "After giving up this body he does not come again to this material world, but he enters into the spiritual world and comes to Me." That is the statement.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to propagate this higher scientific idea to the people in general, and the process is very simple. Simply by chanting the holy name of God-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare*-one cleanses his dirty things in the heart and he can understand that he is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and it is his duty to serve Him. And it is also very pleasant. The process is so nice that we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, dance rhythmically and eat nice prasādam, and we enjoy this life and prepare for the next life to enter into the kingdom of God. So these are not stories. These are all facts, although to the layman it appears like stories. But if one is serious, then Kṛṣṇa, or God, from within, He also helps, and the spiritual master also helps. The spiritual master is said "the external manifestation of God." God is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, as Supersoul. But those who are very serious about understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, immediately He helps him by, I mean to say, showing a bona fide spiritual master so that a candidate will be helped from inside and outside how to approach God. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for that purpose. The spiritual master, or the representative, living representative of Kṛṣṇa, he helps from outside, and Kṛṣṇa as Paramātmā helps from inside. In both ways the living entity can take advantage and make his life successful. We have got many books in this connection, about twelve books of four hundred pages. So this is based on the authority of Vedas, and that is summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā and many other books. So we have published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Kṛṣṇa, Easy Journey to Other Planets, Nectar of Devotion. So we request everyone to understand this movement by reading authoritative literatures in this connection. We are publishing our magazine, Back to Godhead, every month in so many languages. So our program is to serve the human society, to save them from the pitfall of entering again into the cycle of birth and death. That is our great mission.

*So I was very much engladdened to learn that I had to speak this night, but because I was pre*-engaged for going to San Francisco, because tomorrow there will be a great Ratha-yātrā festival... About fifty thousand people will participate in the festival, and they have advertised my presence, so I am going this afternoon to San Francisco. So you will excuse me because I am not personally present. But I hope to come back again by the second week of July. If sufficient arrangement is made I shall be very glad to meet the enlightened people of this city and try to make them convinced about the importance of this great movement. And that will be beneficial for our mission as well as your welfare.

Thank you. (end)



710626SP.PAR

Speech at Olympia Theater

-

Paris, June 26, 1971,

(with translator)



*Prabhupāda: I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement is very important. It is a movement to save the human society from a suicidal policy. The suicidal policy is... Just this evening I expressed my desires to the press conference that the human society is being misled by leaders who are blind themselves. Take for example just like there a few blind men, and one, another blind man, is proposing to help them, crossing over the street. So this blind following is there in this sense, that we do not know what is the aim and objective of human society. The aim and objective of human life is self*-realization and reestablishing our lost relation with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the missing point. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to enlighten the human society on this important point.



*According to Vedic civilization, the progressive march towards perfection of life is to realize one's relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God. There is a book, perhaps you read or you know, Bhagavad*-gītā. That Bhagavad-gītā is accepted by all ācāryas, or authorities in transcendental science, as the essence of all Vedic knowledge. In this Bhagavad-gītā we understand that the living entities, not only human beings, but other than human beings... There are many types of living entities. All of them are parts and parcels of God. The part and parcel of God means... You can understand from your own personal experience. Just like your body but there are many parts and parcels of the body, just like the legs, the hands, the fingers, the hair, so many things. The idea is that the parts and parcels are meant for serving the whole body. Similarly, we living entities, being part and parcel of God, it is our duty to serve Him. Actually our position is that we are rendering service to somebody else. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting must admit that he is giving service to somebody else. Somebody is rendering service to his family, somebody is rendering service to his country or to his society, or if one has nobody to serve, sometimes he keeps a pet like cats and dog and renders service unto it. All these factors prove that we want and we are constitutionally so made that we have to render service to somebody else. But in spite of our rendering service to the best capacity, we are not satisfied nor the persons to whom we are rendering service, they are satisfied. Therefore in spite of our rendering service to one another, every one of us are frustrated. The reason is that the service which we are rendering, that is not properly placed. The method is... Just like a tree. If you want to render service to a tree, you must water to the root. If you pour water on the leaves, branches and twigs, that is not properly served. If you pour water on the root, that is the way of serving the tree. Similarly, in your body, if you supply food to the stomach, the energy will be distributed. You need not give food separately to the different parts of your body. From this example we can understand that the supreme whole, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if He is served, then all other parts and parcels and... Just like the limbs of the body are served automatically by supplying food to the stomach, similarly, by serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead everyone is served. Therefore all welfare activities, all service to the society, family, nature... [break]

*So it is the duty of every human being to understand his constitutional position, his relation with God, and understanding the relation, to act accordingly, and then our life becomes successful. This human form of life is meant for that purpose. We are missing the point. So long we are living, sometimes we challenge that "There is no God," "I am God," or somebody says, "I don't care for God." But actually this challenge will not save us. God is there. We can see God in every moment. But if we deny to see God, then God will be present before us as the cruel death. There are different features of the Supreme Personality of Godhead because He is the original root cause of all cosmic manifestation. In the Bhagavad*-gītā there is nice description how you can gradually understand and see God personally, face to face. Just like the Personality of Godhead says therein that "I am the taste in water. I am the sunlight. I am the moonlight. I am the sound vibration in the sky and I am the supreme character of a great personality." So if we (are) actually serious to understand the science of God, if we try to follow the injunction given in the Bhagavad-gītā... Just like God is the taste of the water. Everyone is tasting water daily, not only once but several times. So if we remember this instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that the taste of the water is God, then the God realization begins, becomes, begins. Similarly, it is said there that God is the light of the moon, God is the light of the sun. Every one of us has seen the sunlight and the moonshine, so how we can say that we have not seen God? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the sound vibration in the sky." So who has not heard the sound vibration of the cloud in the sky? So as soon as we hear the sound vibration in the sky, we can see God or we can hear God. At last, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. If one does not see God, then, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the death, cruel death, who takes away everything from everyone." The conclusion is that everyone sees God at every moment, but the atheist class, they do not accept that he is seeing God. He denies or telling lies that he is not seeing God. But a devotee of God, he sees God at every moment within his heart. So the difference of seeing God by a devotee and difference of, and denying, denial by the nondevotee, is this, that the atheist class or the atheist can see God at his last stage as death, whereas the devotee sees God by his devotional service every moment and every step of his life.

So this human form of life is especially... It is given by nature to realize God. If we don't utilize this human form of life to understand ourselves and God and our relationship, then we are committing a suicidal policy. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just an attempt to educate the foolish human civilization without any sense of God. Our life... As we are spirit soul, we are evolving through many species of life, and if we don't take advantage of this human form of life, then we are missing the chance. Without God consciousness or without Kṛṣṇa consciousness there cannot be any peace. Everyone is hankering after peace, but he does not know how to achieve peace. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the greatest welfare activities in the world, and we request everyone to take advantage of this great scientific movement. Our presentation is authoritative because we are guided by the principles of the old knowledge, the ancient knowledge of India, the *Vedas*. And the process of understanding this science of Kṛṣṇa is also made very easy in this age. The process, as you have already known, the process is chanting the holy name of God: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now this is recommended in the *Vedas*, that "In this age people are so much fallen that they cannot realize God by the prescribed method; therefore the best chance for them is to chant this holy name of God." That is recommended in the *Vedas*. You can chant... "If you know any other name of God, you can chant also, because there is no difference between the different names of God. And each name, holy name, is invested with all powers of God." Lord Caitanya says that each and every name, holy name of God, is nondifferent from the Supreme Lord. Therefore all the powers, all the energies that God has, it is also there in His holy name. In the absolute platform there is no such difference, as in this relative world there is difference between the name and the person whose name we are chanting. As such, there is no difference between the holy name of God and God. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says there is no hard and fast rules and regulations for this chanting.

*So you can chant the holy name of God anywhere, everywhere, and wherever it is possible. So suppose you are walking on the street or passing on the buses, but if you chant the holy name of God, especially Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, you will get much benefit without any loss of your money or without any hampering of your business. We therefore request and recommend that so long we live, we may chant the holy name of God: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. We don't charge anything for giving you this name. It is open to everyone. You can take it and make an experiment. By chanting, you will feel how much you are advancing in spiritual knowledge. This is the shortcut way of understanding God realization. But if you don't believe in the simple method, if you want to understand this philosophy through science and philosophy, we have got books, about one dozen books, four hundred pages each, to explain this science of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We have got our magazine, Back to Godhead, and our books, Kṛṣṇa book, Nectar of Devotion, Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So many books we have got. So those who are very much serious... And everyone should be serious because if we miss this opportunity, then after death we do not know what is going to happen. I may have a human form of body or we may have a body of the animals or of a tree. That we do not know. But if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, at least next life again human form of body is guaranteed. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that those who have begun Kṛṣṇa consciousness understanding, if they can fulfill the whole program within this life, they get salvation and goes back to home, back to Godhead. But even if one fails to achieve success in one life, his next life as a human being in rich family or in a pious family is guaranteed. So our humble request to you all is that henceforward you please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra whenever it is possible. You have got enough time and there is no rules and regulation, there is no fee, and see how much you are benefited.

Thank you. Now if there is any question you can ask. (end)



710628LE.SF

Lecture

-

San Francisco, June 28, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So I am very glad that you are following the footprints of the Gosvāmīs, six Gosvāmīs. Vande Rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau, and two Raghunātha Gosvāmī*-one Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī and one Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau, four. Śrī-jīva-gopālakau: and Sri Jīva Gosvāmī and Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. They were direct disciple of Lord Caitanya. There are thousands of disciples of Lord Caitanya, but they are prominent, who gave very prominent service to the Lord by executing the mission of Lord Caitanya. By the order of Lord Caitanya they went to Vṛndāvana, and the present city of Vṛndāvana is the contribution of the Gosvāmīs. First of all Sanātana Gosvāmī went there, then Rūpa Gosvāmī. In this way the city was excavated. It was formerly, five hundred years ago, there was no trace where and how Kṛṣṇa līlā was performed in that tract of land. But when Caitanya Mahāprabhu went there, He first of all discovered Rādhā Kuṇḍa, the lake in which Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī used to take bath and Kṛṣṇa used to come. There is Śyāma Kuṇḍa also. The Śyāma Kuṇḍa, Rādhā Kuṇḍa, two lakes are still existing. Hundreds, thousands of people, devotees, go to see that lake every day.



*So the six Gosvāmīs were, some of them were very prominent government officers. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were two important ministers in the (indistinct) Muhammadan government, Nawab Hussein Shah, his government. They resigned their ministerial post and joined Sri Caitanya Mahāprabhu for propagating His mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So rūpa*-sanātanau, they are very responsible government officers, and raghu-yugau, two Raghunātha: one Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa and one Raghunātha dasa. Raghunātha dasa was the only son of his father and uncle, very big landholder, Bengal. Their father's income was twelve hundred thousands of rupees in those days. Now you can increase at least fifty times and then calculate what was the income of Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. But he left everything to join Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī also came from a very learned brāhmaṇa family. Similarly, Jīva Gosvāmī was the greatest scholar till now. Nobody can compete with Jīva Gosvāmī's scholarship in Sanskrit and philosophy. That is the verdict of all learned scholars. The world's best philosopher and Sanskrit scholar was Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. He happened to be the nephew of Rūpa Gosvāmī. When Jīva Gosvāmī's father and uncles left home, he was only ten years old boy. He thought, "If my father and uncles have left, why shall I not leave home?'' So at the age of ten years he left home and went to Benares, the seat of Sanskrit scholars. He learned there Sanskrit very nicely, became a very great scholar, and then joined their uncles in Vṛndāvana. Of course, at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu had passed. So Jīva Gosvāmī, he is also very learned scholar. His books are still adored by all spiritual sections. Sandarbas, six sandarbas, philosophical theses. And then vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, he was also learned scholar. So all rich men, rich politicians, scholars, great brāhmaṇas, they joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is so nice movement. It attracted thousands of people, just (as) it is attracting you, American boys and girls.

*So in those days, a scholarly section, learned section, rich section were attracted by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. And what was their business? This business, as you are doing: kṛṣṇa kīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau. Their engagement was kṛṣṇa ut kīrtanam. Kṛṣṇa kīrtanam, singing about Kṛṣṇa, just like you are doing-Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇot-kīrtana, very loudly chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna, and sometimes prayers, songs. Nartana. Naratana means dancing. These were their engagement: kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. And as soon as they chanted, immediately they were immersed in the ocean of bliss, prema, ecstasy of love of God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. They were very much affectionate, or dear, to all classes of people. There are two classes of men: dhīra, adhīra. Dhīra means sober, and adhīra means just the opposite, debauchers. So they were dear to both classes of men. This is Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana, is so nice. It is dear to all classes of men. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau. Because they are not envious. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not meant for a particular class of men. It is meant for everyone. So... And what was their other qualification? Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau... Dhīrādhīra-jana-priya-priyakarau nirmatsarau pūjitau, śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau... They're very dear servitors of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu for delivering the fallen souls of this world. And we have to offer our respectful obeisances to the six Gosvāmīs, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau srī-jīva-gopālakau.

*Then their next qualification, next engagement was nana-śāstra*-vicaraṇaika-nipunau. Śāstra, all kinds of Vedic literature. Śāstra means which governs. The Vedic literature governs. There is a verbal root which is called śāst. Śāst means to rule. The ruling, there are three kinds of ruling. One ruling is śāstra, law codes. Just like every civilized country is ruled by the laws of the state, and the statute book which contains all the rules, that is called law books. That is also śāstra. That is śāstra. And then another śāsdhātu is śastra. Śastra means weapons, that like guns, swords. Śāstra and śastra. So there are two sections of people: those who are civilized, they are ruled by the śāstra, by the law codes, and those who are law-breakers, they are ruled by the śastra, weapons. Both things are required, śāstra and śastra. And sasam, sasam means government. The government has two department-criminal and civil. Civil department is controlled by the śāstra, law codes, and the criminal department is governed by the śastra, weapons. So this is the rule from time immemorial. Both things are required. Sometimes violence required, police force required for the unruly persons. They'll not care for the śāstra, don't care for śāstra, but you care for the śastra. So two things are there.



*Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am this and that.'' He says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. Those who are sober, those who want to understand Kṛṣṇa, they can understand Kṛṣṇa in very step of life. Just like raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, "I am the taste of the water.'' Water you have to drink. Just like I drank just a minute before and quenched my thirst. But that quenching active principle is Kṛṣṇa. So we can realize Kṛṣṇa every time we'll drink water. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śās..., prabhāsmi śaśi sūryayoḥ. Kṛṣṇa is the sunshine, Kṛṣṇa is the moonshine. Kṛṣṇa is the fragrance of the flower. As soon as you take a flower and smell it, the fragrance is Kṛṣṇa. In this way, every step we can understand Kṛṣṇa. Even in sex life we can understand Kṛṣṇa. That is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi, sex life which is not against the religious codes. What is that? Sex life for begetting children is allowed. That is not against the religious code, and that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi. Kāma, lust. Sex life is the business of lust. Kṛṣṇa says "Yes, lust is also good provided it is not against the religious codes.'' So nothing is bad; everything is good, if it is for developing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nothing is bad, because everything is creation of Kṛṣṇa. How it can be bad? It cannot be bad; *it is good, provided we follow the rules and regulations. Everything is good. Therefore we are consult various śāstras. Nana-śāstra*-vicaraṇaika-nipunau, vicāra. Vicāra means to study them with careful attention. Vicāra. Nana-śās... So these Gosvāmīs were studying many kinds of Vedic literatures. There are hundreds and thousands of Vedic literature-primarily four Vedas, Sama, Yajur, Atharva, Ṛg, Atharva. Then from the Vedas, there are supplementary Vedas, which are called Purāṇas, eighteen Purāṇas. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is one of the Purāṇas, Mahā-Purāṇa. Then there is, there are Mahābhārata, "The Great History of India.'' Bhārata means India, and Mahā means greater, greater India. The greater India was the whole planet. The whole planet was Bhārata-varṣa. Now it is crippled. It has become a small tract of land. But originally everywhere, this portion of the world, America, it was also Bhārata-varṣa. Sapta-dvīpa, seven islands. Seven islands. Actually the whole planet is full of water-Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Indian Ocean. Full of water. And these are islands only-Asia, Europe, America. There are seven islands, sapta-dvīpa. The planet is sapta-dvīpa, seven full, comprising of seven islands. That is Bhārata-varṣa.

*So nana-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipunau. So we have to study the Vedic literature very carefully, following the footsteps of Gosvāmīs. Not only chanting. This is also required, kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna. But this is meant, if you simply go on chanting without reading books, that is also good. Especially in this age, because nobody has got power to study books. Education is very less, so still, one who is able, they should consider all this. We have given in English translation. So many important books, you study, and chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra like this, and that is the following the footsteps of Gosvāmīs. Ācāryopāsanā. We have to worship the ācāryas. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, for making advancement in spiritual life, ācāryopāsanā. So this is ācāryopāsanā, by reading their books, nana-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau. Why studying so many books? For the sake of establishing real religious life. Sad-dharma. There are two kinds of dharmas, religious, religions: pravṛtti-mārga, nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛtti-mārga means materialism, and nivṛtti-mārga means spiritualism. Pravṛtti means because we had intention to enjoy this material world, therefore we have given this material body by the energy of Kṛṣṇa, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27], by the..., for associating with this material world. We are spirit soul. We have been given this chance to associate with the material world, this material, which is called... So there is still the rules and regulation. You associate, you enjoy this material world under this instruction, then you'll not be fallen. You'll not be implicated. That's śāstra. Śāstra gives you codes. Just like when I immigrated in this land, they gave me one paper, welcome, and some immigration rules. That is śāstra. Similarly, the Vedas means the rules and regulation which following they'll very happily live in this material world. Material world is not required by me or you. We are spirit soul. We have no business in the material world. Just like we are living entities of the land. We have no business with the water. But if anyone wants to cross over the sea, he must have a well-built ship to cross over. Similarly, we spirit souls we have no business in this material world, but because we wanted to enjoy it, leaving the association of Kṛṣṇa, we have been given this ship, this body, to ply over this material ocean. So if you know how to ply the ship over the ocean there is no, I mean to say, fear of being drowned. If you have got a good captain of the ship and the ship is well built, then you'll have no danger. So the captain, he is the spiritual master, and this body is a very good ship. This is, these are the examples given. We have to cross over this material ocean. So we must have a captain and good ship, and favorable air. If the air is favorable, suppose you're going to the western side, and if the wind is blowing toward western side, it will automatically push your boat or ship. It will be favorable. If you go against the wind, it is difficult. So you have got a very good ship-this human form of body*-and the captain is the spiritual master, and the favorable wind blowing, the instruction of the śāstras. So taking this opportunity, if you cross over this material ocean, then there is no difficulty. So we should take opportunity of this body, of the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, and the spiritual master, then very easily we cross over.

*Nana-śāstra*-vicaraṇaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau lokanam hita-karinau. The Gosvāmīs were very much fond of doing welfare activities for the general people, just like this movement. This movement is the greatest welfare activities in this world. Lokanam hita-karinau. It is beneficial for all kinds of human being. Nana-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau lokanam hita-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau. So if we execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, following the footsteps of the Gosvāmīs, then tri-bhuvane manyau, you will be honored in the three worlds, wherever you go. Just like I am Indian, but you are honoring me. Why? Have I bribed you with my Indian money, currency? I came with forty rupees only, had no money. Why? Because you are having some message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the state of being honored. Similarly, just like this time when I went to India, all my American students-forty students are still there-they're being honored very nicely everywhere. In every city-Calcutta, Bombay, Benares, Amritsar. Why? Many American tourists go there. They are not honored. But why these boys are honored? Only for this kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So not only... This is the process. Any country you go, if you are strictly adhering to the rules and regulation and chanting sixteen rounds, that is your spiritual strength, and following the prohibitive rules, then you will be honored everywhere. Any part of the world you go, you'll be honored. It is not very difficult to chant sixteen rounds and following the regulative principles, but if you follow strictly, rigidly, you'll get spiritual strength and you'll be honored all over the world. Just take this secret. They'll not ask you to know how far you are educated, or that you have passed your M.A. examination or Ph.D. No. They will be charmed by this kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana.

*So the Gosvāmīs showed us the way. Then next, śrī*-gaurāṅga-guṇānuvarṇana-vidhau. They were very expert in describing the transcendental qualities of Lord Sri Caitanya, Gaurasundara, śrī-gaurāṅga-guṇānuvarṇana-vidhau. So in this way they passed their life in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if we'll follow the footsteps of such mahājana, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Our business is, we haven't got to make research work. Everything is there, given by the Gosvāmīs and ācārya. We have simply to follow. That's all. Who, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God, you haven't got to make research. Kṛṣṇa is personally saying about Himself, Bhagavad-gītā, "I am like this.'' Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8], mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. So these are thing there. You have simply to accept it, to know it and follow it. Then your life is successful. We are not so foolish that we are going to make research work. Why? When there are so many things present already, what is the use of research work? First of all assimilate what is already there. And what is research you can make? Your senses are faulty, imperfect. What research you can work? So that is not possible. That is humbug. You simply try to understand, without any malinterpretation, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. And you follow the ācāryas, then your life is successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



710705LE.LA

Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, July 5, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...He was traveling in South India. He saw one brāhmaṇa reading Bhagavad*-gītā. And persons who knew him, that "That man was illiterate," it was not possible for him to read Bhagavad-gītā... But still, he was trying to read it, and crying also. So while others were criticizing, Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to him, "Brāhmaṇa, what you are reading?" So he could understand that "This person, He's not come here to criticize me. He's serious." So he talked seriously, "Sir, I am reading Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately, I am illiterate." Now see. He is illiterate and he is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired that "How is that, you're reading Bhagavad-gītā and you say you are illiterate?" He said, "Yes, actually I am illiterate, but my Guru Mahārāja asked me that 'You should read every day eighteen chapters.' So what can I do? (laughter) I have to carry out the order of my spiritual master. So I have simply taken this book. I am seeing it." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, you are not seeing it, simply. You are crying also." "Yes, Sir, I am crying also." "Then if you are not reading, how you are crying?" "Sir, I am not reading, but I'm feeling." "What is that?" "As soon as I take this Bhagavad-gītā in my hand, immediately I feel Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna sitting on the same chariot, and Arjuna is ordering Kṛṣṇa that 'You drive my chariot between the two soldiers,' and Kṛṣṇa is driving. So I am simply feeling how Kṛṣṇa is nice, that He can work as a servant of His devotee. When I feel like that, I cry, how Kṛṣṇa is so kind." Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately embraced him, that "You are really studying Bhagavad-gītā." So unless we develop our love for Kṛṣṇa, there is no meaning of reading. And if we can develop our love for Kṛṣṇa just like this brāhmaṇa, even without reading any book, that is wanted. That is wanted. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ. Therefore Kṛṣṇa also confirms, mayy āsakta-manāḥ, "Simply by increasing attachment for Me." Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means "under the direction of Me or My representative." Mat.



*So one who performs this yoga system, how to increase love for Kṛṣṇa, that's all, then you understand everything. The Vedas, they confirm it. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then everything will be understood. Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, God is everything. To understand Kṛṣṇa, simply this attachment... Mayy āsakta*-manāḥ. Āsakti means attachment. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is... We are teaching people, our students especially, how to increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Why this temple? They are feeling that "We are sitting in Kṛṣṇa's presence. Kṛṣṇa is so nicely dressed. I am dressing." Otherwise, from atheistic point of view, you see that "Why these people are bothering like this? They have taken a brass idol and wasting time after it?" They can say like that. Because they have no love for Kṛṣṇa. But one who has love for Kṛṣṇa, he sees, "Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He's accepting my dressing. I am crowning. I am garlanding." That is a feeling.

*So the whole process is to increase our feeling of love for Kṛṣṇa. That is required. Not anything else. Just (like the) gopīs. They were not Vedāntists. They were not scholars. They were village girls, and also low class. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, the third class. The fourth class is the śūdra. They were neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya. Vaiśya. Kṛṣi*-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Vaiśyas, they have to take three kinds of profession: agriculture, trade, and cow protection. As the kṣatriyas were meant for giving protection to the human being, the vaiśyas are understood to give protection to the cows. Go-rakṣya. Go means cow; *rakṣya means protection. That is their business. So these Vṛndāvana people, they were... Nanda Mahārāja, he had 900,000's of cows, and he was a big man amongst the agriculturists. So they were ordinary men, agriculturists, taking care of the cows. They were not Vedāntists, not philosopher, not scientist. Ordinary. But what is their credit? The credit is nobody could love Kṛṣṇa excelling them. That was their credit. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū*-vargeṇa yā kalpitā: "There is no comparison of the method of worship which was adopted by the damsels of Vraja." Unalloyed love for Kṛṣṇa. No bargaining: "By loving Kṛṣṇa, I shall become a big man, I shall become a great philosopher, or great scientist," or "I shall improve my material condition." These are anyābhilāṣitā. And bhakti begins when one is devoid of all these material considerations. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Śūnyam means when one makes zero all these material desires. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam: [Cc. Madhya 19.167] even uncovered by the resultant action of philosophical speculation and fruitive activities. Everyone is working to get some result. That is called fruitive activities. So a pure devotee has no such desires. He has no other desires. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. Their only business is how to please Kṛṣṇa. That can be done by everyone, if he wants. Take, for example, if you want to please me, it does not require high education or great amount of riches or knowledge or beauty. Nothing. It is your business how to love me, how to please me. That you will know.

*So if we want to love Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will let us know. Kṛṣṇa is within you. Simply we have to decide that we shall love Kṛṣṇa only. That is wanted. Then everything is there. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. The kim word is used: "What is the use of?" That is kim. So the śāstra says that if you have learned how to love Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of these books? There is no use. You can avoid anything, all this reading. But if you have actually developed your love for Kṛṣṇa... And after reading all these books, philosophy, science, if you cannot love Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of it? Both ways. Useless. If you do not love, do not develop your love for God or Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of your philosophizing and scientific knowledge? This is all useless. And if you actually have learned how to love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then there is (no) need of philosophy or science or books. So therefore the main point is how to develop. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends this. Premā pumartho mahān. Our greatest success of life is how to love God, Kṛṣṇa. That is greatest success. Now you can do it. But there is prescribed method, given by great ācāryas. Just like in this temple we are doing. We are timely giving. The atheist will say, "Oh, these are so foolish that they are taking so much labor for preparing food and offering and wasting time. Best thing would have been to go to some club and enjoy wine and playing cards." They'll waste time in that way, but when... We are not wasting, but they say we are wasting time. They will criticize. You see? They are prepared to waste time in a brothel, but if people are sitting nicely in a temple and talking of Kṛṣṇa, serving Kṛṣṇa, they will laugh. That is our position. So we have to become callous to all these criticisms. We have to go with our business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.

Thank you. (end)

Lecture

-

Los Angeles, July 11, 1971



710711LE.LA



*Prabhupāda: ...the spiritual platform. The past, present and future calculation is according to this body. That there are different calculation, it is scientifically proved*-relativity, law of relativity. This world's past, present and future is different from the past, present, future of ordinary man. The ant's past, present and future is different from human being. So, this past, present and future is in relationship with this body. Actually, as we are eternal spirit soul, we have no past, present or future. Just like this child, he is playing. After a few years this age will be a past tense. Every one of us, we had also similar body, and that is now past tense. But I am this proprietor of the body. I remember that in such and such year I was a child like this, in such and such year I was a boy like this, in such and such year I was a young man like this. Therefore, "I" is eternal. I am eternal. This past and present and future is due to the change of body. Is it not a fact? I am the same, feeling; I am feelng same. The old man, an old man, he also remembers his enjoyments during his youthful time, and sometimes he wants to go back to those youthful days. An old man, when he meets his old friends, he talks about his youthful days. That means as spirit soul I am always youthful, but due to this condition of this body, I am feeling sometimes childish, sometimes old man, sometimes this or that.



*Bhagavad-gītā explains this idea very nicely: na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. The spirit soul has no birth nor death. This body, just like we are no longer in our past childhood body, similarly, when this body will be also finished, it does not mean that I will not exist. I will continue to exist. As I am existing, as I can remember my childhood days, my youthful days, therefore I am existing. In spite of my..., that childhood body being finished, my youthful body being finished, I am existing. Similarly, after finishing this body also, I will exist. Is there any difficulty to understand? There is no difficulty. I am eternal. The only difference is that, because we are infinitesimal living spark, therefore we forget. Just like I can remember roughly about my childhood days, but I cannot remember the day to day activities in my childhood. That is, that defect is there due to my infinitesimal position. In the Bhagavad-gītā this fact was very nicely discussed between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa said that "This philosophy was spoken by Me to the sun*-god millions of years ago," Arjuna inquired, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, how can I believe that you spoke some millions of years ago this philosophy to the sun-god?" What was the answer? The answer is, Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, millions and millions of times I also appeared, and you also appeared. The difference is that you do not remember, I remember." That is the difference between God and ordinary living being. Otherwise, qualitatively, God and the living entity the same. So only difference is that He is great, infinite. Therefore, we can not calculate His infinite qualities. But I, being infinitesimal, my qualities, my capacities, my energy, they are very infinitesimal. Therefore, I forget. And because I forget, therefore I cannot remember what was my body in my last birth. Because I cannot remember. Death means forget. Just like at night you forget everything, sleeping. Similarly, when this body is finished, we forget about this body. We are interested in the next body. So this forgetfulnss is the opposite number of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are trying to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are trying to get out of this conditional life of forgetfulness. That is our perfection of life. We are trying to achieve that perfectional state of life. That is called struggle for existence, and somehow or other defeated.

*So, our last point of perfection, where we can survive eternally, is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started in your country. It is not a new manufactured thing, concocted thing. It is very old, because the Bhagavad*-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means Bhagavad-gītā. Even from historical calculation, the Bhagavad-gītā was spoken at least five thousand years ago. So, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, even from historical calculation, at least five thousand years old. So, modern history of the world cannot give any chronological data of historical event more than three thousand years, but this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is still older, from prehistoric days. It is not new. Eternal. As I am eternal, God is eternal, this consciousness is also eternal. But because we have forgotten due to the covering of the illusory energy, we have to revive it. That is our business. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said,

*nitya*-siddha-kṛṣṇa-bhakti 'sādhya' kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya

[Cc. Madhya 22.107]



This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dormant in every person; *otherwise why you are taking so much interest? You are all American boys and girls. I don't think in this meeting there is any Indians. Somebody may say that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian, Kṛṣṇa is Hindu. It is Hindu God." No. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. If Kṛṣṇa would not have been for everyone, how could you, especially, take up this movement so serious? Kṛṣṇa also said that He does not belong to any particular sect. He said that all living entities in different types of forms, 8,400,000's of forms, and Kṛṣṇa claims that He is the seed*-giving father of all of them.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not limited to any particular sect, any particular country, or people. It is for everyone. It is universal. Simply we have to revive it. That consciousness is there in everybody. It is dormant, and we are just trying to revive it. Just a man is sleeping, and some of his friends is calling him, "Mr. such and such please wake up. You are too much sleeping. Please wake up." So, similarly, our movement is, in this country, "My dear Western brothers, you are too much sleeping in material hallucination. This is not your business. Sleeping is not business. Please wake up. Please be awakened. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So, simply by awakening... Our business is to awaken, and then he takes to it. Then he remembers everything.

So, I am so pleased that these boys are kindly helping me in spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and Kṛṣṇa will bless them. I am very insignificant. I have no capacity. My business is only to convey the message of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a postal peon: his business is to convey the letter. He is not responsible for the body of the letter. The reaction... After reading one letter the addressee may feel something, but that responsibility is not for the peon. Similarly, my responsibility is, what I have received from disciplic succession, from my spiritual master, I am just presenting the same thing, but without any adulteration. That is my business. That is my responsibility. I must present things exactly in the same way as it was presented by Kṛṣṇa, as it was presented by Arjuna, as it was presented by our ācāryas, Lord Caitanya, and at last my spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja. So, similarly, if you take up the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the same spirit, and if you distribute to other people, to your other countrymen, surely it will be effective, because there is no adulteration. There is no bluff. There is no cheating. It is pure spiritual consciousness. Just practice it and distribute it. Your life will be glorious.

Thank you very much. (end)



710716LE.DET

Lecture

-

Detroit, July 16, 1971



Prabhupāda: So the window doors are open or not?



Devotee: Yes, they're open.



Prabhupāda: Then open... There are so many men. It must be... Ventilation must be there.



*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya. Ajñāna means ignorance, darkness. Timi. Timi means darkness. So ajñāna-timirāndhasya: one who is in ignorance and in the darkness, such a person, every one of us... This material advancement of civilization is not knowledge. People may not agree with us, but actually this is the fact. This is ignorance. Suppose I have come here in your city. I have got some business. So if I forget my business and I become busy with my apartment, is that very sound knowledge? I have come here to execute some business. I have got my temple here. There are devotees. They want to see me. I want to see them. They want to take something, spiritual knowledge, from me, and my duty is to impart. This is the business. But if I simply become engaged how to decorate the apartment where I shall live and forget my business, does it mean that I am very intelligent? No. Therefore that is called ignorance. I forget my real business; *I become engaged in some business which is very temporary. I am here for two days. I shall live in an apartment. It may be very nice or not very nice*-that is not very important thing. For two days I can live anywhere, even underneath a tree. That does not hamper my business. But I must be very serious about my business. That is intelligence. If I forget my business and simply engage myself how to decorate the apartment, or simply thinking how I shall live here comfortably... Just like I saw one advertisement while coming: "Comfortably living in (indistinct) begins here." I saw.



*So we are contemplating to live in this material world very comfortably. That has become our business. That is very much manifest in your Western countries. They are always busy how to live comfortably in this world. But they forget that one day will come, however secure and comfortable we may make our country or home, we will be kicked out: "Please get out immediately." You cannot say that "I have not finished my decoration of the apartment. Let me stay here for some days." No. The death is so cruel that one day, all of a sudden, it will come and say, "Please get out immediately." So if I could not finish my business during that time, and if I am kicked out, then just imagine how much loss we suffer and what kind of fool we are. The modern civilization, they do not know this. They think that "This body has come out all of a sudden by accident"*-and the body means the senses-"and let us enjoy the senses to the best capacity. That is perfection of life." The whole world, especially the Western country, their ideology, philosophy, is this, hedonism. "Enjoy this life very comfortably, as nicely as possible." But that is a great defect and great mistake. Those who are in gross sense enjoyment platform, it is very difficult for them to understand. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām [Bg. 2.44]. Those who are too much attached to material sense enjoyment, bhoga... Bhoga means material sense enjoyment. And roga, roga means which puts impediments to sense enjoyment, or diseased condition. You cannot enjoy life in diseased condition. (aside:) Don't make that sound. Hear first of all. So bhoga, roga, and there is another word, yoga. These are Sanskrit words. Bhoga. Bhoga means enjoying sense gratification. Roga means diseased condition, where, when we cannot enjoy. And yoga means to get out of this bhoga and roga and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is called yoga. Bhogī, rogī, and yogi. (laughter) Yes. Bhogī means they are interested in sense gratification, and rogī means those who are suffering.

*Every one of us suffering more or less, because this is a place where suffering is the condition of life. But we forget. That is called ajñāna. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Ajñāna means that we living entities, being part and parcel of God, our position is as good as God. We may be little God, but our position qualitatively is as good as God. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they take it that we are as good as God in full strength. No. That is not. Just like part and parcel, anyone can understand, a little part of any good thing... Suppose gold. A little particle of gold, it is gold. That's a fact. But it is not as valuable as the lump of gold. The lump of gold is more valuable. The mine of gold and a particle of gold: particle of gold is also gold, but not equal to the gold mine. So the Absolute Truth, God, is just like gold mine, and we, every one of us, everything-a part and parcel of that gold mine. We are also gold. But the quality being the same, the propensities should be also the same. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Here Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with gopīs. So because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we also want to enjoy life with young girls, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. This propensity to enjoy life with young girls or young boys, that is natural. Yuvatīnāṁ yathā yunoḥ yunaṁ yatati yathā yuvatī (?). Young girl, young boy, they have got natural tendency to mix, to love. That is not unnatural. Why? Because this propensity is there in the Supreme. Just like you see Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa picture.

*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*Govinda, Lord Kṛṣṇa, He has expanded His ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa energy. That ānanda-cinmaya-rasa energy expanded, there are so many gopīs, cowherds boys, cows, calves. They're giving, all combined together, ānanda, transcendental bliss to Kṛṣṇa. Just like... It is not very difficult to understand. Just like somebody keeps a batch of dogs to love. The dog also love the master, and the master loves the dog. So why not Kṛṣṇa loving cows and calves and they also love Kṛṣṇa? What is the difficulty to understand? This tendency try to understand.



*The Vedānta*-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now what is the Absolute Truth? That is the question in the Vedānta-sūtra. The answer is, "The Absolute Truth is that from which everything emanates." Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Now, now, what is that Absolute Truth? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: "By nature He is blissful." Now try to understand. If the Absolute Truth, God, is blissful, full of enjoyment... Blissful means without enjoyment there is no bliss. Ānandamaya abhyāsa. So we must be blissful. We must enjoy life very nicely. But that is not possible here, because here we are in diseased condition. The proof of diseased condition is that there is birth, death, old age and disease. These are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Every effort is being made here to surpass distressed condition and to reach to the platform of happiness. The whole struggle is there. Why people are running by motorcar this way and that way? The background is to be happy, how to become happy. But they are making planning: "I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in that way." Just like there is advertisement, "Come on. There are some naked girl pictures." They are inviting, "Come here. You will be happy." So we are planning for happiness. Why? Why you are searching after happiness? Because constitutionally you are happy. Just like when we fall diseased we go to the doctor, physician, to cure the disease. Why? Because constitutionally we are healthy. To remain healthy is our normal life, and to fall diseased condition, that is not normal; *that is abnormal. Therefore we go to the physician, take medicine, ask treatment, "How shall I be cured?" Similarly, we are searching after happiness. Why? Because constitutional position is we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, who is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta*-sūtra 1.1.12). He is by nature full of bliss. But our blissfulness has been disturbed. Now we shall have to find out why our happiness has been disturbed so that life after life, we are searching after happiness but we are becoming frustrated. That is our business, not to make the temporary place very comfortable.

Just like when you go to your office but you find the bus too much crowded. But you are not happy. Because the bus is too crowded, you have to stand, or very..., with difficulty you have to stand. You don't like that. But because you have to go to the office, you tolerate. You tolerate. "First my business is to go to office, attend at the time. What can be done? Let me suffer this." Similarly, if you are serious about your business, that seriousness can be understood in this human form of life. The animals cannot understand. The animals, they are taken to slaughterhouse, and one said... If one animal enters, all the animals will enter. They do not know. Even they know that "We are going to be slaughtered," they have no means to protest or to go out. If a human being is slaughtered in the street, then his relatives, his kinsmen, file suit and brings the man into law. So many facilities are there for a human being. But an animal, because it is animal, it has no facility. A cow is born in America, and a gentleman is born in America, but the state takes care of the gentleman, not of the cows. They say "national," "nationality." Why nationality is refused to the animals? Just like few days or few years ago the nationality was also awarded to the black man. This is nice. Why one section of humanity should be denied nationality? That was very nice. So similarly, if national means the living entity born in that land... That is natural. If a child, even of an Indian, if a child is born in your country he gets immediately the citizenship. That is the law. So the conclusion is that anyone who is born in this land, he gets nationality. But why we should refuse nationality to the poor animals? This is called ignorance. He is also... But we have made concoction, law, that "Animal has no soul." Why it is, it has no soul? What is the difference between you and animal? You eat; the animal eats. You sleep; the animal sleeps. You have sex life; *the animal has sex life. You also try to defend yourself and the animal also tries to defend himself. So āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca, eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, these four principles, bodily demand, are similar to the animal and to the man. So why the animals should be denied nationality? It is not that because they are less intelligent they should be denied nationality. No. Just like a father has got four boys. Not that everyone is of the same intelligence. But does the father give less protection to the less intelligent son? No. The protection, the family protection, is equal for everyone.

*These are the conception, bhāgavata community, equal right to everyone, even to the animals. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ, learned. One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is fully learned, paṇḍita. So what is the symptom of a paṇḍita, learned man? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



One person is very learned. In our country a brāhmaṇa is supposed to be very learned; *therefore he is addressed as paṇḍita. Paṇḍita means very learned. Nowadays he may be a fool number one, but he is called paṇḍita. That is not actually the fact. A brāhmaṇa means very, very learned in Vedic literature. Veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. One who has studied the Vedas very nice, he is vipra. So one who is actually paṇḍita, he will see a learned brāhmaṇa, a hog, a dog, and a caṇḍāla, an elephant, like that, everyone, all living entities*-that means all living entities-on the equal level because he sees to the soul, not to the body. Just like we are meeting here. We are seeing each other. We have not come here to see the dress; we have come to see or to learn some knowledge. Similarly, the human life is especially meant for grasping the knowledge we are missing. The missing knowledge is that I have forgotten that I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is the missing point. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for reviving that lost consciousness. That lost consciousness. We have lost this consciousness that "I am the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the supreme blissful enjoyer, but somehow or other, being complicated within this matter, I am suffering. I am trying to become happy with this material atmosphere, which is not possible." Just like if you are put into the water you may be very nice swimmer, but you cannot be happy there because the water is not your place. You are a living entity of the land. Similarly, a fish, if you take out of the water and give it a velvet bedding, "My dear fish, you lie down here, on the velvet," he'll die because the condition is different. Similarly, we are spirit soul, Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. So unless we go back to Kṛṣṇa, just like the gopīs or the cowherds boy, we cannot be happy. There is no possibility.



*So the ideal pictures are there, that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and you go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa, and be happy. That is our program. It is very nice program. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not an ordinary, bluffing movement. It is a solid, authorized movement, and we are opening branches as far as possible in all parts of the world to give facility to the people, to the civilized men, to understand what is the value of his life, how he can be happy. That is our business. We have no business to cheat you, that "I give you some mantra, and you give me some money. I go away." No. We have come to serve you, so you take advantage. You don't misunderstand us, that "It is a religious sect." No. We are not religious sect. We are cultural sect. We are giving the highest culture to the human society, to awaken his lost consciousness. So I am very happy to see you all, American boys, Indians. This is wanted. We want to unite the whole world under this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And actually that is happening. In our society we have got devotees from all section of people-from Christian, from Jews, from Hindus, from Muhammadan, from black, from white. It doesn't matter, because we are seeing according to the Bhagavad-gītā, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. A learned man sees every living entity on the equal level. So we are trying to see in that light, and we are trying to teach others also how to accept that light, how to enjoy that light. So it is a very serious movement. You can take. Every one of you can take advantage of it. It is not very difficult to practice, because our process is very simple. You come and chant with us Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can pronounce this word Hare Kṛṣṇa. Actually we are seeing all over the world. There is no difficulty to chant this mantra. It is open. There is no secrecy, that "I shall give you one mantra, a particular mantra for you." No. This mantra is one, and it is equally applicable to everyone*-to the learned, to the ignorant, to the white, to the black, to the old, to the youth. Everyone can chant. And actually it is happening. It is very easy. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and learn how to chant. There is... Of course, there is no hard and fast rules. You begin chanting in whatever condition you are and see the result. And so far examples, we have got our temples, we have got our devotees. How they are living, how their characters are being formed, how they are becoming purified, how their faces are becoming brighter, you try to see. It is practical. So that is our request, that you take full advantage of this center. You come here. It is being guided by one of my best disciples, Bhagavān dāsa. So he and others will help you. Please come regularly to this temple and take advantage of it.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!



Prabhupāda: So is there any other business? I shall go.



Devotee: Prasādam.



Prabhupāda: All right. Ārati? If you have got any question, you can... Sit down. Come on.



Bahulāśva: What is the thing that will please you most, Śrīla Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Bahulāśva: What is the thing that would please you the most?



Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!



Prabhupāda: That is the simple thing. You are chanting. I am very much pleased. That's all. I came to your country to chant, that "You chant also along with me." So you are helping me by chanting. So I am pleased. But this tendency is very nice, that you want to please me. That is very good. And to please me is not very difficult. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Under My order, every one of you go and preach and become spiritual master." And what is that order? The order is that "Whomever you meet, you talk to him about Kṛṣṇa."



*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*He says that "Under My order, you become a spiritual master." To become a spiritual master under the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not very difficult. Unless we adulterate, mix in something nonsense in His teachings, if we simply present, as it is, then every one of us can become a spiritual master. But the difficulty is that they mix up something. Just like you have tasted sweet rice, paramānna. And if somebody mixes some sand with it... The paramānna is very good, but because it is mixed with some sand particles it is spoiled. You cannot take. This is practical. Similarly, the teachings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, teachings of Lord Kṛṣṇa, is very simple. But the rascals put some sand particles. That is the difficulty. Spoils the broth, spoils the everything. "Kṛṣṇa means this, and Pāṇḍava means this." Why "Pāṇḍava means this"? Why not as it is in the Bhagavad*-gītā? So this process should be avoided, mixing sand with the sweet rice. This rascaldom should be avoided. Then you can, everyone can distribute nicely. So many people say, "Oh, Swamijī, you have done wonderful." So I say, the secret of my wonderful activities is that I have not tried to adulterate it. I am simply presenting as it is. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So I have told you that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I say that "You simply surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." So what is the difficulty? Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, and I am simply reproducing it: "Do this." And it is acting. Because I am not adulterating the sweet rice with sand, people are tasting it very nice. So you also follow the same principle. Don't try to adulterate. Present it as it is. And people will like it. There is no difficulty.



*So this is a paramparā. Our system is paramparā, guru*-paramparā. Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. So if we say in a similar way that "Give up everything. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Just always think of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Kṛṣṇa's name. Worship Kṛṣṇa. Offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa," where is the difficulty? It is very simple thing. All our disciples, they are doing the same thing. I have come here for the first time, but before me, Bhagavān dāsa, he has organized. But what is his credit? He has presented the thing as I have told him. That's all. This is wonderful. In Los Angeles also our program is going on very nicely. He, my disciple in charge, Karandhara-he's present here-he's simply doing what I instruct, and he's doing very nicely, first class. Everyone who comes, they become enchanted with the temple, with the activities, with the disciples. So this is the way. This is called paramparā system. Don't try to manufacture. The difficulty is that we are manufacturing. And some rascals are supporting that "Whatever you manufacture, it is all right." This is another rascaldom. They are supporting that "Whatever you think of, religion, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." We don't say that. We say, "What Kṛṣṇa says, that is right. And everything (else) wrong." That is our business. So if you say like that, "What Kṛṣṇa says is all right," that will please me. We don't want to adulterate and bluff.

Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go on. (kīrtana) Very good. Go on. (end)



710720LE.LA

Lecture

-

Los Angeles, July 20, 1971



(tape begins with kīrtana and maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)

*Prabhupāda: So ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here and participating with this movement. It is very important movement to bring man to his original consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to bring a living entity to his original consciousness. Just like there are many mental hospitals. What is that? Bellevue? In your city? The purpose of the hospital is to bring a crazy fellow to his original consciousness. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring all crazy men to his original consciousness. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is to be understood*-more or less crazy. There was a case in India, a murder case, and the murderer pleaded that he became mad. He was mad; therefore he, he did not know what did he do. So in order to test him, whether actually he, at that time, was lunatic or turned mad, the expert civil servant, psychiatrist, was brought to examine him. So the doctor gave his opinion that "So far I have studied cases, all patients I've come in contact, they are more or less all crazy. So in that sense, if your lordship wants to excuse him, that is another thing." So that is the fact. In a nice Bengali poetry, one great Vaiṣṇava poet has written,



*piśācī pāile yena mati*-cchanna haya

*māyā*-grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya



Piśācī, ghost, when a man becomes ghostly haunted, he speaks so many nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is under the influence of this material nature, he is ghostly haunted, and whatever he speaks, he speaks nonsense. Never mind he is a great philosopher, great scientist, but because he is ghostly haunted by māyā, so whatever he's theorizing, whatever he's speaking, that is, more or less, nonsense.



*So our this movement is to bring man to his original consciousness, which is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, clear consciousness. I have several times mentioned this. Just like water, when it falls down from the cloud, it is distilled water. You catch water before falling down to the ground, it is distilled water. The chem... As distilled water is without any contamination, similarly, the rainwater is also distilled water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes muddy*-colored, so many things. Similarly, we spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa... Therefore our original constitutional position is as pure as God, because we are part and parcel of God. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "The living entities are my part and parcel." So fragmental part of gold is gold; it may be fragmental. Similarly, we are minute particles of God's body; *therefore, qualitatively, we are as good as God. The chemical composition of God's body and our body... Not this body. This is material. I am speaking of our spiritual identification, that body. That is as good as God. The chemical composition is one. But similarly, as the rainwater falls down on the ground, similarly, as we come in contact with this material world,... Material world means it is being manipulated by the material energy of Kṛṣṇa, prakṛti, nature. Nature means whose nature? As soon as we speak of nature, it must be inquired, "Whose nature?" God's nature. Nature is not acting independently. That is another foolishness. In the Bhagavad*-gītā, it is clearly said that nature, this material nature is not independent. Just like a foolish man, when he sees that machine is working automatically, machine is not working automatically. There is a driver. A foolish man cannot see behind the machine a driver. That is our defect in vision. A machine, there is electronics working very wonderfully. But behind that electronic work, there is a great scientist who is pushing the button. It is very simple to understand. Machine is matter. It cannot work out of its own accord. It is working under some spiritual direction. Just like this machine, the tape recorder, is working, but it is working under the direction of a living entity, a human being. The machine is all complete, but unless it is manipulated by a spirit soul, it cannot work. Similarly, take it for granted that the whole cosmic manifestation is a great machine, nature. But behind this material nature, there is God, Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*Mayādhyakṣeṇa: "Under My direction..." Mayā adhyakṣena. Adhyakṣa means superintendence. "Under My direction, superintendence..." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram. Cara, cara and acara. Cara means moving, and acara means not moving. Just like trees, mountains, they are not moving, but human beings, animals, ants, they are moving. So there are two kinds of entities: moving and not moving. So Kṛṣṇa says that material nature is acting on both these objects, moving and not moving. "They are acting under My direction."



*So there is supreme control. The modern civilization, they do not understand it due to lack of knowledge. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to enlighten people to come to this point of knowledge. They're all crazy, conducted by the influence of the three modes of material nature. They're not in normal condition. So it is very important movement. We invite... This morning also I said at the press representative meeting at the airport that there are so many universities and, especially in your country, department of knowledge, but why they are not discussing this point? Where is the department of knowledge? Sometimes past, I think sometimes in 1968, when I went to Boston, I was invited to speak in the technical institute. So my first question was that "Where is that technological department which is making investigation between the dead man and the living man?" Where is that technology? A man becomes dead. Something is losing. Where is that technology to replace it? Why do they not try for it? But because it is very difficult subject, they set aside. They are busy for technology, for eating, sleeping, mating and defending, that's all. Animal technology. The animals also trying their best, how to eat nice, how to have nice sex life, how to sleep and how to defend. So what is the difference between man's knowledge and animals' knowledge. The man's knowledge should be developed to find out this technology, what is the difference between a living man and a dead man, a living body and dead body. That is spiritual knowledge. That is... That was taught by Kṛṣṇa in the beginning of Bhagavad*-gītā. Arjuna was talking as a friend, replying Him as a friend. Of course, he was... Whatever he was talking, that was right, but that was right to a certain point. Beyond that point, there are other subject matter of knowledge, which is called adhokṣaja, where our direct perception of material knowledge fails to approach. Just like we cannot see. There are so many microscopes, powerful microscopes. Then find out within this body where is the soul. No, there is no microscope. But soul is there. Soul is there. Bhagavad-gītā informs,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



Asmin dehe, in this body, there is a proprietor of this body. Just like I am proprietor of my body, you are proprietor of your body. I say, "My hand." I don't say, "I hand." It is my hand. So I am different from this hand. Just like say, "It is my book," so book is different from me. "It is my table." Similarly, "my hand," "my eyes," "my leg," "my this," "my that." But where I am? Search out. That is meditation. "Where I am? What I am?"



*So you cannot search out by your material... That. Therefore all these universities, they are setting aside, very difficult subject. They are very much proud by creating a horseless carriage. That's all. Formerly horses were drawing carriages. Now there is motorcar. So they are very much proud: "We have invented horseless carriage." Or wingless bird. There is wing, imitation wing of the aeroplane. But you invent that a soul*-less body. Then there is credit. That cannot be... No machine can work without a soul. I was talking of this computer. What is called? Computer? Eh? Computer. But still, a trained man requires to handle the computer. Then what is the meaning of this computer? Whatever machine you make... Similarly, we should understand that this great machine, which is known as cosmic manifestation, material nature-there is a supreme spirit which is manipulating. That is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says. It is confirmed. So our process of knowledge is very easy and perfect. The scientists, they are searching out what is the ultimate cause or ultimate control of this material nature, and they are putting, theorizing different propositions. But our means of knowledge, very easy and perfect because we are hearing from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. And He says, mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10]. So immediately we know that all this cosmic machine, which is working so nicely and wonderfully, behind this machine the driver is Kṛṣṇa. Exactly behind a machine here, there is a machine driver, similarly, behind this big machine of material nature, there is Kṛṣṇa.

*So our process of knowledge very easy. Kṛṣṇa's book, Bhagavad*-gītā, is the knowledge, book of knowledge which is given by the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. You may argue that "You have accepted Him as a perfect person, but we do not." You may not. But He is perfect person on the evidence of many authorities. It is not by my whims I accept Kṛṣṇa as the perfect person. No. There are many authorities, Vedic authorities. Formerly... Just like Vyāsadeva. He's the author of all Vedic literature, the treasure-house of knowledge, Vedas. He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His spiritual master, Nārada, he accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His spiritual master, Brahmā, he accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1], Brahmā says. "The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa." Īśvara. Īśvara means controller. We are controller, everyone. Nobody can say that "I am without controller." No, that is not possible. Everyone has got a controller. However big officer you may be, you have a controller over your head. But Kṛṣṇa has no controller; therefore He is God. He is controller of everyone, but He has no controller; *therefore He's God. So there are many so*-called Gods nowadays. Very... God has become very cheap, especially they are imported from India. They are not manufactured in here. You are fortunate. But India, they're coming out, "God," practically every day. They are... The other day, Karandhara was telling me that some God was coming to Los Angeles, and they were requested to receive him. So Kṛṣṇa is not that kind of God. I mentioned in my introduction to Kṛṣṇa book that Kṛṣṇa is not that type of God, manufactured in mystic factory. No. He is God. He was not made God, but He is God.

*So the point is that behind this material, big material nature, cosmic manifestation, there is God. That is Kṛṣṇa, and accepted by all authorities. We have to accept things which is accepted by authorities. That is our education. We go to teacher. We go to school. We learn from father, mother. They're all authorities. And our nature is to learn... "Father, what is this?" in childhood. Father says, "This is this, pen. This is spectacle. This is table." So he learns from father, mother, "This is table. This is spectacle. This is pen. This is this. She is my sister. She (He) is my brother." So similarly, if we get information from the authority, and if the authority is not a cheater, then our knowledge is perfect, and very easy. Just like father, mother, never cheats. When the son inquires from the parent, the parent gives exact information, right information. Similarly, if we get right information from the right person, that is perfect knowledge. If you want to reach to the conclusion by speculation, that is imperfect, inductive process. That will never become perfect. It will remain imperfect for all the time. So we get information from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever we speak, that is perfect because we don't speak anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa or authorities who have accepted Kṛṣṇa. That is called disciplic succession. So our process is, process of acquiring knowledge, is very easy and perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We cannot say anything which is not accepted by the authorities coming from Kṛṣṇa. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa recommends this process of knowledge: evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. "This knowledge, formerly, all the great saintly kings..." Formerly, there was monarchy. Just like nowadays also, the government is authority. Your President is authority. So in the days of monarchical king, government, the monarch or the king is head of the government. He is authority. But formerly, those authorities, those kings, were ṛṣis, great learned scholars, ṛṣis, great devotees. They were not ordinary men. That system of government was very nice. One person, well talented, well trained as the head of the government, very peacefully he could execute the governmental function. There were many instances, the Vedic civilization, how the kings were perfect. You'll find from Dhruva Mahārāja's instances that Dhruva Mahārāja went to the forest to search out God, and he found out. By severe type of penances and austerities, he found out God within six months. How? He was a five-years-old body, child. According to the direction of his spiritual master, Nārada, he went alone in the forest, although a king's son, very delicate body. So in the first month he simply used to eat some vegetables after three days, each three days. One, two, three-then he eats something, some fruits, some vegetables. Then next three months, each six days, he used to little, drink little water. And next month, in each twelve days, he used to inhale some air. In this way, for six months he stood in one leg and executed these austerities, and at the end of six months, God became manifest before him eye to eye. So if we follow austerities, then it will be possible to see God eye to eye and perfection of life.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there is austerity, but it is not very difficult. We recommend our students not to have illicit sex. We don't stop sex, but regulate. We don't stop eating, but regulated, Kṛṣṇa prasādam. No meat*-eating. No... We don't say, "No eating," but "No meat-eating." So what is the difficulty? Now see. In our Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, we have got so many varieties of fruits, vegetables, nicely cooked. What is the difficulty? No illicit sex means don't be cats and dogs. Be married man and have one wife, one husband, and be satisfied. So unless we regulate, unless we undergo austerity... We cannot under go such severe type of austerity as Dhruva Mahārāja went, that every three days a little fruit or vegetable, then every six days a little water. That is not possible in these days. If you want to imitate Dhruva Mahārāja, it will be impossible. So we don't prescribe any impossible method, but possible method. But if you take to these principles, then you make advance in spiritual consciousness, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and as you make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you become perfect in knowledge. Otherwise, what is the use of becoming scientist or philosopher who cannot say what is next life? But these students, they can very easily say what is next life, what is God, what I am, what is our relationship. This knowledge, you'll find perfectly, because they are reading perfect book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*So this is our process, very easy. Anyone can adopt and make his life perfect. And if somebody says that "I am not educated. I cannot read book," still, there is possibility. you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have got tongue. You have got ear. Kṛṣṇa has given you. And you'll be surprised to know that Kṛṣṇa is realized through tongue, not through eyes, not through ears. Tongue. Of course, after tongue, the other senses are following. Tongue is the chief. So we have to control the tongue. How to control? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and taste Kṛṣṇa*-prasādam. That's all. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. "You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa by exercising your sensual perception, speculation." It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is so great that He is not within your sensual exercise. No. He can be understood by surrender. Kṛṣṇa, therefore, recommends this process: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Because our disease is rebellious, no authority. We don't want any authority. That is our disease. We say we don't want any authority, but nature is so strong that he forces his authority upon you. You are forced to accept the authority of nature by your sensual exercise. You cannot say that "I am independent." You may say all nonsense, that "I don't want authority," but you are... Everyone is under authority. And that is our foolishness. We are under authority; still, we say we don't want any authority. This is called māyā, illusion. So the best authority is Kṛṣṇa. If we... After all, we have to accept authority. So why not best authority, Kṛṣṇa? Then your life becomes successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Any question?



*Nanda*-Kiśora: What happens to a person if we just give him out on the street one Simply Wonderful or some prasādam, one piece of prasādam?



Prabhupāda: That is wonderful, simply wonderful. (laughter) He has not tasted such wonderful sweet in his life. Therefore you give him wonderful, and because he's eating that wonderful sweet, one day he'll come to your temple and become wonderful.



Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: Therefore it is simply wonderful. So go on distributing this Simply Wonderful. Your philosophy is simply wonderful. Your prasādam is simply wonderful. You are simply wonderful. And your Kṛṣṇa is simply wonderful. The whole process of simply wonderful. And He acts wonderfully, and it is acting wonderfully. Who can deny it?



Devotee: Prabhupāda is simply wonderful.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. You can become... Everyone. All right, have kīrtana. (end)





710811LE.LON

Lecture

-

London, August 11, 1971



*Prabhupāda: I have to speak something? So we are worshiping Rādhā*-Mādhava, the lover or enjoyer of Rādhārāṇī. [break] Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.



*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, is enjoying ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, spiritual bliss. Cinmaya means spiritual, and rasa, bliss. That is eternal. We are also particles of that ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Vedānta-sūtra says every living entity is ānanda-maya. Nature, living entity's nature is to be blissful, happy, always pleasing, but in our material condition of life we are just the opposite. There is neither pleasure, nor knowledge, nor eternity. But these three things are the symptoms of spiritual existence: eternity, blissfulness, and knowledge. [break] Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, these names are so sweet that how I can relish the transcendental sweet... [break] ...Rādhārāṇī, but in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, everything-the land, the water, the trees, the flowers, the cows, the cowherds boy, everything*-they are expansion of Kṛṣṇa's internal potency, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. That is Kṛṣṇa's expansion of His own person. Just like when Brahmā stole all the cows and calves and cowherd boys of Kṛṣṇa to test Kṛṣṇa, whether He is actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa immediately expanded Himself in the typical same way: all the cows, calves, cowherd boys.



*So there, in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything there-variety, all variety. Here also, the varieties are there. That is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's material energy, and in the spiritual world the varieties are expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalā... Nija-rūpa, His own form, expansion. Goloka eva nivasati. Goloka Vṛndāvana. He is permanent resident there. Akhilātma-bhūto, but He is everywhere. Although situated in His own abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He can expand Himself. Because this material energy is also His energy, so from His energy He can manifest Himself anywhere. So here the Lord Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, that is the same Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī who are in the Goloka Vṛndāvana. It is simply expansion to give us facility to accept our service. I think I have given many times this example. Just like in front of your door there is a mailbox. That mailbox, although it appears to be a small box, but it is post office. It is not different from post office. The practical example is that you place your letters within the box and it goes thousands and thousand miles away. Therefore it is post office. Don't think that it is different from the post office. Similarly, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa expansion*-this Deity. When you are worshiping this Deity, exactly, just like you are posting your letters in the mailbox, it is accepted by Kṛṣṇa. Don't think that you are worshiping some doll. No. As the post office kindly places a box before your house to facilitate your business, similarly Kṛṣṇa, goloka eva nivasati, He is living in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, but He expands Himself as Deity to accept your humble service. Never consider that the Deity is made of stone or brass or wood or like that. Brass, wood, stone-everything is Kṛṣṇa because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4]. Me, "It is Mine." So everything is Kṛṣṇa's, and from everything, Kṛṣṇa can appear and accept your service. This is the philosophy. He can appear Himself through stone because stone is His energy. Just like if the electric power is running on, from anywhere you can take electricity, energy. Similarly, his energy is running on everywhere, and you can take the facility of His energy from anywhere, provided you know how to take it. Electric, where insulation is there, but one who knows... I have seen in your country. The telephone man immediately comes and joins telephone. But he knows how to do it. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa can be manifested from anywhere, everywhere, from anything, provided you know how to do it.

So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are teaching people how to see Kṛṣṇa everywhere.

*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.38]



That technique is love of Godhead. If you learn, it doesn't matter what religion you profess. It is no concern. We do not say that "You become Hindu," "You become Muslim," or "Christian." No. We say that "You become lover of God." You learn how to love God. Your loving propensity is there, but it is being misplaced. It is placed on dog instead of God; therefore you are unhappy. When your loving propensity will be placed in the proper place, you will be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love of Godhead.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*If you want happiness, then you must learn how to love God. You are trying to love somebody, but you are being frustrated, foiled. Because except God, nobody is loving object. And if you love God, then naturally you love everything because God is everything. The example is that if you pour water on the root of the tree, it goes everywhere*-to the twigs, to the leaves, to the flowers, everywhere. But if you pour water on the leaf, it is localized. It does not spread. So we are manufacturing, inventing, so many humanitarian work, welfare work, but still, people are unhappy. Why? Because it is pouring water on the leaf, not on the root. So learn by Kṛṣṇa consciousness how to love Kṛṣṇa and how to love your country, your society, your friends, everything. But without loving Kṛṣṇa, you cannot love. This is the secret. And if you love... Just like because I love Kṛṣṇa, therefore I have come to your country. I had no business to come to your country, naturally. But we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we love everyone. We don't make any distinction. We love animals also. We don't like to see animal killing. That is also one of our propaganda: "No meat-eating." Why? To save the animals, because we love animals also. We love even the ant-because we love Kṛṣṇa.



*So this is the technique of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that if you learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, then you will love everything. Otherwise, your love will be localized and you will be frustrated. It is most scientific. And our process is very simple: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name*-nondifferent. So chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa means you are associating with Kṛṣṇa. That means you are directly in touch with the root of everything. So by advancing in love for Kṛṣṇa, you can love your society, your country, your community, your family, your husband, your wife, your children, your friend-everything, complete, pūrṇam. Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya [Iso Invocation]. And that love will never be ended. Pūrṇa. Love of Kṛṣṇa is so complete that you go on distributing this love; it will never be expended. It will remain the same stock. So I am very glad to see you in this temple. Please try to understand our philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have got books, and at the same time we have got the simple method, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, in which even a small child can take part. The small... Most erudite scholar also can take part, and an innocent child who has no education, no literary sense, he can also take part equally. And equally, both of them take the same advantage. A small child who comes before the Deity and dances and claps, he is getting the result. Don't think that it is in vain. He is also getting the same... Just like fire. Either a child touches or an adult touches, fire's action will be there, equal. Similarly, anyone who is coming in this temple, offering obeisances, taking little prasāda, joining with the chanting, hearing some talks, everyone will be benefited spiritually. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotee: Jaya, Prabhupāda. (end)





710813LE.LON

Lecture Excerpt

-

London, August 13, 1971



Prabhupāda: What is that original cause, chunk? Can you say?



Śyāmasundara: Something gas.



Prabhupāda: Gas.



Śyāmasundara: Liquid gas.



*Prabhupāda: So anyway, that is not sentient. That is material. Gas is also material. Gas is another form, vapor. Vapor. Vapor is made out of water. Water or... Vapor is air, major portion of air and minor portion of water. In this way, vapor. So that means it is airy. But no. Air has got its cause. They do not know. Air has got its cause, the sky. The sky has its cause. In this way there is creation. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam everything is explained.



*So this Brahma*-saṁhitā, the point is, in this Brahma-saṁhitā Kṛṣṇa's name is there. In the Atharva Veda there is Kṛṣṇa's name. So our process of knowledge, if there is Vedic evidence, that is perfect. You don't require to experiment. Experimental knowledge is never perfect. The same example as we have given several times: that which is unknowable, inconceivable, that knowledge you cannot get by experiment. That is not possible. You have to receive the knowledge from authority. Just like you cannot understand who is your father by experiment, laboratory. Bring every man and analyze him whether he is your father. Is it possible? No. How many men you will bring in the laboratory? That is not possible. But if you approach to the authority, the mother, immediately you get the knowledge. Ask your mother, "Who is my father?" She'll say, "Here is your father." That means you receive the knowledge from the authority, not by experimental knowledge. Which is inconceivable, beyond your perception, beyond your imagination, that knowledge you cannot get by experiment. They are trying to make experi... [break] ...soul. The so-called scientists, they say, "We are trying." You can try on, but it is beyond your experience, beyond your knowledge. Your senses are all imperfect. You can... You cannot understand soul by experimental knowledge. You have to hear from the authority. Just like Kṛṣṇa says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



This is the process. But you can think over. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehe means "Within this body, there is the proprietor of the body." That is soul. Now, by experimenting, by taking in somebody's body, just like in medical science they dissect the body, you cannot find out. It is so small. Therefore you are saying, "There is no soul." But there is soul. From your experimental knowledge, you cannot understand where is that soul, but there is soul. When the soul is out, the body is dead, useless. That we can experience. Anubhāva. It is called anubhāva perception. So anyone, any sane man, can understand there is something missing. The scientists also say, "the something missing." Now, what is that missing, they cannot say. If they knew it, what is missing, then they are scientists, they could produce again that thing by laboratory mixture of chemicals and put it into the body, and he becomes alive. No, that is not possible. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Therefore Veda says that "Don't uselessly argue on subject matter which is beyond your perception." That is not the process.



*So here, the original cause is being explained by Vyāsadeva. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Now, what type of that supreme cause is that? Is it a stone or sentient? No. Vyāsadeva informs, no. The original cause, how it can be a stone? Original cause cannot be. It must be sentient. Creator must be sentient. Without brain, without creative power, how there can be creation? Where is your argument? No, that is not. These are false arguments. Therefore Vyāsadeva gives you information that He is sentient, in full knowledge. In full knowledge. What kind of knowledge? Anvaya*-vyatirekābhyām, directly and indirectly. That is full knowledge. Just like I say "my head" or "my hair," but if I ask you or you ask that "How many hairs are there?" oh, I am ignorant. I do not know. Similarly, we are so imperfect that we may have little knowledge even of our own body. We are eating, but how the eatables are being transformed into secretion, how they are becoming blood, how they are being passed through the heart, and it becomes red, and again diffuse all over the veins, and in this way the body is maintained, we know something, but how the work is going on, how this factory is going on, how the factory, machine, is working, we have very little knowledge. So indirectly we know that "This is my body." "Indirectly" means we have heard, but we have no direct knowledge. But Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, the original of everything, He knows everything. Anvaya-vyatirekābhyām, indirectly and directly. Kṛṣṇa knows. I do not know how my body is working, but Kṛṣṇa knows. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]. Kṣetra-jña... He is real, Supersoul. There is a Supersoul who is in knowledge of everything. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. Full knowledge. I have no full knowledge of my body, but He has got full knowledge. I forget. What I did in the morning, early in the morning at four o'clock, if you ask me, I'll have to remember, "Yes, what I was doing?" We are so forgetful. Similarly, how we can remember of our past life? We are so forgetful. But Kṛṣṇa... (end)



711112LE.DEL



Pandal Lecture

-

Delhi, November 12, 1971



Prabhupāda: Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement. We are speaking here for the last one week, so it is very encouraging that we are reviving the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness of our brothers and sisters in India.



*This Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement is to be learned from the very childhood. So far personally we are concerned, my father taught me this Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very childhood. My father was a great Vaiṣṇava, and I had the opportunity of taking birth in that family. So he gave me lessons of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very beginning of my life. He gave me mṛdaṅga. He engaged a teacher for learning mṛdaṅga playing. Sometimes my mother was irritated. But somehow or other, I got the inspiration from my father worshiping a small Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa Deity. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. Actually the students, the children, should be given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the duty of the state, that is the duty of the parents, that is the duty of the guru, that is the duty of kinsmen. That is the instruction given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This human form of life, as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. This human form of life is obtained after many, many millions and millions of births, evolutionary process. We have already discussed this point. So that is the Vedic civilization, that a human being should be given chance to understand this Bhāgavata-dharma, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means Bhāgavata-dharma.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends, kaumāram ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. From the childhood. It is not that it is reserved for our old*-age occupation. Sometimes we think like that, that "At the present moment we are young. Let us enjoy life. And at the old age, when you are old enough, preparing for death, at that time we may try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Bhāgavata-dharma." But Prahlāda Mahārāja says no. The children should be taught from the age, as we send our children to school in minor age, similarly we should send our children to understand this Bhāgavata-dharma. I am very pleased, I have seen practically in this Delhi that the Muslim children are given instruction of Koran from very early age. Actually, this should be done for everyone. I am very pleased. Not I am pleased, I may please or not, but that is the way of life. A human child should be given instruction about Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very beginning, and that was our Vedic system, brahmacārī. Brahmacārī should go to the house of the teacher or spiritual master at the age of five years old, and he should remain there for twenty years to understand the value of life. And the brahmacārī would accept any kind of menial work for satisfying the spiritual master. It is stated that nīcayeva, just like menial servant. The brahmacārīs, they come from very respectable family, from brāhmaṇa family, kṣatriya family especially, but they are instructed that "You should accept the order of the spiritual master just like menial servant." And in young age, they do not mind. They do not have any false prestige, that "I am coming from such-and-such respectable family, my father is so rich." Even Lord Kṛṣṇa, He accepted this brahmacārī āśrama. When Sudāmā Vipra met Him when He was king in Dvārakā, so friendly talks, Kṛṣṇa reminded Sudāmā Vipra, "My dear Sudāmā, do you remember that one day we went to the forest to collect fuels, and there was heavy rain and we could not come out. And then we stayed the overnight on the top of the tree. Then next day Guru Mahārāja came and he took our..., rescued us. Do you remember that?" Sudāmā Vipra said, "Yes, I remember." So even Lord Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of others. This was the system, to teach from the very beginning of life this Bhāgavatam.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja's recommendation is very genuine. That is the Vedic system. But he was unfortunately born in an asura family. His father was a great asura. Asura means godless. He had also undergone severe austerity to achieve the power. He was defeated by the demigods. So he left his home and underwent severe austerities so that the whole universe became trembled and Brahmājī came to appease him, "What do you want?" He said, "I want to become immortal." So Brahmājī said, "How can I give you the benediction of immortality, because myself I am not immortal?" Everyone has to die in this material world, either one may be Brahmā or a small ant. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. "So this is not possible. I cannot make you immortal."



Then very diligently, he said, "All right, then no man will kill me."



"All right, accepted."



"No demigod will kill me."



"Also accepted."



"I shall not die at daytime."



"That's all right."



"I shall not die in night."



"That's all right."



"No animal can kill me."



"That's all right."



"No weapons can kill me."



"That's all right." In this way, he thought that "I am very intelligent and I am cheating Brahmājī. Indirectly, by different way, I have now become immortal."



*So he also underwent great austerities, but for material enjoyment. He wanted to live forever in this material world. So he was never interested to teach his children about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But Prahlāda Mahārāja, fortunately, when he was in the womb of his mother, at the care of Nārada Muni, he understood the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because if you associate with a sādhu, the saintly person, then saintly person has nothing to do but simply deliver the knowledge, transcendental knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have no other duty. Just like Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he was king but a great Vaiṣṇava. So about him it is stated, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. He was king, very responsible king, emperor of the world, but he cultivated this Kṛṣṇa consciousness that he fixed up his mind, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravindayor, always fixed up on the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa. If you fix up your mind, concentrate your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa*-Kṛṣṇa is here present-then your mind becomes locked up. It cannot think anything else. Therefore Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.



*And vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha*-guṇānuvarṇane. When you have to talk, let us not talk all nonsense. Vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Let us talk about Bhagavad-gītā, let us talk about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or any book which is describing the transcendental name, fame, glory, quality, pastime of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply we have to change the process of our life, but unfortunately we are not interested. We shall waste our time in the morning, two hours, by discussing on politics and reading newspaper, what has happened. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. What is the news in the newspaper? The same thing. Somebody has murdered something, there is some car accident, one body has done this. The same thing repeatedly we are hearing. There is no other news. But we want to hear the same thing daily, the same newspaper items. Therefore, in the śāstra it is said, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Just like you chew something. Generally we chew that sugarcane. Now I have chewed it, I have taken out all the juice, and then I have thrown it away. If somebody comes, "Oh, let me taste it, what is there?" And another man comes. Is that very good intelligence? We have tasted this material world. Everyone has tasted. It is full of miseries. Tri-tāpa yantraṇā. Tri means three and tapa means miserable condition of life. Tri-tāpa. Adhyātmic, pertaining to this body and mind. Sometimes I am feeling some pain on my body, there is fever or some other ailment, the mind is not in order, this is called adhyātmic. Similarly, adhibhautic. Just like Pakistan is ready to attack us. If not Pakistan, then there are many other enemies. Even there are many other living entities, just like mosquito, fly, bugs. So adhibhautic: another living entity giving us trouble. And adhidaivic. Just like this famine, flood, pestilence, so many things which you cannot control.



*So this is the position of this material world. Tri*-tāpa yantraṇā trisura. You have seen the picture of Goddess Durgā, she is piercing the trisura on the chest of the asura, and he is suffering, his struggle for existence, fighting with the lion, rajo-guṇa. So this is the position of the material world, and the certificate is given by Kṛṣṇa, the Lord Himself, that this place is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Duḥkhālayam, always full of miseries. So the human form of life is meant for understanding what is my position. In the animal life we cannot understand that we are in a very, very miserable condition of life in this material world. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, mānuṣam, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma, tad apy adhruvam. It will not stay. You can say, "All right, there is suffering. Let me suffer for some time, I shall get next life again or I shall be finished." But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Why do you think like that? Why you want to die like cats and dogs? Just acquire the benefit which you can have in this human form of life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Mānuṣam. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma, tad apy adhruvam. Although it will not stay, but it is arthadam. Arthadam means you can achieve the highest goal of life.



*What is that highest goal of life? The highest goal of life is not to have a skyscraper building constructed in my life or have big balance in the bank. No. That is not highest goal of life. The highest goal of life is indicated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. That is also statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Persons who are very much attached to the external world, durāśayā bahir-artha... This external world is called bahiraṅgā śakti, the external energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So here it is just like mirage, just like people...or the not people, animal, running after water in the desert. In the desert, there is some reflection of heat, and the animals think there is water. And they run after water, the water also going ahead and the animal also going ahead. In this way, when he is too much tired, he falls down and dies. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam.



*So this material world is not our actual place of happiness. We should understand this. And the human form of life is meant for that purpose. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, he appeared before Caitanya Mahāprabhu to solve this question, 'ke āmi', 'kene more jāre tāpa*-traya'. That is intelligence. Intelligence means one should be inquisitive about his goal of life. In the Bhāgavata also in another place, the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto. Abodha-jāto, everyone is born ignorant. So in ignorance, whatever you will act, that is our defeat; *that is not our gain. The gain is only when you develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only gain in his human form of life. Otherwise, whatever you gain, that is lost. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply wasting time, time and energy. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "My dear friends..." He was teaching his class friends who were five years old, and he said that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. "Our duty is, so long the next death does not appear, we should develop our dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness." We should not wait. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Parīkṣit Mahārāja was given time, seven days. He was cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy that "Mahārāja, you shall die within seven days, bitten by a snake." So immediately, because he was emperor, so he understood that "I shall have to die." So he prepared himself. For seven days he tried to understand what is his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is imitated at Bhāgavata*-saptāha. But actually, Bhāgavata is not to be studied imitating Parīkṣit Mahārāja for seven days. No. In seven days we cannot understand even one verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, what to speak of the eighteen thousand verses. That is not possible. But it has become a fashion. Bhāgavata says, nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. It is not for seven days; it is for all the life. Parīkṣit Mahārāja had no time more than seven days. Therefore he finished the whole Bhāgavata hearing in seven days. The another instruction is that Parīkṣit Mahārāja had notice for seven days' duration of life, but we do not know whether seven days or seven minutes. It may be I am speaking now, immediately I can stop, because I am completely under the control of the material nature. You know perhaps that one big officer of Indian government, I think he was the Commander in Chief or something like that, he was eating in the feast in Japan, and on the table he died while eating. There was some trouble in the throat by eating fish, and some trouble was there, and he suffocated, died immediately.



So we cannot say whether we are going to live for seven days or seven minutes or seven hours. There is no guarantee. Immediately you can die. Therefore our duty is, before the next death comes, we must develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We must be very serious. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says,



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*We should take Kṛṣṇa consciousness so seriously, immediately, without waiting. And that is very simple also. If we simply understand the seriousness of the business, then we can immediately begin. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We can do it immediately. Immediately, without waiting for a second, and then Kṛṣṇa takes charge. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ.



*So it is not very difficult business, simply we'll have to agree, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa. So long I did not surrender unto You. Now I immediately surrender unto You." Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he sang a very nice song, that arpiluṅ tuyā pade nanda*-kiśora. Mānasa deho geho jo kichu mora. He says that "Whatever I possess." First thing his mind, mānasa. Just like Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. First of all we have to give our mind to Kṛṣṇa because mind is the creative force by which we become entangled. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that mind is the enemy or mind is the friend. If you can create your mind your friend, then there is immense profit Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if you create your mind enemy, the mind will drag you in so many things, you will forget your duty and responsibility of human life. Therefore yoga system, practicing yoga means controlling the mind. Controlling the mind. But the easiest process of yoga system is that you simply think of Kṛṣṇa always, then the perfection of yoga.



Kṛṣṇa says it:



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gataḥ antarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He is the first*-class yogi. Who? Who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always within his mind. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, means to keep Kṛṣṇa always in mind. That is the perfection of yoga. And it is very easy. As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you hear it, then your mind becomes locked up. So therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, mānasa deho geho jo kichu mora. "Whatever I possess, my mind, my this body," mānasa deha geha, "and my home, my wife, my children, my friends," at least my wife, my children. Home means wife and children.



mānasa deho geho jo kichu mora

*arpiluṅ tuyā pade nanda*-kiśora



*Nanda*-kiśora, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is known as Nanda-nandana, Nanda-kiśora, Nanda-kumāra, so many, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa likes to be called like that. If you say simply "Kṛṣṇa," He is not so very satisfied. But if you call Him the son of Nanda Mahārāja, He is very pleased because the name of His devotee. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nobody can be His father. He is the original person. Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. Who can be His father? But when He appears on this material world, He accepts one of His devotee as His father, one of His devotee as mother, in this way. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is very much satisfied when His name..., when He is joined with His devotee's name. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says,



mānasa deho geho jo kichu mora

*arpiluṅ tuyā pade nanda*-kiśora



*Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. "Now You can kill me or You can give me protection, whatever You like. That's all right." Nitya*-dāsa prati tuyā adhikārā. "You have got all rights upon me because I am Your eternal servant." This is called surrender. And Kṛṣṇa wants that because that is my constitutional position, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If we do that, it does not take much time but we attain the highest perfection of this Bhāgavata-dharma. That is wanted.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that yad eva. Yad eva, yathā hi purusasya iha viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam, yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt. He has particularly mentioned the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu. Kṛṣṇa is the original person of Viṣṇu-tattva. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. So He is the origin of the three demigods, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Brahmā is born of Viṣṇu, and Śiva is born of Brahmā. Therefore... And Viṣṇu is born of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is the original person. Ātmeśvaraḥ, ātmeśvaraḥ viṣṇoḥ. Priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt. Kṛṣṇa says that He is suhṛt. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. Kṛṣṇa says. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā [Bg. 5.29]. One should know that our best friend is Kṛṣṇa. And ātmeśvaraḥ, and He is the Lord of me. I am ātmā and He is Paramātmā, ātmeśvaraḥ. Therefore, ultimately... Now when there is danger, when there is danger, now we take care of our protection immediately. Ātmānaṁ sarvato rakṣet. Everyone is busy to protect himself. Why do we eat? Just to keep our body fit. And why do we keep our body fit? Because I can think nicely or I can realize myself. That is the purpose of keeping the body fit, not for eating. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-dā. The real motive of life is to understand or self-realize. One has to understand what I am.



*So we have to keep this body not for eating but for keeping ourself fit to understand what I am. That is the purpose of life. So here Prahlāda Mahārāja says first of all we can understand what I am. And when you understand, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], "I am the eternal part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is self-realization, to understand one's own position, what I am. It is very simple. We have to accept it. The Bhagavad-gītā says that "I am...," that "The living entity is My part and parcel." In another chapter He says, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā, jīva-bhūtaḥ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. So this ātmā, I am ātmā, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Prakṛti. I am not puruṣa. I am not bhoktā. This is the self-realization. So Prahlāda Mahārāja explains that, that yathā hi puruṣasya iha viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam. Our only duty is to worship Lord Viṣṇu. That is the Vedic injunction, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja instructs that we should immediately engage ourself in satisfying Viṣṇu. That is the program of human civilization. Human civilization means one who accepts the varṇāśrama*-dharma, because that is a program gradually one can understand his relationship with Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. Here Prahlāda Mahārāja also says, viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam. Why Viṣṇu? That is explained here, that yad eva sarva-bhūtānāṁ priya, sarveśvaraḥ ātmā. Everyone is very much attached. Now suppose there is some fire incidents at home. A man will forget all his wife and children; *he will come out immediately to save himself, because we love ourself very much. It is a fact. Self*-preservation is the first law of nature. We forget. Sometimes it does happen, one man has come out when there is fire in the house. And after coming out, he is crying, "Oh, my son is left. Son is left inside." Why? Why you left your son? Because you think, everyone thinks, that "My ātmā is very dear to me. "And why ātmā is dear to him? Because the ātmā is the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Therefore, ultimately comes to the Supreme Lord. He is our dear, but we have forgotten. We have forgotten. Prahlāda Mahārāja reminds. Priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt. And He is actually suhṛt, the best friend. Don't consider that here in this material world some friend is helping you or somebody is helping you. No. They cannot be suhṛt. They have got some interest. Here in this material world it is business. If I become your friend, it means that I have got some ulterior motive to take some benefit out of your favor. Therefore you flatter. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.20], the same process is to worship the demigods. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāmais tais tair hṛta jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ.



So here in this material world, either you worship some demigod or worship some leader or worship some friend, the ulterior motive is that you want to get some benefit from him, that's all. Therefore he is priya. But Kṛṣṇa, when you speak of Kṛṣṇa, there is no such business. Just like you love your ātmā very dearly, your life. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa being the ātmeśvaraḥ, the sum total of all ātmā, therefore ultimately Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu is our dear. Not only that; *He is suhṛt. Kṛṣṇa is always thinking. In the Upaniṣad also there is a verse that the Supersoul and the individual soul, they are sitting as friends on this tree, or body. The one is eating the fruits of that tree and the other is witnessing. So what business has God, Kṛṣṇa, to witness your activities? No, He has got business because He wants to take you back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore He is suhṛt. Ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt. Nobody is better friend than Kṛṣṇa, He is always thinking how this bewildered individual soul can be brought back to home, back to Godhead. He personally comes, therefore, canvassing. Sarva*-guhyatamam. "The most confidential part of knowledge I am giving you, Arjuna, that you surrender unto Me. That is better." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66]. He is canvassing door to door. He is coming from Vaikuṇṭha, from Vṛndāvana, to teach us how you can become friend of Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, how you can become mother of Kṛṣṇa, how you can become father of Kṛṣṇa. Here the jñānīs, they try to be equal with Kṛṣṇa, but a devotee can become the father of Kṛṣṇa. What is the value of equality? It is greater than equality. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He accepts His devotee as father and He accepts his punishment also. Just like Kṛṣṇa accepted the punishment of Mother Yaśodā very willfully. He wants that. He likes that. Because everyone goes to God, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, and prays with adoration and respect. But Kṛṣṇa wants that one may think of Him as inferior to him. Just like Nanda Mahārāja was thinking, "He is my child, have to protect." Kṛṣṇa is giving protection to everyone, but Nanda Mahārāja is thinking that "I have to give protection to Kṛṣṇa." This is the devotee's position. So He is so nice friend that whatever enjoyment you want in this material world, that will break. If you have got a son, either the son will leave you or you have to leave your son. But if you accept Kṛṣṇa as your son, this is eternal relationship. You will never be cheated. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as friend, you will never be cheated. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as lover, you will never be confused. So therefore Kṛṣṇa is actually ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt. Prahlāda Mahārāja teaching that, that "Just take to this Bhāgavata-dharma." Actually you want to love Kṛṣṇa, but by the intervening of māyā, you are loving something else. That will not make you happy. You just try to love Kṛṣṇa.



Then in the next verse he says,



sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

*deha*-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ



*That is a regular argument we meet everywhere, that if everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then how this world will go on? How our maintenance will be earned? That answer is given by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that here in this material world, our happiness is in relationship with our senses, sense gratification. Suppose if I put one nice rasagullā, sweetmeat, in my mouth, my tongue tastes it very nicely a kind of sense gratification, so I think I am happy. Similarly, you can study the relationship with all other senses. Especially in this material world our sex sense, the happiness from the sex life is considered to be very high, and people are struggling hard for that happiness. That is also stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Gṛhamedhi means those who are too much attached to this worldly life. Their point of happiness is sex life, maithunādi. But it is tuccham, it is very insignificant.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that even we accept that is happiness in relation to your senses, sense enjoyment, sukham aindriyakam... Aindriyakam means in relationship with the senses. He says, sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā. He is addressing his friends as daityā because they are born of atheistic family. Daitya and deva. Deva means born of Vaiṣṇava family, and daitya means born of demon family. So he is particularly addressing daitya. He is teaching among the daityas because preaching is required among the daityas. Those who are devas, they know; *they do not require any preaching. They know that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. The ultimate, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam, they know it. But the daityas who do not know it, their preaching is required. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is instructing, "My dear daityas, my dear daitya friends," that "you are busy after the sense gratification. That has become your only business, how to gratify the senses." Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha*-yogena dehinām. Deha-yogena. So that your happiness has already been fixed up on the creation of your particular type of body. Just like a man is born or a dog is born. So according to the dog's body, he will have particular type of sense enjoyment. If one has got the hog's body, so according to that body, he will be inclined to eat stool. If you offer a hog one side stool and one side halavā, he will prefer to take the stool, not this halavā, because his body has been made for that type of happiness. Just try to understand; *it is very scientific. The standard of happiness is according to the body you have got. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this sense gratification process is already fixed up. You cannot increase it or decrease it. That is stated here. Sarvatra labhyate daivād. Daivāt means by the arrangement of the Supreme. That is arranged. Sarvatra labhyate, sense gratification. Now take for example the hog. He is also busy in sense gratification. He is eating stool and becoming fatty, and as soon as there is sex desire, without any discrimination he enjoys many she*-hogs, never mind sister or mother. Because the life is so made that he will enjoy in this way.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that according to the body, your happiness and distress or enjoyment. We do not know what is our happiness. According to body, I think this is the standard of happiness. Somebody thinks that "By eating such*-and-such thing, I will be happy," just like the hog. And somebody thinks "No, this is not." One man's food, another man's poison. So everything is food and everything is poison according to the body. One thing is poison for me, but the same poison is food for others. That is for enjoyment. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that don't bother about that thing to satisfy your senses; *that is already fixed up according to your body. Instead of wasting your energy in that way for so*-called happiness, you just try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what is Bhāgavata-dharma. Just engage your energy. It is very nice instruction. People are busy all over the world for having a certain type of sense gratification. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't bother yourself for that. It is already there; you will get it."



In another instruction by Nārada, he says,



tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

*kālena sarvatra gabhīra*-raṁhasā

[SB 1.5.18]



*That tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido. Our endeavor, our energy, should be used solely and wholly for understanding what is Bhāgavata*-dharma, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for anything else. It may be very revolutionary, but this is a fact. You cannot gain anything more than what you are destined, suffering and enjoyment. Tasyaiva. But you can try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That independence has been given to you. You can make your choice. Just like Kṛṣṇa asking Arjuna, yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. "My dear Arjuna, now I have given you instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Now whatever you like you can do." That independence is given to us. We may accept Kṛṣṇa or we may reject Kṛṣṇa. That independence is there. But actually our business should be to accept Kṛṣṇa, not reject Kṛṣṇa. That will make us happy.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction is very nice. We shall talk more next day. Now thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





711113LE.DEL



Pandal Lecture

-

Delhi, November 13, 1971



Prabhupāda: Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly coming here and participating in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I may inform our friends that His Excellency Mr. Jain is a devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. I was talking with him. So we are so pleased that you are associating with devotees.



*'sādhu*-saṅga', 'sādhu-saṅga'-sarva-śāstre kaya

*lava*-mātra sādhu saṅge sarva siddhi haya

[Cc. Madhya 22.54]



*The human life is meant for composing an association where devotees may take part, sādhu*-saṅga. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes [SB 5.5.2]. Mahat-seva. Mahat means whose mind has been broadened, not crippled. Cripple-minded man thinks in terms of personal interest or society's interest or community's interest, nation's interest, or international interest. Even international interest is cripple-minded, because there are many planets. If we expand ourself from self-interest to family interest, from family interest to community interest, similarly, even you expand to the international interest, it is imperfect unless your interest is expanded up to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the Vedic injunction in the Ṛg Veda, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are advanced in knowledge, their aim is, their interest is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. But people do not know what is his self-interest. That is indicated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. Everyone should be self-interest. But in this material world, being illusioned, being bewildered by the material energy, we are thinking our self-interest in terms of our particular type of education. Somebody is thinking that "Simply I have to maintain my body somehow or other." Little expanded, thinking interest of society, you go on. But they do not know that the self-interest must expand to Lord Viṣṇu. And that is explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja.



We are discussing this verse, that



yathā hi puruṣasya iha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt



*Priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt, viṣṇoḥ, viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam. Our self*-interest must reach up to the lotus feet of Lord Viṣṇu. That is perfection. Otherwise whatever interest we create, that is temporary interest and it will be finished and I shall create another interest. That knowledge is lacking in the modern civilization. We are interested in nationalism. That is very good. But we do not know what nationalism was in my past life and what nationalism will be there in my next life. That we do not. Therefore, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that interest should be to the lotus feet of Lord Viṣṇu as it is indicated, directed by the Vedas, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. Unfortunately, somehow or other we have forgotten that interest. That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, anādi bahir-mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva māyā tāra golay badhila(?). We do not know when we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, our self-interest. And because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, therefore māyā, the illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa, has caught up us. Ataeva māyā tāra golay badhila(?).



*So you are existing in this conditioned state of life fully under the control of māyā. Bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā, that is stated in the Śrīmad... Bhagavad-gītā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe.



*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*Just try to understand. We are given a kind of machine, yantra, this body, a particular type of machine. Actually it is machine. It is a physiological machine. But the machine has developed by māyā prakṛti because I wanted it. Bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. Īśvaraḥ, the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His Paramātmā feature, antaryāmī, He is situated in everyone's heart in my heart, in dog's heart, in demigod's heart, everyone. Not only in the heart of the living entity, but He is within the atom. That information we get from the Brahma-saṁhitā,



*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac chaktir asti jagad*-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.35]



*Eko 'py asau racayitum. One partial expansion of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Govinda. The prime factor is Govinda. So in order to create this material world, He has expanded Himself by His one portion, which is known as Viṣṇu*-tattva, Mahā-Viṣṇu. The Mahā-Viṣṇu is described,



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*We are getting this information from Lord Brahmā, the creator of this particular universe, very authoritative statement by his realization. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning, the description of the Lord is given, janmādy asya yataḥ, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye [SB 1.1.1]. So, first of all He gave instruction, the Lord, janmādy asya yataḥ, from whom everything is emanating. Lord Brahmā is also emanating from Him. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. So how Lord Brahmā got Vedic instruction? That is answered, hṛdā. Hṛdā means through the heart. So the Lord is situated in everyone's heart*-in the heart of the Brahmā or in the heart of the ant. Not only in the heart but also within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Paramāṇu means atom. So we do not know how many paramāṇus, atoms, are there. That is impossible to count. Even if you are able to count how many paramāṇus or atoms are there, still you cannot know what is the limit of God's expansions and qualities. So that God, Kṛṣṇa, is Vāsudeva, all-expansive. So He is sitting in everyone's heart and He is giving opportunity, everyone, whatever he wants to do. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He is situated there, and He is so kind that the living entity, whatever he is wanting, the Lord is giving him. So this body is also given by God. It is made by the material nature, but it is given by God. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni. Just like we take a vehicle and travel. Similarly, we are wanting to do something, it doesn't matter what, and Kṛṣṇa as Supersoul, who is sitting within my heart, He is asking this material nature that "You give him such-and-such body so that he can enjoy whatever he likes." So therefore we are getting different types of body, and there are 8,400,000 species of life.



So this body, if you like, you can get the body of a human being, or you can get the body of a tiger, or you can get the body of demigod, or you can get the body of Lord Brahmā, or you can get the body of the microbic germ in the stool. This will depend on your work. This is going on. There are innumerable planets, there are innumerable universes, and the living entities are all innumerable, and they are getting innumerable types of bodies, and every account is kept. Now just imagine what is the government of Kṛṣṇa. And this is being managed, ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. This whole worldly affair is being managed by one Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. This information we get from the śāstras.



*So our position at the present moment is we are desiring something. We know, every one of us know we have got different desires. Not that everyone has got the same desire. Why you have got different desires? And that different desires means different consciousness. That is also described in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

*ekeha kuru*-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

[Bg. 2.41]



*Those who are not fixed up, they have got different desires. And because they have got different desires, they are getting different types of body. And because they are getting different types of body, they are rolling on, wandering in different situation, in different planets. But one who has come to the right conclusion of life, he is called vyavasāyātmikā buddhir eka. Eka means that Lord Viṣṇu. When our desire will becomes fixed up in Lord Viṣṇu, then our life is perfect. But that we do not know. Therefore, bahu-śākhā anantāś ca buddhi avyavasāyinām. Because our mind, because our desire, is not fixed up in Lord Viṣṇu, we are manufacturing different desires, because mind's business is concoction, accepting something, rejecting something. This is going on. But by intelligence we come to a certain conclusion. So one who is above the activities of the mind, manaso parā buddhi, one who has learned how to use his intelligence, that art is called buddhi*-yogam. Yoga on the platform of intelligence. First of all in the beginning, our platform is sensuous. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur [Bg. 3.42]. Material life means sensuous life. But those who are little above, they are on the mental platform-poetry, philosophy, mental speculation. Above this there is intelligence. That intellectual life required. That means we have to transcend the position of the sensuous life, we have to transcend the position of concocted mental speculation, we have to come to the intellectual platform. That intellectual platform is called brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he approached Lord Caitanya, he very intellectually asked Lord Caitanya, 'ke āmi' kene more jāpe tāpa-traya: "Who am I? Why I am suffering these three kinds of material miserable condition of life?" This is intellectual platform. This is intellectual path. And when we exercise this intellectual path of our life, that is called buddhi-yogam. Buddhi-yogam. Therefore, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. The most intellectual person can become Kṛṣṇa conscious, not ordinary man. Why? Kṛṣṇa also confirms this in the Bhagavad-gītā,



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*He is most intellectual, mahātmā, whose intelligence has been broadened so that he has understood Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, as everything. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ. Very rare.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, although it appears to be very easy, but it is actually it is very difficult. But by the mercy of Lord Caitanya, it has been made easy. Otherwise it is not very easy. It is made easy in this way, that Kṛṣṇa says,



bahūnāṁ janmanām ant

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ



Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. The thing which is achieved after many, many births of intellectual activities, Lord Caitanya says, "Now this is the point. You catch up this." Kṛṣṇa also says, "You catch up this. Why should you wait for many, many births?" If it is a fact that after many, many births of intellectual exercises you have come to the point of surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says the most confidential part of knowledge is that "You surrender immediately unto Me."



*So those who are actually intelligent, they take this opportunity and surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy if one accepts easily, but it is very difficult if one does not accept it easily. Otherwise it is very easy. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing that "You surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. That is Kṛṣṇa is giving us the intelligence, buddhi-yogam. And if you surrender, then Kṛṣṇa says, assures,



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*Teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānām. Satata means twenty-four hours. Not that I meditate for fifteen minutes and do all nonsense twenty-four hours. No. Satata-yuktānām. One should be engaged twenty-four hours in the business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is possible. It is not that it is impossible. You can engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness twenty-four hours without any cessation, but you have to know how to do it. That is being taught in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But you can do it. And as soon as you take to it, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Kṛṣṇa should be worshiped with prīti, love, not officially. Of course, in the beginning, we have to be officially. In the beginning, we have to act by the direction of the spiritual master, by the direction of the śāstras. But when you practice it by the direction of guru and śāstra, sādhu guru śāstra vā, then gradually you become attached to it.



*As I have explained several times, this attachment stage can be achieved under certain process. As Bhagavad*-gītā, Bhagavān, says,



*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*Kṛṣṇa is teaching how you can develop your attachment for Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā. We have to take it. We have to understand it. So as soon as we develop this attachment, teṣāṁ satata-yuk... Attachment means just like you have got a lover or something lovable object; *you cannot live without it. You are always searching, "Where is my lovable object? Where is my..." That is called attachment. That attachment as taught by Lord Caitanya, He says, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda*-viraheṇa me. This is the final stage of attachment. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching us that "I am feeling everything vacant." Why? "Being separated from Govinda." Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. This is the highest stage of attachment. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people how to become attached to Kṛṣṇa instead of māyā. We are attached to māyā. We have created so many things just arrangement for forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Anything we make here for sense enjoyment... (end)





711114LE.DEL



Pandal Lecture

-

November 14, 1971, Delhi



*Prabhupāda: (prema*-dvani prayers) Mr. Justice Rangarajan, Justice Misra and Lalaji, ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Today, this evening, we are especially enlightened by the nice speech delivered by Justice Rangarajan, little describing about bhakti-yoga. Actually, we are discussing this bhakti-yoga for the last few days.

*So bhakti*-yoga is the sublime religious principle of the human society. The human society is not human society without sense of religious principle. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the distinction of human society and animal. In the animal society, there is no religion. But in the human society, may be in any part of the world, there is some concept of religion, may be Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, Buddha's religion, Jewish religion, and so many others. But according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is a test of religion. The test of religion is how much one has advanced in his love for God.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



Religion means you must have peace of mind, tranquillity. That is religion. It is not a formality or dogmas. It is the ultimate goal of life.

*So this Bhāgavata*-dharma long, long ago was sometimes discussed by Prahlāda Mahārāja, a great devotee, a boy devotee, 5 years old boy, and he was a great devotee although born in an atheistic family. His father was a great atheist, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇya means gold and kaśipu means soft cushion. That means complete materialist. The materialist want these two things, woman and money. So Hiraṇyakaśipu was very expert in this business. But fortunately he had a great son, Prahlāda Mahārāja. So this Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was in the womb of his mother, he had the chance of hearing about Bhāgavata-dharma from Nāradaji. You have heard that there is always fight between the atheist and the theist, or the demigods and the demons, sura asura. So sometimes there was a fight between the asuras and the devas. The asuras became defeated, and Hiraṇyakaśipu left the battle. So as it sometimes appears..., happens in the war, the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu was captured by the demigods, and she was being taken away although she was pregnant. So Nārada Muni met on the way and he asked the demigods, "Oh, what you are doing this? You are taking away one pregnant woman? What is this?" So Indra replied that "We are not going to do any harm to the woman. But we are concerned with the child within his womb. Because that child is born of Hiraṇyakaśipu, he must be a greater demon. So as soon as the child is born, we shall kill it. Therefore, we are taking this woman." Then Nāradajī said that "This child is not an ordinary child. He is mahā-bhāgavata. So you do not try this attempt. Just release her. I will take her."

*So Nāradajī is authority, so demigods accepted his advice, Vaiṣṇava. The demigods are also Vaiṣṇava. Demigods means there are two kinds of population all over the universe, daiva asura eva ca. One class is called daiva, devata, and the other class is called asura. So who is asura and who is a deva? Viṣṇu*-bhakta bhaved daiva asuras tad viparyayaḥ). That is the definition who is the asura and who is a deva. Only the Vaiṣṇava, they are demigods. And who are not Vaiṣṇava or anything else, tad viparyayaḥ, he is a demon. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, asuri bhāvam āśritāḥ.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*The asuri bhāva is defy the existence of God. "Who is God? I am God." Hiraṇyakaśipu was a typical example of this demon. As soon as his son, five years old, he would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he immediately object, "Why you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" So that is the nature of the demon, to protest always against the theist or godly Vaiṣṇavas. This is not new. It is always there. This world is so made that the predominance of demonic principle is very much aggressed(?). Just see, even a father, a demon father could not tolerate the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra by his five*-years-old son.

Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*There will be disturbances. One who is going to engage himself in devotional service, he may be disturbed because that is the way of this material world. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that tolerate. How toleration? Tṛṇād api sunīcena, humbler than the straw on the street or grass. Everyone is walking over the grass, but it does not protest. Tolerates. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇuna. Prahlāda Mahārāja was typical example of this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's śikṣā. This Hiraṇyakaśipu father tortured Prahlāda Mahārāja in so many ways, but he tolerated. He tolerated. There are many other examples. Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified. The only fault was that he was preaching God consciousness. Ṭhākura Haridāsa, he was Muhammadan, but he took to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and the Kazi... At that time, there was Muhammadan government. The Kazi called him, "Oh, you are so fortunate, you have taken your birth in Muhammadan family and you are chanting Hindu God's name?" So he replied, "Sir, what is the fault there? Some of the Hindus also take to Muhammadan religion. So what is the fault there?" "Oh, you are talking before me, you are protesting?" So he was flogged with cane in twenty*-two bazaar, but he tolerated. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, don't think it is going very easily. We have to tolerate. Actually we are tolerating so many things, but we cannot stop it.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advice,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



*The saṅkīrtana movement must go on. Despite all obstacles put before us, it must go on. That is determination. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ. That is the instruction of Lord Sri Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ, unflinching faith. And the Vedas say,

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

[ŚU 6.23]



Through bhakti you can understand *Vedas*. Yasya deve parā bhaktir, bhakti, yathā deve tathā gurau. Sri Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said the same thing:

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva. This bhakti cult is not for everyone. It is meant for the most fortunate person, most intelligent person, bhakti cult. Kṛṣṇa said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So after many, many births cultivating knowledge, when it comes to the supreme platform, then he can understand bhakti. Then he surrenders himself unto the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja says..., this is the instruction of bhakti*-yoga, I shall read a few lines.

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



yathā hi puruṣasyeha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam

*yad eṣa sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt



sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

*deha*-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ



*Prahlāda Mahārāja, he could not get to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he was born in atheist family, guarded, well guarded, and father was always alert that "My son may not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." But he was taking opportunity in the school. So he was five*-years-old boy, and his class fellows also of the same age. So he used to induce them, "My dear friends, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." We have got a little girl, perhaps you have all seen, Sarasvatī, she was admitted in a school in Bombay. And because there was no Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting, she began to cry, "No, I shall not be in this school." Practical. There was (indistinct), she was organizing all the children to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they began something else, so she said, "No, I am not going to this school." So śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. This child must be executing devotional service in her past life. Therefore, she has got the opportunity, a Vaiṣṇava father and Vaiṣṇavī mother. And from the very beginning of her life she is becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is advising his friends, "My dear friends." The friends were replying, "Now we are children, we shall play. Why you are asking us the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This is the business of the old men." "No," Prahlāda Mahārāja said. "No, it is not the business of the old men. You should learn it from the very childhood." Kaumāram. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. The first thing is that human life is for cultivating dharma, religion. The other day I explained that dharma and religion is not the exactly synonymous. Dharma means which you cannot leave. Dharma, the example I gave the other day, just like sugar cannot give up the quality of sweetness. Similarly, the water cannot give up the quality of liquidity. The fire cannot give up the quality of heat and light. Similarly, every living entity has his original characteristic, which is called dharma. That characteristic is described by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya*-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is the characteristic. Svarūpa. Svarūpa means original constitutional position. That is called svarūpa. And mukti means to be situated in that original condition. That is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. That is mukti. As soon as you give up your artificial way of life and you become situated in your original position, that is called mukti. That is... In other words, mukti means brahma-bhūtaḥ. That is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātma [Bg. 18.54]. When one realizes Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. At the present moment, we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. We are identifying ourself with matter, with this body: "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am black," "I am white." These are all designations. This is not my real identity. My real identity is ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul."

*So Bhagavad*-gītā says that

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Without being brahma*-bhūtaḥ, actual devotional life does not begin. It is not that by devotional service one... Of course, you can take both way. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, it is to be understood that anyone who has taken to this devotional service, he is already in the stage of brahma-bhūtaḥ.

māṁ ca (yo) 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*Mukti means to become transcendental to the three guṇas. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. So Bhāgavata-dharma is in the transcendental platform. It is not material. There are two kinds of dharmas: material and spiritual, because we are combination of matter and spirit at the present moment. So long I want to enjoy this material world or to satisfy my senses... This material body means combination of senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. So the platform where we are concerned with the senses, that is called karma, karma platform. Just like people are working very hard day and night in the city. The purpose is to gratify the senses. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So that is karma. Then, indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ [Bg. 3.42]. When you come to the activities of the mind-psychology, metaphysics, philosophical speculation*-that is another stage; *that is better than this stage, karmī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has approved that out of many thousands of karmīs, one jñānī is better. And out of many thousands of jñānīs, one mukta is better, liberated. One who has realized that "I am not this matter, I am Brahman," he is better. He is mukta. Mukta means one... Brahma*-bhūtaḥ, he understands. He no more identifies himself with these material activities. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu approves that out of many thousands of karmīs, one jñānī is better. And out of many thousands of jñānīs, one mukta is better. And out of many thousands of mukta, hardly you can find any bhakta.

*Bhakta... So the position of bhakta is very sublime. This is transcendental position, brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, this mukti is given very easily by introducing the saṅkīrtana movement. He personally writes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He wrote only eight verses, which is known as Śikṣāṣtaka, eight verses. And all the Gosvāmīs, they wrote volumes of books on these eight verses. He wrote only eight verses. So He says that by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the first benefit will be ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is cultivation of knowledge. It will automatically come, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, if one chants offenselessly. There are ten kinds of offenses. If one chants this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra offenselessly, then immediately he becomes liberated. Nāmābhāsa, mukti. And when he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in ecstasy, then he is in deep love of God. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He showed the example, He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and was fainting, and He was crying. And He writes in His eight ślokas,

yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa

cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam

śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ

*govinda*-viraheṇa me



He was feeling separation of Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, so intensely that He was thinking one moment as twelve years. yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam. So these are mahābhāva. Great transcendental ecstasy can be achieved simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

*So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra or bhakti*-yoga Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends. Kaumāra ācaret. Kaumāra means the age from five years to fifteen years. So in all schools and colleges this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra should be taught. If you actually want to advance your nationality, India, then you must take to this culture. That will glorify your country. You cannot compete the Westerners by technology. That is not possible. They are meant for that purpose. You are meant for different purpose. Your special advantage is that you were born in this land of Bhārata-varṣa after many, many births, after many, many pious activities. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore, says,

*bhārata*-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*So still, although India is poverty*-stricken, they say... Wherever I go, they take that I am coming from a very poor country. We are advertised in that way, because whenever our big men go there, ministers, for begging something. So we have been taken, accepted as the beggar's country. But in the Berkeley University, when one Indian student protested that I am spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement... The only protest was by an Indian student. He said, "Swamiji, what benefit will be there by spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?" In another place, a girl asked me, "Swamiji, what is God?" So I asked her, "Are you Indian? You should be ashamed of being called as Indian, because you are asking what is God. You are coming from India, the land of God, and you do not know what is God."

*So this is our position. The land where Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, just ninety miles from Delhi in Vṛndāvana*-Mathurā, we are not concerned. I have seen it personally. I do not discuss...I do not want to discuss these things. But my point is that this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction,

*bhārata*-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This Bhāgavata*-dharma should be taught to our children. There is no use of calling ourself that we are secular. What does it mean? Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If you have no dharma, then what is the difference between you and the animal? You must have. That is the advice of Prahlāda Mahārāja also. Prahlāda Mahārāja appeared some millions of years ago, and he was a five-years-old boy, Vaiṣṇava. He says, kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. Prājñaḥ means one who knows very perfectly things, prājñaḥ. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. There are different types of dharma, but he specifically mentioned dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Iha means in this life, in his human form of life. Why in this life? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. This life, this human form of life, is very difficult to obtain again. You do not know what life you are going to accept next. There is no certainty, because when you die, then you cannot be puffed up that "I don't care for God, I am God." Then you are under the grip of the material nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*Then you cannot... You are caught up. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Then it will be just what kind of body you should have. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], under superior administration. Just like in the government service there is service record. And according to the service record, one is promoted or degraded. Similarly, there is record in the God's accountant department, statistic department. Every moment, upadraṣṭā anumantā, God is within you, He is seeing all your activities. If you desire something, God will remind you. So that is good record. So all this record will be considered about your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye. It will be decided that "This particular or this individual soul, he has to accept such-and-such body." Daiva-netreṇa jantur. Then that soul is transferred to the father's semina, and the father injects the semina in the womb of the woman. And then in the first night, by emulsification of the two seminas, there is a form like a pea, and that pea grows into the body. This is the secret of different types of body.

*So we do not know, we are not certain that what kind of body I am going to get next, but we will have one body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. As I am getting one type of body from another type... In my this life, I was a child, I was a baby, I was a boy, I was a young man, now I am old man. As I am changing my body differently*-I was a small child, I can remember personally. When I was about 6 months old, I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister. She was at that time married, and she was knitting. I remember. I was seeing how she was knitting. I can remember. But where is that body? Then another body, another body, another body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Similarly, when I give up this body, then I must accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But that I do not know. That will be considered by higher authorities, daiva-netreṇa, exactly as I told you that the service record is checked by higher authorities and he is promoted. So how one can know where one has gone? We keep one man's statue, but we do not know where the man has gone, where the soul has gone. But we keep the statue as if he is staying there. This is called illusion. We do not know where my leader has gone, but I am worshiping the leader's statue on the street, and it has become the place for passing stool on his head by the crows, and we are worshiping. But when you go to worship in the temple, it is idol worship. We are worshiping the statues, but when you go to worship in the temple, "That is idol worship."

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja, therefore, advises that this Bhāgavata*-dharma education must be given from the childhood. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. Because durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. But if you take to this Bhāgavata-dharma, then there is no loss, there is no loss. Because Kṛṣṇa says that even if you cannot execute the Bhāgavata-dharma fully in one life, because we are not guaranteed... Guaranteed, of course, if we follow strictly as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa-how He appears, how He takes birth, how He disappears, why does He come, what are His activities-if you simply study these Kṛṣṇa activities, then the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. This is Bhāgavata-dharma. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, being compassionate to the all fallen conditions of this age, He said that

*yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*He says that "On My order, every one of you, especially Indians, you become a guru on My order." So "I am a fool, how can I become a guru?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu says āmāra ājñāya, "You simply carry out My order." There is no difficulty to become a guru if you simply carry out without any adulteration the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What is that order? That is not very difficult. Because He says yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Anyone you meet, you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That is Bhāgavata-dharma. What Kṛṣṇa has said. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Mad-yājī, mad-bhakta. So Kṛṣṇa says... This is kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. He has given upadeśa in the Bhagavad-gītā in many ways-karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga. But His special instruction is, the most confidential instruction is, He said to Arjuna, "Because you are My friend, therefore I am giving you this most confidential instruction." What is that? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the confidential instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So it is not difficult. You haven't got to manufacture a religion. Because you cannot manufacture religion. That is not possible. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like the state can give you law; *you cannot manufacture law. Similarly, any ordinary man, he cannot manufacture religion. Religion means the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is religion. So this religion, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], directly spoken by the Supreme Lord. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also does not give any manufactured religion. This Caitanya cult is not a manufactured religion. It is also following. This is the process of religion. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. We have to get the religious principle by the disciplic succession, not that I become an authority automatically and I manufacture religion. That is not religion. So Sri Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised that "Simply instruct what Kṛṣṇa has said." Kṛṣṇa has also said the same thing, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati [Bg 18.68]. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ [Bg. 18.69]. "Anyone who is engaged in preaching the cult of Bhagavad-gītā, no one is dearer to Me than he." [break] ...in preaching... [break] That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult. He says, marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanān: "You just break My heart by not being visible." The Vaiṣṇava devotees, they are not very much anxious to see God. They know, "Why God shall come to me? He is so busy, He has got so many business. Let me do my duty." The Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana... Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, as I repeated the śloka, govinda-viraheṇa me. He was simply feeling separation. He never said that "I have seen God." He never said. Similarly, Gosvāmīs, the ṣaḍ-gosvāmīs, they are also following the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ. Simply searching out, "Where Rādhārāṇī? Where You are? Where the Lalitā, Viśakha, where you are? Where is Nanda-sūna, the son of Mahārāja Nanda, Kṛṣṇa? Where You are all?" Śrī-govardhana-(kalpa)-pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ. "Are you near Govardhana Hill or on the bank of Yamunā?" But they never said, "I have seen Kṛṣṇa." They never said. Not that, "Oh, last night I saw, Kṛṣṇa was dancing." Not cheap devotee. Be great, follow. Just like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says,

ei chaya gosāñi yāra, mui tāra dāsa

*tāṅ' sabāra pada*-reṇu mora pañca-grāsa



Another place he says,

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade ha-ibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhaba se yugala*-pīriti



These Gosvāmīs, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, liberated devotee, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they teach us how to worship Kṛṣṇa in separation, feelings of separation.

*he rādhe vraja*-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ

*śrī*-govardhana-(kalpa)-pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ

*ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja*-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau



*Just like mad after God, "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" This is called Bhāgavata*-dharma.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



711120LE.DEL

Pandal Lecture

-

Delhi, November 20, 1971



*Prabhupāda: This flower is made by Kṛṣṇa, so beautiful, so aromatic, let me offer it to Kṛṣṇa. The same flower, you can become sensuous, and you can give service to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is nothing to be invented. Everything is there. Simply you have to change your consciousness. If you do not do that, then it is maya. Then Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa has given you all facilities. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61], He is there within your heart. He knows what is your purpose of life. You cannot hide from Kṛṣṇa anything you desire. If you desire Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa gives you intelligence, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. "Yes, take this intelligence, you will come to Me." Yena mām upayānti. But if you desire to enjoy this material world, then He will give you facility, different types of body. If you think that "I shall eat fresh flesh and fresh blood," "All right, you become a tiger. Why you are desiring? I give you all facility. You have got nails and teeth, and you just enjoy." Kṛṣṇa gives you that enjoyment. If you don't discriminate what is your food, whatever you like you eat, all nonsense, "All right, you become a hog. Eat up to the stool." And the stool... The body is made so that the hog will like to eat stool. That is said by Prahlāda Mahārāja, deha-yogena dehinām. The material enjoyment is given facility by Kṛṣṇa by a particular type of body. Deha-yogena dehinām. So this is going on.



Now here is the chance, that human form of body. Now you have got discrimination, you can understand because your consciousness is advanced. Now you can make your choice whether you want to continue this repeated birth and death in different species of life or you want to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your discretion. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says,



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



Very nice instruction. "My dear friends," durlabham, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma, "this human form of body is very, very rare to achieve. Now we have got it. Therefore, let us begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness from very childhood." That is the Vedic system. From the very childhood, a brahmacārī is given Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that in future his life becomes perfect. What is that perfect? He knows Kṛṣṇa by Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. And what is the result? If one knows Kṛṣṇa perfectly, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], then after giving up this body, he does not come again back to take another material body, and he goes back to home.



mām upetya (tu) kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific, based on Vedic knowledge. And it is so perfect that we are actually seeing that anyone who is taking this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is feeling how happy he is. I am getting thousands of letter from Western countries, from my disciples, how much transcendental feeling they are enjoying. So I do not wish to take much of your time. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be injected from the very beginning of life, from childhood. So here our Honorable High Commissioner of Canada is present, His Excellency. So I request that you have come to our country, please try to understand this philosophy. And so far I have traveled in your country... I have traveled in Canada also; *as you have already mentioned, we have got five branches*-in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Hamilton, and Ottawa. So the boys are struggling, they are distributing literature, the books, and I am getting very encouraging report, many young men they are coming. It is a very scientific movement. So I would request you to inform your government to give these boys who are struggling to inject this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in your country all facility. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)



*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*Govinda, the Lord. Go means the cow, and go means the senses, and go means the land. So Kṛṣṇa, the reservoir of all pleasure, especially gives pleasure to the senses. Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So our senses are there. You cannot stop the activities of the senses. Yoga indriya saṁyama. The purpose of yoga is to control the senses by observing the regulative principle, yama-niyama, then practicing a particular type of sitting posture. It is somehow or other mechanical, because those who are grossly in the concept of body, they are recommended to practice this haṭha-yoga so that by this process his mind can be concentrated on Kṛṣṇa. Yoga indriya saṁyama.



*So actually our indriyas can be controlled when they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Otherwise it is not possible to control the senses. You cannot stop the activities of senses. That is not possible. Because we are living entity, we have our senses, and it must act. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that you cannot stop the action of the mind even for a moment. And mind is the central point of our sensuous activities. Therefore, if you want to control the senses, then you have to learn this bhāgavata-dharma. Prahlāda Mahārāja therefore recommending, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very childhood one should practice this bhāgavata-dharma. This bhāgavata-dharma means śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. They have manufactured many other kīrtana parties, but the śāstra says śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. That is bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata comes from the word bhagavān. Bhaga means opulence, and vān means one who possesses. That is bhagavān. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Bhagavan. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The Absolute Truth is realized in three features-Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān. Bhagavān understanding is the last word in the understanding of the Absolute Truth, because bhaga means opulence. There are six kinds of opulences-wealth, strength, reputation, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation. If somebody is very rich, he is attractive. Everyone goes to this man. Sometimes we also go to rich man, "Sir, give us some money," because a rich man is attractive. But in this material world, nobody can claim that he has got all the riches. Nobody can claim. But Kṛṣṇa can claim. Kṛṣṇa says,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*Now, He is the enjoyer of all sacrifices. Now, try to understand that in this material world, there are millions and trillions of universes, and each universe there are millions and trillions of planets. And each planet, there are millions and trillions of living entities. Now if not all, some of them are offering sacrifices, at least the sober section, in all the universes, and Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ. Just imagine how much He is eating. And similarly, He is the proprietor. He says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29], "I am the proprietor of all the planets," sarva-loka. Not only in this universe, but also there are millions and trillions of universes. If we have to accept the verdict of the śāstra, the Brahma-saṁhitā says yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. In each universe, there are ananta, unlimited number of planets. So Kṛṣṇa claims that sarva-loka-maheśvaram, "I am the proprietor of all the planets." Then who can compare his riches with Kṛṣṇa? You can find out some rich man in this world, but they might have a several hundreds of factories or several hundreds of houses, but nobody can claim that "I am the proprietor of all the houses and all the factories on all the planets." That is not possible. That is being claimed by Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. We are establishing many humanitarian activities. Just like the other day our chief guest, Dr. Atmaram, was speaking that by scientific advancement we are trying to give food to the needy and cloth to the naked. That's all right. But Kṛṣṇa is feeding unlimited number of living entities, beginning from the elephant down to the ant. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. He is friend of everyone. As friend, He is sitting in the heart of all living entities. He is sitting in your heart, He is sitting in my heart, He is sitting in the ant's heart. The ant has also heart and the elephant has got also heart. Sometimes we find an insect exactly like a full stop. You have got experience. Sometimes when you open your book you find. They are called bookworm, they're very small, but it is moving. And because it is moving, from biological study we must conclude that it has got a heart. Even we do not know about biology, but Kṛṣṇa said that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So, therefore, there must be some heart. We cannot perceive. We cannot see even the whole figure of that insect, and what to speak of study what kind of heart it has got. But we understand Bhagavad-gītā..., from Bhagavad-gītā that there is heart even in the smallest insect, in the microscopic germ, there is heart. So He is sitting in everyone's heart and He is supplying the necessities of that smaller creature or the biggest creature. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29].



So when we understand Kṛṣṇa in that way, that is understanding tattvataḥ.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*If we understand Kṛṣṇa superficially, that is not tattvic understanding. The tattvic understanding are in truth. You can get information from the Vedas what is Kṛṣṇa, or from Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is the cream of all Vedas. Sarvopaniṣada gāva. Vedas, and the topmost part of Veda are the Upaniṣads. There are a hundred eight Upaniṣads, of which Īśopaniṣad is the topmost. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. So we have to understand Kṛṣṇa from this Vedic literature, tat vijñāna(?). And to understand the Vedic literature, we have to approach a person who has actually assimilated the purpose of Vedas. Kṛṣṇa also said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. The purpose of studying Vedas is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Or in other words, if anyone has understood Kṛṣṇa, he has studied all the Vedas.



*So this analytical study of Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, is called bhāgavata*-dharma because bhāgavata..., bhāgavata śabda. And from bhagavata, bhāgavata [long "a"]. Bhābat(?). So bhāgavata-dharma means to understand Kṛṣṇa. So Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that from the very childhood,



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*These instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja is very important, very important, and we are trying to spread this bhāgavata*-dharma all over the world. And people are very happy to receive it. Unfortunately, this bhāgavata-dharma was not explained in the Western countries. I do not wish to discuss, but at the present moment, because this bhāgavata-dharma as recommended by Prahlāda Mahārāja is being preached all over the world, they are appreciating very much the glories of India. So as recommended by Prahlāda Mahārāja, this study of Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa should be introduced in the schools and colleges. I wanted to speak to the Vice Chancellor, and I expected him today, but he did not come. This is our unfortunate. I do not know why he avoided, but never mind; you try to understand. Don't spoil your children. The modern educational system without any knowledge of Bhagavān, I may tell you frankly, not only in India, everywhere, they are practically slaughterhouse. Because in our country, it is a different thing; *at least we have got the Vedic culture at home if it is not in the schools. But in other countries, because there is no bhāgavata*-dharma culture, the students, although they are provided with ample opportunity for education, the nicest educational system, nice building, nice facilities, everything nice, unfortunately the products are coming out frustrated, confused young men, and some of them are called hippies. They are educated. They are coming from very nice aristocratic family. In Western countries, in comparison to our country, every home is aristocratic. At least their standard of living is so high. So what we call aristocratic, that is a common affair. So this mishappening is going on all over the Western countries. Some of them are joining us, but this is the problem. The Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. This is very, very important message. We should be careful to educate our sons, our boys, with bhāgavata-dharma from the very beginning of life. That was the Vedic system. Therefore, in the first twenty-five years of life, the children were sent to gurukula for learning this bhāgavata-dharma.



*So the educational system should take very seriously if at all they want to make their country nice, not varṇa*-saṅkaraḥ. Strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkaraḥ bhaviṣyati. This Vedic culture is so scientifically made. Just like according to Vedic culture, the women are instructed or trained up to become very chaste, very chaste. Only one husband. Why? That is explained: strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkaraḥ bhaviṣyati. If women do not remain chaste, then unwanted population will come out. That is called varṇa-saṅkaraḥ. Varṇa-saṅkaraḥ means unwanted population. Actually all over the world this is happening, and therefore, the problems of the world becoming very serious and grave. So these are all scientific proposals. The educational system must be reformed. Not that godless, no education, secular government, no education of God in the schools and colleges. This is not a very good proposal. Here we get authoritative statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the mahājana. Our process is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to follow the footsteps of great personalities. That is our method. We don't manufacture our own way of living. We simply follow the great personalities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. You cannot come to the right conclusion simply by argument. You may be very good arguer; another comes better arguer than you. So simply by argument, you cannot come to the conclusion. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā.



*Now, there are Vedas, four Vedas*-Sāma Veda, Atharva Veda, Yajus Veda, Ṛk Veda. And there are Upaniṣads, the Vedānta-sūtra, the Purāṇas, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata-there are so many things. That is in India. And outside India or outside Vedic culture, there are many scriptures. Therefore it is said, śrutayo vibhinnā. There are innumerable Vedic scriptures. So we cannot come to the conclusion what is right or wrong, because sometimes you will find contradiction from one... Of course, there is no contradiction, but because we are not advanced in knowledge, sometimes we will find contradiction. Just like in India there are two classes of transcendentalists: the impersonalist and the personalist. That is not contradiction. The Absolute Truth is both impersonal and personal, but somebody is stressing on the impersonal point of view and somebody is stressing on the personal point of view. But we Vaiṣṇava, we know what is the meaning of impersonalism and what is the meaning of personalism. We take it for understanding, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The Absolute Truth is simultaneously Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. It is simply different stages of understanding. In the first stage, it is Brahman realization. In the second stage, it is Paramātmā realization. And at the last stage, it is Bhagavān realization.



*So it is a great science. Bhāgavata*-tattva vijñānam. It is not that you can create your Bhagavān by concoction, imagination. Just like the Māyāvādī philosophers say that sādhakānāṁ hitvārthāya brahmaṇo rūpa-kalpanaḥ(?): for the benefit or for the facility of the neophyte progressing in the spiritual knowledge, we have to imagine some form of the Brahman. That is not the fact. We do not find these things in the Vedic literature. We find in the Vedic literature that the Absolute Truth is realized in three features-Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. The substance is one, but according to our capacity, we understand differently. Just like example. If you see a great mountain, say Himalayan Mountain. Just like the other day when I was coming from Calcutta to Delhi, the Himalayan Mountains were seen from the plane, and it appeared just like a great city. But that is my shortage of vision. I cannot see what is Himalaya. Similarly, as we see imperfectly the Himalayan Mountain from a distant place, similarly, when the Absolute Truth is realized by the speculative process, he can simply understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by His effulgence as impersonal. And if you make further progress, then we can see... The same example. We are seeing the Himalayan Mountain from a distant place but if we make further advance, further, nearer, we see different thing. And when actually in the Himalayan Mountain, the thing is altogether different. Similarly, when you understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead from distance... Just like you cannot understand the sun globe from here. Although sunshine is light, sun globe is light, still we cannot understand what is sun globe from distant place.



*So these are the statements in the śāstra about bhāgavata*-dharma. Not that we accept Kṛṣṇa blindly as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a science. Bhāgavata-tattva vijñānam. But this vijñāna, this scientific knowledge, is understandable not by your imperfect speculation. You have to accept the proper method of understanding. That method is called bhakti. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa simply by speculation. That is not possible. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa simply by meditation. That is also not possible. If you actually seriously want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to take the process of bhakti. Jñāna-vairāgya yuktayā [SB 1.2.12]. Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. There is a statement, the Absolute Truth can be understood by bhakti, and that bhakti received through the aural reception of your ear. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that if you want to know a saintly person, you try to understand him by your ear, not by the eyes. You cannot understand a saintly person by staring your eyes, "Let me see what kind of..." No. That is not possible. Therefore śāstra says, bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. You have to understand the Absolute Truth by devotion. At the same time, śruta-gṛhītayā. Śruta means taking information by hearing from the śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭhaṁ guru [MU 1.2.12], by hearing from the right source and with bhakti. Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. This is the process.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā also the same process is recommended.



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Kṛṣṇa does not say that you become a sentimental devotee. These European and American boys, they are dancing not by sentiment. That is actual transcendental ecstasy. Therefore, it is so nice. You cannot expect this dancing from a professional man. That is not possible. Professional man, his aim is money, and their aim is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Therefore, to learn bhakti, the process is śruta*-gṛhītayā. You have to receive the perfect knowledge from the Vedas and understand what is bhakti. Our gosvāmī, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, he says that,



*śruti*-smṛti-purāṇādi-

*pañcarātra*-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

[Brs. 1.2.101]



*One who accept bhakti*-mārga without reference of this śruti and smṛti and pāñcarātrikī-vidhi... Śruti means the Vedas, and smṛti means the Purāṇas or Mahābhārata, Bhagavad-gītā. They are called smṛti. And pāñcarātrikī-vidhi, that is given by Nārada Muni, because he is the great authority in the science of devotional service. Vyāsadeva is his disciple. Prahlāda Mahārāja is his disciple. He has got great, great disciples who are in the bhakti line. And therefore he has given the pāñcarātrikī-vidhi. In the pāñcarātrikī-vidhi, it is said that you have to be free from the designation. Designation. You have to forget yourself that you are Hindu, you are Musselman, you are Sikh or you are Christian. These are all designations. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. You have to purify. Don't be contaminated by any type of religion which is made by man. Real religion is made by God.



*So you try to understand what is God and try to understand what sort of religion he has given. So that you can receive by bhaktyā śruta*-gṛhītayā. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātra-vidhi [Brs. 1.2.101]. Vidhi, a regulative principle. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam, that what are the pāpas, sinful life? The śāstra says, striyaḥ sūnā pāna dyūta yatra pāpaś catur-vidhaḥ [SB 1.17.38]. These four things are the four pillars of sinful life. What are these? Avaida stri-saṅga: womanly connection which is illegitimate. You cannot have any connection with woman without being married. That is Vedic instruction. Otherwise, what is the difference between animal and man? There is no marriage in the animal kingdom. But in the human society, never mind whether it is in India or Russia or China, there is marriage system in the human society, maybe methods may be different. Therefore, womanly connection, man and woman living together without marital connection, that is pāpa, sinful life. That is the injunction of the śāstra. Similarly, striyaḥ sūnā. Sūnā means unnecessarily killing the animals. Just like slaughterhouse. You cannot maintain slaughterhouse in the human society and at the same time you want peace. It is not possible. Every living entity is son of God. You cannot kill even an ant, then you dissatisfy God. Take for example just like a gentleman has got five sons, one of them is useless, doing nothing. But if the expert son says, "My dear father, your this son is useless. Let us kill him and eat," cannibal. Will the father agree, "Oh, yes, yes, this son is useless. You can kill and eat"? Time will come in this Kali-yuga when actually people will become what is called man-eater. Still there are existence man-eaters in Africa. So the human society is coming to that position. Like animal, they will eat their own sons and daughters. So therefore this practice, unnecessarily killing animal, is one of the pillar of sinful life.



*Striyaḥ sūnā pāna dyūta. Pāna means intoxication. We are already intoxicated by illusion. Because we are in the material world, we are accepting false things. Just like this body. I am accepting I am this body. This is intoxication. I am soul, I am Brahman, but I am accepting this body that I am this body. This is already intoxication. And if you increase more intoxication, then where is the possibility of getting real knowledge, brahma*-jñāna? So the pāna, intoxication, should be avoided. Animal killing should be avoided. Illicit connection with woman should be avoided. And gambling, speculation, Patavad(?), that should be eliminated, avoided. Then you get the chance of becoming pure. And without being pure, you cannot be engaged in the loving service of the Lord. The Lord is pure. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So you cannot approach Lord being impure. Even I do not indulge in illicit sex life or meat-eating or very much moralist, still I am impure if I think myself "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." These are also impurities.



*So the bhāgavat*-dharma means to become completely pure. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. And you cannot keep your purity without being in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, so many moralistic movement has failed. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Even one has got brahma-jñāna, even one is elevated to become mixed or amalgamated with the brahmajyoti, still he is not pure. That is the statement of śāstra.



*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas

*tvayy asta*-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

patanty adhaḥ...

[SB 10.2.32]



*They will fall down. We have seen many sannyāsīs, they have given up this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but they are still coming to politics, also to social organization, welfare activity. When you have left this world as nontruth, mithyā, then why do you come again? That means they did not get the real relish of Brahman. That is stated in the śāstra, that vimukta*-māninaḥ: falsely they are thinking that they have become liberated. Otherwise, their intelligence is not purified some way. Somebody is thinking, "I am Indian," somebody is thinking, "I am Hindu," that is impurity. Real purity is tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], "I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am simply Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa is mine, I am Kṛṣṇa's." This is purity, and this is the culture of bhāgavata-dharma.



*So Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending this bhāgavata*-dharma. Kaumāram ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. So this human form of life is meant for cultivating this bhāgavata-dharma. And if you are missing, then we are committing suicide, ātmahā. This very word is used in the śāstra, ātmahā. So our request to everyone is that you try to understand Kṛṣṇa scientifically. Kṛṣṇa-tattva vijñānam. It is not a sentiment or philosophical speculation or fanaticism. It is not that. It is a fact. Now, one should have intelligence to understand, that's all. But the method is so simple that we are fortunate, we accept immediately the version of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66], then our life is successful immediately. If we accept this statement of Kṛṣṇa that "You simply surrender unto Me," and we do it, immediately we become relieved from this material contamination. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. You immediately become pure. And,



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*If you sincerely surrender to Kṛṣṇa, immediately you become immune from all sinful activities. And then as soon as you become free, yeṣāṁ anta*-gataṁ pāpam, then all your pāpas, sinful activities, immediately vanquished, then you become eligible for serving Kṛṣṇa. Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā. The sign is that he has no more duality. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, and he believes that Kṛṣṇa ekam, "Simply by serving Kṛṣṇa I will be successful." That is explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta,



*'śraddhā'-śabde*-viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya

*kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva*-karma kṛta haya

[Cc. Madhya 22.62]



*This is śraddha. This is actually śraddha, faith, not faltering, "I do not know whether Kṛṣṇa will be able to save me. Why shall I surrender to Him? Let me surrender to so many demigods." Kṛṣṇa says those who are thinking like that, they are hrta*-jnanah. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23].



*So our request is that the guardians who are present here in this meeting, they should organize a special school to give lesson to their students, to their boys, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, bhāgavata*-dharma. There is vast knowledge behind this. They will be enlightened. Their life will be successful. So in this city of Delhi, it is a great city and very important city. There are very important men here. They should kindly consider this proposal that there must be a very organized school to understand this bhāgavata-dharma, just to teach their boys, and their life will be successful. It is the duty of the father and mother to see that "My son, this is the last attempt of coming into this material world." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father and the mother to stop the repetition of birth and death of his son. The mother should consider that "My son came to my womb, and he has suffered so much while he was remaining within the womb. Now I shall teach my son in such a way that no more he is going in the womb of a material mother." That is the duty of father, that is the duty of mother, that is the duty of friend, that is the duty of guru. Gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. So save your children from the danger of repetition of birth and death, that is the real discharge of father and mother's duty.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





711213LE.DEL

Lecture

-

Delhi, December 13, 1971



(beginning of tape for many minutes is inaudible)



Devotee: Morning, December 13th, Delhi.



*Prabhupāda: Dharma, I have explained, occupational duty. So long we have got this material body we have got particular type of occupational duty. We are preaching to the world not any occupational duty but we are preaching eternal duty. This occupational duty is in connection with the body. That is not eternal. Suppose this life I've got a body, human body, or brāhmaṇa birth, or a son in the Rockefeller family, and according to that body, I have got a particular type of duty, standard of living. Deha*-yogena dehinām. But as soon as the body's changed, I get another body, the whole duty change. Now I may have a very comfortable body, American body, Rockefeller family body, but next life, according to my karma, we are preparing our next life. Suppose if I get the body of a dog, then my occupational duty will be (indistinct). Because according to the body the duty is changed. So these occupational duties they are not permanent. But I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. By the destruction of this body, I am not destroyed. I remain, I simply enter another body. I, as spiritual soul, I remain. Just like I'm entering different bodies in this life. I was a child, I enter another body. Just like this small child, Sarasvatī. According to the body, she is acting. She's acting sometimes nonsense, but we take it delight, because she is child. But the same nonsense if I do in another body, grown up body, that will be ridiculous. In this child body, she is naked, but people enjoy it. But when she is grown up and she is lady-like, she is young girl, if she becomes naked, oh that is ridiculous. So, here in this life also we see according to the change of the body, the duty is changed. The activities are changing. So, this body is changing, that's a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Just like in this life we are changing different types of bodies, similarly dehāntara-prāptiḥ, another body. These rascals, they do not understand the simple reasoning. Simple logic they cannot understand, still they argue, "What is the proof there is transmigration of the soul?" Here is the proof. That this child, Sarasvatī, when she is a grown-up lady she'll not act like that. But everyone will accept her, Sarasvatī, the same character (?). Her father, mother, relatives, everything is there, Sarasvatī has got another body. So what is the difficulty to understand this logic? That the soul is immortal and the body is changing. What is the difficulty? Just try to understand, you have to preach immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul. What is the difficulty? Simple logic. What is the difficulty? Can anyone say? No difficulty? Will you be able to convince others?



*Nara*-Nārāyaṇa: I think people will argue that just because a child develops to a certain stage, what is the indication that he will develop after that stage? In other words, if I go from birth, youth, old age, then what is to say that I am again going to youth? They will say, "What is that logic? How I will go again to youth? Simply I will go again and vanish away," or something like that. They do not know...



Prabhupāda: No, that example is given. Just like this garment I am using. So when it becomes too old torn or something, so I will throw it away. I take another. What is the difficulty? When this body I am growing or changing, whatever the Christians say, but when it is no more workable, I give it up. I take another. What is the difficulty?



*Nara*-Nārāyaṇa: The materialistic man will think, "Well, I am voluntarily giving up my clothing, but I'm involuntarily giving up my body."



Prabhupāda: Voluntarily, involuntarily, that is another thing. Just like a child does not know that his coat is useless, but mother comes and changes the garment. So it is changing, that's a fact. It doesn't matter whether you are changing voluntarily or involuntarily, that is not very important thing. You are changing, that's a fact. Yes?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What they will argue perhaps, materialists may argue that "We can see that Sarasvatī is changing from the time she was a little girl and now she is a little older, we have seen her both times, but at the time of death we have not seen the next body of anyone.



Prabhupāda: But why do you believe so much your rascal eyes? That is the answer. Do you think that your eyes are perfect? There are many types of seeing. Not that simply with glaring eyesight you can see. You can see what is Sarasvatī , you are seeing the body. What is Sarasvatī, do you know? So what you are seeing? You are seeing the body. So what is the power of your seeing? There is another body, sukavādī (?), subtle body. Can you see the mind? But everyone has got mind. Can you see intelligence? But everyone has got intelligence. So what is the power of your seeing? Why you are so much proud of your seeing, nonsense seeing?



Devotee (1): If our seeing is imperfect we can see the change of body but we cannot see change, the transmigration of the soul.



*Prabhupāda: You cannot see anything. Your power of seeing is so limited that you cannot see anything. Therefore you have to see through Kṛṣṇa, through Bhagavad*-gītā. You are seeing the sun, it is like a disc. But when you see through astronomy, then you will understand it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So what is the power of your seeing? Why you are so much proud of seeing? This is nonsense. Why do you go to school? To learn how to see. Why you can sit down, anyone who hasn't got, never has gone to school and never taken an education, his seeing and a perfect MA, Ph. D. person's seeing, is that all right, the same thing? Then why you are proud of your nonsense seeing? This will be the answer. You have to prepare your eyes to see. You have these, these eyes have no value. Your argument on the imperfect experience of the senses has no value. Yes?



Devotee (2) (lady): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if a person is in a (indistinct) young body (indistinct) have another body.



Prabhupāda: Yes, every moment. That is the medical science. Every second we are changing body. We are changing the corpuscles of blood, therefore my body is changing.



Devotee (2) (lady): (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately. It is just like it is said that you forward one step, when you see that the forward step is right place, then you take the other step. Like this. When you find this is solid, then you take it away, then you put again. It is like that. So at the time of death, as soon as it is settled up that this soul should migrate to such and such body, by superior. It is not in my hands. Daiva-netreṇa. Daiva-netreṇa means superior examination. That is called day of judgement in the Bible. Whether this soul is going to hell or heaven, that is the day of judgement. But they have insufficient knowledge, therefore they think that all the souls after death they lie down for perpetually. It is not that. Actually the judgement is there immediately and he gets another birth, either hell or heaven. Not that he has to wait for the day of judgement. Immediately the day of judgement is... It is does not linger, it is not ordinary court that you have to wait for your judgement for three years or... No, immediately. Immediately it is settled up and the soul is transferred to the father and the... That is material process, how the body will grow. That is also arranged by prakṛti, by nature, under the direction of the Supreme. Just like if you have to paint something, then you have to secure different colors, different... Similarly, the particular type of body the soul will get, how it is to be manufactured, that is also by superior intelligence. The soul is put into the semina of a particular type of father and that quality of the semina mixes with the mother's secretion, then that grows. This is the arrangement. Svābhāviki bala-kriyā ca. Svābhāvikī. We have to think how this body will be manufactured, but Kṛṣṇa is so intelligent, His potencies are so great that simply He shall do it-"This soul should get such and such body"-immediately it is manufactured and comes out. This is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. You cannot manufacture this. But under Kṛṣṇa's direction there are certain energies which can immediately manufacture. But the rascals say, "Automatically it is coming." Not automatically. There is brain, there is energy, there is discretion, there is judgement. There is all these things. Then it will come out with another body. Not blindly. The rascals, they see, "It is coming out blindly." No. How much the mechanism is there within the body that they are working so nicely? Two kinds of secretion mix and immediately they get energy. The mother is eating, from that eating the child is also eating, the intestine is connected (indistinct). How much mechanical arrangement is there? Can any medical science, any scientist, (indistinct) this is matter? Even this is matter, let them manufacture outside this body another body. No. Suppose you have to manufacture something, a small watch. That particular watch has to be manufactured. But Kṛṣṇa has created so nicely that two machines-one male machine, one female machine*-and they're joining and so many machines are coming out. Not that each and every particular machine body has to be tackled (?). Kṛṣṇa has made so nice arrangement, His intelligence is so sharp, that the potency is there that one male machine, one female machine, and they are producing unlimited number of machines. You have to manufacture a machine, a car, in the factory in so many ways. This is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. How nice intelligence, how His energies are acting, so who can explain this? Therefore acintya. Acintya, acintya means inconceivable. So unless you accept Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. There is no possibility. Inconceivable, acintya. Everything is acintya. So, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet, this is the injunction of the Vedas, "Things which are beyond your thinking, don't talk nonsense, don't put nonsense arguments to understand it. Better accept it." Therefore you have to accept the Vedic knowledge without any arguments. That is knowledge, perfect knowledge. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. And one who has got a spiritual master, expert in the Vedic knowledge, then his life is successful. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Therefore you must approach a spiritual master in order to understand that science. Samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. This is the injunction. These things, how you can calculate by argument? Therefore they are called nāstika. Atheist means one who does not believe in the verdict of the Vedas. That is called atheist, atheist. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika. Bauddha, the Buddhists... Buddhists, although they accept Lord Buddha as incarnation, but at the same time we accept them as nāstika, atheist. How Kṛṣṇa becomes atheist? But that is Kṛṣṇa's concern, but we have to study what He is doing. One side He is acting as atheist, that is His policy. That is also explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sammohāya sura-dviṣām [SB 1.3.24], just to teach other atheists, he has become atheist. Because he had to preach among other atheist class of men, He became an atheist, "Yes, there is no God. Now believe me what I say." "Yes, sir, I shall believe." But He is God. (end)





720218LE.VIS

Lecture

-

Visakhapatnam, February 18, 1972



*Prabhupāda: ...and participating in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new movement. It is the oldest. From historical point of view, at least five thousand years old. When Kṛṣṇa introduced this consciousness, that is, in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra which took place at least five thousand years ago. And if we believe śāstras, then it is not only four or five thousand years but it is older than forty millions of years. Not forty, four hundred millions of years. Because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. In the beginning, He told this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god. And the sun*-god transmitted this message to his son, vivasvān manave prāha, to his son, Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. The age of Vaivasvata Manu calculating, it is about four hundred millions of years ago. Then manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. Manu, he explained this yoga system to Mahārāja Ikṣvāku. Mahārāja Ikṣvāku happened to be the forefathers of the kṣatriya family in which Lord Rāmacandra appeared. So Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. The system of Bhagavad-gītā, the yoga system explained in the Bhagavad-gītā was understood by the paramparā system.



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo (viduḥ)

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



*Lord Kṛṣṇa says that in course of time, this yoga system has been lost because the paramparā system became broken. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am initiating you to begin that paramparā system again because it is now, the link is broken. So I want to begin that system through you." So the question is why Kṛṣṇa selected Arjuna to explain this paramparā system? There were many learned scholars five thousand years ago, many Vedantists, many great sages. But Kṛṣṇa selected Arjuna, a military man, a gṛhastha, and dealing with ordinary things, fighting for his own interest. Why he was selected? That is also explained by Kṛṣṇa, bhakto 'si priyo 'si [Bg. 4.3], "This is the only reason. Although you are not Vedantist, you are not supposed to be a great scholar because you are a military man, you are gṛhastha, but still I have selected you because you are My dear friend and bhakta." Without being bhakta, who can become Kṛṣṇa's dear friend? "So therefore, I am speaking to you this confidential." Rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam. It is very mysterious. The first thing is that without becoming a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, bhakta, and dear friend... Kṛṣṇa, we can establish our relationship with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. There are five rasas. They are called śānta-rasa, dāsya-rasa, sakhya-rasa, vātsalya-rasa, and mādhurya-rasa. Of course, in this material world also we find these five rasas in a perverted reflections. Originally, it is between Kṛṣṇa and His devotee. So Arjuna was related with Kṛṣṇa in sakhya-rasa, as friend, a devotee as a friend. Anyone can become related with Kṛṣṇa. We have got our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa because we are all parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the father and the son is eternally related. A son may become rebellion to the father, but the relationship of father and son cannot be broken. Similarly, we are also related with Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other, that we have forgotten. That is our present position. That is called māyā. Māyā means when we forget our relationship with Kṛṣṇa and we establish so many false relationships. Now at the present moment, I am thinking "I am Indian," somebody is thinking "I am American," somebody is thinking "I am Hindu," somebody is thinking "I am Muslim." These relationships are all false, māyā. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says at the end, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is real relationship. That is our real position. That is real mukti. And in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is stated-mukti is defined*-what is that? Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpena vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti means give up your false designation. That is mukti. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from this mukta stage. Lord Sri Kṛṣṇa gave us information what is mukti. Mukti is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam, that is mukti. And Lord Caitanya, when he was instructing Sanatāna Gosvāmī, he began from this point: what is that real constitutional position of the living entity. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was asked by his disciple Sanatāna Gosvāmī that actually what I am? The exact Bengali verse, he says that grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita.



Guest: Ke āmi, kene āmāya.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. He... The first question was, "What I am? Why I am placed in this miserable condition of life in the material world, suffering three kinds of miserable conditions?" Grāmya*-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita. He was prime minister of Nawab Hussain Shah, he was great learned scholar, and in Sanskrit, in Arabic language, a very respectful personality. But he is placing his difficulty to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "Ordinarily these people, they speak of me that I am very learned man. But actually I do not know what I am." That is our position. We are advancing in material civilization, in science, philosophy, and so many so-called religious principles. But actually we do not know what we are, what I am. Any scientist, ask him, "What is after death? What happens after death?" I think hardly any scientist will give you clear idea. That is not possible, because their basic principle of understanding education is wrong, dehātma-buddhiḥ, I am this body. Everyone is fighting. The Pakistani is fighting with Hindustani. Twenty years ago, there was no Pakistani. But due to this false identification of body, a section has become Pakistani. Similarly, long, long ago there was only Vedic culture. Five thousand years ago there was no other culture except this Vedic culture, Aryan culture. But later on, all these so-called system developed. The Christian religion, the Mohammedan religion, or the Buddhist religion, they are all later. Nobody can give history more than two thousand five hundred years. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness, at least if you take the historical reference of Kurukṣetra battle, it is five thousand years old at least.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins where Kṛṣṇa ended. He said to Sanatāna Gosvāmī that jīvera 'svarūpa' haya*-nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], the real identity of the living entity is that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa or God. That is our real identity. But we are identifying in so many ways. Not only am I identifying that "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Christian," "I am Mohammedan," "I am so on, so on," at last, "I am God." At last... That is the last snare of māyā. These are all māyā, this false identification. And the last false identification, when I falsely say that I am God. This is going on. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa said, "You give up all these nonsense theories. You simply surrender unto Me and I will give you protection. I will give you protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. Because anything done without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is sinful. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yam-karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. So either you act piously or act sinfully, you become bound up by the reaction of such pious or impious activities. But if you act for Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is no such bondage. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a concocted thing. It is... We have got authority from the Vedas. We have authority from Kṛṣṇa. We have got authority from Bhagavad-gītā. We have got authority by the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, all of them, even Śaṅkarācārya, although we differ in some points with Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya has admitted Kṛṣṇa, bhagavān sa svayam kṛṣṇa, he has stated. Devakīnandana, he has specifically mentioned Kṛṣṇa, the son of Devakī and Vasudeva, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nārāyaṇa paraḥ avyaktāt. I think those who have read Śaṅkara's comment on Bhagavad-gītā, they know all these things. So Kṛṣṇa is admitted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the bona fide ācāryas. And all scholars up to date, everyone, and confirmed by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedas,

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*And Kṛṣṇa says also in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. "My dear Dhanañjaya, there is no other superior being than Me."



aham sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Those who are devotees, they are not fools, they are actually a man in knowledge, budhā bhāva*-samanvitaḥ. Bhāva-samanvitaḥ means that "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so great. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is bhāva. But this bhāva comes after many, many births. It is not so easy.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Without knowing Kṛṣṇa in truth, not in false but in truth, the bhāva is not possible. And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



bahunam janmanam ante

jñānavān mam prapadyante

vasudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*That mahātmā which are..., who has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, su*-durlabhaḥ, it is very rare. To become kṛṣṇa-bhakta, koṭi (indistinct). Muktānām api siddhānām, koṭi (indistinct). That is the verdict of the śāstra. And Kṛṣṇa also said it is very, very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa Himself as Lord Sri Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is distributing Kṛṣṇa. He is distributing Himself. Therefore, it has become so easy that these foreigners, these Europeans and American boys, they are not very advanced in age, all young men. All my students and followers in Europe and America, they are ninety-nine percent all young men, young girls. They are not old, rejected persons. They are the flowers of the country. They have joined this movement, and they have taken it seriously. Seriously in this sense that whenever a body comes to me for becoming my disciple, my first principle is that you must give up illicit sex life. You must give up meat eating, fish eating, egg eating, all this nonsense. You must give up gambling. You must give up all kinds of intoxication up to the point of drinking coffee, tea, and smoking. They give up. Therefore, they have taken seriously. Why seriously? These young boys, they have got so many desires in their heart, still they are taking to it, it is Lord Caitanya's mercy. It is Lord Caitanya's mercy because they are following the principles of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. He established Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but rascals and fools began to imitate Him and decry Him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because He came as human being, so many persons represented that "I am God, I am Kṛṣṇa, I am this," no. God is one. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Nobody can become greater than God or equal to God. Therefore, God's another name is asamaurdhva, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody can be equal with God, nobody can be greater than God. Everyone must be... Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142], that is the statement in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. God is only one, Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is servant. Of course, God's servant and God, there is little difference. Because sometimes servant has got greater power than God, that is different thing. But actually nobody can be greater than God, nobody can be equal to God.



So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are not manufacturing anything. We simply place it that here is Kṛṣṇa, you are searching after God.

When I first went to America, they were speaking that God is dead. Even church, in the church, the priest in the church, they were sermoning that God is dead. But when I began chanting in the Tompkinson Square alone underneath a tree, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, these boys and girls began to assemble. So next day there was a big publicity in a paper with my picture and all this crowd that they say that "We thought God is dead, but here we see the Swamiji has brought God again in his kīrtana, in his chanting." They admitted. The New York published in all their papers. So God cannot be dead. Not that everyone can be God. God is one, and that is Kṛṣṇa.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



These are the Vedic authorities accepted by the ācāryas. Therefore, it has become easy for me to convert so many boys and girls in the foreign countries. Not only Christian, Jews, but there are many Mohammedans, Africans. In Africa also we have got branches. And recently I went to Africa, the Africans are also chanting exactly like these European and Americans. So this benediction, this foretelling of Lord Caitanya is actually going to be fulfilled.



*pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi*-grama

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



So my request is that it is experiment that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can be spread all over the world and there are many, many customers still awaiting. So if we actually want to do welfare to the people of the world, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu predicted, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,



*bhārata bhumite manuṣya*-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*So India, India at least, those who have taken birth as human being, never mind what he is, he has got special privilege. This land is called puṇya*-bhūmi. A not ordinary living entity can take birth in this land, Bharata-varṣa. We have got this opportunity. And according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, if we take advantage of the Vedic literature, Veda, Purāṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā. These Veda Purāṇas are meant for the human being. We should study these Veda purāṇas and know what is what, what is God, what I am, what is this world. In this way, we must fructify, make our life successful, and then preach this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*It is not very difficult. Anyone can do provided he does not make the mistake adulterating the statements of Bhagavad*-gītā. Those who are adulterating, interpreting in a different way this Bhagavad-gītā, they are very mischievous. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa has already declared, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Those who are not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, they have been described by Kṛṣṇa Himself as Duṣkṛtinaḥ, mischievous. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. Mūḍhā, asses, rascals. And if somebody says... We find so many learned scholars, they do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then what is their position? Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, māyaya apahṛta-jñānā." They are learned, so-called learned, but their knowledge has been taken away by māyā. So this is the essence of Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. To understand Kṛṣṇa and kṛṣṇa-bhakti is there in everyone's heart. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta kar says,

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart. Just like we see the child, three years old child, she is dancing in ecstasy. We have got many children like that, they are chanting. There is no need of higher education to understand. Simply give oral reception to this transcendental vibration. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, golokera prema*-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. This hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana is not this material vibration like radios and television. It is imported from the Goloka Vṛndāvana. Therefore, if we are pure, if we chant this vibration, immediately we will be touching Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense... There are ten kinds of offenses. Apart from that offenses, if you simply chant, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], immediately your heart will be cleansed of all nasty, dirty things. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam. And you will get immediately freed from this.



*Just now one of my students was speaking to me before coming to this that somebody was asking him, "How you are free from all anxieties?" They see. One priest, and... As I was traveling from Hawaii to..., no, from Los Angeles to Hawaii, one gentleman-he is a priest*-he asked me, he began to talk in the airplane for at least half an hour. He said, "Swamiji, how is that your disciples look so bright faces?" Yes, they are bright faces. One priest in Boston, he regretted, he issued regret that "These boys, they are our boys, they are mad after God but we could not give them." So this is practical. Why practical? Because we are following the principles. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Bhava-mahā, immediately, the second you will start it, as soon as you go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, immediately you become free from... Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. Everyone is... Material existence means full of anxieties. That is material existence. And Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by his father, "What best thing you have learned, my dear boy?" He said that "If you want to cut down your material anxiety, then you must surrender unto the Lord." Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5], you must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So there are evidences, there are gurus, there is no scarcity of facility, it is very simple, and there is no loss. So our request, our only appeal to the people is that you just follow the principles laid down by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*You cannot execute all expensive yajñas or you cannot meditate, that is not possible. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. That meditation was possible in the Satya*-yuga, kṛte. And tretayaṁ yajato makhaiḥ. And costly performance of sacrifices was possible in the Tretā-yuga. And dvāpare paricaryāyām. In the Dvāparā-yuga, it was possible to construct costly temples and worship the Deity there. But in the Kali-yuga, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Kali, in the Kali, this age, you have to simply take this process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then all your desires will be fulfilled and your life will be successful. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause-end)





720219ad.vis

Speech at Gaudiya Math Center

-

Visakhapatnam, February 19, 1972



*Prabhupāda: ...His Holiness Śrīpāda Puri Mahārāja, we are very much thankful to the authorities of this temple for giving us shelter and associating with this holy function. You will translate? (Indian devotee translates throughout but tape is wound fast forward over these translations) Today's function is installing a different important incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Brahma*-saṁhitā about the incarnation of the Supreme Lord, Govinda is mentioned primarily beginning with Rāma.



*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavad paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, as it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā and other Vedic literature. Kṛṣṇa says Himself, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7], "There is no more superior authority than Me." There is no difference between Lord Rāma, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Nrsiṁha, Varāha, They are all the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the explanation that a candle, the original candle, and you can lit up another candle, you can lit up another candle. Although the original candle you can say number one candle, but all the candles are equally powerful. There is no question. Because the second candle is enlightened from the first candle, it does not mean that the second candle is less powerful than the original candle. The one Supreme Lord, He expands Himself. Just like we can get one example. You can have your photograph and you can by photograph, you can expand yourself. Or you stand before hundreds and millions of mirrors, your body will be reflected, your bodily feature will be reflected. But the thing is, in this material world, that reflection of the body is not as good as the original body because it is dual world. But in the absolute world, such reflection, such expansion, they are as good as the original. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as we have sung just now, rādhā-mādhava kuñja-bihārī, He lives in His place, Goloka.



*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis-

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*Although He is always situated in Goloka Vṛndāvana for satisfaction of the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. Gopī*-jana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī. Kṛṣṇa, the original Personality of Godhead, is very busy to satisfy the gopī-jana, the gopīs and the cowherd boys. He does not go out of Vṛndāvana. But still, because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He can expand Himself in such a way. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Kṛṣṇa expands Himself, eko bahu syāma. According to Vedic description, the first is viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva and jīva-tattva. The viṣṇu-tattva is called svāṁśa. There is no difference between one viṣṇu-tattva to another. Just like (indistinct) Rāmacandra, He is viṣṇu-tattva. Nārāyaṇa, viṣṇu-tattva. Balarāma, viṣṇu-tattva. So there is no difference in power. They are called svāṁśa, svāṁśa-vistṛra. And there are other vistṛra. That is called vibhinnāṁśa vistṛra, separated part and parcel. We are, we the jīvas, we are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. But we are a small, separated part and parcel, whereas viṣṇu-tattva expansion, They are full in power. The viṣṇu-tattvas are known as puruṣa-tattva, whereas the jīva-tattva is known as śakti-tattva. Jīva-tattva, as the Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that jīva-tattva can be God or jīva can become God. That is a false theory. It has no value according to Vedic scripture. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that



apareyam itas (tv anyāṁ)

tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām

*jīva*-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*So this jīva*-tattva is accepted as prakṛti, not puruṣa. There are two kinds of prakṛtis or energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One is called inferior energy, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ [Bg. 7.4], these material elements, earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and false ego, they are inferior energies of the Supreme Lord. And the jīva-bhūta, that superior energy world, because the superior energy tries to lord it over the material energy. Just like we are jīvas. Every one of us trying to utilize the material resources of the material nature. We are simply trying. Actually we are not bhoktā. Bhoktā is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. [break]



...natural endeavor of the jīvas, living entities, to have control over this material world is false. Therefore, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is propagated to make them understand that their endeavor to lord it over the material nature will always be frustrated. An example can be given, one gentleman has got more than one wife. So if the wives quarrel between themselves that one wife will enjoy the another or predominate over the other wives, that is not possible. Similarly, prakṛti, we are prakṛti, we cannot control over the other prakṛti. It may be I am superior prakṛti but the other is inferior prakṛti. But that does not mean one prakṛti can enjoy the other prakṛti. Therefore, this enjoying spirit should be given up. This enjoying spirit is māyā. Māyā means illusion. The same example, one woman cannot enjoy other woman. The all women is enjoyable by the man, that is the nature. Similarly, we are prakṛti, jīva, and the material world is also prakṛti. So one prakṛti cannot enjoy prakṛti. The best thing is, best adjustment is that all the prakṛtis should be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. All these prakṛtis different wives of Kṛṣṇa or energies, they are struggling, unnecessarily they are struggling to become predominator. In this material world, everyone is trying to be predominator. One nation is trying to become predominator of other nations. One man is trying to be predominator of other men. One brother is trying to be predominator of other brothers. This is māyā. So everyone should give up the spirit of predominating. They should be willingly surrendered for becoming predominated by the Supreme Lord. Then you will be in peace (?). The whole world is suffering on this false predominating position. The human form different parties, this party and that party. But if you have got the same disease, same disease means spirit of predominating. At the present moment, it is going on. Take for example the Communist Party or Jana Sangha Party or this party or that party. They have formed different parties but the disease is there that "I shall predominate." So this party forming with the diseased condition that "I shall be enjoyer," there cannot be any peace. [break] Therefore, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said,

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas

*te 'pīṣa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



The different parties, different mentalities, they are trying to predominate over other. They are blind themselves. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas. One blind man is trying to lead other blind men. There cannot be any benefit. They should know the ultimate goal of life is Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we shall all surrender unto Him. Then there can be peace and prosperity. Thank you very much. [break]



*Devotee: Speech delivered in the Gaudīya Math, Visakhapatnam, February 19th, 1972. (break*-kīrtana with Śrīla Prabhupāda leading) (end)





720219LE.VIS

Lecture at Caitanya Maṭha

-

Visakhapatnam, February 19, 1972



Prabhupāda: ...for your kindly coming here and participating in the great Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. [break] ...in this meeting, the Commissioner of Income Tax...



Host: Sales tax.



*Prabhupāda: Sales tax, present here, and he has asked me (loud applause) one intelligent question, which I, I was just going to answer. So I shall try to answer, here in this meeting, what is the objective of this movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a purificatory process. Consciousness is there, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam, there are two kinds of consciousness. One consciousness is limited, another consciousness is unlimited. The unlimited consciousness is there in God, and limited consciousness is there in you, in me, and of all living entities.



Host: (calls out for silence)



*Prabhupāda: Just like if I pinch your body, you feel pain. This is also consciousness, that somebody is pinching me. But if I pinch somebody else, you cannot feel it. Therefore, your consciousness or my consciousness is limited within this body. Similarly there is another consciousness which is Kṛṣṇa's consciousness, or universal consciousness. If I pinch your body, He feels, that I am pinching somebody, as Paramātmā. These things are explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣetra-kṣetrajña, chapter (?). Kṣetra means this body, and kṣetra-jña means the knower of the body. Kṣetra-jña, jña means knower. So, Kṛṣṇa says that each and every body, there is a kṣetra-jña. I know about the pains and pleasure of my body, you know the pains and pleasure of your body.



Host: (calls for silence)



Prabhupāda: I think they cannot understand.



*Host: (calls for silence and explains in local language that talk is in English among other things*-break)



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that kṣetra*-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]. Just like I am present in my body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body, but Kṛṣṇa, because He is present in everyone's body, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61], He knows the pains and pleasure of all bodies. That is difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourselves, or God and ourselves. This is the test. Somebody is claiming that "I am God." How you can be God? You cannot know the pains and pleasures of others, but Kṛṣṇa knows. That is the difference between God and living entity. [break] So far consciousness is concerned, God is also conscious, we are also conscious, but our consciousness is limited and God's consciousness is unlimited. That is the difference.



*Arjuna, when he was, he was taking instruction from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says that this yoga system I explained to the Sun*-god. And Arjuna inquired, "How is that Kṛṣṇa? Both You and me, we are born recently. How it is that You say that You explained to the Sun-god, long, long year, forty millions of years ago?" Kṛṣṇa answered this point, "My dear Arjuna, you are My eternal friend. You are always with Me. When I instructed the Sun-god, you were also present, but you have forgotten. I do not forget." That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. Kṛṣṇa knows everything. Whatever has happened in the past, whatever will happen in the future, and what is happening at the present, vedāhaṁ samatītāni, but we do not know. First of all this is, we should understand this is the difference between God and the living entity. [break]

*The jīva are explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. The example is given, just like the fire, big fire, and the sparks. The sparks are small, but, but in quality they are fire. They are not different from fire. If a spark of fire falls on your cloth, it will immediately burn. So the burning quality is there, either in the big fire or the small fire. Therefore, qualitatively we are one with God. The quality of burning. Another example is just like the drop of the ocean water. Chemical composition of this drop of ocean water is the same as the chemical combination of the big mass of water. So Kṛṣṇa, He is all-powerful. We are also powerful. Kṛṣṇa can create. We also can create. Kṛṣṇa can create, just like innumerable planets floating in the air. We can create a small, teeny aeroplane or sputnik flying in the air. You see. So the creative power is there, but there is far difference between Kṛṣṇa's creative power and my creative power. Kṛṣṇa, in the Vedas it is said,

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate

*svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca

na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇam ca vidyate

*na tat*-samaś cābhyadikaś ca dṛśyate

[Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]



*The difference between Kṛṣṇa and me is this. That suppose, I am painting one nice flower. So I require the brush, I require the color, I require the intelligence, I require the time, so that somehow or other, in few days or in few months, I paint a very nice color fruit, flower or fruit. But Kṛṣṇa's energy is so experienced that by working His energy, many millions of flowers, colorful flowers, come at once. The foolish scientists, they say that it is the work of the nature. No. Nature is instrumental. Behind nature there is brain of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he understands that this flower has not come blindly. These varieties of flowers, trees, and leaves, they are developing under direction of Kṛṣṇa, but His direction is so powerful it comes at once, svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca. Just like a great scientist pushing on a button, electronics. Immediately something wonderful happens, but it is not that the machine is working, it is the scientist who is pushing on the button. Similarly, don't take, this is nonsense that nature is producing. No, nature cannot produce. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*Mayādhyakṣeṇa, under My supervision the nature is working. Not blindly. This is not something ignorant. This is crude knowledge. Just like a child, he sees that aeroplane is running on the sky. He may think that the airplane is running automatically, by itself. No. The machine, without being touched by the pilot, cannot work. The machine may be perfect, very nice, but the pilot is required. So, at the present moment the civilization is trying to avoid God, the brain of God. That is foolishness. That is not fact. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



So, the Kṛṣṇa conscious person sees behind nature, the hand of God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. [break]



There is one verse in the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*,

*eka*-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis

tathedam akhilaṁ jagat



*What is this world, manifestation. This is explained. Just like the fire is existing... Just like the sun, sun is an emblem of fire, and ninety*-three millions of miles away it is situated, eka sthāni sthitasya, but because it is fiery planet, its heat and light is expanded, and in that heat and light everything is being generated. Just like, we have got practical experience, in western countries where there is no sufficient heat and light, the trees and the flowers do not grow so luxuriously, because there is want of heat and light. And when there is snowfall, when there is no sunlight, everything, the trees become, without any leaf, dry, śuṣka. So, as it is the cause of the different leaves and flowers and fruit, is the heat and light of the sun, similarly, Kṛṣṇa has got two kinds of energies. That is also heat and light. That heat and light is spiritual energy and material energy. The material energy, not material energy, material energy is practically darkness, there is no light. The Vedic instruction is therefore that, don't keep yourself within this darkness, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. There is another sky. Just like in this sky, you will find it is darkness. Naturally it is darkness. Because there is darkness, therefore Kṛṣṇa has created the sun. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. It is said,



*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*The scientists say that the sun is rotating in its orbit so carefully that if it moves from one side, the whole universe will be immediately turned into ice, and if it moves the other side, then immediately the whole universe will be ablaze. So carefully, yasya ajñāyā bhramati. The scientists have seen so far that the sun is moving very carefully. Neither this side nor that side, exactly in the orbit. So who has ordered, who has planned this orbit? The Brahma*-saṁhitā informs, yasya-ajñāyā, by whose order the sun is rotating exactly in the orbit, yasyājñāyā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. "I am offering..." He is not struck with wonder by the arrangement in the material world, how the sun is moving, how the moon is moving, how the nature is working. He knows that there is a brain, big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also says,



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Anyone who has understood Kṛṣṇa rightly, in truth, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is budhā, he's actually in knowledge, bhāva*-samanvitāḥ. Kṛṣṇa is so great. Kṛṣṇa's great power is so great. Generally people take Kṛṣṇa very slightly. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa danced with the gopīs." They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they go to hell by hearing from unauthorized sources, this Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. They go to hell. We have to face so many questions sometimes, "Why Kṛṣṇa did like this?" Because due to this professional Bhāgavata readers, when they read Bhāgavata, they immediately open the rasa-līlā chapter. Because they have no other knowledge, they cannot explain. Bhāgavata begins from the very beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca arthe [SB 1.1.1]. They have no brain to explain all these intricate verses in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, what is Kṛṣṇa, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. They jump over to the spiritual rasa-līlā, and people misunderstand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*One has to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then his Kṛṣṇa consciousness will help him how to become budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ. Then he'll be fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One who knows..., but how one can know, understand, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in truth, that is stated by Kṛṣṇa.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*After Brahman realization, after being freed from this material contamination, when one becomes actually happy, prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, no anxiety, at that time, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. And He especially mentions,



bhaktyā mām abhijānāti

yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ

tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā

*viśate tad*-anantaram

[Bg. 18.55]



*If one tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, as He is, not by fiction, not by speculation, not by so*-called scholarly, foolish commentation, but Kṛṣṇa should be understood as He is. Then, that is right Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then one will be able to understand how Kṛṣṇa is working, how the whole world, material atmosphere, and material, cosmic manifestation is working. Then you will understand. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10], under my supervision. To understand Kṛṣṇa, and anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa, scientifically, then he, Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Not the foolish man, the intelligent man, who knows Kṛṣṇa actually, then the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately he becomes liberated. So after giving up this body, he never, no more comes back to accept another, this material body. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. [break]



*This living entity, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, how he has got this condition of material life? That can be explained in this way. Just like this fire spark. As long as it is in the fire, it is also just like fire, glowing, glowing. Only it is spark, it is glowing. But, if it falls down from the fire, then immediately it becomes extinguished. The glowing quality becomes extinguished, and there are three kinds of different position of the living entity according to the quality of this material nature he associates. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. The living entity is the same, but when he comes into this material world, he associates with three kinds of material qualities, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So one who is in sattva-guṇa, brahminical qualification, actually, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. One who has got the brahminical qualities by work and actually in life, satya, śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam, jñānaṁ-vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So he can understand. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, he can understand, so how, what is my relationship with the Supreme Lord. So similarly, one who is in the rajo-guṇa, the example is given. There is a spark. When it falls down on dry grass, the dry grass becomes blazing. Although the spark is fallen, it causes the atmosphere lighten(?). And if the spark falls on the wet ground, then it is, the sparking, the glowing quality may remain for sometime, but it will be extinguished. And if it falls down on the water, it is extinguished. Similarly, when the living entity comes to this material world, if by chance he is in the association of the goodness, he keeps God consciousness. And if he is in the association of passion, he is materially busy. And if he associates with the quality of ignorance, he becomes animals or animal-like man. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving everyone the chance of to become again (indistinct) by association of Kṛṣṇa. The same spark, that extinguished charcoal, or karma, if you put into the fire, it will be again light. Similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to bring forth again the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness in every living entity.

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



We are just trying to revive it, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibhodata. We are trying to awaken the human society to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and live this life successfully. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. (end)

Lecture excerpt

--

Visakhapatnam, February 20, 1972,

At Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Maṭha (BV Purī Mahārāja)

720220LE.VIS

Lecture excerpt

-

Visakhapatnam, February 20, 1972,

At Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Maṭha (BV Purī Mahārāja)



Prabhupāda:



*kṛṣṇot*-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here to participate in this great Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement was started by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as we have explained several times, and the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was followed by the six gosvāmīs. Vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yagan śrī-jīva-gopālakau. The six gosvāmīs, who lived at Vṛndāvana, they came from different parts of the country. Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī belonged to formerly South Kanada, and they established..., their forefathers established themselves in Bengal. So Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī was South Indian. Similarly, Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī belonged to Bengal. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up very great personalities from all parts of the country. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yagau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So how they... [break] (end)





720318LE.BOM

Lecture

-

Bombay, March 18, 1972



*Prabhupāda: I thank you very much for your coming here and participating in this great movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is already there in the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So in the morning we shall speak on the Bhagavad-gītā in Hindi, and in the evening we shall speak on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in English. Of course, in India there was no necessity of speaking in English, but at least once if I do not speak in English, all my disciples who have come from Europe and America, they will be bereft of hearing me. Therefore we have made this program: morning I shall speak in Hindi, and in the evening I shall speak in English.



*So Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. There are eighteen Purāṇas, and out of them, six Purāṇas are meant for persons who are in sattva-guṇa. There are three qualities of the material nature. Some of us are in the modes of goodness, some of them are in the modes of passion, and some of them are in the modes of ignorance. So our Vedic literature... Sri Vyāsadeva claims everyone. Not that simply persons who are in sattva-guṇa, or in the modes of goodness, they are eligible for going back to Godhead, back to home. We should remember this fact, that this human form of life is meant for going back to home, back to Godhead. That is the ultimate goal of life. This human form of life is not meant for working very hard like the animals. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke, kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām ye [SB 5.5.1]. Nāyaṁ deha, this body, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke. Every one of the living entities, they have taken this material form, and there are 8,400,000 species of forms. The best of the forms is this human form. But this form of life is not meant for working so hard like an ass and gratifying the senses like the hogs and dogs. That is the injunction of the śāstras. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool-eaters. The stool-eaters you have seen, the hogs. The whole day and night they are searching after stool. So the śāstra, especially Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, says that the human form of life is not meant for working so hard like the hogs and dogs simply for sense gratification. The modern civilization, the so-called economic development, what is the ultimate aim of life? The ultimate aim of life is sense gratification, that's all. I have traveled all over the world. Especially in the Western countries, they are simply after sense gratification. They have no other objective. In America, some rich man goes to Florida and spends $50,000 a week simply for seeing naked dance. That means they have no other information than sense gratification. Wine and woman, that's all. That is gradually being spread all over the world. In our country also, working day and night, whole day and night, but the objective is sense gratification.

*So śāstra says that this human form of life is not meant for this purpose. The human form of life is meant for tapasya: tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattva [SB 5.5.1]. Satya means my existence. We have to purify our existence. Just like if you become feverish, you have to purify yourself from the feverish condition, come to the healthy condition, then you can enjoy life. You cannot enjoy life in diseased condition. That is not possible. Suppose you are feverish, you are given a nice foodstuff, rasagullā, but you will taste it bitter. You cannot enjoy it because on account of your fever the tongue is saturated with bile, and you taste sweet things as bitter. Similarly, we have got our senses, that is all right, but we cannot enjoy our senses in the diseased condition of material life. Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. If you want happiness, even sense gratification, that is not possible when your senses are covered by these material elements. We have got our senses, that is a fact. We have got our desires, we have got our mind, we have got our other senses, but this is now covered by the material elements. This is called dress. Just like if you are simply dressed, and if you want to enjoy sense gratification, it is not possible. You have to undress yourself, you have to become naked yourself. Similarly, if you want to sense gratify, then you have to purify your this material existence. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. You have to become purified. Śuddhyed satya yeṇa brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. If you purify yourself, then by that purified senses you enjoy brahma-sukha. Brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. Ananta means there is no end. Here, if you want to enjoy your senses in this material world, there is end. You cannot. The highest sense gratification in this material world is sex life, but you cannot enjoy sex life perpetually. For some moments-then it is ended. But brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. But if you want to enjoy brahma-sukha... That is also sense gratification, but that is ananta. Ananta means there is no end. Ramante yoginam anante. The yogis... Yogis means the bhakti-yogī, because of all yogis, the bhakti-yogī is the best. That is the statement by Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā.

yoginām api sarveṣām

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*The highest yogi is bhakti-yogī. These boys and girls that have taken this bhakti-yoga, they are the topmost yogis. So yoginam ramante. They also enjoy. Ramante yoginam anante. But their reciprocation of sense gratification is with the ananta, the supreme unlimited. Ramante yoginam anante satyānanda. That is real happiness, satyānanda. Here in this material world, that is mithyānanda, but real ānanda is to reciprocate with the Supreme, just like Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa līlā. So ramante yoginam anante satyānanda-cid-ātmani. And that is not material. Cit. That is spiritual, cid-ātmani. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate [Cc. Madhya 9.29]. Therefore rāma, rāma means to enjoy spiritual bliss satyānanda. That is, that should be the aim of human form of life. Human form of life is a chance to come back to the real platform of transcendental bliss. And if we waste our time simply for animal sense gratification like dogs and hogs, then you are wasting your time.



*So this bhagavata dharma, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is started to educate people for enjoying satyānanda, satyānanda. At the present moment we have no information what is the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is described in the Vedānta*-sūtra as janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra begins with this sūtra, that "Now this human form of life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth and my relationship with Him.'' That is the human mission. The dogs and hogs, they cannot understand what is the aim of life, but in the human form of life we can understand that this form of life is especially meant for understanding the Absolute Truth, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth. Kṛṣṇa therefore says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Absolute Truth means the Supreme. In the Brahma-sūtra it is indicated that the human form of life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. We have to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human form of life, not to waste our time simply going to the market and inquire, "What is the rate of rice and what is the rate of dahl?'' That should go on, but along with it there should be inquiry what is the Absolute Truth and what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. That is beginning of human form of life. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. The foolish persons, foolish living entities, abodha-jāto... All of us, we are born ignorant; *otherwise why we are sent to a school? Why the children are sent to a school? Because they're abodha*-jāto. By birth they are all śūdras, abodha. Therefore according to Vedic system there are saṁskāras, reformatory methods, and when the child is taken for saṁskāra, that is called upanayana. Upanaya means bringing him nearer to understand spiritual life. That is sacred thread ceremony. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born ignorant. Otherwise why a person even born in brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya family, why this upanāya saṁskāra is there? Because it is to be understood that when a person takes birth, he's śūdra. He has to be educated. He has to be given transcendental knowledge. That is the aim of human life. Unfortunately, these things are now stopped.

*So actually we are begetting like cats and dogs, and how can you expect peace and prosperity in the society of cats and dogs or hogs? It is not possible. So in this age especially, kalau śūdra*-sambhavaḥ. The population is increasing simply śūdras. But there is great necessity of brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas. There are some population who are vaiśyas and śūdras, but practically the civilization is going on in the hands of vaiśyas and śūdras. I don't mean that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdras by birth-right; *by qualification. These are all explained in Bhagavad*-gītā. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The society must be divided into four classes of orders. There must be intelligent class of men, who are called brāhmaṇas. They must give spiritual education to society. Not that everyone should remain laborer and work hard day and night like hogs and dogs for sense gratification. It is a very dangerous civilization. You cannot expect any peace and prosperity in this type of civilization. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very essential, very, very essential. I am very glad to inform you that this movement is being especially received in the Western countries by the younger generation. I am very much hopeful. I am old man of seventy-six years age. Now, I can pass away at any moment, but I am confident that my disciples, who are mostly Europeans and Americans, they will continue this movement, and I wish there will be considerable change on the face of the globe.

*So this Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam gives you instruction how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Bhagavad-gītā is the elementary lessons how to understand Kṛṣṇa, then become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa... It is not very easy thing to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*Kṛṣṇa says Himself that "Out of many, many millions of people, one may be interested how to make life successful. One may know what is the aim of life.'' That is called siddhi. Yatatām... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Everyone is interested how to earn money or how to gratify senses. That is the modern civilization. Here is a competition of sense gratification. I'm gratifying my senses in one way, and all others, they are trying to imitate me or compete with me though they hate me. This is going on. Everyone is trying to be the lord of all I survey. That is competition. Why I want to become the lord of all I survey? Because I want to gratify my senses to the greatest extent. This is going on. But actually our position is not to lord it over. Our position is to be lorded by the Lord. That is our position, actually. If you don't agree to be predominated by the Supreme Lord, then you shall be predominated by other agent, other energy, the material energy. I met one great professor in Moscow. The subject matter was freedom, Communism. So my last question was that "You people, Communists, you have surrendered to Lenin, and we have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Then where is the difference? You have selected a personality like Lenin or Stalin or Marx. We have selected a personality, Kṛṣṇa. Now, so far the principle of surrender is concerned, it is there in Communism and our Vaiṣṇavism. Now it has to be seen whether Kṛṣṇa is good or Lenin or good. That is a different question.'' So actually we are trying to be free, but we surrender to some rascal, that's all. Instead of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa we prefer to surrender to some rascal or fool. That is māyā. We have to surrender. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa*-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our real identification is eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is our real identification. But unfortunately, artificially we are trying to lord it over Kṛṣṇa or over the material nature. This is struggle. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. This struggle you cannot overcome. Kṛṣṇa says duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the influence of material nature. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "If anyone surrenders unto Me, then he can get rid of this influence of the material nature.'' This is the law. You cannot artificially change it. If you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, God, then the māyā, or the material energy, will always give you trouble. The triṣu, three kinds of miserable conditions. The trident you have seen. The trident in the hand of Goddess Durgā, and she is punishing the demons with the trident on the chest. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has said, viṣaya-viṣānale dibā-niśi hiyā jvale. Our heart is always burning on account of this material condition, threefold miseries of material life: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, and adhidaivika. Viṣaya-viṣānale dibā-niśi hiyā jvale juṛāite nā koinu upāya. "I did not make any attempt how to get out of it.'' Golokera prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana rati nā janmila kene tāya. "Unfortunately, I could not develop my attachment for Kṛṣṇa or His name, which is the only process to get out of this anxieties of material existence.''



*So these are the facts. Everyone is anxious to have peace. The process of peace is not that you can manufacture. The process of peace is already there in the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said by the Lord that,

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasaṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



This is the way of śānti. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for actual peace and prosperity. Now if we are unfortunate, if we do not take this movement very seriously, that is a different thing. But actually this movement is on sound basis of Vedic knowledge, and it is very scientific. Any scientist, any philosopher can scrutinizingly study this movement. We have got book, very big, big books, four hundred, five hundred pages, one dozen books. If you have time, you read this philosophy, this science, and try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But it is not a new movement. It is already known in India. Unfortunately, we Indian people, we are rejecting. That is our misfortune. Our misfortune is, as it is said, (Hindi). We have kicked out our own culture; *now we are trying to develop another culture from other spheres of the world. So you can do that*-there is no objection-but don't forget your original culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which was taught by Kṛṣṇa Himself five thousand years ago in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakta mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: "Always think of Me, always worship Me, always offer your respect unto Me, then you will come back to home, back to Godhead.'' Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Just try to surrender unto Me only,'' mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Our sufferings are due to our sinful activities. We cannot surpass the vigilance of material nature by committing or by executing sinful life. That is not possible. Therefore in our movement we ask everybody, especially our serious students, to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex life, intoxication, gambling and meat-eating. These are the pillars of sinful life. If you think that you are enjoying life by indulging in these four kinds of sense gratification, that means you are implicating yourself. The chance of human body which you have got now to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you misuse it and indulge in sinful life, then next life is waiting as cats and dogs. That is nature's law. But if we forget the nature's law, if you simply become puffed-up by false education, that is another thing. You can do that. But real fact is this: vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22].



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*You have to change this dress. You have to change this body. And next body is depending on your activities. If you act sinfully, then you have to take the body, by force of nature, as cats and dogs. That is certain. Don't risk your life. Take the opportunity of human life and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa personally comes to canvass, to "Please give up all this engagement, please come to Me, surrender unto Me, and I will give you all protection.'' This is the lesson we understand from Bhagavad*-gītā. And if we actually surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, if we actually understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then your bhāgavata-dhima(?) begins. That is Vyāsa... These are all contributions of Śrīla Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva, the last contribution of Vyāsadeva, after compilation of Vedānta-sūtra... He personally wrote the comments of Vedānta-sūtra in the form of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānāṁ **. Vyāsadeva has written personally that "This is the real commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra.'' Because he knew that many foolish persons would comment on the Vedānta-sūtra differently, atheistically, that "There is no God. I am God. You are God.'' Therefore he protected the readers of Brahma-sūtra. [break] ...form of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And because it is commentary of the Vedānta-sūtra, therefore he begins with first aphorism of the Vedānta-sūtra: janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Now, he explains the verse, the sūtra, or the code, Vedic code, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The first question is, "Who is... What is the Absolute Truth, you should inquire now.'' This is the beginning of human life. If one does not inquire what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God, that is animal life. That is animal life, that is not human life. Human life is not meant for simply eating, sleeping, and mating and, or defending.



*So this is the beginning, as I have told you. Parābhava. Without understanding our relationship with the Supreme Lord, whatever we are creating by our industrialization, economic development or so on and so on, it is all defeat, because we are losing the chance. Lord Jesus Christ also said in one place that "If we are lost of our souls and if we gain the whole world, then what is the gain?'' Actually that is the fact. We are losing ourselves. Suppose after making huge amounts of money in the bank balance, and if I die and if I take birth in the next life as a cat and dog, then what is the benefit of amassing such a huge amount of bank balance? We should understand this. Therefore unless we inquire about the Brahman or the Absolute Truth, then whatever activities we are performing without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without the knowledge of the Brahman, then they are all defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Therefore human life actually begins when this inquiry is there. If this inquiry is not there, then it is animal life. That is stated in the Upaniṣads: etad viditya (...Sanskrit). If anyone passes away from this material world, from this body, after understanding what is Brahman, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is this world, what I am, then he is a brāhmaṇa. (Sanskrit) And if one passes away like cats and dogs without understanding, then he's a kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser, who could not properly use his property or assets. He's called a miser. So we have got this human form of life. Don't become a miser simply by seeing that "How I can enjoy?'' How I can enjoy, that is also very much nicely explained, that if you think that, "If I can live for three hundred years, or say one thousand years, then my life is successful.'' The Bhāgavata says, "Why three hundred years? There are many trees who are living for ten thousand years.'' So do you think that by living for ten thousand years your life is successful? Śaṅkarācārya lived for thirty-two years. Lord Caitanya lived for forty-eight years. So living for many, many years is not success of life. Live for a moment, but live for, with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is success of life. Live for a moment. It does not require to live for thousands of years. Because there are many trees... I have seen in San Francisco, one great tree is standing for seven thousand years, this tree, and standing in the jungle. Do you like such kind of life, living? Live, live for worth living. Don't live like cats and dogs. That is life. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1].

*So try to understand the Bhāgavata. Try to understand Vedānta philosophy. Unfortunately, when we study Bhāgavata we immediately jump over Kṛṣṇa*-līlā with the gopīs. That is not the process. The process is first of all you try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Without understanding Kṛṣṇa, which is very difficult subject matter... Kṛṣṇa says that yatatām api siddhānām kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3]. So the preliminary study of Kṛṣṇa is Śrīmad, er, Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa explains Himself. (aside:) Give me water. (coughs) In the Seventh Chapter, we shall begin from tomorrow morning, the study of this Bhagavad-gītā in the morning. Please try to come. Kṛṣṇa is giving personally instruction. You cannot understand God, Kṛṣṇa, by your mental speculation. (coughs) That is called Kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya, Dr. Frog philosophy. A frog from within the well, he's trying to study Atlantic Ocean. This is a logic given in the Nyāya-śāstra. Kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya. What he'll study about the Atlantic Ocean? One who has got knowledge, three-feet knowledge in the well, what idea he'll get about Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean? As it is not possible simply by imagination, simply, similarly, if you try to understand about God, or Kṛṣṇa, by your mental speculation, it will be simply a waste of time. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo (Sanskrit). That is already forbidden, that "You cannot understand by your great brain.'' What brain you have got? Teeny brain. You cannot compare your brain with God's brain. You are very proud by flying a sputnik in the sky. That's all right. You have got good brain. But there is another personality who has got brain who is floating millions and trillions of planets as weightlessness in the sky. So you cannot compare your brain with that brain, but there is a brain. So nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya. Simply by speculating, simply by concoction, you cannot understand. You have to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa, from Him. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. Just like you cannot see the sun at this time, when the night is dark. You cannot, ah, I mean to say, invent some searchlight and ask people, "Please come on the roof. I shall show you the sun by the searchlight.'' It is not possible. By your endeavor you cannot see the sun at night. But when the sun rises in the morning, you can see. That is the process. Similarly, you cannot understand God by your mental speculation. You have to submit yourself. As Kṛṣṇa says, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Then He will reveal Himself, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. He'll reveal yourself. He is within yourself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is situated as Paramātmā in everyone's heart. But if you become submissive, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Those who are cent percent engaged in the loving service of the Lord, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam, He speaks from within. Then you can understand. He comes out, He exhibits Himself, manifests Himself the spiritual master, as spiritual master. Kṛṣṇa is trying to help you from within, from without. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. You take advantage of it. From within, He, as Paramātmā, caitya-guru, He'll help you. buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. And from without, as spiritual master, He'll give you instructions from the śāstra, from the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, and the Kṛṣṇa's representative, Kṛṣṇa's manifestation, the spiritual master, will rightly inform you. That is the position.

*So we should take advantage of these facilities offered to human society. If we don't take advantage of it, if simply we work hard like dogs and hogs and die like cats and dogs, then what is the value of life? So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started to educate people to understand Kṛṣṇa, that's all. We have no other concoction. There is no invention. Simply we are trying to convince people to understand Kṛṣṇa. So our main subject matter is based on the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we have opened this center in Bombay to give you facilities. Please try to take it. Please come and encourage us, and we shall continue this movement, here in this center, as long as possible.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





720319LE.BOM

Lecture

-

Bombay, March 19, 1972



Prabhupāda: So when I was coming on the (indistinct), one gentleman remarked that "Your, this movement, will help forgetful Indians who are trying to forget God.'' Not only in India, throughout the whole world they are trying to forget God. And this forgetfulness of our relationship with God is material condition. Material life and spiritual life, the difference is that when we forget God, that is material. And when we are fully conscious of God, that is spiritual life. (aside:) Why they are allowed to sit here?



Devotee (1): All the children should leave. All the children should leave?



Prabhupāda: Not leave; just keep them quiet.



Devotee (1): Would all the children kindly be very quiet during tonight's lecture, please. All you parents that have your children here, will you kindly keep them quiet so that Śrīla Prabhupāda can be heard by everyone, please.



Prabhupāda: The real disease is, as it is stated by a Vaiṣṇava poet,



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



When we forget Kṛṣṇa and want to lord it over the material nature, this is called māyā. Māyā means which has no factual existence. So this idea that I shall lord it over the material nature, this is māyā.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



As soon as we think of becoming the Lord and lording it over the Lord's creation, that is called māyā. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just an attempt to revive the original consciousness that "I am not the lord, but I am the servant of the Lord.'' This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So our program is to speak on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the evening and to speak in English, and in the morning we speak on Bhagavad-gītā in Hindi. So we are very much grateful to you that you are kindly trying to cooperate with this movement and hear about Kṛṣṇa. Your cooperation means you please hear about Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa bolo saṅge calo ei-mātra duhkhā cāi. We are simply begging you that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and please come along with us. This much begging we are submitting.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda? The slide show is ready for the children if they would like to go.



Prabhupāda: So why not? Yes?



Devotee (1): There is, in this tent on this side, there is a slide show for the children, which is beginning just now. So if all the children would like to go there, they can see many nice pictures of Kṛṣṇa and of all our activities all over the world. Very nice show. (aside:) It's working. (noise as children leave)



*Prabhupāda: Hm. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So māyā, or illusion... There are two platforms: māyā and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is just like sun. It is said that Kṛṣṇa is just like the sun and māyā is just like the darkness. So whenever there is sun, there is no more darkness. Just like at the present moment it is dark night because the sun is absent from our vision. This is called māyā. Sun is always there in the sky, but when the sun is not visible, this is called darkness. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is present always within our heart, everywhere. It is said in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ. Kṛṣṇa is within the universe, Kṛṣṇa is within your heart, Kṛṣṇa is within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. You can take it from the śāstras, from the Vedas, that Kṛṣṇa is always present everywhere; *therefore He's God, the original Viṣṇu, all*-pervasive. This is also stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā:



*yasyaika*-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

*jīvanti loma*-bilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

*viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā*-viśeṣo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.48]



*The Mahā*-Viṣṇu, from whose breathing period millions of universes are coming out, and when He is inhaling, millions of universes are going within Him, He is called Mahā-Viṣṇu. That Mahā-Viṣṇu is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā. That Brahma, Lord Brahma, who exists only on the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu, that Mahā-Viṣṇu is partial expansion of Kṛṣṇa. This is also confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that there are many manifestations of the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu. Just like candles, there are many candles, each candle has got the illuminating power. Similarly, eko bahu syām. Viṣṇu expands Himself in many, many millions of forms. Those forms are called svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. Svāṁśa, personal expansions, and separated expansions. The separated expansions are we, we living entities. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁso jīva bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. So we are also expansions of Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa, but we are separated. Means we are not personal expansions. The personal expansions is called Viṣṇu-tattva, and the separated expansion is called jīva-tattva. And jīva-tattva is also śakti-tattva. Viṣṇu is śaktimān, and we are śakti. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:



apareyam itas tu viddhi

me prakṛti parām

*jīva*-bhutāṁ mahā-baho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*So we are śakti*-tattva. We are not śaktimān-tattva. It is not corroborated. One who thinks that "I am God,'' śaktimān-tattva, that is false. We are śakti-tattva. Śaktimān means the powerful, one who possesses the power, and śakti means the power or energy. Or one who controls the energy, He is called śaktimān, and the energy acts in different way. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. There are different kinds of, millions of energies, of the śaktimān. So we are energy of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot be Kṛṣṇa. Just like fire and heat or light. Heat is not different from fire, but heat is not fire. If you feel heat, it does not mean that you're touching the fire or that you are being burned. So simultaneously one and different. This philosophy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, acintya-bhedābheda-tattva: simultaneously, inconceivable one and different. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, Vaiṣṇava philosophy. We are neither different nor one, simultaneously, and therefore it is called inconceivable, acintya. In our material conception we cannot think that one thing may be simultaneously one with another and different from another. So this is our position: jīva is śakti-tattva and bhagavān is śaktimān-tattva. But śakti, śaktimān abheda, there is no difference. There are many other examples. Just like the sun and sunlight. Sunlight is not different from the sun, and still the sunlight is not the sun. In the morning, when you find that there is sunlight within your room, you can say that the sun is within your room. You can say that, but the actual sun is far, far away, 93,000,000 miles away from us. So there are so many examples that we are energy of the Supreme Lord, we living entities.



*So the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam therefore begins with the first aphorism of the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the Absolute Truth. Vyāsadeva has given you Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam after his mature experience. He wrote all the Vedic literatures but he was not happy. So when he was not in his mood, he was deeply thinking that "What is the defect in my writings that after writing so many Vedic literatures I am not feeling very happy,'' at that time his spiritual master happened to appear before him, and he explained that why he was not happy. He explained that "You have touched many subject matters about dharma, artha, kāma, and mokṣa-religion, economic development, sense gratification and liberation-but you have not explained about the Supreme Personality of Godhead; *therefore you are feeling unhappy.'' So Vyāsadeva, after writing Vedānta-sūtra, he, by the instruction of Nārada Muni, his spiritual master, he compiled this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is explanation of the Vedānta-sūtra. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is explanation by the same author. Vyāsadeva is the author of the Vedānta-sūtra, and he explains what does he mean by the Sūtras. That is very nice. The author explains his mind. That is perfect explanation. I cannot understand the author's mind. I may imagine something, but you cannot understand the author's mind, what does he want to explain. Therefore Vyāsadeva explains himself about the Vedānta-sūtra: athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The human life, atha, now it is the time for inquiring about the Supreme Absolute Truth. Not in other life. "Other'' means other than the human life: animal life, beast life, plant life, aquatic life, insect life. There are so many, 8,400,000 of species of life. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is our duty to understand and inquire about Brahma. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That Brahma is explained by the author. That Brahma is that from where everything emanates, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Janma, śiti and loi(?). Janma means birth, śiti means stay, and loi(?) means annihilation. So wherefrom everything is coming out, and from whom everything is staying, and after annihilation, where everything is entering*-that is Brahma. Janmādy asya [SB 1.1.1]. Janmādi.

*Now, that source of energy wherefrom everything is emanating, now what is the actual position of that thing? Is it inanimate or animate? Just like some scientists explain the theory of creation, that "There was a chunk that was inanimate. From inanimate things animation has developed under certain conditions.'' That is not possible. We have no such experience that from inanimate things some animation has developed. Sometimes we see, it is called (Sanskrit?). Sometimes we see that from heaps of rice stocked, one scorpion is coming out. It does not mean that the inanimate rice has given birth to a scorpion. No. The actual fact is the scorpion lays down eggs within the rice, and by fermentation they develop, and then it comes out. So there are different types of emanation. That is biological subject matter. But here in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam Vyāsadeva says that origin of the emanation of everything is sentient, conscious. He's not like matter, unconscious. Janmādy asya yataḥ 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. He says that the origin of creation must be conscious, abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means conscious. Unless the origin of creation is conscious, how things are so happening so rightly and nicely? How all the planets are rotating in their orbit, there is no collision, there is no fall down? So there is a great plan. Therefore the creator must be conscious, a person. That is the verdict of Vyāsadeva. And anyone who is also conscious and intelligent can understand. He says, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād. Anvayād: directly and indirectly. Directly He's conscious of the creation, and indirectly, as we are, we are also conscious because we are parts and parcels of the Supreme. Another explanation is that my birth has taken place from my father. My father's birth has taken place from his father. In this way you go on researching-his father, his father, his father. So everyone is a conscious personality. So why the original source of everything should not be conscious personality? This is another thing. Conscious and person. Just like my father is conscious and person, his father is conscious and person. In this way you go on researching according to our Vedic knowledge, you come to Brahma. Brahma is considered to be the original creature within the universe, ādi-kavi. So now this Brahma is also born of the navel lotus of Viṣṇu; *the Viṣṇu, He must be conscious. The Viṣṇu is conscious, abhijñaḥ. So the origin of creation cannot be unconscious. Origin of creation must be conscious. That is the version of the Vedas, Vedic literature. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], this is the Vedānta*-sūtra verse. He must be conscious.

*Now Vyāsadeva is explaining that supreme consciousness. He has already offered his respect, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, janmādy asya yataḥ. Śrīpāda Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented on this oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, that Vasudeva means Kṛṣṇa. Cinma karundaya kṛṣṇāya, he has said in his comment. Oṁ namo bhagavate parama... paramahaṁsa asādhi caraṇa kamala.(?) Paramahaṁsa. This consciousness, supreme consciousness, can be realized by the paramahaṁsa asādhi. The paramahaṁsas can taste what is that supreme consciousness. Paramahaṁsa asādhika caraṇa kamala cinmakarundaya bhaktajana manasa nivasaya śrī kṛṣṇāya. Bhaktajana manasaya nivasaya. That Supreme Absolute Truth, cinmakarundaya, in the peaceful lotus within the heart, He lives there. He lives in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa has explained that Īśvara, the Supreme Lord... He is the Supreme Lord. He says that Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, lives in everyone's heart, and He also lives there as paramātmā, cinmakarundaya. So the paramātmā and the ātmā both are living within the heart. Cinmakarundaya kṛṣṇāya. So Paramātmā is partial expansion of Kṛṣṇa, and jīvātmā is separated part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is the original person, Supreme Personality of Godhead.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Sarvam means the creative deities: Brahma, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. They are also from Kṛṣṇa. The Brahma, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara are called guṇa-avatāras of Kṛṣṇa, incarnation of the material qualities. Brahma is incarnation of the material quality passion, rajo-guṇa, and Viṣṇu is incarnation of the quality sattva-guṇa, and Lord Siva is the incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in tama-guṇa. So the example is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, what is the difference between Lord Siva, Lord Brahma and Lord Viṣṇu. The difference is they are one but they are different manifestations. Just like firewood. In the wood there is fire. So in the beginning there is no fire, but when there is little fire, there is smoke, then there is ignition, flame. But we are concerned with the flame, neither with the wood nor with the smoke. Similarly, although Lord Siva, Lord Viṣṇu and Lord Brahma are different manifestations of the same thing, Absolute Truth, still we are concerned with the fire of Viṣṇu, not with the wood, nor with the smoke. This is the conclusion of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.



*Therefore Vyāsadeva says that the original person, or the Absolute Truth, must be conscious. (Sanskrit). Directly and indirectly He knows everything. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is also said, vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. Kṛṣṇa knows everything, past, present and future. That is also explained in the Fourth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, where Kṛṣṇa said that "Long, long ago I spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god.'' Vivasvān manave prāha imaṁ ivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam. "This version of Bhagavad-gītā, avyayam, inexhaustible knowledge, was first spoken by Me to the sun-god."

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*So at that time Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa for clearance how Kṛṣṇa spoke millions of years ago this Bhagavad-gītā, all about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to the sun-god. He inquired as an ordinary man, "My dear Kṛṣṇa''-Kṛṣṇa was his friend and cousin-brother also*-that "how can I believe that You spoke this Bhagavad-gītā millions and trillions of years ago to the sun-god?'' What was the reply by Kṛṣṇa? The reply was, Kṛṣṇa said, [break] "...have forgotten. I remember all of it.'' "I remember all of it.'' That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa, or God, and the ordinary living entity. We have forgotten. If I ask you what you were doing last evening at this time, you will have to remember, "Yes. I was doing that. I forget.'' But Kṛṣṇa will not forget. Therefore, this is described here, (Sanskrit). He knows everything. [break] "I am sitting in everyone's heart.'' Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. "From Me there is remembrance; jñāna, knowledge; *and forgetfulness.'' Kṛṣṇa... [break] That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



ye yathā māṁ prapadyante

tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham

mama vartmānuvartante

manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ

[Bg. 4.11]



*So Kṛṣṇa is very kind, as I have already explained. Two spiritual identities, namely the ātmā and the Paramātmā, are there within your heart. The Paramātmā is giving you direction. Paramātmā is giving you direction. What kind of direction? Because I wanted to forget Kṛṣṇa, He sometimes gives me direction that "Yes, you forget like this.'' And anyone who wants to remember Kṛṣṇa, to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness, He helps you also. This is Kṛṣṇa. Why? Because we are parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. That is also explained here*-abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means fully independent. The Absolute Truth, the Supreme Person, is fully independent. Not only conscious, abhijñaḥ, but He is independent. But we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore the quality of independence of Kṛṣṇa is there, but in minute quantity. Our independence and Kṛṣṇa's independence is not the same. Just like here is the Arabian Sea. You take a drop of water from the Arabian Sea, you taste it, you'll find it is salty. The salt is there in a drop of the Arabian Sea water, and salt is there in the Arabian Sea. But the quantity of salt in the whole Arabian Sea and the quantity of salt in the drop of water, they are different. Similarly, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, all the qualities of Kṛṣṇa, they are also present within us in minute quantity. And because it is in minute quantity, sometimes it becomes lost. Therefore our consciousness, originally, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our original consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but somehow or other, being in contact with this matter, we have lost our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore this movement is to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our original constitutional position. That I was explaining, quoting the Bengali poet



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



Because somehow or other in material contact we have lost our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it has to be revived. It has to be revived; *then we shall be happy. That is the particular point we want to stress on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement*-revival of the original consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained this as ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanaṁ. If we cleanse our heart, that means if we come to the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanaṁ. This blazing fire of material consciousness will immediately extinguish. That is the process. Every one of us trying to be happy, peaceful and blissful also, but unless we revive our original Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not possible.



*So this movement is very important movement, that we are attempting to revive one's original consciousness. The original consciousness is clean. Just like the water. Originally, when it drops from the clouds, it is distilled water, clean, but as soon as it comes in touch with the muddy earth, it becomes unclean. Similarly, originally our consciousness was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, in touch with the material modes of nature, we have formed different types of consciousness. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmaṣu [Bg. 13.22]. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāraṇam*-the cause, the cause of our tribulation. What is that tribulation? Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. We are taking repeatedly birth, one after another, sometimes very good birth and sometimes very bad, sad asad. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Sometimes I may become Brahma and sometimes I may become the insect or the germ in the stool. That is my position. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Because we have lost the original consciousness, I am being in contact with the material modes of nature, means sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. We are mixing with the different types of material qualities, and as such we are developing different modes of material nature in our consciousness. This consciousness has to be cleared. This consciousness... Even our consciousness is goodness... Just like there are many people who are very charitably disposed: they want to make charity, they want to open schools, that want to open hospitals. That is goodness. That is all right. But still it is material; *it is not spiritual. Similarly, there are others also who are contacting the modes of passion, just like big, big kings, they are very much anxious or very much ambitious to expand their kingdom. This is called association with the modes of passion. Similarly, there are mixture also, mixture of goodness, passion and ignorance. So according to these different types of mixture, or original quality, there are different classes of men. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. These three qualities, when one is developed in the modes of goodness, he is very intelligent or he is brāhmaṇa. When we are developed..., our consciousness is passion, that is called kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. And when it is mixed up, it is called vaiśya. And when it is ignorance, it is called śūdra. These are the divisions. So here Kṛṣṇa says, "If you want to transcend these qualitative situations of material life, then you have to come to Me.'' Because these are..., all these qualities are different modes of material nature, which is called māyā. So we are now compact in the association of māyā, in different qualities, and Kṛṣṇa says that mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you actually want to revive your own consciousness, original consciousness, then you have to surrender. That is being explained by Vyāsadeva here, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. He says, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. Dhīmahi is gāyatrī-mantra. Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi.

*So by brahminical culture, by chanting the gāyatrī*-mantra or the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, gradually we become purified. That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Come to the original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll become happy. Original consciousness, the beginning of original consciousness: to understand one's self as Brahma, not matter. Brahma means spirit. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I'm not matter, I'm spirit soul.'' This is the beginning of spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

brahma bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Unless you come to the platform of brahma bhūta [SB 4.30.20] consciousness, you cannot treat everyone on the same level. It is not possible. The so*-called universal brotherhood is not possible on this material condition of life. Therefore you can see that materially there are so many attempts to find out a platform of universal brotherhood. But there is no universal brotherhood. There is simply platform of enemy. The United Nation is trying to come to the platform of universal brotherhood. When I go to New York, I see the great institution. There are hundreds and thousands of flags. Instead of being united, the flags are increasing, because this universal brotherhood, this equality, fraternity, cannot be established on this material platform. It is not possible. You have to come to the point, to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or brahma bhūta stage, then it is possible.



brahma bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



So everything is scientifically described in the Vedic literature. You haven't got to make any research. It is already there. You have to simply accept it and take it. Then your life will be sublime, your life will be successful. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that, to make everyone's life successful. (Sanskrit) Everyone become happy. That is the mission of everyone. "Everyone'' means those who are devotees. How people will be happy? That is their mission. It is not that we start a mission just to make some money and to fill up our belly, hungry belly. No. It is a mission to see that everyone is happy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the mission. Our ācāryas, just like Śrīla Rūpa Goswāmī, about him Śrinivāsācarya writes,



*nana-śāstra*-vicaraṇaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau

*lokanam hita*-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau saranyakarau

*radha*-kṛṣṇa-padaravinda-bhajananandena-mattalikau

*vande rupa*-sanātana raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*They engaged themselves. They were ministers. Rūpa Goswāmī and Sanātana Goswāmī, they were two great ministers in the government of Pathan kingdom in Bengal. And they resigned the post just for the benefit of the mass of people. They became mendicants, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. So this is the mission of all who is born in India. That is the statement by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu,



*bhārata bhumite haila manuṣya*-janma yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for para-upakāra, for doing good to others*-the best welfare activities in the world. And it is India's duty, it is India's prerogative to take this knowledge and broadcast all over the world for para-upakāra. And actually it is happening. All these European and American boys and girls, they are trying to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously. So it is very scientific, authorized and practical also. So we hope that all of you who are present here will try to cooperate with this movement, and let us meet at least so long as I am here. That will be very beneficial.



Thank you very much.

Devotee: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)





720402LE.SYD



Lecture Excerpt

-

Sydney, April 2, 1972



*Prabhupāda: So if one becomes a Vaiṣṇava under the principles of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he can be lifted at once from any abominable condition, śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Just like śvapacam, the dog*-eater, he becomes variṣṭham, better than a brāhmaṇa. Because why? Because he is a devotee. So unless one becomes a devotee, one has to follow this varṇāśrama-dharma. This is the idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking from the devotional platform. He did not say when He was actually acting as a brāhmaṇa in Navadvīpa. But when He realized... He is realized always, but as ācārya, He says that when one becomes Vaiṣṇava, gopī-bhartuḥ... What is the... Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. He says, "I am not a brāhmaṇa." Then the next question is, What You are? He says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." So when one is realized in that way, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," he does not require to be a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. He transcends. He is postgraduate. So, so long he does not realize that, he has to follow the varṇāśrama-dharma. Otherwise he is not civilized. They are mleccha, yavanas. The most abominable, śvapacam, most abominable. Is that clear? Yes. (end)





720406LE.MEL

Lecture at Christian Monastery

-

Melbourne, April 6, 1972



Prabhupāda: Respectable Fathers, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly giving me a chance to speak about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is going on all over the world with the, especially with the assistance of my American and European disciples. Long, long ago, prehistoric age practically... Because the modern history cannot give account of the world more than three thousand years. But about five thousand years ago a meeting was held at Naimiṣāraṇya. Naimiṣāraṇya is a place in India still existing. Perhaps some of you who might have visited India... This place is situated near Lucknow in the northern India provinces, a very nice place, sanctified place. Still people go and find peace for spiritual meditation. In that tract of land, Naimiṣāraṇya, from time immemorial this place was especially recognized for spiritual meeting. So there was a meeting of great saintly persons, and Sūta Gosvāmī, one of the disciples of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he was selected the president to speak on Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



So the question from the saintly persons... There were many questions. One of the question was that "After departure of Kṛṣṇa, who is in trust of dharma and jñāna?" Dharma means religion, and jñāna means knowledge. Because Kṛṣṇa, when He appeared on this planet, He said that,

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

*dharma*-saṁsthāpanārthāya

sambhavāmi yuge yuge

[Bg. 4.8]



*"I appear in every millennium." According to Vedic scripture, Kṛṣṇa appears on this planet in one day of Brahmā. And Brahmā's duration of life is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is a very, very long period. His one day, daytime, twelve hours, from morning to evening, is described sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Sahasra-yuga. Yuga, this age. Just like this is, according to Vedic culture, this yuga is called Kali-yuga. So there are four yugas: Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga, and Kali-yuga. So the aggregate of all these yugas is about forty three hundred thousands of years. And if you multiply by one thousand, then that becomes Brahmā's one day only, twelve hours. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ. So similarly, he has got one night also, and similarly, one day and night, then one month, then one year. In this way he lives for one hundred years. So during this period of daytime, Kṛṣṇa appears once. That we learn from the Vedic literature. So Kṛṣṇa said that what is His mission to come here? Kṛṣṇa is God. He does not require to come here, but He comes to serve some purpose. If God wants to come, nobody can check. Sometimes people question that "Why God should come?" So our answer is, "Why God should not come?" If He is all-powerful, who can check Him to come here? If we say that God cannot come, that means God becomes under our rules and regulation. So according to Vedic scripture, God comes, and He says personally why He comes: yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Whenever there is discrepancy in the prosecution of religious principles, He comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, abhyutthānam adharmasya. And whenever there is discrepancies in religious procedure, irreligious activities increases. That is natural. Whenever there is lenient government, the rogues and thieves will increase. It is natural. And if the government is very strict, then rogues and thieves cannot become very prominent. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He has got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]*-for giving protection to the devotees, to the faithful, and for killing the demons. So Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, He exhibited these two things. Perhaps you have seen our picture of Nārāyaṇa, or Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu has got four hands. In two hands He has got lotus flower and conchshell, and in the other two hands He has got a club and a disc. The disc and club is meant for vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, for killing the demons and the miscreants. And the conchshell and the lotus flower is meant for giving benediction and blessings to the devotees.



*So in the Bhagavad*-gītā we understand about Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavad-gītā is a well-read book all over the world. In any country you will find edition of Bhagavad-gītā by the language of the country. So in this Bhagavad-gītā we find that Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction about what is dharma, religion. He says... And at the end of His instruction He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], that "You give up other types of so-called religious principles. You simply surrender unto Me." So in another place in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Religion means the codes of God." Just like the state gives us some rules and regulation to live, and one who follows the rules and regulation or the laws of the state, he is called good citizen, and those who do not follow, they are called outlaws or rogues or so many things. Similarly, religion is very simple thing. It is not cumbrous. Simple thing. If you take it simply, religion means, our definition of religion is, to accept the orders of God. That's all. It doesn't matter what religion you are following. You may be Christian, I may be Hindu, that may be Muhammadan, but the test of religion is how one has developed his God consciousness. That is the definition given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. There are different types of religion, but the best of them... Sa vai puṁsāṁ para. Para means superior, the best. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. Adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaja is another description of God. Adha, "Where material senses cannot reach." Adhokṣaja. Direct experiment knowledge cannot know God. There are many places... In the Bhagavad-gītā also, it is said,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*"Out of many millions of persons, one is interested to make his life successful. And out of millions of successful persons, one can very rarely understand what is God." That is the statement in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Actually, we find that people are generally interested with economic development, sense gratification. That's all. At least, I am traveling all over the world; I see people are very busy for searching out food and shelter. But according to Vedic scripture, it is said that food and shelter is already there, given by God. Because there are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, human beings are very few, 400,000 species of life in different planets. And out of them, civilized men, they are very, very few. But God is giving food to everyone actually.



*In the Vedas it is stated that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) "God is the supreme living being amongst all living beings." Nityo nityanam: "And He's the supreme eternal amongst all the eternals." We are also eternal. Because we are part and parcel of God, we have got all the qualities of God, but because we are minute part and particle of God, therefore all the qualities of God are there in minute particle. The example is just like the ocean. Ocean water is vast, and drop of ocean water, you analyze chemically, you will find all the chemical ingredients in that drop of water as there is in the water. The difference is of quantity. In the drop of water there is salt, and in the vast mass water in the ocean there is also salt. But the salt containing in the ocean water is very, very big quantity than the salt containing in the drop of water. And another example can be given. These are Vedic examples. Just like the fire and the sparks of the fire. We have seen, experienced. When there is fire, sometimes there is some sound, "Phut!" immediately hundreds and thousands of sparks coming out. Now these sparks, they are also fire, but not as big as the original fire. But they are fire. Therefore our philosophy, we, following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu: acintya bhedābheda*-tattva. The difference is simultaneously we are one with God and different from God. One in quality. God is spirit; we are also spirit. He is Supersoul; *we are individual. But God is great, and we are minute fragment. That is difference. Therefore, simultaneously we are one and different, one in quality but different in quantity. You accept also, "God is great." And we say that nobody can be greater than God, neither anyone can be equal to God. That is our philosophy. Asama urdhva. Asama. Sama means equal. Nobody can be equal to God. That is not possible. God is one. You may have some understanding that in the Vedic literature there is mention of many demigods. But the demigods, they are also living entities, a little more powerful than the human beings. That's all. Just like here, in this world also, we find somebody is more powerful than others. But that does not mean he is God. God is supreme, all*-powerful. Here you may be a little more powerful then me, but another may be found who is more powerful than you, another you can find more powerful than him. In this way go on. There is no limit. Anyone, you will find somebody lower than him and higher than him. But nobody can say that "I am the supreme." Nobody can say. That is not possible.

*According to our Vedic literature, Brahma, the creator of this universe, he is considered to be the highest creature within this universe, but he is also not God. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. God instructed him to create. Ādi-kavi. He is the original creature within this material world. Somebody may question that "If he is original creature, than how he got this knowledge of creating?" So that is explained. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Hṛdā: "From the heart God instructed." God is situated in everyone's heart. That is called paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. God has got three features: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Brahman is impersonal feature, and then Paramātmā, the localized feature, and Bhagavān, the personal feature.

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*The Absolute Truth is one, advaya*-jñāna, without any duality, but according to our capacity, we realize the Absolute Truth from three different angles of vision. So one of them is realization of God in His impersonal Brahman feature, and another realization is to realize Him... Generally, the jñānīs, the philosophers, the speculators, by dint of their own knowledge, they realize the Absolute Truth in His impersonal Brahman feature. And those who are yogis, they realize this God, the Supreme Lord, as Paramātmā within the heart. And those who are devotees, they realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the Supreme Person. But the Paramātmā and impersonal Brahman and this person God, they are all the same thing.



*The example is given: just like the sunshine, the sun planet, and within the sun planet, the sun-god. According to Vedic religion, Vedic conception, every planet contains living entities. That is also very natural to conclude because within this material world, everything is made of five elements, gross: earth, water, fire, air, and sky. These are gross elements. And the subtle elements are mind, intelligence, and ego. So in some of the planets earth is prominent, some of the planets water is prominent, some of the planets the fire is prominent. In this way these five elements, gross elements... Every planet in the material world is made of these five gross elements. So just like here also we can experience that some of the living entities, just like the fishes, they are living in the water very peacefully. But if you are put into the water, you will not be comfortable. Perhaps you will die. Similarly, if the fishes are taken*-that also we experienced-from the water, they will die on the land. Here we can see that some of the living entities, they can live comfortably within water. Some of the living entities, they can live comfortably on land, some of them in the air. Similarly, why not some of them in fire? Because after all, fire is also one of the material elements. So according to Vedic scripture there is life in the sun planet also. They have got fiery bodies. That's all. That is the difference. Just like the fishes here we see they have got watery bodies, similarly, one may have got fiery body. From logic, from argument, we cannot deny that. So this example, that in the sun planet there is a predominating deity or president or god, whatever you call... He is called sun-god, and his name is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, Vivasvān. His name is also there. And Kṛṣṇa says,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*Kṛṣṇa says that "This instruction, bhakti*-yoga instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, was first imparted by Me to the sun-god, Vivasvān." That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā.



*Now, it is a question of believe or not believe. That is a different thing. We believe. We take it. Because it is said by Kṛṣṇa, we take it, accept it. And we apply our reason also, not blindly take it, that if I see that in every planet, in our this planet there is a president... Formerly, in this planet also, there was only one king, and he was ruling over all the planets. Gradually, people have divided their interests and become different nations. From Vedic history we can see... I understand... Somebody was telling me that in Australia also there is some Śiva temple here. Who was telling me that? He was telling me. So the archaeological investigation has found so many relics, and in the Vedic literature we also find the mention of all the island, sapta-dvīpa, seven islands. Seven islands means Asia, Europe, North America, South America, Africa, Australia, and Oceania. These are mentioned already in the Vedic literature. So it is not that the world was not known to Vedic culture. It was fully known. And one king-he was that Mahārāja Pṛthu-he was the only one ruler all over the world, and he was ruling over these seven islands-that is mentioned-although his residential quarter was in the Brahmāvarta, the piece of land between the rivers Yamunā and Ganges. That tract of land is still considered a very sanctified land. Practically all the Vedic culture is there still. So the example is that as there is a chief man or king... He is also supposed to be God's representative. God gives power to somebody to look after the interest of the inhabitants of that particular planet. Similarly, there is a king in the sun planet. We may call him sun*-god or something like, but there is a predominating personality. He has got his personal effulgence, body. Just like fire has got effulgence, heat and light, similarly, he is the fiery god or fiery person, and his effulgence is spread all over the universe.

*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said,

*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñayā bhramatisambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*It is the description of the sun planet. The sun planet is described as the eyes of all other planets. Yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. That's a fact. Unless there is sunrise, you cannot see. You may be very proud of your seeing, "Oh, I want to see," but we do not know that our seeing power is limited and conditioned. Unless there is sunrise these eyes are useless. Just like at the present moment, at night, we cannot see even four yards. So what is the value of these eyes? It is conditional. If there is sunrise, then we can see. That condition is made by God. Therefore in the Upaniṣad it is said, "When God sees, you can see. When God walks, you can walk." These are the description in the Upaniṣad. Practically, that is the fact. We are completely helpless, simply dependent upon God. The word that "Not a single blade of grass moves without the sanction of God," that's a fact. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, it is said, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am living in everyone's heart." Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: [Bg. 15.15] "From Me there is remembrance and forgetfulness." We sometimes forget and sometimes remember. That is by God's grace. We are practically under the... Not exactly directly, but through His agent, the material agent.



So there are so many things to be understood about God. So we are preaching God consciousness throughout the whole world just to study the science of God. So please do not take us as something sectarian. Just like the science of mathematics or any science you take, that is not localized in one place. Any advanced student, if he wants to know about that science practically, he can go to some country or..., either to preach or to learn. So our coming and going throughout the whole world... We are interested to enlighten people about the science of God. That is our business. And our test of religion is how one has developed God consciousness or love of God. Practically throughout the whole world they are rejecting God. You know also very well. In England there are many, many churches, they are vacant now, redundant. And they are..., in the Parliament they have passed law that these redundant churches can be sold for any other purpose. So it doesn't matter whether one is Christian, one is Hindu, or one is Muslim. Our simple request is that whatever you may be, you make cultivation of God consciousness. That is our program. Scientifically try to understand what is God. And if you consult Vedic literature you'll get very accurate, scientific, authentic information.

*So if anyone is serious to understand God, so there is no objection. Just like if one is serious to understand some particular science, he goes to some other university in other country. That does not mean that person is fallen. No. He is searching after that particular scientific knowledge. Similarly, our request is... We invite everyone that "There is great necessity of God consciousness at the present moment throughout the whole world. Without God consciousness, all qualification are useless." That is a Vedic verse: aprāṇasyaiva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka*-rañjanam. Just like this body. Because there is a minute particle of God's part and parcel, the soul, this body is so valuable. One is "Sir such-and-such," or "Lord such-and-such," and big scientist, big philosopher. Why? Because that spark of God's parcel, part and parcel, is there. As soon as that particle is gone, this body is useless. It may be a body of "Sir such-and-such" or "Lord such-and-such," but it is useless. It is simply a lump of matter. But people are giving more importance to this body, which is nothing but lump of matter. But they have no information. I have traveled so many countries, universities also. There is not a single institution where there is a department where scientific knowledge is being given about understanding God or soul. That is not a very good sign for human civilization. Human civilization is especially meant for understanding God. Therefore in any human civilized society there is system of religion. Religion means, as I have already explained, to abide by the orders of God. It may be a little different from one country to another. Just like in the political state management also, it is not exactly the same. But the obedience to the state is everywhere. The state may be, the constitution may be little different, but the obedience to the state is absolute necessity. Similarly, religion may be different according to time, country, position, understanding, but the obedience to God must be there, obedience to God. Otherwise it is not human civilization.

So this is our program of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We invite all learned scholars, priests, philosophers to combine together and save the world from this falldown, without God consciousness. It is not good at all. That is our request. So I think you all respectable priests and Fathers will kindly help me in this mission, and I shall be very much obliged to you.

Thank you very much. (aside:) Water.

Hanumān: Would you like them to ask you some questions?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hanumān: If you have any question you would like to ask His Divine Grace, you can ask on the subject matter of the lecture.



Guest (1): Your Divine Grace, you referred to the body as simply matter. Do you believe in a life after death for the body, the human body?



Hanumān: "Do you believe in a life after death for the body?" [break]



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly. This is experienced in this life also. Just like you had a body of a child. That body is finished, but you are existing. You can remember that you had a body of a child, you had a body of a boy, but that body of the child, body of the boy is no longer existing. You are in a different body, but you know that you are existing. That is the proof that after this body, you will have another body. This is the proof. There is no difficulty to understand. As I am still living in spite of my changing childhood body, babyhood body, boyhood body, youthhood body, so naturally it should be concluded when I give up this body... Actually, I don't give up. The body... There are two kinds of bodies. This is gross body made of the five elements: earth, water, fire air and... And there is subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. Just like we have got shirt and coat. So when we give up this gross body, we are carried by the subtle body to another gross body. So I am not giving up. Actually, I am not giving up this body. I am giving up this... Just like sometimes you give up the coat, but your underwear remains, and you take another coat or..., similarly, my, the subtle body will remain with me so long I am not emancipated or liberated from material condition. So presently when I give up this body, so I am carried by the subtle mind. And at the time of death, the condition of my mind will carry me to a particular type of body. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies. We may accept any of them according... That will be given by superior authority. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Just like in huge, big establishment, management, a man is promoted by the superior authority or sometimes he is degraded, similarly, in this form of human body we have got intelligence to understand about God, about ourself, our relationship with God. If we don't utilize this body for this purpose, there is every possibility to be glided down in the animal kingdom.



Guest (2): What has been written(?) about the future of civilization? Will we have a happy human family ever on the earth, or will there always be conflict between...



Prabhupāda: That we are experiencing. This godless civilization is... There is no peace, although we are improving... Just like I was talking yesterday. We have discovered this airplane, but we have given another chance of danger. What is that? Skyjack? Devotee: Highjack.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. We are making something for our convenience, but we are creating something else which is inconvenient. So this is due to godless civilization. But if we become God conscious, then our progress of civilization will be very peaceful and happy. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā mano-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ: "Anyone who has got devotion to the Lord, he is qualified with all the good qualities." Just like you are God conscious, so you have invited us to hear because you..., the good qualities are there. So without God consciousness there cannot be any good qualities. We are trying to educate people to be honest, to be gentle, fair-dealing, but actually, the result is people are becoming dishonest, miscreant, rogue, thief, due to (lack of) God consciousness. Just like in the airport, all gentlemen are searched out. What does it mean? That every one of us (is) dishonest. That is to be understood. So what the education has produced? Simply dishonest men. Why? Because godlessness. That's all. And they are trying to become... Every state is trying to become secular: "Don't talk of God. Don't talk of God." Then what you are? That is animal society. The animal society has no talk of God. There is only talk of how to fill up the belly. That's all. That is the business of hog. Śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujām means the hogs, the stool-eaters. The stool-eater is also working very hard day and night and gratifying senses. So does the human civilization is meant for imitating the hogs and dogs to work very hard day and night and gratify the senses? That's all? This is the only program at the present moment.



*So it doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Hindu. People must be raised to God consciousness scientifically. Otherwise it is doomed. It is not progress. It is already doom. They are simply inviting war after few years. In America, in New York, there is United Nations. They are spending millions of dollars every month, but they cannot stop war. Simply the flag is increasing. That's all. Because it is godless. They may talk all big, big words in the assembly, but at heart they are all dishonest, politicians. And God consciousness means cleansed heart. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. "I am servant of God." That is wanted. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. This is the definition given in Vedic literature, that "If anyone develops God consciousness, then all the good qualities will develop automatically. And you give him all kinds of education, but if he is godless, it is all useless." That is compared with decorating the dead body. Just like dead body. A dead body is decorated. So it may be a satisfaction for the relatives, but what is the use of it, decorating a dead body? Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ japas tapaḥ kriyaḥ: "Great nationality, great work, great achievement, minus bhagavad-bhakti, God consciousness, is just like decorating the dead body." That's all. What is the use of decorating the dead body? Because actually this body is dead. As soon as the soul is away from this body, it is a lump of matter. So when the soul is off from the body, if somebody decorates that dead body, what is use? It is simply concoction. That's all. Therefore according to Vedic system, as soon as a body is dead, there is no question of decorating. Immediately burn it and finish. Make it into ashes. That's all. The body has no importance. Real, the soul is important, the living force. So we have no education about that living force, and the original living force is Kṛṣṇa, or God. So we have no information. So therefore this education is very, very essential, at least at the present moment. You may educate in any way-Christian way, Hindu way, Muslim-but educate all the people about God consciousness. Otherwise there is doom.

Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? At the beginning you mentioned a question. Śukadeva Gosvāmī was asked, "If, after the disappearance of Kṛṣṇa..."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Munayo sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka*-maṅgalam. When a question about Kṛṣṇa, or God, he congratulated them, "My dear sages, your question is very welcome because it is the question of God." So there may be questions, but every sincere man must question what is God and try to learn it. That will bring auspicity all over the world. Simply in schools, colleges, in business, in assembly, in society there must be some discussion about God. Then it will be very much auspicious for all the world. There must be some question. The question may be offered in the beginning, but if the question is sincere and if he takes the answer sincerely, then he will understand about God. So therefore he welcomed,



munayo sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ

*bhavadbhir loka*-maṅgalam

*yat kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa*-sampraśno

yenātmā suprasīdati



*"My dear sages, you have inquired about Kṛṣṇa. It is very welcome because it is auspicious." Kṛṣṇa*-sampraśno. "And by question and answer in this subject matter, you'll feel satisfaction." Yenātmā samprasīdati. Simply by question-answer, you feel satisfaction. And when you understand, oh, you feel the supreme satisfaction, the bliss. But simply in the period of question and answer you feel satisfaction. Yenātmā suprasīdati. Therefore in schools, colleges, assemblies, societies-everywhere-there must be questions of "What is God? What I am? What is my relation?" These should be answered scientifically and understood scientifically. Then there will be peace. Otherwise there is no possibility.



Guest (3): Your Divine Grace, we can know something about God, either through our sense knowledge or true concept, etc., but how do we know God, if I can make that distinction? You know? God isn't something that can be sensed and He isn't something that can be grasped by the finite mind. The infinite, as you said... But how do we know God?



Prabhupāda: Yes. God is unapproachable by your mental concoction. But there is another process: if you understand God by this the paramparā system. Just like on this roof there is some sound, and every one of us making some suggestion what is the sound: "This may be like this. This may be like that. This may be like that." This is one process of knowledge, to understand the unseen by speculation. This is one. It may be successful or may not be successful. There is no certainty. But if somebody from the roof says, "The sound is due to this," then our knowledge is perfect. Similarly, if we speculate about God, who is Adhokṣaja, who is beyond the range of our mind and speculation, then it is very... Then we can come to the conclusion of Brahman realization, impersonal God, no more than. But if we hear from God or His representative, then we get perfect knowledge of God.



*Guest (3): Well even in revealed religion, where we have the scripture, say, a Vedic scripture or Jewish or Christian scripture, it's still being put into human words and therefore become circumscribed again. And so it seems to me that you've still got the same problem even in revealed religion*-that it's not God. It's something short of God.



Prabhupāda: No. Just like in the Bible it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? It is fact. It is fact. Now you find out who created this universe. If you deny this fact, "No. God does not create," then you explain how it was created. So there is no difference between Bible and Vedic literature. We accept also, "God created." But in the Vedic literature you will find how God created. That you'll find. So if you are actually serious to understand how God created, why don't you come to Vedic literature? That is the duty of every student. If you are after the knowledge, why should you stick to one particular place or...? If the knowledge is available in other places, you must have it. That is inquisitiveness, seriousness. But if you say, "No. We are Christian. We have studied Bible. That is all. We do not touch," I don't think that is very nice conclusion. You remain Christian, but what is the harm to study other literatures where more informations are there? That is quite reasonable. We are not asking you to become Hindus. We simply want to, everyone, that you become God conscious. That is our mission. Our mission is not that to convert. What is the use of converting? If my habits are the same... Suppose I am Hindu. I become Christian, but my habits are not changed. Then what is the use of becoming from Hindu or Christian or to Christian or Hindu?



*Now, our principle is that if you want to understand God, then you must be sinless, because God is pure. Anyone who is sinful, he cannot understand God. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

*yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvanda*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ



*That is the secret. You see? If your eyes covered with something, how you can see things perfectly? Similarly, we have got many dirty things within our heart due to our so many sinful activities. That should be cleansed. Then immediately, as the mirror, when it is clean you can see your face nicely... But if the mirror is full, overcast with dust, you cannot. Therefore there is a process. We must adopt this process. So anyone who is adopting this process, they are understanding very quickly the science of God. The sum and substance of this process (is) that we should be freed from sinful activities. That's all. Then God realization will be very easy. But if you surrender to God fully, then God will help you to become free from all sinful activities. There are two processes. Either you try to become sinless by your efforts, but if you think that you are unable, then you simply surrender to God, and He will help you. He will help you. He says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



*One thing is that nobody can understand God if he is sinful. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that "You surrender unto Me. I shall help you how to get rid of the resultant action of your sinful life." So to approach God, either you become sinless by your own efforts or you simply surrender unto God, and He will help you to become sinless. Whichever you like. He is giving full freedom. He is asking that you surrender. He is not forcing. God can force you-He is all-powerful-but He doesn't interfere with your independence. Because we are part and parcel of God*-God is fully independent-so we have got also little particle of independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, disobey the words of God, we become sinful.



Guest (4): When one becomes sinless, would he then experience the indwelling of God?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. That is the platform of understanding God.



Guest (5): And this indwelling of God urges one to go out into the world and other people in love, a love which not only seeks to...



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. If you are serious to understand God, then God will help you also. He is within you. He'll help you. Yes.



Guest (6): Swami, in the Christian history, one of the people that many of us look up to was a man called Francis of Assisi, and he talks about knowing God, and he rates it up with experiences such as on the occasion on which he embraced the leper. And he says, "If this, we turn to our fellow man with an attitude like this, then we are not reaching God, or God consciousness." And this is in line with one of the central teachings of the Christian scriptures, which is that if any man says he loves God and does not love his neighbor, then that man is a liar.



Prabhupāda: No. If actually one loves God, he must love everyone. That is the sign. That is the sign. Just like my heart is now thirsty. I am quenching with drinking water and putting here. So as soon as put this water here, immediately the energy distributed all over the body. So a God conscious person cannot be neglectful or envious to anyone. That is the test. This is test. Sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. All good qualities. So this is a good quality, love your neighbor, to give them service. So if actually one person is God conscious, he must be sympathetic with the troubles of his neighbor, or anyone, not only human being. Animals also. They are also living entities. A God conscious person has no discrimination between human being and animal or trees or plants because they are also living entities.



Guest (7): Swamijī, an old guest has been wandering around. He's called Fred Robinson. He's been forecasting doom to happen very shortly for the human race and says that it is far too hopeless to try and grab for the spiritual plane until one goes back to the land, back to simple living and where one just makes one's task to supply food for the children, the new children of the new age. And then yoga and the spiritual disciplines will flow much easier. What would you say to that?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We are also distributing food. Yes. In our Māyāpur daily we are distributing food to two thousand, three thousand. So that is one of our program, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and distributing prasādam. We are distributing... When I started this movement I was cooking myself and distributing prasāda. But we do not discriminate that "He is needy..." Everyone is needy. So actually, everyone is in need of spiritual understanding. So by distributing food, the spiritual food, simply by eating, he will be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if he does not do anything. But actually, we are inviting persons to come, sit down, chant with us Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and take prasādam and go home. That's all. This is our program. So prasādam is already included. And there is the question of needy men. So we invite any needy man to come and join with us, and we shall feed him. That's all. We invite anyone. But they do not like to come to us to chant. That is the difficulty. "Oh, we'll have to go there and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So they are afraid. So what can I do? We invite everyone, "Please come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, dance with us, and when you are hungry, take some food. We are prepared to give you." So our program is very easy. And actually, these boys and girls, they were not advised in the beginning to become my initiated student. I simply invited, "You please come." I was chanting in the Tompkinson Park in New York, and many of them were coming. So I invited them, "Please come with me. Take some prasādam." So they used to take that. In this way, gradually, they developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and after some time they proposed, "Swamijī, make me your disciple," initiation. So I said that "You have to follow the rules and regulations." They agreed, "No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. If you are prepared, then I accept you." They are prepared. They given up. I accept them. That's all. Yes.



Guest (8) Swamijī, something you said was the connection between the necessity for obedience to the state and necessity for their obedience to God. To take an example that occurs to many young man in this country, and I suppose in America, the question of military service arises where the state demands their absolute obedience, and many young people feels this clashes with their obedience to God. How do you advise people to resolve this sort of conflict?



Śyāmasundara: About the draft. If one has to obey the state and go to war, how is that the same as obeying God?



*Prabhupāda: Well, God consciousness does not prohibit war, but it must be for the right cause. Just like in Bhagavad*-gītā we see that the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā was given to Arjuna in the battlefield. And in the beginning Arjuna did not like to fight. He was a good, good man, religious man, devotee. Naturally, he was not inclined to fight with his relatives, kinsmen. He said, "Kṛṣṇa, the opposite side, they are all my brothers and nephews and fathers and grandfathers. So there is no use of fighting like this, to kill them and take the... Let... Let them enjoy." That was his conclusion. But Kṛṣṇa induced them, induced Arjuna, "No. This is the right cause. You must fight." So similarly, war is not always bad. Nothing is bad, nothing is good, unless it is used for God. That's it. Our philosophy is everything is good. God is all-good. So if He advises to fight, that is also good. But we shall depend on the discretion of God. If God wants us to fight, then we shall fight. If God wants us to stop fight, then we shall not fight. Because we are surrendered to God, so whatever God orders, we have to do. That's all. We don't say, "This is good; this is bad." Whatever God says, that is good. What God does not say, prohibit, that is bad. This is our conclusion.



*Guest (8): The question remains of how is one to tell what God says, and many, many people have been brought up to believe that you find what God says by asking what does the state say. Now, as I understand the Christian tradition, it was quite different to that. The conscience coming from God can often bring you into conflict with the state, as Jesus himself found. Now, I think I understand what you are saying about the Bhagavad*-gītā and Kṛṣṇa can say a certain war is good because it's right. But in today's circumstances the question still remains of can you find what God thinks or God says by finding out what the state wants and...



*Prabhupāda: God says... For the time being you are not in direct touch with God, but you can follow the Biblical instruction. God's agent, Lord Jesus Christ, says*-you follow that. The ten commandments are there. Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So you should not kill. Why should you kill? You follow this instruction, God's representative. Then you gradually develop your God consciousness.



Guest (8): But you haven't answered the question about the conflict between the state and God. You haven't taken that at all.



Upendra: He's giving an analogy that as one must follow... He wasn't saying that necessarily we have to follow all the dictates of the state. Prabhupāda was giving the analogy just as one follows the dictate of the state, one also must follow the dictates of God. I believe that was the analogy. It wasn't that he was supporting the dictates of the state or in accordance with... [break]



Hanumān: So we thank you very much for your kindness to receive our spiritual master(?), and we will request you to come and visit us. We have a temple, 14 Bernard Street in (indistinct). You're always welcome. We are... There is not many place you go in town, you go in some street, go in a store, they will ask you some money. They will give you some service but they will ask you some money. But you can come at 14 Bernard St., you can come, eat with us, and pass the day with us, talk with us. We are your servant. So you are most welcome. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Guest: We would like to thank Swami Prabhupāda for his kindness and extreme gentleness in coming to us. We've listened with respect to the words of life (indistinct) warmed my heart, anyway, and gave me hope for a family of human brothers to which we belong. I think we are closer to one another now, to the devotees of the temple. It's very beautiful coming here tonight, and I certainly feel that this little meeting, the human brothers under a (indistinct), of particular inspiration or coming in contact with a God whom we're all reaching out for but who has many faces. Thank you very much.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





720414LE.AUC

Town Hall Lecture

-

Auckland, April 14, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Śrīman Hanumān*-prasāda Gosvāmī, he has spoken something about Kṛṣṇa's representative. So naturally, question may be raised that how I became Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago. I am recently born, say, seventy-six years ago. How I became Kṛṣṇa's representative, this question may be raised. But the answer is also there, ready. We have got a disciplic succession: from Kṛṣṇa, Brahmā; from Brahmā, Nārada; from Nārada, Vyāsadeva; from Vyāsadeva, Madhvācārya; from Madhvācārya, so many disciplic succession. Later, five hundred years ago, Mādhavendra Purī, in the line of Madhvācārya. Then his disciple, Īśvara Purī, his disciple, Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya we consider Him Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He also accepted a spiritual master, Īśvara Purī. So Lord Caitanya is everyone's spiritual master, but for the sake of formality, He also accepted a spiritual master so that others may learn that this is essential.



*In the Vedic scriptures, Kathopaniṣad, it is said, tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Upaniṣad, whatever is spoken in the Upaniṣad that is gospel truth. That is the system of understanding transcendental knowledge, veda-pramāṇa, evidence from the Vedas. According to Vedic system, amongst the learned scholars, if one presents Vedic evidences, then his position is strong. Just like in law court, two lawyers are arguing. One lawyer who quotes from the lawbook various bona fide quotations, the judgment is given in his favor because that is authorized. Similarly, a Vedic statement is accepted in Indian spiritual society. There are hundreds and thousands of men who are still dedicated. Practically the whole population of India, they are dedicated to spiritual life. Perhaps you may not know, but anyone who has taken birth in India, he has got a natural inheritance of spiritual life. Unfortunately, at the present moment the leaders are under wrong impression that in India, being too much spiritually inclined, its material advancement has been checked. But material advancement does not become hampered by spiritual knowledge. That is a wrong impression. Rather, if you become spiritually advanced, your material necessities will be very nicely adjusted. That is the injunction, Bhagavad-gītā, yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-da. Yoga... Spiritual life means yoga. So yogic life can be very nicely successful if you adjust your material necessities of life. If you become extravagant so far your material necessities of life is concerned, then you cannot make successful in yogic life.

*So there are so many rules and regulations. Those who are interested in yoga, you will find in the authorized books, yoga indriya*-saṁyamaḥ: "The aim of yogic power, yogic success, is to control the senses." Our senses in this material world have been described as venomous serpents. Indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Kāla-sarpa, cobra, black cobra. So these indriyas are like that. Indriya means senses. As soon as touches, immediately it makes him poisonous. And that is the cause of our material conditional life. The more we are indulging unrestrictedly in sense gratification, we are becoming more and more entangled. Therefore those who are very much addicted to the bodily necessities of life, for them this haṭha-yoga system... Haṭha-yoga system means yama, niyama, aṣṭāṅga-yoga. It is called aṣṭāṅga-yoga. Yama, niyama, āsana, prāṇāyāma, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, pratyāhāra, samādhi. These things are in the aṣṭāṅga-yoga. The first thing is yama-niyama. One must have regulated life. That is called yama-niyama. Then practice āsana. There is mechanical process of sitting which will help you; concentration of the mind, āsana. Then praṇāyāma, concentration of the mind. Then meditation. So meditation is not so easy thing. Unless you practice the preliminary necessities of meditation, you cannot concentrate. Even if you sit down closing your eyes, either you will sleep or you will think of other things which are more important, you think, more important in your life. So the yoga system is practically not very helpful. Helpful means we cannot execute this system very nicely.

*So this paramparā system, the subject I was discussing, that how I become the representative of Kṛṣṇa, it is not very difficult. Everyone can become a representative of Kṛṣṇa provided he exactly presents what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Just like a peon, he is also representative of the postal department, ordinary peon. How he becomes representative of the whole postal system? If he delivers your letter or money order without mishandling it, as it is. You have... Some friend has sent you some money order. He gives you the paper, you sign, and he pays you. But if he pilfers the method(?), then he is no longer representative. He becomes thief, rogue. So representative of Kṛṣṇa is also in the same way. If you present Kṛṣṇa's word as it is, without pilfering, without any adulteration, then you become Kṛṣṇa's representative. There is no difficulty. But, unfortunately, people want to show their scholarship, that "I understand Bhagavad-gītā from this angle of vision." Why should you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā from a different angle of vision? The first preference should be given to the author. The author has given you some knowledge, so he has got some particular aim and objective. So why should you change that? You have no right to change that. If you want to speak something from your side, you write your own book. Why should you take advantage of the popular book of Bhagavad-gītā and misrepresent it? That is the fun. You see? There are about six hundred different types of editions commenting on Bhagavad-gītā. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, all these six hundred editions in different, studied from different angle of vision, they are all absurd and nonsense. It is very difficult. People have been misled by the so-called commentaries. There is no need of unnecessarily commenting on certain things. There is no necessity. Commentary or interpretation required when things are not very clear. Then you can suggest, "The meaning may be like this." But when the things are clear, why should you comment? There is no necessity of comment. Just like, for example-this is also from Sanskrit scholar's example*-that gaṅgāyaṁ ghoṣapalli. Gaṅgāyam: "On the Ganges there is a neighborhood which is known as Ghoṣapalli." Now, this statement is in your front. So one may question that "The river Ganges is water. How there can be a neighborhood which is known as Ghoṣapalli? On the water how there can be a quarter or neighborhood of human habitation?" You can question that. Gaṅgāyaṁ ghoṣapalli. Then the interpretation should be, "No, not on the Ganges. 'On the Ganges' means 'on the bank of the Ganges.' " This interpretation is nice. When one cannot understand clearly, there is interpretation. But when the matter is clear... Just like sunlight. The sunlight, sunshine, does it require your lamp to show the sunlight? The sunlight is itself so illuminous that everyone can understand, "This is sunlight." If somebody brings some lamp, "I will show you the sun," sun is already visible. Why your lamp is required? So these unauthorized commentators, they bring some lamp to show the sunlight of Bhagavad-gītā. That is their business.

*Therefore people have been misled. There is no question. Just like in the beginning Bhagavad*-gītā says,

*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*This is very clear. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre. Kurukṣetra is a place which is still a place of pilgrimage. The Hindus, those who are followers of Vedic rites, they go there. They perform religious rituals. And there is Vedic injunction, kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret, dharma yajet, like that, that "If you want to perform some religious rituals, better go to Kurukṣetra." So Kurukṣetra is from the Vedic age. Millions of years, from time immemorial, it is a dharma-kṣetra. And still it is there. There is a station, railway station, called Kurukṣetra near Delhi, about hundred miles away from Delhi. So these are facts. Why there should be interpretation? These are facts. Why there should be... It is clear. Dharma-kṣetra is... Kurukṣetra is dharma-kṣetra, and historical fact is māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. Two groups of cousin brothers, they wanted to fight to settle up. Formerly the war was declared-the leader of the war, if he is killed, then the other party is victorious. Not that unnecessarily killing the civil citizens, no. This was nonsense. If there was fight between two kings, the citizens, they were unaffected, not that there is fight now between two parties, there is immediately siren, (imitates siren:) gaw, gaw, gaw, gaw, now bomb and the civil..., the most uncivilized way of war. In those days-those days means at least five thousand years ago*-they selected a place, and "Let us fight and decide our fate," kṣatriyas. Why the public should suffer? So in this way Kurukṣetra was selected to fight between the two parties. And still it is existing. It is a great field. And dharma-kṣetre... Just try to understand that there is no need of our imperfect comments on the Bhagavad-gītā. That is my point.



*So dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. Yuyutsavaḥ. This yuyutsavaḥ word is now used in Japanese language also. That artificial fight, what is called? Yuyutsavaḥ?

Śyāmasundara: Jujitsu.



Devotee: Judo.



*Prabhupāda: Yuyutsavaḥ, it is called yuyutsavaḥ. So yuyutsavaḥ means when two parties are fighting, they are called yuyutsavaḥ, "Desiring to fight, they prepared." So actually these two groups of brothers, cousin brothers, they assembled there for fighting to decide their fate. So everything is clear. Dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā [Bg. 1.1], assembled, yuyutsavaḥ, for fighting. And who are they? It is the question of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, the father of the Duryodhana, and he is asking his private secretary, Sañjaya. Sañjaya was relaying the fight in the battlefield, and Dhṛtarāṣṭra was blind. Just like television. So he was seeing the fight from the heart. It means there is still more finer science, that you don't require machine to see it by television, what is going outside. You can see within your heart. So this Sañjaya was seeing the battle, and he was relaying to Dhṛtarāṣṭra.



*So point is that every word of Bhagavad*-gītā, that is fact, historical, and very nicely composed and spoken by the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted by all parties as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are parties of spiritual life in India. Just like Śaṅkarācārya's party, they are coming from very old time. I am speaking of the recent, modern age, say, within two thousand years. Modern means within two thousand years. Śaṅkarācārya age is about fifteen hundred years. Similarly, Rāmānujācārya about eleven hundred years; *Madhvācārya about seven hundred years. In this way there are, they are coming from that paramparā system. One paramparā system is coming from Brahma. Another paramparā system is coming from Lakṣmī, the goddess of fortune. Another paramparā system is coming from Lord Śiva. Another paramparā system is coming from the Kumāras*-they were unmarried, brahmacārīs, sons of Brahmā. So those paramparā system, line of disciplic succession, are still existing in India. Practically, India's spiritual life is still being controlling by these lines of disciplic succession. So all these ācāryas, according to the Vaiṣṇava ācārya... Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, there are four ācāryas. Śrī Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, and Viṣṇu Svāmī. And those who are not Vaiṣṇavas, impersonalists, they are represented by Śaṅkarācārya. Even Śaṅkarācārya, from whom we differ in philosophical discussion... Not very much different-so far the procedure is concerned, the regulative principles are concerned, they are all the same. The only difference is that Śaṅkarācārya's sampradāya, they take the ultimate Absolute Truth as impersonal, and we Vaiṣṇavas, we take the Absolute Truth as person. But Śaṅkarācārya, in his later stage, he also admitted in a different way. He said in his last prayer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead,

bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ

*bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha*-mate

samprāpte sannihite kāle marane

*na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛñ*-karaṇe



*So he said to his disciples, "You foolish, mūḍha*-mate..."-mūḍha-mate means "you rascals and fools"-"you just take to Govinda. You just worship Govinda, personal Govinda." Bhaja govindam, three times. Three times means he is giving stress. Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate: three times. Prāpte sannihite kāle marane: "When your death will be near, at the point of your death," na hi na hi rakṣati ḍukṛñ-karaṇe. Ḍukṛñ-karaṇe means a grammatical jugglery, that "This word should be interpreted like this. This word should be interpreted like this." So, "This fight of interpretation will not save you. Better from the very beginning you worship Govinda. That will save you." This is his instruction. Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate. And so far we are concerned, Vaiṣṇavas, we all accept govinda, ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi, Govinda, the Supreme Person, the original Personality Godhead, govindam.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



The summum..., the cause of all causes, the supreme controller, is Kṛṣṇa. And that Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are presenting all over the world. And this Hanumān Gosvāmī has given me the credit that I am representing Kṛṣṇa.



*So it is not very ordinary job, neither ordinary position, but it is not difficult also. The difficulty is when I adulterate and misinterpret Kṛṣṇa's words. Then it is difficult. Otherwise, if I say... The same example: like a peon, if I present your friend's letter without any correction, then I have done my duty. That's all. So it is not difficult. Anyone can deliver a letter to you. It does not require any educational qualification. Simply he must be honest not to alter the text of the letter according to the peon's whims. That much we are doing. Therefore I am representative. Try to under... And anyone can do this. In the Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, I am the Supreme. There is no better, no more anyone superior than Me." That's all right. We accept that. Now, you can say "How we accept?" I accept because it is Vedic injunction. That is the process of Vedic injunction: you have to accept without argument. Just like for practical life I will say some examples, that cow dung. In India cow dung is accepted as very pure. So in one place of the Vedic injunction you will find that "Any stool of animal is impure." That's a fact. Everyone knows. Even your own stool, what to speak of other animals'-impure. But in another place says, "Exception is given to the cow's stool, cow dung. That is pure." It is so pure that if you apply on some impure place, it becomes pure. That's a fact. In India still, especially in villages, they mop the floor with cow dung, and it is so nice and so fresh. You can try. Here also there are cows. You take cow dung and you can see how it is antiseptic. We are actually doing in America in our New Vrindaban. We are maintaining cows there, protecting cows, because cow protection is one of the items for Kṛṣṇa consciousness people. Especially Kṛṣṇa is worshiped,

*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



*He is immediately referred that "You are brahmaṇya*-deva go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, the benedictor of the cows and the brāhmaṇas." Why? Jagad... "Next You are benedictor to the general people in the world. First the go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca." Why? Why Kṛṣṇa should be especially interested with go and brāhmaṇa? These are things. Now, when Kṛṣṇa was child, He was crawling. This is His pastime. By crawling He used to go to the cowshed and catch one calf's tail, and the calf will drag Him and smear His body in cow dung. He enjoyed it. So cow dung is actually so pure. You can test it. One chemical analyzer in Calcutta, Dr. Lal Madhavi(?) Ghosh, he tested. He found all antiseptic properties, although it is stool. So that is the nature of Vedic injunction. You accept it. You are benefited. You save the time. Whatever is stated in the Vedas, if you accept, then you don't require to make research how to find out God or how to find out yourself. Everything is there simply if you accept it. Not blindly. If you want to test it, you can test. Just like this cow dung. In the Vedas it is said it is pure, but if you want to test chemically, you will find it pure. That is Vedic injunction.



*Therefore our Vedic injunctions are very supreme evidence, Veda-pramāṇam, śabda-pramāṇam. There are three kinds of evidences. First evidence is direct perception*-I see personally. And then historical evidence, and then śabda-pramāṇa. Śabda-pramāṇa means evidence from the Vedas. Out of three kinds of evidences, the śabda-pramāṇas, or the evidences received from the Vedas, that is accepted. So for spiritual advancement especially we have to accept the Veda-pramāṇa, or evidences given in Vedic literature. So this disciplic succession, as Gosvāmī Hanumān Prasād said, that is essential. That is the Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This word abhigacchet, it is a form of verb which is used where the sense is "You must! You must!" There is no exception. You cannot say that "I may go to a spiritual master or I may not go. I can study at home." No. You must go. Just like in modern age also, if you (are) actually interested to be recognized as educated, you must get your admission in a recognized school or college and take degree. Then you will... If you study at home, you may be very great scholar, and if you say that you have passed M.A. examination, nobody will care for you. Similarly, if you actually want to be advanced in spiritual knowledge, then this is the injunction: tad-vijñānārtham. Tad-vijñānārtham means... Vijñāna means science. Spiritual knowledge is also a science. It is not sentiment; it is science. Now, if you like, you can make research work whether this is fact. Just like this cow dung. You may think that "This is contradiction. In one place it is said that stool of an animal is impure; *now here it is again said that cow dung is pure. It is contradiction." So if you like, you can make analysis. But you accept the Vedic injunction as it is*-you save so much time, that's all, and immediately become advanced.

*Therefore the Veda says that in order to learn that spiritual science, you must approach a person, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva [MU 1.2.12], who is guru. Guru means spiritual master. And who is spiritual master? Who abides by the disciplic succession. He does not change. He does not interpret. He presents things as they are. Just like we are doing. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says that... For spiritual realization, He says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Kṛṣṇa says that "Always think of Me." Man-manā. Man-manā means "about Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "You just become My devotee." So we are teaching our students in that way, how to think of Kṛṣṇa always. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. [break] ...walk on the street, and if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you remember Kṛṣṇa. There is no tax for it. There is no loss for it. Suppose if you are free, traveling on the bus or on the train, you have got time. So instead of reading so many news from the newspaper, if you utilize... The newspaper means the repeated things. Every morning you see something: "Somebody has stolen, somebody was killed, some political leaders have bluffed you," and so many things, the same thing, repetition of the same thing. This is also repetition, Hare Kṛṣṇa, but by this repetition, you enlighten your spiritual life. And by that repetition, you simply waste your time, that carvita-carvaṇānām. So after reading your newspaper, you throw it away. It has no... After one hour of its publication, it has no value. But this Bhagavad-gītā, it was spoken five thousand, years ago, still they are being read with respect and honor. So this kind of literature should be read, not a literature which is printed and you read and glance over and throw it away. So that is man-manā, thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, "You become My devotee." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ mad-yājī: "You worship Me." Māṁ namaskuru: "Offer your obeisances unto Me." Now, all these items, there is no expenditure, and anyone can do. Even the child can do. What is the difficulty? Factually our children, Kṛṣṇa conscious children, do that. The father-mother offers obeisances, and the child imitates*-he also offers obeisance, bows down. So this offering obeisances to Kṛṣṇa will not go in vain. It will have effect. So it is inexpensive. It is very simple, without any loss. Suppose you have got a picture of Kṛṣṇa and you simply think of the picture, man-manā, and you offer a little lamp, a little incense, and if you don't offer, if you simply offer your respect, what is your loss? Is there any loss? [break] We are all businessmen. We calculate everything in terms of loss and profit. So there is no loss. That's a fact. But if there is any profit, why don't you try it? If there is any profit... There is profit. These boys, these European and American boys who are with me, there are hundreds and thousands of them... They have sacrificed their life. Unless there is some profit... They are not fools. They are not coming of foolish parents or foolish nation. Unless there is some profit, how they are doing? There must be some profit. So without any investment of your money, without losing your time, if you get some spiritual profit, why don't you take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? That is our plea. We are imploring everyone. If you think that there are many objection, "If I keep one picture of Kṛṣṇa or I offer Him something, fruits and flowers," all right, don't do that. But what is the objection if you chant? You have got freedom, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all right, simply Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

*The point is that we are teaching Bhagavad*-gītā as it is; *therefore I am representative of Kṛṣṇa. If you do that, you become also representative of Kṛṣṇa. So it is not very difficult. Don't think it is a very hard job: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so great personality, God, and how one can become His representative?" No. Anyone can become His representative provided he follows the Kṛṣṇa's instruction. That's all. Anyone. Actually they are doing that. They are representative. Not only I, but they are also. Every one of our members, they are Kṛṣṇa's representative. They are not trying to malinterpret. As there are so many so*-called scholars... When this verse is translated and commented upon by big scholar... I do not wish to utter his name. He is very big man. But now he is living dead. Because he has committed so many offenses, now he is living, but he has lost his memory. Very recently I went to see him. He cannot... He is like that. So all his intelligence is finished. So nature is so strong that you can malinterpret, but nature is so strong that one day he will make you forget everything, brain paralysis. So how you are going to interpret the powerful nature? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ya prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



*Daivī hy eṣā. You cannot surpass the stringent laws of material nature. That is not possible. Practically, the modern so*-called scientific world, they are trying to conquer over the laws of nature. That is not possible. You forget that. Peacefully forget that. It is not possible. You will never be able. Because we believe in the words of Vedic scripture, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14], you cannot conquer over the laws... [break] "...conquer over the laws of nature, then my liberation is stopped. How it will be possible?" Yes, you can do that. Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who fully surrenders unto Me, he can overcome the stringent laws of nature." See practically. The laws of nature, the āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam... Apart from other laws of nature, I become hungry; I require to eat something. I require to sleep. I require to have sense gratification. So these are laws of nature. But people who are accustomed to bad habits, it is very difficult to overcome them. But those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are actually overcoming the stringent laws of nature. These are practical.



*So our becoming the representative of Kṛṣṇa is not very difficult job because we do not misinterpret the readings of Bhagavad-gītā. We accept them as it is. If there is some doubt... There cannot be any doubt. It may be due to my poor fund of knowledge I cannot understand it*-that we should admit. The lines, as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are as perfect as anything. But if I cannot understand it, that is my lack of knowledge, my poor fund of knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has suggested or ordered in this Bhagavad-gītā,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



Because there may be some difficulty. Just like here Kṛṣṇa says that gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ [Bg. 2.11]. He is ordering completely that the subject matter of this body is not very important thing. The most important thing is to understand about the spirit soul which is within the body. But at the present moment the whole world is giving simply stress on the body. Just like last night there was question, that to serve the humanity. Yes, serve the humanity... Is it not a service to the humanity to give real knowledge? But the service to the body is not neglected. Just like we are giving this knowledge to the world. It does not mean that we are starving or anyone who comes to us, he will starve. In our Māyāpur center daily one hundred men are being fed. And in our Bombay center... Similarly, in our Los Angeles... In all centers our temple is open. Any man can come and eat and live with us. Here also, we have opened temple. We invite anyone. If one person thinks that he is in scarcity or he has no... I don't think in your country such person is there. But still, if there is, he is cordially invited, "Please come and live with us. We shall supply all, everything, necessities of life." But you shall have to live with us as we live. That's all. That is the only condition.



*So there is no scarcity if we believe in Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then there will be no scarcity. Actually there is no scarcity. You have been already informed that we have got ninety*-five centers and we are spending seventy to eighty thousand dollars per month. But we have no fixed-up income. We are traveling all over the world with party. You can imagine. This is very expensive job. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying us all our necessities. Why not? If you are serving for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, why He will not supply you? Kṛṣṇa is supplying food to everyone, those who are not devotees, and why not to the devotees? What we have done? Those who have denied the existence of God, they are also being fed by Kṛṣṇa, or God. And we are preaching the glories of God. Why we shall be in want? That is not possible. And actually we are not. So this is not very important subject matter. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, automatically, if you take care of the spiritual side of your existence, the material side of your existence will be automatically taken care, automatically. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ [Bg. 2.11]. The so far the body is concerned, either it is dead... Dead, so far dead body is concerned, everyone knows that now it is useless. But even the living body's function, that is also useless. Because, after all, it is useless. It is useful so long the spirit soul is there. Therefore the spirit soul is important, not this body. So actual knowledge means to understand what is the spirit soul, what is its nature, what is its necessity, how it is living, what is the ultimate goal. So many things are there. But unfortunately, there is no educational institution. We are trying with little effort to give this education to the people. It is essential because Kṛṣṇa says, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca. So far material part of our existence is concerned, there are so many institutions or so many government. They are taking... Just like take, for example, hospital. There are hundreds and thousands of hospital, but where is the hospital for treating the spirit soul? They have no knowledge. They have no knowledge even, what to speak of hospital. This is the hospital. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness temple is the hospital for the diseased spirit soul. And everyone is diseased. Come to this hospital. We shall take care of you and cure your material disease.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Before you have the opportunity to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda any questions, we'd just like to tell all of you that we have opened a temple now in... [break]



Guest (1): Prabhupāda, in the Christian faith there is the idea that God made it possible for life to be created. He made it possible for the processes of the universe to continue. Is this the same with Kṛṣṇa? Does He make it possible for these things to happen or does He make them happen, or does...? Does He create the universe?



Prabhupāda: What is, that question?



Śyāmasundara: Does Kṛṣṇa create the universe or does He just make it possible to be created?



Prabhupāda: No, the universe, this material world, is created by God. That's a fact. But if the question is that whether God has created this body for suffering in this material world, that is not God's creation; that is our creation. Just like the government creates the prison house. That does not mean that government wants that somebody should be criminals and fill up this prison house. It is a freedom to the citizens. Government creates university also, or government creates prison house also. But it is your freedom. You make your choice: either you go to the university or you go to the prison house. It is your choice. Just like government opens some liquor shop, gives license. That does not mean that government is encouraging drinking. The liquor shop is there. Those who are drunkards, they can go. That's a facility. That's all. Otherwise, that is not encouragement. Similarly, the... When God created this material world... I think in your Bible also it is said that the Adam and Eve, the forbidden apple... That means He made some rules and regulations, "Do this; *do not this." And if you do this, what is not sanctioned, then you suffer. God forbade not to eat the apple-I do not know actually-but by the request of Eve, Adam ate it, and he became conditioned. Similarly*-it may be story-but the fact is that God created this world. That's a fact. And He created the rules and regulation also. That is called Vedic knowledge. And in the Vedic knowledge there are injunctions: "You do this; you do not do this." If you follow the Vedic knowledge, then you have come to this world for enjoyment, so your regulated enjoyment will satisfy your senses; *at the same time, you will be able to go back to home, back to Godhead, again. But if you do not follow the regulative principles, if you simply try to enjoy, exploit, this material world, then you will be implicated. So in the beginning you may come in this material world as Brahma, and gradually, by your propensities, you may glide down to become the insect of stool. That is... That responsibility is yours. That is not God's responsibility. You can elevate yourself. Just like at the present moment we have got this human form of body. We can hear the instruction of God, and we can again elevate. That is possible. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



Therefore as we are representative of God, we are canvassing door to door, "Please become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make your life successful." That's all. Now it is up to you to take it or reject it. That is your business. Our business is to canvass. The representative goes to secure business door to door. Somebody purchases; somebody does not. So that is not representative's concern. Similarly, our concern is that we shall dedicate our life to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world. Now it is up to you to accept it or not to accept it.



Guest (2): How do you relate Christ with Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Christ has already explained. He is son of God. And Kṛṣṇa, we accept He's God.



Guest (2): What does Kṛṣṇa say?



Prabhupāda: God.



Woman (1): Your Divine Grace, I would like to ask you. I know that Kṛṣṇa is very merciful, and He has allowed us many, many births. Do we take these births in a human form all the time, or perhaps do we take a birth in perhaps an ant or a rat or a dog, or will it always be in the human form if we believe in Kṛṣṇa consciousness now?



*Prabhupāda: If you believe in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if you are not successful to finish the business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life, next life your birth is guaranteed as human being, either in a very rich family or in a very pure family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga*-bhraṣṭo sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ. Just like every one of us, we are trying to be successful in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Suppose that due to some reason we fall down. There is possibility because māyā, illusory nature, is very, very strong. So we may become victim. So there is no... This question was raised by Arjuna, and it was replied by Kṛṣṇa. So there is no question of wrong. A person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Everyone should try to finish this business. Why one should wait for another life? We have got this opportunity. Let us finish. And what is the difficulty to remain always thinking of Kṛṣṇa? Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]. And the process is very simple. That I already explained: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So adopt this process. Then your... In this life you get Kṛṣṇa. But even if you are not successful, then a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is guaranteed next life human form of life, and that is also either in very rich family or... Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe [Bg. 6.41]. Śucīnām means very pure family, and śrīmatāṁ means śrī-mat, fortunate, rich. Śrī means riches, and mat means possession, one who possesses. There are so many suffix. So anyone who takes birth in rich family, he should remember that "Kṛṣṇa has given me this chance that I have no material problem. So I have got enough time. Let me chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma..." And so far pure family is concerned, suppose one is born in a nice brāhmaṇa family, a Vaiṣṇava family, he gets chance immediately by his father's example, by his mother's example, by his family tradition. So naturally he gets the chance. Just like our children. These boys and girls who are married, they have got children. They are getting chance from the very beginning. The Śyāmasundara's daughter, Sarasvatī, she is wonderful girl. She is a child, but she never goes outside the spiritual consciousness. She makes her ārati. There are many boys. There is one boy, "D.D.D.," I call him. He is always engaged in making ārati, in worshiping Jagannātha. His father sent him some toys. He did not take it. So I asked him, "Why you are not taking the toys?" And he said, "It is māyā." (laughs) So you can train your children from the very beginning and make his life... That is the duty of father and mother. The Vedic injunction is: one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they can help the child from the imminent danger of death. So who can save? Unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, nobody can escape the cycle of birth and death. Nobody can. This is the only process if you want to stop. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this body, there is no more birth in the material world. You get immediately transferred to the spiritual world, and you get your eternal, blissful, knowledge life.



Woman (3): Would you teach that you've been first master on this?



Devotee: She's asking if you are the first master, what you are teaching.



Prabhupāda: No, we have already explained. From Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the first teacher of this Kṛṣṇa philosophy. So we are taking it, carrying the same instruction.



Devotee: She wants to know if you're the first to come to New Zealand.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is first time I have come to New Zealand. So thank you very much. Now have saṅkīrtana. [break]



Guest (1): ...views of Kṛṣṇa towards Westerners and drugs, especially by the young?



Devotee: "What is the views of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in regard to the people using drugs for spiritual enlightenment?"



Prabhupāda: That is not very palatable. Kṛṣṇa does not allow drugs in our movement. No. Kṛṣṇa says,



*yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*One cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness unless he is completely washed of all sinful activity. So we forbid four things because they are pillars of sinful activities: illicit sex life, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. Unless one gives up these four sinful activities it is not possible to approach Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa clearly says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Pāpam means sin. One who has finished the sinful activity... And these are four pillars of sinful activity. So we have to voluntarily give up these habits. That is called austerity, penance. The human life is meant for austerity and penance, not for increasing the items of our sense gratification. That is animal life. Human life is meant for restraint. Laws are for the human being. When you go to the street-"Keep to the left"*-this law is meant for human being, not for the dog. The dogs can go from left to right; *he has no punishment. But if you go from left to right, violating the rules or violating the color, symbol, signal, then you will be immediately arrested because you are human being. So all the laws or injunctions are for human being. So human being, human life, is very responsible life. As you cannot violate the state law, similarly, you cannot violate the laws given by God. That is called dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Religion means the laws of God. If you violate, then you are punished. That's all. All right. [break] So ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much. (end)





720416LE.AUC

Lecture at Art Gallery

-

Auckland, April 16, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here and giving us a chance to speak about the absolute artist. Kṛṣṇa's name is Naṭabara, Naṭabara. Naṭabara means the greatest dramatic dancer. And another, His name, is Naṭo nāṭyadharo yathā. He is dancing in such a nice way that He (is) attracting everyone. So in the Vedas it is said about Kṛṣṇa how great artist He is. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. The Absolute Personality of Godhead, He has nothing to do personally. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Kāryam means work. He hasn't got to perform any work, although He is the greatest worker. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samaḥ adhikaś ca dṛśyate. And nobody is found greater than Him or equal to Him. In this world every one of us, we know that "Somebody is lower than me, somebody is greater than me, and somebody is equal to me." That is our experience. We cannot say that I am or you are absolute. Nobody is absolute. However you may be great in the estimation of others, you will find somebody is greater than you, and somebody is lower than you, and somebody is equal to you. But so far the greatest Absolute Personality of Godhead is concerned, na tasya samaḥ adhikaś ca dṛśyate. By experimental study, by research work by great saintly persons, sages, they have concluded, na tasya samaḥ adhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody is found samaḥ," means "equal to Him, or adhikaḥ." Adhikaḥ means greater. That is the experience. And still, He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. "His energies are multi, multifarious, various kinds of energy." And the energies are working so nicely as if, svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca, natural gift, knowledge, art, svā bala-kriyā, and strength. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā. Just like you are artist. You are painting one picture, one flower, very nice flower. You have to take your brush, the color and the plate, so many things, and you are taxing your brain, how to make it beautiful. But you see one rose flower in the garden. Not only one rose flower, many millions of rose flowers, they are coming out very artistically painted. But when we ask, the answer is that "It is nature." But if we go deep into the matter, what is this nature? Nature means a working instrument, that's all, an energy. That is nature. There is energy or śakti, energy, power. There is power. Without power, how the rose flower is coming to beautiful shape from the bud? There is power. That power is Kṛṣṇa's power. But that is so subtle and working so nicely that overnight we see that a beautiful flower has come out. But there is working, there is brain. But they are working so swiftly and subtly, we cannot see how it is being worked. Just like when you paint one picture, I can see, everyone can see that you are working. But this painting or this working of the actual rose flower, that is also being worked out by several energies. Don't think that is has coming out automatically. No. Nothing comes out automatically. It is coming out of the energy of the Supreme Lord, but the energies are so subtle, nice and artistic that all of a sudden you see a nice flower.



*So He is the greatest artist. Just like nowadays, the electronic age, the artist or the scientist just pushing on one button and it is working so nicely. Nowadays it is very easy to understand. In the aeroplane the pilot is simply pushing on button, and such a huge machine, just like a small city, it is flying in the sky, and the wings are working, the machine is working. But we see that a person is simply pushing some button. As it is materially possible, that a man of this world can work so wonderfully simply by pushing some button, so how much great is God, or Kṛṣṇa-"God is great"*-how His brain is fertile, how energies are fine, that simply by His desire, "Let there be creation," immediately everything is there. So that is the greatest artist. Simply we have to understand. If we take things very insignificantly, "Ah, by nature," but you cannot explain what is nature. In the garden you see different flowers are coming out. The same ground, the same water, but different flowers are coming out, different flavor, different color, all different, varieties. So the answer is bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtāni. He is the seed. He is the seed. You have seen the banyan tree, a small seed. But this small seed has got so potency that if you sow it in a nice place and water it, one day it will come, a big banyan tree. Now, what are the potencies, what are the artistic arrangement, scientific arrangement, within that small seed that it grows a big banyan tree? Not only a big banyan tree, but also many millions of big fruits, and within each fruit there are millions of seeds, and each seed contains the potency of another tree.

*So where is your science in that way? Where is that artist within this material world? Where is that pleasure of that artistic work? These things should be enquired. It is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the Vedānta*-sūtra this is the first aphorism, that "In the human form of life these enquiries should be made. These studies should be made." This is a fact. You cannot manufacture such machine that automatically a rose flower is coming out. You cannot make a chemical combination or a tablet which contains a big banyan tree, automatically will come out. So don't you think there is need of artistic brain and scientific brain? If you simply say, "It is nature," that is not good explanation. But the Vedas gives us information, "No." Janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The Absolute Truth is He from whom everything is being generated." First aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā. Greater thing. We are engaged in smaller thing. We become amazed when we see a small sputnik is flying in the sky, and it is trying to go to the moon planet, and we are giving all credit to the scientist, and scientist is challenging, "What is God? Science is everything." But if you are cool brain, then you will see that now, in comparison to the sputnik, there are millions and trillions of planets and stars, big, big planets like sun planet, which is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. Apart from sun planet, if we take this teeny planet, earthly planet, on which we are living, there are so many oceans, so many mountains, skyscraper buildings. But if you go above this planet a few thousand miles, oh, you will see just like a spot, this big planet. You will see just like a spot. Not only spot, this one planet, but there are millions of planets. They are floating in the sky like swabs of cotton. So if we give so much credit to the artist who has manufactured this sputnik, how much credit we shall give to the person who has manufactured this arrangement? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to appreciate the greatest artist. You are all artists, but when we appreciate the greatest artist, Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. Otherwise, whatever we are doing, it is said that we are being defeated unless we come to the point to appreciate the greatest artist who has created all this arrangement.

That appreciation we find in the prayers of Brahmā, Brahmā, who is the creator of this universe. So he is writing in appreciation of Govinda. Now, so far this universe is concerned, it is said,

*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*Now, we are trying to understand the planetary system by our scientific method, but we could not finish even studying one nearest planet, the moon planet, and what to speak of other millions and millions of planets? You see? But we get this knowledge directly from Brahma*-saṁhitā. What is that? Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. By the effulgence, glaring effulgence of the rays of the body of Kṛṣṇa, yasya prabhā prabhavato, there are innumerable universes. We cannot study even one universal position, but we get information from this Brahma-saṁhitā that there are innumerable universes. And in each and every universes there are innumerable planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe, and koṭi means hundreds and thousands. One hundred times of one hundred thousand. That means innumerable. There are innumerable universes-innumerable suns, innumerable moons, innumerable planets. So this is being possible in the effulgence, brahmajyoti, of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's bodily effulgence is called brahmajyoti. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, brāhmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The brahmajyoti... Those who are jñānīs, those who are trying to approach the Absolute Truth by mental speculation, by dint of our teeny knowledge, they can, utmost, approach to this brahmajyoti. But that brahmajyoti is only emanation of the bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato [Bs. 5.40]. Just like the light and the illumination is coming from the light, from that localized bulb, similarly, the brahmajyoti is coming out. Just like the sunshine, the best example, the sunshine, illumination of the sunlight, sunshine, is coming from the sun planet. The sun planet is localized. We can see it. And the effulgence, and the bodily effulgence of the sun planet is distributed all over the universe. Similarly, sun planet is one of the material creation of Kṛṣṇa. But as the moon planet reflects the sun planet, similarly the sun planet also reflects brahmajyoti, and the brahmajyoti comes out of the bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. This information we get from Brahma-saṁhitā:



*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*So therefore the greatest art is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Greatest art. If we actually want to be artist, then we shall try to understand or try to be intimately associated with the greatest artist, Kṛṣṇa. For this purpose, this society is established. This Society's name is International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. The members of this Society are trained to see in everything the display of Kṛṣṇa's artistic sense. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In everything the devotee sees the artistic hand of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And actually that is so. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "Whatever you see, everything is emanation from Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. "Everything comes out of My energy." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Everything. Iti matvā: one who understands this fact that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam... [Bs. 5.1].



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*The īśvara... Kṛṣṇa is īśvara, supreme controller. Just like in your Institute there is a director who gives you direction, similarly, the supreme director, artist, is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. He is giving direction. Īśvara, controlling everything. Here in this material world we have got experience of a controller. Every one of us is a controller. You are controller, I am a controller. But above me there is another controller. And above that controller there is another controller, another, another controller. You go on searching out controller after controller. When you come to the supreme controller, that He is not controlled by everyone but He controls everyone, that is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. This is our definition of God. God means controller. So everyone is controller. In that sense everyone is god. But everyone is not supreme God, supreme controller. Suppose I am controlling some of my students. But I am being controlled by somebody else. Similarly, he is also controlled by somebody else. That is our practical experience. But the supreme controller means who is not controlled by anyone, but He is controller of everyone. That is God. Nowadays it has become a cheap business, to see so many Gods. But you test this, whether he is controlled by anyone. If he is controlled by somebody, then he is not God. If He is simply controller, then you can accept Him as God. That is the definition of God, a very simple definition.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So sac*-cid-ānanda... There is... In the Vedānta-sūtra there is another aphorism, that ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12) "By nature the Supreme Absolute Person is ānandamaya." The artistic sense... You are engaged in artistic work just to have a pleasure, ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. That pleasure, rasa, a mellow... By painting one picture, you enjoy some rasa or mellow; *otherwise why you are working so hard? There is a pleasure. So Kṛṣṇa is raso vai saḥ. Raso vai saḥ: "He is the reservoir of all pleasure." Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. These words are used. Sat, cit, ānanda. Ānanda means pleasure. His pleasure potency is Rādhārāṇī. You have seen the picture of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. So Rādhārāṇī is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. He has got, as I have already explained, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He has got multi-energies, and one of the energy is pleasure potency. That is Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa is addressed in the Bhagavad-gītā, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So parabrahma. Now, Brahman means biggest. So for Brahman happiness... That you have got experience within this world, that for achieving brahma sukha, or the greatest pleasure, ananta, unlimited pleasure...



ramante yoginaḥ anante

satyānande cid-ātmani

*iti rāma*-padenāsau

paraṁ brahma ity abhidhīyate

[Cc. Madhya 9.29]



*What is the meaning of Rāma, Rāma*-Kṛṣṇa? So Rāma means ramante, enjoys, rāma. So who enjoys? Yoginaḥ, big, big yogis. Rāmante yoginaḥ. The greatest of all yogis is the bhakta-yogī.



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*These are the Vedic versions, that highest yogi... There are many kinds of yogis. The topmost yogi is he who... Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad*-gata āntarātmanā. The yogis, they try to find out by samādhi the Supreme Person within the heart... Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yogi's, yogi's business is dhyānāvasthita, in meditation, in full samādhi, he is seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, four-handed Nārāyaṇa. Viṣṇu-devānanda. Ānanda. They are taking pleasure by seeing Viṣṇu within the heart. Viṣṇu is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. The Supreme Person in His Paramātmā feature, localized feature, He is existing in everyone's heart.



So yogi, the ultimate yogi, ultimate yoga process is to be situated in samādhi, samādhi. Samādhi means forgetting everything external, simply concentrating on the form of Viṣṇu. Therefore this is said:

*yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra*-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair

*vedaiḥ sāṅga*-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ

*dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasa paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ

[SB 12.13.1]



*Dhyānāvasthita, in full samādhi, in meditation, the yogis, they see the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the yogi. And out of all those yogis, the Kṛṣṇa form... Kṛṣṇa has got many forms. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta*-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. Ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam. Kṛṣṇa has multiforms. He is the Yogeśvara. The yogis, they can also sometimes expand to many-fold forms. There is only one instance in the śāstra. There was a Saubhari Muni. He was a great yogi. He expanded himself to eight forms. So yogis, they can. But if a yogi can expand himself into eight or, say, several forms, how much potency is there in the yogeśvara. Kṛṣṇa is called yoge... Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. Yogeśvara [Bg. 18.78]. He is the master of all mystic powers, Yogeśvara. So He can expand Himself in many forms, multiforms. That is explained. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam. Ananta-rūpam. Ādyam, but He is the original person. Purāṇa-puruṣam, the oldest person, because He is the original. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca, but He is still young man. You have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa. You will never see Kṛṣṇa as old man. When Kṛṣṇa was in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra... You have seen the picture. Kṛṣṇa is driving the chariot of Arjuna. At that time His age was not less than hundred years. He had great-grandchildren. But you have seen the picture. He was looking like a boy of sixteen to twenty years. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is described in the Vedic literatures as nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Kṛṣṇa's body... Therefore His body is spiritual body. The spiritual... When you get your spiritual body, you also get nava-yauvanam. Those who are associating with Kṛṣṇa in the Kṛṣṇa planet or those who are associating with Nārāyaṇa in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, they are also ever-young. Their bodily features are exactly like Nārāyaṇa. It is called sārūpya-mukti.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a great science of understanding what is God. Simply with vague idea, "There is God," that is not sufficient. That is good, simply to understand "There is God." Generally, they do not believe that there is God. But if somebody says, "Yes, there is God, but I have no business with Him," no, you should know God, actually what is His name, what does He do, where is His residence, what is His business. You should know this. And these things are possible to understand in this human form of life. We go to the human society to speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We do not go to the society of animals, because they have no capacity to understand. Their body does not permit to understand what is God. But the human society... It doesn't matter whether he is born in India or Czechoslovakia or Russia. I have been in Russia also. It is not that, that they are godless. The population is as good as in other country, but the government is suppressing. So that is another chapter. We have some devotees in Russia, very young men. They are very much interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they are chanting, although silently, so that government may not hear. There will be danger. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, and it is a great science. Unfortunately, there is no arrangement in any university, in any educational institution, or any arts or science college, "What is God?" There is no such arrangement. This is the most regrettable condition of the present society.

*So without understanding of God's science, Kṛṣṇa-tattva, or the science of Kṛṣṇa, the life is simply animal life because animals, they do not understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, or God. Therefore human society without God consciousness, without any knowledge of the science of God, it is animal society. Actually it is happening. The world is now full with so many problems, so many difficulties, because the chance of human life is being misused. The intelligence of... Higher intelligence... We have got higher intelligence than the animals. The animals also live on this land, but they cannot utilize their intelligence for constructing a nice building, nice garden or industry or trade or car, because they have no brain. But the human being has got higher brain, higher brain capacity. That should be utilized not only for bodily comforts... Bodily comforts, the animals, they are also trying. Bodily comforts means to eat, sleep, to have sense gratification and to defend. So that is being (done) by the animals also, in their own way. So if we simply devote our time for these animal necessities of our life, then we are no better than animals. The higher intelligence should be utilized to know God, or Kṛṣṇa. When we say "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means God. Simply, generally to say God, but we give "Kṛṣṇa," the actual name of God, the actual residence of God, the actual activities of God, actual form of God, actual associates of... So many things we give. So simply to know God... Just like to simply to know one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, mathematic. Mathematic means nothing but one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. That's all. Now you can exchange in different ways-it becomes different number. But actually it is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. So simply to know one, two, three, four, five, six, just like your daughter chants one, two, three, four, five, six, nineteen, eighteen, so that is not sufficient. You must know higher mathematics, how to adjust this one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. That is higher mathematics. Higher mathematics does not mean that some other figures are brought in. The same one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. But you must know how to adjust these nine figures-one, two, three*-and that is science of God. Simply to know, that is very good. Those who are atheists, they are declining to accept the existence of God. They are less than animals. Less than animals. The animals also, they are afraid of some higher authority. But these atheists, they are not afraid of higher authorities. Although they are being kicked by the laws of material nature in every moment, still, they are proud, "No, there is no God. There is no God."

*So that is a very abominable condition of life, less than animals. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. The atheist class men are described as the lowest of the mankind, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Why? Narādhamāḥ, na duṣkṛtinaḥ: always engaged in sinful activities. That na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, and rascals. Prapadyante narādhamāḥ, and lowest of the mankind. So "They are very educated." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "Their knowledge has been taken away by the illusory energy." Why? Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have taken to the philosophy of atheism." So their position... Of course, we approach everyone to preach this science of God consciousness, but it is very difficult. Those who have taken to this atheistic view, āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ... Āsuri... Just like we have got examples in our Vedic science, Vedic knowledge. There were many atheistic persons like Kaṁsa, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Dantavakra, they never accepted existence of God. But they had to accept the existence of God at the time of death. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham, that "Death, which takes away everything from everyone, that is... That death I am." So if we don't try to see God during our lifetime, then there will be an incidence which is sure-"As sure as death." That death is God. So to the atheistic person death is God. And to the theistic person, they can see, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who have developed love of God, oh, they are enjoying the transcendental pleasure in every moment by seeing the artistic work of Kṛṣṇa. So that is the position of a devotee.

*So we request everyone to become devotee and Kṛṣṇa conscious so that you will find everywhere the artistic work of Kṛṣṇa, everywhere. Sarvatra sphuraya tāra iṣṭa*-deva-mūrti, sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. Just like if you are drinking water... These things are very nicely described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So you are thirsty; *you require water. And when you drink water, you feel so much pleasure. Sa vai. Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of pleasure, all pleasure. So raso vai saḥ. So that pleasure, by drinking water, that pleasure is Kṛṣṇa. That is stated, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. For ordinary person who cannot appreciate Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction that "When you drink water, the taste which quench your thirst and you feel relief, that is Kṛṣṇa." Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. [break] ...in day and night. So if you simply try to understand that this taste is Kṛṣṇa, or God, you become God conscious. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So it is not very difficult to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply you require little training. And if you read Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, without any rascaldom, I mean to say, interpretation, as it is, the way it is stated, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, if you take this, you become God conscious. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your life is successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. It is very easy and no loss, but the gain is very great. Therefore we request you all who are present, try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and you will find all information how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Or if you don't like to read Bhagavad-gītā, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. You will be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



*Woman: ...comment on the coming so*-called revolution, or the second coming that is being prophesized by various people for the past fifty-odd years? Do you have any thought on this? Do you expect it?



Devotee: Second coming of who?



Woman: The second of either Christ or a total changeover in the evolution of this planet.



Devotee: Here it is. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. She says do you have any views that for the past fifty or hundred years people have been predicting that there is going to be like a second coming or a spiritual changeover which will have an effect on the whole planet.



Prabhupāda: So that is being done now.



Woman: There's a time, they say, the late 1980's or the 1990's, there is to be...



Prabhupāda: Yes, the signs are like that. People are taking this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very rapidly all over the world.



Woman: But it's just the general way.



*Prabhupāda: So it is not very astonishing if by 1980 there are majority population, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. There is no... Because it is growing. Now, here is a girl, my disciple. His (her) original name was Janne. Now he (she) is devotee. And she was dancing in a different way. Now she is dancing Kṛṣṇa conscious. She was a very reputed artist, you know, in Australia. Now she has given that. She was earning hundreds and thousands of dollars, but she has given up everything. Now she is Jagat*-tarani: she is delivering the world by dancing with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that is quite possible. It is very simple. Therefore there is every possibility. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā, when one sees better thing, he gives up the inferior thing. That is nature. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is better engagement of life. So as soon as one understands this philosophy, he gives up the lower engagement and comes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Guest (1): Is it possible for us to know the source of Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: Source of Kṛṣṇa? Well, Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. We are trying to understand the source of Kṛṣṇa because we have no other experience. We have got only experience that everything has got a source. You go on searching out. Just like you are caused by your father. Your father is caused by his father. His father is cause of... In this way go on researching, researching, then you come to Brahmā, the original person in this universe. Then Brahmā is also caused by Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. The Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is caused by Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. The Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is caused by Saṅkarṣaṇa. Saṅkarṣaṇa is caused by Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa caused by Baladeva. Baladeva is caused by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the origin, cause, of everyone. He has no cause. He has no source. He is the original source of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the source of everything." And Brahma-saṁhitā, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam: [Bs. 5.1] "The cause of all causes." So Supreme Lord is the cause of all causes, but He is not caused by anyone. That is His supremacy. He is not caused by everyone. He is svarāṭ. He is described in the Vedic, svarāṭ, "self-evident." That is God.



*Guest (2): You speak of knowing the creator. Jesus Christ said that "No man comes to the father"*-and I always understood by this he speaks of the creator-"but by me." What do you think of Jesus Christ?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, he says nice thing, "Father." Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father. That is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*He instructs to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, all these multiforms of living entities, 8,400,000 species of life, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed*-giving father." So there is no contradiction between Jesus Christ's description and our Vedic description. God is the supreme father. That's a fact. He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Pitā means father. So He is father of all living entities in different forms. That information we get from Vedic literatures.



Guest (3): You reach Kṛṣṇa consciousness by chanting. That's one of your methods, anyway.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Guest (3): In the Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa perhaps tells Arjuna there's more than one method of attaining consciousness of Him, and those methods are suited to various types of people. I just wonder if you consider that the chanting method is just one or whether it's the only one.



*Devotee: In the Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa describes different yoga processes. And he wants to know...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. But He summarizes the yoga processes in the Sixth Chapter, last verse, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: [Bg. 6.47] "Of all the yogis, one who always thinks of Me with faith and love within himself," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad*-gata āntarātmanā, "within the heart, within himself, always think of Me, Kṛṣṇa," śraddhāvān bhajate yo mam, "engaged in devotional...," sa me yuktatamo, "he is the highest, topmost yogi." He has described different process of yoga system. That's a fact. But He concludes that one who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always within himself with faith and love, he is the topmost yogi. So we are teaching our disciples to think of Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, if you chant and hear the word "Kṛṣṇa," then you become the topmost yogi. And simplest method-anyone can practice it. God has given you the tongue, and you can chant "Kṛṣṇa." Actually they are chanting everywhere, in all parts of the world, very easily, even a child. So this yoga system is recommended especially for this age because other yoga systems are very difficult processes for the present age. The haṭha-yoga system, to sit down in a sacred secluded place, straight right-angular, and looking towards the end of the nose, this is not possible for everyone. Therefore the topmost yoga system is to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And actually it is happening. Now our students all over the world, simply by chanting this holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa, they are quickly advancing in spiritual knowledge, that's a fact. Now stop. (end)





720417LE.AUC

Lecture at Auckland University

-

Auckland, April 17, 1972



*Prabhupāda: ...known as Saṅkīrtana Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. The chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you have already heard. Superficially it may appear the repetition of the same word, but every mantra with effect is chanted like that. It requires little practice. So the effect of this mantra is stated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu: ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. It will cleanse your heart. If you go on chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then gradually the dirty things which are accumulated within our hearts, that will be cleansed. This is the process.



*The dirtiest thing now within our heart is the bodily concept of life. Actually, this is the misconception of whole situation of the modern world. If anyone is in bodily concept of life that "I am this body," then the basic principle of our life becomes on the false platform, because I am not this body. This is the dirtiest thing within our heart. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then gradually, by this bhakti*-yoga process, we shall understand that "I am not this body, but I am a spirit soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. There is a Vedic mantra which is called aham: "I, I am Brahman, or the spirit soul." And if we come to that position to understand that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul," then other things will follow, which is stated in this Bhagavad*-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. When one becomes Brahman-realized, that "I am spirit soul," then the first benefit will be that such persons will be free from all kinds of lamentation and hankering. In this material world two things are going on: lamentation and hankering. Things which we do not possess, we hanker after it, and things we do possess and, somehow or other, we lose, then it is lamenting. So actually the whole situation is lamenting because we are losing. Take, for example, this body which we have gained from our father and mother on a certain date. It is losing gradually. Suppose you are twenty years old. That means you have already lost twenty years of your total duration of life. Suppose you are to live for hundred years. So twenty years you have already lost, or you have already died up to the amount of twenty years. I am seventy-six years. That means I have also died up to the amount of seventy-six years. So the age is increasing, that is a false idea. The age is decreasing. Somebody says that "You are seventy-six years old. Oh, you have so much increased." I am not increased. Practically I have decreased the duration of life.

*The duration of life is limited. It is already destined. According to our past activities, we have got a body whose duration of life is already fixed up. The standard of happiness and distress, that is also fixed up. You cannot change it. Suppose one has got one hundred years age to live. Nowadays nobody lives for one hundred years. Utmost, eighty years or ninety years very rarely. My grandmother lived for ninety*-six years. My father lived for eighty-four years. I do not know how long I shall live, but still I am living. But duration of life in this age is gradually decreasing. You are all students of the university, but there is no science how you can increase the duration of life or how you can stop death. That is not possible. Death... Birth, death, old age and disease-these are the four problems of our life. Nobody wants to die, but death is sure. We must die. Nobody wants to take birth, but there is birth. Now there are so many contraceptive methods for checking birth. But still, the population of the whole world is increasing. So birth, death, old age. Nobody wants to become old, everyone wants to remain young and fresh, but old age overcomes. Similarly, disease. There are scientific advancement of knowledge, you have got very effective medicines, but there is no science to stop disease or to stop death. These are the actual problems. But the problems, these problems, are pertaining to the body. The soul is different from this body. This is our misunderstanding. I am soul; you are soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. But somehow or other, I have been entrapped in these bodily, material bodily changes. Changes, you can understand, that you had a body like a baby; you had a body like a child; you had a body like a boy. Now you have got youthful body. Some days after, you will get a body like me. So the body is changing, and I am the same. I can remember my childhood body, my babyhood body or my boyhood body.

*So the soul is eternal and the body is changing. That is explained in this Bhagavad*-gītā. Most of you are well known to this book, Bhagavad-gītā. It is widely read book all over the world. So the first instruction given in the Bhagavad-gītā is this:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*These two lines of Bhagavad-gītā, that how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, if we simply study these two lines, then our life becomes different. But nobody cares to understand that the soul is eternal. It is changing, transmigrating from one type of body to another body. And there are 8,400,000 species or types of body, and we have been entrapped in this cycle of birth, death, old age and disease. This is our real problem. But in the university or any educational institution there is no department of knowledge to find out what is that thing which is entrapped within this body. We get this information from Bhagavad-gītā: dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Deha means this body, and dehinaḥ, the possessor of the body. Just like your shirt and coat. You are the possessor of the shirt and coat. The shirt and coat is not you. You are different from the shirt and coat. Similarly, we have got our two kinds of body: the gross body and the subtle body. The gross body is made of material elements-earth, water, fire, air, sky*-and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. So when we quit this gross body, the subtle body carries me to another gross body. This is the law of transmigration. It is not the question of belief. It is a fact that if we neglect to study this scientific knowledge, then we are missing the opportunity, because in this human form of life the developed knowledge can study what is there within this body which is so important, which missing, this body becomes worthless.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching the important portion of the body, about the soul. To understand what is the soul, to understand what is the need of the soul, why he is entrapped within this material body, how the soul can be liberated, and after liberation, what is the function of the soul-these things are our subject matter. And these things are very nicely explained as preliminary study in the Bhagavad-gītā, and for higher study, for graduate study, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So our only request is that you are all students-you do not neglect this subject matter, this science to understand what is the soul. It is a fact. No scientific professor at the present moment can explain what is that thing missing, when the thing is missing, this body is called dead. What is the distinction of this dead body and the living body? So according to Vedic instruction, according to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, the body is always dead. But so long the soul is there, it appears to be living. Just like within your coat and shirt, so long you are there, the hand of your coat appears to be moving. Actually, the shirt or coat has no body, but because the original body is moving we see the shirt and coat is also moving. Similarly, this body is moving because the soul within it is moving. As soon as the soul is out of this body, this body will not move. So this science is very important science. That is the basic principle of understanding. It is not the question of thinking that one may believe in the existence of soul or one may not believe. But fact is fact. "Two plus two equal to four"*-that is science. If somebody does not believe, if somebody says, "Two plus two equal to five" or "three," that is not scientist. Similarly, we may not believe in the existence of soul, but that is a fact. But if we want to study the subject matter very seriously and scientifically, then it will be possible to understand. But the simple method recommended in the Vedic literatures, that if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, mantra then gradually your intelligence or consciousness will be cleansed and you will be able to understand that you are not this body, that you are spirit soul... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And if you understand that you are spirit soul, you are Brahman, then, at that time, you will become free from this blazing fire of material existence.

*The blazing fire of material existence, I was just talking this morning our Swami Hanumān Goswāmī. He was speaking that at the present moment there is a movement amongst the younger section to commit suicide. Why? Why younger section are feeling such frustration and confused in spite of so much educational institution? In your Western country there is no question of poverty. You are all well-to-do, especially... I have extensively traveled over America and Europe, especially America. They are very opulent. I have traveled in Australia and come to your country, New Zealand. So far material necessities are concerned, you are all well-to-do. So why this question of frustration as Swami Goswami Hanuman Prasāda was thinking? Now the younger generation are after suicide. I do not know if this is fact. There is some dearth. So many things are. So actually, there is no cause of frustration. There is very good news for jubilation. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't be frustrated. Try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how it is scientific, how it is authorized, how it is old, and how it is accepted by great ācāryas, great stalwart learned scholars, and how it is treated by the learned section of all over the world. So our request is that younger section may not feel confused and frustration. There is very nice hope. Those who are taking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, mostly they are younger section. Now ask them how much hopeful they are, how much jubilant they are. So my request is that-you are all young boys and girls, flowers of the country-don't feel frustration and confused. There is nice hope in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. My only request is that*-you are all learned boys and girls-try to understand this philosophy and science, and you will be happy. That is my request.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



720420LE.TOK

Lecture

-

Tokyo, April 20, 1972



*(kīrtana, prema-dhvanī, "Tokyo Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temple ki jaya")



Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.



So,

*vāñchā*-kalpatarubhyaś ca

*kṛpā*-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo

vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.]



*Vaiṣṇava, devotees of the Lord, they are just like desire tree. Vāñchā*-kalpataru. Desire tree, of course, we have no experience, but there is description. In the spiritual world there are desire trees. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29]. It is called kalpa-vṛkṣa. So,



*vāñchā*-kalpatarubhyaś ca

*kṛpā*-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo

vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.]



Vaiṣṇava, devotee of Lord, can give you everything, whatever you desire, fulfilled, because a Vaiṣṇava can deliver Kṛṣṇa. So when Kṛṣṇa is achieved, so there is no more any desire. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He underwent severe austerities, penances, meditation. His purpose was that "When I shall see God, Nārāyaṇa, I shall take benediction that I must have a kingdom better than my father or my grandfather achieved." That was his determination. Because he was a child, so his stepmother refused to allow him to sit on the lap of his father. He became insulted, so he decided that "I shall take from Kṛṣṇa such a kingdom which even my father or grandfather could not imagine." It is childish determination, but it was a determination. He was a kṣatriya. His determination... And Kṛṣṇa fulfilled it. But from his part, when he saw Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "My dear Lord, I don't want anything. I have got You now." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42].



*Actually, when one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means one can see Kṛṣṇa every moment. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who have developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love of Kṛṣṇa, they always see Kṛṣṇa. They do not see anything except Kṛṣṇa. That is described by Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. He is drinking water but seeing Kṛṣṇa: "Oh, this taste of water is Kṛṣṇa." He is eating prasādam: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He has given me so nice prasādam." So actually Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that he always sees Kṛṣṇa in every activity. He has no other vision. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti sarvatra sphuraya tāra iṣṭa-deva mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. A devotee is seeing the tree, but he is not seeing the tree. He will see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is working, that "Here is a tree, and it is so nice." He sees everything, everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha. Everything. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava is eulogized that vāñchā-kalpataru. He... Because he can give Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, kṛṣṇa se tomāra kṛṣṇa dite pāra. He is begging Vaiṣṇava, "Sir, Kṛṣṇa is yours. You can deliver Kṛṣṇa." Dhai tava pāche pāche: "Therefore I am after you, because you can deliver Kṛṣṇa." And in the Brahma-saṁhitā also it is said, vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. If you want to achieve Kṛṣṇa by studying all the Vedas, it is very difficult, but if you approach a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he can deliver you Kṛṣṇa: "Take it immediately." Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. Therefore Vaiṣṇava is vāñchā-kalpataru. He can fulfill all the desires of our life because he can deliver Kṛṣṇa.

*So in our paramparā system we are trying to create some Vaiṣṇavas in the world. There are many industrialists, many scientists, many philosophers, many politicians, diplomats, and leaders*-so many things. They are trying also to solve the problems of the world in different ways, but they cannot do anything. It is impossible. They cannot do anything. They are themselves blind. They do not know actually what is the objective of life. So what they can give you? They can simply create problems. That's all. Ugra-karma. By engaging you in pungent, karmī activities, life becomes most miserable. So this verse,

*vāñchā*-kalpatarubhyaś ca

*kṛpā*-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo...



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.]



So Vaiṣṇava is the patitānāṁ pāvana... Fallen. Fallen means when one falls down from his actual position. That is called fallen. So every conditioned soul is fallen because he has fallen down from his actual position. What is his actual position? The position is that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is the constitutional position of living entity. But he has fallen means he has given up the service of Kṛṣṇa and he has taken the service of māyā, means so many things. Somebody is serving country, society, friendship, love, and so many things. They have created service. At last dog service, cat service. But because they have forgotten Kṛṣṇa's service, therefore they are called fallen. These fallen conditioned soul are claimed by the Vaiṣṇavas. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. That is Vaiṣṇava's duty.



*So you are doing your best to do this service, Vaiṣṇava, in this remote village. Our Sudāmā Prabhu is trying to give service to Kṛṣṇa. Our position is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. We can give service from anywhere, from any position. It doesn't matter where we are. Because everything is Kṛṣṇa's property, everywhere Kṛṣṇa is there, so wherever we get possibility of rendering our service... So the literature distribution... So kindly stick to this service attitude. Never be misled by the allurement of māyā. Engage. Remain engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service wherever you are. Kṛṣṇa will see. We don't want any recognition from anyone else. We want recognition by Kṛṣṇa and His devotee. That's all. If they are satisfied, then our success, life success. So this place, you all a little distant from the city, but we are not concerned with the city. We are concerned for distributing this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I have learned that there is a train service from here, it takes only forty*-five minutes, forty-three minutes. So this place is very nice. It is... And expenditure according to our means. That is all right. When Kṛṣṇa will give us better place... This is also. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is at, that is better. That is best.

*So my point is that you are all Vaiṣṇavas, try to do something good to the people, because they are all suffering. All suffering. For want of, lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness they do not know what is the aim of life, what is to be achieved. Simply they are working hard like hogs and dogs for sense gratification. They have no other ambition. They do not believe in the next life although it is a fact there is next life. And they do not know. They are not educated there is next life. How much irresponsibly we are working. Nature's law is very stringent. If you work irresponsibly, then you can, you have to accept... Sadā tad*-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]. If you become attached to this material enjoyment, then you will have to accept a body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. You have to accept. But this education is not there, whole world. So simply these Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they are trying to educate people on this point. So it is sometimes very distressing, but never mind. Nothing is be distressed. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of distress. Simply do your best and people will surely be benefited wherever you go. A Vaiṣṇava, wherever he goes, he makes the place sanctified. Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. And kṛpā-sindhu. What these materialistic men can do mercy to the others? They cannot do anything. Here is the real mercy, to awaken a person to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real mercy, because for want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness he is suffering millions and millions of years. Sometimes he is becoming tree like that. Suppose here is a tree; it is standing for thousands of years. So in this way they're simply suffering. This transmigration of the soul, the soul is suffering. Vaiṣṇava is giving you information that "Why you are suffering? You just accept your original position, eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. You become happy." This is Vaiṣṇava. Why you are suffering?

So māyā is there. Māyā does not want to lead (leave?) the culprits. Because one who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a culprit, so māyā wants to give such person more and more trouble. But Vaiṣṇava risks his life to snatch him from the hands of māyā. So māyā, of course, when he sees that "This man, this living entity, is now corrected; he is now taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness," then she will not disturb.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



Māyā etāṁ... Māyā, she is the most sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa. She wants to chastise. Just like police. Police want to chastise a person unless he comes to his consciousness that he must abide by the laws of the state. That is police business. Otherwise police is not enemy. Similarly, māyā is not our enemy, but she has got a thankless task with that trident. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us the knowledge that "You surrender unto Me, and māyā will not trouble you." Māyām etāṁ taranti te. So we are giving this information, that "You rascal, you are trying to be happy by your material plan. You will never be happy. Don't be fooled. You have been befooled so many lifetimes. Now just make an experiment in this life. Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and see whether you are becoming happy or not. Why not make...?" This is our method. That's all. It is very simple thing. You have tasted your life for so many years. Now why not taste this also? In this way, peacefully we have to execute our devotional service. And the more you do, more you become strong, more Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon you.



*So our business is very nice, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are happy. We are para*-upakārī. We are doing good to others. That is puṇya-karma, pious activities. So keep yourself in this attitude. Never mind where you are situated. We are not concerned with a particular place or country or society. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇa. And everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, wherever we go. We are here. We are not in Japan. We are in Vaikuṇṭha, this temple. We are in Vaikuṇṭha. And we are doing the service of Kṛṣṇa, that Vaikuṇṭha service. So in this way, with this attitude, go on preaching. I am very pleased that you are doing your best. That I want.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



720428LE.TOK

Lecture Excerpt

-

Tokyo, April 28, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Which one next? This is the original problem. Even the greatest scientist, one who wants to discover something... It is not that somebody wishes to do something, to discover*-it immediately comes out. No. He finds it difficult; therefore he makes researches how to do it. So when he is very keen and persistent, then from within, the Paramātmā, when He sees that "This man wants to do it," so He gives him direction, "Yes, you do like that." He is not actually inventor or discoverer. He is not. He tried. "Man proposes; *God disposes." Here is the Brahmā's problem is also. If Brahmā is self-sufficient to create, why he is in perplexity? He is in perplexity. Lord Brahmā, the first spiritual master, supreme being, supreme*-he is supreme-could not trace out the source of his lotus... He could not trace out wherefrom he is born, and what to speak of other things. This is our intelligence. We do not know wherefrom we have come and where we have to go and why we are suffering. And we are proclaiming ourself M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C. and so on. But we do not know wherefrom we have come. Anyone, a scientist, any scientist, big scientist, M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C., ask him that "Wherefrom you have come and where you will go?" He cannot answer. He will think that "I have come from the womb of my mother. That's all." "Wherefrom you came to the womb of your mother?" "The father injected." "Where your father got you?" These answers he will give.



*So this is the problem. Nobody is self*-independent. Everyone is dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Everything. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2], in Bhagavad-gītā: "I am the origin of all the demigods." The Brahmā is also demigod. Brahmā is born out of the lotus stem which is grown from the abdomen of Viṣṇu. So he has to find out the source of his birth. That is stated here. "Could not trace out the source of his lotus seat. And while thinking of creating the material..." Now, he was to create. He was born, he was given birth, just to assist Viṣṇu to create. Then he could not understand the proper direction how to create. These are the actual problems. Everyone is trying to create. The creative energy is there in every living entity because he is part and parcel of the original creator. But he cannot create independently. These rascals, they do not... They will say, "accident," "necessity..." What is that rascal? He has written book.

Devotee: Chance and Necessity.



*Prabhupāda: Chance and Necessity. If you feel some necessity and there is a chance by physical labor(?)... The rascal does not know the chance is not the physical. The chance is given by Kṛṣṇa, that "You are so much anxious for this? All right, here is the way. You come on." They take it: "It has taken by chance, accident, accidental." There are many chemists who are discovering many compositions, mixing this liquid in a test tube. All of a sudden they see it has come successful*-they take it as chance. So therefore their rascal brain cannot understand that it is the chance... It is not chance. It is an opportunity given by Kṛṣṇa to you: "You are so much laboring hard. All right, do it." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15], in the Bhagavad-gītā: "I give you. I give that intelligence." They take it as chance. There is no question of chance. There is no question of chance. When you become perplexed, you want to do something, Kṛṣṇa gives you the opportunity: "All right, do it like this." That is His mercy.



*There is no question of chance. There is nothing like chance. This is foolish proposition. Everything... Just like this flower is coming. So there is immense manufacturing process. Suppose if you want to manufacture a flower like this, you have to secure so many things*-the color, the ingredient, the paper, the brush, so many. Still, you cannot do like this. So if your nonsense, artificial flower takes so many instrumental assistance, brain, how do you think that this has come automatically? There is brain. It is not chance. You have no eyes to see. Therefore you call "chance." But a devotee, he sees. He does not see this flower; *He sees the hand of Kṛṣṇa, how He is preparing, how He is preparing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore a devotee does not see anything except Kṛṣṇa because he sees the craftsmanship, hands of Kṛṣṇa, how He is preparing. He sees Kṛṣṇa. He does not see this flower. The rascal sees this flower, and he thinks that it is coming out by chance. No chance. There is no question of chance. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. His intelligence, His energies, are so subtle and working. Just like we have got so many examples, electronics. There is one typewriter there, and there is one typewriter here. And one pushes the key there, and here it is "kut." So the one who does not know, rascal, he says, "It is chance." Not chance. There is electronic working. They have discovered something, how Kṛṣṇa's energies are working, this electronic. Just like television working. One man talking five thousand miles away, and the man is seeing. By electronic, it is immediately transferred. Now, the fool will see, "It is chance. It is chance." No. There is work, but you cannot see how the method and process of the work is going on. There is everything working. Not chance. There is no question of chance. Everything is there, but Kṛṣṇa's power, energy, is so subtle, so inconceivable by us, we cannot understand. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't take it as chance." Mayādhyakṣa: "Under My superintendence. I am directing direction." Here is direction. He could not find out the direction. He could not understand the proper direction. The direction has to be taken from Kṛṣṇa, then everything will be done. Otherwise, there is no question of chance, or what is that? Necessity? Chance... No. There is nothing like that. There is nothing like miracle. For me it is miracle. Just like somebody asking me some money. So I have no money. I simply write here that "Go to Śyāmasundara," and if you present the slip, then, and he gives immediately one hundred dollars. So he will think, "It is chance that a simple little paper produced hundred dollars." He... Foolishly, he may think that "There is something magic. He has written something." But no; there is some arrangement. There is no question of chance. Everything, there is arrangement; *everything is direction. But our insufficient brain... Because with our tiny brain we think that "We are all successful." We are all perplexed. Therefore, we rascals, we take it as chance and necessity, and like that. There is no chance. Even Brahmā could not*-the actual creator of this universe. What you have created? He has created so many planets. So he could not, and what we are?

So these are rascaldom only. There is no question of chance, there is no question of accident. Everything is working under subtle laws, under subtle direction of Kṛṣṇa. Read it. If you understand Kṛṣṇa... Just like I was speaking that the devotee does not see how the flower is growing. He sees Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like a painter is painting some flower and I am seeing, so similarly, he sees Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's hand in it. That is explained here. What is that? And as soon as you know the Lord, then you know everything. That is Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti: "Knowing whom, one can understand everything very easily." Then?

Pradyumna: "One who knows the..." [break]



Prabhupāda: Therefore our process is to know everything through Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect knowledge. Or through Kṛṣṇa's representative. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise, śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Śrama, śrama means laboring. Śrama eva hi kevalam. So, I think one verse is all right. Have kīrtana. (end)





720429LE.TOK

Lecture

-

Tokyo, April 29, 1972,

(with interpreter)



Prabhupāda: (translated into Japanese throughout) So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is on a different platform than this matter. It will be easier to understand that distinction between living body and dead body. So we are talking of the living portion of our existence. The living portion... We have got a living force within this body. Everyone can understand. As soon as that living force is out of this body, this body has no longer any value. It is thrown away on the street. So without any knowledge of the living force within this body, if we simply take care of our body, it is just like decorating a dead body. So do not take this movement as a sectarian, religious movement. It is practically a movement to bestow the essential knowledge of life to the human society.



*So religion is a kind of faith, but faith can be changed. But the knowledge which is essential in life, that cannot be changed. Therefore this culture, although it appears like a religious system, but it is the essential knowledge of life. Religion or faith, you can change from one to another, but you must know the essential value of your life. And because we have no, I mean to say, connection at the present moment with the essential knowledge of life, we are thinking that you are separate from me, I am separate from you. Just like we are all human being, but for want of adequate knowledge, I am thinking, "I am Indian," you are thinking you are Japanese, somebody is thinking he is American, and yet another is thinking that he is something else. Actually we are one. We are energy of Kṛṣṇa, or God. So, just like in dream I accept a different position, forgetting my real identification, and I think that I have gone far away from home, and I am flying, or I am in the forest-so many things I may dream-but that is not actual fact. So this movement is practically awakening the human society dreaming in sleep. Just like if a man is sleeping very sound, forgetting his duty, and some friend of the man is trying to awake him, "Mr. such and such. Please wake up. It is now morning. You have to do this thing, that thing." So this movement is like that. When a man is fast asleep, all other senses cannot work, but one sense, which is called ear, it can work. Just like you are sleeping and somebody is coming with a knife to kill you. You cannot see. The man can come and kill you. But if somebody cries, "Mr. such and such, wake up! Somebody is coming to kill you," you can use your ear and be precautious. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is something like that, awakening from the slumbering state of material consciousness. So more you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare*-the more you become awakened from the slumbering state of material existence.

*So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This is Sanskrit word. It is meaning that "This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will cleanse your heart." Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. So as soon as the heart is clean, then all our material problems are solved. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni, the Sanskrit word, means that "This material world is just like a forest fire." So forest fire... I think all of you must have got some knowledge of forest fire. It takes place automatically. And you can very easily experience that we are living very peacefully, but by the dealings of the politicians, at any moment there can be war. So this war is just like forest fire. Nobody likes war, but it takes place. So similarly, in the forest, nobody goes to set fire, but it takes place. Therefore this material world is compared with the forest fire. So this forest fire can be extinguished by a different process than the fire in the ordinary way extinguished. Just like in the city, if there is fire, you can take advantage of the fire brigade or you can take advantage of some volunteers carrying bucketful of water. But to extinguish the forest fire, neither you can take the help of the fire brigade nor the volunteer carrying bucketfuls of water. The forest fire can be extinguished when there is rainfall from the sky. Similarly, this misunderstanding of the world-although we are one, but we have divided ourselves in so many groups*-this will create forest fire, and this forest fire can be extinguished. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just like falling of rain from the cloud. Yes. The cloud means a process which collects water from the sea and distributes all over the surface. And the same water again glides down through the river unto the sea. Similarly, this movement means taking mercy from the ocean of mercy of Kṛṣṇa and distribute it all over the world, so that again the merciful water goes down to the sea. So those who actually want peace or mercy of God, they should kindly try to understand the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And even though you have no time to understand this philosophy through books of knowledge, you can simply join with us for chanting and dancing this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

*So I am very glad that you are joining with this movement, and the more you come to us and chant with us and dance with us, your spiritual life will be invoked. That spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is there in everyone's heart, dormant. It has simply to be awakened. Just like the European and American boys who have come to your country, four years ago they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. So now they are dancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that we have bribed them to dance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Their dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness has been awakened. Similarly, this same Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there within your heart. It doesn't matter whether you are Indian or Japanese or European. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart. By this process it can be awakened. And as soon as it is awakened... It is practically proved. When you are here, you are dancing in ecstasy. That means it is being awakened. So simply by trying to understand, or simply by coming here and joining this chanting and dancing and taking little prasādam, gradually your consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, also will be awakened. So chanting, dancing, and taking prasādam are universal formula, and we have experienced everywhere in the world. In Europe, America, Australia, Africa, Canada, in Japan*-everywhere it is being proved that simply by chanting, dancing, and taking prasādam, everyone is coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So there is a great need of awakening this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world because people, being lost of this consciousness, are creating only problems of life. So I thank you very much for your coming here and taking part with this festival.

Thank you very much. (end)



720501LE.TOK

Lecture

-

Tokyo, May 1, 1972



*Prabhupāda: This material existence, which we are now passing through, is not our actual existence. There is a Bengali Vaiṣṇava poet. He said... Generally, the question is raised: "How the living entities became fallen in this material world?" The Māyāvādī philosophy, they say that we are the same with God, but we are now covered by māyā, and as soon as we are free from this māyā's covering, we become again one with the Supreme. This is Māyāvāda philosophy. Practically, the Vaiṣṇava philosophy, also the same, but only difference is that the jīvātmā, he is eternal servant of the Supreme Lord. Actually, if we scrutinizingly study, our constitutional position is to render service. Any one of us who are sitting here, everyone is servant. Nobody can say that "I am master." We are thinking like master, but actually we are all servants*-anyone-either you are servant of your family or you are servant of your country or you are servant of your senses. Everyone, at the present moment, we are servant of the senses, servant of this body. And gradually our illusion expands. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This material world, it is explained by Vaiṣṇava philosopher:



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*Māyā is nothing but an illusion which is covering my Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is called māyā. I am... Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities, they are My parts and parcels, sanātana, not that they have now become servant of Me by material contact, but they are eternally servant." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa: [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109] "The real identity of the living entity is that he is eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa." When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].



*So actually we are still servant although we have rejected servitude of Kṛṣṇa. That is our rebellious condition. Every one of us, all living entities within this material world, they are more or less rebellious condition. We don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa. I want to become Kṛṣṇa. That is māyā. That is the last snare of māyā. First of all, in our karmī life we want to become master of the world. I want to lord it over the material nature. That is our struggle. Everyone is trying, "I shall become the master." Nobody wants to become servant. That is māyā. But actually he is serving. That is our position. Try to understand. We are serving our senses whimsically. I want to become this. I want to become that. First of all I want to become a big businessman, or I want to become a prime minister. I want to become the president. And when I am frustrated, then I want to become God. That want-"I want to become master"*-is going on. So this is also māyā. How one can become God? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Nobody can become equal to God or greater than God. Asamaurdha. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is described as asama urdha. "Nobody is equal to God, and nobody is greater than God." Asama urdha.

*So this disease, this is called material disease. I want to lord it over the material nature, and when I fail to lord it over, then I want to become one with God. Of course, there are five kinds of liberation: sāyujya sārūpya sāmīpya sālokya. By liberation you can become one with God. That is not very difficult. If you want to become, merge into the existence of God, that is not very difficult job. God is all-powerful. You are emanation from God. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So if you want to... Sāyujya mukti. If you want to finish your individuality and merge into the existence of God, that is not very difficult job. Even the enemies of Kṛṣṇa-Kaṁsa, Jarāsandha, Dantavakra, Śiśupāla, and many demons-they also merged into the existence of Kṛṣṇa. The enemies also given the liberation to merge into the existence of Kṛṣṇa. That is not very difficult job. But to keep your individuality and serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is your actual position, constitutional position. That mukti... The Vaiṣṇava philosophers, they want that mukti. They want to keep... Nitya-yukta upāsate. Nitya-yukta. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, nitya-yukta upāsata. The upāsana, the worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead-man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]*-this is not stopped after liberation. The same business goes on. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Vaiṣṇava, even if he is offered mukti... Dīyamānaṁ na gṛhṇanti. Even if he's offered that "You take mukti," they do not accept it.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu said in His prayer to the Supreme Lord,

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

[Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]



*Na dhanaṁ na janam. The karmīs, they are hankering after wealth, riches, great following, great dependents. Na dhanaṁ na janam. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I don't want. I don't want riches. I don't want many followers." Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. Another demand of the karmīs is that "I must have very nice, beautiful, obedient wife." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No, I don't want that." Na dhanam. This is finishing materialism. In the material world people want these three things: dhanam, janam, and sundarīṁ kavitām. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. "Then mukti, You take mukti?" "No." Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī: [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4] "I don't want to finish My repetition of birth and death also." That is called mukti. Mukti means stopping the repetition of birth and death. So those who are hankering after... The jñānīs, the jñānī*-sampradāya, they want to merge into the existence of the Supreme Lord. But that merging is possible in the brahmajyoti. Brahmajyoti. The Absolute Truth is divided into three. Actually He is not divided. Because He is absolute, He cannot be divided. But according to the, I mean to say, realizer, somebody is realizing the Absolute Truth as impersonal Brahman, somebody is realizing the Absolute Truth as localized Paramātmā, and somebody is realizing Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, most beautiful, lovable object. So the Bhāgavata Purāṇa says, vadanti tat tattva vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. There is no difference between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. It is only the different features of realization. If you want to realize the Absolute Truth by your imperfect senses... We should always know that our senses are always imperfect. Just like we are very much proud of seeing with my own eyes. We say sometimes, challenge, "Can you show me God? Can you show me this or that?" But we do not know how much imperfect are our eyes. We are seeing every day the sun, but we are seeing it just like a disk. But actually the sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet. We cannot see. If there is (indistinct), immediately there is darkness, we cannot see. Unless there is light, sunlight or electric light or moonlight, we cannot see. We cannot see our eyeballs. We cannot see the eyelid, nearest. Longest, longest we cannot see; *nearest we cannot see. Therefore we should not be very much proud of our seeing directly, direct perception. So direct... Anyone who is trying to understand the Absolute Truth by direct perception, he can rise up to the impersonal Brahman understanding, not more than that. And those who are trying to understand the Absolute Truth within his heart, just like yogis... Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. The yogi, by meditation, being in samādhi, they are seeing the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, within the heart. Dhyānāvasthita. And those who are devotees, they are seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Arjuna is seeing, personally, face to face: Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the origin of everything.



*As it is explained in the Vedānta*-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. What is Absolute Truth? This human form of life is meant for understanding what is Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is human form of life. The cats and dogs cannot inquire about what is Brahman. That is not possible. This human form of life, they can inquire. Inquisitiveness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And immediately reply, the Vedānta-sūtra, "Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is that which is the source of everything." Janmādy asya [SB 1.1.1]. Now that reply is given by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā:

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Budhā. Budhā means one who is actually in knowledge, one who is actually in understanding. Such person, he knows that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedānta*-sūtra gives hint that "Absolute Truth is that which is the original source of emanation of everything." That Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa. He says further, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "Beyond Me, there is no other superior authority or truth."



So in another place Kṛṣṇa says,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*"Out of many million of persons, one is interested how to make this life, human life, successful..." Everyone is interested how to enjoy senses, sense gratification. But that is the business of the animals. The animals, they do not know anything beyond their sense gratification. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca, sāmānyam etad paśubhiḥ narāṇām. The sense gratification business is equal in human being and animal. The animal eats, and human being also eats. The animal sleeps, a human being also sleeps-maybe in nice compartment, but the sleeping business. The animal eats directly anything, whatever he gets; *we make palatable dishes for satisfaction of our tongue. We kill many animals and eat them. So that may be the difference. Otherwise the eating business of the animal and the human being is the same. Similarly, sexual intercourse. The dog can freely have sexual intercourse on the street. The hog can have sexual intercourse on the street and without any discrimination whether mother, sister, or anything. That is hog life, dog life. But a human being has the same sexual desires but little decently. That is the difference. So the śāstra says that if you become simply engaged in these four kinds of business*-eating, sleeping, mating and defending-then you are no better than animal. Your business is brahma-jijñāsā. Try to understand what is Brahman. That is your business. The Kṛṣṇa replies in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Even if you want to understand the impersonal Brahman, you have to search out wherefrom this effulgence is coming. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā:



*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement*-important in this sense, that we are educating people without any discrimination about Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. And actually, as we understand from the Bhagavad-gītā, if we simply can understand what is Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says, that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām... [Bg. 7.3]. It is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But still, Kṛṣṇa is understandable if we simply follow the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. Actually there are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world, about six hundred, seven hundred in America, in Japan, in England. I have seen so many editions, English editions, what to speak of other language editions. So anyway, the malinterpretation is going on. We have, therefore, published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, without any malinterpretation. Our business is to present Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. We say that, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. What Kṛṣṇa says Himself, we simply carry the message. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Just always think of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "just become My devotee," and man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, "just worship Me and offer your respectful obeisances unto Me. In this way you shall come back to Me." So we are teaching that, that... We are teaching our students that "Always think of Kṛṣṇa." Smārtavyaṁ satato viṣṇuḥ. Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa, the same category.



*So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, very easy. There is no need of education, there is no need of becoming very wealthty or very intelligent. Anyone, even a child, can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So each time you pronounce the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, you remember Him, the smārtavyaḥ satato viṣṇuḥ. Ante nārāyaṇa*-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. If by practicing this, at the time of death, if we can remember Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. Then our life is successful, ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ, if you can remember simply Nārāyaṇa at the time of death. Because next life means the mental position of your life at the time of death. Whatever mental position you put yourself, that is your next life. That is your next life. Yad yad... What is that? Yad yad bhāvam. I forget that verse. At the time of death, whatever you think, that is your next life. I prepare my next life in this life. That is in the hands of the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. As we associate, guṇeṣu... It is also described in this Bhāgavatam, ramamāṇaḥ asyā guṇeṣu. We are now enjoying in the company of different modes of material nature. Some is enjoying life in company with the modes of material nature, goodness, and some is enjoying the modes of passion, and some is enjoying the modes of ignorance. There are three qualities: sattva, rājaḥ, tamaḥ. Sattva is translated as goodness, rājaḥ as passion and tamaḥ as ignorance. And according to these guṇas, different people are there. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā: catur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. As we associate with different types of guṇas, we make our position like that. So those who are in the sattva-guṇa, they are called brāhmaṇas. Those who are in the rajo-guṇa, they are called kṣatriyas. Those who are mixed guṇas, they are called vaiśyas. And those who are in the tamo-guṇa, they are called śūdras. These are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So our aim of life should be how to transcend all these guṇas. Trai-guṇya-viṣayā vedā nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna. Kṛṣṇa advises Arjuna that "The Vedic knowledge or this whole material creation is mixed up with three kinds of the modes of material nature. So you have to transcend." Nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna. And what is the process to put ourself in that transcendental position? That transcendental position is sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. What is that? Māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Anyone who is situated in the bhakti-yoga process, especially mentioned, bhaktyā māṁ abhijānāti, you can understand Kṛṣṇa simply by this bhakti-yoga process. Kṛṣṇa never meant jñāna-yoga or dhyāna-yoga or karma-yoga process. He especially meant that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you have to accept this bhakti-yoga process. There are many thousands of yogic processes, but if you want to know Kṛṣṇa, if you want to know God, then you have to take to this bhakti-yoga process.

*That is also indicated by Arjuna. When Arjuna was being advised, he was assured that... Why Kṛṣṇa was advising about Bhagavad*-gītā to Arjuna? He was a gṛhastha, householder, a kṣatriya, fighter, warrior. He was not a Vedāntist, neither he had any time to study Vedas. He was a gṛhastha. Study of Vedas is the business of the brāhmaṇas. So he was not a brāhmaṇa. But still, Kṛṣṇa said that "Still, I am instructing you this Bhagavad-gītā, rahasyam etad uttamam. The most confidential, secrecy, mystery of Bhagavad-gītā is difficult to understand, but I am instructing you." "Why? Why You have selected me?" Bhakto 'si: "Because you are My devotee." This is the only qualification to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise, unless one is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot understand the confidential teachings of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Fourth Chapter,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. The Bhagavad-gītā, the process is given there, how to study Bhagavad-gītā*-by the paramparā system, not by your whimsical way. You must hear from the authorized person. Just like Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: "I instructed this Bhagavad-gītā philosophy to sun-god, and he instructed to his son Manu. And Manu instructed to his son Ikṣvāku." So in this way you have to study. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam. So if you want to study Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, then you should study immediate paramparā. Arjuna was present. Arjuna was personally instructed by Kṛṣṇa. And you should catch up how Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa.



That is explained in the Tenth Chapter. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam: [Bg. 10.12] "You are the Supreme Personality, puruṣam, the supreme enjoyer. Śāśvatam. Not that at the present moment. Eternally You are the enjoyer." And Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, also says the same thing in another place:

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*People are hankering after śānti, peace, but they do not know the way. The way is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. What is that? Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ: "I am the supreme enjoyer of everything." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of everything." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: [Īśo mantra 1] "God is the proprietor of all planets." But we are claiming that "I am proprietor. We are proprietor, nationally." That is our mistake. Actually, everything belongs to God. Now, the Japanese claiming that "Japan is our country." Indians are claiming, "India is our country." But nothing belongs either to the Japanese or to the Indians or to the Americans. Everything belongs to God. This consciousness is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If we understand three things only, that God is the only proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is the only proprietor, He is the only enjoyer, and we are simply servant to help Him in His enjoyment... The highest perfection is found in Vṛndāvana. Everyone is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is real life. That is real mukti. In the Bhāgavata it is said, mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti means you have to give up your artificial ways of life and you have to situate yourself in your normal constitutional position. That is called mukti. Mukti hasn't got any other definition. Mukti means just like you are attacked with fever. If your fever is gone, then you are mukta, you are liberated from fever. Similarly, this disease, ahaṁ mameti... [SB 5.5.8]. I am in this material world, I am thinking this body as myself, I am identifying with this body, and according to that bodily relation, I am identifying my... Mamāham iti. There are thousands of women, but the one woman who has got bodily relationship with me, (s)he is my wife. There are thousands of children, but the one children or two children who has got bodily relation with me, they are my sons, my daughters. Mamāham iti manyate. Then our... First of all, this whole world is based on sex life, either in human society or animal society or bird society or tree society or aquatic society, any society, go. The central point is sex life. Sex life. And as soon as we unite with sex life, our, this bodily concept of life becomes more and more entangled. Then we want... Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam [SB 5.5.8].



*So actually, in this material existence we are forgetting our real constitutional position, that we are all eternal servant of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. But some way or other, we have come to this material world for enjoying, for lord it over the material nature. And that is not possible. You cannot lord it over. The Lord is Kṛṣṇa, but we are trying to be lord. And the endeavor, the labor which we are giving incessantly, that we are thinking happiness. The nature, the material nature, is putting stumbling block every time. That, to overcome the impediments offered by the material nature and our trial for overcoming that stumbling block, that is our endeavor. And we are thinking this is happiness. Just like you are making one high road and there is, material nature is offering a big hill, a big mountain before you. Now you have to make tunnel. You have to call for dynamite and try to penetrate through the hill. That struggle is known as advancement of material condition. That you cannot. In America and other materialistic countries we see-here also, in Japan*-they are laying down one kind of road for plying their motorcars. After some years it becomes a problem-another flyway, another flyway. So this is going on. This is called struggle for existence. We are trying to conquer over the stringent laws of material nature, and that labor, that useless spoiling our life, we are thinking that we are..., this is happiness. This is called māyā. We are actually giving service to the māyā instead of giving service to Kṛṣṇa. This is illusion.

*Now, if you change your consciousness, that "I have never been satisfied, happy, by giving service to the māyā. Now let me serve Kṛṣṇa," that is your liberation. That is your liberation. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You come under Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are actually struggling with material nature to become happy. But it is not possible to conquer over the material nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. It is very difficult. You cannot do it. Then how I can get from the clutches of the hands of material nature? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "You simply surrender unto Me," Kṛṣṇa says, "and you immediately get rid of this māyā." There are many greatly, great saintly persons. They are trying to get out of the clutches of māyā, to become liberated. But here is the simple process: simply you surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. He personally advocated. It is not that we are manufacturing in some way. It is spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself, that "You simply surrender unto Me, and immediately you are out of the clutches of māyā." Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.

So I do not wish to take much of your time, but the thing is that the whole world is struggling hard. They are not in peace. One man is enemy of another man. One nation is enemy of another nation. This is going on. This is... All these things are going on simply due to our forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. The same formula:

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*As soon as you forget your relationship with Kṛṣṇa, immediately there is māyā, and she will capture you. And the counterprocess is: as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, the māyā is gone. Just like it is said, kṛṣṇa sūrya*-sama māyā andhakāra [Cc. Madhya 22.31]. "Māyā is considered as darkness, and Kṛṣṇa is the sunlight, or sun." So wherever there is sun, there is no darkness. Similarly, wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, wherever there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no more darkness of ignorance. Tasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement. It is not a sentimental movement. It is authorized. It is based on Vedic conclusion. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Actually, the Vedas are meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, his studies of Veda is simply useless waste of time. And one who understands Kṛṣṇa simply, he has studied all the Vedas. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada-pañcarātra]. Kṛṣṇa also said that,



teṣām evānukampārtham

*aham ajñāna*-jaṁ tamaḥ

*nāśayāmy ātma*-bhāva-stho

*jñāna*-dīpena bhāsvatā

[Bg. 10.11]



*Do not think that those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, those who are fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are ignorant. No. Kṛṣṇa from within, He is giving intelligence. He gives intelligence to the devotees. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam [Bg. 10.10]. He will give. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Simply you have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, and everything will (be) supplied by Kṛṣṇa. Especially He says, teṣām evānukampārtham: "In order to show them special mercy." To whom? Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam If you engage yourself in the service of the Lord, bhajatām, with love and faith, then Kṛṣṇa is within you*-He will give you all intelligence. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. He gave the intelligence. That is... We are describing how He gave intelligence to Lord Brahmā, who is the creator of this universe.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is neither new nor any concocted manufactured thing. It is authorized, based on the Vedas, based on the Vedic authorities, and it is very simple and it has become simplified by the mercy of Lord Caitanya. Because Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa Himself. When Kṛṣṇa said that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], many fools and rascals could not accept it. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhā duṣkṛtina narādhamāḥ. Those who are miscreants, those who are lowest of the mankind, those who have lost their knowledge, they cannot. And those who are mūḍhas, rascals, they cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa again, in the form of a Kṛṣṇa devotee, Lord Caitanya, He came. He taught how to love Kṛṣṇa. Premā pum-artho mahān. That is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa-prema. You have to increase your love for Kṛṣṇa. We have got our love, dormant love, but that love is now being distributed in so many ways, and we are spoiled, we are frustrated. But if you concentrate your love, oh, upon Kṛṣṇa, then you will not only love Kṛṣṇa; *you will love the whole human society, whole living entities. That is Kṛṣṇa philosophy. So the process is very easy, given by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. You will increase ānandāmbudli. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. In this present age, in this Kali-yuga, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā, very simple. You may remain a family man. You may remain a renounced man. It is very difficult in the present age. Practically, sannyāsa is forbidden in this age. So you remain (in) your position. But our only request, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and gradually you will be emancipated, liberated. You will get your light. Everything will come one after another.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause) (end)



720518LE.LA

Lecture

-

Los Angeles, May 18, 1972





*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. As you know, from the very name, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness,"... When this society was registered in 1966 in New York, some friend suggested that the society may be named as "God consciousness." Kṛṣṇa, they thought that Kṛṣṇa... In the dictionary also, it is said, "Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god's name." In English dictionary. But actually, if there is any name or if there any name can be fixed up for God, it is Kṛṣṇa. God has practically no name. "No name" means He has name, but nobody knows how many names He has. Yes, that is the way. Because God is unlimited, therefore His names must be also unlimited. You cannot fix up one name. Just like Kṛṣṇa is sometimes called Yaśodā*-nandana, the son of Mother Yaśodā. That is quite all right, because He played the part of son of Yaśodā-mā. So Yaśodā-nandana means son of Yaśodā. Devakī-nandana, son of Devakī. Vasudeva-nandana, Nanda-nandana, Pārtha-sārathi. Pārtha-sārathi means He acted as the charioteer of Arjuna, Pārtha, the son of Pṛthā. Arjuna's mother's name was Pṛthā. So Arjuna's another name-Pārtha. And because He acted as the charioteer of Pārtha, His name is Pārtha-sārathi. So actually, Kṛṣṇa, or God, has many dealings with His many devotees, and that particular dealing may be called His name. Therefore... He has innumerable devotees, therefore He has innumerable names. You cannot fix up one name.



*But this Kṛṣṇa name means "all*-attractive." He attracts everyone. That is the real name, all-attractive. You have seen Kṛṣṇa's picture. He is attractive to the animals, cows, calves, birds, bees, trees, plants, water, in Vṛndāvana. He's attractive to the cowherds boy. He's attractive to the gopīs, He's attractive to Nanda Mahārāja, He's attractive to the Pāṇḍavas. He's still attractive to the whole human society. Therefore, if any particular name can be given to God, that is Kṛṣṇa. And Parāśara Muni, a great saint, father of Vyāsadeva, who compiled all the Vedic literatures, his father, Parāśara Muni, He gave definition of God:

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaḍ iti bhagaṁ ganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*By these six opulences, one can ascertain what is God. What are those opulences? That He's the proprietor of all riches. Here, we have got experience, one rich man. One may be very rich man, but nobody can say that he is the richest, there is no other man who is not richer than him. Nobody can say. But Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, those who have read Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, the history of Kṛṣṇa... We have described in our book, Kṛṣṇa. He had 16,108 wives. And each wife had a big palace, made of marble, bedecked with jewels, the furnitures made of ivory and gold. The descriptions are there. So in the history of the human society, you cannot find out any person who had 16,000 wives and 16,000 palaces. Not only that, it is not that He used to go to one wife's house one day, or one night. No. He was present in every one house personally. That means He expanded Himself in 16,108 forms. That is not very difficult. If God is unlimited, then He can expand Himself in unlimited forms; otherwise there is no meaning of unlimited. If God is omnipotent, He can maintain 16,000. Why 16,000? He can maintain 16,000,000's still, it is imperfect. Otherwise there is no meaning of omnipotency.



So, these are the attractive features. Here in this material world, if one man is very rich, he is attractive. Just like in your country, there are rich men, Rockefeller, Ford. They are very attractive, on account of their richness. So aiśvaryasya sama... Still... They do not possess all the wealth, riches of the world; still, they are attractive. So how much God will be attractive because He's the possessor of all the riches? Similarly, aiśvaryasya samagrasya, vīryasya, strength. Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, from the beginning of His birth He had to fight. When he was only three months old... He was lying down on the lap of His mother. There was a Pūtanā demon. She wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa, but she was killed. So that is God. God is from the very beginning God. Not that by some meditation, by mystic power, one becomes God. Kṛṣṇa was not that type of God. Kṛṣṇa was God from the very beginning of His appearance. Vīryasya.

Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya, yaśasaḥ, then reputation. His fame, reputation, is still going on. Apart from us... We are devotees of Kṛṣṇa. We may glorify Him. But apart from us, many millions of people are there in this world; *still, they know how much reputed and famous is Kṛṣṇa by His Bhagavad*-gītā. In all countries, all over the world. This Bhagavad-gītā is read by all philosophers, all scholars, all religionists. Still, those who are reading Bhagavad-gītā... There are many editions in your country. There are many editions. All of them are selling nicely. Our Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the latest report is from the trades manager of Macmillan Company, who are our publisher. The report is that our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is is increasing in sale, others are decreasing. The reason is that we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any adulteration. Anything, market, if the commodity is pure... Gold, if it is pure, it has more customers. Milk, if it is pure, it has got more customers. So that we are finding. Because we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we are finding more customers. So, this is the fame. And, yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ. Śriyaḥ, beauty. Kṛṣṇa is Himself very beautiful, and all His associates are very beautiful. That is also opulence.

*Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. In this material world, those who are pious-that means whose past background is pious life*-they get these opportunities, birth in good family, in good nation. Therefore I say so many times that you American people, your birth in a rich nation, your beauty, these are the result of your past pious activities. Attractive. These are attractiveness. You are attractive, the American nation. All over the world. Why? Due to this. You are advanced in scientific knowledge. You are advanced in riches. You are advanced in beauty. So these are the opulences. So this planet is an insignificant planet within this universe and within this planet, say, America is one country. And in that country, if there are so many attractive features, just imagine how much attractive feature must be there in God, who is the creator of the whole cosmic manifestation. How much He must be beautiful, who has created all beauties. Then aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). Śriyaḥ means beauty. Jñāna, and knowledge. If one man is perfectly advanced in knowledge, he's attractive. Some scientist, some philosophers, because they give nice knowledge, they're attractive. And Kṛṣṇa's knowledge, they're described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. You can study. You are studying. Now we are presenting in English translation sublime knowledge. There is no comparison in the world. And at the same time, vairāgya, renouncement. Not that because He has got so many things...

*Practically, Kṛṣṇa is not here within this material world. Just like a big man, his factory is going on, his business is going on, but it not necessarily he has to be present there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's potency is working. His assistants, His so many demigods, they are working. They're describe in the śāstra. Just like the sun. Sun is the practically cause of this material cosmic manifestation. That is described in the Brahma*-saṁhitā

*yac*-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

*rājā samasta*-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

*yasyājñayā brahmati sambhṛta*-kāla-cakro

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*Govinda, the sun is described as the eye, one of the eyes of God. He's seeing everything. You cannot hide yourself from the seeing of God, as you cannot hide yourself from the sunshine So, in this way, Kṛṣṇa. If God's name, there can be any name... And it is admitted in the Vedic literature that God has got many names, but this Kṛṣṇa name is the chief name. Mukhya. Mukhya means principal. And it is very nicely explained: "all*-attractive." In so many ways He's all-attractive. So God's name... The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is propagating God's name, God's glory, God's activities, God's beauty, God's love. Everything. As we have got many things within this material world, all of them, they are in Kṛṣṇa. Whatever you have got.



*Just like here, the most prominent feature in this material world is sex attraction. So that is there in Kṛṣṇa. We are worshiping Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, attraction. But that attraction and this attraction is not the same. That is real and here it is unreal. We are also dealing with everything which are present in the spiritual world, but it is only reflection. It has no real value. Just like in the tailor's shop, sometimes there are so many beautiful dolls, a beautiful girl is standing. But nobody cares to see it. Because everyone knows that "This is false. However beautiful it may be, it is false." But a living woman, if she is beautiful, so many people see her. Because this is real. This is an example. Here the so*-called living is also dead, because the body is matter. It is a lump of matter. As soon as the soul goes away from the same beautiful woman, nobody cares to see her. Because it is as good as the doll on the window of tailor shop. So real factor is the spirit soul, and because here everything is made of dead matter, therefore it is simply imitation, reflection. The real thing is in the spiritual world.

*There is a spiritual world. Those who have read Bhagavad*-gītā, they can understand. The spiritual world is described there, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. Bhāvaḥ means nature. There is another nature beyond this nature. We can see this nature up to the limit of the sky. The scientists, they're trying to go to the highest planet, but they are calculating it will take forty thousands of years. So who is going to live for forty thousands of years, go and come back? But there is planet. So we cannot calculate even the length and breadth of this material world, what to speak of the spiritual world. Therefore we have to know from authoritative sources. That authoritative source is Kṛṣṇa. Because we have already described, nobody is wiser or in knowledge than Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa gives this knowledge, that paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo [Bg. 8.20]. "Beyond this material world there is another spiritual sky." There are also innumerable planets. And that sky is far, far greater than this sky. It is one-fourth only. And the spiritual sky is three-fourths. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. This is only one-fourth, this material world. The other spiritual world is three-fourths. Suppose God's creation is one hundred. It is only twenty-five percent; *seventy*-five percent is there. Similarly, the living entities also, a very small fragmental portion of the living entities are here. And there, in the spiritual world, the major portion are there.

This material world is compared as a prison. So if you go to the prison house, it is not that the whole population of the country is within the prison house. No. A fragmental portion of the population, those who are criminals, they are in the prison house. Similarly, those who are criminals, those who have revolted against God, they are within this material world.

kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*Māyā... Just like here also, if we say, "I don't care for the government." Then what will be? So treason act. I'll be arrested, I'll be punished. Similarly, living entities are originally part and parcel of God. Just like father and son. The Christian people also understand, God is Supreme Father and we are all His sons. You go to church and pray, "God, give us our daily bread." Father. So that is conception in Bhagavad*-gītā also. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am father of all living entities." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*In all varieties of species of life... There are 8,400,000 species of life. The aquatics, the trees, the plants, the birds, the bees, the insects... Then human beings. And out of the human beings also, there are so many uncivilized. Civilized human beings are very few. And out of the civilized human beings, very few take to religious life. Very few. And out of these so-called religious human society, most of them, they simply designate, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," but they do not know about religion. And one who knows about-not knows, little attracted*-they are engaged in philanthropic work. To give help to the poor, or to open a school, hospital. This is called karma-kāṇḍa. Out of many millions of these karma-kāṇḍa people, one is jñānī. Jñānī means "one who knows." And out of millions of persons who know, one is liberated. And out of millions of liberated persons, one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. This is the position of Kṛṣṇa.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*So to understand Kṛṣṇa is little difficult. Actually, to understand God is a subject matter very difficult. But the God Himself is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad*-gītā. "I am this, I am like this. I am like this, this material nature is like this, this spiritual nature is like this, the living entities are like..." Everything are completely described in the Bhagavad-gītā. God Himself, giving His own knowledge, and that is the only process to understand God. Otherwise, by speculation we cannot understand God. It is not possible. He is unlimited and we are limited. Our knowledge, our perception, all of them are very limited. So how we can understand the unlimited? But if we accept the version of the unlimited, that He is like this, like that, then we can understand. That is perfect knowledge. Speculative knowledge of God has no value. Real knowledge, just like... I give this example. Just like if a boy wants to know who is father, who is his father, the simple thing is (to) ask mother. Or mother gives, "Here is your father." That is perfect knowledge. And if you speculate, "Who is my father?" and ask the whole city "Are you my father? Are you my father? Are you my father?" The knowledge will always remain imperfect. He'll never find out what is his father. But this simple process, if he takes the knowledge from (of) his father, the authority, mother, "My dear boy, here is your father," then your knowledge is perfect.



Similarly, transcendental knowledge... Just like I was speaking that there is a spiritual world. It is not the subject matter of our speculation. But when God says, "Yes, there is a spiritual world, that is My headquarters," that is all right. That is all right. Yes. So we receive knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the best authority. Therefore our knowledge is perfect. We are not perfect, but our knowledge is perfect. Because we receive knowledge from the perfect. The same example, that I am not perfect to understand who is my father, but my mother is perfect, and because I accept the perfect knowledge of my mother, therefore my knowledge of father is perfect. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for giving perfect knowledge to the human society: what He is, what is God, what is this material world, why you have come here, why you have to undergo so much tribulation, miserable condition of life, why I die. I do not like to die, but death is compulsory. I do not like to be old man, but still, it is compulsory. I do not like to suffer from disease, but it is compulsory. These, these are to be solved. That is really problems of human life.

Not that improving the method of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. That is not human life. A man sleeps a dog sleeps. So because a man sleeps in a very nice apartment, that does not mean he's advanced more than the dog. The business is sleeping. That's all. Because man has discovered atomic weapon for defending, and the dog has his nails and teeth... He can also defend. So defending is there. You cannot say that "Because I have got this atomic bomb, therefore I can conquer the whole world or whole universe." That is not possible. You can defend in your own way, and the dog can also defend in his own way. So a gorgeous method of defending, a gorgeous method of eating, a gorgeous method of sleeping, and a gorgeous method of sex life does not make a nation or a person advanced. That is not advancement. That is the same thing. Proportionately, five upon two thousand, or five, five hundred upon two thousand and five upon twenty, the same ratio. Therefore, the animal qualities in a polished way, in a scientific way, does not mean that the human society's advanced. That may be called polished animalism. That's all.

Real advancement means to know God. That is advancement. If you are lacking that knowledge, what is God... And because you cannot understand... There are so many rascals, they are denying the existence of God. That is very nice. If there is no God, then they can go on with their sinful activities unrestricted: "There is no God. Very nice." But simply by your denying, God will not die. God is there. God is there, His administration is there. By His order, the sun is rising, the moon is rising, the water is flowing. The ocean is abiding by His order. Everything under His order, everything going on nicely, without any change. How you can say God is dead? If there is some mismanagement, you can say there is no government, but if there is nice management, how you can say there is no government? So God is there. You do not know God. Therefore some of you say that "God is dead," "There is no God," "God has no form," "God is zero," so many things. But no. We are firmly convinced that there is God, and Kṛṣṇa is God, and we are worshiping Him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand it. Thank you very much...

Devotees: Haribol! (obeisances)



Prabhupāda: Kīrtana, kīrtana. Have kīrtana. (Kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda chants) (end)





720521LE.LA

Sunday Feast Lecture

-

Los Angeles, May 21, 1972





*Prabhupāda: What is the sound? Hm? You'll play mṛdaṅga, I'll sing. (sings Jaya Rādhā-Mādhava. Prema-dhvanī) So this is the true picture of God: Jaya rādhā-mādhava. Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī. He is simply enjoying, Rādhā-Mādhava. You have seen the picture, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So eternally engaged in enjoyment, in the association of the gopīs. Gopī-jana-vallabha. And His only business is how to please the gopīs. Just like here, in this material world, the young boy who loves a young girl, he tries to please the girl always. This is natural. Because originally, the same thing is there in God. It is a pleasure. It is a pleasure for the male to please the female counterpart. That is originally created. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī-śaktiḥ. These Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa love affairs is the originally there. Rādhārāṇī, the female counterpart, is the manifestation of ahlādinī-śakti, pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. God, God means with His potencies. Just like ordinarily, we are part and parcel of God, a minute particle; still, we have got so many potencies. Every man, every living entity... Not only man, the animals also, they have got various potencies, creative energy. So you just imagine how much creative energies and potencies are there in God. This is the understanding. If I am a little portion, part and parcel of God, I have got so much potencies... "I" means the human being. Or even animal. There are many animals, they have got... Just like a bird. He can fly in the sky without any mechanical arrangement. He has got the potency. You cannot. If you want to fly in the sky, then you have to make some machine. But a small insect, he is flying very freely, without any mechanical... You cannot make such a small machine like an insect. That is not. But God has given him potency, although he's a very insignificant small ant, insect, he can very freely fly. You cannot live within the water. If you want to live within the water, you have to make so many arrangements, submarine and this and that, so many things. But a small fish, he doesn't care even the ocean. Playing. A small fish. When I was walking on the beach of Hawaii, what is that animal with many le...?



Devotees: Crab.



Prabhupāda: Crab. So, when we were walking, they were flying towards the sea. They have got instinct, or reason, that "Somebody's coming. He may kill me. So let me have shelter of the Pacific Ocean." The crab is not going this side, to the forest, because he knows certain that "The forest cannot give me shelter; the Pacific Ocean can give me shelter." This is the psychology. I never seen the crab is going this side, forest side. It is going to the Pacific Ocean side. And, so far as I am concerned, as soon as the waves are coming, I am going away from the ocean. Although I am a human being, I cannot take shelter of the Pacific Ocean, because I have not the potency.



So in this way you have to study. We are samples of God, part and parcel. Just like you take little sample from the Pacific Ocean, a drop of water. You can taste it, and it is salty. You can understand the whole water is salty. Similarly, living entities, they are sample of God, small, very small. You can create one sputnik or jet plane, and you take so much credit, "Oh, I am flying in the sky." But why don't you give the credit to God, who is plying, flying millions of sputniks in the sky? Not small; *with so many mountains, seas, houses, trees, plants, and so many things. You can see so many things. The sun planet, the moon planet and others, so many other pla... Koṭiṣu vasudhādi vibhūti*-bhinnam. In each and every universe, there are millions of planets. Koṭiṣu, vasudhādi. Vasudha means planet.

*yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi-

*koṭiṣv aśeṣa*-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

*tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa*-bhūtaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.40]



*The brahmajyoti, yasya prabhā, is the bodily effulgence of God, Kṛṣṇa, Govinda. So on that effulgence, jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi, there are innumerable universes. It is not very difficult to understand. Just like you see, in the sunshine innumerable planets are floating. So what is the difficulty to understand that there is a shining effulgence from the body of God, Kṛṣṇa, and in that shining effulgence, innumerable universes are floating? What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. It is most scientific proposal.



*So these are the potencies of God. Not that I can show some magic and immediately I become God. Just see the magic, real magic of God. Don't accept cheap God. God must show godly magic. Just like we are showing little magic, floating some airplane or sputnik or jet in the sky. We are taking so much credit, so much credit that scientists are declaring, "There is no God. I am God, because I have made this airplane." And what is your airplane in comparison to these planets? So intelligent person, they will give more credit to God than to these scientists or philosophers. Because he can see the potencies, how much potency is there. So He has many potencies. In the Vedic literature we can understand, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. In the Vedas, Upaniṣad: na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. God has nothing to do personally. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Na tat*-samas cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Nobody is found equal to him or greater than Him. Nobody. That is God. If somebody is competitor, one God competitor, another God competitor... Just like nowadays it has become a fashion to become God, and there are competitions between one "God" and another. But actually, nobody can compete with God. That is God. Na tasya sama. Sama means equal. Adhikasya, or greater. That means greater. That means everyone subordinate. Everyone subordinate. Everyone is lower than God. He may be very powerful, but nobody can be equal or greater than God. That is the Vedic information. Na tasya sama adikasya dṛśyate. We don't find... They are also, great saintly persons, they're researching that who is the greatest personality. Greatest personality. So by research work by great saintly persons, especially by Lord Brahmā... He is the first creature within this universe. So he has found by his spiritual advancement and research work that Kṛṣṇa is the greatest. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. He gives his decision: "The greatest personality is Kṛṣṇa." Just like we are sitting, so many ladies and gentlemen here. We can analyze who is the greatest here. So, say, for arguing, you can accept that "You are the greatest." But I am not the greatest. I have got my spiritual master. He has got his spiritual master. He has got a spiritual master. In this way, we go up to Brahmā. Brahmā is the original spiritual master within this universe, who gave us the Vedic knowledge. He's therefore called forefather, er, grandfather, pitāmaha. But he's also not independent. In the Vedānta-sūtra or Bhāgavata it is said that Brahmā... He's the first creature. There was no other any other living entity when he was created first. So if I say that he also got knowledge from others, then the argument may be, "Who is the next person to give him knowledge?" So therefore Bhāgavata says, "No. He received knowledge from Kṛṣṇa." How? "From the heart." Tene brahma hṛdā. Hṛdā. Because God, Kṛṣṇa, is sitting in everyone's heart-your heart, my heart, everyone. And He can give you instruction. His name is therefore Caitya-guru. Caitya-guru means who gives conscience and knowledge from within. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "In everyone's heart I am sitting." Hṛdi, "within the heart"; sanniviṣṭo, "I am sitting there." Sarvasya. Not only you and me, even animals insects, birds, beasts, Brahma, everyone. Sarvasya. All living entities. So sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ: "from Me"; smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca, "remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness." Forgetfulness also. If you want to forget God, God will give you intelligence that you can forget God forever. He's so kind. Whatever you want, He will give you intelligence, "Do like this."

So there are two things. There are two living entities. One is trying to forget God, and another is trying to remember God. That's all. There are two kinds of people, or men. Men, not the animals. Animals cannot understand what is God. It is the business of human beings. So if you want to know God sincerely, seriously, then God is within yourself. He'll give you intelligence how you can know Him. But if you want to forget God, challenge God, "There is no God. God is dead," then He'll give you such intelligence that you'll always think that there is no God, that God is dead, like that. He'll give some arguments. There are so many atheists, they are also putting their arguments. So wherefrom the argument comes? It comes from God, that "You take this argument and forget God forever." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vedic knowledge means to understand God. That's all. One who has understood God, he has studied all Vedas. Finished. And one who has not understood God, simply studying this literature, that literature, that scripture, then he's simply wasting his time. That's all. Because (the) ultimate knowledge is God. If one cannot understand what is God after so much education, then Bhāgavata says, śrama eva hi kevalam: [SB 1.2.8] "It is simply labor, labor, waste of time." Simply waste of time. There is no education. Education, knowledge, means ultimately to understand, to know what is God. Actually; not fictitiously, vaguely. So there are many classes of men who have no understanding of God. Some of them are saying, "God is dead," or "God is impersonal," "There is no God," "Zero," "I am God," "You are God," so many things. All these people do not know what is God; *therefore there are different theories. Therefore, somehow or other, if you can understand God, then your life is successful. Somehow or other. Because this human life is especially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta*-sūtra... You have heard the name of Vedānta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means ultimate. The ultimate knowledge. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam: [Bg. 15.15] "The ultimate purpose of reading Vedas is to know Me."

*So who can read Vedānta philosophy? A very learned scholar he must be, at least, he must be very learned scholar in Sanskrit. He must have sufficient brain substance to understand what are these Vedānta*-sūtras. Because everything is there in a small aphorism. Just like the first aphorism of Vedānta-sūtra is athāto brahma jijñāsā. In three words: atha, ataḥ, brahma, jijñāsā. Four words. So it contains volumes of philosophy. The next aphorism is janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Janma, ādi, asya, yataḥ. "From whom," asya, viśvasya, "of this universe, cosmic manifestation." From where this cosmic manifestation has come, and where it rests, and where it will dissolve. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. In this way, Vedānta-sūtra means, gives you the whole purpose of Vedas, knowledge, in small code words. So to understand these code words, one must have very big brain, or very highly standard educational qualification. Then... All the ācāryas, those who are controlling Vedic civilization, like Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, they have all written their commentaries on the Vedānta-sūtra. Because unless one explains Vedānta-sūtra, he'll not be accepted as an authorized ācārya. He's not... Not that anyone can become ācārya. He must give explanation of the Vedānta-sūtra, prasthāna-traya. There is system. So ultimately, Vedānta-sūtra, as Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Sarvaiḥ means including Vedānta-sūtra. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. "I am to be understood." Why? Vedānta-kṛt vedānta-vit ca aham. Vedānta-kṛt, "I am the compiler of Vedānta-sūtra." Vedānta-sūtra was compiled by Vyāsadeva. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Dvaipāyana Vyāsa. So therefore, it is compiled by His incarnation, so it is compiled by Him. Because His incarnation, He is the same. So vedanta-kṛt means Veda..., compiler of the Vedānta, and the compiler of the compiler of the Vedānta is vedanta-vit, one who knows Vedānta. Because I have written some book, so I know what is the purpose of writing my book. You cannot know. My purpose you cannot know.

*There is a small instructive story in this-not story, fact*-in this connection. In Calcutta there was a great dramatist. He was very well known, government officer. He wrote one book, Shah Jahan. That is very famous book for theatrical play. So in that Shah Jahan, means the king emperor Shah Jahan, the... Practically, the name which is given on the book, the hero title, he's the hero. So one of the friends of Mr. D. L. Raya, he inquired from Mr. Raya that "In your book Shah Jahan, the actual hero is Aurangzeb. Why you have given the title Shah Jahan?" He could not understand it. So I'm just trying to explain that the purpose of the book must be known to the author, not others. So the author replied, "My dear friend, the actual hero is Shah Jahan, not Aurangzeb." Although the Shah Jahan book is full of the activities of Aurangzeb, the fact is that Shah Jahan was the emperor. He had many, four or five sons, and his wife died, Mumtaz, at an early age. You have seen, those who have gone to India, you have seen the Taj Mahal building. That building was constructed in the memory of that Mumtaz by Shah Jahan. He spent all his money for constructing that building. So it is one of the seven wonders of the world. So that Shah Jahan lost his wife at an early age. She (he) was very fond of his wife. And because, affectionate father, he did not very much chastise his sons, and he spent all his money in constructing the memory of his wife, so when the sons grew up, the third son, Aurangzeb, came out very crooked. And he made a plan how to usurp the empire. He killed his elder brother and other brothers. He arrested his father, Shah Jahan. So this is the book subject matter, Shah Jahan. So whole activities. But the author says that "Aurangzeb is not the hero; hero is Shah Jahan." Then he explained why. "Now, because Shah Jahan was living, sitting in the Agra Fort as a prisoner, and all the reactions of Aurangzeb's activities, killing of his other sons, usurping the empire, that was beating on his heart; therefore he was suffering. He is the hero."

*So this is an example. The author of a book knows very well what is the purpose of that book. That is my statement. Similarly, this Vedānta*-sūtra was compiled by Vyāsadeva, or Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, or Kṛṣṇa Himself. So He knows what is Vedānta-sūtra. So if you want to understand Vedānta-sūtra, then you must understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa says also that by studying all the Vedic literature, one has to understand Kṛṣṇa. And He also confirms... And Vyāsadeva explains Vedānta-sūtra in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because He knew that "Vedānta-sūtra, being authoritative version of Vedic literature, so many rascals will comment in different way. Therefore I must leave..." That was also done under the instruction of Nārada. He wrote personally a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyāyāṁ brahma-sūtrānāṁ vedārtha paribṛṁhitam. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the right commentary by the author Himself. And the vedārtha paribhṛmhitam the purpose of Vedas, the scheme of Vedic literature, is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this human life..., athāto brahma jijñāsā, means, the Vedānta-sūtra says, that "This life, this human life, is meant for understanding God." Brahma-jijñāsā. At least, not understanding, at least inquiring, jijñāsā. Jijñāsā means inquiring.

*So where the inquiry should be made? If I want to inquire about God, shall I go to the storekeeper or drug shop or a motor shop? No. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you want to know the transcendental science, then you must find out a guru. That is injunction. Jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam. Guruṁ prapadyeta. Tasmād prapadyeta guruṁ jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam. If you are actually inquisitive to understand higher science, uttamam... Uttama means higher. These are not higher sciences, how to earn some money. Earn some money, and eat something, and sleep, and have some sex life, and die*-this is not higher science. This is not higher science. Higher science is brahma-jijñāsā, to inquire about Brahman. That is higher science. This science, earning money and fulfilling the hungry belly, this science the birds and beast also know how to do it. It does not require much education. There is no scientific education how to enjoy sex life. Everyone knows how to do it. Similarly, there is no need of scientific education, how to eat or how to find out your food. The birds and beast, they are also finding out, and are they also eating. So these are not higher sciences. The higher science is to inquire, athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about God, the Supreme. And that can be done by the human being, not by others. Not the cats and dogs. So if we do not give education of this higher science to the human society, if we keep them dumb about this, or if we make secular state, prohibitive injunction to understand God, then it is an animal society. It is an animal society. So such things happen sometimes.

So there is a narration of King Vena. The King Vena happened to be an atheist king. So because that... The reason is given that his mother was the daughter of an atheist king. Narānāṁ matur lakṣānām. It is a scientific fact that a son inherits the quality of the mother, and a daughter inherits the quality of father. So the King Vena's mother inherited the quality of her father, and the Vena, King Vena, inherited the quality of grandfather, or mother. So he was atheist king, atheistic. When he become king... He was very powerful, strong, but atheist. So when he became king, because he was very powerful, he declared by drum beating... What is that?

na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ

na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit

iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ

*bherī*-ghoṣeṇa sarvaśaḥ

[SB 4.14.6]



*Bherī*-ghoṣeṇa means by sound of bugle. Formerly, when there was some declaration by the king, by the government, one should go in the marketplace and, the government men, and take a drum and one bugle, and they'll declare, "This is the law from this day." That's all. No more gazette. So, this is the old system. Somewhere it's still existing. So the Vena king declared that "These are all nonsense." What is this? Na yaṣṭavyam: "No more worship of God, no more sacrifice." Na dātavyam: "No more charity. Stop all this!" Na dātavyaṁ na hotavyam: "No more offering oblations to the fire, sacrifice." Dvijāḥ kvacit iti. This business was meant for the brāhmaṇas; *therefore, dvija, he's restricting the brāhmaṇas that "Don't do all this nonsense anymore." Dvijāḥ kvacit. Iti nyavārayad dharmam: "In this way he stopped all religious activities." Bherī*-ghoṣeṇa sarvaśaḥ.



*So formerly, the king was controlled by saintly persons, by priestly order. They would give the king advice. The Vedic society is divided into four classes of men. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. According to quality and work, there are four divisions of men: The brāhmaṇa, the intelligent class of men; the kṣatriyas, the administrative class of men, the martial class of men; and the vaiśyas, the productive class of men; *and the śūdras, the worker class of men. That is still existing in a different name, but the difficulty is, the classification is not made according to quality and work. That was the actual position of classification. Nowadays, a śūdra is on the government. A person who is a nonsense number one, he has no knowledge, he is on the head of the government. The things have been topsy*-turvied. A person on religious category, he's advocating something, oh, it is not to be uttered. Homosex. You see? He's advocating homosex. Just see. These has been topsy-turvied. The four classes of men are there, still. But the third-class, fourth-class man is taking the place of first class. And the first-class man is kicked out, "Go out. Don't talk of God." This is the position at the present moment. The classes are there. That is natural. There must be some first-class men, there must be some second-class men, there must be some third-class men, there must be some fourth-class men. But the difficulty is that the fourth-class man is taking the position of first-class man, and the first-class man is being kicked out. Therefore there are so many problems in the society. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. First-class man must be acting first class. But he's acting as last class, but he is posed in first class. Things have been topsy-turvied. So it is the duty of the government to find out the first-class man and employ him for first-class business, first-class activities. And what is that first-class activity? The first-class activity is athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is first-class activity. Otherwise, it is fourth-class activity. If the human society is not divided into right order, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. And it is the duty of the government to see that the first-class man is employed in first-class activities, the second-class man is engaged in second-class activities. Then the government will be nice. Now here, the Vena Mahārāja, he's on the head of the administration, royal king. Now he is advising, "Reject religion. No more charity, no more sacrifice, no more worship. Stop all this nonsense." Then what is the condition of the society? So that is being done.

*So it will take some time to explain about these activities of first*-class, second-class, third-class men. It is a great science. So we shall try to explain, one after another. You please come on Sunday. I shall hold this class. For the time being, excuse me.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



720607LE.LA

Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, June 7, 1972



*Prabhupāda: This is the secret. People are trying to bring in peace and prosperity in the world by so many activities*-philanthropism, altruism, nationalism, socialism. And so-called religion also, they are trying to bring in. The whole idea is the human society should remain in peace and prosperity. And the vivid example is the United Nations in your country. America invited all nations that "Let us form a community of United Nations," but the America herself is fighting. You see? Because the idea was there to unite, but they do not know the basic principle, how to unite. That is the defect. There is a church in the United Nations, and we tried to get a room there for making our propaganda. The church unity denied to give us. So their crippled mind is not expanded. Sa mahātmā... Mahātmā means broad-minded. Su-durlabhaḥ. So mahātmā, unless one becomes nonenvious, mahātmā, there is no question of so-called unity or fraternity. These are all false propaganda. It is not possible. But they will stick to that proposition, that "We have got this..." For the last twenty years... Why twenty years? More than twenty years. When this United Nations was started?



Viṣṇujana: Even... Right after World War One they began.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometime 1948, '47. Hm? Or earlier. Anyway, it is more than twenty*-five, twenty years. But what they have done? The people are still fighting. So here is the..., that we have to dovetail our service, we have to make Kṛṣṇa center. The Communists also, they tried to make by making the state as center. So that is also failure. Or the United Nations also. I do not know what is their center. Their center is politics, that's all.



*So in this way there cannot be complete harmony. Complete harmony will be possible only when you bring in Kṛṣṇa. That will be explained in the next verse. Īśāvasyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Unless you bring Kṛṣṇa, or īśa... Īśa means the supreme controller. He is actually controlling. Īśa. Īśa means the controller. So there is a supreme controller. We see in the, in our experience, that some of the objectives are living and some of them are not living. Animate or inanimate*-these two things we see in our experience. But above this animate and inanimate there is supreme animate. That supreme animate is called īśa. Īśa or īśvara means controller. So there are many īśvaras, or controllers, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. There are many controllers. Some of you are also controller, in charge of some department. Similarly, controller over controller, controller over controller-there are many. And go up to Brahma. The first creature within this universe is supposed to be the controller of this universe. But above him, there is another controller. That is Kṛṣṇa. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. The material scientists, they are finding out the sun is the cause of all material manifestation. Actually, that's a fact. But what is the sun? The sun is also being controlled. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā: Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejaḥ. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Savitā means the sun is the eye of the Supreme Lord, seeing everything. You cannot hide anything. The sun, the moon, the day and the night, everyone is seeing your activities. And besides that, the Lord is within you also. So where you shall hide your sinful activities? You cannot hide anything. You can hide from the state laws, but you cannot hide yourself from God's law. That is not possible. Īśāvasyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everywhere He is present. So, yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. Actually, the sun is the eye of all the planets. Now we are in this planet, earthly planet. So actually our eyes are the sun. When there is sunrise, then we can see, "Oh, here it is, here it is, here it is." So, yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. All the planetary systems that are existing within this universe, the sun is the eye because he is the eye of the Supreme Lord. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā. It is the king of all planets. Rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejaḥ. Aśeṣa-tejaḥ, unlimited temperature. Unlimited temperature. Aśeṣa-tejaḥ. And it is so powerful and so important, but what is his position? Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. Under the direction of the Supreme, it is rotating in its own orbit. The sun has its own orbit. Just like this earth has its own orbit, similarly, sun, sambhṛta-kāla-cakro, yasyājñayā... The sun cannot go beyond that orbit. Just like we go to the sea. The order is, "My dear Pacific Ocean, you may be very great, but you cannot come beyond this." We are walking daily on the beach. Just four feet away, the water is there, but it cannot touch because the order is, "No, you cannot come. Up to this, that's all."

So everyone is ... Just like you have seen the horse is controlled by the driver, similarly, all of us are being controlled. So we should remain controlled. That is life. We should not declare that "No. I don't want to be controlled." Then you'll fall down immediately. If you remain in your position, being controlled, being predominated... Don't try to be predominator. Oh, then immediately fall down, because you are not predominator. It is a false claim that "I want to predominate. I am God. I am predominator. I am this. I am that." These are all rascaldom. Simply you remain yourself predominated. Agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa, and your life is successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



720608LE.LA

Lecture Excerpt

-

Los Angeles, June 8, 1972



*Prabhupāda: The person in knowledge, he must see that "I cannot avoid death, I cannot avoid birth, I cannot avoid old age, I cannot avoid disease so long I have got this material body." But Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: "Anyone who understands Me in reality, what I am, then he immediately becomes immune from these four things." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this... This body we have to give up. And then next body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir... So a devotee at least is not going to be cats and dogs or trees. The nondevotees, they are. Now they are... Now the modern advancement is to be naked. So these people are going to be trees. You know Yamalārjuna. You have seen the picture. They were dancing and they were taking bath naked, and they were not ashamed when Nārada Muni was passing. So he cursed them that "You are so fool, you have lost your sense. All right, next life you become a tree, immediately." So these senseless, shameless persons who are advancing in their knowledge by becoming naked, they are going to be tree next life. The naked tree is standing naked for many thousands of years. Or animals*-they have no shame. So if human being becomes so shameless, then next life is to become animal and trees. But in the universities they say that "What is the wrong if I become an animal?" I asked them, "Do you like to be animal?" "Yes." "Then all right, next time you become animal. (laughter) This is your... I give you this blessing. That's all." (laughter) Flatly said, "Yes, yes, I will be happy." All right, say it. Kṛṣṇa is so kind: "You want to be naked? All right, you become naked for ten thousand years and stand up."



*So therefore to save ourself from degradation, to save our, this life ... We are actually, we are all eternal, but because we don't want Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we want animal consciousness, tree consciousness, animal consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa is very kind: "All right, you become tree. What can I do?" Kṛṣṇa is always ready to give you all facilities. Now it is up to you to make your choice whether you are going to dance with Kṛṣṇa or you want to become naked tree standing for ten thousands of years. That is your choice. A living entity has got this independence. Just like Kṛṣṇa asking Arjuna, yathecchasi tathā kuru: [Bg. 18.63] "I have spoken to you about things as they are. Now it is up to you to make your choice. Whatever you like, you can do." So Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante... [Bg. 4.11]. If you want from Kṛṣṇa that you want to become a tree, so it is not very difficult for Kṛṣṇa to make you a tree. He's all*-powerful. He can do that. But if you want, "Kṛṣṇa, I want to be with You personally," that also Kṛṣṇa can give you. So now make your choice. This is the human form of life. The animal cannot. The śāstras, the messages are not for the animals; it is for the human being. Therefore don't spoil your life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. Have kīrtana (end)



720701AD.SD

Hare Krishna Festival Address

-

San Diego, July 1, 1972,

At Balboa Park Bowl





*Prabhupāda: Ladies and Gentlemen. I thank you very much for your coming here and participating in this great movement known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement was started five hundred years ago by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu in a, a place which is now known as Nadia. It is a district in West Bengal, about sixty miles north of Calcutta. Lord Caitanya appeared there about four hundred and eighty*-five years ago, and He took sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means renounced order of life. According to Vedic civilization, at the end of one's life, one has to take sannyāsa, renounced order of life, no family connection. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at very early age... He was only twenty-four years old, and He had at His home very nice, young wife and very affectionate mother, but still... (someone in crowd starts yelling)



Guest (1): ... I don't believe that that's the truth there. I don't believe that is the truth. Get out of here!



Guest (2): Talk louder!



Prabhupāda: What does he say? (chuckles) (devotees laugh nervously)



Guest (1): I'm talking about sex...



Revatīnandana: Says he's talking about death.



Girl: Why don't you get up here and say it?



Viśvareta: Prabhupāda, he says he wants to have sex more than once a month.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Viśvareta: The man says he wants to have sex life more than once a month.



*Prabhupāda: No... He's creating disturbance. (pause) So as this man is talking about sex, so this world's, material world, is enchanted by sex. That is material world. Striya, puṁsāṁ striya mithuni*-bhāvam etad. This whole material world is existing on sex attraction. Not only in the human society, in animal society also, this sex impulse is there. Birds, beasts, animal, human being, even demigods, they are attracted in this material world by sex impulse. The śāstra, or the Vedic literature, there is mention about this, that we are in this material world only for this sex impulse. First of all, we think of sex. A man also thinks. A woman also thinks. And when they are united, that attraction becomes more and more complete. Then, in a gentlemanly way, when there is sex unity, then there is need of a nice apartment or house. Then there is need of land. Formerly, for living condition, everyone possessed some land to grow foodstuff. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ. So after sex unity, there is need of house, land, gṛha, kṣetra, then children, ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-suta, āpta. Then friends. Then vitta, then money. In this way, we increase our attachment for this material world. Janasya moho 'yam. Moha means illusion. In this way, he becomes illusioned. Ahaṁ mameti: [SB 5.5.8] "I" and "mine." Here, the real problem is we want to get out of this material conditional life. We are spirit soul. We are not matter. But in order to enjoy this material world we have come here. Every one of us who is existing within this material world has a desire to lord it over the material nature. It is said when a living entity, a part and parcel of God, he desires independently to enjoy or to lord it over the material nature, he comes down from the spiritual world to this material world. That is the cause of his falldown.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



Māyā means the illusory energy, where we want to enjoy, but it is not actual enjoyment. It is illusion. So the sex life in this material world is the center of this attraction.



So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to get the living out..., living entity out of this material entanglement. Because real happiness is not sensual happiness. Real happiness is above the senses. It is supramental sense, or spiritual sense. With the gross senses, what we enjoy, that is temporary. It is not permanent. Permanent enjoyment is transcendental sense enjoyment. There is in the Vedic literature a verse:

ramante yoginaḥ anante

satyānanda cid-ātmani

*iti rāma*-padenāsau

paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate

[Cc. Madhya 9.29]



*Yoginaḥ, those who are yogis... Yogis means those who are trying to reawaken Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He's called yogi. Our present consciousness is material consciousness. The material consciousness, the sex urge is very strong. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. It is said in the śāstra that the gṛhamedhi, those who are attracted by this material world, their center of enjoyment is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. This sex urge is a, a sort of itching sensation. Kaṇḍūyanenam. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. By satisfying this itching sensation, he becomes entrapped in so many ways. So many ways. That's a fact. Apart from those who are enjoying illicit sex, even those who are enjoying sex in regulated principles, they are also entrapped. Take, for example, one regular householder. In your country, it is different social situation, but in our country, in India, a family life is a great responsibility. The father and mother has to take full responsibility for education of the children, grow up nicely, and the father, mother is under obligation to get the boys and the girls married. Unless the children are married, the father's or the mother's responsibility continues. That is our social system, at least in India, those who are following Vedic principles of life. Especially for getting married the daughter, it is called kanyā dāya. Pitṛ-ṛṇa putra-ṛṇa matṛ-ṛṇa. We have got so many debts to clear. This is responsibility. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝṇām [SB 11.5.41]. We are indebted to the demigods. Just like sun is one of the demigods. We are getting, enjoying the sunshine. We are indebted to him. This is responsibility. Suppose if you take electricity, light, you are responsible for paying the bill. Similarly, you are taking so much advantage of the sunlight. You are also obliged to pay the debts, repay the debts. Deva ṛṣi. Ṛṣi means those who have given us the Vedic literature. Just like Nārada Muni, Vyāsadeva, they have given us... Vyāsadeva given us immense literature. Immense literature. He has written Mahābhārata. He has written the eighteen purāṇas. One of the purāṇas is the Bhāgavata Purāṇa. And he has written the Upaniṣads. Then he has compiled the Vedānta-sūtra. And each and every book, there are innumerable verses. In Mahābhārata there are 100,000's of verses. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 18,000 verses. And if you study one verse, it will take at least one week to understand. So grave thoughts. So therefore, we are reading all these Vedic literatures. Certainly, we are indebted to them.



*So we are indebted to the demigods. Just like the sun*-god, the moon-god, the Indra. Indra is supplying us water. Of course, in your country, there is no such conception. But the Vedic knowledge gives us full information how water is being supplied, how light is being supplied, how air is being supplied by the arrangement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Don't take it irresponsibly. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has arranged so many things. Just like in your city there is department of water supply, there is department of light supply, there is depart..., different departments, similarly, in the kingdom of God there are departments. But because we are foolish, we do not know how the departments are being conducted. So we are not paying any bills. The bills are paid, according to the Vedic injunction, by performing sacrifices. So in this way, our point is sex life, that, the, a gṛhastha, a householder, he has got debts towards his parents, towards his father, towards his mother, towards his wife, towards his children. The society should be human society, not the cats' and dogs' society. That is Vedic conception. So in the Vedic conception of life the sex life is there, but you become indebted. You must repay the debts. If you simply beget children like cats and dogs and go away, then you become responsible for the sinful activities. You must take responsible. So this man was suggesting, he wants sex life at least once in a month. Yes, that is allowed. That is allowed in the Vedic civilization. When the wife is in menstrual period, after five days of the menstrual period, the wife and husband can have sex life for begetting rightful children. And before be getting a child, one must go... If he is in the higher orders of society, one must accept the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Garbhādhāna-saṁskāra means that child born out of the sex life of the father and mother must come out a very nice child, not like the cat and dog. That is called garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Those who are in the higher position of the society, they are obliged to observe ten kinds of purificatory processes, out of which, the first purificatory process is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. So the parents, when they take to sex life for begetting nice children, there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, and if one does not observe this garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, he immediately falls down to the group of śūdra from brahminical position. These are the injunctions in the Vedic literature. Sex life is not denied, but one must take responsibility for sex life; otherwise, he becomes entangled in so many sinful activities.

*Because here in the material world, everyone is a criminal. Just like in the prison house, when a criminal is there, in every state there is law. He cannot violate the laws of the prison house. Similarly, here also, in this material world, who have come here to enjoy... There is no enjoyment. There is simply suffering. But we take sufferings as enjoyment. That is called illusion. Anyway, the Vedic principle has allowed everything. Because here we have come to enjoy so*-called sense gratification. That is illusion. So there is regulated principle. You can have sex life once in a month. That is prescribed. Because the woman has once in a month menstrual period. So sex life is meant for simply begetting nice children, not for sense gratification. Therefore, because the woman is, gets the menstrual period once in a month, therefore the man can have sex life just after the menstrual period, over, after five days, he can sex life, have sex life with his wife under garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, responsibility. Otherwise he becomes implicated in sinful activities. That is Vedic injunction. So sex life is not denied. Just like in our society, the boys and girls, they come to our society, and as far as possible, we get them married. We don't allow to live, the boys and girls and friends, like friends. No. That is a great sinful activity. So nothing is denied. The problem of life is eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. So everything is there, but in a regulated form. In regulated form so that the world may not become hell. If it is irregulated form, then the whole world will be hell. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, narakāya varṇa-saṅkaraḥ. When we produce unwanted children, the whole world becomes just like hell. It is going to happen like that at the present moment. The sex life is not denied. The point is discussed because it was raised. Sex life is not denied, but in a regulated form so that you can get nice population, you can live very happily. Not that you produce unwanted children and they turn out rogues, thieves and drunkards, like that. That is not allowed. You must produce nice children. For that purpose, sex life is allowed. And especially in this age, at the present moment, if you can produce children to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will be a great service to the Lord. Because we want now Kṛṣṇa conscious population. Otherwise this world is going to hell. That's a fact. We are dwindling, liquidation. There were great empires like Roman empire, Greece empire, Carthaginian empire and, later on, Moghul empires, British empire. So many empires there were. There was Hitler. There was Mussolini. There was Napoleon. So these powerful emperors or men came and gone. Their name is only there, and nothing is remaining.

*So I came to your country. Your country is very nice country, America. I heard it from India. So I decided to come here because I heard that your country's very nice. And when I came here, I saw actually your country is very nice. Your cities, your buildings, your men also... Because mostly my students, they are Americans, and they help me very kindly to push on this movement. So I have studied the American life, very nice. They have good heart. So only thing is wanted*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, despite your all opulences, you are becoming confused and frustrated. I hear that out of three, one man is a patient of a psychiatrist. Why? Why you are unhappy? Why you should be unhappy? You have got everything-enough food, enough land, enough money, enough intelligence. Why you should be unhappy? The cause you should try to find out. The cause is that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without God consciousness, nobody can be happy. That is the cause. So my request is that this movement is started from America, from New York. In 1966 I registered this movement, International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and since then, we are spreading. In your country, we have got about fifty branches, all over the country, America. And we have got other branches also, about fifty, in Europe, in Canada, in Australia, in New Zealand, in Japan. In India also. India, of course, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is known since a very, very long time. At least, everyone in India knows what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and he may not be seriously engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but even a street man, a street boy, knows what is Kṛṣṇa. In your country, this, this movement is started since 1966, but in '67 I was sick. I went back to India and again came back in 1968, and since that time, we are pushing on this movement little, very highly, and it is being effected. It is being effected. People are understanding. So my request is that you have got all material resources. Don't waste your time. Life is very valuable, especially this human form of life. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. This human form of life is achieved after many, many births of evolutionary process. We had to undergo 900,000 species of life in water. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Two millions of species of life through plants and trees. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Eleven hundred thousand species of life of insects and reptiles. Pakśiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. And one million species of life amongst the birds. Then triṁśal-lakṣāṇi paśavaḥ: and then three million species of life amongst the beasts. In this way, there are four hundred thousand species of human form of life, out of which, the civilized form of life, when our consciousness is developed, that is the opportunity to understand what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God, what is this material world, how I shall treat. That is needed. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human, this civilized form of human life is meant for inquiring about Brahman, the Supreme, the Absolute Truth.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving knowledge about the Absolute Truth, Paraṁ Brahman. The Sanskrit word is Paraṁ Brahman. And Kṛṣṇa is Paraṁ Brahman. If you have read Bhagavad*-gītā on the Tenth Chapter, when Arjuna summarizes his understanding after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he says, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "Kṛṣṇa, I understand that You are the Supreme Personality, Absolute Truth." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma: "You are the reservoir of everything." Pavitram: "You are the Supreme Pure." Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam: "You are the Supreme Person." Kṛṣṇa, or the Absolute Truth, is not imperson. He's the Supreme Person. He's Supreme Person. He is the Absolute Truth. And we are presenting Kṛṣṇa before you, and you take it. Most of the Western country, they are Christian. So the Christians believe in Lord Jesus Christ as son of God. But we are presenting the father, God Himself. So there is no contradiction. If there is son, there must be a father also. Without father, there cannot be son. So if you believe in the son, then you must believe in the father also. The father is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yaḥ

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*He is the seed*-giving father for all living entities. So Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa, as it is stated in your English dictionary, "Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu God." He's not Hindu, He's not Muslim, or He's not Christian. He's God. God is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. It is bodily designations, "I am Hindu, you are Christian." This is bodily... Just like dress. You have got some black coat. Another has got some white coat. That does not meant we are different because we are in different coat or shirt. As human being, we are all sons of God. We are one. That is the conception. So at the present moment, we have divided the world on account of this shirt and coat. That is not. That is not good. Actually, the whole world or the whole universe belongs to God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*We have divided God's land: "This is America. This is India. This is Germany. This is England." But after all, this is our given name. This planet especially... Not only this planet, all other planets, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-loka-maheśvaram: He's the proprietor. Formerly, five thousand years ago, this planet was being governed by Kṛṣṇa's representative, Mahārāja Parīkṣit. That is actually life. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of all planets, and one should be Kṛṣṇa's representative to rule over the planet. That is Vedic system. There cannot be any king or emperor who is not representative of God. It is the duty of the representative of God to take charge of a planet and educate the persons, the citizens, into God consciousness. That is Vedic way of life. Not that the chief executive or the government simply levies taxes from the citizens and let them go to hell. This is not good government. The government must be responsible for the uplift of the citizens to the spiritual life. That is real government.



*So that was being done five thousand years ago by Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Mahārāja Parīkṣit, those who have read Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, there is this... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins from the question of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Mahārāja Parīkṣit, at the last stage of his life, when he was to live for seven days only, he decided to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and become liberated from this material life. And it so happened. The idea is the Mahārāja Parīkṣit was so pious that, that when he was touring in his kingdom all over the world, he found one man, one black man was trying to kill one cow. Immediately, Mahārāja Parīkṣit took his sword and wanted to kill the man. He was Kali. So "Who are you, that you are killing cow in my kingdom?" So formerly, when the whole world was under the one king of the Pāṇḍavas, just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, there was equal protection for the animals and the man. Not that man should be given protection by law, and not the animals. The animals, they're also national. What is the meaning of "national"? One who is born in that land. Suppose you are American. You are born in this land of America; *therefore you are American national. Why not the cats and the dogs and the cows? They are also national. So this is injustice, that to give protection to the human kind and to send the animals to the slaughterhouse. This, this inequality, discrimination between man and animal is due to lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one becomes actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, he does not make such distinction that a man should be given protection and the animal should be killed. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a, a spiritual movement. It is reformatory movement, inclusive all sides of life. Don't think that we are simply chanting and dancing. Our philosophy includes all different activities of humankind, either it may be religious or political or social or cultural. Anything. Industrial*-everything. So my request is that this movement was started in your country, and these American boys and girls, they have taken it seriously. So kindly cooperate with this movement, and you'll be happy. That is my request.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause) Kīrtana. (end)



720712LE.LON

Lecture

-

London, July 12, 1972



Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your participating in this saṅkīrtana movement. This movement was started by Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago in India, West Bengal. (noises in background) (aside:) What is that sound? That sound cannot be stopped?



Haṁsadūta: That's the speaker system, Prabhupāda.



*Prabhupāda: But this movement is not five hundred years old. It is coming since very, very long time. As we have advertised, bhāgavata*-dharma. This is part of bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma was explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja, a great devotee of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, Nārāyaṇa, some millions of years ago. His father was Hiraṇyakaśipu, atheist. He did not believe in God. But by the grace of Nārada Muni, his son, from the very womb of his mother, he was initiated in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And after his birth he became a great devotee. And when he was only five years old he was preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement amongst his class fellows. He was little boy, king's son. He had no opportunity to go out of the palace. Still, he took the opportunity of speaking something about this bhāgavata-dharma amongst his class fellows. So he was canvassing his class fellows, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."



*The bhāgavata*-dharma is called...

*etāvaj janma*-sāphalyaṁ

dehinām iha dehiṣu

prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā

śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā



*Bhāgavata*-dharma, execution of bhāgavata-dharma. There are different types of dharma. Dharma means the codes of God, the laws of God. This is real dharma, or religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the codes, the laws, which is given by God. This is the simple definition of God, er, of dharma. (child screaming) (aside:) It is disturbing. This child is... (pause)



Pradyumna: If the children are noisy, they can go outside and...



Prabhupāda: So "religion," this English word, is not sufficient translation of the word dharma. Religion... According to English language, religion means a kind of faith. You may believe in some faith. Somebody believes in Hindu religion; *others may believe in Christian religion. One may become a Christian from Hindu, or from a Hindu to Christian. Generally, we find these changes. But a dharma does not mean like that. Dharma means which you cannot change. It is the constitutional part of your life. So Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita*-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. Dharma, the so-called religion, kaitava, which is cheating. Kaitava means cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita. Projjhita means prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita, thrown away, kicked away. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. So there are different kinds of dharmas, faith. But what is real dharma, real religion? Real religion is, as described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Real religion is the codes which is given by God. Just like you may have some by-laws in your office or in your home, but there is state law. That you cannot, I mean to say, disobey, state law. Just like in your country the state law is that "Keep to the left." In America the state law is "Keep to the right." So here we have to obey. If you drive your car, keep to the left. You cannot disobey. You cannot say, "I am American. I go in my country on the right. Why shall I drive on the left?" No. Because it is the state law you must obey. Similarly, dharma is such a thing that you cannot disobey. You must obey because it is the codes given by God. If you are so much respectful to the laws of the state, how much respectful you should be to obey the laws given by God.



*So we find in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is real dharma. Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge: "I descend in different millenniums," yuge yuge, "for establishing the real dharma, real religion."

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

*dharma*-saṁsthāpanārthāya

yuge yuge sambhavāmi

[Bg. 4.8]



*So God descends, He comes Himself or He sends His representative, to reestablish the real purpose of religion, whenever there is discrepancies in the matter of discharging real religion. So the real... Kṛṣṇa, when appeared, He said... His last instruction is... In the Bhagavad*-gītā, you know, those who have read Bhagavad-gītā. He said, "The most confidential part of religion is this." What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other processes of faith and religion. Simply surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Religion means to become purified, to become purified from our sinful activities. So Kṛṣṇa says that "If you surrender unto Me..." When I speak "Kṛṣṇa," you may understand "God." God is speaking that "You surrender unto Me and I'll give you protection from the reaction of all sinful activities." In this material world we are encaged in this material body for our sinful activities, different types of sinful activities. So our aim of life is to get out of these sinful activities and be situated in our own original position, constitutional position, spiritual position. Because we are part and parcel of God, we are as pure as God, but we have been contaminated by this material association, and therefore we have got different types of bodies, encagements. And according to the different types of bodies we have to enjoy or suffer the material atmosphere. This is our position. So bhāgavata-dharma means to surrender unto God. That's all. Very simple thing. And Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is teaching us this bhāgavata-dharma, how to surrender. He demanded that "You surrender unto Me." But still, people misunderstood Him.



*Therefore He again came, Kṛṣṇa again came in the form of Lord Caitanya, as a devotee, and He taught us how to approach Kṛṣṇa, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So this bhāgavata*-dharma is eternal. As long as we are there, as long God is there, our relationship with God, that is called bhāgavata-dharma. Bhaga. Bhaga means fortune. Bhaga means fortune, and bhagavān... Bhagavān means who is the most fortunate or who has got all the opulences. So God has got all the opulences. And one who is in association with God, he has also all the opulences. And the exchange between God and the devotee in all opulences, it is called bhāgavata-dharma.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is preaching amongst his class fellows, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha.

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*He says, "My dear friends..." Because the friends were born of atheist family. Prahlāda Mahārāja also, his father was atheist. So they were not agreeable to their friend's advice, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja canvassing to his friends, little friends, "My dear friends, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And they were replying, "Prahlāda, why you are insisting us to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Let us play. We shall see Hare Kṛṣṇa at the time of death." But he was insisting, "My dear friends, no." Kaumāra ācaret prājño. "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be studied, should be understood from the very beginning of boyhood, kaumāra." Kaumāra means boyhood. From... Boyhood means from the age of five years. As education begins at the age of five years, similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or bhāgavata*-dharma, should be taught to the children as soon as the child is five years old. That is his instruction. "Why so early? We can understand about God later on." No. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Durlabham, "very rarely." "My dear friends, you have got this human form of life after many, many births." The modern civilization, they do not know. The university education, they do not know. The scientists, they do not know. There is a false theory, Darwin's theory, about evolution of species. But that is not perfect knowledge. That is simply an idea taken from Purāṇas. In the Purāṇas, this Darwin's theory is not new to the Vedic knowledge. It is a theory only. But actual fact is different.



*Actual fact is described in the Purāṇas, where it is described, aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva*-jātiṣu. Jīva-jāti, different species of life. There are 8,400,000's of different species of life. Aśītiṁ catura. Aśītim means eighty, and catura means four. Eighty-four, lakṣāṁs, 100,000. Jīva-jātiṣu, there are different species of life. They are developing. Because after devastation, the whole universe is filled up with water. So in the water the first living beings are the fishes or the aquatics. Then that fish or aquatic means a living entity embodied by that fish body. Just like we are now, every one of us... I am also a soul, you are also a soul. We are embodied by this body, human form of body. Similarly, we had to accept the body of a fish. Because we are in this material world, when there is water only, where shall we go? We must live here in this material... Unless we are liberated, we must have to live... And according to the circumstances, we get different types of body. So from the aquatics, next promotion is trees, plants, then insects, then birds, then beasts. In this way, after millions, millions of years... You have seen that a tree is standing for thousands of years. If I get a body of a tree, then I'll have to stand in one place for many thousands of years. Therefore when you come by gradual evolution in the different species of life, by nature when you come to this point, to possess a human form of body, it is very, very rare. That is described: durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Durlabham. Duḥ means difficult, and labha means gain. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. Adhruvam. He said durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. Although it is also temporary. We shall not live forever with this body. The animals also, they'll also not live forever. The body will be finished after certain period of time. So he says, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My dear friend, this body, this human form of body, is very, very rarely we have obtained it. Although it is temporary, but there is a great gain." In the animal life, that is also temporary, and this human form of body is also temporary. But the animals cannot get that achievement which we can get. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. Arthadam means... Artha means meaningful or some material profit or spiritual profit.

*So we can, by the help of this human form of body, we can achieve some very great profit. That is required. That is the human mission. Not like that, we take our birth like cats and dogs. Everyone takes birth. The process of birth is the same: the male*-female sexual intercourse, and there is some child. So there is no difference between the human process of birth and the animal process of birth. There is no difference of living condition of the animal and the human being. Because the animal eats; we also eat. The animal sleeps; we also sleep. The animals have facility for sex life; we have also got the facility of sex life. The animal also defends according to his own way; *we can defend with atom bomb. That's all right. But it is defending, nothing more. Therefore, about these four things-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending*-they are common. The special feature of this human form of body is that he has developed consciousness how to understand God. The animal hasn't got this. And the process of understanding God and to revive our relationship with God is called bhāgavata-dharma. This is explanation of bhāgavata-dharma. The eating, sleeping, mating, this is also dharma. Dharma means the activities, constitutional activities. Any man or any animal who has got this body, he must eat. This is also dharma. Dharma means which we cannot avoid. Because we have become human beings, it is not that we can avoid eating. That is not... This is also dharma. So this dharma, this practice, this occupation, is visible in animal life and human life. But another thing, the dharma which we actually mean, means to understand God, that is not visible in animal life. That is not possible. Therefore dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Anyone who does not cultivate religious life, he is no better than an animal. He's animal. If you are simply interested with eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, nothing more, then this is animal civilization. This is not human civilization.

*So we have got the opportunity. Why we should accept religious life? To get out of these material clutches. People do not take it very seriously, but those who are intelligent, they take it seriously. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find that living soul, the living entity or the soul... Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The living entity, the soul, is never born; it never dies. It is the oldest. Nityaḥ śāśvataṁ purāṇa. Purāṇa means very old; nitya, eternal; na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, does not die after the destruction of this body. The death and birth is of the body, not of the soul. Therefore when we are actually intelligent, cultured, advanced, then we should be inquisitive that "If I am eternal, then why I am subject to these tribulations of birth, death, old age, and disease?" That is intelligence. It is not intelligence that "The cats and dogs are eating on the footpath; I am eating (in) a very nice plate, nice hotel or nice table." You are eating, that's all. It is not advancement of civilization when you think that you have got good apartment, good house, and sleeping in a nice bedstead, and the cat and dog is lying on the floor or in the street. No. She sleeping; when you sleep, the enjoyment is as good as of the cats and dogs. Similarly, sex life also. They also enjoy, you also enjoy. Then what is your special prerogative? The special prerogative is that you can understand in this life that you are eternal, you are Brahman. Therefore the, in the human form of life, if one is not so advanced as to inquire about the Brahman, athāto brahma jijñāsā... This human form of life is meant for inquiring about Brahman, or spirit soul. So long this inquiry is not there, one is animal. That's all.

*So bhāgavata*-dharma is meant for, actually, for the advanced human being. Bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means to know "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" If you study yourself, you can also understand. Or if you take instruction from the Vedas, then also you can understand. The knowledge is already there. If you take advantage of the knowledge, you can know. But if you make analysis by yourself, then also you'll know. But if you make analysis by education, speculation, it will take long, long years. Because if you don't accept the standard way, then it will waste, you will waste your time. So you will have to come to the same point. But if you are inquisitive, that is your life. If we come to the point of inquiring about "What I am?" Oh, that is great advancement. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. I can understand very well that when... There are so many babies here. I was also a baby. My body, I had a body like a baby on the lap of my mother. I can remember that. Then I became a child, then I became a boy, then I became a young man, now I am old man. Now, the bodies, different bodies, I possessed. I remember. But those bodies are no more existing. Where is my childhood body? Where is my boyhood body? Where is my youthhood body? They're all gone. So although the bodies are gone, I remember that I had a body of a child, I had a body of a boy, I had a body of young man. Therefore I am eternal, my bodies are not eternal. Therefore the conclusion should be: when I change this body, then I'll exist. That is... Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra... [Bg. 2.13]. Everything is there, either you study yourself or take the lesson from the Vedic version.

The Vedic version is that,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Just like the... I am changing, you are changing, everyone is changing. Every second, every moment, we are changing bodies. So similarly, changing of this body, accepting another body. After leaving this body, I'll accept another body. That body is not in my hands. What kind of body I am going to accept next, that depends on my work here, in this body. I am preparing my next body in this life. Just like a child is being, a boy is being educated to prepare his next life. If he is nicely educated, his next life is very bright. If he's not nicely educated, that will be very dark. Similarly, this chance, this human form of body, is a junction. From animal forms of life, by gradual process of evolution, I have come to this human form of life. Now I have to make out next what life. You can promote yourself to the higher planetary systems. You can promote yourself to the spiritual world. You can get your eternal life. That is called arthadam. That achievement you can do in this human form of life. So anyone who is attempting to get eternal, blissful life of knowledge, he is intelligent man. Otherwise, one who is spoiling his life simply for animal propensities, eating, sleeping, mating, he's no better than animal. That's all. Cats and dog. Polished cat, polished dog maybe, but he is animal. This bhāgavata-dharma means that, how to get out of these four defects of material life, or four miserable condition of material life-birth, death, old age and disease*-and get eternal, blissful life of knowledge. That is called bhāgavata-dharma.



So it is a great science. It is not sentiment. It is a great science. And anyone can achieve this benefit in this human form of life. Anyone. It doesn't matter what he is, provided he is serious about getting out of these material clutches and regain his spiritual life. That is possible. So Vedic civilization is aimed at this point. Therefore you don't find in the Vedic civilization industrial enterprise or so many material activities. But they were concerned how to get out of these material clutches and regain our original position. That is called mukti, liberation. Liberation means to be situated in our original position. We are part and parcel of God. God... Just like gold and part and parcel of gold is also gold. Therefore the Vedic literature says that "You try to understand that you are also Brahman. God is Supreme Brahman; you are also Brahman. And mold your life as Brahman." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to mold this life to understand that we are all Brahman and our original source is the Parambrahman. Just like Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "Kṛṣṇa, You are Parabrahman." That is accepted by the *Vedas*. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). "God" means He is also a living entity as you are, as I am. As we are sitting, I am speaking, we are face to face, similarly, God is also a person like you, like me. But He is very, very powerful. Nityo nitya... Just like here in this material world also I see that you are more powerful than me, and another person is more powerful than you, another person is more powerful than him. If you go on searching, when you find the supreme powerful, that is God. That is God. Supreme powerful. Here, in our relative position, I see that I am powerful, somebody is less powerful than me, and somebody is more powerful than me. This is relative world. Nobody can say that "I am the most powerful. Nobody is more powerful than me." Nobody can say. That is not possible. Similarly, you go on searching who is the most powerful. If you are fortunate enough, if you can find out such a person, the most powerful, nobody is more powerful than Him, that is God. So God's definition is not very difficult. Simply... So we have to go through the śāstras. The Vedic literature says that the supreme powerful is Kṛṣṇa.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, nobody is superior than Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Try to find out your relationship (to) Kṛṣṇa and mold your life in that way. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



Indian guest: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: "Is it safe to compare scientific advancement with Bhāgavata, like Darwin and *Bhāgavatam*."



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by scientific advancement?



Indian guest: Well, material advancement...



Prabhupāda: Material means it is to be finished. Where is the advancement? You do not want to die, but why you die? Where is your advancement?



Indian guest: No, I fully agree with your interpretation of Bhāgavata, but the comparison between Darwin's discoveries and what is mentioned in Bhāgavata, I don't agree with that. It is already mentioned in Bhāgavata, but Swamijī, you are from a different point of view. So...



Prabhupāda: No, that is a wrong theory. Therefore we say. That is a wrong theory. Darwin is studying this body. He does not know. He has no information of the soul; therefore his knowledge is imperfect. His theory is imperfect. It is a long subject matter. If you want to discuss, you come. We shall discuss. It is a wrong theory. That is not scientific advancement. Science means it must be correct. That is science. If science is theory, that is not science. So Darwin is advocating his theory, "May be like this, perhaps like this." This "perhaps," "maybe," is not science. This is only suggestion. We have to deal with the facts. That is science.



Indian guest: Yes, but as you say, there are two ways of reaching the God. Either through the study of *Vedas* up to...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Through study of *Vedas*, not study something nonsense. Study of *Vedas*.



*Indian guest: That is up to the level of self*-analysis, because it is that time when we compare.(?)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Self*-analysis, if you analyze yourself, if you think yourself, meditate, study your finger, "Am I this finger?" the answer will be, "No. My finger." "Am I this hand?" The answer will be, "No, it is my hand." Then where is "I"? That is... If you can study "I," then it is scientific. Simply "my" is not scientific. That is, child knows "It is my finger."



Indian guest: Yes, but, I mean, it is a further word(?) to study oneself.



Prabhupāda: That further means when you come to the conclusion that "I am spirit soul." If you can understand this, then it is scientific. If you remain in ignorance, that "I am this body," that is not scientific. Actually, I am not this body. Everyone can understand. Just like a dead man. Suppose some of your relatives has died. You are crying, "Oh, my friend has gone. My friend has gone." Your friend is lying there. Why you say that "My friend has gone"? What is the answer? If I say... The dead body, you are crying, "Oh, my relative has gone. My father is gone." I say, "Where he has gone? He is there. Why you are crying?" Then what will be your answer?



Indian guest: No, I mean that that is the ultimate scheme for...



Prabhupāda: But that you understand, that that... What is that? What is that? You have never seen your father or friend. You have seen this body. Now you are crying, "Now he has gone." Where he has gone? You have seen the body all along. That is lying here. Why you say he has gone? What is your answer? This is ignorance. All along I am seeing the false thing: "He is my father; *I am the body." But he's not my father. Actually, when father, my, goes away from this body, I cry, "Oh, my father has gone." Where he has gone? His, the body is there. This is ignorance. It is not scientific. Because I'm thinking, "I am this body," this is not scientific. This is ignorance. So in this way you have to study. But the answer is there in the Vedic literature: tathā dehāntara*-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. "My father has accepted another body." This is scientific. Dhīra, one who is sober, he is not lamenting. Just like your child, from babyhood it becomes grown-up, or acts in another way. You are not crying, "Where is that body of my child, that baby body? Where he has gone?" But you know that he has transferred to this body. Similarly, when you get this knowledge that "My father has left this body, he has accepted another body, although it is not visible," that is knowledge. That is scientific.



Indian guest: Yes, but by average person it is very difficult to reach the light...



Prabhupāda: But therefore he has to study. Every rascal, fool, he has to study. There is education. Therefore Vedic literature is there. If you don't study and you see... If you say, "I am scientific advanced," then what is this nonsense? If you have no knowledge, if you have not studied, why do you say unscientific? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



Indian guest: How does repeating one word, "Kṛṣṇa," or singing "Rāma" and "Kṛṣṇa" help achieving the way?



*Prabhupāda: Because you'll be in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name not different because Kṛṣṇa is absolute. So you see, these European and American boys and girls, simply by chanting how they are advancing in spiritual consciousness. This is practical, not theoretical. "Kṛṣṇa" means Kṛṣṇa. Just like here in this material world, if I want to drink water, if I say "water, water, water," that will not satisfy me. I want the substance water. So here there is difference between the name and the substance. But in the absolute world there is no such difference. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa the person and Kṛṣṇa's name the same thing. Therefore if you chant "Kṛṣṇa," then you are in direct touch with Kṛṣṇa. So that will help you for your spiritual advancement. Just like if you are in touch with fire you will get yourself warmer and warmer and warmer, and at last you'll get red fire. Similarly, if we are in touch with Kṛṣṇa, then we advance spiritually, and then we become completely spiritualized, our original Brahman. This is the process. Simple process. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you'll gradually develop your spiritual consciousness. That is actually happening. It is not story. You can see practically how they are spiritually advancing. So why not experiment yourself? What is the loss? If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is there any loss? Tell me, is there any loss? But why don't you do it? Why not make a try? Instead of arguing, you see practically what is happening. They are of different civilization, different culture. How they are developing their Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How it is possible? Simply by chanting. This is practical. Throughout the whole world*-in Africa, in America, in Canada, everywhere. So this is very simple process. But people will waste their time by arguing. Why not make an experiment and see what is the result? That is our propaganda. (end)





720831SP.NV

Speech

-

New Vrindaban, August 31, 1972



Prabhupāda:... some of the sannyāsīs will speak or I will speak? Where is Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?



*Śyāmasundara: Maybe someone should introduce the bhāgavata*-dharma discourse... Kīrtanānanda?



Prabhupāda: Or Rūpānuga, Rūpānuga Mahārāja....oḥ, it will fall down. You can take this. (conversation between devotees) (japa)



Kīrtanānanda: You can hear?



Devotees: Yes.



Kīrtanānanda: Everybody can hear. New Vrindaban began when Śrīla Prabhupāda wrote to me about four or five years ago and expressed some desire that we could make a transcendental place of pilgrimage here for the purpose of celebrating the pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. [break]



*Prabhupāda: Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. As already described by Śrīman Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja, that this bhāgavata-dharma was spoken by Bhagavān Himself. Bhagavān, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Bhaga-vān. It is a Sanskrit word. Bhaga means fortunes, and vān means one who possesses. These two words combined together makes the word Bhagavān, or the supreme fortunate. We calculate our fortune if somebody is very rich, if somebody is very strong, if somebody is very beautiful, if somebody is very wise, if somebody is in renounced order of life. In this way, there are six opulences, and these opulences, when one possesses in fullness, without any rivalry, he is called Bhagavān. The richest of all, the wisest of all, the most beautiful, the most famous, the most renounced*-in this way, Bhagavān. And the bhāgavata also comes from the word bhaga. From bhaga, when it is used a participle objective, it becomes bhaga. So bhāgavata. The same thing, vān, this word is comes from the word vat, vat-śabda. Bhāgavata. In Sanskrit, every word is grammatically very systematically bound up. Every word. Therefore it is called Sanskrit language. Sanskrit means reformed. We cannot manufacture by whims; *it must be strictly according to the grammatical rules and regulations. So the bhāgavata*-dharma means the relationship between the devotees and the Lord. The Lord is Bhagavān and the devotee is bhāgavata, or in relationship with Bhagavān.



So everyone is related with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just like father and son is always related. That relation cannot be broken (child crying, taken out) at any stage, but sometimes it happens that the son, out of his own independence, he goes out of his home and forgets the affectionate relationship with father. In your country, it is not very extraordinary thing. So many sons go out of father's affectionate home. That is very ordinary experience. So everyone has got independence. Similarly, we are all sons of God, but we are, at the same time, independent. Not fully independent, but independent. We have got the tendency of having independence because God is fully independent, and we are born of God; *therefore, we have got the quality of independence. Although we cannot be absolutely independent as God, but the tendency is there that "I shall become independent." So the living entities, we*-we are part and parcel of God-when we want to live independently of God, that is our conditional stage. Conditional stage means we accept a body, material body, which is conditioned in so many ways. Just like the body undergoes six kinds of changes. It is born, the body is born, not the living entity. It is born at a certain date, it remains for some time, it grows, it gives some by-products, then the body dwindles and at last it vanishes. The six kind of changes. Not only these six kind of changes, but also there are many tribulations. They are called threefold miseries: pertaining to the body, pertaining to the mind, miseries offered by other living entities, miseries happening by natural disturbances. And after all, the whole thing is summarized into four principles, namely birth, death, old age and disease. These are our conditional life.

*So, in order to get out of these conditions of life, if we revive our bhāgavata consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, whatever you like... When we speak of "Kṛṣṇa," means the Supreme Lord. God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or our original consciousness. Just like, every one of us, we remember always that "I am the son of such-and-such gentleman. Such-and-such gentleman is my father." It is natural to remember one's father and his relationship with father. And, in ordinary business also, the etiquette is if one presents his identification, he has to give his father's name. In India it is very essential, and the father's name or the title is the last name of everyone. So when we forget the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa, and we want to live independently... Independently means if we want to enjoy life according to my whims. That is called so-called independence. But by such independence, we are never happy, so we transmigrate for this so-called illusory happiness from one body to another. Because a particular body has got a particular facility of happiness. Just like every one of us, we want to fly in the sky. But because we are human beings, we have no wings, we cannot fly. But the birds, although they are animals, lower animals, they can easily fly. In this way, if you make analytical study, every particular body has got a particular type of facility, while others haven't got. But we want all facilities of life. That is our inclination. Just like modern scientists, they're trying to go to other planets but they're conditioned, they cannot go. We can see. There are millions and trillions of planets before us*-the sun planet, the moon planet, the Venus, the Mars. Sometimes we wish, "How I could go there." But because I am conditioned, I'm not independent, I cannot go. But originally, because you are spirit soul, originally you were free to move any way. Just like Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni moves everywhere; *any planet he likes he can go. Still, there is one planet within this universe which is called Siddhaloka. That Siddhaloka, the inhabitants of Siddhaloka, they can fly from one planet to another without any airplane. Even yogis, yogis, haṭha*-yogīs, those who have practiced, they can also go from anywhere to anyplace. The yogis, they sit down in one place and immediately transferred in another place. They take a dip in some river nearby here and they can get up in some river in India. They dip here and they rise there. These are yogic powers.

So we have got immense independence, but we are now conditioned by this body. Therefore in the human form of life it is an opportunity to get back our original independence. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Freedom. When we have got our spiritual body, without being covered by this material body... We have got our spiritual body within this material body. Very small. That is my real identification. Now I'm covered by two kinds of material bodies. One is called subtle body and the other is called gross body. The subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego, false ego, and the gross body is made of earth, water, fire, air and ether mixed together, this body. So two kinds of body we have got. And we are changing. Generally we can see the gross body; we cannot see the subtle body. Just like everyone knows... I know that you have got your mind. I know that you have got intelligence. You know I have got mind, I have got intelligence. But I cannot see your mind, I cannot see your intelligence. I cannot see your determination. I cannot see your thoughts, thinking, feeling and willing. Similarly, you cannot see. You see my gross body made of this earth, water, air, fire, and I can see your gross body. Therefore, when this gross body is changed and you are carried, you go away by the subtle body, that is called death. We say, "Oh, my father has gone away." How do you see that your father has gone away? The body is here lying. But actually his father has gone away by the subtle body. Just like at night, we are sleeping on our nice apartment, but the subtle body takes me away on the top of a mountain. Sometimes we see I have come, in dream, I have come on the top of a mountain, very high, and I am falling down. Although actually, my gross body is sleeping in a nice, comfortable apartment, but the subtle body carries me. We have got daily experience. Similarly, death means this gross body we change. Just like you have got your shirt and coat. So you change the coat, but you keep your shirt. You do it, generally. Similarly, I keep my subtle body and I give up my gross body; *that is called death. And I am carried by the subtle body in the womb of another mother by the laws of nature, and I develop another gross body, materials supplied by the mother. And when the body is prepared, I come out of the womb of mother and I work again with that subtle and gross body. And bhāgavata*-dharma means that we have to transcend both the gross and subtle body; come to the spiritual body. It is very scientific. And as soon as we come to the spiritual body, mukta saṅga, being freed from the gross and subtle body, we come to our real body, spiritual body, then actually we feel happiness and independence.

*So this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest benediction for the human society because it is trying to bring the human being to the platform of spiritual body*-transcending the gross and subtle material body. That is the highest perfection. Human life is meant for coming to that platform, the spiritual platform, transcending the gross and material bodily concept of life. That is possible. It is made easy in this age. This age called Kali, it is not very good time. Simply disagreement, fighting, quarreling, misunderstanding. This age is full of that, all these happenings. Therefore to come to the spiritual platform is very difficult in this age. Formerly, it was not so difficult. People were very easily trained up by the Vedic process. But now the people are not interested. They're simply interested with the gross body or, a little more, who is a little advanced, the subtle body. But they have no information of the spiritual body. Although there is advancement of education, there is no education about the spiritual body. They're simply concerned with the gross material and subtle body. Therefore this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is very important movement. Those who have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they're very, very fortunate.

So I shall further explain one song sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura was one of our predecessor ācāryas, teacher, and his songs are accepted in our Vaiṣṇava society as Vedic truth. He has written in simple language, but it contains the Vedic truth. So he has got many songs. One of the songs is hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. He says, "My dear Lord, I am simply wasting the valuable time of my life." Biphale janama goṅāinu. Everyone takes birth as human being, but he does not know how to utilize it. He utilizes it just like animal. The animal eats; *we simply make arrangement of eating unnaturally. That is our advancement. In the animal kingdom, every particular animal has got a particular type of food. Just like tiger. A tiger eats flesh and blood, but if you give tiger nice oranges or grapes, he'll not touch it, because that is not his food. Similarly, a hog. A hog eats stool. If you give the hog nice halavā, it will not touch. You see? So every particular animal has got a particular type of food. Similarly, we human beings, we have got our particular type of food also. What is that? Fruits, milk, grains. Just like our teeth is made*-you take a fruit, you can easily cut into pieces by this tooth. But if you take a piece of flesh, it will be difficult to cut with these teeth. But a tiger has got particular type of teeth, he can immediately cut into pieces the flesh. So we are advancing in education, but we do not study even of our teeth. We simply go to the dentist. That's all. This is our advancement of civilization. The tiger never goes to dentist. Although its teeth are so strong that immediately he can into pieces, but he doesn't require a dentist, because he doesn't eat anything which is unnatural for him. But we eat anything damn; therefore we require the help of dentist.

*So our human being has got a particular type of business. That business is to study or to discuss on the bhāgavata life. That is our natural. Bhāgavata*-dharma. We should try to understand Bhagavān. Bhāgavata-dharma, I have already explained. Bhagavān and the bhakta or bhāgavata, their relationship, that is called bhāgavata-dharma. So it is very easy. How? Now simply you have to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavān, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like suppose we have forgotten our home. I left my home since a long time, I've forgotten my father. So if somebody reminds me, "Do you know such gentleman? He is your father. You were playing in such a way, his father was helping you," in this way, if you simply talk of his father, he remembers his home: "Oh, yes." Similarly, we have forgotten our father, our relationship with father. If we simply hear about Him, then we remember. A simple process.

*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ 'stho hy abhadrāṇi

*vidhunoti suhṛt*-satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*Simply we have to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, and we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa or forgotten our supreme father on account of material contamination. So if we hear about Kṛṣṇa attentively, just like you are doing now, kindly, it is very good opportunity. I thank you very much. You are all young boys and girls, but you are very fortunate. Your fathers, grandfathers, do not come here. But you have come. So because you are fortunate. So similarly, continue this. Just try to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Your life will be successful. You haven't got to do anything. It doesn't require that you have to become a master of degree examination, M.A., Ph.D. or D.S.C. No. God has given you these two ears, and if you kindly submissively hear from the realized souls, then your life will be successful. Actually, that is happening. All these boys and girls who have come to me in different parts of the world, simply by hearing... I have not bribed them, I have no money. So they are sacrificing their everything for me. Why? Simply by hearing me. That's all. So the hearing is so strong. And they are educated boys, they're university graduates. I'm not befooling them. But as they're hearing, they're understanding the gravity of the movement and gradually they're becoming convinced and firmly situated in the post. So this is called bhāgavata*-dharma.



So we are giving opportunity to everyone to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Of course, in your country it is new. But in our country, in India, still although India is fallen in so many ways, still, if there is some bhāgavata discourses, throngs of people, crowds will come there. We are holding bhāgavata discourses in Calcutta, Bombay, Delhi, Madras, Jaipur, big, big cities. So in Calcutta and Bombay we saw thirty thousand people were daily attending, continually, for ten days. Similarly in Bombay. So although there is propaganda in India to forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but how they can forget? They're born in a land where Kṛṣṇa appeared. They cannot forget. They have been given the opportunity, took birth in India. That is also due to pious activities. But unfortunately they are being forced to be dragged. I do not wish to discuss this point. But Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is for Indians or for the Hindus or for... No. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. So within your country, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started since 1966 from New York, and gradually we are having more and more students and branches. So kindly continue this habit. Simply hear about Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will help you. He is within your heart. He'll help you in every way.

*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*Kṛṣṇa says, "If anyone is very serious and sincere, and constantly engaged in My devotional service," satata... Satata means constantly. Satata-yuktānām. Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam: "Engaged in devotional service with love and faith." For them, Kṛṣṇa says, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam: "I give him intelligence." Because Kṛṣṇa is in everyone. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart*-in my heart, your heart, everyone's heart. So He gives you intelligence. What kind of intelligence? The intelligence by using which one can come or go back to home, back to Godhead. That intelligence. So these bhāgavata-dharma discourses mean constantly calling, "My dear sir, please get up, please get up." Jīva jago jīva jago gauracandra bole. This is the message of Lord Caitanya. He says, "My dear jīva, living being, kindly get up. This is the opportunity."



So I was explaining Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song. Let me finish it. He says:

hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā

jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu



He says, "My dear Lord, I got this valuable human form of life, but I have wasted it for nothing. Because this life is meant for understanding Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. But I did not do so; *therefore I have taken poison with knowledge." Just like sometimes (to) make suicide, he takes poison. He knows that as soon as he'll take the poison he'll die. Similarly, one who is not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means he's taking poison. This is the opportunity of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if you don't take this opportunity, that means knowingly I am drinking poison. Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. So what is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Golokera prema*-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. This hari-nāma saṅkīrtana. Just like we receive vibration from the radio from different countries. Similarly, this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, this vibration we are receiving from the spiritual world. Golokera prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana rati nā janmilo kene tāya. "I could not get my attachment to this transcendental vibration." Viṣayā-viṣānale divā-niśi hiyā jvale taribāre nā khāinu upāya. "I am suffering constantly with the poison of this materialistic way of life, and I did not try to get out of it by taking shelter of this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra." Then he says that vrajendra-nandana yei śacī-suta haila sei. "In this age, the same Supreme Personality of Godhead who appeared five thousand years ago as the son of Nanda Mahārāja, vrajendra-nandana..." Nanda Mahārāja was the king of Vraja, vrajendra, and his nandana, his son, that means Kṛṣṇa. Vrajendra-nandana yei śacī-suta haila sei. "That Kṛṣṇa has appeared in this age as the son of mother Śacī." Lord Caitanya's mother's name was Śacī-devī. Balarāma haila nitāi. "Balarāma, the same Balarāma who appeared as Kṛṣṇa's elder brother, he has appeared as Nityānanda, Gaura-Nitāi." So what is Their business? Pāpī-tāpī yāta chila harināme uddhārila. Their business is... There are two kinds of people within this material world. Another one is committing sin and the other is suffering the sinful reaction. Pāpī-tāpī. That is our business. In this life, I am suffering the resultant action of my past impious activities, and I'm creating another set of impious activities so that I shall suffer next life. This is our position. Pāpī-tāpī yāta chila. Therefore there are two kinds of activities. Pāpī-tāpī yāta chila, harināme uddhārila. But all these people can be delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)





720930LE.LB

Lecture

-

Laguna Beach, September 30, 1972



Prabhupāda: This is Deity room?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Where is karatāla? It is very hot. [break]



*Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here to participate in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are calling everyone to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just now we described the place where we intend to go. That is Goloka Vṛndāvana. There the Supreme Personality of Godhead is residing with His consort Rādhārāṇī. Rādhā-Mādhava. Kṛṣṇa is the husband*-not exactly husband, but friend. The same mellow. As you try to enjoy here, boy and girlfriend, not married, but an extra ecstasy without being married, conjugal love, the ideal conjugal love is there, Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā. Here the same thing is present, but in a perverted sense. The origin is there. Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī. Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, They are always engaged in loving affairs in the kuñja, in the bushes of Vṛndāvana. Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī, gopījana-vallabha. He is very dear to the gopīs and the gopas. Gopas means the cowherd men and the cowherd boys. So Vṛndāvana is village life. It is not a town like Los Angeles. It is village. It is village, and they are always taking pleasure on the bank of Yamunā. Yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī. And there are very nice gardens on the bank of the Yamunā. And whenever there is some danger... Of course, in the original Vṛndāvana there is no question of danger. It is blissful, transcendental abode. But when Kṛṣṇa comes down to show us the replica of the original Vṛndāvana... That Vṛndāvana is there on this planet in India, about ninety miles from New Delhi. It is exactly the same Vṛndāvana, but because it is on this material world, it appears that there is sometimes danger. So when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, on this planet, so there was some danger. Actually there was no danger because Kṛṣṇa was present. But it appeared like that. So there was torrents of rain for seven days. The Indra, the demigod who is in charge of the watering department of this universe, he... (someone laughs) Don't laugh. It is very serious. So he became very angry. Kṛṣṇa stopped demigod worship, Indra worship, so he became very angry. So there was torrents of rain for seven days continually, and Kṛṣṇa took up a hill which is called Govardhana Hill-if sometimes you come to Vṛndāvana, you will see the Govardhana is there-as the umbrella on the, what is called finger, ring finger? No. Small finger. So jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī, gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī. Immediately lifted the big mountain as umbrella like this. So when Kṛṣṇa was present, although He was playing like an ordinary human child or human being, still, when there was need, He manifested His godly power. That is God. When it was needed to protect the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, He lifted a big hill, and since then His name is Giri-vara-dhārī. Giri-vara-dhārī means that hill, and He sustained that hill. He was at that time seven years old from material calculation.

*But in the original Vṛndāvana there is no such thing as the wrath of Indra, the king of heaven, and danger or torrents of rain overflood, inundation. There is no such thing. There everything is blissful, transcendental and eternal. Here we have got a little sample, because whatever you have got in this material world, that is simply imitation, a shadow of the original. Sometimes... You can understand that on the desert sometimes it appears there is a vast ocean of water, mirage. But actually there is no water. Those who are animals, they sometimes are misled. They are thirsty, and they think that there is water in the desert, and they run over, but actually there is no water. The animal runs, and the water also advances. In this way, when he becomes too much fatigued, he dies. This is the exact example of this material world. We are hankering after water, we are thirsty, and we are being misled by so*-called water, mirage, Just like while I was coming here, both sides, the manifestation of material civilization, electrical wire pumping station of oil, big, big motorcars light, motel, hotel and so many things... So we are thinking that these things will give us relief; *our thirst will be quenched, our hankering for water will be satisfied. But it has failed. In your country especially*-not in your country, in all countries-so many young flowers of your country, they are frustrated. That's a fact. (aside:) What is that sound? They are frustrated. That is a fact. You know; *I know. So this kind of mirage, showing of water-actually there is no water*-a shadow of water will not help us. That is a fact. But because there is shadow of water, we can understand that there is real water. It is not that the shadow of water is all in all, finished. There is water. But we have to seek out that water elsewhere, not in the desert. In the desert the shadow of water will not quench your thirst.

So that information we are giving. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that you do not know where that water is to be found, how your great thirst will be satisfied. That you do not know.

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni-baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*They do now know what is the ultimate goal of life, our self*-interest. Everyone must be self-interested, but we do not know what is self-interest. There is no education what is the ultimate goal of life. Na te viduḥ. They are trying to satisfy themselves to become happy and prosperous by adjusting this material nature. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means giving more importance to this materialistic way of life. That is called bahir-artha-māninaḥ. God has got many energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. In the Vedas we understand that the Supreme Lord has manifold energies, and whatever we see, that is the activities of His energy. Just like electric energy. The energy is coming out from the powerhouse, and by utilizing that electric energy, we are working in so many ways: heater, cooler, this microphone, tape recorder, so many things. But the energy is coming from that powerhouse. Similarly, whatever you are seeing, wonderful action of the material action and reaction, they are simply interaction of different energies of the Lord, heat and light. Any scientist will understand that this whole cosmic manifestation is creation of heat and light, two energies. The two energies are coming from the sun, and the material world is creation of the sunshine, heat and light. Similarly there are two energies of God, heat and light. So one is called material energy, another is called spiritual energy, although both of them coming from the supreme spirit, exactly like heat and light is coming from the sun. But heat is not light; *light is not heat. There is distinction. This is called inconceivable one and difference simultaneously. Acintya*-bhedābheda tattva. This is our philosophy. Nothing is different from God, but not that everything is God. Simultaneous one and different. So two energies are working, material and spiritual. The spiritual energy is called superior, and the material energy is called inferior. Just like matter. Material energy means earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, ego, and spiritual energy means spiritual force, the living force. So every one of us, combination of two energies, spiritual energy and material energy. You can understand it. As soon as the spiritual energy is off from the combination of this material energy, it is simply lump of matter. It cannot move. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yayā idaṁ dhāryate jagat. The whole world is moving by the combination of material and spiritual energy, and both of them coming from one source, exactly like that, that both heat and light is coming from the sun. But they are working differently or working combinedly.



*So this world, this material world, although it is not different from God, but still, it is not God. So we have to transfer ourself from this material energy to the spiritual energy. That is the business. So long we are in the lower form of life... This human form of life is considered the upper or better form of life, whereas the animals, the trees, the aquatics, the insects, the reptiles... There are so many, 8,400,000 forms of life. Out of that, this human form of life, especially the civilized form of life, this is elevated life of developed consciousness. The consciousness of human form of life is different from the consciousness of aquatic life or tree life or plant life or cat life or dog life. This is the developed consciousness of life. Why this developed consciousness of life is given by God? To understand God. This is the only business. This developed consciousness of life is being misused in the matter of animal life. The modern scientific advancement or philosophical speculation, they are trying to adjust how we can enjoy our sense life better. But after all, it is sense life. Better or inferior, there is no such question. Suppose a glass of water, given in golden glass tumbler or in earthen tumbler. The taste of the water is the same. Similarly, the taste of life is eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. So either in the dog's life or human life, the taste of eating or taste of sex life is the same. The same example. You drink water in different pots, either golden pots or earthen pot*-it doesn't matter-but the taste of the water is the same. It is not different. Simply because you put the water in a golden pot, therefore it does not mean that the taste of the water also will change. No. The taste will remain the same.

*So we are trying simply to taste the same water in different pots, sometimes in the pot of the body of a dog, sometimes in the pots of the body of a hog and sometimes in the pot, in the body of a human being. So this taste is common for everyone. The human developed consciousness is meant for something else, not for tasting these things*-eating, sleeping, sex life and defending. That developed consciousness is meant for understanding what is God. But in the modern civilization that higher developed consciousness is being utilized for changing the pot. Suppose I have come here in Laguna Beach by nice..., on a nice motorcar. So it is a pot only, that's all. I could come here walking or in another vehicle. So there was no difference. It would have taken little more time. But we are thinking, because we have got this motorcar instead of a bullock cart, we are advanced in civilization. That is the mistake. Because either you travel on a bullock cart or in a motorcar, your business is to transport from one place to another, that's all. It may save some time. You may feel some extra pleasure. No pleasure actually. Rather, bullock cart is comfortable because this motorcar, you are always thinking, "There may not be any accident." Yes. Always they are afraid. And there is happening accident. Recently one of our devotee has died. So many people are dying. So this material advancement of life means you create little convenience, and side by side, you create so many inconvenience. That you must. You have created motorcar. That's all right. But side by side, you have created death by motor accident, so many. What is the statistics in your country? How many people are dying?

Devotee: Sixty thousand a year.



*Prabhupāda: Sixty thousand a year. So in this way you cannot be happy, because the more you advance in material civilization, the more you become complicated. The real purpose is to go back to home, back to Godhead. We are missing the point. There is no guarantee. We have been given this chance of human form of body by nature's way, by the evolutionary process, coming through, transmigrating through 8,400,000 species of life. We have got this human form of life, developed consciousness to understand God, not increasing the comfort from bullock cart to motorcar. No. Not for this purpose. The so-called scientists, they are thinking that we are advancing in civilization from the primitive form, transport by bullock cart to motorcar. But that is not actually advancement. We are missing the point that this human form of life was meant for realizing God, realizing self. But we are misusing that higher intelligence and consciousness for manufacturing motorcar. And they are very much proud of advancement. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. This is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata in one verse. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These rascals, they do not know what is the aim of life. They are captivated by the external energy of God. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni-baddhāḥ. They are led by blind leaders. All these materialistic leaders, the politicians, the scientists, the philosophers, the technologists and so on, businessmen, so on, so on, and all these material*-they are all blind and they are leading other blind. So what will be? The result will be catastrophe, because both of them are blind. If one man is with eyes, he can lead another thousands of men, blind men: "Please come. I shall help you crossing the road." But if the leader is also blind and the followers are blind, then what is the result? That is happening. They are thinking that "By bodily comfort, by sense gratification, we shall be happy." But that is not possible. We do not know. Actually we have no knowledge. Dehāntaraṁ-prāptiḥ.



*In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntaraṁ*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*You, me-every one of us*-is encaged within this body. I am spirit soul; *you are spirit soul. That is the Vedic injunction. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman." That means spirit. Not Parabrahman. Don't mistake. Parabrahman is God. We are Brahman, part and parcel of God, fragments, but not the Supreme. Supreme is different. Just like you are American, but the supreme American is your president, Mr. Nixon. But you cannot say that "Because I am American, therefore I am Mr. Nixon." That you cannot say. Similarly, you, me, every one of us, Brahman, but that does not mean we are Parabrahman. Parabrahman is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. Īśvara means controller. So every one of us is controller to some extent. Somebody is controlling his family, controlling his office, business, controlling his disciples. At last, he is controlling a dog. If he hasn't got to control anything, he keeps a dog to control, a pet dog, a pet cat. So everyone wants to be controller. That's a fact. But the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Here the so*-called controller is controlled by somebody else. I may control my disciples, but I am controlled by somebody else, by my spiritual master. So nobody can say that "I am the absolute controller." No. Here you will find the so-called controller, certainly controller to some extent, but he is controlled also. But when you find somebody that He is controller only, not controlled by anyone, that is Kṛṣṇa. To understand Kṛṣṇa is not very difficult. Try to understand that everyone is controlling, every one of us, but at the same time being controlled by somebody else. But we find a gentleman whose name is Kṛṣṇa. He is controlling everyone, but He is not controlled by anyone. That is God.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific, authorized and understandable by reasonable man. So if you kindly take interest in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you'll be benefited. Your life will be successful. Your aim of life will be achieved. That is a fact. So you can try to read our literatures. We have got many books. You can come and see practically how our students are doing, advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You can try to learn from them by association. Just like if one wants to become a mechanical man, he enters into a factory and associates with the worker, mechanics, and gradually he also becomes a mechanic, a technologist. Similarly, we are opening these centers just to give opportunity to everyone to learn how to go home, how to go home, back..., how to go home, back to Godhead. That is our mission. And it is very scientific and authorized, Vedic. We are receiving this knowledge direct from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is Bhagavad*-gītā. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without nonsensically comments. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are placing the same proposal, that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. We are not changing it. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Become My devotee. Always think of Me. Worship Me. Offer your obeisances unto Me." We are teaching all people that "You think of Kṛṣṇa always-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare." By chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you will always think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65]. So our method is very simple. We don't manufacture any new method. Why new method? The old method is very perfect, authorized, accepted by great ācāryas. And they are, actually, are benefited. So why we shall manufacture? What is my brain? I am a teeny. We haven't got to manufacture, neither we can manufacture anything perfect, because I am imperfect. We can simply catch up the perfect things. Then we become perfect. That is our process. So Kṛṣṇa, the supreme perfect, His teachings are there in the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We are taking, accepting that. And we are preaching the same philosophy throughout the world, and they are accepting it, and I wish all of you who are present here will kindly accept this philosophy and make your life successful.



Thank you very much. (end)



721129LE.HYD

Rotary Club Lecture

-

Hyderabad, November 29, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Rotarians and Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly inviting me in this important meeting of very respectable gentlemen of the city. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,



yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

tat tad eva itare janaḥ

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

[Bg. 3.21]



*Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. There are leading men in every society*-in government post and educational institution, in business, and so many other fields. In every field of activity, there are leading men. That is natural. And in the Vedas we understand the supreme leading person is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Leaders must be accepted. Just like father is necessary, similarly, leader is also necessary. Guru is also necessary. So according to Vedic verse, Vedic version, we can understand that the supreme leader is Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, God, a person. The conception of Absolute Truth, as given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: [SB 1.2.11] "The Absolute Truth is realized from three angles of vision-as the impersonal Brahman, the localized Paramātmā and the Supreme Personality of Godhead." The, this Bhagavān, this word, is used at the end in the matter of describing the nature of Absolute Truth.



*So those who are trying to understand the Absolute Truth by philosophical speculation, they can reach up to the impersonal Brahman effulgence of the Absolute Truth. Similarly, those who are trying to find out the Absolute Truth within the heart... Dhyānāvasthita*-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. They are generally called yogis. And the philosophical speculators, they are called jñānīs. So jñānī, yogi. So the jñānīs, they reach up to the impersonal Brahman effulgence, and the yogis, they reach up to the localized aspect of the Supreme Person. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvara, the Supreme Person, is within your heart, everyone's heart. Sarva-bhūtānām. Not only human beings, but also animals, trees, insects, aquatics. There are 8,400,000 forms of life. So in each and every living entity, within the heart, there is representation of God, who is known as Paramātmā. So brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. At last, Bhagavān. Bhaga. Bhaga means opulence, and van means possessing. So the possessor of the opulences in full is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is described in Vedic literature as Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. There is a list of different incarnations of God. Even Lord Buddha's name is there. So the con..., in the conclusive portion it is said, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. All these descriptions of the incarnations, they are plenary portion or portion of the portion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But the name we find here as Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Svayam. He is the original Personality of Godhead. Similarly, we get information from other Vedic literatures. Just like Brahma-saṁhitā. It is written by Lord Brahmā. And when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was present on this planet, He collected the copy of this book from South India, Ādi-Keśava Mandira, and presented it to His devotees, that "This is authorized book." There were hundred chapters of this book. Unfortunately, they're missing. This is only the Fifth Chapter. But it contains the essence of theology.

*So in that book, Brahma*-saṁhitā, the beginning is:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*The Supreme Person, or Īśvara... The word īśvara means controller. So everyone is controller. All of you are present here, to some extent, every one of us is a controller to a limited extent. But here it is mentioned, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. Parama means ultimate. We are controller, every one of us, but we are controlled also. That is our position. Nobody can say... All the gentlemen, ladies present here, nobody can say that "I am controller absolute." That is not possible. Everyone is relative controller. But if you try to find out who is the absolute controller, then He's Kṛṣṇa. This has been analyzed by great scholars in the Vedic śāstras, by the Gosvāmīs, and this is the statement of Lord Brahmā, who's supposed to be the first creature within this universe. So he says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: "Īśvara, the supreme ultimate controller, is Kṛṣṇa. And He's vigraha." Vigraha means person, with body. Just like we have got body, similarly, the Absolute Supreme Person has also body. But His body is different from ours. Sac-cit-ānanda-vigraha. His body is eternal. Our body, this material body, is not eternal. Sat cit. His body is full of knowledge. Our, this body, is full of ignorance. And ānanda. He's full of joyfulness. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Supreme Person is always joyful, abhyāsāt, naturally. So our, this body is not ānandamaya; it is, rather, always miserable. Therefore we must distinct the body of the Supreme Person from our body.



*When sometimes in the Vedic literature it is explained as God has no form, that does not mean He has no form. He has a form which is different from this form. Nirākāra. Nirākāra means not this ākāra. We can distinguish. Because in the śāstra it is said that sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], "eternal, blissful and fully cognizant." He knows everything. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I know everything, past, present and future." That is knowledge. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is also stated, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Abhijñaḥ: He knows everything. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said also: kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Kṣetrajñaḥ. Kṣetrajña means the proprietor of the body, the owner of the body. Just like you are a spirit soul, owner of your body. I am also a spirit soul. I am owner of the body. I know to some extent the pains and pleasure of my body. You know, to some extent, the... I say "to some extent" because we are not... Although I am the proprietor of this body, still... I do not know how the body is acting, functioning, why there is pain, why there is pleasure. So many things, we do not know-partially we know-although I am the proprietor. If there is some defect in the bodily function, I cannot detect it. I go to another person, a physician. So although I am proprietor of this body, I do not know exactly what is functioning, how it is becoming in happy condition or in morose condition. So... But supposing that I know everything, but still, I do not know what is happening in your body. That is not possible. Therefore it is concluded that we are individuals. We are individuals. I have got my individual pains and pleasures; you have got your individual pains and pleasures. So you are individual person; I am individual person. And the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is also individual person. Nityo nityānām. This is Vedic information. We are plural number, nityānām. Cetanaś cetanānām. He's the supreme living force amongst all other living forces.

*So therefore... In the Bhagavad*-gītā also, it is said that, when Kṛṣṇa was advising Arjuna in the Battlefield, He said, "My dear Arjuna, all these persons, you and Me, and all these persons, it is not that we did not exist in the past. Neither it is so that we shall not exist in the future." This is... So these three things are pointed out: "You, Me and all these soldiers and kings." So all of them are individual. All of them are individual persons. And Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, He's also individual person. But what is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself? That Kṛṣṇa, as it is stated in the Vedas, eka, that one singular number person. Vidadhāti kāmān. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's supplying the necessities of life to all these plural number living entities. So therefore He's the supreme controller.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



And He's the cause of all causes. Just like I am born; *the cause is my father. And the cause of my father-his father, my grandfather. And go on searching-his father, his father, his father*-and then you'll have to reach the original person, Brahmā. Then if you find, or try to find out who is the cause of Brahmā, then you'll find that this cause is the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And what is the cause of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu? Then you'll find Kāraṇa, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the cause is Saṅkarṣaṇa. In this way, you will find, ultimately, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, cause of all causes. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā:



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



"I am the cause of all causes."



*The Vedānta*-sūtra says, "Who is the Absolute Truth?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra means to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is the duty of the human form of life. It is a very big subject matter. So this human birth, form of life, we have got after so many evolutions: aquatics, then trees, then plants, then insects, then birds, then beasts. Then we come to the platform of this human being, especially civilized human being. And especially born in India. For this reason, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that Indian people have got a special mission. He said, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. Anyone who is fortunate enough to get his birth in Bhārata-varṣa, janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra. Paropakāra. Indian, Indians are meant for doing welfare activities to others. Because in India you have got the culture which is actually human culture. Human culture means to understand God, to understand Kṛṣṇa; *that is human culture. Otherwise, if you simply improve the four principles of animal life, that is not culture. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etad paśubhiḥ narānām. Eating: animal eats; we also eat. And if we make some improvement in the eating matter, that is not advancement of civilization. Similarly in sleeping matter. A dog lies on the ground; *we lie down on very silk bed and very nice apartment. But we are thinking this is advancement of civilization. No. This is not advancement of civilization. The advancement of civilization is that "Why I am put under the material laws?" Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu-darśanam [Bg. 13.9]. One must be complicated... Everyone is trying to live. Nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to take birth. He's afraid of dying and again entering into the womb of mother. But less intelligent class of men, because they cannot make any solution, they make a wash-off: "Oh, there is no life after death." No. That's not fact. That's not fact. There is life.

*In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntaraṁ*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Tathā dehāntaraṁ-prāptir. Just like we have got different types of body in this life. I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man, I..., I was a something else. Now I have got this old body. So as I am existing after changing so many different phases of body, therefore the conclusion should be that after annihilation of this body, I shall exist, and, which is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. After destruction of this body, actually we are not going to die. Our subtle body-the mind, intelligence and ego*-that is, that is working. As it, the subtle body, works during my sleeping position, similarly, this body may be, gross body may be annihilated, but my subtle body carries me to another gross body as I desire. Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, is very kind. As we desire, He gives us opportunity. Any kind of body, any kind of enjoyment we want, He gives us the opportunity: "All right, you take this body. And you wanted to enjoy like this. All right, you enjoy." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. He is sitting in everyone's heart as the Supersoul, and even if we forget, He reminds: "My dear living entity, you wanted to do this; *now you do it." So this is the process going on. But unfortunately, there is no educational system throughout the whole world about the activities of the soul, how he is working in different evolutionary process, what is his ultimate goal of life, wherefrom he's coming, where he's gone, what is the relation. So many things, we have to know. But we are placed in ignorance on account of blind leaders. We do not know the problems of life. We are blind, and we are led by other blind leaders into still blindness. Viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām.



matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*Adānta*-gobhiḥ. Our senses are uncontrolled, so our senses are dragging to the darkest region of existence. We do not know that. But we are simply chewing the chewed. We do not try to solve the problem of life; *we are simply chewing the chewed. The so*-called sociology, politics, or humanitarian work, it is simply chewing the... Just like we are trying to open hospitals. We think it is very great task. But we can... We do not think that how to get out of the diseased condition of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9].



So there are so many things, problems of our life; *we are neglecting. And everything is very clearly described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. It is being, explained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. We should take advantage of these lessons in the Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately, in the foreign countries, before me, many other swamis went, tried to explain Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is very well known book of knowledge. In America and Europe and other countries there are many translations. But the Bhagavad-gītā, such translation is taken as a mental speculation. They do not take it seriously that this, "This is the statement by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it cannot be commented with my poor knowledge. What I am in comparison to Kṛṣṇa? He is tri-kāla-jña. He knows present, past, future, everything. What do I know? So my interpretation..." Just like "Kurukṣetra means this body," or "The five Pāṇḍavas means the five senses." If we interpret in that way, Bhagavad-gītā, according to our whims, we'll never understand what is the purport of Bhagavad-gītā. We have to learn Bhagavad-gītā as it is; *otherwise, we'll miss the opportunity. Just like Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetra is still there, existing. Everyone, you know. While passing through Delhi to Punjab side you find the Kurukṣetra. The, the field is also there. It is a very big field, and in the śāstra, in the Vedas, it is said, kurukṣetre dharmam ācaret. So people go as a place of pilgrimage. So you cannot interpret Kurukṣetra otherwise. Kurukṣetra should be accepted as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1]. Then you'll understand Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there. Our request is-you are all respectable gentlemen, ladies, present here*-that kindly try to read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then you will understand the problems of your life, the solution also there. The solution is there, and the ultimate end of Bhagavad-gītā speaking: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the ultimate solution, that we have to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our... Because every one of us, in this material condition, we are trying to become master, ultimately to become God. That is māyā. That is illusion. We cannot become master. We are servant by constitution. Every one of us sitting here is a servant to somebody. Nobody can deny it. Either he may be servant of his family or his community or his country or... So many things... If one has no master, then he keeps a dog to become his servant. That is the nature. We are all servants. The, our thinking that "I shall become master," that is māyā.

*So our ultimate goal of life is to become in our original purpose, servant of God. That is our perfection of life. That is called mukti. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. Mukti means when we give up our artificial way of life. The artificial way of life is that we are trying to become master. That is artificial. We are not master. Constitutionally we are servant. But that servitude is interlinked in the service of the Supreme Lord. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "The, all the living entities, they are My part and parcel." Just like this finger is the part and parcel of your body, similarly, we are also part and parcel of the body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are so many descriptions. It takes a long time. I don't wish to take much of your time. The... Just like our part of the body is this head, the part of the body is the hand, the part of the body is the belly, and the part of the body are the two legs. So the head is considered to be the brahminical portion of the society, and the arm is considered as the kṣatriya portion of the society, and the belly is the vaiśya part of the social body, and the legs are śūdras. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. So as you require to keep your body completely fit*-you require your head, you require your arms, you require your belly, you... Nobody is lower or higher. Of course, comparatively, when we see that the head is more important than the leg, but you cannot do deal, also without leg. Neither you can do without head. Everything is required in the social body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. So this scientific social system, a class, intelligent class of men, should be the head of the society. And the fighting class or the martial class of men, they should be the administrators. And the productive class, merchants and industrialists, they should be the belly of the society. And the laborer class, they should be the legs of the society. This is the idea we get from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

*So if we try to follow the already perfect statements in the śāstras, and if we apply in the, our practical life, then the whole human society will be perfect. Otherwise, if we do not follow the instruction which is perfect, already there in the śāstras-we manufacture or concoction*-the social order will never be perfect and there will be always a confusion. And that is going on. I have seen. I have traveled all over the world, especially in America. They're the richest country, but there is a confusion now. The younger section, they do not like to live like their father or grandfather. They want a different body, different life. They, they are joining this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they are in search of such thing, perfect thing. They are fed up with this materialistic way of life. Therefore... It is not that I am playing something magic; *it is the need of the present*-day situation, present-day civilization, that people want Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual advancement. So if we can administer the spiritual advancement of life in the proper way, as they are in our Vedic literatures, so we can contribute greatest contribution to the world, and that will glorify India's name. If we simply imitate them, or beg from them, then India's position is always remain as beggar. Because we are already known: "The nation of beggars." Because our ministers go there to ask, "Please give me this. Please give me this. Please give me." Nothing to contribute. Here is a thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We can contribute to the whole world. Please help this movement.

Thank you very much. (applause) (end)



721205LE.AHM

Rotary Club Lecture

-

Ahmedabad, December 5, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Rotarians, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly inviting me this evening to speak something on Sanātana*-dharma. Sanātana means eternal, and dharma also means eternal characteristic. Just like every ingredient, element, of this world has got a certain type of characteristic. As I have been introduced, I was manager in a chemical factory. So you know... (aside:) That sound may be stopped... that every chemical has got a certain characteristic-its color, its taste, its granules. In pharmacology and pharmaceutical formulas, each and every chemical is tested according to that characteristic. That characteristic is called dharma in Sanskrit word. Dharma is not a type of faith, as it is explained in English dictionary, "kind of faith." Faith you can change. Today you are Hindu: you can become Christian next day. Or today you are Christian; you can become a Muhammadan next day. So political field also, changing faiths. So dharma does not exactly mean a kind of faith. It is characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet. That is the characteristic of sugar. If sugar becomes pungent, then that is not sugar. That is something else. It may be some other chemical. When you go to purchase chili, you must test it, whether it is very strongly pungent. You do not expect chili should be sweet; then it is not very first quality chili. Similarly, we have got characteristic, we living entities... We are individual living entities. We have got characteristics. That characteristic is service. Our, the all the ladies and gentlemen who are sitting here, if we ask you what is your characteristic, you'll come to the conclusion that "My characteristic is to serve." Somebody is serving in the office. Somebody's serving in the government office. Somebody's serving as minister. Somebody's serving as governor. It is supposed to be that he is master, but actually he's serving. In family also, the head of the family, he's thinking that he's master, but he's servant. He's servant of his wife, of his children, even of his paid servant. Because he has to satisfy everyone. Not only one, but so many members of the family, he has to keep them satisfied; *otherwise, they may not be very much happy. So the nature of living entity is to satisfy others. Paraspara. And that business of satisfying others, serving for others' well*-being, that must be sanātana, eternal. Our characteristic, service, is eternal, and that should be eternally engagement. Here, in this material existence, I am serving, but my service is not eternal, because I am changing the body or I changing my profession. Sometimes I am serving this party, sometimes I am serving that party.



*So the conclusion should be that sanātana*-dharma means that the living entity is eternal, he must seek out his eternal service. That is called sanātana-dharma. Sanātana-dharma does not mean that having a great big tuft, and tilaka, or dressing in a certain manner, or... Then everything are changing. That is not sanātana-dharma. Whatever is changeable, that is not sanātana-dharma. Sanātana, try to understand sanātana. Sanātana means eternal, and the living entity, being eternal, he must have some eternal engagement. That is called sanātana-dharma. Here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, the word sanātana has come in many places. In one place, Second Chapter, twenty-fourth verse, it is said,

acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam

akledya aśoṣya eva ca

*nityaḥ sarva*-gataḥ sthāṇur

acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ



*Nitya, nityaḥ sarva*-gataḥ sthāṇur acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ. There are many other symptoms of the living entity. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, positively and negatively. In some of the verses, the definition is being given in negation: "It is not this." Because with our blunt material eyes, we cannot find out where is the soul in this body; *therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing the characteristic of the soul in a negative way in several verses. And you know that sometimes it is required, according to logic, that definition by negation: "It is not this." I cannot express for the time being a thing, what it is, but I can distinguish what it is not. So similarly, at the present moment, everyone is under ignorance. He does not know what is the soul. That is the basic principle of missing point of this material civilization. I talked with many big, big professors in Europe. Most of them, they do not know what is the soul. (aside:) That sound cannot be stopped for the time being? When I was in Moscow, I had the opportunity of talking with some professors. One of them was very interested, Professor Kotovsky. So he said, "Swamijī, after death everything is finished." So I was simply surprised that a responsible professor, teaching staff, he's completely in ignorance about the existence of soul. So that is the defect of the modern civilization. One who is not perfect in knowledge, he is as a teacher, he's passing on as a teacher. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Andhāḥ means blind. One blind man, he is trying to help other blind man. So what is the use of such advancement of education? If the teacher himself is blind, then what is the use of taking knowledge from him? That is going on.



*So defect of the modern civilization is andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. Very few men know what is the ultimate goal of life, what is soul, what is God, what is our relationship with God, how we have to lead our life, to achieve the ultimate goal of life. These things are very missing. We are trying to follow the same principles of animals. Animals, they are concerned with eating, sleeping, sexual intercourse and defending. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narānām. So they have got these propensities, animals, and we have got the same propensities. Sāmānyam. We are similar to the animals in the matters of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. But what... Then where is the distinction...? Just like animal eating on the floor. We are eating on the chair and table our nicely prepared foodstuff. But you are eating. So at the present moment, we are thinking that because we are eating on tables and chairs, we advance. That is our mistake. That is no advance. Eating... The benefit of eating, whatever you eat or the animal eats, it is the same. Eating means to maintain the body and soul together. So by advancing in the modes of eating, that does not mean advancement of civilization. Advancement in the modes of sleeping, that does not mean advancement of civilization. Similarly, advancement in the modes of sexual intercourse, it does not mean the advancement of civilization. Or advancement in defending, discovering atomic bombs for killing my enemy, that is also not advancement of civilization. Advancement of civilization means how much you have advanced to know the soul and the ultimate goal of the soul, how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



The... We living entities... We are all souls, living entities; *similarly, God is also a living entity. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He's the supreme living entity. Just like we have got leader*-in every society, in every country. Just like in our country we have got the president, the chief Indian. Or in America, Mr. Nixon, the chief Indian, uh, chief American. Similarly, there must be one chief, leader of the whole creation, and that is Kṛṣṇa. There must be. By logical conclusion, there must be a leader. That is... That indication we get from Bhagavad, yes, Vedas, Kaṭhopaniṣad: nityo nityānām. Who is God? God means the chief of all living entities. It is not very difficult to understand. Just like in order to manage the whole government, we require a chief man. In order to manage a big establishment, we require a chief man. So why not this cosmic manifestation, the whole cosmic, cosmology. Why not a chief person? That we do not know. Still, we are passing on as advancement of education. That we do not know, who is the chief. But we can understand from Bhagavad-gītā:



mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*We are... Big, big scientists, philosophers, we are trying to understand the activities of the material nature. We cannot go beyond that. That is also very imperfect. Our understanding of this material nature, how it is working, how things are happening in a systematic way, how the sun is rising exactly in due course, due time, how it is setting*-there are so many things we do not know. Just like we are trying to go the moon planet, but why we are becoming failure, at least, up to date? They say that there is no living entity in the moon planet, but here we find in the Bhagavad-gītā, nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ. The living entity is everywhere. At least, we find on this planet, even in deserted place, there are a certain type of vegetable. That is living entity. Sometimes some microbes. Sometimes insect. So the statement of Bhagavad-gītā is sarva-gataḥ: "Living entities everywhere." We practically see in our experience. We find living entities, the aquatics, in the water. We find living entities within the earth. There are so many insects. We find living entities in the air. We find living entities on the land, in the sky, and so many places. So this is confirmed: sarva-gataḥ. Nityaḥ. The living entity is eternal and he is everywhere. Sarva-gataḥ. Sthāṇur acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ. Sanātanaḥ. Concluding sanātanaḥ.



*So the sanātana*-dharma means that to find out the eternal engagement of the living entity. At the present moment, the living entity is changing the position. As we change our position even during this life-sometimes I am working in this office, sometimes working in that office, sometimes in this way, sometimes that way-similarly, we are changing eternally. We are creating our desires within the mind, thinking, feeling and willing, and according to the thinking, feeling and willing, we are getting a certain type of body, one after another. This is the process. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir [Bg. 2.13]. Just like in this span of life, I was a child. Everyone was. Everyone remembers. Then I became a boy. I was playing. I can remember what I was doing in my childhood, boyhood. Then I became a young man. That also I remember. But those things have passed as dream. Now I am a different condition of life as old man. But I, the spirit soul, I remember that I was a child, I was a baby, I was a boy, I was a young man. Now I am old man. So the conclusion should be that although I have changed my bodies, I remember all these things. So the body and the remembering capacity, mean the subtle body, thinking, feeling and willing... That is called subtle body. We are now encaged in two types of body. Just like you are encaged with shirt and coat, similarly, I or you, living entity, is encaged in two types of body. The subtle body is mind, intelligence and ego, and the gross body is made of five elements: fire, earth, water, air, fire, and ether. These are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So actually my position is that I can go everywhere. Just like we are trying. Because I have got the desire to go the moon planet, to the Venus planet, or any other planet, and they are trying with our, scientific knowledge. But because it is gross material, we are not yet successful. But the point is that I have got the desire to go this planet, to that planet. Just like we make tour, even on this planet. We want to go this place, that place, that place. So this is natural. Therefore here in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, sarva-gataḥ. You can go anywhere, everywhere. There are innumerable universes, and there are innumerable planets of different nature. And you can go. Sarva-gataḥ, sthāṇur acalo 'yam. So according to the different features, we get... Just like the aquatics. They have got a different type of body. They can very easily and very pleasingly, they can live within the water. But if you are pushed within the water, you'll die. You'll suffocate. So by nature's way, there are different types of body. They are going to the moon planet, but to live in the moon planet, you require a different type of body. That we get information from Vedic literature. In Bhagavad-gītā also, we get,

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*If you want to go to the planets of the demigods... The moon planet is also one of the planets of the demigods, according to the Vedic knowledge. So we get information from Bhāgavata, anyone who is promoted in the moon planet, he gets duration of life for ten thousands of years. Similarly, if you become, if you be able to go to the highest planet of this universe, which is called Brahmaloka, then you get your duration of life... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Sahasra-yuga means... One yuga, combination of this yuga, Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara and Kali, it, forty-three hundred thousands of years. And multiply it by one thousand*-that is the duration of one day in the Brahmaloka.



*So in different planets you have got different standard of living, you have different standard of duration of life. Just like there is so many distinctions even on this planet. Our standard of living and the standard of living of Europeans and Americans are different. Practically, a common man, when he goes to the Western country, from the materialistic point of view, one sees, "Oh, this is heaven. So many nice motorcars, so many nice roads, so many nice skyscraper building, standard of living so nice, earning money, facility, material happiness." So it may be taken as heaven, although it is a, the same planet. So we can very easily imagine that, from the description of the śāstra, that there are different types of planets and different types of standard of living, different types of knowledge, not different types, advancement of knowledge. In this way, the, you go higher and higher. There are higher planetary systems. This is called Bhūrloka. Above this, there is Bhuvarloka. Above that, there is Svargaloka. Above that, there is Janaloka. Above that, there is Mahar, Maharloka, Satyaloka, and Brahmaloka. Similarly, down, there are different planetary systems. But we living entities, we are traveling according to our desires, according to our plan. God is (in) everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. God is staying, He's there as Paramātmā. He is so friendly to the living entity. That is, that information we get from Vedic literature, that God and the living entity, both of them are sitting on the same tree. The same tree is this body. So within this body, within the heart, I am sitting there, and God is sitting there also. So God is simply observing what I am doing, what I am desiring, and He's giving me opportunity, "All right, you want to do this? Do it, and take experience." And the living entity is enjoying. It is compared with the tree because the living entity's enjoying the fruit of the tree, and the other living entity, Supreme, Paramātmā, He's simply witnessing. Witnessing, and giving you the result of your fruitive activities. That is called karma.

*So these things are very subtle matters, and we have got very, very scientific, authorized information of these matters. But people have become so degraded. They do not want to take any information of the soul, of the transmigration of the soul, of God, our relationship with God, what is the ultimate goal of life, why we are put into this miserable condition of life. Janma... You may say that "I am very happy." I may say, "I am very happy." But actually, there is no happiness. How there can be happy? Janma happiness? Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Actually who is in knowledge, he should know, "Where is happiness? I do not wish to die; I am dying. I do not wish to be diseased; I am diseased. I do not wish to become old; *I am becoming old. So where is my happiness?" This is called māyā. There is no happiness, but still, he's thinking that he is in happiness. This is called illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. So this is... Just like the animal is in illusion. A hog is eating stool, but he's thinking that "I am enjoying, very nice." He's becoming fat. This is called illusion. You are not happy. Nobody's happy in this material world. Therefore the inquiry should be... That is the Brahma*-sūtra. That is the Vedānta-sūtra: athāto brahma jijñāsā. Athāto brahma-jijñāsā. This human life is for understanding Brahman. What is that Brahman, Absolute Truth? That is required. If you are simply engaged, animal-like, eating, sleeping, mating, then where is the distinction between animal and us? There is no such distinction. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very important movement. We are trying to educate people to understand his self, self-realization, God realization, the duty, the aim of life, what is the aim of life. This is not aim of life-simply we forget, we forget, forgetful of our self, and we are thinking..., big, big professors, they are thinking, "Oh, after finishing this body, everything is finished." No, that is not the fact. Therefore it is stated that sanātana. Sanātana means eternal, and God is also eternal. And there is a place also, which is eternal. This place is not eternal. Just like your body is temporary, similarly, the whole material creation which you have got experience... We haven't got full experience. Whatever little experience we have got, that is also temporary. That is not sanātana. This whole material world is not sanātana, eternal. It is temporary. This body is also temporary. So our knowledge about this body and this world-insufficient knowledge. Therefore because we are eternal, we must find out an eternal and we must serve the eternal Supreme. That is called sanātana-dharma. This is sanātana-dharma. So we are teaching that sanātana-dharma.

So I am very pleased to meet you. You are all selected, respectable ladies and gentlemen of this city. So try to understand this movement very seriously and be benefited.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Indian man: ...in the same way...



Prabhupāda: Same way, we, because we like this, to enjoy this material world; therefore we have to accept a material body.



Indian man: No, no. But you said that we have to search after that soul and that is a group service you are undertaking. But what's the way to do it?



Prabhupāda: What... That we are teaching. You become our student. You'll learn. (laughter)



Indian man: Teach us what is the actually ultimate object of life...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Indian man: ...peace or knowledge? Is knowledge sufficient to cause peace, or we must find out some matter first some way? Anyway, without knowledge, whether peace can be had, without knowledge?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, if you have got right knowledge, then you have peace. And because you do not have right knowledge, you do not have peace. Peace is dependent on right knowledge. The right knowledge is, as described in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*This is the process of attaining peace, śānti. What is that? To understand that God is the proprietor of everything. But that we do not know. We are thinking, "I am the proprietor of everything." This is not knowledge. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. He is the supreme proprietor and enjoyer, but mistakenly, we are thinking, every one of us thinking, that "I am the enjoyer." And then other point is: bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram. God is the proprietor of places, all planets, all... But we are thinking, "I am, we, Americans, we are proprietor of this portion," "Indians, we are proprietor of this portion." But actually, we are not proprietor. I, I said to Americans several times that "That hundred years ago you were not proprietor of this land. You came, immigrated from Europe. And now, who can say, after two hundred years, who will remain the proprietor? But the land is there." So this temporary proprietorship is also ignorance. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. God is the supreme friend of everyone. He is sitting within the heart. He's trying to advise me, "My dear living entity, you do like this." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "Due to My presence, one can remember, one can forget." Forget also. That is due to the Supersoul. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam. By knowledge-Veda means knowledge*-by advancement of knowledge, one should know what is God. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise, eating, sleeping, mating knowledge is there in the animals. This is not knowledge. You must have perfect knowledge. Then you'll be happy. Then you'll be peace. And if you are misguided, bewildered, mad, then how you can be happy? So this knowledge is obtained, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: after struggling many, many, birth after birth. Bahūnām. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. "One who is actually in knowledge, one who is wise, māṁ prapadyate: he surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. When he understands, "Oh, Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa is everything." That mahātmā is very rare. So if you get perfect knowledge, if you surrender to God, then you'll be happy. Otherwise, there is no possibility. You go on, struggling.



Indian man: But then, uh, where is that last thing that...



Prabhupāda: You have asked already. Let him.



Indian man (2): Is there any sort of call (?) to contact self?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Indian man (2): Is there any subject matter to contact ātmā, or self, what we call?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Ātmā is there.



Indian man (2): Any matter of contacting him?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore your material method is imperfect to detect where is the soul. The soul is there, and the dimension is also there: one ten*-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. So you have no eyes to see. But soul is there; *that is evident. But as soon as the soul is gone, this body-is beautiful body*-is a dead lump of matter only. That distinction is there. Therefore we have to hear from the authority what is that soul. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing... First of all, He said that there is soul within this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehaṁ dehī, deha. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... [Bg. 2.13]. Because the soul is there, therefore we are changing different types of body. Just like because you are living, therefore there is coat and shirt. But if you are not living, what is the use of this coat and shirt? There is no question of coat and shirt. Similarly, because the soul is there, therefore the body has developed, according to the desire of the soul. But it is very, very minute. With our, these blunt eyes and blunt senses, we cannot capture. But there is. We have to conceive it from the authoritative statement of higher knowledge, knowledgeable person. Just like we are trying to learn from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is being taught by Kṛṣṇa. So things which are beyond your perception, you have to know it from authority. Just like the example: Who is my father? We cannot make any experiment. We cannot apply experimental knowledge to find out who is my father. That is not possible. But how we can know? The know it, I can know from the authority of the mother. The mother says, "This gentleman is your father," we have to accept. There is no other experimental... Similarly, the soul, which is beyond the perception of your material senses, you cannot make an experiment. You have no means. But you try to perceive that what is that thing, missing, that now the body is dead. Now, there is something. What is that something? That you have to learn from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. There is a dehī, there is a proprietor of this body, and he's changing from one body to another. This you have to understand from the authority. From experimental, you have not learned it, never you'll be able to learn it, not the scientists can discover. If they could discover, then no man would die. The medical science, if it could discover... So there are so many anomalies. Therefore you have to learn it only from the authority, and there is no other way. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti-pramāṇa means evidence from the Vedic knowledge. There is no other way.



Indian man: Sir, you said surrender, manasā vācā karmaṇā mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja. Now, does it mean that the initiative from the human being is completely surrendered to the almighty God? And if you surrender, is that, is there any initiative left for the human being?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because without we..., our present position is to defy the existence of God. This is our present position in material life. "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God." This is defying the authority of God. Therefore to understand God, you have to surrender; *otherwise it is not possible. You cannot defy and at the same time understand God. That is not possible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā*-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. You cannot understand God by challenging. Why God? Suppose we, we go to the president of our country. If I challenge, "Mr. President, what is your value? Can you tell me what you are?" you cannot know him. No. You have to surrender. You have to become friendly and serve him, please him. Then he'll understand. Sevonmukhe hi jivhādau svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. You cannot challenge. Just like the sun is not visible at night. If you challenge, "O sun, can you show me where you are?" No. You have to wait for his mercy. In the morning, you'll see. This is the process.



Indian man: Sir, my question still remains unanswered. I said when human being surrenders completely, as I said, manasā vācā karmaṇā...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Indian man: Now the initiative is completely taken away from the human being.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Indian man: How is a human being going to continue in this world if it has to exist, and if the initiative is not left to the human being, as you say that God is there and God has to be accepted? But my father, his father, his great*-godfather, everyone say that God exists. I'll be also telling my son, and his son, and his son. This is, this is passing on the very existence of God from mouth to mouth. And now, because there is a word like "God," do we blindly surrender to Him, an identity which human being has not seen...



Prabhupāda: No, no.



Indian man: No one in the world has seen that there is God? And...



Prabhupāda: You cannot say that no one has seen. You have not seen.



Indian man: I have not seen.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. (laughter)



Indian man: Yes, but there may be...



Prabhupāda: You cannot say others.



Indian man: ...that I take your word, and I...



Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, you should withdraw. You have not seen. But you cannot say others have not seen.



Indian man: I have not seen. That's why I...



Prabhupāda: That's all right. So you have to learn how to see. Then you have to learn how to see. You cannot see; you remain ignorant, fool, and you want to see God. You have to learn how to see God.



Indian man: But then, sir, so we, do we...?



Prabhupāda: First of all, you take this, that you do not know what is God. Now, you want to see God. Therefore you have to learn how to see God.



Indian man: Sir, I, I presumed right from the beginning that some human being surrenders to God...



Prabhupāda: That is the first principle.



Indian man: That is surrender.



Prabhupāda: That is the first principle.



Indian man: How is the initiative left to the human being? I, I...



Prabhupāda: That we are teaching. We are teaching, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." That is Kṛṣṇa's version. Our version is, "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore there is no difference between the versions.



Indian man (3): But he says that why should that surrender should be, when we know that we are..., God right within ourselves...?



Prabhupāda: Because you are... Because you are becoming old and you do not want to become old; therefore to save yourself, not to become old, you have to surrender.



Indian man: When we have the right knowledge, we have peace, and we have to maintain. That's all.



Indian woman: Excuse me, what do you or the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement have to say to me that is different from the essence of any of the major religions of the world, say, Christianity?



Prabhupāda: Every religion will say that you surrender unto God, either Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Christianity, or Muhammadan... The word is the same, but we are teaching the same thing, but in a very easiest process. That is our credit.



Indian man: But how long we have to surrender?



Prabhupāda: So long you do not die.



(laughter)

Indian man: We have got the knowledge now...



Prabhupāda: Then you are asking questions.



Indian man: ...we have got the knowledge now and...



Prabhupāda: If you have got the knowledge, then why you are asking?



Indian man: (indistinct)



Indian man (4): I think I'm not in the least. I do believe. Many of the physical and chemical phenomenas are being displayed by science these days. Even mere, mere existence of life can be reproduced in a test tube. The cells multiply...



Prabhupāda: What is that? What is that?



Indian man (4): The cells... The mere...



Prabhupāda: So have you produced any life?



Indian man (4): Pardon?



Prabhupāda: Have you produced any life?



Indian man (4): A protein can be made...



Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all say...



Indian man (4): Yes.



Prabhupāda: ...have you produced any life?



Indian man (4): They claim that a protein...



Prabhupāda: They claim. They claim.



Indian man (4): No, my question is...



Prabhupāda: My challenge is you cannot produce life. My challenge, you cannot produce life. That is false. You first of all produce life. Then come to me. (end)





721208LE.AHM

Rotary Club Lecture

-

Ahmedabad, December 8, 1972

"The Present Need of Human Society"



*Prabhupāda: Mr. President, Rotarians, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly inviting me to speak before you on the subject matter "The Present Need of the Human Society." At the present day... According to our Vedic calculation, this is called Kali*-yuga. Kali means disagreement and fighting, kālaḥ. So in this age, a slight disagreement will cause some fighting, some misunderstanding. And practically, this is the age of misguidance; *therefore it is called Kali*-yuga. So in different Purāṇas, the symptoms of Kali-yuga is described. Śāstra. Śāstra means tri-kāla-jña. Śāstra is not ordinary book. Therefore our Vedic literatures are known as apauruṣeya, "not written by ordinary human being." Ordinary human being, who is called, according to śāstra, conditioned souls, they are conditioned by so many, nature's law. So the imperfectness of the conditioned soul are described as that a conditioned soul is sure to commit mistake; however great he may be, he'll commit mistake. And... "To err is human," they say. And he may be illusioned. Not may be. He's illusioned. Illusioned means accepting something for something else. Just like we accept this body, material body, as self. That is the conception of the general people at the present moment, especially. "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra." Like that. Bodily conception of life. This is illusion. Actually, I am not this body. But because we are lacking knowledge, imperfect, insufficient knowledge, therefore we are accepting this body as self. This is called illusion. And the other imperfection is that we have got a cheating propensity. Cheating propensity means I do not know something definitely, but I present my theories as if I know perfectly. This is cheating. And the last is imperfectness of the senses. All our senses are imperfect. Take, for example, the eyes. We see under certain conditions: when there is light, sunlight or electric light, we can see. We cannot see what is beyond this wall. We cannot see which is very long distantly placed. We cannot see even the nearest, eyelid. Therefore our seeing power is conditioned. Similarly, all other senses.



*So we cannot have perfect knowledge by our imperfect senses. But at the present moment, especially in this age, we are accepting so many philosophers, scientists, although we know that their senses are imperfect. This imperfectness is increasing. We are not becoming liberated from imperfectness. But we are increasing due to this Kali*-yuga. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Canto. It is said there:

*tataś cānu*-dinaṁ dharmaḥ

satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā

kālena balinā rājan

naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ



*"With the progress, advancement of this Kali-yuga, these following items..." What is that? Now, dharma. First thing is dharma. People will decrease in the conception of dharma, religion. Religion. Religion does not mean a kind of faith. Religion, as I, I think, the other day I described here, the characteristic, the characteristic of the human being, of the living being-to serve. Actually, we are serving, every one of us. We are serving somebody. So everyone is serving. That is his characteristic. Just like a person now, today, is Hindu. Tomorrow he changes his faith, but the service continues. He cannot change the characteristic of service. You may be Hindu or you may be Mussulman, or you may be Christian*-you must be serving somebody. Or maybe... Not maybe; *actually*-who is superior to you. This is called dharma. According our Vedic principles, the dharma is the principle given by God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. You cannot manufacture dharma. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, He's giving you dharma, what is dharma. He advents, He appears: yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. He says, "When there is discrepancies in the principles of dharma, then I appear, I advent Myself."



*So in the Bhagavad*-gītā He is giving us the principles of dharma. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He said to Arjuna, "Because you are My very dear friend, I am giving you the most confidential information, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja." This is dharma. Dharma, satyam, truthfulness. That is also reduced, being reduce. Dharma means to become devotee of the Lord. That is practically not reduced. It is practically nil. And people have manufactured so many dharmas, dharma without the principle of God consciousness. So, according to Vedic principle, that is not dharma. Vedic principle says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is first-class religion which teaches people how to become devotee of the Supreme Lord. Paro dharmaḥ. Paraḥ means transcendental. There are many kinds of dharmas, and according to Vedic system, there are twenty different types of books, viṁśati-prakāśa-dharma, given by different sages. But the conclusion is that that is first-class dharma which is convenient for becoming a devotee of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, the same thing: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. In another place, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said, dharmaḥ projjita-kaitavo atra. Atra, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, Bhāgavate, projjhita. Projjhita means prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita, very cleansely swept away. That means it is taken away, projjhita. Just like we sweep very nicely, cleansely, our room, similarly all types of cheating religion is wiped out, swept away. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2].

*So dharma means, the conclusion is, dharma means that our constitutional position is to serve. But our service being misplaced, we are not happy. Actually, we are serving not any person, but we are serving our different types of desires*-kāma krodha lobha moha mātsarya-like that. That dharma, when it is reverted, transferred to the service of the Lord, that is called real dharma.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaitukyapratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*That service to the Lord should be without any desire, material desire. Spontaneous. "God is great. He is my supporter, maintainer." We should always remember that. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Actually, God is supporting. Now, at the present moment in India, especially in this part, there is scarcity water. Why? If we are independent of God, we can take advantage of the sea water. There is sufficient water. God also supplies water from the stock of sea water. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. One who cannot understand immediately the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, he can try to understand Him by His different potencies. Just like He says that "I am the taste of the water." Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, taste of water. Or the sweetness of water. So there is sufficient supply of water in the oceans and the seas. Then why we are in scarcity of water? Because that taste of the water should be changed by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, you cannot use. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can also change, by distilling the sea water or ocean water, but it will not be as tasteful as it is done by God. Or you can say "nature." The same water, taken from the ocean, transferred, transformed into cloud, the cloud is distributed, and water, rain, falls, you get nice distilled water, tasteful water. So if you are going to challenge, "There is no existence of God," then you can do it. Why don't you do it? Why you are so much in scarcity of water? I do not think any scientist can very boldly answer that "Yes, we can do, and we can defy the existence of God, or the mercy of God." That is not possible. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ [Bg. 7.8]. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the shining of the sun and the moon." Now, there, there are so many great scientists, and expert in chemical composition, making chemical composition. Why not make a small sun on the head of the Ahmedabad City so that you save so much expenditure of electric light? They will say, "Oh, the composition of the sun is like this, that"-so many theories. But why not prepare one? If you know the composition, make it, a sample sun, and see that it is shining.



*So they, there are many, so many theories for avoiding God consciousness. But that's not very practical. Therefore in the Kali*-yuga, it is said, dharma satyam, the truth is neglected, the dharma is neglected. It is reduced. Another place in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said,

prāyenālpāyuṣaḥ (sabhya)

kalav asmin yuge janāḥ

*mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo

*manda*-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ

[SB 1.1.10]



*This is summarized, summarization of the kind of people in this Kali*-yuga. What is that? Alpāyuṣaḥ. Their span of life is shortened. Here also it is said, āyuḥ, āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ. Bodily strength, span of life, and memory reduced. Formerly, there was no need of book. Therefore our Vedic literatures are known as śruti. The student will hear from the master, from the teacher, śruti. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Simply by hearing, they'll remember. That was going on up to the date of Vyāsadeva, five thousand years ago. There was no writing principle. There was no need of writing. People were so much powerful in their memory, they could immediately remember everything by hearing once from the teacher. Then Vyāsadeva, when he saw the Kali-yuga is coming, people's memory will be not so sharp, then he wrote all these Vedic literature. He's called Veda-vyāsa. Vedic knowledge was already there by tradition, by hearing, but he chronologically wrote all these Vedas. So there are so many symptoms. I may explain some of them. Kālena balinā rājan naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ: "These things will be reduced: dharma, truthfulness, cleanliness, and forgiveness, and mercifulness." People are not very merciful now. Especially in the Western countries, if one is attacked by another, people will pass. Nobody will care for that. He may be killed. People do not show any mercy. And kṣamā. Kṣamā means forgiveness. That is also being reduced. Memory reduced, merciful reduced, span of life reduced, bodily strength reduced, health is reduced. This is the symptom of Kali-yuga.



*So... Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra*-guṇodayaḥ. Formerly, there were divisions. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The four social divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And they were calculated according to guṇa and karma, quality and work. Brāhma ṇa means he must be truthful, he must be very clean. Satya śaucam. He must be controlling his mind, controlling his senses. Śamo damas titikṣa. He must be tolerant. Titikṣa ārjava. He must be simple. Ārjava, jñānam. He must have full knowledge. Vijñānam, practical application in life. Vijñānam āstikyam. Āstikyam means to accept the Vedic principle as truth. That is called āstikyam. Theism. It is translated as "theism," but it is not. Āstika, āstikya means to have firm faith in the Vedic instruction. That is called āstikyam. But that is a fact. What is stated in the Vedas, they are true. We can save our time. For example, just like the cow dung. The cow dung is said in the Vedas as pure. So if we accept cow dung as pure, we don't require to make research. But actually it is pure. The other day I was passing through a cow shed in Hyderabad. So, so much cow dung stocked there. So I was asking my students, "Suppose so much human stool was stocked here. Could we pass through it?" No, it is not possible. But it was pleasant to pass through. So this is a fact. If we argue that animal stool... (aside:) Stop. Stop him. Don't make noise. ...the animal stool is impure, but when the Vedas says the animal stool of the cow is pure, so this is, this true. Similarly conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. But the bone of an animal which is conchshell, it is kept in the Deity room. So Vedic instruction is so perfect. Why this animal bone is pure, why this stool of animal is pure, that is already known. You don't require to make any research. You simply accept and get the fact. This is Vedic truth.

*So that is called āstikyam. Āstikyam means to accept the Vedic instruction as it is. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. There is no need of interpreting. If we accept it, the truth, as it is, then we are benefited. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna,..." Arjuna is called Dhanañjaya. That's a background, how he became a dhanañjaya. So mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior person than Me." So we accept that way. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not only we accept*-all the authorities, whom we accept as authority. Just like Vyāsadeva. He is the authority of the Vedas. He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nārada accepts the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Of course, that is long, long, ages ago. In the recent years, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, all of them accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So what is the difficulty for us to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? There is no difficulty. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you must present somebody else, that "Here is another person..." Then we have to compare whether Kṛṣṇa is actually Supreme Personality of Godhead or the another person. Because there is definition of God: aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47).

*So the present need of human society, because they're reducing their good qualities, satya śamo dama titikṣa ārjava... [Bg. 18.42]. And money is becoming the most powerful thing. As it is stated here: vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. Formerly, if one is qualified brāhmaṇa, he may be a poor man, but a brāhmaṇa, when approaches a king, the king will stand up and offer him... Even Kṛṣṇa, when He was King of Dvārakā, Sudāmā Vipra, His friend, he came. Immediately He stood up and gave him His own seat. So because he was a qualified brāhmaṇa... So everywhere qualified brāhmaṇa was respected by the qualified kṣatriyas, vaiśyas. But now, there is practically no qualified brāhmaṇa, neither a qualified brāhmaṇa is respected. Vittam eva. But if one has got money, then he'll be respected. This is the symptom of Kali-yuga. Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. If one has got money, Sethji, he may be not educated, without any good qualification, but somehow or other he has got money, he'll be respectful, not a qualified brāhmaṇa. Then dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi. Now justice, nyāya... Nyāya means justice, dharma and religious principle. Dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyām, to establish justice, anyone who is powerful, he will get justice. You bribe. Nowadays... Of course, we do not discuss these things. Everyone knows. Justice can be purchased in this age. Balam eva hi. Dāmpatye ratir, ratir abhirucir hetur māyaiva vyāvahārike. These are the symptoms. Dāmpatye, husband and relationship, husband and wife, means sex power. We have practically seen in the Western countries, as soon as there is some disturbance in the sex relation of husband and wife, there is divorce. So that, these are the symptoms. Strītve puṁstve ca hi ratir vipratve sūtram eva hi. So man and woman should be united in marriage relationship simply on sex urge, not on the religious principle. That we have seen. And sūtram, vipratve sūtram eva hi. And if anyone, somehow or other, gathers a sacred thread*-not sacred, even not sacred; *thread*-he becomes a vipra. Liṅgam eva āśrama-khyātāv anyonya āpatti-kāraṇam, avṛttyā nyāya-daurbhalyam. If you go to the court, court of justice, if you have no money, then you cannot get. Suppose you have to claim from somebody, say, some few thousands of rupees, first of all you have to deposit the stamp fee, five percent, and the pleader's fee. So you have to push good money after bad money. So these are the symptoms. There are many symptoms. In this way, the conclusion is... This is the description given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. There are many other symptoms. Our time is short. The king, the government, that is also stated. Government will be simply taxing. And people, being harassed in famine and taxation, they'll give up their hearth and home, will go to the forest and hills. And gradually, time will come when the ages will be reduced so much that a person twenty to thirty years old will be considered as great, grand old man. These are the symptoms of Kali-yuga.

*So how to get out of this entanglement? There are so many things prescribed. But in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said that kalau doṣa-nidhe rājan asti hy eko mahān-guṇaḥ. Doṣa-nidhi. Nidhi means ocean. This Kali-yuga is a ocean of doṣa, so many faults. But still, there is some hope.

*kalau doṣa*-nidhe rājann

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

*mukte*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

[SB 12.3.51]



*If you take to Kṛṣṇa*-kīrtana, kṛṣṇa-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, if this, you take to this principle, very simple process... That is recommended in the śāstras:



harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*Kalau, especially it is meant. Kalau. Kalau means this age of Kali. In another place: kalau saṅkīrtana*-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. So these are the... As the description here is there about the symptoms of Kali-yuga, the remedy is also suggested. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. If you begin chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then you become aloof from all these faulty situation of this Kali-yuga. And if you keep yourself aloof, then mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Then you'll, next life, you'll be promoted to the kingdom of God. Param means the spiritual world. There is another, spiritual world. This is material world. This material world, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you, perhaps you know, that paras tasmāt tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātana-dhāma [Bg. 8.20]. God is sanātana and we are sanātana. When we combine together, that is called sanātana-dharma.



*So kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta*-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. So this is the need of the human society. It is very easy, provided we want to take advantage of it. Suppose you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, as I am teaching all these boys. I am also doing that. We have got our beads for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare... Similarly, if you chant, what is the loss on your part? Is there any loss? But if there is benefit, why don't you take it? What is the harm? We are preaching this. We don't say that "You give us so much money; *I give you some mantra, and you, within six months, you become God." We don't make this, all this bluff. We simply say, request, that "God has given you this tongue..." And this is the prescription: kalau doṣa*-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān-guṇaḥ, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. When you become little advanced, you can also chant and dance, as the Gosvāmīs were accustomed to do. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. They were always... They were ministers. In Delhi, when we had our function, just like we are holding here, many, many good officers, big officers, they chanted and danced. Oh, what is the harm? We dance in the ballroom. Why not for Kṛṣṇa-kīrtana?

*So the chanting and dancing is not very difficult thing. So our only request is that you take to this chanting process. If you take to this chanting process, then gradually you'll be elevated to the spiritual life. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Chanting means the cleansing the heart. The more you chant, your heart will be cleansed. We are now, because we are in this material world, we are passing through evolution of many different species of life, and here is a chance given by the nature, the human form of body, where we can stop the continual transmigration of the soul from one body to another and we can have our permanent situation, back to home, back to Godhead. This is a great science. But if you neglect it, that is suicidal policy. Human mind, human life is especially meant for taking advantage of this form of life and understand "What is God? What I am? What is my relationship with God? How to act? Why I am conditioned by so many miserable conditions of life-birth, death, old age and disease?" So many things are there. But if we do not take to this, if we simply remain like animals, eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, then we are factually missing the opportunity. Therefore our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply to make propaganda from door to door, that "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." That's all. As Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa bolo saṅge cholo, ei mātra bhikha chāya. We simply want this. So the, there is no loss, but the gain is very great. Why not take the chance? So the present human need of the human society is take to, to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730114LE.BOM

Pandal Lecture

-

Bombay, January 14, 1973



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Before speaking on the verses already quoted by my disciples, I may be permitted to read a portion of my preface to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Those who are my, our life members, they have got the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Part One. There he will find this preface. But for general information as to the need of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I may read a portion of it.



*(reads) "We must know the present need of human society. And what is that need? Human society is no longer bounded by geographical limits." Just like we are traveling all over the world, not only once, but twice, thrice in a year. Because there is facility for traveling the airways, so it has become very easy to go from country to country. And practically, while I am in India, all my disciples are coming here from different parts of the world every morning. There are facilities now. Therefore the world is now not limited by geographical condition. Anyone can go anywhere very swiftly. You can go to London from Bombay within nine hours. So the world is not bounded any more by geographical limits to the particular countries or communities. "Human society is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state of human society." There is already the United Nations. In New York they have constructed a big organization, establishment, United Nations, but actually, when we pass through that road*-I think it is First Avenue-instead of being united, the flags of the nations are increasing. They are becoming disunited. Just like in India our independence movement was started by Mahatma Gandhiji for uniting all the different section of the people. But actually, the result was that instead of being united, India was partitioned. And the partition has become so poisonous that formerly there was only sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots in some place; now there is organized fighting between Pakistan and Hindustan. So although the tendency is to unite, but in fact it is not being united. They are becoming disunited more and more. Not only the Hindus and Muslim. Now in India there are many provincial questions. Just like in Andhra the fight is going on for separation. Punjab is already separated. So actually we are not being united. We are being separated.

*So "The ideals of human society is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state or one human society. The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, of the entire energy of living beings." This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for not only uniting the human society but also all living entities. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ.

*vidyā*-vinaya sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*When one is actually paṇḍita, learned, he becomes sama*-darśī. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne: one learned brāhmaṇa, gentle brāhmaṇa. Vidyā dadāti namratā. Education means one becomes gentle, sober, cool-headed. Therefore it is said, vidya-vinaya-sampanne. When one is learned, advanced in education, he must be very gentle, not haughty. So vidyā-vinaya-sampanne gavi hastini. And one side, the brāhmaṇa with gentle behavior, learned scholarship, and the other side, an animal, say, a cow or a dog or an elephant, and another side the caṇḍāla, the lowest of the human society. According to Vedic civilization, the dog-eaters are called caṇḍāla. Just like in Hindu society, a person is not permitted to eat cow's flesh. Even in human society, although they are eating different types of flesh, one is considered abominable than the other. The cow-eaters are taken as abominable than the goat-eaters. And the dog-eaters are accepted as abominable than the goat-eaters. So although they are eating flesh, they have got some distinction. That is material. But according to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, because a Vaiṣṇava sees every living entity, not only human being, not only animals, birds and beasts, anyone, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ... [Bg. 5.18]. If one is actually learned and advanced, he sees all living entities on the equal status because... The reason is that a learned Vaiṣṇava... Vaiṣṇava, brāhmaṇa-Vaiṣṇava, brāhmaṇa-paṇḍita, these are the designations. A brāhmaṇa cannot be illiterate or rascal. And after becoming brāhmaṇa, one has to become Vaiṣṇava. Brāhmaṇa, generally, brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. One who knows brahma, brahma-bhūtaḥ... At the present moment we are under the bodily concept of life, every one of us. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am sannyāsī," "I am brahmacārī," "I am gṛhastha..." There are so many designations. So these designations are pertaining to the body and mind. But when you transcend the bodily and the mental concept of life, then you can become Vaiṣṇava.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Mad*-bhakti. Vaiṣṇava means bhakta, devotee.



*So this Bhagavad*-gītā or Śrīmad-bhāgavatam or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for devotees. Without becoming devotee, one cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. The nondevotee... (aside:) Water. The non-devotees accept Kṛṣṇa as ordinary person. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because Kṛṣṇa comes before you as a human being, therefore because one has no sufficient knowledge about Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ, therefore such foolish persons accept Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being or a little greater than ordinary human being. But that is not the fact. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That is the verdict of Vedic instruction. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There is a list of incarnation of God in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Lord Buddha is also accepted as śaktyāveśa avatāra, especially empowered incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. Although Buddhism, we do not accept the philosophy of Buddhism, we Vaiṣṇava, we do not accept, but we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Lord Buddha appeared, being very much compassionate on the matter of animal slaughter. As nowadays animal slaughter is going on without any check, similarly, sometime before, about 2,500 years ago, in India the same condition prevailed. Vedic civilization is very liberal. According to Vedic civilization, the king has to give protection to all the prajās. Prajā means one who has taken birth in his kingdom. Prajāyate. So the animal is also prajā of the government. The trees are also prajā of the government. So formerly nobody could slaughter an animal, nobody can cut even a tree without reason, without sanction by the Vedic injunction. At the present moment in our country, this Bhāratavarṣa is called puṇya-bhūmi. Actually it is so, because on this land all the great saintly persons appeared. The incarnation of God, Lord Rāmacandra, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Buddhadeva, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu and all the big, big ācāryas-Śaṅkarācārya, Śrī Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī... So... Vyāsadeva... All of them appeared on this sacred land of Bhāratavarṣa. But the present Bhāratavarṣa has degraded so much that we have lost our Vedic culture. We are now eating meat. We are eating, drinking wine, and we are having illicit sex life and indulging in gambling. This is India's position. It is due to this Kali-yuga. Otherwise the land is puṇya-bhūmi. Because the land is puṇya-bhūmi, therefore in spite of so much fallen condition, still, you are anxious to hear about Kṛṣṇa. You ladies and gentlemen who have come here, sacrificing your time, why? Because still the Vedic culture is twinkling within your heart and you are anxious to hear about Kṛṣṇa, to hear about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Even somebody wants to cheat you, but because it is advertised in the name of Bhagavad-gītā, many people flock there.

*So Bhārata*-bhūmi is puṇya-bhūmi, the land of piety. We should understand this. After many pious activities... I have traveled all over the world. They have got enough money, enough material facilities, but still, the Vedic culture is different. It is so high. And it is taken still in estimation, in adoration, all over the world. So my request, especially to the Indians, that do not neglect your culture, the Vedic culture. Vedic culture means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other different meaning of Vedic culture. In the Bhagavad-gītā you have seen,

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam...

[Bg. 15.15]



*Kṛṣṇa is to be understood. Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. Vedic culture... All the Vedas, they are meaning how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva. Vedānta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge and anta means the end. There is... Everything has got the ultimate, the supreme summum bonum. That summum bonum of Vedic knowledge or Vedānta is Kṛṣṇa. So that Vedānta knowledge, Kṛṣṇa personified, He is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Everyone is searching after God: "Where is God. What is God? What is the meaning of God? What God does? What is the power of God?" so many things. So everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is God. Sarvasya. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said what is God. That is the first question of the Vedānta-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human life (is) especially meant for inquiring about God. Unfortunately, people, instead of inquiring God, they are very much eager now to inquire about dog. This is the position. There are big, big dog shows in India. At the present moment we have seen many places.



*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to revive the Vedic culture. And the Vedic culture, another name of Vedic culture is sanātana*-dharma. Sanātana means eternal, and dharma means characteristic. Dharma generally in English is translated: "religion." Religion means a kind of faith, "I believe in such and such faith"-"I believe in the Muhammadan faith," "I believe in Christian faith," "I believe in Buddha faith." But actually, dharma does not mean faith. Dharma means characteristic. What is that characteristic? Just like every thing, every little item has got its characteristic. Just like take for example chili, it is very hot. The more the chili is hot, it is good. But if the sugar becomes hot like chili, immediately rejected. But if the chili is hot, you accept, "It is good chili." Similarly, dharma means characteristics of the living entity. That is dharma. The living entity is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātana means eternal. God is eternal sanātana, we are eternal sanātana, and there is an eternal place also. This material world is not eternal. The characteristics of this material world is that it appears at a certain date, it continues to stay for a certain period, it develops, then it dwindles and then vanishes. Just like our body, your body, my body. It has got a date of appearance. It is growing or changing from one shape to another. It will stay for some time. From this body, some by-products will come out, sons and daughters, and then it will become old, dwindling, diminishing, and then it will vanish. One day it will come-no more this body. Similarly, this material world is also like that. It is a gigantic body only. Whole cosmic manifestation has a date of its creation. It is expanding and it is giving so many by-products. Then time will come which is called devastation-there will be no more rain and everything will dry up. All living entities will die. Then there will be devastating rainfall. Everything will be absorbed in water and then vanish. We have got this information from Vedic literature. So this is not sanātana-dhāma. This is not eternal dhāma. This is temporary. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. It comes into existence and it disappears; *therefore it is not sanātana*-dhāma.

*But there is another dhāma, sanātana, eternal. That is also, there is information in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhāva anya 'vyaktya 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. So there is sanātana-dhāma, the living entity is sanātana, and God is sanātana, Kṛṣṇa is sanātana. So these three sanātana... Just like we have our dealings. In Bombay there are so many businessmen. The place is Bombay and two parties, business parties, they are dealing. Similarly... But these are all temporary. Our staying in Bombay city is temporary. The dealing is temporary. But there is another place which is called sanātana-dhāma. That place is eternal, and the parties, namely God and the living entities, both of them eternal. Their dealing also eternal. That eternal dealing is called nitya-līlā, eternal pastimes. These descriptions are there in the Vedic saṁhitā, Brahma-saṁhitā.

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.29]



*Govinda has dealing. That dealing He represents exactly when He comes, when He appears on this planet, and that dealing is exhibited in Vṛndāvana*-dhāma. You know Vṛndāvana-dhāma. When Kṛṣṇa comes... About forty-three crores of years' interval Kṛṣṇa comes. This estimation, these things are there. Kṛṣṇa comes in one day of Brahmā. The duration of Brahmā's day you know, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. This means forty-three lakhs of years multiplied by one thousand. That is the duration of one day of Brahmā. And similarly, the duration of his night. So Kṛṣṇa comes in one day during that duration. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He comes here the same place, Vṛndāvana. Therefore Vṛndāvana is held in so much estimation by the devotees. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ. Ārādhya, worshipable Deity, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who appeared as the son of Mahārāja Nanda. Vrajeśa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. Similarly, His place Vṛndāvana is also worshipable; *therefore those who are Vaiṣṇavas, especially Gauḍīya*-Vaiṣṇava, they live in Vṛndāvana in numbers. There are hundreds and thousands of Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇava still living in Vṛndāvana because they worship the land, Vṛndāvana, as good as Kṛṣṇa because it is Kṛṣṇa's place.



*So the sanātana*-dhāma. Vṛndāvana is also part of the sanātana-dhāma. The living entity is sanātana, eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We do not die after destruction of this body. This is the preliminary instruction to understand Vedic knowledge, or spiritual knowledge. If you do not understand the plain fact that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I live within this body..." Dehino' smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehinaḥ. Dehina means the proprietor of the body. Idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya kṣetram ity abhidhiyate [Bg. 13.2]. This śarīra, this body, is called kṣetra, and the person, or the living entity, who is working on this body, he is called kṣetra-jña. Those who have read Bhagavad-gītā, they have come to this understanding of kṣetra and kṣetra-jña. Ksetre-jña means I, you. I know about my body, about the interest of my body. If somebody wants to kill me, I take protection because it is my body, kṣetra. Just like your land, if somebody comes to encroach upon it, you take care. Similarly, this body is kṣetra, the field of activities, and I or you, the proprietor of the body, is kṣetra-jña, one who knows about the body. But there is another kṣetra-jña. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ksetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Sarva-kṣetreṣu. Kṛṣṇa is also kṣetra-jña, Kṛṣṇa is also sitting... As I am sitting within this body, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also sitting within this body.

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*He is directing. Actually, under His instruction we are taking permission. Just like you do business in your business office, establishment, but you have to take permission, license from the government. It is very easy to understand. Although you are proprietor of the business, you cannot do anything without being permitted by the government. Similarly, although this body is yours*-you are the proprietor of this body, you have been given freedom to utilize the body to your best interest-still, you cannot do anything without the permission of Kṛṣṇa. That is the subject matter to understand spiritual life. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi... Kṛṣṇa confirms this in Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "I am entered in everyone's body." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "Through Me, one remembers and one forgets." Because our capacity is very limited. We forget very soon. Even we do not know two lours before what we were doing. So that is our nature. Therefore Kṛṣṇa helps us from within. Even though we forget, Kṛṣṇa does not forget. That is also there in the Bhagavad-gītā. When Arjuna asked Him, "Kṛṣṇa, You say that You gave instruction on Bhagavad-gītā long, long ago, some forty thousands of millions of years ago, to sun-god. How can I believe it, because we are contemporary?" So Kṛṣṇa answered, "Yes, at that time you were also present, but you have forgotten. I have not forgotten." That is the distinction between ordinary living being and the Supreme Being. The Supreme Being is also nitya. The Supreme Being is also conscious. As we are eternal, nitya, and conscious... That is the statement of the Vedas. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the supreme conscious. He is the supreme living being. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is person. Kṛṣṇa is not imperson. Impersonal feature is one of the partial manifestation of Kṛṣṇa. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Kṛṣṇa is the basis of Brahmā. But the original Brahmā is Kṛṣṇa, Parabrahman, as Arjuna accepted: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12].



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is India's movement because it was started from India. It is meant for everyone because every living entity is sanātana, eternal. It is not that only Indians are eternal. Everyone is eternal. Even the animals, they are also eternal. They have got different body according to their karma. Therefore paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. The paṇḍita does not see the outward dress. As if we talk with you, I do not see what kind of dress you have got, I talk with you as gentleman, similarly, a paṇḍita sees the inner soul. He does not see the outward dress, that "Here is a human being," or "Here is an American, here is an Indian, here is a brāhmaṇa," or "Here is an elephant" or "dog" or "caṇḍāla" or "tree." No. He sees only the spirit soul, the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as one sees the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately remembers Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even though he sees a tree, immediately he sees Kṛṣṇa. But as soon as sees the tree, he understands that "This tree is standing here for seven thousands of years according to his karma, but here is a living entity, and this living entity is the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." And as soon as he remembers Kṛṣṇa, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Just try to understand. Therefore a mahā-bhāgavata, advanced devotee, he sees everything, but in everything he sees Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy. That is perfection of life. That is brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20] life, realization of Brahman in everything. He understand himself, he understands others. Just like when there is sunrise... In the darkness of night I cannot see you properly, neither you can see me properly. Suppose if the streets are dark, we cannot see, even we pass very near. Similarly, in darkness of ignorance, we do not know actually what is our position. But as in the daytime, when there is sunrise, you can see the sun, you can see the world, you can see yourself, you can see your friend, you can see the whole world... Therefore we have to see Kṛṣṇa. Then this stage will come.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose, that one can see in terms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In terms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities, they are My part and parcels." In another place He says,



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*So Kṛṣṇa is the ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā. Just like the father gives the bīja, yoni... The mother is the yoni, and the father is the bīja. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. We get our body by the bīja and yoni. Similarly, this material world is the yoni, mother, and the Kṛṣṇa is the bīja. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. So in this way different forms of life are coming-8,400,000 species of life. So they are all sanātana. All these living entities are sanātana. But on account of their forgetfulness, being diverted, misled by the illusory energy, māyayā apahṛta-jñānam... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhā duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayā apahṛta-jñānam. Their jñāna, their knowledge, has been taken away by māyā; *therefore they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhā. "Because they are foolish rascal, therefore māyā has taken their knowledge, and therefore," na māṁ prapadyante, "they do not surrender unto Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's last instruction is sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].



*So we shall gradually discuss all these points. The preliminary is that at the present moment, although we are trying to be united, United Nation, united society, united religion, united... So many things we are trying to be united*-communism, united community... But this unity can be possible only when we are actually learned in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*One has to become learned. And the process of learning is not very difficult. It is very easy, especially for the men of this age. That is this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, is it very difficult for you? God has given you tongue. We are talking so many things, whole day and night. But if we utilize this tongue for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, what is the loss there? That is the injunction of the śāstras. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached this cult.



*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading this cult of Kṛṣṇa understanding... [break] ...and we have got very good scheme of communism as I have stated here in this... (reads) "The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, of the entire energy of the living beings." This is spiritual communism. The communist cult is concentrating on the state. That is also limited. Not only on the state, there are so many limitations. Actual communism is this:



*vidyā*-vinaye-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*Paṇḍitāḥ sama, when we see equally, not only the learned brāhmaṇa... The learned brāhmaṇa or the elephant or the cow or the dog or the caṇḍāla. No matter. Whatever the bodily condition is there, the spiritual condition is the same. Paṇḍitāḥ sama... This samatā, this communism, equality, is perfect. Their modern theory of communism, that "I am good, my brother is good, and all bad," this is not communism. When we are, we can see that "I am good, my brother good, the dog is good, the cat is good, the Englishman is good, the every living entity is good," that is communism. That is perfect communism. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, or the Bhāgavata-dharma, there is ideal communism. You will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Seventh Canto, Nārada Muni is giving, instructing to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira about this communism that "A gṛhastha, before taking lunch, he must see that every insect, every lizard, every cat, every rat, even a snake in that house must have been fed, must have taken their food. This is so hospitable that the householder, the owner of the house, not only sees that his wife, children, servants are well-fed, but even the rats, cats or the insect or the lizard. Or even the snake has got his food. This is the ideal of communism. Because when you are paṇḍita, learned, you cannot distinguish that "This is animal and this is human being." You can treat them different because their consciousness is... But on the basic principle the living entity-any living entity-it doesn't matter whether it is animal or man*-he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot kill one living entity for the satisfaction of the tongue of other... (end)





730130LE.CAL

Lecture at Bhārata Chamber of Commerce

"Culture and Business"

-

Calcutta, January 30, 1973



Prabhupāda:

oṁ ajñāna timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for kindly inviting me. I'll serve you to my capacity. Today's subject matter is "Culture and Business. So business, we mean business means the occupational duty. According to our Vedic culture, there are different types of businesses. As it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgasaḥ [Bg. 4.13]*-the four divisions of social system, namely the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. Before doing business, there must be a division who can do what kind of business. There are different businesses. Now we have taken that everyone should take everyone's business. That is not very scientifical division. Therefore there is cultural division. Just like the whole body. The whole body's one unit, but there are different departments also-just like the head department, the arms department, the belly department and the leg department. This is scientific. The head department is called the brāhmaṇa. In the society... And the arms department is called the kṣatriyas, and the belly department is called the vaiśyas, and the leg department is called the śūdras. This is scientific division of business. Although the head department is most important department, because without head, other departments, the arms departments, the belly department and the leg department will be finished. If the arms department is lacking, still business can go on. If the leg department is lacking, the business may go on. But if the head department is not there, if the, your head is cut off from the body, then in spite of having all these arms, legs and bellies, they all become useless. So the head department is meant for culture. Without culture... Just like without head, the arms department, the belly department, the leg department are all useless. Similarly without culture, all these businesses, they creates confusion and chaos. That is the position at the present moment, because there is intermingling of different businesses. There must be one section of people, head department, who should give advice to the other departments. The brāhmaṇas, they're intelligent. They are qualified. Satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam astikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42].



So culture means that one should know what is the aim of life. Without understanding the aim of life, a man without aim is ship without, a ship without rudder. That is an English proverb. So at the present moment, we are missing the goal of life because there is no head department. The whole human society is lacking now real brāhmaṇas who can give advice to the other departments. Just like Arjuna was fighting. He was a military man. His business was to fight. He was engaged in his business, but he was taking at the same time advice of, the advice of the Brāhmaṇa deva, Kṛṣṇa.

*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



*So the brāhmaṇa department, or the adviser department, is described in this verse: namo brahmaṇya*-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. The first thing is taken into consideration, go-brāhmaṇa. Why these two things are stressed upon? Because in a society where there is no brahminical culture and where there is no cow protection, it is not human society. So in a chaotic condition, any business you do, it will never be perfect. But in a systematized, systematic, cultural society, you do business. That is perfect. That is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, Bhāgavatam. In a meeting in Naimiṣāraṇya, where many learned scholars and brāhmaṇas assembled, and Śrīla Sūta Gosvāmī was giving instruction, he said: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. The varṇāśrama is stressed. The Vedic culture means four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Unless we take to this institution of varṇāśrama dharma, the whole society will be in chaotic condition.



And the purpose of varṇāśrama dharma is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. As it is stated in the *Viṣṇu Purāṇa*:

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



Just like in a state, you have to satisfy your government; *then you are good citizen. Similarly in the cosmic state, taking altogether this whole material creation, if you do not satisfy the Supreme Lord, the proprietor of everything, then it will be chaotic condition. Our Vedic culture means whatever you do, it doesn't matter. You must satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is culture. Sva*-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya samsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ [Bg. 18.46]. You can do any business. Any business means the brāhmaṇa's business, the kṣatriya's business, the vaiśya's business and the śūdra's business. That is business. Otherwise you can do any business. But business means there are different classes of business. So Bhagavad-gītā it is said that one should satisfy by his own business the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said: culture means... Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. The, there are different businesses according to different divisions of human society. But their aim should be svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Business means dharma. Another... Dharma means occupational duty. So svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir. One must find out the perfection of his business. That is culture. Culture and business means you may do whatever business you are doing, according to your division, or according to your capacity or according to your qualification. You may be a, a merchant, you may be a professional man, you may be legal adviser, medical man. Whatever you may, it doesn't matter. But if you want perfection in your business, then you must try to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is culture. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajñārthe karma. Yajña. Yajña means Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. For Him you have to work. Yajñārthe karma. Anyatra karma-bandhana. Otherwise you become bound up by the acts, by the reaction of your activities. Karma-bandhana. And so long you are in the bondage of karma, you have to transmigrate from one body to another.



*Unfortunately at the present moment, people do not know that there is soul and the soul transmigrates from one body to another. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Big, big professors... I've talked with big, big scientists, professors, but they do not know that there is life after death. They do not know. But according to our Vedic information, we know. And we can ex..., experience in this present life. It is very common thing. Just like a baby has got a body of a boy. The boy has got a body again of a youth, young man. The young man has got a body again of a old man. So similarly, old man, after annihilation of this body, he'll get another body. It is very, quite natural, logical. And we change our body. Although this gross body's destroyed, we change our body by the subtle body. The subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. Just like we forget about this body at night, and the subtle body works. We dream. We are taken away from our home, from our bed, to some other place, and completely forget this body. And when the sleep is over, we forget about the dream and we become attached to this gross body. This is going on*-in our daily experience. So I am the observer. I am sometimes in this gross body and sometimes in the subtle body. But it is changing. But I am the observer. Therefore the inquiry should be that "What is my position? At night I forget my gross body, and during daytime I forget my subtle body. Then what is my real body?" These are the questions.

*So this is culture. You may do your business. Just like Arjuna: Arjuna was doing his business. He was a fighter, kṣatriya, but he did not forget his culture, hearing Gītā from the master. That is culture. If you simply do business and do not cultivate your spiritual life, then it is useless waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8], the śāstra says. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being spread up that "Do not forget your cultural life." We do not say that you stop your business and become a sannyāsī like me and give up everything. We do not say. Neither Kṛṣṇa said that. Kṛṣṇa never said Arjuna that "You give up your business." "You are kṣatriya. You are declining fighting. Oh, it is very abominable. You should not say like that. You must fight." That was Kṛṣṇa's instruction. So similarly, we Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we are also advising everyone that "You do not give up your business." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said also: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said that "You give up your position." Position, giving up is not very difficult. But to cultivate spiritual knowledge, that is required. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhaḥ [1.5.18]. Now the animal life, there is no cultivation of spiritual life. That is not possible. The animal cannot cultivate this knowledge. The human beings, if they do not cultivate spiritual knowledge, they're exactly like animals. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. So we should be very conscious about our eternal existence. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. We, spirit soul, we are eternal. We are not going to die after the annihilation of this body. This is the cultivation of knowledge. This is called brahma-jijñāsā, to know about one's self. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's first disciple, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was minister, finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussein Shah, and he retired and approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And he humbly inquired that "These people call me paṇḍita." Because he was brāhmaṇa by caste. Naturally we call a brāhmaṇa "paṇḍita." So Sanātana Gosvāmī placed this: "My dear Lord, these people call me paṇḍita, but I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know who I..., what I am." So that is the position of everyone. We may be businessman. We may be in other profession. But if we do not know what I am, wherefrom I have come, why I am under the tribulation of these material laws of nature and where I am going, what is my next life-if we do not know this, then whatever we are doing, śrama eva hi kevalam. Viṣvaksena-kathāsu notpādayed ratiṁ yadi, viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8].

*So our request to everyone that you can be engaged in whatever business, in whatever position Kṛṣṇa has posted you. Do your duty nicely. But do not forget to cultivate Kṛṣṇa knowledge. Kṛṣṇa knowledge means God consciousness. God consciousness means we must know that we are part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. We are eternal part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or God, but we are struggling here, manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhāni indriyānī prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Why this struggle for existence? We must know... We have got eternal life. This temporary... Suppose in this temporary life I become Birla or some big businessman for, say, twenty years or fifty years, utmost, hundred years. Next life there is no guarantee that I'm going to be Birla or this man, Tata. No. There is no such guarantee. That we do not take care. We are taking care of the small span of life, but we are not taking care of our life eternal. That is mistake. Suppose in this life I am a very great businessman. Next life, by my karma, if I become something else... There are 8,400,000 species of life, forms of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Nine lakhs of forms of life in the water. Then there are insects. Sthāvarā lakṣa... There are trees, plants, two million forms of trees and plants. Kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Eleven lakhs' species of insects, reptiles. Then birds. Pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. In this way, we fulfill eight millions of different forms of life. Then we come to the form of human life. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma [SB 7.6.1]. This mānuṣaṁ janma is very, very rare. We should not be satisfied only becoming a very big businessman. We must know what is next life, what I am going to be.

*So there are different kinds of men. Some of them are called the karmīs, and some of them are called the jñānīs, and some of them are called the yogis, and some of them are called the bhaktas. The karmīs, they are after material happiness. In this life, also, they want the highest, the best comfort of material life, and after death also they want to be elevated to the heavenly planets. Similarly jñānīs, they also want, they being fed up of this material way of life, they want to, they want to merge into the existence of Brahman. That is jñānī. The yogis, they also want mystic power. And the bhaktas, they want simply service of the Lord. So unless one understands what is Lord, how he can render service to the Lord? This culture is the highest culture. The karmīs' culture, the jñānīs' culture, the yogis' culture and the bhaktas' culture*-there are different cultures. So all of them are called yogis if they are doing sincerely their duty. Karma-yogī, jñāna-yogī, dhyāna-yogī, bhakta-yogī. But Kṛṣṇa says,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He's first*-class yogi. Who is that man? Now, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata āntarātmanā: "Who is always thinking of Me." That means Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says, "Who is always thinking of Me." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. There are different yogis-karma-yogī, jñāna-yogī, dhyāna-yogī. But the best yogi is he who's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within himself. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatena-antarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām. Śraddhāvān. With faith and love, one who is giving rendering service to the Lord, he's first-class yogi.



*There are other verses in the Bhagavad*-gītā. [break] ...of cousin-brothers, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas. They met there for fighting. That's a historical fact, Mahābhārata, Greater India. Mahabhārata means Greater, History of Greater India. So everything is there. But we do not take advantage of this great book of knowledge. So we request that everyone should cultivate... Should try to know what he is, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is their relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and what is their real life, what is the goal of life. Unless we do cultivate all this knowledge, then it is simply we are wasting our time, this valuable life of human form of life. It is very, very valuable. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad api adhruvam arthadam. Although everybody will die, that's a fact, but one who dies after knowing all these things, he is benefited. His life is successful. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is wanted. Everyone... The cat will die, dogs will die, everyone will die. That's a fact. But one who dies knowing Kṛṣṇa, oh, that is successful death. Because Kṛṣṇa says,

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



This is success.



*So our only request is, wherever we go all over the world, we request only that "You try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful." It doesn't matter what you do. We have to do something. Kṛṣṇa says, śarīra*-yātrāpi te prasiddhyet akarmaṇaḥ. If you stop working, your living condition will be hampered. That is not the question. Everyone has to do his duty. Arjuna also did his duty. He was kṣatriya. His business was to acquire kingdom. Because the kṣatriyas, they cannot beg. They must have some land. Their business is to levy tax. That is enjoined in the śāstras. Brāhmaṇas, they should live by paṭhana pāṭhana yajana yājana. Kṣatriyas should live by giving protection to the people. Vaiśyas should live by trade, agriculture, protection of cows. And the śūdras should live under the protection of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūd..., three higher castes. This is the injunction. So one has to do something for his livelihood, but, at the same time, he has to cultivate knowledge for his perfection of life. So this is perfection of life, simple thing. Simple thing we are prescribing all over the world. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simple. And it is not very difficult. You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is explaining everything. If the neophytes, one who cannot, cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is prescribing like this: raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: [Bg. 7.8] "My dear Kaunteya, I am the taste of the water." So there is no need of saying that "I cannot see God. I have not seen God." Here is God. The taste of water is God. Everyone is drinking water. And who is not tasting it? He's seeing God. Why do you say that "I do not see God"? You see, as it is directed by God. Then gradually you'll see Him. If you simply remember this instruction, this one instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ, "I am the taste of water. I am the shining illumination of sun and moon..." Who has not seen the sunlight? Who has not seen the moonlight? Who has not tasted water? Then why do you say, "I have not seen God"? If you simply practice this bhakti-yoga, as soon as you drink water and taste and be satisfied, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." So immediately you remember Kṛṣṇa. As soon as you see sunshine, you remember, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." As soon as you see moonshine, you remember, "Eh, here is..." As soon as you see something wonderful, pauruṣaṁ nṛṣu śabdaḥ khe, as soon as you hear in the sky some sound, so if you remember, "Here is Kṛṣṇa," that means you are remembering Kṛṣṇa in every step of your life. And if you're remembering Kṛṣṇa in every step of life, then you become the topmost yogi. Because Kṛṣṇa says,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate...

[Bg. 6.47]



*Mad*-gata āntarātmanā. If you feel Kṛṣṇa in every step of life... It is not very difficult. And, above that, if you practice the chanting-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare... There is no tax. Your..., there is no loss of your business. You are all businessmen. But if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if you remember Kṛṣṇa while drinking water, what is your loss? Why don't you try it? This is cultivation of knowledge, if you cultivate this knowledge, at the same time go on doing your business, your life will be successful.



Thank you very much. (applause) [break]



Guest (1): How we can come over the ego?



*Prabhupāda: You cannot come over. Now you are in false ego. You have to come to the real ego. Now you are thinking, "I am Indian. I am Hindu. I am businessman." These are all false ego. When you come to your real ego, that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is your real... Ego, you cannot give up. But this is your false ego. You have to give up your false ego, come to the real ego. That's... Purify your ego. That is required. [break] ...dhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Upādhi. At the present moment, I am thinking like that. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I am black," "I am white"-these are the egoism of this body. But I'm not this body. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So when you come to that stage... Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When you come to your real ego, then you become happy. And because you are in false ego, you are unhappy. So ego cannot be changed. Because you are eternal, how you can be, ego can be changed? Just like people say, "Give up desires." How can you desire..., give up desires of a living entity? That is not possible. But I have to purify my desires. That is wanted. Just like if you have got some disease. So if you, some, the physician, they say "Pluck out your eyes," that is not good treatment. But you treat the eyes nicely and the sight may be good. That is wanted. So this bhakti-mārga means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. That is bhakti-mārga. You have to give up your false ego. Sarva upādhi. This is upādhi: "I am this, I am that, and..." This upādhi has created trouble in the world. So we have to come to the real ego. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is mukti. Mukti hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Now hitvā anyathā rūpam. My ego is going on in a different way. Unnecessarily I am spoiling my life with these designations. But we have to come to the point of our real identity. So nothing can be given up. As living entity, I must be egoistic. Law of identity. How can I say that "I am not"? I am. I am existing. But now I am existing with designations. If I give up my designations, if I become purified, that is my real ego. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. One has to become nirmala. And when you become nirmala... Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. That is bhakti. So your senses are there. Now with my senses I am thinking that "I am the head of this familyman," "I am head of this community," or "I am..., I have to serve. I have to engage my hand in this way, my eyes in this way, my nose in this way." Senses are engaged in a upādhi, designated. But when this is, designation is taken away, when you become nirmala, the senses remain, the dress of the senses taken away, at that time, your senses are engaged in the service of the Lord, and that is called bhakti.



Bhavānanda: Are there are any other questions? [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...service to the humanity. Now you are thinking service to the humanity means a section of humanity. And why should you stick your service to the humanity? When one is serving his own countrymen, Indian, he does not care for the Englishman. So don't speak of humanity. Nobody can serve the whole humanity in the present way. But if you spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the best service to the humanity. Just like we are doing. We have no discrimination, that "These are Indians. These are Americans. They are Hindus. They are Muslims. They are Christians." No. Or "They're cats or dogs." That oneness you can see only when you are Brahman*-realized. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Why humanity? Why not the cats and dogs and cows? You are very much anxious to give service to the humanity, but you are sending animals to the slaughterhouse. Why? (indistinct) the lack of knowledge. You do not (indistinct) is part and parcel of God. You cannot select this part and... Therefore the śāstra says, yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ [SB 4.31.14]. Just like by watering the root, you can water automatically the branches, the trunks, the twigs, the flowers, the fruits, the leaves-everything is watered. Sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā. Or by supplying foodstuff to the stomach, you serve all the senses of the body perfectly. Similarly, when you begin to serve Kṛṣṇa, then not only to the human society, to the animal society, to the tree society. Every society will be served. That is perfect service. And if you simply limit your service, that is, may be good, but that is not good. According to śāstra... Just like you simply water the leaves, the leaves will not live. They'll dry. But if you supply water to the root, everything will be protected. So actual service will begin when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54], samaḥ sarve... That is samaḥ sarveṣu. And so long you limit, that is limited service. That is not perfect service.



Guest (1): (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: [break] ...immoral(?) generation means godlessness. It is said in the śāstra, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ guṇaiḥ tatra samāsate surāḥ. If you have unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then all the good qualities of demigods will develop unto you. It is not story. It is fact. Just like these European and American students. They, in their previous life, before becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to our standard, they were all immoral. Our, in India, illicit sex life still, it is admitted, if it is not followed, to have sex relation with other's wife or other woman except one's wife, that is called immoral or sinful. So in Western countries these things are not immoral or sinful. It is very daily affair. But now, because they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have given up all these things. No illicit sex life. Unless one is married, he must remain brahmacārī or vānaprastha or sannyāsī. Only gṛhastha, duly married wife, he can have sex. This is morality. And you should not kill the animals unnecessarily. That is immoral. You are already intoxicated by the influence of māyā. You should not be more intoxicated. This is immoral. You should not indulge in gambling. These are immoral. So as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all these immoralities vanish immediately. That is the only. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā, sarvaiḥ guṇaiḥ tatra samāsate su..., harāv abhaktsya kuto mahad*-guṇā. One who is not Kṛṣṇa..., he cannot have any good quality or any morality. That is the decision of the śāstra. So if you want to revive the morality of the society, you must take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then everything will come.



Guest (1): Sir, this..., why we did not have a world with universal brotherhood, universal love?



Prabhupāda: Because you don't want it. Because you don't want it. You do not want. That, that, that is explained in the previous verse, that Kṛṣṇa says,



*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi...

[Bg. 18.66]



*These miserable conditions are there because we are all sinful. So Kṛṣṇa gives protection that "You surrender unto Me, and I give you protection from the reaction of all sinful life." So who wants Kṛṣṇa? You do not want. Kṛṣṇa says, canvassing, but who is accepting? Then how you can get, I mean to say, liberty or liberation from these sinful activities? Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo. People suffer on account of sinful activities. There are two things, pāpa and puṇya. So if you follow the path of pāpa, then you must suffer. Just like state laws. If you become criminal, you must suffer. You must go to the prison house. You, you cannot argue that "Why government has created the prison house? Why?" Can you argue like that? Yes, there is necessity. The government knows that there will be some rascals who will commit criminal activities; *therefore there must be prison house. So this material world is prison house. Every one of us, we are member of the prison house*-first class, second class, third class. Just like in the prison house there are different classes. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. You cannot expect treatment in the prison house just like son-in-law. No. That is not possible. You must suffer. Otherwise, what is the meaning of prison house? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, although Kṛṣṇa has created this world, He says this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, this is the place of misery. And aśāśvatam. You cannot make any arrangement. "All right, Sir, let it be duḥkhālayam. Let me remain here." No. That also you cannot remain. You'll be kicked out. This is the place like that. But Kṛṣṇa gives you the idea how you can be happy, how you can get out of this. He says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti [Bg. 8.15].



janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

[Bg. 4.9]



*Kṛṣṇa is canvassing you that "You try to understand Me. Come back." But you do not want it. So how Kṛṣṇa can save you? You have got the independence. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "Now I (have) explained to you everything. Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Now, whatever you like, you do." So we have got that little independence because we are part and parcel of God. God has got supreme independence and we, being part and parcel... Just like you are all big businessmen. You have got supreme independence in business. Similarly, your sons, they have got also some independence, although subjected. Similarly, we, being part and parcel of God, sons of God, we have got little independence. If we misuse that independence, then we become subjected to all these tribulations. But if we do not misuse... As Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. So it is up to you. If you want to remain in this world of duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15], you can do so. But if you want to get out of it, you can do so. That is up to you. It is not Kṛṣṇa's fault. Kṛṣṇa has given you liberty, little independence, whatever. Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. He's given you chance. You want to do this-"All right, do it." You want to do this? "Do this." He's giving you chance. There is a verse, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. He's situated in everyone's heart. He's understanding what you want, and He's giving you all chance: "All right, have it. Enjoy it." But His instruction is that "This will not make you happy." Sarva*-dharmān parityaja mam ekam. You do not do it. You must suffer. That is not Kṛṣṇa's fault. That is your fault.



Guest (1): A small thing. Will Your Reverence have... [break]



Prabhupāda: So you have no right to do so.



Guest (1): Say instead of Hare Rāma Hare Rāma, we say Visva ramane rahim, or something like that, will you have no objection to that?



Prabhupāda: No objection.



Guest (1): And will you say...



Prabhupāda: But that is no objection.



Guest (1): ...that efficacy will be the same?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If Bismillah means Hare Kṛṣṇa... It is a question of language. So if meaning the same thing, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hare Kṛṣṇa means we are addressing the Supreme Lord and His energy. Hara means the energy of the Supreme Lord, and Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Lord. So we are addressing, "My dear Lord, my dear the energy of Lord..." Because Lord and His energy, they are, they are always existing. Just like sun and the sunshine, they're always existing. Sunshine is the energy, but sun is the energetic. Similarly, the Lord is there and His energy's also there. So we are praying both to the energy and to the Lord: "Please engage me in Your service. I am serving māyā. I am not happy. Therefore, please engage me in Your..." My, my constitutional position is to serve. Just like you're all sitting here. Every one of you are servant. If you consider that you are master, that is a mistake. That is māyā. Every one of you are servant. So "I am serving, but now I am serving māyā. I'm not happy. Let me serve You." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. So if it means that, there is no objection. It is a question of language. It does mean (indistinct). Of course, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija*-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the, the person whose name we chant, holy name, in each, in each holy Allah, or something like that, that is not objected if it is actually meaning the Supreme. If it is meaning something else, that is another thing. This question... Just like water or jala. It (is) the same thing. It is simply a different name. If I ask water, you'll give me the water actually, and if I say, jala, you'll give me the same. So if the meaning is all right, then there is no objection. If the meaning is different, then there is objection. We are not fighting with the language. We are not concerned with the language.



Guest (2): Why God created sinful activities?



Prabhupāda: You have created. God has not created. You have created. Yes.



Guest (1): In what respect?



Prabhupāda: You have created.



Guest (1): In what respect I have created?



Prabhupāda: You want to kill animals. God does not say that "You kill animals." So you have created sinful activities.



Guest (1): I am a part and parcel of the almighty God.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (1): So when animals are butchered, why the butcher does not get pain?



Prabhupāda: Butcher does not get pain? Do you know that? There is a Sanskrit verse that vyādha mā jīva, mā mara: "My dear butcher, you don't live, don't die." Do you think this butcher, that butchering work is very palatable work? Can you see it, before you, a man is killed, an animal is killed? So he has become accustomed. It pains him. But that work is so abominable that he should not live for executing that work. But what is the benefit of dying? Because after death, he will be butchered. Therefore the śāstra says, mā jīva mā mara: "Don't live, don't die." Yes.



*Indian man: There is some difference. When we do some good, we consider it as God*-inspired, but when we do something bad, then we can't say that it is also God-inspired after we have done it?



Prabhupāda: I do not follow what he says.



Guest (2): He says that the inspiration comes from the God for the all works.



*Prabhupāda: God inspiration comes for every work. That's a fact. But we deny... Just like... You take this simple exam, example. Just like a thief. From within, he's forbidden: "Don't commit theft." But he does it. He does it. You have got all experience about these things. God says from within, "Don't do it," but we do it. That is the defect of without being Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a thief. He knows that for his criminal activities he'll be punished. He has seen it, that a thief is arrested and he's taken to the prison house. And he has heard from the śāstra and from lawbooks that committing theft is not good. Why does he commit it? He knows and he has seen it. Why does he do it? Can you answer? He knows that it is not good, and he has heard it from śāstra and from learned lawyers. But why does he do it? This is the influence of nature. As he associated with the nature, ignorance, dark ignorance. He cannot check it. Therefore the best service to humanity is to give him knowledge. Because everyone is in ignorance. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāta yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Everyone is being defeated out of this ignorance. Therefore one should come to the platform of inquiring about the self. That is the best service, athāto brahma jijñāsā, To revive, invoke people to inquire about Brahman, and that will solve all the questions.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730129LE.CAL

University Lecture

-

Calcutta, January 29, 1973



*Prabhupāda: Śrī Gosvāmīpāda, Mr. Mohinath(?), Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly inviting me in this meeting to serve you to some extent according to my capacity. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new movement, started by me, but this movement was started by Kṛṣṇa Himself, five thousand years ago. I need not explain about this movement. Kṛṣṇa, in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, instructed Arjuna the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The, in the Ninth Chapter it is said, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "Always think of Kṛṣṇa," man-manā. Bhava mad-bhakto: "Just to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." And māṁ namaskuru: "Offer obeisances unto Me." Kṛṣṇa instructed, mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Kṛṣṇa instructed that He's the Supreme Personality. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Kṛṣṇa instructed to surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this instruction of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the order of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne.



Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī said:

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*When people understood Kṛṣṇa wrongly... Sometimes big scholars say "Sophistry," that "Kṛṣṇa wants full surrender." Others, they say, "Why you should fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa? We have got our own gods." Therefore Kṛṣṇa again came. As Gosvāmī Prabhupāda said: rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya vikṛtir, śrī caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam avyayam. Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, combined together, advented as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu to distribute Kṛṣṇa-prema. Because the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is to teach people how to develop love for Kṛṣṇa. As it is quoted by Gosvāmī Prabhupāda from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*Actually that is first*-class religion. We do not say that Vedic religion is first-class or Christian religion is last-class. We do not say that. We say that religious system is first class which teaches the followers how to become lover of God. That is first-class religion. Ahaituky apratihatā: without any cause, and without being impeded. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is like that, which is explained by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura: premā pumartho mahān ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam.



So we are preaching this philosophy to the Western countries by the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He desired,

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe more nāma



That is His prediction. It is nothing wonderful that we are doing. Simply we are trying to fulfill the prediction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. But another order is there by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu that,



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' karo paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*So that is lamentable. Now Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is being spread all over the world, but our Indian brothers are not joining it, although it is the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra. He requested to the humankind who has taken birth in this land, in this puṇya-bhūmi, Bhāratavarṣa. Not to the cats and dogs, but to the human beings. That time has come now. If you want to prove that you are actually human being in this land, then you must take seriously the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and spread all over the world. That is the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And it is not very difficult. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,



āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra sarva deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



To become guru, or spiritual master, is not very difficult task. Simply you have to follow the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as he said. He accepted Kṛṣṇa: the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa tanayoḥ. We have to simply preach that "You are searching after God, you great scientists, theologists, theosophists, mental speculators. You are searching after God, the Absolute Truth. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So our task is very easy. Everything is there. Our Vedic literature is so full, so treasure of knowledge, great treasure of knowledge, we haven't got to make research, search out where is the truth. Truth is there and is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. Why don't you take it? The whole world is suffering for want of this knowledge. Before me, many swamis went in the Western countries, but they did not give the actual pure Vedic culture. They invented their own ways. Therefore it was not very fruitive. It was not very satisfactory. People did not accept. Still there are so many yogis, the so-called yogis, are going there, exploiting the people, and coming back. But our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is taken very seriously in the Western countries. We have got now hundred and two branches all over the world. Only in America, we have got fifty branches. And other countries they have got fifty-two branches*-in America, in Canada, in England, in France, in Germany, in Switzerland, in Japan, in Australia, in New Zealand. All over the world. So now we want some of the young men to come forward to become really brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇavas. Our Vedic culture is divided into four varṇas: brāhmaṇa kṣatriya vaiśya śūdra. Unfortunately we are simply manufacturing śūdras, not brāhmaṇas. That is the defect of modern education. Śūdra, śūdra means paricaryātmakam kāryaṁ śūdra karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. After education, every (indistinct) is hankering after a service. That is śūdra karma svabhāva-jam. This is not perfect education. There must be brāhmaṇas who are independent. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, whose name is still, still celebrated, he was prime minister of Mahārāja Candragupta, but he was not accepting a single paisa as salary. That was the, formerly, although there was monarchy, still there was a council of learned brāhmaṇas and sages. They used to advise the king. The brāhmaṇas did not take part in politics, but they gave advice, instruction to the kings, rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ. The rājarṣi used to understand what is the values of life under the instruction of brāhmaṇas, and they execute the order of the brāhmaṇas. The people were happy. And because at the present moment such system is lost, people are confused and they are in frustration.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is all*-embracing. It can solve all the problems of the world-political, social, economical, religious, everything. It is all-embracing. So my request is that I am working now with my American disciples and European disciples. Why not Indians? I think in this meeting there are many young men, educated, learned scholars. Join this movement and, according to the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' karo paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



This is the time to do welfare activities for the whole world. They are merged into confusion, everywhere. You know that in the Western countries, the hippy movements. What are the hippies? They're also educated, coming from very rich family also, but they do not like the way of envelopment as their fathers and grandfathers liked. They have rejected. So this is the golden opportunity to preach the Kṛṣṇa cult all over the world. You are lamenting because a few yards of land has been taken away from your country as Pakistan, but if you spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the whole world will become Hindustan. There is such potency; I give you my direct perception. People are hankering after it. So long I am in India, practically I am wasting my time. Outside India, this reception is taken so seriously that every part of my moment is properly utilized.



*So I have come to this university with a hope that some of you become really brāhmaṇa. The Sanskrit department is meant for brāhmaṇas. Paṭhan pāṭhan yajana yājana dāna pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa is called paṇḍita. Why? Because a brāhmaṇa must be learned. Brāhmaṇa is not called a fool. So this department, Sanskrit department, is meant for the brāhmaṇas. So I wish that some of you must join this movement, go to the foreign countries, preach this sublime cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. There is great need. We have, of course, established so many temples, but still we require to establish temples, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temples, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's temple, in every village, every town of the world. Now from each and every of our centers, we are sending devotees in buses. They are going interior, into the villages of Europe and America, and they are very much well received. England especially, they are going village to village. They are very much well received. This cult is so nice. Even Christian priests, they are surprised. They are surprised. One of the priest in Boston, he issued pamphlet that "These boys, they're our boys, from Christian and Jews. Before this movement, they did not care to come to the churches even. Now they are mad after God." They are admitting. The Christian priestly class, they are not against us. Those who are saner class, they're admitting that "Swamijī's giving something tangible." Their fathers and forefathers come to me. They bow down. They say, "Swamijī, it is a great fortune for us that you have come to our country." So I am alone working, and the movement is being appreciated. And if persons, scholars from this University come forward and teaches this movement, it is meant for that. Brāhmaṇa's business is that, preaching. Brahmā jānāti. One must know Brahman, and distribute the knowledge of brahma-jñāna. That is the business of brāhmaṇas.

*So I wanted to recite some stanzas from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, but there is no very much time. Long, long years ago, the father of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, so he instructed: nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhati viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Here is the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhati viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This human form of life, ayam deha... Ayam deha nṛloke: "in the human society." This is not meant for working very hard like the dogs and hogs. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhati viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. Simply by working hard, day and night, for sense gratification, this is done by the dogs and hogs. This is not meant for the human society. But, but at the present moment, people are being instructed in such a way... I've seen so many-especially in Calcutta-so many educated boys and girls, they are hankering after service. Day and night they are working. This is not the effect of education. The effect of education should be peaceful mind, peaceful living. That is the duty of the parents, of the guardians, of the government. When there is monarchical government... We see from the reign of Prthu Mahārāja. He was seeing that every brāhmaṇa is engaged in his occupational duty, every kṣatriya is employed, is engaged in occupational duty. Similarly vaiśya. There was no question of unemployment. That is the first duty of the government to see. Neither there is division of the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśya, śūdra, although it is made by Kṛṣṇa Himself: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. There have been so many anomalies in the society for want of this Vedic culture. Now here is the opportunity. People are accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very nicely. You can introduce this Vedic culture throughout the whole world. They're receiving.

*So the human form of life is especially meant for tapasya. Tapo divyam. Here it is said: tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. We are hankering after happiness, but happiness cannot be enjoyed so long our existence is not purified. So for purification of our existence we have to undergo tapasya. So we are introducing this tapasya in nutshell. We are asking our students four principles, four regulative principles. No illicit sex life. Beyond marriage life, there is no sex. No intoxication, up to smoking and drinking tea. No meat-eating. No eggs, no fish. And no gambling. We are... And chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. These five principles we are teaching. These four regulative principles, refraining from sinful activities. These are the basic pillars of sinful activities: illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. That is... We get from the śāstra. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he enunciated that Kali Yuga. He was... He ordered Kali Yuga, Kali, to live in these places. When he was ordered to go out of his kingdom, he said, "My dear Lord, everywhere is your kingdom. Where shall I live?" So he ordered him that "You live in these places, striyaḥ sūnā pānaṁ dyūtaṁ yatra pāpaś catur-vidhaḥ."

*So if we want to elevate the social condition, we shall teach people to become purified. Without being purified, simply so*-called performance of religious system will not help. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. We should teach people how to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the injunction given by Sūta Gosvāmī in Naimiṣāraṇya, the assembly of great brāhmaṇas, learned brāhmaṇas.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhir hari*-toṣaṇam

[SB 1.2.13]



*This is the philosophy. So we are teaching this philosophy all over the world. They are being accepted. But I am doing it single*-handed. But if some of you come and join us, it will be increased, and people will be very, very happy.



*Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] That is my reply. Otherwise, I have not come to teach you something invented by me. I have come to teach you about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you are not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you must be amongst these four classes of men: duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā. This is my first reply. So far economic condition is concerned, then I may say, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. God supplies you everything. God is supplying food to the elephant who is eating at a time forty kilos of food, and He's supplying to the ants also. So your anxiety for food, that is not humanly. Even the cats and dogs, they are not anxious for their food. Even the birds, they rise early in the morning, they are also not anxious for the food. God has arranged for food, everyone. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. As you do not try for getting distress, it comes upon you according to your karma, similarly the so-called happiness also will come upon you without any endeavor. But because you have no faith in God, you are thinking that you will die out of hunger. That is not the position. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateto kovido. Our only business is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other problem in human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the human life. But you have been deviated from that high standard of life. You are now questioning in this way. That is my reply. Thank you very much. (end)



730131LE.CAL

*Lecture at Indo*-American Society

"East and West"

-

Calcutta, January 31, 1973



(Tape begins with long introduction given by Indian dignitary, omitted here.)

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Mister Allen, ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly inviting me to speak something about East and West. Of course, I have got considerable experience now because I am wandering East and West, not only once, at least twice, thrice in a year. So far Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is concerned, we have no such thing, East and West. Just like the sun rises from the Eastern horizon and sets on the Western horizon, but the sun is the same. You cannot say that Eastern sun and the Western sun. That is not possible. The planet, this Earthly planet is moving and we are considering that the sun is moving from East and West. The sun, sun is in his position. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has no such distinction between East and West. If there is such distinction, it is due to lack of knowledge.



*Why this lack of knowledge? Because we are under bodily concept of life. According to Kṛṣṇa culture, anyone who is going on under the bodily concept of life, he is not considered as a human being. It is said in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat tīrtha*-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go*-kharaḥ. Go means cow. And kharaḥ means ass. Any person who is accepting this body as himself... Just like generally we say: "What you are?" "I am Mister Such and Such. I am American" or "I am an Indian" or "African." This bodily designation, if I identify my self with this body, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu. Kuṇape means bag. This is a bag. This body is a bag of bones, flesh, urine, blood, and so many other things. You cannot manufacture a living entity by combination of bones, flesh, blood, urine and stool. That is not possible. You are great scientist. You are going to the Moon planet, but if I give you some ingredients like these bones, flesh, stool, urine, can you manufacture a human being? Can you? Can anyone? Is there any scientist in the world who can manufacture a human being by combination of bones, flesh, blood, urine, stool? No. If it is not possible to manufacture, how you are identifying with this body? "I am this body." Do you mean combination of bones and flesh can create such intelligent man?



*Just like in your country, George Washington. Many scientists. In our country also, many big leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and others. Do you think that these men are combination of bag, combination*-bag of bones and flesh and urine? Therefore, the śāstra says: yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Tri-dhātuke. This body is made of three elements, according to Ayur Vedic system, kapha pitta vāyu. Mucus, bile and air. So actually, the combination of this body is like that. As soon as the spirit soul goes out of this body, it is nothing but bones, flesh and urine and stool and it has to be thrown away. In every society, as soon as the man is dead... So, while he was living, he was acting so nicely, so intelligently. Now as soon as the soul is gone, immediately everything is gone. So do you think it is a combination of bones and flesh? Any sane man will accept it? If you say that something is wanting for giving impetus of birth of life in this body, therefore the body's called dead, that is not a fact. Because after this body's dead, after the soul is gone out of the body, innumerable microbes will come out, decomposition. You cannot say the ingredients which give impetus to generation of life, that is lacking. It is not lacking. Because it is not lacking, therefore millions of other microbes are coming out. That is not a fact, that this is the ingredient of life substance. There are so many arguments.

So if there is any difference of East and West, this difference. (In) the Eastern part of the world, especially India, the people know that "I am not this body." And the Western part of the world, they do not know that "I am not this body." That is the difference. That is the difference. That is the distinction between East and West. In India, go to a village and you ask him that "What you are?" He will say: "Sir, I am suffering or enjoying according to my past karma." Means: "I was living in the past. So according to my action, I am suffering or enjoying the reaction in this life." He believes in the transmigration of the soul. He believes in the future life also. He is very cautious to commit sin because he knows that "If I commit sin in this life, I'll have to suffer next life." This is Eastern life. And in the Western country, I talked with so many big, big professors, especially in Moscow. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. He said: "Swamijī, after death, then everything finished. After death, everything finished." This is the difference, East and West. In the Eastern country, especially in India, a common man will understand the existence of soul. And in the Western countries, a topmost man, professor, he does not know what is soul. That is the difference.

*Otherwise, so far your eating is concerned, it is same, either in Eastern country or Western country. You eat something on plate, or they also eat something. You sleep in nice apartment. They also sleep in something like that. You try to defend with your atomic weapons. They also try to defend. You also, after sex, the East and Western, they are also after sex. Not only Eastern and Western, the animals, they are also after these things. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etad paśubhiḥ narāṇām. Eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. This is common to the animal and to the human being. You may improve the cooking process or eating process but, after all, it is eating. Eating is meant for maintaining your body. That is done by the animals also. These things are not cultural advancement. Real cultural advancement is to know that "I am not this body." "I am spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is the difference.

*So this education is in India. This Bhagavad*-gītā. The beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



This is Eastern gift. So I have gone to the Western countries to give this Eastern gift. And it is being accepted by your children. All these American, European boys, they're accepting it. Not only hundreds, but thousands. People say that "Swamijī, you are doing wonderful." I say I am not doing wonderful. I do not know any magic. I have no mystic power. But I am presenting actually the Eastern culture to the West. That's all. It is not unreasonable. Any child can understand that there is soul. One doctor in Canada Montreal I think... What is the name of that medical prac...?



Devotee: Bigelow.



Another devotee: Bigelow.



Prabhupāda: So he is he's now speaking that there is soul. He's a cardiologist.



Devotee: Doctor Bigelow.



Prabhupāda: Eh? Tell him, that man.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doctor Bigelow.



*Prabhupāda: So I had some correspondence with him, and he admitted: "Swamijī, your people know much about these things than we know." So there is no question of you and me. It is simply education. Just like these boys. Four or fives year, ago, they did not know anything about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But because they have been educated with this Bhagavad*-gītā, they are also following me. And they are very sound in their conviction in this Western, Eastern culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course from my part of view, I do not think there is any East and West. Any knowledge is meant for the whole world. Any scientific knowledge. Just like Professor Einstein, if he discovered the law of relativity, it is not for the Western people. It is for the Eastern people also. So there is no such question. When there is culture, when there is knowledge, there is no question of Eastern and Western. But the difference is the Eastern people may know something very nicely and the Western people may take some time. Similarly, Western people may know something very nicely, the Eastern people may take little time. Just like for technology, they go to Western countries to learn how machine works. So they also learn it. In Eastern..., in India, they're also learning. So now the time is ripe that we should not think in terms of Eastern and Western. We should be hankering after real knowledge. That is wanted. That is the point of unity.



*Now for lack of knowledge, the United Nations, they're also, the Eastern and Western people have gone to make a solution of the world problems. But they're unable. My next headquarter is New York. I go on the First Avenue. Most occasionally I see there is the United Nations Building. But instead of diminishing the flag, they're increasing. They're increasing. I do not know what is the meaning of this United Nations. Why? Big, big brain, big, big politicians, big, big learned scholars, and they are speaking. But why the nations are not united? It is is, it is simply a show only. Because lack of knowledge. It is due to lack of knowledge. What is that lack of knowledge? Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Everyone is thinking: "I am this body." They have gone to unite together. But their basic principle of knowledge is the same, that "I am this body." American, he's thinking: "I am this body. American." Russian, he's thinking: "I am this body, Russian." And they are fighting. Why the fighting? Due to this body. But if we understand this very simple thing, that I am not this body, everything is united. So the lack of knowledge is there. How we'll be united, culturally or this way? It is not possible. The first lack of knowledge must be eradicated, that why you, why we are missing the point? This is the point.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



Asmin dehe, in this body, there is the proprietor of the body. That is soul. Asmin dehe, on this body, there is the proprietor of the body. this proprietor of the body constantly changing different types of bodies. The example is given that kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Just like a child is changing his body to boyhood, the boy is changing his body to youthhood, and young man is changing, his body to old body. Similarly when the old man dies, he does not die. He accepts another body. This knowledge. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. One who's actually in knowledge, he's not surprised that a man is dead. He's not dead. And the example is given just you change your dress. Now some of you are present here with a coat, black color. You can change it tomorrow into white color. That does not make any difference, that you are dead. Similarly, when we change our body. Just like I was a baby. Everyone knows. I, I remember that I had a little body. I remember at least. But that body is missing now. I remember that I was young man. I had a very youthful body. But that is missing now. And my elderly person, he may also, he may also know that he has changed his body, but he's not dead. I know that I have changed my body. I have simply changed my body, but I am living. I remember the body. Similarly, when we change our body, it does not mean that I am dead. Tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.



*And further explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The living entity, after the annihilation of this body, does not die. How it transmigrates? How the living entity transmigrates from one body to another? By the subtle body. There is a subtle body. This is gross body. The subtle body works when you are asleep. We go outside my bedroom and we see so many things, we work in so many ways. That is subtle body. So after the destruction of this gross body, this subtle body carries me to another gross body. It is a great science. Great science. That is explained very nicely in the Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literatures. So why the scientists of the Western country do not take this matter seriously? I was invited to speak in Boston, the Massachusetts Technical Institute. So I first inquired all the students: "Where is your technological department, when the body stops, you can again give him vitality and he may work? Where is that technology?" So the students liked it. And we had very nice discussion. So we are very much advanced in technology. But we do not know what is the technology of the soul transmigrating from one body to another. That is ignorance. That is ignorance.

*And this ignorance prevails in animals also. The animals do not know. Because they are not advanced in knowledge. But they have got also soul. Their soul is evolving or transmigrating from one body to another. There is a system. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa viṁśati. From the aquatics. Because the whole world was merged into water, devastation. Therefore the beginning of living entities, (is) the aquatics. From the aquatics, they come to the plants, trees. Then from plants, trees, to insect. From insect to birds. Then bird to beast. From beast to human being. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu. They're all mentioned. The evolutionary theory, it is not new thing, as it is stated by Darwin. It is there in the Padma Purāṇa. But it is very perfectly explained there. Darwin has not very perfectly explained. There are so many defects. But real thing is that the living entity, soul, is transmigrating from one body to another and the chance of developed consciousness is human form of life. In this human form of life, if we do not understand "What I am, wherefrom I have come, where I am going next, why I have taken this body, subjected to so much miserable tribulations of life which I do not want?"

*Ultimately, all our miserable conditions have been summarized into four, birth, death, old age and disease. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. We are trying to have, become happy by our scientific knowledge, by advancement of knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa says that you cannot make any solution of these four problems. What is that? Birth, death, old age and disease. That is not possible. So we are happy by false happiness. This is called māyā. This is culture, this Indian culture. They agree, there is a māyā. This is Eastern culture. Māyā. Māyā means we are falsely happy. We are thinking that "Now I am well situated." But I am not thinking any moment, next moment, I may be kicked out of the situation and everything finished. Why I am being kicked out? I want to stay here permanently. Nobody wants to die. Why he dies? Where is the solution? This is lack of knowledge. But there is solution. There is solution. That is Eastern culture. The Eastern culture knows how to make the solution. Therefore, you'll find so many parties, the karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis, the bhaktas, they are all trying to make solution of these four problems, birth, death, old age and disease. That is Eastern gift. So now it is very happy moment that Indo-American Society. I wish that the Indo-American society should give a special stress to know why these four miserable conditions of life cannot be solved. And there is a solution. We can give you the solution. In the Bhagavad-gītā there is solution:

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*That is culture. That is really business of the human being that "I am put into this material condition of life. I am changing from one kind of body to another. Who knows that I am not going to become a tree next life?" But there is another species of life like tree, like birds, like beasts. There is no guarantee. There is no scientific guarantee that "You are not going to be tree, you are again going to become American." No, there is no guarantee. But there is guarantee. Because the so*-called scientists cannot make solution of this problem, they do not believe in next life. That is their defect of knowledge, lack of knowledge. They cannot make any solution. He wants to live permanently, but he cannot live by the laws of nature. Why does he not make a solution of this? But we can give the solution. Everyone does not want to become old. But he becomes forced to become old. Why he does not make any solution? But that solution we can give. This is Eastern culture.



So I request all you ladies and gentlemen to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sentimental movement. It is a very authorized, scientific movement. You are all educated, advanced ladies and gentlemen. I'll request you to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The American boys, it is already we are combining East and West socially, politically, religiously, philosophically, economically, everything. There is solution. But if you take it seriously. If you think this is a movement, sentimental move... It is not sentimental movement. It is a most scientific movement. Any scientist come to me. I can convince him that it is a scientific movement. I asked similarly to Professor Kotovsky in Moscow that "My dear Professor, what is the difference between your movement, communist movement, and my movement? You, you have selected Lenin as God. I have selected Kṛṣṇa as God. Where is the difference of principle? You cannot live without a leader or God. I cannot live without a leader or God. That's a fact. Then where is the difference? Now it is to be judged whether Lenin is good or Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But your position is that you have to accept one leader, either Lenin or Jawaharlal Nehru or Hitler or this or Lord (?) Churchill. You have to accept. You cannot work independently. Therefore you have got so many parties. So here is also one party, Kṛṣṇa party. So where is the difference in philosophy? There is no difference in philosophy. Now let us study whether Kṛṣṇa party is good or Lenin party is good. Then whole solution is there."

Thank you very much Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



*Prabhupāda: (Answers questions) ...Yes. (aside:) It is not working. [break] ...eternal soul is there in the Bhagavad*-gītā that... That I have already explained. Asmin dehe, in this body there is the proprietor of the body. This is conception of soul. Just like whenever we see some apartment or house we can understand that there is a resident or proprietor of this house. Similarly, we can understand, this body, there is some proprietor within this body. Therefore the body is working. If we see one house, nicely cleansed, there is light and everything is in order, we can understand there is resident. Similarly, when the proprietor of the body is there, the body is healthy... [break] ...That is the conception of existence of the soul. Nobody can deny it. [break]



...as soul without the body means ghost. Yes, that's a fact. Ghost means he has got no gross body, but he's working with the subtle body. We have got two kinds of bodies. The gross body is made of five elements, earth, water, air, fire, sky. And the subtle body is made of intelligence, mind and ego. So when a soul does not get a gross body, he has to work with the subtle body, that is ghostly life. So ghostly life is not false. Those who are too, too much sinful, sometimes they are condemned not to get a gross body. Just like if a man commits suicide. So nature gave him this gross body. He misused it. Therefore he's punished sometimes not to get again gross body. He becomes ghost.

Guest: (indistinct question)



Prabhupāda: What is that? [break] ...means you accept another body. So long you are under the laws of karma, you have to accept another body.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



Nature. You are desiring so many things in your life. They are recorded. And you have to accept each and every body, one after another. That is nature's gift. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. That is the nature's work. As you desire, so you get a body. If you misuse the body, then for sometimes you are restrained not to get a gross body. There are so many scientific problems about this life and transmigration of the soul. You can understand from the authorized Vedic literature, how the soul transmigrates from one body to another. That is also explained. The soul remains with the subtle body which we cannot see, but after destruction of this gross body, the soul is carried to another gross body according to his desire by the subtle body. The example is given: just like the flavor of flower garden is carried by the air, and if you do not, even though you do not see the flower, when you smell the good smell, you can understand wherefrom the air is blowing. Similarly, according to your desire, you get a body and that desire, that capsule of mind, intelligence will carry you to another body. God will give you the chance. This is the process.



Guest: If that is the case, then... [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...The ultimate goal of the soul is to reach God. That is the process. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. They do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. The ultimate goal of life is to reach God. That is really culture. So people do not know it. They think: "My ultimate goal of life is to make some good bank balance." But that is not the ultimate goal of life. The bank balance will be finished as soon as you give up this body. Your skyscraper building and bank balance, everything. Now according to your karma, according to your desire, karma means according to your desire, you'll have to accept another body. So these bodily activities, this possession of this body will be finished with your death. Then you have to begin another chapter. It may be human being, or it may be demigod, or it may be animal. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*So we have to accept another body. Therefore, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving intelligence to the person that "Here is your ultimate goal of life, Kṛṣṇa. Come here. Be trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa." This is our movement. That is the ultimate goal. [break] ...go somewhere. Because you are eternal. Simply by finishing your body, you will not finish. You have to go. But where you shall go? That you can plan in this life. And if you make this plan, that "I want to go back to home, back to Godhead..." The Bhagavad*-gītā is there. You study. You cultivate this knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa says: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. "My dear Arjuna, such persons who have developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, after giving up this body, he does not accept any more material body." Tyaktvā deham. "After giving up this body..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Janma means birth, means accepting another material body. Otherwise, the soul has no birth, no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. The soul never takes birth or never dies. It is the body only. It takes birth and dies according to my karma. So if one becomes Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa conscious, the ultimate goal of life, then after giving up this body, he does not accept any more any material body. Then what does he do? Mām eti, "He comes to Me." This is the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the ultimate goal of life.



Guest: Can't the (indistinct) attain through any other religion? (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Everyone. Don't you see it is practically? They were all Christians, Jews, Mohammedans. How they are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Guest: So is Kṛṣṇa consciousness the only method?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious... You... Maybe it in otherwise. But the aim is that there is God. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, we are now separated. We must be united again. That is the life's business.



Guest: So any other religion also can give...



Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why not? Any religion. We do not way that "You practice this religion or that religion." We say "Just try to go back to home, back to Godhead." That is our philosophy.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yenātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*If you want really happiness then you follow such principles by which you can develop your love for God. So it does not mean... If you can do it in Christianity, that's all right. If you can do it by Muhammadan religion, that's all right. But the aim should be to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our philosophy. (American gives short speech thanking Śrīla Prabhupāda, then Indian man (possibly life member) makes similar speech, but praises bhakti and chanting, quotes Bhagavad*-gītā, etc. Then kīrtana begins) (end)





730225LE.JKT

Lecture Excerpt

-

Jakarta, February 25, 1973



*Prabhupāda: ...all politicians, let them come, study. [break] ...this is not a movement sentimental. No. It is scientific. (indistinct) ...Christian, anyone, because it is science. Automatic, "Two plus two equal to four." It is four for everyone. Not that because one is Muhammadan it will be five, or because one is Christian it will be three. No. "Two plus two equal to four." Just like (indistinct). Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be efficient for everyone if he studies impartially. Otherwise, how in the Western world the Americans*-they are not foolish people, all these young men; *they are qualified, educated*-they're accepting this movement very seriously? I have got many branches almost in every city in America now. Similarly, in Europe. Why not here? Simply I invite all the intelligent class of men to understand. Take one of our books. We have given not only one Bhagavad-gītā... (indistinct) means (indistinct). Anyone can take part (indistinct) illiterate, literate, rich, poor-anyone. But if anyone is proud of his education, let him come and study our books, understand this philosophy, and I'm sure he'll find (indistinct) satisfying. Don't take it as something sentimental, religious (indistinct). It is a scientific, educational movement. Take it in that (indistinct), and you'll be profited.



Thank you very much. (applause) [break] (kīrtana) (end)



730226LE.JKT

Lecture

-

Jakarta, February 26, 1973



*Prabhupāda: So where is your national? Your national home is back to home, back to Godhead. That is your national, real, actual home. That is called sanātana. That I was explaining. There is another place, material..., spiritual world. That is also called sanātana. And the jīva, the living entity, is also mentioned as sanātana. And Kṛṣṇa is also mentioned as sanātana. When these three sanātanas come together, that is called sanātana life, and any process that takes us to that sanātana position, that is called sanātana*-dharma. That is called sanātana-dharma. We know sanātana-dharma. We have heard it only. But sanātana-dharma is not limited to a certain class of men or certain class of society or certain kind of country. No. Sanātana-dharma is meant for all living entities, because the living entity is sanātana, and God is sanātana, and the place where we can exist eternally, that place is called sanātana. And the process which teaches us to go back to sanātana land, sanātana existence, that is called sanātana-dharma. Try to understand, most of our Hindus, they call the sanātana-dharmī, but sanātana-dharma is not limited for any particular type of society. It is meant for the whole human being, living entity. Living entity sanātana. So when you accept this, when you understand what is sanātana, and we employ ourself in that process, that is called execution of sanātana-dharma.



*So we are spreading this sanātana*-dharma, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, throughout the whole world, not on the superficial platform of this bodily concept of life. We are teaching everyone that "You are not this body." Actually we are not, but it is because we are, at the present moment, we are educated as first-class rascals and fools, we are thinking that "I am this body." This is the defect of the modern civilization. But actually what Kṛṣṇa is trying to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna means everyone. He's not simply talking with Arjuna. Arjuna is simply via media. He's talking to the whole human society, intelligent class of men, that "We existed, we are existing now, and we shall exist also in the future." This is called sanātana, eternity. So na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ: "In the future we also shall exist." Now we should consider what is the problem now: I was present in the past, I am now present in the present, and I shall exist in the future. Then what is my problem? The problem is why I am changing this position of eternity? I am sanātana. I am eternal. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is the real existence, that I am Brahman. Brahman means eternal. But Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman. Param means the supreme, the chief. Therefore there are two terms in the Vedic language: ātmā, paramātmā; brahman, parabrahman; īśvara, parameśvara. There are two terms. We are not parameśvara, not paramātmā, not parabrahman. We are ātmā, īśvara... We can say, "I am īśvara." What does it mean, īśvara? Īśvara means controller. So, although we are servant, at the same time we are controller. That we can experience. I am now working in the office. I am servant of the establishment, but I'm given some power to control over certain departments. So simultaneously, I am servant and controller. As controller, I can be called īśvara, īśvara, god, as controller. But I am not controller, Supreme Controller. That I cannot say. Nobody can say that "I am the Supreme Controller." That you cannot say. You can control, say, a dozen of men. Another can control a hundred men. Another can control a thousand, or millions. But nobody can say that "I am the controller of the whole universe." That is not possible. That controller is Kṛṣṇa.

*Therefore in the śāstra it is said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: "The Supreme Controller is Kṛṣṇa." You are not supreme controller. Controller means god. So you can become a god, but you are not Supreme God. Therefore we use the word Godhead. Our magazine name is Back to Godhead. Not to "God." God, there are so many. Even the rascal, he is also god. That is another thing. But Godhead, that is explained in the Vedic literature, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. This is explanation. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. And how is He? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. He has got His form. God is not formless. Vigraha. Vigraha means form. But what kind of form? Sat-cid-ānanda. Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda means full of bliss. You find that form, Kṛṣṇa's picture, always blissful, ānanda. You'll see here is Kṛṣṇa's picture. Here He's enjoying with his pleasure potency, Rādhārāṇī. That is His own potency. When Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman, described, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. When Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he said..., he addressed Kṛṣṇa not as Kṛṣṇa. Before that he was addressing Kṛṣṇa, because he is friend. Now when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he understood Kṛṣṇa also. He addressed Him, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "You are perfect." So if Kṛṣṇa is even naughty actually, He's Parabrahman. So when Parabrahman wants to enjoy... Parabrahman must enjoy. Parabrahman is not without enjoyment, because wherefrom the idea of enjoyment comes unless it is in the Parabrahman? That is described in the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahman, inquiry about Brahman, Parabrahman, both. So what is that Parabrahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] wherefrom everything comes. Everything, all emanations.

*So this ānanda potency... We are seeking after ānanda. Every one of us, we are seeking after pleasure. This is struggle for existence. Everyone wants to be happy, peace and pleasure. But wherefrom this idea comes? The Vedānta*-sūtra says janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] it also comes from Parabrahman. So if Parabrahman has no such tendency how to enjoy, wherefrom this so-called love in this material world between young boy and young girl comes? There cannot be any existing. It is only perverted reflection of that pleasure potency of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. It is only perverted reflection. It is not false. It is temporary, perverted. Just like the example is sometimes given to mistake a rope as snake. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they give. They say it is māyā. But it is not māyā. When you mistake a snake as..., mistake a rope as a snake, that is not māyā. That is illusion. You can call it māyā. But the snake is there. You cannot say, because it is rope, therefore there is no snake. No. Snake is there. Otherwise, how it comes to the idea of snake? The snake is a fact, but you are mistaking the rope as snake. That is your mistake. But snake is not illusion; snake is a fact. Similarly, another example is given. Just like in the desert, the mirage... In the desert sometimes, the animals find that water, there is a vast mass of water, and when they're thirsty, they jump over and go farther, farther, farther. But because there is no water, he dies. But no sane man goes after that water. But water is not false. That water is being sought in a false place. Similarly, the pleasure, the pleasure between two sexes, man and woman, that is not false. But we are seeking that pleasure in a false place in this material world. Therefore you have (indistinct). It is a great science.

*So there is the pleasure, this sex attraction. But that sex attraction is not material, Kṛṣṇa, rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmāt, ekātmānāv api deha bhedaṁ gatau. Try to understand. For Brahman perception, Brahman pleasure, a great saintly person, he gives up everything material. He takes sannyāsa, he goes, undergoes severe penances, just to realize brahmānanda. So when Brahman... A person, ordinary person, to realize brahmānanda, he gives up everything material, do you think Kṛṣṇa, the Parabrahman, is enjoying something material? Just try to understand. Kṛṣṇa does not enjoy anything. He's Parabrahman. For understanding Brahman pleasure, a person is recommended to give up everything material. And when the Parabrahman wants to enjoy, does it means that He's enjoying something material? This is our nescience(?). This is our misunderstanding. When Parabrahman enjoys, He... But the difficulty is that this Māyāvādī philosopher, they cannot understand that in the spiritual world there is also pleasure. Their foolish brain cannot accommodate. Because here in this material world they have got very bad experience of this material... They want to make the spiritual world as zero or imperson due to less intelligence. But actually, real life, real pleasure, eternal pleasure is there in the spiritual world, not in this material world.

*So from Bhagavad-gītā, if you study scrutinizingly each word and each śloka*-not by man interpretation, but actually as it is-then we can understand what is our eternal life, what is our eternal pleasure, how we can return and sport there. Everything is explained there. Everyone can go. Everyone can transfer himself in that spiritual world-simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And the Kṛṣṇa understanding is there. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. He, if you do not introduce your so-called foolish scholarship, then you get actually back to home, back to Godhead, by simply studying Bhagavad-gītā. But if you add your foolish rascal scholarship, that "Kṛṣṇa means this and that means this, this means that," then you are lost. Study Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You get all information how to realize Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So 'ham. Don't misinterpret. Don't... There is no... Just like Kṛṣṇa... This verse is very plain. This verse says, na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam. Where is the difficulty? "My dear Arjuna, both I, you... It is not that I did not exist, you did not exist. Neither this soldier." Where is the difficulty to understand? Why should we misinterpret?

*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*No. The main meaning is very plain: that Dhṛtarāṣṭra was asking his father's secretary, Sañjaya, "My dear Sañjaya, māmakāḥ, my sons and pāṇḍavāḥ, my brother's sons, Pāṇḍavas, they assembled," dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1], "in the Kurukṣetra Field, which is known as dharma-kṣetra, the religious pilgrimage. After that meeting, what did they do?" Now, where is the difficulty to understand this verse? But unfortunately, one so-called scholar or so-called foolish man will come, he'll say, "Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetra means this body." No. "Where you get this meaning, sir?" But he'll say, explain in this way: "The Pāṇḍava means five senses." Well, in which dictionary you'll find? This is going on. This rascaldom is going on. If you'll give up this rascaldom, simply read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you'll become successful in life. That is our preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730227LE.JKT

Lecture

-

Jakarta, February 27, 1973



Prabhupāda: If there are people who cannot understand Hindi, so that is the (indistinct). This is (indistinct). Hindi or English?



Devotee: English.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There are many foreigners.



Devotee: Yes. I think there are many foreigners, they will understand.



Prabhupāda:



brūhi yogeśvare kṛṣṇe

*brahmaṇye dharma*-varmaṇi

svāṁ kāṣṭhām adhunopete

dharmaḥ kaṁ śaraṇaṁ gataḥ



*This is a question made by the great saintly persons who assembled in Naimiṣāraṇya to hear about Bhāgavata*-dharma. Real dharma, as I have already explained, just like... Dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma is not a faith. It is a fact, characteristic of the human being. Bhāgavata means in relationship with God, bhagavān, bhāgavata-tattva. This word... From bhāgavata-tattva there is bhāgavata. The root is the bhaga, and from that root this word is derived, bhāgavata. It is pertaining to the Personality of Godhead and His devotees. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the book of knowledge which is dealing with the Supreme Personality of Godhead with His different devotees. That is called Bhāgavata. There are two kinds of bhāgavata. One bhāgavata is this book, book bhāgavata. This book Bhāgavatam is the sound incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And there is another bhāgavata, who is spiritual master or the Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord. He's also called bhāgavata. A great devotee is called mahā-bhāgavata. So there are two kinds of bhāgavatas. The mercy representation of God is book bhāgavatam. Sound vibration, sound representation of God is from the book bhāgavatam. And the mercy representation of God is called the devotee bhāgavata.



*So here the question is that "After Kṛṣṇa's departure..." Kṛṣṇa lived or stayed in this planet for 125 years. After that, He went back to own abode. Here the question is, brūhi yogeśvare kṛṣṇe. Yogeśvara means the controller of all mystic power. Yoga is mystic power, and Kṛṣṇa is the master or the controller of all mystic powers. Therefore He's called Yogeśvara. Lord Śiva, he's called Yogīśvara. He's the best amongst the yogis. And Kṛṣṇa is called Yogeśvara. This yogeśvara word is also in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yatra yogeśvara hari. So Kṛṣṇa is the controller and master of all mystic power; *therefore He's called Yogeśvara. Brūhi, "Kindly let us know," yogeśvare kṛṣṇe, "when Kṛṣṇa went back to His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana," yogeśvare kṛṣṇe brahmaṇye. Brāhmaṇa, brahmaṇya means He's the original brahminical culture or He's worshiped by the brāhmaṇas. Viṣṇu, or Lord Viṣṇu is worshiped by the topmost class of men. So in the human society the topmost class of men are considered the brāhmaṇas. As it is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The human society must be divided into four classes of men. That is perfect human society. First-class men, second-class men, third-class men, and the fourth-class men. And after these fourth-class men, they're all fifth class, pañcama. So the first-class men are the brāhmaṇas, qualified brāhmaṇas, śamo damaḥ titikṣava, ārjava. And the second-class men are the kṣatriyas. The third-class men are the vaiśyas. And the fourth-class men, they are called śūdras. And the fifth-class, below the fifth-class, they are called pañcama or caṇḍāla. This is Vedic division of human society. So Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by the brāhmaṇas; therefore He's called brahmaṇye, or who gives protection to the brahminical culture. When Kṛṣṇa is offered obeisances, respectful obeisances, He's offered like this:

*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya (namo) namaḥ



*So Kṛṣṇa, first business is go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, He's the protector of cows and brāhmaṇas. Why? Why He's specially giving? Nowadays it has become a fashion, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, to give protection to the daridras. That is good idea. But why you should bring Nārāyaṇa amongst the daridras? Nārāyaṇa is not daridra. Nārāyaṇa is the husband of Lakṣmī, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. Not only one Lakṣmī, millions of Lakṣmīs. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Surabhīr abhipālaya. In the transcendental world, in Kṛṣṇaloka, there are..., there that is called goloka. Goloka means that planet is full of many cows, and those cows are known as surabhī. Surabhī. The Kṛṣṇa is habituated to take care of the cows. Just like nowadays any respectable gentleman is supposed to take care of dog, similarly, Kṛṣṇa (indistinct) take it as hobby, so He has got the hobby of giving protection to the cows. Surabhīr abhipālayantam. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam [Bs. 5.29]. And Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by many, many thousands of Lakṣmīs, these gopīs. The gopīs, they're all Lakṣmīs, expansion of goddess of fortune. They're not ordinary. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyā. Here in this material world everyone is worshiping Lakṣmī, or goddess of fortune. In the beginning of the year everyone worships Lakṣmī so that Lakṣmī may be pleased and money may come. But here (indistinct) we are worshiping Lakṣmī (indistinct), but there in the spiritual world not only one Lakṣmī but thousands of Lakṣmīs are worshiping Govinda. This is Kṛṣṇa's position. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama. And they're worshiping with all respect. So Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu or Nārāyaṇa, They cannot be daridra. This is a misconception. This is manufactured concoction, daridra-nārāyaṇa. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra? He's worshiped by many, many thousands of Lakṣmīs. How He can be daridra?



*So Kṛṣṇa is brahmaṇya*-deva and is surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. The surabhī cows.... Why they're called surabhī cows? Surabhī cows means you can take that milk from surabhī cows as much as you require and as many times as you like. Here in the material world the cows are there, you can take milk from the cows utmost twice, and not as much as you like; *as much as she likes to deliver, you can take. But surabhī cows, because they are in the spiritual world, you can draw as much milk as you can, and as many times as you can. But such cows are taken..., tendered by Lord Kṛṣṇa, surabhīr abhipālayantam. These are the descriptions in the Vedic literature about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not an imagination. As the Māyāvādī philosophers, they think of imagining the form of God*-Kṛṣṇa's not that type of God. He's described in the Vedas, Kṛṣṇa: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].

*rāmādi*-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

*govindam ādi*-puruṣam...

[Bs. 5.39]



*Kṛṣṇa is the parama*-pumā, the Supreme Personality. And rāmādi-mūrtiṣu, an incarnation, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, there are thousands and thousands of incarnations. Here also Kṛṣṇa's incarnation.



*So here it is said that when Kṛṣṇa departed from this world, His abode, because He's (indistinct)... His whole existence is from dharma, religious principles. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata: [Bg. 4.7] whenever there are discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principles... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, abhyutthānam adharmasya. One side, if religion is neglected, then irreligious principles will develop. That is the nature of everything. If you neglect this side, this side will be (indistinct). So Kṛṣṇa also says that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, "I come, I appear, My only business is to reestablish the religious principles." Kṛṣṇa does not come to this planet for making some money. He has got enough money because He's worshiped by the goddess of fortune. His business, coming down on this planet: to reestablish the religious principles. Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. And what is that religious principle? The religious principle is not man-made. Just like we have manufactured so many religious principles: this is Hindu dharma, this is Muslim dharma, this is Christian dharma, and this is this, this is that. So many. Kṛṣṇa does not come to reestablish the principles of this man-made religion. No. He has nothing to do. Because they are manufactured, concocted by imperfect men, they are not religious principles. The religious system means, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Religion means the principles which is given by God Himself. That is religion. You cannot imagine. Just like I have already explained. You cannot make law at home, that "I am a big man. I make my own law." That you can do. You may go on amongst some of your friends or your servants, but that law will not be accepted by everyone. But the law given by God, that will be accepted by everyone. Just like law given by the state government is accepted by everyone. So religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam. The principles of religion means which is given by God.

*So what is that religion? That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā very clearly: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is religion. Your man-made, so-called, manufactured religion you give up. (indistinct). It has got some temporary value. It has not permanent value. The permanent value of religion is that religion which is given by God. And that is... What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ, you simply surrender unto God. When I speak of Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. And Kṛṣṇa is the best name of God. Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." God must be all-attractive. God cannot be attractive for a few men or few, for a..., by a community. No. God must be attractive by everyone. That is God. So, Kṛṣṇa, by His opulences, by His strength, by His beauty, by His knowledge, by His renouncement-everything complete. Therefore He's God. Kṛṣṇa has... These are the attractive features. If one is very rich, he's attractive. If one is very powerful, he's attractive. If one is very beautiful, then he's attractive. If one is very wise, he's attractive. If one is in the renounced order of life, first-class, he's attractive. So Kṛṣṇa has all these opulences; *therefore He's accepted as God-not superficially*-by great, great saintly persons. Therefore Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord: paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. It is not that because he was Kṛṣṇa's friend, therefore, out of his sentiments he accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He accepted on the authority of the Vedas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So according to Vedic system, all sages, all the great saintly persons, all the great kings, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are many instances.

Now here it is inquired by the sages, saintly persons, from Sūta Gosvāmī,

brūhi yogeśvare kṛṣṇe

*brahmaṇye dharma*-varmaṇi

svāṁ kāṣṭhām adhunopete

dharmaḥ kaṁ śaraṇaṁ gataḥ



*After the departure of Kṛṣṇa... So long Kṛṣṇa was here, the religious principles were being properly executed. Now, after His departure, who has taken charge of this religious department? This is the question. "Who has taken charge of this religious department?" This is the question by the great sages, saintly persons at the Naimiṣāraṇya. You have heard the name of Naimiṣāraṇya. Then this is the last śloka of the First Chapter of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Then in the next chapter, Second Chapter, vyāsa uvāca, Vyāsadeva said,



*iti sampraśna*-saṁhṛṣṭo

viprāṇāṁ raumaharṣaṇiḥ

pratipūjya vacas teṣāṁ

pravaktum upacakrame



*Sūta Gosvāmī was very much engladdened that they had questioned about Kṛṣṇa. The question was, "Who has taken charge of the religious system after departure of Kṛṣṇa from this planet?" This is the question. So because the question was about Kṛṣṇa, therefore Sūta Gosvāmī was explaining bhāgavata*-dharma in that (indistinct) assembly. He became very much engladdened, "Ah, you have put questions about Kṛṣṇa. Very nice." Because if we simply question about Kṛṣṇa, and hear the answers about Kṛṣṇa, our life (indistinct) life. This is the (indistinct). To become spiritually advanced means, "Just try to question about Kṛṣṇa and try to understand the answers about Kṛṣṇa." Then your life is successful. It is so nice.



*So you can make so many questions-intelligent questions must be, of course-about (indistinct), and the answers are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā. So every (indistinct) this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, that not just in this meeting we shall discuss about Kṛṣṇa but at every home, every family, you can sit down together at the end of their work and simply question about Kṛṣṇa and try to understand the answers. The books are already there. Answers are already there. So this is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because people are contaminated by the three qualities. This material world is running on under the influence of three qualities of the modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. There are three qualities. [break] Therefore you do not find one kind of living entity, because there are three qualities, and again multiplied three by three, it becomes nine qualities, then again multiplied nine into nine, then it becomes eighty*-one qualities. Just like an expert artist, he's using three colors: blue, red and yellow. You mix the colors and he will manifest thousands of colors, thousands of colors. So actually the basic position of this material world is the three qualities: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now they are mixed up. Here you cannot find out purely sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa is the topmost quality in this material world. But here in the material world also, you cannot find pure sattva-guṇa. When you come to the pure state of sattva-guṇa, that is transcendental stage, spiritual life. Pure sattva-guṇa means there is no more attack by the other two guṇas. That is pure, śuddha-sattva. That is called śuddha-sattva, pure goodness. In that stage one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. First of all one has to come to the goodness quality platform. Then he has to transcend that quality of (indistinct), and that position means no more attacked by the other two lower qualities, namely passion and ignorance. So, sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva sarve, that stage is called vāsudeva. Vāsudeva means that Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, appears. That's why Kṛṣṇa's father's name was Vasudeva.

So he was very... Iti sampraśna saṁhṛṣṭo viprāṇāṁ raumaharṣaṇam, Sūta Gosvāmī, he's called Romaharṣaṇa. His father's name was Roma; *therefore he's called Romaharṣaṇa. Pratipūjya, when they inquired... Just like we say, "Thank you very much." So pratipūjya, he also offered his respectful obeisances, put very nice proposal, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa question (indistinct). It is very nice. Pratipūjya vacas teṣāṁ pravaktum upacakrame, began to speak, began to answer the question of the sages that "Unto whom the charge of religious principles have been given after the departure of Kṛṣṇa from this planet?" So he's speaking again, nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya [SB 1.2.4]*-these are all formalities-"Before speaking anything one should remember the mercy of Nārāyaṇa." Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam. Vyāsadeva is the guru of Vedic knowledge. Therefore Vyāsadeva or his representative, they are... Therefore, according to our system, when you observe the birthday anniversary of spiritual master it is called Vyāsa-pūjā. Actually the worship is going to Vyāsadeva, and his representative is accepting the pūjā. The honor offered to the spiritual master is transferred to Vyāsadeva because Vyāsadeva is the original guru. Therefore it is stated, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam. Sarasvatī-devi, knowledge, or the goddess of education, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam tato jayam udīrayet. After offering respects to Nārāyaṇa, then Vyāsadeva, Sarasvatī-devi.

*So he's answering the question, munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham: [SB 1.2.5] "My dear sages, great saintly persons, I'm very much honored that you have inquired so nicely," sādhu. Sādhu means (indistinct), that is the (indistinct). That is called sādhu. So this question about Kṛṣṇa is sādhu because Kṛṣṇa is discussed among the sādhus, not amongst the yogis. And who is a sādhu? That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30], he is sādhu. Bhajate mām ānanda-bhāk. Anyone who is purely devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he's sādhu, not anyone else. Sādhu means he's mahātmā. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty-ananya manaso [Bg. 9.13]. He's mahātmā, who is unflinchingly, without any deviation, engaged in the service of the Lord. He's called mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtiṁ āśritāḥ. They are not under the influence of this material qualities, daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. They're under the influence of the spiritual energy. Therefore they're called daivīm. So what is the symptom that one is under the spiritual energy? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, always engaged in the service of the Lord. That is the symptom. Therefore anything about Kṛṣṇa, that is sādhu. One who is questioning, he's also sādhu. One who is answering, he's also sādhu. And what to speak of one who is always engaged in the service of the Lord. He must be a sādhu. Sadhava sarva-bhūtānām. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām..., sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ [SB 3.25.21]. Sādhu means he's tolerant. He's tolerant, titikṣavaḥ. At the same time, kāruṇikāḥ, very merciful. Now these persons, because they are sādhus, they are so much tolerant. Anyone who's preaching about God, they're sādhu, because they have to meet so many dangerous people. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was killed, but he faced... Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was so much (indistinct), he was a Muhammadan, and he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. The Muhammadan magistrate called him, "Why you are chanting this Hindu Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?" Haridāsa Ṭhākura replied, "Sir, what is the wrong there? Just (indistinct) Hindus they have also become Muhammadans, so suppose I have become a Hindu. So what is the wrong there?" "Oh, you are talking before me? (indistinct) ...kill." He was ordered to be killed in twenty-two bazaars, because he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Similarly Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a devotee, and his father chastised him so many ways. So as soon as we become a sādhu, there is some danger to be captured by the asādhu. Just like in our, this movement, there are so many (indistinct). Somebody is preaching that this movement is the hippie movement. The hippie movement is discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. Just see the foolish propaganda. In India they manufactured a film, so much propaganda against this movement. We have to meet such enemies. What can be done? This is the nature of this world. As soon as you have become a sādhu, a devotee of the Lord, you create so many enemies-Communists, materialists-but we don't care. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja didn't care, even his father was so (indistinct). Haridāsa Ṭhākura did not care.

*So therefore those who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like all kinds of impediments. They are (indistinct) sādhus. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya*-kṛttamaḥ [Bg. 18.69]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody is dearer than him who is preaching," because he has to face so many impediments, so many obstructions. And he has to face (indistinct). Therefore it is said, sādhu, munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham: [SB 1.2.5] "Oh, your question is very nice." Sādhu, munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam. "We have put this question, but it is loka-maṅgalam." When you discuss this question and answer, it becomes very much auspicious to the whole human society. Loka-maṅgalam. Bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam. Why loka-maṅgalam? Yat-kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśno, because it was questions about Kṛṣṇa; *therefore it is loka*-maṅgalam, auspicious. Anyone who is hear about Kṛṣṇa, how is that simply by hearing [break] ...hear. Hearing is also so auspicious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you hear, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ... When Kṛṣṇa sees that you are hearing about Kṛṣṇa, immediately you become pious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. To hear about Kṛṣṇa, to speak about Kṛṣṇa, to glorify about Kṛṣṇa, they are all pious activities, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. So if we begin simply hearing about Kṛṣṇa, talking about Kṛṣṇa, then you become pious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. He's simply making the opportunity why the (indistinct), the individual souls are trying to approach Him. That is the yoga system. Yoga system means the jīvātmā, the soul, individual soul, tries to understand the Supersoul, Paramātmā. That is yoga system. It is not... It is mistaken idea that the Paramātmā and the ātmā, jīvātmā, is the same. They are same in quality, but Paramātmā is worshipable and jīvātmā is the worshiper. Paramātmā is the predominator and jīvātmā is the predominated. To understand this philosophy, that is yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yad yogi, yoginaḥ paśyanti. That means the seer. The seer is different from the person who is seen. Yad yoginaḥ paśyanti. The yoga system means that when the jīvātmā concentrates his mind, dhyānāvasthita, by meditation...Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, by the mind, paśyanti taṁ yoginam. This is the position of the Supreme Lord. He can be seen by the yoga practice.

*Yoga practice means, first*-class yoga practice is bhakti-yoga practice. By bhakti-yoga practice, that is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. There are many yogis. Out of many thousands of such yogis,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatena āntarātmanā

śraddhavān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*He's first*-class yogi. He's always seeing Kṛṣṇa within the heart. And he can see, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Prema, if you develop love for Kṛṣṇa, then you'll see Kṛṣṇa within your heart, always, twenty-four hours. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena, when your eyes are smeared with the ointment of love of God. You realize (indistinct), see God. You see God. This morning I have (indistinct), you see God. It is not very, I mean to say, impossible. It is possible by everyone, even by child, what to speak of grown-up. Simply you have to follow the instructions. Just like Kṛṣṇa says how to see Him, how to practice to see Him:



raso 'ham apsu kaunteya

*prabhāsmi śaśi*-sūryayoḥ

*praṇavaḥ sarva*-vedeṣu

śabdaḥ ke pauruṣaṁ nṛṣu

[Bg. 7.8]



Kṛṣṇa says that "If you find difficulty to see Me, then try to see me in the water, or any liquid thing." That's all. In every liquid, the water is there, (indistinct) liquid, there is some water. Now you taste. That is (indistinct). Even the drunkard, they have developed a kind of rasa, a kind of taste in the wine. So Kṛṣṇa says, "All right, when you taste wine, (indistinct) taste Kṛṣṇa, I am (indistinct)." So who cannot see Kṛṣṇa? Everyone can see. Even greatest drunkard can see Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of a devotee. Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. If you are tasting something... It is just like the drunkard, they take wine, "All right, that taste is Kṛṣṇa." To practice this, not to speak of the ordinary man, they're drinking water, but those who are drinking wine... If you think, "Now I am drinking wine, I am tasting, it is very nice taste. This is Kṛṣṇa." Then one (indistinct) a great devotee. So where is the difficulty? To see Kṛṣṇa there is no difficulty. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. That Kṛṣṇa is so nice that every (indistinct) of life, if you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness your life will be sublime. [break] ...(indistinct) padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. Just like (indistinct) to hear about Kṛṣṇa, that is the only thing.



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*Kṛṣṇa is there within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. As soon as you become little sincere to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then everything becomes (indistinct) automatically. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (aside:) Any questions?



Devotee: So any questions? Anyone have a question they can ask?



Guest: (indistinct)



Devotee: He asks that you speak something about new information (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (end)





730228LE.JKT

Lecture

-

Jakarta, February 28, 1973



Prabhupāda:



...na tvaṁ neme janādipāḥ

na caiva na bhaviśyāmaḥ

sarve vayam ataḥ param



*This verse (I have) partially explained last night. This is very important subject matter. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Bhagavad*-gītā is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead; therefore the knowledge is perfect. We are conditioned soul under the rules and regulation of the material nature, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is not under the rules and regulation of the material world. That is the difference. Both of us, we are living entities, as I explained. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God is also one of us. So far we are living entities, are concerned, we are the same. Just like I explained last night that we are samples of God, but He's complete, He's the whole; *we are part and parcel. As part and parcel, there is tendency of being covered by māyā. The example we can cite that the sun and the sunshine... Sunshine means accumulation of shining particles. They are also individual shining material, molecular parts. The cloud can cover the sunshine partial, not all. The sunshine is expanding millions and millions of miles. Out of that, hundred, two hundred miles may be covered by the cloud. So that portion of sunshine is called material world. Just try to understand. The God is just like sun, kṛṣṇa sūrya*-sama, and the sunshine, light, is the brahmajyoti. Impersonal brahmajyoti is just like the sunshine, and Paramātmā is just like the sun globe. To understand the Absolute Truth we have to make progress from impersonal Brahman to localized Paramātmā and then, from Paramātmā, to this Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*The Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, when Śukadeva Gosvāmī was explaining that duty of the human being... Duty of the human being is explained that first beginning is dharma. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Unless we come to the platform of understanding what is dharma, or religion... "Religion" is not the exact translation of the word dharma. Religion is understood in English dictionary as a kind of faith. But dharma does not mean that. Dharma means your characteristic which you cannot change. Just like water... Water is liquid. That is the characteristic of water. It cannot be changed. Stone-hardness is the characteristic of the stone. It cannot be changed. If you say that water has now changed its characteristic, it has become now hard, stonelike, that is not actually the fact. Although water sometimes becomes hard like stone by the influence of atmosphere, it immediately begins to melt. That means it is going to its own characteristic, liquidity. So when we speak of dharma, according to Vedic understanding, dharma means your characteristic which you cannot change. Therefore, in other words, sometimes dharma is explained as sanātana-dharma, sanātana-dharma. Sanātana means eternal. You cannot change it.



*So you are eternal, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Second Chapter, text number 12:

na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ

na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ

na ca eva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ

sarve vayam ataḥ param



*Kṛṣṇa says that "Both Arjuna, you, Me and all these persons, the soldiers and the kings who are assembled in this Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, don't think that they did not exist in the past nor they will not exist in the future." That means present, you can see. Just like we are sitting together. Present we can see that you are there, I am here. Similarly, in the past also we are existing, and in the future also we shall exist in the same way. As you are individual souls, we are assembled together for understanding something. Similarly, every individual soul is different from one another. We can understand by our present experiment. You are individual soul, I am individual soul. I do not agree with you in every respect, neither you agree with me in every respect. All of us, we have got our individuality. That is our characteristic. That we cannot change. We have got our individuality. We cannot change it. This is our characteristic. And that individuality also meant for giving service. Just like you are all sitting here. Every one of us, we are giving service. Nobody can say... I challenge anybody in this meeting if he can say that he's not serving anybody. No. Everyone is serving. Somebody is serving his family, somebody is serving his boss, somebody is serving his country, his community, his nation*-must be serving, must render some service. This is explained by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that the characteristic of individual living entity is to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Kṛṣṇa dāsa. We do not become Kṛṣṇa. This is a false theory. We never become Kṛṣṇa. We cannot become even equal to Kṛṣṇa. Asama. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that God is not only great but nobody is equal to Him. Asama. Asama means not equal. Everybody is below. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmām. That is the statement in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad:



nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām

eka yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān

(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)



*This is the distinction between God and others. He's also living entity, just... Kṛṣṇa comes just like ordinary human being, and He works also with us, but that does not mean that Kṛṣṇa is like us. No. That is a mistake. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. This is stated, that "Those who are mūḍha"-mūḍha means rascal or asses-"they think that I am also equal to them or they're equal to..." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. They deride, they think "Kṛṣṇa is as good as I am." This term(?), thinking like this, is meant for the asses, mūḍha. Muḍḥa means asses, who has no knowledge. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto [Bg. 9.11]. "He does not know what is the background of My existence, personality." That is known by the devotees.



*So this is the statement of Bhagavad*-gītā, and we should try to understand this verse very nicely. Kṛṣṇa says, "I existed." That means Kṛṣṇa existed as the Supreme Lord, not like us. Similarly, we existed also in the past as His servants. That is the explanation of this verse. Because we are eternal servant of God, and that service attitude, being misplaced, we have divided our service spirit in so many ways. Everyone is trying to render service. Big, big leaders, they also want to give some service. So this is our service attitude. It is our eternal attitude. It cannot be changed. Just like faith. Today I am Muslim and tomorrow I may become Hindu. Today I am Christian and tomorrow I may become Muslim. Faith can be changed, but my character is still that I am servant. That cannot be changed. It does not mean... Suppose you are working in office. Now today you are Hindu or tomorrow you become Muslim. Does it mean in the office you be, become master? No. The service is there. Either you change your faith or don't change your faith, your character is still to serve, will continue. That is the reality. That is sanātana. Sanātana means eternal. Try to understand.

*So sanātana, this word has been used in three or four places in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta jīva-loka sanātana [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātana. These living entities, they are sanātana. And another place in the Eighth Chapter in Bhagavad-gītā this sanātana word is used: paras tasmāt tu bhāva 'nya 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another sky. Just like we are seeing this sky. This is called material sky, and we are seeing the sky in one universe. We, according to our Vedic information, the sky which you are seeing, this is the sky of one of the universes. And there are millions of universes. We get this information from Vedic literature, Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe and koṭi means millions. So the sky which we're seeing before us, this is one of the sky of the universe. There are millions. And all these universes combined together is one part creation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That we find in the Bhagavad-gītā.

atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

[Bg. 10.42]



*"This material world is being maintained by one of My plenary portions. He is known as Paramātmā." Viṣṭabhya aham. "I enter by one of My plenary portions, and this whole material world is maintained in that." This material world is one*-fourth manifestation of God's creation, and the spiritual world is three-fourth manifestation of... [break] ...which is known as brahmajyoti. There are millions and trillions of Vaikuṇṭha planets. Vaikuṇṭha planets... Vaikuṇṭha, Vaikuṇṭha means vigata-kuṇṭha yasmād. Kuṇṭha means anxiety. Just like within this material world we are full of anxieties. Similarly, when you..., when we go to the spiritual world there is also planet like this, but there is no kuṇṭha, there is no anxieties. Here anyone, up to Brahmā, ā-brahma bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna, even if you go to the highest planetary system within this universe, still your anxiety will go with you. Your anxiety for what? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. The anxiety for death, anxiety for birth, anxiety for disease-these are the sum and substance of all our anxieties. Anxiety must be there. Therefore when Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by his father, "My dear son, what nice things you have learned? Will you kindly explain? You're going to school," Prahlāda Mahārāja said,



*tat sādhu manye 'sura*-varya dehināṁ

*sadā samudvigna*-dhiyām asad-grahāt

*hitvātma*-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

[SB 7.5.5]



*The father was atheist, and the son, by nature*-not by nature; *he was instructed by Nārada Muni about devotional service, so he became perfect. That was the quarrel between the father and the son. The son was a great devotee and the father was a great atheist. The father did not like that his son should be devotee, and father..., son did not like that his father should remain an atheist. So there was misunderstanding. The son was right, but the father will not change his atheistic view. So anyway, after all, father and son, the relation is very affectionate, filial affection. So father asked that whether his son has changed his views. "My dear son, will you kindly explain what you have learned best." So he said, tat sādhu manye-asura-varya. He's addressing his father, asura-varya. Asura means demon, and varya means the top, varyam, the first-class asura. He did not address his father as "father." Asura-varya: "My dear first-class demon, I think you are asking me what is the best thing. So, in my opinion, everyone is very, very anxious." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehinām. Dehinām means one who has accepted this material body. He's called dehī. Practically we do not require this material body, but we have accepted this material body for enjoying in this material world. In the spiritual world we can simply remain as servant. We cannot become master. Because in the spiritual world the master is one-Kṛṣṇa, or God*-and everyone is servant. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is, that is our real position. Our real position is to serve. Now in the material world we have come here to enjoy, but we are serving. This is called māyā. Actually we are not enjoying; *we are serving. Suppose I become president of a certain state. What is my position? My position is to serve the country there. But I am thinking, "Now I am president." Similarly, in family life the head of the family, he's thinking that he's master, but actually he's serving his wife, his children, his servant. So our actual position is servitude. We serve. Either I become president or minister or head of the family, head of the community, society-whatever I may be, my position is servant, but I'm thinking that I have become master. This is called illusion. And sometimes when I become exasperated by becoming such master, false master, I give up this world. I say brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "This world is false. Now I shall become Brahman, the Supreme Brahman. I shall merge into Brahman." This is... Just like the grapes are sour. The jackal and the orchard... You have knowledge of this story. This jackal wanted to capture the grapes, and when he could not capture, he gives it up: "Oh, the grapes are sour. It is no use." Similarly, first of all we try to become master-master of family, master of society, master of community, master of nation, master of international figure*-and when you're baffled, then you give up this world. So-called give up. We cannot give up. But we say brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "This world is false, and now brahma is satya; *therefore I shall become Brahman." You are already Brahman. Why you shall become? You're already Brahman, because you are part and parcel of God. God is Brahman, Parabrahman, and you are Brahman also. Just like your part and parcel of the body, finger, that is of the same material as your whole body, the same blood, same skin, same bone. Similarly, we are already all Brahman. There is no mistake. Actually you want to be situated in His position. He knows that "I'm Brahman." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So 'ham. So 'ham means "I'm as good as Kṛṣṇa and God." That we know. Simply by our material understanding we cannot realize it. Actually we are Brahman. Therefore this Brahman realization is being explained by Kṛṣṇa. This is Brahman. Brahman means sanātana, eternal. "My dear Arjuna, you also existed, I also existed in the past, because we are Brahman." Otherwise matter does not exist eternally. Any matter, any material thing you take, it does not exist. It has got a beginning and it has got an end, and in the middle there are so many disturbances*-six kinds of changes in the matter, ṣaḍ-vikāra. But spirit, soul, Brahman, it has no change. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Avināśi, na hanyate, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. These statements are there.



So this is Brahman realization, that "I have no death. I have no birth." This is Brahman realization. The birth and death is concerned with this body, and I am not this body.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ jauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir

[Bg. 2.13]



Just like I, living entity, I am all existing in this body. I'm changing bodies so many times. I was a baby; I changed that body. I became a boy or a child. Then I became a boy; I changed my body. Then I became a young man; I changed my body. Then I became an old man; *I changed my body. All those bodies, different types of body-babyhood, childhood, boyhood, youthhood*-they are now gone, and now I'm existing in this old body. So it will also go. But that does not mean that I'll be finished. No. I'll accept another body. As I am changing different types of bodies, I am existing. Similarly, when I shall change this body, I shall exist in another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dhīra means those who are sober. He's not bewildered. Adhīra. There are two kinds of men-dhīra and adhīra. Adhīra means senseless, crazy, and dhīra means with sense. He's not bewildered. He's called dhīra. So when somebody dies, one who is dhīra, he understands, "My father, my brother, or my relative, or somebody else, he has simply changed this body." Tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir. "So what is the cause of lamenting?" These things are discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā. But even if you have got affection for that body, still Kṛṣṇa says,



*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino anitya

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



*"My dear Arjuna, even if you are very much affected when the body of your son or your relative is finished, these things are temporary," āgamāpāyina anitya. This death is also temporary because he'll accept immediately another body. So because we are accustomed to think that "This body is my son," or "my father," "my this, that," there is some pain, causes of pain. But Kṛṣṇa says, "These are temporary." You'll not forever cry for your father, for son. Say one day, two days, three days, that's all. So it is just like temporary seasonal change, āgamāpāyino 'nitya, mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. Just like we are feeling now very warm; therefore we require fan. This is due to change of season. Again, sometimes it will come that we have to cover with warm. So the body is the same, the world is the same, but something comes and goes. It makes some changes in the order. So we have to simply tolerate, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. You should not be overwhelmed. This is knowledge.



*This human form of life is meant for this knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is teaching. This is brahma*-jñāna. This Bhagavad-gītā is actually brahma-jñāna. To make one brahma-bhūta by understanding the Bhagavad-gītā, teachings of Bhagavad-gītā, one realizes that he's Brahman. That is called Brahman. And as soon as one realizes-brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20]. Now we are jīva-bhūta, jīva-bhūta. We have accepted this body as "I am." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Indonesian," "I'm a Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I'm black," "I'm white." This is bodily. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. One who is in bodily concept of life... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Now everyone is mad after bhauma. Bhauma means the land. Because my body, by accident, my body is produced in certain land, therefore I take this land as worshipable. Now it is going on, nationalism. [break] ...bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. (End)



730301LE.JKT

Lecture

-

Jakarta, March 1, 1973



*Prabhupāda: ...he was personal friend of Kṛṣṇa. Just try to understand how much qualified he was. Not only that, he belonged to the royal family. He was a great warrior, great hero, so many qualities. But he said that "I cannot practice this yoga system. It is not possible. I cannot control my mind and practice this haṭha-yoga system." Now just try to understand. He is such a personality, great personality, and five thousand years ago, when things were so nice. So at that time a person like Arjuna felt that he's unable to practice this yoga system. And nowadays a (indistinct) people with teeny knowledge, they are trying to practice yoga system as if they're..., he has become more than Arjuna. It is very difficult subject matter. It is not possible for ordinary man. The first principle is that he has to sit down alone in a sacred place, alone. Yoga practice is not possible in a big city, with friends and smoking habit and drinking habit. This all first. One has to become very strong in controlling the mind, controlling the senses, sitting in a solitary place, sacred place like Himalaya or Hardwar, like that. And who is going there, and who is practicing? It is not possible. Not only that, he has to sit down straight, and not bending, and looking on the tip of the nose, and not closing the eyes completely, half closed-so many rules and regulations*-and always thinking of Viṣṇu. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā pra... It is not possible. This yoga system, Arjuna denied five thousand years ago. And what we are? This is going on, all farce.



*Here is the yoga system Kṛṣṇa describes, sa ma guhyatamam, most confidential yoga system. What is that? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto: [Bg. 18.65] "Simply always think of Me." Man-manā, mad-bhakta: "You just become My devotee." So this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Even I don't like it, think Kṛṣṇa, as soon as the name is chanted immediately I'm forced to think of Kṛṣṇa, immediately. Hare Kṛṣṇa, as I say, immediately I remember Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. Not only that, a devotee thinks of Kṛṣṇa because he develops love for Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as we develop our love for Kṛṣṇa, we must have to think of Kṛṣṇa. Just like we think of our lover, beloved, always, similarly, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we develop our love for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore as soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you immediately remember Kṛṣṇa. That is man-manā. And unless I have developed devotional service, then how I can chant Kṛṣṇa? Just like they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But I am advising everyone. But we, who others are chanting, they are not chanting because they have no love for Kṛṣṇa. Ah. So man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī [Bg. 18.65]. And how it is prac... How it is? By worshiping Kṛṣṇa. Just like we have got our temple, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temple, and from morning, four o'clock, to night ten o'clock, we have got business how to worship Kṛṣṇa. This time ārati, this time bhoga, this time chanting, this time reading about Kṛṣṇa, understanding of Kṛṣṇa-whole day and night we have got description. If you come to our temple in the foreign countries, you'll be pleased to see how they are doing.

*So these are the processes, confidential, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. It does not require any high education. To think of Kṛṣṇa, any child can do. To chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, any child can do. It is not difficult. And to offer obeisances before the Lord Kṛṣṇa's Deity in the temple, anyone can do. Where is the difficulty? Mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, simply by offering obeisances, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's picture. Let me offer my obeisances." Simple thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bha..., the most confidential. The result? What will be the result? Result is mām evaiṣyasi satyam: "I take it, without any desire to cheat you, satyam, the truth that he'll come back, back to home, back to Godhead." Simply by executing these four principles-always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā, becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, following the devotional process, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Viṣṇu means Kṛṣṇa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Just hear about Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam...

[SB 7.5.23]



*Take any one of them or nine of them, His devotee, bhagavad*-bhakta. The result will be mām evaiṣyasi satyam, "I don't cheat you." Kṛṣṇa is not cheating anyone. Still He says that "Don't think I am a cheater, satyam. Yes. Truly you'll come back to Me." Mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo 'si me. "And why You are disclosing this confidential knowledge to me?" Priyo 'si me: "You are My very dear friend." Somehow or other you become dear friend of Kṛṣṇa and He's within you. He'll always talk with you, most confidentially, and your life will be successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But unfortunately, people are not prepared to accept this simple thing and make his life successful. Still we are canvassing door to door, country to country, that "You accept this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you'll be happy in your life," not only this life, next life. That is is perfection of life.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Would anyone like to ask a question to His Divine Grace? This is Śrīla Prabhupāda's last public speaking engagement before he goes to India, so it's the only opportunity you'll have to ask any questions if you have any.



Indian man: If someone cannot chant sixteen rounds a day...



Prabhupāda: I never said that sixteen rounds. I say chant. Sixteen rounds is not very difficult. But we say chant. You begin chanting. How many rounds, that doesn't matter. You go on chanting.



*Indian man: (indistinct) Bhagavad*-gītā (indistinct) is it the proper one?



Prabhupāda: Well, if the translation is all right, it is proper. But there are so many rubbish translations. You see. There are so many rubbish translations. Misinterpretation. That is dangerous. Translation, if there is right translation, it is all right.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: That is all right.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. (pause) Any more?



Indian man (2): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is later on. That is later on. Later on. But in the beginning you simply chant.



Guest (3): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. These are the principles for the initiated disciple, initiated disciple. Those who are very serious, for them.



Guest (3): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Necessarily it is... Just like if you become a policeman, the uniform is necessary.



Guest (3): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not necessary, at the same time necessary. It is not necessary, but at the same time necessary. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





730302LE.JKT

Lecture

-

Jakarta, March 2, 1973



Devotee (1): This is their temple. They sit here and they pray. The priest sits on there platform there, all, and offers prayers. There's a chair on the top, and the god should be sitting there.



Indian man: This is district of (indistinct). They want to construct here also, some kind of (indistinct). (Indonesian music plays for a few minutes) (welcoming speech in Indonesian in the background, being translated into English:)



Indian man: We (indistinct) Indonesia welcome His Holiness to this temple (indistinct). We are very grateful that His Divine Grace has make time to come and see us here. Later, after we pray to God for (indistinct) prayers, welcome, we ask His Divine Grace to give us some message to our Hindus at Indonesia. Before that, we are going to recite Gāyatrī mantra, to pray to God. (group chants mantras followed by chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana)



*Prabhupāda: (chants praṇāma mantras) So I shall sing Jaya Rādhā*-Mādhava. You can play with me? (sings Jaya Rādhā-Mādhava and chants praṇāma prayers) So somebody translate? Somebody translate my...



Devotee (1): A translator?



*Prabhupāda: So Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much. The Gāyatrī mantra, which you have chanted just now, we also chant the same Gāyatrī mantra: oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi. So we have got Gāyatrī mantra general, as well as specific. Just like we have got Gāyatrī mantra for Guru-Gaurāṅga, then Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, that completes the Gāyatrī mantra. So this Gāyatrī mantra is also mentioned in the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is the statement, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi, this dhīmahi mantra is in reference to the Gāyatrī. So we have got very intimate relationship. You have uttered the name of Puṇḍarīkākṣam, Nārāyaṇa, these are very known terms in the Bhāgavata pṛṣṭam(?). Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya has mentioned about Nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa parā avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa is the Personality of Godhead beyond this material world. Nārāyaṇa is not the person of this material world. So there is another word which is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā: paras tasmāt tu bhāva anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature, bhāva-bhāva means nature*-which is beyond this material nature. So we, living entities, we also belong to that spiritual nature. We are also part and parcel of Nārāyaṇa. So some way or other we have come to this material world. Some way or other we have come to this material world, therefore we have got this material body. And because we have got this material body, we are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. So our real problem is that although we are spiritual beings, we have been caught up by material bodies. How to get out of these clutches of birth, death, old age and disease, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.



*So we are preaching the teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā all over the world. So we invite you also to join this movement. You have already the sense of Vedic culture. Now, if you cooperate with us fully, we can develop a very nice cultural movement here also. The problem of birth, death, old age, and disease is for everyone. But, on account of their material association, they do not take this problem very seriously. So one who does not give any importance to these problems, he is no better than animals. The problems of birth, death, old age and disease are there in the animals, as well as in human society. But the animals cannot make a solution. But the human being can make a solution. And to make the solution of these problems, there are the Vedic literatures. [break]

So I think that you ladies and gentlemen here should take very serious account for this movement and join us. I shall invite some of your leading persons to meet me today or tomorrow, because tomorrow I shall be going. And if you are serious, we can preview some plan how we can cooperate. So you have got nice place, combinedly we can develop it into very nice center for spiritual culture. And that cultural movement will be interested by everyone in the world. Even those who were not aware of the Vedic culture, they're also joining and taking part in this movement. So my earnest request is that you should seriously think over the matter and join with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

Guest: And we from the Hindu side, Indonesia, we thank His Divine Grace for giving us advice and encouragements. (indistinct) And some of us will try to come to see His Divine Grace to talk about this matter and we will take it further.



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's all. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now you play your (indistinct), we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chanting of mahā*-mantra for some minutes) (leads praṇāma prayers) Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we can go?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma... [Cc. Ādi 17.21].



Devotee (1): He would like to say something.



Prabhupāda: Acchā.



Guest: (indistinct) five o'clock.



Prabhupāda: Five o'clock. (indistinct) [break]



Devotee (2): ..., Prabhupāda. They listened too. I was watching. They were all listening very carefully.



Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21].



Devotee (2): You like those gongs?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee (2): You like those gongs.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Very nice.



Devotee (1): This type of temple and culture is prominent in that island of Bali. Many, many people. Here there are just a few, in Jakarta.



Prabhupāda: So we have to introduce this here. And if they give place, immediately take it.



Devotee (1): We have it. We'll take. It's very close to the man's house who built this temple, the man who was speaking in Indonesian. He gave us the house. Over a month ago they offered it to us.



Prabhupāda: So then take it.



Devotee (1): Before we were coming every Saturday here to teach their children, just kīrtana and some stories. The children of that man, when I first came there and I was saying Hare Kṛṣṇa, they started saying "Bhīma," "Arjuna," "Yudhiṣṭhira," like this. They know many stories. Of course, many stories are wrongly told, but they have some familiarity with Vedic knowledge, a little. They have paintings also of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, stealing their clothes, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot. But they don't know how to present Kṛṣṇa as He is in His original form. They make Him more like a man because they don't know. But it's a basis. [break] ...nice. Maybe we can do that in some of our temples in India. Playing maṅgala āratika over the loudspeaker.



Devotee (2): Like the Muslims, they chant...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (2): I remember in Allahabad they used to have some camps that were doing that every morning.



Devotee (3): In Māyāpur they play tapes all day.



Devotee (1): With big speakers like that?



Devotee (3): Yeah. Be heard all around.



Devotee (1): That's very nice. (end)





730519LE.DAL

Arrival

-

Dallas, May 19, 1973



*Prabhupāda: ....five years old. It is a school. He was preaching amongst the class-friends this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You have seen the picture of Prahlāda Mahārāja standing on the table-of course, there was no tables in those days*-and speaking to his class-friends about devotional service. The friends of Prahlāda Mahārāja, they objected, that "We are now children. Let us play now. We shall see about God consciousness when we are old enough, or at the time of death we shall see to it." Prahlāda Mahārāja said,



kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

[SB 7.6.1]



*Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My dear friends, Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be learned from the very beginning of life, kaumāra." The learning should be beginning between five years old to ten years old, between this time. This Bhāgavata*-dharma especially, first thing is, the children from the very beginning of their life should be given instruction on religious principles of life. What are the religious principles? Religious principle means to understand what is God. That is religious principle. It doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim or any... There are many hundreds and thousands patterns of religious system, but according to our Bhāgavata school, we accept that religion as first class which teaches how to love God. That is religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That system of religion is first class wherein the followers are given lessons how to love God. Unfortunately, at the present moment there is no question of how to teach them for loving God. They deny the existence of God. This is the present situation. People have become so rascal that they do not believe in the existence of God. Or somebody believes... Not believes. That is affirmed. Some of them say, "God is dead. Now we have to take to social work, political work. Let the subject matter of God be set aside." Especially in India. In India, the country where still God consciousness is so strong, the government wants that they should forget about this God business. So this is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means simply for fight on trifling things and forget God.



*So anyway, apart from their business, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is especially meant for awakening the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness of every man. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone. Otherwise how these European, American young men, young girls, children, they are taking part in it? It is not that I have bribed them. Sometimes the Christian missionaries go to our country. They bribe the poorer classes of men, and they become Christians*-not by understanding the philosophy or the religion. Because India is poverty-stricken, so if you do some social work, give them some medicine, give them some financial help, they think of, being obliged, and whatever you like, you can tell them. Similarly, in Muhammadan time also, all the Indian Muhammadans, they were not coming from very respectable high family. You know, in India there are four classes of men: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Out of them, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya are considered the topmost class. Now everything has deteriorated. So we find from the history of this conversion, from the śūdra class, lower than the śūdra class, not very many from the higher class. So still, that was based on bribing, giving some social help, political help, financial help. But our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement I started in 1966. I came here with seven dollars and a few books. So it was not possible for me to bribe these educated young boys and girls. That was not possible. But they accepted the philosophy very seriously and gradually it is growing. Now there are many Indians, they are not here, but other than the Indians, they are here. So the thing is I am very glad that you take something very seriously. That is very good. So for the children also, kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. Prājñaḥ means one who is intelligent. He should begin learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the child life. That is our basic principle of this Gurukula. We are trying to generate some population fully Kṛṣṇa conscious so that they may preach in future very nicely.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, dharmān: "People, children should be taught from the very beginning of their life about dharma, religion." What is that religion? Religion means to accept God as the supreme authority. That's all. The sum and substance. And try to love Him. Just like very, if you have got a very wealthy friend or very learned friend or beautiful friend, you try to love him. You want to make friendship with him. So God means He is the most richest, most powerful, most learned, most beautiful. In this way, there is no comparison of God's opulence. So why should we not be attracted with God? If some rich man in your quarter attracts the attention of the neighbor, neighborers... If God is the richest man... He is not man; *He is God. But He looks like man. He... Just like we see Kṛṣṇa here, He has got also two hands and two legs. That is His original form. If He likes, He can expand thousands of hands and thousands of legs, as it was exhibited to Arjuna in His virāṭ*-puruṣa form. But the original form is Kṛṣṇa, ādi-puruṣam. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta... Although He can expand Himself in many millions of forms, but His original form is Kṛṣṇa.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is directly connecting people with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and especially these children are required to learn this Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very beginning of their life. Because this human form of life is the only chance to understand God. You cannot understand God in any other form, in the form of a dog, in the form of a cat, or even the form of a demigod. Demigods, they are very rich, opulent, so sometimes they forget. Out of very much being affluent, people forget Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the demigods also sometimes forget. And what to speak of the animals. So this human form of life is the only chance to understand God. Therefore if children are not given lesson about God... There is no guarantee that we will live one hundred years. There is no guarantee. Anyone, at any moment, can pass away. Therefore, before the next death comes, one must be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the highest achievement of life.

Thank you very much. (end)



730822LE.LON

Lecture: What is a Guru?

-

London, August 22, 1973



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rupaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare

hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare



[My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.]



Thank you very much. So, tonight's subject matter for speaking is "What is Guru?"



Haṁsadūta: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So, guru, there are many descriptions. Subject matter is the same, but different way, guru has been described by different ācāryas. Their aim is the same, but language or presentation may be little different. So generally guru means,



*ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākaya

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



*Just like in darkness, ajñāna*-timirāndhasya. Ajñāna means ignorance, without knowledge. That is called ajñāna. So ajñāna is compared..., ignorance, stupidity, is compared with darkness. Just like if you are, if this room, immediately, all lights are off, then it becomes dark. We cannot see where I am sitting, where others are sitting. It becomes a confusion. Similarly, in this material world, we are all in the darkness. This material world is called darkness. It is called tamaḥ. Tamaḥ means darkness. Or timir. Timir means darkness. And actually, it is darkness. Because, because this material world is dark, there is need of sunlight, there is need of moonlight, there is need of electricity. (aside:) This child disturbing. But there is another world. We get description from the Vedic literature, na yatra bhāsayate sūryo na śaśaṅko na pāvakaḥ. There is another world, spiritual world, where there is no darkness, and therefore, there is no need of sunlight, there is no need of moonlight, there is no need of electricity.



So guru's business is to bring out the disciples from darkness to light. That is guru's business. That is guru. First business is that because he is suf... Everyone is suffering on account of ignorance. Just like you contaminate some disease out of ignorance. You do not know hygienic principle; *you do not know that "This thing will contaminate me. This association will contaminate me. This kind of food will contaminate me." Because we do not know, therefore we contact infections, sometimes suffer from disease. It is very simple to understand. Everyone's... Suppose one commits something criminal due to ignorance, due to ignorance. But in the court, when a man is criminal, in the court, if he says, the criminal, if he says that "I did not know the law," he'll not be excused. Ignorance is no excuse. Similarly, even a child, he does not know, he catches on fire*-the fire will burn. No excuse. The fire will not consider that "Here is a child. He does not know. Excuse." No. No excuse. So as there are stringent laws of nature or laws of the state, that because you do not know something, you have committed some wrong, you'll be excused-no, that is no, there is no possibility. You have committed something wrong out of ignorance, you must suffer. This is the law nature's law. You cannot... I have (given) many examples. Suppose you can not eat more. Out of ignorance, if you eat more, then you have to fast two days, three days, suffering, or you'll have some disease. You cannot violate any laws of the nature or any laws of the state anywhere. Wherever there is law, if you break it, then you'll suffer. This is ignorance.

*Therefore guru's business is... Every human being is suffering in this material world. Nobody can say that "I am not suffering." It is not possible. There must be suffering. There are three kinds of sufferings. (But) That out of ignorance also, a rascal is suffering, he's saying that "I am very happy." That is also another ignorance. There are three kinds of sufferings in this material world: ādhyātmic, ādhibautic, ādhidaivic. Suffering on account of my own body and mind-this suffering is not imposed by anyone else. I do it. The same thing, that I cannot digest but I eat more, so there must be dysentery. You must suffer. This is due to my body and mind. That is another one kind of suffering. Another suffering is imposed by other living entities. Just like your enemy or an animal*-or there are ants, mosquitos, flies, they are all causing suffering. You are killing them, and they are trying to give you suffering. This is called struggle. This is called ādhibautic, suffering given by other living entities. Suffering caused by myself, this is called ādhyātmic. And suffering caused by other living... And there are other sufferings, caused by the nature, superior power, ādhidaivic. All of a sudden, there is no rain, no rainfall, and now for want of rainfall, there is no food grain. Excessive heat, excessive chilly cold; earthquake, famine... So many, by natures, imposed by the natures. Flood. So there are three kinds of sufferings in the material world, and everyone is suffering either by one, two or three or..., but nobody can say that "I am completely free from suffering." That is not possible. And why this suffering? Due to ignorance. I do not know. I am committing sinful life, I am committing mistakes; *therefore I am suffering. Therefore guru's business is first to rescue his disciple from ignorance, ignorance. Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya. Everyone is suffering out of ignorance; therefore guru's business is to... Just like we go to a school. We go to a school, we send our children to a school. Why? To save him from suffering; *to get education. "If my son does not get education, he'll suffer in the future." The same process: to get him out of ignorance, to get him relieved from the suffering. Therefore, guru's business is ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākaya. So sufferings is due to ignorance. Ignorance is compared with darkness. So in the darkness how you can save one? By some light. So guru's business is to take the torchlight of knowledge and present before the ignorant or the disciple in darkness and that gives him, relieves him from the sufferings of darkness or ignorance. This is guru's business.

Then another verse says,

*tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet

*samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

[MU 1.2.12]



*It is Vedic injunction. Somebody was asking whether guru is absolutely necessary. Yes, absolutely necessary. That is the Vedic injunction. The Vedas say, tad*-vijñānārtham. Tad-vijñāna means spiritual knowledge. Spiritual knowledge; *for acquiring spiritual knowledge. Tad*-vijñānārtham. Sa-one; *gurum eva*-eva means must; *gurum*-to a guru. Must go to guru. Not "a" guru; *"the" guru. Guru is one. Because as it is explained by our Revatīnandana Mahārāja, guru is coming from the disciplic succession. What five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva instructed or Kṛṣṇa instructed, the same thing we are also instructing. Therefore there is no difference between instruction. Therefore guru is one. Although hundreds and thousands of ācāryas have come and gone, but the message is one. Therefore guru cannot be two. Real guru will not talk differently. Some guru says that "In my opinion, you should like this," and some guru will say, "In my opinion you'll do this"*-they are not guru; *they are all rascals. Guru has no "own" opinion. Guru has got only one opinion, the same opinion which was expressed by Kṛṣṇa, Vyāsadeva or Nārada or Arjuna or Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu or the Gosvāmīs. You'll find the same thing. Five thousand years ago, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa spoke Bhagavad*-gītā and Vyāsadeva wrote it, recorded it. Vyāsadeva does not say that "It is my opinion." Vyāsadeva writes, śrī bhagavān uvāca: "Whatever writing, it is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead." He's not giving his own opinion. Śrī bhagavān uvāca. Therefore he is guru. He is not misinterpreting the words of Kṛṣṇa. He's giving as it is. Just like a bearer, peon. Somebody has written you letter, the peon has got the letter. It does not mean he has to correct it or edit it or addition or... No. He'll present it. That is his duty. Then he is guru. He's honest. Similarly, guru cannot be two. Mind that. The person may be different, but the message is the same. Therefore guru is one.



*The Vedic instruction is, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Gurum eva, "one must." Eva means "must." Abhigacchet, this verb is used when there is the sense of "must." It never says "Go to a guru," but he says "Must approach the guru." Guru is one. Guru cannot be two. Gurum evābhigacchet. And we see also, practically, in the disciplic succession of guru, the same thing is spoken by the guru. Same thing. Repetition of the same subject matter, no other. Kṛṣṇa said that man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Just think of Me," man-manā. "Just become devotee of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. "Just worship Me and just offer your obeisances unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "Just surrender unto Me." You'll find this instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. The same thing was spoken by all the ācāryas. Rāmanujācārya also says the same, Madhvācārya says the same thing, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says same thing, the Gosvāmīs say the same thing, and we are also speaking the same thing. There is no difference. We do not interpret the words of Kṛṣṇa, that "In my opinion, Kurukṣetra means this body." This is rascaldom. The whole situation has been spoiled by these so-called rascal gurus who gives his own opinion. This is our plain declaration: Let any rascal guru come. We can convince him that he is not guru, because he is speaking differently. We can challenge any rascal. Just like somebody came here, he said that he's God, every one of us God. (aside:) Stop this. So I asked that "Just find out in the dictionary what is meaning of God. Let us see whether he is God." The dictionary, as soon as dictionary was consulted, the meaning of God is "the supreme being," meaning of God. So I asked him, "Are you supreme? If you cannot understand, then find out the meaning of supreme." Then when he consulted dictionary, the supreme, it is said "the greatest authority." So I asked him, "Are you the greatest authority?" The rascal could not answer. He does not know even the dictionary meaning, and he's claiming that he's God. This rascaldom is going on, whole world. Big, big rascal swamis, they say, "Why you are finding out God anywhere? You do not see so many rascal gods are loitering in the street?" This is going on. If you simply consult dictionary, you can understand what is the meaning of God. God is so cheap thing, huh? Supreme being. Are you supreme being? Supreme means the highest authority. Highest authority means nobody is equal to him, nobody is greater than him. That is supreme. So these rascals who are claiming to become God, is it a fact that nobody is equal to him, nobody is greater than him? There are so many.

*So this kind of guru, this kind of rascal, will not help you. Guru must come from the paramparā system by disciplic succession. Five thousand years or five millions of years, what was spoken by the supreme God or guru, the present guru also will say the same thing. That is guru. That is bona fide guru. Otherwise, he's not guru. Simple definition. Guru cannot change any word of the predecessor. There is one instance in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life. One gentleman, (he) is Vallabha Ācārya. He was very much devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He wrote one comment on Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, Subodhinī-ṭīkā, it is called. That is recognized, nice ṭīkā, comment. But he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was very great devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he simply said that "Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Caitanya, if You hear my comment on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, You'll find it is far better than Śrīdhara Svāmī's." Śrīdhara Svāmī is the very old commentator. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately rejected: "Oh, you are claiming that you have written something better than Śrīdhara Svāmī?" He chastised him. Svāmī means another... He sarcastically remarked, the word svāmī, Śrīdhara Swami, svāmī, another svāmī means "husband." So He said, svāmī jīva nahi mane besa bali guni(?): "I think one who does not recognize svāmī, he's a prostitute." He immediately said. "You do not recognize Śrīdhara Svāmī, then you are a prostitute. How can I hear from a prostitute?" He refused. Only word, that "I have written better than Svāmī." So this is the process of guru. You cannot disobey the previous ācārya or guru. No. You have to repeat the same thing. Not research. Sometimes rascals come, that "You are speaking the same thing. Why don't you speak something new by research work?" We say that we have no intelligence, we cannot make any research. We are... Guru more mūrkha dekhi koriyā vicāra [Cc. Ādi 7.71]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a great fool number one." So one who remains a great fool number one before his guru, he is guru. And one who says that "I'm advanced so much that I can speak better than my guru," then he's rascal. This is the process.

*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

[Bg. 4.2]



Kṛṣṇa said in the Fourth Chapter.



So guru is one. Guru cannot be two. As soon as you find two opinions of guru, either both of them are rascals, or one is still at least rascal. There cannot be two. This is guru. Another place it is said,

tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



*Who needs a guru? A third*-class, fourth-class man, ordinary man, doesn't require a guru. Guru, to keep a guru or to have a guru is not a fashion. One who is very serious to understand spiritual life, he requires a guru. Otherwise, there is no need of guru. Just like you keep a dog as a fashion, don't keep a guru. Guru means..., is a question of necessity. One must be very serious to understand what is spiritual life, what is God, what is my relation with God, how to act. When we are very much serious about this subject matter, then we require a guru. Don't go to a guru as a matter of fashion. That is useless. That is useless. Therefore śāstra says, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Because we have to go to guru and surrender there. Without surrendering, you cannot learn anything. If you want to challenge guru, it is not possible. Then you'll learn nothing. Tasmad guruṁ prapadyeta. Praṇipātena. So, just like Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru, he said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I am now surrendered to you." That is the process. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. To... Guru means Kṛṣṇa's representative, former ācāryas' representative. Kṛṣṇa's... All ācāryas are representative of Kṛṣṇa; *therefore guru should be offered the same respect as you offer to God. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **. Because guru is bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, or God, so if you surrender to guru, bona fide guru, that means you surrender to God. God is accepting your surrender through the guru. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo. If you surrender to guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] surrender. That somebody argues, "Where is Kṛṣṇa? I shall surrender." No. You surrender to His representative, then you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.



*So guru is the representative of God. Therefore the śāstra says, the authority says, sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair. Guru is as good as God. Here, in this Vyāsa-pūjā day, we are teaching or they are doing, offering respect to guru. That means they are learning how to offer respect to God. It is not personal affair; *it is required. Because they are trying to be God conscious, they must learn how to offer respect to God or God's representative. That is required. Sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair. In all the śāstra, Vedic literature, guru is described as good as God. But guru will never say that "I am God." The disciple's duty is to offer respect to guru as he offers respect to God. But guru will never say that "I am... Because my disciples are offering me respect as God, therefore I have become God." As soon as he thinks so, he becomes dog. He is no more God. Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī says... Why guru is offered respect like God? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Guru is offered the same respect as we offer respect to God. Just like in the morning. The other side, ārātrika was going on, offering to Kṛṣṇa, and this side was ārātrika was going on to offer respect to the spiritual master. The same respect. But guru will never say, and he's not that. Guru will never say, "Now I have become God." No. God does not become. God is always God. So God is God and guru is guru. But, as a matter of etiquette, God is the sevya God, worshipable God, and guru is the worshiper God. Just try to understand. Worshipable God and worshiper God. This is. Sevya bhagavān-sevaka bhagavān. Just like guru is addressed: "Prabhupāda." Prabhu means "the Lord" and pāda means "the position." "One who has taken the position of the Lord." The same thing: sākṣād-dharitvena, prabhupāda. These are the terms, one who is serious to study this science of God, they'll learn all these things. So one who is very serious to understand the science of God, for him a guru is required. Don't try to keep a guru as a matter of fashion, that it has become a fashion to accept somebody, some rascal as guru, and say that "I have got my guru." What kind of guru you have got? You are talking nonsense. Ācāryavān puruṣa veda. One who has accepted guru, he'll talk sense, where there is meaning. He'll never talk any nonsense. That is the sign that he has got guru. He has got the sacred thread. Yes, he's accepted by bona fide guru. That is the sign, sacred thread. So you are offering good respect to your spiritual master. That is very nice. You are very thankful. But at the same time we should remember that how to carry out the orders of the guru so that people may not think that you are talking nonsense. You must be very careful.

*So in the Bhagavad*-gītā also... I am reciting, citing various verses from various śāstras-Kaṭhopaniṣad, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now here is another verse. Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā, in the Bhagavad-gītā.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



So you have to learn from guru by three processes. What is that? First process is you must surrender. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Surrender. You have to find out such an exalted person where you can willingly surrender, "Yes." Therefore it is enjoined in the śāstras, before making a guru, try to study him, whether you can surrender there. Don't accept any guru all of a sudden as fanatic. No, don't do that. That is the injunction. And guru also must study the disciple who wants to become a disciple; *must study him, whether he's fit for becoming a disciple. This is the way of making relationship between guru and disciple. Everything is there provided we take them seriously. Then we can train up how to become bona fide disciple, how to find out bona fide guru, how to establish our relationship with guru and act accordingly and make our life successful. Because guru's business is ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Guru's business is to enlighten the disciple, because he's in darkness. In another place in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Parābhavaḥ, parābhavaḥ means defeat. Defeat. So whose defeat? Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto: one who is born rascal and fool. Everyone is born rascal and fool. Nobody, otherwise, if you are learned, if you are..., if you know things, then why do you go to a school and college and pass university? It is a fact. Animals. If we do not cultivate knowledge, then we are as good as animals. Now another animal is saying that there is no need of books, and he has become guru. But how you can get knowledge without authoritative studies of books and science and philosophy? But they are trying to avoid this. So imagine what kind of guru and what kind of disciple.



*So śāstra says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto. Abodha-jāto. Everyone is born rascal, fool. He has to be enlightened, he has to be given knowledge, and he has to receive knowledge to make his life perfect. Therefore parābhavaḥ means one who does not make his life perfect, he's being defeated. What is the defeat? Struggle for existence. We are trying to get better life. Here also, in this life also, we are struggling hard for getting better position. So real better position we do not know. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: saḥ amṛtatvāya kalpate. Here in this material world there is no better position because there is death. You may possess a very good better position, but you'll have to give it up. Either the better position will give up you, or ultimately you have to give up that better position. You cannot stay. Suppose you have earned millions of dollars, millions of pounds: "Now we have got good bank balance." You think, "Now I am in the better position." A little dysentery, or cholera, dysentery-finished, better position. Or the bank fails*-that better position gone. So there is no better position in this material world. It is a false. Therefore those who are trying to get better position in this material world, they are simply becoming defeated, because there is no better position. He's a rascal. He's thinking this is better position. What is better position? Then Bhagavad-gītā says the better position is amṛtatva. Saḥ amṛtatvāya kalpate: "Don't die. Keep your position firm." That is better position. So is there any science to give knowledge how one becomes immortal? Yes, there is. You can become immortal. Not in this material science; *not in the so*-called universities. But there is knowledge in the Vedic scripture by which you can become immortal. That is better position. No more death, no more birth, no more old age, no more disease. So guru's task is very great responsibility. He has to guide the disciple how to make him quite eligible candidate to get the perfect position, immortality, back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much. (end)



730823LE.LON

Lecture

-

London, August 23, 1973



*Prabhupāda: Today's subject matter is "What is Religion?" So we are reciting some verses from the Sixth Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, where the subject matter, dharma, is discussed. It is said that dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, it is Sanskrit word, and the English translation, generally, it is made as "religion." Religion is accepted as a kind of faith. But faith may be wrong or right-according to the different time, persons, climate, condition, so many consideration. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam. Dharma, or religion, means the law given by God. Simple formula. As there are laws given by the state, similarly, the supreme state, supreme governor is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. God means the supreme being, supreme person. So... Or the supreme authority. Supreme means the greatest authority. As in a state the greatest authority is the government, similarly, throughout the cosmic manifestation, throughout the whole creation, there must be some supreme authority. So that supreme authority is God, and whatever He gives, the rules and regulation, that is called religion. You cannot change it. That the law whimsically, you cannot change. Then you will be punishable. Similarly, the laws or the words (are) of the regulative principles given by God. That is religion. And if you do not follow it, then you'll be punished.



Actually, the Sanskrit word dharma means the constitutional position. We may try to understand what is the meaning of dharma. Just like fire. Fire means there must be heat and light. Without heat and light, there is no meaning of fire. If you say that we have got fire but there is no heat and no light, so what kind of fire it is? So that fire and light of, heat and light of fire is to be understood as dharma. You cannot change it. This is no possibility. Otherwise, there will be no meaning. Water, water is liquid. Any water, any parts of the world, when you take water, it is liquid; *therefore this liquidity is the dharma of water. You take anything. Actually, dharma means characteristic-anything you take. Just like I am speaking before this microphone. So if it does not produce the sound, then what kind of microphone it is? The sound production from the microphone is the dharma, is the religion, natural characteristic. So what is the natural characteristic of human being? The natural characteristic is that we serve the superior. That is natural characteristic. Either you become Christian or Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist, nobody can say that "I do not serve any superior." Nobody can say. One must serve. That is dharma. Faith, ritualistic*-I am today Hindu; I can accept the ritualistic process tomorrow of the Christian faith; *or a Christian may take another ritual*-but his business, to serve the superior, that does not change. Either you become Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. It is not that Hindus, they only serve in the office; *the Christian do not. No. The service is there. So actually the service is his dharma, not this rubberstamp, "Hindu," "Muslim," "Christian." No. That is designation. Actual dharma means the characteristic. If you take sugar, if you taste sugar, it is sweet. The sweetness is the characteristic of sugar. That is dharma. If you take chili, it is very hot. If you take a chili and if it is sweet, you immediately say, "Eh, this is not good chili," because there is no dharma. So dharma means characteristic. Here in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is said that,

*veda*-praṇihito dharmo

*hy adharmas tad*-viparyayaḥ

vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt

svayambhūr iti śuśruma



Therefore we have to understand dharma from scriptures. Veda, veda means the book of knowledge. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñānam. Jñāna. So we have to take knowledge from authorized scriptures, authorized lawbook. A big lawyer means who is quite aware of the laws of the state. Similarly, a religious person means who knows completely, at least partially also, the laws of God. That is dharmic. That is dharma. So what is God? You have to understand. Then what does He say? You have to understand, then you can execute actually what is religion. If you do not know what is government, what is the laws of the government, how you can become a good citizen? That is not possible. A good citizen, good citizen means who abide by the laws of the state. Similarly, a religious person means who abides by the order of God. This is dharma.



*So this question was raised by the servants of Yamarāja in the matter of Ajāmila Upākhyāna. And the Yamarāja, who's known as Dharmarāja, master of understanding religious principle, so he explained what is dharma. He said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam.

*dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam

na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ

*na siddha*-mukhyā asurā manuṣyāḥ

*kuto na vidyādhara*-caraṇādayaḥ

[SB 6.3.19]



*There are different planetary system, and in each and every planetary system, there are different types of living beings or human beings. As we have got on this planet different parts of the world, different parts of this globe, we have got different types of persons. We are talking of persons only, human being. Other living entities we are not taking into consideration. Because the dharma is meant for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. Religious system is there in the human society. Any civilized human society there is a system of religion*-it doesn't matter what is that religion. That is civilized human civilization. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. In the human society, in the civilized human society, if there is no conception of God, if there is no conception of God's order or God's law, that is not human society; *that is animal society. The cats and dogs or other animals, big, big animals, they have no sense what is the law of God, what is God, how to execute that. That is not expected there. Take, for example, in your country, the law is "Keep to the left" while you drive your car. That is the order of the state. But if you do not obey the state order, instead of driving on the left side, if you drive on the right side, you immediately become a criminal, punishable. But the same right and left consideration, if a dog or a cat or a cow violates, instead of going on the left side, if he passes*-he has no fault. He's animal. He's animal. Or a child-if he violates law. If I take anything without your permission, that is called stealing. If I enter your house without your permission, that is trespassing. So these are laws, and it is applicable to the grown-up men, intelligent men, civilized men. It must be. If you want to enter somebody's house, and if you see the signboard, "No admission without permission," you'll never go there, because you are civilized. But a cat and dog will enter. A child will enter. Therefore these laws of dharma or religious system is meant for the civilized human being, not for the uncivilized cats and dogs. No. Therefore when a civilized man, so-called civilized man, has no knowledge of God, no knowledge of the laws of God, it is simply animal society, that's all. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. They are animals. They are not to be considered as human being. This is dharma. This is religion. You cannot violate the laws of God. You cannot disobey the laws of God. You cannot say that "I do not know the laws of God." You must know. Just like a good citizen, you must know what is the law of the state. If you say in the court, "My lord, I did not know this law," that is not excuse. You'll not be excused. As a citizen, good citizen, you are expected. Similarly, we must know what is dharma, what is God. That is humanity.



*So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā,

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that when there is too much disobedience in the matter of law of the Supreme Lord, adharma, adharmasya abhyutthānam... Godlessness, without any knowledge of God, without any knowledge of the God's order, that is called dharmasya glānir, discrepancies in the matter of discharging the order of God. Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. At that time, God advents or descends. He descends personally, He descends by His representative, by His son, or by His name also. Because they are all identical. God, His representative, His name, His form, His activities, everything in relationship to God, that is also God. This evening we are discussing. Actually this world is also God. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaro. Viśvam means the whole universal creation. Because it is creation of God*-God has created-therefore the whole universe, the whole creation is also God, although it appears different from God. For example, just like the sun and the sunlight or sunshine. Although apparently different-sun is different from the sunshine-still, sunshine is also sun. Without sun, how there can be light in the sunshine? So in broader sense there is nothing but God; *everything God. This is explained in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa: ekadeśa sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā sarvaiva brahmaṇaḥ śakti, tathedaṁ brahmaṇaḥ śakti. As the fire is placed, is situated in one place, but it is distributing the heat and light, similarly, the Supreme Lord, although He's in His abode, the Goloka Vṛndāvana, still, by His energy, He is all*-pervading. All-pervading. Everywhere, there is God. The sunshine..., the sun is ninety millions miles away from us. But as soon as the sunshine is there, we can understand there is sun. So if we are thoughtful, then we can understand what is God and how His energies are acting. That we can understand, exactly like that. As the fire is situated in one place but the heat and light is working, similarly, you can understand the existence of God by the energy of God, the energy, how the energy of God is working, you can understand God. And the energies are acting under certain laws given by God. Just like the sunshine. There is a particular time, at this hour, the sunshine will be visible. At night if you want sunshine, it is not possible. However advanced you may be in science, however scientific machineries you have discovered, but you cannot get sunshine in this night, dark night. No scientist can say, "Now we have discovered a scientific method by which at night also sun will rise." No. That is not possible. Of course, they sometimes say like that, rascallike, but that is not possible. You cannot change the law of God. If you want sunshine, then you have to wait til morning, when by the grace of God, by the order of God, sun will rise: you'll get sunshine. Not by your scientific method.



*Similarly, here it is stated, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ [SB 6.3.19]. Ṛṣaya, ṛṣaya means great sages. Ṛṣaya, great sages, great saintly persons or great thoughtful philosophers, even scientists, they cannot create dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād. Sākṣād: directly. Dharma is directly made by God. Not that because one is very great saintly person, great philosopher, great scientist, he can make a kind of religious system. No. That is not possible. That will not be religion. That may be something else, but that is not religion. Religion must be given by God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād [SB 6.3.19]. Denied here in this verse: na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ. Vidur, vidur means knowing; *ṛṣaya, great saintly person. Na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ. Devāḥ means demigods. There are very, very big powerful demigods, just like Indra, Candra, the sun. Sun is also demigod. The sun is distributing the light, that is by the order of God, not independently. Anything you find, they are abiding by the laws of, or by the order of God. The whole total cosmic manifestation which is called material energy, that is also acting by the order of God. Many śāstras, we have to take knowledge from the śāstras. And if you judge from good sense and intelligence, you'll have to admit what is said in the śāstra. Now just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. We are very much astonished to see the activities of the material nature wonderfully working. But we do not know that behind the material nature there is God. Under His direction the material nature is working. That is intelligence. Material nature, matter... Matter cannot act independently. That is not possible. Just like this microphone is a combination of material things-some iron, some other metals. But it has been adjusted, created by some living entity. Not that matter has automatically come into intermingling with this other and become a microphone. That is not possible. Take any machine. It may be very wonderful machine. Just like nowadays the wonderful machine is computer. What is called?

Bhagavān: Computer.



Prabhupāda: So it acts very wonderfully, but there must be a expert man to push the button. Otherwise, it will not act. Without that expert man, this wonderful machine is lump of iron. That's all. It has no value. Take any machine. Similarly, this huge, gigantic machine of cosmic manifestation where innumerable planets are floating in the sky just like cotton swabs, don't think that it is so acting automatically. No. There is direction behind it, or there is brain behind it. And that brain, that big brain, is God. God is also like us, a being, but He is Supreme Being. As we are being, we have got our brain, we have got our creative power, we can do something, we can manufacture something like airplane, sputnik, but God has got big brain. We may float one mechanic airplane in the air, but by the God's brain, millions and trillions of heavy planets are floating in the air. That is God's brain. He has got also brain; He has got also creative power. We have also creative power, but we have got little and He has got supreme power. That is the difference. God means the supreme brain, the supreme powerful, and we are teenies, we are subordinate; therefore our position is to abide by the orders of God. That is actually religion. That's all. Less powerful men serve the more powerful. That is the nature. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. Just like human being, they are misusing their brain by eating poor animals. Because human being is stronger he's eating the weaker. So when a human being... [break]



*...the fingers are little, little fingers. So on my order the fingers are working, not by the order of finger I am working. Similarly, you cannot bring God in your business. But you must be engaged in God's business. That is religion. That is religion. It is very simple formula. So God is great and we are teeny small living entities. Our only business is to serve God. We are serving, any one of us. That means if you do not serve God, then you have to serve māyā. You cannot be without service. Māyā is another agent of God. Just like if you do not obey the laws of the state as a free man, then you will be pushed into the prison house as a criminal, and you have to abide by the orders. You cannot say, "No, I'll not obey the orders of the state." That is not possible. If you voluntarily do not abide by the orders of the state, then you will be forced to abide by the state in the prison house. Similarly, those who have declared independence, so-called independence-nobody can be independent*-that "I do not believe in God, I do not want any type of religion or serving God," such persons will be under the guidance or under the influence or power of the material nature, māyā. Māyā-mohita. Tribhir guṇa-māyāir bhāvair. We are now illusioned by the influence of māyā, material energy, in three ways: by goodness, by passion, and by ignorance. But instead of serving God, we are now serving māyā. And so long we shall be going on serving māyā, or serving in the prison house, we cannot be happy.

*So this material world is the prison house of God. Anyone who is living in this prison house, they are all prisoners. It may be demigod, as it is said, deva. Na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ na siddha*-mukhyā asurā manuṣyāḥ. We are human being. There are other beings. They are called asuras. They are very powerful, asuras, but godless. Just like nowadays some portion of the world is occupied by the asuras. They are materially very powerful, but they are asuras because they do not believe in God. Take, for example, Russia. Of course, the mass of people, they are not like that. A fragmental portion of Russian people, they are godless. So you cannot be godless. If you become godless, if you become without religion, if you become without any intentions to abide by the orders of God, then you will be punished. This is nature's law. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn that daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Every one of us is serving under the order of māyā, illusory energy, material energy, and we are becoming tired, sometimes very much fatigued, every one of us. Nobody is satisfied, cannot be satisfaction. Because in the prison house you cannot expect any comfortable life. That is not possible because it is meant for reformation, and there is punishment, and there is injunction. You have to abide by that. Similarly, in this material world also, all of us, we are prisoners because actually we have disobeyed the orders of God. That is our position.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. We have created so many dharmas or duties, so-called duties, social duty, political duty, humanitarian duty, so many. But we are violating God. So many humanitarians, philanthropists, they are thinking of good welfare for the human being, but they are not thinking any welfare for the poor animals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse under some plea. So they are all punishable because every living being is the son of the Supreme Person. Bhagavad-gītā says. We also address the Supreme Being, God, as "Father." Father means every one of us, we are sons. But we are disobedient son. One who is obedient son, he is perfect. One who is disobedient son, he is imperfect. Therefore we have to ask. Father is giving food even to the disobedient son. He is so kind. So God is always kind upon us. But we are suffering because we have forgotten God. This is our position. Therefore God comes, Kṛṣṇa comes, and teaches us Bhagavad-gītā, how to become God conscious, how to become obedient to God. And at last He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].

*Now this śaraṇāgati, how to surrender to God, you have to learn. Therefore, as you have to learn something from a superior person, therefore it is recommended that how to learn... It is said, svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ [SB 6.3.20]. In the śāstra it is recommended that twelve great personalities, you have to learn from them what is actually dharma, how to become obedient to the principles laid down by God. So they are described in the śāstra as twelve principle authorities. Who are they? Svayambhū, Lord Brahmā. Nārada, Nārada Muni. Then Śaṁbhu, Lord Śiva. Kumāra, the four Kumāras, Sanat*-kumārādi. Kapila, the great sage Kapila. Manu, Manu. The original Manu is the emperor of the universe. That Manu. Then Prahlāda Mahārāja, Hiraṇyakaśipu's son, he is also mahājana. We have to learn how to execute dharma from these great personalities. Prahlādo janako bhīṣmaḥ. King Janaka and Bhīṣma, the grandfather Bhīṣma, and Bali Mahārāja and Vaiyāsaki, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, like that. Just like if you want to learn something, you have to approach some expert in the matter, similarly, if you want to learn what is dharma, how to execute it, then you have to approach such gurus or their representative. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. So you cannot approach anyone else. As they are recommended... Just like government department. If you want to get some information, you have to go to a particular department and you have to learn it, similarly, if you actually want to know what is dharma, then you have to accept the disciplic succession of either of these great twelve personalities. That is dharma. Then it is said,

dvādaśaite vijānīmo

dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ

guhyaṁ viśuddhaṁ durbodhaṁ

yaṁ jñātvāmṛtam aśnute



*The same word, amṛtam. In the modern civilization they do not know what is amṛtam. Amṛtam means immortality. If you execute dharma perfectly under the direction of the authorities, then the result will be that you will get immortal life. Amṛtam aśnute. This very word is used. The matter is guhyam. Dvādaśaite vijānīmaḥ. These twelve personalities will... Yamarāja is speaking to the assistant of Yamarāja, that "All these twelve men, we..." He also included. Yamarāja is also one of the authorities. So he says "We twelve personalities," dvādaśaite vijānīmo dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ, "we know." And dharmam means bhāgavataṁ dharma. Bhāgavatam means in relationship with God. Because I already explained, dharma means the laws given by God. Therefore dharma's another name is bhāgavataṁ dharmam, means "activities or duties in terms of our relationship with God." That is called dharma. Dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ. Dharma means bhāgavata*-dharma, no other dharma. In relationship with God. We must know "Who is God, what is my relationship with God, how I have to act in that relationship and what is the perfection of life." These things we must know.



*Otherwise we are animals. Therefore it is called dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. A person may be materially very qualified, but if he does not know what is God, what is his relationship with God, he has no qualification. That is stated. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Those who are unaware of God and His service, he cannot, one cannot have any good qualification. That is not good qualification. So therefore it is said here that guhyaṁ viśuddhaṁ durbodham, very confidential. The activities of dharma, very guhyam, very confidential. Guhyaṁ viśuddham. Viśuddham means... Dharma does not mean any material activities. Dharma means spiritual activities, viśuddham, pure, pure of the contamination of the material qualities. Guhyam viśuddhaṁ durbodham. Durbodham means very difficult to understand. Anything which is very difficult to understand, if you go to a superior authority, it becomes simplified. Just like you do not know law. Suppose you are in need of some legal protection, but you do not know "Under which legal protection I will be safe." You have to approach a good lawyer. You cannot say that "I'll defend myself. I will do." No, that is not possible. When you are diseased, you have to consult the physician. Therefore if you want to know what is dharma, then you have to approach these twelve great personalities. Otherwise it will remain durbodham, very difficult to understand. Although it is very pure, because I am impure, I will not be able to understand. Guhyaṁ visuddhaṁ dur..., yaṁ jñātvā amṛtam aśnute.

And if you are fortunate enough to understand what is religion, then you become immortal; *next life is immortal life. This is the purpose of dharma. We should not be satisfied that "I have got a dharma made by somebody, my some relative or somebody else." That is not dharma. Dharma means to understand God. It doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim. It doesn't matter. If you think that by your principle, you have understood God and you have learned how to love God, and you have learned how to obey God, that dharma is perfect. That religious system is perfect. It may go on under any name, it doesn't matter. But if you have achieved the result, that is wanted. Just like if you pass your M.A. examination. It doesn't matter whether you pass it from London University or Calcutta University or Berlin University. You have passed your examination. That will be taken into consideration. So similarly, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That system of religion is perfect by which one can learn what is God and how to love God. That is perfect. But you are following very nicely dharma, your so-called dharma, but you have no knowledge of God, no love for God*-it is simply wasting time. It is simply wasting time. Therefore dharma means to understand God and to abide by His order. To learn this scientific method, one has to approach...

etāvān eva loke 'smin

puṁsāṁ dharmaḥ paraḥ smṛtaḥ

*bhakti*-yogo bhagavati

*tan*-nāma-grahaṇādibhiḥ



*So dharma means first*-class dharma which teaches the followers how to know God, how to love Him. That is first-class religion. So etāvān eva loke 'smin puṁsāṁ dharmaḥ paraḥ smṛtaḥ. Paraḥ means superior, not inferior. Or transcendental. So what is that? Bhakti-yogo bhagavati. Bhakti-yoga. This bhakti-yoga, devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is dharma. Bhakti-yogo bhagavati tan-nāma grahaṇādibhiḥ. And it begins by chanting the holy name of God. This is dharma. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching the saṅkīrtana movement just to make the whole world to know God and how to love God. Thank you very much. (end)





730826LE.LON

Lecture

-

London, August 26, 1973



(maṅgalācaraṇa prayers. Prabhupāda says, "Nobody sit backing the Deity," in the middle of prayers)



*Prabhupāda: Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here and participating with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So you have already some understanding about this movement. Still, as you have kindly come here, I shall try to explain what is this movement. This movement means that to awaken the original consciousness of the living entity. Living being or living entity, there are varieties, 8,400,000 varieties. There are nine hundred thousand varieties in the water, and two million varieties as trees and plants. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And then insects, reptiles, there are eleven hundred thousand varieties. Then there are one million varieties of birds. Pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. Then beasts, three million. Three million varieties of animals, beasts, four-legged beasts, and then there are four hundred thousand forms of the human being, out of which the civilized men, they are taken into consideration. All other varieties, they are in the lower grade of life. They cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not possible. It is in the human form of body when the consciousness is developed. In the tree also, there is consciousness. It is now scientifically proved. When you cut tree or take its leaves, it feels, and that is recorded in the machine. This machine was discovered by Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose, a great physicist in Calcutta. So everyone has got consciousness, there is no doubt about it. But the developed consciousness is found in the human being. And the topmost development of consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we are appealing to the people in general all over the world that "Now you have got developed consciousness than the lower animals, birds, trees, beasts. Now you develop further so that you can awaken your original consciousness, which is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your life is successful." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



You have got already consciousness. Just like a child, a boy has got consciousness. He's sent to a school, colleges. He develops his consciousness. He can understand scientific truths. And then he becomes a very big man, or successful man. As there are such consideration in the material world, similarly, the development of highest consciousness is spiritual consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Spiritual consciousness should be cultivated, first of all understanding that we are all spiritual being; we are not this material body. That we have to first of all understand. The, within this material body there is the spirit soul, and that spirit soul, out of ignorance it is desiring material sense gratification; *therefore he has to transmigrate into different types of bodies. And as soon as we accept one material body*-it doesn't matter whether it is king's body or dog's body; *it doesn't matter*-because the spirit soul has accepted this material body, he has to undergo the threefold miserable conditions of material existence. This is the problem. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises that mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. Our material understanding of pains and pleasure (is) on account of this body. When the body feels cold, we cover. When the body feels very warm, we uncover. The covering and uncovering is due to seasonal changes. Therefore this material world means changing always. It is called jagat. Jagat means always changing. On account of the material world's changing, we feel pains and pleasure on this material body. Kṛṣṇa advises, therefore, that mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. The material pains and pleasures, they are on account of this body. But we are not this body; we are spirit soul. Our main business is how to elevate the soul to its original position of eternity. That is our problem.

*These things are very nicely explained in the book known as Bhagavad*-gītā. We are presenting this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and we hold our class also in this hall daily in the morning. So we invite all ladies and gentlemen to come here and try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. We have got this opportunity of human form of life. We can understand what I am, what you are. We are not this body; we are spirit soul. As spirit soul we are all eternal, blissful, and cognizant. But on account of this material covering we are suffering the material conditions, threefold kinds of miserable life. It is very difficult, little, but this is the problem. We have to understand this; otherwise, we are missing the opportunity of this human life. If we neglect, then we are just like animals. The animals have no concern to understand this philosophy of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I am encaged. Somehow or other I have to get out of this entanglement and be again reinstalled in my original consciousness and be happy, having eternal life, blissful life and full of knowledge." This is the problem. But people have become so dull and rascal that they do not even care to understand this philosophy of life, that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul." Actually, even one's daily life, one can understand that he is different from this body. Just like every one of us, we had a child's body, a boy's body, a youth's body. Now I am old man, but I can remember that I had a body, a small body, baby's body. I remember personally when I was six months old I was lying down on my eldest(?) sister's lap. She was knitting. I still remember. So then I got another body, another body, another body, and according to development of body I had different consciousness, just like child's consciousness is different from the father's consciousness. So we are actually getting different types of body every moment, and the consciousness is changed also according to the body. This is a fact. But I remember that I had such and such body, I was doing such foolish things when I was a child. All these things I remember. Therefore I, the person, the soul, is existing, although the bodies are not existing. This is a fact. Those bodies, my childhood body, my boyhood body, my youthhood body, they are no longer existing. It is a fact. I have got now a different body, but I remember that I possessed such and such bodies. Therefore the conclusion is that, in spite of change of body, the spirit soul remains the same eternally. Similarly, when I shall change this body, I shall get another body. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptir. That is called transmigration of the soul.

But unfortunately there is no education on this spiritual knowledge in any school, college, although there are books. They can read, they can understand the constitutional position of the soul. But there is no arrangement. Perhaps this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only institution which is teaching people that he is not this body; *he's spirit soul*-he's different from body and he's transmigrating from one body to another, birth and death. Actually, the spirit soul has no birth and death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The spirit soul is eternal. It does not take birth or it dies. The body is changing. The change of the body is known as birth and death. We are eternal; therefore nobody wants to die, because he is eternal by constitution. He doesn't like to change, but he's forced to change by some power. That is understanding, that "I do not wish to die. What is that force that obliges me to accept death? I do not wish to become old man, but there is a power which is forcing me to accept old age." This is the problem. Unfortunately we have given up the real problem of life. We are very much embarrassed with the temporary existence of this body, say for some years, fifty years or hundred years. But as we are eternal, we are not taking care of the eternal soul, what is its need. But when a person is developed, his spiritual consciousness automatically develops. At that time, he is no more satisfied with the comforts of the material body. In the Western country, that feeling is now very prominent because there are so many confused, frustrated young men who are known as hippies. They are not satisfied with the ways of life as their fathers and grandfathers are living. They are protesting rather. That means there is spiritual starvation. Therefore we see also as soon as some swami or yogi comes from India, they flock together. They go there to receive some message, because the hankering is already there. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now you should take advantage of this hankering and the movement (of) Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is for your profit. You want something spiritual, and here is the spiritual movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply you have to study this movement very carefully and with intelligence. Then you'll understand that this is the thing we are hankering after. This is the position.

*So we are opening centers all over the world. In America we have got about fifty centers, and in your Europe we have got about half a dozen or more than, dozen centers, including France, Germany, Amsterdam, England, and Ireland, Scotland. So this is a new center opened by us. This house has been very kindly given to us by George Harrison. He is a nice boy. He is taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have got good facilities now to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So we shall simply request you to take advantage of this center. We are not charging anything. You haven't got to pay anything. If you come in the morning and take part with us, we hold class. We are engaged twenty*-four hours in this temple, but especially we hold class in the morning from seven to eight, and other classes, ārātrika also. We perform six times ārātrika, bhoga. We have got twenty-four hours engagement. So at any time you can come. We have got books. Our program is for publishing sixty books. Now we have already published about twenty books, big, big books, four hundred pages. So if you understand, if you want to understand this movement through philosophy, science, and good logic, argument, we have got sufficient stock to convince you how this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is important. But suppose you are not interested in reading or you cannot read, cannot understand philosophy, we have got a very simple method: chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

*So either you become a scholar or you become an ordinary man, you can take advantage of this movement, and there is no need of qualifying yourself. We don't say that first of all you qualify yourself, then come here. No. Any condition, even a child can take part. If you come here, you'll see. When kīrtana goes on, even small children, they also take part. It is so nice movement. And by taking part in this movement, automatically you feel some ecstasy, spiritual ecstasy. Then you begin to dance. We don't ask you to dance, but the chanter automatically dances. These are the spiritual significance of this movement, and anyone is invited. There is no restriction for any caste, creed and color. Because God is one, and everyone, according to our philosophy, every living entity... There are, as I have already explained, 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, said that "I am the seed*-giving father of all the living entities." So we have no discrimination between even man or animal. Animals are also accepted as the sons of the Supreme. But they are differently dressed. We are simply changing dress. On account of changing dress, we think that we are dying and taking birth. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. Just this verse we were discussing this morning. So all living entities are sons of God, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore those who are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are called paṇḍita, learned. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A paṇḍita sees equally everyone.

*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*That is paṇḍita*-when we can see. That is actually spiritual existence.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*A devotee acquires all these qualification. He acquires... First qualification: he understands that he is not this material body, but he's spirit soul. That is first understanding. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ. And the symptoms of that condition of life, that "I am not this material body. I am spirit soul," na śocati na kāṅkṣati. At... In that position, for material gain and loss he's not interested. It is not that a brahma-bhūtaḥ, a spiritually realized person, if he all of a sudden... That we have got all of a sudden this nice house. It is 220,000-pound-worth. We do not expect to get such a nice house or such money. But sometimes it comes, actually. We are maintaining such hundred centers. But they have been given by the public. Kṛṣṇa sends. So because we have got such nice house, not that we have got this house... Of course, we are very much pleased because we are now able to accommodate Kṛṣṇa here, install the Deity and conduct the temple worship. That way we are happy. But not from material point of view: "Now we have got nice house." No. We can lie down on the street. So na kāṅkṣati. But Kṛṣṇa sends for the facility of our business. Kṛṣṇa gives us all facilities, that's a fact. Although we did not endeavor for constructing this house or so many other houses, but Kṛṣṇa sends us money, Kṛṣṇa sends us the means how to have nice house, how to accommodate the devotees nicely, how to have nice cars also, nice food, everything. There is no scarcity. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa conscious people... We have no business. We are not professional men. Still, we are living better than any ordinary man. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Kṛṣṇa says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ [Bg. 10.10], yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. He knows, just like a father knows the innocent child's needs. A small child, innocent child, simply dependent on the father or mother. The father, mother knows what this child requires now for his comfort. So father, mother supplies.



So if you depend on Kṛṣṇa, because He's the supreme father, fully, then all your needs... He's already supplying you all the needs of your life. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is the distinction between God and ordinary being. There are... God is also a living being like you and me. He's also a person, as you are person, I am person. But the difference is that one person is providing all the necessities of unlimited persons. And we unlimited persons, we are dependent on God. This is our philosophy. Another philosophy is that everything belongs to God; *nothing belongs to us. That's a fact. Therefore as sons of God, everyone has got the right to use father's property. But he should not take more than he needs. That is our philosophy. If one takes more than what he needs, then he becomes a criminal. So similarly, we can live very comfortably on this planet, because this planet belongs to God. We should not designate ourself as "Englishman," as "American," as "Indian," as "African," and fight amongst themselves. We should always know that we are all sons of God. The property is God's. We can use whatever we need by the grace of God*-the supply is there; *there is no question of scarcity*-and thus save your time, be peaceful, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. [break]

Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Suppose you are eating. You can eat what you can digest. That you know yourself how much you can eat. But if after eating you take bunch of food for stocking at home, that is not allowed. You eat as much as you like. So your needs you can know. You haven't got to take instruction what is your need.



Guest: That is one aspect, but food is only one commodity. The world is very worried about far more than one commodity at the moment. What about all these needs of materials, of raw materials...? These are far more important than food.



Devotee: He says that food is only one need of the living being, but there are many other needs in today's society.



*Prabhupāda: No. You have got only four needs. You want food, you want shelter, you want sense gratification, and you want defense. That's all. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithun. These needs are there even in the animals. They also eat, they also sleep, they have also sex life, and they also defend in their own way. So you need these four things. So you can arrange for these four things, but not extraordinarily. People are increasing their needs artificially; *therefore they are in trouble. And as soon as there is accumulation of more things... If you accumulate more than your need, I also imitate to accumulate more than my need, there is competition. That competition is going on. And that is the cause of war. Those who are aware of the history, the two big wars in your Europe was started by German people because they are very much envious of the English people. The Germans, they could not do business throughout the whole British Empire. We know, Indians. So they are very much envious of these British people, and therefore they started two big wars, world war. So if we collect more... Now the British Empire is finished. So if we collect more, if you want to acquire more, then other becomes jealous. And in this way, our jealousies increase, and that is the cause of war, that is the cause of fight. But if you are satisfied with your minimum or maximum needs, nobody will be jealous. Just like an elephant is eating forty kilos of foodstuff at a time. We cannot eat even one*-fourth kilo, but we are not envious of the elephant because we know he needs to eat so much. Neither the elephant is envious to us. So whatever you need you can collect, you can eat-but don't take more. Then according to the God's law, you become criminal, you are punishable. That is God's law. [break] It is a common sense. You eat; *I eat. It is a common philosophy. So I must eat what I need and you must eat what you need. That's not a very big philosophical problem. Everyone knows what you eat. But don't eat more. Suppose I can eat so much. And if I eat more, then I get indigestion. That is the punishment of the laws of nature. I get dysentery. Then I'll have to starve for three days because I've eaten more. So yuktāhāra*-vihārasya yoga bhavati siddhitaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said if you want to be a yogi or spiritualist, you should not take more than what you can digest, what can you eat. Yuktāhāra. You can satisfy your hunger, but according to yogic principle. Or from health point of view, even if you can eat so much, you can understand that "I can eat so much," you should not eat the whole thing. You should eat half. And one fourth you shall fill up with water, and one fourth you should leave vacant so that there may be ventilation, your digestion will be easily done. This is Āyurvedic law. Even if you think that you can eat so much, you should not voluntarily eat so much. You should eat half, and one-fourth you should fill up with water, and one-fourth you keep vacant for air ventilation. Then there will be no disease. It is hygienic principle. And as soon as you eat more than what you can digest, you become diseased. That means you are punished. Similarly, in every action you can have your portion as you need, but don't take more. Then it is helpful to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yuktāhāra vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi.



Devotee: The gentleman asks, "How do we apply that internationally?"



Prabhupāda: It is a international society. We are picking up men of this mentality, not that the whole world will be followers. That we do not expect. But there are men all over the world who like this movement; therefore we say international society. And actually it is happening. We are picking up our devotees from all parts of the world, so therefore it is international.



Guest: Thank you very much.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. All right, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





730907LE.STO

Lecture at Upsala University Faculty

-

Stockholm, September 7, 1973



*Prabhupāda: So I shall try to discuss Bhagavad*-gītā, Thirteenth Chapter, in which nature, the enjoyer, and consciousness is described. Śrī arjuna uvāca. Arjuna belonged to the royal family of the Pāṇḍavas, and he was friend of Kṛṣṇa. So there was a fight between two groups of cousin-brothers, the Kauravas and the Pāṇḍavas. So Arjuna... Kṛṣṇa was requested by both the parties to join either of them, but Kṛṣṇa decided not to take part in the fighting because both of them were equally related to Him. So after all, Kṛṣṇa divided His soldiers one side and Himself another side with the condition that if He joins, then He would not fight. So Arjuna preferred to take Kṛṣṇa on his side, and the other party, Duryodhana, he decided to take Kṛṣṇa's soldiers. So while just the fighting was to begin, Arjuna declined to fight because the other party were all his relatives, friends, brothers, brother's son, nephew, teacher and grandfather. So Arjuna took compassion, that "I don't want victory. Better not to fight." So that is the cause of describing the science of Bhagavad-gītā before Arjuna, just to induce him to act as a dutiful soldier. This is the background of Bhagavad-gītā.



So there were many questions and answers. There are seven hundred verses. So we shall discuss this evening about the nature, the enjoyer, and the consciousness.

śrī arjuna uvāca

prakṛtiṁ puruṣaṁ caiva

*kṣetraṁ kṣetra*-jñam eva ca

etad veditum icchāmi

jñānaṁ jñeyaṁ ca keśava



*Those who have got this copy, it is page 619. Arjuna wanted to know prakṛti, the nature, the material nature, and puruṣam. Puruṣam means the enjoyer, the living entities. Here in this material world every living entity is trying to enjoy this material nature. Prakṛtiṁ puruṣaṁ caiva kṣetram. Kṣetram means field of activity, and kṣetra*-jñam means the knower of the field. Just like an agricultural field, the field is there and the cultivator is there. The cultivator knows that "It is my field of activity." So he's to be supposed as kṣetra-jñam, one who knows about his field of activities. Etad veditum icchāmi. Because Kṛṣṇa has been accepted as the teacher. First of all, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna were talking as friends. But when Arjuna saw it that friendly talking will not make any solution of the problem, so at that time, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, and that "I become Your disciple," śiṣyas te 'ham śādhi māṁ (tvāṁ) prapannam, "and I surrender unto You." That is the relationship between teacher and the student. The student must receive knowledge submissively, not by challenge. Therefore, one has to select a teacher where one can submit. That is the process. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Teacher must be approached with submission. Tad viddhi praṇipātena. Praṇipāt means submission; and paripraśnena, then question; *and sevayā, and service also. These three things are the basic principle of receiving knowledge. So submission means I must approach somebody who is actually in better position or higher position. Otherwise, what is the use of approaching? Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. And sevā means service. You cannot challenge. You approach such person whose instruction you shall receive. You can inquire submissively, but you cannot challenge. That is not allowed in Vedic system. Samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. Therefore before selecting a teacher, you must decide whether you can submit there. If you cannot submit there, don't approach, don't waste time. So that is the process. And Arjuna submitted to Arjuna, uh, Kṛṣṇa.



*So there are many questions. Here is another question: "Kṛṣṇa, I want to know this material nature and the living entities who are trying to enjoy the resources of this material nature." This whole world, every living entity, even birds and beasts, they are also trying to lord it over the material nature, what to speak of human being. They are trying to overcome the stringent laws of material nature by so many scientific improvements, but still, they are under material nature. That is the conclusion of Bhagavad*-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. This material nature is called māyā, energy. Actually, it is the energy, energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. From Vedic literature, we get information: God has got many potencies or energies.

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate

*svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca

na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate

*na tat*-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate

[Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]



These are the Vedic information. God means na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do; *He has simply to desire. I think in your Christian Bible also it is said, "God said 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." He has to simply desire. Other things will be done by His energies. Just like big man, a king or president, his simply sanction order-"This must be done"*-the things will be done by the subordinates, by... He has go so many energies, secretaries. So why not for God, the Supreme Being, God? So therefore the Vedic instruction is, God has nothing to do, practically. Simply His desire is sufficient. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. There is nobody equal to Him or above Him. Everyone must be below, subordinate. That is Vedic instruction. And that has been selected or that has been concluded, who is that Supreme Being. That we also get from Vedic information. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: that Supreme Being means Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa, the word, means "all-attractive." It is not that God is attractive for the Hindus or God is attractive for the Muslims or the Christians. No. If He is God at all, then He must be attractive for all. That is the meaning of the word Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive." So that is very nice word. Actually, God has no name, but we call Him by different holy names according to His activity. Just like we believe that God is great. So this is fact. The Vedic instruction is also there, na tasya samaś cābhkyadhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody is equal, nobody is greater than Him." Therefore God is great. Now who is that great? That is decided: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Īśvaraḥ means controller. That is the exact equivalent for the word God. God means controller, supreme controller. So that supreme controller means He has nobody else to control Him. Here, in this material world or anywhere, we find one controller, he is controlling, but he is also being controlled. He is not absolute controller. Here we find some, say, a president, he's controlling the state, but he's also being controlled by popular votes. If the popular votes are against him, he cannot control any more. So here, you just analyze anyone; *he may be controller, but at the same time he is controlled. Not that absolute controller. Nobody you can find. So if in this way you go on searching out where a person is not only controlled, controller, but He is not controlled by anyone, that is God. This is the simple definition of God. God controls everyone or everything, but He is not controlled by anyone. That is God. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1].



And He has got form; *He's a person. He's not imperson. Because as soon as you speak of controller, it cannot be impersonal. Controller must be a person. He must have brain, He must have desire, He must have capacity to give orders. So many things. So therefore the Vedic information is the Supreme Absolute Truth is a person. He's not impersonal. The impersonal realization of God is realization of His different potencies. Just like this material world, this is the manifestation of one of the potencies of God. He has got many potencies. So all the many potencies have been grouped into three: the material potency, the spiritual potency, then the marginal potency, between the material and spiritual. The spiritual potency we can understand. Just like I am speaking. I am speaking means I am spiritual being. I am speaking. This material body is my covering, just like shirt and coat. So the... Now I'm existing. Somehow or other, I've been encaged in this material body, but I am spirit soul. That is spiritual potency. And as this material world is made of material ingredients, similarly, there is another world. That information you can get from Bhagavad*-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. There is another nature, another manifestation of nature. That is spiritual. What is the distinction? The distinction is when this material world will be annihilated, that will remain. Just like I am spirit soul. When this body is annihilated, I am not annihilated. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. After the destruction of this body, the soul is not destroyed. Soul remains there in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. So that mind, intelligence and ego, that carries him to another gross body. That is called transmigration of the soul. This gross body, this body, even in our experience during this lifetime, we have experienced so many gross bodies came and went away. Just like I was a child, so I possessed one gross body, child's body. That came and gone away. I had a boy's body; that came and gone away. A young man's body I had, but that came and gone away. Similarly, this body, old man's body, it has come, and it will also go. So as in spite of so many other bodies came and went, similarly, when this body will no longer exist, I'll transfer myself or transmigrate into another gross body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

*So Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa it is said that He is the supreme controller and He has got His form, His body, which is not made of these material ingredients. Sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Vigrahaḥ means body. So He has got body. But what kind of body? Sac-cid-ānanda. It is, the ingredients are spiritual, not material. Here, the ingredients, gross body I have got, you have got-earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence, ego-these ingredients. But Kṛṣṇa's body, the ingredients are sac-cid-ānanda. Sat means eternity, cit means knowledge, and ānanda means blissfulness. That is His body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. But He has got a body. He has got a form, transcendental form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Anādiḥ, anādiḥ means, because nobody is controller above Him; therefore He is the supreme controller; *He has no beginning. Anādi, ādiḥ: and He is the beginning of everything. Anādir ādir govindaḥ*-His name is Govinda. Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, there are many names. There are millions of names of God. We are just mentioning one or two. So anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam: the cause of all causes. Everything has got cause and effect. So therefore Arjuna has decided to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Being. And He has no material body; therefore His knowledge, whatever knowledge is given by Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. Anyone who is giving knowledge in this material body, he has got four defects. The first defect is that a person in the material body must commit mistake. Must commit, less or more. And the..., anyone who possessing this material body, he must be illusioned. Illusioned means that accepting something for something. Just like we are accepting this body as self. But this is illusion. I'm not this body. I am spiritual spark, part and parcel of God. That is my position. But anyone identifying himself, he thinks that he's this body... Especially the animals. The animals have no knowledge that he's different from the body. Therefore a human being, if he's under the impression that he is this body, he's no better than the animal. Therefore in the human form of life, one can understand his real identity, he can understand what is God, he can understand what is his relationship with God and act accordingly. If he does so, then his human life is perfect. Otherwise, he remains like animal, and he gets no benefit by this nature's gift, human form of life. By evolutionary process, we come to the human form of life. By evolutionary process, we come to the human form of life, passing through 8,400,000, about 8,300,000 species of life. Then we come to this form of life, civilized human being. So this should not be misused in the business of cats and dogs. This should be used for better purposes. This better purpose is to understand oneself, what he is actually, whether he is this body, whether he is this mind, or whether he's different from body and mind, a spiritual spark. That is real knowledge.

*So Kṛṣṇa is delivering this knowledge in the Bhagavad*-gītā, and Arjuna is receiving. The beginning of His instruction was that,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*Kṛṣṇa first began this lesson: "My dear Arjuna, you are not this body. Why you are lamenting about this body? You are not this body. Neither your so*-called relatives, they are this body. They are different." Asmin dehe. In this body there is the proprietor of the body, the dehī. Just like you are the coat and shirt, you are the proprietor of the coat and shirt. Similarly, this body is also covering. The subtle body and the gross body-coat and shirt. But we are different from this coat and shirt. That is the beginning of the instruction. It is going on, and again Arjuna is asking that prakṛtiṁ puruṣaṁ caiva kṣetraṁ kṣetra-jñam eva ca etad veditum icchāmi. He's student. "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, I want to understand what is this material nature and puruṣam." Purusaṁ means enjoyer, and prakṛti means enjoyed. Just like we have got little conception, male and female. So prakṛti means the female, the object of enjoyment, and puruṣa means the enjoyer. So here, although we are dressed in different way, male or female, everyone is trying to enjoy. Therefore even a woman is just like woman, his feature is woman's body. Actually, she is trying to enjoy; *therefore, she is puruṣa. Puruṣa means enjoyer. So here in this material world, either male or female, it doesn't matter*-everyone is trying to enjoy; therefore he is called puruṣa, or the living entity is called puruṣa.



So Arjuna's inquiry is "What is this prakṛti?" Everyone is trying to... Now, yesterday we had lectured in the university, technology. One technologist questioned me. That technology means the process by which we can enjoy this material world. That is technology. So the spirit is how to enjoy. So prakṛtim puruṣaṁ caiva, and kṣetram. Kṣetram means the field of activities. Although everyone is trying to enjoy, but he cannot enjoy according to his whims. He is limited with the body. A man is trying to enjoy and a cat and dog is also trying to enjoy. But the enjoyment of the cats and dogs are different from the man's enjoyment because on account of different body. The facility of enjoyment has been given by nature according to different body. Therefore we find intelligent man and less intelligent man; *cats and dogs and human being and different types of men, different types of plants, different types of animals*-varieties, 8,400,000's. The nature is so acute. As you try to enjoy this material world, he'll give you a suitable type of body. Just like a pig. A pig means he has no discrimination of food. He can eat even stool. So similarly, persons who have no discrimination what kind of food we should eat, so he is given the next change to become a pig so that there will be no discrimination. And he has got a particular type of body, a particular type of mouth so that he can enjoy any abominable things. A tiger, a tiger wants to suck fresh blood, so nature has given a suitable type of body with jaws and nails so that he can immediately attack an animal and suck the blood. So in this way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. We are trying to enjoy, but we have got different desires of enjoyment. So every particular thing is taken into account by the laws of nature. And the next life, because if I try for something, I am absorbed in that thought, and at the time of my death, when I leave this gross body, my mental condition is there, and that mental condition carries me to a suitable position where I get a suitable body to fulfill the mental desires. This is the process of transmigration. So our process is... This is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*yānti devā*-vratāḥ devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*There are many who worship demigods. So they will go to the planet where demigods reside. There are innumerable planets. This, according to Vedic literature, this moon planet is also a place where demigods reside. The sun planet also like that, and many other planets. The Bhagavad*-gītā says, yānti deva-vratāḥ devān. If you want to go to the moon planet, sun planet, Venus planet or any other planet, you just prepare yourself in this life, and at the time of death, you'll be transferred to such and such condition of life. Similarly, pitṛ-vratāḥ, there are Pitṛ-lokas, bhūtejyā, bhūtejyam ghost worshiper. They will also go to such planet. And mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām, Kṛṣṇa says. "Those who want to go to Me, back to home, back to Godhead, they can also go there. They can also go there."



*Therefore our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that if I have to prepare myself in this life... Actually this life is preparation for the next life. That is a fact. So here is a chance, this human form of life. Either you go back to home, back to Godhead, or again you go to the cycle of different species of life. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. You accept one type of body, live there for some time, then give it up, then accept another type of body, live for some time, then accept another type of body. In this way... But we are so much illusioned that although this is botheration, to accept one type of body, again give it up, again accept another type of body, we are not disgusted with this business. Because actually we are eternal. Why should we accept one type of body, live there for some time and again change it? That we have experienced. Just like any one of us, we desire that my youthful body may remain. We try to keep that youthfulness by so many medicine, by so many means. But nature will not allow to keep yourself always youthful. That is not possible. You must change. Therefore one should be inquisitive, that "I don't want this type of body, old body, feeble body, more conditioned, with rheumatic disease and other, so many disease, cough disease. I don't want it, but I'm forced to accept this body. This is real problem. I don't want to die, but death is forced upon me." So these question should be raised by really advanced human being, that "I don't want all these things. I want to enjoy this material world, but I am forced to change into a body. I cannot enjoy. I cannot enjoy." This is real problem. That real problem has been discussed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. We want to enjoy. Suppose I am a technologist. I want to enjoy this material world. I manufacture something, very good facility for living condition, as we are doing. But before finishing my desirable construction, nature takes me away. Just like I saw in France, Paris. What is that arch?

Devotees: Arc de Triomphe.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Napoleon wanted to construct that arch, and he was so, I mean to say, powerful man, but he could not see the arch beginning in his life; *he was taken away. He did not like that, that he wanted to see something more, but he was taken away. But we are not seeing this point, that "I am trying to enjoy and we are adopting so many means, but where is the certainty of my enjoyment? At any moment I shall be kicked out, 'Get out!' " That brain is lacking in the present civilization. Therefore it is said in the Bhāgavatam, parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto. Because these persons are abodha, have no knowledge, therefore they are trying for something to enjoy which may not be allowed by him. It is not actually allowed to him. Nobody wants to die; *he wants to enjoy, live here. But that is not possible. So this is the real problem, that we have accepted a condition of life in the material world which will not allow me to fulfill my desires to the fullest extent. That is the real problem. And that is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... Those who are actually thoughtful, they should know these four principles of problem or unhappiness always in front. He should think that "I am trying to enjoy. I'm planning to enjoy this material world, but I have to die. I have to give up this body, at any moment. There is no guarantee that I shall live so many years. There is no guarantee. At any moment." Therefore the death has been described by Kṛṣṇa, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham. Mṛtyu means death, and sarva-haraś ca means one who take away everything. Sarva-haraś ca. "That is I am," Kṛṣṇa says, or God says. Those who are demons, those who cannot see God or feel the presence of God, they are called demons. So sometimes we hear they say, "Can you show me God?" Well, God is everywhere. God is within your heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. God is within this universe. God is within your heart. God is within the atom also. Now you have to make your eyes to see. Why do you say, "Can you show me God?" Have you got the eyes to see? Your eyes are imperfect. Why you are so much proud of your eyes? If there is no light, you cannot see, so what is the value of your eyes? So your seeing power is under certain condition. Therefore, if you want to see God, then you have to fulfill the condition.



That is, that condition is given in the Vedic literature:

*premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

*yam śyāmasundaram acintya*-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi



*If you have to see God, then you have to apply the ointment of love of God in your eyes, and then your eyes will be cleansed and you'll see God. This is the process. Premāñjana. Prema means love of God, and añjana means ointment. Just like sometimes we do not see correctly. In India, there is a kind of powder called surma. They apply it and they see clearly. Or some, any other. Similarly, there is possibility of seeing God with these eyes, provided you cleanse it. And what is the cleansing process? Love of Godhead, that's all. If you actually learn how to love God... That is practical. If you love somebody, in spite of being engaged in so many other occupation, you see your lover always-"When shall I meet? When shall I talk with him or with her?" This is practical. So if it is materially possible, if you develop your loving tendency... You have got the loving tendency. That is natural. Because living being is part and parcel of God. God is loving, so we have got that propensity of love. But our loving propensity has turned into lust at the present moment due to material condition. So if you want to purify that lust tendency into love, then you can see God. That is the condition. That we'll have to learn. That is called bhakti*-yogam, bhakti-yogam, which we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The human life is meant for understanding God, for seeing God, for talking with God, for behaving with God. That is possible. But you require little training. From the animalistic life, the animal cannot talk of God, cannot understand of God, cannot see God. But if we remain in the animalistic way of life, then it is not possible to see God and talk with Him. But if we purify ourself, if we apply the ointment of love of God on the eye, then premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ, those who are saints... I think this "saint" word has come from the Sanskrit world santaḥ. Santaḥ is Sanskrit word. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Those who are saintly persons, those who have trained themselves in the affairs of love of Godhead, they can see God constantly within their heart. That is possible.



*So here, Arjuna is also a saintly person. He's not ordinary man, because he's talking Kṛṣṇa personally. If Arjuna has got the chance of making friendship with God and talking with Him personally, everyone has got the same capacity, provided we elevate ourself to that standard of life, bhakti, bhakti*-yoga. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, "If anyone wants to understand Me, then the process is bhakti, devotional service." The process means how to love God, that process. And in the Bhāgavatam it is said... What is first-class religion? Sai vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That religion is first class which makes the follower a lover of God. This is simple definition of religion, first-class religion. If we do not awaken our dormant love for God, then śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Then you follow any type of religion, you simply wasting your time. That's all. That is not religion. Religion means to understand God and to learn how to love God. So here Arjuna, he loves Kṛṣṇa, he's a lover of God; therefore he's asking question from Kṛṣṇa. But whatever question is answered by Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect, because He is perfect. So our process of receiving knowledge: from the perfect. Not one who (is) illusioned, who commits mistake, whose senses are imperfect and wants to cheat. Because how an imperfect person can take the position of a teacher if he has...? Now so many scientists, we ask so many things, and they simply reply, "Yes, we are trying," "In future." That means he is not yet perfect. So if you are not perfect, why you are taking the position of a teacher? First of all, you be perfect. So that is not possible. Therefore, our process of receiving knowledge is from the perfect. And who can be more perfect than God Himself? That is our process of knowledge.

So Arjuna is asking from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And the answer, the next verse is: śrī bhagavān uvāca. It is not said, kṛṣṇa uvāca. It is said, śrī bhagavān uvāca: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead replied." What is that?

idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya

kṣetram ity abhidhīyate

etad yo vetti taṁ prāhuḥ

*kṣetra*-jña iti tad-vidaḥ

[Bg. 13.2]



*He's replied the answer very nicely, that "This body is the field of activity." Idaṁ śarīram. Śarīram means this body. This body is the field of activity. Idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetraṁ kaunteya, etad yo vetti taṁ prāhuḥ kṣetra*-jña iti tad-vidaḥ. And the person who knows this field of activity... Just like if we meditate upon this body, if I see my finger, if I ask, "What is this?" "This is my finger." "What is this?" "This is my head." "What is this?" "This is my leg." Everything "mine." And where is the "I"? Where is the "I"? The "I" means who is questioning; *that is "I." This is self-realization. Therefore I, the real I, the soul, is different from this body. He's given the chance of living a certain type of body. Just like a man is given chance to work under certain office of position. Similarly, there are 8,400,000 forms of body, and each living entity has been given the chance to utilize it according to his desire. Because God is within you, everyone, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. In the previous verse also, I recited. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. He sees God present in his heart. So because God is there in everyone's heart, He's there, He's simply waiting for the chance, "When you are coming back to Me?" He's so nice, so friendly. Because we have wanted to enjoy this material world, He's giving us the chance, "All right, enjoy, enjoy." "I want to enjoy this world as a tiger." "All right, take this body of a tiger." "I want to enjoy this world as a pig." "All right, take this." "I want to enjoy this life as Brahmā, a Lord Brahmā, who has got millions of years of age, duration." "All right, you become a Brahmā." But Kṛṣṇa advises, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna: [Bg. 8.16] "My dear Arjuna, even if you go the highest planetary system, the Brahmaloka, again you have to come back." This is the position of material world. You accept this, and again you accept this, and again you accept another thing according to your karma. Just like you have got this human form of body. It is a great opportunity. But if we do not utilize as human being, if we utilize it as cats and dogs, again I'm going to be cats and dogs. This is the process. Idaṁ kṣetram. This body is the field of my activities, and I, the proprietor of the body, I am the knower of the body. Idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya kṣetram ity abhidhīyate etad yo vetti [Bg. 13.2]*-this is real knowledge. Etad yo vetti, that is knowledge. The knowledge of technology is not knowledge. That is ignorance. The knowledge of self-realization is actual knowledge. That is possible in this human form of life. That is not possible by the cats and dogs. If we misuse this body for propensities like cats and dogs, we are misusing.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Guest: ...variation(?) between the Bhagavad*-gītā and the Vedas books?



*Prabhupāda: Vedic knowledge means to understand God, the whole Vedic knowledge. Knowledge means we are getting... Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Veda means knowledge. So we want to know so many things. That is knowledge. So you get all information from the Vedas. There is called Āyur*-veda, Dhanur-veda, Yajur-veda. Veda means knowledge, but actually the Veda means, ultimately, to know God. That is called Vedānta. Anta means ultimate, and veda means knowledge. So ultimate knowledge is your, when..., if... You know so many things. We have got so many subject matters for understanding. But ultimately, when you understand what is God, that is the end of knowledge. That is end of knowledge. So that is Vedānta. So Vedānta means to know the Absolute Truth, God. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham [Bg. 15.15]. Kṛṣṇa says that "By all Vedic knowledge, ultimately one must come to the point of knowing God." Therefore another name of God is Brahman, Parabrahman. So brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa means one who knows Brahman. That is called brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa is not a class which is to be found in India only. No. Anyone who knows God, who knows the Parabrahman, he is brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. So Vedic knowledge means ultimately to become a brāhmaṇa. That means to know God. That is Vedic knowledge. And the summary of Vedic knowledge is here in the Bhagavad-gītā, because here God directly is instructing about Himself. Therefore it is the essence of all Vedic knowledge. The ultimate goal of Vedic knowledge is to know God. But we cannot know God. We have blunt senses. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. With these material senses, blunt senses, imperfect senses, we cannot understand God. That is not possible. But if we can please God by your service, by our love, He reveals Himself, revelation. That is the process.



*So simply by your speculation, research work, we cannot find out God. That is not possible, although God is here, everyone's heart. Sarvasya cāham hṛdi sanniviṣṭo [Bg. 15.15]. God is there in everyone's heart. But who knows that? So there is a process by which one has to learn God, what is God. That is sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. It is very peculiar process, that you have to learn God through the tongue. Through the tongue. They want to see God with the eyes, but the Vedic information is that you have to know God through the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvā. Jihvā means tongue. When you employ your tongue in the service of the Lord, then he becomes revealed. The tongue's business is to glorify the Lord, chant the holy names of God. That is specially recommended in this age. You cannot follow all the rituals in any scripture. That is very difficult. We are now so fallen it is not possible. Therefore the general regulation is that you chant the holy name of the Lord. It does not mean that we are requesting you to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. We believe that Kṛṣṇa is the name of God, but if you have got another name... God has many names. God is unlimited, therefore He has got unlimited names. So if you chant the holy name of God, it doesn't matter, if it actually meaning... Just like "water." Water, if somebody says jala, he means water. If somebody says "water," he means water. If somebody says pāni, he means water. So actually, if the word you use as the name of God, if it's actually real name of God, then by chanting that holy name, you realize God. Therefore tongue is the beginning of realization. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. As well as controlling the tongue, we have to spiritualize the tongue. If you keep the tongue materialized, then it is defective. So two things are done by the tongue: tasting foodstuff and chanting the glories of the Lord. If we engage our tongue in this way... Foodstuff means..., our process is to offer foodstuff to the Lord and the remnants of foodstuff we eat, prasāda. So this is one process, this is one business of the tongue. And another business of the tongue is to chant the holy name of the Lord. So in this way, if you engage your tongue in the service of the Lord, then gradually your realize. You cannot realize, but God reveals Himself, what He is. So Vedic knowledge means to realize God. That is ultimate aim of Vedic knowledge. And here, Bhagavad*-gītā, He's revealing Himself to Arjuna, because he's a devotee. So if we take the words of Arjuna, then we also realize God. This is the process.

Guest: I would like to put a question about the relation between Kṛṣṇa, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Paramātmā and Brahman...



Prabhupāda: Brahman.



*Guest: Brahman. Which is the relation between these concepts? They are, according to your commentaries, in Bhagavad*-gītā, different. But what is...



*Prabhupāda: No. It is not different. Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. The Absolute Truth is one, but He is realized by different persons differently. Just like there is a big hill. So from very distant place you see that hill just like something like cloud. But if you go forward, then you see something green. And if you go actually to the hill, you see there are so many trees, so many houses, so many living entities. The object is the same, but realization from different angle of vision is different. That is the description of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. The Absolute Truth is called tattva. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. When I see the hill as a cloud, it is the same hill. When I see the hill as something green, that is the same hill. And when I see the hill actually, it is functioning, there are so many trees, so many animals, so many men, so many houses, this same hill. Similarly, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān is the same thing, but it appears different according to persons' different realization. But ultimately, the Absolute Truth is Bhagavān, Supreme Personality of Godhead.



Guest: But what is this personality? It is not the same as our personality.



Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that He is different.



Guest: In which we..., way do you use the concept of personality?



*Prabhupāda: He is person. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. In the Second Chapter He says, "My dear Arjuna, I, you, and all these persons who assembled, it is not that we were not existing in the past, it is not that that we shall not exist in the future." When He says "I, you and all these persons," they are all persons. God is also person, Arjuna is also person, and the all other who assembled in the battlefield, they are also persons. So Kṛṣṇa says, "All these persons, they were existing in the past, now they are existing, and in future they will exist." So there is past, present, future. In no time, God is impersonal, neither we are impersonal. We are also personal. And that is also confirmed, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, Kaṭha Upaniṣad (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), that He is the chief person amongst other persons. We living entities, we are many persons, and God is the chief person. And what is the difference between this person and that person, the singular number person, one, and the plural number person, many? That is explained: eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one singular number person is supplying all the necessities of these different plural persons. That is the distinction. These things are expressed in Upaniṣad, Vedānta-sūtra. So ultimately, God is person.



Guest: But in, when *Upaniṣads* say there is...



Prabhupāda: Impersonal description.



Guest: The unity is unexpressible. It is,



Prabhupāda: Unexpressible...



Guest: Nothing can be said about...



Prabhupāda: No. Why not?



Guest: ...the Supreme.



*Prabhupāda: Why not? Just like this is also Upaniṣad, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So He's a person. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. There are so many. Apāṇi*-pādo javano grahītā. Sa aikṣata, sa asṛjata. So when they say... In Christian Bible also, they believe God created. So if He's a creator, He must be a person. But His body is different from our body. That I have explained. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1].



Swedish man: Well, I would like to thank you for your talk. Thank you very much.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





730909LE.STO

Lecture on Gurvaṣṭakam

at Upsala University

-

Stockholm, September 9, 1973



Prabhupāda: So in order to enter into spiritual life, two things are required, as enunciated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍo bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



The living entities, they are wandering throughout the universe, changing bodies, transmigrating from one body to another, one place to another, one planet to another, but they are rotating within this universe, material universe, brahmāṇḍo bhramite. This science is unknown to the modern education department, how the spirit soul is transmigrating from one body to another and how he's being transferred from one planet to another. We have got our book, *Easy Journey to Other Planets*. So guru can help you to transmigrate from this planet directly to the spiritual sky, where there are innumerable spiritual planets. They are known as Vaikuṇṭhaloka. And the topmost planet in the spiritual sky, that is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa's planet. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are trying to give information how one can be transferred directly to the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, Kṛṣṇaloka. That is our mission.



*So what is the difference between this material world and the spiritual world? The difference is that in the material world you have to change your body, although you are eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You are not destroyed after the annihilation of this body, material body, but you transmigrate to another body. And that body may be one of the 8,400,000's of forms. There are 8,400,000's of forms. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi. There are 900,000 forms in the water, two millions forms of trees and plants, eleven hundred thousand forms of the insect, and then one million forms of the birds. And then three million forms of the beasts. And then we come to this human form of life. Now it is our choice, whether you are going to be transferred again through the cycle of this transmigration of the soul from the one body to another in the lower species of life, or you want to be transferred to the spiritual sky. And you can transfer yourself to the highest spiritual platform, which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is your choice. You have been given the chance of this human form of body to make your choice. You are completely under the control of material nature, but the material nature gives you a chance to get this human form of body. Whatever you like, you can do. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*The purport is that those who are going, trying to be elevated to the higher planetary system, which is called Devaloka, or the planets of the demigods... There the standard of living, duration of life, is very, very large. Or if you want to be transferred to the Pitṛlokas, or in the lokas of the ghosts, bhūtejyā, or if you want to be transferred to the loka where Kṛṣṇa lives*-mad-yājino 'pi mām-now it depends on your practice. But the rotating, wandering within this material world from one body to another or from one planet to another, that is not advised. That is called saṁsāra. Saṁsāra means material existence. That is called saṁsāra. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. You take your birth once in some form of body. You live for some time. Then you have to give up this body. Then you have to accept another body. Then again live for some time. Then give up that body. Again accept another body. In this way, it is going on. That is called saṁsāra, rotating within this material world.



*That is compared with dāvānala. Dāvānala means forest fire. Forest fire. You have got experience. You have seen, might have. In the forest, nobody goes to set fire, but it takes place. Everyone knows it. Similarly, within this material world, nobody wants to be unhappy. Everyone is trying to be very happy, but he is forced to accept unhappiness. This is the position. Therefore it is called dāvānala. Dāvānala means nobody willingly sets fire, but there is fire in the forest. Similarly, in this material world, everyone is trying from time immemorial*-even at the present moment. There is some occasional war, world war, and they manufacture some means. In our days, when we were young men, there was a League of Nations. Perhaps some of you may know. When the nineteen hundred, nineteen..., when the First World War was finished, these nations, they formed a League of Nations. League of Nations means just to arrange for peaceful living between the nations. So there was forest fire again. Nobody wanted war, but there was Second World War. Again. And again they are trying to, the League... What is that? United Nations. But the war is going on. The Vietnam war is going on, the Pakistan war is going on, and many others are going on. So you may try your best to live very peacefully, but nature will not allow you. There must be war. It is not possible. In the history, especially in European history, there were so many wars-Carthagian War, Greece War, Roman War, Seven Years' War between France and England, and Hundred Years' War..., so..., so far we have read in the history. And the war feeling is going on, not only between nation and nation, between man to man, neighbor to neighbor-even between husband and wife, father and son, this war is going on. This is called dāvānala, forest fire. Forest fire means in the forest nobody goes to set fire, but automatically, by the clash, friction of the dried bamboo, there is electricity and it catches fire. Similarly, although we do not want unhappiness, still, by our dealings we create enemies and friends, and there is fight, there is war. This will continue. This is called saṁsāra-dāvānala. Try to understand.

*So guru means spiritual master means who can deliver one from this forest fire. Just like when there is forest fire, the animals are very much disturbed, and they die mostly. The snakes, they die immediately. So this forest fire, saṁsāra*-dāvānala, is going on perpetually, and the person or the authorized person who can deliver you from this forest fire of material existence, he's called guru, or the spiritual master. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam. How he delivers? What is his means? The same example. Where there is fire in the forest, you cannot send fire brigade, or you cannot go there with bucketful of waters to extinguish the fire. That is not possible. Then how it will be extinguished? Fire means it requires water to be extinguished. But where the water is coming from? From your bucket or from your fire brigade? No. It must come from the sky. It must come from the sky. When there will be torrents of rain from the sky, this forest fire, blazing forest fire will be extinguished. So these rains from the sky, it does not depend on your scientific propaganda or manipulation. It depends on the mercy of the Supreme Lord. So the spiritual master is compared with the cloud. Just like from the cloud there is torrents of rain, similarly, a spiritual master is considered just like cloud. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Just like cloud takes the water from the sea-cloud hasn't got its own water; *cloud takes water from the sea*-similarly, a spiritual master brings mercy from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Just see the comparison. He has no own mercy, but he carries the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the qualification of spiritual master. A spiritual master will never say that "I am God. I can give you mercy." No. That is not spiritual master. That is a bogus, pretender. A spiritual master will say, "I am servant of God. I have brought His mercy. Please take it and be satisfied." This is spiritual master's business. Just like a post peon. A post peon, when he delivers you some large amount of money, it is not his own money. The money is sent by somebody else. But he honestly delivers you: "Sir, here is your money. Take it." So you become very much satisfied with the peon. Although it is not his money, but when, in case of need, you get the money sent by your father or somebody else, brought by the peon, on oh, you get very much satisfaction. Similarly, we are all suffering in this blazing fire of material existence. The spiritual master brings the message from the Supreme Lord and delivers you. And if you kindly accept, then you'll be satisfied. This is the business of the spiritual master.

*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya*-kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇarṇavasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*So spiritual master is offered obeisances: "Sir, you have brought the mercy from the Supreme Lord. Therefore we are much obliged to you. To deliver us, you have come. We offer our respectful obeisances." This is the meaning of this verse. Vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam. That means the first qualification of the spiritual master, or guru, is to deliver you some message by which immediately your blazing fire in the heart will be stopped. This is the test.



Everyone has blazing fire within the heart. That is the proof of material existence. Nobody is without anxieties. That blazing fire means anxieties, always. Everyone has got anxieties. Even the small bird, he has got anxiety. You give the small bird some grains to eat, he'll eat it. But he's not very peacefully eating. He'll see this way, that way, "If somebody's coming to kill me?" Yes. This is material existence. Everyone... Even President Nixon, he's also full of anxieties, what to speak of others. Even Gandhi, in our country, he was full of anxieties. All politicians, they're full of anxiety; *although they hold very exalted post, still the material disease, anxiety, is there. So if you want to be anxiety*-less, without any anxiety, then you must take shelter of the guru, or the spiritual master, and the test is that by the instruction of guru, by following the instruction of guru, you will be anxiety-less. This is the test.

*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇārṇavasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*Don't make a cheap guru or a fashion guru, just like you keep sometimes a dog as a fashion. Similarly, if you want to keep a dog, or if you want to keep a guru as a fashion-"I have got a guru"*-that will not help. You must accept a guru who can extinguish the blazing fire of anxiety within your heart. That is the first test of a guru.



*And the second test is, mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana*-nṛtya-gīta-vaditra-mādyan manaso rasena. The guru... Second system, symptom, is that guru is always engaged in chanting Mahāprabhu, glorifying Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is his business. Mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana-nṛtya-gīta. He's dancing and chanting in the... By chanting the holy name of the Lord... Because this is the remedy for all calamities within this material world at the present moment. At the present moment, nobody can meditate. The so-called meditation is humbug. It is very difficult to meditate in this disturbing age of Kali. Therefore śāstra says, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum [SB 12.3.52]. Meditation means dhyāna, dhyāyato. So Kṛte, in the Satya-yuga, when people used to live for 100,000's of years... The Vālmīki Muni, he got perfection by meditation after meditating for sixty thousands of years. So there is no guarantee whether we are going to live for sixty years or sixty hours. So meditation is not possible in this age. That was possible in the Satya-yuga. Then the next path is performing rituals as they are enjoined in the Vedic śāstra. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. Yajato makhaiḥ. Makhaiḥ means performing big, big sacrifices. It requires huge lots of money. They, in this age, people are very poor. They cannot perform. Dvāpare paricaryāyām. And in the Dvāpara-yuga it was possible to worship the Deity in the temple. But nowadays, in this Kali-yuga, that is also very impossible fact. Therefore, the general recommendation is, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt: "In this age of Kali, simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord, you can get all perfection." All perfection. That is the... Our this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for that purpose. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... The picture is there, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Here, Ṣaḍ-bhūja. So He inaugurated this movement five hundred years ago, chanting. Chanting and dancing. So this is going on for the last five hundred years. In India it is very popular, but in the Western countries, we have just introduced five or six years ago, and people are taking to it, and they are feeling happy. So this is the only process. Therefore, the guru is always engaged in chanting. Mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana-nṛtya-gīta **, Chanting and dancing. Unless he performs himself, how he can teach his disciple?

*So first symptom is that he will give you such instruction that immediately you will feel relief from all anxieties. And the second symptom is that he's personally engaged also in chanting and dancing the holy name of the Lord. Mahāprabhoḥ kīrtana*-nṛtya-gīta-vaditra-mādyan manaso rasena. And enjoy the transcendental bliss within the mind by chanting and dancing. Unless you become blissful, very happy, you cannot dance. It is not... Artificially, you cannot dance. These dances, they are not artificial. They feel some transcendental bliss; *therefore they dance. It is not they are dancing dog. No. They dance from the spiritual platform. Vaditra*-mādyan manaso rasena. Romāñca-kampāśru-taraṅga-bhājo. And there are sometimes transformation of the body with spiritual symptoms-sometimes crying, sometimes there is, I mean to..., swelling on the end of the hairs. There are so many symptoms. These are later. These are not to be imitated. But when one is spiritually advanced, these symptoms are visible. This is the second symptom of guru. And the third is:

*śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-

*śṛṅgāra*-tan-mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*The spiritual master's duty is to engage the disciples in Deity worship, śrī*-vigraha. Śrī-vigraha. In our centers, all centers... We have got about..., more than one hundred centers all over the world. We have got the method of Deity worship. Here we have not yet established, but we worship the picture of Lord Caitanya and guru. But in other centers... In London, we have got two centers, two temples. In America we have got about forty centers. In this way, in each and every center, there is Deity worship. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā: to worship the Deity, to dress the Deity very nicely; to cleanse the temple very nicely; *to offer nice foodstuff to the Deity and accept the remnants of the foodstuff as our eating. In this way, there is method of Deity worship. The Deity worship is done by guru himself, and he engages the disciple also in that business. This is the third symptom. Śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mār janādau, yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi. Not that he is not engaged. He is also engaged. His disciples are engaged. He's always showing, "Do like that. Do like that. Do like that." Or sometimes, if he cannot, the guru shows how to do it. That is the business of guru.



Then fourth symptom is:

*catur*-vidha-śrī-bhagavat-prasāda-

*svādv*-anna-tṛptān hari-bhakta-saṅghān

kṛtvaiva tṛptiṁ bhajataḥ sadaiva

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*The fourth symptom is that a guru, the spiritual master, encourages prasāda distribution, remnants of foodstuff distributed to the public. Ours is not dry philosophy, simply we talk and go home. No. We distribute prasādam, very sumptuous prasādam. In every temple, anyone who comes, we can offer prasādam. In each and every temple, we have got already from fifty to two hundred devotees. And outsiders also, they come and take prasādam. This is an... This introduction is also another symptom of guru, prasāda distribution. Catur*-vidha. Not ordinary. Catur-vidha means four kinds of eatables: carvya, cūṣya, lehya, peya. Something is chewed, something is swallowed up, something is licked up. In this way, there are different kinds of palatable dishes. Catur-vidha-śrī... Catur-vidha means four kinds of different types of varieties of prasādam. Catur-vidha-śrī... Śrī-bhagavat-prasādam. Śrī means opulent. If you eat bhagavat-prasādam, then gradually you become spiritualized. It has got the potency. If you eat the prasādam. Therefore it is said that realization of God can be done by the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. If you engage your tongue in the service of the Lord, then you realize God realization. So what is that tongue engagement? The tongue engagement is you chant the holy name of the Lord, and you take the prasādam, remnants of foodstuff given to the Lord. Then you become self-realized, God realized. By these two methods. You don't require to be very highly educated philosopher, scientist, and a rich man and..., to realize God. If you sincerely engage your tongue only in the service of the Lord, you realize Him. It is so simple thing. It is not very difficult. Therefore, this prasādam program is there, introduced by the guru, spiritual master. Śrī-vigra... Catur-vidha-śrī-bhagavat-prasāda-svādv-anna-tṛptān hari-bhakta-saṅghān. Hari-bhakta-saṅga means association of the devotees. These things are done... Outside we cannot do it. But if there are some devotees, we can order, "Please do it. Distribute like this. Do like this." Therefore hari-bhakta-saṅghān. Kṛtvaiva tṛptiṁ bhajataḥ sadaiva. And when he's fully satisfied that the prasāda distribution is going on, he's very much pleased and engages himself in the devotional service of the Lord by chanting and dancing. This is the fourth symptom.



And fifth symptom is:

*śrī*-rādhikā-mādhavayor apāra-

*mādhurya*-līlā-guṇa-rūpa-nāmnām

*prati*-kṣaṇāsvādana-lolupasya... **



*What is that? Anyway. Vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam. And the spiritual master is always thinking of the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-rādhikā-mādhavayor apāra: with Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, His consort, and the gopīs. That is always his thinking. Sometimes he's thinking about His pastimes with the cowherds boys. That means that he's engaged always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, engaged in some kind of pastime. Śrī-rādhikā-mādhavayor apāra-mādhurya-līlā-guṇa-rūpa-nāmnām pratikṣaṇa asvādana lolupasya. Pratikṣaṇa, twenty-four hours, he's thinking. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One must be engaged twenty-four hours in thinking of Kṛṣṇa. You have to make your such program. Just like we have, at least, made such program. All these boys and girls, those who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are engaged twenty-four hours. Not officially, once in a week, they meditate or go to some temple. No. Not like that. Twenty-four hours. Twenty-four hours. They have got engagement twenty-four hours. Ask anyone how they are engaged. You can ask.



The next symptom is... What is that?

*Haṁsadūta: Nikuñja*-yūno.



*Prabhupāda: Nikuñja*-yūno rati-keli-siddhyai yā yālibhir yuktir apekṣaṇīyā **. So the ultimate goal of the spiritual master is that he wants to be transferred to the planet of Kṛṣṇa, where he wants to associate with the gopīs to help them to serve Kṛṣṇa. Some, some of them are, some of the devotees, spiritual master, they are thinking of becoming assistants to the gopīs, some of them are thinking to be assistants to the cowherds boy, some of them are thinking to be assistant to mother Yaśodā or Nanda, and some of them are thinking to the servants of God. Or some of them are thinking how to become a flower, tree, a fruit tree or a calf or a cow in Vṛndāvana. There are five kinds of mellows: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya and mādhurya. The... Everything is there spiritual. That I shall describe next. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu. So in the spiritual sky, the land is spiritual, the tree is spiritual, the fruit is spiritual, the flower is spiritual, the water is spiritual, the servant is spiritual, the friend is spiritual, the Lord is spiritual and His associates are spiritual. Everything. Therefore oneness, Absolute Truth, everything absolute. Although there are varieties, these varieties, the spiritual varieties, are simply reflection in this material world. Just like there is a tree on the bank of the river. That is reflected in the water. But reflected how? The top has gone down. The topmost thing has gone down. So this material world is the reflection of the spiritual world-but perverted reflection. In the spiritual world, there is love between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always young. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. And Rādhārāṇī is also always young. Pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. We worship: śrī-rādhikā-mādhavayor apāra **. Mādhava. Jaya jaya Rādhā-Mādhava. We worship not Kṛṣṇa alone-with His eternal consort, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. So there is eternal love between Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra, it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This Absolute Truth means wherefrom everything comes, emanates. Just like here we find love between mother and son, love between wife and husband, love between master and servant, love between friends and friends, love between master and the dog or the cat or the cow. Same thing. These are only reflection of the spiritual world. The same thing is there. Kṛṣṇa is also good lover of the animals, calves and cows. As we love here dogs and cats, Kṛṣṇa loves there cows and calves. You have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa. So the propensity to love even an animal is there. Otherwise how it can be reflected here? This is simply shadow reflection. If, in the reality, there is nothing like that, then how it can be reflected here? So everything is there. Therefore, that mellow, to understand, you have to practice. Here we have got frustration. Here we love. A man loves a woman or woman loves a man. But there is frustration. After some time, they are separated, they divorce, because it is perverted reflection. There is no real love in this material world. It is simply lust. Real love is in the spiritual world between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Real love is between Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs. Real love, the friendship is there between Kṛṣṇa and His cowherds boys. Real love between animal and man is there. Kṛṣṇa is loving the cows and calves. Real love between trees, flowers, water, simply that is the platform of love. That is spiritual world. Everything love.



*So we are simply satisfied within this material world by the shadow reflection of such thing, as in the spiritual world. Therefore we have got this opportunity of human life. Let us understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Let us understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ... Tattvataḥ, in truth, not superficially. Learn this science of Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is the instruction: if you simply try to love. The process is that you worship the Deity, you take the prasādam, you chant the holy name, you follow the instruction of the spiritual master. In this way you'll be trained up how to understand Kṛṣṇa, and then you life is successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



730925LE.BOM

Lecture

-

Bombay, September 25, 1973



*Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, the father of saṅkīrtana movement within two hundred years. He was ācārya and a householder, gṛhastha. He was very responsible officer, magistrate, householder. But he was a great devotee. Not only devotee-ācārya in the line of Caitanya Mahāprabhu disciplic succession, ācārya. So he sung, ye dine gṛhete bhajana dekhi, gṛhete goloka bhāya: "The day whenever we find there is bhajana," means worshiping the Supreme Lord, "at that time immediately the house becomes Vaikuṇṭha." Actually, that is so. Vaikuṇṭha or Goloka Vṛndāvana is not material things. Just like Kṛṣṇa is not material. Kṛṣṇa... As Kṛṣṇa can stay in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, and still He can stay everywhere... Aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. That is Kṛṣṇa.



*In the Brahma*-saṁhitā it is stated,

*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac*-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

*aṇḍāntara*-stha-paramāṇu cayāntara-sthaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ...

[Bs. 5.35]



*Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, is everywhere by His one plenary portion, which is known as Paramātmā. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭi. That Paramātmā is situated in every universe, aṇdāntarastham. Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. As Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He is presented in every universe, and as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He is within everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Not only within the heart of everyone, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham, He is within the atom. That is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's place, Goloka Vṛndāvana, that is also spread everywhere. How that Goloka Vṛndāvana becomes spread? As soon as there is devotee. Yes. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ tiṣṭhāmi vaikuṇṭhe na ca yogināṁ hṛdayeṣu: "I do not stay in Vaikuṇṭha-loka or within the heart of the yogis." Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ: "I stay there where My devotees are chanting about Me, about My glories." This is the process. Immediately... Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. That is Kṛṣṇa's power, omnipotency, omnipotency. We pray God, "Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent." So that is fact. God can be present anywhere simultaneously, omnipresent. Similarly, there is no difference between God and His place. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. As Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, ārādhya, similarly His place is also ārādhya, worshipable. So as He is all-pervading, similarly, His place is also all-pervading. So how things can be changed into Vaikuṇṭha? That is by chanting the holy name of the Lord. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. So the bhaktas, they are also so powerful that by chanting the holy name of God, they make the supreme all-powerful Lord descend in that place. Therefore the statement of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura that ye dine gṛhete bhajana dekhi, se dine gṛhete goloka bhāya... So we can change our home also into Vaikuṇṭha. We can change our home. It is not difficult. Because as Kṛṣṇa can be all-pervading, Vaikuṇṭha is all-pervading. But we have to simply realize it by the authorized process. Everyone, we can change our home into Vaikuṇṭha.



*So there is another statement of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura that kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara chāḍi anācāra. To turn your home into Vaikuṇṭha is not very difficult job. Simply you have to adopt the method. Kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara chāḍi anācāra. Anācāra means sinful activities. You cannot associate with God if you become sinful. That is not possible. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam: "One who is completely free from sinful life," te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 7.28], "He can worship Me." So therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we do not recommend that "You give up your occupation, you become a sannyāsī, give up your wife and children." No. That is not our movement. Amongst ourself here there are sannyāsīs, brahmacārīs, gṛhastha, vānaprastha. Everyone is there. Everyone can worship Kṛṣṇa. There is no such thing that "This class of men, only the brāhmaṇa or the sannyāsīs or brahmacārī or Hindus..." No. Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Even lower born, born in the lower grade family, he is also open. Simply one has to adopt the means. That is recommended by... There are many songs. Locana dāsa, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he also says,

viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana

kabe hāma herabo śrī vṛndāvana



*Viṣaya means sense enjoyment. Sense enjoyment. So one has to give up this practice of sense enjoyment. Then he becomes purified. There is no prohibition for eating, but there is prohibition of eating things which are rejected, amedhya. Eating is not stopped, but you cannot eat anything which is not accepted by Kṛṣṇa. That is called anācāra. If you eat something which is not accepted by Kṛṣṇa... Because our life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness life, means to be always eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. As the servant eats the remnants of foodstuff left by the master, similarly, we are servants of Kṛṣṇa. We also eat, but we eat remnants of foodstuff which is left by Kṛṣṇa. That is called prasādam, mahā*-prasādam.



*So we have to, I mean to say, mend our life in such a way that kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara, chāḍi anācāra. We have to give up anācāra, forbidden things, sinful things. Striyaḥ sūnā pānaṁ dyūtaṁ yatra pāpaś catur*-vidhaḥ. There are four kinds of sinful activities. Basic principle of sinful life is avaidha, illicit sex life. Avaidha stri-saṅga. Striyaḥ sūnā, unnecessary animal killing. Pāna, drinking intoxicant; and gambling. We have to give up these four principles. Then our life becomes pure. If we give up these four principles and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then we become perfect. How it is? You can see the examples. These European, Americans, they were accustomed to all these practices. That is their daily affair. But they have given up this. Now you see, how they are saintly. So the thing is not very difficult, but one has to accept the principles. Then one lifes becomes perfect. They do not know what is perfection of life. People are thinking that material advancement is perfection of life. No. That is not perfection of life. Because even if you make nice material arrangement, you cannot enjoy it. At any time you shall be kicked out. Where is your perfection? Suppose you have very nice apartment, very nice good bank balance, very nice wife, children. Everything is all right. But is there any guarantee that you can enjoy them? Is there any guarantee? At any moment you shall be out. This is not perfection. First of all make guarantee that "Whatever I am preparing for, very happy life in this material world, they will be permanent. I will not be kicked out." Then it is perfection. But there is no such guarantee.

*Therefore this is not perfection of life. Perfection of life is that when there is guarantee of no more birth, no more death, no more old age and no more disease. That is perfection. That can be achieved by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by material way. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. If you want to be eternal, blissful, eternally blissful and full of knowledge, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], then we have to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other way. There is only way. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. If you are serious about perfection of life, then one has to take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayam: "Without any doubt, you shall come to Me." And what is the principle? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakti mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Four things: "Simply always think of Me," man-manā; *"you become just My devotee," mad*-bhakta; *"just worship Me..." So is it very difficult task to think of Kṛṣṇa and to worship Him, to become His devotee and to offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa? Just like we are doing this, in this evening. This is the process. We are thinking of Kṛṣṇa by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We are offering obeisances to the Deity and at least trying to become bhaktas. Man*-manā bhava mad..., mad-yājī, and worshiping. What is the worshiping? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. It is not difficult. Little flower, little fruit, little water, anyone can collect. But the thing is a dog obstinacy: "I shall not do it." That is the thing. Otherwise it is very easy thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if we adopt it, our life becomes successful. That is the perfection of life. That we are teaching. But there is a dog's obstinacy that they will not adopt: "No." This is our defect. Otherwise the process is very simple; *everyone can adopt it in every country, every man. There is no distinction that "This class of men can adopt and that class of men can..." No. Just like the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it is now being chanted all over the world, and they are becoming Vaiṣṇava. These European, American boys... Then where is the difficulty? But the difficulty is our obstinacy. If one is obstinate, he is determined, then it is very difficult. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Only these classes of men, duṣkṛtina, always engaged in sinful activities, mūḍha, rascal... Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. And lowest of the mankind. Because human life is meant for worshiping Kṛṣṇa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, hari hari viphale, janama goṅāinu: "My life is spoiled." Why? Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. So we are trying to stop drinking poison knowingly. Viṣayā viṣānale, divā-niśi hiyā jvale, taribāre nā koinu upāya, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāya. These are the Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's... Big... They were stalwart ācāryas.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for everyone's benefit. It is the topmost humanitarian movement to make everyone happy, to make everyone immortal, to make everyone peaceful(?), to make everyone... [break] ...without being wise, nobody can surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Mūḍhas, rascals, they cannot. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. These are the qualification, who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Duṣkṛtina, narādhama. "Oh, how he is narādhama? He is M.A., Ph.D., D.H.C., T.H.C. How he is narādhama?" Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: his knowledge has no value because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. These M.A., Ph.D.'s will not help me. Śaṅkarācārya said, na hi na hi rakṣati ḍu-kṛñ-karaṇe. "By your grammatical jugglery of words nonsense, you cannot be saved." Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate: "You rascal, just engage yourself in the loving service of Govinda." This is Śaṅkarācārya's advice, although he was impersonalist. Kṛṣṇa says that "Who does not worship Me?" Naradhāma, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, they have no knowledge. Because if he remains in the real point a rascal, then what is the value of his knowledge? There is no knowledge. Therefore bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of struggling for existence like this, if one becomes actually wise, jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. This is intelligence. This is intelligence. "Kṛṣṇa, from this day, I surrender. So long I was forgotten. I did not know that my only business is to surrender to You." So any moment you surrender, immediately you are protected.

*sarva*-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

*ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

[Bg. 18.66]



"Don't bother. Everything is there." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31].



*So this is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to make fools and rascals and sinful men to become wise. If you take advantage of it, you will be glorified and we shall be glorified. This is our process. And actually it is happening. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is pāpi tāpi yata chila, harināme uddhārila, tāra sākṣī... You want evidence? Jagāi and Mādhāi. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered two Jagāi and Mādhāi. Now you can see how much Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is strong. Many thousands of Jagāi*-Mādhāi's are being delivered. So His movement is greater than Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, personally He delivered two Jagāi-Mādhāi. Now, by His movement, thousands Jagāi-Mādhāi's are being... This is the practical. And it is very easy. It is not very difficult. Anyone can take. But if we take knowingly poison, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu, who can protect you? So it is our appeal to everyone that take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Even if you cannot give up your bad habits, sinful activities, still, you take the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and your life will be glorified.

Thank you very much. [break] (answering question:) It is just like without eating, if you question that how one is satisfied by eating food. A hungry man, if you give him food, he will say, "Yes, I am satisfied." There is no question of "How?" If you eat... If you are hungry, if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. It is automatic. Similarly, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you will understand. Not from outside. How? You can see how these boys and girls, they are feeling satisfaction. Similarly, if you chant also, you will feel satisfaction. There is no question of "How?" It is so, exactly (as) when you are hungry, if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. It is practical. It is stated therefore,

*rāja*-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ

pavitraṁ paramam idam

pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ

*su*-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam

[Bg. 9.2]



*Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. It is not theoretical. If you practice, you will see, pratyakṣāvagamam. And it is very easy to perform. So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you will understand. Exactly like that: if you eat, then you will feel satisfaction. Simply theoretically discussing how it become, we can say to you... It will not be understood. You chant, you will understand. Practical. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam su*-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. This is the process. Any other question?



Indian man (1): To make it more clear to me what I feel, that it is something like not realizing that Lord Kṛṣṇa is the real reason, to chant the name, it will be something like we have instances in the old śāstras and books and histories, that...



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by old?



Indian man (1): I mean the history, those stories...



Prabhupāda: That story, that stories... You do not know the science. Why you are talking like nonsense? What do you mean by old? It is eternal. There is no question. Avyayam. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ. You do not know.



Indian man (1): Therefore they used to pray to God before they used to go to commit theft, and they used to come back again to worship the God and to please Him that yes, they were not caught.



Prabhupāda: So do you think we are dacoits?



Indian man (1): No, but...



Prabhupāda: Then what do you think? Why do you question this? Why do you question these nonsense things?



Indian man (1): That praying to God without...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, he is better than you because you do not know what is God. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



*api cet su*-durācāro

*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ...

[Bg. 9.30]



*Who is worshiping God, but his character is not good, he is sādhu. And those who are talking and no connection with God, he is mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, narādhama. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. We have to talk through the medium of śāstra. It is said, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. He is sādhu, because he has taken, he has come to the right place, bhagavad-bhajan. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. He will not remain such thief.



kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā

*śaśvac*-chāntiṁ nigacchati

kaunteya pratijānīhi

na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati

[Bg. 9.31]



*If one has actually taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will never be lost, even though you find for the present he is not well*-behaved. That is the version of Bhagavad-gītā. Even a thief, even a rogue, even a sinful man takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follows the rules and regulation, for the time being you may find there are some faults, but it will vanish very soon. Just like the electric fan, it is moving. You make the switch off, you will find still moving. But it will stop moving very soon, because the switch is off. Similarly, if anyone takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, if you find that still he is not well-behaved, that is not very important thing. He has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is important thing. Because this superficial external misbehavior will stop. There are many śāstras' example.



*tyaktvā sva*-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer

patet tato yadi, bhajann apakva

yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ

*ko vārtha āpto abhajatāṁ sva*-dharmataḥ

[SB 1.5.17]



*Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, even one takes by sentiment, still he is profited. And person who are very honest in executing his duty but does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, śāstra says ko vārtha āpto abhajatām: "What does he gain?" He does not gain anything, because he is bound up by the resultant action of his karma. So it is a great science. One has to understand. Then... But for the present... Of course, a Kṛṣṇa*-bhakta never takes the profession of a dacoitry. We have no such evidence. Rather, dacoits were made very great devotees. There are instances. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Even if he is dacoit, but Kṛṣṇa-bhakta," sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30], "he is to be considered sādhu." So it is the certificate of Kṛṣṇa. What can I do? (laughter) [break] Ārati. (end)





731018LE.BOM

Lecture at Bhāratīya Vidyā Bhavān

-

Bombay, October 18, 1973



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Śrīman Nandajī, Ladies and Gentlemen, this scarcity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness was felt long, long ago. When, before starting this movement, I tried to approach many friends in India... Sometimes I think I approached late Mr. Munshi also, when he was governor in U.P. I requested that everyone may contribute a son from the family so that I can convert him an actual brāhmaṇa. Because the education at the present moment is creating śūdras. Actually, there are two kinds of dharmas: paśu*-dharma and mānava-dharma. Paśu-dharma means eating, sleeping, sexual intercourse, and defending. This is paśu-dharma. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narānām. Eating, this is essential. Try to understand what is dharma. Dharma means which you cannot give up. Dharma does not mean you accept this dharma today and tomorrow another dharma. That is not dharma. Dharma means the natural characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet. That is its dharma. And chili is hot. That is its dharma. A snake bites. That is his dharma. Water is liquid. That is its dharma. Stone is solid. That is its dharma. You cannot change. So what is the dharma of the living entities, or the human being? Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has enunciated the dharma of the human being: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. This is dharma, that every living entity is eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. He cannot give it up. If he does not serve Kṛṣṇa, then he will have to serve māyā. Service is there. Nobody can say that "I don't serve anyone." Is there anybody who can say boldly that "I do not serve anyone?" You must serve. That is your dharma. Either you become a Christian or a Muslim or a Hindu or this or that, your real characteristic is that you have to serve. That service attitude, when it is misunderstood, it is applied to māyā, and we are not happy. When it is applied to Kṛṣṇa, then we are happy. Service you must render. That is your position. You cannot become master. Even the politicians, they promise, "I shall give you such and such service. Please give me vote." So the service is promised, because we have to serve.



*So this definition given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇa nitya-dāsa: "The real, original characteristic of the living entity is to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities, they are My parts and parcels." Just try to understand. What is the duty of the parts and parcel? Suppose this finger*-they are the parts and parcel of my body. What is the duty of the finger? The finger has to catch the foodstuff or prepare the foodstuff and put into the mouth. The finger cannot enjoy; *it has given to the stomach. Similarly, if we are parts and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we cannot enjoy anything directly without giving Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa*-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. So Kṛṣṇa also said in the Bhagavad-gītā, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge.

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*So what for Kṛṣṇa comes? Does he come to establish Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma or Christian dharma? If Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, why He should be interested in particular type of dharma, Hindu dharma, Christian dharma or Muslim dharma? No. Therefore after giving instruction throughout the whole Bhagavad*-gītā, at last says Kṛṣṇa, "The most confidential part of My instruction, Arjuna," sarva-guhyatamam, "is this: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]." This is dharma. If you are not surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa, or God, your dharma has no meaning. It is useless. And where the definition of dharma is given by Kṛṣṇa at the last stage of His instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, if one can catch up this point, then he begins bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma.



*Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāraṁ ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Kaumāra, from the very beginning of childhood, one should be taught about dharma, especially bhāgavata*-dharma, the relationship with God. Similarly, in other place it is said,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yenātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*Yena ātmā suprasīdati. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo [SB 1.2.6], highest type of religious system, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, by which one can learn how to love God*-that is dharma. Anything else, that is not dharma. That is paśu-dharma. Nandajī has invented a very nice word, mānava-dharma. So mānava-dharma means what is the distinction between mānava and paśu. That distinction is that a man eats, an animal eats; a man sleeps, an animal sleeps; a man has got sexual intercourse, animal has got sexual intercourse; *a man also tries to defend, an animal also tries to defend. So these four principles of dharma, bodily necessities of life, is equal to the man and the animal. If you manufacture very nice palatable dishes for eating, that does not mean you are advanced in civilization. No. It is eating. So what is the difference between mānava*-dharma and paśu-dharma? Mānava-dharma means what Kṛṣṇa teaches-sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is mānava-dharma. Except this, anything, that is paśu-dharma. That is paśu-dharma. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: [SB 1.1.2] "All cheating type of dharma is kicked out from this bhāgavata-dharma."



*So actually, if we are interested in mānava-dharma, we should take instruction from the authorities. Don't try to manufacture dharma. That is not possible. You cannot manufacture. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣāt bhagavat-praṇītam. Dharma means the codes given by God. That is dharma. Just like law means given by the state. You cannot manufacture law at your home. That is not possible. Nobody will care for that. Nobody will care for that. Just like on the street we have got the law, "Keep to the left." So if you say, "Why not go to the right?" you will be immediately arrested. You are criminal, because it is law by the state. By your consideration, where is the difference between going... In some countries, in England... England is "Keep to the left," India. America is "Keep to the right." So this may be changed in different countries and different laws, but law means which is given by the state. Similarly, dharma means which is given by God. You cannot manufacture dharma. That will not be applicable. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says, the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that "I descend." Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. What is that glāniḥ? When one forgets Kṛṣṇa, or God, and manufacture his own religion, paśu-dharma, he cannot be happy. That is not possible. Just like if you make your own laws, you cannot be happy. You must obey the laws of the state. Similarly, what is the law of God? That is dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣāt bhagavat-praṇītam. Dharma cannot be manufactured by any man or any demigod or any saintly person or... No. The dharma is given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, which He says as the last instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And actually it is happening all over the world. Since we have presented this dharma, to serve Kṛṣṇa, it is working very wonderfully. We have got branches all over the world, and you will find... Some of the samples you will see, those who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, these Europeans, Americans, Canadians*-we have got even branch in Iran also-Muhammadans, Christians, African. Everyone is taking to this dharma, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

*Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu enunciated, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. There is a conflagration of flame all over the world on account of godless civilization, this nonsense civilization. We have to stop it. Then you will be happy. You cannot become happy without God. That is not possible. Therefore if you actually interested to spread dharma, you take the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, standard, Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't try to interpret in a fashionable way: "This means that, that means that." No. "Kṛṣṇa" means Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means... Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Dhanañjaya, there is no more superior authority than Me." You have to accept that. Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You have to accept that. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. You have to accept that. Then you will be able to... You will be successful. Otherwise it is useless waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*You can execute your so*-called dharmas, but if it does not help you to understand what is God, then it is useless waste of time. It is useless waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. So actually, this Bhārata-varṣa is the land of dharma. Even some Communist Chinese gentleman, he has written a book... That is recommended in the New York University. He says that "If you want to know about dharma, you must go to India and learn there." We have got so facility. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Anyone who has taken birth as a human being in the land of Bhārata*-varṣa, first of all let him become perfect and distribute the knowledge all over the world. That is paropakāra.



*So I shall request that there is great need of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world. It is only one man's attempt. If persons like Nandajī and others, living persons... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21]. Nandajī is one of the śreṣṭha*-vekti of India. He was minister in the Central government. Now he is out of office. But the man is the same. I was very glad when I received the literature. I thought, "At least one man in India is thinking that India is so much downfallen." So I was very much encouraged. Otherwise I was very much discouraged that there is no human being in India, because they have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, forgotten God. Now I see there are still. So I shall request Nandajī that take the standard method as prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Then you will be successful. Not only Nandajī-anyone. The example is already there. I am preaching all over the world Bhagavad-gītā as it is. There is no fashionable interpretation. No. As it is. And how they are being accepted. So why not in this country? And in this country Kṛṣṇa consciousness is natural. It is not artificial. From the birth of a man, (he) is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Artificially he is being cut down, "Forget Kṛṣṇa." This nonsense dharma should be stopped. Take Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is being accepted all over the world. Why not in India? Why you present competitors of Kṛṣṇa? Don't do this. Take this instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You will be successful. If you manufacture something, you will never be successful. I tell you. So anyone. The standard is there, the instruction is there, everything is there. Why should we try to manufacture something new? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhayaṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. That is our process. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhanam. Simply by argument, you cannot reach the confidential part of dharma. Śrutayo vibhinnā. And if you study Vedas, that is also..., Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva, you will be puzzled. So, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. He is not a philosopher or a muni who cannot give a separate theory.

*So these things are going on. Therefore how to know what is the purpose of dharma? That is stated that dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Just follow, try to, mahājana. Who can be better mahājana than Kṛṣṇa? Is there anybody in this world still now better than Kṛṣṇa, who can give good instruction, more beneficial than Kṛṣṇa? No. There is not. So take this principle, Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, the instruction of Gītā, instruction of Kṛṣṇa, and try to follow. It will be successful not only in India, all over the world. That is my practical experience.

Thank you very much. (applause) [break] (end)



740131LE.HK

Lecture

-

Hong Kong, January 31, 1974



Prabhupāda: Next verse, go on.



*Pradyumna: (reading Sanskrit to Bhagavad*-gītā Chapter Seven, texts 2-5, devotees responding)



*jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa*-vijñānam

idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ

yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj

jñātavyam avaśiṣyate

[Bg. 7.2]



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Pradyumna: (reading)



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahareṣu

kaścit yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



Prabhupāda: Hm. Bhūmir āpo...



Pradyumna: (chanting)



bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ

khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca

ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me

bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



apareyam itas tv anyāṁ

prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām

*jīva*-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



Prabhupāda:



*mayy āsakta*-manaḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*The duty of human life is to understand God, Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedānta*-sūtra, the first aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā. Athaḥ, "therefore.'' Because we have got this human form of body, so this is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. In the other life, animal life, beast life, tree life, plant life... There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and through evolutionary process we have passed through 8,000,000 forms of life or a few thousand more forms of life, because human beings, they are of 400,000 forms of life. Just like we have got experience over this planet there are different forms of life, different system of religion, different system of culture, even though all of them are of human form life, similarly, there are other forms of life-aquatics in the water; in the jungle, trees, plants, mountains; and then insects, reptiles, ants; *then birds, flies. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa the description is there what are the different forms of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni. In the water there are 900,000 forms of life. Who knows that? But in the Vedic śāstra everything perfectly calculated is given there. This is called Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means perfect knowledge. There is no (indistinct) who can calculate how many forms of life are within the ocean. But from the Vedic literature you get just exact conclusion-900,000 species of life. The botanists, they cannot say how many forms of trees and plants are there. But in the Vedas you'll find sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati-2,000,000's forms of life, of trees and plants. Sthāvara. Sthāvara means the living entities which cannot move, stand in one place. This is a punishment, those who are too much dull. Means..., dull means cannot understand what is God. That is dullness. Otherwise for eating, sleeping, sex life and defense there is no need of university education. Nobody goes to the university to learn how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex life and how to defend. There is no education required, because these four kinds of bodily necessities of life are known even to the animals. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. How to eat, the animal knows. Even the newborn child who has no education, no experience, he still... Even the cats and dogs, cubs, as soon as born, they find out the nipples of their mother and eat or suck. Even the eyes are blind at that time, but still he knows where is their food. Similarly, human child also knows.



*So for eating, sleeping, mating and defending, there is no need of education. Education means athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is education. How to know the Supreme Absolute Truth-that is education. But the university, they are educating people how to eat, how to sleep. Eh? They are manufacturing so many eatables, different types of eatables, although God has given immense foodstuffs for human society. Just like these fruits, they are made for human beings. They are not eatables for the cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. So eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has supplied, He is supplying immense foodstuffs for all living entities. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. But there is allotment for the pig-the foodstuff is stool*-and for the human being, the foodstuff-fruits, flowers, foodgrains, milk, sugar. So as God has allotted, you use that for your eating. Eating is required. Then your life is successful. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Do not try to imitate others. Do not try to imitate the hog and the pig to eat stool. That is not human bodies' foodstuff. You eat your own foodstuff. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ. This is life. Food is already there, but the difficulty is that we do not know that we should be satisfied with the foodstuff allotted to us by God. Īśāvāsya. The foodstuff belongs to Kṛṣṇa, God. You cannot manufacture in the factory this nice foodstuff-apple, orange, banana and others, so many hundreds and thousands. So therefore the only business of human form of life is to inquire about the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Lord, the Supreme Being. That should be our inquiry. That should be the subject matter of education. Not how to eat, how to sleep, how to mate. These things do not require education. Because the animals, they also know. So everyone knows what is his foodstuff, how to sleep. When there is..., you feel sleepy, he does not ask for "Give me a good apartment, good bedstead.'' You'll lie down anywhere and enjoy sleeping. Similarly, how to enjoy sex life, nobody requires university education. So if we waste our time simply for being enlightened how to manufacture different types of foodstuff, how to take it on table and chair, nice dishes or plate, that is waste of time. If you utilize your time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth, that is perfection of human life. Not to waste your time in the animal propensities of life. That is not education, that is not human form of life.

*So that education will be complete if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is being taught in the Seventh Chapter by Kṛṣṇa Himself. What is that? Mayy āsakta*-manaḥ pārtha: "You have to become always absorbed or attached on Me,'' on Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta. Āsakta means attachment. We have got attachment for so many things. We have got attachment for our family, for our country, for our society, for our business, for our cats, for our dogs, so many things. But we have no attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is lacking. Therefore life is imperfect. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanusthitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*Everyone is performing his duty very nicely. That is..., Bhāgavata says, dharma*-svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. Everyone has got his duty, either as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra, as a brahmacārī, as a gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsī. This is Vedic eight divisions of social life, human life, varṇāśrama-dharma. Unless one comes to this institutional progress of life, varṇa and āśrama, they are animals. Human life begins from these eight divisions of occupational duties. A brāhmaṇa must execute his duty, a kṣatriya must execute his duty, vaiśya... They are all described in the Bhagavad-gītā, what are the duties of brāhmaṇas: satya śamaḥ damaḥ tapaḥ ārjavam jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Kṣatriya-tejaḥ śauryaṁ yuddhe ca apalāyanam. Vaiśya-kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Śūdra-paricaryātmakaṁ karyam śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam. Everything is there. So if everyone discharges his duty properly, then his life becomes successful. So on the whole, everything is required. The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-these are different divisions, but what for the divisions are meant for? The division is meant for understanding God, Kṛṣṇa. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭha varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. These instructions are given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that everyone has got a particular type of duty as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, like that. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭha varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Division of varṇa and āśrama. And everyone has got his duty. So how the duty is perfected? How to know that? That is stated,



ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭha

*varṇāśrama*-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

*saṁsiddhiṁ hari*-toṣaṇam



Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. You are acting your duty as a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, that's all right, śūdra, but you have to see whether Kṛṣṇa, or God, is satisfied by your duty. If you see that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied by your discharging of duties in a particular position, then you should know that your life is perfect. Otherwise, śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply undergoing unnecessary troubles.



*So how you can understand whether Kṛṣṇa or God is satisfied by discharging your particular type of duty? That is Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself: mayy āsakta*-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. You have to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta. Āsakta means attachment. You should be attached to your business not for the business' sake but for the attachment of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is to be satisfied. Generally we do business for my satisfaction, for my family satisfaction, for government satisfaction, for income tax satisfaction and so many satisfaction. But when you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa or increase your attachment for His satisfaction, then your business is perfect. Mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhi.. Everyone wants perfection; *otherwise what is the use of jumping like cats and dogs? That is not meant for human being, unnecessarily jumping and dancing. You must dance for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is... There is tendency for dancing, for chanting, for singing. They are holding ball dances, and musical instruments. The same thing we are propagating-chant and dance Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is satisfaction. This is satisfaction. Our movement is not dry. We are simply asking people, "Chant, dance, eat nice foodstuffs, take prasādam and go home.'' It is not dry, because the same tendency is there. Everyone goes to the hotel, everyone goes to the nightclub, eats sumptuously and dances with musical instruments, enjoys the same thing-but in connection with Kṛṣṇa. You take prasādam, you chant, you dance and enjoy life, but in connection with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful. Your life is successful. That is Kṛṣṇa also saying, mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. This is the yoga, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement*-the topmost yoga. There are many yogis, you might have seen, for gymnastics of the body. That is not perfection of yoga. That is yoga, a kind of yoga, but there are different kinds of yoga systems, bhakti-yoga, jñāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, rāja-yoga, so many. But Kṛṣṇa says,

yoginām api sarveṣām

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*"That yogi's perfect who's always thinking of Me,'' mayy āsakta*-manaḥ. This is being taught. "Always thinking.'' And Bhagavad-gītā, in another different place it is said, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mam evaiṣyasi. Asaṁśaya. The aim of life should be, especially of the human body, that try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And as far as possible... Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood fully because He is unlimited, and we have got limited knowledge. But still, as far as possible and as much as possible, if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa, janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Kṛṣṇa advents Himself, comes on this planet. He executes so many duties, takes part in so many occupational functions as human being, but everything is full of instructions. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't try to understand, even that is also good superficially, but in truth.'' Janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ means "in truth, in fact.'' So if anyone... Janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. Divyam means His birth is not ordinary birth. If it had been ordinary birth, then why we are still performing the Janmāṣṭamī ceremony, Kṛṣṇa's birthday ceremony? Many big, big kings came and gone. Who is performing the birthday ceremony of that king? But we perform according to Vedic system the birthday ceremony of Lord Rāmacandra. Nowadays we have imitated so many other birthday ceremonies, but in the śāstra it is enjoined the birthday ceremony of the advent of God should be observed. The birthday ceremony of God is called jayantī. That is special constellation of the stars. But now the jayantī has been used for so many rascals and fools. This is not śāstric. So because Kṛṣṇa's janma and ordinary man's janma is not the same thing, therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. Divyam means transcendental, not material. Not material. It is spiritual or transcendental, divyam. Janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Still you have to learn it in truth.



So if you learn this science, simply to understand why Kṛṣṇa advents, why Kṛṣṇa takes part in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra or other activities just like a human being... Why? If you try to understand this fact... That can be known. They are all mentioned in the śāstra. The sādhus, they know; *the guru, he knows. So if you want to be learned in the science you can become, because śāstra is there, guru is there, and sādhu is there. Sādhu-śāstra*-guru-vākya. Then you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why He advents, why His activities are transcendental. So if you try to understand these things, then what will be the result? Result will be tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this body, no more material body. No more material body means no more death. The death takes place on account of this material body; otherwise the living entity, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Living entity is eternal; *he does not die, he does not take birth. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Eternal. Then why he dies? That death is of this material body, not of the eternal soul. So although we are eternal, nityaḥ śāśvataḥ, still we have to accept different types of body. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. So this transmigration of the soul from one body to another is not very good business. Who wants to die? Nobody wants to die. But he has to die. He must die. There is no question of he likes or not likes. Nobody wants to take birth, again enter into the womb of mother. And nowadays it is very risky, because mother is killing the child: the ultimate end of Kali*-yuga. The mother's shelter, a child feels very happy on the lap of mother, and that is the arrangement of nature. Mother should take care of the child. But in this age the people are so, I mean to say, contaminated that even mother is killing child. Just imagine what is the position of birth and death. Birth and death is not very good business. Therefore if you want to stop this birth and death then take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, try to understand Kṛṣṇa.

janma karma ca me divyam

evam yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktva dehaṁ punar janma

naiti (mām eti so 'rjuna)

[Bg. 4.9]



*Punar janma naiti. You can stop your birth and death. And if you stop your birth and death, then you stop your disease and old age. That eternity*-you are eternal. You get your eternal life. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The eternal..., even if we get this material body, even though we change this material body, just like I was a baby, you were a baby, but that body is no longer existing. I am in different body, still I am existing. Therefore na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Although the body has changed, I am not changed. This is my position. Therefore perfection of life means to keep oneself in his original, constitutional position, not to change body. But that is possible. How it is possible? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Everything is there. How it is possible?



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*If you want to go to the higher planetary systems by pious activities, you can go there, yānti deva*-vratā devān. You can go to the planet where Lord Brahma lives or where Indra lives or Candra lives. The modern process, by taking a sputnik or jet, you can go to the moon planet. But that you can go. Whether you can go or not go, that is up to you. But you cannot stay there. That is not possible. If you want to stay there, then yānti deva-vratā devān. You have to prepare yourself by worshiping that particular deva or deity, demigod; *then you will be admitted. Just like if you want to go to a foreign country you have to take the permission of the immigration department, visa, then you can go. If that law is there in this planet, why not for other planet? How you can go abruptly, by force? That is not possible. Yānti deva-vratā devān. You have to prepare yourself to go. You can go there. But after this life, if you are sufficiently prepared to enter that particular type of planet, you can go there. Similarly, you can go to the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. So what is the difference between going to the higher planetary systems, heavenly planet, and going to the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives? The difference is, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. If you go to the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives, then you haven't got to come back again. Otherwise, in other planets, in the heavenly planets, kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. You can live there, just like you can live in a foreign country so long your visa continues. Simply... Similarly, you can go to the higher, heavenly planets, but you can live there up to the point of visa, puṇya. By pious activities you can go to the higher planetary systems, but by impious activities you go to the lower planets. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā [Bg. 14.18]. So even if you go to Brahma-loka, Indra-loka-ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartinao 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]*-you have to come back again. But, yad gatvā na nivartante, tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. If you go to that planet, yad gatvā na nivartante, one does not require to come back again. "That is My real abode.'' Tad dhāma paramam. Every dhāma is Kṛṣṇa's, but that is the parama dhāma, supreme dhāma. Just like the king. The kingdom belongs to the king, but still he has got his special royal house, palace. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of all planets, sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29], but He still has got His own planet. That is called Gokula Vṛndāvana.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a movement to educate people how to go back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. So our request is that you take advantage of this movement. Don't be fully simply absorbed in the activities of animal life*-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. This is also required, but under regulation. Eating is not prohibited in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but eating is regulated. Don't eat anything without Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. Oh, Kṛṣṇa prasādam, there are so many varieties nice foodstuff. Be satisfied taking Kṛṣṇa's prasādam so your eating problem will be solved and you will advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to go back to home, back to Godhead. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement for the human society, and this is not a Utopian thing. It is authorized. For every action of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there is support from Vedas, Vedic literature. Just like whenever we speak something we immediately give evidence from the Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that something, "In my opinion it is...'' No. We have no opinion. We don't give our opinion. We present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all. As Kṛṣṇa says, we say the same thing. We have no difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat, kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. "There is no more superior truth than Kṛṣṇa,'' Kṛṣṇa says. We accept that. We preach that, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. If you are searching after God, that is your duty. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is your human life's business, to search out the truth, Absolute Truth. Then that is Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is indirectly said, "The Absolute Truth is janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], from whom everything is generated.'' That is Absolute Truth. That answer is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everything.'' Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Somebody may say the demigods like Lord Brahma, Siva, they are the beginning demigods. But Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām. "The all the demigods, but their beginning, they are also coming from Me.'' Sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. These things are there. So we are teaching that. It is not difficult. We are not manufacturing anything by fertile brain. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, preaching the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. The Bhāgavata is also further explanation of Bhagavad-gītā, Vedānta-sūtra explanation.

So we have got immense literature. We have already published more than twenty books. If you want to understand the Absolute Truth by philosophy, by science, there are books. Otherwise, the easy method is chant Hare Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So God has given you the tongue, and it doesn't matter whether you are Indian or American or Englishman, German or African. Everyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is actually being done. In Africa they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In Australia they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In Europe they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In Asia they are accustomed to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. The chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is going on all over the world. Take advantage of it. Don't miss this opportunity, and make your life successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Any questions? Any questions?

Devotee: Does anyone have any questions? Feel free to ask if you do.



Prabhupāda: No questions? Everything understood? No difficulty in understanding? Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Try to clear if it is not understood. I have spoken nothing which is not understandable, but still, if you have not understood, you can put your question. Hm. All right, then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you have any question, you can ask.



*Indian man: Five thousand years (indistinct). How many more years will Kali*-yuga will stand?



*Prabhupāda: Four hundred and twenty*-seven thousands of years. The complete age of Kali-yuga is 432,000's years. Out of that, the Kali-yuga has begun from the date of Battle of Kurukṣetra, historical. So we have passed 5,000 years from the date of Battle of Kurukṣetra. Therefore 432,000's of years minus 5,000's of years, the remaining age-427,000's of years. This is practically the beginning of Kali-yuga. Now the more the age of Kali-yuga will increase, the sufferings of Kali-yuga will also increase. At the end of Kali-yuga there will be no food supply. There will be no more food grains, no more fruits, no more milk, no more sugar. These things are stated. And everyone will be obliged to take meat and roots. Gradually the condition of the people will be so dull that they'll not be able to understand what is God. At the present, even in the beginning, even 5,000 years have passed, people cannot understand actually what is God. A vague idea. They do not know actually what is the nature of God. So gradually it will be forgotten. But still, because still people have got some sense, therefore this preaching work is going on. At the end they will be all nonsense, just like animals. Therefore there will be another incarnation, Kalki, at the end of Kali-yuga. He'll simply kill the whole population.



*mleccha*-nivaha-nidhane kalayasi karavālaṁ

dhūmaketum iva kim api karālam

*keśava dhṛta*-kalki-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare



*Mleccha. Mleccha means misbehaved. As we say-mleccha, yavana. One who does not follow the Vedic principles, they are called mleccha. And those who are meat-eaters, they are called yavana, mleccha, yavana. This is the meaning of mleccha, yavana. It is not a particular class of men. Anyone who eats meat, he's a yavana, and anyone who does not live to the standard of Vedic understanding, he is a mleccha. So everyone will become mleccha. So mleccha-nivaha-nidhane kalayasi karavālam. The Lord will become very much vicious. Asi karavālam. Just like dhūmaketuh, comet. Dhūmaketum iva kim api karālam nidhane. Mleccha-nidhane. That will be the only remedy-to kill all the mlecchas. The avatāra, Kalki avatāra will come. Keśava dhṛta buddha śarīra, ah, keśava dhṛta kalki śarīra. Buddha śarīra is also, keśava dhṛta buddha śarīra, to give protection to the poor animals. Lord Buddha appeared to stop animal-killing. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ. Lord Buddha, he declined to accept Vedic authority. Why? Because in the Vedas also there is sanction sometimes in yajña, animal sacrifice. But he wanted to stop animal sacrifice, animal-killing. Therefore he denied the authority of Vedas. Because people will give evidence that "You are preaching no animal-killing, but in the Vedas sometimes in sacrifice the animals are sacrificed. How you can stop this?'' Therefore Lord Buddha had to deny the authority of Vedas. That is described, nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal-killing is described in the Vedas, in the yajña-vidher, not in the slaughterhouse. In the Yajña-vidher. That also was decried. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Because according to Vedic civilization, śruti, Veda, is the evidence. Therefore if Lord Buddha accepts the authority of Vedas, he cannot say, "Stop animal-killing.'' Then he said, "No. I do not follow Vedic principles.'' Therefore he is called nāstika. Anyone who defies the authority of Vedas, he is called nāstika. Sri Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says, veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika. On account of denying the authority of Vedas, the Buddhas became nāstika. Vedāśraya nāstikya-vāda bauddhake adhika. And those who are lip-sympathy vedī-"I am following Vedic principles'' and doing all nonsense*-they are lower than these nāstika. Lower than the nāstika. Veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika. So Lord Buddha appeared to stop animal-killing, ahiṁsā. He did not say anything more. His only mission was, "Let these rascals first of all stop this animal-killing, they'll understand further about spiritual advancement.'' Those who are animal killer, they cannot understand anything about spiritual advancement. That is not possible. Therefore this thing must be stopped first. That is Buddha philosophy. But in spite of that... (end)





731110LE.DEL

Pandal Speech and Question Session

-

Delhi, November 10, 1973



*Prabhupāda: Mr. High Commissioner and Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here, taking so much trouble, to participate in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And I shall simply try to draw your attention about the importance of this movement. Importance of this movement is this, that we do not know what is the aim of life. The modern civilization, all over the world, especially in the Western world*-nobody knows what is the actual problem and what is the aim of life. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, "The real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9], that birth, death, old age and disease, these are the problems." If you take birth, then you will have to die. Anyone who takes birth, he must have to die. And so long, between birth and death, there is old age and disease. Actually, these are the problems. So far we are concerned, living entities, every one of us, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "The living entity is never born, never dies." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "The living entity is eternal, ever-existing and very old, and," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, "it does not die after the annihilation of this body." But the modern civilization, they are thinking that "This body we have got somehow or other, a lump of matter, and so long we have got this body, let us enjoy life, sense gratification." This is atheistic theory.



*In our country there were atheists also. Just like Cārvāka Muni. According to his philosophy, he says, ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. Because in our country, India, life is enjoyable when we get to eat too much ghee. You see, pakhika anna (?). That is enjoyment. Just like in Western countries, if they can eat, they can drink more, that is life's enjoyment. In our country, of course. So ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. If somebody says that "I have no money," so Cārvāka Muni says that "You take loan from your friend and purchase ghee and enjoy life." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. "So long you will live, live happily. Why... Make beg, borrow, steal and live happily." "No. I shall be responsible. I shall have to pay next life." Cārvāka Muni says, "No, no. Don't bother about next life." Bhasmī*-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet: "Your body will be burned in the crematorium. That finished. That's all." This foolishness is there, that this life... We do not know that this human form of life we have got by the evolutionary process, going through so many lives. Just like in our present life we can understand that I have come to this body, old body, through child's body, boy's body, youth's body, in this way. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is not manufactured.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāra yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*You have to accept this, dehāntara*-prāpti, from one body to another. Where is my childhood body? That is gone. Where is my boyhood body? That is gone. Where is my youthhood body? That is gone. Not only for me, for everyone. There is past, present and future. Similarly, when this body will be gone, I will get another body. Where is the difficulty to understand? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dhīra. Because we are not sober... There are two classes of men: dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means sober, thinking, thoughtful, and adhīra means restless. So with restless brain, it is difficult, but if you have got sober brain, then there is no difficulty to understand that "I am eternal. I was in the child's body, I was in the baby's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in a young man's body. Now I have got a different body. I am living asmin dehe." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. It is very easy to understand, but Kṛṣṇa says, dhīras tatra na muhyati: "Those who are sober, they can understand."



*So people cannot understand. That means the modern civilization is not sober. It is just like cats and dogs. You cannot make a cat and dog sober to understand the philosophy of life. They have degraded so much. That is described in the śāstra. Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Ātma-buddhiḥ, thinking "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am black," "I am white," "I am fat," "I am thin," "I am this." No, no. You are not this body at all. That is knowledge. That is knowledge. Knowledge begins when you understand that you are not this body. That is the beginning of knowledge. Otherwise, "I am this body," this knowledge is there in the cats and dogs also. The dog also jumping, because he is thinking, "I am very nice dog," or "Nice cat." So śāstra therefore says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. This body is a bag of three elements-kapha, pitta, vāyu-according to Ayurveda system. This physiological condition, anatomical condition of this body, is made of kapha, pitta, vāyu. So it is a bag of kapha, pitta, vāyu, or flesh, bones, blood, urine, stool, and mucus. If you dissect this body, you will find. Do you mean to say combination of these things can make a life, so nice brain? If you are so competent, then take these ingredients, bones, flesh. They are easily available in the slaughterhouse. Make a good brain. But that is not possible. They simply speak, but it is not possible. Therefore this body is not the... Moving spirit soul, that is different. Therefore śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhiḥ. And as soon as you take this body, that "I am this body," then, in bodily relation... Because a woman has got bodily relation, "She is my wife," and the children born out of the womb of that woman, "That is my children..." Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Bhauma means the land where we live or where this body is produced. That is worshipable. That is called nationalism. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit. And tīrtha, holy place... Just like people go to Vṛndāvana, Hardwar. Salile. They take birth in the Ganges and the Yamunā, and they think that "Now we have finished our tīrtha." No. Tīrtha is not that. Tīrtha means we have to find out sober person to take instruction from him. So people who are not interested to the sober man and lives like this, that "I am this body, and the bodily production or relation, they are my own men, and if I go to holy place, take bath and then come back..." No. Śāstra says, "No." Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣu abhijñeṣu. You must approach abhijñaḥ person. That is the meaning of pilgrimage. As the Vedas says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. You must find out a sober man or guru so that he can instruct you, he can deliver you from ignorance of life.

*So you'll find in this Bhagavad*-gītā, when there was talks going on between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, friendly talks... Arjuna was speaking, "Let them enjoy this kingdom. I don't want to fight with my own men." That was his decision. Kṛṣṇa said, "No, no. This is not your duty. You are a kṣatriya. Now you are in the battlefield. You must fight." In this way, ordinary topics were going on. But when Arjuna saw it very difficult to understand, "Whether I shall fight or not fight?" he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Because he thought that "Friendly talks will not make solution. Let me accept Kṛṣṇa as my..." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Prapannam: "I surrender unto You. You are my guru. Now You are not my friend; You are my guru." Because a disciple cannot disobey the guru. A friend can disobey. Kṛṣṇa is asking to fight. As a friend, he was disobeying. But if a guru says that "You must fight," then you cannot disobey. Therefore he accepted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam.

So actually we are all in the ignorance. The same formula:

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go*-kharaḥ. Go means cow and khara means ass. This is the verdict of the śāstra, that "If anyone is in the bodily concept of life, he is not better than the animals go and khara, ass and cow." So this ignorance, when this ignorance prevails, that is called dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. Kṛṣṇa said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. When people are become like cats and dogs, the bodily concept of life, and working whole day and night without any spiritual understanding, without the aim of life... So this human life is not meant for that purpose. This is the mistake. It is not that the dogs and cats are eating in a different way. Now we eat in a nice table, in nice plate, and very nicely dressed, and you are eating... But eating process is there. Either you nicely eat or wrongly eat, but you have to fulfill your bell(y) and satisfy your hunger. That is not advancement of civilization. To eat nicely, to sleep nicely, to defend nicely and to have sexual life nicely, that is not advancement of civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narāṇām. Sexual intercourse with beautiful woman and sexual intercourse with the female dog, the pleasure is the same. That is not advancement of civilization. Advancement of civilization is ātma-tattvam. Ātma-tattva. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Śrotavyādīni rājendra [SB 2.1.2]. Mahārāja Parīkṣit asked Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "Now I am going to die. What is my duty? What I shall hear from?" So at that time Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "My dear King," śrotavyādīni, nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2], that "Those who are gṛhamedhī..." Gṛhamedhī means has made the home, country, society, family as the only means of advancement. They are called gṛhamedhī. But there is another word, what is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama. Brahmacārī āśrama, gṛhastha āśrama, vānaprastha āśrama, sannyāsa āśrama. Āśrama. As soon as... Any common man can understand. As soon as we say āśrama, there is some spiritual idea. Āśrama. Here is a āśrama. So gṛhastha āśrama is different, and gṛhamedhī is different. Gṛha-medhī means one who does not know what is the ultimate goal of life and living like... Cats and dogs also, they live with their children, wife. They also find out food. They also try to defend, protect. Simply with these ideas, if we live, that is called gṛhamedhī. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2].



*Therefore our Vedānta*-sūtra is there to give enlightenment. As our student Śrīman Pradyumna dāsa Adhikārī said, athāto brahma jijñāsā, this life is not meant for wasting time like cats and dog. Because after all, we have to give up this life. But before giving up this life, we must gain something. That is described in the Upaniṣad. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa brāhmaṇaḥ. We'll have to die like cats and dogs, but we have got the chance to understand what is the value of life. The cats and dogs have no chance. So simply if we waste our time like cats and dogs and do not know what is the aim of life-sa kṛpaṇa. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti, aviditvā yaḥ prayāti sa kṛpaṇaḥ. There are two things: brāhmaṇa and kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser. A person who got this valuable body... Just like if you get millions of dollars, if you do not utilize it, if you simply see in the treasury that you have got so much money, then you are kṛpaṇa. It is practical. But if you utilize that money and instead of one crore you make ten crores, then you are called intelligent. Similarly, if we think that "I have got this human form of life, better standard of eating, sleeping and mating," then you remain kṛpaṇa. You could not utilize it. But if you know in this life, which is possible, "What is the value of this life? What is Brahman? What I am? What is my connection with Brahman? Why I have come here? Where I shall go again? Why I am put into the miserable condition of life? I do not wish to die. Why death is enforced upon me?" this is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry, "Why?" Therefore there is a Kena Upaniṣad, "Why?" Unless this "why" inquiry comes in the human body, then he is failure. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Whatever we are doing, we are being defeated, because we are doing everything in ignorance. "I am this body." "This is my country." "This is my kinsmen." And in this way I die like cats and dogs.

So Kṛṣṇa says,

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya...

[Bg. 4.7]



Adharmasya. What is that dharma? Kṛṣṇa says,



paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

*dharma*-saṁsthāpanārthāya

yuge yuge sambhavāmi

[Bg. 4.8]



*So what is that dharma? Dharma, it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, the simple description of dharma is "the codes which are given by God." It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu, Muslim or Christian or any. Everyone, any civilized man has got some religion. Because dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If you haven't got no religion... It doesn't matter whether Hindu religion, Muslim religion. You must have some religion. Religion means to understand God. That is religion. Religion does not mean I manufacture something. No. You cannot manufacture religion. Religion means... Just like you cannot manufacture laws. Law is given by the state, by the government. Similarly, religion means the codes, the orders given by God. Therefore you must know what is God, what is His order and how to carry out it. Then you will be success..., your life is successful. Otherwise, just like the cats and dogs, they do not know how to carry out the laws of the state... Of course, they are excused. The "Keep to the right," "Keep to the left," the cats and dogs, they can violate. Law is not meant for the cats and dogs. Law is meant for the human being. Therefore the cats and dogs, if they violate the codes of God, the law of God, they can be excused because they are animals. But a human being, he has got the developed consciousness. If he does not utilize this body for understanding "What is God? What I am? What is my relationship with God? How to act? Wherefrom I have come? Where to go..." There are so many questions. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is meant for brahma-jijñāsā.



*Now, where to jijñāsā? That is called Vedic injunction. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tad-vijñānārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science, one must have to go to the bona fide guru. And who is guru? Guru is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. And anyone who represents that Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is guru. Guru means representative of God. Therefore according to Vedic śāstra, guru is worshiped like God. This is... Just like my disciples, they have given this seat and..., almost equally with God's seat. That is the injunction. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Guru should be worshiped as God, but guru will never claim that he is God. That is not guru. Guru will always claim that he is servant of God. Because the śiṣyas worship him as... Śiṣya... Guru does not say that "You simply worship me." He directs that "You worship God." But because one gets God's connection through guru, therefore guru is worshiped as God. Just like in our country there was viceroy. He was given the same respect as the king because he is representative of..., the royal representative. Similarly, śāstra says,

sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair

uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*This is the offering obeisance to guru. Guru is described as respectable as the Supreme Personality of God. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt [SB 11.17.27]. The Supreme Personality of Godhead says that "Ācārya should be accepted as I am. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryopāsanam. So therefore we have to receive the knowledge in the disciplic succession of ācārya. That is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Rājarṣayaḥ. This knowledge, they were understood by the rājarṣi. Rājarṣi means king; *at the same time, saintly person. Not the king and robber, dasyu-dharma, imply exacting taxes, "Come on, give me tax, and you go to hell." That is not king. That is not government. It is government's duty to make... The government should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and it is government's duty to see that everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious*-you say "Kṛṣṇa" or "God"; it doesn't matter. If you think that "Let the people go to hell. It doesn't matter. Bring taxes and let us enjoy, and you go to hell..." It is very horrible condition.



So everywhere this is going on; therefore there is necessity of awakening this God consciousness of the people. It is not a childish thing or sentimental fanaticism. It is real science. Because this human life is meant for understanding "What I am," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul." Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. If you can educate people to become brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20], then prasannātmā, he becomes happy, jolly. Just like these American boys, American girls, they were many, many times in better condition of life. Now they are wandering with me. What can I give them? I cannot give them nice food. I cannot give them nice shelter. Neither I have money. They are coming. They are all rich men's sons, but they are after me. Why? Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. They have got something. They are feeling obliged that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has given us something." That is... Therefore they are after me. So this is the Brahmā cond..., brahma-bhūta ātmā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. That is the sign. "I have become Brahman. I have become Nārāyaṇa." No. If you are prasanna, if you are always joyful, then it is to be understood that you have realized Brahman. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati. There is no śocana. Here in the material world I have got something. If I lose it, I cry, "I have lost, I have lost, I have lost." And if I do not possess, then kāṅkṣati, "I must get it. I must." These two businesses are going on. But when you become brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, these two things will go away. Na kāṅkṣati na śocati.

*And samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: equally seeing all living entities. Paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Brahma-bhūta means he is learned scholar, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, self-realized; *therefore he has no such distinction that "Give protection to the human being and send the poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Equality." What equality? What the poor animals have done that you are sending them to the slaughterhouse? Is that civilization, this rubbish civilization, maintaining hundreds and thousands of slaughterhouse? So simply speaking "love," "fraternity..." Where is your fraternity? Where is your love? This cannot be possible. This may be big talks only*-but to be understood by the nonsense. Unless you become brahma-bhūta [SB 4.30.20], self-realized, Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, these things are only stories. It is not possible. This is the description in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



Then he becomes a devotee. To become devotee is not so easy thing. Not so easy thing. People think that devotion is a sentiment. No. It is not sentiment. It is a great science. It is a great science to become fully satisfied. Fully satisfied. And Kṛṣṇa says,



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*This is the process of śānti. Bhoktāraṁ. Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. We are after worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is our business. Wherever we go, we install this Kṛṣṇa Deity and we work for Kṛṣṇa, we print books for Kṛṣṇa, we distribute books for Kṛṣṇa, we beg everyone to become Kṛṣṇa's bhakta. Therefore it is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other business than Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We are doing that. We have no other business. Simply Kṛṣṇa. Why? Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavata, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "I am the Supreme."



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhava

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



*Only the learned scholars can worship Kṛṣṇa. Only the learned scholar, self*-realized soul, can understand Bhagavad-gītā. Not by the politicians and the so-called scholar. No. It is not possible.



*Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement. We appeal to the sober class, dhīra, not the adhīra. We also accepting dhīra and adhīra by the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by the mercy of the Gosvāmīs. Dhīradhīra. Dhīra and adhīra. Just like these boys and girls, they were adhīra. Now they are dhīra. Adhīra. Adhīra means without any responsibility, doing all nonsense. Actually they are rich nation's sons and daughters. They are doing ev..., but now they have become dhīra. "No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. Yes, sir." This is dhīra. You are already intoxicated. You are already illusioned in this material world. If you still go on drinking, where is the possibility of knowledge? You must have sober brain to understand. So this is going on. Therefore my appeal to all the sober men: to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and join it for the benefit of his personal self, for the benefit of his country, for the benefit of the whole human society.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]



*Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But people did not take it very seriously. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came as a devotee in the form of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to teach people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the... Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, He demanded that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, but people did not take it very seriously. Therefore He again came, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Just like some servant is massaging your legs, but you do not like it. You sometimes take his leg, "You do like this, do like this, do like this." So that master has not become servant, but he's teaching how to massage. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He is teaching rascals like us how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the difference.

British man: No. What I'm trying to ask is that if the Vedic scriptures were written about five thousand years ago...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



British man: ...then how is it just only five hundred years ago somebody came to impart what was written five thousand years ago?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. As soon as it becomes too much deteriorated, then Kṛṣṇa comes Himself or sends His representative to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It may be five thousand years or five lakhs of years or five days. That doesn't matter. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya. Whenever there is discrepancy. It doesn't matter. It does not depend on the historical dates. When there is necessity. When there is necessity. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. At that time. So although Kṛṣṇa consciousness was introduced five thousand years ago by Kṛṣṇa Himself, but it deteriorated. (end)





740314LE.VRN

Lecture

-

Vṛndāvana, March 14, 1974



Prabhupāda: So we are all very fortunate that different nations, from different parts of the world, are now combined together in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Some of you, you have come from Europe: England, France, Germany, Holland, Rome. Similarly, you have come from America: New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco; Canada: Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver; Africa: Nairobi, South Africa. So it is very good example that you have come from different parts of the world to join in the Saṅkīrtana movement. That is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu predicted,



pṛthivīte āche yata nagāradi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*He said that all over the world, as many towns and villages are there, the name of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu will be known. So His prediction was never to be foiled. So by His grace it is now becoming fulfilled. This is the real platform of United Nations. They are trying for United Nations, working for the last thirty years, but they have not been successful, neither they will ever be successful. That is our prediction. Yes. They'll never be successful. Because you cannot be united on the material platform. That is not possible. Because on the material platform... Material platform means on the bodily concept of life: "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra." All... So many, "I am." All designation. So on the platform of designation there is not possibility of unity. That is not possible. Unity's possible on the spiritual platform. Those who are under the concept of this body, "I am this body," they have been described in the śāstra as go*-kharaḥ. Go means cows, and kharaḥ means ass. Sa eva go-kharaḥ.



*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



Go means cows, and kharaḥ means ass.



*So this Vṛndāvana tīrtha, if somebody comes here with the bodily concept of life, he does not derive any benefit. Yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. Salila means water. Just like generally people come here, take their bathing in the Yamunā River, and they think, "Now my business is finished. I came to Vṛndāvana. Now I have taken my bath in the Yamunā River and purchased some things from here. Now let me go home. I have finished my tīrtha." But śāstra says, "No. That is not tīrtha." Janeṣv abhijñeṣu. If you want to purify yourself, then in the tīrtha you must find out abhijña. Abhijña means one who knows. One who knows. What that knowing? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. One who must know who is Kṛṣṇa. This morning I met one gentleman. So in his house I saw that "Prabhu." So I asked him, "Who is that prabhu?" So he says, "He has no name." Just see the fun. He's living in Vṛndāvana. He does not know the name of prabhu. Just see his position. Prabhu is Kṛṣṇa. Prabhu means īśvara. Īśvara means controller. A prabhu means proprietor. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat

kiñcid asti dhanañjaya

[Bg. 7.7]



Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. These words are there. And he's living in Vṛndāvana; he does not know who is his prabhu. This thing is going on. (aside:) You can go behind him. Yes. This man is... You are dozing. Hm.



*So, so long one will remain in the bodily concept of life, he cannot understand prabhu, or Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. So to understand this prabhu it requires many, many births. That is also said in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Because foolish persons cannot understand prabhu. Another place Kṛṣṇa says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuriṁ*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*So this... We, our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to understand the prabhu, who is prabhu, who is the master, who is the Supreme Absolute. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement: to understand the supreme prabhu, or master, or controller, and surrender unto Him. This is the process, simple process. That prabhu you can under..., cannot understand by mental speculation. That is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na bahunā śrutena. There are many Vedantists, many scholars in Vedic literature, but they do not know who is his prabhu. They will say, "prabhu," but I ask him, "Who is your prabhu?" That they cannot say. Or they will not utter the name of the prabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They will charge, they will call, "Brahmā," "Caitanya," "Paramātmā," "Prabhu," but he will never utter the name of Kṛṣṇa. This is their disease. This is called Māyāvāda disease. Therefore, because people are so poor in knowledge, alpa*-medhasaḥ, brain substance is very little, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa Himself appeared as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



That was detected by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī:

*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*"My Lord, You are the most munificent incarnation, because people cannot understand even Kṛṣṇa, but You are distributing freely the love of Kṛṣṇa, the highest perfection of life, love of Kṛṣṇa." One may know Kṛṣṇa, but it is very difficult to know the love of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī*-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā. Rūpa Gosvāmī... About the Gosvāmīs... They knew what is Kṛṣṇa, what is love of Kṛṣṇa. They wrote many books-Vidagdha-mādhava, Lalita-mādhava, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Actually... Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So actually to understand Kṛṣṇa, one has to follow the footprints of the six Gosvāmīs:



*śrī*-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha,

*śrī*-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha



ei chaya gosāñi yāra tāra mui dāsa

*tāṅ sabāra pada*-reṇu mora pañca-grāsa



*You have to accept the six Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana, who came here, who discovered Vṛndāvana. This Vṛndāvana is the discovery of the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were first deputed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Otherwise, it was a big field only. Caitanya Mahāprabhu discovered the Rādhā*-kuṇḍa. In this way, the Gosvāmīs were deputed, and Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī first of all established this Madana-mohana temple, then Govindajī. In this way all the city of Vṛndāvana... It is transcendental city, but it was begun by the inspiration, by the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu because He appeared to distribute Kṛṣṇa-prema. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. That is the highest perfection of life. Premā pum-artho mahān. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is premā pum-artho mahān, to achieve love of Godhead. That is the verdict of all śāstras.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yenātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*If you want really peace, then you develop your dormant love of God, Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise you'll never be happy. Because we want to love somebody. That is natural. So we have placed our loving propensity in so many things, even to cats and dogs, but that will not satisfy us, because that is sense gratification. That is not real love. Real love is to love Kṛṣṇa, love of Kṛṣṇa. So this is the highest philosophy of life, highest perfection of life, how to learn to love Kṛṣṇa. The Vṛndāvana means simply loving Kṛṣṇa. The cowherds boy, the gopīs, the Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodāmayī, Rādhārāṇī*-the only focus is to love Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana does not mean a city or town or this or that. Vṛndāvana means where everyone is in love, in intense love with Kṛṣṇa. So you have come to Vṛndāvana. Try to learn how to love, intensified love, Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53].



So although we have got love propensity... Everyone loves somebody. But we are being frustrated, because that is not real love. Real love is to love Kṛṣṇa. You may execute your duties very nicely, but if you do not learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, this all discharging of your duties is simply working or laboring for nothing. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*Śrama eva hi. So why this love is not invoked or awakened in us? Because we are covered by this material energy, and we have become conditioned by the material energy. Therefore, to purify ourself we require certain process. That process is called varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama. Varṇa means four divisions of the society: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And this varṇāśrama is created by Kṛṣṇa so that one day one may become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. The whole project is, Vedic project is, Vedic civilization... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vedic civilization means that to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Vedic civilization. Vedānta*-vid vedānta-kṛd cāham. So the Vedantist means to understand Kṛṣṇa. Veda means knowledge, and anta means the last. That Kṛṣṇa explains, Vedānta explains. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. This is Vedānta. One who understands Kṛṣṇa, he is Vedāntist. Not the Pukkar(?). No. The so-called Vedāntists, they want to get out of Kṛṣṇa. They'll never accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. That is not Vedāntist. Real Vedāntist is here: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Jñānavān means one who has actually knowledge. Jñānavān. So real knowledge is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. This is knowledge.



So those who are followers of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Because He has come to distribute love of Godhead, immediately.

*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ kairava*-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*sarvātma*-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*And this is verdict of the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann asty eko mahān guṇaḥ. This Kali-yuga is a ocean of fault, simply faulty. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā [SB 1.1.10]. In this Kali-yuga people are..., duration of life is very short; and still, they are slow, mandāḥ, all bad; *sumanda*-matayo, and they have their different concoctions of ideology and philosophy, sumanda-matayo; *manda*-bhāgyā, very unfortunate; *and upadrutāḥ, always disturbed. This is the position of this age. Therefore this Kali*-yuga is full of faulty atmosphere. Kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann. Doṣa-nidhe: ocean of faults. But there is one opportunity. What is that opportunity? The opportunity is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, who is teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Distributing kṛṣṇa-prema. So in this Kali-yuga, although it is very faulty, people are very, very degraded, less than animals, still there is a great opportunity. And this opportunity is kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. Simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. You don't require to read Vedānta philosophy or this philosophy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu presented Himself: guru more mūrkha dekhi kahile vedānta nāhi adhikārā [Cc. Ādi 7.71]. He presented to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī that His spiritual master saw Him a great fool. Therefore he said to Him that "You have no, I mean to say, access to understand Vedānta philosophy. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all." This is the position. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "He, he taught Me one śloka." What is that? Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva... [Cc. Ādi 17.21].(devotees join in, finish verse) If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you become a first-class Vedāntist. You don't require to study. Of course, if you have got intelligence, if you have got stamina, Vedānta must be studied. And what is that Vedānta? Vedānta is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. Brahma-sūtra means Vedānta. This is the real bhāṣya, or commentary, on Vedānta-sūtra. The Vedānta-sūtra begins, janmādy asya yataḥ, athāto brahma jijñāsā. And Bhāgavata says, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. The same thing; *a little different language. And janmādy asya śloka is beginning of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād [SB 1.1.1]. In the Vedānta-sūtra the sūtra is janmādy asya yataḥ: "Absolute Truth is that from which or from whom everything emanates." Janmādy asya yataḥ. And Bhāgavata is explaining... That is commentary. What is that janmādy asya yataḥ? Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ. Who is that source of knowledge? He must be abhijña. Wherefrom He got this knowledge? Svarāṭ. These things are explained.



*So you are all fortunate. You have come to Vṛndāvana, perhaps for the first time in life. So it is very good opportunity. Vṛndāvana*-dhāma. Aprākṛta, cintāmaṇi. Similarly, you are coming from Navadvīpa. That is also cintāmaṇi-dhāma [Bs. 5.29]. These two dhāma, places, are not ordinary places. Don't make dhāma-aparādha. As there are offenses against chanting the holy name, similarly, there are offenses in dhāma, that in the dhāma one should not perform any sinful activities in the dhāma. In the dhāma, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then it increases thousand times. Similarly, in the dhāma, if you commit offenses, it increases thousand times. So dhāma, one should be very careful not to commit any sinful activities. Illicit sex, or intoxication, meat-eating and gambling-these are the sinful activities. So Vṛndāvana-dhāma, aprākṛta dhāma. Those who are attached to viṣaya, sense gratification, they cannot see what is Vṛndāvana. They cannot see what is Vṛndāvana. They cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, those who are viṣayī. Viṣaya means āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. This is viṣaya, material objectives. They cannot. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings,

viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana

*kabe hāma herava śrī*-vṛndāvana



Visaya chadiya, one who has become detestful to this material enjoyment, they can see what is Vṛndāvana. Those who are attached to material enjoyment, they cannot see what is Vṛndāvana. These are the process.



*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhabo sei yugala*-pīriti



*The ordinary artists, they are very much fond of painting pictures that Kṛṣṇa is embracing Rādhārāṇī. They won't paint picture in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness that Kṛṣṇa is killing Kaṁsa. Kṛṣṇa has two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. So we should not try to understand Kṛṣṇa's love with the gopīs all of a sudden. It is very confidential. It is meant for the paramahaṁsas to understand. Let us understand Kṛṣṇa first of all. Of course, that is the aim, the higher understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī*-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau. But not all of a sudden. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa first. Therefore Vyāsadeva has compiled Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, nine cantos to understand Kṛṣṇa, beginning from the First Canto, First Chapter, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], Vedānta philosophy. Then he begins to write about Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's activities on the Tenth Canto. One has to understand Kṛṣṇa by studying nine cantos. Then if he tries to understand Kṛṣṇa from the Tenth Canto... Otherwise the mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. "Kṛṣṇa is like us, a young boy, and He's after so many young girls. So let us imitate." No. That is not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa must be understood:



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*When you understand Kṛṣṇa in that way, then, if you follow the footsteps of the ācāryas, śrī*-rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti, then you'll be able to understand what is the loving affairs between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī. Don't try to understand all of a sudden like ordinary boy and girl making their loving affairs. Then you'll fall down.



So this is my request, that you have come to Vṛndāvana; *try to understand what is Vṛndāvana*-dhāma, what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but very cautiously, very, I mean to say, carefully. Then Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. And Kṛṣṇa Himself, as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, He is present here. Go through śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsadi gaura..., so in this way, gradually, you'll be able to understand. But that is the highest perfection. Some way or other, if you can understand Kṛṣṇa and His Vṛndāvana... Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. If you... Kṛṣṇa and Vṛndāvana is nondifferent. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's place, Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's everything, they are not different. They are one. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, that ārādhya-vastu, the worshipable Lord, is Kṛṣṇa. And as He is worshipable, His dhāma is also worshipable. We should not commit any offense in the dhāma, and follow the footsteps of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then we'll be favored by the grace of Kṛṣṇa to understand Him and His pastimes with Rādhārāṇī.

Thank you very much. (end)



740606LE.GEN

Lecture at World Health Organization

-

Geneva, June 6, 1974



Prabhupāda: So you can give some introduction. Then I'll speak.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: So we are very honored to be able to address here today. Our spiritual master, His Divine Grace Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, not only is the founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, which is a cultural organization with branches throughout the world, one hundred branches, but he's also an eminent writer. He has presented single-handedly, so far, six volumes of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which are going to be completed within sixty volumes, and other such books as Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. The monthly magazine of the Society distributes some one million copies per month. And the aim of this International Society for Krishna Consciousness, of which Śrīla Prabhupāda is the founder, is a cultural respiritualization of society. We have made so much progress in technology, in science, and yet there is a certain disparity in the society. The point of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and the Vedic scriptures is that any type of technology without fundamental spiritual technology cannot succeed. So it is in the hope of complementing the work of this World Health Organization by deepening its knowledge of the spiritual technology, which is equally important, if not more so, that we have requested this opportunity to speak to you.



*Prabhupāda: So Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your participating in this meeting. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on the authority of this Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, I think most of you know, Indians or foreigners. And some of you must have read Bhagavad-gītā. We have published Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the author of the Bhagavad-gītā is enounced as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the Hindus, especially the Vaiṣṇavas... Vaiṣṇava or not Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We... Our Indian spiritual life is guided by the ācāryas, sampradāya ācārya, the Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī and Nimbārka. There is... Whole Indian spiritual culture is dependent on the guidance of these ācārya. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also, in the Thirteenth Chapter, it is advised, ācārya upāsanam: "One should follow the instruction of the ācārya." That is our Vedic civilization. And in the Bhagavad-gītā, also, it is said in the fourth chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. The science of God... Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. This is a yoga system, this Bhagavad-gītā. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Formerly, this yoga system was spoken by Me to the sun-god, Vivasvān." And visvasvān manave prāhur, "Then the sun-god, whose name is Vivasvān at the present moment..." We get all information from the śāstra. Each and every planet has got a predominating personality. Just like we have got on this planet, a few presidents. But in other planets, there are also presidents, and their name is also... Because the duration of other planet is very, very great. The topmost planet, which is known as Brahmaloka, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Many millions of years, sahasra-yuga. One yuga means forty-three hundred thousands of solar years, and multiply it by one thousand. That becomes the duration of one day in the Brahmaloka. So in different planets, there are different duration of life, different standard of life.



*So all these information we get from the Vedic scripture, just like Bhagavad*-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Upaniṣad, like that. And we follow the instruction. That is good for human society. Human society, if they do not follow the footprints of great ācāryas, great saintly persons, then there will be trouble. And that is happening actually. In the Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa was..., Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna was talking, so Arjuna presented the after-effects of war, that women will be widows and their, they will not be able to keep their character, and then adharma, irreligious principles, will begin. So he said... He was arguing like this, that,

adharmābhibhavāt kṛṣṇa

*praduṣyanti kula*-striyaḥ

strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya

*jāyate varṇa*-saṅkaraḥ

[Bg. 1.40]



*The Vedic civilization is varṇāśrama-dharma. If the varṇāśrama-dharma is not properly protected, then there will be population who are called varṇa-saṅkara, mixed population. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra*-that is the natural division. The society must be divided... Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. (aside:) There is no need. The natural division... Just like you have got natural division in your body: the head, the arms, the belly and the legs, similarly, social divisions, there is. Some of them are very intelligent men, class of men, and some of them are martial-spirited persons, and some of them are interested in trades and industry, and some of them are interested only for filling up the belly. So this is natural division. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam. If this cātur-varṇyaṁ, this division... The most intelligent class of men, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Śamo damo titikṣa ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. The social division must be there. The most intellectual class of men, they should be engaged in studying the Vedas and acquire the knowledge and spread it to the human society so that they may be guided and do the needful for peaceful situation of the society. That is the guidance. The kṣatriyas, they're meant for protecting the society, military power, or martial-spirited. When there is danger, attack, they'll give us protection. Similarly, there must be a class of men for producing food grain, and giving protection to the cows. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. And the rest of the people, who cannot work as intellectuals or as martial-spirited persons or cannot take to production of foodstuffs, they should assist all these three classes of men. And they are called śūdras. This is the social division. So this is called varṇāśrama-dharma. The word dharma is used. Dharma means occupational duty. Dharma does not mean some religious sentiment. No. Natural division and the occupational duty.



So here Arjuna says,

adharmābhibhavāt kṛṣṇa

*praduṣyanti kula*-striyaḥ

strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya

*jāyate varṇa*-saṅkaraḥ

[Bg. 1.40]



*So the precaution was to stop varṇa*-saṅkara. Varṇa-saṅkara means, I mean to say, chaotic condition of these four classes of men. And next he says,



saṅkaro narakāyaiva

*kula*-ghnānāṁ kulasya ca

patanti pitaro hy eṣāṁ

*lupta*-piṇḍodaka-kriyāḥ

[Bg. 1.41]



*There are so many talks about to keep the varṇāśrama intact for peaceful condition of the society, and the modern problem, the overpopulation... We... In the śāstras, in the Vedic literature, we don't find such thing as overpopulation, because the living entities are already fixed up. From the Padma*-Purāṇa, we can understand that the living entities, they're very, very small particles of the supreme spirit soul, or God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. And their dimension is also mentioned, keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca: [Cc. Madhya 19.140] the one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair. And jīva-bhāgo sa vijñeya sa anantaya kalpate. So the living entities are already ananta, unlimited. In another place of Upaniṣad, Kaṭhopaniṣad, we find that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These living entities, they are maintained. Their provision for their maintenance is already there, made by God. So there is no question of overpopulation. The question is varṇa-saṅkara. Varṇa-saṅkara, that is the problem. So the human life is meant for systematic organization of spiritual realization. That is human life. There is evolutionary process from low-grade life, from aquatics to trees, plants, from trees, plants to insects, from insects to birds, and then from birds to the beasts, from beasts to human being. So there are 8,400,000's of living entities in different species of life. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*So Kṛṣṇa, or God, claims that He is the seed-giving father of all these living entities. So as the father makes provision for maintenance of the sons and children, so God is not incapable. He has made provision for all these living entities. But when we mismanage, we become varṇa-saṅkara, there is calamity. So far I have studied*-I am touring all over the world-there are enough place uncultivated. Especially I have seen in Australia and Africa, there is enough place that is not being utilized. In India also, there are enough places still. That is not being utilized. And Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. The maintenance of the living entities-bhūtāni means living entities-can be done by production of food grains. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Then parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. And then it is said, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavam [Bg. 3.14]. This formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, that living entities, it doesn't matter whether animal or men, they are flourished, they are raised very nicely, provided there is anna. Anna means food grain. So we can produce enough quantity of food grains all over the world. And if we actually produce food grains, we can feed ten times of the population which are at present. But unfortunately, we are not producing food grains. That is the problem. It is not the problem of overpopulation. It is the problem that we are not producing food grains. This is clearly stated, that unless you have sufficient food grains, how you can maintain? They have taken a policy that they would not... Especially in the Western countries, I see that they will not produce food. They will raise some cattles and send them to the slaughterhouse for eating. This policy is going on. And this is not a very good policy. You produce your food grain. Why you should kill the innocent animals and eat them? So on account of these sinful activities, according to Vedic civlization, there are four kinds of sinful activities. One sinful activity is illegitimate, illicit sex life. According to Vedic civilization, without marriage, no sex life is allowed. Therefore marriage is compulsory. In every human society, there is marriage. But according to Vedic civilization, marriage is compulsory, saṁskāra. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya jāyate varṇa-saṅkaraḥ. If the women are not married, then varṇa-saṅkara population will increase. It is said. And as soon as there is varṇa-saṅkara population, the whole world will be in chaotic condition.



So the, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are suggesting from the śāstras, from the Vedic literature, how to reorganize the human society. Actually, there is no scarcity of food, there is no scarcity of land. Everything, there is sufficient. From the *Īśopaniṣad*, we understand... Not only this planet; in every planet there is sufficient arrangement.

pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam eva avaśi...

[Iso Invocation]



*It is factually complete. There is no problem. The problem is that we are not following the, I mean to..., the principles of life as they are enunciated, as they are enjoined. Dharma, the word dharma, it is not a, a religious sentiment. Dharma means occupational duty. So in the... From Vedic literature, we understand that dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the laws given by God. Unfortunately, at the present moment, they have no information what is God and what is God's law and how to abide God's law. They're all in ignorance and they're manufacturing their own way of life, every day changing. This will not solve the problems of human society. If we actually follow the Vedic injunction, it is very simple thing. The whole idea is that everything belongs to God. Actually, that's a fact. This is the... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything be... Now this United Nations, they're trying to be united, but actually, in the heart, they have got this, "This is my land," "This is my land." The American thinking, "This is my land." The German thinking, "Oh, it is my land." Indians thinking, "My land." Actually, there is no knowledge. Every land belongs to God. But they cannot come to this conclusion because they are godless, without any God consciousness. Actually, that's a fact. Just as the America, two hundred years ago, this land did not belong to the Americans. It was there already. So to whom it belonged? Similarly, everything... This is the statement of the Vedas: īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. If we accept this, if the United Nations makes this resolution, that "From this date, let us dissolve this so-called nationality, accept this whole planet belonging to us, all the human beings, all the animals, all the birds, beasts, trees, as they are on this planet," if we accept this philosophy, there is no question of chaotic condition of the society. Actually, that is the fact. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that whatever there is, property, on the land, on the sky, or on the water, anywhere, everything belongs to God. This is, some way or other, communistic idea, but it is spiritual communistic idea. The Communists, they are making their center as the state. The Bhāgavata makes the center as God. Everything belongs to God. The Communist says that everything belongs to the state, and the Bhāgavata says everything belongs to God. So from the idea, this is very nice idea. Now we are... Kṛṣṇa claims in the Bhagavad-gītā that "All the species of life, they are My sons. I am the seed-giving father." So the property is belonging to God, the supreme father, and we are the sons of God. Not only human being. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu: "All species of life." Therefore God has provided for everyone's sufficient necessities of life. For example, just like we are human beings, only 400,000's of species. But other species, they're eight million. Eighty hundred thousand species. In Africa, there are millions of elephants. They eat, at a time, fifty kilograms. Kg. What is that Kg?



Devotees: Kilos.



Prabhupāda: Kilos. But they are also eating. There is no scarcity of food for them. So it is a fact that eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. But because we don't believe in God, we manufacture our own ideas; therefore we create simply chaotic condition.



*So according to Bhagavad*-gītā, as we are preaching, we are also opening centers, self-help center. In New Vrindaban, West Virginia, we have already opened a very big community center. We are going to open in California also, and we have already opened in India also, that we occupy a certain tract of land, we produce our own food, we keep our cows and take their milk, and there is no scarcity. Everything, there are. We don't require to go outside the land for our livelihood. So we are advising, we are making centers like that, that "Be self-sufficient. Save time for spiritual culture." That is human civilization. This was advised some thousands of years ago by Ṛṣabhadeva. I will recite some verses. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is stated in the Fifth Chapter of the Fifth Canto. It is said, Ṛṣabha uvāca. Ṛṣabhadeva was a, the emperor of this world. He was advising his sons. So he said,

*nāyaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke

*kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ*-bhujāṁ ye

tato tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

*śuddhyed yasmād brahma*-saukhyam anantam

[SB 5.5.1]



*This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva to his sons. "My dear sons, this human form of body, ayaṁ deha, this body, na, not..." Na ayaṁ deho deha*-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Everyone has got a body. The cats and dogs, they are also possessing a body, and the human being also possessing a body. So what is the difference between the cats and dogs and human society? So Ṛṣabhadeva says, ayaṁ deha-bhājāṁ nṛlo..., kaṣṭān kāmān na arhati yad viḍ-bhujām. To accept too much labor for the necessities of life, kāmān... Kāmān means the necessities of life. This life, this human form of life, is not meant for that. It is meant for viḍ-bhujām, the hogs and dogs. They are... The hog is whole day working to find out "Where is stool? Where is stool?" The human life should not be like that. Human life should be very peaceful and prosperous and save time for spiritual culture. That is stated here. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1], for tapasya, tapasya, voluntarily accepting renouncement. This is human life. That is our Vedic principle, compulsory sannyāsa. There are varṇāśrama-dharma. So student life, brahmacārī; then married life, gṛhastha; then vānaprastha; *then sannyāsa. That is tapasya. The brahmacārī is also trained up for austerity and penances. That is brahmacārī. The gṛhastha also... Because from brahmacārī life, they go to gṛhastha life, they are trained up in tapasya. Then again, at the age of fiftieth year, they give up the family life, they take vānaprastha. Only the husband and wife go out of home and travels all over the holy places. Then, when one is little trained up, he sends back his wife to the care of his grown*-up children, and he takes sannyāsa. This is varṇāśrama-dharma. The so-called Hindu dharma, that is a gift of the Muhammadans. We don't find the word "Hindu" in any Vedic scripture. This "Hindu" word has come from the Muhammadan countries. They used to say the people of this part of the world, means, across the river Indus, they call "Hindas" or "Hindus." So actually, Hindu not..., that is not Hindu dharma. Our... From the Vedic literature, we understand the varṇāśrama-dharma, varṇāśrama: four varṇas and four āśramas. Varnāśramacaravata. In the Viṣṇu-Purāṇa, you'll find this word. In the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find. In the Bhāgavata you'll find. So really Indian civilization or Aryan civilization, Vedic civlization, means varṇāśrama-dharma.



varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇaparaḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam



*So this human form of life, here, according to the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, is not meant for working hard simply for eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is not human form of life. This is condemned in the śāstras. Human form, the civilization means they should mold the form of the society in such a way that easily we can live and save time for spiritual culture. Therefore it is said, tapo divyaṁ putrakā [SB 5.5.1]. The tapasya, the spiritual culture, is necessary. Divyam. Tapasya. Tapasya means... There are so many scholars. They also undergo tapasya for finding out, discovering... Just like we have now discovered this atomic energy. That is also tapasya. Or something wonderful, discovery, that also, tapasya. But here it is said, tapo divyam: "Undergo tapasya, austerity, penances, for transcendental realization." Divyam. In the Bhagavad*-gītā you'll find, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. So we should undergo tapasya, penance, austerity, for transcendental realization. Divyam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā: [SB 5.5.1] "My dear boys, this life, human form of life, is not meant for working so hard like hogs and dogs. This life is meant for tapasya, and for transcendental realization." Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet. Sattva means existence. We exist, but this existence is not pure. Therefore we have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. This is not pure. Actually, we are living entities. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The living entity never takes birth, neither dies. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "This body being destroyed, the living entity is not destroyed." So as eternal part and parcel of the Supreme Lord... The Supreme Lord is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], eternal, full of bliss, and knowledge. But we have got this body, material body, which is full of ignorance, full of miseries and neither... It is only temporary. This is our position. Therefore tapasya should be executed, how we can also revive our original constitutional position, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. This is called śuddhyet sattva. Just like when a man becomes diseased, it is his duty to go to the physician, consult him, take some medicine to get out of the disease, similarly, human life is meant for to get out of this disease. What is that disease? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9].



*So there are so many nice things. And they are very, very beneficial for the human life. If we do not utilize the already information we have got in the Vedic literatures, so then this temporary program to save us, that will not solve the problem. It will never solve. The problems will be more intricate day by day, and it is stated in the Bhāgavata, that some day will come when there will be no food grains, no sugar, no milk, and no fruits, that these things will not be available. So these, they are all acting under the direction of the Supreme Lord. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Prakṛti, this material nature... In the Bhagavad-gītā... It is working under the direction of the Supreme Lord. It is not blind. So there is some direction. It is very simple to understand. Just like my bodily activities are being carried under my direction. So similarly, the huge cosmic body, there is also a director. But we have no information. Or we have information, but we don't take, utilize it. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. So they are simply seeing the wonderful activities of the material nature, but behind this material nature there is the direction of the Supreme Lord. So we have to study all this information and utilize for the social benefit. Then everything will be adjusted. If we simply become disturbed by the external symptoms, it is not possible to make them solved. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot make solution of the stringent laws of material nature. It will go on. Just like the fire. If you touch fire, it will burn your finger. It will not consider that... Even if you are a child, if you touch fire... The material laws are very stringent. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. So our only request is: Those who are working in the United Nations in so many different departmental situations, if they will take advantage of this great cultural book, Bhagavad-gītā, and try to study and, if possible, to implement in social life-everything is there-then people will be happy, and there will be no problem, and the chaotic condition will not exist.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: So as this was a colloquium, I hope you may have some questions you would like to ask. Vedic knowledge touches on everything from art, literature, science, technology, and overpopulation has already been discussed five thousand years ago in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we hope we can share this knowledge with you. If you have some questions, His Divine Grace would be disposed to answer.



Guest (1) (Indian man): Swamijī, nobody will disagree with you that taking the world's population at its present level, and also the production at its present level, one can see that the distribution is very uneven. And it is also true, just leaving aside the predictions, the pessimistic predictions of demographers as to what will be the human population five hundred years from now or in the year 2,300 or whatever it is, but also leaving aside the deterioration of the environment as a result of wrong technologies that have begun here (?), it is true that, as you said, there is lot of scope of additional sources, food production and other resources if it is evenly distributed over the existing populations. Yet the fact remains that there are areas of the world where people are living in luxury, and they are guarding their rights, territorial ones, as you rightly said, national...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So*-called nationalism.



Guest (1): ...and on the other hand, there are river valleys overpopulated in certain parts of the world where people are living in misery. They are willing to work and they are willing to contribute their talent to the world in whatever way they can, and yet they have no opportunity.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Guest (1): Now, the problem is, eventually, of course, if we agree as you said, that everything belongs to God... And this idea is also, as you pointed out, in the, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, but also in the Bible, they say, "The earth is the Lord's." And in the Koran also it is said that Al addha lila, which means the same thing.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (1): The idea has been there for thousands of years, but the question is, until this idea is accepted and put into practice the way you said, what is to be done in the interim period? Because lot of people are dying in misery and...



Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that...



Guest (1):. You see. What is the solution?



*Prabhupāda: The solution is that... As soon as there is problem and you want solution... Suppose there is some problem in legal affairs. So you go to lawyer. When there is problems of your health, you go to the physician. Similarly, our Vedic instruction is for solution of this all chaotic condition, one should... Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigaccet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. You have to approach persons who can make the solution. So that is, that is the injunction, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigaccet. Who is guru? Guru means śrotriyam, who knows all the Vedic literature, the information. Śrotriyam. And brahma-niṣṭham. Brahma-niṣṭham means completely God conscious. These are two qualifications. Those who are claiming that "I am God," cheating people, they are not gurus. Guru means he's always... Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya **. That is the definition of guru. Guru is accepted as good as God, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ, in all Vedic literature, tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, and those who are learned, advanced, they accept it. But what is the position of guru? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "Guru is the most confidential servant of God." That is his position. So people do not come to us, but we are going, canvassing. This is the position. Solution is there, but they do not come to us for solution. We are going door to door, all over the world, that "Here is the solution, sir. Here is the solution." But if they do not take, what can I do? This is our position. The solution is there. And we are canvassing that "Please take this solution." But they'll not take it. They'll not hear us. They'll hold big, big conference and talk all nonsense, and that's all. This is their business. And make the things more complicated. That's all.



Guest (1): Yes. Do you have any suggestions for...?



*Prabhupāda: Suggestion is already I have given, that utilize this land for cultivation. I have seen so much land vacant. In Austria, Australia. Eh? Yes, Australia, and special... In U.S.A. also, there are so much land vacant. They're not utilizing... Whatever production, they... Sometimes they throw it in the water. And, I, I have heard in this Geneva, that there was excess of milk production. Therefore they want to kill twenty*-thousand cows to reduce the milk production. This is their brain. Actually, there is no brain. So they, for brain, they should come to these śāstras. They should take guidance. Produce. Produce, utilize. But they'll not utilize. Rather, the limited number of people... At least in India, all the villagers, they have been drawn in the city for producing bolts and nuts. Now eat bolts and nuts. So, so Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi's program was that, village organization. And our big Pandit topsy-turvied everything. So Gandhi's program was very nice, to organize a... [break] ...and produce your own food. If you work only three months, you get the whole year's provision. Whole year's provision. The balance time, you save. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. And be spiritually advanced. Be human being. Otherwise, it is risky. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. After all, we have to change this body; *however big plan we may make, we have to give up this plan, and we have to change this body. But there is no guarantee what kind of body we are going to get. Suppose I, this time, this life, I am very busy for constructing a big skyscraper building, and next time, next life, if I get the body of a cat or dog, so I'll have to live in that house because I have got attraction as a cat and dog, and who will care for me? So these are the facts. Because nobody can change the nature's law. Nature's law is exactly like infectious disease. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. They do not even believe that there is life after death. I talked, in Moscow, a big professor, Kotovsky. He said, "Swamijī, after death there is nothing." You... He's a big professor. He has no knowledge of the soul. And he's a big professor. Just see. This is going on.



*So as far as possible... Now, as gradually this godless civilization will go on*-that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata-there will be problems. Anāvṛṣṭi. Anāvṛṣṭi: there will be no rain. And durbhikṣa. As there will be anāvṛṣṭi, no sufficient rain, there will be no sufficient production. Actually, these things are already begun. Anāvṛṣṭi. And on the other side, taxation, the government taxation. In this way, people will be so much disturbed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇāṁ gacchanti giri-kānanam. They will be so much harassed because there will be no... There will be scarcity of rainfall, there will be scarcity of food, and there will be taxation. Then how one can keep the brain equilibrium? He will be mad. So unless we take the instruction of the śāstras... Immediately, we should take this instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavam, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ [Bg. 3.14]. Therefore we have introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. This is yajña. In the Kali-yuga, this yajña is possible. So if all over the world... Or make an experiment in some portion. Just go. Just like we are making samples in West Virginia. They are self-sufficient. And the saved time is being utilized for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the remedy. But they'll not take this remedy. They have got their own remedy. So a few men may be happy, so-called happy. The other day, I saw in Calcutta Mr. Kanunga. He's the son of late governor of Gujarat. So he said... He's the manager of that coal distribution, government... So he said that "Now, being government concerned, the laborers, they're not working. They're sitting idly. So we have to increase the price. Cost is..." So this is the problem. People, being godless, they are dishonest, they are not working honestly and so many things. The only remedy is that people should be taught to become God conscious. And this method is very simple: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. And samples are there, these European and American boys. They were addicted to so many bad habits. Now they are... Just see how sober they are, and they're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So everything is possible, provided you people take our instruction. Otherwise, there is no other remedy. What can be done? The remedy's there. The medicine is also there. But if you don't take the medicine, how the disease will be cured?

Guest (2) (Indian man): I would ask the respected swamiji, you referred to the departure of the villagers to the city and getting in that city life and the villagers(?) become factory and all workers the evils which follow. And you suggested as a solution that if you live in the villages and work only for three months, then you'll have food to eat. But I'd like to point out that there is such a vast amount of unemployment in our villages in India. The vast populations are there doomed,(?) and despite all these settlements, (indistinct) are not able to make enough food because they don't own the land and they are not... They are unemployed. And that's why they go into the cities. It is not necessarily the good life in the city which attracts them, but they don't own the land. The land is owned by other people, and they are not free to live in the village as free men and grow enough food for them. Now this is a question of the means of owning of the means of production. And we still have the zamindar system. We still have the system, and the rich people are exploiting. They do. Unless there is some kind of a revolution by which you can curb the power of the landlord, how can you be for land distribution(?) of the village, of those who live in the village, and not go to city to pull a rickshaw or do other labor to...?



Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can come in. Thing is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody's unemployed. That is good government. That is the Vedic system. The society was divided into four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And it was the duty of the government or the king to see the brāhmaṇa is doing brāhmaṇa's duty, and the kṣatriya's duty, uh, kṣatriya... His duty is the kṣatriya's duty. Similarly, vaiśya... So it is the government's duty to see that why people are unemployed. Then the question will be solved.



Guest (2): But they are the people who are also in the government.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Guest (2): They are also... The entrenched(?) people, the monied people, landowners, they also have a strong voice in the government.



Prabhupāda: No. That, that means bad government.



Guest (2): Yes. That is, that is true.



Prabhupāda: That is bad government. Otherwise, it is the duty of the government to see that everyone is employed.



Guest (2): That's what I am looking forward to, the day when the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can become a real revolutionary movement which will change the face of society.



Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it will bring revolution because the American and European young men, they have taken into hand. I have introduced to them. So I hope the European and American boys, they're very intelligent, and they take anything very seriously. So that... Now we are working for a few years, five, six years. Still, we have spread the movement all over the world. So I am requesting... I am old man. I will die. If they take it seriously, it will go on, and there will be revolution. Because we are not working whimsically, capriciously. We are taking authoritative version from the śāstra. And we are... Our program is to publish at least one hundred books of this size. There are so many information. They can read all these books and take information. And we are now being received. In America especially, the higher circle, in colleges and universities, they are reading now these books, and they are appreciating. So we are trying our best, introducing the literature, practically working, instructing, as far as possible. But I think if the, these boys, young boys, take it very seriously, it will bring revolution.



Guest (2): Is there a center in Geneva where this literature...?



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Give...



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: We have a center in Petit-lancy, neuf(?) de Credo, with daily program, philosophy, classes, kīrtana, and general training.



Prabhupāda: You have not any literature having the address?



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: Yes. Yes.



Prabhupāda: Give them.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: This is our monthly magazine which we publish in French language, and this is a presentation book which shows the scope of our activities in the world. Our center is open, admission is free. There is no cost or pain to come, and if you only learn one thing, where is the question of loss? Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that everyone can win something for the benefit of everyone else.



Guest (3) (Indian man): There is one thing, Swamijī, if I may, which I cannot reconcile. As an Indian, the question bothers me very, very often. I believe in a great many things which you say. There's no question about that. I'm not a Westernized Indian. But what I cannot reconcile is the fact that we who had this Vedic knowledge and all the things which you have just now said is the solution to all our problems, with all this knowledge, we have not been able to keep our society free from so many evils to come... I'm not only referring to the poverty, but to the other things...



Prabhupāda: No. It is due to bad leaders. It is due to bad leaders.



Guest (3): They are our own people. They...



Prabhupāda: They may be own, your father. Just like Prahlāda's father was Hiraṇyakaśipu, a demon. So what can be done? Prahlāda was a devotee, and his father was a demon.



Guest (3): Yes. He has to be destroyed.



*Prabhupāda: So he was destroyed. He'll be destroyed. They are being destroyed. These demonic leaders will not stay. They'll be destroyed. But everything takes some time. Just like I told you that Gandhi, he understood the pulse of the country. He wanted to reorganize the villages, but our big Paṇḍitajī topsy*-turvied everything.



Guest (3): Yeah, and we killed him.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (3): That was the first thing.



*Prabhupāda: And we killed him, Gandhi. Yes. So this is... Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If a mūrkha is advised to do something, he becomes angry. Payaḥ*-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ visa-vardhanam. So at the present moment, our Indian leaders are not very good. Blind. They have no knowledge, and they are leading. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They have killed our original Vedic culture, and they cannot give anything. Gandhi wanted to give something, but he was also killed. What can be done?



Yogeśvara: I can show them our book, Moscow Talks.



Prabhupāda: Hmm?



Yogeśvara: We have the Moscow Talks book here, your conversation with Professor Kotovsky.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: You may see that in this presentation book we have a center in Māyāpur, in Navadvīpa, in West Bengal. We are distributing Kṛṣṇa-prasāda. There is no problem.



Prabhupāda: Yes. In all our centers, we distribute prasādam. Anyone who may come, "Take prasādam."



Guest (4) (Indian man): Has the movement involved itself in social philosophy, then? Because sometimes I'm sure you, if you propagate your good will, the moral path...



Prabhupāda: Yes. We are spreading the best moral principle, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Guest (4): But don't you come... (sound of jet drowns out) ...who don't like you? Does it not mean a bit of problem?



*Prabhupāda: We are getting a better response from the Western countries than in India. In India, we see that the leaders, they do not like it. They are now opening beef shop, wine shop, and we are preaching "No intoxication, no meat*-eating." So actually, we are not very favorable to their propaganda. (laughs) They don't like us, the leaders. Now there are big, big signboards. In Juhu we have got a center, and the government has opened beef shop, very big. And wine shop, you'll find everywhere. And we are preaching, "No intoxication, no meat-eating." So how they'll like us? That is the difficulty. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But still, we are struggling.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: The value of this movement is that if we can prove on a small level, on a model level, that it works, then any scientific man... This is the empirical method. If it works on a small level, it shall work on a large level.



Guest (5) (Indian man): Yeah, like what?



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: Well, for example, Isaac Newton discovered gravity. That discovery was a universal discovery. It was an axiom. If it works here, it will work anywhere.



Guest (5): No. That I understand. But I mean in regard to your own work, can you give an example of something having worked that..., whatever you mean by work?



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: Yes. Cultivating the land, for example. We have communities. New Vrindaban, in West Virginia; California. We are establishing in France. We can absorb as many people as wish to come, and we can feed them all, and we still have surplus in foodstuffs.



Prabhupāda: Yes. In Virginia, it has proved very successful. We are getting eighty pounds of milk daily. And from that milk...



*Puṣṭa*-kṛṣṇa: Eight hundred.



Prabhupāda: Eh? Eight hundred. Yes. Eight hundred, I am sorry. So that milk product is sufficient for give them nutritious food. We are preparing ghee. Just like in India, they utilize milk so nicely. And vegetables we are growing. They are making sweetmeats, sandeṣa, rasagullā. There is enough milk product. And ghee, luci, purī. They are satisfied. So that is the basic principle.



Guest (5): This is just an example of a successful corporative enterprise which is... But would you speak something new which has not been tried before?



Prabhupāda: No. The new thing is that they do not go outside for bread. That is the new thing. Here, at the present moment, in every big, big city, they are coming from hundred miles to the office. Now there was railway strike in Bombay. I was there at that time. Oh, people are suffering so much. You see? From five o'clock in the morning, they are standing in queue for catching one... Not bus, it is truck. The buses on strike. So people are so much in difficulty. And if one train or two train was running, so many people smashed the... They were on the top of the train. So the problem is why one should be induced to go hundred miles off from his home for earning his livelihood? This is a very bad civilization. One must have his food locally. That is good civilization.



Guest (5): Yeah. What do these people do for a living? Only grow food?



Prabhupāda: No. Grow food for eating, and then they read all these books. They become spiritually advanced. That's all. Deity worship.



Guest (5): And did you need money?



Prabhupāda: Well, we get money. We sell these books also. If they require money, there is money also. But we live very simple life. Whatever little necessity of money is there, that we can gather by selling these books. Even in Indian parliament, the question was raised, "Wherefrom this ISKCON movement gets their money?" Some Communist member raised this question. And the home member replied, "They get money by selling literature." That's a fact.



*Guest (6) (European man): I would like to ask also a question. In your rural communities... I call them rural because from what you said, the main purpose is to be self*-supporting as regards food. In your rural communities, do you utilize the most modern techniques with fertilizers, with mechanical means for cultivating land? This is one question. The other is that obviously, from what you say, the necessary money for buying anything else, that is provided by the selling of your books. Of course, if you would imagine communities having not, as you have, something which (indistinct), and therefore books which can be sold, such communities would not be eased to be self-supporting in regards to everything. Food is also there. And if, by any chance, would your system...? Supposing we could transform all the members of the Swiss community into peasants, having their piece of land and living in rural communities, I suppose from what I know that many would starve and would have not sufficiently to eat because conditions here, conditions of climate, etc., are not of the same category of the ones which may exist in Asia or in other countries. The basic problem is that in former centuries most of the male population of that country which population was mainly composed of peasants had to expatriate and become soldiers abroad because there was not enough food. So what do you say about these things?



Yogeśvara: His first question was do we use machines and modern methods on our āśramas and farms.



*Prabhupāda: We have no objection. We want to be self*-sufficient. That is our point of view. We have no objection with... It is not that we don't touch machine. We don't say like that. But we want to be self-sufficient. That is our point. We have not taken a vow that we shall not touch any machine. No, no. We're not like that.



*Guest (6): Well, I think it's an admirable objective. Certainly it can be realized in small rural communities which acquire the necessary surface to have each member in the community to be self*-sufficient. Like in the Middle Ages in this country the monks were more or less self-sufficient within the frame of their land. But outside this, the peasants were really always hungry.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: He says that on a small level that may be valid like the monks who have their monastery and they made food enough, but for most people, especially where the climate is so unfavorable... He said that the Swiss people, they could not even stay on the land in the past, but they had to go away to find food because of the climate. So on the whole he does not see the practicality.



Prabhupāda: Well, after all, this is material world. The miserable conditions are there. But as far as possible, try to minimize. Our only aim is how to save time for spiritual cultivation. That is our main aim. So we have to find out the opportunity according to the time, circumstances. We, we do not reject anything. Whatever is favorable, we accept.



Yogeśvara: So, in other words, the absolute platform that you were speaking of where everyone would be engaged in that kind of rural cultivation of the ground isn't any kind of long term goal for us necessarily. We have our small communities, and then there's also activity going on in other areas as well. But the idea in our spiritual master's describing, as far as possible we utilize every opportunity for advancing in spiritual life, whether it be by cultivating the ground or whatever occupational duty we may have to perform.



*Guest (6): But I understand that your goal is to have everybody becoming self*-supporting in regards to food. But if everyone who is engaged in food production, who will be providing other things?



Yogeśvara: He thinks that we have been saying that ultimately we'd like everyone to be engaged in food production. Is that our...?



*Prabhupāda: No. We don't say that. According to the Bhagavad*-gītā, the..., there is a section of men who will produce food, there is a section of men who will be spiritually elevated, and there will be section of men who will manage as the government or the king, and the balance men, they're all śūdras. They'll help these three men. This is Bhagavad-gītā. Not that everyone will be cultivator. No. There must be management, and there must be brain also, and there must be worker also. This should be... This is natural division. But all should combine together for spiritual cultivation. Just like we have got our brain, our arms, our belly, our legs. They're all required. We cannot reject the legs and keep only hands. That is not possible. But the hands, leg, brain and belly should combine together to keep the body healthy. That is the aim. So we shall now go?



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: So if there are no other question, I guess we can take leave of each other and thank you very much.



Yogeśvara: Kīrtana?



Prabhupāda: Yes, have saṅkīrtana.



*Guru*-gaurāṅga: There is more prasāda. We have brought this for you. So we hope you'll take. You can... (end)





740614LE.PAR

Lecture at the Hare Kṛṣṇa Festival

at La Salle Pleyel

-

Paris, June 14, 1974



Prabhupāda:

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

*śrī*-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda ki jaya



[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]



[break] ...kindly taking part in this saṅkīrtana movement. (translated into French throughout by Jyotirmayī dāsī) This saṅkīrtana movement means vibration of the transcendental sound. In the beginning of creation, sound is the origin of all creation. That is admitted in the Bible also. (aside:) Where is that paper? Yes. Read it. We are reading a passage from your Bible.



Nitāi: The Gospel according to St. John, Chapter One. "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men, and the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not."



Prabhupāda: Where it is? So the same thing explained in the Vedic literature. Here it is said that "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." So God being Absolute Truth, there is no difference between God, His form, His qualities, His words and everything relating to God. That is also God. Just like in the material world the name and the subject, or the substance, they are different. Just like when you are thirsty, you simply utter the word "water, water," it will not quench your thirst. But in the spiritual world, the name "God," or "Kṛṣṇa," and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, They are the same. Just parallel to this Bible passage I'll quote one Sanskrit verse from the *Vedas*. Therefore it is said,



*nāma*-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaś

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya*-mukto

*'bhinnatvān nāma*-nāminoḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.133]



*Namely, the name of God is as powerful as God is Himself. It is called pūrṇa. Pūrṇa means complete. And śuddha. Śuddha means without any material contamination. Pūrṇaḥ śuddha nitya. Nitya means eternal. Abhinnatvān nāma*-nāminoḥ means without being different from the person whose name we are chanting.



*The idea is that when we chant the holy name of God-just like "Kṛṣṇa"*-Kṛṣṇa is present there. As soon as you chant God's name... Not necessarily that he will have to chant the name Kṛṣṇa... Any other name which you know that it is God's name, you can chant it. God has got many names, and they can be chanted by different languages in different countries. The effect is the same. Practically, God has no name, but His name is given according to His activities. Just like we are chanting God's name "Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." So God is all-attractive. We can have the idea how we consider attractiveness in this material world. One is attractive in this material world if he is very rich, if he is very powerful, if he is very wise, if he is very beautiful. In this way, in six ways one becomes the most attractive. The statement is there in the Vedic literature:

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇāṁ iti bhaga ganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*Means God is all*-attractive by six features: that He is the richest of all, He is the strongest of all, He is the most beautiful, He is the most wise, He is the most renounced order, and He is most famous.



*So our position, we all living entities, all the living entities or the human being who are sitting in this hall, we are all sons of God. (someone calls out "No," and there is a little applause, Prabhupāda chuckles) It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā that... You find out this verse,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yaḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



Read it. You read it.



Nitāi:



*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yaḥ

*tāsāṁ mahad*-yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed*-giving father."



*Prabhupāda: So according to Vedic conception, any living entity, in any form of life, they are all part and parcel of God. (someone yells out, "No!" and yells some things in French) Your Bible says that in the beginning there was word only, and the word is God. So before the creation, the God was there. Then all the created creatures, wherefrom they came? They came from God. It is clearly stated in this verse, "All things were made by Him." So original creator of everything was God. Everything means including all, not only a certain person or certain thing. Everything means everything, all. So all things were made by God means..., "made by Him" means that all these creatures... There are different creatures, 8,400,000. They were created by God. One who creates, he is the father. Just like in the material sense also, a father creates his children. So how can you say "No"? Because here in the Bible it is said that "All things were made by Him, created by Him." Therefore He is the father of everything. "And without Him was not anything made that was made." So you cannot deny the authoritative statement of Vedas or Bible by your whimsical way. When you go to your church, you ask, "Father, give us our daily bread." That means He is father of everyone. This is perfect knowledge, that God is father of everything that is made. Here it is clearly stated, "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made." That is also statement of the Vedānta*-sūtra, the most perfect philosophy of Vedic language. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā, means "This human life is meant for inquiring about God." So the first understanding of God is that He is the creator of everything.



*So the present Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for understanding God. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started not now, say, in your country, Western countries say, for the last six or seven years, but the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is on this planet for the last five thousand years. When I say Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it means God consciousness. So human being, human life, is meant for understanding God and become God conscious. In the animal life there is no possibility of understanding God. When we invite by advertisement, "Please come here in this meeting. We shall discuss something about God," the human being comes, not the cats and dogs. This is... (big applause) So human being is the chance given by nature to understand about God. If we do not take chance, if we do not fulfill this chance-that means we have got this chance to understand God-then our next life may not be human being. The soul is within your body. The soul is the part and parcel of God. If you try to understand what is the soul, then partially you understand what is God. If you study yourself, then you study to some extent what is God, because you are the sample of God. It is also stated in the Bible that human being is made under the image of God. So if you study yourself*-that is called meditation-then you can understand what is God. Therefore the yoga system is recommended. Those who are in bodily consciousness of life, for them, this meditation yoga, or to understand oneself, that is very important thing. If you try to understand yourself, very simple method... You take your finger. You ask yourself whether you are finger, the answer will be "No, I am not finger. It is my finger." Everyone will say, even a child will say, "This is my finger, my hand, my leg, my head." Nobody will say that "I leg, I finger, I head." Nobody will say. Therefore the conclusion should be I, the soul, is different from this material body. The material body changes on account of presence of the soul. Just like a child gets a different body like a boy; a boy gets a different body like a young man. Similarly, young man gets another body as an old man. Every one of us can consider that "I had a small body of child. I had a small body of boy. I had a youthful body. Now I have got this old body." By this simple study, I can understand that I am different from the body. And because I am eternal, in all forms of body I was existing. That I can understand also.

*Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "After the destruction of this body, I, the soul, I am not destroyed. I continue to live." The soul is eternal. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Eternal, very old, still, after the destruction of the body, the soul is never destroyed. Death means destruction of this outer, gross material body. Every day, every night we have got experience: the body lies down on the bed, but with my subtle body-mind, intelligence and ego-I dream and I go somewhere else from my bedroom. So this is going on daily in our experience, that I leave this gross body, I take my subtle body, and I do something else, although my body is here. The conclusion is therefore that I, the soul, am changing my body from the gross to the subtle, from the subtle to the gross. In our daily life we have got experience that I accept this subtle body. The subtle body is there. There is no question of acceptance. But with the subtle body I dream, and again when the dream is over, then I come to this gross body. So death means when the subtle body carries the soul to another gross body, not this gross body, that is called death. So this subtle body-means mind, intelligence and ego*-that carries me to another body according to the nature of my mind. At the time of death, as the mind is absorbed, I mean to say, full of thoughts, according to that full of thoughts, we are given another gross body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that anta-kale, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Bhāvam, the attitude, the modes of the mind at the time of death, will carry me to the next gross body. Therefore it is necessary to prepare ourself what kind of body we are going to get after death. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "After death, the soul," tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], "gets another body." Now, we can see in our experience, there are so many different types of bodies. There are 900,000 species of bodies in the water. There are two million different types of bodies in the vegetables kingdom, means the trees and plants. There are eleven hundred thousand species of life in the insect kingdom. There are one million types of bodies in the bird kingdom. And there are three million types of bodies in the beast life. And there are 400,000 species of body in the human society. Out of them, the civilized man is considered to be perfectly in bodily situation.

*So this human form of body is given to us by nature to understand God. In other forms of life there is no chance of understanding God. Therefore it is our duty, everyone's duty, before the next death comes, we must understand what is God. If we simply misuse this body like cats and dogs, then we are missing the chance. We cannot say that we are free. That is not possible. We are completely under the control of the material nature. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇair karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

iti manyate mūḍha

[Bg. 3.27]



*That we, everyone of us, at the present moment in our conditional state of life, we are completely under the, I mean to say, mercy or care of the material nature. There are three modes of material nature, namely goodness, passion and ignorance. When we are under the control of this material nature, we associate with either of these qualities. If we associate with the quality of goodness, then we are promoted in the higher world. This is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



Means "Those who are associating with the modes of material nature goodness, they will be promoted to the higher planetary system. Those who are associating with the modes of passion, they'll remain in the middle planetary system." [break]



So as it is said that in the beginning was the word, that means before the creation there was the transcendental sound. So that word, or transcendental sound, is not like the material sound. If we associate with the transcendental sound Hare Kṛṣṇa, then we become purified to become transcendental. Just like we can have a crude example. You take one iron rod and put into the fire. The iron rod will be warm, warmer, and gradually it will be red hot. When it is red hot, then it is no longer the iron rod; *it is fire. So how it has become fire? By association with the fire. Simply, therefore, if you simply keep yourself touch with God by the vibration of transcendental sound, gradually you become godly. So as soon as you become godly, you become the same quality*-aiśvaryasya samagrasya: full riches, full power, full strength, full knowledge, everything full. Therefore the Vedic instruction is tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't keep yourself in darkness. Come to the light." So our only request is at the present moment, the whole world is for want of godly understanding. They are in darkness. So our duty is, when we have got this privilege of this human form of life, we should not keep ourself in darkness. Darkness means without any knowledge of the soul and God. So long I am thinking that "I am this body," it is in darkness. Except the human being, any other living being, they are all in darkness. Therefore human being's business is not to keep himself in darkness, but come to the light. So long we have got this material body, there are four necessities of life. They are eating, sleeping, sex intercourse and defense. So the cats and dogs, they also eat, they sleep, they have sex life and they can defend also. So therefore a human being should not be educated only for these four principles of animal necessities. The human necessity is to understand God. Therefore in civilized human society, there is some system of religion. Either you call it Christianity, Muhammadanism, or Hinduism, in civilized society there must be some form of religion. And a human being is supposed to follow the principles to have complete knowledge about God and himself, to know "What is the relationship between God and me?" and what is the goal of life.

*So it doesn't matter whether you are Christian, Hindu, Muslim. The real purpose of life is to know God. And in the Vedic literature it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣāt bhagavat*-praṇītam: Dharma, or religion, means the codes given by God. Just like in the state we have got practical experience. We, if we abide by the laws of the state, then we are good citizen, peaceful citizen... (yelling noises and applause in the audience) (aside:) What is that?

Jyotirmayī: They don't like this because they don't like the laws of the state. So when you use the example of the state, they don't like it.



Prabhupāda: You may not like, sir, but if you do not follow you will be punished. (boos and yells) Anyway, if you do not follow the codes and laws of the state or God, then certainly you will be punished. (yelling) You may declare independence, but there is no, I mean, the possibility of such independence. That requires knowledge. (someone yelling)



Jyotirmayī: He is saying that there are some people who would like to ask some questions.



Prabhupāda: So immediately if you want to put some questions, then I can stop. Or if you want me to go on speaking I will speak. As you like. (more yelling) We can stop speaking?



Yogeśvara: Jyotirmayī will say we can have questions after you finish.



Prabhupāda: No, we can finish it now.



Jyotirmayī: (French)



*Prabhupāda: So now let us conclude that there is God and God's word, or God's vibration, means God is person. As soon as we accept the word of God, then we have to conclude that God is a person. Just like you are vibrating some words, I am vibrating some words. This means both of us, we are all persons. So the word of God and God is not different. But God is person and He speaks. If He speaks, then He hears, He smells, He eats*-everything. All the activities are there. If He cannot hear, then our prayer to Him, "O God, give us our daily bread," is useless. So from this statement of the scripture, either you take it Bible or Bhagavad-gītā, it is understood that God is a person like you. That is the statement of the Vedas, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), namely that God means He is the supreme being. In the dictionary also it is stated, "God means the Supreme Being." We are all beings, but God is the Supreme Being. Just like in every state, there are citizens, but there is one chief citizen. He is president or something like that. (noise in the audience)



Jyotirmayī: They don't like this government example.



Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not example. It is stated in the Vedic literature. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is the chief living being amongst all living beings. God, is eternal; we are also eternal. God is also a living being; we are also a living being. This is the meaning. But God is one; we are many. And what is the significance of that one? That is stated: eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. "That one is maintaining so many living beings." That is God. So because He is a person, we are also person, but He is the person who maintains us. Therefore we go to God and beg for our daily bread. So our constitutional position is that we are predominated, and God is predominator. We are very small; God is very great. At the present moment we are defying this position; *therefore we are in trouble. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are educating people that "You are always subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. You surrender unto Him and you be happy. Do not remain in rebellious condition of life. Just surrender to God and you will be happy." That is the final conclusion of Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So you are planning, we are planning so many things to become happy, but everything is failure. But if you take this plan, "Let us surrender to God," then every problem will be solved. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not that, that "You are Hindu. You become Christian," or "You are Christian. You become Hindu." That is not our plan. Our only request is that "Every one of you, you try to understand God, love Him and be happy." The final conclusion in the Bhagavad-gītā is that if you want to be peaceful, if you want the peace of your mind, you should understand three things. That three things are that to understand that God is the supreme enjoyer. This is one. He is the proprietor of everything, and He is friend of everyone. If you learn these three things only, very scientifically, that God is the proprietor, God is the enjoyer, and God is the supreme friend of everyone, then your life is successful. And these simple things will be understood by you by chanting God's name: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Hare means the energy of God, and Kṛṣṇa means God, all-attractive. Similarly, Rāma means God. So there are three words in this verse: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare: Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma. So anyone can chant these three names, Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, and make his life successful. I hope you shall join us in this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.



Jyotirmayī: They want to ask questions.



Prabhupāda: That you arrange. That arrange. No, you can ask. That's all.



Question: (French) (big applause)



*Jyotirmayī: So he is saying that "You have been explaining what is God according to Bible and Bhagavad*-gītā." So he wants to know if to be able to talk in that way you have met God, you have seen God, and if God has given you the authority for being seated on this vyāsāsana and receiving the obeisances of your disciples.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You can also get this position. If you know God and if you can speak about God, then you are also welcome to sit here and speak about God.



Jyotirmayī: (translating) He says that the only thing he can say about God is that he cannot talk about God.



Prabhupāda: Why? You can talk about everything, and why not about God?



Jyotirmayī: (translating) "Because God is one who cannot be seen, cannot be taken to be understood."



*Prabhupāda: But that is your statement. But the Bible statement, Bhagavad*-gītā statement is different. Why shall I take you as authority?



Jyotirmayī: (translating) He says that God means freedom, and God will not be...



Prabhupāda: How do you know it? First of all let me know how you know it about God that He is freedom or this or that. How you know it?



Jyotirmayī: (translating) "Because everyone has inside him knowledge of God, and one just has to listen within himself and he will know."



Prabhupāda: So I have got my own knowledge of God as you have got. Why you disagree with me?



Jyotirmayī: (translating) He says but he doesn't sit on a throne and he doesn't ask people to pay obeisances in front of him.



Prabhupāda: So if you want to hear me, I can get down from the throne. (big applause and yells) (some man makes an announcement in French) (general talk in French and many people yelling things out from the audience)



Jyotirmayī: He is saying two things. He is saying that when one wants to understand, he must act as a student.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good, very good. (people still yelling) Now let us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. (end)





740619LE.GER

Public Lecture

-

Konigstein, Germany, June 19, 1974



*Prabhupāda: ...because it is full of cheating, full of mistake, full of illusion, imperfectness, then how you can understand the thing or the person who is beyond your perception? That is not possible. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. This is Vedic instruction, that "Things which are beyond your perception, don't try to understand by this foolish argument and logic." Don't try to understand. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā. Acintya means beyond your conception. Cintya means within you perception, and acintya means beyond your conception. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa. You cannot understand by this rascal logic and philosophy. That is not possible. Then how it is to be understood? There are many places. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. These blunt senses, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's qualities, Kṛṣṇa's activities*-you cannot understand. Then I have got this... This is my, in possession. How can I understand Kṛṣṇa? That is said, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. When you engage your tongue in the service of the Lord. Now, this is also another peculiar thing, that to understand by the tongue, not by the mind. Tongue. Tongue means we have got two businesses we perform with the tongue. One is tasting foodstuff and vibrating voice. So you use the tongue vibrating Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam-bas. Then you understand Kṛṣṇa. You don't understand, but He reveals.



*And actually that is happening. All over the world, these young boys and girls, because they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and because they are eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam, now they are developing their Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are not Vedantist. They have not studied all the Vedas. But how they are understanding? If they are not understanding Kṛṣṇa, how they are sticking to this life? In this life everything is forbidden: no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication. Everything no. Material life finished. Why they are sticking unless they are understanding Kṛṣṇa? This is the proof. The more you stick to these principle, sevonmukhe jihvādau, engage your tongue in two business*-chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda-your life will be perfect.

Thank you very much. [break] Any question?

*Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad*-gītā that "Of all the senses, I am the mind."



Prabhupāda: You first of all question on the topics we have finished. Of course, this is also pointing... What is your question? Go on.



Devotee (1): Well, you explained that we have three kinds of miseries: ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika and ādhidaivika. So ādhyātmika is the misery also of the mind.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee (1): How can I understand?



*Prabhupāda: Well, the, a mind is sometimes not in order. That is ādhyātmika. Suppose somebody comes to me and asks some question. I am not thinking, but...(?) "Well, later on I shall say." That means mind is not in order. You are hearing Bhagavad*-gītā, but your mind may be somewhere else. So there is... This is mind's disease, rejecting and accepting. There is mind's disease; there is bodily disease. That is called ādhyātmika.



Indian man: Kṛṣṇa says according to your, as you said, learn to tolerate. Learn to endure, toleration. And what... How can one be better equipped to tolerate these despairs and miseries of our human existence?



Prabhupāda: The more he understands that he is not body. The more he understands that "I am not this body," then he can tolerate. And if we become disturbed by the pains and pleasure of the body, then we shall forget our real business. Our real business is to get out... I am not this body, but this human body is a chance how to get out of this body. That is my real business. So if we are disturbed by these bodily pains and pleasure very much, then I forget my real business. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised, taror api sahiṣṇunā.



tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

[Cc. Ādi 17.31]



Tṛṇād api sunīcena. Just like grass. Everyone is trampling over the grass. The grass does not protest. Therefore humbler than the grass. And tolerant than the tree. In this way we shall have to keep our position in this material world and advance in spiritual consciousness. If we become disturbed, then we cannot make progress. Suppose we are prohibiting so many things. Especially in the Western world, this is very painful. But you have to tolerate. If you want to get out of this body, you have to tolerate. Actually it is not painful. If you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is not difficult. It is very easy. It is not very. So any other question?



Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, how does one develop his desire, then, to get out of this body?



Prabhupāda: No desire. No material desire. Simply think of how to push on this movement. That desire and no other desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. No material desire. Śūnyam. Make zero all material desires. Simply desire, "How shall I push on? How shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? How shall I decorate this?" Therefore we have given so many engagements, to divert the desire. Desire cannot be stopped. That is not possible. Those foolish persons are: "Become desireless." That is not possible. Desireless means I am dead. No. Purify desire. Purify desire. You have got the desire for driving motorcar. Just drive motorcar for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (laughter) You see? This is the... Change the quality of the desire. Desire cannot be stopped. That is not possible. I want to eat very nice foodstuff. All right, eat remnants of foodstuff. We offer Kṛṣṇa the best food. That is the regulative principle. Kṛṣṇa also should be offered the best foodstuff, and you take the remnants. Kṛṣṇa is not so hungry that He is... He is taking, but He is leaving also. That is Kṛṣṇa's eating. Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi: [Bg. 9.26] "Anyone who is offering Me these foodstuff made of patraṁ puṣpam, vegetable and food grains and milk and this..." He never says, "Give Me meat or eggs." No. He never says. He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. These foodstuffs we can prepare nicely in so many ways, and Kṛṣṇa says, "If somebody offers Me with faith and love, I eat it." Now, the question is, you see that "Whatever I offer, these things are there. How Kṛṣṇa has eaten?" Therefore His eating process is different. But He has eaten. That you have to learn from the śāstra, that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. He is not hungry; *still, He can eat the whole world. But still, the world remains as it is. That will require some brain to understand. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa eats. Kṛṣṇa eats and again keeps the whole thing as it is for your eating. So you are not loser. If you offer to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will eat and He will again get you the foodstuff for eating. That is His fullness. That is His fullness. So therefore you prepare very, very nice foodstuff and offer to Kṛṣṇa and take it. Then your desire for eating nice foodstuff will be automatically fulfilled. And at the same time become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you do this? Anyone can do, either in this temple or at home. But they will not worship Kṛṣṇa. They will worship a dog. Instead of God, keeping dog and taking all care. This is the mentality. Then next life he becomes a dog. Because he has got good faith and love for dog, therefore he becomes dog. And if you have got good faith and love for Kṛṣṇa, you become a body like Kṛṣṇa. Unless you have got the same type of body, how you can play with Kṛṣṇa, dance with Kṛṣṇa? Therefore when Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti... [Bg. 4.9]. If you become a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then after giving up this body, you get a body like Kṛṣṇa, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. That should be the aim of life. All right, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





740622SP.GER

Public Speech

-

Bad Homburg, Germany, June 22, 1974



Prabhupāda: (translated into German by German devotee) ...for this civilized human form of body. We have to pass through 900,000 forms of aquatic body within the water. Then gradually we come to the form of trees and plants. They are two million varieties. Then we get the bodies of the insect. There are 900,000 forms of body. Then we enter into the species of birds, one million forms of body. Then after bird's body, there are three million different varieties of beast's body. Then after this period, we become human body, but there are 400,000 species of human body. And thus we get this nice human form body with good brain and good consciousness. So it should be utilized properly. By the laws of nature... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. This is the law of nature. Gradually we develop different types of body and different types of consciousness. So when we come finally to God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the perfection of life.



*So we are living in this planet, but in other planets also there are different forms of life. So there is one planet... There are many millions of planet. Specifically, there is one planet within this universe that is called Siddha*-loka. There is other planet also, heavenly planet, Brahmaloka planet, and in different planets there are different species of life, different standard of comforts, but in the higher planetary system, the standard of comfort is more and more, thousand times more, thousand times more, in this way. Just like in this planet we have got different standard of life. In your Western countries your standard of life is... At least, it is to be understood more comfortable than other standard of life. In this way, if you promote yourself to the topmost planetary system, which is called Brahmaloka, then you get your duration of life, many millions of years. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. In the Brahmaloka planet, the residents, they have got their one day. One day means daytime, not nighttime, twelve hours, say. That is equal to... Their twelve hours is equal to our millions of years, sahasra-yuga. Sahasra-yuga means forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand. That is called sahasra-yuga. Such is the, the such duration of time is equal to twelve hours in the Brahmaloka planet. So even if you go to the Brahmaloka planet... You read that, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna. Read it.

Satsvarūpa:



*ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ

punar āvartino 'rjuna

mām upetya tu kaunteya

punar janma na vidyate

[Bg. 8.16]



Prabhupāda: So our natural tendency is to go to other, better planet. Therefore people are trying to go the moon planet. Similarly, you can go to the sun planet, you can go to the Brahmaloka planet, Siddhaloka planet, heavenly planet. There are so many. But the information is, even though you reach the topmost planet of this universe, still, there the four principles of material life, namely birth, death, old age and disease, are there. So we can go to the topmost planet. There is process how to go:



*ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva*-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

*jaghanya*-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

[Bg. 14.18]



*If you keep yourself in sattva*-guṇa, or in the modes of goodness, you are promoted to the higher planetary system, even to the topmost planetary system. That is called ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā [Bg. 14.18]. And if you keep yourself in the modes of passion, you shall remain within the middle planetary system. This is middle planetary system. This earthly planet, it is called Bhurloka. Then above this there is Bhuvarloka. Then above that, Svarloka. That is heavenly planet. The heavenly planets begins from the moon planet. And... So Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And those who are in the modes of darkness, they go down, down, down. The animal life is also amongst the down, I mean to say, modes of life. So this human form of life is a chance to make our choice where we shall go next, in the higher or in the lower, or we shall remain here. So how to go to the higher planetary system, that is also mentioned. Yānti deva-vratā devān. Read this.



Satsvarūpa:



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vrataḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Prabhupāda: So if we like, we can go to the higher planetary system, heavenly planetary system. Just like we are trying to go to the moon planet, but we have not been successful. In this way we can go there. Each planet, each and every planet, has got different atmosphere. So unless your body is completely competent to live in such planet, you cannot go there. Just like the scientists say that in the moon planet the temperature is two hundred degrees below zero. Similarly, in the sun planet, the temperature is very, very high, hundred and thousand times degrees above the normal. So in this way every planet has got different atmosphere, different temperature, different standard of life, different duration of life. So one has to become competent to transfer himself in a particular type of planet. So we, as spirit soul, dehi, the possessor of this body... Dehi means one who possesses this body or the occupier of the body, the spirit soul. That is eternal, changing body only, but eternal. Therefore we should not be interested to these different types of temporary body. That is not very good intelligence. So we have to prepare ourself, if we want. There are the full description of each and every planet, and we can prepare ourself according to our desire which planet we wish to go. But Kṛṣṇa says, mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām: [Bg. 9.25] "Persons who are engaged in My occupational duties, they will come to Me."



*So (to) go to God or Kṛṣṇa means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

avināśi tu tad viddhi

yena sarvam idaṁ tatam

vināśam avyayasyāsya

na kaścit kartum arhati



*The hint is given: "The something which is spread all over the body, that is eternal." And what is that something? That something is our consciousness. Here it is stated, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tataḥ. In this body there is something. That is consciousness. That is eternal. Just like if you or I pinch my body, I feel pain because the consciousness is there. But when the consciousness will not be there, if I cut my hand or cut your hand, you will not protest. Even scientists have proved this consciousness is there in the tree also. If you cut the tree, there is sensation, feelings of pain, and that is recorded in the machine. So here it is hinted that this consciousness is spread all over the body. That is eternal. The body is not eternal. As soon as the consciousness is gone, the body is dead. Therefore we should take care of the thing which is consciousness. That is the soul. On account of presence of the soul, there is consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa further says in this connection, antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ [Bg. 2.18]. This body*-deha means body-antavat, it is perishable. Nityasya uktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. But the thing which is covered by this material body, that is eternal. So that consciousness of the rays of the soul is described here: na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. This consciousness, or the soul, is never born, neither it is ever dead. Nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ. The soul and the consciousness has no past, present or future. It is eternal. Ajo. Ajaḥ means who does not take birth. Ajo nitya, eternal. Śāśvataḥ, ever-existing. Ayaṁ purāṇa, the oldest. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. When the body is annihilated, the soul and consciousness is not annihilated. Just like when we sleep our consciousness works in a different body, subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. That we have got experience every night. We sleep on our bed, but my consciousness goes to other country or other place and work in a different way. Again when at the end of the dream, we come back to this body, gross body. So death means when the consciousness does not come back again to this gross body and enters another gross body. This period is called death.



So the subtle body, mind is there. I know you have got mind, you know I have got my mind, but I cannot see your mind; you cannot see my mind. So there is intelligence also. I know you have got intelligence; you know I have got intelligence, but you cannot see my intelligence unless it is acted; *I cannot see your intelligence unless it is acted. So the soul is covered by two kinds of dresses, just like we are covered by the shirt and the coat. Similarly, the coverings of the shirt are mind, intelligence and ego. This is one covering. And upon this there is a gross covering, earth, water, air, fire, like that. In this way we have got two covers. So our business is, because we are eternal, we should not remain in these temporary coverings. That temporary co... So long we are bound up or encaged in this covering, that is called conditioned life. So we are trying to become freed from this conditioned life. Just like people are trying to go to the moon planet. The desire is there. But because the life is conditioned, he cannot go. Just like I am a foreigner. I have come to your country. I am conditioned by your immigration law. There are so many conditions. One of the condition is that I cannot live here forever unless it is sanctioned by the government. So we are conditioned now. In this form of life, covered by the material elements, we are conditioned by the material nature. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*We are conditioned in every step by the laws of material nature. Still, foolishly we are thinking we are free. This is foolishness. We are so much controlled by the material nature, exactly like a small child is pulled by the ear by its mother. "Come here"*-he comes here. "Go there." Just like a dog. A dog may feel very freedom jumping, but as soon as the master says, "Come here," he comes and immediately chained. This is our position.



So that is our position, that we are completely under the clutches of material nature, and according to the modes of material nature, we are acting and changing our body in different species of life. So our real business in this human form of life is to get, try to accept the process by which we can get free from this conditioned life. The process is that we have to give up all our false consciousness. We are under false consciousness. I am thinking, "I am Indian," you are thinking you are German, and the dog is thinking, "I am dog," and cat is thinking, "I am cat." So this bodily consciousness, bodily concept of life, will keep us conditioned within the material nature. Therefore our first business is how to get free from all these designations. Just like I am putting on this saffron cloth, but I am not saffron cloth. Or you are putting red cloth or black coat; *you are not black coat. Within the coat, you are the person. Similarly, within the dress, I am the person. So at the present moment we are on the dress consciousness: "I am German dress," "I am Englishman dress," "I am Indian dress," "I am male dress," "I am female dress." So this is called conditioned life. So in this conditioned life we are accepting one type of body and we are dying. Dying means giving up and being transmigrated, transferred to another body by the laws of material nature. It is not under my control. You cannot say that "After giving up this German body, I shall accept again another German body." That is not in your hands, sir. It is under the laws of nature. You cannot propose. You cannot force material nature. After this body, I can get any other body. That is stated here: tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Another form of a body. That form of body may be any one of the 8,400,000 forms of body. Therefore, if we are actually intelligent, we should try for being awakened or placed in our original body, the spiritual body. That will stop this constant change of body.

*So the simple process is, as we are preaching in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that if you try to understand only what is Kṛṣṇa*-Kṛṣṇa or Christ, the same thing-then you get your original, spiritual body. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be awakened simply by chanting the mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, or the holy name of God. So keep yourself aloof from four kinds of sinful life, and keep always in touch with Kṛṣṇa and God. Then you will go back to home back to Godhead. This advantage is possible in this human form of life; otherwise, we are missing the chance. We may be again put in the cycle of that 8,400,000 forms of body. The process is very simple and easy because you can remain in your occupation, in whatever position you are. Simply you chant the holy name of God. Not only Hare Kṛṣṇa, you can chant the holy name of God, "Christ." Christ is also the same as Kṛṣṇa. So do it. There is no expenditure, but the profit is very, very great.

So the conclusion is we should not put ourself in the cycle of birth and death continually in 8,400,000 species of life, to stop it and go back to home, back to Godhead, and regain your original spiritual life.

So thank you very much. If you have got any question on the subject matter, you can ask.

Question: If chanting means out loud, how can you do it all day while you are working and in so many different situations? How can you chant out loud?



Prabhupāda: You chants slow. There is no harm. Either loud or slow, it doesn't matter, but you chant the holy name of God.



Question: Why do we say to chant but not sing?



Prabhupāda: Same thing. Either you sing or chant, the same thing.



Question: What is the meaning of this chanting? If you chant all day long, do you reach a certain consciousness?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. By chanting the holy name of God, you associate with God. God is Absolute. He is not different from His name. So when you chant God's name, means you immediately become in touch with God. And by chanting more and more, your association becomes more and more intimate. Then everything is disclosed to you. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



If you keep in touch with God with faith and love, then God is within yourself. He will give you intelligence how you can go back to home, back to Godhead. There are many different processes or yoga systems to be in touch with God, but for the people in this age, this is the easiest method, to be in touch with God simply by chanting His holy name.



Question: By chanting, it might be possible to get this result to reach a higher consciousness. But it can happen that on account of chanting I forget my neighbor and just drop the all things around.



Prabhupāda: Well, by chanting loudly you will also help your neighbor, who will hear you. And when he comes to complain, "Why you disturbing?" then your mission is successful. That means he has heard. So that you hear and let your neighbors also hear. Both of them benefited. And that is the greatest benefit you can render to your neighbor.



*Question: Actually, there is no difference between, for example, chanting the word "tree, tree, tree" again and again or the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. It depends on the meaning which we put into the words. And if you chant a particular word like Hare Kṛṣṇa and you have a particular meaning, like for you it's a holy word, then it might be something like auto*-suggestion to you.



Prabhupāda: I have already explained that God and His name, the one, Absolute. In the material world your name and you, person, they are two different things. That is difference between God and you. So therefore, by chanting God's name, you actually contact with God. But in the material world that is not possible. Suppose I am thirsty; I want water. If I chant "water, water," it will not act. But in the case of chanting the holy name of God, it is as good as to associate with God. Try to understand. [break] That:



nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

*caitanya*-rasa-vigrahaḥ

*pūrṇaḥ śuddhaḥ nitya*-mukta

*abhinnatvāt nāma*-nāminoḥ

[Cc. Madhya 17.133]



*"The name of God and God is equally pūrṇa, perfect, śuddha, purified, pūrṇaḥ śuddhaḥ nitya, eternal, and pūrṇaḥ śuddhaḥ nitya*-mukta, and liberated from material contamination." So it is not the question of argument. You can try. There is no loss on your part. Chant the holy name of God and see the result yourself. In India also sometimes "Kṛṣṇa" is announced as "Kṛṣṭa." Or you announce as "Christo." It does not make... Because God will take your mind, not your pronunciation. If you mean to pronounce God's name, even it is not, I mean to say, formally or perfectly pronounced, still, God will understand that you are trying to chant His name. That is your perfection. [break] ..."Christo" or "Kristo" or "Kṛṣṇa," if He understands that you are hankering after Him, He will give the resultant action. And this is the easiest process in this age for God realization. Thank you very much. Let us chant. (end)





740628LE.MEL

Lecture at

St. Pascal's Franciscan Seminary

-

Melbourne, June 28, 1974



Father Greene: ...there is more to life than what we see and touch and hear, that there is a need for salvation, redemption, in one form or another. And that both these ideas, that we do not live on bread alone and that we need salvation, lead us to agree that there is something beyond this life which we can call at least in general, to use a technical word, the transcendence. I think within this context we can talk and discuss and agree at least to some extent. I would now like to ask one of the Australian members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement to introduce their leader to us in a more personal manner.



Madhudviṣa: Umāpati. Umāpati.



*Umāpati: We would like to introduce His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is the ācārya of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and who has mercifully come and delivered us with the blazing torchlight of transcendental knowledge to deliver us from this disease of material existence. I think he is going to lecture from the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Thank you very much. (applause)



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Father Greene and all other Fathers and Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this movement. So I will try to explain some of the verses from Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is considered to be the essence of Vedic literature. Vedic literature means the four Vedas: Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva, then Upaniṣad, 108 Upaniṣad, and eighteen Purāṇas, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata. It is an immense treasure-house of literature. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is one of the eighteen Purāṇas, and in this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there are eighteen thousand verses. So I am just trying to explain one or two verses.



*The Father Greene hinted the common platform of religion. Common platform is not very difficult to understand because religion means to know God and abide by the orders of God. That is religion. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is stated that dharmaṁ tu sākṣāt bhagavat-praṇītam. The... Religious system cannot be manufactured by man. No. Man-made religion is not religion. Religion means God-made religion. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣāt. Just like law. Law means the orders enunciated by the government. You cannot manufacture law at home. That is not law. Similarly, religion means the orders given by God. This is simple definition of religion. So we must know God, and we must know what is His order, and we should abide by the order. Then that is religion. So you take any type of religion, these three things are there: that we must try to know God, and what does He desires, and to fulfill it. Therefore in the Bhāgavatam it is said,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*It is said here that that is first*-class religious system. It does not say Hinduism, Muslimism or Christianism. General definition: "That is first-class religion..." Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo. Why it is said, para? Para means the supreme, not ordinary thing, supreme. "The supreme religious system is that which teaches the follower how to love God." That is supreme. It does not matter you learn to love God through Christianism or Hinduism or Muslimism, any "ism," but the result should be how much you have advanced in the art of loving God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. Bhakti, this word, Sanskrit word is used, "devotion," bhakti. To render service to God, that is bhakti. We are rendering service to so many things. That is not bhakti. Bhakti means to render service to God. And adhokṣaje. There are many terminology of understanding God, but here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, God is mentioned as adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond your sense perception. Another word is used, avāṅ mānasa-gocaraḥ, "beyond the expression of your mind, words." Avāṅ gocaraḥ. And another meaning, literal meaning, adha: adha means subdued. Adhakṛta akṣaja-jñānam. Akṣa. Akṣa means eyes, or... In Sanskrit there are letters beginning from a, a, i and, at last, kṣa. So beginning from a to kṣa, a-kṣa, means we understand by combination of words. So you can combine so many words, but still, it is beyond that expression. That is called adhokṣaja. So God is realized... Not by vocabulary we can understand what is the nature of God, or, in one word, that God is beyond our this material sense perception.



*It is said in the Vedic literature that ataḥ śrī*-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Kṛṣṇa is a name of God. So it is said that Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's attributes, Kṛṣṇa's activities... Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi begins from the name. So ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. Indriya means senses. We cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa, or God-His name, His form, His attributes, His pastimes... We cannot understand by these blunt material senses. Then how it is to be understood? After all, this human life is meant for understanding God. That is the only business of human life. The nature, material nature, gives us this opportunity to have this human form of life. The facility of this life, of this form of life, is given to us just to understand God. Other forms of life, cats and dogs, trees and so many other things... There are 8,400,000 forms of life. So in other forms of life it is not possible to understand what is God. If we call all the dogs of your country, "Come here. We shall talk about God," no, there is no possibility of understanding. But in the human form of life there is possibility. It doesn't matter whether it is in India or America or Australia. Any human being, if he tries and if he reads the scriptures-never mind, Bible, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata-then he will understand God. Therefore this life, human form of life, is only meant for understanding God. If we divert our attention to any other business, that means we are spoiling our energy. Because what are the activities? That... Everyone is active for sleeping, eating, having sexual intercourse and defending. So these things are present even cats and dogs. They also eat, they also sleep, they also have propensity for sex intercourse and they also defend, in their own way. So if human life is also spoiled only on these activities, then you are missing the chance. Human activities should be to understand God or the Absolute Truth. That is the philosophy of Vedānta philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Vedānta. Veda means knowledge, and anta means ultimate.

*So we are acquiring knowledges in so many departmental, but the ultimate knowledge is to know God. Therefore Vedānta says that "Now, this life, atha, atha..." Atha ataḥ brahma*-jijñāsā. Just like the birds. In the morning, they also talk, "Where we shall go this morning to get some fruits and some eatables?" So these questions they do, and there is some talking, "ki-chi mihi." So not that kind of question. The questions "What is God? What I am? What is my relationship with God? What is the ultimate goal of life?" These questions and answers should be in the human society. Unless these questions arises-"What is God? What is this material nature? Who has created it? How it is created? How it is going on?" so many things... The main principle is naturally, if we are philosophical minded, we inquire that "How this world is created? Who has created?" And there are many different ways of answering. But the Vedānta-sūtra answers that the, whatever we are seeing, all this cosmic manifestation, the creator is God, Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So God, or the Supreme Truth, Absolute Truth is that from whom everything has come. So that is the beginning of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], "Absolute Truth is that from whom everything has come into existence." So the common platform is therefore, if we try to understand the Supreme Soul, and we turn our loving propensities to that Supreme Soul, that is called religion. Religion is not kind of... In the dictionary it is said, "Religion is a kind of faith." No. It is a permanent, I mean to say, arrangement. It is not the faith. Faith we can change. Today I am Hindu; I can become Christian tomorrow. You are Christian; *you can change your faith tomorrow. So religion... In Sanskrit word religion does not mean faith. Religion means the original characteristic. That is called religion. So original characteristic means that cannot be changed. That quality, that characteristic is always with us. So Vedic version is that the living entity is eternal servant of God. When he forgets this relationship, that he is eternal servant of God, that means his material existence. In the material existence, nobody is prepared to become servant. Everyone is prepared to become the master. That is struggle for existence. Everyone is trying to become master. Even in the cats' and dogs' society you will find one dog is trying to predominate by barking that "I am better than you." So this is called struggle for existence. Everyone, individual to individual, nation to nation, society to society, religion to religion, so*-called religion-everyone is trying to become the master. Nobody is trying to become the servant. But real position is we living entities, we are eternal servant of God. As soon as we forget this formula, we are in the material existence. And as soon as we revive this, our original consciousness, that is called spiritual platform. Therefore we are propagating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, to come to the point to understand that we are eternal servant of God.

*So here it is enunciated that "That is first*-class religious system which teaches the followers how to become again servant of God." That is first-class religion. So how to become servant of... If one agrees... The Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the last instruction is... Many types of instructions are there: karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, bhakti-yoga. But Kṛṣṇa is ultimately instructing Arjuna that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Your only business is to surrender unto Me, because you are My eternal servant. You rebelled to serve Me. You wanted to live independently in this material world, to become the master, artificially trying to become master. You give up this propensity. You surrender unto Me. Then you will be happy." And Kṛṣṇa assures that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "And when you have surrendered, I will excuse you from all reaction of sinful life." Why He has said, "sinful life"? Because in the material world every activity is sinful, because the main principle is how to become master. Therefore to become master everyone is prepared to do anything, never mind whether sinful or pious. Another meaning is that if we do anything against the order of God, that is sinful. Just like in Bible also there are so many commandments that "You shall not do this," because they are sinful. A sinful man cannot approach God. That is the verdict of Vedic literature.

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*One who is completely free from the reaction of sinful life, he can completely devote in the service of the Lord. So the common platform is there. God is neither Hindu nor Muslim, nor the method of approaching God may be different, but the ultimate end is how to love God or how to serve God. One cannot serve anybody without love. In the material world one serves another for matter of money exchange, reward. But serving God is not that. Here it is stated, ahaituky apratihatā. Service of God is without motive. Here in the material world we serve somebody with a motive, for some material gain. But in the spiritual world, to serve God means "It is my duty. I love him. I want to serve Him." Just like mother loves child. It is not like the maidservant who is paid. Mother loves spontaneously child, as duty. He (she) loves to serve the child. Similarly, when our love of God will be spontaneous, without any motive, and without being impeded... Love of God cannot be checked by any material condition. It is not that because a man is poor, therefore he cannot love God. No. If a man is very rich, therefore he cannot love. No. Ahaituky apratihatā. Whatever you may be, you can learn how to love God without any impediment. And if we come to that stage of life*-here it is said, yayātmā suprasīdati-then you will be fully satisfied and pleased. If you are engaged in the service of the Lord without any motive and without being impeded, spontaneously loving, then you will feel complete satisfaction. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. There are many instances of devotees. One Dhruva Mahārāja, he was five-years-old boy. So there was some family dissension. He was insulted by his stepmother. So he wanted to retaliate, five-years-old boy. So he inquired from his mother, "How can I do it?" The mother advised that "You take shelter of God. He can help you." So a five-years-old boy, he went to the forest and meditated for six months, and when he saw God, then he said, "My Lord, I am now fully satisfied. I don't want any benediction from You." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce. That is the real realization of God. God realization means there is no more want, no more want. All demands, all want, is finished. Therefore it is said, yayātmā suprasīdati. Because we want something, there is demand. So long there is demand, we will never be satisfied. When there is no demand, fully satisfied, that is God realization. Yenātmā samprasīdati.



*So the common platform is there. At the present moment people are suffering. Not at the present moment-always. Anyone who is in this material world, he is full of anxieties, because material wants cannot be satisfied at any time. It will simply increase. So unless one comes to God consciousness understanding, there is no possibility of satisfying. Yenātmā samprasīdati. Prasīdati means fully satisfied, no more want. There are many places. Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate: [Bg. 6.20-23] "If you are situated in that position, then the most dangerous type of unhappiness cannot agitate you." If you are fixed up in God consciousness, then nothing of these material disturbances can agitate you. Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena. So people should try to attain that perfect transcendental position so that he is fully satisfied, no more want. So that is called bhakti-yoga, and we are teaching and propagating this bhakti-yoga. People are disturbed in so many ways in this age of Kali. To give them real satisfaction of life is to awaken them to the platform of God consciousness. So the simple method is chanting the holy name of God. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means addressing the energy of God, Hara. God is with His energy. Just like fire is with its energy, heat and light, similarly, God has got energies, many energies. The principal energies are the spiritual energy and the material energy. So we are under the material energy at the present moment. So we have to transfer ourself to the spiritual energy, because we are spirit. Just like you take the fish on the land. Because land is not the place for the fish, however you try to make him comfortable, he will never be comfortable. You throw him in the water*-he is comfortable. Similarly, we are spirit. We are now encaged within this material body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. So our business should be how to get out of this material energy and put ourself under the spiritual energy. Then our life will be fully satisfied. So in this human life, this is a prerogative, how to get out of this material energy and put again into the spiritual energy. So this process is described: sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. To put ourself again into the spiritual energy means we have to get free from the designation. What are the designation? "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that"-these are designation. And to become free from designation means "I do not belong to any of these categories. I am eternal servant of God." If you come to that position, then that is the common platform. Let everyone perceive that he is eternal servant of God. Then all the problems will be solved.

So this is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and we are chanting the holy name of God, and we are recommending others also to chant the holy name of God. God must be, must have some name. In the Bible also it is said... What is that? "Hallowed be thy name"?

Satsvarūpa: "Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name."



Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is name. God's name is there. God's name is Christ or Kristo or Kṛṣṇa. So we can chant combinedly. Where is the difficulty? So those who are professing Christianity, never mind. You have got the name of God. Otherwise why Jesus recommended that "You glorify the name of God"? That is chanting. So let us combinedly glorify the name of God. This is common platform.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause)

Madhudviṣa: So if there are any questions, you can raise your hand, and we will have questions now, if you like. No questions? This means that everyone agrees. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Full agreement. That's nice.



Guest (1): Your devotees say that you aim to get beyond the stage of material existence. I don't quite pick up what your process was for doing this, and could you tell me what the end result is once you do get beyond this.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Madhudviṣa: In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the process is to get beyond the disease of material existence. The first part of his question is how to do this, the second part of this question, "What is the end result after taking to the process?"



*Prabhupāda: The process is to transfer yourself from material energy to spiritual energy. We are under energy. God has got two energies-material energy and spiritual energy. We are also energy. We are marginal energy. So marginal energy means we can remain under the material energy or on the spiritual energy, as we make our choice. Marginal... Just like on the beach you find sometimes on the border of the water, the water is covering the land, and sometimes the land is open. This is called marginal position. Similarly, we are marginal energy, or we can remain open also, in spiritual energy. So this process of, I mean to say, converting the material energy to spiritual energy is called bhakti-yoga. Just like this microphone. When it is used for some material purpose... Just like I am speaking. But sometimes the politicians or other parties or so many things*-this microphone can be utilized for so many purposes. And it can be utilized also, God's purposes. I am speaking through this microphone about the message of God. So when it is utilized for God's purposes it is spiritual. And when it is utilized for our material purposes or sense gratification, this is material. Just like electricity. Electricity is one energy. It can be utilized for heating purpose and cooling purpose. Similarly, God's energy is one, but when it is utilized for sense gratification, that is called material energy, and when it is used for service of God, then it is called spiritual energy. So to transfer ourself from material energy to spiritual energy is to begin service of God. Anything engaged in the service of God, that is spiritual. This is a hall. It can be utilized for selling wine and it can be utilized for speaking about God. So the place is the same, but when it is utilized for God's purpose, then it is spiritual. And (if) it is utilized for my sense gratification, that is material. That requires little guidance. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to God, but it becomes material and spiritual according to the purpose it is being utilized. So if you convert your life, everything for God-speaking for God, eating for God, sleeping for God, mating for God-then it is spiritualized. We have got four kinds of engagements: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Defending for God also. So actually everything belongs to God. Now we have to learn it, how to utilize it for God. That is our philosophy.



prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

*hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ

phalgu vairāgyaḥ kathyate



*To renounce this world is not very big thing because the world also, created by God. So instead of renouncing, if we utilize this God*-created material world for God's service, then it is spiritual. Because originally it belongs to God. Originally it is spiritual. Therefore in the higher sense there is nothing material. Everything is spiritual because everything is coming, emanating from the Supreme Spirit. So we have to learn the art how to utilize everything for God. Just like we are. We are also living in the house. Without a house, where can you live? We are also human being. We cannot lie down on the street. We have got some house, some protection. We are also eating, we are also sleeping, and we are also mating, and we are also defending. But it is in a different way. These boys and girls, some of them are married, so they are also begetting children, and that means mating. But you see in our temple, even small child, he is offering obeisances, he is offering a flower, he is also chanting, he is also dancing. So to make sex for begetting such children, it is also God. But if we beget children like cats and dogs, then it is material. Because there is no God consciousness. So everything can be turned. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ: without any attachment. Just like these boys, they are collecting money, but not a single farthing they are spending for themselves, not a single farthing. Everything collected is being utilized for God's book publication, for propaganda, for distribution. They are not earning less. We collect some day one thousand dollars, and we are collecting all over the world about thirty thousand dollars. Yes. But not a single paisa for personal use. Everything is utilized for propagating God consciousness. So in this way everything can be utilized. After all, it is God's property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Sarvam, whatever you see, that property belongs to God. We are falsely claiming, "It is my property." And that is māyā, illusion. Just like some portion of land, I am saying, "That is India," you are saying, "This is Australia," and they are saying, "It is England," but it is neither England nor Australia. It is all property of God. We have created man-made designation. So we have to give up this idea. The United Nations is there for the last twenty or thirty years. Before that, there was League of Nation. To unite. But how unity? "This portion is, sir, mine. This portion is mine." Why do they not agree that every part of this universe or this planet belongs to God? What is the difficulty? Actually it belongs to God, but they will not agree. They will fight, 'No, it is mine."



So these things have to be changed; *then there will be God consciousness, and everything will be happy. To accept the real fact, so many big, big brains, politician, but they have no sense to understand that the whole earthly planet belongs to God. It is created by God. It is the property of God. Everything, what is there in this earthly planet, that belongs to God. We are sons of God. Let us enjoy God's property. The son has got right to use. But I should not encroach upon your property or my property, but everything belongs to... Just like in a family. Everything belongs to the father, and the children, whatever father gives, you eat and live peacefully. Similarly, there is immense prospect for produce food for the whole human race on this globe, earthly planet. But because somebody is encroaching God's property-"This is mine, sir. You cannot come here"*-there is trouble. Otherwise... Just like your Australia. So much land, but you won't allow anybody to come. It is yours. Africa: so much land vacant. And "No, you cannot come. It is mine." And nobody is thinking that "It is God's and we are children of God. Let us produce." If we actually utilize the whole land of this earthly planet, we can produce ten times the necessity of the whole population. Where is the question of scarcity? But that understanding we haven't got. So unless you come to that, God consciousness, everything belongs to God... Just (like) the Communists, they are thinking that everything belongs to the state. But why don't you think everything belongs to God? Then the whole solution is there. But that they will not do. So therefore there is great necessity to propagate God consciousness to the people. It doesn't matter what religion is there. Religion is neither Christian religion... Religion is one. I have already explained. That is God consciousness, to abide by the orders of God. That is religion.

Guest (2): Your Divine Grace, when someone has a very little amount of God consciousness, he is a poor servant of God and doesn't love Him very much, do you see God as loving him still, and, say, wanting him to come to consciousness in helping him? (devotee repeats)



Prabhupāda: Yes. God loves you so much that He sends His son to convince you, "Please come to Me." God Himself comes, Kṛṣṇa: "Please come to Me." And what we are doing, servant of God? We are requesting only, "Please be God conscious." So God's propaganda is going on in so many ways to recall all these, I mean to say, bewildered sons of God, those who have forgotten. Naturally... Just like the father. He loves the son more than the son loves the father. Because as father, if one son has gone out of home, madness, he wants to live independently of the father, so he may think like that, crazy. But father, he says that "This rascal has gone. Some way or other, bring him. Let him live peacefully here. I have got immense property. Why he goes outside to live independently?" So that is his mistake, the son's mistake. The father is always anxious to get the son back to home, back to Godhead.



Guest (3): How would His Grace see Jesus Christ?



Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ, Lord Jesus Christ, is... He is son of God, the best son of God, so we have all respect for him. Yes. Anyone who is teaching people about God consciousness, he is respectful to us. It does not matter in which country, in which atmosphere, he was preaching. It doesn't matter.



Madhudviṣa: (repeating question) St. Francis, the founder of this particular order which we have been invited to speak to, found God in the material world. And he used to address the aspects of the material world as "brother" and "sister." "Brother tree," "sister water," like that. What is your view upon this?



*Prabhupāda: This is real God consciousness. This is real God consciousness, yes, not that "I am God conscious, and I kill the animals." That is not God conscious. To accept the trees, plants, lower animals, insignificant ants even, as brothers... Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. This is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

[Bg. 18.54]



Samaḥ. Samaḥ means equal to all living entities, to see the spirit soul, anyone... It doesn't matter whether he is man or cat or dog or tree or ant or insect or big man. They are all parts and parcel of God. They are simply dressed differently. One has got the dress of tree; one has got the dress of king; *one has got the, insect. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ: [Bg. 5.18] "One who is paṇḍita, learned, his vision is equal." So if St. Francis was thinking like that, that is highest standard of spiritual understanding. Similar expression is there in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti [Cc. Madhya 8.274]. A spiritually advanced devotee of the Lord, he sees the trees or the animals or the stone or the anything he sees*-he sees that it is the energy of God. Nā dekhe tāra mūrti. Just like your mūrti or my mūrti-mūrti means form-may be little different, but we are made of the same ingredients. If your body surgically operated, the same blood, stone, or bone, or flesh, everything is there the same because same ingredients. Similarly, our outward covering is covered by these material elements, but inside, within this, there is the spirit soul. Therefore one who is advanced, he does not see that "This is cat, this is dog, this is man, this is elephant, and this is brāhmaṇa, this is this..." No. He sees the soul, that "Here is the soul, part and parcel of God." That is his vision. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. So that is God realization. God is spirit, Supreme Spirit, and he is part and parcel, the living entities. That is real vision. Paṇḍitāḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ means learned.



Guest (4): The most obvious sign that we see of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is your chanting and reciting of the mantra. Are there other valid forms of reaching God consciousness?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We are lacking in God consciousness on account of being impure. So by chanting, glorifying the Lord's name, you will be purified. The example is, just like you put one iron rod in the fire. It become warm, warmer, at last red*-hot. When it is red-hot, it is no longer iron rod; it is fire by association with the fire. Similarly, if you remain always, constantly, in association with God, then you become godly, and you become purified. Then your vision will be clear. So God and God's name, the same, because God is Absolute. If you chant, glorify, God's name, that means you associate with God directly. And if we... Associate with God means you gradually become godly. This is the meaning of chanting the holy name of God.



Guest (5): Your Grace, all of us who are attached to a transcendental religion, I think we face a common problem, and I would like to hear you say how you see the answer to the problem: the problem of evil. If I put it in these terms, that all energy, all reality, is from God, the spiritual and the material. And material is good when we use it towards God consciousness, use it properly. But the thing that makes a difference is ourselves, the way we consciously use things differently. And the trouble is that in this consciousness, this is how we come closest to God, our consciousness in itself. Now, some people would say that the source of evil is individual consciousness, our consciousness as persons. Others would have other ways of answering. I was wondering how you yourself would say.



Prabhupāda: Individual consciousness and the supreme consciousness, God and we... We are all also the same principle. God is also living being, we are also living being, but He is the supreme living being. That is stated in the Vedas. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Nitya means eternal. God is eternal; we are also eternal. But because we have fallen down in this material existence, we have forgotten our eternity; *we are changing body. We are thinking, "I am this body." This is our misgivings. But God does not fall down. He is eternal. We are also eternal, but because we are very small fragment, sometimes we fall down. Therefore God's another name is Acyuta-"Never falls down." We cyuta, we fall down sometimes. When we fall down, then God comes to save us. So this is the difference between God and us, that we are also eternal and God is also eternal. We are also cognizant, God is also cognizant. In this way, qualitatively, you will find God and we are the same. But quantitatively we are different. So far consciousness is concerned, I am conscious about my bodily pains and pleasures, you are conscious about your bodily pains and pleasures. You are not conscious of my bodily pains and pleasure, I am not conscious of your bodily pains. But God is conscious of your consciousness and my consciousness and everybody. That is the difference between God and you and me. He knows what is pains and pleasure within you, He knows what is pains and pleasure within me or any living entity. He knows everything. Therefore He is all*-cognizant, all-powerful, almighty. He knows everything. That is explained in the... Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. He is cognizant of everything. He knows everything. In the Bhagavad-gītā also He says that "I know past, present, future everywhere." So consciousness is there. One is the supreme consciousness, and the other is this limited consciousness. So far we are concerned, our consciousness is limited, and so far God is concerned, His consciousness is unlimited. But we are both conscious. So far consciousness is concerned, the quality is one. But one, just like a drop of sea-water, Pacific Ocean. The taste is the same, salty, but a drop of water is very insignificant... [break]



Madhudviṣa: He wants to know... Kṛṣṇa says that once you are in the spiritual world you are full of bliss. Why would someone choose to come to this material world, which...?



Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. A rich man's son, he thinks that he will be happy independently. His father has got everything, but he goes out of home and chooses to live independently. That is a craziness. Similarly, when you come to this material world, giving up the protection of God, that is our craziness. So a crazy man must suffer. Therefore we are suffering. Yes. But you have the right to become a crazy. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





740701LE.MEL

La Trobe University Lecture

-

Melbourne, July 1, 1974



*Madhudviṣa: This afternoon His Divine Grace will be speaking from the Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. Some of you university students are familiar with the book the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā translated means "the song of God." Bhagavad-gītā is spoken five thousand years ago, and the peculiarity about this presentation of the Bhagavad-gītā is that it is the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, not the Bhagavad-gītā as we think it was, but the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as it was spoken by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna five thousand years ago. Our spiritual master is sitting before you. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Gosvāmī Mahārāja Śrīla Prabhupāda is in a direct disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa. Five thousand years of masters and disciples have passed this knowledge of the Bhagavad-gītā down purely. So therefore, when our spiritual master speaks on the Bhagavad-gītā, he does not speak on the Bhagavad-gītā as he thinks it is. He speaks on the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So without any more verbiage, I'll present our spiritual master.



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your joining us in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa, when I utter the word Kṛṣṇa, it means God. It is Sanskrit word, Kṛṣṇa. Those who are Sanskrit student, you know kṛṣ*-dhātu, "attraction," "one who attracts." God is the Supreme Being, full with six kinds of opulences; *therefore He attracts everyone. This is the definition of the word Kṛṣṇa. This Bhagavad*-gītā is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the perfect person. We receive knowledge from the perfect person. When we receive knowledge from imperfect person, the knowledge is not complete. At the present age, mostly the scientists, they cannot give us perfect knowledge, because there are so many "if's." They say, "It may be," "Perhaps," like that. But this is not perfect knowledge. The perfect knowledge means there is no "if," there is no "perhaps," there is no doubt. So we are receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the supreme perfect being. He says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Asmin dehe. Asmin means this, this body. You have got your body; I have got my body. So within this body, there is the proprietor of the body. Asmin dehe. Dehinaḥ asmin. Dehe means the proprietor of the body. I do not see you; I see your body, you see my body. But within the body the proprietor is lying, or he is situated. That we do not see. But we can understand. Suppose my beloved father is dead or somebody is dead. I cry, "My father is gone." So where is your father gone? He is lying there, unconscious. He may come to consciousness. But we say, "No, he is gone." Dead means gone. So factually I never saw my father who has gone. I saw the body of my father, and that is lying on the bed. Why I am crying, "My father is gone"? Therefore this is called ignorance. We do not see the real father within the body, or we do not see the real son within the body. We see the outward dress only. This is ignorance.



So we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on the platform of the spirit soul, which we do not see with these material eyes. This is great ignorance. After death we cry that "My father is gone," "My son is gone." But where he has gone? He is lying on the bed. Now, even still, we do not come to the understanding what is the difference between the living body and the dead body. There are so many theories, but as I have already told you that we receive knowledge from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. He says that within this body the owner of the body is there, and on account of the owner of the body presence, the body is changing. The owner of the body is sometimes in the childhood body; the owner of the body sometimes in a different boyhood body; *the owner of the body is sometimes in the youthhood body. Similarly, as he is changing different types of body during this duration of life, similarly, after this annihilation of this body, when it is old... Just like old garment or old coat, old shirt cannot be used*-it is thrown away; *another new shirt, new coat is taken*-similarly, this body, being annihilated, the soul accepts another body. This is a real knowledge. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā very broadly. Just like here it is said that,

*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyinaḥ anitya

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



Our real business, real education, is to understand, "What I am? I am not this body." But that education is lacking. So our main business is to understand that "I am not this body, and the bodily pains and pleasure, they are due to the change of season only." Just like now it is winter season. We are covering our body. In the summer season we do not like so heavily dressed. So this feeling of pains and pleasure is due to this material body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,



yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete

puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha

*sama*-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ

so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate



Real business of human life is to understand the spirit soul, and so far the material body is concerned, just like seasonal changes, we feel pains and pleasure. Just like water. In this winter season, on account of the seasonal change, we do not like to touch water at the present moment. But the same water in the summer season will be very pleasing. So the water is the same, but due to seasonal changes, sometimes the water is very pleasing and sometimes it is very painful. So this material world, so long we shall remain in the material world, the pains and pleasure on account of this material body we have to feel. But if we come to the spiritual platform, that is, understanding of the soul, then in any condition we shall be happy.



*That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā.

*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*Brahmā*-bhūtaḥ means self-realized, that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul." This is the first realization, self*-realization. So long we are not on this platform of spiritual understanding, we are equal to the animals. Animals, they do not know what is the difference between body and the soul. A dog is always thinking that "I am this body." Similarly, if a man thinks that "I am this body," he is no better than the dog because he has no realization of the self. Therefore the Vedic literature says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Actually we are standing on a false platform, understanding this body as the self, and in relationship with the body we are considering, "This country is my country. This man is my family man" or "my national man." So all these bodily concepts of life is based on ignorance, because we do not know soul. Actually the human life is meant for being educated that he is not this body; *he is soul. That is the Vedānta*-sūtra philosophy, to inquire about the spirit soul. That is our main business. Unfortunately... We are traveling all over the world. There is no institution, no school, no college, no university where this education is given, that "What I am? Am I this body, or I am something else? No. I am something else."



*So this education can be given through this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. On the basis of Śrī Bhagavad*-gītā, everything is explained very vividly. The soul is eternal. The soul is transferred from one gross body to another gross body, just like we change our apartment from one apartment to another. But I exist. If I vacate one apartment and I go to another apartment, it does not mean I am finished. I may leave the apartment. Similarly, if we are leaving this body and we are going to another body, that means I am not finished. I am existing. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Na hanyate: "The soul is never annihilated even after the destruction of this body." Therefore the question is that "If I am eternal, why I am put into this condition of changing, of transmigrating from one body to another? Is there any possibility of not changing the body, to keep eternality?" Yes. That is possible. Actually we are, as spirit soul, the part and parcel of God. So God is eternal, God is blissful, God is in full knowledge, so we, being part and parcel of God, we have got the same quality.

Man: That's a lot of bullshit. How do you explain your Rolls Royce, Dickey?



Prabhupāda: What is that? (big commotion in the audience) What is this? This is not good.



Man (1): Where's your love?



Man (2): Where's your gestapo?



Man (3): Fascists.



Man (1): Where's your love, I want to know. I want to know.



*Prabhupāda: [break] ...servants of God. We have come to serve God, His purpose. God is very kind upon every one of us. He comes Himself. He comes. He sends His son. He sends His devotee to reclaim. As I was explaining that in the material condition of life we have been changing from one body to another, this is not very good condition of life. Nobody wants to die, but he is forced to die. Nobody wants to take birth, but he is forced to take birth. Nobody wants to become old man, but he becomes old man. And nobody wants to become diseased, but he is forced to take some disease. This is our condition. Now this human form of body is a chance to understand what is our real inconvenience-birth, death, old age, and disease-and to think of whether there is any way out of this entanglement of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are educating people how to get out of the clutches of illusion that continually, one after another, we have to take birth. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. Real problem is this. So if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness*-that means if we understand, "What is God? What I am? What is our relationship? What is the ultimate goal of our life?" If these things we understand, then we can get out of the clutches of illusion, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, sum and substance. And to realize this, the method is very simple-chant the holy name of God. We are chanting the holy name of God: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So our only request is that you have got this human form of body-don't misuse it. Don't waste it like animals simply by eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. You have got another business. A human being has got extra intelligence. That extra intelligence than the animal is meant for realizing himself, not to live like cats and dog. That is not human form of life.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educational movement. It is not a religious sentiment; it is a science. And as we have got our books also. You have seen. There is demonstration of the book. We have got already twenty books of four hundred pages each, and we are going on, writing more books. Everything will be finished in eighty books. So if you want to know through science and philosophy, we have got our books. You can read. And even if you read the complete set, it will take your whole life to finish it. But if you cannot read or if you do not want to waste your time by such reading... It is not wasting; it is actually utilizing. But if you think so, then our request is that you simply chant the holy name of God.

*Man (1): Have you got books on the use of flick knives, like your brother*-in-law's there? Have a look. Declare yourself, mate.



Madhudviṣa: Sir, listen, we'll have questions and answers in just a minute if you'd like to be patient.



Man (1): Knives...



Madhudviṣa: If you'd like to be patient for a second, we'll have questions and answers and we can ask about the philosophy that we're talking about. (more yelling from audience) The people that want to listen in an orderly fashion are waiting to hear the meeting continue, and those who want to ask questions can please have respect for them and let us continue with the lecture, and then we'll have questions and answers afterwards.



Prabhupāda: What is this?



Madhudviṣa: They are simply talking about violence.



Prabhupāda: They are not prepared to hear. So let them question and answer.



Madhudviṣa: So our spiritual...



Prabhupāda: You can answer.



Madhudviṣa: Our spiritual master has traveled about ten thousand miles to come and speak to you. We did have... We've not come here to bribe anyone to come and listen to him. We have rented this hall. We have rented this hall here and we have invited people cordially to come and listen as representatives of the intelligentsia of Australia. Now if the intelligentsia of Australia cannot sit for half an hour and listen to a gentleman speak about love of God, it does not speak very well for you. We are simply not asking for disturbance. We are not asking for violence. We will meet violence with violence. We are not artificially pacifists. We are asking you to listen like gentlemen. We have come here in good will. We have come here not to cause any disturbance. So we ask you please to have that much respect for our spiritual master. Now at this time, if there is any question about Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy... Not about fighting. We can go on the street and fight. We can solve everything out there. We have come here to speak about spiritual matters. If you want to hear about spiritual matters, let's speak together like brothers and sisters. Let's not cause a disturbance. I have an ego; you have an ego. If you do something to flip off my ego, I may get mad. If I do something to flip out your ego, you get mad. So we'll go out into the street and settle it like cats and dogs? No. We're not here at this university to act like that. We're supposed to have raised above that platform. So please, we ask you to present sober questions to our spiritual master. Yes, sir?



Young man (2): I'm a Christian. I follow Jesus. What is your spiritual master in relation to Jesus, and do you see Jesus as just another prophet like...



Madhudviṣa: The question was, this man is a follower of Lord Jesus Christ, and he would like to know what our opinion is of Jesus Christ.



Prabhupāda: We respect Jesus Christ as you do. Because he is the representative of God, son of God, and we are also speaking of God, so we respect him with our greatest veneration.



*Young man (2): So you're comparing Kṛṣṇa, Buddha, Muhammad to Jesus as the same, and Guru Maharaj*-ji too, another Jesus. You're saying that.



Prabhupāda: No. I am not Jesus. I am servant of Jesus.



Young man (2): You're a son of Jesus.



Prabhupāda: Yes. I am servant of Jesus.



Young man (2): What does that mean?



Prabhupāda: I don't say I am Jesus.



Young man (2): Do you have the powers of Jesus? Can you say to a person, "Rise up and walk," when they're paralyzed?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Madhudviṣa: He wants to know if you have the powers of Jesus.



Prabhupāda: Eh? No, I have no power of Jesus.



Man: Well, I've got the power of Jesus. (laughter) Cause I'm a Christian.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are Christian, we are Krishnian*-practically the same thing. (laughter and applause)



Man: And one other question.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Man: I believe Jesus is coming back and not Kṛṣṇa. And what are you guys going to do when you see Jesus? (laughter)



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Madhudviṣa: Jesus. He believe Jesus is going to come back again.



Prabhupāda: Well, he is coming, welcome. We shall welcome. It is very good news that Jesus is coming.



Man: Jesus had no reputation. He wore sandals and he was crucified between two thieves...



Young man: He didn't carry flick knives... Hare Kṛṣṇas.



Young man (2): And your spirituality is in a Rolls Royce on a padded seat, and you're all into money, you Kṛṣṇas. You want money. You rip off people in the streets.



Prabhupāda: No. I don't want money.



Man: You said "Violence with violence." When you said "Violence with violence," that's what you believe. Jesus turned the other cheek, and he expects his followers to. (applause) [break]



*Prabhupāda: Yes, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a sentimental religious system. It is science and philosophy. The attempt is to awaken God consciousness. God is neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is God. There may be angles of vision to approach God, but God is one. Therefore our attempt is that you become God conscious. Don't be limited by Christianism or Hinduism or Muhammadanism. So our formula is explained in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. We have got the copies there. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: [SB 1.2.6] "That is first-class religious system by which the followers become a lover of God." This is the, our formula. Either you go through Christianism or Hinduism or Muslimism. If you understand what is God and if you know what is your relationship with God*-in this way your goal of life how to learn to love God, that is achieved-then it doesn't matter through which religion you achieve that perfection. But if you can achieve that perfection, that system is perfect. This is our formula.



Madhudviṣa: I think part of the question was this. One other man who comes from the East, Krishnamurti, he stresses that when you are speaking in the Western world, you should speak and present yourself as a Westerner, not as an Indian or not as you would speak in India. Instead of sitting on the raised dais, Vyāsāsana, and dressing in robes of a monk, Krishnamurti would say, "Dress in Western clothes and sit on a chair." The question was, "What is our opinion of this?"



*Prabhupāda: Actually a God conscious person is neither Westerner nor Easterner. So anywhere he goes, the devotees, as they receive him, they accept. These devotees, they have arranged the raised seat, so we have accepted this raised seat. If they wanted to sit down on the floor, I would have gladly accepted. I have no objection, this or that. But as the devotees receive and they give honor, that is good for them, because actually we should honor the Supreme Lord, God, and His representative. Nowadays it is different. Students and people are learning not to honor. But that is not actually the system. According to Vedic system, the representative of God must be honored as God. Yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādaḥ **. Just like in India we had British rule. The governor general, he was viceroy. So he was given honor, as much honor we used to give to the king. So that is the etiquette. That is the system. It is not that the honor given to the viceroy exactly like to the king, he becomes a king. No. He is servant of God. But it is the duty of the citizen to honor the representative of the king as king. That is etiquette. That is our Vedic system.



Madhudviṣa: Yes.



Woman: How do you explain the fact that Jesus said that "I am the way, the truth, and the light," and that "No man comes to the father but by me"?



Prabhupāda: What is that? Hm?



Madhudviṣa: She's asking how can we explain that Jesus said he is the only way?



Prabhupāda: Yes, he is the only way. We also admit. Because he is the representative of God, so if you want to approach God, you must approach through His representative. That is His version. "I am the only representative of God," then you have to reach God through him, that is fact.



Madhudviṣa: Another question? Yes, sir?



Man (3): Do you consider your movement the major form of enlightenment emanating from the United States today? (laughter) What order of priority had your movement in the White House psychological warfare department? (laughter) Will you also be coming on to our July 4th demonstration again this year to try and fuck it up and divert people away from taking up real political issues concerned with Australia?



*Madhudviṣa: All right, we can answer you one point at a time. (to Prabhupāda:) I can answer them for you if you like. Our movement is not coming from the United States. If you have some paranoiac stigma about anything and everything coming from the United States, well, that's your hang*-up, not mine. (applause) Second of all, our spiritual master, he came to the United States to start this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because he got a free ticket on a boat to go there. Because it was the mercy of this one lady who gave him this free ticket on a boat. He came to America on the orders of his spiritual master. This is the reason he came to America to start Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you had sent him a free ticket, he probably would have come to Australia first. He was a monk. He was a monk, a penniless monk in India, and he was trying to follow the orders of his spiritual teacher by spreading love of God. He was not trying to start any kind of a political movement. Actually, he is trying to start a revolution in consciousness. I think that you are also interested in revolution. We are also interested in revolution also. But we are interested in the revolution which will help people to feel peace themselves, whether they're Communists or Marxists or Leninists or whatever "ist" you like. We're trying to help people feel happy whether they're in the city or whether they're in the country or whether they're under any... (people yelling) This is what we're trying to do. So we are also revolutionaries. We are also revolutionaries. And actually we request you to cooperate with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so that actually we can change the consciousness of the world, not just change from one political system to another political system. That's been going on since time immemorial, and we see there's no solution because people are changing their politics; they're not changing their consciousness. They're not changing their consciousness. They're not changing themselves inside. They're just changing their "ism" from Communism to Capitalism, and from Capitalism back to something else "ism." We're asking people to try to get a little bit beyond that superficial political system and find out what actually motivates each and every one of us. That is God consciousness, or love of God. That love of God is much more powerful than any temporary political system. (many people yelling)



Man: Hey, listen. If you're that bloody good, why'd you beat up my mate?



Men: Yeah!



Man: You're bloody Nazis from bloody Germany. (yelling)



Man: Hitler was a revolutionary too.



Madhudviṣa: Are there are any questions, more questions about the philosophy?



Young man: Because Jesus loves me, so I love you, brother. Because I love you I'd like to know where is your book that you say has God's words... How come my God says in this book, which my God doesn't seem to say... How come my God, in His book, which can be proved by many methods, that love... God too is talking about love. Man, he loves everybody... (end)





740818SP.VRN

Ceremony Speech Excerpt

-

Vṛndāvana, August 18, 1974



*Prabhupāda: ...Vedic literature that kṣatraṁ dvijatvaṁ ca parasparārtham. They are meant for cooperation. So secular state does not mean that we should be neglectful of the spiritual progress of life. The government should be very careful that in the name of secularism people are going to, astray. No. So this is the movement that kṣatraṁ dvijatvaṁ ca parasparārtham. We are trying to cooperate with the political power, and we are trying to impart spiritual instruction. This is our attempt. And another thing is that according to our Vedic literature, there cannot be different religions. It is not possible. Because God is one. God cannot be two. "This is Hindu God, this is Muslim God," or "This is Christian God..." No. God is one. And dharma means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "The law which is given by God, that is dharma." This is the simple definition of dharma. And at the end of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the ultimate religion. One has to surrender to the Supreme Lord. This is religion.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yena ātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



If we actually want peace, samprasīdati, then we must learn how to surrender to the Supreme Lord. It doesn't matter through which process. Either by Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion, it doesn't matter. We want to see that everyone is becoming a perfect lover of God. This is our definition of God. It may be, due to circumstantial changes in the country, the Muslim religion may be little different from Hindu religion so far the ritualistic ceremonies are concerned, but actually we want to see whether you have advanced in the matter of loving God. Not that "Superficially I am very advanced in religion, but I do not know how to love." This is the test. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is the test. A devotee wants to see that everyone is happy. It doesn't matter whether he is a Hindu or a Muslim or a Christian. It doesn't matter. We want to see that everyone is happy.



This process we are following, and because we are sincerely following, people are accepting, and gradually we are advancing. Within the five or six years, we have written these books, about twenty books, four hundred pages, and we are selling very nicely these books. Not only to the common man, but also to the learned scholars, big, big scholars in the universities... (end)



750302LE.ATL

Sunday Feast Lecture

-

Atlanta, March 2, 1975



Prabhupāda: When they first met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they offered this prayer:



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tvise namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*These ministers were, by caste, brāhmaṇa, but because they accepted the service in Muhammadan government, they were rejected from the brāhmaṇa society. And they also became like Muhammadans. They changed their names to Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa. Practically they became Muhammadan. And in those days many other Muhammadans, they also became this follower of Caitanya cult, especially Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was born in Muhammadan family. These Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were born in high*-class brāhmaṇa family, but on account of their service in the Muhammadan government they were rejected from the brāhmaṇa society. That is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special mercy, that this Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who was actually born in Muhammadan family, he was made nāmācārya. We offer our respect, "Nāmācārya Śrīla Haridāsa Ṭhākura." And we offer our respect to Sanātana Gosvāmī, vande rūpa-sanātanau...



*Devotee: Raghu*-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau.



*Prabhupāda: Raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult is special cult. And He wanted to preach not only in India but all over the world. We have several times discussed this point, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma, this cult, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult. And what is that cult? Kṛṣṇa-prema, to love Kṛṣṇa, or God. God... In many religions they have got different names of God. And in Vedic scripture there are many demigods and incarnation of God. But Kṛṣṇa is the original name of God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There is list of incarnations, and in the conclusion the śāstra says, "In this long list there are many names, but the name 'Kṛṣṇa' is particularly to be noted, that He is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead." "God" means He is not like us. He can expand Himself. Even the yogis, some of the yogis, not these ordinary third-class yogis, but those who have attained yogic perfection, they can expand the body in at least up to eight. The yogis can do that. There are instances. So if an ordinary yogi can do that, just imagine how much potential there is of the Supreme Lord. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "My dear Arjuna, the Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, in every one living being's heart." You just imagine how many living entities are there. They cannot be counted. Jīva-bhago sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantaya kalpate. But there are many million, trillions. Even million, trillions is insufficient. There is no counting. There are so many living entities, and they are all part and parcel of God. Just like the sunshine and sun globe and the sun-god. The sun-god is within the sun globe, and the inhabitants of the sun globe, they are all very glowing, luminous. On account of their bodily glowing, the whole sun planet is glowing. On account of the sun planet glowing, the sunshine, which is reaching us from 93,000,000's of miles*-we feel the heat and the light. This is an ordinary material thing. So just imagine what is the potential of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*So we cannot imagine what is the potential power, energy of the Supreme Person, just like we cannot estimate what is the temperature of the sun globe, sun-god. It is in our front. We have got aeroplanes. We can go there. But before going there we will be finished, the temperature is so high. Everyone knows it. So if the ordinary sun*-god or sun globe is such high temperature, how much higher temperature is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, His potency, His power. We say God is almighty, all-powerful, but we have no idea what is meant by "all-powerful." We think that all-powerful means "I am so much powerful. He may be ten times powerful than me." Or somebody says, "twenty times." "All right, let us compromise. Fifty times." (laughter) This kind of speculation is like the frog's speculation within the well. There is a frog within the well, and one of his friends came to him, "My dear friend, I have seen a vast mass of water, Atlantic Ocean." "What is that Atlantic Ocean?" "It is vast." "How much? Maybe ten times more than this? Or twenty times? Come on." (laughter) "No, no. It is very, very vast." So these rascal speculation of God is like that the speculation of the frog about Atlantic Ocean. These mundane philosopher, scientists, they are thinking of God in that way, the Dr. Frog's philosophy. The Dr. Frog's philosophy will not help you to understand what is God.

So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching was to distribute love of God. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Because this human life is specially meant for understanding what is God and loving Him. That's all. This is the only business. The cats and dogs or other lower animals, if you preach to them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not possible. They will not understand. But human being... Just like our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being spread all over the world, and you can see here also in your country, in America, in Europe, they are all understanding. That is the special advantage of human life. One Christian priest in Boston, he was astonished by seeing our devotees. He issued one leaflet that "These boys are our boys, and before this movement they did not care to see us or come to the church, and now they are mad after God." This is the certificate of a Christian priest. And actually you can see. These boys... I am poor Indian. I came with forty rupees. And I have not bribed them; *neither I have got that money. (laughter) But how they are mad after God. It is practical. Now you bribe them and take away*-they will not go. They will not go. Many fathers, mothers came to induce them to take home, but they are not going. So what is the intoxication? This is the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This intoxication is: they have given up all intoxication; *they are now intoxicated with Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Yes. One Draft Board officer came to see in our camp: "So what is the facility that these boys have joined Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, whether it is very easier than the Draft Board?" But when he enquired he saw that these boys and girls are prohibited illicit sex, intoxication, meat*-eating and gambling. He thought that it is harder than the Draft Board. Here, the Draft Board, they do not make any condition, but here are so many condition which is very, very difficult to follow. So this is called Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy-practical.

*So every human being should accept this mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and that is the purport of the verse Rūpa Gosvāmī first offered to Lord Caitanya, that namo mahā*-vadānyāya: "You are the most munificent incarnation." Why? Now, "You are distributing Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Godhead. People do not know what is God, and You are distributing love of Godhead." One cannot love anybody unless he knows the other party very well or very intimate dealings. Then there is question of love. Love, there is no question of love. If I do not know you, you do not know me, when we live ten thousand miles away, there is no question of love. Love means when there is intimacy. So to understand God is very difficult. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*He, God said, Kṛṣṇa said, that "Out of many millions of person, one is interested to make his life success." This is not success, that "I can eat whatever I like. There is no checking. And I have got very nice car, and I have got very nice apartment. And I have got nice bank balance. So now life is, my, perfect." This is not perfection, because we are under the grip of the laws of material nature. Material nature is controlling. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. How the material nature is controlling? She has got machine, three modes of material nature. So kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. They are contacting either of these three modes of material nature and thus being infected. We know that if we infect some disease knowingly or unknowingly-generally we infect unknowingly-later on that disease becomes developed. This is law of nature. Not that you do not know when you infected that particular disease... That is no excuse. You have infected yourself with this kind of disease; *you must suffer. This is knowledge. Similarly, there are three kinds of infection, modes of material nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. So ignorance is no excuse. If in the law court you say, "My lord, I did not know that by stealing one is punished," that, the magistrate or the judge, will not excuse you. The law, even this material law, is so strict, and you can imagine how much strict are stringent laws of the nature. So this is the material life, that knowingly or unknowingly we are infecting a particular type of modes of material nature, and our next body is being created. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Sad-asad life, there are different varieties of life, 8,400,000 varieties of forms. So why there are different forms of life, different standard of life? Why? The answer is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāraṇam, the reason, is guṇa-saṅgaḥ, his particular infection with a particular quality of material nature. This is going on perpetually. "Perpetually" means we do not know when this process of life began and when it will be ended; *therefore it is perpetual. So our this privilege, to possess a human form of life, is great advantage in this sense, that we can study all these things*-what is the living entity, how he is being infected and how he is taking different types of bodies, and account of the body, the standard of life, nice or bad, is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, in the very beginning of His teaching of the Bhagavad-gītā, He is trying to impress that "I am not this body, or we are not this body. I am the owner or occupier of the body." This is the first instruction.



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is not on the bodily platform. It is on the spiritual platform. That He explained when He was talking with Sanātana Gosvāmī, that what is the identity of this living entity. Or he said, "What is my identity? Actually people address me as very learned man." He was very learned man. He was minister and was a brāhmaṇa. Naturally in those days he knew Sanskrit very well and Urdu, because Muhammadan kingdom, the Urdu language was state language just like during British period the state language was English. So he was quite conversant with these two languages, Urdu, Parsi, and Sanskrit. So he first of all submitted to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "My dear Lord, people address me as panditji." The brāhmaṇas are generally addressed still in India as panditji, means learned. Because brāhmaṇa means learned. A brāhmaṇa cannot be mūrkhaji. That is not possible. Brāhmaṇa means brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. One who knows the Absolute Truth, he becomes brāhmaṇa; *therefore he is addressed as panditji. So Sanātana Gosvāmī submitted that "These ordinary people address me as very learned man, panditji. But I know my position. I do not know myself, what I am. This is my position." Grāmya-vyavahāre kaha ei paṇḍita satya kori māni: "These fools calls me as paṇḍita, and I also think that I am paṇḍita, but actually I do not know what I am." Just see. This is the position. You ask all big, big doctors, scientists, philosophers, and ask him what you are. He will say, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," that's all. Bodily. This is going on. And he is fool number one, and he is passing on as the great scientist, great philosopher. One who does not know himself, what is the value of his learning? One must know his own identity. So everyone is identifying with this body-"I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," "I am Englishman"*-and fighting is going on. Why fighting is going on? The living entity is part and parcel of God. He is spiritual spark. He is covered by this material body. Just like we are all human beings. Now we are covered by different dresses. That does not mean we are different. We are one as human being, as inhabitants of this earth, but on account of this dress, I am thinking you are my enemy, you are thinking I am your enemy. So Bhāgavata conclusion is,

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Anyone who is identifying himself with this body and the land of his bodily growing there in the country, bhauma ijya*-dhīḥ... Everyone is thinking, "God is not worshipable. In this land I have taken my birth. This land is my worshipable"-nationalism or this "ism" or that "ism." But he never thinks that "How long I shall be allowed to occupy this body and to occupy this land?" This is called ignorance.



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is, the starting point is, the spirit soul. And automatically, unless... In the Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord said the sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up the so-called man-made duties or occupation or dharma. You just surrender unto Me." So actually this is dharma, or religion, to surrender to God. God is one. He is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. God is one. If there is another God, then there is competition. God cannot be two. God is one. Eko brahma dvitīya nasti. That is the Vedic injunction. So God is one. So either you become Hindu or Muslim, the God is one. This is to be understood. So the science of God, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You try to understand scientifically what is meant by God, what is meant by religion. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. He begins His teaching on this principle, that every living being is eternal servant of God. That's all. And this is religion. Religion does not mean stamping in different way. Religion means to know God the great and we are subordinate, maintained by God. This is religion. If anyone knows these two things only*-God is great, and we are subordinate; *our duty is to abide by the orders of God*-that is religion. So unity can be established on the spiritual platform. Unity cannot be established on this bodily platform just like the United Nations trying to unite the nation, but every year a flag is increasing. We have seen in New York. So this kind of unity will never be successful. The United Nations established at least how many years ago? So what they have done? They could not do that. Neither can do anything. Before that, there was another establishment, League of Nations. They are trying to unite the nations not to fight with one another. But because they are contemplating all these nonsense on the bodily platform, it is not possible. It is not possible. If you want to be united, then you have to be united on the spiritual platform. And what is that spiritual platform? The spiritual platform is to understand thoroughly that "God is great, and we are subordinate. God is maintaining us. All the property anywhere, that belongs to God, and we can use the father's property as much as I require, not to take more and stock it. No." The birds, beasts, they are very free. If you put here one bag of rice or any foodstuff, the birds will come, but they will eat only a few grains and go away. And if you put here, say, one thousand bags of wheat and you declare that anyone can take it, there will be fight. There will be fight. Everyone will try to take more. Everyone will try to take more. This is human civilization. The birds will peacefully take few grains and go away. But if you invite the human being, their culture is so-"Oh, I have got so much wheat. Let me take more and stock it for tomorrow or day after tomorrow or for my son, for my grandson, for my great-grandson." (laughter) This foolishness is going on on account of lack of spiritual consciousness.

*Spiritual consciousness is, it is stated in the Vedas, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: [Īśo mantra 1] "Everything belongs to God." The food belongs to God, the mine belongs to God, the ocean belongs to God, the land belongs to God, the air belongs to God, and whatever we find here... This is a combination of these five elements: earth, air, water, fire. That's all. So everything belongs to God. We also belong to God. So we should feel obliged to God that He has given so much for our maintenance. [break] ...fruits, flowers, vegetables, land, ocean, mine, jewels. So we can use it as much as we require. We cannot collect it and keep it in stock for my future son, grandson, this son, that son. No. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is actually perfect communism. The Communists are thinking in terms of the human being, and that also within the state, but a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he is thinking in terms of all living beings. Vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, śuni caiva śva-pāke ca [Bg. 5.18]. In the Bhāgavata it is stated that a householder, before taking his lunch, he should invite on the street, "Sir, if anyone is still hungry, please come at my place. There is still food. You can take it." And he should see that in the household even the lizard he is not hungry. Even there is a snake, he is not hungry. This is Vedic principle, God consciousness, that "Somehow or other, one animal has become lizard. Maybe he is hungry. So at my house he is. Why he should remain hungry? Give him some food." Nobody likes snake, but in the śāstra it is said, "Even there is a snake, you should see that he is not hungry, he is given some food." So of course, it is very high idea, but it is the complete ideal of so-called Communism, real. It is not that nation... American nation, they are concerned with the human being only. Or any nation. Not American, everywhere. And nation means... The definition of "native" means one who has taken birth in that land. That is called native. So the cow is also native. So why this law, that for the benefit of the human being, the cow should be slaughtered? And he is giving milk; *he is working for you. What is this philosophy? In Christian religion it is clearly stated, "Thou shalt not kill." And most of the slaughterhouses are in the Christian countries. Why? This is all misunderstanding of spiritual life. Therefore... Just like the discussion went on with the Kazi and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There was no philosophy. He first asked him that "Cow is your mother. Bull is your father. Why you are killing father and mother? What is your religion? Is that very good philosophy, that you shall kill your father and mother and eat them?" This was the first question. According to Vedic civilization, cow is to be given all protection. The Hindus or followers of the Vedic religion, why they are interested to give protection to the cows, not to the..., not so much to the other animals? And Lord Christ is more liberal. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." He does not name any animal's name. Every animal. Every animal should be given protection. That is also the Vedic idea. Why these poor animals should be killed? By killing, killing, killing, you become sinful and entangled. Therefore now it has begun*-one is killing his own child.

So this is going on. So in this way we cannot be happy. We shall become more and more entangled in sinful resultant action. And we have to take different types of body. So perpetually it will go on. Therefore this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to awaken every man to God consciousness and just to stop his activities in sinful life, so that he will be purified and he will understand God. Without being purified, nobody can understand what is God. That is not possible.

*yeṣām anta*-gatāṁ tu pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



*And Kṛṣṇa said, God says, "One who is completely freed from sinful life, he can take to devotional service." So therefore we have prescribed four principles, regulative principles: No illicit sex. We don't say "No sex." No illicit sex. No meat*-eating. There are so many things, nice things, especially in your country, America, so many nice fruits, so many nice grains, milk. Why should you kill? We are not. We have got hundreds of centers. We are strictly following. And you have taken our prasādam feast. How delicious they are. So why they should kill? The argument is sometimes offered: "The vegetable has got life." Yes, we admit also. But our process is to take the prasādam. Prasādam means we offer foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa and after eating, whatever He left, we take that. This is our principle. We don't take directly. What is the meaning of this temple? We don't use anything directly unless it is offered to Kṛṣṇa. So the vegetable has got life, but Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. We have invited Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as our guest, and He has consented to come here. So we must offer foodstuff, what He wants, not that according to my whims. That is not etiquette. If some respectable guest comes to your house, you ask him, "What shall you eat, sir? What kind of food I can give you?" So whatever he orders, you have to supply. That is real receiving the guest. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Give Me food amongst these items-patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. That also with bhakti, not neglectfully. With great devotion, if somebody offers Me these things, then I can take." So Kṛṣṇa takes these, these patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ, grains, food grains, and milk and vegetables and fruits. So we prepare hundreds of items with these things. You can do that. And they are all delicious and full of vitamins. So why one should kill unnecessarily the poor animals and become vicious and sinful?



So this is Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching, that you live peacefully. Be gentleman. Realize God. Make your life happy in this world and the next world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. And He wanted to spread this cult in every town, every city, every village. So this group, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is just trying to serve Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And you also see how much beneficial it is. Caitanyera dayāra kathara karaha vicāra. You don't be blind, but try to consider it a little liberally without any, what is called, sophistry? Without any bias, prejudice. Don't be carried by prejudice. Try to understand the philosophy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and be happy.

Thank you very much.

Devotee: In the Bible they say that the animals don't have soul; therefore it's not the same as killing.



*Prabhupāda: I do not know whether it is said. [break] ...expert in calling Bible, but where it is said, he does not know. He is so expert in Bible (laughter) How do you know? Now, apart from Bible or any scripture, how do you find that the animal has no soul? How do you consider it? What is the symptom of having soul? That is very easy, but you do not know. When the soul is gone from the body, it does not move. And when the soul is there, it moves. This is the understanding of soul. So do you think the animal does not move? The animal has no blood? The animal has no bone? How do you say that animal has no soul? This is foolishness. The soul is there. Even one small ant, there is soul. Otherwise how it is moving? So long the soul is there, the dull material body is moving. And as soon as the soul is gone, you will cry, "My father has gone away." Why your father gone? It is lying there. Why do you say, "My father has gone away"? This is ignorance. We do not know what is soul. We see the body. So long I have seen the body of my father. Now the soul has gone. I am crying, "My father has gone away." But did you see your father? "Yes, that body." The body is there. Why you are crying? So it is very common sense affair to understand where there is soul. A big stone, a big mountain, it cannot move although it is so big. And a small ant is moving. Why? There is soul. So how can you say the animals have no soul? This is ignorance. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. The soul being within the body means it is changing the body from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, like that. And if the child is born dead-no more change of body. That is the proof that there is soul. Soul means the living force which is moving the body. That is soul. How you can say the animal has no soul? Everyone has soul. Even the grass has soul, because it is growing, changing body. [break] ...simple thing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Because all dirty things are within our heart. On account of dirty things we are thinking that "I have got soul, and the animal has no soul." This is due to dirtiness of the heart. So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, the heart will be cleansed. Just like a mirror with a dust, you cannot see, but if this dust is cleansed, then you can see your face very nicely. Similarly, because on account of material contamination our heart is unclean, we cannot see things as they are, but the chanting process will cleanse your heart, and then you will see everything in order. Then you will not say the animal has no soul.



Devotee: Prabhupāda, before this movement came here we were so caught up in sinful activities. How is it that we were so fortunate to be benedicted with this great Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?



Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to give you. Now He has come here. You take advantage of it. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is kind to everyone. He has no discrimination that this cult should be spread only in India or amongst the Hindus or amongst the brāhmaṇas. No. He wanted to spread this movement to all living being. Never mind. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. So now He has come. If you want, accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, "Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is sufficient. But if you want to know more, further, through philosophy, through science, we have got already thirty or fifty books. Read them. Everything is there. Either you accept directly, or if you want to accept through science, through philosophy, through knowledge, there are books. Both ways, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is ready to help you. Now you take advantage of it. And we are glad that you are taking advantage. Now some of you, they have already joined. And in the educational institution, universities, they are also very much appreciative of our literature. So gradually it will be appreciated. But the sooner you take advantage of it is better.



Guest: Śrīla Guru, I would like the name of the tenth avatāra of Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Hmm?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants the name of the tenth avatāra of Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: I think Kalki. Tenth avatāra is Kalki. He will appear in the district of Śambhalapur. His father's name will be Viṣṇu*-yaśā, and He will be dressed like a prince and cut all the heads of the demons.



Devotees: Jaya! Haribol! (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Because gradually we are so advancing that we shall remain only animal. So there is no need of preaching. Cut the head. Finish them.



Guest (2): What does the name Jehovah mean?



Prabhupāda: That you say. You say. I do not know. What is the meaning of Jehovah? I do not know. Who will say what is the meaning of? You do not know?



Guest (2): I think it's a name for God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So why? What is the... Give the word meaning, Jehovah. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's, the word meaning: all*-attractive. So God must be all-attractive; *otherwise how He can be God? If God is attractive for me only and not to others, then he is not God. God should be attractive... Just like God's knowledge. Kṛṣṇa is giving this Bhagavad*-gītā. It is attractive all over the world, among the scholars, among the religionists, public. Not that simply my Bhagavad-gītā is being read. There are many other editions of Bhagavad-gītā. It is widely read because the knowledge is so perfect. So knowledge is an attraction. Riches, wealth, that is attraction. If a man is very rich, just like in your country, Ford, Rockefeller, they are attractive. A man, if he is beautiful, if he is strong, if he is wise, they become attractive. So you will find in Kṛṣṇa all these attractive features. Therefore He is God.



Woman: In the Christian Bible it says that God created all of earth.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Woman: He created the waters, he created the animals, but He created the human being in His image, which was the same.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. That's nice.



Woman: Explain to me then why you say...



*Prabhupāda: Then the God is person. God created human beings after His own image*-that means He has also two hands, two legs, like us.



Woman: No.



Prabhupāda: Why not? You say. (laughter) You say, "God has created human being after His image." Therefore His image must be like you. Why do you say no?



Woman: Well, then that's controversy to the...



Prabhupāda: Why controversy? First of all let us settle this.



Woman: Controversy not to your religion, but to the other religions that say that we are...



Prabhupāda: Other religion... Why you are concerned with other religion? Talk of what God says in your Bible.



Woman: What it says in my Bible?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You are saying that God created human being after His image. Is it not?



Woman: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Then God, His image is like human being.



Woman: Not according to way, way back because...



Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but... (laughter) God has got His two hands and two legs, one head, like human being, but that hands and legs and head may not be exactly like us. But He has got the image.



Woman: I have never seen Him. I do not know.



Prabhupāda: Then why you are speaking? You do not know. Don't talk. (laughter) Then you learn. If you do not know, then you learn who knows. Don't talk.



Woman: I'll listen to you.



Prabhupāda: That is the defect of the modern civilization. One does not know, and he wants to teach. (laughter)



Woman: I want to teach only to understand.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. To understand the God is... We are worshiping the God's image. He has got the two hands, two legs, like us. But His hands and legs are not like our hands and legs. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi. God hand is so expansive, universal, that although He is in His kingdom, in His abode, when you offer something to God, He takes. He can expand His hand in that way. Not only one devotee but at the simultaneously many millions of devotees are offering Him and taking, He is taking. That is His hand. And my hand? Only three feet, that's all. So there is God's hand, but that hand is not like my hand. This is understanding. He can expand His hand millions and trillions of miles. That is His hand. That is explained in the Vedic literature. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. God is vigraha, is form, exactly like our form. But His form is sat cit ānanda. Sat means eternal, and cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda means bliss. So our body, this hand, this leg, this body, is not sac-cid-ānanda. It is not eternal; *it will be finished. But God's body will never be finished. That is the difference. He has got His body, and I have got my body. But this body will be finished at a certain date, but His body will remain eternally. That is the difference between God's body and my body. Sat and cit. His body or He Himself knows everything, past, present and future, but I do not know what is beyond this wall. Therefore my knowledge is always imperfect, and God's knowledge is perfect. This is sac, cit. And ānanda. You see in our temple is... God is in dancing always. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you will never see there is crying. No. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying in the company of Rādhārāṇī. This is blissfulness. And although we have got our wife, there are so many difficulties to maintain. That's it. He has got His body, but His body is different from our this body. Although apparently He has got two hands, two legs, but they are unlimitedly potential, full of bliss. That's a... God can expand. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: [Bg. 18.61] "The Lord is situated in everyone's heart." But we cannot do that. I cannot even know what you are feeling, pains and pleasure. But God He can know. Otherwise why we offer prayer to God? He knows. In this way you have to study what is God. Although apparently He has got two hands, two legs, but that hands and legs are not like ours. We have got our hands and legs. That is within this body. Just like your coat has got hand, but that hand is not real hand*-the real hand is within the coat-similarly, we have got also hands and legs, but that is within this material body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yau... [Bg. 2.13]. Within this body. We should not be concerned with your coat and shirt. We should be concerned with you. Similarly, we are now materially dressed. We should not be concerned with the dress. We should be concerned what is there within the dress. That is knowledge. That is knowledge. So it is a science, and the science is very nicely described in all scriptures, especially Bhagavad-gītā. So as a human being, we have got this privilege, to understand, to go to the right person to take the meaning. Meaning is very clear, but we create some mismeaning. That is another thing. Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." It is very clear and simple thing, but we make some interpretation, "This, that, this." Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Don't make the meaning perverted. Take it as it is. Then you become perfect. "Thou shalt not kill"-if you take this as it is, then you become perfect. But if you add your own meaning and go on killing and still you become a Christian, that is your business.



Devotee (2): If one is fortunate enough to revive his natural position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling down again? Like, if an entity is fortunate enough to revive his natural constitutional position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling...



Prabhupāda: How your Nixon is dragged down? How your President Nixon is dragged down? He was in the exalted post, and why he was dragged down?



Devotee (3): They dragged him down.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He was forced to come down. Why?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He broke the rules.



*Prabhupāda: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. If you are not perfect, then you will be dragged down. Or if you think imperfectly... The formula is that in the spiritual world everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord. There is no other conception as in this material world everyone is engaged to serve his senses*-he likes something, and he is engaged for that purpose. That service is there, but it is service to himself, his senses. But in the spiritual world there is no such thing as giving service to the senses. Simply giving service to the Lord. That is spiritual world. So as soon as you think that "Why shall I give service to Kṛṣṇa? Why not become independent?" you fall down immediately. So there is potency of thinking like that.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



As soon as one forgets the service of the Lord and he wants to become himself Lord, immediately māyā will capture. This māyā means this material world.



Woman: In the Christian Bible it says that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and you can only get to God through him.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Woman: No. What is...? Do...?



Prabhupāda: Yes. We admit that. He is the perfect son, and if you take shelter of the lotus feet of the perfect son, you go to back to home, back to Godhead. That's a fact.



Woman: Is that true of Christ or...



Prabhupāda: Yes. As he advises. Just like he says, "Thou shalt not kill." But if you kill, at the same time take shelter of Christ, what is the meaning? First of all you try to follow him; *then you can go through him. But you don't care for him*-what is the meaning of go through him?



Woman: Believe in him.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Believe in strongly.



Woman: Believe that he is the son of God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Believe or not believe, he is son. And if you are fortunate, you follow his path and you become perfect. You believe or not believe, God is there. Similarly, you believe or not believe, God's son is there, God's devotee is there, everyone is there. God is not alone. Just like if you say, "Now here the king is coming," "the king is coming" means he is coming with his ministers, his commander*-in-chief, his secretaries and so many, hundreds of men, soldiers... Similarly, when we speak of God, God is not alone. He has got His sons, He has got His friends, He has got His father, He has got His mother, He has got His beloved, everything. That is God. Yes?



Guest (4): Who was Meher Baba?



Prabhupāda: Hmm? I do not know. (laughter) There are so many bogus Babas. I do not know. (laughter) What is the use of knowing Meher Baba? If I know Kṛṣṇa, that is sufficient. That's all. Why shall I go to know this and that? That's all right. So is there a question...? All right, what is that question?



Devotee (4): Many people say, "No one can become perfect." How can we help them understand that there is...?



Prabhupāda: Yes. No one is a perfect. Therefore you should take lessons from the perfect. That's all. Then you become perfect. Otherwise why there are instructions just like Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill"? That means "You are imperfect; therefore you are killing. Take my instruction. Don't do it. You become perfect." That's all. We are all imperfect. We have to take lesson from the perfect. Then we become perfect. Yes?



Nirantara: Prabhupāda, what pleases you the most?



Prabhupāda: If you love Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Devotee (5): Prabhupāda, I would like to know if the Supersoul is, and the spirit soul, are they the same in the heart of...



Prabhupāda: Same is quality. But the individual soul is not exactly like the Supersoul. The Supersoul is within you and within me, within everywhere. But I, individual soul, I am only within me. You are within you. That is the difference. I cannot feel your pains and pleasure; *neither you can feel my pains and pleasure. Therefore we are individual. But Supersoul, because He is in everyone's heart, He knows what is going on in everyone's body. That is Supersoul. Therefore He is called Supersoul. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Supersoul, He is God. He can expand Himself in millions and millions of places. But I cannot do that; you cannot do that.



Devotee (5): Prabhupāda, if our body should meet death while engaged in your service, will our transmigration be protected in the ultimate...?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says if our body should meet death while performing devotional service, will we be protected in transmigrating?



*Prabhupāda: There are two kinds of bodies: the gross body and the subtle body. The gross body is a material combination of earth, water, air, fire, ether, and the subtle body is combination of mind, intelligence and ego. So this gross body and subtle body, within that, there is the spirit soul. So that is eternal. And this gross body and subtle body is changing according to the change of the situation. So when you remain in your spiritual body, that is eternal. Therefore to keep in spiritual body is to accept devotional service. Then you are beyond this material gross body and subtle body. You remain in your spiritual body. And if you give up this body at the time of death, means giving up this body, then in spiritual body you go to back to home, back to Godhead. So in order to keep yourself in spiritual body you should always be engaged in devotional service, and that is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



Then you become Brahman or spirit soul. Yes?



*Devotee (6): In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it states that to understand Kṛṣṇa and to improve our relationship with Him we must understand the spiritual master. What is the best way to understand him?



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that it states in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta that to understand Kṛṣṇa the best way is to understand the spiritual master. What is the best way to do that?



Prabhupāda: If you want to learn something, so you must learn from a person who knows that something. The spiritual master's business is that he knows Kṛṣṇa well. So you try to understand Kṛṣṇa through him. This is the idea. Yes?



Devotee (7): Śrīla Prabhupāda, the material scientists... Unfortunately, many people have put their faith in the material scientists today. [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...go to moon, what benefit you derive? You will die also. So anywhere you go within this material world, birth, death, old age and disease will follow. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,



*ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān

punar āvartinaḥ arjuna

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramam



Instead of going to moon planet, why not engage your energy for going to back to home, back to Godhead, wherefrom you will not come back again? Yes?



*Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Sikh*-dharma they say to chant the holy names of God, and so far I haven't encountered the name "Kṛṣṇa" in the scriptures. I have encountered "Govinda," "Mukunda," "Rāma" and..., but the main name that is chanted is Viduḥ. And I was wondering if you could comment on..., on the Sikh-dharma.



Prabhupāda: It is very good. It is very good. Guru Nanak, he chanted the name, holy name of Rāma, the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda. So if we follow Guru Nanak, we are fortunate. Anyone who presents a science of God, it doesn't matter whether he is this man or that man; he is our guru. Yes?



Girl: Why is it all right to kill any plants? How are they different from animals?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She is asking, "What is the difference between killing a plant and eating it and killing an animal and eating it?"



*Prabhupāda: The same fault. Either you kill animal or plant, the same sin is there just like if you kill an uncivilized and if you kill a big man, the punishment is the same, hanging. You cannot say that "I have killed one uncivilized man." No. That you cannot do. Similarly, you cannot kill even plant. But we have to live. Therefore we can kill plant under the order of the Supreme. Just like I have already explained. Kṛṣṇa said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Patraṁ means plant. So Kṛṣṇa wants it. So for Kṛṣṇa's sake we can do that. Just like Arjuna did. Arjuna did not like to kill his brothers, but Kṛṣṇa said that "This is My desire." "All right, I shall kill." This is Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti. When Kṛṣṇa says, we can do everything, not for our personal self. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. That another crude example: just like a soldier. When he is fighting by the order of the state, he is getting gold medal and killing. His business is killing. But the same man, when he comes home, if he kills one person, then he is hanged. Why? He could say that "My business is killing. I am soldier. I have killed this man." "No. This is for your account. On the battlefield you killed for the state's account; *therefore you were eulogized. You were given reward." Similarly, we can kill only on the order of the Supreme. Otherwise we cannot kill even a plant. Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Yajña means for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, whatever you do, you are not implicated with sinful activities. And bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13]. And a person who is doing on his own capacity, he is simply acquiring sinful resultant action. So the conclusion is: even a plant you cannot kill, what to speak of bigger animals. If one thinks that "I am killing only plants; *therefore I am very pious, vegetarian," no. There is no question of vegetarian, nonvegetarian. They are equally sinful. Only those who are taking prasādam, they are free from sinful activities. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva*-kilbiṣaiḥ. All right, thank you... Again? More questions? (laughter) All right, one more question.



Devotee (8): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we're performing devotional service and an insect is in the way, like if you're painting the walls and you find this ant and you must paint this wall to please the spiritual master, what is the attitude?



Prabhupāda: I have already said. You cannot kill even an ant without permission. So if you want to kill, you should take permission of higher authorities. (end)





750329LE.MAY

Lecture on Manipur Dancing

-

Māyāpur, March 29, 1975



Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

*cakṣur*-unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*śrī*-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*he kṛṣṇa karuṇā*-sindho

*dīna*-bandho jagat-pate

*gopeśa gopīkā*-kānta

*rādhā*-kānta namo 'stu te



[O my dear Kṛṣṇa, ocean of mercy, You are the friend of the distressed and the source of creation. You are the master of the cowherdmen and the lover of the gopīs, especially Rādhārāṇī. I offer my respectful obeisances unto You.]



*Kṛṣṇa is gopīka*-kānta. Rādhā-kānta. That is Kṛṣṇa's real identification. He is gopīka-kānta, and He is Rādhā-kānta. This relationship with Kṛṣṇa and gopīs, that is the highest perfectional realization of the Absolute Truth.



*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*Kṛṣṇa's real identification means ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. He is ānanda, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and His expansion of ānanda are these gopīs, ānanda-cinmaya. But that is not this material thing. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, that mellow, that taste, that humor, that is completely spiritual. We should not misunderstand this līlā, or pastimes of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, that material lusty affairs. Then we'll be misled. It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ ca viṣṇoḥ. The activities of the Vraja-vadhu, the damsels of Vṛndāvana, vikrīḍitam, activities, vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ ca viṣṇoḥ śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ, bhaktiṁ parāṁ pratilabhya hṛd-roga-kāma apahinoti.



*Our material existence is due to our lusty desires in the heart. That is hṛd*-rogam. That is our heart disease. And we are suffering in this material world for this heart disease life after life. People have lost their intelligence that they cannot understand that there is life after death. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. They have become so fools and rascals that they do not understand this simple truth as it is said in the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. We are seeking after this pleasure of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs or with the cowherds boys. Kṛṣṇa has got many associates, and the topmost associates are the gopīs. So we are seeking after that happiness, but we are being misled by the lusty desires. So I am very glad to see the dance, Manipuri dance, but it should be properly utilized. It should not be utilized as lusty dance. It is ānanda-cinmaya, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], His expansion.

*So people are hankering after happiness because he's part and parcel of sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha, Kṛṣṇa. So naturally, we are seeking the same spiritual happiness, but we are being misled by māyā. That we should be very much cautious under the guidance of proper spiritual master. And this morning we're discussing this verse from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahladini-śaktir asmat. The rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, loving affairs between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and the gopīs are expansion of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. That is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. That is not material thing. It is a transformation of the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī-śaktir asmāt. So this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is meant for taking these misguided living beings to the topmost perfection of life in the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛti. This is the aim of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and in India still, in Manipur, the idea is being cultivated, and I shall be very glad that you Europeans and Americans who are present here may catch up this idea and introduce in your country. And actually they'll be happy if they follow the principles that vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ ca viṣṇoḥ.

*These activities between the gopīs and Viṣṇu... Kṛṣṇa is the origin of Viṣṇu. So, anuśṛṇuyāt if we repeatedly... Anu means constantly, and anu means following. The process is to follow or to chant about Kṛṣṇa's activities. Follow means in the paramparā system to understand Kṛṣṇa, what He is. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. Do not understand or misunderstand Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being like one of us. No. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Kṛṣṇa comes to attract you, that "You are seeking after happiness. Here is the happiness. Come to Me. Dance with Me." But we are misled. There is life like this, that you can dance with Kṛṣṇa, you can play with Kṛṣṇa, you can enjoy with Kṛṣṇa. So that requires training. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. These things are there. If you become trained up, then exactly after giving up this life, you can go to dance with Kṛṣṇa. That is possible. It is not a myth, mythology, as rascals think. No. You can have this life, dance with Kṛṣṇa, play with Kṛṣṇa. Simply you have to become trained up. Then, as Kṛṣṇa says,

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]



*You can go. But don't misunderstand. Kṛṣṇa and His pastimes with the gopīs, you should understand it properly*-tattvam. That is called tattvam.



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



You must understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, in fact.



*So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself to teach you, to show you what does He do in His Goloka Vṛndāvana. And if we are fortunate enough, be attracted with the Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, and if we constantly think of it, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14], then your life will be perfect. That is the aim and purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to give to the human society the highest blessing, the most perfectional platform of life. So my request is that those who are becoming interested in Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they may not be misled. Kṛṣṇa's activities with Rādhārāṇī and the gopīs, they are completely spiritual, ahlādinī-śaktiḥ. And if we understand properly about Kṛṣṇa's activities, then ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]*-we reach to the platform of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Because we are seeking after ānanda, bliss... That is the information from the Vedānta-sūtra. Ānandamaya abhyāsāt. We living entities, we are by nature blissful, seeking after happiness. But this happiness is not possible if we become compact in material activities. If you seek the happiness in the material platform, you'll be frustrated. It is to be sought after in the spiritual platform. So actually it is forbidden that sannyāsīs should not see any dancing by woman or any singing by woman, but we are not violating these rules. Just to remember that here is a hint how Kṛṣṇa is spiritually enjoying, if we see and hear on that spirit, then it is very good; otherwise it is not good. So if he is actually guided by these verses in the Vedic literature...

*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*vikrīḍitaṁ vrana*-vadhūbhir idaṁ ca viṣṇoḥ

śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ

*bhaktiṁ parāṁ pratilabhya hṛd*-roga-

kāmān apahinoty āśu dhīraḥ



*So we should always remember this rādhā*-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī-śaktir asmāt. Then it will be very much beneficial.



So this kind of dancing is very welcome all over the world if we do not misunderstand Kṛṣṇa. That should be the precaution. Otherwise it is very, very good. And our purpose is to introduce these Kṛṣṇa pastimes all over the world so that they may take lesson that they are seeking after happiness; the happiness is with Kṛṣṇa, not in the material world, Then you'll be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750406LE.MAY

Lecture After Play

-

Māyāpur, April 6, 1975



Prabhupāda: ...dramatical performance. It is very nice. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu also introduced this dramatical play when He was gṛhastha at Navadvīpa, and all the devotees used to see. But they were played by all males. There was no such thing, female taking part. This female taking part was later on introduced by one dramatist, by Girish Chandra Ghose, imitating the Western way of dramatical play. Otherwise, in our childhood, we never saw any dramatical play performed by woman. So if you organize this kind of play, at least they'll be appreciated by the saintly order. The sannyāsīs also can see, but parts played by women, the sannyāsīs cannot see. That is not..., strictly prohibited. By Caitanya Mahāprabhu's personal example we can see that there was a dancing and musical play by women in the Jagannātha temple. Of course, ordinary visitors, they can see, but sannyāsīs or brahmacārīs, they are strictly prohibited. So when the music was going on, Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very ecstatic, that "Such a nice music is coming from Jagannātha temple. Let Me go and see." Then His personal servant Govinda prohibited Him, "Sir, these songs are from woman." "Oh? It is from woman? Govinda, you have saved My life." (laughter) So sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs are strictly prohibited to hear or to see dancing woman. Of course, in your country it is very difficult. But at least if such play, dramatical play performed, the sannyāsīs, brahmacārīs cannot take part. But if the parts are played by male members, everyone can see, in front of the Deity. There is no harm.



Thank you very much. (end)



750414L2.HYD

Life Member House Lecture

-

Hyderabad, April 14, 1975



*Prabhupāda: So Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, kīṭa janma hao yathā tuyā dāsa, bahir nā brahma janme nāhi mora āsa. Kītā janma hao yathā tuyā dāsa. Tuyā dāsa means your servant. Actually we are all servants of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvera svarūpa hoy nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa. But forgetting our position, we are now acting as dāsa of māyā, māyāra-dāsa. Hoiya māyāra dāsa kori nānā abhilāṣ. The advantage of Kṛṣṇa dāsa is that he has got only one desire. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]*-to serve Kṛṣṇa purely. That's all. Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is person, and whatever He orders, whatever He says, if you carry out faithfully, then our original constitutional position is regained. It can be done very quickly. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And if you do that immediately, then you revive your original position immediately, within a second. Hoiya māyāra dāsa kori nānā abhilās. We are making plans in so many ways to be happy. But if we accept this one plan, that immediately surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. And if we do not accept this proposal of Kṛṣṇa, and if we make our own plans to be happy, it will be never be possible. Hoiya māyāra dāsa kori nānā abhilāṣ. Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gelā, ataeva māyāra tare goliyā badila. We are not independent. If we do not agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then we have to serve māyā. Our position as servant is never changed. We remain servant. So if we don't agree to accept Kṛṣṇa's proposal sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], then we have to take shelter of māyā and you have to perpetually serve. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].



*To serve māyā means to continue this material existence one after another. Now I've got this body, you've got this body, and if we do not change our attitude to serve Kṛṣṇa, then we get again next body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. We can see. There are so many trees, plants, insects, animals. They're all living entities. Also there are nice body*-Americans, Europeans, beautiful body, or demigod's body. There are different bodies, eight million... So long we shall remain māyā-dāsa, we have to change this body one after another. It may be of higher standard or it may be of lower standard. That will depend on my work. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. This is the philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are... We are not independent. We are completely under the control of material nature, and we get different types of bodies on account of associating with different modes of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅga asya sad-asad janma yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Sat, asat, there are two kinds of status quo, sat and asat. Sat means nice, or eternal, and asat means not very nice. So either you can get the body of the human society or you can get a body in the hog society, dog society. But the activities of the hogs and dogs and human being, if it is carried on in ignorance, eating, sleeping, mating... Then there is no difference. There is no difference. There is no difference to become a hog or to become a man. A man is also eating; hog is also eating according to one's taste. The man is also sleeping; *the hog is also sleeping, according to the position. So that does not make any difference between a human being and a hog. But at the present moment we are taken this civilization that hog is eating stool, and if we are eating very nice plate, then you're civilized. But śāstra says no. Eating and the taste of eating is the same. Always enjoying eating stool, and you're enjoying eating something else*-the taste of eating is the same. There is no difference. You like something; *I like something. But the common formula is that you eat, I also eat. Therefore we have to change this formula. If you simply waste our time like the hogs*-eating, sleeping, sex-life and defense-then that is not human life.

*Human life is meant for tapasya. That is not possible by the hogs and dogs. Tapasya, austerities. By austerities, by tapasya we can purify our existence. You are existing at the present moment because we are changing body, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralī... Therefore it is polluted existence. This is not pure existence. Pure existence is eternal life, blissfulness and knowledge, full of knowledge. That is pure life. So the human life is meant for purifying our existence. Stop this continuation of birth, death, old age and disease and live eternally blissful life of knowledge. That is the business of human life. But people do not take this fact very seriously. They have become so dull*-headed. Now there is freedom from this continuation of birth, death, old age and disease, they cannot believe it. They cannot consider it. They think, "Ah, it is going on." So the modern civilization is quite different from the Vedic civilization. Vedic civilization means to make a solution of this problem: stop this process of birth, death, old age and disease. That is Vedic civilization. That is human civilization. And to become better hog, nicely dressed hog, that is not Vedic civilization. That is hog civilization.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save people from the hog civilization or dog civilization to human civilization. That is... Human civilization means plain living and advancing in spiritual consciousness, not to increase unnecessarily artificial way of life. But we should know what is the aim of life and try to actually (achieve) success in the aim of life in any condition. That is Vedic civilization. Any condition. Any condition means in the material world we find that somebody is well situated and somebody... We think like that. Nobody is well situated. But we think like that. So if we want to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in any material condition we can do that. Ahaituky apratihatā. Any material condition cannot check our advancement in spiritual life. Just like these European, American boys and girls, they're not accustomed to sit down on the ground. In their country that is not their civilization. They sit down very nicely on chairs and very nice apartment. But because they have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they do not hesitate to sit down in any condition of life. This is advancement. They do not grudge that "We are not accustomed to sit in this way." No. That is any condition, any condition of life. Kṛṣṇa also says,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*So we can accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness in any condition life. There is no impediment. That is spiritual. That is spiritual. Not that "Unless such and such conditions are fulfilled I cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." No. As I told in the beginning, that you can accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness within a second. As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you immediately take Kṛṣṇa, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa..." You have thoroughly read Bhagavad-gītā, then we understand that "We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. Why not surrender?" That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa says that is the way of life. Ultimately one has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is the success, ultimate success. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. One is accepting immediately and one is experimenting with truth, and it will take many, many births. Kleśa adhikataras teṣām avyakta āsakta cetasām. Kṛṣṇa is presently instructing in person, and foolish people are thinking that He's imperson. Why imperson? Kṛṣṇa is always speaking: mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. The first person is used everywhere. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Aham. Kṛṣṇa says aham, person. So why we should think of Kṛṣṇa being imperson? This is our misfortune. Therefore it takes many, many births. Even one is jñānavān it takes many, many births to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Although he's jñānavān, superficially, still his jñāna has been taken away. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānā. Although he's proud of his knowledge, the māyā says, "No, no, no. Why you are accepting Kṛṣṇa as person? He's imperson." So māyā is dictating and taking away his knowledge. māyayā apahṛta-jñānā. Kṛṣṇa says aham, "I, Me." These are first person, person, first person. And still these people are thinking of Kṛṣṇa as imperson. Why? This is called māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They have studied the Vedic literature but could not understand what is Kṛṣṇa.



*So intelligent person, instead of waiting many, many births to understand Kṛṣṇa, may take it immediately what Kṛṣṇa says, as it is. Then his life is successful. So that is possible to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is saying. But because on account of our sinful activities, we cannot understand. Duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities, very intelligent person, but engaged in sinful activities. Nowadays... All the people are nowadays educated, but all of them, mostly, ninety*-nine percent, they're engaged in sinful activities-illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. These are sinful activities and, in spite of advancement of education all over the world, these things are going on. Therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is understood by a person who is no more engaged in sinful activities.

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



So we are trying, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose, that stop sinful activities and hear Kṛṣṇa and accept Him as He is saying. Then your life is successful. That's all. Very simple thing. And those who are adopting this ways, this process of life, is becoming successful practically. There is no doubt about it. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu. Asaṁśayam, without any doubt. Samagram, in full, not partial.



*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi...

[Bg. 7.1]



So Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself that yathā jñāsyasi, without any doubt, asaṁśayam, and samagram. Samagram means in fullness, the Absolute Truth in full. The Absolute Truth is realized as Brahman, as Paramātmā, as Bhagavān. So Kṛṣṇa says, "I'm giving you full knowledge, both of Paramātmā and Brahman and My personal knowledge." Yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu, "Just hear, hear from Me."



*So this is the opportunity in human life. Kṛṣṇa is explaining, God is explaining Himself, and still if you remain dulls and fools and rascals, then it is our misfortune. That is explained narādhama. Narādhama. Narādhama cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Narādhama, lowest of the mankind. Narādhama. Nara means man and adhama means lowest. So those who are narādhama they will escape this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise anyone who is intelligent, intelligent after many, many birth's experience, he'll accept. So we can understand by this crucial test or test tube(?) what is what. So anyway, our business is you Western boys and girls, you have taken this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously. I'm very much thankful to you. So try to make the people uttama, although at the present moment they are narādhama, without understanding Kṛṣṇa. So these are not exaggeration. This is stated in the śāstra. And our point is that anyone who is not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's among these groups*-duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayā apahṛta-jñānā āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The basic principle is āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Asura. Asura means against God always. Rāvaṇa was asura. Hiraṇyakaśipu was asura. They are very learned scholar, son of a brāhmaṇa and very powerful. The only fault was they did not believe in God; therefore they are called asuras. So anyone who does not believe in God, he's asura. This is the verdict of the śāstra. And this asuric civilization is going on all over the world. So we are making little effort to make the asuras devotees. That's all. This is our business.

*So we are very much thankful to Mr. Kulanidhi(?). He has given us a place, very important place, and you are constructing temple. He's always eager to help us. Therefore he's a bhakta. We are very much thankful to him. He's a bhakta. So at any moment Mr. Kulanidhi will call us. We are ready to come here, because he's a bhakta. Mad*-bhakta pūjyā adhikaḥ. Kṛṣṇa likes if you honor the bhakta. Kṛṣṇa is very much pleased. "If you love me, love my dog." We have seen in the Western countries when two gentlemen meet, he pats his friend's dog and he pats the friend's dog. That you have seen it. (laughs) First of all dog, "How are you? How are you?" (everyone laughs) So let us all become dogs of Kṛṣṇa, and bhaktas will love us.

Thank you very much. (end)



750414LE.HYD

Lecture on Science of Kṛṣṇa

-

Hyderabad, April 14, 1975



*Prabhupāda: [break] ...śakti, śaktimān. The Supreme Lord is śaktimān. Just like the sun and the sunshine and the Sun-god, and practically they are one. From the Sun-god there is... The abode of the Sun*-god is the sun globe, and the shining of the sun globe is also sunshine. So in one sense they are one, in other sense they are different. Just like the sunshine is reaching here, it does not mean the sun globe is reaching here. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā: [Bg. 9.4] "I am spread." So sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, everything is Kṛṣṇa. But at the same time, if you commit mistake... The same way, "Because the sunshine is here, therefore sun is here." That is a mistake. This is viśiṣṭa-advaita. They are all one, advaya-jnana, but still they're different. Advaita-viśiṣṭa. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jnanam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. Advayam means advaya, advaita, no difference, the same thing. But viśiṣṭa. This is Brahman, this is Paramātmā, viśiṣṭa. Advaita but viśiṣṭa. A specific reference: Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān, they are one. But still, you cannot say Brahman is Bhagavān. The same example: the sunshine and the sun globe, they are one. Unless there is appearance of the sun globe, sun planet, you cannot have sunshine. So in that sense, they are one, but still if you take sunshine as the sun globe, that is not correct.



Woman: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. They're all one.



Woman: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. But still there is specific differences. That is called viśiṣṭa. One with specific difference. And the Māyāvādī philosophers, they say, "No, there is no specific difference. This is māyā." But we Vaiṣṇava, we don't say that. That sunshine is sunshine, sun globe is sun globe, and Sun*-god is Sun-god. But taken together, they are all one. Diversity in unity. That is viśiṣṭa-advaitavāda. So actually, all the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Nimbārka, and Viṣṇu Svāmī, there is no difference of opinion, but they have explained the Absolute Truth more vividly in their own angle of vision. Otherwise there is no difference. They never say that God and the living being are one. They will never say that. That is not Vaiṣṇava philosophy. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. So the propounder of Māyāvāda philosophy is Śaṅkarācārya and other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, practically they are all one opinion. There is no, they differ from Śaṅkarācārya.



*And if we study philosophy intelligently, then we can understand that living being, jīva, how he can become one with the Supreme? Then why he has become jīva? Jīva is eternally. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loka sanātana [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātana. Sanātana means eternally. He is fragmental parts of the Supreme. Not that by māyā he is thinking fragmental parts, but actually he is one. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. Kṛṣṇa says, sanātana. He is fragmental parts, sanātana, eternally. Besides that, it is clearly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces, acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam, so how it becomes a small fragment? Acchedyo 'yam, you cannot cut into pieces, spirit. And it is further explained that these fragmental parts eternally, from the very beginning. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "My dear Arjuna, you, Me and all these soldiers and kings who have assembled there, they existed like this in the past, they're existing in the same way, and they'll continue to exist like that." There is no question of becoming one. Past, present, future, always we are distinct. So how they can be one sanātana? We are part and parcel sanātana, eternally. But in quality we are one. In quality we are one. Kṛṣṇa is eternal. We are eternal. Kṛṣṇa is spirit. We are spirit. Kṛṣṇa is also person. We are also person. In this way, we are one but He is the great, and we are servants. This is actual position. And if we claim that after being freed from māyā, we shall become one with the Supreme, that is called Māyāvāda. We eternally, we are separate. Dvaitavāda. That is Madhvācārya's philosophy, dvaitavāda. So if you consider very cool-headed, then Vaiṣṇava philosophy is the best, not this Māyāvāda philosophy.

Woman: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not under karma. That is difference. That is difference between me and Kṛṣṇa. We are...



Woman: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Woman: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: But He is not under karma. He is not under karma. Yes. We are. That is the difference.



Woman: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Woman: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: That I am pointing out. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. We are bound up by the laws and regulation of karma. But Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Yes. That is the difference. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma*-phale spṛhā [Bg. 4.14]. He's not bound up by the karma. But we take sometimes, mistake, that Kṛṣṇa is like us. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. They are mūḍhas. They do not know it, what is Kṛṣṇa. They think Kṛṣṇa as a human being like us. That is mūḍha. Therefore they do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mudhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So they remain narādhama. They do not make any progress.



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Who has interpreted?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we accept also. We say māyā. But one can be free from māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then one is not captivated by māyā. Māyā is there. Just like police is there. If you are not a criminal, then police has nothing to do with you. Police may be there. But if you are a criminal, then police will arrest you. Similarly, māyā is acting as police force of Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as you become criminal, forget Kṛṣṇa as your master, then the police, māyā, will capture you. That is the business.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāsate māyāra tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*As soon as you try to become independent of Kṛṣṇa, immediately māyā captures. This is the beginning of māyā. And again when you surrender, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. No more māyā. So to become free from māyā is very easy provided one understands Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as he understands Kṛṣṇa, he understands his duty, that my duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is called bhakti, immediately he becomes free from all the contamination of māyā. Sa gunān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Who? Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. If you employ yourself immediately in loving service of Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa also says, māyām etāṁ taranti te. So all the devotees they are not under māyā. They're already in liberated stage. Therefore a devotee does not want liberation because he's already liberated. Why he'll aspire about liberation? That is explained by Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān. Mukti is standing before me with folded hand, "What can I do for you?" So why the devotees will aspire (to) mukti? Mukti is ready to serve him as maidservant. This is the position of devotee. Muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate, this is the great authority, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. Yes?



Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Prapati is the beginning of bhakti. Prapati is the beginning of bhakti. Unless you are accepting the principle of prapa..., surrender, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, there is no question of bhakti. Bhakti is the process of surrender fully.



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: There is no difference. There is no difference. Nārāyaṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is Nārāyaṇa. And oṁ namo is addressing Him, "Oh Nārāyaṇa, please engage me in Your service." Hare Kṛṣṇa is also addressing. Hare, Hara, the potency of Kṛṣṇa or the potency or energy of Kṛṣṇa, "Oh Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is Hare Kṛṣṇa. The same meaning. There is no difference. The real business is that Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. And if we voluntarily surrender, then Kṛṣṇa becomes very pleased. So this is surrender. "Oh Kṛṣṇa, Oh energy of Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me again in Your service." That's all. This is Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "Oh Hara, Oh Kṛṣṇa." Because Kṛṣṇa's there, Kṛṣṇa's energy is there. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. So Kṛṣṇa's one energy is this material energy, mama māyā. This māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. It is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Śakti śaktimatayor abheda. There is no difference between fire and the heat. Heat is also fire. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy, they're one. At the same time, different. This is called acintya*-bhedābheda-tattva. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. Simultaneously one and different.



*So we are praying to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy. If we pray to Kṛṣṇa's energy, she is Kṛṣṇa's energy, she will understand, "Now, he is now correct." So she gives facilities. She gives facilities, "Yes, now you can serve Kṛṣṇa. I give you... I give you freedom. You are no more under my clutches." Māyām etāṁ taranti te. Immediately you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you are immediately liberated. We haven't got to search out liberation separately. Immediately surrender to Kṛṣṇa, immediately you are liberated, immediately, simultaneous. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. At that time māyā takes another feature. That is called yoga*-māyā. The same māyā Just like the same government laws acting in the prison house differently, and acting in the university differently. But the potency is the same. If we take protection of the civil laws, then you are happy. And if we take protection of the criminal laws then you are unhappy. That's all. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that you have to take shelter of one of the potencies of Kṛṣṇa. Better take the shelter of the spiritual potency. Then you become happy. You cannot be free. That is not possible. Just like you cannot defy the government laws. That is not possible. If you defy civil laws then you become subjected to the criminal law. You cannot say that "I defy government." That is not possible. Similarly, you cannot defy Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's potencies. Better you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual potency and be happy. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13], that is mahātmā, who takes shelter of the spiritual potency of Kṛṣṇa. And what is the sign? Bhajanty ananya-manaso. That is mahātmā. He has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours. Then he is immediately mukta. That is not difficult. So any other question?

Guest: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: That's all right. If there is sense... If there is sense that Lord Śiva is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel, then it is all right. But if he thinks Lord Śiva is separate authority, then it is mistake. Kṛṣṇa says... What is that śloka? Verse, you recite? Ye yathā mām...



Guest: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: That is "I," Kṛṣṇa. That is "I," Kṛṣṇa. If you understand this demigod... Just like this finger. If you understand this finger belongs to Swamijī, then you are correct. And if you think that this finger is separate power, that is incorrect. This finger is powerful so long attached to the body. And if you cut the finger from the body, it has no power. Similarly, the demigods, if you accept that they are different part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa*-there must be relationship with Kṛṣṇa-then it is correct. Just like it is said, sūrya, sūrya upāsanā, that or durgā upāsanā. These are different upāsanā, sūrya, or pañcopāsanā, durgā upāsanā, sūrya upāsanā, gaṇeśa upāsanā, and viṣṇu upāsanā. Pañcopāsanā. So how we can worship? Just like Durgā. Durgā is worshiped by the Vaiṣṇava in this way, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva ya... [Bs. 5.44]. [break](end)





750420SP.VRN

Speech

-

Vṛndāvana, April 20, 1975



Prabhupāda:

*...kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmine gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*he kṛṣṇa karuṇā*-sindho

*dīna*-bandho jagat-pate

*gopeśa gopikā*-kānta

*rādhā*-kānta namo 'stu te



[O my dear Kṛṣṇa, ocean of mercy, You are the friend of the distressed and the source of creation. You are the master of the cowherdmen and the lover of the gopīs, especially Rādhārāṇī. I offer my respectful obeisances unto You.]



hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare

hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare



[My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.]



*Śrīman Rajya*-pala Sahib... (Hindi). Acyutānanda Swami, he has tried to speak in Hindi, and you have heard him. So similarly, (Hindi). So he has given me permission to speak in English.



Devotees: Haribol!



*Prabhupāda: Thank you. (chuckles) Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is addressed by Rūpa Gosvāmī as mahā*-vadānyāya.



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmine gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-nāmine. He has assumed the name of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. Actually He is Kṛṣṇa. That is confirmed in many literature. Especially in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said,



*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣa ākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*So Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after taking His sannyāsa order, His name was Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. So Rūpa Gosvāmī said that "You are Kṛṣṇa. You have now come as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." Why? Kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "Just to distribute love of Kṛṣṇa." And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission was premā pum-artho mahān. Generally people understand dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90], but Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that above mokṣa, above liberation, there is love of God. That is wanted. Premā pum-artho mahān. And this is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām, vāstavya-vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. And Śrīdhara Swami says that kaitava-dharma... In simple word, cheating. Kaitava means cheating, or false. So when there are false dealings, that is cheating. So according to Vyāsadeva, dharma artha kāma mokṣa, that is not very essential thing. Real thing is how to advance in the science of loving God, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-prema. And the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says,



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yena ātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*If you want really peace, then you should stand on the platform of paro dharma. Paro dharma. Just like Kṛṣṇa has described, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāh. Parā and para. Parā is applicable to the puruṣa, and para is applicable to the prakṛti. So we are prakṛti, we are not puruṣa. Puruṣa is Kṛṣṇa, as described by Arjuna in the Bhagavad*-gītā, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā also it is: ādi-puruṣaṁ. Kṛṣṇa is described, ādi-puruṣaṁ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, anādiḥ ādiḥ govindam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. [Bs. 5.1]



*So this Kṛṣṇa*-bhakti, Kṛṣṇa personally came to teach Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He came here in this district Mathurā. And the Kṛṣṇa birthplace is still there. So Kṛṣṇa personally came to teach the science of Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. And although He proposed that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge, but at the end He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And this is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that dharma-projjhita kaitavo atra. Except surrendering to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, anything which is going on in the name of dharma, that is not dharma. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. When Kṛṣṇa came, He did not come to reestablish Hindu religion or Christian religion or Muslim religion. No. Religion is religion. Gold is gold. You cannot say "Hindu gold," "Muslim gold," "Christian gold." That is not possible. That is not possible. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. Gold is gold, pure gold. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Dharma means the order or the law given by God." That is dharma. This is the simple explanation of dharma. If you want to know what do we mean by dharma, then dharma means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like law. Law means which is given, sanctioned by the governor. You cannot make your law at home. You cannot say, "The law given by the government or by the governor, I don't care for it. I shall make my own law." That is not possible. That will never be accepted as law. You can make your law. Similarly, if you manufacture dharma without any reference to the authority, that is not dharma. That is cheating religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ.

So therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, what He is speaking, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, that is dharma. All other things are cheating. And when Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, He does not say it to any particular community or any country or any nation. He speaks to everyone.

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*He says, "I am the seed*-giving father of all forms of life." Kṛṣṇa does not say that "I am speaking to Indian or the Hindus." No. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to everyone, to His every son. It doesn't matter whether he is white or black or blue or... It doesn't matter. These are skin disease. Kṛṣṇa says that we don't take this body as yourself. Asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... [Bg. 2.13]. This transformation of the body, that is natural. But within the body, the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa is there. That you have to understand, that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. We have to understand what is there within the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Unfortunately, the whole world is going on under the impression that "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am European..." That is condemned in the śāstra.



*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*Go, go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. So yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This bag of three dhātus-kapha, pitta, vāyu-if one takes it that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," so śāstra says, "He is not even human being." Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very important from this angle of vision, that everyone is thinking this body as he is. Nobody understands that he is within this body. Just like we are within this dress. I am not this dress. This is the primary education of spiritual life. Unfortunately, it is very much lacking. And now you can see practically that these European and American boys, they are all young men, but they have forgotten the bodily relationship. We have got in our institution Africans, Canadians, Australians, Europeans, Indians, but they do not consider with reference to this bodily concept of life. They live as eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is the instruction given by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].



*So actually, if we want to be happy, then we have to accept the principle of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Bhakti comes out of love. You cannot make one forced to love you. It comes automatically. That automatic love is there in everyone's heart for Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta:

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*Udaya means it is awakened. Everyone has got love for Kṛṣṇa within the heart. That is natural. But that love is distributed in different ways. How? Yasyātmā*-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatradisu bhauma idya-dhiḥ [SB 10.84.13]. This love has been distributed familywise, communitywise, nationwise, countrywise, like that. So this love has to be concentrated, converted to be love of Kṛṣṇa. That is required. Then everything is perfect. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching, and He practically... Kṛṣṇa-prema-prdaya. To develop love for somebody, that requires very elaborate process. It is not... Because we are in the darkness. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



*So we cannot understand even Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. Actually, there are so many malinterpretation about Kṛṣṇa. I do not wish to discuss because they have been made mistaken by big, big leaders. So people cannot understand even Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, and what to speak of loving Kṛṣṇa. That is very difficult job. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He distributed this love of Kṛṣṇa. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Lord Nityānanda is standing before you, and He delivered many, many sinful persons to the transcendental position of love of Kṛṣṇa. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, vrajendra*-nandana yei, śacī-suta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi. This Balarāma, He became Nitai, and Kṛṣṇa, He became Caitanya Mahāprabhu. These two brothers, the same two brothers, Rāma-Laksman, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda Prabhu. So what was Their business? The pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is Their business. All the pāpīs and all the persons suffering from material anxieties, They delivered, "Yes." How? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. There were two brothers, Jagāi and Mādhāi. They are very debauchees. That debauchees means what was their fault? The fault was that they took their birth in brāhmaṇa family, but they became woman-hunter and drunkards and cheaters, like that. So Nityānand a Prabhu delivered them to become first-class Vaiṣṇava. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. So five hundred years ago, to become a drunkard was most abominable, especially in the higher section of the Hindu society. But now it has become a fashion. So if you want to develop the position of the society, position of the country, which is now full with pāpī-tāpī, you have to accept the process of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and that is practically being manifested. These European, American boys, they are also the same type, Jagāi and Mādhāi. That is a fact. They were at least. Now they are not. So how they have become delivered? The same process. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important, and there is practical result, that you introduce this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra offenselessly, not with offense, then the world situation will improve very much. That's a fact. And it is being actually enacted in the present position. We are sending our men from village to village in Europe and America. We have introduced. We are taking advantage of the modern facilities. We are using this microphone for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we are using nice buses, cars and wagons to go to village to village and distribute book and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. One of the leaders is present here, Śrīman Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Gosvāmī. He is going. He is controlling about one dozen buses. And here is Haṁsadūta also. He is doing the same in Germany. So we have introduced this as Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma. Throughout the whole world, as many villages and towns are there, this saṅkīrtana movement should be introduced. And especially in India, because if in India the people are generally Kṛṣṇa conscious. By artificial means they are trying to forget. This is the position. This should be stopped. They have got natural tendency for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore in these days, still so many hundreds and thousands of people coming to Vṛndāvana to relish the transcendental mellow of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And now the foreigners are also attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And I am trying to place them in our temple. This temple is one of them. We have got four, five temples in India. We are constructing one big temple in Hyderabad, and we are getting good response. So it is our request to the leaders of the society and to the people of India that they may take this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, very seriously. It will be good for everyone and the whole world will become peaceful. We do not expect that throughout the whole world everyone will take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But even five percent, two percent, three percent people takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there will be great example. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21].

So our only request is that this simple thing,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*this formula of the Vedic śāstra. And you will be surprised. I invite you to come to our different centers in Europe and America, how they are chanting, dancing before the Deity, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda or Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa. Recently I had been to Atlanta for the first time. But the boys and the girls there, they have taken three big, big houses. The middle house has been transformed into temple. How nicely they are chanting and dancing. You will be surprised if you go. So this movement is undoubtedly increasing in the foreign countries, and why not in our country? So the government, the leaders and the guardians, they should deeply contemplate on the serious nature of this movement and help us. Now we are bringing men from the foreign countries to preach. How long I shall bring? If we want to spread this movement all over India very seriously, then we invite educated, intellectual young men to come forward to study this movement. It is not blind; we have got books. We have already published about fifty books on this movement. So for the Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is meant for both kind of men. The ordinary men without any education, illiterate, he can also take to it, and the most advanced scientists, philosopher, philanthropist, politician, they also can take to it. So we are helping both ways. Those who are educated scientist, philosopher, for them we have got volumes of books. And those who are not educated, they can simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will help them, both ways. Therefore this movement has become important and interesting. Our books are being purchased by the topmost class of man. Big, big professors in the universities, they are giving standing order. The books which are not published, they are putting standing order. Here our one sannyāsī is present, Satsvarūpa. He is visiting the libraries, universities, professors, and we are getting very good response. So don't take it as a sectarian movement. Don't misunderstand this movement as a CIA movement. These are all foolishness. Do you think that the Americans are so fools that for propagating their CIA movement they will become Vaiṣṇava and chant and dance? The Americans have become so fools? No. They have taken it very seriously. They are not CIA, not American nor European. They are Vaiṣṇavas; they are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Don't misunderstand them. And try to cooperate and help this movement for the benefit of the whole human society.



Thank you very much. (end)



750427SP.VRN

Speech

-

Vṛndāvana, April 27, 1975



*Prabhupāda: ...cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ. I could have spoken in Hindi, but with the permission of Śrīpāda Nṛsiṁha-vallabha Gosvāmī, because most of my students here present, they could not understand the Hindi speaking, so it is my duty to inform them the substance of his speech in English so that you can appreciate how much he has eulogized our movement. You haven't got to be disappointed because some of the envious person, they are not accepting you as Vaiṣṇava. Śrīpāda Nṛsiṁha-vallabha Gosvāmī, quoting from many authorized scriptures, he has proved that in the matter of engaging oneself in the devotional service, there is no check, there is no impediment. That is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: ahaituky apratihatā. That he has very nicely explained, quoting many authoritative statement from scriptures. And another thing... It is a fact that nobody can check Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. It is transcendental; *it is not material. Unless one acts on the platform of spiritual activities, one cannot understand why bhakti is apratihatā. Pratihatā means checked by impediments. So that is for material things. Just like a living being, a soul, he is checked by this material body. Otherwise a living being can go anywhere, sarva*-gaḥ. The spirit soul is free to move anywhere, but because we are now covered by the material body, we are checked. But devotional service is on the transcendental platform; *it cannot be checked. Therefore in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is explained, ahaituky apratihatā yenātmā samprasīdati.



*So I am very much pleased. I will not take much time. The ārātik time is now. You do not be disappointed by the activities of some envious person. Bhāgavata*-dharma is meant for the nonenvious person. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. Nirmatsara. Anyone who is contaminated by envy, he cannot become Vaiṣṇava. He may be a envious animal, but Vaiṣṇava is paramahaṁsa, paramo nirmatsarāṇām. He is not envious. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Śrī Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "My Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, I have no problems." Naivodvije para duratyayā-vaitaraṇyāḥ tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ [SB 7.9.43]. "Personally, I have no problem. But I am sorry, very sorry because..." Tato vimukha-cetasa: "Those who are bereft of Your devotional service, for them I am sorry." So Vaiṣṇava is sorry for others' difficulties. Otherwise Vaiṣṇava has no difficulty. He is aprākṛta. So,

māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyā...

[Bg. 14.26]



He is on the Brahman platform. He is not on the material platform. Material platform means I am envious of you; *you are envious of me. This is material platform. So as soon as one becomes envious of something, he is on the material platform. He is not Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is on the spiritual platform. He is udāra, para*-duḥkha-duḥkhī, as Prahlāda Mahārāja... Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. The materialistic persons are described as vimūḍhān, fools, rascals. They do not know. And the Vaiṣṇava platform is not vimūḍhān. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. That is described.



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama...

[Bg. 5.18]



*That is paṇḍita. That is brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54].



*So these are... There is authoritative statements in all the śāstras, but if we do not care for śāstra and sādhu and devotees, we manufacture our own way of life, that is different things. We have nothing to speak about that. On the whole, I am very much thankful to Śrīpāda Nṛsiṁha*-vallabha Gosvāmī that he has come, taking so much trouble. He is old man. And he has advised you that you stick to bhakti principle, and that will make your life successful. You have come so far, distant place, in Vṛndāvana, from America, Australia, Africa, spending so much money. So... Of course, there is no consideration of material profit and loss. But your anxiety, laulyam, that will make you successful in receiving the mercy, unalloyed mercy of Kṛṣṇa. So you have nothing to be disappointed. You go on with your prescribed duties, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and observe the rules and regulations as they have been given to you. Chant your numerical strength of beads and your life will be successful.

Thank you very much. (end)



750525LE.HON

Lecture

-

Honolulu, May 25, 1975



*Prabhupāda: So this Prahlāda*-caritra play, drama, is very instructive. Although it is not played on a very nice stage, theatrical, but the feeling expressed by the devotees in playing this Prahlāda-caritra has become very successful. We want to understand the feeling. Externally, we may not be very much equipped. Kṛṣṇa takes the feeling. Bhāva-grāhī janardana.



So Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the great personality in devotional line. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. It is very difficult to understand what is the purpose of religious principle. People actually do not know what is religion; *therefore we have got so many religious system, man-made, or concocted ideas. Actually, religion means the law given by God. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like the law given by the state, by the government, you have to accept it. There is no question that the government is Christian government or Muhammadan government or Hindu government. It doesn't matter. The law given by the government, you must accept. You cannot deny it. So actually God is neither Hindu God nor Muhammadan God nor Christian God. God is God. His power is omnipotent. It is equally applicable to Hindu, to Muslim, to Christian-anyone*-to animal, to human being. Just like God has given this law, "You must die." This is applicable to everyone-Hindu, Muslim, Christian, man, animal, trees, birds, beasts, everyone. It cannot be disobeyed. That is law. That is God's law. You may be very much advanced in knowledge or so-called science, but because God says that in the material life you must die, you cannot avoid this law. That is called dharma. Dharma means the characteristic, that God has given this law that everyone should die; therefore all living beings' characteristic is that he must die. This is called religion. Similarly, God says that "You are My eternal servant. You must obey Me." That is religion. You try to understand the meaning of religion. Religion means the law given by God, and you must accept it. That is religion.

So people do not know. They manufacture religion. So how you can manufacture religion? Law can be given by the king, by the state, by the government. If you manufacture some law at your home, consulting your wife or father and mother, who will accept it? Nobody will accept. You may be puffed up that you have manufactured a law, but nobody will care for it. The law given by the state will have to be accepted, either you like it or don't like it. The law will not depend on your liking and disliking. You must accept. If you don't accept, then you are a law breaker; *you will be punished. Similarly, the religion means, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is religion, that "You have manufactured so many types of religion. You give it up. Kick it out. This is religion: you surrender unto Me." So if you become a surrendered soul to God*-that means you become a devotee-then you are religionist. Otherwise you are criminal. Therefore śāstra says that you should follow the great devotees. That is religion. You cannot manufacture religion, you cannot concoct religion. You just try to follow the great personalities, and that is religion.

*So there... In the śāstra there are great personalities. They have been mentioned. Just like Lord Brahmā, Nārada Muni, Lord Śiva, then Kumāras, then Kapila, Manu, and Prahlāda. Prahlādo janako bhīṣmo. Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the great personalities who knows what is religion. So he practiced it. Unfortunately, he was born of a atheist father, Hiraṇyakaśipu. But by the grace of Nārada Muni he knew what is religion. You have seen in the play that when his mother was pregnant, the demigods were taking her to the prison just to keep her observation, that the child which is born of a atheist father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, may not be missed. They wanted to kill him also. But although he was born of an atheist father, demoniac father, he became a great devotee by the instruction of Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni took his poor mother. He asked the demigods, "Why you are harassing this lady? After all, she is woman. She is dependent." So by the order of Nārada Muni they let her go, and her husband was engaged in tapasya, so she had no protection. Therefore Nārada Muni took her at his āśrama and instructed her about God consciousness. That is the duty of saintly person. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, while he was within the womb of his mother, he heard all those instructions. His mother in due course of time-that is the nature of woman*-she forgot the instruction. But Prahlāda Mahārāja remembered; therefore he became a great devotee. This is the history of Prahlāda Mahārāja.

*So Prahlāda Mahārāja became a devotee, not a so*-called devotee, that "If my senses are gratified, then I shall continue to remain a devotee. Otherwise I shall slip away, go away. That's all." So he was not such kind of devotee. He remained devotee in all circumstances. You see his father wanted to chastise him is so many ways. But what was Prahlāda's fault? He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and the father did not like it. So he wanted to induce him to stop this Hare Kṛṣṇa, but he never stopped. In all circumstances he remained steady in..., when he was thrown into the boiling water... It is said oil. He was put into the oil. So he remained steady. So many demonic persons threatened him; *he remained steady. His mother was instructed by the father to give poison in the food. So he remained steady. Then the father understood that "My son has got some mystic power." The mystic power was that he was a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. A devotee never practices any mystic power. But a devotee, being protected by the supreme mystic, Kṛṣṇa, a devotee is never in danger in all circumstances. That is the instruction in this... So just to try... Try to remain a devotee always, and Kṛṣṇa will give you protection in all circumstance. There is no fear. Devotees, they remain devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa does everything. If something mystic or magic has to be shown, the devotee does not take any credit for that magic, because the magic is done by Kṛṣṇa for the sake of devotee. So he doesn't require to learn the art of magic to cheat the people. That is not. When magic is required, Kṛṣṇa plays. Kṛṣṇa is called Yogeśvara. Yoga is mystic power, and He is the Yogeśvara, master of yoga, mystic power. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ hariḥ. Just like Kṛṣṇa was on the chariot of the Kurukṣetra battle, Arjuna. Arjuna was facing enemies, big, big enemies like Bhīṣma, Karṇa, Dronācārya, and many other who were very very powerful. Arjuna was nothing before them. They are compared with timiṅgila, timiṅgila, a big fish which swallows up the whale fishes. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit said that "Although they were timiṅgila*-like, they could kill thousands of Arjuna, but still, because You were protecting him, sitting on his chariot, they were killed; Arjuna was not killed."

*So the devotee, he doesn't require to acquire any mystic power. What mystic power Prahlāda could attain? He was only five years old. So there was no opportunity of acquiring any mystic power. But he was being protected by the supreme mystic, Kṛṣṇa. That should be a devotee's point of view. Don't waste your time for acquiring so*-called mystic power. Just devote yourself to remain a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and you become the supreme mystic. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



*There are many yogis, mystics, but Kṛṣṇa confirms that "Of all the yogis, of all the mystics, a person who is always thinking of Me," śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad*-gatenāntarātmanā, "always thinking Me, Kṛṣṇa, within himself: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare...," so Kṛṣṇa said, "he is the best yogi." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. Sarveṣam means "of all." "Of all kinds of yogis, the best yogi is who is always thinking of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa's philosophy, He is teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things. If you sincerely do these four things-always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā; *just become His devotee, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto; *mad*-yājī, worship Kṛṣṇa... Just like we do in the temple room. Man-manā... You can do worship anywhere if you are a devotee. A devotee can worship Kṛṣṇa anywhere, underneath a tree. Because Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So if underneath a tree you think of Kṛṣṇa and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is sufficient. Kṛṣṇa does not require any big paraphernalia. He only wants how you are a sincere devotee. That's all. And that devotional service can be discharged in any condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked by the material circumstances. This is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you see the five-years-old boy, how he was protected from all kinds of dangers and he refused to take any benediction. He refused. The devotee should not be a mercantile man: "If you give me something, then I shall give you something." That is business. A devotee is not like that. He understands that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, his duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. In the material world a servant works when money is paid, wages. A devotee is not like that. A devotee serves Kṛṣṇa out of duty. That is God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "It is my duty." And then Kṛṣṇa takes the responsibility, "It is My duty to protect this devotee." This reciprocation is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no question of business transaction. Then he will be protected. Kṛṣṇa is nobody's servant, but everyone is Kṛṣṇa's servant. If everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa's servant, then everyone is protected by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is protecting. Kṛṣṇa is God, so He is protecting everyone, He is giving food everyone, but especially inclined to the devotees. Samaḥ sarveṣu-bhūteṣu.



*There is a verse, samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu na me dveśyo 'sti na priyaḥ [Bg. 9.29]. Kṛṣṇa says God must be equal to everyone. God is one, so He is giving everyone food. The birds, beasts, they are getting food. The elephant he is also getting food. So who is supplying him food? Kṛṣṇa, God is supplying. So in that way He is equal to everyone in ordinary dealing. But especially deals with the devotees. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. When he was put into danger, then Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva came personally to give him protection. That is the special duty of God. That is not unnatural. If somebody says, "God is partial, that He takes special care of His devotee," no, that is not partiality. Just like a gentleman*-in the neighborhood, he loves all children, but when his own child is in danger, he takes special care. That is not unnatural. You cannot blame him that "Why you are taking special care of your own child?" No. That is natural. Nobody will blame him. Similarly, everyone is God's sons, but His devotee is special. That is God's special attention. Ye tu bhajanti māṁ prītyā teṣu te mayi. So God is giving protection to every living entity, but if you become devotee of the Lord, pure devotee, without any motive, then God will take special care of you. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that we are being harassed by māyā, the material energy, and if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa then we will be specially protected. Mām eva prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.

So try to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this philosophy. We have got so many books. Whoever comes here must read the books, devotee, the inmates of the temple, outsider, then you will understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Or you should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa only. Don't talk rubbish things, waste time. That is not good. A single moment is so valuable that you cannot purchase it by millions of dollars. Now today is 25th May, four o'clock gone. You cannot bring it back. Four o'clock, 25th May, 1975, if you want to get it back again by paying millions of dollars, it will not be possible. Therefore we should be very careful of our time. Time once wasted, you cannot get it back return. Better utilize this time. The best utilization is to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or think of Kṛṣṇa, worship Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. (end)



751007LE.DUR

City Hall Lecture

-

Durban, October 7, 1975



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this great movement. This movement is not started by me. This was started long, long years ago by Kṛṣṇa Himself. Firstly, He spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad*-gītā to the sun-god. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter,



imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

[Bg. 4.2]



*So if we calculate the age of Manu, it comes to the point of forty millions of years. So Kṛṣṇa said that forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke this philosophy of Bhagavad*-gītā to the sun-god, Vivasvān. The name of the predominating deity in the sun planet is Vivasvān. His son, Manu, Vaivasvata Manu... His son, Ikṣvāku, the original person in the dynasty Sūrya-vaṁśa, in which Lord Rāmacandra appeared, Ikṣvāku... So in this way this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is coming since a very, very long time. But Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]: "Formerly the rājarṣis, they used to receive this instruction through the chain of disciplic succession." That was the way of understanding Bhagavad-gītā. But Kṛṣṇa said, sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭo parantapa. Now Kṛṣṇa, five thousand years ago, when Kṛṣṇa was talking with Arjuna in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, he was perplexed whether to fight or not to fight, and just to enthuse him in the fighting, He spoke this Bhagavad-gītā five thousand years ago to Arjuna. And He said there that "The paramparā system, disciplic succession, is now broken; therefore I am speaking to you again so that people may learn from you what is the purport of this philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*So five thousand years ago this philosophy was spoken to Arjuna, and we are having the instruction. Unfortunately that is again being distorted. Because we do not receive through the paramparā system, we inference, we make inferences in our own way, and therefore it is also again broken. Therefore again, five hundred years ago, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed this Bhagavad*-gītā as a devotee. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is supposed to be incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He instructed as the order-giving master, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], but still, people misunderstood. Therefore this time, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa Himself, appeared as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. That is described in the authentic śāstra:

*kṛṣṇa*-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

*sāṅgopāṅgāstra*-pārṣadam

yajñair saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair

*yajanti hi su*-medhasaḥ

[SB 11.5.32]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is practically Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. So Kṛṣṇa is very kind upon the conditioned soul. He is trying to elevate them to the real platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness again and again. But we are so stubborn, we are trying to forget Kṛṣṇa again and again. This is going on. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is... Especially He is instructing to the Indian people. He is saying to the Indian people, bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared in Bengal, you know, in the district of Navadvīpa, about sixty-four miles from Calcutta, northern side. So His life and precepts are there. We have translated many books. You'll find Teachings of Lord Caitanya and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, almost seventeen volumes, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. And we have summarized the teaching in one volume. So you can learn about the teachings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. But the summary of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is like this. He says to every Indian, not only Bengalis... It is not that because He appeared in Bengal, therefore He advised to the Bengalis. He is especially speaking to the Indians.



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Para*-upakāra. He says that "Anyone who has taken birth in India, Bhāratabhūmi..." Bhāratabhūmi is puṇya-bhūmi, the pious land. Within this universe... In the śāstra we find that even the demigods in the heavenly planets, they desire to take birth in India. India is so glorious. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that anyone who has taken birth as a human being in India, his business is to first of all make his life perfect by taking advantage of the Vedic knowledge, because it is available in India. So every Indian, especially the higher circles, namely the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, and the vaiśyas, especially the brāhmaṇa, it is their business to make the life perfect by studying the Vedic knowledge and distribute the knowledge all over the world. Para-upakāra. Because, so far spiritual knowledge is concerned, outside India they have got very meager knowledge; therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu requested that every Indian, especially the higher class, study the Vedic knowledge and distribute it throughout the whole world.



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Para-upakāra. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best welfare activities in the world because people are in ignorance. They are... Everyone, practically 99.9%, at the present moment, they are under the conception, bodily conception: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," like that. That is ignorance. That will be discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā very elaborately. So the question may be raised that "How I can do welfare activities for the welfare of the whole world?" The Caitanya Mahāprabhu encourages. He says that āmāra ājñāya hañā tāra ei deśa: "Wherever you are staying," ei deśa, "in that country... You may not go outside, but wherever you are staying," āmāra ājñāya, "by My order," guru hañā, "you must become a guru"*-by the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. "Then? I have no education. How can I become a guru? How can I instruct?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Yes, that I know. But you take My order." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "Then what shall I do?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: "You become guru. You haven't got to manufacture anything, any philosophy. You simply instruct whatever is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You become a guru." So our request is that you are so many Indians living in this foreign country for generations. So take this instruction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Because you are coming from India, therefore it is special request to you that "By the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, every one of you become a guru." And what shall you have to do? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Ei deśa. This South Africa, you are staying here. So you preach as a guru. And what shall you preach? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You haven't got to do anything. The instruction of Kṛṣṇa is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Don't distort it, but put it as it is. That's your duty. If you do simply this thing... Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Kṛṣṇa says Himself that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7].



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



This thing we have to understand, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He is accepted. Arjuna heard from Kṛṣṇa about Himself, and he says... He agreed, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. So He is accepted by the direct disciple, Arjuna; He is accepted by Vyāsadeva; He is accepted by Nārada Muni; and recently, within two thousand years, He is accepted by all the ācāryas of India-Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī; *and lately, five hundred years ago, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So there is no doubt about Kṛṣṇa's becoming the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is confirmed, ete cāṁśa kalāḥ puṁsāṁ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "The original Personality of Godhead-Kṛṣṇa." Similarly, in the Upaniṣad, in the Vedas, and Brahma-saṁhitā, if you take evidence from the śāstras, everywhere you will find, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. In the Brahma-saṁhitā, which is supposed to be written by Lord Brahmā, he says in the beginning,



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So from sastric evidences, from authentic evidences, from the ācāryas, from Bhagavad*-gītā itself-everywhere you will find the confirmation, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. It is not difficult. You simply take up the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and try to preach, yāre dekha tāre. Whomever you meet. You may remain as a businessman, you may remain whatever you are, you remain a family head, but instruct this advice of Kṛṣṇa-yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is our mission.



*So Kṛṣṇa, when... The instruction of Kṛṣṇa begins when Arjuna was very much perplexed, very much perplexed whether to fight. Because the other side was his brother, his nephews, his son*-in-law, his grandfather, his teacher. So when he saw in the battlefield all relatives, friends, and kinsmen, so he was perplexed. So Arjuna was very much compassionate that he practically said, "Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight." Then Arjuna also knew that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So my perplexity can be eradicated only by Kṛṣṇa." Therefore he submitted to Kṛṣṇa, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I am in great perplexity." Everyone is in great perplexity. There is no doubt. Anyone in this material world is full of anxiety and perplexity. So it is not only Arjuna's, I mean to say, problem. It is the problem of everyone. So if we want to solve the problems of life, we should accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme teacher. This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and Arjuna. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, now I am asking You to become my teacher." (aside:) Don't disturb. "I am asking You to become my teacher and solve my problem."

*So Kṛṣṇa, first of all He says that... Sañjaya uvāca. Sañjaya was explaining Bhagavad*-gītā before Dhṛtarāṣṭra.

evam uktvā hṛṣīkeśaṁ

guḍākeśaḥ parantapaḥ

na yotsya iti govindam

uktvā tūṣṇīṁ babhūva ha

[Bg. 2.9]



*So Sañjaya said that evam uktvā, "Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight," evam uktvā hṛṣīkeśam, "unto Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīkeśa means... Hṛṣīka means the senses, and īśa means the master. So we have got our senses. Everyone has got senses. The master is Kṛṣṇa. We are not the master. That we have to understand. I am speaking that "This is my hand," but if the power of the hand is withdrawn by Kṛṣṇa, we cannot act. We should understand this way, that none of our senses belong to us. It is given to us for proper use. Therefore, because it is given to us by the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, the master of the senses, it should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. This is bhakti*-yoga. We should know that "Although we have got all these senses, it has been given to us for use, but the senses do not belong to me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Bhakti means when we, you use your senses, hrsikena... Hrsikena means "by the senses"; *hṛṣīkeśam, "the master of the senses." Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa*-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate: "This is called bhakti." At the present moment, under the condition of material nature, we are using our senses for our sense gratification. That is called conditional stage. And we are becoming subjected to so many changes of circumstances in different bodies. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. We are creating a different situation by utilizing senses for our personal sense gratification, and we have become bound up, bound by the laws of nature. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yajñārthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. Karma-bandhana. Yajña. Yajña means Viṣṇu, yajña-puruṣa. If you work for Kṛṣṇa, then you are doing right; *otherwise you have become implicated. Yajñarthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma*-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. This is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā.



*Now, just like Arjuna. What is the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā? Arjuna is a fighter. Why? He's a soldier. He knew how to fight. That's all. He's not a Vedantist; he is not a brāhmaṇa; *he is not a sannyāsī. He is gṛhastha, householder. He appeared on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra for fighting on political reasons. So he knew all this business. But he utilized his talent in fighting art for Kṛṣṇa. He did not want to fight. As a Vaiṣṇava, he is very kind. He said that "My brothers, my cousins, certainly they have insulted my wife. They have taken my kingdom by gambling and so many devices. I know that. Still, because they are my brothers, I don't wish to kill them." This is Vaiṣṇava's attitude. But Kṛṣṇa, His business is yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. When there is injustice, it must be faced with fighting. That is Kṛṣṇa's version. So Arjuna, as a Vaiṣṇava, did not like to fight. But Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme mediator... That is also good for everything. Whatever Kṛṣṇa does, that is..., "God is good." There is nothing bad. So anyway, Arjuna, when he heard Bhagavad*-gītā very minutely, he was asked by Kṛṣṇa, "Now I have explained to you the Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge, the spiritual knowledge. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathecchasi tathā kuru: [Bg. 18.63] "Whatever you like... Now it is up to you. If you don't fight, that you can decide. I have no objection because you have little independence. But My advice is that you should fight. Now I ask you what you are going to do." So Arjuna replied that, naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat-prasādān madhusudana, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. "Now I shall do it." This is Bhagavad-gītā. This is bhakti, that we have to act according to the advice of the Supreme Lord. That is bhakti. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170].

So therefore we have to first of all establish our relationship with God. Your establish..., is already

*established. Just like the father and the son-the relationship is already there. It is not... But still, sometimes the son goes out of home and may be forgetting his father. Similarly, we are out of home. We have come from the spiritual world in this material world. We have forgotten our father. So we have to revive this relationship with our father, or God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is the main business of human life. In other species of life lower than the human being it is not possible to revive our old relationship with God. But in this life... Therefore this is the greatest opportunity. After all, we are under the grip of material nature's law. That is explained in there. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. According to our desire, we are creating a different type of body, and after death, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Just like the child is become a boy, the boy is becoming young man, the young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man. So what is next after the old body? The next is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: you have to accept another body. This is called chain or cycle of birth and death, or transmigration of the soul. This is going on. So if you want to... But nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to change this body. But this is a problem. One should know it. That is the first instruction given by Kṛṣṇa... [break] ...Arjuna, that we are changing. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So this is the opportunity, human life. If we want to stop this repetition of birth and death under different obligation and different circumstances, we should take instruction from Kṛṣṇa, try to understand Kṛṣṇa-that is Bhagavad-gītā*-and make our life successful so that... Understanding Kṛṣṇa means, as it is stated, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. We have come from God; *we again go back to God if we simply understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. This is the whole instruction of the Bhagavad*-gītā. And when Arjuna was perplexed that "How shall I kill the other side?" then Kṛṣṇa informed him in the beginning,

evam uktvā hṛṣīkeśaṁ

guḍākeśaḥ parantapaḥ

na yotsya iti govindam

uktvā tūṣṇīṁ babhūva ha

[Bg. 2.9]



"He completely became silent. 'Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight.' " Therefore,



tam uvāca hṛṣīkeśaḥ

prahasann iva bhārata

senayor ubhayor madhye

viṣīdantam idaṁ vacaḥ

[Bg. 2.10]



Then Kṛṣṇa was smiling, that "Arjuna is my friend, and he is so much overwhelmed with material consciousness of life." Therefore it is said, tam uvāca hṛṣīkeśaḥ prahasann: He was smiling, that "You are My friend. You should not have done like this." Prahasann iva bhārata senayor ubhayor madhye: "Between the two parties of soldiers," viṣīdantam, "he was lamenting."



So because Kṛṣṇa was accepted as the teacher, as the master, so He is chastising Arjuna.

*śrī*-bhagavān uvāca

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

[Bg. 2.11]



nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ



*"My dear Arjuna, you talk very much just like a learned man." Prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase. Prajñā-vādāṁs means talking just like a learned man. "Unfortunately, you are not a learned man because you are lamenting on this body." He said, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ: "Anyone who is learned, he does not lament over this body whether in living position or dead position. So you are talking like a learned man, but you are not a learned man." This is the first instruction. Because Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, He chastised him with little hard words, that "You are not a paṇḍita." Now, you just consider what is the position of this world. Everyone is taking care of this body. But Kṛṣṇa said, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The paṇḍitāḥ, one who is learned, he knows that he is not this body. He is soul. So our first business is to take care of the soul. And this is the opportunity, this human form of body. In the human form of body we can understand Bhagavad-gītā, not in the dog's body. That is not possible. So by evolution, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, from aquatics to trees, plants, then insects, then birds, then beast, then human being, then civilized human being... In this civilized form of human being, if we do not take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā personally given by the Lord Himself, then we are missing the point. This is the whole Vedic literature's lesson, that human form of life is meant for self-realization: "I am not this body. I am soul. I am spirit soul. My business is different from simply taking care of the body." This is human civilization. So therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement. We request everyone to study this movement very seriously and make one's life successful. And what is that success? Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa... And Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. When I speak of Kṛṣṇa, everyone should know that Kṛṣṇa means God. So if we try to understand simply Kṛṣṇa, or God, in this life, then we become liberated. We become free from this material bondage. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is the assurance given in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa... Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Now, in truth you should understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. And there is no difficulty. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So our only request is that you, all of you, you try to understand Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. Don't interpret in a different way. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you become free from this material bondage, no more accepting... Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body, that is certain. The cats and dogs will also give up their body, we'll have also give... But before giving up this body, if we simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then our life becomes successful. What is that success? That after giving up this body we are not going to accept anything, our material body. Then we stand in our original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is there within the body. That will be explained very nicely. So we... Our mission is to come to the platform of our spiritual body. It is very simple, simply by understanding the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made it still simplified. What is that? He advises, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra."

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

[Cc. Ādi 17.21]



*In this age, as we are fallen, so the method is also given very simplified. It is confirmed in the śāstras, in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam also, that kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asmin hy eko mahān guṇaḥ, that this time, this Kali, this age... This is called Kali age, misunderstanding and fighting. So in this age there are so many faults in the human society. It is just like ocean. Kaler doṣa-nidhe. Nidhi means the ocean. Doṣa-nidhi, fault, ocean of fault. Doṣa-nidhe rājann. "There is one great opportunity." What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet: [SB 12.3.51] "If one takes to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra," kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya, "then mukta-saṅga, he becomes liberated," and paraṁ vrajet, "he becomes eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead." So these things are there. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is only to give you information, just like a peon delivers the letter from a friend. He has nothing to do. So we are trying to deliver the message of Kṛṣṇa to you. You kindly accept it and utilize it.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Indian man (1): Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma. In the name of God. I feel it is my duty to... [break]



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question is, "Why should one pray to God?"



Prabhupāda: Our prayer is, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught,



*ayi nanda*-tanuja kiṅkaraṁ

patitaṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau

*kṛpayā tava pāda*-paṅkaja

*sthita*-dhūlī-sadṛśaṁ vicintaya

[Cc. Antya 20.32, Śikṣāṣṭaka 5]



*Just like if you are in danger, you ask your friends to help you. This is prayer. So our prayer is, to Kṛṣṇa, ayi nanda*-tanuja. Nanda-tanuja means... Kṛṣṇa appeared as the foster son of Nanda Mahārāja; *therefore He is addressed as nanda*-tanuja, means "the son of Mahārāja Nanda." So patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau. "I am your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean of nescience, ignorance." Just like if you are a person of the land, if you are thrown in the ocean, it is struggle for existence. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. This is struggle for exis... Everyone is struggling. But what you will struggle in the ocean? You may be a very big swimmer, but how long you shall swim? You will be tired. The only means is to take you out of the ocean. Even one inch above the ocean is your safety. It doesn't matter how many inches you are taken from the ocean. Similarly, the prayer is, "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I am your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean. Please pick me up and fix me again as the dust of Your lotus feet." This is the prayer. So we should know in what dangerous position we are. Then there is necessity of prayer. And prayer to whom? To the Supreme Person to save us. Therefore there are so many prayers in the śāstra. Prayers means addressing the Lord to save us from this. The real saving is to pick us up from this ocean of nescience, ignorance. Then everything is all right. As soon as we come to the knowledge that "I am not this body; *I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God," then our knowledge is perfect. This is called brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. This is called Brahman realization.



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



So prayer is needed because we are in danger. And actually we pray when we are in great danger. Suppose if immediately there is some earthquake or there is some danger, naturally, spontaneously, we pray. We pray. But we forget it. But the prayer, the tendency of offering prayer to the Lord at the time of danger, is automatic. So we should know that we are in danger. We are in this material condition of life means we are in danger. Therefore we should pray. We must pray to pick him up, to pick us up. That is necessity of prayer.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are there any questions?



Indian man (2): Swamijī, I would like to know from you whether or not it is necessary for a person to be a vegetarian or to have a special diet to be able to respond to the..., your teachings...



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He would like to know whether it is necessary for one to be a vegetarian or not in order to respond or understand the teachings.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if you want to be Kṛṣṇa conscious-that is the whole teaching-you have to act according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So vegetarian or not vegetarian, it is not a very important thing. Either you eat meat or vegetable, both of them have got life. That is the nature's way. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One life has to eat another life. That is nature's law. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he does not anymore eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We take prasādam. Whatever is offered to Kṛṣṇa, we take that. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati tad aham aśnāmi [Bg. 9.26]. So just like if you ask some guest at your home, you will ask him, "What you shall eat, sir? What can I offer you?" Similarly, when you invite Kṛṣṇa to your home or to your temple, you should prepare foodstuff according to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, not according to your whims. So Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: "Anyone who offers Me patraṁ"*-that is vegetable-"puṣpaṁ"-vegetable-"and liquid things like milk, water..." And you can prepare so many other things from vegetables. If you offer to Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam, then you are free. That is, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. If you accept foodstuff which is offered for yajña-yajña means acceptance by Kṛṣṇa-then you are free from sinful life. Otherwise you are responsible. Either you eat meat or vegetable, it doesn't matter.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are there any more questions?



Prabhupāda: No. One man once.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There are many other people who would like to ask questions.



Prabhupāda: Others should be given opportunity.



Indian man (3): I would like to have this question. Why should one accept this Kṛṣṇa as God?



Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. We have to accept the Vedic evidence. So the Vedic evidence establishes kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Otherwise you have no opportunity to understand what is God. Then, if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as God, then present somebody else who is God and whether he is satisfying the definition of God. So considering the Vedic evidences, authorities, we have to accept Kṛṣṇa as God. And when He was present on this planet, He proved that He is God. Then we have no other alternative than to accept Kṛṣṇa as God.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Any other questions? Yes.



*Indian man (4): With the present state of the world as it is-it seems to be in a pretty mess*-what would you say we are actually advancing spiritually?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "With the present state of the world, in the present mess that it's in today, would you say that we are advancing spiritually?"



Prabhupāda: No. Practically, the present state of the world means without any spiritual knowledge. We are blind; therefore it is very dangerous position. The spiritual knowledge we must have; otherwise we are doomed.



*Indian man (5): Master, I wish to inquire. From the ancient Vedic scripture of the Vedas, we learn that God is and He cannot be seen. However, in the Bhagavad*-gītā we learn that Lord Kṛṣṇa is born as a human. Now, does this not work conflict to the ancient scriptures of the Vedic religion?



*Prabhupāda: Therefore, in the Bhagavad*-gītā you will find that you have to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. If we simply see that Kṛṣṇa is born or He has taken His birth as a human being, that is not sufficient study of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says His birth and activities are transcendental. Janma karma me divyam. So that you have to study, divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who understands what is Kṛṣṇa's birth... His birth and my birth is not the same. That means you have to study the subject matter very scientifically. Then you will understand that although Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, still, He maintains His position as God. That is real understanding. Unless you understand this fact, you will misunderstand Him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then you become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply superficial study will not help you. Then you have to study to become a serious student of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and study Him. Then you will understand. Otherwise, superficially, we cannot understand.



Woman: Swamijī, would you say that the soul is locked in the third eye?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The soul is what?



Harikeśa: Locked in the third eye.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Locked in the third eye. She's asking if the soul is locked in the third eye.



*Prabhupāda: Locked? What does it mean locked? Soul is not locked. Soul, for temporarily, is embodied according to the soul's desire. There are 8,400,000 forms of body, and as we are desiring, the material nature is supplying the body. It is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*Yantrārūḍhāni. Yantra means machine. So Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. That is all*-pervading. And He knows what the soul wants, so He is given the opportunity. As he wants to work, he is given a particular type of body, machine, yantra. Yantra means machine. And he is seated there, and in this way he is wandering in different species of life and different planets for different times. That is going on. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. So if we stop this business, if we hear Kṛṣṇa-sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]-then our life is successful. Otherwise we shall continue to change this yantra, one yantra to another, another, another. This is going on. So practically the soul is not locked up, but intentionally he wants some position. And Kṛṣṇa is very kind. God is very kind. He is giving the opportunity: "All right, you want like this? Do it like that."



*Indian man (5): Swamijī? Are we (indistinct) to believe in that by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa that we can attain a higher conscious level on this earth and attain self*-realization without going through all the rigors of the old Vedas, scriptures?



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question is, "Are you saying that simply by chanting the holy names, Hare Kṛṣṇa, that you can do without all of the other instructions which are in the older *Vedas*?"



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the special concession for the conditioned soul of this age, that if you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, then your heart will be purified. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Then everything will be revealed. This is special concession. So you can see it. All these students coming, joining this movement all over the world, they are beginning, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and gradually they are becoming purified and taking this consciousness very seriously. You can see it.



Indian man (1): Oṁ. Oṁ. [break]



*Indian man (6): ...explain the ways of pāpa*-nirvāṇam.



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Pāpa*-nirvāṇam.



*Prabhupāda: Pāpa. Yes. Pāpa. I understand. Pāpa... First of all, we have to know what is pāpa. Just like in ordinary way, in ignorance we commit something unlawful. Just like in this country it is said, "Keep to the left," and some other country it is said that "Keep to the right." Say, Americans, they "Keep to the right." Now, in this country, if instead of keeping to the left, if he keeps to the right, then he becomes punishable. So this is due to ignorance. So pāpa means in ignorance. So if you become in knowledge, there is no more pāpa. So if you understand what is God, what you are, what is your relationship with God, and if you act accordingly, there is no pāpa. This is pāpa*-nirvāṇa, no more pāpa. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:



*śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*puṇya-śravaṇa*-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

[SB 1.2.17]



*If you simply hear Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad*-gītā, then gradually you become free from all sinful reaction of life. That is pāpa-nirvāṇa. This is very simple thing. That's all.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to take any more questions, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: One more.



Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One more question.



*Indian man (7): Swamijī, I got a disturbing mind. I would like to clear my mind. We understand that according to the Lord's creation, apart from this planet, there are many other planets which is called the universe. And as such, being created by the Lord, I'm sure He has given His right in a way of knowledge to understand Him. Now, if Kṛṣṇa conscious, as we understand in this part of the world, then I am sure it should be in the other part of the world as well. So I don't know, Swamijī, what is the position, knowing that we are living in this part of the world, or this planet, what could be the other part of the planet which is called the universes. I was just reading today the Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is. I don't expect that I will be able to bring about this bit of the Gītā that I read in a question form, because Lord... In the Gītā itself it says that Arjuna presaged(?) to Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Tenth Chapter, verse thirteen and fourteen, where He mentions that He is supreme, He is the ultimate, He is abode, place of residence of His, He is purified, eternal, primal God and so on, transcendental, original, and unborn. Now, Swamijī, I would like to know, being unborn, then how come that Lord Kṛṣṇa was born as a human being or brought Himself to that position to form Himself as the Supreme Being? I would like this answer to be given. Thank you.



*Prabhupāda: If you have read Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, you can see that Kṛṣṇa was not born. Kṛṣṇa appeared before Devakī and Vasudeva as four-handed Nārāyaṇa. Then the father, mother requested Nārāyaṇa that "You have appeared as Nārāyaṇa. Immediately Kaṁsa will kill You. Please, You become like human child." So He again immediately became a human child. So the conception of birth from the womb of the mother was not actually the fact about Kṛṣṇa. You read Bhāgavatam. You will find this description. So even though if He comes as a child, still He is unborn because Kṛṣṇa, or God, is in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So from the heart, if He comes before you, so is it very difficult task for Him? It is not at all difficult. [break] What to speak of Kṛṣṇa, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; *we do not take birth. You will find in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā. When the description of soul is given there, it is said that the soul is never born. If the soul is never born, how the Supersoul is born? That you have to understand. Even the soul... We are ordinary soul. We are not..., also not born. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "At any time." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So we have to study this. We have to learn this. Superficially understanding will not help us. You have to become a serious student. That is wanted. And so far Kṛṣṇa is speaking, He is speaking for all living entities. It is not that He is speaking for India or for the Hindus or for this planet or that planet. He is speaking for everyone. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ [Bg. 14.4]. Kṛṣṇa says, "In all forms of life, all the living entities, I am..." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "I am the supreme father." So Kṛṣṇa does not speak for any particular section or any particular country or any particular religion. It is for everyone. And so far we are concerned, that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā:



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*mad*-yājino 'pi yānti mām

[Bg. 9.25]



*Now, in this human form of life you can select where you will go next. If you want to go to the higher planetary system, so you can go there. Yānti deva*-vratā devān. The higher planetary... Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. You qualify yourself. So if you qualify yourself to go to the higher planetary system, you can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān. And if you qualify yourself to go back to home, back to Godhead, that also you can do. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So if you become a pure devotee, then you go to Kṛṣṇa. That is up to you to make your selection. And this human form of body is meant for that purpose. If you don't utilize it for our next elevation, then you are committing suicide. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to inform you. That's all. Thank you very much. Let us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





751206LE.VRN

Lecture Excerpt

-

Vṛndāvana, December 6, 1975



Prabhupāda: Etāṁ sa āsthāya? Next?



*Akṣayānanda: Parātma*-niṣṭhām?



*Prabhupāda: Parātma*-niṣṭhām. This sannyāsa life means simply devoted to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no other business. We have got, according to our varṇāśrama system, varṇa and āśrama: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and āśrama, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. As we were discussing, viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpaṇam. The whole system is how to approach the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. So this is the last ceremonial performance. Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām. Parātma-niṣṭhām, Viṣṇu, to keep firm faith in Him. So it is not a new thing. Pūrvatamair upāsitāṁ mahadbhiḥ. Before us there were so many exalted ācāryas-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, and, in our line, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So our process is to follow the predecessor ācārya. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. That is the way. So although you are young men-there are many difficulties to keep sannyāsa-but if you keep faith, full faith in Kṛṣṇa, the māyā will not be able to touch you. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā is very strong, but if we-mām eva ye prapadyante-if we keep ourself fully surrendered unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, māyā will not be able to counteract this process.



*So you should always keep yourself fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not very difficult. Strictly follow the rules and regulation and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra as many times... For a sannyāsī, you should increase. Then you will be fixed up. And go on preaching. Preaching is also not very difficult, because you haven't got to manufacture anything. Everything is there, and it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also took sannyāsa very early age, twenty-four years old only. So He has practically shown by His activities how to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. And He gives order to everyone, āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "In whichever country you may live*-it doesn't matter-try to deliver them by becoming their guru." The sannyāsa is supposed to be guru of all other divisions, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha. Sannyāsa is the topmost stage. So if you become guru, teacher, remembering the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then you will never fall down. He will save you. And how one becomes guru? That is also very easy. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You haven't got to manufacture anything. Simply you try to repeat the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣṇa upadeśa. Not only Bhagavad-gītā; *there are many other instructions. Especially Bhagavad-gītā. So if you simply carry the message of Bhagavad-gītā, then you become guru. Don't manufacture anything. Then it will be spoiled. Simply stick primarily... Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. You can, everyone can, say this. Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me." So you can repeat only. You can say to others, "My dear sir, please think of Kṛṣṇa." It doesn't require very much education. Simply just like a peon carry the message: "Sir, you always think of Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā. Then you become guru. If you follow it strictly*-you also think of Kṛṣṇa yourself, and you teach others, "My dear sir, my only request is that you think of Kṛṣṇa"-nobody will kill you. Everyone will... If he doesn't follow, he will appreciate you: "Oh, these sannyāsīs are very nice. They are advising to think of Kṛṣṇa." Then you become guru. Simple thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. And anyone who thinks of Kṛṣṇa, gradually he becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "You worship Me." Here is the temple, and anyone can worship Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is satisfied simply with a little flower and little water. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. It is not expensive. Anyone can bring little flower, little fruit, little tulasī leaf, and offer to Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ namaskuru. If you cannot do anything, simply offer your obeisances: "Kṛṣṇa, I am so poor, I cannot even secure a little fruit, flower, and water." That is not possible. Everyone can secure this patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam and offer to Kṛṣṇa and offer your obeisances.

*So you have to teach only these things. Where is the difficulty? You do it personally and teach them. Then you become guru. It doesn't require to learn big, big, I mean to say, grantha like Vedānta. This is not possible in this Kali-yuga. If possible, you can study Vedānta and other. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us... When Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī inquired from Him that "You are a sannyāsī. You are not studying Vedānta, and simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. What kind of sannyāsī You are?"*-this question was put by Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī to Caitanya Mahāprabhu-Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, "My dear sir, I am a great fool." Guru more mūrkha dekhi karila śāsana: [Cc. Ādi 7.71] "My guru saw Me a great fool number one; *therefore he has chastised Me." What is that? That " 'You cannot read Vedānta. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' So my Guru Mahārāja has ordered Me like that. But by chanting only, I get ecstasy, I realize, like that." So the idea is Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a mūrkha, fool. He is God Himself. And besides that, even in His līlā, pastimes as human being, He was a great learned scholar. His name was Nimāi Paṇḍita. He was not ordinary. He's paṇḍita. His education is proved when He explained ātmārāma śloka in sixty*-four ways.

ātmārāmāś ca munayo

nirgranthā apy urukrame

kurvanty ahaitukīṁ bhaktim

*ittham*-bhūta-guṇo hariḥ



*This one verse He explained in sixty*-four ways. Just see His learning. Not only that, when He was sixteen years old only, a great paṇḍita came to Navadvīpa. His name was Keśava Kāśmīrī. He conquered over all parts of the country..., India at least, because there was no possibility to go outside India. But He defeated him in one śloka when He was a boy. So He was not a fool, rascal. That is not the fact. But He represented Himself as a fool because we are fools. In this age we are all fools and rascals. What we shall read Vedānta and understand Vedānta? We have got practical experience how the so-called Vedāntists go to foreign countries and mislead them, and they learn how to eat meat and wine. This is their Vedānta knowledge. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew it very well that all the rascals, they will call them vedānti and do all nonsense. So don't become falsely a vedānti. Real vedānti means vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. If you simply know Kṛṣṇa and surrender unto Him, then you become a vedanti, real vedanti. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15].



So always keep... This kind of duty was entrusted by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to the Indians.

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that every Indian should learn what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and preach it all over the world. That is His order. But our Indians are not taking care of it. Therefore it doesn't matter, Indian, or European or American, who will carry the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He will be benefited. He will be glorified. So don't be hesitating, because the soul is neither Indian or American. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Every one of us, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and our position is Brahman. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. So from that platform you go on preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By executing the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you will be glorified, the country will be glorified, the whole world will benefit.



Thank you very much. (end)



751217LE.BOM

Lecture Engagement at Birla House

-

Bombay, December 17, 1975



Prabhupāda:



śrī prahlāda uvāca

kaumāram ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha



(aside:) You can give some stand. How long he will stand?



durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam



*This is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja to his class friend. Prahlāda Mahārāja was born of Hiraṇyakaśipu, great demon. He is described as demon because he was interested only in material comforts. Hiraṇya means gold, gold and very comfortable situation of material life. He was interested in that, and he wanted to teach his son about this economic development. But Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was in the womb of his mother... There was fight between the demons and the demigods, so the demons*-sometimes when there is fight, sometimes one party is victorious, sometimes the other party is victorious-so the demigods' party became victorious, and they were harassing the demons like anything. So Hiraṇyakaśipu's wife, she was pregnant, she was captured by Indra, the King of heaven, and she was being dragged to take her in the house of Indra. In the way, Nārada Muni met them; he chastised Indra. Nārada Muni was devarṣi, ṛṣi amongst the demigods. So he said, "Why you are giving trouble to this woman? This is not good." So the demons replied, demigods replied that "This woman is pregnant, and there is Hiraṇyakaśipu's son. So we want to kill that son also, because he is demon. So we are taking this woman to our place just to wait for the time of her delivering the child." At that time Nārada Muni said, "No, no. This child is not a demon child. This child who is within the womb of this woman, he is a great devotee, so don't try to kill him. Neither you can kill him, that is not possible." So they are demigods, they accepted Nārada Muni's proposal. So they offered respect to the woman, that "Here is, within the womb of this woman, a great devotee." So they circumambulated and offered respect to the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu and they went away. So Nārada Muni took the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu to his āśrama: "My dear girl, my dear daughter, you please come with me, remain with me till your husband comes back." So she agreed, and woman's natural propensity is to serve, so she was very nicely serving Nārada Muni, and Nārada Muni became very much pleased and he instructed about transcendental knowledge. Although to the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, but still the Hiraṇyakaśipu's son Prahlāda Mahārāja was within the womb, he also heard the instruction and he learnt everything. Later on he will explain that "My mother, on account of being woman, she has forgotten the instruction of Nārada, but I heard it even from within the womb; I remember it."



So this Prahlāda Mahārāja is repeating the same instruction which he heard from Nārada Muni when he was packed up within the womb. So this is one of the instruction, that spiritual instruction does not depend on any material condition. In any position one can understand spiritual instruction. Ahaituky apratihatā yena ātmā samprasīdati.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yena ātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



*That is first*-class religion, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo [SB 1.2.6]. Parā means supreme. There are different types of religion, but the supreme religion is parā dharma, that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, that religious system which instructs the followers how to become a perfect devotee of the Supreme Lord. That is first-class religion. We are fighting in this material world. "You are Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Sikh," "I am Jain," "I am this," "I am that," but this not paro dharma; *this is aparo dharma. Parā and aparā, there are two qualities, just like material and spiritual. Material is called aparā, and spiritual means parā, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, apareyam.



bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca

bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



*These material elements-earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, and false ego-these are eight material elements, out of which five are gross-bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyu*-and three are very subtle. Just like everyone: I know you think with your mind; you know also I think with my mind. But mind is subtle. I cannot see your mind, neither you can see my mind, neither I can see my mind, nor you can see your mind. This is subtle. And the finer than the mind is intelligence, and finer than the intelligence is egoism or egotism, and finer than egotism is the soul.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is little difficult for ordinary persons who are interested with the material gross and subtle elements. For them it is little difficult. But Kṛṣṇa says apareyam, "This is inferior, these energies." They are energies, prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. Prakṛti means energy, just like prakṛti means woman, naturally a woman is under the control of the man. That is our Vedic system, and natural system also. However, the woman may claim equal rights, they are under the control of the man. That is natural. So similarly prakṛti means which is under the control of the Supreme Lord. That is prakṛti. In another place, Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivarate

[Bg. 9.10]



*Kṛṣṇa says mayādhyakṣeṇa: "Under My control the material nature is working." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ. In another place in Brahma*-saṁhitā it is said how prakṛti is under the control of the Supreme Lord: sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā is the material nature. It is very powerful. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti, creation, maintenance and annihilation, is going on under her control, Durgā-devī. We have seen the picture of Durgā, ten hands with ten kinds of weapons. So she is very powerful, but still she is under the control of Govinda.



*sṛṣṭi*-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.44]



The mūla prakṛti, the original prakṛti, is fully under the control. Control means she acts according to the direction of Govinda. Yasya ajñayā, she is acting. So this prakṛti is inferior prakṛti, and there is another, superior prakṛti. That superior prakṛti is represented by Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī and Durgā, both of them are prakṛtis of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but one prakṛti is meant for controlling this material world, and the other prakṛti is meant for blessing the spiritual world. Two prakṛtis are Kṛṣṇa's prakṛti. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,



apareyam itas tu (anyaṁ)

viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā

*jīva*-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

[Bg. 7.5]



*So this jīva*-bhūta, living entities, we are living entities, we also belong to the spiritual prakṛti, we are expansion of spiritual prakṛti. Just like Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is always engaged in the service of the Lord, anārādhyate. Ārādhyate, it is Rādhārāṇī. The Rādhārāṇī, the name has come from the word ārādhyate. Ārādhana, ārādhana means worshiping. So everyone is meant, beginning from Rādhārāṇī, and her expansion, Lakṣmī, in Vaikuṇṭha, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.29]. Here we worship mother Lakṣmīji, goddess of fortune, to receive some favor. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there are many hundred thousands of Lakṣmī, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata, and they are sambhrama-sevyamānam: with great respect, they are engaged in serving the Supreme Lord. So, we being expansion of the spiritual Lakṣmī, or Rādhārāṇī, our duty is to serve Rādhārāṇī, and through Rādhārāṇī to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are missing this point, that instead of learning from Rādhārāṇī how to serve Kṛṣṇa, we are being controlled by the another prakṛti, material energy, Durgā, with weapons in her ten hands. This is our position. Therefore we are missing the point, and it is said in Brahma-saṁhitā..., no, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... This is also spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja:



*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa*-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



*So in this material world they do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatim. Everyone is very much expert to see his interest. Two businessmen, they are agreeing, but everyone is trying to see his personal interest first. This is called svārtha-gatim. That is natural. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. Unfortunately, these materialistic persons, they do not know what is his real interest. The real interest is Viṣṇu, how to serve Viṣṇu.



That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the beginning. Sanātana Gosvāmī, a great minister of Nawab Hussein Shah's government, he retired from his ministerial activities and became a servant of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The six Goswamis of Vṛndāvana:

*śrī*-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raguṇath

*śrī*-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raguṇatha



*So there are many description about their activities in Vṛndāvana. Some of them are described by Śrīnivāsa Ācārya. The prime duty was, these Gosvāmīs, they were ministers, big, big zamindars. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was the only one son of his father and uncle, and in those days, five hundred years ago, their paternal income was twelve lakhs of rupees. So such person joined Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa*-raguṇatha. Either they were very, very learned scholar or coming from very, very rich family, big post, all the six Goswamis.



*śrī*-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha

*śrī*-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha



*So their business was, these Gosvāmīs, kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau: they were always engaged in chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is the real purpose of human life, especially in this age. It is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to Parīkṣit Mahārāja by Śukadeva Goswami, he described the symptoms of Kali-yuga: it is very, very faulty. But he concluded that kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. In this age of Kali it is very fallen age, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. The population in this age, they are, almost all of them they are manda-manda means bad or very slow-so they do not understand what is the aim of life, or very slow to understand; *therefore they are called manda. And because they do not understand their real interest of life, they can be called very bad, manda. So these are the symptoms: mandāḥ sumanda*-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. So in this age, although it is so fallen, the śāstra says, doṣa-nidhe rājann, kalau doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. There is one great opportunity. What is that great opportunity? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. If one takes to chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then he becomes relieved or freed from the all contamination of this age, and mukta-saṅgaḥ, he becomes liberated and he goes back to home, back to Godhead. Simply by chanting. That is mukti. Mukti means, we are now under the influence of this material energy, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], this is aparā prakṛti. So aparā prakṛti, we have to give up the association of the aparā prakṛti, and we have to take shelter of parā prakṛti. This is our aim of life. The subject matter was how to become successful in life. That we are trying to explain. The success is that we have to give up the control, we have to become freed from the control of the aparā prakṛti, and we shall voluntarily submit to be favored by parā prakṛti. This is our business, aim of life. Then our life will be successful. If we miss this opportunity to give up the shelter of aparā prakṛti, and do not take shelter of the parā prakṛti, then we are missing the opportunity. It is very subtle thing, there is no education, but the information and the enlightenment is there in our śāstra. In Bhagavad-gītā everything is explained, how one can give up the control of the aparā prakṛti and be under the shelter of parā prakṛti.



daivī hi eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

[Bg. 7.14]



It is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa comes to instruct this simple truth, that "You are being controlled by the material energy. You give up this business; you be controlled by the spiritual energy, and your life is successful." This is the method. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.



So we are..., our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for this purpose, that simply we are trying to educate people how to give up the control of the material energy, and under the control... Not to control the material energy; *that we cannot do, that is not possible. But not to become under the control. That is very simple method: mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Just like if you become honest, if you are not criminal, then there is no police control*-police may be there. But as soon as you become criminal, you come under the control of police. Similarly our business is, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained, and everywhere in the śāstra, and actually we are so, we are eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. This is our real position. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. But our disease is instead of becoming dāsa, we are trying to become the master of the prakṛti. This is called materialistic way of life. So that will not make us happy at any stage of our life. This is very dangerous. We are missing the point.

*na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

*durāśayā ye bahir*-artha-māninaḥ

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

*te 'pīśa tantryām uru*-dāmni baddhāḥ

[SB 7.5.31]



We are forgetting that we are absolutely under the control of the material nature.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



We are fully under the control of material nature, and foolishly, ahaṅkāra, on account of being bewildered by false egotism, we are thinking that "I am independent." This is called material illusion.



*So our first business is to understand what is this material world, what is the spiritual world, what is God, what is my relationship with Him, and how to execute the business of my life, to become successful in this human form of life. The success of human form of life is to understand this thing: our relationship with God. And we should act in relationship with God. Then our success of life will be achieved. This is the main purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is a very profound subject matter to understand, but everything is explained. Our only request is that you read Bhagavad*-gītā as it is; *don't try to interpret. That is useless. Otherwise why people have lost in India their own culture? Because they have interpreted wrongly. Every śāstra has been interpreted wrongly and therefore people are misguided. They could not take advantage of the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā because all through, the Bhagavad-gītā has been misinterpreted. So many so-called politicians, scholars, but it is maybe for the first time*-not first time; *it is there-but to make it broad propaganda wide, that try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any interpretation. That is our mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Don't try to interpret and spoil it. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Ei deśa means, He was born in Bengal, India*-it may be Bengal or in India-He, we have interested with every man all over the world,

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra hoibe mora nāma



*So He was interested in all the parts of the world, how they can be delivered from the clutches of this material energy. So He wished especially the Indians to take this job of preaching the teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā all over the world. He wanted it.



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma hoila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari karo para*-upakāra



*This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para*-upakāra. It is not the business of the Indian people to exploit others. The mission is they must be very, very merciful to all outsiders, born in, out of India. That is India's mission. Because they are in darkness, they do not know. So instead of enlightenment, giving them jyotir gamaḥ-tamasi mā: "Don't remain in darkness"-so we are imitating them. This is not India's good fortune. We should not imitate. That is not very good civilization. That is, this has been described as asuric civilization in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu: they do not know. Anyway, although they do not know, they are accepting now. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so potential that they are accepting, that is upakāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted this, para upakāra. They are in darkness, tamasi. Bring them in the light: tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ.



*So this attempt has been done by us individually, with teeny effort, but it is becoming successful. But if we take up seriously this movement, every one of us become completely aware of this movement and take this mission as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Every one of you, you become a guru," by the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So "I shall become guru? What shall I do? I do not know anything." No! You haven't got to know anything. You simply, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa. You simply repeat the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā. Whomever you meet, you try to convince him; *then you are guru. So our mission is this, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. We are trying to execute the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We don't say anything else except what is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Simple thing. It is not very difficult thing. Kṛṣṇa says, "Always think of Me." Is it very difficult task? No. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you remember Kṛṣṇa immediately. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So always remember Kṛṣṇa, this is Kṛṣṇa's instruction, man-manā, "Always think of Me," mad-bhakta, and naturally you become bhakta. As soon as you go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, just like these European and American boys, they have been instructed to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... Don't think that I showed them any magic, how to manufacture gold, or how to become this or that. No. Simply I have asked them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they have joined me because they have chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why? Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. By chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, the dirty things within the heart will be cleansed. They you will understand what is my position, what to do.

*So this is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yāre dekha tāre kaha, Kṛṣṇa said that man*-manā bhava mad-bhakta: "You just think of Me, you just become My devotee, mad-yājī, you just offer a little flower and water to Me." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. If you think that "We have got money. The money is for my enjoyment, and Kṛṣṇa may be offered a little water and flower," that is cheating; *that is not good. According to your position you must worship. This is wanted. Otherwise, bita (indistinct). If you have got money and if you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, and you serve Kṛṣṇa with a little water and flower, Kṛṣṇa can understand this kind of cheating business. No. Everyone should worship Kṛṣṇa according to his position. That is wanted. Kuruṣva tad mad*-arpaṇam. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam [Bg. 9.27]. To become very big businessman is not ordinary thing; *it requires tapasya, very great labour, brain, yat tapasyasi. But the result, Kṛṣṇa says, kuruṣva tad mad*-arpaṇam, He's asking, "Give it to Me." So there is no harm to become very big businessman, earning money. That is all right-but you give it to Kṛṣṇa. Then in any position you can remain Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will understand Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjaṁ mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*Kṛṣṇa is explaining that everyone is trying to understand God, but by speculation you cannot understand. By service only you can understand. By attachment. You cannot serve Kṛṣṇa without being attached. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Seventh Chapter, mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ: "Taking shelter of Me, or My devotee, if you practice this yoga system, bhakti-yoga system, increasing your attachment for Me, this is wanted." Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we have got attachment so many things, but that attachment has to be transferred to Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ asaṁśayam. Then asaṁśayam, without any doubt. To understand God there are three features: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So the ordinary person, they can be able to understand Brahman; a little advanced than them, they can understand Paramātmā; *but to understand Kṛṣṇa is very difficult. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many millions of persons, one tries to become siddha, perfect. What is that siddha? Brahma*-jña. Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3]. And out of the siddhas, those who are actually self-realized, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, out of many of them maybe one is able to understand Kṛṣṇa.



*So Kṛṣṇa can be understood only by devotion. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. So we have to take this process, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu. So our only request is that to understand Kṛṣṇa is not very difficult if we read Bhagavad*-gītā perfectly, seriously. Then Kṛṣṇa is understood. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa... Because Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, what is the difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa? Hm? If you, Mr. Birla, you explain that "I am like this. I have got so much money, I have got so many business, I have got so many factories," if you explain, then where is my difficulty? But if I speculate, "Mr. Birla may be..., so much (indistinct) may be had." That is always imperfect. But if you understand directly from Mr. Birla, then it is clear. So Kṛṣṇa, God, is explaining Himself, "I am like..." Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1]. So there is not very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa if we simply... But if we interpret foolishly, and try to understand Kṛṣṇa by misinterpretation, then the business is finished. Don't do that. Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is explaining Himself, then your life is successful. How it is successful?

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

[Bg. 4.9]



*That is successful. If one can understand Kṛṣṇa, about His activities, why He comes, He explains, yadā yadā hi dharmasya [Bg. 4.7], [break] ...change this body. But we do not know what kind of body I am going to get. These information are there. But any kind of body you get, even in the higher planetary system as demigod, ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16], that is not good. The best thing is you get a body, a spiritual body, like Kṛṣṇa, sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... [Bg. 4.9]. Then you haven't got to accept any more this material body. Then what happens to me? Mām eti, you come to Kṛṣṇa and enjoy with Him. That is success of life.



Thank you very much.



Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda!



Prabhupāda: Any questions?



Girirāja: Any questions? (long silence)



Prabhupāda: Boliya mātājī. Prāśna boliya? There should be question. (another long silence)



Girirāja: The process of hearing and then asking questions is the way to clarify our understanding, just like Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. So actually we must have some questions in our minds; otherwise we would all immediately surrender to Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Either you surrender to Kṛṣṇa or clear it by question. (end)





751225LE.SAN

Lecture with Translator

-

Sanand, December 25, 1975



Prabhupāda: So if you have to translate, why not translate from English? That will be easier for me, and they will also understand. Tike? If he has to translate, then why not let me speak in English so that they will also understand?



Indian man: I will translate.



*Prabhupāda: So Bhagavān means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Absolute Truth is realized in three phases: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. Absolute Truth can be realized in the beginning as impersonal Brahman, which is the objective of the jñānīs, and next, Paramātmā, which is the objective of the yogis, and at last, the last word in the absolute understanding is person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Ultimate issue is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just like we understand that in the sun globe there is the Supreme Person or the sūrya*-nārāyaṇa, or the chief person within the sun planet. His name is also given in the Bhagavad-gītā-Vivasvān. The Lord says in the Fourth Chapter, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [Bg. 4.1] "I first of all explained this science, this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā, to Vivasvān, the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāhur manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt. And Vivasvān, the sun-god, he explained to Manu, and Manu explained to his son. In this way, by the disciplic succession the knowledge has come down. So when we speak of jñāna, knowledge, it must be learned from a person. So Bhagavān, the last word in the understanding of Absolute Truth, He says in this Bhagavad-gītā.



*So Vyāsadeva specifically means here, bhagavān uvāca. He does not say kṛṣṇa uvāca, because sometimes Kṛṣṇa is misunderstood by the fools. So bhagavān uvāca, this word, means whatever He says, there is no defect or deficiencies. For ordinary person like us there are four defects: bhrama pramāda vipralipsā kara-ṇāpāṭava. Vipralipsā, cheating. Vipralipsā, cheating. So in the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa or self*-realized person, servants of Kṛṣṇa, those who have understood Kṛṣṇa, for them there are no deficiencies. They are perfect. For this reason Kṛṣṇa gives the instruction,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*One who has actually seen or actually realized the truth, you have to take knowledge from there. So we have to approach such person. Otherwise, if we approach some speculator, we cannot get real knowledge. So those who are speculators, they cannot understand what is God. Therefore they commit mistake that "God is like this," "God like that," "There is no God," "There is no form." All these nonsense things are proposed, because they are imperfect. Bhagavān therefore said, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Because He comes for our benefit in the human form, the fools and rascals consider Him as ordinary person. If Bhagavān says, ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4], "I am the seed-giving father," so we, every one of us, we know that my father is person, his father is person, his father is person, and why the Supreme Person or the supreme father should become imperson? Why? And therefore we have to learn from Bhagavān, the Supreme Person, full knowledge. This Bhagavad-gītā is therefore full knowledge from the full Personality of Godhead. We cannot change even one word in this Bhagavad-gītā. That is folly.



*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is following this principle. We don't manufacture any concocted things. We simply distribute the message given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And this is becoming effective practically. You can see practically these Europeans and Americans, Australians, all over the world, they did not know four or five years ago, or say ten years ago, since I have begun this movement, they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Although Bhagavad-gītā was being presented by so many swamis and yogis, not a single man became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So our, this presentation, because it is pure, without any adulteration, it is acting very nicely. Even the Christian priests, they become surprised when they see that these boys, their boys-they were Christians or Jews*-they becomes surprised that "These boys were never coming to the church. They were never interested in understanding what is God. Now, since this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there, how these boys have become so mad after God?" The only reason is that we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We preach that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says also in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So this is being effective, that if we really want to understand Bhagavad-gītā, we must understand as it is presented by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the instruction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the movement which was given to us by Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction is this. He says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So He is asking everyone, especially bharatīya,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being conducted or was started by single*-handed, myself. If all the Indian sages and saintly person, they take Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and preach all over the world, there is great, great demand for it. Unfortunately, so many persons go there. One big swami, he said that "Kṛṣṇa means black, and black means unknown." Of course, nobody cares for his speech. Kṛṣṇa is going on, forward. Everyone is accepting Kṛṣṇa. But this is the most unfortunate thing, that our men go there to deprecate Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we should very carefully try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is presented by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. This should be preached, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme, ultimate. Ahaṁ saravsya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Even Brahman, Paramātmā, has also come from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. He says, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. He is the supreme of all the demigods. There is no need of worshiping any other demigod. Kṛṣṇa says, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Hṛta-jñāna. Hṛta-jñāna means who has lost his intelligence. How he has lost his intelligence? Because they get from these demigods some temporary benefit. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23].



*So our real problem is that we... Every one of us, we are the spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are struggling for existence within this material world. So manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti*-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7], struggle for existence. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Your real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]." We are eternal. We understand from Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So if I am eternal, nityaḥ śāśvata, then why I am accepting death? This is real question. But foolishly we are thinking, "I am this body." Therefore we remain as an animal. So we should be interested to understand actually "What I am," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is real solution of all problems. This is called knowledge. But sometimes we are misled by misleaders; *therefore we still remain in darkness in spite of cultivating knowledge. But actually, when we cultivate knowledge under the guidance of real guru, then we can understand vasudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. This is confirmed in the Vedas, Brahma-saṁhitā:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So spiritual knowledge means to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the sum and substance, to understand Kṛṣṇa, what He is, not that concocting, manufacturing that "Kṛṣṇa is this. Kṛṣṇa is that." No. As Kṛṣṇa says, as śāstra says what is Kṛṣṇa, you have to understand it like that. So sādhu śāstra guru vākya. It is said that we have to accept knowledge through saintly person. Through śāstra and guru we have to understand. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all the sādhus and ācāryas. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu*-all of them accepted Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So ācārya means one who has learned, taken knowledge from the śāstra, authoritative śāstra, Vedas. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended, ācāryopāsanam. If you want real knowledge, then you must take knowledge from the ācāryas or the ācārya-paramparā. Then there is knowledge. Otherwise it is ignorance.



*So under the circumstances, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, Bhagavān says... Śrī*-bhagavān uvāca, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha. The real business is to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. This is your real business. How we can increase our attachment for Kṛṣṇa, that is explained by Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. The āsakti, attachment, it has to be done according to the system, ādau śraddhā. First thing is śraddhā, little faith, that "Let us go to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and let us hear what they say." This is called śraddhā. Then, if you become interested, then sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Those who are actually devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa, you have to associate with them. And who is sādhu? Sādhu is described by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā:

api cet sudurācāro

*bhajate mām ananya*-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ...

[Bg. 9.30]



*He is sādhu who is... So the fact is, sādhu means unalloyed devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He is sādhu. Śuddha*-bhakta.



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmady anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



One who has no other desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa favorably, he is sādhu.



So we are sending all these sādhus all over the world, these European and American sādhus, because they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any doubt. And it is becoming effective. Because we have got so many expansive centers all over the world, it is not possible for me to go everywhere. But these boys, because they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously, they are doing very nice. And it is not difficult for them, because we have given this English translation of this book. We have got at least eighty books of four hundred pages, and they are preaching very nicely. And by the grace of Kṛṣṇa... You'll be surprised to understand that we are selling books, not less than one lakh of rupees per day. So the preaching is going on very nicely. We request all Indians to take part in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be yourself happy, be yourself guru, and deliver all other persons who are in ignorance. And to become guru is not very difficult. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*You become guru. It is not very difficult. How? Now, because you have to simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. So Kṛṣṇa says everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. These four things if you accept*-to think of Kṛṣṇa always, to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, to offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa and to worship Kṛṣṇa-these four things if you do, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and you can preach all over the world. It is not at all difficult. So if you become sincere, seriously Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there will be no difficulty because Kṛṣṇa says,



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi tam...

[Bg. 10.10]



*If you constantly, twenty-four hours remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, man-manā, then-Kṛṣṇa is there within your heart*-He will give you instruction, "Do like this." So Bhagavān is not far away from you. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna [Bg. 18.61]. He is staying within the core of your heart. But if you qualify yourself as devotee, He'll speak with you. But if you commit offenses, thinking Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man, then Kṛṣṇa will never give you instruction.



*So our request is, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you study Bhagavad*-gītā. You don't require... Because Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vedas means if you are actually a student of Veda or Vedānta, Veda-Vedānta, then the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, however big Vedāntist you may be, you remain a fool. This is the conclusion of Bhagavad-gītā.

Thank you very much. (end)



751227LE.SAN

Lecture with Translator

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Sanand, December 27, 1975



*Prabhupāda: ...śrī-bhagavān uvāca means the supreme authority. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. If you learn from the supreme authority without any deficiency, then the knowledge is perfect. Ordinary person, they have got four deficiencies: they commit mistake, they are illusioned, their senses are imperfect, and with imperfect knowledge they try to speak-that is cheating. Therefore we have to receive knowledge from the person who knows past, present, and future. So the best personality-there are so many others*-Kṛṣṇa and His representative, both of them are perfect because Kṛṣṇa is perfect, there is no doubt, and one who speaks according to Kṛṣṇa, he is also perfect. A human being or a living being is not expected to become as perfect as Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Therefore, if a person sticks to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, does not make any addition and alteration, he is also perfect. Unfortunately, at the present moment especially... It was done formerly also five thousand years, that they make addition and alteration on the version of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is misinterpreted by so-called scholars and politicians. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. Somebody interprets, "This dharma-kṣetra is this body." Why? Why one should interpret in that way? Interpretation is required when things are not very clear. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre is still there. People go to Kurukṣetra for executing religious rituals. And in the Vedas it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret. So why it should be interpreted as "body"? And where is the dictionary where dharma-kṣetra means "body"? So in this way, if we interpret Bhagavad-gītā, then we spoil the whole thing. I spoil myself and spoil others. Therefore the conclusion is we shall accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa.



*So here the bhagavān uvāca, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is speaking. So we shall take it without any interpretation. The Bhagavān says, mayy āsakta*-manāḥ.

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ (māṁ)

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*So Bhagavān says, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme authority, says that "You require to transfer your āsakti, attachment, to Me." Everyone has got āsakti. Aśakti means attachment, this material attachment. Someone has got attachment for his family, some to society, some to nation, some in business and so many things. Aśakti is there. But to make your life perfect, you have to transfer the āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. In the Western countries, I have seen, most of them, they have got no family, no āsakti family, but because the āsakti is there, every one of them keeps a dog. So they are accustomed to place their āsakti to cats and dogs. That means āsakti cannot be finished. That is not possible. So you haven't got to learn what is āsakti. Aśakti is there. Everyone has got experience. Simply that āsakti, that tendency of attachment, should be transferred to Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life. In Vṛndāvana the center of āsakti is Kṛṣṇa. There is Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodā*-they have āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. The young girls, they have got āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. The cowherd boys, they have got āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. The trees, they have got āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. The fruits, flowers, they have got āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. The water, Yamunā River, the āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. So if we make our central point of āsakti, then you can create Vṛndāvana everywhere. So this is the success of life. We have to change the āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest form of mystic yoga. Kṛṣṇa has already explained in the previous verse,



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo (mataḥ)

[Bg. 6.47]



*Aneka yogis... There are many yogis, many form of yoga practice, mystic, but the yogi who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, he is first*-class yogi.



So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people how to become attached to Kṛṣṇa. But if one does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of increasing his āsakti for Kṛṣṇa. So to understand Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa personally appears to draw our attention to Kṛṣṇa. When we forget our āsakti, that is material life, forget our āsakti for Kṛṣṇa, that is our material life, or we struggle for existence in the material life. That is said by Kṛṣṇa:

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



*This dharmasya glāni, deviation from the occupational duty... Dharma means occupational duty. Then Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy, He appears to teach us how to divert your attention and āsakti to Kṛṣṇa. So dharmasya glāni, deviation in the path of religious system, means to forget our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa ultimately, at the end of the Bhagavad*-gītā, He says, as the Supreme Person, He orders, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Therefore He did not come to establish the so-called Hindu dharma or Mussulman dharma or Christian dharma, this dharma or that. He came to establish the real dharma, that is, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is establishing also in the beginning, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: [SB 1.1.2] In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the so-called cheating ways and cheating type of dharmas are kicked out, projjhita, thrown away. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is explaining what is real dharma as it is established by Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So according to dharma-śāstra, material dharma-śāstra, it is said, dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90], up to mokṣa. In this connection Śrīdhara Swami, the great commentator of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he says, atra mokṣa-vāñchā api nirasta: "In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is no chance or opportunity for thinking of so-called liberation." The purpose is that if one fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he immediately becomes liberated. The Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, he says, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān. Why... For a devotee, why he should be anxious for mukti, because mukti is always standing on his door to give him service, mukulitāñjali-sevā, with folded hands. So a devotee hasn't got to endeavor separately for mukti. As soon as he is engaged in devotional service, mukti is already there. Just like if a person becomes rich man, automatically his poverty is gone away. So a rich man does not require to endeavor separately to drive away poverty. So therefore the central point is, Kṛṣṇa is advising here, "Just increase your āsakti, attachment, for Me. Then everything will come."



*So He recommends, mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. This word mad-āśrayaḥ is very important, because you cannot increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa without being mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means to be directly under the direction of Kṛṣṇa or to be directly under the direction of somebody who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He recommends mad-āśrayaḥ. You cannot execute the yoga system, devotional service, bhakti-yoga, without being under the control of somebody who is under the control of Kṛṣṇa. Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended therefore, yad upāśrayāśraya. One has to take shelter of a pure devotee; then he becomes purified. Yad upāśraya. Upāśraya means to take shelter of a pure devotee. And in that case,

*kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā

ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ

*ye 'nye ca pāpā yad*-apāśrayāśrayāḥ

śudhyanti (tasmai) prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ

[SB 2.4.18]



*So not only those who are highly elevated brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... Śūdras... Less than śūdra, they are called kirāta, hūṇa, āndhra, pulinda, pulkaśā, ābhīra, yavanāḥ, khasādayaḥ. They also can be purified if they take shelter of a pure devotee. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, māṁ ca...,



māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striya vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



*Means that "Anyone, even if he is born in the pāpa*-yoni, the pāpa-yoni, kirāta, hūṇa, if he takes shelter of Me, then he also gets the supreme perfection." Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Now it is the duty of a devotee of Kṛṣṇa to expand this progressive march toward devotional service. Otherwise, how the pāpa-yoni will learn? This is para upakāra. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission,



*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



That every Indian who has taken birth in India as a human being, he should first of all make his life successful by understanding Kṛṣṇa, and then he must preach outside to render service to others as welfare activities.



*So Kṛṣṇa appeared as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to teach us practically how to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and how to deliver persons from the pāpa*-yoni. Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a ācārya of the Gauḍīya sampradāya, he says in his song, śrī-nanda-nandana yei, nanda-suta haila yei, śacī-suta haila sei. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He appeared as the son of mother Śacī. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, "The same Personality of Godhead who appeared as the son of Mahārāja Nanda," nanda-suta haila yei, śacī-suta haila sei, "He has now appeared as the son of mother Śacī." And balarāma haila nitāi: "And the same Balarāma has appeared as Nityānanda prabhu." Now, what is Their business? That is described: pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. So pāpī tāpī yata chilo, harinām..., ta'ra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. Then he is giving evidence how the pāpī and tāpīs are delivered. "Here is the example of Jagāi-Mādhāi." This Jagāi-Mādhāi, they took birth in a good brāhmaṇa family but by bad association they became drunkard, thief, woman-hunter, and so on, so on. But they were also delivered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to become first-class Vaiṣṇava.

*So our aim should be how to increase our attachment. The attachment is there. It is not artificial. It is said in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta that,

*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



The Kṛṣṇa bhakti, attachment for Kṛṣṇa, is quite natural. It is already there. Simply it has to be awakened.



*nitya*-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya

*śravaṇādi-śuddha*-citte karaye udaya



*If you engage yourself to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then your heart will be purified and your original Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be awakened. For this purpose Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu also advises, paraṁ vijāyate śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam, "All glories to the saṅkīrtana movement," because simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, everything will automatically come in. The complete instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu is,



*ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

*śreyaḥ*-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

*ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

*(sarvātma*-snapanaṁ) paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

[Cc. Antya 20.12]



*So the saṅkīrtana movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the more you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā*-mantra, your, the heart disease, material enjoyment, that will decrease, and then you will understand what is your position and you will be gradually attracted by Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. This is the test of bhakti, that if you engage yourself twenty-four hours in devotional service, then immediately you become liberated. Bhaktiḥ pareśā... Liberation means to become detestful to material enjoyment.



So Kṛṣṇa attachment is so nice that... Dhruva Mahārāja, he was in the beginning attracted by material enjoyment. He wanted a kingdom more than his father, and he went to the forest for meeting the Supreme Personality of Godhead to get this benediction. So Dhruva Mahārāja actually, when he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he refused to accept any benediction. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. This is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa āsakti. If you actually become attached to Kṛṣṇa, then you'll think yourself completely filled up. There is no more asking for any material benefit. Therefore in the śāstra it is recommended,

*akāmaḥ sarva*-kāmo vā

*mokṣa*-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

*tīvreṇa bhakti*-yogena

yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa

[SB 2.3.10]



*Even if you have got material desires, sarva*-kāma, still you be attached to Kṛṣṇa so your material aspiration will be fulfilled; at the same time, you'll get Kṛṣṇa. When Dhruva Mahārāja refused to take any benediction, Lord Viṣṇu informed him that "Don't bother. You had some desire for material fulfillment, so there is Dhruvaloka. You enjoy, and after your life is finished, you'll come to Vaikuṇṭha." So Kṛṣṇa is so nice, so liberal, that if you have got a little tinge of aspiration He will fulfill you, and at the same time, you'll go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore it is recommended, yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa. If you have got some material desire, still you worship Kṛṣṇa. He'll fulfill; *at the same time, you will be able to go back to home, back to Godhead. Kṛṣṇa is all*-powerful, almighty, full with six opulences. So if you have got any material desire, that also Kṛṣṇa can fulfill, but you stick to Kṛṣṇa so that your āsakti will be increased. If you divert your attention to other demigods, then this āsakti will fail. Therefore for a devotee who sticks his faith in Kṛṣṇa, he has no chance for worshiping other demigods. So the Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, anya devāśraya nāi, tomāre kahinu bhāi, ei parama bhakti karaṇa. For a devotee of Kṛṣṇa there is no scope for worshiping other Deity, because that will not help him to increase his attachment for Kṛṣṇa. But if we want our āsakti, attachment, to increase for Kṛṣṇa, then absolute...



anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

*jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]



We have to give up all other material desires, simply stick to Kṛṣṇa to serve Him, always ready to serve Him. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Just like Arjuna. He was ready to serve Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, everyone should be ready to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life.



*So one has to execute this process of devotional service. As Kṛṣṇa said, mad-āśraya: "Take shelter of Me, or My devotee." Now, at the present moment, in the teachings of Bhagavad*-gītā Kṛṣṇa is personally instructing, so let us take shelter of His personal instruction and make our life successful. And not only he becomes a devotee, but a pure devotee understands Kṛṣṇa as it is said here, asaṁśayaṁ samagram, not partially but fully. It is, of course, not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa fully. Still, almost fully a devotee can understand Kṛṣṇa. That is also confirmed in the last paragraph, last chapter,

bhaktyā mām abhijānāti

yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ

tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā

*viśate tad*-anantaram

[Bg. 18.55]



*So if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must increase our attachment for Kṛṣṇa, and by that process we can understand Kṛṣṇa, what He is. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Then our door to go back to home, back to Godhead is clear. The conclusion is, therefore, that we should take to the bhakti process as it is enunciated in authoritative śāstra, by Kṛṣṇa, by the ācāryas. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the way, only, for our perfection of life.



Thank you very much. (end)



760104LE.NEL

Lecture

-

Nellore, January 4, 1976



*Prabhupāda: ...Mr. Reddy and Ladies and Gentlemen, I cannot speak in Telugu. Kindly excuse me. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very old, at least five thousand years old. And if we take history before that, then it is at least forty millions of years old. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness was spoken by Kṛṣṇa before the Battlefield of..., Battlefield of Kurukṣetra took place. Kṛṣṇa instructed this same Bhagavad*-gītā philosophy to the sun-god. He says in the Fourth Chapter,



imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa



*So this transcendental science, bhakti-yoga, means to surrender unto the Supreme Lord. This is the simple thing. God is great and we are small. God is prabhu, and we are aṇu. We have got the God's quality as part and parcel, mamaivāṁśa jīva-bhūtaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says that "These jīvas, they are My part and parcel." So gold mine and gold earring, both of them are gold, but the quantity of gold in the earring and the quantity of gold in the mine is not the same. This is right understanding. There are two classes of philosophers. One is thinking that "I am one with the Supreme"-monism, or brahma-līna. And the Vaiṣṇava, they are thinking that "We are different from God"*-that is the fact-"and God is great, and we are very, very small, minute fractional part of God." So bheda abheda. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu summarizes that bheda and abheda both. In quality we are abheda, but in quantity we are bheda. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is acintya-bhedābheda-tattva. That is the fact. If I am equal to God or if I am God, then how I have become a dog? So this is a controversial going on. But from Bhagavad-gītā, as God explains Himself, He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. He is the Supreme. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā described by Lord Brahmā, he says,



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Kṛṣṇa also said. The Vedānta says that the Absolute Truth is that from where everything emanates, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. And Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everything." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ.



*So we have to follow mahājana because we are tiny living entities. We cannot speculate. This is nonsense. Speculation is nonsense. Panthās tu koṭi-śata*-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso [Bs. 5.34]. If we speculate we shall never reach the Absolute Truth. That is not possible. But power is very limited. How long I shall speculate? This is called kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya. Just like a frog in the well is informed by his friend, "My dear friend, Mr. Frog, or Dr. Frog, I have seen a big, vast mass of water, Atlantic Ocean." The frog, he has never seen the Atlantic Ocean. So he is speculating, "Atlantic Ocean? The well is three feet round. It may be four feet." "No, no. It is very..." "All right, five feet? Six feet? Ten feet?" So how long he will speculate? There is no comparison. Similarly, the greatness of God we cannot speculate. That is not possible. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ [Bs. 5.48]. Brahmā... There are millions of Brahmā and millions of brahmāṇḍa, and they are coming with the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo [Bs. 5.48]. That Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, who is breathing millions of brahmāṇḍas and Brahmās during the breathing period, such Mahā-Viṣṇu is also āṁśa-kāla. Svāṁśa, and then part of svāṁśa. So govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham. So it is not possible to understand the nature of God, or Kṛṣṇa, by our tiny speculation. It is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes down to explain Himself. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. This is dharmasya glāni, godlessness. This is called dhar... Everyone is dependent. In the modern civilization, especially in the Kali-yuga, everyone is dependent, but he is thinking that he is independent. That is the folly. In minute to minute, step to step, he is completely dependent. But still he is thinking, "Independent." He is speculating independently to understand what is God. So especially mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā [SB 1.1.10]. This Kali-yuga they are very slow or bad, manda. And sumanda-matayo, and they accept some "ism." Sumanda-matayo. And create some mat, matavādī. But this will not help us. We must know that we are dependent. We are dependent on the laws of material nature, and the material nature is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

*sūyate sa*-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagat viparivartate

[Bg. 9.10]



*So these things are there. Unfortunately, we do not take care of it. Bhagavad*-gītā, I think, throughout the whole world, at least in India, in every house, every home, there is Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not understand Kṛṣṇa. This is our misfortune. This is our misfortune. This is dharmasya glāni, that Kṛṣṇa explaining, the śāstra explaining that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], but we do not understand. And mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. This is due to misfortune. Manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a tiny little attempt to convince people that "You are searching after God. Take. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. Take His address. Take His father's name. Take His mother's name. Why you are searching? Here is God." This is our mission. So we haven't got to manufacture anything, because every information is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. And especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He has explained. What is Kṛṣṇa, He has explained. And Kṛṣṇa has explained. Then where is the difficulty to understand God? There is no difficulty.



So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission... We are carrying out the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants that people are suffering for lack of God consciousness, so preach God consciousness all over the world. (aside:) Don't talk. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, especially to the Indians, He says,

*bhārata*-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari' kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Bhārata*-bhūmi, those who are born in India, their business is to do welfare activities throughout the whole world, because the whole world is in darkness about understanding the Supreme Person with whom we have got very intimate relationship because we are part and parcel. Just like your son is part and parcel of your body. Somehow or other, if he forgets and goes out of home, you are anxious to see that your son comes back. A son may have become mad. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa, He is the son of... Kṛṣṇa is the father of all living entities. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrt..., ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father." So Kṛṣṇa is very, very anxious to take us back to home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Therefore He comes personally, He sends His representative, He leaves behind Him Bhagavad-gītā, so we can take advantage and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our real happiness. Any man who is wandering in the foreign countries without any shelter, without any security, his happiness is when he goes back to home, back to Godhead.



*So we living entities, we are here in this material world. We are loitering in different bodies. Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Now I am Indian or American. I am very great leader, Indian leader or American. Next moment I may become a dog or cat. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is absolute. There is no question of... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. As we are working, creating a mentality-just like if I am infecting some disease, then I have to suffer from that disease-so similarly, this material world is consisting of three modes of nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, and mixed. So we are infecting according to our activities. The first-class position is to become a qualified brāhmaṇa. Śamo damo satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So that is the best quality. And next the kṣatriya quality, next the vaiśya quality... Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. So according to the infection of different qualities, we are preparing the next body, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. This is karma. You work as a brāhmaṇa, you work as a kṣatriya, svakarma, according to your capacity, quality. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā, guṇa. These guṇa... As we are associating with the qualities and acting, then we are creating a body next life. So next life, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ... [Bg. 2.13]. As we pass from one form of body even in this life, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, youth-hood to old age... Kṛṣṇa begins His instruction with this point, that we must know what we are. We are not this body. If we remain in the bodily concept of life, then we are no better than cats and dogs. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].

*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit

*janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*So India especially, we have got so much advantages, so many Vedic literatures, and instruction by Kṛṣṇa, instruction by Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So we can very easily make our life perfect. In other countries they cannot. They haven't got the advantage. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that those who are born in India, special privilege, they should take advantage of this infallible experience of the great sages, saintly persons, even by God personally. Why you should neglect this? Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said that "Make your life perfect. Take very seriously the instruction of the Vedic literature, and understand the position and preach this cult all over the world." That is para*-upakāra, not that "I have understood that I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi." No. You preach how you are brahmāsmi, how you can remain in the Brahman platform. Simply understanding will not do, theoretical. Jñānaṁ vijñānam. This theoretical knowledge is good, but there must be practical application. Then it is... Then it will stand. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,



*brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

*mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[Bg. 18.54]



*That means simply to understand that "I am Brahman" will not endure. You must keep yourself as Brahman in the Brahman platform. And what is that? Mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. You must act as a Brahman. That is mad-bhakti, Kṛṣṇa said. And in another place Kṛṣṇa says,



māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*That is... After Brahman stage... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]*-Absolute Truth.



*So if you simply come to the Brahman stage, param pada, that will not endure. There is every chance of falling down. Just like you go in the sky in eighteen thousand miles per hour, and so on, so on. Just like these people are trying to go to the moon planet. If you get shelter in moon planet or any other planet, then you will be able to stay. Otherwise, come back again. They are coming back. They are going... It is well advertised they are going to the moon planet. Then why they are coming back? Why you should come back? So the idea is that simply in the Brahman, impersonal stage... Just like sky, nirviśeṣa. You can go eighteen miles, eighteen thousand miles speed, but if you don't get a shelter, then you'll have to come back again. This is the risk. So you must get shelter. So the Bhāgavata therefore advises that āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. You can go very high in the sky, but if you don't get any shelter in any other planet... So similarly, you can make your spiritual progress understanding of Brahman, but if you do not get any shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then you'll fall down. That is a fact. We have seen many sannyāsīs. They give up this material world, that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Then, after some years, he comes down again this mithyā jagat to open schools and hospitals. And if this world is mithyā, then why you are interested with the schools and hospitals? That means they could not get any Brahman realization. They again come to taste. So therefore śāstra says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. One can rise up to the paraṁ pada, brahma pada, but patanty tataḥ. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho. Adho means this material world. Why? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. They could not take shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. Brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. This Brahman is the rays of the body of Kṛṣṇa, just like the sunshine is the rays of the sun-god, the sun planet.

*So unless we come to the point of taking shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, our life is imperfect. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes. He says ultimately that "My dear Arjuna, because you are My very dear friend, I am giving you the most confidential knowledge." What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is most confidential. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is the same because Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Kṛṣṇa reminded that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, but the duṣkṛtina mūḍha narādhama, they could not understand it. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu came again as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa to teach how to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that-His mission is especially to the Indians, those who are born in India*-that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This instruction was given in South India when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was traveling in South India. So many people... He was attractive, and... "Sir, take me with You. Sir, take me with You." He traveled in the villages, villages, very extensively. Especially He traveled in South India. So at that time this instruction was given to some South Indian brāhmaṇa: "My dear sir, better stay here. Don't come with Me. You try to preach My philosophy. You haven't got to come with Me." So He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā, that "Why you want to come with Me? My mission is this. If you want to help Me, then you become a guru under My instruction. You become a guru." "Sir, I have no education. I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am this. I am that. How can I become guru?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Where you are living, you just try to deliver them. But you become a guru." "How I shall become?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa: "Simply you instruct what Kṛṣṇa has said, that's all. Then you become guru. You don't require any other qual..." "No, I am not a brāhmaṇa; *I am śūdra, I am this or..." That is also all right, because He said to Rāmānanda Rāya when... He was śūdra. He was talking with Caitanya Mahāprabhu but he was very learned devotee. So he was feeling hesitation that "Caitanya Mahāprabhu's coming from very high*-grade brāhmaṇa, and He is sannyāsa. His position is very exalted. I am a śūdra. How I can advise Him?" He was questioning, and Rāmānanda Rāya was answering. So the answer-giver is in superior position, so he hesitated. So while he was hesitating, Caitanya Mahāprabhu encouraged him,

kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



*He said, "It doesn't matter whether you are a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra or... These are all bodily conception of life. You become above the bodily conception of life. You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa." Yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā.



To understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti...

[Bg. 7.3]



*It is not so easy, but it can be very easy, provided we take this bhakti*-mārga. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. Very easy. And what is bhakti? Bhakti is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things: "Always think of Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. You can think of Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? It doesn't require that you have to pass your Ph.D. examination; *then you can think of Kṛṣṇa. No. Anyone, even a child, can think. Man*-manā. And who can concentrate on Kṛṣṇa unless he is a devotee? So man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "You worship Me." Māṁ namaskuru. "By executing these four principles of life you will come back to Me"-mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]-"without any doubt." So it is not at all difficult. Had it been difficult... I am collecting my disciples throughout the whole world, and we condemn them according to our... "They are mlecchas, yavanas." Maybe they are mlecchas, yavanas, but Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that even mlecchas-yavanas, they can be purified.



*kirāta*-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā

ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ

*ye 'nye ca pāpā yad*-apāśrayāśrayāḥ

śudhyanti...

[SB 2.4.18]



They can become purified by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So we are suffering in this material world on account of forgetting Kṛṣṇa. This is the root cause, forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the seed*-giving father of everyone," and we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. We have forgotten our father. This is the disease. So in order to cure this disease, to awaken them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best welfare activity in the world, para-upakara. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that. Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra. India's mission is not that we colonize in other country and exploit them and bring money and become a lord. No. India's mission is how to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout the whole world. That is India's mission. Revive Kṛṣṇa con... Revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa, and then distribute this knowledge. This is Indian mission. So it was... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has entrusted this missionary work to everyone. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. So there is good field for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They want it. They are reading our Kṛṣṇa conscious books very nicely. We are selling not less than 100,000 worth books daily. They are purchasing. So I wish that in India people should take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be... Every one of you should become Kṛṣṇa consciousness and go to the outside countries and preach this. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does... You haven't got to manufacture something by your fertile brain, speculating. That is useless, nonsense. Simply you take what Kṛṣṇa has said and preach it. You become a guru and you deliver the whole world.

Thank you very much. (end)



760115SP.MAY

Speech Excerpt

-

Māyāpur, January 15, 1976



Prabhupāda: ...that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's aspiration that the Europeans, Americans, and Indians all together dance jubilantly and chanting "Gaura Hari." So this temple, Māyāpur Chandrodaya temple, is meant for transcendental United Nation. What the United Nation has failed, that will be achieved here by the process recommended by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu,



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



So you have come from all parts of the world and living together in this temple. So train these small boys. I am very glad, especially to see that the small children from all other countries and Indian, Bengalis, all together, forgetting their bodily consciousness. That is the greatest achievement in this movement, that everyone forgets the bodily conception of life. Nobody thinks here as "European," "American," "Indian," "Hindu," "Muslim," "Christian." They forget all these designation, and simply they are ecstatic in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So kindly what you have begun, do not break it. Continue it very jubilantly. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the master of Māyāpur, He will be very much pleased upon you and ultimately you will go back to home, back to Godhead.



Thank you very much. (end)



760407SP.VRN

Speech to Devotees

-

Vṛndāvana, April 7, 1976



*Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) So since the beginning of this meeting the speakers were talking in Hindi, but these foreigners, they could not understand. But out of reverence they were sitting. So I have taken permission to give them the summary of the speeches spoken by the Vaiṣṇavas, especially by Śrīman Bhakti-dīpa Mahārāja. Bhakti-dīpa Mahārāja is disciple of my elder Godbrother, so naturally he is very affectionate to me especially. Sometimes we lived together, and we follow the same principles of philosophy. So his speech about vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhi, arcye viṣṇau-śilā-dhīr, this is very important. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. He wanted that everywhere in the nook and corner of this world, every city, every town, every village, there should be the chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Chanting should be preached. So by His grace it is going on. Now in the remotest part of the world, even in Australia, the southernmost part of this globe, there also we have got four branches-Melbourne, Sydney*-and we have got a very big building, very big temple of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Last year I established, and many hundred thousand devotees are coming. So certainly the Caitanya Mahāprabhu foretelling is now spreading.



So this bhajana, as our speaker, Bhaktama (?), he said that,

*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvanda*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajanti māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ



So people say that I have done miracle. Maybe. At least it is the first time in the history that Vedic culture in its true form is bring distributed all over the world. We have got many, many appreciation by the learned scholar circle, big, big professors all over the world. They are accepting that this is the first time that India's traditional spiritual culture is being spread. One professor in France, he has plainly said that even Aurobindo or Dr. Radhakrishnan, they presented this Vedic culture in a modernized way, not in its original traditional form. That is a fact. We don't make any compromise. Therefore we have especially meant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to follow what Kṛṣṇa says. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Ei deśa. Wherever you are, it doesn't matter. Either you are in India or in America or France or anywhere, any deśa, or any country, wherever you are, just try to deliver them. Because guru's business is to deliver the fallen souls.



*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇārṇavasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*Guru's business is not to exploit the śiṣya. It is the business, how to deliver. So who can deliver? Who is actually guru in the paramparā system? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. So we have to take the authority of become guru from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same thing. Within five hundred years His order is that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "You cannot become guru all of a sudden. You must take order from Me." He is jagad-guru. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you, all of you, to become guru and deliver. Because there are so many innumerable fallen souls in this age-mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]*-we require hundreds and thousands of gurus. But not cheaters. This is the time when requires hundreds and thousands of gurus. But who will become guru? That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's injunction, āmāra ājñāya: "By My order you become guru. Don't be all of a sudden guru. Become guru on My order."



*So what is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa Himself. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. Kṛṣṇa varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam... [SB 11.5.32]. He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. As Kṛṣṇa orders by directly, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], Kṛṣṇa can do that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa, but He is acting as devotee. This is... Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne. Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī could understand that "Here is Kṛṣṇa Himself in the form of Kṛṣṇa devotee. Therefore He can deliver Kṛṣṇa-prema, not only Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa-prema." So He is giving very simple formula:

āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

*yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'*-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]



*Simple thing. We don't require to be very learned scholar, M.A., Ph.D. If you simply follow what Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad*-gītā... If you do not go very deep into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam especially, and if you simply read the Bhagavad-gītā... We are presenting, therefore, Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any adulteration. They give me so much credit that "You have done wonderful, miracle," and I do not know how to play any miracle. Our Dipa Mahārāja knows me from the very beginning. I do not know how to play magic. I do not know. But only magic is that I don't adulterate. That's all. I don't adulterate. I say simple thing. Kṛṣṇa said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, Absolute Truth, that's all. What difficulty you have? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. And He says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things: "Always think of Me..." So I am teaching them, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll think of Him." So man-manā. And who can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa unless he is a devotee? Ordinary man cannot chant. He has no taste. But these boys, they are taking my word very seriously. I have asked them to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. They are seriously following. They have no illicit sex. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was questioned by a gṛhastha devotee, "How we can understand a Vaiṣṇava?" So He summarily replied that "Vaiṣṇava, to become Vaiṣṇava perfectly..." Asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra [Cc. Madhya 22.87]. This is the first principle. Don't associate with asat. Asato mā sad gama. So next line He described who is asat. Asat eka strī-saṅgī, kṛṣṇābhakta āra-finished. In two lines we can understand who is a Vaiṣṇava. So I have asked them. These people, European and American, they are ordinarily very much accustomed to these habit: illicit sex, gambling, meat-eating. But upon my word they have given up everything. Asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava...



*So there are many things. And other thing? They are reading the Vaiṣṇava literature very nicely, and they are pushing the Vaiṣṇava literature all over the world. By their personal efforts they are giving service. We have about sixty*-five volumes, books, each book four hundred pages. And they are introducing in the universities, colleges, library. Even sometimes they are beaten. In this way these boys, they are helping this movement. And perhaps you'll be surprised that our sale collection from the books is not less than one lakh of rupees per day, sometimes five lakh of rupees per day. So this movement has captured the ideas, spiritual ideas of the Western people, by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And as His foretelling or you are expecting, ambition, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, that is being done. And unfortunately in India they are not received very well. The government is thinking they are, what is that? CIA. A CIA has become (?) to become Vaiṣṇava dancing in Vṛndāvana. (laughter) Just see their intelligence. And Purī also, they are not allowed to enter in the Jagannātha temple. These things are going on. So this is very regrettable, and our Śrīman Bhakti-dīpa Mahārāja has strongly protested against this idea. Therefore I thank him very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!



Indian man: (Hindi) (end)





760619LE.TOR

Śubha Vilāsa Home Engagement

-

Toronto, June 19, 1976



Prabhupāda: Who will talk? You can speak.



Satsvarūpa: So last year, at this time, a year ago, Śrīla Prabhupāda came to Śubha Vilāsa's house as part of his visit to Toronto. At that time Toronto ISKCON had only a small temple which they'd had for years on Gerrard Street. All the devotees were very enthusiastic, but their place was not such a nice facility. So Śrīla Prabhupāda visited and came here, and many members of the Indian community and other members of the Toronto community came, and Śrīla Prabhupāda spoke here. At the end of his talk, one man asked Śrīla Prabhupāda that "We are very glad that you have come. Now you please come back again. When will you return again?" Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "I will return when you get a big temple for this center." He had seen different temples, including this big church. So Śrīla Prabhupāda's invitation to them was that they should make collection to purchase this temple. So Śubha Vilāsa and Viśvakarma and all the devotees actually worked so hard, and by Kṛṣṇa's grace they were able to purchase this temple.



So we can see that it is the desire of the pure devotee. Whatever Kṛṣṇa wants, He does not have to work at all. His desires are immediately fulfilled simply by His desiring. Everything is fulfilled. By Kṛṣṇa's finger signal the whole material creation is created, brought about, and it's maintained by His separate energies. And everything is annihilated by Kṛṣṇa's will and created again. And Kṛṣṇa, He is fulfilling all His infinite desires in the spiritual world also. So as Kṛṣṇa's desires are immediately fulfilled, the pure devotee's desires are also fulfilled. That's because he is one with the Lord. His interests are the same are Kṛṣṇa's. This is the oneness, that the pure devotee has no desire but to see that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And so by Śrīla Prabhupāda's desiring this to come about, praying to Kṛṣṇa, therefore the devotees also praying and endeavoring have brought about that now Toronto is situated in such a nice temple, and just since opening that temple now so many new devotees have come and joined. So it's now very firmly situated in this big North American city to go on spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So we should be always so grateful to Śrīla Prabhupāda, not only for coming and visiting us in our temples, whereby we can actually see in this instance how by his visit this came about, that a year later now such a big, big temple is there... That anyone can plainly see. It is phenomenal. It can be seen. But also we should be grateful that by his instructions... Because the physical presence is not always appreciable. Sometimes he is here and some, then he is not here. But always Śrīla Prabhupāda is with us by our following his instructions. We simply have to be obedient to these instructions. As Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying last night in the initiation lecture, that human life is meant to follow these instructions of tapo*-divyam [SB 5.5.1], going to the difficulty of giving up sinful habits, meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, gambling, and engaging in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we do these things very sincerely, then we shall always have Śrīla Prabhupāda guiding us. Kṛṣṇa is in the heart, and when Kṛṣṇa in the heart sees that we are trying to follow the instructions of the pure devotee, who's also a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa within is the Supersoul. Kṛṣṇa manifested before is us the spiritual master. So the Lord within the heart will see that we are trying to follow the instructions of the spiritual master and will enlighten us how to always stay strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to always feel the direct association and direction of the spiritual master by obedience to his instructions. So all these things we'll realize more and more if we simply faithfully stick to Prabhupāda's instruction, and his main instruction is that we simply all be happy and engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: You can....



*Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can appreciate the temples that Śrīla Prabhupāda has established all over the world when we compare the material life, as going on today, with the life we live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Presently in this world, the Kali-yuga is so much manifest. We can see that year by year things are becoming more and more degraded, not in arithmetic proportion but even in geometric proportions. So rapidly everywhere society is decaying and people are becoming more and more just like animals, exactly like animals-simply interested in eating, simply interested in sex life, simply interested in trying somehow or another to find some object to gratify the senses. But in the temple we can practically experience a different quality of life altogether. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is establishing the internal potency of the Lord within this material world in the form of his temples. Kṛṣṇa says, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13], that persons who are always glorifying Kṛṣṇa, they live in the internal potency of the Lord. And practically in our temples, glorification of Kṛṣṇa, by the order of our spiritual master, is going on. We can understand practically that to live in the temple is to live in the internal potency*-is very rare opportunity. We can see practically that there are so many billions and billions of people in the world suffering without any opportunity even of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*So just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Śrīla Prabhupāda, even at this advanced age, in spite of so many difficulties... Just like I'm somehow or another Śrīla Prabhupāda's secretary, and I'm always trying to arrange for his physical comforts. But he's always saying, "To preach means to accept discomfort," that for an older person to travel on airplanes and to always move about and to go here and there for the service of the Lord is naturally more difficult than for a very young person. But Prabhupāda is accepting this uncomfortable situation simply to establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout the world, at least to give people the opportunity that "Choose, if you like, between the internal potency and the external potency." The external potency means you're forced. We have no choice. We're forced to undergo repetition of birth and death. Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Nobody likes to grow old, but this youthful age, soon it will become old age. And nobody likes to die. So present-day civilization is blindly going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās: [SB 7.5.31] the blind leading the blind. People are thinking that "My parents did it. Their parents did it. Generations have done it. So also we engage blindly in materialistic way of life and everything will be okay." But the result is that everyone is simply suffering, and after this lifetime they also have to suffer the consequences of this present life's activities blindly, not knowing that they're responsible for their activities.

*So we have a choice now whether to follow a representative of God, Kṛṣṇa, who can bring us to the internal potency of the Lord. This internal potency is not dry. It is the origin of bliss, sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. It is not impersonal, void, lifeless, without any happiness. It is what everyone is actually looking for, simply pervertedly within this material world. So this opportunity is here. Before Prabhupāda came to the Western countries, actually there was no hope. There was no hope at all. There was no such knowledge, there was no such opportunity to choose between material life and something else. There was no reality other than this body, and for everyone it was simply a very hopeless, distressful situation. But Prabhupāda personally, even at advanced age, he's coming simply to give this opportunity to the Westerners and to everyone throughout the world, that besides this material life, there is another, eternal life, and if you utilize your independence very carefully to transfer your attachment to this internal potency of devotional service and service to the Vaiṣṇavas and to Kṛṣṇa, then you can become free forever from the encumbrance of repeated birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the great fortune that has come upon us in the form of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, in the form of association with the pure devotee, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and in the form of chanting the holy name. In so many ways we are being benedicted, and if we can simply remain fixed in the pure knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and we don't become illusioned by this material energy, thinking just like the animal that there's some happiness there... The animal is running after the mirage, but there's no water there. Similarly the foolish human beings, as Prabhupāda aptly mentioned the other day to these professors who came to visit him, the dog is running with four legs, here and there, very, very busy, and the human being also he's running, but he's running in an automobile with four wheels. But he's thinking that his running is superior to the dog's running. Why? He's very busy running here and there for the same activities, and the dog is running with four legs. The activities are the same. So without culture the running in the car and the running of the dog is the same. So this Kṛṣṇa culture is now being spread all throughout the world. It's giving people to see how actually human life should be lived. And the temple is a place where practically we can set an ideal example of human life for the whole of human society. Therefore we're greatly indebted to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!



Prabhupāda: Jagadīśa, you can.



Jagadīśa:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

*tasmai śrī*-gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*In the world, in the material world, there are two kinds of persons: devotees and the demons. Devotees are those who have understood the existence of the Supreme Lord and are engaged somehow or other in His service, and the demons are those who reject the service of the Lord. In the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad*-gītā this is described: catur-vidhā bhajante mām. There are four types of people who surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So those who are in distress, those who are in search of money, those who are inquisitive and those who are searching after the Absolute Truth, so these four kinds of persons, when given the opportunity, will take shelter of the Supreme Lord. And the other four kinds of persons are called, are described in Bhagavad-gītā...



Prabhupāda: Duṣkṛtina.



*Hari-śauri: Māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā.



Jagadīśa: What's the first?



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*Those who are mūḍha, foolish, grossly foolish, those who are narādhama, those who are lowest of mankind. Those who are māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā, those whose knowledge is stolen by illusion. Those, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, those who are of the atheistic nature of demons. These four kinds of persons do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. In the purport in Bhagavad-gītā Śrīla Prabhupāda has explained that practically 99.9% of the human population fits in these categories, will not surrender unto the Supreme Lord. Therefore the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is formed to give opportunity to those who choose to surrender to the Lord to associate with one another, to cooperate together in serving the mission of the Lord.



*The material world is created for a specific purpose by the Supreme Lord. That purpose is to give a chance to the forgetful living beings who have tried to exercise independence from Kṛṣṇa to once again understand their position. They're put into various conditions of material existence in order to learn that they are not the enjoyers and controllers. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer. Param īśvara. He's the supreme controller. Everything is meant for His satisfaction. In Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is described, describes Himself, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8], that "All material and spiritual worlds are created by Me. Everything is emanating from Me." So created by Kṛṣṇa for His pleasure, just as a father or a man takes a wife and has children and gets a house and he expands himself in this way for enjoyment. He tries to enjoy by expanding his influence in the material world. So this is because he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and he has the same tendency as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer, and He has expanded Himself in multi-energies to enjoy Himself, and the conditioned souls are also part of that multifarious energy. They are called marginal. Jīva-śakti. And that means they can go one way or the other. They can choose to use their independence to please Kṛṣṇa or they can choose to use their independence otherwise. That otherwise means that they must come to the material world. That is Kṛṣṇa's purpose in creating the material world*-to give a chance to these foolish living entities to revive their eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa and go back to home back to Godhead.

*So within human society... This is also stated in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad*-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many thousands of men, one may endeavor for perfection. And of many such perfected men, hardly one knows Me in truth." So the material world is a very dangerous place. The living beings within the material world are kṣatram. They do not know the purpose of life. They are simply interested in their own advancement, somehow or other. So they engage in all kinds of destructive activities which cause harm to themselves and to others. So this is the condition of the material world. Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda has stated that this is no place for a gentleman. In the material world everyone is, just as we are observing... I was visiting the Kṛṣṇa consciousness farm in British Columbia, and on the road we were passing large herds of beef cows. We were discussing that the farmer thinks of these cows not as spirit souls but as commodities. He simply puts them in a field to eat, and when they get big enough, kills them and takes the money for his enjoyment. He doesn't see that these are living entities, spirit souls. So this activity of the human beings, killing the cows, helpless cows by the thousands daily, is causing the..., or is an indication that there is no merciful quality in the human beings. They are simply interested in their own aggrandizement and welfare. If they don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that is the only alternative.

*Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and canvasses, and He tells the conditioned souls, "You must surrender to Me." And if one chooses not to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that means that he himself wants to become Kṛṣṇa*-without any qualification. The spirit soul is infinitesimal spark of Kṛṣṇa. And that spark, when not in touch with Kṛṣṇa, the fire, becomes like the sparks of the fire not in contact with the fire: extinguished. So there is no good qualities for the living beings who are outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the four types of men who surrender to Kṛṣṇa, they're doing so with some selfish interest. All of the conditioned souls are acting for their own selfish interest. They do not know otherwise. But somehow or other, if one of the conditioned souls will surrender to Kṛṣṇa by the grace of a pure devotee, then that immediately puts him into a situation of becoming purified. The greatest purification is to come in touch with a pure devotee of the Lord. There are many many ritualistic activities prescribed in the Vedic literatures for gradual purification. But, as Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī points out in his Upadeśāmṛta, what is the good of undergoing so much atonement and pious activity if the heart remains contaminated and the living entity remains sinful, ready to..., just acting for his own benefit? Therefore the greatest opportunity for the conditioned soul is when he gets the chance to associate with a pure devotee of the Lord.

*The pure devotee of the Lord instructs the conditioned soul to engage in activities just to please Kṛṣṇa, as Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī explains. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Without any separate interest, no mixture of jñāna or karma, no desire for sense gratification or acquisition of knowledge, just to engage in activities for the pleasure of the Supreme. This is the perfection. Otherwise, without coming in touch with a pure devotee of the Lord no one could understand this. And especially in this age of Kali when the human society is so degraded, that if it weren't for some laws prohibiting, and even despite those laws, the human beings are engaged in cut-throat activities, killing one another. Just like this abortion. Now they've passed some law which allows killing. So now it is going on, wholesale slaughtering, by mothers of their own children. This is the condition of human society.

*So the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is specifically formed by Śrīla Prabhupāda to help those of us who are lost and entangled in this material condition to associate with one another under his guidance and achieve, by this process recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, chanting the holy name, we can achieve rapid purification, and in this one lifetime, Śrīla Prabhupāda has promised that we can go back to home back to Godhead. So we should try to cooperate together. There is no other purpose. Once one comes in touch with the pure devotee and understands his message, and there's no other purpose for living in this material world than to serve the mission of the Lord. And that mission of the Lord as already explained, is to reclaim the conditioned souls who have fallen into the material world and are lost, helplessly entrapped. So we should try and cooperate together. Learn Śrīla Prabhupāda's instructions very perfectly and try to carry them out, following the four regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds and working together to spread the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world so that its influence can affect all the living beings who are living on the face of the earth. Actually in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī has stated that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will spread all over the universe. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is undoubtedly empowered by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He's doing such wonderful service, spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over this globe and we should pray that we can help in some small way. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: So I have heard that there are about fifty thousand Indians in Toronto. So why they are not coming? They want to become bara sahib only?



Indian man: Yes, they are here to make the money, that's all they are doing.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) They have no other purpose? So this is not good. What is their objection? They don't want their own culture?



This is Indian culture, they should be proud that Indian culture is being accepted by the foreigners. And they are living, they are becoming bara sahib? What is this? Now it is your duty to deliver these bara sahibs. That they are not taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So is there any other outsider Indian present?

Indian man: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Come here. But you have already joined. (laughter) Your trick. Your trademark is there.



*Indian devotee: Nama oṁ viṣṇu*-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhūtale...



Devotee: (indistinct) They are also chanting sixteen rounds a day now and he's staying at the temple.



Prabhupāda: So he has already joined. I mean those who have not joined. I think this gentleman? I saw him in the morning. So, (Hindi).



Indian man (1): This is a very good question. (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is the sign of degradation. So Indians have become so degraded, shall I take it like that?



Indian man (1): No, it's not that, but there must be some other reason why they're not coming.



*Prabhupāda: What is other reason? There cannot be any reason. Here is temple of Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa, and the Bhagavad-gītā is being preached, Bhāgavata is being preached. Why they do not take interest?



Indian man (1): I've been coming to temple for six years now here in Toronto.



Prabhupāda: Well, you are coming, all right. But I have heard that there are fifty thousand Indians. So why they do not come?



Indian man (1): Maybe it's catching up now



Prabhupāda: Is there any special reason, they can discuss with me, if one is interested.



Indian man (1): (Hindi) discrimination may be (Hindi) the society here to accept this kind of thing, and people maybe don't want to align themselves with this kind of thing so that they are not ridiculed by others. This could be one of the reasons. Because, you know...



Prabhupāda: Ridicule?



Indian man (1): The method may be, they may think maybe that it is too strong for people here to accept.



Prabhupāda: No, strong, (Hindi) Jaya, Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee (2): Many of them think we're fanatical Western countries.



Prabhupāda: Many? (Hindi)



Devotee (2): I don't speak Hindi. I'm from South America, British Guinea.



Prabhupāda: So what is the reason the Indians are not coming in large numbers? They are coming, some.



Indian man (1): I think they are too much in māyā. (laughter)



Indian man (2): They want to be Kṛṣṇa.



Indian man (1): Everybody wants to be Kṛṣṇa themselves.



Prabhupāda: Rascal. (laughter) Everyone wants to become a rascal. Don't be that.



Indian man (1): (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is not good. Everyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa.



Indian man (1): Or they're seeking for Kṛṣṇa in material world.



Prabhupāda: (Hindi) As Kṛṣṇa lifted the Govardhana Hill at seven years old, so can he do that? Then how he'll become Kṛṣṇa? Simply by imagination. (Hindi) Hindu society.



Indian man (1): There are too many sections of religion, Hindu religion.



*Prabhupāda: There cannot be any section. There are two section: demons and the demigods. That is the statement in the śāstra. Dvau bhūta*-sargau loke 'smin daiva āsura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. There are two kinds of men: daiva and āsura. Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. So if they want to remain demons, that is their choice, but that will not help them.



Indian man (1): Most fortunate men try to follow Kṛṣṇa. The unfortunate...



Prabhupāda: So anyway, now it is Śubha Vilāsa Prabhu's duty to bring these imitation Kṛṣṇas.



Devotees: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Guest: Many, many good bhaktas are being spoiled by impersonalists nowadays...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You are personalist or impersonalist? He is personalist. (laughter) Hari*-nāma karo (Hindi). So, another kīrtana? (end)





760706AD.WDC

Tenth Anniversary Address

-

Washington, D.C., July 6, 1976



*Rūpānuga: In July 1966, Śrīla Prabhupāda in New York City formed the International Society for Krishna Consciousness Incorporated. Śrīla Prabhupāda mentioned this morning he was asked to call it the "International Society for God Consciousness," but he did not take that advice. He stuck to the principles of his Guru Mahārāja and called our Society an International Society for Krishna Consciousness. At that time His Divine Grace outlined the purposes for the Society. We want to read them tonight to show that actually they have all come true. And on this tenth anniversary, all the purposes of our Society actually are being fulfilled or already have been. The first one was to systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large, to educate all people in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check the imbalance of (indistinct) to achieve real unity and peace in the world. Second, to propagate a consciousness of Kṛṣṇa as He is revealed in the Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Third, to bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer to Kṛṣṇa, and thus to develop the idea within the members and humanity at large that each soul is part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Fourth, to teach and encourage the saṅkīrtana movement, congregational chanting of the holy name of God, and to reveal the teachings of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Fifth, to erect for the members and the Society at large a holy place of transcendental pastimes dedicated to the Personality of Godhead. Sixth, to bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler and more natural way of life. With a view towards achieving the aforementioned purposes, to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, books, and other (indistinct).



*So we can see that actually Śrīla Prabhupāda has in almost a hundred centers and āśramas throughout the world, this has been established in less than ten years. One gentleman recently was saying, one respectable gentleman was saying, "I do not see how this society has spread all over the world (indistinct)." And I explained to him what we have done already has been in ten years. Just imagine twenty, thirty, forty years, like that. He was so surprised to see that actually in ten years alone all this has been accomplished. And revealing Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct) Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda's books are now printed in almost fifteen languages around the world and distributed in millions every year. The United States and Europe, South America and Africa, the Mediterranean, every country in the world is now benedicted by Śrīla Prabhupāda's translations. So that purpose he has kept. "To bring the members of the Society closer together in (indistinct) ...society based on love and trust." (indistinct) ...past bad activities and bad habits we have actually become more and more trusting between ourselves because we have banded together to help Śrīla Prabhupāda push this movement. We have to base our relationships with each other on love and trust; otherwise this would never happen. I've seen personally so many people gathered together under one roof who would never speak to each other in the material world, who would never even see each other, who would never (indistinct). But in Kṛṣṇa consciousness all these things are forgotten because there's a common denominator, Kṛṣṇa, and everyone's (indistinct) together in love and trust.

*"To teach and encourage saṅkīrtana." There's hardly a person who travels anywhere who hasn't seen saṅkīrtana in every major city in the Western world. And now they're in India, now in Africa. People see us everywhere. One time a boy said to me... I asked him, "How many devotees do you think, full*-time devotees, do you think we have?" (indistinct) "All right. Two million?" (indistinct) ...barely a thousand at that time, but because of their energy, because Śrīla Prabhupāda's energy is (indistinct) all his disciples, it appears that there are millions. Because people see us all over the world. Actually we are simply distributing Śrīla Prabhupāda's books. (rest of Rūpānuga's speech is indistinct, followed by another speech, also indistinct.)

Prabhupāda:



*oṁ ajñāna*-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

tasmai śrī gurave namaḥ



[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]



*śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ

*sthāpitaṁ yena bhū*-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

*dadāti sva*-padāntikam



[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]



*This movement is śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭam. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He appeared on this earth five thousand years ago in Bengal, Navadvīpa, to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, although this movement is not new. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started by Kṛṣṇa Himself. Apparently the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started by Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra five thousand years ago, and He said that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement I spoke to the sun*-god long, long years ago." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. This is avyaya. Avyaya means which is never diminished or destroyed. Vyaya means which is destroyed, and Kṛṣṇa says this yoga system... This is yoga system: bhakti-yoga. Yoga means to connect, to add, yoga. So at the present moment we are almost disconnected. Not exactly disconnected; *forgotten our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God. God means Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa means God. So in the human society there are many different types of yoga system just to reconnect our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad*-gītā they are explained differently, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, bhakti-yoga. All of them are yogas, but there are different stages. Yoga means to connect or to link up with the Supreme Absolute Truth. Now suppose he is in the topmost platform. So everyone is trying to go there. Mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, "Everyone is trying to come to Me, but..." Just like the person who's on the top floor. So the staircase is one. Somebody has crossed ten steps; somebody has taken, crossed twenty steps; somebody has crossed hundred steps; but one has to go, to fulfill, say, one thousand steps. There are different yoga systems. Everyone is trying to go to the topmost platform, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ. This is a fact.



*So in the Kali*-yuga especially, to come to the highest platform of yoga perfection step by step, it is little difficult. Actually, to practice yoga, one has to undergo so many austerities, penances, rules, regulations. That is all described in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, how yoga should be practiced. It is recommended that yogis should sit down in a secluded place, sacred place. So in India, still, those who are actually yogis, at least those who are trying to follow the yoga system... Real yoga system means dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginaḥ, those who are yogis, they sit down in a secluded place, alone. The yoga practice is not possible in a fashionable city. That is not possible. It is to be executed alone. Still you'll find in India, many places-Hardwar-there are many yogis, they are sitting alone. They have nothing to do with this material world, and dhyānāvasthita, and not only for one, two, three years, but for many hundred years. Still many yogis come during Kumbhamelā. Their age is three hundred years, four hundred years, five hundred years old. It is possible. It is possible. By exercising the breathing, one can prolong his life. That is called samādhi. If you can stop your breathing, then you enhance your duration of life. That is possible. Therefore you'll find the picture of the yogis, they are controlling the breathing. Because everyone has got a destined breathing period by superior arrangement. So if you don't spend your breathing, then you prolong your life. If you can remain in samādhi, don't breathe, then... Just like if you have got a bank balance, one thousand dollars. If you don't spend it, then the one thousand dollar is there. Or out of one thousand dollars, you spend one. Still you have nine hundred ninety-nine. So the yoga practice is to control the breathing period. And this breathing can be controlled if you can control your sense pleasure. Otherwise it will not be possible. Especially sex. Everyone has got experience. While sex life one enjoys, the breathing is very heavy. Very, very heavy. So he loses the balance of his breathing period. Therefore the first practice of yoga is yoga indriya saṁyamaḥ, to control the senses. That is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Sixth Chapter.

*So this yoga system was possible in the Satya*-yuga, I mean to say, possible for the mass of people. If one or two persons practices yoga, the practice is there, the system is there, but it is not possible for the general public. It is not possible. So in the śāstra we find, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuḥ [SB 12.3.52]. Real yoga system, I've already explained, that yoga indriya saṁyamaḥ, or by meditation to see the Supreme Lord always within the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. In trance, you'll find yogi picture, their trance, they are in meditation, completely silent, stop breathing and seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, within the heart. This is actual yoga system. But it was possible to be executed in the Satya-yuga. Satya-yuga means when people used to live for one hundred thousands of years. That was possible. Just like Vālmīki Muni. He executed yoga system for sixty thousand years. Because he was to live for one hundred thousands of years, so it was not very difficult to engage oneself for sixty thousands of years. But that is not possible in this age. Therefore śāstra says,

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

*kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt

[SB 12.3.52]



*Kalau, in this Kali*-yuga, when people are very, very fallen... Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. They are very unfortunate also, and manda-bhāgyā, and although unfortunate, they are disturbed by so many external factors. So it is very difficult to execute yoga system or yajña system, sacrifice. It is very costly affair. Or even arcana, temple worship, it is also very difficult, because people are not very much interested even, worshiping the Deity in the temple. In India there are thousands and thousands of temples, temple or mosque or church, at the same time, for offering prayers, obeisances to the Lord. People are losing interest in that arcana-mārga. There are many temples I have seen, there is no caretaker. People are losing interest. Many temples. They are open; a dog is living within the temple and passing stool. I have seen it.



*So people are gradually losing interest in temple worship even, what to speak of yoga or offering sacrifices. Everything is now finished. Therefore kalau tad dhari*-kīrtanāt. This is prescribed in the śāstra. That system was introduced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Because other system will not be successful in this age. May be successful in one or two cases, but not for the general mass of people. Therefore śāstra recommends... There are different incarnation of God, but one incarnation is there, it is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and other places also, in Upaniṣad and Mahābhārata. These are approved Vedic scriptures. So the Vedic knowledge is summarized in the Vedānta system, Brahma-sūtra, everything done by Vyāsadeva. And in order to protect the sanctity of Vedānta... Because there are so many foolish persons, they are distorting the purpose of Vedānta-sūtra; *therefore Vyāsadeva, under the instruction of his spiritual master Nārada, he personally wrote a commentary on the Vedānta*-sūtra. This is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu introduced these two things-saṅkīrtana and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means the expansion of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, at the last stage, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also begins from that point. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives introduction, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. All cheating type of religious system kicked out, projjhita. Projjhita means just like you sweep over the floor, and all the dust, you throw it away. That is called projjhita. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita.

So this system, one system, to accept the real principles of religion. That is, Kṛṣṇa also explained. It is explained by Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa came, appeared. Why? What is the purpose of Kṛṣṇa's appearing? Sometimes they argue, atheist class of men, that God cannot come. Why God cannot come? God is your father's servant, that He cannot come? You are ordering? If He cannot come, how He is God? God can do everything. Why you say that God cannot come? He is not under your rules and regulations. Then He is not God. God can come. God says, "Yes, I come!"

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

[Bg. 4.7]



paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

*dharma*-saṁsthāpanārthāya

sambhavāmi yuge yuge

[Bg. 4.8]



*So why God cannot come? So when God says, "Yes, I come for this purpose. This is My mission..." Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati. What is that glānir? Glānir means discrepancies. Not, the principles of religious..., when it is not executed properly, that is called glānir. So what is dharma? A simple definition is given: dharmaṁ tu sākṣāt-bhagavat-praṇītam. Dharma means the law given by God, that's all-three words: God and His words. So if we do not know who is God, if we do not know what is His order, then we are lost. If we do not know God and if we... Just like if we do not know what is the government and if we do not know what is the order of government, then what is our position? We'll commit every step some mistake, and we shall suffer. So we must know what is dharma and... A cat, dog cannot understand dharma, but a human being is supposed to understand dharma. Lawbooks are made for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. "Keep to the left" or "Keep to the right," the signboard is there in the street. Or the red light is there, blue light is there*-for whom? For the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. The cats and dogs may disobey; *there is no criminality on their part because they are cats and dogs. So there is law of God, there is God. If human being does not know what is God and what is the law of God, then he's no better than the cats and dogs. He must know. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19].



*So that law is being instructed by the God Himself. That is Bhagavad*-gītā. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. So Kṛṣṇa did not come to establish some sectarian religious system. That is not God's system. God is for everyone. God is not for the Hindus, for the Muslims, for the Christians, or anyone. God is for everyone. He is for animals, trees, plants, aquatics, insects, everyone. Because He claims, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

*sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

*ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4]



*Kṛṣṇa is claiming. Actually, that is the fact. If you study only this verse, sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ. There are so many forms of life, beginning from grass. That is also life. The grass is coming from the earth, the trees are coming from the earth, the animals, four-legged animals, they are eating grass, they are forming semina, they are discharging the semina, and the animal species of life are coming. We are eating, either eating the animal or the vegetable, we are also begetting children. The origin is from the earth. Tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir. Mahat-tattva. So we can see practically that these things are there, so many different varieties of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. They are all living entities. Aquatics, nine hundred thousand forms of life within the water, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi, everything accurate. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, the trees, plants, they are standing, sthavara. That is very great punishment. Those who are very, very sinful, they have to take birth as trees and plants and stand up for thousands of years. Material nature's punishment. A small ant, it can move, but a big tree cannot move. That is punishment. Just like in our childhood we were being punished by the teachers, "Stand up on the bench." So it is like that.



*So in this way Kṛṣṇa, or God... If you simply study this line, that so many living entities are coming out of the earth, either water or land or air or anything. They are coming out. So they are offspring and material nature is the mother, Kṛṣṇa says that. Sarva*-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ, tāsāṁ mahad yonir-mahat-tattva [Bg. 14.4]. Yoni, mother. So where is the father? The children are there, the mother is there, the next inquiry should be, "Where is the father?" That is natural. Without father, the mother is sitting with the child, nobody can say the child has no father. If somebody says that "I do not see the father. How I can believe?" that is foolishness. You believe or not believe, you see or not see, there must be father. This is the conclusion. This is theory, that this world is going on, everything is coming out of the mother earth, then there must be father. And that father is present, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the father."

So it is our misfortune that we do not recognize the father. So it may be, "How can I recognize my father?" Ask you mother. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. All Vedic literature will say, "Here is father." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*So we'll find in every Vedic literature, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father. When Arjuna understood Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Tenth Chapter you will find, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. And he also confirmed that "I am accepting You like this, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12]. So people may be in doubt because I am Your friend. So they may say, 'Out of friendship, regard or affection, out of sentiment, he is speaking like that, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme person, paraṁ brahma.' " But Arjuna immediately rectifies this impression, that "Not only myself, but great authorities like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, they are also affirming." Vyāsadeva is authority. Veda-vyāsa, he is the giver of Vedic knowledge. So he is accepting. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam he is writing, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. He has given description of the incarnation of God, then he concludes that "All these incarnations, they are part and parcel or plenary expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but the name which I have mentioned as Kṛṣṇa, that Godhead, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, He is the Supreme Original Personality of Godhead." That is Vyāsadeva's... So we have to accept. And Arjuna also says, svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me, "You are also personally speaking that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7], 'There is no more superior authority than Me.' " So this is confirmed.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to find out the supreme father. Supreme father. That is the sum and substance of this movement. If we do not know who is our father, that is not a very good position. At least, in India, it is a custom, if somebody cannot say his father's name, he is not very respectable. And it is the system in the court that you write your name, you must write your father's name. That is Indian, Vedic system, and the name, his own name, his father's name and his village name. These three combined together. I think this system may be prevalent in other countries, but India, this is the system. The first name his own name, the second name his father's name, and the third name is the village or the country where he is born. This is system. So father's..., we must know the father. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If we remain forgetful of our father, that is not a very good position. And what kind of father? Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12]. The richest. Not the poor father who cannot feed his children. It is not that father. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That father is so rich that He alone is feeding millions and millions and trillions of living entities. In Africa there are hundreds and millions of elephants. He is feeding them. And within the room there is a hole, there may be millions of ants. He is also feeding them. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These are the Vedic information.

So human life, this is meant for understanding who is father, what is His law, who is God, what is our relationship with Him. This is Vedānta. Vedānta does not mean talk some nonsense and no relationship with the father. Śrama eva hi kevalam. If you do not know who is your father...

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

*viṣvaksena*-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

[SB 1.2.8]



*This is not wanted. And Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. So you become Vedantist, that's very nice. In the beginning of Vedānta it is said that the Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is beginning. Now the human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth, jijñāsā. One should inquire what is the Absolute. That is human life, to find out the Absolute Truth. So the next sūtra immediately says that Absolute Truth is that who is the source of everything. And what is that everything? Two things we find: animate and inanimate. Practical experience. Some of them are animate and some of them are inanimate. Two things. Now we can expand the varieties. That is another thing. But two things are there. So these two things, we see there is a controller above these two things, the animate and inanimate. So we have to inquire now whether the source of two things, animate and inanimate, what is the position? The position is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The original source of everything is abhijñaḥ. How? Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣu. If I have created something, I know everything, all details, anvayād, directly or indirectly, I know. If I manufacture something... Suppose if I know some special cooking, then I know all the details how to do it. That is the origin. So that origin is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: [Bg. 7.26] "I know everything-past, present and future." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. According to creation theory... Not theory, fact. Brahmā viṣṇu maheśvara. So these are the principle devatās. So Viṣṇu is the original. Aham ādir hi devānām. The creation, first Mahā-Viṣṇu; *then from Mahā*-Viṣṇu there is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. From Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu there is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, expansion of Viṣṇu, and from Him, Brahmā comes. Brahmā is born out of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu on the lotus flower, then he gives birth to Rudra. This is the explanation of creation. So Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām. He's also origin of Viṣṇu because, from the śāstra we say, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. The original Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. And the first expansion of Kṛṣṇa is Baladeva. Then from Him this Catur-vyūha, Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, like that. Then Nārāyaṇa. From Nārāyaṇa, the second Catur-vyūha, and from the second Catur-vyūha, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Mahā-Viṣṇu. In this way you have to learn the śāstras. You'll find that actually, as it is said in the śāstra, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. And Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. And Arjuna accepts, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So we have to accept śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: you have to see through the śāstra. And if you learn śāstra, then you'll find kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to present to the human society the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So we started this movement in 1966, registering it. Our Rūpānuga Prabhu has already explained. So take this movement very seriously. The same, Kṛṣṇa, started within the historical, five thousand years ago. And He started this movement with Arjuna as His disciple. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He revived again the same movement. He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. And that is going on. Don't think that this is a manufactured movement. No. It is the authorized movement and confirmed by the authorities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. There are mahājanas mentioned in the śāstra. So be fixed up in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. We have got so many literatures, authorized literatures. And make your life success.

Thank you very much. (end)



760725L2.LON

Lecture Excerpt

-

London, July 25, 1976



Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So not only now, always. Long, long, millions of years ago there was Hiraṇyakaśipu. There was Vena Mahārāja and... Hiraṇyakaśipu was against his son. And Kaṁsa was against Kṛṣṇa. Śiśupāla was against Kṛṣṇa also. So against Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in this age, there will be many, undoubtedly. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us instruction, tṛṇād api sunīcena. You should always expect some obstruction by the demonic party. That is not very astonishing. But still, we have to do our business and... [break] ...be tolerant. Be humble. Be tolerant. Don't be agitated. Then your business will suffer. This is māyā's kingdom. The test is always there. Combating is always there, and māyā's party is very strong.



*Especially at the present moment, Kali*-yuga, the atheistic persons are almost everyone. They have been described as mandāḥ. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā [SB 1.1.10]. By becoming manda... Manda means bad, very bad. In Bengali there are two words, bhāga, manda, good and bad. So the manda, this word, has come from manda, Sanskrit word. So not this... The general people, all manda-short-living, wretched, unfortunate, misguided. So mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā. They are not fortunate. Mostly they are wretched. You'll find on the street so many wretched. So this is the position of the Kali-yuga. And they are not living also very many days. Still, they are against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the position. They are suffering, but still, they are... Dog's obstinacy. This is the position.

So still, we have to do our business. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised that "Be humbler than the grass." The grass, we are trampling over the grass; *there is no protest-"All right, go on." And tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣ... And trees, very tolerant. You cut the tree, it will not protest. So you take fruits, flowers from the tree. Take all advantages and again cut. Just like they are taking last drop of milk from the cow and after exacting everything, then send to the slaughterhouse. So the whole world is engaged in sinful activities. You cannot expect from them any concession for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore we have to become humbler, tolerant, because real Kṛṣṇa consciousness means good*-bye to this material world. We are no more interested with your, these big, big street, big, big buses or anything, whatever you think that is improvement, advancement.

*So Kṛṣṇa conscious person are no more interested. Why not interested? They are disgusted. Why disgusted? No, because it is full of danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. Here everything appears to be very nice, but every step there is danger. So the Kṛṣṇa conscious person knows it, that although it is decorated very nicely. The New York is a big city. Twenty*-four hours, "dungdungdungdungdungdung-guggugguggugguggug"-fire, always fire. Every minute there is a fire case. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's description of this material world as blazing fire... We see big, big cities in America, always in blazing fire. Still, they like this kind of life. But one who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are no more interested, no more interested. They are interested back home, back to Godhead. Back to Godhead. Therefore our magazine is Back to Godhead. They are no more interested in front. They are going back to... (laughter) Therefore this name was given, Back to Godhead. They are trying: "No more we are so foolish. To go forward, material civilization..." And where you'll go? You are packed up within this universal atmosphere. Just like they are running for the moon planet, for the Mars planet. And where the rascals running, they'll come back.

*Long, long ago, when Rabindranath Tagore came here, so when he saw that people are running, so he wrote one poetry, "Where these people are running? This country is very small, all around seas, so where they will go, running? They'll fall down." So our running has no meaning. It is dog's running. But people are still busy, trying to go here, there. But we are conditioned souls, baddha*-jīva, bound up by the laws of nature. We cannot surpass, but still, we are thinking we are advancing, we are going forward. So we can go forward, up to the limit of this universe, Brahmaloka, but ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]-again you have to come back. You are not free. Those who are free, liberated, so they go beyond this universe. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20], yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. So people have no information, no education, no culture. They are put into the darkness and working so hard without knowing what is going to happen next. A civilization of complete darkness, very dangerous. Next life they do not believe, because if they believe, then they are horrible. "Better not to believe. Close your eyes. Don't see what is the danger in front." It is like that.

So those who by fortune have come in contact of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, so they are supposed to be intelligent. So try to understand the whole situation, the whole universal position, very minutely, that this material world is very, very, very dangerous for you. You may believe or not believe. Nature's work will go on. Nature doesn't care for your belief or not belief. What you are? So don't be foolish, mūḍha, narādhama, because one who does not take care of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have been described as duṣkṛtino mūḍhā narādhamāḥ. Not very good certificate. So be sober, stick to the principles, read the books carefully, learn more and more about the whole situation, and as far as possible, live conveniently. But if there is inconvenience, don't be discouraged. Don't be discouraged. Therefore this verse was written by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. But don't be discouraged. So I'm sure you'll not be discouraged. Kṛṣṇa will provide another good house if they are persistent to drive away.

*So Kṛṣṇa is providing another good house, so there is no discouragement. But go on executing your routine work. I am very glad to see that you are taking care of the Deities very nicely. Whenever I come, I see. This is very encouraging. And the more you keep the Deity very nicely decorated, then your heart will be cleansed of all dirty things of this material world. Tṛṇād api... Ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is wanted. And if we keep our core of heart cleansed from material dirty thing, then māyā will not be able to overcome us. So keep in that spirit. Never mind if sometimes, occasionally, there is some difficulty. We have got examples of devotees. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, Prahlāda Mahārāja had to face so many difficulties. They didn't care. So God consciousness means you have to face difficulty but you should not be discouraged. You must go on with your business, and then success is sure. There is a verse in this connection. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam [SB 10.14.8]. When there is difficulty a devotee thinks, "It is a good fortune that Kṛṣṇa has given us some difficulty to counteract my previous bad action." So in this way, if we live, then mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk. If one is not opposed by all these difficulties and with determination he goes forward, then for him going back home, back to Godhead, is guaranteed. Dāya-bhāk. Dāya-bhāk means it is hereditary or herent. Eh? What is called?

Devotees: Inherited.



*Prabhupāda: Inherited, yes. So just like father's property the son gets*-there is no law to check it-similarly those who are humbly, tolerantly going on with Kṛṣṇa consciousness with full determination, for them going back to home, back to Godhead, is guaranteed. Nobody can check. So our business is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. If there is some difficulty you should tolerate and go on with our business.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



760725LE.LON

Sunday Feast Lecture

-

London, July 25, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Somebody fanning, and water also. (chants maṅgalacaraṇa prayers) So śrī*-caitanya-mano-'bhiṣṭam. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's ambition or mission. Śrī-caitanya-mahāprabhu mano 'bhiṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale. His ambition was propagated or established by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. They were ministers in charge of the then Pathan government in Bengal and very learned scholar in Urdu and Sanskrit, but after meeting Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Rāmakeli village in the district of Maldah in Bengal, North Bengal... That was supposed to be the capital of Nawab Hussain Shah. So then they joined to preach this saṅkīrtana movement or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So their mission was to establish the Rādhā-Govinda Mandir, as many as possible. They first started in Vṛndāvana, Madana-mohana temple. Most Indians present here, they know. There are... [break] ...temples in Vṛndāvana. There are five thousand temples in one small city of fifty thousand population, but the most important because they were established by the Gosvāmīs. Rūpa, Sanātana, Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, Śrī Jīva, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, Dāsa Raghunātha, the Six Gosvāmīs, direct disciple of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Sanātana Gosvāmī established first the Madana-mohana temple. Then Rūpa Gosvāmī established Govindajī's temple. Then Jīva Gosvāmī established Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, then... [break] ...Gosvāmī established Rādhā-Madana-mohana temple. Śyāmānanda Gosvāmī, he established Śyāmasundara temple. These are important temples.



*So this mission, one of the items is to establish temples, as many temples as possible, especially Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temples. So by the grace of the Lord... In London there was no Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temple. Now we have... (indistinct) ...and not that these temples are being worshiped by any Hindus or Indians, but all sorts of people. There is no distinction. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is this. Yei bhaje sei baḍa, abhakta hīna chāra [Cc. Antya 4.67]. Anyone who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, yei bhaje, who is engaged in devotional service of Lord Kṛṣṇa, yei bhaje se baḍa, he is big. Our calculation of big, small, not by the caste system. Yei bhaje: "Anyone who worships or who is engaged in devotional service of the Lord..." There is no particularly any person or any society or any caste or any nation is said. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yei bhaje se baḍa. Yei bhaje sei baḍa, abhakta hīna chāra. And one who is not a devotee, he is the lowest and abominable.

yei bhaje se baḍa bhakta hīna chāra

kṛṣṇa bhajanete nāhi jāti kulādi vicāra

[Cc. Antya 4.67]



*So far Kṛṣṇa bhajana is concerned, there is no such distinction of caste, creed, nation, religion, no. Everyone. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's word, and Kṛṣṇa's personal words are, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha 'vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. People are generally against the mlecchas, yavanas or the caṇḍālas because according to Vedic system, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriya, they are supposed to be pious family, brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas. Less than that, even woman, they are not so pious. So in that sense there is discrimination. But Kṛṣṇa says that māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone, it doesn't matter, even he belongs to the pāpa-yoni, low-grade family. And because women and vaiśyas are śūdras are also considered as less important, so Kṛṣṇa mentions, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim: "Even women, śūdras, or the vaiśyas, everyone can be elevated to the higher transcendental platform, parāṁ gati." Parāṁ gati. Gati means advancement, stepping forward, gati. So everyone is given this advantage of stepping forward. Stepping forward... (aside:) ...is it finished or not? Eh?



Indian man: Just they're offering.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Stepping forward, there are two ways, stepping forward, gatiḥ. One way, go to hell, and another way, go to Kṛṣṇa, stepping forward. So who is going to back to home, back to Godhead, and who is going to hell? There are two ways. I think the Christians also believe like that: either go to heaven or go to hell. Actually, there are two ways, stepping forward. So here Kṛṣṇa says, the greatest authority, that



māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

*ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa*-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

[Bg. 9.32]



This step forward means going back home, back to Godhead. And another stepping forward there is.



matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

*mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām

*adānta*-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

*punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām

[SB 7.5.30]



*Another, this process, is those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious... Matir na kṛṣṇe. Their consciousness is not for Kṛṣṇa. Matir na kṛṣṇe. Why they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious? They cannot be? No, they cannot be. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā, by personal deliberation or by congregation deliberation, svato mitho, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ, or by the instruction of the spiritual master. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha*-vratānām.



*Gṛha-vratānām. Gṛha, there are different meanings of gṛha. Especially gṛha, we mean the home, house. Gṛha-vrata and gṛhastha, they are two different. Gṛhastha means although he is in gṛha, household life, his purpose is to go back to home, back to Godhead. They are called gṛhastha. And whose only purpose is to live at home-decorate the home, decorate the wife, decorate the children and make money to live very comfortably*-they are called gṛha-vrata or gṛhamedhi. They are not gṛhastha. Gṛhastha means although he's living with wife, children, family, but his purpose is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, how to go back home, back. They are called gṛhastha. So gṛhasthāśrama is as good as other āśramas. There are four āśramas. Vedic civilization means four varṇas and four āśramas. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So those who are not following this principle of varṇāśrama-dharma, living like cats and dogs, they also live with wife, children. That sort of living is called gṛha-vrata. Gṛha-vratānām. Matir na kṛṣṇe: "They cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Why? Now, adānta-gobhiḥ. Go means senses. Go means cow. Go means land also. So anyone who has taken the vow of sense gratification... That is the modern world, that "Somehow or other, satisfy senses." They cannot control the senses. Adānta-go. Adānta. Dānta means control. Adānta, not controlled. Adānta-gobhiḥ. So what is that? Viśatāṁ tamisram: "They are going towards hell," because this sense gratification process, unrestricted sense gratification process, he is creating a situation of different mentality and that mentality will be prominent at the time of death, and according to that situation he'll get his next birth.

*Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Therefore we have to become very, very careful. This life I maybe born in big nation, America, or English nation or some other nation or family, but if I create a mentality of cats and dogs or if I do not take advantage of this human form of life*-I remain dull as the trees or the animals-then next life we have to accept a similar body. This is the law of nature. You can say or I can say that "I do not believe in the next life," but that is not the fact. The fact is... Just like if a child says, "I do not believe the next stage or next life, to become a boy," or if a boy says that "I don't believe next stage, to become a young man," so a young man says, "I do not believe that I shall become an old man," that is concoction. The nature's law will drag him, one after another. Similarly, the old man's body, when it is finished, you'll have to accept another body according to your mentality at the time of death. This is the law of nature.

*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the best welfare activities for the human society to save them from a dangerous type of life. It is a very scientific movement. The fools and rascals, they do not know that there is next life and one has to accept a type of body given by nature. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa jantor deha upapatti [SB 3.31.1]. According to karma, the nature... Just like if you infect some disease without any knowledge, so that disease, infection, will develop. If you have infected the small pox germ, then it will develop. You may believe or not believe or you may know or not know. It doesn't matter. Nature's way is like that. Similarly, we are contaminating within this material world different infection of the modes of material nature-sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad yoni janmasu. One is getting higher type of birth, one is getting lower type of birth, why? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya: [Bg. 13.22] the cause is different contamination of the material modes of nature. Therefore in human form of life we should not be irresponsible animals. The animals, they do not know what he is contaminating, what he is going to take birth next. That is nature's way. But when you come to the human form of life, you have got your discrimination. You have to make your choice whether you are going to hell or you are going back to home, back to Godhead. That you have to make your choice.

*If you don't make your choice, if you miss this opportunity, then you are committing suicide. You are knowingly drinking poison. As Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, I have wasted my time without any meaning, without any good result." Why? No, manuṣya-janama pāiyā rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu: "I got this human form of life. It was an opportunity to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but I did not do it. I simply wasted my time in sense gratification. This means knowingly I have drunk poison." So anyone can drink poison if he likes. Nobody can check. But it is a fact that if one does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious in this human form of life, he is drinking poison knowingly. That's a fact.

*So people should be very careful, take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a blind, sentimental religious faith. It is a great science, vijñānam. Jñānaṁ me parama*-guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ pravakṣyāmi yad vijñāna-samanvitam. These are the words. It is vijñāna, a great science. Don't think that "These people are sentimentally chanting and dancing." That is the process, very easy made for this age. But if you think yourself that you are a great scientist, great philosopher, then we have got eighty-four books of four hundred pages. If you have got actually learning, you can study them. We can convince you. And people are becoming convinced. We are selling books all over the world, daily, sixty thousand dollars' worth. People are receiving, and they are appreciating. We have got big, big learned scholars' opinion.

So the idea is that you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise you are drinking poison knowingly. Anyone, it doesn't matter what you are. Either you are Indian or Englishman or American or Hindu or Muslim, it doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. I may say, "Kṛṣṇa; *" you may say some other name. But this human form of life is meant for this purpose, to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. Not vague idea, clear idea what is God, how he looks, what does he do*-so many things we have to know. It is not vague idea. Simply to have a vague idea of God, that is also good, but that is not perfect. You must know that is God. So how you can know God? The God is explaining Himself, coming down for your benefit. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, "I am like this. You see Me. You know Me. I am explaining Myself." And still, if we do not take advantage of understanding God, then just imagine how we are drinking poison knowingly. How rascal we are, that God Himself is explaining before me everything about Him, and we are not taking advantage of this opportunity, and I am thinking I am independent and... This is rascaldom. You are not independent. You are completely under the control of the laws of material nature. How you are independent? So this foolishness must be stopped. That is the purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't remain rascals fools. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy.

Thank you very much.

Indian man: (indistinct) ...praising anyone that can perform even, praying to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the fundamental is the four things. Please explain.



Devotee: He's talking about the four principles which are compulsory to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Yes, because we are now dull brain. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is described as rascal.



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



*This is Kṛṣṇa's words, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he must be in one of these groups. What are the groups? Duṣkṛtinaḥ*-meritorious sinful person. A person is merit. He has got merit. Just like a thief, a rogue, a cheater. He has got merit undoubtedly. Without being meritorious, they cannot be expert thief or expert rogue or expert politician. (laughter) So they have got merit, but duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means merit, and duṣ means abominable. Merit is being used for bad purposes or sinful purposes. They are called duṣkṛtinaḥ. This is one group. Another group-mūḍha. Mūḍha means fools, rascals, or children, those who have no knowledge or one who does not know what is the purpose of life. They are called mūḍhas. And another group is called narādhamāḥ. Naradhāma means the lowest of the mankind. The highest of the mankind is one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, and the lowest, one who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the lowest of the mankind. This human life, human form of life was given to him by laws of nature to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God, but he's not using it. Misusing it. They are called narādhama. And then, next group is māyayāpahṛta jñāna. You can say, "There are so many learned persons. They are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. They are after drinking and eating meat and... They are education." So then, He says that "They are educated. They have so-called educated, but their real knowledge is taken away." Just like one is rich man, but his money is taken away. So these four groups... So why this meritorious person or educated person, they do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? That means dull brain. So in order to make the dull brain suitable for understanding Kṛṣṇa, these four principles of austerities is the first need: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Then his brain, the finer tissues of the brain, will develop to understand Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, not possible.



Devotee: There's one more question, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Indian woman: (Hindi)



Prabhupāda: Pitar, what is this pitar?



Indian man: Forefathers.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So there are different processes. (Hindi)



*yānti deva*-vratā devān

*pitṝn yānti pitṛ*-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

*yānti mad*-yājino 'pi mām

[Bg. 9.25]



(Hindi) (end)





760802LE.NMR

Lecture Excerpt

-

August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm)



*Prabhupāda: ...apratihatā yenātmā samprasīdati. Yena-ātmā samprasīdati. If you want to please yourself... Everyone is trying to please himself, but here is the formula: yenātmā samprasīdati. Ātmā means soul, the Supersoul, the mind and the body also. According to the different position, the ātmā is accepted in different angles of vision. But on the whole we are searching after bodily comforts, mental peace, and satisfaction of the soul and satisfaction of the Supersoul. So this is the only process. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If you engage yourself in devotional service, bhakti, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo... [SB 1.2.6]. And that is the topmost system of religion. There are different religious systems, different parts of the world, of the universe. But the real purpose of religion is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, how to become engaged in the service of the Lord, that is religion. And this service of the Lord cannot be checked. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is not that for certain reason one has to engage himself in devotional service. It is spontaneous. And apratihatā, without any check. Just like we are sitting down here, there is no check. Anywhere we can sit down. Of course, sometimes the climatic condition different, but there are different climates also. In India we have got almost all the year climate like this, except in the rainy season*-that is also not constantly. Therefore India is supposed to be the best place for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because the climate is very suitable. So here also, now this climate. It is not conditional, but you can perform service, kīrtana, without any check. Not that we have to live in that palace, then we can chant. No. We can live, we can sit down underneath a tree and chant. There is no limit. We can go on. So we have to adjust things in such a way that without any condition, without any check, we can go on with our devotional service. Just like we can sit down here or anywhere. Here is the opportunity. This land is very good. You can sit down anywhere and chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. There is no need of chair or cushion or nothing else. Ahaituky apratihatā. Any condition. And yenātmā samprasīdati, that will please your everything-your heart, your mind, your body, your soul, everything. Yenātmā samprasīdati. This is the easiest method for achieving the highest perfection of life. So go on with this process without any check and be happy.



Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)





760816SP.HYD

Excerpt of Speech at Fire Yajña

with South Indian Brāhmaṇas

-

Hyderabad, August 16, 1976



*Prabhupāda: ...down to the Sutala planet. And by accepting the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead... The Lord questioned Śukrācārya, "What was the discrepancy in the performance of yajña arranged by Bali Mahārāja that you cursed him?" Of course, he did not ask that "you cursed him," but it was understood. Śukrācārya admitted that there was no fault. This is the verse. When the Supreme Personality of Godhead is worshiped, there is no discrepancy. In the Kali*-yuga it is said in the śāstras that yajña is now practically impossible; therefore it is recommended yajñair saṅkīrtanair prāyair yajanti hi [SB 11.5.32]. So we are very glad that here in southern portion of India, still there are so many respectable yajñic brāhmaṇas, and we see practically how they have nicely performed the yajñas. Now this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to spread this brahminical culture.



*namo brahmaṇya*-devāya

*go*-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

*jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ



*Jagad*-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya. Kṛṣṇa wants welfare of the whole universe. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. He comes personally. So we are trying to establish this brahminical culture, go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. You'll be very much pleased that in a country where go-hatyā is so prominent, now we have established so many farms in Europe and America. We shall show the pictures how we are giving protection to the cows and how we are trying to revive this brahminical culture all over the world. And they are accepting. It is not that they are rejecting. You can see the presence of so many European and American devotees here. And they are very sincere. They are not superficial. They are very sincere. Their countrymen, the priests, the Christian priests, the Jewish priests, priests, they become surprised that "These young boys, they never cared for any religion or they never cared to come to the church or the synagogue. How they have become so much interested in understanding God as to become a devotee?"



*So my request is that India, especially South India... South India is the place for all the ācāryas. South India is the place of Rāmānujācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī. And we Gauḍīya, Mādhva*-Gauḍīya sampradāya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu belongs to the Mādhavendra Purī sampradāya. Mādhavendra Purī belonged to the Madhva sampradāya; *therefore our sampradāya is known as Brahmā Madhva*-Gauḍīya sampradāya. So the purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to establish this brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. It is lost, but we are trying to revive it. There is good sign. Not only good sign, there is prediction by the authorities, by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He has predicted that all over the world, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma: As many villages and towns are there on the surface of the globe, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement would be spread. So my request is that let us join together, not only in India but all over the world. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order is, kṛṣṇa bhajanati nāhi jāti-kulādi-vicāra. In the matter of executing devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, there is no such distinction wherefrom this man is coming, wherefrom this man is coming. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Even they are coming from the pāpa-yoni, it doesn't matter if one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness-te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. This philosophy should be followed. I especially request the ācāryas, the brāhmaṇas of South India, to take up this cause very seriously. It is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Please do not make any distinction between European Vaiṣṇava, American Vaiṣṇava and Indian Vaiṣṇava. That is my request. And let us combine together and spread this auspicious movement. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's desire.

*bhārata bhūmite manuṣya*-janma haila yāra

*janma sārthaka kari kara para*-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]



*Anyone who has taken birth as a human being on the land of Bhārata*-varṣa... He does not mean the cats and dogs; *He means the human beings. Manuṣya. So in order to fulfill the mission of manuṣya*-janma, we shall try to reestablish the varṇāśrama-dharma, Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58], and spread this movement all over the world. There is no charge. Let us cooperate and do the needful.



Thank you very much. (end)



761017LE.CHA

Address to Rotary Club

-

Chandigarh, October 17, 1976



*Prabhupāda: Ladies and Gentlemen, the President, I am very much thankful to you that you are eager to hear about what Kṛṣṇa wants to speak. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. All ācāryas*-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu, Nimbārka, and latest, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and before that, other ācāryas like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, and before that, the original ācārya, Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva-everyone accepted Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are searching after whether there is God or there is no God. If there is God, what is the nature? What is the form? Whether He is person or imperson? There are so many questions. And to solve all these questions, the God Himself descends and speaks about Himself, and that speaking is this Bhagavad-gītā. God is speaking about Himself personally, personally present. So you can know Him, you can see Him, what He is, what is His function. Just to mitigate all our doubts, God is present here. And Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning of the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā how you can understand God without any doubt and in complete. That is spoken by God Himself.



*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



"My dear Pārtha, Arjuna, in order to know Me, God, asaṁśayam, without any doubt, and samagram," means in completeness, "as you can know Me, I am personally speaking to you." That means if you want to know God, you can know Him when He explains Himself. Otherwise, you cannot speculate. God is unlimited, and your speculative power is limited. So you cannot understand God without the mercy of God. That is the verdict of the Vedic literature. It is very easy to understand. Suppose here is a big man, rich man, learned man. You want to know about him. So you cannot understand him by speculation: "He may be of this standard. He may be like this. He may have so much money." You suggest; *another friend suggests. In this way the study of that particular man is not complete. But if the same person kindly speaks and explains about himself that "Sir, I am like this." (aside:) Water. "My position is like this. I have got so much bank balance," that is the way. This is the way of understanding. It is called descending process. And there is another process, which is called ascending process. In Sanskrit it is called āroha*-panthā, avaroha-panthā. Āroha-panthā... You want to go, to know about the sun planet or any other. Just like they are trying. They are trying to go there, Mars planet, Moon planet, by rising on the sky by their aeroplanes, sputniks. But they have not been able to understand what is the position of these planets. This is called āroha-panthā. But if somebody comes from the planet and explains everything, then you know it very easily. Similarly, God has come to explain Himself. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā.



*This Bhagavad-gītā is recorded in the greater Indian history, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means greater India or greater Bhārata. Greater Bhārata means the whole planet was formerly Bhāratavarṣa. Now it is cut into pieces. Recently we have got experience that Pakistan was also India. Now it is cut out. Similarly, this Bhārata... Bhārata means... Bhāratavarṣa means the sapta-samudra, sapta-dvīpa. This sapta-dvīpa still accepted*-the North America, South America, Asia, Africa, Australia. In this way there are sapta-dvīpa, islands. So that is Bhārata. Now it is cut off under different circumstances. And the capital was this New Delhi or Hastināpura, and the kings, emperors, were the Pāṇḍavas family. So this is the history of greater India. That is called Mahābhārata. So Mahābhārata... In the Mahābhārata this Bhagavad-gītā is set up, and the writer of Mahābhārata is Vyāsadeva himself, and therefore the recorder of the speech, what Kṛṣṇa said in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, is also Vyāsadeva. So Vyāsadeva, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, he says everywhere, bhagavān uvāca. He never says that "I am writing." He says, bhagavān uvāca. That you'll mark, those who have read Bhagavad-gītā. [break] ...tac chṛṇu. Then you'll understand Bhagavān without any doubt and in completeness. Asaṁśayam samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1]. It is very easy. If you simply concentrate your mind on Kṛṣṇa, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18], as Mahārāja Ambarīṣa did, and many other great personalities did it... Arjuna did. Now we are concerned with Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is speaking, and Arjuna is hearing. So what is the situation? The situation is that the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas assembled together on the great battlefield. It is not battlefield, Kurukṣetra; it is dharmakṣetra.

*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



*This is the question by Dhṛtarāṣṭra. Dhṛtarāṣṭra was the father of the Kurus, and the Pāṇḍavas were the five brothers, the sons of the younger brother of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, Mahārāja Pāṇḍu. So Dhṛtarāṣṭra was blind, born blind. Actually he was to inherit*-the eldest son of the family. But on account of his blindness the throne was given to his younger brother, Pāṇḍu. So the sons of Pāṇḍu is known as Pāṇḍavas, and the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra are known as Kurus or Dhṛtarāṣṭra. So after all, politics, it is always very intriguing in all times. So Dhṛtarāṣṭra was very sorry that he could not become the emperor. At least his son should be. Because he was blind, that's all, but his sons were not blind. So naturally father wants... So this is the whole history of Mahābhārata, intriguing, politics, and ultimately there was fight between the two parties, Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, to decide. By logic, by morality and other things, everything failed. Then there was declaration of war. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in that warfield.



Kṛṣṇa was engaged as the chariot driver of the chariot of Arjuna. And while the chariot was brought in the battlefield between the two groups of soldiers... Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta [Bg. 1.21]. Arjuna requested, "My dear Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa was his friend and Kṛṣṇa was familywise related both with the Kurus and Pāṇḍavas. Kṛṣṇa's father and the Pāṇḍavas' mother, they were real brother and sister. In this way there were family relationship, and Kṛṣṇa therefore denied to take part in the actual fighting. The whole world was divided. Some of them joined this party; some of them joined that party. Just like it actually happens when there is big war. Even nowadays, all the nations, they make a group. Some of them forming were forming one group; another some of them, they formed another group. Exactly the same thing was done. Now Kṛṣṇa was the charioteer, but when the chariot was brought in front of the two soldiers' party, Arjuna became little bit disturbed that "I have to fight. On the other side they are my brothers, they are my nephews, they are my gurus, Dronācārya, and they are my grandfather, Bhīṣmadeva. So what kind of fight this is that I have to fight with my friends and relatives and family members?" So he hesitated, that "Kṛṣṇa, what kind of fight this is? They are not my enemies; *they are all family members. So I am not interested in this fight." So he practically decided not to fight. And Kṛṣṇa said that "What is this nonsense? You are a military man, and you have come to fight here, and you are My friend and My relative also, and if you decide not to fight, what people will say?" This is the beginning. Then, after some arguments, Arjuna thought it wise that "Actually, I am a military man and I have come to fight a decision that we shall fight. Now what I am trying to do, to avoid this fighting? Actually it is not my business. I am deviating from my duty." Therefore... (aside:) Find out this, kārpaṇya*-doṣa. Find out.

Pradyumna:



*kārpaṇya*-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ

*pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma*-sammūḍha-cetāḥ

yac chreyaḥ syān niścitaṁ brūhi tan me

śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam

[Bg. 2.7]



Prabhupāda: Translation.



Pradyumna: "Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So Arjuna understood his weakness, his weak point. Therefore he said to Kṛṣṇa that kārpaṇya*-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ. Kārpaṇya, this word, comes from kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa... Kṛpaṇa, this word, is known practically everyone. Kṛpaṇata means miserly. A person who has got enough resources but if he does not use it properly, it is called, he is called a kṛpaṇa, miser. And the opposite word of kṛpaṇa is udhara, or liberal. So there are two words, kṛpaṇa. So Arjuna said, kārpaṇya-doṣa: "I know I can fight. I am quite competent military person, but I am not using my resources; *therefore it is kārpaṇya*-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ." Svabhāvaḥ means naturally a military man, a kṣatriya, is very bold enough to fight. That is one of the qualification of a military man. Yuddhe cāpalāyanam. The śaurya, vīrya, tejaḥ, yuddhe cāpalāyanam, these are the symptoms of kṣatriya. He would never go away from fighting. When there is challenge, fighting, a kṣatriya will never deny. Yuddhe cāpalāyanam. So when kṣatriya, is especially a kṣatriya like Arjuna... He is the best military man of that age, and he was denying to fight. So he could understand his weakness. He said, kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: [Bg. 2.7] "Naturally I should fight, but on account of my crippled decision or miserly decision, I am perplexed." So Kṛṣṇa... He knew Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. "Therefore I am surrendering unto You." What is that? Two, last lines?



Pradyumna: Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam.



Prabhupāda: Śiṣyas te 'ham. Ahaṁ te śiṣya: "I just become Your disciple, and You just educate me. Please enlighten me." This is the position. Before that, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, they were talking like friends. Friends means argument. We can go on arguing for days together, but there is no decision. That is friendly talk. But when there is talk between a master and disciple, there is no question of arguing. The disciple has to accept what is ordered by the master.



So Kṛṣṇa is accepted guru or the spiritual master, and Arjuna says, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Prapannam means that "I am surrendered to You. I don't think myself on the equal level with You." The spiritual master and the disciple, they cannot be on the equal level. Therefore a spiritual master is called guru. Guru means heavy. Just like in the scale we put something this side, something that side. The thing which is weighty, that goes down. Similarly, guru is supposed to be weighty than the śiṣya. So Kṛṣṇa begins to speak when He is accepted as guru; *otherwise He does not speak. Now, our subject matter is "Let Kṛṣṇa speak for Himself." So we have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority. Then His speaking will be useful for us. Otherwise, if we think that Kṛṣṇa is on the equal level-"He is also a historical personality and His education and my education equal and so on, so on"*-so long we think like that, then we cannot hear or understand Kṛṣṇa. But if we take the position of Arjuna-śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam-then Kṛṣṇa will speak to the disciple like Arjuna, and everything will be clear.

*So the point is Bhagavad-gītā is well known all over the world. Not now... Because we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā through this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and millions of people are interested... We have got so many books, and the calculation is already submitted. They are accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement through literature, and big, big scholars, professors, librarian, they are purchasing our books very nicely. The total collection daily is five to six lakhs of rupees. So now this Kṛṣṇa movement is being appreciated all over the world. Unfortunately, although Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in this land of Bhāratavarṣa, Chandigarh, the Kurukṣetra, we do not allow Kṛṣṇa to speak. This is our misfortune. Kṛṣṇa spoke these words of Bhagavad-gītā. Many scholars, many so-called saintly persons, they have misinterpreted the words of Bhagavad-gītā. They did not allow to speak Kṛṣṇa. They wanted to speak on behalf of Kṛṣṇa... Not on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. I am sorry. They wanted to speak about themself. If one speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. But if one manufactures some idea from the words of Kṛṣṇa by misinterpretation and does not allow Kṛṣṇa to speak, it is a great dangerous position. That has become actually the fact in India. Otherwise such a big culture, complete culture... From the Bhagavad-gītā, any question you can raise, the answer is there. Political, social, religious, philosophical, cultural*-any way you study Bhagavad-gītā, the complete answer is there. Therefore our request is that let Kṛṣṇa speak for Himself. Don't try to misinterpret the words of Kṛṣṇa or the words in the Bhagavad-gītā. That will spoil it. Just like in the beginning it is said,

*dharma*-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre

samavetā yuyutsavaḥ

māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva

kim akurvata sañjaya

[Bg. 1.1]



Now this Kurukṣetra... Everyone knows there is a place Kurukṣetra. From time immemorial in the Vedic literature it is mentioned about Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetre dharmam ācaret: "Go to Kurukṣetra and perform ritualistic ceremonies there." So it is dharmakṣetra. So how you can interpret Kurukṣetra as the body? Where is that dictionary, and where is the necessity of interpreting like that? There is no necessity. Interpretation is required when the meaning is not clear. But if the meaning is clear, why should you interpret it unnecessarily? That is malinterpretation, and that is going on. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but somebody says, "He is fictitious. There was no fight like Kurukṣetra. There was no such person as Kṛṣṇa," and "Kṛṣṇa is a person from the black aborigines," so on, so on, so many interpretation. What is the benefit? The benefit is that we have lost our Vedic culture. This is the benefit.



*Therefore our request is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is specially meant for this purpose, that do not try to be overlord of Kṛṣṇa. Don't speak anything manufactured by you on the plea of Kṛṣṇa speaking. If you want to speak something, good or nonsense, you can speak. Everyone has got the freedom to speak about his philosophy, about his thesis. But why through Kṛṣṇa? Why through Bhagavad*-gītā? This is our protest. Let Kṛṣṇa speak Himself as He is and as He wants. Why should you speak by malinterpretation? That is the practice now, that everyone can interpret Bhagavad-gītā as he likes. Then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? Can you interpret the law given by the government in your own way? That is not possible. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa is accepted, He's accepted actually. (aside:) Find out this verse, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Tenth Chapter.

Pradyumna:



paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma

pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān

puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam

*ādi*-devam ajaṁ vibhum

[Bg. 10.12]



āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve

devarṣir nāradas tathā

asito devalo vyāsaḥ

svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me



Prabhupāda: So... Yes. Read it.



*Pradyumna: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all*-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."



*Prabhupāda: So the student of Bhagavad*-gītā, as Arjuna says, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam. After hearing Bhagavad-gītā in detail, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. So one may say that "This is a friendly talk. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So as a friend he accepted." Because Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2].



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



So Arjuna accepted Him, "Yes, you are paraṁ brahma." Brahman and Parabrahman. We, all living entities, we are also Brahman, but we are not Parabrahman. Parabrahman is Kṛṣṇa.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Ete cāṁśa kala*-puṁsāṁ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. These are the verdict of the Vedic literature. Here it is also repeated by Arjuna, that "Not that after hearing You I accept You as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Parambrahman, but formerly Asita, Nārada, Vyāsa, they also accepted it." The next verse?



Pradyumna:



sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye

yan māṁ vadasi keśava

na hi te bhagavān vyaktiṁ

vidur devā na dānavāḥ

[Bg. 10.14]



Prabhupāda: So "I accept all Your instruction." What is again? Read it.



Pradyumna: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye [Bg. 10.14].



*Prabhupāda: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye. This is actually student of Bhagavad*-gītā, not that "The portion which I like, I accept, and the portion I do not like, I reject." This is nonsense. If you want to become the student of Bhagavad-gītā, if you want to derive some benefit out of it, then you should be like Arjuna, like this. He said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye: [Bg. 10.14] "Whatever You say, I accept it." Ṛtam means truth. "Not that I am accepting, but previous to me..." What is the next line?



Pradyumna: Yan māṁ vadasi keśava.



Prabhupāda: Then?



Pradyumna: Na hi te bhagavan vyaktiṁ vidur devā na dānavāḥ.



*Prabhupāda: "Because Your personality cannot be understood even by the demigods, what to speak of ordinary human being." And Kṛṣṇa has said that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto [Bg. 9.11]. The mūḍha, those who deride at Kṛṣṇa, that "He's an ordinary human being," such person is condemned herewith as mūḍha. Mūḍha means ass. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Because he does not know paraṁ bhāvam, what is the background of Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, there are many passages. Anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa and at the same time he declares himself as the student of Bhagavad*-gītā, as a scholar of Bhagavad-gītā, he is misleading himself and misleading his followers. That is the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā and everyone. Bhagavad-gītā has to be understood. In the Fourth Chapter you find out that,



imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

[Bg. 4.1]



*evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

[Bg. 4.2]



*This is paramparā. The truth of Bhagavad*-gītā was first spoken to the sun-god, and he spoke to his son, to Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. And Vaivasvata Manu spoke to his son, Ikṣvāku. And Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Rājarṣaya. This philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, it is meant for the rājarṣi, not for the loafer class. Rājarṣi: king, at the same time, saintly person. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Kṛṣṇa does not say that ordinary scholar or so-called philosopher can understand. Only the rājarṣayo viduḥ. So Arjuna is one of the rājarṣis. So he understood Kṛṣṇa. He says, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12]. So we have to accept this paramparā system. If we take Bhagavad-gītā seriously then we should follow the footprints of Arjuna as he understood. He accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Paraṁbrahman. So what is spoken by Paraṁbrahman, the Supreme Lord, the Supreme Person, how we can interpret His words and squeeze out some meaning and mislead myself and mislead others? This is not good.



*So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to rectify this mistake. Bhagavad*-gītā is the most authorized scripture in the Vedic literature. Vedic literature means it is not spoken by any ordinary human being. Apaureṣaya means this literature, Vedic literature, is spoken directly by the Supreme Person or Lord. So it was instructed through Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. Tene brahma hṛda ādi-kavaye. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Oṁ namo bhāgavate vāsudevāya. These are the Vedānta philosophy's beginning. The Vedānta philosophy begins with the word athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life is meant for inquiring about Brahman. The human life is not meant for any other purpose. That is the distinction between a dog's life and a human being's life. A dog cannot inquire about Brahman. That is not possible. But a human being can inquire about Brahman. Therefore this life is meant for brahma-jijñāsā about Brahman. So if we accept these aphorisms of the Vedānta-sūtra... Vedānta-sūtra is supposed to be the most authorized summary, cream of all the Vedas. So Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛd ca aham [Bg. 15.15]. So if we accept these words of Kṛṣṇa, then we become actually Vedānti. Without understanding these things as spoken in the... Bhagavad-gītā is the summarized Vedānta or Vedic philosophy. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, we are not very advanced. About us, it is described in the śāstra, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ, prāyeṇālpayuṣaḥ kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. In this age, Kali-yuga, we are living not very long time. In Kali-yuga, the duration of life will be reduced so much, gradually, that if a person lives for twenty to thirty years, he'll be considered a grand old man. That day is coming. Now we have got practical experience. Our grandfather or father lived for so many years, but we are not living for so many years. Our sons will not live so many years. In this way the duration of life, the memory, the mercifulness, the bodily strength-everything will be reduced. This is already foretold in the śāstras. So therefore in this age we are all short-living, mandāḥ, very slow or bad, and sumanda-matayo. Everyone has got a obnoxious opinion about philosophy, about the goal of life. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo, and manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate also. The description, if we try to describe, it will take long time. The short-cut description is there: mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. At the same time, disturbed always. This material world means always disturbed condition, but in this age, Kali-yuga, the disturbance is more and more.

*So under the circumstances, it is out of Kṛṣṇa's kindness that making Arjuna as a target of His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā, He has given us this valuable instruction. We should accept it as it is. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, without any malinterpretation. Take Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You'll be benefited. And so far as brahma-jijñāsā, the Kṛṣṇa begins with this aphorism of brahma-jijñāsā. When Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa that "I am Your now disciple. There is no need of friendly talks. You can give me instruction seriously because I am surrendered to You, and You give me the real instruction," so the first instruction was, as soon as Arjuna submitted... Because unless you submit, it is useless to talk because you'll not hear. Therefore to accept an authority is submission. First thing is, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Unless you submit, if you think yourself that you are a very big scholar, very learned scholar and very good philosopher*-you don't require any instruction from guru-then there is no possibility. The first thing is Kṛṣṇa instructs in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. If you want to know the substance, then the first thing is that you must be submissive, praṇipāta. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. You fall down. Therefore the system is: the disciple falls flat before the spiritual master. That is the etiquette, praṇipātena. And if you think that you know better than Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative, the guru, there is no necessity of accepting guru. Do not keep a guru as a pet dog. No. You must be submissive. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. This is wanted. That Kṛṣṇa... That is the example given by Arjuna. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. This prapannam is required.

So when Arjuna submitted, then Kṛṣṇa spoke. The first speaking was that,

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

*prajñā*-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

[Bg. 2.11]



*"Arjuna, you are talking with Me*-of course, you are My friend-on equal level. You are talking just like a very learned man." You have read in the Bhagavad-gītā. He submitted his proposition, that "How can I kill my..., the other side? They are my brothers, and if the brothers are dead, my sister-in-laws will be widow and they will be polluted, and there will be varṇa-saṅkara. And so..." These things are facts, but Kṛṣṇa says that "You are simply taking calculation of the body. Body. You have no spiritual calculation. The life is meant for spiritual understanding, athāto brahma jijñāsā. But you have no such understanding. You have no such knowledge, and still you are speaking." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "You are talking like a very learned man, but My dear friend, you are not learned." He said in a different way. Agatāsūn. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Because this body... You are thinking in terms of bodily relationship, but a paṇḍita, a learned scholar... Actually he is learned scholar when he does not lament for this body, either alive or dead." This is the first instruction. This body is already dead. It is matter, dead matter. But you should try to understand the living spirit within this body. The next verse He said that,



dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

*tathā dehāntara*-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

[Bg. 2.13]



*This is knowledge, beginning of knowledge. Try to understand about the soul, the part of Parabrahman, the spark of Parabrahman, the spirit soul. That is within this body. So "You are lamenting on this body, but you have no information of the active principle within the body." So nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ: "So this is not the statement of a paṇḍita." In other way He... He is friend. Or as śiṣya..., that "This kind of things never happens in the case of a paṇḍita." That means, "My dear friend, you are apaṇḍita. You are not paṇḍita." One who does not know about the spirit soul, he is not a paṇḍita. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. This transmigration of the soul... Just like you condole d one Rotarian who has died. But Kṛṣṇa says, dhīras tatra na muhyati. "Yes, he's not dead. He has transmigrated to another body. He's not dead." That is the... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, that "Don't think that because the body is annihilated, therefore the person is annihilated. No." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "That soul never takes birth, never dies." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne [Bg. 2.20]. This is the first instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā. There are so many students of Bhagavad-gītā, but because they are not actually paṇḍita, they do not take account of the simple thing, how the soul transmigrates from one body to another. This is the position. And therefore we should not continue to remain apaṇḍitāḥ, nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ, and lament. So long we are not paṇḍitāḥ, our business is to lament and to hanker. We lament what is lost, and we hanker what is not in our possession. This is material disease. So when we understand that ahaṁ brahmāsmi... That hint is given by Kṛṣṇa, that asmin dehe dehinaḥ: "The proprietor of the body is there, asmin dehe. On account of presence of the proprietor of the body, the body is changing." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. The kaumāra, the childhood, the boyhood, the youthhood-these changes of body is taking place on account of presence of the dehina. So where is this education all over the world? There is no such education. But there is knowledge. This is Bhagavad-gītā. We don't take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā; therefore there is no such education, athāto brahma jijñāsā, or to understand Brahman.



*So everything is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, and you have got a nice club. So I request you to discuss on the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. Then it will be beneficial for your club. Because Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... You have heard the name of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. In New Delhi there is a Cāṇakya Purī. He was a great politician, very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa and great moralist also. So he has instructed about this Brahman knowledge in various ways. So our point is that we should not spoil this life. We should utilize every moment of our life very properly. This Cāṇakya Pandit I am referring because he has given very good instruction how to utilize our life. He says,

āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi

*na labhyaḥ svarṇa*-koṭibhiḥ

na cen nirarthakaṁ nītiḥ

kā ca hānis tato 'dhikā



*We are calculating of loss and gain. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that "Even one moment of our life, if it is lost, then you cannot get it back even by paying hundreds and thousands of dollars." One moment of this day, if it is lost, you cannot get it back by paying hundreds and thousands of dollars. So if the moments of your life is spent uselessly, then how much loss you are suffering, you just imagine. Therefore our request is that we have got this valuable life, human form of life, bahu*-sambhavānte, after many, many births in the evolutionary process. Now we should try to understand what is Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Don't spoil it otherwise. And that brahma-jijñāsā and answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Bhagavad-gītā instruction is given just to bring you back to Brahman consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not this bodily consciousness. Bodily consciousness is there in the dog and the cat. So that is not very glorification. We should come to the Brahman consciousness, then brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. Then you'll be jubilant. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati-samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. And when you come to that platform of understanding Brahman, then there is question of sama, samatā. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. And on that stage you can attain the parā-bhakti, or devotional life to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*So that is our propaganda, and we are trying to bring people to that stage of parā*-bhakti. That parā-bhakti is achievable by the simple method, as Kṛṣṇa said,

*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā...

[Bg. 7.1]



*Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa, why should you surrender unto Him? Parā*-bhakti begins when you surrender. So that takes place [break] ...the darkness of bodily conception of life. That is condemned in the Vedic literature. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].



*yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

*sva*-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijyadhīḥ

*yat*-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

*sa eva go*-kharaḥ

[SB 10.84.13]



*If we keep ourself on the bodily concept of life, and then we are defeated. This is the verdict of the śāstra. Parābhavas tāvad abodha*-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long you are not inquisitive about your Brahman identification, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then whatever you are doing, that is defeat. That is not advancement. So with these words I shall request you that in your club you cultivate this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā and utilize your time fully and just try to make your life successful.



Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



770115LE.ALL

Morning Lecture

-

Allahabad, January 15, 1977



*Prabhupāda: So people do not understand that there is life after death. But Bhagavān says, "Yes, there is life after death." Tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. So dehāntara-prāpti, two kinds of dehāntara-prāpti, either towards the hell or towards heaven, towards liberation and towards bondage. So liberation means mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. We want liberation. Then mahat-sevā, we have to take shelter of mahātmā. And if you want to go to the darkest region of material existence, then yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam, sense enjoyment... Yoṣit means woman. So the last resort of sense enjoyment is sex life. So if we indulge in sex life, then yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Not only directly we indulge in sex life, but even indirectly we associate with persons who are only interested in sex life... The whole world is interested in sex life. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etat. This material world is existing on this mithunī-bhāva. So tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Therefore you'll find in the Vedic way of life, sex indulgence is restricted. If we indulge in sex life than it is absolutely required, then we are gliding towards hellish condition of life. And if we follow the path of mahātmās, mahat-sevā, that is dvāram āhur vimukteḥ. We are making progress towards liberation.



*So this is a chance. This Kumbhamelā is a chance to get opportunity of mahat*-sevā. Mahat-sevā dvāram āhur vimukteḥ. Many... Of course, it is Kali-yuga. There are so many so-called mahātmās in dress for earning livelihood. That kind of mahātmā is not required. Mahātmā is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Actually we have to associate with such mahātmā who is su-durlabhaḥ, not very easily obtainable. And who is that su-durlabhaḥ mahātmā? That is also described.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*So you'll get so many mahātmās who are declaring atheism: "There is no God. I am God. You are God. Where you are searching out God? The God is loitering in the street, the daridra*-nārāyaṇa." If you associate with such mahātmā, so-called... They are not mahātmās. They are durātmās. So be careful that you may not mistake who is mahātmā. Mahātmā, very simple thing: mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā has nothing to do with this material world. They are under the care of daivī-prakṛti, spiritual world. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivī prakṛti... [Bg. 9.13], bhajanty ananya-manaso. The symptom is that he's fully engaged in serving Kṛṣṇa. Mām. Kṛṣṇa is original, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to catch up the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. It is not very easy, but it can be done if we have got intelligence. Intelligence is... That Kṛṣṇa says. (aside:) Who is that making sound? Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately... Of course, we must take sincerely, not a show. Everything is seriously. Then immediately we become on the path of mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2].



*So... And this line of devotional service is sevā, service. Ultimately we are all servants, but in the absence of being mahātmā, we are serving māyā. Service is there. We cannot become master. That is not possible. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. So there are two things: Kṛṣṇa and māyā, light and shadow. If you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, then you have to serve māyā. And those who are serving māyā in the name of Kṛṣṇa, they are called Māyāvādī. Actually, they are serving māyā, but they say that they have become liberated. Vimukta*-māninaḥ. They are described as vimukta-māninaḥ. Māninaḥ means one who is not actually the thing, but falsely one is thinking that "I am liberated. I have become equal with Nārāyaṇa." They are called vimukta-māninaḥ. Actually that is not the fact. So we shall be very careful to avoid this kind of mahātmās who are thinking themselves as Nārāyaṇa, equal to Nārāyaṇa, or sometimes they claim greater than Nārāyaṇa. So we shall be very careful. This Melā, there are so many so-called mahātmās. But the symptom of mahātmā is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhajanty ananya-manaso. That is the qualification. And to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, it is not at all difficulty. There is no difficulty. Anyone can become. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Even lowborn, they can also take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, and what to speak of... Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33]. If actually qualified brāhmaṇas, they take shelter, what to speak of... Their progress is very quick. Punyā. Without puṇyā background, sukṛti, nobody can take birth in the family or society of brāhmaṇas.

So brāhmaṇa... First of all, we have to become pure brāhmaṇa.

satya śamo dama titikṣa ārjava

*jñānaṁ*-vijñānam āstikyaṁ

*brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam

[Bg. 18.42]



*These are the brahminical qualification. Unfortunately, nobody is interested to become a brāhmaṇa, and what to speak of becoming a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is above the brāhmaṇas. Ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ. Brāhmaṇa's business is sat-karma: paṭhan pāṭhan yajan yājan dāna pratigraha. So even a brāhmaṇa is very expert in this brāhmaṇa's business, paṭhan pāṭhan... He has studied Vedas very thoroughly, and he has many students whom he has taught the Vedic knowledge. This is paṭhan pāṭhan. Yajan yājan: he is expert in worshiping the Deity, and he teaches other disciples also. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgara-tan-mandira-mārj anādau **. So there are brāhmaṇas who are not Vaiṣṇava, worshiper of demigods other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such brāhmaṇa is not required. Such brāhmaṇas are condemned. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. Anya-devatāḥ. The Viṣṇu is the original devatā, and then next devatā, Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, and then others. So they are all anya-devatāḥ. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. So one has to worship Viṣṇu. That is Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇur asya devatā iti vaiṣṇavaḥ. Vaiṣṇava means that he's not worshiper of any other demigods. There is no question of disrespect for any other demigods. But śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. But to take shelter of and to worship is recommended to the Supreme Lord-mām ekam*-not everyone. We can show our respectful obeisances even to the ant, but worshipable Deity, or God, is Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu-tattva.



*There are many forms of Viṣṇu-tattva. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. He's expanded in many forms: Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha... There are so many incarnation of Viṣṇu-tattva. They're all one. Advaitam acyutam anādi ananta-rūpam. So Viṣṇu-tattva, worshipable, or Kṛṣṇa-tattva, worshipable. And to pin our staunch faith in Viṣṇu, we should discuss about Viṣṇu-tattva and not Viṣṇu-tattva (?). That is called siddhānta. Siddhānta boliyā citte nā kara alasa: "Don't be lazy to discuss about siddhānta." Ihā haite kṛṣṇe lāge sudṛḍha mānasa: "The more you discuss the thesis*-not thesis; *the factual presentation of Viṣṇu*-tattva, māyā, and jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva-then it will be clear what is Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. We should try to understand this fact, that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, and if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your all other duties automatically... The same example, as we have given: If you pour water on the root of the tree, then all other duties are automatically done. There is no question of separate attempt-philanthropy, philosophy and nationalism, this "ism," that "ism." We have discovered so many things and diversion of the real duty. That we shall have to concentrate. That is siddhānta.

siddhānta boliyā citte nā kara alasa

iha haite kṛṣṇe lāge sudṛḍha mānasa



We become more and more faithful to Kṛṣṇa by understanding the siddhānta.



*So māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva... [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. For kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, to avoid this Māyāvādī philosophy that "Everyone is God. I am God. You are God..." This is atheism. It is cheating atheism. One class of atheism is Śūnyavādī: "There is no God." That we can understand, that he is atheist. "There is no God." He publicly declares, "We don't believe in God." But the Māyāvādīs are dangerous because they say that there is God, but without any form-no head, no leg. If you make "no, no, no," then where is...? It becomes zero ultimately. Go on making "no, no"-"No head, no tail, no hand, no..." So what remains? So this is another trick for saying there is no God. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that this class, who gives the negative definition of God-"Not this, not this, not this, not this"*-the Māyāvādī, Māyā... They say, "Not this. This is māyā." So this Māyāvādī, they are greater atheist.

veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta nāstika

*vedāśraya nāstikya*-vāda bauddhake adhika



So it is very dangerous to associate with Māyāvādīs. Of course, those who are kaniṣṭha... Who are fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can mix with anyone. Nobody can influence. They are protected. If one has become pure devotee, for preaching work he can go anywhere. [break] (end)





770119LE.BHU

Evening Lecture

-

Bhuvaneśvara, January 19, 1977



Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.



Hari-śauri: Spectacles?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. I can speak in three languages, English, Bengali and Hindi. But I cannot speak in Oriya. Now our Gaura*-Govinda Mahārāja, he has agreed to translate into Oriya from English. So as you desire, I can speak either in English, Hindi or Bengali.



Indian man: English.



Prabhupāda: I shall speak in English. If I speak in English, then these foreigners, they will also understand, and it can be translated into Oriya. So? I shall speak in English? That's all?



Hari-śauri: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: You say yes. (laughter) So, of course, English is international language, and because we are speaking in English, publishing in English, it has been possible to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout the whole world. (Bengali) (Gaura*-Govinda translates) So we have first of all presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is in English. Now it is being translated practically in all the languages of the world. (translated throughout) Our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is has been translated in all the European languages, namely French, German, Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, in this way, in Europe. Whole America speaks in English. Whole Australia speaks in English. Besides that, in Asia, Chinese language and Japanese language, they have all translated.



*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for saving the whole human society. The present moment... Not in the present. In this material world always the attempt is to defy the supremacy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. At the present moment the so*-called scientists, their only business is how to defy the supremacy of God. Naturally our, this movement has to face many impediments because at the present moment the whole world is practically godless. Even in our country, in India, where Bhagavad-gītā was spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, even here also the same attempt is going on. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they take Bhagavad-gītā in their hand as if he is a great authority in Bhagavad-gītā, but they are presenting commentation just to defy Kṛṣṇa. So we take them according to Bhagavad-gītā. So Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. That is the verdict of the śāstra, and Kṛṣṇa personally, when He was present before us, He said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "Nobody is greater authority than Me." In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, this life, this human form of life, is meant for making inquiry about the Supreme. That Brahman, the Supreme... Brahman means bṛhatvad bṛhannatvad, the greatest which includes everything. That is Brahman. Just like we are, we living entities, we are Brahman. Because I am the spirit soul, I am within this body; *therefore everything is complete. So in the Bhagavad*-gītā this brahma-jijñāsā, "What is Brahman?" if you are inquisitive, the answer is in the very beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā.

*So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, giving the first instruction to Arjuna, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir [Bg. 2.13]. The Brahman, the spirit soul, the part and parcel of Parabrahman, is dehi. Asmin dehe. In this body he is the proprietor of the body. Dehi and deha. Deha means this body, and dehi means the proprietor of the body. So that dehi, or the proprietor of the body, is Brahman. Brahma-jijñāsā. If we are inquisitive to know about Brahman, first of all we must know that I or you, any spirit soul, is Brahman, and he's within this body. We are not the... Other words, we are not this body; *we are within this body. This is brahma*-jñāna. In another place also, the same thing has been affirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra kṣetrajñaḥ. Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is kṣetra and what is kṣetrajña?" That answer is given in the Thirteenth Chapter: idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetram ity abidhīyate. It has been explained that this kṣetra... Just like we work in the field, the owner of the field and the field, similarly, this body is the field, and the owner, the dehi, I or you, we are working on this field, kṣetrajña. And Kṛṣṇa says also, kṣetrajñaṁ cāpy māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He... Because sometimes foolishly we think that we are also Bhagavān or equal to Bhagavān, kṣetrajña, so Kṛṣṇa says, "I am also kṣetrajña, but the difference is that sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata." (aside:) Now explain. Just like I am kṣetrajñam; you are kṣetrajñam. You know the pains and pleasure of your body; *I know the pains and pleasure of my body. But either you or I do not know what is the pains and pleasure of your body, and you do not know what is the pains and pleasure of my body. So that is the difference between ātmā and Paramātmā. Kṛṣṇa is Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūteṣu hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati. That Paramātmā... I am also with Him. I am also living within the heart, and Kṛṣṇa is also living within the heart.

*So there are two ātmās, namely ātmā and Paramātmā. This is explained in the Upaniṣad, that "There are two birds on one tree. This tree is this body, and the two birds, one is ātmā and the other is Paramātmā." So one bird is simply witnessing what the other bird is doing, and the other bird, jīvātmā, he is eating the fruit. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that,

*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



That īśvara, that Paramātmā, is sitting also within this body, but He's observing what the jīvātmā wants to do. According to that, He is supplying a machine. This machine means this body, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This machine is manufactured by the external energy, māyā. So therefore we are jīvātmā; we are different from the Paramātmā. Those who are equalizing Paramātmā and jīvātmā, they are not in perfect knowledge. Either purposefully they are misleading, or they do not know the perfect knowledge.



*At the present moment this danger is there in a very large quantity. People are thinking wrongly that they are also God, as good as God. In the Bhagavad*-gītā the statement is, Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Jīva-bhūta is the living entities. "They are My part and parcel." So it is an axiomatic truth: part is never equal to the whole. Āṁśi. So just like this finger is the part of my body, but it does not mean the finger is the whole body. Therefore there is distinction between Brahman and Parambrahman, īśvara and Parameśvara, ātmā and Paramātmā. So īśvara means controller, one who controls, but Parameśvara means the controller of the controller. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara... All of us may be īśvara. I am īśvara amongst my disciples. You may be īśvara amongst your family members. But none of us is Parameśvara. So this mistaken knowledge is very much spread at the present moment. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is specially meant for removing this misconception of understanding God and the jīvas. So our first principle is that we have to discard or disregard the persons who are very much anxious to establish that īśvara and Parameśvara, or the living entity and the Supreme Person, they are equal. We do not support this theory. It is said in the śāstra,

yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahma*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvenaiva vīkṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

[Cc. Madhya 18.116]



Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nārāyaṇaṁ devam, if we equalize Him even with such demigods, such big personalities like Brahmā and Śiva, then we become a pāṣaṇḍī.



yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ

*brahma*-rudrādi-daivataiḥ

samatvenaiva vīkṣeta

sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam



*Anyone, what to speak of with ordinary person, even personalities, big, big personalities like Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva, if one equalize Nārāyaṇa, then he is called a pāṣaṇḍī. At the present moment a poor man has been equalized with Nārāyaṇa as daridra*-nārāyaṇa. So why one should say daridra-nārāyaṇa? What is the reason? Nārāyaṇa is Lakṣmī-pati, the husband of the goddess of fortune. How He can become daridra-nārāyaṇa? And where is this word in the śāstra, "daridra-nārāyaṇa"? So in this way people are being misled.



*So we have to save ourself from this misconception of life. Then we can make progress in the matter of understanding what is God. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as it is, without any deviation, and people are appreciating. Our, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is is being accepted by big, big scholars and professors. We have got innumerable certificates or their opinion, and it is being well received. And from monetary point of view also, you'll be surprised that we are selling millions of copies of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So we have come to your city to say something about Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. If respectable persons of this city will come and attend this meeting, I shall try to explain more and more so long I am present here. Now, if you have got any question on the subject matter I have spoken, you can make. I shall try to answer. (pause) So there is no question, I think. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now a kīrtana.

Rāmeśvara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)





770121LE.BHU

Lecture

-

Bhuvaneśvara, January 21, 1977



Prabhupāda: Just like a student is admitted in the school for learning ABCD, and if he follows the rules and regulations and continues his studies regularly, then one day he would be able to pass M.A. examination, so from the very beginning we have to execute these processes because our life is impure at the present moment, and we have to purify this life.



tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena damena vā

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

[SB 6.1.13]



*These things are there in the śāstra. We have to execute tapasya, austerity, to purify. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. So it is not a formality. It is a process to become free from this material bondage and go back home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. We should be very serious, not that to take initiation as a matter of fashion, but it should be very carefully and seriously done. [break] Human life is meant for this purpose. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. If you do not inquire about Brahman, if you simply inquire, "Where is food? Where is sense gratification...?" The whole world is going like that. Anywhere you go, the inquiry is, "Where is sense gratification? Where is sex? Where is safety, and where is eating?" This is the inquiry generally. The cats, dogs, birds, beast*-everyone is inquiring like that. In the morning you'll find the birds are chirping, "Now it is morning. Where we have to go to have our necessities of life?" This is the inquiry of this material body. But when you get this human form of body, the inquiry should be different. Explain this. (Gaura-govinda translates) [break]



So Narottama das Ṭhākura sings,

hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā

jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu



So we should always remember song of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. He is ācārya. He's guru. Ācāryopāsanam. Ācārya upāsanā is one of the process of making progress. So this song is very important.



hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā

jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu



*(aside:) Explain. [break] In the material world everyone is suffering. There is no exception, either rich man or poor man, learned or fool*-everyone. This is the place for suffering. And if we take this place of suffering as comfortable, that is our ignorance. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, biṣāya biṣānale dibā-niśi hiyā jwale taribare nā koinu upāy golokera prema-dhana hari-nāma saṅkīrtana rati nā jaṅmilo kene tāy. (aside:) Explain. [break] So Narottama says that we should take advantage of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's and Nityānanda Prabhu's presence. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo harināme uddhārilo tāra śākṣī jagāi and mādhāi, brajendra nandana jei śacī-suta hoilo sei balarāma hoilo nitāi, that "Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. Formerly He was Brajendranandana." Brajendranandana. Brajendra is Mahārāja, Nanda Mahārāja. And He accepted father-Nanda Mahārāja. Nandanandana. "Same Nandanandana has now become Śacīnandana." Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mother's name is Śacīdevī. So brajendra-nandana jei śacī-suta hoilo sei. "Who was formerly Brajendra-nandana, He has now become Śacīnandana. And formerly who was Balarāma, He has become Nitāi." Brajendranandana hei śacī-suta hoilo sei balarāma hoilo nitāi. So why They have come again? Now, pāpī tāpī yata chilo harināme uddhārilo: "They have come to deliver all kinds of sinful men, suffering humanity, just allowing to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra." Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, harināme uddhārilo. So what is the evidence how papi tapi were delivered? Tāra śākṣī jagāi and mādhāi.



So there is no hopelessness. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu is there. If we take shelter of Their lotus feet, there is no hopelessness. But we should not commit any more sinful activities. Then They will deliver us from these clutches of māyā. (end)



770123LE.BHU

Evening Lecture

-

Bhuvaneśvara, January 23, 1977



Prabhupāda: So we shall continue that Rāmānanda? No. So who will read and explain?



Indian man: So shall I read from the First Chapter?



Prabhupāda: No. Where he was.



Hari-śauri: You won't be speaking, Śrīla Prabhupāda?



*Prabhupāda: No. He will explain in Oriya. [break] ...that is Vedic culture. As yesterday we were talking of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas and four āśrama-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-so the Vedic culture means to execute the varṇāśrama-dharma. Now we are known as Hindus. The Hindu word is not to be found... [break] A little disturbance will mar the situation. So, Vedic culture means this varṇāśrama-dharma. The Muhammadans from the other side of river Sindhu, they have called us Hindu. Actually, this word "Hindu" you'll not find any Vedic scripture. So to accept this position-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa*-is compulsory. It is not that one has to take sannyāsa as a fashion. No. Actually it is absolutely necessary for any person at the last stage of life to accept sannyāsa. This Rāmānanda Rāya also retired from the government service. He met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised him that "Now you retire from your governorship and come to Jagannātha Purī, your home, and let us talk together about spiritual life." So in this way he retired. So all the associates of Caitanya Mahāprabhu-śrī-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha śrī-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha-Six Gosvāmīs, the direct disciples of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they were all in renounced order of life. Then? Read. You read. You'll hear.



Indian man (2): "Although the Gosvāmīs were very aristocratic, they became mendicant just to deliver the fallen souls according to the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu."



*Prabhupāda: About Gosvāmīs, Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, he has written, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. (child talking) (aside:) Please take out. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. They were ministers. Naturally their associates were very, very big zamindars and rich men, aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. Maṇḍala-pati means leaders, social, political. So, gave up their company. Explain. Why? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Dīna-gaṇeśakau, the poor mass of people... We are thinking that we are advancing, but actually we are becoming poverty-stricken. So this very word is used, dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā. So this time is always. Unless the social leaders, the leaders of the society, they take care of the mass of people to educate them, dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā, if they do not become compassionate to the poor mass of people, who will deliver them?



They are poor because they have no spiritual conception of life. So that situation is always existing; *therefore it is the duty of the leaders of the society, especially of the brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas, to take sannyāsa and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the mass of people. Dīna*-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Now we have got experience that many big, big leaders in political field... We have seen this noncooperation movement. They also took sannyāsa practically. But they could not live long because they could not tolerate the position of renouncement. But about the Gosvāmīs it is said,

*tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat

*bhūtvā dīna*-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau

*gopī*-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau...



*There must be engagement, proper engagement. If the engagement is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then this so*-called sannyāsa will be failure. Practically in Calcutta there was a big barrister, C. R. Das, he renounced everything, but he could not live long. Very shortly he died. [break] ...was their position. [break] Sannyāsa means to renounce for the Supreme, sannyāsa. Sat-nyāsa. If one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and if he renounces family life and preaches Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he will be happy, and the persons amongst whom he will preach, they will be happy. We have seen practically, many, many big, big sannyāsīs, they gave up this world-brahma satya jagan mithyā: "This world is mithyā. Let me take sannyāsa." But unfortunately, they could not stand in that position. After few years they come down again in social work, in political work. That means they could not understand what is Brahman. That is stated, confirmed in the śāstra, that



*ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta*-māninas

*tvayy asta*-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ

*patanty adho 'nādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ

[SB 10.2.32]



*Ye 'nye 'ravindakṣa. Ye aravindakṣa. Aravindakṣa is Kṛṣṇa. "Persons who are thinking that 'I have become liberated,' vimukta*-mānina, they're actually... They're not mukta. Therefore," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam, "although they underwent very severe austerities and achieved the position in nirviśeṣa-brahma," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32], "but because they could not understand, my Lord, Your lotus feet, they," patanty adho, "they fall down." Just like in the modern age they are going very high by aeroplane or sputnik, but because they do not get a shelter in either the moon planet or Mars planet, they again come down. So simply speculative knowledge, philosophical knowledge, will not give us actual shelter in the nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-brahman. Absolute Truth we can realize in three stages. This is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,



*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*Yes. The brahmānu-bhūti is simply negation of this material world. Brahmā satya jagan mithyā. But brahmānu-bhūti is not final. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So simply understanding of our eternity-ahaṁ brahmāsmi*-is not sufficient. So that is only appreciation of the eternity portion. And then, if one further makes progress, he... Paramātmā. Paramātmā means cit, cid-āṁśa. And lastly, unless we come to the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, there is no ānanda. And every one of us-ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). God is also ānandamaya. We, being part and parcel of God, we are also seeking after ānanda. So you cannot get permanent ānanda either by Brahman realization or Paramātmā realization. Unless you come to God realization, Personality of Godhead, there is no ānanda.



*ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis

*tābhir ya eva nija*-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ

*goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.37]



*Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, is ānanda*-cinmaya-rasa. He is in the ānanda cinmaya. His ānanda is not jara-rasa. It is cinmaya-rasa. We should not understand or misunderstand Kṛṣṇa's līlā is just like ordinary human activity. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has described this Kṛṣṇa's ānanda, that,



*rādhā kṛṣṇa*-praṇaya-vikrtir hlādinī śaktir asmād

*ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha*-bhedaṁ gatau tau

*śrī*-caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptam...

[Cc. Ādi 1.5]



*So we should understand Kṛṣṇa, how He is ānanda-cinmaya vigraha. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is ānanda-cinmaya vigraha, combination of hlādinī śakti, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, and Kṛṣṇa together. Therefore the Vaiṣṇava sings, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. If we take shelter of the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then there is possibility to understand the Kṛṣṇa science.



So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to impregnate or push this movement throughout the world through the mercy of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. And actually it is happening. By taking shelter of the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, these Europeans and Americans, although they are supposed to be born in mleccha, yavana family, they are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness so seriously. Otherwise it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



Out of many many millions of persons, one is interested how to become perfect. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhi means to understand one's own position. Therefore we request everyone to take shelter of the lotus feet of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to understand Kṛṣṇa. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī he has given his direction,



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*Idea is Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, offering his obeisances to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, namo mahā*-vadānyāya: "The greatest munificent charitable person because You are giving Kṛṣṇa-prema. Nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa, but You are giving Kṛṣṇa-prema." Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. "You are Kṛṣṇa. You have appeared again as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. Therefore I offer my obeisances." Similarly Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, who was the learned scholar, paṇḍita, in the assembly of Mahārāja Pratāparudra... [break] ...sabhā-paṇḍita. So he also has written many verses. One of them is that,



*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*"This Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the same person." Vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti. "In order to teach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, He has now appeared as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Śāśvata-purāṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Purāṇa. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa nava-yauvanaṁ ca [Bs. 5.33]. He's the oldest person, ādi-puruṣa, but nava-yauvana. So in every way you'll find that if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then we have to take shelter of this Kṛṣṇa's renounced order of life in the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu.



*So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu's one of the confidential devotees was an Oriya, this Rāmānanda Rāya and Śikhi Māhiti. So it is a great opportunity for the Oriyas to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness science through the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We are discussing the talks between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Rāmānanda Rāya. You'll kindly hear and take advantage of it and be benefited. [break] So we can, if they require, any question*-answer. [break]

Guest (1): ...Kṛṣṇa consciousness in gṛhastha āśrama?



Prabhupāda: They follow Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya. He was a gṛhastha. He was a responsible government officer. Still, he was the best disciple of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Rāmānanda Rāya, while talking with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he was feeling little shamefulness because Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a great sannyāsī and coming from a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, and Rāmānanda Rāya, he belonged to the Kharan(?) caste of Orissa, and he was gṛhastha, at the same time in government service. So he was feeling little shamefulness, that "I am teaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu." So when he was feeling like that, Caitanya Mahāprabhu encouraged him,



kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya

*yei kṛṣṇa*-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

[Cc. Madhya 8.128]



"You become a sannyāsī or you become a gṛhastha or you are a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to do with these material things. If you know actually what is Kṛṣṇa, then you can become guru." Another place also, Kṛṣṇa, er, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that



yei bhaje sei baḍa abhakta hīna chāra

*kṛṣṇa*-bhajane te nāhi jāti-kulādi-vicāra

[Cc. Antya 4.67]



*"Anyone who is a devotee, he is great, and who is not devotee, he may declare himself as great, but he is the most fallen." In the devotional service there is no such distinction as jāti and kula. So if you follow-the example is there in your country, Rāmānanda Rāya-then wherever you are, you are exalted. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he has also said*-he is ācārya-gṛhe vā vanete thāke hā gaurāṅga bale ḍāke narottama māge tāra saṅga: "It doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or he's a sannyāsī." Vanete means vānaprastha, sannyāsī. "Wherever he may be, if he's actually a perfect devotee of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, I want his association. Never mind." Gṛhe vā vanete thāke hā gaurāṅga bale ḍāke narottama māge tāra saṅga.



*So Kṛṣṇa bhajana is so magnanimous, so exalted, in any position you can become the greatest guru, provided you follow the footsteps of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. [break] ...says how one can become perfect. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things. Simply think of Kṛṣṇa, this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra-Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare... So you remain gṛhastha. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, nāmāśraya kari thākaha āpana kāje. In whatever occupation you are, remain there. There is no need of changing. But nāmāśraya kari. If you remain a gṛhastha, what is your loss if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra? And if there is gain, why don't you take it? Simple thing. And Kṛṣṇa also says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. These four things will get you back to home, back to Godhead. What is that? Simply think of Kṛṣṇa. But if from the very beginning you want to understand the meaning of Kṛṣṇa-"Kṛṣṇa is nirākāra. He has no hand, He has no leg"-then how you'll think of Kṛṣṇa? You have to give up all this nonsense idea. Then wherever you live, you will be perfect by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. [break] ...Kali-yuga the special advantage is that people cannot become very much advanced in spiritual life, but for Kali-yuga there is a special concession. Kalau nāsty nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, it is confirmed, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅga paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]. So you remain gṛhastha. It is now difficult to give up gṛhastha life. But don't be merged into this black hole. Don't make black hole tragedy. Be alive, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you'll be happy. So there is no distinction in Kṛṣṇa-bhajana whether one is a gṛhastha or a sannyāsī. He must take the science. Then he will be all right.

Guest (3) (Indian man): ...without taking dīkṣā from the guru also utters the name of Lord Kṛṣṇa with devotion and...



*Prabhupāda: There is no devotion unless you go to a guru. Forget it. Ādau gurvāśrayam. First thing is, first business, is to accept a bona fide guru. Otherwise there is no devotion. It is simply false imitation. This is the injunction of Rūpa Gosvāmī in Bhakti*-rasāmṛta sindhu. Ādau gurvāśrayam: "Your first business is to approach bona fide guru and take his āśraya." Otherwise there is no devotion. That has been the defect in the modern society. They imagine. This business should be given up. He must follow. Sādhu-mārgānugāmanam, which is prescribed by the sādhu, guru, you have to accept that. You cannot manufacture your own way.



Guest (3): The world is so vast, and people who are living in this world and also wishing to attain God or remember God or say about the God... Also the namaskaram is, Gurudeva said, that, mentioned in the *Gītā*, that all these are fruitless, the soul which is remembering God either in the form of Kṛṣṇa, but he has not met a guru. Because to get a real guru is a real occasion. It doesn't happen in the case of everyone. One in million get a chance to get a real spiritual guide. There are so many in the name of spiritual guide. And he will false pray because his inner soul hankers and inner soul thinks that "This is my guru, and somehow I will accept whatever he says." And the ultimate aim and objective is to love God or to recite his name or surrender to Him.



Prabhupāda: This question has been answered by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu while He was teaching Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī.



ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

*guru*-kṛṣṇa-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

[Cc. Madhya 19.151]



*The guru word is there. Guru Kṛṣṇa. If you are actually hankering after Kṛṣṇa-Kṛṣṇa is within yourself*-He will give you a guru. He will give you a guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya. But we must be fortunate to get real guru. If I am unfortunate, I'll not get a guru. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]? Mālī hañā se bīja kariya āropaṇa. In this way you'll find in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He accepted guru, Īśvara Purī. He is Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa Himself. As Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya said that,



*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya śarīra dhārī...

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*He's the puruṣa Purāṇa, Kṛṣṇa, but now He has appeared as Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. So he also accepted guru, what to speak of our... Kṛṣṇa also accepted guru. So how you will get the ultimate goal of life without accepting guru? Why do you manufacture this idea? There is no need of manufacturing this. You have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. If you manufacture, then you'll be cheated. Don't do this. That has become a fashion, that you manufacture your own way of service. That is not possible. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī stresses, ādau*-gurvāśrayam: "The first business is that you must find out a bona fide guru." Then other things.



Guest (4) (Indian man): Gurudeva said the only aim of human being is to surrender to Śrī Kṛṣṇa, to the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest (4): In India especially, there are so many temples and gods and goddesses...



*Prabhupāda: That has been described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are hṛta-jñānāḥ, less intelligent, all these gods and goddess are for them. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. "Those who are after other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ." Hṛta-jñānāḥ means they have got little knowledge*-that is taken away by māyā. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These words are there. So this demigod worship is for the less intelligent class of men, not the actual intellectuals. Actual intellectual is he-bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So he's actual intelligent, when he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. So the demigod worship is recommended for the less intelligent class of men. Otherwise, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa is the highest stage of perfection.



Guest (5) (Indian man): Sir, what is the difference between renunciation and surrender?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Renunciation is the beginning of this material world. You cannot take, you cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa, unless you renounce this ma.... If you have got material necessities... Sarva-dharmān parityajva. Kṛṣṇa says, "Absolute surrender." And if you want material necessities, then you have got so many dharmas*-this dharma, that dharma, social dharma, family dharma, national dharma, community dharma, and so on, so on. But Kṛṣṇa demands, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. So it is not very easy thing. Therefore renunciation and surrender. Surrender means full renunciation, no reservation. And renunciation means you renounce something and keep something. That is difference.



Guest (5): Supposing any person, he renounces everything, his material property, and if he just came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Can he live?



Prabhupāda: We are living. You can see practically. We have got more than one hundred centers, and we are maintaining at least ten thousand men, just like these Europeans. And you have seen our opulence. We are advertised as fabulously rich. You can see here also. We have got at least four cars here. Who has got four cars? Don't you see how we are living?



Guest (5): Sir, what I meant... Supposing...



*Prabhupāda: No. Your question is that... We are living very opulently because we are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. That is point. So if you come to us you will also live very opulently. Surrender. Do that by practical seeing. We have no anxiety. Do you know what is our expenditure? In New York we are spending twelve lakhs of rupees per month. Only in New York. Similarly, in Los Angeles we have got huge expenditure. And our income is also, daily, five lakhs. You can see. Take our account. Audit. People do not touch as soon as one hears, "Oh, it is a religious group." And we are selling religious books, this Bhāgavata and Śrīmad Bhagavad*-gītā, six lakhs of rupees daily. Can you imagine?



Guest (6) (Indian man): Where is this consciousness of surrender come in human life? At what stage it can come?



*Prabhupāda: At any moment. You must be prepared. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you have got intelligence, you can do it immediately. Where is the difficulty? But you'll not do it. They have done it, these young boys. They have no other business. And Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: Don't hesitate. But we are hesitating. So there is no surrender. So all right, you remain under the clutches of māyā and suffer. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā is very strong. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti As soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa immediately you are mukta. Immediately, instantly. It is in your hand. You follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction, do the needful, you are mukta. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)





770126AD.PUR

Evening Address to Paṇḍas and Scholars

-

Jagannātha Purī, January 26, 1977



Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, who has been kind enough to grace this occasion wherein we have assembled this evening to pay our respectful homage to Jagannātha dāsa Gosvāmī, who was a contemporary of Lord Caitanya.



Prabhupāda: (Bengali) I thank you very much...



Hari-śauri: The microphone's not working.



Prabhupāda: ...for kindly receiving me. So in our humble way we are trying to...



Indian man (1): Is the mike on?



*Prabhupāda: ...introduce the Jagannātha Swami's culture. Jagannātha svāmī nayana*-pathagāmī bhavatu me. You'll be very much pleased that in the year 1967 I introduced Ratha-yātrā in San Francisco. And it is going on continually for the last six or seven years, and the government, they have fixed up a holiday for Ratha-yātrā. We have got 25th July as government fixed-up day, holiday, for Ratha-yātrā. And people take part in the Ratha-yātrā, not all my devotees, even outsiders. Ten to twelve thousand people attend, and we distribute prasādam to all of them. They feel very much obliged. And the newspaper writes that "People in general never felt such ecstasy as they are feeling in the Ratha-yātrā festival." And the police said that the crowd... In the Western country, as soon as there is some big crowd, there is some disturbance. So police were surprised that "This crowd is not window-breaking crowd." And next we introduced Ratha-yātrā in London, in the London, Trafalgar Square. That is the most famous square within the city. And there is a big column. It is called Nelson Column. So our ratha was so high that the Guardian paper, they criticized that "This Ratha-yātrā is rival to Nelson Column." Next we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia, and this year we have introduced Ratha-yātrā in New York and...



Hari-śauri: Melbourne.



Prabhupāda: Melbourne, Sydney.



Hari-śauri: Paris.



*Prabhupāda: Paris. So in the Western countries Ratha*-yātrā is being introduced one after another, and Jagannātha Swami is attracting the attention of the Western people. (someone talking in background) What is that? So people will come in your Jagannātha Purī now from all parts of the world. That is beneficial from various point of view. From the point of tourist program, the government will benefit. And when they're attracted to see Jagannātha Purī, Jagannātha Swami... Unfortunately, you do not allow these foreigners to enter the temple. How it can be adjusted? This stumbling block should be dissolved. If you want Jagannātha Swami to pack up within your home, and you do not expand the mercy of Jagannātha... He is Jagannātha. He's not only this Purī-nātha, or Oriya-nātha; *He's Jagannātha. Kṛṣṇa declares in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. That is the definition of Jagannātha, sarva-loka-maheśvaram. So why you should deny the inhabitants of Sarva-loka the darśana of Jagannātha? That is not... Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu never approved such thing. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said,



pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma



*When that thing is being done and when they are eager to come here, why you should restrain? What is the cause? This is not very good. Arcye viṣṇau śilā*-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. It is not good.



*So we are preaching Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam all over the world. We have translated into English Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And they are being received very nicely. In the Christmas period in a week, from 17 December to 24 December, our report is we have sold books, small and big, seventeen lakhs. And our general survey is: we are selling books to the worth of five to six lakhs daily. Daily. And our expenditure is also very heavy. We have started a Bhaktivedanta Book Trust for expanding this movement. We have got about two hundred buses to preach the Jagannātha cult all over the world, village to village, town to town... [break] ...this kṛṣṇa-bhakti cult may be one (?) all over. I do not know what is the cause. Here you are all present, many learned scholars and pandits. So you consider why this restriction should be there. Of course, if you do not allow, there is no, I mean to say, loss on the part of the foreigners, because Jagannātha has already gone there, and they are worshiping. But it is an etiquette that to give samāna to the Vaiṣṇava, Vaiṣṇava aparādha has been very much condemned by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So these Vaiṣṇavas, when they are so much eager to come to Jagannātha Purī and see Jagannātha, you should welcome them. You should receive them well, because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava sevā, nistāra pāyeche kebā. And (in) the śāstra it is said, tadīyānām ārādhanam. Viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param, tasmāt parataraṁ devī tadīyānām ārādhanam.

*So I have specially come to request you to remove this restriction and be friendly to the foreign devotees. And you also come there, see how there are so many Jagannātha temples, Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa temples, how They are being worshiped, how these foreigners, they have become pure Vaiṣṇava. They are strictly observing the four principles of sinful life by negation: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no fish-eating, no egg-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. They are purified. And Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī openly says, tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. So there is authority. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

ye bhaje sei baḍa abhakta hīna chāra

*kṛṣṇa bhajanete nāhi jāti*-kulādi-vicāra



*Kṛṣṇa says personally in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ..., te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim [Bg. 9.32]. So there is ample śāstra-pramāṇa, approved by the ācāryas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu converted many Pathans into Vaiṣṇava, changed their name. So things are going according to śāstra and mahājana. Why you should not receive them as Vaiṣṇava and give them proper reception? That is my request. I hope... There are many learned scholars and devotees present here. They should endeavor to remove this, I mean to say, restriction or short-sightedness, and let us combinedly work for Jagannātha to preach the bhakti cult for the benefit of the whole world. Janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. This Bhārata bhūmi is for para-upakāra, because this knowledge, the Vedic knowledge, is here in the Śrīmad Bhāratavarṣa. So we should assimilate the bhakti cult to the right direction, and making our life successful, we should distribute this knowledge, this cult, all over the world. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Janma sārthaka kari para-upakāra. The modern civilization is very vicious civilization. Because in the human form of life there is the opportunity, athāto brahma jijñāsā*-to inquire about the Supreme Truth-so if they are denied... The knowledge is there in India. If it is denied, that is not very good human society. So I shall request you all, learned scholars, paṇḍita present here, to cooperate with this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and let us conjoinedly work for Jagannātha cult.



Thank you very much.

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda? There's a question. You want to answer?



Prabhupāda: What is that?



*Indian man (2): ...don't put question. Bhagavat-ṣaṭ*-sandarbha of Jagannātha.



*Prabhupāda: So what shall I do? So? Of course, I do not know the Oriya language, but it is said that it is Bhagavat-ṣaṭ*-sandarbha of Jagannātha. So it is inaugurated today. (applause) (Purī temple brāhmaṇas chant prayers to Lord Jagannātha) So these European and American Vaiṣṇavas, they're hankering after jagannātha svāmī nayana pathagāmī bhavatu me. Now it is through your intervention they may be able to see Jagannātha Swami. (chuckles) They are hankering like that, jagannātha svāmī nayana pathagāmī bhavatu me.



Indian man: (Bengali)



Prabhupāda: Have some prasāda. (end)





770129LE.BHU

Lecture

-

Bhuvaneśvara, January 29, 1977,

(with Oriyan translator)



Prabhupāda:



*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayam samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavān, personally speaking how you understand Him perfectly. [break] ... previous chapter... [break] ...already said that,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



It is not so easy to understand what is Kṛṣṇa or what is Godhead. Therefore He is personally speaking about Himself. There are many persons within this world, they are trying to understand what is God. (aside:) What is...? [break] When you want to study me by speculation, it is not perfect. But if I speak myself about my career, my position, they you can understand very easily. So the speculators, they are thinking that "God has no form. You can imagine any form of the Lord and try to worship Him." That is speculator. [break] ... Another type of atheism. The atheists, they say, Śūnyavādī, "There is no God." But these Māyāvādī, they say, "Yes there is God, but He has no head, no leg, no mouth, nothing." Means, indirectly, they are saying there is not God.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore clearly said that this Māyāvādī, nirākāravādī, is more dangerous than the Śūnyavādī. Śūnyavādī, they publicly declare, "There is no God," just like modern population, that "There is no need of God." Asatyam aprathiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8]. That is also described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. The atheist class, they say that "This world is asatya. There is no meaning." Asatyam jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8]. "And there is no God." We can understand that they are atheist. [break]... Māyāvādī philosopher, they take the shelter of Vedic literature and indirectly, directly, they try to wipe out the existence of God. [break] The Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore has said, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] "If you hear from a Māyāvādī, nirākāravādī, then you are doomed." You cannot understand about God at any time. [break] So our request is that if you at all want to understand what is God, don't go to the Māyāvādī or Śūnyavādi, but try to understand about God from God Himself. Sometimes they may say that "What is the use of understanding God? What is the necessity of understanding God?" No. That is not the right conclusion. Human life is meant for understanding God. [break]...God, you may say there is no God, but there is God. There is no doubt about it.

*So we must know what is God, what is our relationship with Him and how we shall act in that relationship. You cannot say, "There is no God," from logic also. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja*-pradaḥ pitā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the bīja-pradaḥ pitā, the seed-giving father." He says that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ. There are different types of body, and we can see that all types of living entities, they are coming from the earth. So everything is coming out of the earth, beginning from the grass to the big, big animals or other thing. Therefore this pṛthivī, or the earth, is our mother. Everything is coming from the earth. So mātā is there, mother is there, and the offsprings or children are there-there must be father. Without father, mother cannot beget any children. So when you see so many varieties of life, the mother is the... We say dhātrī-mātā. We have got seven mothers. One of them is the earth.

*ādau*-mātā guroḥ patnī

*brāhmaṇī rāja*-patnikā

dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī

saptaitā mātaraḥ smṛtāḥ



*According to our śāstra, there are seven mothers: my original mother, ādau*-mātā... Guroḥ patnī is my mother. Dhenu, cow, is my mother. Dhātrī, the nurse, is my mother. Tathā pṛthvī. Also earth is also my mother. So mātā is there, and the sons are there. How you can deny, that "There is no father"? I may not see my father, but there is father; *there is no doubt of it. That pitā is personally presenting Himself*-ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father."



*So therefore... So God is there, and there is no doubt of it, but because, due to our foolishness, we think there is no God, there is no father, that is our foolishness. But what is that God, how He is, what is His business, how He is formed*-all these things we want to learn, and human life is meant for that purpose. In the life of cats and dogs we cannot understand God, but in the human life we can understand. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra the first aphorism is that athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life, in the human form of life... Because we get this human form of life after many, many evolutionary... [break] So this is a chance to understand what is God and what is our relationship with Him. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung,

hari hari bifale, janama goṅāinu,

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,

jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu



*So it is our duty to understand, and some of them are trying to understand what is God. Now, here Kṛṣṇa, bhagavān uvāca, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, said that "You can understand Me perfectly." Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1]. Bhagavān is the last word of the Absolute Truth. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva*-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. So to understand Bhagavān is the last word, vedānta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means the last word. Everything has some end. So you can have so many knowledges, but unless you understand what is Bhagavān, your knowledge is imperfect. Therefore you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā,



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vasudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*So the conclusion is that we may be very learned scholar or scientist or philosopher, that we may be or very good worker, very good politician, but if we do not understand what is God, then we are in the categories of mūḍha, narādhama, duṣkṛtina. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā,



na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

*māyayāpahṛta*-jñānā

*āsuri*-bhāvam āśritāḥ

[Bg. 7.15]



Duṣkṛtina means one who has got brain, but the brain is utilized for mischievous activities. And one becomes sinful, mischievous, on account of his foolishness. He does not know by mischievous activities he would be punished. This is going on by the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā is very strong. For all our mischievous activities we are being punished. Māyā is punishing us by giving different forms of body.



*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*Īśvara, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Paramātmā, is sitting in everyone's core of the heart, and He is witness, witnessing everything. So according to our karma, we are getting a body or a machine for movement given by māyā. So therefore we are getting different types of body. The reason is kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. The different types of body we are getting on account of association with the material qualities. So if we want to stop this business of repetition of birth and death in this cycle, we must understand. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. We must understand. It is compulsory. We must understand "What is God, what is my relations with Him." Then we can get release from this repetition of birth and death. That process is being described by Bhagavān Himself, that mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha. You have to increase your attachment for Bhagavān. Āsakta. Āsakta means attachment. You have to increase your attachment for Bhagavān. [break] ...recommended process, you can understand Bhagavān. This process of increasing our attachment about God, or Kṛṣṇa, is called bhakti-yoga. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ: "taking shelter of Me or taking shelter of My devotee." Mad-āśrayaḥ. That yoga is called bhakti-yoga. Mad-āśrayaḥ means "taking shelter of Me" or "taking shelter of the person who has taken shelter of Me."



*So in this way if we execute bhakti*-yoga, then asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi: [Bg. 7.1] you'll be able to understand God as He is without any doubt and in fullness. To understand Bhagavān fully means not only understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead but also understand what is Brahman, what is Paramātmā. In other words, if you understand Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, then you automatically understand what is Brahman, what is Paramātmā. [break] ...the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

*vadanti tat tattva*-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]



*So tattva*-vastu, Absolute Truth, is observed from three angle of vision-Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān-but all of them are the same and one object. So simply by realization of Brahman, impersonal Brahman, is not perfect knowledge of the Absolute Truth. Similarly, Paramātmā-jñāna is also not perfect knowledge of the Absolute Truth. When you understand fully the Personality of Godhead, then the knowledge is perfect. There will be no more doubt. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1].



*So let us take this opportunity of the statement by Kṛṣṇa how to understand God, and we may make our life perfect in that way. Because life's mission is to understand God. [break] ...that the process is bhakti*-yogam. Bhagavān also says in another place distinctly, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti... [Bg. 18.55]. (end)



770326LE.BOM

Lecture

-

Bombay, March 26, 1977



*Prabhupāda: Ladies and Gentlemen, the very learned erudite scholarly speaking by our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara Singh must have created some impression in your mind, I am sure. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is full of scientific knowledge. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa*-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmy anasuyave [Bg. 7.2]. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am speaking to you knowledge, jñānam, sa-vijñānam, with scientific understanding." So "Why you are speaking to Me?" Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyamy anasuyave: "Because you are not envious. That is your qualification. You are very submissive student. Therefore I'll give you." So the dictation is coming from Kṛṣṇa, as Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara says. That's a fact. Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: [Bg. 15.15] "I am situated in everyone's heart."



*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



*So we are creating our different position. Kṛṣṇa is situated within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe [Bg. 18.61]. He is pointing out, "Find out, hṛd-deśe, within the heart." Therefore the yogis, they try to find out Paramātmā. Dhyānāvasthita tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. The yogis' business is to find out Kṛṣṇa within the core of the heart. He is there. There are many places, explained.



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

[Bg. 10.10]



*So He is always prepared. Kṛṣṇa comes for this purpose, to give us the real knowledge. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. Why don't you take this opportunity? That is our lamentation. Especially in India, where Kṛṣṇa personally came, where He gave..., left behind Him so valuable instruction, Bhagavad*-gītā, why you are refusing? Why you are misinterpreting and spoiling your life and spoiling others'? Don't do it. Take it very seriously. And as soon as we are engaged-teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]-as soon as we submit to Kṛṣṇa and serve Him, prīti-pūrvakam, with love and affection... Not officially. Kṛṣṇa understands everything, that who is worshiping Him with love and affection and who is worshiping Him for some material gain. Kṛṣṇa is nobody's servant. He cannot be order-supplier. You must be prepared to supply His order or to obey His order. Then prīti-pūrvakam: then He will give you instruction. What instruction? Yena mām upayānti: "Again come back home."



So last night we were speaking of the Bhāgavata śloka, that this life should not be spoiled like hogs and dogs. We must learn how to love Kṛṣṇa with love and affection and take instruction from Him to make our life successful.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some questions now, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) [break] (end)





770401LE.BOM

Lecture

-

Bombay, April 1, 1977



Prabhupāda: ...and shall remain up to eight. So our darśana and talks, if there is any, generally, every day it will be done. And on Sunday you can fix up some time. I will speak in the evening. And then Kṛṣṇa's desire, as He likes. For the time being, this arrangement.



*So what is that verse? Divya*-jñāna hṛde prakāśito. Just recite that. (Indians repeat) Before that. (prema-bhakti yāhā hoite, avidyā vināśa yāte) So the necessity is prema-bhakti. Prema-bhakti yāhā hoite, avidyā vināśa yāte, divya-jñāna. So what is that divya-jñāna? Divya means transcendental, not material. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Divyam means we are combination of matter and spirit. That spirit is divya, transcendental. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā [Bg. 7.5]. That is parā prakṛti, superior. If there is the superior identity... And for understanding that superior identity we require superior knowledge, not ordinary knowledge. Divya-jñāna hṛde prakāśito. So this is the duty of the guru, to awaken that divya-jñāna. Divya-jñāna. And because guru enlightens that divya-jñāna, he is worshiped. That is required. The modern... Modern or always; *this is māyā. That divya*-jñāna is never, I mean to say, manifested. They are kept in the darkness of adivya-jñāna. Adivya-jñāna means "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," this is adivya-jñāna. Dehātma-buddhiḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri. I am not this body.

*So the beginning of divya*-jñāna is there when we try to understand that "I am not this body. I am superior element, I am spirit soul. This is inferior. So why should I remain in this inferior knowledge?" We should not remain in the inferior... Inferior knowledge means darkness. Tamasi mā. The Vedic injunction is, "Don't remain in the inferior knowledge." Jyotir gamaḥ. "Come to the superior knowledge." So to worship guru means because he gives us superior knowledge. Not this knowledge-how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life and defend. Generally, the political leaders, social leaders, they give this knowledge-how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex, how to defend. A guru has no business with these things. He is divya-jñāna, superior knowledge. That is required. This human form of life is an opportunity to awaken that divya-jñāna hṛde prakāśito. And if he's kept in darkness about that divya-jñāna, simply if he is trained up how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and to defend, then life will be lost. That is a great loss. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Very risky life if we do not awaken our divya-jñāna. We should always remember this. Very risky life-once again thrown into the waves of birth and death, we do not know where I am going. Very serious. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is divya-jñāna. It is not ordinary knowledge. Everyone should try to understand this divya-jñāna. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritam. Therefore one who is interested in this divya-jñāna, he is called daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritam. From daivī, divya comes, the Sanskrit word. Sanskrit word, from daivī, divya, adjective.

*So mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. One who has taken to this divya*-jñāna process, he is mahātmā. Mahātmā is not made by stamping for receiving knowledge how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. That is not the definition in the śāstras. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyante

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā...

[Bg. 7.19]



*One who has got this divya*-jñāna, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā, that is mahātmā. But that is very, very rare. Otherwise, mahātmā like me, they are loitering in the street. That is. So you should always remember this word, divya-jñāna hṛde prakāśito. And because the spiritual master enlightens the divya-jñāna, one feels obliged to him. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya prasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. So this guru-pūjā essential. As the Deity worship essential... It is not cheap adoration. It is the process of enlightening the divya-jñāna.



Thank you very much. (end)



000000LE.UN

General Lecture

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(location & date unknown)



*Prabhupāda: There also it is stated, what is the meaning of religion. First of all, in the Fourth Chapter the Lord says that dharma*-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8], dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg. 4.7]. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Whenever there is discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principles, then I descend or incarnate; *I come." Yuge yuge sambhavāmi, ātma*-māyayā. Ātma-māyayā. He is not forced to come here. This very word is used, ātma-māyayā. As we are forced to come here by our destiny, karma, adṛṣṭa, which we cannot see We have got different bodies in this assembly-men, women, different features, different mentality. Why? According to different karma in the past.



*So karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. We act, and the result of the action is just by the superior authority, daiva-netreṇa. And then, according to that result, we accept a certain type of body. So there are many discussions about this karmavāda. But these are Vedic conclusions, according to karma. So this human form of life... I was speaking of the dharma. The dharma... Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, says that "I come down, I descend, I appear, for the reason to establish, reestablish"*-not establish, reestablish-"to reestablish the principle of religion," yadā yadā hi, "whenever there is discrepancies."

Just like whenever there is misgovernment in the political world, there is some revolution; *there is some change. People revolt against the administration that "We don't want this sort of government." As this is natural, similarly, whenever there is discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principle*-means the order, or the laws given by God-at that time God Himself comes or His representative comes to reestablish the religious principles according to the climate, country, people. That is going on, not only in the human society, but also in the animal society, bird society. That we understand from the Vedas.

*So then what is religion? The religion is, as I have told you that dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19], the order of the Lord, God. And what is that order? This is plainly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Simply be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava. Mana means consciousness. So "You be always Kṛṣṇa conscious." Bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Become My devotee." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "And worship Me." Māṁ namaskuru: "You namaskuru." You have to submit yourself somewhere. That is our nature. Nobody can say, "No. I don't submit to anyone." That is not possible. You have to submit. That is your position. Whatever you may be, you have to submit. So Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ namaskuru: "Submit unto Me." Then what is the result? Mām evaiṣyasi: "Then you come back to Me," asaṁśayaḥ, "without any doubt." And in the last verse also, Kṛṣṇa concludes Bhagavad-gītā that "My dear Arjuna, I have spoken to you so many things-karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, bhakti-yoga-but you are My very dear friend, so I will give you the secret of success," sarva-guhyatamam, "most confidential part of My instruction." What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up everything. You simply surrender unto Me. That's all." Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [Bg. 18.66] "Dharma means the laws given by God." Now, what is this law? He says that "Don't manufacture religion. Even if you have manufactured, give it up." Sarva-dharmān parityajya. This sarva-dharmān includes all religious principles.

*The human society has manufactured in Hindu society, Muslim society or Christian society, and there are so many... Buddha society... So, but Bhagavad*-gītā says that "You can give up sarva-dharmān, all sorts of religious principles. You simply surrender unto Me." This is the position. Kṛṣṇa said in the beginning that "I come here to reestablish the religious principle." And what is that religious principle? To surrender unto Him. To surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. This is real religious principle. And in the Naimiṣāraṇya, when this Sūta Gosvāmī was asked what is the best religious principle, so, he replied, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: [SB 1.2.6] "It doesn't matter what is that religion. Any religion is first-class religion provided it gives you opportunity to develop your dormant love of God. That's all." You follow any religion; it doesn't matter. Either you become a Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or so many other religions there are, but the test is that whether your religious principle is first class or third class or second class, the test will be whether you have developed your dormant love of God. That's all. If you are lacking in that, that you have not..., instead of developing your dormant love of God, you are developing your love for so many other things...

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu has instructed in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta that just like when you seed some plants, there are..., some other plants also grow. So the gardener takes out the unnecessary plants in order to give impetus to the real plant to grow. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā, following the principle that dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19], that dharma means, religion means, the law enacted by the Lord... This is the law, that "You surrender unto Me." Kṛṣṇa says. Now, if you say that Kṛṣṇa is Indian God or Hindu God, oh, Kṛṣṇa, of course, does not say like that. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ: [Bg. 14.4] "In any form of life, all the living entities..." It doesn't matter, even a human being or in the animal kingdom or lower than human beings, lower than animals, birds, beast, reptiles, aquatics. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Kṛṣṇa claims, sarva-yonisu: "All species of life, they are My sons." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "I am their father, supreme father."

*So do not misunderstand that Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God or Indian. You just try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, this word, suggests... Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. So when Kṛṣṇa was personally present on this planet... You know. Those who have read Kṛṣṇa literature, I think most of you know Bhagavad-gītā, such a nice philosophical presentation. Oh, there is no comparison in the world. That's a fact. Everyone-it doesn't matter if he is a scholar or if he is a serious student of religious principle or philosophy*-he studies Bhagavad-gītā very seriously, in all countries. There are many varied editions of Bhagavad-gītā, and actually, the instruction is so high that it cannot be instructed by anyone else except the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*Besides that, Kṛṣṇa proved Himself from His very childhood. When He was a small child on the lap of His mother, beginning from that, up to the time of His disappearance from this world, oh, He played everything just like God. There is no comparison. He... Those who have read Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, they are acquainted with the activities of Kṛṣṇa. I am speaking this for people who are outside the scope of Vedic religion. Those who are in the Vedic religion, all of them, they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt about it. So far our Vedic religion is concerned, the propounder of the Vedic religions in India still existing, still continuing, the ācāryas, just like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, these ācāryas... The followers, the whole Hindu community or the whole Indian nation, they are followers of these ācāryas. Jarāsandha: "One must worship the principle of ācārya." Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who has accepted ācārya, he knows what is knowledge." Ācāryavan puruso veda. In this way all the ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So far the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas are concerned, namely, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, they would naturally, because they are Vaiṣṇavas...

*Just like we. We belong to Madhvācārya. Our Gauḍīya*-sampradāya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya, they belong to the Madhvācārya disciplic succession. Lord Caitanya's spiritual master was Īśvara Purī, and he was disciple of Mādhavendra Purī, and this Mādhavendra Purī was in the disciplic succession of Madhvācārya. Therefore we are in the disciplic succession of Madhvācārya. And this Madhvācārya-sampradāya is coming from Brahma. Therefore this sampradāya, disciplic succession, is known as Brahma-Madhva-Gauḍīya-sampradāya.

*So naturally we accept Kṛṣṇa on the basis of Bhagavad*-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is natural. But, everyone, of course, has to accept Bhagavad-gītā and Vedānta-sūtra if he, I mean to say, presents himself as Vedic or Hindu. Hindu is the name, the modern name. Actually the Vedic name is the original name, or varṇāśrama-dharma. That is the original name. So, apart from Vaiṣṇavas, even Śaṅkarācārya, who is impersonalist, who is Brahmavadi, he also accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Those who have read Śaṅkarācārya's commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā, they must have seen it in the very beginning: sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. He begins his commentary, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktat: "Nārāyaṇa is beyond this material creation." And then he says, "That Nārāyaṇa is svayaṁ bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. And he has specifically mentioned that "He has appeared as the son of Devaki and Vasudeva." Beside that, he has written many songs and prayers about Kṛṣṇa. And at the last stage of his life he has written a very nice poem,

bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mūḍha mate

*prāpte sannihite khalu marane na hi na hi rakṣati dukṛn*-karaṇe



*Because the Māyāvādī philosophers, they interpret Vedic mantras by grammatical jugglery, therefore Śaṅkarācārya has warned that "Your grammatical jugglery, this dukṛn*-pratyaya, karaṇe, will not save you." Mūḍha-mate: "You foolish person, you kindly take shelter of Govinda." Bhaja govinda. So this is the verdict of all ācāryas. So our point is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing like manufactured religious principle. No. It is authorized. There is great background, all these, supported by all the ācāryas and summarized by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And we have got immense literature to support this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But anyone who is reasonable, they will accept this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness as very simple. And it is actually very simple, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. And if you cannot surrender immediately, then... These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given you the easiest process, that you simply chant Kṛṣṇa's name, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. Then everything automatically will develop.



*How it will develop, that we began explaining yesterday, this Sūta Gosvāmī's instruction. He says, śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you simply hear about Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa You can hear about Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. Kṛṣṇa has got so many activities. The whole Mahābhārata, the whole Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, all the Purāṇas, and especially Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. So it is very relishing also. Just like we try to read stories and fiction ordinarily-people take pleasure in it-similarly, if you simply read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you will relish that fiction reading; *at the same time, you will be transcendentally realized. The Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was hearing Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, he said that nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt [SB 10.1.4]. He admitted that "This kṛṣṇa-katha, narrations about Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa's activities, it is relished, it is discussed, by nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ means liberated person. Nivṛtti means finished, and tṛṣṇa, tṛṣṇa, hankering.

*So long you are in the material existence of life, there is hankering and lamenting because this world is being conducted by the two energies... Now, one energy, material energy, threefold qualities, sattva*-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa... Generally it is being conducted by the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Rajas-tamo-bhava. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says, this Sūta Gosvāmī, that srnvatam sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If you simply hear the activities of Kṛṣṇa, which is confirmed by Parīkṣit Mahārāja, that kṛṣṇa-kathā is relished by persons, nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ, who has transcended the three qualitative action and reaction of this material nature... Tṛṣṇa. Everyone who are materially situated, he has got hankering: "I shall become this great man," "I shall become this big businessman," "I shall become such politician," "I shall become such and such." Always, everyone is struggling. But this kṛṣṇa-kathā is relished by them who are above this hankering. And that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na socati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. This kāṅkṣa, this tṛṣṇa, the same thing... Kāṅkṣa means hankering. In the ordinary position we are hankering and lamenting, hankering to possess something, and if, somehow or other, that possession is lost, then you are lamenting, again hankering. These two features of the material life. So brahma-bhūtaḥ... Brahma-bhūtaḥ means one who is above these two principles, hankering and lamenting. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na socati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. If you become above these 8 qualities, material qualities, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman."

*This is self-realization. So nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ means one who has realized his self. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, also confirming that "This kṛṣṇa-kathā, these activities of Kṛṣṇa can be relished by persons who have are transcended this position of hankering and lamenting..." Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. They can actually understand. But what about the common man? The common man, he has also said, bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. If common men simply hear, then it will be very pleasing to their ears and to their heart. Chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. They'll be pleased simply by hearing. Generally, people therefore take to Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. But one should not go so swiftly to the rasa-līlā because they will misunderstand. But there are so many other līlās of Kṛṣṇa. So you hear them. That is our program. We are giving chance to the people in general to hear about Kṛṣṇa. And this is our mission. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is this, that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra sarva deśa: "You just become spiritual master under My order." What is that order? That also He says, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128].' That's all. "You simply try to explain the kṛṣṇa-kathā." Kṛṣṇa-kathā means kathā, the words, given by Kṛṣṇa-that is Bhagavad-gītā, kathā*-or kathā about Kṛṣṇa. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So these two messages you distribute to the whole world. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order.

*So you may question, "What you are? What is your position?" Our... My position is that, that under the supreme order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in disciplic succession, I am just trying to preach this kṛṣṇa*-kathā. That's all. I am not manufacturing anything. Don't think that I have manufactured something new, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No. That is not my business. My business is just like the peon. The orderly. The message from Caitanya Mahāprabhu as it is, I am delivering. That's all. And it is being effected because I am not adulterating in the kṛṣṇa-kathā. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja; [Bg. 18.66] I also say the same thing, that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." So there is no doubt that I am really representing the interests of Kṛṣṇa because I am not adulterating. I am not misinterpreting the words of Kṛṣṇa. And it is being effective.

*You can see that before me many Indians came in this Western world. They also preached about this Kṛṣṇa message or Bhagavad*-gītā. Great scholars came. But you have to admit that before this, the Westerners never accepted this principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they could not deliver as it is. Now they are accepting. And there is immense potency. I have studied. There is immense potency of accepting. They are actually looking after this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the Western people. The other day I was talking with our Indian high commissioner. He also happens to be very nice, learned man. He said that "Swamiji, yes, they are looking after, like this." So, so far material advancement is concerned, they have seen enough of it. Therefore, these youngsters, they are no more interested in the material advancement. They have tasted it.

*The next stage is, as it is explained in the Vedānta*-sūtra, atha ataḥ brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the stage of their inquiry about Brahman. And that Brahman, Parabrahman, as it is confirmed by Arjuna when he understood Kṛṣṇa... First of all he took Him as his friend, but after explanation of Bhagavad-gītā, in the Tenth Chapter you will see, he is accepting, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So this brahma-jijñāsa, inquiry, is there. And kṛṣṇa-kathā is here. So everyone should join this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Simply he has to distribute this knowledge of kṛṣṇa-kathā as ordered by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then the result will be that, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, spoken by Sūta Gosvāmī, that śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Kṛṣṇa-kathā is so nice that even one does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, simply if he hears the vibration of this holy chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, he will be pious man. He will be pious man-simply by hearing. It has got It is so effective. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Practically you are seeing. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam this is also confirmed, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is within you also, Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So He is within you. As soon as He understands that you are very serious about Him, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, then He will help you. And śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi.

*Now, this abhadrāṇi, abhadra, the exact translation is "misbehavior," abhadra, "ungentlemanliness." Is that exact translation? If it is not, you can correct me. Abhadra, the Sanskrit word... Those who are Indians, they know this word, bhadra and abhadra. Bhadra, means noble and abhadra means ignoble. So hṛdy antaḥ*-stho hy abhadrāṇi. These words of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, each word is so valuable that if you scrutinizingly abhadrāṇi, ignoble. What is that ignoble within our heart? That ignoble thing is claiming proprietorship on the property of God. That is the instruction in the Īśopaniṣad. Every one of us claiming, unceremoniously, proprietorship on other's property This is the business of the whole material world.

*This nationality which is claimed so much valuable in the modern age, difference based on nationality, to test on this point, abhadrāṇi, this is most ignoble. We are eulogizing nationality so much, but actually, if you study these principles of nationality, it is most ignoble. Why? Because Īśopaniṣad says, Veda, that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: [Īśo mantra 1] "Everything belongs to God." How you are claiming that "It is our" or "It is mine"? Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is illusion. What is not yours, you are claiming, "It is mine." Just like this body. This is also not mine. The nature has given me this body according to my karma. Just like the landlord has given me this house to live, but it is not my house. This is a fact. So if I live in this house and later on claim, "Oh, this is my house," the whole trouble begins. Similarly, everything which we are utilizing for our comforts, for our livelihood, everything is given by God. This body is given by God, the maintenance also given by God. You are maintaining this body by eating fruits, flowers, grains, or even meat. But who is supplying? You cannot create all these things in your machine*-made factories. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is supplying. This is God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So because we are in different consciousness, therefore everything is ignoble in our heart. So śṛṇvatāṁ sva*-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi [SB 1.2.17]. These abhadra, these ignoble thoughts, claiming something which does not belong to me, is the most ignoble. But if you gradually give your attention in the matter of hearing kṛṣṇa-kathā, then Kṛṣṇa will help you how to wash off these ignoble things within your heart. Hṛdy antaḥ-sthaḥ. He is within your heart. When you are serious, then He will wash off all these ignoble things from your heart. Hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi. In this way, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can help the human society in all respect to become purified and thus live in peace and prosperity, we can have all this information from this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. And we shall request you that you come and join with us and discuss with us. If there is any doubt, just clear it up and take up this movement seriously to make the human society happy and prosperous. Thank you very much.

*Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (offer obeisances*-break)



Guest (Indian man): If I am not mistaken, I think I heard that Kṛṣṇa reestablished religion, reestablished. Now who established before Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.



Guest: When Kṛṣṇa was born, who was born before Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never born.



Guest: Kṛṣṇa was not born?



Prabhupāda: No.



Guest: Oh, that satisfies me very much. I was taught that...(indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ajo 'pi. Ajo 'pi: "I am never..." You are also not born, every one of us. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, spirit soul, so nobody is born. Na jāyate na mriyate vā: "Nobody takes birth; nobody dies." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "At any time." These things are there. And Kṛṣṇa, about Himself, He says, ajo 'pi: "Although I am unborn." Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san: "Although I am unborn." So Kṛṣṇa is never born. Just like in the morning there is sunrise. If you say the sun is born, that is mistake. Sun is seen. He is not born.



Guest: Yes, I understand. This Caitanya was incarnation of Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: Before Caitanya was who, Kṛṣṇa or anyone in between?



*Prabhupāda: Before Caitanya? In the Kali*-yuga... Kṛṣṇa was in the Dvāpara-yuga, and Caitanya was in the Kali-yuga.



Guest: So between Caitanya and Kṛṣṇa there was not anybody. And before Kṛṣṇa there was no one.



Prabhupāda: No, there were others also, before Kṛṣṇa.



Guest: Before Kṛṣṇa, who was?



Prabhupāda: Before Kṛṣṇa there was Lord Rāmacandra. Yes.



Guest: So Kṛṣṇa took the incarnation of Lord Rāmacandra.



Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He appears sometimes as Lord Rāmacandra, or as Lord Caitanya, or sometimes others, like that.



Guest: But with the name of Kṛṣṇa, He appeared after Rāmacandra.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.



*Guest: And I heard you also saying that Caitanya was disciple of Madhvan*-dāsa-pura.(?)



Prabhupāda: Yes, Madhva. Madhvācārya sampradāya, yes.



Guest: He was disciple of. Now, was he born after Kṛṣṇa or...



Prabhupāda: No, he was born before... Who? Madhvācārya, you mean to say? He was born long, long before Lord Caitanya, after Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa appeared on this planet five thousand years ago. Madhvācārya appeared about one thousand years.



Guest: One thousand years before. That means he appeared after Vyāsa, Śrī Vyāsa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Vyāsa was contemporary to Kṛṣṇa. Vyāsa.



*Guest: And Caitanya was disciple of Madhvan*-dāsa-pura.



Prabhupāda: Madhva... Not Madhvācārya directly. By his disciplic succession.



Guest: Yes. But Madhva was not a incarnation of Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. A ācārya does not require to become incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Not always all the ācāryas are incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. No. They are devotees. They are devotees.



Guest: Yes. That means Caitanya was incarnation of Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: But was a disciple of someone who was not incarnation.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: Thank you.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is possible. (Hindi) You were inquiring about Īśvara Purī, who was direct spiritual master of Lord Caitanya?



Guest: No. I thought because Lord Caitanya was incarnation of Kṛṣṇa... [break]



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: So he would not have a guru or...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes, yes. There is no difference between devotee and God. You see? Sometimes a devotee is given a greater place than God Himself. Mad*-bhaktaḥ pūjābhyādhikaḥ. Just like Kṛṣṇa is God or Arjuna is devotee. So Arjuna is given superior place, to sit on the chariot, and Kṛṣṇa is driver of the chariot. That does not mean Kṛṣṇa has degraded from His position. Kṛṣṇa, or God, in any position, He is God.



Guest: But Kṛṣṇa was not disciple of anyone.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Guest: Whose disciple was Kṛṣṇa?



*Prabhupāda: He was also disciple of Sandipani Muni. Everyone has to become disciple. That is the Vedic system. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ gurum evābhigacchet. Without becoming disciple, nobody can understand.



Guest: No, but Kṛṣṇa was Supreme God.



*Prabhupāda: That not... Supreme God... But He was playing just like human being. Supreme God we know by His activities. But He played the part of human being. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Because I am playing just like ordinary human being, those who are foolish persons, mūḍha, less intelligent, they accept Me as ordinary man." Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ: "They do not know the greatness behind Me. They do not know." Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Mama bhūta-maheśvaram: "That I am the Supreme Lord." Because they do not know, therefore, simply by superficial observation, that "He is playing just like ordinary man," that "He is the chariot driver of Arjuna..." Now, somebody may say, "How Kṛṣṇa can be the Supreme Personality of Godhead? He was ordinary chariot driver of Arjuna. He was ordinary cowherds boy." Muhyanti yat sūrayayaḥ. Very great sages, great saintly persons, also sometimes become bewildered. But to understand Kṛṣṇa, that is explained also in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Not by learning, not by education, not by scholarship. Bhaktyā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: "In reality what I am, that can be understood by the devotees, not by others." And in the beginning also, of the Bhagavad-gītā teaching, He said Arjuna that "I am teaching Bhagavad-gītā to you because you are devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si: [Bg. 4.3] "You are My very dear friend and devotee. Therefore," rahasyam hy etad uttamam, "I am delivering this mystery of Bhagavad-gītā-yoga to you." So to understand Bhagavad-gītā requires that qualification: bhakto 'si. And similarly, on the Eighteenth Chapter, the Kṛṣṇa directly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. The brahma-bhūtaḥ stage is liberated stage from material contamination. But you have to develop further. In the liberated stage, if you shall be satisfied simply being brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realized, understanding yourself as Brahman, that is not sufficient. You have to make further progress. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. When one has acquired these qualities, that he is no more, I mean to say, faltering in the matter of hankering and lamentation, and he is now on the transcendental stage of seeing every living entity on the equal level-samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu-at that stage one can enter into the devotional service. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. So bhakti is above the liberated stage of life. And bhakti, when, if one is fortunate enough to come to that stage, above the liberated stage, then bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55], then through that para bhakti, pure devotional service, one can understand Kṛṣṇa in reality, tattvataḥ. And in another place He said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of persons, somebody is interested for self-realization." Kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhi. Siddhi. Siddhi-labha means perfection of human form of life. So nobody is interested. But there are some who are interested how to make this human form of life perfect. So, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhāṇām: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many persons who are actually engaged in the matter of that perfection of life," kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, "somebody may know in reality what I am," because that reality can be understood by the devotee. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. He has not mentioned anything like jñānī or yogi or karmī. No. He has simply mentioned one thing, bhaktyā. And that is the process. (aside:) He is going. Give him prasāda. (Hindi) Give him prasāda, distribute. Yes.



Devotee: Distribute it now, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.



*Guest (2) (Indian man): If Kṛṣṇa was not born, then what is the significance of that word, that sambhavāmi, dharma*-samstha...



Prabhupāda: Sambhavāmi. That is not birth. Sambhavāmi means appearance. Appearance. Appearance.



Guest (2): But is it like sunrise?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Gone outward... Just like when He appears you can see Him.



Guest (2): What about that Janmāṣṭamī? We observe all those things. What is the significance?



Prabhupāda: That sambhavāmi is taken as janma, just like when the sun appears we take it as the sunrise and we perform so many things, similarly. You please take some prasādam. Yes. Sit down. Please sit down. Take some prasādam. Here is... Sit down.



Guest (2): But the thing is Kṛṣṇa never came here with the...



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa appeared when... That Janmāṣṭamī, what you say... That you have to hear, about the Janmāṣṭamī, from Bhāgavatam. When Devakī was to give delivery of the child, at that time Kṛṣṇa appeared in Nārāyaṇa*-mūrti before her. He never...



*Guest (2): What about Gopāla*-mūrti?



*Prabhupāda: No. In Nārāyaṇa*-mūrti. Nārāyaṇa-mūrti appeared, and then the Vasudeva and Devakī prayed for... Then they prayed for, that "My Lord, You have appeared. I can understand. Now, if You remain in this Nārāyaṇa-mūrti, then immediately Kamsa will come. Please take the form of an ordinary child." So He transformed into ordinary child and was lying down. So He appeared. Sambhavāmi. Sambhavāmi means appearance. And besides that, even He appears just like ordinary child, so that is also no birth. That does not mean Kṛṣṇa is nonimportant. He can appear in any way.



Guest: (Hindi)



*Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Nāhaṁ sarvasya prakāśaḥ yogamāyā*-samāvṛtaḥ: "I am not visible to everyone. I am covered by the yogamāyā." (Hindi) Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. That quality is bhakti. If you become bhakta, then you can understand bhagavat... (Hindi) Otherwise, it is not possible. (Hindi) (end)



Departure Talks





721005DP.LA

Departure

-

Los Angeles, October 5, 1972



*Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So we are worshiping the original person, Govinda. People are embarrassed to find out the cause of all causes. The scientists, the philosophers, they are embarrassed, the religionists. But we have got information of the original cause.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*There must be some cause. We do not accept anything as chance. No. There is no chance. There is cause. Everything has got cause. So the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. So our knowledge is perfect therefore. We know the cause. So you chant this mantra, govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **, and you will be in full knowledge. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. In the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedic language, it is said, "If you know simply Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you know everything. All knowledge is perfect." So try to understand Kṛṣṇa; then all other categorical knowledge will be revealed. Spiritually, knowledge is revealed. By material senses we try to acquire knowledge, but that is always, remains imperfect. And if you receive knowledge from the original person, then your knowledge is perfect.



*So we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to educate people in perfect knowledge. So we have got so many branches, and we have to travel and encourage them. So now I am going to the eastern hemisphere*-from the western hemisphere to the eastern hemisphere. So I am going now in San Francisco. From there, I shall go to Hawaii, and then cross the international line, dividing East and West. Then we go to Manila, and therefrom we shall go to India. In Vṛndāvana we shall have Ūrja-vrata for one month. You also could observe ūrja-vrata here from the next Ekādaśī, one month. I have already instructed Karandhara to have a sky lamp and put candle in the evening to the Deity for one month. Each one, a small candle should... And then, after Ūrja-vrata, we have a big engagement in Hyderabad. And then in Bombay, then in Delhi. In this way. So in the meantime you go on with your work, hold the morning class, Bhāgavatam. Each verse try to understand scrutinizingly and worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Dress very gorgeously. Offer Them prasādam very gorgeously, and you take remnants of the foodstuff. So in this way keep yourself fit always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no chance for māyā to attack you.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



740715DP.LA

Departure Address

-

Los Angeles, July 15, 1974



*Prabhupāda: So you are engaged in the service of Śrī Rādhā*-Mādhava. He's present here. And I am very glad that you are doing very nice. Keep the standard. This Deity worship and chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra... Be always engaged in this business. It is a very important business. Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. Our mission is to go back to home, back to Godhead. So it is not very difficult thing. Very easy. But we do not want it. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, the matter is very simple. Kṛṣṇa says four things, that "Always think of Me..." Now, here is Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī, Kṛṣṇa, standing before you. Don't think that this is idol. No. Kṛṣṇa is present before you in that form to show you favor that you can handle with Kṛṣṇa. You can dress Him. You can give Him for eating. You can... To give you facilities. But Kṛṣṇa is here, and Rādhārāṇī is here. So He says, personally, that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto: "Always think of Me." So you are seeing Kṛṣṇa, and the impression is within your mind. As soon as you will close your eyes, you will see Kṛṣṇa within your heart. Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī is here, and if you see constantly, naturally the impression will be within your heart. So either you are in temple or outside the temple, you'll be able to see Kṛṣṇa always-if you practice. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are saintly persons, on account of love for Kṛṣṇa, they see always Kṛṣṇa within his heart. So this practice is not very difficult. It doesn't require M.A., Ph.D. education, or to become very rich or opulent. Nothing is required. Simply try to think of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is one item. It is not very difficult. And become His devotee. That you are practicing. Devotee means to hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant the glories of Kṛṣṇa, to think of Kṛṣṇa, to offer fruits and flowers to Kṛṣṇa. In this way, this is called devotional service. So to think of Kṛṣṇa and to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa is not at all difficult task. Then... Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "Worship Me." So here is the chance for worshiping Kṛṣṇa. Ārā..., bhoga-ārātrika. Temple. Keep the temple very cleansed. Dress Kṛṣṇa daily. You also dress nicely, take your bath, be pure. So man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "And just offer obeisances to Me." Even the child can do. They are doing it. It is not at all difficult. But simply by executing these four principles, Kṛṣṇa says, gives assurance, mām evaiṣyasi: "You come to Me." So our program is how to go back to home, back to Godhead, and the program is very simple. Some way or other, we have introduced this program in the Western countries, and you are so intelligent, you have very soon captured it. So stick to the standard; then your life is successful. It is not at all difficult. But don't deviate. Then you are pakka. Yes. Pakka means solid. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. If you remain solid in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the māyā cannot touch you. So that is my request.



So I am traveling all over the world. I am going to see how things are going in Dallas or New Vrindaban and another... So my touring is natural. I have started this movement. I want to see that it is going on nicely. So you kindly help me. Don't deviate. That is my only request. (starts to cry) Then you will remain solid.

Thank you very much. (end)



750218DP.MEX

Departure Lecture

-

Mexico City, February 18, 1975



Prabhupāda: (translated into Spanish by Hṛdayānanda) We left our home and father, and we are in this fallen material world, and we are suffering too much. It is exactly like a very rich man's son leaves home for independence and wanders all over the world, unnecessarily taking trouble. A rich man's son has nothing to do. His father's property is sufficient for his comfortable life. Still, as we have got examples now in the Western countries, many rich man's son becomes hippie, leaves home and unnecessarily takes trouble. Our position, our needs, we all living entities who are within this material world, is exactly like that. We have voluntarily come into this material world for sense enjoyment, and in sense enjoyment we have forgotten our supreme father, God. The material nature's duty is to give us simply miserable condition of life.



kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare



*means as soon as the living entity wants to enjoy life without Kṛṣṇa, without God, immediately he becomes under the clutches of māyā. This is our position. We are under the control of māyā, and we can get out of it also, as it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me he gets out of the control of māyā." We are, therefore, preaching all over the world Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, and teaching them how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and thus get out of the clutches of māyā. We have no other desire or ambition besides this. We plainly say, "Here is God. You surrender unto Him. You always think of Him, offer your obeisances. Then your life will be successful." But the people in general, they are exactly madmen. Simply for sense gratification, they are working so hard day and night.



*So devotees are very sorry to see their plight. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "I am very sorry for these persons." Who are they? Tato vimukha*-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. These rascals, vimūḍhan, they have created a civilization, gorgeous civilization. What is that? Just like in your country especially, a gorgeous truck for sweeping. The business is sweeping, and for that they have manufactured a gorgeous truck: "Gut, gut, gut, gut, gut, gut, gut." The sweeping can be done in hand. There are so many men. But they are loitering in the street, and a huge truck is required for sweeping. It is creating huge sound, and it is very dangerous also, but they are thinking, "This is advancement of civilization." Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, māyā-sukhāya. Just to get relief from sweeping... There is no relief; *they have got other troubles. But they are thinking, "Now we haven't got to sweep. It is a great relief." Similarly, a simple razor can be used for shaving, and they have got so many machines and, to manufacture the machines, so many factories. So in this way if we study, item by item, this kind of civilization is called demonic civilization. Ugra*-karma. Ugra-karma means ferocious activities.

So there is no objection for the material comforts, but actually we have to see whether they are comforts or miserable condition. Therefore our this human form of life is meant for saving time to develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not meant for wasting unnecessarily, because we do not know when the next death is coming, and if we do not prepare ourself for the next life, then at any moment we can die, and we have to accept a body offered by the material nature. Therefore I wish that all of you who have come to join this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement live very carefully so that māyā may not snatch you from the hand of Kṛṣṇa. We can keep ourself very steady simply by following the regulative principles and chanting, minimum, sixteen rounds. Then we are safe. So you have got some information about the perfection of life. Don't misuse it. Try to keep it very steadily, and your life will be successful. This movement does not stop anything for comfortable life, but it makes regulated. So if we follow the regulative principles and chant sixteen rounds, that is our safe position. I think this instruction you will follow. That is my desire.

Thank you very much. (end)



750225DP.CAR

Departure Lecture

-

Caracas, February 25, 1975



*Prabhupāda: (translated into Spanish by Hṛdayānanda) So I thank you very much for your kindly receiving me in this temple, and I was very happy. So my request is that you continue your devotional service very faithfully and rigidly, then in this life you will be able to see Kṛṣṇa face to face. That is a fact. So you follow the advice, as given by Rūpa Gosvāmī, utsāhāt. The first thing is enthusiasm, that "I must see Kṛṣṇa." You are seeing Kṛṣṇa. The Deity of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is not different. But even personally we can see. Simply we have to continue the enthusiasm. Enthusiasm means to take things very seriously, utsāhād dhairyāt, and patiently. Although we are determined to go back to home, back to Godhead, so we should patiently follow the rules and regulations. So these are the six principles: enthusiasm and firm determination and patience and executing the regulative principles, tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt, and sato vṛtteḥ, means behavior must be very honest, no duplicity, and utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, and sato vṛtteḥ, dealing must be very honestly, no hypocrisy, tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sādhu-saṅga, and in the association of devotees. If you follow these six principles, namely enthusiasm, determination, patience, and executing the regulative principles and keep yourself honest and in the association of devotee, if you follow these six principle, then your success is sure.



*So these are the six principle, positive. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati: "By following these six principle, success is assured." Similarly, there are opposite number. What is that? Atyāhāraḥ, eating too much. Atyāhāraḥ means eating too much or unnecessarily collecting too much. And prayāsaḥ. Prayāsaḥ means too much endeavoring for a thing, mean unnecessarily taking some anxiety. Don't do that. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsas prajalpaḥ, and talking nonsense, gossiping some subject matter which has no concern with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are accustomed to do that. We should avoid it. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ [No I 2]. Niyamāgrahaḥ means the positive rules and regulation, simply make a show but not actually realize it. Niyamāgrahaḥ, laulyam, and to become very greedy, and jana*-saṅgaś ca, and mixing with persons who are not devotee. These six things should be avoided, and the first things should be followed. Then your success in devotional service is sure. (Hṛdayānanda begins to translate and pauses) Prajalpaḥ, unnecessary gossiping. Just like people are wasting time taking one newspaper and talking for hours. These things should be avoided. And to associate with nondevotees. And greediness. These things should be avoided.

atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca

prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ

*laulyaṁ jana*-saṅgaś ca

ṣaḍbhir bhaktir pranaśyati

[No I 2]



If you indulge in these six items, then your devotional service will be finished. And the first six principles means,



utsāhād dhairyād niścayāt

*tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt

*sato vṛtteḥ sādhu*-saṅge

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati



By these six principles, you will advance, and the other six principles, you will fall down.



So under the guidance of your leaders in this temple, especially Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja, and if followed... One life, just take little trouble. It is no trouble; *it is very happy life. But because we are accustomed to these material habits, we think it is trouble. No. It is not trouble. It is very pleasing. Su*-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is... "To execute devotional service is very pleasing." I think...

Thank you very much for your... (end)



750312DP.LON

Departure Lecture

-

London, March 12, 1975



Prabhupāda: ...where he is? Oh, you have dressed? Very nice. Thank you.



*śrī*-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-

*śṛṅgāra*-tan-mandira-mārjanādau

yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



*So this is one of the items, to learn how to decorate the Deity, śrī-vigraha. Śrī means goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī. Kṛṣṇa is always associated with Lakṣmī. Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is the original goddess of fortune, and as all other Viṣṇu-mūrti, Nara... Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs. 5.39]. Kṛṣṇa is always existing-tiṣṭhan means existing-with many other forms simultaneously: Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha and Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu. So Viṣṇu and Nārāyaṇa is... There are many expansion. You have seen on the cover of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There are different planets, and each and every planet there is the predominating Deity, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu. They have got different names. So He is always associated with His eternal consort as well as devotees, many thousand, millions, in the spiritual world. In the material world... The creation of the material world is one-fourth demonstration of the whole creation, and this is one of the universes. In the material world there are innumerable universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was requested by one of His devotee that "Sir, You have come. You just liberate all the residents of this universe, and that will make me very happy. And if You think they are so impious they cannot be liberated, then I am ready to take up their sinful activities. But You take them away," at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Even one universe is liberated, still there are so many universes. This universe is just like one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds." So just imagine how many universes are there. All these together, that is one-fourth energy demonstration of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. It is only one-fourth of the demon..., manifestation. The three-fourth manifestation*-in the spiritual world. So just imagine God's creation. It is inconceivable by us, but we can learn it by śravaṇam. That is the only way. We, even in this material world, in this universe, we have heard of so many planets, but it is not possible to go and see. They cannot go even in the moon planet, and still, they are very much proud of their advancement of knowledge. So we cannot understand even. But if we patiently hear from the right source, then we can, may have some..., we may have some conception. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. Bhāvaḥ, or svabhāvaḥ, or nature, there is another nature. So we have to hear. By hearing... This is the beginning of bhakti, śravaṇam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. We have to hear, and after hearing, we have to repeat. That is called kīrtanam. So in this way there are nine different processes, you know. Navadhā bhakti.



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*So because these activities, devotional activities, are on the spiritual platform, all of them are Absolute. It is not that if you are hearing but you are not chanting, then your result will be little less than the other who is hearing and chanting. No. It is Absolute Truth. Just like if you taste a sugar candy, lump of sugar candy, from any side you taste, the sweetness is there. There is no difference, that if you taste this side, then it is more sweet than the other side. Kṛṣṇa is complete Absolute Truth. So any side. If you become expert in hearing, that is as good as one is engaged in other eight processes or nine processes. That is stated in the śāstra. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He simply listened. He did not do any other process. Śrī*-viṣṇu-śravaṇe parīkṣit. They got liberation simply by executing one of the nine different processes. So śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣid abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Parīkṣit Mahārāja got liberation simply by hearing. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he got liberation simply by chanting. And similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja, he got liberation simply by memorizing, smaraṇe; *Lakṣmījī, simply by serving the lotus feet of Nārāyaṇa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is in the absolute platform. There is no relativity. In the temple worship, as there are so many different duties-one is worshiping directly the Deity, decorating the Deity, and the other is washing the temple*-it does not mean that the one who is cleansing the Deity, he is less important than the person who is in the temple room, Deity room. No. Because it is absolute. The Deity... As the Deity is important, similarly, the floor of the temple is also important, same importance, because absolute. So in executing our devotional service we are engaged in different duties. Somebody is cooking. Somebody is decorating the Deity. Somebody is cleansing the floor. Somebody is going to sell books. Somebody is doing something. Everything-nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe, in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Because the relationship is there with Kṛṣṇa, then every activity which you are doing, that is complete. There is no such material distinction. Just like here in the material world somebody is sitting in the office chair and somebody is cleansing the office, so the cleaner is supposed to be lower than the officer, but in the spiritual world there is no such distinction. The officer and the cleaner, they are of the same importance. That is even Kṛṣṇa, with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual world. In Vṛndāvana the cowherds boys, they are playing with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms. They do not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They simply know how to love Kṛṣṇa, that's all. There is no need of thinking that "Kṛṣṇa is greater than the other cowherds boy. They are living entities." There is no such sense. Kṛṣṇa wants that. That is Goloka Vṛndāvana worship. Simply the center is Kṛṣṇa, and all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they love Kṛṣṇa, and they do not know anything except Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana life. Everyone knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my very intimate friend." Somebody knows, "Kṛṣṇa is my son," somebody knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my master," and somebody is thinking, "Kṛṣṇa is my lover." But center is Kṛṣṇa. The cows, the calves, the friends, the gopīs, and the cowherds boy, Kṛṣṇa's father, Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa's mother, Yaśomatī, and... Everyone's center is Kṛṣṇa, "How Kṛṣṇa will be happy?" This is Vṛndāvana life. If we try to follow the footsteps of the residents of Vṛndāvana, how to love Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful.



*That is the recommendation of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Premā pum-artho mahān. Pum-artho means puruṣārtha, or the goal of life. The goal of life in the material world, generally, not for the animals but for the human being, the goal of life, generally-religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. Some people are interested to become pious, religious, because by becoming pious and religious their economic development will be automatically there. And some of them are interested in simply in economic development for satisfaction of the senses. And some of them*-they are considered to be the topmost-interested in liberation. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, he is not interested in either of these four items. He is interested how to love Kṛṣṇa. That is pure devotion. That is paneama-puruṣārtha (?). So people do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. People do not know it generally. If one is very pious man, he wants to be religious, moralist, religious. And others, karmīs, they are interested how to develop economic position. And others, they are simply interested in sense gratification. This is material world. And when these materialistic persons are disgusted, then they want liberation. Their liberation means to become one, merge into the existence of the Supreme. That is not very difficult. They give the example that the water mixes with the vast mass of water, and they become one. But that is not the fact. You can make an experiment that you take a little red water and put it in the ocean. The ocean does not become red. So chemically also, the water, they are composition of molecules of water. But it is mixed with water. That is a fact, but there is another process which evaporates the water. Suppose you are mixed with the water. The Māyāvādī philosophy, that "We... Let us mix with the big water. Then I become big..." Because here in the material world he tried to become big in so many ways but he could not become big, therefore he wants to merge into the biggest, Brahman, so that he thinks that he will become... He is already Brahman. So the Brahman effulgence is combination of so many sparks of living entities.

*So this philosophy, to merge into the big Brahman, Supreme Brahman, or effulgence, brahmajyoti, that is not very secure position. It is said in the śāstra that āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ: [SB 10.2.32] they fall down. We have seen that many Māyāvādī philosophers or sannyāsīs, they give up this world as mithyā, false, but after some time, they again come to this false material world for some philanthropic work, humanitarian work, because they could not get Kṛṣṇa. If you have left this world as false, then why you are coming again to give service to the world? No. They could not get. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. Paraṁ padam means Brahman. Patanty adhaḥ: "They fall down." Why? Anādṛta*-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ: "Because they neglected the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." They did not get any shelter. Just like if you go very high in the sky but if you don't get a shelter, then again you come back. Just like these moon-planet-goers, they attempted many times jumping, but they could not get any shelter. They have come back again. Now they have I think left off. What is that? "Grapes are sour." After jumping, jumping, the jackal, when he could not get the grapes, then he says that "Grapes are sour." That is... (laughter) "No need." So these so-called scientists, after jumping like the jackal, could not get any place in the moon planet, and they have come down again. It is not possible. You cannot go to any of the planets, although they are material. You cannot... Just like you cannot go to any country without getting the visa permit, similarly... There are many planets. They are open for your entrance, but not in that way, that by force you will go. That is not possible.

*Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. You have to qualify yourself to enter into such planets. They are called heavenly planets. You cannot enter by force. Therefore we are conditioned. We are not free. We are conditioned. We should always remember that we are conditioned by the material nature. We cannot... We are not free. We are not independent. That we are forgetting. At the present moment the trained-up civilization is that everyone is thinking that he is independent, he can do whatever he likes, he can manufacture his own process of religious principles. These maddened ideas are there. No. Religious principle you cannot manufacture. Just like law. You cannot say that "I will manufacture my own law." No. That is not possible. Law means state's law, and you have to abide by that. That is law. You cannot avoid it. You cannot say that "I won't accept the state laws. I will make my own laws." That is not possible. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the laws and the regulation given by God. That is dharma. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is real dharma. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra: "In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam all cheating types of religious principle is rejected." The real dharma is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is real dharma. And any religion which does not teach this principle, to surrender to God, Kṛṣṇa, and love Him... hat is real religion. Therefore Bhāgavata teaches that real religion, Bhāgavata-dharma. And Bhāgavata declares in the beginning that "All cheating type of religious system is rejected, kicked out." Projjhita. Projjhita means just like you wash your floor or sweep your floor and collect the dust and throw it away, similarly, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the unwanted so-called religious system, they have been collected and thrown away. Here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is only one religious system, which is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā in the last chapter, Eighteenth Chapter, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If we accept this principle, then we enter into the Bhāgavata-dharma. Otherwise there is no entrance in the Bhāgavata-dharma.

*For the Māyāvādī who wants to become one with the Supreme... You can become one. One means the same thing, a small portion of the water. But our philosophy is not to mix up with the water superficially but enter into the water and live there like fish, big, big fish. That is our philosophy. What is the use of becoming one with the water? Go within the water and live there like a whale fish, perpetually. That is our philosophy. So that is secure philosophy, because as soon as actually you become a big fish within the water, there is no question of evaporation. But if you live, remain superficially on the water, then you will be evaporated again and again thrown outside, then again come as river. So your coming and going, repetition of birth and death, will not stop. But one should become a big fish, there is no evaporation. These things are explained in the Bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu by Rūpa Gosvāmī. So don't be misled by this Māyāvāda philosophy, that you fall into the water. Tohe janame punaḥ tohe visarata (?). They say that "Enter into the Supreme." You can enter, but what is the benefit? You will be again evaporated. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Because living entity by nature is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), by nature they want pleasure, every one of us. Every one of us, we are struggling so hard. Why? To get some pleasure. Nobody is trying so hard to making suicide. Is anybody there in this material world who is working so hard for ultimately making suicide? No. Everyone is trying to become happy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Because he wants. That is his nature, sat-cit-ānanda: eternal life, full of knowledge and full of bliss. This is real life. So if we simply accept eternity like the Māyāvādīs, then what about the other two items? Or if we simply live in knowledge... Suppose theoretically I know so many things to prepare-rasagullā, sandeśa, halavā, kachorī-but if I do not practically taste what is halavā, what is kachorī, then what is the use of simply having knowledge? So the Māyāvādī philosophy like that, jñāna, simply knowledge. That knowledge is there in the Bhagavad-gītā in the beginning, the first lesson: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam [Bg. 2.13]. "Within the body there is the soul. That soul is eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Na jāyate na mriya... This is the first lesson, that "I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. I am eternal. I do not die even after the annihilation..." This is the first lesson. It doesn't require much time, that we have to devote our whole life to understand that "I am Brahman." It can be understood even by a child. It is not very difficult. But how to engage myself as Brahman, that requires education. That is,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



*So these things begins after self*-realization. Otherwise, why one should be interested about Viṣṇu, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ? One is interested, "What is the report of the share market?" That's all. He should hear that? No. The śāstra says, "No. You should hear about Viṣṇu only." That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that "You hear about Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, and not anybody else. There are so many politicians, big, big other materialistic person. We can hear about him. Just like people are reading the biography of big, big politicians and spoiling their time. We are not interested. We are not interested. We are interested only to hear about Viṣṇu. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are inter... So many biographies are there. People are interested. But our literature... We have published so many, about fifty books-only on Kṛṣṇa. That's all, nothing else. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. These three processes is going on. The publication means śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Or smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. They are of Viṣṇu. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Stick to this principle. Don't try to hear anything else. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavaḥ.



*tad*-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

*nāmāny viṣṇu*-yaśo 'ṅkitaṇi

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

[SB 1.5.11]



*And, on the other hand, na tad vacaś citra*-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta kar..., na pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. To the devotees, a literature, a so-called literature, very nicely written, with decorated words, metaphorism and these things... Tad-vāg-visargo, na tad vacaś citra-padam, very nicely, literally very nicely decorated, na tad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo na pragṛṇīta karhicit, but there is no mention about Kṛṣṇa and His glories... Just like especially in the Western countries you have got newspaper, big, big bunch of newspaper, but not a single line is there about Kṛṣṇa, not a single. So for the devotees this kind of literature is compared with the garbage. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. Just like vāyasam, crows. The crows gather together where? Where everything nuisance thrown away, they gather together. You will find. That is the nature amongst the class of bird. Where all nasty things are thrown away, the crows will gather. The another bird, swans, they will not go there. The swans will gather in a very nice garden with clear water, lotus flower, and birds, and singing. They will gather there. As there are... By nature, there are different classes of animals, even in the birds, beasts. "The birds of the same feather flock together."



*So where the crows go, the swans do not go. And where the swans go, the crows have no access. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for the swans, not for the crows. So try to remain swans, rāja*-haṁsa or paramahaṁsa. Haṁsa means swan. Even if we have got this little place, don't go to the place of the crows, the so-called clubs, restaurant, brothel, dancing club, and... People are... Especially in the Western countries, they are very much busy with these places. But don't remain crow. Become swans simply by this process, chanting and hearing about Kṛṣṇa. This is the process, to remain paramahaṁsa. Dharma-projjhita-kaitava atra nirmatsarāṇām. Dharma-projjhita-kaitava atra paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. This Bhāgavata-dharma, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām. Matsara, matsarata. Matsara means envy. I am envious of you. You are envious of me. This is material world. Just like so many envious persons are there in this quarter, simply lodging complaint against us. We have got good experience of this. So the Bhāgavata-dharma is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām. Matsarata means one who cannot endure or can tolerate others' advancement. That is called matsarata. That is the nature of everyone. Everyone is trying to advance more. The neighbor is envious: "Oh, this man is going ahead. I could not." This is... Even if he is brother, even if he is son, this is the nature of the... So therefore this Bhāgavata-dharma is not meant for such persons, who are envious. It is meant for the paramo nirmatsarāṇām, who has given up this envy or envious attitude ultimately. Now, how it is possible? It is possible only when you have learned how to love Kṛṣṇa. Then it is possible. Then you will see that "Everyone is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. So he is suffering for want of his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let me speak something about Him, about Kṛṣṇa. Let me give some literature to him about Kṛṣṇa so that one day he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become happy." This is śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇam process. We should ourself also continuously hear from authoritative literature, person, and continuously go on chanting the same thing, repetition. That's all. Then everything will be happy atmosphere. Otherwise the crows assembly in the garbage will continue, and nobody will be happy.

Thank you very much. (end)



750620RC.HAW

Conversation

-

Hawaii, June 20, 1975



Prabhupāda: So why not serve the supreme strong (?)?



*Siddha*-svarūpa: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is natural. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. Mahat means bigger and more powerful, and nunam means there are less powerful. So everyone is less powerful than God. Then why don't you serve God? That is the perfection. You have to serve somebody strong. You cannot avoid it. Just study all status of society, animal society or human society. The law is that the stronger is dominating the weaker. That is the law. You cannot avoid it. So wherefrom this idea came unless it is in God? Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. All ideas come from the Supreme. That is the law, that the strong predominate over the weak. So who can be stronger than God? So this is our natural position, to serve God.



*Siddha*-svarūpa: Yes. And He is a nice master.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfect master. Even without becoming master He is providing everything. Even though those who do not accept Him, He is also giving them. So what to speak of those who have accepted Him? This is very simple philosophy. It is His position to accept service. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. It is good for the person who surrenders. Kṛṣṇa doesn't require your service. When He says, "You surrender to Me," it does not mean that Kṛṣṇa is suffering for your service. Kṛṣṇa is self-sufficient. He can create millions of servants like you. So He doesn't require your service. But if you serve, then it is your benefit. You become saved: "Now I am under the protection of a very able..." [break] ...and every respect, opulence of master. You are serving cats and dogs. Why not serve the most supreme, able and opulent master? This is going on. You have to serve. You cannot say, "No, no. I will not serve. I am independent." That is not possible. You have to serve. You have to serve, and you will be exploited, by the imperfect masters. So why not serve the perfect master so that you will not be exploited again? It is simple.



*Siddha*-svarūpa: [break] ...being servants, but we're...



Prabhupāda: You have to serve. If you do not serve, the strong will force you to serve.



*Siddha*-svarūpa: And it's the most horrible service, too.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now this, as you say that the Hawaiians, they are meant for cleansing the hotel to get some money. And without money, he cannot live. So he forced to serve. What are the tanks? Petrol?



*Siddha*-svarūpa: I think so. Yeah. Shell Oil.



*Prabhupāda: [break] Therefore the good intelligence is kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśān teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ: "I have served. I have served the so*-called master. Actually I have served my senses." As they come to the hotel for sense gratification and do all nonsense and I have to serve him, so why I am serving? Oh, that is also for serving my senses. Without money I cannot serve my senses.



*Siddha*-svarūpa: Yes. So that's ultimately the problem.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) Ultimately the problem, that we have to serve, and ultimately we have to serve our senses. Senses means lusty desires, kāmādīnām. Kāma means lust.



*Siddha*-svarūpa: Addicted.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. Kāma means lusty. Krodha means anger. If my lusty desire is not fulfilled, then I become angry. Then I have to serve anger. Kāma, krodha. Then I become more greedy. Kāma krodha lobha. Then I become illusioned, moha. Then I become envious. In this way I have become implicated. So this service of this material world means I become more and more implicated. Therefore a devotee says, "My Lord, now I have got sense." What is that sense? "Now I am meant for service, I have rendered service, but nobody has become happy, either the master or myself. Therefore now I have got intelligence: why not serve You? You are the supreme master. So I have come to You. Please engage me in Your service." This is full surrender. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. By serving this material objective, there is no peace. Everyone is unhappy although they are rendering service and taking service. This is going on, but nobody is happy because this is artificial. Real service... Unless the thing comes to the real point, there is no peace. Here everyone is trying to become master, and everyone wants to avoid service. But by the nature's law, one has to become servant and render service. Going on. Conglomeration. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. [break] (end)





750627DP.LA

Departure Conversation

-

Los Angeles, June 27, 1975



Rāmeśvara: ...sketch for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Rāmeśvara: It is very basic. But this will be the cover of the Antya*-līlā, volume two. It is a scene of all of the devotees at a big feast, and Lord Nityānanda is there, and Lord Caitanya is invisible except to a few devotees.



Prabhupāda: Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī's feast.



Rāmeśvara: Yes. So the questions they have are: While Lord Nityānanda is inducing all the devotees to chant, can some of the devotees be paying their daṇḍavats to Lord Nityānanda at that time? And the other question is: Although Lord Caitanya cannot be seen, except for a few devotees...



Prabhupāda: No, only Nityānanda.



Rāmeśvara: Nityānanda only. But can He be shown also with His hand upraised in the air?



Prabhupāda: No. Why?



Rāmeśvara: Well, they want to make Lord Caitanya very prominent, because this will be on the cover of the book.



Prabhupāda: You can make it, visible, invisible. Visible, invisible.



Rāmeśvara: You instructed that they should not paint Lord Caitanya transparent even though He's invisible. Just like in the *Gītā*, when Arjuna saw the universal form, it was painted very solid all over.



Prabhupāda: Arjuna saw solid; others did not.



Rāmeśvara: But whenever it says that Lord Caitanya cannot be seen, still, we should paint Him solid?



Prabhupāda: No, no. Cannot be seen is not that.



Rāmeśvara: Well, invisible except to the eyes of Nityānanda Prabhu.



Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]



*Rāmeśvara: ...and nine volumes of Madhya*-līlā, and five volumes of Antya-līlā.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Then three...



*Rāmeśvara: Seventeen volumes just of Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. And then about five volumes of Fifth Canto.



*Prabhupāda: Twenty*-two volumes. So instead of seventeen, you have to print twenty-two.



Rāmeśvara: Four are printed.



Devotee: Four are already printed.



Rāmeśvara: So that leaves eighteen. But we will have it all out to the printers by Janmāṣṭamī.



Prabhupāda: Janmāṣṭamī?



Rāmeśvara: End of August.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.



Jayatīrtha: And when will it start coming back from the printers, Rāmeśvara?



Rāmeśvara: Well, I think that... [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...Bhāgavatam and Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, anywhere you go, scholarly circle, university man, they will take. They will take. Any part of the world, it will be taken.



*Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Madhya*-līlā it describes Lord Caitanya taking His tour in the south of India. So I was thinking that there are so many photographs.



Prabhupāda: You can insert.



Rāmeśvara: In the middle of the book we will have an insert just of the places Lord Caitanya visited.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Rāmeśvara: It will be like a bonus for those books.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Temples in South India, yes. Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. As you want to serve, He will give you more intelligence. Buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānām. Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam.



Rāmeśvara: It depends on Nitai working fast.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Rāmeśvara: With the books coming out at one time, even the devotees cannot afford to buy them all. Seventeen books at one time, Jayatīrtha! Most of the temples don't read Caitanya*-caritāmṛta as part of their regular study. They usually read the Bhāgavatam in the morning...



Prabhupāda: Let them read whatever they like. Let them read. They must read something. [break]



Rāmeśvara: ...story of Choṭa Haridāsa. I was very surprised to find that his talking with that woman was actually for the service of Lord Caitanya. It says that he went to an advanced devotee's house to get some rice.



Prabhupāda: No. It is not that. There was some young woman sitting there, and he glanced over her with lusty desire, not that old woman.



Rāmeśvara: That was her sister? Or daughter.



Prabhupāda: No. Daughter, granddaughter maybe. She was a very old lady.



*Rāmeśvara: In that same volume of Antya*-līlā there is a very elaborate description of Rūpa Gosvāmī being inspired to write his different plays, and I was thinking that in that book we could print the pictures of the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple which he founded. He established that temple. And also the bhajan-kutir of Rūpa Gosvāmī.



Prabhupāda: You have got the photo.



Rāmeśvara: We have very nice pictures of both those places. Because so much of the book is describing Rūpa Gosvāmī's writings...



*Prabhupāda: Everything of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We are called rūpānuga, "strictly following the footstep of Rūpa Gosvāmī." Rūpānuga*-varāya te. And our Guru Mahārāja was..., rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe: "Anything against the plan of Rūpa Gosvāmī, not accepted." Rūpa-raghunātha-pade yāra āśa, caitanya-caritāmṛta kahe kṛṣṇadāsa. What are these flags?



Jayatīrtha: They're flags, I think, of different nations. This is international airport. So they put so many flags, of all friendly countries. Russian flag, Chinese flag are not there. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...by United? No.



Brahmānanda: Continental. DC 10. [break]



Rāmeśvara: ...spoke to Ambarīṣa dāsa yesterday, and he said he will make a plan to come and visit Your Divine Grace in Denver because he is so close by.



Brahmānanda: He's in Wyoming now?



Rāmeśvara: Wyoming, finishing up some business there. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...parking car?



Jayatīrtha: Yes. In Los Angeles there's one car for every 1.3 people. Seven million cars for ten million people.



Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is the largest number?



Jayatīrtha: Yes. Biggest car population in the world. Biggest smog problem. [break]



Prabhupāda: Where is your mother? Where is your father?



Nandinī: Agnideva's at New York.



Rāmeśvara: We're going to send Nandinī to Māyāpur, to go to Gurukula in Māyāpur.



Prabhupāda: Will you go to Māyāpur?



Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: With your mother or alone?



Nandinī: I don't know. I don't know... (end)



Philosophy Discussions





Discussions with Syāmasundara dāsa





LEIBNITZ.SYA



Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibnitz



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz. Leibnitz was a great mathematician. He invented the calculus. But he was also a philosopher. He said that in the universe every act is purposeful; that the purpose of the universe is to realize the goals set forth by God.



*Prabhupāda: Very nice. I see that he's first*-class. Yes. Actually the aim is to reach God. That is the Bhāgavata version: na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. These rascals, fools, they do not know that the goal is to reach God. This version, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Durāśayā means they are hoping something which is never to be realized. All these people... [break] Actually this is the point: surrender. But they are so rascal they will not do it; therefore māyā is giving them trouble in every way, ultimately. Just like my Guru Mahārāja's plan was that I should come and preach. That was his first instruction. But I wanted that I will not take sannyāsa and remain as a gṛhastha, and then I shall do it. That is special favor. Kṛṣṇa says, yasya anugṛhnī harisye... "Especially if I am very much anxious to get one reformed, by My mercy, the first thing is that I take away all his money."



Śyāmasundara: Where is this stated?



*Prabhupāda: It is in Bhāgavata. This question was raised by Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. So sometimes that is special favor. By force the whole plan is like that, but everyone wants to delay. By special favor he draws by force, "Come on. This time." Because that is explained in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta that a rascal, he wants Kṛṣṇa, or he wants God, but at the same time he wants to enjoy this material world, because to want God means finish with material world. But sometimes he is both ways. When Kṛṣṇa sees the other way is hampering, He breaks his profit by force, so that in helpless condition. Everything is explained in the Bhāgavata. "I take away his all money. He may try to get money-again I take. So in this way, when he becomes hopeless and there is no money, then he surrenders to Me." And as soon as he has no money, his so-called relatives, friends, wife, children, they neglect, "Oh, what is this man? He is useless." So he is bereft of money, he is bereft of friends, bereft of any love from wife and children, then hopelessly he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So the plan is that: all these rascal living entities, those who are trying to be happy in this material world, nature's plan is to give him trouble-every attempt shall be frustrated, every attempt shall fail-so that he may come, after many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 7.19]. So He has pointed out that there is a plan, and this is the plan: to bring you back to home, back to Godhead. It is not partial, that somebody may remain here and somebody may go to Godhead. No. The whole plan is that everyone must come back. But he is obstinate, he is obstinate. Just like a bad boy, father says, "Come on," he's not. He's crying, "No, I'll not go." But the father's only business is to drag him. Therefore the final, after speaking all the proposals in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says finally, "I am giving you final, very confidential instructions," sarva guhyatamam. "You give up all this rascaldom, arguing with Me. Just surrender unto Me." Arjuna was arguing. "Just surrender unto Me. That is your business. If you think you will be sinful by killing your... I will give you protection." Therefore, before citing this verse He says, "I am speaking to you most confidentially." That means unless one is very sincere to God, he does not heed the final confidential instruction. "All right, you go on with your own work." But to show Arjuna special favor, He says that "I am talking to you now the most confidential instruction. I have talked to you about karma, jñāna, yoga, and so many things, but the most confidential thing is this: that you fully surrender to Me. I will give you all protection."



Śyāmasundara: He explains the mechanistic phenomena, like the laws of nature. He explains that that is the only effective means of fulfilling God's purpose.



Prabhupāda: That's it. Yes. All the laws of nature are working (indistinct). The body is durgā, the superintendent of the fort. This is called durgā. Just like fort is very much fortified; you cannot go; *they say nobody can enter, nobody can leave, like that. This is called durgā. And the superintendent is called Durgā. From durgā it has come to Durgā. She is also confidential maidservant of Kṛṣṇa, but she has got (indistinct) to punish these demons. Demon is (indistinct), that I worship his mother, but mother is engaged to punish him because (indistinct). She is giving whatever the demon wants. "Give me money. Give me good wife. Give me reputation. Give me strength." "All right," but at the same time everything is frustrated with this (indistinct). Two things are going on. One thing, that whatever he wants he is given: "I will get it." On the other side, punishment. This is nature's flow, and she is doing this under the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. "This living entity, he has, or he wants immediately to become an enjoyer, so give him all sources of material enjoyment, but at the same time go on punishing him." Just like sometimes politicians give them everything (indistinct) military force. So that is going on. And this nature is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That is confirmed in the Brahma*-saṁhitā, (Sanskrit). Durgā, the goddess of the fortress of the material world, she is so powerful that she can create such things, she can maintain cities, (indistinct) she has got all the power. (indistinct), she is so powerful. Her name is Durgā. But (indistinct), but she is working just like a shadow. Shadow is called not independent-moving. Here is shadow; *I move this hand, then it is moving. She is called (indistinct). But the movement is from Kṛṣṇa. Sṛṣṭi*-sthiti (Sanskrit). All our activities are just like shadows. Icchānurūpam (Sanskrit). She is working under the direction of Govinda. Therefore, "I worship Govinda, the cause of all causes." This is stated in Brahma-saṁhitā.



*So these rascals, foolish, they are thinking material nature is for our enjoyment. That is the materialistic view. There is a flower. "Nature has produced this flower for me. Everything is for me." Just like in the Bible, Jesus Christ says the animals are given under the protection of man. So they are thinking, "They are given to us for eating. God has given." Suppose I entrust Brahmānanda Swami that you give him protection, but if you think, "He's in my protection. I can eat him..." How intelligent! How magnanimous! They are giving protection by eating. And the Māyāvādī philosophers support them, that when they eat animals, Vivekananda's philosophy, "So what is there? I am Brahman, he is Brahman, so we become united." What is that? And I ask him, "Why don't you go to the tiger Brahman?" Because they are thinking that he is Brahman, the goat is Brahman, so when the man Brahman eats the goat Brahman, they unite. So why don't you unite with the tiger Brahman? This is rascaldom. They are all rascals. Anyone who has no trace of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is a rascal. There is our challenge. (indistinct) He may be great philosopher, religionist*-he is a rascal, degree only. Cent percent rascal, or maybe ninety percent rascal, or seventy percent rascal, but they're all rascals. The same example: stool, this side and that side. Because the upside of stool is dried up, you cannot say, "It is very nice." And they're all stool. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, who does not know the science of Kṛṣṇa, he's useless.

Śyāmasundara: Leibnitz believed that truth could be represented by symbols and made into an exact science, a mathematical science of symbols. He founded the school of symbolic logic.



Prabhupāda: What is that, symbol? What is the symbol of a good man, and what is the symbol of a bad man? We have got the symbol. If one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is good man. If he is not, he is bad man. That is our symbolic representation.



Śyāmasundara: He is talking more about mechanistic truths, scientific truths, laws of nature...



*Prabhupāda: But this is also scientific truth. Just like, according to Vedic scripture, this black body is a sign of sinful life. Therefore brāhmaṇas are called śukla. Brāhmaṇas are fair complexioned. Still it is said if a brāhmaṇa is black, then he is not a real brāhmaṇa born. Kalu*-ban means black man. Black brāhmaṇa is to be understood that his father is not real brāhmaṇa. He is born of somebody else, but he is known as brāhmaṇa. Similarly a śūdra, if he is fair-complected, he is also not real. Kalba kata śūdra bete mussulman. Muslim, if he is a dwarf, he is not real Muslim, because Muslims from Afghanistan are very tall. And kaṅki chale, the son of a prostitute, and puṣṭi putra, adopted son, all of them are rascals. Puṣṭi putra, adopted son, he gets money because a rich man, when he hasn't got a son, he takes somebody else, adopted son, and he gets money for nothing and spends like anything. We have seen it in London. One Mr. Sil, he got immense money, and he died a penniless street beggar. And he was an adopted son. I have seen it. His only business was how to spoil his adopted father's money. And we have seen, he was such a rich man, died a street beggar. This I have seen.



Śyāmasundara: Leibnitz says that there are two classes of truth.



Prabhupāda: What are the symptoms of truth? That he has not explained.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. He divides it into two classes. One is there are logically necessary principles, the truths of reason as innate knowledge, just like the three sides of a triangle equal 180 degrees. That is innate knowledge, or logically necessary truth. This is also called a priori knowledge, or knowledge that exists independently. Then he says that there is knowledge acquired by experience, or a posteriori, accidental knowledge*-just like snow is white, but it could be red; *it's possible that it could be red*-this type of truth which comes from our experience but it's accidental and it is not necessary.



Prabhupāda: So real truth is that God has got a plan, and one who knows it, that is real truth. One who hasn't got to be taught by another man but by nature, he knows it; *that by nature he knows it, that is a symptom of his life, true life. And one who does not know it, that is not. That is explained in Caitanya*-caritāmṛta, nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakta. That truth is there already, but he has forgotten it. Therefore by this propaganda of devotional service, chanting and hearing, he simply revives the truth. The truth is there, that I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the conclusion should be anyone who is cognizant of this truth that I am eternal servant, that is symptom of this truth. There is no other symptom. That is the symptom of truth, that is the symptom of goodness, all good qualities, everything good. He is good by nature. The living entity, he is part and parcel of the supreme good. But by his material association he has become bad. So again he has to draw it to goodness by this propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our business.



Śyāmasundara: He says there are two types of truth. One is just like the principle of a triangle, there are three angles equal to 180 degrees, and the other type of truth is gathered by experience. For instance, we see that snow is white, but it is also possible that snow may be red.



Prabhupāda: But this is also experienced, that the three angles of a triangle make 180 degrees.



Śyāmasundara: But this truth exists independently, without any...



Prabhupāda: How independently? Not everyone knows what is a triangle, what is an angle, and what is a degree. When one comes to study geometry, then he understands. You cannot ask any child or any man who has no knowledge of geometry that these three angles of a triangle makes 180 degrees...



Śyāmasundara: But this truth exists, whether the man knows it or not. This truth exists, that three sides of a triangle equals 180 degrees.



Prabhupāda: But truth means it exists. Not this truth or that truth. Truth means that. That you may know or not know, but it exists. That is truth. So why is he making this example?



Śyāmasundara: Because there is also a truth that snow is white, they say snow is white, but that truth is not absolute because snow could be red also. But a triangle must always equal 180 degrees. That is an absolute truth, a necessary truth.



Prabhupāda: So any mathematical calculation is like that. Why this example? Mathematical means this: Two plus two equals four. That is always the truth.



Śyāmasundara: He is trying to prove that there are certain truths that we cannot deny they exist independent of our knowledge. Fundamental. And there are other truths that people say, like snow is white, which may not be true because our senses deceive us.



Prabhupāda: That is your defective senses. But snow is white, that's a fact. Why should it be red? At least we have no experience with red snow.



Śyāmasundara: I've seen red snow.



Prabhupāda: How it is?



Śyāmasundara: Particles of lava dust gathered in the snow and in the air...



Prabhupāda: That is not pure snow. That is another thing. Pure snow is white. Just like water. Water, by nature, it is crystal. But when it comes in touch with the earth, it becomes muddy. So that muddiness is due to contact with something external. Snow is white by nature, but in contact with something else it looks red. But the truth that snow is white, that is truth. Not that snow becoming red... You are making, or by some other contact it is looking like that. But snow is white, that's a truth.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that there are two types of truth. There's innate truth...



Prabhupāda: This is innate truth: as three angles of a triangle are equal to 180 degrees, similarly snow is white. Snow is white, water is liquid, stone is hard, chili is hot, sugar is sweet. These are eternal truths, fundamental truths. Similarly, a living entity is eternal servant of God. This is eternal truth. It cannot be changed. Water is liquid. That is the natural position, but when water becomes hard, it is due to temperature, under certain conditions, but as soon as the temperature reduces, the water becomes liquid. So liquidity of water is truth. Similarly, whiteness of snow is truth. Similarly, servitude of the living entity is truth. But he is serving māyā. That is untruth. If we take that there are two types of truth, there cannot be two kinds of truth. Truth is one. What we take as truth, that is māyā.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, there's only one truth.



Prabhupāda: Yes. There can't be two truths.



Śyāmasundara: But due to our imperfect senses...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is what is called māyā. Māyā has no existence, but it appears like truth. The same example: the shadow has no existence, but it also looks like my finger, and everything exactly. In the mirror you see your face exactly the same, but it is untruth. The truth is one. Truth cannot be two types of truth. What is taken as truth for the present moment, and by experience he comes to the right truth, that is called māyā.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these two types of truth are governed by two different principles: the truth of reason or the logically necessary proof, like the triangle...



Prabhupāda: This is reason, that truth is one. When we find another competitor truth, that is māyā. Truth cannot be two.



Śyāmasundara: This is what he says, that these innate truths are governed by the principle of contradiction. That is, the opposite of the truth is impossible to conceive. If something is true, the opposite of that truth is impossible to conceive.



Prabhupāda: The opposite is māyā. Opposite to truth is māyā.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the sum of the angles of a triangle must equal 180 degrees. It is impossible to conceive of the opposite.



Prabhupāda: Similarly, the other example that snow is white. To think of snow not white, that cannot be conceived.



Śyāmasundara: He says that "snow is white" is not one of these eternal truths; that it is possible to conceive that snow could be red.



Prabhupāda: Why? You say that redness of snow is possible under certain circumstances?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So that is possible in every case. Therefore the real feature of snow is not red. It appears to be red under certain conditions, but that is not truth; that is untruth.



Śyāmasundara: What about two plus two equals four?



Prabhupāda: That is true.



Śyāmasundara: It's impossible to conceive of the opposite of that truth. So that is what he would call logically necessary proof, proved by the law of contradiction.



Prabhupāda: My point is that he says that there are two types of truth. No. There cannot be two types of truth. That is my protest. I say there is only one truth. When you think two types of truth, then you are mistaken. Then same thing: when you think that two plus two equals five, then you are mistaken. Two plus two is always four. That is truth. Similarly, snow is white always. That is truth. When you think it is red, it is untruth. But you cannot say it is another type of truth. Mistake cannot be accepted as another type of truth. Mistake is mistake.



Śyāmasundara: I think he says the same things, but the language is different.



*Prabhupāda: There are two types of truth*-what is that language? One truth is real truth, another truth is shadow truth. It is not truth, it is shadow. That is the exact language. The same example we can give: you see your face in the mirror as exactly the same, but it is shadow; therefore it is untruth. You cannot say that this reflection of your face on the mirror is another type of truth. Can you say like that? You cannot say that.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he would say that if I saw the shadow of myself in the mirror...



Prabhupāda: No. Whatever he may say, we cannot accept that there are two types of truth. That is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: He calls this type of truth conditional truth.



Prabhupāda: The conditional truth is the untruth.



Śyāmasundara: Just like if I saw by my senses some snow that was red.



Prabhupāda: That is due to your defect of seeing a condition and not knowing the condition.



Śyāmasundara: But I can explain by sufficient reasons why that snow is red.



Prabhupāda: Just like a living entity is trying to become master-"I am the monarch of all I survey." That is untruth. The truth is that he is eternal servant. You cannot say that because one is trying to be imitation God, that that is another truth. You cannot say that. That is māyā. There cannot be a second God. God is one. That is truth, absolute truth. Our point is that we do not accept this proposition, that there are two types of truth. That is not at all acceptable. Truth is one.



Śyāmasundara: Supposing you saw some ice, and you said, "Due to there being cold, this water has turned hard and become ice."



Prabhupāda: That is another proposition. Water is liquid, but when water becomes hard, that is artificial. But that hardness... Snow is white, that is truth. Otherwise nothing is truth except Kṛṣṇa. Relative truth. Kṛṣṇa is absolute truth. There are relative truths. So this is relative truth. Kṛṣṇa is substance. Now, from Kṛṣṇa everything is emanating by His energy. Water is also one of the energies, but that energy is not absolute truth, that water. But in that relativeness, the water's liquidity is truth. But it is relative truth.



Śyāmasundara: This is what he is saying, that there's absolute truth and relative truth.



Prabhupāda: Absolute truth is one. Then he can say that absolute truth and relative truth, not that two types of truth.



Śyāmasundara: That's what he says: there are relative truths and absolute truths.



Prabhupāda: That we accept. There are truths, relative and absolute.



*Śyāmasundara: And he says that the test for both types-of absolute truth and relative truth*-is that for absolute truth, it is impossible to conceive of the opposite.



Prabhupāda: Opposite is māyā. Māyā is not truth. Māyā is illusion.



Śyāmasundara: Relative truths are governed by the law of sufficient reason. In other words, they can be most reasonably explained by reference to all of the conditions in which they are found.



*Prabhupāda: Just like you can explain how the snow is formed*-the molecular structure of the water, and how they become compact by temperature...



Śyāmasundara: He says that everything goes by steps in nature, and not by leaps. In other words, there is a law of continuity, like there are no gaps in nature. Everything is gradual. There is a gradual differentiation.



*Prabhupāda: No. There are two ways*-gradual and immediate also. Of course, in one sense... [break] ...little force, it goes quickly. The ball has no power. So wonderful things are happening in the material nature due to the will of the Supreme. Everything happening is the same process; *it is undergoing the process, but the method, pushed by God, it takes automatically. Just like He created this material nature. It is in the beginning nonmanifest, then gradually it grows three qualities, and by the interaction of qualities so many things come out*-the sky comes, and as soon as the sky comes out, there is sound; sound comes, as soon as sound has come out, the ear comes; *the controller of the ear comes..., so many things*-one after another, one after another, one after another. So the pushing is so perfect that all other things come automatically in perfect order. But foolish people, they are thinking that things are coming automatically out of it, without any background. They don't think there is God. They think that nature, there was a chunk, and the creation was there. And wherefrom the chunk came? That is imperfect observation. Perfect knowledge is you take Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ: [Bg. 9.10] "under My superintendence." And that is our practical experience. When I manufacture this table, the raw materials, matter, is there, but it has not automatically become table. I have made it by instrument, by my brain. Similarly, this cosmic manifestation has not come out automatically; *it is the brain of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is the creator. That is nature. Nature is instrumental. Just like the potter: his wheel is going around and the clay is making a pot, but the original cause is the potter. He has given force to the wheel. After the wheel is running, then so many pots are coming out. So nature... Foolish people are seeing that the wheel is moving. They do not see that behind the movement of the wheel there is a potter who has given force. So there is no question of nature. Everything is God, Kṛṣṇa. This is imperfect vision, that the wheel is moving without any direction. So this kind of knowledge is imperfect. Real knowledge is, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, you take it from Bhagavad-gītā that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My direction the material energy is working." So the wonderful working of the material nature is not perfect observation. Behind the wonderful work of the material nature there is Kṛṣṇa, God.



Śyāmasundara: He also believes that God is behind it, but he is trying to analyze. He says that there is no gaps or sudden changes, great changes in nature; that everything is gradual.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there is a process, there is a link of everything, one after another, one after another. That is nature's way. Just like in the creation, the first creation is mind. We have got it in the Bhagavad*-gītā, first creation is mahat-tattva, the sum total of material energy. Then there is interaction of the three guṇas, qualities, and then mind comes out, ego comes out, intelligence comes out, in this way, one after another. That is explained in the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, how creation takes place. So the Veda says, sa aikṣata. Sa aikṣata. The Supreme Lord, simply by glancing over... In Bhagavad-gītā also it is said that. But just like we impregnate a woman by sex behavior, but here it is said that He simply glanced over the material nature, total material energy, and the creation begins. Sa aikṣata. So because He is omnipotent, He can impregnate the material nature not by sex behavior but simply by glancing, and the material nature immediately becomes agitated, and things begin to happen. So the original cause is glancing over material nature by God. But we materialists, we cannot think how by simply glancing, the material nature is set into motion. That is material conception.



Śyāmasundara: He says that space and time are mere appearances, but the ultimate or genuine reality is different.



*Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa, sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], cause of all causes.



Śyāmasundara: He calls these ultimate entities monads. Monad means unity, or oneness. He says that the ultimate stuff out of which even the atoms are made are called monads, small particles.



*Prabhupāda: And within those small particles there is Kṛṣṇa. That small particle is not final. Aṇḍāntara*-stha paramāṇu... That is also superficial.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these monads are individual, conscious, alive and active, and they range in quality from the lowest type, or matter, through the higher of types, such as soul, to the highest, which is God.



Prabhupāda: So whether within the atom there is soul or not?



Śyāmasundara: His theory is that even the atoms are made out of these monads.



Prabhupāda: What is a monad?



Śyāmasundara: It's difficult to understand, but a monad means a tiny particle of force which is...



Prabhupāda: And we say that is Kṛṣṇa



Śyāmasundara: He says that it has activity, consciousness, etc. But each monad is individual, and its inherent qualities are produced from that monad.



*Prabhupāda: That monad, as we say, Kṛṣṇa, as we understand from Brahma*-saṁhitā, that Kṛṣṇa is within the atom also.



Śyāmasundara: He says that a monad is the force or activity which constitutes the essence of a substance.



*Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa is the substance, summum bonum. Aṇḍāntara*-stha paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He is within everything. That is His all-pervasive nature.



Śyāmasundara: Then how are the individualities accounted for?



Prabhupāda: Every individual soul is awarded a little portion of independence, because every individual soul is part and parcel of God, so he has got the quality of independence, in minute quantity. That is individuality.



Śyāmasundara: Just like, for instance, say, this particulate substance, he would say that there is a force or activity which constitutes the essence of this substance, and that is the monad of this substance. He is attributing it to everything, matter.



Prabhupāda: So we take the atom. Atom is the smallest. So we say within the atom the force is Kṛṣṇa. He is simply suggesting there is some enforcing power. We are giving directly that that is Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that in that enforcing power each atom is individual, separate, different.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa, by His omnipotency, can expand Himself in innumerable forms. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta, unlimited. As it is clearly said, aṇḍāntara-stham. He is within the atom.



Śyāmasundara: Is He between each atom as an individual entity, different from each other entity?



Prabhupāda: Yes. If Kṛṣṇa is there, Kṛṣṇa is individual. And atoms also, there are varieties of atoms. Sometimes they are combined together, six atoms, five atoms, three atoms.



Śyāmasundara: How is Kṛṣṇa different?



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is there in every atom.



Śyāmasundara: How is He individual in each one of the atoms?



Prabhupāda: Why not He is individual? Kṛṣṇa is individual. How is He not individual? Kṛṣṇa is always individual.



Śyāmasundara: He is a person.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is always person, Supreme Person. But He can expand innumerably.



*Śyāmasundara: And Paramātmā*-is Paramātmā a person?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramātmā is a person. Every expansion*-just like we are also expansion, atomic expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So we are persons. Every individual soul is a person. But we are expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Paramātmā is another expansion, viṣṇu-tattva. Rāmādi mūrtiṣu. That is another expansion, different kinds of expansions.



Śyāmasundara: Jīva ātmā is also a person?



Prabhupāda: Yes. If not person, then why the difference? You may not agree with my opinion, but if we agree voluntarily, not that exactly what I think you think, but because you have accepted me as your guru, as superior, therefore we agree. You are individual; you may not agree. You are individual and I am individual, Kṛṣṇa is individual. That is stated, nityo nityānām. Plural number. There are many individual souls, but He is the Supreme Individual Person.



Śyāmasundara: This idea of a monad means that...



*Prabhupāda: You call it by any name, but within the atom there is the force*-that is Kṛṣṇa. You call it monad or something else.



Śyāmasundara: He says the lowest type of monad is in matter, material forms, and then it proceeds up through higher monads, which are souls.



Prabhupāda: So we directly say (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa, that is (indistinct) spiritual.



Śyāmasundara: He says that each monad has an inner or mental activity, a spiritual life.



Prabhupāda: That is explained in everything, that as soon as we say there is Kṛṣṇa, so there is everything.



Śyāmasundara: So even between the atoms of matter there is a spiritual life, spiritual force?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That force means spiritual force.



Śyāmasundara: He says that all bodies are ultimate quantums of force, that the essential nature of all bodies is force.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Force is the spirit soul. Without the spirit soul, the body has no force. It is a dead body.



Śyāmasundara: But just as there is a dead body of a man lying there, still there is force going on in that body. There are worms coming out...



Prabhupāda: But that individual soul, force, is not perfect. As Kṛṣṇa is within the atom, the body is combination of so many atoms, so therefore the force for creating another living entity is there.



Śyāmasundara: So just the decomposing is a force, turning to gasses. So there is force in every body.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That individual soul's force is stopped. That we call dead body. But Kṛṣṇa's force is still there, because it is combination of atoms.



Śyāmasundara: He says that which is manifested to our senses, which occupy space and exists in time, is only an effect of the basic nature, which is transcendental to the physical nature. The physical nature is just an effect of a higher nature.



*Prabhupāda: Physical nature is a by*-product. Just like I explained that you create your body. The physical nature is subservient to the soul. Therefore, according to my desire, I get a body. I create a body.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that these monads, they create bodies.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That I say. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. At the time of death, as you are thinking, your next body is created. Therefore you create the body.



Śyāmasundara: But does the monad of a, say, a hydrogen molecule, does that also create its own body? Does it only accidentally become part of a water molecule, or does it...



Prabhupāda: Nothing is accidental.



Śyāmasundara: It also desires to become a water molecule? Does the atom of hydrogen desire to combine with oxygen and become a water molecule?



Prabhupāda: He... The ultimate desire is of Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: But does each atom, even of matter...



Prabhupāda: If you take it that way, Kṛṣṇa is within every atom. So Kṛṣṇa wants to be it; therefore He is willing to let these two things become one, and there is some creation, and again another creation, and another creation. The ultimate brain is Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Does the hydrogen molecule have an independent desire?



Prabhupāda: No, but within the hydrogen atom, there is Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is combining. Not this hydrogen atom as matter is combining, but because Kṛṣṇa is within that hydrogen atom existing. He knows that by combination this thing will come about, that will come out, that will come out...



Śyāmasundara: But the individual soul has a little independence to choose?



Prabhupāda: No, no.



Śyāmasundara: Has no independence?



*Prabhupāda: No. The individual soul does not. In Bhagavad*-gītā it says that anumantā, individual soul, wants to do something and Kṛṣṇa gives orders. Man proposes and God disposes.



Śyāmasundara: So we have no free will?



Prabhupāda: No. Without sanction of Kṛṣṇa we cannot do anything. Therefore He is the ultimate cause.



Śyāmasundara: But I thought you had been saying that we have a little independence.



Prabhupāda: That independence that Kṛṣṇa wants me to do something but I want to deny it. But unless Kṛṣṇa sanctions, you cannot do that also.



Śyāmasundara: What I'm trying to get at is that if we desire something and we take a body because of that desire, can a hydrogen molecule desire to become part of water and be given that body? Does it have the independence to desire something and take a body accordingly? The hydrogen molecule, does it have a life?



*Prabhupāda: So far as we get information, our knowledge is from the Vedic information, aṇḍāntara*-stha paramāṇu: Kṛṣṇa is within, the Paramātmā. It does not say the soul is within, the Paramātmā.



Śyāmasundara: It doesn't say that an individual soul is present within the atom?



Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa is present.



Śyāmasundara: So then this philosophy of Leibnitz is not correct.



Prabhupāda: No.



Śyāmasundara: Because he says in matter there is also this kind of individuality.



Prabhupāda: That individual is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa knows that so many atoms will be combined, then another thing will be formed. It is not the individual soul but Kṛṣṇa directly.



Śyāmasundara: But when you come to the living entities, then the individual soul is also there.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Within the body. Both of them*-Kṛṣṇa is also there, and the individual soul is also there.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the definition of substance is a being capable of action. Substance means to be capable of action, and that existence means action.



Prabhupāda: Substance is original. Other things are categories.



Śyāmasundara: So being capable of action, is that a good definition of substance?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Substance means the original cause, so He is completely able to act.



Śyāmasundara: He says to be is to be active.



Prabhupāda: Yes, to be means to be active. Without activity, what does it mean to be?



Śyāmasundara: He says that these monads change in their appearances because the inner desire impels it to pass from one phenomenal representation to another.



Prabhupāda: The monad does not change, but his mind has changed. But I do not know what this means, monads. He is complicating. He cannot express what is this monad.



Śyāmasundara: Monad is very vague. It means a small unit of oneness or unity, which is the substance behind everything else, even the atom.



Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent.



Śyāmasundara: He says, for instance, that a monad changes its appearance according to its desires.



Prabhupāda: That indication is for the soul. But Kṛṣṇa is not that. Kṛṣṇa is kuta; means he does not change.



Śyāmasundara: He says just like this thing, (holding up an object) it will change to another thing, to another thing, to another thing, depending on its desire, which impels it to change. He says that even behind some object there is some ability to change.



Prabhupāda: That I have already said. Just like Kṛṣṇa, first of all He created the whole total cosmic energy, and then, by His plan, by His devices, He divides into so many things, changes, parts and parts and parts. It can be taken in that way. The material changes are going on according to the will of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Is that clear?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that each monad is like all of the others. They are identical, so that to know one is to know all, to know the whole world.



Prabhupāda: This individual monads can be taken as soul?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. And he sees soul even in matter.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If Kṛṣṇa is there, there is Supersoul.



*Śyāmasundara: So he would say that each particle of Supersoul or each monad is self*-contained, that there is no loss of gain of force.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Eternal.



Śyāmasundara: He says that even though these monads are always active, they do not contact each other, neither do they affect each other. For example, if a bat hit a ball, in reality the bat did not really affect the ball.



Prabhupāda: But some individual soul has taken the bat, he has hit it, not the bat has hit it.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the bat and the ball are independent.



Prabhupāda: How they are independent? I am holding the bat. I am hitting the ball. So how can the bat is independent?



Śyāmasundara: That this is the function of the bat.



Prabhupāda: No. If I don't hit..., bat in my hand, the bat cannot hit the ball. How is the bat independent?



Śyāmasundara: Let's take another example. Say a rock falls from a cliff into the water and makes the water move. He would say that the rock's falling and the water's moving, that the monad involved in the rock and the monad involved in the water did not really affect each other, that the water parted and the rock went through the water, but that this was the inherent nature of the water and the inherent nature of the rock, so that they did not really affect each other.



Prabhupāda: But one thing is that when rocks were thrown on the sea by Lord Rāmacandra's will, they began to float. Therefore the Supreme Will is the ultimate cause. Supreme Will wants that the rock may go down in the water, then it goes; if He does not wants, then the rock floats. Therefore rock is not independent. The Supreme Will of God is independent. There are so many other examples. The same example as I cited the other day, that the cow eats the dry grass and it gives so nutritious, full of vitamins milk. But the same dry grass, if a woman eats, she will die. Therefore the plan of the Supreme that the cow, by eating dry grass, she can deliver nicely. It is not on the dry grass she is producing milk; it is the will of God that is producing it. Similarly the stone falling. Because the will of God is there, therefore "You stone, go down in the water!" But when God wills that it floats, it will float. So that in that case the monad theory did not act.



Śyāmasundara: He is saying that there is no such thing as cause and effect.



*Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. The supreme cause is God. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].



Śyāmasundara: Another example, he says that the body has no causal influence on the soul, neither does the soul affect or interact with the body.



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. The soul desires something, and to fulfill that desire he gets a certain type of body; therefore soul is the cause of manufacturing a type of body.



Śyāmasundara: He likens the soul and the body to two synchronized clocks, both going at the same speed but separate.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The soul is separate from the body, but the body is going or the body is being manifested on account of the soul's desire. Just like a young child desires how he will become a youth. He sees the youthful energy, gradually he develops or changes his body to a youthful body.



Śyāmasundara: Then is the body really affecting the soul? Does the body really have a causal influence on the soul?



Prabhupāda: No. The soul is unaffected by the body, but the body is helping the soul to fulfill its desires. Just as I am taking the help of this microphone to serve my purpose, but microphone is not influencing me. It is not that microphone is willing that I shall dictate. It is not like that.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the body has a monad and the soul has a monad. They are two different monads.



Prabhupāda: The body is a combination at atoms. If Kṛṣṇa is within the atoms, the monads of the atoms and the monad in the body are different.



Śyāmasundara: So that although the monad of the body is acting...



Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of monad?



Śyāmasundara: The only meaning I know is that it means unity or oneness. A small particle of unity or oneness.



*Prabhupāda: That is Supersoul. Supersoul, although it appears many, innumerable, it is one. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ [Iso 7]. That is Īśopaniṣad. Although we find there are many Supersouls, but there is one. Yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, "One who sees in Me everything, and sees everything in Me, he is really seeing." That is oneness. That means they have no clear idea, but trying to theorize something. Clear idea is in the Vedic literature.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that God creates the principle of pre*-established harmony. Just like He sets two clocks in motion, both synchronized. One is the body and one is the soul. Even though they are going together...



Prabhupāda: The body is separate, body separate from the soul. We say that.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the body is acting, but the soul is independent. It's not really affected by the body.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. We agree.



Śyāmasundara: So they are like two clocks going at the same synchronization, but not together. They are separate.



Prabhupāda: But why two clocks? What is the relationship between the body and the soul? You cannot analyze separately. The body and the soul, they are practically combined. That example is not complete. They are two individual clocks. They are not combined. So therefore there is fallacy of analogy. If there is no common point, you cannot have analogy.



Śyāmasundara: The common point is that they say the same time. They have the same time.



Prabhupāda: But the same time, gradually one clock goes slow and the other clock goes fast. This analogy is not perfect. Similar point. Analogy means there must be a majority of similar points. Similar point is lacking because the one clock is moving, you'll start the other one moving, and one may go slow or one may go at higher speed.



Śyāmasundara: I think it's like this, that the monad of the body desires a body like this, and the monad of the soul desires to inhabit a body like this. But they are separate entities, body and soul, and they work independently of each other.



Prabhupāda: It is not exactly the way it is. It says in the Vedic śāstras that the soul is the master of the body. Therefore how can you say that the body is working independently? This body, I am now liking to place my hand here, so I am desiring and the hand is there, not that all of a sudden my hand, by not desiring, it is coming...



Śyāmasundara: He would say the act of your desiring and the act of the hand coming are simultaneous but they are separate.



Prabhupāda: Jugglery of words. It has no meaning.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the example of the rock falling in the water. He would say that the water separating and the rock falling are two separate acts. Neither one affects the other.



*Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. This argument is called in Sanskrit kaka*-tal-nyāya. There was a tal tree, and one crow came, and immediately the fruit fell down. And there were two arguers: one said that the crow sat down on the fruit and it was so light it fell down, and the other said no, the crow was trying to sit down on the fruit but in the meantime the fruit fell and he could not sit. It is like that. It may be coincidence, the crow was just trying to sit on the fruit and the fruit fell. But these people's answer is no, the crow first sat down, then is was fallen. Another says no, the fruit has fallen down; *therefore the crow could not sit. So this kind of argument has no value. According (indistinct), the water separated and the stone fell*-they are nonsensical. Our argument is strong: that if Kṛṣṇa desires, the stone can float on the water, despite the law of gravitation. The law of gravitation is not working. So many huge planets are floating. How they are floating? The law of gravitation is working here. The stone falls down and (indistinct) goes down in the water. But that is one of the ingredients of the planet. But the planet itself is floating in the air. Where is the law of gravitation? Therefore Kṛṣṇa's desire. The cause is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Kṛṣṇa wanted, "Let it be floating." Or He has made some arrangement. By law of gravitation every planet should have gone down, and there is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and broke His head, because he is lying down in the Garbhodakaśāyī... So all the planets fall on Him and He is dead. But no. By His order they are all floated. That is Kṛṣṇa. Is that all right? Or still more?



Śyāmasundara: There's another page. This whole idea is so vague, that the water parting and the rock falling are individual.



Prabhupāda: It is childish.



Śyāmasundara: He says that each monad is given a characteristic nature by the central monad, who is God.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then why don't you take to the central monad?



Śyāmasundara: He says that God is the supreme monad, or pure activity.



Prabhupāda: I was speaking like that. If God desires, then the other monads have no independence. The same example as I told you: the stone is falling down in the water, and the monads of the water giving way. It is falling down, but if God desires, the water will not give way, it will float. If God is the ultimate monad, that is possible. Therefore there is no reason for disbelieving that when Rāmacandra threw so many stones on the water of the sea, it began to float. You cannot disbelieve. If Rāmacandra is God and He is the ultimate cause, He can check. Whatever He wills will come into effect.



Śyāmasundara: But the point of whether the monad of the rock causes the monads of the water to part.



*Prabhupāda: These causes can be changed*-by God's will.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, I understand that, but if the monad of the rock causes the monads of the water to part, or whether the monads of the water part independently...?



Prabhupāda: That is all dependent on God's will.



Śyāmasundara: That's a moot question.



Prabhupāda: Therefore ultimate desire is God's.



*Śyāmasundara: Just like the bird*-whether the bird caused the fruit to fall, or whether the fruit happened to fall coincidentally. It doesn't matter. Is that the point?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is simply useless talk. Because it is a fact that the fruit has fallen, and the crow has flown away. Now why should we bother? A waste of time. But both can be possible. These argument*-one is saying that the bird sat down, which is the cause of falling of the fruit, and the other says the falling down is the cause of the bird's not being able to sit on it-both can be possible. But we say therefore the ultimate desire is of God. If God desired that the fruit would not fall, it would not have fallen. That is our proposition.



Śyāmasundara: I think you said once that the devotee picks up the fruit and offers it to Kṛṣṇa and eats it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't see the cause and effect; we see that ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa. "By Kṛṣṇa's desire we have got this nice thing. Offer it to Kṛṣṇa and eat it," that's all.



Śyāmasundara: So whether the water's parting allowed the rock to fall in, or whether the rock caused the water to part, it doesn't really matter.



Prabhupāda: It is ultimately depending on God's will. That is the explanation.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these monads are spiritual in nature; therefore they are immortal.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we admit, because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's will, both of them are spiritual.



Śyāmasundara: So even the particle of matter is eternal?



*Prabhupāda: Ultimately everything is spiritual, because the matter is Kṛṣṇa's energy and spirit is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. If Kṛṣṇa is the original cause, therefore the matter can be changed into spirit, spirit can be changed into matter. Just as it is the same electric energy acting as heater and as cooler, but the electrician, he can change the cooler to heater and the heater to cooler, because the original cause is electricity. Similarly, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa can change matter into spirit, spirit into matter. That is in His power. The rascals and fools, when Kṛṣṇa appears in His own body, ātmamāyā, they think it is just like material body, but they do not know that to Kṛṣṇa there is no such distinction of material and spiritual. Even accepting that He had got a material body, there is no hampering*-He has changed into spiritual body. Otherwise how is it possible, Kṛṣṇa, He has got material body, now He was seven-years' boy, Kṛṣṇa is lifting the whole Govardhana Hill? And as much as Kṛṣṇa desires, "Let this big planet sun float in the air," so is it difficult for Him to lift the whole hill? There is no difficulty at all. That is omnipotency. And those who cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11], deride Him, "He is a man, therefore these are all stories," they have no idea of Kṛṣṇa. But we don't take Him as ordinary human being. Therefore He can change anything into anything, matter into spirit, spirit into matter, as He likes. That is His omnipotency. Otherwise what is the meaning of omnipotency?



Śyāmasundara: Because He is the central monad which controls all monads...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything. So taking the theory, the central monad and the other monad, the central monad is the cause of it. But he does not believe in the cause.



Śyāmasundara: No. He believes that God is the cause, the designer of everything.



Prabhupāda: Then why does he say there is no cause?



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is no cause and effect relationship between monads.



Prabhupāda: That is not clear. Once he says there is no cause. There is cause. There is no other cause than God. That is definite. The real cause is God.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that when the bird landed, the fruit coincidentally fell. There is no cause between the bird and the fruit falling.



Prabhupāda: No. We say if Kṛṣṇa desired, it would not have fallen. Kṛṣṇa desired it. Kṛṣṇa desires "Let it fall down"; therefore it falls. That is the cause. Kṛṣṇa desires that "Let the fruit fall down and the crow fly away."



Śyāmasundara: He says that God is absolute necessity because He is governed by the law of contradiction, and it is impossible to conceive of not God.



Prabhupāda: To God there is no contradiction. That is absolute. Whatever He does, whatever He says, that is absolute. There is no contradiction.



*Śyāmasundara: Because it is impossible to conceive of not God. In other words, God is absolutely necessary because to conceive not*-God is impossible.



Prabhupāda: That is artificial. The atheists say there is no God, so God is there, but he refuses to accept. Otherwise why does he say there is no God? The idea of God is there, but he refuses to accept. And unless God is there, wherefrom the idea is coming? The atheist... God is there, but he is refusing to accept. Just like the impersonalist: unless you have got personal understanding, how will you try to make it impersonal? The first is personal. You try to make it impersonal.



Śyāmasundara: Otherwise where does the impersonal idea come from?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is out of frustration. We see so many things, personal, varieties, but they are not giving us satisfaction; therefore we are thinking in a negative way, impersonal. But the person is first.



Śyāmasundara: He says that men, because they are...



Prabhupāda: The atheist demons are like that. If he exists to accept God, then he cannot work irresponsibly. To facilitate his sinful activities he is denying that there is a God.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that God is an absolute necessity because we cannot conceive not*-God. But man, individual men, are relative truths because they are not absolutely necessary. Because I can conceive that I am not here, that I may die. So he says that we are conditioned, that men are conditioned. They are governed by the principle of sufficient (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: That we can see. There are so many politicians, they are very busy. They think that "If I do not remain in the state, everything will collapse." But when he dies, everything goes on nicely without him. That is māyā. So many politicians work so hard, up to the last point of his death he is thinking that "Without me, everything will be topsy turvy." But he dies in spite of his not willing to die. He dies, but things go on without depending on him. Therefore God's will is working, the Supreme Will. You may think so many ways*-that is a different thing. Actually God's will is working.



Śyāmasundara: He says that men are all dependent upon another being for their existence. They are contingent.



*Prabhupāda: They are dependent... (break*-continues next day)



Śyāmasundara: He says that the world could have been otherwise if God desired, but that He chose this particular arrangement, and from the standpoint of its ingredients, this is the best possible world.



Prabhupāda: Yes. God can do anything He likes, but this world is planned not by God; it is given to the living entities who wanted to imitate God. So actually, the plan is according to the desire of the living entities who wanted to lord it over the material nature. God's plan is not this. It is exactly like the prison house is planned by the government because there are criminals. God's plan is "Come back home, giving everything up." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar iti mām eti. His plan is to invite all the conditioned souls back to home, back to Godhead. He doesn't like the living entities to live here. But because they wanted to lord it over the material nature, they have been given that facility.



Śyāmasundara: So from the standpoint of the ingredients of this world, material ingredients, is this the best possible world with those ingredients?



Prabhupāda: No. The spiritual world. There are spiritual ingredients.



Śyāmasundara: I mean this world, just this earth planet. Given the ingredients of the earth planet...



Prabhupāda: This planet is not a very good planet. There are many other planets thousands of times better. The more you go higher planetary systems, the comforts and amenities are a thousand times better, one after another. The next planetary system is a thousand times better than this planetary system, and the next planetary system a thousand times better than that. Similarly, the standard of life, duration of life, they are bigger. Therefore at the end, Brahmaloka, it is stated that twelve hours of the day of Brahmā is incalculable by us. Immediately in the higher planets, suppose if one goes to the moon planet, he gets immediately ten thousand years duration of life, and their year, our six months is equal to their one day. Such years. So there are better, more comfortable situations than here in the higher planetary systems.



Śyāmasundara: Leibnitz, his point of view is that he accepts the conditions of this material world as being all right. They are the best we can hope for, the best of a bad bargain.



*Prabhupāda: But Bhagavad*-gītā says that it is the place for miseries only. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is a place simply for suffering, and that also we cannot stay for a long time. Even if you agree to stay in this uncomfortable situation of life, still you will not be allowed; you have to change this place, change this body, that may go higher or lower. Therefore this life, the material life, is on the whole miserable. There is no question of any happiness.



Śyāmasundara: He says that because God has freedom of will, God decided it would be best to give man such freedom of will.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because every living entity is part and parcel of God, although very minute portion, similarly proportionately, he has minute proportion of freedom of will. Not absolute. That is natural. Every man has got a little freedom of will, but it is not absolute. A man cannot will as he likes. That is not possible. Therefore it is said, "Man proposes; God disposes." Although the freedom of will is there, it is subordinate to the freedom of will of God. You cannot fulfill your desire unless it is sanctioned and approved by God.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the fact that there is more good than evil in this world justifies its creation.



Prabhupāda: Well, good and evil is according to his angle of vision. A devotee sees in this material world everything is good. Viśva pūrṇaṁ sukhaya. People are complaining they are in distressed condition, but a devotee sees that there is no distressed condition, that it is all happy condition, because he lives with Kṛṣṇa, he dovetails everything with Kṛṣṇa, he dovetails himself also with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore for him there is no misery.



Śyāmasundara: He says that if it would not have been worth creating, that God would not have created the world. The fact that He created it makes it worth creating.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the *Vedas*: pūrṇam idam [*Īśopaniṣad*, Invocation]. The creator is complete, and the creation is also complete. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. Nothing can come out incomplete which is created by the complete. So in that sense, everything wanted in this world, the arrangement is there, complete.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that although some schools of philosophy, especially in Britain, said that the mind is a blank slate at the time of birth, Leibnitz defended the fact that there are necessary truths which are implanted in the mind before birth. These are innate truths, like mathematical truths. There are certain necessary truths that a person is born with, that he can understand, being implanted in his mind, just like mathematical proofs, "Two plus two is equal to four"*-that is a necessary truth with which a person is born.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That truth is devotion. Everyone wants to be devoted to somebody else. And because such devotion is misplaced, he becomes unhappy. When that devotional spirit will be rendered to the Supreme Person, then he will be happy. But the devotional spirit is there.



Śyāmasundara: Everyone is born with this?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this child, he was asked to obey, immediately he offered obeisances. So this is devotion. Every politician, everyone has got some followers. That means the devotional spirit is there. Even a rogue, dacoit, plunderer, he has got also some follower, and one could not follow others without devotional spirit. Is it not? Therefore this devotional spirit is innate in everything. That is truth.



Śyāmasundara: Is this the only necessary truth that one is born with, or are there others?



Prabhupāda: This is the prime truth. The method of devotional service and other ideas, they are included, but the basic principle is devotional service.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, Leibnitz says that concepts of mathematics are necessary truths, like "Two plus two is equal to four." Someone is born with that knowledge.



*Prabhupāda: So this is also mathematical truth. Because even the aborigines, they also offer obeisances to thunderbolt. As soon as there is some sound of thunderbolt, or as soon as there is earthquake, they offer obeisances*-any big natural phenomena. That means the devotion is there, but that devotional service is misplaces so long as one does not reach God.



Śyāmasundara: Leibnitz states that there is nothing in the intellect which was not previously in the senses except the intellect itself. In other words, all of our knowledge comes through our senses except the fact...



Prabhupāda: And it is banked in the intellect. That is a fact. That is permanent. Therefore even if we change our body, still we can find out our means of living by that inherent intellect. That is advertised as intuition. But this intuition is previous experience only. (end)





HUME.SYA



David Hume



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing philosopher David Hume. He is probably the most famous of the British philosophers. He was very skeptical about achieving certain knowledge, so he came to the conclusion that the only knowledge we can possess is a mere sequence of ideas, none of which can be proved to be true. In other words, we can only derive any knowledge from our senses, but even that knowledge is mere assumption.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We say also, because our senses are imperfect, so there is no possibility of achieving perfect knowledge by sense exercise. It is not possible. That is our philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: He says there is no other source of knowledge except the senses.



*Prabhupāda: No. We don't agree. Therefore it is called avāṅ*-manasā gocaraḥ, adhokṣaja-there are so many names. The senses are imperfect. They cannot reach. Just like we cannot know what is there in the sun, but a geologist or astronomer, he can say, one who has studied. Therefore our process of knowledge is to take from the authorities. That is perfect. Our senses cannot read, that is a fact. But it is not that without senses, no knowledge can be... No. We receive by senses, but from superior authority, one who knows. That is perfect knowledge. According to him, there is no possibility of having perfect knowledge?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is a skeptic.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that all that we are, all that we know, is merely ideas, a sequence of ideas.



Prabhupāda: But behind the ideas there must be some fact; otherwise how we get the ideas?



Śyāmasundara: He separates fact from idea. For instance, I may think this table is red, but it is actually brown. So my idea is incorrect.



*Prabhupāda: Your idea may be, but actually it has got a color, either red or yellow. So if you have eye disease, you cannot see actually, but one whose eyes are not diseased, he can see whether it is yellow or red. Just like sometimes glaucoma*-you see the moon as two moons, but actually there is one moon. But due to your eye disease you see two moons. But one who is not diseased, he sees one moon. Therefore we have to take knowledge from a person who is not diseased. Not that because my eyes are diseased, I cannot see things right way, I shall say, "Oh, there is no possibility of having right knowledge." That is not correct.



Śyāmasundara: In fact, he calls the soul a bundle of perceptions, that it is nothing but a set or sequence of ideas.



Prabhupāda: But as soon as he says "ideas," there must be some concrete things.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He admits that the external world is full of concrete things, but he thinks that we are also one of those things because we are only a bundle of perceptions. Our consciousness is only made up of our observations of material nature.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So far direct perception is concerned, it is like that. But indirect perception, taken from authorities, that is different.



Śyāmasundara: He distrusts any kind of authority and says that the only kind of things that we can know for sure are mathematical proofs and immediate sense perceptions. Like we can perceive that there is time and there is space, like that. That is the only knowledge he will admit.



Prabhupāda: And beyond the time and space?



Śyāmasundara: We can't know anything.



Prabhupāda: You cannot, but there is a process. You cannot know; *that does not mean beyond the mind is relative time and perception. Just like a small insect, he takes birth in the evening, and from evening to morning, his birth, his marriage, his begetting children, everything is done, and in the morning he dies. There are many insects. They are called diwali pokali. At night they will throng together, in India. So for this insect, it is very difficult to understand that there is another animal which is called man, who has got this duration of his lifetime period in only twelve hours of his life. But the insect cannot go beyond that. Just like when we hear from Bhagavad*-gītā that Brahmā lives such-and-such, we disbelieve sometimes. But everything is relative. With your relative body, your duration of life, your knowledge, your perception, everything is relative. So you are teeny human being. What is impossible for you is not impossible for others. He is talking from the relative platform.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He believes there is only relativity. He doesn't think there's anything absolute.



Prabhupāda: Relativity... He does not believe that there are other things. But as soon as one says relative, the opposite word is absolute; otherwise wherefrom we take this word relative?



Śyāmasundara: Well, his idea is that things only exist in relation with each other.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then what is the supreme relative?



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't admit any supreme.



Prabhupāda: His knowledge is imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says just like a cherry, say a fruit...



Prabhupāda: In logic there is relative study, and at the end of all relative truth there is absolute truth, the summum bonum. So he has no idea of the summum bonum, or the substance.



Śyāmasundara: No. He denies any substance. He says just like a cherry or a fruit, it has certain sensory qualities such as sweetness, color, like that. He says that we are just like that, humans. We have certain "sensory qualities." We are made up of a series of mental activities or a complex of ideas, but this is all we are.



Prabhupāda: No. We have got senses also. The color is only, what is called, sensory qualities. It is a quality, but to appreciate that quality, we have the senses. An inert object, it has got the quality, but living entity, it has the senses to appreciate the quality.



Śyāmasundara: But he says these senses are only a bundle of perceptions, of ideas.



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the living entity is superior to the inert matter. In Sanskrit language they are called tan mātrā. They are created for the sense; they are sense objects. I have got senses, I must appreciate something. That something is that quality or sensory quality. I have eyes, I must see something. So therefore there is color, there is beauty...



Śyāmasundara: He postulates three laws whereby perceptions are associated or connected with one another. He says first of all, there is the principle of resemblance. For example, I see a picture and it impels me to think of the original of that picture. The second principle is the principle of contiguity. If I mention a room in a building, this impels me to think of other rooms in other buildings. And the third principle is the principle of cause and effect, just like if I think about a wound I automatically think of pain. So in these three ways he thinks that our whole being is made up of this stream of ideas, association of ideas, one idea follows another, perpetually.



Prabhupāda: That is called relative world. That is the meaning of relative world. You cannot understand what is father without a son; you cannot understand son without a father. You cannot understand husband without a wife. This world is like that. It is called relative world.



*Śyāmasundara: He thinks that is what our being is*-it is simply ideas. From our birth to our death we simply are made up of a bundle of perceptions and ideas. Simply that, nothing more.



Prabhupāda: Beyond this idea?



Śyāmasundara: He denies the existence of any ultimate reality. Only the phenomena of senses.



Prabhupāda: So wherefrom do these phenomena come, unless there is noumena?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that it is possible that all this existed since eternity and there was no cause. It's possible that there is no cause, that it's just existing.



*Prabhupāda: What about the manifestation*-past, present and future?



Śyāmasundara: He says that this may be an eternal existence of things, but there may not be any cause.



Prabhupāda: Then why death takes place, if there is no cause?



Śyāmasundara: It's just like any machine which is born and dies.



Prabhupāda: When you say machine, machine is made by somebody. You cannot compare it to a machine. A machine is created by somebody. There is beginning of the machine.



Śyāmasundara: Or just like the seasons, they come and go.



Prabhupāda: Yes. They again come. So what is this?



Śyāmasundara: This may be an eternally existing fact which has no cause or no creator. This is his idea.



Prabhupāda: There is no creator?



Śyāmasundara: No creator. He says, however, that if we prefer, we can say that there is a creator, if we like to. In other words, he bases everything on this idea that you can do what you like to do.



*Prabhupāda: So that he can go on talking whatever he likes. (laughter) All nonsense. All he wants that license: you can go on talking all nonsense, I can go on talking all nonsense. You are right, I am right, everything is all right. Yata mata tata patha. Yata mata*-as many opinions there are, so many (indistinct) are there also. So it does not apply in legal sense. Just like the same example that I give always, "Keep to the right." Then if somebody says, "My opinion is, 'Keep to the left,' " but as soon as he does it, he is arrested.



*Śyāmasundara: We'll discuss that in a minute or two. But he divided human understanding into two classes. The first class is the relationship among ideas, just as mathematical compositions, they are true and certain, whether or not the things they refer to exist in nature. Just like two plus two equals four. This is a relationship among ideas. And the second*-relationship among facts. He says that these cannot be proved by reasoning. They are merely assumed on the basis of sense experience. For example, that sun will rise tomorrow. This is a relationship among facts. But it is merely an assumption based upon our sense experience, but it's possible to imagine that the world will end or the sun may not rise. So it's only an assumption that the sun will rise. So this world of facts that we see, we can only assume that they will act in certain ways. There is probability, but there is no certainty.



Prabhupāda: That is already discussed: why it is so, probability, who takes it, who makes it not possible, how it happens. Sun is rising, and sun may not rise, stop. How it is? Accidentally or by somebody's will?



Śyāmasundara: He would say that it's accidental.



*Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Nothing is accidental. Everything is symmetrical. Therefore, we have to admit that supreme direction, and that is Kṛṣṇa, as stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: "Under My direction everything is going on." The sun is rising on His direction, and when He orders, the sun will not rise. But it is not accidental.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that there is no such thing as a cause*-and-effect relationship. Just like, for example, we associate friction with heat, but he says that it's a mistake to assume that friction causes heat or possesses any power which must inevitably produce heat. He says that it is a mere repetition of two incidents, so that the effect habitually attends the cause, but it is not necessarily a consequence of it. So the fact that I rub my hands together and there is heat produced, I am used to assuming that the friction causes heat, but he says that it is not necessarily so. Whenever there is friction, there is heat, but that is only because they are associated with each other, not that one causes the other.



Prabhupāda: Then how are they associated?



Śyāmasundara: That one habitually attends the other, but not necessarily as a consequence of it.



Prabhupāda: But who made this law? As soon as they associate, immediately after friction there is heat. So there is a systematic law. The association may be accidental, but as soon as there is friction between the two associates, the law is there must be heat. So there is systematic law. Either you rub the hands, or I rub the hands, the law is that heat must be there, either in your hands or in my hands. That is law.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that this law is not ultimate reality, that it is a mere probability.



*Prabhupāda: But it is a physical law. And he says that the sequence of the law may be different. So that is possible also, because law means made by some person, somebody. So if he likes, he can change the law, just like if the legislature assembles and some law is passed today, next day or next month or next year this law is nullified. So that supreme legislative council is responsible for this law*-making. Similarly, there is a supreme will who makes this law and who can nullify this law. So we have to come to the supreme will. You cannot change or you cannot make any new law. If you think that by friction of hands there may not be any heat-producing effect, that you cannot do. Therefore you are also under the supreme will. He has given you a chance to talk all nonsense, but he can stop immediately. Your tongue and you will be a dead body, is it not? He is talking all nonsense, but if the supreme will desires, he'll stop immediately his tongue moving, and he'll be considered a dead body, all philosophy finished. But he cannot stop it. Therefore the supreme will is the ultimate cause of all causes.



Śyāmasundara: He says that morality consists of values which the individual formulates for himself, as a matter of personal opinion. In other words, I can do whatever my conscience dictates.



Prabhupāda: So another man can also say "what my conscience dictates." So there is a difference.



Śyāmasundara: But in society, moral values are based upon the opinion of the whole society. In other words, my moral values are relative to public opinion.



Prabhupāda: When the majority opinion is something, you have to accept it. That is democracy.



Śyāmasundara: But still he says it's up to the individual whether to accept or reject it. This is where you were talking about the left side of the road and the right side of the road, that even though the law is there as agreed upon by society, still it's up to me whether I want to follow it or not. It's matter of my personal opinion.



Prabhupāda: If you don't follow, then you'll be punished. That will be the effect. You'll be punished. Therefore, the conclusion is that your independent thinking is not absolute; it is also relative.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that logic or reason don't determine morality, but sentiment determines morality*-how I feel, that's how I should act.



Prabhupāda: Or in other words, what is accepted by the supreme will, that is morality. You cannot decide what is morality. The supreme will decides whether it is morality or immorality.



Śyāmasundara: According to Hume, it's my sentiment that decides. How I feel at the moment, that's how I should act. It's my personal opinion.



Prabhupāda: But your personal opinion sometimes does not meet with approval. So if you are satisfied with your personal opinion, but if it is not approved by others, then you are in the fool's paradise. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that the remedy for this is social, that we should try to change the laws of the state or change the opinion of the state to accept a certain type of morality. If I think something is right and the state says it is wrong, then I should act through politics to change it.



*Prabhupāda: He agrees to surrender to the supreme*-state-so if the supreme state sanctions, it is morality. Is it not that?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Public opinion.



Prabhupāda: But anyway, it goes to somebody, public opinion, but this public opinion is not final. Therefore above the public opinion there is the supreme will of Kṛṣṇa. That should be the final, to sanction morality or immorality.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the moral sentiments which are approved by society enhance the social good, whereas immoral attitudes are egoistic and antisocial. So that a society will always approve of a certain set of moral values, and then the individual living in the society must either accept or reject them. And if he rejects them, then he must act through politics, through the social body, to try to change their attitude, their opinion.



Prabhupāda: Therefore it depends on that social body, which is authority. So ultimately we have to depend on the authority for all sanctions. So our proposition is that the supreme authority is Kṛṣṇa. So whatever He sanctions, that is morality; *whatever He does not sanction, that is immorality. Just like Arjuna was thinking to become nonviolent, not to fight, is good. But Kṛṣṇa said, "Now you fight." So fight became good. So ultimately it depends on Kṛṣṇa's will, what is morality, what is immorality, what is good, what is bad. Therefore our duty is, instead of depending on social body or political... [break] ...are so many, one is different from the other*-we depend on the supreme will of the supreme authority.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is no absolute morality, that everything is relative.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We say also. If it is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa, then it is morality; otherwise the same morality may be immorality. Just like Yudhiṣṭhira was asked by Kṛṣṇa to speak lie-"Go to Droṇācārya and inform him that 'Your son is dead,' " because Droṇācārya had a benediction that unless he was shocked by the dead limbs of his son, he would not die. So he had to be shocked. But he would not believe anybody except King Yudhiṣṭhira because he was known as very honest and truthful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa employed this service that "You go." Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, he said, "Oh, how can I tell a lie?" So this is immorality. Kṛṣṇa is ordering, and he is saying that "How can I say lie?" This is immorality; *he is disobeying the order of Kṛṣṇa. But Arjuna, he rejected all morality and immorality. He accepted Kṛṣṇa's order. That is morality. He was personally thinking that "If I kill my brothers, cousins, this, that," so many things, but because he was a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, when he understood "Kṛṣṇa wants it," he said, "Yes." This is morality. That is the fact. When your actions are approved by the supreme authority, that is morality. If it is not approved by the supreme authority, that is immorality. Therefore so*-called morality-immorality has no fixed position. When it is approved by Kṛṣṇa, it is morality. Even so-called immorality will be morality, and so-called morality will be immorality. That we practically see, the same example as I gave you, that a soldier killing so many human beings, he is awarded, and it is... [break] ...he does what he likes, then it becomes chaos.



Śyāmasundara: That's what has happened.



Prabhupāda: There must be some authority.



Śyāmasundara: He says the only authority is public opinion, and it changes.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Still it is authority. Public opinion, he says, or without public opinion, the king or royalty. There must be some authority to guide them. Otherwise there will be chaos.



Śyāmasundara: As far as his philosophy of religion, he rejected the idea of absolute matter and the concept of a soul as substance. He rejected the utility of scientific laws, and he rejected moral principles as objective realities. He says all religious ideas are relative. There is no certainty and anything religious may be merely probable but never certain.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That also he says. Therefore religion means love of God. The means may be different in different processes of religion, but ultimately if one develops love of Godhead, that is the prima facie factor, love of God. So if any religious principle love of God is absent, that is simply show, it is not factual religion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that even the idea of God is merely probable but not certain.



Prabhupāda: That he cannot say. As soon as he speaks of authority, there must be a supreme authority. That is God.



Śyāmasundara: For him, the authority is the senses. His authority is the senses.



Prabhupāda: Then why does he say public opinion? Your senses may not be approved by the public opinion. Then where do your senses stand?



Śyāmasundara: That's as far as morality goes, public opinion. But for my understanding of God, I can only rely upon my own senses.



Prabhupāda: Morality, morality means what is sanctioned by... [break]



Śyāmasundara: ...imperfection or finiteness.



Prabhupāda: God is absolute. For Him there is no evil. Absolute good. Otherwise He cannot be absolute. So what you think evil, to God it is good. Just like a father slaps a child and he cries. For the child it is evil, but for the father it is good. Father thinks, "I have done right. He is crying. He will not commit the mistake again." So this chastisement is just like sometimes Aravinda complains he thinks "I was unnecessarily chastised," but I say it is good. (laughter) The same thing. So whose opinion is to be taken?



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that God is limited.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. If God is limited, then He cannot be God.



Śyāmasundara: He says either God is limited in His goodness, in order to allow evil to exist...



Prabhupāda: No. He is unlimitedly good.



Śyāmasundara: Then He must be limited in His power, because He cannot stop evil from existing.



*Prabhupāda: No. Evil works under His guidance. Good and evil, both are control] by Him. Therefore He is called supreme controller. He is not limited. The exact word used in Sanskrit is called ananta, unlimited. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta*-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta. Advaita, non-dual; acyuta, infallible; and ananta, unlimited. (end)





KANT.SYA



Immanuel Kant



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing Immanuel Kant. Basically, his philosophy seeks to trace the relationship between a priori ideas, or those ideas of the mind which are independent of sense experience, and the a posteriori ideas, or sense impressions. He wants to unify these two positions. So he wrote The Critique of Pure Reason, in which he asks the fundamental question, "How are a priori synthetic judgments possible?" In other words, how can we decide anything, judge anything? Where does this facility come from? What is the source of knowledge?



Prabhupāda: Intelligence. The source of knowledge is intelligence. Intelligence acts through mind, and then some conclusion comes. Man is mortal, so here is a man, intelligence; he must be mortal. This a priori idea means "I know man is mortal; therefore here is a man, he must be mortal." A priori means before. And what is the other?



Śyāmasundara: A posteriori means after; sense impressions. So he developed this process for attaining knowledge in three steps. The first step he calls he transcendental aesthetic, and this is the basic stage which synthesizes sense experience through concepts of time and space. In other words, the mind acts upon sensory perceptions and applies time and space relations to them. So he says that this knowing of time and space is a priori; it's an internal creation of the mind. Before we sense anything, we have an idea of time and space. So as soon as we sense something, we can apply time and space ideas.



Prabhupāda: He said something transcendental?



Śyāmasundara: He calls it the transcendental aesthetic.



Prabhupāda: Transcendental means it is not in my experience, but I get the experience from higher authority, paramparā.



Śyāmasundara: I think his definition of transcendental is slightly different.



Prabhupāda: Transcendental means beyond your sense experience. That is the real meaning. You can see the dictionary. Transcendental is that which transcends.



Śyāmasundara: "Transcendental: of an a priori character, not based on experience; intuitively accepted; innate in the mind; superrational; supernatural; consisting of or dealing in or inspired by abstractions.' The way he is using "transcendental" is simply he is trying to understand knowledge through abstraction, by abstracting.



*Prabhupāda: Transcendental knowledge means knowledge received from a source which is beyond the reach of my material senses. That is transcendental. Just like we are reading Bhagavad*-gītā. So we have no knowledge that there is a spiritual world, but Kṛṣṇa says that there is another nature, a spiritual nature, beyond this material nature. So we understand through the source of transcendental knowledge. We cannot experience. That is explained, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. God, His name, His qualities, His pastimes-nothing can be understood by these material senses. But if you engage yourself in service, they become revealed. That will become confirmed: "Yes, there is Vaikuṇṭha, there is Vṛndāvana, where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are going on, and I am perceiving myself." These things become revealed gradually, not abruptly you can understand. Therefore common men cannot understand that they say " 'Going back to home, back to Godhead?' What nonsense they are saying?" They cannot understand, because it is transcendental, beyond the reach of these gross senses. But it is revealed: sevonmukhe. If you become submissive, if you engage yourself in the service of the Lord, guru-Kṛṣṇa, and the spiritual master, then these things become revealed. Now one who has got the knowledge by revelation, nobody can mislead him. Just like we believe in the transcendental abode, cintāmaṇi, Goloka Vṛndāvana. If somebody pays out millions of dollars and asks you to forget all these things, we cannot do that. If you give him hundreds and thousands of dollars, that "You believe in this," no, he will not believe. That is transcendental knowledge. So transcendental knowledge is not speculation. It is receiving from higher authority and gradually, by your service attitude, things become clear to you. That is transcendental.



Śyāmasundara: Before, we were discussing Descartes and Hume. Descartes expressed that all knowledge comes through innate ideas, and Hume said just the opposite: "No. All knowledge comes from sense experience." So Kant is trying to unify the two ideas.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense experience. Sense experience means purified sense experience. That is seva. Just like I am seeing here Kṛṣṇa, but others will see a stone. So he is also seeing with his eyes; *I am also seeing with the eyes, but my eyes are different from his eyes. Premāñjana*-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. When the eyes are anointed with love of God, ointment of love of God, then he can see. Just like if one's eyes are diseased, if he applies some eye ointment, or lotion, then he sees. So the same senses, the same eyes, unless they are treated and purified, he cannot understand or he cannot see or he cannot know.



Śyāmasundara: He says that thoughts without content are empty, meaning that the mind must have senses in order to fill its thoughts with content; and perceptions without exceptions are blind. In other words, sense impressions without thought are blind.



Prabhupāda: That thought comes from transcendental knowledge. Thought comes from higher authorities. That is called parokṣa. Then with your senses, when you try to understand, that is called aparokṣa. Then adhokṣaja. As I told you, there are five stages of acquiring knowledge: direct perception, pratyakṣa; parokṣa, receiving knowledge from higher authorities; then apply your senses, come to some conclusion, that is aparokṣa; then transcendental knowledge, adhokṣaja; then aprakṛta, spiritual knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: In other words, the thought content comes from higher authorities, then you apply your senses and the two combine.



Prabhupāda: To come to some conclusion. That is the source of knowledge which is beyond my senses.



Śyāmasundara: But I use my senses to come to some conclusion.



Prabhupāda: Just like a higher authority says that there is a spiritual world. Now, how do you come to this conclusion, "Yes, there is a spiritual world"? How, unless you apply your senses? Sense application is like this, that "I am combination of spirit and matter, that is a fact. So I cannot see the spirit at the present moment, but there is spirit. So I am a combination of spirit and matter. So if there is material world, why is there no spiritual world?" This is conclusion: by applying your senses and reason that there are two things, material and spiritual, so if there is possibility of material world, why is there not possibility of spiritual world?



Śyāmasundara: And if I see a dead body, I can understand that there is no life in that body, so there must be some source of life.



*Prabhupāda: That is preliminary knowledge, that something is missing. Something is missing. Now there are arguments, so many things, but something, that we understand from higher authority, that this something is eternal. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam, that consciousness is spread all over my body, and He says that is avināśi, eternal. Consciousness is spiritual. So then you can judge how it is eternal. Now eternal, the same way that I am existing, I exist, I existed in a childhood body, boyhood body, so my consciousness is continuing. Consciousness is going on with my existence. I am existing. Despite different changes of body, I am existing. Therefore consciousness exists. This kind of, you have to apply your senses. But the basic principle of the knowledge is received from higher authorities. Just like in mathematics, teacher says two plus two is equal to four. So you take four things, make two and two, and you find four. Similarly, by applying your senses, reason-God has given you reason, consciousness*-you can come to the conclusion. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Is there any such thing as innate knowledge?



Prabhupāda: Innate knowledge means that knowledge which you are cultivating, that is already there.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, if you are unable to receive knowledge from a higher authority, could you still somehow have this knowledge inside?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Inside, there is. We say caitya*-guru; Kṛṣṇa is within.



Śyāmasundara: So one could understand about Kṛṣṇa perhaps if he was unable to receive from outside?



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is everything, outside and inside. Inside He is Paramātmā, outside He is spiritual master. So Kṛṣṇa is trying to help the conditioned soul both ways*-outside and inside. Therefore spiritual master is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa comes outside as spiritual master, and inside He is personally there.



Śyāmasundara: So according to Kant, the first or basic stage is that one perceives objects and gives them concepts of time and space. Then the second step is called transcendental analytic. In other words, human understanding changes these perceptions into conceptions or ideas, which possess analytical unity. In other words, the mind applies categories to whatever it perceives. And there are four categories that he describes: quantity, quality, relationship and modality.



Prabhupāda: What is modality?



Śyāmasundara: Modality means whether it is possible or impossible; whether it is existent or nonexistent; whether it is necessary or dependent. Like that.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



*Śyāmasundara: So this is the process of material reasoning, that when we see something, we can understand it by applying our reason, that it is such*-and-such weight, it is measured with the mind. This is called the categorical imperative. The next, third step, is called the transcendental dialectic. In this stage, beyond reasoning, the mind seeks to understand everything, but the sense information is inadequate, so it tries to go beyond sense experience.



Prabhupāda: How?



Śyāmasundara: He says the mind is aware that there is an ultimate reality, or a thing in itself, a noumenon, which produces each phenomenon, but the mind is not equipped to sense this ultimate reality. So the mind must remain forever content to be agnostic.



Prabhupāda: No. He should go to higher authorities. Why should he remain agnostic? If there is possibility, mind cannot go beyond this, but if the same thing, we say upon the roof there is some sound, now we speculate, but we cannot ascertain what is the sound. But if somebody is actually there, he says, "This sound is due to this." So why I shall remain satisfied with agnostic position, that I could not ascertain what is the sound, and therefore I shall remain satisfied? I shall say, "Is there anybody on the roof?" If somebody says, "Yes. I am here," "Will you kindly say what is the sound?" "Yes: this, that, this, that." Therefore Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārtham: that which is beyond your senses, you must approach a spiritual master. He will give you information. That is our system, accepting guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One who is inquisitive to understand the transcendental subject, he must approach a guru. What is guru? Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam: guru, who is expert or well versed in the Vedic literatures, śruti. And what is the result? How can I understand that he is well versed in Vedic literature? Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayaḥ. He has forgotten everything material; he is simply concerned with the spirit soul. That's all. Everything is there. So Kant here is imperfect in his knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: Actually, he is just exploring this possibility, that because we can't know it by our senses therefore we must...



*Prabhupāda: That is misleading. Nobody can ascertain in that way. That is not possible. In the śāstras it is said that panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamya. He is thinking he is a man living for fifty or sixty or a hundred years. But if somebody is there, just like modern, these sputnik scientists, they say that if one can go forty thousands of years at the speed of light, he can approach the topmost planet. So śāstra says even one goes forty thousands of years, still you won't find where is Kṛṣṇa, where is Kṛṣṇa's abode. Not only at the speed of light, but he says the speed of mind and air. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām: [Bs. 5.34] still, the subject matter which is beyond my senses will remain the same, beyond my senses. This material attempt will not help. Never. There is another verse that adhane gopī chindan vidhena ataḥ pudedevo padamjadayan (?): "Dear Lord, a devotee who has got a little grace from your lotus feet, padamjadaya (?), he can understand You. Others, they may speculate for millions of years. Still it is not possible." Just like Kṛṣṇa says that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of people, one is interested to make his life successful, and out of millions of successful..." Successful means one who understands that I am not this body. You ask, you take census, in this Nairobi city, you will find that 99.9%, or more than that, people do not know what he is. Everyone knows that "I am this body." So perfection of life means one who understands that "I am not this body..." They become impersonalists, something like that, or voidists. Out of them-those who have understood perfection, that "I am not this body"*-one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Out of many thousands of people who have attained actual perfect. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is actually not so easy, but these devotees are actually realizing Kṛṣṇa. Why? By the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Because the devotees are engaged in His service, He is revealing Himself. That is the process. Not by this, Kant's speculation. It is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: He says that although this ultimate reality appears unknowable, still the mind seeks to discover it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He cannot be satisfied. He is seeking Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So he says that the real world or the ultimate reality becomes a reconstruction of the mind by speculationists; that they take the contents of this world and reproduce it into what they believe to be the real world.



Prabhupāda: By speculation, the real world for them is negation of this world. That is voidism. I am experiencing everything here material, so this material thinking and other material thinking induces him to conclude that it must be opposite. It must be opposite. This is material. So spiritual means not this form, or formless, or void. So that is also material thinking. Just the opposite number.



Śyāmasundara: He is still proceeding in his method. He comes to some good conclusions. He is trying to understand what makes men's minds work. He says that "Thus this real world becomes an ideal construction in the mind of man."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Ideal construction... Here we are frustrated because everything is temporary; therefore ideal is eternal. That much we can understand. Temporary. Just like I want to live; that is my tendency. Nobody wants to die. But I am hopeless, because this body is not eternal. Therefore ideal life is eternal body.



Śyāmasundara: He says but the mind makes a mistake to apply these categories of reason to achieve transcendental knowledge. Because it realizes the futility of this...



*Prabhupāda: This must be. One who goes with mental speculation, he must fail. Therefore our process is not mental speculation*-to receive knowledge from the perfect.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that man tends to create ideas about the universe which transcend the bounds of experience, and this is what he calls the third stage, or the transcendental dialectic. He says these ideas which transcend the bounds of experience are the realm of pure reason. He calls it pure reason, or transcendental reason. And these are not fictions, but these spring from the very nature of reason itself, these transcendental ideas.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That I already explained: transcendental. We are seeking eternity. I find myself as a soul; I am eternal; *so I must seek an eternal world. This is not my place. I am eternal. The same example: just like fish taken from the water, he is not finding comfortable life. So when the fish is thrown in the water, then it is comfortable. Similarly, I am spirit soul. I am not feeling comfortable with this material body. Therefore the right conclusion is how to go to the spiritual world or attain a spiritual body. That information we are getting from Bhagavad*-gītā, that one who understands Kṛṣṇa or develops his love for Kṛṣṇa, how to see Kṛṣṇa, then he gets a spiritual body to see Kṛṣṇa. Because if one is very much anxious, these thoughts will continue, and at the time of his death, ending this body, if he is filled up with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is immediately transferred. That is assured in the Bhagavad-gītā by Kṛṣṇa. So our business should be: Kṛṣṇa is eternal; *Kṛṣṇa says, "I have spoken to sun*-god, forty millions of years ago." Arjuna says, "How is that?" and He says that "That is the nature: I do not forget, you forget." So Kṛṣṇa's body is eternal, because forgetfulness is due to change of body. As I do not remember what happened in my last life, that means I have to change my body. And Kṛṣṇa remembers; *therefore He does not change His body. Is it not? I forget. Why do I forget? Because I change my body. But Kṛṣṇa does not. That means He does not change His body. That is eternal body. And śāstra also confirms, sat*-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ. So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you get also a similar body like Kṛṣṇa. If you get a material body, why not a spiritual body? It requires simply a process, how to get a spiritual body. So these things they do not know.



Śyāmasundara: He's getting a hint, Kant.



Prabhupāda: Yes. By intellectual speculation one may get some hint, but not perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: He says, for instance, that this pure reason or this transcendental reason is there to guide man to an understanding of wider knowledge, to guide his understanding to knowledge, and that the aim of this pure reason is to find the totality of synthesis, in other words, to understand everything. By knowing the ultimate reality, one will understand everything.



Prabhupāda: So simply by understanding that he is spirit, gradually he understands that there is a spiritual world. This spiritual world is full of varieties. Everything is there, exactly like this, but that is eternal and this is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this pure reason has a regulative value, that is, by attempting to grasp the totality of conditions by connecting a particular phenomenon with the whole experience. In other words, for example, the idea of a supreme being is a regulative principle of reason because it tells us to view everything in the world in connection, as if it proceeded from the necessary cause, or the Supreme Being.



Prabhupāda: The Supreme Being is the cause of all causes.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So he says to suppose, or to use my pure reason, to come to the conclusion that there is a Supreme Being is a regulative function, because it makes everything regular. By coming to the conclusion that there is a Supreme Being, the rest of everything, all phenomena, become regulated in relationship with the Supreme Being. This is the natural impulse.



*Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My direction the whole material nature is working, and everything is going on," hetunānena kaunteya, jagat viparivartate. On this account, everything in this cosmic manifestation is going on regularly. All Vedic śāstras describe like that, that behind these phenomena there is a direction of a person, and He is the Supreme Person.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that this is a natural impulse, that it is the nature of reason itself to find regularity, a total regularity, for everything. So that it must suppose that there is a Supreme Being in order to find that total synthesis.



*Prabhupāda: So in your preaching you can use this Kant's statement, how he is confirming the statement of Bhagavad*-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā directly says and he as a philosopher has found out that this is a fact. So this may help in our preaching work.



Śyāmasundara: He says that phenomena are so endless that it is impossible to arrive at ultimate reality by the reason alone, because there are certain what he calls transcendental illusions.



Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take Kṛṣṇa's assertion. I am puzzled with these varieties of phenomenal changes, and you cannot understand how these things are being done. But as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa, He says that "I am behind this. I am doing it." Then your conclusion is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that when you examine material phenomena by your reason, you come to certain contradictions, and he calls them antimonies. He lists four antimonies. An antimony means both sides are true.



*Prabhupāda: In Sanskrit it is called bhiruda dharma*-words that mean both "yes" and "no." He can adjust-yes and no, both.



Śyāmasundara: He says logically these are not fallacious; both sides are true. For instance, his first antimony is, "The world has a beginning in time and is enclosed in limits of space." This is the thesis. Then the antithesis is, "The world has no beginning in time and no limits in space, but is infinite with regard to both time and space." So he says reasonably both conclusions are true.



*Prabhupāda: So how to adjust? How to adjust is there in the Bhagavad*-gītā. It says this material phenomenal world is coming into existence and again annihilated. Again coming. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. So this material nature, coming in manifestation and again vanquished, this process, coming into existence and then vanquished, this is also true. Just like day and night, it is coming and going. This is true. But night is not day; day is not night.



Śyāmasundara: The first antimony describes the quantity of the world. The second antimony deals with the quality of the world. The thesis is, "Every composite substance in the world is made up of simple parts, and nothing whatever exists but the simple, or that which is composed out of the simple." And the antithesis is, "No composite thing in the world is made up of simple parts, nor does anything simple exist anywhere in the world." On the one hand, everything is simple, made up of simple parts. On the other hand, nothing is simple; everything is complex.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The simple is, we say, the whole world is made of material energy. This is simple. Now, the component parts of material energy, there are so many things-mahat-tattva, then pradhāna, then puruṣa, then twenty-four elements, the five gross elements, eight subtle elements, the five senses, the objects of the senses*-and in this way there are so many analytical complications.



Śyāmasundara: So his third antimony is the causal, or relation (?) of the world. He says, first of all, thesis: "Causality in conformity with laws of nature is not the only causality from which all the phenomena of the world can be derived. To explain these phenomena it is necessary to suppose that there is also a free causality." And the antithesis is, "There is no freedom, but all that comes to be in the world takes place entirely in accordance with laws of nature." So on the one hand he is saying that sometimes we observe an exception to the laws of causality, that something happens which is completely uncaused or unexplainable, so that there must be no such thing as a strict law of cause and effect.



*Prabhupāda: No. There is, strictly. He cannot explain*-you do not know-but there must be some cause. Therefore ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa, or God.



Śyāmasundara: Sometimes when there is some aberration...



Prabhupāda: There is no such thing as accident. We do not accept anything as accident. There cannot be any accident.



Śyāmasundara: So if you saw something miraculous, it could be explained that Kṛṣṇa...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Miracles means you cannot conceive how it is being done. The same example, as I said, that if you want to paint one rose flower you require so many things, but that also is not real rose flower. But imitation, it may be perfect, but you have to take so much trouble in collecting the paint, the colors, and your energy, then duration of work, and some day it may come out perfect. But the same energy is working so swiftly that you see automatically a rose flower is coming out. The same example again: just like this airplane, there are thousands of complicated electronic machinery arrangements, but you see that the pilot is simply pushing a button. That's all. But layman is seeing that "Simply by pushing a button, a miraculous thing is happening." But no, with the pushing of the button there are so many complicated machineries, they work one after another, one after another. So similarly, God's energy is so subtle that simply by His willing, the process takes place, but it takes place so swiftly and quickly, we see it as miracle. So there is no such thing as miracle. The process is there, but it acts so quickly and nicely, we see it as miracle. Just like a man is very innocent, illiterate, so servant, so I give a chit, "Just give it to Bhavānanda," Bhavānanda gives you ten thousand rupees. So he says, "Oh, what is this miracle? He writes some few lines and immediately ten thousand rupees came?" So to him, it is miracle. Isn't it? But Bhavānanda says "Prabhupāda wants ten thousand*-I'll give him," that's all. He sees my signature and I want it. But this man does not know. He takes it as miracle: "Oh, a chit of paper brings immediately ten thousand rupees?" Miracles to the rascals, fools!



Śyāmasundara: So they can exist simultaneously. On one hand, there are very strict laws of nature, which no one can counteract. But on the other hand, we see something like Kṛṣṇa lifting the Govardhana Hill.



*Prabhupāda: That is also not miracle. That is not miracle, because in the yoga*-siddhi you can make anything lighter than this cotton. So Kṛṣṇa is Yogeśvara. So by His yogic power He made the whole hill as a cotton swab. That is yogic principle. But for a layman, for a human being, he has to practice this yoga for millions of years; then he comes to perfection. But Kṛṣṇa is Yogeśvara. By His will, immediately it is done. It is not a miracle. It is turning the whole thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa is floating so many big big planets in the air. These modern scientists can say all nonsense, but it is miracle, it is miracle to them. But to Kṛṣṇa it is not. Kṛṣṇa has got such a saṅkarṣaṇa. He has got some power, Yogeśvara. He can do that.



Śyāmasundara: What is this yogic power? What does that mean?



*Prabhupāda: That is called laghimā siddhi, aṇimā siddhi, laghimā siddhi. Aṇimā, you become the smallest. The yogis, you pack in a box. I've seen it. Pack them in a box. One Mr. Cakravartī, (laughter) he was packed in... I told you, he was packed in a bag, it was sealed then put in a box. The box was locked, it was sealed, and he came out. I have seen it. That is called aṇimā siddhi. Simple: there must be some hole-however tightly you pack it, there is little hole*-and the spirit soul is so little, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, then comes out...



Śyāmasundara: And then he materializes another body outside.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And the other yogic powers?



Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds: aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti. Prāpti, now you are sitting here, now you have left something in London, you simply... (laughter). No telephone call; stretch your hand and get it. Prāpti. They can go by the beams of the sun in the sun globe. Prāpti. Then mahimā, you can become bigger than the biggest.



Śyāmasundara: How is that?



*Prabhupāda: How is that? That you have to learn. (laughter) You practice yoga and you learn. Just like Hanumān, he jumped over the sea. So it is a question of becoming bigger. Just like you can jump over this space, but if you have got bigger body, then you can jump bigger space. That is called mahimā*-siddhi. So if you increase you body proportionately, then you can cross the sea from here to here. Your legs become bigger and your jumping becomes more bigger. This is the process. It is called mahimā-siddhi. Again he carried the hill. Rāmacandra asked him, "You bring Me that medicine from there." He could not find it so he got up the whole hill. So those are yogic siddhis.



Śyāmasundara: What are the others?



Prabhupāda: Aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, mahimā, prākāmya, īśitā, vaśitā. You can control anyone. Whatever you say, he will carry out. Any big man, you can put some influence. Vaśitā. Just like these this rascal Maharishi, he has got little yogic power. So he controls, gives you some mantra you'll become God and all this nonsense, but he is controlling. Whatever he'll ask, you will pay. That is control. Actually he is controlling his mind, that whatever he asks, you will do. These are bogus things.



Śyāmasundara: Like hypnotism.



*Prabhupāda: By hypnotism, yes. I think I have discussed in The Nectar of Devotion. So this is possible even by ordinary yogis, and what to speak of Kṛṣṇa, who is known as Yogeśvara. He is the master of all mystic power. So one who does not know these things, they say, "Oh, these are all stories." It is not story. It is no miracle. They are all possible. So there is no such thing as miracle. It is a process of doing. One must know how to do it. There is no miracle. We don't say anything miracle. But for appreciating, you can say it is. You see Kṛṣṇa is said as Yogeśvara, master of all mystic yoga processes: yatra yogeśvara hari. In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said. So our yogic power is, our yoga process is to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. He'll act, and you'll get the credits. (laughter) Just like our movement: Kṛṣṇa is doing and I am getting the credit. (laughter) Yes. Why should we bother about acquiring all this mystic power? Just depend on Kṛṣṇa. He is Yogeśvara. He'll do everything, and you'll get the credit. And Kṛṣṇa wants that. Just like his advice to Arjuna, "This is already planned. You don't think that if you do not fight they'll go back. That is not possible. But you simply take the credit, that's all."



Śyāmasundara: His fourth antimony relates to the modality of the world, whether or not the world requires an absolute being. First of all, that is the thesis: "There exists an absolutely necessary being, which belongs to the world either as a part or as a cause of it," and the antithesis is, "There nowhere exists an absolutely necessary being, either in the world or outside of the world, as its cause." So by reason alone one can either say that there is a God or that there is not a God.



Prabhupāda: There is a God. That is reason. And how can one support that there is no God? What is that reason?



Śyāmasundara: Well, strictly according to these categories of quality, quantity, relation and modality, it is possible also to conclude that there is nothing beyond the material nature. If one uses only the senses...



Prabhupāda: But where do you get your senses?



Śyāmasundara: One could say that they are only a combination of matter.



Prabhupāda: But where does the matter come from?



Śyāmasundara: According to material reasoning, one could say that there is no necessary source of matter; it is not necessary to conclude that there is a cause of matter.



Prabhupāda: But we see that matter is growing. Just like a tree is matter, it is growing.



Śyāmasundara: It may have been eternally existing.



Prabhupāda: How eternally existing? The tree is not eternally existing. This brass pot is metal. Somebody has made it.



Śyāmasundara: But the matter itself could have been eternally existing.



Prabhupāda: Similarly, matter also, we see, just like the tree is growing. The tree is wood. Wood is also matter. Stone is also growing. So how is it growing?



Śyāmasundara: Well, strictly materially speaking, I could say, well, there are some material reasons...



*Prabhupāda: Just like my material body, it has grown. There was no existence, but combination of father and mother, the body is made and it grows, and again it is vanquished. That is the nature of matter. It takes birth at a certain moment, it grows, then it makes by*-products, then it dwindles, then vanquishes. This is the nature of matter, any matter, anything you take. This material world is also like that. All these trees, they have grown up, and when they are grown up, you take the wood, you make houses, you make boxes, you make bedsteads, and so many things. But it is a fact that the trees have grown up from the seed. And wherefrom the seed comes?



Śyāmasundara: From the father tree.



*Prabhupāda: Father tree. Now Kṛṣṇa says, bījaṁ māṁ sarva*-bhūtānām [Bg. 7.10]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the cause of everything.



*Śyāmasundara: Well, his point is that these contradictions*-saying that "There is a God," "There is no God"-these contradictions only arise because the reason attempts to apply its categories to the transcendent of the absolute, whereas these categories are only applicable to empirical experience. In other words, by reason alone I cannot...



Prabhupāda: This is by reason only. I see everything is growing; therefore the whole cosmic manifestation must have grown from a source. This is reason.



Śyāmasundara: This is transcendental reason.



Prabhupāda: No. Common reason. Every matter is growing from a certain source, so therefore this material world must have grown from a certain source.



Śyāmasundara: How could some people look at the seed of a tree and come to a different conclusion?



Prabhupāda: From a source. Therefore the perfect reason is that this cosmic manifestation. Also we get from authoritative books, Vedic literature, how it has grown.



Śyāmasundara: How is it that someone else could apply their material reason and come to a different conclusion?



Prabhupāda: What is that reason? How can he prove? He must have proved by his experience. Thus his experience proving that things are... The man who is talking of this nonsense can he prove that he is born without his father? How is that? How his existing is there? How his material body came into existence? It was caused by his father. Then how can he deny the cause? His very existence is depending upon some cause.



Śyāmasundara: So according to one point of view, Hume's point of view, cause and effect are not necessarily related, that they are habitually connected.



Prabhupāda: The scientist, he'll say that the father begets the child. Why it is not related? It is simply lunacy not to believe this. Where is the instance that without father some child has taken birth? Where is such instance? He himself is talking such nonsense. He is born by his father. The cause is his father. Similarly, his father is also the effect of his father. Therefore there is supreme father, father of this cosmic manifestation. How you can deny it? That is the defect of the speculators: they contradict themselves.



Śyāmasundara: This is just what he is saying, that whenever you try to speculate about the Absolute you will run into contradictions.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So contradiction mean imperfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge means who sticks to his principles. That is perfect knowledge. One who does not stick to his original proposal, his knowledge is imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that by trying to apply their reason to the transcendental, that they naturally will run into trouble, that there will be contradictions in their thought. By trying to apply these empirical categories to the transcendental, naturally there will be these contradictions. They will not be able to discover the real nature of things because there is always some contradiction by using the reason.



*Prabhupāda: Without fixed up conclusion, there is contradiction. Our fixed*-up conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes. How, one after another, the categories are developed, that is in the Vedic literature. But it is summarized that Kṛṣṇa desired or He put His glance over the material nature and the material nature became impregnated, and then He delivered so many things. Matter and spirit have combined together, and the whole cosmic manifestation has come into being.



*Śyāmasundara: To go back to this idea of cause and effect, Kant says that just as time and space are a priori concepts or mental creations*-in other words, before we have any sense experience, we still have an idea of time and space-just as this is so, so also cause and effect is a priori category of human understanding.



Prabhupāda: So that a priori existence is there, time and space.



Śyāmasundara: Time and space, and cause and effect.



Prabhupāda: I take my birth and at a certain time time. So time was existing before my birth, and after my death time will continue to exist. Similarly, space. But, temporarily, I take some time. That is the duration of my life. Or I am occupying some space. This is temporary. Time and space are eternally there. At least time is eternally there, because space is also born in time.



Śyāmasundara: How is that?



Prabhupāda: That we get from Bhāgavata. Because this material space is also ākāśa, it is born of the finer subtle mind and intelligence. In the Bhāgavata the description is there. Space is also the creation.



Śyāmasundara: So this Hume has said that cause and effect are habitual assumptions, that we can naturally assume that a certain effect follows a certain cause. But it is not necessary that the cause makes the effect.



Prabhupāda: No. We disagree with that. Without cause there cannot be any effect. Let him prove that this is..., there is an existence without any cause. Then he can say like that.



Śyāmasundara: Hume's example is if we find a footprint on the beach, normally we can assume that a human being left it...



Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Why normally? That is factually.



Śyāmasundara: Still, it remains a probability.



Prabhupāda: Why probability?



Śyāmasundara: It is possible that something else left the footprint.



Prabhupāda: How is it possible?



Śyāmasundara: There could have been a cast made of another foot, and someone else could have made it. Other possibilities could exist.



*Prabhupāda: That is nonsensical. Someone will come and make a footprint to mislead you! That is also caused. (laughter) So it is a foolish idea. That is also caused*-someone came; there is cause.



Śyāmasundara: This is just what Kant is saying. He says, no, still we are born with an idea of cause and effect. This is a priori...



Prabhupāda: No. This is fact: cause and effect is always there.



Śyāmasundara: He says that intuitively, when we see something, we understand what is cause and what is effect.



Prabhupāda: You cannot understand what is the cause, but there must be cause. There must be cause. Without cause, nothing can happen. That is his imperfect knowledge, that something may happen without cause. No. That does not happen.



Śyāmasundara: For example, the idea of the bird flying on the limb and the fruit. Either the bird caused the fruit to fall, or it fell, but the cause is still there.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Either you accept this cause or that cause, that is a different thing, but cause must be there. So this example is given that they are fighting unnecessarily to find out the cause. But cause is there. Just like some foolish person enquired when the living entity became fallen. What is the use of this question? Simply take it is fallen.



Śyāmasundara: There is a cause.



Prabhupāda: There is a cause. Now, you may not find out the cause, just like here is a diseased man, and there is some cause. So instead of finding out the cause, you go on treating the disease. Get it cured. But cause must be there. Otherwise he is infected, why others are not infected? The cause must be there.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that the laws of physics are not inherent in nature, but they are modes of thought.



Prabhupāda: No. This is also nonsense. There is a law. All physical things which are going on, there is a law. Just like while the temperature is below zero, the water becomes solid. That is a physical law.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That happens when it is below zero, but our understanding of that phenomenon, that law of physics, is only because of our thought process. Our thought process analyzes it.



Prabhupāda: Analysis is also thought process, but you cannot think that when the water becomes solid, at a certain temperature, you cannot think that it is liquid. This is factual. (indistinct) Here is a medical man; there is disease. We may not find out, but he knows it must have been caused.



Śyāmasundara: What he is saying is that so that water may freeze, physical nature goes through changes, but it only becomes a law in our minds, when we begin to think about it.



Prabhupāda: Why in your mind? That is the law. When the temperature is reduced to a certain point, the water becomes frozen and becomes solid. That is the law. How can you say without law?



Śyāmasundara: But the concept of law is a mode of thought.



Prabhupāda: Well, that is imperfect human society. But nature's law, God's law, is not like that. Nature's law: just like fire burns; it burns everywhere. It is fact, perpetually. It is not that in certain cases it burns and in certain cases it does not. It burns. Even a child touches the fire, it will burn. No consideration. Just like in human law, a child steals and an adult steals. Court excuses, "He is a child. Let him be." But nature's law is not like that. The fire, whether adult touches or a child touches, it must burn. That is nature's law.



Śyāmasundara: When we conceive of "fire burns," we are shaping an interpretation of the phenomenon. We have experienced it, so we shape an interpretation, and that becomes a law in our minds.



Prabhupāda: What is that law in the mind, you may think or may not think, the law will act. (laughter) Simply speculation. It has no meaning. It is called jugglery of words, that's all. To some foolish men, he is accepted as a great philosopher, but it is simply jugglery of words, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says because the mind imposes a priori these laws upon nature as both necessary and universal, that proves that the mind is creative and that it's not a blank slate or tabula rasa.



*Prabhupāda: Mind is creative, that's a fact. Creative. He is creating and again rejecting. That is the mind's business, saṅkalpa*-vikalpa.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that to apply those four categories of reason onto objects in order to understand them, he says this creates certain knowledge, and so that further judgment beyond these categories would be guesswork or unprovable dogma. But, he says, still the mind is not satisfied with these partial explanations. Even though knowledge that transcends these categories is guesswork, still the mind desires to know something beyond them.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called philosophy. That inquisitiveness is called philosophy. Cause of the cause: this is caused by this; *what is the cause of this? Unless he comes to the final cause, this research goes on. That is the nature of advanced mind. They are called munis, those who are very thoughtful. So that is the nature of greater mind, mahātmā, to find out the ultimate cause. That is human nature. Therefore, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta*-sūtra says this jijñāsā, inquiry, "What is after this? What is after this? What is brāhmaṇas? What is Brahman? This is not Brahman. This is not Brahman..." The next answer is that "Brahman means janmādy asya [SB 1.1.1], the supreme source from where everything emanates." So unless he goes to the supreme source, he is not satisfied. So those who are going by mental speculation, they come to that impersonal feature. Then, if he makes further advancement, just like in Īśopaniṣad, that "You wind up Your glaring impersonal feature so that we can see You brightly." So this glaring impersonal Brahman, if you go, penetrate, again through this impersonal Brahman, when you come to Kṛṣṇa, then you will be satisfied. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: [Bg. 7.19] after researching in this way, speculating, researching and researching and researching, bahūnāṁ janmanām, birth after birth, and when he comes to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19], that mahātmā is rare.



*(break*-continues next day)



Śyāmasundara: Yesterday we were discussing Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, wherein he tried simply through exercising his reason to understand the totality of things. Today we will discuss the conclusions of that particular attempt at pure reason. He says that man, after the futility of applying this categorical analysis to transcendental knowledge, then he attempts to create ideas about the universe which transcend his experience. He finds his efforts fail when he tries to understand more than material nature, so he tries to create ideals about that which transcends his experience.



Prabhupāda: So he fails in the material knowledge, and then he attains transcendental knowledge. What is this?



Śyāmasundara: He fails to understand transcendental knowledge by applying the techniques of material knowledge.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That means with material senses you cannot go to the transcendental knowledge. Then how can he form ideas of transcendence?



Śyāmasundara: Well, in this particular attempt Kant is trying to form those ideas purely through the reason. Pure reason.



Prabhupāda: You say that material senses cannot reach transcendence. Then what is the meaning of reasoning? If your senses are imperfect, so if you put some reason by the senses, then that is also imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that reason acts a priori, or separate from the senses, independent of the senses; that reason can understand that there is God, there is soul, etc., without use of the senses.



Prabhupāda: That is possible.



Śyāmasundara: In fact he recognizes three such ideals of pure reason: one is the soul, two is the ultimate world or reality, and three is God. He says that these three ideals are a priori to the reason. They are born with us. We know these things.



Prabhupāda: That is also true. We also accept. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. Our tendency to offer service to the Lord, that is natural. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that He is eternal servant; therefore that tendency should be natural. But it is some way or another covered by material ignorance.



Śyāmasundara: He says whereas sense perception cannot provide the information about the soul and about God, pure reason can penetrate into the unknowable and provide us with conceptions in order to grasp the whole of reality.



Prabhupāda: This is not very clear, that sense perception cannot reach soul. But he says that reason is beyond the senses.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that we can grasp conceptions of God and soul and reality through the use of pure reason.



Prabhupāda: How the reason is exercised?



Śyāmasundara: He comes to the conclusion that these ideals of perfect knowledge are set up, but they are unprovable and unknowable. We can never know any more than that, that there is God, there is soul, there is reality, but we cannot know anything more than that. We don't have any more information than that.



Prabhupāda: Anything cannot be known more than that by his personal attempt. But they can be known through a process which is called paramparā.



Śyāmasundara: He says they cannot be known through pure reason alone. Later he admits they can be known in other ways. But purely through the exercise of reason, we cannot know that there is anything about God or anything about soul, even though we may know they exist.



*Prabhupāda: When God speaks, then it is possible. That is our process. We hear from God*-what, where, how He is-therefore our knowledge is perfect. According to Kant, one cannot reach by reason and senses. Avāṅ-manasā gocaraḥ. That's a fact. That is admitted in Vedas: avāṅ-manasā gocaraḥ. Vana means words, mana means mind. Neither by words, neither by the mind one can reach. But it is a fact that he is convinced there is God, so if God speaks, God descends by His causeless mercy and speaks, then you can understand about God.



Śyāmasundara: He comes to that point in a way by saying that he has limited all that we can know to mere phenomena, and he has therefore found it necessary to deny knowledge of God, freedom and immortality in order to find a place for faith. In other words, he says that through the reason and the senses we cannot know anything about God, soul, immortality or freedom, so the rest has to be done by faith.



*Prabhupāda: No. Faith, that is a compromise, you see. That is not fact. But this is good that he admits that we cannot approach the final God by our senses or reason. To have faith, that is also not perfect. Therefore the Western philosophers, they have created different faiths, and religion means faith. Somebody may believe in some faith, others may believe in another faith. But that is not factual. The factual is this: if we are actually convinced that there is God, and God is omnipotent, so by His omnipotency He descends. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. "Whenever there is discrepancies in the process of religious principles," abhyutthānam adharmasya tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "when people become irreligious, at that time I descend." He descends for two reasons: paritrāṇāya sādhūnām [Bg. 4.8], for relief of the devotees. Devotees are always anxious to see God, but somehow or other they are unable to see. Of course, they are seeing God, but at the same time face to face(?). So in order to give them relief God descends to be seen face to face. The other reason is that vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām: rascals, miscreants, to kill them. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa, Rāvaṇa, they are the symbolic representations of miscreants. So to kill them. Two things. So one may say that God is partial. No. God is not partial. God is kind to everyone, both to the devotees and to the demons. The demons being killed by God, they get immediate salvation, whereas the devotees, by seeing God, they can understand what is actually the position of God. So God displays himself factually as He does in the spiritual world in Vṛndāvana. His nature is to play with the cowherd boys, to dance with the gopīs. These things are actually displayed, and devotees became encouraged that "After finishing this material body, we are going to Kṛṣṇa, or God, to join these pastimes of the Lord." This is called paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. Sādhus, they heard from the śāstras, but Kṛṣṇa practically demonstrates. So they become doubly confirmed, doubly assured what they are going to have next life. So these things, the transcendental world, God, His activities, we hear. By hearing also we realize. Because God is absolute, therefore to see Him and to hear about Him, there is no difference. There cannot be any difference. By seeing eye to eye or to hear about Him, the same thing.



Śyāmasundara: So after he finished his investigation about what the limits are of pure reason, then he began his critique of practical reason.



*Prabhupāda: This is to be understood, that however expert logician you may be, this is not possible, by your reasons, by your knowledge, to approach the Supreme Absolute. That is not possible. This process that when God descends Himself and He speaks about Himself, He demonstrates about His pastimes, then it is possible. So the Bhāgavata is the record of God's descents. The whole Bhāgavata is philosophy about God, theology about God, and practical demonstration of God. Therefore anyone who takes to Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam or the process of understanding God through Bhagavad-gītā, therefore it is called Bhāgavata, and it is simply about God. Bhagavad-gītā, God speaks Himself about His activities, and Bhāgavata is the record of God's activities, pastimes, and when He appeared on this earth, just like the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Ninth Canto. Nine cantos are devoted for understanding the transcendental nature of God, and the Tenth Canto is practical demonstration of God's activities before the eyes of the people of the world. But those who are miscreants, they think that Kṛṣṇa, or God, He is like an ordinary man but a superhuman being. That's all. But that is actually the position of God. By His causeless mercy He demonstrates Himself to be convincing. So instead of philosophizing, the people take to these two books, Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and if he practices the process, then he will understand God.



Śyāmasundara: After Kant finished this analysis of the pure reason, then he began his Critique of Practical Reason, of reason applied to practical living, to try to find out what were the limits of that study. This is his idea: moral laws are necessary and universal objects of the human will, which must be accepted as valid for everyone. He calls this his categorical imperative. That means that there are certain moral commandments which are universal, and which must be applied to everyone, and which everyone must obey without exception. Now, he says that we know these moral laws a priori, by intuition, and that the individual fact and the situations have no bearing, and there is no consideration of what I want or what I desire, but what I must do, what I ought to do.



Prabhupāda: No. Morality varies according to the development of the particular society. There are so many immoral things going on in the particular type of society which are very, very immoral, but they do not care for it; they do it.



Śyāmasundara: There is no universal morality?



Prabhupāda: Universal morality is to obey God, that's all. This is universal morality.



Śyāmasundara: But are any of God's laws fixed...



*Prabhupāda: That is included. If you obey God, then all the laws are also included. That is the universal morality. Man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Just become My servitor, always think of Me, just offer obeisances unto Me," that is morality.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, that's the basis for morality?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, there are so many immoral things going on that are accepted as morality. How can you find out?



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are...



Prabhupāda: I do not wish to say that in the Koran it is said that "From this day you should stop intercourse with mother."



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are...



Prabhupāda: Does it not say in the Koran? Yes. I've seen one Koran translation. Such a society. Similarly, Lord Jesus Christ said that "You shall not kill." So, so many immoral things are going on that are accepted as not sinful.



Śyāmasundara: He recognizes this, and he says that there are certain imperatives that we are born with, that we know are...



Prabhupāda: What are these? He should say practically. The certain, imperative morality is this: that you should be obedient to God. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the standard for the categorical imperative is that one should act only in such a way that he would want his action to be followed by everyone. In other words, sort of "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you." That is his...



Prabhupāda: This is a compromise. This is not morality.



Śyāmasundara: That you should act only in such a way that your action, you would want everyone in the world to act in the same way. You would want it to be a universal law.



Prabhupāda: So you can allow me to do in my own way, and I allow you to do in your own way.



Śyāmasundara: He uses the example of breaking a promise. He says that if the opportunity is there to break a promise, I should never break the promise, because I would never want anyone else to break a promise.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is going on, man*-made laws. But that is not morality. That standard of morality is one in one country and just the opposite in another country.



Śyāmasundara: But isn't the breaking of a promise a universal moral command, that one should never break his promise, whether it is here or other countries?



Prabhupāda: Well that's all right, but for practical purposes they are breaking promises at every moment.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He understands this, but his idea, he wants to get to the basis of morality by saying that...



Prabhupāda: That is a good quality. That is brahminical quality, not to break promise, to be truthful. That is goodness.



Śyāmasundara: This is an example of how one should look at his actions; that he should judge his own actions according to what he would want everyone else to do, and that these must be...



Prabhupāda: But it is not possible that everyone will be able to do. Just like you become truthful. It may be universal truth, but you do not expect that everyone will be truthful. That is not possible. Therefore it is not universal. It is meant for certain types of men. How can he say this is universal?



Śyāmasundara: But he says that the fact that I ought to do this implies that I can do it, and everyone can do it.



*Prabhupāda: That is nice. I ought to do it, but I cannot do it. So there is therefore a scientific method of classification of people. That is varṇāśrama. Certain people cannot do it, although they know they ought to do it. He is a śūdra. And a man who does it practically, he is brāhmaṇa. So therefore there must be classification. This class of men, they know that this is good and they do it, and the other class, either they do not know, or even they do know, they cannot do it. So therefore there must be distinction between these two classes of men. Therefore this classification, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: [Bg. 4.13] "The four classes of men, it is designed by Me." But you cannot find all men of the same level. Therefore there must be a class of men who are to be called brāhmaṇa, a class of men who are to be called kṣatriyas, a class of men who are to be called vaiśyas, and a class to be called śūdras. That is a natural division. Because in this world, you cannot find all men of the equal level, on the same platform. That is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these moral imperatives or these moral commands must be obeyed without exception.



Prabhupāda: That is nice, but it is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: Individual circumstances should not have any bearing.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the basic principles of civilization should be that those who are unable to do it, they should be trained up. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are elevating persons from the lowest level to the highest level. That we are actually doing. So these four classes of men exist, but by education, by training, the lowest class of men can be elevated to the highest class. That is our movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: It is true that if there are certain laws, moral commandments, that I should follow them regardless of individual exception? There are no exceptions, regardless...



Prabhupāda: That is brahminical qualification. A brāhmaṇa shall be truthful in all circumstances. Even before his enemy, he will disclose everything, what is truth. That is brahminical qualification, whereas kṣatriya, he is a diplomat. Although he is truthful, but he will not be truthful before his enemy.



Śyāmasundara: Because his function is different.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: He says that duty is one's individual obligation to obey the categorical imperative by choosing the morally right action. In other words, duty means it is my duty to choose the morally right action, free from emotion.



Prabhupāda: Therefore, as soon as you say duty, duty should be prescribed by some higher authority. In that sense, this system is very scientific: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. It is very scientific. For brāhmaṇa, these are the duties; *a kṣatriya, these are the duties. Every duty may appear different, but because it is a command of the Supreme, by discharging these duties on different platform, he is serving the Supreme. If Kṛṣṇa says, "All right, I see you are a brāhmaṇa. Your duties are like this," "I see you are a kṣatriya. Your duties are like this," "I see you are a vaiśya. Your duties are like this..." But Kṛṣṇa says cātur*-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. I have divided, so Kṛṣṇa gives duty, that "Your duty is this, your duty is this, and your duty is this." And if he faithfully serves the duty, that means he is serving Kṛṣṇa. The duties may appear different, but because he is serving Kṛṣṇa, he is going to perfection. Just like in our institution, I am the head man, so I may say, "You paint. You preach. You type. You do this." So the duties may be different, but by discharging duty, you are serving me; therefore you are perfect. Similarly, duties are given by the Supreme. Because I see that you are a śūdra, you cannot discharge the duties of a brāhmaṇa. That is not possible. So you do your duty like this. So superficially it may seem that a śūdra's duty is inferior to the brāhmaṇa's duty, but if the śūdra is performing his duty in accordance to the order of the Supreme, then he is also serving. The service is the main point. The same example of our body, that the duty of eyes, seeing, it is different from the duty of the legs, walking. But walking and seeing, both of them are being utilized for the whole body; *therefore all of them are useful. So there cannot be any fixed*-up duty, neither is everyone able to follow the same principles. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma is very scientific. That is to be understood.



Śyāmasundara: So ideally it is the moral obligation of everyone to obey the moral command, but...



*Prabhupāda: Not moral command*-the supreme command. What is moral for you, it may be immoral for others. One man's food is another man's poison. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says to Yudhiṣṭhira, "Go and tell lies." That is moral. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "What is this nonsense? You fight. Kill them." That is moral. So moral means to obey Kṛṣṇa's order, God's order. That is morality. You cannot create morality. You are imperfect. Your senses are imperfect. You do not know what is actually moral. Therefore we should implicitly, blindly follow the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative. That is moral.



Śyāmasundara: So the real categorical imperative is to obey the Supreme.



Prabhupāda: That is right. That is moral. Other things, all immoral.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that we must follow our duty*-not mechanically, but out of respect for it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose if I say that "You do this," just like Kṛṣṇa says that "You go and say Droṇācārya." So unless he has got implicit faith... Yudhiṣṭhira was lacking that implicit faith. Therefore he said, "How can I say such lies?" But Arjuna is better than Yudhiṣṭhira. He thought that "Although I am thinking it is very moral not to kill my relatives, but Kṛṣṇa likes it, I must do it." That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that ethics or morality should be institutionalized, regardless of the individual circumstances.



Prabhupāda: He comes to the circumstances. Therefore the morality should be according to the circumstances.



Śyāmasundara: He says the opposite: regardless of individual circumstances, everyone should follow the moral imperative. But we say that circumstances determine how one follows.



Prabhupāda: Then suppose the (indistinct) state, "Thou shalt not kill." So why killing is going on?



Śyāmasundara: In wars.



Prabhupāda: In any circumstances. It is not that killing is stopped, although the state is meant for prohibiting killing. But there is still in the slaughterhouse killing is going on, in war killing is going on, and so many other places killing is going on.



Śyāmasundara: He is thinking of it more as a personal way of determining how to act, like "I should not act counter to this moral imperative."



Prabhupāda: No. Because suppose that a snake is here and it is dangerous; he'll bite. So killing is necessary. But if you say, "No. I shall not kill this snake. Let it bite. All right, let them all die..." These are simply mental speculations. He has no perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: He has the idea that we know what is morally right.



Prabhupāda: You do not know what is morally right! Therefore you have to take instruction from Kṛṣṇa, or His representative. You do not know.



Śyāmasundara: A priori we are not born with knowledge of what is right?



*Prabhupāda: No. A priori, in this sense, that imperceptively I have got obedience to Kṛṣṇa, or God*-everyone. That is manifested even in uncivilized men. Whenever they see a thunderbolt, they offer prayer. Just like these Africans, they are coming here, offering obeisances. That is inborn. Although we say they are not civilized, but that thing is there, that we are sādhus, or here is God. So that is there. But it is not very much manifest.



Śyāmasundara: So we don't really know, but we have some idea.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is there, everywhere.



Śyāmasundara: He says it is not the act itself which is good or bad but the will behind the act.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That will is sometimes not manifest. Therefore one has to take the help of superior person to develop that willingness.



Śyāmasundara: He says when we see an activity, it's not the act that's good or bad...



Prabhupāda: Just like a child: its will is there, but it has to be developed by the teacher. So he develops his willingness to study more and more and he becomes a scholar. But the will is there already.



Śyāmasundara: But he says when you see an action, the act itself cannot be judged as good or bad, but the will behind the act may be good or bad. That's how we have to judge good or bad, by the will behind the act.



Prabhupāda: That is not very important subject, unless there is willing. So that good or bad also has to be trained. The conditioned soul, anyone in this material world, he is in ignorance. It is called darkness. This material world is called darkness. Everyone, more or less, they are in darkness. The *Vedas* therefore say, "Don't remain in darkness. Go to the light." And the spiritual world is light. Just like day and night. Side by side there is day and night, or sunlight and darkness. So the *Vedas* say "Don't remain in darkness. Go to the light." So willingness in darkness is imperfect. So this willingness has to be dragged to the light. That requires superior help.



Śyāmasundara: What he is saying by that is just like if you see a soldier killing, you can't say that the action is good or bad, of his killing; *but the will behind it*-if his will is to serve the state-then the will is good, so the killing is good. But if you see the man killing someone on the street for his money, then you can say that the will is bad, so the killing is bad. So the action itself of killing is neither good nor bad, but the will behind the killing is what determines if an action is good or bad.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But that will has to be trained. Otherwise he will manufacture that "I am doing this in good sense; therefore it is good." He will manufacture his idea. That is nonsense. Therefore you require guidance.



Śyāmasundara: So there is no inborn idea of that is always correct.



Prabhupāda: Even inborn there is, you must get it confirmed by the superior.



Śyāmasundara: He says that man, because he respects the moral law and practices it, is a personality having infinite dignity. He believes in the dignity of man based upon his adherence to moral principles. If a man follows moral principles, then he has dignity, which is different than any other...



*Prabhupāda: That is already explained, that varṇāśrama*-dharma, because the brāhmaṇas, they follow the good laws, therefore dignity. A brāhmaṇa is supposed to be the first-class man in the society, and therefore they are honored.



*Śyāmasundara: He says everything else has an exchange value or a price, but man alone possesses self*-direction or dignity, and this is priceless, and so we should never stoop to sell ourselves. If we sell ourselves like a commodity, then we lose our dignity.



Prabhupāda: That dignity is his inherent quality of obedience to the Supreme. That we should not sacrifice. Here, modern civilization is that he knows that he is not independent, he is subordinate to God's will. Still, artificially, to defy God he is manufacturing so many philosophies, hypocrisy.



Śyāmasundara: He sees that men sell themselves like commodities. In order to get something, they sell themselves.



Prabhupāda: Yes. To get some popularity, to get some money, to get some adoration, he sacrifices.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that the way man should really act is to follow the moral code, and then he has dignity, because he has self*-direction. He is determined to follow the moral principles, so he has dignity.



Prabhupāda: The moral codes are there. If anyone follows actually, he has dignity.



Śyāmasundara: He says that man belongs to what he calls the "kingdom of ends," because he looks to the ideal, or the perfect. He sees everything in relation to the perfect end and guides his life accordingly. So the means and the end are both perfect, ideal.



Prabhupāda: And what is that end? That he does not describe.



Śyāmasundara: He calls the end the moral law, the moral imperative.



Prabhupāda: That moral law is... What is moral in one circumstance is immoral in another circumstance. That means again imperfectness of idea.



Śyāmasundara: He calls the end the golden rule, that one should act...



Prabhupāda: That is simply abstract ideas. He does not give any concrete example.



Śyāmasundara: He gives the example of breaking a promise.



Prabhupāda: Breaking a promise is sometime moral. Just like Kṛṣṇa broke His promise, Himself. Kṛṣṇa broke His promise. He promised that "In this fight, this war, I shall not take a weapon." But when Arjuna was jeopardized by the fighting of Bhīṣma, He immediately took some weapon and approached Bhīṣma, because Bhīṣma promised that either Kṛṣṇa has to break His promise or Arjuna will die, two things... "Tomorrow I shall fight in this way, then Arjuna will die, unless Kṛṣṇa takes special step." That means He has to break His promise. So he wanted to see that Kṛṣṇa breaks His promise to protect His devotee. That was his idea. So when He broke His promise, he gave up fighting. "That was my purpose, that You have to break your promise to protect your devotee."



Śyāmasundara: He says that a man should never become a mere object of utility. In other words, he should not lower his standard just because it is practical at the time.



*Prabhupāda: More or less, he is a strict moralist. But that is not the highest stage. One has to transcend even this moral principle. That is perfection. Because this moral value is within this material world, moral values, morality, immorality are of this material world. Just like there are three qualities. Morality is on the platform of the modes of goodness. So from higher standard, here in the modes of goodness, suppose one is brāhmaṇa, perfect brāhmaṇa, but he is in the material world. Even though he has got some moral principles, still he is existing in the material world. But according to transcendental spiritual vision, the whole material world is condemned. It is like that if one is a first*-class prisoner. Just like if a politician is in prison, he is given first-class treatment, he is given special bungalow, servants, many facilities, does it mean that he is not a criminal? As soon as one comes to the prison, he's a criminal. He may be a great politician or an ordinary pickpocket. A pickpocket is given third-class prisoner's life, and a politician, Gandhi or Nehru or someone else, big politicians, when they are imprisoned, they are given special treatment. But on account of his being within prison walls, he is condemned. Similarly, anyone who is in this material world, either with the brahminical qualifications or śūdra qualifications, he is a conditioned soul. Of course, so far conditioned life is concerned, there is value of morality and immorality. But the morality may help him to transcend, to come to the transcendental platform, but to come to the transcendental platform is not dependent on morality. It is independent of anything. Just like under the order of Kṛṣṇa, fighting by Arjuna, killing his kinsmen, that is above morality.



Śyāmasundara: It's like you say: morality may help him to transcend. He is beginning to perceive behind this moral law.



Prabhupāda: No. From this instance we find that Arjuna was trying to become moral, not killing his own men; but that did not help him. Rather, by directly abiding by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, he transcended morality. So morality does not always help.



Śyāmasundara: In this particular case of Kant, he begins to perceive that behind morality there is something higher. He says that even though a man is sinful...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly there is higher. That highness is within this material world. There are two stages, two platforms: transcendental platform and physical platform. That highness is physical. Just like Mahatma Gandhi. He was known as a very high*-class man, but he was a materialist, that's all. By his pious activities he may be elevated materially. Just like if you act piously, giving charity, then next birth you get very nice opulent birth, you are born in a rich family, you get enough money. But that is not the solution of your conditional life. To take birth in this family does not mean he hasn't got to undergo the process of birth, the pains of birth, the pains of death. But real problem is that I want to stop these pains of birth, death, old age and disease. Hari me nana mitinatante (?). Without love of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can escape these material conditions of life.



*Śyāmasundara: So Kant is beginning to realize that, by observing that if a man does sin, nevertheless, the fact that the moral law is present somewhere in his personality, that he is able to understand it if he is rightly trained, that this in itself must be regarded as holy. This propensity to understand the moral principles is an inborn holy trait that everyone has. And he says that this self*-determination is the indispensable condition of all morality, that in order to be moral one must be self-determined.



*Prabhupāda: That point we have already discussed, that one should be self*-determined. But sometimes it is not possible to become self-determined. So first of all he does not know what is the aim of life. Suppose one becomes moral or becomes immoral. So what is the difference? I say that it is very easy for me to earn my livelihood by becoming immoral. Why shall I become moral? Then should he be condemned? If he is condemned, why is he condemned?



Śyāmasundara: Because he is not realizing the real nature of man, which is to be dignified and moral.



Prabhupāda: But then he must say what is the real nature of man.



Śyāmasundara: He comes to that. He finds out what is the nature of men through his investigation of morals. He later comes to that point of understanding what is the purpose of man.



Prabhupāda: What does he say is the purpose, ultimate goal of life?



Śyāmasundara: The ultimate goal of life is to attain its own perfection, and to attain...



Prabhupāda: But he does not describe what is perfection.



Śyāmasundara: Perfection is happiness combined with virtue.



Prabhupāda: Happiness everyone thinks. Even a drunkard, he is feeling happiness. Is that happiness? The hog, by eating stool, is feeling happiness. Is that happiness?



Śyāmasundara: But it is not combined with virtue.



*Prabhupāda: Why not virtue? If you get happiness, that is virtuous. That means he has no standard knowledge. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. If a man is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualities. He may be a great philosopher, scientist, but he is a nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā, mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. By his mental speculation he is coming again and again on this material platform, that's all. He has no idea what is happiness, what is goal of life, the aim of life. He has no such idea. Vague. So therefore imperfect knowledge. [break] (end)





Hegel.SYA



Hegel



Śyāmasundara: So today we're discussing the philosopher Hegel, a German philosopher. His basic method is that he wants to synthesize all opposites to arrive at the truth and by doing so his conclusion was that everything that exists is reason, whatever exists is reason, whatever is real is rational, whatever is rational is real.



Prabhupāda: So, that means he wants to arrive at the absolute, that there is no duality. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa says that His mission is to protect the devotees, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. And killing the demons. Kṛṣṇa actually did it. Just like He killed the Pūtanā, the great giant Pūtanā. Superficially he killed, but she got salvation exactly like His mother. Kṛṣṇa gave Pūtanā a position like His mother Yaśodā. Then, what is the difference between loving Yaśodā and killing Pūtanā? Because He is absolute, whatever He does, it is good. God is good. So superficially you may see, "Now God is doing bad," but it is not bad, it is good. Therefore two opposing, viruddhatta samanvaya(?), the Sanskrit word is viruddhata samanvaya(?). Coinciding two opposing elements, and that He can do. Therefore if he comes to Kṛṣṇa, he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, then his philosophical aim will be fulfilled.



Śyāmasundara: He saw that his predecessors had become increasingly abstract in their thinking, trying to find out what is the nature of substance, the essential substance, and they had reduced it to nothingness, practically.



Prabhupāda: Because they do not know, that is vairasana(?). Nirākāra, nirākāra, the Sanskrit word... When one cannot actually specify what is the nature of God, what is the form of God, and by thinking, speculative speculating, they cannot come to the right conclusion, so out of frustration they say, "No, there is no God."



Śyāmasundara: Just like to analyze an object they would divide it up into smaller and smaller parts until they came to nothing.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: That was their process.



*Prabhupāda: (indistinct). The absolute cannot be divided into parts. Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi, in the Bhagavad*-gītā. In the material thing, if you want to cut into pieces, that is (indistinct), but a spiritual being, avyaya, inexhaustible, there is no possibility of dividing the spirit into pieces. The Māyāvāda theory is that the absolute is all-pervading. Then when the question of His form, that is their poor fund of knowledge. The absolute, keeping His form as He is, He can expand Himself. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad-avyakta mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4], "I am spread all over the creation, avyakta, My impersonal form." So God, or Kṛṣṇa, has two features, rather three features, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11], impersonal feature, localized feature and personal feature. So unless we come to understand this science, tattva, it is very difficult to come to the conclusion what is the right form of the absolute truth. So one who cannot go, one who is not so competent, with poor fund of knowledge, they come to the conclusion, nira, void, but actually it is not so.



Śyāmasundara: But he wanted to reverse this trend, from abstraction to concretion. He believed that every phenomenal object had its relationship with the whole and that the whole is reality. So in order to understand reality one had to examine every object and relate it to the whole, and to each other, then he would understand what is the truth.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are doing. The whole is Kṛṣṇa. And just like, take this material example. The whole is sun. The sunshine expanding, that is also in relation with this whole, and similarly Kṛṣṇa is the whole and everything is relative to Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. We see everything related with Kṛṣṇa and because everything is in relationship with Kṛṣṇa that I do not give up anything. We try to utilize everything for service of Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they, although they say everything is Brahman, they say this is non*-Brahman. They say neti, neti, not this, not this. Just like Māyāvādīs, they also say Kṛṣṇa and māyā. This Kṛṣṇa worship is māyā. So we say there is nothing māyā, it is simply illusion; *but they say also like that, one, but as soon as Kṛṣṇa actually comes they say Kṛṣṇa is māyā. So our philosophy is that everything is manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. The energy and the energetic, they're one. So Nārada explains idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaro. The whole universe is bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, but ivetaraḥ, it appears like separate. So how it is not separate, that can be understood through this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise, ordinary man, they think Kṛṣṇa and non*-Kṛṣṇa. Actually there is no non-Kṛṣṇa, that is illusion, everything is Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: This was Hegel's idea, too. That everything together is the, as a whole is the truth or the of the spirit. The whole, the summation of everything is the spirit, nothing can be separated from the spiritual whole, everything is related to it. There is one important point that I'd like to clear up. There was one philosopher we discussed named Kant, before. He... It was his idea that the phenomenon are modes of expression of the spirit or the thing in itself, that the thing in itself expresses itself in an object.



*Prabhupāda: That we say. Just like the sun is expressed by the sunshine, by the heat and light. We understand sun through all spreading heat and light. Similarly, we understand God, Kṛṣṇa, by His two energies. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, the material energy and the spiritual energy, two energies. The spiritual energy is described as superior energy, and material energy is described as inferior energy. Superior, inferior, that is in our consideration because we cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has said. Otherwise there is only one energy, the superior spiritual energy. When the spiritual energy is covered by ignorance, then it is called material energy. Just like the sky, in the sky naturally it is clear but when there is cloud, we cannot see the sun. So sun is there. When we cannot see Kṛṣṇa, cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Otherwise there is nothing material. Everything is spiritual.



Śyāmasundara: But there is a distinction between what Hegel is saying. Hegel is saying that the objects themselves are the spirit expressing itself whereas Kant says the spirit expresses itself through the object. There's a distinction being made between the spirit within the object expressing itself or the spirit as the object.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: What is the distinction?



Prabhupāda: Object as it is, it is spirit.



Śyāmasundara: It is spirit, as it is.



Prabhupāda: As it is. Because, just like sunshine. Sunshine is not sun, in one sense, but it is sun because in the sunshine there is heat and light and in the sun there is heat and light. So there is no difference. But still sunshine is not the sun. Therefore that is our philosophy, acintya bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different.



Śyāmasundara: So in a sense this is spirit.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is spirit actually. But because I have no sense of Kṛṣṇa, I am taking it as matter. Just like sometimes people criticize that "You are spiritualists, you hate materialism, why you are using this table, why you are using this typewriter, microphone." But our reply is that it is not matter, it is spirit. But when you use it for your sense gratification then it is material. Just like prasādam*-the people will say "What is this nonsense, prasādam, we are taking also dahl, rice, capātī, how it becomes spiritual?" They can argue like that and sometimes they do that. But, they do not know that we are accepting this dahl, rice, capātī in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Actually it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They, you cannot produce dahl, rice, it is Kṛṣṇa's production; everything is Kṛṣṇa's production. But when you forget Kṛṣṇa, his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, then it is material. Therefore you revive the relationship with Kṛṣṇa, you offer to Kṛṣṇa, then you understand Kṛṣṇa has eaten, now let us take. Therefore it is spiritual. The consciousness is spiritual.



Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe

*yukta*-vairāgyam ucyate.

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

*hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

*phalgu*-vairāgya kathyate



*This is our philosophy, Rūpa Gosvāmī's philosophy. That hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ; *everything has relation with Kṛṣṇa and those who are giving it up, "No, no it is matter, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this is false," Rūpa Gosvāmī says, phalgu*-vairāgya, that kind of renunciation is insufficient or, phalgu means false, false renunciation. So our renunciation means renounce things for sense gratification. That's all. (indistinct) we renounce anything for our sense gratification, but we accept everything for Kṛṣṇa's senses. But actually everything is spiritual. Just like if Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything material but they argue that you are offering material flower, material food, how will Kṛṣṇa accept? Therefore in essence it is not material, but because we have been habituated to accept them for our sense gratification, therefore it is material. This body... Just like this body, this body is material, everyone knows, but Kṛṣṇa says,



māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*As soon as one engages himself fully in devotional service, he immediately becomes spiritualized. How the spiritual quality is defined. Actually everything is spirit but it is covered. Just like gold, gold is covered by some muddy dirt. So if you cleanse it, the heart, then immediately spiritualized. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So our process is*-that we will stress also-cleansing process, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. I am now thinking (I am) American, Indian. You are thinking (you are) American. This is false. This is false but as soon as you come to consciousness, "No, I am not American, I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel." Then you are spiritual. The same thing remains intact but as soon as you come to the consciousness that I am Kṛṣṇa's, then you are spiritual. What is that verse?



*ātma*-māyām ṛte rājan

parasyānubhavātmanaḥ

*na ghaṭetārtha*-sambandhaḥ

*svapna*-draṣṭur ivāñjasā



*Ātma*-māyām ṛte, it is a māyām ṛte. Māyā, this spiritual and material conception is māyā; *except māyā there is nothing. Na ghaṭetārtha*-sam... Otherwise, except māyā there is no such thing as material. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. It is just like the example in Bhagavad-gītā, nice example, svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā. Just like I am dreaming so many things, I am dreaming; there is nothing such thing, still I am dreaming. I am feeling that I am fallen in a dark well and I am now suffocating. But actually there is no well, there is no suffocation, but I'm thinking because I've fallen or I am absorbed in dream, therefore all these conceptions, material conceptions, māyā, exactly like dreaming. Dreaming, this is the best example. When one dreams he factually suffers, he is put into some dark place and he is trying to get out, he cannot get out; there is no such dark place, he has not fallen, everything is (indistinct). He is suffering, he is suffering, he is crying, "Save me." So actually there is nothing material. But due to our dreaming that I am separate from Kṛṣṇa, "I'm Mr. American, I'm Mr. Indian, I'm Mr. This, I have got this duty, I have got that duty." All this māyā. You have no other duty than to serve Kṛṣṇa because you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. When that consciousness comes, then spiritual (indistinct). So you have to change the consciousness, that's all. (indistinct) Everything is spiritual.



Śyāmasundara: The Kant philosophy, and he took this idea from Plato, is that there is an ideal on which these temporary objects are representatives. For instance the idea of tableness is an abstract idea of perfection. It's represented before me in this table in a perverted form. This table represents the ideal, expresses the ideal, but it is not the ideal.



Prabhupāda: That we say, that this material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. This is reflection.



Śyāmasundara: They say an "image", everything is an image.



Prabhupāda: Yes, we say that, that the same example, just like mirage. Mirage, there is no water but we see a vast sea, or big river is flowing. It is like that. Actually there is no river. No. This is going. This material world is like that. Just Śrīdhara Swami (said that) due to the factual position of the spiritual world, this illusory world appears to be true. Because there is real table.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: The table concept.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Because there is a real table, therefore I am considering this table. This is not table, this is wood. Somebody (may say), "This is not wood, but it was tree." All right, it is tree. Then what? It is not tree, it is seed. All right it is seed. No, it is not seed, it (indistinct) You see. Therefore it is perverted reflection. But there is a real table.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see.



Prabhupāda: There is a real table. Therefore the whole material creation is a perverted reflection and people are enamored by it. People are taking, "This is real table. This is real body. This is real happiness. This is real country. This is real society."



Śyāmasundara: This is what Hegel says, that this is the real table, that these are real objects. They are not images of the real but they are themselves real. There's where...



Prabhupāda: Then he has not the idea what is real. What do you mean by real?



Śyāmasundara: This is a real fact, this table, that this is spirit itself.



Prabhupāda: This is not real fact. This is imitation of the real table. It is fact to a person who has no knowledge of the real. Because it will not exist; that, our reality means which will exist. Otherwise it is not reality.



Śyāmasundara: So this may be real for some time and then...



Prabhupāda: It is temporary, temporary. It is not real. It is some temporary manifestation. The same example, like dreaming; *dreaming is not real but temporary hallucination, that's all. You cannot say this "dream*-real". This word is used, svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā. Just like dream, it is very nice example. In dream everything appears to be real but it is not real, it is all false or temporary.



Śyāmasundara: So what I want to clarify is that you say...



Prabhupāda: He wants to say something.



Devotee: So actually we say there's a difference between reality and existing, even though it exists doesn't mean that it's real.



Prabhupāda: No, real means which exists eternally, that is real.



Devotee: But this exists only temporarily therefore it can't be classified as reality.



Prabhupāda: No, temporary, illusion we'll call it, reality means which exists eternally.



Devotee: That's the table on the spiritual platform.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. There, Kṛṣṇa's abode, Kṛṣṇa's house, Kṛṣṇa's table, chair, furniture, they're all existing, ever*-existing. Here they will not exist.



Śyāmasundara: So what is the distinction then between saying that spirit expresses itself in this object or the spirit is this object.



Prabhupāda: It is the expression of the energy of spirit. Everything is energy. Whatever is manifested, that is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Thus one energy manifestation is eternal and another energy manifestation is temporary. Which is temporary manifestation, that is material, and which is eternal manifestation, that is spiritual.



Śyāmasundara: So you could say both, you could say this is made of spirit.



Prabhupāda: Yes, originally it is made of spirit in this sense, that Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, and because it is Kṛṣṇa's energy, so factually it is Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Is this Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Or is Kṛṣṇa inside of this?



Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... He's(?) Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: This is Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.



Kīrtanānanda: That which is giving rise to your perception of something material is actually spirit. The cause of what you are perceiving is spirit. But what you are perceiving is material.



Prabhupāda: Just like gold. Now you have made an earring. You say it is earring but, it may be earring but it is gold. Another example is, just like earth, earth. So you may take dirt and make a pot. So, and a doll, so many things, varieties. So we say it is doll, it is pot, it is this, it is that, but that is also earth. Is it not?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: And when it is broken, then it is again earth. In any condition it is earth.



Śyāmasundara: This pot and this brick, these are not images then, they are dirt, they are...



*Prabhupāda: Then you make images. You make images, but when you make images, that is also earth. And when it is broken, that is also earth. And originally it is earth. Sarvam khalv idaṁ brahma. The three conditions: formless condition, form, and again, what it is called*-merging. In three conditions it is earth. Aham evāsam evāgre, in the Bhāgavata Kṛṣṇa says, "I existed in the beginning of creation, I maintain the creation, and when the creation is broken, I exist."



Kīrtanānanda: But that's what the Māyāvādīs, they say that all of these forms, all form is māyā.



Prabhupāda: Yes, we say temporary, they say māyā.



Kīrtanānanda: So we also say that there is spiritual world full of form, and that is not-



Prabhupāda: Yes. That they do not know. That is their ignorance. We say wherefrom this form came, who gave this idea? The Vedānta says janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the origin, from the original source it comes.



Kīrtanānanda: So the question is that, these forms that are here, are they actually eternal forms?



Prabhupāda: No. There is eternal..., this is not eternal. This is imitation. Perverted reflection. Reflection is not eternal. As soon as the condition is gone, there is no reflection.



Śyāmasundara: He says that they are not eternal but that the interaction of forms is an eternal process, that one form interacts with another...



Prabhupāda: They cannot explain it. The real is that this form is not eternal, but there is an eternal form. Just like the water. The form of the water on the desert, that is not fact, neither it is eternal. But there is eternal water. Otherwise wherefrom I get this idea here it is water. There is water. Now the presentation of water in the desert, that may be false. The Māyāvādī philosophers they do not know.



Śyāmasundara: But if the universe is rational and everything has a purpose, then this temporary form is also spiritual because it has some kind of purpose.



Prabhupāda: Yes, and that we are utilizing, everything, for the purpose, to make the best use of bad bargain.



Śyāmasundara: Even if someone can't see it, isn't there a purpose?



Prabhupāda: Now why not? Everything can be seen. Without seeing, what is the...? Everything can be seen.



Śyāmasundara: Even if someone, there is someone outside who cannot see it and they're utilizing a car or some object, isn't that object also...



Prabhupāda: Why he cannot see? He's seeing. Why does he say that he cannot see? He's seeing car.



Śyāmasundara: He's seeing it but perhaps he doesn't have the knowledge of what it is.



Prabhupāda: That is different thing. But he's seeing.



Śyāmasundara: So supposing he has no knowledge what it is, but isn't that object still a spiritual...



Prabhupāda: Then he has to take knowledge from person who knows.



Śyāmasundara: My question is, is that object still not spiritual?



Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows or does not know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Fact is fact.



Śyāmasundara: It's still spiritual.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Any object.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no see. He has not eyes to see it, that it is spiritual. He has no knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: So God's plan is unfolding itself everywhere, whether we understand it or not.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. He's unfolding Himself. In Bhagavad*-gītā He is sending His representative for unfolding.



Śyāmasundara: But even in the material world, in the way water erodes the land and trees grow and die, like that. Even though there is no knowledge of the spiritual content aren't they still spiritual? Going on?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Like the same example, just like the earth when it comes to form it is also earth, and if there is no form, that is also earth. The earth remains always. Therefore spiritual energy. The sky is sky, but when there is cloud you'll say there's no big sky, it has become shortened or something like that; you cannot see. So cloud comes, and if there is no cloud, a sky, sky is always there.



Kīrtanānanda: It is both, isn't it Śrīla Prabhupāda, it is both material and spiritual. In essence it is spiritual.



Prabhupāda: Essence is spiritual, that's it. But my imperfect vision makes it material.



Śyāmasundara: His idea, too, is that everything has a purpose, the whole universe is rational.



Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Those who do not agree to accept this, just like so many rascal philosopher, there is no purpose of life, chance, they are rascals.



Śyāmasundara: But his idea is that to understand this reality or this truth is that one must examine all relationships of everything to each other.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are teaching. That original is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's expansion in energy is everything. Parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Just like heat and light; practically whole physical existence is heat and light. So heat and light, there is a fire wherefrom the heat and light comes. Similarly two energies, heat and light, the spiritual and material, they are emanating from the fire, Kṛṣṇa, and everything is made of heat and light, material (indistinct). So one who has got to see, one has got the eyes to see, that is the spiritual, he can see it. And when he hasn't got the eyes to see, he thinks material.



Śyāmasundara: Another way of looking is that Hegel considered that his predecessors were abstract philosophers, in other words they were isolating or severing from the whole into parts and that each part was static, not moving, but he saw that the truth is dynamic, it is always changing that these dynamic or that these isolated factors, he called them moments, momentums, that the total of moments was a moving force, that truth was actually dynamic and always changing, not static.



Prabhupāda: That we can understand from our personal self, that I am the soul, I am existing, and the bodily features changes, changes. Then it is changing, therefore it is material. And the spirit soul, it is existing in all conditions. That is the difference between spirit and matter. Hm.



Pradyumna: I wanted to ask you if the difference between the realisation of what... Everything is spiritual in that sense, but some things have more of an effect when we can see everything spiritually. What is the difference between the Ganges water and the ordinary water to someone who doesn't know that the Ganges water is spiritual? He doesn't have the realisation of it but still he gets spiritual benefit.



Prabhupāda: Yes, one who does not know... Kṛṣṇa, He makes the difference between Ganges water and ordinary water. Because we are giving Ganges water important, but because it is coming out, flowing from the toe of Kṛṣṇa. So, as soon as the other water, it is offered to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, then how it becomes other water? It becomes Ganges water. The one who hasn't got to see, by touching to the lotus feet, this Ganges water will form. So any water when it is touched in Kṛṣṇa's feet, it is Ganges water.



*Pradyumna: You write in Bhagavad*-gītā that by using something in Kṛṣṇa's service it regains it's spiritual qualities.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. We have to see how you can becomes Ganges water. Why you give importance to the Ganges water? Because it is flowing from the toe of Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. So anything comes in contact with Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, it will be Ganges water. Just like we are offering water, generally in India the Ganges water is used for worshiping. Then the worshiping of Kṛṣṇa will stop here in America? Does it mean so? We create Ganges water. As soon as it is touched with Kṛṣṇa, it is Ganges water.



Pradyumna: Yes, but someone, still who doesn't know, if he comes...



Prabhupāda: If someone does not know, one who does not know we are not talking about. This is the issue, that, why Ganges water is important. Because it is flowing from the toe of Kṛṣṇa. That means touching the toe of Kṛṣṇa makes Ganges water important. So, any water when it touches Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet it becomes Ganges water. This is logic. Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. Is it not?



Pradyumna: So you use something material in Kṛṣṇa consciousness...



Prabhupāda: If you have got material idea, then it will... [break] ...so the fire makes it warm, warm, hot, red hot. When it is red hot, you cannot say it is iron, it is actually burning. You touch that red hot iron, you know it is iron rod but it is acting as fire. Similarly, when everything is acting for Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct). It has no other business. Just like in this dictaphone and all these things, you don't use for any other purpose, therefore it is spiritual. Prachurja(?), it is called prachurja. Prachurja means this original function is stopped. That gold. Just like this is wooden, but if you cover it with gold plate, everyone will say, "Golden." (indistinct). It is called prachurja. That means his wooden quality is covered. Therefore it is gold. And another is that when it is completely made of gold. So both ways it is gold. Both ways. Prachurja te and (indistinct), you transform gold into table or you cover it with only gold, they are both ways (indistinct) golden.



Kīrtanānanda: But they're not equal.



Prabhupāda: Well, why not equal? When it is serving the purpose of gold, why it is not equal? Why it is not equal? The gold table, whatever you can do with the gold table, you can do with this gold covered table, don't you think?



Kīrtanānanda: Then in function there is no difference between a tape recorder here used in the service of Kṛṣṇa and one existing in the spiritual sky.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Prachurja(?). Just like Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate. Anyone who is engaged in devotional service, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, he is Brahman. Kṛṣṇa says. Why? Because he is..., that material function has stopped. You are all..., brahma-bhūyāya kalpate because your material function, that illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling, these things are stopped now. It is working in a different way, therefore it is spiritual.



*Devotee: There's one verse in the First Canto of Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam that explains that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and Arjuna after Kṛṣṇa left the earth, returned to the spiritual sky in this same body. Does that indicate that their bodies were so spiritual from spiritual activities that they no longer were material bodies?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is possible. Now, let us talk of this philosopher. If you bring so many questions then we cannot do it.



Śyāmasundara: His idea was that the truth is in the sum of all moments, he called the organic theory of truth. The truth is not static or composed of isolated segments or parts, but it is the sum total of everything and it is constantly changing. So he says that these phenomena or facts of nature or these moments, they are progressing in an evolutionary process according to a course which is prescribed by a universal reason or the world spirit, weltgeist. That the world spirit is unfolding itself through phenomenal events.



Prabhupāda: That means... This is another nonsense proposition. According to the universal reason. So wherefrom the reason comes unless there is a person? That he does not know.



Śyāmasundara: He called it weltgeist, which means world spirit, world mind.



*Prabhupāda: World spirit? That is a person. Unless you accept a person where there is question of reason? That he does not know. He's trying to explain (how could God be) but he has not clear knowledge. But as soon as speaks of reason there must be some person. That reason is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10], under my superintendence, under my guidance, direction. So direction means reason. So as soon as we speak of reason, you must accept the person, the supreme person who is giving this reason, who is directing all these things.



Śyāmasundara: So would you say that all world events, all phenomenon of the world are expressions of this world reason unfolding itself? There is a gradual development.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, there is a plan. After this, this should be done. After this, this should be done. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says superintendence, mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10]? Just like you stand, you get your assistant, "Work like this. Do like this. Do like this. Do like that." So there is a plan, and there is direction. And there is reason also.



Śyāmasundara: What is the purpose of the plan? Is there any ultimate...?



*Prabhupāda: Plan is... The whole plan is that living entities, they're part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other they wanted to enjoy this material world so Kṛṣṇa has given them chance (indistinct). Just like children, some small children, they want to play with something but the father guides so that they may not meet(?), fall down, so many things. "No, no, don't do this. You can play like this." So Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho, I am sitting in everyone's heart, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15], I am giving him intelligence, forgetfulness, everything. So he wanted to play, "All right, give to him the chance to play." But the whole plan is that "Let him play, and again come back." That is Vedic knowledge, that he wants to play, "All right, you play." But when he's fatigued by this nonsense play, he says, "Give up this. Come to me," sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the plan.



Śyāmasundara: So the world is a school house or a school ground where we become educated...



Prabhupāda: Yes, a playground, it is called field. It is called field. Kṣetrajñā. Idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya kṣetram ity abhidhīyate [Bg. 13.2]. Idaṁ śarīram, this body is field, a small field. You wanted to play, "Alright take this field and work." That is going on. You are exhausted with this field, Kṛṣṇa gives another field, "Alright, take this." He gives another field, in this way changing different fields, fields of action, that's all. This body is field of action.



Śyāmasundara: It's not aimless, there's a gradual evolution...



Prabhupāda:. No, there is aim, that Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge also. The *Vedas* are there, Kṛṣṇa is coming, giving knowledge, that this kind of playing will not help you, therefore I, His request, you give up all this playing, come to Me. This is the point.



Śyāmasundara: So Hegel has a method for relating all phenomenal objects to this whole, or to the ...



Prabhupāda: Hegel's method will not do because he has no idea. Hegel's method will not help.



Śyāmasundara: His method is called the dialectic.



Prabhupāda: Dialectic means speculation.



Śyāmasundara: Well, just like...



Prabhupāda: Logic, dialectic, this and that, this and that. What is the meaning of dialectic?



Śyāmasundara: Well, just like he divides it into three parts, the triad...



Prabhupāda: Well, let him do that, but dialectic, what does it mean?



Śyāmasundara: It means the synthesis of two opposing elements, like if you have...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, I understand.



Śyāmasundara: ...the thesis, the antithesis and the synthesis.



Prabhupāda: Mm. That is means argument. You say something, I say something, and then you come to conclusion.



Śyāmasundara: Reconciliation.



Prabhupāda: That's it. Conclusion is there, what is called? Premises, premises, (indistinct) are called premises. Man is mortal. Mr. John is a man, therefore John is mortal.



Śyāmasundara: No, but that's the Aristotelian process, he rejects Aristotle's process.



Prabhupāda: He may reject Aristotle's process, that is..., the real thing is like that, that by your scanty reason, you come to this conclusion, in that (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: His process would be more like: man is immortal. The antithesis is that man is not immortal. So then the synthesis would be the combination, the resolution of those two.



Prabhupāda: What is that synthesis?



Śyāmasundara: The synthesis would be perhaps that man's body is mortal and he's immortal.



Prabhupāda: Perhaps. There is no certainty.



Śyāmasundara: Man's body is mortal and he's immortal.



Prabhupāda: What is this conclusion?



Śyāmasundara: I'm only using it as an example. You said that... You gave a proposal that man is immortal, that John is a man, therefore John is immortal. That's Aristotelian logic, Aristotle's logic.



Prabhupāda: That means his business is to defeat Aristotle's philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that that kind of reasoning is static, that it...



Prabhupāda: That means he... All right, there are two processes. One is inductive and one is deductive. This is deductive process.



Śyāmasundara: It's a syllogism.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: It deals with the "isness" of something.



Prabhupāda: Yes. And there is another process, inductive. Now let us see whether man is mortal or immortal. So go and study. So there are two processes. We say in our Sanskrit language, avaroha panthā, āroha panthā, knowledge coming from up, and knowledge for trying to go up. Ascending process and descending process. So we say that descending process is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: Actually the example you brought out is very good because he says the essential dialectic of all is just this: there is a thesis of being, and an antithesis of nothing. So that, you said man is immortal, that is...



Prabhupāda: Being.



Śyāmasundara: That is being. So the antithesis of that is that man is mortal, or nothing; so how to reconcile those two is...



*Prabhupāda: The reconcile is the body is nothing and the spirit is something. This is synthesis. This is our proposal. The body is nothing, false, but I am real. But those who have no knowledge, they are taking one side. But we are taking two sides: this body is there, this is false, but it is temporary. Although I say I'm not this body, if somebody knocks me I feel pain. So this is temporary. Mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. Due to this body, I am feeling pains and pleasures. So the Buddha philosophy is you make this body nil, then there is no pains and pleasures. But that is imperfect. Because I am there, I will accept another body. So that, death does not mean liberation. Death does not mean liberation. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. You have to accept another body. Liberation means when you are no more in this material world, you go back to spiritual world, that is liberation.



*Śyāmasundara: His idea is that this constant struggle between being and non*-being is what makes the world go round.



Prabhupāda: That is also our proposition. That the spirit: yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. Therefore we are talking of two energies, the superior energy and the inferior energy.



Śyāmasundara: What is the synthesis?



Prabhupāda: The synthesis is that the superior energy, because it has accepted this material energy, therefore the material world's energy is working. Because I have entered into this body, therefore the body's material, it has no movement, but because I am within this body, it is moving. As soon as I shall go away, then this body is a lump of matter.



Śyāmasundara: He says this dialectic, basic dialectic between being and nothing is the basis of becoming, that because these two things are always conflicting, we are always becoming.



Prabhupāda: Becoming, that's... Therefore, the question becoming means I am now in this awkward position, that I am eternal and immortal but I have been entrapped by something which is mortal, therefore I am changing my position. So when I shall stop this taking of different position, I shall remain in my own being, that is the (synthesis).



Śyāmasundara: The previous example that you gave, that John is a man, man is immortal...



Prabhupāda: That is body, that is body, superficial.



Śyāmasundara: He says that that is a static analysis. That only deals with what is...



Prabhupāda: No, that is, that is static means those who are seeing simply the body. No introspection. They're simply, exoteric, no? Exoteric, what is called? Superficial, that is superficial.



Śyāmasundara: Exoteric.



Prabhupāda: So, but Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Although the body is not mortal, still the proprietor of the body is immortal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20].



Śyāmasundara: So that's a combination of thesis and antithesis into synthesis.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So when we perfectly come to that position then you become synthesis.



Śyāmasundara: That's what Hegel is trying to find out, that ultimate synthesis.



Prabhupāda: He has to find out that he has no knowledge to find out; he has to take knowledge from us. We can help him.



Śyāmasundara: But anyway the basic idea is that every fact can only be understood by relating it to its opposite.



Prabhupāda: That is in the relative world because here everything is relative. We cannot understand what is father unless he has got a son, and he cannot understand a son unless he has got a father. So similarly this world is like that. You cannot understand what is white unless there is black. And you cannot understand black unless there is white. So this is relative world, this is not absolute world. In the absolute world the black, white, everything is one.



*Śyāmasundara: Well he says you can find out that absolute world by tracing out all of these black*-white relationships in the material world. Eventually you come to the point of understanding the absolute.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Bhagavad*-gītā says: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births when actually one comes to the understanding of the Absolute, he surrenders unto Me because I am the Absolute. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching to approach the Absolute. That is our...



Śyāmasundara: He says that for instance by relating one idea to its opposite that we discover a different truth about each of them which transcends their separate truths.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is just like this Bhagavad*-gītā says, that dehino 'smin... It says that this dehi, the soul which is within the body, that is immortal and this body is mortal. Two things are there.



Śyāmasundara: Opposites.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So the synthesis transcends their separate beings.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Śyāmasundara: The synthesis transcends their separate beings.



Prabhupāda: Separate means mortal and immortal.



Śyāmasundara: The combination is higher than both of them.



Prabhupāda: Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam.



Śyāmasundara: Then what is the synthesis?



Prabhupāda: Synthesis is to get out, the soul, from this awkward position of matter.



Śyāmasundara: Is that a higher understanding than understanding the soul by itself?



Prabhupāda: Yes, when soul is liberated, that is higher understanding. The soul should be liberated. He is in awkward position within this material world. He is in awkward position.



Śyāmasundara: Does the condition of being entrapped, enhance the understanding of liberation?



Prabhupāda: Yes, unless one understands that he is entrapped, there is no question of liberation. If he's in ignorance that this is the real life... Just like ordinary man, they think this is real life but we are giving education, "No, this is not real life. The real life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



Śyāmasundara: Does someone who has been in prison and then he becomes free, does he appreciate his freedom more than someone who has always been free?



Prabhupāda: So, that's very easy to understand. You can apply the same thing in your life. That is not very difficult. Everyone can understand.



Śyāmasundara: So to enhance the understanding of freedom is it, if someone...



Prabhupāda: You come to the platform of freedom.



Śyāmasundara: But say one has always been free. His understanding...



Prabhupāda: No, why? So long as we are entrapped by this material body you are not free.



Śyāmasundara: No but for instance, just an example, there is someone who has always been free in the spiritual world and he comes into the material world...



Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes for a mission, just like Kṛṣṇa comes. He is not born. He is not born like a materialist. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee also comes, he is also not born. They come with a mission.



Śyāmasundara: I mean if someone is in the spiritual world, he falls down into the material world...



Prabhupāda: Falls down is different.



Śyāmasundara: ...yes, and then he becomes again released...



Prabhupāda: Again he is free.



Śyāmasundara: Is his understanding after release higher than the previous?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Because he has learned something.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Learned something, has become free; just like Nārada is giving history of his past life to Vyāsadeva. You have not read it, conversation between Nārada and Vyāsadeva? He knows perfectly well that I was a maidservant's son and in this way I have become free. That is freedom. Anyone knows. As soon as he comes to spiritual consciousness, he knows, "Oh, I was this in abominable condition, now I am decent(?) position. (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: So it's in the... Is it good if someone comes to the material world and then they leave? I mean is the fact that they should come here...



*Prabhupāda: It is not good. Then where is the question of taking him back to Godhead? It is not good. But if someone falls down somehow or other... But not that those who are coming with a mission, they are fallen down. When the governor goes to the prison house to inspect, it does not mean he's also prisoner. If the prisoners think, "Oh, the governor has come here, therefore he's also one of us." That is not. Therefore it is forbidden, guruṣu nara*-matir, you never should think of guru as ordinary man. Guruṣu nara-matir, vaiṣṇave jāti buddhiḥ, arcye śilā-dhīr, if you think that is stone, "Ah, we are worshiping stone," these are forbidden. Actually they are not. Arcye śilā-dhīr, guruṣu nara-mati, vaiṣṇave jāti buddhiḥ. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11], because he's coming just like ordinary man. Not ordinary man, as man, so people are thinking, "Ah, He's a maybe little powerful. That's all." (indistinct). That is ignorance.



Śyāmasundara: Hegel's idea is actually not too much different than ours because he says that...



Prabhupāda: It is very much different, (indistinct) of difference. He'll have to go through millions of births to come to our understanding.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. In one sense he believes that the absolute truth is always changed, is always changing and yet is also permanent.



Prabhupāda: Absolute truth, how can you change?



Śyāmasundara: But it is also permanent at the same time.



Prabhupāda: No, that means he does not know what is Absolute Truth. Absolute cannot be changed.



Śyāmasundara: Just like Kṛṣṇa is walking, moving, that means changing...



Prabhupāda: That does not means He is not Absolute Truth.



Śyāmasundara: At the same time it is permanent, eternal.



Prabhupāda: That we are. We, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we are moving in this material body, but we are permanent. That is (indistinct). But Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Then it will be avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11], a rascaldom.



Śyāmasundara: He says it appears that there is conflict between contradictory factors but...



Prabhupāda: But everything will be coincided in Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: The whole process is eternal and permanent.



Prabhupāda: Just like so many radius, and it, everything middle points. You expand, you go, long, long, long.



Śyāmasundara: Even when the wheel turns the center...



Prabhupāda: The spoke. Spoke, and what it is called? Hub. Hub.



Śyāmasundara: ...remains constant. That's his whole idea of history.



Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavata. Kṛṣṇa says, aham evāsam evāgre. All expansions take place but He remains the same.



Śyāmasundara: Does it, does the spirit, is it the divine idea being actualized by the evolution of history and social, biological and everything...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate. That is explained in Bhagavad*-gītā, hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate. Can you find out this verse, hetunānena, where is the Bhagavad-gītā?



Śyāmasundara: But if the truth is unfolding itself in history, in biology, in sociology...



Prabhupāda: Everything. Center is Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: So all events are leading toward what?



Prabhupāda: Then all, everything is emanating from Kṛṣṇa and after some manifestation, temporary, again going to Kṛṣṇa. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].



Śyāmasundara: So everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa and going toward Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Going to Kṛṣṇa. Going back. In the mean time there is some manifestation.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. So the unfolding of history is simply a...



Prabhupāda: Repetition. That's all. History repeats.



Śyāmasundara: He also, that's his idea, history (indistinct).



Pradyumna: Hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate.



Prabhupāda: Ah. What is the first line?



*Pradyumna: Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10].



Prabhupāda: What is the meaning? (indistinct)



Pradyumna: Material nature is controlled by Me. Under My direction.



Kīrtanānanda: Material nature is working under My direction.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: Carācaram?



Pradyumna: Moving and not moving.



*Prabhupāda: Moving and not moving, they are not self*-sufficient. They are under direction.



Śyāmasundara: He only sees the movement and not the mover.



Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore insufficient.



Pradyumna: It says, "This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kuntī, producing all the moving and unmoving beings, and by its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again."



Prabhupāda: Is there any explanation?



Śyāmasundara: So that's enough for today. Tomorrow we'll take (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: The conclusion is that Mr. Hegel is not in perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: No. At least he sees a purpose in the universe.



Prabhupāda: That's alright. He's trying to see in his own capacity; but he is not perfect.



*Kīrtanānanda: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break*-after this Śyāmasundara is dictating a few extra notes:)



Śyāmasundara: In this regard, later Śrīla Prabhupāda said that a man who has fever and a man who has never had fever, they enjoy... When the man who has fever recovers he enjoys equally with the man who never had fever. Therefore someone who has fallen into the material world, if he is liberated, he enjoys equally with the man who has never fallen into the material world. Neither he enjoys more, for instance, that he has learned some lesson so therefore he enjoys more his freedom, nor does he enjoy less than the man who has never fallen. [break]



Prabhupāda: Well, everything is the expression of spirit.



Śyāmasundara: So everything is art?



Prabhupāda: Well, what is his definition of art?



Śyāmasundara: Art is the expression of the spirit in sensuous form.



*Prabhupāda: That is there. We are worshiping Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa, there is love of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, but that is sensuous, sensual. The gopīs are coming to Kṛṣṇa, lusty. Kṛṣṇa is beautiful, they are attracted. So these are there: sensuous, beautiful, art.



Śyāmasundara: What about a tree? We say a tree is the artful display of absolute.



Prabhupāda: Yes, tree, tree is also art. Because in a place, if you find so many green trees to (indistinct) nice. And in a barren land, in a desert, you don't think nice. Therefore there is art.



Śyāmasundara: But the barren desert is not art?



Prabhupāda: That is also art in a different way.



Śyāmasundara: So everything is artful.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So the second expression of the absolute mind, he calls religion. He says that "This is the absolute expressed as representations in our consciousness."



Prabhupāda: This is (indistinct) mean to accept God. Does he mean like that?



Śyāmasundara: Yes, but he means it as the opposite of sensuous form but as something intangible, something you can only relate to...



Prabhupāda: No. Intangible it may be at the present moment, that is another thing. But religion means understanding of God. Otherwise there is no religion. What do you mean by religion? First of all, you must define.



Śyāmasundara: What he means by religion is that the objects of our religious consciousness are mere representations in your consciousness, nothing more, but they are not tangible, like...



Prabhupāda: So then he has got no clear definition of religion. We define religion, is to abide by the laws of God. That is religion. God says, "You do this." When you do it, that is religion.



Śyāmasundara: So you would say that the absolute expresses itself in the laws of God...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is religion. And should the absolute gives you direction, and if you follow that direction, then you are religious. You cannot create religion.



Śyāmasundara: That's a tangible...



Prabhupāda: That is tangible, that is tangible. That is every religion, actually. Just like in Christian religion, "Thou shall not kill." That is the order. So if you kill, then you are not religious. When you do not kill, then you are religious. So therefore it is very difficult to find out real Christian because everyone is killing, violating the law of God. In one sense there is no Christian.



Prabhupāda: And every religion means connection with God.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that the highest form that the Absolute manifests itself, the highest mode, is in philosophy. He says that this combines art and religion and it synthesizes them so it is highest, philosophy.



Prabhupāda: Philosophy means that there is some order of God. Just like God says "Thou shall not kill." Now if you want to kill, then you must present your philosophy why you are killing, why you are violating the order of God, or why you are accepting the order of God. This is philosophy, not dry speculation.



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is highest because it can...



Prabhupāda: It is highest. But now God says, "Thou shalt not kill." Then you stop killing. That's all right, be religious but did you understand?



Śyāmasundara: Oh, why I (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: Why I shall not kill. That is philosophy. Jñāna, vijñānam(?). Just like devotee, he accept Kṛṣṇa or God, that's all right. He's also devotee but one understands actually what is Kṛṣṇa, therefore he is very dear devotee. Madhyama*-adhikārī. He is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, the lowest stage of devotee. He's as good as the other devotees. He does not like to... Just like gopīs, they are not philosophers and they're, neither they knew that Kṛṣṇa is God, but they loved Kṛṣṇa, that is highest. Without any consideration. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Whatever you may be, I love you."



Śyāmasundara: Last time we discussed Hegel, you said, "Yes, philosophy is highest but even higher than philosophy is the practice of philosophy."



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practice as I say, the gopīs. They're actually loving.



Śyāmasundara: They were practising the result of philosophy.



Prabhupāda: Enjoying the result of philosophy. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: I guess that's a good place to stop for today. We'll try to finish Hegel tomorrow. [break] First we'll be discussing the ethical, social and political philosophy of Hegel. He believed that one's basic right was to be a person and respect others as persons.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the philosophy of killing animals?



Śyāmasundara: Well, animals are considered as things and persons have the dominion over things.



Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal philosophy. So the basic principle is this, one has right to be.



Śyāmasundara: One has the right to be a person.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And respect others as persons.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So why do they not respect others' person. The animal is also person. What is this philosophy? That is the defect, that one is a rascal and he is taking the position of a philosopher. That is the defect. He's a rascal number one. He does not respect others' individuality, and he philosophizes that ones individuality should be observed.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are three basic rights. The first is property rights; the second is the right of contract; the third right is the right of redress of wrongs; in the sense that crimes should be punished.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But it is not crime to kill an animal? The animal has no right to live independently?



Śyāmasundara: They say that the standard of what is right is the universal or the rational will...



Prabhupāda: Is that rational, that another living entity like me should be killed for my benefit, for satisfying my tongue?



Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that the animal is not in the same category as myself because it has no...



Prabhupāda: So that's alright; then might is right? Hitler is right? When Hitler, Hitler kills the Jews, he's right? He thinks that they are not in my category.



Śyāmasundara: The animal cannot understand philosophy.



Prabhupāda: What does he understand of philosophy? He is mad; he is less than an animal. He does not understand philosophy. He does not know that the animal has also a soul, the animal has also life. Then he should be killed first.



*Śyāmasundara: He said that one standard whether something is right or wrong is that if it is self*-contradictory, if somebody's action is self-contradictory.



*Prabhupāda: He is actually self*-contradictory. He is going to give right to others that he does not want to give the same right to the animals. That is self-contradictory.



Śyāmasundara: He uses the example of someone who doesn't want anyone to steal something from him but he steals something from others.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Śyāmasundara: And that is self*-contradictory.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, self*-contradictory action is here, that I don't want to be killed but I kill another animal. This is self-contradictory. Supporting by some nonsense philosophy. I don't want to be killed but I kill other, this is self-contradictory.



*Śyāmasundara: He would say a self*-contradictory act is irrational.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Is not acting according to the rational will.



Prabhupāda: He is irrational and he is taking the position of a philosopher.



Śyāmasundara: Another one of his ideas is that conflict creates progress. So that a man kills the animal and progresses.



Prabhupāda: Then I kill him and make progress?



Śyāmasundara: Yes, that is the law of nature.



Prabhupāda: Then kill him and make progress?



Śyāmasundara: He says that acting in accordance with a conscience is the right type of activity.



*Prabhupāda: The conscience, the so*-called conscience is created. You go on killing, your conscience will be killing conscience, "It is all right." The thief becomes accustomed to steal, the conscience will say, "Yes, I must steal. It is my right." So you can create your conscience in that way. By association, by misguiding, they also create their conscience. Just like the Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are killing, creating a conscience, "Yes, killing is all right." In the religion it is forbidden, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are creating another conscience, "It is right." The conscience is created by association. By good association, conscience is the good conscience and by bad association, a bad conscience is created. So there is no such standard as conscience. Conscience means discriminating power.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is an absolute conscience, which means pure rationality. Whatever is purely rational is conscience.



*Prabhupāda: Pure rationality is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is purest. Unless one comes to that standard, the so*-called conscience, so-called philosophy is of no value.



Śyāmasundara: He says that punishment for crime is justified because it vindicates justice and restores rights.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore when one is killing an animal, he should be prepared for being killed. That will be justice. That is Manu's... Manu*-saṁhitā says that when a man, murderer is hanged, that is complete justice, complete justice. That is to save him, because without being hanged in this life, he if he escapes justice, then he will have to suffer next life very severely. So to save him from so many troubles in the next life, if he is killed, I mean to say, hanged, in this life, then he is saved. Therefore the king who is hanging him is doing him justice. Life for life. If this is the justice, then why one should not be prepared of being killed because he is killing an animal? That is justice. That is Vedic philosophy. In Vedic philosophy, when an animal is killed, it is said that "You are animal, you are being sacrificed before goddess Kālī, so you get next chance to become a human being." That means he is given a lift from the evolutionary process to come to the human being because he is giving his life innocent, and one man wants to kill him, he will be killed. So because you are being killed before the deity, you get next chance human being and you have got the right to kill him. This is kālī-da, mantra. So any sane man will understand that "I am going to be killed by him so why shall I take the risk."



Śyāmasundara: I observe in nature that everything is killing something else for eating so it seems only rational that I should be able to eat animals.



*Prabhupāda: Well, that also accepted in the Vedic philosophy, jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One life is, one living being is food for another living being. But that does not mean that you shall kill your son and eat, and it will be supported by the society. That is discrimination, that is conscience. You can say that "I must eat some, another living entity. That is by nature's law. So I produce my children and I kill them and I eat them so that the population problem will be solved." You can say that. Will you be accepted? So therefore there must be discrimination. That you have to eat another living being, that is nature's law, but if you eat fruit, you don't kill the tree. You take the fruit. If you eat vegetables, you take, still it is growing, and that is a factually not killing. But if you eat animals, you are killing. Actually he is being dead. So things should be done intelligently so that... The word is to make the best use of a bad bargain. So our philosophy is that although you can take that, although it is not killing, it is taking fruits, flowers and vegetables, it is taking from him, it is not killing, and we are offering to Kṛṣṇa and so if there is any responsibility, it is Kṛṣṇa's responsibility. We take the prasāda. Therefore we have no such responsibility and that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhuñjate te tv agham pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13]. Anyone who is cooking for himself, he is taking all responsibility for sinful activity even if he is a vegetarian, it doesn't matter. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. But if he takes the remnants of yajña-we are offering Kṛṣṇa daily*-this is performing yajña. So we are taking the remnants of yajña. This is our philosophy. We are not taking directly. If I take directly, either a vegetarian or non-vegetarian, then I become responsible. Sinful. This is our philosophy. The law is there, but we have to tackle things very intelligently.



Śyāmasundara: So far the social ethics are concerned, he says that these begin with the family, then they go to the society or community, and then finally the state. He says that the family is the single entity and is the thesis. The individual finds his real nature only in the presence of others.



*Prabhupāda: What about the family of the animals? They have got family. What does he say? The tiger has got family*-he has got his wife, cats.



Śyāmasundara: When man finds himself in the presence of his family members he is able to understand himself by relating with others. So...



Prabhupāda: Relations with others, just like you are a family man, you don't encroach upon other families, this is society law. So the animals, they have got their family. Family, what do you mean by family, husband, wife, also two children, that is family. So the animals, they have got. So why you encroach upon the animal family? What is his answer?



Śyāmasundara: Families, when they relate together in communities, are related by certain laws or rights, that one voluntarily abstains from killing and stealing from other families so that no one will do the same to him.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So but...



Prabhupāda: This is not applicable to the animal family?



Śyāmasundara: No.



Prabhupāda: This is philosophy. (chuckles) What kind of philosopher he is? Our, Lord Buddha preached that if you feel pain when somebody pinches you, you should not pinch (them). He does not say that you should not pinch a human being. Therefore his dharma is ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. This is philosophy, something. What is this philosophy? Nonsense philosophy. That you protect your family but you eat the animal family. This Lord Buddha's philosophy has got meaning, but where is the meaning of this philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he doesn't consider the animal kingdom at all.



*Prabhupāda: And he is a rascal. He is a rascal. A philosopher must be all*-pervading(?). This is (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Yes, he purports to cover everything. He says that his philosophy is complete, that it covers everything.



Prabhupāda: Then complete. (indistinct) complete.



Śyāmasundara: He says that one understands himself the more he relates to others, so eventually as he relates to the whole universe, then he understands himself perfectly.



*Prabhupāda: Universe means his brother. And white men. That's all. (laughter) That is his universe. There is a Bengali verse, (Bengali), "My elder brother is good man, I am good man. All bad men (?). This philosophy. (Bengali*-repeats saying).



Śyāmasundara: He gets as far as the state, he says that one relates with all of the citizens in the state but it is nearly impossible to relate with the citizens of another state. Therefore disputes must be settled by war between states. So he clarifies war as a means of progressing.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. War also, we, Vedic philosophy, we say, dharma*-yuddha. Just like Arjuna was encouraged, dharma-yuddha. So everything has got his use. War has got also use, you(?). But that is progress?



Śyāmasundara: Yes, progress comes about through conflict of opposites. So that as states fight each other, the one that comes out victorious is the most progressive, advanced state.



Prabhupāda: When the war should be declared? Is there any philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't believe in peace; he says that peace is a dream.



Prabhupāda: Peace cannot be possible within this material world, especially without God consciousness, there cannot be any peace. That is a fact.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the state, I will just read a segment of what he says about the state: "The state is the realization of the ethical idea. The true state is the ethical whole and the realization of freedom. The state is the march of God through the world.



Prabhupāda: March of?



Śyāmasundara: God.



Prabhupāda: God.



Śyāmasundara: Through the world. The state is an organism. The state is real and its reality consists of the interests of the whole being realized in particular ends. The state is the world which the spirit has made for itself. One often speaks of the wisdom of God in nature, but one must not believe that the physical world of nature is higher than the world of spirit. Just as spirit is superior to nature, so the state is superior to the physical life. We must therefore worship the state as the manifestation of the divine on earth.



*Prabhupāda: That is very nice idea. We agree to that. Therefore we have to see what is the duty of the state. It is accepted that the state is the representative of God. Therefore the state's first business is to make citizens God*-conscious. That is the state's first business. Any state who is neglecting this duty, he immediately becomes unqualified to hold the state office, either he may be president or the king. Because if it is admitted, the king... We say that the king's name is naradeva, God in human form, and king is offered that respect. There are... King is respected, why? Because he is to be considered God's representative. So therefore, as God's representative... Just like we are working as God's representative. We present ourselves as God's representative, Kṛṣṇa's representative, then what is our duty? What is our business? What we are doing? We are trying to lead others to God consciousness. That is the proof that I am God's representative. I am not teaching them anything else. I am teaching everything, that is duty, but this is my prime duty. Similarly, if the state or the state executive head, the president or the king is taken, accepted as God's representative, his first and foremost duty is to train the citizens to become God conscious. If he's lacking in that duty, he's not fit to become executive head, king of the... What does he say about that?



Śyāmasundara: He also agrees that the monarchy, constitutional monarchy is recommended to head the state.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And that he fulfills the universal will, he's simply the executor of the world's spirit.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That's nice. That is the system, Vedic system. A king must educate.



Śyāmasundara: But because he was so vague, this left room for someone like Hitler to come in and use this philosophy...



Prabhupāda: Well, Hitler came not as a king, he came as a usurper. He's not king. That is going on that any rascal, somehow or other he gets power, he becomes the head. But he has no training how to become actually the protector of the citizens. Therefore after the whole world is in trouble. He whimsically declares war and involve all the citizens, implicate. Therefore this support to monarchy is better in this sense that a person, by saint to saint, or by disciplic succession, or hereditary succession, he can be trained and if one man is trained nicely, he can govern over hundreds and thousands inhabitants(?) very nicely.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that in a well*-ordered monarchy, the law alone has objective power to which the monarch has got to affix the subjective "I will". In other words the law alone rules, the king is simply the order-supplier for the law.



*Prabhupāda: That is now, democracy, constitutional king. He is simply show*-bottle. But if the king has got complete power and if he is trained, he is God conscious king, rājarṣi... Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ, the Bhagavad-gītā, the Fourth Chapter it is said, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. The saintly king understood it. Not ordinary man. Therefore a king, monarch is supposed to be saintly. He must understand the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā and he should introduce educational system so that people may understand Bhagavad-gītā, or the science of God. That is the first duty of the state, of the king. And in another place the Bhāgavata says that one should not become father, one should not become the head of the state, one should not become guru, if he cannot save persons from the imminent danger of death. So we are, we are now in entanglement, repeated birth and death, it is the state duty to stop the citizens' repeated birth and death.



Śyāmasundara: He says it is the purpose of the state and king to apply the moral law.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the duty of the king, that is the king but the modern democracy state, they're simply concerned with the tax. That's all. But in the śāstra it is said that if you keep the citizens blind in the matter of morality and immorality and levy tax only, you will be satisfied with tax, then you will also go to ruin and they also go to ruin.



Śyāmasundara: Ruin.



Prabhupāda: Yes, ruination. Yes. Because he is taking all the sins. Tax means it is sinfully earned, and he's taking the money.



Śyāmasundara: So he gets it worse than anyone.



Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll be the worst sufferer, in this life and next life. These things I have discussed in Mahārāja Prthu's. You cannot, if you keep the, just like I am accepting disciples so I am taking responsibility of the sinful reactions. So similarly a king levying taxes, that means that he will take the share, the sinful or pious life of the citizens. Therefore if he keeps the citizens pious life, then he will be profited and citizens will be profited. Otherwise he will go to hell and the citizens will go to hell. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā. One blind man leading another blind man. So this is nice philosophy, that this is not the right philosophy, that the state head, the president or the king or whatever his name is, he is the representative of God. Therefore his duty is to train the citizens to become God conscious, pious, without any sinful life. But these big, big state head, just like in our country, Dr. Radhakrishnan is supposed to be a very great philosopher, and what he was doing? He was sanctioning to keep slaughterhouse. So he is philosopher and he had no sense that "I am the state head. I am sanctioning slaughterhouse. And I am passing as a philosopher." And now he is suffering, you have seen?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: You see. He is lost, he is a dead man, living dead man. He cannot (indistinct).(laughter) He's finished. This philosopher for money's sake, he occupied the presidential post and maintained slaughterhouse. He is a philosopher.



Śyāmasundara: So he got the reaction.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is his opportunity, he's finishing his sinful life in this life.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, you said, that's right, you said it was good for him that he was suffering.



Prabhupāda: Yes, it is good for him. Because he is fortunate that his sinful reactions are being finished in this life. Otherwise he would have to drag it, he would have to continue, and he might have been a dog or cat, like that. So it is good for him. I said that. It is good for him.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that we rise up to the level of the state but then each state is independent and not subordinate to other states.



Prabhupāda: Independent, no. Independ..., that is also another contradictory philosophy. If the state is representative of God, then how he's independent? That is less intelligent. He's speaking contradiction. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that no state is subordinate to any other state.



Prabhupāda: That is another thing. If you all, my disciples, you are working under my instruction, so there is cooperation but not that other's order is obligatory to me. Similarly, one state is representative of God, another (is) representative of God, so they are not independent, dependent. That can be applied any field. Citizen, everyone is independent but everyone is dependent on the state laws. Similarly every state may be independent in their individual capacity, but he is dependent on God's order. That is the position. That is the perfection.



Śyāmasundara: But whenever there are disputes arising between states, then there must be war.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is natural. Just like in our ordinary lives, citizens, they disagree. They go to the court.



Śyāmasundara: But here he says there's no higher body between two, jurisdiction between states, that it can only be settled by war. There's no court or higher authority for judging between states.



Prabhupāda: There is higher body if there is religion, if there is philosophy, if there is learned section, brāhmaṇas, Kṛṣṇa conscious people. There is higher authority.



Śyāmasundara: He says there's no potent world authority.



Prabhupāda: No, you have killed all these things, but the system is there. Therefore the brahminical culture is above the kṣatriya culture. Therefore this division must be there; *brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The administrators, the kings, they are kṣatriyas, but above them the brāhmaṇas are there. But because there is no brahminical class*-they have all killed them-therefore he says there is no authority.



Śyāmasundara: Just like between presidents, Rāma's kingdom and Rāvaṇa's kingdom, there was no judge to settle the argument, there must have been war.



Prabhupāda: No, the judge, judge was Rāmacandra Himself. He is God.



Śyāmasundara: But there was war to settle it.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So Hegel glorifies this war, he says, "There is an ethical element in war."



*Prabhupāda: No, war, we also say dharma*-yuddha, dharma-yuddha. Just like battle of Kurukṣetra is concluded by Sañjaya that, what is that? Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ [Bg. 18.78]. Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ, he said to Dhṛtarāṣṭra, "My dear sir, I think the side on which Kṛṣṇa is there, he'll be victorious." So actually even there is war, the party who is God conscious, they"ll be victorious. Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. What is that verse? Eh?



Śyāmasundara: What about between America and Germany, for instance? Neither one of them were God conscious.



*Prabhupāda: Then it is demonic. This is not justified war, this is where two demons, we fight, just like cats and dogs fight. That's all. But there is, according to Vedic literature, yuddha, dharma*-yuddha.



Kīrtanānanda: What does that mean?



*Prabhupāda: Dharma*-yuddha, on behalf of supreme God, that is called dharma-yuddha. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, they are not for fighting, but Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, I am on your side, you fight." That is dharma-yuddha. And therefore Arjuna became victorious because God was on his side. That is dharma-yuddha. So if you declare war on the principle of God consciousness, that war is justified and you will become victorious. This is the conclusion.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that our everyday life, everything is a state of war and that this is a purifying, this conflict is purifying, that it has an ethical element and he makes the statement, "By this war, ethical health in the nation is preserved and their finite aims uprooted. War protects the people from the corruption which an everlasting peace would bring upon it. He says that to be in a state of peace is corrupt, and when there's always a war that it purifies the country, makes it more ethical, moral.



Prabhupāda: Then he wants continuous war?



Śyāmasundara: Something like that; he glorifies war, says that it makes a nation healthy to have war.



*Prabhupāda: Then Hitler was first*-class man by his standard.



Śyāmasundara: He says that progress only comes through conflict.



Prabhupāda: That means, according to his philosophy, people should always engage themselves in war, because they will be progressing?



Śyāmasundara: He says that it makes for progress to be in conflict. Competition, conflict, this creates progress.



Prabhupāda: Competition, that is another thing. But if you say that war settles up morality, ethical law, then... Without any aim. We say yes, war may be there or must be there, but the party who has got Kṛṣṇa's support, they are victorious, they are right party. This is our philosophy. We don't say that war should be stopped, war must be there, because this world is material world, there must be war, opposite elements. Now, the party who has got Kṛṣṇa's support, that party... That is the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. We don't say stop war, but we say if you fight, fight on behalf of Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: So his statement that progress comes through conflict is true, but in the conflict you should take the right side.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real progress. Right side means on which side Kṛṣṇa is. That is the instruction on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra.



Kīrtanānanda: But what is it that we can make progress on? He is simply thinking in terms of material advancement.



Śyāmasundara: Ethical advancement, he says that there's an ethical element...



Prabhupāda: He has no ethical principle. He does not know what is ethics. Otherwise he would not have supported that animal killing. He does not know what is ethics. He speaks something (indistinct) only. That's all. There is no practical application.



Śyāmasundara: What about the statement that "Peace is stagnation"?



Prabhupāda: Well, nobody is in stagnation, everyone is working. Stagnation means, just like a stagnant water, it has no flow. That is stagnation. But who is, he is not, everyone is acting.



Śyāmasundara: So there is no peace anywhere.



Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not stagnation. Just like we, we have taken to Kṛṣṇa, it is not stagnant. We was going on. We are sending preachers, so we are not stagnant. So the question of stagnation does not come anywhere.



Kīrtanānanda: In the Vedic culture, the thing that keeps it from becoming stagnant is the presence of the brāhmaṇa. The brāhmaṇa community, they give purpose so that all of the other orders, they can remain just as much involved as if they were involved in war because this kind of society that Hegel is describing where there is no brāhmaṇa, there is simply this materialism. So they require war or else they become stagnant. Our answer is that they require the brāhmaṇa community directions so that everyone can work with full energy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So would you say that we are in a state of peace or a state of war?



Prabhupāda: Real peace... That definition we don't accept, "Stagnation is peace." We don't accept that. Our peace is working for Kṛṣṇa. That is peace.



*Suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā mām.

*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



*So our work is there. We are educating people that Kṛṣṇa is your friend. This is not stagnation, this is the real work, that we take Kṛṣṇa as the supreme enjoyer, so whatever enjoyable things are there, we are supplying to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, you take all nice foods. Kṛṣṇa you live nicely, you take all women, you enjoy rāsa*-līlā, sixteen thousand wives. He is the supreme enjoyer, He should be given all enjoyment. That is our... [break]



Śyāmasundara: The material nature, māyā?



Prabhupāda: Well, we don't fight with māyā. Those who are under the clutches are being kicked by māyā, they are struggling. We have nothing to do. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. Māyā does not disturb us, so where is the fight? (laughter) Those who are being kicked by māyā, they have got fight. Just like the police. Police is for chastisement, but he has nothing to do with honest men. Let there be police, what is the trouble. Those who are criminals, they have got fight with the police. But we are not criminals.



Śyāmasundara: Then he describes world history to be the supreme tribunal or the higher judge of events. He says that what actually happens to a state or a people represents the final judgment as to the worth of a national policy or a course of action, that the history will bear out...



Prabhupāda: Alright, the state is imperfect; then there is no such question.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the history will bear out whether a policy is good or bad. For instance the Roman Empire came, and then it fell. So their policy is...



Prabhupāda: So we say that any empire will come, and fail. Without studying history. Because godless empire will never exist.



Śyāmasundara: He says that each state represents some phase of the absolute truth, that it expresses itself in the temporal events or the march of time.



Prabhupāda: We accept that without historical reference, we say unless one state or king is representative of God, that is not state. That is a group, that is not state. Just like even in aboriginals, they have also group. They have also group. That is not state. I think there must be some distinction...



Devotee: Tribe.



Prabhupāda: Yes, tribe and state.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the dominant nation in any epoch represents the dominant phase of the absolute idea during that time. Just like now America is the dominant nation in the world so that the dominant phase of the truth is being expressed through America.



Prabhupāda: Therefore Mr. Nixon supported Pakistan. (laughter) Everyone knew, all other nations knew that this Pakistan is creating havoc, genocide, they're killing innocent men in Bangladesh, and Nixon, Mr. Nixon publicly supported. And still he is angry about India because India is the richest country. He has withdrawn all help. So he is supporter of mischievous activities.



Śyāmasundara: Just like before, the British were the dominant nation and then again some other country would be the dominant nation, he says that this dominant nation expresses at the time what the, the absolute truth expressing itself in time.



Prabhupāda: Yes, the dominant nation is, it is connected with the absolute truth that up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, five thousand years ago, the king of Hastināpur, they were dominating the whole world. Because Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira were actually representing God, therefore their domination was possible. Now, that being lost, there are so many small states, they are not God conscious, therefore fighting each other, that's all, like cats and dogs. But it is a fact that the Vedic culture kings like Mahārāja Rāmacandra, Mahārāja Prthu, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, and later on some other kings also, they were actually representative of God, so there was no trouble. One king was ruling all over the world.



Śyāmasundara: Is the fact that America is now the dominant nation also God's will?



Prabhupāda: Yes, that I say, because some of the Americans are Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Śyāmasundara: So what is the meaning, then, that America is the dominant nation?



Prabhupāda: America is dominant now. Actually most of you don't support Mr. Nixon. But he is on the head. So how he has become head, that is mysterious. Because people, when you study the people, they do not support him. There are so many, I mean to say, procession against, protesting against Mr. Nixon's policy and so many things. But still he is on the head, of the executive power. So there is something mysterious. Actually, the present government does not represent the others. That is everywhere. So, how we can understand that this nation is good or bad by the state behavior. Just like we issued that statement that these Americans not... These Americans were following the Nixon philosophy. There was a cartoon, that in our temple nobody is coming.



Kīrtanānanda: Nobody is what?



Prabhupāda: Nobody is coming.



Devotee: India.



Prabhupāda: In India. Because there was a feeling against the Americans. People are going to the ambassadors and place, the consulate, they are protesting, the police was there, very good. Eh? Against, against killing, counter feelings against the Americans doing the work. So I issued one statement that these Americans, they are devotees, they have nothing to do with politics. So at the present moment (indistinct), actually what is the American nation, simply by seeing the state we cannot give our judgment that this is the American nation, because there are many who are not in agreement with the state power. But they are posing themselves, that we represent America.



Śyāmasundara: He says that it is God's will that a certain nation will be dominant at a certain time, so I'm just wondering what is the reason that God has made America dominant.



Prabhupāda: That is his philosophy. He says. God does not say. He has no connection with God that he can speak on behalf of God, "It is God's will, God's..." (indistinct), like this?



Śyāmasundara: No, he says that whatever is, is right, and that this good and this reason in its most concrete form is God. God governs the world.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That also we admit because in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam, mama tejo 'ṁśa-sambhavam, whenever there is some extraordinary power, it should be understood that it is derived partially from God's power. That we accept. So the dominance of American nation is God's favor. We can accept that. Now, if you put on the head representative like Mr. Nixon or some other, then it will deteriorate. If you spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness and if you make your president Kṛṣṇa conscious, then actually you will be God's empowered nation. Let the president become Kṛṣṇa conscious man. Why not? You are American, you can also capture the post. You can become senator, you can be congressman. So educate the American public (in) Kṛṣṇa consciousness, elect Kṛṣṇa conscious president and actually you will be God's favored nation is there. You have got the opportunity and the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also in your hand, now it is up to you to utilize it and become actually the leaders of the world. That was my mission: "I shall go to America, and educate them, and they, if they follow, the whole world will follow." And that is coming to be true. You are all young men, it is in your hand. Now you make policy in that way. Just like the communists. A few communists, Stalin, Lenin, they formed a big communist party, now it is predominating all over the world. Similarly, you are so many nice, young, flowers, intelligent young Americans you have understood the philosophy, and now it is up to you to spread this "ism". You don't become stagnant-"Now I have understood Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I shall sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."



Śyāmasundara: Peace.



Prabhupāda: No, we don't want that. Go, spread, preach, and make your nation glorified.



Śyāmasundara: He discusses one more topic, aesthetics, or what is the idea of beauty. He says that beauty is the absolute idea shining through to the sense world, or the spirit shining through to the sense forms.



Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore our Kṛṣṇa is the most beautiful. That beauty. Because Kṛṣṇa is most beautiful. Just like I said the other day that the nice bird was chirping, I say Kṛṣṇa is speaking. So reservoir of all pleasure, all beauty. So beauty is appreciable because it is one of the qualifications of Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: So beauty in the material world is Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa...



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's perverted reflection. Just like now the sky is clear, now the sunshine is bright, but even if the sky is covered by clouds, you will understand it is daytime because the glaring, shining of the sun is still to be understood. Similarly, whatever little beauty we find in this material world, that is a perverted reflection of Kṛṣṇa's beauty.



Śyāmasundara: We still understand it's beauty, but not very much.



Prabhupāda: Yes, not very much.



Śyāmasundara: Just a few more minutes and then it's finished. He says that art is a combination of spiritual content and sensuous form, that this is really art, that the artist should try to form spiritual content with these material...



Prabhupāda: That we are doing, whenever we are painting picture, art, music, we are praising Kṛṣṇa with it. Our music, our painting, our anything, we center Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: He says that of all arts, that music and poetry are the highest.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, so therefore we write, Vyāsadeva has written so many nice poetries in praise of Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā is writing, cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. All sages, they write praise of Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Poetry.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, poetry. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Uttama-śloka, He is described by first*-class poetry. And a devotee is supposed to be poet also, among the twenty-six qualification. So all of us writing, glorifying Kṛṣṇa. Poetry or prose doesn't matter. Anything sublime is called poetry, not that it has to be written in meter. Everything sublime is called poetry.



Śyāmasundara: Then actually he talks about the philosophy of religion. He says that the absolute manifests itself in representations. In other words pure thought is couched in imagery and pictorial contemplation, that this is religion. Religion is pure thought which we imagine in form. We put into form.



*Prabhupāda: No, there... He has no knowledge of religion. Religion means imagining pure, not pure thought. Religion means the order coming from the most pure. That is religion. You, you cannot imagine. Your imagination... Imagination (indistinct) best thing. But if you receive the best thing directly from the most pure, that is religion. Just like we are receiving directly from the most pure Kṛṣṇa. He says, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. That is religion. That is religion, he is directly receiving the orders from the most pure, Kṛṣṇa. He is not imagining. It is not imagination.



Śyāmasundara: He says that religion unfolds in three phases. In the first phase, or natural religions, they worship objects of nature like the thunderbolt, trees. Then as men beome more advanced, they begin to think of God as localized, like the Jewish religion, perhaps God is somewhere, as one thing. Then highest religion, he says, is Christianity because it gives us a clear idea of God, His son, and the Holy Ghost. He says that Christian religion is the perfect religion.



Prabhupāda: Why perfect? God has only one son? Is that perfect? God is unlimited, and He is limited to one son? Why He should be limited to one son?



Śyāmasundara: He says that this son represents nature and the objective world, because it is God incarnate; we can see Him, we know what He looks like...



Prabhupāda: Then he believes in incarnation? So, when there is son incarnation and God incarnation, which is better? Incarnation, He incarnates as son and He incarnates Himself.



Śyāmasundara: He maintains that God is an absolute idea, that he is pure conception.



Kīrtanānanda: Impersonal.



Prabhupāda: That means he has no clear idea of God. If God has got a son, then the father must be a person. Where is a son who is born out of imperson father? Where is the evidence?



Śyāmasundara: An idea, born out of an idea.



Prabhupāda: Idea. This is nonsense. If son is a person, his father must be a person.



Śyāmasundara: He says that in philosophy we approach closest to the absolute or God, whereas art is the form of the absolute.



Prabhupāda: Then his statement that Christianity is perfect, that is refuted.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That stands refuted.



Devotee: As Hegel presents Christianity.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, is just like his philosophy of thesis, antithesis and synthesis. So he says, "Therefore it is perfect."



Prabhupāda: He may think it. Everyone thinks that way, (that) his philosophy is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that even higher than religion is philosophy because you can approach God through pure concept or thought, pure thought, and reach God.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata, Bhagavad*-gītā is combination of religion and philosophical thought.



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy, knowledge of the absolute idea is unique because it is in and for itself, or is pure idea, that philosophy is pure idea.



Prabhupāda: That we say, that religion without philosophy is sentiment and philosophy without religion is mental speculation.



Śyāmasundara: But he wants to have philosophy without religion. He says that philosophy...



Prabhupāda: That is mental speculation. He says that above religion is philosophy. That means religion supported by philosophy is real religion. Religion supported by philosophy is real religion. Otherwise insufficient. It is same thing. That's all. Actually except Bhāgavata religion, all other religions in the world are sentiments. Therefore in Bhāgavata beginning is said, dharmaḥ projjhita kaitava, all cheating type of religion is kicked out from dharma. Projjhita, kicked out. Except Bhāgavata religion, any religion which is going on in the world, they're all cheating.



Śyāmasundara: The philosophy of Bhāgavata is not...



*Prabhupāda: God*-centered.



Śyāmasundara: But it's not purely conceptual, is it?



*Prabhupāda: Well, it is religion in this sense that carrying out the order of God. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like law means the law given by the state. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. That is religion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is higher than religion.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you apply your philosophy. Then why... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You just surrender unto Me. This is religion. Now try to understand why Kṛṣṇa says that you surrender unto Me, and why we are obliged to surrender. That is philosophy, that is philosophy. And when your philosophy supports, "Yes, we have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa," then it is perfect, it is not sentiment. [break]



Śyāmasundara: So yesterday we were discussing Hegel. He says that the absolute idea or God assumes three forms. The first form is called the idea in itself, the second form is called the idea for itself, the third form is called the idea in and for itself.



Prabhupāda: Idea in?



Śyāmasundara: In and for itself.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Śyāmasundara: And these three things may also be called...



Prabhupāda: That means he is creating God. Is it not? God is an idea. So his philosophy is that you create by imagination something as God. Actually there is no God. Just like Māyāvādīs, they say, "God is imperson. God is dead." Like that. And you can create a God. Just like Vivekananda, that is their theory. Therefore they create Ramakrishna as God.



Śyāmasundara: He said that God is the idea behind all concrete objects. Whatever is concrete there is a superior idea.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Idea can be changed so God becomes a thing which is subjected to the whimsical change of rascals. That is his idea.



Śyāmasundara: He says that God is the sum total of all concrete phenomenon.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right but that means he has no clear knowledge. That's all. So therefore we can say they are rascals. And one who does not know God, he is rascal. Following, that is our philosophy(?). But because knowledge means to understand God. The animals, they do not understand God. Therefore they are called animal. Similarly, any man, any so*-called (indistinct) does not know God, he is animal. He may be nicely dressed, that is another thing, but factually he is an animal, because he does not know God. That is the position of animals. What is the difference between man and animal? That is the difference, the animal cannot know what is God, the man can know. That is fundamental. It may be... There are difference of animals but no animal is able to understand God. And here the difficulty is that one is in the animal's position, he does not know God but he takes the position of teacher. That is the difficulty of this modern civilization. The person in position of animal is trying to teach others. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānaḥ as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "The blind man is trying to lead other blind men." That is the defect of the modern civilization. We, our Vedic civilization, not our (indistinct) everyone, we accept a teacher, Vyāsadeva, Kṛṣṇa. They must be beyond the, beyond suspicion. Just like there is an English proverb, "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." Is it not? Is it an English proverb? "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." So anyone who is on the position of teacher, he must be above suspicion. That is our first acceptance of teacher. We don't accept any teacher who is under suspicion. How he can be teacher if he's under suspicion? Now they may question that if you are above suspicion. "No, I am not above suspicion, but I am carrying the message which is above suspicion. Therefore I am above suspicion." The peon delivering you four hundred dollars, he is not rich man but he is actually delivering four hundred dollars. That is our position. Therefore we say, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. I may be rascal, it doesn't matter, but because I am carrying the message which is not rascal, therefore I am fit. This is our... We don't say anything rascaldom because we don't say anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa or by authorities like Vyāsadeva. That is our position. Don't teach anyone else, except what Kṛṣṇa teaches. Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." We say, "Surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." Just like Śyāmasundara's daughter, she says, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" (indistinct) "No, I don't know." "Supreme Personality of Godhead." She may be child, but the message she is delivering is perfect. The message she is delivering, that is perfect. Is it not? She says, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Now the child may (not) be perfect, that's all right, but the message she is giving, it is perfect. So there is no suspicion about the message. That message is above suspicion. So our position is: you don't change it. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2], receive message by paramparā. (indistinct) is the same. Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." We say, "Surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." I may be rascal, that is (indistinct) but the message I am carrying is without (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: The idea in itself is that thesis, the idea for itself is the antithesis. Now the idea...



Prabhupāda: The first thing is that idea, anything... Idea is not God. God is substance.



Śyāmasundara: Oh.



Prabhupāda: Anything nonsense idea, that is not God. God has created you. You cannot create God. And they are creating God. Just like Vivekananda mission, yata mata tata patha. As many opinion you have got, you can have your religious way. Yata mata, this is their mission, yata mata tata patha, "Whatever you are thinking, all right." Ramakrishna, he wanted to realize God from any way. And later on he wanted to realize God by the Mohammedans' way and he asked the proprietor of the temple to allow him to take meat, cow's flesh. So when he asked, the proprietor said, "Please go out. Get out." Now don't real..., I don't want the (indistinct). This philosophy also you can realize God in any way, yata mata. Now he wanted to realize in the Mohammedan's way, therefore he thought it wise that he must eat cow's flesh. These things are there.



Śyāmasundara: If God is not an idea but He's substance, how do you mean that, substance? How do you define substance?



Prabhupāda: You define substance. What is your definition of substance?



Śyāmasundara: Substance is the...



Prabhupāda: Concrete.



Śyāmasundara: ... the realization of the idea.



Prabhupāda: I know. Something concrete. (indistinct). Substance is concrete. The gold idea and... Just like you know gold, and you know a big mountain. So now you form an idea, the gold mountain. This is idea. But when you see actually gold mountain, that is substance. This is difference between idea and substance. But you have never seen gold mountain but you say gold mountain. You combine some idea. You are thinking, "There is gold. Now if I get the mountain, like gold." So that is idea. But when you actually find a (indistinct), "Here is a gold mountain." That is fact. That is substance.



Śyāmasundara: Hegel's idea is that there is idea, then there is substance but the synthesis is spirit. Spirit combines both idea and substance.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, but spirit is, according to our philosophy, the spirit is realized in three phases, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The supreme spirit is realized in three phases. An example is given, just like you see from a distant place the mountain, you see just like a hazy cloud. You go forward, you will see something, substance, green, and if you enter it you'll see so many trees, so many animals. So you are seeing the same object but according to your understanding, somebody is saying, "Oh, it is a cloud." Somebody is saying, "It is some green (indistinct)," and somebody is saying, "No, it is very nice place." It is a question of where he is standing, to understand God. So those who are standing in distant place, for them imperson. Just like we are seeing the sunshine imperson, and the sun globe localized, and if you have got capacity to enter into the sun globe, you'll see sun god. Similarly, God is realized in three capacities, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. Either impersonal Brahman, or localized Paramātmā, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But if you somehow or other approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is Kṛṣṇa. Then you understand the other two things. And Kṛṣṇa is explaining, brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. "I am the resting place of brahmajyoti." Brahmā*-saṁhitā says, yasya prabha [Bs. 5.40], this brahmajyoti, impersonal brahmajyoti is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Paramātmā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna [Bg. 18.61], that is another feature of Kṛṣṇa. He is sitting in everyone's heart. Just like the sun is reflected in thousands and millions of (indistinct). There are no so many suns, there is only one sun. How you will (indistinct)? So God is one but according to realization, one who has seen the (indistinct), he says, "Oh, there are millions of suns." And one who has not seen the (indistinct), he has seen only sunshine, "Sun is impersonal." It is a question of (indistinct) person who is realizing. But actually God is a person, sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha. That is (indistinct). We have got clear conception of God, sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha, Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that...



Prabhupāda: His idea, but we are talking of substance.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. First before, for instance we make a table, we have to have an idea about a table.



Prabhupāda: No, that makes... Anything, if you are trying to approach by your idea, that is not substance.



Śyāmasundara: No, he says first there is the idea of something, then the substance, but spirit is that which...



Prabhupāda: No, no, no that is, that is...



Śyāmasundara: ...has both the idea and the substance.



Prabhupāda: When you think that first of all let us have an idea. That is not substance.



Śyāmasundara: No, so we, for instance the table. I want to build a table. So I have an idea this is what it's shaped like. Then I gather the substance together. There is a table.



Prabhupāda: Now, why idea? If you are going to make a table, you have seen table, that is not idea, that is substance. Why do you say idea? Nonsense, it is not idea.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose I've never seen a table?



Prabhupāda: But then you cannot say what is table. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: But I have an idea, I want to make something...



Prabhupāda: No, no, that is false. As soon as you speak of idea, that is nonsense. You cannot make an idea of God. That is nonsense. What do you think?



Devotee: (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee: All ideas are coming from Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Yes. Idea is coming because there is substance.



Śyāmasundara: I'm not talking about God. I'm talking about the objects of the senses.



Prabhupāda: Anything, anything, you cannot make an idea of table. You are...



Śyāmasundara: I can make an idea...



Kīrtanānanda: First of all Hegel uses the word idea, he doesn't mean just like thinking, some mental image. He's using the term differently. I always thought.



Śyāmasundara: He's using it as a rational form which precedes the material form or physical form. Just like I can think in my mind that e equals mc squared...



Prabhupāda: Anyway, that you are speculating. We don't accept that.



Śyāmasundara: No, but I can put that into practical form.



*Prabhupāda: No, practical form we can know. Just like we understand what is God, that Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is vigraha, He is a form. He is a form but what kind of form-sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. He is sat-cit-ānanda. Now this sat-cit-ānanda, we have no understanding what is sat-cit-ānanda, but you can understand what is sat-cit-ānanda. Sat means eternal. So you can compare that Kṛṣṇa has got a body which is sat, whereas I have got this body which is asat. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's body is not like this body. This is philosophy. They are ānanda, blissful. Now if I compare myself whether my body is blissful, no, it is always painful. So therefore His body is not like this.



Śyāmasundara: So you are saying that the ideal also has substance.



Prabhupāda: Substance, everything substance.



Śyāmasundara: For instance the ideal table, the ideal table. I don't see any table that's ideal but I can imagine there's one ideal table...



Prabhupāda: No, no, if you do not know what is table, you cannot manufacture table. You have to ask what is table. You have to ask somebody that... You have got... Practically unless you see or know from some way or other how can you manufacture a table?



Śyāmasundara: Just like Albert Einstein, he thought about this theory...



Prabhupāda: Because he's Albert Einstein, he's not perfect.



Śyāmasundara: No, but he was able to conceptualize that the speed of light squared times the mass equals the energy of an object. And then he was able to experiment in the laboratory and actually find out that it was true. But no one told him that formula. He found it out through process of idealizing, ideas.



Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is, he is studying science. He is a scientist. You cannot say but he's scientist. He, just like the same you are seeing the mountain from a distance, you are seer. Now the more you make progress you see it is green, then more progress, "Oh, it is (indistinct)." The seer, because he is scientist, he is searching so he is making progress but all of a sudden a layman cannot see like that.



Śyāmasundara: No but doesn't he have an idea before he finds the substantial...



Prabhupāda: Then idea... Idea means, scientist means they see something, observation. That is called observation. So observation, in the beginning there may be hazy. Just like two scientists, Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose and Marconi were, both of them were trying to capture sound. This, I mean to say, radio. They are theorizing that sound can be captured.



Śyāmasundara: That's an idea.



*Prabhupāda: Not idea. Somehow or other-they are both scientists*-they thought it (that) the sound can be captured. So they were making research. Now, they said-Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose, he found first, how sound can be captured but because he was Indian, the British government did not give him the credit. They gave it to Marconi and it was discovered (indistinct) Jagadish Chandra Bose. Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose personally told. I was present in the meeting in my childhood. That is a fact. One Baptist Mission Church in College Square, I saw Sir Jagadish, he spoke there. Then you challenge that "Now I shall give something which no others, which is (indistinct)". So he gave that the trees have sense, sensitive (indistinct). They can feel when you cut. That machine (indistinct). In Calcutta I have seen Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose Institute, we have got in (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: When we were discussing Plato, Plato has this idea also that the ideal precedes the physical representation and you said yes, that the ideal was in spiritual realm, it exists in the spiritual realm. Because of that we are able to conceptualize some idea.



*Prabhupāda: Not that that idea is like this. Just like we have found that in the spiritual world and this is perverted reflection so in the śāstra we hear, cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu, the houses are made of touchstone. So we have never seen touchstone, neither you have seen a house made of touchstone. We have seen house made of bricks or wood. So this is, this may be an idea but that idea comes by hearing from authority. Not that we manufacture that spiritual world must be made up. Like this.



Śyāmasundara: So there is always some substance which forms the contents of the idea.



Prabhupāda: Yes, idea means there is substance but I have not seen it. That is idea.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the spirit, the spirit is the one who both has ideas and puts them into practice.



Prabhupāda: We say spirit has got everything. Why this or that? Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Everything is coming from. Why this or that? There is no such discrimination.



Śyāmasundara: What about a notion or a concept? How does that come into being if it has never existed before?



Prabhupāda: Notion, notion is the same thing like that. You have got, you have seen gold and you have seen mountain so you can build a golden mountain. Although you have never seen what is golden mountain.



Kīrtanānanda: But if I have that idea of a golden mountain, that means that in the spiritual world that must exist?



Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. Spiritual world means everything existing. Unless there is substance in the spiritual world there cannot be anything even(?). Because it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Everything is (indistinct).



Kīrtanānanda: But I can form an idea that is not in the spiritual world. Am I understanding you?



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Pradyumna: We're a reflection, just like (indistinct) there's no dogs in Vaikuṇṭha, but there's dogs here, the dog's mentality is here.



Prabhupāda: No, therefore it is called temporary. Dog is a spirit soul. The spirit soul is there. That's a fact.



Śyāmasundara: There's a, for instance in mathematics, advanced mathematics has to do with sets of formulas, equations, symbols which have no place in reality. They have no substance. They're merely ideas on paper or in my brain. What about these kind of ideas. They are, how to say, like the square root of minus one.



Prabhupāda: Ad infinitum, ad infinitum, like that.



Śyāmasundara: Like the square root of minus one. There is no substantial reference for that idea but there is an equation: the square root of minus one.



Prabhupāda: The ultimate understanding, if we have accept this formula janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], so everything is emanating from the substance, so without having a place of that idea in the substance, you cannot have... That is another thing (indistinct). Because you are also a product of that something. So whatever you are thinking, that must be there, in the original.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose I have an idea, tomorrow I want to go to Pittsburgh. So then I actualize my idea, tomorrow if I go to the airplane, airport, get a ticket...



Prabhupāda: But you have heard that Pittsburgh, there is a place, a substance, you may not have seen. So you are preparing to go to Pittsburgh means Pittsburgh is a fact. Not idea. You are not going to idea Pittsburgh, you are going to actual Pittsburgh. That you have known, therefore you are (indistinct). You might have not seen. Just like I came to New York. I never saw it. I got an idea, "It may be like this." But I was coming to actual fact.



Kīrtanānanda: Now I see your point.



Śyāmasundara: I see your point also but supposing then that I have an idea I'm going to a vacant place, a vacant land and build a house which has never existed before...



Prabhupāda: So you have seen other house, that you have got this idea.



Śyāmasundara: A new house.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, new house means you have seen other houses. Try to make a new idea. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: But originally, originally before there was ever any houses.



Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. But you have seen another place, a house. (indistinct), we have seen, in that particular (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: No, but millions of years ago before there was any house... Suppose I am the first man on the planet, there has never existed any other house, then I get an idea to build a house, does that idea precede the substance?



Prabhupāda: Yes, according to our philosophy, just like Brahmā. Brahmā, he created another universe in his previous birth, but in this birth he forgot. So therefore he underwent tapasya for one hundred years, is it not? It is stated. So it is called... Just like you know something, so you think (indistinct). This is like that.



Śyāmasundara: If I invent a new invention...



Prabhupāda: It is not invention. That I am seeking where I have kept a thing, that means it is there, I have not forgot.



Śyāmasundara: In other words it existed before.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Just like I invent the television set...



Prabhupāda: Because you cannot invent anything which is not in the substance.



Śyāmasundara: Even if I invent, for instance I invent the atomic bomb...



Prabhupāda: There is no question of inventing. The atomic bomb, what is that, it is brahmāstra, it is already made. You are not inventing.



Śyāmasundara: Where does the idea come from?



Prabhupāda: From the origin.



Śyāmasundara: From our past lives?



Prabhupāda: From the origin, yes.



Devotee: (indistinct) one of the chapters of the *Bhāgavatam*, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



*Prabhupāda: That is, that is, I have explained in Bhagavad*-gītā that a yogī remembers in due course, past activities, and again he begins. Where he left it, from that point again he begins. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yogo bhraṣṭo sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. He is given the chance.



Kīrtanānanda: So all ideas can be traced back to the original substance which is Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Everything from Me." Therefore if you get Kṛṣṇa, then you get all the substance. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). That is the Vedic statement. If you simply understand God, then you understand everything.



Śyāmasundara: So you say that form precedes idea.



Prabhupāda: What?



Śyāmasundara: Form precedes idea, not idea precedes form.



Prabhupāda: Yes, we accept that. Form precedes idea. (indistinct).



Devotee: In one of the chapters of the *Bhāgavatam* you state that before man has an idea about anything, the Supreme Lord has the idea. In the Vedic aphorism, the Lord's eyes see before our eyes, His ears hear before our ears, and actually all substance, before you get an idea there must be the substance, and the substance is Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: And any idea that we have, whether good or bad, that has come from Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct). That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, Fifteenth Chapter, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15], "The ideas are coming from Me."



Devotee: So if a person thinks he has an idea of a skyscraper building, it's because Paramātmā has given him that idea.



Prabhupāda: Yes, he gets idea: "Yes, there is a building like that, you can do that." For man there cannot be anything, invention. He can say "discovered", there is nothing invented.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that these two things are opposing, idea and substance, they are thesis and antithesis but the spirit contains both of them so it is the synthesis.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we agree. Viruddha (Sanskrit), viruddha, contradictory thing can be adjusted in Kṛṣṇa. Because what is viruddha, opposite, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa, and what is substance, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. We are thinking viruddha. Just like this same example, cooler and heater. They are opposite but they are coming from electricity. Therefore in electricity power, both can be adjusted(?). You can say, "Electricity can be cooler, electricity can be heater." That is called viruddha (Sanskrit). Contradictory things adjusted in Kṛṣṇa. Inconceivable, therefore we say inconceivable. Simultaneously one and different. That is our philosophy. Simultaneously we are all equal, one with God, and different. In our..., this material world, it is impossible to think like that, therefore it is called inconceivable.



Śyāmasundara: Everything we can conceive of, that must exist somewhere?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Just like I conceive of a gold mountain. Now in this world there is no gold mountain...



Prabhupāda: There is actual gold mountain. You have not seen. That information (is) from *Bhāgavatam*.



Śyāmasundara: Then let us say I can conceive of a building eight hundred stories high.



Prabhupāda: Eight hundred, eight million stories. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: It doesn't exist.



Prabhupāda: It exists.



Śyāmasundara: On this planet, no.



Prabhupāda: On this planet, you can say like that.



Śyāmasundara: So you can conceive of it somewhere so it must exist.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when many Brahmās came. So not only four*-headed but millions of headed Brahmās.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So I can conceive of that so it must exist.



Prabhupāda: The substance is, the fact is you cannot conceive anything which is not in existence.



Śyāmasundara: So somewhere must be the square root of minus one, even though...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, spiritual world is like that. But here in this material world, we have got experience, one plus one equal to two, and one minus one equal to zero. In the spiritual world this does not apply. There one plus one equals one and one minus one equals one. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation], Vedic wisdom. Pūrṇam, that from the complete, you take the complete, still it is complete. So where you have got this idea? So therefore you have to know from the Vedic.



Śyāmasundara: So it must exist if I can...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: But what about the idea that God is evil?



Prabhupāda: He is evil also. He has got His evil also.



Devotee: But not according to our understanding.



Prabhupāda: Yes, but because He is absolute, either He is evil or good, He is God. That is absolute. You cannot say, "God is evil (indistinct) and now, therefore He is evil." No, He is good.



Śyāmasundara: What about the idea that God does not exist?



Prabhupāda: Yes, He does not exist in the rascal. That's a fact. The rascal cannot understand what is God therefore (indistinct) does not exist.



Kīrtanānanda: He is covered by the curtain of māyā.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: (indistinct) I am God.



Prabhupāda: That is also fact. Because you are part and parcel of God. Gold is gold, gold particle is also gold. If you say, "I am God," that means if you are particle of gold you can say, "I am gold." Just like you can say, "I am American," and President Nixon also can say, "I am American." That does not mean you are President Nixon.



Śyāmasundara: What if I think I am President Nixon? I can conceive...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, you can hold the post of President Nixon somehow, somebody.



Śyāmasundara: Let us say, "I am now president of the United States."



Prabhupāda: That is madness. (laughter) You can say, "I am President Nixon," this will be taken you are, President Nixon as American. Because he is also American. So you are also American. In that way you can say, "I am President Nixon." In the American understanding.



Devotee: So that madness is coming from the spiritual world.



Prabhupāda: That is not madness. You can say like that that I am... It is not clearly said. You can say, "I am as good as President Nixon, as American." That is the explanation.



Śyāmasundara: Anyway whatever I can conceive must exist.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that this absolute consciousness or the idea in and for itself manifests itself in three forms. The first was the subjective mind. This is the individual who creates abstractions and he...



Prabhupāda: Subjective mind, just like although I have never heard what is God but I can think within my mind that as there is every man there is some controller, some chief man. So all this creation as I have seen, there must be a controller. This is thinking, right way.



Śyāmasundara: Subjectively.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: He says the subjective mind manifests itself again in three ways. First...



Prabhupāda: So that three ways, impersonal, localized and personal.



Śyāmasundara: In a way. First I understand that I relate to this body, somehow, then I get some understanding of outside objects, and then I get intelligence, real and moral choice.



Prabhupāda: Yes, these things are there. These things are there. Supposing the animal, he is thinking that he's body but when he comes to the human form of body he thinks, "Am I really body?" Then he thinks, "No, I am not this body. It is my body." Advanced thinking. "Then what I am?" This is progression.



Śyāmasundara: Then he says that this absolute idea, the in and for itself manifests itself in the objective mind such as our laws, our ideas of morality, our social ethics. In other words the individual consciousness manifests itself as a group consciousness, as we have laws that govern the state. These are extensions of our own...



Prabhupāda: As soon as we accept a controller, all these things will come. The laws must come, the control must come, the morality must come, immorality, everything will come as soon as we accept a controller. The atheistic persons do not accept the controller, they do everything nonsense, immoral.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the free will develops in these three areas of experience of law, morality and social ethics.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is the field of free will activities. Unless you have got platform to execute your (indistinct), there is no meaning of free will. So that is the platform. There must be law, there must be system, morality. That is (indistinct). Just like Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa, "Now, whatever you like, you do." That is free will. But He has explained to him, "This is this, this is this, now it is you have your choice."



Śyāmasundara: Here's where he may differ from you. He says that morality is where the will evaluates itself and sets its own standards.



*Prabhupāda: No. Our morality is not like that. We accept morality from higher authorities. Our morality is standardized. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekāṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We accept that is morality.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the state of California's morality may change. It may say gambling is legal tomorrow and then drinking is not legal.



Prabhupāda: Because that law is imperfect but God's law cannot be imperfect. That's perfect. Therefore we don't take others' advice. That is imperfect. We take God's advice because that is perfect. Or God's representative's advice, that is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: Then he says that the idea in and for itself expresses itself as the absolute spirit.



Prabhupāda: That means he is speaking the imperfect perfect. He is speaking from material platform. He has no spiritual platform.



Śyāmasundara: He says the subjective mind deals with inner experience, the objective mind deals with outer experience but the absolute mind deals with both, it unites them.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is absolute, that we can (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: And that this absolute expresses itself in three forms again, art, religion, and philosophy. On the first level the absolute assumes a sensuous form which we call beauty, and this is art, that the spirit...



*Prabhupāda: So our definition of God (is) He is all*-beautiful.



Śyāmasundara: So He is all art, artful too, artistic.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So all*-beautiful means includes everything, everything beautiful. (end)





DARWIN.SYA



Charles Darwin



Śyāmasundara: Darwin is the originator of the doctrine of natural selection, or survival of the fittest. That means that in the course of adapting to the environment one type of animal will develop in a particular way which is best suited for that environment, and he will pass on his superior qualities to his offspring so that that particular species will survive, whereas another, which is not so suitable to that environment, will die out. This is called natural selection. Nature selects different species that can best survive.



Prabhupāda: So what is his explanation of the nature?



Śyāmasundara: Nature is a combination of physical forces in the universe.



Prabhupāda: What does he say about nature?



Śyāmasundara: Nature?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Well, nature is a... All phenomenon can be explained by means of physical laws.



Prabhupāda: Who made these physical laws?



Śyāmasundara: He is not so much concerned with...



Prabhupāda: Why is he not concerned? If he is putting some theory for understanding, why he is not concerned with some primary principles?



Śyāmasundara: He says that we cannot be certain how everything began.



Prabhupāda: Then how he is certain that this natural circumstance is favorable? How he is making certain?



Śyāmasundara: He made many, many tests; he has much evidence...



Prabhupāda: What is that evidence?



Śyāmasundara: ...to show that animals adapt to their environments, just like if you...



Prabhupāda: Why he takes animals first? Why not others?



Śyāmasundara: Animals, trees, plants, insects, men, he examines all the different varieties. For instance if you put a certain animal in a cold climate, he will develop hair to protect his body against the cold, and he will pass on this characteristic to his sons.



Prabhupāda: So why...? The people in Greenland, do they develop hair?



Śyāmasundara: They don't have so much hair, but they develop very fatty tissues. Their eyes are slitted so there is not so much snow and bright light...



Prabhupāda: Then development of hair is not only the existent; *there are other many conditions. You cannot say that development of hair is due to the condition as he says, natural condition. That is not a fixed*-up...



Śyāmasundara: I was just using that as an example of how a species can adapt to its environment.



Prabhupāda: The question is that this development of body, is there any plan that this body should exist in certain condition of nature, and therefore he must have these equipments, either you say, tissues or veins or hair? Who has made these arrangements? That is the question.



Śyāmasundara: His answer to that is chance variation.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. There is no such chance. If he says chance, that means he is a nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: He examines that...



Prabhupāda: He examines what is already existing. But our question is, who has made these circumstances, different circumstances for the existence of different animals? That is our question.



*Śyāmasundara: Well, just like the frog may lay millions of eggs. Out of all those millions of eggs, a few*-three, four-may survive. That means those who were the fittest, by chance they happened to be best fitted to survive. Otherwise too many frogs...



*Prabhupāda: If I say that frogs or many others animals lay eggs, millions... Just like the snake. They give birth to so many hundreds and thousands of snakes at a time. So, if so many snakes are allowed to exist, then there will be disturbance. Therefore the nature's law is that the big snake eats up the small, small snakes. That is nature's law. But behind this nature's law there is brain. That is our proposition: that nature's law is not blind. There is brain, and that brain is God. We get it from Bhagavad*-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. So whatever things are happening in the material nature, it is being done by the indication of the Supreme Lord in order to maintain everything in order. Just like the snake is laying eggs, thousands. If they are not killed, then the whole world will be full of snakes only. So there is a plan that the snakes will eat. Just like tiger. Tiger, they also have their cubs, but the male tiger kills them and the female tiger hides them. So many tigers are coming out. So that is another economic Malthus theory that whenever there is large number of population there must be some war, some epidemic, some earthquake, like that. They should die. So these natural activities are planned; they are not chance. As he is saying, "chance," that means he has no sufficient knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: On the other hand, he has a huge amount of evidence which he has gathered...



Prabhupāda: Evidence, that is all right. Evidence, we have also got evidence. Evidence must be there. As soon as there is evidence, then he should not speak anything of chance.



Śyāmasundara: Just like out of millions of frogs, one frog will be better adapted to living in the water.



Prabhupāda: That is not chance; that is plan. That is plan. That is not chance. He does not know that. As soon as he says chance, that means his knowledge is not perfect. Chance... If a man says chance when he cannot explain, that is evasive. Therefore he is not in perfect knowledge; therefore he is not fit for giving any knowledge. He is cheating, that's all, because he has no perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he sees a plan or a design also, but he sees it in...



Prabhupāda: Therefore if he sees a plan and design, then whose design? As soon as you call it design, there must be designer. As (soon as) you call a plan, there must be a planner. That he does not know.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the plan is only the workings of mechanical nature.



Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Nature is not working mechanically. There is a plan. The sun is rising exactly according to calculation. Calculation not first; *first of all sun rises. But we get experience than in such*-and-such season the sun rises at such-and-such time, so in that season, exactly to the minute, to the second, the sun rises. So it is neither chance nor whimsical. There is a plan. There is a plan.



Śyāmasundara: Could it not be said that that is mechanical...



Prabhupāda: Who made this mechanical? As soon as you bring the question of mechanical, there must be a brain who set up the machine. Mechanical means, just like your, what is that, telex is working. That is mechanical. That's all right. But behind this machine. there is a big brain who has made this possible. Now you are seeing at the present moment that by pushing one button you get your business done, mechanically, but who made this machine. That is important. This machine has not come out itself. There is iron and there is some, it is made of iron. So iron has not molded itself to that machine; there was a brain who has made the machine possible. Now when you are using, because you have no, if you have no knowledge... Just like in our childhood we used to think that there is a man within the gramophone box. This is childish. It is not mechanical. Everything has got a plan, design, and behind that plan and design there is a brain, big brain. What do you say, here is a scientific man?



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually modern scientists try to prove that life itself started from four basic chemical elements. They are carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen. These four basic elements are necessary for making all the by*-processes. Somehow they say that it is made and they don't know who made it.



Prabhupāda: Therefore their knowledge is imperfect. As soon as you say chemical, chemical we have got experience, it is manufactured. Some by big company, they manufacture chemicals, so basic principle is chemicals, who made the chemicals? That question must be there.



Śyāmasundara: Jus t like a hundred years ago we did not know about the existence of uranium, so isn't it possible...



Prabhupāda: You did not know but you don't know who was there. You did not know. Then three hundred years ago that governments did not know there is a land. But it was there.



Śyāmasundara: But isn't it possible that some day we may be able to discover the source of all these chemicals.



Prabhupāda: No, no, it is... There is no question of discovering. There is already, it is known. It is not known to you. We know. It is not known to you, but it is known to us. And the Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the original source of everything: Brahman. We know it. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the origin of everything." So we know that there is a big brain who is doing everything, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ [Bg. 9.10]. So we know. Darwin may not know. That is his foolishness.



Śyāmasundara: He might say the same thing about us.



Prabhupāda: No. He cannot say the same thing about us. We accept Kṛṣṇa, not blindly. Our predecessors, our ācāryas, our learned scholars, they have accepted. So we are not blind. Rather, he cannot say anything. As soon as he says chance, that means he has no knowledge. We don't say chance. We have got an original cause. But he says chance; therefore he has no knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: The scientists have found that we grow up out of a set of genes in the sperm of the male. They are called genes, tiny cells.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Wherefrom the genes came?



Śyāmasundara: Well these can be altered by cosmic radiation. Supposing a cosmic ray hits the gene, it may change it slightly so that maybe it comes out with...



Prabhupāda: That is not the question. Suppose if you have got life, I can kill you with a knife. But the question is, "Wherefrom this life came?" I can change, merely with a knife, your life. That is not very important thing, changing. The thing is to find out the origin, wherefrom the genes came.



Śyāmasundara: He has a book called The Origin of Species, and he traces back...



Prabhupāda: First of all, you are testing his knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: I'm trying to explain. You want to know what he thinks is the origin; so they trace back through geological excavation to the most simplest forms of life, and they see that in the...



Prabhupāda: What is the simplest form of life?



*Śyāmasundara: They find at the lowest bottom of the soil layers which have built up through the years, they find small one*-celled animal forms, sea shells, like that.



Prabhupāda: So how is it forming?



Śyāmasundara: Gradually, through the ages, they have become more and more complex to this age when...



Prabhupāda: What is the beginning?



*Śyāmasundara: In the beginning they have found only the one*-celled animals.



Prabhupāda: They found, but beyond that they do not know. They found it. It was already there. So wherefrom it came?



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another definition that is raised by most so*-called modern scientists, research scientists, they try to find out the meaning of what is research and what is invention. So many scientists have posed also the concept that invention, strictly speaking, is a paradox. When we say invention, "I invented something," somebody invented radio, or somebody invented such-and-such thing, it is not really an invention.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say it cannot come out of nothing. It is already there.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: We did not know it, that it was already there. Foolishly we say that we invent these things.



Prabhupāda: You see, the action is already going on. You see all of a sudden something comes. But that is not perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: Then how do you explain that...



Prabhupāda: We explain that everything, the source, the original source of everything is Brahman, Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: What we are discussing is this doctrine of natural selection, or survival of the fittest.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That natural selection, that law is made by Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: So there is a law of...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. The scientists say that we do not know wherefrom it is coming. All of a sudden I see something and you say that invention. It is not invention. It is already there. You could not see before, and now you can see. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Just like dinosaurs, these huge animals once existing in...



Prabhupāda: That is his imagination.



Śyāmasundara: Well, they found bones...



Prabhupāda: Bones, that's all right. There are many... We also say from the Vedic śāstra there is fish, timiṅgila, which can swallow up big, big whales, you see. That is also very big. And there is Varāha incarnation, He picked up the whole earth on the tusk. How much big the Varāha animal was to show that it can pick up the whole earth, earthly planet just like a ball. He cannot imagine such big animals.



Śyāmasundara: But my point is they excavated down into the ground and they found that gradually, through the years, animals are evolving towards more and more complex forms, from very simple forms in the water to land animals, plants, and these big dinosaurs, then they died out.



Prabhupāda: If they died out, that means there is no more existence of that animal. But how can you say that the animal is existing somewhere else? Now, according to his statement that from a certain basic principle, by gradual evolution, the human body is coming. Now his theory is that the human body is coming from the monkey.



Śyāmasundara: They are related; they come from the same...



Prabhupāda: Related? Everything is related. That is another thing. But if the monkey's body is developing into human body...



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Apelike man.



Prabhupāda: Then after development of human body, why is the monkey species does not cease? Why not it does not cease?



Śyāmasundara: They are like branches of the same tree, he calls them.



Prabhupāda: Branches of the tree, just like we see now the monkey is existing and human being is also existing. Similarly, we say what he sees the beginning of life, at that time also there was human being.



Śyāmasundara: They find no evidence of them.



Prabhupāda: Why no evidence?



Śyāmasundara: In the ground. There's no evidence in the ground.



Prabhupāda: In the ground? That means that in the ground is the only evidence? There is no other evidence?



Karandhara: Scientists think that the only way to maintain integrity is not to accept anything until they can see it or understand it with their own senses and mind, by material evidence. That is their whole platform of empiric research, that nothing can be accepted until it's proven by their own sensuous experience.



Prabhupāda: But they cannot prove that there was no human being wherefrom they are starting their study. They cannot prove.



Śyāmasundara: It appears from the evidence that there are apelike men in certain layers of...



*Prabhupāda: The apelike man or manlike ape is already existing. If you say development, just like from this, it has developed this, then there should be no existence of this. Kārya*-kāraṇam. That's all. Now when I see still both are existing...



Śyāmasundara: The former doesn't exist any more.



*Prabhupāda: No, no, no. If from monkey, man is coming, so then when monkey develops into man, the monkey should not exist. Kārya*-kāraṇam, kārya-kāraṇam, cause and effect. When the effect is there, the cause is finished now.



Śyāmasundara: The monkey didn't cause the man; they came from the same common ancestor. That is their explanation. They had the same common ancestor.



Prabhupāda: That is, we say that all we come from God, the same ancestors, the same father. What is the difference?



Karandhara: Everyone has the same ancestor.



Prabhupāda: The same ancestor. What is the new thing?



Śyāmasundara: But if I am a Darwinist, your explanations are still not satisfactory to me. I'm not convinced because I see...



*Prabhupāda: My explanation is that the original father is Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: [Bg. 14.4] "As many forms are there, I am the bīja pradaḥ pitā, I am the seed-giving father." So what is your objection to this?



Śyāmasundara: Well, if I examine the layers of earth, I find no evidence in any of the layers below of any...



Prabhupāda: You are packed up with the layers of the earth, that's all. That is your boundary of knowledge. That is not knowledge. That is not knowledge. There are many other evidences.



Śyāmasundara: But certainly, if there were men living millions of years ago, they would have...



Prabhupāda: But man is still living. Man is still living.



Śyāmasundara: But they would have left evidence in the earth. They would have left evidence behind them, tangible evidence, that I could see the remains of their civilization.



Prabhupāda: So if I say that the human society, man after death is burned into ashes, so where does he get the bones?



Śyāmasundara: Well, that's possible, but I don't find...



Prabhupāda: According to our Vedic system, when a man is dead, he is burned into ashes. Why the rascal will get the bones?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are no bones.



Śyāmasundara: But there are no other... There's no cities, tools...



Prabhupāda: The animals, they are not burned. They remain. But human being, they burn into ashes. So he cannot find the human bones.



Karandhara: Another thing is that after a certain number of years, bones cease to be bones. They turn back into chemicals and merge into the earth.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: But what about cities and tools, these things? There must be some evidence. In the lowest layer there are clam shells that have become fossilized. In the lower levels millions of years back they find clam shells.



Karandhara: They say it's been millions of years, but how do they prove it's been millions of years?



Śyāmasundara: Through radioactivity.



Karandhara: But that is an imperfect method, devised by imperfect senses.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is limited. It is limited. It is very hard to find about five thousand or six thousand years back.



Karandhara: They don't even agree amongst each other about what the age of things are.



Śyāmasundara: Just like if you go down a hundred feet below the soil, that soil has been down there a long time. But there is no evidences of men, actually civilized creatures.



Prabhupāda: Why he is trying to find out men's bones there? What is the...



Śyāmasundara: I'm just saying that it appears, because layer after layer is deposited in the earth's crust, that the animal forms are evolving toward more complex forms, from simple animals to bigger animals, and then more complex, then to the man, civilized man.



Prabhupāda: From where it began?



Śyāmasundara: It began with the simplest forms.



Prabhupāda: What is that simplest form?



*Śyāmasundara: Small one*-celled animals, then bivalves, then mollusks, then simple forms of aquatics.



*Karandhara: So the one*-celled animals must be God.



Śyāmasundara: That isn't what I'm talking about; I'm just saying that this evolution appears to exist, evolution of species, from simplest forms to more complex forms. That's Darwin's idea.



Prabhupāda: But the simplest form is still existing and the complex form is also existing at the present moment. Not that from the simplest form developed, developed, developed. Just like development means, just like I have developed my childhood body. The childhood body is no more there. But it is a fact I have developed from childhood body to this body. There are so many. So similarly, all the species are existing simultaneously, still.



Śyāmasundara: But they find no evidence in the earlier times that these complex forms existed.



Prabhupāda: No, no. Earlier times or modern times, when I see the all different species, 8,400,000 species of life still existing, so what is the question of development? It existed long ago also. You might not have seen, you have not source of knowledge to understand, but you have to accept it, because all these species are now existing. Similarly, millions of years ago all these species existed. You might have missed. That is a different thing.



Śyāmasundara: But then it is simply a matter of one opinion against another, because the scientists say...



Prabhupāda: No. It is not opinion, it is a fact. Do you think that this development has ceased all other species, simply human being is there?



Śyāmasundara: No. But I don't see evidence that all these complex forms...



Prabhupāda: I have said that one, this, by evolution, one after another, the human form is there. Now Darwin's theory is that some forty thousand years ago there was no human being.



Śyāmasundara: Several million years.



Prabhupāda: But we don't see that. Because at the present moment we see that all the species are there existing, including human beings.



Śyāmasundara: But he says they evolved. That's because they evolved.



Prabhupāda: Evolved, but they are still existing. Evolved, that is another thing. But all of them are existing still. So how you can say that millions of years they did not exist, all? His theory is that...



Śyāmasundara: Because there is not evidence that they exist.



Prabhupāda: Evidence, this is the evidence: if now all the species of life are existing, why not millions of years ago? What do you say?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. It was existing, but simply we did not know.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is one*-sided test.



Śyāmasundara: You can say they existed, but show me. I don't see any proof.



*Prabhupāda: You do not see the animals, the aquatics, the birds, bees, trees-everything*-is existing?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But ten million years ago, according to my excavations, there were no beasts; there were all aquatics.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is nonsense. Ten millions of... You cannot give a history of ten millions. It is your imagination. Where is the history of ten millions of years? You are simply imagining, that is your word. But where is historical evidence? You cannot give history more than three thousand years, and you are speaking of ten millions of years. This is all nonsense. How you can go... There is no history in the human civ... There is no history, ten millions of years.



Śyāmasundara: If I dig far into the ground, layer by layer...



*Prabhupāda: No, no. Dirt... You are calculating ten millions*-it may be ten years. Because you cannot give history of the human society more than three thousand years, so how you speak of ten millions, twenty millions? Where you were there? It is all imagination. You were existing(?), so existence was not there. How can you say that ten millions, twenty millions these things happened? This is simply imagination. In that way everyone can imagine and say some nonsense. Everyone can imagine their own way. I can say "No, it is not ten millions. It is fifty millions."



Śyāmasundara: They have a scientific way of testing that things disintegrate at a certain rate.



Prabhupāda: But here is a scientist, and he does not agree with that.



*Śyāmasundara: What about the half*-life of certain elements?



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The, normally, what they call the age determination, or how old a species is, they normally find out from this so*-called (indistinct). They find some bone or something which contains normally carbonate. And normally they get this age of the elements or age of these findings by so-called Carbon 14 method. Carbon 14 is an isotope of normal carbon, it is called Carbon 12. Carbon 14 is radioactive. It's one in which they put in the radioactive testing, and they find out because it follows the normal chemical laws or physical laws. This is governed by the Lord Himself, by Kṛṣṇa Himself. They're finding the chemical lowest form, and from that chemical lowest they normally try to reduce the, how old the sample is, and that method is very limited, it is not applicable to all findings also, and a test, a very reliable test (indistinct) to about five thousand, six thousand years old but beyond that it is very doubtful whether the findings are really true or not. [break] It is empiric so we cannot fully convince that such-and-such species lives such-and-such long just from that finding. You need more evidence to prove it (indistinct) was existing and it disappeared from such-and-such time but it gives a relative value from so-called modern scientific point of view.



Prabhupāda: But evolution we accept. Evolution we accept but it is not that there was no existence of human being. That we do not accept. Evolution we accept. Just like my childhood manifestation is extinct but there are many other child. Same time. So our point is all the species of life, they are existing simultaneously. Evolution there is, we accept that but it is not that one is missing, one has gone away, and another is come, ten million, thirty millions there was no human being. This is all nonsense. He cannot find in the layer, that is not evidence.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, there's no dinosaurs existing now. They're extinct now but where are they gone? Some other planets then? Is there some...?



Prabhupāda: No. Not in this planet, he has no chance to see it.



Śyāmasundara: There's dinosaurs existing on this planet?



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, he has no chance to see it, or it is imagination only.



Śyāmasundara: That's very hard to accept. What about the dodo? It was a giant bird...



Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that there is an evolutionary process from aquatics to birds here, plants life, then insect life, then bird's life, then animal life, then human life. So this is a evolutionary process, we accept but it is not that one is extinct, another is surviving. All of them are existing simultaneously.



Śyāmasundara: But they are not all present at this particular moment on this planet, are they?



Prabhupāda: Particular, it is not that he has seen all the planets or all the universes. What he has seen?



Śyāmasundara: That's what I mean. They may be extinct on this planet but on some other planet they...



Prabhupāda: At least he has no power to see everything. That is a fact. He's not so powerful that he can see everywhere and everything. That you have to accept. He has limited power to see. By that limited power to see he cannot conclude that one species (is) extinct. That is not possible. No scientist will accept that. After all, your senses by which you are (indistinct), they're limited. So how you can say, "This is finished," or "This is that." That is not to be accepted. Because your senses are imperfect. You cannot see. You cannot search out. Have you searched out all the earthly layers or the 25,000 miles everywhere? That is not possible for you. The whole earthly planet is circumference is 25,000 miles, radius how many, has he discovered that all the places?



Śyāmasundara: No, representative samples in many places.



Prabhupāda: Our first proposition is that he says that there was no human beings some millions of years ago. That's not a fact. Because we see all different species of life existing along with human beings. Therefore it should be concluded this is always existing. Human life is always existing. That is our first charge against him. He cannot say there was no human life.



Śyāmasundara: But we don't see any dinosaurs existing.



*Prabhupāda: You do not see*-your power is very limited-but we have to conclude in this way, when we see at the present moment all the different species of life are existing. Therefore it is existing always.



Śyāmasundara: But I don't see all the...



*Prabhupāda: You don't see because you have no power to see. Your senses are very limited. You don't see. And because you don't see, it is not to be accepted. So many people say, "I don't see God." That does not mean we shall accept, "Oh, so many people say*-majority of people will say like that-'We don't see God.' " Then we are merely crazy fellow, we are after God?



Śyāmasundara: No. But dinosaurs...



Prabhupāda: But simply by dinosaur missing you cannot say that what about other all species of life, other.



Śyāmasundara: Many, many, many, many are extinct, according to...



Prabhupāda: I am accepting many are extinct, but the evolutionary process, it means one extinct, and another comes. But we see that the monkey, from monkey, man comes. The monkey is there and man is there. The monkey is not finished.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, I remember last time when we discussed this, you said, "Well, then, why don't we see men coming out of monkeys still?"



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: "Why hasn't some man been born out of a monkey?"



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: "In our experience..."



Prabhupāda: The monkey is existing, the man is existing.



Śyāmasundara: "So if men came from monkeys, why don't we see it still happening?" That's what you said.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our argument.



Śyāmasundara: So if you accept that there is an evolution, do you accept that the bodies change because of changing conditions of the natural surroundings?



Prabhupāda: Body is not changing. The body is already there. The soul is changing bodies, transmigrating from one body to another.



Karandhara: Darwin doesn't accept that there is a fixed number of species. Rather, the number of species may vary at any time, simply according to the natural selection. But he doesn't give any axiom that there are a certain number of species from which all other variations come. We are saying that there are 8,400,000 species to begin with.



*Prabhupāda: But if first of all you give account for eight million species*-you have no account. We say these are the fixed-up species. But your calculation of species, first of all give us account for eight millions, then you say, "The list is not complete."



Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that there's constant...



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, within that eight millions, but you cannot give us list.



Śyāmasundara: They say that there is new species always evolving.



Prabhupāda: That is not new. That is within the eight millions. You could not find the same thing, you could not find, before that; *now we are finding. Your species, you could (not) give us a complete list. What is the evolutionary process wherefrom it began and how it's coming? You cannot give any fixed*-up list. That is your imperfect knowledge. You are simply imagining. "It may be changed," "It may be chance," or this or that. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Just like, let's say some condition changes suddenly in an environment...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Any condition changes, but within that eight millions. Because you cannot give us any list, so then you have to accept whatever species of life may take by changes or circumstance with this or that, that will be within the eight millions.



Karandhara: Just like if you open a marketplace, at any given point you can go through the marketplace and see that there's this kind of person, this kind of person...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...and he may go away from the marketplace. So because he goes away, you can't say that that person doesn't exist any more because he's not observable there.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, in Darwin's concept he used the natural selection, but he doesn't go far enough what that nature is. He used the term "natural," but he does not know how to...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Explain what is nature. That means insufficient knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: He simply observed there are mutations in nature. For instance, he thinks that perhaps at one time...



Prabhupāda: That means nature is working.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Nature is working, but he cannot explain how nature is working.



Śyāmasundara: At one time he says the one ape developed an opposing thumb so he was able to use tools, grasp things, so he became superior and passed that quality on to his offspring and that developed into man. Simply by...



*Prabhupāda: Then when there is offspring, then the same question comes: "Why the monkey does not produce offspring*-a man?" What is this nonsense?



Karandhara: Scientists often take the shelter of this premise, that it's not..., we don't..., we're not trying to find out. Whenever they're asked what is the original source, they say, "We're not concerned with that. We're concerned with just examining the phenomenon of that source."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is childish. That is childish. Just like I have seen the phenomena, without man there cannot be singing. In the box there must be one man there. This is childish calculation, that's all. Phenomenal study means childish. A fan, in our childhood we will think that a fan is running, there must be some ghost who is running it. So this sort of phenomenal study is not scientific study. It is not scientific. (If) we don't find the original cause, that is not scientific.



Karandhara: That's what they're looking for. But because they can't produce a satisfactory answer, they have to say, "Well, we're not looking for that." They can't come forward with an answer.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, what it is called? Participia principeology, or something like that, that is called.



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) in question.



Prabhupāda: That is not perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: You must admit, though, being a scientist, that supposing you go down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, you see so many layers of earth going up thousands of feet, that the layers at the bottom are very, very old. You must admit, because the earth takes so many years to deposit soil. Even if it's only one million years, it's still very old. And in that lowest layer we find only evidences of simple...



Prabhupāda: So where is the lowest layer, he has gone? Where is it? Wherefrom it begins?



Śyāmasundara: The Grand Canyon is an example. That's a very deep canyon in the ground in Arizona.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: What happens if there was no human beings in that area so that they don't find any...?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Human beings aside, we still find...



Prabhupāda: Just like desert. Desert there is no human beings. If you dig the desert, what you will find?



Śyāmasundara: That's all right. It doesn't matter if it was ocean; still we find gradually the forms become more and more complex toward the...



Prabhupāda: But you cannot say where is the beginning and where is the end.



Śyāmasundara: No. That we can't say.



Prabhupāda: Therefore his knowledge is imperfect.



*Śyāmasundara: He said that if we say the origin of species is the simplest form, one*-celled...



Prabhupāda: How the species living force came in? What is the cause? How it is coming? Wherefrom the life begins?



*Karandhara: It still evades the principal question of who is the creator. I can build a big house or I can build a small box. The point is, who is the builder? So it's evading the question of who... Even if everything started with a one*-celled animal, what started the one-celled animal?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the one cell came?



Śyāmasundara: That they say. He says (it) comes from four different chemicals: oxygen, hydrogen...



Prabhupāda: Well, wherefrom the chemical came? They're not questioning. Who supplied the chemical?



Śyāmasundara: We still may be able to discover some day...



Prabhupāda: That means you are fool, that you are granted. As soon as you say "still," then you are fool number one. That is our...



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's what the modern scientists are doing. They're trying to make life in a test tube. What they are trying to do, these so-called biochemists, at the present time, their goal is to make life in a test tube. So what they do is they are going to put so-called big molecules*-they say DNA, dioxynucleic acid. This molecule is a necessary molecule for..., it's a lively thing. So they're going to make certain combinations of these molecules and put in the test tube and find out whether there is life coming out from the test tube, and then trying to prove how life was formed. But it's such a foolish idea that they will never be able to make the...



Prabhupāda: They are a set of fools. And going on under the name of scientists. Set of fools.



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the other hand, the so*-called physicist... His name was Heisenberg. He produced the concept of the theory of uncertainty, and he found out that certain physical rules that govern certain parts of the so-called universal system of rules-why the planets are moving around the sun, and why they have a repeated course and so on. But he did not know what was the answer. So he named the title of the theory, the Theory of Uncertainty. Based on that, there are so many groups coming up, but they found uncertainty itself, that implies that there is some...



Prabhupāda: Basic principle is uncertainty, and they're building on big, big buildings.



Śyāmasundara: Darwin calls it the missing link.



Prabhupāda: That missing link, let them learn from us. We can give him the missing link.



Karandhara: But ultimately they'll say it'll come down to we propose that Kṛṣṇa is the creator or that God is the creator, then they'll say "That must be proved to me." In other words, they want to fit God within their own empiric gaze. That will be their only satisfaction when they actually become able to circumvent God's existence and create a power by their own intelligence.



*Prabhupāda: He has to admit that the theory of uncertainty is bogus, but everything is there, and that masking behind all these things there must be big brain. That one has to accept. Simply uncertainty, that is not a science. The certainty is that behind all these things there is a big brain. I do not know Him*-that is a different thing-but there is a big brain.



Śyāmasundara: Darwin, he was not so much interested in those questions of origin and those things, but he was a botanist and a biologist, and he simply wanted to investigate how things evolved from one simple form to a more complex form...



Prabhupāda: That he cannot say, how the evolved. He captured something out of his imagination, but he cannot explain scientifically.



Śyāmasundara: From simple forms to more complex forms.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that this happens through mutation.



Prabhupāda: But you do it in the laboratory by mutation, by combination.



Śyāmasundara: They can do that.



Prabhupāda: No. But he said that that is not possible.



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they find that just like I said already, the basic elements of life*-carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen...



Śyāmasundara: You know the theory, not theory but practical proof, that the genes can be mutated by bombarding with cosmic rays.



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That they prove by so-called... That's why the cancer... The example of that mutation is the cancer cell. They try to find out how cancer is caused in the body. They say that somehow the cell has been changed, and they say that it has been done by mutation, so they try to prove it in the laboratory by changing the structure of the cell, and that is called mutation. So they say why the cancer is formed because cancer is an abnormal cell, this is a normal cell. In answering why these elements are formed from these basic four chemicals-carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen*-they try, they say that somehow this nitrogen and hydrogen, they combine forming ammonia. That is called ammonia, from nitrogen and hydrogen. They say somehow this has formed, and somehow, by combination of hydrogen and oxygen, water is formed. And somehow by combination of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, these so-called carbohydrates, or these are formed. But they say somehow these are formed, but they do not know how it is formed.



Śyāmasundara: But all that Darwin is interested in is in the evolution of species: how one type of body evolves to the other type due to the changing conditions, and that because he has evolved a certain body he is best adapted to survive in that condition so that his species survives. So the scientists have shown that by bombarding the cosmic radiation or radioactive elements, that a gene or cell can change, mutate, so a different kind of animal comes out. From one kind of mother a different kind of animal comes out.



Prabhupāda: But we say that different kind of animal is not beyond these 8,400,000 species.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually this is not completely different animal. Some of these properties...



Śyāmasundara: A variation.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just a little change. But another point in that connection is that nature makes its own equilibrium, balance of all the species, and it could have been all a balance. That is why, when nature is balancing all the species, there is no question of making another species fresh or something. This has been already made. It has already been done by nature. What is that nature, you have to ask by going to the real nature, not this false nature.



Śyāmasundara: Just like Darwin first investigated some islands off of Peru, Galapagos Islands, and he found different species of life that exist there that don't exist anywhere else, so that they must have evolved...



Prabhupāda: That means that he has not seen all the species, because he has not traveled all over the universe.



Karandhara: Deductive. It's a deductive conclusion.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He has seen one island but he has not seen the whole creation.



Syamasundara: No.



Prabhupāda: Then? How he can fix up. There may be many others he has not seen.



Śyāmasundara: But the only thing that I want to get at is...



Prabhupāda: The only thing he has has studied, this earthly planet...



Śyāmasundara: ...how the bodies change.



Prabhupāda: ...but there are many other millions of planets, he has not seen all of them. He has not excavated, dug the depth of all the planets, so how he can conclude that this is all? He has not seen everything, neither it is possible for him.



Śyāmasundara: But according to the conditions, different conditions on this planet, natural conditions, certain animals...



Prabhupāda: Yes. But he has not seen different conditions in different planets. Suppose the sun planet, the condition is fire. So how life can exist in the fire, he has no knowledge.



Karandhara: You point out in the introduction to *Śrī Īśopaniṣad* that deductive conclusions are always imperfect because you have to be able to deduce everything in order to come out to the right conclusion. Just like if you live in a village where everyone is only five feet tall, you may deduct that everyone in existence is only five feet tall; but if you go to the next village you may find someone six feet tall. So you have to search out every village and see every person before you...



Prabhupāda: That is not possible for you. How many millions of villages are there?



Śyāmasundara: No, but see, we're talking about two different things now. He is talking about the doctrine of natural selection or survival of the fittest...



Prabhupāda: But natural selection, that means that is not his selection. Natural selection.



Śyāmasundara: Natural selection.



Prabhupāda: So nature is more powerful than him. So he has not studied nature.



Śyāmasundara: He studies how the bodies change in nature.



Prabhupāda: No. He has not studied. He has studied in a particular place only. But nature means, when you speak of nature, suppose you have studied within this planet, but in nature means there is millions of universes, but he has not studied them.



Śyāmasundara: So you say the doctrine of natural selection is not...



Prabhupāda: Natural selection is there, but how the natural selection is working, he does not know that.



Karandhara: In a sense we know from Vedic information that the species from one end from the smallest germ up to the highest demigod, they are progressively more advanced. So anyone can come along and take out a small eclipsed portion of that sequence and propose the theory that the species is advancing, but that gamut, that range, perspective of higher and lower is existing, but not that it's evolving...



*Prabhupāda: It is already there. I am simply changing place, transmigration. That is our theory*-transmigration.



Śyāmasundara: But you still haven't answered satisfactorily...



*Prabhupāda: Just like you are traveling in a train. There is first class, second class*-that is already existing. But if you pay more, you come to the first class. You cannot say, "Now the first class is now created." It was already existing. So their defect is that they have no information of the soul. The soul is transmigrating. The forms are already there. The soul is transmigrating from one apartment to another apartment. That they do not know.



Śyāmasundara: But still I'm not convinced that if we make geologic investigations all over the world, not just the Grand Canyon or here or there, but in many parts of the world we always find the same thing, that the...



Prabhupāda: But if you say that you have studied all over the world, I say you have not studied all over the planet. That is still defective.



Śyāmasundara: Let's just confine it to this planet.



Prabhupāda: No. Why should you confine it? Nature is not only within this planet.



Śyāmasundara: Because you said that millions of years ago there were many complex forms of life existing on this planet.



Prabhupāda: No. Not on this planet; *maybe anywhere. It is when you say nature, nature is not confined*-what is called-limited within this planet. That you cannot say. When you say nature, this material nature, there are millions of universes and millions of planets in each and every universe. If you have studied... Suppose you have studied this planet; that is not sufficient knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: So, but you said before that millions of years ago there were complex forms of life on this planet: men, horses, animals, elephants...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: But from hundreds of different sources of this...



Prabhupāda: But I say, I say that it is still existing. The man is existing, the horse is existing, the snake is existing, the insect is existing, the trees are existing; why not millions of years ago?



Śyāmasundara: Because there's no evidence.



Prabhupāda: This is the evidence. This is the evidence. You cannot give the history of this planet. Now suppose the existence of sun, you cannot give history. The sun is existing millions of years ago. It is not that sun is created now. The sun is existing now, the moon is existing now, so why should not they come from millions of years also? The sun existing, and within the sun everything is existing. So if the sun is existing, then other things must be existing. That is my conclusion.



Śyāmasundara: They may be existing, but on this planet we have no evidence...



Prabhupāda: That doesn't mean... That means you limit your study in one planet. That is not full knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: I just want to find out for the time being about...



Prabhupāda: Why time being? If you are not perfect in your knowledge, then why should I accept your theory? That is my point.



Śyāmasundara: Well, if you make claims that millions of years ago there were complex forms of life on this planet...



Prabhupāda: Why you are... I never said on this planet. By nature's way everything is existing.



Śyāmasundara: So on this planet there were not complex forms of life millions of years ago...



Prabhupāda: So maybe; *may not be. That is not of the point. The point is that everything is existing in the nature's way. The species, as we say from Vedic language, 8,400,000, fixed*-up. So maybe in your neighborhood, in my neighborhood, it is, they have got..., they are fixed up. But you simply, if you study your neighborhood, that is not perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: I accept that. But I want to understand that the theory of evolution is that...



Prabhupāda: Theory of evolution we accept.



Śyāmasundara: ...from simple forms of life, more complex forms evolve.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. But they are all existing still. They are not extinct. That is the point.



Śyāmasundara: All right. But on this planet, now if we could examine this planet...



Prabhupāda: Again you come to this planet. Why you are sticking to this planet?



Karandhara: Lord Brahmā, the most complex... From the Vedic information we find that the most complex living entity was first, and from him, he created all the variations. So from the most complex the most simple was evolved. Then if you have the wrong information, you could look at it and say it was the opposite, that from the most simple the most complex evolved. The sequence is there, and if you observe it in the wrong way, you may conclude it's going in the opposite direction.



Śyāmasundara: But in the Vedic scriptures...



Prabhupāda: The first creature is Brahmā, the most intelligent, the most learned.



Śyāmasundara: ...and he said, and you say that on this planet there were pastimes, for instance, of Lord Rāmacandra millions of years ago, with His men, His animals, His horses, deers, so many things. But in all of our evidences we find only at that time the most simple forms of life...



*Prabhupāda: Your evidence... You will be satisfied with your evidence, but I have got my own evidence. Why shall I accept your evidence? You cannot force your evidence, your so*-called evidence upon me. What is evidence? First of all you have to select, what is that evidence.



Śyāmasundara: Terrestrial, archaeological findings...



Prabhupāda: No. No. That is not evidence. That is not evidence.



Karandhara: If you find a bone, how do you know it's not...



Prabhupāda: That is imperfect. You have studied one portion of the creation. That is not evidence. In other portion of the creation there is different. But that is not evidence. Your study, your limited study is not evidence.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the evidence posed by Darwin's theory is not enough to explain...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. I agree with that. It doesn't explain there is an evolution...



Prabhupāda: Evolution we accept. There is no quarrel about that point. But we say there are 8,400,000 species of life, evolution is coming through that. But you cannot give us any list that so many... We give real evolution, that there are 8,400,000 species of life, and the living entity coming through that. [break] ...evolution is taking from here to here, and how many there are? You cannot say. You simply say "missing," "something missing," "something is added," all vague.



Śyāmasundara: That admitted, but...



Prabhupāda: If you admit that you are imperfect in knowledge, then it is no use citing scripture. There will...



Śyāmasundara: But what I want to know is that...



Prabhupāda: ...evolution we admit. But your evolution theory is not perfect. Our evolutionary theory is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: But it appears that the evolution is from simple to complex.



Prabhupāda: That we admit, simple. That we admit. There is no difference. But you cannot say what is the simple and what is the complex, and what are the... You say something missing. That is evasive. Why you should be missing if you are in knowledge? You must say this thing is missing, that you have no knowledge.



Karandhara: It's just an axiom, that if any part of the knowledge is perfect, then the whole knowledge is perfect. If you have any part of the truth, you have to have the whole truth in the highest sense. So if their theory is at all correct, and any of the premises are solid, then why it doesn't conclude itself by its own logical deduction? Why it would always have to allude to something missing, some missing factor?



Prabhupāda: Jīva jātiṣu. The *Padma Purāṇa* says jīva jātiṣu, so different species of life. And they give: from this, this; from this, this; from this, this. Then, just like it is said that from bird's life the beast's life comes. Now the beasts, this category is of three millions types of beasts.



Śyāmasundara: Just like they find evidence of large bird, pterodactyl, which has beastlike properties. It has legs also, and they say from that kind of bird evolved a more beastlike, like you say, beasts.



*Prabhupāda: Just like we say that kṛmayo rudra*-saṅkhyakāḥ pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. From the insect life the bird's life developed. That we see practically. One have becomes flies, butterflies. In the grass, worm becomes a butterfly. That is, there is evidence.



Śyāmasundara: But at that time were there only insects existing?



Prabhupāda: No. Everything was existing.



Karandhara: That's not evolution of the species, it's evolution of the soul through the existing species.



Prabhupāda: Transmigration from one body to another. The bodies are already existing.



*Śyāmasundara: For instance, they say that during the Ice Age, when there were..., the earth became very cold, and there were great ice formations in Europe and America, that this animal they call the mammoth*-it's an elephantlike animal but it had long, very long hair for warmth-suddenly this species appears. Does it mean that that body existed always somewhere else, but it just suddenly appeared in order...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...to live here in that environment?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Karandhara: What if it is indeed a different species? What do they qualify as a difference in species? I mean, like one man has lots of hair on his body and one man doesn't. That doesn't make him a different species necessarily.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But in this case, elephants always lived in tropical. They were living in hot climates, and suddenly they had to adapt to the cold.



Prabhupāda: No. Again, just like we have got experience with the change of season, different animals are also produced, with the change of season. But it is not that they are coming new. They are already existing.



Śyāmasundara: They're appearing.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Karandhara: Appearing and disappearing according to the seasons.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this Los Angeles City, there is a havoc of flood from the ocean and all men die. That does not mean extinct; the men are there somewhere else. You cannot say that human species is now extinct, because your study is limited.



Śyāmasundara: Supposing one man is particularly adapted, and he is smart, intelligent, and he survives when everything else is killed...



Prabhupāda: That he may survive, that we don't disagree.



Śyāmasundara: But he would say that that man passes on his superior traits to his children, and it's another species.



Prabhupāda: No. He survives, but many other men like him, they are existing somewhere. He may survive of this catastrophe, but that does not mean that other men are all extinct. You cannot say that. In these circumstances this man may survive or may not survive, but man is existing somewhere else.



Śyāmasundara: And another example, for instance there is a dog called the Pekinese dog. It was made by man, it was developed by men. They took a certain type of dog and crushed it's jaws in so many instances until eventually that trait was passed on naturally to its children...



Prabhupāda: But he is still, it belongs to the dog species. We are speaking of dog species.



Śyāmasundara: But it's a new type of dog. New type. Never existed before that, here.



Prabhupāda: New type, that will not exist also. Because it has been artificially made, it is existing now; now it will not exist again.



Karandhara: There's a kind of Indians, when the babies are young they put a board on their head so that (indistinct) like that.



Śyāmasundara: But now this dog is produced naturally, with its face like that.



Karandhara: But it's still a dog.



Prabhupāda: The dog species.



Śyāmasundara: But it's a new species of dog.



Karandhara: Well, they may call it a new species, but according to Vedic definition it isn't a new species.



Śyāmasundara: What did you just define by species? You mean different types of men, you say...



Prabhupāda: The species, definition of species according to biology is different. We say species means jāti, human race.



Śyāmasundara: So four hundred thousand species of humans.



Karandhara: Different levels of consciousness?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Different levels of consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: I see.



Karandhara: And within any species there can an infinite variety of variations of that one species. Just like...



Prabhupāda: Just like the scientists, their species is different. Just like we are making division that 400,000 different types of men. They will say this is one species.



Śyāmasundara: So would you say, for instance, someone who is less intelligent or more intelligent than I am is in a different species?



Prabhupāda: Less intelligent or more intelligent does not make any species, because suppose you have got five children, one is less intelligent, more intelligent.



Śyāmasundara: He was just saying levels of consciousness determine the species.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is levels of consciousness, that just like we divide the human society: some men are brāhmaṇas, some men are kṣatriyas, some men are vaiśyas, that can be found at any time.



Śyāmasundara: Those are species?



Prabhupāda: They are not species, according to their...



Śyāmasundara: They are types of men.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We said varieties.



Śyāmasundara: Then what is the different species of man, separate from me; for instance, what is another species that is different than I am?



Prabhupāda: I do not know exactly the species, but when we, [break] ...means jāti, manuṣya jāti.



Śyāmasundara: I mean what is an example of different species of man. What are they, for example, several species of men?



Prabhupāda: I say that species, this word is not applicable in that sense. In that sense, according to the scientists' species. But when we say species, class you can say. Classes.



Śyāmasundara: Classes. But what, give me an example.



*Prabhupāda: Again, just like we are a class*-Hare Kṛṣṇa class. Our mentality is different from others.



Śyāmasundara: Oh.



Prabhupāda: Therefore we are a class.



Śyāmasundara: So tribes, more like tribal distinctions?



Prabhupāda: We are not exactly tribal. Culture, by culture.



Śyāmasundara: By interest and culture. I see.



Prabhupāda: By differentiation of culture.



Śyāmasundara: Those are species.



*Prabhupāda: Those who are Aryan, non*-Aryan; *just like I say, they are all human beings, but why you say one Aryan and another non*-Aryan? It is difference of culture, that's all.



Devotee: Say, for example, there is the Caucasian race, the Negroid race, different races like that. If they are all living in the same... Say they all join Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then they are all the same...



Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not on the basic principle of this body. It is basically on the soul; therefore you will find everyone same.



Śyāmasundara: But otherwise it goes...



Prabhupāda: Because it is culture. When one comes to the spiritual platform, there is no question. Even animal you can accept. Just like we worship Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān. He's animal, but because he is devotee of Lord Rāmacandra, we worship him. But that doesn't mean we are worshiping animals.



Śyāmasundara: You mean like Bengalis are a different species than Gujaratis? Something like that?



Prabhupāda: No, no. Why do you mix, we have already explained? Our jāti means of the same culture. He may be Gujarati, he may be Bengali, he may be American.



*Śyāmasundara: So, for instance, carpenters are different than field workers*-like that, different interests?



Prabhupāda: Why different interest? The interest is to earn money. So you may earn money in some way, I may earn money in some way, he may earn money in some way.



Karandhara: So is the primary factor of the variation is how much advanced they are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and how least advanced they are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So there are only two species.



Karandhara: The demons and the devas.



Prabhupāda: This consciousness is coming through so many species, animals, then they're trees, they have no consciousness, but there is living..., the soul is there.



Śyāmasundara: I'm still trying to understand what you mean by the species of human life. It's not clear to me. I don't understand what you mean by the different species of human life.



Prabhupāda: By culture.



Śyāmasundara: By culture.



Prabhupāda: Yes. One class of human being...



Śyāmasundara: But everyone is looking for money. You said the field worker is not the same as, or is the same as the carpenter, because they're both looking for money.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But one who knows how to earn money very easily, and one may not know. That is culture. That is culture. One man is sitting in one place earning daily one lakhs of rupees.



Śyāmasundara: So big industrialists and field workers are two different species of men.



Prabhupāda: Not species, class. Jāti.



Śyāmasundara: Jāti. So when you say 400,000 species of human life...



Prabhupāda: It is difference of culture.



Śyāmasundara: It's different from what we think of as species.



Prabhupāda: Culture.



Devotee: It's not species in the bodily...



Karandhara: So the angle of vision is not from the bodily, it's from the closeness of the soul to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as far as they're able...



Prabhupāda: Unless you accept soul and consciousness, there cannot be question of culture.



Śyāmasundara: But when the scientists say "species," they mean different types of bodies.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We say 400,000 different forms of body, so human body, just like Negroes, they are also human beings, and you are also human beings. So this, scientists will say they are all one species, human being. But we say that Negro culture and the Āryan culture is different.



Śyāmasundara: They also say their bodies are different, Negroid bodies or Caucasian bodies, or Oriental bodies...



Prabhupāda: Then you can say species. Species and the different bodies.



Śyāmasundara: Species means different bodies. too



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Karandhara: So the consciousness, the body, or my form, it's pertaining to my consciousness, the development of my consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You and your brother may be of the same type of body; there may not be a different, same type of consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: But you just said, for instance, the industrialist and farmers are two different species of men, but there could be a Negro industrialist...



Prabhupāda: I already said that. Why don't you listen? Species, definition of the scientists is different from ours. We say class.



Śyāmasundara: I'm trying to understand, because you said class but then you also said bodies. Negro bodies are different from white Caucasian bodies.



Prabhupāda: Maybe difference of bodies. But that does not...; *therefore our classification on the basis of soul. The soul is equal. In spite of different types of body, the soul is one. There is no change of the soul. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that he does not see the species or the class or definition. He sees one: paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Paṇḍita, one who sees to the (indistinct), the soul, he does not find any difference of these species or (indistinct). This is our point.



Karandhara: So Darwin and similar material scientists, they have no information of the soul, but yet they're...



Prabhupāda: There they're missing the whole point.



Karandhara: But they're trying to find out information for themselves, and for others around them, but not knowing who they are, they're drawing on a material platform which is infinite, or at least infinite as far as their capacity to understand. So not only will they never be able to understand the material, the construction of the material arrangement, but at ultimate issue it has no pertinence, anyway. It doesn't mean anything.



Śyāmasundara: No. It does mean something if you accept that forms are evolving from simple to complex. That means that we can expect in the future that mankind will even be of a more superior nature than they are now.



Prabhupāda: Forms are... One form is superior than the other form. (indistinct) you said.



Karandhara: That possibility is also there. We know that by performances of certain types of sacrifices you can become, and go to the demigod planet...



Prabhupāda: That difference is that one apartment is better than the other apartment. Material.



Śyāmasundara: They would say that from the lowest apartments we are evolving to the better apartments.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So according to your position. Just like if you... There are different apartments: first*-class apartments, second-class apartments, third-class apartment. But as you are fit to pay the rent or price, then you are allowed to enter in the apartment. The apartments are already there-first-class, second-class, third-class. They are not evolving.



Śyāmasundara: They say all living things on this earth are evolving in that way, from lower to higher. In the history of the earth...



Prabhupāda: That also may be accepted, because just like at certain period, people are constructing a certain type of apartment, next stage they construct a different type of apartment. That can be accepted. But the apartment itself is not evolving; the evolution is taking, of the apartment, on the desire of something else.



Śyāmasundara: On the desire of something else.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So just like...



Prabhupāda: That they do not know.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see. Just like...



Prabhupāda: They say simply the apartment is changing.



Śyāmasundara: Just like if it suddenly got cold, the spirit soul would desire to be warm so he would evolve a body with hair.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we say. That is our..., according to the mentality at the time of death you get another apartment. But the apartment is already there.



Śyāmasundara: I see. So if conditions suddenly change...



Prabhupāda: Change of mind.



Śyāmasundara: ...a new apartment would arrive on the scene because the...



Prabhupāda: Not will arrive, it is already there.



Karandhara: Simply awarded.



Prabhupāda: It is already there.



Karandhara: The material nature has it in its closet...



Prabhupāda: Yes. "If you want this, come on, here."



Karandhara: ...that, that dress...



Prabhupāda: "If you want this, come on here." It is already there.



Śyāmasundara: And then all the others will die out and that new one will begin, because the...



Prabhupāda: Everyone will die. Everyone will die means change his apartment. Now at the time of changing apartments... Suppose I am here, I have to change another, so I can select my apartment, what kind of apartment I shall have. But that apartment is already there. I'll have to simply make arrangement, that's all. It is not that I am creating that apartment.



Śyāmasundara: The elements, material elements, ingredients are already there.



Prabhupāda: Already there.



Karandhara: The possibilities are unlimited so it's not possible to make such a close...



Prabhupāda: And that apartment is fixed up 8,400,000. Now you can enter into any apartment. Or it is to be ascertained that you cannot think beyond this. Just like a hotel owner, he has got different types of apartments, and he knows the customer cannot think beyond it. So any customer wants, "I'll give this apartment." So by nature's way there are 8,400,000's of apartments. You simply change according to your mentality: "I want this," "All right. Come on."



Karandhara: There's a range. To go back to the...



Prabhupāda: It is, apartment is not evolving. I am evolving in this sense that I am changing one apartment to a better apartment. The better apartment is already there.



Śyāmasundara: To go back to this survival of the fittest theory, supposing we are all here and the water comes, like you said. Supposing one of these persons in Los Angeles has the ability to breathe in water, somehow or other he can breathe under water...



Prabhupāda: So we have no objection.



Śyāmasundara: So he survives; everyone else...



Prabhupāda: He survives means... He survives means that even if he's dead, that does not mean that the species is dead. There is another human being in another part of the world.



Śyāmasundara: I accept that, but I mean I want to...



Prabhupāda: So you say that because he does not survive, the whole species is extinct.



Śyāmasundara: No. But he survives..., one man survives because he is able to breathe in the water.



Karandhara: But how is he able to breathe in the water?



Śyāmasundara: Because he's adapted, he's mutated somehow.



Karandhara: But what has been that selective principle that he's adapted?



Śyāmasundara: According to you, you say it's his desire.



Karandhara: But the selective, active principle...



Prabhupāda: But the fact is that you do not find anyone that one can breathe within the water.



Śyāmasundara: No. That's only an example.



Prabhupāda: But you should give example which is proper.



Śyāmasundara: All right. There is a fish called a lungfish, which... Most fish have gills, they breathe underwater with their gills, they extract oxygen from water. But there's one fish in Africa that has developed lungs, so that, because it lives in an area where the water sometimes goes away, so it must be able to breathe oxygen from the air. So they say out of millions of fish in that water, one happened to have a pair of lungs, so he survived.



Prabhupāda: So we say that means he was already existing. We say there are 900,000 of species of fishes. He may be one of them, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: So the selective principle is there, but all species are already there.



Prabhupāda: Already there, existing.



*Karandhara: The selection will simply be dictated by... The so*-called observance of selection is just the circumstance. The water's going away, so...



Prabhupāda: The selection of the species of life. I can select. From fish, I can become man; from man I can become fish.



Śyāmasundara: So that fish desired to survive in that condition.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: I see.



Prabhupāda: Therefore there is a greater law. Just like the hotel people, he has got experience. The customers come and they want this sort of facilities. So he has made all the facilities here to receive all kinds of customers. Similarly, this is God's creation. He knows how much a living entity can think of, so He has made all these species. If he thinks like this, "Come on, here," nature will, "Yes." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]. Nature is offering facility, "Yes, come on." God, Kṛṣṇa as Paramātmā within the heart, He knows, He wants this. He wants this, immediately nature, "Give him this apartment," and nature offers, "Yes. Come on. Here is apartment." This is real explanation.



Śyāmasundara: So I understand that, and I'll accept that, but the one thing I'm still puzzled on is that there's no geological evidence that in former times on this planet there were more complex forms...



Prabhupāda: Why you are taking geological evidence as final? Why you are taking that? That is final?



Śyāmasundara: But it's logical...



Prabhupāda: What logic? Science is progressing. You cannot say that this is final.



Karandhara: Scientists couldn't deny; they could just say that we haven't found any evidence.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: But until there's something that disproves it to me, then I must accept it, because it..., because it's logical.



Karandhara: But that's a false platform. I'll conclude on the basis of my limited knowledge because I don't have the perfect knowledge. That's an abortion of the whole scientific...



Śyāmasundara: Yes. All right. You can say that I've never seen a purple man, so there must be no such thing as a purple man. You can say that, but as far as I can operate within my practicality, there are no purple men. I've never seen one; no one has ever seen purple men. So isn't this logical?



Prabhupāda: Purple men?



Śyāmasundara: I'm just using it as an example.



Prabhupāda: What is that purple men? But you have not also seen, why you are speaking like that?



Śyāmasundara: I'm using it as an example of an exception.



Prabhupāda: No, no. What, you are scientist, what you have never seen, why you are thinking of like that? That is my point.



Śyāmasundara: I'm using it as an example of an exception...



Prabhupāda: Why example? Why you give a fictitious example which you have no experience?



Śyāmasundara: All right. So let's say no one has ever seen a...



Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing. You cannot say which you have never seen, at least. Because yours is experimental, I may say, but you at least, cannot say like that.



Śyāmasundara: I have excavated in all parts of the world, and every time I go to the...



Prabhupāda: No. You have not excavated all parts of the world. That is another nonsense. You have not done this.



Śyāmasundara: Well, on seven continents I have excavated...



*Prabhupāda: But that seven continents is not the whole world. That is our charge. That you are claiming that you have excavated all. We say no, not even an insignificant portion. So your knowledge is limited. (indistinct) they say the same (indistinct), Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog is limited within the three*-feet well. If he says "I have seen everything," that is not acceptable.



Śyāmasundara: But at least in thousands of places they have bored into the earth or dug into the earth, and they've found...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Thousands of places is not this finishing, the whole planet.



Karandhara: They're always coming up with something new. They're having to revise their theory. Just like that pamphlet. They had to revise the whole theory about Carbon 14 because they found a new factor in the deterioration in the element which they never before considered...



Prabhupāda: This experimental knowledge is always imperfect. Because they are experimenting with imperfect senses, therefore they must be imperfect. Our source of knowledge is different. We do not depend on experimental knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: Let us say that the remains of every animal, every living entity that has ever been found in the ground...



Prabhupāda: That is also a limited space. You cannot say you have excavated a portion of the earth and that is all. You cannot say.



Śyāmasundara: So far, anyway.



Prabhupāda: So far means that is not all. That is, so far, as soon as it is so far, that is not all.



Śyāmasundara: But, so surely we must be practical and say that every...



Prabhupāda: Practical means...



Karandhara: We can only operate on things that we have...



Prabhupāda: Practical means which is beyond your knowledge, beyond your capacity, that is impractical. So nothing is practical.



Śyāmasundara: How can I theorize there were other or higher forms...



Prabhupāda: You theorize partially, as far as. That is not perfect(?).



Śyāmasundara: If I accept your knowledge, how can I theorize that there were higher forms of life millions of years ago if I have never found any evidence and I have searched...



Prabhupāda: This is the evidence. This is the evidence. You have to see through the evidence, because there are, in the evolution there are so many species of life, say 8,400,000, they are all existing now. They are all existing now. Therefore why should I conclude that millions of years they did not exist?



Śyāmasundara: You say they are all existing now, but I don't see the dinosaur. There are no dinosaurs on this planet.



Prabhupāda: That is not the denied. Dinosaur you may not have seen, it may be existing some other... Neither I have seen the 8,400,000 different species of, different forms of life. But my source of knowledge is different. Your source of knowledge is different. You are experimenter with imperfect senses. I am taking from the perfect who has seen, who knows things. Therefore my knowledge is perfect. Just the same example: I am receiving knowledge from my mother, "Here is your father," and you are trying to search out where is your father. You don't go to the mother, but you are searching out. So therefore, however you may search, your knowledge always will be imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: And your knowledge says that millions of years ago there were higher forms of living entities on this planet.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because our Vedic information is that the first creation is the most intellect, that is the most intellectual personality within this universe, Brahmā. So how we can say..., how we can accept your theory that intellect develops? We are receiving Vedic knowledge from Brahmā, so perfect. So that is the evidence. The first creature was so perfect.



Karandhara: You are accepting authority anyway. We are accepting Darwin's authority that he went to these islands and found these animals. How do we know he went to the islands and found the animals?



Śyāmasundara: Because you can go there now and find them; they are still there.



Karandhara: But you have to go there to make, to make your point and deduct it. [break]



Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...when it will be cause of all his existence, survival for the fittest, but he is not going into the, who posed this, how it has been done, how it is going to that theory, so his theories are not complete.



Prabhupāda: His theory, it is not science. It is suggestion, guess.



Śyāmasundara: They call it "doctrine of natural selection," not theory.



Prabhupāda: Doctrine. So doctrine, doctrine should be fact, but Darwin's theory, so far... It is called Darwin's theory...



Śyāmasundara: It's not called theory, it's doctrine. It should be doctrine.



*Karandhara: What they mean by doctrine is that they can't agree on it and say it's fact. That there's so many short*-comings that they will call it a doctrine but they won't call it fact. That's practically the whole story in scientific research: the real scientists, they never call anything a solid fact; it's always a theory or a doctrine because they never find a perfect enough conclusion which takes into account everything and perfectly reconciles...



Prabhupāda: What is that uncertainty? What do you call that?



Śyāmasundara: It's called Theory of Uncertainty. Heisenberg's Theory of Uncertainty.



Prabhupāda: That is also theory.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That has to do with atomic particles.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Accepting the (indistinct), early in 1900 when they find out the smallest particle in the atom, it was a theory; it was accepted for about ten, twenty years.



Śyāmasundara: That was long before, in Greek times, Democritus.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the real theory started by Darwin, that was accepted for several years, but later on, with new advancement, his theory changed. His theory became disproved, that "What you are saying, it is not right, it is not final." So theories can change. So same thing, Darwin's theory is also changing.



Śyāmasundara: But his impact upon the thinking of the world so completely changed the whole conception of...



Prabhupāda: That is now changing again. So what is the use of that, such change?



Śyāmasundara: Well, you have to investigate, because he is important for our...



Prabhupāda: No. That's all right. We will investigate; and a theory which changes, it will change, that's all. It is not a fact. The sun rising is a fact. It cannot change.



Śyāmasundara: Still, you say if there were high forms of, say Brahmā, in Brahmā's time or millions of years ago, there were also other high animals besides men?



Prabhupāda: All I say is that all kinds of different classes of forms were existing, since the creation.



Śyāmasundara: On this planet there were higher forms?



Prabhupāda: Why are you taking this planet? We are talking of the whole creation. In the creation everything is there.



Śyāmasundara: If you expect me to understand this, I have to see it on this planet.



Prabhupāda: That is not knowledge.



Karandhara: Possibly there were and possibly there weren't.



Śyāmasundara: You tell me that Rāma and some other higher creatures lived on this planet so many millions of years ago, so I can expect some day to find evidence of that?



Prabhupāda: The evidence is the authority, Vedic literature.



Karandhara: What other authority will you accept? If you dig up a bone and make a test with your own senses and accept that as an authority...



Prabhupāda: Bone authority. So you will be satisfied with your own authority. We have got our different... If you don't accept my authority, then I don't accept your authority.



Śyāmasundara: It would just seem if there were bones surviving for millions of years, why not cities, why not chariots, why not...?



Prabhupāda: Yes. During Rāmacandra's time there were chariots. Everything was there.



Karandhara: They have found pieces of chariots and pieces of cities.



Śyāmasundara: Not millions of years ago.



Karandhara: How do they know it's not millions of years ago? What is their test for proving?



Prabhupāda: That millions, that is also bogus. You see? In the human history there is no history more than three thousand years. They are talking of millions of years. Why?



Śyāmasundara: You are a scientist. What other ways do they date geological findings? How do they date them?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now it is Carbon 14 is the most reliable technique.



Śyāmasundara: Before they discovered that, how did they do it? They knew the Pleistocene, the Iocene, all these different ages. How did they date them?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: I do know how....



Karandhara: They all remain their own postulation according to their own sense impressions, and because the initial format is imperfect, the conclusion has to be imperfect. So knowledge always remains fallible and mutable, whatever basis they put it on. It is what they have derived out of their own sense impressions, imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, admitted, but I say that...



Karandhara: So dealing on a whole range of imperfection and deduction...



Śyāmasundara: Anyone can argue on that level and say anything, but what I want to know are the facts.



Karandhara: The facts are there, but you can accept the facts as Darwin presents them or as the *Vedas* present them or as anyone presents them.



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: These are all controlled by the force of nature. For example, we do not find evidence, scientific evidence, so*-called they've got from eight hundred thousand years ago. That does not mean anything. It is all subject to the course of nature. So maybe it just changed with the earth turning. (indistinct) That does not mean that it did not exist.



Śyāmasundara: If I'm a Darwinist; I'm still not convinced. Because you still haven't proven to me that the layers of earth that are far, far below are not millions of years old. You say that they may be newly formed, but...



Karandhara: They haven't proven that they are millions of years old.



Śyāmasundara: Well, I'm not a geologist...



Prabhupāda: My charge is that you cannot give history of human society more than three thousand years; how you speak of millions of years? That is my charge.



Śyāmasundara: Written history...



Prabhupāda: No. Suppose a child says that "Millions of years ago it happened like this," but I will say (to) the child, "You were born three years ago. How you speak of millions of years?" That is my charge.



Śyāmasundara: I don't know how geologists date earth layers...



Prabhupāda: They bluff everything.



Śyāmasundara: But even if, let's say the deepest layer is only five hundred years old, but still the ones on top are newer. So in the lowest layer, there are no chariots, cities...



*Prabhupāda: We can rather believe the Bhagavad*-gītā, who gives a description of one, twelve hours duration of life, millions of years. So we can believe such authority. You can actually gain...



Śyāmasundara: Just like when you are dreaming, you may think it's millions of years, and it's only five minutes. You wake up and you've only been asleep five minutes. even though it seems like millions of years.



Prabhupāda: And actually, according to modern scientists, the law of relativity, so everyone speaks with his relative knowledge. It is not perfect. Everyone speaks to his relative knowledge, that's all. Therefore we should accept knowledge from a person who is not within this relativity.



Śyāmasundara: There is also some scientific evidence that where there is land now, it was once water, and where there is water now, it was once land. That the oceans reversed...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we accept.



Śyāmasundara: ...so it's quite possible that if there were great civilizations existing, that they are all, all remains are swallowed. There's no trace.



Prabhupāda: That is, everyday you see. One day we walk on the beaches, and the next day it is covered with water. That is not very difficult to understand. But when the covered with water portion you cannot experiment, how you can say what is there within? Has Darwin gone within the sea, layers, studied the bottom of the sea?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Where it has become land. And you find that there are sea shells, sea animals, in the layer, in the next layer up more complex forms, in the next layer more complex forms...



Prabhupāda: I mean to say, but there is already sea. Has he gone down the sea and excavated the level of the sea, gone down?



Karandhara: Even if they discount...



Prabhupāda: That you do not know. That you do not know. Not that he knows. Because we cannot accept that. Nobody has said that they have excavated down the bottom of the sea. But you also said that bottom may be opened at one, some time. So unless it is opened, your experiment is insufficient.



*Karandhara: Even if you were to grant that the first life forms on this planet were simple one*-celled life, that does not mean that more complex life did not begin earlier on other planets. The theory is not aborted. It may be you can discount the possibility of...



*Prabhupāda: The whole thing is that Dr. Frog, famous story. He comes to this country, Dr. Frog's understanding. He has studied the three*-feet-wide well, and he says he is satisfied with that. He has nothing to do with the Atlantic Ocean. But Atlantic Ocean is also a reservoir of water, and that well is also a reservoir of water. But (there is a) vast difference. So we take knowledge of who has created Atlantic Ocean. Therefore our knowledge is perfect. What do you say?



Śyāmasundara: I just want to try to cover this from every angle so that Darwinists will not be able to argue. Today I'd like to find out how they date earth layers, how geologists find...



Prabhupāda: No. Your geologists have given, "It may be millions of years ago." They say like that.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: They estimate.



Prabhupāda: Estimate.



Śyāmasundara: They estimate, but there must be some basis for their estimation.



Karandhara: They don't even agree amongst one another. They argue. I attended college with scientists, and they argue amongst one another. They don't agree on their own scientific evidence.



Śyāmasundara: But at least they all agree that there is several million years old, many millions of years old, at least.



Karandhara: No. Not necessarily.



Śyāmasundara: The Pleistocene two hundred million years...



Karandhara: Just an assembly of fools. You can get all the fools to agree on the same thing. It doesn't make anyone...



Śyāmasundara: Well I still want to find out how they...



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa nāma koro bhai ar sab niche, parai gab pap nahi yoni ache piche (?). Our real problem is birth, death. All these scientist, they could not solve any of these problems, neither they could answer. Maybe Darwin's cam(?) has died. They could not stop death. Kata choto dayana na mari meri jao (?).



Śyāmasundara: Tomorrow we can discuss ethical evolution, how ethics evolved. That is also part of his doctrine.



Prabhupāda: Ethic morality?



Śyāmasundara: How morality is also a product of evolution.



Prabhupāda: We change morality within six months. The most immoral man, you can make the most moral man within six months. This is practically happening.



Śyāmasundara: It also helps the fittest to survive.



Prabhupāda: You may not be fit, but we can make you fit.



Śyāmasundara: That's what I mean. If you become moral you become fittest to survive. That is also his theory, doctrine.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So that we can do within six months.



Śyāmasundara: He says that at some point a man who had developed sympathy for others, he was able to survive because he would cooperate with them to survive when others were killing each other, like that. So gradually morality also evolved. Tomorrow maybe we should finish Darwin. [break]



Prabhupāda: An animal is put in some certain atmosphere, he adjusts. But there are different types animals. Just like we see while walking (in) severe cold, we try to adjust by covering. Others, the birds, the skylark, the so on, they do not adjust.



Śyāmasundara: His finding is that new types of species will come out, which will be better adapted. The swans, if it becomes too cold, they will die.



Prabhupāda: They are better than us, than human being?



Atreya Ṛṣi: What the theory is Prabhupāda is that, for example, if there are many, many swans living in one place, those who cannot adjust will be extinct after many, many years, and those who can adjust will live. In effect, what he tried to prove was that Kṛṣṇa's law, nature's law, is perfect. But he was missing Kṛṣṇa. In other words, what the proof is very scientific, but it is lacking.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He is adding zero, without one.



Atreya Ṛṣi: That's right, Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Therefore the value remains zero. He couldn't find the one, so that the value of the zeroes at once increases.



*Atreya Ṛṣi: But there are some great scientists like Newton who studied many, many, many years and made many, many theories and then they gave it up when they realized that they couldn't go further. Newton, at a very early age, like forty*-three I think, went to a monastery.



Śyāmasundara: We discussed Newton's philosophy.



Prabhupāda: Sir Isaac Newton?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Long ago, in Africa.



Prabhupāda: No, he was Englishman.



Śyāmasundara: No, but in Africa we discussed his philosophy.



*Prabhupāda: He died at the age of twenty*-three. His picture is there in Westminster Abbey.



Śyāmasundara: His tomb, his grave. He is buried there.



Prabhupāda: Westminster Abbey has become now a museum.



Śyāmasundara: Graveyard and museum.



Prabhupāda: People go to see, tourist.



Śyāmasundara: I think it cost us sixteen shillings for us to see. Remember we saw King (indistinct). So they're making some money.



Prabhupāda: Yes. For some period, Elizabeth to Queen Victoria, the English nation advanced in so many ways. They wanted to record it that they are the greatest nation in the world. But the basic principle was how to get money from outside in London. That was the basic thing. By advertising there... Actually by nature they are very impoverished. They have no sufficient food, even; their nature. And they wanted to be greatest nation. By nature they are not very much favored. Now they are coming again in the lap of nature.



Śyāmasundara: Darwin's theory about them would be that because their environment was not very suitable for farming or mining, no natural resources, therefore their brains developed and they were able to survive.



*Prabhupāda: That we accept. That we accept, that we have to adjust things according to circumstances. That is acceptable. But finally, if God does not approve of it, it does not happen. Pratividhi. Pratividhi, counteraction. Tavat tanu*-bhrtāṁ tvad-upekṣitānām. Pratividhi. We make counteractivities for adjusting things, but unless it is approved by the Supreme Lord, that adjustment also will not be very much helpful. Bālasya neha pitarau nṛsiṁha. Just like a small child, the nature's way is the parent has got affection to take care. At that time, if the parents do not take care, the child cannot live. But the parents' taking care is not all. If the child is condemned by the Supreme Lord, in spite of the parents taking care, it will not be happy, or it will not exist. Parents' care is natural. Generally it so happens by the parents' care the child is happy, but in spite of parents' care the child is unhappy, then you have to go to the Lord. Is it not? Just like when a man is diseased, the counteraction is physician, medicine. Generally it is expected by attendance of good physician or using good medicine, diet, the patient becomes cured. But it is also seen that in spite of all careful attention, scientific medicine, he dies. Then what is that?



Śyāmasundara: Darwin would say he wasn't well enough equipped to survive.



Prabhupāda: That is the deficiency, that you will not be well equipped if Kṛṣṇa doesn't wish you to survive. That means you will not be able to counteract with all the counteractions. You cannot.



Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, Prabhupāda, nature's arrangements, you are saying is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. In other words, when Kṛṣṇa wishes something it happens in a natural way.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Not in an unnatural way, but in a natural way. But it is still Kṛṣṇa's desire.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is all just like a child is protected by the parents, that is also natural. But in spite of his taking care, the child dies, suffers, that is also natural.



Śyāmasundara: Just like some children are born with blood disease or some incurable disease; the parents take all care, but they still have to die young.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So then it is to be understood that different natural laws are working, and they are working under one controller, and that is God. Just like we are taking so many services from this electricity current, but all this electricity current are working under one leader in the powerhouse, the resident engineer. From him, the original electricity current is coming, is generated. And we are utilizing the same current in different varieties, purposes. So then, just like electric current, the same electric current working in this machine, in a way; *another machine another way. It may be contradiction, but the power is the same. According to the machine, the same example: one machine is cooler, one machine is heater, although the current is the same. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Everywhere God's energy is working as if natural.



*Śyāmasundara: Just like a tiger's body and a deer's body*-the tiger kills the deer, but the same current is working in both. One survives, one does not survive.



Prabhupāda: Nobody will survive. (laughter) This is called karma. This is activity. The body is the field of activity. You are given license to act with this body for some time. That's all. No question of survival. Nobody will survive. You can act for some time.



Śyāmasundara: By survival he means species. The species will survive.



Prabhupāda: Any species. Nobody will survive. That is also false theory. Nobody will survive. Where is the species that is surviving?



Śyāmasundara: Just like horses. Horses, they have found in the fossils and millions of years ago, they say millions of years ago horses were there. Slightly different forms, but still they were horses.



*Prabhupāda: So different forms, just like human beings, formerly they were very tall, and they are reducing their stature, and at the end of Kali*-yuga they will be stature like this. So this is not change of the species. This is changing, just like your father is taller than you, is he not? Is he not taller?



Śyāmasundara: No. I'm taller than he is. But they say because our generation got better foodstuffs than our parents.



Prabhupāda: So therefore, according to circumstances, the stature is changing. It is not the species. It is the same human, but formerly the human being was taller, stouter; now they are reducing in strength, in stature, in memory, in duration of life, span of life, in mercy. That is stated in *Bhāgavatam*. They do not change every species.



Atreya Ṛṣi: This changing of human size also may be a scientific thing, scientifically because of our conditions, because of our state of consciousness and because of the conditions...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Under certain conditions, changing.



Atreya Ṛṣi: And we will be changing, and this change will... [break]



*Śyāmasundara: ...research. They found that atomic particles vibrate at a certain frequency, a certain rate of vibration, and that elements such as lead, iron, all the different chemical elements, disintegrate gradually. The atomic particles vibrate out of the element and change the structure of the element gradually, and this is a constant*-what they call-life of the element, and the constant number of years before it disintegrates into some other element. So this life they have measured, and they have a table or a chart, and by this half-life formula they can determine how old a rock is by how quickly the isotopes are disintegrating. So according to their calculation, the layers of the earth go down for many millions of years; and in those lower layers, millions of years old, there is either no form of life or very, very simple forms of life only. There is no evidence of any complex forms.



*Prabhupāda: Bolo... (Bengali*-to Svarūpa Dāmodara)



Svarūpa Dāmodara: The age of the rocks, by determining by scientific techniques, find how old the rock (indistinct) is, and how correct it is. So I asked (indistinct) of this department, Professor Roland, and he told me that (indistinct) such and such, I mean the rocks coming from the moon, brought by astronauts. They calculate that by this (indistinct) technique, they find that they are about three to fourteen million years old, these rocks from the moon, the moon samples. But that does not give the real age of the rocks. He told me that what you call the age means how long that crystal... For example they tried to find out the crystals like iridium and strontium crystals, that the method that they use is strontium iridium technique and so he told me that the age, this age, about three times three billion years old, that means that crystal containing that iridium model has crystallized for that long year, that gives the age. They do not know how long it has been there



Śyāmasundara: The rock is at least three billion years; maybe it's older.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, maybe older, but it does not give the exact age. We do not know.



Śyāmasundara: But the point is that they have determined that there are rock structures in the earth very, very, very, very old and that these contain no evidence of any complex forms of life. So that if there is a statement that there were higher forms of life millions of years ago existing on this planet, there has been no evidence ever found of that.



Prabhupāda: So why they're trying to find out evidence from the rocks, not from any other source?



Śyāmasundara: Well as civilizations come and go, they leave remains, evidence behind of their...



Prabhupāda: "Civilization goes" means? Where goes?



Śyāmasundara: Well, if people come and they...



*Prabhupāda: Do they come, and they are still living? They are still there? Just like my great*-grand..., great-grandfather was living. So I am his descendant.



Śyāmasundara: But where is he?



Prabhupāda: Where is he? You want to see him? Therefore you (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: No. I want to find his remains.



*Prabhupāda: You want to see my great*-great-great-great-grandfather?



Śyāmasundara: But he must have left some remains.



Prabhupāda: I am the remaining. I am his descendant.



Śyāmasundara: But he made no tools, or he had no house?



Prabhupāda: Who said? You said. You said that there may not, but because my fore... I can make tools; naturally, my grandfather, he can make too. And what is there making tools?



Śyāmasundara: No. But why weren't there any tools left behind for us to find, remnants?



Prabhupāda: What?



Śyāmasundara: Why no remains of tools or other evidence of other men.



Prabhupāda: What is the use of tools? Tools are used for the carpenters, and we are not carpenters.



Śyāmasundara: But if there were high forms of men living...



Prabhupāda: Then he's (indistinct) with the carpenters, not the philosophers.



Śyāmasundara: ...they must have lived in cities.



Prabhupāda: My forefathers were philosophers. They did not require any tools.



Śyāmasundara: They required no houses?



Prabhupāda: No. Even they required, they called some carpenter and they did it.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. My point is that there...



Prabhupāda:Because there is no tools, therefore there is no civilization?



Śyāmasundara: But tools, not... Houses or anything that men have to use, there should be some remains left behind when their civilization...



Prabhupāda: What is remains? Remains means just like the coal, that is the remains.



Śyāmasundara: Coal.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Coal is the remains of trees, plants...



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the remains.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Coal, oil, petroleum.



Śyāmasundara: That means there was some evidence that there were... If we look in coal beds we find remains of trees that were very simple, no complex forms of trees. Now trees are much more complex.



Prabhupāda: Complex or simple, it doesn't matter. There were trees.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, the coal doesn't say whether the tree was complex or not.



Śyāmasundara: No, but they find impressions from leaves and the carboniferous age, they find that the remains of trees, plants, twigs, all very simple forms like our (indistinct). Today they're more...



*Prabhupāda: Our evidence is intelligence, not with tools and (indistinct). Our evidence is intelligence. We find, we get Vedic information by disciplic succession*-highly intelligent. So that is our evidence. Not the tools.



Śyāmasundara: The Scripture. The evidence which is written and spoken in...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is coming by śruti, by hearing. Just like Vyāsadeva heard from Nārada, Nārada heard from Brahmā, millions and millions of years ago. If you take, according to our calculation, Brahmā's age, Brahmā's one day we cannot calculate. It is now some, so many millions of years past, and still it is not even Brahmā's one day. So many millions of years. Because in Brahmā's one day seventy*-two..., fourteen, fourteen Manus come and go. And each Manu's age is seventy-two millennium. One millennium means 4,300,000's of years. So such seventy-two millennium makes complete one Manu's life, and there are fourteen Manus in Brahmā's one day. So millions and trillions and billions of years, that is not very astonishing to us, because it is not even one day of Brahmā. That Brahmā was born, and intelligent philosophy is still existing from the date of Brahmā's birth. Brahmā was first educated by God. That is our calculation. So we get in the Vedas such intelligent information; therefore we understand that our forefather was very, very learned(?).



Śyāmasundara: For instance, the Sanskrit language was so perfect...



Prabhupāda: Yes, Sanskrit language, everything, wonderful. So we are not carpenters, that we have to find out tools. We are brāhmaṇas.



Śyāmasundara: So if the earth is so old, for instance, it could have undergone many transformations...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. After one day of Brahmā there is devastation. So Brahmā lives for one hundred years according to his calculation. So each day there is devastation. So so many devastation passes in one month of Brahmā, then such twelve months makes one year, and such hundred years will be. So there is no calculation of devastation, how many devastations. In Brahmā's one day it is calculated 5,400 Manus are born in one month of Brahmā. So our calculation is like that. We are not very much amazed of hearing millions and trillions. It is nothing. In our historical reference is billions and trillions of years. They are nothing.



Śyāmasundara: So even though several million years ago they find no evidence in the rocks...



Prabhupāda: That does not mean that there is no civilization. That is their imperfect knowledge.



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, our so*-called modern scientific stories, knowledge is so empiric it's now (indistinct) on complete proof. It is always stands to have objectionable work, sides; *so it is not perfect at all. Just like from Śrīla Prabhupāda's book on the Easy Journey to Other Planets, Śrīla Prabhupāda mentioned the discovery of the anti*-proton, by the scientists who got the Nobel Prizes in 1959, and Prabhupāda gives all information from Bhagavad-gītā, anything, is already there; *Prabhupāda has said it. They say anti*-proton... They just discovered the anti-proton, but they still think it is some matter, that is not..., they say anti-proton but still they think that it is connected with matter. But Prabhupāda said it is not matter, it is spirit. Differentiation between matter and anti-matter. Matter is material thing; *anti*-matter is spirit or (indistinct). So Prabhupāda comments so nicely about the so-called modern scientists to do further research on this concept of anti-matter. Perhaps they will come to an understanding about the spirit, they come to a point. Our knowledge is what you call a modern scientific findings or evidences always subject to changes also...



*Prabhupāda: This must be changing because the instruments by which we acquire knowledge, they are imperfect. So by our so*-called research and sensuous acceptance of knowledge, that is never perfect. It cannot be perfect.



Śyāmasundara: Just like they say that the rate of disintegration of the atomic particles of an element is constant. But it may not be constant; perhaps in earlier times it was faster or slower, there are so many possibilities.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So the so*-called scientists and philosophers who do not follow the system of (sic:) ascending knowledge, knowledge received from higher authorities, they are not perfect. They cannot have any perfect knowledge, either research work with the blunt imperfect senses. They will not... So whatever they say, we take it as imperfect-dream. And when Kṛṣṇa says that "I enter into the universes," viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Now the weightlessness of the planets, the scientists describe in so many ways, but that is not very perfect. What is the cause of weightlessness? I have, what is called, (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: That because of the orbits, different orbits of the planets cause weightlessness.



Karandhara: Centrifugal force.



Prabhupāda: Centrifugal.



Śyāmasundara: When planets go around the sun they go in such a speed, that there is no mass.



*Prabhupāda: So, but who has set on the speed? How the speed is going on? That is not explained. But we have got our explanation. Kṛṣṇa says that "I enter into each and every universe and planet, and I keep them floating." That is understandable. Just like we have, in our childhood we used to, I mean to say, fly paper balloon by forcing into it some camphor smoke. Did you do it? We did this in our childhood. Such a big paper balloon, and then you take camphor, so much, and we struck up and burn it, and camphor is burning, it is producing too much*-what is called-black smoke; and it becomes big, big smoke, it goes, very nice. So if the camphor smoke entered into the paper balloon can fly it, then God cannot fly all the universes by entering into it?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another example is lot of these astronauts going to the moon, and sometimes they are afraid, they call the transition from the earth's gravitational force and the moon's gravitational force, there is a layer, this transition from one to another it is very critical. So they said that when the, these rockets or these Apollo instruments either go up or go down, they have to go to a certain angle, very specific, and if the angle is slightly changed, so they'll be either circulating the moon or either they'll be circulating the earth. They'll never be able to come down or go up, but they'll be floating like... There's no control.



Prabhupāda: Without any control.



Śyāmasundara: Because where the two gravitational pulls meet, there is a certain force. If you don't pass through it at the right angle, then you are caught in it.



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: If you are not going right in the angle, say for example he has to go..., he's coming down so he has to go at 45*-degree angles, slanting; *he has to go 45*-degree angle, but it changed by mistake, say 47 degree angles, then it will never come down. He'll be just circulating around, floating.



Prabhupāda: So, in the (indistinct) stage, we are dependent on the laws of nature, and we still, we are declaring we are free from any control. We are making our own proposition and theories.



Karandhara: They're always saying their conquest over nature.



Prabhupāda: But where is the conquest of nature? Now if there is a mistake of two degrees, you have to go round forever. What is the independence? Vikathante. The exact word used in this connection in the Bhāgavata, that these people talks all nonsense, vikatha. Under the influence of illusory energy they have become mad, and they are talking all nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: I didn't know we were going to have a class today, but for the next class I wanted to read that article about heredity, genetics, how they think that they might be able to reproduce life in the future.



Prabhupāda: Again "in future."



Śyāmasundara: I have that article, I want to read it and study it first. I wasn't prepared for today.



Prabhupāda: The future... Any fool can say "In future I shall prove." Then what is the difference between scientists and the fool? "Trust no future, however pleasant."



Śyāmasundara: But Darwin is the one who introduced this whole concept that we are evolving towards something better.



Prabhupāda: That we accept. That we accept. Just like we are now in human form of life. Now we can go, can make our position better. Either we go in so many higher planetary systems or we go to Vaikuṇṭha.



Śyāmasundara: In terms of species actually living on this planet, he thinks that we have come up from apes, now we may go up to higher forms of men or species.



Prabhupāda: That is already... The apes are already there. You are also there.



Karandhara: Their idea is that if they can sufficiently understand this process of evolution and know its principles then they can control it, they can manipulate it to their own ends.



Prabhupāda: There is information.



Karandhara: They can produce their own eternal superhuman being. They know how...



Prabhupāda: Superhuman... Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they are superhuman being. They are (indistinct).



Karandhara: They had a big meeting recently in Europe of the foremost scientists, chemists, physicists and researchers, and they predicted that by the year 2050, the scientists will be able to make the superhuman eternal human being. Then they started asking themselves, "Well, who will decide? Who will play God? If we can make an eternal person or manipulate, who will decide?" What if they make a hundred Hitlers or some demoniac scientists who knows how to do this makes a hundred Hitlers. So even if their whole thing is (indistinct), they'll misuse whatever power they acquire by understanding the laws of nature. They've misused the atomic energy.



Prabhupāda: They can produce for human being, many (indistinct)?



Śyāmasundara: They call it the genetical xerox machine.



*Karandhara: They can analyze someone's genes. Say they take my genes and analyze their chemical structure. They can reproduce that structure and make a hundred me's, just like me*-the same brain, the same body, the same mentality, everything.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. But who made you? Just like I have written one letter; you can make a hundred copies. But I have written the letter. Similarly, there may be hundreds of copies of your personality, but who made you?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) about the genetic code (indistinct) concerned persons taking our material (indistinct) some people are more intelligent than others, like scientists, Einstein said he had a different brain than other people.



Prabhupāda: Our explanation is that from previous life he is modeled. That is coming. It's continuation.



Śyāmasundara: So Darwin said that also, that one's superior traits are passed on to his children, like that. And then the superior traits survive over the inferior traits, and so on.



Prabhupāda: And where he goes? After transferring to the children, where Mr. Darwin goes?



Śyāmasundara: He disintegrates into matter.



Karandhara: It's total materialism because there's no spirit, just a combination of material elements.



Prabhupāda: Then if you are going again to be mixed with the elements, then why you are bothering your head about your children?



Śyāmasundara: He's concerned on a social level...



Prabhupāda: In the beginning, in the beginning you are in the matter. By evolution you have come to, again you are going to the matter. So why you bother in the middle so much. After all, you are matter. In the beginning you are matter and at the end you're going to be matter.



Śyāmasundara: He's concerned that the society can be made better by this understanding.



Prabhupāda: So why do you concern with the society? You are going to be (indistinct). It may be better or no, but it doesn't matter.



Śyāmasundara: He had a vague idea that societies or species would evolve toward something better, so he wanted to help that evolution.



Prabhupāda: That is a fact, but not that Mr. Darwin's foolish theory that he is going to be matter. He'll remain spirit but another species of life, another form of life. That another form of life will decide whether you are degraded or elevated.



Śyāmasundara: Darwin passed on his traits to his son, Charles Darwin, and his son's great contribution to the world was that the moon was moving away from the earth at the rate of five inches per year. So what good is that knowledge?



Prabhupāda: What kind..., in what way you give such an evolution? It may be ten inches or five inches or (indistinct). That conclusion anyone can give. Any rascal can say anything, and what is the contribution? Just like modern day art. You just make your brush like this and it becomes art. You see?



Śyāmasundara: Relative values.



Prabhupāda: Relative values. Now you imagine what is there. This is the mentality.



Śyāmasundara: There's no absolute scale of value in the material world.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're speculating that the genes of these supposedly very intelligent people...



Prabhupāda: The superhuman being is already there in what we call demigods. Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, Indra, Candra, they are superhuman beings, already there. What he will make? Let him make one ant first of all. Let me see that you have made one ant; then talk of superhuman. You have not been able to create even an ant, so how do you dare to say superhuman. It is all foolishness.



Karandhara: According to modern information, man now is living longer, is more healthy and is more well off than ever before.



*Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. I have seen my grandmother lived ninety-six years, but I don't expect I shall live ninety-six years. My father did not live more than eighty*-one years; so gradually the span of life is decreasing. They are not healthy enough. Decreasing means they are not getting proper food or proper bodily comforts; therefore they're decreasing their life.



Śyāmasundara: Their statistics are so open to error there's no way they can say...



Karandhara: They baffle the population. Everyone believes "Now I'm living longer. I have more chances to live a healthy life than ever before." They think this is what this modern society gives him, a chance to live longer.



Śyāmasundara: By discovering new medicines and new techniques to improve our health.



Prabhupāda: So where is the medicine which stops disease? You are discovering medicine, and many new diseases are coming out, so where is the stopper?



Karandhara: That's supposed to come. That is the promise.



Prabhupāda: Promise, a fool can promise anything. And...



Śyāmasundara: And instead all they do is...



Prabhupāda: That is a different thing.



Śyāmasundara: ...add more wars.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: President Nixon has made a promise that very shortly this cancer disease should be cured. So he has allotted a lot of money for the coming few years and he is giving to all scientists (indistinct). He is saying he is going to stop this death from cancer, but...



Prabhupāda: Suppose he stops death from cancer. Can he stop death at all?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not at all.



Prabhupāda: Well then? What is it? He'll direct some other disease come?



Śyāmasundara: If Darwin's theory is correct, some new form of cancer will evolve which will survive...



Prabhupāda: Why? Any disease will be (indistinct). You can check the disease. Therefore our conclusion is that however scientifically you advanced you make, you cannot stop birth, death, old age and disease. That is our conclusion. So why should we waste our time for that purpose? We are utilizing our time, and after giving up this body we may go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our business. But everyone has to give up his body. Mr. Darwin and his company will give up this body like cats and dog. We shall give up this body for higher elevation of life. Therefore our philosophy is better, far better than all these things.



*Śyāmasundara: There's a corollary to his theory of evolution that our standards of morality have also evolved from primitive stages. For instance, in a group, within a group of apelike creatures who were normally fighting with each other for dominance, one may develop the quality of sympathy for someone else. So by that sympathy he cooperates with the other person and together they survive when the others die. So that evolution of sympathy, morality, love, compassion*-the good qualities of the human being-have evolved due to necessity, evolution, survival of the fittest.



Karandhara: The thing is this whole perspective of evolution... There doesn't have to be a sequence, that one came before the other. They all were there.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Karandhara: Just like you take a ray of the sunshine that's in this room. It's come from the sun, but simultaneously it's occurring with the sun. It's not there as a sequential evolution of that particle...



Prabhupāda: The sunshine, sunshine... Just like sunshine. You can collect time according to the sunshine. The morning sun shining is called 6 a.m., and then 7 a.m., 8 a.m., 9 a.m., like that. The shine. But this 6 a.m. shining will be somewhere else also, although here it is 8 a.m.



Śyāmasundara: That's a relative measurement.



Prabhupāda: So the sunshine is existing always the same. It is relatively understood by others. Otherwise sun is fixed up in his position and is shining all over the world.



Śyāmasundara: The speed of light is constant also, it is said.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It does not change as it reaches. When it may reach, it is already there.



Śyāmasundara: It takes one particle of sunlight eight minutes to travel from the sun to here.



Prabhupāda: That may be, but the sun's...



Svarūpa Dāmodara: This constant can be taken (indistinct) astronomy (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Anyway, the sunbeam, the sunshine, is always (indistinct). How it is constantly coming? Just like heat and the fire. The heat is always coming out of the fire, always.



Karandhara: According to a point of observation, there may appear to be a sequence, or a beginning or an end or an evolution...



*Śyāmasundara: If we look back*-say our written history goes back three thousand years-if we look back within that span, according to Darwin, our levels of consciousness are getting increasingly higher.



Prabhupāda: No. We say lower. We say lower. Degraded.



Karandhara: They're basing their quality on whether there's a better level of consciousness and what is more (indistinct) sense gratification.



Śyāmasundara: Technical advancements, scientific. Actually, morality...



Prabhupāda: ...is degrading.



Śyāmasundara: ...hasn't evolved. The ancient Greeks had a much higher standard of morality than the British or Darwin's time.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) degrading (indistinct). We see every day, every moment.



Prabhupāda: So we have seen in our childhood, they're also. No voucher or receipt. I'll tell you one little story. My father was dealing in cloth. So supposing he has come, my customer, he wants so many things. So I haven't got stock all of these things, but I wrote down his order, that you are market broker, I say just get these things immediately from the market. You go to the particular person who has got the stock and you order him to my shop, "Such and such you send me." So you have ordered for say twenty, fifty men. So their men are coming with a load of cloth, and he'll simply ask the firm's name: "This is Rajaram (indistinct)?" And someone declares, "Yes, yes, yes." But no voucher. He simply asks whether this firm is Rajaram (indistinct), and somebody nods, "Yes, yes." So he drops the bundle of cloth. It may be five hundred, or thousand rupees' worth or more than that. So similarly, many porters drop, because I require so many things. Now, you are my broker, you come, you see the stack of cloth, you ask my clerk, "Just credit this from such and such firm." But firm has sent without any voucher, without any (indistinct), and the porter simply asks whether this is the same firm, and somebody nods and we (makes noise like stamping something), that's all. Then you come, you pick up so many bundles, "Just note down, 'This has come from such and such firm.' " You note down. Then my clerk notes it. This is transaction. And out of many such bundles, you find that you did not order this, "Wherefrom it came? It is not mine." So we set aside. Three days after, one (indistinct) comes, "Sir, on such and such date I dropped a bundle here which did not belong to you, so please give me this back." "Oh, you will see there are so many. What is yours you can take back." And he picks up, "Sir, this is my bundle," "All right, take it." He's unknown, but simply he comes and says that "I dropped one bundle here which does not belong to you. By mistake I dropped it," and I say, "Yes. So many bundles there are, you can take whatever is yours." This was the transaction. Then on the due payment day, those who supplied the cloths, they come to take payment and they say, "Sir, on such and such day, such and such cloth was supplied to you." No voucher, nothing. I open my book: "Yes, yes. That's all right." So he says that "This is the price and so much money is due payment." So he calculates, "Yes." So he pays the money and then, when taking money, he puts a stamp and he signs on the book. Now in the meantime, so many transactions we'll see, how much faithfully it was going on. So how much we have now became degraded: we supply something to somebody, we take three copies of voucher; one he takes, one we keep on book, one he gives (indistinct); *then also he will try also, cheat, again. So much morally we have improved. I am speaking, say within, when I am child's age, now I am seventy*-six. I may be fourteen, fifteen years old, like that. Fifty years ago these things were going on. Fifty or sixty. Sixty years ago the business dealings was so easy and plain.



*Śyāmasundara: So to become increasingly complex*-now we have computers and all-doesn't necessarily mean we are becoming more and more superior.



Prabhupāda: No. They are becoming more inferior. There is no necessity of computer machine.



Śyāmasundara: So even though there may be an evolution from simple to more complex, there's no evolution from inferior to superior.



*Prabhupāda: That is not improvement. No. Now human society has become very complex. I don't trust you, you don't trust me. I keep my dog so that you may not come in my house-"Beware of Dogs"*-and if you enter I can fire you, there is law. So what is this (indistinct)? Therefore we get from our śāstra that even you will receive your enemy at home, you will receive him so friendly way that he'll forget that you are his enemy. Gṛhaṁ satram api prāptaṁ visvastham akuto 'bhayam. He should feel himself so confidential that he's not near his enemy. His dealing and behavior are so nice. The morality is that "Whatever you may be, you have come to my house, you are my guest, so I must offer you all kinds of hospitality, never mind you are my enemy. Now you are my guest." So how much ethically improved the society was. "Yes. We are enemy, so when we fight we shall fight like enemies. But now we have come to my home, you are my guest, honorary guest, I must receive you with honor." That was being done Mahābhārata time.



*Śyāmasundara: In the ancient times, the Neanderthal man, the Cro-Magnon man*-they always are saying that these people were killers and hunters; they had to kill to survive.



Prabhupāda: That is Darwin's philosophy, not my philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: But there is no difference between the oldest cavemen and the men today. We're still killing, still hunting, still fighting. Same things.



*Prabhupāda: No. Suppose just like Jesus Christ instructed his disciples, "Thou shall not kill." Say two thousand years ago in the Western countries, the men were killers, that's all. But we'll see Bhagavad*-gītā, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa is arguing that "If our women become widows then they'll be polluted. There will be varṇa-saṅkara, unwanted children, the society will go to hell." How much elevated society. Five thousand years ago. It is a question of place. It is a question of place. If Darwin says... Here in the Bible it is said that "Thou shall not kill," so that means two thousand years ago they were simply killers. That does not mean five thousand years there were no highly elevated personalities. That is his lack of studying. He is too much localized. He has no broadened knowledge, neither he has studied all the books, contemporary books; therefore he has poor fund of knowledge. He's very poor in his knowledge. Just like, still, there are many Americans... You Americans are completely different from others. You cannot say that all the Americans are drunkards and irresponsible; therefore, they are also. Side by side some moral is still there. You don't drink; you don't take meat; you are all God conscious; side by side there is. So how you can write history that "Such and such, 1971, '72, all Americans were LSD"? How you can conclude like that?



Śyāmasundara: They may find three or four bodies...



Prabhupāda: Even they may find one, they cannot conclude.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Right. That's all. They can't tell from three or four samples what everything was like.



Prabhupāda: That's not possible.



Karandhara: Just like if five thousand years from now some archeologists came to Los Angeles, which is all covered over, who knows what they may dig up? They may dig up a monkey who lived in a zoo, they may dig up the mayor of Los Angeles, they may dig up anything. What will they conclude from their findings? That all of Los Angeles was made up of monkeys?



Prabhupāda: It is simply poor fund of knowledge. He is going to give us knowledge, but he is very, very poor in his knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: Actually, most of the men that they've dug up from ancient times were dumb hunters who died in some hunting accident anyway. They were a lower nature man. But I am still not clear about why they have never found out any remains of cities or ancient civilizations that were highly...



Prabhupāda: That is no reason. Suppose...



Karandhara: Actually they have. There are a number of archaeologists who have made findings like, particularly one, I can't remember his name, but he did an elaborate investigation on the Egyptian culture. And his thesis was that their culture was far more advanced than ours. They had mathematical techniques, they had...



Prabhupāda: Ajanta Caves. Ajanta Caves. Why that is? So artistic. He's unfortunate, he's simply excavated caves...



Śyāmasundara: I read about the paint in that cave. They don't know how it's still preserved. There's no chemical that they have today that will preserve paint so long.



Prabhupāda: So he's unfortunate. He could not find out Ajanta Cave; he found out some monkey's cave, that's all.



Karandhara: The Egyptians had geometric techniques that they're even..., they don't understand. They discount them...



Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda said that they took that from the Indians, geometry.



Karandhara: But this one archaeologist wrote a book saying that this community in Egypt three thousand years ago was far superior, and no one accepted. No one believed him.



Śyāmasundara: Even in Mexico there are so many highly advanced...



Prabhupāda: Mexico is Indian civilization. They were showing to (indistinct). The Rāvaṇa had subway to Brazil. It can be seen from here where you can make subway...



Śyāmasundara: Yes, straight through.



Prabhupāda: Straight through. And therefore Rāvaṇa had so much gold; *he took it from his brother's kingdom. Partly it was all one kingdom, and one part was being managed by his brother (indistinct) and one by himself. And in the Rāmāyaṇa it is said that Rāma*-Lakṣmaṇa was taken to a subway to (indistinct) Rāvaṇa's place; *that means Rāma and Lakṣmaṇa was taken to Brazil through subway. So now if you can make subways now*-in Russia there is subway for five hundred miles-then why not five thousand miles? What is the difficulty? If it is possible to make subway up to five hundred, why not five thousand? It will require so many things.



Śyāmasundara: They say that the center of the earth is molten fire, fiery. It is liquid. Liquid fire.



Karandhara: (indistinct) insulated tube, insulated tube through the fire.



Prabhupāda: No. That portion may be avoided.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. Go around the crust.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore "I am going in subway, now here is the hard column, so I go this way." What is, what is that?



Śyāmasundara: If the worms can do it, why we can't?



Prabhupāda: Rats can do it. Snake can do it. Not snake. Snakes cannot. Rats can do. [break]



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the knowledge that we get from the so*-called scientific theories of...



Prabhupāda: Poor fund of knowledge.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...consciousness, and the theory of...



Śyāmasundara: Are scientists beginning to understand that fact, or are they still...?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: They never think about that. That's why they are trying to find out so many things, because they think that when somebody tries to make something medicine or some compound, they try so many ways and means, and sometimes, when they are at a loss, they say, "O God, please give me (indistinct)." They do not know where it comes from, how this can be made. They try so many ways in making a compound. Sometimes they have to take a hundred or two hundred mistakes, and sometimes they will never get the compound. Ultimately when they are all disappointed, they say, "O God, please help me." So ordinarily the final conclusion is everybody (indistinct) supreme being.



*Prabhupāda: And that is natural because, after all, God gives him his intelligence. It is stated in Bhagavad*-gītā: mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: [Bg. 15.15] "It is from Me." Apohanaṁ ca. He was forgetting. That was also..., God was not giving the chance, and he prays to God, then God is kind: "All right, do it like that." That is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: But as soon as they get a compound, then they forget God.



Śyāmasundara: Darwin did that. He made the appearance and disappearance of animals' bodies seem so mechanically arranged that God was removed from the picture, and it appeared as if combinations of ingredients created animals and they evolved from each other.



*Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Combination means God. He is combining. Combination does not take automatically. Suppose I am cooking. There are so many ingredients for cooking*-they are not combined together. I am the cooker; I am cooking, first of all oil, and the spices, then the rice, then the dahl, then the water. In this way nice foodstuff is coming out. So this combination means God. Otherwise where is the instant the combination is taking place? I place all the ingredients in the kitchen room, and after one hour if I go, "Oh, where is my food?" (laughing) You nonsense, who is cooking your food? You starve. Just take help of a living being, then he'll cook and then you can eat. This is our experience. So why does he say combination? Wherefrom the combination comes? He is such a fool he does not know how combination takes place.



Śyāmasundara: There are several theories in that book of yours. Where is that book about the origin of life? There are several theories how everything began. They are quite interesting.



Prabhupāda: That is theory, but we see practically that material things, material elements, ingredients, they cannot be combined automatically. There must be a living entity who will combine them.



Śyāmasundara: One of the theories is that everything comes out of energy.



Prabhupāda: Energy means somebody's energy. I am sitting here, I am pushing one button, the energy is immediately created, and it goes. Just like this telex machine. So somebody is pushing the button.



Karandhara: The energetic.



Prabhupāda: And then energy, immediately produced. Computer machine, the machine is doing nothing out of his own accord. Somebody is going and pushing the button. Then it will..., the energy is created. Similarly, according to our Vedic knowledge, as soon as God wishes, immediately the energy is set off, set into action, and then other things come automatically.



Karandhara: In the trend of the scientists is that by their scientific research and their limited success which they enjoy, they are becoming more and more convinced that there is no God. They say everything is due to physical law.



*Prabhupāda: No. That is the proof that they are saying there is no God, because as soon as God would withdraw the speaking power, he would not be able to speak*-there is no power.



Śyāmasundara: This book is called The Creation of the Universe.



Prabhupāda: It is a scientific book?



Śyāmasundara: Oh, yes.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is written by a scientist from Colorado(?) University.



Prabhupāda: So he does not agree God created?



Śyāmasundara: Oh, no.



Prabhupāda: So there was a chunk.



Śyāmasundara: "The hierarchy of condensations." There are two theories: one is that everything was originally gas, and the other is that everything was originally turbulence or energy.



Prabhupāda: Originally gas. Now, so far we have got our experience, gas is produced from some liquid, is it not?



Śyāmasundara: They say that the liquid is produced from the gas.



Prabhupāda: That is also taught by us.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything, what was there in the beginning, that was matter.



Śyāmasundara: This says, "After the first complement of the atomic species had been formed during the first hour of expansion, nothing of particular interest happened for the next thirty million years." This is the... They have it all...



Prabhupāda: Where is the evidence that he is speaking the truth?



Śyāmasundara: The making of atoms.



Karandhara: They say that something came out of nothing, that originally there was nothing, at a point in history there was nothing, and at a point in history something began.



*Śyāmasundara: Well, it says that there was a "frozen equilibrium and a spontaneous break*-up of primordial nuclear fluid. The original state of matter is assumed to be a hot nuclear gas, ylen, y-l-e-n."



Prabhupāda: So first thing is that whatever he is speaking, what is the evidence for his word is to be accepted by us?



Karandhara: For most people it is just his word. Whatever his contemporary scientists conclude, he offers some insignificant evidence.



Prabhupāda: If words are to be accepted as true, why not accept the words of Kṛṣṇa? Who can be greater authority than Kṛṣṇa? If your word does not require any evidence, you are a renowned scientist, your words are sufficient, then greater scientist, greater personality is Kṛṣṇa. Then why should we not accept His words? We do not know what it is, but you are presenting there in bombastic words and we have to accept your word. Is it not? So I will say that instead of accepting your words, why not accept Kṛṣṇa's word? He's greater personality.



Karandhara: Someone will come along in a year or a few years and refute everything that this scientist says.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That we say.



Śyāmasundara: There are three different theories, each one different. They all start with an original situation of like a chunk, a hot gas measured in billions of degrees of temperature, and out of that hot gas things condense.



Karandhara: That's not starting from the beginning...



Śyāmasundara: It was called a frozen equilibrium.



Karandhara: If there's an equilibrium, there has to be some principle, or energetic.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think the book is written just so that the (indistinct) looks like, funny things broken down. He himself says whether the universe is finite or infinite (indistinct) modern telescopic experiments can (indistinct) but beyond that he said maybe the universe is finite (indistinct) that is beyond our knowledge, beyond our capacity.



Śyāmasundara: This is a diagram of four different possibilities of what the universe looks like.



*Prabhupāda: This is very nice*-horse saddle.



Śyāmasundara:The round one?



Prabhupāda: No, no the next.



Śyāmasundara:This one?



Prabhupāda: This one.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, they call it a saddle.



Prabhupāda: It is convenient to ride over.



Śyāmasundara: Masters of the universe.



Karandhara: They could make a thousand different drawings.



Śyāmasundara: These are all based on mathematical principles. Because they have observed that the universe is expanding, so they are trying to figure out what shape it is expanding into.



*Karandhara: That information is also in the Vedas: as Mahā*-Viṣṇu breathes out, the universes expand, and as Mahā-Viṣṇu breathes in, the universes contract.



Śyāmasundara: It says, "It can be shown that a closed Einsteinian universe can expand only to a certain limit, beyond which the expansion will go over into contraction." So they also agree that the universe expands and contracts.



Prabhupāda: Expand means it was not in its present state. Original state was in seed.



Śyāmasundara: That seed they say was a hot gas.



Prabhupāda: So the seed is so powerful that it has become a universe. So who made that seed, wonderful seed? And wherefrom it came? What is the tree? What is the fruit? Wherefrom seed comes? So many questions are there.



*Svarūpa Dāmodara: The so*-called modern increased living taught by people who have the ideas of these things. The result is they are always led by people who think like that. Because like Śrīla Prabhupāda said on some of the letters, "The blind men leading the blind."



Prabhupāda: They accept blind men leading them.



*Karandhara: They say the empiric mind just, you cannot accept revelation, that revelation isn't experimental to our limited knowledge, or to our knowledge. The hard*-core scientist doesn't want to listen to revelation or what he considers theoretical spiritual knowledge, because he can't examine it or experiment with it himself; therefore he considers it a waste of time. If he can't see it or understand it with his mind, he doesn't think that it has any bearing or importance.



Prabhupāda: So scientific brain means ultimately becoming a fool. He'll talk all nonsense. Once he is recognized scientist, then he can talk all nonsense, and the people accept it as scientific truth.



Śyāmasundara: They say that our planet, along with all of the other stars and bodies in this universe, is about five billion years old. They have calculated in several ways. One of the ways they have calculated the age of our oceans to be five billion, and the age of our oldest rocks, along with the way that the stars are distributing themselves, that they must be five billion years old. [break] Could you repeat that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I want to record it.



Prabhupāda: The Western philosophers and historians, in order to support Darwin's theory of anthropology, has never agreed to accept that the Vedic literatures written long, long years ago, but these less intelligent philosophers and theologists, their theory has been also dismantled by the discovery of this Ajanta Cave. From that cave it was very, very intelligent; as they are excavating other part, simply studying the bones. But there is other side also, this is also excavation; and it can be proved that very intelligent persons were there.



Śyāmasundara: I read about a column near Delhi that they found, made of some metal, that has been there for many, many thousands of years.



Prabhupāda: Many such things have been discovered, and besides that, they are searching after dead bones, and we are searching after living brains. So which should we consider better? Now this Vālmīki *Rāmāyaṇa*, it was written at least eight hundred, five thousands of years ago.



Śyāmasundara: Eight hundred times five thousand?



Prabhupāda: No. Eight hundred thousand and five thousand.



Śyāmasundara: 850,000 years.



Prabhupāda: Eight hundred thousands of years and five thousands of years.



Śyāmasundara: 805,000 years.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Long, long ago the Vedic knowledge was there. The Brahma*-saṁhitā, it is to be understood, written by Brahmā millions and millions of years ago.



Śyāmasundara: In all of our Western history they never once referred to the Indian civilization.



Prabhupāda: Because they will be defeated. Because they will be defeated. They never recognize. That was British policy. Britishers wanted to... That is the cause of degradation of Indian culture. They manufactured such a... Even Dr. Radhakrishnan is a victim of that policy. They wanted to impress upon the Indians that before the arrival of the Britishers we were almost uncivilized: "We have made you civilized." And these rascal leaders, they accepted. That was their policy. Because they are very intelligent people. Lord Macauley (said): "If you keep them as they are, you will never be able to rule over them." And later on also, when Gandhi started that "Noncooperate with these rascals, they will go away. They are by force getting our cooperation and killing us." So noncooperate. Therefore he established the noncooperation movement. And Sir (indistinct), one of the greatest diplomats, statesmen of India, he said that "This is a very dangerous movement. Try to cut down this movement. Otherwise, if one percent of the Indian people noncooperate, it will not be possible for us to rule over this country." So in order to get our cooperation they are simply impressing that before the arrival of the Britishers, Indians were uncivilized. So many books they published. One American prostitute wrote Mother India.



Devotee: I saw that book



Prabhupāda: Yes, simply blaspheming Indian temples, culture, priest, like that. Gandhi remarked on that book, "Drain Inspector's Report." And he has simply picked up the bad side. Sometimes these priests in the temple, they make some bad behavior with woman; she has picked up this, not the better side.



Śyāmasundara: Practically, until now, no one except you has brought Indian culture out.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: No one has known before that they had high culture.



Prabhupāda: No. Because regular propaganda. And all the swamis and yogis, they also rascals, they brought some yoga system, exercises, like that.



Śyāmasundara: No philosophy...



Prabhupāda: No philosophy, no culture. As we are touching now everything: sociology, politics, religion, culture, philosophy, everything, completely. Just like we are discussing now this Pṛthu Mahārāja's kingdom, how nice it is.



Śyāmasundara: Today when we were looking at the Sanskrit ślokas, I suddenly realized that this very strict form of śloka made it easy to memorize for the people.



Prabhupāda: Yes, oh yes.



Śyāmasundara: Therefore they were always...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That Sanskrit śloka is so made that if you repeatedly chant five, six times, it will be memorized. And once it is memorized, you will never forget it.



Śyāmasundara: Then you can pass it down and you don't have to write it.



Prabhupāda: No. That requires only memory. That was the system, śruti. Once hears from the spiritual master, it is memorized for good. The memory was so sharp, and the memory was prepared by this brahmācārya.



*Śyāmasundara: And the grammatical rules are so arranged to make it easy to memorize*-natural rhythm.



Prabhupāda: Natural, quite natural, natural rhythm. It's not artificial.



Śyāmasundara: Whereas our Western poems are all so many different lines, lengths, rhythms, you can't remember them.



Prabhupāda: There is no standard. There is Trayita Darpana(?), there is a book, you can... So many words, the first pronunciation five, second pronunciation seven, like that. There's different kinds of (indistinct), sandhi.



Śyāmasundara: So it's meant for hearing and memorizing.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You can sing also very nicely, sing also, like songs, with tamboura. It is very nice. (sings:) Cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa, like that, it is very nice. In every temple there should be, one man should play on tamboura and chant. It requires nice pronunciation, and with the sound of tamboura it will be (indistinct). People are coming, offering darśana, and the singing is going on. That is the system in Indian temples. It immediately vibrates.



Śyāmasundara: Do you suppose that the British supported Darwin so that that would also help their political ambitions, by introducing...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. These British wanted that all the big men born in their nation-all big scientists, all big philosophers, all big politicians*-they are God's selected persons; therefore they must rule over the world. That was their program.



Śyāmasundara: And by putting out this book, The Origin of Species, they at once did away with God to be able to... After that Nietzsche, another philosopher who said, "God is dead," he made that statement first, right after Darwin's book came out: "God is dead."



Prabhupāda: So we have to fight against all these nonsense philosophers.



Śyāmasundara: That boy Svarūpa Dāmodara is going to move into the temple for a few days, and each day we will discuss a different scientific topic. Tomorrow genetics, and something else.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He is a scientist. He will talk technical words.



Śyāmasundara: He is going to bring all of his books. And I also studied science for many years, so if I refresh, and if all of the students become armed with these arguments, they can defeat any scientist.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes.



Śyāmasundara: Normally they are unable to answer scientists. It is difficult to answer scientists for some devotees, because they have such strong arguments.



Prabhupāda: This point should be stressed, that he is dealing with dead bones, and we are dealing with living brains.



*Śyāmasundara: Just like Bhagavad*-gītā is so perfectly written, so perfectly conceived.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. And also there is Bhāgavata, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, everything, everything; every, Purāṇas.



Śyāmasundara: No barbarian could have ever conceived...



*Prabhupāda: They have presented all these books as*-what is called-allegory.



Śyāmasundara: Fiction, allegory.



*Prabhupāda: Story. And the so*-called swamis, they have also accepted like this. Therefore you can interpret in your own way. If it is a fact, how you can interpret it? But we are presenting as it is, fact. That is our business.



Śyāmasundara: They present so many newspapers every day and say this is fact, but it's lies, so many lies.



Prabhupāda: Even Dr. Radhakrishnan has said mental speculation is a big thing, of the Western propaganda.



Śyāmasundara: I think he said it is the crowning achievement of speculative thought.



Prabhupāda: He has said like that?



*Śyāmasundara: "Bhagavad*-gītā is the crowning achievement of speculative thought," as if some sages thought it up.



*Prabhupāda: Now what is there? Finished. [break] ...fact. It is known to the Vedic culture millions of years ago. (indistinct) I was reading, aśitiṁ caturaś caiva, this is Brahmā*-vaivarta Purāṇa and this Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa was written by Vyāsadeva five thousand years ago. And it was known long, long years ago. It was written in the Purāṇas, but it was coming by tradition long, long ago. So (indistinct). He has stolen this theory, this idea, from Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa, and he has tried to prove it in a different way. Otherwise this evolutionary theory is already there.



aśitiṁ caturaś caiva

*lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva*-jātiṣu

bhramadbhiḥ (puruṣaiḥ prāpyaṁ

*mānuṣyaṁ janma*-paryayāt)



Śyāmasundara: But Darwin doesn't have any conception of the jīva.



Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He sees only the bodies are changing.



*Prabhupāda: Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone, that is also mentioned there. Teṣām ātma vimanuna (indistinct). Foolish. Child. Child thinks "I am this body." (indistinct) means fools. Ātma vimanu: "I am this body." Animal thinks that "I am this body." Virakara (indistinct) ātmā vinanena anāśrita. They do not know what is my position. Misleading.



Śyāmasundara: There is a scientific subject which has become very popular now, called genetics, which has to do with the origins of life.



*Prabhupāda: Well these so*-called scientific theories are popular now and unpopular after few years. That's all. Again something popular. They are not science. Science cannot be popular now and unpopular after some days.



Śyāmasundara: But it's only because they have just discovered it.



Prabhupāda: Discovering, partial, that's like... They cannot discover. The things are there passing on, so many things, passing on.



*Śyāmasundara: What it means in essence is that they have analyzed the individual cell of the living entity and they have found in each cell a set of genes, forty*-six in each cell. These genes contain the blueprint for the whole body, like the seed of a tree contains the whole tree. So it is possible, they say, by rearranging these genes or changing them slightly that a new type of person can come out, or a new type of living entity, from the original.



Prabhupāda: Definitely. What we call the jīva, they might be talking of the jīva or genes. The genes, the jīva, they can have any nice type of body.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Can the scientists control that, the type of genes, the kinds of body, the child will get? The theory is...



*Prabhupāda: Not theory... Just like we give dimension of the soul, so that statement is given by some man. Just like one ten*-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, we get information from the Purāṇas. So this statement is also given by a man, but he is not ordinary. He is not ordinary. So any extraordinary man can give it.



Śyāmasundara: These genes are visible through a microscope, so they are not...



*Prabhupāda: This is also visible. When I say that one ten*-thousandth part of the hair, it is visible. Otherwise how I say? But it may not be visible to you. (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: I mean these genes are not the same as the jīva in this case.



Prabhupāda: That is different thing. But jīva can be given any type of body. That is not difficult.



Śyāmasundara: So they say that each person is different from every other person because the arrangement of the genes in his cell is uniquely his, but the same genes will be passed on...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) That depends on the father and the mother.



Śyāmasundara: The same genes will be passed on to their children, so they will have characteristics like their parents in that way.



*Prabhupāda: That is the body*-this body.



*Śyāmasundara: So they are considering that by altering these genes in certain ways, they can make very highly intelligent persons come out or very low*-bred persons come out.



Prabhupāda: But that is already there. What is their credit?



Atreya Ṛṣi: They want to control more.



Prabhupāda: What is the control? It is already there. It is not under your control.



Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that they can make xerox copies of whatever type of personality they like.



Prabhupāda: That's right; xerox copy means the original sample is already there. So what is the credit there?



Devotee: There may be only one very, very intelligent person, but by their method they may think that they may create a whole society.



*Śyāmasundara: I'll read you some of their predictions. They're very frightening. They say by 1980-that's eight years from now*-that they will be able to create synthetic life in the form of artificial viruses which will be used to cure some forms of genetic diseases. Artificial life. In eight years they say they will have artificial life.



Prabhupāda: And that artificial life?



Śyāmasundara: Small viruses or living organisms, very small. But by the year 2000 they say they will be able to keep...



Prabhupāda: 2000!



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. That's twenty*-eight years from now. They say that they will be able to deep-freeze embryos, that means unborn babies, as insurance against nuclear holocaust and for interplanetary colonization. In other words, they can send these unborn babies in frozen form to other planets and have an arrangement for them to be born and grow in the spaceship and then go out.



Prabhupāda: Don't waste your time with these rascals.



*Śyāmasundara: They'll have an artificial and mechanical baby factory, effective control of most human defects. Single*-celled life will be created from chemicals off the shelf. They can make intelligent animals to do menial work. And then in seventy-eight years they say that they will be able to regenerate...



Prabhupāda: Just like there was Pan American, they were selling tickets for going to Candraloka. Reservation.



*Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, is it possible that man could ever make even a one*-celled living being?



Prabhupāda: Even if he makes, what is credit there? Cells are already there. What is the question of making?



Śyāmasundara: All they're doing is creating the conditions for the jīva to enter, actually. Isn't it?



Prabhupāda: Whatever their proposal, these things are already there. So even they can create something, xerox copy, what is the credit?



Śyāmasundara: But then they'll have control over it. That's their...



Prabhupāda: No, no control, because you are beginning from something on which you have no control. So where is your control?



Śyāmasundara: "From now on I am the master. I can create more Einsteins. I can create many Einsteins."



Prabhupāda: But first of all keep Einstein living. Why he is dying?



Śyāmasundara: That's on their program too.



*Prabhupāda: That's on their program*-that is is another foolish thing.



Śyāmasundara: Postponement of death by at least fifty years...



Prabhupāda: So what is the profit? After fifty years he has to die. Stop, stop death, then that is credit.



Śyāmasundara: They say they will be able to take out someone like Einstein's brain when his body dies and keep it alive, a disembodied brain, and use it like a computer.



Prabhupāda: All right. Whatever. (sounding disgusted) No. All rascals, fools. As if in the brain there is the thing. What is this brain? It is a material substance, what is there, lump of matter.



Śyāmasundara: Just like they can take a heart out of a living being and they put it in a machine and keep it alive and then they transplant it to some other person.



*Prabhupāda: The same intelligence, yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13], they're trying to find out life in this lump of matter. That is their defect.



Śyāmasundara: They'll spend so many billions of dollars, and years of work.



Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like computer machine. They do not find that the machine is made by a brain which is different from this material. But he's trying to find out a brain from this. This is their childish... The brain is different from machine. The machine is lump of iron. And the one who is working with the machine is a different from the machine. That they do not know. That they do not know. That is their defect. Now what is this computer machine will do unless there is a worker in the computer room, highly salaried man?



Śyāmasundara: Unless it's plugged into the wall it doesn't work.



Prabhupāda: Lump of matter, iron, that's all. But that they do not know. They are so foolish and rascal. Then they're trying to find out... This is same childishness, that "I'm trying to find out the singer within the box, within the box." It is like that.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the proposals that they made here (indistinct) very speculative type. It's just a projection that can be made by their own speculation.



Prabhupāda: That's all. It is simply mental speculation.



Śyāmasundara: They haven't even come near to these things yet.



Prabhupāda: They'll never come.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mostly scientists are digging up, trying to find out something when they get some very basic preliminary ideas, they speculate so much (indistinct) this, so on. In such and such time I'll be able to make such and such things. Every scientist does like that. Ultimately it is all, it is always...



Prabhupāda: Failure.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Something on the way, something comes up.



Prabhupāda: Then there, it has changed. It has changed. The circumstances have changed.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) very, very delicate, the substances that they are handling, the cells of the the microorganisms. They are also subjected to different changes, without knowing anything. So, but they're taking that things are thus perfect, (indistinct) based on their perfect thinking, what they have learned is infallible. (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Therefore our śāstra says these classes of men, no better than cows and asses. Sa eva go*-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cows and asses. We take them like go-kharaḥ, cows and asses. They may speculate, but we take them, "You are no better than asses and cows."



Śyāmasundara: They work very hard for a little morsel of grass.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's right. Some fools will give them credit, and that credit is given by such class of men: dogs, hogs, camels and asses. No good men. Kṛṣṇa conscious men will never give them anything. But men like dogs, hogs, asses and camels will give them. Samstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ, this they are. Śva*-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Saṁstutaḥ means eulogized. This class of men will be eulogized by whom? By dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. No Vyāsadeva will give them credit; no Nārada will give them credit; neither Kṛṣṇa will give them credit, nor followers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give them credit. Because they have a criterion to know what kind of man he is. They have got śāstra, and from the śāstra it is understood one who is accepting this body as the self, he is no better than cow and ass. That is our culture. He has not still found out that the worker of the machine is different. This body is just like machine. May be composed of highly mechanical arrangement, electronic parts and this and that, so many things, but after all, it is a machine! And this machine must be worked by somebody. He must be living. He is not machine.



Śyāmasundara: They can't create a machine that will act like a human?



Prabhupāda: No, no. Even if it can act, still it has to be worked. Unless I push the buttons, you cannot work. That they are missing. Just like you say that computer machine is the same, or so many things, but as soon as you say that "I want this," immediately. But you have to push the button. This machine is working when I push this plug into the electricity.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like a computer cannot correct a mistake. They'll just give a message that it's wrong. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: No. They have correction. They have correction.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Even they... But ultimately the mechanic (is) able to work on the computer machine.



Śyāmasundara: But what about this artificially changing bodies before they are born, before they are growing?



Prabhupāda: That is also same thing. Just like I change your shirt, what is that?



Śyāmasundara: But I mean, isn't that a demonic act?



Prabhupāda: That we shall consider later. Demonic it must be, but this change, this change can be possible.



Śyāmasundara: If by our karma we desire a certain type of body but they create all the bodies to be the same, how is that? But men are tampering with the bodies.



Prabhupāda: Let them create first, then say. Where is the man they are creating? It is simply theory.



Līlāvatī: That living entity would still have the same desire, that previous desire for that previous body, won't he? If some scientist can change the genes so that the jīva can have a different kind of body, he still would have the previous desires?



Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not possible. If his body... The word is daiva netreṇa: by superior arrangement. So how these rascals can be superior? They are not.



Atreya Ṛṣi: And also, Prabhupāda, in case, for example some scientist makes a change, like if the scientist comes and cuts off my hand, that's also my karma. In that way he's not making a change. Everything that is happening is God's plan.



Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no, no. Everything, even if it is not in my karma, I can cut, I become responsible for cutting.



Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, if somebody comes and cuts my hand...



Prabhupāda: Yes. He can do that. He creates his own karma.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Jaya. But how about my karma?



Prabhupāda: My karma is that such thing may happen. Your karma is that he'll also cut his hand, next life.



Atreya Ṛṣi: The fact that my hand got cut this life, wasn't this due to something I did before? (end)





BERGSON.SYA



Henri Bergson



Śyāmasundara: So Henri Bergson, his philosophy is called vitalism. He believes that there is a life force which is separate from the laws of physics and chemistry. Darwin thought that the life force was made up of physics and chemistry, but he said no, the life force is separate from Darwin's mechanical laws, and that science will never be able to adequately explain what is life, the source of life.



*Prabhupāda: That's nice. It is soul. He's learning of soul. But he is unable to capture the..., positively. But the soul is not controlled by the physical laws. That is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. What does He say?



nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi

nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ



It is in the Second Chapter.



Devotee:



nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi

nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ

na cainaṁ kledayanty āpo

na śoṣayati mārutaḥ

[Bg. 2.23]



Prabhupāda: What is the translation?



Pradyumna: "The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind."



Prabhupāda: What is the purport?



Śyāmasundara: "All kinds of weapons, swords, flames, rains, tornadoes, etc., are unable to kill the spirit soul. It appears that there were many kinds of weapons made of earth, water, air, ether, etc., in addition to the modern weapons of fire. Even the nuclear weapons of the modern age are classified as fire weapons, but formerly there were other weapons made of all different types of material elements. Firearms were counteracted by water weapons, which are now unknown to modern science. Nor do modern scientists have knowledge of tornado weapons. Nonetheless, the soul can never be cut into pieces nor annihilated by any number of weapons, regardless of scientific devices. Nor was it ever possible to cut the individual souls from the original Soul. The Māyāvādī, however, cannot describe how the individual soul evolved from ignorance and consequently became covered by illusory energy. Because they are atomic individual souls (sanātana) eternally, they are prone to be covered by the illusory energy, and thus they become separated from the association of the Supreme Lord..."



Prabhupāda: The vital source of the soul can be temporarily covered by physical elements, but it is not belonging to the group of physical elements. That is our system.



Śyāmasundara: And he says that reason is only to explain the life process because reason is not...



Prabhupāda: Reason explain... He cannot explain because he does not know. The soul is a living force, and it has got little independence. So the supreme living force is God, and he is part and parcel of God, exactly like the spark of the whole fire. So this song, he has finished, bhuliya tomāre saṁsāre. So as soon as the soul receives his independence from (indistinct) become God Himself or wants to become enjoyer of the material nature, he becomes powerless, and he is subjected to the influence (indistinct) by the physical elements, and because he forgets his real identity, he thinks that he is body. Just like Darwin's theory. He is not this body. It is simply, circumstantially, a covering, a dress, and the living soul is different from the physical body.



Śyāmasundara: He says that since the reality is a living force, it is always becoming something else; therefore logical explanations or scientific explanations are ineffective because they deal with static problems.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The so*-called scientists, they do not know the real, basic principle; therefore they are misled. Actually the soul, the living force, because they are getting independence and has to, wants to enjoy the material world, which he cannot do, but falsely, after life (indistinct), he is running after (indistinct) material nature, and he is becoming more and more (indistinct). That is his (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: When science tries to investigate something, they assume that what they are investigating is static, that it is a constant, that it is not changing, that it's static, mechanical. But the life force, he says, is dynamic; it's always changing, unpredictable.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is living force, it must be dynamic. It is not a dead stone. Because it is living force, it must be dynamic. We are all living force, sitting here, we may sit down or we may go away. That nobody can check. Similarly, we are dynamic forces, and God does not interfere with our dynamic force. He allows us, "Do whatever you like." Because if He interferes with our independence, then we are no longer living entities; we become dead stones. So God does not interfere. He gives us full freedom. But at the same time He comes down and instructs us, "But why you are engaged in this foolish activity? Please come to Me, back to home, back to Godhead, (indistinct)."



Śyāmasundara: So if he says that the physical world...



Līlāvatī: Does that mean that the spiritual body changes, Prabhupāda?



Prabhupāda: Not spiritual body, material body. Spiritual body cannot be changed.



Śyāmasundara: No. We're not talking about bodies, we're talking about the life force.



Prabhupāda: Life force means that the spirit soul has got spiritual body. That I have explained several times. Just like you have got this body. When you cut your coat, it is according to the body. Because we have hands, legs, therefore it is to be understood that this dress is made according to that real body. So originally the spirit soul has got body, so these physical elements are just like a covering, exactly to the size of the hands, legs, everything.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this life form is unpredictable, that it's always creating new things, new manifestations.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is creating new things in the material phenomena. Otherwise how he is spiritually situated, there is no such changes. The only one business is to serve Kṛṣṇa, although when we satisfy Kṛṣṇa there are many varieties. That is spiritual varieties. At the present moment, because He is lover of varieties, we are creating this material (indistinct), varieties of body, and this is subjected to threefold miseries and difficulties*-birth, death, old age, disease. So, so long we are materially entrapped, our so-called (indistinct) force is creating troubles. We are becoming more and more entangled.



Śyāmasundara: But can we ever predict the movement of the life force, the dynamic force...?



Prabhupāda: Yes. This (indistinct), called varieties of (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: But can we predict, can we tell in advance what there will be, what is the future?



Prabhupāda: The future is to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the ultimate future. But because he's not intelligent, he has to be kicked on his face very strongly by the (indistinct). That is the foolish man. And if one is intelligent, he can tell immediately, "Oh, my duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa." That's all. "Why I am trying to serve my senses?" But to come to this platform, this understanding that "I am eternal servant of God. My business is to serve Kṛṣṇa," it requires (indistinct); therefore the māyā is there. Just like police force. The police force is there after the criminal, just to teach him that "You cannot (indistinct) the laws of the state. When you are under our supervision, and we shall simply kick on your face, that is our business." So māyā is always kicking on the face, and (s)he is creating varieties, that's all. This is called conditional life.



Śyāmasundara: So that much is predictable, that for...



Prabhupāda: You can see it is not predictable, it is actually happening. Everyone is trying to be happy, but he is being frustrated. Everyone can see. They are manufacturing different ways of material happiness but becoming frustrated. This is māyā's kicking. There is no question of prediction. Any man who has got a little intelligence, he can see.



Śyāmasundara: So someone can understand, someone can know what the life force is going to do in the future, how it will manifest itself in the future?



Prabhupāda: The future, because he is eternally servant of God, so now he has forgotten. He wants to become master, and the material nature is kicking him, life after life. So one day he'll come to his senses and become again, renovate himself to become servant of God.



Śyāmasundara: So we can predict that everyone will...



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Everyone will be. Somebody sooner, somebody later.



Śyāmasundara: So that the purpose of the life force then is to eventually go back...



Prabhupāda: Just like when a man becomes a prisoner, he will be freed, he'll be a free man at the end of his term, and within this term he is simply kicked by the police, so that he may not come back again to prison house.



Śyāmasundara: But we can't predict that the process of punishment will have permanent effect, can we? Can we predict that? Many prisoners leave the prison, but some come back.



Prabhupāda: No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing as permanent. You can misuse your independence at any time.



Śyāmasundara: And come back.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."



Śyāmasundara: His conception of the soul, which he calls elan vital in French language, means the vital impulse.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Vital..., this is living force, vital force. (indistinct), it is never addressed. God has (indistinct) for the mind, for the intelligence, for the body, God has (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Is it (indistinct) in the same quantity in every body, in every living body?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Same quantity. The same measurement: one ten*-thousandth part of the tip of the hair.



Śyāmasundara: I mean the energy, the amount of energy.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That much, that spiritual energy is everywhere, in the ant or in the elephant.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, you mentioned the size of the soul, and this size seems to connote a physical size. Now, my question is: in the spiritual world, size, it seems that it is a material concept, it is a relative thing, distance...



Prabhupāda: Material size and spiritual size is not the same. Spiritual size is permanent; material size is changing.



*Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, how could you measure the spiritual phenomenon with something like one*-thousandth of the tip of the hair? Hair is material.



Prabhupāda: No. Because you have no spiritual vision, therefore you have to be understood by material example.



Atreya Ṛṣi: That's an example.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Atreya Ṛṣi: And also Śyāmasundara Prabhu was asking about predicting about spiritual life. What is the qualification of the person who can make such predictions?



Prabhupāda: He must be Kṛṣṇa's representative, one who knows Kṛṣṇa. That's all.



Atreya Ṛṣi: No one else.



Prabhupāda: No. If he does not know Kṛṣṇa, how he can explain?



Devotee: That independence, if he exercises that independence from now on, forever, Kṛṣṇa knows exactly how that independence is going to be used forever?



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa?



Devotee: Well, the living entity has independence: now he may be liberated, then he may be conditioned, then he may be liberated, then he may be conditioned.



Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa has given you liberation. Now you misuse your liberation, you become entrapped.



Śyāmasundara: But it is that predictable?



Devotee: Is that known beforehand?



Śyāmasundara: Does Kṛṣṇa know beforehand everything, before...?



Prabhupāda: No. How Kṛṣṇa can know? You can change your mind. So Kṛṣṇa says "Surrender unto Me." If you don't surrender, then what Kṛṣṇa can do? That much independence is there.



Śyāmasundara: So even God cannot predict?



Prabhupāda: What is the use of prediction? Prediction is so much, that he will be kicked, kicked, kicked, and some day he will come.



Devotee: But the independence...



Prabhupāda: Independence is there. Independence is always there. When he is being kicked, there is also independence.



Devotee: Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, eventually permanently he will come back.



Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of permanent. Because he has got independence, he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why one man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently he... He can come back again.



Śyāmasundara: There's no guarantee.



Atreya Ṛṣi: This concept of prediction, Prabhupāda. You just said it's the duty of the material (indistinct) because he's (indistinct) material. Because he's not sure and...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) by experience (indistinct). Just like you can predict that four months after, there will be winter season. This prediction is like that. You have got experience that last year there was winter season, and again four months after there will be winter season. We call this prediction of experience, that's all.



Atreya Ṛṣi: In the spiritual world everything is permanent.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Atreya Ṛṣi: There is no need for making predictions all the time.



Prabhupāda: No. Why there is? Prediction means when there is something wanting. There is no want at all.



Devotee: Once he's liberated, can he (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: No. That is the general law. But if he likes, he can come back. Because otherwise, what is the meaning of independence? Just like one should become fit in the prison house, naturally he should not go again. But (indistinct) running again kicking, that's all.



Līlāvatī: So those eternally liberated souls in the spiritual sky will never come here because they choose not to. It's not that... (indistinct) they never choose to come here.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. They never choose. They are very experienced. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: Bergson says that this quality of the soul can only be perceived by man's intuition, not by his senses, but by his intuition.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nice. Soul cannot be experienced by senses, but we can understand when there is a dead man, we can perceive that there was soul, which is now absent; therefore the body is dead. This is called perception.



Śyāmasundara: The dictionary defines intuition as "immediate apprehension by the mind without any reasoning."



Prabhupāda: That is experience. That is experience. Intuition means mature experience. Just like when as soon as there is mosquito, my hand immediately sees. You can say it is intuition, but it is experience, that when there is mosquito my hand must go there and try to kill him. But the experience is so mature that without consideration the hand goes.



Śyāmasundara: Like instinct?



Prabhupāda: That is instinct, or intuition, or whatever you call it.



*Devotee: Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it explains that a yogi in this life means that in his last life (sic), but in this life it may look like he has intuition towards yoga, but actually...



Prabhupāda: Because he has got experience.



Śyāmasundara: Just like in mathematics they use the concept of intuition a lot, that...



Prabhupāda: A big mathametician, suppose there is a big addition, sum, and one experienced mathematician, he can simply... Sometimes there is some difference. You know that? Generally we have some (indistinct). Is it not? But there are many experienced (indistinct) immediately (indistinct). That is experience.



Devotee: The concept of intuition...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: This is not intuition, this is experience.



Devotee: Tuition(?) means experience.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: Or they use another word, "insight." There is one (indistinct) to apprehend something immediately, see into it without any reasoning. They think of it in another sense.



Prabhupāda: That is also true. Just like a child does not know that by touching the fire, his hand will be burnt. His father says, "No, no, no. Don't touch this." He has got experience; the child hasn't got experience. That's all.



Devotee: Suppose if there are two people, and if you try to teach them mathematics, one person learns very quickly and one person doesn't learn it.



*Prabhupāda: That varieties are always there. Impersonalists, they do not want to see the variety, but we know in everything there is variety. One man is learning (indistinct) and another man is learning very quickly*-these are the varieties. But the process is the same.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever it may be, but there must be some cause. (indistinct) the variety, these varieties are existing everywhere.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the life impulse moves through the universe, creates ever newer forms or varieties, just like an artist creates different paintings. But he says that that painting the artist creates becomes better than the previous one.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can say, evolution. That is evolution. Similarly, this living force is also coming through 8,400,000 species of life, so the next one is better than the last one. In this way they come to the human form, and from this human form they can become demigods or they can become as good as God. Just like Brahma, Brahmā is also a living entity. He is not in the Viṣṇu category, but still, Brahma's power, he can create this universe. God can create many universes, but he can create at least one universe. So it is not less powerful.



Śyāmasundara: He says that evolution through the past history has moved in three stages so far. He says that the first stage of evolution was instinct. The second stage of evolution was intelligence. And now man has moved into the realm of intuition, which is higher than both.



Prabhupāda: Then he agrees that from the lowest stage he has come to the higher?



Śyāmasundara: But you said instinct and intuition were the same thing.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: His description is that instinct is lower because it's almost blind.



Prabhupāda: Belonging to the same category, that's all. One is little superior than the other.



Atreya Ṛṣi: What is realization, Prabhupāda? Realization belongs to the same category?



Prabhupāda: No. Realization means when you come to the truth.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Bergson is using the word "insight" in the same way as "realization."



Prabhupāda: No. Insight is not realization. Insight may be the beginning of realization.



Śyāmasundara: Understanding something. He says that insight or understanding something by intuition is higher than understanding something by the intelligence.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (pause)



*Devotee: (indistinct) the understanding, understand Bhagavad*-gītā by our intelligence, (indistinct).



Devotee: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: With the creative process advancement in ever higher levels up into the level of immortality.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You are getting different types of body, and when you are properly or perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, then no more this material body; you get spiritual body.



Devotee: Does that mean that I am, if I don't make it to immortality, I (indistinct)?



Śyāmasundara: No. The life force is eternal but it advances to higher and higher levels.



Devotee: It's eternal, but I don't realize its eternality (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: No. The forms. The life force itself is eternal but the forms will change up to the stage of immortality.



Prabhupāda: Material forms have changed. The living force has not. The same example: the living force is there, the forms babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, the form is changed, but the person whose bodies have been changed, he is permanent, he is spiritual, he is not changed. But when he identifies with the body, he thinks that "I am changed." The example is, just like in the rainy season, at night there is cloud, and the cloud is moving, but if you see, you see the moon is moving, moon is moving. But actually the moon is not moving, the cloud is moving. You have any experience?



Śyāmasundara: Yes, we have.



Prabhupāda: You find the moon is moving like anything. Spirit soul (indistinct) is not moving.



Śyāmasundara: Is this progress toward human immortality, is that a creative process?



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by creative process? This is not creative.



Devotee: Well, Bergson's idea of creative means we are creating our immortality.



Prabhupāda: No. You are immortal always, by constitution, but you are changing your bodies exactly like the moon is fixed but the bodies are changing, clouds, changing, and it appears that the moon is also going on, but moon is not going on. Similarly, soul is permanent.



Śyāmasundara: Is that process we take, from body to body to body, is that a creative process?



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. You create your own body, next body, as you desire. If you create your mentality like a dog, you get a body of a dog; if you create your mentality like a hog, you get a body of hog; if you create your mentality like a tree, then you become a tree; and if you create your mentality as servant of God, you go back to home, to Kṛṣṇa.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Has Bergson recognized that we may fall also, or does he think that we are constantly moving up?



Śyāmasundara: He says it's unpredictable, that the life force...



Prabhupāda: He does not know. At the present moment I am fallen, so even if I go to my original position, there is chance of again falling down. Otherwise, how I became fallen? Just like a child once falls and again stands up, he has got chance of again falling down. You cannot say, "Now he has stood up, he'll not fall again." That is not possible.



Devotee: The different kinds of bodies, they're just different phases of the illusion, because the real, spiritual body is always the same, it's not changing.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is called sanātana, eternal.



Atreya Ṛṣi: But Prabhupāda, the process of realization, the process of reaching up to perfection, is the only creative process.



Prabhupāda: [break] You are creating disturbance, I say, "Get out." (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: He says that the world is a machine for the making of gods. The world...



Prabhupāda: Another nonsense. Another nonsense. (indistinct) Uncover it. (Sanskrit). A rascal is beautiful so long as he does not speak. If he remains silent, then he looks very beautiful. But as soon as he speaks nonsense, then it is (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: He means it, in a sense that it's a training ground, the world is a training ground... [break] ... to make ourselves... [break]



*Prabhupāda: ...will not die. But you have forgotten that you are eternal. Ātma*-māyām ṛte rājan parasya..., what is that?



Devotee: Parasyānubhavātmanaḥ.



*Prabhupāda: Explain that verse. Ātma*-māyām ṛte rājan parasyānubhavātmanaḥ, na ghaṭeta...



*Devotee: Na ghaṭetārtha*-sambandhaḥ...



*Prabhupāda: ...artha*-sambandhaḥ svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā. Actually there is no bewilderment (indistinct) spirit. I am eternal spirit soul, eternal servant. Just like the (indistinct) but it is somehow or other (indistinct) for a time it is covered by the clouds it appears moving. [break] Actually it is not moving. (indistinct) we see that the moon is moving. So we are spirit soul eternally. Just like I am lying down on my bed, bit I am dreaming I have gone to Pacific Ocean and being drowned and so many things, you have come to save me, and so many troublesome things. But actually there is no Pacific Ocean, nothing of the sort. It is simply my dream. So this temporary covering of the body is just like a dream. As soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everything is finished.



Devotee: In the dream, they are also suffering. So in the same way it is actually happening in a subtle form in your dreams. It is actually happening.



Prabhupāda: Yes, and it has no actual value, but when it is happening and I am under dream, I am thinking it is all actual. Actually it has no value. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means which has no real existence, but it appears.



Śyāmasundara: Last night you said that what is the meaning of the word "nothing." That māyā means "nothing"?



Prabhupāda: You can say like that. Nothing is appearing like something. But we don't say nothing. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say nothing. We say temporary, just like cloud, you cannot say it is nothing.



Devotee: "Not this."



Prabhupāda: Like cloud. Cloud has appeared and it will go; therefore you can say it is nothing. But we say it is not nothing, but it is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: "That which is not." You said that māyā is "that which is not."



Prabhupāda: No. That which is not, but as you are seeing it is not that.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, as soon as you see it, it changes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like you are thinking that "I am this body." Most people, all people, they think "I am this body." That is not.



Devotee: The body is there, it's just not...



Prabhupāda: Temporary. Temporary, for a few years, for a few hours, for few minutes, that's all. Therefore we cannot say "nothing." The exact word is "temporary." What is that? You wanted to speak something?



Devotee: I was just curious about dreams. Sometimes (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: These are false.



Devotee: Did you say once that sometimes Kṛṣṇa will let you work off some of your karma in a dream (indistinct)?



Prabhupāda: So whatever it may be, that is all temporary.



Devotee: Just like Bergson, his idea of the (indistinct) of immortality, does that mean (indistinct), scientific, technological revolution.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, I think so. His idea is that evolution, as it passes through different bodies, the life force, and that eventually on this planet, man will become immortal.



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: That life forms are improving more and more and and more, until some day they'll improve to be perfect.



Prabhupāda: After (indistinct), they are living sixty years, and they think (indistinct) sixty years (indistinct). Here in this material, either sixty years or hundred sixty years or millions of sixty years or trillions of sixty years (indistinct). One who is living for sixty years, for him millions of years means immortal.



Śyāmasundara: So we took up here on the tape. We already have the rest of this on tape. So should we finish for today?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, I have another question about... There are certain scientists, who through speculative knowledge, they have acquired some little bit of knowledge through speculation. My question is, Prabhupāda, that yes, maybe through speculation we can get knowledge, some knowledge, but isn't it, as Kṛṣṇa says that He is the source of all knowledge and there is no way to get to any knowledge except through His representative, that that, for example, if Bergson comes to the knowledge, even though he did not accept a spiritual master or a prophet, he acquired it because that knowledge was made available to him through some other way. In other words...



Prabhupāda: How he takes the knowledge, if it comes..., does not come to the final conclusion? That kind of knowledge anyone can get. It does not need a philosophy. To some extent.



Atreya Ṛṣi: But knowledge of God, knowledge of soul...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Real knowledge. Can one, purely speculatively, can one...



Prabhupāda: No. Otherwise the *Vedas* would not have asked you, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12], that in order to learn that transcendental science one must approach a guru.



Atreya Ṛṣi: So when we see a speculator having some knowledge, some real knowledge...



Prabhupāda: Not real knowledge.



Atreya Ṛṣi: But some. Maybe some speculator will say, "Yes. I am convinced there is God." He heard that from either, for example, he heard it in his own culture or somewhere indirectly he heard it from God. He didn't make that up. Is that the conclusion?



Śyāmasundara: You mean by intuition can we understand.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. One can understand. It is very easy. That I explained in the meeting, that we see, that any way you take, I have got my father, my father has got father, his father, his father, his father*-so there must be some original father. That is supreme father. Another way: I don't find myself free. I am in American state, so I have to submit report to the immigration department. Or you, American citizens, you have got some obligation to the state: the draft man is there, calling you; *if you don't go then you have to go to jail. So nobody is control*-free; *everyone is being controlled. Again, I see that the man who is controlling me, he is also controlled, and that man is also controlled, that man is... So here you see relative*-I am controller and controlled. So when I approach the person who is simply controller, not controlled, that is God. How can you deny this definition of God? Simply (indistinct). Here by our experience we see, everyone is rejecting the controller and controlled. But if you can find out the Supreme Person, who is controller but not controlled, then He is God. Find out. Now, if i say that it is beyond my capacity, so go to experienced man, Brahma. He has got duration life a million times greater than you, and he got knowledge. He said,



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*Sarva*-kāraṇa. Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcit asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior." (indistinct) Brahmā said, "He's God." Now Śrīdhara said, "He's God." My Guru Mahārāja said, "He's God," and Caitanya says, "He's God." Then where shall I go? (indistinct) God. (indistinct) rascal, God? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. I shall accept the path of the great (indistinct).



Devotee: (indistinct) this thirteen year old god (indistinct). Then you ask them, "Who says he is God?" They really don't know what to say.



Śyāmasundara: We asked him in Bombay, "Are you God? Are you Kṛṣṇa?" And he laughed and said, "I never say I am God, but my disciples feel."



Prabhupāda: He did not want to be (indistinct). So why does he not stop his disciples to speak like that?



Śyāmasundara: He enjoys it. He enjoys being flattered. His followers are a bunch of shaggy hippies, so who respects their judgment? [break] So Bergson wants to search out what is the pattern of evolution, how it will go in the future, and he says that because men have progressed from the (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: Since you know beforehand everything before (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: You can change your mind. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says (indistinct). That is explained in the *Bhāgavatam*... [break] ...progress, why do you talk of these things? What do you think, eh? That is explained in the *Bhāgavatam*: andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās. Andhā. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes, then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, "Please come behind me, I shall get you across." But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others, philosophizing?



Śyāmasundara: It seems like these two philosophers have two different viewpoints. The first one, Huxley thinks that man can take nature into his own hands and mold his own evolution.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: Whereas this philosopher thinks that we should just..., that the vital force is guiding everyone and is creating its own evolution, that we should just drift in the course of things and the vital force will determine history or will determine our future.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Vital force will determine. That is somewhat...



*Śyāmasundara: Without our doing*-without anything of our own doing.



Prabhupāda: No. Vital force must know how to make progress, how to do it. Then he'll be... If he does not know how to do it, how it will be possible? Can you do anything... Suppose you are learning some mechanical business, can you do it without direction? You have to learn. You must get a teacher. So, without teacher, that is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the seasons. We just place ourselves in the seasons, take us towards something, towards springtime. [break] Yes. So the other type of morality he calls "open morality." This is determined by individuals, in a dynamic way. You blaze new trails guided by...



Prabhupāda: As soon as it is invented by individual men or society, this is all rascaldom. It has no value.



Śyāmasundara: He calls it the higher morality. Just like St. Paul or some great saint receives inspiration from God, and he blazes a new trail to morality in the society.



Prabhupāda: That is nice. Because he is God conscious, he can dictate what is real morality.



Śyāmasundara: He is speaking in this case of St. Paul.



*Prabhupāda: So St. Paul, he is a sādhu. So our process is that sādhu, guru, śāstra. We have to accept everything through saintly persons, confirmed by the scripture, and described or explained by guru. Then it is perfect. The scriptures are already there, and we have to see how the scriptures are being followed by saintly persons. And if there is any difficulties, they should be explained by the spiritual master. Then it is confirmed: sādhu-śāstra*-guru vākya (cittete koriyā aikya). Scriptures you cannot understand directly. Then you have to see how the scriptural injunctions are being followed by saintly persons. Even if you cannot understand, then the spiritual master will explain to you.



Śyāmasundara: And he sees also in the same way two types of religion. He sees the static religion and calls this... Static religion: myths devised by human intelligence as a means of defense against the depressing experiences of life. He says that being fearful of the future, man attempts to combat his fate by constructing religious myths. [break] ...mythology...



Prabhupāda: Well, that I have already answered. Anything manufactured by man, that is not religion. That is not religion. That I have already answered. Religion is not manufactured, but it is given by God. That is our point, that God is giving religion, "Here is religion: surrender unto Me." So any religious system may be different in method, but ultimately if it comes to this point, (surrendering to God), then it is religion. Otherwise it is not religion; reject it.



Śyāmasundara: He says that prompted by this vital impulse, the human will identifies with the divine will in a mystical union...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ... and that this is real religion.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people that you agree with the divine will. The divine will is that you surrender. So you agree to surrender. That we are teaching. That is real religion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that real religion is a mystic oneness with God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Oneness means that I agree with God. God says that "You surrender," I say, "Yes, I surrender." God says to Arjuna, "You fight," he fights. That is oneness. That we have no disagreement, in any point, with God, that is oneness. Just like in this institution, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When I say anything, there is no disagreement of any of the disciples. It is being done, taking God's representative, Kṛṣṇa's representative, so similarly with God also. But what I am doing? I am simply taking the order from God, and I am disseminating the same knowledge. I have accepted surrender unto Kṛṣṇa as my life. I am teaching others, "You also surrender." This is called disciplic succession. There is no disagreement with God. It is not that I am... [break] Yes. That means one who is God conscious, he is a mystic.



Śyāmasundara: But the modern interpretation of the word mystic is something different. People take mystic to mean someone who is very mysterious and magic.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It has come to that. God consciousness... Just like at the present moment if a guru can show some miracles, just like that Sai Baba, so they accept. That's a mystic.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That's the modern meaning of mystic.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Although it may be rascaldom, false, still if they see like that, miracles... That means less intelligent class of men. They want to see some miracles. That is mysticism.



Śyāmasundara: And he says that God means love. And the creative..., thus the creative... Through creative love the world came into being, and the world is a manifestation of God's love.



Prabhupāda: Yes. God loves. Because, unless He loves, why does He come personally? Why He gives instructions through the scriptures? [break] (end)





Bentham.SYA



Jeremy Bentham



Śyāmasundara: First one.



Prabhupāda: Hedonism.



Śyāmasundara: Yeah.



Prabhupāda: No.



Śyāmasundara: A little bit. The first one's name is Jeremy Bentham, and his philosophy is that virtue is defined in terms of utility, and that utility is defined as that which enhances the happiness of men. So that the goal of society, according to the utilitarians, is the greatest happiness for the greatest number.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is also our aim but that happiness is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat. Ātyantikam. Atyantikam means the greatest happiness. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. That happiness can be perceived by transcendental senses.



Śyāmasundara: So you're talking about a qualitative happiness, the quality of happiness.



Prabhupāda: Yah, qualitative it must be. Ātyantikam. Ātyantikam means the actual, the greatest happiness.



Śyāmasundara: Greatest, highest happiness.



Prabhupāda: Happiness everyone wants. You are feeling happy by eating something but if you get another better thing, you feel more happiness.



Śyāmasundara: Quality of happiness.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Not the quality of happiness. You feel actually greater happiness. Just like you are taking ordinary sugar, but if you take rasagullā, it is also sweet but it is greater happiness.



Śyāmasundara: Quantity or...



Prabhupāda: No. The happiness, greater happiness, yeah, quantity you can say.



Śyāmasundara: Quantity, quantity of happiness is greater.



Prabhupāda: Yes, greater happiness. So that greatest happiness can be perceived by transcenden... Happiness means satisfying the senses. Real... Happiness means satisfying the senses. So sense gratification. But the actual sense gratification, the greatest sense gratification is to be derived by your transcendental senses, not these gross senses. Sometimes these gross senses... Take for example rasagullā. You are eating but after eating four, five or ten you'll feel, "No more." That is not ātyantikam happiness. Happiness means you are enjoying something, you increase more and more and more enjoy, more enjoy, more enjoy, more enjoy. That is happiness. So whether this man knows what is happiness, that is the... He does not know what is happiness. He thinks in terms of sense gratification.



Śyāmasundara: Physical senses.



*Prabhupāda: Physical. But physical senses cannot actually cannot give you the greatest happiness. Just like a man is sensuous. So he can enjoy one woman, two women, but he cannot enjoy unlimitedly. But our standard of happiness means "which is increasingly unlimited." That is happiness. Therefore it is said, ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani. Those who are yogis, they enjoy. So enjoyment... Without enjoyment, nothing is relished. Just like you are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is some enjoyment, transcendental bliss. Otherwise how you can stick to it? So real happiness means "which is increasingly unlimited." That is happiness. Temporary happiness... Vidyāpati sings, tātala saikate vāri*-bindu-sama suta-mita-ramaṇī-samāje, that we are trying to enjoy in this material world, happiness in the society, friendship and love. Suta-mita-ramaṇī-samāje, friends, children, wife, like that. That is in the society. But Vidyāpati says, "Yes, there is happiness undoubtedly, but that happiness is just like a drop of water in the desert. Desert means it is hankering after water. Dry desert, he requires water, but if you go there and put a drop of water, "Now here is water." So our, we are, who are hankering after so great happiness that these rascals' sense gratification happiness is not giving us. It is just like a drop in the desert. Therefore we are changing, changing simply. The same thing, punaḥ punaś carvita-car... The same thing, we do not know what is real happiness so simply changing the posture. Now woman should be mini-skirted. Why they should be fully dressed? (laughter) Now they're also trying. Ultimately they're coming to the position of (indistinct) (laughter). Just see. Here, here in the (indistinct). They are attracting tourists by showing the vagina(?). That's all. This is happiness. They have no other information. "Come on, here is vagina, open. This is their standard of happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45], most abominable thing they have taken as happiness. So what do they know about happiness? These so-called philosophers, they do not know what is happiness. And why they are philosophizing about happiness? Happiness is also our aim, but that happiness is different from this happiness. Just like a hog is enjoying happiness eating stool. No man will be happy by eating stool neither he will agree to enjoy such happiness. It is the standard of happiness according to the body.



Śyāmasundara: Bentham says it is better to be a satisfied hog than an unsatisfied man.



Prabhupāda: Well, hog is not satisfied. That is another rascaldom. (laughter) If hog would have been satisfied then he would have remained in one place, but he's searching after happiness whole day and night. Whole day and night. Nobody can be satisfied possessing a material body. That is not possible. (indistinct) Suppose you have made some arrangement according to your (indistinct), "Now I shall enjoy." But you will not be allowed to enjoy. Death will take away. You are thinking that "Now I will be happy." All right, to your standard it is happiness, but death will come, "No, please get out." Sukhena lagiya (Bengali). You construct a very nice house and next day it was set fire and finished. So you have made arrangement for fire brigade always running on the street. That is means you want to enjoy happiness without any disturbance. So happiness means, which is eternally possible. That is happiness. And we are trying to give people that happiness which will never be exhausted. That is our objective of happiness.



Śyāmasundara: He sees this happiness in a communal aspect. It must be for the greatest number. So he advocates a democracy where everyone is given unlimited individual freedom.



*Prabhupāda: That is also another nonsense. In democracy nobody is happy. The so*-called democracy does not give anyone any happiness. Otherwise in America, the greatest democratic country, why there are so many unhappy people? That also another nonsense. It is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the interest of the community would be the sum of the interests of the individuals in the community.



Prabhupāda: That is a compromise. That is not happiness, that "You don't harm me, I don't harm you, and we remain happy." That does not mean you are happy, I am happy. These are simply speculate.



Śyāmasundara: He says we can determine what is happiness for the whole by examining what is happy for the individual.



*Prabhupāda: Happiness, happiness is... What is happiness, that is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Happiness means absence of distress. That is happiness. So Bhagavad-gītā recommends that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You may think that you are very happy but this is not happiness. You have to see to your distressed condition because you have to take birth, you have to die, you have to suffer diseases and you have to suffer, janma-mṛtyu-jarā, old age. So where is your happiness. If the distresses are present, then where is your happiness? This is another ignorance. This is a... Nobody wants to die but death is there. Then where is your happiness? Nobody wants to become old but the old age is there. You must become old. Then where is your happiness? Nobody wants diseases but disease is there. You cannot avoid it. Then where is your happiness? This is less intelligence. That actually you are not in happiness but by your so-called philosophizing theories, you are trying to be happy, means another illusion and we take it as happiness. Actually it is not happiness. Where is your happiness?



Śyāmasundara: He has seven measurements for happiness. He calls it the hedonistic calculus, how to evaluate happiness according to seven principles. One is intensity, how intense is the pleasure in question? Two, duration, how long can a certain pleasure be expected to last? Three, certainty, how much can we depend upon a certain experience to produce the expected pleasure? Four, remoteness, how immediate or remote is the anticipated pleasure? Five, fecundity, how many future pleasures will result and will each pleasure terminate in pain? Six, purity, how free is the pleasure from painful elements? Seven, extent, how many other persons can share the pleasure?



Prabhupāda: This is a very nice definition. We accept it, this standard, but if you put material happiness and test by this standard, there is no happiness. There is no happiness. Therefore the conclusion should be, if we test with this acid test of happiness, it is impossible to get happiness in the material world. There is no question of happiness. These testing points are nice but as soon as we put any kind of happiness to this test, you will find it is failed. Take any standard (of) happiness, it will, neither of this test will be there. So the conclusion should be there is no happiness in the material world. These tests are applicable in the spiritual world.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that everything should be utilized to extract the most pleasure from life.



Prabhupāda: That is our theory, to make the best use of a bad bargain. We are already cheated, "Now all right, let me utilize it." That's all. You don't admit that "I have been cheated, now I am utilizing it."



Śyāmasundara: He says that utility is that property in any object whereby it tends to produce benefit, advantage, pleasure, good or happiness.



*Prabhupāda: That is nice, this definition also, but if we put to test all our so*-called happiness, it will not be possible to come out successful.



*Śyāmasundara: He realizes that this view could give rise to egoistic over*-indulgence, that someone could think, "Well, if pleasure is my only goal, let me do anything, never mind others."



Prabhupāda: But then how long it will stay? To come to the test, that it will not stay. Suppose one has decided that I have learned how to cheat others so you can cheat for some time to all men or all men or some men for some time but you cannot... You'll be caught, you'll be captured as a cheater. Then you will be punished. So the duration is not permanent. The test is duration.



Śyāmasundara: One of the tests is duration.



Prabhupāda: Duration, that duration will not allow to enjoy that kind of cheating happiness.



Śyāmasundara: He rejects duty or sense of duty or conscience to be the guide for moral conduct, good and bad conduct, and he accepts only the amount of pleasure or pain as the criterion of right conduct.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Whether I'm doing right or wrong will be measured by how much pain or pleasure I am getting from it.



Prabhupāda: Yes, this definition we can also accept because we are try to Kṛṣṇa conscious, to derive the permanent happiness, first quality happiness.



Śyāmasundara: So if I'm feeling happy that means I am proceeding...



Prabhupāda: You must feel, if it is happiness, you must feel happy. Just like eating is happiness. So if you actually eat, you must feel happiness. It is not that (indistinct). Eating, when you are hungry, eating is happiness. But if you are not feeling happiness then what is the use of eating? By eating if you are feeling happiness, then you are eating. Strength, you'll feel strength, "Yes, I was fatigued. Now eating I am getting strength." Satisfaction. These three things are to be there when you are eating. If there is no satisfaction, no strength, then what is the meaning of eating. There is no...



*Śyāmasundara: Someone might raise the point, "Well, the man is hungry and he has no food, therefore in order to feel pleasure he must steal it and cause displeasure to someone else." But this Bentham says that there are four natural curves or preventions, preventative forces to keep people from egoistic over*-indulgence. One is the physical consequences of over-indulgence. If I eat too much, I get sick. One is political, that I will be imprisoned if I transgress. I will be punished. One is moral, or popular opinion, the public will think badly of me if I over-indulge. And the fourth one is religious, that God will punish me if I am an evil-doer. These four preventions he says, keep us from over-indulging in pleasure.



Prabhupāda: But if there is some happiness, why there is no prevention. That is real happiness. There is no prevention, simply go on increasing.



Śyāmasundara: Indulging.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Kṛṣṇa's happiness, there was no prevention. So that is real happiness. Prevention means material, limited. Just like drinking liquor. There is prevention also. There are no*-alcoholic beer. You have seen the signboard? That is prevention.



*Śyāmasundara: To be over twenty*-one years old.



Prabhupāda: No some signboard, you cannot drink even, sitting on their bench. I have seen in New York so many places. So alcohol is very nice happiness, but there is prevention. In your country, the prevention is not so strong. In our country it is very... If one is caught in drunken state, immediately he is taken to the police. Immediately. He is punished. You cannot come on the road in a drunken state. No. You are found in drunken state on the road, you are liable to be arrested. You do everything in your home. Well, in most cities drinking is private.



Śyāmasundara: They were just lifting the ban in some big city in...



Prabhupāda: In Bombay. It was prohibited area. So Gandhi made this prohibition as far as possible. Now they are lifting. Because simply prohibition will not help you. Unless you have got a better engagement, this prohibition will not help you. By law you can say, "Don't do this," but if you have no better engagement, this order of the law, "Don't do this," will not act. Will not act. Just like government, your government is trying to stop this intoxication. They could not. It is increasing. But so far our society is concerned, anyone who is coming here, immediately there is no intoxication. That means he gets something better. Therefore he voluntarily checks himself. And it is possible to check. So unless you give better thing, simply by prohibition you cannot check. That is not possible. The same example again, just like a thief, he knows the prohibitive order that you shall not steal. He knows the prohibitive order even in śāstra, that if a man is a thief he will suffer this kind of hellish condition. So he has heard it from the lawyer and from the śāstra that stealing is not good and he has seen it that a thief is arrested and is punished but still he does it. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not do it. That is the difference. So by law or by pressure you cannot make anyone moral. That's not possible. He has to be given something which is better than morality, then he will stop committing all kinds of sins.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the pleasure of one person will coincide with the pleasure of others, we're all more or less desiring similar pleasures.



Prabhupāda: Coincide?



Śyāmasundara: He will be similar to what other people...



Prabhupāda: That may not be on the similar standard. The standard of pleasure is according to the body. The same example, if you give halavā to the hog, he'll not be satisfied. He wants stool. He has got a body which will not allow him to accept halavā.



Śyāmasundara: But if we take a consensus of all the citizens in the state that we must try to satisfy the majority, for what they expect to be good and happy, happiness.



Prabhupāda: No, he will say that this is my happiness: "I will take meat. You may say that you take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, no it is nonsense. (indistinct)."



Śyāmasundara: But the majority will take meat so...



Prabhupāda: Therefore meat is very good.



Śyāmasundara: That is the standard of pleasure, yes.



Prabhupāda: Therefore to these rascals meat is very good.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, utility.



*Prabhupāda: If majority of the people are meat*-eater, then meat is very good, full of vitamin. Therefore it is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. But we have to see what is the standard. Standard is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: that which increases duration of life, which increases strength, which increases feeling of pleasure, they are sattvika. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the standard is decided by the majority of the people.



Prabhupāda: Majority of people, they are asses. Then what is the help of that votes of the asses. Why don't you take votes from so many animals? Why you take votes from the human beings? In the country, the animals are also there. Therefore a standard of happiness, he must know and if we take that type of happiness, that is Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Śyāmasundara: We derive our standard from authority.



Prabhupāda: Yes, and actually we feel it is so. Not only accept, in the preaching work, the theory is there; but when actually takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he understands that here is the standard of happiness. I receive so many hundreds of letters daily how they are feeling happiness. (end)





MILL.SYA



John Stuart Mill



Śyāmasundara: So the second person we'll discuss of the utilitarians is called John Stuart Mill.



Prabhupāda: He was a great philosopher.



Śyāmasundara: He says that reason is essentially inductive, that is, if we can generalize from particular instances. For instance, we have observed that all men die, so we can say that all men are mortal.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you cannot see all men in your whole life; therefore it is defective. You cannot study all men; therefore it is defective. Which is not possible by you, if you propose something which is not possible by you, then what is the meaning of this? What is the utility?



Śyāmasundara: You mean you cannot generalize from particular instances.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot generalize because your senses are limited, your life is limited. How you can study all men? You cannot go all countries where there are so many men all over the world, universe. You cannot test them. Therefore your method is defective. From his definition, that studying all men*-but you cannot study. You can study a limited number of men. And if you conclude, suppose whoever you have met, you have seen that he has died. But I may say that you might not have seen a man who never dies. Then what will he accomplish?



Śyāmasundara: Well, since knowledge is limited to our experience...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. If your knowledge is limited, then you cannot generalize. Therefore our conclusion is that we don't take knowledge from anyone whose power is limited. There are four defects of the ordinary man*-he may be John Stuart Mill or something-because he's to commit mistakes, he's illusioned. Just like he's talking of that induction, studying all men. This is an illusion. He cannot study. Suppose you have hundreds and thousands of men you have studied. That does not mean the whole set of human being is finished. That is, therefore, this theory is illusion. And because he's an ordinary man, he's illusioned that it is possible. So these are the defects. One commits mistakes, one is illusioned, one cheats. This is cheating also. The theory which he is putting forward is never possible to be executed, and still he's posing himself that he is philosopher. That is cheating. His senses are imperfect. He cannot do that. And still he proposes the theory. That is cheating. So these four defects are there: committing mistake, to illusion, to cheat others, and studying everything with imperfect senses.



Śyāmasundara: He has five methods for ascertaining knowledge.



Prabhupāda: We have already proved that all his methods are defective.



Śyāmasundara: He says there are five ways. All knowledge, he says, is cause and effect. So he said we can determine what is the cause and what is the effect of anything according to these five methods. One is the method of agreement, that is, if we have two or more instances of a phenomenon and there is one common circumstance behind both of them, that we can conclude that that circumstance is the cause of the effect. Just like if we observe that two stones are thrown into the water, and that each stone is thrown by someone, then we can determine that throwing is the common cause of that stone's going into the water, the common circumstance.



Prabhupāda: Why this example? What is the value of this example?



*Śyāmasundara: Any example. Anything that is caused, if there are two instances of it-two balls are dropping*-we can conclude, if we studied both of them, that they were both moved by some person, that that person is the cause of their falling. If there is a common circumstance for any phenomenon.



Prabhupāda: Any phenomenon that has natural law, so that is the cause. And if we go on, so what is the cause of that natural law? Then ultimately we find Kṛṣṇa. Everything, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], everything has got a cause, original source. So if you make actually research work what is the cause of this, what is the cause of this, that is called darśana. Darśana means seeing, finding out the cause. Therefore philosophy is called darśana-śāstra, to see the cause of the cause, cause of the cause, cause of the cause. So ultimately they have found Kṛṣṇa is the cause, original cause of everything.



Śyāmasundara: He is more interested, I think, in the immediate cause of something that is caused immediately by something else. Ultimately Kṛṣṇa is the cause, but what about the immediate cause?



Prabhupāda: Yes, immediate cause, we take, immediate cause. Immediate cause also we accept. So what is the conclusion? There is cause, immediate and remote. That we agree. But what is his proposition?



Śyāmasundara: His proposition is that we can study any instance of a phenomenon and find out the cause by applying these five methods: the method of agreement, then the second one is the method of difference. They're rather complicated.



Prabhupāda: That means five causes.



Śyāmasundara: No. Five methods of studying something to find out the cause. Five tests to find out the circumstances behind the phenomenon, the instance of the phenomenon, to find out the cause.



Prabhupāda: The final agreement.



Śyāmasundara: One is agreement, one is the method of difference. In other words, if we find two rocks, and one is thrown into the water, and the other remains standing still, that we can examine them both and find out that all circumstances for both of the rocks are the same except one, and that one circumstance which is different will be the cause. So say that we find out that both come from the same place, they are both sitting in a similar position, they are both at the same time, they are there, like that, but we find that one rock is thrown by someone and one rock is not thrown by someone. So we can say that the cause of the rock being thrown is the thrower, like that. That's a rough example.



Prabhupāda: That means that to cause everything, there is, behind, a living entity. Just like there are so many rocks, they are not moving, but one rock moves because behind that rock, there is a living entity who pushes the rock.



Śyāmasundara: What about if it accidentally fell off; a thunderbolt hit the rock and it moved, like that, or gravity made it fall.



*Prabhupāda: Gravity, but when you say law of gravity, then the question is that somebody has made that law. One*-we should give, of course-these materialistic philosophers... Just like when Rāmacandra threw stones on the sea, the gravity did not work. It was floating. The rocks were floating. Therefore the law of gravity ultimately is made by the Supreme Lord. So he can change it. So my study of gravity is not final.



Śyāmasundara: One of the other methods of testing is called the method of concomitant variation.



Prabhupāda: This method of studying the cause, so we take the ultimate cause of everything, with His full independence. The ultimate cause can do anything and everything beyond our calculation. There is cause, but the cause is so powerful that it is beyond our calculation how it is being done. Our knowledge is limited; therefore our calculation may be, may be or almost always, is not perfect.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, he observes if a ball being hit by a bat, it always moves. So he concludes that whenever there is circumstance of a bat hitting a ball, that the ball will always move.



Prabhupāda: But the bat is hitting, it is caused by a living being. The bat is not hitting automatically. And not each hitting is of the same force. Therefore the hitting of the ball by the bat, it depends on the other cause, the man who is handling the bat.



Śyāmasundara: Then using another example, that every apple on the tree will fall, but when it is ripe, it will fall to the ground. There is no man involved with that. What about that?



*Prabhupāda: No. That is his imperfect vision. We say that God is everywhere. God is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara*-sthaṁ paramāṇu cayāntara-stham. God is present everywhere, even within the atom. Now the modern atomic theory, they will explain from atomic theory about the falldown of the apples. But we say that within the atom there is God; therefore God is the ultimate cause.



Śyāmasundara: What kind of test do we apply to phenomena to see what is the cause?



Prabhupāda: For every phenomenon there is a cause.



Śyāmasundara: But how do we determine that God is the cause behind everything?



Prabhupāda: Because then we know that God is the ultimate pusher, the pushing begins from there. So it may come through various agents. Just like one railway wagon is pushed by the engines, and it strikes another wagon and that is also pushed; another wagon, and that is pushed, that is also pushed. Similarly, the original pusher is the engine. Our study is like that, that the original, sa aikṣata, sa aikṣata... These are the Vedic... He glanced over, He desired; immediately there was creation. Therefore the original pusher is God, Kṛṣṇa. Now, how it is happening, that we cannot see. Just like same example, the wagon is already pushed, it is coming automatically. A child sees, "Oh, this wagon is coming automatically, and it caught another wagon, and it is now moved." He sees the (effect). But he did not see that ultimately there was a big engine that has pushed it.



Śyāmasundara: If we see a phenomenon like the rain falling or anything, and we want to apply the test that will prove that God is the cause of that phenomenon, what test do we apply?



Prabhupāda: The śāstras, the Vedic literature is there, the *Upaniṣads* are there, books are there, śāstra cakṣuṣa. You have to see it through the śāstras. That is the injunction. You cannot see directly. You have to see śāstra cakṣuṣa. Your eyes, they are defective. Just like if you read astrology, astronomy, then you can understand what is the actual volume or the bulk of the sun, but by your eyes you are seeing just a disc. So all your senses are defective. So directly seeing or perceiving or tasting has no value, because these are all defective. So we have to, it is said, you should see through śāstras, through authoritative instruction.



Śyāmasundara: So if we see the apple fall from the tree, the test that we apply is the sastric test. In order to see God in that act of falling, we have to see it through the eyes of the śāstras.



*Prabhupāda: Now what do the scientists say*-the law of gravity.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. The fruit became ripe, the stem...



Prabhupāda: The law of gravity, why was it not applying..., why did it not fall before?



Śyāmasundara: Now the fruit has become ripe so the stem has rotted...



Prabhupāda: Therefore the law of gravity is not all. There is another condition. So that he does not know.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, many conditions must...



Prabhupāda: Yes. So these conditions are made by God. The same apple is hanging and not falling down. That means other conditions are not yet fulfilled. So therefore simply studying law of gravity is not perfect.



Śyāmasundara: No. They all study that the fruit was not yet ripe, and when it becomes ripe the stem rots, dies, and then it will become loose and fall.



Prabhupāda: So that means there are other conditions. And ripening condition is also not an effect. There are similar other fruits also. Why are they not ripened?



Śyāmasundara: Well, eventually they will all become ripened.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the law, not in your hand. When it will ripen, your law of gravitation will act. And that ripening condition is not in your hand.



Śyāmasundara: But there are other material conditions that cause the ripening.



Prabhupāda: Whatever conditions they may be, these conditions are already there, made by God. You are simply studying some of them, that's all. Therefore your studying is not sufficient. Here is a scientist. He'll say. What do you think?



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our senses are imperfect, simply by empirical scientific knowledge is (indistinct) are not complete (indistinct). So you..., we cannot compete with māyā. The ultimate conclusion is that there is a supreme cause.



*Prabhupāda: Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. So our knowledge, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, our knowledge is perfect. We say everything is caused by Kṛṣṇa. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Even if you study the way the sun and the rain and so on combined to make this fruit ripe, you still have the question, "Well, why is there fruit in the first place?" Why is there fruit? Why has fruit appeared on this planet? There's no cause, apparently. But God has a cause.



*Prabhupāda: God has made the law so perfect that one after*-one cause affects something, and that affects another thing, another thing, one after another, so many things, ultimately. So we do not know so many things. We see the fruit, but how the fruit is growing, under which law, we simply explain nature. But it is not nature. There is a law. It is not only growing, the apples are having this nice color outside the skin, they have been painted; everything is perfectly being done by the laws, by the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you want to make a beautiful fruit, you paint it yellow or red, you take so much time. You apply your energy. The same energy is being applied there. Otherwise why, wherefrom you get the idea that a nice fruit can be painted like this? God is dictating that "You want to make a fruit, paint, you do like this, do like that." So similarly He is doing. But my doing takes so much time, because my energy is so blunt and limited. But His energy is so perfect that immediately (indistinct). The same example, just like Telex. There are so many methods, now this is latest. Immediately type here, immediately there. So before that, one could not believe that how is it I type here and five thousand miles away the type striking. So there is a law. It is not that it is magic.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see. Before the Telex there was law, but we didn't know it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We didn't know it. Similarly, everything is being done under some systematic law, but we do not know it.



Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. There is one common observation also in science. They say that nothing can come out of nothing. That is already there. But it is not known, due to our imperfect senses.



Prabhupāda: That is science, we do not know.



Śyāmasundara: Nothing can come out of nothing.



Prabhupāda: Nothing. If something has come out, then background must be something. Therefore our definition is janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], everything, the root cause, the original source, is the Brahman, Absolute Truth. So whatever we are exhibiting, just like the other day, whatever we are thinking, there is some existence. Otherwise it cannot come to our ideas and thinking. The same scientific theory: nothing can come out of nothing.



Śyāmasundara: So if you are thinking of something, then it is already there.



Kṛṣṇa Kanti: The scientists say they haven't created something. They have..., we've discovered something.



Prabhupāda: That's it. That I also said the other day. We can say we have discovered. We cannot invent. America was discovered, not invented. The land was already there.



Bhavānanda: We want to claim credit.



Prabhupāda: Anyone does something new, he takes credit. [break] ...so sun is taking away life. Why you were not present when we were discussing this verse?



Śyāmasundara: The sun is taking our life?



Devānanda: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. I came in about halfway through.



Prabhupāda: Why? You should have come.



Śyāmasundara: I was typing. I should have come.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you hear, how you will be able to preach? Hearing is very important.



Devotee: Do the rays of the sun actually take away our life?



Prabhupāda: Rays... Actually, don't you find you're dying daily? Then? That is real.



Devotee: It means each time the sun rises and set...



Prabhupāda: Yes. One day's past means one day you lose. That's all. The sunshine..., the sunrise and sunset means passing days, that's all.



Devotee: (in background) She said it was only $400 and it would be another hundred at the end of June.



Prabhupāda: Oh! That's all right. No. I thought if it's dropped somewhere.



Devotee: She said Karandhara had made a mistake. She told him $400 and he said $500.



Prabhupāda: Oh. That's all right.



Śyāmasundara: Today we will finish up John Stuart Mill, by discussing his ethical, social and political philosophy...



Prabhupāda: Somebody was typing this, you told me, this philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: Two girls.



Prabhupāda: Typing?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) done?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. They've done some.



Prabhupāda: Let's see how they're doing.



Śyāmasundara: Well, they're going to... Whatever they cannot understand, they're leaving blanks, and I'll listen later and fill it in.



Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: We were discussing last time these utilitarians. Their philosophy is that the greatest good for the greatest number of people, and that that should be followed, that law, and that that means the greatest pleasure for the greatest number.



*Prabhupāda: Greatest good for the greatest number of people. So that means even if the people are fools and rascals. Does it mean so? Now some of the fools and rascals, they, just like at the present moment, they'll want, "Give us LSD." Then LSD is first*-class thing? Is that philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: Well, according to some...



Prabhupāda: Well, "according to," that's another thing. We are discussing whether this is philosophy or nonsense. That is our question. The greatest number at the present moment in your country, they'll say, "LSD is very nice. We like it." So does it mean government will allow, "Yes, the greatest number of people are wanting it. It must be..."



Śyāmasundara: Mill makes a distinction between quality and quantity. If we are only thinking of quantity of pleasure...



*Prabhupāda: Then if you come to the quality, then it will be the smallest, because quality... Suppose the whole population, two million population, if you pick up from the population quality, first*-class population, you find very small number. In a mass meeting if you ask in the meeting, "Who has passed M.A. examination?" maybe three or four may come. Quality.



Śyāmasundara: But I mean the pleasure, the type of pleasure, he says it should be qualitatively and quantitatively the greatest.



*Prabhupāda: Pleasure also, whatever you take, when you put the question of quality of pleasure... Just like ordinary people, they are taking pleasure in eating, sleeping, mating, drinking, like that. But Kṛṣṇa pleasure is transcendental pleasure. Very few people are taking it. Very small number. So the same question again, why he said that many number of people, they are taking pleasure, so*-called pleasure in taking LSD? So will that be taken as pleasure or will that be accepted? We are talking of philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Qualitatively that's not a very high pleasure, so he would not recommend it.



*Prabhupāda: What is his philosophy? First of all he says the greatest number of people, generally... After all, these conditioned souls, they are fools. So if the greatest number you take, that is a great number of fools only. Because in the conditioned state, abodha*-jāto, they are all fools. Our Vedic philosophy is that a man is born fool, but he is made intelligent by educational culture. That is fact. That is fact. In practical life also we see that we send our boys, our children, to school to become educated. Out of the fools, so many fools, children, who go to school, some of them take degrees, and out of many who take the degrees, some of them become postgraduates, M.A., and out of many postgraduates, some of them become still more learned, doctor in philosophy, like that. So if you go to the quality, the number will decrease. You cannot say greatest number.



Śyāmasundara: But his idea is to find or to utilize those principles of life which give qualitatively and quantitatively the most pleasure to the most people. That means, he says, by quality he means... Like, for instance, he makes the statement, "It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. It is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied."



Prabhupāda: But how many Socrates will you find? Then again he comes to the minimum. You cannot find Socrates on the street, loitering.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that that standard of pleasure...



Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of maximum men? A Socrates you will find in millions, one.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that that standard of pleasure that Socrates...



*Prabhupāda: Then there is no question of maximum people. The number of Socrates is not maximum. That is minimum. That is minimum. If you come to the question of quality, the quality philosophy, quality understanding, that is for the minimum. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of millions and millions of persons, one person is trying to become perfect." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetthi māṁ tattvataḥ: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of millions of such perfect men, one may understand Me, Kṛṣṇa." That is not quantity, that is quality. That is quality.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the highest quality pleasure, such as Socrates would enjoy, the high intelligence...



Prabhupāda: That is not for mass of men, not for the greatest number of men. That is the minimum. That philosophy is understood by minimum number.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that this standard should be applied to all men, that all men should be trained to find pleasure in this standard.



Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That means quality pleasure should be introduced to the... What, at the beginning you said maximum pleasure?



Śyāmasundara: Maximum number. He wants to find out something that will give them maximum pleasure. The purpose of government, politics, social and ethical life is to provide the greatest pleasure for the greatest number. Now to...



Prabhupāda: Greatest pleasure to the greatest number.



Śyāmasundara: ...find out what is the greatest pleasure, we look for the greatest quality, which we find in someone like Socrates, he says. And then we introduce that as the standard for the greatest quantity.



Prabhupāda: But that is not acceptable by the greatest number. That is to be accepted by the smallest number.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But he says that should be the standard.



*Prabhupāda: That is not meant for mass of people, the greatest number. The mass of people, abodha*-jāta, they are fools and rascals. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement cannot be understood by mass of people. A selected number of men who are fortunate, they can understand.



Śyāmasundara: He advises that the state or the ...



Prabhupāda: Just like ekaś candra tamo hanti. Moon, you will find one in the sky, but stars, millions. But moon is wanted, not the stars, to drive away the darkness. That is our philosophy. You cannot say that there may be many moons. No. That is not possible. Many stars, maybe, which have no utility. They are glittering only. What is called? Peeping?



Śyāmasundara: Twinkling.



Prabhupāda: Twinkling. But they cannot drive away darkness. That is not possible. Glowworms. As soon as you come to the quality, that is the lowest number, minimum.



Śyāmasundara: He is trying to find out the standard of pleasure that is most desirable.



*Prabhupāda: That he does not know. That he has to learn from us. He may be a big philosopher in the Western countries, but our utility of pleasure he does not know. Our pleasure is... [break] ...incessant. It will not stop. That is the standard of high*-class pleasure. That is quality. Here in the material world we have got experience, we get pleasure, but that is transient. Just like ordinary men, they understand sex pleasure is the highest pleasure. Actually, on sex pleasure the whole material world is existing. But how long this sex pleasure can remain? A few minutes. So our philosophy is we don't want that few minutes' pleasure. We want pleasure which will continue perpetually. Nityānanda. Nitya. Nitya means eternal. Ānanda means bliss. Satyānanda, real pleasure. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. We want the actual truth. That is quality. So that standard is mentioned in the Vedic literature, that those who are intelligent persons, those who are yogis... Yogi means perfect man. So they want pleasure which is eternal, not transient. Transient pleasure is liked by fools and rascals. Because fools and rascals, they do not know what is their constitutional position. But one who is intelligent, one who is learned, he knows his constitutional position, that he is eternal, he is not this body. Therefore he must be seeking eternal pleasure. Bodily pleasure... Body is transient, and bodily pleasures are also transient. So that is not sought after by any intelligent man. Those are sought by rascals. Because one identifies himself with the body, therefore bodily pleasure is this pleasure. But one who knows that he is not body, he is eternal. Then he seeks what is that eternal pleasure.



Śyāmasundara: He says that a small amount of a higher type of pleasure is better than a great amount of a lower type of pleasure.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our philosophy. What is that..., small?



Śyāmasundara: A small amount, a small quantity of a high quality pleasure...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...is better than a great quantity of low quality pleasure.



*Prabhupāda: That is right. In Bhagavad*-gītā: svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. If one executes devotional service a little, he can be delivered from the greatest danger. In another place it is said that if anyone by sentiment accepts Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any much understanding... Sometimes we are led by the majority, "Oh, so many people are chanting. Let me also chant." Even in that way, by sentiment if one accepts Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and because he did not accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness very diligently, or he was not very strong, later on he may fall down-still he is gainer. Still he is gainer. While on the other hand, a person who is very intelligent, karmī, "Oh, what is this nonsense Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Let us do our duty. We have got our duty to serve our country, to our family, we must earn money," and so many things, that is called varṇāśrama. According to varṇa and āśrama we are working. They think to execute the duties of varṇāśrama is first class. They do not take to devotional service. For such persons, Bhāgavata says, "What do they gain?" What do they gain? That is our philosophy. That Kṛṣṇa consciousness qualitatively, it is so great that even taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness even for a few days, just like this boy, what is his name? He has come back...



*Śyāmasundara: Hari*-vilāsa.



Prabhupāda: He has come back. He is frank enough. Rayarāma, he is coming, but he wants to put some condition, but we say "No. No conditions." You see? Puruṣottama is writing me letter, "Excuse me." You see? The other boy, what is his name? No, no. Kauśalyā's husband?



Śyāmasundara: Durlabha.



Prabhupāda: Durlabha. He is also coming. They cannot go. They cannot go. Svalpam apy asya, even for a few days they have mixed with us, it is very difficult for them to give it up. The quality is so nice.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, this is Mill's idea, that...



Prabhupāda: Just like his wife went away and the boys went away, and again come back. Because the quality is so great.



Śyāmasundara: So that's his idea. He says that this standard should be introduced in the society.



*Prabhupāda: So therefore, those who are sane men, actually philosophers, they should take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the best philosophy and best utilitarian product. They should take it seriously. But they have no such knowledge. They are simply speculating. But when the actual thing is given, they cannot understand, they cannot evaluate. We were discussing this morning: except this, everything is taking our life, except this. Uttama-śloka*-vārtayā. Tasyarte yat-kṣano nīta uttamaśloka-vārtayā. Except this, this discussion of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, except this time, any time, that is being taken away by the sun. Anything in this world, whatever it may be, they are all transient. This is only permanent. And because we are permanent, eternal, we should give, we should accept things which has permanent value. It is foolishness to be satisfied with something temporary. Tasyarte yat-kṣano nīta. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says also: saced nirartha ksana-nīta kanuhani. Sacet nirartha (?), such valuable time, if it is spoiled without any utility, kanuhani tatho vidhaḥ (?). Then what is the greatest loss than that? So you should utilize this philosophical point of Mr... Sir... What is it?



Śyāmasundara: John Stuart Mill.



Prabhupāda: Sir John Stuart Mill to support our movement. Yes. Write one article that "John Stuart Mill suggests this. This is real utility, and here is real utility."



Śyāmasundara: He gives the same idea by saying that it is better to be like Socrates and be dissatisfied than to be like a pig satisfied.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice. Just like we, we have given up everything, dissatisfied. I left home because I was dissatisfied with my wife and children; gave it up. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Just like to be a devotee, even though I may be dissatisfied a little, still, but it's better than to be like a pig satisfied.



*Prabhupāda: Dissatisfaction is a good thing if it is for better advancement. That is wanted. Dissatisfaction. Just like the karmīs, they are also dissatisfied with 100,000 of dollars. That means they want to make one million thousands of dollars. So that kind of dissatisfaction for the karmī is good, because he can increase further assets. Similarly, if I am dissatisfied spiritually or I am not making advance, I am still on the material platform. That is good. That dissatisfaction is... Socrates also. Yes. And ass, cats, dogs, they are satisfied with a morsel of grass, that's all. You see? A little stool, what is the value of that satisfaction? What is the value of that? That is our philosophy. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu is dissatisfied. What is that? Kadā tava*-nāma-grahaṇe bhaviṣyate.



yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa

cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam

śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ

*govinda*-viraheṇa me



*Nayanaṁ galad*-aśru-dhārayā, cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam. What is that verse? Nayanaṁ galad-aśru-dhārayā? Pulakair nicitaṁ vapuḥ. Gadgada-girā. Kadā tava-nāma-grahaṇe bhaviṣyati. There is dissatisfaction, that "When My heart will be throbbing? When torrents of rain will come out from My eyes? When My speech will be faltering? When that day will come?" That means this ordinary way He's not satisfied. That is the ecstatic summit: one becomes like a madman, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So He is expecting, "When that stage will come?" This stage comes when one is in the summit of chanting, this stage, aṣṭa-śakti-vidhā, eight kinds of transformation. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is putting forward that "When that stage will come?" Dissatisfaction. This is dissatisfaction. He says, "I have not a pinch of devotion to Kṛṣṇa." Even after crying, even coming to that stage of crying, He says, "No, it is not the stage. I am crying just to make a show that I am a great devotee. I do not love Kṛṣṇa. The evidence is that I am still living. Without Kṛṣṇa and still I'm living. That is My imperfection. If I would have been really lover of Kṛṣṇa, without Kṛṣṇa I would have long, long ago died. But that I have not done. I am still living." So who can show dissatisfaction like this? He says that "I am still living. This is the evidence that I do not love Kṛṣṇa." Even coming to the crying stage, first of all He said, "When I shall cry incessantly for want of Kṛṣṇa?" And again coming to that stage, He is still dissatisfied. He says, "I am simply crying just to make a show. I do not love Kṛṣṇa. If there was pinch of love for Kṛṣṇa, then I would have died long, long ago without Kṛṣṇa." This is dissatisfaction. Who can show such kind of dissatisfaction? And who can feel such dissatisfaction? So the best utility is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, from any philosophical point of view.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the only standard we have for that, to understand what is desirable, is that people actually do desire it.



Prabhupāda: Desire Kṛṣṇa, they do not know. Even he does not know, Stuart Mill. We are desiring for Kṛṣṇa. Actually we love Kṛṣṇa. That we have experienced several times. First of all, I love my country, or I love my body. Why I love? Because I, the spirit soul, I am there within the body. Therefore I love my body.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that if something is desired by people, then it is desirable.



Prabhupāda: That means... People desire so many things. Just like hog desires stool. Is that desirable? So similarly, the Bowery bums, they desire simply drinking. Is that very desirable thing? Desirable by the quality. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu desires, that is desire, not the bums. If something is desired by a personality like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that is standard of desire. He desires Kṛṣṇa. That is real standard of desire. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. The greatest personalities, what they are desiring, that is standard.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. There would seem to be a fallacy in what he says, because...



Prabhupāda: He does not know anything. For the fools he is hero, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: Just like if you are sick, the medicine the doctor may prescribe may be bitter, not desirable at all, but it will cure you. Still you don't want it. It's not desirable.



Prabhupāda: He says?



Śyāmasundara: No. I mean that seems like he..., there's a fallacy in his reasoning, because if the medicine were undesirable, still it will cure you.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like I was not desiring to take my medicine. When I was a child it was very difficult to give me medicine. Three men required. (laughter) Yes. One will capture me, another (laughing) will take my legs, and then my mother will by force, I will do like this. (gestures locking of teeth, trying to force spoon into mouth, much laughter all around) This was my position. I won't agree to take any medicine. I was so obstinate.



Śyāmasundara: So that which is really desirable...



Prabhupāda: But because it is desirable, the force was applied.



Śyāmasundara: So we cannot judge what is desirable. Only...



*Prabhupāda: No. Therefore our philosophy is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. The great personalities, what do they desire? Therefore we accept spiritual master, higher authority. Whatever he desires, that should be standard of desire, not my desire. Just like Kṛṣṇa desired the fight, not Arjuna's desire. Arjuna desired not to fight, but he changed his desire not to fight, to fight, because Kṛṣṇa desired, wanted it. Therefore our standard of desire should be that which is desired by greater personalities, not by me. What I am? I should always think of me as fool. Just like the same, when I was child, I was not desiring to take medicine, but my parents desired. That desire should be forced. Similarly, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if actually the state is serious to do the best desirable thing, they should make a law that anyone who is not chanting sixteen rounds, he will be hanged! Then everyone must chant: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa*-the whole world. (laughter) Yes. There was a king. Yes. He wanted to see that everyone must have tilaka and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So he was inspecting silently "Whether my subjects, they are chanting?" So one day he was... How you say? What is called? Incognito, in disguise, he was going. So one householder he was asking "Oh, bring them the beads. I will not forget, or they did not do. I have to abide by the laws, so Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then the king could understand that "My order is being carried out in this way. A whole day he forgot, now he may be captured by law; therefore he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." It happened so.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are two moral sanctions for our conduct: one is the internal sanction, or our own inner conscience...



*Prabhupāda: These are all nonsense*-inner conscience. These are all nonsense. He's a nonsense philosopher. What do you mean, inner conscience?



Śyāmasundara: Well, our sense of duty...



Prabhupāda: Sense of duty is different from conscience. The duty, that should be taught by higher personalities: "This is your duty." Just like our principles. The spiritual master orders we must chant so many times, you must give up all these bad habits, sinful habits. This is duty. By conscience what you will understand of duty, a child?



Śyāmasundara: He's not so much talking about what is the duty, but that these two things are what motivate our moral behavior. They are what check and safeguard our moral behavior: one is conscience, or my own sense of duty, whatever that may be.



Prabhupāda: But how you will know it is? He says that one should know whatever his duty. So whatever what is his duty, how he will know it?



Śyāmasundara: Well, that, our duty is that which produces the most good for the most people.



Prabhupāda: This is also vague. This is also vague. There is no definite understanding.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the golden rule, "Do unto others."



Prabhupāda: Then if I conclude that most of the people are taking LSD, so to take LSD is my duty. Is that all right? He is vague. This is not philosophy. How a rascal can conclude about his duty? Rascal has to be trained to know what is duty. A rascal cannot conclude out of his own accord that "This is my duty" or "This is the best thing." Mr. Stuart... What is his name?



Śyāmasundara: John Stuart Mill.



Prabhupāda: John Stuart, he may be able, but it is not possible for ordinary man to know what is duty. The child plays, he does not know that his duty is to study. So parents teach him that "This is your duty. You must go to school. You must learn." So duty is not created by the rascals and fools. Duty is created by higher authority.



Śyāmasundara: He would agree with that also, but here he says that the higher authorities who determine what is duty, that their rationale or their guiding principles should be what is the greatest good for the greatest number, and that should be our duty.



Prabhupāda: Then how he suggests that a man should know his duty, like that? Then he has to approach that greatest authority. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is our philosophy. In order to know our duty, in order to know what is knowledge, we must approach a guru. Gurum evābhigacchet. We must, eva, certainly.



Śyāmasundara: His guiding principle for that, to determine what is the greatest good for the greatest number, is the golden rule of the Christians, "Do unto others as you..."



Prabhupāda: That means you have to approach Christ through... One cannot determine himself. Golden rules of Christianity means that he has to abide by the orders of Christ. That is superior authority.



Śyāmasundara: That rule is, "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you." That is the golden rule, this rule of the utilitarians.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But they are not following. They are killing, but when he is to be killed, he goes away. But he does not think that "I don't want to be killed. Why shall I kill?" And Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But they do not abide by this, and still they will call themselves Christians. Who wants to be killed? Nobody wants. Then why you are killing other animals? Where is your philosophy? If that is the philosophy, that I don't want to be killed, why shall I kill others? Who is following this? I shall kill you under some bad name. We'll give the dog a bad name and hang it. I want to kill cows and I say, "No, they have no soul." And what is the proof that we have got soul? I can kill you? Why there is law? By killing a man, he is hanged. Then why there is no such law for killing animal? What is this philosophy? Rascal's philosophy.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that the second sanction for moral conduct is external*-that is, fear of displeasing men, other men, or fear of displeasing God, hope of winning their favor, that this keeps us in moral conduct.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means accepting authority. That means accepting authority. So without authority, nobody can be good. That is the conclusion of this philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That we accept. Without becoming, without following authority, nobody can become good. That is not possible. Therefore our Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You must approach a guru if you want to be really learned. Like that. John Stuart had any guru?



Śyāmasundara: His father.



Prabhupāda: His father.



Śyāmasundara: Also a great philosopher, James Mill.



Prabhupāda: So without following guru authority, nobody can be learned. That is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: Actually, he accepts authority in both cases of moral, of moral sanctions. One, he says, that the authority should determine what is duty, and also so that my conscience will keep me following the duty.



Prabhupāda: That duty means to take orders from authority. That is real duty. Otherwise, I cannot create my duty.



Śyāmasundara: If I accept the authority as my duty...



Prabhupāda: The orders of the authority.



Śyāmasundara: The orders of the authority as my duty, then my conscience keeps me following that order. My conscience.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you agree.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Authority means we agree to follow.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Just like we follow Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up everything. Surrender unto Me," we accept that. So similarly, that is the duty. Now I may accept Kṛṣṇa, you may accept Christ, but that doesn't matter. But duty means what the higher authority orders, you must follow. That is duty.



Śyāmasundara: And if I am aware what is that duty...



Prabhupāda: You will be aware as soon as you approach the higher authority. He'll give you order, "Do this," "Do not do this."



Śyāmasundara: Then my conscience tells me if I am doing it right or wrong, my inner conscience, it tells me...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That anyone can understand. Even a dog can understand. You see, if the dog is trying to enter the room, I say "Hut!" he can also, he has got conscience, "Oh, the master does not want me to enter." That conscience is there in cats and dogs. That is not very high consciousness. Real consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That discrimination is there.



Śyāmasundara: So my inner conscience tells me...



Prabhupāda: You know the consciousness of the tiger? Actual fact, you know the big, big circus tigers are trained to play. So the training is, I learned it from their men, that when the tiger comes, raw tiger from the (jungle) comes... What is the tiger player, player, what he is called? What is his name?



Śyāmasundara: Ring master? Trainer. Trainer. Animal trainer.



Prabhupāda: Trainer, yes. So the raw tiger is kept in the cage and the trainer comes for several days, he simply whips. Then for several days whips and gives some food, and then he comes with the whip and food. So he does not whip, he gives some food. In this way tiger becomes tamed by him. So he plays before the trainer only. He has got that whip. Because he is animal, he has got that impression, "He will kill me." Therefore he plays. As soon as this man goes away, he will immediately attack, anyone comes. Just like dog, he fears the (master); for others he jumps over. So it is a question of training. So he has got the conscience. My point is that he has got the conscience, "Oh, here is my trainer. He will kill me." He has got this conscience. This is good. "If I attack, oh, he will kill me. But here is an ordinary man, I can kill him." So he has difference of conscience. Even the tiger, even the cats, and the dogs. This discrimination, power of discrimination, is there in the animals also. But that is not consciousness. Real consciousness is to accept Kṛṣṇa. That is real consciousness. [break]



Śyāmasundara: He advocates complete individualism and freedom, that everyone should have complete freedom to do...



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. Nobody has got that.



Śyāmasundara: He says that everyone should be free...



Prabhupāda: Then everyone should be philosopher. He has got his own philosophy. Everyone has got his own philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that in this way by everyone being free to compete, the best ones will come out.



Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is not freedom; that is competition.



Śyāmasundara: Competition. But in order to compete, there has to be freedom.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing. But nobody is independent. That is our point of view. Everyone is dependent. Somebody is voluntarily dependent on Kṛṣṇa and somebody is by force dependent on māyā. That's all. But he must be dependent.



Śyāmasundara: He says in this way that society should be organized so that there is freedom of belief, freedom to unite, freedom of taste, freedom of competition. But one individual's freedom should not encroach upon another individual's freedom.



Prabhupāda: Then why they are killing? The freedom of the poor animals, why they encroach on the freedom of others? Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam [Īśo mantra 1]. Do not encroach upon others' freedom. That is Vedic injunction. That is nice. But why these people are encroaching upon the freedom of these animals? The birds, they are flying, freedom, the ducks. Why they kill? Encroaching upon other's freedom. Without any harm, the birds are flying, without... If you kill an aggressor then you are right. Suppose somebody is coming to kill you, then you kill first. That is good. But if somebody's not doing anything harm to you, and if you kill, then what is this philosophy? What is this philosophy? Give him some bad name, because I have to kill him. "Oh, he has no soul." You can attack, he has no consciousness, you have no soul. You can attack him. Why you are killing? Let him kill you. So far this philosophy of religion, he says that God is good, but that he is involved in a world which is not his own making. That God didn't create the world, but that he is involved with it. Then we should be judged by Mill. God is good, but not as good as he thinks he is. That is his opinion about God.



Śyāmasundara: No. God is... God is good...



Prabhupāda: God is good in all conditions, or God is good when Stuart Mill accepts? What is the position of God?



Śyāmasundara: He says that the presence of evil indicates that if God were everything, that He would be not so good.



Prabhupāda: Why? Therefore God has to depend on the free will or on the opinion of Mr. Mill? Is that? He says that God is not so good. God is good, but not so good because he does not approve all of His activities.



Śyāmasundara: No. He says that God is good, but He is limited in His power; otherwise everything would be good.



Prabhupāda: How nonsense he is! And he is philosopher. He is making God limited, and he is philosopher. Just see.



Śyāmasundara: He says if God were good then everything would be good.



*Prabhupāda: Everything is good! That is our philosophy. When the God kills the demons, immediately flowers are showered upon Him from the sky. You have not read in...? He is good. He is always good. He has no idea of God, and still he poses himself as philosopher. God is good. Kṛṣṇa chanted, danced with others' wives at dead of night. Any man who does it, he is immediately a debauch, licentious. But still we worship that rasa*-līlā. We worship that rasa-līlā. We keep the picture of God's dancing with others' wives. That is God. In all circumstances, God is good. That is worshipable. That is idea of God. Not that I put Him under my judgment: "Oh, yes, you are good, but not so good." Then I am a fool. I create my own God. "I am better than God. I can create God." No. God creates you. You cannot create God.



Śyāmasundara: He says that because there is evil present in the world, that this shows...



*Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is evil, what is good. He should know what is created by God is good, even if it appears to be evil to us. That is conception of God. I may think it is evil, but it is good. I do not know how it is good*-that is my fault. That is my fault. But it is good. If I put God under my discrimination, under my judgment, that He is not good. He is not God; He is dog. God cannot be under my judgment. God is good always.



Śyāmasundara: So that's all for John Stuart Mill. (end)





JAMES.SYA



William James



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing American philosopher William James. His philosophy is called pragmatism, or that which can be practically applied. The central thesis of his philosophy is that the whole function of thought is to produce habits of action. In other words, he was tired of theoretical philosophy, and he wanted to see that philosophy had practical application.



Prabhupāda: So philosophy without practical application is called mental speculation. It has no value. We agree to that. Philosophy must be practically applied in life. That is real philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is a question, "What difference would it make, practically, to anyone, if this notion rather than that notion were true?" He says that the criterion for deciding that question is the practicality of something. If there are two questions, two notions, then the standard of judgment should be which notion is applicable in practice.



Prabhupāda: Which notion should be...?



Śyāmasundara: Which notion will have the better result in practice.



*Prabhupāda: Which is factual, not theoretical*-that will have good effect in practice. What is his example?



Śyāmasundara: There is no example given, but for instance, if there are two different theories involving a subject, then that theory which is more easily practiced is more true. It has become part of our experience; that is true. He says that anything that is meaningful or real must have some influence on practice on our experience, and vice verse. Anything that is practiced must be meaningful or real.



Prabhupāda: So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have invited our students, and when they actually practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the result is immediately there. Just like you all European and American boys, you were eating meat, and other things were practiced, but since you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you have left it. So by practicing, we see the practical result; therefore this is most practical.



Śyāmasundara: What about, for instance, people who are practicing sense gratification, and they find it very practical to gratify their senses. Does this mean that it is meaningful or real?



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is real. But by sense gratification we will gradually glide down to the hellish condition of life. Therefore sense gratification should not be allowed unrestricted. That is practical. If you eat more, you suffer from indigestion. If you have more sex life, then you get tuberculosis. This is practical. If you indulge in intoxication, then gradually you become a nonsense, crazy. Therefore when we say that "Don't do this," this is practical.



Śyāmasundara: So it is a matter of degree which is more practical than something else. Sense gratification or communism or any other "ism," it's practiced (indistinct) effect, but that effect...



Prabhupāda: But if it has bad effect then what is the use of it? It must have good effect. Effect must be there, but if it is bad, that is not practical. The effect must be good and continuous.



Viśāla: But that good result is relative, depending upon who is deciding whether it is good. In other words, Lenin or Mao, they feel that the practical result of their philosophy is good.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but now Mao disagrees with the practical utility of Russian philosophy. So where is the stability? And similarly, the Russians don't agree with the Chinese, so what is practical for China is not practical for the Russians. So which one we shall take?



Viśāla: That which is practical for both.



Prabhupāda: That means both of them are not practical. It will be proved in due course of time.



Śyāmasundara: He says that terms such as "God" and "matter" and "absolute" and terms like that must have cash value or practical worth. He says, "You must bring out of each work its practical cash value."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement daily brings cash value without any business, without any labor. What do you think?



Viśāla: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Viśāla knows very well.



Śyāmasundara: So when we use the word "God," it has cash value?



Prabhupāda: Cash value. We are going to everyone, we are simply showing some book and taking (indistinct). You can say, somebody may say, you are giving books worth $200 and taking $1,100...



Śyāmasundara: I think this may be one reason why Kṛṣṇa consciousness is thriving in America, because this is a typically American idea, that everything must have a cash value or it is useless.



Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has cash value. Even in Los Angeles, outsiders, they are surprised: "How these people live in such a nice house, eat such nicely, and have so many cars, and they have no anxieties, although they do not work, they have no business?" So what can be more cash value than this?



Devotee: And no bills for psychoanalysis.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there, but still they do not work, and these rascals, they work the whole day and night, and still they are not happy. What more cash value we can expect than Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Śyāmasundara: He says theories must become instruments, and not just answers to questions which we rest upon. They must become instruments.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Theory is instrument. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: He says that, about the nature of truth, that truth is more than just an agreement of idea with reality, but it also has a practical significance, that whatever is practical is true.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Practical we can see from the verse of Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, that anyone who has got a slight merciful glance of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he thinks that Brahman liberation is as good as hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. And the heavenly planets, they are phantasmagoria, and yoga*-siddhi, that is not a very important thing. And people are suffering on this material condition. (But) for a devotee it is simply pleasing. Everywhere he goes he feels pleased, while others seeing full of anxiety. Devotees, they are seeing everything pleasing. So these things happen simply by a fragment of the merciful glance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu upon His devotees. Viśvaṁ pūrṇam, they do not care for any big scholar or many exalted personalities, just like we challenge anyone, even we don't care for Dr. Radhakrishnan, who is so much exalted. So this is practical. Because one has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore these things happen. (to guest:) Please sit down. (Bengali)



Śyāmasundara: His idea of truth is that truth means experience.



Prabhupāda: That is our proposal. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. Bhakti means one who advances in bhakti, he becomes..., he has no more any taste for material enjoyment. The more one increases in bhakti cult, he decreases his tendency for material enjoyment. That is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra. Unless one becomes detestful for material things, it is to be understood that he is not making progress. This is practical. The example is given just like a hungry man: when he eats, he feels, as he goes on eating, proportionately he feels satisfaction and strength of (indistinct). Similarly, one who is advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will feel spiritually strong and no taste for material enjoyment. This is practical.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that truth is created in the same manner as health and wealth are created.



Prabhupāda: Truth is not created. Health can be created, but truth is existing always. It is not created.



Śyāmasundara: He sees that truth is developing in the same way as...



Prabhupāda: Truth is not developing, but you are gradually progressing towards truth. Truth is not developing. Just like the sun is not developing, but as the clouds disappear, you are developing your sight to see the sun. That's all. The sun is not developing. The sun is there in its position.



Śyāmasundara: He calls truth a system of verification; in other words, a process whereby ideas become true and they are made true by events in our experience. As we get more experience, then truth is created.



*Prabhupāda: Not created. Truth is there. Truth is revealed. As you make progress, so the truth becomes revealed. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Just like in Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that "As one makes his surrendering process complete, I become revealed to him accordingly."



Śyāmasundara: But if an idea works when it is applied to concrete facts of experience, then it becomes a true idea, and we accept it as a true idea. So as we develop our experience, our life progresses, then we develop truth because we see that this idea works in my experience, so then it becomes true. Is this not the process?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our process. Just like one enters to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the beginning by faith. He has on practical experience. But suppose somebody sees that "These people, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, appear to be very bright*-faced," just like in your country they may have been known, the bright-faced. So he gets a little interest. So that interest increases. First of all he comes with little faith and interest, but as he associates with us, the interest increases. That is true. Otherwise why are they sticking?



Śyāmasundara: His experience proves that the ideas are true.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, how you European and American boys, you are satisfied with the shirt only? Where is your necktie, coat and boot and everything?



Śyāmasundara: Because their idea doesn't have practical value for us.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) You are practically realizing that a simple life is better than this artificial way of life. So that is true.



Śyāmasundara: But to a businessman a shirt, and a coat and a tie, they have practical value.



Prabhupāda: Practical value is all right. When you go to take some business, then you must satisfy him. Not that I require, but because I am going to get some business from a person, so I have to satisfy him. The Indian word is abruci khana phalusi pay na. When you go to meet somebody, so you must dress yourself so that your dress may attract. So dress is not required for you, but because you are going to attract some person, then you may dress like a gentleman. But when you eat yourself, Kṛṣṇa prasāda, you don't require to constantly think (indistinct) whether he'll be pleased or not. That doesn't require. This is practical.



Śyāmasundara: The idea is that the suit and the coat are practical for the businessman, and the...



Prabhupāda: Business, that is socially required. If you, of course... In our Bengali it is called jana bahune pohite dakhane. If a man is known a brāhmaṇa, he doesn't require to show his sacred thread. Just like our Kṛṣṇa conscious men, gradually people are understanding our philosophy, so even if we go in this dress, they honor us. But for ordinary things, if you go in this dress, it will not attract them.



Śyāmasundara: One thing that puzzles me is if what is practical for one person is not practical for another person, then what is the criterion of truth? Is truth relative? This is true for me but it is not true for you. This isn't true for him but it is...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. There are relative truths. But for the Absolute Truth... There is Absolute Truth and relative truth. So first of all we have to see in which you are interested*-Absolute Truth or relative truth. That is to be understood. There are two kinds of truth.



Śyāmasundara: So if the result of the businessman is to make some money for his use, and our purpose of doing business is also to make some money for another use, so then it is a question of what the use, what is the practical...



Prabhupāda: As far as pushing on your Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, just like constructing this big building, you require some money. So if you go somewhere to take that money, you must please him; otherwise you cannot get money. But his pleasing that man is not the ultimate goal. Ultimate goal is to please Kṛṣṇa. But for pleasing Kṛṣṇa, this is a temporary method I have accepted, just to please Him.



Śyāmasundara: What about the businessman who goes to please that man for his...



*Prabhupāda: When a businessman goes to please somebody, he wants the money for himself. That is the difference. But when we go to please somebody, to get some money, our ultimate aim is to please Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth. Therefore the means adopted, even if it is relative truth, that becomes Absolute Truth. The end justifies the means. Because the means is adopted, just like Kṛṣṇa advises Arjuna, "Just go and tell Droṇācārya that his son is dead," although his son was not dead. So this is not truth. But because by that action Kṛṣṇa will be pleased*-Kṛṣṇa is Absolute Truth-therefore even that lying is also absolute.



Śyāmasundara: So practicality has to be judged on the result, what is the result of that action?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is that the end justifies the means. Means is not very important. What is the end, we have to see.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, James uses the example of God. Whether God exists depends on the extent to which a belief in God affects my life. In other words if it is practical, if it makes me feel happy, if I get some courage and strength by believing in God, then God is true, then God does exist.



Prabhupāda: So one may not feel like that, that means that God does not exist? Suppose one man does not feel very good talking about God. That means God is null and void?



Śyāmasundara: According to James's philosophy...



Prabhupāda: That means he is an atheist. He's a godless.



Śyāmasundara: He considers himself to be a religious man.



Prabhupāda: Considers... He has no idea of God. What kind of a religious man he is? We say he is a nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: In other words, truth is relative, according to him.



Prabhupāda: No. Truth is not relative. Your position is relative. So long you are under the clutches of māyā, your understanding of God is relative. God is not relative. God is absolute. You cannot understand God. Your position is relative. Just like, I will give you a practical example: a man is deaf and he is calling wife, "Mrs. such and such, such and such." She is replying, "Yes. I am coming." But he himself is deaf. He cannot hear the wife is replying. So he is accusing his wife, "Mrs. such and such is very deaf; she cannot hear." She is hearing; she is replying. This rascal cannot hear; *therefore she becomes deaf. This is an example. So I cannot understand what is God*-therefore there is no God. This is the most rascal position. I cannot see at night the sun-therefore there is no sun. He does not understand that "I am in darkness at night, so there is no possibility of my seeing." He has no such knowledge. But he concludes there is not sun. That is rascaldom.



Śyāmasundara: I think he would say that a belief in God would...



Prabhupāda: It is not belief. You believe or not believe, God is there.



Śyāmasundara: But he would say that...



Prabhupāda: And that word is another nonsense expression. You believe in God, you don't believe, what does it matter for God?



Śyāmasundara: But I think he would say that if everyone who believes in God gets some strength, some happiness, some courage, so that it would benefit everyone to believe in God...



Prabhupāda: But he does not get any strength by it, does it mean God is not there?



Śyāmasundara: But doesn't everyone derive strength?



Prabhupāda: No. Somebody, he thinks, "By drinking I get strength." There are many men in Bowery Street in your country. So, just like, why these drunkards? I'll give you a practical example. When long ago when Mahatma Gandhi came in Calcutta, so some of the Gauḍīya Math men went to invite him, "Mahatma Gandhi, please come to our temple." At that time charka was very prominent.



Śyāmasundara: What is that?



Prabhupāda: Charka, the, what is called? Spinning wheel.



Śyāmasundara: Spinning wheel.



*Prabhupāda: Spinning wheel, yes. Gandhi was himself devoting, just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he thought that you spin. So he first of all inquired whether in your temple you spin this charka. They replied, "No, sir. We worship Kṛṣṇa, God, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is our regular routine work." Gandhi replied, "Oh, then I am not going to your temple. My charka is my God." He said that. And actually, for him, charka was God in this sense: by introducing charka the whole Manchester closed. You see? And the British Empire half broken, simply by killing this Manchester industry. So many mills they closed. But later on the, (laughs) Manchester came to Ahmedabad. Now when we are taking supplies from Manchester, we are getting cloth, one rupee 8 annas per pair, now we have to pay twenty*-five rupees per pair.



Śyāmasundara: For dhotīs?



*Prabhupāda: Dhotīs, yes. In our childhood we have seen that Manchester made cloth, first class. One dhotī was selling (indistinct), that was selling like hotcake, imported by Rally Brothers. Very nice cloth-one rupee 8 annas per pair, two, two pieces. But the same dhotī you have to purchase at twenty-five. So the consumer's money is now going to Ahmedabad. You may say your money is saved in your country, but my pocket is empty. (laughs) It is saved in my country, that's all right*-in the state bank. That's all right. But my pocket is empty.



Śyāmasundara: And Mafatlal's pocket is full.



Prabhupāda: That's all. This is going on.



Śyāmasundara: He says that a person's philosophical attitude will depend upon the individual's personality. Different personalities naturally have a different philosophy.



Prabhupāda: Philosophy without any fact is mental speculation. What is the value of such philosophy? He has already practical value. According to person, your mentality, your personality may not agree with me. Then you have got different philosophy. And what is the practical use?



Devotee: This seems to have a similarity to the divisions of faith according to the three guṇas.



Prabhupāda: No. The philosophy is not faith. Faith is a different thing, and fact is different thing. Philosophy must be on the fact, not on faith. Faith may be blind faith. That is different thing.



Śyāmasundara: So he says we seek a universe which is appropriate to our predispositions. If we have a certain inclination we automatically seek to piece together the universe according to our, the way we see things, our perspective.



Prabhupāda: What is that, seeing?



Śyāmasundara: So that people who think differently about things, who have different inclinations and abilities, different perspectives, they will automatically see the world or the universe in a different manner.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: They will have different philosophies.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But that does not prove the fact. Different men have got different ideas of peace, that does not mean that is peace. Peace is a different thing. Peace is that which applies to everyone. That is peace. Not that because I think by drinking I shall be peaceful, therefore drinking is peace. No. And somebody thinks, "By doing this thing, I'll feel peaceful." No. There must be a standard of peace which will be applicable to everyone. That is real peace. We are talking of that peace.



Śyāmasundara: He sees that there are two basic or fundamental philosophical temperaments. The one he calls tendermindedness, which is exemplified by the rationalist, the idealist, the optimist, the religionist, and the dogmatist; and toughmindedness, or the empiricist, the materialist, the pessimist, the irreligious, the fatalist and the skeptic. He says that philosophers are of two types: tender minded and tough minded.



*Prabhupāda: So this depends upon one's education. If one is educated, in one way he may become tender, and another man, if he is educated in a different way, he may be hard. But our proposition is that originally the soul is good. This tenderness and hardness, they are developed later on. But they are not standard. When you come to the platform of soul, there everything is good. In that platform, either tenderness or hardness, both of them are in the absolute. So our philosophy is that, as we understand from Bhagavad-gītā, that every living entity is part and parcel of God. So God is good, pavitra. Just like Arjuna accepts, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram [Bg. 10.12]. Pavitra means pure. But because we are part and parcel of God, therefore we are pure. The impurities are acquired by our contamination with this material world. So either you become tender or hard*-that is impurity of this material world. So we don't give any credit to any person, either he is tender or hard. These are all material qualifications. When he is spiritually placed, then we give him, that he is now liberated, either from tenderness or from hardness. These are all material qualifications. One is hard, one is tender. So that is our material quality. Just like a disease. One is suffering from headache, one is suffering from indigestion, or one is suffering from fever. So one who is suffering from headache, he is thinking, "Instead of having a headache, if I would have suffered from indigestion it was better." You see? And the man who is suffering from indigestion, passing stool every three minutes, he is thinking that "If I would have suffered from headache instead of this nasty disease, I would have been all right." So these rascaldom, either tenderness or something, it is the same thing. It is our mental concoction that he thinks this is a better disease. It is not better. It is bad. Therefore it is explained by Caitanya-caritāmṛta, 'dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali saman, ei bhalo ei manda sab more ghara. 'Dvaite: when you are contaminated, diseased... I will give you one... I heard from one of my medical practitioners friend. So he told me that when he was a student in Calcutta there was a big professor, Colonel Megha, English professor. He was lecturing, and with in talking he said that in our country that seventy-eight percent of the students are infected with syphilis. Yes. So the doctor said as soon as he heard from Professor Megha, he said, "Horrible." And the doctor said, "Why you are saying horrible? In your country ninety-nine percent are suffering from malaria. So as a doctor you should take the disease. Why do you think that this is a horrible and this is not horrible? You are thinking that malaria is not horrible; *syphilis is horrible. But in our country we think syphilis is not horrible and malaria is horrible. So as a medical practitioner you should consider the disease, not the aftereffects. Aftereffects of all diseases is suffering, either it is malaria or it is syphilis." So we should be concerned that this soul, pure soul, is affected by these sattva, rajas, tamaguṇa, material modes of nature, and he is suffering. So he should be given relief from this suffering, not that because one is contaminated by this sattva*-guṇa, one is a brāhmaṇa, very nice brāhmaṇa, therefore that is, from a material point of view, the brāhmaṇa is better than a śūdra. But from the spiritual platform, either a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra, they are contaminated by this material nature, so they are suffering. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brāhmaṇa is thinking, "Oh, I am so pure. I am learned." So that is, thinking "I am so, I am so, I am so..." he is not thinking that he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or God. Similarly, others are also thinking. So the fact is, so long as one is affected by these material modes of nature, his position is the same.



Śyāmasundara: William James's position is..., he calls himself a radical empiricist. He says that the unity of the universe as a neat set of interconnected relations in an absolute. It is false, because...



Prabhupāda: Absolute? False?



Śyāmasundara: No. He says that a unified pattern of things, that the universe as a unified scheme, neat pattern of things, is false because our direct experience informs us of a discontinuity of facts. Our direct experiences sees discontinuity of facts, so we must conclude that the universe is comprised of facts which are not perfect in unity.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are seeing the universe by your imperfect eyes. So it is your imperfectness. Just like you are seeing the sun planet just like a disc, but it is not a disc. But because you cannot see perfectly, you are thinking like that. So your conception of the universe is imperfect, because you are imperfect. Otherwise, everything is complete. Just like *Īśopaniṣad*, pūrṇam idam [*Īśopaniṣad*, Invocation]. It is complete. That is the first verse of the *Īśopaniṣad*. But because you are imperfect, you are seeing the universe and everything as imperfect. The universe, because it is made by God, it cannot be imperfect. God is perfect, and anything created by God is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that...



*Prabhupāda: Because you do not see through the eyes of God*-you want to see through your imperfect eyes-therefore you consider this universe as imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is, the exact quote is, "That order is gradually one and always in the making." In other words, the universe is evolving toward ultimate unification, which is never fully achieved.



Prabhupāda: That means he has no knowledge, poor fund of knowledge. The universe is complete, but he is not complete. The same example: The deaf husband is considering the wife is deaf, because he cannot hear the response given by the wife. So because he has got imperfect knowledge, he has no knowledge of God, he has no knowledge that the... God has created this universe, and because it is created by the perfect being, it is also perfect.



Śyāmasundara: Because his vision of a unified universe is evolving, then he ascribes that the universe itself is false...



Prabhupāda: No. The universe is not evolving. It is perfect since it was created. But because we have no perfect knowledge, you are thinking it is evolving.



Śyāmasundara: Because he... Because my observations of the universe are evolving toward a unity. This is his criterion for truth, that only that which I can perceive is true, or which I can experience.



Prabhupāda: Yes. What you can perceive, that may be wrong thing also, because you are not perfect. But because you have got a poor fund of knowledge, therefore you are thinking that imperfect thing it is also perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that... This is a quote...



Prabhupāda: Just like in the śāstras it is stated that the human beings, they are being controlled by the modes of passion, so they love to work very hard. And that hard working, they think it is happiness. Actually, everyone is working hard day and night, and because he is getting some money in return, he is thinking that "I am becoming happier." In exchange of a little money he is accepting that hard working is very good. But śāstra says that this hard working for some sense gratification is being done by the hogs and dogs. They are also working hard, and getting some remuneration for food and sense enjoyment. So that business is there already. So does it mean that a human being also works so hard, as a hog, simply to get his food and sense gratification? Suppose a big builder is working hard and getting money. But what will be the result of his work? A little food and sense gratification. A beggar also, he's getting the little food and sense gratification. Then why he's happy working so hard? What is the use? That sense, it does not come to him. He thinks, "I am happy. I am happier than the beggar because I have got so much money, I have got such a big building." But what is in relation to you? You are eating the same four capatis and have your sex life with your wife, that's all. What is the better advantage you are getting than the hog and poor man? This is because he is in the modes of passion, he is thinking, "I am happier than him." This is called māyā, or illusion.



Śyāmasundara: James says that the world...



*Prabhupāda: Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt, śāstra says. This viṣayasu, eating, sleeping, mating and defending-this is called viṣayasu-that is available in every life. A dog is also enjoying, the hog is also enjoying, a poor man is also enjoying, or a rich man is also enjoying. If a rich man has no hunger, then even very palatable dishes will not be very pleasing to him. But a poor man, if he has got hunger, even a rough foodstuff without any ghee or without any..., he eats like anything, like nectar. So the happiness of this viṣaya-eating, sleeping, mating and defending*-they are equal everywhere. That does not mean that a rich man is enjoying eating more than a poor man. No. When one eats if one is hungry, the enjoyment is the same. There is no difference. Similarly the hog eats the stool with great eagerness. You pass stool, and the hog is waiting. As soon as you stand up, two or three hogs, "ruh, ruh, ruh," like this. (laughter) You see? So the happiness of eating stool and the happiness of eating halavā are the same. You see? It depends on the different tongues. Therefore a man, a drunkard, he, by his drinking liquor, it is tasting so nice. But at least for me, if you give me drop of liquor, it is so pungent, because I tasted rectified spirit when I was in medical practice, you see. It is so pungent, so... Just like burns the tongue. You see? So one man's food is another man's poison. That is all. But actually, in this material world this standard of happiness is equal. It is simply, this is called māyā, that he does not know that he is working so hard, but he is thinking that "I am becoming happy."



Śyāmasundara: From the graphs from Darwin and the evolutionists, there is an idea that...



Prabhupāda: Sometimes we see by some rich men in your country and here also, they will run (indistinct). First of all he becomes fatty by eating more. Then again he hasn't got to do in the office, anything, so he runs four miles, you see. He does not think this is labor; this is enjoyment. Similarly, the māyā, under the influence of māyā, everyone is working very hard, but he is thinking "I am enjoying."



Śyāmasundara: There is this idea in James's philosophy and others' also, since Darwin...



Prabhupāda: Sitting in this portion... [break] If I say "This is my portion," and if you are sitting in another portion and you say this is your portion, so by chance if I step in your portion you become angry, or you step in my portion... We forget that we have come here temporarily to sit down. Why shall I demark like this, "This is my portion," "This is my portion"? So the system is already there, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. The *Īśopaniṣad* says that whatever is allotted to you, you may be satisfied with that. But they are not satisfied in that way. I am trying to encroach upon your, I mean to say, possession, you are trying to encroach upon my possession. Or we have actually all forgotten that we are all sons of God. This planet is given to us to live, so let us produce according to the methods and eat and live peacefully and remember God. That we are not doing. The Americans, they have got... What is the area of your land?



Śyāmasundara: I don't know.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. I can measure it is about 3000 miles by 3000 miles. And whereas India is 1000 miles. What is the area of India? Maybe 1000 miles by 800 miles, whereas in America 3000 miles by 3000 miles. And the population is one quarter of India's. The land is four times than India, but the population is one quarter of India. So they can produce enough. Actually they are producing enough. And that can be distributed to the portion where the food is a scarcity. And that is arrangement of God. The land and the water given by God is sufficient for the whole population. Not only human beings*-all beasts, birds... Sufficient food. But we are, I mean to say, mismanaging the whole thing. Therefore we find that India is poverty-stricken and America is throwing grains in the water. So actually, if we take the perfection made by God, that "This planet belongs to us, we human beings, and it is God's property, so let us live peacefully..." But..., but no. That is māyā. So therefore the whole solution of the problem is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If people will understand that "We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa's. This land belongs to Kṛṣṇa, so let us enjoy our father's property without fighting..." That they will not do. And they will accuse that God has made incomplete. That is māyā. Otherwise from God's side everything is complete.



pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

[Iso Invocation]



Śyāmasundara: His very quotation in this regard is, "The world is a pluralism of which the unity is not fully experienced as yet. The universe..."



*Prabhupāda: That they have to understand through Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a fact. Not as yet. Because they do not know the verse in the Bhagavad*-gītā that "You are not proprietor." Neither you are Chinese, neither you are Americans. This they have to know. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, nāhaṁ vipra na ca narapati. He does not identify Himself with this tabernacle identifications, with this body.



Śyāmasundara: So where we differ from James is that we say that the truth exists, and it is revealed to a person...



Prabhupāda: As he becomes...



Śyāmasundara: ...as he experiences it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Or as he becomes wiser.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: He is born fool. Either Mr. James or Mr. something, they are all born fools.



Śyāmasundara: Whereas he says that "The truth develops as I experience it."



Prabhupāda: Yes. But that experience you have to take from a man who is experienced. Just like he wants to philosophize, he is trying to distribute his experience. But he does not like to take others' experience. That is the defect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the universe continually grows in quantity by new experiences that graft themselves upon the older mass.



Prabhupāda: This older mass, that we (indistinct) should (indistinct). Therefore our policy is that we should gather experience from a person who is already experienced.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that that person's experience will be transcended by another person's experience.



Prabhupāda: No. We will meet a person whose experience cannot be transcended, cannot be surpassed. We take experience from him. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can become wiser than Kṛṣṇa; therefore we take directly, experience from Kṛṣṇa. That is our standard. We don't accept any experience from a secondary man.



Śyāmasundara: So perhaps due to Darwin, these men, they don't think that truth exists independently of man's experience. They think that truth is developing as man evolves.



*Prabhupāda: No. Because he is imperfect, he does not know what is truth. The same experience: because he cannot hear, other who is hearing is answering and he cannot hear him, so he thinks that he is dumb, deaf. Ātmavan manyate jagat. The difficulty is that everyone thinks others on his own standard. If a fool, he thinks others fool. So that is not the fact. We have to take experience from a person whose experience nobody can surpass. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni vartamānāni bhaviṣyāni [Bg. 7.26]. He says that "I know past, present, future, everything." So who knows past, present, future, everything? Therefore we have to take experience from Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa that "You taught this philosophy to the sun*-god-how I am to believe this?" Because Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna thought that "Kṛṣṇa is my friend, my cousin-brother. He is of my age. How is that I can believe that He taught this philosophy to the sun-god." This was not for Arjuna. This question was raised for us. So Kṛṣṇa replied that "Both you and Me were present. We took many times appearances. But you have forgotten. I do not forget." That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, ordinary living entity and God.



*Śyāmasundara: So his definition of reality*-reality equals pure experience. He says that reality equals pure...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we should go to the perfect experienced personality; then we can know reality. From his definition it is concluded that we must go to the perfect experienced person and understand what is reality. That is our process.



Śyāmasundara: The realized person.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then we can know what is reality. I cannot know what is reality, but if I go to the perfect experienced personality, he can tell me what is reality.



Viśāla: In the *Teachings of Lord Caitanya*, Your Divine Grace, it mentions that there are three processes: the transcendental process, the speculative philosophical process, and the materialistic process. The devotees go to the transcendental process to get perfect knowledge.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Viśāla: Parampara.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says that 40,000,000..., "Thousands of years before, I spoke this philosophy to Vivasvān"*-we accept it. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is an aspect of chance in nature.



Prabhupāda: Nature means always changing.



Śyāmasundara: Chance.



Prabhupāda: What?



Śyāmasundara: Chance. Accident. That there is an aspect of accident.



Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't accept that. If there would have been accident, so many planets are rotating in, and so forth... There is no collision. There is no accident. But in your motorcar there is so many accidents, and people are dying.



Śyāmasundara: He sees in our human conduct that we have the choice to make certain decisions, certain...



*Prabhupāda: Decision means because you are imperfect, human beings are imperfect, so their machine, these motorcars, there are so many accidents, so many killing. But because God is so perfect, although all the planets are rotating in their speed, just like this earth is rotating... What is the speed? At least in twenty*-four hours it is completing 25,000 miles. That means its speed is about 1000 miles at least. And similarly, other planets are also moving, similarly. And the sun planet is moving at 16,000 miles per minute or second, calculated. But all these planets are moving in this way, so much speed, but they are not colliding. The perfect arrangement is there, and they are floating. How it is possible? This is accidental? Do you think this is accidental?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says it like this, that there are alternative courses of action. For every possibility there are several other possibilities. So that for instance a man can make a decision, a choice, to take different, alternative way. So he says that nature works in that way also.



Prabhupāda: No. Nature is not working that way. Nature is working very perfectly. We can see. Just after... So perfect that the astronomers, they are calculating that on such and such date there will be an eclipse, and it will be seen in India; it will not be seen in Europe; and exactly at this time the eclipse will begin. So how they are calculating unless there is a rigid law? How it is possible? They are calculating mathematically. The general matter that two plus two is always four, not that by accident it becomes five. That is not possible. So the nature's law is working in that way. Otherwise how one year before you can calculate this solar eclipse and lunar eclipse so rightly? And they can say that from this country it will be seen, and from this country it will be not seen. That means the position of the sun, moon and everything, of the latitude and longitude, everything is so nicely done that you can make calculations very perfectly. How you can say accident? There is no accident.



*Devānanda: In the Bhagavad*-gītā even the human behavior is predicted like that. Through the later chapters it is described how people will act in different modes of nature, and they all behave that way.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like in Bhāgavata it is calculated that lāvaṇyaṁ keśa*-dhāraṇam. In the Kali-yuga, in this age, people will think by keeping their long hair he has become beautiful. Now, then, see all the hippies. That is written in the Bhāgavatam in India. How it is happening in Europe? Now the Indians also are imitating. So five thousand years before, this was written, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam.



Śyāmasundara: So would even accidents between two automobiles, that would not really be an accident?



Prabhupāda: Because it is imperfect, therefore there is an accident.



Śyāmasundara: Oh! It is an accident?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: That is not determined by any...



Prabhupāda: No.



Bhavānanda: That's not determined even by karma?



Prabhupāda: What?



Bhavānanda: It is not determined even by karma?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. In higher sense it is also like that. That means from God's eyes even the so*-called accident is also predestined.



Devānanda: Nothing can be outside of the law of God.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Śyāmasundara: His definition of the world is that it is the stuff of pure experience*-that matter, mind, everything is made up of experience.



Prabhupāda: Whose experience? Your experience?



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't say whose experience. Just experience.



Prabhupāda: What does it mean? Experience, there are different types of experience. Your experience is different from my experience. Then we have to calculate whose experience.



Śyāmasundara: He says the substance called experience sometimes manifests in mind, sometimes manifests as matter. So, for instance, the substance of these flowers is made up of the experience gathered from previous flowers.



Prabhupāda: Whose experience? I am asking whose experience? It is not your experience, so nice flowers. You have not made it.



Śyāmasundara: Presumably the flower's experience.



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. The flower's experience. (laughs) Just see.



Śyāmasundara: He just calls this pure experience. He doesn't say whose experience.



Prabhupāda: That means his knowledge is not perfect. He is speculating, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: Isn't everything we see a product of experience?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Whose experience? That is my question.



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't say, so...



Prabhupāda: He does not know.



Śyāmasundara: Whose experience.



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's experience. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna*-bala-kriyā ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. This is the Vedic version. The Supreme is so much equipped with different kinds of energies. That energy means experience. You can apply your energy if you have got experience. You can apply your energy of drawing a figure, providing you have got experience.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Similarly, all this display of this universe or anything creation, cosmic manifestations, this is designed by the Supreme, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva. Multi-energies. Just like this flower. We have got experience that if you paint a flower, it requires so much experience to handle the brush and the colors. So similarly, this is certainly proof of experience, but His energy is acting so nicely, we see that the flower is coming automatically. And the same example I have given so many times, that nowadays in electronics, just like this, so many mechanical arrangement is within there. But I say "putt,"*-I push on this one button. One who does not know, he sees, "Oh, this is moving so wonderfully." No. There is experience.



Śyāmasundara: The Darwinists, for instance, would say that this flower through time had the experience that if it produced a nice odor, more bees would come to pollinate it and continue the species. So that the experience is passed on in the gene or the seed of the flower, so...



Prabhupāda: Whose experience passed?



Śyāmasundara: The flower's experience.



Prabhupāda: The flower has got experience?



Śyāmasundara: Don't all living things have experience?



*Prabhupāda: No. All the living things are experienced, but ultimately they are put into certain condition by the experience of the Supreme. And the flavor of the flower is stated in Bhagavad*-gītā: puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. There are many flowers, but all of them have no flavor. It must be the arrangement of somebody else who has given flavor to some flowers. He has given somebody beauty and somebody not. Otherwise who will deny beauty? If it had been done by his own experience, then everyone would have been beautiful or every flower would have given flavor. Where is that experience? That means either you say flower's experience or your experience, it is conducted by another, superior experience. What is that?



Devānanda: Would another conception be that Kṛṣṇa is not only the experienced since time immemorial but He is also the experiencer now? He, being the prime enjoyer, enjoyment means experience. He knows nothing but enjoying, so all His experience is enjoying. All His enjoying is His experience. That experience...



Prabhupāda: That means that the sum and substance, that is supremely experienced, past, present and future. Unless He is supremely experienced, how He can know future? Past and present..., past, present and future for us, because of the time, eternal time... I am a fragmental production of this time; therefore there is a beginning of my appearance, date. And when I disappear, there is a date of my disappearance. And within this date of appearance and disappearance, there is past, present and future. So my past, present and future and an ant's past, present and future and Brahmā's past, present... They are all different.



*Śyāmasundara: Your experience after you, your body finishes, your experience is passed on, so that everything that we see*-doors, walls, bodies, minds-everything is made up of previous experience. So and so learned how to build a door this way, and it was passed on...



Prabhupāda: That previous experience of Kṛṣṇa. Just like I was sometimes thinking of Africa, I think. They have made their houses almost like India. I have see that this is the Indian style. I have told you that this is Indian style. So how the Africans got my Indian's experience or the Indian got the African experience? So actually, the Indians did not take experience from Africans, nor the Africans took the experience from the Indians. It is experience of the Supersoul.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. So just like a man...



Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: [Bg. 15.15] "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca, "I am giving experience." So when the Africans are constructing a house or cottage like the Indians, that is not that the Africans came to India and learned this experience. Or the Indians are constructing a cottage just like the Africans, that does not mean that... Several times I have told you that so far as the pigeon is concerned, the sparrow, I mean to say, either American or Indian, they are of the same size and doing the same thing.



Śyāmasundara: I think that we have discussed this before under the categories of acquired knowledge and intuitive knowledge, that some knowledge is acquired, experienced; some knowledge is intuitive.



Prabhupāda: So the pigeons or the sparrows or the doves are doing the same thing in India as in America. It does not mean these pigeons have gone to America from India.



Śyāmasundara: So it's intuitive.



Prabhupāda: But because they are Kṛṣṇa's... As Paramātmā is there, within the heart of the pigeon in India and America, they are acting similarly. Therefore original experience comes from God. And He says that "I know everything past, present, and future." That is real experience.



Śyāmasundara: So his definition of reality is pure experience, or...



Prabhupāda: He cannot give any definition of reality because he has not experienced. He has not perfectly experienced, so how he can give the definition of reality? What definition he is giving, that is not reality. He has no experience. He is developing experience. So how he can give a definition of reality?



Śyāmasundara: Actually, he is defining the process.



Prabhupāda: What is that process?



Śyāmasundara: The process is to understand reality, but he is not describing reality.



Prabhupāda: He says that reality?



Śyāmasundara: He says that reality is the stream of consciousness or the flux of life.



Prabhupāda: A jugglery of words, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: One's consciousness, as it develops more and more conscious, then he becomes more and more aware of reality.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. But what is the guarantee that he'll develop consciousness fully?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. What if a man develops into a madman? Does that make him more aware of reality?



Prabhupāda: That definition we can give him. When a man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is contacted with reality.



Devānanda: It's only when a man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious or actually reaches the reality, then he can be sure that the process does lead to the reality. He is speculating that this process will lead to the reality, but he doesn't know it for sure, because it has not actually brought him to the point of reaching the reality.



*Prabhupāda: Of course, to reach the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform the process is not man*-made.



Śyāmasundara: No.



*Prabhupāda: The process is also God*-made. Just like Kṛṣṇa said that, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the process. This is not man-made; *this is God*-made. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is God-made. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā mām eva ye prapadyante [Bg. 7.14]. This is God-made. So to come to Kṛṣṇa conscious platform also, you have to follow the God-made method, not your method. You cannot give any definition.



Śyāmasundara: But he has a philosophy of religion. And he says that the believer in God has a greater chance than the doubter to discover truth and to gain...



Prabhupāda: That... Vinaśyati. Those who are doubtful, they vinaśyati; they are finished.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that at least the believer has a greater chance to gain practical advantages by his belief, whereas the doubter doesn't stand any chance to gain...



Prabhupāda: That is good. That is good. Then whether he is a believer or a doubter?



Śyāmasundara: He is a believer, but the extent of his belief we'll discuss in a few moments. He says that the one who disbelieves faces the added risk of losing any chance of discovering the truth.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So it is better to believe, even though one doesn't know for sure. It is better to believe because it gives one more chance of discovering the truth. He says that we have the right to believe in God, even in the absence of absolute proof. Even though there is no absolute proof, he says, of the existence of God, still we have the right to believe in God because this helps us to get closer to the truth. It gives us a better chance.



Prabhupāda: That means he accepts God is truth and that He's existing. Does he say like that or not?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says there is no absolute proof, but...



Prabhupāda: But that is proof.



Śyāmasundara: ...by my belief I get more...



Prabhupāda: That he is saying, that if somebody believes, he has got greater chance. Unless the fact is there, simply by believing, how there is chance?



Śyāmasundara: He says that by this belief I get some strength, some happiness, some practical advantage; therefore I have the right to believe, because I get a practical benefit.



Prabhupāda: So practical benefit... Suppose you are getting some warmth, so you believe there must be some fire. So I believe. Unless there is fire, how there is warmth?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So the belief itself is the proof.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one thing about James as distinct from many other philosophers is that he felt the personal experience of God.



Prabhupāda: Everyone has got personal experience of God.



Devānanda: But he recognized it as such.



Prabhupāda: Somebody He reveals; *sometimes he does not believe*-He hides. Everyone has got. Everyone. A human being, every human being has got.



Devānanda: That's true. The only experience...



*Prabhupāda: No, no. The atheists, simply artificially they cover. Naturally he has belief. Naturally he has belief. Even in this primitive stage, as soon as there is something wonderful, natural phenomenon, they offer respects, the primitive man. The man in the jungle, as soon as he sees a big ocean, he offers his respects. As soon as he sees a big mountain, he offers his respects. As soon as there is a thunderbolt... This is called realization of the śakti. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śakti. So this is śakta stage, realization of God by seeing something wonderful. That is śakta stage. Then after this state, śakta, saurīyam. Śakta stage, worshiping the energy of God*-everything is energy; *then śaktyopāsanam, then śaktasaurīyam, then suryopāsanam, worshiping the sun, because it is the reservoir of all energies according to the material world. Śakta, saurīya then gāṇapatya. The gāṇapatya means that is humanitarian. That energy is distributed*-pantheism, humanitarian. Śakta, sauriyam, gāṇapatya, then śaiva, you go on. Then Vaiṣṇava. Impersonal then personalist.



Śyāmasundara: There is also the demigods in charge of those different departments? Different demigods...



Prabhupāda: That is gāṇapatya. Gaṇapati, the worshiper of Gaṇeśa. Gāṇapatya.



Śyāmasundara: Śakti.



*Prabhupāda: Śakti, Sūrya, Gaṇapati, Śiva, and then Viṣṇu*-pañcopāsanam. This is called pañcopāsanam.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind is not dependent upon the existence of the body; therefore the mind may survive the body...



*Prabhupāda: That is fact. That, that we say. The gross body, when it is finished, the subtle body*-mind, intelligence, ego-remains. That carries me to another gross body. Just like the example is, there is a flavor. You cannot see, but it is carried by the air. If it is coming from the rose garden, you say, "Oh, very nice flavor." You cannot see it, but it is carried by the subtle air. Similarly, I, the spirit soul, when I give up this gross body, then I am carried. I have got body still. That is subtle body-mind, intelligence, and ego. And according to my desire, that subtle body grows into another gross body.



Śyāmasundara: So the mind and the intelligence, they are not material? That means...



Prabhupāda: Material. Subtle.



Śyāmasundara: But they don't die? They die also? The mind...



Prabhupāda: No. Dies and it disappears. Disappear... When you are liberated, then you have no more material mind.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. But you carry your material mind throughout all of your lifetimes.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So long as you are not liberated.



Śyāmasundara: The same mind.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The same mind.



Śyāmasundara: So the mind I have now I have always had.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: But the body I have now...



Prabhupāda: The body changes. This is also material; that is material. But the subtle material accompanies me, unless I am liberated.



Śyāmasundara: So the subtle material is capable of longer life. Very long life.



Devānanda: It is acquiring saṁskāras as it goes from body to body, developing new bodies it acquires new saṁskāras and carrying...



Śyāmasundara: The mind doesn't deteriorate or get old.



*Prabhupāda: Changing, that is a mind's business. Changing. Saṅkalpa, vikalpa*-accepting and rejecting.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. So the mind I have now, the mind I have now...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...I may not have had in the past.



Prabhupāda: No. No. Why not? The same mind?



Śyāmasundara: Same mind.



Prabhupāda: Rejecting these circumstances, accepting another circumstances.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, the function is the same, but the contents may be different.



Prabhupāda: Same thing. Just like you are sitting here. You can, by the dictation of the mind, you can go somewhere else. You can immediately go to your American home. The mind will carry you.



Śyāmasundara: He had a vague idea of Brahman realization, by saying that the consciousness...



Prabhupāda: Everything is vague idea.



Śyāmasundara: The consciousness eventually enters into the, what he called the mother sea.



Prabhupāda: What?



Śyāmasundara: The mother sea.



Prabhupāda: Mother sea?



Śyāmasundara: The mother ocean.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Śyāmasundara: He says that the consciousness eventually enters into the mother ocean. That is as far as he could speculate.



Devānanda: Let the bubbles go on popping in the ocean. The bubble bursting into the ocean is the mother sea.



Prabhupāda: Merges into the...



Śyāmasundara: Merges into the...



Prabhupāda: ...supreme consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Something like that. He says that experience and not philosophy or theology should form the basis of religious life; that experience should be our religious life and not just philosophy, but actual applied practice.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Philosophy will give us the idea of the goal, and our practical application is to give us the right path.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the life of religion is mankind's most important function.



Prabhupāda: That's nice. We say also, without religion a living entity is no better than an animal. So that is very important.



Śyāmasundara: And he says that the evidence for God's existence is found primarily in one's personal inner experience. One has an intuitive experience that God exists.



Prabhupāda: God exists. Just like we say always that God is supposed to be the supreme father. So as I know, even though I did not see my father, but still I know that I had father, or I have father. So if God is the supreme father, He must be there.



Śyāmasundara: So presumably you could not convince someone through logic or...



Prabhupāda: This is logic. This is logic.



Śyāmasundara: ...like that, that God exists, unless he has a personal inner experience that God exists.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very simple logic. Because I am born of my father, my father is born of his father, his father is born of his father, go on, go on, and find out the supreme father. After all, there must have been a beginning of all the fathers. So how can I deny the supreme father?



Śyāmasundara: Unless I have the experience, inner experience of that...



*Prabhupāda: This is inner experience. It is very simple. Because my father is, therefore I am born of him. He is born of his father, he is born of his father. Go on, that's it. That is, our śāstra says, ultimately you will come to Brahmā, the father of this universe. The Brahmā is also born of Nārāyaṇa, how you say, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and the Garbhodakaśāyī, wherefrom He comes? Mahā*-Viṣṇu, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Wherefrom Mahā-Viṣṇu comes? From Saṅkarṣaṇa. Wherefrom Saṅkarṣaṇa comes? From Nārāyaṇa. Wherefrom Nārāyaṇa comes? He comes from Baladeva. Wherefrom does Baladeva comes? Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the Brahma-saṁhitā says,



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



He is the original cause of all causes.



Śyāmasundara: He makes a few comments about religion. He says that "The religious experience is unique, and it enables the individual to realize that the world he perceives is part of a spiritual universe which alone gives the sensory world value, and that man's proper goal is to unite himself with that higher universe. That prayer or inner communion with the universal spirit or God is the means whereby spiritual energy flows in and produces effects, psychological or material, occurring in the phenomenal world. And that religious faith imparts a new zest to life, taking the form either of lyrical enchantment or of appeal to earnestness and heroism, and that religion contributes some assurance of safety and peace and teaches love in human relationships."



Prabhupāda: That's nice.



Śyāmasundara: He says some nice things about...



Prabhupāda: That's nice.



Śyāmasundara: But practically, the practical aspect of religion, that it imparts new zest to life, that it produces psychological and material effects, like that. But he didn't believe that God was unlimited. That was his... He believed that God was somehow limited; because there is evil, because evil exists, that God is somehow limited.



Prabhupāda: He does not know that evil does not exist independently. He does not know. In our śāstras it says that evil is the back side of God. But it is not independent of God. But either back side or front side, it is God; therefore it is absolute. I cannot neglect my back side. I cannot say that "You can beat me on my back side. Go on, kick me." That I cannot say. The back side is as important as the front side. But comparatively it is explained that evil is back side, pāpa, sin. That is back side of God.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we can cooperate with God...



Prabhupāda: That means when you are not in front side of God, you are sinful.



Devānanda: If one doesn't stand before God, he stands in darkness.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we can cooperate...



*Prabhupāda: Those who are sinful, they cannot stand in front of God. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, yeṣām anta*-gataṁ pāpam: unless one has completely uncontaminated from the reaction of pāpa,



*yeṣāṁ tv anta*-gataṁ pāpaṁ

*janānāṁ puṇya*-karmaṇām

*te dvandva*-moha-nirmuktā

*bhajante māṁ dṛḍha*-vratāḥ

[Bg. 7.28]



So one cannot be Kṛṣṇa conscious unless he is freed from all sinful reactions. But if you say, "Then I am so much sinful. How can I become Kṛṣṇa conscious? It will just take a long, long time." Yes. It will take a long, long time, but if you accept Kṛṣṇa's order immediately, just "You surrender unto Me and I will give you relief from all sinful reactions," so you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, so your sinful life immediately becomes pious life. That is a fact. What you think, Viśāla Prabhu?



Viśāla: Yes.



Prabhupāda: You are hearing?



Viśāla: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So by surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa, immediately one becomes pious. Is that not a fact?



Viśāla: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That's it.



Śyāmasundara: So that's all for him.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Now, Mr. ... (end)





DEWEY.SYA



John Dewey



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing the American philosopher John Dewey. Last time we were discussing William James, who is called a pragmatist. His philosophy deals..., believes that practice is better than theory. So this John Dewey is more or less a successor in this same line of philosophizing. He says that practical consequences are the only valid test of truth, and he says that the proof of an idea consists in its being subject to predictable results. The idea is not true unless the results of the idea are predictable.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: He is also...



Prabhupāda: That is practical. That is practical. No theoretical knowledge is necessary.



Śyāmasundara: But do the results of an idea have to be predictable?



Prabhupāda: Idea may..., if it is a concocted idea, the result cannot be ascertained. If it is fact, then the result can be predicted.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the object of inquiry or asking questions is belief; that because we want to believe something we often ask questions in order to find something to believe in. This is the nature of inquiry.



*Prabhupāda: So that is the Vedānta*-sūtra: to find out the ultimate cause of everything, the inquiries about the Absolute Truth. So these inquiries should be made to the person who knows; otherwise, what is the use of inquiring? That is the Vedic injunction. If you want to inquire about truth, then you must approach the bona fide spiritual master, guru. Guru means bona fide. But because there are so many pseudo gurus at the present moment, therefore we have to add this word "bona fide." Otherwise, guru means bona fide. One who is not bona fide, he cannot be guru. But people are misled by persons, pseudo or false gurus; therefore you have to add this word "bona fide." Otherwise there is no necessity of adding this word.



Śyāmasundara: He believes that it is the nature of inquiry itself to want to believe something, even on the small, everyday level. If I want to know who put these flowers here, because I want to believe the truth about these flowers, I ask, I inquire.



Prabhupāda: So inquiry means to know the truth. Therefore our inquiry should be made to a person who knows the truth. Otherwise the inquiry has no valid position. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is Vedic injunction. The inquiry should be genuine and the answer should come from a genuine person. Then it is all right.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the final outcome of inquiry is the fulfillment of human needs by practical action, to change the external environment.



Prabhupāda: Yes. A human being, unless he is inquisitive about the Absolute Truth, he is not considered sufficiently developed in human form. Unless this enquiry is there, about self, what I am, he is not considered sufficiently developed in his consciousness. He is still in ignorance.



Śyāmasundara: But his perspective is that by inquiring, we find out what is wrong with our environment, our external environment.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And we take practical actions to change that environment and thus fulfill human needs.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nice. That inquiry will clear everything. If the person is serious, if he inquires what is the aim of human life, then he is supposed to be intelligent. Otherwise, the animals, they cannot inquire what is the aim of life. They are simply eating, sleeping. That's all. But a human being must be inquisitive what is the value of life.



Śyāmasundara: But is our... Is the result of our inquiry to change the external environment?



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are seriously inquiring and if you know things as they are, then we can change our activities. What we are preaching? That your business is to know Kṛṣṇa. So if people actually take this movement seriously, then his mode of life will be changed. That is practically happening. All our students, they were leading a certain type of life, and since they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their whole program has been changed.



Śyāmasundara: We have come to the same question we were discussing with Marx: whether changing external environment is prerequisite to improvement or changing the consciousness is prerequisite. And you answered before, in Marx's case, that if we change the consciousness, then the environment becomes changed...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...rather than vice versa. Also, to a certain extent the other way. If we change the environment, the consciousness changes.



Prabhupāda: It is the cause and effect. One is the cause of the other; *other is the cause of the other. But actually it is the consciousness that requires to be changed-either by hearing from authority or by circumstances. There are two processes to achieve knowledge. This, in Bengali it is said, dekhe sekhara, teke sekhara. When one is actually in an awkward circumstances, that's a fact. So "This kind of way of life is not good. I have to change it." This is called tekhe sekhara. When he is actually in danger, he takes precautions of danger. But one who is intelligent, he understands by hearing that "If you do like that, then you will fall in danger." So that man is intelligent who learns by hearing from the authorities. And one who actually experienced the awkward position, and then he changes his consciousness... That is also one of the processes, but this is better. Therefore our process is to approach the bona fide teacher and learn from him everything. That is brahmacārī life. Not by practical experience. That is Vedic knowledge. The experience is already there. You simply hear and take it. Then it becomes easier. But if you expect that "First of all let me fall down into the ditch, then I shall cry..." Better man is, he takes advice, "Don't go there. You'll fall down in the ditch." Just like Kālidāsa. Kālidāsa was in the beginning he was a great fool. So he was cutting a tree, sitting on the branch. So some intelligent men was going around, "What you are doing, nonsense? You shall fall down." He didn't care, but cutting, he actually fell down. Then, "Oh, you are very intelligent! How did you say? How did you foretold?" Then they saw that he was a first-class fool. So "This boy should be taken to the king's daughter to become her husband." The girl was so intelligent that the challenge was that "Any man who will defeat me in argument, I shall marry." But she was so intelligent that nobody could defeat. So all the learned scholars, the father was asking, "Bring me an intelligent boy to marry her." So they did not find any intelligent boy. Whoever comes, he is defeated. So they decided "Now, because she is so determined to have a very nice husband, we shall make this boy her husband, this fool number one." So they took him there and instructed that "That girl..." and he will show his finger like this. "You'll show this." So he was a fool, so "All right, I'll do that." So when he was brought to the girl, the girl held up one finger and he showed two fingers, and then the all the paṇḍitas, "Oh, the answer is given him. Your girl says eka brahma, 'Brahman is one.' " And he immediately answered (indistinct), "There is no two Brahma. Brahman is one." The girl also thought, "Yes, this boy is a genius." So in this way this foolish man was made her husband, and at night, when she came to understand that he was fool number one, she kicked him and asked him, "Get out of my room." So he became very insulted: "My wife has kicked me. I am so fool. So I shall make suicide by drowning in the water." He was crying and remembering the goddess of learning, that "I am so foolish, my dear mother Sarasvatī. You did not favor me, so I shall kill myself." With great lamentation he was going to die. At that time, Sarasvatī became very kind and she appeared, "Kālidāsa, why you are drowning this way?" "My mother, this is my position. I have been insulted by my wife because I am a fool." "All right, from henceforward you shall be very learned." "Oh, but I do not know..." "No, whatever you say, it will be all right." He got this benediction from mother Sarasvatī. He came back, then he was knocking the door. The wife said, "Who are you?" He replied, hastigrati vada viśeṣaṇa (?), "Somebody who can speak very learnedly." Then whatever he was replying, he became, by the grace of Sarasvatī, he became highly learned scholarly speaking. So Kālidāsa, with these four words he wrote four books that is very famous: the Kumāra-sambhava. He began with this word hasti, and the word raghu-vaṁśa kaścid. In this way he was (indistinct), and he became very famous by this. Hasti uttarasyandeśa himalayanarna naradi rajan uddhva paro toyanidhi balaja stita pratijñān eva mana danda (?). This is the beginning of Kumāra-sambhava. Kumāra-sambhava means Lord Śiva's marriage with the daughter of Himalaya. He begins describing Himalaya: hasti uttarasyandesi himalayanamadira uttare syan deśe (?) (indistinct), in the northern side there is a king of mountains known as Himalaya. Somebody interprets it that is Arctic region. Urdhva pare yato nidhi upa rājan (?). North and east, there are two oceans*-I think this is Atlantic and Pacific-abagajan-touching-sthita pratijñāna eva mana gandha (?)-as the whole (indistinct). In this way he became... He became famous poet by the grace of Sarasvatī. In the beginning he was cutting the same branch on the tree on which he was sitting.



Śyāmasundara: So maybe there is some hope for these philosophers.



Prabhupāda: What?



Śyāmasundara: Maybe there is some hope for these...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. By the grace of the superior, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **, we sing every day. If there is blessings of higher authority, everything can be achieved. There is no doubt.



*Śyāmasundara: He puts forward five steps for solving problems. (aside conversation*-indistinct) The first step is, he says, to observe a problem and think of its nature. The second step is intellectualize the problem further: to analyze the total of difficulties. Three, you make hypothesis which constitutes possible solutions. Four, you analyze these hypotheses in the light of past experience. And five, you put these possible solutions into practice experimentally, and to ascertain the results in actual experience. So his method is that... So the idea is that problems are only solved when the possible solutions are put into practice and we experiment and get a result. Then we find solutions to problems. But not simply by theorizing, but by practice.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So our process of solving problems is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. So we take Kṛṣṇa's shelter and our problems are solved. As it is mentioned in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, He is the reservoir of all mystic power, yogeśvara. So Bhakta's business is instead of endeavoring to become a yogi, he takes shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is yogeśvara, the master of all mystic power. We take it that this is the solution of our problems. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te, instead of... I was reciting the verse from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, bālasya neha saranay vicinvam (?). So there are different kinds of methods of solving the problems. The best method is to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, and all problems are solved.



Śyāmasundara: On a social scale as well?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything. Social scale also.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is... John Dewey's idea is that...



Prabhupāda: Just like on the political scale, the Pāṇḍavas took shelter of Kṛṣṇa. There was a political problem, so it was solved in their favor, in the Pāṇḍavas favor. Political means social, political, everything.



Śyāmasundara: This Dewey's idea is that all sciences must be subservient to human needs.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So he believes in the social sciences, the educational sciences, that...



*Prabhupāda: Our educational system is tan manye adhītam uttamam. One who is a devotee and executing the nine different processes of devotional service, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam [SB 7.5.23], Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tan manye adhītam uttama, "I think he is first-class scholar. He has studied nicely everything." One who has... Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaj says also that kṛṣṇa ye bali sevalacasi (?), unless one is highly intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Bhagavad-gītā also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of experimenting for solving all problems, when he is actually wise, at that time he takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā [Bg. 7.19], he's first-class, learned scholar.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Dewey's definition of truth is that truth is the means of satisfying human needs and improving social conditions which create problems. So he sees truth as a practical tool...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...to solve social problems.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Social problems... We have mismanaged social problems because Kṛṣṇa is perfect, so whatever He has created, that is perfect. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate [Iso Invocation]. So everything is perfect, but because we want to disturb Kṛṣṇa by disobeying His order, things appear to be imperfect. (aside in Hindi) So if we remain faithful to Kṛṣṇa, there is no problem. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. So we are presenting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement as the solution of all problems. Let any intelligent man come and discuss with us, and we think that we shall be able to convince him that this is the only suggestion. (Hindi aside with guest)



Śyāmasundara: He says that truth is useful and it is public and is objective, and it benefits to society, not merely the individual.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That truth people do not know. The Bhagavad*-gītā gives us information of that truth: na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that the ultimate truth, ultimate objective is Viṣṇu. Without reference to Viṣṇu they are trying to solve the problems of the world differently. That is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: How does worship of Viṣṇu solve social problems? Just like in Calcutta there are more social problems than practically anywhere.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Viṣṇu... In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, it is said that varṇāśrama*-dharma. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. Any man who executes this varṇāśrama-dharma, he satisfies Viṣṇu. The varṇāśrama-dharma is there, and the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, and the śūdras. So according as they are prescribed, how the brāhmaṇas should live, how the kṣatriyas should live, how the..., then there is no trouble. The whole problem is solved. But they have killed the varṇāśrama-dharma. They are now all śūdras. The śūdras, how they can make solutions? Śūdras means nonintelligent persons. So what they can do? They are running on democratic government voted by the śūdras. So what these rascal śūdras will do? They require... Śūdras are meant for serving the higher sections-brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. And if the śūdras are given government... Just like we are seeing, in Africa they have been given independence, but they have not improved. The Englishman is still controlling, the Indians are still controlling. And what is the meaning of their so-called self-ruling? We have seen it, still they are poor, because they are śūdras. Śūdras have no brain. In America also, the whole America once belonged to the Red Indians. Why they could not improve? The land was there. Why these foreigners, the Europeans, came and improved? So śūdras cannot do this. They cannot make any correction. Now people are becoming śūdras by so-called education. So they cannot make any solution of the problems. If that daiva varṇāśrama again established, then the whole problem will be solved. That was the plan of my Guru Mahārāja, daiva-varṇāśrama city. Daiva varṇāśrama means that it is stated by Kṛṣṇa, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. By qualification, by the work, one should be brāhmaṇa. By qualification, by work, one should be kṣatriya. By qualification, by work, one should be vaiśya. By qualification, by work, one should be śūdra. When this order is established, that is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Then Viṣṇu, Lord, will be happy, and He will give us... He is already giving. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Actually, He's giving us all the necessities of life. But because we are now śūdras and devoid of devotional service, so prakṛti is controlling the supply. That is the difference. That is stated in connection with Pṛthu Mahārāja. Pṛthu Mahārāja, because there was not enough production, he wanted to kill the pṛthvī. So he says that "That's all right, but I am controlling because production is meant for performing yajña. These rascals, the demons, they are simply eating. They are not performing yajña. Therefore I am controlling." Saho yajña pratiṣṭhita. The whole plan is that the living entities, especially the human beings, they are meant for performing yajña. Yajña means to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu. The Bhagavad-gītā also says, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājam. You cannot give up these three things, even if you are in the renounced order of life. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. It is just like our Vaiṣṇava sannyāsīs, they are performing saṅkīrtana yajña and they are distributing Kṛṣṇa love. And to keep themselves fit, they are observing the rules and regulations and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. Following the rules and regulations and regularly chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that is tapasya. And this is the best dāna, charity. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was eulogized by Rūpa Gosvāmī: namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. "You are the most munificent incarnation because You are giving love of Godhead." So those who are distributing the idea of love of Godhead, they are the best charitably disposed man. So we, we have not given up yajña-dāna-tapaḥ. That is not to be renounced. Because a sannyāsī is renounced. Renounced means he should renounce his sense gratification, not renounce these things, yajña-dana-tapaḥ.



Śyāmasundara: So these three items are necessary to solve social...



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes!



Śyāmasundara: So everyone should try...



*Prabhupāda: For everyone. Especially if..., not everyone. Yajña for the brahmacārīs, dāna for the householders, gṛhastha, and tapa for the renounced. Tapasya. If it is not done all, at least these three classes of men should not give up their occupation, yajña*-dāna-tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā, pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you think that you are very highly elevated, still, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā is necessary for you. You should not give it up.



Śyāmasundara: Dewey says that the ethical goals are fulfillment of human needs and desires, that all morality should lead to this goal of fulfillment of human needs and desires.



*Prabhupāda: The human need is to get out of the clutches of māyā. That is the actual need. Janma*-maraṇa-mokṣaya, that is the need. But the modern society, they do not know what is needed. They are making simply plans, uselessly. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply laboring hard, they do not know the need. The real need is to get out of the clutches of repetition of birth and death in different forms. But people do not know this. They are simply concocting ideas. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-maninaḥ. Durāśayā, hopeless, or they are trying to educate something which is impossible. They are making plans to be happy in this material world. And by the United Nations it is impossible. That is not intelligence. He says... We can say in the United Nations clearly that "Your, this attempt will be failure." It is already failure. (aside in Hindi) Hariṁ vinā naiva mṛtiṁ taranti. What is the solution? You cannot make any solution of this repetition of birth and death, disease and old age. What do you mean by solution? The real problems are there. So they do not know what are the problems, how to solve them. So andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]. Some blind leaders, so-called leaders, they are leading other blind men. This is going on. They do not know what is the aim of life, how to make solutions of the problems. They do not know.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there must be a continuous probe of human beings in moral sensitivity. In other words, that people must become more and more sensitive to moral values and that there must be practical realization of a better social world.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Simply come forward and understand. Therefore we have made it society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society.



Śyāmasundara: He makes one statement. He says that "The good man is the man who, no matter how morally unworthy he has been, is moving to become something better."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: "Growth itself is the only moral end."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. The devotee, even in the beginning he is found not in order, doing something wrong, still, because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is accepted as sādhu. Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Where one may say that there are so many discrepancies in his life and yet he is doing all right in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but he has not corrected his habits, the reply is, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śāśvac chāntiṁ nigacchati. Because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all his bad habits will be corrected very soon.



Śyāmasundara: So that as long as one is improving in his moral nature...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is ultimate moral nature*-take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and gradually all moral things will come. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. All good qualifications will come automatically if he sticks to these four principles-these regulative principles and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and abiding by the orders of the spiritual master. Then everything will come automatically.



Śyāmasundara: Moral qualities will follow?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.



Śyāmasundara: It's not that one has to develop them independently?



Prabhupāda: No. Automatically it will come. Because the good qualities are already there in the spirit soul, and it is being purified, uncovered by the material contamination. The original cult is coming out. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: What does the word "cult" mean?



Prabhupāda: Cult means... What do you mean by cult? Cult is an ordinary word.



Śyāmasundara: I've always thought cult meant something sectarian or...



Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. Cult means the natural occupation.



*Revatīnandana: It usually means... A group with a common interest is usually called a cult. Some group with some common, agreed*-upon interest.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is I was explaining this, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not for everyone. It is meant for a certain group. Therefore you can take it as a cult, although it is meant for everyone. But generally we are accepted by the high*-class intelligent men. Therefore we can call it cult.



Śyāmasundara: Same word, "cultivation" or "culture"?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇanuśīlanam. The exact word is kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. That is cult, cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Favorably. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness like Kamsa, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how to kill Him. That is not ānukūlyena. That is not favorable. But you have to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness favorably: How Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. How Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. And that is required. This cult is required. Hṛṣīkeṇa*-hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir uttamam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When your senses will be purified and they will be engaged in serving Kṛṣṇa, satisfying Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is no such thing as absolute good and bad but that each specific situation must be treated individually. There is no absolute good and bad; that each individual situation must be...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So that situation means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anything done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good. Anything done not for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, it may be ethically, so-called ethically right*-it has no use.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the greatest good...



Prabhupāda: That situation... (indistinct) That situation means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In practical life also we see that the soldier's killing, it is supported by the government. The same soldier killing for his personal satisfaction, he is condemned to death.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the greatest good is the elimination of the greatest evil or the fulfillment of man's greatest needs.



Prabhupāda: That's it. We follow that, that the highest objective, the ultimate objective is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. So becoming a Vaiṣṇava, the highest perfection of human life is achieved.



Śyāmasundara: So that greatest need is...



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The greatest need is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi with guest) Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the supreme consciousness. Yes. That is pure consciousness, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva loke jīva*-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Every living entity is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. He always remembers that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: He says that...



Prabhupāda: Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. If he remembers always this.



Devotee: Eternal position of the living entity...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then he'll be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfect consciousness. But they are thinking that "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am God." That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the choice between good and bad is not made on theoretical grounds, but for reducing specific evils. In other words...



Prabhupāda: It is not theoretical that if you accept the universal form of God, then everything within the universe is part and parcel of that form. That is practical.



Śyāmasundara: But say there...



*Prabhupāda: Like a big tree, the every leaf, every branch, every twig, every flower is a part and parcel of the whole tree. Similarly, virāṭ*-rūpa. Apart from Kṛṣṇa's personal rūpa, the virāṭ-rūpa as it was manifested before Arjuna, if you take the virāṭ-rūpa, the whole universal form of the Lord, then anything within the universe is part and parcel of that virāṭ-rūpa, the resulting form.



Śyāmasundara: So the choice between a good and a bad action should be practiced to reduce evil, not just theoretical. That's his idea. That's his point.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. No theory. This is practical. Now, as a big machine, the screw is a part, so if every part works nicely, the machine goes nicely. So if we understand... Just like I think last night I was explaining mukha baho rūpa divya: the gigantic body, the brāhmaṇa class, they are the mouth. So one must do the duty of the mouth. The mouth speaks, vibrates and eats. So our proposition is to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Then the mouth duty, the brāhmaṇa's duty, is performed. Similarly, the kṣatriya's duty*-again we come to that varṇāśrama-dharma. So everyone is factually part and parcel of God and executes his prescribed duty, then it is perfect.



varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ

*nānyat tat*-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]



*If you want to satisfy the Supreme Lord, then you must execute the functions as they are prescribed in the varṇāśrama system. Then everything is all right. The same example: If all the parts of a machine is in order, working, it will make no trouble. If one of the screws, I mean, is slack, or it has fallen down, then another part is dislocated, that whole work is stopped. So we should consider in that way, that we are all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So according to part and parcel, you must execute your duty*-as brāhmaṇa, as kṣatriya, as vaiśya, as śūdra. And the brāhmaṇa being head, he should give the direction. Therefore he is considered the guru of other varṇas. But he... Because if there is no head, no brāhmaṇa, then the whole thing is disturbed. And that is the position at the present moment. Actually there is no brāhmaṇa, or scarcity of brāhmaṇa. So others are not guided properly. Therefore there is chaos in the whole society. So we require to create some brāhmaṇas, and others should understand to abide by the direction of the brāhmaṇas. Then the whole society will be in order.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the world can be made better by man's efforts, but that perfection is not possible.



Prabhupāda: No. Yes. In one sense it is all right, because this world is so made that you make it perfect today, again it deteriorates. Therefore in one sense we cannot make it perfect. That is a fact.



Śyāmasundara: But you can improve it?



Prabhupāda: Improve it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. So it can be improved, in any bad condition, by... How you can improve? By this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As Kṛṣṇa says, "I am..." [break] Svarūpa means ādayaḥ. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the same thing. If you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you are living with Kṛṣṇa. And if you are living with Kṛṣṇa, then what is your fear? Just like Arjuna, fighting with Kṛṣṇa, he had no fear. Similarly, if you live with Kṛṣṇa and go on with Kṛṣṇa, then what is your fear?



Śyāmasundara: What is that quote you said last night in the taxi, padma, padma...



Prabhupāda: Padaṁ padaṁ yat vipadāṁ na teṣām.



*samāśritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



Śyāmasundara: And the purport?



Prabhupāda: And the purport is, one who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, for him, this ocean of nescience, bhavasamudra, because just like a small pit foot created by the cow's hoof.



Devotee: Footprint.



Prabhupāda: And this place wherein there is step by step danger, this is not God's place. That Kṛṣṇa also says. As soon as he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. He immediately becomes eligible to transfer to the spiritual world.



Śyāmasundara: So actually, we're removing people from danger, from evil, by making them Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Prabhupāda: Certainly.



Śyāmasundara: So this is a welfare activity.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is best welfare activity in the world. What others can do in comparison to this?



Śyāmasundara: They may be able to remove some of the temporary dangers...



Prabhupāda: Yes. To give some temporary benefit, but again he is fallen.



Śyāmasundara: Step by step there's danger. When we discussed the utilitarians...



*Prabhupāda: (indistinct) In Caitanya Mahāprabhu's address, namo mahā*-vadānyāya. If I give some charity to a needy man, it will serve for a temporary period, but if you give him Kṛṣṇa-prema, then immediately he'll be transferred to the spiritual world.



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-prema-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ

[Cc. Madhya 19.53]



*Mahā-vadānyāya. This is the most munificent path*-to distribute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa: "Whomever you meet, just deliver this message of Kṛṣṇa." That is best welfare activity in the world.



Śyāmasundara: When we were discussing the utilitarians, we discussed that their goal was to achieve what was desired by the people, to do whatever was required...



*Prabhupāda: No. Desired by the people*-happiness. But they are trying to give happiness temporary, and we are giving happiness direct. Just like Bhāgavata says, yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Purify your existence, and you'll get perpetual, eternal happiness, bliss. So everyone is working hard for happiness, but how happiness can be attained in diseased condition? So cure the disease and he'll get it eternal. That is... Here is a physician. If you go when there is ailment, if you go to him, "Sir, cure me." "Why?" because it is impediment to happiness. Similarly, the real disease is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. You cure this, then you get real happiness.



Śyāmasundara: These utilitarians said that activity should be to achieve all that is desired by the people, but Dewey says that activity should be to achieve what is worthy to be desired.



*Prabhupāda: No, no. First thing is, people are desiring happiness. Whatever one may desire, the ultimate end is happiness. Nobody can deny this. But a diseased fellow, if he thinks that "I am happy," that is false happiness. A diseased man cannot be happy unless the disease is cured. Sometimes we go to a diseased person and ask, "How are you?" "Yes, I am all right." If he is all right, why is he lying down? He is not all right. He is artificially saying that "I am all right." What is this "all right"? Similarly, these foolish people, they are thinking, "I am happy." What is their happiness? If you have to die, then where is your happiness? Janma*-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. A real intelligent person will see that these are the things which are giving me distress: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is the happiness? Foolishly if we accept something as happiness, that is not happiness. Real happiness is when you are free from these four principles of distress: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]. Otherwise, where is your happiness? But if you think that "Although I am dying, I am happy," that is another thing, a fool's paradise.



Śyāmasundara: He says that "Desirable courses of action must meet specifiable conditions which are subject to prediction, and they must be based on judgments of experience." In other words, the desirable courses of action should be chalked out by experience, and they must be predictable.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Predictable. Just like we don't want death. So if I get the chance to come to a position not to die, is it not predictable? You don't want to die, and if I say, "You will come to this position, you will not die..."



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Is there some experience that shows me that that is a predictable result?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Experience... You may not have experience, but the superior has got experience. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. He says that "If you come to Me, you will never come back again." Just see. Who can excel Kṛṣṇa's experience? Vedāhaṁ samatītāni: [Bg. 7.26] He knows past, present, and future, so you have to take His assertion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that "Judgments about values are judgments about the conditions and the results of experienced objects, judgments about that which should regulate the formation of our desires, affections and enjoyments." In other words, in order to place a value on something, to judge what is the value of a particular item, that we should base this judgment upon the results of experience. Then we can guide those things which we should enjoy, where our desires should be, where our affections should lie, upon experience.



Prabhupāda: That experience we may not have personally, but if you take advice from a person who has got experience, that is as good as my experience. Just like you are going somewhere, you are purchasing a ticket. You have no experience where you are going, or you do not know whether actually you will go, but because others have gone and come by purchasing a ticket, you take advantage of that experience and you purchase a ticket.



Śyāmasundara: He says that value equals satisfaction. In other words, the fulfillment of...



Prabhupāda: So unless you have faith in some person, how you can be satisfied? Therefore you should find out a person in whom you can place your faith. And who can be a better person than Kṛṣṇa?



Śyāmasundara: If certain specific conditions are met, then the satisfaction is transformed into a value. In other words, if my hunger is satisfied by eating a certain foodstuff, then this foodstuff is given value.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So Kṛṣṇa gives that value. Just like Kṛṣṇa gave the value in Bhagavad*-gītā, and Arjuna in the beginning denied to fight, but he agreed to fight. He agreed to fight.



Śyāmasundara: Because he was satisfied by his faith in Kṛṣṇa?



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is required.



Śyāmasundara: He says that moral laws are comparable to physical laws. In other words, they are guidelines to elicit certain responses under given conditions. Just like if I throw a ball up, I know it is going to come down. So a moral law will guide me in the same way. If I act in a certain way, there will automatically be a certain result, a response.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we prescribe, ādau śraddhā tato sādhu saṅgasya. If you follow one after another, you get the result. If you have got faith, you make association with devotees. Then the next step, you will be eager to execute devotional service. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu*-sango 'thya bhajana-kriyā 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. Then all misgivings are eradicated. Then you become firm faith, niṣṭhā, then attachment, one after another. Unless you experience the next result, how can you make progress?



Śyāmasundara: Are there any moral guidelines to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Moral guidelines are there. That is given by Rūpa Gosvāmī, sato vṛtteḥ, sadho saṅge, utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt [Upadeśāmṛta 3]. With patience and conviction, enthusiasm, becoming very fair in your dealings, and in association of saintly persons, devotees, you will advance.



Śyāmasundara: Then the result of following these guidelines is predictable results? Automatically certain things happen.



Prabhupāda: Yes. One after another. Just like a teacher gives a task to the students, one type of task in the beginning, next another type, next another type, he makes progress.



Śyāmasundara: What are those again? Patience...?



Prabhupāda: First of all, enthusiasm.



Śyāmasundara: First enthusiasm.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you are enthusiastic, how can you enter into any activities? Utsāhān. Then patience*-not to be impatient, "Oh, I am working so hard, I am getting no result." No. You will get. So (indistinct) niścaya, the firm conviction that "Because I have taken the path of the mahājanas prescribed by Rūpa Gosvāmī or prescribed by Kṛṣṇa, it must be successful." It may be taking some time, it is delayed, that doesn't matter. It will be successful. Niścaya. Not that niścaya can sit idly. No. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Prescribed duties must be performed fairly, in good faith, sato vṛtteḥ. And in the association, that will give us impetus. People are coming to our association automatically. Just like John came in our association, and gradually he has become a devotee.



Śyāmasundara: So if one follows these moral guidelines, the result is certain, predictable?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. (Hindi with guest) Good association means to associate with one of the devotees. Sādhu*-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. (Hindi with guest)



Śyāmasundara: He says that moral laws are not absolute rules which never permit exceptions. He says that moral laws are flexible; that they're not absolute.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Real moral law means the law of the Supreme. Just like Kṛṣṇa has preached dhyāna*-yoga, jñāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, so many yoga systems. Then He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. These principles have not less moral, dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, but ultimately He says, "Give up all of them." Then what is moral? His word is moral. Whatever He says, that is moral. Not this dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga. No. Whatever He says, that is morality. So it is changed. Nobody can argue: "Sir, you have prescribed so many kinds of yogas. Now You say to give up all these things. It is contradictory." No. It is not contradictory. Whatever He says, that is morality. That is Vaiṣṇava principle. We don't consider anything moral or immoral. Whatever is ordered by Kṛṣṇa or His representative, that is moral. That is our position.



Śyāmasundara: He says, "It is the function of intelligence to serve action, and action benefits man when it obeys the dictates of intelligence."



Prabhupāda: Yes. So who can be more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa?



Śyāmasundara: Then he says that "Values must be regarded as goods of practical significance which result from intelligently directed activities." So something we place value on must be acted...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Arjuna followed the decision of Kṛṣṇa, so there is value. He became victorious, he enjoyed the kingdom, and he became a famous devotee.



Śyāmasundara: As a practical result of his activities?



Prabhupāda: Yes. As a practical result. Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that this Kurukṣetra fight was just like a great ocean, and all these Bhīṣma, Droṇa, Karṇa, they were just like big animals in the ocean. He said, "It is important for my grandfather to cross the ocean dangerously with all these big, big animals. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa it was possible." This is value.



yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo

*yatra pārtho dhanur*-dharaḥ

tatra vijayo...



Śyāmasundara: He says that morality is social, that besides a personal meaning it must have a social meaning.



Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a type of morality which is above social meaning. It is transcendental. Social means guided by the three modes of material nature. But Kṛṣṇa's order is above, transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān [Bg. 14.26].



Śyāmasundara: So it's asocial but not antisocial. Our morality is above social.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Social is subordinate to this world.



Śyāmasundara: But it is not antisocial.



Prabhupāda: No. It is social. It is sublime social. It is not only social but sublime social.



Śyāmasundara: He says that rights are also social, just like if I claim a right, a certain social right, that I must also accept my responsibility. Just for instance free speech. If I accept free speech as my social right, that I must also accept others' right to free speech.



*Prabhupāda: But that is lacking in the present society, because these rascals, they are proud of their nationals but they are denying this same national life to the animals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. Therefore they are rascals. Why the animals should be denied their national right? They are born in the same country. They have a right to live at the cost of God. Why we are interfering with their independence, given right? Therefore they are rascals. Their so*-called social, moral, philosophical, political, they are all rascaldom. Therefore our decision is, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā: [SB 5.18.12] anyone who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualities. In the other direction, we will find so many defects with his so-called moral and social position.



Śyāmasundara: He says that God... He defines God as the active relation between the ideal and the actual.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We are active in God's service. People are thinking, "What service they are doing? They should be giving service to the country, to society, and they are making ārati and brass idols." They are thinking like that. But for us it is practical.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that there is no particular being who is God, but that God is the unity of all ideal ends, which allows us to desire an action. In other words, whatever motivates us to higher activity, that is God, that motivation, but that God is...



Prabhupāda: In other words, whatever you do for God, that is higher activity.



*Śyāmasundara: Well, he would say whatever you do for anyone*-for community or country-whatever is higher activity...



Prabhupāda: Then why does he name "God"?



Śyāmasundara: He says God is not a particular being.



Prabhupāda: Then why does he name "God"? Why does he bring in the word "God"? Suppose if he is concerned with the man only, so why does he bring the word in, "God"? What is the purpose?



Śyāmasundara: He is trying to define that which motivates us to desire something higher or more.



Prabhupāda: That means God should be an instrument to serve our purpose. That is his philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Not necessarily. He leaves that open.



Prabhupāda: Then why does he bring the name of God? That is my position.



Revatīnandana: It says he could not accept the term as referring to a particular being.



Śyāmasundara: He said that "God summons us to intelligent actions which calls for deliberate choice, purposive behavior that is selective." In other words, he is trying to find out why is it that the human intelligence acts in such a way that it selects this over that and guides itself by selecting purposefully. That purposiveness he calls God.



Prabhupāda: That is making the name of God as a scapegoat. He has no practical use of God.



Śyāmasundara: He has no clear idea of God.



*Prabhupāda: That means he is godless. So therefore we say, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. As soon as he becomes godless, all his philosophy becomes null and void.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the word "God" is that ideal which we acknowledge as having authority over our emotions and our will or volition.



Prabhupāda: But he says there is no being; it is an ideal.



Śyāmasundara: It's an idea.



Prabhupāda: So people may not like that ideas; therefore the communists are there. Others may not like this idea.



Guest: He says God summons. He says God summons us. But I cannot see how a nonbeing can summon.



Prabhupāda: Summons. That is contradiction.



Śyāmasundara: He says it is the idea which...



Prabhupāda: How the idea summons? He says the idea summons us.



Śyāmasundara: Ah, yes. Well, and he says that it is the value to which one is supremely devoted, that this is God.



Prabhupāda: How can devotion be possible without a being? Just like devotion means between the devotee and the person who is offered that devotional service.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the Communists would say that "God is the state, and all my supreme devotion is for the state, to serve the state."



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but your state, Communist Russian state, is not overgrowing others. So that cannot be God. God is obeyed by everyone. Your state may not be obeyed by other states. God means the supreme controller. You are not the supreme controller. Then how can you make the state as God, your state?



Śyāmasundara: So actually his idea of God would change. For the Communists God means the state; for the primitive savage God means the...



Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi made Cāṇakya his god.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That to which one is supremely devoted, that means God.



Prabhupāda: Anyone may be supremely devoted to his wife or sometimes supremely devoted to his dog. The dog is God? Wife is God? So everyone has got one god, and I think that it is supported by Vivekananda, yata mata tata patha: "Whatever you think of God, that's all right." (Hindi with guest) Everyone can manufacture his own God. (laughter) Yes.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we cannot achieve absolute certainty or perfection. So we must rest content...



Prabhupāda: That means he has got a poor fund of knowledge. He does not admit that. But we can say that because his knowledge is not perfect, he's saying like that.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that we must rest content with a faith and a commitment which helps us to face the future resolutely, reconstructing our environment to obtain more satisfactory adjustments. This is the Western philosophy in a nutshell.



Prabhupāda: Why not take directly the words of God? (Hindi with guest)



Śyāmasundara: He says that the idea of God is relative to the observer; that it may be something for one man and something for another. So there is no absolute certainty...



*Prabhupāda: That means that none of them know what is God. That is the difference. Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says,



manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]



Nobody knows God. Only one person in many millions may know.



Śyāmasundara: He finds refuge in a kind of humanitarian welfare idea that by...



Prabhupāda: This is called utilitarian.



Śyāmasundara: Called what?



Prabhupāda: Utilitarian.



Śyāmasundara: Utilitarian. He differs from the utilitarians, because they say that we should not...



Prabhupāda: They say if some idea can be utilized for some better position of society. That is utilitarian.



Śyāmasundara: But the utilitarians say that everything should be utilized to serve man's desires. But he says everything should be used to serve man's worthiest desires, man's highest desires, worthy desires.



Prabhupāda: What is the difference between desire and highest desire?



Śyāmasundara: Well, someone may desire more broadness.



Prabhupāda: Who will judge who is highest? Everyone will say, "My desire is the highest."



Śyāmasundara: The utilitarians might say that "People desire more brothels, so let us build more brothels.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Modern world, that is the highest desire. How can you refute that if there is no standard? Everyone says, "This is my law." Unless you go to the court, who will judge?



Revatīnandana: Now he wants to make his desire the highest desire. He's got a theory now that "This is the highest thing I can think of, so this is God." That means I have the highest.



Śyāmasundara: He says that...



Prabhupāda: Our formula is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says...



*Prabhupāda: We say that if one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is all right. Otherwise reject him. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. They are mano-ratha. They are mental speculators. They are hovering on the mental plane.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we must continually make satisfactory adjustment; that things change...



Prabhupāda: That you cannot do, because you are hovering on the mental plane. And the mind is always imperfect, rejecting and accepting. So nothing will be standard. Your mind is accepting something, I am rejecting it. So on the mental plane you cannot come to the standard. It is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: He says that...



*Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said,



indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ

[Bg. 3.42]



We have to go, transcend the mental platform, go to the intellectual platform, then surpass intellectual platform, come to the spiritual platform. That is the process. (Hindi with guest) No. That is not sufficient.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the nature of existence is temporary and so we must make a constant revision to change things.



Prabhupāda: This nature is temporary, but there is another nature, sanātana. That he does not know. Paras tasmāt tu bhavo anyaḥ, 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. That is standardization. Sanātana means eternal. That does not change. It is neither created or annihilated. That is standard.



Śyāmasundara: So somehow or other we must develop a...



*Prabhupāda: Just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Five thousand years ago Arjuna became Kṛṣṇa conscious. The same Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are also preaching. This is standard. And before that Arjuna, the same Kṛṣṇa consciousness was preached to the sun*-god forty millions of years ago. So this does not change. This is unchanging, avyakta. Param avyayam. Kṛṣṇa is avyayam and His consciousness is avyayam. It is not changing.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we must develop..., the whole world must develop a common faith in practical activity.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Kṛṣṇa's position.



Śyāmasundara: He says that "Ours is the responsibility of accepting a precious heritage of values, accumulated by the continuous human community at great cost in effort and suffering, and to expand, conserve, transmit, and rectify these values bequeathed to us." In other words, he says that we must take the lessons of history and build upon them in order to transmit these values and preserve them.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We are doing that. We are taking from the history of forty millions of years ago and transmitting it by guru*-paramparā, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. Accepted by great authorities like Vyāsa, Nārada, Devala, five thousand years, Arjuna, and later on the great ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. Lately, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya. And we are following Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura.



Śyāmasundara: So the values that are taught to us by history, are they not...



Prabhupāda: The same value. The value has not deteriorated. It has not fluctuated.



Śyāmasundara: What is that?



*Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The price has not fluctuated. The same price. Kṛṣṇa says, "The same thing I am teaching you," in the Fourth Chapter, "which was taught to the sun*-god, Vivasvān, forty millions of years ago, the same thing, because it is now broken, the chain, I am teaching you again the same thing." So it does not change. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that does not change.



Śyāmasundara: He would say that those values which civilizations most cherish or prize, that those are the values that we should accept. Just like that...



Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic civilization. That is the Vedic civilization. The Vedic system still stands. So many civilizations come and go on; therefore this is value in civilization.



Śyāmasundara: I think all civilizations have cherished those values at their peak.



Prabhupāda: But because they are not factual, they have failed. But Vedic civilization is still going strong.



*Śyāmasundara: Just like the Christian civilization, they, at their peak, when they are most enlightened, they also prized honesty, uprightness, love thy neighbor*-these different social values.



*Prabhupāda: The Christian civilization has got values undoubtedly. But they do not follow it. They do not follow it. There is God consciousness, there is morality, there are ethical laws, there is acceptance of God's authority, (indistinct), but they do not follow it. Not only Christians, even the so*-called Hindus, they also do not follow. That is the world situation.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the problems of philosophy are rooted in social conditions, so that we should... Urgent social reform is required in order to solve the problems of philosophy. By changing social structures through education, then the problems of philosophy will be solved.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore we take the standard method. Just like this varṇāśrama method*-standard. We maintain it and there will be no trouble in the society. Actually, there is natural division. The intelligent class of men, the administrative class of men, the production class of men and the laborer class of men, that is prevailing all over the world. That is no doubt. But they are not doing their duty. The brāhmaṇas, the intelligent class of men, they are not following these strictly the principles, satya, śama, dama, titikṣava. Similarly the administrative class, they are not following the strictly the rules and regulations. Therefore it is fallen.



Śyāmasundara: Presumably this is from a lack of education.



Prabhupāda: Na bhajanti (Sanskrit) nainad bhrastha (Sanskrit). If you do not follow the principles... Just like the administrative class is there all over the world. The class of men who is interested in administration, they are taking vote, they are coming to governmental high, high post, but they are not following the principles of administrative class: na bhajayante avama bhṛtya (?).



Śyāmasundara: Is this the result of a lack of education?



*Prabhupāda: Lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The so*-called education is there. Lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The administrative class is forgetting that they are belonging to the arms of Kṛṣṇa. Mukha bāhu rūpa (?). So the administrative class is supposed to be the arms of Kṛṣṇa, but they are not thinking in terms of Kṛṣṇa, that "I am part and parcel of the body of Kṛṣṇa." That is forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are in trouble. They are separated from Kṛṣṇa. This hand is my arm, but if it is separated from my body, it will be called the arms or the hand, but it has no value.



Śyāmasundara: Dewey's greatest faith was in the educational system, that the educational system should reflect the real welfare of the community.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This educational system is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, tan manye adhītam uttamam. The best educational system is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So because people are being educated without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is becoming valueless. Therefore we are giving, I mean to say, purificatory method in every department.



Śyāmasundara: Because value equals satisfaction.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa is one, and everything is zero, so if there is one, zero is added*-ten, hundred, thousand-increases its value. Take out the one and it is all zero. Thousands of zeros will not carry any weight (?). So they are all zero without Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy has a social responsibility to influence intelligent management of human affairs.



Prabhupāda: That we are doing. We are asking everyone that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and do things intelligently, your life will be successful. You'll be happy." How else you'll be happy? That is our propaganda.



Śyāmasundara: Well, we also are influencing the managers, intelligent managers of society.



*Prabhupāda: That I say. The managers, when they are forgetful of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot manage. Cannot manage. That he has (indistinct) relationship. You are managing something, but you have to satisfy somebody. So that is given in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣanam [SB 1.2.13]. If you want perfection of your managerial work, then you should try to see whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. If not, you are simply wasting time. You cannot satisfy anyone. Yasmin tuṣṭe jagat tuṣṭo. If you satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then everyone will be satisfied.



Śyāmasundara: His idea was that no philosophy can be fixed or finished or absolute, but that all ideas must be continually revised.



Prabhupāda: Because they have got imperfect philosophy. Imperfect is not perfect; therefore he is thinking of advancing further to make it perfect. So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness he remains always incomplete; therefore imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that "All ideas must be tested in the laboratory of educational experience, where they can be challenged, their consequences evaluated, and where they can be continuously modified or reconstructed."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you see how Arjuna was perfectly good man, because he was Kṛṣṇa conscious. He was not willing to kill his enemy. He was hesitating, "What is the use of taking this kingdom?" This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Because the other side, they were not thinking, but Arjuna, because he is Kṛṣṇa's devotee, he was considering, "What is the use of taking this kingdom, by killing (indistinct)?" In other words, nobody can be perfect without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No philosopher, no scientist, no sociologist can be perfect without Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Śyāmasundara: But in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy the ideas are not to be re*-evaluated. Aren't they absolute, the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Prabhupāda: Yes, the philosophy is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is absolute, so His consciousness is also absolute.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that philosophy is always changing, that we always have to revise.



*Prabhupāda: That is in the material platform. He has no information what is perfect state. He does not know. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. All tapasya finished. Samsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. If Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, then the all duty is all right. You don't require to satisfy anyone else. Whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: So that's all.



*Revatīnandana: It seems like his philosophy*-he knows what to do with knowledge, but he hasn't got any knowledge.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore we say, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad*-guṇā: [SB 5.18.12] anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has no good knowledge, he has no good qualification. That's all. (end)





KIERKEGAARD.SYA



Soren Aabye Kierkegaard



Śyāmasundara: ...philosopher is called Kierkegaard. He was a Danish philosopher, last century. He is the father of what is called existentialism, which is a very prominent modern philosophy, probably the most prominent modern philosophy. Last time we were discussing the phenomenologists, who are interested in getting at the "whatness," or the essence of a thing. These existentialists, they are more interested in the "thatness," or the existence of a thing. So this Kierkegaard describes three steps of the life experience. The first step he calls the aesthetic step or stage of life. This aesthetic stage of life is characterized by two types of persons: that one engaged in sense gratification completely, unrestricted sense pleasure; and the mental speculator or philosopher. He said that in both cases that both persons are uncommitted to any specific goals and that they become bored with their activities, unrestricted sense gratification and philosophical speculation; *that they are devoid of commitment-they are not committing themselves to anything, simply enjoying and speculating*-and that this type of life, this aesthetic type of life, is...



Prabhupāda: So how they can be philosopher if they have no ultimate goal?



Śyāmasundara: He says they are not really philosophers; they are mental speculators.



Prabhupāda: So mental speculator anyone can become, without any aim. What is this? Ship without a rudder, a man without aim.



Śyāmasundara: They said that both of these types of persons become bored with themselves and they get a feeling of emptiness or meaninglessness or despair. He calls it despair, hopelessness, nothingness. So that this pleasure...



Prabhupāda: That we condemn, śūnyavādi. Śūnyavādi, or nirviśeṣa śūnyavādi, impersonalists and voidists. They must be overcome by despair. They have no aim. They do not know what is the aim of life. Being disgusted in the present form of life, they, when they have no conclusion, no high aim, they become disappointed. That is the cause of these hippies.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that then they indulge in pleasure and mental speculation as a diversionary tactic. To try to cover up this despair, they become more indulged in sense pleasure and more speculating.



Prabhupāda: Just like people in the material world, when a businessman failure, he takes to drinking. Sometimes great shock, in order to forget, one takes to drinking. Yes. Intoxication.



*Śyāmasundara: So he says that this is the stepping*-stone, or the first stage toward self-realization, that from this despair that one can find his authentic selfhood.



*Prabhupāda: This we will admit. That is, therefore the Vedānta*-sūtra is there. When fickle people become disgusted, that "We have worked so hard, but still we could not attain the goal of life, peace and prosperity," despair, then they begin to think, "Actually, what is the purpose of life?" That is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring into the Absolute Truth or the ultimate truth of life. That is natural in human life. That sort of inquiry is necessary for further development.



Śyāmasundara: He says that to find our authentic selfhood then the next step, beginning with the stage of not being committed to anything, is to be aware that life is an "either/or" decision; *that we must begin to commit ourselves to certain patterns of action and make conscious commitments-either this or that*-and make decisions and become concerned, ethically(?) concerned with life. This he says is the second stage toward self-realization.



*Prabhupāda: Self*-realization, as I said, that enquiring to the Absolute Truth. It is not that?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: I think that. Yes. That is self*-realization. So there the philosophy of life begins: inquiry into the origin, source of everything.



Śyāmasundara: The emphasis of these existentialists is upon acting. They think that first there must come an active decision to say, be concerned one way or the other about something, and take an active role in dealing with life rather than aimlessly taking pleasure from it. But try to ethically become involved with life and make decisions, either this or that.



*Prabhupāda: So these things are very nicely described in Vedānta*-sūtra, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the right commentary on Vedānta-sūtra. Just like it is also philosophy, that what is the actual aim of life, or what is the Absolute Truth. So the Vedānta-sūtra is so nicely made, the answer is also there. The Absolute Truth must be that thing which is the origin of everything. Now Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam discusses what is the nature of that origin. This requires philosophical as well as authentic proof. Now, that origin, first of all the origin is conscious or not conscious. Origin, just like these some philosophers, they are tracing life from bones, tracing life. So now one should be intelligent enough to understand whether actually life can begin from bones and stones or life begins from life, actual life. So if the origin of everything, you can say the original source of creation or the creator, if you take it as creator, that we have to take. But creation does not take automatically. There is no proof. There is no proof. From matter, automatically creation takes place, that is not very perfect philosophy, neither one can support this view in the long run. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that the origin of everything must be conscious. And that consciousness, also, existence, existing eternally. Not that consciousness has developed under certain conditions. In this way Bhāgavata has explained, Vedānta-sūtra has explained the origin very logically and sensibly. So these answers are there in the Bhāgavata and Vedānta-sūtra.



Śyāmasundara: They... What they're more concerned with is that they find themselves here in this world as an active living being, and they are concerned more with the activities of life, how to...



Prabhupāda: But how the activity came? Then one should be..., intelligent man should be concerned first of all wherefrom this activity came. What is the origin of activity? That is philosophy. You are simply seeing there are... Sometimes we see activity in matter, just like the cloud, cloud is coming on the sky, it is moving, there is activity. But that activity, this material activity, is interaction. That is not real activity. Real activity, just like modern science, they are concerned with the material science, seeing the activity, they are saying it is by nature it is going; *rather, a fruit is coming out, a flower is coming out, this is, there is activity. So one should know what is the cause of this activity. They think that it is automatically coming, by nature, nature. They cannot explain. That is not philosophy. But we have to see wherefrom this activity comes. We get answer from Bhagavad*-gītā that behind all these material activities there is a brain, there is a... That is God. Just like this machine is working, acting. It is talking. As soon as you press one button it's talking. But a child will say, "Oh, how wonderful this machine is talking." This is childish. One who has got sense, he'll know this talking is not coming automatically. Somebody has talked, and it is simply a record. That is intelligence. So wherefrom the activity is coming?



Śyāmasundara: They say that at this level of existence that we can't say where it is coming from. We simply find...



Prabhupāda: Then you can't say, then you learn. Then you are not in the perfect stage.



Śyāmasundara: No. This is only the middle stage, he calls.



Prabhupāda: So the middle stage, so then you have to learn. You are not perfect, so you do not know. So one who does not know, his speculation, what is the value? Just like a child, if he does not know how the machine is working, how, then his speculation on this machine, what is the value of it? Without perfect knowledge, simply speculation, that is going on. The modern civilization, they prefer simply speculation without any basic truth. That is the defect. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]. And they have become leaders, philosophers, scientists. Bhāgavata condemns them: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās. They are blind themselves and they are trying to lead other blind men. So their leading, their science, their philosophy are practically useless. They cannot give any benefit to the human society. Childish.



Śyāmasundara: So if...



Prabhupāda: If you do not know, then why do you take the post of teacher? This is our proposition. If you do not know, sit down. It is better not to talk foolish. There is an English proverb: "It is better not to talk than to talk foolish." If you do not know, then don't talk. That is nice. What is the use of philosophically foolishly talking this and that and "maybe," "perhaps," like that, like that? What is the use of such knowledge?



*Śyāmasundara: So he proposes these three stages of existence. The first one we talked about is the aesthetic stage of noncommitment*-simply sense gratification and speculation. The second stage he says that a man makes a leap in commitment and begins to concern himself or involve himself with the world on an ethical level. And the third stage is the religious stage, or self-realization. But in the second stage he says that "The despair of life has lead one to the commitment to make choices, to commit himself to action and to enter into life's involvement and become ethically concerned; that suddenly he's turned within himself and in his passion and freedom and decision or subjectivity, then he begins to find himself."



Prabhupāda: What does he find?



*Śyāmasundara: This may be likened to the people who do pious works, or the people who do good to others, who are morally committed to life, on that level. To feed others, clothe others, like that. They say that that is a step higher than simply sense gratification and speculation. He says that "This is a move in the right direction toward authentic selfhood, and eventually this way we will understand what I am. And because we are at last doing something, we are involved with life, then we are no more abstract. We are existing." Then we are existing. That someone who is doing all sense gratification and mental speculation, they are living abstract life, abstract life, external life. Simply waiting for the enjoyment of life and speculating what is the meaning of things, that is abstract life, and this being committed to action or decision-making is called existence. This is the first step toward real existence. So in this ethical stage he says that by the very act of making decisions that we become aware, that we become more and more aware, and that decision*-making means awareness. And if we make choices about anything, that means that we are becoming aware.



*Prabhupāda: What is the decision? Why people become moral*-to feed the poor, like that, humanitarian? What is the decision, ultimate decision?



*Śyāmasundara: He says that it's not so much the fact of the decision but how the decision is made: if it's made with integrity and self*-confidence.



Prabhupāda: How the decision... Why, how the decision is made, that I still don't know. How? Why? Why they make such decision? One man is running on a slaughterhouse. He's killing only. Another man is after humanitarian work, giving food, giving them chance to live. So what is the ultimate decision?



Śyāmasundara: The decision is...



*Prabhupāda: There are two sides. There are two kinds of people are going. The same man, he is giving charity for feeding poor man or giving relief to the distressed man, but at the same time he's encouraging animal*-killing. So what is the ethics? What is the ethical law in these two contradictory activities? One side... Just like our Vivekananda. He is advocating daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā, "Feed the poor," but feed the poor with mother Kālī's prasāda, where poor goats are killed. Just like, another, one side feeding the poor, another side killing the poor goat. So what is the ethic? What is the ethical law in this connection? Just like people open hospitals, and the doctor prescribes, "Give this man," what it is called," (Hindi), ox blood, or chicken juice." So what is this ethic? And they're supporting that "Here is chicken juice." Just because animal has no soul, so they can be killed. This is another theory. So why the animal has no soul? So imperfect knowledge. So on the basis of imperfect knowledge this ethic or this humanitarian, what is the value? We do not give any value to all this understanding. Where is the ethics? If you protect the human life by giving him something by killing-there are so many medicines, but the killing is very prominent-then next point should be that if you say that the human life is important, so nonimportant animal-killing can be supported to save the important. Then the question will be, "Why it is important? Why consider the human life is important and the animal life is not important?" These are the questions of ethical law. Where are these discussions on the ethical laws?



Śyāmasundara: He gives importance not so much to the facts of the...



Prabhupāda: Then if there is no fact, then what is the use of such philosophy? It is not based on fact.



Śyāmasundara: Yeah. He gives stress on how the decision is made.



Prabhupāda: When decision is made, then you should go farther. How the decision is made, that is our question. How is this made this decision, that you kill somebody and by killing somebody you protect somebody? How this decision is? That is our question. What is the answer?



Śyāmasundara: His answer is that you make the decision by inwardness, by turning inward...



Prabhupāda: And what is that inward mean? Why you are thinking that "I shall give protection to my brother by killing another gentleman"? Why you are thinking like this? What is the ethic? What is the value of ethic? That is our question.



Śyāmasundara: Well, perhaps his ethical man would not make that decision. Perhaps his ethical man would make the decision to protect the cow also. Because the idea is that through a passionate, feeling, awareness inside that one will come to the right decisions, that, that...



Prabhupāda: But he has no standard of right decision. What is the standard of right decision?



Śyāmasundara: His... It's... It's not so much... His motto is not so much "Know thyself" as to "Choose thyself." He's not so much saying that what you...



Prabhupāda: So how you can make your choice if you do not know yourself? You make your choice, "This is good, this is bad." So this choice is made when you know yourself. So this is my interpretation. I have interest in this; therefore it is good. That, so without knowing yourself, how you can make this choice? How you can make your decision?



Śyāmasundara: He says that you will know yourself when you begin choosing yourself. And when you begin making choices and examining them, you find the right choice for you, and you will begin to know yourself. That this passionate, inner awareness when one becomes engaged in life, in doing things actively, and making decisions...



*Prabhupāda: So this choice, when you know yourself, so how you can know yourself unless you go to somebody who knows things as they are? Just like people know that "I am this body." But this kind of knowing is animal knowing. This kind of knowing, that "I am this body," yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. If one understands that "I am this body," then he is no better than an ass. The animals, the ass, the ass also thinks, "I am this body," and you also think that you are body, then what is the difference between you and the ass? And what is the value of the philosophy of an ass if you are in the bodily concept of life?



Śyāmasundara: This particular philosophy puts emphasis on the act of deciding, that whatever is decided doesn't matter, but...



Prabhupāda: But you cannot decide without your aim. What is the aim of life?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that because we cannot know the aim or...



Prabhupāda: Then how we can make decision?



Śyāmasundara: Then we must make a choice, either this or that.



Prabhupāda: That is childish. That is childish. Just like a child, he does not know. He sometimes plays with these things, sometimes plays with these things, sometimes plays with that. That's all. That is child.



Śyāmasundara: Well, his idea is that you choose one fact and stick to it, whether..., no matter what it is, but that it must be..., your decisions must be free, full of passion, tension and integrity.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about someone like Hitler, who chose...



Śyāmasundara: Just like, just like Hitler, they might say, or actually the whole hippie philosophy comes from these men, these existentialists. It's not... It doesn't matter what you do, it's that you do it with conviction, determination, passion, freedom.



Prabhupāda: However foolish it may be. That is nice. (laughter) However foolish it may be, you go on.



Śyāmasundara: They would admire Hitler because at least he stuck to his principles.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would admire Hitler.



Prabhupāda: Ah?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would admire Hitler for sticking to his principles and acting upon them.



Prabhupāda: So what happened? Hitler became vanquished. That's all.



Devotee: Now they admire the Hell's Angels.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wouldn't you say that pretty much, that this philosophy is guiding a lot of the figures, the youth...?



Śyāmasundara: This is the most prevalent philosophy today, guiding people. It says that because God is dead, that we don't know where we came from, all we know is that we're here existing, the only way we can genuinely know ourself and exist authentically...



Prabhupāda: But our point is that we do not know genuinely. What we know, that is foolishness, that is asses' knowledge. Just like ass knows that "I am this body. I am the servant of this washerman." So this knowledge, like this. So he has made the decision. The ass has made this decision that "I shall take a morsel of grass and whole day I shall carry tons of cloth of this washerman." He has made this decision, that's all. Then is it that the decision is very nice? This is asses' decision, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: They say that rather than indulge in unrestricted sense gratification or spend our life speculating about...



Prabhupāda: So why not unrestricted sense gratification, if one makes that decision?



Śyāmasundara: Just because it becomes boring.



Prabhupāda: Ah?



Śyāmasundara: He says because unrestricted sense gratification becomes boring and full of despair and...



Prabhupāda: That is boring, then he, he must give that aim of life which is not boring.



Śyāmasundara: He says the only..., that it is not boring if one becomes actively engaged somehow with life, you see. He gets a purpose in life and chooses to act on that purpose.



Prabhupāda: How you make such choice, that is the point. Whimsically.



Śyāmasundara: No. He says this choice is made through inward, subjective, passionate search, and it will come out.



*Prabhupāda: So that inward, subjective, just like these Bowery bums*-what is called?



Devotees: Bowery bums.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So they have made decision as soon as they get some money, purchase one bottle whiskey and drink it, and lie down.



Śyāmasundara: Then he would say there is no decision being made there. There is no commitment to any ethical decision there. That is just sense gratification. He says the next higher level above unrestricted sense gratification is to take up a cause, a good cause, and determine...



Prabhupāda: So how he'll make it a good cause? The good cause is relative. You think something good cause, I think something good cause, so what is really good cause? Who will, who will decide that this is good cause?



Śyāmasundara: He says that the good cause is determined when we begin to anticipate death. He says that if we lived every moment as if we might die soon in anticipation of death that we will make the right decisions. That then the value, the real value of things will come out.



Prabhupāda: That is not possible, because we see that in the slaughterhouse the animal is seeing that "Next life is mine." What decision he can make? And still he is standing there and does not go away.



Śyāmasundara: He's not exactly human. The human being, he can think of things, death.



Prabhupāda: The human being, if he is like animal, then he must be animal. Just like this is human being, that one should think that "I do not wish to die, but death is overcoming me. So what is the cause, and what should I do?" That is human being. Nobody says, if any one of us is asked, "Would you like to die?" You may whimsically say yes, but no, actually he does not like to die. But death overcomes. If I ask somebody that "Would you like to be diseased?" he'll say no, but disease is coming. So these are the human problems, that simply making some whimsical decision. The real decision is that I do not wish to suffer, but suffering comes upon me. So how to make the solution? And that is real decision. And everyone is trying to do that. Everyone is working so hard just to get out of suffering.



Śyāmasundara: One of the examples that this man's successor has used, which probably would apply here, is that in the case, for instance, of having to fight... [break]



Prabhupāda: ...not working?



Śyāmasundara: It ended. I had to turn it over.



Prabhupāda: So therefore, considering as he says past, present and future, we have to act in such a way what is beneficial for past, present and future, and then the next question is that if I existed in the past, am existing now, and I shall exist in future, then what is this body? The body, this body was not in the past. This body, it will exist for some years, and in the future it will not exist. Then you immediately understand that this body is external. Then my decision should be not on the basis of body, but on the basis of my real position, the soul. These things (indistinct). That is right decision.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says whereas the condition of modern man*-that he is disintegrated and he doesn't have connection with the past; he's lost his memory; *he has no connection with the future, then he becomes hopeless*-that the opposite of this is the integrated personality: that he has memory and that he has hope, these two qualities. In other words, his present position is connected with the past and future. This is the integrated personality.



Prabhupāda: That is being taught, that integration, that Kṛṣṇa reminds that you were in the past, you will be in future, and you are existing now. So decision should be taken on this platform. That is real decision.



Śyāmasundara: He said that at the moment of decision or of commitment of the integrated personality that the self unites the past with the future and establishes an integrity.



Prabhupāda: Then he comes to the point of self.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That the self...



Prabhupāda: And he accepts that self is eternal, integrating past, present and future.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. Well, this is the next level. This is the third and highest level. He said that first of all there's the aesthetic level of unrestricted sense gratification, but this ends in despair. Then comes the ethical level, when one decides, "Well, I will take a cause, good cause, and I will commit myself to it and act upon that." Then he comes to the development of the religious stage, or the highest stage. When he, his decision*-making power is so advanced that...



Prabhupāda: In other words, he's supporting our movement.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Because we are in the topmost stage.



Śyāmasundara: He does. The modern philosophers, his followers like Sartre and Camus and people like that, they have only followed his lower development stages. They have not thought of this aspect of a religious stage. He said that the ethical stage is typified by a regard for duty, but this advances to the religious stage when there is obedience and commitment to God. And the chief symptoms of this stage...



Prabhupāda: So it is not that he is supporting our movement?



Śyāmasundara: No, no. He does. He says that the chief symptoms of the religious..., when one is advanced to the religious stage, are suffering and faith.



Prabhupāda: Not always suffering. (indistinct) We are, we in religious. Suppose we are in the topmost. Does it means that we are suffering?



Śyāmasundara: He is a Christian religionist. He's a Christian religionist. They give importance to suffering. "Christ suffered for us, so we..." He says that to abstain from sin means suffering, we are suffering.



Prabhupāda: That is also wrong theory. If Christ is God, or God's son, then why he should suffer? God is subjected to suffering? Then what kind of God He is?



Devotee: They say that he did not suffer for God; he suffered for man.



Prabhupāda: Anyway, if there is no suffering, then where is the question of suffering for God or suffering for man?



Śyāmasundara: They say that it's a paradox, that... They say that it's a paradox or an apparent contradiction that the Transcendental came into the material world and appeared to suffer for men, but actually he does not suffer because He is God, that He only appeared to suffer to save us from our sins and remind us always not to sin.



Prabhupāda: But why the Christians are committing sins still? They have given contract to Jesus Christ that "You suffer for us and we go on committing sins." Very good philosophy.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is their concept of God?



*Śyāmasundara: Well, going on now, he says that these life stages or these three levels that we talked about are the levels of attaining selfhood. That is, that selfhood is an achievement, not that it is a given human nature, but that it is an achievement. Not that a self*-realized soul is simply that way because that is his nature, but because he has achieved that stage through... He's developed to that stage through consciously...



Prabhupāda: Without any endeavor he'll achieve?



Śyāmasundara: No, no. That he has, with great endeavor, intelligently and consciously achieved that stage. Not that he has without any endeavor got that stage. It is not natural stage, even...



Prabhupāda: So when that endeavor is made?



Śyāmasundara: It is made passing through these three stages of development.



Prabhupāda: That means this endeavor is possible in human form of life. Therefore we are preaching that the human form is especially meant for God realization. That is the first function of the human form of life. Not to act as animal. That is our (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: There are some philosophies such as the phenomenologists, they say that essence is prior to existence, but these existentialists say that existence is prior to essence; in other words, that by existing we come to our essence. We realize ourself by going through stages of different existence.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our theory, that we are struggling or transmigrating from different species of life, and when we come to the perfectional stage of living condition, human form of life, so then we understand what is the aim of life. So as spirit soul I am existing, and then, at my perfectional stage, I learn what is the essence of life. Essence of life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore existence is first, and then to understand the essence.



Śyāmasundara: Ah. He says the culmination of commitment is religious life, or he calls it the inwardness of suffering, that we...



*Prabhupāda: No. We don't follow that. Suffering, actually there is no suffering, because a spirit soul is different from the body. The same example: Just like when there is accident in the motorcar, the motor driver or the owner of the car is not actually suffering. But because he has identified his motorcar with himself, therefore he is suffering. Similarly, either you say God and all God's personal parts and parcels, the living entities, the spirit soul, he has no suffering. But the ordinary spirit soul, because he has identified himself with the matter, he suffers, whereas God, because He has full knowledge and is always apart from this material world, nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ, just like Bhagavad*-gītā. There is..., God has no suffering. It is a question of, just like the same example: In a motorcar I am sitting and my friend is sitting. There is some accident; the motorcar is lost. So this man who possesses the motorcar, he suffers, but I do not suffer. I am in the same car, but I do not suffer. What is the difference? The difference is that I have full knowledge that I am not this car, but he, being identified with the car, being ignorant, he is suffering. So it is a question of knowledge where there is suffering and no suffering.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. So penance and austerity, that it is not really suffering? What does suffering involve?



Prabhupāda: No, no. No suffering. Those who are advanced in knowledge, there is no suffering. Actually those who are spiritually advanced, if there is some bodily pain, he knows that "I am not this body. Why should I suffer? Let me do my duty. Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is advancement.



Śyāmasundara: Well, by this inwardness of suffering, he applies... The same principle, the same idea is there, that one goes on, and he risks...



Prabhupāda: Actually, suffering is due to ignorance, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That he risks serving God on his faith of...



Prabhupāda: There is no reason.



Śyāmasundara: ...and whatever...



Prabhupāda: Because he knows that "I am part and parcel of God. So my duty is to serve God." So where is the suffering?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Yeah.



*Prabhupāda: That is pleasure, serving God. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, just see, in the cottage. They are minister. They are ministers. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa*-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. They are living most aristocratically, and now they are taking the place of mendicants living in the cottage, no bodily comfort, no servants, nothing of the sort. Does it mean they are suffering? There is one... That is stated in the, that vande rūpa-sanātana, that they, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. They gave up as most insignificant this society, this aristocracy. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. It is... What is the value of this? Give up. And bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. And in order to become merciful to the mass of people, they accept simply loincloth, any way covering, that's all. That is a suffering? No. They are not suffering. Then people may say that that is suffering. But for them, there is a... Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur. Then he merged into the ocean, in the thought that how gopīs, gopī-bhāva, they are transacting their business with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛta. That is a ocean of transcendental bliss. So because they're merged into that ocean, what is this suffering? They have no sense of suffering. One man is suffering because he has identified with this body, he is suffering. But they were identified with the cause of the gopīs. They are simply writing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with gopīs, Vidagdha-mādhava, Lalitā-mādhava, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. They are simply engaged in thoughts of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs and writing, writing, writing. So what is the suffering? Other fools may think, "Oh this man was minister. He was so comfortably situated. Now they have taken this cloth and they've no home, no food, nothing of this..." They are thinking that is suffering, but they are not suffering. They are not suffering. They are enjoying.



Śyāmasundara: I think that's the difference between the Christian emphasis and Kṛṣṇa consciousness...



Prabhupāda: Because it's simply mental speculation. There is no basis.



Śyāmasundara: The Christian monks, ascetics, they always thought that the life they were giving up, they were suffering, always that feeling...



Prabhupāda: Poor fund of knowledge, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: Anyway, to go on...



Prabhupāda: And they have developed this philosophy and this Bible, after the demise of Jesus Christ. More or less it is concoction.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the opposite of faith is sin, that sin is the same as despair. Sin and despair are the same.



*Prabhupāda: Well, unless you have got complete sense of God, there is no question of sin or piety. Because if you do not know what is the standard of sin and piety... Just like the same example can be given that in this India*-Pakistan war, that party killed so many men and this party killed so many men on the other side. When you take killing as sin, but it's piety. From their side it is piety; from our side it is piety. So how these sinful activities or pious activities are considered? To satisfy the higher authorities.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He means faith in the orders of God; the opposite of that.



Prabhupāda: It is not a question of faith, it is a question of fact. Then it is, the same example, just like Arjuna. He decided to become nonviolent in the beginning, but at the end he decided to fight and kill. Now which is piety and which is sinful? Actually, this decision to kill by the order of Kṛṣṇa is piety, because he satisfies the higher authorities. So in this material world we concoct that "This is sinful, this is piety," but actual sinful and piety is decided on the order of the Supreme God. That is (indistinct). So if you have no connection with God, so our these thoughts of sinful and piety, they are simply mental concoction. It has no value.



Śyāmasundara: He says that faith in the order of God, that is piety.



Prabhupāda: Then you must have order of God. Unless you have no conception of God, where is the question of order? If God is impersonal, He cannot speak, He has no mouth, He has no tongue, He has no eyes, He has..., where is the question of order?



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that Jesus is the standard.



Prabhupāda: But that's all right. Then there is no Christian. Jesus Christ's first order is "Thou shall not kill," and they're killing, simply killing. Then where is Christians? There is no Christian.



Śyāmasundara: So he calls the modern Christianity the "sickness unto death," because he says...



Prabhupāda: In the other words, we say there is no Christian.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that modern Christianity is sick. It is sickness unto death, he calls it.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If he accepts Jesus as the perfection, why doesn't he, in the beginning when he was looking for a way of making decisions, why doesn't he follow Jesus's path of morality?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he does. He does. He's just describing the philosophers describing...



Prabhupāda: He's coming to the point of religion.



Śyāmasundara: Yeah. He comes to the point. He says that modern Christianity is despairing, and they are becoming sick.



*Prabhupāda: Then why not say not Christian? Modern Christianity... Christianity is Christianity. You cannot make it "modern" and "past." You cannot say "God modern" and "God past." That is not good philosophy. You say there is Christianity or no Christianity. So our system is that if we do not follow the tenets of some religious principle, then how you can claim you belong to that religion? That is applicable everywhere. Just like the so*-called Hindus, they did not believe anything, and they are passing on as Hindus, as brāhmaṇas, as (indistinct). That is just passing.



Śyāmasundara: At the time he was writing... [break] At the time he was philosophizing, Europe was in a very sad state of affairs, and everyone was trying to commit suicide. It was the..., in vogue. So he said that because Christianity is sinning, they are sinning despite their knowledge of what is right, then they come to the point of despair, and they are trying to kill themselves even though they know that Christianity says that we are immortal, that you cannot kill yourself. So he says that suicide is no answer to...



Prabhupāda: Christianity believes in the immortality of the soul?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So for Christians, suicide is no answer to escape their sinning or their despair. So he says...



Prabhupāda: You have committed so many sinful activities, and simply by killing you are trying to escape. In that way you are committing another sin. You are committing another sin. Therefore these persons who commit suicide, they become ghosts.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that we must live as if at any moment we may die, so that at the last moment we must be fully absolved of all sins. We must be fully authentic at the last moment. So he says that we must live as if we were going to die at any moment.



Prabhupāda: That is not possible. If you don't practice, it is not possible to understand at the last moment.



Śyāmasundara: No. That's what he means. We must practice it so that as if thinking any time we may die, so we must practice being absolved of sin.



Prabhupāda: That is practically being done by our movement. We are teaching our students to chant always Hare Kṛṣṇa, without any stopping. So death may come at any moment, but if we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is happy death.



Devotee: The Christians have this philosophy that at the time of death, if a priest is there he can give you absolution at your deathbed, and then you can be saved from all your sins.



Prabhupāda: But provided I have got consciousness to understand the words of the priest.



Devotee: Even if you commit sinful activities all your life, if he is there at your deathbed then you can be saved from your sins.



*Prabhupāda: That is quite possible, you see, because he can remind you. But at the time of death, when everything is stopped, the functions of the body, kapha, pitta, vāyu, therefore Kulaśekhara says that "Let me die immediately." Actually, natural death means I will be encumbered with so many things, natural disturbance of this body, the disturbance, they'll be choked up, and cough, mucus, so many things. So unless one is practiced, it is not possible. Therefore practice is required from the very beginning*-austerity, penance, brahmacārī, celibacy, like that. These things have to be practiced.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that faith is the self willing to be the self, willing to be itself*-the self willing to be itself. This is faith, or authenticity.



Prabhupāda: What is this willing to be itself?



Śyāmasundara: That the self is willing to be itself. That's what he calls faith.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To be itself and not something else.



Śyāmasundara: Just like we might say surrender. The self wills...



Prabhupāda: There is no question of surrender. To become self, that is the Māyāvādī, that I become one with the Supreme Self.



Śyāmasundara: No. He means as a part and parcel of God, because he says, "Faith is the self willing to be itself, authenticity, and to stand transparently..."



Prabhupāda: Then it can be understood that I am part and parcel of the Supreme. So when I remain as part and parcel, that is called faith.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. When I surrender to the idea that I am part and parcel of God, then I am...



*Prabhupāda: So that surrender to the idea means, the same example, that a part and parcel of my body, they are engaged in the service of the body. So as soon as you engage yourself in the service of the Lord, that is your self*-realization. That is perfect self-realization. Because you remain in your position, your position as part and parcel of the Supreme is to serve Him, practically. So if you engage yourself always in the service of the Lord, that is self-realization. There is no other philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: He says that in a way because he said that at this stage one stands transparently before God, and this is his integrity, when he realizes his...



*Prabhupāda: Transparently before God means to be engaged in His service. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching that way. They are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, twenty*-four hours; *therefore they are self*-realized. They are standing on their self. That is mukti. That is liberated. And those who are, these karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis, they are not engaged in the self. They are trying to realize self. Therefore all these students, or the disciples of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are liberated persons, because they are acting as such. So everyone should join this movement and become liberated, immediately. You preach like that. Try to understand and preach.



Śyāmasundara: They say that this is an authentic position, that it...



Prabhupāda: This is authentic position. We are serving Kṛṣṇa. This is authentic position. My position is part and parcel, to serve Kṛṣṇa. So actually I am engaged in service of Kṛṣṇa. That is my authentic position. This authentic position is at the present moment a little confused. But that now I am liberated, healthy, so if I continue healthy, that is my real position. Then I will keep always my self healthy. That's all. There is no change.



Śyāmasundara: And also this word integrity is there. It means integrated, or complete.



Prabhupāda: The more you become practiced to Kṛṣṇa's service, the more you are established, integrated. You don't fall down. Yes.



*Śyāmasundara: So when someone has integrity, you can see that they are one*-minded.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are. Our concern is Kṛṣṇa. At ārati, we stand before Kṛṣṇa. The integrity is that Kṛṣṇa is the shelter. We are all serving, chanting Kṛṣṇa, ārati, someone is chanting, someone is dancing. The center is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, when you go to preach, when you write books, when you go to the play, the center is Kṛṣṇa. Then all our activities are on the platform of liberation.



Śyāmasundara: The idea is there also in this philosophy, that all of us know what is the real position, but that either due to weakness or a poor fund of knowledge or defiance...



Prabhupāda: Therefore we require guidance of the spiritual master so that we may not fall down.



Śyāmasundara: ...or defiance, sometimes due to, even though we know the real position, we defy it, then we become sinful.



Prabhupāda: Defiance, there is no question. If you are actually engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, where is the question of defiance?



*Śyāmasundara: Well, he is talking about someone who may know what is the law of God, but he defies it. Someone who wants to sinfully act. Either due to weakness or defiance we sin, but he says that the self*-integrated personality is willing to be himself. He surrenders to what his real position is. This is called self-realization.



*Prabhupāda: No. This self-realization practically*-to be self means to remain as part and parcel, to serve.



Śyāmasundara: He says that full self equals full will. That when we are fully ourself, then we are fully willed.



Prabhupāda: What you mean? That is Māyāvādī. Full self, what is that? Then what is the question of part and parcel?



Śyāmasundara: That means when we make decisions that they are...



Prabhupāda: You cannot make decision. If you are part and parcel, then you have to take decisions from the whole. You cannot make. The finger does not make decision. I say "Finger, stand up like this, please."



*Śyāmasundara: So just like when there are decisions to be made, because a self*-realized soul automatically...



Prabhupāda: The decision is that I shall serve Kṛṣṇa as soon as ordered. But the order comes from the superior. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is ordered by Kṛṣṇa to fight, so he has to fight. That is all. Arjuna's decision was wrong, but when he takes decision from Kṛṣṇa, that is right. So we have to take decision from Kṛṣṇa's representative. That is right. We cannot make our own decisions. That is wrong.



Śyāmasundara: So full will means to follow...



Prabhupāda: Full will means full will to surrender, full will to follow the orders of the superior. That is full will.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how does he ever come to the point of religion if he wants men to make their own decisions? How can we make our own decisions according to him?



Prabhupāda: There is no own decision. If we want to become self, that means I am part and parcel, so I have no personal decision. I have to take decisions from the higher authority.



Śyāmasundara: We were talking about the decision; you were talking about the other levels. The religious stage, you said, is obedience and commitment to God.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But to get to that stage, you have to go through the second stage. So how do you get to the second stage by making your own decisions without God's..., without God's representative? In other words, how can you come to the platform of the third stage from the second stage?



Śyāmasundara: It is gradual development. You gradually develop.



Prabhupāda: Why gradual development? Here Kṛṣṇa says, the Supreme Self, "Surrender unto Me. I give you all protection." Why gradual? Immediate.



Śyāmasundara: He is saying we are motivated by despair to come to this stage.



Prabhupāda: But there is no question. Christ says, or Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me, I'll save you," no more disappointment.



Devotee: I haven't heard in this philosophy yet where he has mentioned either guru or śāstra. How... [break]



Prabhupāda: ... dealing factually, scientifically.



Śyāmasundara: You said (indistinct) just the opposite. You said, "Keep me talking. That is my life."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a fact. Sa vai puṁsām... Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa*-padāravindayoḥ vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane [SB 9.4.18]. That is Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, the great saintly king. About him it is described, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ. He engaged completely, twenty-four hours, his mind unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. And vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane, and he engaged his talking simply on Vaikuṇṭha, on the subject matter of Vaikuṇṭha, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Prahlāda Mahārāja also speaks like that: tad vijñā, tad vijñā sa (indistinct). Glorifying, he is very (indistinct). So they have no conception of God, and whatever you believe, (indistinct). So God is imperson, He is not a person, so where is the (indistinct)? So they come to the (indistinct), scientist, another politician, another this, (indistinct) and they want to become a hero eventually, "I am a great philanthropist," "I am a great nationalist," "I am greatest philosopher." That... And when they finish their talks, then become (indistinct). No more talks-finished. (Hindi) Prahlāda Mahārāja says that (indistinct). He says that śoce tato muni vimukha-cetasa(?): "I am simply thinking of these rascals who are without God consciousness." Tato muni (indistinct): "They are averse to God. I am thinking of them." Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. These rascals, simply for māyā-sukha, temporary happiness, they are busy, always running here and there for constructing hundred and fifty-stories' house, and bring your money for that. Very busy, very busy. Just like Mr. Birla, he's always busy, (he) cannot see (you). They do not know that "What happiness I am creating?" (indistinct) Just at the end of my life (indistinct). As soon as I close my eyes and I go away from this body, all these things that I have created will be finished. I cannot remember, you cannot remember what was in your past life. But you are eternal, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. So suppose I was a king in my last life, I was another Birla, or Birla's servant, (indistinct). Suppose I was Jawaharlal Nehru, or Gandhi. So what benefit I am deriving now? Who is respecting me as Gandhi or Jawaharlal Nehru? (indistinct) Even I do not know that my photograph or statue is being worshiped. I do not know that. Such foolish persons. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato. Simply for illusory happiness you have created gigantic show of civilization and advancement of material life. Māyā-sukhāya. Everything will (indistinct) as soon as there is death." That's all. Simply wait for death and then finished. That's all. Finished. He cannot say that "Let me enjoy." Actually, one of my friends in Allahabad, he was dying at the age of fifty-four. I was also fifty-four. So he was begging the doctor, "Doctor, can you not give me four years' life? I have got some unfinished work. Let me finish." (laughter) Such unfinished work. Suppose if you (indistinct), what will he gain? But he does not know where he is going next life. But he is begging the doctor, "Please save me. I have got some plan; it is not yet finished." So all these rogues and fools, they are doing like that: "I have got some plan; it is not yet finished. Please allow me to live." Suppose you are waiting for another four or five years or ten, what achievement you are going to do? That they do not know. Vimūḍhān. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja has classified them as fools and rascals and rogues. That's all.



*Śyāmasundara: Kierkegaard, he considers that truth, it's true (indistinct) subjectivity*-personal, individual reflections...



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. That is another nonsense. Truth is true. Not that... I cannot fashion truth. This statement is nonsense. Truth is true. Fire is hot. That is true. If I imagine that fire is cold, is that philosophy? He does not prove. He does not know what is truth. One who does not know what is truth, therefore they imagine or manufacture truth. Just like Vivekananda, yata mata, Ramakrishna, yata mata tata patha, "You can manufacture your truth." That is going on. That is going on. The hippies, they are manufacturing their truth. So truth cannot be manufactured. Truth is truth. That is called absolute truth. Not relative truth, absolute truth. You can manufacture relative truth, but absolute truth is one: tattvaṁ phalaṁ yena (?), just like Bhāgavata says. Who is meditated upon? Who is worshiped? The Absolute Truth. So they have no knowledge of the absolute.



Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that...



Prabhupāda: All they know is the relative truth.



Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that passion, (indistinct) passion is truth.



Devotee: Sense activity. If my impulse is passionate nature.



Prabhupāda: But passion is working differently. Unless... Passion is all right, activity, but if you do not know the goal, then you are misled.



Devotee: This philosophy has been adopted by the hippies.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: The mode of passion is truth.



Prabhupāda: Passion is truth, that's all right. But the passion means activities. So where your activity will end? What is the purpose of the activity? You start your car, but if you do not know where to go, then what is the use of starting your car? Simply spoiling your energy and spoiling the petrol.



Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Spoiling the petrol.



Prabhupāda: That's all. They do not know where to go. Is that very good proposition: "I do not know, that doesn't matter; therefore I start my car"?



Śyāmasundara: Yeah.



Prabhupāda: Never mind if I meet with accident. That's all right.



Śyāmasundara: That's their philosophy, that it is not what is done or the object of the doing; it is how it is done. That is what they say. Not what is done but how it is done.



Prabhupāda: That is another foolish thing. Dog's obstinacy that is called. Dog's obstinacy. This philosophy is dog's obstinacy.



Devotee: He says that the normal state of man's condition is an anxious uncertainty, that a man is naturally anxiety and uncertain.



Prabhupāda: Uncertainty for them who do not know what is the end of life, the goal of life.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that this anxiety and uncertainty is displaced or replaced by the passion of truth or faith.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. These modern economic concept, they think that this anxiety is the impetus for economic development. They also say like that. Just like in America especially, they are never satisfied. They are manufacturing another machine, another machine, another machine. That hankering after another, another, they think it is really progress. In one sense it is all right, all right, but the attempt should be made, when there is goal. Just like you know how to rise up to the 102nd story that Empire Building. Now they're going step by step, and you know that "I have not completed the step, that I will go further, further, all right," but you know that "I have to go to 102nd story." But if you do not know, this is simply waste of energy. Or you should take the path of mahājana, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Even you do not know where to go, you have seen somebody is going up, so you follow him. You follow him. That is also nice. Even you do not know what is the goal, you see that this man, who is first*-class, he has followed this path. So if you follow him, mahājano yena gataḥ sa, that is all right. That is also firm, fixed up. Unless you know the goal, the fixed-up point, then your energy may be misused, misguided. The passion, the energy, will be misguided.



*Śyāmasundara: His idea ultimately is that that point should be God, that energy is used towards reaching God, through Christ. And he says the in*-between stage...



Prabhupāda: Then he is right. If the ultimate goal is God and God should be known through Jesus Christ, that is a good proposal.



*Śyāmasundara: And he says the in*-between stage, this stage is (indistinct), in-between stage is...



Prabhupāda: Why if you know that through Jesus Christ, God can be reached...



Śyāmasundara: That is a higher stage he talks about. He is talking about three levels of existence. In the lower stage, there are... Anyway. The second stage is that they fix one point, no matter whether that point is the highest or not, at least there is a point fixed, and they'll act towards that point, like the piety...



Prabhupāda: That means the other two stages simply spoiling time.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. They advance slowly toward that stage of God realization.



Prabhupāda: So why not take immediately, directly?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That is what he is recommending.



*Prabhupāda: So that is our process. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā, in the Vedas, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If actually you want to know the highest goal of your life, he must approach guru. That is the (indistinct). In the Bhagavad-gītā, also it is said, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. You try to understand the highest truth by surrendering, praṇipātena, by serving, by giving service; tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā, by inquiring. In Bhāgavata also, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. If you are actually inquisitive to understand the highest truth, then you must surrender yourself to the guru. That is the (indistinct). Not that by experience I go on, go on, go on, being baffled here, there, here, there, then automatically... No. You may not come even to the right path by such experience. Just like on an ocean, if you do not know direction, the path ship, how you will direct your ship this way, that way? You can go on this way, sometimes this way, that way, this way, that way, then you will be lost. You will be lost. All your endeavors will be simply baffled. You must have the direction; therefore the captain keeps that, what is called, compass: "Just here I am going to the this side." Actually, when I was coming...



Devotee: On the ship?



Prabhupāda: Yes. They were calculating (indistinct) immediately, "Now we are here. Now we are in Mediterranean, Italy, this that." I was asking. I was very inquisitive. But actually you (indistinct). By the compass and by the map, they are coming to the right direction. The captain's business is this. They have got different types of maps, and the compass.



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Everything is there. The captain ordered, "Now turn the wheel this way. Stop the wheel this way." So therefore (indistinct). Otherwise he's nonsense. (indistinct) captain. If he has got the (indistinct) and everything, "Just go on this way." (laughter)



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: Later existentialists, though, they said existential means that right now at any given moment, whatever I do is completely independent of all other sources, and I am just like a ship without a rudder; whatever I do is another path of action. At any given moment I can go any direction. And as soon as you have any idea that there is a God, then that is no longer existential; that is putting a direction on something which is actually (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: What is that existence? Foolishly driving? Does that mean existence cannot mean foolishly driving?



Devotee: (indistinct) existentialists, they talk like that.



Śyāmasundara: But this Kierkegaard, he was living in last century, he was prior to the modern existentialists, so he was still thinking about God. He came before God (indistinct). His final thought is that..., the final idea is that thought should be separated from existence, because existence cannot be thought, but it must be lived; that the thought process should be separated from the existing process or the acting process.



Prabhupāda: Our process is already guided (?). (indistinct). Just like in university if you want to be a doctorate in philosophy, three other big philosophers are appointed to guide you, and then you present your thesis. But these people are thinking without any guidance, (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: He says that the (indistinct) must come from Christ ultimately...



Prabhupāda: Then they're accepting some (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But his emphasis is on the acting part, not the...



Prabhupāda: Guidance is (indistinct), then where is different thought? What is that? If the guidance is one, then thought must be on the same relation as different thought.



Śyāmasundara: But he makes this statement that "The difference between God and man can be discerned in that God does not think; He creates. God does not exist; He is eternal. Man thinks..."



Prabhupāda: But He's eternal, He does not exist? What is this? What is that nonsense? He's eternal, He does not exist.



*Śyāmasundara: He's thinking that the word "existence" as meaning something that becomes something else*-developing, growing, that is existence. And in that sense God is eternal because He does not become anything else, He's always...



Prabhupāda: Then He's perfect. Your existence means you are trying to be perfect. You are making progress from one state to another.



Śyāmasundara: Becoming something else.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So their existence means to..., the process of becoming perfect. Is it?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Whereas God is already perfect.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So He does not in the same way exist, but He...



*Prabhupāda: So if that is his philosophy, then why not take the direction from God, Bhagavad*-gītā? Why you are making experiments from this platform to that platform? Why you are wasting time in that way? If he agrees that God is eternal, existing, perfect, then why don't you take direct from God, or God's representative? Why you are making experiment?



Śyāmasundara: He also recommends that. He says in this case he's simply formalized the difference between God and man, that God does not have to think; He creates. He does not think; He creates.



*Prabhupāda: So he (indistinct) if God is omnipotent, all*-powerful, as soon as... That we also say, Vedas, that He doesn't require to make plan how to do things.



Śyāmasundara: No. It just comes.



*Prabhupāda: Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. His energies are so perfect and subtle, as soon as He thinks, "Let there be creation," immediately everything perfectly done. That is God. So if God is perfect in that way, then we should take guidance from God and mold our lives. That is perfect leader. That we are doing. We have taken Bhagavad-gītā, the words of God, and guide, that is the guide, and we are following. Therefore our principle, our process is perfect. We don't make any experiments for perfection. Take. Just like a teacher, if he shows that you write "A" like this, that is perfect. That's all. Why should I go on, lifelong, just like this child is doing, this scientist. No. But if he takes guide from his teacher, he immediately teaches, "Make this one like this, one like this, one like that. Three lines makes 'A'." Immediately. And he'll go on, lifelong, like this, like that-he'll never come to God. Nobody will like. So their process is like this. You go on like this-existential*-one problem, one problem, one problem, go on. But he does not know "If I continue in this way millions of lives, I will never come to perfection," unless the teacher shows, "Do like this." That is their foolishness. Ciraṁ vicinvan. That is described, athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam [SB 10.14.29]. One can understand the truth, simply one who has got a little, little, fractional portion of Your mercy, he knows the truth. Others, athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśa. Prasāda means mercy; *leśa, "a little fragment of Your mercy." One who has this, jānāti tattvam, he knows the truth. Others, na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan. Eko 'pi. There are many mental speculators, philosophers, all of them, if they go on thinking like that for life after life, they will never understand. Simply waste time. That's all. So why not try to have a little fraction of mercy of Kṛṣṇa? And Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] "Simply by devotional service one can understand Me." So why not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately? That is perfection. That is perfectional stage. Why should he speculate and be misguided by your so*-called (sic:) existentional person?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. I see what he's saying now. He's saying that our existence as men, man's existence, continually becoming something else, separates thought from our being, our actions, so that there is always a gap between the two, so that we're always becoming something. But when we are united, thought and being are united, then we cease to become.



Prabhupāda: Why don't you unite? Why don't you unite? Why refusing to unite? God is conversing, "Unite with Me. Yes. Surrender unto Me. I'll fix up. What is (indistinct)?" If that is the perfection, (indistinct), why don't you unite? That "You surrender unto Me," that is the difficulty. "You keep your individualism, I keep My individualism, but you surrender unto Me," then it is (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: That unifies thought and being together.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the only way.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That seems to be the only way that thought and being can actually be united.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you surrender to God.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Otherwise the thought will always be different from the action.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kierkegaard, actually, he understands the principles, but he actually understands that one has to surrender to God in order to (indistinct).



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. He does. His statement is that "We are here as shown a new order, faith(?), a new pre*-supposition that consciousness is (indistinct), a new decision, a learning, and a new teacher, God, in time." That is Christ. Christ is so-called "God in time." So he prefers Christ as the teacher.



Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa not teacher?



Śyāmasundara: Maybe they're not so personal as we are. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: All right. It is better to accept Christ as teacher, but why he does not follow? So all philosophers have been following these commandments of Christ, ten commandments. They are not following.



Śyāmasundara: No. That's all. [break]



Prabhupāda: ...Caitanya Mahāprabhu, simply we think like this, with Christ. And (indistinct) another thing, against God. Simply (indistinct) say that "I am Christian. We are following Christ."



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. But doing all nonsense against the instruction of Christ. So what is the use of such philosopher, and (indistinct)? Act.



Devotee: Prabhupāda, before I was going to Vietnam, I did not want to go. I went to a Catholic priest and I brought this Bible, and I said to him, "It says here, that 'Thou shalt not kill,' and yet you are saying that I should go and kill." And he said, "Yes. You should go anyway." He just said, "You should go anyway." No reason, no explanation, just "You go anyway and kill."



Prabhupāda: Just see.



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We saw a very interesting thing yesterday, myself and Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa. We were reading in the Time magazine that there is a big fight going on in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics. Now the Pope and, I think, the Archbishop of Canterbury...



Prabhupāda: Yes, the Archbishop of Canterbury.



*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The two of them have been trying to work together to come out with a statement which will satisfy both Churches according to the scriptures. So Time magazine reports that after one and a half years of laborious work, they have finally come out with a 2,500*-word statement, but the Pope said that this should not be taken as the Church teachings but should only be used for consideration. That means that after spending so much time, and still (indistinct). He said it should not be taken as a teaching, as a scripture.



Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of giving it?



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: If people are the ultimate persons to consider, then what is the use of his giving this statement? He is not authority.



Śyāmasundara: That Archbishop of Canterbury, he is a good friend of Mr. (indistinct). They went to school together, and he says that in college they used to jog together. That was their favorite pastime. (laughter) Now he is archbishop.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: And Brahmānanda sent me that picture, Africa, five thousand priests in that hospital, on account of their drinking habits.



Devotee: Five thousand!



Prabhupāda: Five thousand. In America. [break] ...as soon as I cut with knife, the same blood is coming. Here also the same blood is coming. He is also crying, he is also crying. All these things are (indistinct). Then how do you say that this man has got soul and this animal has not got soul? Where is analogy? And points of similarities are there. Analogy means points of similarity. So the points of similarity, while killing either a man or animal, are all the same, then how are you bringing this analogy that he has got soul, he hasn't got soul? Where is his logic?



Devotee: (indistinct) illogic is the fact that they'll go out and (indistinct) (end)





SCHOPENHAUER.SYA



Arthur Schopenhauer



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. His philosophy is exactly the opposite of Hegel's rational, optimistic world order. His philosophy is often referred to as the philosophy of pessimism. And actually, he was a neurotic bachelor who lived alone with his dog, and he was known for his sexual indulgence and scandalous behavior.



Prabhupāda: And he was a philosopher?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. The philosophy of pessimism. He says that reality is...



Prabhupāda: So why was he fond of dog? Pessimism? He found some value in dog?



Śyāmasundara: He says that reality is blind and irrational and capricious, or whimsical, and that actually life is an evil situation.



Prabhupāda: So how he is to establish his philosophy if everything is whimsical, irrational? How he will convince others if he is irrational and irresponsible? How he will make progress in his philosophical proposition?



Śyāmasundara: He figures his...



Prabhupāda: Man is called a rational animal. Although animal, it is rational. So how his irrational philosophy will be accepted by a rational animal?



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't believe in rationality at all. Everything is..., no matter how hard we try to be rational, our plans are always upset. There is always some flaw to our reasoning.



Prabhupāda: Your reasoning may be full of flaws, that is the same thing. But why do you think others also reasoning will be with flaws?



*Śyāmasundara: He was the first Western philosopher to read some of the Vedas. He read Bhagavad*-gītā and other Vedic scriptures. So he concluded that all phenomenon are mere illusions, or māyā. He uses that word māyā. This world is simply illusory.



*Prabhupāda: That also we say, but it is not irrational. There is rationality. There is regulation. The sun is moving, the moon is moving*-not irrationally, quite in order. Everything is in order. We cannot say it is irrational.



Śyāmasundara: Just like all of our desires that we have are never fulfilled.



Prabhupāda: That will never take place. Just like in a prison house, if the prisoners desire something, no, it will never furnish it. It is meant for punishment. So he'll have to abide by the desires of the jail superintendent. He cannot. Similarly, here every living entity is a prisoner. The superintendent of prisons is Durgā Devī. Durgā means fort: you cannot go out, conditioned. So therefore frustration is the law here.



Śyāmasundara: Yeah, he points that out.



*Prabhupāda: So, but the thing is, that one should be rational that why there is frustration here? That "why" question is answered in the Vedānta*-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now it is spoiled. Kenopaniṣad. Why? That is the rationality. I don't want to be frustrated, but I am forced to be frustrated. I don't want to die, but I am forced to die. I don't want to become old, I am forced to become old. Now this rationality must be awakened to why this is happening. That is what is required. Nature is working in that way so that I may be intelligent to inquire "Why?" Then there will be question, and by questioning and answering through bona fide spiritual master, we'll come to the conclusion that what is the aim of this world.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this world is composed of two parts: idea and will. That the ideas are sense experiences that we perceive in the world, and they are mere representatives of the will, but the will is the ultimate reality.



Prabhupāda: That idea is illusion.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But he says that will is the ultimate reality. Something is...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, will is ultimate reality, we also admit. Because we desire, we will like this. We will that we shall be enjoyer of the material world. Idea was that "I shall become like Kṛṣṇa." This was the idea, and therefore I will. And Kṛṣṇa gave us chance, "All right, you come here and fulfill your desire." So they are implicated in so many karma, and becoming more and more involved. So according to karma he is getting different types of body, and there is no end. It is going on.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, he says that the will is eternal, and it is always incarnated in one body after another. But he describes it as a force...



Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a force.



Śyāmasundara: ...an impersonal force.



*Prabhupāda: Impersonal or personal, that will be discussed later on. First of all there is force, and he is being forced. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. He had associated with one of the modes of material nature, and as such he is being forced to act according to the nature. Just like you met your friend, she is forced. Nobody likes that, a wretched life, but she is forced, because she has associated with a certain material modes of nature. Just like these hippies, they are forced. They are coming from respectable family, there is no scarcity of money, and still they are lying on the street in wretched dress, wretched habits. So that this nature is forcing, "You do this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. Because he has associated with a certain type of quality of the nature, he will be forced. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa*-saṅgasya sad-asad-yoni janmasu. The different types of species of life, the cause is kāraṇam, cause, is guṇa-saṅgasya. As he is associating with the material qualities.



Śyāmasundara: But is this force irrational and blind? This is what he thinks.



Prabhupāda: No, this is not irrational. That will. You desire, you will like that, and as soon as you will, immediately material nature is helpful: "Yes, take this help," and you take the help and we are forced.



Śyāmasundara: Supposing I will for some sense object... [break] Shall we begin?



Prabhupāda: Mm.



Śyāmasundara: Yesterday we were discussing that Schopenhauer's idea that the world is basically an evil place. So he says that there are three means of salvation from this basically evil world. The first means he calls aesthetic salvation, or contemplation of higher ideas which transport us above passion, just like poetry, music, art. By contemplating these higher ideas, you become absent of desire. Desire drops away, and you become transported to a higher plane of not willing, above our will.



*Prabhupāda: That is mentioned in Bhagavad*-gītā. It is not a new thing. It is called paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59], and actually it is happening. Just like my students, so their former life and this life. They have given up their former abominable life because they have got better life, better thoughts, better philosophy, better eating, everything better. So mind can accommodate something. If you always fill up the mind with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so there is no chance of the mind being filled up with any other nonsense. That is our philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: This means of salvation called aesthetic...



Prabhupāda: This is salvation, because they are saved from the four kinds of sinful life: illicit sex, meat eating, intoxication and gambling. Because they have got better engagement, they don't like to do this.



Śyāmasundara: He is referring here to art, poetry.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is there. Here is art*-we are painting. Our students are painting nice pictures. Art. And poetry, all our Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavatam are full of poetries.



Śyāmasundara: He is describing an experience of someone in the material world who sees a nice painting.



Prabhupāda: Mm.



*Śyāmasundara: They transcend the lower levels of consciousness, and for a few moments they become will*-less or desireless.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that we admit. We agree also. So we do not want to keep them for a few moments, but we want to keep them continually in that consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: This aesthetic salvation...



Prabhupāda: (aside:) Where is Rūpānuga? Inform them that we will come.



Śyāmasundara: This aesthetic salvation is only possible momentarily. Contemplation of poetry and art and music, these are...



Prabhupāda: No, that is possible. Just like practice. A child is practiced to play, but if he is constantly practiced to read and write, he becomes educated. So not momentary. It is a practice. If you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then other consciousness will automatically vanish.



Śyāmasundara: But he is describing only one type of salvation, called aesthetic salvation, where one transcends the normal state of desire by seeing art or hearing music or poetry. Only this momentary transcendence.



Prabhupāda: So why momentary? It can continue perpetually.



Śyāmasundara: By seeing pictures and art...



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You see Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa picture, you see the Deity, well-dressed Deity, artistically, flowers. So always see. Why momentary?



Śyāmasundara: So even aesthetically, one can have permanent salvation.



*Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Aesthetic with a*-I mean to say-solid program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is all goodness. You find whatever the so-called philosophers will describe, we have got already there. Already there. If you say aesthetic salvation, this is aesthetic salvation. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. To worship the Deity. And you cannot derive benefit unless the aesthetic sense is applied to the higher authority, with reverence and respect. That is wanted.



Śyāmasundara: So he sees the second type of salvation from this basically evil existence...



Prabhupāda: That salvation he prescribes in the beginning, that is temporary salvation.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So this type of salvation called ethical salvation is permanent.



*Prabhupāda: It is not salvation. It is for the time being. It is called sasana(?)*-vairāgya. Sasana-vairāgya means just like a man dies, somebody dies, so his relative takes him to the crematorium or the burning place. So at that time he gets little renouncement, "Oh, this is the end of life. Why you are struggling?" And again, as soon as he comes from the crematorium, he begins again, the same thing. He forgets that he has to die. You see? So this kind of sasana-vairāgya will not help. Actually this is not salvation.



Śyāmasundara: He says it's only momentary.



Prabhupāda: Momentary. So no, we want to give actual salvation, perpetually aesthetic ideas about Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: He is describing three types of salvation. That was the first type, momentary. The second type he calls ethical salvation. He says that because the aim of our life is the final satisfaction of the will, after which no more desires will arise, this being our aim of life...



*Prabhupāda: That means the supreme will. He does not know that. Satisfy the supreme will. Just like father wants to do something, his son, his spiritual master or the teacher want. So yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **. Our philosophy is to please the supreme, the spiritual master, the representative of God or God. That means supreme will. Not my will, but the supreme will. That is highest perfection. That is salvation. Just like a person who is working under the guidance of a superior man, actually they do so. Just like in factories there is a foreman. So ordinary workers, they are working, but the foreman is giving direction. Similarly, that means he is fulfilling the desires of the superior. He is not doing whimsically. He is doing according to the direction of the superior man present there. So this is the philosophy, that if you can satisfy the supreme will, then you are liberated. Just like Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is supreme will, order. If you can fulfill this, then your salvation.



Śyāmasundara: He says that immorality comes about through egoism, so that I...



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you think, that "Why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is also a person, I am also a person. Why He is demanding?" Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan said, sophistry: "It is too much that one person is demanding that 'You give up everything and surrender unto Me.' " So these rascals, they cannot understand that to surrender to the supreme will, to satisfy the supreme will, that is salvation. That is salvation.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this egoism, or this desire, is crushed through love and sympathy for others.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Without love, nothing can sustain. If I do not love Kṛṣṇa I cannot surrender. It is not possible. Just like a small child, he is naturally surrendered to the parents because there is love. The child loves also the parents. So without the basic principle of love, the more you love, the more the surrender is also perfect. Just like a small child, you slap the child, he's crying, yet crying also with the words, "Mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy," because there is love. Even in distress the child cannot forget. That is natural. Similarly, when you remain fully surrendered to the supreme will, either in distress or in happiness, that is your happiness. That is real happiness. This condition cannot be without love. In any condition, you remain surrendered. It cannot be done without love. When there is lack of love, this kind of mentality cannot develop: "In any condition I shall remain surrendered." Just like you are; you are, a whole society is carrying my order, not because I am superior person. There is love. Without love you cannot do so. You have got some bit of love for me, therefore you carry my order. Otherwise it is not possible. And I cannot also. You are foreigners, you are. Americans, I came from another country, I have no account. I cannot also order you: "You must do it, otherwise I will chastise you." Because there is love. It is a connection of love. I can also become bold enough to chastise you, but you also, what, in whatever condition, you carry my order due to the basic principle is love. And our whole philosophy is love. We are just trying to learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, that's all. So without the basic principle of love, these things cannot be conceived.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that we must love those who are suffering. If we love those who are suffering, then we lose our desire.



Prabhupāda: That is... Why you should love the suffering and not those who are enjoying?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says everyone is suffering.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually we say actually everyone is suffering. Anyone who is under the condition of material nature, he is suffering. That is real love. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. Vaiṣṇava is described as the deliverer of all the fallen souls. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. Vaiṣṇava... Just like why have you taken sannyāsa? You are going... Why, what is the meaning of preaching. You are not going to preach for earning some money. Money you can earn. Just like Mukunda, when he was here he could not earn, now he is earning some money. So not for money you have taken sannyāsa, but for sympathy of the others. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, they took sannyāsa, gave up. Government said, "Why?" Out of love for the mass of people. Lokānāṁ hita*-kāriṇau. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Being compassionate to the poor fellows, those who are simply wasting their time like cats and dogs, just to show them some sympathy, the sannyāsa order is there. Just to inform them that "This is not your life. Here is life: be Kṛṣṇa conscious." This is sympathy.



Śyāmasundara: He says that sympathy is really...



Prabhupāda: They are suffering from want of knowledge. In ignorance they are suffering. Therefore this is sympathy, to the suffering. They are thinking, "Oh, because I have got a nice car I am happy." But actually he is not happy. You see? So he may think, out of ignorance he may think, "I have got a nice car, I have got a nice apartment, I have got a nice girlfriend, so I am happy." But actually he is not happy. He is suffering. So this is sympathy. You have taken sannyāsa, you are going to preach, (indistinct), being compassionate with the suffering. That is utilizing. Because you love Kṛṣṇa and they are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so you know that they are suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore you are going to preach. This is the position.



Śyāmasundara: He says that real love means sympathy, not sex life.



Prabhupāda: No, sex life is animal. That is not love; that is lust. We always repeatedly say, sex life is lust. That is not love. Here is real love, that "They are suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us do something so that they may understand the values of life." Here is love. Sex, simply means you satisfy your senses and the other party satisfies her senses. That is sex. That is lust. You are lusty, she is lusty, that is all. There is no love. That is going on in the name of love. Rascaldom. That is not love. It is lust; they do not know it. Lusty thing has been accepted as love. Mistake. Bhrama, pramāda. Bhrama, mistake. Illusion. Illusion is accepted as something else. Lust is accepted as love. This is illusion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that permanent happiness comes about when we lose our desire to live, when we deny the will to live.



Prabhupāda: That is frustration. That is frustration. That is suicide. Just like one man, who is very much suffering, he does not find any other means, then he cuts his own throat or hangs himself or takes some poison. It is like this.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose now I am desiring to live so much that I am always...



Prabhupāda: You desire or you not desire, that is because you, foolishly, you do not know that you have to live, desire or not desire, because you are eternal. You have to live. But if you don't live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will have to live in abominable condition like cats, hogs, dogs, trees, like that. We have to live. The modern civilization, they do not know that. The tree is also living, I am also living. So why these two different conditions are there? I am living, we are living, every one of us is living eternally, but according to our karma, according to our work, fruitive activities, we are getting different bodies. But we have to live. There is no question of not living.



Śyāmasundara: No, but there's a will...



Prabhupāda: Just like rascal, one who does not know, he commits suicide. He thinks that "If I commit suicide, then everything is finished." That is his ignorance. He is going to get another abominable body. Ghost. He becomes a ghost, so that he suffers more. A ghost means he has got subtle body, mental body, mind, intelligence and everything is there. Mind is there, intelligence, ego is there, but no gross body, so he cannot enjoy. That is ghostly life.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose I am bound up by the desire to live, so that I am always...



Prabhupāda: So you desire good desire, to live good. Change your desire. That is our program. Change your consciousness and live nicely with Kṛṣṇa. That is our program. We don't say, "You die." You live, but live with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you will become happy.



Śyāmasundara: So the will to live must not be denied.



Prabhupāda: You cannot do that. That is not possible. That is impossible. The same man who was doing all nonsense, and now they are mad after Kṛṣṇa. So will is there. Formerly he was willing to do all nonsense, now he is willing to serve Kṛṣṇa. So will is not vanished, but he has been engaged in a good willing process, that is all.



Śyāmasundara: Will can never be...



*Prabhupāda: No, not for a second. It is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Not for a second you can live without will. You must will. Because we are living.



Śyāmasundara: What about the Buddhists, who desire...



Prabhupāda: That... They do not believe in the soul. They have no idea.



*Śyāmasundara: They desire a state of non*-willingness. The Buddhists desire a state of no will.



Prabhupāda: No, their philosophy is that willingness is a symptom at a certain condition of material combination. So you dismantle this material condition so there will be no more willing or no more suffering. That is their philosophy. But that is not fact, that's not fact.



Śyāmasundara: You don't think it's possible to stop willing?



Prabhupāda: No, how it can be, because you are permanent, you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You do not die even after the destruction of this body, therefore thinking, feeling, willing... (aside:) Go and sleep. The thinking, feeling, willing actually carry you from this gross body to another gross body. How transmigration is taking place? Those who are, I mean to say, gross seer, they see that the body is dead, but he does not know the body is dead, but the willing is not dead. He is being carried away by the willing. That he has no eyes to see. He is simply seeing this gross body is dead, finished, but he has no eyes to see that this soul is now being carried away by the subtle body willing another body. According to his willing he gets another body, gross body, either demigod or dog, as he wills.



Śyāmasundara: As he wills.



Prabhupāda: Yes. At the time of death. Because will is the carrier.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose he wills nothing at the time of death?



*Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is not possible. Even in a dream you are willing so many things. The body is sleeping, completely stopped, but still why you are dreaming? [break] ...does not inquire about his ātma*-tattvam, self realization. Whatever he is acting is defeated, parābhava. He is not advancing.



*Śyāmasundara: He points out that whenever we gratify our desires, that is so*-called happiness, and whenever our desires are frustrated, that is suffering. But our desires are continuously frustrated, they are never satisfied. So he said that we are always suffering, and that the more intelligent a person is, the more he suffers.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Or by suffering, one's intelligence becomes manifested.



Śyāmasundara: Oh.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Suffering sharpens the intelligence?



Prabhupāda: Yes, adverse..., blessings of adversity. Just like a businessman, one, he loses some money in some attempt, he becomes more intelligent, that "This account, business, should not be done."



Śyāmasundara: I think yesterday Hegel described it in terms of conflict, that through conflict progress comes out.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So here is a perpetual conflict with māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. This is a fight against, māyā is putting impediments, what I think it is right, māyā is breaking it.



Śyāmasundara: That's what he sees in it, the irrational.



*Prabhupāda: Hitler's plan, Nazism, in so many ways, māyā has broke it into pieces. The Britishers, they also found the British empire, and māyā broke it. Roman empire... So, this frustration. But we are so fooled that in spite of repeated frustration, we are still trying to do the same thing. That is explained in the Bhāgavata, punaḥ punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed. Chewing the chewed. He has been frustrated in so many ways, in sexual life, divorce this wife, again another accept, another wife. So what is the another wife? The same thing, sex, but he is making he is (indistinct): "Now again another." That is very nicely experienced in your country. In a year, three times divorce, three times accepting. That is named carvita-carvaṇānām, chewing the chewed. He should have experienced that "I am changing, but what is the change? The same sex life. So what is the use of changing?" But he has no intelligence. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. His business has become like that.



Śyāmasundara: He says that because there is no end to our striving...



*Prabhupāda: There is end, provided... We can end everything, all these miscalculations, provided he goes to the right person. But that he will not go. He will become self*-made philosopher. He will not accept guru.



Śyāmasundara: So because of that, there is no measure for his suffering.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: He will suffer continually.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if a man who is diseased, suffering from so many symptoms, he should approach a physician. But if he wants to suffer without consultation of a physician, he will suffer until death. What can be done?



Śyāmasundara: He says that this will does not care for the individual's satisfaction, but only for the perpetuation of the species. For instance I have sex life; it is not satisfying to me personally, it simply perpetuates the species.



Prabhupāda: In all species there is sex life, so why...



Śyāmasundara: But it isn't satisfying ultimately. The satisfaction dwindles immediately afterward. So he says that this is a trick by the will just to perpetuate the species.



Prabhupāda: So why there is a trick?



Śyāmasundara: I think that by this sex life I will be satisfied. That is a trick of the will. I find I am not satisfied by it.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And simply the race goes on, the species goes on.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice; that's all right. He must be given a point, or a goal, that here he will be satisfied. Where is that goal?



Śyāmasundara: That goal, he says, it doesn't exist.



Prabhupāda: He does not know. That is his goal.



Śyāmasundara: He says... I'll read a statement of his. He says that "The will forces a person to remain alive, even when there is nothing for which to live. It impels him to live and suffer another day, even when there is no hope or promise of any pleasant future prospects. It is like the alms which the beggar receives from life today, that he may hunger again on the morrow. For all men, irrespective of their status, the essence of life is misery and frustration."



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a good point, but why he is hankering after something? Why he is hankering after...? He is being frustrated.



Śyāmasundara: The will. The will is...



Prabhupāda: Therefore the conclusion is: there is a goal. He is hankering after that goal. But he has not as yet approached that goal, achieved that goal. Therefore, to understand what is that goal, one should approach a spiritual master. Tad vijñānātaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet.



Śyāmasundara: He has no idea of any goal; he says that life is a waste of effort.



Prabhupāda: That means he is not a perfect philosopher. The thing is that when I am willing to have something(?) solution, there must be some solution. There must be some solution. But I do not know what is that solution.



Śyāmasundara: If I will there is some solution, there must be some solution.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The same example: the child is crying for the mother's breast*-feeding, crying, crying, crying, there is solution. But as soon as the breast-feeding is given in the mouth, he is satisfied. So one should know what the child is wanting, why is this (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: He says that human life must be some kind of mistake, that the greatest crime of man is that he was ever born.



Prabhupāda: So that's all right, there must be somebody who punishes him for his crime. Is it not? The greatest crime, he is suffering, then there must be somebody who is judge that "You are criminal, you must suffer."



Śyāmasundara: You must be born.



Prabhupāda: "You must take your birth." So who is that?



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't believe in God. Actually...



Prabhupāda: That means nonsense. Anyone who does not believe in, he is a nonsense, rascaldom.



Śyāmasundara: He says that because the world is so mad, it could not possibly have any author. Because if there was a God, that God would have set the world in order.



*Prabhupāda: Then why he is mad? We have got experience that there are madmen, but there is hospital also for treating the madmen. Similarly, the world may be mad, but there is hospitalization. That he does not know. From practical experience we see there are many madmen. At the same time there is a hospital, lunatic hospitals also, so treatment is there. So he does not see that. He has no knowledge where is the hospital, how he'll get and be treated. This is accepted, the world is mad, that's all right. But there is treatment also. Because in our experience practically we can show whenever there is disease, there is some treatment of it. But he does not know what is the treatment. He is speaking of sinful life, what he was saying, just like, but he does not accept who is the judge to give me resultant action of my sinful life. The world is mad, but he does not know where the treatment of madman is done. He does not know. Therefore his knowledge is imperfect, and still he is philosophizing. That is the defect. Our proposition is that unless one is perfect, we cannot take knowledge from him. That is our proposition. Therefore our authority is Veda. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. Why it is perfect? Because it is given by God. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi*-kavaye [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedic knowledge was imparted to Brahma within the heart. So the perfect knowledge is coming from the supreme perfect. When you take that knowledge, then your knowledge is perfect. Otherwise you can go on. You can become Dr. Frog, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: Once before we were discussing a philosopher named Leibnitz. Leibnitz said that this is the best of all possible worlds, and you agreed, you said, "Yes, this is the best of all possible worlds because it's God's arrangement." But Schopenhauer says that this is the worst of all possible worlds.



Prabhupāda: But best of all? Why shall I say best of all worlds?



Śyāmasundara: In the sense that because Kṛṣṇa created it or God created it, that it was the best arrangement.



Prabhupāda: Why this? Any world, what Kṛṣṇa creates, that is all right. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ [Iso Invocation]. Everything is perfect. The world is perfect. So there is no doubt. But the nature of the world being material, there are three qualities. They are also working perfectly. As you work, so you get the result, reaction.



Śyāmasundara: So what would you say, if Schopenhauer said this is the worst of all possible worlds?



Prabhupāda: Why worst? We don't say worst.



Śyāmasundara: Because it is so full of frustration.



Prabhupāda: Nothing can be worst which is created by God. Why God shall create some worst? Why he says worst? What is he...?



Śyāmasundara: Because it is so full of madness and frustration.



Prabhupāda: Actually frustration, if it is taken seriously, that frustration may make him successful. Frustration, we get so many letters from our students, frustration, but now they are thinking that they are safe. So frustration is another help, but provided we take the real shelter. Then frustration is not bad. If you are put into some dangerous position, but if you know how to save from it, that danger will be later on a feeling of pleasure. "Oh, I was put into such pleasure and I was saved in this way." (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: He says that the working of the world is ethically evil. For instance, he observes that...



Prabhupāda: To some extent that is all right, because when you are in prison life, you will find evil. But that evil is good for you, so that you can learn some lesson, and when you are out of the prison you will not come again. That is the blessings of evil.



Śyāmasundara: The blessings of evil.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: For instance in the animal kingdom, he observes the brutality of one animal eating another animal, and he says that this is life's pattern, one disappointment after another.



Prabhupāda: So, the worst brutal is the human being who is eating animals. Animals are called brutal because he is eating another animal, and the human being who is eating animal, he is the worst brutal, because in spite of his sense, he is violating. So therefore, he is the worst animal.



Śyāmasundara: He says that happiness is a negative state. It only means a momentary suspension of suffering.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, janme jana rage jana (Bengali). That a man is destined to be punished, he is put within the water. When he is almost on the point of suffocation, he is taken out. He feels how happy. He does not, "Oh, again I am down. Again I will be down." If I have happiness here, it is temporary relief. But if he is intelligent enough, then he will not do something which may put him into that unhappiness condition.



Śyāmasundara: He says that suicide is no escape from evil because the will is indestructible and eternal.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. He is putting himself in more. By suicide he becomes a ghost. That is more troublesome. Yes. Because the body given by God, he is killing. So from this body he has to accept another body. So unless that point comes, he has to remain a ghost. No body. Suppose I have to live in this body eighty years. I'll make suicide. So up to five years I have to remain a ghost, no body. Then it may be chance to get another body. This is wrong. Killing of any body, because na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So one can put this argument, that the soul is everlasting, so what if the body is killed? But that's all right, body is killed, but you cannot kill the body to hamper its progress. One living entity is destined to live in a certain body. If you destroy that body, then he has to wait for the next body. That means you are interfering with his progress. Therefore you are sinful. Just like I am living in this apartment. If somebody by force drives me away, it is criminal. If I go to the police, that "I was living in this apartment and this man by force has driven me," is it not criminal? So I am not lost because I am driven out of this body. But you will be liable for criminal punishment because you have forced me to leave this body. Ramakrishna Mission says that what is the point if a man or animal is killed? The soul is immortal, so what is this? What is that? The rascals, they do not know. The real philosophy is here. The soul is destined to live in a certain body for a certain period. If you immaturely stop it, then you become responsible. Exactly like that. I am living in my apartment. If you by force drive me away, you are criminal. They do not know all these things. Imperfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the bodies are manifestations of the will...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that we also say, but whose will?



Śyāmasundara: "The will," he calls it. "The will," in the abstract.



Prabhupāda: No, that is nonsense. Will, when he says will, the will must be from a person, of an individual person. That he does not know.



Śyāmasundara: We only have experience that will is coming from a person.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: But what about the will of electricity and gravity, these forces of nature. Aren't they also...



Prabhupāda: That is also will of a person. The maker of the computer machine, he has will.



Śyāmasundara: That's right. A computer machine has a will also.



Prabhupāda: Will..., not will. It is so mechanically arranged, it is acting. Just like a tape is singing...



Śyāmasundara: Oh.



Prabhupāda: ...outside your door: "Prabhupāda is singing." But I am not singing.



Śyāmasundara: The computer doesn't...



Prabhupāda: I have made it to sing. The computer is not the ultimate. The real brain is the who has made it.



Śyāmasundara: The computer doesn't have a will, but it expresses the will of some man.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The mechanical arrangement is so nice by the brain of the manufacturer that is acting.



Śyāmasundara: I see. So he says that this will must continuously reincarnate...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...time after time, there is no stopping it.



Prabhupāda: No.



Śyāmasundara: So that we cannot become nothing; we must endure...



Prabhupāda: No. We are something. How we can be nothing? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. We do not become nothing even after the destruction of this body.



Śyāmasundara: Therefore he says that we must endure our state, our suffering state, and make the best of a bad bargain.



Prabhupāda: You should endure, at the same time you should find out the way that your suffering may be stopped. That is intelligent. That is intelligent.



Śyāmasundara: He says that life is more than disappointment; it is a form of deception, and all human beings born into this world are condemned not to death but to life.



Prabhupāda: That we say, but we give also hope that in this way we shall be happy. Your life will be blissful. We say this is condemned life and this is blissful life. Come to bliss. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But he has no such knowledge. He is simply staying with the condemned side. He has no knowledge of the blissful side. Therefore he is imperfect. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānā. This kind of philosophy will be accepted by a man of his category: he is blind and another blind man will accept it, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: So tomorrow we will finish Schopenhauer. Today is finished. [break]



Prabhupāda: The will cannot be stopped. Therefore you have to reform your willing process. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: He says..., he mentions a third type of salvation, called religious salvation. He says that this is the highest. But his idea of religious salvation is ascetism. That by denying the will then we can quiet the will.



*Prabhupāda: Yes that is in one sense, that you don't will anything which is not favorable to Kṛṣṇa's service. That is our prescription. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyaṁ vivarjanam. This is, out of the six items of surrender, these are the two items, that you should give up things which are not favorable in execution of devotional service. You should give up. That sort of willing, you should give up. And you should accept everything which is favorable for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So willing cannot be... Our process is to purify willing. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So, just like you are working or others are working, somebody is working, "I am American, I must do this as American." And others say, "I am communist, I must do this." This is superfluous. According to designation, they are willing. And when you come to this willing: simply to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is designation-less. That sort of willing we should practice. Not willing with designation. He is thinking of willing of designation.



Śyāmasundara: So practically that is the same as not willing.



*Prabhupāda: No. Not willing you cannot say. Not willing bad, but willing good. That is called purification. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. To... We are willing. We are willing to serve to Kṛṣṇa, we are willing to preach Kṛṣṇa's glories. But this kind of willing. Willing is now reformed. This is real willing. Because I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so I must will according to Kṛṣṇa's will. Just like this hand is part and parcel of my body. It is moving according to my will .



*Śyāmasundara: He says that through self*-mortification that we can destroy the willing process altogether.



Prabhupāda: That is impossible. That is rascaldom. It is not possible. Nobody can destroy the willing process.



Śyāmasundara: I'll just read what he says. He says, "Eventually the ascetic will exist only as a pure knowing being, the undimmed mirror of the world. Nothing can trouble him more. Nothing can move him, for he has cut all the thousand cords of will which hold us bound to the world, and as desire, fear, envy, anger, drag us hither and thither in constant pain, to such a man life is an illusion to which he must be indifferent." So his idea is that you cut all the cords of will which bind us to this material world.



Prabhupāda: Then what remains?



Śyāmasundara: Nothing.



Prabhupāda: Hmm?



Śyāmasundara: Nothing.



Prabhupāda: That means he is the philosopher is of śūnyavādī.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Śūnyavādī, nirviśeṣa śūnyavādī. So we are killing this kind of philosophy, śūnyavādī. But you cannot become śūnya. It is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: He has a similar idea to the Buddhists. He says that we repudiate desire in passing to nirvāṇa, or nothingness.



Prabhupāda: And that is not possible. This is, this is simply a lack of knowledge. Just like the same philosophy, if there is danger before me I cannot protect me from the danger, I simply close my eyes, "Ahh. There is no danger." It is like that. The danger remains there. He thinks by closing the eyes, he thinks, "Now I am out of danger". That is his foolishness. You know? The small animal, rabbits or monkeys, they close the eyes. There was..., I do not know, I heard that there was an artistic competition, prize distribution, that one has to paint a picture, that the..., before the mother the son is being killed. So the artist has to paint the facial expression of the mother. So, so many artists paint so many ways. And one artist painted the mother closed the eyes. He got the first prize. Because this kind of suffering cannot be expressed. The best thing is closed.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see.



Prabhupāda: Yes, this is their philosophy. Close the eyes. "I no more, no longer exist." But that will not work. You have to exist my dear sir, and you have to surrender, you have to become a tree. Just like tree exists, it has got life, but practically it is not existing: cut it, insult it, kick it. That kind of existence will be the salvation for these rascals, to remain a tree for ten thousand years, that's all. No sense.



Śyāmasundara: He says where there is no will, then there is no ideas, no world...



Prabhupāda: That is all explained. That means when there is no sense of pains and pleasure, then they say there is no will. But, this not will. It is suppression. Suṣupti, it is called suṣupti. There are three stages: one stage is that I am awakened; another stage is that I am not awakened, I am sleeping but dreaming; and another stage is unconsciousness. Three stages. But in three stages, the will is there.



Śyāmasundara: Even in the unconscious.



Prabhupāda: Yes, because we see unconscious person, as soon as comes to consciousness, "Oh, I have to do this, I have to go there." Wherefrom it comes? It is called suṣupti damna(?). Suṣupti damna means you are sleeping, but when you are awakened you immediately remember all your duties, past and present and future.



Śyāmasundara: The will is never killed.



Prabhupāda: No it cannot be. That is the function of the soul. The soul is eternal, therefore willing is eternal. It can be suppressed for sometime. Just like death. What is death? Death means stop willingness for seven months, that's all. That is death. And as soon as, according to your will, you develop a type of body and come out from the mother's womb, and the willing begins again. Again. Death means suppression of will for seven months, that's all. So suppression of willing... Just like if you are chloroformed, if you are anesthetic given, you can suppress your willing. Therefore you are unconscious. Even somebody is cutting you, you don't protest. But that does not mean the will is not there. It is there. It is suppressed, by artificial means. In other words, will cannot be killed or it can be stopped. If you train your willing process badly, then you have to suffer life after life. And if you train your willing nicely, then you go to Vaikuṇṭha, back to Godhead



Devotee: The impersonalist in the brahmajyoti, is his will in a dormant state also?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is willingness in a negative way: "I shall not will. I shall not will. Because I have got experience that by willing I have suffered so much, so I shall not will." But that stage you cannot stay for a long time. Then you have to again will in the same way.



Śyāmasundara: What about these men who perform great austerities, lash their bodies, starve, and...



Prabhupāda: Oh, that is also the same thing, not willing. They have no knowledge of good willing; therefore they simply want to kill bad willing. Because they are insufficient in knowledge that in this way willing cannot be reformed. Just like a child is accustomed to play. If you stop playing, then he will be dull, he'll be diseased. But you must give him good engagement. Just like DDD, he stopped playing. He was worshiping Jagannātha, and he said, "It is māyā." He stopped. Just like your daughter, when she is engaged in worshiping Deity, she is engladdened. So give good engagement, good willing, and he will automatically give up all this nonsense bad willing. But if you want to stop artificially willing, that will be not possible. That you can stop for the time, but it will again act.



Śyāmasundara: So you go through so much trouble...



*Prabhupāda: Therefore the Māyāvādī philosophers, the impersonalists, because they are not willing to serve Kṛṣṇa, they stop willing. They again fall down. Vivekananda comes and opens hospitals. Just like your Christian missionaries. Yes. This is there. Willing, you cannot stop. You have to will badly or goodly, or godly. So better try to will godly, then badly will automatically... This is our process. You don't stop willing. Yes, we will*-or Kṛṣṇa's service.



Śyāmasundara: So that's all for Schopenhauer. (end)





HEIDEGGER.SYA



Martin Heidegger



Śyāmasundara: So (indistinct) has these four qualities, or characteristics. A (indistinct), of understanding that I am dying, and living with that understanding, understanding that I am existing, and having different moods.



Prabhupāda: So I am existing till my death. Is it not?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: And when death takes place, I am finished.



Śyāmasundara: Well, that's the common understanding in most...



Prabhupāda: No. He is understanding that "I am existing up to the point of death. After death I am not existing." Is it not? They are rascals.



Śyāmasundara: But later we find that he does believe in some kind of immortality, but he is talking about the (indistinct), or the (indistinct) of individuals that normally, on a normal level, they believe that the body will end or it will die at a certain time, so that they act in such a way with that in mind. And he calls that, that knowledge that I will die some day, that this creates anxiety or dread in the living entity.



Prabhupāda: So this is animal, animals' philosophy, that "I shall die." Then that very attachment, he is imperfect, that he dies. We do not agree that we will die. Actually that's not a fact, because in my life I can understand that I have existed as a child. So the body of child is not there, but still I am existing. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I'll exist. So I exist eternally. I shall not die. That is the philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the essence of the human being is in his existence. That is that there are numerous kinds of...



Prabhupāda: His idea of existence is: from birth to death. Not beyond death. He did not exist before his birth, and he'll not exist after his death. So his existence means from the point of birth up to the point of death. So that is not very good philosophy.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that because... A human being has numerous possibilities open to choose from*-different kinds of being for himself. He can choose different kinds of being for himself.



Prabhupāda: Mm.



Śyāmasundara: The possibilities of becoming this or that are his. He can choose. He can elect what he wants to be in the future.



*Prabhupāda: That is also not proof. As soon as he gets a body, his thing is settled up. Just like you have got this body*-white body. You cannot become black body. Or a man who has got black body, he cannot become white man. This is wrong philosophy. How you can settle up? Because he is considering the of body, he is considering the existence means the manufacture of the body from the womb of mother up to the destruction of the body. So this body, as it is made, there are different types of body. So that cannot be changed.



Śyāmasundara: What about if someone can choose to become a doctor or a lawyer or a physician or anything like that.



Prabhupāda: That is quality; that is not the body.



Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't say body, he says that he can choose his different kinds of being, how he will be, whether he will be a lawyer or a doctor, like that. He can be good, he can be bad...



Prabhupāda: First thing is that if he has no clear idea of existence, then what he can be, that will depend on the idea of existence. So as he is thinking of to become doctor or lawyer and teacher, similarly he should know that he eternally exists, then he can also make a program what he can become next time.



Śyāmasundara: He says that that is the essence of existence, that we can become something which we choose, of our own choosing.



Prabhupāda: That means he is talking of this existence. According to him, the existence finishes after death. That is poor fund of knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't make that judgment. He simply says that the living entities are motivated by that feeling, that they will die. He doesn't say whether there is life or death.



Prabhupāda: That means he has no knowledge. We say that he does not die, he exists eternally. That is our philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't make a judgment if there is life after death or not, he's simply like a psychologist examines what motivates people's behavior or...



*Prabhupāda: No. If you do not know whether he exist in the future or not... Just like a child, if he knows that "I shall exist as an old man," then there is question of what I shall become. If he does not know whether he'll exist or not, then what is the idea of becoming a teacher, or I can become (indistinct). First of all you should know that I exist only for this duration of life or I exist forever. That is real philosophy. Real philosophy is, "I exist forever." That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Just like I existed as a small baby, I existed as a boy, I existed as a young man. I remember all those existences, although the body is finished. Therefore the conclusion is that I shall exist when this body is finished. That is real knowledge. And it is common sense. If I existed as this child, I existed as a baby, I existed as a boy, I existed as a young man, and I am existing as old man, so why not I shall exist when this body is finished? In this life I experience so many bodies, they have left, they are no longer existing, but I see that I am existing; therefore why shall I not see that I will exist after the death. What do you think?



Devotee: What do I think?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You are understanding what I am speaking?



Devotee: Hm. Actually I am sort of in awe of (indistinct), but I enjoy listening. (indistinct)



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he was being in awe of being with you, but he wasn't listening to the words.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. All right. Then, this is the idea of existence. Therefore the philosophy is that I shall not be very much interested what I am going to become in this life. My philosophy should be that as I am eternally existing, what is my eternal occupation. That is philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: But he is talking about..., a man defines himself in this world without any knowledge, previous knowledge, and he has... All his knowledge is that he has observed that other living bodies die, or living entities die, so he has the anxiety...



Prabhupāda: No. That knowledge is not perfect. Everyone has knowledge that I existed as like this. Then he becomes... It is common sense. So how he existed as a child, as a baby, as a young man, everyone can see. Any old man can see. So it does not require any high knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: He is more or less describing the position of most of the living material entities, that this is the knowledge they operate on, that they will die. That even though they don't die, but at least most people believe that they will die, so they operate with this anxiety and this dread.



Prabhupāda: So everyone is afraid of death. That animal is also afraid of death. Then? What is the special philosophy? This is animal, also they think, "I will die," he's afraid.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are numerous possibilities to choose from, to become what we like. There are unlimited possibilities. We can become this or that. So that we can choose our essence, that the essence of a man is in his own hands. He can choose his own essence, what he wants to be.



Prabhupāda: That we are also stating, that essence is that "I will exist in future." Is it not? So if one knows that "I will exist even after destruction of this body," then he will think of essence differently.



Śyāmasundara: Ah.



Prabhupāda: That is knowledge. But if we simply take account, just like "I shall go from this room to that room, no more. I have no knowledge," that is not perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the world is not a container with a men inside of it, but that the men and the world are not separate. They are not separate. The world and the living entities are not separate. They are bound up together so that man and world are one encompassing...



Prabhupāda: What is the position of man in relationship with the world?



Śyāmasundara: That the world is the sphere of human concern. That a man finds himself in the world, so that he must become concerned with it.



Prabhupāda: Mm?



Śyāmasundara: That it is not that the world and the men are separated.



Devotee: Different.



Śyāmasundara: But that we are bound up together by this world's concern or care. Because a man is in the world, he must care for it, he must have concern for it.



Prabhupāda: Mm. He must concern first.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. This is the relationship, care, between man and the world. The man must care for the world.



Prabhupāda: Concern, there are different kinds of concern. Just like... Again, concerning that what is actually my relationship with the world. So everyone's relationship is that he wants to enjoy this world. Is it not?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Everyone wants. Everyone is struggling hard to get a better position in this world. That means to enjoy this world. So this is going on in the animal kingdom also. The animal kingdom also. Just like a dog, if he finds another dog coming, or another (indistinct), he will begin barking. So the real concern is just like we have created nationalism that "Nobody may come in my place." So this kind of mentality is there in the animal also. So human body should be concerned like that, like animal. He thinks like that.



Śyāmasundara: No, he's... In the beginning he is simple analyzing the relationship, basic relationship...



Prabhupāda: Basic relationship is that I want to enjoy this world. Does he agree to this point or not? I want to enjoy this world to the best of my capacity. That is my concern. Everyone is struggling for that.



Śyāmasundara: He simply says that between (indistinct), or being there, and the things of the world there is a relationship of care or concern, that's all. He doesn't say whether it's...



Prabhupāda: That is a concern, that I want to enjoy this world; others may not interrupt. That is my concern. I am living in this world, I am living in this apartment, I am asking my assistant, "Let not others come here, disturb me." So that is my concern. Just like in your country, they keep dogs: "Beware of dog," "Please do not come here." Eh? So this is my concern. I want to enjoy this world to the best of my capacity and others may not disturb me. This is plain and simple concern. What, beyond this, what is the concern? That is going on as nationalism. That is going on as individualism. That is going on as communityism, so many things.



Śyāmasundara: I guess if you look at it, every object that we relate with, we are concerned about it or for it only because it gives us or supplies us our pleasure.



*Prabhupāda: That is my concern. I am keeping my things in the closet, locked. Why? (So that) my things may not be taken by somebody. This is real concern. I am keeping gun, (so) one may not hurt me, or may not attack me. That is called self*-preservation. That is the concern. Self-preservation is the first law of nature. So that is in the animal kingdom. Everyone is (indistinct). Defence, what you call defence, that we are defying, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Our concern are divided into four parts. My first concern is where shall I eat, how shall I eat. And the next concern is where shall I sleep. And next the concern is how shall I enjoy my senses, who will be my partner. And next concern is how shall I live, how shall I defend. These are the concerns. And these concerns are there in the animals. So how human beings becomes better than animals? If the human being has got the same concern as the animals, then how the human being is better than the animals? What is that concern?



Śyāmasundara: He said that...



Prabhupāda: I'll give you just time to point out how that philosophers are less intelligent.



*Śyāmasundara: He actually tries to answer those questions later, but in the beginning he comes to the same point, that what should we be concerned with here are the..., the concerns that he has just described, that just existing. Because in the end, even we are concerned with these things, still they disappear when we die, so there is really no basis for them. They are based on what he calls "nothingness"*-eating, sleeping, mating, defending...



Prabhupāda: But if you don't eat, will you exist? Why nothingness? This is another rascal. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: Because they are caused by anxiety.



Prabhupāda: This anxiety must be there. You must arrange for eating. We are speaking on the point of concern.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So what can I eat, that's a concern.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. If I do not eat, there's always some anxiety. If there's no food...



Prabhupāda: No. If I do not (indistinct), there must be eating. There must be eating.



Śyāmasundara: So if I feel hungry, I become full of anxiety, "Where is food? Where is food?" He says that this anxiety...



Prabhupāda: Not only that; before becoming hungry, I will acquire food. Just like we go in the market and purchase food. At that time I am not hungry, but I know I shall be hungry, I shall have to eat; therefore we shall have to prepare foodstuffs before I become hungry. That is concern. When I am purchasing foodstuff, I am not hungry actually, but still I know that I shall become hungry in the after..., lunch time, so I must prepare for. That is our concern. I am arranging for an apartment, not that at that time I am feeling sleepy, but I know that I will have to sleep at night. That's why I must have a place. This is my concern.



Śyāmasundara: He calls this concern is the symptoms of..., characteristics of existence, and he says that this existence has priority...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we also say. Because I want to exist, therefore my concern means the struggle for existence. I am struggling, how to exist.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that this existence has priority over the essence. In other words, only when we get beyond...



Prabhupāda: What is that essence?



*Śyāmasundara: This is what the man, a man has to choose*-find out his essence. But first there is existence, before that search...



Prabhupāda: But the existence, therefore we say that your real problem is unless you know what is your position, then there cannot be any tangible program. If I know that I exist eternally, then my real concern should be how to check all these concerns so that I may live eternally without any concern. My question will be: "I am existing eternally. Why there should be concerns?" I must live and exist eternally without any concern. Why there have to be so many concerns? I do not want. Suppose the death. I know I shall death, but I do not know; I do not want to die. That is my concern. That my concern should be how I can live without death. That is real intelligent concern. There is death. I know I will die, but I do not wish to die. That is also fact. Suppose you are... If I take a sword and want to kill you, you know that you will die, why don't you accept, "All right, kill me. I'll have to die, so kill me"? Why you protest? Why you protest? Why you fly away? Why you (indistinct) defend? You know you shall die. So die now. (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: Because he wants to enjoy...



Prabhupāda: Therefore I do not want to die. That is the philosophy. Death is there. (air raid siren in background) Just like here is the siren, and you are (indistinct) die, but why he's defending? Why this siren is there, "Now death is coming, be careful"? That means, in other words, "I do not wish to die." That is my real concern, that I do not wish to die, but death is forced upon me. Therefore my concern should be how to avoid it. That is real concern. That is real philosophy. Why you forget this psychology, that "I do not wish to die"? Somebody will... Even animals. I have seen one pig, a small pig, what is called, pig, small. So the master took (indistinct). Psychologically he understands that he is taken, now he will be killed. Just crying, "peh, peh, peh." So why? This is a pig. He doesn't want to die. So everyone does not want to die, but still he knows that he will die. Therefore the real concern should be that I do not wish to die, that death is forced upon me, and that is my real concern. That is real philosophy, whether there is possibility of. Know that. That is intelligence. That intelligence is (indistinct) there in the human form of life. Animal, they, although they know it that death is there, but I don't want to go, die, but they have no capacity to stop death. But human beings can do that.



*Śyāmasundara: So Heidegger says that this (German*-indistinct) or this being there, has two characteristics. First is priority of existence over essence. In other words, first I exist, and inside of this existence I can find my essence. During this existence, I can find my essence. And the second characteristic...



Prabhupāda: What is that essence?



Śyāmasundara: Well then he..., his philosophy comes to that point, what is man's essence.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Śyāmasundara: First of all he says that my existence is prior. First of all I have to exist and live, and then inside of this existence I may come to the point of discovering my essence.



Prabhupāda: But he has not discovered the essence.



Śyāmasundara: But he comes to that point.



Prabhupāda: What is that point?



Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Well, that's at the end.



Prabhupāda: End? You know. You have read it?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: What is that essence?



Śyāmasundara: He calls it authenticity. Authenticity means when I am something of my own. Authentic means when I am authentically me, he calls it.



Prabhupāda: What is that, "authentic"? He does not explain?



Śyāmasundara: It's not explained very clearly.



Prabhupāda: But what do you understand by this authenticity?



Śyāmasundara: Well... (pause) The thing is that in the same sense that Kierkegaard is saying that man has to create... [break]



Prabhupāda: Authentic means reality. What is that? Authenticity means reality?



Śyāmasundara: It means being free from guilt, being free from anxiety, being always resolute in purpose.



Prabhupāda: So reality... I see this is reality, that I don't wish to die but there is death. Authenticity means how to live without death. That is all. Is it not?



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. (pause) (indistinct) that the conclusions of the philosophy, by going through the different steps (indistinct). First of all, these two characteristics of existence, or (German*-indistinct). One is that existence is prior to essence. The second is that (indistinct), or existence, is mine, that it is a personal. Everyone has the feeling that I...



Prabhupāda: I can exist. Others may not exist. Is that philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: No. That is also a person(?) outside of you, but that my existence is personal.



Prabhupāda: Does my existence, it is first; other existence is secondary? Just like (if) I eat meat. I must eat, because I must have meat, so poor animals must be killed. So his existence is this, neglected. Is that their philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: Well he doesn't say that. He just says that "I have the feeling, the unique feeling that I exist individually as a person."



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. I exist individually and others may not exist. Is not that philosophy? So I must exist, others may not exist. So others also must think like that. That is animal. I am thinking that "I must exist. I don't care for you." You are thinking that you must exist, you don't care for me, so therefore there is struggle between you and me*-struggle for existence. We are fighting. I am thinking I must exist, you are saying you must exist. Is it not? (pause)



Śyāmasundara: He says that man's actions or reality is the existence or his (indistinct). In other words, from the fact that I exist, I can find my..., that is my essence, that is my reality.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This should be done individually, collectively. Therefore there is group of nationality, therefore combined together should exist. The other group also, they are also thinking. So there are different parties. (indistinct) struggle, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest. If you exist killing me, then you are fit. And if I'll exist killing you, because you want to exist at my cost, I want to exist at your cost, so there is struggle. So if you can kill me, then you are fit, and if I kill you, then I am fit. Survival of the fittest.



*Śyāmasundara: By this existence or (indistinct) that a man can choose himself or win himself by his own improvement, that he can realize himself. If I exist then I can realize myself, what I am, what is my essence. And there are two types of existence, he says: authentic existence and inauthentic existence. Authentic existence is what one feels when that existence is something of his own. [break] So he says there are two kinds of existence: authentic existence and inauthentic existence. So a man who is leading an authentic existence, then he is something of his own. But he is leading an inauthentic existence, then he is busy, excited, or preoccupied, what they say, when he has lost himself, when he loses himself. That is inauthentic existence. Thus authentic existence is when a man is always aware, self*-aware, of his existence: "What I am doing now, what I am doing now, what am I doing now." So he says that an inauthentic existence is fallen existence, that a man falls into averageness or everydayness or what he calls publicness, where he lacks individuality and becomes the group self, and his personal decisions are not based upon a individual...



Prabhupāda: Everyone is living an inauthentic existence because... That is animal existence. He knows only the span of life from birth to death. That's all. That is inauthentic existence. When he knows that this is temporary... Just like suppose we are preacher, living in this apartment, say for a month. (indistinct). So this span of existence, one month or ten days or six months, this is inauthentic. But my preaching work, as preacher, I am (indistinct), that is my authentic existence. Is it not?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Does he think like that?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Because whatever you're doing, you are always aware of why I am doing it, what is it for, like that.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore the conclusion is that a human being should know, should distinguish what is authentic existence and what is inauthentic existence. That is human life. At least we should know it. That is the order of the *Upaniṣads*, that anyone who knows this, he is brāhmaṇa. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti. The dog does not know it, but a man can know this. If he knows it, then he's a brāhmaṇa.



Śyāmasundara: He says that men have the tendency to fall into this not making their own decisions. Their decisions are not based upon a personal basis but upon group decisions, and just because someone else does something, I do it.



Prabhupāda: That is authentic decision.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Authentic decision. You must make your decision; therefore there is no... In any human society there is law, there is division, there is social etiquette, social obligation, so many things. So we are not independent to decide that we have to abide by the customs and etiquette.



Śyāmasundara: So he says because someone else does something in a certain way and they get a good result, we automatically imitate.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Because we are hoping for the same result.



Prabhupāda: Just like a thief, he gets more money by stealing, but that is not allowed by the society. It is law. So that is not very good.



Śyāmasundara: No. He says that is not a good faith. But our decisions are not (indistinct) based upon..., our authentic, personal commitment, whatever that is.



Prabhupāda: Mm?



Śyāmasundara: Whatever that may be.



Prabhupāda: That he does not know, but we know. He is simply philosopher. We know that we must exist for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we know, but he does not know.



Śyāmasundara: He is..., he is looking for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Prabhupāda: He does not know this.



Śyāmasundara: But he does not know.



Prabhupāda: Everyone is looking. Everyone... The struggle for existence means everyone is looking for "How shall I exist forever?" But he does not know. Everyone... Nobody wants to die. Everyone wants to free himself from the clutches of death, but he does not know it.



Śyāmasundara: He wants to find the basis for individuality, strong individuality.



Prabhupāda: Individuality you may keep. It doesn't matter. Every one of us is individual. Every one of us is struggling, but we must know what for we are struggling, what is our existence. These things are required. Individuality is there. We are preaching this individualism. We do not say that impersonalism. No. So is that all right?. No. Still more.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Oh, yes. Still more. He says that a man finds himself flung into the world, and he finds that he is a fact within this world. He cannot deny that he is here. And he is subject to the resultant mood of fear or dread that comes about when he discovers that there is no escape to being here. "I am here. There is no escape." So there is immediate anxiety always within the man, that "I am here." So...



Prabhupāda: So when one is under some condition, then there is (indistinct). So therefore, this material world, every one of us are living under conditions and everyone is anxious.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He said that the basic mood of existence is anxiety.



Prabhupāda: Just like there was a statement by Mujid Rāman that "I was put into a cell, and nobody could see me, there was no paper, I was not given paper, I did not know what is happening outside," and (indistinct) he has described. So this kind of existing under certain conditions, that conditional existence is cause of anxiety. [break] He does not want to die, and the death signal is there. The death signal is always there, but he has... Under the influence of māyā, he is thinking that "There is no danger. There is no danger." But that danger can take place any moment. And he is not making any solution. That is called māyā. He is thinking, "I am safe." What is safe? I am sitting here and talking, and immediately my heart can fail. So death can take place at any moment.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that this kind of care or concern as a result of anxiety is what prompts us toward reality. This drives us toward reality, this fear, this concern.



*Prabhupāda: That is nice. The reality is... Then you have to concern... Just like when you are diseased, when you are in the trouble, some implication of legal matter, then you go to the lawyer, how to get out of it. When you are diseased, when you are troubled, you go to the physician. Similarly, if you are actually eager to get out of the anxiety, then you have to go to somebody who knows that Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Simply by knowing Me," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. "You should simply try to understand Me." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "Anyone who knows Me, how I appear, what I do, what is My function," that means anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, "then after living in this body, he does not take birth again." And if there is no birth, there is no death, there is no disease, there is no trouble. As soon as there is birth there must be... Anyone who has taken birth, he must die. That is the law. Anywhere. Anything which is born must die, must get old, must be diseased. Anything, even you take material things-this machine*-it has got a date of birth, and there will be a death when it will stop functioning. And it is getting older. That is the law. But here is Kṛṣṇa says that "You can stop death, simply by understanding Me." And if you stop birth, punar janma, then you stop other things. Because death is there, then there is birth, but if there is no birth, there is no death. You have to think like that, that these are the problems of anxiety: birth, death, old age, and disease. So here Kṛṣṇa says that you can stop your birth. Punar janma naiti: no more birth. Then I can stop all other things. Because as soon as there is birth, the other things are there. But if there is no birth, the other things are not there. That makes you anxietyless. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is required. This is the condition to solve all anxieties.



Śyāmasundara: He says this anxiety is evidence of finitude.



Prabhupāda: Mm?



Śyāmasundara: He says that anxiety is evidence of finitude, or that being finite, opposite of infinite.



Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: If one is finite, then there is automatically anxiety.



Prabhupāda: But the..., we want to be anxietyless. That means we are infinite, according to that philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Anxiety is there when I think that I am finite. Just like when I think that Mr. Bhatiwalla(?) is trying to get us out, then we are in anxiety. And if we know that there is no such thing, we can live here... So we want to live infinitely. When that is disturbed, there is anxiety. Therefore it appears that we are infinite. But we have been put into finite condition. That is the cause of anxiety. Now, therefore, the intelligent person should try to come to the platform of infiniteness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. There are many others... There are many devotees, just to avoid this birth, death, old age, many have attained success. These things are stated in Bhagavad*-gītā. Therefore the conclusion is it will become anxietyless to have infinite life. One must (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the conclusion. And there is no question of avoiding. If you avoid, then you..., it must be remain entangled. It is a question of must. You must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness if you actually... Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that, that when he was asked by his father what is the best thing he had learned, he said this is the best thing: that he should give up this materialistic way of life and take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is the best thing. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehinām means those who have accepted the material body. For them. And dehinām, one who has accepted this body, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5], because he is eternal, but he has accepted something which is not eternal, asat. It is limited. He is unlimited, but he is entrapped by something which is limited. Therefore, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Just like we have got our own land in Māyāpur, so we can go and live there. There is no question of Bhatiwalla. But we won't go there. We have accepted this apartment. Therefore we must change it. Is it not? We are paying three thousand rupees-still anxiety, because we know at any moment he can be a trouble and kick out. So asad-grahāt. It is not your place you have accepted. Similarly, because you have accepted this material body, then there must be anxiety. Anyone, he may be Mr. Nixon, or he may be Mr. Ayub Khan, or a man in the street, or an ant, or Brahma, or anyone, because he has accepted asad-grahāt, this body, it is not exist; *he must be in anxiety. This is knowledge. Therefore you have to learn knowledge from authorities*-Prahlāda Mahārāja. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, recommends, that you should give up this, this way of life. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. This acceptance of body is just like to fall down in a dark well, blind well. So one should give it up. How give it up? How it can go? Harim āśrayeta: just take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. So that is the meaning. That means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You give up this material consciousness. Material consciousness means how I shall live, how I shall eat, how I shall sleep, how I shall enjoy my senses, how I shall defend. This is material existence. This is material existence. And spiritual existence means I take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, He is my protector, I am (indistinct). This. (Sanskrit). To have firm faith that I have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, He is giving me protection. I have no anxiety. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are giving that. So take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and become anxietyless. That's all. That is our propaganda. "Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be free from all anxiety." That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that when we have thoughts and ideas, that their intention is always directed towards some object, but anxiety has no intended object. If I am anxious about something, or address something, it is not real because there is no object toward which it is directed.



Prabhupāda: Yes. When you have no objective, that anxiety is very troublesome. Therefore we have got also anxiety: how to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. You are also thinking that "Whether I have chanted sixteen rounds or not? Whether I am deviating from my duties to become (indistinct)?" There is anxiety, but we have got an objective. But others, they have no objective, and full of anxiety.



Śyāmasundara: He calls that "nothingness."



Prabhupāda: That is nothingness.



Śyāmasundara: Nothingness, that anxiety and despair.



Prabhupāda: Therefore we can (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Because people like that, they see the world as lacking any supporting structure. There's no meaning. So then tomorrow we'll begin to see how he strives toward giving meaning to it, this nothing; *how something comes out of it. [break] So we'll finish up Heidegger today and start on one other philosopher. Yesterday we were talking about Heidegger's (German*-indistinct) or "being there," and he says that truth is the revealment of the understanding of being there.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Without being, how there can be truth? To be is truth. "I am," this is truth. I exist, that is truth. If I don't exist, then where is truth?



ātmānaṁ sarvato rakṣet

tato dharmaṁ tato dhanam

ātmānaṁ vikṛti sati

tato kutaṁ tato dharmam



*Ātmā, my identity, if I protect, then I can protect my religion, I can protect my riches. And if I cannot protect myself, then where is my riches? Where is my religion? That is our Vedic understanding. So to exist, self*-preservation, that is the basic principle of all truth.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the understanding of my existence, of my being here, is truth. So when this, when all the details of why I am here and what I am here for become revealed, that is truth.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am true, therefore why I am here, that is truth. The basic principle is "I am truth." Therefore "Why I am here?" This is intelligent question. So that... These questions was asked by Sanātana Gosvāmī to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The first question: "Actually what I am? I don't want miserable condition of life, but this world is full of miserable condition of life. So why this is?" This is actually human understanding, when one comes to this enquiry that "I do not want any miserable condition of life, but why this miserable condition of life is forced upon me?" Nobody wanted the Pakistan war, but somehow or other it was enforced. Similarly, there are so many difficulties. Śītoṣṇa sukha*-duḥkha-dāḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, āgamāpāyino, they come and go, but they come and go, or they come, that's a fact. So we have to tolerate. But the question is why these miserable conditions come? Why I should tolerate? But even if I tolerate, that is not finished. So why this is the position? This "Why?" position is actually human life. That is called in the Vedānta-sūtra, brahma-jijñāsā. After trying (indistinct), when one is unable to make any solution, then the question comes "Why?" That is the beginning of human life. That is the beginning. Otherwise animal life. So animal life, this is animal is being slaughtered, but it cannot question, "Why I am being slaughtered?" That's all. "Why you are slaughtering me? I am also a living entity." It has no such (indistinct). That is animal's life. And when there is question "Why?" that is human life. "Why?" Kenopaniṣad.



Śyāmasundara: He claims that the consciousness of death makes a difference in the choices that an individual makes during his life. He says that the consciousness that this body will end, this consciousness guides him to choose in a certain way.



*Prabhupāda: So what is that way? The atheists, they think that "I shall die. That will finish. So let me enjoy to the best capacity. There is no question of pāpa and puṇya." That is atheist philosophy. "I have got this opportunity of sense enjoyment. Let me enjoy, to the best capacity, my senses." Because he has no next life. Void. Because after death everything is zero. So "Why should I care for 'This is pāpa, and this is puṇya.' Whatever is palatable for me, I shall do that." But he has got also consciousness of death. Another, we have also got consciousness of death. So our philosophy is that before death, let us inquire in such a way that we may go back to home, back to Godhead. Both of them have got the death consciousness. The one whose spiritual is zero, he is doing all nonsense. And one who knows that spiritual is not zero*-there is real substance-so "Let me prepare for death." [break] (end)





WITTGENSTEIN.SYA



Ludwig Wittgenstein



*Śyāmasundara: This morning we are discussing a philosopher called Ludwig Wittgenstein, a contemporary German philosopher. One of his major so*-called contributions is what is called a verification principle, which reads, "To understand a proposition means to know what is the case if it is true." That means anyone who wishes to understand a proposition must first know the conditions under which that proposition is true, that is, what information is required by way of evidence of its truth.



Prabhupāda: So the modern world's proposition is that "I am this body." So that is untruth. What does he say about this?



Śyāmasundara: Well, if I claim that I am this body, that means I have to know all of the conditions which make it true that I am this body. Then if all these conditions are true...



Prabhupāda: First of all we must discuss what I am. Then we have to see whether I am this body or not. And what do you mean by "I am"? You are individual, I am individual. How I exact my individuality, and how you exact your individuality? What is the symptom? What is the meaning of "I am"? First of all you have to understand, what do you mean by "I am"? "I am" means my activities, "I am." That is "I am."



Śyāmasundara: My activities.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So try to understand, "I am" means my activities. So how my activities are going on? Presently we can see my activities are going on by the movements of my senses, of the limbs of the body. Therefore we come to the point that the moving force is "I am."



Śyāmasundara: That which moves the limbs.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That moving force, if "I am," then I am not this body, because as soon as the moving force from the body is gone, the body is of no value.



Śyāmasundara: They would say that then "I" cease to exist. Then "I am" no more. When the body dies, then I am no more.



Prabhupāda: Then how do you come to "I am"? "No more" means you came to the existence of "I am." How did you come to exist as "I am"? If you say that after the stoppage of movements of the body, when there is no more "I am," then how this "I am" came into existence? That is the question. Wherefrom this movement came?



Śyāmasundara: They say that the condition or the evidence required to know if this is true, that I came from...



Prabhupāda: The first thing is that if I identify myself with the body, the body means movements of the limbs. Now if something is wanting, and the limbs do not move any more... But that moving force is "I am."



Śyāmasundara: They would say that it is a combination of chemicals or some...



Devānanda: They postulated... The French philosophers at one point postulated that within the matter itself there is a potential of consciousness. They called it elan vital, living potential within matter, and when you put the matter together in certain positions, then that living potential is able to come out, and when the material nature changes again, it is no longer manifested.



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense, because when the body becomes from the lump of matter, why that living potentiality, consciousness, does not come again?



Devānanda: Because the elements are no longer in suitable arrangement for life to be...



Prabhupāda: If you know the elements, you say that "You add this element." Just like when the motorcar stops for want of gas, you take gasoline from the petroleum store and it starts again. Either you do it, otherwise you are rascal, you are putting some wrong theory. If you say that it is a combination of chemicals, and you know that addition, that these living symptoms are there, then bring that chemical and add to it and let the body go out again. If you cannot do that, then you are nonsense. There is no sense of your statement.



Devānanda: So in other words, if a body dies from heart failure, they should immediately be able to remove that heart and put in a fresh heart from somebody who has just died, and it will come back to life. But it doesn't do that.



Prabhupāda: No. There are so many other things, and not only one case of heart failure.



Devānanda: But there are many, for example...



Prabhupāda: Don't you...



Śyāmasundara: We want to stick to Wittgenstein.



Prabhupāda: The main principle is when the body is called dead, why don't you put some chemicals and make it alive again? You say something is wanted. What is that something? That you do not know. But we can say what is that something. We say that something is the soul. That is wanting.



Śyāmasundara: So far that proposition, you said "I am" means that the soul exists. That is your proposition.



Prabhupāda: My proposition is that "I am" means I am the soul, spirit soul, not this body.



Śyāmasundara: So they say that if we are to verify this proposition, to prove that it is true, then we have to know what conditions under which it is true. What are those conditions under which it is true?



*Prabhupāda: It is very simple. So long the soul is there, it is moving, and as soon as the soul is out, it is not moving. Anyone can understand. You say something is wanting. I say it is soul, definitely. But you do not know what is that something. Therefore your knowledge is imperfect, my knowledge is perfect. My knowledge is supported by Bhagavad*-gītā, but your knowledge has no support; therefore your knowledge is nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: In order for that statement or that proposition to be true, there must be evidence.



Prabhupāda: This is evidence: that there is no soul. The self, the individual soul, is now departed; therefore this body is lump of matter. This is evidence. And because the soul is there, therefore the body changes or develops. Just like if a child is born dead, then the body does not develop or changes. It remains in the same condition. But so long the soul is there, the child grows or changes his body. That is evidence. Because the soul is there, therefore the child is growing or changing body from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth. Suppose a child is born, doctor says it is dead child. You say something is wanted, but what is that something? You do not know. Otherwise, if you know, you add it. What is that something? Suggest, what is that something? Simply vague idea something, that is nonsense idea. That is not science. You must give, "This is wanting." Suppose that you say that the blood, the redness, just like nowadays blood supply is the theory, so what is this blood? Blood is a liquid, red liquid, like chemical or something, with some salt. So you can add salt, just like in cholera cases, they add saline injection. So dead body, you give saline injection, make it red by some color, give him life. If you say that "Red blood is now white," so make it red. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. There are so many chemicals. If you say the redness is the life, then there are many natural products, just like jewels, by nature it is red. Why is it not alive? Why it is not alive? By natural redness of something, if you say that is the cause of life, then there are many jewels. What is called, jewels?



Śyāmasundara: Ruby.



Prabhupāda: Ruby. Why it is not alive? Redness is there. Therefore we have to accept your identification with the soul, not with this body; otherwise this is nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: He is not disputing that there is soul or there is not soul. He is merely putting forward a principle to test something, if it is true or false.



Prabhupāda: This is the test. This is the test. Because the soul is there, therefore the body is moving.



Śyāmasundara: So that is the evidence for...



Prabhupāda: That is the evidence. Anyone can see. Now we say, "My father is gone. Oh, my father is gone." Where has he gone? Your father is lying there. Why do you say gone?



Devānanda: They say he has passed away. But what is passed away?



Prabhupāda: Passed away... What is this passed away? That means you have not seen your father. You have not seen your father, still you identify the body as your father. Or your father identifies your body as yourself. Just like the father has not seen the son, the son has not seen the father. Therefore it is illusion.



Śyāmasundara: The movement of the body is evidence that the soul exists.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only evidence. Because the soul is there, that individual soul.



Devānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when death comes, at the moment... Before death, the whole body is alive, completely alive and functioning, and in a split second it's all finished, completely dead. That would be an evidence that it is not a chemical combination. If it were a chemical combination it would die slowly.



Prabhupāda: The reason is that the soul, when quitting this body, there is examination what kind of body he is going to get. Superior examination. Either you call nature or God, there is superior... According to his karma he will get a body. Now, that requires a little time. So what kind of body this soul will get? As soon as it is decided, then immediately he's transferred to that kind of body, and this body remains there.



Śyāmasundara: This would also, it seems, satisfy his second requirement for verification, that sense observation or information ultimately derived by means of sense observation is necessary for verification.



Prabhupāda: This is sense observation. It not nonsensical; *it is complete sense, sensible, that now this soul has passed and quit this body*-death. So the body is not the man; the soul is the man. This is quite sensible. It is not nonsensical. Otherwise how do you explain? You explain what is that distinction between dead body and living body. What is your sensible explanation, according to this philosopher?



Śyāmasundara: He isn't quibbling with that. His only philosophy was that he was putting forward ways of determining what is true and what is false.



Prabhupāda: So that is evidence that this body is false, the soul is true. That is our statement. Body is false. Just like this, this (indistinct), this sweater, this is false. It has got a hand but it is false hand. The real hand is within, within the shirt, that is real hand. Similarly, this body also. It is compared with dress. The dress is false. The man who puts on the dress, he is true. Similarly, the soul is the truth and the body is false. If you want to make distinction between false and true, then this is the distinction: the soul is the truth, the body is false.



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is that mental activity which seeks to analyze or clarify the meanings of scientific propositions.



Prabhupāda: This is philosophy: to study what is this body and how it is moving. This is analytical study. And you come to the understanding that the body is a dead lump of matter, there is something which is called the soul. Because the soul is there. This is scientific truth. One who has not this knowledge, he is not scientific; he is foolish.



Śyāmasundara: In other words, if you make a scientific proposition that "Because I am, the body moves," that is your scientific proposition?



Prabhupāda: Yes, this is scientific proposition.



Śyāmasundara: Then philosophy is a clarification of that proposition.



*Prabhupāda: Clarification... It is supported by the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. He says that, the greatest authority, God Himself, He says that as the body's changing in different phases of my life, similarly, ultimately, at the end, this body is left and another body is accepted. That is scientific. It is not our bogus proposition. It is supported by the whole Vedic knowledge and especially by Kṛṣṇa, and who can be greater authority than Kṛṣṇa? That will be scientific. Just like modern science: if somebody proves some theory and it is accepted by the scientific world, then it is accepted as scientific; similarly, our proposition is accepted by Kṛṣṇa, the greatest scientist; therefore it is fact. But you have no support by the scientists, what you say; therefore your proposition is nonsense. My proposition is accepted by the greatest scientist. He has created this whole world.



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophers present old facts in new light, but philosophers do not discover any new facts.



Prabhupāda: Because they're all rascals and fools, what they can discover? (laughter) They simply theorize on their rascaldom, that's all. That is their business. (indistinct) There is no fact. And those who are rascals, they believe them. That's all. So we are not such rascals, because our knowledge is received from the greatest scientist, Kṛṣṇa. I personally may be rascal, but because I follow the greatest scientist, therefore my proposition is scientific. I do not know how this dictaphone is working, but somebody has said "This is dictaphone," I accept. And it is working. That is my scientific knowledge. I may not be the mechanic, but I am working.



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is a process which attempts to clarify God, not that itself it has factual content.



Prabhupāda: This is clarification. Mostly the people are under illusion, identifying the body with the self. But we are clarifying that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul." Therefore it is a scientific proposition.



Śyāmasundara: So we are clarifying a scientific proposition with our philosophy.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is it. Philosophy means the science of sciences. Another definition of philosophy is "the science of sciences." All sciences are derived from philosophy. So philosophy's actual position is on the higher level than the sciences.



Śyāmasundara: Another definition he has is that "Philosophy is the pursuit of meaning." Pursuit of meaning.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because philosophy is the searching out about the ultimate truth, therefore it is pursuit; *and the ultimate truth is meaning. That is nice. But there are different philosophers, and so far we are concerned, we know that the ultimate meaning is Kṛṣṇa, sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], the cause of all causes; therefore our philosophy is perfect. They are simply pursuing, but we have reached the goal. That is the difference. They are on the way, but we are on the spot. Is that right?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. (laughs) He says that the propositions of logic and mathematics are tautologies, he calls it, or uninformative assertions which state nothing factual about the world. Just like, for instance, "Two plus two equals four." On paper it is just two symbols: the symbol 2, and the symbol 2 and the symbol 4. But actually that is a void arrangement. It doesn't state anything factual about the world.



Prabhupāda: What does he want more practical?



Śyāmasundara: He says that these can be demonstrated but not verified.



Prabhupāda: Why not verified? Two rupees plus two rupees equal to four rupees. This is verified.



Śyāmasundara: But that's something else.



Prabhupāda: That is..., the mathematics is required for that purpose. You have got two rupees, I have got two rupees; *when combined together it becomes four rupees. That is mathematics. This is practical proof. Why does he say that there is no practical use? And philosopher, to become philosopher is not to become a nonsense. But because he theorizes something nonsensical, he's become a philosopher*-that is not philosophy. This mathematical truth is practically true.



Śyāmasundara: Let us say the proposition that "The sum of the angles of a triangle equals 180 degrees," that is a proposition. It can be demonstrated on paper but it cannot be verified by experiential data.



Devotee: If you're steering a ship you can make use of it, can't you?



Śyāmasundara: It can be made use of and it can be called valid or invalid.



Prabhupāda: What does he want more?



Śyāmasundara: He wants to know true and false. That this "Sum of the angles equal to 180 degrees" can be said to be valid or invalid, but it cannot be said to be true or false.



Prabhupāda: Then in that way, what he proposes, that is also false, because in this material world there is no truth. Everything is false. So his philosophical proposition is also false.



Śyāmasundara: Actually, he came to recognize that.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Then that's all right. Then why he is bothering about something false? That is another foolishness.



Devānanda: I thought that that was a Māyāvādī theory, that everything is false.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He wants to accept false, again make botheration.



Śyāmasundara: No. He does not say false, he says that the sum of the...



Prabhupāda: Better thing is that as we say, it is not false, but it is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't say true or false, he says that the sum of the angles...



Prabhupāda: Just now you said that it cannot be verified. That means false.



Śyāmasundara: It cannot be verified if it is true or false. But it can...



Prabhupāda: That means doubt. It is doubtful.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the proposition, "The sum of the angles of a triangle equals 180 degrees."



Prabhupāda: That is accepted by the scientists and mathematicians.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That can be said to be a valid proposition or an invalid proposition. Demonstrated.



Prabhupāda: Why invalid? It is valid because all mathematicians, all scientists, they have accepted it.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. It can be demonstrated that it is valid on paper. But it cannot be said that it is true or false by our experiential data.



Prabhupāda: No. That can be said, it is false, because in this world everything is a temporary manifestation. So this world itself is a temporary manifestation. This big sky and this planet and everything is a temporary manifestation.



Śyāmasundara: So even that law is temporary, that "The sum of the angles equals 180 degrees"?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: That's only temporary.



Prabhupāda: Temporary in this sense: because the existence of this universe is also temporary. So whatever is there is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: But even when this universe ends, doesn't that law carry on?



Prabhupāda: Just like this waterpot. This waterpot, you can say false or true. False means when it breaks, then it no longer will be waterpot; it becomes earth again. From the earth it is made, and again it becomes earth. Therefore the shape of this waterpot is not false but temporary. That is the right word. It will not remain as earthen pot for very long time. It will break, and when it breaks, it again becomes earth, from which it was made; therefore this shape is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: That example of the pot, we can verify if it is true or false by our senses.



Prabhupāda: The senses, it is also senses. I am taking it as waterpot, that is I am taking it by my senses. But the shape of the waterpot is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: That can be proven.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever there is in this world, even this house, this big house, this is also temporary.



Śyāmasundara: But what about a principle, like "Two plus two equals four"?



*Prabhupāda: Principle is truth, but the manifestation is temporary. Principle... Just like earth. Just like we hear from Bhagavad*-gītā, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca: [Bg. 7.4] "This earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, ego, they are My separated energies." And because it is Kṛṣṇa's energy, and Kṛṣṇa is true, therefore that energy is true. But this interaction of the energy, manifestation of different things out of that energy, that is temporary. Therefore it is called material energy or external energy, temporary manifestation.



Śyāmasundara: What about the proposition that "Two plus two equals four"?



Prabhupāda: That is also temporary.



Śyāmasundara: That disappears when this universe disappears?



Prabhupāda: Yes. When the universe disappears, everything disappears. Who is going to calculate "Two plus two equals four"? Everything is finished.



Śyāmasundara: The principle does not carry on, despite...



Prabhupāda: The principle will carry on when again there will be manifestation. Just like this waterpot, it breaks, it becomes earth, and again from earth we make waterpot. Therefore this principle that the waterpot is made out of earth, that is a fact, but the waterpot as we see, that is temporary. Creation of the waterpot from earth is a fact. Similarly, this material world is a creation out of Kṛṣṇa's external energy. That is a fact. Kṛṣṇa's energy is fact. Kṛṣṇa is fact.



Śyāmasundara: What about something that cannot be tangibly seen, like a mathematical calculation or an equation?



Prabhupāda: You cannot see so many things. That does not mean that it does not exist. Your power of seeing is limited. Why you are depending on seeing?



Śyāmasundara: No. I want to take something that we all know, like "Two plus two equals four," that principle. There's no waterpot or anything visible involved, just a purely abstract principle, "Two plus two equals four."



Prabhupāda: Abstract or concrete, it doesn't matter. What is abstract for you is concrete for other. [break] ...Kṛṣṇa is concrete. Paraṁ satya, actually that is the only truth. So this idea, abstract and concrete, that is relative.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the idea, "The sum of the angles of a triangle equal 180 degrees."



Prabhupāda: This is calculation.



Śyāmasundara: It is calculation, but there's no...



Prabhupāda: Relative knowledge, because we cannot know beyond 180 degrees according to your geometrical calculation. But your calculation, everything is imperfect because you are imperfect. So because it is going on, for our purpose we take it as truth. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: It's only working in two planes, or two dimensions.



Prabhupāda: Just like this body. This body, I can say is false, but suppose somebody kills somebody, he cannot argue that it is a false thing. If it is killed, why the state should by so much anxious about it if it a false? No. Even it is temporary, even if it's false, but it has got temporary use. You cannot disturb that use.



Śyāmasundara: He says that propositions pertaining to metaphysical realities such as we have been talking about, like the soul, he says they are neither chronological, that is uninformative assertions, neither are they empirical propositions. So it is impossible to demonstrate either their validity or to verify them.



Prabhupāda: Why?



Śyāmasundara: Statements like "the soul," "I am the soul."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: We can neither say that is valid or invalid, neither we can say it is...



Prabhupāda: It is valid. It is not invalid, it is valid. You cannot understand it. Try to understand it. It is valid. "I am the soul," that's a valid proposition. How you can say invalid?



Devānanda: He also says that it cannot be demonstrated also.



Prabhupāda: This is demonstration. Demonstration, this is demonstration, that as soon as I go, actually I go (indistinct). That is demonstration. What do you want more demonstration?



Śyāmasundara: He says we have to know what conditions are required to show that it is true and then satisfy those conditions. So one condition you say is that as soon as the body dies, then there is no more movement. But what is there to prove that the soul has left the body or that there was ever a soul in the body?



*Prabhupāda: That is the proof. Because the soul takes shelter into the womb of the mother, the father injects the soul-that is the statement of the śāstras*-in the womb of the mother, and the mother gives shelter. So the body develops from the womb of the mother. There is conception, pregnancy. That is the proof.



Śyāmasundara: Ultimately there is nothing to measure, when the body dies, to determine where that soul went.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can measure by knowledge. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā has said, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā [Bg. 14.18]. Just like a man has committed murder, killed somebody. He is arrested, he is taken away from your sight, but you can know that he has committed murder, he will be hanged. That's all. You do not require to go there and see that he is hanged. It doesn't require. That is foolishness. If somebody says that "I did not see that the man was arrested," that's all right, but "I did not see that he was hanged. I cannot believe it," no. You believe or not believe, it is a fact.



Śyāmasundara: So what he is saying is that because you can't see the soul after it leaves the body, therefore we cannot say if the soul exists or does not exist.



Prabhupāda: But why does he believe of his eyes so much? Why does he not accept that his eyes are so imperfect that he cannot see the soul?



Śyāmasundara: Either directly or indirectly he says that we have to be able to prove...



Prabhupāda: No. The same example, just like a man has committed murder and he is arrested and taken away. So others, they know that this man will be hanged. And one was, "Oh, I have not seen, so how he is hanged?" But that is foolishness. The state law says that if a man has committed murder he will be hanged. So you have to see through the law, not with your eyes. The nonsense eyes, what can they see? So see through knowledge, through books.



Śyāmasundara: So our ultimate verification does not rest with our senses but with the authoritative...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Authoritative knowledge, that is real seeing. That is real seeing. Just like we have not seen Kṛṣṇa, take for example. Then all we are fools and rascals, that we are after Kṛṣṇa? People may say that "You have not seen Kṛṣṇa. Why you are after so much, Kṛṣṇa?" They can say. But then you are all set of fools. Does it mean that we are all set of fools? Then how we have seen Kṛṣṇa?



Śyāmasundara: Wittgenstein, in that respect he answers that these metaphysical or mystical ideas, even though they are not expressed in words, can be felt or appreciated without knowing whether it is true.



Prabhupāda: No. That is knowing. To know through authorities, that is knowing. That is real knowing. That is the process of Vedic knowledge: to know through the authorities. The same example: if somebody is asking, "Who is my father?" then he has to know through the authority of mother; otherwise there is no other way. So therefore to know through authority is perfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: These modern scientists, they fall back on that idea that "Well, I accept that there is something mystical or metaphysical, but because I don't know it is truth, still I appreciate it." Or "It cannot be experienced, we must consign it to science."



Prabhupāda: Truth is truth. Either we appreciate or not appreciate, it does not matter. Truth is truth.



Śyāmasundara: So they fall back on kind of a blind faith...



Prabhupāda: But you are in blind faith. Those who do not accept the authorities, they are in blind faith. Just like one who does not know that what is soul, he is in blind faith, accepting this body as self. He is in blind faith.



Śyāmasundara: He has no real evidence that my self is the body either.



*Prabhupāda: He is blind, because it is not the fact. The evidence is there, but he is in blind faith. The whole world is working in blind faith-"I am Pakistani," "I am Hindustani," "I am American," "I am Englishman." Simply bodily identification. The whole world is a set of fools only. That's all. That is stated in the śāstras: yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who accepts this bag of three dhātus, kapha, pitta, vāyu, as self, he is an ass.



Śyāmasundara: He says that atomic propositions, or the components of compound propositions, depend for their validity upon the reliability with which they accurately picture atomic facts. In other words, suppose there is some proposition that this ring is gold. This proposition is part of a compound proposition which tells where the ring came from, how it was originated, who wore it, so many other facts. But only you take one proposition, "this ring is gold," he said this proposition depends upon the reliability with which it accurately pictures the facts, if it is true or false. That statement, "this ring is gold," it must determine how accurately it pictures the facts before we can say if it is valid or invalid proposition.



Prabhupāda: Suppose I say it is gold. What he will say? What is his proposition?



Śyāmasundara: He'll say that first of all you must give us a list of conditions to determine why it is gold, under what conditions it is gold.



Prabhupāda: That is everything. That he is speaking also, that is another condition.



Śyāmasundara: There must be certain conditions met before...



Prabhupāda: But how he is speaking is also fact, that he is speaking under certain conditions. Everything in this material world, that is on condition. So his philosophizing is also under condition. So everything is conditioned. Why does he not understand first of all himself, instead of trying to understand what is gold? Everything is conditioned.



Śyāmasundara: If we listed for some conditions that it must weigh a certain amount, it must have a certain color, it must have a certain texture, like that...



Prabhupāda: That is already there. Those who are chemists, they know what is the characteristics of gold. That is already there, recorded. So what does he want?



Śyāmasundara: This is part of his system for analyzing what is true or untrue.



Prabhupāda: That analysis is there. It may not be with me, it may not be with you, but it is already there. But what he will do with that analysis? What is his aim?



Śyāmasundara: Well, we can satisfy his conditions and then determine if it is true that this ring is gold.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many conditions. After, at the end, the conditions come to atom, atomic theory. But the atom is also conditioned, aṇḍāntara*-sthaṁ paramāṇu cayāntara-stham. Kṛṣṇa is within the atom also; therefore the atom is not absolute or independent. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate fact.



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



That we have know, that He is the cause of all causes.



Śyāmasundara: So, for instance, the ring may be gold under one set of conditions...



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is gold under certain conditions, but the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. Everything. Under certain conditions something is wood, something is gold, something is metal, something is this, something is... These are different conditions. I am also conditioned. Under certain conditions I am talking that "I am human being." Otherwise animal, he is under certain conditions, he is an animal. So everyone is under conditions. Who is not under conditions? Everything is under conditions. Therefore this world is called conditioned world or relative world. Nothing is absolute.



Śyāmasundara: He says that a proposition is a...



Prabhupāda: It is gold, gold means it is a metal, a combination of metals. There are eight types of metals, and gold is combination of tin, copper and mercury.



*Śyāmasundara: There is a basic element*-gold.



Prabhupāda: Not basic. It is a combination of different elements, different metals.



Śyāmasundara: According to the chemists, there are 108 basic elements, and gold is one of them.



Prabhupāda: That may be, but I say that what you call gold is a combination of other metals. So gold, this is not absolute. This is relative. Because other metals have combined together, it is now known as gold. Similarly, the whole world is combination of different material elements, and the gross elements are this earth, water, fire, air, ether.



Śyāmasundara: What about..., they say that there is a basic atom called a hydrogen atom.



Prabhupāda: Whatever you will call it, it is also matter. The minute particles are matter. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: That's right. Inside these molecules there are atoms, and inside the atoms there are more particles, and it goes on, smaller and smaller.



Prabhupāda: Yes. These are all matter.



Śyāmasundara: He says that a proposition is a picture of reality, a picture is a model of reality, a picture is a fact, the world is a totality of facts, the totality of true thoughts is a picture of the world.



Prabhupāda: Totality of not facts, that is a combination of gross matter, combination of gross and subtle matter. But this gross and subtle matter are projection of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore totalities, they can be said Kṛṣṇa's external energy. And because Kṛṣṇa's energy, the energy and energetic, sometimes separated, sometimes mixed up; when separated, it manifests as something creation; *when it is mixed up, the energy is no longer*-it is merged into the energetic. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate cause.



Śyāmasundara: So the picture of reality is always changing? There are no set combinations?



Prabhupāda: Reality is not changing. The combination of different energies is changing. Reality is not changing.



Śyāmasundara: So true thoughts are not changing.



Prabhupāda: Reality is Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa has got unlimited number of energies, so the combination of different energy is making some manifestation and they are changing.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the totality of true thoughts is the picture of the world. So that picture does not change. The true thoughts do not change. So the world is not actually...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Conservation of energy. Everything rests ultimately in energy, and the energy ultimately rests in Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we say that everything ultimately rests in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate cause, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the cause of everything."



*Śyāmasundara: He says that language is a picture of reality*-language, words, a picture of reality. Just like we are speaking now. We are making pictures of reality as we speak with our language, with our words. Do these words have more content in themselves, or are they simply pictures of reality?



Prabhupāda: Language is a sort of expression to understand reality. Language is not reality.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that propositions or statements of ideas provide merely the form, telling us not what things are but how they are, but only how they are.



Prabhupāda: As well as what they are. If they are how they are, then what they are can also be explained.



Śyāmasundara: Just like if I describe this picture, I cannot really say what it is, but only how it is, what it is like, how it is.



Prabhupāda: What is the difference, "how it is" and "what it is"? What is the difference? It is simply jugglery of words. If I can say how it is, I can say what it is.



*Śyāmasundara: He says what it is can only be experienced by the other senses*-by seeing it, touching it.



*Prabhupāda: In this sense, how it is, of course it can be explained like that. Ultimately, what it is means just like this gold, I said that how it is-a combination of other metals is gold, that is how it is. But what it is, that we have to research further. Just like how it is*-a combination of copper, tin and mercury. Now, then what it is, we will have to make inquiry wherefrom this mercury comes, wherefrom this tin comes, wherefrom the copper comes. That is what it is. Therefore Vedic language it is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman." That is what it is.



Śyāmasundara: (laughing) So we can explain how it is molded into different ways.



Prabhupāda: That is how it is, how it has become gold. But ultimately it is Brahman, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman.



Śyāmasundara: He says that therefore most philosophical propositions are not false, but they are devoid of sensory facts, of sense content; therefore they are nonsensical.



Prabhupāda: Therefore he is also nonsensical.



Śyāmasundara: He comes to that. (laughter) When a genuine proposition...



Prabhupāda: Then why is he after so much nonsensical things? Just to show he's...



Śyāmasundara: In order to find out what is a genuine proposition, he says that a genuine proposition presents the sense content and shows how things stand if it is true.



Prabhupāda: This is sense content, that sarvaṁ khalv, "Everything is Brahman." Everything is Brahman.



Śyāmasundara: But how does that give us sense content? What does that mean to my sense observations?



Devānanda: Isn't there a way... There is a way of perceiving that everything is Brahman. It can be perceived. We cannot perceive it now, but it can be perceived.



*Prabhupāda: But the true knowledge, that ultimately Brahman is the ultimate cause. So Brahman has got different energies, and the multiple energies, they are combined together, and they manifest in different phases. Therefore Brahman is the cause of all causes. That is the Vedānta*-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Brahman means wherefrom everything is emanating.



Śyāmasundara: But this statement, "Everything is Brahman," that seems to me devoid of sensory fact, of sense content. Therefore he says it is nonsensical, because I cannot experience it as a sensory experience. How does that have sense content, that statement?



Prabhupāda: That means whatever does not come through his senses, that is not true.



Śyāmasundara: No. But whatever cannot be experienced is not true.



Prabhupāda: Experience means by sense experience. That means whatever is not under direct perception, sense experience, that is false.



Śyāmasundara: Either direct or indirect. But how can I experience that statement that "Everything is Brahman"?



Prabhupāda: Indirect is there. Just like we accept that everything has got some cause. So I am a person; the cause is my person father, and his father is also person. Similarly, the ultimate father, the original father, although I have not seen, I cannot sense perceive, still, I must conclude that He is a person.



Śyāmasundara: But I think behind your statement "Everything is Brahman," there are also statements which show the person how to experience Brahman.



Prabhupāda: This is Brahman. Brahman means the greatest. Greatest.



Śyāmasundara: But when you say "Everything is Brahman," you are also willing to include another set of propositions which show how to experience Brahman, how one can experience this fact, "Everything is Brahman."



Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Just like this International Society. Originally I started, so in any center, I am there. I am there. My photograph is there, I am there, accepting, Bhaktivedanta Swami. So personally I am not there, but I still am there by my expansion of energy. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original Brahman. Whatever we see, we perceive, experience, it's all Kṛṣṇa's expansion of energy. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: His attack, then, is not upon your statement "Everything is Brahman," because you are also proposing other propositions which show how to experience that everything is Brahman. His attack is upon philosophy that is empty or devoid of sense contact.



Prabhupāda: That is not empty. Suppose...



Devotee: He would say that if we can demonstrate that everything is Brahman, then it is not empty philosophy; then it is factual philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: His attack is with other philosophies that merely state that "This is that, this is that," but have no sense contact, are devoid of any sense meaning.



Devotee: Cannot be perceived. The truth cannot be perceived. If the truth cannot be perceived, then what good is the philosophy?



Prabhupāda: Truth can be perceived.



Devānanda: We can show; therefore our philosophy is good. He would agree, this philosophy is good because we cannot only state with authority what is the truth, we can reasonably establish it and we can demonstrate it also.



Prabhupāda: And perceive also.



Devānanda: Yes. We can demonstrate it.



Devotee: I have a question, that if he says that that philosophy which is good, which can be verified by observation or fact, and he comes to the conclusion that his philosophy is nonsense, I'd like to find out how he arrives at this kind of a conclusion.



Śyāmasundara: We're coming to that. He says that the propositions must describe the object completely by means of logical scaffolding, exhibiting logical form of reality, and whatever cannot be shown cannot be said, either. So he says that if we purport to show reality by our words...



Prabhupāda: What is the process of showing?



Śyāmasundara: By language, that our structure of language must be logically complete and that it must also be able to be seen or it cannot be said. Whatever cannot be shown cannot be said either.



*Prabhupāda: Then logically complete... Suppose I have my father, I've seen my father, or I've seen my grandfather, or I've seen my great*-grandfather, but because I cannot see the father of great-grandfather does not mean that there was no great-grandfather. Logically it is real, that the father of my great-grandfather was also a human being, he had two hands, two legs, and one head. That is logical, even though I have not seen. What is illogical? So it does not mean that things which we sometimes do not see, it is not logical. You cannot say like that. Because they are not seen, that is also logical.



Śyāmasundara: But that statement, "It can be seen that my father had a father had a father," that can be seen.



Prabhupāda: No. That is not seen; that is perceived. Perceived. (Sanskrit) It is called (Sanskrit). I can think of like that, yes. That is perception.



Śyāmasundara: So in order for us to say like that, something that cannot be shown cannot be said, he says. That if we say something...



Prabhupāda: Even if it cannot be shown, it is a fact. Not that because it cannot be shown, it is not a fact.



Śyāmasundara: But everything you say, you are also showing, you are also giving examples that we can perceive. Just like the body, you say the soul has left the body so the body does not move. So even though it cannot be seen, the soul is leaving the body.



Prabhupāda: "It cannot be seen" means you have no seeing power. You cannot see beyond this wall, but that does not mean that because it cannot be seen, that is not fact. That is another foolishness. You have no seeing power. You admit your imperfection. Why you are proposing like that, "Because it cannot be seen"?



Śyāmasundara: No. Because it cannot be shown, he says. But it can be shown.



Prabhupāda: It can be shown, but you have no eyes to see. That is my proposal. Your eyes are just as blind man. If he says that "Show me this," how he can see? He is blind man. So you are blind, you cannot see, but those who have eyes, they can see. Therefore they say, śāstra cakṣuṣa: don't believe those eyes. Śāstra cakṣuṣa. Make the śāstra your cakṣuṣa. That is Vedic position. Don't see with these naked eyes. What is the value of your eyes? Why are you so much proud of your eyes? You cannot see. You see under certain conditions. Therefore adhaksi(?) Adhaksi means those who believe only the eyes. And what is the value of the eyes? That you won't admit, that "I am blind." He won't say. He will say simply, "I cannot see." How you can see? You're blind. That he won't admit, that he's blind. He will simply say that "I cannot see; therefore I don't agree." But you are blind!



Śyāmasundara: It seems to me, in all of your propositions, you are also showing by practical example how this is true. You do not... It's not in the air, so we cannot perceive it in some way.



Prabhupāda: Nothing is in the air. Everything is fact. But if somebody says, although it is fact, "I cannot see, therefore it is not fact," that is not a good proposal.



Śyāmasundara: You give the evidence: the body is suddenly stopping moving. That is evidence. Even though we cannot see the soul, perhaps, but the evidence is there.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like on a cloudy day we cannot see the sun, but because there is light, so we say, "Yes, there is sun."



Śyāmasundara: Evidence.



Prabhupāda: Evidence. Similarly, the evidence is the moving capacity. Because the body is moving, there is soul. It doesn't matter if you can see or not see. It doesn't matter. When the motor is moving, there is gas. You may not see the gas. It is foolishness, that "I have not seen the gas. When it is put in?" [break] ...dark, now it is light. How I am saying there is a darkness? It is (indistinct)



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: What is past, present, future for a man is not the past, present, future for Brahmā. Therefore this past, present, future is relative. And Kṛṣṇa is eternal. He has no past, present and future.



Devotee: I can understand how the past and future can be...



Prabhupāda: Past, present and future is relative to your body. Because you have got a limited body, therefore you have got past, present, future. Otherwise there is no past, present, future.



Devotee: But there is present for everyone.



Devotee (2): But that is also due to that body.



Devotee: But the past and the future are simply reminiscences and projections of (indistinct), but the present is existing for everyone.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That past means, just like what you say. The past, present, future for an ant is different from your past, present, future.



Devotee: Why?



Prabhupāda: Because your body is different.



Devotee: The experience of the past, present and the future is different.



Prabhupāda: My point is there is no past, present, future. This experience is gathered according to your body.



Devotee: The experiences are different, but it doesn't alter the (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) actually there is no past, present, future. That is my position.



Devotee: In the same way, the Buddhists say there is no soul. They say that the soul is completely dependent upon the body.



Prabhupāda: That we can reply. Why there is no soul? What is the distinction between that, that we already discussed. Don't bother about that.



Devotee: We would say there is no past, or is our perception of the past is false?



Prabhupāda: Time is eternal. There is no past, present, future. We perceive past, present, future due to this body. Just like Kṛṣṇa has no past, present, future.



Śyāmasundara: Wittgenstein noted that his own propositions are nonsensical; that is, they are devoid of any sense content. Therefore he held that...



Prabhupāda: Why he is bothering all nonsensical (indistinct)?



Śyāmasundara: He held that at first we must transcend that, in order to view the world correctly.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are. (laughter)



Devotee: We are transcending.



Prabhupāda: Let him study philosophy from us.



Śyāmasundara: Even his verification principles cannot be verified by any other criterion; *therefore it is self*-refuting. And moreover, this limits the person, the individual, to his own sense experience. So how can the individual refer to himself as part of an existing but not yet experienced external world? In other words, if a person followed his philosophy strictly, he would not be able to put himself in the context of the world.



Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult to understand. Just like when there is summer, every one of us experiences heat. When there is winter, every one of use experiences cold. Therefore we are part and parcel of the Supreme. When there is spring season, all the trees immediately become full of foliage. When there is winter season, all the foliage, all the leaves, they fall down. So therefore there is one (indistinct) and we are part and parcel of that. When there is winter season you cannot say that "I am not feeling cold." You cannot say that. (aside:) So you are not going?



Devotee: (indistinct) twelve o'clock.



Śyāmasundara: Earlier in his philosophy he said that there is only one language of terms which portray reality. In other words, there is only one definite set of language terms that portray reality.



*Prabhupāda: That is brahma, brahma*-sattva. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. That is reality.



Śyāmasundara: Later he said that it's the way in which a word is used, not its meaning as a name for some object, which gives a language a statement for validity. In other words, the way we use words, not that words in themselves have absolute meaning, but the way we use them.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you use one word, it has got some meaning. When you say "Brahman," it has got some meaning. "Brahman" means nothing is greater than Brahman. When you use the word Brahman it means nothing is greater that Brahman.



Śyāmasundara: But that statement, "Nothing is greater than," if you use it in another context, say with three or four objects, and you say that "nothing," meaning these three objects, "is greater than this object," that is another...



Prabhupāda: No. Any object you bring. When I say "God is great," anything you bring, nothing is greater than God. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says when we ask, for example, "What is the meaning of the word good..." He says we must inquire as to how we learn the meaning of the word good, what its functions have been, and strive to clarify its use, not as a picture of reality but as a tool for describing, recording, and asserting facts or ideas.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) limited science, when you are in the limited material world, good means which satisfies my senses good. That is good. And bad means which does not satisfy my senses. But so far my senses are concerned, this is temporary (indistinct); therefore in this material world, the conceptions of good and bad, they are all the same. Real goodness is God. God is good. That is good.



Devotee: Jaya! Haribol! Haribol!



Śyāmasundara: So he is saying...



Prabhupāda: Everything which is not God, that is bad. That is real goodness.



Śyāmasundara: He says it's how we use the word good, not what the word good means.



Prabhupāda: Good means, I already explained, which satisfies my senses. That is good. But God is good. He satisfies my senses and all others' senses. The relative good is it may satisfy my senses but it may not satisfy your senses. Therefore it is not good. Therefore what is good to me is not good to you. One man's food is another man's poison. Therefore this is relative good.



Śyāmasundara: Something which satisfies God's senses, that is real good.



Prabhupāda: That is absolute.



Śyāmasundara: So even words, if they are used to satisfy God...



Prabhupāda: That is good. Anything that satisfies God, that is good. Just like Arjuna was thinking fighting is bad, but when he understood that this fighting will be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, therefore it is good. So how the same bad thing becomes good? Because it satisfies Kṛṣṇa. So anything which satisfies Kṛṣṇa, that is good. Anything which does not satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is bad.



Śyāmasundara: His final statement was that philosophy must describe the actual uses of language, never interfere with it, in order to achieve clarification. In other words...



*Prabhupāda: This is clear clarification, that God is the Supreme, God is all*-good; therefore what satisfies God, that is good. What will satisfy God, that is nice.



Śyāmasundara: So our philosophy describes the actual uses of words. There may be the word good and several...



Prabhupāda: Otherwise why you are chanting the words Hare Kṛṣṇa? There are also words.



Śyāmasundara: There may be ten philosophies, and each one will purport this same word good differently. But real philosophy is (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Absolute good means to satisfy God.



Śyāmasundara: The use of a word, not exactly what the word means, but the use of it, how it is used.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: There's one more quote. He says, "Don't ask for the meaning, ask for the use of a word." In other words, we don't say if good means this or that; we say how it is used.



Prabhupāda: If it is used for God, it is good.



Devotee: So he doesn't present a philosophy; he presents a method, a methodology, but not a philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: No. His philosophy describes the actual use of language. That is philosophy. So any philosophy that describes how language is used, that's proper philosophy.



Devotee: He doesn't describe how to use language; he describes principles for judging how to use language. But he has not himself described how to use language. So therefore he has not presented a philosophy. He has presented so many methods for presenting philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: But those methods, they are also philosophy.



Devotee: The philosophy of presenting philosophy, but no philosophy itself.



Devotee (2): But philosophy is meant to understand the ultimate goal of life. What does he say the ultimate goal of life is? What is his ultimate goal of life?



Prabhupāda: That they do not know.



Devotee: He said you have to transcend what he presented to find out what that ultimate goal of life is. So anybody...



Śyāmasundara: His philosophy is an active attempt to clarify.



Devotee: Clarify what? What is he clarifying?



Prabhupāda: Clarify his nonsense. He is talking all nonsense. That will be clarified.



Devotee: Some of his principles for ascertaining truth are all right; some of them are not so good. But he has himself not tried to present the truth at all. He has simply tried to present a way of ascertaining truth.



Devotee (2): (indistinct)



Devotee: But how can he ascertain truth if he doesn't know what the truth is?



Devotee (3): He didn't say that he did. He said it was nonsense, that you had to go beyond what he said to find out the truth.



Devotee: That's not much of a philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Actually one of his students, John (indistinct) at Oxford, er, Cambridge, he is still living now, he has written an important book for modern theology which applies his philosophy to religion, where he says that we can see God everywhere, so even though we can't prove God in a way that the scientists require, still, this is enough, that we can see His evidence wherever we are. So this is proof that we should have belief in God, have faith in God. His students have been very godly, (indistinct) in a godly way.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



Viśāla: Śrīla Prabhupāda said sādhu means he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So unless you are a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, how can you be saintly or godly? Unless you are a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you are not godly.



Devotee: So what he is trying to ascertain is that God is the absolute truth.



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) as I recall he uses the example of the garden, that he sees in the garden the wisdom of logical arrangement, nice taste, so many things, so he concludes that because man can fill this garden or manipulate this garden, therefore there must be God.



Devotee: We also say like that, that there are so many nice arrangements that are universal, we see so many nice arrangements. There must be a...



Devotee (2): (indistinct)



Devotee (3): But the child will pick up a flower and look it and say, "It is so beautiful. Who has made it?" and then another child will answer, "God." (end)





MARITAIN.SYA



Jacques Maritain



Śyāmasundara: Today's philosopher is called Jacques Maritain, and he's a French..., contemporary French philosopher, very influential, and he's a religionist. He believes in a personal God.



Prabhupāda: Still living?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. His main philosophy is that existence and essence are both there; *that existence is not possible without essence. He defines existence to be..., er, essence to be potential and existence to be the actual. So that a thing, and everything that we can perceive, has both existence and, in other words, potentiality and actuality. For instance, this cup has the potentiality to be something else, to be a piece of metal, but in its actual form it is like this. But it has potentiality to become something else. So he says these two things*-the essence and the existence-exist simultaneously.



Prabhupāda: So we agree to this point. Just like soul, at the present moment you have got a certain type of body, human body, but the soul has potentiality to have a spiritual body or a dog's body. Both potentialities are there. So the essential is the soul, and the reality... It is not reality; *temporary form in the material body. But the potentiality as the soul has its own spiritual body. When it is uncontaminated by the material contamination, he remains only reality without any so*-called actuality or temporary form.



Śyāmasundara: He says that sense activity occurs on an immediate level of experience, without any conscious awareness of itself, but that true knowledge of reality comes through intuition, and that this reality is called being.



Prabhupāda: Intuity, also past experience. What you call intuition is past experience. Just like when a child is born, by intuition it seeks mother's breast. Because the child does not know where is food, but by intuition, as soon as the mother's breast is given, pushed in its mouth, he is satisfied immediately. So by..., this is called by intuition. But actually it is its past experience. The same child, as the soul, may have taken something else in a different body. So the fact is that the soul is wandering in different types of bodies, and when he comes to a particular type of body, he remembers everything from his past experience. Just like fifty years ago, when I was a businessman, so at that Gauḍīya Math, as soon as I go there, I remember all those things; I am again fifty years back. That is actual... So this, suppose if I say I am going, I do not require to be directed that "Here is this thing, here is that thing." Immediately I enter that town I will understand that if I have to go to the toilet, "Here it is." If I go to the kitchen, "Here it is." So you may call it intuition, but actually it is experience, past experience. There is no, nothing such thing as intuition. That is a vague expression. Actually it is past experience.



Śyāmasundara: He says that God, He is pure actuality. There is no potentiality.



Prabhupāda: Absolute.



Śyāmasundara: He is Absolute. He is pure existence and essence together, but that the..., everything else that exists besides God has these two characteristics of potentiality and actuality.



*Prabhupāda: That potentiality, actuality, it is material relativity. In the spiritual world there is same*-potentiality, reality-they're one. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, the rascal scholars, they think that Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul is different, as it is, what is called, expressed by Dr. Radhakrishnan. But that is not the fact. There is no such difference. Kṛṣṇa also says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā [Bg. 9.11]. Because He comes in a human form, rascals think of Him as ordinary human being. But He is not that. He is absolute. He has nothing to do with the body and soul as we have got. He is body and soul together-potentiality and the actuality. Similarly, anyone who gets a spiritual body, he also gets the same position. There will be no difference between actuality and potentiality.



Śyāmasundara: He says that God, or the divine intellect, perceives His own essence.



Prabhupāda: No. [break]



Śyāmasundara: He says that God perceives His own essence, and thus He..., everything else and all of the creation came into existence as a part of His essence of God. That everything is a part of God's essence and keeps coming into existence in different forms, different stages of actuality.



Prabhupāda: So that... They say everything is expansion of God's energy. The example is given in the Vedic śāstras, just like the fire is there in one place but the heat and light of the fire expand. Similarly, God, or Kṛṣṇa, is there in Goloka Vṛndāvana, but His energy, external energy and internal energy and marginal energy, they are expanding in this place. So what is his opinion of it?



Śyāmasundara: Well, these two types of energy he would call..., material energy he would call potential energy, and the spiritual energy, he would say is actual energy.



Prabhupāda: Well, actual, the energy is one, but it is working differently. Just like electricity is one, but it is working differently as cooler and heater, although cooling and heating are two opposites. Cooling is just opposite of heating, and heating is just opposite of cooling, but electric energy is working in both the places.



Śyāmasundara: Electric energy is also measured in terms of its potency, its potential.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So for God there is no such distinction; *therefore it is called kaivalya. For Him the material energy or the spiritual energy is the same. Therefore the Māyāvādīs, they cannot understand God. They think that Kṛṣṇa, when He comes, He accepts a material body. But even He accepts a material body, for Him there is no such distinction*-spiritual body and material body. He is..., He being omnipotent, He can act even in His material body as spiritual. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was present, accepting that He has a material body, but at the age of seven years old He lifted the big hill. That is not possible by the material body. Therefore, as omnipotent He can turn the material energy into spiritual energy and the spiritual energy into material energy. That is omnipotency. But those who are with poor fund of knowledge, they think that Kṛṣṇa has got this material body. Actually He has no such distinction, either material or... Just like electrical engineer, he knows how to tackle electric energy. He can convert the heater into refrigerator, and he can convert the refrigerator into heater, because he knows how to do it.



Śyāmasundara: There's another school of modern philosopher who has the same idea of existence and essence, but they say that there is only existence, that there is no essence, therefore there's no meaning to life.



Prabhupāda: No. According to our..., essence is reality; existence is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he opposes these philosophers by saying that there cannot be existence without essence.



Prabhupāda: That is our view also. Essence... Just like Śaṅkarācārya says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The existence is mithyā. He says mithyā. But we, Vaiṣṇava philosopher, we say not mithyā, not false, but temporary. But temporary. So mithyā we cannot say, because anything coming from God, it cannot be false, but it is temporary. He can change it as He likes; therefore it is temporary.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that existence is the coming into being of the essence.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: The inbetween stage he calls becoming.



*Prabhupāda: That is Brahman. Brahman is essence, and from Brahman is everything is coming out-janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So Brahman means everything is emanating. Now this janma is in reference to this material world. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as creation. Creation and annihilation, that is the nature of this material world. So when we speak of janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], it means the creation of the material world, but the original source of creation, that is eternal. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]*-the source from which everything is taking birth. So everything is taking birth means before the birth of everything there was the source wherefrom the birth is taking place. Just like child is born, and before the birth of the child the mother was existing. Similarly, before the creation of this material world, the source, Brahman, was there. Therefore Brahman is not matter. Brahman is not matter.



Śyāmasundara: Brahman is the essence.



Prabhupāda: Essence. The essence was there before the creation of the manifestation. That Brahman, Kṛṣṇa says, as Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ; *[SB 1.1.1] similarly Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the source of everything." And Brahma*-saṁhitā says, Kṛṣṇa..., sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], "the cause of all causes." So before creation, Kṛṣṇa was existing, or God was existing. Creation means matter. So the source of creation, God, or Kṛṣṇa, is not matter. It is spirit.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the essence of an entity is its intelligible nature, or that one can have ideas. This is proof that we are more than existence, that we are also essence.



Prabhupāda: No. This existence is temporary. Just like this, I have got this coat. This is also existence, but I may change it next time, but I am the essence. I am permanent. I am changing.



Śyāmasundara: He says this is proven by the fact that the senses, they can perceive the existence of something by feeling it or touching it or seeing it, but they can't say anything about it until the intelligence comes into play, and then intelligence says what it is and gives it being.



Prabhupāda: Intelligence says what is its cause.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. And he describes...



Prabhupāda: So that cause is find some cause and again you find out the cause, again you find the cause, and then you find out cause and effect, you study effect and find out the cause, then when you come to the ultimate cause, which has no other cause, then that is Kṛṣṇa, that is God. [break]



*Śyāmasundara: He says that the senses can say "This exists," but if they said something... The senses can say "This exists," but the indirect is what says "This being is." In other words, it describes what exists*-not only that something exists but what exists. So this intellect, or this being able to describe the essence of something, proves that we are made of this essence, that this is our real nature, that we are... It is not simply blindly existing but that there is some essence. He says that to exist means to act. He says actuality means continuous activities; there's no..., no rest.



*Prabhupāda: That is karma*-yoga. Because work, activities, why they are so active? Because they want to enjoy. That's all. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Everything that exists wants to enjoy?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Here in this material world, variety, working so hard for sense gratification. The same activity, we consider..., when it is converted in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is spiritual activity.



Śyāmasundara: So the essence of any object is its power to exist and be known. To be known.



*Prabhupāda: Mm. That is the basic principle of Vedānta*-sūtra: athāto brahma, what is the basic platform, how is it. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. That is intelligence. That is intelligence.



Śyāmasundara: Intelligence is the basic...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. No. By intelligence one can inquire what is the cause of this. Jijñāsu. It is called jijñāsu. Those who are not jijñāsus, śreya uttamam, they are third class. Just like animals, they cannot ask, "What is its cause?" That is animal life. And human life means when the inquiry is "What is its cause?" That is the distinction between animal life and human life. Human life must be inquisitive, "What is its cause? What is the essence?" Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Lord Caitanya that "Why I suffer some threefold miseries? I do not wish to suffer, but why?" This "why" question, unless this "why" question is there, then he's not to be considered as human being. Śrī Rāmānujācārya, when writing comments on Bhagavad*-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu [Bg. 7.3], he says manuṣya means "inquisitive." Not with two legs and hands. That is not a manuṣya; *that is an animal. (indistinct) vikara (indistinct). One who inquires from authoritative Vedas, śāstras, he's a human being. And those who are not inquisitive, they are not considered to be human being. "What is the essence?" that is human being. Otherwise animal life. And tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. And one who is actually inquisitive, he, he requires to have the guidance of spiritual master. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Guru is required for him who is inquisitive of the higher essence, not for... To accept a guru is not a fashion. Those, without being inquisitive of the highest essence, accept from guru, they think it is a fashion to keep a guru. Just like one keeps one dog by fashion: "My friend is keeping a dog, I shall keep a dog. My friend is keeping a car, I shall keep a car." Such kind of acceptance of guru is useless. It has no meaning. Actually, guru means... One..., the disciple must be very much inquisitive, interest into this is to understand the original essence. And he should approach a suitable bona fide person who can answer about the original essence. This is the system of guru and disciple. It is not a fashion, bogus fashion. A śiṣya must be intently inquisitive to understand the original essence, and guru must be a well*-conversant person who can answer the disciple's relevant questions. This is guru and śiṣya.



Śyāmasundara: He says that because God is pure actuality, the opposite of godly nature is pure potential without much existence.



Prabhupāda: No. The existence is there. The essential, essence also is there, but it is a question of awareness and not awareness. One who knows, he is brāhmaṇa; *one who does not know, he is kṛpaṇa. Just like human beings, one who knows what is Brahman, he is called brāhmaṇa, and one who does not know what is Brahman, he is called a kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser. He got the opportunity to understand Brahman but he did not care for it, just like a man has got money but he could not utilize it. Similarly, the opposite word of brāhmaṇa is kṛpaṇa. Those who are trying to understand the essence, they are brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa. Veda pathād bhaved vipra brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: by studying Vedas, trying to understand the essence. And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Really, to understand Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. So those who are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa, they are human being. Others, they are not human being.



Śyāmasundara: He sees the same kind of hierarchy, that on the one hand the highest types of beings are those who are most actualized, are those who are more perfect.



Prabhupāda: Mmm.



Śyāmasundara: They have realized their essence.



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Whereas the lower types of entities who are purely potential but have very small existences, like they're animal, plant life, he sees that hierarchy, and he says that the highest summit of man is..., the summit of wisdom, when he becomes capable of loving God lovingly.



Prabhupāda: That's right.



Śyāmasundara: Then he becomes purely...



*Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, premā pumartho pumān: the highest perfection of life is to attain love of Godhead. And Bhāgavata also says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is first*-class religious system, (indistinct) develops his dormant love of God. That is religion. That is first-class, transcendental religion. And Bhāgavata, in other place it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita kaitava atra: all cheating religious system is rejected here. Because Bhāgavata does not accept a religious system as genuine unless the followers develop love of Godhead. This is the test. And dharma means, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up all types of religious system." That means they are not religious, they are not religious. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa will ask that you give it up?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: He, in the beginning, says that "I come to establish religion," and He says that "Give up, kick out all these so*-called religions." So they are not religion, and that is confirmed in the Bhāgavata, kaitava, dharma kaitava. Kaitava means cheating. Anything, any religious system which does not give knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, that is cheating religion. That is cheating religion. Dharma kaitava. Kaitava means cheating. And Śrīdhara Swami, he comments that atra mokṣa vāñchā (indistinct), those who are after mukti, liberation, they are also rejected herein. The jñānīs, they are after mukti. So Śrīdhara Swami says they are also within the category of these cheating religious systems, because they are being cheated. They are cheating themselves, that "I'll become God." So that is another type of cheating. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Give up all these cheating type of religious systems. Just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Surrender unto Him. This is religion. And for teaching this religion, Kṛṣṇa appeared: dharma saṁsthāpanārthāya. What is that religion? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Anything which does not teach surrender unto the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, that is cheating religion. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this love of God is significant to one's experience of being a living self.



Prabhupāda: Yes. I am individual living self. I want to exist by loving somebody. That is, we can practically see: I want to love somebody.



Śyāmasundara: That gives significance to my existence...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...if I love somebody.



Prabhupāda: Similarly, other individual also wants to love somebody. The loving propensity is there. So our love is now distributed in so many ways, sukha mitra... (?): to our children, to our friends, to our country, to our families, to our wives, and if somebody has nothing like that, he reposes his love to dog, to cat. So the love must be there, and it must be reposed. But you should not know; *therefore we have been frustrated. But when it is done to Kṛṣṇa, (indistinct) success. So dormant love is there. (aside regarding guests*-indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: He says that this state is called realization or actualization.



Prabhupāda: This is realization. Everyone knows that "I want to love somebody." So that is going on. Anyone, even animals. Even animals, they also love their cubs, their children. Dogs, cats, even tiger, they love. They, every living entity wants to love, but because the love is reposed in a wrong place, he is being frustrated.



Śyāmasundara: He says when we come to the platform of loving God...



Prabhupāda: That is perfection.



Śyāmasundara: ...then our potential nature is no more existing; everything is purely actual.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: We have actualized our potential.



Prabhupāda: Absolute platform. Yes. That is absolute platform.



Śyāmasundara: Up to that stage, everything has got some potential...



Prabhupāda: Difference, so potential is actual.



Śyāmasundara: But they are acting on a smaller level. And when they reach that stage of loving God, then there's no more potential, purely actual.



Prabhupāda: That's right. That is higher conception. Saṁsiddhiṁ labhate parām. That is higher conception.



Śyāmasundara: He says... Now here is maybe one degree of difference. He says that ethical life, or knowledge of the Absolute, comes to our conscience or our reason, and the ethical life is to act in accordance or obedience to our conscience or our reason.



*Prabhupāda: Conscience..., not ordinary conscience*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Conscience is pure, but when it is diluted, contaminated, so somebody has got his conscience, consciousness, a different type. Just like Pakistani, Hindustani, they have got Hindustani consciousness or Pakistani consciousness, Muhammadan consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: Conscience. Not conscious but conscience.



Prabhupāda: Conscience, everyone is conscience. Every living entity has got conscience.



Revatīnandana: Conscience means if I'm..., a sense of whether what I am doing is right or wrong. That is conscience. That's different from consciousness.



Prabhupāda: What is consciousness? Conscience means living force.



Revatīnandana: So not consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Revatīnandana: Conscience.



Prabhupāda: Conscious. Discrimination of good and bad.



Devotees: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That conscience is due to practice. Just like a butcher, he has no conscience that killing is bad. That he is practiced to do that, he does not say that... His conscience is not touched by killing. So this conscience is by practice created in a different atmosphere, so it does not act. Unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his conscience has no value. It is contaminated conscience. So as you are accustomed, so you have made a particular type of conscience. A thief, a thief, when he goes to steal, his conscience says, "This is all right. This is my livelihood. Why shall I stop it?" So what is value of this conscience?



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that because he comes from a Christian background, where there is no...



Prabhupāda: Under some background he is speaking of conscience. But I say there are different consciences according to different backgrounds. So unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa background, his conscience has no value. That is our...



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that the speculative faculty is intelligence, that we can understand...



Prabhupāda: Then he is also speculating. Just like the butcher killing, he is also speculating, "What is the wrong there? Why people are protesting?" That is also speculating. But because his background is different, his conscience does not help him.



Śyāmasundara: So the method of... An authoritative basis for right and wrong, given by God Himself, then we can never know absolutely...



Prabhupāda: Unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his conscience has no value.



Śyāmasundara: But what about a person, say like this person, who had no access to God's laws, but he was simply speculating with his intelligence to try to find out what is right and what is wrong? Can he ever understand?



Prabhupāda: He'll understand when he comes in contact with a devotee; otherwise he is also in ignorance.



Devotee: By following the regulative principles, we develop a Kṛṣṇa conscious conscience.



*Prabhupāda: No. Regulative principle is good*-he may be, one may be moral, ethical-but that does not mean he is a Kṛṣṇa conscious. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, even without moral principles, he is higher than the person without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simply sticking to the moral and ethical principles, he has no... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12]. Anyone who is not a devotee of Hari, Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. He may be good morally, good about following rules and regulations, but that does not mean that he is good. We have many instances in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Those who are strictly following their religious principles but has no idea of devotional service, he does not gain anything in this life. And a person who has engaged himself in the devotional service of the Lord, even if he falls down due to immaturity, he has gained so many things.



Śyāmasundara: It would seem like this idea of pure actuality would also..., could also be called devotional service, because everything that I'm acting is for Kṛṣṇa, for the pure actual.



Prabhupāda: No, no. Everything we are acting, we imagine that will be pure. (indistinct) confirm by this.



Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda, if I'm engaged in devotional service...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master, that is devotional service. Not that you manufacture yourself.



Śyāmasundara: No.



Prabhupāda: No.



Śyāmasundara: So that stage of acting under the guidance of the spiritual master, that would be pure actuality. There would be no...



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is beyond this; *transcendental to the three guṇas. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. That is actuality. Brahma-tattva, that is actuality. So anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he is above, transcendental to the three modes of material nature. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān [Bg. 14.26]. All these material qualities, samatīta, atīta, he surpasses, and brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, he is situated in actuality.



Śyāmasundara: He says that God knows reality as it exists and it has the potentiality to become. In other words, He knows everything.



Prabhupāda: He knows. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I know everything, past, present and future." You have nothing like that, past, present and future. The past, present and future is concealed due to our, these temporary material bodies.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the human being is nature's most perfect creation.



Prabhupāda: That's it. We also accept that. So after many, many births, 8,400,000 species of life, one gets this human form of life, and that also, civilized life, that also, in India, following the Vedic principles, that is the highest birth.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the human being has the material aspect of individuality plus the spiritual aspect of personality.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that personality understanding is the perfect understanding. The Absolute Truth, as it is given in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, is realized in three phases: impersonal Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is person. So to..., when one comes to Bhagavān understanding, that is the highest perfection. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: [Bg. 7.19] after many, many births of cultivating knowledge, one actually is wise, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this is..., because of this spiritual personality that he can know and love God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Without person how there can be love? There is no question of love. You cannot love air or sky; you must find out a man or woman in the, under the sky. So therefore if you want to love God then you must accept God is a person; *otherwise there is no question of love. Therefore for the Māyāvādī philosopher there is no question of love. They merge. They want sāyujya*-mukti, to become one. They have no other conception, because they cannot conceive personal God. So there is no love. Therefore they manufacture an idea that in the material condition of life, you just imagine any form of God and love Him, and ultimately you become one. That is their philosophy. Ultimately you throw away this... The example is given that you want to rise on some top floor you take a ladder and go to the top and throw away the ladder: there is no need of this ladder, now you have come to the position. So their theory is that because you cannot love or worship something impersonal, because it is difficult, it is troublesome... It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kleśa adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām: those who are attached to impersonal deities, their progress in spiritual life is very troublesome because they never fix up. So in order to give them some facility, they say that "You imagine some form of the Absolute Truth, and when you are perfect, then throw away that form. You become one." This is their philosophy. But if God is God, then how I can throw Him? That means while they are thinking of God, that is not God. And they say it is imagination. Then what is the value of imagination if it is not reality? So how by imagination, by kalpana, by taking something false, you can reach the reality? That is the defect of their philosophy. If you take it something wrong, how you can reach the reality? Your process is wrong, because you are accepting something wrong: imagination, imagination.



Śyāmasundara: So he says because men are a combination of spiritual personality and material individuality, he says because of the spiritual personality we can know God, and because of the material individuality evil arises, because of the material body.



Prabhupāda: No. If we have no perfect knowledge of the individuality... Individuality does not mean always evil and good. Just like in Vṛndāvana, the gopīs, they have got individuality, but that individuality is for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are all one. The objective is one. The example was given by my Guru Mahārāja that according to Vedic system, when one's husband is away from home, she does not dress herself very nicely, so she does not look very attractive. But the same woman, when the husband is at home, she dresses very nice. Now, this dressing or not dressing, they are two contradictory things, but the aim is the one; therefore that is one. The aim is the husband. For the husband's satisfaction she dresses and sometimes not dresses. So these two things, dressing and not dressing, apparently may be contradictory, but (if) the aim is one, they are the same. Similarly, there is variety in the spiritual world, but all the varieties, their central point is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the varieties are also one.



Śyāmasundara: He means more in the sense that because of this material body, this material position, that is where evil arises, by identifying with this material condition only. Their real nature is spiritual. Personality is spiritual.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is contaminated. The varieties are there in the spiritual world. The same varieties when they are presented here with material contamination, it is called perverted. Just like the example in the Fifteenth Chapter of Bhagavad*-gītā, ūrdhva-mūlam adhaḥ-śākham [Bg. 15.1], reflection on the bank of a river, reservoir of water, the tree is reflected, varieties are there. The trees or trunks, branches, twigs, flowers, everything is reflected, but they are all false. Real variety is there, on the bank of the river. Because it is reflection, it appears that everything is there in the perverted way, and then they are all false.



Śyāmasundara: This potential and actual, he also says that potential is matter and actual is form, so that God, being purely actual, is also pure form.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Without God being form, how the forms are coming? Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. In the original (indistinct) [break]



Śyāmasundara: Potentiality is matter, and actuality is form. Potentiality is undifferentiated matter, whereas actuality is form. So God, being actuality, is also pure form.



*Prabhupāda: That also we say: sac*-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. Sat cit ānanda vigraha, form. Vigraha means form. So what else?



Śyāmasundara: I think that's all for today. (end)





HUSSERL.SYA



Edmund Husserl



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing one German philosopher named Edmund Husserl, and he started a school of philosophy known as phenomenology. The definition of phenomenology is "a descriptive analysis of inner experience or subjective processes, or the intuitive study of essences." So the idea behind this philosophy is that to find out the essences of things, to describe the data of our consciousness without any bias or prejudice or..., ignoring all theories and scientific facts, everything, but simply looking at a thing or a phenomenon and trying to understand what it is by analyzing our inward or intuitive knowledge of things.



*Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness*-real consciousness. Just like at the present moment I am thinking "Indian"; you are thinking "American." But if you introspect, you are American or I am Indian, so if you go on researching, you'll come to conclusion that "I am Kṛṣṇa's." That is real platform, when one understands that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa."



Śyāmasundara: Their method begins with the things themselves, they say "to the things themselves," or in other words, they begin from phenomenon.



Prabhupāda: Yes (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: To reject all theories, scientific experiments, all these things.



*Prabhupāda: When you study the phenomenon-the body*-this is phenomenon, that "I am this body or not?" Then you come to the conclusion that "I am not body. I am the soul. Then what for I am soul, I (indistinct)?" Then you will get from Krsna, "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa."



Śyāmasundara: They say that the phenomenon...



Prabhupāda: Just like one can analyze in this way: I am sitting on this comfortable, I mean, seat, cushion. Why I am sitting here? Because it is giving comfort to my body. Then I come to the study of body: Why I am maintaining this body? Because I am the soul, I am living in this body. Then ultimately I love my self, my soul. I love this seat because it gives shelter to my body. I love this body because it gives shelter to my soul. I love this soul because it is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore ultimately I love Kṛṣṇa. Is it not? That is pure consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: They say that the phenomena, or the things, are the ways or the manifestations in which objects present themselves through their appearances.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: This object...



Prabhupāda: This phenomenon... Phenomenon means it comes and it goes. (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: According to their way of thinking, the appearance of the phenomenon comes and goes, but the phenomenon itself is changeless.



Prabhupāda: That is not phenomenon. That is called noumena in philosophical language. Noumena. You can see the difference from noumena. Noumena. Phenomenon is (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Well, he gets into noumena later, but he says... Just like this is a picture. It appears as this picture like this now, but in some time it may not appear like this, but still "picture," the idea "picture" or the essence "picture" exists independently of its appearance in this form.



Prabhupāda: That picture is also phenomenon ultimately, that idea of picture.



Śyāmasundara: That phenomenon. Yes. But if... It's a permanent type of changeless idea, picture. Even it may have many appearances which come and go, but the idea of "picture" is permanent, or changeless. Is it not?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is confirming our theory of spiritual world as permanent. Just like here, the picture of a tree, that is phenomenon. But the picture, is that now original? Just like sometimes there are dolls, show dolls; that is phenomena. But the idea behind the dolls, that is permanent. Beautiful girl standing on the showcase, that is a doll. That is phenomenon. But a beautiful girl is not phenomenon; that is fact. This is a crude example. Similarly, this material world is phenomenon. That is explained by Śrīdhara Swami, that because the spiritual is true, fact, therefore the phenomenal expression of the spiritual world amidst matter appears to be true. This material world, phenomenal world, is not fact, but because it is representation of a fact, therefore it appears as fact. That is phenomenology.



*Śyāmasundara: He outlines three techniques for finding the essences of things. The first step is called the phenomenon of phenomenal logical reduction, which begins by excluding consideration of everything transcendent, including all theories or scientific knowledge*-everything-only presenting to our immediate senses the objects to be considered, without any preconceived idea of what is that object. So he calls this the suspension of judgment. Suspend all judgment about an object-just look at it, and the object itself will be intuitively understood. This is his idea.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you study the object scrutinizingly, then you will come to the conclusion, the source of that objective idea.



Śyāmasundara: He says that only this knowledge is absolutely certain.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called brahma*-jijñāsā. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring about brahma. That is the prerogative of human life. In the human life one can make inquiries what is the ultimate source, cause. And in animal life it is not sought. So if such inquisitive is not there, then it is animal. Just like at the present moment the newspaper is full of fighting news. But these things are animal news. Such kind of fighting was there also in the animal life-dogs and dogs fighting. They are not very important. Real important thing is what I am. That is real important. Just like Sanātana Goswami inquired from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "So what I am? I do not want to suffer, but I have to suffer." These (indistinct), they are busy with the suffering, how they, this party or that party, but we are busy, "Why you are suffering?" That is human life, athāto brahma jijñāsā, why you are suffering. Not that superficially you see people are suffering and giving some relief, and then again suffering, again relief. (Sanskrit) But they don't inquire, "Why suffering?" That is intelligent. That is human life. These rascals, they have established this United Nations for the last twenty-five years, and they never inquire that "We have tried so much, but still, why you could not stop war?" The establishment of U.N. was that there should be no war, because they had very bitter experience of the World..., Second World War. So they established this United Nations, but the (indistinct), just like the Americans, they thought that "We are very rich. We have got..., we are very powerful, so under the girth of this United Nations, we shall control over all the world." That was the policy. So this superficial phenomenon, as just might have seen, will not help us. We must go deep to the root, why people are suffering. That is intelligence.



Śyāmasundara: Well, their idea is to reduce everything to the level of pure consciousness.



Prabhupāda: That is pure consciousness.



*Śyāmasundara: But by examining a phenomenon purely, without any other consideration, he says that each thing has its given content or its principle of principles, as an object of intuition. Or he calls it also a thing of authentic reality. Just like a leaf. If you look at a leaf, and you have no consideration of previous knowledge where do these things come, what is a leaf, anything, then the authentic reality of that leaf will present itself to my consciousness. It will be self*-evident what is that leaf.



Prabhupāda: You don't take... That means that analytical study of the leaf.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. But without any previous knowledge*-as if I knew nothing about leaves before, but I begin to look at the leaf and it will be self-evident what that leaf is.



Prabhupāda: So you can talk any nonsense. (laughter) Then what is the use of going to school? There is no need of opening so many schools and colleges. You go on studying, you can know all knowledge and talk all kinds of nonsense. Is that perfect?



Śyāmasundara: No. He says that if a man has a clear intelligence that he will be able to understand the essence of that...



Prabhupāda: But why these schools are there? Every day we see, actually, from the most intelligent persons, scientist, he has to go to a school. Not that at home, by speculating and talking nonsense, they have become a scientist. They will never become.



*Śyāmasundara: But if evidence from that leaf*-that it is the color green, for instance...



Prabhupāda: Still, you have to learn how the color green comes in.



*Śyāmasundara: Well, he calls that kind of knowledge-how the color green comes in*-you must exclude that kind of consideration; only...



Prabhupāda: That I am saying. Then he doesn't require to ask anybody. He has to speculate himself and think any kind of way he likes. He wants (indistinct).



*Śyāmasundara: No. He wants to understand the object in its self*-evidence...



*Prabhupāda: What is that self*-evidence?



Syamasundara: ...not that it's the color green, that...



Prabhupāda: Then what is his study? Color green everyone is seeing. So what is his specific purpose of studying?



*Śyāmasundara: By studying the appearance of the leaf, the phenomenon, its nature or its essence will become self*-evident-why the leaf is structured in a certain way, what is the...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) How you can know the structure of this leaf, why it is green some portion, why it is yellow, why there are stem, how it comes...? Do you mean to say that these things should automatically come if I speculate on this?



Śyāmasundara: That is his contention.



Prabhupāda: Then it is nonsense. It will not come. We have to go to a botanist to study.



Śyāmasundara: Well, what about before they had botanists? They didn't know anything about leaves before?



Prabhupāda: No. Botanistism may not be there, but the knowledge was there.



Śyāmasundara: But they... Five hundred years ago there were no...



Prabhupāda: Five hundred years... Since the beginning of the creation. Why do you say five hundred years? You cannot... Five millions of years ago...



Śyāmasundara: That's using an example that five hundred years ago, when we had no microscopes, we had no idea...



Prabhupāda: But the knowledge was there. That is Vedic knowledge. Knowledge was there. Just like five millions of years ago there was no scientist (indistinct), analytical laboratory. But the Vedic knowledge is that cow dung is pure. Now you analyze at the present moment scientifically you'll find yes, it is pure. So wherefrom this knowledge came? There is no need of scientist if this knowledge was there. That is Vedic knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: Well, what about someone who has no recourse to Vedic knowledge or any authority...



Prabhupāda: Then he is a fool. However you may speculate, he is a fool.



Śyāmasundara: But for thousands of years man has been in contact with leaves, and they have not had Vedic scriptures to read...



Prabhupāda: Vedic scripture was there. They did not read. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: So does that mean they have no knowledge about leaves?



Prabhupāda: No. They may have partial knowledge, I mean to say, perfect knowledge. Just like the same example: cow dung is the stool of an animal, but it is stated in the Vedic language, Vedic literature, that it is pure. Now if you analyze it, as modern scientifically in the laboratory, you will find it is pure. Therefore all perfect knowledge was there in the *Vedas*. So whatever is stated there in the *Vedas*, that is perfect knowledge. There may be botanists or no botanists; the knowledge is there.



Śyāmasundara: So in order to understand anything, I have to consult Vedic scriptures.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the process: tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. So to understand anything, that is the Vedic process: either material science or spiritual science, you must approach the guru. And that is being followed everywhere. You cannot become botanist by speculating at home. You have to go...



Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't say you have to become a botanist.



Prabhupāda: So any, anything, whatever you may be, you cannot become perfect without hearing from another perfect. This is nonsense, that you go on speculating and the proof will come. This is nonsense.



*Śyāmasundara: Well, I know. That is nonsense. That isn't what he's saying. He's saying that if you look at an object, the nature of that object will be self*-evident; *that it isn't that we have to know everything about the object, but the nature of it, the essence of it will be self*-evident.



Prabhupāda: No. The nature is... Sometimes a child takes this, asks his father: "What is this, Father? What is this?" "The case of a spectacle." Therefore he gets the knowledge. That is nature.



*Śyāmasundara: But if there was no*-one...



Prabhupāda: But if the child will speculate, well then (indistinct) speculate?



Śyāmasundara: Well this isn't a philosophy for children exactly. It's supposedly for very intelligent men.



Prabhupāda: Anyone who is following the principle, he's no better than a children. He's a child. This man is no better than a child, because he is speculating something important. He wants to study this leaf without any other sense. Then he is a child.



Śyāmasundara: But the nature of that leaf...



Prabhupāda: Whatever nature is already there. Nature of the leaf is already there, but you cannot understand it by speculating.



Śyāmasundara: We can't understand that it's green and that it grows?



Prabhupāda: Well, simply understanding green is not complete study of the leaf. The main questions are why it is green? Why the other leaf is yellow? That is real enquiry. Why this flower is red and that flower is white? And why the leaf is green? This is the real enquiry, "Why?"



Śyāmasundara: That isn't possible to understand...?



Prabhupāda: How it is possible? You explain how is it possible.



Śyāmasundara: Well, you were just saying before that if someone analyzes everything scrutinizingly, they will find out that it is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. But unless they are able to make that analysis, then what is the point of analyzing? Shouldn't we have the freedom to analyze something?



Prabhupāda: Suppose that when he says to analyze, analyze. When he will not take help? (indistinct) analyze.



*Śyāmasundara: This is just the first step of his process. There are three steps. The first step is simply to reduce the phenomenon to their self*-evident (indistinct)...



*Prabhupāda: What is that self*-evidence?



*Śyāmasundara: ...that it is green, that it grows on trees*-those simple things that anyone can see, they're self-evident.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Śyāmasundara: That we don't have to consult any authority about or have any knowledge about previously. We can see those things.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Śyāmasundara: That's the first step. Then the second step is to make a universal reduction, to find out which things are common to all leaves, what things initially, this single appearance has the same thing in common with all appearances of leaves. Then... He calls these the ideas which underlie the pure phenomenon, like greenness and growth, things like that, basic principles, he calls these the changeless forms, changeless forms. Just like when this leaf is gone, it has disappeared, the color green will still exist somewhere; *it is always existing. And the idea of growth will always exist somewhere. So that's the second step. He says that these changeless ideas, like greenness and growth, must be applied to phenomenon to give them stability or a basis, and thus rescue them from a state of constant change and unreality. So he is seeking to find out something permanent inside the temporary appearances of things. So he says that the essence of something is unlike the phenomenon by virtue of its universality. In other words, the experience that this leaf is green can be shared by all persons alike. Everyone will see that the leaf is green, not that one person will see it as yellow or another person will see it as grey. But that greenness that everyone sees, that is its self*-evident nature, or essence of that leaf. So as an example, he gives the example of... We see a green object, for example, and green color is imminent in our consciousness, but when we postulate the transcendent color, it is not immediately sensed but merely described scientifically as existing in light waves measuring 550 millimicrons in length. In other words, the knowledge that that greenness is caused by certain light waves as measured by scientists is not important to him. The real idea is that that immediate greenness is shared by everyone, that is the nature of that leaf. Then the third...



Prabhupāda: Direct perception.



*Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) Then the third step is an analysis of the correlation between the phenomenon of (sic:) cognitation and the object of cognitation. In other words, he says we must make a distinction between the appearance and that which appears*-the leaf in this form and leafness as a permanent idea. So...



Prabhupāda: So why not study why sometimes it is leafless and why there is leaf? Why during winter season there is no leaf, and the springtime the leaves come out? Why? That is also phenomenon, changes. So therefore the next step will be that how the changes take place, and why the changes take place. That is real philosophy. Simply if you are satisfied that leaves are there, green leaves, that's all right; *and there is no leaves, that's all right*-that is not very intelligent. This is phenomenon. There is no leaf and there is leaf. So this is childish. Childish satisfies... Child does not enquire, "My dear father, why sometimes there is leaf and sometimes no leaf?" He is satisfied there is no leaf, that's all right; there is leaf, that's all right.



Śyāmasundara: No this..., I've just outlined the process, and as you say, if we stop at that point it may seem childish. But the idea is that it is a process and that you do inquire next...



Prabhupāda: But he says that we are not concerned with the process. We are simply concerned with the leaf as we see it.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. And then he takes the next step. Now, why is there no leaf at a certain time? And then you go on inquiring in that way. But he...



Prabhupāda: You inquire from whom?



Śyāmasundara: You inquire from your intuition.



Prabhupāda: Just see. This is nonsense.



Devotee: According to that philosophy, if one looks inside a body, a person's body, the essence of the body is the soul. So by looking at the body can we detect the soul within?



Śyāmasundara: Materially, yes. Just like before... Our Western scientists have never read Vedic literature, but they understand why there is leaves on a tree at a certain time and why not. It's not a very difficult thing to understand.



Prabhupāda: This is speculation. If we do not follow the standard knowledge, (indistinct), then you have to speculate. Same thing, same example: if we do not take this information who is your father from your mother, then you have to speculate. This is the same example. But if there is process to understand who is my father simply by asking my mother, why shall I speculate?



Devotee: We went over this intuition yesterday, that intuition is experience. Actually it is experience. So that intuition about the soul, one must have a memorable experience of the soul. But we haven't had that. We have not had experience of the soul, so how can we have intuition?



Devotee (2): Nor do we have direct perception. Nor do we have direct perception of the soul. We cannot see the soul. Not with these eyes.



Śyāmasundara: No. This... All that I've described so far is only the first part of this process to understanding... He comes to the idea eventually that everything is spiritual, or noumenal, that what we see is merely a reflection. He comes to that point. So far, all I've described is the first part, so I don't think, if we make judgments on the philosophy so far, that it makes (indistinct). But actually he was very, very thoughtful and spent many years on this philosophy. So he's not stupid. He hasn't just concocted something. But his ideas are...



Prabhupāda: These arguments, he may not be stupid, these arguments, but arguments, one can..., a very learned man can be called stupid. (laughter) Because as soon as he... If you take by argument (indistinct), that's all.



Śyāmasundara: But if you judge his argument..., his whole philosophy, on only seeing part of it, then that doesn't seem fair.



Prabhupāda: Now we are coming to (indistinct). He says that we are concerned with only the phenomenon, what we see.



Śyāmasundara: Starting with that. Starting with that. Reducing everything to the...



Prabhupāda: Starting with that, that's all right. But how he'll come to the perfect knowledge? Not by speculation. That is our point.



Śyāmasundara: But...



Prabhupāda: And intuition is also wrong way. You cannot come to the perfect knowledge by speculation or intuition. You must approach a person who knows (indistinct). The same example repeated: you cannot understand who is your father by speculation and intuition. You must approach your mother and ask her, "Who is my father?" That will be perfect knowledge. That is the process. But when..., if you insist on that "Without asking my mother I will understand my father by speculation or intuition," that is nonsense. That is stupidity. That stupid he is.



Śyāmasundara: If you are still so primitive and juvenile in your understanding that you don't even know there's such thing as a father, first you have to find out that there is such thing as father, then you can ask who is father. These Western philosophers...



Prabhupāda: But if he does not know that there is need of father for my birth, then he's a (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: No. I'm just giving you example. These Western philosophers, they have no..., they're starting from zero, from zero point. They have no knowledge whatsoever. So I begin with the idea...



*Prabhupāda: But zero, that is our point. From zero knowledge you cannot go to the perfection by zero speculation. That is our point. You, if you are zero, you must go to someone who is one. And when zero is added to one, it becomes ten. Otherwise you go on adding zero, zero, zero*-it is all zero.



*Śyāmasundara: But if you do not there is such thing as father*-let's say you are so infantile you do not know that "I have father"-first of all you must discover...



Prabhupāda: Therefore I say it is childish. Only the foolish child knows that he doesn't require any father, "My mother is everything." Just like these foolish scientists, they are thinking the nature is everything. Nature is mother. Just like a small child on the lap of the mother, he knows simply, "My mother is everything." But when he is grown up, he understands that "I have a father."



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Similarly, these so*-called scientists who does not see God behind this nature, they are just like the same child. They are simply amazed with mother's activities, mother nature. That is called śakta. The worshipers of Goddess Kālī and Goddess Durgā are like that. They simply see the supremacy, the wonderful activities of the mother. But when he is grown up, he knows that "My mother has a controller, has a husband, who is my father."



Śyāmasundara: But these philosophers, especially Husserl, because there is so much confusion and chaos in the world of philosophical thought, they wanted to start from the beginning, from zero knowledge, from wiping everything away and beginning over again. So first of all they started with the phenomenon, because that's what you can see first, just like if you were a newborn child. Then they began...



Prabhupāda: Newborn child, first business is to inquire from the mother, "Mother, what is this?" "Mother, father, what is this?" That is nature.



Śyāmasundara: That's what he's doing.



Prabhupāda: But you begin with zero, but to make this zero something, you have to ask somebody. But he does not agree to that.



Śyāmasundara: No. Who can he ask? He doesn't know who to ask.



Prabhupāda: That is different thing. But you have to ask.



Śyāmasundara: So he says by intuition...



Devotee: I think the idea is that you can tell me who is the father, but I can't understand who the father is when I try to perceive it myself. You have given me a word or a thought, "This is your father," but actually the meaning of "father" has nothing beyond that word or thought unless I understand that I have father. Maybe I might call it by a different name than father.



Devotee (2): No, no.



Devotee: By you saying "This is father" or "This is leaf," it's just a semantic label you have put on that. For me to understand leaf, I must perceive it for myself, because leaf or father may mean something completely different for me and you.



*Śyāmasundara: His idea is first of all you have to understand what is leaf or what is father. Then you can understand where the leaf came from, where the father came from. He wants to start from the point of having no knowledge about anything and building up gradually. So they begin with only the bare phenomenon, understanding what is the bare phenomenon. Because there's no authority for them to ask, these Western philosophers. They don't know where is the authority. So the only authority you can rely on is that which is self*-evident, those things, those intuitive...



*Prabhupāda: So if there is no authority, then why he is anxious to become authority? Why he's philosophizing? Let everyone learn from intuition, self*-study. Why he's writing such books?



Śyāmasundara: Because he wants to understand the nature of things.



Devotee: He wants to help other people understand the nature of things.



Prabhupāda: He does not want that his books should be read by anyone.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He wants to understand the nature of things so that he can help others...



Prabhupāda: That means that he becomes authority. He becomes authority. If he wants to become authority, why he should deny other authority?



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't deny another authority, he just doesn't know which authority is the real, correct authority.



Prabhupāda: Well, that we know. Therefore we say that Vedic knowledge is authority. That is the difference between the Western philosophers and the Indian philosophers. They accept the authority of the *Vedas*.



Devotee (2): Well, even when one chooses a spiritual master, it's not as if he accepts anybody that comes along. He must have some criteria for choosing that person, and that criterion must begin with an observation of phenomena because that's all he has to work with. It's not as if you take any bhogī who is walking down the street and say, "All right, you become my spiritual master."



*Prabhupāda: No. There is standard. There is standard. That is also authority. The Vedas says, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet, abhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma*-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12]. These are the qualities-śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. So accepting an authority as spiritual master, you have to check this, whether he is śrotriyam, whether he is brahma-niṣṭham. Śrotriyam means whether he has heard perfectly from his spiritual master, and by hearing, whether he is completely, firmly standing on brahma (indistinct). These are the two qualities. So anything, you have to learn the same thing from authority.



Śyāmasundara: Well, if Kṛṣṇa is seated in the intelligence...



Devotee: Also, isn't it possible that someone who has no exposure...



Prabhupāda: Even if you take Kṛṣṇa as authority, then you accept authority.



Śyāmasundara: I'm saying that because Kṛṣṇa is there in the..., is the prowess of all..., the intelligence of all intelligent men, is it not possible if someone has no exposure to the Vedic authorities, that he can still approach the Absolute Truth through clear intelligence?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he has to take lesson from Kṛṣṇa from within. That Brahmā took.



Śyāmasundara: That's his whole idea, to turn within to get the answer. By wiping away all of the prejudices.



*Prabhupāda: So that is a perfect method. Just like Brahmā, there was nobody externally, but Brahmā got all the knowledge from inside, internally. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi*-kavaye. Ādi-kavi, the Brahmā, he learned all the knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Where is Kṛṣṇa? He was alone. No. Hṛdi, (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa is within the heart, (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Just like one of Husserl's predecessors, Descartes, we discussed him before, he wanted the same platform, the same basis of understanding. So his only thought, his first thought, was cogito ergo sum: "I think, therefore I am." Eliminating all other thoughts, conclusions, there is at least that one thing: "I think, therefore I am." So he wants to start on the same basis, by wiping away all understanding and knowledge and beginning from the objects themselves, and reducing from those things, the essence of those things, to the truth.



*Devotee: Isn't that jñāna*-yoga?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



*Devotee: Isn't that the same thing as jñāna*-yoga?



*Prabhupāda: No. Jñāna*-yoga does not think that. Jñāna-yoga means you have to receive jñāna, knowledge, from others.



Śyāmasundara: Just like he uses another example...



Prabhupāda: They are called adaksi (?). Adaksi, simply that sense perception. That's all. So they are not perfect.



*Śyāmasundara: No. But not... Behind sense perception he also proceeds to the other levels. For instance, there's a..., he has to distinguish between the phenomenon of a sound, of a sound, and the constituting or intelligible essence of sound. From one particular sound, try to understand the nature of sound in general*-what is sound. He says the intelligence comes into play then.



Prabhupāda: Sound is a symptom of the sky. When there is sound, there is sky.



Śyāmasundara: So that would be the next logical understanding, intuitive understanding.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Behind hearing one sound, the proof of that understanding of sound in general is the sky, like that. In an elective process, this is a process for understanding these things.



Prabhupāda: On the whole, his process is mental speculation.



*Śyāmasundara: So he says that in things there is a self*-evident truth. In everything there is something self-evident that makes it true. Is that not possible?



*Prabhupāda: That self*-evidence is certain (indistinct). Just like this leaf, that you see the greenness of the leaf, but that is not all. If you actually want to study that leaf, simply the superficial vision of the leaf as green is not all.



Śyāmasundara: No.



Prabhupāda: So a person who has adaksi, sense perception, they cannot have perfect knowledge. He has seen simply phenomenon. Behind this phenomenon they cannot see. Therefore their knowledge is imperfect.



Devotee: So then if we (indistinct), Lord Brahmā took instruction from within his heart, we can understand that he had a pure heart, he was able to take instruction from Kṛṣṇa from within, that his heart was pure.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: But when that contaminated consciousness, in..., that kind of knowledge is unacceptable to him, in that contamination.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.



Śyāmasundara: It's just like if I understand the science that the greenness has a wavelength of 550 millimicrons per second...



Prabhupāda: So how does he know this measure?



Śyāmasundara: Well, if..., I'm saying "if." How does that understanding, scientific understanding, help my understanding of the greenness? It doesn't really enhance anything, just to know that it is a wavelength of light, greenness.



*Prabhupāda: So if you are satisfied that the..., with the external feature of the leaf, if you don't want to go deep into the matter, then that is also knowledge*-superficial knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: No. He wants to go deep into the matter.



Prabhupāda: How he can go deep into the matter? Because he doesn't want to consult anybody, and he cannot see beyond that superficial greenness. There are so many things which are not visible to our view. They are outside.



Śyāmasundara: Just like you have said that the sound was a symptom of the sky, that...



Prabhupāda: That..., that..., that symptom the sky we understand from the scientist, not that personally I have understood that sound is a symptom of the sky. It is the scientists, those who are dealing with physics, they say that the sky, the symptom of sky is sound.



Śyāmasundara: Well, it seems like I could...



Prabhupāda: That is (Sanskrit). That is not sense perception. That is a perception received from other authorities.



Śyāmasundara: So it seems like I could come to that same conclusion without consulting a scientist, that I could...



Prabhupāda: You cannot. That is our version. You cannot. Because simply you are puzzled with the sound, that's all. So wherefrom the sound comes, you have to approach the authorities.



Devotee: It seems like with his method he could get to the point of ahaṁ brahmāsmi. He'll recognize the spiritual substance behind everything eventually, just like the growing..., starting with the point of the leaf. He can gradually reach the point of understanding that it is spirit.



Prabhupāda: Then gradually.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: He does reach that point. In the end part of his philosophy he comes to that point of understanding everything is spirit, but we're just at the beginning of outlining the process.



Prabhupāda: But how he can understand the existence spirit simply by speculation?



*Śyāmasundara: Just like you were saying that the knowledge could come from within*-how something, what is the substance behind something, of a leaf or a flower.



Prabhupāda: That is already described: then he must be very pure.



Devotee: (indistinct) for anyone though or just for himself?



Śyāmasundara: Any human living entity, human entity, can follow the same process if he's intelligent. Anyways, to proceed: it says that after this phenomenal, logical reduction, the residue or the essence of the thing which remains is characterized in a threefold structure. In other words, after you analyze one phenomenon, you could use certain essences of that phenomenon. Those essences are composed of three things.



Prabhupāda: Three dimensions.



*Śyāmasundara: In a way three dimensions. The first one is the phenomenological ego. He says first of all that there are two egos-there is the phenomenological ego and the transcendental ego-what we would call the jīvātmā and the Supersoul. The phenomenological ego is the psychological or empirical ego, which is found in the passing stream of consciousness, or the false ego: the ego that identifies with the events and the stream of events of day-to-day life in this world-what I think I am. And the transcendental ego is the observer behind that stream of consciousness. But his idea is that, still down on this phenomenological level, the phenomenological ego deals with appearances as an activity*-that is, cogitates upon appearances which we've passed through by perception. These objects pass through my perception. My phenomenological ego cogitates on those objects and gives what I call the world a structure.



Prabhupāda: That means he knows that he has got another vision.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. But he's still dealing on the lowest level now, just to really understand things (?). He says that this ego as truer subjectivity-that is the understanding that "I am"*-is the wonder of wonders, and he considers that it is a mystery that the world should contain a being which is aware of its own existence. The phenomenological ego becomes a fundamental fact of the universe in which all truth is found. In other words, beginning with this understanding that "I am existing," that "I am this," becoming aware of myself, this is the springboard or launching pad to know the truth. And an animal, he does not have that knowledge, subjective...



Prabhupāda: So how you developed that knowledge, better knowledge than...?



Śyāmasundara: That is the mystery.



Prabhupāda: ...better knowledge than the animal?



Śyāmasundara: That is what he calls the mystery. That gradually that...



Prabhupāda: Then next mystery will be: there is somebody who is better than you.



Śyāmasundara: He comes to that conclusion.



Prabhupāda: Then it is better to consult that better than you. Why you shall go down to the animal status?



Śyāmasundara: No. He says that we are above the animal status because we can understand what we are.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Now how you become more than the animal status?



Śyāmasundara: Well, that he doesn't deal with.



Prabhupāda: So the conclusion should be: as I am better than the animal status, therefore somebody there is who is better than me. Is it not good to suggest like that?



Śyāmasundara: He says that the transcendental ego is better than the...



Prabhupāda: So why not ask the transcendental ego? Why you speculate?



Śyāmasundara: This is what he calls the intuition, transcendental ego, his understanding of things.



Prabhupāda: Anyway, there is a transcendental ego, it is better to consult it.



Śyāmasundara: That's what he's trying to do, but through inward consultation, not that he has an outside source or he does not access to that transcendental ego from...



Prabhupāda: Therefore our Vedic śāstra says the transcendental ego appears externally as spiritual master.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. You have to recognize that where can he go? He has no spiritual master available.



Prabhupāda: No. If transcendental ego appears as the spiritual master, then what is the difficulty? If he accepts the transcendental ego, and he appears externally as spiritual master, then where is the difficulty to find out a spiritual master. So transcendental ego will confirm that "Here is spiritual master." He has no difficulty. Why does he say that whom to accept?



Śyāmasundara: Well, because...



Prabhupāda: If he has got acquaintance with the transcendental ego, he'll confirm, "Here is the spiritual master."



Śyāmasundara: I imagine Germany at that time, around the turn of the century, it had just no authority that he could consult.



Prabhupāda: No. For others, here he accepts one transcendental ego. We say that transcendental ego appears externally as spiritual master. Then where is the difficulty of finding out spiritual master?



Śyāmasundara: How to find such a person?



Prabhupāda: Because transcendental ego will help. If you accept transcendental ego, he will help: "Here is your spiritual master." There is no difficulty. There is no question of how I shall find it. If you have faith in transcendental ego, he will be able to tell you that "Here is." Where is the difficulty?



Devotee: No difficulty.



Prabhupāda: Otherwise his transcendental ego conception is also faith, which is not fact.



Devotee: If you think that bringing in mental along with transcendental all the time anyway, you just (indistinct) wipe the mind clean and have an intuitive understanding of anything... How can you do that? Everybody's got subjective values. How they can look at something and just understand it intuitively? That's not transcendental; that's mental.



*Śyāmasundara: No. It's subjective. Yes. That's intuition*-it's subjective.



Devotee: So how can you understand the transcendental with that kind of an instrument?



Devotee (2): That we already described in (indistinct).



Devotee: Well I think his process rests upon that point.



Śyāmasundara: You can understand it up to a certain point. Just like he would..., just like Madhudviṣa was saying, unless you understand the idea of fatherhood, how can anybody tell you, "This is your father"? You won't understand what he's talking about.



Devotee: But the point is, how can you ever understand the father?



*Śyāmasundara: Fatherness becomes self*-evident if you analyze it.



*Devotee: How self*-evident, if the mind is a limited instrument? How is it self-evident?



*Śyāmasundara: Well, you can see that this child is coming out, that this child is being conceived by a father. You can see that. It's self*-evident. That much is self-evident. But who is the father and how the father is there and the activity involved has to be gotten from authority.



Prabhupāda: No. The father may die(?), even your father may... Suppose the child does not know what his father may be. His father, he doesn't care to know. But when he grows up, he can see one man, always constant companion of the mother, he can enquire, "Who is this man?" And the mother will say, "He is your father." So he's not that (indistinct)?



Devotee: What does father mean though?



Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. He doesn't know. But mother will explain that "He is your father."



Śyāmasundara: But if he doesn't understand...



Madhudviṣa: Someone else can be your father. If he says, "No, he's not your father, he's your father over there," he's never seen before, still, the idea of fatherhood is the man who's been with him all the time.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Madhudviṣa: So your mother..., the mother's saying "This is father" has no meaning, has no value. It contains no potential as father. The father is the person who is the close companion of the mother, and...



Prabhupāda: The thing is, when the mother says who is your father, then next question will be from the child, "What is father?"



Śyāmasundara: Yes. What is father...?



Prabhupāda: What is father, that enquiry. Then (s)he'll say that without father you cannot get birth. That is progress of knowledge. Why you should be satisfied only with the fact that the mother says, "This gentleman is your father"? So why should you..., if he does not inquire, "What is father?" Then he understands. This is inquiry, and knowledge.



*Śyāmasundara: Before we ever found out from you who is Kṛṣṇa, we had ideas of body, and nature, and God*-all these things we knew about-fire, earth, water. We had made studies, so we could understand when He said that "The earth, the sky, the fire, they are My separated energies." When you told us that, we could understand it, but unless we knew the terms, that conceptions of those things, we could never have understood.



Prabhupāda: And you understood because you came in contact of a spiritual master. Therefore it is needed. It is essential. One must have a spiritual master to know things as they are. You cannot speculate; then you will remain in darkness.



Devotee: How can one see the spiritual master in darkness? If you are standing in a dark room...



Prabhupāda: The same thing. When you go on inquiring, then the question of spiritual master comes, when inquiry is there within yourself.



Devotee: But if we are in ignorance...



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. But the inquiry is there. That inquiry will make you wise by inquiring from the spiritual master or the authority. But the inquiry is there. Human life means..., developed consciousness means..., the animal cannot inquire. The human being can inquire. That inquiry will give him everything*-the spiritual master, knowledge, wisdom-everything. But inquiry; simply this inquiry. That inquiry is there.



Śyāmasundara: This understanding of Husserl's philosophy stood as a lower stage now, because eventually we come to his description...



Prabhupāda: Just like still it is factual: The Ramakrishna Mission, when somebody goes to inquire something about God very seriously, they recommend that "For this inquiry you go to Gauḍīya Math." (laughter) Because they know what... [break]



Śyāmasundara: Husserl's next step is to...



Prabhupāda: Everyone is (indistinct) idea: "This is also good, this is also good, this is also good." We say only, only Kṛṣṇa good. We are the only community in the whole world. Because we know. That is the difference. One who does not know, he'll say, "This is also good, this is also good." That means he does not know what is good. Just like one who does not know which one is stone and which one is glass, imitation, glass. But one who knows, "Oh, this is real diamond, and this is only glass, polished glass..." So to distinguish these, what is genuine, which is false, you must have to go to the perfect person who knows it. The inquiry is there. That will lead you. When you ask somebody, "Which one is real?" and then you have to go, you go to such person, you go to the jeweler. Therefore your inquiry will take you to the right person if you are seriously inquisitive.



Devotee: Yes. You must be serious.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are seeing (indistinct). If you are serious, then that will do, send you to the right person. But that inquiry is there. That is intuition. "I want to know. I want to know."



Acyutānanda: Seems like more than serious too. Also a person must be intelligent. I may be very serious and I may say which is gold...



Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to go to an intelligent person. He is not intelligent. Anyway, seriousness does not mean... Seriousness is intelligence, but that is not perfect intelligence. Real intelligence means..., seriousness means that he takes knowledge from a man who is better intelligent than him. That is real intelligence.



Śyāmasundara: So here, Husserl reaches the point of understanding, of observing, of analyzing the transcendental observer, or transcendental ego. He comes to the understanding that there is a spiritual basis for everything. But still, we're talking about how he reaches that point. So he describes...



*Prabhupāda: Transcendental observer, that is sometimes known as conscience*-something dictating. I reject or may accept. Something dictating from within. That is transcendental.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are the phenomenological and the transcendental. The phenomenological ego, which uses conscience with...



Prabhupāda: Phenomenological ego means "I." "I am this individual soul." And transcendental ego is Paramātmā, Bhagavān.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That's his distinction. The "I" feeling is, that would be the conscience which is made up of the data, day to day, that I observe, which is my world, the stream of consciousness, that "I think I am." So I may be allowed to...



*Prabhupāda: No. At every moment I speculate my mind*-accept something, reject something-then I am, "What is to be done?" Then something dictation is there. That is transcendental ego.



Devotee: How did we get into the conception of transcendental ego?



Śyāmasundara: Well, that we haven't come to yet. That's later. We're still... I mean, if you want to jump to that we can, but we're missing a lot that goes between.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. That will come gradually. But we accept that transcendental ego.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. But now he's discussing the phenomenological ego, or what we would call the false ego, the sense of "I." He says that this ego is an act, an activity*-of doubting, understanding, affirming, denying, ruling, refusing, imagining, feeling...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called in Sanskrit language saṅkalpa and vikalpa: You accept something and reject something. That's all. You can make a different branches of these two words.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these are all intentional acts, that this ego, false ego, is responsible for all my intentional activities.



Devotee: Hm?



*Śyāmasundara: Intentional activities*-that means doubting something, understanding something, affirming something, denying something, feeling something-these are all activities that have an intent.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Without intent, how we can act?



Śyāmasundara: So this is the second part of the structure of the phenomenological understanding of things, the...



Prabhupāda: But that intention are two kinds. Just like a man works for himself and then he works for others. When I am alone, I work for myself, but when I am married, I work for my wife, my children. So the intentions are two kinds. So which one is better intention? That is also to be studied.



Śyāmasundara: In this way, just like you have just given the example, that is how he wants to study phenomenon, like that.



Prabhupāda: Both are phenomenal. When I work for myself, that is also phenomenal, and work for my wife or children, that is also phenomenal. Now, whose intention is better? There are two kinds of intentions. People are working: somebody working for his personal satisfaction; somebody is working to maintain the family, wife, children. So which one is better? (end)





FREUD.SYA



Sigmund Freud



Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing the philosopher and psychologist Sigmund Freud. His thesis was that certain unconscious states must be repressed by a special mental mechanism which serves as a defense for the ego against painful or fragmental memories, emotions and desires.



*Prabhupāda: That is our brahmācārya system. The psychology is that everyone has a sex appetite, everyone has a tendency for intoxication, and everyone had a tendency for meat*-eating. Vyavāya āmiṣa madya sevā. These tendencies are already there. There is injunction in the śāstras that one can have sexual intercourse by marriage, legal sex. We are prohibiting illicit sex, but we are not prohibiting legal sex. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, dharmāviruddho' bhūteṣu kāmo 'smi bharatarṣabha, sex indulgence which is not against religious principles. That is (indistinct). So religious principle means regulated sex life. People have a tendency... Just like those who are not regulated by the Vedic injunctions are also having sex. So what is the meaning of this legal sex? Legal sex means it is restricted, that is all. Where there is no set injunction. Just like in Western countries, they are having sex without any restrictions. But according to the Vedic system, there are restrictions. Just like eating meat, that is also restricted. You cannot eat meat from the slaughterhouse, but the injunction is that you can take a goat and in the presence of goddess Kali you can offer it, and then you can eat it. In the śāstras this is called (indistinct). Amisa means meat which is not sacrificed. There are so many rules and regulations. Similarly, there is also injunction for drinking. By worshiping (sandamani) you can drink. So when the śāstras deal with meat-eating, drinking and sex, which is already there... Psychologically everyone has this tendency. Then why is it mentioned in the śāstras in this way? The whole thing is to restrict. Just like ordinarily in the state drinking liquor is also controlled by the excise department of the government. The government opens drinking shops, but the price is enhanced. I know because I was dealing in rectified spirits, so because we are preparing medicine we are getting opium, rectified spirits, gañja, very cheaply. One smuggler came to me and said that "You give me your license, you take one thousand rupees. I will manage." So I told him that when I would be arrested, because after I would be arrested, then the government would ask me that "We have given you the license as a respectable gentleman, and you are doing this," then what shall I reply? So this restriction is that liquor... Wine is made from rectified spirits, brandy, whiskey, everything; *I know all the formulas, how to make them. The cost price of the rectified spirits is about Rs. 1/59 per gallon, and the government is selling at 60 rupees. For us it was five rupees, because we were manufacturers. So why (indistinct)? Restriction. Because unless the government takes this matter in their hands, people will distill... It is not very difficult. There are many illicit distillers also. That's why it is the duty of the excise department to arrest them. My point is that why is the government increasing the price? So that restricting, that people may not pay so much price, they may not drink (indistinct). When the government opens a liquor shop, it does not mean that all of you become drunkards. It is not an advertisement. Similarly, when śāstras give the permission that "You can have sex life by marriage," or "You can eat meat by offering the goat to goddess Kālī," or "You can drink by offering worship to Caṇḍī," it is restricted. Nobody can worship Caṇḍī daily. Nobody can worship Kālī daily. There is also fixed date... Kālī worship can be performed on (indistinct). The (indistinct) comes once a month. So that means restricted. One can eat meat once in a month. But the restriction is not there for eating rice, dahl, ghee, fruit or milk. There is no such restriction. But whenever there is a question of liquor, meat*-eating and sex, immediately there is śāstra injunction that "You can do this under certain conditions." That means the whole idea is to restrict. That is, psychology is already there, but śāstras (indistinct), because they know if people become implicated with all these nonsense things, then his duration of materialistic way of life will increase, and we will have to accept material bodies birth after birth. So by restriction, gradually just like we are restricting all these things, gradually, the Western students, they are coming to the point of becoming a pure devotee. But these things are already there. Everyone know it. Mr. Freud does not require to study. It is already there. We know in the Vedic śāstras. But they should be restricted.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that certain memories or painful experiences or frustrations or desires are sometimes repressed by forgetfulness. We forget them. They lie deep in our unconscious, but we cannot even remember them because they cause pain by their memory. This mechanism is called defense mechanism, forgetfulness.



*Prabhupāda: No. That is not possible. There is the system that is yogic process, mechanical system to control the senses. Yoga (indistinct). Yoga means to control the senses. Yoga indriya saṁyama. So by this mechanical process of yogic exercises, one can (indistinct). One may artificially check, suppress, these tendencies, but we have many instances that even the greatest yogis like (indistinct) also failed. Our process is as it is recommended in the Bhagavad*-gītā, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. You give him a better thing, he will forget it.



Śyāmasundara: Sometimes people forget experiences which cause them pain. For instance, a child may have had a very frightening experience which he does not like to recall, so that he forgets it. But the cause of his forgetting is that it causes an unhealthy state.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore we do not recommend such artificial means.



Śyāmasundara: But it's not artificial; naturally the...



*Prabhupāda: Not natural. The child forgets... Our formula is bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. This fearfulness is created when one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is a quality of the conditioned soul. Īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ. So as soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, these things become almost nil. Nārāyaṇa*-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. One who is God conscious doesn't fear anything. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Such a giant, his giant father, is threatening him. He is calm and (indistinct). He doesn't care for his father's (indistinct). His father is asking, "Prahlāda, how is it that you are so proud and fearless when I am trying to chastise you?" But he replied, "The person who has given me this power is protecting me." That was his answer. "You have power because it is gifted by Kṛṣṇa. So that same personality is giving me protection." He replied that.



Śyāmasundara: You say it's artificial to forget anything?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Forgetfulness is artificial?



Prabhupāda: Artificial.



Śyāmasundara: So why don't we remember everything?



Prabhupāda: Because you are not trained. Forgetful I do not understand. What do you mean?



Śyāmasundara: Forgetfulness means loss of memory. I can't remember what happened when I was four or five years old.



Prabhupāda: You might explain in your past life you had so many fearful incidents even, but you are not afraid of now. Why should you try to forget? There is no use of forgetting. Even if I remember I am not afraid, rather I thank Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa, you are so kind that You have saved me from so many misgivings. Now (indistinct) I am pure (indistinct)." So one should not be frightened by these past incidents. He rather (indistinct) afraid of all these things... (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: What he is talking about is the natural instinct of people to forget painful experiences.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) forget. Just like you were in the womb of your mother. It was a very painful situation. But you have forgotten. That is natural.



Śyāmasundara: So it's not artificial?



Prabhupāda: No. But when you were in the womb of your mother, that's a fact. Now when you think of it you can understand how horrible condition was that. Therefore śāstra says that even if you have forgotten, it does not mean that you have escaped the incidents. It is that you are waiting for another painful situation like that.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that many of our present unconscious wishes and conflicts have their origin in infantile or childhood experiences.



*Prabhupāda: You are going to be again (indistinct). Why you forget Kṛṣṇa? After this life, you will be put in another womb of mother, so that the same thing will again happen. You are not finishing your business, so therefore it is the duty of guru and father and mother to save him from that situation again. Pitā na sa syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta*-mṛtyum. So that is the opportunity of this human life. They should know that I had such-and-such bad experience. (indistinct), I will also experience the same thing again at the time of death, horrible situation. Again after, again enter, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. You have to again take birth in the womb. The same situation is repeating. You may forget. That is another thing. Just like you had some surgical operation in your body. That was very painful. So even if you have forgotten, that does not guarantee that there will be no more (indistinct) and no more surgical operation. That is not (indistinct). It will be put again. What is the use of forgetting? Even if you do forget, what is the benefit of thereof?



Śyāmasundara: He says there is no benefit of forgetting, but it is a natural tendency.



Prabhupāda: That is natural, and everyone knows that's not a very (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: So he says that the cure for many of our present conflicts is to try to recall these painful experiences and analyze them and try to correct them.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Just like for instance a person may have a hatred toward a member of the opposite sex. Why is this hatred? By tracing back in his childhood we may find that there was some horrible experience with his father or with his mother which caused him to hate that particular sex.



Prabhupāda: Just like if some woman does not like to give birth to a child...



Śyāmasundara: Because she was repressed when she was a child, or beaten by her father...



Prabhupāda: Not only that. A person does not like to bear children; *therefore this contraceptive method is there. It is botheration, painful. It is called pain. (indistinct) (indistinct) means pain. So nature is prohibiting that, (indistinct), child delivery, so the man is also given so much trouble. The woman is also given so much trouble. So why is the trouble there? The (indistinct) for everything is don't be implicated in this sex life. If you simply tolerating a little itching sensation, then you will not have so much pain. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. These ordinary men who are attached to the materialistic way of life, their only happiness is this sexual intercourse. So śāstra says this happiness derived from sexual intercourse is very, very insignificant. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. This is not happiness. It is very (indistinct) third class or even lower than happiness. But because we have no idea of other happiness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the materialistic way of life, that is the happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. That is a very insignificant happiness. Then how is this happiness experienced? Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. You have got itching, and if you scratch like this, so you get some happiness, but aftereffects of that happiness is very abominable. So even if you have legal sex, the mother has to undergo the labor pains and the father has to take responsibility for raising the children nicely, give them education. Of course, one who is irresponsible like cats and dogs, that is another thing. But those who are actually gentlemen, for them it is not painful. Therefore they are avoiding children by contraceptive methods, because they know to raise children is a very difficult job. So śāstra's injunction is simply to try to tolerate this itching sensation and you save so much pain. This is real psychology. That itching sensation can be tolerated if one practices this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will not be very much attracted by this sex life.



Śyāmasundara: I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I haven't made clear, perhaps, what is his philosophy.



Prabhupāda: What is his philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: His philosophy is that people have neuroses or disorders of their total personality, that there is conflict, there is anxiety, there is frustration, and that all of these have origin.



Prabhupāda: But I am telling you that all these are due to sex.



Śyāmasundara: That's what Freud is also saying.



Prabhupāda: That we also say. Freud is encouraging, and our process is to stop. That is the difference. Freud says that when there is sex impulse, enjoy. (indistinct) care what it is.



Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't say one way or the other. He is merely trying to analyze the sex impulse. He says that due to repressed childhood sex desires that these neuroses arise in a person's personality, and that by analyzing...



Prabhupāda: Our process is not repression. We don't repress. Therefore we give facility, that "You have got sex impulse. All right, you have it, but with your wife, legalized wife."



Śyāmasundara: He thinks more in terms from the very beginning of birth there is sex impulse.



Prabhupāda: That is admitted. We say that as soon as there is an embodied living being, he must have hunger, he must have sex impulse. (indistinct), we find in the animals these impulses are there, so why so much philosophy? They are already there. What is the use of philosophizing?



Śyāmasundara: He analyzes that besides the id, or these sex impulses, there is the ego, which is the moral self, which tries to adjust these impulses, these sexual impulses, and tries to...



Prabhupāda: That we have already discussed, that because just like that the sex impulse you are giving him some facility that "You have sex life with your married wife." This is real (indistinct). Not (indistinct) because I have sex impulse, I can (indistinct) anyone, never mind mother or sister, and have sexual intercourse. That is not very nice.



Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't enjoin that. He is a scientist. He doesn't make any recommendations one way or the other. He is merely trying to analyze what is cause...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) our solution is this: Your materialistic life is painful. That's a fact. This materialistic life is painful. (indistinct). As soon as you have this material body, then you must suffer these three kinds of miserable condition of life. So our whole program is to stop. Everyone is looking after happiness. We say that unless you stop your materialistic way of life, repeated birth and death, there is no question of happiness. So the whole Vedic civilization is based on this, how one can get out of this disease. This is a disease, the repetition of birth and death. We are trying to cure this disease. Then all other symptoms will automatically vanquish. If you are a diseased fellow, you are getting sometimes a headache, sometimes leg ache, sometimes some pain in the stomach. But if your disease is cured, then that there are no more symptoms. That is our position.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these neuroses or disorders of the personality are due to repressed sex impulses in childhood, and that these cause traumatic and shock experiences. For instance, he says that at a certain age, around four or five, the son becomes jealous of the father, and he...



Prabhupāda: These are all right, but what is the remedy that he is suggesting? That the child should be allowed to have sex life?



Śyāmasundara: No. The tension that is created by repressing the sex desire...



Prabhupāda: There are so many (indistinct), we established some of them. There are so many problems. But our program is that threefold miseries, everyone who has accepted this body has to undergo the threefold miseries. You may describe in...



Śyāmasundara: [break] ...psychoanalysis that by releasing these emotions, which have been built up due to tension, frustration, then the original shock can be released through admitting, confessing, remembering, like that.



Prabhupāda: What is the guarantee that he will not get another shock? He is getting shock after shock. You (indistinct) one and another is present.



Śyāmasundara: He attributes all of our personality conflicts to this...



Prabhupāda: But the thing is that he is trying to cure one kind of shock, but there is no guarantee that he will not have shock. So our program is total cure: no more shock. That is our program. No more shock of any kind. His treatment is useless because he cannot guarantee another shock. Ours is (indistinct). If you are situated in real Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the (indistinct) type of misery which is (indistinct) will not (indistinct). No shock at all. We are giving that in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he is trying to cure the resultant action of one kind of shock, but there is no guarantee that another shock will not come. You will get them, one after another, one after another. That is called (indistinct). You are trying to solve one problem; another problem is there, immediately. You solve that problem, another problem is there. So how can you change them? So long as you are under condition by the material nature, shock after shock will come. (indistinct). If one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, no more shock. That we are...



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the one basic instinct which is the most important to the human personality is the drive to procreate, or sexual energy.



Prabhupāda: That we have already discussed, that everyone has got. The animal has got this sexual proclivity.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that the present state of the personality has grown about because of childhood or incomplete uses of this libido or sexual energy, and if it has been misused then there is a disorder in the personality. But by healing that original shock in childhood, then the future will all be healed. There will be not more fluctuation in the personality. Because by healing this original shock, there won't be any more fluctuations or neuroses.



Prabhupāda: That we have prescribed. We are trying to make boys brahmacārīs. So of course there is tendency, but by practicing the brahmācārya system, by diverting one's attention to Kṛṣṇa consciousness for Kṛṣṇa's service, there will be very little chance for this shock.



Śyāmasundara: He says that our sexual instincts are often thwarted by social constraints, so in a society which does not have a brahmācārya system, this would be...



*Prabhupāda: Therefore this Vedic system is so scientific, varṇāśrama*-dharma. When these things are automatically adjusted and checked, our life becomes very peaceful and we make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then these things will not come.



*Śyāmasundara: This sexual energy, or the libido energy, he sees as not only sexual intercourse but is associated with a wide variety of pleasurable sensations relating to bodily activities, such as pleasure of the mouth, of the different organs. He says it's all sexual energy*-eating, sucking.



*Prabhupāda: That is already stated, that the only happiness in this material world, maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukham. Ādi means the basic principle is maithuna, sexual intercourse. And now there are some maithuna-ādi. Or you can take it that one is very happy-just like one gentleman proposed to (indistinct), "Give me a son." But that is also maithuna-ādi, by sexual intercourse. He is thinking that "I will have a son and I will get him married; *he will also begin maithuna-ādi*-and a grandson." So the whole system, this materialistic way of life, just like Bhāgavata is saying, yan maithuna gṛhamedhi sukham. This is happiness. (indistinct). Suta means son and āpta means friend. (indistinct) wife, mother, sister, they are enjoying this life. (indistinct), that's in the desert, one drop of water. The desert requires an ocean of water, but in the whole desert if there is one drop of water, you can say, "Here is water." But what is the value of water? What is the value of this water? You can say, "Here is water." Similarly, this sexual pleasure society, there is some pleasure, but what is the value of that pleasure? That is compared with one drop in the desert. You are seeking after unlimited pleasure. (indistinct) You are seeking that pleasure. What this will pacify you? Therefore nobody is satisfied. He is having sex in different ways, placing the woman in different ways. Now these young girls are almost naked. They are attractive. But this is not (indistinct) how society is degrading. Now the woman population is greater everywhere. So how to solve? As soon as there is woman population, they say, "Where is a man?" The (indistinct) desire (is) that every woman, every girl is trying to attract a man. But where is the man? And the man will take advantage, that "Milk is available on the market. What is the use of keeping a cow?" So they will decline to keep a cow, because milk is so cheap. So this is social desertion. And the more the man will become attached to woman, the woman population will increase. It is psychological. The whole world is increasing woman population. So therefore there is desire, especially in (indistinct).



Devotee: How is that?



*Prabhupāda: The same principle*-if milk is available in the market, what is the use of keeping a cow?



Devotee: How does that result in more women?



Prabhupāda: When you have more sex, then you have no power to beget a male child. When the man is less powerful, a girl is born. When the man is powerful, a boy is born. That is Vedic system. In our country, in (indistinct), there are fewer woman because there the men are very stout and strong. When there is discharge, if the man's discharge is larger, then there is a male child; *if the woman's discharge is larger, then there is a female child. So when women will be very easily available, the men will be weak. So what will he beget? He will beget female child, because he has lost his power. Sometimes he becomes impotent. So many desertions. If you don't restrict sex life, there will be so many desertions. And that is happening*-impotency, no marriage, woman population more. But they did not know how things are happening, how human psychology can be controlled. The perfect system is the Vedic system.



Śyāmasundara: He says that all pleasures, all bodily pleasures have a sexual origin.



Prabhupāda: That we have already discussed, maithunādi. Ādi means in the beginning, sex impulse. That is already there.



Śyāmasundara: Even he says satisfaction of the eating and sucking tendency.



*Prabhupāda: That is maithunādi. The central point is sex. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45].



Śyāmasundara: He says that after a period of childhood indulgence in these sexual appetites, he begins to learn that by giving up satisfaction he can please and influence others so as to gain more adult favors, just like (indistinct) and (indistinct) you were talking about. So the pleasure principle becomes replaced by the reality principle.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Bhagavad*-gītā, (indistinct). If your consciousness is changed, if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there is a verse by Yamunācārya, he says,



*yad*-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde

*nava*-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt

*tad*-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne

*bhavati mukha*-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca



*(indistinct), he was emperor. So he said, "Since I am taking pleasure in the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa, nava*-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt, since I have engaged my life to enjoy the transcendental bliss by serving the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. (indistinct), "I am getting newer and newer pleasures. And because," he said, "and at that time when I think of sex pleasure," bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca. He was king. He had under his command (indistinct), but he said, "when I think of that sex pleasure, my mouth becomes deformed and I spit." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (indistinct)



Devotee: Freud would analyze that as...



Prabhupāda: Why nonsense Freud would analyze it? He is not Kṛṣṇa. What does he know? What rascal (indistinct). He is a big man among the rascals. A big rascal, that is all. He is a rascal, but a big rascal, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: What is the purpose of discussing him?



*Prabhupāda: Just to prove that he is a big rascal. He may be a very big man amongst the other rascals, small rascals. Jīva Gosvāmī*-this is Jīva Gosvāmī's language. I think I have mentioned somewhere in my Bhāgavata, (indistinct), big rascal, that is all. The analysis of (indistinct), how can we approach that with little knowledge? What improvement has (indistinct); after his philosophy in the Western countries? He has degraded more.



Devotee: He has put their attention more on sex.



Prabhupāda: That's all. What actual benefit is derived from him?



Śyāmasundara: He has made the impression that all of our troubles are due to frustrated sex life in our childhood, and that by analyzing these activities of childhood we can rectify our situation.



Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct).



Devotee: That is why young boys and girls have increased sex life.



Prabhupāda: They are becoming hippies. What benefit is there? He has degraded the whole nation.



Śyāmasundara: I think we have many clothes out on the line.



Devotee: I don't think that in this discussion that we can convince in any way the (indistinct). I think the invalid aspects of Freud (indistinct) called irrational.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: We have scientific reasons



Devotee: But there are aspects of Freud's philosophy and psychology which they feel have proven beneficial for mankind. So many cases of, say, someone is paralyzed and they can't find any direct physical reason why a person can't walk, and through analysis they are able to trace down that it is due to some repressed trauma, what they call trauma.



Prabhupāda: What is?



Śyāmasundara: Shock.



Devotee: And therefore the person reacts on a physical level and they can't (indistinct) psychoanalyzing him and having him recall that event, then he is free...



*Prabhupāda: Therefore our prescription is that in the beginning of life, teach him brahmācārya restraint, and when he is grown up, he is above twenty, get him married. In the beginning he will learn how to restrain. If you teach your child to become saintly, he retains his semina, his brain becomes strong, he can understand things, because wasting your semina means less intelligence. So from the beginning, if he is brahmacārī, if he stops misuse of semina, then he becomes intelligent and strong and fully grown. For want of education, everything is being stunted*-brain, bodily growth, and everything. So after he is trained as a brahmacārī, if he thinks that still he will have sex enjoyment, all right, he can be married. But because he will have strength of body and brain, he will beget a child, immediately there will be male child. This is practical remedy. And because he has been trained from boyhood to renounce this material way of enjoyment, when he is fifty years old, naturally his first-born child must be twenty-five years old, so he can retire from sex life. (indistinct), because household life means a license for sex life. That is all. It is not required. But one who cannot restrain, he is given a license, "All right, you have sex life by marriage," as I explained in the beginning. So that is real program. That will save the society. Not by (indistinct) or some (indistinct) and this and that. They cannot find out the root disease. But if you give him all indulgence, then he will study the (indistinct). You should take information from the standard knowledge. That's what we have discussed (indistinct) sex impulse is already there. So from the very beginning you have to restrain. Otherwise you will be implicated.



Devotee: Is doing it from the beginning necessarily always going to work? For instance in Nairobi, (indistinct) he came with his wife and two children, and his son was so frightened, he never liked to leave the house at night because he thought when he left the house at night, when he returned the house wouldn't be there, and you were saying that that was recalled from his previous life, that he was bringing that... [break] ...simple desires?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is continued from the previous birth. As soon as the seed is there, we are getting so many impressions, there are seeds, so many impressions. So therefore Lord Caitanya said that we are getting so many seeds, every moment, so one who is fortunate, he gets the seed of bhakti by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. The bīja is there, that seed, and if he nourishes that seed by watering, (indistinct), then it grows, he becomes a devotee. Everything is seed. Either bhakti or sinful life or anything*-it grows (indistinct). So brahmacārī means from the very beginning sowing the seed of goodness, and if one becomes a devotee, then automatically other things are lost.



Śyāmasundara: So the Western system of bring up children is artificial, because they allow the child unrestrained freedom either to repress or to enjoy his sex desire.



Prabhupāda: No. That is not predictable.



Śyāmasundara: The Vedic program is a social program.



Prabhupāda: Social, yes. Just like Cāṇakya says. He is an experienced moralist, his ethical laws. He says, (indistinct), if you indulge in freedom, (indistinct) and if you restrict and restrain, that is very, very (indistinct). Therefore one should take care of his disciple and serve by chastising them, not giving them independence.



Śyāmasundara: Freud would say that this system of repression, by saying "Don't do this," is harmful to the child.



*Prabhupāda: (indistinct) repression of course*-his idea of repression is different. Our idea is different. Our repression is you must rise early in the morning, you must attend maṅgala ārati.



Śyāmasundara: It's with knowledge.



Prabhupāda: Knowledge will come later on. But in the beginning, "must"; otherwise he will not (indistinct). Even if there is no knowledge, if by the order of the spiritual master or superior, you must do it.



Śyāmasundara: Freud's idea, being as he came from the Victorian age, when there was straight restraint of sex desire by the social structure, was that if you tell a child, "Don't look at a woman. Don't look at a woman," that this will...



Prabhupāda: We don't say like that-"Don't look at a woman." Here is a woman sitting, I am looking. Does this mean immediately you become polluted?



Śyāmasundara: What they say is that there is a conflict between a man's natural desire to enjoy women...



Prabhupāda: Therefore I use that strong word mūḍha, that they are actually fools. They do not know how to do things. Therefore I say they are actually big fools.



*Devotee: The Freudian method would be to think back to those seeds and rectify them*-think back and back and back and try to remember those seeds.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) he is already grown up. Where is the seed? That is nonsense. Seed means those already grown up, fructified. Where do you find the seed? That is nonsense. Just like as example you have got arrow and bow. So long as it is in your hand, it is all right, but when it is thrown, you cannot control it. It is out of your hand. Another example is this (indistinct). You have seen bamboo. When it is green, you can bend it, but when it is yellow, it will break.



Śyāmasundara: It is proven in practical experience of psychoanalysis that by remembering some traumatic or shocking experience in the person's life it relieves the emotional tension which has caused the disorder in his personality, and he becomes healthy again.



Prabhupāda: That may be, but if you sow a seed, the seed, when fructified, grown into a tree, then it is no more...



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't call it a seed; he calls it a shocking experience which we repress because it causes pain, and this repression makes a tension. For instance, a person grows up with a great hatred of woman: "Oh, I hate all woman."



Prabhupāda: That is particular (indistinct) for a particular person.



Devotee: Otherwise, let's say when the child was very young, the mother became angry and locked him in a room for too long, and he was crying, locked up. So then that person for the rest of his life, as soon as the windows are closed, he will be afraid, because he remembers, even if he has forgotten the original experience. He is always afraid of. That's claustrophobia.



Śyāmasundara: Freud says by remembering this experience you can explain...



Prabhupāda: Suppose the child is locked up, and his brain becomes deranged. Then how can (indistinct)?



Devotee: So let's say he's grown, he still has that fear, and Freud or one of his doctors will start to think back, "What do you remember from your childhood?" And then the doctor will see, "Oh, that is (indistinct)."



Prabhupāda: That's all right. He can find out what is the cause, but what is the cure?



Śyāmasundara: By remembering and explaining to him, "You were only a child. It wasn't really a bad situation," like this, and then the patient loses the tension which has caused the disorder, and he becomes healthy again.



Prabhupāda: That is psychoanalysis?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Psychoanalysis, psychotherapy.



Devotee: Actually the idea is that a child is sometimes unable to adjust to certain very extremes. It is called trauma, very shocking, and the child can't understand; he is simply very much stunned. So through his life he is affected by that. He can't remember exactly what it is, because he wants to forget it, it is so painful, but it manifests in some aberrant symptom later on, as he is afraid when the windows are closed. But by finding out what is the root of his fear,... (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...I become afraid. Just like in that hospital, it was so nice, everything was so nice, but because I was thinking, "Oh, I cannot go out, I cannot walk," it was giving me too much trouble*-that very thought that I cannot go out.



Devotee: (indistinct) sometimes they can't trace out the history of a particular case. The idea is that if they can find out from this person remembering back when they were young that he had been locked in a room, then (indistinct) the person was able to understand the significance of that incident, that it was really very small. Then it loses its importance in his life. He has been unable to resolve it because he has repressed it.



Prabhupāda: But I don't think when a man's brain is already deranged he can be rectified by finding out the cause.



Devotee: It's not that the trauma makes him crazy so that he cannot function in society. He could be a business executive who has claustrophobia; he can't stand getting in an elevator. He is leading a normal life in society but he has a problem which causes him a great deal...



Prabhupāda: So why not divert his attention to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?



Śyāmasundara: Ah, by a higher type of knowledge, if one realizes that he is not this body, then all those things will be...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...



Devotee: That is why we are doing social service.



*Prabhupāda: To divert his attention. (indistinct) That is understanding, and nicer thing (indistinct), that is our formula, (indistinct). Actually, as one increases his Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes (indistinct) all this material (indistinct). That is the prime remedy*-panacea for all diseases.



Devotee: This Freudian philosophy is an offshoot from Darwin philosophy. Freud also thinks that man is a biological organism only; therefore his biological functioning should measure up to certain norms of biological behavior. If it doesn't, then there is something wrong. If it does, then everything is all right. So he makes some animal behavior good and other animal behavior substandard, and you want to bring everybody to a certain standard of animal behavior. But he has no conception of spiritual life.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: We know he's a great fool, but we have to convince the students.



Prabhupāda: We have to convince them as I am convincing you. That is your business.



*Śyāmasundara: Later on, Freud began to accept that certain nonsexual factors might produce these unconscious conflicts, also, and he divided the personality into three separate systems, called the ego, the super*-ego and the id. The id is the unconscious instinctive drive to enjoy-sex desire, everything animalistic. The ego is that part of the mind concerned with adjusting efficiently to external reality. In other words, it's a moral segment of the personality which tries to adjust or protect.



*Prabhupāda: We are trying to create (indistinct) these falsity. Everyone has got some false egoism. That is our (indistinct). Just like Freud is thinking that he is American or (indistinct). This is false ego. We are giving everyone the intelligence that this identification with this material body, that is (indistinct). Due to ignorance I am thinking that "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am (indistinct)." This is false ego*-ahaṅkāra, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is inferior quality of egoism. The superior quality of egoism is Brahman: "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." So if he is taught to the superior engagement, then automatically this false egoism becomes stopped.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that ego is concerned with self-preservation*-by organizing and controlling against neurotic conflicts and the demands of the id. In other words, if the id sees something, like foodstuffs, it automatically has the urge to eat it, kill it, eat it. The ego is concerned with controlling that desire in order to preserve the individual. For instance, this becomes restrained. Voluntary restraint, control, by personalities and the superego are the authoritarian values of the society, or the parents which say "No, you do not kill like that. You do not eat this, like that." So these three systems are functioning in the personality, and they are always in conflict with a person as he progresses.



*Prabhupāda: But the basic principle is called, as Vivekananda says, that he is following the principles of (indistinct), he has no conception of the soul that is existing beyond the body. So they are taking consideration of the body. So according to our philosophy, Bhāgavata, anyone who is in the concept of this body is no better than an ass. Sa eva go*-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. One who is identifying this body of three elements as the self, he is no better than an ass.



*Śyāmasundara: These three types of reaction to anything*-the id reaction, the ego reaction and the superego reaction-these are all bodily reactions.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. They are all bodily*-subtle reactions.



Śyāmasundara: Each one is more subtle than the other.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: The id is the most gross,



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Mind is the beginning of subtle. Just like my senses are gross, but my senses are being controlled by the mind. The mind is the subtle element, but mind is controlled by intelligence, and intelligence is controlled by ego. So if the ego is false, then the whole thing is false. If I am thinking I am this body, this false identification, ego, then all other things which are coming out of this false ego, they are also false. Therefore it is called māyā, or illusion, because they are standing on false platform. Therefore the whole Vedic education is that you be relieved from this false platform and come to the real platform. That is called brahma*-jñāna, real platform. And in Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, (indistinct). When one comes to that knowledge that I am spirit soul, than immediately he becomes happy. All this trouble is due to this false ego. Immediately he comes back. (indistinct) What does this mean? The blazing fire of material existence is immediately extinguished. These philosophers are simply describing the blazing fire of material existence. We are trying to get him out of the prison. That's all. Immediately he feels relief: "Oh, I am out of the fire." And within the fire, however you try to make him happy, how will he be happy? The fire is already there. Save him from the fire. Then he is happy. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, (indistinct). And in Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, (indistinct).



Devotee: Twelfth Chapter.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa says, (indistinct), we are getting out. So our (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: We have more to discuss.



*Prabhupāda: He is identifying the body with the soul. And our preaching is different*-that we are not this body. Our first principle of understanding is to know that we are not this body. I am different from this body and I am transmigrating from one body to another. That they cannot express. They are explaining that the body is evolving from this body to that body. That is the basic misunderstanding.



Devotee: Freud's case is interesting, that he formed all of his conclusions by his observations of what he calls neurotic and psychotic patients. He observed mentally ill people, neurosis and psychosis, and he drew his conclusions about both sick and normal psychology from his observation of abnormal. He observed the normal behavior of neurotic people, psychotic people, crazy people, and from their behavior he tried to infer all about human psychology. So not only was he on bodily platform, but his only subject matter was the insane. So how can he draw valid conclusions about behavior?



Prabhupāda: So what is your answer?



Devotee: Yes, his observation is correct, but at the same time it doesn't invalidate Freud's use of psychology for supposedly normal people.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) psychology.



Śyāmasundara: He didn't analyze only crazy people; he also analyzed his friends, his mother, his wife, other people also, healthy people.



Devotee: The point is in Revatīnandana Mahārāja's argument is that we have to define, then, what is crazy and what is sane.



Prabhupāda: He is saying that he had studied only some crazy people.



Śyāmasundara: No.



Prabhupāda: But that is not the fact. He analyzed some sane people also. But one psychiatrist's opinion is that (indistinct) was a civil servant, he was called to give evidence in a case where the criminal was pleading (indistinct) became insane while he committed the murder. So the civil servant was called to test him, whether actually he was insane or (indistinct) insanity. So he gave evidence that "I have tested so many persons, so I have seen that more or less everyone is insane. More or less. They are bewildered. So in that case, if insanity is the only plea that he should be excused, he can be excused. But so far as I know, everyone is more or less insane." And that is our conclusion. We say (indistinct), anyone who is infected with this material nature is more or less insane, crazy. He is crazy, not more or less. Anyone who has got this material body must be crazy. And therefore everyone is speaking in a different way.



*Devotee: As a result of Freud's philosophy he prescribed, and many of his students prescribed, certain activities. This is one thing we forget to mention*-that they prescribed certain activities to help relieve the patient of the trauma, and that is called therapy. Actually there is a higher therapy. Actually one of Freud's students would say that we are all involved in therapy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which we are, and that therapy is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therapy is a certain kind of activity which will relieve the anxieties and stresses of the mind.



Prabhupāda: That is recommended by Freud?



Śyāmasundara: No. He wasn't a therapeutical psychologist.



Devotee: No, but as a result of his...



Śyāmasundara: Later on they devised that theory of therapy.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) in support of our movement.



*Devotee: According to our philosophy, everyone in this material world is under the spell of the material nature, māyā, "that which is not." So Freud observed that not only in crazy people, but in so*-called normal people, everybody's lives are based on some types of illusion. So his psychoanalytic therapy is to trace out how I have come to this illusion or that illusion, that due to some childhood experience with my mother and father or my mouth or my genitals, something like that, all of these experiences are contributing to my unreal perception of the world. But the point which you made is that although he may have worked out what is one particular illusion, who is to prevent that there will not be another illusion? So our process is not to bother tracing out each and every illusion that we have, but to become free from the whole process of being controlled by illusory energy.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our position: not to be affected by any more illusion.



Devotee: He was analyzing the details of the particular illusion, but we are becoming free from the whole influence of māyā.



Devotee (2): (indistinct) the fire is extinguished.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) taken him out of the fire, then he is ...



Devotee: But his one point is that Freud's theory underwent many changes. In the beginning...



Prabhupāda: Then (indistinct) because that is imperfect.



Devotee: His first doctrine was that we should indulge the senses, that this would help, but later he reformed that idea, that instead of indulging the gross senses we should sublimate our natural instincts to some higher cause. So his idea was that instead of actually indulging in gross sex life, we should channel this sexual impulse to some higher cause, such as for developing the culture.



Prabhupāda: That we have explained by quoting Śrī Yamunācārya's verse, that "Since I have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whenever I think of sexual intercourse, my mouth becomes deformed and I want to spit."



Devotee: Freud would say that whatever talents you have, use them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But Freud says if somebody has the impulse to kill, he should become a surgeon. If somebody has the impulse to stab someone, then he should be directed to become a doctor and a surgeon, and then by that same cutting...



Devotee (2): This is still a limited conception of what...



Prabhupāda: Then all murderers should be sent to medical college to become surgeons instead of condemning them. Why not?



Devotee: Or put them in the army.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Devotee: They do not like that now. They recruit for the army from the prison.



Devotee (2): (indistinct)



Devotee: But we have the higher...



Prabhupāda: To some extent that is all right, because therefore the kṣatriya race is there, the fighting spirit.



*Śyāmasundara: Another part of Freud's theory is that there is a life instinct and a death instinct, that we all have these two instincts, and that the death instinct is the impulse toward aggression and destruction, whereas the life instinct is the impulse towards self*-preservation and sex and procreation. He said that people have these two impulses, and those who have the death impulse to extreme often direct it against the self, so that you have people who have accidents and diseases, that is all self-inflicted; that because I get some disease or have some accident, that is my death instinct directed against myself. So he saw that...



Prabhupāda: That is suicidal policy.



Śyāmasundara: If someone gets sick, it's because they want to get sick. Or if there is some accident, it is due to my own desire that that accident takes place. This is his theory.



Prabhupāda: How is this theory?



Devotee: We see practically. I think most of us have experienced this, and you have told us that if we overeat we will get sick, and we have all experienced that if we overeat we get sick.



Devotee: But my reason for eating more is not my tendency to get sick. (indistinct) is different. He says that this is the (indistinct).



Devotee: Yes. So therefore one should not overeat, but still even though we have all gotten sick, we will still go ahead and overeat and get sick.



Śyāmasundara: Sometimes he analyzes that if there is a problem facing someone, that he will get sick, and that will resolve the problem. Psychosomatic sickness. And he saw that accidents happen in the same way.



Devotee: It sounds like to me that what he calls life instinct is what we call logical, and what he calls death instinct is what we call tamoguṇa. If some people... Let's say Freud never came across people who have the urge for mukti. People have the urge to go...



Prabhupāda: Neither death nor life...



Devotee: They haven't touch...



*Śyāmasundara: That would be part of the life instinct, self*-preservation-if you want to live forever.



Prabhupāda: There are others also: to want to die forever.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Death instinct.



Devotee: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura writes that "Vaiṣṇavas die to live," so when we die to live, that is another instinct.



*Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad*-gītā says, (indistinct), by giving up this body, that is death, (indistinct).



*Śyāmasundara: Do you attribute accidents and disease to a desire for self*-destruction?



Prabhupāda: No. Ultimately we say there is no such thing as accident. Nothing can take place without God's sanction. So there is no question of accidents.



*Devotee: If they would have some information of the three kinds of miseries, ādhyātmika, ādibhautika, ādi*-daivika, they should stop circulating all these kinds of instincts, because they understand all these different things are categorizing...



*Śyāmasundara: I thought I heard you say before that some sicknesses and accidents are caused by the person's desire*-the person desires to be sick; the person desires to have accident.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) person desires to be sick.



Devotee: Suppose somebody says, "Well, I want to be happy." So we say, "You just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and join us, then you will be happy." So he is saying, "No. I want to keep my job. I want to do this or that." So when we can say that actually he is not serious about becoming happy. If he really were serious about becoming happy, he would join us. So in a sense he actually doesn't want to be happy. That's what he would say.



*Prabhupāda: He wants to be happy but he is miserable. That is (indistinct). He wants to be happy but he is misguided in search of happiness. Everyone wants happiness, but when one is misguided, that is called illusion. He is searching happiness without any basis. (break*-continues next day)



*Śyāmasundara: We are discussing Freud still. It was his idea that every person has certain aggressive and destructive tendencies within them, and sometimes these are directed upon the self, so that one will have accidents or sicknesses which are self*-inflicted. Does this happen?



Prabhupāda: When one commits suicide, that is not in sane condition. He is crazy. In sane condition nobody commits suicide.



*Śyāmasundara: He observed, for instance, when someone came up against a massive task, that sometimes they got sick in order to escape the task*-these kinds of things. He investigated slips of the tongue and different accidents. He said that a lot of times they are caused by the self, the psychic.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is intention, not insanity.



Śyāmasundara: Another area of his investigation was the problem of anxiety. He says that the source of anxiety is the id, or the primitive instincts, which are always forcing us to do this and do that. In other words, desire. These impulses threaten to overpower the rational or the moral self. So there is always a tension or an anxiety produced.



Prabhupāda: Anxiety shall continue so long as you are in material condition. You cannot be free from anxiety in your conditioned life.



Śyāmasundara: It is because we desired something and we were always frustrated by that desire?



Prabhupāda: Frustration must be there, because you do not desire the right thing.



*Śyāmasundara: So that is the basic cause of anxiety*-desire?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Desiring something which is not permanent. That we call (indistinct). Suppose that I wish to live forever, but if I have accepted this material body, therefore there is no question of living forever. So I am always anxious when death should come. I am afraid of death, when the body will be destroyed. This is (indistinct). So therefore the conclusion is that anxiety is due to our acceptance of something which does not exist. This is the right definition of anxiety.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the ego develops strategies of defense against this anxiety which is entering from the id, and one of the strategies it develops is repression. Whenever there is some strong animalistic desire, the ego represses that desire in order to preserve itself.



Prabhupāda: Repression is always there. We make plans in so many ways, but by nature it is frustrated. That is repression.



Śyāmasundara: Is conscious repression advisable?



Prabhupāda: Conscious repression?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Of my basic instincts, my desires. Should I consciously strive to repress these desires?



Prabhupāda: Just like if you are in a diseased condition and you desire to eat something which is forbidden by the physician. So consciously you have to repress in order to cure. That is the way.



Śyāmasundara: I heard you say once that we cannot really repress desire but we have to channel it, control it, into other objects.



Prabhupāda: Repression means, suppose you have a disease, you are suffering from typhoid fever, and the doctor says that you don't take any solid food. Now if you desire to take a paratha, you have to repress it: "No, I cannot take paratha." Suppose there is looseness of your bile(?), and if you want to take some condensed milk, you have to repress it. (indistinct) go against you, you have to repress. Repress means repressing something which is going against my welfare. So in this brahmacārī system also there is repression. He should not see young woman, he should not sit down with young woman. But he desires. The desire is that "I shall see young woman." He has to repress. So this is called tapasya, voluntary repression.



Śyāmasundara: Aren't these desires given outlet in other ways? Do we channel the desires to some other field? Instead of seeing a beautiful woman, we see the beautiful form of Kṛṣṇa, like that?



Prabhupāda: That is our process. From this (indistinct) if you have got better engagement, you give up inferior engagement. When you are captivated by seeing the beautiful form of Kṛṣṇa, naturally you have no more desire to see the beautiful form of a young woman.



Śyāmasundara: The Buddhists also say repress desires, but they mean total repression.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't say that. We just say that sometimes there is strong desire, we have to repress it. Just like my Guru Mahārāja used to say that while you get up from bed, you beat your mind a hundred times with your shoe, and when you go to bed, you beat your mind a hundred times with a broomstick. Then you will be able to control your mind. Sometimes, just like wild tiger, they have got him to control by repression. The circus players, they do that. Because it is wild tiger, repression is required. But when it is under control, there is no question of repression. You can play with the tiger; he becomes your friend. So repression is not always bad.



Śyāmasundara: Another field of investigation for Freud was the idea of projection. He said this is a technique for attributing one's own unconscious attitudes onto other people. In other words, X called Y a name, but actually Y is the object of that. In other words, for instance, X may regard Y as being jealous, but in fact X is jealous and he projects that attitude onto someone else.



Prabhupāda: That is accepted. (indistinct) Everyone thinks others like himself.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that this desire to accuse someone else of being the same is sometimes repressed and replaced by the opposite expression. In other words, someone may dislike someone, but they will inhibit that dislike and show overt symptoms of friendliness, where in fact there is no friendliness there but it is only a mock friendliness. This is one of the psychological attitudes he was studying. Sometimes someone who may have dislike for someone, instead of expressing dislike, may express just the opposite, extreme fondness, where in fact he dislikes the person.



Prabhupāda: That is called (indistinct), silliness. What is the meaning of silly?



Śyāmasundara: Silly means frivolous or superficial.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) If the other party is silly, then you also become silly. That is human nature.



*Devotee: Freud would give an example like this: The child three or four years old, and then a younger child is born in the family. The four*-year-old child sees the younger child as a source of competition for affection, and he doesn't like the younger child, but then if he expresses dislike for the child he will be chastised by the parents, so he makes as if he likes the child very much in order to get approbation, but factually he dislikes the child. That is another mechanism that...



Prabhupāda: I don't think the older child dislikes the younger child. Sometimes.



Devotee: Yes. But he would say this sometimes occurs.



*Śyāmasundara: You don't notice it very much in Indian families because they are so well-adjusted, but in Western families this quite often happens*-the older child becomes jealous of the younger child's favors, but in order to gain the favor of the parents, he expresses overt love for the younger child, or...



Prabhupāda: I don't think children are so clever, that in order to win the love of parents they will treat like that.



*Devotee: Freud put so much emphasis on children and the mentality and emotions of children-what one is experiencing, youth and so on*-and it is all concocted, don't you think?



Prabhupāda: Children can be trained in a different way. As you train them, they become like that.



Devotee: Freud says that all children experience this if there is a younger child born in the family.



Prabhupāda: They imitate. Children's position is imitation. I have seen in other children, one child was two years old and another child was three years old, and they were imitating just like they had seen sexual intercourse of their father. I have seen it. They are playing, lying down, and the male child is laying upon her. I saw it. Imitation. They do not know what is sex, but they will imitate it. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Freud analyzes that there are different defense mechanisms by which the ego protects itself.



Prabhupāda: The conclusion is that children generally imitate. They do not know what is the value, but they imitate.



*Śyāmasundara: He would say there are instinctive defense mechanisms in the psychological make*-up of everyone, such as repression, projection, excessive overt reactions of an opposite kind, different mechanisms which the ego employs to cover up, to protect itself from the impulses of the id, primitive impulses.



*Devotee: Just like he says that from the social standards of conduct and moral codes, a person develops an ideal conception of himself. He wants to think himself ideal, and this ideal conception fits the standard of the society and his environment. Then from inside, from his more animal desires, sex desire, etc., he gets impulses which don't fit that standard, that he feels some sex love, but it should not be there, so he wants to say, "I don't really have that." So he tries to repress that desire either by repressing it or by saying, "I don't desire that. Somebody else desires like that," or in so many ways he tries to cover the fact that his own psychological make*-up doesn't fit his standard. Therefore he calls it defense mechanism, a way to pretend as if I still am ideal, although I don't really have ideal desires and thoughts, like that. That's the (indistinct). So he postulated all these different mechanisms for defending the ego against the desires of the id or... [break]



Prabhupāda: You have seen that play?



Śyāmasundara: Tarzan?



Prabhupāda: Tarzan. Yes. He was brought up by monkeys. He was brought on... He has got the monkey habits. Children, if you keep them in good association, then they will come out very good. They will have psychological development in good way. And if you keep them in bad association, they will come out bad. Just like in Boston the priest regretted that these our American boys, they were so much after God, but they could not lead(?) them. Actually you American boys, before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there was no God consciousness; *there was hippie consciousness. And now this has changed, due to association. So you are all grown*-up, but even small children, if you keep them in good association, they come out nice. Demigods they come out. And if you put them in the demon association, they come out demons. So they are blank slate. As you write, it is written. That is real psychology. You can mold children as you like. They have got the capacity to... Therefore children are sent to a school for taking education, not old men.



Śyāmasundara: So there is no fixed pattern of development of children's personalities?



*Prabhupāda: No. This is nonpsychology. You can mold them in any way. As you put them into the mold, they will come out. Just like you take a soft dough, and you can mold it*-like parathas or capatis, kacaurīs.



Śyāmasundara: So actually Freud was speaking only of a certain set of children in a certain society, Western society, where they were all brought up a certain way.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. He has a got a one*-sided experience.



Devotee: Yes. He has been criticized like that.



Śyāmasundara: You don't find these neuroses in Indian families.



Prabhupāda: No.



Devotee (2): They have studied subsequently primitive tribes and they have found that these neuroses were not there. They only existed in the social structure of Victorian Europe.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore this is the conclusion*-that if you put children in right association, they will go rightly, and if you put them in wrong association, they will go wrongly. They have no independent psychology.



Śyāmasundara: Perhaps his one contribution was that he said that behavior must be understood in terms of a person's whole life history, in the total...



Prabhupāda: That is why in our Vedic system it is forbidden that even a small child, before that small child, the husband and wife should not joking. They should not talk jokingly.



Śyāmasundara: To the child?



Prabhupāda: Before the child.



Śyāmasundara: Before the child.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: To each other.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not that "It is a small child. They will not understand." But they can understand. So what to speak of having sex intercourse before the child? They will learn it. I've seen it. They do not know what is sex intercourse, but they have learned it from their rascal father and mother.



*Śyāmasundara: So Freud, actually his psychology depended upon a rather pessimistic view of human nature*-that we are all beset with these uncontrollable impulses...



Prabhupāda: This in not only pessimism, but due to poor fund of knowledge. He has no perfect knowledge, neither is he trained up by any perfect man. So he is talking all nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: His conclusion was that it was impossible to be happy in this material world, but we can alleviate some of the conflicts through this psychoanalysis. You can try and make the path as smooth as possible, but it is always...



Prabhupāda: That is one (indistinct) that you cannot be happy in this material world, but if you are spiritually elevated, spiritually trained up, then you will be happy. The same example. Just like iron is not fire, but you put it in the fire, it will act like fire. Similarly, although there is no possibility of happiness in this material world, if you are spiritually trained up, if your consciousness is changed into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will be happy. (end)





JUNG.SYA



Carl Gustav Jung



Śyāmasundara: There is also another psychologist, Carl Jung, he's also very important. He followed Freud.



Revatīnandana: To some extent.



*Śyāmasundara: I mean chronologically. Freud's idea was that unconscious processes are invariably infantile, animal, or pathological. Jung said that some unconscious energies are sources of positive and creative activity. That the unconscious is important for the growth and development of the mature and well*-adjusted personality. Freud investigated the unconscious and found that the negative side, that our unconscious life is always threatening us, that it is the cause of pathological...



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by unconscious life?



Śyāmasundara: Subconscious, that which we are not consciously aware of...



Prabhupāda: That means it is consciousness but it is covered.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that unconscious part of our mind is dangerous, infantile, animalistic. But Jung says that the unconscious can also be positive and helpful to the growth of our personality, that it can be an asset to understand this unconscious life.



Prabhupāda: But I think that the subconscious status as it is covered by the present consciousness, similarly, it can be covered by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so that those subconscious states will be no longer able to react.



Śyāmasundara: He sees a positive or creative function of this unconscious...



Prabhupāda: Just like the other day I was citing the śloka of Yamunācārya about sex life. The subconscious status is there, sex life, but because he has got Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is spiting on it. That means the subconscious state cannot overcome. So our policy is that you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then all the subconscious status which is gathered for life after life, and they are stored, they are in stock, they will not be able to overcome.



Śyāmasundara: He sees that the mind is composed of a balance of conscious and unconscious, just like light and dark, there's an equal amount, but that the function of the personality is to integrate the conscious and unconscious functions. For instance, if one had a strong sex desire, if somehow he were able to cultivate or channel that into a creative art or a creative value. Just like this brahmācārya, that sex impulse is channelled into higher thinking about Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: That is our process. Just like sex impulse is natural for everyone in the material (world), but if we think of Kṛṣṇa embracing Rādhārāṇī or dancing with the gopīs, then our sex impulse becomes subordinate, no more stronger. Hṛd*-rogaṁ kāmam āśv apahinoti. Hṛd-rogaṁ kāmam, this is a heart disease, to be lusty. But if anyone hears about the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs, through right source, then this hṛd-rogam, this lusty desire in the heart, is suppressed and he will develop devotional service.



Śyāmasundara: This is an example of what Jung would call individuation, where the energies of the unconscious sex impulse are channelled into a conscious and creative activity of God realization. So those energies are being utilized in a proper way. This is what he would call integration or individuation.



*Prabhupāda: This thing I was explaining, this prakṛti, it is very scientific. Kṛṣṇa is the only puruṣa, enjoyer and if every one of us serves everything in the propensity of His enjoyment, that is our enjoyment. That is our enjoyment*-predominated and predominator. Just like, crude example, it is not exact: husband wants to enjoy wife, and the wife voluntarily helps him in that enjoyment, the wife also becomes joyful. Similarly, the supreme enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, and if you help Him in His enjoyment, then automatically we become also joyous. Predominated enjoyer and predominator enjoyer. Both of them enjoying but one of them is predominated, one of them is predominator. So predominated, when... He helps to be predominator, reciprocation of enjoyment.



*Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one point, I think if I understand it, you will say that from the man or a woman being you can see the (indistinct) sex desire is there, from the body comes sex desire. He says then that sex desire can be elevated for self*-realization or for some kind of higher...



Prabhupāda: No, no.



Revatīnandana: No, but for some kind of higher pursuit, that same sex energy can be channelled at what you would call a higher (indistinct).



Devotee: Sublimation.



*Revatīnandana: But we say that originally there were desires to enjoy coming from the soul. If it is channelled to the body it becomes sex lust, but if it is channelled higher it becomes higher (indistinct) for advancement. It's not coming from sex, it's coming from the soul, is that correct*-the desire to enjoy?



Prabhupāda: No. Try to understand. Sex desire is there in everyone. So once sex desire is (indistinct) up, male sex desire and female sex desire. The sex desire is there in both male and female, but some from impartial view, it appears that the male is the enjoyer and the female is the enjoyed. So both of them are (indistinct). So the female, if she agrees to be predominated, enjoyed, then naturally she also becomes enjoyer. So living entities are described as prakṛti, female. So when the living entities agree to help Kṛṣṇa's sex desire, then they become happy.



Devotee (2): But it's not by Kṛṣṇa's sex desire. What is the meaning of the words "Kṛṣṇa's sex desire"? Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense enjoyment, you can say. Sensual enjoyment. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme proprietor of the senses. So when we help Kṛṣṇa for His sense enjoyment, then naturally we also (indistinct). Same example, just like a rasagullā. A rasagullā is to be enjoyed. So the hand takes it and puts it into the stomach. The hand does not enjoy it directly. And when it is put into the stomach, the hand also enjoys, the stomach enjoys, the eyes enjoys*-everything. The direct enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, and all others, indirect enjoyer. By satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, others will be satisfied. Not directly. Just like a beloved wife, when she sees the husband is eating nicely and he is enjoying nicely, she becomes happy. She becomes happy. So there are two different categories: the predominated category and the predominator category. So by seeing the predominated happy, the predominator becomes happy. That is (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: So in one sense you could say that the conscious mind is the predominator and the unconscious...



Prabhupāda: Both of them are conscious, predominated and predominator. Both of them are conscious. Without consciousness there is no life.



Śyāmasundara: But in the individual personality if there is an unconscious and a consciousness, then the unconsciousness, or the unconscious state, should be predominated by the conscious state. The conscious state...



Prabhupāda: That is practically being done. Unconscious or subconscious states sometimes come out. They are not always present. But consciousness is always there.



Śyāmasundara: But if the consciousness is not the predominator, then sometimes a person's activities will be irrational or unconscious.



Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of unconscious. Subconscious, that is there. Yes.



Devotee (3): What is the exact meaning of the term "subconscious"?



Prabhupāda: Mm? Consciousness?



Devotee (3): I understand the principle of consciousness, but what is the exact meaning of the word "subconscious"?



Prabhupāda: Subconscious means is not acting at the present moment but it comes out sometimes.



Śyāmasundara: These psychologists say that quite often the unconscious is acting through the conscious, only we don't know.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That I say. The subconsciousness is there, but they are not manifest. But sometimes they are manifest. All of a sudden coming. There is no connection. Just like a bubble in the pond. All of a sudden a bubble comes up. You see. So the coming out of the bubble, the energy was there within, all of a sudden it comes out, "Pup!" Yes. And even you trace out why it came, but the, it is to be supposed that it was in the subconscious state; all of a sudden it has manifested.



Devotee (3): The bubble coming up is a sort of a proof that there is a subconscious which is holding that bubble and then it's released it, but where it's parted by these psychologists is that the subconscious nature is moving subconsciously. What it means is that we're not conscious of it; it's acting in a subconscious plane.



Śyāmasundara: Called a shadow.



Devotee (3): And so our consciousness can be modified by our subconsciousness without our being consciously aware of it.



Prabhupāda: Not necessarily.



Devotee (3): That is the idea.



Prabhupāda: Not necessarily.



Devotee (3): We're unconscious of the activities of...



Prabhupāda: Or sometimes subconscious state manifests which has no connection with my present consciousness.



Revatīnandana: Can we say that those subconscious states which sometimes reveal themselves are like stored in impressions in the mind?



Prabhupāda: That is stored impression.



Revatīnandana: (indistinct) potentially manifest...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: They are potentially manifest, but they don't have to. But they...



Prabhupāda: It is just like photograph. If you take so many snap, but not all of them immediately moves.



Revatīnandana: So they would posit that there's a mental functioning going on, a thinking functioning going on that we're not conscious of. I think we don't agree with that. Is that correct? We say that there's one mind, sometimes mental impressions come that are stored...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: ...but in that storage area of the consciousness, there is no thinking going on there. Is that correct? The unconsciousness mind is not thinking like the conscious mind.



Prabhupāda: No, no. But the impression is there.



Revatīnandana: Yes.



Prabhupāda: All of a sudden it comes out.



Śyāmasundara: So Jung says that there are two types of unconscious process. The first...



Prabhupāda: Why does he say unconscious?



Śyāmasundara: Two types of unconscious process.



Revatīnandana: No. Subconscious.



Prabhupāda: Subconscious, that is the right term. Why does he say? Even in psychology they call "subconscious," why he's speaking "unconscious"?



Śyāmasundara: The German word is unbewust, which means "unbeknown," so we have translated "unconscious," but it means more like "subconscious."



Prabhupāda: Unconsciousness, of course there is, that is not (indistinct) the same thing. That is not manifest. Unconsciousness, but it will manifest.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are two kinds of subconscious state. The first one is the personal unconscious, or those personal items which are highly individual from one's previous childhood, from his infantile history, certain things occurred, they were repressed, and so on. These are stored in our own unconscious state and they are aroused into consciousness in dreams and through psychoanalysis. But he also posits another type of unconscious, or subconscious, state called the collective unconscious. He says that evolution has predetermined the human brain to react in terms of basic principles derived from the experience of many generations. In other words, that my ancestors had left impressions in my brain from the time of my birth, how to react according to their experiences. Is this true, that there is a collective experience which is passed on?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That experience we say paramparā. Evaṁ paramparā*-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. That is cultivated.



Revatīnandana: He would be more..., he would say there is a German mentality, Russian mentality, English mentality, (indistinct) cultural.



Śyāmasundara: No, no, no. He says that these archetypal tendencies are tendencies to react in a certain manner originating from the remote past, which are true for all humans whether they are primitive savages or whether they are modern men. Just like, well, any tendency...



Prabhupāda: We don't take any experience from the primitive savages. That is not paramparā. Savages cannot give us any advice or instruction.



Śyāmasundara: Just like when we investigate different folklores, different mythologies all over the world, we find certain symbols which are the same. For instance the swastika, we find that in the Indian mythology and you find it in Māyā or Inca, western Indians' mythologies as well. And different symbols which are common to man all over the globe, whether they are primitive or whether they are advanced, he says that these are archetypal images which for thousands of generations have been passed on in men's consciousness. So that we are composed not only of our own individual thoughts and ingredients but also the ingredients of our ancestors. Is this a fact?



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called tradition. That is called tradition. But that is not paramparā. Paramparā is different. Paramparā means we get the right knowledge from the supreme. It is not something ac..., what is called? What he is speaking?



Śyāmasundara: Acquired. Archetypal. Means the original type.



Prabhupāda: My acquired knowledge can be changed by understanding from superior. Just like generally we have got bodily concept of life, but Kṛṣṇa says, "No. You are not this body." So this knowledge is not coming to me from tradition, but I learn it from great authorities like Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: But he would, for instance, say that our means..., aware of understanding Kṛṣṇa as a supreme father, as our cause and so on, is an archetypal tendency that is shared by all human entities, that they have the same tendency to react in that way, to understand someone as their father or as their cause. And they will represent Him in different ways but always..., always similar.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We see that. Exactly similar. Rather, this father is (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme father. It is similar. As father has many sons, similarly Kṛṣṇa has many sons. You can say it is similar. As sons are born, children are born of father, similarly, we are born of Kṛṣṇa. It is similar.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, in the dream life, our dream life, in the dream life of savages or anyone else on this planet, certain common occurrences take place in the dream. Sometimes we feel we are flying in dreams, or sometimes we feel that there's a disruption coming from below, or certain symbols are there, common to all men. He calls these archetypes or the collective unconscious. All human beings share these propensities.



*Nara*-nārāyaṇa: Universally one.



Prabhupāda: Mm. We have no objection in that way.



Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it possible, or is it confirmed that the similarities in symbolism and cultural relationships, which are similar in civilizations all over the world, can that be due to the fact that they are all coming from the same source? Five thousand years ago there was one culture?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: So you find the same symbols in the South American Incas as we find in India as we find in the Pacific Islands because they are coming down from the original Vedic culture in different states of...



*Prabhupāda: Vedic culture or non*-Vedic culture, there are so many similarities. It doesn't matter. Because you are living being, the similarities are there. Just like every living being eats. It is similar to everyone. Every living being sleeps. It is similar to everyone. Every living being mates. It is similar to everyone. Every living being fears. So you have to take the greatest common factor. There are so many similarities.



Śyāmasundara: He would say also that every human being may draw a circle to represent something which is whole and complete.



Prabhupāda: That is religion. These four principles are similar to every living entity. But when you come to the human platform, there is religion. That is not in the animal. That is the distinctive function of the human being. So if human being (is) without any religious principles, he is similar to animal. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Therefore in every group of civilized human society, there is some sort of religion. It may be Hindu religion, Christian religion, Buddhist religion, but tendency is to accept some religion. And religion means understanding of God and our relationship with Him. So the modern civilization, according to Darwin's theory, they are advancing to become animal. That's it. Therefore they are claiming their forefathers are coming from monkeys. That somebody said on the other day, Vivekananda was asked that "Why your Indian forefathers did not come, long years ago?" He answered, "Because your forefathers were jumping in the tree." (laughter) It is very nice answer. "Our forefathers did not come because your forefathers were jumping in the tree."



Śyāmasundara: So this investigation by Jung opened up a new kind of universality in philosophy because it was seen that the same symbols are common to all men, of all religions.



Prabhupāda: As soon as you come to the platform of human being, there is one similarity: religion. It may be under different name. Even in the aborigines, there is religion. Just like Red Indian, they have a religion.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. And they have the same symbols, many of them.



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, that is a common concept. To accept some type of religion, this is common. Now, that type of religion may be different from me, but the principle is there. Just like eating principle is there, sleeping principle is there; similarly religious principle is there.



Śyāmasundara: And he said that each culture, or civilization, religion, they have the same understanding of the duality of existence, that there's an equal amount of dark, an equal amount of light, which he calls the yin and yang aspect or the anima and animus aspect. Under different names the same understanding is there in all religions.



Prabhupāda: Is that equality, darkness?



*Śyāmasundara: Darkness and lightness*-the duality of nature. Unconscious and conscious, he calls; these two things. He says that everyone has..., understands these are equal, balanced, these two stages, states of existence.



Prabhupāda: Not necessarily equal. Sometimes it may be imbalance. One side may be heavier than the other.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Actually he says that most personalities are imbalanced and that the goal of life is to become balanced, or integrated.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Hmm.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that not only individual analysis and dream interpretation are there, but also we must examine folklore, myth, religions, symbolisms and all these, to get a better psychological insight into the unconscious process.



*Prabhupāda: So better psychology is that first of all human being or lower than human being. Lower than human being, they have got four principles-eating, sleeping, mating, and fearing*-and human being extra, religion. Now which religion is higher, that you have to study. So that answer is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: the religious system which develops towards loving God, that is first class.



Śyāmasundara: So if they are loving God, automatically either unconscious or conscious states are all balanced, brought together.



Prabhupāda: The loving propensity is already there, (indistinct) loving God. So somebody is loving, it's a fact. So loving propensity is there, but the loving propensity is misled; therefore he becomes (indistinct). Instead of loving (indistinct), if you love Kṛṣṇa then our loving propensity becomes perfect.



*Śyāmasundara: This Jung, Carl Jung, I studied with his disciples in Zurich for six months one winter, and he came..., toward the end of his life he became very religious. At the beginning he was an atheist, but after this study he began to understand that the perfect end of psychology is to integrate and become balanced as a personality. And the best way, the only way, the time*-tested way, is to be a religious person.



Prabhupāda: Means to become a religious person means to become a lover of God. Did he love God or something else?



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. He became very much religious, and all his disciples are very religious, but in sort of a mystic way, not, not so much an organized religion. A little bit of hodge*-podge.



*Prabhupāda: That is no (indistinct). Without clear conception of God, must be hodge*-podge.



*Śyāmasundara: But they lean toward the east, toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the end*-Buddhism, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Buddhism?



Śyāmasundara: Tibetan Buddhism.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Tibetan Buddhism.



*Nara*-nārāyaṇa: Mystical understanding of good and evil forces, embodied good and evil forces, demonic forces, demonic persons. So that at the time of death the person is supposed to be floating for some time, and he can fall into the (indistinct) of demonic or be helped by good forces to achieve some liberation or higher birth.



*Prabhupāda: I think in one sense they are accepting sattva*-guṇa and tamo-guṇa.



*Nara*-nārāyaṇa: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Actually this Jung has had a great impact on modern thinkers, because he took psychology out of the laboratories and made it more a human science, a personal, personality science that involves unconscious states, mystic states, religious states, not just something analytical and cold. And especially younger people are very much fond of hearing (indistinct).



Devotee (3): (indistinct) this Carl Jung drew a picture of what he thought the face of a realized soul might look like, a person, a person in perfect knowledge. And that picture was printed, and it looks like Prabhupāda. (laughter) (indistinct)



*Śyāmasundara: His investigation of symbols around the world, he found that the symbols most used for someone who has realized the self are the jewel and the child*-these two symbols. These are symbolic of someone who has attained the ultimate perfection. A jewel and the child.



Prabhupāda: Jew and the...



Śyāmasundara: Jewel, jewel.



Prabhupāda: Oh, jewel.



Śyāmasundara: Jewel.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And a child.



Prabhupāda: How child has attained perfection?



Śyāmasundara: The same kind of innocent happiness that a child has.



Prabhupāda: Then when he grows he deteriorates. If he has attained perfection, how does he deteriorates?



*Nara*-nārāyaṇa: The Christian idea. The Christian idea is that the (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Whatever idea it may be, he could say it is perfect, then how it deteriorates?



Śyāmasundara: Well, it's just a symbol of someone who has achieved perfection, that they are childlike, that they are happy and jolly, innocent.



Prabhupāda: That is another thing.



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: But the child is not perfection.



Śyāmasundara: No. It's only a symbol.



Revatīnandana: (indistinct) The child symbolizes faith and...



Śyāmasundara: Love and...



Revatīnandana: ...natural devotion. Like Jesus said, "Unless you come to me as little children, you can't enter into the kingdom of God."



Prabhupāda: That's (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Even Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's often portrayed as a child.



Revatīnandana: He's eternally child, sixteen years old (indistinct).



*Nara*-nārāyaṇa: (indistinct) a symbol (indistinct) Nārada Muni, or yourself or Kṛṣṇa, (indistinct) symbol of a child. We have an actual person.



Devotee (3): (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: Anyway, another one of his ideas is that the unconscious material on the person's personality sometimes emerges in the form of a complex, what's called a complex. This complex has the ability to initiate and organize behavior. Sometimes we say someone has a superiority complex or an inferiority complex or this complex or that complex. It means that they tend to act in a certain way. Inferiority complex means I consider myself inferior to others, and I react in a very inhibited fashion. Or if I have a superiority complex I act in a very arrogant fashion. Like that. These are his observations, that people who act in certain ways which are called complexes.



Prabhupāda: So we are..., what we are? Inferior or superior? Kṛṣṇa conscious, we think ourselves as servant of God. Is that inferior or superior?



Śyāmasundara: Well, our practice is not unconscious.



Prabhupāda: No. We are conscious.



Śyāmasundara: We are conscious, so we do not rely on the complex to guide us, or an unconscious impulse to guide us.



Prabhupāda: No. We are not guided by impulse. We are guided directly, instruction from the superior.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Our process is to acquire knowledge from the superior. We are not guided by these complexes.



Śyāmasundara: He said that there are two basic attitudes: an extrovert attitude and an introvert attitude. An extrovert has an outgoing orientation; they are always friendly and sociable. An introvert has an inward withdrawal from his environment and is always very quiet and meditative. These two types of personalities, he sees existing everywhere. And all of us, we are these..., one or other of these personalities.



Prabhupāda: Muni. This is called muni.



Śyāmasundara: Introvert?



Prabhupāda: I think introvert, yes. Muni.



Revatīnandana: The introspective.



Devotee (3): There's a difference between an introspective person and an introvert. An introvert, somebody who is concerned with his false ego, turns in on himself, that he doesn't express himself outwardly to others, while an extrovert does. "Vert" means "to turn." So he's turned in upon himself, on his own personality.



*Prabhupāda: Self*-centered.



*Devotees: Self*-centered, yes.



*Devotee (5): An extrovert is also self*-centered, he keeps himself in the center of a large social structure. He only considers his own personality without interacting with others.



Devotee (3): One has more or less one or the other...



Prabhupāda: But how do you say that man is a social animal? How can you avoid society?



Śyāmasundara: An introvert doesn't avoid society, but in all his activities he doesn't relate to others actively. He'll go to school, he goes to the things that he has to do, but he's always very quiet and timid, shy.



*Nara*-nārāyaṇa: A mouse is an introvert, and a tiger is an extrovert. A tiger is an extrovert. He doesn't care for anyone.



Prabhupāda: But the mouse is also.



Devotee: He's like that?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct*-many talking together)



Revatīnandana: It seems like this introverted personality actually covers two different personalities. One is that kind of people who are dreamers, who have retreated from the world, and the other kind of people who actually (are) introspective, who are looking for truth. These can be two people within that category.



Devotee (6): We have bhajanānandī and goṣṭhyānandī.



Śyāmasundara: Yeah, extrovert and introvert.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Yeah, that's the same classification. Everywhere people are one or the other of those. Active or passive.



Revatīnandana: It seems like the extrovert is (indistinct), that the extroverted person's in the mode of passion.



Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct)



*Revatīnandana: But the introverted person could be even in tamoguṇa or sattva*-guṇa.



Prabhupāda: That is right.



Revatīnandana: So that is not (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: So similar, that there are the paramahaṁsa and there are mleccha*-yavanas. The paramahaṁsa is not under any rules and regulations, and the mlecchas also, they are not under rules and regulations.



Revatīnandana: Like Śukadeva Gosvāmī, they thought he was a madman, and this would be tamoguṇa, but actually he was...



Prabhupāda: Transcendental.



Devotee (3): It's time for massage now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: All right. [break]



Śyāmasundara: So today we'll finish that psychologist Jung, Carl Jung. As we were discussing before, his idea is that there is a collective unconscious, there is an unconscious state of mind and there is a conscious state of mind. The inner, the working between these two, conscious and unconscious, determines the personality of the living entity. The behavior of the living entity is determined by the interaction between his unconscious and his conscious...



Prabhupāda: That is called, in Sanskrit, (indistinct), (indistinct) and suṣupti. When you are fully conscious, that is called (indistinct). And (indistinct), dreaming, that (indistinct). And another state, suṣupti, no consciousness. That is (indistinct). It is called... Operation?



Śyāmasundara: Anaesthesia.



Prabhupāda: Anaesthetic.



Śyāmasundara: This dreaming state he calls unconscious also.



Prabhupāda: No. That is conscious. I am dreaming, I am conscious. That is not unconscious.



Śyāmasundara: He says that in this dream state...



Prabhupāda: Suppose if a tiger is coming to attack me, I am crying, and people are hearing. How do you say it is unconscious?



Śyāmasundara: I don't know the terms.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee (3): The subject matter of which one is unaware in the waking state is termed by him the unconscious. But there is consciousness there, and because of that, the terminology is not...



Śyāmasundara: The contents of the unconscious come into a conscious mind during dreams...



*Prabhupāda: That is consciousness. That is dream. You can say dream. You must analyze scientifically. Dream goes such*-and-such. But anaesthetic stage is unconscious. When your throat is being been cut up, you (indistinct). But in sleeping state, if (indistinct) immediately (indistinct). That is not unconscious.



Devotee: Yes.



*Śyāmasundara: In other words, he says that there are many factors which are unconscious which determine our personality that we may not be aware of*-many hopes, many fears, many contents of our own consciousness that clarify our personality and which we are not aware of...



Prabhupāda: Yes, (indistinct). Just like when we are in the womb of our mother. Up to seven months we are unconscious. That means to remain unconscious for seven months, that is death. Living entity does not die; he remains unconscious for seven months.



Devotee (5): That's actually suṣupti?



Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] (indistinct) ...anaesthetic, when the medicinal effect is lost, it comes. Zero mistake. (indistinct) come. These are three stages: consciousness, dream, and unconsciousness. So he does not know suṣupti. He simply considers the dreaming unconsciousness. When he sees dream, he thinks (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Not really... But because there are so many unconscious factors that govern our personality, our behavior, that unless a person becomes aware of these unconscious factors, then he is more or less a slave to them, to his unconscious life. So the whole point of psychology is to point out to a person all his unconscious contents, that he becomes aware of them and faces them face to face.



Prabhupāda: That we are teaching. That we have shown. But he remains unconscious state. That is (indistinct). That we are teaching. We are simply, loudly stating, "Please wake up. Please wake up. We are not this body. We are not this body." So these are the (indistinct) dream. You cannot raise him to the consciousness. He is fully packed up in matter. That is not possible. But he is also conscious. That is proved by (indistinct). He applied machine: in the remote part he is feeling the pain when you cut. But it is not very manifest. Just like children, they are not so conscious, you operate. I have got a (indistinct), my eldest daughter, she (indistinct). So she was about less than one year... No, no. About six months. The doctor was operating, (indistinct). She was not frightened. (indistinct) Minor operation. So the human form of life is the developed consciousness of the living entity. In other forms of life they're more or less in dreaming state or unconscious state. But as living entity, the consciousness is there, in different stages.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes, he (indistinct) in all mythology and religion and all of these so*-called scientific symbols for the conscious state and the unconscious state. Just like the unconscious state is often represented as the ocean.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Śyāmasundara: The unconscious state is often represented or symbolized by the ocean or (indistinct) or as the...



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Śyāmasundara: The ocean.



Prabhupāda: Ocean has no consciousness. It is matter.



Śyāmasundara: Well, as a symbol...



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Śyāmasundara: ...of the unconscious state. They are often represented as an ocean or as a figure of what he called the anima.



Prabhupāda: He mentions animals?



Devotee: No. He called it anima. It's a Greek word for the female aspect of nature.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Śyāmasundara: And the male aspect is often represented by the sun or (indistinct) sky or the father, called the animus, the father aspect of nature.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We also compare sun as the (indistinct) knowledge. Just like we compare Kṛṣṇa with sun and māyā with darkness.



Śyāmasundara: And māyā is a woman.



*Prabhupāda: Māyā is woman. You can compare like that, darkness. Kṛṣṇa sūrya*-sama māyā andhakāra [Cc. Madhya 22.31]. So as soon as there is sunshine, there is no more darkness. Similarly, when, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no more that state of unconsciousness or dreaming. (indistinct) conscious.



Śyāmasundara: He says that all human entities have a mixture of divine and demonic tendencies.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He is divine by nature. He is covered by nondivine, by māyā. That is our philosophy. He's in a (indistinct). Just like this same example: the man is living, there is breathing, but he has no consciousness. Just like you put electric in that (indistinct), how you call, (indistinct). So similarly, by the influence of māyā, we have forgotten ourself, our spiritual nature.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this unconscious state or this, I don't know, maybe we can call it māyā, the unconscious life, has also beneficial effects in that it...



Prabhupāda: What is that beneficial?



Śyāmasundara: That it's also a reservoir of creative energy. If it is utilized properly, then it can be an asset.



Prabhupāda: When (indistinct) utilize it. A person who has, who is under the influence of anaesthetic, what he can do? He cannot do anything. He has to drop again to consciousness platform, then he can do something.



Śyāmasundara: He says that behavior is classified under different functions, for example there is sensory behavior, thinking behavior, fear and emotional behavior...



Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct), because the animals, the consciousness is not developed, and the animals' behavior is different. Similarly, if a man is not in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, (indistinct) any difference? Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he'll not act anything like killing one animal, but another who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he will kill animals: "I must kill. I must kill." But the same man, when he is brought into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he'll refuse. Just like the shikari, (indistinct), he was killing animal, half dead, he would enjoy. The same man, by grace of Nārada, when he became Vaiṣṇava, he was not prepared to kill even one ant. So the man is the same, the consciousness is different. So our program is like that. To bring man into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will become perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these different functions, people can be typified or classified as being more or less in one of these types of functions. We describe a man as a thinking man or a feeling man, a sensory man...



*Prabhupāda: That we also say, that just like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra*-in terms of different stages of consciousness. So the highest stage is the Vaiṣṇava.



Śyāmasundara: How is..., how does Vaiṣṇava act? What are his...?



Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava acts in terms of his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, God.



Śyāmasundara: So he is both. He is all these things. He is thinking, he is feeling...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Vaiṣṇava means fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: So his idea is that everyone adapts to their environment, either as, according to one of these three things: extroversion, introversion, or a dominant function. So...



Prabhupāda: That we also say. According to material condition of life, they differ, they are classified. The highest stage is Vaiṣṇava. He is completely transcendental (to) material condition. Next the brāhmaṇa, then next the kṣatriya, then next the vaiśya, then next the śūdra, and next means less than śūdra, all caṇḍālas. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because that is natural, even from the caṇḍāla stage one can be brought to the highest transcendental stage of Vaiṣṇava.



Śyāmasundara: So would you say that the lower stages of life are, could be termed irrational, and the higher stages of life termed rational?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Righteous.



Śyāmasundara: So the consciousness becomes more and more developed...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...as we proceed higher.



*Prabhupāda: Not developed. Uncovered. There are different layers of material contamination. So that has to be cleansed. (aside:) You can come this side. (indistinct). The more the layers are cleansed, his original consciousness come out. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleaning the dirty things accumulated on the heart.



Śyāmasundara: So consciousness is not the (indistinct)...



Prabhupāda: Consciousness, as soon as they (indistinct), then consciousness is there. That is the symptom of living condition.



Śyāmasundara: Although the consciousness of a tree...



Prabhupāda: Just like fire. There is fire, so cover it. Covering, covering. When it is true cover, then they don't get the heat and light. But they cleanse the covering, move the covering, the fire is there.



Śyāmasundara: So even the consciousness of the tree is originally higher than (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: Yes. It is simply covered. The potency is there. Just like a flower in the bud stage, the potency is there to become a (indistinct) flower. So the covering by gradually coming out, coming out, finally, very beautiful rose.



Śyāmasundara: But someone would say that that bud is developing into a flower.



Prabhupāda: That is a (indistinct) in the terminology. Just like we say that we are changing bodies, they say developing bodies. So anyway, either you say developing or changing, the original body is not there. That you have to accept. The child's body, either you say it has developed into youth's body, and either you say that is (indistinct) body. I say the child's body is gone; *it is another body. In both cases, the child's body is no longer existing. That you have to agree*-either you call developed or it has gone.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the personality which we manifest in our social lives, in our family life, at work, etc., is called our persona, or our mask. We have to present a certain personality in our family and social and our working life, which is...



Prabhupāda: This is (indistinct), this mask. Just like your face is covered with some mask. That mask is taken away, uncovered, then your real face is seen. So it is not development; *it is covering. He cannot say that I saw you just like a monkey's face, but when the mask is taken away, become a beautiful gentleman face. This gentleman's face is not developed, it is already there. Simply it was covered by the mask and you take it away and you see your real self. That is our process, ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The mirror is covered with dust, and you cleanse it and see your face nicely. So it is not the developing process, it is cleansing process.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that we show ourself to the world not as our total self...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...but that we show a picture of ourself...



Prabhupāda: That we call ignorance, ajñāna. And that ajñāna is moved by the spiritual master. Therefore the spiritual master is worshiped, ajñāna timirāndhasya jñānāñjana śalākayā. "I was covered by the darkness of ignorance and the spiritual master has moved that darkness by giving me knowledge, jñānāñjana."



Śyāmasundara: So this persona, or this mask that someone wears, or show it to their family or their friends, is not the whole self. He says that the, behind that mask there is what's called the shadow, or those repressed dispositions which a person has but does not show.



*Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavatam, apaśyatām ātma*-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2]. Those who are not seeing the position of spiritual, as the spirit soul, they are so much attached in this family life, worldly life, national life, (indistinct) material life, this life, that life. They are all false, but because he has no knowledge of the soul, he is attached to all these things. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. Ātma-tattvam means the science of soul. That he does not know; *therefore he is attached, gṛheṣu gṛha*-medhinām. These are different types of gṛha. Just like a man is not very much advanced in nationalism, he thinks "This my house is everything." And one who has developed that like Gandhi, his family life developed into nationalism. So that is also gṛha. He is asking, I mean to say, Englishman, "Go away! It is mine." But that mahātmā, that greatness is simply expanding beyond the gṛha. He's a still gṛha-medhi. We don't say like that, "Oh, you Englishman, you cannot have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So that, therefore, those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are mahātmā. (indistinct) These kind of mahātmās, they are not mahātmā, they are gṛha-medhis, but they have been given the title, false title. Just like in Bengali we say, the mother's love is child, and the child is blind. Still, "Oh, my child's eyes are just like lotus flower." (greets guests) [break]



Śyāmasundara: So in other words, Jung is saying that we have our personality that we show to the world but we also have a personality which we don't show to the world, which is secret which is repressed, which we don't like to reveal.



Prabhupāda: That is, that is called cheating. Yes. In Sanskrit it is called bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsā, karaṇā. Vipralipsa, that is one of the tendencies of the conditioned soul, that he wants to cheat others. So their confidential means cheating.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, someone may have some kind of desire which he does not like to reveal to others, so he keeps it suppressed, unconscious.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is politics. That is diplomacy. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita advises, (Sanskrit): "Don't manifest your intentions by your words, since you are thinking (indistinct)." These things are required because it is material world. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has advised, tato śāstram samadvayam (?). The people are cheaters, so you have to become cheater also; otherwise you cannot live. What can you say? Just like a shopkeeper, everyone knows that he is making profit, but he has to make bargain. So a shopkeeper says, "I am taking (indistinct). You are my friend, I am not taking a single paisa profit." How he'll do it, come on (indistinct). But if you know that he is making business, he must make profit. But he's cheated. He doesn't want to be cheated. That's all. So therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "This is a society of cheaters and the cheated." That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Sometimes this shadow personality, he says, is not even known to myself. I don't even know my...



Prabhupāda: Why you will know? You are being cheated. How can you know?



Śyāmasundara: I mean my own personality. I think I am this, but actually I am that.



*Prabhupāda: That is also true, because when one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or self conscious, he thinks this body as "I am." Yasyātma*-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13], sa eva go-kharaḥ. So such persons who identify the body as the self, he is no better than the ass and the cow.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, I may think that I am like this, I am like that, but I don't realize that I am also like this. There's some other part of me which I'm not aware of which is guiding my behavior, which I repress.



Prabhupāda: Unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks (indistinct), that "I am like this," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this," "I am that." But when he's fully conscious, he knows that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is the final (indistinct). Otherwise he (indistinct), "I am this," "I am that," "I am this," "I am that."



Revatīnandana: (indistinct) actor who take parts in a cinema production, he said that whenever he takes a part he probably could becomes, that actor, he (indistinct), or the part that he actually forgets who he thinks he is.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The best actor is he who forgets his real identity and plays blindly. That is best actor. He forgets, but he creates such (indistinct) that he forgets that he's Mr. Such*-and-such.



Śyāmasundara: Yes, but secretly, unknown to him there may be something about him that he does not know himself...



Prabhupāda: So therefore (indistinct) we are after (indistinct). Therefore we have forgotten our self but we are identifying "I am this," "I am that," "I am this," "I am that."



*Nara*-nārāyaṇa: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: (indistinct). Yes. So (indistinct) occupation.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the purpose of psychology is to come to grips with our unconscious or our shadow personality, and we must know who I am completely.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge. That is real (indistinct). Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī presented himself to Lord Caitanya, "Please let me know what I am." This is the business. It requires the assistance of guru to understand our real identity.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, he says that all male personalities, in their shadow personality, there is a bit of the female, and in all females there is a bit of the male propensity. So often we cover these up and become repressed and we do not understand our actions.



*Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy, because every living entity is by nature a female, prakṛti. I was discussing this morning, parā prakṛti, living entity, but it is prakṛti. Prakṛti means female and puruṣa means male. So here in this material world, although we are prakṛti, we are (indistinct) ourselves as puruṣa. This male*-female dress, that is immaterial. Our consciousness is now male consciousness. A female, the so-called female, here, she also wants to enjoy a male, and the male also, he also wants to enjoy the female. Both of them have the same propensity of enjoying. So this enjoying propensity is for male. Therefore jīvātmā is sometimes described as puruṣa. But actually the jīvātmā, the living entities, they are puruṣa, he's prakṛti. Prakṛti means predominated, and puruṣa means predominator. So we are all predominated. And the (indistinct) predominator is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore originally, by constitution, we are all females.



*Śyāmasundara: But in the male, so*-called male species, there's a different temperament. There's dominance, there's aggressiveness...



Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no difference in temperament. The real (indistinct), the center (indistinct). Just like in your country it is the women is very (indistinct) that why they shall not be treated exactly like men. And the same thing is coming in our country also.



Śyāmasundara: And the men also want to have long hair and...



Prabhupāda: Actually, the real position is that every living entity is female, originally. But falsely he is imitating to become a male, enjoy. This is called māyā. Actually he is female, but he is trying to imitate the supreme male, Kṛṣṇa. That is called māyā. This is not fact. So our proposition is, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you come to the original state, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are not predominator, you are predominated. Predominated means female.



Śyāmasundara: So for instance in nature, he sees male and female characteristics. For instance a mountain, we see a mountain and we give it a male, a male characteristic because it is strong, it is dominant, it is (indistinct), like this. And the sea, which is passive and calm and deep, we give a female aspect. He sees all these in nature.



Prabhupāda: These are all mental concoction. It has to be more scientifical. You can think of something in your own idea. That's all. That is not the real identity of it. What is that?



Devotee (3): You said that all things are created out of the water of origination. There's an ocean, the Kāraṇodaka, by which all these worlds are generated, (indistinct) the primeval ocean, from which (indistinct) the ocean...



Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the ocean has been generated? Everything is generated from the breathing of Lord Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is lying in that ocean, that's all. So I'm lying on this bed, and something is coming out of my breathing, that does not mean it is coming from the bed. That's all.



Devotee (3): That is the reference to the ocean of the womb.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) You can say like that. (indistinct) And the child is floating in that water.



Śyāmasundara: Well, are there not certain characteristics that are particularly male and certain characteristics that are particularly female?



Prabhupāda: Male is only God. That is the characteristic. Male means enjoyer and female means enjoyed. So except God, except Kṛṣṇa, nobody is enjoyer. Therefore He's God.



Śyāmasundara: So it's a false idea to think that anything is masculine besides God.



Prabhupāda: Masculine is a different (indistinct). Masculine gender. So that is called (indistinct), symbolic. But a real male is Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: So what is masculine?



Prabhupāda: Masculine, that means the symbolic representation in the material body is called masculine. Just like we (indistinct)... Just like in Bengali it is said, when you see cow, whether you see male or female, you just raise up the tail and you will understand. So a cow, I mean to say, vagina is covered by the tail, so if you raise on the tail of a calf by, simply by raising the tail you can understand whether it is a male calf or female calf. So this science is a representation of the mentality.



Śyāmasundara: So the mentality of God.



*Prabhupāda: Not God*-of the particular living entity.



Śyāmasundara: So to say that, for instance, the ocean is a female, has female characteristics, and the mountain has masculine characteristics...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) I do not know why the ocean has female characteristics (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Well, they say "mother ocean." They sometimes say "mother ocean."



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is just like because ocean keeps within, her cover, covering element. (indistinct) element. As the female keeps the child covered within the abdomen, so in that comparison you can say "mother." But similarly in the mountain also, there are so many minerals, so many gems, and so many nice stones. Simply by saying it is very strong. So generally male is strong and the female is weak. In that sense you can give a terminology.



Śyāmasundara: So he gives a definition of the cell. He says that "The cell is a center or an organization within the personality which seeks to develop towards a goal of maturity and integration, the harmonious bonds of conscious and unconscious disposition." So he says that within the personality there's a center, which strives to organize the personality in such a way that anything is integrated, unconscious and unconscious. Unconscious and conscious states are all integrated, in harmony. This is the cell.



Prabhupāda: What is the explanation, unconscious?



Śyāmasundara: Well...



Prabhupāda: Soul, soul at the present moment as we take it, that is... Present moment his real consciousness is covered. That we are always discussing.



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't see a soul, per se, he sees that a personality or a...



Prabhupāda: What is that personality? As soon as we come to the personality... Entity, that we call soul. Individual entity, adding personality, that is soul.



Śyāmasundara: He would call personality a set of behavior which is organized...



Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the personality comes? Because you are a living entity, you have got separate identity, therefore I recognize your personality. So without individual soul, how you can think of personality? There is no question of personality unless there is that individual living entity.



Revatīnandana: Is he saying that the self is an entity that tries to coordinate the conscious and unconscious?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Revatīnandana: Or is the self the interaction of the conscious and unconscious.



Śyāmasundara: No. He says that the self strives for an integration and a harmonious balance of the conscious and unconscious dispositions.



Prabhupāda: That, that can be explained in this way. Just like a soul who is now in sleeping state, he can be taught into Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that unconscious, if he says unconsciousness, sleeping state, that is integrated. So in that way you can explain. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,



jīv jāgo jīv jāgo gauracānda bole

*kota nidrā jāo māyā*-piśācīra kole



"You are living entity, just get up, get up, get up! How long you shall sleep in this way under the lap, of the lap of māyā?" Jīv jāgo.



*bhajibo boliyā ese saṁsāra*-bhitare

*bhuliyā rohile tumi māyā*-piśācīra bhare

enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro lāgi

*hari*-nāma mahā-mantra lao tumi māgi



*So this is the process, hari*-nāma, gradually bringing the sleeping man to the real consciousness of life. And that is education. (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: So actually he is defining the soul but he doesn't call it the soul.



Prabhupāda: He has no idea of the soul. Poor fund of knowledge



Śyāmasundara: He calls it the center.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He is missing the point.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the self is very rarely complete or unified. Very rarely do we find someone who is unified, or have balanced their life, integrated their life. So his idea is that everyone must strive to achieve the self, that they must realize the self. This is the purpose of our lives.



Prabhupāda: That we are preaching. (Sanskrit) "Now we are human form of life, you can understand your position." That is our repeated request, repeated request, that don't waste this opportunity.



Revatīnandana: So when he says that the self is rarely completely balanced or integrated, so we say the self is always very stable. The self is always existing, always balanced, unchanging. So he's considering...



Prabhupāda: When he's in influence of māyā, he's imbalanced. Imbalance and ignorance. Not in knowledge. Therefore he's called māyā.



Revatīnandana: The consciousness is...



Prabhupāda: Consciousness is there, consciousness is always there. As far as there is soul, there is consciousness. But this consciousness is colored. Just like generally water is transparent, but if you mix with color, it becomes reddish. Just like rain falls from the sky, it is distilled water, pure water, but as soon as it touches the earth it becomes muddy. Similarly, the soul is pure consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but when it comes in contamination with the three modes of material nature, it becomes a different color. So at that time they fight, "I am Hindu, you are Mussulman," or "You are Christian," "I am (indistinct)" "I am white," "You are black," because he has been contaminated by different colors of the material modes of nature. He is identifying with that colorful position in the body. This is ignorance. This (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: So if someone is given knowledge of their unknown self, or their shadow personality, and they integrate that knowledge in their conscious life and to act as a unifying personality...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That man who is giving knowledge, he is called guru.



Śyāmasundara: I see. So this type of knowledge has to be done, he would say, through a psychiatrist or a psychoanalyst.



Prabhupāda: Anyway, somebody has to do it. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. He must approach a guru to discover his...



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So he says here, "Potentialities which are hitherto unexploited and which lie covered in him can be brought out by the knowing self and utilized."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our process. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is acting as guru, and He's asking everyone, jīv jāgo jīv jāgo. Therefore the conclusion should be that in order to come to the real position of our life, we must approach a guru, a person who knows what is what.



Śyāmasundara: So that person can see us for what we are, more than we can see ourselves.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here is a physician, he knows simply by feeling his pulse beating, he can understand what is his position. And he gives medicine according to that. Āyur*-vedic system is very nice. One has to learn how this pulse is beating, then immediately diagnosis is there, medicine is given.



Śyāmasundara: These psychologists like Jung, all have different processes for finding out a person's unconscious mind. For instance, interpreting his dreams, or by sometimes they put a picture, they say, "How do you look at this picture? What do you see in this picture?"



Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is the standard status of the mind. He doesn't know. Even the psychiatrist, he is also not in sane mind. "Physician heal thyself." Because he's identifying himself with this body, so he is also insane. So that treatment will not perfect. How a diseased man can become a physician? Therefore the English word is, "Physician heal thyself."



Śyāmasundara: So this Jung sees a positive aspect of psychology, not just the negative aspect, whereas Freud saw that the goal of psychology was to restrict or reach (indistinct) these powerful, primitive instincts then to mitigate troublesome symptoms, which is a rather pessimistic or negative philosophy. Jung says that man is capable of changing positively into something better by the use of psychology.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why he was making this propaganda unless there is chance that we will be better? And actually we see they are becoming better.



Śyāmasundara: So actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also psychology.



*Prabhupāda: (indistinct) That is the term of psychology. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: [Bg. 6.47] "Of all the yogis, the Kṛṣṇa devotee is the highest, topmost." All, of all psychologists, the person who is Kṛṣṇa conscious is the most elevated. Transcendental position. Everyone is within the modes of the material nature, but a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is above, transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26].



Śyāmasundara: In one sense Jung is very optimistic that he sees that everyone has divine and demonic potencies in the (indistinct), but that the divine potencies can be brought out in everyone.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are trying. That we are trying. We are trying to make the demons liberated. Actually there is two positions: the divinity and the demon. There are two classes of men: the demon and the divine. The divine means Kṛṣṇa conscious. And just opposite, he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a demon. That's all. Demon and divine, this is the difference. So long one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is demon.



Śyāmasundara: He says that (indistinct). These tendencies, demonic tendencies, that (indistinct) a personality, Jung sees them often as external beings that have entered into us.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like to become feverish, that is not my natural state. Under certain circumstances, I have become weak (indistinct) fever, but that is not my natural condition. If medicine is given, the fever is gone. Then I am (indistinct), and that is called mukti. Mukti, liberation, means to get out of this feverish condition. That's all. (indistinct) mukta, in Sanskrit it is called. Roga is not natural. It comes, disease comes. So whatever disease... Therefore Bhagavad*-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9], that all these four things are disease, externally. Otherwise the living entity has no birth, no death, no disease, no illness. Nitya sasta (Sanskrit). How they're getting older? These are externalities. People are so ignorant that they don't know how to drive away these external (indistinct) conditions. They think it is natural, "Let me suffer." That is their ignorance.



Śyāmasundara: One of Jung's favorite techniques for improving a person's personality is to force that person to bring up the demonic force in himself and treat it as another person. If the demon within me is not really me, it's another personality which causes...



Prabhupāda: That is not very important, how one becomes affected by some disease. But when the disease is there, the treatment must be there. That is natural. Instead of tracing out the history, what is the use? That the disease is there, make treatment and be cured, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: But this demon that haunts me, that is another personality besides my real personality.



Prabhupāda: That is not a... Personality, I am. Just like delirium, the same personality, but he's talking nonsense in delirium. If you remove the delirium condition, then he becomes again the original person. Delirium is not person.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see.



Indian man: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: When we say that a person is ghostly haunted, does that mean there is another personality which is inhabiting his...



Prabhupāda: Influencing.



Śyāmasundara: Influencing.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So that that...



Prabhupāda: Just like a man is hypnotized. Another man is hypnotizing him.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. So that other personality, the foreign personality, can be... (end)





SARTRE.SYA



*Jean*-Paul Sartre



*Śyāmasundara: Today's philosopher is called Jean-Paul Sartre. He is a contemporary French philosopher, and he is the father of this existentialism philosophy, which deals with the fundamental problem of dualism*-that is, subject and object. He calls the object, the things of this world, he calls them "beings" because they exist, and he calls the subject, or the consciousness, individual consciousness, "nothingness," "no-thingness." This is a thing, but the individual entity is no thing, because it is constantly changing.



Prabhupāda: Why it is not thing?



Śyāmasundara: Because the structure is not determinant. It is always changing. On both sides there is nothing.



Prabhupāda: Changing is the mind, not the person. Changing positions is of the mind. So he is identifying the person with the mind; therefore he is not a perfect philosopher.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this objective being, like these objects, he calls it "being in itself," and only these concrete phenomena are real. But he says these concrete phenomena are more than their phenomenal appearances. Just like this thing is more than what it appears to be, but it is no more than the sum total of all its appearances. In other words, this thing may appear like this, but it is more than this; it is all of its possible appearances, from the time it was clay, to the time the paint was applied, different things, in all its appearances, that is the reality of this thing. It is not just this thing; it is all of its appearances. But that is all. There is nothing more than that. It doesn't have any reality beyond its phenomenal appearances.



Prabhupāda: From where the material came, first of all? Beyond the material, the source of material?



Śyāmasundara: He says that "Material in itself is nonconscious, inert, fixed, opaque, uncreated, devoid of potency, lacking becoming, and without any reason for existing; therefore it is superfluous." In other words, existence doesn't have any meaning.



Prabhupāda: So what is the substance?



Śyāmasundara: Well, there is no meaning to anything. It's just here. There is no tracing out. It's not created; it's just here.



*Prabhupāda: This kind of philosophy is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā as asuric philosophy, demonic philosophy, because the demons, they do not believe in any superior cause. They everything take as accidental. Just like a man and woman unite accidentally and a child is born. It is like that. There is no actually purpose. The Śaṅkara philosophy, atheistic Śaṅkara philosophy is also like that. Prakṛti and puruṣa meets. All of a sudden there is lust and they meet, and there is some product; otherwise there is no other cause. This sort of theory is called asuric.



Śyāmasundara: He says that these things have no reason for existing. There is no purpose.



Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Everything has its purpose. Without purpose, nothing is created. And there is a supreme cause. So they have no brain to go farther. That is their defect. So what they superficially see, they take it. They do not find out the farther cause. That is less intelligent. Many modern scientists also say that simply explain "It is nature, nature." But we do not believe in such theory. We understand that the background of nature is God. Nature is not independent. Nature is phenomena; but the noumena is God, Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the phenomena and the noumena are the same. Phenomena are noumena. There is no separation.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Same in this sense: just like the sun and the sunshine is the same. The sunshine is light and the sun is also light. The sun is hot and sunshine is also hot. But still, you cannot say that the sunshine and the sun are the same. Therefore Lord Caitanya's philosophy, simultaneously one and different, that is perfect. He is taking only the oneness, but there is still difference. Just like the fire and the heat. You cannot separate heat from fire, but still heat is not fire. That is perfect knowledge. So therefore heat is simultaneously one and different from fire. That is perfect. You are getting heat, but that does not mean that you are touching the fire. So this is perfect theory. One and different, both.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that opposite to this objective being is the subjective individual, which he calls "being for itself." And he says that the nature of this subjective individual is that it is incomplete, it has potency, but the structure is indeterminant. There is no mass or no density. These things all have density and mass*-they are heavy, gross-but the "being for itself," or the subjective individual, has no mass or density.



Prabhupāda: This is like the sense and sense objects. Just like we have got the senses smelling. This is concrete. But the smell is not concrete.



Śyāmasundara: Subtle.



*Prabhupāda: Subtle in this sense, that I cannot... Because we are so materialistic that our senses cannot perceive anything which is not concrete. But the highest philosophy, Vedic philosophy, the sense of smelling and the sense object, smell, simultaneously created. Unless there is smell, the nose has no value. Therefore the sense and the sense object, they are simultaneously created. Tan-mātrā. In Sanskrit word it is called tan-mātrā. Just like eyes and beauty, simultaneously. If there is no beauty, then there is no value of eyes. If there is no music, the ear has no value. If there is no soft thing, the touch has no value. Similarly, everything is created-the sense and the sense object and the controller of the senses*-and that is... (guests come in) Aiye, please come in. [break]



*Śyāmasundara: Last time we didn't quite finish the last philosopher we're going to do in the modern times, namely Jean*-Paul Sartre, a French philosopher. He is living now. His philosophy briefly is called existentialism. And last time we...



Prabhupāda: What does it actually mean, "existential"?



Śyāmasundara: It means that existence is prior to essence. In other words, the fact that I am first of all existing, living here, is the important thing, and that I determine what I am, my essence, as I unfold my life. Existence is the most important thing, prior to essence, what I am, my nature.



Prabhupāda: What is the essence and what is existence?



Śyāmasundara: Well, according to Sartre, existence... All I know when I am analyzing what I am, all I know is that I exist.



Prabhupāda: Everyone knows that.



Śyāmasundara: "I am." This is the first fact. What I am more than that is determined as I live my life, as I grow older...



Prabhupāda: That is no standard of why living. The dog is living. He also exists. The cat is living. He also exists. And man is also living, exists. So different types of living beings are existing in different consciousness. So what is the standard consciousness?



*Śyāmasundara: There is no standard. He says that man's essence is nothingness or no*-thingness. There is no-thingness about me. I am always changing. There is nothing determinant about my subjectivity.



Prabhupāda: If you are changing, I am changing, then the changing is existence. But I am different from that existence because I am changing. I am changing. Suppose I have just now changed my dress. So I am the same. Actually, I am existing the same, but I am changing different dress or different body. So this changing is not very important because it will be changed. I am important. I am changing.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there are two types of being. There is "being in itself," like this table, which is solid, massive, and then he's saying it doesn't have..., it has a phenomenal...



*Prabhupāda: So that we say*-the one is matter, another is spirit.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says "being in itself" and "being for itself." "Being for itself" means the living entity, because by choosing things he does things for himself; he makes decisions and creates things for himself.



Prabhupāda: That we admit. Therefore, the living being who decides to change or to accept something, he is important. Actually, he is existing, whereas the bodily changes or circumstantial changes, that is temporary. But the person who is changing, he is eternal.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that because a man or a living entity has no "thingness," no solid mass, he is always changing one thing to another.



Prabhupāda: Solid... We should not be misled simply by a solid mass. The principle which is changing, it may not be a very big solid mass, but it is the active principle which is changing. It doesn't matter it is not like a big hill or mountain, but that is the active principle which is changing.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that this no*-thingness, nothingness...



Prabhupāda: This is not nothing. This is substance. He cannot say nothingness. He has no eyes to see. The principle which is changing, that is important. He cannot say it is nothing.



Śyāmasundara: But it doesn't have qualities of being a thing, of mass...



Prabhupāda: No. The idea... Actually he has the quality of becoming massive. The same thing we can... Just like the active principle which develops the body within the womb. He may not accept it as soul or something, but without that active principle, simply cohabit of the male and female and combination of secretion does not develop the body. The active principle must be there. So as soon as the active principle is there, the combination of male and female secretion acts, and it develops into body, mass body. You can develop into an ant or you can develop into a big hill. That is the difference. Just like a seed, a small seed, that is active principle. So from that seed a big tree develops. So this existence of the big tree depends on that small seed. That is the active principle. Why it is nothing? That is nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: Because it's one thing now, and then it will change.



Prabhupāda: It will change. That's all right. I am here, I may be next moment down. But I am the same, either here or down, and therefore I am important, and the active principle is important. The changing existence has no importance. At one time the external feature of the active principle may be a mountain, and next, the external feature of the active principle may be a small ant, but the active principle which is becoming sometimes mountain life and the ant life, that is important.



Śyāmasundara: So he is seeing the external features and he is saying...



*Prabhupāda: Therefore he is imperfect. He has no perfect vision. His philosophy is not very sound. He can be classified, according to Bhāgavata, bahir*-artha-māninaḥ: one who gives importance to the external features; one who has no eyes to see the internal potency.



Śyāmasundara: So because the living entity is so much changing that he doesn't have any one thingness, therefore, he says the living entity is nothingness.



Prabhupāda: No. He has his identity, but in the present circumstances, because he is conditioned by the matter, therefore he is changing, and when he becomes free from the condition, he will have no change.



Śyāmasundara: Is he in fact a thing?



Prabhupāda: Certainly. Otherwise how it is changing? Unless we have got some basic principle, how we can account for the change, on which platform the change is taking place?



Śyāmasundara: So the nature of a living being is that he is actually a thing.



Prabhupāda: He is the actual thing. The changing feature is not actual, because it is changing. But the principle on which the change is taking place, he is actual fact, so he cannot be nothing. These imperfect philosophers, they have no eyes to see. They have no eyes to see, and they are not very intelligent; therefore they conclude like that.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the structure of man's essence, his consciousness, is freedom. He is continually free to change as he chooses.



Prabhupāda: As soon as you say freedom, it is freedom of some living being. Matter has no freedom. So as soon as you speak of freedom, that freedom must be a living being. A huge mountain, dead mountain, or any dead body, it has no freedom. It is lying down. You keep it with some chemical process and the body will remain lying down, just like the Egyptian mummies, there are so many. So it has lost its freedom because the active principle is not there. As soon as you say of freedom, the freedom is only applicable to a living being, not to the matter. Matter has no freedom.



Śyāmasundara: He says that matter is something and that the living being is nothing.



Prabhupāda: No. That is his nonsense. He has no perfect knowledge. If matter is something and the basic principle on which the matter stands, it is nothing, that is the most imperfect statement. These are all nonsense philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we are condemned to be free.



Prabhupāda: Who has condemned you? (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: He denies the existence of God.



Prabhupāda: Then who has condemned you? As soon as you say you are condemned, there must be somebody who has condemned you.



Śyāmasundara: He says it's an accident.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. By accident somebody is condemned and somebody is blessed. This is all nonsense. By accident somebody is put into jail and by accident somebody is hanged? Is there any experience like that? That is a judgment. When a man is condemned, that means it is done by some living judgment. So how is this accident? These are all imperfect knowledge, misleading. There is nothing an accident.



Śyāmasundara: He says that all living entities are condemned to be free, everything.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we can admit. Anyone who is in this material world, he is condemned. But the next question will be, if one is condemned, then he can be blessed also. The other side of condemnation is blessing. So what is the blessing side? Has he got any knowledge of the blessing side? Then he is imperfect. As soon as you say condemned, there must be blessing. So he does not know what is the blessing side. That he takes as nothing. That is nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we cannot escape this situation of freedom, that somehow or other we are therefore responsible for our activities. We cannot escape the situation of being free. Everyone is free to determine what is his future.



Prabhupāda: Then why do you speak of accident? If you are irresponsible, then why do you say accident? The two things cannot go. If he was responsible, he must be responsible to something else, who is condemning you or blessing you. How it can be accident? These are contradictions.



Śyāmasundara: This situation that we find ourselves in, choosing our future, everyone has to choose his future, what is the next step...



Prabhupāda: Then why do you say accident? First of all you withdraw the word accident, then you can talk all this.



Śyāmasundara: There are certain events that we cannot control. They simply happen to us.



Prabhupāda: Cannot control, that can be accepted. But it is supposed that we have controlling power. Nothing is accident. Sometimes, when you are miscontrolling, that is accident. But actually that is not accident; that is your miscontrol, not accident. The reason is miscontrol.



Śyāmasundara: Ah, miscontrol.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are responsible, as soon as you act irresponsibly something happens which you take as accident. It is miscontrol. It is not accident. The same thing, just like I am shaving with control, and as soon as I am inattentive, it may cut my cheek. But it is not accident. It is due to my inattention. Nothing is accident. I am responsible for shaving, but as soon as I become inattentive, my cheek is cut. That is not accident. That is due to my inattention. So there is nothing like accident.



Śyāmasundara: Even if I open the front door and something hits me on the head, falling on the head.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Inattention. We should be always very attentive. Therefore the military laws, first they say, "Attention!" As soon as there is no attention, you meet with so many so*-called accidents.



Śyāmasundara: He says that man's nature is an indefinite state of freedom. There is no definite nature that a man has, that it is continually created as he...



Prabhupāda: That means he is eternal. He has to accept it that he is eternal.



Śyāmasundara: Because he has no definite nature?



Prabhupāda: No. Indefinite. What is that indefinite?



Śyāmasundara: That means he is constantly changing. Just like tomorrow my body will be slightly different, my mind may change, I may decide...



Prabhupāda: No. Change, but that changing is taking place under certain regulations, not that by accident. Just like if I become educated, then I get a change in my position, a very nice post, but this is not accident. Because I am educated, I am getting a nice post. And because I am not educated, so I am getting another post.



Śyāmasundara: Just like moods. For instance, today I may be happy, tomorrow I may be unhappy. So I'm not definite. There is no definite nature that I have.



Prabhupāda: That can be admitted to some extent, that it has not cause. Just like if you are put into the sea, so there you have no control and you are moving according to the waves. That means you have controlling power, but you are put in a certain condition where you lose your controlling power. So it is to be admitted that you are in an awkward position; therefore you cannot ascertain what change is going to take place next. That means you are not in a good situation. Just like a man, when he is on the land, he has got control. If a car is coming, he can take care. He can save from the accident. But when he is put into the ocean, the waves are floating him. So it is circumstantial, not accidental.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, circumstantial but not accidental.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you put yourself in better circumstances, then this uncontrolling feature will not be there. He cannot control himself. Everything is accident for him, because he is mad. But if he is cured to a sane man, there is no question of accident.



Śyāmasundara: Supposing today I am happy and my tomorrow is completely within my hands to choose.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are under different conditions. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. You have put yourself under the control of material nature; therefore, according to the modes of the material nature, your position is there. You cannot... When you shall be happy or unhappy, you cannot control.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that we have the freedom to control it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You have the freedom, but your freedom is now choked up, being conditioned. Just like you have freedom to move, but if you are thrown into the ocean, your freedom is choked up. Therefore your duty is how to get yourself released from the condition where your freedom is choked up.



Śyāmasundara: Ah, I see. This is one reason why he says that we are nothing, because...



Prabhupāda: Because he cannot explain, he has no such knowledge; therefore it is very easy to say nothing.



Śyāmasundara: Because today we are one thing, tomorrow we are another thing. So therefore we are nothing.



Prabhupāda: Nothing, of course, nothing in this sense, that you are under the full control of a superior power, carried away by the waves. The ocean is a superior power, and if you put yourself under the superior power, you are carried away by the waves. Therefore you say "I am nothing." But you are something. Your something will be very much exhibited when you are put on the land. So this nothingness conclusion is out of despair.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That's his whole philosophy.



Prabhupāda: It is out of despair. So that is not intelligence. That is not intelligence.



Śyāmasundara: Intelligence doesn't come from despair.



Prabhupāda: No.



Śyāmasundara: He says that a man chooses himself. He creates his own nature.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. That we admit. He creates his nature. So now you have created your nature as nothing, but you can create your nature as something. But a poor fund of knowledge cannot do that. Therefore he has to take lessons from a higher personality. Before philosophizing, he should have taken some lessons from persons who are in the knowledge. That is the Vedic injunction: tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In order to learn that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master.



Śyāmasundara: He says that our essence, or our nature, is always in the making. It is continually becoming...



Prabhupāda: It is not in the making. It is changing. He is thinking it is making. But in the sense making, it can be taken, when he comes to his senses, that "I don't want change. Why the change is taking place?" So when this inquiry comes to him, and if he inquires, "What is the reason of this changing although I do not want?" that is the point where making takes place.



Śyāmasundara: Then he is able to really mold his nature.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But he is dismissing. Being confused and disappointed, he is dismissing the whole case, that "There is nothing. Make it zero." That is poor fund of knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: He says that as we make our life continually, but it all ends at death. Everything is finished.



Prabhupāda: Death means change, another body. But the active principle on which the body is standing, he does not die. The changing is accepted as death, changing. Just like I am in this apartment; I change this apartment, I go three miles away. So that does not mean I am dead. Similarly, the active principle which is changing when he takes another, because he cannot see where he has gone, we say it is death. But a sane man who knows that "Although I cannot see him, he must have taken another apartment..." That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says, "Once I have the thought that I am free, and that my choices will cause changes in the world, therefore I become overwhelmed with the responsibility, and I become full of anguish and anxiety."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: This, he says, is the modern man's condition of existence, that he is overwhelmed with the anxiety of having to choose.



Prabhupāda: That means he is in an awkward position. He wants to be in a peaceful position, but he does not know how to get that position. So because he does not know, that does not mean that there is no peaceful position. Suppose some... It is something like that, that a man in the market, he has been cheated simply by counterfeit currency. He is disappointed that there is no real money. But actually that is not a fact. The government is there, and the currency is there, the real currency.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that once I understand that whatever I choose, I have to be responsible for that, then I become full of anxiety because I am always thinking I have to choose right in order to enjoy something. If I choose wrongly, I must suffer. I am responsible both ways. So he says this feeling of responsibility makes me always dreading and anxious about the future.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The responsibility is there, certainly, but why you do not take the responsibility of transferring yourself in a safety place where you will have no anxiety? It may be you do not know where is a safety place. But why don't you ask somebody who knows it? Why you are becoming disappointed? As you say that we have got responsibility, why, as a responsible man, so search out somebody who can say you about the safety place where there is no anxiety. We can give. That is called Vaikuṇṭha: no anxiety. Vaikuṇṭha means no anxiety. There is a place.



Śyāmasundara: His claim is that we are tossed into the world and we are abandoned by God; that God is dead.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Abandoned by God does not mean God is dead. You are condemned, that we have admitted, so your condemnation does not mean God is also condemned. God is always, who has condemned you, He is always safe. So He cannot be dead.



Śyāmasundara: He says because we have been abandoned by God, therefore we must rely on ourselves alone.



*Prabhupāda: No. Abandoned by God*-why? God is not partial, that He is accepting somebody and abandoning somebody. You have done something for which you are abandoned. So if you rectify your position, you will be accepted again. (aside as someone enters:) Yes?



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that because we have to choose for ourselves, everything is in our hands. That for instance we can become in a situation either a coward or a hero. This is in our hands, some situation that we must confront.



Prabhupāda: Then what you can do? If you say that you are being tossed by some superior power, how you can become a hero? If you become a hero, then you will be more kicked, because you are under superior power. Therefore a man who is culprit, he is under police custody, so if he becomes hero he will be simply beaten and punished, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: I remember one example he gave was that supposing there is wartime, and you are called upon to go to war. He said it wouldn't matter if you went or didn't go. If you went, then you must choose to be a hero; you must fight very bravely, and not a coward. But if you don't go, then you must choose to be a hero to resist the war. You must choose to be a hero resisting the war. One way or the other, you have to choose to be a hero and not a coward.



Prabhupāda: Coward... You are neither coward nor hero. You are simply an instrument. You are... Just like a child plays with a doll. A doll is placed sometimes on this side, that side, sometimes so, sometimes on his breast. So you are just like a doll. You can neither become hero nor become coward. You are completely under the control of somebody who is superior.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose someone is attacking you, ready to kill you. You have the power to choose whether to be a hero and defend or whether to run.



Prabhupāda: It is not hero to defend. It is a natural action. Even a dog can become hero when he is attacked by somebody. Even an ant can become hero. One ant is walking on the table, so if you check his way, he also becomes hero. So there is no use of becoming hero like that. That heroism and cowardice are the same. It is simply mental concoction. Because after, all you are under the control of somebody. He can do as he likes with you. So what is the use of your becoming hero or coward?



Śyāmasundara: Supposing someone else is in danger and you go and rescue them. Isn't that being a hero? Or you decide not to and you go away.



Prabhupāda: But you cannot rescue. You rescue... Just like one man is drowning, and you become hero and jump over the water and take out his shirt and coat, and you come on the shore that "I've saved him." (laughter) This is not saving him. Similarly, you have no eyes to see whom to save. You are simply seeing the dress. So saving the dress, that is not heroism, neither it is protection.



Śyāmasundara: So the real heroes are the devotees, who save actually.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that in any situation you have to be the hero. If you're a businessman you have to valiantly do your business and make a good business, and then you are a hero.



Prabhupāda: So a real hero, one can be, when he is fully empowered or he is fully protected. So that hero is a devotee, who is fully protected by Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Sometimes when they portray heroes in different ways...



Prabhupāda: That kind of hero you find in the insect also, that very heroically following on the path: "Put, put, put, put." That is foolishness.



Śyāmasundara: It always appears that the hero is protected, that nothing can stop him. He is so heroic nothing can stop him.



Prabhupāda: That heroism is just like insect heroism. There is blazing fire, and all kinds of ants and insects are falling in. So what is the use of such heroism? He has no sound knowledge. He is talking speculation. [break]



(next meeting)



*Śyāmasundara: Yesterday we were discussing Jean-Paul Sartre. His point was that man finds himself responsible for his own actions*-not only individually, but he finds that the world is in his own choosing so that he has a social responsibility as well.



Prabhupāda: As soon as we speak of responsibility, there is no question of chance. We cannot say sometimes by chance, sometimes by responsi... Where is the question of chance, if there is responsibility?



Śyāmasundara: He says that by making decisions and choosing this or that, that one becomes responsible for his actions. But ultimately it doesn't really matter what he chooses. The choosing is the important thing.



Prabhupāda: That is whimsical. And still he is responsible.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Whatever I choose, I must be responsible for it. But it doesn't matter so much what...



Prabhupāda: But if the beginning is irresponsibility, then where is the question of responsibility? This is nonsense philosophy. If the beginning is irresponsibility... Just like there is a story, some thieves stolen some gold, and there were many, four, five thieves, so they were dividing the stolen property, and one them said, "Now let us divide it honestly." (laughter) The whole thing is stolen property, and they are speaking of honesty. Just like you Americans, you came from Europe and other countries, and you have stolen the property. Now you make immigration, "You cannot come, you cannot come." It is like this philosophy. The whole thing is stolen property, and they are talking of honesty; they are citing scripture. So where is the responsibility, if the beginning is irresponsibility, chance?



Śyāmasundara: One of his examples, I remember, is there is a war, so I have to choose whether to fight in the war for my country or resist the war as unethical. His idea is it doesn't matter. Whatever you choose, you must be a hero or do it very responsibly, either resist war or fight in war. But it doesn't matter ultimately which side you choose.



Prabhupāda: That means if you go to hell you must go like a hero.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. (laughs)



Prabhupāda: Just like one man was fighting with another man, and he could not fight, he was going away, going away. The other man challenged, "Why are you going away?" So, "Why not shall I go away? Am I afraid of you? Why should I not go away? Am I afraid of you?" He is going away, he is defeated, still he said that "Why shall I not go? Am I afraid of you?" So this is childish philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: He says that because I have freedom to choose, that makes me susceptible to bad faith, to a condition which he calls bad faith, irresponsibility.



*Prabhupāda: You have freedom of choice*-that's nice-but if you do not make your choice nicely, then you have to suffer. That is responsibility.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that because we have freedom, this makes us tend to be irresponsible, to shy away from taking responsibility.



Prabhupāda: No. Responsibility is there, and still freedom is there. Just like ordinarily, in our dealing, out of responsibility the direction is "Stick to the right." Or there is a red light, "Stop." So if I do not care about the red light, then I become criminal. That is responsibility. You have responsibility, but at the same time you have got the discrimination. Without discrimination there cannot be any responsibility. So responsibility is not blind. That means you should discriminate. You should know what is right and wrong. That is responsibility. If we do wrongly, then we will have to suffer. That is responsibility.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But his idea is that because we are free, we tend to avoid responsibility.



Prabhupāda: That is freedom, that you can make your choice between right and wrong. That is freedom. Freedom does not mean you are dull.



Śyāmasundara: But what if you avoid even choosing right or wrong, you simply drift without any decision of right or wrong?



Prabhupāda: No. That is irresponsibility.



Śyāmasundara: That's what he is saying, that because we are free, we are susceptible.



Prabhupāda: We are free means you have to make your choice between right and wrong. That is freedom.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But his idea is that because we are free, sometimes we neglect to even choose between right and wrong.



Prabhupāda: That is wrong decision. Then you should suffer. That is responsibility. Why you have done wrong?



Devotee: That is choice.



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Devotee: He is not recognizing that that is a choice. You could not choose that way unless you had this freedom.



Śyāmasundara: No. It's not like that. Supposing there is a war, a country goes to war. There is the choice whether to say, to choose whether it is right or wrong, but I avoid the choice altogether. I don't enter into it. Apathetic.



Prabhupāda: No. You cannot avoid the choice. At the present age there is democratic government. When we agree to fight with another, that means you have got your assent. Why should you not fight?



*Śyāmasundara: I haven't made this very clear, but because we have freedom, we become susceptible to bad faith. Bad faith means that we avoid making any decisions at all, good or bad. We simply drift. He calls it drift. We go day to day without entering and becoming involved with any responsible decision*-making.



Prabhupāda: That drift means that is decision. Yes. That is decision. When you drift, that is decision.



Śyāmasundara: People, especially these days, they want to avoid making any kind of decisions, especially hippies.



Prabhupāda: Therefore you must take others' decisions, superiors' decisions.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that this condition...



Prabhupāda: Just like a child cannot make any decision. He should take decision from the parents. That is the position.



Śyāmasundara: Just like these hippies, whenever they wake up, they wake up; whenever they want food, they eat. Like that.



Prabhupāda: So who cares for them? They are reject.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says this is the condition of...



Prabhupāda: Urchins. No. This is the condition of the hippies, not for a gentleman.



Śyāmasundara: He says that because we are free, that we are susceptible to this condition. That's all. But he says that this condition...



Prabhupāda: Free means to make right or wrong decision. That is free. Freedom does not mean dullness or passive.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But because we are free we become susceptible to being dull.



Prabhupāda: Just like a dog. A dog is free. He can go to the right or the wrong side, and nobody cares for it. That is for the dog. But if a human being, if he decides instead of going to the right, to the left, then he is criminal, because he has got responsibility. So either you take dog's philosophy or man's philosophy. Dog's philosophy, he has no decision. He is an animal. He can go this side or that side. But we cannot do that. So whether he is man or dog. If he is a man, he must decide right and wrong. He is responsible. That is a man.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this condition of bad faith must be replaced by solid choosing and faith in our choosing. For instance, if one chooses a certain path of action, that he must have faith that by carrying out this action valiantly, heroically, that he will be doing the right thing.



Prabhupāda: But if his decision is wrong, then what is the use of such heroism?



Śyāmasundara: He says there's no such scale of right and wrong. There is no absolute right and wrong, that everything depends upon how...



Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of responsibility if there is no right and wrong?



Śyāmasundara: Whatever I do, I must do it...



Prabhupāda: Whimsically. Whimsically. Whatever you do, you do it whimsically. Does he mean to say like that?



Śyāmasundara: No. Whatever you do, you do courageously.



Prabhupāda: Courageously... Just like the example I gave, the insect goes very courageously into the fire. Is that a very nice decision, to go forward courageously into the fire? He'll go courageously.



Śyāmasundara: He has another definition of this bad faith, that bad faith means treating oneself as an object instead of a person; that I feel myself like a thing, or an object, instead of a person. This a bad faith.



Prabhupāda: Bad faith means?



Śyāmasundara: Treating myself as an object instead of a person.



Prabhupāda: But you are a person. How can you become an object?



*Śyāmasundara: Because we are susceptible to bad faith, that this condition exists in the world, people are treating each other as objects-"He is black," "He is white," "He is old," "He is rich"*-objects instead of persons. This called bad faith, and he wants to rectify that condition.



Prabhupāda: Then what is good faith? That is also object?



Śyāmasundara: Good faith is dealing with someone else genuinely as a person, despite whatever that person is doing. That doesn't matter so much, what he is doing, but how he is doing it.



Prabhupāda: You have not been clear. What is it?



Śyāmasundara: A person is doing something, it doesn't matter so much what he is doing but how he is doing it, that he is doing it genuinely, with full integrity.



Prabhupāda: Then if a man is stealing, and he is doing it very scientifically, is that all right?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. The existentialists...



Prabhupāda: There are many, many thieves, they know how to go into the bank treasury scientifically. Is that all right?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He is an existential hero, the good thief or the good killer.



Prabhupāda: Then the same hero, just like the insect hero. The same hero. The insect hero very boldly goes to the fire. (laughter) The same. He is no better than an insect, without any knowledge or discrimination.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we treat ourselves as things, as objects, because we are afraid to accept ourselves for being such unsavory characters. In other words, if I look at myself, I do not like what I see, because I am so full of sinful activity, I am such an unsavory character, so therefore I objectify myself. I begin to think that "I am an engineer," "I am a scientist," "I am this," "I am that," so many designations, but I don't see myself as a person because I don't like to see myself.



Prabhupāda: What does he say about this?



Śyāmasundara: So he says that existential psychoanalysis is required. Existential psychoanalysis, he calls it.



*Prabhupāda: Then why does he pose himself as a philosopher? The same thing*-as engineer, as scientist.



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't say "I am a philosopher."



Prabhupāda: Then what does he say?



Śyāmasundara: Other people are saying he is a philosopher.



Prabhupāda: Other... We don't say he's a philosopher. He says. He wants to pose himself as a philosopher; therefore he is talking all this nonsense. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: This existential psychoanalysis is supposed to get down to the root of a man's existence.



Prabhupāda: Has he seen that? Has he gone up to there?



Śyāmasundara: The level that he takes it to is that man is basically a "being for himself."



Prabhupāda: That's all right, that individuality.



*Śyāmasundara: And that his decision*-making power, his freedom to make decisions, is his real essence, his real nature.



Prabhupāda: So he agrees also at the same time, responsibility.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So that means he must have the power to make decisions, right and wrong. That is responsible.



Śyāmasundara: The main thing, though, is that he must abide by his decision. Whatever he chooses, that he must live it.



Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If I decide to steal, it is better to avoid it. Not that because I have to decided to steal, I must do it just like a hero and then go to prison.



Śyāmasundara: For Sartre there is no absolute right and wrong. Some of his main heroes are great thieves and debauchers, like there's one... What is his name?



Prabhupāda: Alexander. Alexander and the robber. There is a story that a robber was arrested by Alexander and there was talk between Alexander and the robber: "You proved that you are big robber, that's all. Why you are going to punish me?" And he was released: "Yes. I'm a big robber. I have no difference between you and me."



Śyāmasundara: So he says that we can remedy the whole situation of bad faith and being an unsavory character and treating myself as an object instead of a person by choosing for myself the person I ought to become.



Prabhupāda: Ideal person.



Śyāmasundara: An ideal person. And become that ideal person.



Prabhupāda: So what is the definition of that ideal person?



Śyāmasundara: Well, in some of his books it would be the very heroic type person who sees things as they are.



Prabhupāda: A big robber is also heroic.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Many of his heroes are robbers and...



Prabhupāda: So these robbers are ideal persons? Big, big thieves.



*Śyāmasundara: In that they portray an integrity, self*-integrity.



Prabhupāda: Then a tiger is also...



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So why do you fight with the tiger? Why you are afraid of tiger?



*Śyāmasundara: His idea of a hero would be someone who meets the tiger face*-to-face and courageously deals with him instead of running away. Whenever the challenge in life is there, the hero is the one who takes it up.



Prabhupāda: That is natural. It may be hero or not hero, it doesn't matter. If somebody comes to attack me, I try to fight with him, trying to save me. So I may not be successful, but that is my natural instinct. So everyone is hero.



Śyāmasundara: No. If a person is free of this bad faith, this...



Prabhupāda: What is bad faith and what is good faith, according to him?



Śyāmasundara: Bad faith is that I avoid decision making. I am avoiding decisions. Avoiding making decisions is bad faith.



Prabhupāda: Avoiding making decisions?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. And treating other people as objects. Good faith is to make decisions courageously and follow them out, whatever those decisions are.



Prabhupāda: So who makes the decisions?



Śyāmasundara: I make the decisions.



Prabhupāda: So if your decision is wrong?



Śyāmasundara: There's no question of right or wrong in that case.



Prabhupāda: Whatever decision I make, that is final, absolute?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: How it is possible? Then the same philosophy comes with the insect's decision. Absolute decision, even if it is wrong, it's all right. That is seen in lower animals also.



Śyāmasundara: One of Sartre's counterparts, one of his colleagues, Albert Camus, he also wrote about this philosophy, and himself he typifies this type of person. He simply died in an automobile accident by driving 130 or -40 miles an hour on a small road.



Prabhupāda: That is insects' philosophy, that's all. This is "I have my decision to run hundred miles an hour, not caring for others." So this is exactly like the insects.



Śyāmasundara: And they say I'm responsible for my actions, but it's a very irresponsible position because it doesn't take into consideration other people, or supposing he would have killed other people too.



Prabhupāda: So that is animal decision. That is not human decision. Human decision that there is signboard, "Speed Limit 35." If he doesn't care, he is not a human being, he is animal. A human being, he will take care, "Why shall I drive 100?"



Śyāmasundara: This philosophy gives rise to so much freedom.



Prabhupāda: This philosophy has given rise to these hippies.



Śyāmasundara: Hippies, yes.



Prabhupāda: So they are without any responsibility. Whatever he likes, he can do. So that is animal. There is no question of human civilization or human beings.



Śyāmasundara: He has an optimistic side to his philosophy in that he says the fate of the world depends upon man's decision. Obviously, if men decide to do things properly, the world would be a better place.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We agree with that. We are trying to do that by introducing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to make the world Vaikuṇṭha. That is our philosophy. Anyone can come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become happy. But that is not a blind decision. We take decision from higher authority; therefore it is perfect. We are taking decision from the ācārya, Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: There is also a pessimistic side to his philosophy in that he says that man is a useless passion, mainly striving in the universe without purpose.



Prabhupāda: That he is, not us. He is that. His is... What is that? Useless?



Śyāmasundara: Useless passion.



Prabhupāda: So he is that. Useless passion... No sane man is useless passion. A sane man is guided by superior. That is Vedic civilization. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One must approach a bona fide spiritual master to guide him. Then he is not useless; then he is full.



Śyāmasundara: But because he doesn't see any purpose in the universe, then he thinks that...



Prabhupāda: That is his blindness. He has no sufficient knowledge; *he has no sufficient seeing power. There is a plan. That is stated in the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad*-gītā, asatyam apratiṣṭham, that the word is there is no truth, there is no creator. These are the decisions of the demons. We don't say. We say janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] the Supreme. Not that everything that we want to try to understand is the truth. That is our philosophy. This philosophy is demon philosophy-there is no plan, there is no truth, everything is happening accidentally. This is demon's philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Because he doesn't see any purpose, that he sees all of our efforts...



Prabhupāda: There is purpose, but because he is foolish, therefore he does not see anything as purpose. There is purpose. Just if like I am hungry, this philosopher says accidentally I am hungry, I eat something. No. I am hungry when there is purpose. My bodily limbs are exhausted, they require energy, so therefore I am hungry, I must take some food. The foodstuff will be converted into energy. There is a plan. It is not blank. Everything is going on by plan. The sun is rising under some plan. The moon is rising under some plan. Seasonal changes under plan. Everything is plan. But those demons, they cannot see. They say, "No, there is no plan here."



Śyāmasundara: They see all activity as in vain. All activity is a useless struggle, a vain struggle.



Prabhupāda: That is for him. Because he is confused and without any direction, he thinks like that.



*Śyāmasundara: So his emphasis is not on the activity itself*-because it's all vain-but how you do it.



*Prabhupāda: We don't say how it is all vain. That I have already explained: everything has got a plan. Just like we are moving this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There is a plan. There is an objective. (indistinct) vainly we are doing that. Nothing is done in that we or you or anyone. There must be some plan. There is a plan. That plan may be right or wrong*-there is a plan.



Śyāmasundara: This is actually the major issue with people, especially today, that is there really any purpose to all my work, or anyone's work, or for anyone's activity? Is there any ultimate meaning or purpose to it?



*Prabhupāda: It's quite clear. Just like if you make a decision to do something criminal, the plan is already there*-you will be arrested and punished. If you make a choice that "I must do it. This is my decision. I must kill that person," you can do that, but there is already a plan that you will be hanged. That is less intelligent. They are not intelligent.



Śyāmasundara: They say that man is nothingness.



Prabhupāda: Why is nothingness? If he is nothingness, why is he speaking so much nonsense?



Śyāmasundara: You said yesterday it was a philosophy of despair.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: That's what they also say.



Prabhupāda: So we are not desperate. We are not followers of despair philosophy. We are hopeful philosophy. We are going back to home, back to Godhead...



Śyāmasundara: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: ...to live eternally blissful life.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we are alone in the world but we can be a "being for others."



Prabhupāda: Why he was alone? Why he would become being for others? He remained alone; let them remain alone.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that we require other people for our self*-realization, if we want to understand who I am.



Prabhupāda: That means he requires a guru.



Śyāmasundara: That is what he means.



Prabhupāda: Sometimes he means that it is blind, there is no end, there is no plan, again he wants to have a guru?



Śyāmasundara: He doesn't say guru, but he says other people.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru is also another man.



Śyāmasundara: We interact with other people in order to understand ourselves.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So why not the best man*-guru? If we require other men to understand, then why not take the best man?



Śyāmasundara: He says because there are other people, that in the presence of others we feel ashamed.



Prabhupāda: No. There are many other people, many people, but we have to take help from others, and I must take help from the best man, who knows things.



Śyāmasundara: He has observed that if I am acting in bad faith, that I will be ashamed in the presence of others.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you should take advice from a man who can give you right direction, so at the end you may not be ashamed; you may be glorious. That is the injunction of the *Vedas*: tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In order to be conversant with that science, transcendental science, one must approach a bona fide guru.



Śyāmasundara: His being ashamed before others...



Prabhupāda: Yes. You will be ashamed. If you are not guided by a superior man, you'll be ashamed. But if you are guided by a proper man you won't be ashamed; you'll be glorious.



Śyāmasundara: He says that if a man considers himself as an object, he is afraid to look inside himself, then he will also consider other people as objects. And that is the cause of the basic sickness of the world, that we treat each other as objects instead as persons.



Prabhupāda: That is a wrong conception. Everybody is a person.



Śyāmasundara: What is your remedy for seeing everyone as persons?



Prabhupāda: That is the real vision: everyone is person.



Śyāmasundara: What is the remedy, what is the cure, for seeing everyone as a person?



Prabhupāda: You see or not see, everyone is a person. So what does it mean?



Śyāmasundara: Supposing I want to observe everyone in their personal manifestation, I want to see everyone as a person.



Prabhupāda: You are not seeing everyone as a person?



*Śyāmasundara: Now I am seeing everyone as an object-"He is black," "He is American," "He is white"*-but I want to see everyone as a person.



Prabhupāda: That means discrimination. Every individual person has got discrimination. That is discrimination. That is discriminating "This is good," "This is bad," "This is black," "This is white." Duality. So he has got this discriminating power.



Śyāmasundara: But I want to see everyone as a person, not as an object. So how do I do that?



Prabhupāda: Because he is person, therefore he is discriminating.



Śyāmasundara: But how do I perceive someone as a person? How do I do it?



Prabhupāda: Because he has got discriminating power.



Śyāmasundara: What is the method for doing it? What is the method of seeing someone as a person?



Prabhupāda: There is no method. It is directly perceived. As soon as I see you, you have got individuality.



Śyāmasundara: But I don't see your individuality. I see you as an object.



Prabhupāda: Why do you see like that?



Śyāmasundara: I want to know how I can see you as a person. What is the cure? What is the remedy? What is the solution?



Prabhupāda: I don't follow what you are saying. Everyone is seeing. I am seeing you as a person, you are seeing me as a person.



Śyāmasundara: No. I am seeing someone as an object.



Devotee: How can we change our consciousness?



Śyāmasundara: No. I didn't say that. I want to know how I see someone as a person and not as an object. How do I do that? What is... You say that you can tell me how to see someone as a person.



Prabhupāda: Because whomever you see, he has got some individual propensity. Anyone you see, he has got some individual propensity. Therefore he is a person.



Śyāmasundara: So by observing someone's individual propensity, then I can see him as a person?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: I see. Instead of just seeing black, white, this or that, I look for individual propensities, so I appreciate those individual propensities?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Appreciate or not appreciate, it is there.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the fundamental project of man is his desire to be.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he is eternal. Because he is eternal, he has got that desire to be. Unfortunately, he is put under certain conditions that he cannot keep himself eternal. That is his problem. That problem we have solved*-how to remain or to keep myself eternal. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that this desire to be makes us seek after "thingness," solidity, density. I want to become like this table, because it is something that exists*-stable-but because my nature is unstable, that I am always seeking after "thingness," but my real nature is "no-thingness."



Prabhupāda: The table also will not exist. Just like if I see that a tree is existing ten thousand years and I do not exist one hundred years, that does not mean the tree will exist. It will be finished after one thousand years. Because I do not see the duration of time, of its existence, I think that it will go. Similarly, I am thinking the table is existing. Table also will not exist. That is my deficiency in seeing power. Nothing will exist.



Śyāmasundara: Still this does not prevent me from wanting something solid, something dense, some situation of permanency.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That situation is spiritual world. That we are giving information, because everyone is seeking after that, but they do not know where it is. We are giving that information here, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20], in the Bhagavad*-gītā. "There is another nature which is permanent, sanātana. Even after the annihilation of this whole universe it will exist." That information we are giving.



Śyāmasundara: He says that in this unity of myself, the subject, that I desire objectivity, and he says this union of subject and object is called the "being in itself," or God; that man is desiring to be God or "being in himself."



Prabhupāda: This is the position more or less of Māyāvādī philosophy, that when I am completely in knowledge, I become God. It is like that.



Śyāmasundara: He says this is man's fundamental orientation, that he wants to become God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we confirm in this way, that because he is part and parcel of God, so he wants to be united with God. Because he is now detached from God, so therefore, just like a man who is for long, long years out of home, so he wants to go home again.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this desire to be God is bound to fail.



*Prabhupāda: Because he is not God. If he is God at all, then how will he fail to become non*-God?



Śyāmasundara: What was that?



*Prabhupāda: He is desiring to be God, that means he is not God at the present moment. So if he is God, how did he become non-God? Therefore he cannot become God, but he can become godly. That is our philosophy. Just like I am in darkness, I want light, so I can come into the sunshine. That does not mean I become sun. But when I come to the sunshine, I come to the light. Similarly, when you come to perfect knowledge, that is godly. But you cannot become God. If you are God, then there is no question of becoming non-God. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Acyuta. Acyuta means He never becomes non-God. He is God always. When He is three months old on the lap of His mother He is God. When He is seven years old, lifting the hill, He is God. And when He is marrying 16,000 wives He is God. When He is dancing with the gopīs He is God. That is God. God is always God. Not that I am non*-God now and I shall become God by some means, mystic factory. No.



Śyāmasundara: I'll just read a quote from one of his books. He says, "To be a man means to reach towards being God; or if you prefer, man, fundamentally, is the desire to be God. Every human reality is a passion in that it projects losing itself so as to found being, and by the same stroke to constitute the..."



Prabhupāda: To desire to become God, that is also passion, because he cannot become God. This is simply passion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the human being has the capacity to give up or sacrifice something in order to reach for something higher.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called tapasya, austerity.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we have the ability to lose ourselves to find ourselves, to lose something in order to find something else.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our process. To find ourself, in our real position, we give up so many material enjoyments. Just like a diseased man is ordered by the doctor, "Do not do this." So he is sacrificing those things, "do not's," accepting "do not's," to become cured from the disease.



Śyāmasundara: This is why he calls man a useless passion, because he says in the passion of losing himself or giving up something he will never really find anything else, so that it's a useless passion to give up these things.



*Prabhupāda: No. That is his case. But this is the process, to find out, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59], to find out the best, I give up something worse. Just like we are teaching our students to give up these habits, so they are giving up, with the aim to get a better thing*-Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: He said in the act of giving up, you don't find anything any better.



Prabhupāda: No. He does not find because he is blind, but we find. We take vision from superior person. So our vision is not blind.



Śyāmasundara: He says that we are trying to find the state of escaping contingency, or we are trying to reach an absolute state where we are not conditioned by anything. This is what we are striving for. But we will never be able to find that state.



Prabhupāda: If we are not conditioned, then how are we trying to reach the absolute state?



Śyāmasundara: He says that we are conditioned, but we are trying to be unconditioned. But we can never reach that state.



Prabhupāda: No. That is his hopelessness. That is not our (indistinct). We are giving up something paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. We are giving something for getting higher position, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this is an impossible project, to become absolute.



Prabhupāda: Not absolute, but to be the right relationship. Just like I am existing now, but not in right relationship. I am trying to exist as the Lord or master. But when I live as servant, that is my right relationship. I am trying to exist as the Lord or master, but when I live as a servant, that is my right relationship.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that we all want to become God. That is hopeless.



*Prabhupāda: No. That is hopeless. That you cannot. That is wrong. We cannot become God. The only answer is that how we can become God? If you are God, then how did you become non-God? God cannot become non*-God at any stage.



Śyāmasundara: I think he looks at it that we are not God. We know we are not God, but we are trying to become God.



Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvādī philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: But he says it's impossible to become God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice. That is our philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: But because it is impossible to become God, that means everything else is useless.



Prabhupāda: No. That is another foolishness. You are not God; you are God's servant. Now you are posing to be God. So give up this idea and become servant. That is right idea. You are actually servant of God, but you are posing yourself as master. So you give up this wrong idea and become servant of God, then you are happy.



Śyāmasundara: So that's all... [break]



*Devotee: That faith is not to choose, but that is a choice, as Kṛṣṇa explains in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that there is action and inaction, and one who can see action in so-called inaction, he is intelligent. He is in that category of unintelligent people. They take this form of inaction as being inaction. And so he is thinking this so-called drifting as no choice; it is simply a way to make a choice very easily. You are choosing to go down the river with the current. It's choosing to remain in animal life.



Śyāmasundara: To be controlled completely by external forces.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: They are surrendering to the material nature.



Prabhupāda: Vikti mamate (?).



Śyāmasundara: This is the whole hippie philosophy.



Devotee: They are making a choice, but the wrong choice.



*Śyāmasundara: But he says you shouldn't be like this. Sartre says you shouldn't be like this*-this drifting.



Devotee: Right. It makes no difference what you choose.



Śyāmasundara: But you have to do it strongly.



*Devotee: No. Just point out they are making a choice. The point is, they are making the wrong choice. Therefore you have to make the right choice. It does make a difference. His philosophy is that it doesn't make any difference what you choose-not even admitting that it does make a difference*-you simply have to carry it out that you know what is the right way by the instructions of superior authority.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. We see it like that, but he sees it that it doesn't matter what you choose as long as you make a conscious choice.



Devotee: Then why not just choose to go along consciously?



Śyāmasundara: Because that's bad faith. That's not engaging myself with the world at large.



Devotee: All the other choices are simply illusion.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. It will only be illusory to somebody who sees things like that. But for him, at least there is a situation encountered-he calls that an encounter-then either I can walk away from the situation-which is one way of making a bad choice, but he calls it bad faith*-or in good faith I can face the situation and choose to go this way or that way.



Devotee: The philosophy seems contradictory. If you walk away, still you are going to face another situation.



*Śyāmasundara: Yes. But that's a situation of bad faith*-that I'm not facing; I'm not encountering. His hero, Sartre's hero, is someone who courageously faces the situation and chooses one way or the other. It really doesn't matter, because ultimately all of man's trying is in vain. What matters is that how you do it.



Devotee: Why not courageously drift? You see, that's what I think Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying. If you look, he is arbitrarily making some value judgment, but actually he is...



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Actually we do that. We courageously drift, just like Camus drifted right into a telephone pole.



Devotee: That is our point, that that is the same courageousness of the jñānī.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Into the fire, insect philosophy.



Devotee: He still must establish values, even if whimsically.



Śyāmasundara: His only value is that he encourages you to do something, just like one of his heroes is.



Devotee: Why not take that trait that is so admirable, that courage, and put it into a right decision? That's our philosophy. Our philosophy is not that we should not be determined...



Śyāmasundara: Our philosophy is based first of all that there is a purpose in the universe. If to begin with, his thesis is that there's no purpose in the universe, then he can't say anything is right or wrong.



Devotee: Then what is the point of any philosophy? If there's no purpose, why should I read his philosophy? His philosophy also is meaningless.



Prabhupāda: Just to say there is no purpose?



Śyāmasundara: No. There is only existence. There is no essence.



Devotee: Then why write?



Śyāmasundara: Because it's something to do. Just like I courageously choose to write, that's all, so I must do it.



Devotee: What is...



Śyāmasundara: Ultimately yes. Even Prabhupāda stated this, too.



*Prabhupāda: It is rat philosophy. He has something to do*-cut everything into pieces.



Devotee: What is that?



Prabhupāda: Something to do. I have to do something. He is cutting a book into pieces.



*Śyāmasundara: Jean-Paul Genet was one of his heroes*-a sadist, a homosexual, a criminal. He thought very highly of him, because he said at least he has chosen something he is doing very courageously. So he got him released from jail. Now he has chosen to become a Communist, Sartre. So... [break] He is very much trouble with the government. They want to arrest him, but he is too famous. His life is (indistinct).



Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the actual cause of shame?



Prabhupāda: Higher consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: If I am ashamed to take my clothes off in public, why is that?



Prabhupāda: Higher consciousness. The dog has no such thing; therefore this consciousness is not developed.



Devotee: He says something about..., "You have it resolved in your mind and you don't carry it through."



Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda gave an example: if I decide to rob a bank and I don't rob the bank and I... [break]



Prabhupāda: What is next?



Śyāmasundara: Next we'll go back to Fichte, a German philosopher, then Hegel, Schopenhauer. (end)





RUSSELL.SYA



Bertrand Russell



Śyāmasundara: So this morning's philosopher is called Bertrand Russell. As we enter into this twentieth century, the philosophies become more and more complicated, more and more abstract. So it may be a little difficult to try to understand some of his ideas, but we can try.



Prabhupāda: Philosophy does not become complicated; *the mode of living becoming complicated*-from simplicity to complication. Otherwise everything is there. Just like by nature's law, the sunrise is not complicated. It is the same process (indistinct). So we are making complicated things underneath the sun. So if we know what is life, then there is no complication. But they do not know. Especially the modern education, they are making things more and more complicated. Therefore the so-called philosophy is becoming complicated.



Śyāmasundara: Another difficulty with Bertrand Russell is that his philosophy changed. Many times throughout his life he changed his viewpoint.



*Prabhupāda: That means he does not know what is philosophy. Philosophy cannot be changed. Just like āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam*-the four principles of life-eating, sleeping, mating... (aside:) Sit down here.



Devotee: I was watching the (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: All right. So they are eating*-where is the change of philosophy? Eating philosophy is there. Sleeping philosophy is there. Why it should change? What is fact, there is no need of changing. Imperfect knowledge changes. Perfect knowledge never changes. So he changes philosophy means his knowledge is imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: He comes in the tradition of the British empiricists, which believes that nothing outside of our senses can give us any knowledge. But still, he was never able to believe that simple mathematical principles like "Two plus equals four" are merely generalizations which we derive from our experience. He says that these things must be eternal principles, such as "Two plus two equals four."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So mathematical calculations, if it is perfect, then it is all right. Just like a child is born: father plus mother equal to child. So this is all right. But if one says that without father, through mother only, child, then how this is mathematical calculation? Whenever there is a child, it is to be understood that there is father and mother. If somebody says "No. Without father, simply mother gives birth to a child," then what kind of calculation is this? Similarly, these so*-called philosophers, they simply think the nature is all-in-all, but that's not the fact. Nature is prakṛti, just like mother. There must be father. But they do not believe in father. So what kind of mathematical calculation? That is not mathematical calculation; *that is concoction. Mathematical calculation-"Two plus two equal to four"-is a fact everywhere. Either you go to Europe or America or anywhere you go, that mathematical calculation-"Two plus two equal to four"*-it can be understood. Similarly, it is very easy to understand that without father, mother cannot give birth to a child. Similarly, this nature, without the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa, she cannot give any birth. But these modern philosophers, scientists, they are struck with wonder simply by observing the natural activities. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Background of these natural activities is I." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. "Under My supervision." Just like prakṛti, woman, the girl, naturally, when she is young, her father's direction, er, when she is child. When she is young, husband's direction. When she is old, elderly children's, son's, direction. In India at least you'll find, woman has no independence. And to remain dependent under father, under husband or elderly boys, that is their happiness. And in Western countries I see they're so-called independent, but (indistinct) the women's are so unhappy. So mathematical calculation means you should take the natural sequence, no artificial introduction. That will not make us happy.



Śyāmasundara: If you'll remember, some of the philosophers we have discussed, they believe that unless the world is perceived, it does not exist. But Bertrand Russell thought that the world was real in itself. Even though we do not perceive it, it still exists.



*Prabhupāda: That, that (indistinct). World exists, whether we perceive or not perceive. It doesn't matter. So many things we do not perceive. Just like the child, he sees the electric fan is moving, but he does not perceive where is electricity power, or the powerhouse. So because the child does not perceive the powerhouse and electricity, it does not mean that there is no electricity or no powerhouse. It is the childish fault that one must think like that, that without electricity, without powerhouse, the fan is moving. That is childish. The so*-called perception or no perception is simply childish.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the existence of the real world beyond sense data cannot be proved.



*Prabhupāda: Such a nonsense cannot perceive. Therefore we have to go to a person who knows. I may be fool, rascal, so I cannot perceive, but that does not mean things are there as the fools and rascals perceive. Our process is, therefore, Vedic process*-tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In order to be really learned, wise, one must go to a guru. Gurum eva abhigacchet. Must. This abhigacchet word means "must." There is no alternative. He cannot know things as they are without approaching guru. That is our Vedic system. And guru means one who knows the Vedas, and one who is firmly fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is guru.



Śyāmasundara: But how does someone prove that something exists beyond his..., beyond our senses?



*Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. Just like child does not know. He simply sees the fan is running*-superficially. But he does not know that there is electricity power, and there is a powerhouse. So that is lack of knowledge. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births, one comes to the real knowledge, and that is vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Then he knows that Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is the original (indistinct). It is a question of knowing, and knowing through the direct current via media-guru. Otherwise he remains in darkness. Therefore guru-namastaya. Ajñāna timirāndasya. Everyone is blind by the darkness of ignorance. Jñānāñjana śalākayā. And the guru's business is to lighten ignorance, the śalāka. What is called, śalāka?



Devotee: Lamp.



Śyāmasundara: Torch.



Prabhupāda: Torch. Yes. Torchlight. The torchlight. Guru gives the torchlight, jñānāñjana śalākayā. What is that torchlight? By awakening his dormant knowledge. That is torch. Then he can see what is world.



Śyāmasundara: So the proof that one accepts for something which is beyond our sense is not necessarily scientific?



Prabhupāda: Not at all. What to speak of scientific, it is completely ignorant. There is no question of science. It is simply darkness.



Śyāmasundara: No. I mean the proof..., if one accepts the proof of the guru's authority...



*Prabhupāda: That is the proof. He gives there. Guru*-the next line says who is guru: śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭam. He has heard the truth from the paramparā system, and the result of his hearing-he's firmly convinced and fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So when one can finally see that one is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and he answers all questions on the authority of śāstra, he's guru. This is the proof of it(?). Just like we, whenever we say something, we immediately support it by quoting from Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata, Vedas. This is called knowledge. And the result of knowledge-fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, firm. Nobody can deviate. That is guru. Two sides: one side is that he knows everything from authoritative source. And he, as the result, is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. These two things are the symptoms of guru.



Śyāmasundara: This Bertrand Russell says that the world consists of a number of simple facts, each independent of all the others yet related externally to each other.



Prabhupāda: What are those facts?



Śyāmasundara: Well, everything that we see and perceive is individually separate, atomic, he calls it. So that the world consists of millions, of billions, numberless simple facts. They're externally related, but they're still independent of each other.



Prabhupāda: Yes. They're not independent; they are dependent. Who makes that separate? How do I separate them? There is no answer for that. They see simply that things are separate, but how they are separated, wherefrom they have come? That means superficial observation. But our Vedic process is to find out the original source. That is factual knowledge. We can, just like (indistinct) because you are scientist, that if we are talking not according to the scientific facts, it is counter to the facts, then, you are modern scientist, so if you find that there is something we are talking which does not corroborate with the scientific statement, you can point out.



*Śyāmasundara: Just like when we were discussing Hegel, Hegel's belief was everything was synthetic, that it..., for every thesis there was an antithesis, and each combining made a synthesis, so that all things were related and all things combined together were the world. But his idea is the opposite*-that everything is separated, everything is individual.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Separated, but there is sympathy. It is not separated abrupt. There is sympathy. Just like here, all our students, they are individual, separately, but there is (indistinct) sympathy, that every one of you are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is sympathy. Even though you are all separated, you have got your individual opinions, still there is a sympathy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise what is the use of this assembly unless there is sympathy? (aside:) What you say, Dr. Rao?



Dr. Rao: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: What your science says?



Dr. Rao: Science says that matter is composed of atoms; atoms, in turn, they are composed of the smaller particles like electrons, protons, neutrons and so on. And now scientists, they have found out that these smaller particles, they are also composed of still smaller particles. So there is no end to it. I mean...



Prabhupāda: Then what about the bigger? So what is smaller, but then what about the bigger? (laughter)



Dr. Rao: It doesn't mention. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Dr. Rao: God is greater than the greatest and smaller than the smallest. So for the scientist it is very difficult to find an end, which is the smallest particle. That is what it is coming out every day.



Prabhupāda: Well, that means they could not reach to the ultimate goal of knowledge.



*Dr. Rao: Not only that, but the scientists, really, they are changing like anything. Einstein developed the theory, and that theory was thought to be superior to that developed by Newton. Now another theory has been developed which is being thought to be superior than that of Einstein. So these things are only relative. The real scientist can see that all these things are relative. Everything is changing. Our conception of life*-somebody says that sun is moving; somebody says earth is moving. But (indistinct) calculation you find that eclipse, lunar or..., (indistinct), it does not not matter which thing is moving and which thing is not moving. It is so complicated.



Prabhupāda: And the complicated things are so nicely (indistinct), that you know or do not know, it goes on. It doesn't matter.



Dr. Rao: (indistinct) (laughter) When people were not so scientific, at that time also, (indistinct rest of comment).



Prabhupāda: Therefore they are called muni. (indistinct) Nasau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. You cannot become a muni unless you differ from the previous system. That is muni. Muni means mental concoction.



Dr. Rao: Mental concoction.



Prabhupāda: That's all. May be thoughtful, but mental concoction. There is no basic truth.



Acyutānanda: When science comes to something which is inconceivable, like gravity, they say it's an inconceivable energy which is pulling everything down. But they don't know what that inconceivable energy is. They just put a fancy word on it, they say it is gravity. And then they claim to have discovered it.



Śyāmasundara: So sometimes Bertrand Russell's philosophy is called atomistic logic, because he sought to base all logic at the, in the smallest particle.



Prabhupāda: That is not new. It was discussed in India, paramāṇuvāda, paramāṇuvāda.



Śyāmasundara: What is that?



*Prabhupāda: That is atomistic. Atom, paramāṇu. And in the Brahmā*-saṁhitā the paramāṇu logic is there, atomic theory. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham. So it is not a new discovery. The paramāṇuvāda, atomic theory, is there already.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he seeks to reduce philosophy to the smallest particle, where each individual fact is to be examined.



Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Here is a scientist. He says that atom is divided into protons, (indistinct). That bigger, they do not know how (indistinct) and where it is ended.



*Dr. Rao: Not only that, but they have developed their idea of anti*-matter, that there is anti-matter, you know, something against matter. So for every particle there is something relative. So his idea is very complicated.



Śyāmasundara: So for each fact there is..., it's also composed of several other facts...



*Prabhupāda: Actually, as we say, that anti*-matter are fixed up in (indistinct). I say anti-matter is spirit. That spirit soul is very small, keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya: [Cc. Madhya 19.140] the tip of the hair divided into ten thousand parts. So it is unimaginable by the modern scientist. Therefore the ultimate smallest part is the spirit soul, spark, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit. Therefore we have to take the knowledge from Vedas. That is the perfect (indistinct).



*Śyāmasundara: He says there are two types of logical atoms*-the sense data and universals. And this problem, he saw, of the difference between the crude data of the senses and the things as understood by physical sciences. So he divided these into two types of knowledge. The knowledge of sense data is the immediate knowledge by acquaintance with something, and the knowledge of physical science is that knowledge derived from things, or inferred, by description from things. And he says the example of the first type of knowledge...



Prabhupāda: This knowledge, what is that?



Devotee: Inference.



Prabhupāda: Inference. What is that, inference knowledge?



Śyāmasundara: Just like the proposition "All men are mortal," this is inferred after examination, scientific examination, of a number of men.



Prabhupāda: How it is? How many number of men one can examine?



Śyāmasundara: Well, this is what he says.



*Prabhupāda: If it is based on scientific examination of men, so our (indistinct) is limited. How many men we can examine to know that he is actually mortal? Just like individual, suppose you live for one hundred years and begin your study of the human being, say, at the age of twenty. So suppose for eighty years you go on examining. How many men you can examine every year? Say ten thousand men? Ten thousand men you examine, go on, eighty years, so how many*-ten thousand into eighty?



Śyāmasundara: Er, eight hundred thousand?



Devotee: Eight million.



Prabhupāda: Eight million. Does it mean there is only eight million persons?



Acyutānanda: And how do you know they're mortal anyway, by examining?



Śyāmasundara: No. This is his idea, that this type of knowledge may not be always true.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is it. It is not true.



Śyāmasundara: The first type of knowledge, centralized in the senses, such as "This snowball is white," he says that type of knowledge, there is no possibility of error, because it is knowledge that's direct or immediate. There's no mediation between. Immediate.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore our proposition, to receive perfect knowledge from the authorities, that is perfect. As Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā*-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. Kṛṣṇa is perfect, and whatever knowledge He imparts, that is perfect. If we take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, then our knowledge is perfect. I may not be as perfect as Kṛṣṇa, but if I simply accept the statements of Kṛṣṇa, then my knowledge is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this type of conclusion such as "All men are mortal," there is no possibility of error because different people may arrive at the opposite conclusion...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) What is that?



Śyāmasundara: He says that this type of conclusion that "All men are mortal," there is room, there is possibility of error in those kind of conclusions because different people arrive at different...



*Prabhupāda: No. This knowledge is perfect because our proof is Vedas. In the Vedas it is stated that bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. In the Vedas it is stated that anything material, by its birth, its growth, its staying, its by*-product, its dwindling, and then vanish. This is the nature of everything material. That we get from the Vedas, that everything which is born is sure to die. So birth, death, old age, by-products, dwindling, this is material nature's way. But we get the perfect knowledge from Vedas; therefore our knowledge is perfect. So we can accept perfect knowledge without any examination. What you think, Dr. Rao?



Dr. Rao: That is it.



Prabhupāda: Because our study is imperfect, because if our senses are imperfect, our scope of knowledge is imperfect, therefore as soon as we receive the knowledge from the perfect source, then it is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says in a type of understanding that is direct, such as "This snowball is white," that there is no possibility of error because there is no distinction between what a thing seems to be and what it is in reality.



Prabhupāda: No. That is called direct perception. So direct perception is not perfect. It is no... Just like I see the sun (indistinct), but I see just like a disc. But it is not a disc. Therefore my direct perception of the sun is imperfect. When we go to scientific book, astronomy, then you can understand that it is so great, fourteen hundred lakhs, or fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than the earth. So this my direct perception, it has no value.



Śyāmasundara: What about the knowledge, for instance, "This snowball is white"? Isn't that a direct fact, this understanding by everyone?



Prabhupāda: Yes. The snowball is white, but it may be mixed up (indistinct) white. That is also very (indistinct).



Dr. Rao: Snowball is actually colorless. It is not white.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Dr. Rao: I mean, so this proposition is incorrect. It is the rays of sun which are falling on the snowball, they are reflected, and then you see that snowball is white. Otherwise, snow is colorless.



Prabhupāda: Sometimes we see seven colors on the snowball. It is white. It is sunshine reflected there.



Dr. Rao: White light. You see white light, but white light is composed of seven colors: violet, indigo, blue, you know, (indistinct) and green, yellow, orange and red. So, but you are seeing white. (indistinct).



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: But that is imperfect.



Dr. Rao: That is imperfection.



Prabhupāda: So therefore it is concluded that direct perception is always imperfect. (laughter)



Devotee: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: His belief for..., the criterion for truth is called the correspondence theory, that a belief is true if it agrees with the facts with which it is supposed to correspond.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this example, we see the snow as white, but it is..., does not correspond with the fact. Therefore it is not knowledge.



Dr. Rao: There is another example. They see water can (indistinct) in several (indistinct). One is the seawater, one is the (indistinct rest of comment)



Śyāmasundara: He also says that besides the correspondence, that fact must correspond with..., that a belief must correspond with the fact if it is to be true. Also he says...



Prabhupāda: So that fact does not correspond by direct perception, (indistinct) that we are seeing the snowball white, but scientifically it is not white; it is a combination of seven colors.



Dr. Rao: And even by saying white, it is (indistinct). You see sky, you see white clouds, you see white light, you see snow. (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Therefore we sometimes say "snow white." (laughter) "Snow white" means (indistinct). (laughter) So what is the standard of whiteness?



Dr. Rao: (indistinct comment) ...they are not transparent. But you can take very fine (indistinct) out of them, and they are transparent. So how can we say they are (indistinct). They are in fact transparent. It is ludicrous. That also science is attempting.



Śyāmasundara: He says another criterion for truth is coherence.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore in our Vedic language they are called, direct perception, pratyakṣa. Pratyakṣa*-jña.



Dr. Rao: Pratyakṣa.



*Prabhupāda: So pratyakṣa is third-class knowledge, according to Vedic system. Pratyakṣa is third-class knowledge. Or fifth-class knowledge. There are stages of knowledge-pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprakṛta-(indistinct)*-that when you come to the standard of aprakṛta knowledge, that is perfection. So pratyakṣa knowledge, direct perception, is fifth-class knowledge, and according to Vedic system, pratyakṣa, aitirya, and śabda... Pratyakṣa, direct perception; (Sanskrit), (indistinct); *and śabdha. Three. So out of these three kinds of evidences, śabda*-pramāṇa, veda-pramāṇa, is perfect. So if pratyakṣa knowledge is perfect, then why a child, a boy, is sent to school? To hear from the teacher. That is śabda. That is śabda. If pratyakṣa, direct perception, would have been perfect, then there was no need of sending these boys to school to hear from the teacher. But this is very scientific, śabda-pramāṇa.



Śyāmasundara: But isn't the understanding of the white light composed of seven other colors, isn't that also a fact of direct sense perception?



*Prabhupāda: No. That is śabda. So a man sees this white snowball, he sees snow. He may not see the reflection of the sun, seven colors, but when he goes to a teacher, he can hear that there is seven colors. Therefore śabda*-pramāṇa. The word, the sound, then he can be perfect.



Dr. Rao: (indistinct) Vedic truth?



Prabhupāda: No. Anything we receive knowledge directly by our sense perception, that is imperfect knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: Because even if we see the seven colors in the laboratory with instruments, we still don't understand the even simpler facts of which that is composed. There may be seven colors, but how to understand those?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore material knowledge is always imperfect. That is the conclusion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind plays no part in the process of evolution, because the only evidence for the existence of mental phenomena is a fragment of space and time. But this is not a substance; it is simply a set of relations.



*Prabhupāda: He does not know it is also matter, but very subtle matter. It is matter. Just like ether*-you cannot touch, you cannot see, but still it is matter. And mind is subtler than the ether. But it is matter. Intelligence is subtler than the mind, but still it is matter. So from Vedic authorities we understand that earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, they are all material.



Dr. Rao: And ahaṅkāra, ego.



Prabhupāda: Ego, that is also matter.



Dr. Rao: That is the ultimate...



Śyāmasundara: So does the mind play any part in the evolutionary process? The mind?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Evolutionary process means... If evolution means to go higher, then from mind you come to intelligence. And if you go still higher, then you come to the platform of soul, spirit soul.



Śyāmasundara: Well, according to these men like Russell, the evolution of bodies, the changes from one body to another, those are simply physical.



*Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is nonsense. That we have already discussed, that if evolution of bodies, then just like this Darwin says that some monkeys, eh? So where is the direct proof that a monkey body is changing to a human body? We say that there are different types of bodies always, just like different types of apartment. But the living entity, the soul, is transferring from one apartment to another just like we change. We are in this room, we may go to another room*-but that room is already ready. But I am entering a certain type of apartment according to my means. If I can pay more rent, I can get very nice apartment. If I do not pay, I cannot pay, then that is not possible. Similarly, according to our karma, nature is offering us different apartments, and these apartments are already there, fixed up, 8,400,000 species of life. So as you make yourself fit, you enter accordingly. It is not fixed up that because you are now in a very nice apartment you cannot go down or go up. If you are fit for entering into better apartment, that is also ready. And if you are unfit for entering a better, then lower class of apartment, that is also ready. So these things are already there.



Dr. Rao: (indistinct) between chance of from one apartment to another?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is said... Just like you step forward. You first of all put your leg. When you see that it is fixed up, then you get up (indistinct). Unless you are firm, that "Now I am solid," then you take up the other leg. Similarly death takes place when it is ascertained that this soul has to enter such*-and-such body, when it is settled up by higher authority, then he gives up this body and enters into (another) body.



Śyāmasundara: He says that matter is simply a series of events in which energy and not force as the real motive power, that what we call the material world, rather than being described as solid and understood in terms of force, that actually it is energy performing different events.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. It is forced by the energy. Matter has no form, but by the superior energy, the living entity (indistinct) mixed up (indistinct) matter and make the form. Just like a (indistinct) plate, clay, water, and fire. So the potter makes a form from the clay. Clay means earth and water, mixed up, and it makes a pot and then puts it with fire and it becomes a glass and so on. So tejo*-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam. It is simply exchange of earth, water, and fire. But this mixture is being made by the potter. And the instrument is the potter's wheel. So similarly, God is the potter, and the material nature is the wheel, and so many things are coming out. But if there is no potter to turn the wheel or make the clay into pots, this is not (indistinct). There is already water, there is already earth, there is already fire, but unless a spirit, a being, a living being, comes into it, there is no question of (indistinct). Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, (indistinct). Because the living entities are there, the formation is taking place. A (indistinct), it is a combination of matter. But because we see that the living entity is there, it is taking a certain type of shape. Matter does not out of itself take the shape. That is wrong theory. We have no such experience where matter is taking automatically shape. (indistinct). Is there any exception?



Dr. Rao: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: How matter can take shape? That is not philosophy, that is childish. That is the defect of the modern civilization. A man has got childish knowledge and he is becoming philosopher.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that the cause*-effect relationship between things has very little effect on genuine events which can cause reality.



Prabhupāda: No. There must be cause and effect.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says there is cause and effect, but these have little effect on the main events that comprise reality.



*Prabhupāda: No. There's a cause, a supreme cause, sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1], supreme cause. They'll have to find out the supreme cause. Just like I was eating that fruit, what is called? (indistinct) what is the English of (indistinct)? All right. Take any fruit, any fruit, I am eating one fruit. Take orange. So take each piece of orange parts, there are so many seeds, and each seed there is a tree, and each tree there is millions of fruit, and each fruit there is millions of seeds, and each seed, there is a (indistinct) tree. So who has made this? Speak up. Therefore you have to find out the supreme cause. That is knowledge. (indistinct) And Brahmā, the most perfect (indistinct) in this universe, he says that



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*How you have to take that knowledge from the superior? He gives us the key: sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. Vedānta is searching out what is Brahman. Brahman means the original source of everything. [break] ...mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ [Bg. 10.8]. So those who are vidhā, actually learned, they know that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme source of everything; *therefore we should offer our obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. This is actually knowledge. And one who does not know how to (indistinct) the supreme, but suppose blindly he accepts, "Kṛṣṇa is supreme," he also derives (indistinct). Just like fire: either with scientific knowledge you touch, or without any knowledge you touch, the fire will act. Similarly, Krsna is the supreme. Either you study scientifically or not study, He is supreme. So somehow or other, if one goes to supreme he becomes purified. That is, that is the defect of the modern man. Therefore they question, question about the līlā of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs. Gopī means, gopī is actually surrendered(?) to Kṛṣṇa in love. Kṛṣṇa is faithful(?). But Kṛṣṇa, He is the supreme. Their lusty desires become purified and they became the first*-class devotees. Therefore Lord Caitanya was so strict as a sannyāsī to allow women to come to near to His (indistinct), He says, ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇa yā kalpitā. So there is no superior mode of worship than it was conceived by the damsels of Vraja, because they loved Kṛṣṇa blindly, without any reservation, without any return. Mad after Kṛṣṇa. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this is the first-class love. They might have gone with some purpose, that doesn't matter, but because they approached Kṛṣṇa somehow or other, (indistinct) kāma, it doesn't matter. Fire, the same example: fire you touch in any way, it will act. So in that way, Kṛṣṇa does not become polluted. Even superficially it appears to be wrong, the gopīs were others' wives, but because He is Kṛṣṇa, He cannot be polluted. The example is given, just like the sun. The sun absorbs water from urinal, so that place where you pass urine, that becomes sterilized, purified, but sun does not become impure. Similarly, you may go with Kṛṣṇa, even with lust, it doesn't matter, but because you come to Kṛṣṇa, you become purified. And Kṛṣṇa remains pure always. So those who do not know this science, they think, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is being (indistinct)." Kṛṣṇa is not being (indistinct), Kṛṣṇa is giving chance to everyone, "You come to Me, anyway, I give you protection." This is all. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. That is Vaiṣṇava. Even if you are sinful... For a married woman who goes to another man, it is sinful, but because they are going to Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa makes them pure, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Therefore the transgression, according to the, if you are sinful, becomes purified in touch with Kṛṣṇa. As the example is very nice, (indistinct). Yan-nāma-śruti-mātreṇa pumān bhavati nirmalaḥ: simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa's name one becomes purified. How the gopīs can remain impure, in touch with Kṛṣṇa? Simply in touch with His holy name one becomes pure, and they are directly in touch with Kṛṣṇa, how they can be impure? So one who does not know the science of Kṛṣṇa, they say like that, "Oh, why (indistinct)?" They want to give direction to God. They think that God should be under their rules and regulations; *therefore they dare to question Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa therefore says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Whatever He does, that is transcendental, but one must know tattvataḥ, in truth. And as soon as he knows it, he becomes liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So one should know Kṛṣṇa in truth, not superficially, and comparing oneself to Kṛṣṇa. No, Kṛṣṇa is... "He (is) a man like me, maybe little wiser, that's all." Dr. Frog calculation. Atlantic Ocean from the well, three-feet well. You see. (indistinct). Yes.



Indian man: The gopīs went to Kṛṣṇa out of knowledge, or being affected by Him?



Prabhupāda: Being affected by Him. Yes.



Indian man: By His beauty. Not that they realized that He is God and...



*Prabhupāda: No. The Vṛndāvana, they did not know Kṛṣṇa, even Yaśodā*-mayī did not know that He is God. Otherwise, how the transaction of pleasure will be done, if they knew that He is God? Then they could not show, I mean to say, freely mix with Kṛṣṇa. They did not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. "Kṛṣṇa is our friend, boy friend." They're all neighborhood children. From childhood they are grown up, and the girls, when they are twelve, thirteen years old, they're married. So Kṛṣṇa was not married. (indistinct) wait up to twenty years. But the girl friends, so they are coming to Kṛṣṇa, they could not forget Kṛṣṇa. And they wanted to serve their husbands, but it was not possible. Because in our India, twelve-years-old boy, they got married. But a girl, twelve years, thirteen years, she is (indistinct) young. But the girls had love for Kṛṣṇa, but they are married-some of them had children-but still, they used to come to Kṛṣṇa due to old friendship. That is a fact. But this kind of friendship is not allowed in the society. Therefore it appears like immorality. And Kṛṣṇa also instructed them, when the gopīs came at midnight. He said that "What you have done?" He (indistinct) immediately. That instruction is there. But still they insisted. Their love for Kṛṣṇa is so intense that He must dance with them. They have come and they are not going back. So Kṛṣṇa is always servant to His devotees. And that another point is that Kṛṣṇa is the real enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. So even He danced with others' wives, actually He's the proprietor. So from that sense, angle of vision, there is no immoral.



*Pañca*-draviḍa: From that angle of vision everyone is committing adultery except Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa... When you think that "This is my wife," that is other thing. But (s)he does not belong to you; everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. But under certain ritualistic ceremony, marriage ceremony, Kṛṣṇa gives you, "All right, you take this as your wife." That is, so much we can take. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. But you cannot aspire more than that. That is immoral.



Śyāmasundara: This Bertrand Russell says that ethics, or what is right and wrong, is simply a set of emotional attitudes, and it cannot be, we cannot regard anything as good or bad. That nothing...



Prabhupāda: He does not make any distinction between good and bad?



Śyāmasundara: That there's no absolute good and bad. Nothing can be said "This is true or false," that "This is good," or that "This is bad."



Prabhupāda: That means he could not observe the distinction between good and bad. Does it mean like that?



Śyāmasundara: He says the only knowledge which is valid is proven scientifically, and he says that since moral right and wrong is not...



Prabhupāda: What is his proposal? What is scientifically proven? What is scientifically bad?



Śyāmasundara: He says good and bad are not subject to scientific proof.



Prabhupāda: But proof to him. But there is proof, what is really good and what is really bad. Has he given any practical example, that "This is scientifically good" and that "this is scientifically bad"?



Śyāmasundara: He says, "What is good is that which is desired," that desirable.



Prabhupāda: But anyone can desire anything. (laughter) So it is nonsense.



*Pañca*-draviḍa: Also it is nonsense because he went to jail because he wanted them not to bomb. He went to jail himself.



Prabhupāda: So was that not bad thing, to go to the jail? (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: But it's relative. He says it's relative, good and bad.



Prabhupāda: Then he was a madman. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: From his point of view, he said it was good that he went to jail.



Prabhupāda: Madman always thinks like that. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: He said that values like good and bad lie outside the domain of knowledge, that they are simply venting of emotions.



Prabhupāda: That outside means it depends on the verdict of somebody further up. Is it not? He does not come to that point?



Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't come to that point. No. He says it's all relative, good and bad.



Prabhupāda: No. He says... What does he say?



Śyāmasundara: He says that values like good and bad lie outside the domain of knowledge, that they are simply emotional.



*Prabhupāda: Outside the domain of knowledge, so that means it depends on the verdict of God. If God says, "This is good," then it is good. If God says, "This is bad," then it is bad. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you surrender unto Him, that is religion. And any religion which does not teach to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that is not religion. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can say sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]? Any religion which does not preach to surrender to the Supreme, that is not religion.



*Śyāmasundara: Just like in Bertrand Russell's own case, they're going to drop the bomb on someone. Now some people say it's good*-they should drop the bomb to test it. Some people, like he, say, "No, it's bad." So who is to decide? There's no scientific proof.



*Prabhupāda: No. Proof, he does not know. Under whose order to drop bombs, bombs should be dropped, under whose order the bombs should not be dropped? There is authority, but he does not know. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna hesitated to fight, "No, I shall..., I shall not drop the bomb." But when he was convinced, after studying Bhagavad-gītā, that "I have to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa," so Kṛṣṇa says, "Drop the bomb," you drop*-that is good. That is the... So here in this material world, they are doing with the bomb business by their whim. But when it is directly ordered by Kṛṣṇa, that is not whim; that is good. So that is the standard of good and bad. You should carry out, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. That is the injunction, as Arjuna says, that "I shall carry out Your order." (indistinct) Krsna consciousness. No hesitation. If one does not do that, that is bad. He may pose himself very saintly person, but if he does not carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, then he's bad.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the social good is that which is desired by the most people.



*Prabhupāda: Self... Most people may be foolish. Therefore we don't take social or in that way. Our Vedic civilization is from the higher authorities. Just like law we take from Manu, Manu*-saṁhitā.



Devotee: Most people wanted to drop the bomb. And he was against it. So therefore his own philosophy is negated by himself.



Śyāmasundara: And his idea is that you have to educate...



*Prabhupāda: And what is the ultimate goal of that education? So ultimate goal of education is to come to Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. That is education. (indistinct), she is educated. Why? So ultimate knowledge is that, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19].



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that emotions are what are determining good and bad, and if we educate people into scientific reality...



*Prabhupāda: No. No emotion. We don't... Just like Arjuna. By emotion he was thinking, "I shall not fight." That was emotion. So "I shall be bad man, taking to these orders"*-these are... Anything material, that is emotion, sentiment. Yes. So religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. So therefore our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so sound. We do not go by sentiment. We accept the superior order of Kṛṣṇa (indistinct), it is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is no such thing as fact. There are not facts.



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. (laughter) He does not know what is facts.



Devotee: He just before said that it is facts what we see from our senses, so again he's negating his own philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: But he's using... He wants to use another word for facts. Instead of facts he...



Prabhupāda: What is the fact?



Śyāmasundara: ...he calls it propositions, or symbol, such as "Snow is white." Instead of calling it a fact, he would say, "It is proposition." (laughter)



Prabhupāda: What is the fact? He must say "This is fact."



Indian man: This is the same question in London. One of the (indistinct), that how can... [break] (end)





SKINNER.SYA



B. F. Skinner



Śyāmasundara: This philosopher is B. F. Skinner. He is actually a psychologist, but he has a philosophy also. That philosophy is...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) psychology is part of philosophy. (indistinct) better than that philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Anyway, the philosophy is that the Christian idea that inside the body there is a person is outmoded, because the science has discovered that a person's behavior and his reactions are simply a product of his environment, his conditioning; so he can make a fool out of a wise man or a wise man out of a fool simply by changing the surroundings and the conditions.



Prabhupāda: Why the man has not been able to change the surroundings of death, birth? What is his philosophy?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he said that problem can be never be solved.



Prabhupāda: Then how he says it can be explained by surroundings?



Śyāmasundara: He only talks about behavior.



Prabhupāda: Behavior, that's all right. Whatever behavior, in the ultimate, goal, everyone is dying so how man can change this condition? Then he can say that there is no God, there is no soul.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that he wants..., he has one idea: that is to be able to control human behavior.



Prabhupāda: What he wants to do? By a man's behavior... Every man is eating. How he can control? He cannot control.



Śyāmasundara: By what they call method of reinforcement. Supposing... He says that men have become too free, so our whole society, culture, is ruined because men are too free.



Prabhupāda: No. We are not free. We, according to our Vedic civilization, we are controlled by the Vedic knowledge. We are not free.



Śyāmasundara: He says that, in a way. He says that everyone is conditioned by their environment.



Prabhupāda: No. We are conditioned by nature, not by environment. Just like there is excessive heat, excessive cold. He is conditioned by nature. You cannot avoid it. So where is his..., molding this environment. You cannot make winter season into summer season or summer season into winter season.



Śyāmasundara: No. But he says you can train a man to accept certain values by reinforcing, rewarding them when they are right and punishing them when they are wrong.



Prabhupāda: That means there are living conditions, he wants to make them further conditioned.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is the idea.



Śyāmasundara: Perfect control over everyone.



Prabhupāda: So that is already there. The Vedic injunction means the (indistinct), they are conditioned, so that under conditions they also can be fruitful(?). What is his idea?



Śyāmasundara: He says that society should be full of love and security and harmony, and everyone should work in unison. But because people have freedom to choose what they want, then too much freedom, the society is falling apart.



*Prabhupāda: That is Western society, not the society controlled by the Vedic literature. Just like marriage in Vedic society, that is a religious obligation. They cannot cancel. The freedom, the so*-called freedom is allowed in the upstart Western society.



Śyāmasundara: So he says we have to change all this now.



Prabhupāda: Then we have to take to the Vedic principles. That is the way.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is taken from his work with rats and pigeons.



Prabhupāda: His authority is rats and pigeons. Our authority is Vedavyāsa. (laughter) That is the difference. Our authority is Kṛṣṇa. Our authority is Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Manu, and his authority is rats and pigeons. That is the difference between the West and East.



Śyāmasundara: He shows scientifically that you can train a rat to push..., of many buttons, he will push the one that gives him food. If he pushes one button and the food comes, then he will continually press that button. So he says you can condition a man by rewarding him when he is right and punishing him when he is wrong.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the whole Vedic literature*-the heaven and hell. If you do like this, then you go to heaven, and if you do like this, you go to hell. If you do like this, you go to Godhead. That is the Vedic literature. It is already there. (Sanskrit). (Sanskrit), therefore if one chants like this, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. And this morning I was speaking, "If you want to be naked, then you become tree." (indistinct) servant, and if he wants to serve Kṛṣṇa, (indistinct). These things are there the Vedic literature. They are controlled. That is real conditioning. Real controlling means there is no mistake. If these rats and cats are controlling, then maybe you take rats' and cats' authority, and others may take tigers' and others' authority. This is stated already. The authority must be (indistinct).



Devotee: He isn't saying how we should control people. He is simply putting forth the idea that people should be controlled. He doesn't say... In fact, he admits that he doesn't know what the aim or goal is, or how exactly we should control it. He is simply putting forth that according to the Vedic system, the correct thesis that man can be controlled.



*Prabhupāda: Man is already controlled, already controlled. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā that you are already under the dangerous laws, under the control of the stringent laws of material nature. And you are feeling inconvenienced, just like the threefold miserable condition. (indistinct-greeting guests) So there is no doubt about it. We are controlled. Nobody can say "I am free." We are controlled. When we are being controlled, we are feeling some inconvenience. So we are advising that you be under the control of Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee: (indistinct) ...come criminals, and they are causing disruption in this society. So he says that that is our fault. He says that everyone from childhood should be trained in a controlled environment and then be conditioned to a certain pattern so that they will not commit what is crime and will only do what is good. In other words, they become like robots. So what they do is program these robots. They're programmed to do a certain thing.



Prabhupāda: So that program is already there. But if you create your own program, you do not follow the standard program. That is the defect.



*Śyāmasundara: This program, because Skinner himself believes in Judeo*-Christian ethics combined with a scientific tradition. But he fails to answer how it is possible to accept those ethics without accepting something like an inner person with an autonomous concept. In other words, he says we can program society to be good to your neighbor, to love one another, to be honest, upright, like that. But he is still not sure how it would be possible without accepting a free will.



Prabhupāda: The defect is that these programs are being forwarded by some rascal. Therefore they are defective. If they would have been forwarded by perfect man, then you would have actual (indistinct). Now one rascal is forwarding some program, another rascal next time (indistinct) this is true. So this is going on in Western world. Because according to Bhāgavata we belong to the category of dogs, hogs, camels. So what is the benefit of a dog's program and (indistinct) by camel's program. If they are on the, basically there is nothing but dogs, hogs, camels and asses, then suppose dog has given some program and the camel says, "No. This program is better than this one." And the ass comes, he introduces another program, "This program is better than this program." So either of these programs, because they are made by dogs, hogs, asses and camels, they cannot be perfect. Take a program from a real human being. Then it is perfect. The defect is there. One philosopher is proposing something, another philosopher is proposing something... That is (indistinct) especially in the Western countries, they are doing so independence (?). But the Vedic civilization there is no independence. They must follow the Vedic injunction. As I have said several times, the *Vedas* says that the stool of cow is completely pure. They do not argue that "Formerly you say that the stool of animal is impure. Now you are saying that the stool of animal, cow, is pure. So how can we accept?" There is no such thing. The *Vedas* says, even it is stool, but the *Vedas* says the stool of cow is perfectly pure. Yes. No contradiction. Our presentation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is like that. But Kṛṣṇa says, "(indistinct), as it is." There is no question of altering or changing according to circumstances. We know Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Whatever He has said, it is all right, in all conditions. That is our belief. We do not deviate. So similarly, if the direction is taken for training from the perfect, that is the best. And if the direction is taken from the process of (indistinct) philosophy, hogs, dogs, and asses, and camels how can you take? (indistinct) something, (indistinct) something, (indistinct) analysis something, so the whole society will be (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says from sunrise (?), he says everyone is conditioned anyway. Everyone is conditioned.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is conditioned, that is a fact. Unless he is conditioned, there is no question of material life. Material life means conditioned life. There is no question of material life. Material life means conditioned life. There is no question of freedom. Just like prison life. Prison life means conditioned life. You may be a first*-class prisoner, a second-class, a third-class prisoner, that is another thing, but as soon as you are put within the walls of the prison house, you are conditioned. That is a fact. Similarly, anyone who has accepted this body (Sanskrit). Just like Bhāgavata says, nayam deha dehabhajam nrloke. Nrloke. Everyone is conditioned, accepting this material body. But he says nayam deha deha-bhajam nrloke. But those who have accepted this material body in the human society, for them it is not good to be engaged in sense gratification like dogs, hogs and camels. Everyone who has got this material body, he is conditioned. But, so when one gets the body of a human being, he should not be so conditioned like the dogs, hogs, camels. This is the truth, that we are conditioned. We have got the body. We have got the bodily necessity. We have to eat, we have to sleep, gratify our senses, protect ourself from fear. The conditions are there, but still, we can make the conditions better. How? Tapo. We have to undergo austerities, penances. Just like we, we don't say, "No sex life," but "No illicit sex life." This is better life.



Devotee: Skinner also believes that we have to control activities, but he himself is not willing to undergo these austerities.



Prabhupāda: Therefore he is useless. Example is better than precept. By example he cannot prove. Therefore his precept has no value.



Atreya Ṛṣi: Another thing he says that if you tell the society to get comforts, material comforts, have peace, in relationship with man to man, benefits one's own self on a very false ego level.



Śyāmasundara: Humanitarian.



Prabhupāda: What is that humanitarian? I kick you, you kick me.



Śyāmasundara: He says that now the conditions that control us are haphazard. Some are designed by selfish men to exploit others.



Prabhupāda: Why (indistinct) that he is perfect man?



*Śyāmasundara: He says that we can design a culture that will survive due to its being moral, set, upright, honest, hard*-working, all-typical American.



Devotee: What about the standard? Someone has to be God in order to set the standard.



Śyāmasundara: He said, "Between God and I, I must admit that God is (indistinct)." (indistinct) quote. He says that "Between myself...," between himself... He says there is a curious similarity between himself and God, adding, however, that "Perhaps I must yield to God in point of seniority." He wants to play God.



Prabhupāda: He wants to play God.



Śyāmasundara: He wants to design the culture.



Prabhupāda: What is his conception of God?



Śyāmasundara: Senior qualities.



Prabhupāda: That's right. (laughter) We accept that. Nityo nityānām. (laughter) We accept that. That is Vedic. That is Vedic. He is also living being, but who is the superior, chief living being? That is Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are also living beings, but you accept me as chief of the society. Similarly, there are innumerable living entities all over the universes, all over the creation, but who is the chief of them? That is God, the leader. Our philosophy is to follow the leader, Kṛṣṇa.



Devotee: But Skinner has no idea that there is an actual representative of God on earth that could set up such a perfect society. Therefore he is dreaming about setting one up in the future while the real representative is actually present with us now. He is thinking of the future.



Prabhupāda: When was he thinking?



Devotee: He is thinking that someday... He is thinking that it can be done. He is living now.



Śyāmasundara: That is his picture. (shows book to Prabhupāda) That is Skinner playing the organ, and it quotes him, saying...



Prabhupāda: So inform him that "Your theory is that God's representative..." He is expecting God's representative?



Devotee: No, no. I'll tell you what he says about God. He says that the belief in God arose due to man's inability to understand his world, but that man no longer needs such a fiction.



Prabhupāda: Then one has to believe him?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Devotee: He also says that we have the capacity to take matters into our own hands. We don't have to ruin it by some controller far away who we have no control over.



Prabhupāda: But that you cannot do. You cannot take the question of birth, death, old age in your hands. How he says that you shall be able to take matters into your own hands?



Śyāmasundara: Well, most scientists like that accept those problems as inescapable problems. But while we are here, let us have the best life we can.



Prabhupāda: But if he can give you better life, where there is no death, there is no old age, there is no disease, why not accept it?



Devotee: We only accept that as a (indistinct) life here. This life you may remain eternal. We have no (indistinct) beyond this life, nor are we willing to accept.



Prabhupāda: That is your conclusion. This cannot be corrected. This cannot be corrected. That they cannot live. They accept it. But there, after death, it is done. But if we give some thought that after death you can attain, what does he say? After death, if there is a life of blissful knowledge, so why don't they take it?



Devotee: Well, a lot of scientists consider that to be a, simply a psychological way of avoiding the issue now. They say, "Let us take matters in our hand right now. Don't try to..."



Prabhupāda: The idea is we have not been able to take the matter in hand to stop death. That is not possible.



Devotee: They think by endeavoring, they will. They say that for so long this idea that we have a life after this life, that kept people complacent, without working up to their own conclusion. Now if you cast out that idea, you forget that idea of an afterlife and you look at here and now, then you will become...



Prabhupāda: You are working. The dogs and hogs are working, day and night. Why they are working? If you (indistinct), they are already working. They are already working like animals, day and night. We sing that, śīta ātapa bāta bariṣana e dina jāminī jagi re. They are already working. They are not free.



Devotee (2): (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) can make that.



*Devotee: They're the ones who have actually neglected taking into consideration the real problem, they slide over the real problem, that is birth, death, old age and disease. And they are fiddling around in very small matters*-social problems, political problems.



Prabhupāda: These social problems are automatically solved. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, social problems will be solved automatically.



Atreya Ṛṣi: The scientists have been offering a spiritual solution, but a spiritual solution also includes all other...



Prabhupāda: All material solutions.



Atreya Ṛṣi: And they are trying to solve political problems, and they are unable to. This is the...



Prabhupāda: That means less intelligent. They have a poor fund of knowledge. And they are philosophers.



Atreya Ṛṣi: And they have no...



Śyāmasundara: And they call their process social engineering. For instance, they say a criminal does not become bad because he is naturally bad but it's because of his environment. So if we train him in such a way he will be good, and we can...



*Prabhupāda: Just like in the Western countries, the social (indistinct), the killing of animals*-it is taken not bad. In other societies it is taken as bad. How is that? There are two contradictory societies. One society says that nonviolence is nice, better, but another society says no, violence is better. Then how will I (indistinct)? Which society is good, which society bad? How you will decide?



Devotee: He has no way of deciding.



Prabhupāda: No. There is no way. If you come to the Vedic life, then you will know.



Śyāmasundara: So we should propose this to Skinner: "We will accept your process if you take direction from us."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: He accepts that there should be some process, but he doesn't know what it is. He obviously has not...



Prabhupāda: The process is, just like we say, Vedic injunction: sa gurum eva abhigacchet. He must approach guru.



*Atreya Ṛṣi: His idea is that the process should be man*-controlled. Our society is being controlled by man.



*Prabhupāda: It is man*-controlled. It is man-controlled. Our society is being controlled by me.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the best way to release the beneficial energy in the people is to build a world in which people are naturally good and in which they are rewarded for wanting what is good for their culture.



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Kṛṣṇa society. The atheists, let him study, let him come, let him understand.



Devotee: His critics... The critics of this theory that we can condition everyone to a certain program are very fearful that someone unscrupulous will be driving us on.



Prabhupāda: No. That we cannot take, I mean, to accept guru as unscrupulous. Therefore we take paramparā. He is coming directly from God. He is perfect. Therefore this paramparā system is bona fide. We cannot accept any rascal to become guru. Guru must be in the paramparā system. He is receiving the knowledge directly from God, Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: This is their dilemma now, that they cannot find any standard of behavior. Formerly people's behavior was motivated by deprivation. They wanted more economic gain because there was hunger. But now we have everything, so no one wants to work anymore. So now there is nothing that satisfies people enough to make them behave.



Prabhupāda: Therefore the Vedānta gives for him: athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now we have got enough to eat, enough to enjoy. Now we inquire about Brahman. This is the business we should (indistinct). So this is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are giving knowledge about Brahman, or the Supreme. We are not concerned about giving you some scientific invention, some this invention, that invention. We are giving the ultimate benefit. Now, just like I have come to America with this hope, that "Americans are not properly (indistinct), they have no (indistinct) problems. If I go there, if I speak to them about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they will be able to take." So if we, the human society, has come to such standard, then the next point is, now they should eat peacefully, sleep peacefully and sense gratification peacefully and, making the mind peaceful, inquire about the Supreme Absolute. This is ideal life.



Śyāmasundara: This will provide the stimulus which will..., so the people will react favorably, to behave favorably, simply by performing these activities?



*Prabhupāda: The experience is... We have got experience that this material world is full of misery. Everyone will (agree). Otherwise why he is trying to adjust? Now we have got information from Bhagavad*-gītā,



mām upetya tu kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gataḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who comes to Me, back to home, back to Godhead, he does not come again to this material world which is full of misery." Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti... [Bg. 8.15].



Śyāmasundara: But then what is the stimulus? Why will they...?



Prabhupāda: This is stimulus. You are (indistinct) suffering miserable condition of life, and we are offering that "You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you go to a place where only there is blissful life and knowledge." What is that?



*Devotee: Ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ [Bg. 8.16].



Prabhupāda: No. Mām upetya.



Devotee: Mām upetya tu kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. "From the highest planet in this material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death takes place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again."



*Prabhupāda: So there are many others. There are many planets, that is a fact. So there is a planet where Kṛṣṇa lives, and if you go there, you live perfectly. You are trying to go to the moon planet, but here it says, ā*-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino... [Bg. 8.16] What is that? [break]



Śyāmasundara: So we have to condition people that every time they press our button, Hare Kṛṣṇa button, they get some pleasure.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Ānandāmbudhi*-vardhanam. Ceto-darpaṇa... Every time he gets some higher knowledge, and his dirty heart he can clean. And therefore his spiritual beliefs become (indistinct). Whereas in the material world, what it says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ...



Devotee: Punar āvartino 'rjuna.



Devotee (2): Again returning. Mām upetya tu kaunteya.



Prabhupāda: Read the translation.



Devotee: "From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again."



Prabhupāda: In the material world there are higher planetary systems, lower planetary systems, and we sometimes go higher planetary, sometimes down, according to our karma. But wherever you remain, you cannot avoid birth, death, old age and disease. "But if you come to My planet, then there is no more birth." What is that objection of this (indistinct)?



Śyāmasundara: He only wants to find out. He doesn't know himself what is the...



Prabhupāda: He doesn't know anything. He is a fool. What does he know? He has to learn.



Devotee: He more or less admits that he is not a perfect personality.



Prabhupāda: So who he accepts as perfect?



Devotee: He says "I am not happy."



Prabhupāda: Nobody is happy. How you can be happy? No one in this material world can be happy. How you can be, you are also one of them. Why you are claiming a better position? Nobody can be happy. We say nobody can be happy. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Anyone who is living in this material world cannot be happy.



Śyāmasundara: It seems that Skinner should be very ripe(?), or he is very ripe, because he wants it to be a society where it is controlled and it is...



Prabhupāda: So let him come and study the society. He is a philosopher and intelligent. Invite him.



*Śyāmasundara: What about this statement? He says that "I can take any person at young age, any person with me, any person, and I can, at random, and I can train him to be any kind of specialist I might select*-doctor, lawyer, even beggarman or thief, regardless of his talents or his nature, his tendencies or abilities."



Prabhupāda: So that means training should be given from childhood. That is the whole idea.



Śyāmasundara: But is that true?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: We can train anyone to become anything.



Prabhupāda: Anything. Just like there is a story, the Tarzan. Tarzan. And he was living in the society of monkeys, and he learned how to jump from one tree to another. (laughter)



Devotee: If someone has a natural kṣatriya tendency, he cannot become a Vaiṣṇava?



Prabhupāda: No. There is no such barrier. Anyone can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Anyone. Just like...



Devotee: What about brāhmaṇa? Brāhmaṇa too? Someone who is naturally a (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: By coming...



Śyāmasundara: Everyone has become śūdra now. You say everyone is born śūdra.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: In the Vedic age wouldn't everyone want to become a brāhmaṇa? Why train someone as a śūdra?



Devotee (2): It is progressive. It takes time. It is a whole progressive path. That is the whole Vedic culture, that everyone, no matter what...



Prabhupāda: And all the śūdras can be made brāhmaṇas. But where all the śūdras are coming? All the śūdras are ready to become brāhmaṇas? How you can explain? We are inviting everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.



Śyāmasundara: He is just saying that it is possible that you can mold anyone into anything.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Possible, yes.



Devotee: But if they won't accept, if they won't accept...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is karma.



Śyāmasundara: But he says there is no possibility of their not accepting, if you form the conditioning as the way. That they must accept by conditioning.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also possible. But who is going to make that?



Devotee: How one can supremely control all conditions that would free one from karmic reaction? How could they control the environment?



Śyāmasundara: By punishment and reward. By punishing them when they are wrong...



Devotee: Say he had a house, and he was doing that, and all of a sudden there was a flood came and the house... How could he control the environment?



Śyāmasundara: Of a person, not of a house.



Devotee: That is what I mean. How can you control the environment if that person is going to be punished and rewarded when he wants...



Prabhupāda: He says from childhood.



Śyāmasundara: He is talking about child. Infant.



Prabhupāda: Infant. Yes. That is possible. That is possible. Just like our children, from childhood they are dancing.



*Śyāmasundara: Here is a picture of his child. He put his child in a box when it was born. Now this is her today, twenty*-seven years later. He conditioned her in this box for a year.



Devotee: How long?



*Śyāmasundara: For some time. And she came out better, healthier and happier than normal children, because they kept the temperature the same, because it was germ*-free, there was no disease and always cleaned by rotating...



Prabhupāda: That means he protected the child from all calamities.



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So that is fortunate. If you can protect... Therefore I repeatedly said that our Dallas center should be taken as very much important place. All our children must go.



Śyāmasundara: Make the environment perfect.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have repeatedly said.



Devotee: The reason he built the box, he could not control the environment.



Prabhupāda: No, no, box, you are speaking box, (indistinct) different box. That is another thing. But the perfection is required.



Devotee: His supposition of being able to control the environment completely is imperfect, because he can't control the environment perfectly. Even if he builds his child a box, what if there is a fire in the house and the box burns down? How he can control that environment?



Śyāmasundara: Right now, the level of their experiments are relatively small. For instance, they have created teaching machines where a child is put in front of the machine and a question is asked, and if the child answers it correctly he gets the reward.



Prabhupāda: Another nonsense. The thing is that the Vedic conception of raising children, brahmācārya, that system is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: Not by machine.



Prabhupāda: No, this is (indistinct). We are not machines.



Śyāmasundara: No. But he says that when the answer is given correctly by the child, then he is rewarded by him.



*Prabhupāda: The answers and questions are already there. That is (indistinct). Just like we say that tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. There is question and answer. Therefore in order to understand the transcendental science, we must go to guru, gurum eva abhigacchet. And then what is the symptom of guru? Samit*-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Guru means who has learned knowledge by the paramparā system. Śrotriyaṁ brahma. The result is that he is perfectly a devotee.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose we had a machine and one of our children was given the question "Who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead?" And then there were three possibilities, and if she pushed "Kṛṣṇa," some reward would come out.



Prabhupāda: She has to push some button to take out Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the answer has three choices: Kṛṣṇa, Durgā, Kālī. Which one is the Supreme Personality? So if she chooses Kṛṣṇa and then he gets rewarded. So in the future he will always think Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



Prabhupāda: Why must think? Why not take a live master?



Devotee: Yes. He says that that can be done also, but he is saying that they should be rewarded when they say the right answer.



Śyāmasundara: He says that this will solve the problem of not enough teachers in our schools, public schools, not enough teachers for our children. A huge class, and the children have only one teacher. So there's not enough individual time given to each student.



Prabhupāda: So why not produce many teachers? That we (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: No one wants to teach anymore. No one wants to teach anymore.



Prabhupāda: Why?



Devotee: They don't know what to teach.



Prabhupāda: Because they do not know how to teach, and they are simply teaching (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: They don't get enough pay, so many reasons.



Prabhupāda: So our teachers do not ask any payment. They go freely. Why don't you take advantage of these teachers?



Devotee: One thing they (indistinct) Prabhupāda, that we are thinking in terms of Vedic culture, and they say well, if this Vedic culture was previously existing, then why did it dissolve? Why did it fall apart and now we have to make a new one?



Prabhupāda: That is not (indistinct). A new way we cannot. If you want perfection, you must take to Vedic culture, because it is not with the four defects of human beings. Anything introduced for... Just like we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and some of the students are falling back. How (indistinct)? That is not the defect of the institution. That is some other power. So people might have fallen from the standard of Vedic culture, but they cannot invent any new one. That is it.



Devotee: That is the same thing we say about the scientific process. The scientific process isn't imperfect, it is just the masters who are imperfect. They claim that the empiric process is perfect. We have not developed it to perfection.



Devotee (2): For instance, they would say if our students are falling back, that is because of the environment.



Prabhupāda: They are not falling back. Some of them (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Some of them...



Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct) anyway.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that ideally, if our environment was conditioned in such a way that they were rewarded for doing good things and punished for doing bad things, that they would not go away.



Prabhupāda: They would be punished, but they don't care for punishment. Just like it says in the lawbook that if you steal, you'll be arrested, but they don't care for your lawbook, the thief. What can you do? That independence is already there. The lawbook says that if you commit theft you will be punished, and he is actually punished. But if he doesn't care for punishment, then what can you do? Punishment is already there.



Śyāmasundara: For instance, he gives an example that, let's say that in an institution there is lunch served for one hour between twelve and one, and at one o'clock the door is closed and locked, sharply. So automatically everyone who wants to come must come before one o'clock, otherwise they will be punished.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. If anyone prefers to starve, they may not come. That law will be not be obligatory to a person who prefers to starve.



Devotee: That isn't the point. The critics make difference. He says that free will can be essentially eliminated. He says you no longer have the choice to be agreeable or not agreeable.



Prabhupāda: No. That is not possible. That is another foolishness.



Devotee: Just like the child he was training, that if he ever missed a meal he would be severely punished. Then he may never want to miss a meal.



Devotee: Or he may never want to take a meal out of (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Actually, his idea is not to let them be punished but to reward.



Prabhupāda: This is the (indistinct), that the thief has learned from the lawbooks, from the religious books, that stealing is bad. If one steals he'll be punished. Because in the human society the scriptures that they have got. No scripture will say that you should steal, for example, neither the lawbook will say that you steal. So if you have heard from scriptures and from lawbooks that stealing is criminal, and by committing this sinful activity I shall be punished, and if you have seen also that anyone who has violated this law and stolen others' property has been arrested and policeman has taken him to the jail, he has seen, he has heard, he has completely experienced, but still, why does he steal? What is the answer?



Devotee: Impelled. Because (indistinct) as a human being. He has a tendency because of the four defects of a human being.



Prabhupāda: Then the question arises, how to rectify these defects?



Śyāmasundara: He says by changing the social environment. By changing the social environment.



Prabhupāda: But he cannot do.



Devotee: But in my experience changing the social environment...



Prabhupāda: The social environment is already there, but still you will be punished.



Śyāmasundara: But his idea is that if you reward them for not stealing that they will not steal. If you reward them sufficiently.



Prabhupāda: First of all let him come to the point of not stealing. Then you will be all right. (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: But if you pay him more, then he won't steal.



Prabhupāda: That you cannot. That you cannot. That is not possible.



Atreya Ṛṣi: The reward and punishment system, Prabhupāda, is motivational. It's not that you pay him more and you pay him less or you punish him. The thing is, he says that...



Prabhupāda: No, no. Who pays? Suppose I am going to steal and get one dollar. And if you pay me three dollars, then I may not steal. Then next point will be when there will be four dollars, I'm going to steal.



Atreya Ṛṣi: No. He is not going to pay you three and four dollars. What he is suggesting is that the reason one steals is not so much that... There are other reasons, like he likes to break the law because he is angry at the law.



Prabhupāda: Therefore the person, why he likes to break the law? That is the question.



Atreya Ṛṣi: That is a good question. Because he is angry or he thinks that his friends would appreciate him more, and he thinks that his friends are more important. That is why he thinks that if you change the social environment then the reward would come...



Prabhupāda: How you can change the social environment?



Śyāmasundara: Those rewards are quantitative. Just like the pigeon gets a certain number of kernels of corn.



Atreya Ṛṣi: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: But how do you know? You don't know what he said. Listen to what he said. He said that each time that a criminal avoids doing bad, he is given some advantage, some material advantage.



Devotee: So we understand that material advantage isn't satisfying.



Śyāmasundara: That is the difference between the pigeons and the man. The pigeons are satisfied with a few kernels of corn. They don't want more than they can eat. But a man wants more and more and more.



*Devotee: In the Bhagavad*-gītā Arjuna asks the same question.



*Prabhupāda: So this is the important point, that what you are thinking rewarding, that is not. He will think it is insignificant. So what (indistinct). If you give me five dollars, if I steal I will get twenty*-five dollars. Why shall I accept your reward?



Śyāmasundara: So what about if I don't steal, my friends will like me. If I do steal, my friends will hate me.



Prabhupāda: But if you have got for friends only thieves, then who will object? "Oh, you are very nice, you are very expert." Why should you mix with such friends? (indistinct) Birds of the same feather flock together.



Śyāmasundara: He says there are three things that this society has that keeps people from disobeying, that is God...



Prabhupāda: This is all speculation. It has no meaning.



Śyāmasundara: ...God, the police, and what other people will think.



Prabhupāda: But if you have no idea of God, what is God, and why am I expecting that you will fear God? You do not know what is God, and you are talking of God.



Devotee: So he says social environment in the highest essence that has to lead to controlling nature.



*Prabhupāda: Here the thing is that these are all childish suppositions. The real thing is that he should be educated. He should be educated. This should be done. He should be educated from the very beginning that "You are not this body." This is the beginning of real religion. He is talking this way and that. Education is required. Without education these things cannot be taught*-by rewarding, by this way, by that way, by machine... It is all nonsense, everything. The first education is that every children should be taught from the very beginning that "You are not this body," and he should be taught the nature of the soul. Then he will come to the Supreme Soul. Then he will gradually come to the relationship between the Supreme Soul and the individual soul. And when he develops love for the Supreme Soul he will not violate the order of the Supreme. So that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Śyāmasundara: Like Sarasvatī. She thinks Kṛṣṇa lives in her heart, and she's always thinking of that.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. She is hearing, she is being educated, and that fact she is now feeling. Similarly, if we educate all our children in that way, they will be nicely grown*-up children.



Śyāmasundara: There is an interesting comparison to be made. They have tried to set up a community along this philosophy just near our New Vrindaban. This is the place, in the hills of Virginia, and some of the... It's interesting to see what their code is compared to ours. Their code is that all are entitled to the same privileges, advantages and respect. Private property is forbidden except for such things as books and clothes, and even then there is community clothing which is all shared. No one is allowed to boast of an individual accomplishment or to gossip or to have any negative speech or to be intolerant of any other's beliefs.



Prabhupāda: You cannot be. It is simply dream. If you simply dream, it will be never be fruitful. But our philosophy is that everyone is thinking as servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we have no competition. We want to serve Kṛṣṇa center.



Śyāmasundara: He says that's the main difficulty. He says there is still competition going on.



Prabhupāda: So much more, because he has not changed the mind. The mind is thinking how to become master. So as soon as you want to become master, I want to become master, he wants to, there must be some... But our teaching is different. We become servant, servant of Kṛṣṇa. Even there is competition, but that competition is center in Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: Their process is if someone obeys these laws, he is reinforced. That means they'll put a sign up saying "So and so clean..."



*Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Putting signboard. That is just... Caitanya Mahāprabhu's formula: ceto*-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart. That is the process. By putting signboard, philosophy cannot be learned. That is no good.



Śyāmasundara: They put a sign that "So and so cleaned this room today. He is a good boy."



Prabhupāda: You will clean automatically like that, with clean heart.



Devotee: That is the difference.



Śyāmasundara: Another thing is that they reject the idea of modesty and sin. They say that sex is all right. It is a pleasant pastime like anything else. Freedom of sex life.



Prabhupāda: Just like animals. Sex life like animals.



Śyāmasundara: They said.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) say that. (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: They do not reinforce the sin of sex life.



Prabhupāda: Sex life, we don't say it is sin, but there is rules and regulations of sex life.



Śyāmasundara: However, they have contraceptive methods, because to bring children into the equation at this time is not good.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is the difficulty, that these people are coming as philosophers teaching. Rascals. That is the difficulty with the present society. (indistinct) Dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. They are taking the position of teacher. That is the defect. We don't take (indistinct) like that. Dogs, hogs, we cannot accept.



Śyāmasundara: They are making life into an equation, like a mathematical formula. Competing like that. But it doesn't work.



Prabhupāda: It will not work.



*Devotee: It says he has a seventy*-percent turnover. That means that people get disgusted and leave, seventy percent of them every year.



Prabhupāda: Leave? Why?



Śyāmasundara: Because it says that those who are more competent, they still expect special recognition for their talent, and so they make this demand that we cannot reinforce that kind of behavior. So we deny them and then we go away.



Devotee: So it seems that the whole philosophy (indistinct) and then in the course of there, the whole material world is attached to sex life, so that the whole thing is that all the philosophies that they are inventing are so that they may have liberty to think that they are free and that they are (indistinct). That is all.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: That is their whole thing. All their philosophy tries to have good sex life so that they don't have to think that they will be punished. So if I can have this freedom then I am right.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The real point is sense gratification. Freedom of sense gratification. That is their point. But these fools, they do not know that by sense gratification you are entangling yourself in repetition of birth and death.



*Śyāmasundara: So Skinner nonetheless allows himself some relaxation. He drinks vodka and tonic in the late afternoon (laughter) and sees an occasional movie. He reads George Simon detective novels once in awhile and enjoys the company of friends. He has two children and his grandchildren. There is a note from his diary: "Sun streams in (indistinct) room. My hi*-fi is midway through the first act of Tristan and Isolde. A very pleasant environment. A man would be a fool not to enjoy himself in it. In a moment I will work on a manuscript which may help mankind. So my life is not only pleasant; it is earned or deserved. And yet, yet, I am unhappy."



Prabhupāda: In that sense he is a truthful man. Yes. Truthful.



Śyāmasundara: He wants to... He is trying to understand.



Prabhupāda: He cannot. That is not the way of understanding. The Vedic way is that you first approach a guru. That is the Vedic way. He cannot personally search for the truth. That is not possible. (end)





MARX.SYA



Karl Marx



(tape audio quality extremely poor)



Prabhupāda: and as soon as they get opportunity to become (indistinct), by taking others' blood. Unless you feel in your heart (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that only the workers are entitled to the surplus value of the product (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: But actually the workers (indistinct) no longer work (indistinct). Just like the (indistinct). He was a worker in the mill. He was working, and as soon as he gets some money he sits down as a proprietor of the mill and after, he takes advantage of working others. Because (indistinct) happened and becomes capitalist. There are many instances. Just like in your country, Ford, he was some (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: Yes. But he got the opportunity to become capitalist. And there are so many in our country also (indistinct) that I was a (indistinct) I was out getting money, I was starving, and now I have become first*-class. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes. They get credit. I recall one book, in Mathura one Mr. (indistinct), he was begging his brother, he became a very businessman, so he wrote his history, that I was begging now I am sitting [break] like that. That's all. So, the theory(?) that my propensity is there, that as soon as I get the opportunity I suck the blood of others and become fat. So unless he changes mentality, there is no question of changing capitalist or communist or this or that. It is all useless.



Śyāmasundara: So shall we stop for today or...?



Devotee: Yes, continue tomorrow.



Śyāmasundara: We still have a few more of Marx.



Devotee: We can do it tomorrow. Then we'll do Lenin tomorrow. [break] So, today we will continue with Marx.



Prabhupāda: Marx? Not yet finished?



Śyāmasundara: No.



Prabhupāda: Go on.



Śyāmasundara: He says that since capital is unnecessary for production, that the capitalists should be overthrown violently and the workers of the world should unite and overthrow the capitalists.



*Prabhupāda: But the difficulty is*-that we have already discussed (indistinct), today I am (indistinct), tomorrow I am capitalist. Because my tendency is, as soon as I get some money, I shall become master. That is the tendency. That we have already discussed. Today one man is very poor man, so he is in favor of his brothers who are poor, working, but as soon as he gets a little money, immediately he becomes the capitalist. Then he is imitating the same way as the capitalist.



Śyāmasundara: Suppose there is a social system where everyone gets the same amount, no one gets excess.



Prabhupāda: That is simply theory, that is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: But that's what happens in Russia. The managers, they don't get much more than the workers, so that everyone only can have a certain income. Just like Himavati's relatives,they sent their relatives in Russia some gifts for Christmas. The relatives sold the gifts and used the money to buy wood to add a room to their house, and because of that they were greatly punished, severely punished, by the state. But they should have given that money to others, they should have distributed it equally, that was the state's theory because anything that I use for my own benefit is wrong.



Prabhupāda: So my tendency is to (consider) everything as my own, but by the taking of the state I am forced to avoid(?). So how long will this work? By force how you can change one's mind? It is not possible. Therefore we say these things are only nonsense proposition. It will never happen because anyone who is in this material world, he has the prime tendency that I shall become the Lord. (indistinct) pratiṣṭhā. The material world means everyone is seeking after some profit, everyone is seeking after some adoration, and everyone is seeking, I mean to say, some position. This is the material world. So, if everyone, seeks profit, adoration and position, so how you can make equal by force?



Śyāmasundara: The communists have played upon this tendency and so the worker who produces more, he gets glorified by the state. He produces more units at his factory than the others, then he gets a small bonus.



Prabhupāda: Why he should get bonus?



Śyāmasundara: In order to, incentive, incentive bonus.



Prabhupāda: That means that his tendency is to lord it over, and that he is being bribed. He wants some profit, "All right, I give you some bonus. This Russian communist idea is very good provided the citizens do not want any profit but that is not possible. Everyone wants profit. So how by law, by force, you can take it? It is not possible. The same proposition: that in the winter season the bugs cannot get blood, cannot come out due to the serious cold so they become dried up. Their skin practically dries, dries completely. There is no blood. That is (indistinct). But as soon as the bug gets opportunity, in the summer season, he can come out, immediately he bites somebody and sucks all the blood.



Śyāmasundara: So this is an example of the people in Russia who are forced by the state not to take profit.



Prabhupāda: Yes, but as soon as there is opportunity, they will take it. Because that is the (indistinct). As soon as he got some (indistinct), because it is mine, and he sold it and he utilized it for the purpose. So this is the psychological fact that everyone is trying to get some profit. By force you can make him not to take profit, but that is not possible. As soon as there is profit (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: So Karl Marx made a manifesto called the Communist Manifesto which lists ten points for social reform. Should we read them, (indistinct).



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: The first one is the abolition of property and land and application of all rent from land to public purposes. In other words abolition of private property, all property becomes public. The second point is a heavy income tax, no, progressive income tax, so if you make more, you have to pay more. The abolition of all rights of inheritance.



*Prabhupāda: The, this thing is not only in Russia, this is going on in other countries. So, people have been taught not to keep accounts. All these big, big business men they don't keep accounts, so there is no question of income tax. Suppose if I want to purchase from you something. No cash memo, no account. I give you money, cash, I take goods, I sell it, no account, then I cash from my (indistinct). That's all. But provided I have my right books, then these things will be applicable*-income tax. Just like in our Indian system, there small broker, he has no book; nothing of the sort. He is purchasing one bag or two bags of rice, he is selling, that's all. He does not keep accounts. So as soon as... The whole tendency is, that I want profit. If the government (indistinct), somehow or other, (indistinct), I will get my profit but I will not show government how much profit I am making. He may propose all these nice things according to his philosophy but he cannot change the mind of the people. Therefore all these proposal will be futile. Simply waste of time, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the mind of people can be changed because the conditions...



*Prabhupāda: But not in that way, by force. That is not possible. You cannot change the mind even of a child by force, and what to speak of elderly man, educated man. Is it not so? Mind can be changed by our process: ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Otherwise it is not. These things will be made (indistinct) complete, even in the ordinary position. Their utopia*-it is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: He also wants to abolish all inheritance rights, all rights of inheritance.



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense proposal, because everyone's tendency is to give money to his children. That is the law everywhere. I have got some affection for my children. I want to give something to my children. So how you can stop this (indistinct). They are proposing all impractical.



Śyāmasundara: They are practicing this in Russia. There is no inheritance. There is no...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct), we have seen Russia is not happy. Russia is not happy and they are simply waiting for another opportunity, another revolution. (indistinct) this boy (indistinct), he is not happy. Similarly we can study. Just like when there is rice boiling you take one grain of rice and press it in your finger. If it is soft, then you can understand the whole rice is boiled. So we can understand the position of Russia from the sample, that boy. We haven't got to study more. And we could get some idea by talking with that professor that, how much foolish he is. He says that after death everything is finished. And he is passing on as a big professor, Indian department, Indology or something. So, if his knowledge is like that, if the sample of the citizen is like that boy, then what is their position? They may theorize so many things. So far as we are concerned, foreigners, we could not get even food to our satisfaction. There is no (indistinct) vegetables, no fruits, milk was (indistinct), no rice. That Madrasi gentleman, if he would not have contributed some dahl and rice and the..., then practically we would have starved.



Śyāmasundara: The rice from Korea was like BB's, small pellets. We bought some rice.



Prabhupāda: Where?



Śyāmasundara: It was from North Korea, the rice we bought in Moscow. It was so tough(?).



Prabhupāda: Life is very difficult there. You can simply eat meat, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: And liquor.



Prabhupāda: Liquor, that's all. And what they are drinking on the road? You did not see?



Śyāmasundara: I think it was some kind of wine, or...



Prabhupāda: Maybe.



Śyāmasundara: ...liquor.



Prabhupāda: But these things were almost in every road. People were drinking (indistinct), students and drinking.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, I remember, yes, it was, that was soft drinks, soft drinks.



Prabhupāda: Another thing, that shopping is so much troublesome.



Śyāmasundara: Telephone.



Prabhupāda: Who is calling? (indistinct). (indistinct) has said that...



*Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) these people were descendents of warrior class, kṣatriya class, so they are naturally inclined to those things, meat*-eating.



*Prabhupāda: No, the warrior class are not like that, kṣatriya. Not that they are addicted. These are caṇḍālas. They are called caṇḍālas. Caṇḍālas, the dog eaters, the hog*-eaters. In India they are sweeper class. Mlecchas (?). (indistinct). She comes from that family. Now (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Anyway, all property, all money, capital, communications, transport everything should be brought into central, centralize, centralized in the hands of the state.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So, what profit will be (indistinct), the member in the central, they will exploit, just like Krushchev was doing, and he was (indistinct). So, our diagnosis is that tendency is there. Unless you reform that tendency, these things will be bogus. Now Russia, just according to Marx theory, they are doing that, but (indistinct) utilize it. How you shall stop this mentality? What is that program?



Śyāmasundara: Their program is first you change the social conditions then the mentality will change.



Prabhupāda:Impossible. It will simply react and there will be another revolution.



Śyāmasundara: So first you have to change the mentality and then the social structure will change.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless I am trained up to think that I do not possess anything, everything belongs to the State... But it is very difficult to change. Simply nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: But they think like that.



Prabhupāda: They think but (indistinct) utopian, that is another thing. But, so...



Śyāmasundara: They're all... Yes, this is an example. There was one woman, who was in charge of the, a maid in that hotel. Although she must have known from childhood that that hotel belongs to the state, the foodstuff belongs to the state, everything belongs to the state, still she had proprietorship, false proprietorship over her kitchen, that kitchen. She would not allow us into that kitchen.



Prabhupāda: Just see.



*Śyāmasundara: Even though it was not hers*-we had every right to use it as much as her, she would not allow it.



Prabhupāda: Just see. In Russia. Yes. In the hotel. And there were some quarrels.



Śyāmasundara: Quarrels. She wanted the rights to that stove.



Prabhupāda: So how you can change it? Simply theorizing will not serve(?).



Devotee: In Russia when they find someone who is deviating like that they send them to Siberia. So their process of checking them is to punish them.



Prabhupāda: But there... Everything is going on simply on threatening. You see there is no heart to heart cooperation(?). Therefore everyone we saw, they were morose.



Śyāmasundara: Slogans. They simply speak slogans. Propaganda.



*Prabhupāda: There is no cooperation. In this way, finally the people will non*-cooperate and there will be revolution. Just like Gandhi's noncooperation. That stage will come. Nobody will cooperate with them. So these are foolish theories. It has no practical value.



Śyāmasundara: So their idea about... It says that all events are seen as physical reactions aimed at satisfying economic and material needs of mankind. In other words everything that happens historically is seen as a result of economic and material needs required.



*Prabhupāda: That is a fact. I have already explained. Because I want to make profit, you want to make profit, so as soon as there will be check in my profit*-making or your profit-making, then we shall fight. The reason is that I want to make profit, you want to make profit, nobody is prepared to sacrifice profit. So as soon as our interests clash there is fight.



Śyāmasundara: So the sad truth is that the whole world is revolving on the principle of economic desire.



Prabhupāda: Yes economic desire. Profit, that is stated in the śāstras, (indistinct) pratiṣṭhā. (indistinct) means profit. (indistinct) means... Why I want profit? Because if I have got money, then people will adore me (and) say (to me), "You are God. You are everything." (indistinct) Give me some (indistinct). Just like the beggars, (indistinct) their blessing, you become king, you will be so on and so on and so on, you are so great. In this way he thinks, "Oh I am great. All right, there." He becomes immediately sophisticated, "Oh I am so great. All right, there." This is there. He flatters.



Śyāmasundara: He says that man's nature is the result of historical forces. Therefore ideas change according to material conditions. In other words...



Prabhupāda: This ideas cannot change, these basic ideas, that I want some property, I want some adoration and I want some position. This will never change. These rascals, they do not know the basic principles of human psychology.



Śyāmasundara: Their philosophy is gross materialism. They believe everything in science matters.



Prabhupāda: Superficial, no depth of knowledge.



Śyāmasundara: So they even (indistinct) material in factors of clothing, matter (indistinct). It was his idea that matter changes through history according to economic development, economic changes.



Prabhupāda: We take our knowledge from authority. Just like this (indistinct) pratiṣṭhā. We take it from authority. So this is the science. Everyone is after some profit, some adoration and some position.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore these things have been forbidden for persons who are advanced in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because if you have got all these material desires, then you cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. These are called anyābhila, desiring something for material profit. So, bhakti is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam, one must be completely free from all these desires, material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna*-karmādy anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], without any aspiration for resultant action of knowledge and karma. Knowledge means, just like the jñānīs, they are cultivating knowledge, but their aim is how to become one with God. That is their aim. That means here he says to get a position to his satisfaction, now he wants to get the position of God. Let us say I am superficially (indistinct) that he is a sannyāsī, he does not possess anything but by his sacrificing all position it this world he wants to get possession of the Supreme Lord. He is (indistinct) that I have given up everything but I want to (indistinct) of your (indistinct). So this is going on. (indistinct) vairāgya. (indistinct) vairāgya.



Śyāmasundara: He has another slogan that "Human effort has no true reality." In other words...



Prabhupāda: Because does not know what is reality. He is a fool.



Śyāmasundara: Well he says that man's reality or man's nature changes through history according to material conditions.



Prabhupāda: Well that is the way of..., everything is changing. This tree is changing daily, your body is changing, that is not a very high philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that if you mold...



Prabhupāda: Jagat. Jagat means change. Jagat. (indistinct) jagat, everything is changing. Just like wind(?), time and tide. So that is not a very unique proposal. It is the nature's way, it is going on. And therefore I say this theory, this Marx theory, it is all changeable(?). It will not stay.



Śyāmasundara: Does this mean that man's nature, there is no fundamental nature that a man's reality is...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is spiritual nature. That is spiritual nature. We are teaching people to come to that standard, spiritual nature which will never change. Just like we are trying to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is not (indistinct). We are serving Kṛṣṇa and when we go to Vaikuntha, we serve Kṛṣṇa. That which is called nitya. Nitya means eternal. Nitya*-yukta upāsate. Bhagavad-gītā, eternally engaged in the service of the Lord. Not like Māyāvādī. Māyāvādī philosophers, they will say that "Let me serve Kṛṣṇa now. As soon as I become liberated, I become God. I become God." This is another bluff. Just like I am serving you to take your favor and as soon as I get opportunity I ride upon you. You see? Now,



Śyāmasundara, (indistinct). This is Māyāvāda theory.



Śyāmasundara: They want to become...



*Prabhupāda: One. One with God. That means (indistinct). Here, he could not enjoy. There are so many impediments. Therefore brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. This is all mithyā. So I become one with Brahman. This is jñānī. And karma means that I work hard, I get some result, and I enjoy. Karma*-phala. But bhakti means that one should be completely free from all these desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. One should not be covered with the results of jñāna and karma. Then what is bhakti? Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuṣīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Simply to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness if favor of Kṛṣṇa. Not in my favor. So long you think anything in your favor, that is not bhakti. So where is this mentality? You give up Kṛṣṇa, you replace Kṛṣṇa with the state, that how you can get your mentality, nothing in my favor, everything in favor of the state. It is impossible, but these rascals try. (indistinct) simply (indistinct). Just like Stalin. He got the position and as soon as he found somebody that is not in his favor, then immediately cut his throat. The same, the disease is there, that I want everything in my favor and I cover it by some illusion. So how you can be successful?



Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that human nature has no reality of it's own, that it's a product of the material environment so that if you put a man in a factory...



Prabhupāda: So if it has no reality, why they are proposing something nonsense as real, if there is no reality?



Śyāmasundara: Well their idea is that if you put a man in a factory and you get him to identify with the state, the production, the scientific achievement, say...



Prabhupāda: That cannot be, that is our philosophy. Because he has got the basic disease. He is saying that I am working so hard, but the profit is not coming to me, he will be immediately slackened. Just like there is a proverb, proprietorship turns sand into gold. But as soon there is lacking of the sense that I am not proprietor, the gold becomes sand. That is position of Russia. They are not happy, they are not rich, in comparison to other European countries. Of course, no European country is as good, or as rich as America, that is a fact. That I have practically seen. But still, in Russia, they are poorer than other countries.



Śyāmasundara: One of their methods is to constantly whip the people with the idea that there may be war at any moment so the people are always thinking, "We must protect our country, we must protect our country," so they work.



Prabhupāda: But when they lose interest in the country on the basis of this basical idea, that I cannot make any profit, I have no proprietorship, then what interest I have got in this country?



Śyāmasundara: So only the negative, the negative stress forces them to work.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Your home may be in danger, your family may be lost if you don't work.



Prabhupāda: But if I work, what do I get. I work or not work, I get the same thing. Where is my incentive? Marshall's theory is that economic development is based on family affection.



Śyāmasundara: Is it?



Prabhupāda: Yes. So if I cannot give good food, good dress to my family... The same thing, I am working so hard, another man is working as laborer, I am scientist so my wife and children with the same dress and he is this, so I am losing my interest. And that is the position (indistinct). They are all impractical.



Śyāmasundara: He says that industrial and scientific work is the highest point of activity.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but the... Unless the scientist and the industrialist get sufficient profit for himself, he will be reluctant to work for the state.



*Śyāmasundara: Their goal is the production of material goods for the enhancement of human well*-being.



*Prabhupāda: The human well*-being means if you don't agree to me, I cut your throat, that's all. This is (indistinct). I am thinking in my way: human well being. Just like Stalin, he was thinking in his own way, human well-being, but anyone who disagrees with him, cut his throat. This is (indistinct). Lenin also (indistinct) like that.



*Śyāmasundara: Well*-being is relative.



*Prabhupāda: Just like he killed all the royal family. So this killing, they will say it is well-being of the (indistinct). So this is not well*-being for the royal family. But they theorized, it is well-being.



*Śyāmasundara: So they say the well*-being for the most people. If something has to be sacrificed for that then it is all right.



Prabhupāda: So that everyone thinks. Everyone says, but these are also incorrect propositions. So far Russia is concerned, we have seen practically, these things are not being applied. Like, at least we have seen, that in Moscow, all big, big buildings, they are not recent buildings, they are old, damaged buildings, and (indistinct). So that means their economic condition is not so sound. The old buildings are not very nicely renovated. So what is that building we we are going inside, getting out from the National Hotel? There was a big building, some historical building?



Śyāmasundara: Kremlin?



Prabhupāda: Library or something?



Śyāmasundara: Lenin's... Oh, the one with the round turret?



Prabhupāda: No, no, just like our hotel was there, and (indistinct) after a few steps there was a big building.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, the state planning?



Prabhupāda: Maybe.



Śyāmasundara: State planning commision.



Prabhupāda: That is a very old building; that is not recent building. So similarly all the buildings (indistinct), they are not recent buildings.



Śyāmasundara: The only fairly recent building was the university. It has a big, big, big, big building.



Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, that may be, that was not very...



Śyāmasundara: Not very new.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) not very huge. That is not very extraordinary.



Śyāmasundara: Not compared to New York City.



Prabhupāda: No, not...



*Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that well*-being is measured by how many telephones there are, how many refigerators, how many...



Prabhupāda: That they haven't got. There is no sufficient motor car. He knows when we asked Professor Kotovsky for call taxi. He said, "Oh this is Moscow, it is very,difficult." Do you remember that?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Do you remember? He gave us direction: "If you kindly go in this way, in this way..."



Śyāmasundara: Take the bus.



Prabhupāda: Not if you can reach sooner, (indistinct) waiting for taxi. Do you remember?



Śyāmasundara: Yes, I remember.



Prabhupāda: And we did it. We walked too. He gave us direction, "You go in this way, this way, then you will go to your hotel sooner than we wait for a taxi." So, either there is no sufficient taxi, (indistinct) company, they do not get profit, or there is no sufficient demand. People have no sufficient income. That is the... In your country as soon as you want a taxi, you get it. Simply call, "I want a taxi." The same thing India, immediately taxi is (indistinct) go. In Boston I was calling, "Simply send taxi." You have seen? You know better than me, that there is telephone in the taxi.



Śyāmasundara: In the taxi, yes.



Prabhupāda: And they are directing can you go this side, can you go this side, so as soon as he finds that where he is, from that place the taxi is nearer; he says, "Yes, I can go." So immediately his number is (indistinct) and he'll immediately inform the taxi stand. This is the system. So, where is that system? (indistinct) European country, they are so proud of their philosophy and people are not getting their goods, nice (indistinct). There are lines, big lines for purchasing things and for foreigners you are asked, "What is your citizenship." There is fight, which foreigner is here. (indistinct) that boy related that he cannot go out (indistinct). People are not happy, that's a fact.



Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that religion is an illusion and it must be condemned.



Prabhupāda: That's right, but his theory, he is become a nuisance now. (indistinct) but his philosophy is becoming illusion. That's a fact.



Śyāmasundara: In other words its not being practiced.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Within how many years? The revolution was in 1917.



Śyāmasundara: About a hundred years.



Prabhupāda: No hundred.



Śyāmasundara: Fifty.



Prabhupāda: Fifty. So within fifty years his philosophy is (indistinct). And in India, we do not know when religion began. You say Brahmā. So Brahmā's twelve hours... Twelve hours (indistinct) cannot calculate. So religion, our this Vedic religion is there since so many long years and instead of being devastated by the foreigner for the last two thousand years, still the religion, the system of religion, is running. It is not illusion, at least for India.



Śyāmasundara: I'll read his famous statement about religion. He says, "Religion is the (indistinct) of the oppressed (indistinct), the heart of the heartless world, just as it is the spirit of the spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."



Prabhupāda: That's right, but the he does not know what is religion. His definition (indistinct) why he accepts the Vedic way; *nobody knows what is religion. Our Vedic version is religion is the code given by God. So if God is fact then His law is also fact, it is not illusion. Just like Kṛṣṇa giving religion. There is (indistinct), sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], to surrender unto God. This is religion.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that everything is produced from economic struggle. So that religion is like a police force, and it is invented by the bourgeois or the capitalist as a technique to dissuade the masses from revolting by promising them a better existence, or a happier existence after death so that they can be...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) we are obliged to his proposal now. He has created a philosophy, which is being enforced by killing, by threatening.



Śyāmasundara: And he promises them a better future.



Prabhupāda: That's right.



Śyāmasundara: In the future it will be better.



Prabhupāda: So, he is doing (indistinct) more than the (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Yes, exactly. So his is a religion also. His philosophy is like a religion.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) he condemns.



Prabhupāda: Religion means (indistinct) he cannot give up, that is religion.



Śyāmasundara: He thinks everything can be changed, that nothing is permanent.



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) our proposition, religion means dharma, the (indistinct) which you cannot give up. (indistinct) Just like I am standing on this floor. It is not possible to stand without this floor. I cannot say that I can stand without floor.



Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)



*Prabhupāda: (indistinct) and it is not possible. Similarly, one cannot give up his religion. And what is that religion? That religion is service. If that is religion, then he wants to give service to the humanity by his proposition, and that is his religion. Why he is giving this philosophy, writing this book? He wants to give some service to the humanity. That is (the) idea. So everyone is trying to give some service. The father is trying to give some service (to) the family, the statesman is trying to give some service to his country. (indistinct) Then he is also trying to give some service to the whole humanity. So this service spirit is always there. Either you become a Karl Marx, or you become Stalin, or you become Gandhi, or you become whatever you may be, the service spirit is there. In the family also, the father wants to give service. In state also, the prime minister wants to give some service. So this service spirit will be there. Now, we are giving service to so many things, and we are becoming confused and (indistinct). Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that you give up all other service, give Me service, I will (indistinct). You cannot remain without giving service. That's a fact. Either you give service to your country or to your family or even you have to give service to a dog. That you cannot do. Therefore the service is not... You may be a Hindu,you may be a Muslim, you may be anything, but that service spirit is there. And that service spirit is religion. But actually, by rendering service to so many objectives, we are frustrated. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [Bg. 18.66], you give service to Me and you'll be (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: The Communists, and even to a certain extent the capitalists, believe that service for the production of goods is the only real service. So they condemn us because we are not adding anything to production. We are not working, we are not building factories. So they condemn us.



*Prabhupāda: How they can condemn? We are giving service to the humanity for better knowledge. Then high*-court judge, he is not producing any grain in the field, so he is not giving any service? He is sitting on the chair and getting(?) five thousand, ten thousand (indistinct). You can say, "Oh, he is not giving any service, he is simply sitting in the chair."



Śyāmasundara: In one way he is, because he is enforcing the law that helps the...



Prabhupāda: What it may be, personally, if you simply think that this man comes in the office and sits down in the chair for three hours and he draws salary of six thousand.



Śyāmasundara: He protects my property though.



Prabhupāda: That means not that everyone has to work in the factory to produce.



Śyāmasundara: But he protects what I produce.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. That means brain is required how to give protection. So that is also service. But his theory is unless you give your manual labor in the factory or in the field, you are not doing service. He would simply give credit to the coolies and workers, that's all. But because his basic principle is coolie, coolie philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: Peasants, they're called.



Prabhupāda: That's it.



Indian man: Some time one thing happened...



Prabhupāda: Eh?



Indian man: One Marwari first of all thought that his manager was getting two thousand rupees and doing nothing so he said, "I will do all the manager's work," and he (indistinct) scientist, engineer like. So he saved the two thousand rupees a month. After a couple of months that (indistinct) and that nobody could get right. And that man was (indistinct). Then he told that Marwari that you were giving me three thousand(indistinct).



Prabhupāda: There is a story that one king, he had ministers, a prime minister, so other salaried workers complained, "Sir, we are actually working. This minister is giving nothing, you are giving him so much salary. We are so (indistinct). So, "Oh, all right." So he called the minister, and brought one elephant. (indistinct), "Please immediately take this elephant and let me know what is the weight. Take this elephant. Weigh him." So they went to... All market, they went to find out a scale, how to weigh this. Where is the scale for weighing an elephant? So they could not do anything. They came back. "What happened?" "Sir, we could not get such a scale." "Oh, you could not weigh? All right. Minister, will you kindly weigh this elephant?" "Yes, sir." "All right, take it." So within six minutes he said, "It is twenty mounds," and like that. You see? So they were standing. They were surprised: "How is that? Within some minutes he came back and he said the exact weight." So king asked that "How did you weigh? Did you get some very big scale?" "No sir. It is not possible to weigh the elephant in the scale. Very difficult." "Then how did you weigh?" "Yes, I took it in a boat. I got it on the boat. I saw the water mark, and I marked it, and then, after getting down the elephant, I put weight on it. So when it came to that water mark, I understood." So the king said, "Now you see the difference?" They agreed, "Yes." Buddhir yasya bālaṁ tasya nirbuddhes tu kuto bālam: "One who has got intelligence, he has got strength, and one who has got no intelligence, rascal fool, what strength there is?" These people are like that, rascal fools. We don't take advice from them. We take advice from Kṛṣṇa or His representative.



Śyāmasundara: So religion is not just a police force for keeping people in illusion.



Prabhupāda: He does not know what is religion. He does not know, and he is trying to define religion. He does not know. I have defined already religion. Religion is the service spirit. That is religion. Now, real religion is the service... Everyone is engaged in giving service, but he does not know where his service will be successful. That he does not know. Therefore Kṛṣṇa gives us indication that "You serve Me and your service spirit will be successful." That is religion.



Indian man: Sir, we see that Dr. Stanley Johnson... He is my friend. He said he was traveling in Moscow. One lady got in the train, and she told him, "You look religious. You must very rich also." No. "Sir, you look religious, so you must be very rich." He said, "Why? Why do I look rich?" Because they have the idea that only rich men can think of religion.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That's their whole idea.



Prabhupāda: That means foolish, all set of foolish rascals, that's all. From his talking we can understand. He is the leader. So he is a big foolish man, and his followers must be all fools. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. He said that religion is made up by the capitalists to keep the...



*Prabhupāda: That means he does not know religion, what is religion, and he wants to define religion. What a foolish man he is. He does not know what is the meaning of religion. Religion means which you cannot change. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Yes. Even up to this day, because India is standing on religion, although it is (indistinct), it is all broken, still, all over the world-I have traveled*-they are adoring India.



Śyāmasundara: But their explanation is that because everyone is so poor in India that they rely on religion for condolence.



Prabhupāda: But still, people come from other countries to learn religion here. And one Chinese writer, I have seen his book. He plainly writes that "If you want to study religion, it is India."



Śyāmasundara: But more people go from India there to learn science.



Indian man: No, no.



Prabhupāda: No. That is another thing, material science. Material science. But when people come from West to India, they do not come here to learn material science. They come here to understand what is God, these things.



Indian man: Not only that, you know. Gandhi told the same thing. He said when Kanjulatem(?) went to London, he was told that "Your religion is ancient. Why did you not come to teach us?" He said, "Whom to teach? Your fathers and grandfathers were jumping off trees."



Prabhupāda: That's it. Darwin's theory.



Indian man: He said, "Whom to come and teach? You were not there."



Prabhupāda: (laughs) Very good answer. Yes, Darwin says that all monkeys. "So you are monkey. How to teach you?" It is a very good answer, yes.



Śyāmasundara: So he said that God does not create man, that man creates God.



Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. He is a nonsense rascal. That is being proved by his talks. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. You cannot understand a rascal fool unless he talks. Now he is talking. And sooner I did not know that he is so fool, but I can understand now he is a great fool. This is the test. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. Mūrkha, you can... A mūrkha can dress himself very nicely, like gentleman sitting amongst the gentlemen, but a learned man and a fool will be understood as soon as he speaks. As soon as talks like a foolish man, one can understand, "Oh, he is a rascal." And as soon as one speaks great subject matter, then one can understand, "Oh, he is learned." So by his talking, now we can understand he is a great fool.



Śyāmasundara: So his follower was Nikolai Lenin. Mostly he reinforced all of Marx's ideas, but he added a few touches of his own. One is that revolution is fundamental, that history...



Prabhupāda: There were so many revolutions. It is not that they have made revolution. There were other revolutions, especially in Europe, the French Revolution. There were so many revolutions.



Śyāmasundara: He studied the revolutions, and he said that history moves in leaps and progresses toward the Communist leap. So he wants to make a leap into the dictatorship of the proletariat, and this he calls the final stage of development of history.



Prabhupāda: No. We can say, and they may note it also, that after this, the Bolshevik Revolution, there will be many other revolutions, many other revolutions, because so long people will live on the mental plane there will be only revolution. That's all. Our proposition is, "Give up this mental concoction. Come to the right point. And that is spiritual platform." If one comes to that spiritual platform, that is... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: [Cc. Madhya 22.42] "No more revolution. I am completely satisfied because I have now seen You." So unless one comes to God, the revolution will go on. Rather, this is final revolution. We don't say final revolution, but... We don't expect that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be taken by everyone, but within this material world the revolution will repeat unless one comes to God consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: The Hare Kṛṣṇa revolution.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: He said that...



*Prabhupāda: Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. That is the Vedic injunction, that people are searching after knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, so when one understands the Absolute Truth, then he understands everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. And Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ svārtha*-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: [SB 7.5.31] "They are trying to approach the objective, but they do not know the objective is Viṣṇu." Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ: "They are simply trying to adjust by so many revolutions, these material things." But he has no knowledge that he is spiritual being. Unless he goes back to the spiritual world and associates with the supreme spirit, God, there is no question of happiness. Exactly, if you have taken a fish from the water, there is no question of happiness of this fish unless it is again thrown into the water. So we have come... We are part and parcel of the supreme spirit. We have come from the spiritual world with the mentality of enjoying this material world. So unless we divert, reverse ourself to that spiritual conclusion, we understand our spiritual position and go back to home, we go to back... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam [Bg. 15.6]. When you come to this position, that is happiness. Otherwise you go on theorizing, but one revolution will be... That is the world. "Yielding place to new. Old order changes, yielding place to new." This is revolution. So this will go on. What he is thinking now new, it will be old after some days, and another new thing will come, will be changed. So this is the order. "Old order changes, yielding place to new." Or, in other words, "History repeats itself."



Śyāmasundara: He says that this is purely the nature of matter, that there are always two conflicting properties, and that this inner impulse, this inner pulsation of opposite forces, will cause history to take leaps like you just said, from one revolution to another. But the Communist revolution he calls the final revolution because it is the perfect answer.



Prabhupāda: Yes. I can take it in this sense. If the Communist idea is spiritualized. So long the Communist idea will remain materialized, it is not final. We have got Communistic idea. Just like we believe... They believe that the state is the owner; *we believe God is the owner. So this state is a small state, Russian state. They can be satisfied, but because it is wrong application... State is not the owner. Real owner is God. So from state, when they come to the conclusion, "Not the state but God is owner," then their Communistic idea will be fulfilled. And as they say that everything must be done for the state, we are actually teaching perfect Communism. We are teaching that Kṛṣṇa is the owner. Bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the supreme enjoyer. Everything is..." Just like in our society we are doing everything for Kṛṣṇa because we know Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. Sarva-loka-maheś... He is the proprietor. So this Communistic idea is vague, but it can be perfected when they come to the conclusion, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme proprietor; He is the supreme enjoyer; *He is the supreme friend of everyone. Then the people will be happy: "Oh, we have got a friend like Kṛṣṇa." Just like Arjuna was certain that "Kṛṣṇa is my charioteer. Oh, I am victorious." And it is confirmed, yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ: [Bg. 18.78] "Where Yogeśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is there," yatra pārtho dhanur*-dharaḥ, tatra śrīr vijayo, "there victory and everything is there." So this is an idea. This idea can be welcomed provided they are prepared to replace the so-called state by God. Then it is...



Śyāmasundara: Well, that's pretty unlikely because they consider that reality is composed of what appears to our senses.



Prabhupāda: That is not reality. Then why there is revolution? If it is reality, then why it is being changed? So in this material world there is a vague idea, reality. Nothing reality. Everything false. Śaṅkarācārya therefore says, jagat mithyā: "It is false." There is no reality. What is reality? What is definition of reality?



Śyāmasundara: What appears to our senses.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Śyāmasundara: What appears to our senses.



Prabhupāda: Well, your senses are not reality.



Śyāmasundara: And economic determination.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are sensually thinking, but your senses are not reality. They are imperfect. Your eyes... You are thinking "I am seeing reality," but you are not seeing reality. Just like you see, daily seeing the sun. Really you are seeing. But you do not know what is sun. Then what is the benefit of that seeing?



Śyāmasundara: He says whatever is useful...



Prabhupāda: Useful, useful... So far you are seeing the sun, you know the sunshine is useful, the sun heat is useful. That does not mean that you have understood sun as reality. The superficial benefit you are getting. That does not mean that you know reality. Do you know? You are getting sunshine; you are utilizing it. Sun's heat, you are utilizing. Does it mean that you know really what is sun?



Śyāmasundara: He would say that the only reality instead of the sun is that the crops would grow, feed everyone.



*Prabhupāda: That's all... They are simply by*-products, simply by-products. But you do not know the reality. If you speak of reality, if you are satisfied only the by-product of the reality, then that is a different thing. But when you speak of reality it does not mean, because it appeals to your senses, therefore it is reality, because your senses are imperfect. You cannot realize anything perfectly with these defective senses.



Śyāmasundara: He says that if there is anything beyond the appearances, physical world, it is also physical, that everything is physical, everything is material.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. Physical... Even physical, you do not know. Even this physical manifestation of this universe, what do you know about this? You do not know. There are so many planets. You cannot go even in the moon planet.



Śyāmasundara: He says it's only necessary to know what applies to us, what...



Prabhupāda: Then don't talk of reality. Don't talk of reality.



Śyāmasundara: I only need to know that which is useful to me.



Prabhupāda: That use, it is for you but because your knowledge is so poor. Just like a low class man, he will think, "This police constable is government." Because he is a low class man, the police constable takes him to the custody, and he is controlled by the police cons..., so he is father and mother. But for a high personality the police constable is nothing. There are so many others. So this reality is relative according to the person. He is a man with poor fund of knowledge. Therefore immediate effective, that is reality. Just like child. He thinks a lozenges which is two cent worth, he thinks it is reality. But to his father that two cents worth lozenges... (aside:) Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. To his father, he will think, "What is this lozenges?" The child will ap... "Oh, father, it is so nice. It is heaven. It is so sweet." That means reality according to the person... So he is a man with poor fund of knowledge; therefore he is accepting reality which is giving him some immediate profit. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Just like he considers Kant's idea, "the things in themselves," to be "the things for us,"...



Prabhupāda: (aside) You can change that.



Śyāmasundara: ...instead of something existing in itself, that "everything exists for us and everything exists for my use."



Prabhupāda: Yes. The animal also thinks that "This is reality." "I have got one goat," a tiger thinks, "to eat. Oh, this is reality."



Śyāmasundara: This is just for me.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... These things are discussed in Upaniṣads. The students asks, "What is reality?" He says that "Think over." Now came, that "Eatables are reality," because he's a small child. So he says, "No, this is not reality. You think over." In this way, this way, one after, one after another, one after another, he finally came to Brahman. So this reality differs according to knowledge. Kṛṣṇa can... The same example: a child. Two things: one lugdoo and one one-thousand-dollar note*-which one he will take? He will take this lugdoo. For him this is reality. He does not know the value of this paper. But for his father, which one of them, he can immediately... So reality means according to your knowledge. So these are poor class of men; therefore they are always talking of economic production and this and that, the immediate... That's all.



Śyāmasundara: In fact, when he says that what is practical is the criterion for truth, that is also relative, what is practical. Just like for the child the practical thing is the laddu.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. For a child the lugdoo is reality, but that does not mean that is equal to that one thousand dollar note.



Śyāmasundara: So we have to find out what is really practical.



Prabhupāda: Yes. No, practical, both things practical. But according to the person, the value is different.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. But isn't there an absolute value?



*Prabhupāda: The absolute value is God. That is division (?). Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. That is our objective. We take in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam that janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "The original source of everything." Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi: "I meditate upon the Supreme Truth, Absolute Truth."



Śyāmasundara: And that is also practical?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Why not practical? Do you mean to say that you are, all Kṛṣṇa conscious people, you are after something impractical?



Śyāmasundara: Well, they will say...



Prabhupāda: They may say. What is your position? They may say.



Śyāmasundara: The practical thing is that it makes us happy.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Śyāmasundara: The practical result is that we are happy.



Prabhupāda: So anyway, unless you feel practical, why you are after it? That is my proposal. They may say whatever nonsense they can say.



Śyāmasundara: So the practical result should be satisfaction, happiness.



Prabhupāda: Yes. You are eating, but somebody says, "What you are doing?" But by eating, if you feel satisfaction of your hunger, that is practical. You haven't got to take certificate from others. You are eating; if you feel satisfaction, if you feel strong, that is the...



Śyāmasundara: So these men, both of them, they have a great faith that philosophy can change the world.



Prabhupāda: And this is the real philosophy. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This is philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is real... What is the original source? This is real philosophy. What is that Absolute Truth? Everything is relative truth. What is the Absolute Truth? That is philosophy, Vedānta philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: That has social effects that could change the world?



Prabhupāda: Yes. This, our whole Indian, Vedic civilization, is standing on Vedānta philosophy. And Bhāgavata is explanation of Vedānta philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: So the source of everything is...



Prabhupāda: Everything is there, ideal.



Śyāmasundara: So that's all today. Tomorrow we will discuss Mao Tse Tung, the Chinese Communist.



Prabhupāda: Oh, Mao.



Śyāmasundara: Mao. (end)





TSETUNG.SYA



Mao Tse Tung



Śyāmasundara: He stresses two aspects (in the) theory of dialectical materialism. The one on which he placed the most emphasis is the aspect of the pragmatic element of philosophy, that philosophy must have practical effect. And the other aspect is the contradiction between capitalism and communism, and this contradiction involves conflicts and eventual revolution. He agrees with Hegel that without conflict, there can be no progress. Do we accept this? Without conflict, there is no progress?



Prabhupāda: Our Kurukṣetra battle is a conflict between Kurus and Pāṇḍavas. So after the conflict, the Pāṇḍavas became the kings. So that is admitted; without conflict, you cannot make progress.



Śyāmasundara: Is that true on every level of...?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...chemical law? (?)



Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Mind is saṅkalpa and vikalpa. Mind's business is to accept something and reject something. So in this way, accepting and rejecting, if the mind is sound, then we come to some conclusion by intelligence. Accepting and rejecting, this is conflict. Then by intelligence we take something out of this conflict.



Śyāmasundara: So this idea that no progress is made in any..., except through conflict.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: How is that exactly?



Prabhupāda: This is conflict. Conflict means if I don't agree with you and if you do not agree with me, that is conflict.



Śyāmasundara: So some progress is made from that conflict?



Prabhupāda: Yes. But the two can(?) fight or conflict and one judgement giver.



Śyāmasundara: And this is progress.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this morning I was explaining that your statement should be according to the standard process, vidhi*-mārga. So sādhu-śāstra-guru, three authorities: saintly persons, scripture, and spiritual master. So all of them should be, should agree. There is a con... Just like two litigants, they go to the court and the judges give judgement. Similarly, whenever there is conflict, to come to a conclusion, we must refer to sādhu, śāstra, and guru. Then we get the right judgement.



Śyāmasundara: So his idea of conflict is on the social level, between classes of men. It also carries over into historical levels...



*Prabhupāda: Well, that conflict is no use. Social... So far the modern society is concerned, it is based on mental speculation. There is no standard. Some society has a different standard, another society has a different standard. But none of them are based on some authority. Therefore such conflict cannot bring you into some right conflict if both of them are wrong. The so*-called capitalist and so-called communist, they are all on the wrong basis. So by such conflict you cannot come to a recognized standard.



Śyāmasundara: So by "conflict" you mean the mind's engagement with...



Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say that... Just like two parties fighting on some point. They come to the court and the judgement is given by the judge. So the decision is made on the judgement. Not by simply conflict. If two parties are fighting for life together, they cannot come to the conclusion because they are fighting on the wrong basis.



Śyāmasundara: So this theory of Mao Tse Tung actually rises out of Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest.



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Darwin's theory we have already discussed, and that is nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: "Might makes right."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: They think whoever wins in a battle of ideas must have the right idea.



Prabhupāda: No. That is based on "might is right," but we do not accept this theory. We say, "right is might," not "might is right." Yes. If you are right, then you have got might. Otherwise, simply if you have got might, that is not right.



Śyāmasundara: You were speaking earlier about the conflict of the mind, mental conflict, judging...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Judgement is by the intelligence.



Śyāmasundara: So whenever there is perception coming into the mind, there is a conflict?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. And the intelligence. Just like in the same example. Whether it is to be done, it is not to be done, then your intelligence gives you advice that "In the Vedas this is the right point." So you accept it. Intelligence gives you advice that "In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said like this." Then we accept it. Then that conflict is nice.



Śyāmasundara: Some Christians say that in the mind there is a struggle between God and the devil, and this conflict is always continually going on.



Prabhupāda: No, no. That is wrong thing. God does not come down to your mind, God and devil. That is mind's action. Sometimes he accepts, sometimes he rejects. So either you can say God and devil or whatever. That is mind's business. But that is not final conclusion. When you apply your intelligence with reference to the sādhu and śāstra and make a conclusion, that is right.



Śyāmasundara: So on this level progress is made through conflict.



Prabhupāda: Conflict with intelligence. That means conflict is in the lower stage. So to mitigate this conflict you have to take consultation from the higher stage. That is intelligence. That Mao's theory is simply by conflict of the mental concoctioners. That will not come to a conclusion. That will never be right conclusion.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that all political power comes out of the barrel of a gun. Comes from the barrel of a gun.



*Prabhupāda: Because he is rude. He cannot have that there may be, amongst the sober gentlemen, the gun is reasoning. And for the crude rascals argumentum vaculam. Of course, the gun reason is sometimes needed when the other party is completely animal. But if both of them are animals, then what further decision can come? You see? Therefore our conclusion is taken from śāstra. The gun is used also in terms of śāstra. Just like Kṛṣṇa first of all wanted to settle up the fight, the opposing elements, the Kurus and Pāṇḍavas. He personally became a messenger and personally requested Duryodhana that "All right. Settle up things. They are kṣatriyas. They cannot take up the business of a brāhmaṇa or a vaiśya. Give them five villages, let them rule, and they will be satisfied." But he said, "Oh, what to speak of five villages, I cannot spare the, that small portion of land which can hold the tip of a needle." Then Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes. Then you do not come to reason? Then let us turn to weapon." So this śāstra and śastra. When śāstra fails, then according to śāstra, there is śastra. Śastra means weapon. Both of them come from the śas*-dhātu. Śas-dhātu, from śas-dhātu we take śāstra, śastra, śāsana, śiṣya, like that. It is coming from the same root.



Śyāmasundara: What is that root?



*Prabhupāda: Śas. Śas means control. From śas*-dhātu... Śiṣya means who voluntarily accepts the spiritual master's ruling. That is called śiṣya, disciple. From the same śas-dhātu. The spiritual master rules over him according to śāstra, and he accepts voluntarily. So conflict there is, but the mediator is śas.



Śyāmasundara: Controller.



Prabhupāda: Controller. Otherwise, there is no end of struggle if you don't accept an authorized mediator.



Śyāmasundara: This Mao Tse Tung...



*Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad..., yah śāstra*-vidhim. Śāstra from that śas-dhātu. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya, giving it up, decides by his whims, na siddhim avāpnoti, they'll never get any siddhi, perfection. Therefore the śāstra should be mediator. But these people have no śāstras. They have got simply that barrel of gun. That's all. And that is very rude. And it will never come to perfection. For the temporary time, this party may win or that party may win. That will never... That is the position in the modern world. They have no authoritative śāstra. They manufacture their own way, and therefore there is no peace. First World War, Second World War, Third World War, and there cannot be any peace. As soon as you become strong, you declare war. Hitler thought, "I am now strong. Let me declare war." And another strong party, America came, Russia came. He was killed. So this is no conclusion. And even after Hitler's being killed, there is no conclusion. So this sort of conflict will never bring any peace. That will go on. That is struggle for existence. That is fighting like animals. Two dogs fighting, two hogs fighting, but that is not conclusion. That fighting will go on so long people will remain as dogs and hogs. That will go on. There is no question of peace.



Śyāmasundara: So real progress only comes through...



Prabhupāda: Authoritative decision. If we accept that, then that is real conclusion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that there is conflict, and you say that...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Conflict is always there. But you cannot come to the conclusion unless you take the right decision from the authority. Two litigants, there is conflict. I say that "You do this." You say, "No, why can I do it? Our agreement is different." So there is conflict. So you go to the court and take the right decision from the judge.



Śyāmasundara: He attacks speculators and especially empiricists, or those who draw conclusions of reality through their fragmentary sense perception.



Prabhupāda: He is also doing that. He is also one of them. Because he says that ultimately the barrel... What is that?



Śyāmasundara: That all political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.



Prabhupāda: That's all. He is one of them.



Śyāmasundara: Speculator.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that the criterion for truth is man's social practice, that it has proven over...



Prabhupāda: But what is that social practice? What is the standard of social practice? You manufacture...



Śyāmasundara: Whatever is practical for the most people's happiness, that is truth.



Prabhupāda: So practical happiness, that differs between persons. Just like ordinarily in your country boys and girls meet very intimately, without any restriction. But we say, "No mixing." So which is practical? That is according to circumstance? For our purpose, if we allow illegitimate sex, then there is no spiritual progress. Therefore this stoppage is practical. And because others, they have no spiritual idea, they think, "Oh, why not? Why the sex urges should be restricted? Let us enjoy it. It is enjoyment." They're animals. So which one ms practical? This one is practical or... That practical means according to the aim and object.



Śyāmasundara: Relative.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But if one understands what is spiritual progress, what is his need, then he'll understand that these are all practical.



Śyāmasundara: Their idea of what was practical would mean that which gives the most material benefit to the most people.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore they are suffering. The whole world is suffering. They do not know what is real progress or what the human life is meant for. They are taking human life is as good as hogs' life or animals' life. We don't take it. We say the human life has got a special importance for spiritual realization. But these people, they have no such idea. So their practical purpose, our practical purpose is different. They are ignorant. What is the aim of life, they do not know. They take animal life and human life is the same. Simply it should be a little polished. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that all ideas or theories find their verification or their fulfillment through social practice. In other words, if something is a theory, if it's practiced and found to be true, then it is true.



Prabhupāda: Here it is true. In India still, those who are spiritualists. We have seen. Now, they are tolerating severe cold without any difficulty. For a materialist it is very difficult. From practical also, those who are advanced in spiritual life, they have no disease practically. They don't go to doctor. So these are practical. How can you deny these are not practical? They can live any condition, without any food, without any vitamin. Are these not practical? So we take that advancement of spiritual life makes our life more comfortable. That is practical. Without being dependent on doctors and this vitamin and that, so many, so many things. That is practical. If I have to depend on so many things, then where is the practical? Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that if you can... [break]



Śyāmasundara: He says that natural laws and ideas, verification of ideas, comes about through class struggle, material production and scientific experiment. That which we know for sure, certainty.



Prabhupāda: (to guest) How are you?



Śyāmasundara: Certain knowledge is gathered from these three sources: class struggle, material production, and scientific experiment.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. But so*-called scientists, they sometimes put forward wrong theories.



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that the proof is if it works socially, if it has a social effect.



Prabhupāda: That I am coming to. Suppose... Just like a living man and a dead man. So what is the scientific statement about this dead man? What do they say?



Śyāmasundara: Well, that he's just a lump of chemicals.



Prabhupāda: All right. Then if you are scientist, then bring that chemical and fulfill it. That is experiment. If that experiment is not possible, then what is the use of your scientific statement, "It is loss of chemicals"?



Śyāmasundara: The idea is that the theories are not practical unless they are tested socially, unless there is social benefit.



Prabhupāda: It is not the question of social. You say that this body is dead because some chemicals are wanting. So you should make experiment that such chemicals be replaced and the body may come out again in life. Then your scientific statement is... Otherwise, it is most unscientific. So how to test the scientist? His theory is not practical. You say that the dead man means some chemical wanting. So you put that chemical. Just like when a motorcar is stopped, so the engineer comes, a mechanic comes, he says, "This part is broken. It should be replaced." All right, replace it and car moves. But you say that "This part is wanting; therefore this man is dead." Now you replace that part. Then it will be scientific because it will be proved by experiment.



Śyāmasundara: Well, speaking more of, for instance, Marx's theory, that...



*Prabhupāda: Now, first of all... He said scientific. So I mean to say that so*-called scientists are imperfect. So what is the value of such scientific statement? There are so many scientists. Their statements are imperfect. Or other scientists differ. Then what is real scientific? You are scientist and he is scientist. I am talking on the scientific... Experiment. He says experiment. So when a scientist says that "This is wanting," then by experiment let him prove it that actually this is wanting.



*Śyāmasundara: Well, still, his basic idea is that all theories, all natural laws are proven in practice, social practice, that... For instance, Marx's idea that capital is not necessary for production, that profit is not necessary for production. It's proven by the communist state where there is no profit*-taking, there is no capital making, and still the wheels(?) of production go on.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So that sense is by nature's law. But artificially we have adopted so many things. That means, nature's law means God's law. So God's law is that you have got land. You till and you get production. But if you cannot till personally, then you have to employ somebody else. So you have to pay him. Therefore you must require profit.



Śyāmasundara: But excess profit, excess profit is taken by the owner...



Prabhupāda: Anyway, I have hired one man to work for me. I have to pay him and therefore I require profit.



Śyāmasundara: But isn't the tendency there to exploit the man and take more profit?



Prabhupāda: That must be. Not only the capitalists exploit, the laborers also exploit.



Śyāmasundara: Laborers exploit?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. One laborer is charging five rupees, another laborer is charging ten rupees. That profiteering, exploiting tendency is everywhere. Why the laborers strike? To make more profit. Do you mean to say because he is laborer he is free from this profit*-making desires?



Śyāmasundara: But their idea is that if the means of production are owned by the people, that this condition, this social condition, will wither away.



*Prabhupāda: That was perfect in Vedic system, that you... The land is supposed to belong to the government or to the king. The king gives you the land that "You make production and give me tax, one*-fourth. That's all." So there is no question of profit. If you have produced one kilo, give one-fourth kilo to the king as tax. That is real social system. Actually, according to our Vedic system, everything belongs to God and the king is supposed to be representative of God to manage things. So for his managerial work he requires some money. Therefore I have taken some land for my livelihood. So whatever production is there, I pay one-fourth to the king for management. This is nice system. As soon as the tax is realized in terms of pound, shillings, pence, whole difficulty arises. I have produced ten mounds of rice and out of that one-fourth I give to the government or to the king. So I have no anxiety. If I produce twenty mounds, I give one-fourth. If I produce ten mounds, I give one-fourth. If I don't produce I don't give. This is perfect system.



Pañcadraviḍa: So if I give one quarter to the king that's the representative of God, what if the brāhmaṇa and the spiritual master...



Prabhupāda: That we shall talk later on.



Śyāmasundara: This Mao Tse Tung believes in using a constant ideological struggle as an accepted...



*Prabhupāda: No, no. This ideology has no struggle. Whatever is produced, you pay one*-fourth. There is no question of struggle. If I have to pay some fixed tax, ten rupees, for this land I have secured, but if I don't produce, I have no ten rupees, there is struggle. Where I get this ten rupees? Then I have to take loan from somebody else. That brings(?) my anxiety. But if this system is accepted, then I, if I produce, I give you one-fourth; if I don't produce, I have no anxiety. That is perfect system.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the constant ideological propaganda, you have to remind the people of the fears behind the practice. If there is risk,(?) something, you have to remind them.



Prabhupāda: But why this is a constant struggle for ideological? You accept this ideal. So there is no anxiety. If I produce, I pay. If I don't produce, I don't pay. Is it not better?



Śyāmasundara: The idea is...



*Prabhupāda: Why I shall develop an ideological perfection by conflict, by struggle, by talking in the parliament, and talking to the leaders, and... Make this simple method that whatever you produce, you give me one*-fourth. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He believes that whatever is produced, all should be given. Everything.



Prabhupāda: Why all should be given? That means he's killed my independence.



Śyāmasundara: There should be no proprietorship. There should be no private property.



Prabhupāda: No. Proprietor should be allotted proprietor, that I belong... You give me... The king or the government gives me this land. So that is my proprietorship. Just like I have taken this house. So it is higher proprietorship. I do not allow anybody to come here. That is trespassing.



Śyāmasundara: Even the farms in China are collective. The people work together, cooperate to produce such and such products. They give the whole product to the state. In return, they receive their lodging, their cloths.



Prabhupāda: But that will never give them satisfaction. That is artificial.



Śyāmasundara: So they need constant ideological brainwashing to maintain this state of activity.



Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. If I know that "This land belongs to me, government has allotted me," so I can develop in my own way. I have got freedom. Wholesale dependence, what is the value of this?



Śyāmasundara: He believes that that's a false idea, this idea of freedom or proprietorship. That it only leads to exploitation and misery for others.



Prabhupāda: Misery for others?



Śyāmasundara: If I have proprietorship of something, then that means someone else is deprived of that.



Prabhupāda: Why deprived? He has got proprietorship. You have got proprietorship, I have got proprietorship. Why you are deprived? Because government has given me some land, it does not mean that a fellow subject, my brother, should not be given. As I have got, he has got. Therefore our Upaniṣad says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. "Whatever is given to you by God, you be satisfied." That is Vedic system. Therefore you find, a poor man is also satisfied and a rich man is also satisfied. The poor man thinks that "God has given me this; so I must be satisfied with this and execute my God consciousness." And the rich man also thinks that "God has given me this; so let me be satisfied with this and save my time." There is no competition.



Śyāmasundara: Under this philosophy, the rich man does not exploit the worker, take his work for profit?



Prabhupāda: Sometimes the worker wants rich man's exploitation. If he has no work, if the rich man does not give him work, he thinks unemployed. You have seen practically; *the Africans, by serving, they are more satisfied. Just like a dog. A dog having a master is more happy, and a dog having no master is a street dog. He is unhappy. So there are certain stages where one is happy having a master, having a protector. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. A śūdra mentality. Because he has no higher intelligence. He has to depend on some good master. That is his happiness. But when the master exploits him, that is a different thing. But one class should be master, another class should be servant*-that is nature's arrangement.



Śyāmasundara: Well, this Mao Tse Tung's (sic:) systemology, or his method of knowing truth, of knowing things, is that first of all there is the perceptual, or the phenomenal, and this becomes the conceptual, or inferential. In other words, if you..., you can condition people to a certain type of truth by presenting some phenomenon repeatedly, over and over again, until they accept it, they make a conception: "This is the truth."



*Prabhupāda: So that is our process. We say that perceptual fact is that we are controlled. Every one of us, controlled. Who can deny it? Why you are running on this fan? Because you are controlled. There is excessive heat controlling you. Therefore I am trying to counteract it. In every step you are controlled by the laws of nature. So how he thinks that he is independent? Why does he manufacture so many so*-called laws of independence? In fact he is controlled. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. He is in contact with some modes of material nature, and he is controlled by them. So why does he not accept that "I am not independent, I am controlled. The basic principle is that I am controlled." Then if one is actually conversant with the laws of control, then he makes adjustment according to that. One being controlled, how he can become controller? This is phenomenon. Where one is... Let any man come and say boldly that "I am not controlled." Who is that man? Find out any man. We are sitting, so many men here. Let any one of us declare that "I am not controlled." So therefore basic principle is that "I am controlled." So how this position of being controlled can be perfect, that should be our study. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We say that you are controlled. So the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. So you voluntarily surrender yourself, that "Kṛṣṇa, from this day... I was struggling against Your laws. Now I fully surrender."



Śyāmasundara: So his idea is that if you present a certain idea to a certain group of people often enough, more and more...



Prabhupāda: That we are doing. We are repeatedly said that "You are controlled, you are controlled, you are controlled." (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: But what if you said... Like Mao Tse Tung might say, "I am the leader. I am the leader. I am the leader. I am the leader."



Prabhupāda: That is false. You are not leader.



Śyāmasundara: But they will accept it as true.



Prabhupāda: Why Mao becoming old? He is controlled. Is it that he will not die? Then he is controlled.



Śyāmasundara: He may die, but they will still accept him as the leader.



Prabhupāda: Well... Accept leader, a group of rogues and thieves accept another big thief as leader. (laughter) That is another thing. You see? That does not mean he is leader?



Śyāmasundara: So the nature of truth is not always derived from phenomenon. In other words, I can tell these people that this certain rock is God often enough so that they will eventually say, "Yes, this rock is God."



Prabhupāda: No, we don't say the rock is God. We say God is God. We are not so foolish that we say rock is God.



Śyāmasundara: But if everything was telling me from the moment of my birth, my parents, slogans on the walls, everything was saying...



Prabhupāda: No. Even if you have not heard... But you cannot change that opinion. Suppose my parents have taught me that "There is God and we are controlled," so you cannot change this. You say that you are not controlled. You prove that you are not controlled. Then you can say, "My parents have taught me wrongly." You are becoming old. You are becoming diseased. You will have to die. You have taken birth under certain system. So you are controlled. My parents have taught me that "There is God, who is supreme controller, and we are all controlled." Now you change this first of all. You are talking so nice thing, but you first of all say that you are not controlled. That is our proposition. If you say that you are not controlled, then you are mad.



Śyāmasundara: No. I would admit that I am controlled. Everyone in my Communist state is controlled because we work under the...



Prabhupāda: Apart from Communist state, by nature's law... You have spoken about nature's law. So we are controlled by the nature's law. Who can deny it? When there is severe cold, I am controlled. When there is severe heat, I am controlled. When there is epidemic, I am controlled. When there is famine, I am controlled. When there is flood, I am controlled. So how you can say that you are not controlled? You are not independent. The basic principle is that you are not independent.



Śyāmasundara: Mao Tse Tung uses this as the basis of his...



Prabhupāda: Basis is that you are controlled. That is mistake.



Śyāmasundara: His methodology is to present slogans to the people...



Prabhupāda: But you may manufacture slogans. First of all, let us talk on the principles. Everyone is controlled. How Mao can deny it?



Śyāmasundara: He wants to be the controller. He can control everyone's...



Prabhupāda: He is himself controlled. How he can be controller? If you are blind, how you can lead? I am also blind. You must have eyes; then you can control.



Śyāmasundara: He thinks in this philosophy, Marxist philosophy, that that is the truth so that he can present slogans to the people in such a way that they become controlled by that truth.



Prabhupāda: What is the value of your slogan if you are yourself controlled? Our point is that if you are yourself blind, how you can lead other blind men?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he's convinced that that is the truth. So he...



Prabhupāda: He is convinced, but where is the proof that his leadership should be accepted?



Śyāmasundara: That it works socially. That people are becoming happy under this philosophy.



Prabhupāda: But shall not be happy. If I am given under the control of Communist government, I shall not be happy. We were there for a week in Moscow. We were not at all happy. That boy who came to us, he is not happy. So where is your perfection? You make everyone happy; then it is all right. If you think that "I am happy, my brother is happy. That's all right. Let others go to hell," that is another thing.



Revatīnandana: But Mao will say that the Russian Communism is religionism, that it is not real Communism. Therefore they are unhappy.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. The Russian Communism is failing; similarly, some days after, his communism also will fail. Because they are all imperfect. To criticize another man does not mean you are perfect. That is a different thing. You have to prove that you are perfect. "Judge not others lest you may be judged."



Devotee: "Lest ye be judged and found wanting."



Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is not Mao is a very perfect man, his theory is perfect, he is better than... It is simply mental speculation.



Śyāmasundara: But he examines his theory, and he sees that the nature of his theory or the nature of things is this conflict. This is the nature of things.



Prabhupāda: That we have already talked; there is conflict. Conflict is going on.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that there are two types of conflict in social structure. One is between communists and their enemies, such as the U.S. imperialists; and those within the Communist party itself.



Prabhupāda: So... There... In communism... That means there are enemies. However perfect you may be, you have got enemies. Outside, inside both. Then what is your perfection?



Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that through the Communist system we can...



Prabhupāda: That enemy, everyone is... That you are enemy of the capitalists. Similarly, your enemy is capitalist.



Śyāmasundara: So the whole idea is to make the whole world Communist and there won't be any more enemies.



Prabhupāda: No, no. Why the world... First of all, why the whole world will accept this Communism unless it is perfect? If it is imperfect, how do you expect that the whole world will accept it?



Śyāmasundara: He says that it is perfect, but there may be some conflict within the party because someone has not understood the philosophy perfectly.



Prabhupāda: Or perhaps you have not understood your philosophy; therefore you are so much optimistic.



Revatīnandana: He says there will be struggle against the opposing side. It will overpower the opposing side, make everything communist, and then by interaction of...



Prabhupāda: That is in every sphere. Why communist?



Śyāmasundara: He has another slogan to resolve conflicts within the party of "Unity, criticism, unity." A dialectic. "Unity, criticism... The thesis is unity, the antithesis is criticism..."



Prabhupāda: Then what is his reply to this dialectic proposition, that I say that "You, Mr. Mao, you are not independent. You are controlled."



Śyāmasundara: He'll say, "Yes, I am controlled by the higher truth of the socialist law, communistic law."



Prabhupāda: No, even there is no communistic law, still you are controlled, apart from the communistic law. You are controlled by the nature's law. How you can avoid it?



Śyāmasundara: Well, being only a combination of matter, I must be born and I must die, everyone.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But you want to be independent. You want to be uncontrolled. That is not possible. Why it is not possible? And if you are controlled, who is controlling you? What is the background of that control? So these answers they cannot give. They avoid.



Śyāmasundara: They are not interested because they say that...



Prabhupāda: They are not interested, that is not a fact. If I challenge you... Just like here is Mr. (indistinct), a lawyer He's... In the law court he is asking one question. If the other party says, "I am not interested," that will not be sufficient. Do you think? (laughs) You must be interested. You are in the law court.



Śyāmasundara: He says the only criterion for truth is its practical application in society.



Prabhupāda: The practical... First of all, you prove practically that you are independent.



Śyāmasundara: It wouldn't make any difference because...



Prabhupāda: Why not difference? My point is if your basic principle is wrong, then how you can make a perfect proposal?



Śyāmasundara: Well, I'm not concerned with questions about my origin or about the nature of matter except that...



Prabhupāda: Then you are interested in the superficial things.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Only as it applies to society.



Prabhupāda: That superficial means it is changing. It will never be perfect. If you take superficial thing, then it is changing always. That is nature's law.



Śyāmasundara: My only interest is in the dictatorship of the proletariat, that everyone should have an equal opportunity, equal pay, equal property, everything.



Prabhupāda: That is theory, but it will never be successful. Why in Russia there is manager's pay and the worker's pay? Why not equal pay?



Revatīnandana: He says, "Abolish that." Mao says, "Abolish that system."



Devotee: No, Russia is not a Communist state.



Revatīnandana: The Chinese scoff at the Russians, that they are not Communist. They say we will not abide by this different manager... Only one pay scale for everybody.



Prabhupāda: First of all, this Communistic idea came from Russia and China imitated.



Devotee: Well, it came out of the proponent philosophers.



Prabhupāda: Anyway, the Russia is supposed to be leader of the Communistic idea.



Revatīnandana: They don't accept anymore. There is Mao...



Prabhupāda: Similarly, sometimes after, he will not be accepted. That is my proposition. As Russia is not accepted now, some days after, he will not be accepted. Similarly, your also theory will fail. That is my proposition. Because I challenge that your theory is not perfect. Because Russia's theory was not perfect, it has failed. Similarly, I say your theory is also imperfect, therefore it will fail. Anything imperfect will fail. That is my proposition.



Revatīnandana: His propaganda is that it is perfect because it has made the Chinese people...



Prabhupāda: Propaganda, by propaganda you can do anything. That is different thing. But fact is fact. If you theory is not perfect, you make however propaganda, it will fail.



Śyāmasundara: But our people are all employed, they are all clothed nicely...



Prabhupāda: Temporarily it may be very glittering. Just like a polished thing, temporarily it looks very brilliant, shine. But in course of time it will become black. That's all. Because it is not actually shining. Gold shining and artificial shining, there is difference.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that these class conflicts can be resolved through prosecution and repression of counter*-revolutionaries at home, and...



Prabhupāda: That is going on. It is not a new thing, that in order to establish peace you kill somebody.



*Śyāmasundara: If there's any counter*-revolutionaries, you prosecute or repress them.



Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is not a new thing. That is going on in the animal kingdom. What is the use of your philosophy? Without having philosophy, this is going on in the animal kingdom. So what is the use of your philosophy? By philosophy, you give something which will not create any conflict. But by conflict, by crushing, by subduing, if you want to establish your peace, then what is the value of this peace?



Śyāmasundara: He says we also have to prevent foreign intervention.



Prabhupāda: If your theory is perfect, why there should be foreign intervention?



Revatīnandana: How foreign intervention will be dangerous to you if you are perfect?



Śyāmasundara: Well, because the capitalists are...



Prabhupāda: That is bias. Your people also become capitalist. Why Kruschev was driven away? Because he was becoming... So because you are all imperfect, you think in a different way, but ultimately you will find that it is useless. Childish. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: Now they are making friends with the capitalist materialists. The capitalist materialists were flown to Peking recently to save Mao Tse Tung's life because he was dying of a major heart attack. So they called a major scientist from America to help save his life. (laughter)



Prabhupāda: Just see.



Revatīnandana: Now they have invited the American president to come there for talks. The imperfect one, they are inviting to talk with him now for some compromise.



*Prabhupāda: This is described in Bhāgavata: punah punaś carvita*-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30], "chewing the chewed." Once it is chewed, it is thrown away, and then again, "Let me see if there is any juice." (laughter) Chewing the chewed. Or in plain words, mental concoction. The mind's business is acceptance and rejection. First of all, reject American capitalists; *then again accept for consulting. That means they are hovering on the mental plane. They have no intelligence. In big scale, accepting and rejecting. That's all. It is the business of the mind. As in your personal mind you see, you accept something immediately and again reject, "No, no, it is not good." The same thing is going on in a bigger scale. That's all. They are not... Just like a pickpocket and a big scientific thief. Huh? They are trying to... Modern, scientifically, they want to rob the bank. They set the bomb. And pickpocket is satisfied by taking one paisa from your pocket. But the principle is stealing. Because you are very organized thief, it does not mean from the eyes of the law you are honest. You cannot say in the court that "I am organized thief. I am scientific thief, and he is a pickpocket." In the eyes of the law you are also punishable, he is also punishable. That's all. So they are, I mean to say, large*-scale speculators. That's all. But it is, after all, speculation. It has no fact.



Śyāmasundara: So these governments, meaning American government or Chinese government, they live on slogans, on ideas, mental concoctions.



Prabhupāda: That's all. Mental concoction. They are not perfect. Perfection is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they are intelligent, they should consider this movement very seriously and apply it for practical life all over the world. That will make people happy.



Śyāmasundara: So that's all.



Prabhupāda: That's all.



Devotee: Is it not a fallacy to think that by adding sense gratification we will decrease the demands, desires for more?



Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Adding sense gratification means adding ghee, pouring ghee on the fire.



Devotee: Yes. But some has to be there as the senses, which they're denying. The basis of their ideology is that conflict brings about growth or progress. If they want a peaceful society, they're still trying to get rid of their conflicts.



*Prabhupāda: That we have discussed in the beginning. Conflict must be decided by higher intelligence. Just like I have given yesterday, there is conflict between two litigants and the high*-court judge decides. So conflict there must be, but it must be decided by higher authorities. That's all. Otherwise it will go on. If you don't go to the higher authorities, then it will go on. It will never end, conflict.



Revatīnandana: It also follows from his philosophy that if somebody defeats him and throws him out, that other person was right.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: He was wrong.



Prabhupāda: That is right.



Revatīnandana: So his philosophy is very conditional.



Devotee: The antithesis is there in his teaching. He defeated his own instruction in his preface. That's what I was trying to... One thing about Mao's Communism in Russia in its relation to the Soviet Communism is that Soviet Russians are finding that the (indistinct) in a commune is going down because the family life is broken up. The children are taken away from the parents. The parents live separately and see one another occasionally. Similarly, it's dropping still more sharply in Red China, Mao's state. So Mao, in an effort to curb back and to reduce things to their natural order, wants to still further dissolve the struc...



Prabhupāda: But we don't accept either Mao or Marx. We don't accept anyone.



Devotee: Why are you discussing them?



Prabhupāda: Discussing to defeat their philosophy. Because their philosophy is accepted in the world, so we are giving the weak points of that philosophy.



Devotee: When I (indistinct) they simply say I'm dogmatic, but when I defeat them in terms of their own premises, that they have to admit.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are doing. We are defeating on their own principles. On principles. Just like we are speaking that Mao thinks that he is not controlled. He should be controller. But he is controlled by heart attack. Then how he can be controller? The same example. If you are blind, how you can lead other blind men? First of all, he has to know that "I am so powerful, why I am being controlled by heart attack?" Let them philosophize on this point. You must admit that "I am controlled." So if I am controller, then how I can be supreme controller?



Revatīnandana: Or if I am perfect, then why do I have to submit to imperfection?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Revatīnandana: That means actually I am not perfect. Therefore what qualification have I got to give truth?



Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot give. You are cheating only. Because you are imperfect, but you are giving ideas to people. What right you have that you are teaching?



Revatīnandana: Suppose he says, "Yes, it's true, I will die. We all will die. I am just giving a formula for now until I die. Until we die, then we will do like this."



Prabhupāda: Then all will die. Those who will follow, he will also die, they will also die. So first of all, stop yourself from death.



Revatīnandana: They will say "That cannot be done."



Prabhupāda: Why it cannot be done? Search out the cause. You don't want to die, but you are being forced to die. First of all, answer this problem. Otherwise, "Devils cite scripture." You first of all become perfect. Why you remain a devil? How you can cite scripture?



Pañcadraviḍa: Also his (indistinct) that "If we are imperfect, how can we govern?" Their whole slogan, Communist slogan is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." How can you get from a person according to his ability and how can you give according to his needs? If all the time there are the four errors of cheating propensity and so many other factors of imperfection are there, how can you possibly take a person and treat him as an individual and expect to have any kind of a reasonable conception of what he is capable of doing? (end)





EVOLUTIONISTS.SYA



The Evolutionists:

Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander



Śyāmasundara: He wants to search out what is the pattern of evolution, how it will go in the future, and he says that because man has progressed from the instinctive stage to the intelligent stage, and then to the intuitive stage, that he will obtain eventually the immortal stage, that he will become...



*Prabhupāda: That is nice. That immortal stage is described in the Bhāgavatam, or the Bhagavad*-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]. Progress means you go, go. Gamati iti gatiḥ, or progress. You go, go, go. So when you come to this śloka... (?) Therefore in the Vedas it is said, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Sūrayaḥ, means those who are learned, those who are advanced in knowledge. They are called sūrayaḥ. So they are always looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. Just like modern scientists are going, trying to go to the moon planet, so when they start, they are looking forward (to) the moon planet. Similarly, those who are learned, they are simply looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu: "When I shall reach there?" That goal is there. They are not missing the goal. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is the Ṛg Veda mantra. They know their goal. But they have to reach still, yet to go there. Just like our Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they know what is the goal, Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. So this is the attempt, how to reach there, how to reach there. That's all. We are not blind, but these people are blind. They do not know what is the goal. By philosophizing, they simply mislead. That is explained in the Bhāgavata: andhā, a blind man is trying to lead other blind men. If you do not know, why you are philosophizing? Unless you have got the ideal goal for evolutionary progress, why you talk of these things? What do you think? Huh? So that is explained in the Bhāgavata. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]. Andhā. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes; then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, "Please come behind me. I shall get you across." But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others? Philosophizing.



Śyāmasundara: It seems like these two philosophers have two different viewpoints. The first one, Huxley, said man can take nature into his own hand and mold his own evolution.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: Whereas this philosopher thinks that we should just..., that the vital force is guiding everyone and creating its own evolution, that we should just drift in the course of things and the vital force will determine history or will determine our future.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Vital force will determine. That is somewhat...



Śyāmasundara: Without our doing, without anything of our doing.



Prabhupāda: No. Vital force must know how to make progress how to do it. Then he'll be... If he does not know how to do it, how it will be possible? Can you do anything? Suppose you are learning some mechanical business, can you do it without direction? You have to learn. You must get a teacher. So without teacher, that is not possible.



Śyāmasundara: Just like the seasons. If we just place ourselves in the seasons, they take us toward something, towards springtime.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot compare. The analogy is mistaken. The season is matter, material changes. But the evolution is not matter. There is spirit soul. He is making his evolution. So he has got independence. He can reject and accept. Just like yesterday we were talking... (plane overhead) ...Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up everything, just surrender unto Me," but because you are living entity, you can reject this proposal or accept this proposal. Not that blindly you have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. No. That is not possible. The proposal is there, but it is up to you to surrender or not to surrender. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says that "You do it." If it is automatically, then there was no need of Kṛṣṇa's saying, "Do it." It would have come automatically to the surrendering point. Not like that. They are mistaken in that. The living entity has got the right to accept or reject. So if he takes, he makes his progress, accepting the right path, then he comes to the goal. But if he rejects, he'll not reach the goal (?). That depends on him.



Śyāmasundara: So this philosopher Bergson, he sees two types of morality. The "closed morality," which is the compulsive forms of behavior, which conform to prevailing convention or social pressure or tradition; static morality, one simply follows the tradition blindly.



Prabhupāda: That can be changed according to the... Just like in some scriptures it is said that "Thou shall not kill." So the killing is ordinary thing there. But in some society killing is already prohibited by so much culture that they do not want to kill even an ant. So that depends on education of the particular society. It is not static, that "This will be like this." No. Not like that. "One man's food another man's poison." What is morality in one society, it may be immorality in another society.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So the other type of morality he calls "open morality." This is determined by individuals in a dynamic way, blazing new trails, guided by...



Prabhupāda: As soon as it is invented by individual men or society, this is all rascaldom. It has no value.



Śyāmasundara: He calls it "the higher morality." Just like St. Paul or some great saint receives inspiration from God and he blazes a new trail to morality in a society.



Prabhupāda: That is nice. Because he is God conscious, he can dictate what is real morality.



Śyāmasundara: He's speaking of the case of St. Paul.



*Prabhupāda: So St. Paul, he's a sādhu. So our process is that: sādhu*-guru-śāstra. We have to accept everything through saintly person, confirmed by the scripture, and described or explained by guru. Then it is perfect. The scriptures are already there, and we have to see how the scriptures are being followed by saintly persons. And if there is any difficulty, they should be explained by the spiritual master. Then it is perfect. Sādhu-guru-śāstra-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. Scriptures you cannot understand directly. Then you have to see how the scriptural injunctions are being followed by saintly persons. Even if you cannot understand, then the spiritual master will explain to you.



Śyāmasundara: And he sees also in the same way two types of religion. He sees the static religion and he calls this static religion "myth devised by human intelligence as a means of defense against the depressing experiences of life. Being fearful of the future, man attempts to combat his fate by constructing religious myths."



*Prabhupāda: Just that... Anything created by human being, that is not acceptable. We do not follow that principle. Because a human being is always imperfect. So we cannot take anything manufactured, myth, by any human being. We take directly from God. Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. The religious principles, they are given directly by God. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, "This is religion: surrender unto Me." This is religion. It is not man-manufactured. Man is manufacturing, "Oh, this is my type of religion. It is Muhammadanism." "This is Hinduism." "This is Christianism." All these isms, they are imperfect, man-made. But this is perfect. This is perfect because it is given by God Himself. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat... [SB 6.3.19]. Very simple thing. "You surrender unto Me." That's all. So any religious system which leads the follower to this point, surrendering to God, that is religion. Otherwise bogus. Real religion is this, surrender to God. So any system of religion, it doesn't matter whether Hinduism, Christianism, Muhammadanism, if it teaches ultimately surrender to God, then that is perfect religion. Otherwise it is not religion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the opposite of static religion is dynamic religion. He says that this type of religion...



Prabhupāda: Dynamic because he has no idea of God and God consciousness. He thinks it is dea..., static. But they can see practically. We are Kṛṣṇa conscious, how much activities we have got. Deny it. So he does not know what is God, what is religion, and he is philosopher. You see?



Śyāmasundara: He says that... He would probably call our type of religion dynamic religion.



Prabhupāda: Dynamic, yes.



Śyāmasundara: But there is also a type that is static religion.



Prabhupāda: Static religion... Religion is not static because religion (?) (ritual?) is on the spiritual platform. The spiritual platform is not static because the spirit is the dynamic force in this body. So when it is uncontaminated by this material body, then how it can be static? Because the spirit soul is there within the body, therefore my body is moving.



Śyāmasundara: But, for instance, in ancient Greece, they fabricated so many myths, mythology...



Prabhupāda: Well, that I have already answered. Anything manufactured by man, that is not religion. That is not religion. That I have already explained. Religion is not manufactured, but it is given by God. That is our point. God is giving religion, "Here is religion. Surrender unto Me." So any religious system may be different in method, but ultimately, if it comes to this point, surrendering to God, then it is religion. Otherwise, it is not religion. Reject it.



Śyāmasundara: He says that prompted by this vital impulse, the human will identifies with the divine will in a mystical union...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...and that this is real religion.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people that you agree with the divine will. The divine will is that you surrender. So you agree. You surrender. That we are teaching. That is real religion.



Śyāmasundara: He says that real religion is a mystic oneness with God.



Prabhupāda: That is... Yes. Oneness means I agree with God. God says your surrender. I say, "Yes. I surrender." God says Arjuna "You fight," he fights. That is oneness, that we have no disagreement in any point with God. That is oneness. Just like in this institution, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as soon as I say anything, there is no disagreement of any other disciple. If there is disagreement, then it is ended. Disobedient immediately. As it is going, it is being done, taking God's representative, Kṛṣṇa's representative, so similarly with God also. And what, what I am doing? I am simply taking the order from God and I am disseminating the same knowledge. I have accepted that surrender to Kṛṣṇa is my life. I am teaching others, "You also surrender." This is called disciplic succession. There is no disagreement with God. It is not that I am posing myself, "I am God."



Śyāmasundara: What does it mean, "mystic oneness with God"? What does mystic mean?



Prabhupāda: Mystic means spiritual. What is the mystic? What is the meaning of?



Śyāmasundara: "Mystic means known only to those of special comprehension or especially initiated." Known only to those with special comprehension.



Prabhupāda: What is that? Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So Bergson believed that this mystic who had contacted God, that he can lead others and he can teach others how to become godly.



Prabhupāda: That's it. God's representative. That we are. That is disciplic succession. Yes. That is spiritual... He is accepting spiritual master. He is accepting spiritual master. And that is the definition in the śāstra.



tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta

jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

śābde pare ca niśṇātaṁ

brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam

[SB 11.3.21]



*One who has realized God, you go to such spiritual master to understand the spiritual science. The Bhagavad*-gītā also... That is our word, that you should approach... What does he say? That word?



Śyāmasundara: The mystic teaches us how to become godly.



Prabhupāda: How to become godly. That's right.



Śyāmasundara: He says how to become God.



Prabhupāda: Who?



Śyāmasundara: This man. In the sense of godly, how to become God.



Prabhupāda: All right. That can be accepted. But a better word is how to become godly or God conscious. That is the exact word. Śyāmasundara: This definition in the dictionary for mystic is "known only to those of special comprehension or especially initiated."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That means one who is God conscious. He is mystic.



Śyāmasundara: But the modern interpretation of the word mystic is something different. People take "mystic" to mean someone who is very mysterious and magic.



Prabhupāda: Yes. It has come to that. God consciousness... Just like at the present moment, if a guru can show some miracles, just like that Sai Baba, (laughter) so they accept that he's mystic. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. That's the modern meaning of mystic.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Although it may be rascaldom, false, still, he's received like that. Miracles. That means less intelligent class of men, they want to see some miracles. That is mysticism.



Śyāmasundara: And he says that God means love and the creative... Through creative love the world came into being, and the world is a manifestation of God's love.



Prabhupāda: Yes. God loves. Because unless He loves, why does He come personally? Why He gives instruction through scriptures? [break]



Śyāmasundara: So today we are discussing a philosopher named Samuel Alexander. He is the philosopher of emergent evolution. The last of the evolutionists we'll be discussing. His philosophy begins with the idea that objects, external objects, have an independent existence. They do not depend on consciousness for their existence. This is the opposite of many philosophers we have discussed who have said that nothing exists unless it is perceived. But this philosopher says something may exist even though it is not perceived. Even though there is no conscious life to observe, it still exists. Objects exist independently of perception.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like God exists, either you perceive or not perceive. Is that all right? God, creator. Just like everyone has got father, so all living entities coming originally from a father. So you perceive or not perceive, it doesn't matter. But a father was there or is there. Is that all right?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Suppose if nobody perceives an object. Say, like...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Even nobody perceives, the fact is fact. Nobody has seen my father, but everyone knows that I had a father. It is not necessary that who accepts that I had a father, or I have a father, it is not necessary that he has to see my father by direct perception. But because I exist, therefore my father is essential. That is understood by everyone. Just like somebody asks, some friend asks some friend, "What is your father's name?" That means he assumes that he has got a father. Otherwise how does he say, ask, "What is your father's name?" First of all, you should have asked, "Have you got a father?" Then ask his name. But without asking this inquiry, whether he has got a father or not, he simply asks, "What is the name of your father?" Then it is assumed that he has a father. So he does not see his father, but immediately perceives that he has a father.



Śyāmasundara: He uses the example of a house, that if I become conscious of a house, the house itself is a real entity, unaffected by my consciousness of it. It exists, objectively, real, whether I see it or not. He says that the...



Prabhupāda: But in that proposition... And if we accept that we are eternal, so it is very natural to assume that we have got eternal home. That is back to Godhead, back to home. Is it not?



Śyāmasundara: If we were born someplace, that is our home, normally...



Prabhupāda: No. The thing is... Just like I have come to this house. This is not my own house, but everyone knows that I have got a house. It may be where it is. Therefore sometimes they ask, "Where, what is your residence?"



Śyāmasundara: Yes. "Where is your home?" That usually refers to where you were born.



Prabhupāda: Or where I live. That's all. Not necessarily. "What is your address?" That present address may not be my birthplace, but I live somewhere. That's a fact. Nobody is interested to know where I live, but everyone knows that I have got a living place.



Śyāmasundara: Many people ask, "Where do you come from?"



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: "Where is your origin?"



Prabhupāda: "What is your birthplace?"



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So this Samuel Alexander says that our consciousness of an object is a mere perspective on something, but it's a real portion of that object and not just a mental image. In other words, if I see a table, I am actually reacting with that table. It is a real perspective. It's not just a mental image, but I'm actually reacting to that table. My senses are reacting with the table. It's an objective reality.



Prabhupāda: Where is the table?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Some philosophers think that if I see the table, it's merely a mental idea in my mind, that table. He says that no, there is a real objective relationship between my senses and the table, reality of the table. Is that...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is right.



Śyāmasundara: That's right?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: It's not just a mental image.



Prabhupāda: No, not mental. If the table is thrown upon me, I will fall. Then we cannot say that it is mental image. And it hurts me and blood oozes out; then it is not mental.



Śyāmasundara: He says that even illusions are genuinely real objects which are uncreated by the human mind. In other words, if I think I see a snake and it is actually a piece of rope, but if I think it is a snake, then it really is a snake.



Prabhupāda: That is reality of a snake; otherwise how this imagination comes to me? I have got an idea of snake. Now, in darkness there is a rope. So I may falsely take it as snake. That's doesn't matter. But snake is there. That is our argument.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind never creates anything new. It simply rearranges things. Everything already exists...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...but the mind, and the mind merely arranges it. It doesn't create anything new.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the economic law says that you cannot create anything. You simply transform. Just like this table is nothing but wood. So wood is not my creation. Wood is there, but I have transformed the wood into a state which is called a table.



Śyāmasundara: So that newness or novelty is merely rearranging. Something new, they say, "Oh, he has created something new." But it is merely a rearrangement of previously existing things.



Prabhupāda: That is that English proverb, "Necessity is the cause of invention." I require something to sit down, leaning back side, so I create a chair which is called armchair. So I sense first of all a necessity that "I must sit down very comfortably leaning towards the back." So under such spirit I make this chair, and this is called armchair. So necessity is the mother of invention.



Śyāmasundara: So all new things are created out of necessity?



Prabhupāda: New things means I create a necessity, and then, according to the plan of the necessity, the thing is there. Just like dictaphone. I feel inconvenience to dictate or the secretary has no time to take my dictation. So I may feel that "If I keep record of my dictation, the secretary will take it later on according to his convenience." So therefore the invention of a dictaphone.



Śyāmasundara: Yet many philosophers would say that this is the reason that religion has come about, that man feels a necessity for God, so he invents God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Not invents. He knows God. This is natural. Just like if a sane man is there, so who is the original father? Huh? Just like I have got a father. Everyone knows. My father has a father. His father's father's father... Then who is the original father?



Śyāmasundara: So he can invent his original father.



*Prabhupāda: No. He can simply know by this philosophical research who is the original father. And the Vedānta*-sūtra also says, "God is He who is the original father of everything." Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1].



Śyāmasundara: In a sense, the man is not really inventing a chair either. There is already an idea of chair previously existing. He's just discovering it, something which already exists. Is that correct?



Prabhupāda: Yes, in that sense, that I am feeling the necessity of armchair. My predecessors, they might have felt that chair, they invented. But at the present moment, my predecessor is also gone, the chair is also gone. So invention means the things which I create that was not in existence. That is called invention?



Śyāmasundara: Hm.



Prabhupāda: And discovery: The thing is already there; I simply find it out. So invention and discovery practically convey the same idea.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Because actually nothing is new. If I...



Prabhupāda: That is discovery.



Śyāmasundara: If I invent something...



Prabhupāda: Similarly, in case of God, it is discovery. It is not invention. It is discovery.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Just like the idea of a chair is already there in nature. Nature provides a chair.



Prabhupāda: Nature provides a sitting place. Just like when there is a slab of stone anywhere, I wish to sit down on it. Psychology. Then the next proposal is, "Why not invent something at my home? It is here in a... I cannot take it." You can say the idea was there already, to sit down on a high place comfortably. So I come home and make a chair according to that idea.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind is an emergent, that is, it creates a new organization out of existing things. It emerges new things out of old things. This comes from the idea of evolution.



Prabhupāda: Just like there is gold and there is mountain. So I make a golden mountain. Gold is there, mountain is there. I combine together and make an imagination, golden mountain. Is that like that?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. Similar to that.



Prabhupāda: The things are there. We mix up. So many things. The things are there and I mix up with something else and it can be called an invention.



Śyāmasundara: So then he tries to describe what is this mind. The mind is emergent. It can rearrange things and create new things, arrange new things.



Prabhupāda: Mind creates some idea and again rejects it. It creates another idea. That is mind's business. He is not satisfied by creating something as final. Mind is creative. He creates something and he thinks, "Oh, this is not..." Just like you were making some doll (door?). You don't like it. Again you break it. Then again do it nicely, "Oh, it is not right." Then again break it. That is mind's business.



Śyāmasundara: Accepts and rejects.



Prabhupāda: Reject.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind has two functions also, but he describes them slightly different. He says that first one is contemplation, that is perceiving the qualities of an object. And this is a, it's called a neurological activity. In other words, when the nerve endings in the body react with the qualities of an object. If an object is red, my nerve ending perceives that it is red. This is the object.



Prabhupāda: Just like if there is a tamarind, immediately there is saliva in my tongue.



Śyāmasundara: (laughs) This is what he calls contemplation.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And then the second function of the mind is enjoyment, where there is a mental awareness of an inner, physiological activity as a result of the contemplation.



Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many examples. Just like one man dreams some woman and there is nocturnal discharges. Mind creates like that and there is physical action actually. Mind creates a dream, a tiger, and there is physical action. He is crying loudly, "Here is a tiger. Here is a tiger." Actually, there is no tiger.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that even these mental images in dreams are real, that they have an objective reality.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Objective reality. When I dream of a woman or a tiger, there is objective reality. In dream it may be. There may be no existence of woman or tiger, but there is real existence of tiger, my dreaming. The impression of a tiger in my mind, the impression of a woman in my mind is created as hallucination, and that reacts on my physical life.



Śyāmasundara: He says that even these mental objects have a real existence in my consciousness. As long as I'm thinking there's a tiger about to pounce on me...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...there is a tiger. There is a real object in my consciousness.



Prabhupāda: And because it is real object, it is reacting on my physical life.



*Śyāmasundara: He describes ultimate reality as space*-time. Space and time. He says that time is an infinity of instants, single instants, and that the basis of infinity is a point, and that these two are combined and this is called reality.



Prabhupāda: Infinity of?



Śyāmasundara: Point.



Prabhupāda: Points and?



Śyāmasundara: Infinity of instants.



Prabhupāda: Instinct.



Śyāmasundara: Instant. Like a moment is an instant.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm.



Śyāmasundara: So he calls this ultimate reality. Time and space.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Time is... We take it reality, time. That we accept also. Time is eternal. Reality. And therefore we take time as another feature of God.



Śyāmasundara: And space?



Prabhupāda: Space is later created.



Śyāmasundara: Oh, after time. Oh. And it creates the ultimate reality?



Prabhupāda: No. No. Space is also reality. Space is prakṛti. Prakṛti, kāla, jīva, and Bhagavān. They are all reality.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. Those four things.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. He leaves out entity and Bhagavān. He only has time and space in the ultimate reality.



Prabhupāda: Our philosophy... We see that one ultimate creator, Bhagavān. And jīvātmā, subsequent creator. God has created wood; I create a table and chair. I am subsequent. I am not ultimate creator. So jīvātmā is subsequent creator. Both the creators are eternal. And because the creation has got time connection, past, present, and future, so time is eternal. Time is eternal and jīva is eternal and prakṛti.



Śyāmasundara: Prakṛti means space?



Prabhupāda: Prakṛti means elements. Space is sky. Space is sky. So sky is one of the fundamental factors of prakṛti, space.



Śyāmasundara: Anything which occupies space.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: So there is even spiritual space?



Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Otherwise, how there is spiritual world? The ingredient is different. Otherwise, they're exactly the same. Just like you create plastic tree like this. The plastic tree and this tree, ingredients are the same. The same, that earth, water, air. What is this plastic? It is also a kind of earth. Is it not? You mix with water and put a shape and heat it, it becomes glass and this and that, so many things. Similarly, the whole material creation is also combination and permutation... What is called?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Of these five elements. Especially earth, water and fire. Just like this brick What is this brick? Earth, water, mix and put it into fire. It is brick.



Śyāmasundara: (aside:) Should I turn it off? (?)



*Prabhupāda: And you crush this brick, it becomes mortar. And mix with lime and water. Then it becomes cementing plaster, and put the bricks after bricks with that cement and it becomes house. So ultimately earth, water, and fire. Tejo*-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam, exchange of earth, water, and fire.



Śyāmasundara: And he says that nothing remains at rest, that everything is in perpetual transition.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is accepted. That is called jagat. Gacchati. Everything is going on, forward. That is called jagat.



Śyāmasundara: Even the activities of the spiritual world are like that?



Prabhupāda: No. Spiritual world is different. We are speaking of material world. In spiritual world the activity is eternal. In material world activity is not eternal.



Śyāmasundara: But motion, the motion is eternal because everything is moving.



Prabhupāda: Motion is interaction of the three qualities. Just like you put soda and alkali, alkali and acid together, there is a reaction, effervescence. So both of them are material, but in due course of time it reacts, and then creation takes place.



Śyāmasundara: What about activities in the spiritual sky, beyond...?



Prabhupāda: Activities of the spiritual sky, that is eternal. Everything is eternal there.



Śyāmasundara: But... Isn't there motion?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not motion? Because there is living entities. Living entities means life force. There must be motion.



Śyāmasundara: This is his idea: all of creation means motion. There is motion everywhere.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Without motion, how there can be creation? This is called kṣobha. Nothing is created without motion.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that he wants to find some categories which define the characteristics of everything, that everything possesses these things in common.



*Prabhupāda: That five elements: earth, water, fire, air... Anything you take, these things are there. And subtler things: mind, intelligence, and ego. As it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā that these eight kinds of material elements are differentiated energy of Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: His categories are a little more abstract. He says that the primary category is motion.



Prabhupāda: But wherefrom the motion comes? That is insufficient knowledge. When you... Motion means somebody must move, push on. That is accepted by Professor Einstein. If somebody has pushed, the motion has begun. Now it is going on. Just like in the billiard table, push one ball, "Hut!" And it goes.



Śyāmasundara: Yes. So he says that there are four major categories besides the primary category of motion and they are 1) identity or diversity. Each thing has a personal identity, an individuality, and each thing is different from every other thing.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called sajātīya*-vijātīya bheda in Sanskrit. Different... Sajātīya. Just like two trees, two mango trees, but still there is difference. They are one as mango tree, but this tree is different from that tree. Similarly, the fingers. As finger they are one, but this finger is different from this finger. Although sajātī. Sajātī means of the same category, but there is difference. Although the same category, finger, but this finger is bigger than this finger. The whole body. It's a part of the body. Hand is different from leg. Leg is different from his head. Head is different from palm. Palm is different from sole. There are so many differences. They are called sajātī vijātī.



Śyāmasundara: So the one characteristic that they all have is that they are individuals, that they are individual.



Prabhupāda: Yes. One characteris... One is substance, another is character, character.



Śyāmasundara: Category.



Prabhupāda: Category, yes.



Śyāmasundara: So the second thing that he sees that characterizes everything, that all things possess in common, is existence, or being.



Prabhupāda: That is five elements. Just like there are differences between tree and your body, my body, but this body is made of the five elements: earth, water, air, fire. The tree is also made of the same elements, earth, water, air, fire... The aquatic body, fish's body, is also made of the same ingredients. Only difference is that one ingredient is prominent, other ingredients... Therefore you can take up this fact that there are living entities in the sun. The sun, because it appears fiery, you cannot exist. Your body cannot exist in the fire. But it does not mean there cannot be somebody whose body itself is fire. How can you deny it? And body being fiery, he can stay in the fiery planet of the same temperature.



Śyāmasundara: So the third and fourth categories he sees that relates to everything are relations and order. Everything relates to everything else and there is an order in everything. Everything is part of an order, a grand order.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Prakṛti, there is order. Just like the sun is rising exactly in time. It is setting exactly in time. The sea waves, they are forbidden, "Not to come beyond this limit." Big, big waves are always coming, "Ohn, ohn!" but not beyond this beach (reach?). So there is order. Everything there is order.



Śyāmasundara: Even the mind occupies space and transpires in time. Mind occupies space and works in time. Is that also a fact?



Prabhupāda: Yes. We are occupying space. That's a fact.



Śyāmasundara: The mind also occupies space?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am occupying space, mind is within me. Why not? Mind occupying space, it can be practically experienced. The mind runs immediately, thousand miles away.



Śyāmasundara: But is that thousand miles away in me or does my mind actually travel there.



Prabhupāda: Travels.



Śyāmasundara: Oh. So it occupies space.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless... Suppose... You don't exactly remember now. The mind is going. As soon as reaches, then you can remember. It takes a second, but still, it occupies...



Śyāmasundara: So the mind leaves this body and goes somewhere.



Prabhupāda: Not leave. It is just like a suit (shoot?).



Śyāmasundara: Oh, it extends.



Prabhupāda: Extends.



Śyāmasundara: He says that whatever exists is subject to...



Prabhupāda: At night also, the body also extends and again comes... You forget this body; you are dreaming some body, some other feature of the body. So sometimes you take that body very important.



Śyāmasundara: He says that whatever exists is subject to space and time and to these categories. However, evolution is progressing and new emergents appear in all the qualities which are envisioned to the mystic qualities. That the living entity, or life, he says that it could evolve into new things, other things, other than what we know about because it is continually emerging, evolution is continually emerging to something new.



Prabhupāda: So?



Śyāmasundara: Does this follow with...



Prabhupāda: What is the conclusion?



Śyāmasundara: The conclusion is that everything is evolving into ever newer and newer forms, and in the future that...



Prabhupāda: Old order changes, yielding place to new. This law?



Śyāmasundara: Yes. But this new form which may appear in the future, we may have no idea about it now. We may not be able to say what it is, what it will be like.



Prabhupāda: No. We don't think like that. We know that the days are going on. As we have experienced past, summer season and winter season, then forward also, we can say in such and such month there will be summer season. In such and such month there will be winter season. Either you take it from book or take it from our past experience, the things are there.



Śyāmasundara: So in the future there may be nothing unpredictable appearing, such as an entire new form of existence or something like this.



Prabhupāda: No. Why? In future... Just like seasonal changes. There will be winter season. So what is the wonder there? I have got past experience of winter, so I am saying that "In such and such month there will be winter."



Bhavānanda: Of course, it could come about that there was no winter. A point could be reached, he's saying, that where there would be no winter.



Śyāmasundara: Where winter may disappear.



Bhavānanda: Disappear or, they say the experience on this planet is that one time summer stopped and that everything became covered with ice. I have no experience with that.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Śyāmasundara: Just like in the past they say there was an ice age when there was no summer, no heat, and everything became ice, so in the future..., I cannot predict... Evolution may carry the events into some entirely strange new way, novel combination. Like winter may disappear or summer may disappear or...



Prabhupāda: No.



Bhavānanda: Or a new species may come out.



Śyāmasundara: A new type of man.



Prabhupāda: No. No. That is not possible. Everything is there. That is the Vedic version. They say that so many species in the water, so many species on land, so many moving... It is all fixed up. There is no question of increasing or decreasing.



Bhavānanda: But they have predicted a species of man, a type of man in the future who would have no hair on his body and whose head would be very, very big because of an increased brain capacity, but whose body would be atrophied. The arms and legs of the man they predict in the future is going to become more and more secondary.



Prabhupāda: Who predicted? Who is that fool? (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: They say that man will lose some of his toes because he will cease activities, his activity will become...



Prabhupāda: This is another foolishness. It has never become, neither it will be.



Bhavānanda: Man has always had five toes.



Prabhupāda: That's right.



Bhavānanda: And he always will. However, is there, if there is a species of a type of men that have eight toes on each foot, he's always had eight toes on each foot. He might not be on this planet.



Prabhupāda: We don't care any such things.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that man may evolve to a demigod platform in the future.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: That he will have super consciousness, this and that.



*Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Yānti deva-vratā devaṇ [Bg. 9.25]. If you become fond of the demigods, you go to the demigods. Pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. You can go to the Pitṛloka. Or bhūtejyā, you can remain in this material world.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that evolution is passed through five stages. In the beginning there was merely space and time and the categories, this object. Then there was a development of primary qualities through multiple sense perception. In other words, living entities began to perceive objects through different sense perceptions. Then there was the secondary qualities were developed through perception by one organ. In other words, out of a multiple sense quality, an eye developed, a nose developed, a mouth developed.



Prabhupāda: That is the process of body. I have explained several times that after the secretion of the male and the female, they together emulsify and forms a pealike body. And that develops into this body. Gradually, there are holes. The holes become eyes, ears, nose, rectum, like that. So when the body, creation of body is complete, then the child comes out.



Śyāmasundara: He says that after the secondary sense perceptions are developed, then life develops and then mind develops.



Prabhupāda: Mind is also created. That we admit.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that in this way there are...



Prabhupāda: Mind, ego, intelligence, everything is created of elements.



Śyāmasundara: This, parallel to this is the idea is first there were the ingredients of nature, then there was very simple forms of life, then more developed forms of life, then human life. And he says in the next stage will be deity life or demigod life. And in this sixth level of life, he says that men will be able to more than just enjoy the qualities of mental experience, that they will be able to contemplate things as they are. They will be able to contemplate rather than just enjoy. They will be able to contemplate.



Prabhupāda: Now let us stop. We shall discuss tomorrow. [break]



Śyāmasundara: Yesterday we were discussing this philosophy of emergent evolution. The theory behind it is in the beginning there was merely space and time and categories and then this developed to a level of primary sense perception, then to a level of secondary sense perception, then to a level of organic life, and then to a level of mind, mental life. And now, his theory is that the next level will be called deity, or a sort of demigod level of consciousness, in which men will be able to not only enjoy the objects of contemplation but be able to contemplate them, really, (?) in reality.



Prabhupāda: So that is Vedic process.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that all of evolution is going that way, nature is tending that way. And nature has progressed in different steps from inorganic life to organic life, to mental life, and now to demigod life.



Prabhupāda: From organic... Inorganic life? What is that inorganic life?



Śyāmasundara: Space and time and the categories of...



Prabhupāda: Where is the life there?



Śyāmasundara: Life develops from inorganic matter is his theory. It is merely a higher level of organization, inorganic life.



Prabhupāda: That means life developed from matter?



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. How life develops from matter? Where is the, evidence? Why do they not manufacture life from matter in the laboratory? It is simply a statement. It has no value. Because you cannot produce living force from matter. Matter is different and living force, soul, is different. (In) one sense, of course, they are the energy of God, but still, categorically, they are different. So far these materialists are concerned, where is the proof that from matter, life has developed? So why they do not manufacture life in the laboratory? Even an ant you cannot manufacture. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you manufacture life? So this theory cannot be accepted.



*Śyāmasundara: They trace back... Their so*-called evidence is just mostly see that geological calculations. They see that at a certain period... They go further down into the earth's surface.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Śyāmasundara: All kinds of life disappear and there is simply rock. And they say the beginning was merely rock and water; then organic life came out.



*Prabhupāda: No. That is not organic life. The soul appears in different ways. One of the ways is by fermentation, perspiration. So rock and water, when it is decomposed there is fermentation and there is possibility of soul taking advantage and come out with a body. In any case, from matter life never comes. It is compared with... Taṇḍula*-vṛścika-nyāya. A vṛścika, a scorpion, is coming out from rice. Actually, a scorpion down lays eggs within the heaps of rice, and by fermentation of the rice, heating, the egg, I mean to say, produces a small scorpion, and it comes out from the rice. So foolish people, they think that the heaps of rice is the cause of producing a scorpion. So many things come like that, but that does not mean the matter is producing life. If matter is producing life, the modern science, so much advanced, so let them prove in the laboratory, mixing some matter, life is coming. That fermentation, that is accepted in the Vedic language. By fermentation living creatures come out.



Śyāmasundara: So it is only because the soul finds refuge there.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: What about this idea that nature...



Prabhupāda: Mister (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Give him one āsana.



Śyāmasundara: That nature is progressing. What about this idea that nature, or evolution, is progressing?



Prabhupāda: The same nonsense idea. Evolution is not progressing. Everything is there, but it is being manifested when the living soul takes shelter.



Śyāmasundara: But do you think that there will become a level of demigods, a race of demigods?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods, according to Vedic system, demigods... (Hindi:) Aiye. Demigods were created before man was created. (Hindi:) Aiye. Jaya. Demigods, just like demigod, Lord Brahmā, he was first created. From Brahmā, Lord Śiva was created. Then... Created means born, not created. So similarly, from Brahmā, other, Dakṣa, he was created, so many, one after..., Prajāpatis, then Manus.



Śyāmasundara: So even before inorganic life there was...



Prabhupāda: There is no such thing, from inorganic life. Inorganic life... Suppose just like Brahmā is coming from the navel of Viṣṇu. So where is the... We don't get any information. Viṣṇu is origin, and from Viṣṇu, Brahmā came. From Brahmā, other demigods came, other animals came. They create animals and others. The first created being is Brahmā, the most intelligent. He's not animal. Their proposal is from lower to the higher, but our theory is from the higher, from Viṣṇu. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. "I am the origin of everything." Now, how you can say there is development from the lower creatures? He is the origin. And Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The origin, Absolute Truth, is that from whom everything is generating. So Absolute Truth means He is the supreme life. From life, life is coming. Where is the evidence that dead stone giving birth to a man or animal? Where is the evidence?



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that in future everyone will be a demigod, that the race of man, because of mental life, will be replaced by a race of superconscious beings.



Prabhupāda: Superconscious beings, there are already existing, just like in Siddhaloka and Gandharvaloka. There are many planets.



Śyāmasundara: This earth planet will become like that.



Prabhupāda: No. We don't get such information. Why they are so much anxious about the earth planet? There are many millions of planets. So super human being there... Just like we learn from the śāstras, in the Siddhaloka they can fly from one planet to another. Not only that, all the yogic siddhis, they are, naturally they have got. Just like we are trying to fly in the sky, that is not natural, but a small bird, he can fly. It is God's creation. So similarly, there are many human beings in the Siddhaloka. They, without any airplane, without any..., they can fly. They go from one planet to another. Not that this, from this planet they have developed. They are already existing.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that nature develops towards that point. The body develops better and better to that point.



Prabhupāda: That is another..., the same rascal proposal. Body never develops. There are different types of body and the soul take shelter of one particular body. The same example, that in the tailor shop there are many shirts and coats. It is not that a shirt is developing into coat, neither the coat is developed into shirt. But there are many varieties of shirts and coat. If you go, you put on, and when the shirt or coat moves, the rascal thinks that it is the shirt and coat is moving. Shirt and coat never moves. The man, or the living entity, within the shirt and coat, he is moving. And therefore as soon as he is out, the shirt and coat, this body, is dead. It has no value.



Śyāmasundara: So according to the desire of the soul, he...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantor dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Karmaṇā. Just like you get a shirt and coat according to the price you pay, similarly, by your karma, you get a particular type of body.



Śyāmasundara: So if one was prepared to pay for such demigod existence, he could have it.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigod... That is called puṇya*-karma. Just like they are going to Candraloka. According to Vedic scripture, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. If you worship the particular demigods, then you are promoted in that loka.



Śyāmasundara: It's not that accidentally nature will evolve a race of demigods on this planet.



*Prabhupāda: No, no. There is nothing accidental. It is not that accidental, one becomes high*-court judge. (laughter) This is nonsense. Accidental(ly) one becomes a very high grade medical man. This is all childish proposal. They have no sense even. It is all childish. Where is the, in our practical life, where is the evidence that accidentally one has become like this? Is there any evidence of how they propose these childish things? I do not know. And they are passing as philosophers.



Śyāmasundara: Occasionally, for instance, there will be some great genius born in a family, and they will say that somehow or other, nature has produced this genius. The parents are not so intelligent.



*Prabhupāda: No. Genius means he, in his previous life, he cultured, and next life is being manifested. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yogo bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. So yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ, one who could not finish his yogic activities perfectly, he is given chance. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe. Not that accidental.



Śyāmasundara: So through the practice of some kind of yoga system, men develop higher consciousness.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also, we are practicing, bhakti*-yoga.



Śyāmasundara: Otherwise...



*Prabhupāda: No. Without your... This is the thing, you have to gain by your own endeavor. Other things naturally come in. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Therefore śāstra says, "For that perfection, one should devote his life." Here people are taught to struggle how to get material comforts, but according to Vedic system, material comforts you will have whatever is destined to you. But so far your spiritual development is concerned, you have to understand that you are spirit soul and you can develop yourself to go back to the spiritual world, you can be associated with the Lord. So many things, spiritual activities. So the śāstra says that one should try to achieve spiritual perfection, and for that he should endeavor. Not for material comforts. Material comforts will come to you as material distress come upon you. You don't ask for material distress, but it comes. Similarly, material comforts also will come automatically. So there is no need of wasting time. Just like see in the nature there are so many millions of living entities. They have no business, they have no profession. These birds, early in the morning, they have no fixed (?) (figs?). But they know there is food somewhere. They go to a tree and enough fruits there are you eat. Āhāra*-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. They have got their nest upon the tree, and another female bird is there already. So he has sex life and they try to defend themselves in their own way. So these things, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, these four things, by nature it is already given. You haven't got to try for it. Simply you have to try for spiritual emancipation. That endeavor should be engaged.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that in this higher state of consciousness, rather than just enjoying objects, that one is able to contemplate them as they are, to understand them as they are. One is able to understand objects, things, as they are. Most people are on the level... On the mental level, we are capable of enjoying objects; they give us pleasure, but we are unable to understand them as they are. But in this higher level, he says that people will be able to understand things as they are, as well as enjoy them.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our philosophy. Just like common man is seeing a rose flower, but a devotee is studying that rose flower, "How God's energy is acting that through His energy such a nice thing has come out. Therefore it should be offered to Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's property." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. "It is Kṛṣṇa's production, it is Kṛṣṇa's property. So it should be offered to Kṛṣṇa." And devotee, after offering it to Kṛṣṇa, then, as prasādam, he smells. This is higher consciousness. In the lower consciousness: "Oh, here is a beautiful flower. Let me take it and enjoy it."



Śyāmasundara: Pure enjoyment without any understanding.



*Prabhupāda: This is the difference between lower consciousness and higher consciousness. An animal eating, he is also eating. A man is eating. The man should be developed consciousness that eatable is given by Kṛṣṇa. As it is stated in the Vedas, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. "The Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life." So "Kṛṣṇa has given me these necessities of life, so first of all let me offer it to Kṛṣṇa." That is called yajña. That is called yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma*-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyanti sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Yajña means Viṣṇu. For Viṣṇu, for Kṛṣṇa, everything should be done. Otherwise, he will be entanglement. So this is called higher consciousness, fructified consciousness. Just like the flower has got different stages: bud stage, then little grown, then little... Once you'll find it fully grown, nice, beautiful rose, and fragrant. That is, when a human being comes to that full grown consciousness, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the whole world, the process of world evolution is moving toward that point.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Toward that point, nature is giving chance, but because you are living entity, you have got independence, you may not take the chance.



Śyāmasundara: Your idea is more that certain individuals will attain that point, but not the world as a whole.



*Prabhupāda: No. World as a whole will... Just like we are... Kṛṣṇa is teaching that "Surrender unto Me," but who is taking Kṛṣṇa's teaching? That is independence. If Kṛṣṇa is assuring that "You just surrender unto Me, and I give you protection from all resultant action of sinful activities,"... People suffer for sinful activities. Just like we are keeping the account nicely so that when we present to the government they may not see any flaw. So we are keeping account nicely. That means we are trying to save ourself from sinful activities. And if there is discrepancies in the account, that is sinful activity. So as soon as there is discrepancy, one has to suffer. So Kṛṣṇa says... But the material world is so made that even if you do not want to act sinfully, unconsciously you will act so many things sinfully. Unconsciously. Even you have no desire. Just like we had done that. Unconsciously we did not take the certificate, and we are suffering. There was no intention to violate this rule, but unconsciously we did not do it. Now we have to suffer. So similarly, unconsciously or consciously, we are acting so many things sinful. Just like when you are walking on the street, you have no desire to kill animals, but on account of your walking, so many ants are being killed. So you are responsible for that. Therefore that vyādha, that hunter, he was jumping. He knows. He has become devotee. So he knows that "Any creature may not die." So he was jumping. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person knows that "I cannot kill even an ant." But unconsciously or consciously, we kill. Suppose we are drinking water. There are so many germs we are killing. And when you rub the spices, there are so many germs are killed. When you ignite fire, so many germs are killed. Therefore Vedic injunction is that pañcasuna*-yajña. You must perform yajña daily so that you may be saved from the sinful activities you have committed unconsciously. So that cannot be saved. But Kṛṣṇa says that "Just surrender unto Me and I will give you protection from the resultant action of any kind of sinful activities, consciously or unconsciously." And why the people are not taking advantage of it?



Śyāmasundara: So you don't see that the whole world will evolve to this.



Prabhupāda: No. That is a nonsense proposal. It is a nonsense proposal. Just like sometimes we are questioned by some rascals that "Swamijī, if everyone becomes God conscious, goes to back to home, then who will remain here?" (laughter) Just see the nonsense. He is anxious, who will remain here. He is not anxious for himself. (laughter) It is an argument that "Everyone becomes honest, then who will go to the jail? (laughter) To keep up the jail is very important business. You see? So these are foolish questions. You see?



Śyāmasundara: In his time, 1880, 1890, everyone was very optimistic about the future of man. They thought, through scientific discovery, that everyone would become...



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense because they think, "Whatever we like, by nature's way we shall be promoted." Just like in some meeting in Mombassa somebody asked that, after... Some Aurobindo group, that... No, theosophist. That one man is there; he has no degree. So why not degree?



Śyāmasundara: ...then he goes back.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If he has got elevation, he has degradation. This is common sense affairs. If you become rich, you can become poor also. Why that once you become rich and there is no question of becoming poor? Is that guaranteed? These nonsense questions are asked even by so*-called theosophist and so many there are. You see. They have no common sense even.



Śyāmasundara: His definition of God is that God is the source in nature to support and produce values. What is good, what is true, values, this is God, the source of these values.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is value. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me and all questions solved." So it has value. That we also admit. But it is up to me to accept that value or not. That independence God has given me. Otherwise, everyone would have been Kṛṣṇa conscious and surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Why they are not doing that? Even God is value, to accept that value depends on me.



Śyāmasundara: He said that God is the whole universe and that we are parts and parcels, that man is part and parcel of God.



*Prabhupāda: Part and parcel, that is explained in Bhagavad*-gītā. Every living entity. Why man? Every living entity is part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. But they take that "Cow is not living entity. It has no soul. So let us eat. It is eatable." That is their nonsense philosophy. That is not fact. Everyone. Even the... All living entities are part and parcel of God.



Śyāmasundara: These evolutionists, they consider... They don't think there is a soul. They think that the cow is an organism, and we are just more advanced organisms. So we have the right to slaughter the cow because we are more advanced.



Prabhupāda: Now, tiger is more advanced. He has the right to kill you. Why you say you are advanced? Why you ere claiming that you are advanced? When a tiger is there, he kills you and eats you. He is more advanced.



Śyāmasundara: He is more fit to survive.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do they not say like that?



Śyāmasundara: But we have developed high powered rifles to kill tigers.



Prabhupāda: Well, that is defense. So the tiger has also defense: claws and nails. So defense will be... When there is fight between man to man, does it mean because man is highly developed and he will not be killed? When there is fight between man to man there is chance of one being killed. So similarly, when there is fight between tiger and you, one being killed, what is your superiority? Simply nonsensical. Simply nonsensical. Therefore our conclusion, "Simply rascal," is perfect. Anyone who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is simply rascal. That's all.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that once one has emerged through a process of evolution, once one has emerged to the higher types of evolution or the so*-called deity form, he sees that the lower deities or the inferior..., the lower organisms would strive to emulate him, to become like him. Just like the animals would strive to become like men.



*Prabhupāda: This is not striving. By nature's way the lower animals, they come to the platform of man. Jīva*-jātiṣu paryayaḥ, it is called. Paryayaḥ means one after another. There is nature's help. Up to the human being, that law works. And human being, being developed conscious, so he has got the power of discrimination. Because originally the soul is given independence. Just like Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. "Whatever you like, you do." That is the original connection. God is the Supersoul; *we are soul, under Him, subordinate. So we are called taṭastha, means marginal. Marginal means we can remain either way. Either on God's side or māyā's side. That is my choice. So when we don't want to serve God, then we are sent to the māyā, to serve māyā. Māyā means his position as servant remains the same, but he thinks "I am master." That is māyā. He is Just like a child trying to do something father does not like. But when he cries, he's given that. "All right. Do this." But "All right, do this" or "Do that," he is under the father. He is under the control of the father. But when he is given such chance, "Oh, I am independent now. I am independent." So this is called māyā. He's never independent, but he thinks, "I am independent." Similarly, here also Just like we Indians, we have got independence. So what kind of independence? In British period there was not so much dependence. These rascal laws, that you have to go So many things. You cannot move now. In British period the Indians had independence to move all over the world by expenditure. Now we cannot go. So we have got independence, but we have become dependent in so many ways. This is called māyā. So whole world, they are thinking that "I am independent. My nation is independent." Nobody is independent. Everyone is dependent under the laws of material nature. When death comes, nobody is independent. Either American, Indian, or There is no question of independence. But when we think that "I am independent," although I am dependent in so many respects, that is māyā. That is māyā. Māyā means what he is thinking, that is not fact. That is called māyā. Mā*-yā. What you are thinking, that is not a fact. So daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. So he is continually serving the māyā, life after life, but still he is thinking, "I am independent." So the right intelligence is, actual independence is, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. When you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that is your real independence.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that all lower forms of life strive to emulate the higher forms of life.



*Prabhupāda: That is natural. Everyone wants to become higher than what he is. Because he is trying to become master. He is trying to... His whole problems is that he is trying to be master. So he comes to master to some extent. Suppose he is working in an office, he is a head clerk, master of several clerks. So he is not satisfied. He wants to become a superintendent. When he becomes a superintendent, he wants to be under*-secretary. When he is under-secretary, he wants to become secretary. When he becomes a secretary, he wants to become minister. When he is made minister, then he wants to be the president. And when he becomes a president, he wants to control all over the world, just like your Nixon. So this progressive ambition is there in the material world because any materialistic man is implanted with the idea that "I shall become like Kṛṣṇa." So when he fails everything, then he wants to merge into the Kṛṣṇa. Māyāvāda philosophy. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. He does not know that... He is already Brahman, but he thinks that "I am the Supreme Brahman. I am moving the sun. I am moving the..." Meditating. He is moving the sun. He is moving... Just another imitate. That is the last snare of māyā. Māyā is giving him allurement that "You become a minister, you become secretary, you become a big merchant, you become a Birla. You..." "Become become become." (S)he is always dictating, and he is working under the dictation of māyā. The last dictation is, "Then you have failed all these things. Better you become God." (laughter) So he thinks, "I am God." And māyā is still kicking. As soon as God gets some toothache, he'll have to, another... So he goes... "After all, what kind of God you are? You come here for toothache cure." This is another man.



Śyāmasundara: And actually it may be true that the lower forms are trying to emulate the higher forms, but it is also the reverse is true. Just like the hippies, they are trying to emulate the hogs.



Prabhupāda: Well, the hippies, they are nonsense. What is the value of their anything? They have no value. They are crazy, mad fellows. That's all. There is no philosophy, nothing of the sort.



Śyāmasundara: He calls... What you said is that māyā is the urge within nature to desire the next step of evolution.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: He wants this, he wants that. Is that right?



Prabhupāda: Next step... No. Up to human form of life, by nature one is making progress automatically. One after this, one after this. That evolution. Jalajā nava... Just like from aquatics, you become trees, plants. (aside:) Telephone. Telephone. Somebody go. From trees, you become insect. From insect, you become birds or reptiles. From birds, you become beast. From beast, you become a human being. This is going on by nature's way. Just like a goat. A goat has to live in this body for certain years. Then he becomes something, other animal, and he has to live in that body for some years. Then he becomes another body. This is change . In this way he comes to the human form of life when his consciousness is developed. Now, when... Amongst the human form of life, there are many species of human form of life. So when one comes to..., I may say, in India, when he's born in India, that is the highest perfectional point because there is Vedic knowledge. So he can take advantage of the Vedic knowledge. And by taking advantage of Vedic knowledge, he understands that "I am part and parcel of God. Therefore my real business is to go back to God. Why I am suffering in this material world?" That is perfectional stage.



Śyāmasundara: But the urge to improve oneself, to attain the next stage...



Prabhupāda: This is the urge for improvement. Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that "All living entities are My part and parcels." This instruction can be accepted only by human beings, not the cats and dogs. Although He claims that "Every living entity is My part and parcel," the cats and dogs, they have no capacity to understand these, I mean to say, utterances of the Personality of Godhead. Even he has got an ear. You are hearing, a dog may hear. But you can capture; the dog cannot capture. Due to his lower grade of body, he cannot. So in this higher grade of body, the Vedic instructions are there. Now you can make your choice. Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. As Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "Whatever you like you can do." So now it depends upon you. If you don't accept the real progressive life, understand Kṛṣṇa and surrender unto Him, then you will go back.



Śyāmasundara: Is it not that because our real nature is perfect that we're always striving to become perfect again? Striving to reach that point again?



Prabhupāda: Yes, your nature is perfect. Perfect means you have got independence also. So you can perfectly misuse also, independence. That is perfect.



Śyāmasundara: But there is always that urge, even among the lower animals, to improve themselves, be promoted.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being done by nature. That is evolution. Darwin has taken this idea from the *Vedas*, but he has no soul idea.



Śyāmasundara: But he mentions the point, what is that urge? Why do I want to improve? What is that urge that makes me want to...



*Prabhupāda: It is not his urge. Nature is giving him the impetus. Just like when you are young, there is no sex urge. When you are a small boy, there is no sex urge, but as soon as you come to a certain stage, say, sixteen years, you immediately... The sex urge is there within you, but it was not developed in your childhood. But as soon as you go, come to the youth*-hood, there is. Similarly, the perfection of consciousness is there, but unless you come to the stage of human being, that is not developed.



Śyāmasundara: In the animals it may take the form of trying to survive. That's all. The animals want to survive. They want to live.



Prabhupāda: Their only business is how to eat, how to sleep. Where to get eating, eatable things. That is their business. They have no other business.



Śyāmasundara: It is said that the low form of striving to improve...



Prabhupāda: That is struggle for existence you can say. They are simply trying to live. They have no other ambition. That's all. But if a man..., if the living soul, after having come to the stage of human being, if he also simply tries for these four things, eating, sleeping, mating and defending, then he is no better than animal. So nowadays in the modern civilization, simply these things are taught: how you can live comfortably with a car, with a bungalow...



Śyāmasundara: So the urge, the urge to improve or to advance...



Prabhupāda: (aside, Hindi:) Aiye aiye. Give them something, sitting place. Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Śyāmasundara: The urge to advance is there in the human more developed. How does that...?



Prabhupāda: You can give this side. This side. Yes. Why not this fan is running? What is that? All right. Let them sit.



Śyāmasundara: In the human beings, we can see that everyone has the urge to become something better or something more.



Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. They can understand English. Ah, yes.



Śyāmasundara: We notice that in all human entities there is an urge to advance or improve oneself, to become something more.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That I have already explained. Because all living entities have come into this material world, their propensity is to enjoy. Enjoy. So he is enjoying one standard of life in one stage of life. But he wants more, better standard. Better standard. The spirit is enjoyment. That is the disease of material science.



Śyāmasundara: So the urge has become perverted. The urge to advance has become perverted to the urge to enjoy.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, perverted, perverted. His position is to serve, but... He is serving his senses, but he's thinking that "I am enjoying." This is called māyā. Actually, he is serving his senses. Just see, to enjoy, to make money, how much they are working hard, day and night. Yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham [SB 7.9.45]. They are working so hard, but because there is hope that "I shall become millionaire," he is thinking happy. Actually, he is working very hard. More than an animal. More than an animal. Animals, they work hard, but as soon as they get some food they are satisfied. But human being is not satis He will eat only that four capatis, but he is not satisfied. That is the nature's. The Bhāgavata says that human being is so passionate that he works hard, very hard, and he thinks that "I am happy." He thinks, "I am happy."



Śyāmasundara: This urge to become something more is bad.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is māyā. That is māyā. He cannot be happy in any position. He cannot be happy. But he thinks that "I'll be happy. If I go to that place, or that position." Just like the modern scientists, they have finished their all happiness here. Now they are, they are trying, "If we go to Candraloka, then we shall be happy."



Śyāmasundara: But isn't this urge to advance... He says this urge to advance is the desire to become godly.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: Everyone wants to become godly...



*Prabhupāda: No, no. The desire, desire means that he has lost his real happiness. His real happiness is with God, dancing with God. Just like gopīs, they are dancing with God. That is real happiness. That is his nature. Ānandamayaḥ abhyāsāt. Vedānta*-sūtra says that "By nature he wants ānanda, ānanda." But because he is seeking ānanda in a perverted way, he is being confused and frustrated. Therefore he is thinking "Not this stage, that stage will give me happiness." So when he goes to that stage, he again finds unhappiness. Because he is wrongly selecting, that "This is the stage of my happiness."



Śyāmasundara: And then eventually he'll reach the point where he realizes, "All that is unhappiness," and then he will turn to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



*Prabhupāda: No. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, the most confidential part of knowledge, that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This will give you happiness because constitutionally you are made like that. Therefore in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka there is happiness, eternal happiness because they are all surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Just like in Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana, ell the gopīs, all the cowherd boys, all the cows, all the trees, everyone-simply center is Kṛṣṇa. How Kṛṣṇa will be happy.



Śyāmasundara: So everyone is striving to return to that stage...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: ...and they have simply perverted their drive...



Prabhupāda: Therefore they are confused and frustrated. This is called māyā.



Śyāmasundara: Their advancement is misplaced.



Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, māyār bośe yāccho bese kācho hābuḍubu bhāi. Just like one man is being carried away by the waves and he is sometimes dipping, sometimes coming out, sometimes dipping, sometimes So our position is like that, that we are being carried away by the waves of this material nature and we are sometimes being drowned, sometimes coming out. When we come out, we breathe little. We think, "We are now happy." He forgets that "Again I shall have to be drowned." So in this way we struggle. This is called struggle for existence. And "fittest" means when we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, then our fitness is spiritual. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: But still, there is that urge to become godly, to be godlike.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He is godly. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is the realization, "I am Brahman." But he is thinking "I am matter. I am this body." That is the cause of his unhappiness.



Śyāmasundara: So this urge is what's propels all of evolution. Everyone is striving to advance back to that stage of Godhead.



Prabhupāda: Yes, nature, in lower life, lower animal life, nature is giving him, "Yes, you come to this, come to this, come to this, come to this." Like that.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the next stage of evolution, the qualities of the next stage we cannot know at this point.



Prabhupāda: No. He cannot... He does not know, but we know. (chuckles) He has no... He is unfortunate. He has no connection with Kṛṣṇa; therefore he does not know. But one who has got Kṛṣṇa as his master, as his teacher, he knows everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is the Vedic injunction. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. That's all.



Śyāmasundara: He says that man, being a part of God, that he is capable of cooperating with God to make further progress in the universe.



*Prabhupāda: That is... Yes. That is his life, to cooperate with God. That is his real life. But here in this material world he is simply noncooperating. He's simply noncooperating. Unless he is noncooperating, why Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." That is simply noncoop... Anything here, karma, jñāna, yoga, anything... Other animal life, you throw away. Even in the higher level of human life, where karma is regulated, jñāna is there, knowledge is there, and yoga is there, but because there is no surrender to Kṛṣṇa, they will not help you to become happy. So that... Caitanya*-caritāmṛta says bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakale aśānta. Aśānta means restless. Restless. Bhukti means karmīs. They want simply sense enjoyment. They are called karmīs. And mukti, the jñānīs, they want mukta, mukti. So they also want something. The karmīs, they want everything for sense gratification. When they fail sense gratification, then one wants mukti. That is also another demand. Another demand. Ordinarily, they are demanding, "Give me nice building. Give me nice motor car, nice wife, nice money, bank balance, give me this, give me this, give me this." Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpapati bhājaṁ dehi yaśo dehi. Dehi dehi dehi. This is karmī. And when he is frustrated, after asking many, many times, even becoming Birla, he is not satisfied, then next he wants, "I want mukti." That is also another demand, subtle demand. And the yogis, they also demanding, "Give me this mystic power. I shall become smaller than the smallest, heavier than the heaviest. I can fly. I can walk over the water." These are yoga-siddhis, eight kind of yoga-siddhis. So they are also demanding. Only kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Kṛṣṇa bhakta has no demand. "Sir, I am your eternal servitor. I surrender unto You. Now you do whatever you like with me." So therefore he has no demand. So only Kṛṣṇa bhakta can be peaceful. No other else. Either karmīs, jñānīs, or yogis, nobody is peaceful. Kṛṣṇa also says that



*bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ

*sarva*-loka-maheśvaram

*suhṛdaṁ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

[Bg. 5.29]



This is śānti. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme enjoyer, bhokta, He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend, then he becomes śānta. That is peacefulness.



Śyāmasundara: He says that man should cooperate with God to usher in the next stage of higher consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And in this respect man is responsible for evolution. Man...



Prabhupāda: Well, when we speak of... When he is prepared to cooperate with God, that is the highest evolution. That is the highest... Nobody wants to cooperate with God. Everyone wants to noncooperate with God.



Śyāmasundara: He says it's within man's hands, that man is responsible for the next stage of evolution.



*Prabhupāda: What is that next stage of evolution? If he surrenders, that is the highest evolution, highest platform. Then simply enjoyment. There is no more evolution. Evolution, ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada*-pañcarātra]. If you have come to the point to worship the Supreme Lord, ārādhito yadi haris, then there is no more question of evolution. Tapasā tataḥ kim. Tapasā, tapasya, austerity, penance, they are required for elevation. So ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. When you are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, there is no more question of evolution. That is the highest evolution. And Bhagavad-gītā also says,



māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



*He is already Brahman. Anyone who is engaged in the service of the Lord, avyabhicāriṇi, without any adulteration, pure devotion, then he is already Brahman. He hasn't got to seek for again becoming Brahman. Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate, sa guṇān sama... He immediately transcends all the three guṇas, the sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. And brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, he is Brahman. Without becoming Brahman, how he can serve the Supreme Brahman?



Śyāmasundara: So the next stage of evolution, if it is to be higher stage than the present man...



*Prabhupāda: Higher stage, that evolution they do not know. Just like in Vaiṣṇava philosophy, śānta dāsya sākhya vātsalya mādhurya. The first, when you have come brahma*-bhūtaḥ stage, that is called śānta. "Oh, God is..." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. When one understands. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], after many, many births, when one comes to this conclusion that "Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa is everything," sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, that is śānta stage, mahātmā, great soul. Then, from śānta stage, the development is dāsya stage, to serve Kṛṣṇa. Not simply appreciating Vāsudeva. "Vāsudeva is great, God is so great." Not so much, simply appreciation. "Oh, God is so great? Then I must give some service to God." That is next stage. Dāsya-rasa. Then next stage is vātsalya-rasa..., sākhya-rasa, to give service to God just like Arjuna. Arjuna gave service to Kṛṣṇa but as a friend. That is called sākhya-rasa. Then vatsalya-rasa, to give service to Kṛṣṇa just like mother Yaśodā. She has become mother. Mother gives always service to the baby, his (her) child, and Kṛṣṇa is passing His childhood pastimes before mother Yaśodā. Mother Yaśodā is always thinking, "Kṛṣṇa is hungry. Oh, Kṛṣṇa is getting skinny. I must feed Him. I must protect Him from the monkeys. I must protect Him from fire." Always anxious how to give protection to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving protection everyone, but the devotee has become so great that Kṛṣṇa is taking his protection, her protection. Then, after vātsalya, then mādhurya-rasa, the gopīs or girlfriends. And of all of them, Rādhārāṇī is the highest. She is trying to make happy Kṛṣṇa in so many ways, sixty-four arts: how to dance, how to cook, how to make peace, how to smile, and Kṛṣṇa is captivated by Rādhārāṇī. Therefore the devotee says Kṛṣṇa is Madana-Mohana, He can captivate Madana. But Rādhārāṇī is Madana-Mohana-Mohinī. She captivates even Madana-Mohana. That is the highest stage of mahā-bhāva, Rādhārāṇī's stage. So in the spiritual life there are so many developments. Although there is no difference. It is not that those who are serving Kṛṣṇa as friends just like cowherds boy, and as Rādhārāṇī is serving Kṛṣṇa as consort, there is no difference in value, but spiritually there is estimation of value. Rādhārāṇī's stage is the highest stage.



Śyāmasundara: So if this platform of consciousness is to be attained by everyone, it is the responsibility of men to cooperate with God...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That cooperation begins when God says that "You surrender unto Me," and if he agrees, that cooperation begins.



Śyāmasundara: In other words, it won't happen automatically.



Prabhupāda: Unless you surrender, where is the cooperation? Where is the cooperation? Just like all my disciples, because they have surrendered, so there is cooperation. Therefore this movement is increasing. Otherwise, alone what can we do? Because you are cooperating with me, therefore I am advancing this movement. If you noncooperate with me, I am old man. What can I do? So similarly, Lord Caitanya comes, Kṛṣṇa, to invite cooperation. He says that "Please cooperate with me. Let me spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness."



*Śyāmasundara: He says that there is freedom of the will in two different senses. One, activity that is surely not subject to compulsion by extraneous forces, and... Activity that is merely not subject to compulsion by extraneous forces, and expression of integrated, self*-directing persons acting in a purposeful, coherent way in order to serve the best interest of all. In other words there is the freedom of the will, which is merely not subject to extraneous forces, and there is also the self-directing free will, who is aware of ethical values, and he is...



Prabhupāda: That two cooperation, two kinds of cooperation is going on. Just like in a state a citizen is cooperating as a free citizen. The same citizen is cooperating in the prison by force. The jail superintendent says, "Now you break these bricks." He has to do; otherwise he'll be punished. He is cooperating by force. But this cooperation is inferior cooperation. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. By constitutional position, a living entity is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. In the Vaikuṇṭha jagat, the cooperation, the service is voluntary. And here in this material world the service is forced because it is māyā. Just like in the jail the service is there. One who declares that "I don't care for the government. I break all the laws." But he is put into jail. There is no question of breaking the laws, but by law he has to work forcibly. He has to do it. So here in this material world we are working under force of māyā. That is called daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. That force you cannot avoid. You cannot avoid. Only you can avoid when you voluntarily cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.



Śyāmasundara: He's using the sense of free will in two senses. Just like I would drive down the right side of the road because I know that it's the law. So I want to obey the law. And then the other sense would be I want to drive down the right side of the street in order not to harm anyone and for so many other reasons, a higher type of use of free will. One is automatic, one is more thoughtful.



Prabhupāda: So automatic cooperation is bhakti, and forced cooperation is karma. That is the... It looks the same thing. Karmīs and the bhaktas are working... Just like we are working in the same way. Karmī is typing and a bhakta is typing. It looks the same thing, but karmī is typing under force. His master has ordered, "You work it; otherwise you won't get salary." And a bhakta is typing for pleasing Kṛṣṇa and for glorifying Kṛṣṇa. So the typing looks the same, but the bhakta's typing and a karmī's typing different.



Śyāmasundara: And he says that freedom of the will is relative, that in our higher level it becomes clear that the lower stage was actually determined, predetermined or directed by external forces.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called karma*-phala. That we have explained. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. Unless superior superintendence he is working, and as a result of his work, he is getting a particular type of body for enjoyment or suffering.



Śyāmasundara: Even though he thinks he's free. He thinks he's free.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā.



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*He is being forced by the laws of nature, but he is thinking, "I am doing this." That is ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā. He's a rascal.



Śyāmasundara: This man, Alexander, says that in the higher levels of evolution one can see that everything is determined in the lower levels.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore... Everything is determined; therefore we should not try for improving our economic condition because already it is decided. This sort of... Otherwise why you see so many varieties of standard of life? One is born rich and one born, he is working so hard, he cannot get even two morsel of bread. So everything is determined. Therefore Bhāgavata says that "For this material happiness, you don't try. That will come automatically as distress comes automatically." You don't try for distress, but it comes upon you. Similarly, whatever happiness is due to you, it will also come to you. You try for developing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is your business. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. That is intelligence.



Śyāmasundara: He says that values are relative between a particular man and a particular object that one man's food is another man's poison.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we have taken, Kṛṣṇa consciousness has value and material consciousness no value. So value also different according to the different persons.



Śyāmasundara: And he says the basis for determining or judging which values are best is by the principle of coherence, that is, by agreement among the most people willing to accept it.



Prabhupāda: That means authority. What is value. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You become Kṛṣṇa bhakta," because He is authority. The Veda says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Veda says that "Search out Kṛṣṇa." So the authority, what the authority says, that is valuable.



Śyāmasundara: But he says not the authority. He says by the most willing people...



Prabhupāda: That we see... He's going... He's going... Veda is accept by everyone. All learned scholar. Who can decry *Vedas*? Only the rascals will decry *Vedas*. Otherwise... Just like in our country, India, all the big ācāryas, they accept *Vedas* as the basic principle. So who can decry? Veda says that the stool of cow is pure, and it is accepted. Everyone. All Hindus, brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, and the ācāryas, they accept that cow dung is pure. Why? Veda says. In another place, Veda says that "Stool of any animal is impure," but this stool is pure. So we haven't got discrimination. We accept that. Other animal stool is impure. But the cow dung, the stool of cow, we immediately accept as pure, and we apply it in our Deity room and make is purified. That is Veda. You cannot contradict . You cannot argue *Vedas*. That is also...



Śyāmasundara: But his idea is that the majority will accept something.



Prabhupāda: Well, in India majority accepts Veda. Now they have become rascals, that is a different thing.



Śyāmasundara: Now they accept wine...



*Prabhupāda: That is a different thing. But in India all the authorities, all personalities, unless you accept Vedas, you are called nāstika. Therefore Buddha philosophy was driven away, Caitanya Mahāprabhu veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Simply Lord Buddha says, "I don't care for your Vedas." Lord Buddha wanted to preach nonviolence, but in the Vedic literature there is violence. There is violence. Just like Gandhi wanted to prove from Bhagavad*-gītā nonviolence. Where is nonviolence there? Where is that nonviolence? Kṛṣṇa is inducing Arjuna to fight, to become violent. So how can you prove there is nonviolence? These are all nonsense. So similarly, in the Vedas there is recommendation that animals can be sacrificed in the Vedas with mantra. That... Therefore the process, to test the power of the mantra, that animal is put into the fire and the animal again comes out with a new life. That is the test. Just like you test how the microphone is working. So how the Vedic mantras are being chanted rightly, that is tested by putting... Just like in laboratory a small animal is killed. But that is killed. They cannot give life. But here, in sacrifice, aśvamedha-yajña, gomedha-yajña, there is... Gavalambham, aśvamedhaṁ gavālambham [Cc. Ādi 17.164]. The animal sacrificed, but it comes again with ill life. That is the test, how the Vedic mantra is chanted. So because there is no such qualified brāhmaṇa, therefore in this age all kinds of sacrifices stopped. So Veda is no authority. The mantra has no life. So that is accepted by everyone. At least, civilized class of men. Actually, unless there is this varṇāśrama-dharma, the classification of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, that is not civilized form of life. So according to Vedic conception, the modern civilization, European, American, that not civilized form of... And actually it is happening. The result is producing. And because India accepted the Vedic culture, in spite of two thousand years onslaught by foreigners, they are standing still. Many of them fallen, but the basic principle is still standing. Just like we are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the basis of Vedic principle. I have not manufactured anything. And it is becoming successful. So the Vedas is so nice. Even foreigners are accepting the principle.



Śyāmasundara: So if the majority of the whole world accepted Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he would call that of value.



Prabhupāda: No, the majority may not accept. You see, if you want to sell jewels, a diamond, you cannot get many customers. That is not possible. But still, diamond is diamond. It may not have many customers. It doesn't matter. If there is one customer, that is sufficient. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca taraḥ sahasrasaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky that is sufficient to dissipate all darkness. There is no need of thousands or millions of stars. So our movement, if anyone, through all men in the world, can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will do tremendous good to the people. My Guru Mahārāja used to say like that.



Śyāmasundara: So he searched around for those values that are most accepted by the most people and he found they are truth, beauty, and goodness are the three main values. Truth, beauty, and goodness.



Prabhupāda: Well, it is a false proposition. In the material world nobody likes truth. They always want to place untruth, at least in this age. The majority of people are not truthful. As soon as one becomes truthful, he's a brāhmaṇa. (end)





Prabhupāda: So? What is the...?



Johann Gottlieb Fichte



Śyāmasundara: We're discussing this German philosopher, Fichte. Last... We had discussed the whole philosophy then we lost the last half of the tape so I'll just start where we left off. Just to review slightly...



Prabhupāda: Then why don't you, whatever you have got, you get it transcribed and send it to Hayagrīva Prabhu.



Śyāmasundara: Well, I'm pretty much going to have to edit this because...



Prabhupāda: Then we'll edit. All right.



*Śyāmasundara: Fichte's idea is that the world is a rational unified system which is directed toward a purpose and that the self*-consciousness...



Prabhupāda: It is opposite to that philosophy. He said there is no purpose.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: He said there is a purpose.



Śyāmasundara: This man is coming about 1800, 1820. Sartre's contemporary. In those times...



Prabhupāda: Before him.



*Śyāmasundara: Much before him, about 150 years ago. He takes as the absolute first principle the self*-consciousness or the evil(?), "I am", the awareness that I exist as an absolute a priori first principle.



Prabhupāda: That is Vedānta. We are studying what I am. That is Vedānta philosophy, to study what I am. And the answer is given by us, Vaiṣṇava philosophers, that you are eternal servant of God. This is Vedānta. Everyone is searching what I am, we are giving the answer: "You are eternal servant of God." Now let them refute this that he's not servant, he's absolute(?). Our answer is there. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about Brahman, the spirit soul. What is this spirit soul, what I am. What is the supreme. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's answer is already there, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. The real identity of the living entity is that he's eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy or the search for truth begins with the self*-conscious demand that one should think thyself, think myself.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That is discussed in Bhagavad-gītā that you should meditate actually what I am. You go on analyzing your body, "Am I these hands? No, it is mine. Am I this head? No, it is my head." So naturally, you come to the point, "Then where I am? I am saying everything mine. Ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. What is that I?" That is replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct) kaunteya, kṣetra (indistinct). This body, I am not body, you study, it is the field which is given to me for acting. Just like if you are given one jurisdiction, some field, so act there, work there. Similarly, this body is given to us by nature as field of working. Therefore, this yogic meditation, this is consciousness, and I am not this body. That is the beginning of knowledge. Before that (indistinct) thinking that he's this body, he is no better than animal. Big animal. Here is the knowledge. When one understands that he is not this body, something beyond this body-"I am not this body, this is my body"*-that is knowledge.



*Śyāmasundara: This Fichte actually comes to that conclusion because he borrows from Kant and develops this idea of the dialectic that there's thesis, the antithesis and it becomes combined in synthesis. He puts forward the idea that the ego, the subjective identity that the thesis has given and opposing that is the antithesis or material nature. Just like my body is the antithesis of my ego, so it is non*-ego. So he says ego, non-ego, there's a continuous struggle.



Prabhupāda: When I think that I am this body, that is false ego. That is false ego. Because I am not this body. So those who are falsely identifying this body, (indistinct) they're animals. They're (indistinct).



*Śyāmasundara: So he sees that the world is made up of a combination of continuous struggle of dialectic between the opposing elements of ego and non*-ego. My subjective identity and the objective world are continually locked in struggle, endlessly, and this is the way things are going on.



Prabhupāda: Not endlessly, but if you understand that you are not this body, then this ignorance is ended, immediately. So you cannot say it is endless.



*Śyāmasundara: He says that there is a gradual evolution towards self*-realization if one uses his reason.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is gradual process of evolution is from animal kingdom to human life. When one comes to the human form of life then the realization (indistinct) is there.



Śyāmasundara: So he seeks to combine these two types of reason, Kant set up. There's pure reason and practical reason or moral reason. In other words speculative reason and practical reason or moral reason.



Prabhupāda: Practical, practical reason is that if I think I am this body, then where is the difference between dead body and living? Living body means I am in this body, that is living body. As soon as I give up this body, I go and accept another body. Then it is dead body. So this is practical reason, that without the soul this body is a lump of matter. It is very practical. Therefore soul is different from this matter.



Śyāmasundara: He says that our progress towards this kind of understanding comes about because we unify our speculative reason, our theoretical reason with our practical reason or our moral reason.



Prabhupāda: This is practical. Anyone can understand that when the body is, does not contain any more the soul, then it is dead, dead body, lump of matter. So spirit soul is different from the matter. This is practical. If anyone cannot understand, then he's less intelligent. This is practical.



Śyāmasundara: His idea of ultimate reality is that it is the moral ego or pure will that...



Prabhupāda: Then he has to define what is morality.



Śyāmasundara: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Everyone says, "It is my morality." Everyone can manufacture (indistinct). Just like, for example in India if somebody talks of homosex (indistinct) immoral, and here it is going on. (indistinct). So what is morality? (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: He uses the categorical imperative that Kant set up, the different categories of goodness and badness.



Prabhupāda: That means if you are in the modes of goodness, your morality is different from the morality of the man who is in the modes of ignorance.



Śyāmasundara: But he says that everything should be understood in terms of what it ought to be, that there is an absolute good.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: And every activity should be understood in terms of that absolute good.



Prabhupāda: That, that we say liberation. One should be free from the material contamination. That is our... Because under material condition, he is in three modes, goodness, passion and ignorance. So one who is in goodness he does not approve conclusion in ignorance. And one who is in ignorance, he thinks it is better.



Śyāmasundara: So if one is looking on the objects of the world in terms of what they ought to be...



Prabhupāda: Ought to be, how you'll know it? Unless he gets information from the higher authority what is ought to be? You cannot manufacture. If you are in the modes of ignorance, your "ought to be", just like they're saying the animals have no soul and we are saying, "No, you cannot kill animals." So we are in different position. So what is "ought to be", who will dictate? If you dictate yourself, your concept of killing, it "ought to be". And my concept of not killing, is "ought to be". So what is the standard?



Then you have to go to the authority, go for judgement.



Śyāmasundara: These German philosophers, they generally accept the Christian standard of morality to be what ought to be.



Prabhupāda: That's also good, but Christian morality, who is abiding by Christian morality? The Christian morality, in the beginning it is said "Thou shalt not kill," and they're all killing. So it will be very difficult to find out a real Christian who is following the morality. "Thou shalt not covet," and they're doing all this nonsense.



Śyāmasundara: Any rate, he's more or less investigating just what is the nature of man without going into the goals.



Prabhupāda: That we have got. Nature of man, nature of living entity is that he's eternal servant. He is serving. Everyone is serving. Who is a living entity where in this world he can say that "I am not serving, I am absolute, I am nobody's servant"? Everyone is serving. Either he's serving māyā or Kṛṣṇa, that's all. When he is in knowledge, he is serving Kṛṣṇa and when he's foolish, ignorant, he's serving māyā. That's all. But he must serve. Just like a citizen, he must abide by the order of the state. If he abides by the order of the state in an ordinary way, then he's a good citizen. And if he (indistinct), then he will have to be forced to abide by the order of the state (indistinct). But in all cases he must abide by the order (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: He also sees things in that way. He sees the unfolding of reality as the fulfillment of duty, that one must always strive for what ought to be, what is fulfillment of his duty.



*That, that information we are giving that in reality everyone is servant, but he is under misconception, he's thinking he's master and he's forced to serve māyā. This is reality. Just like a outlaw, he is thinking that free from the state law but he's forced to abide by the state law in the kingdom. Similarly my position is I must carry the order. I am inferior. I must carry out the order of the superior. The superior, the supreme superior is Kṛṣṇa. If I voluntarily become the servant and carry out His order, then it is my normal life. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Otherwise it is abnormal life. I have to serve māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā will kick upon my face and force me to do something, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]. So I will be servant of prakṛti, material nature. That means I will be servant of my senses. By nature, my senses dictate, "Now you do this," I will be forced to do it. This is my position.



Śyāmasundara: When you spoke earlier about what the definite idea of what is good, to strive for, if you were to say that "Thou shall not kill" is good, then what if Kṛṣṇa says "Kill"? Then that doesn't have any meaning, "Thou shall not kill."



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Thou shall not kill." Where Kṛṣṇa has said, "Thou shall not kill."



Śyāmasundara: Well, he tells Arjuna...



Prabhupāda: Arjuna. Other words(?) is not for you. Why do you say Kṛṣṇa says to kill?



Śyāmasundara: No, I'm saying that...



*Prabhupāda: That is our*-Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can order anything He likes, but you have to carry out Kṛṣṇa's order. If Kṛṣṇa says you to kill, then you can kill. You cannot say that "Kṛṣṇa has said to Arjuna to kill, therefore I shall kill."



Śyāmasundara: So what I mean is instead of saying that this is good and that is bad, all you can say really is what is good is what Kṛṣṇa says.



Prabhupāda: That's it.



Śyāmasundara: Kṛṣṇa's order is what is good.



Prabhupāda: That is actually doing. Actually in our experience also, just like a soldier, he kills by the order, superior order of the state. He is given gold medal. And if the same man, when he comes home, if he kills, he is hanged. Why? Because you can kill under superior order, not whimsically. Generally the order is not to kill, but if he says now kill, you can... that is order, that you have to take. And if you say at that time, "Sir, you told me not to kill," that is (indistinct). General order and specific order. So Kṛṣṇa says, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam [Bg. 13.8]. He is giving the process of knowledge, amānitvam adambhitvam, not to be proud, ahiṁsā, nonviolence. These are there, eighteen qualities for understanding spiritual values. So it is general. Now for particular purposes if Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, you must kill," you must abide by that order. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Śyāmasundara: So the standard of what ought to be is that one should fulfill one's duty to Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: That is good, that is moral, real morality.



Śyāmasundara: So Kṛṣṇa uses the same terminology that one should fulfill his duty and if this is the what ought to be.



Prabhupāda: Duty means superior order. That is duty. You cannot manufacture your duty.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is a little impersonal because he says that we discern what ought to be from the forces of nature around you, reality unfolding.



Prabhupāda: Then he abides by the forces of nature. That is nature is superior. He does not know beyond nature there is another superior being, that is God. That is his lack of knowledge. That is the difficulty. If you are not perfect, where is that philosopher?



Śyāmasundara: He sees an intelligence acting in nature.



*Prabhupāda: Anyway he accepts the superiority of nature, superior position of nature. He accepts it. So but beyond the nature there is a... the Supreme Personality Godhead. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Under My direction nature works. So he has no vision to see the background of nature.



Śyāmasundara: They term nature as the unfolding of events, as a thing in itself. They don't understand that beyond that is the controller.



Prabhupāda: That is lack of knowledge, poor fund of knowledge. So these persons with poor fund of knowledge, they should not take the position of a philosopher. This is misguided, misleading. That is going on. Mental concoction, speculating, without any authority.



Śyāmasundara: This idea of Fichte means duty...



Prabhupāda: And what is the duty? Unless there is superior order, you ask me to do something, then where is your duty?



Śyāmasundara: Well, to do our duty is to do what ought to be.



Prabhupāda: Who has prescribed that this is ought to be?



Śyāmasundara: Well, the world order prescribes what ought to be.



Prabhupāda: World order, what is that world order? Is it blind?



Śyāmasundara: Harmony, whatever causes harmony...



*Prabhupāda: What is harmony, who will define? You say this is harmony, I say this is harmony. Therefore our philosophy is perfect. We are taking our duty from the Supreme. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], that is authority, only to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and abide by His order.



Śyāmasundara: Actually his philosophy has that loophole, that there's no



Prabhupāda: Every philosophy will be loophole. Everybody, that we shall find out, others cannot find out, what is that loophole.



Śyāmasundara: Because of this, the German state was able to step in and say, "Your duty is to follow us."



Prabhupāda: Who are you? The question is, "Who are you?"



Śyāmasundara: I am Hitler. I control the...



Prabhupāda: That is "Might is right." But Hitler was finished now. That anyone can say, the tiger can also say. "Might is right. I am powerful, you must (indistinct)."



Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy must begin with the assumption that being is nothing but that duty is absolutely everything.



Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Without being how you can do your duty?



Śyāmasundara: That being, being doesn't strive for what is, being is always striving for what ought to be. He always has a sense of duty. There should be something other than this that I must...



Prabhupāda: That Supreme Being, He can be (indistinct) up to. You, you cannot do such. You commit mistake. Therefore you do not know what is ought to be or not to be.



Śyāmasundara: Just like this propensity is there in men not simply to be satisfied with what is but always to strive for something improving, what ought to be.



Prabhupāda: So we, we give that ultimate ought to be that you will become surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa. That is ultimate ought to be.



Śyāmasundara: And he says that everything should be seen in relation to that what ought to be (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our philosophy. If it is approved and Rūpa Gosvāmī says, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ [Cc. Madhya 19.167], our ought to be is what is Kṛṣṇa approves or His representative approves. That is ought to be. Our standard. Otherwise it is not, not ought to be. Therefore we accept our guidance (indistint). Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Therefore Vedas say that one must approach a bona fide spiritual master, in order to be fully in knowledge. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. These are Vedic injunctions. One who has accepted a bona fide spiritual master, he knows everything. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Veda means in knowledge. So ācāryavān, one who has accepted ācārya. Therefore our principle is to follow the ācārya. In Bhagavad*-gītā also it is said, ācārya upāsanam, one must worship ācārya, to go to the right knowledge. So that is our philosophy.



Śyāmasundara: In his epistemology or his study of knowledge he said that events are not made necessary by causes, but that everything is motivated by its own purpose. In other words if I drop this...



Prabhupāda: That means there is no chance.



Śyāmasundara: No chance.



Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no question of chance.



Śyāmasundara: If I drop this and there is a reaction, a noise, it is not because this caused the noise but that each thing is motivated by its own purpose.



Prabhupāda: But there is already the law, if he falls down there will be noise(?). The thing is already there, but it becomes manifested under certain circumstances, that's all.



Śyāmasundara: But his idea is that dropping of this does not cause it to be necessary that there is noise, but that because the world purpose is unfolding...



*Prabhupāda: Where is that... Causeless means... There are two kinds of causes, efficient(?) cause and (indistinct) So it may be (indistinct) cause where there are many remote causes. But ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].



Śyāmasundara: That's his idea. He's looking at the ultimate cause, there is a motivation for everything. It's not accidental, that nothing is, no event is...



Prabhupāda: That we say, there is no such thing as accident.



Śyāmasundara: In other words if I perform some act with the expectation that something will result, it's not necessary that that act, that will result. There's no necessity for that.



Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy, that let Kṛṣṇa sanction. There cannot be (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: There's no necessity...



Prabhupāda: I may try to do something with my expert knowledge but still if it is not sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa, it will not (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: There's no necessity by cause.



Prabhupāda: Ultimate cause is He, daivī. That is (indistinct) in the Bhagavad..., five causes. So out of five causes, the daivī is providence. Providential cause is primary.



Śyāmasundara: More than the others.



Prabhupāda: Others is place, the worker, the means.



Devotee: (indistinct)



*Śyāmasundara: In Bhagavad*-gītā.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You may be very expert but the ultimate will be daivī cause is not in favor, it will not (indistinct). Here example is just like you (indistinct) your service, suffering, sick, and you are employing first*-class doctor, first-class medical, first-class attendant there is no guarantee that you (indistinct). Then where is the cause? What is the cause? From the scientific world you can say that my (indistinct) I have appointed first-class physician, first-class medicine, first-class, everything, but my son died. Then where is the power?



Śyāmasundara: Whatever caused this person's death is the ultimate cause.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore the ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa does not sanction your so*-called first-class medicine, physician, place, and everything will be spoiled. And if he sanctions, even you don't appoint any physician, he will (indistinct). Rakhe kṛṣṇa mareke mare kṛṣṇa rakheke. If Kṛṣṇa kills nobody can save him, and if Kṛṣṇa saves, nobody can kill. Just like Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. They made plans that they'll never die, but Kṛṣṇa killed them. No condition will be (indistinct). That is our philosophy.



*Śyāmasundara: That's it. He says here, of all things the ego is uncaused, the spontaneous self*-consciousness...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am living force, the ego must be there. I am. And that I am may be misplaced: "I am this body or this mind." Real I am, I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is real I am.



Śyāmasundara: So the I am is not caused by anything.



Prabhupāda: No, I am is eternal, Kṛṣṇa is eternal, and I (am) also eternal.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that the noncaused ego posits the nonego, or it gives them meaning, existence. It gives...



Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy, nonego means although I have got my identification, I am, still I have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa says "You do this," I don't say, "I will not do." I don't impose my will. I sacrifice my individuality. Kṛṣṇa says, I must do. Therefore my ego is not there.



*Śyāmasundara: He uses the same example of Barthe(?) that essais persice(?) means that this exists because I perceive it, that all these non*-ego objects are...



Prabhupāda: No, that we don't agree. It exists independent from our perception.



Śyāmasundara: But it must be perceived by someone to exist.



Prabhupāda: That is different (indictinct) the one who has manufactured it (indistinct). So similarly, God is in (indistinct) of everything, I may not. That is described in the Bhāgavata, anvayād itarataś ca, anvayād (indistinct) sa abhijñaḥ. He is not (indistinct). Nothing can be concealed from the vision of God.



Śyāmasundara: So to be is to be perceived but because God perceives it, it exists.



Prabhupāda: Without God nothing can exist.



Śyāmasundara: So he says that we come into this world and these objects are here...



Prabhupāda: Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. (indistinct). He is the originator of everything, anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu, indirectly, directly, whatever there are, He knows everything. I do not know who has manufactured this, I see only but I do not know (indistinct).



*Śyāmasundara: He says we come into this world and we posit or we bring into existence the material objects, non*-ego objects but the duty of the practical reason to guide these objects properly, to utilize them according to the practical will.



Prabhupāda: Then you require the shelter of *Vedas*. He will give you direction how to live. You have come in this material world for fulfilling your material desires therefore the *Vedas* give you direction that you try to fulfill your desires in this way, so that one day you may come to your original.



Śyāmasundara: He says that all of nature as we see it is only illusory sense material reflecting the ongoing moral necessity of reality of the universe.



Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy. Mirage, sometimes mirage, if you see in front of the water in the desert. Actually there is no water in the desert, but you see under illusion. But you know, you are human being, you know that there is no water, you don't go after it. But the animal will go after it and he'll lose his life because (indistinct). He wants to take that water, and the water also goes ahead. In this way when he's too thirsty in the midst of desert he becomes dead. So that is the difference between man and animal. So the human consciousness, when it is developed, you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you become detached with this material mirage. He does not run after the false water. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Others may go after the false water. That is called māyā, or illusion.



Śyāmasundara: His idea is that by observing the material energy that we can get an idea of what is the real duty of the universe. You can perceive it in the ongoing fluctuations of material nature, the duty or reality of the universe.



Prabhupāda: That is not possible. If he is ignorant, how he can understand? There must be direction, guidance.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the pure speculative reasoning...



Prabhupāda: No, that is (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: But this pure speculative reason must be unified with practical reason also.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But practical means he will require guidance. (laughter)



Śyāmasundara: He says the institutions such as laws can participate in this unfolding of the reason of the universe, duty of the universe for instance by controlling conflicts between personalities and so on. Law, the laws of the state, the laws of (indistinct) can participate in the unfolding of the universe, the purpose of the universe.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We accept that personality may be (indistinct), not that we pick up any man from the street and we accept guru. That will not (indistinct). Śrotriyaṁ brahma*-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12], one who has heard properly from his spiritual master and as a result of such hearing he is perfectly in God consciousness (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: How does this fit in with what I was just saying about institutions such as laws, things like that. They can participate in the purpose of the universe, in bringing out the purpose of the universe. I make a law that you shall not kill, does that participate...



Prabhupāda: No, you cannot make law. Law can be made by God. You have to abide by the law. You cannot (indistinct), you are imperfect, how you can make law? Your law will be imperfect.



Śyāmasundara: The state cannot make laws to (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: State is (indistinct) because we have no other experience beyond the state. But the state also, according to Vedic civilization, state means he must be king. King must be representative of God. So king is therefore called naradeva. That we have discussed in the matter of Pṛthu Mahārāja. So king is supposed to be representative of God and he has to execute his royal authority by direction of God. The brāhmaṇas and the sages, they give him direction. These things are being very thoroughly discussed when Pṛthu Mahārāja in the Fourth Canto. That is civilization.



Śyāmasundara: He appreciates that. He says that the institutions of civilization can help bring out the purpose of the universe.



Prabhupāda: Purpose of the universe is already there, but you have to know it through proper channels. But if you speculate then you will be misled. That's all. They want to speculate, that is their defect.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the world, he calls it the stuff of duty, the world is made up of the stuff of duty.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Stuff of duty, because duty means you are abiding by the superior order, that is duty. So we accept *Vedas*, the superior order. When it is stated, order in the *Vedas*, then we accept. That example we have given several times, if the Veda says that cow dung is pure. Once it is said that any stool of animal is impure. Then Veda says, "No, cowdung is pure." So you cannot argue that once you said that stool of animal is impure, how you say that cowdung is pure? You cannot contradict. You will have to accept it because it is order of the *Vedas*. (indistinct)



Śyāmasundara: He sees that everything in the world, all nonego objects, all the objects of the world are seeking to realize themselves. Everything is seeking to realize itself.



Prabhupāda: Yes, seeking, therefore if you take advantage of a perfect person, then that seeking will be (indistinct) very soon understand. Otherwise he'll hover in the oblivion. That's all. Our process is we are seeking but we are going to the Absolute Person, Kṛṣṇa, and you are taking the knowledge, immediately. That saves our time. If you are seeking, considering your (indistinct) very great scholar, research scholar, then you are misled. Our process is very nice. Therefore tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12], the injunction is you must approach a bona fide spiritual master to make a short cut of the searching.



Śyāmasundara: Because everything is seeking to realize itself, that that means there is a moral order to...



Prabhupāda: Certainly.



Śyāmasundara: So that each individual must act according to his duty and his conscience in this world.



Prabhupāda: No. Conscience, an entity is Kṛṣṇa conscience, it is useless.



Śyāmasundara: Conscience.



Prabhupāda: Conscience, yes. A thief, he also prepares his conscience. When he goes to steal he says, "I must, because I have to maintain my family. I do not know any other business, I must." This is his conscience. The other conscious is, "No, no, no I cannot steal. It is sin." So where is the conscience? Conscience is not standard. You make your, manufacture your own conscience. Therefore you have to take advice from Kṛṣṇa conscience. That is real conscience. Whether it is (indistinct) with Kṛṣṇa conscience, that is (indistinct). Otherwise he created own conscience.



Śyāmasundara: It is that the supreme principle of world order is freedom.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, freedom. Our present condition is not freedom. We are completely under the laws, te 'pi svatantra rudhāṇī vardhya (?). They are tied up by the ropes of material nature, hands and legs, and still they are thinking, "I am free." That is illusion. Nobody is free. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. We are seeking freedom but nobody is free. Nobody is free. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27], they are pulled by the ear, "Do this." Prakṛteḥ. You have to do this.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the free will, which creates itself or realizes itself is the truest of all realities.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So if by free will if you choose to surrender to Kṛṣṇa they you'll get your real free will, freedom. Otherwise you are under the clutches of māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa*-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot surpass the stringent laws of material nature, that is not...



Śyāmasundara: He says, contrary to Kant, he says that the practical reason is primary, is the first thing, that what is practical is superior to what is...



Prabhupāda: Practical, this means, suppose I want to do something, I do not know, then I go and ask a superior person who knows it. Just like when you drive your car, you are going somewhere, so you take the direction from the signpost, this way go, this point here, this village. Similarly, for practical purpose you have to approach a person who knows. That is practical. And if you think that I shall do it myself, without consulting anyone, that is not practical, that is theoretical. You will be misled. At least we are prone to be misled.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the reason is subordinate to the will.



Prabhupāda: Yes, thinking, feeling, willing, so willing, I want to do something, I apply my reason, that is intelligence. If we do it intelligently then it is good, and if I do it foolishly then it is bad. Will is there.



Śyāmasundara: Will is (indistinct) will is primary reason.



Prabhupāda: No. After reasoning, then you will. After reasoning.



Śyāmasundara: First reasoning, then willing. He says the opposite. He says that reason is subordinate to will.



Prabhupāda: That can be also.



Śyāmasundara: He sees the will as practical, practical reason...



Prabhupāda: This thinking, feeling, willing, they are all taken together as reasoning. What do you think? What is the psychology? Hayagrīva(?) Prabhu? What is there? Thinking, feeling, willing, do you think that you shall be a rich man, you think. Then you make your process how you will become a rich man, then work will (indistinct). Or you will, thinking, feeling, willing, "Yes, I must be rich man," then how you can in this way, that way. But intelligence is above thinking, feeling, willing. Everyone, a dog also thinks he'll feel, he has no intelligence. He has intelligence (indistinct).



Śyāmasundara: He says that all reasoning comes about as a result of our desires or our will, whatever we are willing, then we begin to reason.



Prabhupāda: That is not willing, that is thinking. That is not willing.



Śyāmasundara: Rationalizing.



Prabhupāda: Yes, thinking. I am thinking to become like this. If we generally say like that, "I am thinking." Is it not?



Śyāmasundara: I am thinking to go somewhere.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, I am thinking. So if there is any difference between thinking, feeling and willing then thinking first.



Śyāmasundara: Will, willing something is more like desiring something, isn't it?



Prabhupāda: That desiring begins from thinking.



*Śyāmasundara: Contemplating the objects of the senses one (indistinct). He says that if one combines rational thought with his will then this will help him towards self*-realization.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Śyāmasundara: If he combines rational thought with willing...



Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the rational thought comes?



Śyāmasundara: That is an a priori fact, that I think therefore I am.



Devotee: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Śyāmasundara: But we cannot..., pure thought process, I cannot do anything more than think myself. I can think that I think therefore I am.



Prabhupāda: You can think, but if you are helped by somebody else who knows the way, then it becomes easier. You are thinking of driving a car. If somebody expert... (break) ...that is practical. Yes.



Śyāmasundara: He says that it is very difficult because the nonego objects are always trying to lead us astray.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to take advantage of an experienced man who knows things. He does not accept any superior.



Śyāmasundara: He says that the moral goal, the moral reality of (indistinct) is the ultimate in superiority...



Prabhupāda: That morality we have already discussed, what is the morality. You can create your own morality, I can create my own morality. What is actual morality?



Śyāmasundara: Maybe that's a good place to end. (end)





Discussions with Hayagrīva dāsa





SOCRATES.HAY



Socrates



Hayagrīva: ...that Śyāmasundara treated, but they're somewhat incomplete, so I will read. I've gone to the primary sources. He used a college outline series that wasn't really adequate. So I went to the primary sources, and I'll read a little, and if you want to comment on it, comment. If you don't feel like commenting on it, I'll just go on to the next section.



*Once a student of Socrates*-this is a section on Socrates-said, "I cannot refute you, Socrates." To this Socrates replied, "Say rather that you cannot refute the truth, for Socrates is easily refuted." This is by way of saying that the Absolute Truth is not a subject of mental speculation or personal opinion. The Truth, or the good, for Socrates stands separate from mundane relativities or personal opinion.

*Prabhupāda: That is our opinion. We accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, and therefore we cannot refute what Kṛṣṇa says. And our philosophy is perfect because we follow Kṛṣṇa. He is the Supreme Perfect. This is our position. In other religious system, taking it our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement religious... It is religious, because our religion means the..., to carry out the order of God. That is the sum and substance of religion. We don't manufacture religion, and neither religion can be manufactured. Manufactured religion is useless. That has been described in the Bhagavad*-gītā, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as dharma kaitava. Means cheating. So this is not cheating religion. Our basic principle is dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the order which is given by God, and if you execute that, that is dharma. Just like law. Law is given by the government. You cannot manufacture law. That is not law. So our perfection is there, how we are executing the order of God cent percent. One who has no conception of God, neither the order of God, they can manufacture religious system. But our system is different.



Hayagrīva: (aside:) This is picking up fine, the reading? Socrates considers the contemplation of beauty to be an activity of the wise man, but relative beauty in the mundane world is simply a reflection of absolute beauty. In the same way, good in the relative world is simply a reflection of the absolute good. In either case, absolute good or beauty is transcendental.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our opinion. Beauty, knowledge, strength and opulence-everything*-they are transcendental. Here, in this material world, it is perverted reflection. Just like the example is the mirage. A fool, animal, is thinking there is water in the desert, and he is running after it, and after sometimes he dies of thirst because there is not. But a sane man knows there is no water; *it is simply a reflection by the sunshine, and this foolish animal is running after it. So he does not..., a sane man does not go for this false water. But another thing is that because there is no water in the desert, it does not mean there is no water. Water is there, but not there. Similarly happiness, beauty, opulence*-everything is there. That is in the spiritual world. Here it is only a perverted reflection. So generally people have no information of the spiritual world; *therefore they imagine something God, something spiritual world. They do not take that "This is imagination, this material world." When Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9], they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but this simple thing they can not understand, that a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, after giving up this body-the body has to be given up-then what happens? Kṛṣṇa says mam eti, "He come to Me." And other system says that after death he goes to hell or goes to heaven. So that is to some extent fact. This human life, if he understands Kṛṣṇa, he goes to the eternal abode*-you can take it as heaven or something. Otherwise he remains in this material world to undergo the same cycle of birth and death. That is hell. It can be taken in that way.



Hayagrīva: According to Socrates, the pursuit of man is the seeking of this absolute good. Basically Socrates is an impersonalist because he does not ultimately define this absolute good as a person, nor does he give the absolute good a personal name. He just calls it "the good."



*Prabhupāda: That is preliminary stage of understanding the Absolute. Because the..., the beginning, Brahman realization, impersonal, and then further advanced Paramātmā realization, localized, God is everywhere. And God is everywhere, that's a fact. That is God. But He has got His place, abode. That is God, that goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhuto [Bs. 5.37], that God is Person, He has His own abode, He has his own associates and everything. Difference is that although He is in His abode, He is present everywhere, even within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. So Socrates or any other philosopher, they cannot understand the potency of God, how He can remain in His own place, simultaneously in every atom. That is the conception of God. So everywhere He is staying. Everything is His expansion, His energy, the bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. The material world is bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ-land, water, earth, air. So these are different expansion of God's energy. So He can be present everywhere because His energy is expanded everywhere. So energy and the energetic, they are not different, but at the same time energy is not the energetic. This simultaneously one and different, acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, this is perfect philosophy.



Hayagrīva: For Socrates, he taught a kind of a process of liberation. For him, liberation meant freedom from passion.



Prabhupāda: Freedom from?



Hayagrīva: Passion, passion.



Prabhupāda: Passion, yes.



*Hayagrīva: And his motto was, "Know thyself." And by knowing oneself through meditation or insight one can gain self*-control, and by being self-controlled one can attain happiness.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. Meditation means to analyze oneself-that is real meditation*-and find out the Absolute Truth. That is the description in the Vedic literature. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino. Yogi means by his meditation he is seeing the Supreme Truth, Kṛṣṇa, or God, within himself. Kṛṣṇa is there, and so a yogi consults Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa advises him. That is the relationship with yogi. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. One who is purified, he is seeing Kṛṣṇa always within himself. That is confirmed in the Brahmā-samhita, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. A saintly person, advanced, he is seeing Kṛṣṇa, yaṁ śyāmasundaram. The very word used, Kṛṣṇa is śyāmasundaram, very beautiful blackish, the Personality of Godhead, Śyāmasundaram. Śyāma means blackish, but extraordinarily beautiful. That is called śyāma. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam [Bs. 5.38]. Acintaya, unlimited qualities. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham... He is govindam. So it can be realized that He is situated everywhere, at the same time in His person He is always engaged in Vṛndāvana dancing with the gopīs and playing with His friends and talking with His mother, and sometimes as naughty boy He is teasing mother's household affairs. So this is Kṛṣṇa.



Hayagrīva: It's been said that Socrates's philosophy is primarily a philosophy of ethics, and that...



Prabhupāda: Atheist?



Hayagrīva: Ethics, ethics...



Prabhupāda: Ethics.



Hayagrīva: The way, the way to...



Prabhupāda: Ethics, yes.



Hayagrīva: The way of action in the world. And the jñāna, or knowledge, in itself is not sufficient, but it must be applied and must serve as a basis for action in the world.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, ethics is the basic principle of purification. Unless one does..., knows what is moral and what is immoral... Of course, in this material world everything is immoral, but still we have to distinguish good and bad. That is called regulative principle. Simply by following the regulative principle, if he does not reach the ultimate goal of spiritual life, so that is also not wanted. The real aim is to come to the spiritual platform and become free from the influence of these laws of material nature. So passion is the binding force in the material nature. Just like in the prison house the prisoners are kept sometimes chained by some iron shackles and other method, so material nature has given the chain, shackles, of sex life, passion, rajas tamaḥ. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo*-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Rajah-guṇah means the modes of passion. So modes of passion means kama, lusty desires, and krodha. When the lusty desires are not fulfilled, one becomes angry. But these things are the means of bondage in this material world. In another place it is said, tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. When one is afflicted with the base material modes of nature, namely rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, then he becomes greedy and lusty. So ethics require to get out of the clutches of greediness and lusty desires. Then he comes to the platform of goodness, which will help him to go to the platform of spiritual life.



Hayagrīva: But is meditation in itself..., would that be sufficient to transcend these lower...?



Prabhupāda: Yes, meditation, if he seeks after the Supersoul within himself...



Hayagrīva: Oh.



Prabhupāda: ...that meditation is perfect. And if he is manufacturing something or bluffing others and bluffing himself by..., in the name of meditation, transcendental, it is useless. It has no value.



Hayagrīva: Well, he feels that if one knows himself one will be a sādhu, because knowledge is identical with virtue.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: And through meditation-they call..., he called it arete (?)*-a person attains knowledge. Through knowledge a person becomes virtuous. When one is virtuous, he acts in the right way. When one acts properly, he becomes happy. Therefore the enlightened man is a man who is meditative, knowledgeable, virtuous and, because of his proper action, he is happy.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. This is the symptom of self-realized person. If one is self-realized, he is immediately happy, prasannātmā, jolly, because immediately he is on the right. Just like one is going on under some mistaken ideas, and when he comes to the real idea, he becomes very happy: "Oh, so long I was going on such a mistaken idea." So immediately the result will be happiness: "How foolish I was. I was doing like this, doing like that." So right..., as soon as one comes to the right position, he, the symptom is he is prasannātmā. What is that prasannātmā? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. Prasannātmā, happiness, means he has no more anything to hanker. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varam: "I don't want any material benediction." Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My Lord, don't tell You want me for any material benefit. I have seen so much afflict. My father was so big materialistic that even the demigods, they were afraid of him. You have finished it within a second. So I am not after these things." So this is real knowledge, that na śocati na kāṅkṣati, he has no more hankering. The karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they have got hankering. The karmīs, they are hankering after how to get material wealth, how to get material position, how to get nice woman, how to get nice position. That is karmī. Their business-simply hankering, hankering. Bancruptcy (?). And if they have lost, they cry, "Oh, I have lost it, I have lost it, I have lost." Two business. So when one becomes self-realized, these two things are conspicuous by absence: no more hankering, no more lamenting. The karmīs are hankering; the jñānīs, they are also expecting to become one with God, to merge into the existence of God. That is also hankering. The yogis, they are hankering after some magic power so they can befool others that he has become God, "I can manufacture gold, I can fly in the sky," and foolish people after them. Intelligent person will see, "What is this perfection? Even if he can fly in the sky, there are so many birds are flying. What is the difference between this flying and that flying?" So he doesn't care. So these are not perfection. But they, people, foolish people, they think it is perfection. If one can say that "I will walk over the sea," actually say it shall happen, thousands and thousands fools will come. Just as, the same thing, that there is a man advertises that he will show how he can bark like dog, people will pay ten rupees ticket and go to see how a man is barking like a dog. But he doesn't hear so many dogs are barking, creating disturbance. So this is going on. Some extraordinary power, showing, making one karmī, jñānī, yogi, but a devotee, he is so satisfied in the service of the Lord, he doesn't want anything, all this nonsense. That is perfection.



*Hayagrīva: You once mentioned that Greeks, the ancient Greeks were chased out of India where... They were kṣatriyas chased out of India by Parāśara Muni, something like that. But Socrates was confronted with a society that on one hand included what were called Sophists*-these were more or less mental speculators; *they were paid money to philosophize or to speculate*-and humanists, who said, "Man is the measure of all things." They..., no belief in God or any higher force; nothing beside man. And with the demigod worshipers, the Greek pantheon of gods were very much like the demigods described in the Vedic literatures, like Zeus was like Indra, and Athena was like Sarasvatī. They retained..., the Greeks retained their worship of the demigods, but there is no mention of a Supreme God under whom everyone else served, and Socrates, on..., neglected the worship of these demigods. He felt that there was no use in worshiping the demigods, and he stressed meditation on the self, on the highest good which resides in the heart, which must correspond to the Paramātmā.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: And so in teaching this he was teaching something radically different, and this is one of the reasons that he was condemned to death*-for blaspheming the demigods, for blaspheming the gods. He felt that the worship of these gods did not lead to self-realization at all.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā: kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ tyajante anya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. They worship other demigods, being too much lusty. Because the demigod is worshiped for some material benefit. So they have been described as hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ means one who has lost his intelligence. Actually it is so. Suppose by worshiping a demigod, Sarasvatī, the goddess of learning, so you get the opportunity of being a, becoming a very nice scholar. But how long you shall remain scholar? As soon as the body is finished, your whole scholarship is finished. Then you have to accept another body, and you have to act according to that body. So how you have..., this scholarship will help you? But if you worship God, as Kṛṣṇa says, that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ... [Bg. 4.9]. To worship God means to know God, actually what is God, more perfect-how He is managing, how material nature is working under Him. People cannot even imagine that God can be person, but here is everything person. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: [Bg. 9.10] "Under My supervision the material nature is working." So these impersonalists or less intelligent persons, they cannot understand that how a person can dictate the wonderful activities of the material nature; *therefore they remain impersonalist. But actually, person. That is the understanding of Bhagavad*-gītā. God is person. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior authority than Me." So when He says mattaḥ, that means there is a person, person. So...



Hayagrīva: Bhakta.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: Bhakta.



Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, God.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: God is person.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: And He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior authority than Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the origin of everything. Everything emanates from Me." And the Vedānta*-sūtra confirms, "The Absolute Truth is that from which everything comes," janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So the Absolute Truth is person, and Arjuna, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma. That is Absolute Truth. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. So really understanding Absolute Truth means to understand His personal feature. He has got three features: impersonal feature, localized feature and personal feature. So brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. All of them are the same truth, spiritual truth, but different phases or different features. The example is given, just like you see one mountain from a very distant place, very distant place, you see the hazy something like cloud. Then you come nearer, you see something green, there are trees, like that. And if you will come still nearer, you will see, "No. It is not only trees and hazy but there are houses, there are men, there are animals." So actually the same thing, the mountain from a distant place, but because one is far away from the mountain, he sees the same mountains are impersonal, and if he comes little nearer, then he sees Paramātmā, personal within, present everywhere. And when he comes again still, he sees the same person is still there; He is dancing and playing. This is the difference.



Hayagrīva: So through jñāna, through the path of jñāna, Socrates may have realized Brahman, he may have realized Paramātmā...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...but there was no way to realize...



Prabhupāda: No, there is way...



Hayagrīva: ...Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: ...there is way, if he makes further advancement. The same example, the same mountain is there. From a distant place you will say hazy cloud; nearer you see something green, there are trees; and still you go farther, you will see everything perfectly.



Hayagrīva: But I thought Kṛṣṇa can only be realized through bhakti, through...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...devotion.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. You can not enter in Kṛṣṇa's place without being a purified bhakta. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā. He never says that by jñāna or by karma or by yoga one can understand Him. It is clearly stated, in many śāstra, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] only through devotional service one can understand Kṛṣṇa. The personal abode of Kṛṣṇa is especially reserved for the bhaktas. Therefore all jñānīs, yogis, karmīs, they cannot; they remain outside, that there is the sunshine and the sun. To enter into the sun is not so easy thing, but sunshine anyone can remain. The temperature is not so hot; you can tolerate it. But although the sunshine and the sun not different, in the sunshine, sun globe, if you enter, if you have go the power to enter, the same light and same temperature... Not same, I mean to say, temperature and light. So the temperature of sunshine, light and temperature, is not the same as the temperature and light in the sun globe. [break]



*Hayagrīva: Now Socrates, as a teacher, in addition to believing in the value of insight or meditation, Socrates also believed that knowledge can be imparted from one person to another. He therefore believed in the role of a guru or teacher, which he himself was for many people. He believed also in good association amongst people who were interested in self-realization, and he followed the method known as the Socratic dialogue as a means for evoking the truth. Now, he would use a method called Socratic irony, in which he himself, Socrates, would pose himself as an ignorant person and would ask questions of his young disciples. He would never offer the answers, but would try to draw the answers out of his disciples, and this was called the mayudic (?) method. So he considered himself to be a kind of midwife-in fact his mother was a midwife*-who would draw the truth from the repository in the soul. He felt that the truth was there within but had to be drawn out, and that the truth is dormant within everyone, that the individual possesses the truth previous to birth in an existence previous to earthly existence.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So almost similar to our method, because we advised, we advised in this Vedic principle, that for the truth one must approach a guru. That is the version everywhere. In Bhagavad*-gītā also, same instruction is there:



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*So you have to approach a guru who knows the Absolute Truth. "Knows" means he has seen. Just like in our daily life, direct perception to see something, people argue on that, that "Can you show me God?" That is the tendency, that direct perception. So the direct perception is possible by advanced devotion. There is no difficulty because, as I have already explained, santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Constantly he is seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śyāmasundara. So there is a state when one can constantly see the Supreme Lord as Paramātmā sitting within his heart and taking advice from Him. Kṛṣṇa also confirms this: buddhi*-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. He talks. So by meditation, if it is actually meditation to search out the Absolute Truth within the heart, then he can meet. That is the yoga practice. Yoga practice means concentrating the mind to see the Supersoul within. Therefore he has to control the activities of the senses from all other engagements. Then it is possible. Yoga practice, this dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, praṇāyāma, these are why? Simply to concentrate the mind, focusing toward the Paramātmā, and then, when is perfect, he always sees. Therefore Kṛṣṇa confirms it in the Bhagavad-gītā:



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

[Bg. 6.47]



"Of all the yogis, one who has learned to see Me within himself, he is first class." Others are bogus. The perfection of yoga means to see God within himself. That is perfection of yoga. So this process, as Socrates used to give chance to his disciple, that is good process, to give him chance to develop his understanding. The teacher helps. Just like the father and mother give the child. First of all he helps, taking his hand, "Now walk, walk," and sometimes he gives him pleasure: "Now you walk. Let me see how you walk. Now you walk." Although he sometimes falls down, but a father will encourage, "Oh, you are very nice. Stand up, stand up again. Walk." So give chance to the disciple how they can think properly to go back to home, back to Godhead, teacher is giving instruction and tries to see how he has developed. So that process is natural. And another process is that suppose a man comes to argue, so you should give him first chance, "All right, you say what is the import of these verses." Then he can understand his position, where he is. Then he captures him. Because an expert, he knows how to capture the fool. So let the fool first of all go on, talk all nonsense, then he'll understand where he is and he will capture. That is also a process.



Hayagrīva: Socrates, in a very famous allegory or metaphor, pictures humanity living in a dark cave, and the teacher has seen the light outside of the cave. He knows that there's something outside the cave that is light, and he may return to the cave to tell people in the cave that this is darkness. And the people in the cave, many of them would consider him to be crazy for speaking of such a thing as the light outside of the cave, and that this was a very, conceivably a very dangerous position to be in.



Prabhupāda: But actually that is the fact. Just like we are say so many times, Dr. Frog. A frog within the dark well, he is thinking, "Here is everything." And if he is informed, "Oh, there is big miles of water, Atlantic Ocean," so this Dr. Frog, from within the well he has never seen the Atlantic Ocean, and he cannot conceive that the water can be so expansive. So therefore those who are in the dark well, for them it is surprising that what is the light outside. But that's a fact. And one who has fallen, he is in the..., if he is crying that "I am fallen," so it is said that the man outside, he drops a rope, that "You catch this rope and I shall take it out." But he does not catch up. Just like we are presenting that you, everyone in the material world, you are suffering, you take, catch up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are refusing, or they do not admit; that is going on. But if one is fortunate, he can catch up the rope, and the man wants to help him, he can get him out. But he has to catch up. It is Kṛṣṇa's advice also, that "You are crying, you are suffering, you are finding, trying to find out how your suffering will be ended." That materialist, they are doing their own way, and the impersonalists, they are doing in their own way; *the yogis, they are doing in their own way. Everyone is trying to get out of the suffering. But when Kṛṣṇa says that these things will not help you, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], he does not catch up. That is his misfortune. God Himself says that "You take." "You take Me" means by His instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. "You take to Me, you will be saved." But they will not. That is their obstinacy. And the Vedas therefore says, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in the dark well. You come out to the light." But they will not come to the light. They want to remain in the dark well. And if you want to become perfect, that is their misfortune. Within this material world it is darkness, just like the, just now it is evening. It is giving us that actually it is dark. Because Kṛṣṇa has supplied the sun, moon, therefore it is light. But there is another place where, without sun, without moon, you will get light. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: na yatra bhāsayate sūryo, na pāvakaḥ, like that, there is a na yatra bhāsa, tad dhāma paramam, "That is My kingdom." So everything is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, but there is specially, that there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonshine, there is no need of electric light; it is all effulgent. So He is giving the information, but these rascals will not take. They want to make adjustment in the darkness of night. How it is possible? This is teaching also the nature's way of work. The sun is in the sky, but the arrangement is such that twelve hours it is darkness and twelve hours it is light. But sun is there always. There is no doubt about it. But the arrangement, this is just to convince us that actually it is dark. With the sunshine it is sometimes day and sunny. Similarly, happiness can be by the..., to remain under this sunshine, under the illumination of Kṛṣṇa. That is happiness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you want to be happy in darkness... Just like in darkness at night the only happiness is sleeping and sex, that's all. There is no other happiness. And when there was dark in New York, electricity failed, and so many women became pregnant. (laughs) Yes. In the darkness this is the happiness: either you sleep or you enjoy sex. That is happiness. That is material world; *therefore it is darkness. That is said in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam:



śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

*apaśyatām ātma*-tattvaṁ

*gṛheṣu gṛha*-medhinām

[SB 2.1.2]



nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ

vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ

divā cārthehayā rājan

*kuṭumba*-bharaṇena vā

[SB 2.1.3]



*These materialistic persons, they have got many things to hear, śrotavyādīni, huge, big, big volumes of newspaper, so many rascal information. Why they have got so many engagement? Apaśyatām ātma*-tattvam: [SB 2.1.2] because they do not know what is self-realization. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. They think that to live in this family life surrounded by wife, children, friends, this is life. So better use this newspaper and talk all nonsense and waste time. Their engagement is nidrayā. At night they sleep or enjoy sex, nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena, and in daytime they hanker after money, runs the motorcar head-break speed, neck-break speed.



Hayagrīva: Breakneck.



*Prabhupāda: Breakneck. And then what is the business? Searching out some means of food, exactly like the hog, he is loitering here and there, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And this is going on in the polished way as civilization. There is so much risk, as running these cars so many people are dying. There is record, it is very dangerous. At least I feel as soon as I go to the street, it is dangerous. The motorcar are running so speedy, and what is the business? The business is where to find out food. So therefore it is condemned that this kind of civilization is hoggish civilization. This hog is running after, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And you are running in a car. The same. Purpose is the same: "Where is stool?" Purpose is the same. Therefore this is not advancement of civilization. Advancement of civilization is, as Kṛṣṇa advises, that you require food, so produce food grain. Remain wherever you are. You can produce food grain anywhere, a little labor. And keep cows, go*-rakṣya, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Solve your problem like... Produce your food wherever you are there. Till little, little labor, and you will get your whole year's food. And distribute the food to the animal, cow, and eat yourself. The cow will eat the refuse. You take the rice, and the skin you give to the cow. From dahl you take the grain, and the skin you give to the... And fruit, you take the fruit, and the skin you give to the cow, and he will give you milk. So why should you kill him? Milk is the miraculous food; *therefore Kṛṣṇa says kṛṣi*-go-rakṣya vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya [Bg. 18.44]. Give protection to the cow, take milk from it, and eat food grains-your food problem is solved. Where is food problem? Why should you invent such civilization always full of anxieties, running the car here and there, and fight with other nation, and economic development? What is this civilization? Therefore we require to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness to become happy every way-economically, philosophically, religiously, culturally, everything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Hayagrīva: One last point on Socrates. For Socrates...



*Prabhupāda: Now this so*-called civilization is darkness. That is my point.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: It is not in the light. They are fighting within darkness. Just like if immediately this room become dark, everyone (indistinct). There is fighting. Stop it. You are asking me, "Prabhupāda, where you are?" I say "Here," and you are going in the other room.



Hayagrīva: Well he pictures in the cave the, something like a cinema, on the wall of the cave...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...and everyone is sitting in the cave looking, absorbed in the cinema, these forms that are not actual forms but are imitation forms.



Prabhupāda: But that means darkness.



Hayagrīva: Uh huh.



*Prabhupāda: Darkness, you are saying, "Prabhupāda, I am here," and I am looking here: "Where you are?" So that is the position of darkness. Everything you see, it is not clear. That is darkness. Therefore Vedic version is, "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." That light is guru. Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. This is guru's description. When we are in darkness of ignorance the guru, spiritual master, ignites the torch of knowledge. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalakā. Śalākayā means torch. Then he sees, "Oh, things are like this." In this way, when he becomes self-realized, brahma-bhū, then he becomes happy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati [Bg. 18.54]. That is civilization, to get the light. And to remain in the darkness and struggle for existence, that is not civilization; *that is animal life. It has no value. That is going on. Therefore we are trying to give Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the greatest contribution to the human society. Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are not manufacturing, we are not bluffing like other swamis and yogis and philosophers. We are simply carrying the light, torchlight, which Kṛṣṇa has given. That's all. So our business is very easy*-very easy and beneficial and practical.



*Hayagrīva: The good that Socrates speaks of is not the same as sattva*-guṇa. This is a quotation from The Republic. Socrates says, "This, then, which gives to the objects of knowledge their truth and to him who knows them his power of knowing is the form or essential nature of goodness."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "It is the cause of knowledge and truth, and so while he may think of it as an object of knowledge, he would do well to regard it as something beyond truth and knowledge, and precious as these both are, of still higher worth. And just as in our analogy light and vision were to be thought of like the sun, but not identical with it, so here both knowledge and truth are to be regarded as like the good, but to identify either with the good is wrong. The good must hold a yet higher place of honor. The objects of knowledge derive from the good not only their power of being known, but their very being and reality, and goodness is not the same thing as being, but even beyond being, surpassing it in dignity and power."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So goodness is the position where you can get knowledge. And passion and ignorance is not the platform of knowledge. Therefore the endeavor should be how to bring persons in the basic or base platform, ignorance and passion. So this is very easily done by our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If one hears about Kṛṣṇa, or God, then gradually he becomes freed from the clutches of darkness and passion, and actually he then comes to the platform of goodness. And when he is perfectly in goodness, then this passion and ignorance and their by*-products cannot touch him. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye [SB 1.2.19].



*naṣṭa*-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu

*nityaṁ bhāgavata*-sevayā

bhagavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

[SB 1.2.18]



*tadā rajas*-tamo-bhāvāḥ

*kāma*-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddham...

[SB 1.2.19]



*If we hear Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā regularly, then we become free from the effects of the modes of ignorance and passion, gradually, although it takes... But it is sure. The more you hear about Kṛṣṇa, or-Kṛṣṇa means His instruction or about Him, what He is*-the more you become purified. So that is the test, that how one has become purified means one is purified from the base quality of passion and ignorance, means that he is no more attacked by greediness and passion. That is the test. That means he is free from the base qualities, and he is situated, ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. When he is no more disturbed by these base qualities of passion and greediness, then he is happy. Then he becomes happy. Ceta etair anāvi..., sthitasya, that is goodness. That is goodness. Then he is happy, happiness, that the ultimate stage of goodness is brahma-bhūtaḥ, to realize himself, realize God. So goodness, one must come to the platform of goodness. So we are therefore asking people to give up these base qualitative activities-illicit sex and meat-eating and drinking or intoxication and gambling. These are base qualities. So anyone gives up these qualities, he remains in the sattva-guṇa. And then if he is promoted farther, just like Socrates said that goodness is not all, that still you have to..., and that is bhakti. Then his realization is perfect. He becomes liberated, and then gradually he develops love of God, then he is in the original state. Bhaktir hitvā anyathā. As mukti, liberation, means that to be free from this all nonsense engagements. Nitya-baddha, they are engaged, all these karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they are simply engaged in some false engagements to become happy. So when one is free from these false engagements, then he is in the liberated state. Mukti means muktir hitvā anyathā rūpam. Anyathā rūpam means he is acting otherwise. So one has to come to the real position, not work, act otherwise. So he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. When he fully engage himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, then he is liberated, and if he keeps himself, then nobody can touch, the māyā cannot touch. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā is very strong, but if one keeps in touch with Kṛṣṇa constantly, māyā has no jurisdiction. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. This is perfection of life.



Hayagrīva: Transcendental to the modes.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. No more affected by the modes of material nature. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. Such person is transcendental to the modes of material nature. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma [Bg. 14.26]. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. So every devotee, if he is strictly following the rules and regulation, he is in the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Just like there is epidemic, but one who has taken the vaccine, the epidemic cannot touch it. So that is like that. Brahma, when you come to the brahma-bhūtaḥ state, let..., there may be māyā, there may be so many activities of ignorance and passion*-he has nothing to do with. He is free. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ state. That is wanted. That is perfection.



Hayagrīva: So that's the conclusion of the additional notes on Socrates, Śrīla Prabhupāda.



Prabhupāda: Yes, it was very, very nice.



Hayagrīva: And if new philosophers that we will present eventually, oh, um, I don't know if these were ever...



Prabhupāda: Actually the main philosophy is Socrates. He is (indistinct).



Hayagrīva: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, these have been done. Just a little, a few additions. But then there's Plotinus, Origen, and Augustine, and these were the three philosophers who shaped Christian thought or Catholic, the Church thought, Church fathers, and St. Anselm, St. Thomas Aquinas, Scotus and Eckhart, these are Christian...



Prabhupāda: So they are not philosopher; they are Christian with different point of views. So we are not going to discuss with a person he is from the stand..., deviating from the standard way and thinking in their mental speculation.



Hayagrīva: But these, these are considered philosophers...



Prabhupāda: Considered, but because they belong to a certain sect of religion...



Hayagrīva: Because they are followers of Christ?



Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are deviating from the original Christian father, so they are useless.



Hayagrīva: They do, they do deviate. They...



Prabhupāda: No, you can not deviate. Then no more you are Christian. So you can..., you have no platform to talk from the Christianity. Therefore they should be rejected.



Hayagrīva: Uh huh. So Plotinus was not Christian, neither was Origen...



Prabhupāda: If you say Christian, you must follow the four..., ten commandments of Christ. If you don't follow, you make your own ways to escape, then you are no longer Christian. So you cannot talk.



Hayagrīva: But Augustine was one of the ones who maintained that animals do not have souls.



Prabhupāda: Therefore he is a rascal.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: He is a rascal.



Hayagrīva: And this was accepted...



Prabhupāda: Now, what do you, what do you use, what the use to talking with a rascal? It is waste of time. (end)





PLATO.HAY



Plato



Hayagrīva: This is the additional notations on Plato. For Plato, the spiritual world is not a mental conception. For Plato, truth is the same as the ultimate reality, the ideal or the highest good, and it is from this that all manifestations and cognitions flow. Plato uses the word "idea" in order to denote a subject's primordial existence, or maybe it's archetype. I think that Kṛṣṇa uses the word bījam.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: Bījam, seed, "I am the seed of all existence"?



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.



Hayagrīva: For instance...



*Prabhupāda: Bījāhaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, that even the spiritual world and material world, everything is emanation from Him. The difference is, in the material everything is created and maintained then annihilated. In the spiritual world that is not the case. Just like material world this body, and spiritual world the soul. The body is created, maintained and annihilated; *the soul is not. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. After the destruction of the body, the spirit soul is not destroyed. What happens to him? He takes another body. And one who is perfect, he goes directly to Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. So we can make this life... Because we are preparing for the next life, so why not take advantage of going back to home, back to Godhead? This is our mission. You have to prepare yourself either for going to the higher planetary system, yānti devān deva*-vratāḥ... You can go to the higher planetary system, you can go lower, and you can go to Godhead. So they, therefore, if I have to change this body and go elsewhere, why not go to God? That is intelligence. Now what is the advantage? If you go to God, then you will have..., haven't got to change any more this body. That is eternal, blissful. Therefore our intelligence should be utilized how to go to back to home, back to Godhead. That is intelligence.



Hayagrīva: Now you said to Śyāmasundara that water existed before our mental conception of H2O. We conceive of H2O, we think of well, what is..., we begin to analyze water, and we say, well, it's two parts hydrogen, one part oxygen. But before we even began to think of this, water existed.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Therefore H2O is not the permanent essence or the primordial existence of water, but what Plato is saying is that everything that exists has its seed or essence or idea.



Prabhupāda: Seed is originally with Kṛṣṇa.



Hayagrīva: Yes. The seed is, then, Kṛṣṇa says bījam, "I am the seed..."



*Prabhupāda: Bīja ahaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām. Whatever is manifest, the original God had.



Hayagrīva: That... Is that the bījam is the unmanifest...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...is the unmanifest essence of an object.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: Uh*-huh. That...



Prabhupāda: Just like the tree. Before manifestation it is a seed, but within that seed the whole tree is there.



Hayagrīva: Plato would call that the idea or the archetype.



Prabhupāda: That is not idea; that is fact.



Hayagrīva: Not idea, fact.



Prabhupāda: Fact. If you sow a seed of rose flower, it will come as rose tree. If you grow a seed of mango tree, it will come as mango tree. So it is not idea; it is fact. Simply it is in nascent state, but it is a fact. You cannot make your idea, "Now here is a seed, let it be mango tree." It will not make. If it is rose tree it will come rose tree. So your idea has no value. Seed means the nascent state.



Hayagrīva: The na..., the...



Prabhupāda: Nascent. What is called?



Hayagrīva: Neh...?



Prabhupāda: Nascent.



Hayagrīva: Nescient?



Prabhupāda: Yes, nascent. What is the...



Hayagrīva: (sic:) Nescent.



Prabhupāda: What is spelling?



*Hayagrīva: (sic:) N*-e-s-c-e-n-t. To be..., not yet developed.



Prabhupāda: Manifested, yes, yes.



Hayagrīva: Plato states that the material world is restricted to limitations of time and space, whereas the spiritual world transcends time and space.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He also states that time began with the creation of the material world. And how does this comply with the Vedic statement that time is eternal?



Prabhupāda: Yes, time is eternal. The present, past, present, the three features of time, it is relative. What is your past or your future, that is not past, future, of Brahmā. Brahmā lives for millions of years. So within millions of years I had many past, present and future. Present..., past, present and future is relative according to the person, but the time is eternal. That is the point. It is clear? The past, present, future is relative according to the body. Otherwise time is eternal. Time has no past, present, future.



Hari-śauri: That means like time is actually like presence?



Prabhupāda: No. Presence... It is always present. Say just like a small germ, he lives for three minutes. So his past, present, future within three minutes, while I am living. So I am not within his past, present and future. Therefore past, present, future is relative. My past, present, future is different from the past, present, future of a small germ. That is the idea.



*Hayagrīva: Now, concerning the creation, Plato says that material nature, or prakṛti, has always existed in a chaotic state, but that God takes prakṛti and fashions it into form in order to create the universe. So in this sense God is the hand worker or the master designer. God is the creator of forms from pre*-existent matter, and yet He does not create directly.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: It's stated...



Prabhupāda: No. Just like I have created a machine to manufacture something. I am, I set on in motion, and the products is coming automatically, products are coming automatically.



Hayagrīva: Automatically.



*Prabhupāda: Simply I have to set up the machine. Just like in a press, the machine has to be set up, and automatically you will see the magazines are coming all complete. The printing, the binding*-everything complete; *you simply take it now. There are many machines like that, that you set up the machine and simply stand and see how from the raw state it has come into the finishing state. So bījāhaṁ sarva*-bhūtānām. He has created such a seed that you sow the seed and that the tree will come. This is God's machine. He has created the seed only. Now the seed of the universe is coming from Him. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya [Bs. 5.48]. He is breathing, and thousands and millions of seeds of universes are coming, and they are becoming manifested. Same way, seed. And when He is inhaling, everything is finished. So this manifestation and not manifestation is depending on His breathing process. When He is exhaling you see the manifestation; when He is inhaling, everything is finished. This is going on. So the cause of creation and annihilation is His breathing. So He is breathing always, but the process of creation and annihilation is going on. But if you think, "Kṛṣṇa is breathing like me," then it is finished; your knowledge is finished. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. "Because I am speaking to these rascal like a human being, they are thinking Me as one of them." This is..., they are mūḍha. They are misled. As soon as he thinks Kṛṣṇa is, "Ah, He is a person like me. He is born in Mathurā, I have seen. How He becomes God?" Brahmā was bewildered. "This boy, this cowherd boy is accepted as God. Let me test." Indra was misled. Muhyanti yat sūrayoḥ. Even big, big demigods, they are also bewildered. So Kṛṣṇa answered them. Brahmā had stolen all His calves and cows and friends, and when he came to see what He is doing, they were the same. He has expanded Himself. He is surprised. "Well I have actually taken His calves and cows. They are sleeping under my spell." Then he answered, "Yes, He is God." Then he is praying there, in the picture.



*Hayagrīva: Plato states that every object in the universe is made with some purpose, and its ideal goal is to move toward the ideal in which it's archetype or essence resides. So according to the Vedic version, Kṛṣṇa is the all*-attractive object of the universe; therefore all things must be moving toward Him. How is it the jīva apparently turns from Kṛṣṇa to participate in the world of birth and death?



*Prabhupāda: That is māyā. That is māyā, illusion. He should not have deviated, but out of the influence of māyā he is doing that and he is suffering. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. "You stop this plan-making. You simply surrender unto Me and do what I say, then you are happy." That is practical.



Hayagrīva: Here is a famous quotation from Plato. He says, "God put intelligence in the soul and the soul in the body that He," that is God, "might be the creator of a work which was by nature best."



*Prabhupāda: We say that the living entity is part and parcel of God, mamaivāṁśa. Under the circumstances he has got almost all the qualities of God, but partially, because God is great and we are minute. So even though we have got all the qualities of God-not all, certain percentage, say seventy-eight percent*-in minute quantity. Just like God has creative power, we have got also creative power. We have created the 747 flying machine. All right, get credit for that, but you cannot create a flying ball like sun floating in the sky. That is difference between God and me. You can take credit that you are keeping suspension in the air a big machine, 747, but it is not in your power that you can float millions and millions of planets floating in the air. That is not possible. Therefore God is great; *I am small. That is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And as soon as he says, "I am as good or as great as God," then He is a rascal. That is Māyāvādī. He is in māyā. Just like one man in India, he is showing some jugglery. He makes like this and creates some gold, a little gold, but foolish people are enamored. "Ah, he is God." But we are not enamored, but we know that he may create a small piece of gold, but God has created many millions of gold mines. So if creation of gold is the standard of becoming God, then why shall we accept this tiny man as God, who has created the mines, not only one mine, in this planet there are hundreds and thousands of gold mines and there are so many planets. There are, there is, I was reading this, Trikūṭa, Trikūṭa mountain, eight thousand miles high, eight thousand miles wide and long, and it has got three big, big peaks. One is of iron, one is of silver, and one is of gold. So the mountain, eight thousand miles high, peak gold, silver. So who can manufacture such gold? You cannot manufacture gold. That is not possible. So even you may so*-called manufacture that, can you manufacture the peak of gold?



Hayagrīva: No. (laughs) It tarnishes.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: It tarnishes in time. It doesn't remain.



Prabhupāda: One king, by the grace of Lord Śiva, he got information in the Himalaya some spot of gold, so he hugely manufactured gold utensils. And the yajña, everything is gold, and the brāhmaṇas are given gold plates and gold. And they, in those days brāhmaṇas are not greedy, so they thought, "Who carries this weight? Throw it. It is bothersome." The king thought that "I am giving a very valuable, contributing charity," but they thought that "What is this utensils? I have to carry this. Throw it." So they are stacked up. So when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira finished his whole treasury on account of the war and he wanted to perform yajña, he asked Arjuna, "You bring some money somewhere." So Arjuna was little perplexed. Kṛṣṇa gave him this information: "You go there. There is stack of gold utensils you can bring." So when he brought it, his name was Dhanañjaya, "conquering over wealth." There are so many gold peaks, gold mines. Who cares for that? Those who are materialistic person, they will give some man, and those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will see, "What I have to do with all gold? I require some money for making propagation. Otherwise what is the use of stacking gold? There is no use."



*Hayagrīva: Plato believes that at death there is an end of the sensory life of the individual-his thoughts, his perceptions and experiences*-and the individual then returns to the ideal world from which he came.



*Prabhupāda: That means he believes in eternity. This loss of senses, that is we also accept that there are three stages: jāgrati, awakening, and sleeping and deep sleeping. So deep sleeping means unconsciousness. So when a man dies from awakening state, he enters into the dreaming state and then enters into the deep sleeping state. So transmigration of the soul means he gives up this gross body, and the subtle body, mind, intelligence carries him to the another body, and in another body, unless the body is prepared properly, he lives in deep sleep. And when the body is prepared at seven months for human being, then he comes to consciousness. He feels, "Oh, why I am put into this packed-up status." If he is pious he feels very uncomfortable. He prays to God-these things are described*-that "Kindly excuse me from this awkward position. Now this time I shall become a devotee." This is position. The soul is immortal, but still he enters into different stages of life. Then when he comes out, the same different stages of body continues. In childhood he is something different from his boyhood; boyhood something different from youthhood; and he is the same, but he is passing through different... That is called evolution. So when he comes to the perfect stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then his life is successful. Just like a flower, in the bud stage, in the fructified stage, in the blooming stage, and when it is fully bloomed it looks very nice, beautiful. Similarly, when by gradual development when you come to the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our whole beauty is revealed.



Hayagrīva: He also stressed the process of remembering. It's called the, his, Plato's doctrine of recollection. And he says you can ask a boy, who may be ignorant of a subject, you can elicit answers from him, and this answers, he may give you the right answers, and this would suggest that he acquired this knowledge in a previous existence.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we find a student in school is very intelligent and less intelligent. Otherwise both of them of the same age, why one is more intelligent, he grasps the matter very quickly, and why the other is not so intelligent? This is everything that putra-janma dṛḍhaṁ vidyā putra-janma dṛḍhaṁ dhanam. (indistinct) The two things especially, knowledge, education and money, they are earned in the previous birth, not that all of a sudden one has become rich, all of a sudden one has become very learned man. No. It is continuous. So if one man is extraordinarily learned, it is to be understood that it is the result of his previous culture. Similarly, if anyone is extraordinarily rich, it is to be understood it is due to his past pious activities. Janmaiśvarya-śruta*-śrī [SB 1.8.26], these four things are achieved on account of previous pious activities: good birth, good opulence, aiśvarya, and good education, and good beauty. These are the results of pious, good activities. So you can see practically in your country between the black and white. The white men are more advanced in everything, and the black man, although he has got the same facilities, they are in inferior position. Why? It is putra-janma dṛḍham. That is the proof of past life. But so far we are concerned, we are not concerned about one black man or white man. Both of them are in the clutches of māyā. We want to educate all of them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they have got equal opportunity, it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ [SB 2.4.18]. Never mind what is his body, if he is willing to become trained to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the platform of the soul, that we can do.



Hayagrīva: Now for Plato, perfect happiness is in attempting to become godlike.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: Perfect happiness is in attempting to become godlike.



Prabhupāda: Godlike?



Hayagrīva: Godlike, godly.



Prabhupāda: Godly, yes.



*Hayagrīva: Insofar as man resembles God, he is ethical. Evil forces within man combat his efforts to attain this ultimate goal. Plato is not a determinist. He emphasized freedom of the will and insisted that evil acts are due to man's failure to live up to his responsibility. They do not come from God, who is all*-good.



Prabhupāda: Everything comes from God, but we have to make our choice. This ideal example: that the university comes from the government and the prison house also comes from the government, but the prison house is meant for the criminal and the university is meant for the highly learned scholar. The government spends money in both the departments to maintain it; therefore, so far government's recognition is concerned, it has to be maintained. But it is we, we make our selection whether go to the prison house or go to the university. That is, that little independence is there in every human being. We have to make our choice.



Hayagrīva: He says that perfection within the world of the senses can never be attained...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...and Kṛṣṇa says something like that, um...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that Kṛṣṇa says...



Hayagrīva: "Imperfections..., there will always be imperfections like smoke and fire," something like that.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that, uh, He says that everything has got some defect, material. Even the fire, so powerful, so fire has also some defect: the smoke. So apart from that imperfection, if we execute our prescribed duties exactly in the way as it is enjoined in the śāstra, that even there is some defect, still we can get perfection. Just like Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving chance, everyone, to become perfect by his own work. It doesn't matter brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or what means according to Vedic civilization, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So brāhmaṇa is giving knowledge, kṣatriya is giving protection, vaiśya is giving food, and śūdra is general help to everyone. So if the whole thing is done under the direction of the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya executes the orders of the brāhmaṇa, and the vaiśyas supply food*-because food is required, that is materially required-then everything is perfect. [break] (aside with Hari-śauri regarding tape recorder)



Hayagrīva: All right, this is... Later in The Republic, in the allegory of the cave, we mentioned before, Socrates says, "In the world of knowledge, the last thing to be perceived, and only with great difficulty, is the essential form of goodness. Once it is perceived, the conclusion must follow that for all things, this is the cause of whatever is right and good. In the visible world it gives birth to light and to the Lord of light while it is itself sovereign in the intelligible world and the parent of the intelligible world and the parent of intelligence and truth. Without having had a vision of this Form," he uses capital "F," Form, "no one can act with wisdom either in his own life or in matters of state." And here, he, Socrates mentions form but he doesn't mention personality. He mentions the form of goodness, but through intellection, or jñāna, how is it possible to perceive the form of God or the form of goodness? What could he possibly mean by...



Prabhupāda: That is from Vedic same. As soon as there is instruction there is form. As Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction, He is always saying "I," "you," like that, it is personal. He says Arjuna, "You," and He says Himself, "I." So Arjuna is also form and Kṛṣṇa is also form, and Kṛṣṇa also says that "Both you, Me, and all these living entities, kings and soldiers who are assembled here, they existed in the past, they are existing now, and they will continue to exist." So you can understand that "In the present I am in form, so I existed in the past in form and I shall continue to exist in the future as form. So where is formless?" From my present position I can understand my past and future. So Kṛṣṇa says that we existed in the past. So we existing now, now I mean to say, continuing. He never said that "In the past we were formless; now we have got form." This is not stated there. Rather, He condemns, that avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam manyante mām abuddhayaḥ [Bg. 7.24]: "In the past I was formless, impersonal, and now I am a person," that is Māyāvādī thought, that when God takes the form, He takes the form of māyā. So they have been condemned as abuddhayaḥ, no intelligence. Avyaktaṁ vyaktiṁ āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ [Bg. 7.24]. Those who have less intelligence, they think like that, that "God was formerly formless, now He is talking in form, that means He has accepted the body of māyā." This is called Māyāvāda philosophy.



Hayagrīva: Concerning education, he says, "We must conclude that education is not what it is said to be by some who profess to put knowledge into a soul which does not possess it, as if they can put sight into blind eyes. On the contrary, our own account signifies that the soul of every man does possess the power of learning the truth and the organ to see it with, and that just as one might have to turn the whole body around in order that the eye should see light instead of darkness, so the entire soul must be turned away from this changing world until its eye can bear to contemplate reality and that supreme splendor which we have called good. Hence there may well be an art whose aim would be to effect this very thing, the conversion of the soul, in the readiest way, not to put the power of sight into the soul's eye, which already has it, but to insure that instead of looking in the wrong direction, it is turned the way it ought to be.



Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



Hayagrīva: That.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Yes. It's that art, he says.



Prabhupāda: It is an art, that our aim of life by these sensually affected senses... At the present moment we are sensually affected. I want to eat something which is very palatable, I eat it. I do not care whether this palatable eating will mislead me or lead me to the proper way. Therefore we are making this propaganda. So your eating process is not stopped. You eat, but don't eat meat, you eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. So if we agree to this process, then gradually we become purified by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our aim, objective, is attained. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't stop eating. No sensual activities are stopped. The eyes, in the material way, the eyes want to see very beautiful objective. We say, "Yes, you see the beautiful Kṛṣṇa. You taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam." Everything is there; simply we purify. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. If this process is accepted, then when he sees real beauty, real food, real, then he becomes satisfied. That is wanted.



Hayagrīva: Well, one last point is that neither Socrates, Plato or Aristotle ever mentions service to God; rather, they always speak of contemplation of God's reality or the Supreme Splendor. It's always contemplation, meditation. Is this typical of the jñānī? Or... There's no mention of service.



Prabhupāda: No, this is the process of knowing God. They are partially helpful to know God as He is, but when he actually comes to know God, he sees that "He is the great and I am the small." So the business of the small is to serve the great. That is nature's way. We practically see in our daily life, because you are small you are going to serve a big factory. Otherwise you have no other way. So everyone is serving, but when he realizes that "I am serving. I am not the master," that is the position actually. Ask anybody in this world whether he is master or serving, the conclusion will be that he is serving. His natural position is to serve. So if one hasn't got a family to serve, he keeps a dozen of dog to serve. That is going on, and especially in the Western countries we see that at the old age, when he has no children, so he keeps a dog or two or three pets to serve. So the serving position is already there, and when the servant wants to become master, that is māyā. Because this word māyā means actually he is serving and he is thinking that he is master. That is māyā. Māyā means what is not fact. So by meditation, when he actually becomes a realized soul, he will understand that "Oh, I am servant. So why I am serving māyā? Let me serve Kṛṣṇa." That is perfection. So if his guide, spiritual master, engages him from the very beginning to serve God, then he becomes quickly perfect, because he is servant and he has to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is his perfection. He is falsely thinking that he is master. That is māyā. Here also they are simply serving. Just like President Nixon. He thought himself, "I am the master of America." But actually he is not. The master is the public. As soon as the public wanted "You come down immediately," he had to do that. So if the president of big state, he is under the false impression that although he is serving he is thinking master, then what to speak of others? Everyone is serving, but he is thinking master. So perfect knowledge is there that when he comes to the platform that "God is the supreme master, He is great, and we are servant." That is perfection of life.



Hayagrīva: In his Politics, Plato changes his mind later in life. In the beginning he believed that in an ideal state the leaders should possess nothing of their own, neither property nor family. He felt that they must live together in a community where wives and children are held in common to guard against corruption, bribery and nepotism in government. He felt that the elite philosophers should mate with women of high qualities in order to produce the best children for positions of responsibility. Now, how does this view of common wives and children correspond to the Vedic version?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedic civilization is that, that putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. A man should accept a wife for putra, for son. Why son? Putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam: a putra should be responsible for offering piṇḍa, so that after death, even by mistake or somehow or other I am in a wrong position, by the piṇḍa I am elevated. This is idea. So marriage is for having good son, that's a fact, who will deliver me even if I am in the hell. Therefore the śraddhā ceremony in there. So even the father is in hell, by this śraddhā ceremony he will be delivered. This is the idea. So unless one has got son, nobody is going to offer him śraddhā oblation, and even one may be very benevolent, but it is not expected. But it is the duty of the son, as it is said, putra. Pu means there is a hell pundama (?). The hell's name is pundama, pun. So I mean, pu and tra, tra means one who delivers. If by chance I am put into pundama naraka trayate, one who delivers me from that hellish condition of life, he is putra, and for this kind of putra I accept a wife, not for my sex enjoyment. And it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, one who uses his sex for these religious activities, that "I shall get good father, a good son who can deliver me," then marriage is required. Otherwise it is useless. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi. Kṛṣṇa says, "Sex life which is not against religious principle, that is I am." And sex life which is, which has no religious principle, that is sense gratification leading one to hell. So this theory: that we should marry, we should have sex life for creating good progeny. And my Guru Mahārāja used to say*-he was a sannyāsī brahmacārī-but he said that "If I could produce really Kṛṣṇa conscious children, I can use hundred times sex life. Otherwise why shall I use my sex for cat, producing cats and dog?" He has said like that. So the śāstra also says, pitā na sa syāt janani na sa syāt: the father's, mother's duty is how to rescue their children from the cycle of birth and death. That is real father and mother. Otherwise cats and dogs, they are also father and mother. That is not wanted. Vedic culture is different. Produce children for such education and such accomplishment that he can be saved from the cycle of birth and death, and the putra should be such qualified that even his father goes to the hellish condition of pundama, he will deliver him. That is the idea of becoming father and family.



Hayagrīva: He believed that the best form of government is an enlightened monarchy, enlightened monarchy.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is we say, rājarṣi, rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Rājarṣi means king, at the same time saintly.



Hayagrīva: Saintly.



Prabhupāda: That is idea. He has taken these ideas from the Vedic literature.



Hayagrīva: When this form degenerates, it becomes a tyranny.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: When it degenerates.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: The second best form is an aristocracy, and when it deteriorates it becomes an oligarchy, rule of corrupt men. And he considered democracy to be one of the worst forms of government...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my, I have said...



Hayagrīva: ...for when it deteriorates, it degenerates into mob rule.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that's a fact, very good. But the best thing is monarchy, because if the monarch is rājarṣi, he is not only king... That is necessary. Kṛṣṇa wants that, that the government should be ruled; *therefore we praise, offer so much respect to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit and Lord Rāmacandra, how to become an ideal king. He is Personality of Godhead. He showed how to become Rāma*-rājya. So this is very good because it is not expensive. One man is maintained by the state very nicely, and nowadays these democracies' mob rule means instead of one king there are 300,000 kings in a state, and they are looting the hard-earned money by income tax, and everything is so polluted. So the condemnation of democracy is supported by us. It is mob rule. It has no value.



Hayagrīva: Socrates and Plato.



Prabhupāda: That's all right.



Hayagrīva: They had city states that were, uh...



*Prabhupāda: Mini*-states.



Hayagrīva: ...democracy. They were, they were so small that everyone could get together.



Prabhupāda: Pañcayat, in India it was pañcayat. So each man of the village, it is to reduce the responsibility of the state if that small cases, the pañcayat, some of the important men of the village they would sit together, and whatever they will decide, that the state will accept, court will accept. So minimize the responsibility of the court in deciding several cases. So in the India the Pañcayat system is there.



Hayagrīva: The what?



Prabhupāda: Pañca, Pañcayat means...



Hayagrīva: Pañcat?



Prabhupāda: Pañca.



Hayagrīva: Pañca.



Prabhupāda: Pañca means five, five selected men from the village sit down and decide the case. That will be accepted by the government.



Hayagrīva: Greece, Greece was not a country as such; it was composed of small towns or cities, and Athens was...



Prabhupāda: Anywhere.



Hayagrīva: ...Athens was the biggest, and everyone got together and the wisest men spoke, and they voted on their decisions.



Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of Parliament.



Hayagrīva: Parliament.



*Prabhupāda: So in monarchy also there was council of learned men, brāhmaṇas, great saintly persons. Even Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was guided like that. Lord Rāmacandra was guided. That is the system. Even monarchy was there, still he was advised by learned scholars and brāhmaṇas and saintly persons, and he would do according to their decision. And Vena Mahārāja, he was not ruling. The brāhmaṇas came, advised him, "My dear King, you are not doing nicely. You should do like this." And when he refused, then he was killed, and his son Prthu Mahārāja was give charge. So*-called democracy is ludicrous, that's a fact. All fools and rascals bribing, and this way and that way they have taken post, and when they go to the post, simply squander money, that's all. Just they take bribes from big, big men, that "I will give you, repay you ten times, you give me money."



Hari-śauri: The system of continuously changing the government every four years means that...



Prabhupāda: Every four days!



Devotee: For four years that "I'll take advantage as much as possible for my personal gain, and then retire rich."



*Prabhupāda: It is very, a very dangerous position, this so*-called democracy. Nobody cares for it. So sometimes this emergency is required, but if it is used again for personal aggrandizement, then it is also. Actually, the perfection of government is monarchy, and the monarchy, monarch should be ideal rājarṣi. That is the Indian's, Vedic system. The Vedic system was there everywhere; therefore still there are monarchs. But they are simply maintaining the monarchy, but actually monarch has no power.



Hayagrīva: I think in the history of the West all the monarchs have been ogres except maybe with the exception of Constantine, who was a Christian monarch, and I think that was the only one.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: But it was not...



*Prabhupāda: Monarch, that is the idea, rājarṣi. Rāja and ṛṣi. He is in the position of rāja, but he is actually a great sage. That is required. Then everything will be perfect. Rājarṣayo viduḥ, Kṛṣṇa says. And if the monarch, the chief man in the state, he understands Bhagavad*-gītā, then everything will be immediately perfect. Everything, immediate. Formerly the kings were (indistinct). Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2], it clearly stated. But the, there is no monarchy, and all loafer class they are taking charge of government. They do not know. Why they will know it? They have gone there for getting some money. "I am now in position, get that much money (indistinct)." They know, "After five years I will be nowhere, so let me accumulate some money while I am on the ministerial post." This is going on. Who cares for the good of the citizen? If we discuss these things, it will be great criticism, but this is the position. (end)





ARISTOTLE.HAY



Aristotle



Hayagrīva: ...quotations on Aristotle. Aristotle believes that God expresses Himself through matter, although he also believes that God is transcendent and separate from the universe.



Prabhupāda: He believes some way and other believes some way, so which is..., which one is correct?



Hayagrīva: He does not follow Plato's dualism of the "here" and the "there." Plato made a sharp distinction between the material universe and the spiritual universe, but Aristotle believes there is no sharp distinction because God expresses Himself in matter. Since matter is simply one of God's energies, the finite reflects the infinite.



Prabhupāda: So what is the other energy? Does he know?



Hayagrīva: He doesn't concern himself with that. He says that by knowing something of the world about us, we can know something about God.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: So his, his...



*Prabhupāda: It may be that you know something about God. Then you have to admit that you do not know everything about God. So their knowledge is imperfect. Our point is that we know everything of God from God. So that knowledge is perfect. As Kṛṣṇa said in the Seventh Chapter, that mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. "If you concentrate your mind on your attachment to Me, and if you execute yoga meditation, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you understand Me fully and without any doubt." So instead of speculating in God, if we simply think of God, that will help us. To escape from darkness, if you speculate about the sun by some suggestion, by some concoction, this is one kind of knowledge. But if you actually come out of the darkness and see the sun, then it is complete (indistinct).



Hayagrīva: Now...



Prabhupāda: These Western philosophers, mostly they are contemplating about the sunshine in darkness. But that is not the way of understanding the sun. Best thing is to come in the sunshine, see yourself, see the sunshine, see the sun. There is (indistinct).



Hayagrīva: Here's another point. Aristotle says that it is not material objects that are trying to realize God, like as Plato says, but God realizing Himself through material objects. God does this in a variegated way and in an infinite way. So God realizes the potentiality of a rose or of a man by creating a rose, a flower, a man that is perceivable by the material senses. So the world is more real to Aristotle than it is to Plato.



*Prabhupāda: If God has created the material world and material variety, so means He is in full awareness how to do things nicely. That is perfectness of God. He knows everything how to do it perfectly, naturally. Just like even a child, we get daily experience, when we offer some cake in the Deity room, the child immediately takes it and puts in the mouth. Although she is very small baby, (s)he doesn't require any education about taking the cake and what to do with it. Immediately puts in the mouth. So this natural, what is called, knowledge, that is God's knowledge. He knows everything perfectly well, and when He produces a rose flower, it is all*-perfect. That is God's... God is not..., He has to get the knowledge through some source. He is already in awareness of everything. That is God. So He hasn't got to know His capacity through matter.



Hayagrīva: Now Aristotle would say that the flower is real because it has its basis in the ultimate reality, God.



Prabhupāda: That..., how God can be not in knowledge? He is full in knowledge. That is God.



Hayagrīva: Plato would say that the flower is a shadow of reality, a perverted reflection of reality. So which point of view would be...?



Prabhupāda: Yes, it is... When the flower is in the material world..., material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. That's a fact. We have got experience that material things are created, but in the spiritual world things are not created; they are already there, everlasting. So it appears Aristotle has no knowledge of the spiritual world.



Hayagrīva: Aristotle defines God as pure form and pure act and purely nonmaterial. He is absolute spirit and is the unmoved mover.



Prabhupāda: Yes. He is absolute spirit, there is no doubt upon it, but why He should come to know Himself through material world? That is defective.



Hayagrīva: Aristotle's God contemplates Himself. He does not have any knowledge of the world...



Prabhupāda: Who?



Hayagrīva: ...as such.



Prabhupāda: Who has no knowledge?



Hayagrīva: God.



Prabhupāda: What kind of God is that?



Hayagrīva: I don't know.



Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is Aristotle's ignorance, that he does not know what is God and he is speaking about God. That is his ignorance.



Hayagrīva: Nor, he says, nor can God return the love that He receives. He doesn't love or care for mankind.



*Prabhupāda: So He is in perfect knowledge, then why He should not reciprocate? So God reciprocates. It is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. As much as we offer our love to God, He, what is called, cooperates, cooperative response. When we fully surrender and fully in loving service, then we can understand God, what He is actually.



Hayagrīva: Aristotle sees the love going one way. He says that God is loved by everything in the universe and that He attracts all objects in the universe because everything is striving toward Him and longing for Him.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: But there is no mention of God as a person, although he says He's pure form. Is this an imagined form like the Māyāvādīs may imagine a form?



Prabhupāda: Yes. He has got the tilt of Māyāvāda. That is his imperfect knowledge of God. Because he does not receive knowledge from God, he speculates; therefore his knowledge is imperfect.



Hayagrīva: Aristotle's belief in the soul changed. He has three conceptions of the soul. One is that the soul is a separate substance, another is that the body is the instrument of the soul, and the third is the soul is the form of the body.



Prabhupāda: Yes, this can be explained. The body is just like the dress of the soul. So our dress is made according to our body. The tailor takes the measurement of the body and makes the coat accordingly. So the coat appears with the hand because we have got hand. Coat, pant appears as a leg because we have got leg. So this body is simply a, what is called, coating or shirting of the soul. Actually the soul has got form, shape, form, and therefore the cloth, which will generally have no shape, is, when it comes in contact with the soul, it becomes a shape.



Hayagrīva: Now for both Plato and Aristotle, God is known by reason, not by revelation or by religious experience, not by mystical experience...



*Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. You cannot... God is unlimited. You have got limited power to see or to smell or to touch. You have got all limited, and God is unlimited. So you cannot understand God by your limited power of sensual activities. Therefore God is revelation. We say that ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. You cannot understand by speculating your senses. That is not possible. When you engage yourself in His service, then He reveals. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. God says that "I am not exposed to everyone. I am covered by the yoga-māyā." That is fact. So unless God reveals Himself... So God not only reveals, He appears, and great authorities, they are searching. Just like Kṛṣṇa appeared, and great authorities like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Śukadeva Gosvāmī and then the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu-big, big stalwart scholars and transcendentalists*-they accepted Kṛṣṇa. All the śāstras accept Kṛṣṇa. Long, long years, five thousand years, when there was no philosophy in the Western world, God revealed Himself, face to face. Arjuna saw Him and he accepted Him. And similarly other great persons accepted Him. So God is not to be speculated, but by one's service, when He is pleased, He reveals Himself.



Hayagrīva: There is a great deal of emphasis in Aristotle on reason. He says happiness depends on man's acting in a rational way. The rational way is the virtuous way. The virtuous way is the way of intellectual insight. There is a suggestion of sense control but no bhakti. So is it possible to obtain happiness simply by controlling the senses by the mind?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the process of becoming a human being. The lower beings, animals, they do not know this process. Just like they are busy only for sense gratification*-eating, sleeping, mating and defense, their only business. But a human being can be engaged by proper guidance in contemplation. Just like Aristotle is contemplating or Plato is con..., this is human being's business. But such contemplation should be guided by authorities. Otherwise one can contemplate with his limited senses for many, many millions of years, it will be impossible to understand what is God.



Hayagrīva: But for happiness, or ānanda, isn't bhakti essential, love, or ānanda?



*Prabhupāda: Ānanda means... God is full ānanda, sac*-cid-ānanda. He is eternal, sat; He is spiritual; and He is ānanda, bliss. So unless one comes in contact with God, there is no question of ānanda. (Sanskrit). In the Vedic literatures we understand that God is reservoir of all pleasure, unlimited. So when you come in contact with God, then you will taste what is pleasure. So material pleasure is only perverted reflection of the real pleasure. Real pleasure is possible when we come in contact with God.



Hayagrīva: In his Ethics, Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle writes, "Moral excellence is concerned with pleasure and pain. It is pleasure that makes us do base or ignoble action, and pain that prevents us from doing noble actions. For that reason," as Plato says, "men must be brought up from childhood to feel pleasure and pain at the proper things, for this is correct education." So how does this correspond to the Vedic view of education?



Prabhupāda: Vedic view of education is, actually there is no pleasure in this material world, because we may arrange for all pleasure artificially in the material world, but all of sudden one has to die. So where is the pleasure? If you make arrangement of all pleasure and all of a sudden death comes upon you, then where is pleasure? So first of all they must, if they are intelligent, they must make arrangement that they will be able to enjoy the pleasures they have created. Otherwise, where is pleasure? It is disappointment. That is going on. They are trying to become pleased by inventing so many things, but because they are controlled by some superior element, so at any moment they will be kicked out of the pleasure platform. Then where is pleasure? Therefore the conclusion should be: there is no pleasure in this material world. If one is searching after pleasure in the material world, then it is the same thing as the animal is searching water in the desert. There is no water in the desert; it is simply illusion, and he is preparing for death. Because he is thirsty, he is searching after water, and in the wrong way he is searching water. The ultimate result will be he will die of thirst.



Hayagrīva: One last statement from Aristotle. He states, in his Politics, he says, "The beauty of the body is seen, whereas the beauty of the soul is not seen." Is this true?



Prabhupāda: Beauty of the soul is real beauty, and beauty of the body is superficial. Not every body is beautiful. There are so many bodies very ugly, and there are so many bodies very beautiful. So the material sense, this ugliness and beautifulness, they are all artificial. But the beauty of the soul is real; that is not artificial. So unless we see the beauty of the Supersoul, Kṛṣṇa, we have no idea what is actually beauty. Therefore devotees, they want to see the beauty of Kṛṣṇa, not any artificial beauty of this material world.



Hayagrīva: There's no correspondence there. That is to say, a beautiful body does not necessarily house a beautiful soul. There's no correspondence.



Prabhupāda: No, there is correspondence, because we say this material world is perverted reflection. So originally the soul is beauty, but here the beauty is covered. But we can simply have a glimpse of the real beauty from the material covering, but we have to wait to see the beauty of the soul. That is real point.



Hayagrīva: I read that Socrates was a very ugly man but that he had a very beautiful soul, and people were attracted to his soul. That was the, supposedly...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The example can be given that the quail, it is called kokil, it is very black, just like crow. But when you vibrates the voice, it is so beautiful that people are attracted. So the beauty of the body is secondary. The beauty of the soul is primary. So just like a mūḍha, a illiterate man, nicely dressed*-he is beautiful so long he does not speak. And as soon as he speaks, we can understand what is his position. So dhavaca so vate mūḍha yavad kiñcid na vasa (?). A ugly, illiterate rascal, fool, is beautiful so long he does not speak, and as soon as he speaks we can understand what is his position. So this external beauty is no beauty. If an ugly man, if he speaks very nicely, he will attract so many people, and if a beautiful man, if he speaks nonsense, nobody cares for him. So real attraction is different and artificial is different.



Hayagrīva: I think that concludes Aristotle. (end)





PLOTINUS.HAY



Plotinus



*Hayagrīva: This is Plotinus. Plotinus lived from 204-269 A.D. He was not Christian. He took... He's what's called a neo*-Platonist, a new Platonist. Much of his philosophy comes from Plato. But he believed in the theory of emanation, that the soul emanates from the intelligence, what Aristotle called the nous, or the intelligence, and the intelligence emanates from the One, what he calls the One, who is omnipresent, transcendental, the cause of all multiplicities, the Lord of all. So there's a hierarchy in Plotinus of the One, the intelligence, and the individual souls.



*Prabhupāda: The One is Vedic conception, ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti, Supreme Truth, Absolute Truth, advaya*-jñāna. So this is our philosophy, that these living entities, soul, they are of the same quality as the one Supreme, but they are fragmental parts, emanation from Him. He has got the same intelligence, same mind, but limited jurisdiction. God is... That One is omnipresent, but we are not omnipresent, but we are present. Omniscient; but we are not omniscient, but we are (sic:) sentient, not that dull matter. In this way, that One has got all spiritual qualities in fullness; we have got spiritual qualities in minute quantity. That is our constitutional position. But we are like sparks, and the Supreme One is like big fire. When we leave the association of the big fire, as sparks we become extinguished, means our illumination stops. That is called māyā, māyā andhakāra, darkness. That we can revive also, again be put with the One and revive our illuminating power, spiritual power, and live with the Supreme One peacefully, eternal life of bliss.



Hayagrīva: Plotinus is an impersonalist. He believed that attributing attributes to God limit God.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: He believes that attributing qualities to God necessarily limit God, so he's an impersonalist.



Prabhupāda: Limit?



Hayagrīva: Limit. Any attribute or quality is by necessary limiting. This is a typical impersonalist stand.



Prabhupāda: If he is...



Hayagrīva: That the One, the One is transcendental, but there's no multiplicity in Him. That means im..., impersonal. Although He is the cause of all multiplicities, He is the cause of all living entities, He Himself...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, He is the cause of all living entities. That is Vedic conception. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief amongst the eternals, chief amongst the sentients, but unless He has got unlimited transcendental qualities, how He can be omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, all-powerful? That is not perfection. A perfect conception of the Supreme One: He is unlimited, we are limited. That is sense. How the Supreme One, who is the cause of everything, He can be limited? I do not know what do they mean by "limit." He cannot be limited by anything. Even the impersonal Brahman, that Brahman, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: everything is Brahman, unlimited. Why He should be limited? Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni: [Bg. 9.4] everything is emanation from Him and resting in Him. That is His impersonal conception. Everywhere He is there. And personal is localized, and..., but from the person, the impersonal effulgence come out. That we understand from the Bhagavad-gītā: brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. As the big sunshine comes from the localized sun globe*-the sun globe is situated in one place, but this, the rays of the sun is distributed all over the universe-similarly, impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth is that by His transcendental rays, prabhā, yasya prabhā prabhavata [Bs. 5.40], illumination. Just like the fire has got heat and light. It expands. So the impersonal feature of the Lord expands unlimitedly, and the Personality, it appears that He is limited, but He is unlimited by His energy. That is the perfect conception. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. By His impersonal feature He is all-pervading. By His localized aspect He is living everywhere, omnipresent, within the heart of all living entities, within the atom even. And by His personal feature He is worshiped by the devotee. Wherever the devotee is there, He is present personally. Tatra dṛṣṭami dhanataḥ yatra nayanti mad-bhaktaḥ (?). That is His omnipresent, although He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana. So nobody can calculate how many miles away that planet is, still, when a devotee like Prahlāda is in danger, He is immediately present there. That is the meaning of omnipresence. Not that because He is millions and trillions of miles away He cannot give protection to His devotee millions and trillions of miles away from His abode. That is the meaning of omnipresent.



Hayagrīva: Yes. He also believed that God is present in all objects yet remains distinct and transcendental to all created things.



*Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ: [Bg. 9.4] "Everything is resting in Me, but I am not present there."



*Hayagrīva: As for the individual souls, some are unembodied and some are embodied. He believes that some are celestial-they are heavenly*-and these souls do not suffer, and some, the ones on earth, suffer. In either case, they are all individuals.



*Prabhupāda: That's right. There are souls, innumerable souls. Anantāya kalpate. Nobody can count how many souls are there. So all the souls are as described above. They have got the same qualities of the One, in minute quantity, but some of them are fallen. Just like in the fire there are so many sparks, but one or two may fall down from the fire. Others remains in the fire. Those who are not falling down, they are called nitya*-mukta, everlastingly liberated. They are never conditioned. And those who have fallen within this material world for sense gratification, they are baddha. They are called nitya-baddha, eternally conditioned. And eternally means that nobody can estimate how long one conditioned soul within this material world is existing here, because the creation is going on perpetually-sometimes manifest, sometimes nonmanifest. But the conditioned soul without Kṛṣṇa consciousness is continuing to exist in this material world. Before the creation he was there in dormant condition. Again with the manifestation he comes out. This is going on. They are conditioned. And for their deliverance that One, Supreme Personality, comes, descends, sends His incarnation, sends His devotee to call him back to home, back to Godhead. That is also going on. Those who are fortunate, they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead, and those who are unfortunate do not take advantage of the instruction personally given by God, and later on His devotees are engaged to preach, they do not take care; they remain conditioned within this material world. And material world is created and annihilated, and he suffers this annihilation while in this body, while in this material world. But the intelligent living entity, if he is fortunate, he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and again he goes back to home, back to Godhead.



Hayagrīva: He believed that the soul is eternal and incorporeal in men, animals, and even in plants, and in this he differed from other philosophers of the time.



Prabhupāda: What... In which way differs? Because he accepts...



Hayagrīva: Accepted in..., the soul living in animals and also in plants.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fact. He is right. That is Vedic conclusion. Sarva*-yoniṣu, all different forms of life, there is soul, part and parcel of God. How some foolish person can think of animal has no soul? What is the reason? There is no very strong argument. The animals may be less intelligent. A child may be less intelligent than the father; *that does not mean there is no soul. This gross and doggish mentality, animal mentality, is killing the human civilization. Now they have degraded so much that they think that the embryo has no soul. In this way man is being put into darker and darkest region of ignorance. Everyone has soul. That is real. We get it from Kṛṣṇa: sarva*-yoniṣu. In different forms of life the soul is there, undoubtedly. That is real conception of soul. Evolution means he is evolving from one lower grade of body to another, higher grade of body, and in this way by evolution he comes to the human form of life. And in this human form of life he can understand the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā, that if he likes, he can surrender to the Supreme Lord and go back to home, back to Godhead, and if he does not, then he remains in this material world, undergoing the tribulations of the repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. Corporal body.



Hayagrīva: Plotinus saw the individual souls returning to God or the One through three stages. The first stage is that of asceticism, detaching oneself from the material world. The second stage, one detaches oneself from the process of reasoning itself. That would be mental speculation. And in the third stage the intellect transcends itself into the realm of the unknown, the realm of the One, and he speaks of this as an ecstasy, an involvement, or a transcendence of the ego. So these are the three stages of God realization that he sets down.



Prabhupāda: That means, what he called three stages, karmī, jñānī, yogi. That karmīs, they are trying to improve their condition by this material science and material advancement of education, and some of them are trying to go the heavenly planets by pious activities. These are karmīs. And higher than the karmīs are the jñānīs. They are speculating on the Absolute Truth by their education and coming to the conclusion that God is impersonal; *when we merge into that impersonal feature, that is our liberation. And the yogis, they are trying to get some mystic power by practicing mystic yoga system*-wonderful power, aṣṭa-siddhi, eight kinds of perfection: to become lighter than the lightest, to become smaller than the smallest, to become bigger than the biggest. Whatever they like, they can get. They can subdue anyone, bring under his control with that yogic (indistinct). But real yoga means to see the Supreme within the core of the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. In this way there are different processes. They are called karma, jñāna and yoga. But they require endeavor to elevate, strenuous endeavor, all these practices. But the, the supreme process is simply to surrender unto the Supreme One, and He gives out intelligence how to be free from this material entanglement, and that is called bhakti-yoga. It is very pleasing to execute, and without any, much endeavor. Simply being fully surrendered to the Supreme Lord, he immediately becomes purified from all material contamination, and little practice of bhakti-yoga makes him completely fit for going back to home, back to Godhead.



Hayagrīva: Concerning evil, Plotinus feels that matter is evil in the sense that it imprisons the soul, but the visible cosmos...



Prabhupāda: This is our conception. This Plotinus is all, all our, practically ninety percent our conception. This is the...



Hayagrīva: But the visible cosmos is beautiful, and the evil does not arise from the creator.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That the individual soul, being attracted by this illusory energy, he comes here for sense gratification. It is not by the desire of the Supreme One. By his personal desire. So God gives him freedom. So he begins the life from a very exalted position in this material world-sometimes like Brahma. But on account of material activities he becomes entangled, so much so that degradation from the exalted position like Lord Brahma, he comes to become a worm in the stool. Therefore we find so many species of life. The degradation and elevation is going on-sometimes elevated, sometimes degraded*-and in this way they will..., individual soul is suffering. That is his suffering, material miserable condition. When he comes to understand that "This kind of degradation and elevation going on perpetually, this is my suffering," then at that time he becomes fortunate. Then he seeks after the Supreme One, Kṛṣṇa, and by the grace of Kṛṣṇa he gets bona fide spiritual master. So by the mercy of both the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, he gets the chance of being engaged in devotional service, and little effort and sincerity makes him perfect, and he goes back to home back to Godhead.



*Hayagrīva: Although most of his philosophy is impersonal-his conception of God is mainly impersonal*-he writes, "Let us flee then to the beloved fatherland. Here is sound council. But what is this flight? How are we to gain the open sea? The fatherland for us is there whence we have come. There is the father." So he does some..., have some conception, it seems, of God as father.



Prabhupāda: He, he is confused because he is also speculating. So these things will remain confused, whether the Absolute Truth is person, imperson. Generally, without spiritual advancement nobody can understand about the Absolute Truth, and so he, that doubt continues. But when there is question of love between the Absolute and the relative, there must be the personal conception, and actually He is person, Kṛṣṇa. So by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, when he gets in touch with the devotee, his impersonal conception of the Absolute is removed, and then he worships the personal aspect of the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, and devotee. Then his life is successful.



Hayagrīva: Concerning the fall of the soul, Plotinus believes that the human soul never entirely leaves the spiritual realm.



Prabhupāda: Because he is constitutionally spiritual being, he is not any product of this material world. He is part and parcel of the Supreme One. But he is embodied by the material elements, and the material elements requires change. It becomes old. Just like our shoes, our dress, it becomes old. I can have one shirt and coat, but as soon as I change the body, the shirt and coat is no more fitting the body, so I have to change. So material life means to change. It is called jagat. Jagat means changing. But we are eternal, the same spirit soul. That this material life is not very happy, because it will change. Even if we are in the very comfortable condition of life or in miserable condition of life, it will change to better or lower grade of life. That is going on. So in order to save ourselves from the repetition of changing body, if we want to remain in our original, eternal, spiritual form, we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then we are relieved from this rotten business of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.



Hayagrīva: He says, "If the souls remain in the intelligible or spiritual realm with the Soul, or Supersoul, they are beyond harm and share in the soul's governance. They are like kings who live with the high King and govern with Him and like Him do not come down from the palace. But if they wish to be independent, if they are tired, you may say, of living with someone else..."



Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, excuse me. The sannyāsī...



Hayagrīva: So when the individual soul decides to withdraw, he becomes fragmented, isolated and weak, when he decides to withdraw from the, what he calls the palace of the King.



Prabhupāda: Withdraw, withdraw from the material world?



Hayagrīva: When he decides to withdraw from the spiritual realm, from the governance of the high King.



Prabhupāda: Spiritual wrong?



Hayagrīva: Spiritual realm, the spiritual kingdom.



*Prabhupāda: Kingdom. Yes. That is his falldown. When he decides to give up the spiritual life, he falls down in the material life, and that is the beginning of his material tribulations. And so long he will maintain a tinge of material happiness, the nature's life, that he has to accept, a type of material body, and there are varieties. So in all condition the spirit soul remains the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but according to the different body he gets different circumstances. A dog is thinking, on account of the dog's body, that he is a dog. A man is thinking that he is a man on account of the human body. The same thing-an American is thinking, because the body has been gotten from America, he is thinking "American." That similarly an Indian, a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, all these designations, due to the body. So when he understands that "I am not this body," this is spiritual education. That "I am different, I am part and parcel of God," then he becomes liberated, impersonally. And when he makes further advancement, and he comes to the platform of understanding the Supreme Truth as the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, and he engages himself in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is his actual life. Kṛṣṇa, in the spiritual world, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, in the Goloka Vṛndāvana planets, so they can be promoted to any one of them*-in the Vaikuṇṭha planets or Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. Then he is happy as associate of Kṛṣṇa. He can enjoy life eternally.



Hayagrīva: Plotinus conceives of the soul as having basically two parts: a lower part, directed toward the body, and a higher part, directed toward the spiritual.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, he is prone to fall down because he is very minute quantity, he is small, so there is tendency of falldown. The same example: the small spark of the fire, because it is very small, sometimes it falls down from the fire. So we become, being very small, minute particle of God, we become entangled by this material, external energy. Just like the example: a less intelligent person, in ignorance, commits criminal activities and he goes to jail. He is not supposed to go to the jail, but on account of his little intelligence or ignorance, he commits something which is criminal. This criminality is done by less intelligent class of men. Similarly, persons who are coming into this material world, they are less intelligent. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. They think that they will be able to enjoy life independently, without Kṛṣṇa. This is less intelligence. Just like a very rich man's son, if he thinks that "If I live independently, without being dependent on father," that is his foolishness. How he can become happy independently, living aside from the father? The supreme father is all-opulent, full of everything, and I am minute only. So if I live under the care of the father, naturally I will live very comfortably, like rich man's son. But if I prefer that I shall live independently, that is my foolishness. So only the fools and rascals they try to remain independent of Kṛṣṇa, and they suffer. That is the consequence. And those who are intelligent, even in the, this material life, by association of devotee and spiritual opportunities, when he comes to this understanding, that "I am son of Kṛṣṇa. He claims, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4], 'I am the father,' so I am the son of Kṛṣṇa, and why I am rotting in this way? Let me go back to my father," that is back to home, back to Godhead*-that is intelligence. But so long a living entity remains fools and rascal he suffers in this material world. And as soon as he is intelligent enough... That is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa ye bhaje sevā (indistinct): anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is the first-class intelligent man. Without being first-class intelligent man, nobody can come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this training, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, means those who are fortunate, they have come to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This movement is training them how to know perfectly well that he is..., he will be or he is always very, very happy in Kṛṣṇa, not without Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. When practically we see anyone who has given up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are not happy. I don't find anyone. That's fact. They are not happy. They are rotting in degradation. That is their misfortune, less intelligent.



Hayagrīva: He believes that the cosmic order awards and punishes everyone according to merit, according to one's merit. So this is a form of belief in karma also.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are discussing Ajāmila's, this Ajāmila is going to be punished. The Yamarāja is there, the officer is there. He has sent his men to arrest. So just like it is the father's duty if the son goes astray, in wrong way, the father is always affectionate. He tries to bring him back again home by, either by punishing or some way or some means. That is father's duty. So this is going on. Those who are in this material world, they are simply suffering on account of foolishness. So they are punished. This punishment means to correct him, to correct him to the proper position, and this is going on. So without being corrected, if one is intelligent enough, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa and revives his old constitutional position, and that is the platform of spiritual life of bliss and knowledge.



*Hayagrīva: He uses this following metaphor. He says, "We are like a chorus grouped about a conductor who allow their attention to be distracted by the audience. If, however, they"*-that is we, the individual souls-"were to turn toward their conductor, they would sing as they should and would really be with him. We are always around the One. If we were not, we would dissolve and cease to exist. Yet our gaze does not remain fixed upon the One. When we look at it, we then attain the end of our desires and find rest. Then it is that all discord passes. We dance an inspired dance around it. In this dance the soul looks upon the source of life, the source of the intelligence, the root of being, the cause of the good, the root of the soul. All these entities emanate from the One without any lessening, for it is not a material mass."



Prabhupāda: Yes. There is good sense, that God is individual and the soul is individual. As he has given the metaphor or analogy that the con..., parties of a concert party...



Devotee: Conductor and a chorus.



*Prabhupāda: ...they are singing in the tune, sometimes attention diverted by the audience, it becomes out of the tune. Similarly we, when we divert our attention to the illusory energy, then we fall down, and although we remain the same part and parcel of the Lord, but the influence of the material energy covers us, and we identify with the covering elements, and life after life bodies changing, and we are identify with the covering, and this is our miserable condition of material existence. And therefore first education is that "I am not this covering." That is spiritual education. That is the beginning of Bhagavad*-gītā instruction, that "You are not this body. Arjuna, you are not this body. Why you are taking this bodily concepts of life, your relatives, your family, so seriously? It is all foolishness. It is accidental. You are born in this family, and you have got so-called relatives. You are actually spirit. So now you are identifying with this bodily concept of life, you are member of the Kuru family. Then as soon as this change of body takes place, you will again enter into the dog's family or cat's family or demigod's family. Again you identify, 'I am dog,' 'I am cat,' 'I am demigod.' " So this is the, our ignorance. We have to stop this mentality of bodily concept of life, identify ourself as a spirit soul, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit, and act according to His direction. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. What Kṛṣṇa says, if we act, then gradually, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], we become immediately free from all upādhi, designation, and gradually develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to spread this knowledge all over the world.



*Hayagrīva: Plotinus accounts for the fall of the soul in this way. He says, "How is it that souls forget the divinity that begot them? This evil that has befallen them has its source in self*-will, in being born, in becoming different and desiring to be independent."



Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already explained, that...



Hayagrīva: "Once having tasted the pleasures of independence, they use their freedom to go any direction that leads away from their origin, and when they have gone a great distance, they even forget that they came from it."



Prabhupāda: That's a fact. More and more degraded. That I have already explained. He begins his life as Lord Brahmā and goes down as the worm in the stool. That is his degradation. And again, by nature's way, by evolution, he comes to the human form of life. That is a chance to understand that how he has fallen. And if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then from this life he goes again back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If he fully becomes trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... And everyone has to give up this body, so a devotee will give up this body, but he is not going to accept any more material body. Immediately transferred to the spiritual world. Mām eti: "He comes to Me." That is the advantage. They sometimes, foolish persons, say that "You are also going to die." Yes, you are going to die, I am also going to die, it's a fact, but a devotee's death means giving up this body and remain in his original, spiritual body. Sometimes it is said, jīvo vā maro vā. A devotee, either he is living or he is dead, his business is the same. And those on the lowest platform of material life, just like the butcher, that he is advised, mā jīva mā maro, "Don't live; *don't die." Because he is living very abominable life, daily cutting the throats of so many animals. Is that very nice life? So it is abominable, and as soon as he dies, he is going to suffer. So his position is, "Either you live or you die, his position is very, er, horrible." And a devotee, either he lives or dies, his business is the same*-to serve Kṛṣṇa. So jīvo vā maro vā. He is not different from Kṛṣṇa, so living or dead, it hasn't even no meaning for him. Therefore he is called liberated, jīvan-muktaḥ. Jīvan-muktaḥ means although he is in body, in this body, material body, he is liberated. Jīvan mukta sa ucyate. Īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā vacaḥ. That is Rūpa Goswami's definition. A person who is cent percent engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, karmaṇā, by action, by mind, karmaṇā manasā, by words, he is not to be considered that possessing any more a material body. Jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. He is already liberated, on the spiritual platform, although apparently he moves like material body. Jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. And in Bhagavad-gītā also it is confirmed, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, sa guṇān samatītyā: he is not under the condition of the modes of material nature. He is already in the Brahman platform, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26].



*Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice. Anyone who takes it seriously, he becomes immediately liberated, because liberation means to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is liberation. We are engaged in māyā's service. That is our bondage. But service we have to render. We are servant*-either māyā's servant or Kṛṣṇa's servant. Servant is our constitutional position. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Our real identity is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. So even if he is..., are in this material body, if you are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is liberation. Hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. When we give up our otherwise life... "Otherwise life" means to be engaged in māyā's service-as the head of the family, head of the community, head or member of this and... We have designated in so many ways. So that is our conditional life. And the same service, when we render to Kṛṣṇa cent percent, we are liberated. Sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. That is mukti. Mukti, they, by impersonalism, account of poor fund of knowledge, they think mukti means no more activity. Why no more activity? Because the soul is active, and the active soul is within the body; therefore we find these bodily activities. The body itself is not active; *the soul is active. So when he gives up this bodily concept of life, how his activities will be stopped? But this poor fund of knowledge, Māyāvāda, they cannot understand. The active principle is the soul. So, so long the active principle is within the body, the body is active, and the active principle gone, the body is lump of matter. So even one is liberated from this lump of matter, he must remain active. That is explained in the Bhakti-śāstra, that when he is no more in bodily concept of life, then he remains active, but activity hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When his senses are completely engaged in the service of Hṛṣīkeśa-Hṛṣīkeśa is another name of Kṛṣṇa*-that is called bhakti. Bhakti means the activities of liberated life. One may understand or not understand; if he is actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, under the direction of spiritual master, he is liberated. But if he voluntarily accepts again māyā's service, then he is become conditioned. This is the secret. Is that...?

Hayagrīva: That's the conclusion of Plotinus.



Prabhupāda: That's all. (end)





ORIGEN.HAY



Origen



Hayagrīva: This is Origen, who lived from 185-254 A.D., and he studied at Alexandria, Egypt, during the same time as Plotinus. In fact he knew Plotinus, but Origen was a Christian and is considered the founder of Christian philosophy. He believed that ultimate reality, which is spiritual, consists of the Supreme Infinite Person, God, as well as individual personalities. Ultimate reality is the interrelationships of persons with each other and with the Infinite Person, God. So he differed from Plotinus in the belief that God has personality.



Prabhupāda: Yes. God is personal. He is also believing personality. "Father," he says, Plotinus, but his ideas are not very clear. Did he not, Plotinus, say "the fatherland"?



Hayagrīva: He mentioned the father, but that...



Prabhupāda: The father is person. Anyway, we shall discuss this tomorrow.



Hayagrīva: The...



Prabhupāda: What is this philosopher?



Hayagrīva: Origen.



Prabhupāda: Origen. All right. We shall discuss tomorrow.



Hayagrīva: You want to discuss tomorrow? [break] I'm just touching the main points in these, but since we're not interested in comparative theology, I'm just touching the main philosophical differences in these early Christian theologian philosophers. Origen believed that the ultimate reality, which is spiritual, consists of the Supreme Infinite Person, God, as well as individual personalities. Ultimate reality is the interrelationships of persons with each other and with the Infinite Person, God. So here he differs from the Greeks, who were basically impersonal.



Prabhupāda: Our Vedic conception is almost the same, that the individual souls, or living entities, innumerable, and each one of them has an intimate relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the material condition of life the living entity has forgotten his relationship, and when, by the process of devotional service, he comes to his liberated position, at that time he revives his old relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*Hayagrīva: Origen ascribed to the doctrine of the Trinity. In the Trinity, God the father is Supreme, God the son, who's called the logos, L*-O-G-O-S, which is Greek for word, is subordinate to the father, and he brings the material world into existence.



Prabhupāda: Who?



Hayagrīva: The son. God the son brings the material world into existence. God the father is not the direct creator; it is the son who is the direct creator. The Ho... The third aspect of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit, and he is in turn subordinate to the, to the son. So these Holy Spirits, they liken unto the...



Prabhupāda: Holy Spirit, he is the son?



Hayagrīva: There's the father.



Prabhupāda: Father.



Hayagrīva: There's the son, who is the direct creator of the material, like Brahmā.



Prabhupāda: The son, the son.



*Hayagrīva: Like Brahmā, the perfect son. And then there's the Holy Spirit, that is all*-pervasive. And all three of these aspects are divine and co-eternal. They exist..., they've always existed within the Trinity of God. They've always existed simultaneously.



*Prabhupāda: So our conception is-"our" means Vedic conception-that Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everyone." Either you call the son or the Holy Ghost, it doesn't matter, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the origin. Then, He has got expansion. That expansion is not actually His son... Or there are two kinds of expansion: His personal expansions and His expansion as part and parcel. His personal expansion is called Viṣṇu-tattva, and the part and parcel expansion is called jīva-tattva-in Sanskrit technical words, svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. The personal expansion there are also many varieties-puruṣa-avatāra, saktyāveśa-avatāra, manvantara-avatāra, many varieties. So generally, His personal expansion for creation of this material world are three also, accepted as Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Viṣṇu is personal expansion, and Brahmā is expansion of the living entity, or the vibhinnāṁśa. And another expansion, via-media between the personal expansion and expansion of jīva, the via-media expansion is called Śiva. So the material creation is done by personal expansion primarily*-the whole material ingredients, and then with the ingredients the guṇa-avatāra, Brahmā, he creates particularly. And Lord Śiva, when the time is right, he annihilates. So this creation, material creation, is created, maintained for sometimes, and again dissolved or annihilated. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. This is the nature of the external potency. There are others, detailed information, described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, but the jīvas, or the living entities, they are considered as the sons, and they have got two positions: one liberated position, one conditioned position. Those who are liberated, they are personally associating with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and those who are fallen in this material world, they have, almost all of them, have forgotten, and suffering within this material world in different forms of material body. But they can be delivered from this material conditioned life to liberated position by Kṛṣṇa consciousness understanding, which means that there are śāstras, Vedic knowledge, and the guru which..., who is fully cognizant of Vedic knowledge and preaches and delivers the conditioned soul on behalf of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the Vedic conception.



Hayagrīva: Origen believed that it is through divine grace and man's free will working together that the individual soul attains perfection, and perfection consists of attaining a personal relationship with the Infinite Person.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called Bhakti*-mārga. The Absolute Truth is manifested in three features: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is the personal feature, and Paramātmā feature may be compared with the Holy Ghost when situated in everyone's heart. And Brahman feature, everywhere. By His energy He is present everywhere. So the perfection, highest perfection of spiritual life, is to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the person, personal feature of the Lord, and engages himself, the living entity engages himself in His service. Then he is situated in his original, constitutional position, and he is eternally happy and blissful.



Hayagrīva: Just as man's free will brought about his fall, man's free will can also bring about his salvation. By becoming detached from matter, man can return to God, but this detachment from matter is brought about by the assistance of the Christ.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our conception also, that the fallen soul is rotating within this material world, within this universe, up and down in different forms of life, and in his developed condition of understanding he is enlightened by God as it is instructed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, and the spiritual master gives him full enlightenment. Then what he says, the perfection?



Hayagrīva: His detachment from matter...



Prabhupāda: Yes. When he understands his pleasing, as situation with God, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate... [Bg. 9.59]. When he understands the transcendental pleasing situation of his life, he automatically gives up this material bodily attachment. That is his freedom. And when he actually, in his spiritual identity, engaged in the service of the Lord, that is his normal position. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of Origen. Origen believed that all the elements that are found in the material body are also found in the spiritual body, which he called the interior man. He says, "God created man not taking the dust of the earth like the second time, but He created him after the image of God," that is initially, "this being after the likeness of God was immaterial, superior to any corporeal hypothesis. There are thus two men in each one of us, as every exterior man has for homonym the interior man. So it is for all His members, and one can say that every member of the exterior man can be found under this name in the interior man." So that for every corresponding sense that we have in the exterior body, there's a corresponding sense in the interior or the spiritual body which exists within.



*Prabhupāda: The spirit soul is within this material body, but the spirit soul has no material body originally. There is a spiritual body of the spirit soul eternally existing, and the material body is simply coating of the spiritual body. This material body is considered as coating, shirt*-coat. It is cut according to the bodily shape. Just ordinarily we can see the tailor makes the shirt and coat according to the shape of the body. Similarly, these material elements, earth, water, fire, etc., mixed together, becomes like a clay, and it is coated over the spiritual body. The spiritual body has no connection with the material body. So because the spiritual body has got shape, the material body also takes a shape. That is understanding. But material body has nothing to do with the spiritual body. It is simply external coating, or it is a kind of contamination for suffering of the spirit soul. As soon as he is coated with this material contamination, he identifies himself with the coating and he forgets his real, spiritual body. That is called māyā, ignorance, and this ignorance continues so long he is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. When one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he understands that this material body is the external coating; *he is different from this material body. That condition, that uncontaminated understanding, is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. The spirit soul is Brahman. He was under the illusion of bodily concept of life-that is called jīva-bhūtaḥ*-and when he understands that he is not this body, he is the spirit soul within the body, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. So when one comes to this understanding of his spiritual identity, he becomes joyful, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54], he has no more any hankering or lamentation. In that position he sees all other living entities as spirit soul. He does not see the outward covering. Even in a dog he sees the spirit soul covered by the body of a dog, and similarly a learned brāhmaṇa, he also sees the spirit soul covered by the material body designated as learned brāhmaṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā this conception is summarized,



*vidyā*-vinaya-sampanne

brahmaṇe gavi hastini

*śuni caiva śva*-pāke ca

*paṇḍitāḥ sama*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 5.18]



*So up to the animal bodily concept of life, one is unable to understand his spiritual identity. But in the civilized form of life, when the society is divided into eight divisions, varṇa and āśrama*-four varṇas and four āśramas-brahman, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, four varṇas, brahmacārī, and gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsī... So a brāhmaṇa from the social status, when he becomes elevated to the position of a sannyāsī, that is the highest perfectional stage in this material world, and at that stage only he can realize his original constitutional position and he acts accordingly, and thus he becomes delivered, which is called mukti. Mukti means to understand his own constitutional position and act accordingly, and conditional life means to identify with the body and act accordingly. So in the mukti state the activities are different from the conditional state. Therefore the devotional service is the activity of the liberated stage. So anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he maintains his spiritual identity, and therefore he is called liberated even though in this conditional material body.



Hayagrīva: Origen believed that the interior man, or the spiritual body, also has spiritual senses which enable the soul to taste, see, touch and contemplate the things of God.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotional life.



Hayagrīva: During his lifetime Origen was a great teacher and was very much in demand. For him, preaching simply meant explaining the words of God and no more. He believed that first of all a preacher must be a man of prayer and must be in contact with God, and that he should pray for a better understanding of the scriptures.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real preacher. That is explained in the Vedic literature, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. First of all he becomes perfect by hearing. This is called śravaṇam. And when he is perfectly situated in spiritual life by hearing perfectly from the perfectly authorized person, then his next stage begins, kīrtanam. That is preaching. That śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, everyone is hearing in this material world. Everyone is hearing. Even this material educationist, he also hears from the material person, professor. That hearing is there. Then he acts when he is grown*-up, passed his examination, sometimes acts as professor. The same process: if one hears from the perfect spiritualized person, he becomes perfect, then he becomes actual preacher. Preaching, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, about Viṣṇu, not for any other person within this material world. The Supreme Person, transcendental Personality of Godhead, to hear about Him and to preach about Him, that is the duty of a liberated soul.



Hayagrīva: As far as seeming contradictions and seeming absurdities in scripture are concerned, Origen considered these as stumbling blocks allowed by God to exist in order for man to go beyond the literal meaning. He says, "In some cases no useful meaning attaches to the obvious interpretation, but everything in scripture has a spiritual meaning, but not all of it has a literal meaning."



Prabhupāda: Literal... Generally, every word in the scripture there is literal meaning, but one who cannot understand properly because one does not hear from the proper person, he makes some interpretation. But there is no need of interpretation in the words of God. It may be that the words of God sometimes cannot be understood by ordinary person; *therefore he requires to understand through the via*-media of transparent guru. Guru is fully cognizant of the words spoken by God. One has to accept, therefore, a guru to go through the scripture properly. Generally there is no ambiguity in the words of God, but due to our lack of perfect knowledge we sometimes cannot understand and try to interpret. But this is, this interpretation is not at all feasible, because imperfect person interpreting means whatever he interprets, that is imperfect. So the proper import of the words of scripture or words of God should be understood from a person who has realized God.



Hayagrīva: For Origen there are two rebirths. One is a baptism, which is something like an initiation, and then there is a complete purification, a rebirth in the spiritual world with Christ. So baptism is compared to a shadow of the ultimate rebirth, and when the soul is reborn with Christ, it receives a spiritual body like Christ and beholds Christ face to face.



Prabhupāda: Christ behold?



Hayagrīva: The individual soul can then see Christ face to face when he attains his spiritual body.



Prabhupāda: What is the position of Christ?



Hayagrīva: What is the position of Christ?



Prabhupāda: He, does he describe anything?



Hayagrīva: Well, not Origen. The position of Christ is that he is seated at the right hand of the father, that he is in the spiritual sky with the father.



Prabhupāda: No, here, when Christ was present, so so many persons saw him. So what is the position?



Hayagrīva: What was the position of those people? Well those who saw him were very special people, but they saw him in many different ways, just as they saw Kṛṣṇa in different ways when He was on this earth. Different people saw Him differently.



Prabhupāda: (aside:) This is, that, disturbing.



Hayagrīva: Hm? Is this clear?



Prabhupāda: No, I am talking to him. (pause) So different persons, so that is all right. According to the status of a person, he sees another person individually. That is all right. So Christ is in his full spiritual body, that is the idea?



Hayagrīva: That's the idea.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We also think like that.



Hayagrīva: He didn't believe that the individual soul existed from all eternity. It was created. The...



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: The rational natures that were made in the beginning did not always exist. They came into being when they were created.



Prabhupāda: That is not correct. The living entity is eternally existing, as God is eternally existing, the living entity who is the part and parcel of God. But the living entity, as we have several times..., being a small spark, sometimes the illumination is extinguished or stopped for the time being, but he is eternally existing, changing the body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], after the destruction of the body. The material life means the body is destructed, one body after another, but the living being is eternally existing, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20].



Hayagrīva: He uses this metaphor. He writes, "The human body has unity because its various members are all made for specific functions in it, and it is bounded by a single soul. In the same way, it seems to me, the whole immense, gigantic world should be regarded as one being kept alive by God's power and logos, as by a single soul."



Prabhupāda: But single soul is created, he says. But that single soul, his spiritual identity is never created. That is the difference between matter and spirit. Anything material, that is created. Spiritual is never created.



Hayagrīva: At the same time...



Prabhupāda: (aside:) You go and wash your face with water, running.



Hayagrīva: At the same time Origen differed from the later Church tradition in his belief in the transmigration of the soul. Although he believed that the soul was originally created, he believed that it transmigrated, and it transmigrated because the soul, the individual soul, could always refuse to give itself to God, although he believed that ultimately the time will come when everyone will return, and God's rule will be restored to its original integrity. This differed from later Christian tradition, which said that the choice one made in this one lifetime was decisive for all eternity. Origen doesn't believe this. He believes that you can be reincarnated at the end of this lifetime if you don't attain the ultimate goal. You'd be reincarnated in some other form.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our version of the *Vedas*. Unless he is liberated or goes to the kingdom of God, he is, repeats, transforms, or transmigrates from one material body to another, because material body is not eternal. You can enter one material body; the material body grows or it remains for sometime; then it becomes old, and then it is useless for any purpose; you have to give up this material body and enter again into a new material body. Then you continue or fulfill your desire in that body, again it becomes old, again you have to give up, and again you have to accept another new body. Because everything material deteriorates, and the soul, being eternal, it cannot remain in the deteriorated body to function materially; therefore transmigration of the soul is essential. As the example is given that when you have got a material shirt and coat, when it is old enough, it cannot be used, you have to throw it out and accept another new shirt and coat. The material conditional life is like that. That is called transmigration.



Hayagrīva: It's interesting that Origen did not reject transmigration, neither did Christ reject transmigration. It wasn't until later, until the next philosopher that we take up, Augustine, that the idea of...



Prabhupāda: Transmigration is...



Hayagrīva: Transmigration (indistinct).



*Prabhupāda: ...philosophical and, I mean, fact. The example is very nicely given in the Bhagavad-gītā, with dress. As a person cannot continue the same dress perpetually*-the dress becomes old, useless, and he has to change his dress-so the living being is eternal, but he has to accept a material body for material sense gratification. But the body cannot endure perpetually. Therefore it is very natural to understand that he has to change the body exactly like he has to change the dress.



Hayagrīva: So that's the conclusion of Origen. (end)





AUGUST.HAY



St. Augustine



Hayagrīva: This is St. Augustine, or Augustine. We'll call him Augustine. Augustine, like Origen, considered the soul to be immaterial, noncorporeal. He believed that the soul did not exist prior to the birth of the individual human being. It is only at death that the soul attains its immortal nature and lives on through eternity.



Prabhupāda: What is that? He sometimes says it is not eternal? What is the clear ending?



Hayagrīva: The soul did not exist previous to the birth of the individual human being.



Prabhupāda: Does not exist?



Hayagrīva: When the individual was created, the soul was created with him. Only after this initial creation is there immortality.



Prabhupāda: What does he mean? It is not very clear.



Hayagrīva: It is not clear.



Prabhupāda: He...



Hayagrīva: The soul is created, he is saying. That means it has...



Prabhupāda: If it's created, then how it is immortal?



Hayagrīva: It's immortal after it's created. It's created but it doesn't die.



Prabhupāda: Then what is this death?



Hayagrīva: The death is simply the death of the body.



Prabhupāda: Then if he accepts another body, then he has to accept transmigration.



*Hayagrīva: No, he doesn't. Now here's, here's the point. Augustine believed that God elected some men to everlasting happiness and others to everlasting suffering. With the fall of Adam, or the first man, man was subjected to death. For Augustine, however, death is of two types: physical death-the soul leaves the body-and soul death*-the death experienced by the soul when God abandons it. The damned face not only physical death but spiritual, soul death as well.



*Prabhupāda: So it may..., it can be taken figuratively, that when one forgets his position, that is a kind of death also. One forgets himself. But actually soul is eternal, and what Augustine says as spiritual death, that is his forgetfulness. Just like in unconsciousness one forgets his identity, but if he is dead then he cannot revive consciousness. Similarly, it is little difficult for the bodily concept of life persons, but there are many proofs and understanding that soul is eternal. He, of course, until he gets his freedom from this material existence, he is spiritually dead. Even though he is working in this material form, because he has forgotten his real identity, that is also a kind of death. Yā niśā sarva*-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. This śloka explains how one is dead and how one is alive. When one is forgetful of his spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, he is supposed to be dead, and when he, one is alive to the spiritual consciousness or God consciousness, he is alive. In this sense, it is a question of two stages, awakening stage and forgetful stage, but actually a soul is eternal. He never dies, even after the annihilation of this body.



Hayagrīva: But the forgetful stage is never everlasting or eternal, is it?



Prabhupāda: Yes, it is not. It can be, what is called, revived, his consciousness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like a man is sleeping, almost unconscious, but if you call him again and again, and the sound enters through the ear into the heart, he becomes awakened. Similarly, by this chanting process he revives his spiritual consciousness, then he is alive in his spiritual life.



Hayagrīva: So then... But Augustine would say that God would eternally abandon the damned soul, a soul damned to eternal perdition.



Prabhupāda: "Eternally abandon" means for very, very long years, millions of years, he remains forgetful. So...



Hayagrīva: Seemingly eternal.



*Prabhupāda: Ah. But actually he can be revived at any moment in good association, sādhu*-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83], by this method of hearing and chanting, śravaṇam. Therefore this devotional service, beginning with hearing, is very important. If he consciously hears from the self-realized soul, then he becomes awakened to his spiritual life, and keeping himself always in the devotional service, he remains spiritually alive.



Hayagrīva: (aside:) That's the end of that tape. Augustine speaks of two cities in his... He wrote a famous book called The City of God, and one city is divine. In one city, love of God unites all men, and the other city, men are united by love of the world. One society loves the flesh, and the other society loves the spirit.



*Prabhupāda: So this figurative description is there in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. The body is considered as like city, and the soul is described as the king of the city, and he goes out from different gates. The body has got nine gates. In this way a figurative description in the..., is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But that city is figuratively taken as this body, and the king of the city is the soul. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of Augustine. Augustine writes, "God is not the soul of all things but the maker of all souls." So this doctrine seems to admit of the transcendence of God but not of the eminence of God, at least not as the Paramātmā accompanying the individual soul.



Prabhupāda: He does not accept Paramātmā?



Hayagrīva: It doesn't seem to be. It seems that...



*Prabhupāda: Then how God is all*-pervading? The Paramātmā conception is there in the Brahma-saṁhitā:



*eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad*-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

*yac*-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara...

[Bs. 5.35]



*One part of His feature, eko 'py asau. Racayitum, creation, this creation is done by one plenary portion of His person, the puruṣa*-avatāra, the Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, in expanding. So, and not only one universe but millions of universes, jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also same thing is confirmed, atha vā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna, ekāṁśena, viṣṭabhya aham, sthito jagat: "By My one plenary portion I expand throughout all the universes, all the living entities. Even within atom I am present." So unless God has got that omnipresence potency everywhere, then how He can be omnipresent? This is one meaning. He is everywhere present by His expansion of His one plenary portion.



Hayagrīva: Augustine disagrees with Origen, who looked on the body as a prison. He says, "If the opinion of Origen and his followers where true, that matter was created, that souls might be enclosed in bodies as in penitentiaries for the punishment of sin, then the higher and lighter bodies should have been for those whose sins were slight, and the lower and heavier ones for those whose crimes were great." So...



*Prabhupāda: That is Vedic conception. The soul, he, as he is, he is part and parcel of God, but he is imprisoned in different types of body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I am the seed-giving father of all different forms of life, and the mother, material nature is the mother." That is actually very logical. Through the matter different varieties of living entities are coming out. From water, from earth, from air, even from fire, ether, everywhere, sarva-gataḥ, life, living entities are visible. Therefore the combination of five elements-earth, water, fire, air*-that is the body of the living entities. And the soul is the part and parcel of the Supreme, and the souls are impregnated within this material world by God, and they come out through the womb of the mother, nature or individual mother, whatever you say. The soul is coming out of matter but it is not matter. The living entities, part and parcel of God, assuming different types of body, either you say according to pious or impious activities, or according to his pious and impious desires. Vāsanāḥ. So the desire actually is the cause of higher and lower grades of body, but the soul is the same. Therefore those who are advanced in spiritual consciousness, they see the same soul in, in each and every body. Either in the body of a dog or in the body of a brāhmaṇa, the same soul is existing, but according to different desires and karma one gets a different types of body.



*Hayagrīva: Augustine believed that all men came from Adam, that is the first man or one man, and that this one man God created-this one man*-and this one man is the root of all mankind. He writes, "God knew how good it would be for this community often to recall that the human race had its roots in one man, precisely to show how pleasing it is to God that men, though many, should be one."



*Prabhupāda: They... It is, our Vedic conception is also like that, that the mankind has come from Manu. From Manu, human being, or manuṣya... The Sanskrit word is manuṣya, "coming from Manu." So Manu is also coming from Brahmā. In this way, as the conception of a first creature, Adam, similarly, a first living being is Lord Brahmā. Therefore our proposition is that a living being coming from the living being. Brahmā is living being, or Adam is living being. Then the living being does not come from matter. Brahmā is also coming from the Supreme Lord as raja*-guṇa avatāra, incarnation of raja-guṇa. So all living being, they are coming from the Supreme Living Being. So Brahmā is also the first creature within this universe.



Hayagrīva: Augustine... Just as Augustine saw that the soul is created into a particular body, he felt that this was a gift from God, and that this was not an...



Prabhupāda: Soul is coming from particular body?



Hayagrīva: That the soul is created at a particular time... We went though this yesterday, I believe.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Hayagrīva: The belief in the creation of the soul. The soul is created, and that the body is a gift. And he also rejects, on the basis of this, he rejects reincarnation. He writes, "Let these Platonists..." Because Plato believed in it, reincarnation. "Let these Platonists stop threatening us with reincarnation as a punishment for our souls. Reincarnation is ridiculous. There is no such thing as a return to this life for the punishment of souls. If our creation, even as mortals, is due to God..."



Prabhupāda: Punishment of the soul? What is that return?



Hayagrīva: He says, "There is no such thing as a return to this life for the punishment of souls." And the reason he gives, he says, "If our..."



Prabhupāda: Soul is life. What does it mean, "returning to the life"?



Hayagrīva: He believes there is no reincarnation as punishment. Reincarnation is envisioned as a kind of a punishment. To have to take birth again is a type of punishment, and Augustine rejects this, saying that how can the return to bodies, which are gifts of God, be punishment? He doesn't see how that this is a form of...



Prabhupāda: But does he think that the body of a hog and the body of similar lower creatures eating stool and living in filthy place, is it not punishment? Does he think like that? Why one gets the body of King Indra or Lord Brahmā and why one gets the body of a pig and hog, and living in filthy place and eating stool? Is it not punishment and reward?



Hayagrīva: Well, he would say that, um...



Prabhupāda: How he explains the body of a pig eating stool?



Hayagrīva: I've been putting this off. He wouldn't agree that man could be reincarnated as an animal.



Prabhupāda: Why, why he will not agree? If a body is a gift by God, then body can be a punishment also by God.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: This is reasonable. When he is punished, he gets the body of a pig. When he is rewarded, he gets the body of King Indra. So that is punishment and reward.



Hayagrīva: What about the body of a man? Is that punishment or gift?



*Prabhupāda: Man, man, there are many men who are very well situated and there are many men who are suffering. So two things are there according, suffering and enjoyment, according to the body. So this has been explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. According to the body the heat and, what is called, cold? Heat or cold?



Hayagrīva: Hm.



*Prabhupāda: Sītā uṣṇa. That is perceived. An old man perceives very much cold, and a young child, he does not perceive*-according to the body. An animal, naked body, he can walk on the street in severe cold, but a man cannot. So this body is the source of suffering and enjoying. So why not take it as punishment and reward?



Hayagrīva: Well, Augustine believes that each individual man, or each individual soul within man, is not necessarily condemned to earth due to his own personal desire or sin but due to the original sin of Adam, the first man. He writes, "When the first couple," that's Adam and Eve, "were punished by the judgment of God, the whole human race, which was to become Adam's posterity through the first woman, was present in the first man." So that was the origin of sin and death. So man's sin is not personal. The reason I'm in..., conditioned in this human body is not because I personally committed a mistake...



Prabhupāda: Your becoming conditioned is punishment. Why you should be conditioned?



Hayagrīva: For my..., as punishment for my own desire.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: For my personal desire.



Prabhupāda: Then why does he say there is not punishment?



Hayagrīva: But here he says it's because not for anything I did, but because of the original man, the sin of the original man, that everyone coming from the original man is...



Prabhupāda: Original man was punished. So the next man, he, why he comes to such father, unless he is punished? Sometimes father's disease is inherited by the son. Is it not punishment?



Hayagrīva: Yes. So the very coming into...



Prabhupāda: Body.



Hayagrīva: ...the race is a punishment in itself.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He says this on the one hand, and on the other hand he says it's a gift, not a punishment.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, gift you can take. If you take it that it is given by God, so it is gift. "God has given me this body for punishment. It is His mercy that undergoing punishment I am becoming purified, making progress towards God." The devotees, they think like that. Although it is punishment, they take it as reward, because by undergoing the punishment he is making progress towards God*-realization. In that sense it is a gift. Gift actually means something given by somebody. So when it is given by God for our correction, it can be taken as gift.



*Hayagrīva: Augustine believes that the physical body comes first, and then the spiritual. "What is so in a natural body arises a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. But it is not the spiritual which comes first, but the physical and then the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, earthy. The second man is from heaven, heavenly. But the body which, by the life*-giving spirit will become spiritual and immortal, will under no conditions be able to die." So that man must first come as a, as man, as a mortal, physical being first, in order to attain immortality.



*Prabhupāda: Why man? Every living entity has a mortal body. So to enter into the mortal body, that is a kind of punishment. And then there is evolutionary process from lower grade of body to higher grade of body. That is quite reasonable, that every living entity or soul is part and parcel of God, but on account of some sinful activities or disobedience to God, as they believe Adam on account of disobedience to God they lost Paradise and came to this material world, similarly, the soul belongs to the Paradise, or heaven, or Kṛṣṇa, but somehow or other he falls down within this material world, and he gets first a body like Adam. But again, on account of his further, low-grade activities, he goes down, sometimes as human being or sometimes as more than human being-the demigod*-and sometimes as animal, trees, plants. In this way he goes down, degradation, or goes up by elevation. But he is always aloof from the material body, but according to his desires and activity he gets different body. This is quite reasonable and confirmed by the Vedic literature. But his actual life is when he is freed from this material contamination, getting different bodies life after life.



Hayagrīva: Augustine conceived of peace in this way. He says, "Peace between a mortal man and his maker consists in ordered obedience guided by faith under God's eternal law. Peace between man and man consists in regulated fellowship. The peace of the heavenly city lies in a perfectly ordered and harmonious communion of those who find their joy in God and in one another in God." So that peace in its final sense is the calm that comes out of this order.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Peace means to come in contact perfectly with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is peace. When a man is in ignorance, he thinks that he is the enjoyer of this world, but when he comes in contact with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Supreme Controller, he understands that God is enjoyer; we are not enjoyer. We are servants to supply the needs of enjoyment of God. That is our life. Just like a servant supplies the needs of the master. The master has no need, but he enjoys the company of the servant, and the servant enjoys the company of the master, because our relationship is as master and servant. A servant getting a good, nice government job is very happy, and similarly the master is also happy getting a very faithful servant. This is the relationship. So when this relationship is disturbed, that is called existence in māyā, and when this relationship is restored, that is called spiritual life. So in the spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one understands that the Supreme Lord is the actual enjoyer; *we are servant. The Supreme Lord is the actual proprietor, and we are residents. And bhoktāraṁ yajña*-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. And Supreme Lord is the Supreme well-wisher, friend of everyone. When a living being understands these three features of God's transcendental quality, he becomes happy.



Hayagrīva: Augustine writes, "No man must be so committed to contemplation as in his contemplation to give no thought to his neighbor's needs, nor so absorbed in action as to dispense with the contemplation of God." So he felt that activity and meditation, neither should be exclusive, but they should complement one another. They should go together.



Prabhupāda: That means devotional activities.



Hayagrīva: There should be both activity and meditation, not just one exclusive.



Prabhupāda: Meditation, when you are active, the meditation is already there. Unless you think of God, how you can be active in the service of God? So meditation about whom? Meditation about the Supreme Personality of Godhead or the Supersoul within the core of heart, that is real meditation, and activities more important than meditation. If I simply sit down and think of God, that is very good, but if I factually work for God as God desires, that is more important than meditation. If you love me and simply think of me, that may be taken as meditation, but if you love me, if you carry out my orders, that is more important.



Hayagrīva: Augustine says...



Prabhupāda: You can call this (indistinct) here. Now.



Devotee: It's ten to, ten minutes to six.



Prabhupāda: So we shall finish up.



Hayagrīva: We will finish, we can finish Augustine.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



*Hayagrīva: He conceived of the spiritual world as a place where the bodies are very beautiful, are very happy, they move with, with grace. The... God is the source of every satisfaction and is the consummation of all desires. The people in the spiritual sky never cease praising God, never tire of praising Him. There is no envy, and bliss is all*-pervasive. Sin has no power of temptation.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. When he, we remain in contact with God, the sin cannot touch. That is the explanation given in the Bhagavad*-gītā: daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. According to our desires we are associating with the different qualities of material nature, and we are getting different types of body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya. Nature is the agent of Kṛṣṇa, God, so as we desire, Kṛṣṇa gives us the facility by giving us a body which is a machine. Just like father and the son. The son insists, "Father, give me a cycle." So the affectionate father gives him a cycle. And he says, "Father, give me a motorcar." So affectionate father gives him a motorcar. So this is the relationship between the father and the son. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that,



*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



The father, or Kṛṣṇa, is there within the core of heart of every living entity, and as he desires, the father supplies him a type of vehicle manufactured by the material nature. So this body is given by God because we desire it, but the body is manufactured by the material nature. This is very reasonable. So we are in different types of body means in different types of vehicle, sometimes as acting on the vehicle of a pig, and sometimes we are acting on the vehicle of a very important person or demigod. But we desire such thing, and God gives us such vehicle manufactured by the material nature.



Hayagrīva: This, this is the last point. It's actually very crucial. For Augustine, the mind, reason and soul are one and the same, and he writes...



Prabhupāda: Mind, reason?



Hayagrīva: Mind, reason and the soul are all wrapped up together.



Prabhupāda: Wrapped up. But there are different identities. Intelligence... Everyone has got mind, but the mind acts under intelligence. But the intelligence of different living entities are different. Similarly mind is also different. A dog's intelligence is not equal to the intelligence of the human being. A dog's mind is not equal to the human being's mind. So actually the soul, being put under different types of body using different types of intelligence, and different some mental, psychic action, thinking, feeling, willing. So according to the body, the mind and intelligence are different.



Hayagrīva: Well, this..., thinking in this way Augustine writes, he says, "We do not apply 'Thou shalt not kill' to plants, because they have no sensation, or to irrational animals that fly, swim, walk or creep, because they are linked to us by no association or common bond. By the creator's wise ordinance they are meant for our use, dead or alive. It only remains for us to apply the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' to man alone, oneself and others." So...



Prabhupāda: So that is imagination of Augustine. But Jesus Christ does not say such qualitative killing. He says frankly, "Thou shalt not kill." When he says that, he means, "You should not kill." But when there is absolute necessity, just like he says that "One life is food for the another life..." Does he not say it like that?



Hayagrīva: He says, uh... [break] He says..., this is, this is Augustine writing. He said, "Some people try to stretch the prohibition 'Thou shalt not kill' to cover beasts and cattle and make it unlawful to kill any such animal, but then why not include plants and anything rooted in and feeding on the soil? After all, things like this, though devoid of feeling, are said to have life and therefore can die and so be killed by violent treatment."



*Prabhupāda: No, that is not Vedic philosophy. Vedic philosophy admits that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is natural. That is stated in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam,



ahastāni sahastānām

*apadāni catuṣ*-padām

phalgūni tatra mahatāṁ

jīvo jīvasya jīvanam



*Those who have got hands, they eat the animals without hands, only four legs, and the four-legged animals eats the animals which cannot move*-that means plants and vegetables. Similarly, the weak is the food for the strong. In this way there is natural law that one living entity is food for another living entity. But our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, is not based on this platform, that plant life is not sensitive and animal life is more sensitive or human life is more sensitive. We take all of them as life, either human being or animal or plants or fish, it doesn't matter. That is inevitable. Either you eat animal or vegetable, you eat some living entity. That is inevitable. You cannot avoid. Now it it the question of selection. That, of course, is there. But apart from this vegetarian or nonvegetarian diet, we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Kṛṣṇa, whatever..., our philosophy is whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we take the remnants of His foodstuff. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "You give Me food, and prepared from patraṁ phalaṁ toyam, vegetation." So if by killing vegetable or plant there is any sin, that, that is Kṛṣṇa's. We simply eat after His eating. This is our philosophy. We are not after vegetarian diet or nonvegetarian diet. Whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we take the remnants of food.



Hayagrīva: So that's the conclusion of Augustine. (end)





AQUINAS.HAY



Thomas Aquinas



Hayagrīva: This is St. Thomas, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Aquinas, who lived from 1225-1274. He compiled the entire body of Church philosophy called Summa Theologe, and the philosophy of Thomas Aquinas is the official philosophy of the Roman Catholic Church. He, unlike Augustine, he did not distinguish so sharply between the material world and the spiritual world, or between secular society and the city of God. He felt that the entire creation, both material and spiritual, has its origin in the Personality of Godhead. He acknowledges at the same time that the spiritual world is superior to the material world.



Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Material world means temporary, and some philosophers, like the Māyāvādīs, they say it is false. But we Vaiṣṇavas, we don't say it is false, but it is temporary illusion. It is reflection of the spiritual world, but there is no reality. Sometimes it is compared with the mirage in the desert. There is no water in the desert, but sometimes, by reflection of the sun, it appears that there is water. Similarly, in the material world there is no happiness, but the transcendental bliss and happiness existing in the spiritual world is reflected here, and those who are less intelligent, they are after this illusory happiness, forgetting real happiness in the spiritual life.



Hayagrīva: Aquinas believed that truths, religious truths, are attained through both reason and revelation. He ascribed to Anselm's statement, "I believe in all that I may understand," and also to Abelard's, "I understand in order that I may believe," so that reason and revelation complement one another as a means to truth.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Truth, through reason, that is... Of course human reason is not perfect; *therefore revelation also wanted. So that truth arrived at by logic, philosophy and revelation, that is real truth. Our process is to arrive the truth through guru, spiritual master, and he is accepted as representative of the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, and he carries the message of truth because he has seen the Absolute Truth through disciplic succession. So if we accept the bona fide spiritual master (as) representative of God and please him by submissive service, then by his mercy and pleasure we can understand God, the spiritual world, by revelation. We offer, therefore, our great respect to the spiritual master and say, yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **. If you can please the spiritual master, who is carrying the message of the Lord without any speculation, then God becomes revealed. Another place it is said, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. When we engage our senses in the spirit of service to the Supreme Lord, then Lord becomes revealed. In another place it is said, teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. The Lord is there, but one who is engaged in loving service to the Lord, he gets direct connection with the Lord, and the instruction also, so that the devotee may be able to enter the spiritual world.



Hayagrīva: Aquinas believed that God is the only single essence that consists of pure form. He felt that matter is only a potential and, in order to be real, must assume a certain shape or form. "Being in the universe have to acquire an individual form in order to actualize themselves. When matter unites with form, the form gives an object its individuality and personality." A form gives an object its individuality and personality.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The mat..., matter has no form. The spirit soul has got form. Though the matter is covering the actual form of the spirit soul, the matter appears to have form. Just like the original cloth has no form, but when the tailor cuts the cloth according to the body of the person, then the shirt and coat takes a form. The matter itself has no form. When you take clay, it has no form, but if you make it like a doll, like a man or woman, then it has a form. When the change the clay, and you manufacture a fort, then the fort has form. So form and formlessness is of the matter, but in the spiritual world everything has got form. The spirit soul has got form. God has got form. This is the truth.



Hayagrīva: Aquinas believed that only God and the angels have form that is not material. There is no difference between God's form and His spiritual self.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. As in the material world any form-man or beast or anyone*-in the outward, external covering is matter, but within the matter there is the soul. The soul has form and God has form. That is real form. And the material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body.



Hayagrīva: Aquinas gives five arguments for God's existence. The first is that there must be a first cause, a first cause of everything. The second is similar in saying the material world cannot create itself but requires something external or spiritual to bring it into existence. And the third argument claims that because the world exists, there must be a creator capable of bringing it into existence. The fourth states that since there is relative perfection in the world, there must be absolute perfection underlying this relative perfection. And the fifth is the argument from design: because the creation has design and purpose there must be a designer and planner. So at this time they were very concerned with arguments for the existence of God, and Aquinas gave these five.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We also forward these kinds of arguments. Just like we say that there is the mother and the children. The mother is the material world, and there are so many forms of children. So when the mother is existing and the children are existing, then the father must exist. Without father, how there can be children? This is your strongest argument, that these foolish philosophers contemplate without God, or "God is dead," or so many godlessness in different way, but our philosophy is strong on the fact that there must be creator of this family, mother and sons. The father must be there. What are the other arguments?



*Hayagrīva: Well, the first cause, as in Brahma*-saṁhitā.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. Yes, that is also admitted by us, that everything has got cause, and when you reach to the ultimate cause, that is God.



Hayagrīva: Because we have an idea of perfection in the world, or we see relative perfection...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...there must be some absolute perfection.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That the spiritual world is the absolute perfection, and the reflection of the spiritual world is this temporary material world. So whatever perfection we find in this material world, that is derived from the spiritual world. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], the Vedānta*-sūtra, that whatever is generated, that is the param... Whatever is generated, it is from the Absolute Truth.



Hayagrīva: And the, I believe the statement that "Since in the material world we see that nothing can create itself..." It requires something different...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Brain.



Hayagrīva: ...to bring it into existence.



Prabhupāda: Brain, yes.



Hayagrīva: Not..., nonmaterial.



Prabhupāda: We don't find, even the biggest mountain cannot create anything, but when the spirit soul or the human being takes a stone, he can give a form to the stone. But the mountain, although it is very big, it cannot give any particular form to the stone. It remains stone.



Hayagrīva: Unlike Plato and Aristotle, Aquinas believed that God created the universe out of nothing and He...



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: He created the universe out of nothing.



Prabhupāda: No. The universe is created by God. How you can say "out of nothing"? God is there. So before creation of the universe God was there, so you cannot say that the universe was created out of nothing.



Hayagrīva: Well, but the material universe must have been created out of nothing, because it could not have arisen out of God's spiritual nature.



*Prabhupāda: No. The material nature is also inferior nature of God. That is described in the Bhagavad*-gītā: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. Apareyam, the material nature, means earth, water, fire, air, ether, and the subtle materials, mind, intelligence, ego. They are all emanation from God, so actually they are not unreal but inferior. They are, it is called, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. They are separated material energy. We can have a little idea, just like we are speaking in the microphone, and it is being recorded in the tape recorder. When the tape recorder is replayed, the sound coming from exactly like the original person's sound, but it is not in touch with the person, but it has come from the person. If somebody does not see wherefrom the sound is coming, he can conjecture that such and such person speaking, although such and such person is away from that speaking engagement. Similarly, this material world is emanation, is expansion, of energy of the Supreme Lord, but it is not that this material world has come into existence from nothing. No. It has come from the Supreme Truth, but it is inferior energy. The superior energy is the spiritual world, which is reality. This, this cannot be supported, that material world has come from nothing.



Hayagrīva: Was created out of nothing.



Prabhupāda: What?



Hayagrīva: Didn't say... It was created by God out of nothing. In other words...



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: ...the prakṛti had a beginning in time.



Prabhupāda: God has created from His energy.



Hayagrīva: But...



Prabhupāda: His energy, you cannot say nothing. Energy exhibited.



Hayagrīva: That energy is eternally existing with Him.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes.



Hayagrīva: So, that's different, that's a different viewpoint.



*Prabhupāda: Not viewpoint. Energy must be there. God, if He hasn't got energy, then how He is God? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport], He has got multi*-energies. So this is one of the energy exhibited. So you cannot say from nothing. God is everything.



Hayagrīva: (indistinct)



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: (indistinct) Again, like Augustine, Aquinas believed that sin and man go together due to Adam's, the first man's original sin. All men require salvation. Salvation can only be attained through God's grace. The individual living entity has to assent by his free will in order for God's grace to function.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is bhakti. Bhakti is devotional service. So you, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234], and bhakti is our eternal engagement. So salvation means when you are engaged in our eternal activities, that is called salvation, or liberation. When you are engaged in false activities, that is called māyā. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva*-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Muktiḥ means to remain in one's own constitutional position. In the material world we are also engaged in different types of activities, but they are with reference to the particular body. In the spiritual world spirit, as he is, is engaged in the service of the Lord. That is liberation.



Hayagrīva: Concerning law and government, Aquinas believed in the Divine Law, which consisted of the commandments of God given in the Bible. Aquinas felt that human laws also have some moral bearing, and that they also emanate indirectly from God, for he felt that all earthly powers exist by God's permission. Ideally, the Church is God's emissary on earth, and Aquinas considered it proper that the Church control earthly secular power as well. That is, he felt the secular rulers should remain subservient to the Church, and he felt that the Church could excommunicate, that means throw out, a monarch or ruler, in which case the ruler could no longer claim his throne. In other words, that the church has not only spiritual power but secular power on earth. Should have.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, because the world activities must be regulated to the ultimate goal, understanding of God. Human civilization is meant for understanding God. So although the Church or the brāhmaṇas may not directly handle administrative activities, but it must be done under their supervision, or under their instruction. That is Vedic system. The brāhmaṇa is the Church, and the kṣatriya, the administrator. So the administrator used to take instruction from the brāhmaṇas, or one who can deliver a spiritual message. This is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa, millions of years ago, He instructed the message of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god. Sun*-god is the origin of administrators, kṣatriya. So therefore the king, or the kṣatriya who administrators the business of the state, if he follows the instruction of veda through the brāhmaṇa or the Church, then he is called rājarṣi-king, and at the same time saintly person. Although he is king, he is following the instruction of saintly person or the Church. So in this way if the brāhmaṇas or the Church are in order, their instruction is in order, and the administrators, kṣatriya, they follow that instruction, he is in order. So the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. Vaiśya, if he follows the instruction of the kṣatriya, he is in order, and śūdras, they have no intelligence; therefore they follow the instruction of the three superior orders. This is the division of the society.



Hayagrīva: Aquinas considered sins to be both venial, that is petty, and mortal. The venial sin can be pardoned, but the mortal sin cannot be pardoned. Consequently, the mortal sin stains the soul. Is there anything like this?



Prabhupāda: Yes. The mortal, mortal sin, mortal sin?



Hayagrīva: Mortal sin. A mortal sin would be a breaking of one of the direct commandments of God given in the Bible, such as "Thou shall not kill."



Prabhupāda: So anyway, we also have similar passage, that kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. This is mortal sins, when the living entity disobeys the order of God, he is put into this material world, and that is his punishment. And he either rectifies himself by good association or he continues this transmigration one body after another and suffers this tribulations of material existence.



Hayagrīva: But in any case, how can a sin, any sin, stain the soul if the soul cannot be stained in any way?



Prabhupāda: He is not stained, but as spirit soul, but he can be put into sinful activity. Just like the water and the oil, if you put the oil on the water, it does not mix with the water, it remains as separate from the water, but he is carried away, this. The oil floating on the water is carried away by the water. So that means as soon as we put in material contact then, on account of our contact, we are practically under the clutches of the water, or material world. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. As soon as the living entity puts himself in the material world, he loses his own power. He is completely under the clutches of the water. This is the exact similarity. The oil never mixes with the water, but as soon as the oil is in touch with the water, it is being carried away by the waves of the water. [break]



Hayagrīva: Continuation of Aquinas. Aquinas felt that the monastic vows of poverty, celibacy and obedience gave one a direct path to God but that they are not meant for the masses of men. He conceived of life as a pilgrimage through the world of the senses, through the world of nature, and to the spiritual world of God's grace. These, when a..., when one enters a monastery he takes a vow of poverty, chastity and obedience, these three vows.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. It is called tapasya. According to Vedic instruction one must take to the path of tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily self*-denial, sense gratification denial. That is tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya, our austerity begins with brahmacarya, celibacy, no sex life. That is the beginning of tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena vā, controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Then tyāgena, renouncement or giving in charity, whatever you have got, for the service of the Lord, tyāgena; satya-śaucābhyām, by following the path of truthfulness and remaining cleansed; *yamena niyamena vā, by practice of mystic yoga. In this way one makes advancement towards spiritual kingdom or spiritual world. But all these can be totally performed simply by engaging oneself in devotional service. That is also stated: kecit kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva*-parāyaṇāḥ [SB 6.1.15]. If one becomes devotee of Lord Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, then simply by executing devotional service he attains the result of austerity, celibacy, and mystic yoga practice, and the result of charity, truthfulness, cleanliness-everything attains simultaneously, without separate effort. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading devotional service. By one stroke, the candidate can attain the results of all other processes.



Hayagrīva: This is a point where Catholic doctrine seems to differ. Aquinas did not believe in a soul per say, or pure soul per say, as divorced from a particular form. God did not simply create a soul. He created an angelic soul, or the soul of a demigod, a human soul, an animal soul, a plant soul, etc. He believed that simply to create a pure soul, a being, would be almost the same as creating God Himself.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: So again we see the Christian conception that God created the soul out of nothing.



*Prabhupāda: No. The soul is created and... Actually not created. Soul is existing along with God, just like the sparks of fire is existing with the fire. But the difference between the two fire is that the sparks may be separated from the big fire, and when it is separated, is loses its illumination. Similarly, an individual soul is already there. The master is there and the servants are there, eternally. Just like the body is there, the parts of the body are also there. We cannot say that the parts of the body is separately created. As soon as the body is there, the fingers of the body are there, the other limbs and parts of the body are all there. The soul is never created or never dead. It is explained in the Bhāgavata, na jāyate vā mriyate vā. Soul has neither creation nor death. It appears, because the soul has accepted this material body, with the end of this material body it appears that somebody is dead. But he is not dead. He simply transfers from this body to another body, and when he is liberated, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. Then in his original, spiritual body he goes back to home, back to Godhead. So actually the soul is never created. It is always existing with God, and this is nice that if it is accepted the soul is created, then God is also Supreme Soul*-the question may be raised that He is also created. So that is not the fact. God is eternal, and His part and parcels are also eternal. The only difference is that God never accepts this material body, but the individual soul, being small particle, it may be sometimes he succumbs by the material energy.



Hayagrīva: So..., but the soul is eternally existing with God in some form?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Well that..., well then maybe this is saying the same thing. "By its nature the form of the soul is the form of the body. It is that form incorruptible."



*Prabhupāda: No. The form..., material body is imitation, is false. Real body is the spiritual body. Because the spiritual body has form, the coating of the spiritual body by matter takes a form, as I have already explained, that the shirt and coat originally has no form, but when the shirt and coat is cut by the tailor according the form of the man, it takes a form. So actually this material form is illusion. It is not form. It, it takes the form, and when it is old enough, no more use, it again comes to the original position, earth. "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." This form is made by the material nature. It is just like a machine. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. The soul has its own form, but he is given a machine, a particular machine, which is this body, and therefore he enjoys by wandering throughout the whole universe in different conditions of life.



Hayagrīva: I think the problem with all of these is that they cannot conceive of spiritual form. When they speak of form they are thinking that there must necessarily be matter involved. Aquinas believed that the Augustinian and Platonic doctrines of the complete independence of the soul from matter or the material body denied man's substantial unity. That is, man is body and soul. He is a particular type of soul in a particular type of body.



Prabhupāda: It..., it is the same argument, that when you are dressed it appears that you are not different from the dress. The coat is moving, the pants is moving, but actually it is completely different from the person who is putting on the coat and shirt.



Hayagrīva: So in other words they, he, he actually had no idea of spiritual form as such.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.



Hayagrīva: He considered that matter was necessary to give the soul form.



Prabhupāda: No. He has got his original form.



Hayagrīva: Original form?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Which is the form of the body.



Prabhupāda: Original form, that is the form of the spirit.



Hayagrīva: Of the spirit.



Prabhupāda: Yes. And the form of the body takes place on account of the form of the spirit. This is very nice example. The cloth has no form, but when it is cut according to the form of the gentleman, it takes a form. Similarly, matter has no form. When it is coated on the spiritual form of the soul, it takes the form. This is very easy to understand.



Hayagrīva: To get on to another point, Aquinas believed, or rather he opposed sex for any purpose other than the begetting of children, and not only should sex be used only for the begetting of children, but that when one begets children one takes the responsibility of giving them a spiritual education.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Vedic injunction, that don't beget children unless you can give the children relief from the cycle of birth and death. One should not become father and mother. That is responsible father and mother. And without this responsibility, if a man gives birth to a child and if a woman bears the pregnancy, that is prohibited. One should not become a father, one should not become a mother unless they are competent to give freedom to the children from the cycle of birth and death.



Hayagrīva: His argument, well, he says, "Marriage is natural to man, and an irregular connection outside of marriage is contrary to the good of man; therefore fornication must be sinful."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: But he goes on to argue, "The inordinate emission of semen is repugnant to the good of nature, which is the conservation of the species. Hence, after the sin of murder, whereby human nature already in actual existence is destroyed, this sort of sin seems to hold a second place whereby the generation of human nature is precluded." Well how, people today would ask, how could the argument of the generation or the, the conservation of the species still hold, since there's so many human beings, since there are almost four billion human beings on this earth, how could this argument still hold that, uh...?



Prabhupāda: That, what is that argument?



Hayagrīva: That sex is only to beget children, for propagation of the species, and any other use is...



Prabhupāda: Sinful.



Hayagrīva: ...sinful.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we recommend in our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness: no illicit sex. Illicit sex means not producing..., not for producing children but for enjoyment. That is sinful. And...



Hayagrīva: Well the conservation, what he calls the conservation of the species, that doesn't enter into it.



Prabhupāda: No. The soul is already explained, that it has nothing to do with the body, but he has to accept a certain type of body on account of his association with certain type of modes of nature.



Hayagrīva: So this is actually a faulty argument to say that, that illicit sex is sinful because it threatens the conservation of the species.



Prabhupāda: Illicit sex is sinful. Illicit sex is sinful, because it is not meant for begetting child; it is for sense gratification. Sense gratification in any form is sinful.



Hayagrīva: He believed, like Plato, in an enlightened monarch ruling, but in certain cases Aquinas believed that it was not necessary for men to obey...



Hari-śauri: (aside:) It wasn't very much, just, uh... I can... Shall I cut another one?



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: ...that it was not necessary for man to obey human laws if these laws were opposed to human welfare and were...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...instruments of violence.



*Prabhupāda: This is very good. First of all they must know what is the welfare of the human being. Unfortunately, with advancement of so*-called material education, the human society is missing the aim of life. The aim of life is declared openly in the Vedānta philosophy, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the aim of human life. In the Bhāgavata it is said, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. The life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. That is the aim of human life. The whole Vedic civilization is based on this principle. But on account of deviating from the original Vedic civilization, they have dedicated the human form of life in so many unnecessary scientific discoveries, that discovery, which will not give him any relief to the human society. The real tribulation of life is birth, death and disease and old age. So the so-called advancement of material civilization has not solved the real problem of life, and the aim of human life is to solve the real problem of human life. The real problem of life, that we are eternal, as eternal as God, but we are subjected to birth and death. So with the poor fund of knowledge in the Kali-yuga, people being very bad, or slow for self-realization, and they create their own way of life, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10], and they are unfortunate and, and disturbed. Disturbance is always there, but they are not mindful about the real disturbances of life. Now, on the whole in this age, practically the human being has become like animal. The animal, although always in disturbed condition, cannot understand the aim of life, what is his position. So this type of civilization is very, very dangerous to the human society, that they have no aim of life.



Hayagrīva: So he concludes we must obey God rather than men, in terms of laws.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We can obey such man who obeys the laws of God. Otherwise they..., it is useless to obey an imperfect person. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. To obey the imperfect person means just like a blind man following other blind man. So what benefit he will get? If one blind man is begging help from others, "Please help me in crossing the road," if another blind man comes and he says, "Yes, come on with me," so what will be the result? Both will be crushed by accident. So any, any person who does not follow the instruction of the Supreme Controller, he is a blind person. He cannot lead. As we are concerned, we therefore don't accept the so*-called scientist's or philosopher's belief. They say, "We believe," "Perhaps it may be like this." These are all doubtful declaration. There is no truth in it. If there is any truth, that is also doubtful. Why should we risk our life by following such blind man who is thinking, who is believing, but he has no clear knowledge? Therefore we have decided to take lesson from the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, who knows everything perfectly well. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. He knows past, present and future, and what is our benefit, welfare, everything. So we should follow Kṛṣṇa instead of so-called blind philosophers.



Hayagrīva: Aquinas writes on beauty and contrasts the absolute beauty of God, which is beautiful in all times and all places, absolute beauty. He contrasts this with the relative beauty that we find in the world, and he says, "He is beautiful in Himself and not in relation to some limited terminus," that is God. "Hence, it is clear that the being of all things is derived from the Divine beauty. By God's own beauty He wishes to multiply it as far as possible; that is to say, by the communication of His likeness. Indeed, all things are made in order to imitate Divine beauty in some fashion."



Prabhupāda: Yes. God is the reservoir of all knowledge, all beauty, all strength, all renunciation, all riches. He is the reservoir of everything; therefore He is God. So beauty, whatever we see beautiful, that is emanation from, a very minute percentage of God's beauty. (aside:) Who paid this?



Hari-śauri: Someone gave it this morning.



Hayagrīva: Concerning theology and philosophy, Aquinas writes, "Just as sacred doctrine is based on the light of faith, so is philosophy founded on the natural light of reason. Hence it is impossible for items that belong to philosophy to be contrary to those that pertain to faith, but the former may be defective." That is, philosophy may be defective in comparison with, with the latter, theology, which is based on faith. "If any point among the statements of the philosophers is found contrary to faith, this is not philosophy but rather an abuse of philosophy resulting from a defect in reasoning."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That we say, that every man is defective on account of his material condition of life. So philosophy coming from such defect persons cannot be any good for the human society. Philosophy coming from a person who is in contact with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is perfect. That will benefit human society. And the speculative philosopher, who has no definite idea, simply basing on his belief or imagination, by following such philosophy nobody will be benefited; rather, he will be deviated from the actual philosophy of life.



Hayagrīva: So he concludes that Divine revelation is absolutely necessary, because by the philosophical method very few men could arrive at the truth, and only after a long time and many errors.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. The so-called philosophers, they are imperfect, so there is no need of consulting them. Our path is that you directly contact the Supreme Person in knowledge, who has got complete knowledge-Kṛṣṇa*-and we take His instructions and try to follow Him.



Hayagrīva: This knowledge based on revelation or scripture is called sacred doctrine or scripture. He says it, this scripture, "does not provide information about God and about creatures in equal fashion, but about God principally and about creatures as they are related to God as to a source or to an end. Hence the unity of the science is not ended." So scripture for him is the science of God.



Prabhupāda: This is science of God.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: God is explaining Himself... [break]



Hayagrīva: This is a continuation of Thomas Aquinas. We've been discussing sacred doctrine, which is the same as scripture. He states that the only author of sacred scripture is God Himself, within whose power is not only to adjust words to their meaning, which even man can do, but also to adjust things themselves. In reading the scripture, one should avoid two mistakes. 1) One should not think that they can be false in any way.



Prabhupāda: False?



Hayagrīva: That there's no falsity.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: Falsity cannot form the basis of Divine scripture, which has been handed down by the Holy Spirit. That's one mistake one can make in reading scripture. Another, he says, "No one should try to restrict scripture to one meaning to such an extent that other meanings containing some truth and quite possible in relation to the context would be excluded. In fact it belongs to the dignity of Divine scripture to contain many meanings in one text, so that in this way it may be appropriate to the various understandings of men."



Prabhupāda: Meaning is one, but interpreter are different. Just like even in the Bible it is said, "God created the universe." So that is a fact, God created. So unless you interpret in a different way, how you can say that the universe is created by some chunk and this way and that way? So we accept scripture in that sense, without any change; *therefore we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā as it is. We cannot change the words of God. That is our principle. And interpretation with motive, there are so many interpreter, and that has spoiled the God consciousness of the human society.



Hayagrīva: Well this is rather strange, because Aquinas, his writings form the doctrine of the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church has always emphasized one meaning, which is interpreted by the Pope, by the head of the Church. The meaning is given by the Pope, of scripture, because...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...



Hayagrīva: But here he says that the scriptures may contain many meanings according to one's degree of realization.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Not many meaning. Meaning is one, but if one is not realized, then he can make many meanings. Otherwise meaning is one. What can be any other meaning? Suppose God created this universe. This is stated in the Bible, or in the Bhagavad*-gītā the same thing is expressed in a different way, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "From Me everything emanates." So that's a fact, that everything is coming out from God's energy, so why there should be second meaning and second interpretation unless one is godless? What is the possible second meaning?



Hayagrīva: That means...



Prabhupāda: God created, that's all accepted. God created. What the second meaning?



Hayagrīva: Well, he would give the example of the creation of God walking through... In the Bible it's stated that God walks through Paradise in the afternoon. He would cite this...



Prabhupāda: No, no, God...



Hayagrīva: ...as having an interior meaning.



Prabhupāda: If God can create, He can walk also, He can speak also, He can touch also, He can see also. God is a person. So where is the second meaning? What is the possible second meaning?



Hayagrīva: The second meaning, as far as I could see, would be based on an impersonal interpretation.



Prabhupāda: So God cannot be impersonal. If He is creator, how He can be impersonal? He must be person; otherwise there is no meaning. [break] (end)





HOBBES.HAY



Thomas Hobbes



Hayagrīva: His most famous work, Thomas Hobbes, yes, is called Leviathan, and the word Leviathan...



Prabhupāda: Leviathan?



Hayagrīva: Leviathan. It initially referred to a sea monster who was defeated by Yahweh in the Judaic scriptures, and the word can refer to anything large or formidable, like a great sea monster, Leviathan. So Hobbes used the word Leviathan to refer to a ruling body or monarch in a state, and he called this Leviathan a mortal God who is under the immortal God. And this Leviathan or king or monarch would rule the government above the law. Now you discussed this with Śyāmasundara, but Śyāmasundara didn't point out that Hobbes felt that the Leviathan, or ruler, need not obey the law. Now according to the Vedic conception, is the king or the monarch above the law?



*Prabhupāda: No. The king is also under the law. King, as we understand from Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa instructed the law to Sun-god, and he followed the laws. Therefore he is, to the common man, he is the supreme. The king is supposed to be representative of God in the state. So "above the law" means because king is perfect by abiding the laws of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot be subjected to any subordinate laws. But his perfection is there only when he follows Kṛṣṇa's order. Therefore monarchy, the law, king's order, is final. There cannot be any... Just like king's mercy. Even one is condemned to death, but if the king's mercy is there that he should be excused, he should be free, nobody can check. So why it is? Because king is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. He first of all said the laws, the Bhagavad-gītā, which is so important for the human civilization millions of years, at least forty millions of years it was spoken to the sun-god, and sun*-god gave it to his son Manu, Manu, and his son Ikṣvāku inherited from Manu. This way the absolute law is coming by disciplic succession. And formerly India was governed by monarchy. They received the law of God by disciplic succession. They executed. Therefore whatever he decides, that is final. He cannot be subjected to any other law. So the king, if he is following the laws given by God, then he is above all laws, material convention.



Hayagrīva: Hobbes compares man to a machine ultimately made by God, but he does not see this machine as controlled directly by God but by the Leviathan, by the, by the king, the ruler.



*Prabhupāda: No. God is situated in everyone's heart, and He is seeing every minute action of the soul*-what he is desiring, how he is manipulating the machine. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Specifically it is indicated that God is situated in the heart of the living being and He is observing what he desires. So according to his desire, God is so kind He is supplying a machine. If he wants to enjoy this material world as a human being, God gives him opportunity to become a human being, and if he wants to enjoy this material world as a dog, He gives him the body of a dog. If he wants to enjoy as a hog, He gives the body of a hog. If he wants to enjoy as demigod, He gives him the body. So this is God's mercy. So long the individual living being wants to enjoy this material world, so according to his eagerness to enjoy in that way, He gives the facility, and that facility is the particular body. This body is material. It is supplied by the material nature, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. The machine is made by the material ingredients, upon the order of Kṛṣṇa, or God, for the enjoyment of the living entity. So he sits in that machine and travels. Just like we have got a car, we can travel, similarly we get particular machine and we travel in some species of life in some planet. There are innumerable planets, and 8,000,000 species of life. So according to the contact with material nature, the living entity is desiring something, and God is so merciful that He is giving him facility. But actually, because God is friend, when he is prepared to understand from God how he will be happy, He says that "You give up all this nonsense plan. You just surrender unto Me." Then he is perfect. Otherwise if he desires, God will supply him unlimited number of machine for going here and there, up and down, within this universe. There are two process: either you go up or come down, and the down means lower species of life; up means higher species of life. Just like demigods, Brahmā, his one day's life calculation is impossible to do. So there are different places of life, millions of years' living and a few moment living. So everything opportunity is given by God because He is supreme controller. We desire: Man proposes, God disposes. This is God's position. But so long he will go on proposing this and that, he will never be happy. When he agrees to the plan of God, then he will be happy.



Hayagrīva: Hobbes says that warfare is perpetual and that the struggle for existence goes on and on, and therefore the Leviathan is necessary. This... He believes in the divine right of kings, that the Leviathan is like God's representative, God's lieutenant, and he has his sovereignty under God.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If...



Hayagrīva: Like a Vedic monarch or a...



*Prabhupāda: That is perfection of monarchy. God... The king is called nṛpa*-deva, nara-deva. Although he is in human form of body, he is God.



Hayagrīva: He also said that this could be not only an individual but a group of individuals.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Group of individuals can remain, provided they are all devotees. But if the group of individuals, if they are all rogues and rascals, they cannot be representative of God. But either singular or plural, if all of them or single actually representative of God abiding by the laws... Laws means actual, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. For God said that is actual religion or law. And if we manufacture in our own ways, without reference to the God's program, it will be useless and failure.



Hayagrīva: He says, "Some men have pretended for their disobedience to their sovereign a new covenant or a new agreement with God, made not with men but with God. This also is unjust, for there is no covenant or agreement with God but by mediation of somebody that represents God's person, which none does but God's lieutenant, who has this sovereignty under God." Could a monarch use this argument, which is the argument of divine right, in order to discourage his subjects' rebelling under the pretense that they are communing directly with God? What guidelines are there to assure against this? There was... Wasn't there one king, King Vena, King...?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Vena. So everything depends on the king's accepting the absolute instruction of God. So king, in Vedic civilization, the king was absolutely following the regulation given by God, and it was confirmed by saintly persons, sages. Then it was executed; *not whimsically. There was advisory board of the monarchy always. They were not politician, diplomat, but they were all saintly person, knew very well the Vedas, and they used to guide the monarch. Therefore the monarch is absolute governing body. The ministers were helping, but the king was educated by God's direct instruction, as Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. Vivasvān, the sun-god, there are tradition two kṣatriya family-one from the sun*-god and one from the moon-god. Sūrya-vaṁśa and candra-vaṁśa. The kṣatriyas in India, they claim. And that is a fact, because we see that Sūrya, sun-god, is the original kṣatriya. From him came Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. This is the age of Vaivasvata Manu, and from him came his son, Ikṣvāku. So by the paramparā system, if we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction... Kṛṣṇa's instruction is already there. If the governments all over the world take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then every government will be perfect and there will be no disturbance of peace and happiness. That will be perfect world. Kṛṣṇa has given instruction in all fields of activities. Simply we have to take it practically. But the people are so foolish that instead of taking the standard way of living, they are manufacturing on account of their demonic tendency. They, the head of the state, they are degraded, either individually or collectively, so how there can be good government? If they become perfect according to the instruction of God, then everything will be perfect.



Hayagrīva: And Hobbes, finally, gives the, this definition of God: "A most pure, simple, invisible spirit corporeal."



Prabhupāda: Corporeal?



Hayagrīva: Spirit corporeal.



Prabhupāda: Well why invisible?



Hayagrīva: Invisible.



Prabhupāda: Why? Invisible...



Hayagrīva: Invisible...



Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa says, Kṛṣṇa came, He was visible, and Arjuna was talking with Him face to face. So why is unvisible? If He likes, that is His..., that depends on His good will. He becomes visible to a competent or perfect person. He is visible. Just like Arjuna was talking with God, not only visible, was talking face to face. He was asking question, and Kṛṣṇa was answering. So one has to become qualified like Arjuna to..., then he will see Kṛṣṇa, or God, and he will talk with Him, he will get direct instruction. There is no difficulty. So He is not visible to the imperfect person, but He is visible to the perfect person. But He is not at all invisible.



Hayagrīva: Well, that's all on Hobbes. (end)





DESCARTES.HAY



Rene Descartes



Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of the notations on Descartes.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: Descartes, Rene Descartes, the French... Descartes writes, "The power of forming a good judgment and of distinguishing the true from the false, which is, properly speaking, what is called good sense or reason, is by nature equal in all men. God has given to each of us some light with which to distinguish truth from error." Now in the West this has been called conscience, and Descartes uses the term "reason." Now is this simply a form of mental speculation, or is the...



Prabhupāda: No. Mental speculation should be there. It is not actually speculation but it is reasoning. Just like if we study our own body, whether I am this lump of matter, namely this skin, bone and stool, urine and muscle and blood... If we analyze this body we find practically these things. So the reasoning is that whether combination of these things can give life. So externally we have got all these things. Blood we can get from slaughterhouse, and bone we can collect, or you can manufacture and set up an instrument with these things. Will it be, bring life? So the reasoning is life is different from this lump of matter. That is reasoning. Why...



Hayagrīva: But he...



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: He says reason is by nature equal in all men. Now isn't reasoning power different in different men?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why it is called "This man is intelligent," other man is called "You are ass." So when, on this reasoning platform, when one comes to the conclusion that the living force within the body is different from this lump of matter, then he is on the human platform. And if he keeps himself that this life means combination of these material things, then he remains an animal. This is the reasoning. Where is the life? You analyze beginning from the breathing up to the urine and stool*-where you will find life? That is human reasoning. Human civilization is now advanced in analyzing things in the chemical laboratory. So if we analyze this breathing, it is air. So you replace this air, let life come again. What is this breathing? Breathing is simply exhaling and inhaling some air. So by machine, by electric, what is called, batteries, let it work and it will act accordingly, breathing. But does it mean it will bring life? So they say breathing is stopped; therefore life is stopped. So breathing can be revived, but where is the life? They say the blood has become white. So blood can be colored. So anything of this body, analyze perfectly and bring life; then you say that life is combination of this matter. You cannot bring it; *therefore it must be concluded that life is different from this combination of matter. This is reasoning. This is human reasoning. And if you still keep yourself that this body is, it is everything, then you are animal. This is reasoning. That is the verdict of the Vedic..., sa eva go*-kharaḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. If one is thinking still that he is this body, he is no better than animal. There is no reasoning. Who can challenge this? Analyze every part of the body. Where is life? Hm? What do you think? Is that reasoning or not?



Hayagrīva: Yes. Now the reason is one thing, but intellection is another there.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: Intellection and reason you would call the same?



Prabhupāda: Intellect?



Hayagrīva: Intellection and reason and the Supersoul speaking from within?



Prabhupāda: The Supersoul, soul...



Hayagrīva: That's something different.



*Prabhupāda: ...that we shall consider later. First of all come to the reasoning, that this combination of air, water and bone and muscle and urine and stool is not life. You first of all come to that, then we have to find out that what is that soul. First of all you come to this conclusion. "This is not," neti. "This is not." Then what is the positive thing, that we have to search, athāto. That is brahma*-jijñāsā. What is that Brahman? It is not matter. Then we will come to the conclusion that Brahman is the origin of this matter, because the matter is developing on the soul. That is also reasoning. Simply sex does not create pregnancy unless there is soul. They have so many times sex, so not every time there is pregnancy. Of course, it is expected, but... Anyway, when the soul is injected in the womb of the woman, then the pregnancy means the matter develops, and that we can see outside the pregnancy also-when the child comes out it develops a body. And if this child comes out dead, there is no development. Therefore the soul is the basic principle of material development. That means a seed of a tree, so you sow it, and if the soul takes shelter of the seed, then it grows to a plant; otherwise does not grow. The same seed, if you fry it and sow it, then it will not, because unsuitable for the soul to remain in that seed. So athāto brahma jijñāsā janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1].



*So the matter is coming out on the positive existence of the soul. This is to be learned. Without soul being present within the womb of the woman there is no pregnancy, there is no development of the matter. We can see the same thing, that the child is developing or changing the body because the soul is there. This is reasoning. Where is the difficulty? So the philosophy, first of all find out what is that external thing which is the living force. By analyzing this material body we don't find any symptom of life either from breathing or from blood or from (indistinct). Therefore something extra. Now you find out what is that extra. That extra you will find out if you come to the right platform*-that it is soul, jīvātmā. And on the basis of jīvātmā, that is very minute. If you take authority of the Vedic śās..., very, very minute, one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair, a very small particle that we cannot find it where it is in the body. It is very small. So with your material eyes and material instruments it can not be found. We are missing. But this thing is there, we get information from the śāstra. Therefore the life is going on, it is so powerful. Just like the sun is ninety-three million miles away, but it is keeping the whole universe illuminated. Similarly, although the soul is very, very small particle, it is keeping this body alive, fresh. So by material analysis you cannot find out, because it is so small you cannot see that. But it is to be accepted that because that small particle is there, this body has developed. So the conclusion is that matter comes on account of soul, not that combination of matter produces soul. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. First of all the inquiry, "What is that living force?" Then the conclusion is next, that on account of this living force this material body has come. Therefore the conclusion should be that God is the supreme living force on which the cosmic manifestation has developed. That is our theory, that Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is there, then the universe comes into existence, and Brahmā is born and he creates so many.

Hayagrīva: And this reason... He says, "I fall into error because the power which God has given me of distinguishing the true from the false is not in me an infinite power." So by reason we can never...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...be certain...



Prabhupāda: Yes, infinite. I am, I am finite. I, as soul or as Brahman, am finite Brahman, and therefore there must be one infinite Brahman. That infinite Brahman is God, and finite Brahman is jīva, living entity. Therefore in the Vedic literature the God is accepted as the chief living being. Just like we have got in our family the father is supposedly chief man in the family, and sons and daughters, they are subordinate. These are common understanding. Similarly, God is the origin of all living entities and we are subordinate living entity, just like the father and the sons, and that is accepted by any religious sect, that God is the supreme father and we are son. That is accepted everywhere. And as the sons, children, they exist by the mercy of the father, similarly, our existence is continuing on account of mercy of the supreme father. This is reasoning.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "These perfections which I am attributing to God, which are infinite, immutable, independent, all*-knowing, all-powerful..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "...these perfections are in some fashion potentially in me...,"



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "...although they do not show themselves."



*Prabhupāda: But they are finite. They are finite, very small particle. That I have already explained many times, that the creative force is in me. I can create also. Now in the modern scientific knowledge, so I have created a big plane floating in the air, but I cannot create another planet with so many mountains and vast water, oceans, and trees. That I cannot do. That is done by God. This planet is also floating in the air and the tiny 747 plane is also floating in the air. So that is created by me, infinite, ah, finite. I have no other more power. Even if I float a city like plane, still I am finite. But God has created this planet or many other planets with so many things*-mountains, seas and forests and cities and so many. That is the difference between... The creative power is there. Because I am part and parcel of God, I have got that creative power. So I have got also little knowledge. I know my knowledge within my atmosphere, but God knows everything. That is explained, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], abhijñaḥ, itarataś ca. Abhijñaḥ, abhijñaḥ means He knows everything. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, vedāhaṁ sarvam, "I know everything." That is the difference. When Arjuna questioned Kṛṣṇa that "How it is that You remember millions of years ago, You taught Bhagavad-gītā?" And that Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, that is the difference between you and Me. I remember; you forgot." So therefore in all cases God is also living being, I am also living being, but I am very, very small, finite, and He is infinite. He is also living being. [break]



Hayagrīva: Continuing Descartes, he writes, "It is not an imperfection in God that He has given me the freedom of assenting or not assenting to things of which He has not placed a clear and distinct knowledge in my understanding. On the other hand, unquestionably it is an imperfection in me that I do not use this freedom right, yet..." So but one may then ask, Why doesn't God give us the understanding whereby we can choose properly in all cases?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Why can't we have free will and at the same time...



Prabhupāda: Free will means...



Hayagrīva: ...infallible judgment?



Prabhupāda: Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will.



Hayagrīva: A man may know better but still act wrongly.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: But that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing*-he will be punished, he knows; *he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison*-everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will.



Hayagrīva: In a sense he says that when one knows God he knows everything else, because...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows God and follows the instruction of God then he is right, and as soon as he goes against the instruction of God, then he is wrong. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: "Now I have given you all instruction. It is up to you to accept or reject." Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63]. That is free will. So now it depends on me whether I shall act according to the instruction of God or I shall act according to my whims, according to my sensual inclinations.



Hayagrīva: He says, "I see that the certainty in truth of all knowledge depends on knowledge of the true God, and that before I knew Him I could have no perfect knowledge of any other thing, and now that I know Him I have a means of acquiring a perfect knowledge of innumerable things, not only in respect of God Himself and other intelligible things, but also in respect of that corporeal nature which is the object of pure mathematics." Now he says he knows God but at the same time he seems to be deceived in matters, certain matters that we haven't come to yet, but, uh...



*Prabhupāda: No. If he has actually followed God's instruction and if he has actually knowledge of what is God, then he will never be misled. Either he selects a false God or he has not met God, real God. Then he is... But to save this danger there is God's instruction, Bhagavad*-gītā. Anyone who will follow, he will be perfect.



Hayagrīva: Concerning the soul, Descartes concludes that...



Prabhupāda: Now in this connection, regarding the soul, if he has received the knowledge of soul from God, therefore at that time there is no chance of he is thinking. If, as soon as he thinks in his own way, then there may be mistakes, because he is imperfect, finite. But when Kṛṣṇa says directly that "Within this body the soul is there," so if we accept God's instruction, then immediately we understand that the soul is different from this body. Exactly just like if somebody inquires, "Where is Prabhupāda?" If somebody says that "He is in this room," it does not mean this room is Prabhupāda; Prabhupāda is within this room. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that this, the owner of the body, the soul, is within this body. So immediately the false impression that "I am this body," the fool's conclusion, immediately it is eradicated. The light is there, but he will not accept. He wants to continue to live as a fool and speculate and waste time and con..., give conclusion in so many ways, so many rascal jugglery, "The living force is like this, like that, like that." But Kṛṣṇa gives instruction immediately that the living force, soul, is within this body; he is not this body. And He gives complete instruction on this at... He says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "This soul is never killed even the body is killed." This is knowledge. In spite of this knowledge, if somebody sticks to his foolish theories, then he remains animal.



Hayagrīva: There was a lot of conjecture at this time on where the soul is located, and he writes, "It is likewise necessary to know that although the soul is joined to the whole body, there is yet in there a certain part in which it exercises its functions more particularly than in all the others, and that it is usually believed that this part is the brain or possibly the heart."



Prabhupāda: The heart.



Hayagrīva: "The brain because it is within..., because it is with that the organ of sense are connected, and the heart because it is apparently in it that we experience the passions." We... He thought that the soul was in the pineal gland at the base of the brain, because we think with the brain, but that he wasn't certain. He thought, "Well, our passions are in the heart, so maybe it's in the heart."



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: "Maybe it's in the brain."



*Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to accept God's instruction. He definitely gives the information, īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Īśvaraḥ means the controller. So the soul is the controller of this body. So He is within the heart; *it is already there. Īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. There are two kinds of īśvaraḥ, controller. One is the ordinary controller, that means the individual living being, and the other is the supreme living being. We get from Vedic information both of them sitting together on this body tree. So both cases, the Supersoul and the individual soul, they are living within the heart. That is the right conclusion.



Hayagrīva: But at the same time the soul pervades the entire body.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That portion which is spread all over the body, that is immortal. So this is the illumination or the shining of the soul. That the sun is situated localized in a particular place, that we can see everyday, but his illumination is distributed all over the universe. Similarly, although the soul is situated within the heart, his illumination is spread all over the body. So that is consciousness. So as soon as the soul is out from the heart, which is known as heart failure, when he leaves the heart, then what is the use of this heart? It becomes a lump of matter. Immediately consciousness is absent from the whole body. So it is upon the leaving of the soul this body there is no more consciousness. This is reasoning. Why a second before there was consciousness and after there is no consciousness? If you chopped up the body there will be no protest, there will be no feeling of pain, that "What is that?" This is reasoning, that something is missing. That soul has gone out; therefore the consciousness in the body is absent. That soul is immortal; *the consciousness is also immortal. Now the consciousness, by the influence of illusory energy, is engaged in so many material things*-consciousness of society, consciousness of nationality, consciousness of this, that, so many. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating movement, how the consciousness can be purified to remain only Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then his life is successful.



Hayagrīva: All right...



Prabhupāda: What?



Hayagrīva: Here we go. In a letter, Descartes wrote, "I know that brutes," that is animals, "do many things better than we do, and I am not surprised at this, for that also goes to prove that they act by course of nature. If they could think as we do..."



Prabhupāda: No. Not force of nature. By force of God.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: In the heart of the brute also there is God.



Hayagrīva: "If they could think as we do, they would have an immortal soul as well as we, which is not likely because there is no reason for believing it of some animals without believing it of all, and there are many of them too imperfect to make it possible to believe it of them, such as oysters, sponges, etc." Is thinking a necessary function of the soul? He says, well for instance an oyster. How does he know whether or not an oyster thinks?



Prabhupāda: God is there giving him. God is, gives us instruction that we will advance, human being. We refuse, but they do not refuse.



Hayagrīva: You've said that anything that grows has a soul. The grass has a soul, has soul.



Prabhupāda: Yes. In dormant state.



Hayagrīva: Dormant.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Just as child has soul, but it is not yet..., the body has not yet developed. According to the body, according to the circumstances, the soul acts.



Hayagrīva: But he equates the mind and the higher mental processes with the soul.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: And, uh...



Prabhupāda: Mind is an instrument through which the soul acts. Mind is rejecting and accepting by the dictation of the soul.



Hayagrīva: He looked on animals as machines that react, and the basis for this view is..., he called it radiosenation, or language, because they do not have language...



Prabhupāda: They have got language.



Hayagrīva: They react as machines.



Prabhupāda: They have got language. You do not understand it.



Hayagrīva: It's been proved scientifically...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...that they actually... Dolphins, we, we have been able to even speak to dolphins, to communicate verbally. That also...



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was speaking with everyone. With the birds He was speaking. One old gopī went to the Yamunā to take bath, and when she saw that Kṛṣṇa was speaking with the bird, then she, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa can speak with the birds." She became surprised. So because Kṛṣṇa is God, He can understand everyone's language. That is God.



Hayagrīva: Oh, even during his day Descartes was attacked on this...



Prabhupāda: That, that, that qualification is described in the, our Science of Devotion. What is that?



Hari-śauri: Nectar of Devotion.



Prabhupāda: *Nectar of Devotion*. Vāvadūka. This qualification is called vāvadūka. He can understand everyone's language. Just like a human being, if he understands many languages he is called linguist. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's another title is Vāvadūka. That means he understands everyone's language, even the birds, beasts. That is vāvadūka.



Hayagrīva: So that's the end of Descartes. (end)





PASCAL.HAY



Blaise Pascal



*Hayagrīva: This is a section, a continuation of Pascal, Blaise Pascal. P*-A-S-C-A-L. Pascal saw man situated in the universe between two extremes-between the abyss of infinity and the abyss of nothingness. Man has a body like the animals and an intellect like the angels or demigods. As such, he is neither a demigod nor an animal but somewhere between the two. Due to this situation, man is intelligent enough to know that he is in a miserable situation. Nonetheless, he has a great desire to be happy and to rid himself of his misery. Pascal saw that all men complain and suffer regardless of the situation. According to him, man engages in all kinds of hobbies and games and diversions in order to divert himself from his misery. But ultimately nothing really helps. What man once possessed and now has lost is perfect happiness. Pascal believes that the emptiness felt by man can only be filled by God. Isn't..., is this the same as...



*Prabhupāda: Bhagavad*-gītā.



*Hayagrīva: Bhagavad*-gītā (laughs).



*Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva [Bg. 16.20]. Because he does not get under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, so life after life he is trying to be happy and he is becoming baffled. He is manufacturing new way of sporting*-sometimes diving in the water, sometimes flying in the air. So this sporting, as soon as, according to his desire, God is supplying, "All right, you want to fly, you become a bird. You want to dive in the water, all right, you become a fish, big fish." So God is giving you and trying to see whether giving up all this nonsense plan he comes to God and surrenders unto Him: "Sir, I have, I have tried all my plan; I could not become happy. Now, my Lord, you say that 'You give up all this nonsense business, you surrender unto Me, I will make you happy.' " Then he becomes happy. For this message, God comes. Because this rascal will not do according to the desire of God; *therefore God comes personally and teaches him*-as Lord Rāmacandra, as Lord Kṛṣṇa, as Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and He, They, He gives the same instruction, that "You surrender unto Me and act according to My instruction; you will be happy." But he will not do that.



Hayagrīva: Whereas Descartes stressed reason, Pascal says that the principles that are understood by the heart are absolutely certain and that they are certainly adequate to overcome all skepticism or doubt in God. Is this something like the Supersoul speaking in the heart? Or how can one be certain that it is the Supersoul?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, he is speaking. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te: "I give him intelligence by which he can always live with Me," upayānti. He is living along with... Every living entity is living with God. But out of his ignorance, he does not know. So what for the other bird is there? What He is doing? And He is living as witness. He is friend, that "What this nonsense is doing? He will suffer." So He is finding out the opportunity how he will take instruction from the other bird, God. And He gives instruction. But to whom? When he surrenders, and he is engaged in this service, then He gives him instruction. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi [Bg. 10.10]. He gives. God is giving intelligence to everyone, but the nondevotee, he is not surrendered; he will not accept. The same example, when the thief goes to steal, God gives him that "Don't do this. You will suffer," and he knows that, that God says, He is speaking that "Don't do this," but still he does. So he suffers. But if he can purify and acts according to the instruction of God, then he is perfect. That is the difference between demon and devotee. Devotee strictly follows the order of God; he is happy. And demon, he also knows what is God's desire; he disobeys, he acts according to his whim, he suffers. So God is giving instruction. There is no doubt about it. Externally He is giving instructions through His agent, spiritual master, through books; and internally as consciousness, conscience. He is giving, always, but the rascal will not accept. Then he must suffer. What can be done?



Hayagrīva: Pascal believed in the doctrine of original sin. That doctrine holds that at one time man fell from grace by committing some sin or other, and that fall from grace accounts for his present position between the demigods and the beasts. In other words, that original sin accounts for man's engagement, or encagement, in matter.



Prabhupāda: Yes, this is our...



Hayagrīva: What was this original sin?



*Prabhupāda: To disobey the order of Kṛṣṇa, or not to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like some servant, he tries that "Why I am serving this master? Why not become a master." The, sometimes psychologically it comes. A man is working in the office, he is seeing the managing director is sitting and is taking all the money, and sometimes the worker... Just like a capitalist and the worker. Why it is Communist movement? That they are thinking that "We are working, and the capitalist is taking the money." So they revolt, they make strike, and they form a society that "We have the..., we must have this money." That is communism. So similarly, when the living entity*-he is eternally part and parcel of God; *to serve God, that is his real position*-but when he thinks that "Why I shall serve God? I shall enjoy myself," that is the beginning of falldown. So what is your question? When the... This was your question, that "When the sinful life begins?"



Hayagrīva: Oh, what was, what was this original sin?



Prabhupāda: This is the original sin. When he thought of not to serve God but to become God, that is the original. Just like the Māyāvādīs, they have knowledge, they have philosophy, everything, but still trying to become God, which is impossible. Then there is no meaning of God. If simply by meditation and by some material efforts one can become God, then where is the use of God? You cannot become God. But artificially you can try to become God, and that artificial way of becoming God is the beginning of sinful life.



Hayagrīva: He believed that it is impossible..., it is impossible for man to understand the universe or his position in the universe. In the material world we cannot look for certainty or stability because our reasoning powers, our reason, is always being deceived. Consequently, man must surrender to the dictates of his heart and to God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our position. We, we are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that you act according to the instruction given by Kṛṣṇa. We are not depending on heart, because a heart, the dictation is coming, but it is not appreciated by the demons, nondevotee. Therefore direct, direct instruction is the Bhagavad*-gītā, and it is explained by His devotee. So in this way, if we take right from God and His representative. Not that (indistinct). So therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching or preaching God consciousness so that people may take instruction of this Bhagavad-gītā as it is and act accordingly and be happy. That is our program. We do not manufacture any ideas. The ideas are already there. Simply we are preaching. If one is intelligent, fortunate, he will take it and be happy.



*Hayagrīva: Of all things in the world, Pascal considered this to be the strangest. He says, "A man spends many days and nights in rage and despair over the loss of his job or for some imaginary insult to his honor, yet he does not consider with anxiety and emotion that he will lose everything by death. It is a monstrous thing to see in the same heart and at the same time this sensibility to trifles and this strange insensibility to the greatest objects*-death. It is an incomprehensible enchantment and a supernatural slumber, which indicates as its cause an all-powerful force," such as māyā.



*Prabhupāda: This is, this is instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā, that one who does not believe in God or disobeys the orders of God, a day will come when God will come as death, and his all power, all false prestige, all imagination, all plans will be all broken. Then after that, according to the transmigration of the soul, that person, because he did not obey the orders of God, he acted like animals, he gets the body of an animal. This is transmigration. And he suffers.



Hayagrīva: He also writes, "If we submit everything to reason, our religion will have no mysterious and supernatural element. If we offend the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. Because religion means the orders given by God. So if we faithfully carry out the orders of God, then that is religion. But if we don't carry out the orders of God, this is cheating religion. That is not religion. That is condemned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That cheating religion are kicked out from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So any religious system which has no conception of God and does everything, every year changes by resolution of the priests, that "Now this is all right," against religious principles*-that is a farce. That is not religion.



Hayagrīva: This is by way of saying that we should not accept our faith blindly, but at the same time we should not expect everything to be comprehensible to our understanding.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That just like the father and the child. The father says, "You do this." So that is all*-comprehensive. The father's idea is complete; *it is good for the son. But the son says, "No. I want to act in this way." That is his folly. Similarly, what God says, that is religion, and... So there is no question of blind following. If you know, "Here is God. He is all*-perfect, and whatever He is saying, that is all-perfect. Let me accept it," then you are gainer. And if apply your reasoning and change it according to your whims, then you suffer.



Hayagrīva: He also writes, "The greatness of man is great in that he knows himself to be miserable. A tree does not know itself to be miserable. These miseries prove man's greatness. They are the miseries of a great lord, a deposed king."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The..., that is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that you are trying to live long, so does the tree not live longer than you? If you are trying by scientific method how to live more than hundred years or (indistinct), but the tree is living for ten thousands of years. Does it mean this is perfection of life, to live long? That is not perfection of life. So in this way, analyze all other living condition. When you come to God consciousness, that living condition is perfect, because by God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness you understand God-how to behave with Him; *what is your relationship with God*-then you become perfect and you go to the kingdom of God and live there eternally.



Hayagrīva: Descartes was more in the jñānī tradition, and Pascal more in the bhakti tradition. He says, "Employ the rule of love not of intellect," and for Pascal, knowledge can only be attained by curbing the passions, submitting to God, and accepting the revelation of God. And he was also Christian. And he said "There is no happiness apart from religion."



Prabhupāda: Yes. We say the same thing, that without religion one is animal. Because the animal society there is no church, there is no religion, there is no discussion about God. So if the human society, as they are doing now, that they are denying discussion about God even in the schools and colleges, so it is the most degraded form of society, and the consequence is there: they are all suffering.



Hayagrīva: Although he was considered a great philosopher, he concluded that philosophy in itself only leads to skepticism, that faith is needed, and he always added here, "God."



Prabhupāda: Philosophy means, real philosophy means to understand the truth. That is philosophy. So without understanding about the truth, if he encourages untruth... Just like some philosophers are philosophizing on sex life. So the people are becoming degraded. So what is philosophy in sex life, that is an (indistinct). It is there in animal and man also. So sex life is not actual life; it is a symptom of life only. So if we stress on this point only, that is not philosophy. Philosophy means, as it is stated, tattva jñānārthaṁ darśanam. To find out the Absolute Truth, tattva, that is philosophy. And tattva means the spirit soul or the spiritual atmosphere. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So those who are discussing about Brahman or Paramātmā, Supersoul, or Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are real philosopher because they are trying to find out the Absolute Truth, and others are bogus.



Hayagrīva: That's, that's all.



Prabhupāda: That's all. (end)





SPINOZA.HAY



Benedict Spinoza



Hayagrīva: Spinoza. Spinoza says that "The infinite God must possess infinite attributes." He is saying that God, being the basis of all existence, cannot be described in a material way. He is a pantheist in the sense that he believes in the one substance. However, he believes that God has infinite divine attributes, and only two of these attributes fall within the realm of human experience, and these are thought and extension, or mind and matter.



*Prabhupāda: So, so far God is concerned, and undoubtedly He is unlimited and His qualities are unlimited. So His one of the most important quality is called Bhakta*-vatsala. He is very much dear to His devotee, Bhakta-vatsala. So He has unlimited devotees and unlimited dealings with them; therefore He is unlimitedly expanded. That is pantheism. But it does not mean because He is unlimitedly expanded, His personality is lost. He is person always, even though He is unlimitedly expanded. That is the Vedic version: pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate [Iso Invocation]. He is complete, and if another complete form expands from Him, still He remains complete. He is not lost. The material conception is if one unit, if something is taken from it, then it becomes less of that thing. But God is so complete that you can go on taking from Him unlimitedly, still He remains unlimited. That is pantheist. I think they are impersonalist.



Hayagrīva: Yes. Spinoza is impersonal. He asserts that God cannot be a remote cause of the creation. He says that the creation flows from God in the same way that conclusions flow from principles in mathematics. God is free to create, but He is the eminent cause. That is to say, the creation is an extension of Himself.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, He creates by His energy. Just like in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated,



bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca

bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ aṣṭadhā

[Bg. 7.4]



*These eight kinds of material elements-earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence and ego*-they are material energies, and this material world is made of these material elements. So because it is made of God's energy, therefore it is called created by God. But this is creation of His energy. Prakṛtiḥ pradhāna, upadhāna, pradhāna. The ingredients are coming from Him, and prakṛtiḥ, nature, creates. This is the idea of creation. So God is a remote cause and a eminent cause also, because these elements, they are God's energy. So the eminent cause is the energy. Therefore it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "By Me, everything is expanding." So when He says "By Me," then He is the eminent cause. There are two causes: remote and eminent.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So both, He is remote cause and eminent cause.



Hayagrīva: Both remote and eminent.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He says that each soul coincides with its body. That is to say, the soul acquires a body befitting it...



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: ...a soul acquires a body befitting it. A soul can progress beyond bodies to come to know spiritual truths by turning toward God rather than the material world.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Or, as Spinoza would put it, by turning toward God's extensions. He calls them God's extensions.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: Because he is pantheistic.



Prabhupāda: This is..., expansion also we accept. What is called, there is technical name, pracāra (?). Expansion, that is stated in *Bhāgavatam*, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "By Me everything is expanded." This very word is used. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. So expansion is also God, but at the same time in expansion there is no God. "No God" means not in person. The expansion is imperson, but expansion is from the person. Just as a government, this is impersonal, but the governor is person. So government means under the control of the governor. So impersonal expansion of God is controlled by the personal God. This is like pantheism. And pantheism, so I think that because everything is God, that God has no personal existence. Is it not?



Hayagrīva: Yes. Pantheists would say that God is eminent in everything.



Prabhupāda: Everything.



Hayagrīva: But has no personal or remote...



Prabhupāda: So that is material thought. That is material thought, because the paper in your hand, if it is made into pieces and thrown, expanding, then the original paper is lost. So this is material conception. But the spiritual conception is that He may expand Himself unlimitedly; still, He remains in His own person.



Hayagrīva: He believed that as long as man is composed of body and soul, he will be under the mode of passion, and as long as the soul is confined to the body, the living entity will necessarily be attached to the physical world.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We call it māyā. So that can... The body and soul in the material world is there, and therefore the aim of life is how to separate this soul from material body and remain in his original, spiritual form. That is the whole ideal objective for human life, because as long as he remains attached to the body, and... But he has to change the body. That is our practical experience also. We are changing always the body, one after another, and if we give up our attachment for this body, then we are liberated. That is called mukti, to remain in a spiritual body. That is possible only by always thinking of God. That is meditation. That is actual meditation. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. To become Kṛṣṇa's devotee, to become worshiper of Kṛṣṇa, and always offering obeisances: "My Lord, I am Your eternal servant. Kindly keep me engaged in Your service"*-that much prayer; nothing more. Then he remains always in... [break]



Hayagrīva: Continuation of Spinoza. Spinoza considered good and evil to relate only to man. They have no basis in God, who is beyond good and evil.



Prabhupāda: Right. But as everything is God, as Spinoza thinks that his... What is his position of bad? What is his conception?



Hayagrīva: That God is beyond good and...



Prabhupāda: God is beyond, but what is his position of evil? Evil is there, but he said that God has no evil. Then wherefrom the evil comes?



Hayagrīva: Seems inconsistent.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He writes...



Prabhupāda: We, we say that God... Good and evil, they are also emanation from God. Evil is the back side and good is the front side.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "He who knows himself and knows his affections clearly and distinctly, and that with the accompaniment of the idea of God is joyous, for he knows and loves God. Thus through knowledge of the self one can come to know something of God, and in this way man can be happy and love God." But there is no mention here of service.



Prabhupāda: Love means service. Just like mother loves the child, she gives, she gives service. The father loves the child, she gives the service, he gives the service. So,



dadāti pratigṛhṇāti

guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati

bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva

*ṣaḍ*-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam



Love means to give and to accept some gift from the lover, dadāti pratigṛhṇāti, to feed him and to take foodstuff from him, to disclose his mind to him and understand his mind also. These six reciprocation of dealings is love. So love includes service.



Hayagrīva: Spinoza's God is clearly not a personal God. Spinoza is an impersonalist, and his love for God is more intellectual or philosophical than theistic or religious. Being an impersonalist, Spinoza believed in the identity of the individual soul with God. This is not to say that he believed that the individual soul is infinite, but that it is not distinct from God. He writes, "Thus that love of the soul is a part of the infinite love with which God loves Himself." He sees the soul's intellectual love of God and God's love for the individual soul, which is within man, to be one and the same love.



*Prabhupāda: Love is five kinds of love: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vatsalya, mādhurya. The beginning of love is awe and adoration: "Oh, God is so great. God is everything." When he understands God's potency, unlimitedness, the soul adores Him. That adoration is also love. When that adoration is further advanced, then he serves God as master and servant. When the service is more intimate, then friend to friend*-as one friend renders service to other friend, the other friend renders to other friend, like that, reciprocal. Then further expanded, the love is turned into paternal love, and further expanded it is expanding into conjugal love. So there are different stages of love. So Spinoza is touching only the beginning of love, simply adoring, appreciating God's power, expansion, that much. But when this love of adoration expands, that is called dasya-rasa, sākhya-rasa, vatsalya-rasa, madhurya-rasa. So he is on the beginning state of loving God. He has not advanced farther.



Hayagrīva: It, it seems that he believes in the Paramātmā present within all beings but does not believe in the jīva along with Paramātmā. Is this a typical impersonalist position?



*Prabhupāda: That means he does not know what is love. If God loves the living entity, then He must be well*-wisher, friend of the living entity. And because God expands Himself unlimitedly, therefore He lives with the living entity, and living entities are unlimited. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. In Upaniṣads also it is confirmed that two birds are sitting on tree; one is eating the fruit and the other is simply witness. So this witnessing bird is God; *therefore Paramātmā and jīvātmā live together. And there are many other places*-sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo [Bg. 15.15]. He reminds the living entity that "Unless Paramātmā is there, I forget everything of my past life." But because I wanted to enjoy something in my past life, God gives him the opportunity and reminds him, "Now you wanted this. Here is the opportunity. You do it." So Paramātmā is always with the jīva.



Hayagrīva: He does not believe that God has a body because by body, he says, we understand a certain quantity possessing life, breadth and depth, limited by some fixed form, and that to attribute these to God, a being absolutely infinite, is the greatest absurdity.



*Prabhupāda: No. God has body, but not this material body. The material body is limited. That does not mean... This is imperfect knowledge of the spiritual quality. God has got body. That is confirmed in Vedic literature, sac*-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Vigraha means body, a form. But His form is eternal. He is all-aware, sat-cit, and He is always blissful. So this body is neither eternal nor blissful nor all-awareness. Therefore this body is different from God's body. But God has got a body which is different in quality. That is spiritual body.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "God is free from passions, nor is He affected with any emotion of joy or sorrow. Properly speaking, God loves no one and hates no one, for God is not affected with any emotion of joy or sorrow, and consequently he neither loves nor hates anyone."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. He is called ātmā*-pama (?). He doesn't require anything from anyone. He is complete. But if anyone offers Him something out of love, it is his benefit who is offering something to God. God doesn't require anything. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: [Bg. 9.26] "A devotee, out of his love, even he offers Me a little leaf, little water, little flower," tad aham aśnāmi, "I eat that." So God is fully satisfied in Himself. Why He desires a patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam from a devotee? It is not for His benefit. But if he begins to offer something out of love, then his love begins with God. He gives him the chance. So offering to God does not mean God is benefited. It is benefit of the devotee that he begins to offer, and if he gradually develops that love, then his life is successful. So it is a chance. God does not require anything, but the giver, whatever he, he gives to God, it is for his own benefit. Just like the example is given, the..., if your face is decorated, then the reflection of the face in the mirror is automatically decorated. So we are reflection of God. If God is decorated then we become decorated. That is the idea.



Hayagrīva: So when Kṛṣṇa destroys demons, He does so without passion or without hatred?



Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. It is the benefit of the demon.



Hayagrīva: Spinoza writes, "No sorrow can exist with the accompanying idea of God. No one can hate God."



*Prabhupāda: Therefore He is sac*-cid-ānanda. That is the description of Vedic literature, ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt, by nature is always full of pleasure. He is the source of pleasure. We therefore see Kṛṣṇa's picture when He is dancing with the gopīs, He looks very pleasing, and when He is killing some demon He looks very pleasing. Not that He is morose that His is killing, because you know that He is not killing; He is giving him salvation.



Hayagrīva: Well, he says no one can hate God, but what about Kaṁsa and others?



Prabhupāda: That is demonic. Naturally one is in love with God. He should love God. But when he is in māyā he thinks himself as separate from God. Instead of loving Him, he thinks himself as separate from God. Instead of loving Him, he thinks that God is hindrance, my competitor of sense gratification, therefore avoid God, kill God, I become absolute sense gratifier. Anyone who hates God means he is a demon.



Hayagrīva: Spinoza writes, "The more we understand individual objects, the more we understand God." Is this the proper process? Wouldn't you say that the more we understand God the more we understand individual objects? Which is uh...



Prabhupāda: Anything you take, that is perfection of knowledge in God. Which thing is not related with God? Everything is related with God. In the material world anything you will take it is made of the five elements, but these five elements, they are expansion of God's energy. So intelligent person sees in everything with reference to God's expansion of energy. That is the position of devotee. He does not think anything separate from God. And as he is lover of God, devotee of God, he wants to engage everything, because if everything is God's property, that should be used for God's benefit. This is devotee's conception. The asuras, they have no conception of God. Neither they are obedient to God, neither lover of God. He thinks the material world is for his enjoyment. He cannot see the material world is expansion of God's energy. Therefore anyone who uses the material product for his personal benefit, he is called a thief. Just like I have created something. If somebody use up that something and does not think of the proprietor, he is a thief. Thief means, in our childhood we got a definition of thief, that anything taken without the permission the property is theft. That is very nice. So anything in this world has reference to the expansion of energy of God. So if you do not take everything as prasādam, then you are thief and you are punishable. A thief is always punished. So therefore those who are enjoying things without reference to the God, they are all demons and they are punishable. They are thieves.



Hayagrīva: That's all on Spinoza. (end)





LEIBNITZ.HAY



Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibnitz



Hayagrīva: And this is Leibnitz, Leibnitz.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Hayagrīva: Concerning the relation between the soul and the body, Leibnitz writes, "In so far as the soul has perfection and distinct thoughts, God has accommodated the body to the soul and has arranged beforehand that the body is impelled to execute its orders," the orders of the soul.



Prabhupāda: Who, who orders?



Hayagrīva: "God has accommodated the body to the soul and has arranged before..."



*Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhagavad*-gītā,



*īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ

*hṛd*-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati

*bhrāmayan sarva*-bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

[Bg. 18.61]



That the body is a machine. The soul wanted to walk or move in a certain specific way, and He has given these instructions. Just like if you want to go by car, the car is there; if you want to go by bus, the bus is there; if you want to go by railway, the railway is there; if you want to fly by airship, the airship is there. Similarly, the soul is desiring in a particular way, and God is supplying through His material agent a..., that particular type of body. Therefore the bird is flying, the fish is within the water, and the uncivilized men or animals within the forest and civilized men in the city. In this way different, 8,400,000's of different bodies are there according to the desire of the soul, and the machine of the body is supplied by nature under the order of God. This is explained.



Hayagrīva: Oh, he says insofar as the soul is perfect it controls the body, but insofar as the soul is imperfect or its perceptions are confused, the soul is slaved by the passions arising out of corporeal representations.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: In other words, uh...



*Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā very nicely, that the soul is in this material world, and he is influenced by the three modes of material nature. So according to his position under the influence of three different kinds of modes, he is getting this body. It is on account of his free will. Just like if he wants to eat anything and everything up to stool, then he is given the body of a pig. If he wants to eat direct blood, sucking, then he gets the body of a tiger. And if he wants to eat first-class nutritious food, then he is given the body of a brāhmaṇa. In this way we are getting different types of bodies according to our desire. We are creating different types of desires, that "We shall be happy in this way, we shall be happy in this way." Just like we see practically, somebody is going to the restaurant, he thinks, "By eating here in restaurant I shall be happy." And somebody is going to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness temple, he is thinking that "I shall be happy by eating here." So Kṛṣṇa has given everyone the chance, but he is trying to be happy but he is not becoming happy, because he is misusing his intelligence, cent percent abiding by the orders of God; therefore he is suffering. As such, Kṛṣṇa comes personally and induces him that "You don't desire in this way. You give up all this material desire. You simply desire to act according My order, you surrender unto Me, and I will give you all happiness."



Hayagrīva: Leibnitz pictures a kind of city of God. He writes, "God is the monarch of the most perfect republic composed of all the spirits, and the happiness of this city of God is His principal purpose. The primary purpose in the moral world, or the city of God, which constitutes the noblest part of the universe, ought to be to extend the greatest happiness possible."



Prabhupāda: Yes. We agree to that. If everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and acts according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then this hell, hellish world, becomes the city of God.



Hayagrīva: He says we must... "Therefore we must not doubt that God has so ordained everything that spirits not only shall live forever, because this is unavoidable, but that they shall also preserve forever their moral quality so that His city may never lose a person."



Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Vaikuṇṭha conception, yaj jñātvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam, "That is My specific place, where going nobody returns back to this miserable material world." These ideas are taken from Vedic literature, that's all. They are not new. It is known already to the Vedic students. Everyone has taken from *Vedas*, and they have presented their own way.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "The soul changes its body only gradually and by degrees, so that it is never deprived of all its organs at once. There is often a metamorphosis in animals, but never metempsychosis or transmigration of souls."



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: That is he does not believe that the souls in animals transmigrate at death from one body to another.



Prabhupāda: Then what is his understanding of the soul?



Hayagrīva: He says there are no entirely separate souls without bodies.



Prabhupāda: That is rascal. That means he is imperfect. How he can say so when we practically see that the soul is changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood? How he can say like that? He is transmigrating. That is, every day we have experience. How he can deny that? Otherwise, if he, if the soul does not transmigrate, then how the child becomes a young man? The body is different. The, this is simple understanding, that he has changed the body. The body changes and the soul remains eternal.



Hayagrīva: He further writes on this... He says, "There is strictly speaking neither absolute birth nor complete death consisting in the separation of the soul from the body. What we call birth is development or growth, as what we call death is envelopment and diminution."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is transmigration. That is transmigration. He hasn't..., he is not dead, but he has developed into another body. That is transmigration. Then why does he deny that?



Hayagrīva: So he says, in other words, as soon as the human soul leaves the body, it must immediately...



Prabhupāda: Enters another body.



Hayagrīva: ...enter another.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: But not nec..., but not in the case of ghosts.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: With the exception of...



Prabhupāda: Ghost, he is already in the body.



Hayagrīva: Oh, uh huh, the subtle body.



Prabhupāda: The subtle body.



Hayagrīva: He further writes, "God alone is wholly without body."



Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no material body. He does not transmigrate.



Hayagrīva: He didn't...



Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ: [Bg. 9.11] "The rascals, they think, because I am just like a human being, they think I am another human being." He is not human being; *He is the Supreme Person. And when He said that "I remember," this is also another proof, that "I spoke to the sun*-god millions of years ago." Because He remembers, that means He does not change His body. Just like we can remember of this body so many things, so long as..., but we do not remember what I was in the past life because the body has changed. And Kṛṣṇa remembers because His body has not changed. He is in the same body.



Hayagrīva: Leibnitz did not believe that the city of God, what he called the city of God, is divorced from the natural world. Rather, it is a moral world within the natural world. He writes, "The assembling of all spirits must compose the city of God. That is the most perfect state possible and of the most perfect of monarchs," meaning God. "This city of God, this truly universal monarchy, is a moral world within the natural world and the highest and most divine of the works of God."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. We can construct such city immediately if the League of Nation-they are trying to be united*-they come to their right sense, that this planet does not belong to any particular nation; *it belongs to God. This simple fact, if they accept and cultivate on this point, then immediately the whole world will be the city of God. But they will not do this. They have gone to the United Nation to settle up all problems of the world, but they keep themselves in the dog's mentality: "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian." But he is not. But if they give up this designation, that "I am American," "Indian" or "Hindu" or "Muslim," "Christian..." We are all part and parcel of God, and the whole planet belongs to God. We are His sons, and we can live peacefully as the sons of father. Father is supplying everything, so we can utilize. Now they, in some country, just like in Australia or New Zealand we find enough cows to supply milk, and in India practically there is no milk. So if the United Nations gives this, accepts this version, that everything belongs to God, so where is the scarcity? It may be in one place one thing is in scarcity, but other place it is enough. So where it is enough, that can be distributed where there is need. Then immediately it becomes city of God. If anyone abides by the order of God and everything produced is divided among the sons of God, then where is the question of scarcity? There is..., there cannot be any scarcity. But they have no reason. They are denying the actual fact that everything belongs to God. It is common sense. Such a vast ocean, who has created this? Has any nation has created, or any individual person has created? So to whom belongs this ocean? What will be the answer? Huh? What will be the answer? If I question that "Shall we dig a little ditch and there is water. We fill up." So such a big ditch, who has done it? Where is the question that there is no God? Somebody has done. That is common sense. And who has done it not only this one ocean-millions of oceans are floating in the sky*-who has done it? Who has created? Huh? What will be the answer? So they, this modern so-called civilization, they have lost their common sense. They want to remain in animal consciousness; therefore they are suffering. (end)





LOCKE.HAY



John Locke



Hayagrīva: And John Locke, Locke is the..., is most famous for his conception of tabula rasa, or blank slate, that a child is born with no innate ideas. He states that "If there are innate or inborn ideas, all men would have them." That is to say, there would be universal consent. He writes, "This argument of universal consent, which is made use of to prove innate principles, seems to me a demonstration that there are none such because there are none to which all mankind give a universal consent." So it cannot be argued that all people have an innate or inborn idea of God since there is no universal consent on this subject. Well, do innate ideas have to be universal? Might not some living entities have some innate ideas and other living entities have others? Why does an innate idea have to be universal and apply to everyone?



Prabhupāda: Yes. Innate idea is that there is somebody. That is developed consciousness. The animals, they cannot think, on account of nondeveloped consciousness, but even in human society, uncivilized society, they have got the innate idea of some superior form. When there is lightning, they offer obeisances. When they see big ocean, they offer obeisances, something big. So that innate idea is universal, to offer obeisances to something wonderful. But this innate idea of accepting something supreme and offering respect is not developed in the animal. So this innate idea is there. When it is not developed, it is animal, and when it is developed, then it is human being. And a perfect human being is he, when he has developed this innate idea to the fullest stage. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Hayagrīva: Would it not be better to say that the living entity is born with certain tendencies, rather than innate ideas, which carry over from a previous life?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: And that he needs only meet with some stimulus in order for these tendencies to be manifest?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when the, a dog, cat, is born it has no eyes, and it searches out the nipples of the mother. So although his eyes are all closed*-you have seen the dogs-but because in his previous life as dog he had the experience where to find out the food, so even though it cannot see, it traces out where is the food. That is past experience and that is the proof of the continuation of the soul eternally. Just like I am living in this room and, say, for ten years I am absent from this room, but after ten years when I come here, immediately I remember where is the toilet, where is my sitting place, everything. So that remembrance comes from the last visit. So a living entity is passing through different species of form. That is his material life. So in some previous life, millions of years, when he was a dog, he knew where to find out his food, so immediately in the dog's body again, he remembers. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of John Locke. Now you said that from your very birth you knew that Kṛṣṇa was the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now does this mean that from your very birth you were acquainted with the name Kṛṣṇa, or didn't your father have to at least say the word once? Now Locke would argue that the idea of Kṛṣṇa is not an innate idea because it is not universally assented to.



Prabhupāda: Universally...?



Hayagrīva: Universally, not everyone acknowledges that Kṛṣṇa is God, so he would say that idea is not inborn in the mind.



Prabhupāda: No. In the material world they have got different ideas. That undeveloped mind has got different ideas, but developed, what is called, idea or conception, perfect conception is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if one remembers Kṛṣṇa consciousness after his birth, that means he had previously cultivated. There is a verse, you can find out: ataḥ. Find that.



Devotee: *Gītā*?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The word begins ataḥ paurva*-dehikam. You can stop the machine and find it. [break] You can record it. Tatra taṁ paurva-dehikam buddhi-saṁyogam. Yes, that is. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness, culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is never lost. It goes on, unless it is perfect. Therefore it is stated, sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even little acting on Kṛṣṇa consciousness can save one from the greatest danger-as it was done by Ajamila. He cultivated Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the beginning of his life, then he fell down, he became the greatest debauch. But at the end of life again he remembered Nārāyaṇa and he got salvation. Tatra taṁ buddhi-saṁyogam [Bg. 6.43]. Read Bhagavad-gītā carefully. All answers are there. This philosopher cannot go beyond Bhagavad-gītā.



Hayagrīva: Some people have been said to have remembered events in their previous lives. How are these reminiscences or ideas different from innate ideas? How is it possible for one to recall events?



Prabhupāda: Innate idea is in everyone, that is, "God is great, and I am," what is called, "controlled." That innate idea is everywhere. But sometimes, out of ignorance one tries to become God. That is not possible. That is māyā, and he suffers from this. Artificially trying to become God, that is simply waste of time. It will never become possible. That is called māyā. Otherwise, innate idea is that he is servant and God is great. That is innate idea.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "The knowledge of our own being we have by intuition. The existence of a God, reason dearly makes known to us. We have a more certain knowledge of the existence of a God than of anything our senses can discover." Now how is this? If this is the case, how is it that some men have no conception of God?



Prabhupāda: He has conception of God, practically, but because under the spell of māyā he has become foolish, he tries to cover that conception, that somebody is there. How any sane man can deny that some superior power is there who has created this vast ocean, vast land, vast sky? How one sane man can avoid this conception? Nobody can avoid, but artificially, foolishly, he tries to avoid. Atheism. But that will not endure, that will not stay. His foolishness will be exposed. So this is innate idea, but the atheist class, demon class, they want to cover this innate idea artificially.



Hayagrīva: And Locke argues on behalf of private property given to man by God. That is to say a man may have a certain stewardship over a certain amount of property. Is this in compliance with the Īśopaniṣadic version?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: [Īśo mantra 1] everything belongs to God. Just like the father has got many sons and the father is the proprietor of the house. He gives one son, "This is your room," the other son, "This is your room." So the obedient son is satisfied what the father allows to him. Others, those who are not obedient, they want to disturb other brother that "This room also belongs to me." That creates chaos and confusion in the world. The United Nations, they have created a society for unity of the nations, but actually that is not unity. That is another way of encroaching upon others' property. Therefore there is no peace, unless they accept God is the Supreme proprietor. And we must be satisfied with the allotment God has given to us. Then there is no trouble. But the trouble is that we are not satisfied with the allotment given to us. That allotment can be understood by language or similar culture. So why one should encroach upon others' property which is allotted by God? That creates disturbance. So this so*-called modern civilized man, first of all they create disturbances, and then they want to make some adjustment. Of course, for the good of a certain people, if somebody encroaches... But they do not know what is good. They encroach upon others' property for their personal sense gratification. Otherwise, if for the good of the local people somebody, some (indistinct), just like the Aryans, they conquered over many islands or places, but that was for the good of them. Just like the Pāṇḍavas, they also ruled over, but the Pāṇḍavas were God conscious devotees and they made everyone enlightened in God consciousness. That kind of encroachment. Just like Lord Rāmacandra went to Ceylon, or Lanka, and conquered over it, because Rāvaṇa was a demon. So He conquered, Lord Rāmacandra conquered over the property of Rāvaṇa, and gave it to Vibhīṣaṇa, but He did not take anything. Just like Kṛṣṇa conducted, managed this Kurukṣetra war personally, but the kingdom was given to Yudhiṣṭhira. He did not encroach. So this kind of encroachment is all right, that everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, everyone should be highly elevated in spiritual life. For spreading this civilization, encroaching on others' property is quite fit. But if one encroaches upon others' property for self-aggrandizement, for stealing for his own sense gratification, that is sinful.



Hayagrīva: So much for Locke.



Prabhupāda: Hm. That's all. (end)





BERKELEY.HAY



George Berkeley



*Hayagrīva: Berkeley. Berkeley*-very brief section on Berkeley. Berkeley seems to be arguing against objective reality. In other words, three men standing in a field looking at a tree could all have a different impression or idea of the tree, or at least according to his argument. The problem is, although there are three impressions of the tree, each differing from one another, there is no tree as such. Now, how does the tree as such exist? In the mind of God? Is it possible for a conditioned living entity to perceive the suchness or essence of anything?



Prabhupāda: Everything means God, expansion of God's energy. So how tree or anything can be without reference to God? We see that the earthen pot is on the ground, on the, what is called, ground?



Hayagrīva: The what?



Prabhupāda: Earthen pot, pot, pots made of earth.



Hayagrīva: Earthen pots, pot that's made of earth.



Prabhupāda: So it is staying on earth, so the earthen pot is not different from the earth. So everything is expansion of God's energy. How we can avoid God with reference to anything that we see? There cannot be anything independent of God. The example is there: the earthen pot, as soon as you see, we remember the potter, that "Who has made?" and the wheel of the potter. So a... God is the original creator, He is the ingredient, and He is the category also, and He is the original substance. That is the conception, Vedic conception of God. He is everything. That is nondual conception. And if you make anything separate from God, then how you can say sarvaṁ khalu idaṁ brahma, "Everything is Brahman"? Then if you say everything is God, at the same time you separate something from God, so that is, what is called, contradiction. Our conception is, "Yes, actually everything has reference to the God, so everything is God's property. It should be utilized for God's service." That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.



*Hayagrīva: In his last dialogue, Berkeley writes, "The apprehension of a distant Deity naturally disposes men to be negligent of their moral actions, which they would be more cautious of in case they thought Him"*-that is God-"immediately present."



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. We say, the Vedic śāstra says, that God is everywhere; *He is not distant. In the Kuntī's prayer it is said, "God is distant and nearest also." So nearest, by God's paramātmā feature, He is living in everyone's heart, īśvaraḥ sarva*-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... [Bg. 18.61]. So He is within our heart; *how He can be distant? But at the same time He is in His personal feature, He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana, which, beyond, far, far beyond this material existence. So that is God's all*-pervasive equality, that although He is far, far away, still He is near, nearest. The crude example is there that the heater, the original source of heat and light, is far, far away, ninety-three millions miles according to the modern scientist calculation, the sun. But still the light is in my room. So God is both far away and also within my heart. So one who is expert to see God, he sees both way. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto [Bs. 5.37]. Although He is living in His own abode eternally, and enjoying with His associates, still He is present everywhere. That is God.



Hayagrīva: Well, in what way is God concerned with the moral or immoral actions of man? Is God indifferent to them, or has He simply set the laws of nature in motion and allowed men to follow their own course and reap the fruit of their own karma?



Prabhupāda: The nature's course is that because we have disobeyed God, therefore we are thrown into this material world under the supervision of the material nature to correct him. So, so long he is in the material world, there is distinction between moral and immoral. Although both of them are material, it has, actually has no meaning, moral or immoral. But in the material world that conception is there, moral or immoral. But when one is in the spiritual world, there is no such thing as immoral; everything is moral. Just like gopīs, they were others' wives, but they were coming to Kṛṣṇa in dead of night. That is immoral. But because they are coming to Kṛṣṇa, it is not immoral. Therefore in the spiritual world there is no such thing as moral or immoral. Everything is moral. In the material world there must be moral and immoral; otherwise this material transaction cannot go properly.



Hayagrīva: So much for Berkeley. (end)





HUME.HAY



David Hume



*Hayagrīva: These are notations on David Hume. Abstract objects, relations, space, matter and time are all considered by Hume to be mind*-dependent perceptions. In other words, perceptions are all there is. He rejects revealed religion, that is, the religion of the śāstras, and embraces natural religion, that is, a religion wherein the existence of God can be proved or even shown to be probable by argument and reason. According to Hume we really know nothing of God, for at the most we can only know are peoples' ideas of God, and these are but perceptions. It would thus seem that it is impossible to know God according to Hume's natural religion because the senses are admittedly imperfect, and these are the only instruments of certainty Hume admits in his natural religion.



Prabhupāda: What is that natural religion?



Hayagrīva: Well, he says the self is nothing but a bundle or collection of different perceptions which succeed each other with inconceivable rapidity and are in perpetual flux and movement. So he says there's nothing but perception. He rejects revealed scriptures as such, but he says, "The heavens and the earth join in the same testimony. The whole course of nature raises one hymn to the praises of its creator. I have found a Deity and here I stop my inquiry. Let those go further who are wiser or more enterprising."



Prabhupāda: First point is that our senses are imperfect. That is admitted. And God is perception. But whether he believes actually in the existence of God?



Hayagrīva: He believes in the existence of God.



Prabhupāda: And what is his perception of God? If he believes in God, then he must give some idea what is God.



Hayagrīva: He has no idea other than the fact that...



*Prabhupāda: Anyway, if he believes in God, a fact, then instead of so*-called perception, why not understand from God what He is?



Hayagrīva: Well, he, um...



Prabhupāda: Our senses are imperfect. We, we admit that there is God. Now, if our senses are imperfect, how we can imagine "God is like this," "God is like that"? That actually if God explains Himself, why should we not accept that?



Hayagrīva: In his, uh... Hume appears opposed to the search for God in the ideal world. He writes, "Why not stop at the material world? How can we satisfy ourselves without going on ad infinitum, forever. If the material world rests upon a similar ideal world, this ideal world must rest upon some other and so on, without end. It were better, therefore, never to look beyond the present material world.



Prabhupāda: Material world means full of miseries. Therefore those who are advanced, they are searching after another world where there is no misery. This is the idea. And this searching after happy world, that is permanent. Everyone is searching after that. That is not unnatural. But actually there is such world, and if there is, why should you not hanker after that world?



Hayagrīva: He appears opposed...



Prabhupāda: Two things: that this world is experienced, nobody is happy, unless he is an animal. Animal, they do not know what is happiness or distress. In any condition they remain satisfied. But a man, he feels pain. Just like our Hari-śauri was speaking that there were reports that because the children cry, sometimes parents kill them. This is the world. And actually there have been many cases. So from practical point of view, this world is not happy. That is a fact. Now if there is a happy world, why one should not try for that?



*Hayagrīva: He says the sooner we arrive at that divine being*-the sooner we arrive at God-so much the better.



Prabhupāda: We become God?



Hayagrīva: No. In the search for God...



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: ...the sooner we find God, the better. He says when you go one step beyond the mundane system, you only excite an inquisitive humor, which it is impossible ever to satisfy.



Prabhupāda: What..., I do not follow what you mean. What is the meaning of this?



Hayagrīva: He appear... He is opposed to the search for God in the other world.



*Prabhupāda: No. You cannot search out God in your present condition. You have got some glimpse of idea that there is God. What is that mean-"There is God, then you are advanced"? At least you are better than the atheist. But by speculation you cannot understand what is God. Revelation is there to fortunate person, one who is very seriously searching after God. God is within himself. He reveals. And the other process is that if you are searching after God, then you know it from the person who has already known God, or directly from God. So the Bhagavad*-gītā is direct perception from God, so with our all reasons, all logic, if we try to understand Bhagavad-gītā, then we understand what is God.



Hayagrīva: Hume is a famous skeptic, and he would reject a revealed scripture. He looks toward science. He says all the new discoveries in astronomy...



Prabhupāda: Then if he is skeptic, that why one should believe his words and take his instruction? He is skeptic, so others skeptically reject his statement also. So there is no use of his talking.



Hayagrīva: Well, he felt that...



Prabhupāda: Now you said that he is skeptic.



Hayagrīva: Oh, yes. He felt...



Prabhupāda: So he is also skeptic. So why people should be induced to believe him and hear him? He is immediately rejected.



Hayagrīva: He felt that instead of basing belief in God...



*Prabhupāda: No, he should not think, because nobody will take his instruction. He does not believe others, does not take others' statement*-why his statement should be accepted?



Hayagrīva: Well, well he believes at least in the material senses.



Prabhupāda: Everyone believes that. Materially everyone believes. But if he says none of them are correct, so why he is so..., pose himself as correct? He is rejected immediately.



Hayagrīva: He says, "All the new discoveries in astronomy which prove the immense grandeur and magnificence of the works of nature are so many additional arguments for a Deity according to the true system of theism," that is his natural, what he calls natural religion. In this way Hume rejects the necessity or desirability of miracles as well as the conception of a God transcendental to his creation. He says it's not the being of God that is in question but God's nature. This nature cannot be ascertained through study of the universe itself. However, if the universe can only be studied by imperfect senses, what is the value of our conclusion? How can we ever come to know the nature of God?



Prabhupāda: Nature of God, it can be explained by God Himself. That is our Vedic process. We know who is God, and He explains, "My nature is this." Just like He says, "I am the greatest principle," mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. "There is no more higher principle than Me." This is fact. If something is greater than God, then how one can become God? That is not possible. So greatest means He is great in everything. He is great in richness, He is great in reputation, He is great in influence, He is great in bodily power, He is great in beauty and He is great in renunciation. If we can find out somebody that He tallies with this greatness, then He is God. So that we find in Kṛṣṇa; *therefore Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, and what He says in the Bhagavad*-gītā we accept as fact. And if we analyze His statements intelligently, pruriently, then we will find that what Kṛṣṇa says, that is fact.



Hayagrīva: Concerning different religions, he says, "All religious systems, it is confessed, are subject to great and insuperable difficulties. Each..."



Prabhupāda: (indistinct)



Hayagrīva: "Each disputant triumphs in his turn while he carries on an offensive war and exposes the absurdities, barbarities and pernicious tenets of his antagonists. But all of them," that is, all of the religions, "on the whole, prepare a complete triumph for the skeptic who tells them that no system ought ever to be embraced. A total suspense of judgment is here our only reasonable recourse."



Prabhupāda: No. Our principle is to know God from God, and religion means the principles given by God. Just like the law means the principle given by the state, similarly the principles given by God, that is religion. Otherwise it is pseudoreligion. If there is no conception of God, there is no direction of God, that is not religion. Religion is not a kind of blind faith. Religion is factual. That factual religion can be given by God Himself, and if we know God and what is His instruction, then we are religious.



Hayagrīva: Well, he believes that religion is necessary. He says religion, however corrupted, is still better than no religion at all.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That we also agree. But religion without philosophy, logic, it is sentiment. That will not help us. So just like religion given by Kṛṣṇa, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Always think of Me." So if you think of God always, so that is good for us, we become purified. So this is religion. We have to meditate upon God, think about God. Therefore temple worship, Deity worship is necessary so that we can constantly think of God. But if we do not know what is God, what is the form of God, how we can offer Him worship, how we can think of Him, then it is pseudoreligion. His type of religion will not help the follower. One must be definitely in understanding what is God and what does He speak and how to abide by His order. That is real religion.



Hayagrīva: His conception of religion is utilitarian and social.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He says, "The proper office of religion is to regulate the heart of man, humanize their conduct, infuse the spirit of temperance, order and obedience."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our system. We say, the social service, that "No illicit sex." If people indulge in illicit sex, society will be in chaotic condition. "No meat*-eating." If we go on eating meat, then we revolt against the will of God, because God is the father of all living entities; *He does not like that one of His son unnecessarily killed by another son on the plea that he is advanced son. The father cannot agree that the advanced son kill the ignorant or foolish son, the father will not agree. Therefore we say no meat*-eating. When other foods are available, why one should eat meat? When there is wife, why there should be illicit sex? So religion means one should be good character. That is religion. This is one of the qualification becoming, that one who is actually religious, God conscious, that all the good qualities, either socially, politically, everything, even politician religious. Just like Arjuna, he was on the battlefield. This is politics. But because he was devotee he was hesitating to kill his enemies all. So this is the character of a devotee, that he can sacrifice his own interest because he has become a devotee. Others cannot do. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the conclusion of Hume. He felt that one must first be a philosophical skeptic before accepting the revealed truths of religion. Ultimately Hume maintains that these truths can only be accepted on faith, not experience or reason.



*Prabhupāda: No, and why not reason? If we think that everything has some proprietor, owner, so it is quite reasonable to think that this vast land, vast sky, vast water, nature, they must have some proprietor. What is the fault in this logic? Why they conclude that there was a chunk, there was some gas, there was something like that? So why they think like that? Is that very reasonable? Wherefrom the chunk came? Wherefrom the gas came? Wherefrom the fire came? So this is reasonable. So there is a proprietor, as it is described in this Bhagavad*-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10], aham ādir hi sarveṣām. So there must be some proprietor. That is logical. That is, that is philosophy. How one can..., one thing can exist without the owner or proprietor? So this is not like, that there is no proprietor. This is illogical, or without any philosophy. But think that there is a proprietor, this is completely logical.



Hayagrīva: As far as we can ascertain, Hume personally had no religion, no faith in the Christian or any other God. He also rejected that argument or reason could justify a faith. Thus Hume is a complete skeptic who denies the possibility of ascertaining certainty outside of a mere sequence of perceptions or ideas.



Prabhupāda: This, then the argument comes. If he does not believe in anyone's statement, why he is thinking his statement will be accepted? Then he is foolish. He is a child. Instead of becoming a philosopher, he is a child, talking all nonsense.



Hayagrīva: He maintains that man cannot know ultimate reality or possess knowledge of anything beyond a mere awareness of phenomenal sensory images.



Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. But if man cannot have any knowledge, so who is going to take your knowledge? Better you stop, don't talk. Is it not?



Hayagrīva: So much for Hume. (laughs) That's the end of Hume.



Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean is not that the conclusion? If he is skeptic, he does not take other's statement why he expects that his statement will be taken? Why does he propose any statement? Does he think that he is the greatest of all? Then everyone can think like that. That skeptic has no ground. He cannot say. If he is skeptic he should stop, he should not stand.



Hayagrīva: Why write so many books?



Prabhupāda: What?



Hayagrīva: Why write so many books?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He was a Scotchman. (end)





KANT.HAY



Immanuel Kant



Hayagrīva: Immanuel Kant. Being a son of the Enlightenment, Kant strongly advocated the right and duty of every man to judge for himself in religious and secular matters. Indeed, he considered the motto of the Enlightenment to be, "Have courage to make use of your own intellect." The emphasis here is on individual freedom and on the ability of man to intuit the truth.



Prabhupāda: Does it mean that anyone, whatever he does, that is perfectly right? If he is given that freedom, then anyone will do anything as he likes. So it will be taken as...



Hayagrīva: Well he, at the same time, he considered the Bible to be the best vehicle for the instruction of the public in a truly moral religion.



Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept some authority. Where is freedom?



Hayagrīva: He believed that the individual can intuit truths within, but could be helped from without by scripture.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he should not become independent, but he advocates in the beginning that everyone should be independent. So that is not right proposal. One should be dependent on authority, and that authority should be recognized or well established. Then knowledge is possible.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "Absolutely no human reason can hope to understand the production of even a blade of grass by mere mechanical causes."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he has to know everything from the person or authority who knows that thing. That means this is perfect way of understanding, to take knowledge from the authority who is actually cognizant and knows things as they are.



Hayagrīva: He believes that behind nature or mechanical laws, he says that crude matter, or prakṛti, should have originally formed itself according to mechanical laws or automatically; *that life should have sprung from the nature of what is lifeless. That matter should have been able to dispose itself into the form of a self*-maintaining purpose is contradictory to reason. Simply by using our reason we can intuit the creator behind the creation.



*Prabhupāda: No. Unless there is a brain... Matter has no brain. Matter cannot combine together without a brain behind. That brain is the Supreme Lord, God. That is quite reasonable. And if somebody thinks matter automatically combines together and becomes the sun, becomes the moon, so bright, without any brain behind it*-that is ludicrous.



Hayagrīva: Well, he sees the design in nature, but he says the design only suggests a designer; it doesn't prove the existence of the...



Prabhupāda: No. As soon as there is earthen pot, immediately the potter is understood, and that is a fact. We cannot say that it is simply understanding that there is potter, but there is no potter. That is foolishness. Without potter, the pot is never manufactured, so as soon as you see the pot, you can immediately understand that some potter has made it. That is logic. That is philosophy.



Hayagrīva: He says because suffering and calamities overwhelm man in nature, it is impossible for man to see nature's final end.



Prabhupāda: No. Nature is not final end. Nature is only instrument. Just like I beat you with a stick. The stick is not beating you; *I am beating you. Stick is in my hand. So from nature when you get tribulation, pains, that is designed by God, and nature is instrument. Śītoṣna*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. The change of season we find nature, but why it is systematically changing unless there is brain behind nature? In such and such month there will be winter. And by accident or by some other ways the month of April does not become winter; *the month of December becomes winter. So there is adjustment. So therefore there is brain behind these natural changes and activities. That is confirmed, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10].



Hayagrīva: He says this can be intuited, but not known.



Prabhupāda: Not known? To foolish man everything is unknown, but to a man who is in knowledge, he knows everything. From the authority or my direct perception, somehow or other the knowledge is there. So "unknown" means that he doesn't care to know. Where to take knowledge he doesn't know, neither he personally knows; therefore it is unknown.



Hayagrīva: For him we cannot experience God through our senses.



*Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. We always say that when God explains Himself, that is also not to everyone*-only to the devotees. The devotees can accept the Personality of Godhead as He instructs. A nondevotee or atheist he cannot understand; he simply speculates. But by speculation it is not possible to understand God.



Hayagrīva: Kant says that speculative reason is unable to attain to a sure or adequate conception of God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our..., that the speculator cannot reach vicinity of God. It is not possible. Athāpi te. Only one can understand by the mercy of God, and this mercy is bestowed upon a person who is devotee, who is surrendered to God. Otherwise this mercy is reserved, as it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ: [Bg. 7.25] "I am not revealed to everyone and anyone; *rather, I am covered by yoga*-māyā." Because revelation means when one becomes devotee this covering curtain is... What is called, curtain?



Devotee: Curtain.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: Curtain.



Prabhupāda: No, curtain closed and opened.



Hayagrīva: Opened.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Then one can understand. Just like at night there is sun in the sky*-there is no doubt about it-but the night is (indistinct), prohibiting me to see the sun. But when the sun by his mercy rises in the morning, the night is immediately over and one can see this. So at night, by speculation you cannot understand sun, but when the sun rises in the morning... Sometimes we see from the airplane how within a second the sun comes out from the sea and everything becomes illuminated, and you can see things by light. You have got that experience?



Hayagrīva: Hm.



Prabhupāda: All of a sudden, as if it is coming from the sea.



Hayagrīva: He rejects the traditional proofs of God's existence in order to clear the ground for his assertion that God is morally necessary in a moral universe. In this universe, every soul is an end in itself, and these individual souls are like citizens in a kingdom of ends. He calls it "a kingdom of ends."



Prabhupāda: So why does he use that word kingdom if there is no king? This is unreasonable. Why does he say kingdom if...



Hayagrīva: Oh, he would say there is a king.



Prabhupāda: ...he does not believe in king? He does not believe in God. The individual souls are ends themselves.



Hayagrīva: Oh, he believes in God...



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: ...but that he rejects the traditional proofs of God. He says that God is morally necessary in a moral universe. His philosophy is a philosophy of ethics and morality.



*Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if your, his morality does not accept God, and God is there*-because we have already discussed that behind the nature there is God. So if his morality denies the existence of God, then where is the value of this morality? This morality can change at any time into degradation.



Hayagrīva: His, his emphasis are on morality is based on this. He says...



Prabhupāda: So what is morality?



Hayagrīva: He says, "For a rational but finite being..."



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: "...the only thing..."



*Prabhupāda: So one man is thinking that animal killing is good, and another man is thinking animal killing is immorality. Then who is correct? Unless you know morality means this-it is coming from authority*-that you have to follow it, otherwise you will be punished, then morality. Otherwise, if there is no background of forcing, that morality can be degraded into immorality at any moment.



Hayagrīva: Well, this is the weak..., this seems to be the weakness in his philosophy. He says, "For a rational but finite being the only thing possible is an endless progress from the lower to the higher degrees of moral perfection." So...



Prabhupāda: That means endless struggle to understand real morality. But if he takes the order of God, that he must do it, that is final morality.



Hayagrīva: This is... What he means by morality is rather vague. He does not say what this moral law is, other than it's called a categorical imperative.



Prabhupāda: But who is...



Hayagrīva: The categorical...



Prabhupāda: Who is, who will force that categorical imperative?



Hayagrīva: That says, "One should act in such a way..."



Prabhupāda: So how he will act? He is immoral. How he will act morally unless there is force?



Hayagrīva: For him, he says that the categorical imperative is that "One should act in such a way that the maxim of one's action becomes the principle for universal law."



Prabhupāda: That cannot be done. By individual soul it is impossible...



Hayagrīva: For a man.



Prabhupāda: ...to do something which will be universally accepted. That is nonsense. That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: A man cannot establish a universal law by his own action.



*Prabhupāda: No. So God can do it. Just like God says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām e.. [Bg. 18.66].. Because God says, it has to be accepted. But if some individual soul said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām, who will do that? Nobody will do it. That's why we are preaching that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." We do not say that "You surrender to me." Who will hear me? "Who are you? Why shall I surrender to you?" But if one understands that God wants this surrender, then he will agree.



Hayagrīva: According to the Christian religion, at the end of the world there is a resurrection of the body, that is the gross material body. Kant does not think very much about this. He writes, "For who is so fond of his body that he would wish to drag it about with him through all eternity if he could get on without it?"



*Prabhupāda: That is the nature. Even a hog, pig, he is living so abominable. Still, when he is captured for being killed, he cries. He does not think that "My body is so low*-grade that I have to eat stool, I live in filthy place, in a very bad smell, and I am trying to save my, this body?" But he cries. So this is called māyā. Although his body is so abominable, he wants to protect it perpetually. This tendency is there because the living entity has actually..., he is perpetual living condition. He wants that, but he wants that in this material body. That is his mistake.



Hayagrīva: He writes that "Man alone can be regarded as nature's own end or highest product, because on earth only man is capable of complying with the categorical imperative, the moral law."



Prabhupāda: So it is accepted that nature creates man, and that is not very good philosophy. Nature creates man, then nature is supreme. There is no such thing. And nature is ultimate. Nature is dull matter. What do you call nature? Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ: [Bg. 7.4] earth, water, fire. They cannot create. Nature cannot create. Otherwise the materialist scientist, they could do it by combining, combining this earth, water, air, fire. So nature is dull, lifeless. How nature can create life? What is the logic? What is the philosophy?



Hayagrīva: He wouldn't say that. He would say that man is nature's final end...



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: ...because man's moral nature alone is worthwhile.



Prabhupāda: No, no. He is giving stress that nature has made man. That is our objection, that nature cannot do anything. Nature has given a body that..., just like a tailor can give me a set of dress, but the dress, when I put on, the dress looks like a man, with hands and legs. But dress is nothing; it is simply outward covering of a man, a living entity. Similarly, nature gives us this material body, outward coating. The inside is living entity, that..., not the creation of this material nature. That is creation of part and parcel of God. This (indistinct) knowledge is imperfect, that nature has created man. That is imperfect knowledge.



Hayagrīva: He maintains that certain knowledge of God's existence would destroy a man's freedom and reduce human experience to a show of puppets frantically currying the favor of the Almighty.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is favor. Just like nobody wants to die, but the superior power obliges everyone to die. So he is dependent. Why should you think that he is independent? That is foolishness.



Hayagrīva: He sees uncertainty as a necessary ingredient for faith.



Prabhupāda: What is that?



Hayagrīva: Uncertainty is a necessary ingredient for faith.



Prabhupāda: No. Faith, faith should not be blind. That is useless. Faith... Just like I believe in the government. This is not faith, this is fact. There is government, and I am under government's law, so I have to obey the orders of government. This is not faith; this is fact. Similarly, to one who knows God and becomes dependent on Him, that is not faith; that is fact. He is happy by his depending on God. Just like a child, he knows that "Here is my father and mother." He voluntarily depends on the parents and he is happy.



*Hayagrīva: In his last work Kant seems to shift his position. He says, "Morality thus leads ineluctably to religion, through which it extends itself to the idea of a powerful moral law*-giver outside of mankind for whose will that is the final end of creation, which at the same time can and ought to be man's final end. Make the highest good possible in the world your own final end." So he seems to point to an absolute law-giver or an absolute morality, which is God, but he believes that this knowledge of God is ultimately uncertain.



*Prabhupāda: Uncertain*-for the man who does not possess the perfect knowledge. But if we believe in God, if we know God, we can get perfect knowledge from Him. Then we become perfect.



Hayagrīva: He says, "An ethical commonwealth can be followed only as a people under divine commands, that is, as a people of God, and indeed under laws of virtue. We might indeed conceive of a people of God under statutory laws. Under such laws, that obedience to them would concern not the morality but merely the legality of acts."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: "This would be a commonwealth of which indeed God would be the law*-giver."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the best quality of state. If we abide by the orders of God, or the king or the government abides by the order of God, that is ideal state.



Hayagrīva: He says, "Thus the constitution of the state would be theocratic, but man as priest receiving his bequests directly would build up an aristocratic government," like the brāhmaṇas would receive the knowledge from God.



*Prabhupāda: That theocratic government is Manu*-saṁhitā. That is Vedic literature given by Manu for the benefit of the human society.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "It does not enter men's heads that when they fulfill their duties to men they are performing God's commands and are therefore, in all their actions, so far as they concern morality, perpetually in the service of God, and that it is absolutely impossible to serve God directly in any other way, since they can effect and have an influence upon earthly beings alone and not upon God." He said we can only relate to man. We can only serve man and not serve God directly, but only serve god through man, like a humanitarianism.



*Prabhupāda: So if he does not serve God, then how he will get direction how to serve the humanity? If he does not know how to serve humanity from God, then what is the value of his service to humanity? [break] ...giving direction that "You serve humanity in this way, by preaching His message, Bhagavad*-gītā, to all humanity." Then he becomes very faithful servant of God. So to give service to the humanity means when one is a faithful servant of God, he can service to the humanity or to all other living entities, and if he manufactures his service, that is useless.



*Hayagrīva: Kant writes, "There is only one true religion, but there can be faiths of several kinds. It is therefore more fitting to say, 'This is..., this man is of this or that faith"*-Jewish, Muhammadan, Christian, Catholic, Lutheran-'than he is of this or that religion.' "



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. Actually, religion means obedience to God. So religion does not mean some sect. They are trying to understand God some way, but that is not actually religion. That is a method of understanding God. But religion begins when one has actually understood God and giving Him, rendering Him service. That is religion.



Hayagrīva: For Kant, the true religion is the divine ethical state. He is..., he was fond of quoting the Christian Bible. When Christ was demanded of the Pharisees when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, 'Lo here' or 'Lo there,' for behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Now Kant footnotes this passage by saying, "Here a kingdom of God is represented not according to a particular covenant, but moral, knowable through assisted reason." So again he insists on the priority of God within, on the priority of ethical action and the freedom to accept ethical action. And this is epitomized in his famous line, "The starry sky above and the moral law within." The starry sky above is the abode of God, is very far away, but the moral law within is very close. Thus he emphasizes that the kingdom of God is within you.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If one is actually aware of God and His instructions, then the kingdom of God is within himself.



*Hayagrīva: The Religion Within the Limits of Reason Alone-that is one of his last books*-he condemns prayer as an inner formal service to God, because God does not need information regarding the inner disposition of the person offering prayers. In other words, God does not need formal prayer to know what man needs. Such a prayer would be, "Give us this day our daily bread." However, Kant believes that it is good to teach children to pray so that in their early years they may accustom themselves to a life pleasing to God. So that prayer might add their...



Prabhupāda: That is religion: how to please God. That is not only restricted among the children, but authorized(?) to the children's father. One must know how to please God. That is real religion.



*Hayagrīva: He rejects temple attendance, church*-going as a means to salvation. He says, "Sensuous representations of God are contrary to the command of reason. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image." So he would reject...



Prabhupāda: If somebody imagines...



Hayagrīva: ...Deity worship.



Prabhupāda: ...some image, that is not required. But if a, actually just like you keep the photograph of your beloved, that is not image. Image is imagination. But when you keep the photograph of your beloved, that is not imagination, that's a fact.



Hayagrīva: When you keep a photograph...



Prabhupāda: Of your beloved.



Hayagrīva: Beloved.



Prabhupāda: That is not imagination; that is fact.



Hayagrīva: So that is all. (end)





FICHTE.HAY



Johann Gottlieb Fichte



Hayagrīva: This is Fichte. He's not as important as Kant or Hegel, but he followed pretty much in the footsteps of Kant. His first work was entitled Our Belief in a Divine Government of the Universe, and he writes, "Our belief in a moral world order must be based on the concept of a supersensible transcendental world."



Prabhupāda: But thing is that what is morality? If he cannot define what is morality, simply saying on moral principles, what is this morality? First of all you have to understand what is morality. Simply imaginary moral principle. We want practical understanding what is morality. That they have not defined.



Hayagrīva: Not, not specifically.



*Prabhupāda: Then what is immoral? Everyone will say this is morality. Just like we say, following the Vedic scripture, we say kṛṣi*-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam [Bg. 18.44], go-rakṣya, to give protection to the cows. So according to the scripture we would say it is morality, and somebody will say no, killing a cow in some religious place, mosque or synagogue, this is morality. So which one is morality?



Hayagrīva: Well he, following Kant, he emphasized inner reality...



*Prabhupāda: He may, he may follow Kant and I may follow Kṛṣṇa, but if there is contradiction, then which one is morality? How it will be decided, and who will decide? He may follow somebody. That this question I asked Professor Kotovsky in Moscow, that "You are following Communism, and we are following, say, Kṛṣṇa-ism, but your leader is Lenin and our leader is Kṛṣṇa, that so far the philosophy is concerned we have to accept a leader." So there is no difference in the basic principle of philosophy that we must have a leader. Now who shall be the leader and who will decide it? Regards to both of us, we have got a leader. Now which leader is perfect? If both of them are perfect, then why there is difference of opinion*-one leader does not agree with the other leader? So who will answer this question that who is the best leader? Leader you have to follow. That you cannot avoid. Either you follow Kant or you follow Kṛṣṇa. Either you follow Lenin or you follow Kṛṣṇa. What is the answer? Who is the perfect leader? You cannot avoid leader, either you say according to Kant, I say according to Kṛṣṇa.



Hayagrīva: Well they both emphasize intuition or conscience. The interior...



Prabhupāda: The conscience is prepared. If you go on drinking, then your conscience will say it is good, and if you go on chanting, your conscience will say this is good. The conscience is prepared according to association. There is no standard conscience.



Hayagrīva: No standard conscience or intuition.



Prabhupāda: So which one will you follow?



Hayagrīva: They seem to think there is a standard within everyone.



Prabhupāda: So what is that standard? We say the order of Kṛṣṇa is standard. That's all. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is standard, that we have got some standard. Unless there is standard, you say conscience, high sense, morality... What is that? Define it. Just like we have got definition of God. I think nobody has got any definition of God. What is the standard that a person should be called God? I don't think... it is only in Vedic literature.



aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

*jñāna*-vairāgyayoś caiva

ṣaṇṇām iti bhaga iṅganā

(*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 6.5.47)



*Clear. What is religion? Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat*-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. This is the definition of God, and dharma means the order of God. Everything is standard. What is their standard conception? And if you have no standard conception, simply imaginary morality, imaginary controller, imaginary God, how it will help us?



Hayagrīva: For Fichte the world has no objective reality outside of its being an instrument for the enactment of morality. He calls the world of the senses "the stuff of duty."



Prabhupāda: This is all vague. There is no definite direction.



Hayagrīva: He says our duty is revealed in the world of the senses. There's no definition of duty as such.



*Prabhupāda: That means I can manufacture my own duty, you can manufacture your own duty. There is no standard. But our standard is, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śar... [Bg. 18.66], whatever you, rascal, whatever you have manufactured, give it up. The Bhāgavata says that dharmaḥ projjhita atra kaitavaḥ, that all cheating type of religious system is kicked out. Here is the religious system, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. What is that satyam? Oṁ namo bhāgavate vāsudevāya. Everything is clear. And where is that clear understanding? Simply speculating. That is the difference, the Vedic standard knowledge and this speculative philosophy. So, so far we are concerned, we refer to the Vedas, śabdaḥ pramāṇam. Śabdaḥ means Vedas, śabdaḥ brahman. So whatever action we do, if it is approved by the Vedic injunction then it is standard and confirmed.



Hayagrīva: Now duty, we get back to the same thing. He writes, "True atheism consists in refusing to obey the voice of one's conscience until one thinks one can foresee the success of one's actions, and thus elevating one's own judgment above that of God and in making oneself into God. He who wills to do evil in order to produce good is a godless person."



*Prabhupāda: Now if you do not know what is God, then how you will verify your duty is nice, all*-good? What is the order of God, who is God, then where is your duty? You simply manufacture your duty. So everyone can do that. So what do you mean by duty? Duty means the order given by some superior and you follow, you do it. That is duty. But if you have no superior order, if you have no conception who is the superior, what is his order, then where is your duty? Simply by mental imagination. Is it? Does he say it like that?



Hayagrīva: Well, for him, outside of one's duty...



Prabhupāda: So what is one's duty?



Hayagrīva: Yes, well...



Prabhupāda: That he does not know.



Hayagrīva: No, that is not...



Prabhupāda: So that is a useless, because everyone will say, "This is my duty." So who has given him the duty?



Hayagrīva: But it's ambiguous in this way. It says, "Outside the enactment of duty we can not know anything else of God."



*Prabhupāda: So what is that, I am asking, what is your duty? We have got definite duty. We divide the whole human society into division. That is called varṇāśrama*-dharma. Socially, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Now the..., it is so that whatever you are doing, you must do it in one of these eight principles. So there are eight principles; there are duties. So if you act accordingly to the position, say gṛhastha, you have got a position, or a sannyāsa, you have got a position So sannyāsī means this; gṛhastha means this. So if you follow that principle, then you are doing duty. But if you have no standing, then what is your duty? That is very common sense. If you go to work in a big office, so the master of the office gives you duty, "You do this. You are dispatcher." Or "You are clerk, you are this, you are...," then it is duty. And the, if you engage, go to the office, now "Simply let me do my duty," so "What is my duty? Shall I sit down on the clerk's bench or on the superintendent bench, or on the What is my duty?" Duty must be given, that "This is your duty." Where is that indication?



Hayagrīva: It's not in here.



Prabhupāda: So then what is duty?



Hayagrīva: He says, "Our knowledge of God arises from the enactment of our duty."



Prabhupāda: So what is your duty? That God must be giving you the duty, "You do this," then you understand God; you know your duty. But if you have no conception of God, then where is your duty?



Hayagrīva: Well duty, one's duty...



Prabhupāda: These are vague philosophy.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Not philosophy. It is simply ambiguous speculation, that's all.



Hayagrīva: He was also ambiguous when it came to a personal Deity, but he seemed to lean toward impersonalism.



Prabhupāda: We shall see impersonalism. First of all impersonalism, if you stick to impersonal, then there is no specific understanding of the master who is giving you duty.



Hayagrīva: He looks on the attribution of personality to God as simply a multiplication of one's self in his thoughts.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but where is the leadership of impersonal understanding? Is there any leadership, impersonal understanding?



Hayagrīva: Well he feels that if you attribute personality to God, you're simply...



Prabhupāda: I am not attributing. God cannot be attributed! That is a false concept. I cannot manufacture God by giving my imaginary attributes. That is not God.



Hayagrīva: Well he feels that if you attribute personality to God, you are simply projecting yourself onto God.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: This is what he is saying.



Prabhupāda: He is saying, but it is not... Even if you attribute, it must be sensual. Just like, full of sense, just like we say "God is great." So at least we have got conception of greatness, so that must be in God. So we suppose a person very big, at least at the present moment if one is very rich. So then my attribution to God that He is the supreme richest person. That is quite reasonable. If we say God is the supreme wise, that is quite reasonable. So this definition given by Parāśara Muni, that aiśvaryasya samagrasya, that is perfect. Unless one is the richest of all, how can be the great? We have got some conception of greatness, so even if we attribute all the conception of great, that must be God. That is a reasonable definition. Everyone goes to pray to God, "Give us our daily bread." But if He is a poor man, then how can He supply bread? And everyone is praying, "God has to be kind to everyone to supply bread," so He must be very rich. Otherwise how He can supply bread? This is quite reasonable. If everyone comes to me to ask something, so I must be able to supply that thing. Otherwise how can I be God?



Hayagrīva: But again he feels, like the others, that if you apply personality to God or if you look on God as a person you necessarily refer to someone who is limited and finite.



Prabhupāda: No. That is his mistake. He, he is thinking God is like himself, as he is finite. That is Dr. Frog.



Hayagrīva: Yes, he says...



*Prabhupāda: That, if there is water, that water is this well. How can there be more than this? And maybe big well, that's all. But that is his conception. So this conception will not help. You cannot create God. Just like we have got God, Kṛṣṇa. As soon as there was necessity to give protection to the inhabitants of whole Vṛndāvana, the torrents of rain, and it requires a big umbrella, and immediately He lifted the whole mountain: "Come on, under this, let Me see how long this torrents of rain go on. I shall hold." That is God. He... So He was seven*-years-old boy. He was not a meditation God. Nowadays that the rascals are becoming God by meditation. What is meditation God? God is always God. Does it require meditation to become God? There are all these rascals, they are preaching, "You meditate and you become God. You think that 'I am moving the sun, I am moving the earth, I am...' " This is rascaldom. But Kṛṣṇa, He is not that kind of God. He is always God. Now it is necessary, "All right. Lift this." This is God. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya. Whole strength is there to lift the mountain. That is God.



Hayagrīva: He doesn't bring in meditation. He feels...



Prabhupāda: There are others...



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: ...they say that meditation you become God. That meditation can make, manufacture God?



Hayagrīva: Well his, his impersonalist stand leads toward pantheism.



Prabhupāda: This is also kind of meditation, speculating that "God should be like this." What is that? But they cannot define what is that, this.



Hayagrīva: He says, "The concept of God as a separate substance is impossible and contradictory."



*Prabhupāda: God is everything. There is no question of separation. That is defined in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam, "I am everything." So how He can be separate?



Hayagrīva: But he rejects God as a separate person.



Prabhupāda: He may reject, but God is everything. How he can reject God? The, the, these are the defects of speculators. They cannot give us tangible leading. That because they are defective themselves, so whatever interpretation they will give, all defective.



Hayagrīva: Oh, he would agree that God is everything.



Prabhupāda: That God is..., how he can reject? If God is everything, then how can he reject?



Hayagrīva: But he would not say that God is more than the creation.



Prabhupāda: So how everything He can create? You cannot create the Pacific Ocean, but Pacific Ocean is God. So you are limited, why you are trying to create God? God is already there. Everything is God. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. How he can reject God? Because the table is God, table is God and table is staying on God... The same example: the earthen pot is also earth and it is kept on earth. So earth both of them are. The earthen pot, a tumbler, and waterpot made of earth, everything is made of earth. This table is made of earth and it is staying on earth. So what you can reject?



Hayagrīva: But he rejects God's transcendental nature, and when you...



Prabhupāda: That thing is that everything is God, just I have given the example. The floor is God, the table is God. Now which you can reject?



Hayagrīva: He wouldn't disagree with that.



Prabhupāda: Then where is the rejection of God?



Hayagrīva: He would reject the transcendental personality.



Prabhupāda: Then as soon as you accept that everything is God, what you can reject?



Hayagrīva: The transcendental personality separate from the creation.



*Prabhupāda: Transcendental also God. As soon as you say everything is God, then that, what you call transcendental, and not transcendental, that is also God. Then how you can reject? If everything is God, how you can reject anything? Sarvaṁ khalu idaṁ brahma. There is no question of... The same example: if everything is made of earth, then where is the question of? My body is also earth. So what you can reject? That is our philosophy. We don't reject. We see God in everything. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. That is intelligence. And Rūpa Goswami said that prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari*-sambandhi-vastunaḥ, that there is everything is related with God. If we think, "This is matter, this is spirit," that is my speculation. That we have to see how God is there and how everything... Material means when you forget God. That is material.



Hayagrīva: Yet we concentrate on the personality of Kṛṣṇa.



*Prabhupāda: But that is..., that requires little brain. Those who are less intelligent or those practically no brain, simply cow dung, for them it is little difficult. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to cleanse this cow dung and make the brain pure. Then he will understand. Otherwise he is thinking God, "A person like me." But God is not like that. God is goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma*-bhūto [Bs. 5.37]. He is person. He is in Vṛndāvana, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He is dancing with gopīs, playing with the cowherd boys-still He is everywhere. Not that "Now I am dancing I have no time to go everywhere." That is not. He may be engaged in dancing, but still He is everywhere, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-de... [Bg. 18.61]. Now if He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana only, a person like us, then how He can say that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā [Bg. 9.26]? We are offering some dates to Kṛṣṇa, so He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana, He may say, "I am now busy. How can I go to your temple and eat?" No. He is also temple, in the temple also. That is God. He is everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto [Bs. 5.37]. This is definition, akhilātma-bhūto. So he has no conception of God. He cannot imagine God. He must take the understanding... [break] ...because they have no standard knowledge. Everyone is manufacturing, so then there must be difference, because everyone is imperfect. You propose something imperfect, I propose something imperfect, so there must be disagreement.



Hayagrīva: Oh, he says, "Without action, knowledge has no meaning. Not merely to know but acting according to your knowledge is your vocation, not for idle contemplation of yourself."



Prabhupāda: Yes. We...



Hayagrīva: "Know for action you are here. Your action and your action alone determines your worth."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that we are meant for rendering service to Kṛṣṇa. So we do it daily from morning, four o'clock, to night, ten o'clock, they are always engaged to give service to Kṛṣṇa. So this is practical. If you simply sit down, speculate on God and smoke cigarette, then what is the use of such speculation? Here is practical life.



Hayagrīva: Well in this sense Fichte is closer to Kṛṣṇa consciousness than most impersonalists, because most impersonalist advocate inaction and meditation on the void, but, uh...



Prabhupāda: No, impersonalist...



Hayagrīva: ...but how can you have action without action directed toward a person or toward...?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here in India, impersonalist, they have got also action. Just like the Māyāvādīs, they have also the same principle. The Śaṅkarācārya is teaching vairāgya, "Sit down under the tree, take thrice bath," so many vairāgya instruction. Rather, their instruction are more difficult than Vaiṣṇava. So vaivāgya*-vidyā's teaching. Ours is also, Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught by His personal example. There is no question of inaction, sitting idly and gossiping about God imagination. Even an impersonalist or personalist, they are fully engaged. Just like the impersonalist in India, they are reading Vedānta-sūtra, they are trying to understand. They are not idle.



Hayagrīva: He felt that faith is the basis of action, not knowledge. He felt that knowledge...



Prabhupāda: So faith is...



Hayagrīva: ...is not sufficient for action.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith is there. Just like a child, even animals, we have seen in the park the swan... What is called the children of the swan?



Hari-śauri: Cygnets.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hari-śauri: Cygnets.



Prabhupāda: Cygnets?



Hayagrīva: Cygnets.



Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of, the spelling?



Hayagrīva: Baby swans.



*Hari-śauri: C*-y-g-n-e-t-s. Cygnets.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Cygnets?



Hari-śauri: Yeah.



Prabhupāda: So we have seen it practically, this big swan is moving and the, they are also moving behind. The big one is jumping with water, and they are also jumping. They do not know where we are jumping, but they are jumping. The mother is swimming and they are swimming. This is natural.



Hayagrīva: But in Kṛṣṇa consciousness isn't knowledge rather than faith the basis for action?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. They are giving up everything: "Yes, I give up everything." So it's faith, full faith. "Now I shall have to consider whether I shall give up everything and take to Kṛṣṇa"*-that is not faith; *that is speculations. Why he should consider? That is explained in the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta. The faith is described, śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. Faith means believing firmly. And what is that believing firmly? That kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If you have got faith, then you believe firmly that "Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa I become perfect." That is faith. If you have still reservation, that is not faith, that is not faith. Here is faith. That faith, how it comes?



bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

*sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ

[Bg. 7.19]



*This faith is not so easy. After many, many births, when one actually becomes a wise man, this faith comes in. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ. Such kind of mahātmā is very rare to be seen, for this faith is not so easy. Na janma-koṭibhir labhyate, Rūpa Gosvāmī has said. This faith, sukṛtibhiḥ na janma-koṭibhir labhyate. Those who are pious, they are candidate, that also requires many, many births to come to this faith. Tatra laulyam eka mūlyaṁ na janma-koṭibhir sukṛtibhiḥ labhyate. So the faith is not so easy thing. Kṛṣṇa is, from the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, five thousand years ago, the Bhagavad-gītā is being studied by so many scholars like Gandhi, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Vivekananda, Aurobindo. Where is that faith, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām [Bg. 18.66]? They are taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and pleading their own philosophy. And where is that faith? They never taught that "You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." Perhaps this is the first time. Of course, the Vaiṣṇava teaching us like that, but we, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are teaching this, that "You catch up Kṛṣṇa." They have no faith and they are teaching Bhagavad-gītā. This is their only... They have no faith in Kṛṣṇa and they are preaching about Kṛṣṇa, they are studying Bhagavad-gītā. This nonsense is going on. They have no faith. They do not believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa. Faithless preachers, rascals, and these yogis, swamis, they are preaching Bhagavad-gītā. So this is a nice point, that faith is the beginning, but they have no faith. Then where is the beginning?



Hayagrīva: The foundation.



Prabhupāda: Foundation is lost, and what is the use of big building? Any, anywhere you go, even the Christians, they have no faith in the words of Christ. That I point out every time, that Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill," and their only business is killing. Where is faith? The Ten Commandments, that is Christ's word. Who has faith in these Ten Commandments? Then where is Christian? This is going on.



Hayagrīva: For Fichte, faith is innate in all men. He says, "So has it been with all men who have ever seen the light of the world. Without being conscious of it, they apprehend all the reality which has an existence for them through faith alone."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "This faith forces itself on them simultaneously with their existence."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "It is born with them. How could it be otherwise?"



Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we should have faith by experience that everything has got some proprietor, so why not the whole cosmic manifestation has proprietor? This is faith. You may not have seen the, who is the proprietor, but it is a question of faith. Everything I see has got a proprietor or owner, so who is the owner of this whole cosmic manifestation? This depends on faith. You may not have seen it. One says, "Who is that God? I don't see any proprietor." Then wherefrom it comes? "Ah, by accident." Is that any explanation? That is faith, that as everything has got some proprietor or some manufacturer, so why not this whole cosmic manifestation a proprietor? But you cannot say that "I am proprietor." There is some proprietor. That is faith. Just like we go, strolling in the morning, by the path. The (indistinct) park is part of high government. You know it is the property of the government. That just three yards after there is sea, now who is the proprietor of this sea? If this land is..., proprietor is the high government, now who is the proprietor of the water? There must be somebody. I may not know. That is faith. It is common sense. If the land is the property of somebody, so whose property is the sea? But there must be somebody. That is faith. Common sense. But they have no common sense even.



Hayagrīva: Getting back to conscience, that was..., we said was vague, he says, "This voice of my conscience announces to me precisely what I ought to do and what leave undone, in every particular situation of life. It accompanies me, if I but will listen to it with attention, through all the events of my life, and never refuses me my reward when I am called upon to act. To listen to it, to obey it honestly..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "...and unob..."



*Prabhupāda: So that means he wants to listen somebody's dictation. That is, as soon as you say "listen," then somebody is speaking, you listen. So that is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. God is situated in everyone's heart, and He is dictating. Even He is dictating to the thief that "You are going to steal. It is not good. If you are arrested you will be punished." That dictation is there, but he disobeys the dictation and he steals, commits sin. That is sin. So the dictator is there, we admit that. Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there within the heart, and He is giving dictation, but you disobey. But if we accept that dictation, then you become devotee. Dictation is already there; *otherwise this thief is going to steal at night? Dictation is there that "You don't go at the daytime. You will be captured and be punished." "All right, I shall go at night, when everyone is sleep." So dictation is there. Dictation is there in two ways*-from the heart and from the representative. God's representative, saintly person, spiritual master, is dictating, "My dear boy, do not do this; you do this." Outside dictation. And inside dictation. But he is disobeying. Regularly he is disobeying. Then how he can be happy?



Hayagrīva: His ultimate goal is to merge into what he calls the universal ego.



*Prabhupāda: That universal ego, so just like I have got some ego, "I am the husband of my wife," "I am the chief man in my family," "I am the president of the state"*-these are egos. But you cannot say that "I am the master of this whole universe." That is false ego.



Hayagrīva: So he feels that one can go through the universe assimilating everything, until one finally unifies with the impersonal Absolute.



Prabhupāda: Impersonal Absolute means the Absolute, as soon as you say Absolute, there is no distinction between impersonal and personal. Then it is no Absolute. If you have got distinction that "This is personal; this is impersonal," then that is not Absolute. Do you think it is Absolute? It is contradictory.



Hayagrīva: Well for, for him, God is simply the universal ego, nothing more, and that...



Prabhupāda: No. You say Absolute. As soon as say Absolute there is relative also. Otherwise what is the meaning Absolute?



Hayagrīva: Yes. He would say that. He would say that...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...there is the ego and the universal ego.



*Prabhupāda: So then why he is distinguishing, discriminating between personal and impersonal? In the Absolute there is no such difference. That is defined in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, advaya. That is Absolute. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva vidas tattvam yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. That is Absolute. Dvayam, dvayam means relative. That is not relative. So actually we are searching after the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is realized in different ways. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. The, just like the same example I gave the other day, that from a distant place you are seeing this mountain, something cloudy. You come a little forward, you will see it is green, and if you enter the mountain you will see so many varieties. The one is there, but it is due to my relative understanding by distant or nearer the Absolute is appearing in different way. Absolute is one. That is Absolute. But it is due to my position, qualitative position, we see imperson or all-pervading or Bhagavān. So actually He is Bhagavān. Brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The impersonal feature is standing on Him. Yes. That just like this, this mountain, you see from distance impersonal, but you go to the mountain you will see so many houses, so many persons, so many animals, so many. So because I am looking the Absolute from very distant place, it looks impersonal. Actually it is not. It is my position to see. Although this impersonal is also the Absolute. What you are seeing like vague cloud, this same mountain or the same hill, but... (aside:) Oh, come on. You're feeling little... (end)





HEGEL.HAY



George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel



Hayagrīva: And, uh, we can go on to Hegel?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He did quite a bit of reading in Indian philosophy, but it seems to be confined to impersonal...,



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...the *Upaniṣads*...



*Prabhupāda: It is simply, Upaniṣads is just the opposite*-spirit is not matter. That is the instruction of Upaniṣads.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "Spirit, in so far as it is the spirit of God, is not a spirit beyond the stars, beyond the world. On the contrary, God is present, omnipresent, and exists as spirit in all spirits. God is a living God who is acting and working. Religion is a product of the divine spirit. It is not a discovery of man but a work of divine operation."



*Prabhupāda: This is very important thing, that a man cannot manufacture religion. That is very important point. Therefore we say religion means the words, the order given by God. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva*-dharmān parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "You have manufactured so many religious systems. You give up, kick it out. It has no value. Here is religion." And in the beginning He said, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya: "I have appeared to re-establish the principle of religion." And He says at last that "Give up. Kick out all this so-called religion. Here is religion." What is that? Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ...: "You just surrender to Me." This is religion. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "The order given by God, that is religion." Otherwise, everything is bogus. It has no meaning. The same example: law means which is given by the government. You cannot say, "I have prepared the law." Who will care for you? Even the small law, "Keep to the right," that is religion. If you say, "What is the law? If they keep to the left..." No. That will not be accepted. "Keep to the right" is religion, and "Keep to the left" is criminal. So religion is pious and impious-everything on the order of Kṛṣṇa, or God. If you follow strictly the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then you are religious, pious, transcendental, devotee, everything. And if you defy Kṛṣṇa, you manufacture your own way, then you are rascal, asura. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. He is narādhamāḥ. This is the way. Less than the mankind, narādhamāḥ, who do not follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, or God.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "The lifting of the spirit to God occurs in the innermost regions of spirit upon the basis of thought. Religion as the innermost affair of man has here its center and the root of its life. God is in his very essence thought and thinking, however His image and configuration be determined otherwise."



*Prabhupāda: His image, if God is absolute, His image is also God. If God is absolute, then His words are also God. That is absolute conception. That iw not different. So the image which we worship in the temple, if it is actually image of God, then it is as good as God. God is absolute. God says that "This earth, water..., so everything is My energy." So even if you say, "This image is made of stone," but the stone is God's energy, bhūmi, earth. So there is a regulative principle, just like a wire, a copper wire, it is carrying electricity. Although the copper wire is not electricity, but it is carrying electricity. Similarly, if you take even material*-otherwise spiritually everything is God, that is another thing-but materially if we distinguish that the copper wire, it appears as copper wire, but if you touch, "Oh, there is electricity." So it is manipulated. Similarly, by the rules and regulation as enunciated by the experienced spiritual master and guru, then even if you think it is stone, it is God. The same example, you see it is electric wire, but it is electricity. Similarly, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. It is..., this has been warned: don't think that this śilā, stone. Is God. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as saw Jagannātha, immediately fainted. So we have to be trained up by the instruction of God how to realize God everywhere.



Hayagrīva: Hegel considered history and theodicy to be integral. He looks on history as a justification of God, and he rejects the Vedic conception of history because he doesn't see it unfolding any particular meaning. That is, universes are created, maintained and annihilated in an apparently meaningless way. For Hegel, history has to tell the story of man's elevation to God. Apart from the history of man, God would be alone and lifeless. God seems to depend on human history. God is not transcendental but is manifest in the world.



Prabhupāda: But if He is dependent on history, how He is God? This is nonsense proposal. (laughing) He is dependent on history!



Hayagrīva: Doesn't the history of mankind necessarily...



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, God is independent, satandhara (?). Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. Svarāṭ, independent. He does not depend on anything; still He is God. That is God. If He is dependent on anything, then He is not God.



Hayagrīva: But does the history of man necessarily make any sense? He saw it as progressing, as man, here again is evolution...



Prabhupāda: As soon as there is creation there is history, from the very beginning, that this is the point of creation and it will go on, history, until it is ended. Just like as soon as you are born, your horoscope is made, the history. Now throughout your whole life there are so many activities, and after, we also believe next life the history continues. But superficially we make history from the beginning to the end of this body, that's all. But God is not subject to such rule that "God is created at a certain point and He is ended at a certain point." Then where is the question of history? There is no history. History is for the small things. For me there is past, present, future. For God there is no such thing as past, present, future. So where is the history? History means past, present, future.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: But God has no past, present, future. So where is history? It is all nonsense. He does not know what is the meaning of God.



Hayagrīva: Hegel placed a great deal of emphasis on human freedom.



Prabhupāda: There is no freedom. That is another nonsense.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) He is subjected to birth, death, old age. Where is his freedom? That is another nonsense.



Hayagrīva: He accuses the Orientals, mainly the Indians... He says, "The Orientals do not know that the spirit is free in itself or that man is free in himself. Because they do not know it, they are not free."



Prabhupāda: But is he free? Why he died? The Orientals he is accusing. Why he died? This is their nonsense speculation.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "They only know that the one"*-that is, the one Brahman-"is free; therefore such freedom is only arbitrary."



Prabhupāda: Then why he says that the human being should be free?



Hayagrīva: He says this one, supreme one, is therefore a despot, not a free man, not a man. Only the Germanic nations have in and through Christianity achieved the consciousness that man as man is free and that freedom of the spirit constitutes his very nature. This consciousness arose first in religion and the innermost region of spirit.



Prabhupāda: Christian religion is that the man either goes to heaven or goes to hell. So he has got the freedom either go to hell or go to heaven. This freedom he has got. But who gives him hell or heaven? He has got the freedom to make choice, but when he is going to hell, then where is his freedom? That where is the distinction between hell and heaven? These are... If he is Christian he should answer that the man is given chance, once, either to go to hell or go to heaven. So all right, if he goes to heaven it is all right. Then if he goes to hell, where is freedom? This common sense also, that every citizen has got the freedom to live as free citizen or to go to the jail, but one who goes to the jail, where is freedom? And who gives him the chance of free citizenship or prisoner's life? Therefore his freedom is dependent on somebody, higher principle, who gives him chance to remain free or go to prison. That God is the supreme controller. He gives the living entity freedom to make his choice, either go to hell or go to heaven, but he is not completely free as God is free.



Hayagrīva: He says the grandeur of Indian religion and poetry as well as Indian philosophy have been acknowledged especially in their rejection and sacrifice of the senses. Now his conception is typical nineteenth century...



Prabhupāda: He has no study of the Vedic literature; still he poses himself to remark on the Vedic literature. That is his ignorance.



Hayagrīva: He considers the goal of Indian philosophy to be spiritual as well as physical extinction. Nirvāṇa.



*Prabhupāda: Physical extinction, everyone says that-even Christian religion says*-you go to hell, go to heaven. So who goes to heaven? Who goes to heaven? What is the qualification? Reasonably, one who has given up this physical.



Hayagrīva: He says spiritual extinction as well as physical, nirvāṇa.



Prabhupāda: But then he has no idea what is spiritual. Spiritual is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. How does it, spiritually... Spirit is also annihilated, then where is the difference between matter and spirit? Imperfect knowledge. And still they are big philosopher. Scanty knowledge.



Hayagrīva: He sees the religion of India as a religion in which man is handed laws from a God who is exterior to man, from a will that is entirely foreign to man. And he sees this to be opposed to what he considers to be a more advanced religion, in which the individual soul is lifted to the supernatural through the use of reason, internal sanction or subjective confirmation. In other words, he sees the Indian religion as being blind following of an exterior will. He says that man can only attain God through the exercise of his own free will.



Prabhupāda: Then why the animals cannot? Animal is given complete free will.



Hayagrīva: He says animals have no will.



Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. If he has no will, why he goes to different direction?



Hayagrīva: He says that animals have no right to life because they have no will.



Prabhupāda: Just see. What is the symptom of life? First of all settle up, how do you know? We can distinguish that this table has no life, that a small ant on the table there is life. How you distinguish, that here is life, there is no life? Then what is the symptom of life? If the symptom of life is there in animal, there is life. Why they will say there is no life? What is the philosophy? There is life. He is eating; you are eating. He is sleeping; you are sleeping. He is having sex; you are having sex. He is also afraid of enemy; you are also afraid. Then why do you say that you have life, he has no life? What is the symptom of life? This is the primary symptom of life. So if he has got these primary symptoms of life, how do you say he has no life? That means you have no intelligence even.



Hayagrīva: He associates religion with...



Prabhupāda: As this table has no life, because the table does not require to eat, the table does not require to sleep... But another thing, a small ant, he is hankering after "Where is a little sugar?" hankering, eating. That is life.



Hayagrīva: He would see that as instinct.



Prabhupāda: So what is nonsense instinct? The man has got these symptoms and the small ant has got these symptoms. That is life. That vague description, and still they are big philosopher. No perfect knowledge.



Hayagrīva: He associates religion with art. He says religion represents or pictures the absolute, whereas philosophy conceives or thinks of it.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So religion without philosophical basis is sentiment. It has no value.



Hayagrīva: And for him, God is necessarily manifest in the finite; therefore he places the incarnation of Christ, the incarnation of God, as central in the Christian religion. That is, in order to be manifest, God has to become finite. God has to become man.



Prabhupāda: Then if God is man, if He is taken as man, then why His instruction should be followed?



Hayagrīva: Excuse me? Why His instructions...?



Prabhupāda: Should be followed? You are man, I am man. Why should you follow my instructions?



Hayagrīva: Well he says..., he says you shouldn't, because there's no exterior will to be followed. This is Hegel's philosophy.



Prabhupāda: Then if he is godless, God has no use, will. Either he is godless or God has no will. Is it not? Then he is animal, and if he says animal has no will, then God becomes exactly like animal.



Hayagrīva: Speaking of the body and the soul, he says "The body, insofar as it is an uncultivated piece of external existence, is inadequate to the spirit. The spirit must first take possession of it in order to make it its animated tool. But in reference to other people, I am essentially free even as to my body. It is but a vain sophistry that says that the real person, the soul, cannot be injured by maltreatment offered to one's body. Violence done to the body is really done to me." Since the body, he says, is the tool of the soul...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...if you injure the body of a person, you are actually injuring the person...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...because you are injuring his property.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But why the Christians killing?



Hayagrīva: How is that?



Prabhupāda: Why the Christians are killing animals?



Hayagrīva: Yes. If that's the case, why mistreat the animals, animal bodies?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: The animals have no right to life, he says, because they have no will.



Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He has got will. When you take to the slaughterhouse, he protests.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "Mankind has the right of absolute proprietorship. A thing belongs to the accidental first*-comer who gets it."



Prabhupāda: What accident?



*Hayagrīva: To... A thing belongs... Or whoever comes first. Say there's a gold mine. If I get there first, it's mine, because I'm the first*-comer.



Prabhupāda: That means that, then, "Might is right."



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: But gold, they say, if he says gold is there, whose gold it is?



*Hayagrīva: He says the first*-comer...



Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all you go and say... First of all you become proprietor. But who is the actual proprietor of the gold, when you did not go? You may go first and claim proprietorship, but the gold was there. So whose property it is? Gold was there. Who made that gold? Who kept that gold? This question must be there.



Hayagrīva: He says it's mine because I put my will into it.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is mine, you have first gone there, accept it. But who kept the gold there? Who made the gold there? And if somebody else made the gold and kept the gold, you go first and capture it, then you are a thief. Is it not? I have kept something there, and somebody comes by says, "It is mine," then he is a thief, because the gold is already there, it's kept by somebody. You did not take his permission; *you simply claimed, "Because I have come first, I am the proprietor." You are not proprietor. But if the gold was kept there for taking part of it to enjoy it by everyone, and you take it by might-"I have come here first"*-then you are a thief; *you are not a philosopher. You have no sense who kept that gold, who manufactured that gold*-you do not take his permission. Because you have come first, therefore you become proprietor-then you are not a philosopher; you are thief, ordinary thief. "Might is right," "I have come" philosophy. "Therefore I am proprietor."



Hayagrīva: Because I will it to be mine... He says because I come first and will it to be mine, it is mine.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. By force you can do that, you are doing that.



Hayagrīva: And I can relinquish it because I can will to relinquish it.



Prabhupāda: But first thing is that if you have got will, but reasonable will, first of all you have to think, "Who has kept this gold here? I am claiming proprietorship simply by coming here, but who has kept this gold here?" Why don't you think like that? What kind of human being you are?



Hayagrīva: A final point: he believed that man should have the freedom to choose his occupation. He writes, "In the Platonic state, subjective freedom was of no account. Since the..."



*Prabhupāda: That means there are already different occupations, and you have freedom to select one of them. But the occupation is already there, created by somebody else. You have the freedom to make a choice. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: [Bg. 4.13] "I have created these four principles of occupational duties." Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Now, if according to your qualification you can make a selection, "I, I like this occupation." But the occupation is already there. Just like a shopkeeper, he has got varieties of goods. The customer goes, he can say, "I like this." "All right, you can take it. This is the price." Similarly, the occupational duties are already there. The (indistinct) are already there. That is created by God. Now you can select one of them according to the price you can pay. That is the...



Hayagrīva: Not according..., not according to birth?



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: Not according to birth?



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: He thinks... He says in many Oriental states this assignment... He says, Hegel, in tle Platonic state, in Plato's Republic, the government assigns each individual his occupation. In Oriental states, in..., for instance in India, he says this assignment results from birth. The subjective choice, which ought to be respected, requires free choice by individuals, and he considers this the basic right.



*Prabhupāda: No. The thing is just like Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. This is going on all over the world. The occupation is that just like engineering occupation. So who can become engineer? Guṇa-karma, one who has acquired the qualification of engineering profession and is actually acting as engineer. That is wanted. Guṇa-karma. Kṛṣṇa never says, "Birth" But later on, because an engineer trains his boy as engineer, so naturally he becomes also engineer. Formerly, as we understand from the history of Ajāmila... He was a son of a brāhmaṇa, and he was being trained up as a brāhmaṇa. That was the system. Not that because he has born in the brāhmaṇa family he becomes brāhmaṇa. No. He has got the chance of being trained up as brāhmaṇa by the brāhmaṇa father. So it became later on as caste, by birth, because naturally a brāhmaṇa father trains his son to become brāhmaṇa. But when the brāhmaṇa's son becomes a cobbler, that does not mean he is still brāhmaṇa. That we find from the... Tadīya lakṣaṇaṁ dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. If a brāhmaṇa's son has become a cobbler, he should be called a cobbler, or a cobbler's son has become a brāhmaṇa, he should be called a brāhmaṇa. Not by the birth. But it became a qualification of birth because formerly it was easy, because he is dealing with his father and father is brāhmaṇa, so automatically, fifty percent he becomes brāhmaṇa, and fifty percent by training, then he becomes complete brāhmaṇa*-by association, by family. So it is not that a cobbler cannot become brāhmaṇa if he also acquires the qualification of a brāhmaṇa. Nārada said, tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. If he has already acquired the qualification of brāhmaṇa then he should be called a brāhmaṇa. Not that a brāhmaṇa's sons becomes qualified as a cobbler, tannery expert, and he remains brāhmaṇa. That is not. He has no knowledge. That means if you have studied all the Vedic literature, he could not say like that. The injunction is tadīya lakṣaṇaṁ dṛśyeta. The qualification, if you find elsewhere, then he should be designated by the qualification. A doctor's son, instead of taking up the life of medical life, if he becomes engineer, so he should be called engineer, not doctor. Tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35], it is clearly said. So the, Kṛṣṇa's plan, that "I have created four divisions according to quality and work," cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma [Bg. 4.13], that is final. One must have the qualification and he must work. If... He must have the brahminical qualification and he must act as a brāhmaṇa. Simply theoretical will not do. Just like we are giving sacred thread to a person who is born in low family, but we are training him also to act as a brāhmaṇa. Not that you take the sacred thread and go be..., work as cobbler. No. You must be engaged in Deity worship, brāhmaṇa's work, business, then you are a brāhmaṇa. Otherwise you are not a brāhmaṇa.



*Hayagrīva: In a very often*-quoted passage Hegel writes, "God is only God insofar as He knows Himself. His self-knowledge is more over His consciousness of Himself in man and man's knowledge of God, a knowledge that extends itself into the self-knowledge of man in God."



Prabhupāda: That, if he accepts that, then why not man takes knowledge of God from God? Then his knowledge is perfect. Why he should speculate?



Hayagrīva: He considers man to be essential to God.



Prabhupāda: But he, he has accepted God as man...



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: So to possess the knowledge of God, the best duty of man is to take knowledge from God about God. I know myself, that he says, that God knows Himself. So if God knows, that is natural. I know what I am. So if you take knowledge of me from me instead of speculating, that is perfect knowledge. So here, in the Bhagavad*-gītā, the God is explaining Himself. So if you simply take the knowledge given by God, that is your perfected knowledge of God. Why you are speculating? You are wasting time. Take the knowledge from God about Him, and then you have perfect knowledge. Why should you speculate? Suppose I am studying you, I am speculating, "Well, Hayagrīva may be like this, he might have so much money, he might have so much bank balance, he is living like that," this is speculation. But if I say, "Hayagrīva, what you are?" you say, "I have got this, I do like this," that is my perfect knowledge. Why shall I speculate?



Hayagrīva: Well then you wouldn't be able to write so many books.



Prabhupāda: Huh? No. When I have got perfect knowledge, then I can write.



Hayagrīva: Then.



*Prabhupāda: Without perfect, whatever I write, that is nonsense. That is nonsense. That is the difference*-paramparā system. All these philosophers, they are simply talking nonsense, and whatever we are writing, there is meaning. Why? Because we are studying God from God. This is our perfection. We are not speculating about God. That is the difference. Now we are expanding my knowledge so that you can understand. That is my writing. But my basic principle is that I have understood God from God, not by speculation. That is my qualification. If I know God from God, then my knowledge about God is perfect. Then whatever I write, that is perfect. Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **, that therefore all scriptures accept the guru, spiritual master, as directly the Supreme Lord. Why? He does not speak anything nonsense. That is; therefore he is called servitor God. He is serving God, giving the same knowledge as God has given to him; *therefore he is perfect. Sākṣād*-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva **. So knowledge, if we, if we take God, what is God, if we understand from God, then our knowledge of God is perfect. Simply by speculating you cannot become perfect. That is not possible. So if Mr. Hegel...?



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: He is Hegel now, what? What is his...?



Devotee: Hegel.



Hayagrīva: Hegel.



Prabhupāda: Ah. So if he accepts God and he inducts a man, the man should take knowledge from God about God. The his knowledge of God is perfect. He should not speculate. And if he has no such source of taking knowledge from God, then his conception of God is also false. If he has got actually the conception of God, then he should take knowledge from God what He is. That is perfect knowledge. He was talking of Oriental knowledge. This is Oriental knowledge: they know who is God and they take knowledge from God about God. But here, Occidental, they speculate about God. What they will know about God? Whatever they speculate, that is imperfect, because he is imperfect.



Hayagrīva: He equates idea, reason, God, and the Absolute very much like the Greeks.



*Prabhupāda: Everything is there, but if you take knowledge from God, then that is perfect, and if you make your own ideas-you do not take the ideas of God*-that is imperfect.



Hayagrīva: He does say reason is also infinite form, that which sets this material in motion...



Prabhupāda: This is, this is, this is real reasoning, that "I am imperfect or limited. How I can speculate on the unlimited? So better let me learn from the unlimited about the unlimited." That is perfect knowledge.



Hayagrīva: One final point is that he sees the worship of animals and plants to be a form of pantheism. He refers to Indian religion...



Prabhupāda: No. But Indian, that he does not know; still he speaks. That is the most regretful situation.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: If God says that "Amongst the plants I am this plant..."



Hayagrīva: Tulasī, Tulasī.



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: So the Hindus, they worship, follow God's instruction. That is they have got in a certain sense. God has said that "Amongst the plants, I am this plant, so worship." They are not worshiping all, every plant.



Hayagrīva: This isn't..., then this difference from the pantheists, who would worship, say, everything.



*Prabhupāda: They, they will worship any nonsense, but here it is God consciousness. God has said that "I am this," so "I am...," I will worship. That is God, God consciousness. God has said. He has complete faith in God. Just like praṇavaḥ sarva*-vedeṣu: "Of Vedic knowledge I am the oṁkāra." Therefore they follow: oṁ tad viṣṇu paramaṁ para..., every mantra is followed by. How he has known oṁkāra is God? That God has said: praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. So God is giving instruction how He should be realized. So they are following that. They are realized; they realize actually. And what is the use of speculating? He will never understand God because he is speculating with his limited knowledge. God is unlimited.



Hayagrīva: So although God is all animals and all plants...



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...



Hayagrīva: Although God is everything, we concentrate on these particular...



*Prabhupāda: No. That is especially prohibited. Mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni: [Bg. 9.4] "Everything is in Me, but I am not there." Just like the body of a dog. The body is on the soul; *the platform is the soul. Otherwise there is no meaning of the body. So the body of the dog is depending on the soul of the body. But that does not mean the dog's body is God. Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. Find out this verse, mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. They are taking just as Vivekananda, they, the body of a daridra, poor man, is resting on God, Nārāyaṇa...



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: ...but he is taking the body as Nārāyaṇa. That is his knowledge, imperfect. He is saying daridra*-nārāyaṇa. God has become daridra. And he is taking the consideration of the body; therefore he is thinking God has become daridra. The body of a daridra, poor man, is depending on Nārāyaṇa, but he is taking the body as Nārāyaṇa. He is such a fool, and he is going on. Ah. Find out...



Devotee:



mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

*jagad avyakta*-mūrtinā

*mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

[Bg. 9.4]



Prabhupāda: Read the purport.



Devotee: Translation. "By Me in My unmanifested form this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them."



Prabhupāda: "On service of his origin." What is? On His Majesty's service. What is that slogan?



Devotee: "On His Majesty's service."



*Prabhupāda: Ah. (indistinct) That does not mean the..., Her Majesty is there. The Majesty, Her Majesty's power, order, is everywhere. Mat*-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni. The government is acting with the seed on Majesty's service, but that does not mean Her Majesty is there. This is simultaneously one and different, acintya-bhedābheda. Majesty is there because the order is there, but still personally he is not there. So the, another, that begun already, is that daridra, in daridra Nārāyaṇa is there, but not that daridra is Nārāyaṇa. But he has no vision. He is talking of this daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is mistake. Nārāyaṇa is there undoubtedly, but not that daridra is Nārāyaṇa. This is impersonalism, Māyāvāda mistake. That is pantheism.



Hayagrīva: Pantheism. So when Kṛṣṇa says, "I am sex life according to dharma," then this means that He can be perceived in this way.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you, just like garbhādhāna ceremony. That is not a secret thing. That garbhādhāna ceremony is that "I am going to beget a child. I am going to have sex with my wife for begetting a Kṛṣṇa conscious child," so that Kṛṣṇa is remembered. While having sex, if he remembers, "Kṛṣṇa, give me a child who will be Your devotee," that is the duty of the father. So this kind of sex is Kṛṣṇa. And if we have sex for enjoyment, that is not. That is demonic. That is the, Kṛṣṇa says...



Hayagrīva: But Kṛṣṇa is present nonetheless.



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is always present, but if when you hold a ceremony, garbhādhāna ceremony, that "I am going to have sex with my wife for begetting a Kṛṣṇa conscious child," then you remember Kṛṣṇa. And at the time of sex, the mentality of the father and mother, that is acquired by the child. There is rules and regulation for garbhādhāna ceremony, and in the Bhāgavata you will find that as soon as a..., the..., one gives up the garbhādhāna ceremony, he is a śūdra. So who is observing this garbhādhāna ceremony at the present moment? Therefore everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra*-sambhavāḥ. Everyone is born as śūdra. The father and mother gave birth as śūdra. So this birthright of brāhmaṇa is no longer in this day. Even they falsely claim, "Because I am born of a brāhmaṇa father I am brāhmaṇa," that śāstra will not support. Whether garbhādhāna ceremony was performed? And nowadays, especially, who knows that he is son of a brāhmaṇa? The woman is intermingling with everyone, and who has given birth of the child? Whether he is actually a brāhmaṇa's son, a śūdra's son, who knows it? So how he can claim, by birthright, a brāhmaṇa? That is not possible. Therefore everyone is śūdra. But he can be trained as a brāhmaṇa. That is pāñcarātrikī-vidhi. We are following this pāñcarātrikī-vidhi, not Vedic vidhi. Vedic vidhi is different. Pāñcarātrikī. By training. He has got little tendency, little fire, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. All right, fan it, make the fire bigger than this. But if he gives up the firing process, he remains fire, but he will go unfinished. (Sanskrit), that a small seed, you sow it and regularly pour water... Just like Govinda dāsī introduced this Tulasī. She is responsible for introducing Tulasī in the Western countries.



Hayagrīva: So the Tulasī, the actual... To get back to the original point, the actual philosophy behind reverence for the Tulasī plant or the cow or the sexual ceremony, the basis then would be remembrance of Kṛṣṇa, that these can bring remembrance of Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Because Kṛṣṇa says so, but...



*Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa says satataṁ cintayantaṁ mām: "Always thinking of Me," that is the process of consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha*-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65]. "Always think of Me." So somehow or other you think of Kṛṣṇa, then you will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, purified.



Hayagrīva: But you shouldn't think of Kṛṣṇa in any..., in another way, for instance a palm tree or...



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Then He is giving indication that "Amongst the trees I am this." So you take it.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. He said that "I am the taste of the water." So you are drinking water always. The taste which quenches your thirst and you feel satisfaction, that is Kṛṣṇa. Now if you follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction, "Now I am drinking water. Now I am feeling satisfaction. Now this satisfaction is Kṛṣṇa," then you remember Him.



Hayagrīva: Hegel mistook this for pantheism.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: Hegel mistook this for pantheism.



Prabhupāda: He has mistaken in so many ways. (Sanskrit) Just like our... Not Pradyumna. If somebody has boils all over the body, then where it will be operated? Better kill this body. (laughing) So he has got so many boils, this Hegel and Segel, all, because they are speculators. They have no definite knowledge. Speculators cannot have definite knowledge. Therefore our Professor Dimmock has said, "Here is definite definition of *Gītā*." What is that? Just see. Then it is so. He has appreciated it. You cannot see, of the...



Devotee: They only put two lines of what he said in there. He says this...



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is his word.



Devotee: Oh.



Prabhupāda: Read it all.



*Devotee: "Definitive English edition of Bhagavad*-gītā. By bringing us a new and living interpretation of the text already known to many, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has increased our own understanding manyfold."



*Prabhupāda: That is a definite, not vague, speculative. That is the difference between my translation and others. Therefore I have given the name "As It Is." So we will be no spoke or speculation. As soon as you speculate, you are rejected. Therefore others are seeing some danger that "This Bhaktivedanta's..., this Bhagavad*-gītā As It Is accepted, then where we are?"



Hayagrīva: Everybody wants to speculate.



*Prabhupāda: That's all. We are, I have stopped it. They cannot speculate on the words of Bhagavad*-gītā. That is our mission. Won't allow you to speculate. You are finite, imperfect. How you can by speculation give the unlimited, infinite? How it is possible? That is reasonable. Waste of time, misleading others. Aṇḍhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. You are blind; *how you can show others, blind men? They are already blind. You open your eyes, then take the leadership of the blind. Ajñāna*-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. That is our process. That's all right. (end)





SCHOPENHAUER.HAY



Arthur Schopenhauer



Hayagrīva: This is Schopenhauer. For Schopenhauer happiness is inactive satisfaction, inactivity, nirvāṇa. The will to live is the irrational urge...



Prabhupāda: What does he give..., what does he explain about the nirvāṇa? What?



Hayagrīva: The will to live is the irrational urge that brings about all suffering. And his is a philosophy of extinction. Now in his first book, The World Is Idea, he ascribes to the philosophy of māyā, like a Māyāvādī. He writes, "The *Vedas* and *Purāṇas* have no better simile than a dream for the whole knowledge of the actual world, which they call the web of māyā, and they use none more frequently." From this Schopenhauer concludes that life is a long dream. "What is this world of perception besides being my idea? Is that of which I am conscious only as idea exactly like my own body, of which I am doubly conscious, in one aspect as idea, in another aspect as will?" So from this he concludes that life is a projection of the will.



Prabhupāda: This material life?



Hayagrīva: Material life is a projection of the will.



Prabhupāda: Yes, he has read it. It is taken from Indian... It is called vāsanā. Vāsanā means desire. So that desire, material desire, but the living entity cannot be desireless. Desireless..., nirvāṇa means material desires finished. But because living entity is eternal spiritual being, he is, he has got spiritual desire. Now it is covered. The desire is there, desire is constant companion, but because it is materially covered, we are thinking this temporary world as reality, and it is not reality; *therefore it is changing. We are having different types of desires according to the body we get, and the soul is transmigrating in this material world from one body to another, and he is creating a certain type of desires, will. And to fulfill that will he is getting a different type of body by the Supreme Will. He is willing, and the Supreme Will, God, Kṛṣṇa, understanding his will, giving him facility to accept a certain pattern of circumstances, body, to fulfill his particular desire. That is going on. Therefore this vāsanā, or will, is the cause of his material existence, constantly changing, and on account of changing will he is changing body. This is the complication of material existence. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to teach the living entity that as living being you must have desires. If your desires are stopped, then you become like stone. So you have to cleanse this desire, diseased form of desire. That is bhakti. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Now the desires are according to the upādhi, according to the body. A man gets the body of American, he thinks, "America is my home. American nation, they are my brother. American upliftment is my business," so on, so on. And as soon as it is changed, you are Chinese man, again he thinks, "I am Chinese." Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. He has to change. He has got the material body of a dog, he is barking, "I am dog. This is my business, to bark." So this is all desires. So these desires are temporary. By one desire I get one body, then I desire another body, another body, it is going. So therefore in one sense it is dream, that factually he cannot fulfill the desires, like dream. Yes. There are so many different circumstances. They are all temporary. So this, at night you dream, it is say for one hour or two hour. We..., nobody sees one kind of dream for two hours. Say even two hours, then finished, then another dream. So this change of body is also like a big dream. At night we dream, we forget everything about daily activities, and again when the dream is finished, again we come to this body and we do some things. So in that sense all material activities, subtle or gross, they are manifestation of different desires. Therefore the Māyāvādī philosophers, they say brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The dreamer is fact, but the dream is false. That is one sense it is right. So our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is the same, that the dreamer is the living entity and the dream is temporary. Therefore the dreamer has to be brought to the real, spiritual platform so that these material dreams, either in day or night, they can be extinguished. That is nirvāṇa.



*sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ

*tat*-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

[Cc. Madhya 19.170]



When we give up these dreaming facts and come to the real fact, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is bhakti. So activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, called bhakti, that is reality.



Hayagrīva: Schopenhauer writes, "Every keen pleasure is an error and an allusion, for no attached wish can give lasting satisfaction."



Prabhupāda: That is...



Hayagrīva: "And moreover, every possession and every happiness is but lent by chance for an uncertain time..."



Prabhupāda: Mm.



Hayagrīva: "...and may therefore be demanded back the next hour. All pain rests on the passing away of such allusion. Thus both arise from defective knowledge."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "The wise man therefore holds himself equally aloof from joy and sorrow, and no event disturbs his composure."



Prabhupāda: The other day, yesterday, I was explaining that this side good, this side bad, the same thing. Stool is stool. So this side or that side. But here in this material world, they are accepting this temporary or false, whatever you call, platform, and we are manufacturing in that false platform, temporary platform, "This is good, this is bad." Why? Where is the good and bad? They are all temporary, or false. We don't say false; *we say temporary. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they say false. So that is also stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that the pains and pleasure of this material world, it is experienced by the (indistinct). The spirit soul does not touch this. It is different. He is not concerned with this material, but he is illusioned that "This pains and pleasure is mine." Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises in the Bhagavad-gītā that this pains and pleasures, simply touching the skin, body. But I am not this body. That is the first instruction. The soul is not this body; therefore this pains and pleasure is on account of this body, material body. So Kṛṣṇa said,



*mātrā*-sparśās tu kaunteya

*śītoṣṇa*-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyinaḥ anityāḥ

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

[Bg. 2.14]



So these are not reality. They come and go in due course, and we are, being too much absorbed in this material body, we feel pains and pleasure. But I am not this body; therefore one should be intelligent, that "This pains and pleasure is due to my bodily concept of life, and they come and go. Why should I bother about it? If I feel pain, let me tolerate and do my own business." That's all.



Hayagrīva: Schopenhauer's second book was entitled The World Is Will. He writes, "My body is the objectivity of my will. Besides will and idea, nothing is known to us or thinkable. But if we narrowly analyze the reality of this body and its actions, we find nothing in it except the will." And he goes on to state that "The genitals are properly the focus of the will, and consequently the opposite pole of the brain, which is the representative of knowledge. The former, that is the genitals, are the life sustaining principle and share an endless life to time. In this respect they were worshiped by the Greeks in the phallus and by the Hindus in the liṅgam, which are thus the symbol of the assertion of the will. Knowledge, on the other hand, affords the possibility of the suppression of willing, of salvation through freedom, of conquest and annihilation of the world."



Prabhupāda: Therefore that is bhakti. Sarvopādhi, this willing... Why? This willing is (indistinct), because this willing is according to the body. So I get one body and will again, we get another body. So I am willing, but I am. So I have now identified with this willing situation. That is my trouble. When I understand that I have nothing to do with this material world, with this, the production of my will, material will, and I am spiritual, so when I will spiritually, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Materially willing means I get different types of body, that's all. That is dream life. But what he says?



Hayagrīva: Well, he sees that the basis of life is sex.



Prabhupāda: He has to...



Hayagrīva: That this, that the will is asserted mainly due to sex.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is material life.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: That is material life. That we say always that yan maithunādi*-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Here, those who are addicted to material world, their basic principle is maithuna, sex intercourse. So this strong desire for sex, that will continue so long you are in the material existence, because that is the center of all pleasure. But when we get taste of Kṛṣṇa pleasure we can give up this. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. By same superior pleasure they give up this inferior.



Hayagrīva: Well as, as to the nature of the world, Schopenhauer is vague, but he sees material life as basically irrational and whimsical.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. Therefore you are changing body. Material mind is not fixed up; rejecting and accepting. This is going on. That Māyāvāda philosophers say as well. The Buddhists also say this material pains and pleasure is account to the material combination. It does not say material combination of this body. Soul is different, but he did not say because during his time they could not understand it. So he did not say that the..., there is soul, but he simply said that this body is combination of material thing; that is the cause of pains and pleasure. So dismantle it. Let earthly part of the body go to earth, watery part of the body, let it... Nirvāṇa, that is. Then I become zero, śūnyavādī. Because he does not get any information of the soul, he takes account of the body. Analyze the body and it is composition of earth, water, air, fire, like that. So when it is dismantled, then where is pains and pleasure? That is his philosophy, śūnyavāda, make it zero.



Hayagrīva: He sees the pleasure of the world as ultimately frustrating. Eternal becoming endless flux characterizes the revelation of the inner nature of will. Finally, the same thing shows itself in human endeavors and desires, which always delude us by presenting their satisfaction as the final end of will. As soon as we attain to them, they no longer appear the same. Therefore they soon grow stale or forgotten, and though not ultimately disowned, are yet always thrown aside as vanished illusions.



Prabhupāda: So this is going on. He is getting, therefore, different types of body.



Hayagrīva: He says we go..., there's a constant transition from desire to satisfaction and from satisfaction to a new desire, a rapid course of which is called happiness, and the slow course sorrow, and does not sink into that stagnation that shows itself in fearful boredom that paralyzes life. So it's this flux from desire to satisfaction that characterizes the will's activities in the phenomenal world. But for Schopenhauer, outside of all of this flux there is only..., the only solution is nirvāṇa or extinction.



Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. One has to study that willing and satisfaction of the willing. So behind this willing and satisfaction of willing there is the person who is willing. He does not take that person into consideration.



Hayagrīva: No.



Prabhupāda: He takes only that the willing and satisfaction willing, that is the only business. But he does not see the person who is willing. That is his defect.



Hayagrīva: Supreme Person.



Prabhupāda: Not Supreme Person.



Hayagrīva: The individual.



Prabhupāda: The individual, who is put in this temporary world, willing and satisfaction, but he is reality behind this willing and satisfaction. [break] So Schopenhauer's defect is that he does not see the, there is a person behind this willing; the individual soul, he is willing. So when he stops this flickering willing, then what is next, that he does not see. Nirvāṇa, stopping willing, of this nature of willing, temporary, one kind of willing, one kind of satisfaction, again another kind of willing... Behind this willing whimsically there is the spirit soul. So when the spirit comes to his real understanding of identification, that willing is pure willing. This willing is contaminated willing, material willing. So simply one should not be satisfied by stopping this whimsical willing, but when he comes to the real willing of the real person, that is spiritual life.



Hayagrīva: He says, "Voluntary and complete chastity is the first step in asceticism or the denial of the will to live. It thereby denies the assertion of the will, which extends beyond the individual life and gives the assurance that with the life of the body, the will, whose manifestation it is, ceases."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Is this kind of extinction the purpose behind chastity?



*Prabhupāda: Behind the willing activities there is a person who is willing. So simply by negation of this temporary willing will not help him. He has to will reality. That is eternal willing. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has been willing his sense satisfaction, material world, because he does not know there is another field of willing. So the same willing, when he will satisfy the senses of the Supreme, that is his eternal willing. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Because when he analyzes, comes to the real knowledge, he finds himself that he is eternal servant of God. As such, when willing will be concentrated how to serve God, that is his real position of life*-eternity, knowledge and bliss. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Hayagrīva: Although it appears that Schopenhauer does not believe in God, although his stand appears atheistic, he writes, "If a man fears death as his annihilation, it is just as if he were to think that the sun cries out at evening, 'Woe is me, for I go down to eternal night.' Thus even already, suicide appears to us as a vain and therefore a foolish action. When we have carried out our investigation further, it will appear to us in a still less favorable light."



Prabhupāda: Investigation of father, that means God.



Hayagrīva: The what?



Prabhupāda: Investigation, he says?



Hayagrīva: Oh, "When we have carried out our investigation further."



Prabhupāda: Further.



Hayagrīva: Yes, further, further. "More," "When we have investigated..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "...further, it will appear to us in a still," that is suicide, "that death is not extinction."



Prabhupāda: Then after death there is life. As soon as there is life, there is desire, willing.



Hayagrīva: Yes. He says that so; therefore that's no solution. He says that death and life are integral.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: That they are comp..., they go together, death...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...and life.



*Prabhupāda: Because the will is there, therefore death is not stoppage of life. He gets another life, tathā dehāntara*-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. So this proves that the life or the person who is willing, desiring, he is eternal, but he does not know what should be his eternal willing. That is his defect. So we are teaching this. His eternal willing is that he should always will to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then he will be happy.



Hayagrīva: As to the identity of life and death, he says, "The wisest of all philosophies, the Indian, expresses this by giving to the very God that symbolizes destruction, death, by giving, I say to Śiva, as an attribute not only the necklace of skulls but also the liṅgam, the symbol of generation, which appears here as the counterpart of death, thus signifying that generation and death are essentially correlatives which reciprocally neutralize and annul each other." So it's not death that is the solution.



Prabhupāda: Then what is?



Hayagrīva: What dies will be born again.



Prabhupāda: So what is the solution?



Hayagrīva: The solution is the annihilation of the will to live.



Prabhupāda: How it is possible? So long the living entity is alive, he, he will will, some sort of willing. So that means the willing party, the living being, he is eternal, and the willing, this activity, has to be purified. Then his life will be happy. Willing cannot be stopped, because he is eternal. But he is wrongly willing; therefore he is unhappy. When he will come to the position of willing rightly, then he will be happy.



Hayagrīva: According to him, the man of knowledge is not disturbed in any condition. He says, "Such a man would regard death as a false allusion, an impotent specter which frightens the weak but has no power over him, who knows that he is himself the will of which the whole world is the objectification or copy, and that therefore he is always certain of life and also of the present." He goes on to say that he could not be terrified by an endless past or future in which he would not be, for this he would regard...



Prabhupāda: Then why does he want nirvāṇa? This is contradictory.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: One side he says nirvāṇa, and other side is that it is continued. When he could not understand the Indian philosophy, he is trying to address in his own way.



*Hayagrīva: He speaks of Bhagavad*-gītā. He says, "Kṛṣṇa thus raises the mind of His young pupil Arjuna. When seized with compunction at the sight of the arrayed host armies, he loses heart and desires to give up the battle in order to avert the death of so many thousands. Kṛṣṇa leads him to this point of view, and the death of those thousands can no longer restrain him. He gives the sign of battle." But was it actually Kṛṣṇa's assurance of immortality that brought Arjuna to fight?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Immortality. So what is his philosophy of the immortal living being? As he is immortal, his willing business is also immortal. If he accepts the living being as immortal, how he can stop*-nirvāṇa-his willing?



Hayagrīva: He seems to have no other solution other than the suppression of willing.



Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Suppression willing, that is not possible. He has to change the quality of willing; *then he will be happy. And that is bhakti. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. The process of willing should be purified. Then he will be happy. And the process of purifying the willing is bhakti, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], chanting and hearing of the pastimes, all about the Lord. That will purify him. He is missing the point that he is individual, accepting that life is eternal, and still he wants, prefers this nirvāṇa. But he does not know what is nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means this kind of whimsical willing is troublesome. He has to stop this whimsical willing. He has to come to the standard willing. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Hayagrīva: He looked on the Indian philosophy and religion as basically a philosophy of the denial of the will, and he gives several examples of religious..., of suicide as a religious act. He says especially when it...



Prabhupāda: That is, that is Māyāvāda. That is not... He did not study Indian philosophy and religion perfectly well. He simply has taken some portion of the Māyāvāda philosophy or Buddha philosophy, but he did not know about Vaiṣṇava philosophy.



Hayagrīva: But he gives the example of...



*Prabhupāda: Although he has touched Bhagavad*-gītā...



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: ...he did not study Bhagavad*-gītā thoroughly, that in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that if you, by your living, what is called, knowledge, if you simply try to have full knowledge about Kṛṣṇa, then his willing, this material willing is purified, and after giving up this body he goes back to home, back to Godhead. That he has not studied. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Either he did not study Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly or he could not understand for want of real spiritual master.



Hayagrīva: He couldn't understand devotion to Kṛṣṇa, that's for certain.



*Prabhupāda: Because he did not study Bhagavad*-gītā as it is recommended. The recommendation is that one should go to guru. And what kind of guru? Who has seen the truth practically. That he did not do. He is simply speculating on his own experience, and although everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, he could not see it. That is the defect.



Hayagrīva: As an example of suicide, he gives the..., he says that at the procession of Jagannātha in 1840, eleven Hindus threw themselves under the wheels and were instantly killed. And he also mentions the satī rituals of the woman throwing herself into the sacrificial fire, the fire of her husband's funeral pyre.



*Prabhupāda: This is not suicide. This is... Our life is continuation, but on account of impure understanding we are getting different types of body and you are suffering different varieties of miseries. So this suicidal, this is not suicidal, that voluntarily accepting death, so that by dying, if he thinks of the spiritual life, he gets it. Just like Kulaśekhara, he has got a poetry that... In the Bhagavad*-gītā it is stated, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajanty ante: [Bg. 8.6] we get next life according to the desire at the point of death. So generally, when death takes place, one sometimes remains in coma, all the bodily functions becomes defunct, he dreams in different ways and so on, so on. So he cannot dream or think independently. Therefore sometimes the intelligent class, they think that "If I meet death in sound health, then I can think of my next life, go back to home, back to Godhead, and I achieve it. Because at the time of death my thinking will be taken into consideration. So if by thinking of Jagannātha if I die, then I go back to Jagannātha."



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is not suicide. That is voluntarily accepting death so that immediately he can return back to the spiritual world.



Hayagrīva: And that works?



Prabhupāda: What?



Hayagrīva: That's an actual...?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: Caitanya Mahāprabhu*-of course, that's different-threw Himself in the ocean, but that wasn't, that was probably...



Prabhupāda: No, no, that is an ecstasy.



Hayagrīva: That was different.



Prabhupāda: Different.



Hayagrīva: He speaks of the Indian religion, which demands the greatest sacrifices and which has yet remained so long in practice in a nation that embraces so many millions of persons cannot be arbitrarily invented superstition but must have its foundation in the nature of man. And he says that the religion has endured for more than four thousand years, despite the fact that the Hindu nation has been broken up into so many parts. But he sees the religion basically as a religion of the denial of will. But does the religion have its foundation in the nature of man?



Prabhupāda: Yes, the denial, both the... There are two kinds of sects: this Māyāvādī and the Vaiṣṇava. So both of them know that this material world is flickering, and sometimes they say it is false, unreal. So there is another life; that is spiritual world. So the Māyāvādī philosopher, their spiritual life means to merge into the Brahman effulgence, and the Vaiṣṇava philosopher to go back to Goloka Vṛndāvana, Vaikuṇṭha, where God is situated, and become His associate person. So both the ideas, spiritual ideas, that is attained after death. What does he say that is good about Hindus? He says that denial...



Hayagrīva: He sees it basically as a denial of the will.



Prabhupāda: Yes, but denial of the will for material happiness. So we will not deny willing, that willing for spiritual happiness. That is required. As you deny something, you must accept something; otherwise... You cannot remain in the neutral position. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nirvatanta. When you get a better position, then you give up this willing for lower position.



Hayagrīva: The... He speaks of the sannyāsī, who lives without a dwelling and entirely without property, who is advised not to lay down often under the same tree least he should acquire a preference or inclination for it above other trees. The Christian mystic and the teacher of the Vedānta philosophy agree in this respect also, that they both regard all outward works and religious exercises as superfluous for him who has attained to perfection. Isn't this the viewpoint of the Māyāvādī, and doesn't Kṛṣṇa recommend the lighting of the sacrificial fire even after one has attained perfection?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, yajña*-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājam. Because if he gives up this ritualistic ceremony, then there is chance of falling down. So even though he is liberated, to keep his position secure he should continue these three things: sacrifice, charity, and austerity.



Hayagrīva: He speaks of sleep. He said, "The need for sleep is directly proportionate to the intensity of the brain life, thus the clearness of the consciousness. Those animals whose brain life is weak and dull sleep little and lightly, for example reptiles and fishes. Animals of considerable intelligence sleep deeply and long. Men also require more sleep the more developed both as regards quantity and quality, and the more active their brain is. The more completely awake a man is, the clearer and more lively his consciousness, the greater for him is the necessity of sleep, thus the deeper and longer he sleeps."



*Prabhupāda: Those who are ignorant and materially covered, they sleep more. Those who are spiritually enlightened, they sleep less. Sleep is the necessity of the body, not of the soul. So those who are advanced in the platform of spiritual identity, they do not require sleeping, as we find from the life of Rūpa Gosvāmī. Nidrāhāra*-vihārakādi-vijitau **: they conquered over sleeping, eating, mating. That is spiritual life. To sleep is waste of time, so those who are actually interested in spiritual life, they adjust life in such a way that almost they sleep nil.



Hayagrīva: Arjuna was praised as Gudakesa?



Prabhupāda: Guḍākeśa, who has conquered over sleeping.



Hayagrīva: It appears that Schopenhauer recommends about eight hours of sleep a night, and Kṛṣṇa says not too much or too little. But what is recommended in terms of sleep, just concretely?



Prabhupāda: Sleep should be avoided, but that is not possible. Therefore it should be adjusted to the minimum. Just like Gosvāmīs, they are sleeping not less, not more than two hours. Even we hear about some karmī, just like Napoleon, he was also not sleeping. He was taking rest on the back of the horse. I do not know whether it is so.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: But I know about Gandhi. He was sleeping when he is parking his car, because he was so busy.



Hayagrīva: (laughing) He gives some examples of men, of philosophers who slept a great deal. Maybe because they speculated so hard they had to sleep more.



Prabhupāda: No. Sleeping too much is bad in all circumstances. So, stop the machine. Stop this machine. Tomorrow is good. [break]



Hayagrīva: In The Ages of Life, Schopenhauer writes, "A complete and adequate notion of life can never be attained by anyone who does not reach old age, for it is only the old man who sees life whole and knows its natural course. It is only he who is acquainted, and this is most important, not only with its entrance, like the rest of mankind, but with its exit too, so that he alone has a full sense of its utter vanity, while the others never cease to labor under the false notion that everything will come right in the end.



Prabhupāda: I could not follow. Old man is perfect?



Hayagrīva: No. But an old man can see the course of life, can see life in its entirety, the ages...



Prabhupāda: As far as different, old men have got different experience. We have seen in Western countries old men, they still follow the path of sense gratification. So where is his experience? Unless there is training, simply to become old man is not sufficient. Training is required. Old man, actual old man should take renunciation. That is Vedic plan. At the end of life one should become a sannyāsa and completely devote his time and energy to understand and serve God. So unless there is training from the very beginning as brahmacārī, simply by age one is not mature. That is not correct.



Hayagrīva: He says it's customary to call youth happy and age the sad part of life. This would be true if it were the passions that made a man happy. Youth...



Prabhupāda: Happy, happiness to the modern standard means sense gratification. So that sense gratification continues even in old man. So actually he requires training and acquirement of knowledge. There is a word in Sanskrit, vidya tam (indistinct). One can become old man even without age. That means it is knowledge that is counted, not the age.



Hayagrīva: There's an expression, "The old fool."



Prabhupāda: Old fool, yes.



Hayagrīva: An old goat.



Prabhupāda: Yes. If he is not educated properly, he remains a old fool. Yes.



Hayagrīva: He says, "In one of the Vedic *Upaniṣads*, the natural length of human life is put down at one hundred years, and I believe this to be right. I have observed, as a matter of fact, that it is only people who exceed the age of ninety who attain euthanasia, who die, that is to say, of no disease, apoplexy, or convulsion, and pass away without agony of any sort. To come to one's end before the age of ninety means to die of disease, in other words, prematurely."



Prabhupāda: Yes, the maximum age in this millennium is hundred years, but formerly they used to live for thousand years. Before that they used to live for ten thousand years, and before that they used to live for one hundred thousands of years. So nowadays we don't think even they are going up to hundred years, even not ninety years.



*Hayagrīva: Sixty, sixty*-seven.



*Prabhupāda: Sixty*-seven is the average. The more one becomes sensuous, the duration of life is lessened. That is the law of nature.



Hayagriva: So that's all on Schopenhauer. (end)





DARWIN.HAY



Charles Darwin



*Hayagrīva: This is Darwin. Darwin's conception of evolution rests on the contention that there is a real genetic change from generation to generation. In other words, Darwin rejects the platonic igos. Igos is the Greek for idea, type or essence. There is no human igos, human type or essence. There are no fixed species. This is in contradistinction to the platonic idea that the species exist in essence or, as Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad*-gītā, bījam, "I am the seed of all existences." Darwin would not recognize any bījam, or seed, particular type for any species. Rather, he sees shifting, evolving physical forms constantly changing.



*Prabhupāda: The different forms are already there. Just like the form of monkeys also there, the form of man is also there, other animals, other birds, beasts. So he has no clear conception how the evolution is taking place, neither he has any idea about whose evolution. He simply takes account of the body. A body never evolves. It is the soul within the body*-he evolves, transmigrates from one body to another. Just we see that a child becomes a boy. The..., if the child is dead, it no more evolves. So it is the soul that is concerned. The soul is within the body, and he desires and evolves. That is Vedic conception and that is life. For example, if a man is within an apartment, the man desires to change the apartment to another apartment, it does not mean that the apartment evolves, but the man desires a change, and he goes to different apartment. That is (indistinct). So Darwin has no such conception. He has described the idea of evolution from the Vedas in his own way.



*Hayagrīva: At first Darwin was a Christian, but his faith in the existence of a personal God dwindled, and he finally wrote, "The whole subject"*-that is the subject of religion, or God-"is beyond the scope of man's intellect. The mystery of the beginning of things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic. I have steadily endeavored to keep my mind free, so as to give up any hypothesis, however much beloved, as soon as facts are shown to be opposed to it." So he didn't argue against Plato or Descartes or Kant or any other philosopher, but he simply presented what evidence he had amassed during a five..., only a five-year voyage, on a British freighter, oh, from 1831 to 1836. But what is considered important is that his book, The Origin of Species, marks what they call the emancipation of science from philosophy.



Prabhupāda: What is that, emancipation?



*Hayagrīva: That is to say he simply presented what material he found*-that is the fossils. He investigated certain life forms on these island during this trip and theorized about evolution.



Prabhupāda: That is philosophic; that is not scientific. He found something and he based his thesis on that. He cannot find out all the bodies, because there are, at the end, some section, some sect they burn the body. So how he can get information of their body, burned? So his theory is not at all scientific. It is always defective.



*Hayagrīva: He spent the rest of his life writing about the material he gathered during this five*-year voyage, which is a very short time. And according to his theory of natural selection, the best and the fittest survived. If this is the case, the race will necessarily steadily improve.



Prabhupāda: What does he mean by survive? What is the meaning of his dictionary, "survive"? Nobody survives.



Hayagrīva: Well, by that he means that the strong pass on their hereditary characteristics to their offspring, and that the race..., no individual survives, but that the race improves. But isn't this contradicted by the *Vedas*? In the present Kali... For instance, Arjuna's physical powers, prowess, was much greater, and that was, what, five thousand years ago. So isn't, instead of improving, instead of the race improving in strength and other qualities, isn't it actually...



Prabhupāda: They are degrading.



Hayagrīva: ...degenerating. What is the cause of man's physical, mental and spiritual deterioration in the succeeding yugas?



*Prabhupāda: That is education. Every individual person, he is a soul, and he has got a particular type of body. Especially in the human body he requires education. What is this animal and what is higher than human race, these are Vedic description. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and the body is being evolved. The body is machine, and the individual soul desires and he gets a suitable body made by material nature under the order of God. This is Vedic idea, as it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. God is existing within the core of everyone's heart, and the individual soul is desiring something, and upon the order God he is given a machine made by material nature. So this is evolution, and even a man, although he is human form of body, he can again degenerate to animal form of body according to his desire. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. He has to change the body, and the body is changed according to his work and desire. In the animal kingdom they have also desires, but they are under the laws of nature changing body, and one is given the chance to become a human being, and then he may desire, and according to his desires he gets the next body. If he likes, he can go higher forms of life, and if he degenerates he goes lower form of life.



Hayagrīva: But as the yugas progress, the human body itself, doesn't it become more degraded?



Prabhupāda: What do you mean by degraded? He has got human body, but by his work and by his desire he can get next life a demigod's body or a dog's body. That will depend on his activities. Human body is meant for understanding God and act accordingly to go back to home, back to Godhead. But if he does not utilize this human form of body properly, if he remains on the platform of animal propensities and degenerates, then he goes..., he can become next life a dog, a cat. There are two things: elevation or degeneration.



Hayagrīva: In The Descent of Man Darwin writes, "The belief in God has often been advanced as not only the greatest but the most complete of all the distinctions between man and the lower animals. It is, however, impossible to maintain that this belief is instinctive in man. The idea of a universal and beneficent creator does not seem to arise in the mind of man until he has been elevated by long, continued culture."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. The culture is important. If he gets the chance of cultured association, then he elevates. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. If he, according to his cultural life, he can go to the higher planetary system, he can remain where he is, he can degrade, and he can go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore culture is very important in human form of life.



Hayagrīva: He further writes, "He who believes in the advancement of man from some low organized form will naturally ask, 'How does this bear on the belief in the immortality of the soul?' " He says, "At what precise period does a man become an immortal being?" That is to say, he doesn't know at what stage the immortal soul inhabits the species.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, soul is always important. He is put into different bodies. That is the defect of Darwin's knowledge. He does not know about the soul. So the existence of soul, to understand this is the first education. One who does not know this, he remains animal, sa eva go*-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13], if one continues the bodily concept of life without any understanding of the soul. And it is very easy to understand that the child is becoming boy, a boy is becoming young man. So the soul is there, and we remember that "I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man." So I continue to exist, the bodily changes, and this is confirmed in every Vedic scripture, and that is the beginning of knowledge. If one does not understand how the soul is changing body, he remains on the level of cats and dogs.



Hayagrīva: He does..., he says he doesn't know at what point the soul enters, but the soul is in anything that moves. Is that correct?



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: Even a...



Prabhupāda: The soul moves.



Hayagrīva: ...bacteria for instance, or an ant.



Prabhupāda: So ant moves because there is soul; the bacteria moves there because there is soul. Similarly, the man moves because there is soul. An animal moves because there is soul.



Hayagrīva: And every soul is immortal.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: So that's all, on Darwin. [break] This is an appendix to the Darwin. In 1925 the Tennessee legislature passed the Butler Act, forbidding the teaching of Darwinism, Darwinian evolution, in the public schools of that state. In May, John Thomas Scopes, a science teacher at Dayton High School, consented to be the defendant in a court test of the law. He was arrested and indicted by a Grand Jury and stood trial on July 1925.



Prabhupāda: Why he was arrested?



Hayagrīva: For teaching Darwinism. For teaching that man descended from the apes.



Prabhupāda: So he was teaching, and the government arrested him?



*Hayagrīva: The government, the American government, arrested, yes. The Tennessee legislature arrested him. He was arrested and defended by Clarence Darrow, famous trial lawyer, and the prosecutor was William Jennings Bryan, who was a thrice defeated Presidential candidate. So they discussed evolution and religion and how they could co*-exist, and Scopes, who was teaching Darwinian evolution, claimed, "All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship almighty God according to the dictates of his own conscience. No human authority can in any case whatever control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and that no preference should ever be given by law to any religious establishment or mode of worship."



*Prabhupāda: This is, this worship and the concept of worship, if actually one believes or knows, so the real worship is that which pleases God. If you manufacture... Just like I want a glass of water, and if my servant gives me a glass of hot milk, is that worship? Worship means what I want, if you give me, then I am satisfied. But if I want a cold glass of water, you give me..., if you think, "No. Milk is better than water," so that, will that satisfy me? So these concocted ideas of worshiping will actually satisfy God, that is wrong theory, that one can worship God according to his own dictation. That means his God is fictitious. He has no idea of God. And he can concoct ideas. But actually if there is God, one should worship according to the dictation of God. But if he does not know what is God, what is the dictation of God, then he is a rascal. What is the use of his so*-called worship? It may be to some extent a sentiment, but that is not worship. If you want to worship God, you must worship God according to His dictation. That is real worship. How he can manufacture the way of worship?



Hayagrīva: The prosecutor...



Prabhupāda: What will be the answer? If you want to worship God, you must worship according to the dictation of God. If you have no such dictation, if you have no idea of God, then how you can worship God? You can worship a ghost, according unto you. If freedom is given to your conception, then you can worship a dog instead of God, because you do not know what is God and what God wants you to do. So without the conception of God, real, how one can worship God by whimsical ideas?



Hayagrīva: This has always been a very touchy subject in the schools.



Prabhupāda: This is the real subject.



Hayagrīva: In the schools, now in the United States, the schools are not even allowed to mention God, not even allowed to mention God.



Prabhupāda: That means that is frustration. They could not get the idea of God. This is frustration. This kind of conclusion means they try to understand God, but there was no proper understanding of God, so they have given up the idea of understanding God. So frustration, rejection by frustration is not success. The best thing is they should learn about God from God and do accordingly. That is success. So we are preaching the message of God, and people should take to it to understand God and worship Him. That is success.



Hayagrīva: Bryan, the prosecutor, chastised the Darwinists for not telling us where life began and at the same time speaking of evolution. He says, "They do not dare to tell you that it began with God and ended with God. Darwin says, 'In the beginning of all things is a mystery insoluble by us.' He does pretend to say how these things started." And he goes on...



Prabhupāda: That means imperfect knowledge. We say that material world is creation, and within the material world the living entities are allowed to act. So the living entities coming from God; therefore He says bījo aham. So God... Just like our life begins from the womb of the mother, but the father gives the bīja. The mother's womb cannot produce itself; then there was no need of father. The father gives the bīja and the mother gives the body. Similarly, the living entity, part and parcel of God, is put into the material nature, and according to his desire the material nature gives him a body. That is the beginning. Very simple thing. But these people, on account of insufficient knowledge they cannot understand what is the beginning, either Darwin or the opposite. This is the beginning. The material nature is created by God, and the living entities, who are part and parcel of God, desire to enjoy this material nature, so God impregnated material nature with the living entities. This is the beginning.



Hayagrīva: Bryan had the...



Prabhupāda: Who can say against this statement of *Vedas*? This is the beginning of life. But none of them, both the contending parties, had clear idea what is the beginning. This is the beginning.



Hayagrīva: Yes. Bryan had difficulty in attacking Darwinism because he based his arguments...



Prabhupāda: Darwin says he does not know the beginning.



Hayagrīva: He based his arguments strictly on the Bible, Bryan. This is not Darwin, but the prosecutory.



Prabhupāda: What they... What is the beginning of Bible?



Hayagrīva: And he, he was ridiculed, Bryan, for his fundamental..., for his fundamentalism. The Bible says, "And God said let us make man in our image," etc. "God created man in His own image, and the image of God created He him," etc., and the Bible fixes the creation at about six thousand years ago, but science fixes, oh, ancient civilizations of China and India, oh, six thousand, seven thousand years ago, much... And the *Vedas* deal with a much, much broader time span.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: So...



Prabhupāda: So it is not the question of...



Hayagrīva: ...it was extremely difficult for Bryan to maintain any kind of prosecution with these...



*Prabhupāda: But because both, we say that both of them are ignorant about the beginning. So if both of them are ignorant, so either you say six thousand, seven thousand, or six million, this is all imagination. It is not fact. But the six thousand or seven thousand, that is not the fact*-millions and millions of years. But the fact is this, that God created this cosmic manifestation, and He impregnated the living entities to appear in different types of body according to the soul's desire. That I have already explained. The soul... "Man proposes; God disposes." Not only human form of life but all the animal forms of life, they are also from the very beginning. Not like Darwin's theory that there was no human form of life in the beginning. That is a wrong theory. All the forms of life were there, and the, actually the body is external; within the body there is the soul. So the body is created by material nature and the soul is part and parcel of God. This is the real idea. So how they can refute this idea if they have no idea about the beginning of life?



Hayagrīva: It was very difficult on the basis of the Bible. The *Vedas* date the creation back, oh...



Prabhupāda: That it is a question of time, and it is the beginning.



Hayagrīva: The beginning of the creation was when? No...



*Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of when. It may be seven thousand years or seven millions of years, but the beginning should be taken like this, that God created this cosmic manifestation. And wherefrom the living entities came? That also came from God. That is explained clearly in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that this material creation is composition of earth, water, air, fire..., like that, that this is also God's energy. The ingredients of this material world coming from God, that is called prakṛti and pradhāna. He is the creator. And then the living entities, they are also coming from God. So this material energy is explained as inferior energy, and the living entity is explained as superior energy, both of them coming from God. So the beginning of life simultaneously. It is not that matter later on developed to become life. That is a wrong theory.



Hayagrīva: So, so much... It's the end of Darwin. [break] ...Thomas, Thomas Henry...



Prabhupāda: In that case, all defect is that nobody could ascertain the beginning of life, but here is the solution. The beginning of life is from the very beginning of creation.



Hayagrīva: Simultaneous creation.



Prabhupāda: Simultaneously. That we see practically. That pregnancy, in the beginning of the body that is the beginning of life also. No that first of all one becomes pregnant and then the life comes. You have got a daily experience. Rather, the life is there, therefore the pregnancy is there. Is it not? But they say, modern rascals, that the, the body develops to a certain extent and then the life comes. So before the life coming, if the body is destroyed there is no killing. Is not that the theory at the present moment, they are killing child?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: But these foolish persons, they do not know that the body grows provided there is life; otherwise it does not grow. So life and body together. (end)





HUXLEY.HAY



Thomas Henry Huxley



Hayagrīva: This is Thomas Henry Huxley. Huxley felt that the main difference between man and the animals is the ability to speak. Now, is...



Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of another nonsense. Everyone speaks in his own language. What does he..., what he means by speak?



Hayagrīva: But isn't speech, which is the articulation of the intellect, the primary difference between man and the animals in the sense that is it not through words that one can come to understand God?



Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but the animal has a, his own language, as the human being has his own language. So why does he say that? When he speaks, he speaks from the very beginning in his own language.



Hayagrīva: Well he, he, he mentions speech as being "Intelligible, rational speech..."



Prabhupāda: They have got rational speech.



Hayagrīva: "...that accumulates and organizes experience which is almost lost with the cessation of indi..., with every individual life in other animals." In other words, man has a history due to language, but animals may be able to articulate certain basic facts to one another, but they have no culture or history.



Prabhupāda: Then those who speak in Sanskrit language, they are only human beings; all other animals. If he says like that, Sanskrit language is the oldest...



Hayagrīva: It is the oldest.



Prabhupāda: ...mother of all language, and one who speaks in Sanskrit, he is only perfect, all other animals, according to his theory. But Mr. Huxley does not speak in Sanskrit.



Hayagrīva: Well, we'll see. He read quite a bit. I don't know if he read in Sanskrit or English, but he read quite a bit of the *Vedas*.



Prabhupāda: No, why does he say that the language, he gives that...



Hayagrīva: Probably not.



Prabhupāda: ...everyone has his language. It does not mean that the animals have no language. They have got their own language. The birds have their own language, the Englishmen have their own language, the Indians have their own language. So there are different varieties of life, and each one has his own language.



Hayagrīva: Although Huxley was called...



Prabhupāda: Language is not the important. The education is important. A developed human being can take real education, while the animals are not able to take. That you can define. It is not the question of language. Knowledge can be imparted, in particular knowledge, a language, just like we are imparting Vedic knowledge in English. So it is not the language, it is the knowledge. But the animals cannot take the knowledge of God. That is their defective. But a human form of body or a human being, it doesn't matter in what language he speaks, but if the knowledge of God is properly imparted in him, then he can understand. The dog cannot understand. That is the difference.



Hayagrīva: Huxley, although an evolutionist, and although he was called Darwin's bulldog, he differed with Darwin, especially on the theory of the survival of the fittest. He believed in the survival of those who are ethically the best.



Prabhupāda: That is..., that can be said fittest. "Best" and "fittest," where is the difference?



*Hayagrīva: He says the strongest, the most self*-assertive, tend to tread down the weaker.



Prabhupāda: First thing is what do they mean by survival?



Hayagrīva: Well, the continuance of a culture.



Prabhupāda: That is going on. Every culture is continued. The Vedic culture is there and other cultures are also there. It is continuing.



Hayagrīva: He says the influence of the cosmic process on the evolution of society is greater the more rudimentary its civilization. Social progress means a checking of the cosmic process at every step, and the substitution for it of another, which may be called the ethical process.



Prabhupāda: So the difference...



Hayagrīva: The cosmic process is the process of creation, maintenance and ultimate annihilation. He says this can be checked by a..., an ethical culture.



*Prabhupāda: The cosmic process cannot be checked, but the cosmic process is continuing in different modes. That is called tri-guṇa. One process is the process of goodness, another process is the process of passion, another process is process of ignorance. So in the process of goodness, real advancement goes on, and ultimately one has to transcend the process of goodness also and come to the platform which is all-good. In the material world, whichever process you accept, it is mixed, both goodness, passion and ignorance. It is very difficult in the material way of life to keep the process pure. Therefore the real process is gradually bring the being or the soul to the platform of goodness and then transcend also goodness and keep him or let him remain in the actual platform of pure goodness. That is wanted. That is really progress. That pure goodness is bhakti. When the transaction is only with God-there is no other transaction-that is pure goodness. That is survival of the fittest. When one comes to that platform of pure goodness, he survives. Otherwise nobody survives. When... Everyone has to change the body*-this body to that body, that, tathā dehāntara-prāp... But one who comes to the pure goodness platform, he understands God, then he hasn't got to change. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is survival; otherwise there is no meaning of survival. They do not know what is this survival. Survival means that when the soul remains pure, in his original position, does not change body, that is survival. In the spiritual world there is no more change, so that is survival. And in the material world there is change. That is not survival. So they do not know what is the meaning of survival. If there is change, there is no survival. Everyone has to change the body.



Hayagrīva: Well, that sort of negates the rest of this.



Prabhupāda: So survival is explained?



Hayagrīva: The rest of this doesn't survive (laughing).



Prabhupāda: (laughs) Now what do you think, individually?



Hayagrīva: Oh, I..., he said Huxley looks on civilization as something of an attempt to give order to nature. "Civilization might be defined as a complex ethical understanding between men enabling as many men as possible to survive."



Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Nature is so strong that either you become Huxley or Einstein or somebody else, you must die. That is nature's law. You cannot dictate nature. The nature will go on dictating to you; *then you must die. That is the... There is no question of survival under the regulation of the material nature. There is no... When you go above the dictation of the material nature, then you survive. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. When one realizes Brahman understanding, then he survives; otherwise there is no survival.



Hayagrīva: Well, Huxley is typically British. He wrote in...



Prabhupāda: He is a British or Frenchman?



Hayagrīva: Huxley, no, he was English, Englishman.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: He says, "By the Ganges ethical man admits that the cosmos is too strong for him..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "...and destroying every bond which ties him to it by ascetic discipline he seeks salvation in absolute renunciation."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He says..., but he says, "This attempt to escape from evil has ended in flight from the battlefield." He doesn't advocate this for an Englishman. In a typically British manner he quotes Alfred Lord Tennyson. He says, "We are grown men and must play the man strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."



Prabhupāda: Rascal, at last you die. (laughter) You do not like to yield, but the nature kicks on your face and says you must die. That he does not like.



Hayagrīva: Well, at any rate he's dead now, so...



Prabhupāda: So therefore he is..., he is not surviving. He was...



Hayagrīva: He admits, he says, "This seems..."



*Prabhupāda: Either you be Englishman or Frenchman or this man, you cannot survive. You have to succumb under the dictation of the superior nature. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that*-I think Huxley read Bhagavad-gītā; *he does not know*-that,



prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

*ahaṅkāra*-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]



*This kind of conception, that "I shall survive, I am Englishman," this is a false egotism and bewildered soul. Whatever he may be, Englishman or this man or that man, he must die. That is the law of nature. So intelligent man first of all makes provision "How I shall not die." That is real business of human being. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, that if one simply understands Kṛṣṇa, then he survives; otherwise one has to die. There is no doubt. Nobody can...



Hayagrīva: Huxley did appear to have..., to adhere to the doctrine of transmigration. He says, "The doctrine of transmigration constructs a plausible indication of the ways of the cosmos to man. Every sentient being is reaping as it has sown, if not in this life then in one or other of the infinite series of antecedent existences of which it is the latest turn." In Evolution and Ethics he writes about brahman and ātmān and liberation. He says, "The earlier forms of Indian philosophy agreed with those prevalent in our times, and supposing the existence of a permanent reality or substance beneath the shifting series of phenomena, whether of matter or of mind, the substance of the cosmos was brahman, that of individual man ātmān, and the latter, that is ātmān, was separated from brahman only by its..."



*Prabhupāda: That is also not. He is not separated. He is, brahman and ātmān, they are existing, co*-existing, and that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the chapter "Kṣetra and Kṣetrajña." The body is the field, and the ātmā, individual soul, is the owner of the field or the worker in the field. So it is also said there is another owner, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ vidhi. As the individual is working in the body, similarly, there is another soul working in the body. So what is the difference between the two? The two is different that the individual soul knows only about his own body, but the other soul, Supersoul, He knows everything of every body. That is the difference. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body. But this Supersoul, He knows the pains and pleasure of this body, of that body, of millions and millions of bodies. That is the difference between the two souls. But the two souls are there. One is called Supersoul, paramātmā, and the individual soul is called ātmā. So ātmā and paramātmā are there. The difference between them is that ātmā knows about his own body and the paramātmā knows everything of all bodies. That is the difference.



Hayagrīva: His understanding was the understanding of the Sankarites, that the ātmā is imprisoned in the body. When the man is enlightened and sees apparent reality as mere illusion, the bubble of illusion will burst, and the freed individual ātmān will lose itself in the universal brahman.



Prabhupāda: Then that does not mean that the ātmā becomes the paramātmā. Just like a drop of water, you put into the sea, it mixes with the sea. It is not mixing. Now suppose it is mixing, but that does not mean that the drop of water has become the sea. He is mixed with the seawater, but that, that does not mean he is the sea. He was not sea before, and after dropping him in the sea, he remains as what he was, but he is mixed up in the sea. Just like an airplane is flying, you see, and going higher and higher, and going very high you do not see. That doesn't mean the airplane is lost. You do not see. So these Sankarites' proposal is defective. Just like a green bird enters a tree but you do not see the bird anymore. You simply foolishly think that he has become one with the tree. But that is foolishness. He keeps his individuality, but your defective eyes cannot see him anymore. The Sankarite theory is like that, a defective understanding, that the individual soul merges into the Supreme. He keeps always his individuality. The foolish man cannot see how he has merged or existing.



Hayagrīva: He says, "There is no external power which could affect the sequence of cause and effect which gives rise to karma. None but the will of the subject of the karma which could put an end to it." Now by willing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, the individual allows Kṛṣṇa to put an end to his karma.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Is that...? So Kṛṣṇa is called Mukunda.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So our idea is(?) that is Mukunda.



Hayagrīva: So Huxley has no idea that, of the, of this.



Prabhupāda: I said, I said this, that Kṛṣṇa is therefore called Mukunda.



Hayagrīva: You said that.



Prabhupāda: Yes. I think this is my statement.



Hayagrīva: Yes. No, this isn't Huxley.



Prabhupāda: Huxley said...



Hayagrīva: Huxley says, "This salvation of liberation from karma was to be attained through knowledge and by action based on that knowledge." The supernatural, in our sense of the term, is entirely excluded.



Prabhupāda: Yes. We are acting under certain designation, that just like Mr. Huxley said a few minutes before, that "We are Englishmen." So this is designation. So, so long you will work under designation, there is no freedom. Because under false impression that "I am Englishman," "I am Frenchman," "Let me work in this way," that means you are entangling himself, yourself into some other way, so that today you are Englishman, next day you may be Frenchman or dog's man, that you are entangling yourself. But when you give up this designation, that "I am no man, no other's man, but I am Kṛṣṇa's man," then you will save yourself. Otherwise... Therefore to become Kṛṣṇa consciousness, conscious, is actual platform of freedom from karma.



Hayagrīva: So that there's no question of independent liberation?



*Prabhupāda: No. Therefore that is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yajña-arthāt karma. Only for yajña or Kṛṣṇa you should work. Yajña-arthāt karma, anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. Otherwise you are entangled. This is freedom, to work for Kṛṣṇa; *then you are not under entanglement. This is..., there are many practical examples. Just that a soldier, he is killing, his business is killing, and the more he kills he gets recognition. But as soon as he kills one man on his own account, he is murderer. Just like when... The soldier's business is to kill, and so long he is killing for the satisfaction of his state, of the government, he is getting recognition medals. The same soldier, as soon as he kills one man for his own sense satisfaction, he is a murderer, he is to be hanged. This is the karma*-bandhanaḥ. The business the same-killing. But one killing is on the order of the state and one killing is for his sense gratification. So killing business is the same, but the position is different. Similarly, when you act for Kṛṣṇa, that is not karma-bandhanaḥ; *that is freedom. And when you act for yourself, that is karma*-bandhanaḥ. That is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā throughout. Arjuna was thinking, "Killing, and suffer the sinful activities," because he was thinking on account of himself. But when he understood that "I am induced to kill on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants this fight," then he accepted Kṛṣṇa's proposal. That is not karma-bandhanaḥ. That is not killing. One has to understand this.



Hayagrīva: Now there is one interesting point that Huxley makes in Evolution and Ethics. He tries to tie in the theory of karma with the theory of evolution.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: He writes in this way: "In the theory of evolution the tendency of a germ to develop according to a certain specific type, for instance of a kidney bean seed to grow into a plant having all the characters of Phaseolus vulgaris," that is a kidney bean, "that is its karma. The snowdrop is a snowdrop and not an oak tree*-and just that kind of snowdrop-because it is the outcome of the karma of an endless series of past existences."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Karma... That is called karma*-bandhanaḥ: one after another, one after another, one after another, it is going on. So if this evolutionary process one comes to the form of human being, then he is allowed the discrimination to decide whether he shall continue in this karma-bandhanaḥ process or he should stop his karma-bandhanaḥ process and surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa then his karma-bandhanaḥ process stopped, and if he does not, then he is again put into the karma-bandhanaḥ process by the laws of nature.



Hayagrīva: So he does appear at least a little closer than Darwin, because Darwin didn't recognize any of this transmigration at all.



*Prabhupāda: Darwin, he is all through. Everyone is more or less. Unless one has got the right knowledge... Why Darwin? Everyone is under false impression. Therefore our proposition is that you take right knowledge from the right person, Kṛṣṇa, then you are perfect. And if you go on speculating-you speculate in one way, I speculate in another way*-it does not mean that we are intelligent person.



Hayagrīva: The, Huxley, it was Huxley who coined the word "agnostic," as the opposite of gnostic, of church history. The word gnostic is "one who follows in the gnostic tradition of church history."



Prabhupāda: According to Vedic, nāstika word is there, nāstika.



Hayagrīva: Gnostic.



Prabhupāda: Nāstika means who does not believe in the *Vedas*.



Hayagrīva: Ol, this is different: gnostic.



Prabhupāda: Nāstika, it is gnostic.



*Hayagrīva: This is gnost..., (sic:) N*-O-S-T-I-C. Gnostic is one in the gnostic tradition, or in the church tra..., in the tradition of the Christian Church, and ag..., he used the word a-nost, agnostic. So this word was coined by... Coined.



Prabhupāda: What does, what is the meaning of ag?



Hayagrīva: That means, well, like there's dharma and there's adharma, that is, er, "not." "Not," a, meaning "not."



Prabhupāda: Against, against.



Hayagrīva: As theism and atheism.



Prabhupāda: That means against; ag means against.



Hayagrīva: Yeah, against. But according to him, agnosticism holds that man shouldn't assert what he calls a truth without logically satisfactory evidence.



Prabhupāda: We say "without any authority."



Hayagrīva: When Huxley became a Darwinist he rejected a supernatural God and the Bible. In For Argument from Design... He believed in, previously he believed in a Christian God as the designer, but he believed that Darwin's theory gave this Christian conception its death blow. He did not accept a pantheistic God, like Spinoza did, as being identical... Excuse me. He did accept a pantheistic God, like Spinoza did, as being identical with nature. That is, he saw God as nature, and he believed in the divine government of the universe. He believed that the cosmic process is rational, not random...



Prabhupāda: How it becomes rational?



Hayagrīva: ...but he rejected a personal God concerned with morality.



*Prabhupāda: That is his defect. The nature is dead body, matter. So how it can be rational? Just like this table is a dead wood. How it can be rational? That is nonsense. The carpenter is rational, who has made the wood in the shape. So he says the nature is rational. Nature is dead matter. How it can be rational? Therefore there is a rational being behind the nature. That is God. This, the wood, is dead. The wood, out of its own accord, cannot become a table. The carpenter is shaping the wood into table. That is rational. Therefore behind the dead nature, the rational being is God. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā. I think Mr. Huxley is supposed to have read..., understand he has given some comment on the Ramakrishna Mission Bhagavad-gītā, but he has not studied Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly.



Hayagrīva: Oh, that's his son, his grandson.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: That's Aldous, Aldous Huxley.



*Prabhupāda: Uh*-huh.



Hayagrīva: And this is Thomas Henry Huxley.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: It's a very famous English family of many...



Prabhupāda: So anyway, we...



Hayagrīva: That's his grandson was, uh...



Prabhupāda: So this Thomas Huxley, how he says that the nature has rational, has knowledge? We don't find. A dead stone, maybe big mountain, but has it got rationality? How does he say that the nature has rationality? What is the basis?



Hayagrīva: Well, it's the pantheistic, it's the same pantheistic contention that God is..., God is impersonal and made the tree grow.



*Prabhupāda: Maybe. "Impersonal," "personal," that we shall consider, but God is sentient. He is all*-pervasive. That is accepted. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. That's all right. But God is not like the dead matter, who has no sense. We don't find the dead matter has got rationality. The rationality behind the dead matter is God.



Hayagrīva: That's it on Huxley. (end)





BERGSON.HAY



Henri Bergson



Hayagrīva: This is Henri Bergson, additional notations. [break] Śrīla Prabhupāda? If you could move. I don't think it would be good to have something between me and the microphone, because it might... Nothing between me and the microphone.



Hari-śauri: Well, can we do this?



Hayagrīva: Close? Oh, all right. Bergson maintained that God's reality can only be intuited by mystical experience. The creative effort is of God, if it is not God Himself. Knowledge of God leads to activity not passivity.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge of God is activity. Just like bhakti, we are twenty*-four hours active, not that we are meditating on. So it is service. God says that anyone who preaches this message of Bhagavad-gītā, that is activity. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, that you, all of you, become guru. To become guru means activity, to train the disciples. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is full of activity for giving, rendering service to God, Kṛṣṇa. It is activity.



Hayagrīva: The word..., the word "mystic" is not a very clear word. It can mean so many different things. When he says God's reality can only be intuited by mystical experience, one doesn't really know what this means.



Prabhupāda: No, mystical... One who does not know God, for him it is mystical, but one who knows God, he takes orders from God. This is defined, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167], means favorably working for satisfaction of God. But if one's idea of God is not clear, he thinks it is mystical, but one who has got clear idea of God, clear order from God, then it is not mystical but it is practical.



*Hayagrīva: He believed that mystics*-he uses the words "mystics," not-mystics participate in God's love for mankind and aid the divine purpose.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the...



Hayagrīva: This is the real meaning of creative evolution.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is in ignorance due to long separation from God. In the material world the living entity has forgotten his relationship with God; *therefore his activities are only sense gratification, like the animals. And when he is given lesson, instruction how to become God conscious, how to love God, that is activity, and that is real life. Otherwise it is animal life. The religion is a kind of faith, sentiment, but when the religious system is understood on the basis of good logic and philosophy, that becomes perfect understanding of God. Without philosophy, religious understanding is sentiment. That sentiment does not help anyone very much. It continues for some time, then people become disinterested in the matter of religion. So religion means, as it is stated in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, how one has learned to love God. Then it is religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. Adhokṣaja means we do not see God eye to eye at the present moment in our physical condition, but still, hearing about Him, we can develop our dormant love for God. That is real religion.



Hayagrīva: Bergson saw the greatest obstacle to this creative evolution to be the struggle with materialism, and he felt that politics and economic reforms cannot help matters.



Prabhupāda: No. These are different subject matter. It... Politics or economic development can help, provided it is guided properly. Otherwise, if the politics, economic development is aimed at understanding God and our relationship with God, then politics is all right. Otherwise it does not help at all. But this, so far Vedic civilization is concerned, the society is divided into eight division, varṇa and āśrama. So the sannyāsī, the brāhmaṇa, they are meant for educating the others to develop dormant God consciousness. And the kṣatriyas, they are to support these teachings of God consciousness because that is the objective of human life. But unfortunately, they have forgotten everything. They think simply taking care of the body and live comfortably and enjoy sense gratification. That is animal civilization; that is not human civilization.



Hayagrīva: He felt that the spirit of mysticism must be kept alive by the fortunate few who know God until such time as a profound change in the material conditions imposed on humanity by nature should permit in spiritual matters of a profound transformation.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Actually they are trying to change the whole situation. The perfect social order is, as I have already mentioned it, that is perfect society when they have learned how to love God, without any motive, as natural behavior between the father and the son, and the son and the father, mother and the son. That is real perfection, perfection of society. Godless society is animal society. It is not to be adored.



Hayagrīva: What could..., what must he mean by "until such time as a profound change in the material conditions imposed on humanity by nature should permit in spiritual matters of a profound transformation?" What kind of...



Prabhupāda: Transformation.



Hayagrīva: ...change in material condition would permit...



Prabhupāda: Material condition is the four principles of bodily demands: eating, sleeping, sex and defense. This is material condition. So when the human society... Just like at the present moment they are simply interested in these four things, how to eat nicely, palatable dishes, or very nice table, chair and so on and so on. But after all, this is eating. And similarly, living condition. Formerly people used to live very humbly. Now they are living very, very big, big skyscraper building. But that is living. Similarly sex. Formerly also a crude society, also they have sex. The animals, also they have sex. And to make gorgeous arrangement for sex, to make the women easily available or freely available, nicely dressed, this is also simply sex. Similarly defense. Either you defend with crude weapons or you atom bomb, this is defensing.



Hayagrīva: So how are these conditions going to change?



Prabhupāda: Change means along with these primary necessities of the body one should understand what is God, what to do for God instead. That is change. That can be done, simply by training.



Hayagrīva: But how are they going to change in order to bring about a profound spiritual transformation?



*Prabhupāda: This is spiritual following. Just like we are doing. We are also not neglecting the bodily necessities of life, but our main business is how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this is not supported by the state or the leaders of the society. They think they are unnecessary because they are animals. So that is the... If the leaders, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tad tad eva itaraḥ janaḥ [Bg. 3.21], that is, every leading man accept that this is necessary. Just like we say "No illicit sex." So if the state helps, it can stop immediately. "No meat*-eating": the state can immediately do it, "No slaughterhouse." If somebody says that it is enforcement for a person who wants to eat meat and the state has stopped, no. State at least can do this, that state is not going to maintain slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, you can kill an animal at your own house, but state is not going to commit these sinful activities, statewise. That is changed in every respect. No more breweries. State cannot maintain the manufacturing of liquor. If anyone individual wants, he can prepare for himself, but he cannot sell, he cannot induce others to take. He can for his personal (indistinct), he can take. In that case, state is giving liberty, "If you want eating meat, so do." But that is not encouragement; that is discouragement. That is Vedic injunction. Vedic injunction is that yes, you can have sex, but get yourself married properly like gentlemen and ladies do. But sex will not be allowed unrestricted intermingling of men and women and prostitution, brothels. That state has to stop. In this way whole thing can be revolutionized, and the society will be completely in human civilization and God consciousness. That is wanted.



Hayagrīva: Bergson felt... He was... Bergson was optimistic in that he felt that eventually the mystics, through love, will help mankind back to Godhead.



Prabhupāda: He has used that word "back to Godhead"?



Hayagrīva: Well, no, but "back to God."



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: I put "head" there.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real purpose of human life. Nature gives him the opportunity in the evolutionary process to get the human form of body. Now, here is a chance. He can read books, he can read *Vedas*, he can take instruction from the spiritual master. These opportunities are there. So that should be encouraged. That is human civilization. Simply to keep him in darkness, and that he is body and bodily necessities of life is the only business, it is a very suicidal civilization. That is not civilization. It is animal status of life.



Hayagrīva: Within the world Bergson sees nothing but constant, unceasing change. He even sees ego change. He says, "If our existence were composed of separate states with an impassive ego to unite them, for us there would be no duration, for an ego which does not change does not endure, and a psychic state which remains the same so long as it is not replaced by the following state does not endure either." So he sees the psychic state of the individual in the ego and all that the ego contains as cognitively changing.



*Prabhupāda: This is false ego, that "I am this body." So it has to be changed by education, that "You are not this body." Then when he understands that he is spirit soul, then the activities of the spirit soul begin, mad*-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. That is stated in Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, that first of all he has to understand that he is not this material body; *he is spirit soul. That is the beginning of Bhagavad*-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Within this body the soul is there, and that soul is Brahman, spiritual. People, if they do not understand this, so they are in the animal status of life. But if he understands that he is not this body, then his struggle for existence, to maintain the body, stops. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. That it is, when he understands that he is not this body, then his unnecessary endeavor to keep the body in comfortable position without the, without executing the business of spiritual life, then he is kept in darkness. So when one understands that he is spirit soul, so how to elevate the spirit soul to the highest perfection, that will be the main business. So that is wanted. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Then he understands that "Not only I am spirit soul, but everyone is spirit soul," then equal, equipoised. Every spirit soul should be given the chance of perfect understanding, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then activities of devotional service. If everyone is engaged in devotional service, then he gradually comes to the state of loving God, prema. Premā pumartho mahān. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended perfection of human life is how to raise oneself to the platform of loving God. That is perfection. Otherwise it is not perfect society.



*Hayagrīva: Concerning remembering and forgetting, Bergson writes, "The cerebral mechanism is arranged just so as to drive back into the unconscious"*-by unconscious they mean the subconscious-"almost the whole of his past, and to admit beyond the threshold only that which can cast light on the present situation or further the action now being prepared. In short, only that which can give useful work." So that, in other words, man utilizes only those memories or that knowledge which is immediately useful, and in this way man can function in the world. What is the role of Kṛṣṇa in this, as the arranger of this cerebral mechanism?



Prabhupāda: Cerebral mechanism, that is a machine. Just like this microphone is a machine. It helps speaking loudly. It has nothing..., machine has nothing to do with the voice, but it helps the voice louder so we can listen, so far the machine is concerned. Actually the voice is different. Therefore our Vedic śāstra is called voice, śruti. So if the śruti, the voice, vibration of this voice is proper, then the machine can help us to understand that. But if there is no voice, what is the use of the machine? Just like dead body: the same brain is there, what is the use? The same ear is there. So it is not the brain that helps; *it is the voice, it is the instruction which helps. Therefore we take instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So that is the Kṛṣṇa's point. Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. When people becomes rascal, without any God consciousness, and the so*-called demonic leaders keep the society in darkness, dharmasya glānir bhavati, at that time, to stop these demons talking nonsense, and to raise the devotees who are interested, Kṛṣṇa comes. That is Kṛṣṇa's coming. Then He leaves behind Him instruction of Bhagavad-gītā so that His devotees can preach for the benefit of the society. So it is not the brain; it is the voice, the instruction, which is important. So a human being has got this nice machine and he can take. But if the leaders are blind, they do not know what is the use of this brain, then it is useless. [break]



*Hayagrīva: Concerning remembering and forgetting, we were speaking of the cerebral mechanism. In Bhagavad*-gītā doesn't Kṛṣṇa say that He is the arranger of the cerebral mechanism which causes one to remember Him and forget Him? He says, "I bring... I make one remember and one forget."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He is the supreme power. He can do that. So if somebody wants to forget Kṛṣṇa persistently-in spite of Kṛṣṇa's instruction, devotee's instruction, one does not care, he persists to become a demon*-Kṛṣṇa is within the heart of everyone, so He gives him chance to become more and more so that he completely forgets his relationship with God. That is explained in another place, kṣipāmy ajasram anta yoniṣu. In the Sixteenth Chapter. (aside:) You can find out. So that this rascal, life after life, remains a rascal. That is Kṛṣṇa's punishment, that he is kept in perpetual darkness. But it is the mercy of Kṛṣṇa's devotee, a Vaiṣṇava, he is more compassionate, that "This rascal, he is in perpetual darkness. Let me try to relieve." Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, vaiṣṇava ṭhākura tomāra kukkura. "Vaiṣṇava devotee, kindly accept me as your dog." Because as Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava sevā: "Unless one who gets the shelter of a Vaiṣṇava, he will perpetually remain in darkness." (aside:) Have you got?



Hari-śauri:



tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān

saṁsāreṣu narādhamān

kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān

āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu

[Bg. 16.19]



"Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life."



*Prabhupāda: They will be punished to forget God, forget. He wants to forget, so apohanaṁ ca, mattaḥ... The brain is there, but Kṛṣṇa wants that this rascal should be punished to forget God. Then he will be punished more by the material nature, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā's business is to punish the demon, so māyā keeps him in demonic life so that he may be punished more and more. And Kṛṣṇa gives intelligence to a devotee, teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. One who is engaged in devotional service, trying sincerely, from within He is giving instruction, "Do like this. Do like this."



Hayagrīva: Can one be forgetful of Kṛṣṇa eternally?



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: No, but...



Prabhupāda: Eternally, it is not possible. Just like a father and son. It may be, circumstantially, the son is separated from the father, but it is not possible to forget eternally. Sometimes he remembers his father. Father is always remembering the son, and father is looking after the opportunity when the son becomes obedient to his order. So there is no question of perpetually.



Hayagrīva: That's good news (laughing).



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: Regarding karma and transmigration, Bergson writes, "What are we in fact? What is our character if not the condensation of the history that we have lived from our birth, nay, even before our birth, since we bring with us pre*-natal dispositions? Doubtless we think with only a small part of our past, but it is with our entire past, including the original bent of our soul that we desire, will and act. Our past, then, as a whole is made manifest to us in its impulse. It is felt in the form of tendency, although a small part of it only is known in the form of idea." That is, although we cannot recall much of the past, the present, our present state, is determined...



*Prabhupāda: We cannot recall. That is the defect in our life. Therefore the literatures are there to remind us. That opportunity is there in the human form of life to take advantage of this Vedic knowledge which is kept in the literature. Just like Bhagavad*-gītā or any Vedic literature. Especially Bhagavad-gītā is the nutshell of all Vedic knowledge. So we have forgotten. But this forgotten, forgetfulness is not perpetual. He can be reminded and he can come to his real consciousness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. These rascals, they have forgotten God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are thinking that "We are the master of everything." The so-called scientists, they are decrying God: "Now we shall do everything independently." This is demonic. So he has to be reminded. Therefore śāstras are there, sādhus are there-sādhu, śāstra, guru-guru is there, that you are not independent, you are foolishly thinking like that. You are under the clutches of māyā. So don't remain in this position, then your life will spoil. Take instruction from Bhagavad-gītā. Act accordingly. You will be happy.



Hayagrīva: Well he sees that we are what we are today due to all of our activities in the past.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is karma. Karmaṇā, or according to our past karmas, we are in a particular position. So this position can be changed. It is not that it will continue. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You are suffering on account of your past misdeeds, the reaction, but this suffering is caused on account of your not surrendering unto Me. Now you surrender. I will stop this reaction of...," ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva*-pāpebhyo [Bg. 18.66]. This offer is already there, but still we do not take advantage. That is our dog's obstinacy, and we are suffering, and we shall continue to suffer.



Hayagrīva: From this, Bergson concludes that we are evolving, that we learn from an accumulation of experience, that we cannot, in a sense, repeat the same mistake twice. He writes, "From this survival of the past, it follows that consciousness cannot go through the same state twice. Circumstances may still be the same, but they will act no longer on the same person since they find him in a new moment of his history. Our personality, which is being built up each instant with its accumulated experience, changes without ceasing. Thus our personality shoots, grows and ripens without ceasing."



*Prabhupāda: No. There is no cessation because the soul is eternal, so his consciousness is also eternal. But it is changing according to the circumstances, association, time, place, and the party changes. Therefore good association required. Sādhu*-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. It is called sādhu-saṅga, association with the devotees. By good association the consciousness can be changed from material to spiritual. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to change the consciousness from matter to Kṛṣṇa. So that requires guidance. The guidance is Kṛṣṇa's instruction and the spiritual master. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that he has given us śāstra and the sādhu and guru. So if we take advantage of that then we become reformed, our life becomes successful.



Hayagrīva: There seems to be an inconsistency here when he says, "our personality, which is being built up with its accumulated experience." Now if personality is determined by experience and if death means a forgetting of our past experience, then a new personality must emerge when we take on a new body.



Prabhupāda: No. The..., your deeds in the past you may forget, but Kṛṣṇa does not forget. He therefore gives you chance that "You wanted to do this, now here is the opportunity, you do it."



Hayagrīva: At death it's said that we take the mind...



Prabhupāda: Death means the body is changed.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: But the soul is not changed. So soul continues with his reaction of past deeds, and even though he forgets what he has done in the past, Kṛṣṇa is there. He reminds that "You wanted to do this. Do it now."



Hayagrīva: The person is the same but the false personality changes then?



Prabhupāda: Yes. So this personality can change to become perfect if he follows the instruction of Kṛṣṇa.



Hayagrīva: Because obviously, say in my next life, I'll be a different personality.



Prabhupāda: Yes. According to your work, this karmaṇā daiva netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], by..., the body will be selected, not by you but by superior authority, that "This man has acted like this, so he should get this body."



Hayagrīva: If at death the soul takes the mind, intelligence, and ego with it...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...into a new body... If that's the case, isn't it possible for the mind to actually remember its past lives?



Prabhupāda: Sometimes he remembers. There are many instances, just like Bhārata Mahārāja. He got the body of an animal, but by the grace of Kṛṣṇa that he remembered everything of his past life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam, "That I am." Bhārata Mahārāja's remembrance, it is due to Kṛṣṇa's mercy. He was a devotee, but he neglected his devotional service on account for being too much attached to a small deer. So at the time of death he was thinking of the deer, he got the body of a deer. But Kṛṣṇa, out of His great mercy, He reminded him that "You are in such a position now. You have become a deer. So don't forget Me, My service." So he did that. He was always staying with devotees, that "By my fault I have got this body, so let me remain in this life with the devotees." So next life he took birth in a nice brāhmaṇa's family, but due to his past experience, that "I fell down," he remained just like a dull brain, not associating with anyone, that "I cannot fall again." So even in the next birth Kṛṣṇa can remind him of his past birth and guide him.



Hayagrīva: Now if, as Bergson says, our personality, which by definition would include the mind, the intelligence, the ego, and the soul also, as a person...,



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: ...if it shoots, grows and ripens without ceasing, then why or how could the personality or the individual jīva soul return to a lower life*-form? That is to say, how could a greater experience regress to a lesser experience?



*Prabhupāda: The..., everything is calculated at the time of death. That is nature's process. That I was talking in the morning, that these boys, they are too much addicted to these water sports. Twenty*-four hours they are indulging in this water sport. They are creating a mentality to become aquatic animal. So naturally, at the time of death, he will think of all these things and nature will give him a body. Yes. That you cannot check. After death you are completely under nature's control. You cannot dictate. That these rascal do not understand. Therefore they, "Finish this business. There is no life after death. That's all."



Hayagrīva: Now how was it that a great personality like Indra, with his mind, intelligence, and ego all intact, how is it he could become a toad?



*Prabhupāda: Yes, you can become. So long you are materially existing, your thoughts are under the modes of material mature. So sometimes the thoughts are in the modes of goodness, sometimes the thoughts are in the modes of passion, and sometimes they are in the modes of ignorance and act accordingly. So up and down it is going on. So in order to keep yourself on the standard platform, one should engage himself in devotional service. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītya etān

*brahma*-bhūyāya...



*(aside:) Find out this verse. Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti*-yogena yaḥ se... (pause)



Hari-śauri:



māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

*bhakti*-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

*brahma*-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]



"One who engages in full devotional service, and who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman."



Prabhupāda: Yes. So one has to keep himself on the Brahman platform, then there is no difficulties.



Hayagrīva: No..., no karmic regression.



*Prabhupāda: Therefore we are trying to keep everyone twenty*-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Hayagrīva: That, that would be what Bergson would call creative evolution.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He saw, he saw change as maturation. He says, "We are seeking only the precise meaning that our consciousness gives to this word 'exist,' and we find that, for a conscious being, to exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly."



*Prabhupāda: So, you want..., you are struggling, creating for the highest position, but Kṛṣṇa is giving you the idea. This is the highest position, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], that "You give up your so-called positions, you simply surrender unto Him..., Me, and I shall give you all protection." This is the idea. But he denies, and that because he thinks Kṛṣṇa is ordinary human being, "Oh, how He can give me the topmost position?" So he goes on, he..., with his plan-making, so that... But this plan-making, if he is actually advancing, then after many, many births he will come to that conclusion that everything is Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. But this happens after he is struggling for many, many births. So best thing is that instead of waiting many, many births, if we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction immediately, we become perfect. Why you should continue in ignorance, unsettled, and making plan? That is another foolishness.



Hayagrīva: The bond. It's the bondage of habit.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: The bondage...



Prabhupāda: Then you have to change. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, that "Do like this, do like this."



Hayagrīva: In Creative Evolution Bergson writes, "We may conclude then that individuality is never perfect and that it is often difficult, sometimes impossible, to tell what is an individual and what is not, but that life nevertheless manifests a search for individuality as if it strove to constitute systems naturally isolated, naturally closed." A search for...



Prabhupāda: (aside:) You have given the key?



Hayagrīva: What does he mean by "search for individuality"? Isn't the individual always there?



*Prabhupāda: It is no search. We are individual, always. This is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā in the Second Chapter, that we are individual now, we are individual..., were in the past, and we shall continue to remain individual in future. So the individuality is always there, but the living entity, we, we are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Our intelligence is very meager, is very small, so, so therefore we forget what is our real constitutional position. So to bring to our original constitutional position the..., Kṛṣṇa and His instructions are there. The individuality is always, past, present and future, but when we forget Kṛṣṇa, make our own plan, then we suffer, and when we utilize our individuality properly, little independence, and follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction as His servant, then our life is perfect. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of Bergson.



*Prabhupāda: Now, the Māyāvādī philosophers, they, possessing poor fund of knowledge, they want to kill this individuality. But that is not possible. Kṛṣṇa says that you shall remain individual perpetually. There is no question of stopping. Mamaivāṁśo jīva*-bhūta jīva-loka sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. They, perpetually you are individual, God is also individual. So to..., killing the individuality is not possible, but this is a false notion that "I kill my individuality and become one with God, then I will be perfect." That is not possible. You cannot become one with God. You keep your individuality. So even though if for the time being you think that "I am now merged in the existence of God," but on account of our individuality you shall again fall down.



Hayagrīva: And there's no need for a search for individuality.



Prabhupāda: Individual, he is always individual. Perpetually.



Hayagrīva: Yes. Concerning the creation, Bergson speaks of impulsion and attraction, and he says, "The causal relation between God and the world is seen as an attraction when regarded from below, as an impulsion or a contact when regarded from above. Therefore we perceive God as an efficient, that is a beginning, cause or as a final cause, according to the point of view." That is, we can see things either..., the creation coming from God or moving toward God, depending on our viewpoint.



Prabhupāda: No. Creation is..., God is always there. Before the creation and when the creation is finished, there is God. So God is not one of the creation. In the creation there are so many things coming out, so God is not one of the products of creation because He is created. He was before creation and He will exist to continue after annihilation. This is the Vedic knowledge.



Hayagrīva: Yes. This is, this is what he is saying.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: That God is the alpha, the beginning, and the omega, the end, depending on our point of view. He also says in the middle.



Prabhupāda: Not, not of the point of view. It is always there.



Hayagrīva: Oh.



Prabhupāda: But because we are imperfect, you are thinking like that, that individually we are imperfect. God is always there, and this cosmic manifestation is temporary creation. It is a chance to the individual soul to develop his consciousness, but if he does not take, again the annihilation, he remains in unconscious position, and when again there is creation he comes to consciousness. So this is going on.



Hayagrīva: He says, "If life realizes a plan, it ought to manifest a greater harmony the further it advances, just as the house shows a better and better idea of the architect as stone is set upon stone. If, on the contrary, the unity of life is to be found solely in the beginning in the impetus that pushes it along the road of time, the harmony is not in front but behind. The unity is given at the start as an impulsion, not placed at the end as an attraction." But he's...



Prabhupāda: So this can be utilized. Suppose an artist is trying to improve this building. So if he takes instruction from an experienced artist how to improve, then it becomes easier, and if he tries himself, it takes long, long time. He should take the artistic idea from a person who is perfect in artistic idea, then his work will make progress very swiftly. Otherwise he is already imperfect, he may think "This is better," but it may not be better because he is imperfect. So he has to take instruction from a perfect person, then the progress will be very swift. [break]



*Hayagrīva: Well, this can be taken from the individual point of view or from the idea that God is the architect of the universe. But according to the system of yugas, there is a greater harmony in the beginning, and as the universe winds down, this harmony disintegrates*-Tretā-, Dvāpara-, and Kali-yuga. Yet there's a plan.



Prabhupāda: That's, what is called, that is the nature. First, first of all something is created, then it develops, it stays for some time, then it becomes old, dwindling, and then finished. This is called six changes of sarvika (?), of anything material. But a spirit soul is not material. He is not subjected to all these changes. This is our practical experience. The body is changing but spirit soul is the same. He remembers that "I had this body, a child's body. I have this young boy's body." He remembers; *therefore he is eternal. The change is taking place of the body, so therefore the soul has nothing to do with the bodily changes. He has got his perpetual duty, perpetual activity*-that is devotional service. So he has to be trained up in that perpetual duty, then he will stop this process of bodily changes, he will remain in his eternal body, spiritual body. That is going back to home, back to Godhead.



Hayagrīva: So the creative evolution must necessarily be the evolution of the soul.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: No.



*Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal. Soul is ever*-existing. There is no question of evolution or..., that it is according to the body. So long he is in the material existence and bodily concept of life, he is thinking that a better body is evolution and a lower body... But if his consciousness is changed, then there is no chance of changing, different bodies. He remains in his eternal body.



Hayagrīva: Well the basic contradiction, it seems, between Bergson and the Vedic version is that of the evolution of the universe.



Prabhupāda: Evolution of universe means, I have already explained, that anything material, it goes under six changes. So this universe, since its birth, it is increasing in volume. So that is material change. It is nothing to the, to do with the spiritual. Spirit, the soul, as we have got soul within this body, similarly ākāra, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is the soul of this universe. He is not changing; the universe is changing, the body is changing.



Hayagrīva: Bergson's theory seems to be that there's greater harmony being realized the further life advances or the further the universe goes on.



Prabhupāda: Harmony is there, certainly. That harmony, just like the child's body is harmonically changing into boy's body, harmonical changes, there is harmony. But the change is there.



Hayagrīva: So there's harmony at the beginning and harmony at the end?



Prabhupāda: Everything is in harmony. That is God's law. Everything is in harmony. Material or spiritual, everything is in harmony.



Hayagrīva: So if everything is in harmony, then evolution has an incidental meaning. The meaning is just...



Prabhupāda: The evolution is all harmony. Just like from aquatics one has to become insect. From aquatic one has to accept the body of plants and trees, then he has to accept the bodies of insects. This is harmony. Changing is there, but it is in harmony. Now, when one comes to accept the body of human being, then his consciousness is developed. Now he can accept, because he has got greater freedom than the animal, so he has to make his choice whether he is going to stop this evolutionary process or he wants to remain in this evolutionary process. So if he takes instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then he can stop this botheration of evolution, and if he does not take, then he remains. (aside:) Find out this verse, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa. What is it?



Hari-śauri:



aśraddhadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

aprāpya māṁ nivartante

*mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani

[Bg. 9.3]



"Those who are not faithful on the path of devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of foes, but return to birth and death in this material world."



*Prabhupāda: That's all. That is the chance of this human form of life. The, everything is there. If he takes the standard instruction and makes his choice whether he shall continue this perpetual, this subordinate position under the laws of nature or he should become free by going back to home, back to Godhead*-that choice is there. So Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, and simply following the instruction one can become completely detached from this cycle of birth and death, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... [Bg. 4.9]. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's instruction, this body will be ended, that is described. But after ending this body, no more material body. That is perfection.



Hayagrīva: Sometimes Bergson sounds like a Sophist in his contention. He says, "Man might be considered the reason for the existence of the entire organization of life on our planet." Is man the end of evolution on this planet, or is he just simply the highest form of life now present on the planet?



Prabhupāda: He is not highest form of life.



Hayagrīva: On this planet, he is speaking.



Prabhupāda: On this planet also there are different types of men. Not all men are the same position, same as there are intelligent person, there is a foolish person, there is a rich person, there is...



Hayagrīva: He is speaking of men in general, everybody, all mankind.



Prabhupāda: All mankind, what does he mean all? Everyone is individual. What does he mean? This is not very good, intelligent.



Hayagrīva: Yes. He sees the material worlds as being isolated. He says, "There is then a bond between the worlds, but this bond may be regarded as infinitely loose in comparison with the mutual dependence which unites the parts of the same world among ourselves," excuse me, "which unites the parts of the same world among themselves. So that it is not artificially for reasons of mere convenience that we isolate our solar system. Nature itself invites us to isolate it." So this, this calls to mind the image of a prison house. The isolation of the world, as far as man is concerned, is isolation imposed by material nature on the conditioned.



Prabhupāda: He is isolated. He is thinking in the wrong way. Just like in the prison house every prisoner, every, every criminal is different from other criminal. So everyone has to suffer the consequence of his criminal activities, so every individual person is suffering or enjoying according to his past deeds. So there cannot be any combination. Then we forget the individuality. That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: We feel, we feel isolation as individuals, and not only is there isolation as individuals but we feel isolated on this planet. Man cannot communicate with beings on other planets.



Prabhupāda: That is his imperfectness. What is the use of having communications with other planet? The other planets are also like these. They are individual persons. So what is the utility of communicating with the other planets? What is the utility? What does he mean by it?



*Hayagrīva: Well, man has always had a desire*-basically it's a desire for God-but a desire to communicate with something outside of this world, outside of this earth, something higher.



*Prabhupāda: The higher principle is there, Bhagavad*-gītā, Kṛṣṇa. Why does he not communicate with Him? Then he will, that will make him perfect. What is the use of...? Just like that a tree, it has got many leaves, many branches. So if one leaf communicates with other leaf, that will not help him. But if water is poured on the root of the tree, then everyone will participate, sarva hano 'cyutejyā. So if we communicate with God, Kṛṣṇa, then automatically we understand other things. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). Simply by knowing Kṛṣṇa we can understand everything.



Hayagrīva: But they have sent rockets off into space and by...



Prabhupāda: That is childish. I have already explained.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is childish.



Hayagrīva: But...



Prabhupāda: They cannot go.



Hayagrīva: By use of, what is this radio, what do they call it? By radio waves they try to listen to messages from outer space.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but what benefit we will get? Suppose it is not very important thing. If you hear how the persons in other plant are talking, so what benefit we will get?



Hayagrīva: Is this isolation a characteristic only of the lower and middle planetary systems? In the higher planetary system, systems, is there so much isolation?



*Prabhupāda: Isolation is always there. Even in this world there is isolation, even in animals. The birds, the crows, they remain together, and the swans remain together. So there is isolation between the swan and the crows. So this isolation will continue because everyone is under different modes of material nature. There are three modes of material nature. Multiply three by three, it becomes nine. Nine by nine, then it becomes eighty*-one. So, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. So according to the association of different qualities the isolation is there, but when they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual platform, so there is no more isolation. When everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord, there is no isolation.



Hayagrīva: Bergson sees the universe itself as expanding and evolving. He writes, "For the universe is not made but is being made continually."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, we also say that, that universes came from the breathing of Mahā*-Viṣṇu. So just like we can imagine from breathing with the air, something may come very minute form, then it develops.



Hayagrīva: Bigger then?



Prabhupāda: Bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger.



Hayagrīva: Expanding.



Prabhupāda: One may be surprised that how this universe has come from the breathing of Viṣṇu, but actually it is so. If we accept that the universe is increasing, length and breadth, then the universe may come like particles and then begin to develop. That is the process we see in our child birth. In the womb it becomes just like a small pea, then it develops, develops as either elephant or man, the body develops. So everything material, it is created, it is very small, that a seed, very small, but it develops a big tree, banyan tree. That is the way of nature. So that's a fact that the universe is increasing. Not perpetually; to a certain extent. Then stop, again it becomes dwindled, and then it is finished.



Hayagrīva: Yes. He didn't know. He says, "It is growing, perhaps indefinitely." "Perhaps," he says.



Prabhupāda: Perhaps is no knowledge.



Hayagrīva: By the addition of new worlds.



Prabhupāda: That is all imagination.



Hayagrīva: There's no way to know.



Prabhupāda: Poor fund of knowledge.



Hayagrīva: But new worlds are being added, but not indefinitely.



Prabhupāda: No, new worlds added and old worlds subtracted. That is going on, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19].



*Hayagrīva: The present*-day material scientists, astronomers, state..., one of the theories is that the universe is expanding, that the systems are going outward into space and are moving proportionately further and further from one another, just like raisins rising in dough. When raisin bread is in the oven, the raisins, they go further and further and further apart as the dough expands. So is this...?



Prabhupāda: That expansion goes to a certain extent. Then the expansion stops, then it becomes dwindling and then finished.



Hayagrīva: Well then Bergson is actually incorrect in saying that the universe is evolving toward some grand harmony.



Prabhupāda: That is his imagination. What does he mean by this harmony? Just like I am increasing, your body is increasing, your child's body is increasing. So everybody's body is increasing, so where is the, what does he mean by harmony? It is increasing and it will dwindle and it will finish. That is material nature. If you say this process of increasing and dwindling is going on, that is harmony, then there is no harm, but the, individually everything is going under this process of increasing and decreasing and at the end finished.



Hayagrīva: He gives and example that's something similar to the Vedic. He speaks of "a center from which worlds shoot out like rockets in a fireworks display, provided, however, that I do not present this center as a thing but as a continuity of shooting out. God thus defined has nothing of the already made. He, that is God, is unceasing life, action, and freedom."



Prabhupāda: It is just like a wheel. A wheel is rotating. There are spokes, there are rims, there is a hub, and in the center, what is they call that, that supports the hub?



Hayagrīva: Axle.



Prabhupāda: Spindle, axle, axle. So He is the axle. So the round is going on, but He is the center. Everything is going on but He is the center. Aham ādir hi..., what is called? Devānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. So the central point is God, and other things are just like a big wheel, and the big wheel has got so many parts. The, it has got the rim, it has got the spokes, it is going in force, but the axle is the same, always in the center.



Hayagrīva: Now this is the last point, and I want to just for the record to correct this on Śyāmasundara's presentation because you took exception to this, and I believe that it was..., you wouldn't take exception to it. I don't know. It says Bergson refers to the "essential function of the universe as being that of a machine for the making of gods."



Prabhupāda: That is his misconception. That I have explained, the wheel. The wheel is going on. The wheel has got different parts but it is resting on the axle.



Hayagrīva: No, but is the universe a machine for the making of gods in the sense that it's a vehicle to make people Kṛṣṇa conscious?



Prabhupāda: No, this is wrong. The machine, the wheel is already depending on the axle. Axle is already there. Without axle, the wheel cannot move.



Hayagrīva: Not for the creation of God, not for the making of God.



Prabhupāda: Then?



Hayagrīva: But for the making of small "g" gods, like demigods. You once said...



Prabhupāda: Demigods are already there. Just like in the same example, in the wheel the different parts, they are already there.



Hayagrīva: So there's no question of the making of gods?



Prabhupāda: No, no. That is a wrong theory.



Hayagrīva: But when a man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, could you say that he has become like a god or godlike?



Prabhupāda: He, that godlessness is diseased condition. So when he becomes in normal condition, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His normal life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is mukti. Mukti means liberation. What is that liberation? A man is suffering from fever. So if the fever is stopped by medicine and treatment, then he becomes in normal health. It does not mean that he, he changes his constitution. He is the same man, but on account of fever he was talking nonsense, in convul..., what is called, convulsion?



Hayagrīva: Convulsions.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: Delirium.



*Prabhupāda: Delirium, yes. He is talking all nonsense, this diseased condition. So he has to cured from the diseased condition, then he will understand, "Oh, this is my position," brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], he becomes immediately joyful, "Oh, I am talking in delirium, nonsense." This is...



Hayagrīva: So instead of a machine for the making of gods, it's more like a hospital for the curing of souls.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, it is hospital. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means curing the disease. That is described in Nārada*-bhakti-sūtra, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], nirmalam. Nirmalam means purified. So when he becomes free from all this designation... The designation begins with this body, and the body accidentally born in Europe, he thinks, "I am a European." Born in America, "I am an American." Born in a Christian family, "I am Christian." He is born in Hindu family, "I am that." That is all misconception. His real position is that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, eternal servant." Then he is free from all. That is, that is beginning of..., that is brahma-bhūtaḥ, beginning of spiritual life. So nothing, not that a man can be made to God. He is not God; he is part and parcel of God. He has to simply understand his position. That is mukti. He is working under different impression, that "I am this body." Just like the other day with, concerning the philosopher Huxley. He is a philosopher but he is proud of becoming Englishman. Did you not say?



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: So this is going on. So*-called philosophy, scientific advancement, but the central mistake is there that he is thinking in terms of his body. That has to be corrected. Then it will be pure consciousness and normal life.



Hayagrīva: Now let me get this right. He doesn't say that it's a machine for the making..., that man becomes... He's not saying that man becomes God. He never says that.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: But that a man may evolve to a state like unto the demigods. Is that a possibility?



*Prabhupāda: What is demigod? That, there is a difference between demigod and a man. A demigod is in the better position, that's all. Just like a high*-court judge and layman. Both of them human being, but the high-court judge in a better position, that's all, but both of them human being.



Hayagrīva: But that's not the purpose of the universe.



*Prabhupāda: Everything is the... I am human being, you are human being, but you are in better position. So demigods, they are, on account of their higher qualities, they are in sattva*-guṇa, and here raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So..., but as soon we are not subjected to any guṇa, either sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, we are transcendental. So if we keep ourselves in that transcendental position, that is engaged in devotional service, then we are above this all, sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is wanted. Then that is called mukti, muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. We are contaminated or conditioned on account of association with these three modes of material nature, and if we keep ourself aloof from the association of three modes then we are mukta, we are liberated. That is devotional service.



Hayagrīva: Higher, higher than the demigods?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the demigods? They are also rotting in this material world. So devotees are not concerned how to become a demigod. They do not care. That is said by Prabhodānanda Sarasvatī: vidhi*-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate. Vidhi means Lord Brahmā, and mahendra means the king of heaven, Indra. So he says, "I think this Brahmā and Indra, Candra, the demigods just like as good as the germs and small insects." He says that. Vidhi-mahendrādiś. You have to attain such a position that you think this Brahmā and Indra and demigods, they are as good as the insects. Vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭa. Kīṭa means a small insect. So actually that is the position. Everyone has got a different type of body according to his karma, either Brahmā's body or ant's body, so he is under material laws. So that is not the position of freedom. One has to become above these material laws. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. So anyone who has actually attained that position, what is the importance of Brahmā's body or Indra's body? He is not concerned with the body, just, therefore devotees are not interested to be elevated to the higher planetary system in the heaven. They are not interested. They are interested going back to home, back to Godhead. So devotee's position is different. Just like we can see practically our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have got so many members. We are not perfect, but still it is not our ambition how to become a Rockefeller or big rich man. This is not our ambition. Is it our ambition, like that? We don't care for this Rockefeller or big, big man. We want how to become a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You can see practically. Our endeavors, activities, are not like the karmīs'. The karmīs are trying "How many motorcars I will possess. How many buildings I shall possess." We do not mind, but we are constructing temples. That is for Kṛṣṇa's service. We are getting money by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. You are envious of that money for Kṛṣṇa's service. Not to that to make a big bank balance and declare that "Now I have become as good as Rockefeller," or this or that. We are not interested. So a devotee is not at all interested to be promoted in the higher planetary system or become demigod. That is not their business. Kīṭa janma hau yathā tuyā dāsa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that bahir-mukha brahma-janme nāhi mora āśa, "I don't care to become a Brahmā, I, better I shall prepare to become a small ant in the house of a devotee." This is our ambition. I shall be very much satisfied remaining a small ant in the house of a devotee, a dog of a devotee, but I don't want, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, to become like Brahmā, Indra, Candra. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.



Hayagrīva: So that's the end of Bergson. (end)





ALEXANDER.HAY



Samuel Alexander



Hayagrīva: Samuel Alexander basically wrote one major book, called Space, Time and Deity.



Prabhupāda: Space, Time and...?



Hayagrīva: Deity.



Prabhupāda: Deity.



Hayagrīva: And in this book he defines religion. He says, "Religion leans on metaphysics for the justification of its conviction of the reality of its object, God. Philosophy leans on religion to justify it, and calling the possessor of Deity by the religious name of 'God.' The two methods of approach, that is philosophy and religion, are therefore complementary."



Prabhupāda: Hmm. That's right. Religion, when it is combined with philosophy, that makes sense, and religion without philosophy is sentiment. It has no practical value.



Hayagrīva: For Alexander, religion is like what...



*Prabhupāda: We should say in this connection that Bhagavad*-gītā is religion and philosophy combined together.



Hayagrīva: For Ale...



Prabhupāda: The religion is God worship, and everything explained there, just like immortality of the soul, that is philosophy. So it is combination of religion and philosophy that makes sense.



Hayagrīva: For Alexander religion is like hunger, and God is the food for that hunger.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "The religious which sets us in search of God is our groping out to the reality which is God. This religious appetite may either be stirred in us directly, by the impact of the world with its tendency to Deity, or it may first be felt by us as a need of our nature." So the desire or hunger for God may be motivated either externally or internally.



*Prabhupāda: That I explained this morning partially, that actually we are seeking love of God beginning with the body. That I have explained in this morning, that we love this body because I live within this body. As soon as I give up this body, the body is neglected, it has no value, throw it. So, so long the living soul is there, the body has value. So why the living soul is valuable? Because he is the part and parcel of God. So God is there also within this body. This is explained is the Bhagavad*-gītā. There are two living entities. One is..., they all..., both of them are known as kṣetra-jña. One kṣetra-jña only knows about his body, and the other kṣetra-jña knows all other bodies. That is God and the living entity. So the body is important because the living entities are there. The subordinate living entity is the part of the supreme living entity. So ultimately the conclusion is, because a supreme living entity is in the body or within the universe, therefore we have manufactured so many activities of love and society, friendship, nationality, community. Ultimately, when it culminates with love of God, then it is perfect. So the conclusion is that we are searching after the platform where God is love, but it is going on, I mean to say, by degrees, one after another, in different names.



Hayagrīva: Alexander despairs of the speculative method as a means for connecting with God, and he also feels that proofs of God's existence in nature are nonexistence, are nonexistent. If such a God is to be identified with the object of worship, that is to say we shouldn't worship God in nature. But how can God be known? For him God can be known by experience. Nor can we prove the existence of God, whether worshipable or not, except on the basis of experience.



Prabhupāda: This is natural. This is just like the other day I was saying that on the Hawaii Island we are standing, we know that the proprietor, the government, is there. So just after few yards there is the sea. Then we can conjecture: if the land has the proprietor, the sea has also proprietor. We have not seen who is the proprietor of the land, or the governor of the land. Similarly, there is a governor, proprietor, of the sea and the sky, but we have not seen. That does not mean there is no proprietor.



Hayagrīva: Now...



Prabhupāda: By see, by exp..., by our present experience we can guess the experience which you have not actually experienced. As we see that everything has got I... I am the proprietor of this body, he is the proprietor of this house, he is the proprietor of that land, he is the proprietor..., that there must be a proprietor of the sea. This is common sense. And that is God. The proprietor of the sun, the proprietor of the moon, the sky, that is God. That is described in the Vedic literature. It is said that the moon is the mind of God, the sun is the eyes of God, the land is the foot of God, the water is the semina of God. Everything is described.



Hayagrīva: So God can be seen in nature.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only nature. This is the beginning of realizing. This is impersonal. But there is person at the background. Just like we do not see..., we know that there is one governor, proprietor of the Hawaii Island. We have not seen. But when we see him, he is person. This is the conclusion. Similarly, so long we are not competent to see God, we can understand, "This is God's hand, this is God's heart, this is His..., God's mind, this is God's eyes." But when we are competent we can see regularly, "Here, here is God, face to face." That requires qualification. Because I did not see the governor of Hawaii is that he is not a person, he is imperson*-that is foolishness. When I become competent to see, qualified to see the governor, you see he is a person.



Hayagrīva: Alexander distinguishes between what he calls deity and God Himself. For him deity is how it feels to be divine. Now deity for him is a relative term. It is the next highest level of existence. For instance, for an ant, a dog may be a deity; for a dog, a man may be a deity; for a man, a demigod may be a deity. He says, "For any level of existence, deity is the next higher empirical quality."



Prabhupāda: Hmm.



Hayagrīva: "It is therefore a variable quality, and as the world grows in time, deity changes with it. On each level a new quality looms ahead, which plays to it the part of deity. However, God is the being which possesses Deity in full." That is to say God is always one step ahead of every creature.



Prabhupāda: They do not know the science of God, but as philosopher they are suggesting the method. That is nice. Just like for ant, a bird is deity; for a bird, a cat is deity; for a cat, a dog is deity. So in this way, according to the position one selects the deity. But if you go on searching out, when you find out somebody that he has no any, anyone to worship... The ant has to worship the bird, bird has to worship the cat, cat has to worship the so on, so on. In this way, when you come to a person who hasn't got to worship anybody, He is God. That is sense. In the lower stage there is another, higher living being than the lower living being, but in this way searching out, when you come to a point that there is this person who hasn't got to worship anybody ... That is explained in the Vedic literature:



īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah

*sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

*sarva*-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

[Bs. 5.1]



*He is worshipable by everyone. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "Everyone has got higher than him for worship, but I have nothing to worship. I am the Supreme, mattaḥ parataram. No..., there is no more superior authority than Me." Then He is God. So long one has superior authority, he is not God. He is subordinate. But when he comes to a person who has no more superior than Him, then He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa.



Hayagrīva: Although Alexander himself tries to describe God in philosophical terms...



Prabhupāda: Then his philosophy is right, that an ant's god is a bird; bird's god..., like that. So when he finds, comes to a person who has no more god, then He is Supreme God.



Hayagrīva: But he feels that ultimately God is beyond description. He says...



Prabhupāda: No. Why? We have, this, this is description.



Hayagrīva: Yes, but he's giving a description, or attempting to give a philosophical definition.



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, this is right description, that you find deity in different stages, but when you come to a person that He has no more deity, then He is God.



Hayagrīva: He says even the description...



Prabhupāda: You don't find in the life of Kṛṣṇa that He is worshiping any other God.



*Hayagrīva: He worships no*-one.



*Prabhupāda: No*-one. There is... Therefore He is God.



Hayagrīva: Nor does He meditate.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: Nor does He meditate.



Prabhupāda: Meditate of Himself. The Māyāvādī has taken like that. But He has no more, anybody higher than Him, so He has to meditate upon Himself.



Hayagrīva: He does meditate upon Himself.



Prabhupāda: Just to teach us. In the, as a family man, He in the morning He was meditating.



Hayagrīva: Oh.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Gṛhastha. So He was meditating upon Himself. [break]



Hari-śauri:



arjuna uvāca

paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma

pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān

puruṣaṁ śāśvatam divyam

*ādi*-devam ajaṁ vibhum

[Bg. 10.12]



āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve

devarṣir nāradas tathā

asito devalo vyāsaḥ

svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me



*"Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal Divine Person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all*-pervading beauty. All the great sages, such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa, proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Finished. "All authorities accept, I realize, and You personally say." Then what evidence more? Hm? What is the possible evidence? No evidence, finished. "I personally experience, You personally say, and the authorities accept You. Finished." Things should be simplified. This is...



Hayagrīva: Meanwhile Alexander is saying, uh, he seems to conceive of God in a universal form. He says, "Now the body of God is the whole universe, and there is no body outside His."



*Prabhupāda: That is experimented in the Bhagavad*-gītā for men like Alexander and company. Arjuna requested that Kṛṣṇa to show His universal form, because he knew that "I am accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, but there are many persons with poor fund of knowledge, they may not accept." Therefore he requested Kṛṣṇa to show him the universal form. That He showed, so that there is another proof for person like Mr. Alexander and company. The, in the Eleventh Chapter, the universal form is very nicely explained. But the universal form was shown by Kṛṣṇa; therefore Kṛṣṇa is original. Universal form is not original; *it was manifested by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's natural form is Kṛṣṇa. The universal form is a feature of Him. God... That, that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Find out this verse.



Hari-śauri:



ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



"I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise, who know this perfectly, engage in My devotional service and worship Me..."



*Prabhupāda: So "everything emanates from Me" mean the universal form also emanate from. So iti matvā bhajante mām: "One who understand Me, he, he becomes a Kṛṣṇa devotee." Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva*-saman(vitāḥ), that He is the origin of universal form also; then he becomes a Kṛṣṇa devotee.



Hayagrīva: He sees God's... [break] Alexander sees God's Deity as being different from others in that it is infinite... [break] This is the continuation of Alexander that was interrupted due to the defective tape. A God..., uh, Alexander considers God's Deity as differing from that of others in being infinite, and he says, "God's body..."



Prabhupāda: This, this, this sense should be explained. Because God is infinite, He has infinite Deities also. That is infiniteness. He is presented as Deity; *that is infinitely of varieties. That is infiniteness. Why he is sticking to one Deity? That is his not understanding the meaning of what is infinite. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam: He has Deity infinitely. That is infinity. Because He is infinite, He has no Deity*-that is not real conception. He is infinite and He has got infinite Deity forms.



Hayagrīva: He says, "God's body, being the whole universe of space/time, is the source of the categories but not itself subject to them."



Prabhupāda: Yes. So if God is Deity, He is also not subject to these created living being. That is condemned. When one thinks God's Deity as one of the deities within this material world, he is condemned as mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Because I appear just like a human being, the rascals, asses, they think of Me as ordinary human."



Hayagrīva: Now in this book Space, Time and Deity, on page 380, Alexander writes... Alexander takes the Aristotelian view of God in saying, "There is no reciprocal action from God, for though we speak as we inevitably must in human terms of God's response to us, there is no direct experience of that response except through our own feeling that devotion to God, or worship, carries with it its own satisfaction."



*Prabhupāda: That is his imperfectness. God is omnipotent. He comes before Kṛṣṇa, er, Arjuna, and He speaks Bhagavad*-gītā. So because he has no advanced knowledge, he cannot understand how God, omnipotent, all-powerful, can come and speak with His devotee. That is his poor fund of knowledge.



Hayagrīva: Yes, that...



Prabhupāda: If God is omnipotent, why He cannot come and talk with His devotee? Then where is the omnipotency? These rascals cannot understand.



Hayagrīva: That was...



Prabhupāda: There is no meaning of omnipotency if God cannot come and talk with His devotee.



Hayagrīva: Because they have no experience, they think that...



Prabhupāda: That means poor fund of knowledge. The knowledge is imperfect. They are talking of God omnipotent, and He cannot talk with His devotee. Just see. He is restricted by his own law, by his own experience. He is such a fool.



Hayagrīva: This was also Aristotle's view. He said it's foolish for, he says man directs love toward an object that can reciprocate love.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Therefore it's foolish to love Zeus because Zeus does not extend his love to man. This was the Aristotelian view, that there's no reciprocation.



Prabhupāda: No, Zeus? Zeus I, I don't follow.



Hayagrīva: Oh, Zeus is a, the Greek God, Greek name for God.



*Prabhupāda: He reciprocates to the advanced devotee. Just like it is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrva... [Bg. 10.10]. One who is in full love with God, He talks with him. He does not talk with ordinary rascals. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti: [Bs. 5.38] one who has developed love of God, such person always sees God within his heart. So it is a question of Just like Kṛṣṇa says, that "I am talking to you because you are My devotee," bhakto 'si. Why God should talk with nondevotee? He has no business. Just like king, he talks with his immediate officials, minister. He does not talk with the street man. How you can expect? How this street man can express that "I want to talk with the king or the president"? There is no question. He talks. He talks with the qualified devotees, not with others.



Hayagrīva: Wasn't there also something He says, that "As you approach Me...?"



Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually just like you are talking, you can talk with God also. These gopīs in Vṛndāvana, in everything they are playing with Kṛṣṇa. Mother Yaśodā is binding Kṛṣṇa just like ordinary child. But these are not happening ordinarily. That the Bhāgavata says, that "What this gopī Yaśodā did her past life that the Supreme Lord is sucking her breast?" So you cannot expect that the dealings as God is doing with mother Yaśodā, Mahārāja Nanda, the gopīs. Therefore we have to be qualified to that position to deal with God. That another place that,



*itthaṁ satāṁ brahma*-sukhānubhūtyā

*dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para*-daivatena

*māyāśritānāṁ nara*-dārakeṇa

*sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]



These boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, they have amassed their pious activities for many, many lives, now they have come to this position to play with God. It is not ordinary position. Therefore the rascals, they think, "This is all myth." But it is inconceivable by them. But one comes to that state, he can play with God, he can rise on the shoulder of God and he can talk with Him like ordinary friend, ordinary child. So one has to come to that position.



Hayagrīva: Hmm.



*Prabhupāda: The very word is this kṛta*-puṇya-puñjāḥ. One who has amassed the resultant action of pious activities for many millions of births, that he can have this position.



Hayagrīva: Six pages later, Alexander writes, "The community is one of cooperation. The individual is sustained by trusting God, but he wants and claims the help of God as the child his father's, and in turn God reciprocates the worship man pays Him and the confidence he reposes in Him."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Yes. He says that six pages after he says God does not reciprocate. "There is no such reciprocation from God."



Prabhupāda: But here he says reciprocate.



Hayagrīva: He says there's reciprocation. That's what's confusing. But he goes on further to say, "There's always the double relationship of need. If man wants God and depends upon Him, God wants man and is so far dependent."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is dependent. There is no question about it.



Hayagrīva: But how is God dependent on man?



Prabhupāda: Not. God is not dependent, but...



Hayagrīva: No, but that, he seemed to be saying that.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: He says, "If man wants God and depends upon Him, God wants man and is so far dependent."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that is acceptable in this sense, that God is independent thoroughly, but sometimes He wants to become dependent. That is His pleasure. And He accepts some of His devotee so that He can depend upon. Just like mother Yaśodā, that God became dependent on mother Yaśodā. Unless mother Yaśodā allows God to suck her breast, God will die. God is thinking like that, and He is crying. That is God's pleasure, that everyone is dependent on Him, and He is not dependent on anyone, so in order to derive this pleasure how a dependent child enjoys the care of mother, He accept to become a son of a devotee. That is not very ordinary thing to understand, but He has In the Caitanya*-caritāmṛta it is explained...



Hayagrīva: I'm not sure that Alexander understood it in that way.



Prabhupāda: No. How he can understand? (laughter) He cannot. He is a talkative philosopher, that's all.



Hayagrīva: He, he says, "God Himself is involved in our acts and their issues. Not only does He matter to us, but we matter to Him."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is one sense correct. Because we are fallen condition and we are sons of God, so we are suffering. God is very much compassionate; therefore He comes personally to teach us: "You rascal, why you are rotting in this material world? You surrender to Me and go back to home, back to Godhead, you will be happy." Therefore He is consulting. Otherwise why He comes from Vaikuṇṭha? Everyone, just like a son is rotting in his own way, but the father comes: "My dear son, why you are rotting in this way? You come home. You have got state. You will live there comfortably." But he does not come. That is his misfortune.



Hayagrīva: Now, Alex...



Prabhupāda: God's, God's becoming concerned about a..., us is natural, because we are sons of God, but at the present moment we are disobedient; therefore you are conditioned by nature. So we are suffering, and God being the supreme father, He feels for. He is not suffering, but He feels, as a devotee feels for these conditioned soul. Because he is servant of God, he knows that God feels for these conditioned soul; *they are suffering. That Kṛṣṇa also gives recognition to the devotee, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya*-kṛttamaḥ [Bg. 18.69]. The devotees who are trying to preach the gospel, the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, he is the most dear devotee to Kṛṣṇa, He says, because he is acting on behalf of God to deliver these rascals, conditioned soul.



Hayagrīva: He speaks of theism and pantheism. Now we might equate theism with personalism and pantheism with impersonal, the impersonal aspect.



*Prabhupāda: There is nothing... Impersonal means when we cannot see that the background is person. We can of course take the lesson from nature that the sunshine is impersonal but the background is sun*-god. But because we are in a very lower stage of life we can simply experience the sunshine but we cannot go and talk with the sun-god. That is not possible. So similarly, the background is person and the expansion of God's energy is imperson. So because we are in the energy, we are not directly in touch with God; therefore we say that God is an imperson. We have no such capacity now, but they, if we become devotee, we can attain that position when he can talk with God in person as the gopīs and the cowherds boy, mother Yaśodā and other in Vṛndāvana inhabitants they are doing.



Hayagrīva: He says, "For theism, God is an individual being distinct from the finite being which make up the world. For panth..."



Prabhupāda: Hm? Finite? He is not finite.



Hayagrīva: No, He is distinct, He is different. He is an individual...



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.



Hayagrīva: ...but He is different from the finite beings...



Prabhupāda: So that is the Vedic injunction, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is also eternal, He is also living being; *we are also eternal, we are also living being. But He is the chief. How He is chief? Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That single number eternal living being, He is maintaining all these plural number living beings. Therefore you will find either in this material world or in the spiritual world there is so much arrangement. The sky is there, the air is there, the fire is there, the water is there, the land is there. He has made, even in this conditioned state, God has given us so much things, made for our maintenance. We require water*-we find; we require air, so many things, and God has given us ample opportunity. So He is maintaining. Without air we cannot breathe; without water we cannot live; without fire we cannot live. So He has given; therefore He is maintaining, He is maintainer. So one, the chief eternal living being is God, and the subordinate eternal living being are the jīvas, or the conditioned soul.



Hayagrīva: Well that's one hand, theism. He says, "For pantheism God is eminent in the universe of finite things, a pervading presence."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Presence is just like the water has come from Him. We say the semina of God. The light is coming from God. We say the sun is the eye of God. In this way everything is related, emanation from God. So, so long we do not understand wherefrom these things are coming, it appears God is imperson. But when we understand that "Here is the source of this sky, this air, the light, the water, the land," then He is person. So impersonal feature means a subordinate feature to the person. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "All the sky, air, fire, air, land, water, everything, that is My expansion." Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Sarvam means everything. And mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni: [Bg. 9.4] "They are staying on Me." Just like the sunshine is on the sun. As soon as sun sinks, the sun, there is no sunshine. Similarly, the sunshine appears to be very big and the sun globe appears to be small, but the whole sunshine is depending on the sun globe. Similarly, the whole exhibition of impersonal representation-earth, water, air, fire, sky, so on, they are all depending on God. There..., therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "Everything that you see, that is My expansion, and everything is resting on these elements." Therefore He says, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni, nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ: [Bg. 9.4] "But personally I am not there." And standing on this vast land or in the ocean he is in God, but personally he cannot see. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Personally I am not present there, although he is standing on Me." Oh, Kuntī also says that, that "You are within and without, but still, the fools cannot see. Only the paramahaṁsas can see You." That is in Kuntī's prayer you will find. (aside:) Find out this Kuntī's prayer. Perfect knowledge.



Hayagrīva: (to Hari-śauri:) Why don't you give the verse? Why don't you just give, give the verse, read, give the verse numbers for the typist.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hari-śauri: Uh... Canto One, Chapter Eight, text 18, 19 and 20. So I'll just do the English, or the overall verse?



Hayagrīva: Read the English.



Hari-śauri: "Śrīmatī Kuntī said: O Kṛṣṇa, I offer my obeisances unto You because You are the original personality and are unaffected by the qualities of the material world. You are existing both within and without everything, yet You are invisible to all. Being beyond the range of limited sense perception, the eternally irreproachable factor covered by the curtain of deluding energy, You are invisible to the foolish observer, exactly as an actor dressed as a player is not recognized. You Yourself descend to propagate the transcen..."



Prabhupāda: That is very good example. His father is playing on the stage, and the son is seeing, and another, another friend is seeing, saying, "Do you see your father?" Then "Where is my father?" He, he, he does not recognize his father. Very good example.



Hari-śauri: Then, uh, third verse, "You Yourself descend to propagate the transcendental science of devotional service unto the hearts of the advanced transcendentalists and mental speculators, who are purified by being able to discriminate between matter and spirit."



Prabhupāda: Advanced transcendentalists, they can understand. Not these speculators with limited sense perception. Finished?



Hari-śauri: Hm.



Prabhupāda: The speculators have no knowledge. (laughs)



Hayagrīva: Yes. He says, "It is not so much that God is in everything but rather that everything is in God."



Prabhupāda: That's another foolishness.



Hayagrīva: What is this position?



Prabhupāda: He is inside and outside. He is within and without.



Hayagrīva: Why should it be more one way than the other?



Prabhupāda: Because there is nothing but God, so how he can be without God? Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is God's expansion. How it can be sometimes in God and sometimes not in God? When he is not in God, that means he is māyā. Now māyā is also God, mama māyā. So how he can be without God? That is illusion. Just like these criminal. He thinks, "I can be independent of the government." No. That is not possible. Either he will remain in jail or outside the jail, you are under the government. But he thinks that "I am free." That is foolishness. He is not free at anytime.



Hayagrīva: Now he analyzes theism, which is the personal aspect, and pantheism, the impersonal aspect, and he finds both defective in themselves, and so what is his position? This is his position: "If the question is asked whether the speculative conception of God or Deity which has been advanced here as part of the empirical treatment of space/time, and has appeared to be verified by religious experience belongs to theism or pantheism, the answer must be that it is not strictly referable to either of them. Taken by itself..."



Prabhupāda: That is his mistake. As you have explained that the sky is also with reference to God... The sky is explained as the heart of God, and the water is explained as the semina of God, the moon is explained as the mind of God, the sun is explained as the eyes of God, the land is explained as the foot of God. So everything is with reference to God. So for a person who understands God, there is nothing existing without God. So how God can be separate? That is the fact. So pantheism or any "ism" you take, it has reference with God. What he says?



Hayagrīva: This, he goes on to say, he says it doesn't belong, strictly belong, strictly belong to theism or pantheism. "The answer must be it is not strictly referable to either taken by itself, that in different respects it belongs to both, and that if a choice must be made, it is theistic," that is personal, "for God for us is..."



Prabhupāda: That, that means when you come to the personal God you see that everything is with reference to God. There is nothing independent. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaro. That is explained, that this viśvarūpa universe is Bhagavān, but it appears that it is different from Bhagavān to the less intelligent. So then there cannot exist anything without Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but those who have no sufficient knowledge, they think that "This is separate from God and God is separate from you."



Hayagrīva: He says, "God is both body and soul..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: "...and His soul is His Deity. Since God's body is the whole of space/time, God, in respect of His body, is all*-inclusive, and all finites are included in Him, and in their continuous connection as pieces of space/time, and linked by spacial-temporal continuity they are fragments of God's body, though their individuality is not lost in it."



Prabhupāda: This is right. This is right. This experience he has got very good work.



Hayagrīva: "God is an individual being just as man or any other finite is..."



Prabhupāda: And now he is coming to that.



Hayagrīva: "...only that He is infinite."



*Prabhupāda: He is, He is person, but He is not a person like us. But sometimes, due to our poor fund of knowledge... That is explained, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. "These rascal, because I am here talking with Arjuna just like a human being, they are thinking that I am also a human being." No. He is infinite, Arjuna is finite. That is explained in the Fourth Chapter also, that "Arjuna, you are doubtful how I can remember that I spoke this philosophy to sun*-god some millions of years ago." Naturally a finite man cannot remember how one can remember. "That is the difference between you and Me, that I know everything; you forget. So although you are living being eternal, I am also living being eternal, that is the difference between you and Me."



Hayagrīva: He says, "God's body is not spaceless nor timeless, for it is space/time itself."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything emanates from Him, so there is nothing separate from God. God includes everything. That is the conception of God. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Everything has emanated from Him.



Hayagrīva: This is the final point. He says, "Concerning the existence of the evil..."



Prabhupāda: This description is very nice.



Hayagrīva: The description on the...?



Prabhupāda: The last description.



Hayagrīva: That last description. That the living entities are fragments of God's body...



Prabhupāda: Everything...



Hayagrīva: ...but their individuality is not lost.



Prabhupāda: Everything that you will see, they are all part and parcel of God. The other day I was saying that the wheel, the whole wheel is resting on the axle. So axle is there, the wheel is moving, so everything is part and parcel of God. Therefore the Māyāvādī's philosophy that everything is one, yes, but they do not accept the variety. The wheel is one, that's all right, but still the parts, sometimes it is called spokes, sometimes it is called the rim, sometimes it is called the hub, sometimes it is rolling, sometimes it is stopped, but everything the wheel, nothing but wheel.



Hayagrīva: He goes through a lot of, a lot of speculation to arrive at the final point. Concerning the existence of evil and suffering in the world, he writes, "God is not responsible for the miseries endured in working out his providence, but rather...



Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. The miserable condition is created by us, and we suffer.



Hayagrīva: Yes, he says, "rather, we are responsible for our acts."



Prabhupāda: We suffer. Just like the silkworm, he creates a cocoon and becomes entrapped and dies. He is creating this fiber, silk fiber, and becomes entrapped. That is his creation.



Hayagrīva: A co...



Prabhupāda: What is called? Cocoon?



Hayagrīva: Yes, a cocoon.



*Prabhupāda: He becomes entrapped. So similarly, mṛtyu*-saṁsāra-vartmani. Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Because he is acting independently without caring for God's instruction, then he is entangled; he suffers. That is the position. God has not created this suffering; he has created his suffering.



Hayagrīva: That's the end of Alexander. (end)





MILL.HAY



John Stuart Mill



Hayagrīva: This is John Stuart Mill. In his essay on nature Mill writes, "The order of nature, in so far as unmodified by man, is such as no being whose attributes are justice and benevolence would have made with the intention that his rational creatures should follow it as an example. It could only be as a designedly imperfect work which man in his limited sphere is to exercise justice and benevolence in amending." So Mill concludes...



Prabhupāda: In man dealing, not with any other living beings, only man.



*Hayagrīva: Well man, Mill concludes that conformity to nature has no connection whatever with right and wrong, and that man must amend nature. He must not act according to nature, but must*-the word he uses is "amend"...



Prabhupāda: Yes, amend. Not only amend. The nature, that we discussed, almost always, the nature is animal nature. But man must be above the animal nature. That is rationality. Normally a man is called rational animal, so he should advance in rationality. Just for eating, eating is common to the man and to the animal, but man should be advanced, what kind of eating it should be. Not only natural, although natural tendency is... Just like man, some of, not all, some of them want to eat meat. So rationality is that "If I have got better foodstuff, why shall I kill that animal?" This is then rationality. But because he can eat meat, he can kill animal, he should go on killing animal, that is less intelligence. God has given so many nice foodstuff. Take for fruits, there are varieties of fruits Kṛṣṇa has given to the mankind, and we can utilize milk in so many nice preparation. So the fruits are not eaten by the animals. The dogs, cats, they do not eat fruit. It is meant for human being, so similarly there must, discrimination is the better part of valor. Is that not English proverb? So man should have discrimination, and especially for eating. I think George Bernard Shaw wrote one book, You are What You are Eating.



Hayagrīva: You are what you eat.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So the eating, about, there must be rationality, not to be carried by the nature's way. Nature's way, a man can eat anything, and they are eating also at the same time. The other day I saw in the airplane one Marwari gentleman he was eating the intestine of the hog. What is called?



Hayagrīva: The what?



Prabhupāda: Intestine of the hogs.



Devotee: Hogs' intestines.



Prabhupāda: What is that called?



Hayagrīva: Hogs intestines?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: People eat pig's feet also, that's a...



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: A very favorite, the feet of pigs.



Devotee: Pig's trotters.



Prabhupāda: Feet.



Hayagrīva: Pig's feet.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: That's considered a delicacy.



Prabhupāda: So this way they have developed their consciousness. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, nānā yoni brahman kare kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare, this cycle of birth and death is that, that he comes to a species of life, he eats the most abominable food. So that, that is to be prohibited in human life. That is checking the natural instinct and to become rightly rational, what to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex, how to defend. This is also animal propensity. Above that he should search out about the Absolute Truth, then his rationality is properly used. Otherwise he remains animal.



*Hayagrīva: He further writes, "The truth is that there is hardly a single point of excellence belonging to human character which is not decidedly repugnant to the untutored feelings of human nature." So he felt that virtues are not instinctive in man, virtues like courage, cleanliness, self*-control, these virtues have to be cultivated. They're not...



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in the human society there is educational system. Man has to be made a right rational animal. Although he is animal, he has to be educated in nice way. That depends on education, system of education, but in that connection studying the whole world's education system, the Vedic education is perfect. Therefore every man should be educated as they are instructed in the Vedic literature and a summary of Vedic literature is Bhagavad*-gītā. So every man should read it as it is without any unnecessary interpretation. That will make the man perfect educated.



Hayagrīva: Mill envisions God at war with evil, and man's role is in aiding or helping God in this war. He writes, "If providence, or God, is omnipotent, providence intends whatever happens and the fact of its happening proves that providence intended it. If so, everything which a human being can do, is predestined by providence, and is a fulfillment of its designs. But if, as is the more religious theory, providence intends not all which happens, but only what is good, then indeed man has it in his power by his voluntary actions to aid the intentions of providence."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Providence desires only good. The man, the living being, is in this material world on account of his imperfect will. God is very kind that even though he is willing imperfectly to enjoy this material world God is giving him a directed facilities. Just like a child wants to play in certain way, still the child is guided by some nurse, or some servant by, engaged by the parent. So our position is like that. We have come to this material world to enjoy, giving up the company of God. So God has allowed him, "All right, you enjoy and experience. When you will experience that this material enjoyment is not good, then you will again come back." So He is guiding the enjoyment of the living being, especially of the human being so that he may again come back to home, back to Godhead. And nature is the via media agent, under the instruction of God. So if he (is) too much addicted to misuse the freedom, then he is punished, and that is also according to his desire. It is not God's desire that a human being become a pig, but he develops such mentality to eat everything. So God allows him to do everything, to eat everything up to stool in the body of a pig. That is God's concession. But he wanted to eat all this nonsense abominable thing so God gives him the chance that, you take this body of a pig, you can eat up to steel, up to stool. You will not find any difficulty to eat stool. In this way, God is seated in everyone's heart, He is noting down his desires, and to fulfill his different types of desire, God is ordering material nature to give a particular body and his repetition of birth and death in different species...



*Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of Mill. He writes, "Limited as, on this showing, the Divine power must be, by inscrutable and insurmountable obstacles due to the existence of evil." Mill concludes that the existence of evil in the universe, or what he considers to be evil, pain and death, excludes the existence of an omnipotent God. He sees man in a position to aid the intentions of providence by surmounting his evil instincts. So God is not all*-powerful, infinite in His power. If He were, there would be no evil, according to Mill.



Prabhupāda: No. God, evil is created by God undoubtedly, but the, it was necessary on account of the human being as, misuse of his free will. God gives him good direction but when he is disobedient, then naturally the evil power is there to punish him. Therefore the evil is not created by God but still it is created. It is necessary. Just like the government constructs the prison house. So this prison house creation is not the government's intention. Government wants that university is sufficient, people may be educated and highly enlightened, but because some, not all, misuses the independence, little independence, he creates evil circumstances, and he is compulsorily put into the prison house. Similarly, we suffer on account of our own evil activities but God, being Supreme, He punishes us for our evil activities. For God there isn't... When we are under the protection of God, there is nothing evil, only good thing. There is no evil. So God does not create evil but man's evil activities obliges God to create an evil situation.



Hayagrīva: To create what?



Prabhupāda: Evil situation.



Hayagrīva: The Christian, there's a Christian conception of God as being at war with Satan, and it appears also that Kṛṣṇa was at war on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and there were wars between the demigods and the demons, but in the Vedic literatures these wars do not seem to be taken as serious confrontation between God and God's enemies, but Kṛṣṇa seems to fight the demons in a playful mood. This isn't the case in Christianity.



*Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is all*-powerful. So His fighting with the demons is, actually it is play. It doesn't affect His energy. Just like a small child is fighting with his strong father. So one slap by the strong father is sufficient to the small child. Similarly the fighting of the demons with God is like that. He gives some chance to play fighting but one strong slap to the demon is sufficient. So there is no question of fighting with God. He is omni-powerful, omni-competent, omni... But the demons are there disobeying. When the living being becomes too much disobedient and harassing to the obedient persons or devotees, then it is necessary that God kills them. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. That two business is going on, to chastise severely the demons, non-devotees, and to give protection to the devotees. That is the idea of fighting with the demons and the demigods. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām, whenever there is such fight, God takes side of the demigods.



Hayagrīva: Mill pictures it more like a struggle but there's no struggle with them.



Prabhupāda: Struggle, the struggle is there, because it is the... Demon means they are always against God's ruling. That is demon. And demigod means who will accept the rulings of God. That is the difference. In the śāstra it is said that there are two kind of human being, one is called demigod and the other is called demon. The demigods are those who are abiding by the Lord, order of Viṣṇu, and just the opposite number, they are called demons.



Hayagrīva: But he pictures God as struggling.



*Prabhupāda: God has nothing to struggle. He is so powerful that He has nothing to do. That is the Vedic injunction. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. The Vedic description of God is like this, He has nothing to do. That is right because just like a big man, a big leader, a king, personally he has nothing to do. He has got so many servants, secretaries, ministers, soldiers, so why he has got to do anything? So he has nothing to do. That is described in the Veda, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. There is nothing to do actually. Therefore we see Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa picture, the Supreme Lord He is playing on his flute and enjoying. That is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), that is Vedic description, that God is always enjoying, ānandamaya. He has nothing to do. So, because na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate, he has nothing to do because, na tat ca samaḥ abhyadikaś ca dṛśyate, because nobody is greater than Him, nobody is equal to Him. Then how things are happening? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. He has got multi-energies. The energies are acting and they are acting so nicely, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca, and the, naturally it is happening, so systematic, so nice. Just like by God's order the sun has to rise early in the morning, exactly in the time. You watch your watch and you will find exactly in time there is sunrise and there is light, there is seasonal changes, everything in order. That is Godly arrangement. So He hasn't got to struggle, He hasn't got to fight but there is fight by His different agents to kill the evil element of the world.



Hayagrīva: In his Utility of Religion, Mill writes about the power of authority.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: And the enormous, what he calls the enormous influence of authority on the human mind. "Authority is the evidence on which the mass of mankind believe everything which they are said to know except facts of which their own senses have taken cognizance. It is the evidence on which even the wisest receive all those truths of science or facts in history or in life of which they have not personally examined the proofs. Whatever is thus certified to them by authority, they believe with a fullness of assurance which they do not accord even to the evidence of their senses when the general opinion of mankind stands in opposition to it."



Prabhupāda: Authority, that is authority. You can not defy it or you can not deny it. That is authority. We are presenting our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on this principle, that you should carry out the orders of the authority, and Kṛṣṇa or God is the Supreme authority. Whatever He is speaking, instructing to the human society, they must accept it without any wrong interpretation. That will make them happy. So those who are sane persons, they do not hesitate to accept the authority of God and they become happy simply by abiding by the orders of the authority. And those who are following exactly the instruction of the Supreme Authority, they are also authority. So that is the difference between the Supreme Lord and spiritual master. Spiritual master is servant authority, and God is the master authority. Therefore sevyā bhagavān, sevā bhagavān. Just like government officer, a servant authority, and the king is the master authority. So if one follows the instruction of the authority and teaches the people in general the same principles, then he becomes servant authority or the spiritual master.



Hayagrīva: Concerning morality, Mill writes, "Belief then in the supernatural, great as are the services which it rendered in the early stages of human development, that is for children," because he says early religious teachings "has owed its power over mankind rather to its being early than to its being religious." That is you can train a child...



Prabhupāda: Religion means to carry out the orders of God. This is the simple definition of religion.



Hayagrīva: But the power over man, he says, is due to early training.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already said, that there are two authorities, one God the master authority and God's representative is the master author..., is the servant authority. So it is the duty of the servant authority to preach the instruction of God. That will make the human society happy, and this instruction should be taught from the very beginning of life. That is said in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja was teaching God consciousness when he was five years old only and he was teaching amongst the class friend. The class friends wanted to play in the tiffin hour and Prahlāda Mahārāja asked them to sit down and to learn God consciousness. So the class friend protested, "My dear friend, why you are insisting now? We are now children, let us play." That Prahlāda Mahārāja protested, "No, no, you should not waste your time playing because this God consciousness should be learned from the very beginning of life." Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very childhood Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be learned. Why from the, so early, that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. He says that this human form of life you have got after many, many millions of births so we should not misuse this opportunity. We do not know when we shall meet next death, but if before meeting the next death we make our life perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that is the special boon to this human form of life. We should utilize it.



Hayagrīva: He says, "Belief in the supernatural, great as though the service is which it rendered in the early stages of human development, cannot be considered to be any longer required either for enabling us to know what is right and wrong in social morality, or for supplying us with motives to do right and abstain from wrong." That is God is not actually necessary for a sense of morality and in communist countries today we see that they instill a social morality in their citizens that is devoid of any conception of God.



Prabhupāda: Morality means to abide by the orders of God. That is real morality. Other things which we manufacture, that you will find different in different countries. But religion and morality both of them are the same principle because religion means to carry out the orders of God, and morality means only the, I mean the principle to fulfill the desires of God. Just like in the battle of Kurukṣetra, Arjuna was considering, "Killing is immorality." But when he understood by the instruction of Kṛṣṇa that this fight is necessary as it is designed by Kṛṣṇa, so this is morality. Ultimately, morality means to carry out the desire of Kṛṣṇa or God. He knows what is morality. This, another example can be given, that in the warfield the soldier is there and the commander is there. The commander is asking, kill the enemy, and if he considers that "Killing is bad, why shall I kill the enemy?" That is immorality. He should be immediately killed by martial law. He is disobeying the order of commander. So similarly, what you get, orders from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if you carry it that is morality. Any other things manufactured by you, that (is) immorality.



Hayagrīva: He believed that there is no intrinsic value in the belief of the immortality of the soul, because he said, "What..."



Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is not philosophical neither rational. If he cannot understand immortality of the soul, then he keeps himself in the animal kingdom. He is not even human being, what to speak of his education and philosophy.



Hayagrīva: He concludes this because he says, "Those who believe in the immortality of the soul generally quit life with fully as much, if not more reluctance, as those who have no such expectation." But we have examples, so many classic examples of Socrates quitting, meeting his death courageously, and how could this be possible if he didn't believe in the immortality of the soul or the...



*Prabhupāda: That I have already said, "Immortality of soul is the fact." If one does not understand this fact then he is animal. He is not in the humans category, he is animal category. He is experiencing daily how the soul is continuing even the body is being changed. In his family, he is seeing that the body of a child is changed into the body of a boy, but the father, mother know that the soul is the same. So where is the difficulty to understand the immortality of the soul? So that means it is less intelligence. Therefore, according to Vedic description, one who does not understand immortality of the soul he remains in the category of animals, sa eva go*-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].



Hayagrīva: Well he seemed to think that belief in the immortality of the soul, belief or knowledge or whatever...



Prabhupāda: It is not belief. It is not the question of belief. It is the question of fact. Just like a man if he says, "I don't believe that I shall become old," then that is his ignorance or foolishness. He must become old man, or the body must become old. So if a man thinks that, when I shall become old, that is immortality of soul, that when I shall become old means when my body will become old. He will continue. It is common sense affair. It is a fact. Where is the question of belief or not belief?



Hayagrīva: Well, wouldn't knowledge...



Prabhupāda: This is knowledge.



Hayagrīva: ...of immortality...



Prabhupāda: This is perfect knowledge.



Hayagrīva: Yes. Wouldn't knowledge of immortality...



*Prabhupāda: If somebody thinks that "In future, fifty years after, I shall become old man," this is knowledge. And if somebody thinks that "No, no, I shall never become old," that is ignorance. Although it is future*-a man of knowledge knows that this will be future. So I shall continue to live in future, and I was a child in the past, and I am a middle aged man at this time, so in these three, past, present and future, I am existing. Where is the difficulty? If this simple truth one cannot understand, that what kind of human being he is? I remain in the past as child, the body is finished. Now I am a middle-aged man or young man, the body is different. And in future I shall become old man, that body will be different. So I, as a child, I, as a young man, as an old man, I am the same, all the bodies changing. This is the fact. Who can deny it? So where is the difficulty to understand it? And in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "Both you, Me, and all these soldiers, they existed in the past, and they are present existing, and in future they will continue to exist. This is immortality. He says when, I mean very openly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This living soul, he is never born. That body is changed, that is called birth. But the soul is immortal. So he never takes birth, he never dies. "No, I see that he has died." No, that is the annihilation of his body. Take it from me that by the annihilation of the body, the soul is not dead. This, this is authority and this is, we have to accept this authority. If you don't accept authority, if you have no reason to understand how the soul is immortal, then what we are, except like the animals? So one who does not believe or cannot understand, he is no better than animal. He has no knowledge. This is the beginning of knowledge. Then other (indistinct). First of all one must understand what he is. If he does not know what he is, he is wrongly directed. He is taking care of the body. Just like he, the cage and bird. If you simply take care of the cage without taking care of the bird, is that very good knowledge? That is foolishness.



Hayagrīva: Let me uh... [break] What he is saying here that he doesn't believe that knowledge or belief in the immortality of the soul, gives one courage at death, more courage at death.



Prabhupāda: No. First of all knowledge means to understand the fact. If you do not know the fact then on this wrong background all your knowledge is (indistinct). If the foundation is wrong then what is the value of such knowledge. Therefore the first knowledge is one should understand that he is not this body, he is soul.



Hayagrīva: We should stop. [break] ...Mill was not only a utilitarian but a humanist, and he says, "A religion of humanity can have as excellent an effect, perhaps even to a greater extent, than a supernatural religion." The religion of humanity would cultivate unselfish feelings. That is a religion without God, religion with man at the center.



Prabhupāda: So without God, how it can be religion? Religion means, I have already explained, the order of God.



Hayagrīva: Finally on immortality and miracles, he says that there is no evidence for the immortality of the soul and none against it, but...



Prabhupāda: How he can be convinced? There are so many evidences. That is the misfortune of the human society. A learned person like Mill, he cannot understand, what to speak of the others. This is simple truth. Any child can understand but due to misfortune they cannot understand.



Hayagrīva: And finally he says, "The whole domain of the supernatural, the whole domain of the supernatural, of religion is removed from the region of belief into that of simple hope."



Prabhupāda: No. It is neither hope nor belief. It is fact. To us at least, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, it is fact because Kṛṣṇa is coming and giving instruction to Arjuna, and that is recorded, and we are reading that. So where is it is belief or fiction or something? It is fact.



Hayagrīva: He believed that if man could not, by the exercise of his own energies, improve both himself and his outward circumstances, that is if man could not improve the world to do more good for his, to do good for himself and other creatures, vastly more than God had in the first instance done, the being who called him into existence would deserve something very different from thanks at his hands. In other words that if man couldn't improve the world, then...



Prabhupāda: How it can be improved? One man may be good, religious, abiding by the orders of God, and 99.9 percent, they are Godless. So how it can be improved? This material world, as it is, it can be improved only by the increase of percentage of God conscious men, otherwise there is no possibility of improvement. Every man is differently conscious. So you cannot bring them together. For example, just these modern civilized nations, they are struggling in the United Nation Organization, but they could not do for the last thirty, forty years. That is not possible. That is futile attempt. Unless people become God conscious, there is no improvement of the world.



Hayagrīva: One last quote from Mill: "I will call no being good who is not what I mean when I apply that epithet," that is good, "to my fellow creatures, and if such a being can sentence me to hell for not so calling him, to hell I will go."



Prabhupāda: I could not follow.



Hayagrīva: Well, in other words that God must be good in the relative sense as I would say, "Oh, this is a good man." If he could not call God good in that relative sense he would not call God good.



Prabhupāda: God is always good. If one does not know the goodness of God then he is imperfect. God is always good, God is always great. That is the version of all Vedic literature. If one does not know God is good, then he is imperfect in his knowledge.



Hayagrīva: So that's the end of Mill.



Prabhupāda: He says this man is good. What does he mean by this man is good? What is the qualification that he has become good?



Hayagrīva: Mill is pretty much a, being a utilitarian, is pretty much a...



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, let us say...



Hayagrīva: ...is pretty much of a materialist, and a good man would work for what he called the greatest happiness principle, that is the greatest happiness for all sentient beings on earth.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: So that would be the good man, would work toward that end.



Prabhupāda: So is there any man who can do good to all others? Is there any man? Any single instance?



Hayagrīva: A man is finite. How can he do good for everyone?



Prabhupāda: Then why does he say this man is good? He is bad in other sense. So how he can say this man is good?



Hayagrīva: Christ said that no man is good.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.



Hayagrīva: there's only one good. That's God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. You are thinking that this man is, so how he is good? He is limited in his power. He may think of his brother, of his nation, of his society but what does he do of other living beings? So how he can be good? A good man, speaking even a man like Gandhi, he is a good man, but when he was approached that stop cow killing, he could not do anything. Although he is advocating non*-violence but he, the violence committing in the slaughterhouse, thousands and thousands of animals being killed, violence, what did he do? So how he is good man? Nobody can be good man.



Hayagrīva: Only a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he abides by the order of the Supreme Good, that's all. If Gandhi could not become a good man, so that as he was killed by enemy, so how the man can be good man? There is no good man, unless he is a devotee of the Supreme Lord, all good. It is physically impossible to become good man, even if he has got the desire. That is not possible. This is our mental concoction. This is good man or bad man. Anyone who is not God conscious, he is bad man, and anyone who is God conscious he is good man. This should be the question. (end)





COMTE.HAY



Auguste Comte



Hayagrīva: ...Frenchman, and he is known as a positivist. He felt that positivism reconciles the heart and the intellect. He felt that theology dealt solely with the heart or the sentiments and that philosophy dealt solely with the intellect, but positivism reconciled the two. He writes, "Positivism proves more efficient than theology yet at the same time terminates the disunion which has existed so long between the intellect and the heart. It is a fundamental doctrine of positivism, a doctrine of as great political as philosophical importance, that the heart preponderates over the intellect. When it is said that the intellect should be subordinate to the heart, what is meant is that the intellect should devote itself exclusively to the problems which the heart suggests, the ultimate object being to find proper satisfaction for our various wants," meaning material wants, as well as spiritual wants.



*Prabhupāda: So we have got from Bhagavad*-gītā that the gross understanding are the senses, though the still finer understanding is the mind, and then intellect, and then the soul. The soul is the original, basic principle of activities. So it becomes grosser, grosser, grosser, and when the soul acts on the platform of senses and body, these are gross activities. So our calculation is the gross activities of the body, then the subtle activities of the mind and still more subtle activities of the intellect, and then spiritual platform. So that is also expressed in another way: pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprākṛta. These are different stages of knowledge. Direct perception, pratyakṣa; then receiving knowledge from others, then..., pratyakṣa par..., aparokṣa, still further Vedic knowledge. Then adhokṣaja, beyond the experience of mind and senses. Then aprākṛta, transcendental, spiritual. These are the different stages of knowledge and different stages of understanding from gross to the subtler forms of life.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "Even the laws of the solar system are very far from perfect. The increasing imperfection of the economy of nature becomes a powerful stimulus to all our faculties, whether moral, intellectual or practical. Here we find sufferings which can really be alleviated to a large extent by wise and well*-sustained combination of efforts." Another way, in other words, man can improve on nature. "Those who look wisely into the future of society will feel that the conception of man becoming without fear or boast, the arbiter, within certain limits, of his own destiny, has in it something far more satisfying than the old belief in providence, which implied our remaining passive." So he felt that man's improvement on nature is better than a passive belief in God.



*Prabhupāda: So he is..., he does not believe..., there is no belief in God is there? There is no question of? No. But our point of view is different: that God is the ultimate decider of everything. That is called daiva*-netreṇa. He may be acting through different agents, but ultimate decision is given by Him. And He is sitting in everyone's heart. He is observing the activities of the individual soul as witness, giving permission. Without God's permission, nobody can act. So He is giving intelligence also, and He is the cause of forgetting. Two things are there, remembering and forgetting. Both these things are coming from God. If He keeps him in forgetfulness, then he cannot remember, and if He gives him the power to remember, he can remember for long, long past activities. So ultimately God is the final director. That is our conception. Man cannot remain independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Everything is being done, impelled by the three material modes of nature, and the ultimate dictator is the Supersoul, or the Personality of Godhead in His localized aspect, situated everywhere in the heart of the living entity, or even within the atom He is there, and His is the supreme director.



Hayagrīva: He says, "The universe is to be studied not for its own sake but for the sake of man, or rather of humanity. To study in any other spirit would not only be immoral but also highly irrational." This is the old Greek Sophist position, that man is the measure of all things.



Prabhupāda: So the man should be inquisitive to understand the Absolute Truth, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Human intelligence is meant for that purpose, that he should find out what is the ultimate source of everything. That is intelligence. What is the other point he said?



Hayagrīva: "To study in any..., to study in any other spirit would not only be immoral but also highly irrational." To study the universe for any other sake other than the betterment of humanity.



Prabhupāda: Betterment of humanity will depend on studying the cosmic nature or not? What does he say?



Hayagrīva: The purpose for studying the universe is to improve nature, is to improve man's situation in nature. To improve the lot of man.



*Prabhupāda: How? How? So far we are concerned, that any living being is destined to a certain position of happiness and distress. By dint of his past activities he gets a particular type of body destined to suffer or enjoy. That cannot be changed. Either you call this fatalism or destiny-every man is destined*-that cannot be changed. His intelligence can change only his position with reference to God. His present position is he is forgetful of God and his relationship with God. So this position, forgetfulness, can be changed, and human life is meant for that purpose. So far improvement of economic condition or other condition, that is already fixed up. One cannot change it. So that is confirmation in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: he is creating his own destiny. Just like it is said, "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Destiny cannot be changed. It is fixed up. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. Anyone who is very expert and intelligent, he should know that destiny cannot be changed, but he can change his position with reference to his relationship with God. At the present moment he is forgetful of his relationship, but by good association, by Vedic knowledge, by training, he can change his position, and in that way he can improve his destiny also, or he can change his destiny. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. A person, by engaging himself in devotional service, he can change his destiny. Otherwise destiny is very strong. It cannot be changed.



Hayagrīva: He draws a distinction between atheism and positivism. He says, "Atheism, even from the intellectual point of view, is a very imperfect form of emancipation, for its tendency is to prolong the metaphysical stage indefinitely by continuing to seek for new solutions of theological problems instead of setting aside all inaccessible researches on the grounds of their utter inutility. In a word, atheism is still concerned with studying the 'why' instead of the 'how,' and positivism, true positivism, is concerned with the 'how' instead of the 'why.' " In other words, he felt that religion quo religion, religion as religion, had best be set aside because religious questions are basically childish. They can never be answered. So atheism is rejected because atheists "occupy themselves with theological problems and yet reject the only appropriate method of handling them." And for him the only appropriate method is to forget the whole thing.



*Prabhupāda: So how can he forget? Atheism will help anyone to improve his position? Just like death. Atheist, if he does not believe in God and God sends him death, how he can counteract it? He has no power to counteract it. We understand from Bhagavad*-gītā that death is God for the atheist. Atheists do not believe in God, but God comes to him as death to convince him that "Here I am." So how the atheist can avoid? How it will improve his present situation by atheistic speculation? So how the atheist can become independent? That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: His philosophy is one of total materialism. He states, "A nation that has made no efforts to improve itself materially will take but little interest in mental or moral improvement."



Prabhupāda: That standard of material improvement, that is not fixed up. One person in the material existence, he is satisfied in certain condition of life. Other man is not satisfied in that position; *he wants a different standard of life. Then the question will be, "What is the standard of material life?" So far our Vedic civilization is concerned, this, the material necessities are there*-eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. These are material necessities, so they are equally visible in animal kingdom or human kingdom-everywhere. It is simply mental improvement of standard, but the standard are different. So what will be the actual standard of materialistic way of life? That is the question.



Hayagrīva: He felt that more..., even more than the vaiśya, the merchant, or the kṣatriya, the administrator, that the man who will usher in positivism will be the working man, or the śūdra. He says, "The occupation of working men are evidently far more conducive to philosophical views than those of the middle classes, since they are not so absorbing as to prevent continuous thought even during the hours of labor." In other words, when a man is working he can think of philosophical issues because he doesn't have to use his mind, oh, like a merchant or a kṣatriya.



Prabhupāda: He, he, he has used this word kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa...?



Hayagrīva: Oh, no. I'm using this.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: He says..., he's speaking of the working man.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Hayagrīva: In this he is a..., he influenced Marx considerably in his belief in the worth of the working man.



Prabhupāda: But so far we have seen that even the working man requires a director. In the present Communist society there is working man and the manager class. So as soon as you have to accept a manager, then simply working man will not help us. There must be a managerial person. Otherwise, how the working man can be, I mean to say, systematically engaged in working?



Hayagrīva: He believed in forming working men's clubs that would be dedicated to the philosophy of positivism. He wrote, "The real intention of the club is to form a provisional substitute for the church of old times." He's referring specifically to the Catholic Church; he's a Frenchman. "Or rather, the working man is to prepare the way for the religious building of the new form of worship, the worship of humanity."



Prabhupāda: What is that humanity? The working man does not know...



Hayagrīva: Humanity is all mankind.



Prabhupāda: All mankind to do what?



Hayagrīva: The worship of humanity, he spoke of, that the working man will usher in or introduce...



Prabhupāda: These stamps are not very clear. What does it mean, "humanity"? To supply the necessities of the human being? Or what?



Hayagrīva: Well, humanity for him is all..., simply every man.



Prabhupāda: Every man is already there. So what does he mean by "every man," "humanity"?



Hayagrīva: All mankind.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, all mankind, but what is that humanity? Humanity is some activities? Or simply taking the whole human being together, that is humanity?



Hayagrīva: All human beings together.



Prabhupāda: Hm. So all human beings together, but each and every human being he has got some individuality. So even if you take all humanity, how the individuality will be the same? That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: Well this is the, also the contention of Communism...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...that all men are basically the same in relation to the state.



Prabhupāda: Yes, they are under the law of state, but his thinking, feeling, willing are not under the state. One man may be thinking just in his own way, another man is thinking in his own way. How this thinking, feeling, willing, psychologically how they can be one? As human being, his quota, he has two hands and two legs and one head. That's all right. But the working of the brain, the thinking, feeling of the mind, they are, they are different. Their every activities... I want to eat something; you want to eat something. Āpan ruci khāo, everyone wants to eat according to his taste. How these things can be adjusted, taking the whole human race together? That is not possible. Everyone has got his individual taste. How you can synchronize them? What is called, synchronize?



Hayagrīva: To reconcile all mankind.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: No one would agree with. No one is in total agreement.



Prabhupāda: That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: But he felt that positivism...



Prabhupāda: Positivism, that we can understand, that every man eats. So they have to eat. That is positive. Every man sleeps; he must sleep. But the thinking, feeling, willing, even in eating, sleeping also, everyone has got his own taste, own method. So how these things will be adjusted? If you force upon them that "You must eat these things," that will create dissatisfaction.



Hayagrīva: You discussed this in Marx.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He felt... When Comte wrote, Communism was in its incipient state, it was just beginning to form under a philosopher called Feuerbach(?), and he felt that Communism and positivism could work hand in hand. He said, "Positivism has nothing to fear from Communism. On the contrary, it will probably be accepted by most Communists among the working classes."



Prabhupāda: Working classes? Only working classes? So why there is managerial class? If they want classless, only working class, then why they require direction and dictatorship? Why these things are required?



Hayagrīva: The dictatorship of the proletariat. This is the new idea.



Prabhupāda: Then anywhere, anywhere, somebody is working and somebody is... Just like in our body even, the hand is working, the leg is working, but the brain is giving direction. That is natural. How the working class will work without the direction of someone, experienced person?



Hayagrīva: Concerning men and women and the qualities, Comte felt that women were inferior physically, intellectually, and practically to men, but that they surpassed men in goodness and love. He writes, "In all kinds of force, whether physical, intellectual, or practical, it is certain that man surpasses women in accordance with a general law which prevails throughout the animal kingdom. If there were nothing else to do but to love, women would be supreme."



Prabhupāda: Hn. So?



Hayagrīva: Is that so?



Prabhupāda: So that is natural distinction between man and woman, so how it can be changed? Woman is meant for certain activities and man is meant for certain activities. So how this can be changed? Artificially if you change it, it cannot be changed. Then, just like woman becomes pregnant, man does not become pregnant. How it will be changed?



Hayagrīva: Well from this he concludes that woman, being dominated by love, is morally superior to man.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: And he considered woman, or all women, to be what he called "The spontaneous priestess of humanity. She personifies in the purest form the principle of love upon which the unity of our nature depends." So the woman is to act almost like the brāhmaṇas, in being a priestess or in charge of the, of the religion of man, being that she's dominated by the heart.



*Prabhupāda: These are all imagination. When woman, when she is misguided, she becomes dangerous. There is no question of love. But one thing, according to Vedic conception life, that women and children are on the same level, so they should be given protection by men. In childhood the protection is from the father, in youthhood the protection is from the husband, and in old age the protection is from the grown*-up sons. So they should never be given independence. They should be given protection, and their natural love for father or for husband or for children, then that propensity will grow very smoothly, and that will establish the relationship with woman and man very happy, and both of them will be able to execute their real function, spiritual life, by cooperation. The woman is known as his better half, so if she looks after the comfort of the man, a man is working and he is looking after the comfort, then both will be satisfied and their spiritual life will progress. Woman is meant for certain duties; man is meant for... Man is meant for hard working, and woman is meant for homely comfort, love. So both of them, if they are situated in their respective duties under proper training, then this combination of man and woman will help both of them to make progress in spiritual life.



Hayagrīva: Comte felt that love of God has always interfered with man's love of women. He says, "Love of God is inconsistent with love for our fellow men, and it was impiety for the knight to love his lady better than his God. And thus the best feelings of man's nature were repressed by his religious faith. Women, therefore, are not really interested in perpetuating the old system of religion."



Prabhupāda: Generally, women are interested in comfortable home life. That is woman's nature. They are not spiritually very much advanced or interested. But the..., if man is interested, and the woman helps the man, either as mother or wife or daughter, then both of them, if the woman remains subordinate and the man is making spiritual progress and the woman is helping the man, then both of them will make spiritual progress. Or the woman, without working for spiritual elevation, because (s)he is helping the man (s)he will share the profit, spiritual benefit.



Hayagrīva: The role of woman he envisioned as that of man's companion. He says, "The first aspect, then, under which positivism considers women is simply as the companion of man, irrespective of her maternal duties," and that this friendship or companionship has as its basis sex. He says, "Conjugal union becomes a perfect ideal of friendship, yet still more beautiful than friendship, because each possesses and is possessed by the other. For perfect friendship, difference of sex is essential as excluding the possibility of rivalry." So he felt that sex, there can actually be very little friendship between men, because there's no sexual basis, that sex is the basis for the friendship between the sexes.



Prabhupāda: Hmm. So woman, sex, there is sex, sexual necessity and the bodily demand. So woman not only give the sex pleasure to the man, but woman should prepare good foodstuff also for the man. The man is working very hard. When he comes home, if the wife supplies him good foodstuff and nice comfort and sex, then the home becomes very happy. That is practical experience. So after hard working, when man comes home, if he finds out good foodstuff and nicely satisfied by eating, and then the woman gives satisfaction by sex, then both of them remain fully satisfied, and then they can improve their real business, spiritual understanding, because human life is meant for making progress in spiritual understanding. Spiritual, first of all they must know that the spirit soul is the basis of material life even, and the body is built up on the soul, and within the body there is soul. This understanding is required both for the man and the woman. Although woman is less intelligent, still, by the help of the husband, he..., she can become intelligent. This we think, we see in the instruction of Kapiladeva. Kapiladeva is the son of Devahūti, and He is engaged in teaching the mother. So a woman, either as daughter, as wife or mother, remains subordinate and gets knowledge from the man, either from the father or the husband or son. Then that life is elevated. We find also in the conjugal life of Lord Śiva and Pārvatī, in the *Purāṇas* we see always Pārvatī is questioning and Lord Śiva is answering. In this way woman is elevated, and the comforts given by the woman, comforts of the tongue, of the belly, and the genital, in this way, cooperative life, both of them becomes advanced in spiritual life.



Hayagrīva: He felt that in the beginning stages at least, of positivism, woman should take the role of God. He says, "From childhood each of us will be taught to regard their sex as the principal source of human happiness and improvement, whether in public life or in private. In a word, man will kneel to women and to women alone. The worship of women, when it has assumed a more systematic shape, will be valued for its own sake as a new instrument of happiness and moral growth. The worship of women satisfies this condition and is so far a greater efficacy than the worship of God."



Prabhupāda: Worship of man, woman.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, to give protection to women. That is not actually worshiping, but maintaining her comfortably, that is the duty of the man. But to worship woman as God, that is not very good proposal. Then he will be henpecked. Worship of God is reserved for God only, not for anyone else. But the exchange, cooperation, between men and women for worshiping God, that is essential. Not that woman should be worshiped like God, or man should be worshiped like God. But the affection sometimes is stressed that you see him as God or see, see her as God. That is sentimental. But God is different either from man or from the woman. Both of them are living entities, both of them meant for worshiping God. Just like sometimes in the Vedic conception the wife is considered as dharma*-patnī, religious wife. Means wife helps the husband in the matter of his religious life. That is found in, still in Hindu family: the man is worshiping the Deity and the woman is helping about the paraphernalia Deity worship, helping the husband so that he can immediately come into the Deity room and begin worshiping comfortably. So woman should always be engaged to assist the man in every respect in his religious life, in his social life, in his family life. That is real benefit of conjugal life. But if the woman does not agree with the man, and the man treats the woman as his servant, that is not good. The man should give the woman all protection and the woman should give all service to the man. That is ideal life, family life, conceived in the Vedic way of life.



Hayagrīva: Comte conceives the worship of woman as preparatory for the worship of mankind at large. He says, "The worship of woman begun in private and afterwards publicly celebrated is necessary in man's case to prepare him for any effectual worship of humanity," and that "Only man is the supreme being. It must not, however, be supposes that the new supreme being is like the old, merely a subjective result of our powers of abstraction. Existence in the true sense can only be predicated of humanity."



Prabhupāda: What is the idea?



Hayagrīva: That man is all there is.



Prabhupāda: Huh? Can you explain what is the idea expressed in this sentence?



Hayagrīva: He wants to do away with the Catholic religion and institute the worship of humanity, or the worship of man. He says that everything else is abstraction, is speculation, and that only man is the..., man is the only existence in the true sense. Atheism.



Prabhupāda: Man is existence?



Hayagrīva: Man is the only existence.



Prabhupāda: Then? There is nobody else? What about the animals? Man is the only existence, and what about the animals? They are also...



Hayagrīva: He doesn't seem to consider the animals.



Prabhupāda: So what, what is the position of the animals? They are also living being.



Hayagrīva: The animals would be subservient to man.



Prabhupāda: Therefore...



Hayagrīva: Man is the..., if humanity is the supreme being...



Prabhupāda: We cannot understand what does he mean, "supreme being" and "humanity." The supreme being is God. The human being is also God? Or what does he mean, "humanity"? What is the clear meaning of humanity?



Hayagrīva: Mankind, all mankind.



Prabhupāda: All mankind? There are millions and millions of mankind. So instead of worshiping God you can worship millions of millions of men. Is it possible?



Hayagrīva: He must mean mankind in a generalized sense.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, but how you can serve the mankind? Suppose if I serve one man, does it..., is it worshiping the mankind? If not, then how you can worship millions of men at a time, or in your life? How it is possible?



Hayagrīva: Well he felt, um, that the worship of humanity could be systematized, just like the worship of God, and he even devised a calendar devoted to the worship of famous dead men, and he felt that the churches could serve for a while as places to carry out these ceremonies. He says, "The buildings erected for the service of God may for a time suffice for the worship of humanity in the same way that Christian worship was carried on at first in pagan temples as they were gradually vacated."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, unless one has got full sense of God, they cannot stick to the worshiping method. And we have got practical experience in Los Angeles that we purchased that church because it was not going on at all. They made plans for Sunday school and so on, so on, but somehow or other it failed. Nobody was coming to the church. At last it was sold to us. Now this same church is there, and the same Americans are there, but at the present moment in our Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa Temple it is always packed up. So what is the reason? The same church is there and the same men are there, but formerly nobody was coming, so that the church was sold to us. Now it is all packed up. What is the reason? The reason is that simply religious sentiment, assembly in the church, will not help us unless there is spiritual life and based on philosophy and full understanding of the goal of life. That will make religion perfect; otherwise no.



Hayagrīva: Here is his conclusion and the last point. He says, "The whole effect of positive worship will be to make men free...," excuse me, "The whole effect of positive worship will be to make men feel clearly how far superior in every respect in the synthesis founded on the love of humanity to that founded on the love of God." In other words, love of mankind is superior to love of, of God, or what is known as God.



*Prabhupāda: The humanity, love of humanity means to raise the humanity to the real understanding of the goal of life. If the humanity or the whole human society kept into darkness as to what is the goal of life, that is not serving humanity, to keep them in darkness. But to enlighten them with knowledge, the ultimate knowledge is understanding of God and our relationship with God and activities in that relationship, that is real humanitarian work. Otherwise, if we keep the humanity in darkness, only within the jurisdiction of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, or that is, that means to keep them in, in the animal atmosphere. But to teach the humanity about real knowledge, that he is not this body, he is soul, the soul is within the body and the nature of the soul, the necessity of the soul, the goal of soul-these things, if actually taken into hand to enlighten the humanity*-that is real service to the humanity. And to keep them in darkness in the animal propensities, that is no service to the humanity.



Hayagrīva: So that's the end of Comte. (end)





MARX.HAY



Karl Marx



Hayagrīva: ...and Śyāmasundara discussed the politics of Karl Marx with you but not the religious attitudes of Marx.



Prabhupāda: He has any religious attitude?



Hayagrīva: Well, he, his father was a Jew, but he became converted to Christianity.



Prabhupāda: His father?



*Hayagrīva: His father, Marx's father. And Marx's mother, however, remained Jewish, and Marx was raised a Christian. But at the age of twenty*-three, after having studied some philosophy at the university, Marx became an avowed atheist. And Hegel, it was Hegel who wrote, "Because the accidental is not God or the Absolute is," and Marx commented on this, "Obviously the reverse can also be said." That is because God is not, the accidental is.



Prabhupāda: God is not?



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: What, what does...?



Hayagrīva: So everything is accidental.



Prabhupāda: Accidental.



Hayagrīva: Hegel said, "Because the accidental is not,..." because nothing is accidental, "God exists." Marx says you can say it the other way around.



Prabhupāda: How, how we, any sensible man can accept accidental?



Hayagrīva: He thought that...



*Prabhupāda: Accidental... Just like a child takes birth, is it accidental? Beginning from the child, so it is not accidental. That there is a father*-mother unity, and then, when the child is born, then how you can say accidental? Nothing is accidental.



Hayagrīva: He felt that man..., it is only man who gives reality to God, or, he said, "the gods."



Prabhupāda: Reality must be there. That we... Just like Mr. Marx, he certainly did not like to die, but he was forced to die. Why it takes place unless there is some superior force? We do not wish to have some accident but there is accident; so how you can check it? So in this way, the conception of God, there is always some superior, and there are many other things, common sense, we discuss daily that the, as the nature, things are going on so nicely, they are not accidentally. There are so many planets in the sky. Accidentally they are not colliding but they are remaining in their position. The sun is rising in due course of time, in the morning exactly in time. So there is nothing accidental. And because things are going on very systematically, so there must be some brain behind it, and that supreme brain is God. How you can deny it?



*Hayagrīva: Marx felt that true philosophy would say, "In simple truth I bear hate for any and every God is its own avowal, its own judgment against all heavenly and earthly gods who do not acknowledge human self*-consciousness as the supreme divinity. There must be no other on a level with it."



Prabhupāda: Human intelligence, unless he comes to the point of the Absolute Truth and the original cause of everything, then how his intellect is perfect? One must make progress. Progress means to go to the ultimate goal. If the human being does not know what is the ultimate cause, ultimate goal, then what is the value of his intelligence?



Hayagrīva: Marx felt that religion is a symptom of a degraded man. He wrote, "Religion is the sigh of a distressed creature, the soul of a heartless world, as it is also the spirit of a spiritless condition. It is the opium of the people. The more a man puts into God, the less he retains in himself."



*Prabhupāda: But practically we see that the Communist are also equally failure, even without God. Now these Chinese and Russians, they are not in agreement. So same thing*-that those who believed in God and those who did not believe in God the difference existed. And now amongst the Communist there are coming out so many section. So the difference of opinion is still there even denying God, without God. So that is not improvement. The real purpose is to understand what is really God is. That is required both by the Communist or the capitalist. Denying God and acting independently, that has not brought any peaceful condition of the human society.



Hayagrīva: He felt, like Comte, that the proletariat, the worker, would eventually eliminate religion, and he wrote, "The political emancipation of the Jew, the Christian, the religious man in general is the emancipation of the state from Judaism, from Christianity, and from religion generally." So that the worker would become the savior of mankind in emancipating or freeing man from a religion that worshiped a supernatural being.



Prabhupāda: So that has not actually happened. Marx is dead and gone. The Communist theory is already there, but they are not in agreement. The Russians are not in agreement with the Chinese men. Why it has happened? The God is not there; the working class is there. Then why there is dissension and disagreement?



Hayagrīva: Marx felt that religion stood between man and happiness. He said, "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. The demand to abandon the illusions about their condition is the demand to give up a condition that requires illusion. Hence criticism of religion is an embryo, or a beginning of a criticism of this vale of tears whose halo is religion." So religion was like a millstone around the neck of man, and that man must free himself of this illusion.



Prabhupāda: Religious system deteriorates, and without any understanding on philosophical basis. Then, if he is apt to, rejects that religion. But we understand that is fact that there is God on the top of all cosmic manifestation activities, and the law given by the supreme head of the cosmic manifestation, that is religion. And if we create our religious system on sentiments only, that will create troubles only and there will be misunderstandings. But actually it is a fact that there is some brain behind all this cosmic manifestation, and if we know what is that brain, how it is working, that is scientific understanding, and the law given by God is religion. That is our simple definition. Religion cannot be manufactured as law cannot be manufactured. So if we do not know what is God, how He is acting, what..., what are His words, how we have to follow that, that kind of religion will be failure.



Hayagrīva: He felt... Marx writes, "The alien being to whom labor and the produce of labor belong, and whose service labor is done, and for whose benefit the produce of labor is provided can only be man himself." And he felt that throughout history that the working man has labored so hard for the construction of temples to God, and this should be changed, that man should work not to build temples to God but for the benefit of man.



Prabhupāda: So unless one understands that abide by the orders of God is the benefit of man... If there is any, any organization... Even in communistic country there are many men working, but there is one director. In the state also there is one dictator, either Stalin or Lenin. A leader is wanted. So the supreme leader is called God. So the Communist cannot do without leader. Even Karl Marx, he is giving leadership. So, so leadership is wanted. There you cannot change. A person, a society is working under the leadership of God or Kṛṣṇa, and a society is working under the leadership of Marx... What is this? Marx?



Hayagrīva: Marx and Engels and Lenin, they were...



*Prabhupāda: And Lenin. So that leadership wanted. Now the question is who will be the leader*-Kṛṣṇa or Lenin? That is to be understood. Without leader, either the Communist or the theist cannot work. So, so far accepting leadership, the philosophy is one. Now the question will remain, "Whose leadership is perfect?" That is to be decided. But the Communist cannot avoid leadership.



*Hayagrīva: Like Comte, Marx believed that atheism was unnecessary because it was negative denial. He felt that socialism is positive assertion. He says, "Atheism no longer has any meaning, for atheism is a negation of God and postulates the existence of man through this negation. But socialism as socialism no longer stands in any need of such a mediation. It proceeds from the practically and theoretically sensuous consciousness of man and of nature the essence. Socialism is man's positive self*-consciousness no longer mediated throught the annulment of religion, just as real life is man's positive reality through Communism." So that Communism really has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.



Prabhupāda: No. Our point is that religion is not sentiment. Leadership has to be accepted, either by the Communist or the theist or atheist. There is leadership. So when the leadership is selected and the direction given by the leader, you can take it as some "ism." So religion is the same thing. When we accept the leadership of God and His direction, that is religion. I don't think on principle the Communist can change this idea. The same leader is Lenin or Stalin, and he is giving his direction, and people must follow it. So where is the difference of philosophy? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there, His instruction is there, and we are following. So where is the difference in fact?



Hayagrīva: In either case there is authority.



Prabhupāda: Authority. So where is the difference in principle? There is no difference, but everyone will say that "I am the best leader." But who will select the best leader? What is the criterion of best leader?



Hayagrīva: Well the basic difference is that Marx believes that there's nothing spiritual; everything is material. He says, "An incorporeal substance is just as much a contradiction as an incorporeal body."



Prabhupāda: That is his ignorance, because this body is dead. That what is the difference between the dead body and the... The same Marx and same Lenin was lying, but because there is no spirit sould it was considered as dead. This is imperfect understanding of the man, of the body. Otherwise, I mean to say, man of sense studies there must be a spiritualism and materialism. Spiritualism..., spirit means the force behind the matter. It can be understood very easily that matter as it is, it is inactive. A machine may be very well made, but without a person, a living being, the machine is useless. So that is the difference between spirit and matter. Matter can be active only in touch with the spirit. Similarly, the body is active when there is soul within the body. This can be easily understood, unless one is very dull. Spirit cannot be denied. [break]



Hayagrīva: He says, "Since only what is material is perceptible, knowable, nothing is known of the existence of God. I am sure only of my own existence." He feels that material life precedes consciousness and gives rise to consciousness. He says li...



Prabhupāda: But he does not believe in spirit soul, is that not? Hayagrīva: He says, "Life is not determined by consciousness but consciousness by life."



Prabhupāda: So what is that life? When the life is absent why this body, the used body, is dead stone only? Has he got any understanding of that, what is that life?



Hayagrīva: He felt that consciousness is basically social. He says, "Consciousness is from the very beginning a social product and remains so as long as man exists at all."



Prabhupāda: Why? Why he finishes? Why does he not exist? What is his answer to this?



Hayagrīva: What's that?



Prabhupāda: So long man exists, but why he ceases to exist? Why he stops his existence, he becomes dead matter, his body?



Hayagrīva: Marx had very little to say about death. He felt...



Prabhupāda: But death is a fact.



Hayagrīva: ...in the continuance...



Prabhupāda: Death is a fact. He is talking so loudly, but as soon as he is dead he cannot speak any more.



Hayagrīva: Well he would say...



Prabhupāda: What is the difference? Why he becomes completely dumb? If somebody kicks on his face he cannot say anything.



Hayagrīva: Well if life..., if consciousness is dependent on life, when life ceases, consciousness also ceases.



Prabhupāda: That's all right, what is that life? Does he know anything? Without life you cannot speak. But he has not established what is that life.



Hayagrīva: Marx opposed Comte's view of the worship of women, and he also opposed the worship of God in nature. He writes, "There is no question of modern sciences which alone, along with modern industry, have revolutionized the whole of nature and put an end to man's childish attitude toward nature as well as to other forms of childishness. The position as regards to the worship of female is the same as nature worship."



*Prabhupāda: But how the science or the scientific brain has surpassed the laws of nature? Has man stopped the nature's action*-birth, death, old age, and disease? So how the scientist has conquered over nature? What is the meaning of this conquering? The nature's law is going on. Before Marx, his father died, his mother died, and he also died. So how he has conquered over the nature? The death is continuing.



Hayagrīva: He felt...



Prabhupāda: What is the improvement?



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: What is the improvement?



Hayagrīva: He felt that there has been no improvement because religion has kept man...



Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with religion. It is the work of nature...



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: ...that the man takes birth and he dies. So what the science has revolutionized in this matter? Has the science stopped birth and death and old age and disease? Then what improvement has done? The work is going on. In spite of talking all theories by Marx or anybody, nature's law is still superseding them. So how the science and others, they have surpassed the laws of nature?



Hayagrīva: Well, he felt that modern industry had made men...



Prabhupāda: Industry, whatever you take, industry. Does it means when a man takes to industry he does not die? How he has conquered over the laws of nature?



Hayagrīva: He couldn't say. How can he say?



Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.



Hayagrīva: He felt that industry or science could make man happier by emancipating man from...



Prabhupāda: We don't think so because in the industry the worker are not satisfied. They are, they are observing strike. Why? If there is happiness, why there is strike?



Hayagrīva: He felt... Well this... Of course Marx wrote before Communism came into actual existence as a, as a political institution, so he's simply theorizing.



Prabhupāda: Still, his theory, he...



Hayagrīva: He's never, he's never, he never saw Communist Russia for instance, or any Communist state. He, he felt that religion has..., was the cause of antagonism between men. He says, "The most persistent form of antagonism between the Jew and the Christian is religious antagonism." How has one solved an antagonism by...



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: ...by making it impossible?



Prabhupāda: There is not the question of antagonism. If we actually know who is God and what He desires... I give always this example: if we know the government and the government laws, then there is no antagonism. The government says that "Keep to the right," so there is no question of antagonism; *anyone must keep to the right. So there is no question of antagonism. But the antagonism is there when the so-called religious system does not know what is God and what is actually the desire of God. Then there cannot be any antagonism. That perfectness of understanding God and God's regulation or order is clearly described in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are therefore advocating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Here is God and here is God's instructions." So if we deliver it, and the proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are all practical. Just like God says that you divide the society in four division*-not only worker, but also the good brain, good administrator, and good producer of food. That is the actually the divisions of the society. So without division of the society, if you simply keep worker, who will give them instruction to work? These are all imperfect ideas. But the perfect ideas are given in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we follow that, then the human society, humanity will be in perfect order. So either you call it religion or a system to..., following which one can become peaceful. Religion means, to understand God means, a system. A system is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in three principles. God says that He is the proprietor of everything, sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. So we see this planet, and there is different proprietors-individual proprietor of the land or the state proprietor, the king. So there is a proprietor of this earth, either you divide it nationally or you take it wholly. So similarly there are many, many millions of others, so they are called sarva-loka. So there must be a proprietor. So if we know who is that proprietor and how He is working... That is also stated, that the supreme proprietor is the supreme friend of everyone. So if we find out the supreme proprietor, supreme friend, and if we understand the proprietor is the enjoyer of everything, that is real religion. Then peace will prevail. But if we do not know who is the proprietor, what is His function, what is our relationship with Him, that we create antagonism. Somebody will say, "My religion is better," somebody will say, "My religion is better." But we most of all first, first of all know what is religion. Religion, we say, that the order given by the supreme proprietor and to live according to, according to that order, that is religion. If you do not know what is religion, what is the use of criticizing religion or creating antagonism?



*Hayagrīva: Well, evidently Marx never got over the antagonism between his father and his mother*-his mother who was Jewish and his father who was a Christian convert. He says, "As soon as Jew and Christian recognize their respective religions, there is nothing more than different stages of evolution of the human spirit, as different snakeskins shed by history, and recognize man as the snake who wore them. They will no longer find themselves in religious antagonism but only in a critical scientific and human relationship. Science constitutes their unity. Contradictions in science, however, are resolved by science itself." So that, in other words, science, material science, is to replace this religion, and religion is to be shed by mankind just as a snake sheds its skin. And in this way the antagonisms created between Jew and Christian or, or Hindu and Muslim are reconciled.



Prabhupāda: Reconciled can be only when you actually know what is God. Simply by stamping oneself Christian, Jewish, or Hindu and Muslim, without knowing who is God and what is his desire, that will naturally create antagonism. Therefore the conclusion is, as Mr. Marx giving stress on science, so we should understand scientifically what is religion, what is God. Then this antagonism will stop.



Hayagrīva: He felt that the state should eventually assume the role of Christ. He said, "As Christ is the mediator on whom man unburdens all his own divinity and his whole religious burden, so also the state is the mediator on which man places all his unholiness and his whole human burden." So, in other words, that Christ, of course, relieves man of all his burdens and his sins through his message of salvation, and instead of Christ it would be the state that would assume this role.



Prabhupāda: So Christ gives the knowledge how one can be relieved of the material burden. That is the business of all religious preacher. The religious preacher should give information to the people in general the exact position of God or idea of God, and when people will learn scientifically about God's existence and his relationship with God, then everything will be adjusted. That is wanted. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give people exact idea of God, exact definition of God, and exact instruction of God. If we take that, take to that, then our religious life will be perfect.



Hayagrīva: The last point is... And this is a point that most Marxists tend to ignore because Communism, when Communism comes to power, they, oh, like in Tibet, I believe when the Communists came in they abolished...



Prabhupāda: All religious system.



Hayagrīva: The Dalai Lama had to flee to India, I believe, and the Tibetan Buddhists had to...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: They had a temple in Delhi.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Well, he says, Marx says, "The incompatibility with religion with the rights of man is so little implied in the concept of the rights of man that the right to be religious according to one's liking and to practice one's own particular religion is explicitly included among the rights of man. The privilege of religion is a universal human right."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: So he felt that man should at least be allowed to practice his religion, although he felt that the state should encourage the abolition of religion. That it is an inherent human right for man to be able to practice religion...



Prabhupāda: That, that I explain always, that state duty is the freedom of religion, but the state must see that a person advocating particular type of religion, whether he is acting according to that religion...



Hayagrīva: But he felt that if this religion should be allowed, it should be individual and not communal. He says, "Liberty as a right of man is not based on the association of man with man but rather on a separation of man from man. It is the right of separation..."



Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of separation, that if we accept God as the supreme father. Now the Christian religion believes God as the supreme father. So if the supreme father is there, and if we become obedient to the supreme father, then why, where is the difference of opinion? But we do not know the supreme father and we do not obey the supreme father. That is the cause of dissension. The son's duty is to become obedient to the father and enjoy father's property. So if we know the supreme father, and if we live according to the father's order, so there is question of antagonism, dissension. It is all our own, father being the center. That, the difficulty is that we call supreme father but we do not accept the father's order or what is the order of the supreme father. That is the defect.



Hayagrīva: Well he felt that if man, if man is going to worship God, if man must worship God, he should do so privately, individually, and not communally.



Prabhupāda: No, if God is a fact, and man must worship God, then why not communally? That he, he is pleading that every individual man shall manufacture his own God and worship.



Hayagrīva: Well he would rather do..., do away with the whole thing.



Prabhupāda: No, that is impossible. God means, as I have explained, the supreme father. He is the father of every man or every living entity. So how the father can be different? If man manufactures a different... There are ten sons in the family; the father is one. It is not that one son say, "No, I shall select my own father." So what kind of father he is? So that is imperfectness of understanding the father. Nobody can say that "I can select my own father." How it is possible? Father is one. Similarly God is one, and if one is actually religious and obeying the same one father's order, then where is dissension? That the difficulty is nobody knows who is that supreme father, neither they are prepared to obey the orders of the father. That is the difficulty. In one family there cannot be two father. The one father. Similarly, when you speak of the supreme father, "O father, give us our daily bread," He is father of everyone. So why one should select one father, another man will select another father? That means he does not know who is father. That is the defect.



Hayagrīva: Well he was hoping that this process would eventually lead to the total dissolution of religion.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: That if everyone worships..., well not everybody, but if you must worship God, worship Him in your own way, in your own home.



Prabhupāda: So dissolution of religion means animalism. That has happened actually, because one does not know what is God, soon there is misunderstanding of religion. Therefore if he, actually anyone is serious about religion, then they should sit down together, that "We call God as supreme father, then why should we fight ourselves? Let us obey the order of the supreme father." Then there is no dissension. But they do not do that, neither they know who is the supreme father. That is the defect.



Hayagrīva: You have been to Communist Russia, and was there any church worship? The Eastern Orthodox church used to be the standard Russian religion. Is there any church worship in Russia today?



Prabhupāda: I, I, I did not see, but I saw some mosquelike building in the, what is called, Red Square. I saw that building, but that is vacant. They are worshiping Stalin, no, Lenin. Yes. They are worshiping Lenin's tomb. That I have seen in the Red Square. And there was a church or mosque, I do not know. The building is, can be called a church or mosque...



Hayagrīva: Church.



Prabhupāda: That was vacant.



Hayagrīva: It's more like a museum.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: They keep it as a museum.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have seen. I don't think there is any worship of church.



Hayagrīva: But there must be some... There must be some people in Russia, since God is...



Prabhupāda: They may be doing private, privately. Or I did not see.



Hayagrīva: Well at least now some people are interested in purchasing your books in Russia.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...



Hayagrīva: What does this mean?



Prabhupāda: It may be because it is Indian culture, and we have quoted from Vedic literature, the original Sanskrit. So they are little after the Indian culture, so when they find that here is the original version in original letters, they may be interested in that.



Hari-śauri: But actually it's a fect that in Russia there aren't many people who still believe in God.



Prabhupāda: No, no. Believe in God, why? Eighty percent, ninety percent, they believe in God. That cannot be avoided.



Hayagrīva: But don't the... The young people are Communists, are very enthusiastic about Communism, but as a person grows older and sees death as inevitable, don't the, don't the older people worship...?



Prabhupāda: No, even the young men, in Russia I have seen, they are after also God. They are unhappy because they are not allowed to go out of Russia. They want to see the world, but they are not allowed. Their independence is suppressed. So they are not happy.



Hayagrīva: That's the end of...



Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)





JAMES.HAY



William James



Hayagrīva: This is William James. All of these quotations are taken from his most famous book, which was entitled The Varieties of Religious Experience. He's an American philosopher. He defines religion in this way: "Were we to limit our view to it, we should have to define religion as an external art, the art of winning the favor of God. The relation goes direct from heart to heart, from soul to soul, between man and his maker."



Prabhupāda: The man or not man, there are living beings, varieties; *we simply do not see the man as a living being. We see there are varieties of living beings, beginning from water up to the higher planetary system. There are different forms of living being, we have several times repeated. Jalajā nava*-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, like that, nine millions, ah, nine hundred thousands forms of body within the water; then plants, trees, creepers, insects. So all of them are living beings. God is concerned with all of them. Why man is created? Every one of us in different form we are created. Or exactly not created; *we are part and parcel of God. In one word God is the father of all living entities. So the simple relationship is that God is maintainer, we are maintained. This is our relationship. In the material world, as a man may have more than one wife, so similarly God has two prakṛtis, or subordinate energies*-material and spiritual. So in the material world the material nature is the mother, God is the father, and varieties of living entities, they are all maintained by the father, supreme father. This is the conception of universal brotherhood. And if we understand our relationship with God as father and son... There are so many sons. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu. All different forms of life, the mother is material nature, and God says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "And I am the seed-giving father." So that relationship should be known, and if we act according to that relationship, there will be actual peace and prosperity and advancement of all knowledge. That is wanted.



*Hayagrīva: Concerning the founding of religions, James writes, "The founders of every church owe their power originally to the fact of their direct personal communion with the Divine. Not only the superhuman founders*-the Christ, the Buddha, Muhammad-but all the originators of Christian sects have been in this case. So personal religion should still seem the primordial thing even for those who continue to esteem it incomplete."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. God is person. If He is the supreme father, the father is a person. We have got no experience of father being imperson. My father is person, his father is person, his father is person. In this way go on, father's father's..., searching. So the ultimate father is also person. There is no doubt about it. Either human father or animal father, every living being is a person. Therefore the right conclusion is God the father of all living being is person. Personal conception of God is there in every religion*-Christian religion, Muhammadan religion, or Vedic religion. In the Vedic religion, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayoḥ. Those who are sura, means advanced in spiritual knowledge, or the brāhmaṇas, one who knows the Supreme, they find the supreme father is Lord Viṣṇu. Lord Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa is the same category, or same substance. So God is person and the ultimate end. The impersonal realization is imperfect realization of God. The Supersoul realization is still advancement, but the final advancement is Bhagavān, or person God. So we must know our relationship with, and first of all our first business is to know God and our relationship with Him, then act accordingly. Then our life becomes perfect. This is the process of God realization.



Hayagrīva: James saw religion as the source of philosophy. He writes, "Since the relation of man to God may be either moral, physical or ritual, it is evident that out of religion in the sense in which we take it, theologies, philosophies, and ecclesiastical organizations may secondarily grow."



*Prabhupāda: So philosophy means advancement of knowledge. So we are making progress in knowledge when our knowledge is actually come to the point of perfection of knowledge, that is understanding of God. God is there, but on account of our foolishness, sometimes we deny the existence of God. That is the most foolish platform of living condition. But sometimes we have vague idea, some imagination, and sometimes impersonal, sometimes pantheistic. In this way different philosophies means they are searching after God, but on account of not being perfect, there are differences of opinion or different conception of God. But actually God is person, and when one comes to that platform-to know God, to talk with Him, to see Him, to feel His presence, even to play with Him*-that is the highest platform of God realization. And the relationship is God is the great and we are small. So our position is always subordinate. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of William James.



Prabhupāda: So to carry the orders of God is religion. So the more this fact is realized, that is perfection of religion, and dharma, religion, is perfect when he understands who is God and how to learn to love Him.



sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yenātmā samprasīdati

[SB 1.2.6]



When we actually understand God and try to please Him, serve Him, that is really religious life and perfection of life.



Hayagrīva: James gave the following estimation of impersonalism and Buddhism. He wrote, "There are systems of thought which the world usually calls religious and yet which do not positively assume a God. Buddhism is in this case. Popularly, of course, the Buddha himself stands in place of a God, but in strictness, the Buddhistic system is atheistic."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, sammohāya sura-dviṣām [SB 1.3.24]. Lord Buddha appeared at a time when people became atheistic, and especially they began to kill animals in the sacrifice in large quantity. So God, Lord Buddha, appeared, being sympathetic to the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. He was very, very much aggrieved to see the poor animals are being killed unnecessarily. So he preached the religion of nonviolence, and because the people became atheist, so Lord Buddha, just to take them under his control, he also collaborated and said, "Yes, there is no God, but you hear me." But he is incarnation of God, so it is a kind of transcendental cheating that in the beginning he said there is no God, but he is God himself, and people accepted his words or instruction. That is Buddhism. So this very word is used, sammohāya sura-dviṣām [SB 1.3.24]. Sura-dviṣām, atheist class of men, are always against theist class of men. Therefore their name is that atheist means who are envious of devotees. So in order to cheat these persons who are envious of God or devotee, Lord Buddha appeared and established a system of religion on the platform of nonviolence-no more animal killing. Because those who are animal killers, they cannot understand God (indistinct). That is not possible. They may have some vague idea. So Lord Buddha wanted to stop these sinful activities, and he established the system of nonviolence.



*Hayagrīva: James writes about religion and total surrender and involvement. He says, "In the religious life surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused. Even unnecessary givings*-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our life can so successfully fulfill."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Without religion the human society is animal society. So religion must be there, and religion means to understand God, to learn how to love God, how to obey His orders, and actually real religion means to accept the order of the Supreme Lord, God. Therefore in the Bhagavad*-gītā this fact is taught. God is personally teaching that "You become My devotee, always think of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, "worship Me," mad-yājī, "and if you cannot do anything more, you simply offer your obeisances unto Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Without any big, I mean to say, attempt for religious system, if one has got the idea that there is God, and even without seeing Him if he follows His instruction, always think of Him... Either you think of Him as personal God or as localized or all-pervading, but God has got form. One has to think of the form of the God. That is easier. And if God is accepted as impersonal, that is very troublesome. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyakta āsakta cetasām. Those who are impersonalist, for them to think of God becomes very difficult job. Who is God and what to think of, so the so-called meditation is very difficult. But if you have got really conception of a God, just like we have got Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Although He has got different incarnations, forms, He is the Supreme, so we think of Him. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We can think, because we have got the form, we have got the Deity in the temple, we have got the picture in our room, and so we have got definite conception of God and definite instruction of God. So this system, following the Bhagavad-gītā, is definitive understanding of God, so people may take this system, and by practical example they can see how those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, how they are advancing in the religious system, in every system, because God has instructed everything-religious, political, social, cultural, philosophical, science, physics-everything perfectly. God, God means He gives perfect instruction. So this perfect instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, we, we have accepted. Not accepted; we have known. God is there; you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. So those who are fortunate, they will see the actual form of God, follow His instruction, and be perfect in the life. That is wanted.



Hayagrīva: James sees happiness as an integral part of religion.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Happiness is this. When you know God, follow God, you become happy. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as is one actually God-realized person, he is immediately happy, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means happy. There is no more duality, that distress, like that. He is perfectly happy, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā is described as na śocati na kāṅkṣati: there is no more hankering, no more lamentation. Everything is perfect condition. Samaḥ sarveṣu: there is no distinction between man to man, nation to nation, animal to man, because in perfect state, the one who is actually religious, he is no longer interested only in the human society, but he knows that everyone within this material world, either man or animal or trees, they are all living entities, part and parcel of God. They are different forms only. In this way he has got clear understanding, clear dealing and clear life, clear advancement, and clear success. That is perfection of life.



Hayagrīva: He says that the natural existence often proves itself to be basically unhappy. "With such relations between religion and happiness, it is perhaps not surprising that men come to regard the happiness which a religious belief affords as a proof of its truth. If a creed makes a man feel happy he almost inevitably adopts it. Such a belief ought to be true; therefore it is true. Such, rightly or wrongly, is one of the immediate inferences of the religious logic used by ordinary men."



Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are actually in clear conception of God, and if you have decided to obey God and love Him, that is happiness. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, ahaituky apratihatā [SB 1.2.6]. This process of acting in obedience to the order of God, as we are doing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... We have no other business than to obey the orders of God. God says that you preach this confidential philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness everywhere. So because we are trying to love God, we have got some affection and love for God; therefore we are so much eager to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, "It is Kṛṣṇa's business. Why should we bother about Him?" No. Because we love Kṛṣṇa, and He is happy that His message is being spread, that is our happiness also, that we are trying to serve God, tacitly, without any doubt. So we also feel happy, and God says that He will be very happy if you do this. So this is reciprocation. This is religion. Religion is no sentiment. Actual realization of God, actual carrying out or executing the orders of God, then God is happy, we are happy, and our progress of life is secure.



Hayagrīva: He sees the lover of God as being a morally free person. He writes, "As St. Augustine's maxim, 'If you but love God you may do as you incline,' is morally one of the profoundest of observations, yet it is pregnant for such persons with passports beyond the bounds of conventional morality."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very nice. Morality means to execute the orders of God. If God is satisfied then it is moral. Otherwise our so*-called convention in this material conception of life, "This is good," "This is bad," they are described as mental concoction. We must have clear orders from God, and if we execute it for the satisfaction of God, this means, in other words, morality means the action which satisfies God, the Supreme Lord. That is morality. And if he does not satisfy the Lord, then it is not morality; *it is immorality. We therefore sing every day yasya prasādād bhagavat*-prasādo **, and the orders of God is carried through the representative of God, spiritual master, because directly we have no connection with God. The spiritual master is the transparent via media between God and ourself. In our perfect stage, of course, we can talk with God, but in the beginning, neophyte state, there is no such chance; therefore we have to take instruction from the spiritual master who has got direct connection with God. And if we satisfy the spiritual master, this means we have satisfied God. That is happiness.



Hayagrīva: Concerning evil, James writes, "Evil is a disease, and worry over disease is itself an additional form of disease which only adds to the original complaint. Even repentance and remorse, affections which come in the character of ministers of good, may be but sickly and relaxing impulses. The best repentance is to up and act for righteousness and forget that you ever had relations with sin."



Prabhupāda: Yes. The final morality is... What in this portion?



Hayagrīva: He feels that evil is a disease first...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...but worry about evil is just an orig...



Prabhupāda: Another.



Hayagrīva: ...just another disease.



Prabhupāda: So disease, when you are in diseased condition, it means increasing suffering. Disease increases. Without treatment disease increases, as fire, without being extinguished, without attempt of extinguishing the fire, it increases. Debt, compound interest, increases. So therefore the instruction is that disease, fire, and debt should not be kept as it is without any attention. The attention must be there to see that it is not increasing, it is being completely extinguished. That is intelligence. So therefore we must know our suffering is on account of disobedience to the orders of God, or on account of becoming irreligious. So we must find out the real system of religion, and we, there is already, but on account of our ignorance it is now covered by material contamination. Otherwise our relationship with God is a fact. We are thinking independently. That is foolishness. The demons, or the atheist class, they falsely think independent of the orders of God; *therefore they are forced to accept which they do not want. Ultimately they are forced to accept the punishment*-birth, death, old age, and disease-but still, atheist class, they deny existence of God. That is their foolishness. Actually God is there, His order is there, and if we are deficient in carrying out the order, we should take the instruction of bona fide spiritual master, the representative of God, and we should execute it, and then we become happy.



*Hayagrīva: He sees two basic types of religions. One he calls sort of a naive optimism that says "Hurrah for the universe. God's in His heaven, all is right with the world." He calls this "the sky*-blue optimistic gospel." And another type of religion, which he calls pessimistic in the sense that these religions recognize the inevitable futility of materialistic life, and they offer deliverance, or mukti, from the fourfold miseries of material existence. He says, "Man must die to an unreal life before he can be born into the real life." So he felt that the completest religions take a pessimistic view of life on this..., life in this world, materialistic life.



Prabhupāda: Yes, unless one is pessimistic of this material world, he is animal. A man knows what are the sufferings of this material world: ādhyātmic, ādhibautic, ādhidaivic. There are so many suffering pertaining to the mind, to the mind, sufferings offered by other living beings, and sufferings imposed forcibly by the laws of nature. So the world is full of suffering, but under the spell of māyā, illusion, we accept this suffering condition as progress. But ultimately whatever we do, the death is there. All the resultant action of our activities, they are taken away and we are put to death. So under these circumstances there is no happiness within this material world. I have fully arranged for my happiness, and any moment, just after arrangement, we are kicked out; *we have to accept death. So where is happiness here? The intelligent man is always pessimistic, that "First of all let us become secure," that we are trying to adjust this material position to become happy. But who is going to allow us to become happy here? This is pessimistic view. And then further advancement of knowledge is there, and when he understands the orders the orders of Kṛṣṇa, sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], to surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and after surrendering and understanding Him fully, then we go to the world which is full of bliss, knowledge and eternal life, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya. That is perfection of life. So unless we take a pessimistic view of this material world, we shall remain attached to it, and there will be repetition of birth and death-sometimes high-grade life, sometimes low-grade life, but this business is very, very disturbing. We make some arrangement to live here permanently, but nature will not allow us. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. We work very hard; there is unhappiness. And sometimes we may get good results, sometimes bad results, sometimes frustration, so where is happiness? Happiness is only to understand God and act according to His advice, and then go back to home, back to Godhead. That is happiness.



Hayagrīva: James writes of the characteristics of a sādhu in this way. He says, "There is a certain composite photograph of universal saintliness, the same in all religions, of which the features can easily be traced. They are these." And he numbers, "Number one: a feeling of being in a wider life than that of this world's selfish little interests; in a conviction not memerly intellectual, but as it were sensible of the existence of an ideal power. In Christian, saintliness this power is always personified as God." So that's the one characteristic of a sādhu.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: A feeling of being in a wider life than that of this world's selfish little interest.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. God, the definition of God is there in the Vedic literature, that God is the great. The Christian idea is also that. That greatness, that if we soberly think what is the greatness, the greatness in six opulences, that God is the richest, God is the strongest, and God is the famous, and God is the wisest, and God is the most beautiful, and God is the perfect renounced. He has got so many states, sarva*-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29], but still He is not very much interested within this material world. He is in spiritual world along with associates. Therefore our proposition is, let us go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is perfection of life.



*Hayagrīva: His second characteristic of a sādhu is thus: "He has a sense of the friendly continuity of the ideal power with our own life in a willing self*-surrender to its control."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the ideal. Kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara chāḍi' anācāra. We are member of the same family. God is the supreme father. That is ideal society. What does he say further?



Hayagrīva: The uh... What?



Prabhupāda: Second point.



Hayagrīva: Oh, the second point again? "A sense of the friendly continuity."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Friendly continuity means the, there are so many relationship, five relationship. First relationship is the master and the servant, and then friend to friend, then son and father, and then beloved and the lover. So these are all friendly relationship. We can, when we are actually in God relationship, we have got natural instinct to accept any one of them. So our friendly relationship with God can be chosen. Somebody likes sometime as friend to friend, father and son, or beloved and the lover, master and the servant, and the Supreme and the subordinate. They are five relationship. Any one of them, when we are actually liberated, free from material contamination, we being eternal part and parcel of God, the particular relationship is revived. That is called svarūpa*-siddhi, revival of our original relationship with God.



Hayagrīva: Three, he speaks of, "An immense elation, or happiness, and freedom as the outlines of the confining selfhood melt down."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. This material selfishness is māyā. Actually that is not selfishness. Real selfishness is to know the relationship with God. But persons who are engrossed with the spell of māyā, illusory energy, they do not know that. Mostly, 99.9%, they have vague idea of God, and how they will know the relationship? So, so that our actual business, first business is to have complete idea, complete sense of God and our relationship. That is the business of human life. Therefore in the Vedic process, the real business is realize God. Either you take yoga system or jñāna system, and bhakti is cent percent simply realization of God. That is the business of human life. He hasn't got to do any other thing. That is practical understanding of God. A perfect human being knows that "My necessities of life is supplied by God, so I have no business to improve the economic condition." That cannot be done also. Nobody is going to be very rich, all of them. According to the destiny he gets his position. So one who is self-realized, he does not want to improve the material condition of life, but he wants to improve the spiritual conception of life. That is human life.



*Hayagrīva: Four, he sees, "a shifting of the emotional center toward loving and harmonious affection, toward yes and away from no, where the clangs of the non*-ego are concerned." That is to say, agreeing with God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. God is asking always that "You agree to obey My orders," and as soon as we accept this principle, we immediately becomes liberated: "Yes, from this point I shall now fully agree to the the orders of Kṛṣṇa, or God." That is liberation. The liberation is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā: to give up a mode of life other than devotional life. Muktiḥ hitvā anyathā rūpam. Our life is meant for rendering devotional service to the Lord. As soon as we give up this principle of life, devotional service to the Lord, that is our anyathā rūpam, means our living condition otherwise, except devotional service. That living condition otherwise than the devotional service is called conditioned life. And as soon as we come to this platform of devotional service, that is mukti, liberated life. Muktiḥ hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. To remain in one's own constitutional position is called mukti, or liberation. [break]



Hayagrīva: James believes that the existence of many religions in the world is not regrettable but is necessary to the existence of different types of men. He says, "All men have, should have... Should all men have the same religion? Ought they to approve the same fruits and follow the same leadings? Are they so like in their inner needs that exactly the same religious incentives are required? Or are different functions allotted to different types of men, so that some may really be the better for a religion of consolation and reassurance whilst others are better for one of terror and reproof?" And he goes on to conclude that he thinks that difference...



*Prabhupāda: This is religion. Therefore I was talking in this morning that accept God as the supreme father and the material nature is the mother and we living entities, in 8,400,000 forms, we are all sons of God. So everyone has got the right to live at the cost of the father. The father is the maintainer-that is natural*-and we are maintained. So every living being should be satisfied in the condition given by God. Man should live in his own condition, the animal also should live in his own condition. Why the man should encroach upon the rights, living right of other living entities like the animals? No. Nobody should encroach upon other's right. Everyone is son of God. Let him be maintained by the orders of God. That is ideal life, family life. All living entities are the members of the same family. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara chāḍi' anācāra: just live in the family of Kṛṣṇa without violating the rules and regulation. Then it is family life. Or without violating the orders of God. Just like in the family the father is the chief man, and the sons can live very happily by being obedient to the father. There is no trouble; father will give all supplies and necessities if we remain obedient to the father, and all the brothers can live peacefully. A very common example. But they will not do that. They will encroach upon others' jurisdiction. That is the cause of disturbance: obeying..., disobeying the orders of God.



*Hayagrīva: Typical of the latter part of the nineteenth century, James' only acquaintance with Hinduism was through the impersonalists, and he spoke of samādhi and the mystical experience in this way. He says, "The Vedantists say that one may stumble into superconsciousness sporadically without the previous discipline, but it is then impure. The test of its purity, like our test of religious value, is empirical. Its fruits must be good for life. When a man comes out of samādhi they assure us that he remains enlightened*-a sage, a prophet, a saint, his whole character changed, his life changed, illumined." What is this samādhi or...



*Prabhupāda: Samādhi means ecstasy, always in God consciousness. That is samādhi. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata āntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. The yogis means they are always remaining in meditation of the Supreme Lord. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā. Mind is always absorbed in God. That is samādhi. He has no other thought than God. So if we can continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is samādhi.



Hayagrīva: Now James equates this mystical union, or samādhi, to be a union in which the individual has lost contact with the external world.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: And he therefore concludes that mystical states cannot be sustained for long, except in rare instances. Half an hour or at most an hour or two seems to be the limit beyond which they fade into the light of common day. "Often, when faded, their quality can be but imperfectly reproduced in memory, but when they recur it is recognized, and from one recurrence to another it is susceptible of continuous development in what is felt as inner richness and importance."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That richness comes to perfection when one thinks of Kṛṣṇa constantly, without any cessation. That is recommended in the yogic chapter of the Bhagavad*-gītā:



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate

yo māṁ sa me bhak...

[Bg. 6.47]



Uh...



Hari-śauri: Yuktatamo mataḥ.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hari-śauri: Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ?



Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. You can find out that verse.



yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

*mad*-gata āntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate (yo māṁ)

sa me yuktatama...

[Bg. 6.47]



*He is first*-class yogi who does not cease to think of Kṛṣṇa, or God. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we keep always in the thought of Kṛṣṇa, twenty-four hours. Then we do not fall down from the yogic principle. That is our...



Hayagrīva: Such mystical states, as James points out, have been also experienced momentarily and artificially through drugs such as ether. William James himself took ether...



Prabhupāda: These are all artificial thing. This is not sustained.



Hayagrīva: LSD and these...



*Prabhupāda: Another artificial names. Artificial things cannot sustain, but if you engage yourself in the devotional process, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevā [SB 7.5.23], always hearing a about Kṛṣṇa, always talking about Kṛṣṇa, always remembering about Kṛṣṇa, always engage in some service in the temple-there are so many services*-or distributing literature about Kṛṣṇa, in this way, if you keep always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business, that is perfection of life.



*Hayagrīva: James, after analyzing all of these religions, different religious experiences, he gives his own conclusions, and he concludes his book in this way. He gives five basic conclusions. The first*-one-"That the visible world is part of a more spiritual universe from which it draws its chief significance." [break]



Prabhupāda: Yes. Material world means it is existing in the spiritual effulgence of the Lord. Just like all the planets they are resting, living within the sunshine, but by geographical position, when it is back side, the sun is not in the front but in the back, then it becomes dark. Similarly, everything is existing in the spiritual effulgence, rays of the Lord, and when you forget, this is called material world. So the material world is in that piece of spiritual world, but forgetfulness of God is material. So when we..., our revival of consciousness, God consciousness, then there is no more material world. For such person who is advanced in spiritual consciousness or God consciousness, there is nothing material; everything is spiritual.



Hayagrīva: Well that's his second conclusion. His second is that "Union or harmonious relation with that higher universe is our true end."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual realization.



Hayagrīva: Three...



Prabhupāda: There is no material realization. No more material realization means no more forgetfulness of our eternal relationship with God. Then it is spiritual.



Hayagrīva: Three: "That prayer or a communion with the spirit thereof, be that spirit God or law, is a process wherein work is really done and spiritual energy flows in and produces effects, psychological or material, within the phenomenal world, for religion produces a new zest which adds itself like a gift to life and takes the form either of lyrical enchantment or of appeal to earnestness and heroism." In other words, our relation with God in the world gives...



Prabhupāda: That we have al...



Hayagrīva: ...it's like a gift to life.



Prabhupāda: ...already explained. We have got five relationships. To realize the creation of God with awe and veneration, appreciation, that is one relationship. This is called śānta rasa. Then further progress is that to offer himself to serve God. That is called dāsya rasa. And further advancement, to treat God as friend, that is sākhya rasa. Then accept God as son, that is vātsalya rasa. And accept God as the most beloved, that is mādhurya rasa. So in this mādhurya rasa, to accept God as the most beloved includes other relationships; therefore here is the highest perfection of relationship. Although all other relationships they are as good, but it depends on the devotee's choice whichever relationship we like. The result is the same, but by comparative study it has been decided by the saintly persons that our relationship with God as the lover and beloved, that is the highest position.



Hayagrīva: The fifth is an assurance of safety and temper of peace and, in relation to others, a preponderance of loving affections.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice. When you actually come in contact with God, these senses prevail. What is that? The last point?



Hayagrīva: An assurance of safety and a temper of peace.



Prabhupāda: Yes. A devotee is always confident that "I am sincerely serving Kṛṣṇa, so in case of danger Kṛṣṇa will save me." The, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja life we see. He was helpless child, and his father, great demon, always chastising him, but he was confident that Kṛṣṇa would save him. So when the things became too much intolerable, so Lord appeared as Nṛsiṁhadeva and killed Hiraṇyakaśipu. So therefore a devotee's protection by God is always guaranteed, and one who is pure devotee, he is not disturbed by any material condition. He keeps his firm faith in God. That is called surrender. It is called avaśya rakśibe kṛṣṇa viśvāsa pālanam, to continue the faith that "Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." This full suvrender means to accept things which is favorable to God consciousness, to reject things which is unfavorable to God consciousness, to have firm faith of security under the protection of God, to enter into the family of God. These are the different processes of surrender.



Hayagrīva: He concludes, "In opening ourselves to God's influence, our deepest destiny is fulfilled. The universe takes a turn generally for the worse or for the better in proportion as each one of us fulfills or evades God's demands."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is concept. God demands that "You fully surrender unto Me." So when one fully surrenders unto God, that is perfection of life.



Hayagrīva: So that's the conclusion of James. (end)





DEWEY.HAY



John Dewey



Hayagrīva: This is John Dewey, who believed that religions were basically myths and that experience is of the utmost necessity. He felt that philosophy was superior to religion. He writes, "The form ceases to be that of the story told in imaginative and emotional style and becomes that of rational discourse, observing the canons of logic." So it's apparent that Dewey considers religion simply to be a story told in imaginative and emotional style, and for him philosophy observes the canons of logic. So for him the Vedic accounts of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes would be imaginative and emotional, or mythic. How does one argue against this kind of a...?



Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is historical fact. It is not imagination. It is, to think like that, is imaginative. Kṛṣṇa... The *Mahābhārata* is there. It is accepted by all Indian authority, and Kṛṣṇa is a historical figure. How it can be imaginative? So... he may think like that, like a madman, but India's leader will not accept that. Especially the ācāryas who are controlling the spiritual life of India, they do not accept a lunatic foreigner speaking like that.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "According to the religious and philosophic tradition of Europe, the valid status of all the highest values, the good, true and beautiful, was bound up with their being properties of ultimate and supreme being, namely God. All went well as long as what passed for natural science gave no offense to this conception. Trouble began when science ceased to disclose in the objects of knowledge the possession of any such properties. Then some roundabout method had to be devised for substantiating them." In other words, science began to investigate the phenomenal universe without admitting the proprietorship of anyone, of God, and this brings a breakdown in morality and value. So Dewey attempts to reassemble these shattered values in a philosophical way, but he, like science, attempts to do so without recognizing the proprietorship of an ultimate and supreme being.



Prabhupāda: That is another lunacy, because everything has a proprietor. So why this big cosmic manifestation will not have a proprietor? To accept the proprietor is natural, and that is logical. And not to accept a proprietor, that is lunacy. How it can be possible? Just like we give this example: We are standing on the land. We know that there is government, there is proprietor. And a few yards after, when this ocean begins, how we can think of that the ocean has no proprietor, no government? How any philosopher and man having logic can believe it? What is the answer?



Hayagrīva: Well, he felt that science dealt a death blow to the religions as we know them, to the orthodox religions.



Prabhupāda: No, religion we have repeatedly explained. Religion means to accept the laws of God. That is religion.



Hayagrīva: He re..., excuse me, he refers to historical religion.



Prabhupāda: Historical... It is historical. The whole cosmic manifestation has a date of creation; *therefore it is historical. Anything material which has a beginning, that, that is history, it has got a history. So people do not know how long before this material world or cosmic manifestation was created. It is beyond their conception. Even the mathematical count, millions and trillions and millions, will not do, when he began, but it has got a history*-beyond the calculation of so-called scientist and mathematician, but there is history. According to Vedic description there is history. There is history of Manu, there is history of, of Brahmā. So in this way there is a regular history. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā a small instance of history is being given: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17], that the Brahmā's daytime, just like we have got solar calculation, twelve hours' daytime, so that twelve hours of Brahmā is calculated sahara-yuga-paryantam. One yuga means forty-three hundred thousands of years. Similarly, thousand times, that is Brahmā's twelve hours. So everything is relative. We are tiny people. We have got history of this world, some thousands of years, but Brahmā is greater than the human being. His history is different. Here everything is relative. My history is different from an ant's history. Similarly a man's history is different from Brahmā's history. So historical does not mean whatever you have calculated, that is history. History is relative according to the person. So these people, they have no information of the greater personalities than us, but we have got information from Vedic literature. In the higher planetary system, there the duration of life, standard of life is different from here.



*So in this, on this platform, mostly the philosopher, scientist, they are Dr. Frogs. So their calculation is not correct. So whatever they cannot calculate, they take it as myth, imagination, that just a foreign. Even for ordinary human being to think of Brahmā's duration of life, huh, forty*-three hundred thousand multiplied by one thousand, and that becomes twelve hours of Brahmā, because it is beyond your calculation, he thinks it imaginary. So unless one has got thorough knowledge of the whole universe, so for him it is imaginary. But it..., one man's imaginary may be a fact to the other man. It depends on the knowledge. So unfortunately, the so-called scientists, philosophers on this planet, they are thinking in their own terms and they are taking it final. So they must think other things as mythological, imaginary. But actually that is not the fact.

Hayagrīva: Dewey was an American writing in the early part of the twentieth century, and he writes, "Logic demands that in imagination we wipe the slate clean and start afresh by asking what would be the idea of the unseen." In other words, he feels that it's time to set aside the orthodox, what he calls superstitious religions, and create a new religion. In other words, we must define God and religion anew.



*Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required. Because in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam it is also accepted that except a Vedic religion, all others are cheating religion because they have no perfect knowledge. It is clearly stated that cheating type of religion is rejected from the Bhāgavata religion. Bhāgavata... The sum and substance of Bhāgavata religion is accepting God as the supreme controller. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. This is beginning. And what is that Absolute Truth? Janmādy asya yataḥ, itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ: [SB 1.1.1] that there is a principal, Brahman, from whom everything has come. So unless you find out what is the ultimate source of emanation, the knowledge is perfect, hum, imperfect. But you must have to admit, from your experience, that everything has a source of emanation. Anything has. You cannot go beyond your experience. You see this table. This table has got a history. Somebody has collected the wood and he has made into a shape. So everything that you see, it has got a history. So similarly the whole creation, it has got a history, and to know who has created, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], that is perfect knowledge. If you do not know, if you cannot reach, that is your inability. Don't think that it is imaginary, mythological. That is your imperfect of knowledge. You cannot reach, and you make a conclusion like a crazy man. That is not philosophical at all.



*So there is no question of starting a new religion. The religion is already there, but poor people, they do not accept it. The simple thing is that somebody must be the supreme controller. He is God. And everything under His control. Actually, if somebody asks, "What is your experience?" so the real experience is that we see two things. One thing is matter, inert matter, without any consciousness. Another thing we see, another element: with consciousness. Two things we see. You cannot go beyond this. And above two, these two things, there is one controller*-the third element. The third element is the Absolute Truth, and these two elements, one inert and one living, they are categories. So this is a fact. So the third element, the controller of the living, animate and inanimate, the controller is the Supreme Lord. So this is simple philosophy. Everyone can understand that there is a supreme controller, and both these visible, animate and inanimate objects, they are controlled by Him. This is a simple fact. Why these big, big philosophers cannot understand this? Anyone can understand. What is the difficulty?

Hayagrīva: He says, "What I have been criticizing is the identification of the ideal with a particular being, especially when that identification makes necessary the conclusion that this being is outside of nature," that is, transcendental, "and what I have tried to show is that the ideal itself has its roots in natural conditions. It emerges when the imagination idealizes existence by laying hold of the possibilities offered to thought and action." In other words, there is no God outside of nature. God has His roots in nature.



*Prabhupāda: Why does he say? That is his inexperience. God means supreme controller. So everything is being controlled. So how he can say there is not God? That is his imperfect knowledge. The nature is going on in perfect order, and we have got experience that without being a director, controller... [break] ...first proposition, that the natural phenomena, that is going on in systematic way, and we have no experience anything going on in a systematic way has no controller. How they can think of this big phenomena without any controller? At least any sane man cannot think like that, that it is going on automatically, it is happening automatically. The season is changing in time, the sun is rising in time, the moon is rising-everything is going on systematically*-and how he thinks that there is no controller, there is no God? That is insanity. To become atheist is, means, a greatest insane person. It has no meaning to become atheist.



Hayagrīva: He wouldn't consider himself an atheist, but...



Prabhupāda: Anyone who cannot think of a supreme controller, he is an insane man. He is not a sane man. How he can propose? Where is his experience? Everything is going on under some control. Even this wonderful machine, computer, that requires an operator. So how one can think of without controller things are going on very systematically? This is insanity. It has no meaning.



Hayagrīva: He sees God emerging as man's striving for perfection.



Prabhupāda: No, that God is there. Man's perfection will depend on his ability to understand God. God is already there. It is not that a perfect man is by imagination creating God. Anything created by man, that is controlled. God is the supreme controller. So man is dying under the control of the Supreme, so how man can create God? He is already under the rules of God, that he must die, he must suffer from disease, he must become old. So if he cannot control what is already imposed by God, how he can think of God? How he can create a God? That is also another insanity. First of all you become independent of the laws of God, then you can think of creation of God. You are completely under the supremacy of the Supreme Lord. How you can think of creating God? That is another insanity. So all these atheistic person who are thinking that "We can create God," "God is imagination," they are all insane person.



Hayagrīva: He says, "Use of the words 'God' or 'divine' to convey the union of actual with ideal may protect man from his sense of isolation and from consequent despair or defiance..."



*Prabhupāda: That will never happen. The so*-called unity of man by the imaginative process of so-called intelligent philosopher, it has never become possible, neither it will become possible, because every man has got little independence. So unless they are controlled, they will assert their independence, and by this imaginative process they cannot be united. That is another insanity. History has never proved this in the past, and it is not going on in the present, so naturally in the future it will not be possible. That is sane man's conclusion.



*Hayagrīva: You..., when you discussed Dewey with Śyāmasundara Prabhu, you said that Dewey wants to make God his scapegoat*-why does he mention the word God, and he uses the word God to serve his own ends. His philosophic conception is the working union of the ideal and the actual. This is rather vague, but this is his definition of God: Man striving for perfection.



*Prabhupāda: He can define, but he must be a very, what is called, sane man to define. The sane man's definition of God is there. Just like everyone says, "God is great." So now if he can define what is the greatness... The greatness, if one man is very rich, we consider him great man. If a man is very wise we call him a great man. If a man is very strong or influential or beautiful... Greatness according to our estimation. So all this greatness must be there in God. God must be the richest, God must be the strongest, God must be the most beautiful, God must be wisest. In this way, six opulences calculated, and when these opulences are in completeness, that is God. So that completeness we find in the history Kṛṣṇa. In the history of humanity it is very easy to find out that when Kṛṣṇa was present on this planet, so He proved the strongest, the most influential, the most beautiful, the supreme wise-everything*-supreme famous. Kṛṣṇa's fame, fame is still going on. Kṛṣṇa's knowledge, stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, is still being studied all over the world. This is the proof that He is God. And all saintly persons in India, they are not controlled by these foreign Dr. Frogs. So these big, big ācāryas, like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Śaṅkarācārya, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, all big ācāryas, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord. So there is complete uniformity of the authorities in the past, present and future. So here is God. If one cannot accept Him God, then he is insane. With so many evidences, and it is practical. Many evidences when Kṛṣṇa was present He showed; that is history. But these imperfect Dr. Frog, when they see God is doing something uncommon, they take it "Myth, mythology."



Hayagrīva: Now...



Prabhupāda: God... Huh?



Hayagrīva: They take it?



Prabhupāda: They take it as mythology. Myth.



Hayagrīva: Mythology.



*Prabhupāda: Hah. Just like Kṛṣṇa is lifting the hill, that what is the difficulty for God to lift a hill if He is all*-powerful? But as soon as they read it, that Kṛṣṇa is lifting hill, they will take it as mythology. So when God shows that "I am God," that is mythology, and they imagine God. That is rascaldom. When God comes and shows His godly power, they take it myth, mythology. And they imagine God according to your definition. Is that sanity? The ācāryas have described Him: "Yes. Kṛṣṇa lifted this Govardhana Hill," and they have appreciated. And they are taking as mythology. That when there is Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum ā... [Bg. 9.11]. These rascals, when God shows His godly power, they take it mythology. Just see how much fool they are, and we are to follow these Dr. Frogs.



Hayagrīva: He differs from Comte and Marx in that he did not believe that humanity is the object of worship. In fact, he excludes everything as an object of worship. He writes, "Nature produces whatever gives reinforcement and direction, but also it occasions discord and confusion. 'The divine' is thus a term of human choice and aspiration."



Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of human choice. Can you say that death is my choice? Huh? It is forced. So the, wherefrom the force is coming, that is God. Nobody wants to die, but there is force. You must die. Nobody wants to become old man. You must become old man. The sanity is to find out wherefrom this enforcement is coming. That is Supreme. Just like the government. If you disobey the orders of government, immediately you will be punished. So we can understand there is supreme authority. Similarly, I do not want to die. I am enforced to die. So there must be some supreme authority. That supreme authority is God. Either call nature or God, whatever you call, there is something supreme which is controlling you. How you can philosophize and imagine that man can imagine God, man can imagine this and...? That is insanity.



Hayagrīva: He says, "A humanistic religion, if it excludes our relation to nature, is pale and thin, as it is presumptuous when it takes humanity as an object of worship."



*Prabhupāda: Humanity is not worship. Every, every... According to God conscious person, everything is worshipable, even an ant, but supreme worshipable is God. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So that is wanted. Nature, these persons, they are taking as nature as the Supreme. But those who are actually in awareness of God, they know that God is the controller of nature also. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā, māyadhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Nature is matter. Matter cannot act independently. In the Bhagavad-gītā, as (indistinct), the difference, what is the difference between matter and the living being. The difference is the matter is being handled, controlled by the living being. Therefore living being is the superior nature, and matter is inferior nature. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. This earth, water, air, fire, etc., everything, these are inferior nature. Just try to understand nature. And above this inferior nature there is superior nature. That, the inferior nature, is a vast ocean, but the superior nature, man, has a big ship. The ocean will not allow to walk over it, and they have control over the ocean, not exclusive control, but little control. Because he is living being, he can cross over the big mass of water by inventing some means, so that at least they are controlling to some extent. But above this ocean and the man who is trying to control over the ocean, there is another controller. That is supreme controller. That is God. It is very easy to understand that there are two natures: one, the active nature; inactive nature. And above these both, active and inactive, there is another active personality who is controlling both of them. That we can understand by Vedic literature very clearly. There is no difficulty. But those who are obstinate, they will not accept. That is their misfortune. What can be done? But this is the fact.



Hayagrīva: In the, in the realm of philosophy and religion...



Prabhupāda: In the history we find that Kṛṣṇa went within the sea. Within the sea. Kṛṣṇa penetrated the universe. He is God. God can do that. We have no conception of God, and when God comes and shows His godly power, we take it as mythology. Then what, how God will be proved? When you see Him doing uncommon activities, you say it is mythology; and he does not see, he will say there is no God. This is your position. So this is not sanity. It is all insanity. Let them talk all this nonsense. We do not accept that.



Hayagrīva: He says in the realm of philosophy and religion, certainty is impossible. He says, "The moment philosophy supposes it can find a final and comprehensive solution, it ceases to be inquiry and becomes either apologetics or propaganda. Any philosophy that in its quest for certainty ignores the reality of the uncertain in the ongoing processes of nature denies the conditions out of which it arises."



Prabhupāda: There is uncertain when you do not accept the reality. The reality is God, and God is explaining how things are going on, but you take it as mythology. Then how you will know?



Hayagrīva: No way.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: No way.



Prabhupāda: You are rascal. When it is explained by God Himself, and actually by doing it, you do not accept it. And still you imagine. So your position is very precarious. When God comes Himself and shows Himself, His activities, we think it is mythology. Then how we can be convinced? Direct perception and authority. And the direct perception, when He comes you take it that it is mythology. When the direct perception history is written about Kṛṣṇa in *Mahābhārata*, and then you take it as mythology. Then how he will believe it? And the authority accepts, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. He has done it." You say, "I don't accept it." Then how you will be convinced? What is the way to convince you? Huh? What is the way, possible way?



Hayagrīva: He says, for him he says, "There is but one sure road of access to truth: the road of patient, cooperative inquiry, operating by means of observation, experiment, record, and controlled reflection."



Prabhupāda: Record is there already, *Mahābhārata*, and those who have seen, they have confirmed it. Vyāsadeva has confirmed, Nārada has confirmed. Arjuna talked with Him personally, he has confirmed, and everything is there in the record, but you don't believe. Then how you can be convinced? Neither you have got perfect senses to see. Then what is the way to convince you? You will remain always in darkness. There is no way out. You can, within your dark well, you can go on imagining, Dr. Frog, but you will never have perfect knowledge.



Hayagrīva: Well that's the conclusion of John Dewey. Most of the other points have already been dealt with. (end)





KIERKEGAARD.HAY



Soren Aabye Kierkegaard



Hayagrīva: This is Kierkegaard, who was a Danish philosopher, who lived from 1813 to 1855. He is generally regarded as the father of existentialism. He was Christian. He wrote, or he believed, that if the truths of religion are not innate within man, they must be brought to us by a teacher. If God comes to teach as He is, man would be over awed or over..., overcome. Therefore he comes as a servant of God in human form.



*Prabhupāda: So man's general position is as good as animal. Therefore in the human society there is system of education. But man, being advanced in consciousness, he can be properly educated so that he can understand what is God by the teachings of authority, and that is our Vedic system. In the human form of life-not generally but in special cases*-they are very much inquisitive to understand about God. That is technically called brahma-jijñāsā. inquiring about the Absolute. And that is only possible in the human form of life. Generally, any human being can be educated in the spiritual life or God consciousness, but if anyone awakens his inquiry, as it is stated, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21], if one is actually anxious to inquire about God or the supreme knowledge, then he has to approach a guru. That's a fact. Without approaching a bona fide guru there is no possibility of understanding the nature of God and our relationship with Him. So one has to approach a guru. To accept a guru is not a fashion, it is necessity. If one is actually inquisitive, it is a necessity. So the qualification of guru is also given there, that what sort of guru you should search out. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam [SB 11.3.21]. A guru is he who has taken full training in the ocean of spiritual knowledge or Vedic knowledge, śābde pare. Śābde means the Vedic words, or vibration of sound, but that is not ordinary sound, material sound, but spiritual sound. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, this spiritual sound. So one who has taken full bathing in the ocean of spiritual sound, and how he has realized the symptom of his life is that such guru is no more interested in materialistic way of life. Such guru does not manufacture gold or jugglery words to attract some foolish men and make money. That is not guru. Guru means who has no more interest in material things. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of the Supreme Lord, completely satiating his material desire. So one should approach such guru, then tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. By serving such guru, bona fide guru, and surrendering unto him, and then questioning him, he can make actual progress in spiritual life, and then he understands properly what is God, what is our relationship with Him. That is perfection of human life.



Hayagrīva: But isn't he incorrect in say..., in maintaining that if God comes to teach as He is, man would be overawed; therefore He comes as a servant of God in human form.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: But Kṛṣṇa came as He was and taught.



*Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa came as He was, but people misunderstood Him, because He was talking just like a human being. But people... And they, when He asked sarva*-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], people thought, "It is too much," so they are misguided. Therefore later on He came as a devotee, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to teach how to approach God. That is the function of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya understood His activities, and he wrote about one hundred verses appreciating Caitanya Mahāprabhu's activity, and the first one is,



*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



The, his, he understood Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, while they were talking on the Vedānta philosophy, that Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the same Kṛṣṇa; *now He has come to teach the human society bhakti*-yoga, which is vairāgya-vidyā. Devotional life means renounced life. Vairāgya-vidyā, vairāgya means renunciation. Anyone who has no more interest in materialistic way of life, that is bhakti-yoga. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti... So here is the person, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, in the form of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is none but the same original Kṛṣṇa. He has come to teach us the same philosophy as He did while teaching Arjuna Bhagavad-gītā, but this time He has come as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, another authority, Rūpa Gosvāmī, understood Him, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa, and He is the most munificent incarnation, because Kṛṣṇa, in order to give Himself to the devotee, demanded full surrender. And here Caitanya Mahāprabhu, without any demand, He is not only giving Kṛṣṇa but the love of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya." So Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is affectionate towards us because we are all sons. We are rotting in this material way of life. So He comes Himself, as He is. He comes as a devotee. He leaves His instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Again He advises His devotees to preach the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. So He is always anxious to enlighten the human being how to go back to home, back to Godhead.



Hayagrīva: Kierkegaard wrote one book called Works of Love, in which he saw God as the hidden source of, of love. He says man, "A man must love God in unconditional, in unconditional obedience and love Him in adoration. It would be ungodliness if any man dared to love himself in this way or dared to love another man in this way or dared to permit another man to love him in this way. God you must love in unconditional obedience even if that which He demands of you may seem injurious to you, for God's wisdom is incomparable with respect to your own."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the instruction of Bhagavad*-gītā. God demands that "You give up your own plans or any other's so-called intelligent person's plan or philosopher's plan. Take My plan," sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], "just surrender unto Me fully, then I shall take care of you so that you will not suffer." That is our position. If we fully depend on Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then He will guide us how to make progress back to home, back to Godhead.



*Hayagrīva: As far as defining love, what is love-people speak of love*-he says, "If someone asks what is love, Paul answers, 'It is the fulfillment of the law.' Love is a matter of conscience, and hence it is not a matter of impulse and inclination, nor is it a matter of emotion, nor a matter for intellectual calculation. There is only one kind of love." And he says that is spiritual love.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Love in the material world is impossible. In the material world everyone is interested for his own sense gratification. The love between man and woman, young boy and young girl, that is not love, that is lust, because both the parties are interested in sense gratification. But that is not love. Love means the parties, they will not think of his own sense gratification but the sense gratification of the beloved. That is pure love. That is not possible in the material world, but we see the example of love in the picture of Vṛndāvana. In the Vṛndāvana village, everyone-man, animals and fruits, flowers, water, everything-they are only for loving Kṛṣṇa. They do not want any return from Kṛṣṇa. That is real love, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. If one loves God with some motive, that is material love. Pure love is simply to satisfy the desires of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore in the material world the love, word "love," is misused. The propensity of lusty desires is going on as love. Real love is only with God-individually, collectively, anyway. And that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the supreme object of love, either by adoration or by serving or making friendship with Him, or loving Him as child, or loving Him as beloved-there are five different relationships: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya, mādhurya*-that is real love.



Hayagrīva: And he says, "Ultimately, love of God is the decisive thing. From it stems love to the neighbor. If you love God above else, then you also love your neighbor, and in your neighbor every man. To help another man to love God is to love the other man. To be helped by another man to love God is to be loved."



Prabhupāda: That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are learning how to love God, and we are teaching the same principle to the whole world, without any discrimination, that "God is one." Not that there are different Gods of different faiths. God cannot be two. Eko brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. God is one. There cannot be any competitor. His name is Asamaurdhva; *nobody is equal to Him, nobody is greater than Him. Therefore God is great. Nobody is equal. So in any form of religion, if love of God is instructed, that is first*-class religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion. The test is how the followers have learned to love God. And now God being the center of love and everything being God's expansion, so a lover of God is lover of everyone. He does not discriminate that "Only man should be loved, and man should be given service." No. He is interested with all living entities, never mind in which form he is existing. So he is interested in..., lover of God loves everyone, and the love reaches everyone. The example is given in this connection. Just to water the root of the tree means to expand nourishment for all other parts of the tree, namely the trunk, branches, leaves, twigs, everything. Or to supply food in the stomach means satisfying the necessities of all parts of the body. This is the fact. God being everything, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4], as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, nothing can exist without God, and everything is expansion. Another word is there in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. It is said that the fire remaining in one place distributes its heat and light. Eka-sthāne sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā. The fire can distribute its heat and light although localized in a place. Similarly God, He is in His own abode, but by His energy He is present everywhere. Sarva-vyāpī, all-pervading. The all-pervading feature of God means everything is manifestation of His energy. Nothing can exist without God. But it does not mean everything is God. Everything is resting on His energy, but not everything God. In spite of expanding, God, by His different potencies, He keeps His personality. That is God.



Hayagrīva: Concerning individuality, Kierkegaard writes, "God is the origin and wellspring of all individuality. To have individuality is to believe in the individuality of everyone else, for the individuality in not mine. It is the gift of God through which He permits me to be, and through which He permits everyone to be."



Prabhupāda: That's the fact. He explains..., this fact is explained in the Vedic literature, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), Kaṭha Upaniṣad, that He is also living being and we are also living being. So He is also eternal; we are also eternal. So qualitatively we are one, but quantitatively we are different, because eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: that one, singular number, eternal living being, Kṛṣṇa, or God, He is maintaining everyone. So that is the difference. The one living being, the Supreme Living Being, the great living being, is maintaining other living beings who are part and parcel of the Supreme. So both of us, we are the living beings, individual, eternal, but God is Supreme; we are subordinate. That is difference. So our natural position should be to love God, being part and parcel of God.



Hayagrīva: Concerning the...



Prabhupāda: (aside:) Wind it in the morning.



Hayagrīva: Concerning the purpose of prayer, he writes, "The true relation in prayer is not when God hears what is prayed for, but when the person praying continues to pray until he is the one who hears what God wills."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That's very nice. He becomes qualified to understand God and to talk with God, to take direction of God. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



*teṣāṁ satata*-yuktānāṁ

*bhajatāṁ prīti*-pūrvakam

*dadāmi buddhi*-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti (te)

[Bg. 10.10]



Our ultimate goal is to give up this material world and go back to home, back to Godhead. So this being ultimate goal of life, if we offer prayer to the Supreme Lord... Not only prayer. Prayer is one of the service. This is also nine. There are different, nine kinds of service:



śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

*smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

*sakhyam ātma*-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]



Vandanam. Prayer means vandanam. So this is also service. Either you take all the nine different items, or you take some of them, or at least one of them, then you will make progress in spiritual life. So some of them offer prayers, just like Christians, Muhammadans, they offer prayer. So it is as good as the Hindus give service in the temple, decorates the Deity, cleanses the temple and offers food. In this way they are engaged. This is called arcanam. Arcanam is also devotional service as well as offering prayer. So by this devotional service one makes progress in spiritual life, and when he is sincere in his service, then God is within him, He takes charge of him and gives him instruction how quickly and swiftly he can approach God. So this is fact. Our... He is not hankering after our service. He is complete in Himself. He doesn't require anyone's service. But if we offer service to Him, then we become purified, and... [break] ...complete purification. We can talk with God, we can see God, we can take His instruction, as Arjuna is talking with God, personally taking His instruction and acting according to His instruction.



Hayagrīva: Kierkegaard felt that God's will... He says, "There is a God. His will is made known to me in holy scripture and in my conscience."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: God intervenes in the world through the individual acting according to scripture.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. These is a word, sādhu śāstra guru vākya cittete koriyā aikya. We can approach God by understanding a saintly person, by studying the Vedic scriptures, and explained directly by the bona fide spiritual master. So sādhu means saintly person, and śāstra means scriptures, and guru means spiritual master*-and that they should be corroborated. A sādhu is he who talks in terms of scripture. Similarly, guru is he who talks in terms of scripture. Guru cannot manufacture words which is not in the scriptures. And that is not scripture which does not tally with the words of guru and sādhu. So these three items should be corroborated, and then we can understand who is guru, who is sādhu, and who is, what is scripture. Then we take instruction from them, and we can perfectly make progress towards understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "The only thing which enters Him, God, who is all*-majestic, is obedience."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "It is so easy to see that one to whom everything is equally important and equally insignificant can only be interested in one thing: obedience."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted, and Kṛṣṇa, or God, demands that. Full obedience. Sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the qualification. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. So original obedience is to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, similarly obedience to the spiritual master is representative of God. So anyone who carries out the order of God, he can become bona fide guru, because he is not manufacturing anything. He is simply presenting what God is speaking, or the śāstra is speaking. God, when He comes as incarnation, He does not speak anything which is not in the scripture. That, just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa gives reference to the Brahma-sūtra, Vedānta-sūtra. He is God. Whatever He is speaking, that is final, that's, that's a fact. Still, He is giving honor to the Vedānta-sūtra. Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ [Bg. 13.5]. He is giving reference to the Brahma-sūtra because spiritual knowledge is asserted there with logic and philosophy. So we cannot accept anyone as incarnation of God if He speaks nonsense, not corroborating with the standard scripture.



Hayagrīva: Concerning worship, he writes, "The only adequate way to express the sense of God's majesty is to worship Him, to renounce everything as an act of worship offered to God, and so not because He needs to use you as an instrument but to renounce everything yourself as the most insignificant suprafluity, an article of luxury. That means to worship." That is, worship is renunciation.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Worship is the beginning, begins with renunciation, or the renouncing any motive. Ahaituky apratihatā. Our only business is to love God. That is first*-class religious system which teaches the followers to love God without any motive. Ahaituky apratihatā. Such kind of worship will not be checked by any material condition. In any condition of life one can love God. God will help. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. That is pure worship and pure love for God. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the last point we're making on Kierkegaard. It's concerning God's personality.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "God is certainly personal, but whether He wishes to be so in relation to the individual depends on whether it pleases God."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "It is the grace of God that He wishes to be personal in relation to you. If you throw away His grace, He punishes you by behaving objectively, or impersonally, towards you."



*Prabhupāda: (laughing) That's right. That is very good. Impersonal conception of God is a troublesome business. That is stated in the Bhagavad*-gītā: kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyakta āsakta cetasām. Find out this verse.



Hari-śauri:



kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām

*avyaktāsakta*-cetasām

avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ

dehavadbhir avāpyate

[Bg. 12.5]



"For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied."



Prabhupāda: Purport.



*Hari-śauri: The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord are called jñāna-yogīs, and persons who are in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in devotional service to the Lord, are called bhakti-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore, the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind, which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa and nirguṇa*-of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood, or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord.



*A crude example may be given here. We may find some mailboxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally go to their destination without difficulty. But any old box, or an imitation, which we may find somewhere, which is not authorized by the post office, will not do the work. Similarly, God has an authorized representation in the Deity form, which is called arca*-vigraha. This arca-vigraha is an incarnation of the Supreme Lord. God will accept service through that form. The Lord is omnipotent and all-powerful; *therefore, by His incarnation as arca*-vigraha, He can accept the services of the devotee, just to make it convenient for the man in conditioned life.



*So, for a devotee, there is no difficulty in approaching the Supreme immediately and directly, but for those who are following the impersonal way to spiritual realization, the path is difficult. They have to understand the unmanifested representation of the Supreme through such Vedic literatures as the Upaniṣads, and they have to learn the language, understand the nonperceptual feelings, and they have to realize all these processes. This is not very easy for a common man. A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in devotional service, simply by the guidance of the bona fide spiritual master, simply by offering regulative obeisances unto the Deity, simply by hearing the glories of the Lord, and simply by eating the remnants of foodstuffs offered to the Lord, realizes the Supreme Personality of Godhead very easily. There is no doubt that the impersonalists are unnecessarily taking a troublesome path with the risk of not realizing the Absolute Truth at the ultimate end. But the personalist, without any risk, trouble, or difficulty, approaches the Supreme Personality directly. A similar passage appears in Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. It is stated there that if one has to ultimately surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead (This surrendering process is called bhakti.), but instead takes the trouble to understand what is Brahman and what is not Brahman and spends his whole life in that way, the result is simply troublesome. Therefore it is advised here that one should not take up this troublesome path of self-realization because there is uncertainty in the ultimate result.



*A living entity is eternally an individual soul, and if he wants to merge into the spiritual whole, he may accomplish the realization of the eternal and knowledgeable aspects of his original nature, but the blissful portion is not realized. By the grace of some devotee, such a transcendentalist, highly learned in the process of jñāna*-yoga, may come to the point of bhakti-yoga, or devotional service. At that time, long practice in impersonalism also becomes a source of trouble, because he cannot give up the idea. Therefore an embodied soul is always in difficulty with the unmanifest, both at the time of practice and at the time of realization. Every living soul is partially independent, and one should know for certain that this unmanifested realization is against the nature of his spiritual blissful self. One should not take up this process. For every individual living entity the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which entails full engagement in devotional service, is the best way. If one wants to ignore this devotional service, there is the danger of turning to atheism. Thus this process of centering attention on the unmanifested, the inconceivable, which is beyond the approach of the senses, as already expressed in this verse, should never be encouraged at any time, especially in this age. It is not advised by Lord Kṛṣṇa.



Hayagrīva: He says, "If you throw away His grace, He punishes you by behaving objectively toward you, and in that sense one may say that the world has not got a personal God in spite of all the proofs. But while dons and parsons," that is priests, "drivel on," talk on, "about the millions of truths about God's personality, the truth is that there are no longer the men living who could bear the pressure and weight of having a personal God." Because he feels that a personal God would make demands on man, and so therefore men reject the idea of a personal God.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal God means He is demanding, as Kṛṣṇa is demanding, man*-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Always think of Me, or offer Me worship, offer Me obeisances, and become My devotee. And give up all other engagement. Simply be engaged in My service." This is the demand of God, and if we carry out His demand, then we are perfect. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply carry out the orders of God then you become qualified, fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. This is clearly stated. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body, but a devotee, a pure devotee, after giving up this body, he doesn't accept another material body, but in his original, spiritual body he goes back to home, back to Godhead.



Hayagrīva: That's the end of Kierkegaard. (end)





SARTRE.HAY



*Jean*-Paul Sartre



*Hayagrīva: And this is a very short section on Jean*-Paul Sartre. The...



Prabhupāda: Who is he?



Hayagrīva: The... He is a contemporary French philosopher.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Hayagrīva: Probably the most famous of the French philosophers. Perhaps the most well known philosopher in this century. He calls himself an existentialist. He calls himself an atheistic existentialist in that he believes existence precedes essence. That the essence of man... According to creation by design, God has the essence of man in His mind, and He creates man just as a paper cutter creates some kind of a figure. Sartre doesn't believe this. He says, "Atheistic existentialism, which I represent, is more coherent. It states that if God does not exist, there is at least one being in whom existence precedes essence, a being who exists before he can be defined by any concept, and that this being is man, or human reality." So that for Sartre a human reality is all in all.



Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the human reality comes? There are no realities also, so why he is stressing on human realities?



*Hayagrīva: There again, he would emphasize accident-he uses the word*-that man is thrown into the world, or cast into the world.



Prabhupāda: Thrown by whom? "Thrown into the world," as soon you say like that, then the next question will be, "Thrown by whom?"



Devotee: They don't like that question.



Prabhupāda: Hm?



Hayagrīva: He...



Devotee: They do not like that question.



Hayagrīva: Well, he says, "Existentialism isn't so atheistic that it wears itself out showing God doesn't exist. Rather, it declares that even if God did exist, that would change nothing. There you've got our point of view."



Prabhupāda: No, if you exist as others exist, then what is the fault there? God also exists. He exists. Others also existing. So if there is God, what is the fault if He exists? Why he is denying the existence of God? Let them all exist.



Hayagrīva: First of all, he feels that God does not exist.



Prabhupāda: Why? If you exist, if others exist, why God will not exist?



Hayagrīva: That is his position as an atheist.



Prabhupāda: No, atheist, that is there should be reasonable proposal. If you speak something nonsense, that "I exist," why he, does he bring the word God, if God does not exist? God is there, but He denies the existence. That is atheism. Otherwise, why bringing the word God? If God does not exist, why he is bringing the word God?



Hayagrīva: He wants, he's trying to...



Prabhupāda: That means God is there. He wants his existence; he does not want God to exist. That is his proposal.



Hayagrīva: Yes. Emphasis is on man.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nonsense. If you believe in your existence, you should believe in others' existence also. Actually there is. Human being is not only existing, but there are so many, 8,400,000 different forms of living being. They are existing. So God is also one of them. According to Vedic understanding of God, that God is also one of the living being, but He is the chief, supreme living being. That is the difference. So, in the ordinary understanding a man is better than the animal, and another intelligent man is better than the nonintelligent man. So similarly, you go on with comparative study, one after another, when you come to the final living being, He is the Supreme. As it is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: [Bg. 7.7] there is no more superior living being, and that is God. That we have got practical experience. You may be more intelligent than me, he may be more intelligent than you, go on, go on searching. So when you find somebody that He is the final intelligent, that is God. So what is the difficulty to understand? Why God shall not exist? If one person better intelligent than me he can exist, so why a person who exceeds all others in intelligence, He cannot exist? So there is no meaning of atheism. That is ignorance.



Hayagrīva: By..., by setting aside or denying the existence of God, he is able to write this: "Thus there is no human..."



Prabhupāda: That, that kind of understanding, denying the existence, that is foolishness. How he can? We have given the definition, that practical field you will find one man is more intelligent than the other man, or one animal is better intelligent than other animal. That is positive, comparative, superiority, divisions. So naturally we can think of, at least, that we approach this way to a certain personality, He is the final intelligent. No more exceeds in the intelligence than Him, and no more equal intelligence. That is God. There is possibility of such person's existence. How he can deny it?



Hayagrīva: But if God exists, then...



Prabhupāda: God exists, must exist!



Hayagrīva: ...then He must be the center.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: Then He must be the center.



Prabhupāda: No, no. He has to accept that God exists. He cannot deny it, because practically we see. You may be intelligent, more intelligent than me, and he may be more intelligent you. So go on, go on, and find out, if you have got power, that we come to a person there is no more more intelligent than Him, as God defines: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. And Kṛṣṇa, "Above Me there is no more intelligent person." There is not. So you cannot deny this existence, a superpowerful, superintelligent person, because we practically see. Not that everyone is on the equal level. That is not the case. He is a philosopher, another philosopher more intelligent than him, another philosopher more intelligent. So you go on searching. Anyway, either in richness or in intelligence or in power, strength, beauty, there is comparative superlative degrees. So God means the superlative degree in everything. How he can deny this existence? That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: According to him he says, "The first principle of existentialism is that man is nothing else but what he makes of himself, since there is no God to conceive of human nature."



Prabhupāda: When, if he can see that man exists in his own idea, so why not a superman who exists in his own idea, or his own capacity, completely independent of anyone? Why, how he can deny that? That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: He feels that... He puts a great deal of emphasis on man's responsibility, of his existence on himself.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: That since he's not responsible to God, he's responsible for himself.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Or to himself.



Prabhupāda: What does he mean, "responsible"? Responsible, if somebody gives you duties, and if you feel responsible to discharge that duty, then you are responsible. But there is no duty, nobody is to see above you, then where is your responsibility?



Hayagrīva: Well, he feels that all values... If there is no God, all values disappear. There are no values, there's no criteria.



Prabhupāda: So his value also disappear.



Hayagrīva: So from this he concludes that without God, everything is possible. He says, "Indeed, everything is permissible if God does not exist. If God did not exist, everything would be possible. That is the very starting point of existentialism."



Prabhupāda: But he does not know what, what is the meaning of God. We have several times repeated this. God is the Supreme, Supreme Being. So we have defined in so many ways. Another thing that God is the Supreme, Supreme means He is supreme father. The Supreme everything means He is supreme father also. The conception of father is there. So as we are standing, we are talking with that gentleman priest, that mother nature, nature is giving, producing so many living entities. So she is supposed to be the mother. And as soon as we accept mother, there must be father. Mother cannot, alone cannot give birth to any offspring, so there must be the conception of father. And that is, practically we are seeing that mother nature... We say "mother nature" because she gives birth to so many forms of life, and if we accept mother, then you must to accept father, and that God is supreme father. How he can deny it? Father's duty is to maintain the children. So all living beings are being maintained, so there must be father. How he can deny that?



Hayagrīva: How, how, well, he does. He says, his very words, he says, "Since we have discarded God the father, there has to be someone to invent values. Before you become alive, life is nothing. It's up to you to give it a meaning, and value is nothing else but the meaning that you choose."



Prabhupāda: I will have to give meaning of my life? So what is that idea?



Hayagrīva: You must give meaning to your own life. Since, since there is no God to give life meaning, man must invent his own meaning.



Prabhupāda: Everyone will invent his meaning.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Then where, where there will be symmetry?



Hayagrīva: Si..., similitude.



Prabhupāda: No, symmetry.



Devotee: Symmetry.



Prabhupāda: Yes. How the people will live peacefully in the society? I will give my own idea, you will give your own idea, he will give his own idea, then where there is collaboration? No, there is no possibility. Then it is chaotic condition. Then why do you want government? You live without government. You don't require government.



Hayagrīva: Lately he's turned into a Marxist.



Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, there is government. In the Marxist, Communist country, there is government, so how you can avoid the government and leadership? That is not possible. Then the society is in chaotic condition.



Hayagrīva: He believes that each man is responsible for other men, but that he believes..., he also believes that each man has the freedom to work out his own destiny, so to speak.



Prabhupāda: Say, suppose if I want to do with you some, something good, and you are free. So if you don't accept me, then I don't accept that, that is, means chaotic. How you are responsible for me? If I don't obey, so how you can become responsible for me? So he says that a man should be responsible for other men. But if he does not obey you, where is the responsibility? So crazy fellow that.



Hayagrīva: It appears to be contradictory.



Prabhupāda: Everything is contradictory. That must be contradictory. Unless there is standard idea, standard thing, there must be contradiction.



Hayagrīva: This is the last point. He says, "To be man..."



Prabhupāda: Therefore we say first of all God.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: There is Supreme Person, and we should be all obedient servant to Him. Then the society will be in order. That, that is responsibility. God gives us some duty, and if we carry that, that is our responsibility, and that makes the whole society perfect. That should... In the beginning if we reject God, so then it is chaotic. So religion means to avoid this chaotic condition, and in order, fulfilling the responsibility given by God, we make progress, and finally we live with God personally. That is our eternal right.



Hayagrīva: His final point is that..., is, "To be man means to reach toward being God, or, if you prefer, man fundamentally is the desire to be God."



Prabhupāda: So he, at last he accept there is God. (laughter) Otherwise what is the meaning of going to God? Yes, he is trying to deny God when there is God. Unless there is God, where is the question of accepting or denying? He is denying in the other way; that means there is God.



Devotee: As soon as he mentions God he's proved there is God.



Prabhupāda: No, as soon as he denies God, there is God.



Devotee: Or denies, because he has admitted God...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Devotee: ...one way or another.



Hayagrīva: He says that he prefers to set the question aside, but at the same time...



*Prabhupāda: That is the main question. That is the main question, that God has created everything. He has created you, He has created your mind, intelligence, your body, your existential circumstances*-everything He has created. So how you can deny God? In the beginning, that Bible says, "In the beginning there was God." Is it not?



Devotee: Yes.



Prabhupāda: And the Vedānta also it is, aham evāsam evāgre. That God says that "I existed in the beginning." Here the creation is temporary, existence is temporary, and annihilation is also temporary. This is material nature. And we can understand it very easily, that this body, your body, my body is created at a certain date, it will continue to a certain date, and it will be finished. This is material understanding. Anything you will take, it has a beginning, it has a duration of period to exist, then finished. So if you take broader way, the whole cosmic manifestation, it has a beginning and it has an end and it has a duration of period to exist. But before this creation, who was there? That is God. Otherwise how the creation is possible if God is not there before the creation?



Hayagrīva: Well, new philosophy means to resolve this question. You can't possibly resolve it by setting it aside, if it's the major question. It's been the major question of all philosophers we studied. So how can you say let us just set it aside?



*Prabhupāda: No. What the philosophers, the... Not all philosophers they denied the existence, but from our practical study we can see that take personal existence, that before I got this body, there was my father and mother. So how can I deny this fact? This whole cosmic manifestation is exactly like the manifestation of my body. Everything you take, there is practical experience. So far you take this spectacle, it is created by some spectacle..., spectacle manufacturer, and it will exist for some time, then it will annihilate. Similarly, the whole creation, annihilation. There is another crude example, just like earthen pot is made from the clay, earth. It is, it gets a shape, and it continues to exist for a certain time, and then it is broken. So when it is broken, again it is clay. So in the beginning the clay was there, in the middle there is a form, and at the end again clay. So clay is the original. Similarly, God is everything original. That is explained by God in the Bhagavad*-gītā: ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. And the Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. This is clear understanding where your existence comes from. You cannot say all of a sudden you dropped from the sky. You have your father and mother, and from them you have appeared. How you can say that "There was nobody else before my creation, and there will be nobody else after my annihilation"? That is foolishness. How you can do it? So you have to accept that before your manifestation there was your father and mother. So this is right philosophy. The mother is the material nature and father is God. So father gives the seed, and mother begets so many children. So it is a big family. Father is God and material nature is the mother, and then we, as children, we are taken care of by the father and mother, so our duty is to remain peacefully at the cost of the father and mother and become obedient to the father and mother. This is natural. Beyond this, all speculation. That will not give us real peace and prosperity. We must, have to accept. God is there, the nature is there, and we are also there, a big family. Let us live peacefully according to the order of the father. That is natural.



Rāmeśvara: He is describing responsibility to the family without considering the father.



Prabhupāda: Family... He is also one of the member of the family, who created the family. How he, can you disobey the father?



Hayagrīva: Well, he says, "First of all man exists, turns up, appears on the scene."



Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the man exists? That is his foolishness.



Hayagrīva: He just says he appears on the scene.



Rāmeśvara: He is not concerned.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Rāmeśvara: He is not concerned.



Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He does not know that he appears on account of father and mother. How he can deny this? That is his foolishness. How can this man say, "I appeared all of a sudden. I dropped from the sky." It is a crazy fellow. How we can give time to hear it? That's not possible. You appeared on account of your father and mother. How can you deny it? That is not possible. Is it possible to deny it?



Hayagrīva: Not intelligently.



*Prabhupāda: That means a rascal. A rascal can say that "I appeared without father and mother." That's not possible. So we say that everyone appears, not only human being. All animals, all plants, trees, everywhere-there are 8,400,000 species of life*-they have appeared from these material elements. Either from the water... The fishes is appearing in the water, and the plants and trees, they are appearing on the land, and then insects, birds and everything. Everything is appearing. So material nature is the mother. That is accepted. So as soon as you accept mother there must be father. Where you get this conception that we are appearing without father and mother? How it, how it is possible?



Rāmeśvara: He just wants to put the question aside.



Prabhupāda: Why? This is the primary question, wherefrom you appeared.



Rāmeśvara: Christians also, and the Jew, the Western religions, they say there is a God, but He has put us here in this world. So He is in His heaven, and we are here on earth, and our business now is to become happy. They also put the question aside. (end)





FREUD.HAY



Sigmund Freud



*Hayagrīva: ...and on Sigmund Freud, you discussed with Śyāmasundara Prabhu the sexual aspects, but not the theological aspects. Freud wrote two basic books on religion, Future of an Illusion, and there was a great deal in Leonardo da Vinci, A Study in Psycho*-sexuality. He writes, "Psychoanalysis, which has taught us the intimate connection between the father complex and belief in God, has shown us that the personal God is psychologically nothing but an exalted father. Youthful persons lose their religious belief as soon as the authority of the father breaks down." So he sees God as basically a father complex arising out of the need of help of the little child.



Prabhupāda: That little child, how he can give up the idea of father? And how Mr. Freud can give up the idea? Was he not born by a father?



Hayagrīva: He feels that...



Prabhupāda: He dropped from the sky? Huh? Did, did he?



Hayagrīva: He feels that this is childish.



Prabhupāda: That childish, what is that childish? He had no father?



Hayagrīva: He had a father, but he believed in ultimate emancipation.



Prabhupāda: No, no, ultimate we shall go later on. First of all, he has to think whether he had his father or not. Or his father's father was not there, and go on searching out. So without father, how can one exist or one can come into being? So that if he cannot understand this simple philosophy, what kind of philosopher he is? He had his father. His father had his father. So this is fact. Even though he might not have seen his dead grandfather, but he was there. That is a fact. So if you go on searching, father's father's father, where you will come there is no father? Which..., which is that point when you can say, "Now here there is no father"? And if you actually come to that point that "Here is a person of whom there is no father," that is God.



Hayagrīva: He says, "After all, is not the destiny of childishness to be overcome? Man cannot remain a child forever."



Prabhupāda: No. What is his definition of childish? Whether he is childish, or he is condemning others?



Hayagrīva: One who needs...



*Prabhupāda: Unless you can deny that you have born, you are born without father, then you are a child. You do not have conception how you are in existence without father. What is this argument? That everything must be argued, a sane man. So this is simple logic I am putting forward. Who can refute it, that you have father, your father had father, his father had father, father's father's, all? This is a disciplic succession of fathers. How can you deny the father? Therefore the ultimate father, the supreme father, He is also father but He is supreme father. That is the difference. So father conception of God is very practical, and it is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. So how he can defy it if he is a sane man? Who can defy it? Is there any person to defy it?



*Hayagrīva: Well, he says, "Man's helplessness remains, and with it his father*-longing and the gods."



Prabhupāda: Hopelessness or no hopelessness...



Hayagrīva: Helplessness.



Prabhupāda: Ah. But suppose he is philosophizing. So how he can avoid the conception of father? That is insanity. This is very simple thing. Father's father's, his father, his father... When you go to the supreme father, that is God.



Hayagrīva: Well, he felt that the idea of God arose out of man's helplessness, and the gods...



*Prabhupāda: That hopelessness is already there, that's a fact. That is the same logic, that we are finding difficulties in this materialistic way of life. Threefold miseries*-miserable condition of this body, this mind, miseries offered by other living entities, and the natural disturbances. So how can you say there is very smooth life? That is not possible. And above these, there is old age, birth, death. So hopelessness is already there. But if one is very rascal, he is hoping against hope and planning that "We shall overcome all these difficulties by this plan, that plan, that plan." That, that is not possible. The nature is so strong, whatever plan you imagine, that will smash into pieces by simply kicking over your face. So you are hopeless but you are so shameless, inspite of becoming hopeless in every step, you are hoping against hope to make adjustment with these material things. You are so rascal and foolish. Hopelessness is always there in every step, and still, out of insanity, you are trying to adjust with another hopeless plan.



Hayagrīva: He felt that the father God is an infantile wish. He says, "The whole thing is so patently infantile, so incongruous with reality, that one whose attitudes..."



Prabhupāda: So what is his reality? Infantile conception of God, but what he is, except the child? Huh? He is also planning something. That is also childish. So how he becomes more than a child? He cannot give us any definite program by which everyone will be hopeful.



Hayagrīva: Well, he felt psychoanalysis was the answer.



Prabhupāda: That is jugglery of word. Psychoanalysis, nobody will, can understand, a common man. Psychoanalysis, if there is meaning, that there is supreme controller, that is psychoanalysis. We see everywhere controller, so it is natural. This is psychoanalysis, that there is a supreme controller. That is natural. Why defying this fact?



Hayagrīva: He says, "If one attempts to assign religion its place in man's evolution, it seems not so much to be a lasting acquisition as a parallel to the neuroses which the civilized individual must pass through on his way from childhood to maturity."



Prabhupāda: Evidently he is frustrated, without any knowledge of religion. He had no idea. He has seen that so many sentimental religious system, and he has concluded like that. But first of all let him understand what is religion. Religion cannot come into existence without understanding the idea of God. Religion without God cannot be religion. According to Vedic system, religion means the order given by God. But if one has no conception of God, that there is no question of religion. So Godless religion is, certainly, it is sentiment. That is not religion. So he has studied something which is not religion; therefore he has got so many doubts about religion. Real religion is that there is God, that is a fact, and whatever orders the God gives, that is religion. So he does not know what is God. How he will know what order He is giving? So for him everything is not religion.



Hayagrīva: It's often been said of Freud that he tried to repress within himself religious feelings that were definitely there. He says, "I cannot..." In a letter he wrote, "I cannot rid myself of certain sceptic materialistic prejudices, and I would carry them over into the research of the occult." He considered religion the occult.



Prabhupāda: Occult, what is that?



Hayagrīva: Occult, something obscure. The...



Prabhupāda: It is not obscure. It is, everything is obscure to the foolish person. So he is a foolish person. He does not know what is God. How he will know what is religion? Our definition of religion is "the order given by God." But if I do not know what is God, then how can I take His order? That is the defect.



Hayagrīva: In the same letter he writes, "I am entirely incapable of considering the survival of the personality after death, even as a mere scientific possibility. I think therefore, it is better if I continue confining myself to psychoanalysis."



Prabhupāda: What is that psy...? He is deficient in psychoanalysis also, because he is practically seeing in his daily life that a child is growing to become a boy, a boy is growing to a young man, but the body is changing and the soul is there. So if he has no sense to understand this, what kind of psychoanalysis he is? The body of the child is finished, then he accepts another body, boy. So how you can deny it? You say it has grown. I say that it is finished. Then what is the difference? Actually the child's body is not there. So you can show..., speak in a different language, but the, when the child's body is finished, there is the boy's body. When the boy's body is finished, the young man's body. So body is changing, but still my child, my son, John, I still call him John, although he has changed his body, because I know my son, the soul John, whom I call John, he is there. So the soul is there; the body is changing, we are experiencing every day. So what kind of psychoanalyst he is, that he cannot understand this simple truth? And still he says, "I cannot believe in the eternity of the soul." That how poor thoughts he is maintaining, and he is proclaiming himself a philosopher. What kind of philosopher he is?



Hayagrīva: He wrote a book called Beyond the Pleasure Principle, and in it he wrote, "The goal of all life is death." For him death is the cessation...



Prabhupāda: But why...



Hayagrīva: ...of suffering.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. That means you, why you are afraid of death? Why go to the medical man? Huh? When you are diseased you are afraid of dying. Why go to the medical man? If death is ultimate happiness, then why you are trying to avoid death? What is the psychoanalysis? [break]



Hayagrīva: Now this theory... Freud's principal disciple was the famous psychologist Carl Jung. They had an argument, and Freud once fainted, and when he came to, his words were, Freud's words were, "How sweet it must be to die." And in Beyond the Pleasure Principle, he writes, "The most universal endeavor of all living substance, namely, to return to the quiescence of the inorganic world. We have all experienced how the greatest pleasure attainable by us, that of the sexual act, is associated with the momentary extinction of a highly intensified excitation. Thus the pleasure principle, the sex act itself, is preliminary to the most highly desired nirvāṇa, the extinction of desires, and ultimately the extinction of the life functions themselves. Thus the pleasure principle seems actually to serve the death instincts."



Prabhupāda: So where is the pleasure when he is dead? What is that pleasure?



Hayagrīva: Well there is pleasure, and then when pleasure is cultivated, culminated...



Prabhupāda: That pleasure is in the stone. So why you are...



Hayagrīva: That's inorganic. He spoke of the return, the quiescence of the inorganic world.



Prabhupāda: Yes. So...



Hayagrīva: To become like...



Prabhupāda: Why you are philosophizing? You just sui..., make suicide and become a stonelike death. That why you are philosophizing, taking so much pain? Better you suicide, commit suicide, and immediately become silent, then that's happiness. (laughter) Why you are, rascal, bothering yourself and headaching others? The best thing is that you commit suicide and become dead, and all happiness is there. As some rascal do that, that by committing suicide he will solve all problem. So this is easy process, commit suicide, and why you are writing so many books? If ultimate happiness is to become dead, do that immediately.



Hayagrīva: But isn't... Materialistic pleasure, he says, serves the death instinct, but doesn't materialistic pleasure just bring out more craving for pleasure?



Prabhupāda: He is making death as the ultimate pleasure. Is it not?



Hayagrīva: Death as the ultimate goal of pleasure.



Prabhupāda: That's all, then commit it immediately. Why you are writing so many book? Commit suicide, that everyone can do that.



Hayagrīva: After, after having sex, most people simply go to sleep, and he felt that this was the, sort of the ultimate extinction.



*Prabhupāda: That means Freud is a most imperfect person. He is taking sex as very important thing, which the dog enjoys. As a dog's life and a hog's life, the hog has got very good facility. The monkey has got very good facility for sex life, and he is thinking this is ultimate goal, and then sleep. So that is going on. So if sex life is so big thing, the hogs, they have got good facility. The pigeons, they have got very good facility. I think every hour they have four times sex life, these pigeons. So if that is, then you become a pigeon. You pray to God that "Make me a pigeon, make me a hog." Why you are becoming philosopher? Now our philosophy is different*-not to become a pig. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. The life simply for sense gratification, and for that purpose working so hard, but that is the business of the pig. That is not the business of the human being. Human being is tapasya. Tapasya means stop sex life. That is tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. So our philosophy is different from his philosophy. And actually we are suffering. The pig has got good facilities for sex. Does it mean that is ideal life, eating stool and having sex without discrimination? They have no discrimination, whether mother or sister or daughter. That is hog life. So if sex life is final pleasure, then hog is in the greatest pleasure. He has no social obligation. He has no discrimination. But our philosophy says "Don't become a hog, become a sane man." There, there, there is a difference between his philosophy and our philosophy.



Hayagrīva: He says, "Everything in our life is an accident, from our very origin..."



Prabhupāda: Just see how foolishness he is.



Hayagrīva: "...through the meeting of the spermatozoa and ovum, an accident, which nevertheless participates in the lawfulness and fatalities of nature, lacking only the connection to our wishes and illusions."



Prabhupāda: You are so foolish that you cannot avoid even accident. You are subjected to so many accidents. So what you will do by your philosophy? If accident is so prominent, (laughter) so how you will make adjustment with your philosophy? Stop talking philosophy, accept accidents and suffer, that's all.



Hayagrīva: Concerning sex, Freud explored the realm of infantile sexuality and found a definite sexual nature in the earlier stages of childhood. He concluded that these sexual activities in childhood were normal phenomena, and finally concluded with his famous dictum, "In a normal sex life, no neurosis is possible."



*Prabhupāda: That is also his foolishness, because a child can be trained up to become a brahmacārī so that he will have no inclination for sex. It depends on the child's training. The unscrupulous father and mother, they enjoy sex life before the child, and they imitate. I have seen it. I have seen it in Agra. There are two small children. In life, what do they know? The female child laid down, and the man child, just like they have seen father and mother*-sex. He does not know anything, but he is imitating. So imitating, imitating, the sex life is there, it becomes prominent. Similarly, you train the children not to have any sense of sex life, he will become brahmacārī. So he has not studied. He has seen some abominable family's children. So they learn these things. Whatever you teach, they imitate. So if you keep the children aloof from this sex-life society, he will remain a brahmacārī. There is many instances. That is the Vedic civilization. The children are immediately, as soon as four, five years old, he is sent to the gurukula, and under the discipline he forgets sex life, practically. But still if he has little, that is natural when he is young man, so a guru sees that still tendency for sex life, he is allowed, "Go on, marry and become a gṛhastha." Otherwise, if he is perfectly controlled over sex life, he becomes a sannyāsī, vānaprastha, the whole life. Just like my Guru Mahārāja, he was never married. So he could..., that can be trained. Why he is saying the child is? Child can be trained. Even without sex he can live throughout whole life without any disturbance. That can be trained up. It is a question of education.



Hayagrīva: He felt that sexual repression would be harmful, but sexual sublimation can often be beneficial. Sublimation, he says...



Prabhupāda: What is that sublimation? More sex? (indistinct) sex?



Hayagrīva: Sublimation is, well let me read, "The excessive excitations from individual sexual sources are discharged and utilized in other spheres, so that no small enhancement of mental capacity results from a predisposition which is dangerous as such." In other words, he didn't believe that..., in total sexual freedom as it's conceived today, but that a man would be better, instead of trying to totally deny the sex drive, to try to redirect it, oh, perhaps in artistic activity or in, in study, or in some other activity. Not to deny it.



Prabhupāda: That means, in one word, to divert his attention.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: That is brahmacārī. That is recommended in the Vedic culture, that from the very beginning of his life, divert his attention for spiritual activities, he, he will forget about sex life. That is the experience. Not only a trained*-up child, even a grown-up person, if he takes Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, he also forgets sex life. So that is possible by training, one can forget sex life. That, that is experience of Yamunacārya. He expressing, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. He says that "Since my, my mind and attention has been diverted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities, as soon as I thing of sex life, I spite on it." That is possible. It is simply question of training. And if one indulges in sex life without any restriction, the physical problem is there. He will be impotent. He will not be able to, even though he has got sex organs, he will not be able to use it. That is nature's way of punishing. There are so many impotent person. So it is a question of training. So the Vedic training is to train the small child, from the very beginning of his life, how to avoid sex life. That cannot be artificially done, but there is a process of training. By accepting that training one can remain without sex life throughout the whole life. That is possible.



Hayagrīva: Well he felt it couldn't be stamped out. If it, if you try to stamp out the sex drive, it will manifest itself in neuroses, in undesirable...



*Prabhupāda: No, that is..., he is not... That is the defect. He does not know perfectly anything, and he is philosophizing. That is the defect. Not only in him*-I find these all mental speculators, that is the defect. Everything is possible, but our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is different from his imagination. Our philosophy is that so long one has the sex inclination, he will have to accept a material body. And as soon as he accepts a material body, he becomes implicated in so many miserable condition of material existence. But there is another life, which is not material, that is spiritual. If one is trained up to accept that spiritual life, there will be no more botheration of this material existence. That he does not know, neither he can understand. But there is such thing. That can be found in the Vedic civilization, not this meat-eating civilization. It is not possible.



Hayagrīva: Concerning religion, he said, "Of the reality value of most of them, of most religions, we cannot judge. Just as they cannot be proved, neither can they be refuted."



*Prabhupāda: First of all, he does not know what is religion. That is the defect in him. We say religion means the order given by God. Simple thing. But he has no conception of God. How he can get orders from God? Therefore how he can understand what is religion? He has got some ideas of fictitious religion, which is described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, kaitava, cheating. Cheating religion. That is not religion. Religion means, just like law. Law means the order given by the government. You cannot manufacture law at your home. That is not... Similarly, if somebody manufactures law at home and says that "I have manufactured one law. You take it," so who, what sane man will accept that law? "Sir, you keep your law in your pocket." Similarly, this so-called religious system, which is not given by God, that is just like outlaws. They are not religion. He has simply studied which is not religion. That is his defect. Real religion is the law given by God. So he has no conception of God, how he can understand what is religion? He has studied only pseudoreligion, cheating religion; therefore he is dissatisfied.



Hayagrīva: He said, "The riddles of the universe only reveal themselves slowly to our inquiry. To many questions, science can as yet give no answer, but scientific work is our only way to the knowledge of external reality. Science is no illusion, but it would be an illusion to suppose that we could get anywhere else what it could not give us." In other words, religion is an illusion, but the answer lies in..., in science, that science will eventually answer all of these questions that religion attempts to answer through...



Prabhupāda: No. The science or philosopher, when they are imperfect in their knowledge, they, whatever they give, that is unscientific and without any basic principle of philosophy. So the, first of all we have to learn what is the objective of knowledge, what we are searching, knowledge. The knowledge that... Vedānta. Vedānta, Veda means knowledge and anta means ultimate. Unless you come to the ultimate point of knowledge, your knowledge is imperfect, insufficient. So the ultimate knowledge is God. So if these people, they cannot define any God, they cannot believe in God, that means they have not reached to the ultimate point of knowledge. God is a fact, but we do not have any clear idea what is that God. That means our knowledge has not reached up to the point of clear understanding of God. So unless one is able to reach that point, everything, what he calls knowledge, is imperfect. God is there, that's a fact, and knowledge means to go to that point. If one has not reached to that point, his knowledge is imperfect. So how he can give us something conclusively if he has imperfect knowledge? Let him be philosopher or scientist; if he has got imperfect knowledge, what is the value of his science, scientific knowledge and that? His knowledge is imperfect. So our, our policy is we don't accept knowledge from an imperfect person. We have received knowledge from the perfect person. Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead, perfect, and anyone who follows Kṛṣṇa's knowledge, he is also perfect. So our policy is to accept knowledge from the perfect person, not from the speculators. Speculators are not in perfect knowledge; therefore whatever they say, they are all imperfect. Maybe to some extents it is perfect, but it is not perfect knowledge.



*Hayagrīva: He writes, "As it is a delicate task to decide what God has Himself ordained and what derives rather from the authority of an all*-powerful parliament or a supreme judicial decision, it would be an indubitable advantage to leave God out of the question altogether and to admit honestly the purely human origin of all cultural laws and instructions." In other words, man is the law-giver...



*Prabhupāda: That, that means he has no clear conception of God, because God has to take power from some parliament. God does not take power from anyone. He is God. That is described in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam, that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataḥ ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1], that the Supreme, God, or Supreme Truth, Brahman, He knows everything. He knows everything in details. And wherefrom? Abhijñaḥ. He is, abhijñaḥ means completely in awareness. Then the question may be raised that "How He got this complete knowledge? From whom He received?" The answer is immediate, svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. That is God. If one has to take knowledge from Mr. Freud, then he is not God. Anyone, if you come to that person that He is independent, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport], naturally He is all-perfect. He hasn't got to become perfect by some process or from some authority. That is God. He is all-perfect automatically. That is God. So anyone who is trying to be perfect, he is not God. One who is... That, that, that is in the history, we find in the history of life of Kṛṣṇa. When He was three-months-old child He, He could kill big giant like Pūtanā. That is automatic. Either He is child or He is a young man or He is old man, the godly power is there. The nowadays these so-called yogis, they are becoming God by meditation, but the three-months-old child in the lap of His mother, how He became God? The God is God always. He hasn't got to learn it from anyone. That is His svarāṭ, independent. So these people have no conception of God; *therefore they are simply speculating and misleading persons. God is not the subject matter of speculation. We, if we want to know God, then we must know it from God Himself or a person who knows Him. That is the direction in the Bhagavad*-gītā:



tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninas tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Tattva*-darśinaḥ, one who has learned about God as fact, as you see eye to eye and you believe it. Similarly, one who has seen God eye to eye, you have to let..., get lessons of God from him. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is talking with God. So if you have to understand God, then understand how Arjuna has taken his instruction from God and what he's understood. So Arjuna says, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam [Bg. 10.12]. So we have to take lesson from Arjuna not from Mr. Freud, who has no knowledge of God. That is the way.



Hayagrīva: Concerning early religious training, he writes, "So long as a man's early years are influenced by the religious thought inhibition, and by the lore one derived from it, as well as by the sexual one, we cannot really say what he," that is man, "is actually like." So he feels that early religious education actually warps a man's development, that you can't say what man can truly be like if you educate him to believe in a transcendental being.



Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If a child is given lesson that there is a supreme being controlling the whole cosmic situation, what is the wrong there? He should learn it.



Hayagrīva: But Freud felt that this inhibited man's natural development, that you can't know what man is naturally like as long as you inculcate him with these religious ideas.



Prabhupāda: Then why do you send your son to a school for education?



Hayagrīva: Well he felt that...



Prabhupāda: Naturally...



Hayagrīva: Some education, there has to be education.



Prabhupāda: That's all. This is also the most important education.



Hayagrīva: So therefore, they are following this line of thought now in the schools, because they've cut out religious education...



*Prabhupāda: That, that this is the important education in human life*-to learn about God. That is the only business, because in other lives, the animal life, cat's and dog's life, they cannot understand. But in the human form of life there is possibility; therefore that is the first education. The animals, they cannot think of God, but in the human society, why there are religions? Not in the animal society. To understand God, that is the civilized form of human civilization.



Hayagrīva: He agrees with Marx in his belief that religion is a form of narcotic. He says, "The believer...," that is in God...



*Prabhupāda: Well first of all, these men do not know what is religion. That is the defeat. That is their defect, either Marx or Freud of so many so*-called philosophers, they do not know what is religion. They have to learn what is religion. Without knowing what is religion, why they are talking of religion and God? They have no knowledge about.



Hayagrīva: He says, "The believer will not let his faith be taken from him, neither by argument nor by prohibitions, and even if it did succeed with some, it would be a cruel thing to do."



Prabhupāda: No. Anything, artificial teaching, that is cruelty. So that is being done by Mr. Freud also. Artificially he is stressing on sex and death and so on, so on, but that is not life. Real life is that to understand the simple truth. Just like..., who was protesting against father conception? That Mr. John, so and so?



Hari-śauri: Freud.



Hayagrīva: Freud.



Prabhupāda: Father. So how he can avoid this father conception? If you mislead people that there is no father conception, that is not education; that is misleading. Father is there, everyone knows this simple philosophy. And if he is misleading them, then that is not philosopher, that is cruelty. A man is naturally believing that there is father and there is father's father, and he is diverting his attention from this natural belief. So this is cruelty. He is committing cruelty to human understanding, simple understanding.



Hayagrīva: He says, "I disagree with you when you go on to argue that man cannot in general do without the consolation of the religious illusion, that without it he would not endure the troubles of life, the cruelty of reality."



*Prabhupāda: Man cannot do without education. Without education a man remains an animal. Therefore in the human society there is a school, college, an institution, teacher-not in the animal society. So the principle is, the man is meant for being learned or being educated. That you cannot deny, that man life should not be like cats and dogs, simply eating, sleeping, mating, and dying. That is not man's life. Man's life is to become advanced in knowledge and education. And as I have already described, the ultimate knowledge: to understand God. If he is so-called educated, without any understanding of God, then his education is imperfect. You can deny the existence of God, but the God conception is there in the human society. Some may accept it, some may not accept it*-that is another thing-but the conception of God, the whole civilized world, they have got some type of religion. Either you become Christian or Buddhist or Hindu or Muslim, religion means there is some cultivation of knowledge to understand God. And to understand God is the ultimate knowledge. That is called Vedānta. Veda means knowledge, and the ultimate knowledge: Vedānta. So ultimate knowledge, it, what is that? That is the beginning of Vedānta education. What is that ultimate knowledge? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta begins with this word, "Now this human form of life is to acquire the ultimate knowledge." Athāto brahma. Brahma means the ultimate. So, the absolute. Now it is the time to understand. So far understanding of sex, the dog also knows. You don't require to give him any education. So nobody is given education... Now of course they have adopted, but there is a Bengali proverb, "How to cry and how to enjoy sex, it doesn't require any education." When you are aggrieved, you cry automatically. When there is a sex impulse, you enjoy it automatically. It doesn't require any Mr. Freud. Without the help of any educator, everyone knows-cats, dogs, animals, human being-everyone knows how to enjoy sex life. It doesn't require any education.



So the Vedānta says that this kind of education is there in the animal kingdom also, sex philosophy. There is no question of philosophy, it is already there; *anyone can enjoy it. Now, at this time, atha ato brahma*-jijñāsā, now this human life is to inquire about the Absolute Truth, Brahman, because that is the ultimate knowledge. This ultimate knowledge can be acquired by the human being, not by the cats and dog. So if a philosopher, without any knowledge of God, doubtful knowledge of God, so he is imperfect, he is not even human being. He is cats and dogs. [break] God means supreme controller. So everything we see is controlled. The government is controller, but the supreme controller there must be. That's a fact. Now, if you want to know it clearly, then be educated. That is Vedānta. That is very reasonably said, that "What is that Brahman, God?" Immediately answer is, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. God means, the Absolute Truth means, Brahman means from whom everything has emanated. We see everything is emanating. Just like we see the trees are emanating from the earth, and by eating the fruits, flowers, grains, the animal, human being, they are also emanating. So ultimate cause is this earth. We are emanating. We can say that "I am emanating from my mother." So the mother does not eat, then how he, his, her body can continue and how she can give another body within the womb? So ultimately we can see that the earth or the water is the source of emanation of everything. Then we can inquire wherefrom the water comes and wherefrom the earth comes, wherefrom the air comes, wherefrom the fire comes. This is philosophy. Then ultimately when we come, come to the supreme point of emanation, janmādy asya yataḥ: [SB 1.1.1] "Here is the person, here is the source of everything." So that we must know. Simply in the middle struggling for understanding without any perfect knowledge, what is the value of this philosophy and knowledge? There is no value. You must come to the ultimate goal, the ultimate source of everything. "By accident," "perhaps," that, that is not knowledge. Definite knowledge. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll learn, Kṛṣṇa says,

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

*budhā bhāva*-samanvitāḥ

[Bg. 10.8]



Why one should become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa? When he understands perfectly that "Here is the ultimate source." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate.



*So when you have got this knowledge, that this knowledge, jñāna, that how this knowledge comes? By researching for many, many life. Then, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], in this way researching, researching, researching, after many, many births, when he actually becomes in full awareness that "Here is the source," then He says, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: [Bg. 7.19] "Oh, here is..., Vasudeva is everything." Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Then he begins his bhajana. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. That is life. Simply speculation, coming to know definite knowledge, "perhaps," "maybe," and this and that*-what is the value of this knowledge? That is childish. That is childish. He is, he is saying others, for giving him God, that is childish, but he is himself a child. He cannot give us any definite knowledge. "By chance," "by accident," "perhaps." What is the value of that knowledge?

Hayagrīva: Freud's..., this is Freud's final conclusion on this point: "True, without religion man will then find himself in a difficult situation. He will have to confess his utter helplessness and his insignificant part in the working of the universe. He will have to confess that he is no longer the center of creation, no longer the object of the tender care of a benevolent providence. He will be in the same position as the child who has left the home where he was so warm and comfortable. But, after all, is it not the destiny of childishness to be overcome? Man cannot remain a child forever. He must venture at last into the hostile world. This may be called education to reality. Need I tell you that it is the sole aim of my book to draw attention to the necessity for this advance?"



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: The advance to reality.



*Prabhupāda: That reality is good advice. But unfortunately, who is taking advantage of his advice? Because here we are presenting Bhagavad*-gītā, the real point of religion, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But these philosophers have misled the world so much that now it is very difficult to convince them that here is God speaking and here is religion. That service he has done. As they were innocent to accept the words of God, now they have become overintelligent. They think sex is God, and that is going on. So to counteract this mentality it will take some time, but anyone who takes, accept the Bhagavad-gītā, the words of God, and the ways and means of life as defined by God, if anyone takes, then he will be happy. That's a fact.



Hayagrīva: Christ said, "Unless he becomes a little child, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God."



Prabhupāda: Child.



Hayagrīva: Unless you become like a little child, you will not enter into the kingdom.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes.



Hayagrīva: And Freud says you must grow up.



Prabhupāda: He is a, he is a crazy fellow. That's all. And all these rascal philosophers, they are more or less crazy. One who does not know what is God, what is the value of his knowledge? But our criterion of knowledge is one who has known God. As long as you do not come to that point, your knowledge is useless. Simply misleading. And that is not knowledge. It is a fact that there is some supreme controller. Now if one give education how that supreme controller is working, how He is Supreme, that is real education. And you cannot understand how the Supreme is working, you simply deny the Supreme, that is not knowledge. Supreme is there because you are controlled. How can you avoid the control? How you can say there is no supreme controller? You make a plan and it is frustrated. There is supreme controller. You are making arrangement to live here very happily; *next day you die. So you are under controller. How can you deny it? So there is supreme controller. Now, knowledge means, "Who is that supreme controller? How He is controlling?" Not that deny it, "Grapes are sour." Jumping, jumping, jumping, jumping, when he could not reach the grapes, he said, "Oh, there is no need of them. It is sour." Their position is like that. They cannot understand... God is there, that's a fact*-supreme controller. But they cannot explain, neither they can understand. There is jackal struggle. Jackal jumping, jumping; when he cannot get the, reach the grapes, he says, " Why (indistinct)? It is sour." Their conclusion is like that. They cannot understand what is God, how He is acting, what is religion, and they are defying, "There is no need of religion, there is no need of God." Jackal struggling, that's all. Jackal struggling is no philosophy. (end)





JUNG.HAY



Carl Gustav Jung



Hayagrīva: This is Carl Jung, Carl Gustav Jung. One interesting point is that the inscription above the door of Jung's house read, in Latin, "Summoned or not summoned, God will be there."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: And in his book, his autobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, we find most of his thoughts about the, about theology and psychoanalysis. In that book he writes, "I find that all my thoughts circle around God like the planets around the sun and are as irresistibly attracted by Him. I would feel it to be the grossest sin if I were to oppose any resistance to this force." He sees all creatures as parts of God. He says, "Man cannot compare himself with any other creature. He is not a monkey, not a cow, not a tree. I am a man. But what is it to be that? Like every other being, I am a splinter of the infinite Deity."



Prabhupāda: Part and parcel. That is our theory. We are part and parcel of God. Like fire and the sparks.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "It was obedience which brought me grace. One must be utterly abandoned to God. Nothing matters but fulfilling His will. Otherwise all is folly and meaninglessness."



*Prabhupāda: Very good. Surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. That is real life. Śaraṇāgati, to surrender to God, to accept things which is favorable to God, to reject things which are unfavorable to God, always maintaining conviction that "God will give me all protection," and remain humble and meek, and think oneself as one of the members of God's family*-that is spiritual communism. As the Communist they think a member of a certain community, similarly a man's duty is to think always as member of God's family. The same idea I was speaking, that God is the supreme father, material nature is the mother, and anything, any living entity coming out of material nature, they are all sons of God. So practically we see that all living entities coming out, either from land or from water or from the air-everywhere there is living entity-so the material nature is the mother. There is no doubt about it. And we have got experience that mother cannot produce child without connection with the father. So this is absurd to think that without father a child can be born. That is foolishness. Father must be there, and that supreme father is God. This conception of a spiritual family is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness.



Hayagrīva: Concerning God's personality, he writes, "According to the Bible, God has a personality and is the ego of the universe, just as I myself am the ego of my psyche and physical being." But here...



*Prabhupāda: Yes, God... So that is our view, that consciousness, just like I am conscious, but I am conscious about my body. I am not conscious of your body. This is individual consciousness. You are conscious of your body, but you are not conscious of my body. That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, kṣetra-kṣetrajña, that individual soul is conscious of his own body, each and every individual soul, but there is another consciousness, that is superconsciousness. That is God. God is in everyone's heart, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]. I am also within the body, but He is not like that individual soul, limited within that body. He is residing in everyone's body, so that He is superconscious, Supersoul, Paramātmā.



Hayagrīva: Continuing on this, God's personality, these are his recollections of his spiritual encounters. He says, "But here I encountered a formidable obstacle. Personality, after all, surely signifies character. Now character is one thing and not another, that is to say, it involves certain specific attributes. But if God is everything, how could He still possess a distinguishable character? On the other hand, if He does have a character He can only be the ego of a subjective, limited world. Moreover, what kind of character or what kind of personality does He have? Everything depends on that, for unless one knows the answer, one cannot establish a relationship to Him."



*Prabhupāda: His character is transcendental character, not like the material character. Āprakṛta. It is said, just like bhakta*-vatsala, He is very kind to His devotee. This kindness is, is one of His characteristic. Similarly, He has got unlimited qualities, and according to that transcendental quality He is sometimes described, but all those qualities are permanent. Whatever qualities and character we have got, they are minute manifestation of God's character, because we have got character also. That is only a minute manifestation of God's character. He is the origin of all character. That is described in the śāstras. He has got also mind, He has got also feelings, He has got also sensation, He has got senses, sense perception, sense gratification. Everything is there. That is unlimitedly, and we, being part and parcel of God, we possess in minute quantities all the God's quality. Actually our characteristics, qualities are simply atomic manifestation of God's quality. The original qualities are in God.



Hayagrīva: Jung complained that at least the philosophies and theologies of the West...



Prabhupāda: And He, He is person also.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: He is person. That is the Vedic description. He is person exactly like us, but His personality is unlimited. The same example I was giving, that I am a person so far I am concerned with this particular body, but He is a person living in every body, Super Person. And in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is also said that that personality, either of God or of the individual soul, eternally existing. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says that in the past we are existing, at present we are existing, and in the future we shall continue to exist. So past, present, future. That means all the time, eternally, both of them are person. One person is unlimited, and the other person is limited. Finite and infinite. So God is person, but the unlimited qualities, unlimited characteristics, unlimited power, unlimited strength, unlimited influence, unlimited knowledge. That is God. And we are also the same-person-with little power, little influence, little knowledge, everything limited. That is the difference between two personalities. One is limited, another is unlimited, but the qualities are the same.



Hayagrīva: Jung then found that the philosophies and theologies, at least of the West, could not give him a clear picture of God's personality. He concluded, "What is wrong with these philosophers? I wondered. Evidently they know of God only by hearsay."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That I was complaining, that none of these rascals have any clear idea of God. They are simply speculating. Therefore they cannot speak anything about religion or God, because they have no clear conception. But so far we are concerned, we have got clear conception of God: "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." And we want to give that conception to the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Person, Supreme God, by everyone, all authorities, past, present, future must be. So why they do not accept this personal God? If they have got any reason, if they have got any logic, any philosophy, here is Kṛṣṇa, perfect God. So He, according to Vedic scripture, He is complete, cent percent God. Other incarnation of God, they are not cent percent. It has been analyzed in our Nectar of Devotion. Up to Nārāyaṇa, ninety*-four percent God, ah, ninety-six percent God. Lord Śiva, eighty-four percent God, Lord Brahma, er, eighty...



*Hari-śauri: Seventy*-eight?



*Prabhupāda: Seventy*-eight percent. That is also very minute quantity of the characteristics and qualities of God. But Kṛṣṇa is full-fledged, cent percent God. That Rūpa Goswami has analyzed in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. We have given the translation in Nectar of Devotion. So God is person. Simply if we study man's character, then we can study also God, the same character. Loving affairs, as we also want to enjoy with friends, with girls, with parents, with superiors, with servants, as we take pleasure in these relationship, similarly, God also takes pleasure in these similar relationship. He has got five relationship primarily, and seven relationship secondarily. So twelve kinds of relationship, and therefore He is described, akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu, reservoir of all pleasure. That is His completeness. So the philosophers, they should try to understand, and very, I mean, analytically, what is God. They do not know God, and they speak of God, imaginary. That is not perfect knowledge. One must study what is God with perfect knowledge. That is advancement of knowledge. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:



*mayy āsakta*-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

[Bg. 7.1]



*Kṛṣṇa addressed Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, simply by concentrating your attachment for Me," mayy āsakta, "and practicing the bhakti*-yoga under My light," mayy āsakta-manāḥ yogam... Mad-āśrayah. You can learn about God by keeping yourself always under the protection of God, or under the protection of the representative of God. Then, asaṁśayam, without any doubt, samagram, perfectly, you can understand God. Otherwise there is no possibility. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, asaṁśayam. Then there will be no doubt whether God is there or not, what is my relationship with God, what is my duty, and so on. Everything you will know. That is perfect life, Kṛṣṇa conscious life.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "The theologians are different from the philosophers in this respect at any rate. At least they are sure that God exists, even though they make contradictory statements about Him. God's existence does not depend on our proofs. I understood that God was, for me at least, one of the most certain and immediate of experiences."



Prabhupāda: Yes, that is transcendental conviction, and it is very easy to understand that God is there. I do not know God, that is another thing. I will have to learn it. But God is there. There is no doubt about it. Any sane man can understand. You cannot say there is no God, because you are under control. So who is that controller? The supreme controller is God. This is sane man's conclusion. Now, I do not know who is God then, but there is God, that's a fact. So he is right when he says I believe or not believe, there is God. Now, it will depend on my personal endeavor to know God. Go on.



*Hayagrīva: He writes, "In my darkness I could have wished for nothing better than a real live guru"*-he uses the word guru-"someone possessing superior knowledge and ability who would have disentangled for me the involuntary creations of my imagination."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru. Guru, that is required: tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is Vedic process. To have, to possess perfect knowledge one must have guru, and guru means one has..., one is actually representative of God, not theoretically, but one who has practically seen and experienced God. We have to approach such guru then by service and by surrender, and by sincere inquiries we shall be able to understand what is God. That is required. The speculation is no use. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam [SB 10.14.29]. This is the statement of Vedic literature. "My Lord, one who has received a little mercy and favor of Your Lordship, he can understand. Others may speculate for millions and millions of years, avacintya-tattve. Still they will remain in the fathom of inconceivable energy. There is no possibility." This is not the process. It clearly described in the Bhāgavata, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55], simply through the process of bhakti. Bhakti means śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], hearing, chanting about Viṣṇu, always remembering Him. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām [Bg. 9.14]. That is the process. Always glorify the Lord, and devotee's only business is to glorify. That is devotee. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ [SB 7.9.43]. A devotee's consciousness is always drowned in the ocean of the pastimes of the Supreme Lord, unlimited activities, and devotees always think of that activities. Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta, that is, means that drowned in the ocean of the activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So that is transcendental bliss, and one should learn how to be always merged in the ocean of God consciousness. That training is given by the spiritual master; therefore one must have, ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is under the direction of ācārya, he knows everything about God. [break]



Hayagrīva: He gave the following criticism of Sigmund Freud. He says, "Sexuality evidently meant more to Freud than to other people. For him it was something to be religiously observed."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "One thing was clear. Freud, who had always made much of his irreligiosity, had now constructed a dogma, or rather in the place of God, whom he had lost, he had substituted another compelling image, that of sexuality."



Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. He has taken sexuality as God. But our position is that we must accept a leader. That is our natural tendency. So he gave up the leadership of God and took the leadership of sex. That is his position. Leadership we must have. That is..., this question also I asked to Professor Kotovsky, that "Where is the difference between your philosophy and our philosophy? You accept leader, Lenin. We accept leader, Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difference in the process?" So this is the nature of human being, to accept a leader. But this man, unfortunately, he lost the leadership of God and he took leadership of sex. That is his position.



Hayagrīva: Jung concluded, concerning Freud, he said, "Freud never asked himself why he was compelled to talk continually of sex, why this idea had taken such possession of him. He remained unaware that his monotony of interpretation expressed a flight from himself, or from that other side of him which might perhaps be called mystical. So long as he refused to acknowledge that side," that is the mystical side, "he could never be reconciled with himself."



Prabhupāda: (aside:) You are feeling sleepy. So then sleep. Feeling disturbed. [break]



Hayagrīva: He said that Freud's absorption with sexuality expressed a flight from himself, a fleeing from himself, from the side of himself which might be called mystical. As long as he refused to acknowledge that side, that is the mystical side, he could never be reconciled with himself, could never be at one with himself. So...



Prabhupāda: Yes. He was under the leadership of sexuality. That's a fact. Everyone is under the leadership. Just like sometimes we say, "The material scientists say like this, they say like this." He accepts the leadership. So we have to accept the leadership, but if we accept the leadership of Kṛṣṇa, then our life is perfect. Other leadership is māyā, māyā's leadership. But we have to accept leadership. There is no doubt of it. So he accepted the leadership of sex, but he did not admit it, but going on speaking on sex. And those who have taken the leadership of God, they will speak only of God, nothing else. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, that we are eternal servant of God. So as soon as we give up the service of Lord, then we have to accept the service of māyā. So all these different atheists, scientists, they are all servants of māyā instead of becoming servant of God. He is servant, but he is servant of māyā. That is the difference between devotee and the materialistic person.



*Hayagrīva: He saw that the soul was always longing for light, the urge to rise out of the primal darkness, and he says, "That is the pent*-up feeling that can be detected in the eyes of primitives," that is primitive people, "and also in the eyes of animals. There is a sadness in animals' eyes, and we never know whether that sadness is bound up with the soul of the animal or is a poignant message which speaks to us out of that existence."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is seeking, that constitutionally he is servant. He is seeking serve master. That is natural potency. So in the animal kingdom, animal life, just like a small cat... What is called? Child of cat and dog, what is called? Cat? A baby chi..., a baby dog, what is called, puppy?



Devotee: Puppy.



*Prabhupāda: The puppy is, you will sometimes find, they try to take shelter of some boy, of some man. Natural tendency. "Give me shelter. Keep me as your pet." They are happy. That means by nature they are wanting some shelter. A child is also wanting some shelter. So that is our constitutional position. So in the human form of life, when consciousness is developed, that tendency to have a leader, to take shelter, that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving direction that "You want shelter, you want guidance, so you take My guidance," sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66], "then you will be perfect." That is the ultimate instruction of Bhagavad-gītā.



*Hayagrīva: In 1938 Jung was invited by the British government to take part in celebrations connected with the twenty*-fifth anniversary of the University of Calcutta. He writes, "By that time I had read a great deal."



*Prabhupāda: Twenty*-fifth anniversary?



Hayagrīva: Hm?



*Prabhupāda: Twenty*-fifth.



Hayagrīva: Anniversary, 1938.



Prabhupāda: So Calcutta University was started long ago.



Hari-śauri: 1913.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Devotee: 1913.



Hayagrīva: The University of Calcutta.



Prabhupāda: No. Calcutta University was started long ago.



Hayagrīva: Before that?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hari-śauri: Must have been misinformation.



Hayagrīva: Hm. Well it could have been mistyped or it could have been mis...



Prabhupāda: Yes. Maybe "eighteen..."



*Hayagrīva: Ah*-ha.



Prabhupāda: 1813 maybe.



Hayagrīva: 1938. I don't, I'll, I'll have to check these dates.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Calcutta University was started long ago.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "By that time I had read a great deal about..."



Prabhupāda: About 1813. 1813.



Hayagrīva: 1813. So maybe it's the..., maybe it was the anniversary that's wrong. Probably not the year, because he was most famous in '38. He wasn't..., before that he wasn't.



Prabhupāda: Hm. Anniversary maybe. Anniversary is going on.



*Hayagrīva: It might have been the 50th anniversary also. He writes, "By that time I had read a great deal about Indian philosophy and religious history and was deeply convinced of the value of Oriental wisdom." On this visit Jung had an opportunity to talk with S. Subrahmania Ayer, the guru of the Mahārāja of Mysore, who hosted Jung. Jung says that he studiously avoided the so*-called holy men. He says, "I did so because I had to make do with my own truth, not to accept from others what I could not attain on my own. I would have felt it as a theft had I attempted to learn from the holy men and to accept their truth for myself. Neither in Europe can I make any borrowings from the East, but I must shape my life out of myself, out of what my inner being tells me or what nature brings to me."



Prabhupāda: He did not like to accept any guru.



*Hayagrīva: Self*-reliance.



Prabhupāda: Huh?



*Hayagrīva: This seems to be a self*-reliance.



Prabhupāda: Then how he accepts Indian pleasure(?)?



Hayagrīva: Well on the one hand at least he didn't accept...



Prabhupāda: He must...



Hayagrīva: On the one hand he says he wanted a guru.



Prabhupāda: Huh.



Hayagrīva: Previously.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: But here, after going to Calcutta, perhaps it was the, the so*-called gurus that he met that discouraged...



*Prabhupāda: The so*-called gurus are there, many. That is no doubt. So he might have seen some bogus guru, he did not like. But the principle of accepting guru cannot be avoided. That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: That contradicts the previous statement.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: Concerning consciousness after death, Jung feels that after death the individual must pick up the level of consciousness which he left.



Prabhupāda: He continues.



Hayagrīva: The level of consciousness.



Prabhupāda: Continues.



Hayagrīva: Continues.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, according to that consciousness he has to accept a body. That is trasmigration of the soul. That ordinary person, they can only see the body, but along with the body there is mind and there is intelligence, there is ego. One cannot see what is mind, what is intelligence. So there is no reason that when the body is finished why the mind and the intelligence should be finished. But he cannot see the mind, cannot intell..., see the intelligence. He said everything is finished. Why everything should be finished? The body is finished, but the mind is not finished. So the soul is carried by mind, intelligence. That is subtle body. And it is confirmed in the Bhagavad*-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. He is not finished, he is there. He is being carried by mind and intelligence. But these foolish person they cannot see. But even in lifetime they cannot see what is mind. They cannot see what is intelligence.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "One's spiritual education must continue at the point he left off. If there were to be a conscious existence after death, it would, so it seems to me, have to continue on the level of consciousness attained by humanity, which in any age has an upper thought*-variable limit."



*Prabhupāda: That is clearly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that the past consciousness, that passion, the consciousness is continuing. So even the body is destroyed, the consciousness continuing. So due to the consciousness he gets another body, and again, in that body, the future, past consciousness works. So, if, if, if in the past life he was a devotee, again he becomes devotee, and from the point where he died, the material body became destroyed, again, as soon as he gets a body, the same consciousness begins to work. Therefore we find somebody quickly accepts Kṛṣṇa consciousness and sometime it takes delay. So it is continued, past. In every verse we see that, just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. Bahūnāṁ janmanaṁ ante means the consciousness is being continued but the body is changing. Therefore it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Janma means to accept another gross body, but the consciousness is continuing. Just as Bhārata Mahārāja, he changed so many bodies but the consciousness continued. He remained in full understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this is clear, but on account of, I mean to say, dull brain they cannot understand. Here is the reason, that you do not see mind. You have not seen. So Mr. John you see daily, but we don't see Mr. John's intelligence. We can perceive that this man is intelligent, but you have not seen what is intelligent. When he talks, you understand, you perceive, that he has got intelligence. So this gross body, when it is no more talking, so why that intelligence will be finished? This is common sense. When a man talks we say he is intelligent man, but we do not see what is intelligent. So the talking instrument is this body. So this body is finished, gross body is finished, does it mean that his consciousness, intelligence finished? No. That continues. Just like you dream. This body is not working*-this is practical-but his consciousness is working, his mind is working. So similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. After the destruction of this gross body, the mind, intelligence continues, and because to work the mind and intelligence he requires a body, so he develops body. That is transmigration of the soul. It is very clear to understand.



Hayagrīva: Well he felt that the level of consciousness could not supersede whatever knowledge is available on this planet. I guess that's clear.



Prabhupāda: No, it can supersede, provided you get knowledge from authority. Just like somebody is sitting here, he has not seen India. But somebody who has full knowledge of India or seen or gone there, he can describe, and he can understand that there is place, India, the place is like this, like that. So similarly, from authority, just like Kṛṣṇa says, there is another nature: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ avyaktaḥ avyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. That nature is eternal. Here, this nature as we find, it is not eternal. It is temporary. It takes birth, it is maintained for sometimes, it changes, it becomes old, and again destroyed, finished. And therefore in this material there is dissolution, but there is another world, which has no dissolution. That information we get from authority, Kṛṣṇa. Sanātanaḥ. Everything finished here, that is not finished. So we have to receive this knowledge from authority, not necessarily by your personal experience. Parokṣa, aparokṣa this is called. There are different stages of knowledge. Pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprākṛta. So that requires advancement of knowledge. So, not that all knowledge we can have by direct perception. That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: He says, "This is probably why earthly life is of such great significance and why it is that what a human being brings over at the time of his death is so important. Only here in life on earth can the general level of consciousness be raised. That seems to be man's metaphysical task." So since consciousness survives death it must therefore be elevated while man is on earth.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That consciousness should be developed automatically. Paurva*-dehikam in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. What is that verse? In the Sixth Chapter, paurva-dehikam.



Hari-śauri: "The unsuccessful yogi, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people or into a family of rich aristocracy."



Prabhupāda: Hm. Then?



Hari-śauri:



atha vā yoginām eva

kule bhavati dhīmatām

etaddhi durlabhataraṁ

loke janma yad īdṛśam

[Bg. 6.42]



"Or he takes his birth in a family of transcendentalists who are surely great in wisdom. Verily, such a birth is rare in this world."



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Hari-śauri:



*tatra taṁ buddhi*-saṁyogaṁ

*labhate paurva*-dehikam

[Bg. 6.43]



Prabhupāda: Dehikam.



Hari-śauri:



yatate ca tato bhūyaḥ

*saṁsiddhau kuru*-nandana



"On taking such a birth, he again revives the divine consciousness of his previous life, and he tries to make further progress in order to achieve complete success, O son of Kuru."



*Prabhupāda: That is... When the, the incompleteness of his yoga practice, if he dies prematurely, or he could not finish and die, so the consciousness goes with him. So, in the next life again he begins from that point, paurva*-dehikam. What is the exact word? Tatra? Buddhi...?



*Hari-śauri: Buddhi*-saṁyogam, revival.



*Prabhupāda: Ah, buddhi*-saṁyogam.



Hari-śauri: Revival of such consciousness.



*Prabhupāda: The intelligence becomes revived, buddhi*-saṁyogam. Then?



*Hari-śauri: Labhate paurva*-dehikam.



*Prabhupāda: Ah, labhate paurva*-dehikam. That is everything, spiritual and material. Materially also we find sometime when one person is very extraordinary individual. In the class some student picks up very quickly, some student cannot understand. So this is continuation. One is intelligent means he has got some previous revival of his consciousness. So in this way it is going on. That is the proof, immortality of the soul. Otherwise why? Paurva-dehikam, previous birth. This is the proof.



Hayagrīva: There's a lot of sort of interesting points here.



Prabhupāda: Hm. [break]



Hayagrīva: He points out that there's a paradox surrounding death. "On the one hand, from the point of view of the ego," or what we call the false ego, "death is a horrible catastrophe, a fearful piece of brutality. On the other hand, from the point of view of the psyche, the soul, death is a joyful event, in the life of eternity it is a wedding."



Prabhupāda: Yes. In all cases it is eternal, but it is, death is horrible for the person who is going to accept a lower grade of life, and it is pleasure for the devotee, that he is going back to home, back to God. That is the difference.



Hayagrīva: So it's not always a joyful event for the soul.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: Oh.



Prabhupāda: How it can be? If he is, if he is not developed...



Hayagrīva: Yes.



*Prabhupāda: ...to spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is very horrible for him. But in this life he became very proud, "I don't care for God, I am independent," and so on, so on, so on, talking like a crazy fellow. But after death he has to accept a body as dictated by nature: "My dear sir, you have worked like a dog, you become a dog. You liked this surfing in the sea, now you become a fish." That will be given by the superior order. Karmaṇā daiva*-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. You have worked in a certain way. Now, by superior, super, superior dictation you will accept a type of body naturally. If you have infected some disease, when you are attacked by the disease you cannot protest because you have got already infected. Similarly, we are creating our next body, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. We are keeping ourself in touch with a certain type of modes of material nature. That means we are creating our next body. How we..., can you stop it? That is nature's way. The same, if you have infected some disease you must get that disease. Similarly, there are three modes of material nature, tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa, and transcendental. As you have kept your association in this life you get the similar body, paurva-dehikam. So even if you fail to achieve the highest goal in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, still, because you have kept yourself in the association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you are going to get the chance to take birth śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe [Bg. 6.41], either in the family of pure, purity, brāhmaṇa, or in the aristocratic family. In both the families, you get the chance of reviving your spiritual consciousness. But we forget that, or we do not get superior guidance, then we again fall. But there is chance. One who is born in rich family, one who is born in high-grade family, he has got the chance, and (indistinct) to take lessons from Bhagavad-gītā that "I have become..., I am born in rich family or in a brāhmaṇa family, so I am well situated. Now I must take where I left my, developed my spiritual consciousness." So if he tries, he gets the chance. So human form in general is a chance for making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, especially when one is born in aristocratic family or a brāhmaṇa family or a Vaisnava family.



Hayagrīva: Despite so many interesting points, Jung appears to have a somewhat limited understanding of Indian philosophy. He did not appear to understand that saṁsāra, although it appears to be endless, can be ended if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, that there is mukti, that saṁsāra can be overcome by surrendering unto Mukunda. He writes, "The succession of birth and death is viewed as an endless continuity, as an eternal wheel rolling on forever without a goal. Man lives and attains knowledge and dies and begins again from the beginning." He says, "Only with the Buddha does the idea of a goal emerge, namely the overcoming of earthly existence."



*Prabhupāda: Hm. So overcoming the earthly existence means you enter in the spiritual world, because spirit soul is eternal. So from this atmosphere to another. That is explained clearly in the Bhagavad*-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this present body, this is material, so those who continue to, in the cycle of birth and death, they get another material body, but those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they do not get another material body, but he goes to Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference.



*Hayagrīva: Kṛṣṇa says that over and over in Bhagavad*-gītā. He says it many times.



Prabhupāda: Yes, that, that is for the dviṣataḥ krūrān [Bg. 16.19], those who are envious of Kṛṣṇa. For them, continuous. And those who are not envious, accepts Kṛṣṇa's instruction, surrenders unto Him and understands Kṛṣṇa, for them this is the last birth, material birth. After this he goes back to home, back to Godhead.



Hayagrīva: Concerning the question whether karma is personal...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



*Hayagrīva: ...he writes, "The crucial question is whether a man's karma is personal or not. If it is, then the pre*-ordained destiny with which a man enters life represents an achievement of previous lives, and a personal continuity therefore exists. If, however, this is not so, and an impersonal karma is seized upon in the act of birth, then that karma is incarnated again without there being any personal continuity."



Prabhupāda: What is that impersonal karma? Karma is always personal.



Hayagrīva: Karma is always personal.



Prabhupāda: Personal.



Hayagrīva: He points out that Buddha was twice asked by His disciples whether man's karma is personal or not. Each time he fended off the question and did not go into the matter. To know this, he said, would not contribute to liberating oneself.



Prabhupāda: Because he did not, he did not teach about the soul. Therefore, how he could touch that personal?



Hayagrīva: He refused to respond to those questions.



Prabhupāda: Yes, because he did not accept the soul. That as soon as he denied the personal aspect of the soul, how there can be personal karma? So he wanted to avoid this; otherwise his whole philosophy becomes different.



Hayagrīva: Well this is Jung's conclusion on the matter. He says, "Have I lived before in the past as a specific person?" [break] (aside:) ...other track?



Hari-śauri: Yes.



Hayagrīva: This is a continuation of Jung. Concerning whether or not karma is personal, Jung concludes, "Have I lived before in the past as a specific personality, and did I progress so far in that life that I am now able to seek a solution?"



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is tle fact.



Hayagrīva: He says, "I do not know."



*Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad*-gītā, tataḥ paurva-dehikaṁ yatate paurva-dehikam. This is individual.



Hayagrīva: He says, "Buddha left the question open, and I like to assume that he himself did not know with certainty."



Prabhupāda: (chuckles softly while Hayagrīva continues reading)



Hayagrīva: "I could well imagine that I might have lived in former centuries and there encountered questions I was not yet able to answer, that I had to be born again because I had not fulfilled the task that was given to me."



Prabhupāda: That is fact.



Hayagrīva: "When I die, my deeds will follow along with me. That is how I imagine it."



Prabhupāda: That is karma.



Hayagrīva: That's personal karma?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "I will bring with me what I have done. In the meantime it is important to insure that I do not stand at the end with empty hands."



Prabhupāda: No. So you are, if you are regularly progressing, that then at the end it is not empty, it is completeness. To go back to home, back to Godhead, that is completeness; that is not empty. The Māyāvādī can not understand the posi..., positivity of God's kingdom, so they simply make empty. There is no positive concept, therefore...



Hayagrīva: No. He says... No. He says, "It is important that I do not stand at the end with empty hands."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that nobody has...



Hayagrīva: That, in others words, he has good deeds and...



Prabhupāda: No, not only good deeds, that is our aspiration. We don't want emptiness.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Because these materialistic persons, they do not want emptiness, they think that "After finishing this life everything will be empty. So let me enjoy as much as possible in this life." That is their view, that "I am going to be empty. Now before becoming empty, let me enjoy as far..." And the sense enjoyment is the center of material life. Therefore these materialistic person(s) are so much after sense enjoyment. Propriety is one of them. Because their life is empty after death, so because, be..., "Before it becomes empty, let me enjoy as far as possible."



Hayagrīva: He believes that karma brings rebirth. He says, "If a karma still remains to be disposed of, then the soul relapses again into desires and returns to life once more..."



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: "...perhaps even doing so out of the realization that something remains to be completed. In my case it must have been primarily a passionate urge toward understanding which brought about my birth, for that is the strongest element in my nature."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So that understanding, I do not know whether he has fulfilled. That understanding is Kṛṣṇa. That is explained, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. That understanding is full, complete, when he comes to the point of understanding Kṛṣṇa, and as soon as he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is successful. His, this journey, material journey, stops. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. That is full understanding. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su*-durlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. When he understands Kṛṣṇa in complete... And Kṛṣṇa is giving lesson how he, one can understand Kṛṣṇa completely. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu [Bg. 7.1]. Kṛṣṇa says, "Now hear how you can understand Me in complete, without any doubt." That He begins in the Seventh Chapter. So if we understand Kṛṣṇa in complete, without any doubt, then our next birth is in the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. This is the version of Bhāgavata. So we have got this opportunity, at least those who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to understand Kṛṣṇa completely, without any doubt. Then our life is successful.



Hayagrīva: He sees the word of God and God as being the same.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: He says, "It is not that God is a myth, but that myth is the revelation of a divine light in man. It is not we who invent myth; rather, it speaks to us as a word of God. The word of God comes to us, and we have no way of distinguishing whether and to what extent it is different from God."



Prabhupāda: It is not at all different from God. God is absolute; *therefore His words are as good as God. That we were discussing this morning, that God's name and God is the same. God's pastimes and God is the same. God's Deity and God is the same. So anything in relationship with God is God, just like Bhagavad*-gītā is God. Because everything is God, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4], everything is God, but when there is God realization, that is God. Otherwise God, everything is God. Without God, nothing can exist.



Hayagrīva: He conceived of what he called a persona. He says, "The persona is the individual system of adaptation to, or the manner he assumes in dealing with, the world. A profession, for example, has its own characteristic persona, only the danger is people become identical with their personas: the professor with his textbook, the tenor with his voice. One can say, with a little exaggeration, that the persona is that which in reality one is not, but which oneself as well as others think one is."



*Prabhupāda: That persona-for as I take it from this statement*-that persona, when when comes to the understanding that I am eternal servant of God, that persona is salvation, perfection. Persona must be there, but so long one is in the material world, his persona, or identification with some interest, varieties. Sometimes his persona is with the family, his persona is with the community or with the nation or with some idealism, Communism, this "ism," that "ism," this is going on. But when that persona comes to the understanding of Kṛṣṇa, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is perfection. Persona must continue.



Hayagrīva: So this persona he's speaking of is like the false ego.



Prabhupāda: The false ego, so long he is in the material world. Otherwise "I am." "I am American," this is false ego, and "I am servant of God, Kṛṣṇa," that is reality, that is real ego. We say, therefore, false ego. Ego must be there. That purified ego is, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise "I am this," "I am that," "I am this," "I am that."



Hayagrīva: He envisions the self as a personality...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...composed of the conscious and also the subconscious.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is depending on the personality, and he is surrounded by so many conceptions. When the en..., what is called, (indistinct), we see different types of dreams, but when we are purified, then, just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu was dreaming Kṛṣṇa's pastime. So similarly, when we are completely purified we dream also about Kṛṣṇa, His activities, His preaching, so many in connection with reference to Kṛṣṇa. So persona is permanent, but when we apply this persona in the material activities, that is temporary, false, false ego, and when the same persona is engaged as servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is self*-realization.



Hayagrīva: He believed that the self, which is basically a personality...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...composed of the conscious and the subconscious, the sub..., can never be fully known by the individual, but it does have individuality.



*Prabhupāda: That individual, I, I know that I am individual person, I have got my own ideas, my own activities. Where is the difficulty? Simply it has to be purified. Sarvopādhi*-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. I am identifying with America or India or Hindu or Muslim or this or that. This should be purified. I should identify with Kṛṣṇa, that "I am only servant of Kṛṣṇa and devotees." Then I am purified.



Hayagrīva: He did... He speaks of the soul in this way. He says, "If the human soul is anything, it must be of unimaginable complexity and diversity, so that it cannot possibly be approached through a mere psychology of instinct."



*Prabhupāda: That he does not know. As soon as we train ourself, that just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a śūdra, I am not a sannyāsī, I am not brahmacārī." By negation. "I am not, I am not, I am not." Then what is your actual? That gopī*-bhartuḥ kamalayor dāsa-dāsānu: [Cc. Madhya 13.80] "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of the maintainer of gopīs." That means Kṛṣṇa. "That is my real identification." So I have, so long we do not identify as the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, there will be so many varieties of identification, and bhakti, devotional service, means to become purified from all this false identification.



Hayagrīva: He says, "I can only gaze with wonder and awe at the depths and heights of our psychic nature."



*Prabhupāda: Psychic nature means so long you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious there will be varieties of psychic nature, because we are changing constantly to different bodies by transmigration. So we, we are accumulating varieties of experiences. But if we don't change, remain fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then one identification we have got*-that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. My duty is to serve Him." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73], as Arjuna realized after studying Bhagavad-gītā. "Yes," naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā. "Now I have revived my real consciousness and I will act as You dictate." That is final.



Hayagrīva: Concerning God and God's relation...



*Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat*-prasādān mayācyuta. Find out.



Hari-śauri: What was that line again, Śrīla Prabhupāda?



*Prabhupāda: Naṣṭaḥ, n*-a-s-t-a, naṣṭaḥ mohaḥ.



Hari-śauri: Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā?



Prabhupāda: Hm. Now we, we are passing on through mohaḥ, illusion. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness the delusion should be over.



*Hari-śauri: Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat*-prasādān mayācyuta.



*Prabhupāda: Tvat*-prasādāt.



Hari-śauri: Sthito 'smi.



*Prabhupāda: Tvat*-prasāda?



Hari-śauri: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



*Hari-śauri: Tvat*-prasādān mayācyuta.



*Prabhupāda: Oh. Tvat*-pradāda, "by Your mercy." This mohaḥ, the illusory existence, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am black," "I am white," "Hindu," "Muslim," this is all mohaḥ. So it can be liberated. From this mohaḥ we can be liberated by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Naṣṭaḥ mohaḥ smṛtiḥ labdhā prasādāt tvat, "by Your mercy." Then?



*Hari-śauri: Sthito 'smi gata*-sandehaḥ kariṣye...



*Prabhupāda: Sthito 'smi gata*-sandehaḥ: "Now all my doubts are over. I am fixed up now in my original position." So what is that original position?



Hari-śauri: Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava.



Prabhupāda: Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Now I simply act and do whatever You say, that's all." That is perfection. He is perfect. Everything is there.



Hayagrīva: Concerning God and the individual soul, he writes...



Prabhupāda: Now here is the perfection. Kṛṣṇa is speaking; *individual soul, Arjuna, is hearing. So hearing, hearing, when he comes to the conclusion that "My all illusion is now over by Your mercy. Now I am fixed up in my original position." And what is that original position? Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Whatever You say, I shall do. The Bhagavad*-gītā began from the point that Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "You fight," and he denied to fight. He put so many pleas, that "How can I fight with them?" and so on, so on, so on, so on, so on. This whole discussion was made. Now at the end he says, "Now my mohaḥ, illusion, is over. I am situated in my own original constitutional position." What is that? Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Whatever You say, I shall do, that's all. That's my position." That conclusive platform, that we shall simply execute the orders of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. [break]



Hayagrīva: This is continuation of Jung. Jung noted that there are five types of rebirths, not he that particularly ascribed to them, but that he noted that in religions that there are five types of rebirth. One is called metempsychosis. He says, "According to this view, one's life is prolonged in time by passing through different bodily existences, or from another point of view it is a life sequence interrupted by different reincarnations. It is by no means certain whether continuity of personality is guaranteed or not. There may only be a continuity of karma." So this is like a transmigration of souls.



Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the technical name?



Hayagrīva: But... He called, its metempsychosis.



Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?



Hayagrīva: It means transmigration of souls...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...but through different, passing through different bodily existences.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: The life sequence is interrupted by different reincarnations, but it's not certain whether or not personality survives. There may only continuity of karma.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal, personality is there. Suppose a man rebukes a dog. So the dog also responses. Even a small ant, it is going to certain direction, if you check it, it will protest. So personality is there always, either in the body of human being, cats, dogs, even an ant. So the bodily changes do not affect the personality, but one identifies himself according to the body. When a soul is within the, a body of a dog, he thinks in that bodily conception, "I am dog, I have my duty." In the human society also. When one is born in America, he thinks, "I am American, and my duty is like this, my duty is like this, I am..." So this, according to the body the personality manifests, but personality is there.



Hayagrīva: Personality is there certainly, but is it continued? Is there a continuity of personality from the dead body to the new body?



Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.



Hayagrīva: Well, according to the first theory of rebirth, that's not guaranteed. Now the second theory of rebirth...



*Prabhupāda: No. That they do not know. The same soul is, is passing through another gross body with his mental, intellectual identification. He is..., that is nature's gift. That is said in the Bhagavad*-gītā: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. As we have infected a certain type of modes of nature, he is getting a similar body, but the person is the same.



Hayagrīva: Now the, this would be the view, the second view, that is reincarnation. "This concept of rebirth necessarily implies the continuity of personality. Here the human personality is regarded as continuous and accessible to memory, so that when one is incarnated or born one is able, at least potentially, to remember that one has lived through previous existences, and that these existences were one's own, namely that he had the same ego form as the present life. As a rule, reincarnation means rebirth in a human body."



*Prabhupāda: Not human body. Just, we have got historical references in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. A king, Bhārata Mahārāja, he was king, and in next life he became a deer, and the next life he became a brāhmaṇa. So the soul is continuing, changing. The example is given, just like a man changes his dress. The man is the same; the dress may be different. That is going on. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. This very word is there. Just when the dress is old it cannot be used any more, he has to change another, to another dress. It is very common sense. So now that next dress you have to purchase or you have to prepare according to your money. Your dress is something now; *the next dress you will purchase according to your money. So the exact example is very nice*-to change the dress. The man is the same, but he exchanges dress, and the dress is supplied according to the price he can pay. This is common sense. So the price means karma. According to karma he has done, he gets a particular type of body.



Hayagrīva: The third type...



Prabhupāda: Another continuation is that the child changes body. So as he was acting in his childhood, he does not act in the same way when he has got the different body of a young man, but the same soul is there. It can be understood very easily.



Hayagrīva: The third type of rebirth listed is called resurrection. Now there are two types of resurrection. He says, "It may be a carnal, that is gross, material body, as in the Christian assumption that this body will be resurrected." That is the Christian doctrine, is that at the end of the world the..., somehow or other, through the miracle of God, the gross body will reassemble itself and ascend into heaven or descend into hell. Somehow survival of the gross body. He says, "On a higher level..."



Prabhupāda: And what he will do in the meantime?



Hayagrīva: I don't know what happens...



Devotee: (indistinct)



Hayagrīva: ...what happens to the material elements. The material elements disintegrate, disintegrate...



Prabhupāda: The material body...



Hayagrīva: They're distributed in nature.



Prabhupāda: ...it finishes, but of course this idea can be maintained. In the higher sense, that is not gross body; that is spiritual body. That is applicable to God and special representative of God, not to all. Then that is not material body; *that is spiritual body. Means when God appears He appears in His spiritual body. It does not change. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that millions of years ago He spoke to the sun*-god, and Arjuna questioned, "How it is to be understood that millions of years ago You spoke it?" So He said that "Yes, I did. You were also present, but you do not remember. I remember." So how it is possible? One who does not change the body, He can remember. Just like when we do not change the body, I can remember, but when we change body we do not remember. This is the principle. So this resurrection, I do not know what the exact meaning, but as to the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg. 4.6]. He comes in His original body, not covered by material body. Therefore, because He has no material body, there is no change.



Hayagrīva: I think the Christian, they must..., they do not have a clear idea of this.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: He says, "On a higher level the process of resurrection is no longer understood in a gross material sense. It is assumed that the resurrection of the dead is the raising up of the corpus glorificaciones, that is the glorified body, the subtle body, in the state of incorruptibility."



Prabhupāda: That I said, the spiritual body. The spiritual body never changes. When one comes with the spiritual body there is no change. Material body changes, but God has no material body. The conception of..., Māyāvādī conception that Absolute Truth is impersonal, when He comes as a person He accepts a material body, that is not understood by those who are advanced in spiritual knowledge or take information from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Because He appears as a human being, rascals think that He is a human being, but He is not. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. He has no knowledge of the spiritual body.



*Hayagrīva: The fourth form of rebirth is called renovacio and applies to the transformation of a mortal into an immortal being, of a corporeal into a spiritual being, and of a human into a divine being. Well*-known prototypes of this change are the transfiguration and ascension of Christ and the assumption of the mother of God into heaven after her death together with her body. In other words, the body is somehow..., it doesn't die, the gross body doesn't die, but it's transformed.



Prabhupāda: Spiritual, spiritual body continues. Spiritual body never dies. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So hanyamāne, destruction, is of the material body. The spiritual body is never destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. The spiritual body, neither it is generated, neither it is dead. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ: it is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] it, it is not destroyed even after the destruction of the material body. That is spiritual body.



Hayagrīva: But is there any example of this ascension into heaven? Didn't Arjuna...



Prabhupāda: Huh?



Hayagrīva: ...ascend into...



Devotee: Yudhiṣṭhira?



Hayagrīva: The higher... Who?



Devotee: Yudhiṣṭhira was...



Hayagrīva: Was it Yudhiṣṭhira?



Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many instances. The special instance is Kṛṣṇa and His associates.



Hayagrīva: They didn't go through any death of any sort.



Prabhupāda: No.



Hayagrīva: But the body traveled to...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...higher spheres.



Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...



Hayagrīva: Kṛṣṇa also took Arjuna...



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: ...to...



Prabhupāda: Spiritual body everyone possesses.



*Hayagrīva: The fifth... [break] This is the continuation of Carl Jung. The fifth type of rebirth is called transformation, and this is a form of indirect rebirth. One may use the initiation ceremony of the twice*-born, of the brāhmaṇa. In other words, one has to witness or take part in some rite of transformation. This may be a ceremony, and through his presence at the ritual the individual participates in divine grace.



*Prabhupāda: That is transfer, transformation of the body into knowledge. Dvija, this word, exact word, is dvija. One birth is by the father and mother, and the next birth is by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. That means..., that is also liberation. He understands that he is not this material body. That is spiritual education. Brahma*-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. So birth of knowledge, that is called dvija.



Hayagrīva: Now all of...



Prabhupāda: Uh?



Hayagrīva: All of these preceding quotes were taken from Jung's autobiography.



Prabhupāda: Oh.



Hayagrīva: Now the following quotes are taken from a, a much later book, one of the last books he wrote, called The Undiscovered Self. And it's very popular, and in it he discusses religion, in certain ways almost anticipates the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. At the beginning he defines the purpose of religion. He says, "The meaning and purpose of religion lie in the relationship of the individual to God, or to the path of salvation and liberation." And of the first instance he gives Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and the last instance he gives Buddhism. He says, "From this basic fact, that is the relationship of the individual to God, all ethics is derived, which, without the individual's responsibility before God, can be called nothing more than conventional morality."



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Morality, as we understand from Bhagavad*-gītā, that nobody can approach God without being purified of all sinful reaction. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. A person who has finished all sinful activities, and simply standing on the platform of pious activities, they can understand what is God and be engaged in God's service. And another place it is said by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, param brahma." Every living being is Brahman, spiritual, but Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being; therefore He is paraṁ brahma, and the paraṁ dhāma, and the resort of everything, ultimate resort of everything, and pavitra, purified, there is no material contamination. So, what is this? What does he say in this?



Hayagrīva: That, that same point?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Hayagrīva: All ethics are derived.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. So to become completely pure, then he is the necessity of morality and ethics. Just like we prescribe, "No illicit sex, no meat*-eating, no intoxication, no gambling." These are the four pillars of sinful life. If we avoid these thing, then we can stay on the platform of purity. And God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is based on this morality. One who cannot follow the principles, he falls down from the spiritual platform, and he cannot make any progress. So purity is the basic principle of God consciousness.



Hayagrīva: Jung sees atheistic Communism as the greatest threat in the world today. He writes that "The Communist revolution has debased man, because it robs him of his freedom, not only in the social but in the moral and spiritual sense. The state has taken the place of God. That is why, seen from this angle, the socialist dictatorships are religions, and state slavery is a form of worship."



*Prabhupāda: Yes, I agree with him. That is the degradation of human civilization. But the philosophy of the Communist, that everyone has equal right or everyone must take share of the state equally, that is little, basic principle of real communism. According to our understanding, God is the father, material nature is the mother, and we, all living entities, are sons of the father and mother. So as sons everyone has right to live at the cost of father's property. The whole universe is the property of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all living entities, they are being supported by the father. But one should be satisfied with the supplies allotted to him. That is, Īśopaniṣad says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1]. There is no need of encroaching on others' property. We should not become envious of the capitalist or rich man, because everyone is given his allotment by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I should be satisfied with my allotment. I should not encroach upon others' allotment. But the exploitation idea is not there. The same thing, that nobody should exploit. If one has become rich man, that's all right. That, that is natural. One is born in rich family, from his very birth he is a rich man. So why we should interfere his richness? But everyone should be God conscious. Either the rich man or the poor man, they must be God conscious. And God consciousness means that the property I am owning, or the position I am placed in, that is by God's arrangement. Therefore my duty is to serve God in my position. Sthane sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ manobhiḥ. This is the philosophy of, of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, confirmed by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sthane sthitāḥ. We should stay in our place, as it is allotted by God, but our common culture should be śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ manobhiḥ. We should hear about God and act accordingly-it doesn't matter in which work-then there will be harmony. If we become envious, that "Why this man has become rich? I shall encroach upon him," that is again, another type of revolution or encroachment. That is not required. You remain in your position as you have been allotted, but everyone be engaged in the service of the Lord. The, another example is that the, there are different position of different parts of the body*-the head, arms, the belly, the legs. They are different parts of body doing different function. But the idea is how to maintain this body. So if we, even if we remain in different position, that is we get from the birth, but we, we should be engaged in the service of the Supreme, the owner. Just like the hand is owned by the body; therefore hand must work for the body. The leg is owned by the body; therefore the leg must work for the body. So we are all part and parcel of God, and we should, everyone, we should work for God. And how we shall work, that we have to hear from the position where we are, and act accordingly, then there will be real spiritual communism.



Hayagrīva: In the atheistic Communism he says, "The goals of religion, deliverance from evil, reconciliation with God, rewards in the hereafter, and so on, turns into worldly promises about freedom from care for one's daily bread, the just distribution of material goods, universal prosperity in the future, and shorter working hours." In other words, material, worldly promises are given.



Prabhupāda: In the Communism?



Hayagrīva: In, in atheistic Com..., in Communism.



Prabhupāda: Yes. But they have no idea of spiritual life, neither they can understand that there is spirit with the soul, within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. That they cannot understand.



Hayagrīva: But he feels that socialism or Marxism, Communism, cannot possibly replace religion in the proper traditional sense.



*Prabhupāda: No, it is not religion. It is simply mental speculation*-how to adjust material things. It will never be able to adjust it. That is their simply imagination. It will all fail at the ultimate end.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "A natural function which has existed from the beginning like the religious function cannot be disposed of with rationalistic and so*-called enlightened criticism."



*Prabhupāda: The thing is that these people, they do not understand what is religion. Religion you cannot avoid. That is characteristic. Just like we gave several times this example, that everything has got a particular characteristic. Just like salt, salt is never sweet, and sweet is never salt. It has got a characteristic. A chile is pungent. Similarly, living entity, we are..., what is our characteristic? Our characteristic is to render service. Either you take Communism or this "ism" or that "ism," your real characteristic to render service, that will not change. The, in the capitalist country they are asking people that "You work in the factory and work for me, and whatever I say, you do," and the same thing is being dictated by the Communist leaders. Where is the difference? There is no difference, but it is only difference of nonsensical idea. Therefore a mass of people, they have to render service, either to Mr. Lenin or Mr. Roosevelt, it doesn't matter. He has to render service. But both the services are not being profitable to the mass of people. Therefore we suggest following the footprints of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that you serve Kṛṣṇa. Service is your essential duty, but because your service is wrongly being executed, you are not happy. But if you render your service to Kṛṣṇa, that is natural and you will be happy. So our Kṛṣṇa conscious men, they are happy when rendering service to Kṛṣṇa, or God. So individually or collectively, if every state, every individual person renders service to Kṛṣṇa, then that is perfect stage of life. He has to render service to somebody, but because it is misplaced, he is never happy, but when the service is rendered to Kṛṣṇa, then he will be happy. Service you have to render, without any failure, but he does not know where to render service. That is the difficulty. Communist dictating, "You, sir, render service to me," and the capitalist dictating, "Give me service, sir." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No. No service to this, no service..." Sarva*-dharmān parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "You simply give your service to Me, then ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo, you will become free from all sinful reaction of life." That is our position.



Hayagrīva: He feels that a materialistic Western capitalism cannot possibly defeat a pseudoreligion like Marxism. He says that the only way to combat atheistic Communism is for the individual to adopt, to adopt a nonmaterialistic religion.



*Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It has nothing to do with materialistic "isms." It is directly connect, connected with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. God demands that sarva*-dharmān parityajya mām [Bg. 18.66]. So we are teaching that "You, you are servant, but your service is wrongly placed; *therefore you are not happy. You place or render the service to Kṛṣṇa, you will be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are neither for capitalism nor for so*-called Communism, or not for so-called religion also. We are only for Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.



*Hayagrīva: Jung laments the fact that such a nonmaterialistic faith does not presently exist in the West. He writes, "Not only does the West lack a uniform faith that could block the progress of a fanatical ideology"*-that is Marxism-"but as the father of Marxist philosophy," because Marx was a Westerner, "it makes use of exactly the same spiritual," so-called spiritual, "assumptions, the same arguments and aims." So he feels that man is desperately in need of a religion that has immediate meaning, and he feels that Christianity is no longer effective in combating this.



*Prabhupāda: He has predicted very nice. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is above everything, either Christianism or Marxism or capitalism or anything. It is based on Bhagavad*-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So actually it is a fact. Kṛṣṇa says that if you adopt this principle of life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will remain above all sinful reaction of life and make progress spiritually, gradually.



mām upetya kaunteya

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

[Bg. 8.15]



*If you cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the result will be that "The devotee will come back to Me. And one who attains to Me, he hasn't got to go back again to this material world." In another place the same thing is said: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. "Those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious they, giving, after giving up this body"*-everyone has to give up this body-"he does not accept any more the material body. He comes to Me." "Comes to Me" means "He comes to Me in his spiritual body." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give up this material world and go back to home, back to Godhead.



Hayagrīva: He says, "If the individual is not truly regenerated in spirit, society cannot be either, for society is the sum total of individuals in need of redemption."



Prabhupāda: Yes. That... It is individual. We are individually initiating to Kṛṣṇa consciousness that the mass of people becomes a majority. If not in majority, at least a less percentage, then the face of the world will change. There is no doubt about it.



Hayagrīva: "The salvation of the world consists in the salvation of the individual soul. Man's individual relation to God would be an effective shield against these pernicious influences," that is, atheistic Marxism.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. At least those who have taken Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, they never be converted either by Marxism or this "ism" or that "ism." That is not possible. They can convert the Marxist into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but a Kṛṣṇa conscious person can never be turned into Marxism. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. That is explained in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam. Because they have seen the highest perfection of life, they cannot be misled by all these third-class, fourth-class philosophies.



Hayagrīva: He also felt that materialistic progress is a possible hindrance.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good idea. That is confirmed by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā. Material progress means expansion of the external energy, māyā, illusion. So we are already in illusion, and therefore we practically see the so-called scientists, so-called philosophers, because they are materially advanced, they cannot understand even what is God and what is our relationship. So this is hindrance, the so-called advancement of material science, of material knowledge, is undoubtedly hindrance. Tomāra bhajane bādhā. They are all hindrances to the progressive march of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When we minimize our necessities, that is saintly life*-the bare necessities of life. We are not after very luxurious way of life. We are satisfied only with the bare necessities of life. So it is not an attempt for material progress. It is simply an attempt to make spiritual progress, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



Hayagrīva: Because a favorable environment merely strengthens the dangerous tendency to expect everything to originate from outside,...



Prabhupāda: No, everything originates from inside, from the soul.



*Hayagrīva: He says, "There must be a deep*-seated change in the inner man." He also sees that modern man needs a guru, or someone, he says, "to explain religion to man. Whereas the man of today can easily think and understand all the 'so-called truths' dished out to him by the State, his understanding of religion is made considerably more difficult owing to the lack of explanations. Do you understand what you are reading?" And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?"



*Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Vedic injunction. Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. It is essential that one must go to guru and with guru Guru is representative of God. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. He, guru, being representative of God, he is worshiped as God, but he never says that "I am God." He is servant God. He is worshiped as God, but he is servant of God, and God is the master God. This is the conception of Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And who is guru, that is described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He asked everyone to become guru. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] "Wherever you are staying, it doesn't matter. You become a guru and deliver all these foolish persons who are in ignorance." So one may say that "I am not so learned. How can I become guru?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that you do not require to be a learned scholar. There are many so-called learned foolish scholars. It has no meaning. You just instruct what Kṛṣṇa has instructed. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So real instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā, and any who explains Bhagavad-gītā as it is, he is guru. This is the definition of guru. So if one is fortunate enough to approach such guru, then his life becomes successful. Guru is essential.



Hayagrīva: He feels on the one hand philosophy has degenerated into exclusively...



Prabhupāda: Mental...



Hayagrīva: ...intellectual and academic speculation.



Prabhupāda: ...speculation. That is our opinion. They are simply mentally speculating. It has no value. Unless you are directly in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and assimilate the instructions given by Him, by all your reason, and then in practical life you execute it, then one can become guru, he can do good to others; otherwise not possible.



Hayagrīva: And on the other hand religion, the Christian religion which was understood in the Middle Ages, has become strange and unintelligible to the man of today.



Prabhupāda: It is because it is simply dogmatic. The preachers of the religion, they have no idea, clear idea, but officially they speak something. Neither he understands, neither he can make others to understand. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not such big thing. It is clear in every respect. Therefore this is the expected movement as Mr. Jung wanted. So every sane man should cooperate with this movement and liberate the human society from the gross darkness of ignorance.



Hayagrīva: He characterizes the true religious man as one who is accustomed to the thought of not being sole master of his own house. He believes that God, and not he himself, decides in the end.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally that is the position. What we can decide? That there is already controller over me, so how I can be Absolute? No. Therefore everyone should depend on the supreme controller. That is called, technical language, it is called śaraṇāgati, full surrender. Full surrender. That is called śaraṇāgati.



Hayagrīva: He feels that the only thing that keeps modern man..., that will keep modern man from simply dissolving into the crowd is, he says, "We must ask, 'Have I any religious experience, an immediate relation to God and hence that certainty which will keep me as an individual from dissolving in the crowd of humanity?' " So one's relation with God assures one of one's individuality.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is individual. God is also individual. So one individual is subordinate to the chief individual. That is the Vedic version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), God is also individual being, but He is the Supreme Being, and we are individual being, innumerable. So the difference is that the supreme living being is maintaining us, and we are being maintained. That we should understand. The same example as I gave, the father and the children in the family. The father is maintainer and the children are maintained. This is the real conception of philosophy. The mother is the material nature and father is God, and we are all children. We have got rights to enjoy the father's property, but not encroaching upon others', but as it is allotted by the father. "You sit down here, you take this, that's all," that, that much right I have got. I do not transgress the order of the father; then it is peaceful situation.



Hayagrīva: So that's the end of Jung. (end)





SKINNER & THOREAU.HAY



B. F. Skinner and Henry David Thoreau



Hayagrīva: This is B. F. Skinner. He's an American, contemporary American, and he's a behaviorist. He believes that technology can control people. Just as we can adjust the course of a spaceship, the environment can shape the individual, and therefore it is up to us to control the environment.



Prabhupāda: That is Vedic system, to control the whole mass of people in classification. The intelligent class, the administrative class, the productive class, and the worker class, and less than them, and in their respective position, if they cooperate for the common cause, that becomes a perfect society. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya... Therefore this system is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśrama, social order and spiritual order. The ultimate end is spiritual, but if the social order is not organized, then spiritual order is also disorganized. So there must be division of labor and activities. This is?



Hayagrīva: Skinner believes in what he calls reinforcement, reinforcing people's behavior. He doesn't believe in punishing people when they do wrong, but he believes more in a system of rewards. He writes, "A government may prevent defection by making life more interesting, by providing bread and circuses, and by encouraging sports, gambling, the use of alcohol and other drugs, and various kinds of sexual behavior, where the effect is to keep people within reach of adversive sanctions." So he...



Prabhupāda: He recommends these things?



Hayagrīva: So he believes that through..., by providing the people with sense gratification the government can keep people from acting in an antisocial way.



Prabhupāda: That means he is also of the same category. No, that will not help. Just like, the example is given in this connection, that when there is fire, if you think that putting more and more ghee the fire will extinguish, that is not possible. To keep the society in order they must be educated according to his capacity, and they should be engaged for common benefit. That is required. Not that to encourage them in their bad habits things will be done nicely. No. That is not possible.



Hayagrīva: He ultimately believes in bringing people under control. He says, "If there is any purpose or direction in the evolution of a culture, it has to do with bringing people under the control of more and more of the consequences of their behavior."



Prabhupāda: Yes. Human life is meant for control. That is the Vedic process, tapasya, because the aim is spiritual perfection. If we allow material activities according to the desire of the people, then they forget spiritual identity altogether. So that aim of life in the human form of body is missing, that Vedic civilization is how to raise one to the spiritual platform. Otherwise he remains an animal. First of all we must know what is the aim of life, and then the question of organization. If you do not know what is the aim of life, material adjustment will not make the condition of the society very good. (break ?)



Hayagrīva: His most famous book was Walden II, which was... Thoreau lived in Walden, Henry Thoreau. He lived alone. It was a solitary experiment of plain living and high thinking. He writes, "We practice the Thoreauvian principle of avoiding unnecessary possessions." Thoreau pointed out that the average Concord laborer worked ten or fifteen hours of his..., fifteen years of his life just to have a roof over his head. We could say ten weeks and be on the safe side. Food is plentiful and healthful but not expensive." So he goes on to say that "We strike for economic freedom, we do not believe in unnecessary consumption, we consume less than the average American." So it's an attempt to construct a society somewhat similar to New Vrindaban, with the exception of no spiritual basis as such.



Prabhupāda: That is primitive life, jungle life. Monkey civilization. Of course they claim to be descendant of monkey, that they will go on like that. But that is not human civilization, to keep the monkey in the jungle. We want life, very peaceful life without any unnecessary, what is called, necessities. That is all right. But the aim should be spiritual perfection. Therefore the first thing is what is the aim of life, that should be ascertained. Without aim, if you lounge on this ocean, where you are going? That is useless attempt. We must first of all know what is the aim of life. These people, they do not know what is the aim of life. Simply, superficially they are trying to adjust, "This will be done, this will be done." No. These are all mental speculation. First of all you must know what is the aim of life, and to this, to that direction, we have to adjust things. That is perfection.



Hayagrīva: He writes, "Walden II isn't a religious community. It differs in that respect from all other reasonably permanent communities of the past. We don't give our children any religious training, though parents are free to do so if they wish." Then he goes on to say that "The simple fact is the religious practices which our members brought to Walden II have fallen away little by little like drinking and smoking." He says, "We have no need for formal religion, either as ritual or philosophy."



Prabhupāda: He has no need of religion? Does he say like that?



Hayagrīva: That's what he says.



*Prabhupāda: So without religion, without spiritual ideas, then what is the difference between dogs and man? There is no difference. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the verdict of Vedic civilization. If you do not know what is the spiritual necessity of life, and for awakening his spiritual interest of life the religious system is introduced in the human society... But in that, of course so*-called religion system will not help. Therefore we repeatedly say religion means the execution of the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, no conception, no idea what is God's order, then there is no religion also. That is not religion. So that kind of religion is also, can be neglected, but religion must be there. Otherwise the human society becomes another edition of the animal society.



Hayagrīva: Well, his conception of religion is that of the..., having, playing some music, and uh, daliance with the supernatural, intellectual aesthetic enjoyment. He says, "What else does organized religion provide?" Religion is a form of, sort of enjoying art.



*Prabhupāda: No. Art is there, and singing is there, dancing is there, but that is based on spiritual conception. That is the difficulty in the Western countries, that they are not fully aware of the conception of religion. Therefore Bhāgavata says that cheating religion, dharmaḥ projjhita*-kaitavaḥ. There is no purpose, simply a recreation of different nature in material life. That is, means, they do not know, except sense gratification, any other engagement. They think religion is also another kind of, type of sense gratification, "So we can perform it." And actually that is going on. Whenever there is some festival they change the daily way of life into some more eating, drinking, and dancing, like that. But religion means to understand God and our relationship with God and live in God practically. That is real religion. That is the aim of life.



*Hayagrīva: In Walden II he advised women to get married at about the age of sixteen so that by the time she's twenty*-two or twenty-three a girl will be finished with bearing children, and then she can be on an equal par with men, or her role can then be equal and she can devote her time to other interesting prospects.



Prabhupāda: What is that interesting prospects? That he doesn't know.



*Hayagrīva: Well, uh, he mentions, oh, working together, types of work, all, all types of work are shared equally. Family ties are discouraged. Children are generally held in common. People can live the good life, and he defines, "The good life means the chance to exercise talents and abilities. And we have let it be so. We have time for sports, hobbies, arts and crafts, and, most important of all, the expression of that interest in the world which is science in the deepest sense, an exploration of nature. Last of all, the good life means relaxation and rest." So the, the woman would be able to participate in the good life when she's finished bearing children at the age of twenty*-three or whatever.



*Prabhupāda: They are, difficulty, that is missing, that what is their ideal life, what is the aim of life. So he is prescribing so many things. That will not help the human society. And women, about women, this idea that (s)he should be married at sixteen years old, that is good, but it is not that women stops child breeding by the twenty*-two years age. No. There are many women and they can beget children in, in advanced age. I, so far personally I know, my mother was the youngest daughter, and she was born when my grandmother was fifty years old. So it is not that the woman stops child begetting at the age of twenty-two years age. Nowadays up to thirty years, twenty-five years, woman, woman is married, so how he, she can stop?



Hayagrīva: Well, he wouldn't say stop. He says, "A young couple will live quite as well together whether married or unmarried. Sex is no problem in itself. Here the adolescent finds an immediate and satisfactory expression of his natural impulses." So since the children are held in common, marriage..., you may get married if you like, but it's not required.



Prabhupāda: Children?



Hayagrīva: The children are held in common. They are not... They don't acknowledge any particular, particular parent.



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Hayagrīva: He feels his society is a society of what we call "do your own thing." That is, he doesn't really condemn anything. He says, "What's wrong with love or marriage or parenthood? What's unwholesome about sex? Why make unnecessary problems, unnecessary delays?" The idea is to simplify everything and to get rid of all the impediments to an enjoyable life.



Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is that enjoyable life. He cannot define, definitely, what is that enjoyable life. He is simply hankering after it. That is natural. But he does not know definitely what is that enjoyable life.



Hayagrīva: As close as he comes to a definition of it, he says, "We simply arrange a world in which serious conflicts occur as seldom as possible, or, with a little luck, not at all."



Prabhupāda: What does it mean? Hm?



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's trying to make an ideal arrangement where no conflicts come about.



Prabhupāda: That is materially impossible.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: Unless you come to the spiritual platform, that is not possible at all. But he has no idea of the spiritual life. But these dreams are there because everyone is spiritual being, so he wants that ideal society. But because he has no spiritual idea or aim, he is simply putting some program which is almost Utopia. It will never be possible.



Hayagrīva: He feels that Walden II should be a community without a leader, that uh...



Prabhupāda: He wants to become leader.



Hayagrīva: Yes.



Prabhupāda: That is the idea.



Hayagrīva: The man who's setting up the community.



Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is suggesting that "You make me leader." That is the...



Hayagrīva: This sounds very familiar.



Prabhupāda: Everyone says, "Don't accept leader. Accept me as leader, that's all." But our proposal is that the, without leader nothing can be done. And the supreme leader is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His representative should become leader. Then the society will be perfect. The supreme leader is God. So He gives instruction, and real leader takes the instruction by disciplic succession, and for the benefit of the total human society they spread the message of God. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Without leader nothing can be done. Even if he says that without leader, he is, that preaching is also leadership. So why people should accept his leadership if there is no need of leader?



Hayagrīva: This was the position of Mr. Rose, who started to try to, try a community at, where we have New Vrindaban now. The man we initially bought New Vrindaban from. This was his position: "No leaders." But it turned out that he wanted to be the leader.



Prabhupāda: (laughs) Who is that gentleman?



Hayagrīva: Mr. Rose. You met him once, I recall.



Prabhupāda: Oh. He is not initiated?



Hayagrīva: Oh, no, no. He lives in West Virginia.



Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. In the beginning.



Hayagrīva: In the very beginning.



Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, I met him. He came with another gentleman.



Hayagrīva: That's right. His, his theory of, of death, he says, "When I die I shall cease to exist in every sense of the word. As a personal figure I shall be as unidentifiable as my ashes." No belief in immortality at all.



*Prabhupāda: So why he is anxious to philosophize? If everyone is going to be finished, then why he is philosophizing? What did he..., why he is taking so much trouble? That is the difficulty*-this class of men accepted as philosopher.



Hayagrīva: Oh, he became very popular through this book. I don't know how.



Prabhupāda: Oh, if you prescribe such nonsense book, everyone will like it. (laughs) [break]



Hayagrīva: This is the conclusion of B. F. Skinner. He felt that the goal is to improve the world and then man. He believes that "Now, as never before, man can lift himself up by his own bootstraps, and achieving control of the world of which he is a part, he may learn at last to control himself."



Prabhupāda: That man attempted first of all to control the world?



Hayagrīva: First control the world...



Prabhupāda: Hm.



Hayagrīva: ...and then you can control yourself. That's his theory.



Prabhupāda: If he..., if one cannot control himself, how he will control the world? How it is possible?



Devotee: Backwards.



Hayagrīva: Ultimately he feels that man has no duty. "It is reasonable to look forward to a time when man will seldom have anything to do, although he may show interest, imagination and productivity."



Prabhupāda: Imagination, if he thinks like that, that our society will be perfect on imagination, then what he can say? This is childish. That is going on practically. Everyone is coming, a leader like him, and he is trying to make some followers of his own imagination. That is going on.



Hayagrīva: He, he believed...



Prabhupāda: He has got imagination. He believes in his own imagination. So others can believe in his own imagination. So who is going to follow him? He, he has to remain satisfied with his imagination. I mean, everyone has got imagination. Why he should, one should follow him?



Hayagrīva: Like, like Aldous Huxley, he feels that if happiness isn't possible through not doing anything, in the not too few dis..., in the not too distant future, the motivational and emotional conditions of normal daily life will probably be maintained in any desired state through...



Prabhupāda: He can probably, perhaps...



Hayagrīva: ...through the use of drugs.



Prabhupāda: Oh, he is advocate of drugs.



Hayagrīva: Any emotional state you wish to be in, you can put yourself in that emotional state by simply taking a pill.



Prabhupāda: And put the society in chaotic condition then.



Hayagrīva: In this way society can be controlled, through the use of drugs.



Prabhupāda: Who will control?



Hayagrīva: Well he doesn't believe in any leaders.



Prabhupāda: Then who will control? Society controlled without any controller? What is the meaning?



Rāmeśvara: It's a type of communism, where the people work together in a communal way.



Prabhupāda: How they will work together? They require Lenin, Stalin, or something like that, to force them to work. Still, in Communist country there are manager class. Not only worker class, the manager class. So this is all utopian theory. It has no practical value.



Hayagrīva: In the United States all of the successful utopian communities have had a strong religious leader.



Prabhupāda: Leader must be there, religious or not religious. Everyone has leader. The Communist has got leader, and the spiritualists, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have also leader. So without leader nothing can be done. They may defy leadership, they may defy authority, but one who defies authority, he wants to become authority. So this is natural. Without leader nothing can be done.



Hayagrīva: That's the end of B. F. Skinner. (end)



Song Purports





660330PU.NY

Purport to Bhajahū Re Mana

-

New York, March 30, 1966



*Prabhupāda: This is a song which a devotee is praying and asking his mind, bhajahū re mana. Mana means mind. Because, at the present moment, our mind is the driver, and this body is just like a car... In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. This body is a car made of this material nature. The living entity, what is said, "I," I am now seated on this car prepared by the nature, material nature. And the driver is the mind. And the driver is not in my control. The driver is taking me anywhere he likes. You see? I am... Personally, I am not able to drive. I have engaged one driver, which is called the mind, and this body is the car, and the mind is carrying me like driver anywhere it likes. So therefore the proprietor, I, I am, I am requesting the driver... When I am helpless, so I am requesting, "My dear mind," bhajahū re mana, "my dear mind..." Mana means mind. "You kindly worship Lord Kṛṣṇa." Śrī-nanda-nandana. Śrī-nanda-nandana means Lord Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared as the son of Vasudeva, and He was accepted by Nanda Mahārāja as his, what is called? Son who is accepted from others? So he, he was His foster father. So he's reques... "I am requesting that you worship Lord Kṛṣṇa who is abhaya-caraṇa." Abhaya-caraṇa means He's the fearless shelter. If we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, then we become free from all anxieties. Just like a helpless child, when he's taken care of by his parents, he becomes careless, carefree, not careless, carefree. "Similarly, I am requesting, my dear mind, you do not drive in this way, dangerously. Please worship Lord Kṛṣṇa who is fearless shelter." Bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana-abhaya-caraṇāravinda re: "His lotus feet is fearless shelter." One who takes shelter... As the Lord says in Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Now, either you say Kṛṣṇa or you say Superconsciousness... Superconsciousness is impersonal conception of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is personal conception of Superconsciousness. Because Kṛṣṇa means He's not only superconscious, but He's supreme bliss and supreme knowledge-supreme knowledge means superconsciousness*-and eternal, supreme consciousness, supreme bliss. That is the definition of Kṛṣṇa. Now, then the devotee says that durlabha mānava-janama sat-saṅge taroho e bhava-sindhu re. Now, this body, this human body, is durlabha. Durlabha means very valuable. It is obtained with, after a great struggle of existence. We have to come through so many species of life: aquatics, birds, then trees, then reptiles, then beasts... There are so many, so many. There are eighty-four lakhs, means 8,400,000 species of life, and we had to pass through by gradual evolution. This theory is accepted by Darwin also, evolutionary theory. So this human body is very valuable. So he requests, "My dear mind,..." Mind, of course, in the lower animal life the mind is there also. Also mind is not developed, but they have got mind. It is a... In the very lower animal living condition, the mind is not at all developed, but at least, in animal life there is mind. Now, the devotee requesting that "This life, this human form of life, is very valuable. Don't waste it. Don't waste it, but you just to make your life successful in the association of saints and sages."



Woman: What?



Prabhupāda: Saints. Saints. S, A, I, N, T, S. Saints and sages.



Woman: No, no.



Prabhupāda: You have no saint?



Girl: Saints and sages, S, A, I,...



Woman: Saints?



Prabhupāda: Saints.



Woman: Oh, saints and sages.



Prabhupāda: Yes. Saints and sages. Yes. "So you should not make association with anybody else, but you make your association only with saints and sages and make your, this valuable human form of life successful. Don't waste your time. You worship Lord Kṛṣṇa with the help of the saints and sages and make your life successful." That he is requesting. "Don't drive in this irresponsible way to put me into the ocean." And it is also requested that "We are just like in the ocean of birth and death." This material cosmic situation is sometimes explained as the ocean, and these planets, they are explained as islands. And actually, they are islands in the air. Just like we have got islands in the sea and ocean, similarly, these planets are islands in the air, air islands, so many planets.



*So he says that durlabha mānava*-janama sat-saṅge tara e bhava-sindhu re. Bhava-sindhu. Bhava-sindhu means this cosmic situation where birth and death is going on continually, one after another. "So you stop this business of repeated birth and death. You make your this human form of life successful and get release from this disease of birth and death." Birth and death is a sort of disease for the living entities. It is not the normal condition. Due to our this abnormal encagement in the material body, we are put into the birth and death. Otherwise, I am not subjected to birth and death. I am eternal. I am eternal. So he is requested that "Don't waste your time, my dear mind." Because mind is taking me here and there. So he's requesting mind. It is very philosophical. This is concentration, requesting the mind, "Don't put me into the ocean of birth and death. Please save me, and just make your life successful in the association of saints and sages. That is my request." Bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana. So worship, worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Lord, and, at the same time, association of saints and sages, that makes our life successful. Association of good persons and, at the same time, simultaneously, devotional service to the Lord. These two things combinedly can make our life successful.

Woman: How do you call devotion to the Lord?



*Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Lord... We worship Kṛṣṇa, the symbol of Supreme Consciousness. Because in the Bhagavad*-gītā it is said that kleśa adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. If you take up impersonal, simply consciousness, then you have to pass through difficult process, but if you accept the symbol, Kṛṣṇa, the symbol of Supreme Consciousness, that will be easier for you. Yes. It is said. So Kṛṣṇa... I can concentrate my mind. I can focus my mental activities in the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Because He is Supreme Consciousness, therefore automatically I concentrate on the Supreme Consciousness. So



*bhajahū re mana śrī*-nanda-nandana-

*abhaya*-caraṇāravinda re

*durlabha mānava*-janama sat-saṅge

*taroho e bhava*-sindhu re



Then he says that "What I am doing? What is my present occupation?" The present occupation is:



śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa

e dina jāminī jāgi re

biphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana

*capala sukha*-laba lāgi' re



He says that "I am working hard, day and night. And there is no question of winter or summer or rainy season. I have to work hard, day and night. If there is night duty in the winter season, I have to join my office at twelve o'clock at night. So I must go. There is snowfall. If I don't go, then I'll be absent. So I am working so hard, very hard.'' Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa, jāminī jāgi re. "And what for I am working?'' Now, biphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana: "Just to serve persons who cannot protect me, who cannot protect me.'' We think that my wife, or my husband, or my children, or my relatives, or my friends, and, oh, so many we have got, relationship with this material world And everyone is working to satisfy his relatives. A family man is working so hard because he has to satisfy his wife, children, friends and so many other persons. But one should be conscious that "These friends and relatives, they cannot protect me ultimately. They are Neither I can protect them, nor they can protect me.'' You see? Everyone responsible. Everyone is responsible for his own activities. Besides that Now, suppose if I am constructing a high building, skyscrapers, just like you have got very good experience in this country, if somebody asks me that "Why you are building so high building? What is the reason?'' And if I answer, "Just to set fire it it.'' Then the, the man will laugh, "You, simply for setting fire, you are spending so much money and building this high building for setting fire?'' "Yes.'' So this sort of answer is just like in our present activities. Now, of course, you take the dead bodies to the crematorium and, I mean to say, put into the grave. But India In India, of course, there is graveyard for the Muhammadans and the Christians. But the Hindus, they burn the dead body. They burn the dead body. You see? In the Bhāgavata also, these three system are recorded, that the ultimate transformation of this body will be either ashes, stool or earth.



Woman: Earth...



Prabhupāda: Earth...



Woman: Stool...



Prabhupāda: Stool, or ashes. How it is? Now, because after death, persons who burn the dead body, that is turned into ashes. This body, this beautiful body, will be turned into ashes. And those who bury in the graveyard, that will turn into... Oh, that is air. Don't disturb yourself. That is the air. If we bury in the ground, gradually the body will turn into earth. And according to Iranian system, the body is thrown to the vultures. They eat it. So that will be turned into animal stool. You see? So that is the last stage of this body. So everyone knows that everyone will die. Still, we are working so hard. We are making our bank balance, we are just making will and papers just to give protection to our family or to our children, and there is no time. Everyone is very busy, very busy. But he does not see that "All these, what I am doing, all these body ultimately become either ash or animal stool or turn into earth. So why I am taking so much trouble?" Therefore the revealed scripture advises that "You have to maintain your body. That's all right. But for simply material comforts, you should not devote time more than it is absolutely required." That means don't increase your bodily necessities. Don't increase your bodily necessities. That was the standard of Indian civilization. They did not, the sages and saints, they did not advise to increase the necessities of the body. They, I mean to say, planned the social system in such a way that people should be satisfied only for, by the bare necessities of life. We require some eating, we require some sleeping, or shelter place, and we require some sense gratification, and we require some protection from enemies. Yes? Come. Ah hah! Ah ah haha, ah hah! Come in. Come in. (end)





661105PU.NY

*Purport to Brahma*-saṁhitā

Verses 32 and 38

-

New York, November 5, 1966





(Prabhupāda sings)



*Prabhupāda: This verse is particularly important because it describes the significance of sac*-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. The Lord's body is sac-cid-ānanda. His body is not like ours. Our body is acit and..., asat, acit and nirānanda, just the opposite. Asat means it will not exist, and acit means it is full of ignorance and nirānanda... Nirānanda means full of miseries. These three qualification of our body, whereas the Lord's body is sac-cid-ānanda, it is eternal and full of knowledge and full of bliss. Our body and our self... My body and my self are different. But Lord and Lord's body is Absolute. What is Lord, Lord's body is also the same. So that description is given here. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. The Lord is not impersonal. He has got his form. And what sort of form? We should not consider that whenever there is a question of form, the form must be just like one of us. This is foolishness. Now, His form is completely different, just like we have explained. His form is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], and our, this present material body is asat, acit and nirānanda. Just completely different. So His form, His different parts of the body, described in the Vedas, apāṇi-pādo javano grahītā paśyati... "He has no hands and legs; *still, He accepts all that you offer to Him.'' In the Bhagavad*-gītā also we'll find that



patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

*tad ahaṁ bhakty*-upahṛtam

aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ

[Bg. 9.26]



*"My devotees..." God is not... The Lord is not in need of our offering, but still, He is so kind, if we offer Him something... Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. Not that we have to offer him very luxurious things, very high valuable things. He says that even a piece of leaf, patraṁ, a piece of flower, patraṁ puṣpam, a piece of fruit and little water... That means these four things can be secured by any poor man in any part of the world. There is no botheration for securing a piece of leaf, a piece of flower or a little water or a piece of fruit. Any poor man, any rich man, can secure. And the Lord says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: [Bg. 9.26] "Anyone who offers Me these four things with devotion, with love, I accept them. I accept them." Why? Now, tad ahaṁ bhaktyā upahṛtam aśnāmi. "Because that is secured with sincere love for Me." The Lord accepts our love. Now, the Lord is... You cannot see Him. He is far, far away, and still, He is within us. Therefore His hands is not like our hands. The Vedas... When the Vedas describes, "The Lord has no hands," that means He has no hand like ours, not that a two*-feet hands which we have got, or two or three-feet hands, not this hand. His hand is so large that He can extend His hand in any part of His creation, millions and billions miles away, and everywhere. That is the specific significance of His body. So this is described here.



*aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya*-vṛtti-manti

paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti

*ānanda*-cinmaya-sadujjvala-vigrahasya

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.32]



*And another special significance of the parts of His body, limbs or hands or legs, eyes, ears... What is that significance? Now, each part of His body has got all the potencies of other parts of the body. Just like with our eyes we can simply see. But the Lord, He can not only see by His eyes, transcendental eyes, but He can also hear, He can also eat. All the... All the functions of all other parts of the body, He function by any part of His body, not that a particular part of the body can function only for a particular purpose, no. Just like simply by glancing... In the Vedic literature it is said, sa aikṣata sa asṛjata: "Simply by seeing, simply by seeing, He impregnated all the energies for creating, simply by seeing." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa*-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Simply by His glance. Simply by His glance He impregnates the material energy for functioning. It is going on. So He has got all the potencies in all the parts of His body. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti paśyanti pānti kalayanti [Bs. 5.32]. That is the difference between His body and our body. So when there is description in the Vedas that "He has no leg, no hand, no eyes, "that does not mean He has no eyes. He has got eyes, but not these eyes just like we have got conception. So here it is explained that aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. His parts of the body are invested with all the potencies of other parts of the body. With any part of His body He can function any work.



*(Sings Brahma*-saṁhitā, verses 32-35, 37, 38, 29) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Now, people say that "Whether God can be seen? If anyone has seen God?" Yes, God can be seen. There is no doubt about it. But it requires some qualifications. Not some, but only one qualification. God is so kind that He does not require any material qualification. He does not require that you should be very learned man, very beautiful, or very rich man, or a king or emperor or minister or president, no, nothing of the sort. You can be anything. But only one qualification required. Then you can see God. What is that qualification? (Sings:) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. That qualification is unalloyed love. That's all. One who has achieved that unalloyed, unalloyed love for God... Unalloyed love means without any tinge of philosophical speculation or fruitive activity. That's another subject. It requires great explanation. But unalloyed love means without any tinge of material color. (indistinct) That is called unalloyed. Even philosophical speculation or fruitive activities, if it is offered to the Supreme Lord, that is not love. Love is above this. So if one can achieve that unalloyed love for God, with that, I mean to say, magic wand, the eye becomes eligible for seeing God. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. And that, that eye, is called devotional eye, devotional. We have to... Not only eyes, but every part of our body, we have to spiritualize by the contact. By the contact of spiritual service in devotion of the Lord, we can gradually spiritualize our whole act of senses. Just like a iron rod put into the fire. Gradually the temperature rises. It becomes warm, warmer, warmest, very hot, then red hot. When it is red hot, then it is no longer iron; *it is fire. Similarly, by our contact in devotional service of the Lord we can change the whole position of our material existence. And we have... If we have developed to that state of unalloyed love for God, then God can be seen twenty*-four hours, not that once seen and again not seen. No. This is described here, that santaḥ, the great devotees, unalloyed devotees, who are liberated souls, have no connection with material activities or philosophical speculation, such unalloyed devotees, because their eyes are smeared with the ointment of love only, therefore they can see the Lord sadaiva, always, twenty-four hours. (Sings Brahma-saṁhitā, verses 38, 39, 29, 40, 41.) (end)



670316PU.SF

Purport to Bhajahu Re Mana

-

San Francisco, March 16, 1967



*Prabhupāda: Bhajahū re mana śrī*-nanda-nandana-abhaya-caraṇāravinda re. Bhaja, bhaja means worship; hu, hello; *mana, mind. The poet Govinda dāsa, a great philosopher and devotee of the Lord, he is praying. He is requesting his mind, because mind is the friend and mind is the enemy of everyone. If one can train his mind in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is successful. If he cannot train his mind, then life is failure. Therefore Govinda dāsa, a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa... His very name suggests, Govinda dāsa. Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, and dāsa means servant. This is the attitude of all devotees. They always put, affix this dāsa, means servant. So Govinda dāsa ms praying, "My dear mind, please you try to worship the son of Nanda, who is abhaya*-caraṇa, whose lotus feet is secure. There is no fear." Abhaya. Abhaya means there is no fear, and caraṇa, caraṇa means lotus feet. So he is advising his mind, "My dear mind, please you engage yourself in worshiping the fearless lotus feet of the son of Nanda." Bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana. Nanda-nandana means a son of Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa. And His lotus feet is abhaya, fearless. So Govinda dāsa is requesting his mind, "Please be engaged in the transcendental loving service of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." So far other things are concerned...



*And he says also that durlabha mānava*-janama. Durlabha means very rare to obtain. Mānava-janma means this human form of life. It comes after a very long rotation. Once chance is given to become Kṛṣṇa conscious so that one may get out of the cycle of birth and death. Therefore he advises that this life, this human form of life, is very important, durlabha. Durlabha means... Duḥ means with great difficulty, and labha means obtainable. So foolish people, they do not know what, how much important this human form of life. They are simply wasting in sense gratification like animals. So this is very instructing, that he is training his mind that "You engage your mind in the worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa." Durlabha mānava-janama sat-saṅge. And this training of the mind is possible only in good association, sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means persons who are simply, cent percent, engaged in the service of the Lord. They are called sat. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. Without association of devotees, it is impossible to train the mind. It is not possible by the so-called yoga system or meditation. One has to associate with devotees; *otherwise it is not possible. Therefore we have formed this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society so that one may take advantage of this association. So Govinda dāsa, poet and devotee, is advising, durlabha mānava*-janama sat-saṅge: "You have got this very nice, rare human body. Now associate with devotees and engage your mind on the fearless lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." He is requesting his mind.

*Then he is pointing out the frustration of life. What is that? Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa e dina jāminī jāgi re. Śīta means winter. Ātapa means summer, when there is scorching sunshine. Śīta ātapa bāta, cold, bariṣaṇa, torrents of rain. So these disturbances are always there. Sometimes it is severe cold. Sometimes it is scorching heat. Sometimes there is torrents of rain. Sometimes this or that is going on. So he says, śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa e dina jāminī jāgi re. Whole day and night, people are working very hard without caring, severe cold, severe heat, and torrents of rain, and keeping night, going to the desert, going underneath the sea*-everywhere they are so busy. Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa e dina jāminī jāgi re. There is night duty and so many other engagements. So he says,

śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa

e dina jāminī jāgi re

biphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana

*capala sukha*-laba lāgi' re



*"Now, with all this hard labor, what I have done? I have served some persons who are not at all favorable to my Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And why I have served them?" Capala sukha*-laba lāgi' re: "Capala, very flickering happiness. I think if my small child smiles, I will be happy. I think if my wife is pleased, I think I am happy. But all this temporary smiling or feeling of happiness, they are all flickering." That one has to realize. There are many other poets also, similarly have sung that this is..., this mind is just like a desert, and it is hankering after oceans of water. In a desert, if a ocean is transferred, then it can be inundated. And what benefit can be achieved there if drop of water is there? Similarly, our mind, our consciousness, is hankering after ocean of happiness. And this temporary happiness in family life, in society life, they are just like drop of water. So those who are philosophers, those who have actually studied the world situation, they can understand that "This flickering happiness cannot make me happy."



*Then he says, kamala*-dala-jala, jīvana talamala. Kamala-dala-jala means the lily, lily flower. You have all seen lily flower on the lakes. They are tottering, always in the water. Tottering. Any way, any time, it can be overflooded. Similarly, this life is full of danger always, always in danger. Any moment it can be finished. There are so many instances. People look it, but they forget. That is the wonderful thing. They are seeing every day, every moment, that he is himself in danger, others are in danger. Still, he is thinking that "I am secure.'' This is the position. So life is very tottering and in dangerous position. Therefore one should take advantage of this human form of life and immediately engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be the request of everyone to his mind, "My dear mind, don't drag me in the dangerous position. Please keep me in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.'' Thus Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how it can be achieved, that is also being described by Govinda dāsa. He says,

śravaṇa, kīrtana, smaraṇa, vandana,

*pāda*-sevana, dāsya re,

*pūjana, sakhī*-jana, ātma-nivedana

*govinda*-dāsa-abhilāṣa re



*Abhilāṣa means aspiration, hope, or ambition. He is ambitious of becoming a devotee in nine different ways. The first thing is śravaṇa. Śravaṇa means hearing. One has to hear from authorities. That is the beginning of spiritual life or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Arjuna. He achieved his spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, one has to hear from Kṛṣṇa or from the representative of Kṛṣṇa. One who presents Kṛṣṇa's words as it is-from him one has to hear because at the present moment we have no opportunity to hear directly. To hear directly from Kṛṣṇa is there. The arrangement is there. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, and one can hear from Him very easily, anywhere and everywhere, but he must have the training how to hear. For that purpose one requires the help of the representative of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that one can achieve devotional service of Kṛṣṇa by the combined mercy of Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. By the grace of spiritual master, guru, and by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, one achieves the opportunity of serving Kṛṣṇa in devotional service. So in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is also said that spiritual master is the direct manifestation of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa comes before the devotee as spiritual master just like sun enters your room by the sunshine. Although the sun does not enter your room or your city or your country*-he is so many millions and millions of miles away-still, he can enter everywhere by his potency, the sunshine. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa enters everywhere by His different potencies. And to receive this light from Kṛṣṇa, one has to hear. Hearing is so important. Therefore Govinda dāsa says, śravaṇa. Śravaṇa means hearing. And one who has heard nicely, his next stage will be kīrtanam. Just like our boys who have heard a little nicely, now they are very eager to chant, going from street to street. This is natural sequence. It is not that you hear, but you remain stopped. No. The next stage will be kīrtanam. Either by chanting vibration or by writing or by speaking or by preaching, the kīrtana will be there. So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, first hearing and then chanting. And hearing and chanting about whom? About Viṣṇu, not for any nonsense. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. These things are stated in the śāstra. The ordinary people, they are also engaged in hearing and chanting. They are hearing in the newspaper of some politician, and the whole day they are discussing and chanting, "Oh, this man is going to be elected. This man is going to be elected.'' So hearing and chanting is there everywhere. But if you want spiritual salvation, then you have to hear and chant about Viṣṇu, nobody else. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. So the poet sings, Śravaṇa, kīrtana, smaraṇa, vandana, pāda-sevana, dāsya re. So there are different processes: hearing, chanting, remembering, worshiping in the temple, engaging oneself in the service. So he is desiring all nine kinds of devotional service. Ultimately, pūjana sakhī-jana. Sakhī-jana means those who are confidential devotees of the Lord, to please them. And ātma-nivedana. Ātmā means self, and nivedana means surrender. Govinda-dāsa-abhilāṣa. The poet's name is Govinda dāsa, and he expresses that his desires are only this. He wants to utilize the opportunity of his human form of life in this way. This is the sum and substance of this song. (end)



680106PU.LA

Purport to Gaurāṅga Bolite Habe

-

Los Angeles, January 5, 1969



Prabhupāda: This is a song sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. He says, "When that day will come, that I shall sing simply Lord Caitanya's name and there will be shivering on my body?" Gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka-śarīra. Pulaka-śarīra means shivering on the body. When one is factually situated in the transcendental platform, sometimes there are eight kinds of symptoms: crying, talking like a madman, and shivering of the body, dancing without any care for any other men... These symptoms develop automatically. They are not practiced artificially. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is aspiring for that day, not that one has to artificially imitate. That he does not recommend. He says, "When that day will come, so that simply by uttering the name of Lord Caitanya there will be a shivering on my body?" Gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka-śarīra. And hari hari bolite: "And as soon as I shall chant 'Hari Hari,' or 'Hare Kṛṣṇa,' there will be pouring down of tears from my eyes." Hari hari bolite nayane ba'be nīra. Nīra means water. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said that "When that day will come?" We should simply aspire. But if, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, that stage we can reach, these symptoms will come automatically. But Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that it is not possible to reach that stage without being freed from material affection.



*Therefore he says, āra kabe nitāi*-cander, koruṇā hoibe: "When that day will come when Lord Nityānanda's mercy will be bestowed upon me so that...'' Viṣaya chāḍiyā Āra kabe nitāi-cander koruṇā hoibe, saṁsāra-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be. Saṁsāra-bāsanā means the desire for material enjoyment. Saṁsāra-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be: "When my desire for material enjoyment will be insignificant, nonimportant.'' Tuccha. Tuccha means a thing which we calculate no value: "Throw it away.'' Similarly, spiritual advancement is possible when one is convinced that "This material world and material happiness is no value. It cannot give me any real bliss of life.'' This conviction is very much necessary. Saṁsāra-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be. And he also says that "When I shall be free from the desires of material enjoyment, then it will be possible to see the real nature of Vṛndāvana.'' Viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana: "When my mind will be completely purified, uncontaminated from the material contamination, at that time it will be possible for me to see what is Vṛndāvana.'' In other words, one cannot go to Vṛndāvana by force and live there, and he will achieve that transcendental bliss. No. One has to make his mind freed from all material desires. Then one can live at Vṛndāvana and relish its residential benefit. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that. Viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe, śuddha ha'be mana: "When my mind will be freed from the contamination of this material enjoyment and I shall be purified, then it will be possible for me to see Vṛndāvana as it is.'' Otherwise it is not possible.

*And he says again that to go to Vṛndāvana means to understand the transcendental pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. How this will be possible? So he says, rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti. Rūpa, Rūpa Gosvāmī, beginning from Rūpa Gosvāmī down to Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, there were six Gosvāmīs: Rūpa, Sanātana, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa, Jīva Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. So he says, rūpa-raghunātha-pade: "Beginning from Rūpa Gosvāmī down to Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī," pade, "in their lotus feet, at their lotus feet. When I shall be eager to be attached at their lotus feet..." Rūpa-raghunātha-pade, hoibe ākuti. Ākuti, eagerness. What is that eagerness? That means to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa through the guidance of the Gosvāmīs. One should not try to understand Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa by his own effort. That will not help him. As these Gosvāmīs, they have given us direction, just like Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, so one has to follow step after step how to make progress. Then there will be a fortunate day when we shall be able to understand what is the pastimes or loving affairs between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if we take it as ordinary boy and girls reciprocating their loving feelings, then we will misunderstand. Then there will be the production of prakṛta-sahajiyā, victims of Vṛndāvana.

So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is giving us the direction, how one can reach the highest perfectional stage of associating with Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. The first thing is that one should be very much attached to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That will lead us. Because He came to deliver the understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, therefore one should first of all surrender to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By surrendering to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu will be pleased, and by His pleasing, we shall be freed from material desires. And when material desires are no more, then we shall be able to enter Vṛndāvana. And after entering Vṛndāvana, when we are eager to serve the six Gosvāmīs, then we can reach the platform to understand the pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Yes. (end)



680717PU.MON

Purport excerpt to

*Śrī*-Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Prabhu

-

Montreal, July 17, 1968



*Prabhupāda: This is a prayer to Lord Caitanya. The devotee is saying, "O Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, kindly show me your causeless mercy." Śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu dayā karo more. "Because You have come to deliver fallen souls, so You will not find the most fallen soul like me." This is the humble prayer. We should be conscious of our fallen condition and pray to the Lord in that way, that "My dear Lord, somehow or other I am fallen. Now kindly pick me up." The substance of this song is like this. Of course, the language, Sanskrit, you may understand..., you may not understand, but the vibration will act. (end)





681221PU.LA

*Purport to Nitāi*-Pada-Kamala

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Los Angeles, December 21, 1968



*Prabhupāda: Nitāi-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala, je chāyāy jagata jurāy. This is a very nice song sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. He is advising that nitāi-pada, the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda Kamala means lotus feet, er, lotus, and pada means feet. So Nitāi-pada-kamala means the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda. Koṭi-candra-suśītala. It is just a shelter where you will get the soothing moonlight not only of one, but of millions of moons. Just we have to imagine what is the aggregate total value of the soothing shine of millions of moons. Koṭi-candra-suśītala, je chāyāy jagata jurāy. Jagat, this material world, which is progressing towards hell, and there is always a blazing fire, everyone is struggling hard, nobody finds peace. Therefore, if the world wants to have real peace, then it should take shelter under the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda, which is supposed to be cooling like the shining moon, millions in number. Nitāi-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala, je chāyāy jagata jurāy. Jurāy means relief. If you actually want relief from the struggle of existence and if you actually want to extinguish the fire of material pangs, then Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura advises, "Please take shelter of Lord Nityānanda.'' What will be the result of accepting the shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda? He says that heno nitāi bine bhāi: "Unless you take shelter under the shade of lotus feet of Nityānanda,'' rādhā-kṛṣṇa pāite nāi, "it will be very difficult to approach Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.'' Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for approaching Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, to be associated with the Supreme Lord in His sublime pleasure dance. That is the aim of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's advice is "If you actually want to enter into the dancing party of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, then you must take shelter of the lotus feet of Nityānanda."



*Then he says, se sambandha nāhi jā'r. Sambandha means connection or contact. "So anybody who has not contacted a relationship with Nityānanda," se sambandha nāhi jā'r, bṛthā janma gelo tā'r, "then he is supposed to have spoiled his human birth." In other song also Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "Anyone who does not approach Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa through the relationship of Nityānanda, his life is uselessly spoiled.'' Se sambandha nāhi jā'r, bṛthā janma gelo tā'r. Bṛthā means useless, janma means life, tāra means his, and sambandha means relationship. "So anyone who has no relationship with Nityānanda, he is simply spoiling his, the boon of human form of life.'' Why he is spoiling? Se paśu boro durācār. Se means that; paśu, animal; *durācār, dura, misbehaved, mostly misbehaved. Because without our elevation to Kṛṣṇa consciousness through the mercy of Lord Caitanya*-Nityānanda, the life is simply animal propensities. That's all. Sense gratification. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that ordinary animal, he can be tamed, but a human being, when he is animalistic, when he has simply animal propensities, oh, he is horrible. He cannot be tamed. Ordinary cats and dogs, even tiger, can be tamed. But a human being, when he goes out of his way, because human life is meant for being elevated to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if he doesn't take to that, then his higher intelligence will be simply misused for animal propensities, and it is very difficult to tame him.

*The enactment or state laws cannot make a man, a thief, an honest man because he cannot be tamed. His heart is polluted. Every man sees that a person committing criminal offense is punished by the government. And in scriptural injunction there is mention that "If you do this, you will be punished in the hell.'' He has heard from the scripture, and he has practically seen by the punishment of state laws. Still, he is not tamed. He cannot be tamed. So why? Because he hasn't got his relationship with Nityānanda. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, durācāra. Durācāra means very much misbehaved. He cannot be tamed. Sei paśu boro durācār. And what they are doing? Nitāi nā bolilo mukhe. They do not know who is Nityānanda, so never says "Lord Nityānanda,'' or "Lord Caitanya.'' So nitāi nā bolilo mukhe, majilo saṁsāra*-sukhe. Majilo means becomes absorbed, dipped into the so-called material enjoyment. They don't care who is Nityānanda or Caitanya. So nitāi nā bolilo mukhe. Because his life is animalistic, sei paśu boro durācār, very difficult to be tamed, so he is going down, deep into this material existence.

*Vidyā*-kule ki koribe tār. Somebody may say, "Oh, why he is going to hell? He is so much educated, he has got academic qualification, he has got degrees." Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura replies, vidyā-kule ki koribe tār: "If he has no connection with Nityānanda and if he does not come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his vidyā or his so-called academic education, and kula, and birth in high family or great nation, will not protect him because nature's law will act. "Either you are born in a very big family or nation, or either you have got a very advanced academic education, at the time of death your work will be judged and you will get another body according to that work. So vidyā kule ki koribe tār. Why they are doing so, these animals, human animals? Ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pāsariyā: "They have become maddened by a false concept of the bodily life." Ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pāsariyā: "And for this reason they have completely forgotten their eternal relationship with Nityānanda." Ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pāsariyā, asatyere satya kari māni: "Such forgetful persons accept the illusory energy as fact." Asatyere. Asatya means which is not fact. In other words, it is called māyā. Māyā means which has no existence, a temporary illusion only. So such persons who have no contact with Nityānanda, they accept this illusion as fact, this illusory body as fact. Asatyere satya kori māni.

*Then he says, nitāiyer koruṇā habe, braje rādhā*-kṛṣṇa pābe. He says that "If you actually want to approach the association of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, then try to achieve the mercy of Lord Nityānanda. When He will be merciful upon you, then you will be able to approach Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.'' Dharo nitāi-caraṇa duḥkhāni. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura advises us that "You firmly catch the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda.'' Then again he says, nitāiyer caraṇa satya. One may not misunderstand that as he has caught hold of this māyā, similarly, the lotus feet of Nityānanda may also be something like that māyā, illusion. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura confirms that nitāiyer caraṇa satya: "The lotus feet of Nityānanda is not illusion; *it is transcendental fact, satya.'' Nitāiyer caraṇa satya, tāṅhāra sevaka nitya: "And eveyone who is engaged in the transcendental loving service of Nityānanda he is also transcendental.'' If anyone is engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately he achieves his transcendental position, spiritual platform. And spiritual platform means eternal, blissful. So anyone who engages himself in the service of Nityānanda, it is supposed that he is also immediately in his eternal position. Nitāiyer caraṇa satya, tāṅhāra sevaka nitya, nitāi*-pada sadā koro āśa. Therefore he advises that "You always hope to catch the lotus feet of Nityānanda."



Narottama boro duḥkhī. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, the ācārya, he is taking for himself that "I am very unhappy." He is representing ourselves. He is liberated, but representing ourself. "My dear Lord, I am very unhappy." Nitāi more koro sukhī: "So I am praying Lord Nityānanda to make me happy." Rākho rāṅgā caraṇera pāśa: "Please keep me in some corner of your red lotus feet." (end)



681225pu.la

Purport to Prayers by King Kulaśekhara

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Los Angeles, December 25, 1968



*(This) verse was sung by King Kulaśekhara, a great king, and, at the same time, a great devotee of the Lord. His songs are recorded in the book known as Mukunda*-mālā-stotra. That is very famous book. It is sung by many devotees. So it does not matter whether a man is king, or a poor mendicant. Everyone has the facility to become the greatest devotee of the Lord. So he's praying "My dear Kṛṣṇa, Your feet is lotus.'' Generally we say "Lotus feet". But where the lotus flower is there, the white swans, they come to the lotus flower and try to play with the stem. They sport, going down the water, and be entangled with the stem of that lotus flower. That is their sporting. So King Kulaśekhara is praying that "Let the swan of my mind be immediately entered into the network of the stem of Your lotus feet.'' So that means he wants to engage his mind on the lotus feet of the Lord immediately. There is no question of delaying. He says that "Now I am in sound mind. If I think that I shall think of Your lotus feet at the time of death, there is no certainty. Because, at the time of death, the whole body becomes dislocated. The whole function becomes dismantled."

The body's supposed to be conducted by three elements, kapha pitta vāyu, cold, and bile, and air. So when these three elements work simultaneously, there is no disease in the body, but, as soon as there is overlapping disruption of these three elements, the body becomes diseased. And when it is not possible to bring them again in their regulative principle, a man dies. That is the verdict of Āyurveda śāstra. So death takes place when these three elements become overlapped with one another. And the symptom is that there is a sound on the throat which is called: garhh, garhh. That means the patient cannot speak. The throat is choked up and he becomes suffocated and dies. So this is the last stage, symptom of his body.

*So King Kulaśekhara says that "I cannot wait up to that time when everything will be topsy*-turvied. Now my mind is sound. Let me enter immediately in the stem of your lotus feet.'' That means he's praying: "Let me die in the sound condition of my life so that I can think of your lotus feet.'' In other words, he's giving us lessons that if we do not practice to engage our mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa when our mind is sound, how it is possible to think of Him at the time of death? (end)



681226P2.LA

Spelling of Prayers to the Six Gosvāmīs

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Los Angeles, December 26, 1968



*Prabhupāda: K-r-i-s-h-n-o-t, kṛṣṇot. Then next word, kīrtana, k-i-r-t-a-n-a. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna, g-a-n-a. This "a" is strong "a", strong "a." Gāna. Strong "a" means "a" with hyphen. So I shall say, "strong 'a'." Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna, g-strong a-n-a, gāna. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana, n-a-r-t-a-n-a. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-para, p-a-r-a. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, premam, p-r-e-m-strong a-m-r-i-t-a, premāmṛtam, a-m-b-h-o, ambho, nidhī, n-i-d-h-i-h. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. (sings) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. The meaning: kṛṣṇotkīrtena, "loudly chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa," kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna, "in musical sound, in songs, with music," kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana, nartana means "dancing, chanting and dancing," parau, "always engaged," kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī, "and dipped into the ocean of ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa." (sings) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī. Next line: dhīra, d-h-i-r-a, strong a, dhīra. Dhīra, d-h-i-r-a. One is dhīra, another is dhīra. Dhīrādhīra-jana, j-a-n-a, jana. Dhīrādhīra-jana. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. P-r-i-y-a-u. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priyakarau, p-r-i-y-a-k-a-r-a-u, priyakarau. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priyakarau nirmatsarau, n-i-r-m-a-t-s-a-r-o-u, nirmatsarau, pūjitau, p-u-j-a-t-o-u. So second line is dhīra, "those who are gentle, sober," and adhīra... Adhīra means "those who are not gentle, ruffians." So they were, by chanting these songs of kīrtana, where dhīrādhīra, "both to the gentle and to the ruffians," priyau, "dear, equally dear and popular to both classes of men," not that they were simply popular to the gentle class, but even the ruffian class also loved them. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priyakarau. Priya-karau means they were doing things which is very pleasant to everyone. Nirmatsarau. Nirmatsarau means without any enviousness, no discrimination, that "Kṛṣṇotkīrtana or the songs, saṅkīrtana, shall be given to the gentle class of men, not to the ruffians." No. They were equally kind and merciful, without any enviousness. Priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau. Pūjitau means worshipable, adored by everyone. (sings) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau. Next line: śrī-caitanya, s-r-i c-a-i-t-a-n-y-a, śrī caitanya, kṛpā-bharau, k-r-i-p-a-b-h-a-r-o-u, kṛpā-bharau, śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau, bhuvi, b-h-u-v-i, bhuvi, bhuvau, b-h-u-v-o-u, bhuvi bhuvau. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo. Vande, v-a-n-d-e, r-u-p-a, rūpa, sanātanau, s-a-n-a-t-a-n-o-u, sanātanau. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau. R-a-g-u-h-y-u-g-o-u. Raghu-agau. Vande-rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva, s-r*-i j-i-v-a, śrī-jīva, gopālakau, g-o-p-a-l-a-k-o-u. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāva-hantārakau, b-h-a-r-a-b-a, hantārakau, h-a-n-t-a-r-a-k-o-u. (sings) Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāva-hantārakau vande rūpa-santanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. So śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau: "They were so kind and merciful because they actually received the blessings and mercy of Lord Caitanya." Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi. Bhuvi means "on this world, on this earth." And bhuvo. Bhuvo means "on this earth," bhuvo, and bhuvi, "they became." Bhuvi bhuvo, bhārāva-hantārakau. Bhara, b-h-a-r-a, bhara means burden. Hantārakau, "just to take out the burdens." When people become too much sinful, the earth becomes overburdened, and just to make it lighter... If it becomes too much heavy, then it will fall down. So these great souls, they come to make it lighter. Bhārāva-hantārakau, vande rūpa. "Oh, you are so kind." So therefore vande: "I offer my respectful obeisances," rūpa, lord..., not lord. Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī and two Raghunātha Gosvāmīs. There are two Raghunāthas. And Jīva Gosvāmī and Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. Vande-rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. (sings)



*kṛṣṇot*-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

*dhīrādhīra*-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

*śrī*-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāva-hantārakau

*vande rūpa*-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau



*Kṛṣṇotkīrtana*-gāna-nartana-parau. (end)



681226PU.LA

Purport & Explanation to Hari Hari Biphale

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Los Angeles, December 26, 1968



Pradyumna: Hari hari biphale, janama...



*Prabhupāda: Goṅāinu. G*-o-y-a-i-n-u. [Bengali phonetic spelling sometimes does not match the BBT standard diacritics used for Bengali. Ed. note]



Pradyumna: Gowanu.



Prabhupāda: Goṅāinu.



Pradyumna: Goṅāinu.



Prabhupāda: Biphale, janama goṅāinu. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. Goṅāinu.



Pradyumna: Goṅāinu. Goṅāinu?



Prabhupāda: Yes. So shall I give the meaning also?



Pradyumna: Afterwards, I guess. Oh, this is the first verse? Hari hari biphale, janama goṅāinu.



*Prabhupāda: Janama goṅāinu. This is first line. Hari hari biphale, janama goṅāinu. The next line: manuṣya*-janama pāiyā. M-a-n-u-s-y-a.



Pradyumna: Manuṣya.



*Prabhupāda: Janama. J*-a-n-a-m-a. Pāiyā, p-a-i-y-a.



Pradyumna: Pāiyā.



*Prabhupāda: Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā. Next line. R-a-d-h-a, Rādhā, Kṛṣṇa, K-r-i-s-h-n-a, nā bhajiyā, n-a, nā, bhajiyā, b-h-a-j-i-a, nā bhajiyā. Next line, jāniyā, j-a-n-i-a, jāniyā.



*Pradyumna: J*-a?



*Prabhupāda: N*-i-a. Śuniyā, s-u-n-i-a. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa, b-i-s-a, biṣa.



Pradyumna: Biṣa?



*Prabhupāda: B*-i-s-a. Khāinu, k-h-a-i-n-u.



hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu

*manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,

jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu



*The meaning is, Hari Hari, "My Lord,'' biphale, "uselessly,'' janama, "life,'' goṅāinu, "spent up. I have uselessly spent up my life.'' Why? Because manuṣya-janama pāiyā, "I got this human form of life,'' manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, "but I did not engage myself in the loving transcendental service of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.'' Rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu: "Willingly, purposefully, I have drunk poison.'' Hari hari biphale, janama goṅāinu.



Pradyumna: Tell it for each word. Jāniyā means?



Prabhupāda: Jāniyā means knowingly, and śuniyā means hearing.



Pradyumna: Hearing?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Two kinds of knowledge are there. You can practically understand by experiment. This is called jāniyā. And another knowledge is by hearing from authoritative source. That is also knowledge. Jāniyā śuniyā "By hearing process and by experimental knowledge, in both ways, I know that this human form of life is meant for engaging in the loving service of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, but I did not do that. That means purposefully I have drunk poison. I have committed suicide.'' Then golokera prema*-dhana, g-o-l-e... No. G-o-l-o-k-e-r-a, golokera. Prema,



*p*-r-e-m-a, prema. Dhana, d-h-a-n-a. Golokera prema-dhana. That means: "This chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, is imported from the transcendental abode of Goloka." Hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. "This chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, this is not material vibration. This sound is..." What is called? Captured? Just like we capture sound. The sound is in the air. So this sound... There are different layers of air, but this sound is in the highest layer, in the transcendental, spiritual layer, beyond this material world. From that sound it is captured. It requires strong machine to capture that sound. Golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana.

*Pradyumna: Hari*-nāma-saṅ...



*Prabhupāda: H*-a-r-i-n-a-m-a, hari-nāma, saṅkīrtana, s-a-n-k-i-r-t-a-n-a. Hari-nāma saṅkīrtana. Rati nā janmila. R-a-t-i, n-a, nā, janmila, j-a-n-m-i-l-a. Rati nā janmila kena, k-e-n-a, tāi, t-a-i. "It is so sublime, transcendental, and it is imported from the transcendental world, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Unfortunately, I do not know why I did not get any attachment for such nice thing." Rati nā janmila kene tāi. Tāi means "in that." Biṣaya biṣānale. B-i-s-a-y-a, biṣaya. Biṣa, b-i-s-a, biṣa, nale, n-a-l-e.



Pradyumna: Biṣa?



*Prabhupāda: Biṣa, b*-i-s-a, nale, n-a-l-e. Biṣānale. The blazing fire of poison. The material enjoyment is blazing fire of poison. "Just like a person, if he is put into the blazing fire, he is burned into ashes, similarly, simply by thinking, 'How I shall enjoy this? How I shall enjoy this materially?' This is just like blazing fire of poison. So I am suffering always." Biṣaya biṣānale dibā-niśi hiyā jvale. Dibā-niśi, d-i-b-a, dibā-niśi. Dibā means day, and niśi, niśi means night. "So day and night I am in this blazing fire."



Pradyumna: Neśi? How do you spell that?



*Prabhupāda: Niśi, n*-i-s-i.



*Pradyumna: Dibā n*-i-s-i, dibā-niśi.



*Prabhupāda: Hiyā, h*-i-a, hiyā, jvale, j-a..., j-v-a-l-e.



*Pradyumna: J*-v-e-l-e.



*Prabhupāda: J-v-a-l-e. Dibā-niśi hiyā jvale: "The heart is burning always, day and night." Tarivare. T-a-r*-i v-a-r-e, tarivare. Tarivare means "to get out of it."



Pradyumna: Can you spell that again?



*Prabhupāda: Tarivare? T-a-r*-i v-a-r-e.



Pradyumna: Vire?



*Prabhupāda: R*-e, tarivare.



Pradyumna: Tarivare.



*Prabhupāda: Nā kainu. N*-a, nā, kainu, k-a-i-n-u, nā kainu, upāya, u-p-a-y-a, upāya. Tarivare means "to get out of it,'' nā kainu, "did not do.'' Nā means "not,'' kainu, "did not do.'' Nā kainu upāya. Upāya means "means.'' That means "If anyone wants to get out of this blazing fire of poison of material enjoyment, then he has to take to this hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, this chanting. That is the only method. So I did not do that. I engaged myself in this viṣaya viṣānale, this material enjoyment. Therefore my life has been uselessly spoiled. Tarivare nā kainu upāya. The next line, vrajendra-nandana yei. V-r-a-j-e-n-d-r-a, vrajendra, nandana, n-a-n-d-a-n-a, yei, y-a-i.



Pradyumna: Jia.



*Prabhupāda: Jai. Vrajendranandana yei, śacī*-suta, s-a-c-h-i-s-u-t-a, śacī-suta, haila, h-a-i-l-a, haila, sei, s-a-i, sei. Vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei, balarāma haila nitāi. B-al-a-r-a-m-a, balarāma, haila, h-i, h-a-i-l-a. Haila, h-a-i-l-a, nitāi, n-i-t-a-i, haila nitāi. Balarāma haila nitāi. And this means... Vrajendra-nandana yei: "The Supreme Personality who appeared as the son of King Nanda, the same Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa has now appeared as the son of mother Śacī." And Balarāma, b-a-l-a-r-a-m-a; haila, haila means "has become; *" Nitāi, "Lord Nityānanda." "Formerly the Personality of Godhead who was known as Balarāma has now become Lord Nityānanda." So what is their business? Pāpī tāpī yata chilo. P*-a-p-i, t-a-p-i, pāpī tāpī, yata, y-a-t-a, yata chilo, c-h-h-i-l-a.



*Pradyumna: C*-h-h-i-l-a?



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari*-nāme, uddhārilo. H-a-r-i, hari, nāme, n-a-m-e, nāme, uddhārilo, u-d-d-h-a-r-i-l-a. That means "These two Personality of Godhead, they, simply by distributing the transcendental chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, has reclaimed all conditioned and sinful souls." Pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. "And the concrete example for this activity is Jagāi and Mādhāi, the two brothers known by Jagāi-Mādhāi.'' J-a-g-a-i, Jagāi and Mādhāi, M-a-d-h-a-i. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari nāme uddharilo, tā'ra sākṣī, tā'ra sākṣī. T-a-r, sākṣī, s-a-k-s-h-i, sākṣī, jagāi and mādhāi. And then last verse is hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, h-a-h-a, hā hā, prabhu, p-r-a-b-h-u, prabhu, nanda-suta, n-a-n-d-a-s-u-t-a. "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, son of King Nanda..." Vṛṣabhānu-sutā-yuta. V-r-i-s-a-b-h-a-n-u, vṛṣabhānu, sutā, s-u-t...



*Pradyumna: V*-s... Vṛṣa?



*Prabhupāda: Vṛṣabhānu, b*-h-a-n-u.



*Pradyumna: B*-h-a-n-u.



*Prabhupāda: Vṛṣabhānu*-sutā, s-u-t-a. Sutā-yuta, y-u-t-a. That means "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of King Nanda, You are now along with Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu. So both of you are here. So I am Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura." Narottama, N-a-r-a-t-t-a-m-a, Narottama, dāsa, d-a-s-a, dāsa, kahe, k-a-h-e. "I am Narottama dāsa. I am placing my appeal unto You." Narottama dāsa ka..., nā theliho. N-a, theliho, t-h-e-l-i-a. Nā theliho. Rāṅgā, r-a-n-g-a, rāṅgā, pāye, p-a-y-e. Nā theliho rāṅgā pāye. Tumi binā, t-u-m-i, tumi, vinā, v-i-n-a.



*Pradyumna: T*-u-m-e?



*Prabhupāda: T*-u-m-e, tumi, vinā, v-i-n-a, ke, k-e, āche, a-c-h-h-e, āche, ke āche.



*Pradyumna: C*-h-...



*Prabhupāda: H*-e.



*Pradyumna: A*-s-c-h...



*Prabhupāda: No. A*-c-h-h-e. Āmār, a-m-a-r. "So who else is there beyond yourself? So don't kick me out by Your lotus feet. Please accept me because I have no other shelter than Yourself." Is that...? (end)





681228PU.LA

Purport Excerpt to Śrī Śrī Śikṣāṣṭakam

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Los Angeles, December 28, 1968



Prabhupāda: (chants first four verses) Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed His disciples to write books on the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A task which those who follow Him have continued to carry out down to the present day. The elaboration and exposition on the philosophy taught by Lord Caitanya are in fact the most voluminous, exacting, and consistent, due to the unbreakable system of disciplic succession of any religious culture in the world. Yet Lord Caitanya in His youth widely renowned as a scholar Himself, left us only eight verses called Śikṣāṣṭaka.



*Glories to the śrī*-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years together. Thus the fire of conditioned life, of repeated birth and death is extinguished. This saṅkīrtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge, it increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it helps to have a taste of the full nectar for which we are always anxious. Second verse. Oh my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction upon the living beings and therefore You have hundreds and millions of names like Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, etc. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies and there is no hard and fast rule for chanting these holy names. Oh my Lord, You have so kindly made approach to You easy by Your holy names, but unfortunate as I am, I have no attraction for them. Three. One can chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking himself lower than the straw in the street, more tolerant than the tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and ready to offer all respects to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly. (end)





681229PU.LA

Purport to Gaurāṅga Bolite Habe

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Los Angeles, December 29, 1968



*Prabhupāda: This song was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a great devotee-ācārya in the disciplic succession of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Sampradāya. Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Sampradāya means the disciplic succession who are coming down from Lord Caitanya. So this Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has written many songs, and it is recognized as a authority by all the Vaiṣṇavas. He has sung the songs in simple Bengali language, but the purport and the deep meaning of the song is very significant. He says: gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka-śarīra. This is the perfection of chanting, that as soon as we chant or take the name of Lord Gaurāṅga, who initiated the Saṅkīrtana Movement, at once there will be a shivering in the body. So it is not to be imitated. But Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is recommending when that opportune moment will come to us, that as soon as we shall chant Lord Gaurāṅga's name, there will shivering in the body. And, after the shivering, hari hari bolite nayane ba'be nīr, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa there will be tears in the eyes. Then again he says āra kabe nitāicand koruṇā karibe. We are all asking about the mercy of Lord Nityānanda. Nityānanda is supposed to be the original spiritual master. So we have to approach Gaurāṅga, or Lord Caitanya, through the mercy of Lord Nityānanda. So what is the symptom of a person who has achieved the causeless mercy of Lord Nityānanda? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that one who has actually received the causeless mercy of Nityānanda, he has no more any material desire. That is the symptom. Āra kabe nitāicand koruṇā karibe saṁsāra*-vāsanā mora kabe tuccha. Saṁsāra-vāsanā means desire for material enjoyment, when it will become very insignificant. Of course, so long we have got this body we have to accept so many things, material. But not in the spirit of enjoyment, but to keep up the body and soul together. So...



*And he says further: rūpa-raguṇatha-pade haibe ākuti. When I shall be very much eager to study the books left by the Six Gosvāmīs. Ākuti means eagerness. One Because Rūpa Gosvāmī is the father of this devotional service. He has written that book, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. In that book there is nice direction. Of course, in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and other books we have given the summary of those direction in our book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So one has to learn the conjugal loving affairs of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa through the teachings of these Six Gosvāmīs. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura giving us the direction that you do not try to understand the conjugal love of Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa by your own endeavor. You should try to understand by the direction of the Gosvāmīs. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings [break] ...Narottama

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti

*kabe hāma bujhaba śrī yugala*-pīriti



*Yugala*-pīriti means conjugal love. And another he sings that viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana. This mind, so, so, so long the mind is too much absorbed in materialistic thought, he cannot enter into the kingdom of Vṛndāvana. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says: viṣaya śuddha kabe śuddha ha'be mana. When my, my mind will be completely purified, being freed from material anxieties and desires. Then I shall be able to understand what is Vṛndāvana, what is conjugal love of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and then my spiritual life will be successful. (end)



681231PU.LA

Spelling of Ārati Song

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Los Angeles, December 31, 1968



Pradyumna: Jāhnave. Next one.



Prabhupāda: Jāhnave. Jāhnavī. Jāhnavī means the Ganges.



Pradyumna: Taṭa.



Prabhupāda: Taṭa, bank.



Pradyumna: Vane.



Prabhupāda: Of the forest.



*Pradyumna: Jaga*-jana.



Prabhupāda: Jaga means of the world, and jana means people.



Pradyumna: Mana.



Prabhupāda: Mana means mind, heart.



Pradyumna: Lobhā.



*Prabhupāda: Attractive. This means "The ārātrika ceremony which is going on on the bank of the Ganges to receive Lord Caitanya is so beautiful that it is attractive to the people of the world, all people of the world." Jaga*-jana-mana-lobhā. Mana... "Attractive to the mind of all people of the world."



Pradyumna: Kibā.



Prabhupāda: Kibā again, the same thing, "hello."



Pradyumna: Hello. Bosiyāchen



Prabhupāda: Bosiyāchen, is seated.



Pradyumna: Is seated. Gauracand is Lord Caitanya.



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: Ratna?



Prabhupāda: Ratna means jewels.



Pradyumna: Siṁhāsane.



Prabhupāda: On the throne.



Pradyumna: "Come see Lord Caitanya seated on the jeweled throne"?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: Ārati koren.



*Prabhupāda: Ārati means the arati, reception. Koren, doing. Brahma, Lord Brahma. Ādi, headed by. Deva*-gaṇe, all the demigods. that means "To offer ārati reception to Lord Caitanya, all the demigods have come down, headed by Lord Brahma." Ārati koren brahmā-ādi deva-gaṇe.



Pradyumna: Kibā, hello. Dakṣine?



Prabhupāda: Dakṣine, on the right side.



Pradyumna: Nitai.



Prabhupāda: Lord Nityānanda.



Pradyumna: Cand? Cand.



Prabhupāda: Cand, Nitāicand. His name, Nityānanda's, means Nitāicand. Yes.



Pradyumna: Bāme.



Prabhupāda: Bāme, on the left side. This is Nityānanda on the right side, and that is Gadādhara on the left side.



Pradyumna: Nikaṭe.



Prabhupāda: Nikaṭe, near by.



Pradyumna: Advaita Prabhu.



Prabhupāda: Here is Advaita Prabhu.



Pradyumna: Śrīvāsa.



Prabhupāda: Śrīvāsa, there, another Lord's devotee. Śrīvāsa.



Pradyumna: Chaterjra.



*Prabhupāda: Chatra*-dhara. Chatra-dhara means he is bearing the umbrella.



Pradyumna: Śrīvāsa is?



*Prabhupāda: Śrīvāsa, you know? Śrīvāsadi*-gaura-bhakta. He is the chief devotee of Lord Caitanya. Śrīvāsa. He is Śrīvāsa.



Pradyumna: So it says, "Nearby, Advaita Prabhu and Śrīvāsa are bearing an umbrella."



Prabhupāda: That means Advaita Prabhu is nearby, and Śrīvāsa is also nearby, and Śrīvāsa is bearing the umbrella on the head of Lord Caitanya.



Pradyumna: Śaṅkha. Kibā śaṅkha.



Prabhupāda: Śaṅkha. Śaṅkha means the conchshell.



Pradyumna: Conchshell?



Prabhupāda: Yes.



Pradyumna: Bāje.



Prabhupāda: Bāje. Śaṅkha bāje means bugling, or what is it. Sound, make sound. What do you call?



Pradyumna: Trumpet? Bugle or trumpet?



Prabhupāda: Yes. trumpeting. Trumpeting. The conchshell.



Pradyumna: Sounding. It's called. You sound.



Prabhupāda: Sounding, yes. Sounding the conchshell. Śaṅkha bāje. Bāje means sounding. Yes.



Pradyumna: Ghaṇṭā.



Prabhupāda: Ghaṇṭā, bells. Different kinds of bells are also ringing.



Pradyumna: Bāje, sounding, ringing.



Prabhupāda: Ringing.



Pradyumna: Bāje karatāla.



Prabhupāda: Karatāla, cymbal, this is also being sounded, all together.



Pradyumna: Madhura mṛdaṅga.



Prabhupāda: And the madhura, with sweet mṛdaṅga. You know, mṛdaṅga.



Pradyumna: Madhura means street?



Prabhupāda: Sweet.



Pradyumna: Sweet.



Prabhupāda: Yes. The mṛdaṅga vibration is very sweet.



Pradyumna: Bāje, sounding. Śunitai?



Prabhupāda: Śunite, to hear.



Pradyumna: Rasāla.



Prabhupāda: Rasāla, very relishable. All these sounds together, when vibrated, they are very relishable to hear. So make typed copies nicely, with diacritic mark, hard "a," and explain. And the sound is there, repeat. If you practice two, three days, it will be all right. Everyone will be able to sing, and it will be very nice.



Pradyumna: It's very beautiful.



*Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything will come out nice, beautiful. (break*-Prabhupāda sings mahāmantra in morning tune, also mixing the words) Like that. I asked you not to sit down before Deity like that. You should always sit very respectfully. This is to be practiced. So these words can be mixed in a different way to make the sound palatable. That's all. Just repeat. The Hare Kṛṣṇa is there, but in a different way. That's all. (end)





690102PU.LA

*Purport to Śrī-Śrī*-Gurv-aṣṭakam

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Los Angeles, January 2, 1969



Prabhupāda:



*saṁsāra*-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

*trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam

*prāptasya kalyāṇa*-guṇārṇavasya

*vande guroḥ śrī*-caraṇāravindam **



This song is offering obeisances particularly to the spiritual master, and the symptoms of the spiritual master are described in this prayer. The spiritual master has two kind of symptoms in his activities. One kind is called constant, and other kind is called temporary. So the first verse says that the constant symptom of the spiritual master is that he can deliver his disciples from the blazing fire of this material existence. That is the eternal qualification of spiritual master. Trāṇāya means for deliverance, and kāruṇya means compassionate, very merciful. The spiritual master comes to the deliverance of the fallen souls out of his causeless mercy. Nobody has any business for the sufferings of others. The best example is Lord Jesus Christ, that he suffered for others. And it is the principle in the Bible that he accepted all the sins of others. This is the sign of spiritual master, that he voluntarily accepts the sinful activities of others and delivers them. That is the qualification of spiritual master. How it is? Just like ghanāghanatvam. Ghanāghanatvam means dense cloud in the sky. The first example has been said, that this material existence is just like forest blazing fire. Now, to extinguish the forest blazing fire, there is no use of sending fire brigade. The fire brigade cannot approach the forest fire; *neither any man can go there to extinguish the fire. One has to depend completely on the mercy of nature. That means one has to completely depend on the cloud in the sky. Otherwise, there is no question of pouring water on that blazing fire. So the example is very appropriate. As man*-made engine or fire brigade is unable to extinguish the forest blazing fire, similarly, the material existentional blazing fire cannot be extinguished by any man-made method.



*They are planning to be very comfortable in this material existence, but they are still more being confused and failure. That peace movement, that United Nation movement, everything is failure. Why? These miseries of this material existence cannot be stopped by any material means. One has to take shelter of spiritual means. Just like the blazing fire in the forest has to wait for the cloud in the sky, similarly, one has to wait for the merciful cloud as the spiritual master. That is described. Trāṇāya kāruṇya*-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya kalyāṇa-guṇārṇavasya **. So the spiritual master is not self-made. It is not that if anyone comes before you and bluffs you that "I have attained spiritual perfection, and I have realized something by some method.'' No. The spiritual master, bona fide spiritual, means he has to receive the power from authority. Otherwise it is useless. No It is not that one can become spiritual master overnight. He has to take the power from his spiritual master. Therefore it is called prāptasya. Prāptasya means one who has obtained, one who has got the merciful blessings of his spiritual master.

*We should always remember that the spiritual master is in the disciplic succession. The original spiritual master is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He blesses his next disciple, just like Brahmā. Brahmā blesses his next disciple, just like Nārada. Nārada blesses his next disciple, just like Vyāsa. Vyāsa blesses his next disciple, Mādhvācārya. Similarly, the blessing is coming. Just like royal succession*-the throne is inherited by disciplic or hereditary succession-similarly, this power from the Supreme Personality of Godhead has to receive. Nobody can preach, nobody can become a spiritual master, without obtaining power from the right source. Therefore the very word, it is stated here, prāptasya. Prāptasya means "one who has obtained." Prāptasya kalyāṇa. What he has obtained? Kalyāṇa. Kalyāṇa means auspicity. He has received something which is auspicious for all the human kind. Prāptasya kalyāṇa-guṇārṇavasya. Here is another example. Guṇārnava. Arṇava means ocean, and guṇa means spiritual qualities. Just like the same example is going on. It is very nice poetry. There is nice rhethorics and metaphor. The example is set, blazing fire, and it is to be extinguished with the cloud. And wherefrom the cloud comes? Similarly, wherefrom the spiritual master receives the mercy? The cloud receives his potency from the ocean. Therefore the spiritual master also receives his power from the ocean of spiritual quality, that is, from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So prāptasya kalyāṇa-guṇārṇavasya. Such kind of spiritual master, one has to accept, and vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam, and one has to offer his respectful obeisances to such authorized spiritual master. (end)



690104PU.LA

Purport to Parama Koruṇa

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Los Angeles, January 4, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Parama koruṇa, pahū dui jana, nitāi gauracandra. This is a song by Locana dāsa Ṭhākura, a great devotee and ācārya of the Gauḍīya*-sampradāya. He is declaring that pahū dui jana. Pahū means lords. Dui jana means two. Who are the two lords? Nitai Gauracandra. One is Lord Nitāi, Nityānanda; *another is Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he says that "These two Lords are very merciful.'' Parama koruṇa, pahū dui jana. Parama koruṇa means very merciful. Nitai Gauracandra. Saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi. Avatāra means incarnation, and saba means all. "They are the essence of all incarnations.'' Saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi, kevala ānanda*-kanda: "And the specific significance of these incarnations is that to prosecute their ways of self-realization is simply joyful,'' ānanda-kanda. They introduced chanting and dancing. No other incarnation There are many incarnation, just like Lord Rāma. Even Kṛṣṇa, He taught Bhagavad-gītā. That requires knowledge, understanding. But here Lord Caitanya, Nityānanda, introduced some process which is simply joyful: simply chant and dance. Kevala ānanda-kanda. Saba avatāra, sāra śiromaṇi, kevala ānanda-kanda.



Therefore he requests everyone, bhajo bhajo bhāi, caitanya nitāi: "My dear brothers, I request you. Just you worship Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda.'' Sudṛḍha biśwāsa kori': "With firm conviction and faith.'' Don't think that this chanting and dancing will not lead you to the desired goal. It will because there is assurance of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu that you will get all perfection by this process. Therefore Locana dāsa Ṭhākura says that "You must have firm faith and conviction.'' It will act. Bhajo bhajo bhāi, caitanya nitāi, sudṛḍha. Sudṛḍha means firm. Biśwāsa kori', with faith and conviction. But what is the process? The process is viṣaya chāḍiyā, se rase majiyā. If you want to be Kṛṣṇa conscious under that process, then you have to give up your engagement of sense gratification. That is the only restriction. You cannot do that. Then it will be very nice. If you give up sense gratification and come to this stage, then it is sure that you will reach to the desired goal. Viṣaya chāḍiya, se rase majiyā, mukhe bolo hari hari: "And you have to simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, 'Hari Hari,' that's all, without any motive of sense gratification.''



*Dekho dekho bhāi, tri*-bhuvane nāi. He says, "My dear brothers, you just try and examine that within these three worlds there is nobody like Lord Caitanya or Nityānanda Prabhu.'' Because, paśu pākhī jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare: "Their mercy and qualities are so great that even birds and beasts, they are crying, what to speak of human being?'' Actually, when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu passed through the forest of Jhārigrāma, the tigers, the elephants, the snake, the deer, all joined Him in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is so nice. Anyone can join. Animals can join, what to speak of human being? Of course, it is not possible for ordinary man to enthuse animals to chant, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu did it actually. So even if we cannot enthuse animals, we can enthuse at least human being to this path of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting. Paśu pākhī jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare. And it is so nice that even the most stonehearted men will be melted. Pāṣāṇa vidare. Pāṣāṇa means stone, and vidare. Pāṣāṇa, even stone, will melt. It is so nice. But he regrets that, viṣaya majiyā: "Being entrapped by sense gratification...'' Viṣaya majiyā, rohili bhuliyā. He's addressing himself, "My dear mind, you are entrapped in the sense gratification process and you have no attraction for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.''

*Viṣaya bhuliyā, rohili majiyā, se pade nahilo āśa: "You have no attraction for the lotus feet of Caitanya*-Nityānanda. So what can I say? It is only...'' Āpana karama, bhuñjāya śamana: "I can simply think of my misfortune only that Yamaraja, the superintendent of death, he is punishing me in this way, that he is not allowing me to be attracted to this movement.'' This is the statement of Kahoye locana-dāsa: "This is the statement of Locana dāsa Ṭhākura.'' (end)



690106PU.LA

Purport to Gaurāṇgera Duṭi Pada

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Los Angeles, January 6, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Gaurāṅgera duṭi pada, yāra dhana sampada, sei jāne bhakati*-rasa-sāra. This is another song composed by Narottama das Ṭhākura, and he says that "One who has accepted the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya, in other words, one who has the only asset of possession, the two feet of Lord Caitanya, such person is supposed to know what is the essence of devotional service." Sei jāne bhakati-rasa-sāra. What is the purport of devotional service, or what is the humor of devotional service, can be understood by a person who has accepted Lord Caitanya's lotus feet as everything. The idea is that actually Lord Caitanya, He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, and He is teaching devotional sevvice to the living entities personally. Directly. Therefore the modes of devotional service, as taught by Lord Caitanya, is the most perfect. There cannot be any doubt. The expert, or the master, is teaching the servant how to work. If a... If somebody is master of some engineering work and he is personally teaching some assistant, that teaching, instruction, is most perfect. Similarly, Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, in the role of a devotee, is teaching devotional service. Therefore the path chalked out by Lord Kṛṣṇa is the most feasible way for perfection to devotional service. Sei jāne bhakati rasa sāra. Sāra means essence.



*And then he says, gaurāṅgera madhuri*-līlā, yāra karṇe praveśilā. Now he comes to the pastimes of Lord Caitanya. He says that "Lord Caitanya's pastimes are also as much transcendental as Lord Kṛṣṇa's." As in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that anyone who can simply understand the transcendental appearance, disappearance, activities, work of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately becomes eligible to enter into the kingdom of God. Simply by understanding the pastimes and the work, transcendental activities of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, one who enters into the pastimes of Lord Caitanya, he immediately becomes freed from all contamination of the heart. Gaurāṅgera madhuri-līlā, yāra karṇe praveśilā. Karṇe praveśilā means simply one has to receive the message of Lord Caitanya. Karṇe means in the ear. To give the message a submissive aural reception. Then immediately one's heart becomes freed from all material contamination.

*Then he says: yei gaurāṅgera nāma laya, tāra haya premodaya. Now, the devotees are concerned how to develop love of Godhead. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura recommends that anyone who simply chants śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda...'' Gaurāṅga means with all this paraphernalia. As soon as we speak of gaurāṅga, we should mean the five: Lord Nityānanda, Advaita, Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsa. All together. So yei gaurāṅgera nāma laya, anyone who chants, immediately he will develop love of Godhead. Yei gaurāṅgera nāma laya, tara haya premodaya, tāre mui jaya bole hari. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says "I offer him all congratulation.'' Because it is certain that he has developed love of Godhead. Then he says, gaurāṅga-guṇete jhure, nitya-līlā tāre sphure. Anyone, if he cries by simply by hearing the transcendental qualities of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he at once understands what is the loving affairs between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.

*Nitya-līlā means the pastimes, or the loving exchange, affairs between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, that is eternal. That is not temporary. We should not think that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa pastimes, loving affairs, is just like the business of a, of a young boy or girl, as we see in this material world. Such loving affairs is not at all loving affairs. They are lusty affairs, and they are not eternal. Therefore they break. Today I am in love with somebody and next day it breaks. But Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa līlā is not like that. It is eternal. Therefore that is transcendental and this is temporary. So simply one who is absorbed in the pastimes of Lord Caitanya, he can immediately understand what is the actual position of the loving affairs of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Nitya-līlā tāre sphure. Sei yaya rādhā-mādhava, sei yaya vrajendra-suta pāśa. And simply by doing that, he becomes eligible to enter into the abode of Kṛṣṇa. Vrajendra-suta. Vrajendra-suta means the son of Nanda Mahārāja in Vṛndāvana. He's sure to go to associate with Kṛṣṇa in his next birth.

*Gaurāṅgera saṅge*-gaṇe, nitya-siddha boli māne. Anyone who has understood that the associates of Lord Caitanya, they are not ordinary conditioned souls... They are liberated souls. Nitya-siddha bole māni. There are three kinds of devotees. One is called sādhana-siddha. Sadhana-siddha means by following the regulative principles of devotional service, if one becomes perfect, he's called sādhana-siddha. Another devotee is called kṛpā-siddha. Kṛpā-siddha means even if he has not followed strictly all the regulative principle, still, by the mercy of ācārya or a devotee, or by Kṛṣṇa, he is elevated to the perfectional stage. That is specially. And another devotee is called nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha means they were never contaminated. The sādhana-siddha and kṛpā-siddha was contaminated by material touch, and by following regulative principles or by the mercy or grace of some devotee and ācārya they're elevated to the perfectional state. But nitya-siddha means they were never contaminated. They're ever liberated. So all the associates of Lord Caitanya, just like Advaita Prabhu, Śrīvāsa, Gadādhara, Nityānanda, they are Viṣṇu-tattva. They are all liberated. Not only they, the Gosvāmīs... There are many others. So they are ever-liberated. So one who can understand that the associates of Lord Caitanya are ever-liberated... Nitya-siddha bale māni, sei yaya vrajendra suta-pāśa. Immediately he becomes eligible to enter into the abode of Kṛṣṇa.

*And then he says, gauḍa*-maṇḍala-bhūmi, yebā jāni cintāmaṇi. A... The gaura-maṇḍala means the place in West Bengal wherein Lord Caitanya had His pastimes. In Navadvīpa, during Lord Caitanya's birth anniversary, the devotees go and circumambulate different places of Lord Caitanya's pastimes. It takes nine days. So that portion of Bengal is called gauḍa-maṇḍala. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "One who understands that there is no difference between this part of the country with Vṛndāvana," tāra haya vraja-bhūmi vāsa, "it is as good as one lives in Vṛndāvana." Then he says, gaura-prema rasārṇarve. Lord Caitanya's activities is just like an ocean of loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore one who takes a dip into this ocean, gaura-prema-rasārṇave, sei taraṅga yebā ḍube. Just like we take a dip and bath, and we play, sport, in the waves of the ocean or sea. Similarly, one who takes pleasure, taking a dip and sporting with the waves of the ocean of Lord Caitanya's distribution of love of God, such a person becomes immediately a confidential devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Sei rādhā-mādhava-antaraṅga. Antaraṅga means not ordinary devotee. They are confidential devotee. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, gṛhe vā vanete thāke. "Such devotee, who is taking pleasure in the waves of Lord Caitanya's movement," because he has become a very confidential devotee of the Lord...

Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "Such devotee, it doesn't matter whether he's in the renounced order of life or whether he is a householder." Gṛha. Gṛha means householder. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement does not say that one has to become a renounced order, sannyāsī. Just like Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, impersonalists, Śaṅkarācārya, they first, they put the first condition that "You take up the renounced order of life first, and then talk of spiritual advancement." So in Śaṅkara sampradāya nobody is accepted as bona fide impersonalist unless he has accepted the renounced order of life. But here, in Caitanya's movement, there is no such restriction. Advaita Prabhu, He was a householder. Nityānanda, He was householder. Gadādhara, He was also householder. And Śrīvāsa, he was also householder. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also married twice. So it doesn't matter. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that to become in renounced order of life, or to remain in householder life, that does not matter. If he is actually taking part in the movements of Caitanya's saṅkīrtana activities and actually understanding what it is, he is taking sport in the waves of such devotional ocean, then such person is always liberated. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is aspiring his association ever increasingly. That is the sum and substance of this song. (end)



690107PU.LA

Purport to Bhajahū Re Mana

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Los Angeles, January 7, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Bhajahū re mana, śrī*-nanda-nandana-abhaya-caraṇāravinda re. This is a song composed by Govinda dāsa, a great poet and Vaiṣṇava. He says, addressing his own mind Because mind is the center of all elevation. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that if you have your mind controlled, then your mind is the best friend. But if your mind is uncontrolled, then he is your greatest enemy. So we are seeking after friend or enemy. So both of them are sitting with me. If we can utilize the friendship of the mind, then we are elevated to the highest perfectional stage. But if we create mind as my enemy, then my path to hell is clear. Therefore Govinda dāsa Ṭhākura, he is addressing his mind. The yogis try to control the mind by different gymnastic process. That is also approved. But it takes a long time, and sometimes there are failures. In most cases they are failures. Even a big yogi like Viśvāmitra, he also failed, what to speak of these teeny and nonsensical yogis.



*So Govinda dāsa advises that "You just engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then mind becomes automatically controlled.'' If the mind has no chance of being engaged in any other business except Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he cannot become my enemy. It is automatically my friend. That is the instruction in the Śrīmad*-Bhāgavatam: sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. Lord, King Ambarīṣa, he first of all engaged his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, here also, Govinda dāsa Ṭhākura, he is asking his mind: "My dear mind, you just engage yourself to the lotus feet of abhaya-caraṇāravinda.'' Abhaya-caraṇāravinda. That is the name of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Abhaya means fearless. If you take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa then you immediately become fearless. So he advises "My dear mind, you just engage yourself on the service of the lotus feet of Govinda.'' Bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana. He does not say "Govinda.'' He addresses Kṛṣṇa as "the son of Nanda Mahārāja.'' "Because that lotus feet is fearless, you will have no more any fear from the attack of māyā."

*"Oh, I have got to enjoy so many things. How can I fix up my mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa?'' Then Govinda dāsa advises, "No, no.'' Durlabha mānava*-janma. "You don't waste your life in that way. This human form of life is very rare. Out of many, many thousands and millions of births, you have got this opportunity.'' Durlabha mānava-janama sat-saṅge. "Therefore don't go anywhere. You just associate with pure devotees.'' Taraha ei bhava-sindhu re.'' Then you shall be able to cross of the ocean of nescience.'' "Oh, if I engage my mind always in Kṛṣṇa, then how I shall enjoy my family, my other paraphernalia?'' So Govinda dāsa says, ei dhana yauvana. "You want to enjoy your wealth and your youthful ages,'' ei dhana yauvana, putra parijana, "and you want to enjoy the society of freindship, love and family, but I say,'' ithe ki āche paratīti re, "do you think that there is transcendental pleasure in these nonsense thing? No, there is none. It is simply illusion.'' Ei dhana yauvana, putra parijana, ithe ki āche paratīti re. Durlabha mānava-janama sat-saṅge, taraha ei bhava sindhu re.



Then again he says that



śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa

ei dina jāminī jāgi 're

viphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana

*capala sukha*-laba lāgi' re



*Now Govinda dāsa is reminding his mind: "You have experience of your material happiness. So material happiness means, the ultimate goal of material happiness is sex life. But don't you remember how long you can enjoy this sex life?" Capala. "Flickering. Say, for a few minutes or moment. That's all. But for that purpose you are working so hard?" Śīta ātapa. "Don't care for snowfall. Don't care for scorching heat. Don't care for torrents of rain. Don't care for keeping night, night duty. Whole day and night you are working. And what is the result? Simply for that flickering momentous enjoyment. Are you not ashamed of this?" So śīta ātapa, bāta bariṣaṇa, ei dina jāminī jāgi re. Dina means day, and jāminī means night. So "Day and night, you are working so hard. Why?" Capala sukha*-laba lāgi' re. "Simply for that flickering happiness." Then he says, ei dhana yauvana, putra parijana, ithe ki āche paratīti re. "There is no happiness actually, eternal happiness, transcendental happiness, in enjoying this life, or this youthful age, or family, society. There is no happiness, no transcendental happiness."



*Therefore kamala*-dala-jala, jīvana ṭalamala. "And you do not know how long you shall enjoy this life. Because it is tottering. You are on the tottering platform. Just like there is water on the lily leaf. It is tilting. At any moment it will fall down. So our life is tilting. At any moment it may collapse. We may meet, by chance, any danger, and finished. So don't waste life in that way.'' Bhajahū hari-pada nīti re. "Be always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the success of your life.'' And how to discharge this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? He advises, śravaṇa kīrtana, smaraṇa vandana, pāda-sevana dāsya re. You can adopt out of the nine ways of devotional service any one. If you can adopt all of them, that's very nice. If not, you can adopt eight of them. You can adopt seven of them, six of them, five of them, four of them. But even if you adopt only one of them, your life will be successful. What are those nine methods? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Hearing from authoritative sources. And chanting. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Smaraṇam. Memorizing. Vandanam, prayers. Śravaṇa kīrtanaṁ, smaraṇaṁ vandana, pāda-sevanam. Offering service to His lotus feet as eternal servant. Pūjana sakhī-jana. Or just try to love Kṛṣṇa as your friend. Ātma-nivedana. Or give up everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is the way of devotional service, and Govinda dāsa is aspiring after that Kṛṣṇa consciousness business. (end)



690108PU.LA

Purport to the Maṅgalācaraṇa Prayers

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Los Angeles, January 8, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Vande 'ham means "I am offering my respectful obeisances." Vande. V*-a-n-d-e. Vande means "offering my respectful obeisances." Aham. Aham means "I." Vande 'ham śrī-gurūn, all the gurus, or spiritual masters. The offering of respect direct to the spiritual master means offering respect to all the previous ācāryas. Gurūn means plural number. All the ācāryas, they are not different from one another. Because they are coming in the disciplic succession from the original spiritual master and they have no different views, therefore, although they are many, they are one. Vande 'ham śrī-gurūn śrī-yuta-pada-kamalam. Śrī-yuta means "with all glories, with all opulence." Pada-kamalam, "lotus feet." Offering of respect to the superior begins from the feet, and blessing begins from the head. That is the system. The disciple offers his respect by touching the lotus feet of the spiritual master, and the spiritual master blesses the disciple by touching his head. Therefore it is said, "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of all the ācāryas.'' Śrī-yuga-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca. Gurūn means spiritual master, and vaiṣṇavāṁś ca means all their followers, devotees of Lord.



Spiritual master means they must have many followers. They are all Vaiṣṇavas. They are called prabhus, and the spiritual master is called prabhupāda because on his lotus feet there are many prabhus. Pada means lotus foot. So all these Vaiṣṇavas, they are all prabhus. So they are also offered respectful Not that the spiritual master alone, but along with his associates. And these associates are all Vaiṣṇavas, his disciples. They are also devotees of the Lord; *therefore they should also be offered respectful obeisances. This is the process. Then śrī*-rūpam. The spiritual master is descending from the Six Gosvāmīs. Out of the Six Gosvāmīs, Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī and his elder brother Sanātana Gosvāmī are heading the list. Śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātam. Agrajātam means his elder brother, eldest brother. Śrī-rupaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitam. They are also associated with other Gosvāmīs, two Raghunāthas, raghunāthān, plural number. There were Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī and Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. Then Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī. So all they are offered respected obeisances one after another.

*And after finishing respectful obeisances to the spiritual master and the Gosvāmīs, then we approach Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya is also approached with His associates. Sāvadhūtam, sādvaitam. Sa means "with.'' Advaita, Advaita Gosai. And avadhūta means Nityānanda. So with Advaita and with Nityānanda, the offering goes to the Lord, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So after finishing all these obeisances one after another, according to the system, then śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān, then we approach Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa is also associate. Kṛṣṇa is associated with Rādhārāṇī, and He (she?) is associated with Her immediate companions like Lalitā, Viśākhā, and others. So this is the process of offering respectful obeisances to the Deity. We cannot approach Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa directly. We have to approach through the spiritual master, through the Gosvāmīs, through the associates of Lord Caitanya. Then we approach Rādhā, then Kṛṣṇa. If one approaches Kṛṣṇa through this channel of disciplic succession, his efforts becomes successful. Otherwise, if he wants to approach Kṛṣṇa directly, it will be futile endeavor. (end)



690109PU.LA

Purport to Gaurāṅga Bolite Habe

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Los Angeles, January 9, 1969



*Prabhupāda: This nice song was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, one of the great ācāryas of the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. That is the sect of Vaisnavism started by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Gauḍīya means belonging to Bengal. There are five Gauḍa*-deśa in the northern part of India, out of which, part of Bengal, West Bengal, is called Gauḍa-deśa. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's songs are very appropriate just to the conclusions of Vedic injunctions. So he sings this song, how one can rise up to the transcendental plane for associating directly with Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, what is that process. The process is one should begin this



*Kṛṣṇa consciousness under the$mercy of Lord Caitanya. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself and He is teaching people how to become Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lord Kṛṣṇa, He personally spoke about Himself in the Bhagavad*-gītā, but people who are not very intelligent, who are described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha... Mūḍha means rascal. And duṣkṛtina, miscreant, and narādhama. Narādhama means lowest of the mankind. Such persons cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. But still, Kṛṣṇa was so merciful that in order to claim all these people, means the lowest of mankind, miscreant, and fools, and rascals, rejected, so He came in the form of Lord Caitanya to reclaim them. So God is so merciful that even some persons cannot understand Him... First thing is people cannot understand actually what is God, but God comes Himself to explain Himself. Still, they commit mistake. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee to teach us about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

*So we have to follow the footprints of Lord Caitanya. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura teaches that "First of all, try to chant the name of Gaursundara." Śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. In this way, when we are a little bit attached with Gaurasundara, Lord Caitanya, then we automatically feel transcendental emotion. And that emotional stage is exhibited by shivering in the body. We should not, however, imitate such shivering to show to the public that "I have become a great devotee," but we should execute devotional service nicely and faithfully.; *then that stage will come automatically, shivering. As soon as one will chant the name of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, there will be shivering. This is the first symptom that one is getting advanced in the perfectional stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka śarīre. He's expecting. Although he was a great ācārya, still, he was expecting, "When that stage will come?'' The wording of the song is as follows. G-a-u-r-a-n-g-a, gaurāṅga. Bolite, b-a-l-i-t-e. Habe, h-a-b-e. Gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka, p-u-l-a-k-a. Pulaka śarīra, s-a-r-i-r. Gaurāṅga bolite habe pulaka śarīra hari hari, h-a-r*-i h-a-r-i. Bolite, b-a-l-i-t-e. Hari hari bolite habe, h-a-b-e. Hari hari bolite kabe. Not habe, kabe, k-a-b-e. Nayane, n-a-y-a-n-e. Ba'be, b-a-b-e, Nīra, n-e-e-r. The meaning is that there will be not only shivering as soon as I utter the name of Gaurāṅga, but there will be torrents of tears in my eyes as soon as I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. this is the explanation.

*The next line is āra kabe nitāi*-cānder koruṇā hoibe. (spells out) Āra kabe nitāi-cānder koruṇā koribe. This is also aspiration, that "When Nityānanda Prabhu, the constant associate of Lord Caitanya, will be pleased upon me?" Koruṇā koribe. Koruṇā koribe means He will be pleased upon me. Nityānanda Prabhu or Nitāi-cānd, is the original spiritual master. He is Baladeva. Bala means strength, and deva, the Personality of Godhead who gives strength. Therefore Nitāi-cānd is the symbol of spiritual master who gives strength to the disciples. This is the process of disciplic succession. We have to acquire the spiritual strength. No amount of material strength can help me in the advancement of spiritual life. We must derive the spiritual strength. Just like we have to take electricity from the powerhouse by directly connecting with the powerhouse. Not the wiring but the electricity. Similarly, this disciplic succession means the strength is descending from the original person through the spiritual master. That is the idea. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura explains that "When Nitāicānd will be pleased?" And the result of such pleasure of Nitāicānd is that one becomes free from all desires for material enjoyment.

*āra kabe nitāi*-cānd koruṇā karibe

*saṁsāra*-bāsanā mora kabe tuccha ha'be



*(spells out). So by the mercy of Nitāi*-cānd, one will get free from all desires of material enjoyment.



The next line is viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana. (spells out) This kabe means when, aspiring. Śuddha means purified. Ha'be, will be. Mana means mind. So when actually our spiritual master or Nityānanda Prabhu is pleased upon us, at that time the symptom will be that we shall no longer hanker after material enjoyment. When that stage of life is arrived, at that time only, we can understand what is Vṛndāvana, the abode of Kṛṣṇa. Vṛndāvana is not a material place, just like ordinary city or country. It is transcendental. So appreciation of Vṛndāvana will be possible when our mind is free from all material desires. Viṣaya chāḍiyā. Viṣaya means eating, sleeping, mating and defending. They are called viṣaya. Viṣaya means objects. In the material world there are, these four objects are in view: how I shall eat, how I shall sleep, how shall I mate, how shall I defend. So as soon as one is purified of all material desires, these material objectives will not be a problem.

viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana

*kabe hāma herabo śrī*-vṛndāvana



So then we shall be able to understand what is Vṛndāvana and what is kingdom of God or Goloka Vṛndāvana.



*And the next stage is that one has to understand what is the loving affairs, conjugal love, between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. And that will be possible if we carefully study the literatures left by the Gosvāmīs. Just like Rūpa Goswami has left behind him bhakti*-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Vidagdha-mādhava, Lalitā-mādhava. Many books. Especially that Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So

viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana

*kabe hāma herabo śrī*-vṛndāvana

*rūpa*-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti...



*(spells out) Habe means "will be". Ākuti eagerness. "When I shall be very much eager to understand what is spoken by the Gosvāmīs?'' These are the processes. We have to derive the pleasure of Nityānanda. We have to understand the six Gosvāmīs, what they are speaking. We have to cleanse our mind from material desires. These are the qualifications to understand what is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we shall be misled, we shall think Rādhā*-Kṛṣṇa ordinary boy and girl. No. The activities are just like that, but it is all spiritual. There is no material contamination at all. There is no material inebrieties. Therefore, in such loving affairs, in such embracing, such kissing, in Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, that is all spiritual, eternal, blissful, full of knowledge, full of pleasure.



*So at the present moment, in material condition, it is not possible to understand, but this is the purificatory process. We have to chant śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. This chanting process has got the spiritual value to lead us to the highest stage of understanding Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as we are capable of understanding what is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, then it is possible for getting admission in the spiritual world. So all people interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness should follow the regulative principles, gradually raise himself one after another, and reach the highest successful transcendental platform of understanding Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. (end)



690110PU.LA

Purport to Gaura Pahū

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Los Angeles, January 10, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Gaura pahū nā bhajiyā goinu, prema*-rathana-dhana helāya hārāiṅu. This is another song by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. He's saying that "I have invited my spiritual death by not worshiping Lord Caitanya." Gaura pahū nā bhajiyā goinu. Gaura pahū means "Lord Caitanya," and nā bhajiyā, "without worshiping." Goinu, "I have invited spiritual death." And adhame yatane kari dhanu tainu. "Why I have invited the spiritual death? Because I am engaged in something which is useless and I have rejected the real purpose of my life."Adhama means valueless things. And dhana means valuables. So actually, everyone of us, neglecting our spiritual emanicipation, we are engaged in material sense gratification, and therefore we are losing the opportunity of this human form of body to elevate myself on the spiritual platform. This human body is especially given to the conditioned soul to take a chance for spiritual emancipation. So anyone who does not care for spiritual emancipation, he is inviting spiritual death. Spiritual death means to forget oneself, that he's spirit. That is spiritual death. So in the animal life it is fully forgetfulness. They cannot be reminded at any circumstances that they are not this body, they are different from this body. It is only in this human form of body, human form of life, one can understand that he is not this body, he's spirit soul. So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, one can easily understand this fact, and by worshiping Lord Caitanya, following His principles and ways, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and very easily come to the platform of spiritual understanding. But Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says on our behalf that we are neglecting this. Therefore we are inviting spiritual death.



*Then he says that prema*-rathana-dhana helāya hārāiṅu. Spiritual life means to develop real love. The... Everyone says love. There are so many signboards, so many papers, "love, love." But there is no love. This is illusion. It is all lust. Love for intoxication, love for sex, love for this... This is going on. So actual love means... Love, this word, can be applicable only with Kṛṣṇa, with God. Because we are created for that purpose. To love means to love Kṛṣṇa. So that is wanted. That is spiritual love. So prema-rathana. I could achieve that transcendental position of love, but I am neglecting. Therefore I am calling my spiritual death. And these things are happening due to my past misdeeds. Due to my past deeds, misdeeds, I have got a type of body. Everyone who has got this material body, it is due to past misdeeds. The... sometimes we call pious deeds. Actually, so long one gets this material body there is no pious deeds. Pious deeds means no more material body. That is pious deeds. Otherwise it is to be taken as a fact that even Brahmā, who is the chief living entity within this universe and has got a mass of years as duration of life, all power, still, that is also considered as misdeeds. Because he has got the material body. So we are going deep down and down, one after another, body, by our misdeeds. In the Bhāgavata also it is stated that they do not know that by this sense gratificatory process they will have another body. And the body is the cause of material pangs. Because I have got this body, therefore I feel headache, I feel stomachache. I feel this and that. But, as soon as we are out of this material body, there is no more material pangs. It is simply joyful life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Prasannātmā means joyful. As soon as one gets spiritual life. So due to my past deeds, I am missing this opportunity. Apana kara mada seva...

*And why it is happening? Sat*-saṅga chāḍi khainu asatyera vilāsa. "I have given up the association of devotees, but I am associating with common nonsense men." Asatyera. Asat and sat. Sat means spirit. And asat means matter. So association of material attachment means implication in this material conditional life. So one has to make association with devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgād mama vīrya-saṁvido. One can understand about God only in association of devotees. Therefore we are advocating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, society. Actually, you'll find, one who comes to this society, by associating a few days, a few weeks, he becomes conscious and he comes forward for initiation and further advancement. So this association is very important. And the, those who are conducting different centers and temples, they should be very responsible men. Because everything will depend on their sincere activities and character. If they are insincere, then that will not be effective. One may come and associate with us, but if we are insincere, then it will be not be effective. But if the devotees are sincere, anyone who will come in contact with a devotee, he'll change. That is the secret. Sat-saṅga chāḍi asatyera vilāsa. And as soon as we give up the association of these devotees, immediately māyā will catch me. Immediately. Māyā is just side by side. As soon as we give up this company, māyā says "Yes, come in my company." Without any company, nobody can remain neutral. That is not possible. He must associate with māyā or Kṛṣṇa. So everyone should be very much serious to keep association with devotees, with Kṛṣṇa.



*Kṛṣṇa means... When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa" means Kṛṣṇa with His devotes. Kṛṣṇa is never alone. Kṛṣṇa is with Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī is with the gopīs. And Kṛṣṇa is with the cowherd boys. We are not impersonalists. We do not see Kṛṣṇa alone. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa means with Kṛṣṇa's devotees. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to keep association with the devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Viṣaya viṣama viṣa satata khāinu. And he says that "I have drunk always the most dangerous poison of sense gratification." Viṣaya viṣama viṣa. Viṣaya means sense gratification. Eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. These are called... These four principles are called viṣaya. And viṣama means dangerously. And viṣa means poison. If one is simply engaged with these four principles of life, just like animals. Then it is to be supposed that he's simply drinking poison. That's all. Viṣaya viṣama satata khāinu. "I know this (is) poison, but I am so much intoxicated that I am drinking this poison every moment." Gaura*-kīrtana-rase magana nā painu. "And I could not merge myself into the saṅkīrtana movement started by Lord Caitanya." Oh, that is actually the fact. Those who are too much attached to materialistic way of life, or always drinking the poison of sense gratification, they are not attracted by the saṅkīrtana movement.

So at the last, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is lamenting. He's not lamenting. He's representing ourself. If one comes to that point of lamentation, that is also very nice. He immediately becomes purified. Lamentation means purification. So he says, keno vā āchaya prāṇa kichu bali... "Why I am living? I do not make association with the devotees. I do not take part in the saṅkīrtana movement. I do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa. I do not understand what is Lord Caitanya. Then what for I am living?" This is lamentation. "What is my happiness? What is the standard of my happiness? Why I am living?" Narottama dāsa kena nā gela. "Why I did not die long, long ago? I should have died. What is the meaning of my living?" So it is not Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's lamentation. Everyone of us should think like that, that "If we cannot make association with devotees, if we do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, if we do not come in touch with Lord Caitanya and associates, it was better for me to die. And there is no other remedy." This is the substance of this song. (end)



690111PU.LA

Purport to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu

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Los Angeles, January 11, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu doyā koro more, tomā binā ke doyālu jagata-māyāre. This is a song composed by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. He is praying Lord Caitanya that "My dear Lord, please be merciful upon me because who can be more merciful than Your Lordship within these three worlds?'' Actually, this is the fact. Not only Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, but also Rūpa Gosvāmī, he also prayed for Lord Caitanya when both of them met at Prayāga, Allahabad, in the first meeting of Lord Caitanya and Rūpa Gosvāmī at Prayāga. At that time, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī also said, "My dear Lord, You are the most munificent of all incarnations. Because You are distributing love of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.'' In other words, when Kṛṣṇa was personally present, He simply asked us to surrender, but He did not distribute Himself so easily. He made condition that "First of all you surrender.'' But here, in this incarnation, Lord Caitanya, although He's Kṛṣṇa Himself, He makes no condition. He simply distributes, "Take love of Kṛṣṇa.'' Therefore Lord Caitanya is approved as the most munificent incarnation, and Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that "Please be merciful upon me. You are so magnanimous because You have seen the fallen souls of this age, and You are very much compassionate upon them. But you should know also that I am the most fallen. Nobody is a greater fallen than me.'' Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra. "Your incarnation is just to reclaim the conditioned souls, fallen souls. But I assure You that You will not find a greater fallen than me. Therefore my claim is first."



Then he prays to Lord Nityānanda. He says, hā hā prabhu nityānanda, premānanda sukhī. "My dear Lord Nityānanda, You are always joyful, in spiritual bliss, and You appear always very happy. So I have come to You because I am most unhappy. So if You kindly put Your glance over me, then I may also become happy."

*Then he prays to Advaita Prabhu: hā hā prabhu sītā*-pati advaita gosāi. Advaita Prabhu's wife's name was Sītā. Therefore He is sometimes addressed as sītā-pati. So "My dear Advaita Prabhu, the husband of Sītā, please You also be kind upon me because if You become kind upon me, then naturally Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda also will be kind upon me." The reason is that actually, Advaita Prabhu invited Lord Caitanya to come down. When Advaita Prabhu saw the fallen souls, they are all engaged simply in sense gratificatory processes without understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness, He felt very much compassionate upon the fallen souls, and He felt Himself as incapable of claiming all these fallen souls. He therefore prayed to Lord Kṛṣṇa that "You come Yourself. Without Your personal presence, it is not possible to deliver these fallen souls." So by His invitation Lord Caitanya appeared. "Naturally..." Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays Advaita Prabhu that "If You be kind upon me, naturally Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda also will be kind upon me."

Then he prays to the Gosvāmīs. Hā hā svarūpa, sanātana, rūpa, raghunātha. "My dear Gosvāmī Prabhus,'' svarūpa. Svarūpa was Svarūpa Dāmodara was personal secretary of Lord Caitanya. He was always keeping with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and whatever He wanted, he immediately arranged for that. Two personal attendants, Svarūpa Dāmodara and Govinda, they were always, constantly with Lord Caitanya. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura also praying Svarūpa Dāmodara. And then the Gosvāmīs. The next disciples of Lord Caitanya were the six Gosvāmīs: Śrī Rūpa, Śrī Sanātana, Śrī Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, Śrī Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī, and Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. These six Gosvāmīs were directly instructed by Lord Caitanya for spreading this movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is praying also their mercy. And after the six Gosvāmīs, the next ācārya was Śrīnivāsa Ācārya. So he's also praying Śrīnivāsa Ācārya.

Actually, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura was in the disciplic succession after Śrīnivāsa Ācārya. Or almost he was contemporary. And his personal friend was Rāmacandra, Rāmacandra Cakravartī. So he is praying that "I always desire the company of Rāmacandra." Devotee's company. The whole process is that we should always be praying mercy of the superior ācāryas. And we should keep company with pure devotee. Then it will be easier for us to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to receive the mercy of Lord Caitanya and Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is the sum and substance of this song sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. (end)



690116PU.LA

Purport to Parama Koruṇa

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Los Angeles, January 16, 1969



*Prabhupāda: Parama koruṇa, pahū dui jana, nitāi gauracandra. This is a song sung by Locana dāsa Ṭhākura, a great devotee of Lord Caitanya, almost contemporary. He wrote one book, Caitanya*-maṅgala, depicting the activities of Lord Caitanya. That is a very famous book, Caitanya-maṅgala. And he has composed many songs. Practically all Vaiṣṇavas, they are transcendentally poetic. That is one of the 26 qualifications of the Vaiṣṇava. So he says that "These two Lords," nitāi gauracandra, "Lord Nityānanda and Lord Gaurāṅga, or Lord Caitanya, They are very merciful incarnations.'' Saba avatāra-sāra śiromaṇi. "They are essence of all incarnations.'' The incarnation is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that whenever there is discrepancies in the prosecution of religiosities and there is prominence of impious activities, at that time the Lord incarnates, or He descends on this material world, for protecting the pious and annihilating the impious. That is the mission of incarnation. Every incarnation you'll find two things. Lord Kṛṣṇa, He's so beautiful, so kind, but He is very dangerous to the demons. The demons were seeing Him as thunderbolt and the gopīs were seeing Him as the most beautiful cupid. So in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. The God is realized in proportion to one's freedom from the demoniac propensities.



*So in this age... Of course, the last incarnation, Kalki, will simply kill. Long, long after, He will come. But here Lord Caitanya, His mission is no killing, simply favoring. That is the specific characteristic of Lord Caitanya. Because in this age, of course, there is very much prominence of irreligiosity. But if Lord Caitanya wanted to kill them, then there was no question of their salvation. They would be... Of course, anyone who is killed by incarnation he also gets salvation. But not to the spiritual planets, but they merge into the Brahman effulgence as the impersonalists desire. In other words, the impersonalist's goal of salvation is as good as the goal of salvation of the enemies of God. That is not a very difficult job. So Lord Caitanya is very merciful because He is embracing everyone by bestowing love of Kṛṣṇa. Rūpa Gosvāmī has described Lord Caitanya as the most munificent of all the incarnations because He is giving Kṛṣṇa to everyone, without any qualification. So Locana dāsa Ṭhākura says that parama koruṇa, pahū dui jana, nitāi gauracandra, that They are essence of all incarnation. Kevala ānanda*-kanda. And Their preaching process is very pleasing. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance nicely, and when you feel tired, just take rest and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam." So His formula is very pleasing. Kevala ānanda-kanda. While He was present in Jagannātha Purī, every day in the evening, dancing was, chanting and dancing continued. And after dancing is finished, He used to distribute sumptuously prasādam of Jagannātha. So many thousands of people used to assemble every night. So simply transcendentally pleasing, this movement. Kevala ānanda-kanda.

Then he recommends, bhajo bhajo bhāi, caitanya nitāi. "My dear brother, just try to worship these two Lords, Caitanya and Nityānanda," sudṛḍha viśvāsa kori', "with faith and conviction." One should have faith in the words of Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya says that "Go on chanting. Simply by chanting, one will get all perfection of life." So this is a fact. Unless we take to chanting, we cannot realize it, but those who are chanting, they are realizing that they're getting all desired perfection of life very quickly. So we should chant this mantra with faith and conviction. But the only qualification required in this connection, he says, viṣaya chāḍiyā, se rase majiyā, mukhe bolo hari hari. We have to chant with faith and conviction at the same time we should take care, we should be guarding against sense enjoyment. Viṣaya chāḍiyā, viṣaya means sense enjoyment. And chāḍiyā means give up. One should give up sense enjoyment. Of course, in this materialistic life we have got our senses and we are practiced to use them. We cannot stop it. But there is no question of stopping, but regulating it. Just like we want to eat. Viṣaya means eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. So these things are not forbidden altogether. But they're adjusted just to make it favorable for executing my Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we should not take... Just like eating. We should not eat just to satisfy the taste. We should eat only just to keep ourself fit for executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So eating is not stopped, but it is regulated favorably. Similarly, mating. Mating is also not stopped. But the regulative principle is that you should marry and you should have sex life only for begetting children Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise don't do it. So everything is regulated. There is no question of stopping defense also. Arjuna was fighting, defending, under the order of Kṛṣṇa. So everything is there. Nothing stop. Simply it is adjusted for executing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Viṣaya chāḍiyā. We should not accept these viṣaya, these four principles of bodily demands, namely eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, for sense gratification. No. The politicians, they fight for sense gratification. They do not see to the good of the people. For their political aggrandizement they fight. That fight is forbidden. But when fight is necessity for defending people, that fighting should be taken. So we have to give up this principle of sense gratification, or sense gratificatory process.



*Dekho dekho bhāi tri*-bhuvane nāi. Then he says, "Just see that there is nobody else so merciful.'' Paśu pākhī jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare. By His mercy even the birds and beasts, they are also maintained. Actually, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu passed through the forest known as Jhārikhaṇḍa in central India, He was only accompanied by his personal attendant, and He was alone, and when He was passing through the forest He touched one tiger. He was sleeping, and the tiger answered roaring. The company, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's attendant, he thought, "Now we are gone.'' But actually, Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked the tiger, "Why you are sleeping? Just stand up. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.'' And the tiger began to dance. So actually, this happened. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, the tigers, the deers, the Everyone joined. So, of course, we are not so powerful. But it is possible that At least, we have seen, the dogs are dancing in saṅkīrtana. So it is possible also to take But we may not attempt such great risk. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu could induce tigers to dance, we can at least induce every human being to dance. This is such a nice movement.

*So paśu pākhī jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare. Pāṣāṇa means stone. So even the stone*-hearted man we also melts by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That we have experienced, seen. Pāṣāṇa vidare, śuni' jāra guṇa-gāthā. Simply by hearing the transcendental pastimes and characteristics of Lord Caitanya, even hard-hearted men, they also melted. There were many instances, Jagāi Mādhāi. Many fallen souls, they became elevated to the highest spiritual platform. Then Locana dāsa Ṭhākura says that viṣaya majiyā, rohili poriyā. "Unfortunately I am so much entrapped in these demands of the body or the senses that I have forgotten the lotus feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.'' Viṣaya majiyā, rohili poriyā, se pade nahilo āśa. "I could not desire to be attached to the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya.'' So why it is so? So he's lamenting that āpana karama, bhuñjāye śamana, that "I am suffering the sequence of my past misdeeds, that I could not be attracted by the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is a punishment on me by the Yamaraja, the superintendent of death.'' Actually, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, saṅkīrtana movement, is so nice and attractive, every simple, I mean to say, unsophisticated person shall be attracted. But if one is not attracted it is to be understood that he is being punished by the laws of the superintendent of death. Anyway, if we stick to this principle of chanting, then even Yamarāja, the superintendent of death, he'll also fail to punish. That is the verdict of Brahma-saṁhitā. Brahma-saṁhitā says, one who takes to this devotional life, his reaction of past deeds are adjusted immediately. so every one of us should take part in this movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. (end)



690520PU.COL

Purport to Jīv Jāgo

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Columbus, May 20, 1969



Prabhupāda: Jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo, gauracānda bole. Jīv means the living entities. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is asking all living entities to "Wake up. Please wake up. Please get up." Jāgo. Jāgo means "Wake up."



jīva jāgo, jīv jāgo, gauracānda bole

*kota nidrā jāo māyā*-piśācīra kole



*"How long you shall go on sleeping on the lap of the witches, māyā?" Bhajibo boliyā ese saṁsāra*-bhitare: "In the womb of your mother you promised that this life you shall engage in the matter of developing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Bhuliyā rohile tumi avidyāra bhare: "But you are forgotten everything under the spell of illusory energy." Actually, when$the child remains within the womb of his mother, packed up in airtight bag, at the age of seven months within the womb, when he develops his consciousness, he feels very uncomfortable, and the fortunate baby prays to God, "Please relieve me from this awkward position, and this life I shall fully engage myself in developing my God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." But as soon as the child comes out of the womb of his mother, under the spell of these three modes of material nature he forgets, and he cries, and the parents take care, and the whole thing is forgotten.



*There is one instance of Parīkṣit Mahārāja. When he was in the womb of his mother, their paternal, I mean to say, enemy, Droṇa..., son of Droṇācārya, Aśvatthāmā, he released a weapon called brahmāstra. The brahmāstra could kill even within the womb. So at that time Lord Kṛṣṇa entered and saved the child. The child saw the form of Kṛṣṇa and was remembering. And when the child came out, he was trying to find out where is that form. He was searching after Kṛṣṇa. So the astrologers who were present there, they could understand that this child is seeking something. Therefore his name was given, Parīkṣit. Parīkṣit means one who is trying to test. Parikṣa. Parikṣa means test, examination. So there are many examples, of course, very rare, the child remembers. Generally forgets. So Lord Caitanya is trying to wake up all children of māyā, nature's son, to wake up. The similar instruction is in the Vedic Upaniṣad. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata. The advice is that "Everyone should now wake up. They should not sleep under the spell of illusion, material nature. This human form of body must be utilized." The same thing Lord Caitanya is speaking in ordinary songs, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo, gauracānda bole: "All living entities wake up. Don't miss this opportunity." Kota nidrā jāo māyā*-piśācīra: "How long you shall remain asleep in this way, under the spell of māyā? This is the opportunity. Don't sleep."

*Then He says, "You have forgotten. But I have brought one medicine so that..." Just like when a man remains unconscious under some intoxication or snake bite, there are some herbs. If it is put before the nostril and if the patient smells, immediately he gets consciousness. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "I have brought also one medicine." Enechi auśādhi māyā nasibaro lagi': "This medicine can dissipate your this forgetfulness under the spell of māyā." Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro. What is that? Hari*-nāma mahā-mantra lao tumi: "This is this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. You please take it." The idea is that if one simply chants Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, his unconscious stage, or sleeping stage under the spell of illusory māyā, will gradually vanish. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12].

*So this is a song composed by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So he says that bhakativinoda prabhu*-caraṇe pariyā: "Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura took the advantage of the instruction of Lord Caitanya and immediately fell down on the lotus feet of the Lord." Hari-nāma mahā-mantra loilo māgiyā: "And very humbly he begged Lord Caitanya, 'Kindly give me this medicine, and I shall utilize it.' '' The whole instruction is that all sleeping members of the human society, they should take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and willingly they should accept. Then there will be immediate effect and everyone will be out of the clutches of māyā, and his original consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will be awakened, and his life will be sublime. (end)





690910PU.HAM

Purport to Hari Hari Biphale

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Hamburg, September 10, 1969



*Prabhupāda: ...biphale janama goṅāinu. This is a song sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a very stalwart ācārya in the line of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya, disciplic succession. He has sung many songs, important songs, and his songs are accepted as Vedic conclusion. [break] ...very authoritative songs. So he says, praying to Lord Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Lord," hari hari, "I have simply spoiled my life." Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. Why you have spoiled your life? He says, manuṣya-janama pāiyā, "I got this human form of life," rādhā*-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, "but I did not care to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Therefore I have spoiled my life." And how it is? It is exactly like one takes poison knowingly. If somebody takes poison unknowingly, there is excuse, but if somebody takes poison knowingly, it is suicidal. So he says that "I have committed suicide simply by not worshiping Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa in this human form of life."



*Then he says, golokera prema*-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, saṅkīrtana movement, is nothing material. It is directly imported from the spiritual kingdom known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. So golokera prema-dhana. And it is not ordinary song. It is just the treasure of love of Godhead. So... "But I have no attraction for this." Rati nā janmilo kene tāy. "I have no attraction for it. On the contrary," viṣaya-biṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale, "and because I did not accept it, therefore the blazing fire of the poison of material existence is constantly burning me." Dibā-niśi hiyā jwale. "Day and night, my heart is burning on account of this poisonous effect of material existence." And taribare nā koinu upāy. "But I did not seek any remedy for this." In other words, the remedy for this blazing fire of material existence is this saṅkīrtana movement. It is imported from the spiritual kingdom. And who has imported it? Or who has brought it?

*Then he says, brajendra*-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Brajendra-nandana, the son of King of Braja. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is known as son of Nanda Mahārāja. He was King of Brajabhūmi. So brajendra-nandana jei, the same personality who was formerly the son of Nanda Mahārāja has now appeared as the son of Mother Śacī. Śacī-suta hoilo sei. And balarāma hoilo nitāi. And Lord Balarāma has become Nityānanda. So these two brothers adventing, they are delivering all kinds of fallen souls. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. As many fallen souls there were within this world, they're delivering them simply by this chanting procession. Hari-nāme uddhārilo, simply by this chanting. How it is possible? Then he says, tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. The living example is the two brothers, Jagāi and Mādhāi. These Jagāi and Mādhāi, two brothers, they happened to be born in a brāhmaṇa family but they turned to be debauch number one. And... Of course, nowadays, in this age, their qualification is not considered debauch. Their debauchery was because they were drunkard and woman hunter. Therefore they were called debauch. And meat-eater also. So... But they became later on delivered by Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda. Great devotees.

*So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's explanation says that in this age although people are drunkard, woman*-hunter, meat-eater, and all..., gambler, all kinds of sinful actor, still, if they take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they'll be delivered, undoubtedly. This is the blessings of Lord Caitanya. Then Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays, hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-juta. "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, You are son of King Nanda, and Your consort Rādhārāṇī is the daughter King Vṛṣabhānu. So You are together here standing." Narottama dāsa kahe, nā ṭheliho rāṅgā pāy, "Now I am surrendering unto You, please do not kick me away or push me away with Your lotus feet because I have no other shelter. I am just taking shelter unto Your lotus feet without having any other means. So please accept me and deliver me." This is the sum and substance of this song. (end)



700802NP.LA

Purport to Nṛsiṁha Prayers

-

Los Angeles, August 2, 1970



Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.



Prabhupāda: Everything all right?



Devotees: Jaya.



Prabhupāda: Chant Nṛsiṁha mantra. (they chant together)



namas te narasiṁhāya

*prahlādāhlāda*-dāyine

hiraṇyakaśipor vakṣaḥ-

*śilā-ṭaṅka*-nakhālaye



ito nṛsiṁhaḥ parato nṛsiṁho

yato yato yāmi tato nṛsiṁhaḥ

bahir nṛsiṁho hṛdaye nṛsiṁho

nṛsiṁham ādiṁ śaraṇaṁ prapadye



*tava kara*-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgaṁ

*dalita*-hiraṇyakaśipu-tanu-bhṛṅgam

*keśava dhṛta*-narahari-rūpa jaya jagadīśa hare

jaya jagadīśa hare jaya jagadīśa hare



*Nṛsiṁhadeva may save you. Lord Nṛsiṁha, prahlāda āhlāda*-dāyine. And to the Hiraṇyakaśipu, śilā-ṭaṅka-nakhālaye. Both ways Kṛṣṇa is protecting. And Viṣṇu, you see He has got four hands. In two hands He's carrying śaṇkha, cakra and in two hands gadā, padma. This śaṅkha and padma is for the devotees, and gadā and cakra for the demons. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi... paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. He has got two business. To give protection to the devotee and to kill the demons. But the result is one. He does good to the demons by killing him and He does good to the devotees by giving him protection.



Nṛsiṁhadeva will give you protection in my absence. I am now going to Japan to get some books printed personally and after that my program is to go to India. Maybe I shall be able to establish some temples there. Of course in India there are many temples, but it does not mean that I shall not also establish some temples. Just like there is overpopulation. It does not mean that one should not beget child. Similarly, there may be many hundreds of thousand temples in India, still our this society, ISKCON, should have their own temples. That is the way since time immemorial. There are hundreds and thousands of temples. So my advice to you, I am old man. So even I may not return, you shall continue this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is eternal and I shall request you to keep the standard as I have already given you the program. The Deity worship, the kīrtana, the street saṅkīrtana, distribution of literature, books. You should carry on this program with great enthusiasm. That is my request.

*In the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness the first principle is enthusiasm. If you lack enthusiasm then other things will not happen. And you can keep enthusiastic if you follow the rules and regulation and chant regularly Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Otherwise that enthusiasm also will dry. So six things are required for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The first thing is enthusiasm. Utsāhān dhairyāt. And patient. And niścayād, with conviction, firm conviction. Utsāhān dhairyāt niścayād tat*-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Following the rules and regulation, chalked out plans. And sato vṛtteḥ, dealing very straightforward. No diplomacy, no politics, no duplicity. That will not help. Sato vṛtteḥ. Vṛtteḥ, his profession should be very straightforward. No underhand dealings. Sato vṛtteḥ and sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83], and in the association of devotees. Six things. Enthusiasm, patience, firm conviction, following the rules and regulations, dealing straightforward, no duplicity, and in association of devotees. If you can keep these six principles always in front then your progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is sure. There is no doubt about it. So as far as possible I've tried to train you and you are doing nice. I'm satisfied. So keep the standard and go on. March forward and Kṛṣṇa will bless you. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. [break] (prema-dhvanī) (end)



710214PU.GOR

*Purport to Jaya Rādhā*-Mādhava

-

Gorakhpur, February 14, 1971



*Prabhupāda: ...gopī*-jana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī, yasoda-nandana braja-jana-rañjana yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī. This small song you can practice. The tune I can give you. (Prabhupāda sings each line and devotees respond, then with mṛdaṅga and karatālas.) This is actual picture of Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā-Mādhava giri-vara-dhārī. Original Kṛṣṇa this is. Rādhā-Mādhava giri-vara-dhārī. Vraja-jana-vallabha. His business is to please the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. That's all. He has no other business. And the vraja-jana also, they have no other business than to please Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is original Kṛṣṇa. Vraja-jana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī. And first business is Rādhā-Madhave. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is concerned with everyone, especially concerned with Rādhārāṇī. Rādhā-Mādhava, kuñja-bihārī, and enjoys with Rādhā in different kuñjas, bushes, of Vṛndāvana. And then, yaśodā-nandana. Next He wants to please His mother, Yaśodā. Yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana. And Kṛṣṇa is very affectionate to all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. The son of Yaśodā and Nanda Mahārāja. They love Kṛṣṇa, all the elderly persons. They love. Elderly ladies and persons, they love Kṛṣṇa. "Oh, here is the son of Yaśodā and Nanda Mahārāja.'' They're all tenants and subordinates to Nanda Mahārāja. Nanda Mahārāja is the chief man in Vṛndāvana, and they are their subjects. So they are affectionate to Kṛṣṇa because He happens to be son of Yaśodā and Nanda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa's business is (Śrīla Prabhupāda goes into trance) (end)





710710PU.LA

Purport to Hare Krishna Maha Mantra

-

Los Angeles, July 10, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So this mahā*-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, is being chanted by Brahmā with his four mouths. Brahmā-jape catur-mukhe. Brahmā means Lord Brahmā, and jape means he is chanting, catur-mukhe, with his four heads. Within this universe, only Brahmā has got four heads. And Lord Śiva sometimes exhibits five heads. So it is explained here that Lord Brahmā is also chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, with his four mouths. Still he is chanting. He does not think that he is satiated. This transcendental name is so sweet that either you chant with your one mouth and one tongue or with one thousand mouths or one thousand tongues, still, you will never feel tired. That is the purport of this song. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, he lamented that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare, these names are so sweet that how I can relish the transcendental sweetness with one tongue and one mouth? If God would have given me millions of tongues and millions of mouths, then I would have relished a little of it." So he lamented. Here also it is said that Nārada Muni, he has got always with him a tampura, and he is traveling all over the universe constantly. He cannot stay in any place more than a few seconds, and he has no companion. But his only companion is that tampura and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said here, nārada-yabe, vīṇā-yantre, kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare. (end)





710720PU.NY

*Purport to Jaya Rādhā*-Mādhava

-

New York, July 20, 1971



*Prabhupāda: So you know this song Jaya Rādhā*-Mādhava?



Devotees: Jaya!



Prabhupāda: So you can follow me?



Devotees: Jaya! Haribol! (Śrīla Prabhupāda leads singing of Jaya



*Rādhā*-Mādhava)

*Prabhupāda: So this is the*-sit down-original nature of Kṛṣṇa, original nature of Kṛṣṇa. He is Rādhā-Mādhava. He is the lover of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. And kuñja-vihārī, always enjoying the company of the gopīs within the bushes of Vrdavana forest. Rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī. So He's not only lover of Rādhārāṇī, but braja-jana-vallabha. The whole residents of Vṛndāvana, they love Kṛṣṇa. They do not know anything else. They do not know whether Kṛṣṇa is God, or not; *neither they are very much harassed, that "I shall love Kṛṣṇa if He is God." "He may be God or He may be whatever He is. It doesn't matter, but we love God, Kṛṣṇa." That's all. That is called unnalloyed love. "If Kṛṣṇa is God, then I shall love Him"*-this is conditional love. This is not pure love. Kṛṣṇa may be God or whatever He may be, but by His wonderful acts, the Vrajavāsī, they are thinking, "Oh Kṛṣṇa, He is very wonderful child, maybe some demigod. Maybe some demigod." Because people are generally under impression that the demigods are all-powerful. They're powerful within this material world. But they do not know that Kṛṣṇa is above all of them. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. The highest demigod, Brahmā, is giving his opinion, "The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa."



*So as the residents of Vṛndāvana, they love Kṛṣṇa without any condition, similarly, Kṛṣṇa also loves them without any condition. Vraja*-jana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī. When the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana were in danger because they stopped Indra-yajña and Indra became very angry, and he sent very great, powerful cloud and rained over Vṛndāvana incessantly for seven days, so when the inhabitants became very much disturbed, Kṛṣṇa, although He was only seven years old boy, He saved them by lifting the Govardhana Hill. So He taught Indradeva, demigod, that "To stop your disturbance is the business of My little finger. That's all." So he came down to his knees. These things you'll find in Kṛṣṇa book. So as the Gopī-jana-vallabha, His only business is how to protect gopī-jana. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to become one of the gopī-jana. Then Kṛṣṇa will save us from any danger, even by lifting a hill or mountain. Kṛṣṇa is so kind and so powerful. When Kṛṣṇa lifted the hill, He did not practice some yoga system. And that is God. Although He was a child, He was playing like a child, He was dealing like a child, but when there was need, He was manifesting as God. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa, not that He has to go and practice some yoga system. Then He becomes God. No. He's not that type of God, not manufactured God. He's God.

*So gopī*-jana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī. And as a child, as beloved child of Yaśodā, Yaśodā-nandana,... Kṛṣṇa likes to be a child of a devotee. He wants to be chastised from His devotee father and mother. Because everyone worships Him, nobody goes to chastise Him, so He takes pleasure when a devotee chastises Him. That is Kṛṣṇa's service. If Kṛṣṇa takes pleasure being chastised, so the responsibility is taken by a devotee: "All right, I shall become Your father and chastise You." When Kṛṣṇa wants to fight, one of His devotees becomes Hiraṇyakaśipu and fights with Him. So all activities of Kṛṣṇa is with His devotees. He is... Therefore, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-vallabha, vraja-jana-rañjana. His only business is how to satisfy... As braja-jana's business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, similarly, Kṛṣṇa's business is how to satisfy braja-jana. This is reciprocation of love. Yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is wandering on the banks of Yamunā to please the gopīs, the cowherd boys, the birds, beasts, calves. They are not ordinary birds, beasts, calves or men. They are on the top of self-realization. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ [SB 10.12.11]. After many, many lives they got that position, to play with Kṛṣṇa.

*So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that everyone can go to Kṛṣṇaloka and become His associate, as a friend or so many other things, as a servant, as father, as mother. And Kṛṣṇa is agreeable to any one of these propositions. These things are described very nicely in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Kṛṣṇa does not go even a step from Vṛndāvana. The original Kṛṣṇa is Vṛndāvana. That is described in the Brahma*-saṁhitā,

*cintāmaṇi*-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-

lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam

*lakṣmī*-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ (tam ahaṁ bhajāmi)

[Bs. 5.29]



Brahmā is accepting the Supreme Personality of Govinda, Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam: "He is engaged in playing flute."



*(veṇuṁ kvaṇantam) aravinda*-dalāyatākṣaṁ

*barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda*-sundarāṅgam

*kandarpa*-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

*govindam ādi*-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

[Bs. 5.30]



So take advantage of these books, this knowledge, and this prasādam, this chanting, and be happy and go to Kṛṣṇa. So nice thing. All right. (end)





720527PU.LA

Purport to Bhajahu Re Mana

-

Los Angeles, May 27, 1972



*Prabhupāda: So this song was sung by Govinda dasa. Govinda-dāsa-abhilāsa re. What is his desire? Abhilāsa means desire. Bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana: "My dear mind...'' Because mind is our friend and enemy. If you train the mind, then mind is your best friend. And if you cannot train your mind, then will be your bitterest enemy. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. Therefore mind has always to be engaged on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then mind automatically will be controlled and will become friend. So Govinda dasa is expressing his desire: "My dear mind, you just be engaged in devotional service of Nanda-nandana.'' His..., he does not say Kṛṣṇa. He says Nanda-nandana. If we address Kṛṣṇa directly, that is not very pleasing, but if we say Kṛṣṇa: Nanda-nandana, Yaśodā-nandana, Devakī-nandana, Pārtha-sārathi*-in relationship with His devotee-then He becomes more pleased. So bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana. Why Śrī-Nanda-nandana? Now, abhaya-caraṇāravinda re. If you take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, Nanda-nandana, then you'll have no more anxiety, fear.



*samāṣritā ye pada*-pallava-plavaṁ

*mahat*-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

*bhavāmbudhir vatsa*-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

[SB 10.14.58]



*This is Bhagavat*-darśana. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. This material world, padaṁ padam means step by step there is danger. So one who takes shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ samāṣritā, for him there is no more danger. Abhaya-caraṇāravinda re. How it is possible to take complete shelter of Kṛṣṇa, which is fearlessness, no anxiety, vaikuṇṭha? Durlabha manava-janama sat-saṅge. This is possible if you associate with devotees. If you think that "Now I have become very much advanced. Now I shall live alone and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura,'' this is nonsense. You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You have to associate with devotees. Durlabha manava-janam sat sange. Sat-sange. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido [SB 3.25.25]. If you remain with the devotees, then by their association, by talking with them, you'll get real understanding of God consciousness. It is very practical to understand. Just like in material world there are many associations, societies. Businessmen, they have got their stock exchange association, those who are dealing in exchange. They have got an association. They go there, and their business facility is very good. Similarly, so many clubs. If you want to drink and enjoy sense, you go to so many clubs and associate with them and you'll learn how to drink, how to mate very nicely. So association is very important. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society are giving chance people to associate with us, so that he'll be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Govinda dasa recommends, durlabha mānava-janama-sat-saṅge. Mānava. This human life is durlabha, very rarely obtained. Not dogs' association, crows' association, but swans' association. There are association even by nature. "Birds of the same feather flock together.'' The crows, they'll mix with crows, and the swans will mix with swan. White swan, very nice water, nice garden, they will like that. The crows will not like that. The crows will like where filthy things are thrown away. They'll take pleasure there. So similarly, according to the quality of nature, there are different association in human society. But it is recommended that durlabha mānava sat-saṅge: not with the crows but with the swans. That association.



*So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society is the swans, paramahaṁsa. Haṁsa. Haṁsa means swan. Haṁsa, this example is given because the swan knows the technique how to take milk out of water. You give the swan milk and water, it will take the milk portion and give it up the water portion. Similarly a swan, a haṁsa, paramahaṁsa, means in this human form of life, one who takes the spiritual portion of life and rejects the material portion of life, he is called haṁsa, paramahaṁsa. We are mixed. Our body is material, but I am spirit soul. So we have to know the techniques how to get out of this material bondage. That is the process of jñāna vairāgya, knowledge and renunciation. The example is given, just like wood, firewood. If you somehow or other, you can ignite fire, then the fire will vanquish the wood. The blazing fire will consume the whole wood. Similarly, you have got the fire of spiritual consciousness. If you can evoke that spiritual consciousness, this material consciousness will be burnt up. It will come out from this material body, but when it comes out, then it will vanquish the material body. Very good, good example. The fire, there is..., in the wood there is fire, everyone knows. So you ignite fire, and if you make it dry, then the fire takes place very quickly. And when it is blazing fire, then the wood becomes vanquished. There is no more existence of the wood. Similarly, if you can invoke your spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when it will be very nicely going on, then your material existence will be finished. This is the process. Durlabha mānava*-janama sat-saṅge taraha e bhava-sindhu re. In this way, just get on the other side of this ocean of nescience.

Then, one may say that "If I associate with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then how my family affairs will go on? Who will look after my wife and children, society, friendship, love? I have got so many business.'' There, therefore he says, śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa ei dina jāminī jāgi re: "My dear mind, you are working so hard.'' Śīta ātapa. "In severe cold you are going to work. In scorching heat you are going to work. Torrents of rain... You cannot stop your work.'' Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa. "Night duty, whole night working.'' People are doing that. Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa ei dina jāminī jāgi re. Whole day work, again I'll get some more money, I'll let you work at night also, extra. In this way we are working. Why? Why you are working? Why you are working?

śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa

ei dina jāminī jāgi re

biphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana

capala sukha labha lāgi' re



*"In this way I have wasted my time,'' biphale sevinu, "to serve kṛpana durajana, some so*-called society, friendship and love. Kṛpaṇa, they will not, never, be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but I am engaged in their service.'' So this is general, not that every, every family. Mostly 99.9. So biphale sevinu, "In this way I am wasting my time. And what is the pleasure?'' Capala sukha-labha lāgi' re. "Few minutes' sex, that's all.'' Behind the sex, so many labor. Therefore Govinda dāsa says that "You are trying to enjoy wealth,'' ei-dhana, yauvana, putra, parijana. Material happiness means to acquire money, dhana; *, and then jana, many adherents or dependents*-wife, children, friends, society, so many things, country. So putra, parijana, ithe ki āche paratīti re. "You cannot have any transcendental bliss in this.'' kamala-dala-jala, jīvana ṭalamala. The life is tottering. You cannot say when the life will be finished. The example is given, kamala-jala-dala. Just like lotus leaf. If you put water on the leaf, it will not stay; *it will be tiltering. At any moment it slips. Similarly, our life is like that, tiltering. At any moment*-finished. Kamala-jala-dala, jivana..., bhajahu hari-pada nīti re. Therefore engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness as much as you can. Finish before the death comes. That is your mission. And what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Śravana, kīrtana, smarana, vandana, pāda-sevana, dāsya re, pūjana, sakhī-jana, ātma-nivedana, the nine kinds of devotional service, govinda-dāsa-abhilāṣa re.



So everyone should desire like Govinda dasa. Śravana kīrtana, these are the devotional processes: hearing; chanting; remembering; arcana, worshiping the Deity; vandana, offering prayer. There are nine kinds. So human life is meant for this purpose. By this process, gradually we ignite the fire of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or spiritual consciousness. Then, by that fire, as by blazing fire the wood itself becomes burnt into ashes, so our, all of our covering... The spirit soul is covered by matter, by ignorance. So this covering and ignorance will be burnt into ashes, and you'll become free and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the purport of this song.

Now you can begin. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)



750228PU.ATL

Purport to Parama Koruṇa

-

Atlanta, February 28, 1975



*Prabhupāda: ...pahū dui jana. Pahū means prabhu. The shortcut is pahū. Prabhu, lord, or master. So these prabhu two, two prabhus, Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda Prabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is addressed as Mahāprabhu, Mahā*-puruṣa. And others, they are addressed as prabhu. So these two prabhus, Nityānanda Prabhu and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, are very merciful, parama koruṇa. Parama koruṇa means extremely merciful. Extremely merciful because Kṛṣṇa is also merciful, but because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His original feature... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also Kṛṣṇa, but He is acting as devotee. He is not acting as Kṛṣṇa. He is agting as devotee of Kṛṣṇa.



*namo mahā*-vadānyāya

*kṛṣṇa*-preme-pradāya te

*kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa*-caitanya-

*nāmne (gaura*-tviṣe namaḥ)



*He is Kṛṣṇa, but at present He has assumed the name of Kṛṣṇa*-caitanya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya also appreciated Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He made one hundred verses about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu, just to teach us, He destroyed the ślokas, "Oh, it is too much praising Me." So anyway, some of the ślokas were saved. Two of them are mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So one of the śloka, verse, is

*vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-

śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ

*śrī*-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī

kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye

[Cc. Madhya 6.254]



*Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya is offering his obeisances to Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, speaking like this, that "You are the same original person, Kṛṣṇa. But You have now assumed the form of Kṛṣṇa caitanya just to teach vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam. You have come to teach the mass of people the art of becoming detached to this material world.'' Vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya. Rāgya means attachment and virāga means detachment. So we fallen souls, conditioned souls, we are very much attached to this material body, and consequently, material world. This is the disease. This is called bhava-roga, or material disease, to become attached to this body. "I am Indian,'' "I am American,'' "I am white,'' "I am black''*-I identify with this body because we are very much attached to this body. But if we study very deeply, "Why I am attached to this body?'' Suppose if there is some danger, immediately warning, just this roof is going to fall down, we shall immediately take care of our own body, not of our Godbrothers. Because we are very much attached to this body. This is the first business, how to save this body. Now, the next question is "Why you are so much anxious to save this body?'' What will be the answer? Can anyone say? Why one is so much attached with this body? The answer is that because I, the real I, I am within this body, therefore I am anxious to save it. Then why you are anxious to save the soul, individual soul? The answer will be that because I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So ultimately we want to love Kṛṣṇa, but because we are in a forgetful platform, then someone is trying to save his body, someone is trying to save his bodily relationship. Therefore in so many ways we are implicated with this material atmosphere.



*So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to teach us how to become detached to this material. That is vairāgya*-vidyā. Vidyā means vairāgya-vidyā. Vidyā does not mean to become more and more attached to this material world. That is not... That is avidyā, illusion, because I will not be able to save this body. This body will change. I will be annihilated. But still, I am very much anxious for this body. This is called illusion or ignorance or avidyā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to teach us vairāgya-vidyā, how to become detached. He personally showed by His life example that... He was very learned scholar in Navadvīpa. His name was Nimāi Paṇḍita, and He was very influential also. He was so influential that simply by His calling, 100,000 people joined Him to show a civil disobedience movement, disobeying the order of the magistrate that "You cannot perform kīrtana." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu organized immediately about one lakh of people and went to perform at the house of the magistrate. The civil disobedience movement, perhaps you know that it was inaugurated by Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi, in India against the British government. But long, long before, five hundred years before, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He started this civil disobedience movement against the order of Kazi. So He was so popular. My point is that not only He was a very learned scholar... He was young man, twenty, twenty-two years, but He was so popular that He could call 100,000 people at once to start this civil disobedience. The social position...

*He was beautiful, Gaurasundara. His another name is Gaurasundara, very beautiful boy. And a very learned scholar, Nimāi Paṇḍita. Nobody could defeat Him. And very influential and born of a very high*-grade brāhmaṇa family. His father, His grandfather, was very, very learned scholars. So in every way He was very well situated, although the brāhmaṇas are not very rich. They do not care for money. They are interested in knowledge, brahma-jñāna. And if one knows Brahman, then he is brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Absolute Truth." That is brahma-jñāna. The human life is meant for that purpose, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Everyone should be interested to enquire about Brahman, the Absolute Truth. At least, a class of man must be there in the society. That is the brain, brain of the society, brāhmaṇa. Just like you have got the brain in your body. If the brain is absent, if the brain is gone mad, then your whole body is useless. That is the position at the present moment. There is no brain in the society. All śūdras, no brāhmaṇas. Because nobody is interested with the Absolute Truth.

Everyone is interested how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. That is going on, nationwide, worldwide. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is interested to make a section of the people brāhmaṇa, brain. They can guide. It is not that everyone requires; *neither it is possible. Unless one is very intelligent, he cannot become brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means the most intellectual class of the society. That is brāhmaṇa. Satya śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣa ārjavaḥ, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma*-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. These are the brāhmaṇa's qualification. He must be truthful, so much so truthful that even to his enemy he will not keep any secret. That is called truthfulness. And śamaḥ. Śamaḥ means controlling the senses. Damaḥ. Śamaḥ means controlling the mind. Mind is our enemy; mind is our friend. So if we can control the mind, the mind can act as very good friend. And if we do not control the mind, then he acts as enemy. Therefore the yoga system means controlling the mind, controlling the senses so they can act as my friend. Otherwise they will act as my enemy. Kāma krodha lobha moha.

*So there is necessity of a class of men who will act as the brain of the society. That is called brāhmaṇa. That is real human society, where there are four classes of men: one acting as brain, one acting as arms or armies or protection, one acting as belly, or the food digesting machine... Unless you eat and digest food, how your body will be maintained? So everything is very scientifically designed in the Vedic civilization. So in the Kali*-yuga there is scarcity of brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa is vairāgya. A brāhmaṇa is not interested with pounds, shilling, pence, "Get money and enjoy." That is not brāhmaṇa's business. What us enjoyment? That is illusion. You cannot enjoy because you are conditioned by the stringent laws of nature, and where is enjoyment? There is no enjoyment. But they are thinking, "I am enjoying." This is called illusion, māyā. There cannot be any enjoyment. When you are not free, when you are conditioned under the stringent laws of... You do not like to die. You are forced to die. You must die. You cannot say, "No, I will not die." No, that is not possible. So where is your freedom? But we are declaring, "Now we are independent." This is all illusion.



*So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared to save us from all these illusions. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya means living, not dead. If we have no spiritual consciousness, if we have not Kṛṣṇa's consciousness, then we are dead. This, what is this body? This body is dead. Alive or dead, so-called dead, it is already dead because it is matter. But because there is spirit soul, it is moving. The same example: the motor car, what is this? A lump of matter, some iron, some other metals or some rubbers and combination. And so long the driver is there-it is moving*-it is important so long it is moving. And as soon as the movement stops, you throw it away. That is very good experience in your country. So many useless motor cars are heaped together. So similarly, the brāhmaṇa means one must know that who is the driver of this body, brahma-jñāna. So at the present moment nobody knows who is driving this body. So therefore all śūdras, fourth-class men. There is no first-class man. But in the human society there must be four classes of men: first class, second class, third class... Fourth class also required for assisting the higher, third class. Everything is very nicely described in the Bhagavad-gītā, and Bhagavad-gītā was taught by Kṛṣṇa Himself. But people could not follow Him, misunderstood Him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa again came as Kṛṣṇa-caitanya to teach personally the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa.

*Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not teach anything else than what was taught by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya said, vairāgya*-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam śikṣārtham, purāṇah puruṣaḥ. That Supreme Personality of Godhead... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogaṁ śikṣārtham ekaḥ purāṇaḥ puruṣaḥ [Cc. Madhya 6.254], śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī: "Now You have assumed the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa-caitanya, but You are Kṛṣṇa.'' That is also..., Rūpa Gosvāmī said. We have to follow the mahājanas, great personality, authorities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We cannot manufacture a way of life. We have to follow the footprints of mahājana, great personalities. That is the way. Here, at the present moment, everyone is speculating. What is the use of speculation? You are imperfect. Your senses are imperfect. Whatever you establish, because you have established by imperfect senses, they are all imperfect. Therefore, that suffering, there is no solution. So speculative method will not help us. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is It is not as He had manufactured something. He is also following. He quoted one verse from the prayers of Lord Brahmā.

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

*(jīvanti) san*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

*sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir

*ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri*-lokyām



*This is a quotation from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in Brahma's prayer to Kṛṣṇa. The purport is that you should give up this bad habit of speculation. Jñāne prayāsam. Prayāsam means endeavor: "I shall get this knowledge by speculating." This is called jñāna-prayāsam, endeavoring uselessly for knowledge. So udapāsya. You give it up. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta. Just become submissive. Don't think yourself that you are very learned. Because if the senses are imperfect, how you can be learned? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. Just like we see every day the sun, these eyes. And what we see? It is just like a disc. Is it a disc? It is fourteen hundred times bigger than this earth. So what is the value of your seeing? You cannot see what is behind the wall. Still, you are proud of seeing-"Can you show me? Can you show me God?" And what power you have got to see? That he does not consider. He thinks, "I have got seeing power." Similarly, you study every sense*-they are all imperfect, blunt. So any knowledge you acquire by gymnastic of the senses-useless. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Not Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, it is the Bhāgavata's teaching and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's the same. So we have to give up this nonsense idea, that "I can attain to the perfect knowledge by speculation, manodharma, by speculation, manodharma, mental gymnastic." This will not help us.

*So jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Just become submissive. And where to submit? You must submit to a perfect person. Otherwise why should you submit? Tad*-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12], samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. So Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa also says,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ

*jñāninaḥ tattva*-darśinaḥ

[Bg. 4.34]



*Tattva*-darśī, one who has seen the things as it is. Go there and from him take the knowledge, not that one who is speculating. This is the process, Vedic process. Therefore it is called śruti. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Śravaṇam means hearing, kīrtanam means glorifying. Of whom? About Viṣṇu, not for anything else. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this point. When He was talking with Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya, Rāmānanda Rāya suggested various methods of self-realization. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not reject them. He said, "Yes, it is also nice, but you go farther above. Go forward still." So in this way, when Rāmānanda Rāya quoted this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya, He said... No, in the beginning He had, eho bāhya, āge kaha: "This process is not very important; it is external. If you know better than this, say." So in this way, after many rejections, when Rāmānanda Rāya came to this version, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not say that it is useless. Eho haya: "Yes, it is nice." Eho haya: "It can be accepted." That is the beginning, that don't try to speculate. Just become humble and meek and hear from the realized soul. Namanta. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Just become submissive. Do not think that you know by everything. That is your illusion, māyā. Because you cannot know everything. You can, you may know something. That is not possible that you know everything.

*So to know everything perfectly you cannot do it simply by speculating or handling your senses, imperfect senses. San*-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. You hear from the realized soul. So Kṛṣṇa, hear from Kṛṣṇa. That is He is perfect. And sthāne sthitāḥ. To hear about Kṛṣṇa, you do not require to change your position. Sthāne sthitāḥ. You are medical man? That's all right. Remain medical man. You are scientist? That's all right. You are lawyer? That's all right. You are fool? That's all right. (laughter) Because everyone is fool, but they are divided by mental concoction that "Here is a fool; *here is a learned.'' Because the learned is also a fool. But by mental concoction, he is recognized as intelligent. Same mental concoction. Dvaite' bhadrābhadra sakali samana. Caitanya*-caritāmṛta kar said that "In the material world, this is good; *and this is bad*-this is all mental speculation.'' Dvaite' bhadrābhadra sakali samana, ei bhāla, ei manda', saba manodharma: "That division, 'This is good; this is bad,' it is mental speculation.'' It has no value. It has no value. So this mental speculation will not help us. And therefore sthāne sthitāḥ. You remain in your position. It doesn't matter, good or bad. The mental speculator's verdict that "This is good; this is bad. This is intelligent; this is fool,'' they are all mental speculation. That will not help.

*So you remain in your position. Either in good or bad, it doesn't matter. But you do one thing. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti*-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You use your ear. That ear is bestowed upon everyone, either fool or learned. So use that ear, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, and hear attentively, and mold your life as you hear from the realized soul. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-mano. One who remains like this, although he is imperfect fool, whatever he may be, he can conquer the ajita. Ajita means God. Nobody can conquer Him, but a devotee who sincerely hears about Him from the realized soul, he can conquer even Ajita, Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. The gopīs were women and not very high class woman, cowherd's men, in the village, not in town, very educated, high society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, no. They all belonged to vaiśya class. And they were woman, not Vedantist, not scholar. But they conquered Kṛṣṇa. Why? And that is this They heard about Kṛṣṇa, and they became lover of Kṛṣṇa. That is required. So that is the real qualification. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was so strict about womanly association. Still, He recommended, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū-vargabhir yā kalpitā: "There is no better type of worshiping Kṛṣṇa than the system which vraja-vadhū, the gopīs, adopted to love Kṛṣṇa. That is the first-class.'' That is the recommendation of Vedic śāstra. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. First-class religion Religion means to understand God. That is the sum and substance.

*The process may be different according to country, men. Just like we worship the Deity in the temple. This is also bhakti. And the Christians go to the church and offers prayer to God. That is also bhakti. That is also bhakti. Nine items of bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda*-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam [SB 7.5.23]. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanam vandanam. Vandanam is offering prayer. So they go to the church or go to the mosque, they offer prayers to the Supreme. That is also bhakti. So there is no question of what type of religion you are following. That doesn't matter. You follow anything, whatever suits you. But the result should be that. You worship with the result. The result is how to love God. That should be the result. If you have come to that platform, how to love God, mad after God, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu...

yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa

cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam

śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ

*govinda*-viraheṇa me



*Govinda-viraheṇa: "Being separated from Govinda, God, my life is vacant." This is required. It doesn't matter whether you follow Christianity or Hinduism or Muslimism. Whether you are feeling vacancy, everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa, without God*-that is the test. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa. Every moment... Because one who is feeling separation from the Lord, he is feeling also, "When I shall see Him?" So this anxiety, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa: "A moment is seeming to Me a millenium, hundreds and millions of years' separation." That is love. If you love somebody and if you... Of course, in the material world, this love is not possible. There is no love in the material world. It is all lust. So love means loving God. That is love. So the Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching this, yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam: "I am feeling one moment as a millenium, being separated from Kṛṣṇa. And the torrents of tears are coming just like torrents of rain.'' And śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam: "And the whole world is seeming to Me vacant,'' govinda-viraheṇa me, "being separated from Govinda.'' This is love. So it doesn't matter what religious system you are following, but the result should be this, that you should be mad after God. That is the test. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro... That is first-class religion, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, to love. Bhakti means love, service, rendering service. Adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaje means beyond the speculation of mind, mental exercise, bodily exercise. Adhokṣaja. Adhakṛta akṣaja jñānam.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught this. And He took sannyāsa. For the benefit of the whole world, He took sannyāsa. He gave up His very opulent position in Navadvīpa, as I have told you, very learned scholar, very beautiful body, very beautiful wife, very affectionate mother, good popularity. There was no scarcity. And He was God Himself. Why there will be any scarcity? There is no question. But in spite of, He took sannyāsa for the benefit of the whole world. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu has come here in Atlanta. So you worship this Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Parama koruṇa, pahū dui jana, They are very, very merciful, and little service will enhance your devotional service to a larger scale.



Thank you very much. (end)